# Heresy



## Famouslastwords (Dec 16, 2010)

This is a thread where you state your unpopular opinion unabashedly and unashamed!

I'll start:

Godiva chocolate is gross.

Eminem's Encore and Relapse were really good!

Burping in public IS funny.

Freddy Got Fingered was worth buying simply for "the backwards man" part.


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## Luv2BNaughty (Dec 16, 2010)

I like Twilight..that's right, I do! Though, only for the romance and in no part because of a sparkling vampire.


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## CarlaSixx (Dec 16, 2010)

I don't find Robert Pattinson attractive whatsoever.

I don't find ripped abs attractive.

I hate Christmas.


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## thatgirl08 (Dec 17, 2010)

I thought this said Hershey at first and I got all excited to talk about chocolate. :/


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## CastingPearls (Dec 17, 2010)

I hate ice cream with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns.


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## CarlaSixx (Dec 17, 2010)

I think mayonaise with anything but a sandwich is disgusting (ie: fries)


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## Famouslastwords (Dec 17, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> I thought this said Hershey at first and I got all excited to talk about chocolate. :/



Well you can counter my claim about Godiva if you want?



CastingPearls said:


> I hate ice cream with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns.



Bitch, you melted my bonbon.



CarlaSixx said:


> I think mayonaise with anything but a sandwich is disgusting (ie: fries)



What about potato salad?


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## thatgirl08 (Dec 17, 2010)

Famouslastwords said:


> Well you can counter my claim about Godiva if you want?



I do love me some Godiva.


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## Still a Skye fan (Dec 17, 2010)

I also think Godiva chocolate is nasty...sorry, just don't care for the stuff.

However, mess with my Hershey's, now that's another story!:happy:


Dennis


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## Still a Skye fan (Dec 17, 2010)

Famouslastwords said:


> Well you can counter my claim about Godiva if you want?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Mayonnaise in potato salad??? ~shudder~

I'm a salad dressing man...mayo is good on turkey sammiches and not much else.

Dennis


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## HayleeRose (Dec 17, 2010)

I just dont like lady Ga Ga's music....(catchy, however, i will admit)

I HATE snow...

Jeans with premade holes annoy me.


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## DearPrudence (Dec 17, 2010)

HayleeRose said:


> Jeans with premade holes annoy me.



Yes. 1000 times yes.

I'm all for women in the workplace and hope to be successful in my career one day, but I really feel like children benefit greatly from having a stay at home mom for a portion of their lives (or dad, for that matter). I know it's really difficult now to raise a family on one income, but I feel blessed that I wasn't a latchkey kid and I hope, if and when I have a family, that I can at least work from home.


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## bmann0413 (Dec 17, 2010)

I don't like Justin Beiber or Twilight or the color pink.

Reality shows and the people who go on them are stupid.


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## CarlaSixx (Dec 17, 2010)

Famouslastwords said:


> What about potato salad?



Omg. Eww. I _haaaaate_ potato salad. Or pretty much anything with potatoes, really. Yeah... even fries aren't that great.



HayleeRose said:


> Jeans with premade holes annoy me.



Definitely agree!



bmann0413 said:


> I don't like Justin Beiber or Twilight or the color pink.
> 
> Reality shows and the people who go on them are stupid.



I shall second all of this, but I will say... the reality shows are pretty entertaining with the kinds of stupids they find!


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## JonesT (Dec 17, 2010)

I don't like koolaid (I know its weird)

I hate overly crowded places

and I hate insecure people who hide it by making fun of other people (Had a couple fights with people like that when I was younger)


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## Famouslastwords (Dec 17, 2010)

JonesT said:


> I
> I hate overly crowded places
> 
> and I hate insecure people who hide it by making fun of other people (Had a couple fights with people like that when I was younger)



This is the heresy thread not a dislikes thread.

I don't think you'll find many people you will like overly crowded places or enjoy insecure people, at least admittedly


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## Famouslastwords (Dec 22, 2010)

If a burp is a compliment to the Chinese chef, then a fart is a compliment to the Mexican chef.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Dec 22, 2010)

I detest television. I will not have one in my house. If I want a reality show, I'll look out the window.


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## Famouslastwords (Dec 22, 2010)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I detest television. I will not have one in my house. If I want a reality show, I'll look out the window.



How do you feel about movies?


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## activistfatgirl (Dec 22, 2010)

ha ha, I bet I can do this.

Christianity is a sham religion keeping a few people and ideas powerful without a deeper reading into the radical teachings of Jesus.

<whew>

I'm with the Doctor. I think TV is making us stupid, though I do stupidly watch it.

Corporations or politicians that benefit from the exploitation of others are far worse than most of the people in our jails.

Too much makeup, especially when it's shimmery or glittery makes one look like they're trying too hard.

Fandom is a waste of talent.

THERE!


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## tonynyc (Dec 24, 2010)

I hate lima beans....


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## LovelyLiz (Dec 24, 2010)

_Toy Story 3_ was good, but not the moving piece of beautiful narrative and cinematic artistry everyone claims. It was fine, but not amazing.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Dec 24, 2010)

Famouslastwords said:


> How do you feel about movies?



Movies are to TV what Ghirardelli chocolate is to those nasty little chocolate novelties that show up around Halloween each year -- the ones that seem to be made out of tile grout. Once in a while a movie can surprise you or make you think. But by and large they're formulaic, predictable, and I'd rather spend the money on something else and make my own popcorn.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Dec 24, 2010)

I don't care who wins the Super Bowl. :blush:


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## CastingPearls (Dec 24, 2010)

Citizen Kane sucks.


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## Jon Blaze (Dec 25, 2010)

Allow me to be a heretic.

I respect Lady Gaga for her exploits. Enough that if I met her I would be respectful and thank her. But her music is overrated. I'm not saying it's bad, but people are saying she's the Madonna of MY age. No. No she is not. lol
That's more because of her fans though. She doesn't have a Kanye ego or anything from what I've seen. 

Katy Perry has ok music, but I have similar sentiments. I think if she wasn't hot, she probably wouldn't get as far. Let me not bring up the sudden change in music type to her current rated R dance pop.

- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRjwTDNEoBs&feature=youtu.be

You want to tell me how the fuck a dunk beat that as a top 10 highlight? Fuck that. Every sports station that underrates and insults Mixed Martial Arts and Kickboxing can slob on my knob. 







If you know MMA, then you know that is absolutely ridiculous.

-Boxing is not better than Kickboxing. Neither is better than the other.

-CILANTRO is good. Stop hatin' on Chinese Parsley. I still don't understand the soap thing? To me it tastes like mint and pepper. 

-There's nothing wrong with Ranch Dressing, but no it does not go well with EVERYTHING. 

-McDonalds is not a good fast food restaurant.

- I understand people being pissy about Happy Holidays vs Merry Christmas, but I know Christians that use it to insult people of other religious groups. If you have a problem with it because you think it's too PC: Whatever, but have some respect for people that celebrate different things this time of year. If you're one of those Christians: You're the reason we're hated. Please go to cave or something. lol


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## CastingPearls (Dec 26, 2010)

Jon Blaze said:


> -CILANTRO is good. Stop hatin' on Chinese Parsley. I still don't understand the soap thing? To me it tastes like mint and pepper.



Re the soap thing. Some people have an enzyme in their saliva that makes cilantro taste like soap. I'm one of those people. I don't hate it. I just don't taste it like you do and yes it does taste like zingy soap.


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## Famouslastwords (Dec 26, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> Re the soap thing. Some people have an enzyme in their saliva that makes cilantro taste like soap. I'm one of those people. I don't hate it. I just don't taste it like you do and yes it does taste like zingy soap.



I was waiting for you to chime in with this because I couldn't remember the word enzyme or what it was called.


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## Christov (Dec 26, 2010)

Cheese is the most disgusting thing on this planet.

You're eating rotten mouldy milk people. Lactation that has ripened to the point of solidification through the magic of *BACTERIA*.


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## Your Plump Princess (Dec 26, 2010)

Ground Round is Mother Effin' Delicious. 
*[Raw ground beef on Rye Bread with a little Garlic Powder.]*


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## Famouslastwords (Dec 26, 2010)

Christov said:


> Cheese is the most disgusting thing on this planet.
> 
> You're eating rotten mouldy milk people. Lactation that has ripened to the point of solidification through the magic of *BACTERIA*.




Tastes so delicious too.


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## Famouslastwords (Dec 26, 2010)

Your Plump Princess said:


> Ground Round is Mother Effin' Delicious.
> *[Raw ground beef on Rye Bread with a little Garlic Powder.]*



WHAT!!! HERESY! HERESY! BURN THE WITCH!


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## Famouslastwords (Dec 26, 2010)

Oh my bad I got my replies mixed up to Christov and YPP. Or did I?

Gross on raw ground beef. And cheese is delicious.


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## Your Plump Princess (Dec 26, 2010)

LOL It's a family tradition thing, I thought it was gross too, until my dad made me try some one year. Ever since, I've been hooked. But not too much, because then the stomach is all 'WTF?! ' and shanks you from the inside. 

:happy: Also, Cheese IS Delicious. :wubu: I'm addicted to it, to be honest. Both me and my dad have been known to by large bricks of cheese, as our "Nibbling" Cheese, that usually lasts ..maybe a day and a half, to two days? :doh: Damn tasty moldy dairy.


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## Tanuki (Dec 26, 2010)

Final Fantasy VII was ok... 

Final Fantasy VIII was amazing!


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## Famouslastwords (Dec 27, 2010)

Tanuki Kimberly said:


> Final Fantasy VII was ok...
> 
> Final Fantasy VIII was amazing!



Final Fantasy X was even better. That's true heresy. and I mean it tooo XD.


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## Jon Blaze (Dec 27, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> Re the soap thing. Some people have an enzyme in their saliva that makes cilantro taste like soap. I'm one of those people. I don't hate it. I just don't taste it like you do and yes it does taste like zingy soap.



Thanks for the information.


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## CastingPearls (Dec 27, 2010)

Jon Blaze said:


> Thanks for the information.


my pleasure!


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## Tanuki (Dec 27, 2010)

Famouslastwords said:


> Final Fantasy X was even better. That's true heresy. and I mean it tooo XD.



X and VIII are tied for me, hehe love em~!


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## rellis10 (Dec 27, 2010)

I don't think The Godfather is THAT good.

I like cold rice pudding, cold custard and cold toast.

Sarcasm isn't the lowest form of whit, it's actually quite...erm....whitty 

Religion is pointless....what's wrong with making up your own beliefs?


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## Dr. Feelgood (Dec 27, 2010)

Christov said:


> Cheese is the most disgusting thing on this planet.
> 
> You're eating rotten mouldy milk people. Lactation that has ripened to the point of solidification through the magic of *BACTERIA*.



Cheese is milk's leap towards immortality.
-- H. L. Mencken


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## SSBBW Katerina (Dec 27, 2010)

If this stuff is mixed into or sprinkled onto any baked good or candy bay, it instantly becomes 'Katerina Repellent'.

Don't want me swiping ur tummy yummies? Put coconut flakes on/ in it.

But I like Pina Coladas, but not getting caught in the rain.


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## CleverBomb (Dec 27, 2010)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Cheese is milk's leap towards immortality.
> -- H. L. Mencken


Cheese is milk's leap into space.
-Elon Musk

-Rusty
(The top secret payload of the Dragon 9 rocket test-flown earlier this month was a wheel of Le Brouère from France. I've mentioned this previously, with a link to the same article.)


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## Dromond (Dec 28, 2010)

The Beatles weren't that good.

Hershey's is the worst tasting chocolate on the planet.

Sports events are a waste of time.

Watching speeding cars going around and around an oval track for hours is just silly.


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## Jon Blaze (Dec 28, 2010)

Dromond said:


> The Beatles weren't that good.
> 
> Hershey's is the worst tasting chocolate on the planet.
> 
> ...











I can get down with that. That is all. lol


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## Famouslastwords (Dec 29, 2010)

Dromond said:


> The Beatles weren't that good.
> 
> Hershey's is the worst tasting chocolate on the planet.
> 
> ...



I agree with you on two counts.


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## Your Plump Princess (Dec 29, 2010)

Beer is Disgusting.

Country Music Sucks. 

Politically Incorrect is 90% of the time_ hilarious. _

Oh, most of all? 

_Lemon Juice sucked straight from a lemon is the greatest thing on earth._


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## Famouslastwords (Dec 29, 2010)

Your Plump Princess said:


> *Beer is Disgusting.*



QFT FTW...........


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## Vespertine (Dec 29, 2010)

Dromond said:


> The Beatles weren't that good.



I couldn't think of a good heresy for this thread, so I'm stealing yours. 



Your Plump Princess said:


> _Lemon Juice sucked straight from a lemon is the greatest thing on earth._



OMG so true. This is heresy?? Maybe we just have scurvy.


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## Oirish (Dec 29, 2010)

activistfatgirl said:


> ha ha, I bet I can do this.
> 
> Christianity is a sham religion keeping a few people and ideas powerful without a deeper reading into the radical teachings of Jesus.
> 
> ...




DITTO!!!! I think I'm in love 

So for my own two bits...
Star Wars Episode 1 was regrettably the BEST of the three new horrors despite Jar Jar.
Ralph Nader should be President of the United States.
Neither frogs legs nor rabbit taste at all like chicken (they're better).
A Dutch oven will always be a classic prank. 
Anyone who is a party-line voter is a fool.
Corn is a bigger threat to America than Al Qaida.
Jameson is the foulest whiskey this side of Old Crow. It's Irish southern comfort, I swear. They cover up how harsh it is by making it sweet and I've no clue why it's so popular when tons of other Irish whiskeys are available for equal or lesser value. 
Ren & Stimpy completely warped my brain as a child.


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## Dromond (Dec 29, 2010)

Your Plump Princess said:


> Beer is Disgusting.



Agreed.



Your Plump Princess said:


> Country Music Sucks.



Preach it, sister!



Your Plump Princess said:


> Politically Incorrect is 90% of the time_ hilarious. _



Definitely.



Your Plump Princess said:


> _Lemon Juice sucked straight from a lemon is the greatest thing on earth._



I... can't support this.


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## HottiMegan (Dec 29, 2010)

Dromond said:


> The Beatles weren't that good.
> 
> Hershey's is the worst tasting chocolate on the planet.
> 
> ...



Sports events are also a complete waste of money! (hubby's family went to a 49er game last year and parking was like $50!!) So they had hubby drive them and pick them up.


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## HottiMegan (Dec 29, 2010)

I too think beer is disgusting unless it has root in it. 

I think putting makeup on daily is a waste of time. 

I don't like peanut butter in anything other than a sandwich or ants on a log. It's gross in baked goods.


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## HayleeRose (Dec 30, 2010)

I dont like fruit in my salads.

I love it when guys wear ugg like boots. (see jason segal in "I love you man")

Possums are adorable.


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## Christov (Dec 30, 2010)

Apple products are generally just totems of social status.


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## cinnamitch (Dec 30, 2010)

Bob Dylan- in no way, shape or form can you call what he does singing
Uggs- Fitting name
Sci Fi- How grown people can sit through this amazes me
Hummus- ground up grass would taste better, same with pesto


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## CastingPearls (Dec 30, 2010)

cinnamitch said:


> Bob Dylan- in no way, shape or form can you call what he does singing



THIS this---a thousand times this.


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## Famouslastwords (Dec 30, 2010)

cinnamitch said:


> *Bob Dylan- in no way, shape or form can you call what he does singing
> Uggs- Fitting name*
> Sci Fi- How grown people can sit through this amazes me
> *Hummus- ground up grass would taste better,* same with pesto



Agreed with the bolded part, lol @ the underlined part and omg at you not liking pesto (even though I knew that already )


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## cinnamitch (Dec 30, 2010)

Famouslastwords said:


> Agreed with the bolded part, lol @ the underlined part and omg at you not liking pesto (even though I knew that already )



Truthfully, I am not a fan of most Italian food unless it is the cream sauce based dishes. I find they get a bit too heavy handed with the oregano, basil and tomato sauce. Even with pizza i get very light sauce. Yet i adore tomatoes. Go figure


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## CastingPearls (Dec 30, 2010)

cinnamitch said:


> Truthfully, I am not a fan of most Italian food unless it is the cream sauce based dishes. I find they get a bit too heavy handed with the oregano, basil and tomato sauce. Even with pizza i get very light sauce. Yet i adore tomatoes. Go figure


Funny--I love tomatoes in any form EXCEPT hot sliced tomatoes like on a tuna melt...well I hate hot tuna too but that's another thread. LOL


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## mossystate (Dec 30, 2010)

Nutella is just OK. ( maybe I need the right combo of whatever with it )

British accents do not always = intelligence, or, humor. 

Goatees - mostly a bad idea.

Whole cloves of garlic in a beautiful piece of meat...wrong, so, wrong.

Kevin Spacey is not a very good actor.

Lemon on vegetables - the practice should be banned.


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## cinnamitch (Dec 30, 2010)

mossystate said:


> Nutella is just OK. ( maybe I need the right combo of whatever with it )
> 
> British accents do not always = intelligence, or, humor.
> 
> ...



_nods in agreement_


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## imfree (Dec 30, 2010)

activistfatgirl said:


> ha ha, I bet I can do this.
> 
> *Christianity is a sham religion keeping a few people and ideas powerful without a deeper reading into the radical teachings of Jesus.*
> 
> ...



Wouldn't surprise me if JC himself agreed with that.


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 30, 2010)

Watchmen is the greatest comic ever written.
the film adaption was pretty damn good, too.


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 30, 2010)

CarlaSixx said:


> I hate Christmas.



i love you


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## rellis10 (Dec 30, 2010)

I like Genesis...WITH Phil Collins!


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## Micara (Dec 30, 2010)

I'm apparently the only person who hated the movie *Black Swan*. Or really just thought it was overrated. But the fact that everyone is raving about it makes me dislike it even more.


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## CastingPearls (Dec 30, 2010)

There's Something About Mary was not funny.

Ben Stiller is NOT funny and Cameron Diaz--Beautiful? REALLY??


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 30, 2010)

Famouslastwords said:


> Final Fantasy X was even better. That's true heresy. and I mean it tooo XD.



Final Fantasy IX was better VII, VIII, *AND* X.

furthermore, Final Fantasy VI is *THE* best JRPG ever made.


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## littlefairywren (Dec 30, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> There's Something About Mary was not funny.
> 
> Ben Stiller is NOT funny and Cameron Diaz--Beautiful? REALLY??



You are 100% correct!




The word awesome is overused....so it's not so awesome!

Summer sucks!


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## Dr. Feelgood (Dec 30, 2010)

disconnectedsmile said:


> Watchmen is the greatest comic ever written.
> the film adaption was pretty damn good, too.



I suppose it IS heresy to call _Watchmen_ a comic; the English professors insist on 'graphic novel'.

To call it the greatest comic/graphic novel ever written is, however, standard orthodoxy. And on this point I am a heretic. After years of listening to assorted friends wax orgasmic over _Watchmen_, I finally read it. Well, started to read it: I only got through about twenty pages. I thought it was a tedious, sentimental, overly-drawn-out soap opera. Dorothy Parker said it better than I ever could: "This is not a book to be put down lightly. It should be thrown with great force."

Mind you, I'm not knocking your enthusiasm for it; I'm just saying tastes differ, and I thought _Watchmen_ was a total loss.


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## Christov (Dec 30, 2010)

Anchorman sucks shit.


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## CastingPearls (Dec 30, 2010)

Elf underwhelmed me. Sorry, I don't get the appeal and Will Ferrell plays the same character over and over again.

I think we need a hearsay thread about movies alone.


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## tonynyc (Dec 30, 2010)

"Batman and Robin" directed by Joel Schumacher - worst adaption of the Batman movie ever


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## Famouslastwords (Dec 31, 2010)

disconnectedsmile said:


> Final Fantasy IX was better VII, VIII, *AND* X.
> 
> furthermore, Final Fantasy VI is *THE* best JRPG ever made.



IX? That little monkey thing? GTFO


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## Famouslastwords (Dec 31, 2010)

tonynyc said:


> "Batman and Robin" directed by Joel Schumacher - worst adaption of the Batman movie ever



This is the heresy thread, that's actually a pretty popular opinion among movie critics.


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## Dromond (Dec 31, 2010)

The majority of Batman fans would rather forget that movie was ever made.


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## UnknownSpirit01 (Dec 31, 2010)

-I can't stand Mac laptops.
-I can't stand hip-hop/pop/rap music these days, I think they all are sounding the same now.
-I like old school hip-hop and rap, though.
-College football is so much better to watch then the NFL.
-I still do not know how in the hell the Kardashians got their own show by doing nothing.
-MTV sucks now.
-I love apple juice.


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 31, 2010)

Famouslastwords said:


> IX? That little monkey thing? GTFO



NO U 
long live Vivi!


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## Famouslastwords (Dec 31, 2010)

disconnectedsmile said:


> NO U
> long live Vivi!



No joke. I thought Zidane was a girl. I really did. I even gave him a girl's name.


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## disconnectedsmile (Jan 1, 2011)

Famouslastwords said:


> No joke. I thought Zidane was a girl. I really did. I even gave him a girl's name.



you could say that about most Square Enix characters, really.


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## willowmoon (Jan 2, 2011)

Famouslastwords said:


> No joke. I thought Zidane was a girl. I really did. I even gave him a girl's name.





disconnectedsmile said:


> you could say that about most Square Enix characters, really.



Yup. They're all pretty. 

Now if only Square Enix could make decent games -- like back in the day when Squaresoft and Enix were their own separate entities ..... <sigh>


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## CastingPearls (Jan 2, 2011)

I like Keanu Reeves and it's not just cos he's so easy on the eyes.


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## FA_wro (Jan 2, 2011)

Christov said:


> Cheese is the most disgusting thing on this planet.
> 
> You're eating rotten mouldy milk people. Lactation that has ripened to the point of solidification through the magic of *BACTERIA*.


No shit.

Mind you in the USA it's kinda hard to buy real cheese. 90% of what's on the market is a processed, pasteurized, cheese-like product. That was always my biggest peeve in the states, impossible to find good cheese.


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## CastingPearls (Jan 2, 2011)

FA_wro said:


> No shit.
> 
> Mind you in the USA it's kinda hard to buy real cheese. 90% of what's on the market is a processed, pasteurized, cheese-like product. That was always my biggest peeve in the states, impossible to find good cheese.


No--not really. It depends on where you look. I buy fresh mozzarella every morning that was made only a few hours before.

I live in an area where there are dozens of dairy farms (and one llama ranch) within a stone's throw. Cheese, and good cheese at that, is ridiculously easy to find.


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## FA_wro (Jan 2, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> No--not really. It depends on where you look. I buy fresh mozzarella every morning that was made only a few hours before.
> 
> I live in an area where there are dozens of dairy farms (and one llama ranch) within a stone's throw. Cheese, and good cheese at that, is ridiculously easy to find.



I'm sure that there are places where you can find it but in general it is a fact that raw milk cheese in the USA is severely restricted if not banned outright. Also I found the choice rather limited, compared to most European grocery stores.


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## Oirish (Jan 2, 2011)

Dromond said:


> The majority of Batman fans would rather forget that movie was ever made.



As shitty as "Batman & Robin" was I would still say "Batman Forever" was worse. Both were horrible for most of the exact same reasons but "Batman Forever" used really crappy cameras by those days' standards so it pulls ahead (or behind?) in my opinion. And it was basically a long Taco Bell commercial. Boo.


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## OneWickedAngel (Jan 2, 2011)

I can't stand marzipan. That mess feels like sand paper on my tongue half the time and tastes like sweetened sawdust the rest.


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## jjx560 (Jan 2, 2011)

Titanic was a terrible movie, hours of them attempting to escape the ship, yawn, I could have cared less if they lived or died by that point. 

ANY type of Goat cheese is the most vile and wretched filth man has yet to imbibe. (wine drinkers will get this one more, everybody says it's good with this or that wine, BS it is always terrible!)

Soccer, in any form, is just boring to watch, sorry. 

The entire E!, Soap and Bravo networks (except for Kathy Griffin and Top Chef) could dissapear tomorrow and the world would be a better place. 

Diet Pepsi/Coke tastes better than any sugared soda (except Dr. Pepper, which rules!).


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## CastingPearls (Jan 2, 2011)

Europeans who visit the US briefly (or better yet, only know the US through TV or film) and decide we, our stuff and our culture sucks and/or is woefully inadequate, can stay home. We don't need your money or your opinion.


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## DitzyBrunette (Jan 2, 2011)

I would rather have my eyes gouged out with a rusty spoon than EVER sit through one more second of Inception, Casablanca or Scarface (the last being one I attempted today - HATED IT).


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## HayleeRose (Jan 3, 2011)

Johnny depp and Brad Pitt are not handsome at all.

Johnny depp was cute, however, in cry baby and 21 jump street, but not in recent years.


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Jan 4, 2011)

First off, my heretical observations:


The intentional gaining of weight above a certain threshold--defined for me as a decrease in the quality of life--especially for purposes of pleasing a mate, is an inherently self-destructive activity.
I think cankles are not something to be seen as an element of attractiveness.
I do believe that for many people, weight loss surgery is a useful and life-saving procedure.
I loved the film Armageddon much more than I did Casablanca, The English Patient, or Titanic.
As others have observed, I intensely dislike beer, NASCAR, professional sports and any and all reality TV shows.
I do not find Ben Stiller funny at all; he is the apotheosis of boredom. I completely missed the boat on him and whatever monkey's paw he rubbed to keep himself involved in so many comedic properties. This is not to say I'm anti-Semitic or discriminatory, but any comedian who revels in their ethnicity, culture or handicap as the core foundation of their humor bores me very quickly. Yes, I get that your mother was an obsessive _yenta_ or your dad gave you Robitussin for everything and your cerebral palsy makes you sound funny when you tell jokes about how CP helps you dance better, but I just don't find it humorous. I lack certain frames of reference for this, so this is not to say you're inherently unfunny, just not funny to ME.
And some responses



Christov said:


> Cheese is the most disgusting thing on this planet.
> 
> You're eating rotten mouldy milk people. Lactation that has ripened to the point of solidification through the magic of *BACTERIA*.


 Well, it's a matter of bacteria, fungal growth and time. I eat undeveloped chicken embryos for breakfast, which some might find a bit horrifying.



Dr. Feelgood said:


> I suppose it IS heresy to call _Watchmen_ a comic; the English professors insist on 'graphic novel'.



I agree with you to an extent. The problem with Watchmen is that it is VERY dated. If you read it when it first came out, right on the heels of the 1980s, it seemed better, only because the modern evolution of comics as actual literature was just coming into its own; before then they were kitschy, poorly-drawn and written kid fictions. While Alan Moore did take it to a new level, I too get tired of everyone slobbering all over his pagan knob because he brought new life to the medium.

I will also say that Jackie Earl Haley's portrayal of Rorschach was the only good thing in that movie; the man was born to play that role.


----------



## LovelyLiz (Jan 4, 2011)

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> First off, my heretical observations:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In terms of your first three, I would say that the vast majority of the world agrees with you, so calling them heresy is an unbelievable stretch. Even in this community, I bet more people agree with you than not, on all three of those counts. 

But, what's the point of mentioning the second? Heaven forbid people with cankles are able to realize that some people actually do find those an attractive bodily attribute. Better remind them that not everyone does. WTF man, seriously.


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## mossystate (Jan 4, 2011)

And we are talking about a body part that simply exists, and most of the time not due to some intentional weight gain plan ( but...whatever ). So the people who have them should know they possess something grotesque? Simply...exist...like men who are fast losing their hair.


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## Gingembre (Jan 4, 2011)

I had a feeling cankle-gate was going to flair up again...


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## imfree (Jan 4, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> In terms of your first three, I would say that the vast majority of the world agrees with you, so calling them heresy is an unbelievable stretch. Even in this community, I bet more people agree with you than not, on all three of those counts.
> 
> But, what's the point of mentioning the second? Heaven forbid people with cankles are able to realize that some people actually do find those an attractive bodily attribute. Better remind them that not everyone does. WTF man, seriously.



I dunno, to me, it seems that declaring those three statements to be either truth or heresy is kinna' jugemental. Individuals' results may vary on any of those.


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Jan 4, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> In terms of your first three, I would say that the vast majority of the world agrees with you, so calling them heresy is an unbelievable stretch. Even in this community, I bet more people agree with you than not, on all three of those counts.
> 
> But, what's the point of mentioning the second? Heaven forbid people with cankles are able to realize that some people actually do find those an attractive bodily attribute. Better remind them that not everyone does. WTF man, seriously.



My perspective implied heresy as it was interpreted by Dimensions members, with "heresy" meaning a belief or attitude that goes against established dogma. Based on my involvement and viewing of various threads, arguments against weight gain, weight-related illnesses as fetishes and weight loss surgery are heavily contested on here, in some cases disagreement with them is anathema depending on the board.

My goal was not to resurrect 'canklegate,' only to voice an opinion. Your reaction to my comment merely reinforces my earlier statement above.


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## disconnectedsmile (Jan 4, 2011)

obviously i'm a heretic, because i think cankles are cute.


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## LovelyLiz (Jan 4, 2011)

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> My perspective implied heresy as it was interpreted by Dimensions members, with "heresy" meaning a belief or attitude that goes against established dogma. Based on my involvement and viewing of various threads, arguments against weight gain, weight-related illnesses as fetishes and weight loss surgery are heavily contested on here, in some cases disagreement with them is anathema depending on the board.
> 
> My goal was not to resurrect 'canklegate,' only to voice an opinion. Your reaction to my comment merely reinforces my earlier statement above.



My reaction was to question your motivation in stating an opinion that could be hurtful to many members of this community. There are tons of statements you could make that go against "established dogma" as you call it, why choose one that could make some people feel bad about their bodies? Just seems messed up. I'm not arguing for the merits or demerits of cankles, just seems rude to feel the need to state that particular opinion.

Sorry for the derailment - I've said my piece, and won't respond further.


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## penguin (Jan 4, 2011)

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> [*]I do not find Ben Stiller funny at all;



I can't stand him or his father at all. And on that note, I don't find Seinfeld to be all that funny. It has it's moments, sure, but overall, it's just bleh.


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Jan 4, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> My reaction was to question your motivation in stating an opinion that could be hurtful to many members of this community. There are tons of statements you could make that go against "established dogma" as you call it, why choose one that could make some people feel bad about their bodies? Just seems messed up. I'm not arguing for the merits or demerits of cankles, just seems rude to feel the need to state that particular opinion.
> 
> Sorry for the derailment - I've said my piece, and won't respond further.



Just as my statement about intentional gaining may seem hurtful. I apparently touched a nerve with the cankle comment, which was not directed against any specific member of Dims, only the fact that the debate was so intense it resulted in t-shirts. *T-shirts*, like it's some sort of Alice's Restaurant Entire Massacre Movement or something. 

I've had a family member deal with severe and life-threatening issues around lymphadema, so I never saw it as something to be fetishized or seen as an aspect of attractiveness. There are many aspects of ssbbw members that can be commented on positively without any mention of those which can be emotionally and physically stressful.

If a mod wants to amend my comment in the OP as one person suggested to simply say "I don't like cankles," I'm fine with that. I didn't mean to drop a bomb.


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## mossystate (Jan 4, 2011)

DUDE.

How about you think of them as huge breasts...wait, I guess you would then have to think about how those huge breasts can and do cause a lot of actual physical pain to many of the women who have them. You want to parcel out the bodies of ssbbw and determine what parts are OK to find attractive..and what are not? What parts would absolutely cause physical and emotional distress...and which would not? DUDE.

If some women wanted to wear those *T-shirts*, maybe it's because they wanted to do less of the fetishisizing that you seem to believe was the drive behind the shirts...and more of the standing up for their very real bodies that they live in.

I don't think you did mean to drop the bomb. You are a ' smart ' guy who can't learn some basic shit.


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## Your Plump Princess (Jan 4, 2011)

..Taco bell really isn't all that delicious.


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## HottiMegan (Jan 4, 2011)

I like having spider webs in my home. Spiders are interesting to watch. Some might think it looks dirty but i like them.. (it's on my mind cuz i just dewebbed the place since we're having guests soonishly)


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Jan 4, 2011)

mossystate said:


> DUDE.
> 
> How about you think of them as huge breasts...wait, I guess you would then have to think about how those huge breasts can and do cause a lot of actual physical pain to many of the women who have them. You want to parcel out the bodies of ssbbw and determine what parts are OK to find attractive..and what are not? What parts would absolutely cause physical and emotional distress...and which would not? DUDE.
> 
> ...



LADY.

I know how much physical pain breasts can cause, how pockets of sweat and oil can cause staph infections or fungal growth or the tissue weight can cause shoulder grooves or herniated discs, much as apron fat or belly rolls have their own undesirable issues. I am aware of the social and sexual stigma around those aspects of female bodies as well as anyone (without actually being female).

Not all bbws have large breasts, and I also know that breasts do not always grow in proportion to a woman's weight, just as all ssbbws do not get cankles, hypertension or sleep apnea. It is quite possible, through the luck of lifestyle and genetics to be 450 lbs. and not have any weight-related problems. Getting a breast reduction to control the pain and social stigma is also a surgical relief to the issue. Controlling lymphadema is more difficult, and is often maintained through compression therapies and (with obesity) weight loss/management. Many women thin or obese can develop macromastia. Lymphadema is usually much rarer, caused my morbid obesity, lymphatic disorders, old age and cancer.

Again, this is all just my _opinion_, based on what *I* prefer, which I was under the impression had to do with the point of the thread, which was itself a loaded gun to begin with. Since when did my particular opinion about "acceptable" weight characteristics become anyone's standard here? I may fetishize large breasts but wouldn't do so to the point where I would want a woman to get 1000 cc implants or eschew surgical reduction if it was necessary. To point the finger at someone for their judgment call towards a certain personal aesthetic preference when this site is ALL about glorifying a certain range of aesthetics is a bit hypocritical. 

This thread was all about stating what we individually saw as heretical. A few of my comments just happened to deal with aspects of this site, and due to poor wording and insensitivity on my part, I get shot with the Torquemada gun. If I knew those comments were going to be subject to the _Sturm und Drang_ of Dimensions, I would never have mentioned them.

And I know quite enough "basic shit," thankyouverymuch, some of which has to do with the hypocrisy of this thread to begin with. I just realize now that anything I say which may be remotely offensive to a subpopulation of a subpopulation should come with a disclaimer.


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## mossystate (Jan 4, 2011)

" I think cankles are not something to be seen as an element of attractiveness. "

Alfred is calling.
-----

I don't have a cell phone, so I don't text.


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Jan 4, 2011)

Alfred said Master Bruce wanted me to point out the *I* in that sentence, which is not equivalent to "everyone". When I become the fashion and lifestyle editor of Lane Bryant and say that in a website article, then you can call me on it.

I assume if I had replaced "cankles" with "big ears" or "man hands" I would not be getting dunked in so much Haterade. I just happened to use one of the patented Dimensions Trigger Words(tm), which includes "elbow dimples," "apron fat," "fupa" and "steatopygia". 

Let me just fix it before I dig the hole unnecessarily deeper: _*I am sorry if I offended anyone with my remarks*_. 



mossystate said:


> " I think cankles are not something to be seen as an element of attractiveness. "
> 
> Alfred is calling.
> -----
> ...


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## mossystate (Jan 4, 2011)

" are not something to be seen... " implies more than lack of a personal liking of a part/piece/hunk.......yes, I am actually explaining this....lol...Merry Christmas!...haterade and trigger words... screams sincerity....Snackbar, say goodnight

...


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Jan 4, 2011)

mossystate said:


> " are not something to be seen... " implies more than lack of a personal liking of a part/piece/hunk.......yes, I am actually explaining this....lol...Merry Christmas!...haterade and trigger words... screams sincerity....Snackbar, say goodnight
> 
> ...



And you're fully within your right to disagree with me (FB "Tool" comments aside). I shouldn't have to explain that.

You have been fined 40 credits for violation of the Ellipsis Overuse and Stream-of-Consciousness Drivel Statutes.


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## mossystate (Jan 4, 2011)

Hey, I am not changing that diaper.

...

---------

Cheesecake is good but not beyond belief or compare.


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## Dromond (Jan 4, 2011)

HottiMegan said:


> I like having spider webs in my home. Spiders are interesting to watch. Some might think it looks dirty but i like them.. (it's on my mind cuz i just dewebbed the place since we're having guests soonishly)



I agree with you about spiders. They keep the other critters in check, so they get a pass.


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## joswitch (Jan 4, 2011)

Christov said:


> Cheese is the most disgusting thing on this planet.
> 
> You're eating rotten mouldy milk people. Lactation that has ripened to the point of solidification through the magic of *BACTERIA*.



Let's not forget FUNGI involved too - the rind on Brie and the blue in most blue cheeses for instance. Om nom nom!


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## joswitch (Jan 4, 2011)

Ok, a couple of mine:

Marmite is very tasty. When the pot runs low, sometimes I scoop the last with my finger.

I really believe that sincerely loving, fulfilling polyamorous relationships are possible. This belief is verrrrrry unpopular.

I'd rather live in a somewhat dangerous place, if that was the price (or necessary prerequisite) of being somewhere full of life and lust and music, than live somewhere safe where all that was mostly missing.


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## DitzyBrunette (Jan 4, 2011)

Your Plump Princess said:


> ..Taco bell really isn't all that delicious.



 Blasphemy! :eat2::eat1:


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jan 4, 2011)

Christov said:


> Cheese is the most disgusting thing on this planet.
> 
> You're eating rotten mouldy milk people. Lactation that has ripened to the point of solidification through the magic of *BACTERIA*.



I have been reliably informed that the particular bacterium producing the distinct aroma and flavor of Limburger cheese is the same bacterium responsible for human body odor. How do you suppose it gets into the cheese?


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## Dromond (Jan 4, 2011)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I have been reliably informed that the particular bacterium producing the distinct aroma and flavor of Limburger cheese is the same bacterium responsible for human body odor. How do you suppose it gets into the cheese?



That would explain why Limburger is so malodorous.


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## Jon Blaze (Jan 20, 2011)

Minus the MMA and the occasional good movie: Spike TV fucking sucks.


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## Scorsese86 (Jan 20, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> I hate ice cream with the white hot intensity of a thousand suns.



THIS! I agree so much! Frozen milk sucks!



CastingPearls said:


> Citizen Kane sucks.



THIS! I disagree! I love that film. And almost everything Orson Welles has ever done.


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## Scorsese86 (Jan 20, 2011)

_Avatar_ is bad! It's a remake of _FernGully_ and _Dances with Wolves_, as written by Al Gore, starring the smurfs.

_Boxing Helena_ is the funniest movie. Ever!

Sports is overrated. Why people spend so much time and energy on sports, I will never understand.

Oprah Winfrey -- I just don't like her.

Megan Fox is the least attractive woman I know about.

George W. Bush was a great president. Ok, maybe not great, but I like him.

Bill O'Reilly is great.

I can't stand Whitney Houston and her yelling.

Twitter, and global warming, is overrated.


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## Christov (Jan 20, 2011)

Scorsese86 said:


> Global warming, is overrated.


But don't you know it puts Norway's Moose population in jeopardy?

Oh please, won't anybody think of the humble Moose?


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## Dromond (Jan 20, 2011)

Christov said:


> But don't you know it puts Norway's Moose population in jeopardy?
> 
> Oh please, won't anybody think of the humble Moose?



I rarely think of moose. Now mousse, I think about a lot. Especially chocolate.


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## Christov (Jan 20, 2011)

Dromond said:


> I rarely think of moose. Now mousse, I think about a lot. Especially chocolate.


Now imagining you eating a Moose made of chocolate.


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## Scorsese86 (Jan 20, 2011)

Christov said:


> But don't you know it puts Norway's Moose population in jeopardy?
> 
> Oh please, won't anybody think of the humble Moose?



Think about the Moose?
No. My family has a history of killing Moose. They eat up the garden. Most of the Moose killers in my family are women and socialists for some reason.


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## Paquito (Jan 20, 2011)

1. Star Wars is fucking boring.

2. I love The Jersey Shore.

3. _Seinfeld_ is also fucking boring.

4. I liked "Batman and Robin."

5. I also like Halle Berry's "Catwoman."


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## cinnamitch (Jan 20, 2011)

Scorsese86 said:


> Think about the Moose?
> No. My family has a history of killing Moose. They eat up the garden. Most of the Moose killers in my family are women and socialists for some reason.


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## Dromond (Jan 20, 2011)

Paquito said:


> 1. Star Wars is fucking boring.



That depends on which movie you're talking about. The prequel trilogy sucked hard.



Paquito said:


> 2. I love The Jersey Shore.



Never seen it. No opinion.



Paquito said:


> 3. _Seinfeld_ is also fucking boring.



Yes, yes it was.



Paquito said:


> 4. I liked "Batman and Robin."



Oh, no you didn't.



Paquito said:


> 5. I also like Halle Berry's "Catwoman."



It's Halle Berry in a catsuit. Ignore the bad dialog and acting and enjoy the eye candy.


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## mossystate (Jan 20, 2011)

professional wrestling is beyond tacky

same for most french manicures

raw broccoli is just wrong


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## Dromond (Jan 20, 2011)

Christov said:


> Now imagining you eating a Moose made of chocolate.



It would take a while to finish, but I'd do it.


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## Christov (Jan 20, 2011)

Paquito said:


> 3. _Seinfeld_ is also fucking boring.


"You don't like Seinfeld.

He doesn't like Seinfeld guys.

He doesn't like Seinfeld?

He does not.

Seriously?

He doesn't like it.

Oh man. He doesn't like Seinfeld? Oh man, ohhh man.

Nope. Not even a little."

Repeat forever.


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## WVMountainrear (Jan 20, 2011)

Taylor Swift is a HORRIBLE singer. Hearing her sing live is physically painful not only for my ears but the entirety of my head. Her songs themselves, however, are quite good. I always see her on award shows and say to myself that if she had stringy hair and acne she would be nothing more than a songwriter but because she's fucking gorgeous, the powers that be allow her to try to sing. It's not cute. I think she's a great songwriter, but without the magic of the studio recording, she's one of the worst singers I've ever heard.


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## Paquito (Jan 20, 2011)

I'm not impressed by Elvis Presley.


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## LalaCity (Jan 20, 2011)

Coffee is disgusting.

It's basically dirt-flavored water. For which people pay $4.00 a cup.


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## CastingPearls (Jan 20, 2011)

Paquito said:


> I'm not impressed by Elvis Presley.


I'm with you on this one.


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## WVMountainrear (Jan 20, 2011)

LalaCity said:


> Coffee is disgusting.
> 
> It's basically dirt-flavored water. For which people pay $4.00 a cup.



AGREED. I hate even more that coffee has slowly made its way into other things like chocolate, ice cream, granola/cereal bars. It's awful.


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## Dromond (Jan 20, 2011)

LalaCity said:


> Coffee is disgusting.
> 
> It's basically dirt-flavored water. For which people pay $4.00 a cup.



People pay $4 a cup for all the fancy toppings and sweeteners to disguise the dirt flavor of coffee. The coffee itself is worth about 50 cents.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jan 20, 2011)

LalaCity said:


> Coffee is disgusting.
> 
> It's basically dirt-flavored water. For which people pay $4.00 a cup.



Only at Starbucks (aka Fourbucks). Starbucks is evidence that some people have too much money.


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## disconnectedsmile (Jan 21, 2011)

7-11 coffee is amazing


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## CastingPearls (Jan 21, 2011)

disconnectedsmile said:


> 7-11 coffee is amazing


Agreed. Also here we have Qwik Cheks and Turkey Hill and theirs is always fresh which is key because coffee breaks down and gets bitter after 20 minutes (former coffee dist. expert)


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## Bananaspills (Jan 21, 2011)

Cadbury's chocolate is sickeningly sweet and I don't understand how it became the #1 brand in this country. I'll actually NOt eat chocolate rather than eat Cadbury's, and that says a lot!

I don't mind children watching television (appropriate videos and dvds, not whatever is on, but I'll let my kids watch things like Sesame street and old Disney videos for muuuch longer than the socially acceptable 30 mins-1 hr a day.)

I hate the taste of almost all alcoholic drinks. Also, they make me sleepy. I just don't get the appeal!

High heels are uncomfortable and I refuse to wear them.


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## snuffy2000 (Jan 21, 2011)

1. I don't like chocolate.

2. I believe Snookie's purpose is to remind me that my life isn't that bad.

3. I've never seen Star Wars/Lord of the Rings, nor want to.

4. The music they play on the radio is atrocious, I respect true musicians.

5. Lady GaGa is just a sober Amy Winehouse.

6. Truly scary movies are a lost art. Screamer moments only do so much, there's a fine line between being surprised, and being scared. (I'm looking at you, Paranormal Activity.)

/end rant.


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## CastingPearls (Jan 21, 2011)

Miracle Whip sucks.

Just because you're a picky eater doesn't mean you have good taste. It means you're fussy.


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## mossystate (Jan 21, 2011)

Miracle Whip and Cool Whip should duel at sunrise...neither surviving.


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## Famouslastwords (Jan 21, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> Miracle Whip sucks.
> 
> *Just because you're a picky eater doesn't mean you have good taste. It means you're fussy.*



I actually have a damn good palate. I just refuse to eat some crap.



mossystate said:


> Miracle Whip and Cool Whip should duel at sunrise...neither surviving.



oh bite me!


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## mossystate (Jan 21, 2011)

Famouslastwords said:


> oh bite me!




I'd rather Whip you.


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## Famouslastwords (Jan 21, 2011)

mossystate said:


> I'd rather Whip you.



Oh I know you would, you kinky girl.


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## snuffy2000 (Jan 21, 2011)

Heresy and sexual acts go hand in hand.


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## Famouslastwords (Jan 21, 2011)

snuffy2000 said:


> Heresy and sexual acts go hand in hand.



Shall I.........shave you.......now.......or later?


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## snuffy2000 (Jan 21, 2011)

Famouslastwords said:


> Shall I.........shave you.......now.......or later?



Whenever you want the favor returned.


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## Famouslastwords (Jan 21, 2011)

Oh sweet, I'll shave your legs now if your shave my legs now too.


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## snuffy2000 (Jan 21, 2011)

Famouslastwords said:


> Oh sweet, I'll shave your legs now if your shave my legs now too.



I gotta say....I'll look pretty damn awesome in my new short shorts.


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## disconnectedsmile (Jan 21, 2011)

Marvel comics suck ass. everything about them.
the actual comics, the movies, the glaring disregard for continuity, everything.

sure, they were big shit in the 90s, but now they just suck suck suck suck.
i blame Joe Queseda.


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## Famouslastwords (Jan 21, 2011)

snuffy2000 said:


> I gotta say....I'll look pretty damn awesome in my new short shorts.



Ok now about that face....how can you shave my face if I don't have any hairs there?


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## snuffy2000 (Jan 21, 2011)

Famouslastwords said:


> Ok now about that face....how can you shave my face if I don't have any hairs there?



I guess I just get a free treatment when it comes to that. Or we have an IOU system.


----------



## Famouslastwords (Jan 21, 2011)

snuffy2000 said:


> I guess I just get a free treatment when it comes to that. Or we have an IOU system.



How about I let you shave my legs and you let me shave your face! Seems fair to me! 


*snicker*


----------



## Dromond (Jan 21, 2011)

disconnectedsmile said:


> Marvel comics suck ass. everything about them.
> the actual comics, the movies, the glaring disregard for continuity, everything.
> 
> sure, they were big shit in the 90s, but now they just suck suck suck suck.
> i blame Joe Queseda.



This isn't heresy, this is truth.


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## Christov (Jan 21, 2011)

disconnectedsmile said:


> Marvel comics suck ass. everything about them.
> the actual comics, the movies, the glaring disregard for continuity, everything.
> 
> sure, they were big shit in the 90s, but now they just suck suck suck suck.
> i blame Joe Queseda.


Marvel sucked all through the 90s too.


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## Dromond (Jan 21, 2011)

Christov said:


> Marvel sucked all through the 90s too.



Well, yes. It did. I was a Marvel zombie during the 80s, but made the jump to the DC imprint during Crisis on Infinite Earth's. As Marvel got progressively more craptastic, I dropped all the Marvel titles except for Squadron Supreme.

I started buying comic books when they cost 40 cents a piece. I feel old now.


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## furious styles (Jan 21, 2011)

i enjoy sports. playing them, and watching some of them too.


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Jan 21, 2011)

disconnectedsmile said:


> Marvel comics suck ass. everything about them.
> the actual comics, the movies, the glaring disregard for continuity, everything.
> 
> sure, they were big shit in the 90s, but now they just suck suck suck suck.
> i blame Joe Queseda.



And I sit here, looking at a $3,500 comic book collection that I can't give away right now, and 2 years worth of Spider-Man that make used toilet paper look like a lost Picasso.

It is not good when a nerd's hobbies continue to let him down by turning into foul-smelling shite.


----------

