# Dimensions BBW/FA Chatroom Decline



## starrbbw (Apr 2, 2006)

Anyone else notice the gradual decline in attendance in the regular chatroom. That place used to be chock full of regular chatters and a variety of new and old not so regular chatters on any given day. It was a great place to stop in and vent about your life, share recipes, share embarrassing or funny stories or drool over other chatters who were cute and fun to talk to. We could joke about things in there knowing that it was a 'safe' place to joke about certain things pertaining to being fat. 

Lately the numbers are pitiful. It leads me to wonder, why the sudden disinterest in that particular room. One thing comes to mind for me. Perhaps it's the way it is now monitored. I don't see anything wrong with having rules to follow in a chatroom. In fact I believe in structure and attempting to weed out inappropriate behavior with setting the rules in writing. However, when said rules change or are suddenly being enforced where as they were not enforced so thoroughly previously I think the chatters should have been warned that this change had taken place either with a message as you enter the chatroom as we've had for sad messages in the past or via email. Instead we have constant occurances of OPs who strike out at the chatters PUBLICLY for not following the rules. When we question the change in the way things are done, we're only chastised further instead of being notified respectfully of the changes. 

There is an inconsistency with when and which rules are enforced as well. This is no different than the real world. I don't think it would be appropriate for Officers of the Law to let one person go through a red light and not stop them but another goes through that perhaps they don't like the look of or maybe they're in a bad mood at the moment and they pounce on them. Things need to be consistent in order to be successful in any situation. 

Unfortunately the bbw/fa room seemed to work better when it was a more relaxed environment. I used to feel that the OPs were allies and that we were on the same team. That they were there to protect us from trolls and fat discrimination that we face in our daily life far too much already. Lately I feel that we are on opposite teams. It's a shame it has come to this. 

I truly hope this new way of dealing with the chatters doesn't become the downfall of the dimensions chatrooms. I would miss the many wonderful friends and people that I have come to know through my daily visits to the site.


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## Emma (Apr 2, 2006)

The feeder/feedee is busier now. Which is great because I don't like the other room. Way too cliquey and bitchy for moi.


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## ataraxia (Apr 2, 2006)

I think the new board software makes the boards more attractive, and many chatters spend their time in here now instead.

(If it's really moderated as badly as you say, that would certainly have something to do with it, sure.)


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## Missy9579 (Apr 2, 2006)

I absolutly agree with what Star has to say. I myself have said it often before, both in emails to the Ops and on the board as well.

The chat room used to be a place of fun and constant chitter chatter, about so many things, Now it seems many people are affraid to talk , not knowing what rule will be made up that day, changed, or enforced.

It seems that none of the Ops are consistant, and favoritism, or dislike surely seems to play a huge role in who is repremanded for what. And often times if you ask if something is allowed, you will get the answer, "depends on the Op" Some Ops allow stuff, and some dont. Such as , butt crack to show, the word "effin"(spelled as that), pictures of children not of your own blood, the list could go on, but it is impossible for us chatters to remember who allows what and who will you boot you for such things.

I think alot of the chatters, especially myself, WANT to follow the rules, but just find it impossible to keep up with the ever changing, not written, never stated, depends on the Ops mood, rules.

And when trying to ask questions, or figure out what is right or wrong, again as Jen said, we are just made to feel even smaller. Told thats it, the way it is, suck it up or leave, to "zip my mouth", and even other pretty rude statements. Instead of being told what we did wrong in PM, the Op blurts it out and chastizes us often in the room, even though the rules say this is not what Ops should do.


Its very hard to be respectful, to someone who does not show you any respect. While I realize that we should be, and I am sure am, grateful for the chat room, but maybe the dwindling numbers are a sign, of how impossible it has become to chat in there. Maybe realizing, that I am not the only one who feels this way, or notices the discrepency about the Ops enforcing the rules, will show someone, that it really does happen, and that it is NOT fair to the chatters.

And as Jen associated it, try to imagine this unfairness in real life situations. Your boss sends you home for wearing a red shirt, when several co workers yesterday wore red shirts, and when you ask why, you are told, just because, its a newly made up rule today. and then 3 days later, a co worker comes in wearing a red shirt again! and nothing is said to that person. It may make you feel like you are being singled out, or picked on. And thats an awful feeling. When you feel like that, or when you feel like someone is abusing their authority.


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## MWBBWFanMan (Apr 2, 2006)

CurvyEm said:


> The feeder/feedee is busier now. Which is great because I don't like the other room. Way too cliquey and bitchy for moi.



I have really enjoyed the chatrooms and hope they continue to be popular. The feedee/deeder room does seem to have more people in it than the other room...Is there a difference in how moderaters monitor things from room to room? or is it the same standard? Perhaps having a no rules room might end up being the most popular place...Enter at your own discretion...I hate to see a good person booted from a room...There will always be losers and trolls, but when someone has a bad day and lashes out at someone and gets booted it makes me wonder too. THere will always be double standards for people based on whatever....Thats part of life. It may not be fair, but thats how it is....What happens when someone gets banned? Is there a process to decide if its good to ban them or does it just happen at someones discretion? We as chatters dont really have any input into this as we do not own the boards....THe owner/moderaters get to make decisions based on what they want. If you dont like the rules go someplace else.... I think thats totally fair. Having a set of rules posted will likely never work. People will do as they wish. I just know there are a couple really quility people that got banned for things that really dont seem like bannable things to me...I also admit that I dont know the whole story as i wasnt there when the bannage happened.

Its nice to have the chatroom and I have made some good friends/acquaintences in there. I hate to think of a time where the rooms are not there and being used. The other chat areas I have been too seem to be all about selling sex in some form or another...Thats not the reason I go to chat. I go to participate and unwind. Being surrounded by so many lovely women in the same place is another part of what makes it fun for me....

Being a moderater is also a pain in the ass at times too Im guessing. THink about it...A moderater can have a bad day too and make quick decisions based on their own mood. Were all adults here for the most part...I like to believe that anyways...Grow up everyone and treat otheres the way that you would like to be treated...Its not that damm tough.

Just my 2 cents....
Bill


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## AnnMarie (Apr 2, 2006)

Someone is reprimanding people for using "effin"????  


My feeling was always... it's an adult room. If someone doesn't like the language or the topic, they are free to leave and return later... as long as there was no rude/abusive language or behavior toward other chatters. I've left that room on many occasions when the topics were just too "Yahoo!" for lack of a better term, or just too fat negative (chicks who can't stand being fat and think it's disgusting that someone would dare wear a bathing suit, or "If I could have one wish, I'd wake up a size 8".... I have no tolerance for that, especially not in *that* chat.)

Anyway, I can't comment on the goings-on as I rarely even pop my head in anymore. I left for many reasons... and it doesn't sound (from you, Starr, and many others who've mentioned it) that much has changed. 

I far prefer the boards - in tone and topic.


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## SoVerySoft (Apr 2, 2006)

Altho I am not a chat regular (and haven't been for years), I did pop in now and then with some regularity. But since the new forums, I never even think to go into chat.

That was, until I read this thread. So I am hanging out in there tonite. 

Thanks for reminding me!


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## JerseyBigBoy (Apr 2, 2006)

starrbbw said:


> Anyone else notice the gradual decline in attendance in the regular chatroom. That place used to be chock full of regular chatters and a variety of new and old not so regular chatters on any given day. It was a great place to stop in and vent about your life, share recipes, share embarrassing or funny stories or drool over other chatters who were cute and fun to talk to. We could joke about things in there knowing that it was a 'safe' place to joke about certain things pertaining to being fat.
> 
> Lately the numbers are pitiful. It leads me to wonder, why the sudden disinterest in that particular room. One thing comes to mind for me. Perhaps it's the way it is now monitored. I don't see anything wrong with having rules to follow in a chatroom. In fact I believe in structure and attempting to weed out inappropriate behavior with setting the rules in writing. However, when said rules change or are suddenly being enforced where as they were not enforced so thoroughly previously I think the chatters should have been warned that this change had taken place either with a message as you enter the chatroom as we've had for sad messages in the past or via email. Instead we have constant occurances of OPs who strike out at the chatters PUBLICLY for not following the rules. When we question the change in the way things are done, we're only chastised further instead of being notified respectfully of the changes.
> 
> ...



Maybe this entire site is WAY TOO CLIQUEY and needs a good purging.


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## BigBawdyDame (Apr 2, 2006)

Personally, I haven't been in the chatroom enough lately to have witnessed the new and/or ever changing rules. However, I have noticed that the fa/bbw room is very cliquiesih. That's one reason I stopped chatting as often as I did. I had one chatter get a bee in her bonnet regarding me and she starting making my time chatting miserable. And, she was able to effect how other people viewed me, since I was not part of their 'group'. I'm too old for those kind of high school antics. It made me really evaluate how I spent what little free time I have in my life.


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## Sweet Tooth (Apr 2, 2006)

JerseyBigBoy said:


> Maybe this entire site is WAY TOO CLIQUEY and needs a good purging.



The irony being that me, Jen, and our friends [including my husband] have been the ones accused by some of being The Clique.  

Different times of day, different people. The power in the mix is amazing, but then I always noticed that with students, too. One student can throw the whole bunch into turmoil on a given day. Weird how that works.


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## Sweet Tooth (Apr 2, 2006)

BigBawdyDame said:


> Personally, I haven't been in the chatroom enough lately to have witnessed the new and/or ever changing rules. However, I have noticed that the fa/bbw room is very cliquiesih. That's one reason I stopped chatting as often as I did. I had one chatter get a bee in her bonnet regarding me and she starting making my time chatting miserable. And, she was able to effect how other people viewed me, since I was not part of their 'group'. I'm too old for those kind of high school antics. It made me really evaluate how I spent what little free time I have in my life.



But BBD! You're part of our clique! No one should dare mess with you, hon. Give me names!


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## AnnMarie (Apr 3, 2006)

I've found through much of my life that often the people who throw around the "clique" claim are simply having trouble breaking the ice with new people, not that those people are excluding them for some reason - as clique would lead you to believe.

*Not *saying that about anyone here in particular, just that it's been the case in my experience that they found it easier to throw up that line than to figure out why those people have become friends and see what they can bring to the table.


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## Fuzzy (Apr 3, 2006)

Actually, It has been my experience, and with that.. maybe too much experience.. maybe I need a new life.. something fishy's going on around here...

But I degress. Anyway, Every online chat board has a cycle, its gets really popular, it loses popularity, it gets it back again, or it ceases to exist.

More often than not, Every board gets the occasional annoying hack that makes the environment unpleasant, and drives people away. It could be a sysop, but most of the time, its an annoying prat that doesn't take no for an answer.

Bottom line, you (and all of you) are the ones that can make or break a chat room. It takes dedication, perseverence, spell check, and a sense of humor.

Share and Enjoy!


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## Eowyn (Apr 3, 2006)

I am a chat room op, with the third longest seniority of any (Elrond and Galadriel exceed me). Tonight I took time to lurk for three hours in the chat rooms, just to see what was going on. 

What follows are just my perceptions, but I offer them "for what its worth"

I frankly did not see the clique behavior or uneven moderation being complained of. in this thread At one point we had 98 chatters on line simultaneously - over 70 in the BBW/FA chat and the rest in the Feeder/feedee chat. This is near record level (but Sunday is traditionally the heaviest day). The main room was moving very swiftly as you can imagine, but there was no fighting or quarreling in either venue. 

This doesn't mean that everything is always perfect. New chatters sometimes aren't welcomed as openly as they might be - everyone has experience with trolls and so there is a certain reserve. I've also observed that some people are excessively shy. And at times some chatters try to "push the envelope" and is so doing invite correction. But tonight was a good night, and I am happy to be able to say that.

Can the rooms be more friendly? I'm sure they can. When I'm in op mode I try to PM newcomers with suggestions and answer their questions. I've been thanked for that. Perhaps there should be actual chat orientation meetings for new chatters (its been suggested) to teach rules, profile completion, icons and room technology. But I honestly think that the present environment isn't as bad as some seem to feel.


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## mossystate (Apr 3, 2006)

Thanks for bringing this to the forums,Starr.The other day I witnessed an Op chastise a chatter,then a short time later the same Op came in under their normal chatter name and was making snarky comments,directed at the chastised chatter(thinly veiled comments).
As others have stated, rules most certainly are needed.I for one am glad that really explicit pictures(well,there are 'explicit' pictures, just not of a sexual nature) are not allowed on the sidebar.Some rules make Dims a bit different, in some ways.But like all chatsites they are made up of people.There are 'cliques', but that happens when people start choosing those they enjoy,nothing really 'wrong' with that.
I have witnessed the favoritism and on one hand I laugh because it seems like a shabby sort of power trip,but I also know that it makes for some people being made to feel very uncomfortable.If there are rules, then does not seem like the best idea for Ops to say.."depends on the Ops"..when it comes to what is allowed 
Dims can be a very fun place to chat.There will always be bumps in the road, but let's hope that the people who make the chatrooms what they are...the chatters...are heard...:bow:


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## Emma (Apr 3, 2006)

I think what needs to be done now is the ops and conrad need to have a meeting to decide what should be a rule and what isn't. Then these rules need to be clearly posted including what will happen to a person who breaks each one. Then they need to be enforced at a constant level. Then no one here can complain and the mods will know what they are doing.


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## 1300 Class (Apr 3, 2006)

Thats a very excellent proposal.


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## prickly (Apr 3, 2006)

........the day we could no longer say "fuck". hehe


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## 1300 Class (Apr 3, 2006)

Got, what a blow to liberity and freedom the day we have to show some decorum.


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## NancyGirl74 (Apr 3, 2006)

Starr, I'm glad you brought this up. 

I too have noticed that cliques but as an adult I also realize that friends just tend to do that, they group together and share more together. As someone who is not (I don't think I am anyway) part of a regular clique I have never really thought about it enough to be offended. But then I've never been dismissed or ignored by anyone either. I've always had very pleasant experiences in chat. 

I haven't been to chat regularly in a while because I have discovered the boards and enjoy reading them, adding my points of view, and what not. However, the boards are equally "cliquish" and can be a bit "bitchy" too. Heck, we're human. Being bitchy or opinionated (I like that term better  ) is nothing new to human existence.

As much as I like and enjoy the boards I miss chatting. Lately the numbers in BBW/FA chat have been so low it doesn't seem worth it to go in. I have noticed the large numbers in the Feeder/Feedee room but as I am not a feeder or a feedee I don't feel I should be there. Not that I think I would be unwelcome, it's just that I don't want to give a false impression of myself. 

As for the Ops I haven't noticed them being more strict lately. In fact, I think they were more strict when I first started chatting which was more then a year ago. I remember feeling nervous to say anything for fear of being kicked from the room. I don't have that same fear now. 

Anyway, those are just my personal observations on the issue. I really enjoy the boards and chat so I hope things will smooth out and we can go back to being at ease and open-minded with each other.


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## Tad (Apr 3, 2006)

The original main dimensions room became a wasteland and the feeder room became the place to be. Then the feeder room became barren too and the happening action was at the Bulge chat room. Then people came back to Dimensions as Bulge withered, and the same shift seemed to be happening again, when the new chat rooms openned up.

In short, it is part of a consistent pattern.

I have only anecdotal evidence of why. My best guess is that through one function or another, the main chat room becomes too safe and sanitized, and a lot of people are looking for something with a little more sense of possibilities, so they start checking out the 'feeder' chat--and find out that the people there are actually not so strange after all. Once those people move rooms, the main room becomes even less interesting to newcomers--the ones left are mostly the ones swapping recipes, planning trips, talking about their daily life issues, and not the ones who are all over giving size related support to new arrrivals. So they find a better welcome in the feeder room. Eventually the core group in main gets smaller, so it is hard to reliably find a good chat, and even the remainder there goes to the other room. By which point the once 'feeder' room is also being tamed, and those who want to be able to talk openly about loving being fat and getting fatter, or to get encouragement on eating more to get fatter, go looking for somewhere new again.

Just my take on it.

-Ed


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## bigsexy920 (Apr 3, 2006)

As a person that is in chat pretty often I generally go where the people are. I have noticed that the feeder chat has been busier than it has in the past. 

I have noticed a few things in the Chat. One is that, yes there are groups of people that tend to gravitate toward each other. There are women there that I call my coffee clutch girls and I enjoy them a lot. There are people that never speak openly and are there every day and I enjoy them a lot in that I always wonder what the hell they are doing. It keeps my imagination going. 

There are many strong personalities in chat and to me I think that is what makes it interesting. I don't want to be around people that agree with me all the time, it's boring. I don't want to be around people that criticize me all the time either. 

I remember a time when I first started going to the chat. I would mostly sit in silence and watch the "regulars" talking and laughing and I remember wanting to talk too but never sure what to say and if I did say anything would it be as witty as what they were all saying. There was even a time that I was really disliked among the women there. BUT I kept coming because of the few people that were always nice and welcoming, in particular Joy and Cindy, AKA Saucywench. I'll never forget how nice they were and how that made me feel. 

For those of you who sense the clique I would say that I also felt that way at one point. I kept at it and would make comments here and there and even now I dont talk as much as some others but I try to get involved. 

As for the rules and such, I agree in rules they are needed in most every aspect of life. However, I've seen the people that enforce the rules speak in rude harsh ways at times and I don't really think that is necessary. There is no need to degrade a person because they have something they feel passionate about. I also know it's not easy to be a rule enforcer and I commend you for even taking on the responsibility. I personally wouldn't be able to do it, so for that I say thank you.


I've said this before and I'm sure I will say it again, It all comes down to the understanding, understanding how a new person might feel coming into a new situation. Understanding that your personal views are not always the views of others. Understanding that some people are more out going and more well versed than others. Just plain old understanding, and then actually respecting what it is you are understanding. Words can hurt and Words can heal and in chat, all we have are our words. So we should take care. 

Ok that's it.


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## olivefun (Apr 3, 2006)

I do think that one of the ops has been heavy handed. 
Really, I think it is only one. 

I was in the room recently, for the first time in a long time. A chatter was singled out for allegedly using the "f word". I do not have this word in my regular vocabulary, but really folks, we are adults. The manner that the chatter was embarrassed was so school marm. 

She was booted out and returned bewildered. 

I looked back at the preceding chat, because I didn't remember her saying this* bad word*. I did not see it. 

The op left the room soon after that. 

Shortly later, a chatter who is annoying and comes in under many different accounts/pseudonyms starts PMing me. Is the op there? Nope. 
I look at the HELP section, to see if there is a way to alert an op when they are not visibly in the room. No. 

There are problems to be sure. 

I would rather people remember to_ play nice_ rather than obsessing about a silly word. 

There are cycles. It seems a few people, like me, for example have other things on the priority list are taking requiring attention.


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## Turin (Apr 3, 2006)

Gotta say as an Op, I'm not feeling the love here. We do the best we can with what we have to work with. We are not out to grind axes with anyone. We are not out to impinge on anyone's idea of a good time. We are not Catholic nuns running around looking for knuckles to rap with a ruler.

The rules are constantly changing due to feedback from... you guys.. the chatters. If enough people get offended or request a rule change or have a rule suggestion or room improvement, we get together and try to mull the ramifications of the change and quite possibly implement it. The thing to remember is for everyone who says the rules are too strict; we have someone saying that people are getting away with murder. People who are saying the language rule is silly, are not taking into account the complaints we get from the other side for the provocative language. There is ALWAYS another side. We do the best we can to balance things out. Frankly, it's Conrad's site and he could choose to set the rules per his own personal code of conduct and morals. However, that is not the case. We have meetings and a forum where we discuss current issues and chatter requests. We try very hard to find some sort of acceptable middle ground. It's never going to be one hundred percent to everyone's satisfaction.

Do cliques exist? Of course, they do. There isn't a social situation in the world where humans don't tend to gravitate towards clusters of like minded individuals. Cliques aren't, in and of themselves, a bad thing. What is a bad thing is how people treat each other. We have people, in cliques, who can be nicer to others. By that same token, we have people who have heard about the cliques and make their own prejudgments about those folks. What can newbies do to feel welcome? Join in. There is generally a good floor conversation going on. Jump in, get wet and join the fun. Who knows? You may create your own clique. Remember, everyone was a newbie at some point.

Do the Ops pick on people based on personal likes and dislikes? I will adamantly say no. Frankly, we haven't the time or inclination to grind axes. If someone feels the Ops are picking on them, that person might want to take a look at themselves, their behavior and their actions in the room. Our job, as Ops, is to make the place as acceptable to the largest segment as possible. We treat EVERYONE the same; newbies, old timers, regs, etc. All chatters are subject to the same rules of conduct. Each room is opped with the same rules. You will not get away with something in the feeder room that you wouldnt in the main room and vice versa. That said, we can't catch everything. If you see something that seems to have gone by, PM an Op. Posting rules, even as "questions, or chastising other chatters on the open floor is not cool. In the end, Not everyone is gonna be pleased with us. Not everyone is gonna like how the room is run. Not everyone is gonna like the topics being discussed. It's up to the individual to decide how much time they spend there and what things they want to discuss and how they want to be perceived by others.

Finally, why does the feeder room seem to be getting more attention lately? Haven't a clue. Is it a pendulum thing? Might be. Do we have a sudden influx of feeders/feedees? Might be. Is there a perception that the feeder room is less moderated than the main room? Might be. Is it a "lemming" thing? Are there more there cuz "that's where the action is"? Might be. These are all theories I have seen thrown about. I, personally, have no clue. I don't really care why to be perfectly honest. What I want is to make sure that we are all respectful of each other no matter what room we are in. 


What I am saying is that the chat room is no different than any social situation you will encounter in real life. If you go to a party, a club, a classroom, a job, whatever; all of these same social things are going on. We are the ones tasked with making sure the MOST people are as comfortable as possible. We can only do so much. We also need the support of the chatters and we need the chatters to police themselves in terms of treating people properly. A subtle PM to a friend to say "Hey, you coulda been nicer to that person." is not necessarily a bad thing. Or maybe, throwing out your prejudgments of cliques and joining in and adding a new voice to the room.


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## rainyday (Apr 3, 2006)

I think Fuzzy has it right--chat is what you make it. Moreover, things are very fluid in there. One moment it could be eight chatters and silent, fifteen minutes later it could be forty and jumping. Broach an interesting topic and posts can suddenly be flying so fast you can barely read them.

Being an op seems like a thankless job to me. No way would I want to do it. I believe their lives could be made easier with one change though: When I first began chatting when the room was new the ops operated differently. They did not chat in the room as regulars, but only appeared when a problem occurred, and when it was solved they were off into the mist again. This seemed to work well and the ops were far more respected. They were seen as problem solvers and protectors more than enforcers. When ops chat or post using their op persona, subtle (and not-so-subtle) clues allow their real identites to become apparent. At that point the naturally human personality traits, biases and opinions of the real person become associated with the op and their effectiveness as an op is diluted.


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## mossystate (Apr 3, 2006)

I agree with olive.There is one Op who I really believe enjoys reprimanding chatters in public,and in a very snippy manner.I have witnessed a couple of the other Ops do a FINE job of telling a room that is getting a little out of hand...to cool it.They do this in a calm manner.The Ops who do this, and who are even handed, do not leave a room silent and uncomfortable.
To Turin..I know you say this does not happen,but you would not have so many people feeling it if it were not happening.I know that some people do not have the skills to monitor.If some 'regular' chatters bring their(our) quirks into the room...ummmm..dontcha think Ops will do the same?*G*
As for the language issue,I can let fly with some of the most colorful language known to chatdom,but it does not mean I am a coarse human being.I do not walk down the street, swearing.I understand not wanting the language to get TOO out of hand, but to suggest as some have suggested, that people who use said colorful language are somehow on the outskirts of some civilized chattown..well...kiss my A** To be honest, I would rather see a bit of language than to see pompous behavior disguised as..class.Class is a slippery devil..you either have it...or you don't...there is no way to pretend.
Hell,I think there is one bad Op apple, and at the end of the day it is so silly to let what could be a fine chat experience be ruined because of silly politics.
At the very least, perhaps Ops could be told to not chastise chatters in public,unless it is a general 'heads up' to the whole room.


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## Turin (Apr 3, 2006)

mossystate said:


> To Turin..I know you say this does not happen,but you would not have so many people feeling it if it were not happening.



This is an example of Argumentum ad Populum, just because many people believe it doesnt make it so. We as Ops do NOT have axes to grind. 




mossystate said:


> If some 'regular' chatters bring their(our) quirks into the room...ummmm..dontcha think Ops will do the same?*G*



of course we bring our own quirks.... I happen to be forward and unabashed.. I'm not a soft kumbaya type of guy.... but the point I am making is that we are not out LOOKING for ways to pick on people we don't like.. 



mossystate said:


> As for the language issue,I can let fly with some of the most colorful language known to chatdom,but it does not mean I am a coarse human being.I do not walk down the street, swearing.I understand not wanting the language to get TOO out of hand, but to suggest as some have suggested, that people who use said colorful language are somehow on the outskirts of some civilized chattown..well...kiss my A** To be honest, I would rather see a bit of language than to see pompous behavior disguised as..class.Class is a slippery devil..you either have it...or you don't...there is no way to pretend.



This is a perfect example of the kind of thing alot of people are missing. See there are ALWAYS two sides to the coin. Do we ignore the many people saying the language needs to be cleaned for those who like cursing or see a place for it? For every complaint we get about a rule, we get another complaint that the rule is too lenient. Which side do we make unpleased? This is the tightrope we are straddling.


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## mossystate (Apr 3, 2006)

Turin, I for one would not want to straddle that..no.But I think you have blinders on to the fact that there is favoritism being played out.I know you don't want to see it, but it is there.I do know the difference between favoritism and an Op just doing their job..I am smart like that It is like a bad cop..not all cops should be bashed..but the bad cops should be exposed..that just makes sense.Hopefully the powers that be will just tell all Ops how to be a little more even handed and cool when dealing with people.Like I said, some folks are just lousy managers.I don't think this has to be a huge problem..really...just some tweaking needs to be done.


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 3, 2006)

Turin said:


> This is an example of Argumentum ad Populum, just because many people believe it doesnt make it so. We as Ops do NOT have axes to grind.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Question, is there _ever_ a circumstance that could occur that would cause the ops to reevaluate how they go about things? I mean, what kinds of things beyond what is happening now would have to occur to show the ops that things are going in the wrong direction due to some new policies that have been put in place? To my very untrained eye things are looking pretty grim right now so I'm just wondering.


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## Turin (Apr 3, 2006)

LillyBBBW said:


> Question, is there _ever_ a circumstance that could occur that would cause the ops to reevaluate how they go about things? I mean, what kinds of things beyond what is happening now would have to occur to show the ops that things are going in the wrong direction due to some new policies that have been put in place? To my very untrained eye things are looking pretty grim right now so I'm just wondering.



We reevaluate and question ourselves everyday. We have a forum where we discuss policy and procedures. We don't always agree with other, but we are always respectful of each other.


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## Missy9579 (Apr 3, 2006)

I must say I agree with Mossy. So many of us clearly see that these issues are present. And instead of maybe trying to see it as that, all we are being told, by one person, speaking for many, is that it is not so.

One Op does seem overly harsh is enforcing the rules, and does so in quite a rude manor. Again, i will say, respect is a big issue. And if you give none, you get none. I have admittedly made some mistakes in chat, and when spoken to in private, in a respectful manor, surely, ill change or do whatever to fix it. But when i THINK i am following the rules, and all of a sudden, im being yelled at that im breaking some new rule that was just made up today, and im being told in a not so respectful manor, I get aggravated, and upset. its just simply not fair.

Turin, you yourself was the one the other day who said, in open chat, it depends on the Op if the word "Effin" is allowed. And so many other things...are just like that, Depends on the Op, the mood they are in, and if they like you or not.

I guess the point that me, and several others are trying to make, is if so many chatters seem to be feeling the same way, and having the same problems, maybe the authoritive figures of Dimensions should take a steo back and look at what is really going on. To realize that we arent all making this up, or all crazy. That this really happens, that people are made to feel, small, and disliked by Ops in the chat room. 

Surely i hope that it doesnt seem like Im saying all Ops are bad or unfair, or that there should be no rules. But I think saying that Ops have no grudges against people, or carry no axes, is a wrongful statement. Many of us feel that you guys can, and do. And simply telling us we are wrong, isnt going to solve anything, or make chat a better, more fun place.


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## Turin (Apr 3, 2006)

But that's exactly what I am saying.. this isnt blinders... this isnt wishful thinking.... having talked to the Ops... having been in the middle of the questioning... we DON'T hold grudges.. we DON'T grind axes... And just saying that we do over and over doesnt make it true..it's completely anathema to what we are trying to do... 

If you personally feel you are picked on by the Ops.. then look at the things they are saying. Are they vaild? Are the things that have gotten their attention against the rules? Is there a history of breaking a given rule?

I'm not here to convince you, because clearly that's not going to happen. I will tell you, however, that, unequivocally, the Ops in the rooms do not intentionally go out of their way to pick fights or pick on specific chatters. 

Some of us may be harsher than others. Some of us may not handle things like you or I might handle things. BUT that does not mean we are going after people intentionally. To say different is simply untrue.


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## mossystate (Apr 3, 2006)

Ay Carumba!!..*LOL*..Ok...the obvious is not the obvious...Ok...Ok....*goes back to hitting head against brick wall*:doh: Not one person who is talking about this issue is saying there should be no rules, or that enforcing them is not sometimes a huge pain in the arse.But it is arrogant to suggest that a chatroom Op can never be wrong,or wrong for the job.I guess if an Op says there is nothing negative being done by another Op, then that is the truth...Ok.

Now, I think I will go to the chatroom and find some nice people to talk to..:bow:


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## TraciJo67 (Apr 3, 2006)

Am I the only person here who is morbidly curious as to who this "one bad apple" is? :eat1:


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## fatlane (Apr 3, 2006)

TraciJo67 said:


> Am I the only person here who is morbidly curious as to who this "one bad apple" is? :eat1:



There's a guy who logs on as one_bad_apple_488. Real jerk. Put him on ignore when he shows up.


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## TraciJo67 (Apr 3, 2006)

fatlane said:


> There's a guy who logs on as one_bad_apple_488. Real jerk. Put him on ignore when he shows up.



Now why would I go & do that? Troublemakers fascinate me, in a rather cold & clinical sorta way.


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## fatlane (Apr 3, 2006)

You like... "The Bad Boy"... ?


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## TraciJo67 (Apr 3, 2006)

fatlane said:


> You like... "The Bad Boy"... ?



Well, uh .... yeah! 

But I love "The Boy Scout" that I married


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## Tina (Apr 3, 2006)

Turin said:


> This is a perfect example of the kind of thing alot of people are missing. See there are ALWAYS two sides to the coin. Do we ignore the many people saying the language needs to be cleaned for those who like cursing or see a place for it? For every complaint we get about a rule, we get another complaint that the rule is too lenient. Which side do we make unpleased? This is the tightrope we are straddling.



Why would there be a rule in adult chat about cursing? I don't think *anyone* should be chastised for cursing. I am an adult and If I want to let fly with the f-word in a non-confrontational manner, who is any op to stop me? Personally, I think that any op who kicks someone out for cursing needs to have their Op keys removed. And that someone was kicked out for saying "effin"? Inexcusable, IMO. Ridiculous. What, are the chatters here children?


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 3, 2006)

Alright pottie mouth, settle down now.  

What I'd like to understand is, why have all the chatters jumped ship to the Feeders and Feedees chat? Are there different ops in there or are the rules different in there?


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## ataraxia (Apr 3, 2006)

LillyBBBW said:


> Question, is there _ever_ a circumstance that could occur that would cause the ops to reevaluate how they go about things? I mean, what kinds of things beyond what is happening now would have to occur to show the ops that things are going in the wrong direction due to some new policies that have been put in place? To my very untrained eye things are looking pretty grim right now so I'm just wondering.


I agree. It would be very interesting to see what would happen if all the dissatisfied chatters were to just hang out here instead for a while. Basically, boycott.


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## Tina (Apr 3, 2006)

LillyBBBW said:


> Alright pottie mouth, settle down now.












As has been mentioned, this is kind of cyclical. Way back when I used to chat the jumpin' room was feeder chat. Can't say much feeding was going on in there, though.


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## ThatFatGirl (Apr 3, 2006)

While having rules is a good thing, the omni-present ops are a bit too much for me. It's _just _chat. Must it always feel like you're visiting a police state? I enjoyed the chatroom more the first year or so I visited when things were more not so heavily moderated. It would be nice if ops were only there when there was actually a problem.. and if discussion between adults, occasionally heated and peppered with swear words was not constantly monitored. 

This is $.02 from a former chatroom barfly. I remain ever-grateful for the rooms since I met my boyfriend there a year ago... I know the rooms are what you make them and since they're not so much for me anymore, I do hope others find them enjoyable in their current state. Based on the stats Eowyn posted, sounds like they're doing just fine.


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## starrbbw (Apr 3, 2006)

It is rather interesting to me that it seems some of the moderators don't want to believe that any of them could possibly less than perfect. 

For one, I appreciate Eowyn's effort of observing the chatroom for three hours in order to check out the voiced complaints. However, I don't think it's fair to say that everything seems to be okay in there now based on one night of observation. The issues we have voiced here may have not happened in those three hours but that doesn't prove that it never happens. 

Second, in my opinion I think it's rather arrogant to believe that we (the chatters) should all reflect on our actions and words in the chatroom because it certainly couldn't be that one of the OPs might be in the wrong. I think perhaps you should take a bit of your own advice and do some self-reflection as well. 

My complaint wasn't that the OPs have an ax to grind. My complaint is that the moderating is not consistent from day to day and from OP to OP. I believe that it would be beneficial for Conrad to meet with all the OPs and have the group of you come to a mutual agreement about which rules you're going to enforce and everyone should stick to the same set of rules on a consistent basis. If the OPs feel that inconsistency isn't necessary then at the very least they should be less iron fisted when they all of a sudden decide to enforce a rule that they have at other times ignored. 

As for the language issue...I think many of us would prefer not to hear an overabundance of foul language. However, in today's society many of the words that the OPs are not allowing are no longer even considered foul language. I feel that anything that's okay on television or the radio should be okay to use in an adult chatroom. If there are chatters who are offended by the language, perhaps they should do one of two things, address the issue themselves by asking politely if the language could be a little cleaner or find somewhere else to chat that is more to their liking. I agree that some words should stay off limits but to ban the words ass, shit and some of the other 'softer' foul words seems a little over the top to me. Sorry Prickly, I don't believe your favorite four letter word should be allowed on a regular basis. However if a chatter slips one time and uses a swear word...it would be great since we ARE all adults (even if not all of us act like one) if we didn't have to worry that the almighty OPs will strike down on us for a slip of the tongue. 

Last night in chat I slipped and said the word ass. After the second slip with that word I was warned on the floor by an OP for watching the language. I had difficulty monitoring my use of that word since it hardly seems like a foul word in modern day vocabulary. But, I was fine with the reprimand seeing as I am the one who is shouting for consistency in chat rules. What facsinated me however, is that not long after this occured, Turin used the same swear word and when the other OP joked with him to watch it...he made light of it and just kinda laughed it off. If I'm not mistaken he even joked that it was a type of animal not a swear word. Also, at one time Turin and other OPs have taken issue with the use of a nonsense word in place of a swear word such as 'fricking'. Yet last night he went on and on and on about using the word 'fool' to replace another four letter word. 

My point here is, what makes it okay for an OP to use foul language or 'replacement' language for the swear words but not the regular chatters?


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## Emma (Apr 3, 2006)

yeah and everyone has moved into the feeder/feedee room for some reason. Like the rules don't apply there or something.


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## NancyGirl74 (Apr 3, 2006)

I might be wrong about this but aren't the Ops volunteers? Why would anyone volunteer to do a job that is clearly thankless unless they cared about Dim, chat, and the chatters? Personally I think the Ops are just human like everyone else and should be treated with the respect we are asking them to give us.


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## starrbbw (Apr 3, 2006)

ahhh, but they're not human...they're elvin...are they not? 

I have the utmost respect for them and their dedication to keeping the chatroom a safe and happy environment. I should also clarify that I don't think that ALL of the OPs are causing issues. In fact, I think many of them do a wonderful job there and have always been kind and considerate and even-tempered with everyone in there unless there was a troll who truly deserved some disrespect. 

I am thankful for their assistance in the past in dealing with harrassment that I was on the receiving end of. They did everything in their power to see that I felt comfortable in there and that the guilty party was dealt with. Without them to protect us from these type of chatters time spent in dims wouldn't be the same. 

I do agree with the wish that the OPs would just appear for incidences like that instead of harping on the little things. Perhaps the problem may be that some of the newer OPs are trying too hard to do an outstanding job of moderating and have inadvertantly become the 'gestapo' of chat.


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## Emma (Apr 3, 2006)

Well the feeder/feedee room is full to the brim of peopel from the other room right now and it's doing my head in. Since they won't talk to us if we come in 'their' room...


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## NancyGirl74 (Apr 3, 2006)

> ahhh, but they're not human...they're elvin...are they not?



Oh yeah...I forgot. My bad. lol



CurvyEm said:
 

> Well the feeder/feedee room is full to the brim of peopel from the other room right now and it's doing my head in. Since they won't talk to us if we come in 'their' room...



What's with this "we" "them" stuff? Is it really that cliquey, Em? I'm so sorry you feel that way. That makes me very sad to hear that. I came to this site to get away from that kind of garbage. Knowing that someone feels that way here just bums me out!


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## mossystate (Apr 3, 2006)

NancyGirl74 said:


> I might be wrong about this but aren't the Ops volunteers? Why would anyone volunteer to do a job that is clearly thankless unless they cared about Dim, chat, and the chatters? Personally I think the Ops are just human like everyone else and should be treated with the respect we are asking them to give us.


 Nancy, I think those of us voicing concern are saying that we are not seeing respect from certain Ops.I for one was on the receiving end of a very snotty exchange with an Op, after I uttered one line to an obvious troll.I had seen others be ruthless with trolls, yet my very mild 'I see you troll' had me being treated very rudely by an Op(of course that had nothing to do with the fact that the Op had let their dislike of me be known in the open room...before they became Op... )

I think most of the reprimanding should be done in private, and even then I think it should not be in the form of.."if you don't like it..too bad"..at the very least, this shows a HUGE immaturity.I was in the room when the word ass was joked about by the two Ops in the room at the time, after Starr had been reprimanded.I was going to say something, but I think I knew how well that would go over..*sigh*

This is not about all Ops being bad..not at all!!!

But let's not pretend that all people can handle the job...I think that is just common sense.


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## fatlane (Apr 3, 2006)

Hey, it's not like they're spelling "Chat" with a "K", because that would make it "Khat", an addictive stimulant from the leaves of a bush native to East Africa, and that's a Schedule I controlled substance in the USA and... oh, heck, just ignore me... I was going somewhere with this, but forgot my point... never mind.


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## Fuzzy (Apr 3, 2006)

fatlane said:


> There's a guy who logs on as one_bad_apple_488. Real jerk. Put him on ignore when he shows up.



What I want to know is what happened to the first 487.


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## DarkSol (Apr 3, 2006)

Well, considering I just got banned tonight for trying to tell someone NOT to put words into my mouth. I had no warning in PM from an op or anything... It was simply a kick and then when I rejoined an immediate ban. No warning or anything. I feel that this was unjust and totally uncalled for considering nothing was done to the other party.

If the ops can not even follow the guidelines set by Elrond, then truely the "fun" of the chatroom is gone.


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## Emma (Apr 3, 2006)

wow i didn't realise you were banned. you were in the room one minute debating with the rest of us, no worse and no better, how did that happen?


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## DarkSol (Apr 3, 2006)

CurvyEm said:


> wow i didn't realise you were banned. you were in the room one minute debating with the rest of us, no worse and no better, how did that happen?



Probably more of the fact that I used the "F" word once. However, when another user states that I'm "looking for the WLS room" and says that I am bashing everyone because they are a feeder/feedee (I have nothing against that lifestyle). However what I was saying is that I was more against the abuse of the caps. I don't see people getting warned for abusing the shift key. Come on. If the ops can't follow the rules and guidelines that were set for *all* of us to use...


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## Emma (Apr 3, 2006)

Seriously. They can all *FUCK OFF*, there is no reason for you to be banned. None whatsoever. Everyone was swearing in there. It is unfair for one person to be kicked out without the rest of us *ALL * being kicked out.


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## LarryTheShiveringChipmunk (Apr 3, 2006)

Im not one who really pays much attention to anything..and Ive been sparse lately, but could it just be that its a temporarily decline? things go in cycles right?


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## Angel (Apr 3, 2006)

DarkSol said:


> Well, considering I just got banned tonight for trying to tell someone NOT to put words into my mouth. I had no warning in PM from an op or anything... It was simply a kick and then when I rejoined an immediate ban. No warning or anything. I feel that this was unjust and totally uncalled for considering nothing was done to the other party.
> 
> If the ops can not even follow the guidelines set by Elrond, then truely the "fun" of the chatroom is gone.



This is so WRONG!!!!!


I was there. DarkSol did nothing deserving to be banned. 

Whoever banned him was not visible.


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## LarryTheShiveringChipmunk (Apr 4, 2006)

having read that, i agree. having moderators and all is good to keep things in line. but having abusive ones..well that only begs for more trouble. on my board we had that happen. almost killed the place. well place is deadish anyway cuz of the time of year..but it made some people not want to come back..and when they did theyd just cause a ruckus


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## TraciJo67 (Apr 4, 2006)

Wish I had the luxury of letting something like a chat room Nazi get under my skin. 

Unless the OPs are paid for what they do, how about cutting them some slack? If I were certain that someone had it in for me, and had the authority to cut me off from my leisurely pursuits, I'd make sure that he/she had no reason to ban (or chastise) me. I understand that some people feel these volunteers are abusing their "authorit-ay", but c'mon .... it's a chat room. We're not saving the world. A little perspective?


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## Buffie (Apr 4, 2006)

TraciJo67 said:


> "authorit-ay"




 

Thank you for using one of my all time favorite words.


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## Tina (Apr 4, 2006)

You're right that it's not the end of the world, Traci. And I know that it's hard to moderate, because there will *always* be someone who thinks you are being unfair. But I believe that too much moderation can kill a place and a chatroom is no exception. I know that if that went on I would cease chatting (not that I do these days -- I'm registered, but just seem to have very little time for it).


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## Cinda (Apr 4, 2006)

Now anyone who frequents bbw/fa or even feeder chat knows I spend a great deal of my time in both chats.  I have been known to be here 12 hours a day. So I can tell you that I see alot. 

Yes there is one less than tactful Op. But nobody is perfect and I expect this Op will recognize this fact after all these posts and perhaps be more aware in the future?

Yes there is inconsistency from Op to Op on how stringently they enforce the rules. There is no conflict that I see in the rules themselves, but each Op decides if the situation really warrants getting involved and causing a fuss. Some are more strict than others. I rarely see an Op make a mistake but it happens occasionally. We are, after all, human. 

Yes there has been alot of chastizing going on lately. We chatters had become very free with our language. Now most of our Mommas would be appalled. lol. I thought the language guidelines were Conrad's decision? So we watch our cussing big deal.

I do think, however, that there should be instructions on how to call for Op assistance online someplace. If there are instrutions I never saw them. And an appeals process should be in place with all chatters understanding how to appeal a banning. And if a person is banned I certainly hope they are informed ahead of time for what and for how long. As in the ssbbwlaurauk affair for instance. She thought she was banned forever.

My 2 cents on the feeder/bbw chat crossover is so what! As long as a chatter is respectful of others and not disruptive, who cares where he/she chats and who is a regular of what room. But feeder chat belongs in feeder chat since it has a special room of its own and since it seems to upset any chatters in the general bbw/fa chat. And bbw/fa chatters who object to hearing about weight gain and feeding should stay out of feeder chat. There is no reason why the regulars in feeder chat should feel unable to speak in their own room for fear of some bbw regular throwing a snit.


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## Missy9579 (Apr 4, 2006)

I understand that the Ops do this job on a volunteer basis. BUt just because they do that, doesn't mean that they should get to abuse their power. If a volunteer in a hopsital decided to give a patient medicine and it hurt that person, do we say , well we should forgive because she was just a volunteer. If someone helps your child cross the street, and said child gets hit by a car, is that ok? Because we should cut the volunteer some slack? There are volunteers in all aspects of life, and most have to follow rules. All hospital ones have to follow a strict guidline as to what to and not to do.

And as Jen said...I have been told, even by another OP that they dont agree with what one Op does or says, and that said Op is often unfair. And all we hear is about how Ops can never be wrong. WHen it seems like often times many have seen Ops not following the rules they try to enforce. The other night, someone Pmd me with some feeder stuff, so i tried to send a nice PM back saying i choose not to talk about that, or anything else in PM. There were 4 people in the chat room only, and this persons name was directly under the private to, I thought i clicked it, but appearantly didndt, and the PM posted to the floor. All of a sudden an Op was out of no where sying i cant chastize chatters in the open room and that i will banned if it happens again. There was no warning in PM as the rules state is what should happen, and when i said gosh, i dropped that it wasnt meant for the room, there was no, ok, sorry i harped on your so quickly, and in the open room or anything.

I mean,w e can go on with this thread all day, but it doesnt really matter. We are chatters, they are Ops, and no matter how many of us see them playing favorites, chastizing people in the room, being rude, and seemingly abusing their power, I doubt it will change anything. Yes all us chatters have united and voiced our frustration, most likely nothing will change. We will continue to get the "suck it up or leave" answer, which in a large community like dimensions, I would like to think our oppinions would matter a little more than they do.


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## LisaInNC (Apr 4, 2006)

cant we all just hit a bong....oops get along?:doh:


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## TraciJo67 (Apr 4, 2006)

BigCutieViolet said:


> If a volunteer in a hopsital decided to give a patient medicine and it hurt that person, do we say , well we should forgive because she was just a volunteer. If someone helps your child cross the street, and said child gets hit by a car, is that ok? Because we should cut the volunteer some slack? There are volunteers in all aspects of life, and most have to follow rules. All hospital ones have to follow a strict guidline as to what to and not to do.



Are you really comparing the importance of a chat room monitor to someone who donates his/her time in an effort to make the world a better place? 

I don't chat, and likely will never chat, so I'm not commenting on the accuracy of what you are saying. I'm sure, given the feedback here, that you have a point. I just don't understand the level of importance that you seem to be giving this issue. It seems silly to me. Then again, I don't really need to understand it. 

Hopefully, the offending moderator will take your comments to heart. If not, there are lots of other places to chat, right?


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## gypsy (Apr 4, 2006)

Ok, so, as a person who says "effin"...

I have never been reprimanded for saying effin.

I have respect for ALL the ops in their Op personas. I might not like the chatters behind them, but they are the people who have taken it upon themselves to help US be in a safe chat environment. And for this they get pissed on? It is Conrad's room. What he says goes. PERIOD. The chatrooms are there, free of charge to us, the chatters. So are the boards. We are provided this website to try and support each other in whatever way we can. I think there are people that expect they can do a better job as an Op...yet....I don't see *them* apply for what is, essentially, a thankless job. 

Instead of trying to act the rebel and defy authority, or create the ever-swirling void of drama? Stop chatting for a while. It's as simple as that. Stay away or become part of the solution.

Oh, and, just for the record? I AM NOT AN OP.


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## dragorat (Apr 4, 2006)

So I can understand both sides of the coin.I will say I have seen an Op occassionally get a little heavy handed.I have seen some people in the room intentionally bait an Op when they've commented on something.The blame can not be placed fully on either side.But as an Op personal issues MUST be kept private.Even if there is someone in the room they are not fond of as long as said person is following the rules the Op should leave well enough alone.Also anyone who has a personal problem with an Op should NOT bring it out in chat or badger said Op.All this does is cause problems in the room because it drags in other innocents to choose sides.I also agree there should be more consistancy concerning what specific rules concern.An occassional swear here & there shouldn't be that offensive even to those opposed to it.If something is said in the room chastising someone by another chatter that seems blatant,the Op (In my opinion) should message said party in private that way if it truly was a dropped pm then no action should be taken.On the other side if someone drops a PM that is a rebutal to another chatter they should admit it was dropped & maybe apologize to the room.Inconsistencies & accidents cause more problems than admitting when we're wrong.That goes for chatters & Ops alike.Just my 2 cents worth.If my comments offend anyone I'm sorry but it's how I feel on the subject.


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## mossystate (Apr 4, 2006)

You bet it is a thankless job, for those Ops who have the ability to use common sense..calmness..tact..to take care of a 'situation'...

An amusement park for any Op who comes in to lord their position over some chatters..and rules...(seems a bit silly to get off on it..but perhaps some need to feel 'important')

There are other places to chat..of course..and I would never place a huge amount of importance on any of them(even though Dims is my favorite)..but if the desire to have this site is important,then there is nothing wrong, and everything right in voicing concerns.If some of the 'forum only' people were to be booted..banned..etc, they might at least want to be heard..yes? 

Consistency..that is the key word.I am not 'pissing' on any Op,but I have always had this pesky sense of right and wrong in terms of how people are treated(and before anyone rolls their eyes, yes, I have to check myself at times..*W*)...yes..even in a free chatroom...*S*


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## Elwing (Apr 4, 2006)

April 4, 2006


I am sorry so many feel that we, collectively, have done such a rotten job of trying to keep things under control in the chat rooms. I am sorry that some of those I have had to censor for their behavior feel as if I did it for personal reasons. I am sorry that my fellow Ops, with two exceptions, dont feel its important to comment on this subject and show their support for the Ops as a group. I am very sorry the owner of the room and under whose directives we made our decisions did not respond to any of this as of the writing of this letter. I know that from the first day I was made an Op, I have logged many hours not only watching the room, but researching trolls and assisting chatters. I have given my time and tools to rewriting the rules to make them more in line with the owners vision of the room. I have written other documents, as well, which will probably never see the light of day now. I did ALL of this on my own time, and I volunteered for this.

By volunteering my time, I have been repaid by nasty messages from chatters, been called every name under the sun, had another Op attempt to malign my character and motives. Many chatters who seem to have an axe to grind (I will not say they DO have an axe, as it is not my place to judge their motives, only their behavior) have tried many times to bait me into arguments. However, it is not within my nature to argue, especially over issues which are, in my eyes, cut and dry. Arguing does no one any good. Who is the bigger fool, the fool or the fool who argues with him? However, because I avoided inflammatory statements and stuck to facts, I have been accused of being heavy handed. In the old days, Ops were far more heavy handed but maybe some of us have short memories on the subject. Most of all, my volunteer time has been repaid by a lack of support from those I am supposed to be working with.

However, the definition of a volunteer is you do something without expecting to be repaid. I never did, so a negative repayment makes it even harder to swallow. 

As a business professional, I have to know when its time to walk away from a toxic environment. And the current environment is far too toxic for me. Thank you to the few folks who have supported us, your kind words are appreciated far more than I can communicate. However, to mention names would only lead others to accuse of more favoritism, and I am sure you know who you are. So to those of you who are screaming for my head, here it is. I no longer wish to fight. My Op days are over. And for the record, I didnt give a flying fuck regarding the language anyone used. I was merely following the site owners suggestions about language at our last Op meeting. Also for the record, I was NOT involved in any of the ruckus that took place on the evening of 04/03/2006. I was offline when it all happened.


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## rainyday (Apr 4, 2006)

Well that's a sad development. Thanks for all the hours you gave to chat, Elwing.


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## Erendis (Apr 4, 2006)

While I regret that Elwing felt that the silence of some of the ops was a sign of a lack of support, and also regret that she has chosen to step down from our ranks, my personal silence has mostly been out of exasperation. I did not feel that anything I have to say on these matters, until now, would accomplish anything, and I might have been tempted to say something ugly…so I refrained, and waited hopefully to see if things would die down. Unfortunately, it hasn’t, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Conrad chose to shut down the chat rooms completely, since there doesn’t seem to be an even ground. 

With the wide variety of people who chat in those rooms, there is always going to be someone who thinks it could be done better…someone who is unhappy. It just happens that these particular someones chose to air their complaints in a public forum. 

Yes, there have been changes made recently, because Conrad wasn’t happy with the directions the rooms were headed. When we met to discuss these changes, we knew that some people would balk at them, so the complaints I’ve seen here aren’t unexpected. But it’s like several in this thread have said: chat is what you make it, and you can’t take it too seriously. If you don’t like the way it is, stay away for awhile. If you choose to come back, chances are, it will be different again, as it is an ever-changing animal. 

Yes, opping is a thankless, frustrating job. Someone is always unhappy with a choice made. Ops are human and make mistakes. The biggest frustration is dealing with people who feel they are entitled to something. This is a FREE site, people. You don’t pay to chat there, we don’t get paid to op. Conrad is the one who, from the kindness of his heart, and out of his own pocket, has given us this place, and it is up to him to decide how he wants it. The Ops do the best we can to keep the peace and keep out the trolls, while trying to make it the kind of place Conrad envisions. To come on here with unappreciative grousing, instead of trying to be part of the solution, is pretty unproductive. I'm not sure what was hoped to be accomplished in doing so. As it is, we've lost at least one good Op because of it. As rainy said, that is a very sad and avoidable development. 

A few things to keep in mind: 

As a chatter, you cannot know what goes on behind the scenes. You can’t know what may have transpired before you were in there, or on another day. Sometimes, if an op deals with a person or an issue in a way that may seem harsh to you, it may have to do with the fact that the person or issue being dealt with is a recurring offender/offense...that there is a history involved, and patience is no longer called for. (Patience not being the same as respect) I believe that every Op tries to maintain respect of the chatters, but when one deals with people who repeatedly break known rules, choose to defy rules to *make a point* or constantly find reason to question the rules or op decisions, again, patience can be hard to come by. 

I will say that I, as an op, do not treat each chatter the same. That is not to say that I use personal feelings in my op duties, but that I take into account if a person has a history of rule-breaking, trouble-making, etc. We generally use a three-strikes policy, and if a person is a repeat offender, they don’t get much slack. Also, I will use more patience in dealing with a new person vs. a veteran chatter who should know, in general, what is expected of them. One who can’t use common sense in monitoring their own behavior, who expects the rules to be laid out implicitly, will likely experience some difficulty at some point. 

I will agree that recent rule changes have not been advertised as well as they could have been. We informed the room when they took place, advising people to acquaint themselves with the changes, and felt that word of mouth would suffice, but obviously, that has not worked. However, the links are always available to those who chat there, and everyone should take the time to read them more than once. 

As for the issue with the feeder rooms, those rooms exist to give the feeding crowd a place to feel comfortable. They are asked not to discuss the subject openly in the bbw/fa room, so that those who are not into that lifestyle may feel comfortable chatting there. As it states in the rules, anyone interested in gaining/feeding may politely inquire if anyone would like to join them in one of the other two rooms created for that purpose, but will not be allowed to continue said discussion in the open room. Anyone is free to remain in the bbw/fa room as long as this rule, along with the others, is respected. The same goes in reverse for the feeding rooms. If a person chooses to go into one of those rooms, they should expect to encounter feeding talk. If you don’t want to see it, then don’t go in the rooms, and certainly do NOT make derogatory comments against feeding or gaining. Everyone is required to respect others, regardless of lifestyle choices, period. However, those who frequent the feeding rooms cannot dictate who can or cannot be in them at any given time, as long as there is no disrespect shown. If the population of the rooms is greatly one-sided, with most of the chatters being in one of the feeding rooms, then an op may ask that those not interested in feeding jump to the bbw/fa room. While this is not mandatory, unless there is a problem, it is encouraged. Usually if people go to the room best suited to them and wait a bit, rather than following the crowd, people will start to come over and balance things out. 

That’s all I have to say about that. (for now)

Words for the day: 

Use common sense.
Respect others always, even those you disagree with. 
Prioritize and don’t turn small things into big issues.
Know when to take a step back and look at something from another angle. 
RELAX.


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## MaxArden (Apr 4, 2006)

Happy now?


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## Webmaster (Apr 4, 2006)

Well, the result of all this criticism is that I have now lost three superb moderators all of whom had volunteered their own time to help me with a largely thankless job, one where more often than not it seems impossible to do right, one where you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. No one is perfect, of course, and moderators are only human. When criticizing them, please keep in mind how regular chatters, and perhaps even you yourselves, often go nuclear over truly the slightest thing or perceived injustice.


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## RedHead (Apr 4, 2006)

This is a real tragedy; for everyone!


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## TraciJo67 (Apr 4, 2006)

RedHead said:


> This is a real tragedy; for everyone!



Much as I love ya, Red ... I gotta disagree.

This is about as far from a tragedy as you can get.

It's a whole lotta drama about a whole lotta nothing. 

Adults acting like spoiled children, and acting out. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## mossystate (Apr 4, 2006)

I will speak ONLY for myself, when I say that it is too bad that two other Ops have decided to quit.I am a bright person(really..*G*),I know the difference between kids running to mom and dad over the slightest disagreement, and kids who believe that it would be nice to see some consistency when it comes to rules...that's all..pretty simple..really..*S*I think many of us saw the problem, and it was not with all Ops(no way!!).One day, I was reprimanded by Turin..I did not like exactly the way he did it..BUT..at the end of the day, I knew that going private with a beef with another chatter was an ok suggestion. 
There is a lot of drama going on and it did not need to be this way.And, no, this is not tragic..just..unfortunate.


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## BigBawdyDame (Apr 4, 2006)

Sweet Tooth said:


> But BBD! You're part of our clique! No one should dare mess with you, hon. Give me names!


Thanks Kris, for the offer. It was quite some time ago and the person is no longer a active member.


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## olivefun (Apr 4, 2006)

Erendis said:


> Words for the day:
> 
> Use common sense.
> Respect others always, even those you disagree with.
> ...



Sage words indeed.

I cannot think of a situation where these words wouldn't help.

Thank you.
Olive


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## BigBawdyDame (Apr 4, 2006)

Elwing said:


> April 4, 2006
> 
> 
> I am sorry so many feel that we, collectively, have done such a rotten job of trying to keep things under control in the chat rooms. I am sorry that some of those I have had to censor for their behavior feel as if I did it for personal reasons. I am sorry that my fellow Ops, with two exceptions, dont feel its important to comment on this subject and show their support for the Ops as a group. I am very sorry the owner of the room and under whose directives we made our decisions did not respond to any of this as of the writing of this letter. I know that from the first day I was made an Op, I have logged many hours not only watching the room, but researching trolls and assisting chatters. I have given my time and tools to rewriting the rules to make them more in line with the owners vision of the room. I have written other documents, as well, which will probably never see the light of day now. I did ALL of this on my own time, and I volunteered for this.
> ...


Elwing, I too am sorry you feel the need to quit. It's a sad day indeed when a CHAT ROOM can be so stressful for people. I think we ALL need to put this entire situation into perspective. I had to for myself or I was going to drive myself insane. Enjoy it, have fun, but do remember, it is only a chat room!


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## rainyday (Apr 4, 2006)

BigBawdyDame said:


> Enjoy it, have fun, but do remember, it is only a chat room!



Amen .


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## olivefun (Apr 4, 2006)

Conrad, I am sorry.

This must be a tremendous blow for you.
I cannot immagine how you must feel.

I was unhappy when I was booted for something stupid that I was being wrongfully accused of. Just the same, I don't want you to feel the way you must be. Just reacting to what has transpired must be dreadful for you. 

If I could send you an extra shot of strength and peace, right now, I would.


Olive


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## ripley (Apr 4, 2006)

Chat _is_ "just chat." It shouldn't be taken so much to heart. That said...we're all people on the other ends of these computers, and feelings do get involved.

I don't have much to say about the current contretemps. But I do have something to say about Dimensions chat in general. I started going to chat in September of '04. It was an eye opener! Such a vibrant community. It changed the way I felt about myself, and the world. So many beautiful fat women, being admired by so many men.

I don't go in that much anymore, not for any specific reason. I still talk to people I met in dimschat almost every day though. I met people there that will be friends for life. 

I am extremely grateful. I really hope that chat will be there for the next small town girl who comes along.


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## NancyGirl74 (Apr 4, 2006)

ripley said:


> Chat _is_ "just chat." It shouldn't be taken so much to heart. That said...we're all people on the other ends of these computers, and feelings do get involved.
> 
> I don't have much to say about the current contretemps. But I do have something to say about Dimensions chat in general. I started going to chat in September of '04. It was an eye opener! Such a vibrant community. It changed the way I felt about myself, and the world. So many beautiful fat women, being admired by so many men.
> 
> ...



It was that for me too, Ripley. This whole situation has be very sad and a bit angry.

To the Ops who have decided to leave: I'm sorry you felt like you needed to resign but I can't say as I blame you for wanting to leave such negativeness behind.


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## starrbbw (Apr 4, 2006)

I would like to make it clear that this outcome of my original post is beyond my wildest imagination. I never intended for things to escalate so far beyond repair. My intention was to bring attention to the issues that many of us chatters were struggling with. I didn't feel comfortable approaching the OPs with my concerns but perhaps I should have consulted Conrad in a more private manner. For that, I apologize. I do not apologize for the feelings that I expressed. These were valid and needed to be put out there. What I hoped to gain from putting my thoughts out there was perhaps some understanding from the OPs and Conrad and perhaps some fine-tuning of posting the rules, upholding the rules with some consitency and the handing down of warnings and punishments for chatters who needed reprimanding in a less demeaning manner. I understand that there are some chatters who are repeat offenders and probably did not deserve the respect that should be shown to one another in there. However, I did witness and personally experienced model chatters being spoken to in a way that did not show respect for the chatters. I think as a result of this, some of us did lose patience with some of the OPs. I totally respect them and their valiant efforts to uphold the chatroom rules and regulations. I can't tell you how thankful I am that this room even exists. Do you know how many lives have been improved thanks to Conrad's chatrooms. People have made friends that they might not have made in their daily lives because they are shy or because they aren't able to move outside of their home very easily. People have met their soulmates, there have been numerous marriages as a result of this chatroom. I, myself have met my amazing boyfriend of almost 2 years now thanks to Conrad's chatroom. My outlook on myself and how I feel about myself has forever been altered thanks to Conrad and the many wonderful people I have come in contact with in the chatroom. I think that's what we need to focus on from this point forward. The great things that have come out of this chatroom and not all of this negativity. I think that's the root of why people have been chased away from the room. The negativity. I only wanted to make things better between the OPs and the chatters so that we could return to the ideal that Conrad had for his chatroom. It is a wonderful meeting place for the many people who come there on a daily basis to find something, whether it's love, fantasy, friendship or just companionship that they might not find in the real world if they are socially inept and perhaps find it easier to be whittier and more outgoing in cyberspace. 

It is my hope that the 3 OPs that have chosen to leave will reconsider and that we can all work together to create a positive and friendly environment in which we show respect for fellow chatters, owners and OPs alike.


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## mossystate (Apr 4, 2006)

Great post,Starr! Sometimes, all that is needed is a heads up, what people do with it is up to them..on any side of any issue.There has been theatrics on both sides...I say...get off the cross..we need the wood!

Dims will survive this..in fact..I can already tell there is a better attitude!!


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## Miss Vickie (Apr 4, 2006)

TraciJo67 said:


> Much as I love ya, Red ... I gotta disagree.
> 
> This is about as far from a tragedy as you can get.
> 
> ...



Well, except that while it's "just chat" what we're really talking about are relationships. And relationships are important, and I think people's strong feelings about them should be validated. People should have a chance to vent their frustrations (on both sides), and then hopefully -- with good leadership, and this is where Conrad comes in -- a resolution can occur. I'm sad that the moderators decided to leave, but having been a moderator I can tell you, I don't blame them. OTOH I don't blame the people who feel they were booted unfairly and had no recourse. Firmly established rules that are consistently enforced help everyone, although even in those cases, people will still feel, no doubt, unfairly picked on.

But what I'm hearing from some, "it's no big deal so just suck it up" is unfair. Sure, we've all had more horrible tragedies in our lives. Nobody's saying it's along the same lines as a death of a loved one (or a snowmachine!), having a terminal disease, or any other true life tragedies. But for whatever reason, it's sparking passion among some of the members here and I'd like to believe that their feelings should be supported, even if we personally don't 'get it'.

But that's just me.


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## OC Fat Dude (Apr 5, 2006)

starrbbw said:


> I would like to make it clear that this outcome of my original post is beyond my wildest imagination.



Jen, it took just a small stream and a million years to form the Grand Canyon. Nice going!!!  LOL (kidding, of course)


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## mossystate (Apr 5, 2006)

HaHA..Mike is a 'junior member... 

To Vickie..you 'get it'


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## Vince (Apr 5, 2006)

Venting validation with vitriol and vigor will soon lead to vanquished vanity! Volunteers verify vexatious vents and verisimilitude verges with venomousness. I have been waiting for the generation of vipers for a long time.

Just pour your heart out and if enough do exactly that then it is guaranteed mayhem will follow, hard feelings will increase and dissatisfaction and disapproval will be ubiquitous. When forums NEED to be moderated they are already in trouble. 

One would be a certified lunatic to volunteer. Thank goodness there is no such shortage!


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Apr 5, 2006)

Can't rep you again, Vickie, but you're so incredibly wise, wonderful, and beautiful.


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## Elwing (Apr 5, 2006)

I apologize. Not for WHAT I said yesterday, but how I said it. Conrad is not to blame here. Neither are the chatters who complained. There is a right, a wrong and the truth in all situations. Somewhere between my right and their wrong (or their right and my wrong) there's the truth. I have learned some lessons about myself and people in general. I cannot speak for the other Ops who quit, but I am not a martyr and do not wish to be considered a martyr. There's no blame here. This is what it is, it happened, it's over. Let's all move on, please. 

I respect Conrad and I appreciate the learning opportunity he gave to me and the service he provides to me and the rest of the BBW/FA community. Change is often painful, even if that change is positive it may not always seem that way. I will be around, in my regular persona, just not as Elwing.


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## mango (Apr 6, 2006)

*.... and the moral of this story is 'absolute power corrupts absolutely'.


 *


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## Tina (Apr 6, 2006)

No. I think the moral is that people make mistakes because we are human. And it's also sometimes impossible to be perfectly consistent 100% of the time. There are also variations when it comes to interpretations of the rules.

I was somewhat indignant earlier about adults being reprimanded for saying "effing," but I also know, as someone who has moderated a number of boards for the last 6 or 7 years, that it's not an easy job. You question yourself as to if you're doing the right thing, and others complain, because as we all know, there is no thing as being able to make everyone happy all of the time.


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