# The Dr. Keith Ablow Show/ Fat as subjective?



## FatAndProud (Nov 13, 2006)

Just a reminder as I know everyone probably knows....

Dr. Keith Show, "Fatabulous" is on tomorrow!!!!!!

http://drkeith.warnerbros.com/thisweek/

I'm calling in sick just to watch it lol (i can't tape it )

P.S. it looks fun!


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## Ned Sonntag (Nov 13, 2006)

When these ringmasters come on all innocent about never having wondered or acted upon any unconventional impulses? Dr."MD not an FA"... at least Jerry Springer was honest about skimming some cream off the top...:batting:


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## Fairia (Nov 13, 2006)

Was this from a Springer episode I don't know about?


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## FatAndProud (Nov 14, 2006)

Lol, yeah. 

M.D. schmem D. :|

I just finished watching it. Two thumbs up. 

Parts of it pissed me off tho....Darn old lady in the audience attacking Rhonda. RAWR!!!!!!!


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## SamanthaNY (Nov 14, 2006)

If Leah or Courtney (the show producers) ever come back to our boards - a few of us (me included) owe them an apology. Our suspicions and fears were well-founded from previous experience, but the show they crafted was positive, even-keeled and fair. Certainly the best television portrayal of our community that I've ever seen, and perhaps our prior input had a little to do with that. Thank you to the show, and to those of you who took the risk and appeared on the panel. Well done!


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 14, 2006)

The audience attacked Rhonda because she jumped on her own son's smoking habits. Furthermore, her son's appearance on the show was NOT in the original plan.

All around, I DO NOT think that the Dr.Keith atmosphere was unbias. Despite the looks of disgust, the "eeks", and the dozens of rolling eyes I noticed in the audience, my two thumbs up go to Gaining Goddess, Destiny, Desire, and the hotty from BODacious (Jennifer, was it?)...they carried themselves very well and managed to take control of a seemingly fat-hating audience. 

The feeder couple fared pretty well also. But again, there was a segment toward the end of the program in which the boyfriend looked like he was about to say something of significant importance to either defend his girl or trash the weight myths, but whatever it was, it was conveniently cut from the broadcast.

As for Rhonda's segment? Well, I won't go on about how the audience jumped on her...I won't go on about how the flow of the program was changed from what she had agreed to...I'll simply clear my throat and say "I told you so".

And in closing, despite the class, the confidence, and the valiant efforts of the ladies on the panel, Dr.Keith simply overshadowed all of it in his closing statement with health risks and all the other malarchy that all of us are accustomed to...and his audience followed his lead.


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 14, 2006)

SamanthaNY said:


> Certainly the best television portrayal of our community that I've ever seen, and perhaps our prior input had a little to do with that.



I gotta disagree. I've seen the BBW community handled with more respect on Donahue, Geraldo, Maury, and several other talk shows in the early 90's. In fact, anyone who knows their history (or simply knows the woman) will recognize one of the supporters in the audience. Remember the redhaired lady with the glasses who inquired about BODacious? That's none other than Nancy Goddess, who made several appearances in calendars and TV shows a little over ten years ago, and has also been running the Goddesses BBW dance party in NYC for 20 years.


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## LoveBHMS (Nov 14, 2006)

UncannyBruceman said:


> The audience attacked Rhonda because she jumped on her own son's smoking habits. Furthermore, her son's appearance on the show was NOT in the original plan.
> 
> All around, I DO NOT think that the Dr.Keith atmosphere was unbias. Despite the looks of disgust, the "eeks", and the dozens of rolling eyes I noticed in the audience, my two thumbs up go to Gaining Goddess, Destiny, Desire, and the hotty from BODacious (Jennifer, was it?)...they carried themselves very well and managed to take control of a seemingly fat-hating audience.
> 
> ...



Whether Rhonda's son's appearance was in the original plan or not isn't the point. She wasn't ambushed, both of them clearly knew he'd be there. They showed a son concerned for his mom and a mom that didn't like her son smoking. The love between them was obvious. That the show demonstrated a family member's concern over a weight issue doesn't make it bad.

Sure, there were some eeks and eye rolling. There was also applause. There was also a skinny woman who said she admired their confidence. 

How exactly do you know what the man in the feeder couple was going to say? You're SURE what happened was he was going to say something about weight myths and it was cut out. You conveniently ignore that they showed him talking about how much he loved his girlfriend, how much he loved her body, saying he was 'out of the fat closet', saying that he loved her "soul" and that the second it stopped being fun, they stop doing it. To say nothing of Dr. Keith admiring his defense of it being "a fetish, but it's OUR fetish" which was freaking cute.

There was nothing that could have happened in Rhonda's segment that you wouldn't say "I told you so."

You totally misrepresent Dr. Keith's closing statement. What he said was "As a physician, I would inform patients of health risks but beyond that respect a lifestyle choice." He compared it to a patient who rode a motorcycle, basically saying he'd give the patient information about risks and then shut up, respecting the patient's right to make his/her own lifestyle choices. He also said these women were clearly happy and that he _could not tell them it would be better to be a depressed size 2._

I think you saw the show you wanted to see.


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## bigsexy920 (Nov 14, 2006)

I didn't see the show and I haven't really followed the threads on this but I want to say that I really think it was very brave of all the people that sat on the stage in fron of an audience and stated their case deserve our respect if nothing else. I for one would never have been able to do what these people did. 

I don't think people that have the same views as these people and didn't have the courage to show up and speak on what they believe in should be, clearing their throats or pointing fingers or doing the "I told you so's". I'm sorry to me and I speak only for me, I dont think it's right. 

So girls and guys that did make it to the show I say good for you for standing up for what is important to you. I think you are all wonderful.


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## SamanthaNY (Nov 14, 2006)

UncannyBruceman said:


> I'll simply clear my throat and say "I told you so".


I get the feeling you've been itching to say that, and would've done so no matter what was on the show.


LoveBHMS said:


> (to UncannyBruceman) I think you saw the show you wanted to see.


Bingo.


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 14, 2006)

LoveBHMS said:


> You totally misrepresent Dr. Keith's closing statement. What he said was "As a physician, I would inform patients of health risks but beyond that respect a lifestyle choice."



But the show was supposed to be about confidence...and the men and women who appeared on the show were NOT PATIENTS...they were CONFIDENT PEOPLE WITH A POSITIVE MESSAGE. If I were a talk show host, an unbiased talk show host, and if I had a panel of beautiful, confident, sexy fat girls who flew in to send a positive message to their counterparts across the country, I would think it wrong to talk about health risks in my closing statement. Again, I've seen famous talk show hosts like Geraldo come out and FULLY support the guests on his panel, especially guests from the BBW community, and Dr.Keith just didn't seem to be doing that. He wasn't rude, don't think I'm accusing him of rudeness, but I still don't feel that he reinforced the message that his guests were trying to send. I don't think it would have hurt to commend the bravery and confidence that his guests portrayed, but no...he talked about health risks and choices. To me, that simply means that he was opposed to idea of a happy fat girl and just didn't have the balls to say it.

As for the feeder couple, I already commended them for their appearance. They fared well. And when the subject of health risks was brought about, the boyfriend said "hey, Dr.K...", waiting to say something in support of the panel, and they went to a commercial break. Again, I commend Dr.Keith's guests for representing this community, but I'm not convinced that their message was preached to an open-minded host and/or audience.

The show WAS NOT the media circus I had feared it would be, but I've seen better protrayals of our community in the past and I don't think that this one measures up.


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## mossystate (Nov 14, 2006)

I won't be home until after 4PM, but I just saw the show does not air here in Seattle until 5..yay! Sounds like the show did not confirm worst fears.









Oh, and Bruce, while I certainly understand why you placed the words under your avatar, you need to remove my name.


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## moonvine (Nov 14, 2006)

UncannyBruceman said:


> I gotta disagree. I've seen the BBW community handled with more respect on Donahue, Geraldo, Maury, and several other talk shows in the early 90's.



Donahue was respectful and fair to everyone. He's about the only talk show host I would ever deal with. :wubu: I want him back doing a talk show.

Maury completely makes things up, I suppose to make things more interesting or shocking or whatever. I have a friend who is happily married with a baby, and he put her on his show as being married to a little person (I believe that is the correct term) - something called "Opposites Attract." Once you've destroyed your credibility even once by doing that, I'm not going to ever take anything you say seriously again.

I don't have too much of an opinion on Geraldo.

I did see a Sally Jesse Raphael show in the early 90's that was a fat chick beauty contest. It was totally positive and well done. Of course, she's out of the biz as well now.

I did not see the show in question, so I can't form an opinion on it. I can say that is possible to do an unbiased talk show on any subject, because Donahue did it for years. It is my opinion that most folks who do talk shows nowadays have no interest in doing an unbiased talk show, because unbiased talk shows are not what produce good ratings.


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## Tim_FA (Nov 14, 2006)

UncannyBruceman said:


> the looks of disgust, the "eeks", and the dozens of rolling eyes .


...we can't discount the discomforts of gas contributing to the facial expressions


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## LoveBHMS (Nov 14, 2006)

to let a man rush over to your wife like that!

Man, when she said "come here and I'll show you" he couldn't get on that stage fast enough! And I think he _liked_ the big Nikki hug _a lot._


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 14, 2006)

moonvine said:


> I did see a Sally Jesse Raphael show in the early 90's that was a fat chick beauty contest. It was totally positive and well done. Of course, she's out of the biz as well now.



I know that Maury makes shit up now a days, but he didn't always...

And I remember that Sally show, too! It was a perfect example of how a size-positive show SHOULD have been handled...pageant or not. I've even seen fat girl dating games on Jenny Jones that were 100% supportive. 

I don't feel that Dr.Keith was 100% supportive. It wasn't exactly a slap in the face of size-acceptance, but it wasn't a thumbs up, either.


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 14, 2006)

Tim_FA said:


> ...we can't discount the discomforts of gas contributing to the facial expressions



   Well said!! Listen, I'm not a fan of Dr.Keith's handling of today's subject, but I DO commend the guests for their efforts. The girls looked great and they spoke very well, but I still feel that their message was lost in the conclusion of the program. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it.


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## Tim_FA (Nov 14, 2006)

LoveBHMS said:


> to let a man rush over to your wife like that!



LOL, well I was a few hundred miles away when the event had taken place, but I don't think I would've stopped Dr Keith from giving Nicki a kiss and a hug...he just looked so darn happy to have contact with a "Real Woman"


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## largenlovely (Nov 14, 2006)

I just got done watching the show and i think overall it was pretty positive. Dr Keith allowed the girls to say what they had to say without being super negative. I mean, there was some negativity on his part, but i think we all expected that to some degree. Thankfully it wasn't as bad as we assumed. I think all the girls did a great job....Desire and Nikki did a fantastic job...definitely glad to have them representing the fat girls ...right on girls...They said a lot of things i would've wanted to say if i'd had the cahoney's to go on there lol. Also, i was glad to hear Nichole keep reiterating that fat girls aren't just fat because they sit and eat pies all day lmao. 

as for Rhonda's segment, I think he did single her out. I think what he did was use Rhonda to express his negative opinions to ALL the girls, but only spoke directly to her...but he *was* trying to make a point. I think Rhonda handled herself well for the situation she was put in. 

I think the feeder/feedee segment went well too. It showed it as an intimate thing between two people and that feeders aren't all so horrible as to not be concerned about the person they're with and that if it comes down to it they can live without it...which is what i've found after having talked to a lot of feeders over the years. 

Someone mentioned on the other board that they were glad that they also showed a couple who wasn't involved in feederism and such ...but just liked fat girls and i would have to agree. There are just so many aspects to this community and it was nice that they did make an attempt to show them all.

I would say it was overall a very positive show even with Dr. Keith's occasional health remarks and such.


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## ThatFatGirl (Nov 14, 2006)

I dusted off the old VCR, put new batteries in the remote control and spent a good half an hour trying to set the thing up, then program it to record today so I could watch the show... I only read as far as Sam's post and stopped to avoid any spoilers.. I'm really looking forward to watching the program (and really hoping my VCR worked today). 

Congrats to all who participated.


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## PrettyFatGirl4U (Nov 14, 2006)

LoveBHMS said:


> Whether Rhonda's son's appearance was in the original plan or not isn't the point. She wasn't ambushed, both of them clearly knew he'd be there. They showed a son concerned for his mom and a mom that didn't like her son smoking. The love between them was obvious. That the show demonstrated a family member's concern over a weight issue doesn't make it bad.
> 
> Sure, there were some eeks and eye rolling. There was also applause. There was also a skinny woman who said she admired their confidence.
> 
> ...



I agree with your assessment Luvs, I think Bruce is looking for a fight and only willing to see the negative. I too thought it was handled well and in an inquiring, NOT judgemental manner.

And Bruce, if you really think the health risks of obesity are "malarky" you're living with your head in the sand....no I'm not advocating weight loss and no I do not think all fat people are on the verge of death but obesity does increase the risk of certain illnesses. That being said, knowledge is power and for our community to be aware of the possible health risks of obesity and make better choices is just proactive good common sense, hardly the "malarky" you classify it as!

All in all, I think all the women (and men) came across as confident, well adjusted, intelligent and well spoken and it was a positve interview!


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## PrettyFatGirl4U (Nov 14, 2006)

largenlovely said:


> They said a lot of things i would've wanted to say if i'd had the cahoney's to go on there



Melissa hunny, they aren't Irish, they are Spanish -- COJONES!

cohoney's, lmao...too funny!


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 14, 2006)

PrettyFatGirl4U said:


> I agree with your assessment Luvs, I think Bruce is looking for a fight and only willing to see the negative. I too thought it was handled well and in an inquiring, NOT judgemental manner.



Not entirely. I saw the positives of the program but I also saw a few negatives. We at Dimensions have been addressing health risks and assorted myths that are linked to obesity for YEARS. In short, some of us are just naturally healthier than others. The risks themselves aren't bullshit, but inviting several people to talk about confidence and sex appeal only to throw the risks at them IS bullshit, in my opinion. 

I fully admit that this broadcast was NOWHERE NEAR as bad as I had anticipated, but I still don't think that the show was as supportive as they wanted us to think.


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## largenlovely (Nov 14, 2006)

ya know what's even funnier?....my friend sat here and i spelled it out loud for her and she was like Oh Yeah..that's right hahahahhaha. but if i were to have cahoney's...they'd be irish ones lol




PrettyFatGirl4U said:


> Melissa hunny, they aren't Irish, they are Spanish -- COJONES!
> 
> cohoney's, lmao...too funny!


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## largenlovely (Nov 14, 2006)

just to elaborate on what Bruce is saying here......

There are a lot of health risks doctors include with obesity that aren't related. They're issues that people would have to deal with regardless of their size and yet doctors just say "oh you're fat" and lump it all together. I think that happens a LOT. Not to say that size doesn't affect some people's health, because that would be stupid, but in my opinion, it's not nearly as bad as they claim it to be. 

Also, i think where Bruce is coming from is that he's seen other more positive shows dealing with the issues so if it doesn't live up to that standard then it's not going to be as positive...it's all about perception 




UncannyBruceman said:


> Not entirely. I saw the positives of the program but I also saw a few negatives. We at Dimensions have been addressing health risks and assorted myths that are linked to obesity for YEARS. In short, some of us are just naturally healthier than others. The risks themselves aren't bullshit, but inviting several people to talk about confidence and sex appeal only to throw the risks at them IS bullshit, in my opinion.
> 
> I fully admit that this broadcast was NOWHERE NEAR as bad as I had anticipated, but I still don't think that the show was as supportive as they wanted us to think.


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## PrettyFatGirl4U (Nov 14, 2006)

UncannyBruceman said:


> Not entirely. I saw the positives of the program but I also saw a few negatives. We at Dimensions have been addressing health risks and assorted myths that are linked to obesity for YEARS. In short, some of us are just naturally healthier than others. The risks themselves aren't bullshit, but inviting several people to talk about confidence and sex appeal only to throw the risks at them IS bullshit, in my opinion.
> 
> I fully admit that this broadcast was NOWHERE NEAR as bad as I had anticipated, but I still don't think that the show was as supportive as they wanted us to think.



So when will you be putting on 150 pounds so you can really speak from experience and only exude confidence, let the consequences be damned? Then you can speak to the "malarky" sport...til then don't try to justify your proclivities by minimizing the FACTS.

And again, I'm not advocating weight loss, but labeling pro-active awareness, choices and primary health maintenence as malarky is why feeders have such "evil" reps. Classifying Dr. Ablow as "not supportive" because he had the audacity to remind everyone present that monitoring blood pressure, blood sugar, seeing a physician regularly and other proactive aspects of health maintenence is the REAL "malarky"!


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## Alan (Nov 14, 2006)

Would someone be willing to make a VHS copy of that show(Dr Ablow) for me...I completely forgot & couldn't get away at the 11 A.M. local showing time...Let me know the price...Thanks for the consideration


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## LoveBHMS (Nov 14, 2006)

PrettyFatGirl4U said:


> So when will you be putting on 150 pounds so you can really speak from experience and only exude confidence, let the consequences be damned? Then you can speak to the "malarky" sport...til then don't try to justify your proclivities by minimizing the FACTS.
> 
> And again, I'm not advocating weight loss, but labeling pro-active awareness, choices and primary health maintenence as malarky is why feeders have such "evil" reps. Classifying Dr. Ablow as "not supportive" because he had the audacity to remind everyone present that monitoring blood pressure, blood sugar, seeing a physician regularly and other proactive aspects of health maintenence is the REAL "malarky"!



And also, Rhonda spoke very clearly about health. She herself said she visited a doctor regularly and had bloodwork done. She said if her doctor told her to lose weight she would. She knew all her bloodwork numbers and BP off the top of her head. If health was 'malarkey' then why else would she bother going to the doctor? She was very clearly aware of it and attentive to her own health.

Dr. Ablow presented it as a lifestyle choice that is accompanied by potential risks. He never said "I'd tell any patient of mine to lose weight so as to avoid high blood pressure or diabetes." What he said was that it would be his responsibility to inform patients of those issues and know that they were then making informed choices.


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## activistfatgirl (Nov 14, 2006)

good god i want to see this show.
praying to the gods of technology and youtube...


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## largenlovely (Nov 14, 2006)

one of my friends is tivo'ing it and said he would upload it to youtube. so you're in luck lol




activistfatgirl said:


> good god i want to see this show.
> praying to the gods of technology and youtube...


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 14, 2006)

PrettyFatGirl4U said:


> So when will you be putting on 150 pounds so you can really speak from experience and only exude confidence, let the consequences be damned? Then you can speak to the "malarky" sport...til then don't try to justify your proclivities by minimizing the FACTS.



I'll be sure to post a picture if I ever hit 350 but you're missing my point. I'm not denying that potential health risks exist. Dr.Keith was talking to his guests as if they were patients while his representatives assured us that he wouldn't. The show was fine up until Rhonda came on. When he asked her why she wanted to get fatter, the tone in his voice did not sit well with me.

To me, Keith was judging her, and brought her son out to put her on the spot...which is something that the show had promised not to do to her. Rhonda was told that she would be allowed to explain that you don't have to be thin to be sexy, and when she took the panel, the good doctor changed his tune to "if your son quits smoking, will you think about losing weight?".


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 14, 2006)

LoveBHMS said:


> Dr. Ablow presented it as a lifestyle choice that is accompanied by potential risks. He never said "I'd tell any patient of mine to lose weight so as to avoid high blood pressure or diabetes." What he said was that it would be his responsibility to inform patients of those issues and know that they were then making informed choices.



You're missing my point, too, I'm afraid. Kudos to Rhonda for keeping on top of her health. It's advisable to all of us, regardless of what size we are.

BUT...when the title of the show is _FATabulous_, and the guests are invited to talk about their confidence, sex appeal, websites, fetishes, or whatever else, I don't see how he's reinforcing them in his closing statement when the words loosely translate to "these women look good but they're probably gonna die". I'm pretty sure that Rhonda and all the other girls may have reached a few viewers who might still be afraid to be comfortable in their looks, but as far as the people on the other side of the fence, I highly doubt that any fat-hating attitudes were changed this afternoon.


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## LoveBHMS (Nov 14, 2006)

UncannyBruceman said:


> I'll be sure to post a picture if I ever hit 350 but you're missing my point. I'm not denying that potential health risks exist. Dr.Keith was talking to his guests as if they were patients while his representatives assured us that he wouldn't. The show was fine up until Rhonda came on. When he asked her why she wanted to get fatter, the tone in his voice did not sit well with me.
> 
> To me, Keith was judging her, and brought her son out to put her on the spot...which is something that the show had promised not to do to her. Rhonda was told that she would be allowed to explain that you don't have to be thin to be sexy, and when she took the panel, the good doctor changed his tune to "if your son quits smoking, will you think about losing weight?".



The show clearly drove home the point that you don't have to be thin to be sexy. Dr. Keith did not suggest that Rhonda lose weight. What he did was pick up on her son's comments, the back and forth about his smoking, and their arguments about the issue. It could as easily be seen as an indictment of smoking, or as a suggestion of compromise as an attack on Rhonda. It came across as "Ok, he doesn't want you to be fat because he worries about your health, you don't want him to smoke because you worry about his health. Would you each make a compromise? Or, are your choices something about which you can't compromise?" 

It was just thought provoking and more about their relationship. He later compared WG to motorcycle riding, saying it was a choice that carries some potential risks and one should be aware of them.


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## PrettyFatGirl4U (Nov 14, 2006)

UncannyBruceman said:


> I'll be sure to post a picture if I ever hit 350 but you're missing my point. I'm not denying that potential health risks exist. Dr.Keith was talking to his guests as if they were patients while his representatives assured us that he wouldn't. The show was fine up until Rhonda came on. When he asked her why she wanted to get fatter, the tone in his voice did not sit well with me.
> 
> To me, Keith was judging her, and brought her son out to put her on the spot...which is something that the show had promised not to do to her. Rhonda was told that she would be allowed to explain that you don't have to be thin to be sexy, and when she took the panel, the good doctor changed his tune to "if your son quits smoking, will you think about losing weight?".



To my recollection, there was never any mention of NOT bringing up the realities of obesity. The promise from the organizers of the show were that it would be explored in an even keeled, non-mocking fashion in an objective manner - which it 100% was! Dr. Ablow is a doctor and he was honest in his expression of the concerns he would express to a patient regarding the realities and risks of obesity - not preaching to the panel of women. He was NEVER berating or belittling....just stating the facts that you seem hell-bent to minimize Bruce. Again, to justify your proclivities and desires, in my opinion! 

In fact Bruce, I've NEVER seen you post about any of the postitive and endearing traits of the many women you claim to have had relationships with, just about how fat they were and how much they gained and the machinations you contrived to keep them gaining.....seems to me you date bodies and fat more than women. And I wonder when you're 50 what ssbbw will be at YOUR side when that "malarky" you've ignored comes to fruition?

And please don't turn around and tell me I'm anti-fat or anti-feeder. As long as two adults make INFORMED decisions while understanding all the realities, both short and long term, I say have at it and enjoy every moment!


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## largenlovely (Nov 14, 2006)

ok i'm gonna have to come to Bruce's defense on this one....

Me and Bruce have been friends a long time and y'all aren't seeing every side to him just from posts on this board. Of all the chats we've had, while he's open and honest about his preferences, he's absolutely not trying to force anyone into anything and this isn't something he obsesses about. He totally realizes there is more to a person than their body and this is coming first hand from a woman who speaks to him regularly. 




PrettyFatGirl4U said:


> In fact Bruce, I've NEVER seen you post about any of the postitive and endearing traits of the many women you claim to have had relationships with, just about how fat they were and how much they gained and the machinations you contrived to keep them gaining.....seems to me you date bodies and fat more than women. And I wonder when you're 50 what ssbbw will be at YOUR side when that "malarky" you've ignored comes to fruition?


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## PrettyFatGirl4U (Nov 14, 2006)

largenlovely said:


> ok i'm gonna have to come to Bruce's defense on this one....
> 
> Me and Bruce have been friends a long time and y'all aren't seeing every side to him just from posts on this board. Of all the chats we've had, while he's open and honest about his preferences, he's absolutely not trying to force anyone into anything and this isn't something he obsesses about. He totally realizes there is more to a person than their body and this is coming first hand from a woman who speaks to him regularly.
> 
> ...


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## -X- (Nov 14, 2006)

need this on youtube...


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## Ivy (Nov 14, 2006)

largenlovely said:


> one of my friends is tivo'ing it and said he would upload it to youtube. so you're in luck lol



please, please, PLEASE post a link when it goes up!!! i missed it today!


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 14, 2006)

PrettyFatGirl4U said:


> Unfortunatly that fact never comes across in his posts.



That's mainly because there are some people in this world who refuse to look for the decency in highly opinionated people like myself. Furthermore, to judge me for posting about my "non-endearing" experiences with my ex is just plain ridiculous. If the topic of discussion is feederism, I'm going to share a related experience. Thus far, in the eight years that I've been coming here, not a single person has asked me about what I did with any particular girlfriend for a birthday, a holiday, Valentine's Day, or whatever else. These boards were designed to celebrate the fat female figure, and that's exactly what I've been doing since I found this place in 1998...only recently has it become a problem and that simply disgusts me.

You saw the show one way, I saw it another. Rhonda defended herself well, but you can't expect me to believe that Dr.Keith wasn't singling her out...especially when he retorted to one of her comments by saying "I don't think these people (meaning the audience) are buying it".


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## PrettyFatGirl4U (Nov 14, 2006)

UncannyBruceman said:


> That's mainly because there are some people in this world who refuse to look for the decency in highly opinionated people like myself. Furthermore, to judge me for posting about my "non-endearing" experiences with my ex is just plain ridiculous. If the topic of discussion is feederism, I'm going to share a related experience. Thus far, in the eight years that I've been coming here, not a single person has asked me about what I did with any particular girlfriend for a birthday, a holiday, Valentine's Day, or whatever else. These boards were designed to celebrate the fat female figure, and that's exactly what I've been doing since I found this place in 1998...only recently has it become a problem and that simply disgusts me.
> 
> You saw the show one way, I saw it another. Rhonda defended herself well, but you can't expect me to believe that Dr.Keith wasn't singling her out...especially when he retorted to one of her comments by saying "I don't think these people (meaning the audience) are buying it".


Look chum, everyone else on the board thinks the show was a very positive one except you....your agenda was clearly one of I told you so and you just can't conceed that you have no real cause for the I told you so's.

And if you're such a doting bf who doesn't simply objectify fat why wouldn't your endearing treatment of your girlfriends over these past 8 years be part of said "celebration of the female figure" rather than us having to ask? You volunteer your objectification of fat and you contrivances to keep your women/make your women that way yet you withhold everything else? Me thinks you've show everyone here exactly where your priorities lie. And you are more than entitled to those priorities but let's not pretend that you don't completely obejectify fat and that the women is completely secondary.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Nov 14, 2006)

moonvine said:


> Donahue was respectful and fair to everyone. He's about the only talk show host I would ever deal with. :wubu: I want him back doing a talk show.
> I don't have too much of an opinion on Geraldo.
> 
> I did see a Sally Jesse Raphael show in the early 90's that was a fat chick beauty contest. It was totally positive and well done. Of course, she's out of the biz as well now.
> ...



I saw that Sally Jesse show, I think. Didnt they hold a lingerie contest for all the big women ? They also had a guy into body-building on there talking about how much he loves big women. That was a good show and was very respectful- didnt mock anyone, if Im remembering correctly. Sally always had class, imo.

I do remember a show on Geraldo about a big women's escort service. I also recall him talking to one big lady about her bf/date "feeding" her. The final analysis on that part (I dont recall it being referred to as feederism, the lady just explained what she did with her dates) was that a man pressing for a woman's weight to be bigger is as controlling as a man pressing for a woman's weight to be lower. 
(I personally dont care if women like to do feederism if they are happy with it- because if that is what they really want then that's two consenting adults and none of my business. Just a disclaimer of my own opinion)

I dont have total recall on any Donahue shows but I liked the guy, too.


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## blueeyedevie (Nov 14, 2006)

I am most certainly in the very middle of this conversation. I agree with Bruce with a twist. I am going to use parts of bruce's first post.. 



> "The audience attacked Rhonda because she jumped on her own son's smoking habits. Furthermore, her son's appearance on the show was NOT in the original plan.
> 
> All around, I DO NOT think that the Dr.Keith atmosphere was unbias. Despite the looks of disgust, the "eeks", and the dozens of rolling eyes I noticed in the audience, my two thumbs up go to Gaining Goddess, Destiny, Desire, and the hotty from BODacious (Jennifer, was it?)...they carried themselves very well and managed to take control of a seemingly fat-hating audience.



(KUDOS) I Was so happy to be represented by beautiful, smart, well put together women. Thank you to all the ladies for being such great examples. 






> As for Rhonda's segment? Well, I won't go on about how the audience jumped on her...I won't go on about how the flow of the program was changed from what she had agreed to...I'll simply clear my throat and say "I told you so".



My opinion on this, varies a bit form Bruce, BUT I have to say, I see it as a somewhat parent as well as the fat girl I am. Having helped raised a child for two years now, I love this teenager very much and he has some sever issues. IF he would come to me and say, "your weight bothers me and I am so worried about you etc., If I were to stop this (his behavior) and prove it to you. Would you then loose some weight so we can do more together." Instantly I would say yes, thinking of my self later. I think why the audience come down so hard on Rhonda is because she stalled. She didn't say yes. She didn't jump on to * the traditional What's best for your child*. EVEN Thought as a fat women I can see Rhondas side. I am presently trying to drop about a 100 lb. and I am deathly, scared of it. I DON'T want to loose weight and The pure thought that I have to makes me sick. I want to be who I am and look like I do, how I am comfortable. However it has come to the point where I am physically suffering. 




> And in closing, despite the class, the confidence, and the valiant efforts of the ladies on the panel, Dr.Keith simply overshadowed all of it in his closing statement with health risks and all the other malarchy that all of us are accustomed to...and his audience followed his lead.




While I think what Dr. Keith didn't say anything bad... I think it was the wrong type of show to say it on. Here is a show your supposed to be showing pride and confidence, not focus on health and risk. 

I enjoyed the show very much, I just really wish, that people other than our community could see Truly see the points about our lives and how we feel. I wanted to slap the person with the comment about ** it seems your trying to convince the audience about your confidence. THAT really pissed me off.


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## dragorat (Nov 14, 2006)

*I just finished watching the show twice & think all in all it was very positive.Yes there was a little tention with Rhonda but she handled it well as did the other ladies.The ladies were all lovely & well poised & I think they showed BIG can be BEAUTIFUL!*


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 14, 2006)

PrettyFatGirl4U said:


> Look chum, everyone else on the board thinks the show was a very positive one except you....your agenda was clearly one of I told you so and you just can't conceed that you have no real cause for the I told you so's.



Actually, I'm not the only person who thought that Rhonda was singled out for attack. Read the posts and see for yourself. 

As for your other argument, you merely proved my point that some people refuse to see the decency of highly opinionated people such as myself. You're all just going to believe what you want to believe, even if you're accusing me of doing the same thing when it comes to my critique of today's broadcast. I've seen shows that were TRULY positive for fat women and admirers...this broadcast came close, but in my view, still fell a little short.

I'd gladly surrender my life if it meant for my ex's well-being, and her and I have been separated for a year now. But you wouldn't know that, because the only things you know are the fetish/fantasy related material you see on these boards. 

And we're not chums.

Evie and Largenlovely ARE friends of mine, however, and thanks to both of you darlings for your participation.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Nov 14, 2006)

I have never heard of this show until these boards- is there going to be a place on the internet I can watch it? Any news on that yet?


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## SamanthaNY (Nov 14, 2006)

Let's stop saying Dream was "attacked" - that really wasn't what happened.


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 14, 2006)

> i just saw it and i hate the fact where they left out the part where my son said if me being thin really made me unhappy he didn't want it



These words come from Rhonda herself in the Paysite Board's answer to the Dr.Keith show (give it time before one pops up in the WLS board). Now when the Dr.Keith people first came to these boards, I DID SAY that something like this could easily happen, because they're ultimately going to tell THEIR story and not YOURS. Anyone still want me to conceed?

Maybe she wasn't "attacked", per say, but she was definitely judged...and she was invited to this taping under the assumption that she would be speaking to an open-minded audience and host. I'm sorry it didn't exactly turn out that way, honestly.


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## SamanthaNY (Nov 14, 2006)

We get it. You told her so. Yay you. 

Enough!


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## Missy9579 (Nov 14, 2006)

I watched the show today as well,,,and I thought that it was pretty nice,,,,the environment didnt seem so "OH NO"ish, but it seemed like people wanted to know and learn. All the ladies looked beautiful,,i did watch the after credits to see if they supplied their clothing and where but either i missed it, or they didnt do a "thanks to" for the clothing.


One thing I would have liked to see though , was someone stand up and say yes, you may eat 2 pieces of pizza for dinner, but i eat 4 or 5. It seemed like several of the girls were very concerned that people may think big girls over eat. And while i know metabilism plays a part in it, I dont think any of got this was from following a balanced 1600 calorie diet. And since the show was about a few wanting to get bigger..i was just surprised that someone didnt say something like that...

All in all, it was a great show, I still love Nikki's wedding pictures and dress....glad they showed them for the world to see as well


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## Upstate New York Foodee (Nov 14, 2006)

I did enjoy the show, but I kind of have to second what BigCutieViolet said. I'm not being a jerk or a buzzkill, but since I post on the Foodee board most of the time I've seen some of BBWDREAMLOVER's posts and they don't really seem consistant with this "I'm gaining weight the healthy way attitude" she had on the show.

I have no problem with people eating what they want to eat, but I wish they were keeping it more real about their eating habits. The I say one thing on Dimensions, another on TV thing turned me off.

To each their own.


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 14, 2006)

BigCutieViolet said:


> All the ladies looked beautiful,,i did watch the after credits to see if they supplied their clothing and where but either i missed it, or they didnt do a "thanks to" for the clothing.



If it helps, Destiny and Desire were shopping at Torrid. There are several locations in the NY/Long Island area, but I've heard complaints that their clothing has taken a more conservative approach, whereas before, you'd find plenty of hot items suitable for a night out on the town.


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## Jon Blaze (Nov 14, 2006)

(Posted on myspace)



There is a forum I visit that advocates the acceptance (and admiration) of large people (If you don't already know).

A huge topic that has been turning heads is a man named Dr. Keith Ablow. He posted on the forum asking people to join him for an episode of his show in New York about plus size women who think they are sexy (as well as a couple of their admirers).

If I would have known, I might have gone myself. I was informed too late though.

I actually didnt know I would be able to see the show until an hour before it was about to come on.

Let me try and give a little synopsis, with some insight here and there.
It began with Destiny and Desire:
Both these girls are good friends that live in Southern Florida. The message they were trying to stress is basically a few thoughts on how they are considered attractive.

I'm familiar with both of them. They post on the forum all the time. 
They show some video clips of them enjoying the Florida beaches, and shopping.... Things that women generally like to do. The message they were putting across was basically that while they may receive some disapproval some society that still doesn't stop them from being confident in their own skin.

Desire later went on to talk about some common myths associated with large women.

Let me see if I can remember them... Society assumes large women are:

Lazy and dirty, the clothes they wear are always unattractive, they are promiscuous, they got the way they are because of overeating, and they are unhealthy. I think I got them right

All of these are obviously untrue, but the foolish usually make these assumptions. Desire brought up a good point with saying that she gets annoyed by the fact that she meets guys that aren't exactly attractive that think they can get her easy because they're doing her a favor. Where's my Katana  ? Just kidding... They do suck for thinking that though.


Second on the list is Nicki: "The Gaining Goddess"
She (just like Desire and Destiny) has an adult website, and she posts on the forum as well. 
She's gone from 140 to her now 420 over the past years. Her ultimate goal (if I'm not mistaken) is around 600 lbs.

This is her second TV appearance. Her first TV appearance was on the VH1 show "Totally Obsessed" in which she was obsessed with gaining weight.

It has become a big part of her lifestyle, and she doesn't intend to change it.
Her segment (in my opinion) was a sort of support system for the message that Desire and Destiny were saying: They are confident, they are proud, and they will not change to conform to society and its judgment of beauty.

Her TV appearances are always very empowering because Nicki continues to stress her point(s) with eloquence, and strength.

Number 3!!!!- Jen from Bodacious Magazine
She's an editor and she models for the magazine as well. Bodacious Magazine claims to be the Playboy equivalent for guys that prefer large women.

Dr. Ablow spoke to hear about what parts they find attractive. She just said the normal things: Rolls, Stretch marks, the curves, et cetera.

Bodacious has found many very confident and beautiful large women. I know of about... 12 of the maybe 40 or so models? Ah well. I've haven't had the money to get my copies, but I'm going to buy them probably when I get my ass out of McHell.

Back on topic: Then we had this couple. The woman doesn't have a site, but she does have a yahoo group she posts pictures on.

The first male guest came on. He said he has an admiration for seeing his significant other eat. 

He also said that he doesn't exactly hate thin women, but he prefers large women. I'm not quite on the same level:

I'm constantly going between either A. Keeping thin women and large women in the same group, but holding large women to a slightly higher caliber. Or B: Separating the two all together, with once again putting large women higher on the pedestal.

Then he started to get a little deep. He said he doesn't care what size she is. All that matters is that he loves her, and if she decided to be a size 5 one day, then he will support her. He is in love with her spirit, but prefers her curvaceous figure.

A message that I approve of greatly: Blessings to him...
Desire came in to support this with saying that when she looks at a guy that she might see as becoming her boyfriend, she gets to know him personally, and expects him approve of her personality, as well as love her for being "fluffy."

Great points yet again.
Next up (Im starting to think Im out of order. I know I got every guest though) is Rhonda and her son Zac (Forgive me if I spelled his name wrong Rhonda).

Rhonda has had an adult website for six years. She now wants to make her 53, 375-pound physique up to 450 as her final goal. Her son is deeply concerned with her health.

On the other foot, she is deeply concerned with Zac smoking. 
Rhonda stressed the point that she is gaining weight in a healthy manner (Which isnt necessarily a walk in the park, but it is achievable). She said that she visits her doctor frequently to make sure her health is in order.

Zac refutes that statement a little by saying what Doctor can say she is healthy. He is disheartened by the fact that he cant walk with his Mom everywhere like he wants to.

Rhonda comes back (Refute Refute Refute) by giving disapproval to his smoking. Dr Ablow jumped in by saying: If your son wanted to get up to four packs a day

She stops him by saying she would just die.
Then comes to the debate:
There is a suggestion that if Zac is to give up smoking, then Rhonda should lose weight. Zac sounded a little shifty with agreeing, but Rhonda said he would have to stop for a period of time before she even began to think about losing weight. 

A really heated debate. Very interesting I must say though.
Then we have H-Black and Hot Chocolate. They are partners. H-Black (Unlike the first male guest) used the term FA (Fat-Admirer) to describe himself. Dr. Ablow made a little joke by saying Im an MD. 

Hot Chocolate is a pear-shaped BBW (Big Beautiful Woman). Most of her weight is focused on the lower half, which some studies may suggest is slightly healthier than the all around large physique that most large women have (Rhonda became the example of this).

H-Black says he loves the way she is, and that wont change. Hot Chocolate brought the point that she has no health problems, and is very fit. Another point I stress:

You can be fat and fit. You can be thin and unhealthy. It all lies within your lifestyle and genetics. Dont be stupid and make the assumption that someones body type determines his or her fitness level. Im relatively thin, and I can barely run three miles. Im working on it, but most people would assume based on my body type that I can run for days. Sorry folks. My heart is weak.

I have a pretty mean tornado kick though. Lets get back on topic

The final part of the show involved: Love Making :wubu: , which led into a summary of the entire show.

The women said they are better in the bed because of points like:
They are uninhibited, enchanting, confident, powerful, and they can do anything someone half their size could. 

I have no doubt they are true. I just havent experienced it yet. One day. One day

Then the summary came with a few questions from audience ranging from confidence, to society views, et cetera. The women in audience in the entire show looked shocked and confused. I noticed some laughing too. You cant knock them. Theyve been brainwashed.

Thats it. Not the best synopsis, but I hope to come back and improve it if I get a copy of it. Thats when I can get deeper.

Now on to the next part of this post: 

Dr. Ablow asked every woman on the show the same question: If he could magically make her a size 8 would they do it? They all said no.

This leads to something Ive been contemplating: The word Fat. The women on the show (as well as some other large women) approve of the term. Most of society, however, uses the term as a term of abhorrence.

I love women of all sizes. I would like it if more women were open to being described that way, but I know I cant go around trying to convert people.

Ive decided to now look at this term as subjective. I feel compelled to first ask someone his or her opinion of the word before I give my honest opinion (whether I consider them to be fat or not). 


Thats what I will try to do from now on.

Do you think Im fat?

In what sense? Whats your opinion of that word? 

END..


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## -Michael- (Nov 15, 2006)

I uploaded the whole episode. It is 97mb and is encoded in DivX with MP3 audio, so make sure you have the codec installed. The audio is a bit crackly, but that's what you get with recording off of an antenna.

Dr. Keith - Fatabulous (right click save as)


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## moonvine (Nov 15, 2006)

blueeyedevie[COLOR="purple" said:


> My opinion on this, varies a bit form Bruce, BUT I have to say, I see it as a somewhat parent as well as the fat girl I am. Having helped raised a child for two years now, I love this teenager very much and he has some sever issues. IF he would come to me and say, "your weight bothers me and I am so worried about you etc., If I were to stop this (his behavior) and prove it to you. Would you then loose some weight so we can do more together." Instantly I would say yes, thinking of my self later. I think why the audience come down so hard on Rhonda is because she stalled. She didn't say yes. She didn't jump on to * the traditional What's best for your child*. [/COLOR]




You can't control other people's behavior like that, though, even if you really really want to. If she had agreed to lose weight, or attempt to, if he stopped smoking, that's a bribe for him to stop smoking. That never works. He has to decide he wants to stop smoking for himself, regardless of what anyone else does or doesn't do, and not as part of a "lets control each other's behavior" pact.


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## moonvine (Nov 15, 2006)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I saw that Sally Jesse show, I think. Didnt they hold a lingerie contest for all the big women ? They also had a guy into body-building on there talking about how much he loves big women. That was a good show and was very respectful- didnt mock anyone, if Im remembering correctly. Sally always had class, imo.
> 
> I do remember a show on Geraldo about a big women's escort service. I also recall him talking to one big lady about her bf/date "feeding" her. The final analysis on that part (I dont recall it being referred to as feederism, the lady just explained what she did with her dates) was that a man pressing for a woman's weight to be bigger is as controlling as a man pressing for a woman's weight to be lower.
> (I personally dont care if women like to do feederism if they are happy with it- because if that is what they really want then that's two consenting adults and none of my business. Just a disclaimer of my own opinion)
> ...




Yes, that was the Sally Jesse Raphael show I'm referring to. It is sad that I still remember it after all these years. I watched it in my dorm room..heh.

I don't remember a Donahue show specifically dealing with fat, though I know there were some - I believe Conrad was a guest. I don't remember him ever, ever treating *anyone* with less than 100% respect, though. He rules.


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## EtobicokeFA (Nov 15, 2006)

I did enjoy the show very much. It went a long way to being postive. And, I would like to thank Desire and Nikki and the other girls for going on and give size acceptance great representation. And, show the world that being fat and being obese is not always the same thing. I specially like it when they all talk about how being fat was a choice. One that they are happy with. Even though alot of the audience didn't seem to be able to get their head around it.

However, I agree that they seemed to have waited until Rhonda's segment to bring out the big guns. By comparing being fat to smoking and then comparing it to being anorexic. I didn't like the fact the Bruce treated the show as an intervention, for his mother. He couldn't seem to see that his mother was happy.

Of course, being a doctor, Keith reminded the audience that in his opinion fat and obesity are the same thing. 

All in all, it was a postive show for size acceptance.


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## Jon Blaze (Nov 15, 2006)

-Michael- said:


> I uploaded the whole episode. It is 97mb and is encoded in DivX with MP3 audio, so make sure you have the codec installed. The audio is a bit crackly, but that's what you get with recording off of an antenna.
> 
> Dr. Keith - Fatabulous (right click save as)



O yea! You get reps for that!


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## Littleghost (Nov 15, 2006)

UncannyBruceman said:


> I gotta disagree. I've seen the BBW community handled with more respect on Donahue, Geraldo, Maury, and several other talk shows in the early 90's. In fact, anyone who knows their history (or simply knows the woman) will recognize one of the supporters in the audience. Remember the redhaired lady with the glasses who inquired about BODacious? That's none other than Nancy Goddess, who made several appearances in calendars and TV shows a little over ten years ago, and has also been running the Goddesses BBW dance party in NYC for 20 years.


Nancy was on and I missed it?? $#*@&!!!!.......

I'm gonna go console myself, hold my calls.
--Littleghost


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## moonvine (Nov 15, 2006)

EtobicokeFA said:


> I did enjoy the show very much. It went a long way to being postive. And, I would like to thank Desire and Nikki and the other girls for going on and give size acceptance great representation. And, show the world that being fat and being obese is not always the same thing. I specially like it when they all talk about how being fat was a choice. One that they are happy with. Even though alot of the audience didn't seem to be able to get their head around it.
> 
> However, I agree that they seemed to have waited until Rhonda's segment to bring out the big guns. By comparing being fat to smoking and then comparing it to being anorexic. I didn't like the fact the Bruce treated the show as an intervention, for his mother. He couldn't seem to see that his mother was happy.
> 
> ...



In my opinion, "obesity" is just a medically pejorative term for "fat". They *are* the same thing.

Still have not seen the show, but I would have preferred them to also show women for whom being fat was *not* a choice, as I believe that body size (outside of about a 20-30 pound range) is not a choice for most of us, or my choice would be a size 6. Reality is a size 26, though, and I accept that.


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## lipmixgirl (Nov 15, 2006)

erg, i missed it... does anyone have a copy to lend me? POSTAGE PAID?!?!?!?

thanks!


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## moonvine (Nov 15, 2006)

lipmixgirl said:


> erg, i missed it... does anyone have a copy to lend me? POSTAGE PAID?!?!?!?
> 
> thanks!



There have been a couple links to uploaded copies, but they might be in one of the other threads about this show.


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 15, 2006)

Littleghost said:


> Nancy was on and I missed it?? $#*@&!!!!.......
> 
> I'm gonna go console myself, hold my calls.
> --Littleghost



She wasn't actually on the panel, just so you know. She was in the front row, and asked Jennifer how long BODacious had been in production. I'm sure she might have gotten together with the guests after the show, but nothing pertaining to her previous modeling career or BBW dance parties in NYC was mentioned on the show. Kinda sad, really, you'd think that Dr.Keith would allow her to promote it if this was supposed to be a size positive taping. Anyone who didn't know better would think she was just an interested member of the audience. I suppose that's better than nothing, but...


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 15, 2006)

EtobicokeFA said:


> However, I agree that they seemed to have waited until Rhonda's segment to bring out the big guns. By comparing being fat to smoking and then comparing it to being anorexic. I didn't like the fact the Bruce treated the show as an intervention, for his mother. He couldn't seem to see that his mother was happy.



You mean ZAK? Because *I* saw how happy his mom was...and I also saw that the show still had a hidden agenda. The chain is as good as its weakest link. Not to say that Rhonda is weak in mind or in spirit, but judging her on stage??? Come on, now...what the fuck is FATabulous about THAT?


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## SamanthaNY (Nov 15, 2006)




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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 15, 2006)

Very funny


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Nov 15, 2006)

It was entertaining. I sort of felt sorry for Zak; it has to be traumatic thinking your mother's killing herself, even if the reason isn't entirely valid. Didn't really fit into the theme of the show, which in and of itself was pretty fun. I'm disappointed at the lack of cat fights.


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## shadowmaker87 (Nov 15, 2006)

wanted to say i watched that show n was amazed to c bbws showing their figures off! i didnt even know it was on , i watchin a taped show frm tivo (directv) must say they all looked good! .. my congrats to those bbws n the men who love them like me!


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## blueeyedevie (Nov 15, 2006)

> You can't control other people's behavior like that, though, even if you really really want to. If she had agreed to lose weight, or attempt to, if he stopped smoking, that's a bribe for him to stop smoking. That never works. He has to decide he wants to stop smoking for himself, regardless of what anyone else does or doesn't do, and not as part of a "lets control each other's behavior" pact.



I didn't say I agreed with it... I was stating that I think *parents in the audience* was reacting to the fact of *the stall* more so to the fact it was a fat /smoking topic. I would bargain yes, With my 15 year old nephew if he proved him self first. THATS MY CHOICE!! 

In fact, I thought the hole thing was very stupid to compare being fat to smoking. I had no idea being fat was a addictive basically drug! When you become fat are can become fat in many dirffrent ways. I suppose with gaining on purpose it could be looked at as addictive but ... sports related people put weight on all the time , to bulk up for events DO THEY NOT?? DOES any one look at them if there insane? LOOK at actors they gain weight for roles all the time , no one tells them any thing. So I just think if you want to jump on someone or something you can always find it, BUT Basically it wasn't there to be jumped on..


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 15, 2006)

blueeyedevie said:


> I suppose with gaining on purpose it could be looked at as addictive but ... sports related people put weight on all the time , to bulk up for events DO THEY NOT?? DOES any one look at them if there insane? LOOK at actors they gain weight for roles all the time , no one tells them any thing.



Ah yes, my dear Evie, but sports figures and celebrities are considered as gods in this country, therefore, it's automatically assumed that they have the power to change their physical appearance at the touch of a button. We are but mere mortals, and any of us who carry some extra poundage are seen as weak and helpless creatures.

Another interesting point that I'll add to your argument, though, is that these same sports figures are the same people who abuse steroids to enhance their performance and physical appearance. The dangers of steroid abuse FAR overshadow the health risks of being fat. In fact, you're less likely to encounter a heart attack at over 500lbs than you would if you were a steroid user. Look at Arnold Shwartzenegger's heart condition and the many premature deaths in the pro wrestling world. All of them are linked to steroid abuse.

Random drug tests in the locker rooms seem to have somewhat of a hold over steroid abuse, but the use of the substance still makes it easy for both men AND women to win bodybuilding competitions and establish big money modeling careers...all while fat people still suffer size discrimination within their respective work environments.

I'd love to see Dr.Keith do a show on THAT...it'd be an interesting follow-up/counterpoint to yesterday's broadcast.


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## DirtyLittleDiva (Nov 15, 2006)

Actually she did mention who she was and stuff...but they cut it out at the end. I thought that kinda sucked, lol. And she did go back and meet us in the back after the show. She is a very nice person!



UncannyBruceman said:


> She wasn't actually on the panel, just so you know. She was in the front row, and asked Jennifer how long BODacious had been in production. I'm sure she might have gotten together with the guests after the show, but nothing pertaining to her previous modeling career or BBW dance parties in NYC was mentioned on the show. Kinda sad, really, you'd think that Dr.Keith would allow her to promote it if this was supposed to be a size positive taping. Anyone who didn't know better would think she was just an interested member of the audience. I suppose that's better than nothing, but...


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## moonvine (Nov 15, 2006)

UncannyBruceman said:


> Another interesting point that I'll add to your argument, though, is that these same sports figures are the same people who abuse steroids to enhance their performance and physical appearance. The dangers of steroid abuse FAR overshadow the health risks of being fat. In fact, you're less likely to encounter a heart attack at over 500lbs than you would if you were a steroid user. Look at Arnold Shwartzenegger's heart condition and the many premature deaths in the pro wrestling world. All of them are linked to steroid abuse.
> 
> Random drug tests in the locker rooms seem to have somewhat of a hold over steroid abuse, but the use of the substance still makes it easy for both men AND women to win bodybuilding competitions and establish big money modeling careers...all while fat people still suffer size discrimination within their respective work environments.
> 
> I'd love to see Dr.Keith do a show on THAT...it'd be an interesting follow-up/counterpoint to yesterday's broadcast.



OT, but that steroids are super scary. I once dated a guy who had played football at OU during the early 80's. By the late 90's quite a few (statistically way out of proportion to what should be in that age group) of his teammates were dead. He attributed it to steroid use.


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 15, 2006)

DirtyLittleDiva said:


> Actually she did mention who she was and stuff...but they cut it out at the end. I thought that kinda sucked, lol. And she did go back and meet us in the back after the show. She is a very nice person!



Nancy is an absolute darling! You can see her BCAT show on Wednesdays at midnight eastern time if you follow the links on http://www.goddessbbw.com

And to moonvine, yeah, your friend was right to blame steroids on the deaths of his teamates. Steroids do seem a little off-topic for this particular thread, but the point is that many people abuse steroids to establish their fake physiques are they're still praised and allowed to succeed in certain careers while fat people face discrimination everywhere. It's a sub-topic, if anything, and it definitely deserves a mention whether it's in here or someplace else.


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## GWARrior (Nov 15, 2006)

As much as I enjoyed listening to the women on the show, I dont think the whole thing came off as positive. I pretty much wanted to punch every person in the audience. they all looked like *OMG FAT PEOPLE WHO ENJOY FAT!!!* :blink: :doh: 

and then there were the EEWWs and WTFs and gasps. very annoying


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## metalheadFA (Nov 15, 2006)

Being from Britain I havent seen it but the comments on the website are of the usual kindly guilt! It seems you'll never educate the ignorant!


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## -X- (Nov 15, 2006)

-Michael- said:


> I uploaded the whole episode. It is 97mb and is encoded in DivX with MP3 audio, so make sure you have the codec installed. The audio is a bit crackly, but that's what you get with recording off of an antenna.
> 
> Dr. Keith - Fatabulous (right click save as)



_Major props go to you._





UncannyBruceman said:


> She wasn't actually on the panel, just so you know. She was in the front row, and asked Jennifer how long BODacious had been in production. I'm sure she might have gotten together with the guests after the show, but nothing pertaining to her previous modeling career or BBW dance parties in NYC was mentioned on the show. Kinda sad, really, you'd think that Dr.Keith would allow her to promote it if this was supposed to be a size positive taping. Anyone who didn't know better would think she was just an interested member of the audience. I suppose that's better than nothing, but...



_If she wanted to promote herself, she could have either worked with the producers or said so herself while she was speaking about BODacious magazine. Aside from that, the show I feel was good, but yeah it had its *parts*. It wasnt horrible, probably 90-95% positive to me at least.

That whole segment with Rhonda *(to me)* was a mess though, and did kind of affect the mood of the show. While her son jumped on her case, and she jumped on his, it didnt seem as if she was as prepared to handle it as many have said before. Maybe if she had given more time to talk about it, or prepared herself for the 'conflict' that she probably knew was going to happen. I mean, her son was there so even if it wasnt planned, she should have been ready for him better.

All of the other models did well I believe, as well as the 2 couples. I think Nikki's segment was done very well, as well as Destiny&Desire's shopping trip. The BODacious magazine producer (I think?) had shown a great part in our community as well, showing that its just a playboyish-type magazine with bigger women in it. That couple that came on with the 'cupcakes' were nice, and the fact that he said it was her 'soul', no matter what she had decided to do to her outside appearance, is why he loved her. H-black and Hot chocolate had also shown how much society had been corrupted. H-black liking HC's 'body shape', is the same as any person liking a thin woman with big breast or big behinds. And how HC cut Dr. Keith off by saying that she IS physically fit, just because she's fat doesnt mean that she's lazy/not working out, was a good thing too. All in all, even though there was some slight negativity there, it was a great representation for the community, However obviously, everyone will probably focus the show solely on Rhonda's segment which most people have already within our group._


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## mossystate (Nov 15, 2006)

Friggin speakers on my computer are not working, so if anyone has a copy to send, please get in touch...thanky*S*

I am curious, as I do not know some of the names thrown about out here.Were all the women on this panel,paysite women, or women who have posed in magazines..etc.Just wondering if any 'janes' on the street were sitting up there.*S*


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## panhype (Nov 15, 2006)

Not exactly 'janes' from the street. They're all paysite models except JiggliJacki (who used the name Kristin for tv purposes) - she has a yahoogroup.




mossystate said:


> Friggin speakers on my computer are not working, so if anyone has a copy to send, please get in touch...thanky*S*
> 
> I am curious, as I do not know some of the names thrown about out here.Were all the women on this panel,paysite women, or women who have posed in magazines..etc.Just wondering if any 'janes' on the street were sitting up there.*S*


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## nj22feeder (Nov 15, 2006)

Hey Im dan, Kristin's boyfriend, n i would just like to say i liked the way the show turned out, but i wish they would not have cut off my many fat acceptance comments. I am just a normal guy just like anyone else, n my girl just happens to be thick. Im glad we were able to go on the show and represent normal people which like this type of thing. if anyone has comments, please leave them here, or feel free to drop me a line on my myspace or aim.


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## BBWDesire (Nov 15, 2006)

I'd like to thank everyone on behalf of myself and Destiny(as we now all know she is my sister) who posted on this subject. We really enjoyed appearing on the show. We apologize if some people felt that our appearance was not fat positive and although we don't find the need to defend ourselves, we do feel that we portrayed the typical BBW. We are very happy with the way the show portrayed us, everyone from the producers to Dr. Keith himself were very gracious. Dr Keith complimented us on our confidence and our appearances. We hope our appearing on the show shed some light on the daily lives of BBW's around the nation. We have since been contacted by other television shows and publications to discuss the BBW lifestyle. We are looking forward to continuing our work to make plus size people accepted. If this TV show changed even one person's view on bigger society than we feel we did our job as plus size women. 
We thank everyone again for their support.


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 16, 2006)

BBWDesire said:


> We apologize if some people felt that our appearance was not fat positive and although we don't find the need to defend ourselves, we do feel that we portrayed the typical BBW.



No apology is necessary, because you and your sister were phenomenal in your appearance and your advocation of size acceptance. If this show wasn't entirely positive (which we all know I believe to be true), it's the fault of Dr.Keith and his team...NOT YOURS.

My thanks and congratulations go to you and your sister, regardless of how I think the show's conclusion turned out.


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## shadowmaker87 (Nov 16, 2006)

who cares on what other ppl think ... i think that u n ur sis was great! n good lookin!


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## Jon Blaze (Nov 16, 2006)

nj22feeder said:


> Hey Im dan, Kristin's boyfriend, n i would just like to say i liked the way the show turned out, but i wish they would not have cut off my many fat acceptance comments. I am just a normal guy just like anyone else, n my girl just happens to be thick. Im glad we were able to go on the show and represent normal people which like this type of thing. if anyone has comments, please leave them here, or feel free to drop me a line on my myspace or aim.




I'm glad you were on there. You made some good points (Especially for us guys that some people wouldn't consider "FAs"), and you two make a great couple.


Time to spread some more reps


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## Jon Blaze (Nov 16, 2006)

BBWDesire said:


> I'd like to thank everyone on behalf of myself and Destiny(as we now all know she is my sister) who posted on this subject. We really enjoyed appearing on the show. We apologize if some people felt that our appearance was not fat positive and although we don't find the need to defend ourselves, we do feel that we portrayed the typical BBW. We are very happy with the way the show portrayed us, everyone from the producers to Dr. Keith himself were very gracious. Dr Keith complimented us on our confidence and our appearances. We hope our appearing on the show shed some light on the daily lives of BBW's around the nation. We have since been contacted by other television shows and publications to discuss the BBW lifestyle. We are looking forward to continuing our work to make plus size people accepted. If this TV show changed even one person's view on bigger society than we feel we did our job as plus size women.
> We thank everyone again for their support.




There's the first error in my synopsis. I said you were friends instead of sisters... 

Frickin' idiot :doh: !!

I think you did a splendid job. You two made an example for plus size women out there that I think is really positive (and extremely confident... which is great). I'm sure there are at least a couple thousand or so people that you gave a new outlook on the subject.

So....
HEYYY!!! WAY TO GO!!! :bow:


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 16, 2006)

nj22feeder said:


> Hey Im dan, Kristin's boyfriend, n i would just like to say i liked the way the show turned out, but i wish they would not have cut off my many fat acceptance comments.



Don't we all...

Still, though...even the edited version of your comments spoke many volumes for guys like us. Thank you very much for your participation and I hope to see more of you and Kristin here in Dimensions.


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## NYEmtEsq (Nov 16, 2006)

BBWDesire said:


> I'd like to thank everyone on behalf of myself and Destiny(as we now all know she is my sister) who posted on this subject. We really enjoyed appearing on the show. We apologize if some people felt that our appearance was not fat positive and although we don't find the need to defend ourselves, we do feel that we portrayed the typical BBW. We are very happy with the way the show portrayed us, everyone from the producers to Dr. Keith himself were very gracious. Dr Keith complimented us on our confidence and our appearances. We hope our appearing on the show shed some light on the daily lives of BBW's around the nation. We have since been contacted by other television shows and publications to discuss the BBW lifestyle. We are looking forward to continuing our work to make plus size people accepted. If this TV show changed even one person's view on bigger society than we feel we did our job as plus size women.
> We thank everyone again for their support.



Just want to echo everyone's sentiments that it was a great show, and not the circus many of us feared it could be. However, I would just add that I think you and your sister should invest in a better digital camera. Based on what I saw on TV, that camera you two are using now doesn't do either one of you any justice.


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## Webmaster (Nov 16, 2006)

moonvine said:


> Yes, that was the Sally Jesse Raphael show I'm referring to. It is sad that I still remember it after all these years. I watched it in my dorm room..heh.
> 
> I don't remember a Donahue show specifically dealing with fat, though I know there were some - I believe Conrad was a guest. I don't remember him ever, ever treating *anyone* with less than 100% respect, though. He rules.



I remember that Donahue show. In the mid 80s to early 90s I was on several dozen TV shows, including all the big ones. Donahue stands out as the one who clearly cared the most. I still have a picture of him and I in the Green Room. He was really the only one who apparently took things seriously enough to actually come to the Green Room and talk to the guests beforehand. And not just say hi, but actually talk.

Back in the early days of talk shows, or one might say the glory days, the shows were meticulously planned and researched. A project manager would call months in advance, and then there'd be a constant back and forth between project manager and guests, for many weeks. The plan was discussed, then once on the show, recapped. Most shows were open in what they wanted to get across, and encouraged guests to voice opposing opinions without being prompted.

As a result, I think we did some good shows in the early days. The key is to dictate the agenda as much as possible. The show wants ratings, so if the guests eloquently argue their points, even if they totally differ from the planned flow of the show, that is just fine with the show. Knowing that, we managed to get quite a bit of good information on size acceptance across in those early shows. I wish I could post my memories from a 1986 appearance on the Sally Jessy show, but it's on my main PC that just blew a disk. I also remember how us TV veterans often ambushed and totally neutralized so-called experts the show had invited to present the counter points, usually pro some diet or plugging some book.

At some point the shows descended to a level where participation no longer seemed useful and productive, and so we withdrew. Unfortunately, they always find others willing to participate, and there's a danger in that. Shows can be awfully manipulative, and as a guest you're never more than a few worlds away from blowing it totally. On TV, a few good words can do a lot of good and leave a lasting impression. A few bad ones can be disastrous.

These days, I get fairly regular inquiries from shows about being a guest. I always respectfully decline, tell them they may post invitations on the Dimensions boards, but, depending on the nature of the show, also expect some rather negative reactions, based on prior abuse of our community by the media. The representatives of each will, of course, emphatically state how different their show is, and that they truly have your interests at heart.

I didn't see the Dr. Ablow show. I rarely watch TV these days. But I almost feel like I should post an "Appearing on TV talk shows 101" somewhere.


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## xoxoHOTCHOCOLATExoxo (Nov 16, 2006)

Hey Forum im new here and just wanted to introduce myself. My name is
HOTCHOCOLATE im the manager of B.B.E and also a web model on that 
website. I also appeared on the DR.KEITH SHOW with the OWNER/BBW PHOTOGRAPHER HBLACK. I was told about the forum by DAVID(a member here) who posted in one of my yahoo groups to let me know about the forum (thanks). Well first let me say it was a pleasure meeting the other ladies and FA,S on the panel. I have been reading the comments on the board
and it,s very diverse, First off The DR.KEITH SHOW was about being FATABULOUS which i feel in my opinion that everyone on the panel was BEAUTIFUL and extremely SEXY,CONFIDENT. We wanted to portray being (FAT) as a positive and not a negitive. Did we change peoples minds on our /ssbbw/bbw/bhm community NO!!! but what we were there for is to show the entire world that there are "FAT ACCEPTANCE COMMUNITIES ONLINE" and if you need to find us where to look. Do we really care about the faces and sigh,s from the (pro fat) audience NO because we were there for the FA,S,BBW,S SSBBW and the people who support our movement. Hey if you ask me the sighing woman in the audience probably has a husband or boyfriend who has subscribed to 1 or all of our PAYSITES that,s why they were there ALONE. THANKS FORUM HOTCHOCOLATE BBE MGR....


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## biggerbottoms (Nov 16, 2006)

Hey wasup peeps This is H.Black .. the show was great!! the bottom line is you can be big, healthy and still be considered to be very sexy depending on how you carry your self as a big person. Ladies if you are going to lose weight lose weight because you want to, or because you want to better your health for what ever reason, not because you can't get a date or because you want to fit in, cause who says you don't fit in. 

Every body can't be skinny out here it's just not going to happen like that and not every one is attracted to a skinny person. 

Look at the world through your own eyes instead of looking at the world through other peoples eyes who say you have to physically be a certain way in society.


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## Jon Blaze (Nov 16, 2006)

biggerbottoms said:


> Hey wasup peeps This is H.Black .. the show was great!! the bottom line is you can be big, healthy and still be considered to be very sexy depending on how you carry your self as a big person. Ladies if you are going to lose weight lose weight because you want to, or because you want to better your health for what ever reason, not because you can't get a date or because you want to fit in, cause who says you don't fit in.
> 
> Every body can't be skinny out here it's just not going to happen like that and not every one is attracted to a skinny person.
> 
> Look at the world through your own eyes instead of looking at the world through other peoples eyes who say you have to physically be a certain way in society.


Good to see you here too!! I'm glad all of you guys decided to start posting on here. Great points yet again!!


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## Tina (Nov 16, 2006)

Webmaster said:


> I didn't see the Dr. Ablow show. I rarely watch TV these days. But I almost feel like I should post an "Appearing on TV talk shows 101" somewhere.



I think that would be a great idea, frankly. 

I have a vague recollection of seeing you and Ruby and many of the other activists on Donahue back when. It was the first time I had seen anything like it and it was a real eye-opener. I liked Donahue, and I liked Springer way back when, too. Years and years ago, he had a much more serious show, but that one quickly devolved, where at least Phil Donahue was serious for a good while. Too bad so many of them ended up pandering to the lowest (_very_) common denominator.


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 16, 2006)

Tina said:


> I have a vague recollection of seeing you and Ruby and many of the other activists on Donahue back when. It was the first time I had seen anything like it and it was a real eye-opener. I liked Donahue, and I liked Springer way back when, too. Years and years ago, he had a much more serious show, but that one quickly devolved, where at least Phil Donahue was serious for a good while. Too bad so many of them ended up pandering to the lowest (_very_) common denominator.



Those truly were the glory days of talk shows and those were the days when the BBW community was truly presented in a 100% positive light. These days, with so many talk shows mutilating the truth just to build a decent 50 minute soap opera storyline, it's very difficult for people from our community to really get their message out. It's for this reason, I think, that so many longtime members of the Dimensions family shy away from participating.


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## Tina (Nov 16, 2006)

You're probably correct. I'm not sure fat was always presented in the best light, but more that people were more polite back then, and hadn't been encouraged by the Springer/Carnie crowd to forget their manners and be as nasty as they wanna be to guests. I think the decorum of the host sets the tone for the decorum of the guests, and Phil was a class act.


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 16, 2006)

Tina said:


> people were more polite back then, and hadn't been encouraged by the Springer/Carnie crowd to forget their manners and be as nasty as they wanna be to guests. I think the decorum of the host sets the tone for the decorum of the guests, and Phil was a class act.



Dead on, Tina! I vividly remember one particular episode of Donahue in which he interviewed Teighlor, Ambrosia, and a gorgeous young 500lb feedee (not a model) was on the same show. The audience listened to every word they said without raising a single eyebrow or snickering to their neighbor. I saw a LOT of that on Dr.Keith, and I was offended. Donahue's audience encouraged the three women, and they laughed not AT them, but WITH them. We're never going to see those days again, because ultimately, everyone wants some kind of shock value on their program. Hence, any invitation I get for one of these shows is promptly deleted.


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## moonvine (Nov 16, 2006)

I really, really miss Donohue. I remember vividly one particular episode where all the guests appeared stark naked (with pixelation of course) - it was some kind of controversial thing in the late 80s/early 90's where they were traveling as some sort of living art exhibit.

Everyone was treated really respectfully and the audience wasn't allowed to get out of control. Can you imagine that happening today?


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 16, 2006)

I remember one where he had on a group of strippers who were all over 65 years old. Put that in front of a 21st century audience and I guaruntee you that there's gonna be some guy throwing his arms up in the air yelling out "oh HHEEELLLLL nnnoooo!!!"


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## gangstadawg (Nov 16, 2006)

xoxoHOTCHOCOLATExoxo said:


> Hey Forum im new here and just wanted to introduce myself. My name is
> HOTCHOCOLATE im the manager of B.B.E and also a web model on that
> website. I also appeared on the DR.KEITH SHOW with the OWNER/BBW PHOTOGRAPHER HBLACK. I was told about the forum by DAVID(a member here) who posted in one of my yahoo groups to let me know about the forum (thanks). Well first let me say it was a pleasure meeting the other ladies and FA,S on the panel. I have been reading the comments on the board
> and it,s very diverse, First off The DR.KEITH SHOW was about being FATABULOUS which i feel in my opinion that everyone on the panel was BEAUTIFUL and extremely SEXY,CONFIDENT. We wanted to portray being (FAT) as a positive and not a negitive. Did we change peoples minds on our /ssbbw/bbw/bhm community NO!!! but what we were there for is to show the entire world that there are "FAT ACCEPTANCE COMMUNITIES ONLINE" and if you need to find us where to look. Do we really care about the faces and sigh,s from the (pro fat) audience NO because we were there for the FA,S,BBW,S SSBBW and the people who support our movement. Hey if you ask me the sighing woman in the audience probably has a husband or boyfriend who has subscribed to 1 or all of our PAYSITES that,s why they were there ALONE. THANKS FORUM HOTCHOCOLATE BBE MGR....


im david. well thats actually a back up email that i havent changed. my friend was using it as an account to spy on his girlfriend or something to see if she was cheating on him. but he said i could have it as secondary. any ways my name isnt david it meontre (just call me trey) and the pic in that account isnt mine. any ways its nice meeting you. ill post at your yahoo group under my real account.


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## Tina (Nov 16, 2006)

UncannyBruceman said:


> I remember one where he had on a group of strippers who were all over 65 years old. Put that in front of a 21st century audience and I guaruntee you that there's gonna be some guy throwing his arms up in the air yelling out "oh HHEEELLLLL nnnoooo!!!"


Yeah, all too true. I think I _vaguely_ remember seeing that one. And the one with naked people. 

This might be an unpopular stance, but I think it's important to remember that in most cases, talk shows are really the modern day freak show. Now, I'm not putting it down when I say that, because I have to tell you, I LOVE freak shows, and in many ways that might be why I get a kick out of being stared at by people who are incredulous over my size (if you're gonna dig the freak show, you should be willing to be a part of it and give back, is my motto...  ). But, the host is the huckster/barker, and the audience is there to be entertained and to react, so it's no surprise, eh? 

I was happy with many of Dr. Keith's audience members, as the ones who seemed mature didn't really make fun; it was the immature children who did, and who will always be able to be counted on to do so, no matter what.


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## Chimpi (Nov 17, 2006)

Erin and I watched the show last night from the link Michael posted *here*.

First of all, I commend all of the women very much for appearing on the show, and to the gentlemen as well. Everyone did a very good job indeed. And I thought it was particularly great when Nikki was asked "What can you do, as a big girl, for me in bed?" and she admirably said "Come here and I'll show you."  *shrugs*

To quote Ruby from another thread on this subject matter:


Ruby Ripples[/B said:


> I felt it was awful how she (*Rhonda*) was picked on in that way for wanting to gain. She said she has set her sights on 75lbs more, and Nikki said she has another 200 in sight. Nikki I believe has kids too, and very much younger, yet not a word was said about that. It was just... bizarre. Just interested that Rhonda was picked on when her son is grown up and Rhonda has smaller weight goals.



I noticed that at the time of viewing as well. Quite odd, but afterall, it is a TV show. I suppose all shows have to have some dramatic entertainment aspect, and the fact that a woman wanted to gain more weight had a son who did not want her to gain more weight is much more representable when that son can speak on his own behalf. It was apparent that, she is who she is, and has her mind set on her goal, and is very aware of the consequences (who knows the risks more than fat people themselves anyway?), but yet has a desire to be a certain size.

Afterall, there are consequences with *everything*.
Driving a car.
Riding a motorcycle (... which I did not find a good analogy for Dr. Keith to use).
Gaining weight at a large size to be even larger.
Weight loss surgery.
Breast implants.
Plugging in an electronic device.

Through all walks of life, there can be consequences for everything, and as we all know, weight gain certainly has its consequences, but it certainly seems to matter more to the public than the fact that getting weight loss surgery can be harmful as well. *shrugs*

I thought it was very, very disrespectful to Rhonda to question her as he did, and would not want to be put in that situation myself. It was absolutely wrong, and certainly not fair, to ask "If he quits smoking, will you lose weight?" Not to mention the fact that she was asked *numerous* times that question, even when her son was off the stage, and her segment was over. I did, specifically, love how she said "If he really makes an effort to quite for a certain period of time, I will consider *stopping.*" Meaning, stopping gaining weight. I loved it! Kudos to Rhonda especially for going under the heat and maintaining her stamina.

I also appreciated how many times it was said that "It is a preference", and certainly not just a fetish. Very well put on that subject.

However, as a whole, I agree very much with the Bruceman, in that, it's goal was to be open-minded about the whole thing, but not quite achieving that completely. 
That is all. *shrugs*

*EDIT:* Now, to all who watched the show, and to that person who I am questioning the identity. There was a young lady near the front in a black and white designed dress, who has brown hair and black framed glasses. Does anybody have any idea who she was? She looked incredibly familiar, and am being torn that I cannot put a name to the face. Any ideas? Bueller? Bueller?


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## EtobicokeFA (Nov 17, 2006)

moonvine said:


> In my opinion, "obesity" is just a medically pejorative term for "fat". They *are* the same thing.
> 
> Still have not seen the show, but I would have preferred them to also show women for whom being fat was *not* a choice, as I believe that body size (outside of about a 20-30 pound range) is not a choice for most of us, or my choice would be a size 6. Reality is a size 26, though, and I accept that.



Actually obesity was original just about unhealthy lifestyle, it only resently that obesity and fat where made interchangeable. 

Matter of fact, I had a long argueement with my doctor over SA, until we both until he point he informed me that his definition of obesity didn't automaticly include fat people, that have healthy lifestyles.


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## ScreamingChicken (Nov 17, 2006)

Chimpi said:


> *EDIT:* Now, to all who watched the show, and to that person who I am questioning the identity. There was a young lady near the front in a black and white designed dress, who has brown hair and black framed glasses. Does anybody have any idea who she was? She looked incredibly familiar, and am being torn that I cannot put a name to the face. Any ideas? Bueller? Bueller?


I believe she was IDed as Nancy Goddess.


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## UncannyBruceman (Nov 17, 2006)

Chimpi said:


> I also appreciated how many times it was said that "It is a preference", and certainly not just a fetish. Very well put on that subject.



Hearing this statement and thinking back, maybe I SHOULD have done the show after all. Granted, you would have heard a lot of bleeps on the edited broadcast, but to me, being an FA is NOT a preference, but rather, an orientation. Ultimately, though, I don't think my viewpoints would have changed the direction of the show. As was said many times over in various threads, the days of the open-minded, respectful talk show audience are long over. They're going to broadcast whatever they want, and my comments probably would have been conveniently edited out...just like Dan's.


And yes, that was Nancy Goddess of http://www.goddessbbw.com


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## Chimpi (Nov 17, 2006)

Chimpi said:


> *EDIT:* Now, to all who watched the show, and to that person who I am questioning the identity. There was a young lady near the front in a *black and white designed dress*, who has *brown hair and black framed glasses.* Does anybody have any idea who she was? She looked incredibly familiar, and am being torn that I cannot put a name to the face. Any ideas? Bueller? Bueller?



Not red hair. Not Nancy Goddess.

*EDIT:* Furthermore, she appears at _about_ 4:48 (minutes:seconds) into the full episode, when Desire is talking about having had to gain weight because she was too small to be in the plus size modelling business. I could not get a screen capture. She (woman in question) has a big smile on her face.


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## panhype (Nov 17, 2006)

My pleasure to help you out, Chimpi 

View attachment dr keith.jpg


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## Chimpi (Nov 17, 2006)

Yep. Quite a familiar face. Thank you panhype.


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## Tina (Nov 18, 2006)

At first I thought it was activistfatgirl, but now I can see that it's not. But she is very cute like afg is.


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## LoveBHMS (Nov 18, 2006)

That is so funny! I thought it was AFG too.


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## mossystate (Nov 18, 2006)

Too funny..she looks like maybe 3 or 4 women who come to Dims(boards and/or chat....heh


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## activistfatgirl (Nov 18, 2006)

C'mon you guys, I don't dress that well.


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## jigglijaque (Nov 20, 2006)

This is my response to the dr. keith show. i was on it, i'm "kristin". I thought the show did more of a justice, than a hinderance for fat acceptance. 
The women chosen to be on the show, displayed courage, confidence, and we all had an air about ourselves that (shut up many haters). We were all in control of what we disclosed to the producers of the show, that in turn they wrote their questions, accordingly. Rhonda did not have to bring Zack on the show, she could've chosen another man, similiar to Dan, or Mr. H. She also brought up the parallel of his smoking. If that was never said, than maybe, she wouldn't have felt (attacked) as she did, once the taping was over. 
All in all, I think we did a great job "teaching" others about this closeted fetish. Dan may have said he came out of the "fat closet", that's my quote. I came out the that same closet a few years ago. More people in this community need to be able to do the same and not give a flying fuck what their freinds or family thinks about their preference. Our lives would all be a bit more mellow and relaxed if we were judged by our personalities, rather our waistlines. Peace out! Jaque


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## Jon Blaze (Nov 21, 2006)

jigglijaque said:


> This is my response to the dr. keith show. i was on it, i'm "kristin". I thought the show did more of a justice, than a hinderance for fat acceptance.
> The women chosen to be on the show, displayed courage, confidence, and we all had an air about ourselves that (shut up many haters). We were all in control of what we disclosed to the producers of the show, that in turn they wrote their questions, accordingly. Rhonda did not have to bring Zack on the show, she could've chosen another man, similiar to Dan, or Mr. H. She also brought up the parallel of his smoking. If that was never said, than maybe, she wouldn't have felt (attacked) as she did, once the taping was over.
> All in all, I think we did a great job "teaching" others about this closeted fetish. Dan may have said he came out of the "fat closet", that's my quote. I came out the that same closet a few years ago. More people in this community need to be able to do the same and not give a flying fuck what their freinds or family thinks about their preference. Our lives would all be a bit more mellow and relaxed if we were judged by our personalities, rather our waistlines. Peace out! Jaque




Thanks for coming. The only thing I wish you wouldn't have said is the thing about this being a "Fetish." Other than that..
You did a great job, and I hope you and Dan are doing well.


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## jigglijaque (Nov 27, 2006)

mr blaze.......... mayb u have to see the show again, watching my segment, closely. my "fetish" refers to my pillow stuffing and being a female fa , only interested in big girls. i think that qualifies as a fetish.


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## Jon Blaze (Nov 27, 2006)

jigglijaque said:


> mr blaze.......... mayb u have to see the show again, watching my segment, closely. my "fetish" refers to my pillow stuffing and being a female fa , only interested in big girls. i think that qualifies as a fetish.


Preference for human traits (Be them physical or mental) is just that: A preference.

Some people can't smoke without alcohol present. Others do not require both at the same time. While pillow stuffing has relation to fat admiration, they aren't the same thing.

Not all people have another activity related to their preference, or don't indicate the similarities.

Here's on example: Not all people into the inflation "fetish" are into bbws/ssbbws, and some aren't even into weight gain expansion.

Being an FA (either male or female) is a preference. Here's one major reason in my eyes:

If people that only date thin people have a preference, how is it that having a preference for large people become a fetish? It doesn't make sense! I'm not saying this based on your reply, but most people that only date thin people indicate our preference as a fetish, and it has a sort of negative connotation. This causes confusion (Today I saw this WLS board talking about Nicki, and once again, stupid people [I call them stupid because that slandered her, they think they're better, and they are not willing to learn these type of differences] don't know the difference between an FA and a feeder.)

Your pillow stuffing: That is a fetish. It's an activity you like to do.


Your romantic interest in big people: That's preference. Even if you're FA/FFA) to the core, that still makes it a preference. Interest in big people isn't an activity is it?

"Fetish" was originally meant to indicate an object with magical power (now normally an activity, now a corrupted term to sometimes indicate preference). I'd rather use something like "Adipose-Philic" than that.

Besides the point.. I'm a FA that is non-exclusive in his preference. What term does that give me? Prefetish?  

I would continue you on, but I'm not trying to give a refutation. I'm just giving you insight in the hope that you look at this from a different perspective.


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## T_Devil (Nov 28, 2006)

I saw the show and I was neither here nor there about it. I thought it could have delved into the positive aspects a lot more, but the audiance didn't totally trash the guests either. It was a small victory, but a step in the right direction for a change..... as far as talkshows go.


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## Jon Blaze (Dec 4, 2006)

T_Devil said:


> I saw the show and I was neither here nor there about it. I thought it could have delved into the positive aspects a lot more, but the audiance didn't totally trash the guests either. It was a small victory, but a step in the right direction for a change..... as far as talkshows go.


We can only hope for continued victories like this in the future.


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## T_Devil (Dec 4, 2006)

Jon Blaze said:


> We can only hope for continued victories like this in the future.


I think there has been progress. I mean, I can see a definent difference just on the Internet. When I first got the internet, there were only a handful of websites that delt with BBW. Now, BBW websites are all over the place. Yeah, the majority of them are adult based, but then again, the internet has always been a market for adult entertainment.

But it also makes for an interesting barometer as far as social conciousness is concerened. It's literally like seeing society without it's clothes on. There are so many BBW sites out there and they seem to do pretty well for themselves, depending on who's sites we're talking about. They make enough to to sustain a website, because some of these websites have been around for 5 years or better.

The amount of BBW websites out there today as contrasted back to the start of the internet tells me that because the internet runs right into our homes and into our sexlives, it plugs right into our deepest desires.... and A LOT of people desire fat girls! From this perspective, there is a kind of domino effect.

First is the initial encounter which triggers the interest (or intensifies existing feelings and instincts).
Then there is the continued facination.
Then the interaction with other people that are just as interested as you.
Then there is the contact with the actual women through websites, message boards and other points of direct communication.
Then their facination leaps from off their computer and into their real lives.
And it's at this point that they come to their final realization of just how much of a Fat Admierer they really are.

That's based on my own experience, other experiences may vary.

But you take individual experiences like these and you multiply them a few hundred times through various nations around the world and you find that you have a whole new society of people interacting with each other. Enough of these people interact and network with each other and soon they get together and plan events, which we do to this day.

I'm amazed it's taken the mainstream this long to catch on. It's nice to get positive recognition in a world where people can be so negative. Hopefully, more positivity will beget more positivity. Perhaps the next show that picks this topic up and runs with it will do an even better job with it.

One could only hope so.


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## Jon Blaze (Dec 13, 2006)

T_Devil said:


> I think there has been progress. I mean, I can see a definent difference just on the Internet. When I first got the internet, there were only a handful of websites that delt with BBW. Now, BBW websites are all over the place. Yeah, the majority of them are adult based, but then again, the internet has always been a market for adult entertainment.
> 
> But it also makes for an interesting barometer as far as social conciousness is concerened. It's literally like seeing society without it's clothes on. There are so many BBW sites out there and they seem to do pretty well for themselves, depending on who's sites we're talking about. They make enough to to sustain a website, because some of these websites have been around for 5 years or better.
> 
> ...



That's actually very accurate. The "Domino Effect" I went through wasn't too close, but there were some similar instances. Fat admiration actually became a part of me because of a negative experience. Now it has become one of my better traits.

Great message I must say. I applaud your excellence... and eloquence.


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## Gaining Goddess (Dec 14, 2006)

Chimpi said:


> Not red hair. Not Nancy Goddess.
> 
> *EDIT:* Furthermore, she appears at _about_ 4:48 (minutes:seconds) into the full episode, when Desire is talking about having had to gain weight because she was too small to be in the plus size modelling business. I could not get a screen capture. She (woman in question) has a big smile on her face.



The girl in question is Nicole's (Jennifer: Editor of BODacious magaine) sister


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## Jon Blaze (Dec 15, 2006)

Gaining Goddess said:


> The girl in question is Nicole's (Jennifer: Editor of BODacious magaine) sister



I guess beauty runs in her family... and yours.


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