# Why should society accept you ?



## Lo-Pan (Jul 7, 2006)

I'm not trying to troll, I'm interested in getting a debate going.

Obviously, I'm referring to the SSBBW out there. I'm no fat hater, I see nothing wrong with being plump, curvy women can be quite hot :smitten:

There are so many reasons to have a healthy weight, why accept something that hinders or even threaten your life ? Why should others do ? Have you given up being a normal size ?


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## Emma (Jul 7, 2006)

*why accept something that hinders or even threaten your life? *

There are lots of things that hinder or threaten peoples life. We all die one way or another. Why spend your life denying yourself things? I don't pig out all the time, I eat like other people do. It wouldn't make me happy to have to starve myself. 

*Why should others do? *

Because I am no less of a person for having extra flesh. I still have needs, feelings and hopes. I just want what other people get. I'm not asking for people to accomodate me. If I don't fit, then I won't go. However if I was qualified for a job and I didn't get it because of my size then that would be unfair (granted I wouldn't go for a job that yo uhave to be physically fit in)

*Have you given up being a normal size ?*

This is a normal size for ME.


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## butch (Jul 7, 2006)

oh no you didn't.


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## bigsexy920 (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> I'm not trying to troll, I'm interested in getting a debate going.
> 
> Obviously, I'm referring to the SSBBW out there. I'm no fat hater, I see nothing wrong with being plump, curvy women can be quite hot :smitten:
> 
> There are so many reasons to have a healthy weight, why accept something that hinders or even threaten your life ? Why should others do ? Have you given up being a normal size ?



Its funny becuase there was a time when my mother was comforting me because I was sad that people had made fun of me while I was doing something or another. She actually said that its to be expected, If I was going to be over weight I was going to have to hear these things. I was a teen 16-17 and I remember thinking how terrible it was for my mother to tell me that. I guess in a way she was doing it to prepare me for the rest of my life. 

I went through many years of hating myself becuase of my size and doing EVERYTHING I could to change it. Yes including WLS and Im still over 400lbs. 

I accept who I am now, becuase I CAN'T hate myself it has nothing really to do with loving my size and my fat, it has to do with loving the person I am today and today I'm fat and let's face it I'll be fat till I die. 

I do believe that I and anyone who is larger should still maintain a "healthy" life. Eating things that are good for your body and also excersizing on a regular basis. This I must admit I don't always follow. 

Why should others? After the pep talk from my mom way back when I really don't expect others to accept me but I accept them why can't they accept me. 

I don't know if this answered your questions but it's all I have.


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## dragorat (Jul 7, 2006)

*We are all different but we are all human.Some of us are different by choice,some for other reasons.Does that make us any less human than those who fit into what society calls "normal"?I say NO!So we may not feel we have to accept those who are different but wouldn't the world be a lot better if we did?*


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## Ned Sonntag (Jul 7, 2006)

This is the big diff, philosophically between right and left. Margaret Thatcher said famously that she didn't believe in 'society'. A kid is born... how much is it entitled to? Not much, in a strictly Libertarian milieu, eh?


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## ThatFatGirl (Jul 7, 2006)

Hmmm... you just registered this morning, you have no information as of 9:00 a.m. CST on your profile, you say you're not trolling, but you ask questions like this on a size acceptance board... 

I'll just ask you, what's it to you?


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## Lo-Pan (Jul 7, 2006)

butch said:


> *oh no you didn't. *


This reply will be hard to top  



CurvyEm said:


> *why accept something that hinders or even threaten your life? *
> 
> There are lots of things that hinder or threaten peoples life. We all die one way or another. Why spend your life denying yourself things? I don't pig out all the time, I eat like other people do. It wouldn't make me happy to have to starve myself.
> 
> ...



I understand a lot of things in life are bad for you, smoking, drugs, etc. yet they have a lot less social stigma associated with them. Would you say the rewards food offers you make up for the problems associated with being overweight ?

You'll get no debate from me saying you're a person but I can see how unfair the job market can seem to many of you. A lot of people are likely to have similar qualifications applying for a job, who do you expect will be picked...

And as for size, the human body is built for a certain range of variations.
How does one justify calling someone two times or more their medically accepted weight 'normal' ?


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## Observer (Jul 7, 2006)

The wording of your question, along with the fact that that its your first post, reflects a mindset that I think most of those here grew past long ago: "we must dislike all fat people because statistics say it is unhealthy for them to be that way."

That kind of gross over-generalization is like saying "we must dislike all the poor and homeless because they are obviously lazy leech's on society" or "we must ridicule all people born with disabilities because they look different than us and can't contribute positively to society."

The latter two mindsets are gross over generalizations and false - so is the first. The successful (and healthy) lives of many people of size on this board and throughout society proves it. As this article about the "Women of Substance Health Spa" mentions, Plus-size clothing is now a $27 billion per year business.

A choice to accept being larger than the norm, or to love someone who is, should not be equated with having or tolerating poor health or nutrition. I personally am heavier, so is my wife, so are numerous relatives and friends. Most are now in their sixties or more. Frankly most are not supersize but I am counting just those who are medically obese - at least around 250 pounds or more. for decades all of them that I know have known they are "at risk" for various health issues and take proactive steps to sayt healthy - but weight loss efforts have not been among them.

Why? Because we know that, for 95% of people, diets etc don't last long term. It is better to exercise, stay reasonably fit, and watch the types of food you eat. This approach is certainly better for our own self-esteem than blaming everything in our life (jobs, lack of romantic interests, etc) on the size of our waistline - but the latter stereotype is unfortunately the role which society fosters and too many people of size swallow.

The fat folk I know seldom talk about their size outside forums like this because they know the non-fat world doesn't care. They do their jobs. pursue their hobbies, raise their families and are invisible except when out in public. Its practical from their perspective, but its more pragmatic than honest. The ones that get hurt are those who haven't transitioned into acceptance of themselves: fat teens, fat young adults, fat employees, fat parents and others who have bought into the "all fat is bad, unhealthy and you should feel like a guilty pariah" myth.

A growing minority of fat people have moved far beyond this stereotype and out of hiding. The result has been groups like NAAFA and ISSA. Along the road some interesting understanding has emerged. With healthy living and a positive self image some have come to feel that fastness is enjoyable. They not only accept their size, they celebrate it! And they have discovered that here are Significant Others who like them that way.

We who are larger accept ourselves first out of necessity (we can't for the most part change it) and ultimately because we find its actually enjoyable. As for acceptance by society, its a simple quid pro quo - we have to accept all sorts of differences from the "norm" in others: race, religion, culture, intersts, politics, agem disabilities etc). Why should not others give us the same respect and equality of opportunity we are expected to give them?

*From an old advertisement from the fifties:*

* ECIDUJERP ---

Prejudice spelled backwards.

Either way it doesn't make any sense.*


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## Mini (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> And as for size, the human body is built for a certain range of variations.
> How does one justify calling someone two times or more their medically accepted weight 'normal' ?



Normality is overrated. Trust me on this one.


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## Lo-Pan (Jul 7, 2006)

ThatFatGirl said:


> Hmmm... you just registered this morning, you have no information as of 9:00 a.m. CST on your profile, you say you're not trolling, but you ask questions like this on a size acceptance board...
> 
> I'll just ask you, what's it to you?



So you don't know what I look like, where I come from or what my interests are, does it really matter?

I ask because I'm curious and I enjoy playing the devil's advocate.

If you can't handle polite discussion from an "outsider's" perspective, I say you're not doing much to gain acceptance.


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## Mini (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> So you don't know what I look like, where I come from or what my interests are, does it really matter?
> 
> I ask because I'm curious and I enjoy playing the devil's advocate.
> 
> If you can't handle polite discussion from an "outsider's" perspective, I say you're not doing much to gain acceptance.



Y'see, the problem with that is that you're far from the first to try to "help" us, and you won't be the last. This place has a history, and nothing you've done or posted so far has suggested that you're anything but a troll.

I sincerely hope that I'm wrong on this one.


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## Carrie (Jul 7, 2006)

If you really want to learn the answers to your questions, I suggest that you browse through threads here. You'll learn that most of us have struggled with our weight for our entire lives, and many of us have taken drastic measures to try to reduce it. After years of trying to lower my caloric and fat intake and increase my exercise level, to no effect whatsoever, I finally lost a significant amount of weight ten years ago eating nothing but cereal and popcorn, and working out - hard - twice a day. I was ecstatic, until I developed kidney stones and a kidney infection as a result of my poor diet. I was forced to give up that diet (thank god), and promptly regained the weight I'd lost, and then some. This is not a unique story - most of us here have similar tales to tell.

Do some research on the the effects of yo-yo dieting, as well as the genetics of obesity and the psychology of compulsive eating. Most of us have accepted our fat bodies after years of self-loathing and trying our damnedest to lose weight, to no avail, because we recognize at this point that we can either accept that this is the body we've been given, and love it and take care of it as best we can, or we can live our entire lives hating ourselves and embracing the dreaded "Someday, when I'm thin, I'll...." philosophy. 

You're not telling us anything we don't already know by mentioning how challenging the job market can be. I mean, are you serious with this stuff? Pointing out how difficult some aspects of our lives are to us? Not needed. We're well aware. Unless you've been fat, you have no concept of what it's like to be fat - to be instantly judged on your character wherever you go, based solely on your body size. A hideous wife-beating child molester can walk into a job interview, act perfectly normal for 30 minutes, and come out with a job. We, on the other hand, walk in, and are frequently instantly sized up as lazy, out of control, greedy, etc., and dismissed. Do you honestly think we're unaware of this, or think about it, and say cheerily, "Well, too bad, but I'd rather eat twenty bajilliondy eclairs tonight than be treated well by my fellow humans!"? Nope. That's not how it works. 

This the hand I've been dealt. Every single one of us has challenges to contend with in their lives, some more than others, and my weight is mine. I was unable to change it, after years of trying, so here I am now, countless painful lessons later - a fat woman who accepts and loves herself and her body, trying to live her life with joy, dignity, and meaning. 

There are a lot of us here.


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## Lo-Pan (Jul 7, 2006)

Mini said:


> Y'see, the problem with that is that you're far from the first to try to "help" us, and you won't be the last. This place has a history, and nothing you've done or posted so far has suggested that you're anything but a troll.
> 
> I sincerely hope that I'm wrong on this one.



Yes, evidently my goal here is to reform all you sinners 

I'd like to point out that preemptive troll calling does nothing to keep people level-headed.

But I do agree most of you have probably gone thru this kind of conversation before. Feel free to skip the thread.


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## moonvine (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> You'll get no debate from me saying you're a person but I can see how unfair the job market can seem to many of you. A lot of people are likely to have similar qualifications applying for a job, who do you expect will be picked...



I will be picked. Because I rule. I have a Master's degree in Counseling, a bachelor's degree in English/Spanish, documented leadership ability (starting with an Alumni Leadership scholarship to college and continuing until the present day. My team genuinely likes me as a person and I genuinely care about them. I'm smart, and learn new things quickly. And I have the constitution of a horse. I'm never out sick. I have a whole stack of perfect attendance awards sitting on my desk as we speak.

Quite frankly, if a company decides not to hire me because of my size, they are the loser. Not me.


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## Mini (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> Yes, evidently my goal here is to reform all you sinners
> 
> I'd like to point out that preemptive troll calling does nothing to keep people level-headed.
> 
> But I do agree most of you have probably gone thru this kind of conversation before. Feel free to skip the thread.



I'd also like to point out that I am really tall, and therefore my opinion counts for two people. And in my opinion, stripes shouldn't be worn with a dotted tie.

There, find two people to disagree with me and then we'll have something to talk about.


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## NFA (Jul 7, 2006)

When your first attempt at discussion is to ask that people justify themselves to you, you are acting like a troll. Especially when you preface that demand by insisting that you aren't a troll.

Why shouldn't society accept fat people? Oh, right. You think we aren't healthy. Why? Because that's what you've been told? Because its common sense? The fact is, there is stunningly little research on the issue. Much of what has been done is seriously flawed with major biases towards proving the dominant assumpsion. AND STILL, the research is inconclusive at best and at most shows a slight increase of risk attached to being fat. It doesn't remotely justify the massive cultural condemnation of fat people.

The fact remains that weight loss is not achievable for all by a tiny minority of the population (and even then it may just be for a few years). Attempts to lose weight are profoundly dangerous and unhealthy. The only thing they've been shown effective at is inducing weight gain. While at most 5% of people trying to lose weight actually will lose even a moderate amount, 90% will end up weighing more than they did in the first place. Weight loss is a "treatment" which doesn't work and has failed the health and well-being of fat people for far too long.

We need to stop all promotion of disordered eating and body hatred. Not merely for the benefit of SSBBWs but for the vast majority of the population who has internalized the fear of fat and suffer because of it. Society should accept us and we should accept ourselves. Fat hatred has been the dominant belief in our culture for far too long and has absolutely NOTHING to show for it. We need to encourage all people to accept their bodies as they are and not as they or anyone else thinks they ought to be. Fat stigmatization is a profound disaster and it must end.


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## Jes (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> So you don't know what I look like, where I come from or what my interests are, does it really matter?
> 
> .


Are you hot? All I really care about is if you're hot and if you put out. That's pretty much the only reason I'm here.

I ask because I'm curious, Lo-Pan.


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## Lo-Pan (Jul 7, 2006)

Jes said:


> Are you hot? All I really care about is if you're hot and if you put out. That's pretty much the only reason I'm here.
> 
> I ask because I'm curious, Lo-Pan.



Well, I'm no Arnold but I do :kiss2:


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## Lo-Pan (Jul 7, 2006)

NFA said:


> The fact remains that weight loss is not achievable for all by a tiny minority of the population (and even then it may just be for a few years). Attempts to lose weight are profoundly dangerous and unhealthy. The only thing they've been shown effective at is inducing weight gain. While at most 5% of people trying to lose weight actually will lose even a moderate amount, 90% will end up weighing more than they did in the first place. Weight loss is a "treatment" which doesn't work and has failed the health and well-being of fat people for far too long.



You're kidding right ?


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## Jes (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> Well, I'm no Arnold but I do :kiss2:


hmmn. I don't know about that. Post pix, please. The world is more kind to the pretty and I simply want to see what I'm getting stuck with, here. A test drive before I buy, as it were.


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## moonvine (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> You're kidding right ?




He's not kidding at all. He's 100% serious. I don't think NFA kids (well, at least I haven't seen it in this forum - that's what I'm basing this statement on - I don't know him IRL or anything).

I also think he's right.


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## bigsexy920 (Jul 7, 2006)

Wow I oured my heart out and nothing eveyone cares about te LO guy


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## Jes (Jul 7, 2006)

bigsexy920 said:


> Wow I oured my heart out and nothing eveyone cares about te LO guy


oh, we care abut you, BS. Of course we do. But we know you. This LP is new meat though, see? I'm not going to pounce and assume anything negative (though one wonders about someone coming to a support site), I just care if LP is hot. My goal is to objectify, and that's hard when LP won't post photos. How can I reduce you to body parts, LP? I only ask b/c I'm curious!!


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## Lo-Pan (Jul 7, 2006)

bigsexy920 said:


> Wow I oured my heart out and nothing eveyone cares about te LO guy



I'm sorry, I really appreciated your post and everyone else's who replied seriously.

I realized it would be really hard to reply to points I disagree with without being inflammatory and being the new guy, it was a bad idea to ask these questions.

Ill spare you the drama


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## Jes (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> I'm sorry, I really appreciated your post and everyone else's who replied seriously.
> 
> I realized it would be really hard to reply to points I disagree with without being inflammatory and being the new guy, it was a bad idea to ask these questions.
> 
> Ill spare you the drama


yeah, blah blah, great. Now really--you hot? because I need to know if I, as part of society, should accept you. I mean it. 

send pix/stats to: [email protected]


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## Lo-Pan (Jul 7, 2006)

Jes said:


> yeah, blah blah, great. Now really--you hot? because I need to know if I, as part of society, should accept you. I mean it.
> 
> send pix/stats to: [email protected]



Ha! You should take what you can get and be damn grateful about it!


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## activistfatgirl (Jul 7, 2006)

Jes said:


> yeah, blah blah, great. Now really--you hot? because I need to know if I, as part of society, should accept you. I mean it.
> 
> send pix/stats to: [email protected]



I certainly hope you'll share. Forward to [email protected]com. Thanks. Because I think what our bodies look like transcends all other measures of societal worth. And if this guy doesn't have a big package, I'm certain he's not worth much.




Lo-Pan said:


> Ill spare you the drama



Well, we like drama. And this thread will do just fine for that.


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## MissToodles (Jul 7, 2006)

Why do others' health concern you so much? It seems like a weak argument when you say "ohmigod fat people are so unhealthy"! This sort of rhetoric never justifies anything!


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## Observer (Jul 7, 2006)

Don't feel bad BS -- my long and thoughtful dissertation has been totally ignored as well.

As for Lo-Pan's troll status, I don't seem him (?) so much as a troll but a typically brainwashed outsider trying to come clean now that he's encountered an alternative reality that contradicts his preconceived paradigms.

He's at least not engaging in hit and run insults but is reading and responding.

And yes, Lo-Pan, NFA wsn't kidding. The long term failure rate for weight loss remedies across the board after five years is 95%. The reason is thgat weight loss simply debpletes adipose tissue contents but does not dissolve the adipose cell walls. They remain intact like underinflated balooms waiting to be refilled and the body fights to do just that - reducing metabolism rates if needed. The result is a tendancy for weight regain plus a little if given any opportunity at all.


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## Cat (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> There are so many reasons to have a healthy weight, why accept something that hinders or even threaten your life ?




If you want to go this way, then...

Why should you accept people who speed on the highway?
Why should you accept people who smoke?
Why should you accept people who have unprotected sex?
Why should you accept people who eat chicken on the bone?
Why should you accept people who swim in the ocean?
Why should you accept people who climb Mt Everest?
Why should you accept people who sky dive?
etc, etc, etc.


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## Jes (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> Ha! You should take what you can get and be damn grateful about it!


look, lopan, I'm not trying to troll, I'm interested in getting a debate going.
I don't have specific expectations, it's not about your weenis, I'm just wondering if, as part of this society you talk about, I should accept you. And I expect you to defend yourself while I sit in judgement. I just feel that's my role here, as part of society. I think that's only fair. I'm sure you can understand that.


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## Mini (Jul 7, 2006)

Jes said:


> look, lopan, I'm not trying to troll, I'm interested in getting a debate going.
> I don't have specific expectations, it's not about your weenis, I'm just wondering if, as part of this society you talk about, I should accept you. And I expect you to defend yourself while I sit in judgement. I just feel that's my role here, as part of society. I think that's only fair. I'm sure you can understand that.



See, no one tries to take advantage of me anymore. I must be losing my sex appeal.


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## Cat (Jul 7, 2006)

hehehe Jes. I'm not sure that he can.


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## mossystate (Jul 7, 2006)

Folks....folks....folks....and......folks...do not defend yourselves..pleeeeeaaase!!!!!!!


Just look at lo and smile...say....'awwwwwww'...smile(one more time)...rinse...repeat...(pat his widdle head if you are ok with very close contact)...


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## SensualSSBBWCurves (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> I'm not trying to troll, I'm interested in getting a debate going.
> 
> Obviously, I'm referring to the SSBBW out there. I'm no fat hater, I see nothing wrong with being plump, curvy women can be quite hot :smitten:
> 
> There are so many reasons to have a healthy weight, why accept something that hinders or even threaten your life ? Why should others do ? Have you given up being a normal size ?




I just have one question!!

What is a "normal" size ???


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## activistfatgirl (Jul 7, 2006)

mosey along lil pilgrims, there's nothin to see here...


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## Jes (Jul 7, 2006)

SensualSSBBWCurves said:


> I just have one question!!
> 
> What is a "normal" size ???


goodness! i've already said, this is not about anyone's weenis (so you just hush up again, Mini)


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## Lo-Pan (Jul 7, 2006)

Observer said:


> Don't feel bad BS -- my long and thoughtful dissertation has been totally ignored as well.
> 
> As for Lo-Pan's troll status, I don't seem him (?) so much as a troll but a typically brainwashed outsider trying to come clean now that he's encountered an alternative reality that contradicts his preconceived paradigms.
> 
> ...



I really don't agree with that or with the degree to which genetics impacts weight. 

At the risk of sounding like a TROLL, i'd equate saying that weight loss is practically impossible to believing the Earth is only 5000 years old : most real life experience points to the contrary.


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## Mini (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> I really don't agree with that or with the degree to which genetics impacts weight.
> 
> At the risk of sounding like a TROLL, i'd equate saying that weight loss is practically impossible to believing the Earth is only 5000 years old : most real life experience points to the contrary.



Most "real life experience" points to the majority of people being "overweight," and the diet industry being a multi-billion dollar crock o' shit.

Logically, if diets worked, the industry would have shrivelled up and died by now, and no one would have a problem with their weight.

Well, sorta-logically. Extrapolate however you so choose, but observable evidence shows that it ain't as simple as you seem to think it is.


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## Carrie (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> I really don't agree with that or with the degree to which genetics impacts weight.



Why, on the genetics? You say you wanted to start a good debate - fine. But a good debate involves thoughtful intercourse (stop snickering, Jes), and backing up your points with valid arguments, not just saying "I disagree". 



Lo-Pan said:


> At the risk of sounding like a TROLL, i'd equate saying that weight loss is practically impossible to believing the Earth is only 5000 years old : most real life experience points to the contrary.



Again, "most real life experience points to the contrary"? That's not an argument. Whose real life? Yours? It's eminently clear that you're not a fat person, so your real life experience *alone* means little to me, regarding this topic. 

Weight loss is not impossible for many people - difficult, but not impossible. What we've been saying here is that *keeping* it off is the almost impossible part, hence my recommendation to go read about yo-yo dieting and its effects. Let me ask you this - how many people have you known throughout your life who've lost significant amounts of weight (let's say 50 lbs. or more)? Now, how many of them were able to keep it off for at least five years?


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## Lo-Pan (Jul 7, 2006)

Mini said:


> Most "real life experience" points to the majority of people being "overweight," and the diet industry being a multi-billion dollar crock o' shit.
> 
> Logically, if diets worked, the industry would have shrivelled up and died by now, and no one would have a problem with their weight.
> 
> Well, sorta-logically. Extrapolate however you so choose, but observable evidence shows that it ain't as simple as you seem to think it is.



I agree a lot of popular diets are fads mostly used to rack in money. With only a bit of reading, you can make yourself a better meal plan and save some money for a gym membership.

The hole in your logic is pretty easy to find : people usually dont stick with diets or fitness plans long enough.

And if you've been outside the States, you've seen that fat people are a lot fewer and far between. It must be the water.


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## Jes (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> And if you've been outside the States, you've seen that fat people are a lot fewer and far between. It must be the water.


i've been checking my email acct. for the last 20 minutes, boobookitty.


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## Carrie (Jul 7, 2006)

Carrie said:


> Again, "most real life experience points to the contrary"? That's not an argument. Whose real life? Yours? It's eminently clear that you're not a fat person, so your real life experience *alone* means little to me, regarding this topic.



Oops - just to clarify this: I don't mean that as a non-fat person (to make you sound like yogurt), that your opinion is meaningless. I meant that if what you meant by "real life experience" is that you lost five pounds after eating a lot of Easter candy, or you knew this one girl in high school who lost a bunch of weight and kept it off, that's not terribly meaningful to your argument. Sorry if that came across the wrong way.


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## Jes (Jul 7, 2006)

Carrie said:


> Oops - just to clarify this: I don't mean that as a non-fat person (to make you sound like yogurt), that your opinion is meaningless. I meant that if what you meant by "real life experience" is that you lost five pounds after eating a lot of Easter candy, or you knew this one girl in high school who lost a bunch of weight and kept it off, that's not terribly meaningful to your argument. Sorry if that came across the wrong way.


What if he ate this one girl in high school?

I'm not helping, am I?


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## Carrie (Jul 7, 2006)

Jes said:


> What if he ate this one girl in high school?
> 
> I'm not helping, am I?



Wait. Does that make him a feeder? A feedee? And was she tasty?


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## activistfatgirl (Jul 7, 2006)

I forgot to give my intellectual answer in all the fun.

Society needs to accept me as is because I give far more to society than I've ever taken. Exponentially more. It's a simple answer. You don't need to worship me, or _like_ what I look like. But you need to give me space and not discriminate me when I'm out in the world. I demand that simple respect. Whatever your ideas are on fat, weight loss, whatever, it doesn't matter in the least. But this isn't the place for those thoughts. This is the one corner of the world where I *do* demand more than simple respect. Here, I like the admiration, the unabashed worship.

So pony up with some pictures or jump ship. It's a bumpy ride around here.


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## Carrie (Jul 7, 2006)

activistfatgirl said:


> I forgot to give my intellectual answer in all the fun.
> 
> Society needs to accept me as is because I give far more to society than I've ever taken. Exponentially more. It's a simple answer. You don't need to worship me, or _like_ what I look like. But you need to give me space and not discriminate me when I'm out in the world. I demand that simple respect. Whatever your ideas are on fat, weight loss, whatever, it doesn't matter in the least. But this isn't the place for those thoughts. This is the one corner of the world where I *do* demand more than simple respect. Here, I like the admiration, the unabashed worship.
> 
> So pony up with some pictures or jump ship. It's a bumpy ride around here.



I'm all out of rep for the day, but this was an excellent post, AFG.


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## Lo-Pan (Jul 7, 2006)

Carrie said:


> Oops - just to clarify this: I don't mean that as a non-fat person (to make you sound like yogurt), that your opinion is meaningless. I meant that if what you meant by "real life experience" is that you lost five pounds after eating a lot of Easter candy, or you knew this one girl in high school who lost a bunch of weight and kept it off, that's not terribly meaningful to your argument. Sorry if that came across the wrong way.



I used to be pretty fat, being over 225 at the end of high school. Fortunately I realized I had a problem before I had trouble moving, which made weight loss pretty easy. 
I know anectodal experience doesn't mean much but people all around you are fit and proportionally sized. Are you saying it's 100% genetic related and impossible to change?


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## Mini (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> I agree a lot of popular diets are fads mostly used to rack in money. With only a bit of reading, you can make yourself a better meal plan and save some money for a gym membership.
> 
> The hole in your logic is pretty easy to find : people usually dont stick with diets or fitness plans long enough.



Fad/crash diets are unhealthy in the long term, though. Atkins? Cancer. Starvation? Death. Liquid? Death. 

That said, I do agree that it's pretty easy to plan a healthy diet; eat three or four times a day and stay away from the shit food (and let's face it, everyone knows nowadays what foods are best left to occasional indulgences) and you'll be healthy. Throw some exercise in there and you're good to go.

The genetic conundrum comes into play when you consider that not everyone has a metabolism that would reflect a healthy diet and lifestyle. There are fat people who eat well and exercise, but for whatever reason their bodies stay, well, fat. And guess what? There are thin people who eat shit all the time, but their bodies don't reflect it, either.

Again, it's not as simple as all-fat-people-are-pigs-all-thin-people-are-healthy.


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## Observer (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> And if you've been outside the States, you've seen that fat people are a lot fewer and far between. It must be the water.



Now you're beginning to sound like a person who just wants to argue rather than a true seeker after truth.

The food supply and life spans in many other areas of the world are far less than here. So obviously there are fewer fat people there. But we have been talking about the redecivism (tendency to regain) rate for those who have once become fat. Its no better in other countries than here.

Why we become fat in the first place is a whole separate topic. Some people, studies have shown, are genetically programmed that way. Some have life and metabolism altering events. And some frankly eat more of the wrong kinds of foods than they utilize. Unwise consumption of refined sugar foods, meat, and hi-fat foods is an America dietary problem not confined to the obese - but if you tend to gain weight easily to begin with its amplified.

Would it surprise you to know that members of the fat community generally know all this and most of us do watch our consumption? Maybe more diligently than our more slender counterparts?



Lo-Pan said:


> I agree a lot of popular diets are fads mostly used to rack in money. With only a bit of reading, you can make yourself a better meal plan and save some money for a gym membership.
> 
> The hole in your logic is pretty easy to find : people usually dont stick with diets or fitness plans long enough..



Another surprise - many of us do do meal planning and do have gym memberships. White sugar has been banned from our household for forty years an I probably don't drink a dozen cokes in a year. I gave a link in my original response to one specifically for larger people and both my wife and I have had a club membership for years (and yes, we use it),

I think you will find very few in this community living on ice cream, twinkies and pizza. I can tell you that there are some complete vegans. Perhaps before you judge us you should get to know who we really are and what our lifestyle is actually like?


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## Carrie (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> Are you saying it's 100% genetic related and impossible to change?



Have you read anything else I wrote in this thread? I'm not going to give you a Cliffs Notes version of my comments, if you can't be arsed to read and digest thoughtful responses. 

AFG is right - it doesn't matter what you think about me, or about any of us. This is the same shit that we've heard over and over for most of our lives, and it would be foolhardy of me to think that you'll come out of this thread enlightened. Your mind is already made up. Just treat me with the same respect with which I treat you out in the real world - that's all I ask. No, scrap that - I don't ask. I demand.


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## bigsexy920 (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> I'm sorry, I really appreciated your post and everyone else's who replied seriously.
> 
> I realized it would be really hard to reply to points I disagree with without being inflammatory and being the new guy, it was a bad idea to ask these questions.
> 
> Ill spare you the drama



So are you saying you are not agreing with my post. no need to spare drama I love drama.


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## Lo-Pan (Jul 7, 2006)

Mini said:


> Fad/crash diets are unhealthy in the long term, though. Atkins? Cancer. Starvation? Death. Liquid? Death.
> 
> That said, I do agree that it's pretty easy to plan a healthy diet; eat three or four times a day and stay away from the shit food (and let's face it, everyone knows nowadays what foods are best left to occasional indulgences) and you'll be healthy. Throw some exercise in there and you're good to go.
> 
> ...



100 years ago, I can bet very few people were fat, even in the States, how do you explain that ?

That's 3-4 generation. Genetics don't change that quickly. 

But our lifestyle and eating habits sure did.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jul 7, 2006)

You don't have to accept anyone or anything. However, your life will be much simpler and easier if you accept the different things that aren't harmful to you: left-handed people, GLBTQ people, fat people, deaf people, people who eat their own boogers. 

You don't have to like or agree with anything, but in the name of your life and your love of it, you should try to make your trip as pleasant as possible. If you spend time hating people that don't directly affect you, you're making yourself miserable and wasting energy.


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## Jes (Jul 7, 2006)

ok, everyone, Lopan sent pix, so our society can take a gander. I can just forward the attachments to anyone who wants--PM me! Thanks.


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## Carrie (Jul 7, 2006)

Jes said:


> ok, everyone, Lopan sent pix, so our society can take a gander. I can just forward the attachments to anyone who wants--PM me! Thanks.



He's fat, isn't he. He's a great big fatty-fatty-fat-fat fatman. 

Either that or he's David Hasselhoff, wreaking revenge.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jul 7, 2006)

Carrie said:


> He's fat, isn't he. He's a great big fatty-fatty-fat-fat fatman.
> 
> Either that or he's David Hasselhoff, wreaking revenge.



Or maybe he's Fatselhoff... Eh? Eh?


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## Carrie (Jul 7, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Or maybe he's Fatselhoff... Eh? Eh?



That's hot. Tell me more? Would KITT's seatbelt even fit him?


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jul 7, 2006)

NO! He'd be so fat he'd break through Kitt's floor, and his backside would drag along the highway. (There's a FA storyline somewhere in there. I know it.)


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## Jes (Jul 7, 2006)

Carrie said:


> He's fat, isn't he. He's a great big fatty-fatty-fat-fat fatman.
> 
> Either that or he's David Hasselhoff, wreaking revenge.


you'll have to see for yourself. I'll fwd. the pix. 

anyway, do you remember being 24? And how you knew everything? 

My sense of the man is that he's ambivalent about the whole thing. He likes fat women, he was once fattish himself but didn't like that, he wonders how others can be fat and like it, or deal wiht it, or relish in it....All of the same feelings some of US have had, but he comes here not as one of us to ask about it, but as someone who makes a point of standing apart, and that's what concerns us.

Me? Do I think about society accepting me? ("I'm here, I'm round, accomodate me!") I don't know. All I know is that I get up in the morning, and I feed my sometimes sick kitty, and go to my job, and work on my website, and try to chat up gents I like, and schmooze for professional conference opportunities or freelance work, and plan my next trip to someplace cool, and dread going to the gym (though I go)....Not a lot of time for me to do the whole: justify myself to society thing. Sors.


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## Lo-Pan (Jul 7, 2006)

Observer said:


> Now you're beginning to sound like a person who just wants to argue rather than a true seeker after truth.



Granted. What irks me is that a lot of arguments sound like a way to avoid personal responsability. Reaching 300+ lb. takes years and a lot of food. That's plenty of time to act (for those who believe in weight loss i guess).


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## LookingAround (Jul 7, 2006)

Good for you Lo-Pan, you lost weight 'before' it became a problem for you. Go Lo-Pan! You've also seen that in other parts of the world, overweight is not so prevalent. Now I don't know if that is a jab at overweight people, or western culture. Gee, let me see....I live in a country where survival depends on either begging for food, waiting in line hours for food, or eating what I find on the roads, ummm...I just may be emanciated (what do you think?). Or I live in a society where billions of people trample me everyday, and rice is my main staple because meat is more costly than simple rice. I enjoy a slender silhouette as have members of my generation, but now I find that I'm contending with Type 2 Diabetes,....wait, this is only the infliction of the overweight. How can this happen?!?! And I was once corpulent, but now I'm not, but I find that I have to diligently exercise and watch what I eat, could this be my normal weight I wonder? Isn't the definition of normal what comes naturally to you as an individual? I don't think that painting a green sky blue, makes the sky naturally (normally) blue, do you?

Just my two cents.


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## Lo-Pan (Jul 7, 2006)

Jes said:


> you'll have to see for yourself. I'll fwd. the pix.
> 
> anyway, do you remember being 24? And how you knew everything?
> 
> ...



Post it here, i'd like to know what i look like


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## mossystate (Jul 7, 2006)

Awwwwww..fucketty fuckbuckets..I was just about to PM Jes for the pics..I am a lil slow this morning....heh


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## activistfatgirl (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> Post it here, i'd like to know what i look like



You're not that bad, minus the excessive hair. I'd respect ya in real life, because that's what I'm about.


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## Lo-Pan (Jul 7, 2006)

Jes said:


> My sense of the man is that he's ambivalent about the whole thing. He likes fat women, he was once fattish himself but didn't like that, he wonders how others can be fat and like it, or deal wiht it, or relish in it....All of the same feelings some of US have had, but he comes here not as one of us to ask about it, but as someone who makes a point of standing apart, and that's what concerns us.



You're pretty much on the money with that assertion


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## Jes (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> You're pretty much on the money with that assertion


you're a dime a dozen pal and ... well....that's boring. 

that, and the excessive hair....I mean, not that there's anything wrong with that. 

it's just that you don't get that much hair overnight. There are ways to get rid of that much hair, if you really commit yourself. I mean, is it all genetic? I don't know. But for tips on hair removal, query Sade and her hoohoo over at the fashion board.


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## Lo-Pan (Jul 7, 2006)

activistfatgirl said:


> You're not that bad, minus the excessive hair. I'd respect ya in real life, because that's what I'm about.




Thanks but that's not me, I'm too modest to be digitized


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## activistfatgirl (Jul 7, 2006)

Jes, stop being funny. I want to abandon this thread, but you just won't stop.


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## Mini (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> 100 years ago, I can bet very few people were fat, even in the States, how do you explain that ?
> 
> That's 3-4 generation. Genetics don't change that quickly.
> 
> But our lifestyle and eating habits sure did.



OK, Jes, I'll level with you: I tried the "nice" thing. It didn't take.

Sir, I say this with all due respect: your insights are worthless and your hair makes your head look like a fuzzy mushroom.

Thanks for the pics, Jes. New masturbatory fodder for me. 

(I like mushrooms. Sue me.)


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## Jes (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> Thanks but that's not me, I'm too modest to be digitized


look, maybe i took liberties forwarding those shots you sent, but let's not play games, lo.


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## BeaBea (Jul 7, 2006)

I'm late here but if I might just add...

Oh. Good. Grief.

Theres a Village somewhere missing an idiot. Run along and play now Lo-Pan, the grown-ups are talking.

Tracey xx


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## Zandoz (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> 100 years ago, I can bet very few people were fat, even in the States



And you would lose that bet.  You're talking about a period where for some size was equated with prosperity. Look at the presidents and business "giants" of the time 100 years ago.


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## Lo-Pan (Jul 7, 2006)

Zandoz said:


> And you would lose that bet. You're talking about a period where for some size was equated with prosperity. Look at the presidents and business "giants" of the time 100 years ago.



Oh yeah, I forgot that period in history where the business elite outnumbered the working class


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## Mini (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> Oh yeah, I forgot that period in history where the business elite outnumbered the working class



So, correct me if I'm wrong here, but you're saying your head DOES resemble a fuzzy mushroom?


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## Tina (Jul 7, 2006)

Lo-Pan said:


> So you don't know what I look like, where I come from or what my interests are, does it really matter?
> 
> I ask because I'm curious and I enjoy playing the devil's advocate.
> 
> If you can't handle polite discussion from an "outsider's" perspective, I say you're not doing much to gain acceptance.



First, our reason for being is not to enteratin you.

Second, you must think a whole lot of yourself. Fact is, no matter what is said to _you_, size acceptance won't advance or retreat based upon it. You're just a pipsqueak. You are not so all-powerful that our convincing you of *whatever it is* will change the world one iota and we owe you no explanations; nor do I care if you are convinced of anything.

No matter what you think, your place in the world is not to come from an ignorant perspective (whether you are _playing_ ignorant or not is of no import to me) in asking people to justify themselves to you.

I suggest you comport yourself in a more friendly way if you want any kind of longevity on these boards. If you are not interested in that, it would not be an original situation -- we've had registrants who have been here for less than a minute before 'leaving.'

Just a suggestion. This thread closed.


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