# I'm Real!!!!



## penny (Sep 8, 2009)

i recently did a post on here about EATING A WHOLE PIE! and then beeing disgusted with myself. 
well,
the post was true! and i didnt mean any thing bad about weight issues with anyone but me! i was told about this site.i logged on and liked it ALOT! i wanted to love myself like the people on this site. but didnt know how. i was ALWAYS made to feel FAT was UGLY. and i foun d on this site it's not. it's beautiful. and happy. all i wanted was to learn how.i'm SORRY for any misunderstanding.


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## exile in thighville (Sep 8, 2009)

i am personally very sorry for misunderstanding as well. i hope you find good health and learn to love your body here. welcome.


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## Weeze (Sep 8, 2009)

I'm really sorry too, penny. I hope we can help you become more comfortable with yourself  Once you break that wall, you'll really be much happier. Promise.


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## Fallenangel2904 (Sep 8, 2009)

Hi hun! I think for a lot of us it's a process. We didn't all just wake up one day and say 'I'm confident, I fully accept and love my body." I think most of us have gone through very difficult times with self acceptance. When we use the term 'size acceptance' we're not just talking about the world outside and how they see us, we're also talking about our own acceptance with ourselves- at least that's how I define it. It's a process remember that. ::hugs::


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## Shosh (Sep 8, 2009)

Hi Penny,
I am glad you have decided to stick around. 

Shosh


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## Mini (Sep 8, 2009)

I apologize for getting the wrong impression and treating you like a troll. FSM knows I'm not exactly batting a thousand these days. >_>

Welcome! Hope we can help.


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## mossystate (Sep 8, 2009)

Hola, Penny.

Try not to hold yourself up against anybody else, no matter how happy and shiny they seem. Get to a place where you have many more good thoughts about yourself than bad ones. Most of us, no matter our size, are works in progress!


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## mediaboy (Sep 8, 2009)

get drunk

get down

love yourself

love another

welcome to life, its too short to be a bother but jut long enough to be a problem

learn to understand this

learn to live and love in spite of it


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## supersizebbw (Sep 8, 2009)

hey penny, i'm new on here too...i kinda know where your coming from since i feel like i've been living in a dark hole not knowing that fat can be beautiful or loved untill i found this site, i'm now learning to love me just as i am and learning to live each day to the fullest (thanks to the wonderful people on this site)...hope to see you around the forum as we embark in this journey of new self discovery . xoxo



penny said:


> i recently did a post on here about EATING A WHOLE PIE! and then beeing disgusted with myself.
> well,
> the post was true! and i didnt mean any thing bad about weight issues with anyone but me! i was told about this site.i logged on and liked it ALOT! i wanted to love myself like the people on this site. but didnt know how. i was ALWAYS made to feel FAT was UGLY. and i foun d on this site it's not. it's beautiful. and happy. all i wanted was to learn how.i'm SORRY for any misunderstanding.


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## steely (Sep 8, 2009)

Thank you for your generous hearts. That includes you, Penny. :happy:


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## BubbleButtBabe (Sep 8, 2009)

penny said:


> i recently did a post on here about EATING A WHOLE PIE! and then beeing disgusted with myself.
> well,
> the post was true! and i didnt mean any thing bad about weight issues with anyone but me! i was told about this site.i logged on and liked it ALOT! i wanted to love myself like the people on this site. but didnt know how. i was ALWAYS made to feel FAT was UGLY. and i foun d on this site it's not. it's beautiful. and happy. all i wanted was to learn how.i'm SORRY for any misunderstanding.




Hi Penny and welcome..I know how you feel..I overeat a lot and then I am so mad at myself for doing it I could just kick a bucket! Remember loving yourself from the inside out works the best! Love the good person you are inside and before long you will love the good person outside as well..I wish you well on your journey and may you be very happy along the way...


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## Miss Vickie (Sep 8, 2009)

Hi Penny. I'm glad you came back, and I'm sorry people doubted you. We've had a run of trolls here who pretend to be women in crisis, in order to get attention or because they're jerks, and so sometimes people's radar is overly sensitive.

I hope you read the health board and the BBW board and that you get some support. I'd also like to encourage you to reach out for help; you don't have to do this alone, since eating well and caring for our bodies is something many of us struggle with. It's often a very difficult thing.

Take good care, and I'm glad you came back!


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## TallFatSue (Sep 9, 2009)

penny said:


> i recently did a post on here about EATING A WHOLE PIE! and then beeing disgusted with myself.
> well,
> the post was true! and i didnt mean any thing bad about weight issues with anyone but me! i was told about this site.i logged on and liked it ALOT! i wanted to love myself like the people on this site. but didnt know how. i was ALWAYS made to feel FAT was UGLY. and i foun d on this site it's not. it's beautiful. and happy. all i wanted was to learn how.i'm SORRY for any misunderstanding.


Don't worry too much about the disbelievers and the naysayers. The world has an oversupply of them. What is most important is that if *you* truly believe in *yourself*, there's no telling how far you might go in life. A positive attitude works wonders. I'm soooo glad I stumbled into that realization when I was in high school, and 35 years later life is A-OK. 

It also pays to have a healthy sense of humor. 

Definitely don't worry about eating a whole pie, or an entire cake for that matter. You're far from alone! From time to time I have been alerted to the presence of a freshly-baked pie which needed to be destroyed immediately, in order to save everyone else from temptation, so I did my duty. On a few notable occasions, a decadent chocolate bomb dessert has forced me to serve as the bomb squad, and I almost flung myself bodily at it. The dense mass of chocolate detonated in my face, bursting with rich dark cocoa and raspberry scrapnel. The after-effects gave me such an ecstatic long-lasting chocolate buzz that I practically had double vision all day (and methinx my staff might have taken advantage of my state of sublime serenity to persuade me to sign some office requisitions without scrutinizing them too closely.) :eat2:


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## mossystate (Sep 9, 2009)

TallFatSue said:


> Definitely don't worry about eating a whole pie, or an entire cake for that matter. You're far from alone! From time to time I have been alerted to the presence of a freshly-baked pie which needed to be destroyed immediately, in order to save everyone else from temptation, so I did my duty. On a few notable occasions, a decadent chocolate bomb dessert has forced me to serve as the bomb squad, and I almost flung myself bodily at it. The dense mass of chocolate detonated in my face, bursting with rich dark cocoa and raspberry scrapnel. The after-effects gave me such an ecstatic long-lasting chocolate buzz that I practically had double vision all day (and methinx my staff might have taken advantage of my state of sublime serenity to persuade me to sign some office requisitions without scrutinizing them too closely.) :eat2:





Sue, I realize you never want to miss an opportunity to repeat yourself about how chocolate turns you into a human vibrator, but, Penny is talking about real PAIN. 

No, it doesn't do any good to have, on a loop, a tape in ones head that tells them to hate themselves...but...she has type 2 diabetes, and even if you did not know this, this post of hers here says that she wants to get to a healthier frame of mind.

You don't shove a picture of a bottle of vodka, and talk about wild times in some port of call, into the face of someone who obviously does not want to continue drinking so much. You have to understand this...I hope.
====


Penny...keep looking around, and ask for help when you need it.


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## Suze (Sep 9, 2009)

TallFatSue said:


> Definitely don't worry about eating a whole pie, or an entire cake for that matter.


considering she's diabetic, that's not the best advice.


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## TallFatSue (Sep 9, 2009)

mossystate said:


> Sue, I realize you never want to miss an opportunity to repeat yourself about how chocolate turns you into a human vibrator, but, Penny is talking about real PAIN.


Oky doky. If I'm not welcome around here, no need for me to hang around. Cheerio.


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## mossystate (Sep 9, 2009)

TallFatSue said:


> Oky doky. If I'm not welcome around here, no need for me to hang around. Cheerio.



I am sorry you did not care enough to understand what I was saying.


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 9, 2009)

TallFatSue said:


> Oky doky. If I'm not welcome around here, no need for me to hang around. Cheerio.



Sue, she didn't shove you out the door. She pointed out that your paragraph about eating a chocolate cake, given the circumstances, was insensitive.

Penny, I'm glad to see that you've stuck around


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## vardon_grip (Sep 9, 2009)

TallFatSue said:


> Oky doky. If I'm not welcome around here, no need for me to hang around. Cheerio.



You are ignoring the real issue and making it about something else. It's not about being welcome or not-you made a very insensitive comment. You may feel that it was helpful, but you ignored the message of the OP and your reply was extremely self serving.


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## James (Sep 9, 2009)

TallFatSue said:


> Definitely don't worry about eating a whole pie, or an entire cake for that matter. You're far from alone! From time to time I have been alerted to the presence of a freshly-baked pie which needed to be destroyed immediately, in order to save everyone else from temptation, so I did my duty. On a few notable occasions, a decadent chocolate bomb dessert has forced me to serve as the bomb squad, and I almost flung myself bodily at it. The dense mass of chocolate detonated in my face, bursting with rich dark cocoa and raspberry scrapnel. The after-effects gave me such an ecstatic long-lasting chocolate buzz that I practically had double vision all day (and methinx my staff might have taken advantage of my state of sublime serenity to persuade me to sign some office requisitions without scrutinizing them too closely.) :eat2:




Sue. This is one of the most heartless posts I've seen on dimensions. Just how do you think this kind of attitude is going to help someone when they've entered a hyperglycemic coma? I don't think you understand the distinction between genuinely useful positive support and (what reads like) fantasy fiction.


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## sweet&fat (Sep 9, 2009)

TallFatSue said:


> Oky doky. If I'm not welcome around here, no need for me to hang around. Cheerio.



Don't make this about you... your post was unbelievably callous. Creative fiction is fine, but waving how much you love cake in front of a diabetic struggling to control her eating is atrocious behavior. That's it, and you know it. 

I can't believe a real fat woman would treat another so unkindly. Way to make this all about you, TFS.


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## sweet&fat (Sep 9, 2009)

Hi Penny,

Welcome! I look forward to hearing more about you. The BBW Board is also a wonderful place to share experiences and start conversations about issues that are important to you. Hope you find the peace and strength you're looking for.


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## Miss Vickie (Sep 9, 2009)

sweet&fat said:


> Don't make this about you... your post was unbelievably callous. Creative fiction is fine, but waving how much you love cake in front of a diabetic struggling to control her eating is atrocious behavior. That's it, and you know it.
> 
> I can't believe a real fat woman would treat another so unkindly. Way to make this all about you, TFS.



No kidding. Thank you. I was going to say something, but figured it would fall on deaf ears. Turns out I was right. Telling someone it's "okay" to eat vast quantities of sugar while expounding on how much you love it is like telling someone with lung cancer that it's okay to smoke and expounding on how great smoking feels. 

Sue, this isn't about you, and no one is saying you're not welcome. What we are saying, however, is that sometimes sensitivity is a _good_ thing.


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## gangstadawg (Sep 9, 2009)

TallFatSue said:


> Don't worry too much about the disbelievers and the naysayers. The world has an oversupply of them. What is most important is that if *you* truly believe in *yourself*, there's no telling how far you might go in life. A positive attitude works wonders. I'm soooo glad I stumbled into that realization when I was in high school, and 35 years later life is A-OK.
> 
> It also pays to have a healthy sense of humor.
> 
> Definitely don't worry about eating a whole pie, or an entire cake for that matter. You're far from alone! From time to time I have been alerted to the presence of a freshly-baked pie which needed to be destroyed immediately, in order to save everyone else from temptation, so I did my duty. On a few notable occasions, a decadent chocolate bomb dessert has forced me to serve as the bomb squad, and I almost flung myself bodily at it. The dense mass of chocolate detonated in my face, bursting with rich dark cocoa and raspberry scrapnel. The after-effects gave me such an ecstatic long-lasting chocolate buzz that I practically had double vision all day (and methinx my staff might have taken advantage of my state of sublime serenity to persuade me to sign some office requisitions without scrutinizing them too closely.) :eat2:



holy shit thats prolly the most epic looking chocolate cake i have ever seen.


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## Surlysomething (Sep 9, 2009)

TallFatSue said:


> Oky doky. If I'm not welcome around here, no need for me to hang around. Cheerio.




You do realize that this is a forum and people have differing opinions and aren't afraid to voice them, right? You've done this 'see ya later' routine before. Why not admit your mistake for a change instead of thinking no one wants you around. It's kind of silly. We all need to be put in our place once in awhile. And you didn't know she was diabetic either so it's not as big of a deal as some are making it out to be.


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## moore2me (Sep 9, 2009)

TallFatSue said:


> Don't worry too much about the disbelievers and the naysayers. The world has an oversupply of them. What is most important is that if *you* truly believe in *yourself*, there's no telling how far you might go in life. A positive attitude works wonders. I'm soooo glad I stumbled into that realization when I was in high school, and 35 years later life is A-OK.
> 
> It also pays to have a healthy sense of humor.
> 
> Definitely don't worry about eating a whole pie, or an entire cake for that matter. You're far from alone! From time to time I have been alerted to the presence of a freshly-baked pie which needed to be destroyed immediately, in order to save everyone else from temptation, so I did my duty. On a few notable occasions, a decadent chocolate bomb dessert has forced me to serve as the bomb squad, and I almost flung myself bodily at it. The dense mass of chocolate detonated in my face, bursting with rich dark cocoa and raspberry scrapnel. The after-effects gave me such an ecstatic long-lasting chocolate buzz that I practically had double vision all day (and methinx my staff might have taken advantage of my state of sublime serenity to persuade me to sign some office requisitions without scrutinizing them too closely.) :eat2:




*I think I know that cake and it is a sugar free one isn't it Sue?*. Several of the grocery stores and bakeries in my town make some beautiful and delicious sugar free cakes. They also make sugar free pies and brownies. At my recreation club's monthly parties, we serve a sugar free sheet cake that you could not tell it was not made with real sugar (including the frosting).

And even more marvelous, my hubby and I put up a dozen jars of muscadine jelly Labor Day weekend using Sugar Free/Low Sugar Pectin by Surgel. I haven't opened any of the jars yet because the instructions said to wait a week, but the syrup tasted wonderful and was a lovely deep purple color. We used ½ Splenda and ½ Sugar in the recipe. (Its hard to get jelly to set without some sugar.)

And being a diabetic on remission myself, I do know that carbohydrates are converted to sugars in my digestive system. So eating a sugar free cake which has carbs and alcohol-based sugars will be converted to simple sugars in my gut. And, eating a whole sugar free cake will raised my blood sugar too (probably not as fast as a real sugar cake, so I would not get the blood sugar spike). One of the worst side effects of eating too much sugar free cake if it has the alcohol based sugars is that it may cause diarrhea. Also, some of those funny, fake sugars that are engineered in the lab are poisonous to pets like the adorable little dog in Penny's avatar.


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## Wagimawr (Sep 10, 2009)

TallFatSue said:


> Oky doky. If I'm not welcome around here, no need for me to hang around. Cheerio.








Welcome, Penny. Dims has its share of problems and problem people, but there are plenty just like you that have benefited majorly from the good vibes here.  Lots of learning to be done!


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## annabellethecat (Sep 10, 2009)

Wagimawr said:


> Welcome, Penny. Dims has its share of problems and problem people, but there are plenty just like you that have benefited majorly from the good vibes here.  Lots of learning to be done!



this is just my humble opinion, but I feel that Sue is being unfairly bashed. Her joke may have been in poor taste, no pun intended:eat1:but it was just a joke and I don't think her intention was to hurt anyone.We all make mistakes.


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## Tooz (Sep 10, 2009)

sweet&fat said:


> Don't make this about you... your post was unbelievably callous. Creative fiction is fine, but waving how much you love cake in front of a diabetic struggling to control her eating is atrocious behavior. That's it, and you know it.
> 
> I can't believe a real fat woman would treat another so unkindly. Way to make this all about you, TFS.



Go go, my darling :wubu:


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## Adamantoise (Sep 10, 2009)

penny said:


> i recently did a post on here about EATING A WHOLE PIE! and then beeing disgusted with myself.
> well,
> the post was true! and i didnt mean any thing bad about weight issues with anyone but me! i was told about this site.i logged on and liked it ALOT! i wanted to love myself like the people on this site. but didnt know how. i was ALWAYS made to feel FAT was UGLY. and i foun d on this site it's not. it's beautiful. and happy. all i wanted was to learn how.i'm SORRY for any misunderstanding.



Welcome again,Ms Penny. :happy:


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## Blackjack (Sep 10, 2009)

annabellethecat said:


> this is just my humble opinion, but I feel that Sue is being unfairly bashed. Her joke may have been in poor taste, no pun intended:eat1:but it was just a joke and I don't think her intention was to hurt anyone.We all make mistakes.



You apparently have missed the numerous times she's done the exact same thing.


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## Tracy (Sep 10, 2009)

penny said:


> i recently did a post on here about EATING A WHOLE PIE! and then beeing disgusted with myself.
> well,
> the post was true! and i didnt mean any thing bad about weight issues with anyone but me! i was told about this site.i logged on and liked it ALOT! i wanted to love myself like the people on this site. but didnt know how. i was ALWAYS made to feel FAT was UGLY. and i foun d on this site it's not. it's beautiful. and happy. all i wanted was to learn how.i'm SORRY for any misunderstanding.



Hi Penny! I'm so glad that you posted this post. I have been watching the other post that you have put on the forums and reading all the things that people have said to you(very disappointed with what some people have typed). It is good to see however that some have apologized. I really hate it that you are feeling down on yourself and feeling disgusted. Its not cool to feel that way about yourself. I'm not a doctor, psychiatrist or a diabetic so what I'm about to say is just my opinion. I think that you need to start yourself a daily routine of telling yourself that you are beautiful and that you love yourself. Get in front of a mirror, look at yourself and pick something about yourself and build on it from there. Then everyday do this. Tell yourself that you are beauiful. Find things about your body that you like and tell yourself that you like it or even love it. God did not make you and put you on this earth to be sad and feeling disgusted with yourself. Try to find things to do daily or find people in your community to get involved with. Surround yourself with positive people and those people don't have to be people on a FAT forum. *I think you will soon learn and see that not all that glitters is gold when involved with these forums.* You need to look deep inside yourself and find what makes Penny happy. Because I assure you when Penny is happy with herself then it will make handling this dumbass world that we live in a little bit easier. Self confidence can and will take you far. My personal motto is if you don't like me fat you surly are not going to like me skinny. Because either way I'm still the same person on the inside and Penny that's what is most important. What is in your heart. I know a lot of people don't agree with "its the inside that matters" but in my life I have found this statement to be very true. We can all change our appearence on the outside but if we are not happy with who we are on the inside then changing the outside is not going to matter and the change you made to the outside will have been done in vain. With you being a diabetic maybe you should try some different things with this as well. If you feel that urge to have that whole pie then maybe you might try to get up and walk away from what you are doing. Try and change your mind set. Maybe get a glass of water, go outside and get some fresh air or do anything to get your mind off the pie or whatever it is you are thinking about eating that you should not. Again I think starting with one daily change will lead to weekly changes and weekly changes will lead to life long changes. I do hope you get to feeling better about yourself. We all deserve to be happy. So welcome to Dims, have fun and don't take everything that is said to you here to heart. We all were new here at one time. :bow:


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## vardon_grip (Sep 10, 2009)

annabellethecat said:


> this is just my humble opinion, but I feel that Sue is being unfairly bashed. Her joke may have been in poor taste, no pun intended:eat1:but it was just a joke and I don't think her intention was to hurt anyone.We all make mistakes.



I disagree that it was intended as a joke. I agree that it was in poor taste. Yes, we all make mistakes. We can learn from them, make amends and move on or we can avoid any responsibility. I think responsibility was avoided in this case.


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## Miss Vickie (Sep 10, 2009)

Blackjack said:


> You apparently have missed the numerous times she's done the exact same thing.



And been called on it, too.


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## Surlysomething (Sep 10, 2009)

Where did Penny mention having Diabetes in her original post? I don't see it. Maybe in the THREAD she posted before, but not this one.

I think people are being harsh. There was encouraging, yes. But I don't think Sue was aware of her illness. 


We should stop bashing here, peeps.


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## snuggletiger (Sep 10, 2009)

Ok I am lost I read the OP and I didn't see where she mentioned diabetes. In fact I didn't see any mention of it until Sue's attempt at humor.


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## Miss Vickie (Sep 10, 2009)

The other thread that she started had a lot to do with her diabetes, and in fact that was her reason for coming here, to help come to terms with her eating, her feelings about her eating, etc etc etc.

And Surlysomething, I agree that perhaps we were too harsh (although given the context of her diabetes, I don't think so), but you know you haven't always been all rainbows and puppies either.  I guess I don't like being scolded by someone who has her own issues with treating people with kindness. Know what I mean?

Nobody's perfect, I suppose. Not even me (shocking, I know!) 

Sue, if you didn't know Penny was a diabetic, then my apologies. If you DID know, then my comments stand.


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## Surlysomething (Sep 10, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> .
> 
> And Surlysomething, I agree that perhaps we were too harsh (although given the context of her diabetes, I don't think so), but you know you haven't always been all rainbows and puppies either.  I guess I don't like being scolded by someone who has her own issues with treating people with kindness. Know what I mean?



There is *NO mention of her diabetes in her OP*. Why go attack someone for something they didn't know. It doesn't make sense to me. But it's not surprising that you got a jab in about me, I could have called that. 

And all this from seemingly intelligent people. I was only pointing out that there was no actual backup in this thread for the personal issues people have with Sue. But go ahead and make it about me, unfortunately I don't expect more.


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 10, 2009)

Well, since we all know what a timid, shy mouse of a wallflower our Surly is, I'm going to go to bat for her and say that she's always been nice to ME, and we all know, that is the only thing that matters 

I think it is possible that Sue just didn't know that Penny is diabetic. 



Miss Vickie said:


> The other thread that she started had a lot to do with her diabetes, and in fact that was her reason for coming here, to help come to terms with her eating, her feelings about her eating, etc etc etc.
> 
> And Surlysomething, I agree that perhaps we were too harsh (although given the context of her diabetes, I don't think so), but you know you haven't always been all rainbows and puppies either.  I guess I don't like being scolded by someone who has her own issues with treating people with kindness. Know what I mean?
> 
> ...


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## snuggletiger (Sep 10, 2009)

This whole "you should have known this about that person if you had read another thread" routine sounds pretty condescending. I don't know about about all of you but I don't have the time to read every single thread. Perhaps if real life slowed down enough I could. Like most we pick and choose what threads to read. I read the OP post and the subsequent ones and thought it was nice for Penny to join. Then I read Sue's post and I found it funny, I thought the point was to be happy with yourself and enjoy who you are. Then it became the wham "you're a bad person for putting a picture of a cake didn't you read these other threads" etc. 

So to get back on track. Welcome to the thread Penny. 
To the armchair doctors in the thread: Sorry I didn't go seek out to read more threads about the maladies affecting other people. I apologize for not being a clairvoyant. Next time someone posts something I will be sure to diagnose their medical history. I will attempt to see if they suffer from psychological maladies and try to make a connection between any perceived mental illness and the need for WLS or some radical treatment.


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## Sugar (Sep 10, 2009)

It doesn't matter if Sue knew Penny has type 2 diabetes or not. 

In this particular thread there was no mention of diabetes, but that is besides the point. Penny felt bad about eating a whole pie...if someone feels bad about something...talking about how wonderful it is to do that very thing is not only without thought but any sort of empathy for her feelings. 

What's worse is that rather than saying I'm sorry she just up and left. I'm not sure I'd go to bat for someone who won't even muster up an apology. The ability to cut and run isn't a very endearing quality.

==

Penny, I hope you've had a chance to look around and we are glad you're here.


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## Miss Vickie (Sep 10, 2009)

Surlysomething said:


> There is *NO mention of her diabetes in her OP*. Why go attack someone for something they didn't know. It doesn't make sense to me. But it's not surprising that you got a jab in about me, I could have called that.
> 
> And all this from seemingly intelligent people. I was only pointing out that there was no actual backup in this thread for the personal issues people have with Sue. But go ahead and make it about me, unfortunately I don't expect more.



Surlysomething, I have absolutely no problem with you at all. I don't understand why you'd somehow predict that I'd want to attack you, but keep in mind that you were the one who came out swinging at those of us who responded in a way that you deemed inappropriate. But have I ever been anything but kind and supportive to you? Have we ever had "words"? I thought things were fine with us, but I guess I must have missed something. My only point, vis a vis your response in this thread, is that I've noticed that you've occasionally been a little sassy to people here as well. 

And yes, I _am_ intelligent, something my diabetic patients happen to appreciate. Thanks for noticing.


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## mossystate (Sep 10, 2009)

mossystate said:


> ...but...*she has type 2 diabetes*, and* even if you did not know this, this post of hers here says that she wants to get to a healthier frame of mind.*




It was Sue wanting to disregard, once again, struggles of others, because she wants others to have this oddly blind ' positive ' attitude..which is really just her reciting, over and over, her own resume, and not seeing the person in front of her.

There was great pain in this post of Penny's. Any caring person can see it. I just hope she would never work a suicide prevention hotline. I can just hear the, " Oh, just feel good about yourself. You drink too much and you feel desperate? Oh my GOD! Let me tell you about this time in Acapulco. Have you ever had brand X of tequila? Why don't you buy a bottle and lock yourself in a closet!! ".

I think out here in Dimsland, if any ...any....issue is about food ( in part ), there is a disconnect. There is a " oh, don't let society boss you around, you enjoy what you wanna enjoy "...and then the person struggling is left to just slink back into the shadows, as they are obviously not a happy fattie. 

It's not like this is the first post of TFS's that I had ever read.


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## Surlysomething (Sep 10, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> Surlysomething, I have absolutely no problem with you at all. I don't understand why you'd somehow predict that I'd want to attack you, but keep in mind that you were the one who came out swinging at those of us who responded in a way that you deemed inappropriate. But have I ever been anything but kind and supportive to you? Have we ever had "words"? I thought things were fine with us, but I guess I must have missed something. My only point, vis a vis your response in this thread, is that I've noticed that you've occasionally been a little sassy to people here as well.
> 
> And yes, I _am_ intelligent, something my diabetic patients happen to appreciate. Thanks for noticing.




And I have no problem with you, that's why I was surprised you turned it personal on me. 

For the record, in my brain I figured ANYONE would go the personal route, EXCEPT you. Haha.

Such is life on the interwebs.


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## smithnwesson (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm a diabetic. I've also had people pissed off at me continuously since I was in about the 3rd grade for saying things that I thought exhibited my scintillating wit, but were perceived by others as rude and insensitive. 

Do any of ya'll think that Sue *really* intended to insult or offend Penny? I don't. 

Can any of ya'll picture Sue with her fingers poised over her keyboard, gritting her teeth and saying, "Ha! This'll clean *her* clock!" I can't.

Cut her a little slack.

A tempest in a teapot. . .

Just my 2¢. - Jim


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## mossystate (Sep 10, 2009)

smith...I would not have the reaction I did if this was a first post like this from the OP.....people can misstep...people can think they are reading something they are not................................this was not one of those situations.............again...someone is saying that they feel so down about their actions, you don't go into a trance and spew about a bakery you molested


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## Miss Vickie (Sep 10, 2009)

Surlysomething said:


> And I have no problem with you, that's why I was surprised you turned it personal on me.
> 
> For the record, in my brain I figured ANYONE would go the personal route, EXCEPT you. Haha.
> 
> Such is life on the interwebs.



(The mind, it boggles).

But didn't you start all this when you called us out for our response to Sue's post? Sure, you didn't mention names, instead using the term "peeps" but it was clear who you were talking to and what you were talking about. There are ways to do that without calling us "harsh" (which is, indeed, a personal judgment). 

FWIW, I didn't feel that remarking on your own interactions with people here at Dimensions was considered "personal", particularly when you use a term like "surly" in your name. (People who are all about rainbows and puppies don't generally refer to themselves as "surly", do they?) Discussing someone's personal struggles, health problems, relationship issues, etc. is personal. But saying that you have had your own strident interactions with people here at Dimensions... is that "personal"? Really?? You saw that as a personal attack? I'm sorry, because it wasn't meant that way, but your comments to us about being too harsh also stung. If my comment to you was "going personal" then so was yours to me, particularly your parting shot.

Topping it off with a snide term like "seemingly intelligent" was more than a little unnecessary, don't you think? Attacking someone's intellect, when did that become okay?

To be clear: This isn't the first time that Sue has -- _I feel _-- responded in a flippant, insensitive way to someone's pain. That kind of behavior pisses me off. Telling someone who has an unhealthy relationship with food that "sure, it's okay, eat what you want" and waxing rhapsodic about a buzz from a binge isn't cool, in my opinion, and in fact it's counter productive. Sure, we don't want to beat someone when they're down, and so I would never say to someone like Penny "You're a bad person for eating a pie", because she's not, but enabling them by saying it's "okay" when it clearly is causing her pain is really not helpful.

That's my issue with Sue's remark. I have nothing against her personally, but I don't like how she -- for whatever reason -- makes light of other people's pain. As a human and a nurse, that kind of shit pisses me off and I will call people on it.


Edited to add to Surlysomething: I'm sorry if I upset, hurt or disappointed you. It really wasn't my intent. I'd rather keep this about Penny, though, if we can. So again, apologies for upsetting you, but I still stand by what I said to/about Sue. I don't think she meant any harm, but still... her remarks were not helpful. And neither are ours.


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## Sugar (Sep 10, 2009)

smithnwesson said:


> I'm a diabetic. I've also had people pissed off at me continuously since I was in about the 3rd grade for saying things that I thought exhibited my scintillating wit, but were perceived by others as rude and insensitive.
> 
> Do any of ya'll think that Sue *really* intended to insult or offend Penny? I don't.
> 
> ...



The problem was that she didn't think AT ALL...not even a little bit. Then to put some of that icing on the cake she didn't even apologize. 

It's one thing to misstep...as you can see several people said things to Penny in a different post and they said they were sorry for their misinterpretation. Thoughtless people say thoughtless things and then don't think to say sorry.


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## Jes (Sep 10, 2009)

You know, I think what people may be reacting to negatively here is this---and I'm going to try to express my opinion while also being respectful---some posters use almost every single response to a post as an opportunity to make it about themselves. You ate a whole cake and feel bad? Well then let me tell you about the time I did it and felt Great! You lost your mother and are grieving? Well then let me tell you about how my Still Living mother and I bicker and I hate it [what--so maybe you're lucky your mom died??]. You're in college in 2009 and having trouble dating and are very sad about it, what should you do? well then let me tell you all again about how I met my wonderful, loving husband in college 30 years ago. 
Sure, a lot of threads go astray, some people make cracks, or go off on tangents, but all the time? In almost every single post? I think the body of work of some who post at Dims really does show that this happens, and it's frustrating to people who are very involved (i.e., read heavily) at Dims. They see it over and over again. It doesn't matter what the topic of the thread is--in just a few sentences it'll be about the responder, not the OP or the OQ[uestion]. 
So I don't know that the problem is necessarily an insensitive attempt at a joke, or offering an opinion without all of the facts, or typing in a foreign language, or going on a cruise. It's more the fact that no matter what the original post is about, it will generally and swiftly be made into another opportunity to tell one of a handful of personal anecdotes. Worst thing in the world? No, of course not. Annoying? Sure.
Just my opinion.


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## Carrie (Sep 10, 2009)

Jes said:


> You know, I think what people may be reacting to negatively here is this---and I'm going to try to express my opinion while also being respectful---some posters use almost every single response to a post as an opportunity to make it about themselves. You ate a whole cake and feel bad? Well then let me tell you about the time I did it and felt Great! You lost your mother and are grieving? Well then let me tell you about how my Still Living mother and I bicker and I hate it [what--so maybe you're lucky your mom died??]. You're in college in 2009 and having trouble dating and are very sad about it, what should you do? well then let me tell you all again about how I met my wonderful, loving husband in college 30 years ago.
> Sure, a lot of threads go astray, some people make cracks, or go off on tangents, but all the time? In almost every single post? I think the body of work of some who post at Dims really does show that this happens, and it's frustrating to people who are very involved (i.e., read heavily) at Dims. They see it over and over again. It doesn't matter what the topic of the thread is--in just a few sentences it'll be about the responder, not the OP or the OQ[uestion].
> So I don't know that the problem is necessarily an insensitive attempt at a joke, or offering an opinion without all of the facts, or typing in a foreign language, or going on a cruise. It's more the fact that no matter what the original post is about, it will generally and swiftly be made into another opportunity to tell one of a handful of personal anecdotes. Worst thing in the world? No, of course not. Annoying? Sure.
> Just my opinion.


Bingo. Sometimes it's just a matter of saying, "I'm so sorry you're feeling pain, and I hope being here can ultimately help you to feel better in some way." It doesn't always have to be, "Well, speaking of pain, let me tell YOU about this time *I* was feeling pain, and how I fixed it." And actually, that's not even a valid comparison, in this case. It was more like, "Oh, really, you're in pain and you ate a cake? Well, speaking of cake, let me tell YOU about this time I ate a whole cake!". I was unaware of the OP's diabetic condition when I read Sue's response, and it still made me absolutely cringe. 

Sue, I'm sure you're reading, so let me just say this isn't a matter of you being welcome or not or people wanting you to self-ban once again or not. You said something pretty insensitive, people called you on it. You can either take your ball and go home or woman up and take responsibility here.


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## mossystate (Sep 10, 2009)

The cycle of life.


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## Carrie (Sep 10, 2009)

mossystate said:


> The cycle of life.


It's the cyyyyyyyycle of liiiiiife! Wait, wrong song.



ETA: 'Cause I don't want to be a thread dick. Penny, I really do hope this board is able to help you learn and feel some comfort, and at the very least, remind you that you are not alone. Enjoy your time here; we're glad to have you with us.


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## Tina (Sep 10, 2009)

Sue, did you realize that Penny is diabetic? If so, it's a problem and I really don't understand why you'd condone it; if not, it's still kind of a weird post for you to make, but not nearly the same as if you knew. I see that Penny doesn't mention it in her original post.


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## moore2me (Sep 11, 2009)

Does anybody think that all this attention might scare the beejezus out of Penny? (Most of us are old warhorses with thousands of posts and the poor girl doesn't even have ten yet.) 

View attachment woves.penny1.JPG


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## mossystate (Sep 11, 2009)

moore2me said:


> Does anybody think that all this attention might scare the beejezus out of Penny? (Most of us are old warhorses with thousands of posts and the poor girl doesn't even have ten yet.)



She could also stumble into a number of areas of Dimensions that might scare the hell out of her. You must be really...really...afraid for her. She is an adult. I will treat her as such. People are holding out a hand. To not address something that is very damaging to those in crisis...it just won't happen.


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## Donna (Sep 11, 2009)

Tina said:


> Sue, did you realize that Penny is diabetic? If so, it's a problem and I really don't understand why you'd condone it; if not, it's still kind of a weird post for you to make, but not nearly the same as if you knew. I see that Penny doesn't mention it in her original post.



And if it was a genuine faux pas, the better response might have been, "My apologies, I was not aware."


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## Jes (Sep 11, 2009)

moore2me said:


> *I think I know that cake and it is a sugar free one isn't it Sue?*. .



It's not. Look at the site it came from for info. I know sugarfree treats do exist and I'm glad you've found some you like.

Penny, I think one of the worst parts about food addictions, eating disorders or restricted diets is that, unlike other addictions, we can't ever NOT eat food. I have a lot of respect for all of you at Dims who are dealing with diabetes. It's got to be a real trial, so just take every day (or every meal) one at a time.


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## AnnMarie (Sep 11, 2009)

I'm sorry, there's a lot of dancing around the issue - which is many, many people strongly believe that Sue is not who she says. The many references to this post seeming to be a work of "weight gain fiction" indicate exactly what many believe is going on. 

I personally have no opinion other than the poster has been consistent for a very long period of time (much longer than many have even been here) and without something to prove otherwise, I'll keep my torch unlit. 

The post made here was off base with no prior knowledge - and insensitive if the diabetic issue was known, but the post alone - made by another - would not have been the subject of this type of rancor. The poster and how many feel, or think they know, about her is the crux here. 


And with that - I once again hope that Penny finds a way to have a healthier relationship with food and her own feelings on her body - it's a good thing.


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## cheekyjez (Sep 11, 2009)

It's really scary to look at an empty plate and think "Did I eat all that?" Even leaving aside the diabetes, the thought that you don't have control over your own actions is terrifying. 

So Penny - in a sense, it's healthy that you're scared because it means you're reaching out. Having a community to support you is useful, but if you can get to talk to a doctor or counsellor about how to manage your life with diabetes, that would probably be wise. It's really important to be in control of what you're doing - then you can start to have fun without worrying about going off the rails.

This has been a service of the on-topic brigade.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Sep 11, 2009)

Thank you AM for posting this. I couldn't have said it without getting my ass kicked. But I agree 100%. Sue has always been a very supportive poster - what's happening here is a witch hunt.


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## mossystate (Sep 11, 2009)

Speaking for myself ( yeah, I have nobody on my payroll ), long before there were whispers about whether or not she was ' real ', I did not like the way she pretty much always took an opportunity to make it about herself, when a fat woman struggled with something. And not just the supposed ' positive ' attitude. It bordered on the sleazy...never missing a chance to tell some woman how she should just suck it up ( jig-jig-jiggling all the way, cramming cake in your face ) and be haaaapppppy! There is a real disconnect of caring, and true understanding. 

So, you see, for me, it is nothing about " this post alone ". Even for mods, I bet it is rare for them to ban someone for one post alone. Some of us have seen this from TFS...over and over. The other stuff just adds to all of it. It is not...for me...the meat of the matter.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Sep 11, 2009)

So what?? Put her on ignore. Who made you the friggin posting police. Jesus Christ. 




mossystate said:


> Speaking for myself ( yeah, I have nobody on my payroll ), long before there were whispers about whether or not she was ' real ', I did not like the way she pretty much always took an opportunity to make it about herself, when a fat woman struggled with something. And not just the supposed ' positive ' attitude. It bordered on the sleazy...never missing a chance to tell some woman how she should just suck it up ( jig-jig-jiggling all the way, cramming cake in your face ) and be haaaapppppy! There is a real disconnect of caring, and true understanding.
> 
> So, you see, for me, it is nothing about " this post alone ". Even for mods, I bet it is rare for them to ban someone for one post alone. Some of us have seen this from TFS...over and over. The other stuff just adds to all of it. It is not...for me...the meat of the matter.


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## mossystate (Sep 11, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> So what?? Put her on ignore. Who made you the friggin posting police. Jesus Christ.




And you wouldn't have seen my post, if you had followed through on any of the 300 times you told me you were putting me on ignore.

Sandie...this is not you ' supporting ' TFS. This is you ticked off for your own personal reasons.

The rest of us have something to say. Now, I am back to the issue(s) at hand. No more PM's from you, either. Thanks. Just put me on ignore. Please.


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## cheekyjez (Sep 11, 2009)

Sandie, I think the issue is not that TFS is offending mossy, but that TFS's post (and others) was insensitive to Penny's concerns, and ended up totally derailing the thread. Mossy ignoring TFS doesn't change that situation in any way.


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## tonynyc (Sep 11, 2009)

cheekyjez said:


> Sandie, I think the issue is not that TFS is offending mossy, but that TFS's post (and others) was insensitive to Penny's concerns, and ended up totally derailing the thread. Mossy ignoring TFS doesn't change that situation in any way.



I see your new to the Boards and Welcome... 
The Ignore feature is the next best thing (to hot sauce) gives you a Cliff Notes Experience to each thread. Think of it as a flavor enhancer for your Dims Experiece. You read what you want to read. :happy:

----------------

_Some Advice for Penny _

Post your heath concerns on the Health Forum. There are threads there and I'm sure the folks here would be happy to support you in your struggles.

-----------------

*Now in the Fairness of Equal "Animal" time - A Pooch Picture is needed *








*Now this Adorable Pooch may have stolen a very Popular Saying - but, just for today only *


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## penny (Sep 12, 2009)

okay!!
so i don't word thing's right. and i don't do it for attention or spite or any other reason. i am a fat woman and i didnt know how to love myself first of all! and now i do!!!!! i realize i AM BEAUTIFUL inside and out!!! i have come to realize this through this site! but, boy can some of you be mean. i want friends, that's all i wanted big women that understood what it's like in the real world.but if you dont want to accept me i will not log on this site anymore.


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## Jes (Sep 12, 2009)

Penny--
kooky back-and-forth posts that seem like bickering (because, well...they ARE bickering) and topics that make you feel lost and all manner of flotsam and jetsom are just a part of the fora of Dims. It's honestly not about you. Not to me, at least. Some may not have liked your early posts, but you did nothing with malice, so as you say, you don't need to feel any shame or apologize for where you are in life. 
The truth is, there is a lot of bickering here. But there are also good things. And funny things. And sad things. And creepy things. And helpful things. All in all, a microcosm of the larger world (at least the online world). So if you want to see more of the good stuff, hang in there, and just read a little bit. Then again, if you've had your fill, that's ok too. You don't owe any of us anything. I, for one, have absolutely no problem with you and I think there are many, many others who'd agree with me. I think it's been said before, but try the Health board, and the Fashion/Clothing board. I find them both helpful and entertaining! They showcase some of the best contributions here.


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## mossystate (Sep 12, 2009)

Penny, if you read the posts, everything that I have seen that was about you has been very supportive.

The other stuff had to do with something that a number of us did not like, as we felt it was not a nice thing to say to you, as you are struggling. Perhaps you are mixing up what is what in this thread? Lots of people are telling you to find some good things for and about yourself.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Sep 12, 2009)

cheekyjez said:


> Sandie, I think the issue is not that TFS is offending mossy, but that TFS's post (and others) was insensitive to Penny's concerns, and ended up totally derailing the thread. Mossy ignoring TFS doesn't change that situation in any way.



Sue has been here a long time. I have never known her to be unkind. Mossy ignoring her would change things - she wouldn't be going around the boards protesting everything Sue posts. These are discussion boards, if you don't like someones opinion put them on ignore. Most people understand that. However a few think if your opinion is different they must run you off the boards. How many people have to beat Sue over the head with "how insensitive" her post was????????? I think one or 2 would do. But that isn't the way it's done here. You must beat her over the head with a descenting opinion and then post condescending pictures and get personal. And if that's still not enough - harass her all over the boards wherever she posts.


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## Shosh (Sep 12, 2009)

penny said:


> okay!!
> so i don't word thing's right. and i don't do it for attention or spite or any other reason. i am a fat woman and i didnt know how to love myself first of all! and now i do!!!!! i realize i AM BEAUTIFUL inside and out!!! i have come to realize this through this site! but, boy can some of you be mean. i want friends, that's all i wanted big women that understood what it's like in the real world.but if you dont want to accept me i will not log on this site anymore.



Some here are wonderful, and some are very mean. You just have to be selective in who you choose to listen to. It works for me.

I am glad that you are growing in self esteem Penny. As I said I am glad that you have chosen to stick around, I was worried that you would not be back.


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## Shosh (Sep 12, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Sue has been here a long time. I have never known her to be unkind. Mossy ignoring her would change things - she wouldn't be going around the boards protesting everything Sue posts. These are discussion boards, if you don't like someones opinion put them on ignore. Most people understand that. However a few think if your opinion is different they must run you off the boards. How many people have to beat Sue over the head with "how insensitive" her post was????????? I think one or 2 would do. But that isn't the way it's done here. You must beat her over the head with a descenting opinion and then post condescending pictures and get personal. And if that's still not enough - harass her all over the boards wherever she posts.



We all post things from time to time that could be deemed inappropriate. 
What Sue posted was probably just that, but she has also contributed a lot of positive material in her time here, that has probably helped other women to feel better about themselves.
It can be overkill sometimes here, in terms of people reprimanding others.


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## penny (Sep 12, 2009)

thanks!! i think i will stay awhile. im having fun learning to love my body. will post a pic. when i learn how to program my camera phone to my blue tooth and internet.


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## littlefairywren (Sep 12, 2009)

penny said:


> thanks!! i think i will stay awhile. im having fun learning to love my body. will post a pic. when i learn how to program my camera phone to my blue tooth and internet.



Hi Penny, do stay. When I found dims I was at a very low point and am so glad I stayed too. This place is amazing in relation to how much better it can make you feel about yourself!! There are some truly amazing people here and you will work out who they are in your own time


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## DeniseW (Sep 12, 2009)

Tony, God knows that you need your graphics to make it seem like you're clever but I'm confused as to how a picture of a dog with a bite me hat on has anything at all to do with the subject at hand.... I know you want to believe that people think you're witty and all that but sometimes you baffle the hell out of me






tonynyc said:


> I see your new to the Boards and Welcome...
> The Ignore feature is the next best thing (to hot sauce) gives you a Cliff Notes Experience to each thread. Think of it as a flavor enhancer for your Dims Experiece. You read what you want to read. :happy:
> 
> ----------------
> ...


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## Wagimawr (Sep 12, 2009)

Maybe Tony's adopting biodiesel as a hobby.


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## Shosh (Sep 12, 2009)

Pics of doggies are ok.

Some here post the most revolting gifs, that make them look like some kind of creepy pervert with zero social skills, but they are not removed.


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## Blackjack (Sep 12, 2009)

Susannah said:


> Pics of doggies are ok.
> 
> Some here post the most revolting gifs, that make them look like some kind of creepy pervert with zero social skills, but they are not removed.



If you have an issue with me and my sense of humor (as you've already noted here) there's better ways of stating it than being passive-aggresive as you usually are.


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## tonynyc (Sep 12, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> Tony, God knows that you need your graphics to make it seem like you're clever but I'm confused as to how a picture of a dog with a bite me hat on has anything at all to do with the subject at hand.... I know you want to believe that people think you're witty and all that but sometimes you baffle the hell out of me




_Well- a Pooch picture was missing from this thread, and the Bite Me is in reference to Sandie Z's famous signature. I figured she would find it amusing. 

Now with respect to the picture going off subject - this occured long before the appearence of the Pooch Picture. _



Wagimawr said:


> Maybe Tony's adopting biodiesel as a hobby.



_LOL - then we'd have to resurrect Hyde Park & with duelling pics and gifs _


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Sep 12, 2009)

And I appreciate it Tony - it made me laugh.


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## msbard90 (Sep 12, 2009)

Oh Penny!
Look beyond all that Sue stuff (it wasn't meant to hurt your feelings, and I know you know it  ) and look beyond all the mean people on here. I understand that you just want to find a happy medium, where you can be healthy (not necessarily skin and bones, or crazy athlete) and accepting of your size. In that previous post it seems as if you were "disgusted" with yourself because you weren't treating your body as good as you know you could have. But we all have slip ups, a lot of us go on binge eating kicks... and I know that it isn't healthy especially if you have type 2 diabetes. But everyone, even you is entitled to fall sometimes, and it was great of you to come online for help and support. We all want you to be healthy, and I am glad that you are trying to be healthy too. Don't run away just yet... there are a lot of nice and caring people on this site. I was in your shoes at a time recently. There are a lot of grumpy people here, but they have good intentions too.... Keep posting,Penny, because we are all interested.


much love


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## Carrie (Sep 13, 2009)

AnnMarie said:


> I'm sorry, there's a lot of dancing around the issue - which is many, many people strongly believe that Sue is not who she says. The many references to this post seeming to be a work of "weight gain fiction" indicate exactly what many believe is going on.
> 
> I personally have no opinion other than the poster has been consistent for a very long period of time (much longer than many have even been here) and without something to prove otherwise, I'll keep my torch unlit.
> 
> ...



Speaking on behalf of the torch-wielding villagers, I have to respectfully disagree with you here, AM. I think the whole issue of who Sue is or isn't is kind of a red herring in this particular situation, and not the root problem for a lot of us who took issue with what she posted. She could be a platypus with a keyboard, and it wouldn't make what she wrote any less aggravating to me. In real life, it bugs me when people take every opportunity to turn a conversation towards themselves, and it bugs me online, too. It bugs me even more when it happens in such a way that it becomes potentially hurtful to someone else, as I perceived it here. I fully admit, it might be because I have my own emotional issues with food that I continue to work on, and Sue's post may have touched on a hot button there, and I expect it did the same for others. But please know, my issue (and I think that of many others posting in this thread) had _everything_ to do with what she said and its context.


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## smithnwesson (Sep 13, 2009)

Well, I liked it (and have stolen it).







 - Jim


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## smithnwesson (Sep 13, 2009)

Well, I liked it (and have stolen it).






 - Jim


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## DeniseW (Sep 13, 2009)

so clever you had to do it twice....I'm not saying I don't like pics of doggies or anything like that but I don't get why there has to be so many gifs all the time, is it because you can't say what you think without them? Most of them make no sense at all or are just plain absurd. Why not just say nothing at all then? I guess this is one thing I'll never understand.


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## smithnwesson (Sep 13, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> so clever you had to do it twice....I'm not saying I don't like pics of doggies or anything like that but I don't get why there has to be so many gifs all the time, is it because you can't say what you think without them? Most of them make no sense at all or are just plain absurd. Why not just say nothing at all then? I guess this is one thing I'll never understand.



Just so nice, I had to do it twice.  Sorry about that, too late to edit it now.


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## Weeze (Sep 13, 2009)

Whoa.
Forum Bullies thread part 2.


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## DeniseW (Sep 13, 2009)

this is bullying light.....lol


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## Weeze (Sep 13, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> this is bullying light.....lol



lol for now.
i feels a storm a'brewin


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 13, 2009)

krismiss said:


> lol for now.
> i feels a storm a'brewin



Oh quiet down I wanna hear this.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Sep 13, 2009)

thatgirl08 said:


> Oh quiet down I wanna hear this.



It's a battle that will be fought with out of context photos and gifs.


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## tonynyc (Sep 13, 2009)

_Time to grab your fav snack and enjoy the show_


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## DeniseW (Sep 13, 2009)

well, at least your consistent, no battles here, just trying to understand but you continue on if it makes you feel all smart witty and cool.....





tonynyc said:


> _Time to grab your fav snack and enjoy the show_


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## tonynyc (Sep 13, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> well, at least your consistent, no battles here, just trying to understand but you continue on if it makes you feel all smart witty and cool.....



Nothing complicated - grab a snack and enjoy the show on whatever future "gifs" or "pictures" may follow... 

There's no rocket science involved and it's not about feeling cool or uncool. If pictures or gifs aren't your thing - that's your choice.


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## Santaclear (Sep 13, 2009)

I prefer .gifs over real life and social interaction. I once tried dating a .gif.


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## tonynyc (Sep 13, 2009)

Santaclear said:


> I prefer .gifs over real life and social interaction. I once tried dating a .gif.



Was it a Big Gif?


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## Santaclear (Sep 13, 2009)

tonynyc said:


> Was it a Big Gif?



It looked big on the screen.


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## littlefairywren (Sep 13, 2009)

tonynyc said:


> _Time to grab your fav snack and enjoy the show_



Hey, I like the .gifs, specially the corn eating pussy cat! Keep em coming, besides they lighten the mood


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## tonynyc (Sep 13, 2009)

kmdkml said:


> Hey, I like the .gifs, specially the corn eating pussy cat! Keep em coming, besides they lighten the mood



Thanks... also Popcorn in moderation is one of the reccommended snacks for Diabetics.

*Seasoned Popcorn*

_We love popcorn and wish to share some interesting ways to season it without adding calories or fat. You'll need a hot-air popper to make the popcorn (or you can use a popper that calls for 1 teaspoon (5 ml) of canola oil -- but that adds a fat exchange).

Using 3 cups (31 g) unseasoned popped corn, 1 carbohydrate (1 bread/starch) exchange_

*Seasoned Popcorn Recipes Below*

*Don't think the kitty will care for popcorn though*

Popcorn Diabetic Recipes


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## rainyday (Sep 14, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> ...I don't get why there has to be so many gifs all the time...Most of them make no sense at all or are just plain absurd.



Ditto. A good one that hits the mark: Genius! The random floods though--not enough funniness-to-effort return on all the work of scrolling through them, especially when five other posters all copy and repeat them. Less is more.


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## Weeze (Sep 14, 2009)

rainyday said:


> Ditto. A good one that hits the mark: Genius! The random floods though--not enough funniness-to-effort return on all the work of scrolling through them, especially when five other posters all copy and repeat them. Less is more.



I'm thirding this.


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## Blackjack (Sep 14, 2009)

rainyday said:


> Ditto. A good one that hits the mark: Genius! The random floods though--not enough funniness-to-effort return on all the work of scrolling through them, especially when five other posters all copy and repeat them. Less is more.









Seriously people, it's the difference between making a relevant joke and flooding the conversation with _Napoleon Dynamite _quotes. One's funny, the other's annoying.


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## Spanky (Sep 14, 2009)

This thread has been concerning me. <if anyone cares> 

If I understand correctly, again, a new person posted earlier in a way that immediately solicited doubts about her being real. Having lived through the bunz88 and other posts with pics taken from the internet and posted as their own, I can understand the immediate doubts.

I guess I wonder what can be done to lessen the possible "Penny" being treated as if she is a "Bunz" ready to Heil Hilter in the next post. 

I, personally try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Then again, as long as they are not being aggressive, is it really hurting anyone? 

I also got the feeling Penny knew someone here. If that is (was) the case, could an introduction or a note from that person been added to lend credence to their new persona here at Dims? I mean if a Jes, Tina, mossy, Vickie, Sandie, TraciJo, Fasc, posts that this person is someone they know, I would take it for truth. At least my guard would be down. 

Just wondering. :bow:


WELCOME PENNY!


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## Jes (Sep 14, 2009)

Spanky said:


> I would take it for truth. At least my guard would be down.
> 
> Just wondering. :bow:
> 
> ...



dude, that info was posted, like, a week ago. Keep up.


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## vardon_grip (Sep 14, 2009)

Jes said:


> dude, that info was posted, like, a week ago. Keep up.



Maybe he is on dial-up and it took this long to bring the page up. Cut the bro some slack, jack! Doth we forget from whence we came?


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## Shosh (Sep 14, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> so clever you had to do it twice....I'm not saying I don't like pics of doggies or anything like that but I don't get why there has to be so many gifs all the time, is it because you can't say what you think without them? Most of them make no sense at all or are just plain absurd. Why not just say nothing at all then? I guess this is one thing I'll never understand.



I can understand what you are saying here Denise. I find some of those gifs to be juvenile in the extreme. I also do not feel you have bullied anybody. You have just stated your opinion.

As I said earlier, pictures of dogs do not offend me, it is the gifs some use to be nasty and crude that I find unsavoury.


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## Jes (Sep 14, 2009)

vardon_grip said:


> Maybe he is on dial-up



Maybe you should just hush up. Hmmn? How about that? PS: I'm gonna need that photo by 6 pm Eastern. chop chop.


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## Shosh (Sep 14, 2009)

Spanky said:


> This thread has been concerning me. <if anyone cares>
> 
> If I understand correctly, again, a new person posted earlier in a way that immediately solicited doubts about her being real. Having lived through the bunz88 and other posts with pics taken from the internet and posted as their own, I can understand the immediate doubts.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your thoughts Spanky.

I know who Penny is a friend of, but I shall leave it up to that person to talk about the friendship etc if they wish to.


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## Spanky (Sep 14, 2009)

Jes said:


> dude, that info was posted, like, a week ago. Keep up.



:kiss2:


..........


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## msbard90 (Sep 14, 2009)

I have read in an earlier post of Penny's that she is actually a friend of someone on this site. If you actually read the threads she started, you will find out who it is.


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## Weeze (Sep 14, 2009)

Why are we being so secretive? It's Steely. STEELY posted in Penny's defense. I don't see the big deal? 

Oh, and I agree that that .gif thing is really overdone.


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## msbard90 (Sep 14, 2009)

I don't think its being secretive, I think it has a lot more to do with the fact that if you want to call some one out, do the research. Don't demand that someone stand up to this poor lady's defense. I'm sure this is the last thing that Penny wanted to have happened by joining the site. I think its ridiculous to demand that the person who referred Penny speak up. If you wanna know so bad, then read up on Penny. Some people need to be more considerate. 

P.S. Penny.... I'm sorry that all this drama is going on so unnecessarily. Its awful.  Best wishes


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## msbard90 (Sep 14, 2009)

Just imagine if we demanded the validity of everyone here. I'm sure there are a lot of people here who are perfectly normal, but there are also people here who are a completely different "persona". Maybe that person who is using a persona is struggling with weight issues, or is an FA with issues that he/she is too embarassed for one reason or another to share.. STOP THE WITCH HUNT. Who cares?


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## stan_der_man (Sep 15, 2009)

Carrie said:


> Speaking on behalf of the torch-wielding villagers
> ...



Tell me when the villagers begin gathering feathers... I'll start heating up the tar! 


That's always the funnest part!


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## Scorsese86 (Sep 20, 2009)

I know Penny is real. We have a mutual friend. I don't know you, Penny, but I've heard about you.


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## tonynyc (Sep 20, 2009)

fa_man_stan said:


> Tell me when the villagers begin gathering feathers... I'll start heating up the tar!
> 
> 
> That's always the funnest part!



*Now Stan : in the Avatar are you wearing your "Tar and Featherin" Hat for this special occassion  *


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## stan_der_man (Sep 20, 2009)

tonynyc said:


> *Now Stan : in the Avatar are you wearing your "Tar and Featherin" Hat for this special occassion  *
> 
> 
> http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2009/2/19/128795244562281706.jpg



Yup... that's the my ol' T-featherin' cap! Keeps me from burnin' my hair off. At my age I try to hang on to as much of my hair as I can... 




Scorsese86 said:


> ...



Excellent! We have a volunteer.... Hold still Scorsese86, we need to see if the tar is hot enough for the feathers to stick...


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## tonynyc (Sep 20, 2009)

fa_man_stan said:


> Yup... that's the my ol' T-featherin' cap! Keeps me from burnin' my hair off. At my age I try to hang on to as much of my hair as I can...



_Stan: I think you have more problems with the TMZ crew following you around  and autograph seekers :happy:_


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## stan_der_man (Sep 20, 2009)

tonynyc said:


> _Stan: I think you have more problems with the TMZ crew following you around  and autograph seekers :happy:_



I'm cool with that, as long as they don't mind the potential for getting tar splattered on them...


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## dragorat (Sep 21, 2009)

*When it comes to real or fake I usually let a picture do the talking.If someone comes on here without a pic I don't judge.However if they come on using a pic of someone I know online either personally or from a professional viewing then I will call them out.Penny don't let things get to you.As has been said there are a lot of good folks here.You can find out all kinds of things.So be happy & enjoy.:bow: *


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## Russell Williams (Sep 22, 2009)

Why so many attacks? Will mossy now start to complain about people who keep repeating that they find fat women attractive? After all their are disadvantages to being fat in American society. Attacking one person's advice is unlikely to help the person to whom the advice is given. 

More reasonable advice might be to tell the person who ate the pie and was diabetic to follow her doctors advice about taking extra insulin after a large meal and then and to check her sugar about 1 hour later and follow her doctor's advice about what to do when she has whatever suger level she happens to test at.

It is not the pictures of cakes that can raise suger levels, it is comsumption of the cakes. Will you tell grocery stores not to let diabetics buy cakes or to ban diabetice from stores and only let their non-diabetic friends shop for them?

Once again. Why the violent verbal attack? In real life do you usually tell parents who smoke and have children that are near them that they are doing a terrible thing. 

If you do often confront parents who smoke in front of children do you plan to post pictures of your black eyes?





mossystate said:


> Sue, I realize you never want to miss an opportunity to repeat yourself about how chocolate turns you into a human vibrator, but, Penny is talking about real PAIN.
> 
> No, it doesn't do any good to have, on a loop, a tape in ones head that tells them to hate themselves...but...she has type 2 diabetes, and even if you did not know this, this post of hers here says that she wants to get to a healthier frame of mind.
> 
> ...


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## fatgirlflyin (Sep 22, 2009)

Russell Williams said:


> More reasonable advice might be to tell the person who ate the pie and was diabetic to follow her doctors advice about taking extra insulin after a large meal and then and to check her sugar about 1 hour later and follow her doctor's advice about what to do when she has whatever suger level she happens to test at.



That's not reasonable advice, it wasn't a large meal, it was a whole pie. There's a big difference, and I'd imagine that any doctor would say so as well. 

You don't go into an AA meeting flashing pictures of a Jack Daniels bottle, or drug addict meeting (what are they called? it escapes me) flashing pictures of a junkie shooting up. That cake picture being posted here was pretty much the equivalent of that..


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## Russell Williams (Sep 22, 2009)

On the topic of who is what and who exists and who does not. Consider the posibility that Russell Williams does not exist and therefore when you disagree with a post that he makes, since there is no proof that he actually exists it would be pointless to attack a non-existant person for making a post.

tho it is true that the person or persons who claim to be Russell Williams have been rather consistant for a long period of time.

There will be some who say that they have actually met Russell Williams, can you be sure that they are telling the truth? It is my understanding that on the internet, unless you have far above average skills it is usually impossible to prove that someone exists and are telling the truth about things that happen to them.

So why spend time demanding proof of the unprovable or attacking things that people sayt when the people you are attacking may or may not be who and what they say they are?

My suggestion to these who feel the need to attack and critize a lot-read the posts and, at least far more often, keep you evaluations of the content and senders to yourselves.





AnnMarie said:


> I'm sorry, there's a lot of dancing around the issue - which is many, many people strongly believe that Sue is not who she says. The many references to this post seeming to be a work of "weight gain fiction" indicate exactly what many believe is going on.
> 
> I personally have no opinion other than the poster has been consistent for a very long period of time (much longer than many have even been here) and without something to prove otherwise, I'll keep my torch unlit.
> 
> ...


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## Russell Williams (Sep 22, 2009)

You have explained what you consider to be bad advice, now kindly tell us what would be good advice?


And your advice is what? "Do not eat that much again." To me that sounds a bit like telling a fat person who has trouble getting around that they thing to do is lose weight. Nice advice but, in most cases, aint goina happen. 



At a convention if you see a fat woman on a scooter and she says that scooter is old it is unreliable do you tell her about places to get new scooters at low prices or do you tell her that if she got down to about 150 she might not need a scooter and therefor would save all the money she might have to spend on a scooter? Nice advice but, in most cases, aint goina happen.







fatgirlflyin said:


> That's not reasonable advice, it wasn't a large meal, it was a whole pie. There's a big difference, and I'd imagine that any doctor would say so as well.
> 
> You don't go into an AA meeting flashing pictures of a Jack Daniels bottle, or drug addict meeting (what are they called? it escapes me) flashing pictures of a junkie shooting up. That cake picture being posted here was pretty much the equivalent of that..



What about an all you can eat banquet at a fat peoples' convention or gathering? Most doctors would probably tell the fat people there that they should lose weight. So is your advice that anyone throwing a fat peoples gathering should only serve low calorie foods with close attention to portion control? I suppose that you could give it a test and plan a fat peoples' gathering where all the events and meals are designed to help fat people lose weight (like most of their doctors want them to). You might get hundreds and hundreds of people from this board to come to your healthy convention.

Or it is possible that, for many people on this board, you could not get them to come even if you paid them to come.

Yours truly, 

Some person or persons who uses the name Russell Williams (See a previous post on who is real and who is not real around here)


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 22, 2009)

Russell Williams said:


> More reasonable advice might be to tell the person who ate the pie and was diabetic to follow her doctors advice about taking extra insulin after a large meal and then and to check her sugar about 1 hour later and follow her doctor's advice about what to do when she has whatever suger level she happens to test at.



This makes me steaming mad.

This is NOT good advise, Russell Williams. This is, in fact, HORRIFIC and IRRESPONSIBLE advise. More to the point though, advise wasn't really called for anyway. The OP just wanted some understanding and empathy for being human, and for being in pain. She knows that consuming an entire pie isn't good for her diabetes management. Advising a diabetic to manage his/her illness with insulin, rather than by making the strict dietary changes advised by his/her nutritionist and physician is ... DAMN IT ... it verges on, and depending on the context of the relationship veers directly into ABUSE. I sincerely hope that you aren't advising the people in your life to eat around their illness and to rely on insulin to keep their blood sugar in line. Please tell me that you are not. Please. I mean it. I watched my father manage his diabetes in just this way, and although he still managed to live to be 83, his decline was severe and he suffered terribly before he died and we had to watch him go through it. God. !!





> If you do often confront parents who smoke in front of children do you plan to post pictures of your black eyes?



If a parent who smokes in front of his/her child asks for my advise, I'll give it to them. If that parent asks for my empathy and support as he/she is struggling to give up the habit, I'll offer that too -- unless that person is, in fact, smoking in front of his/her child. Then I'd tailor the advise to include a request that they stop exposing the child to secondhand smoke, and I'd include literature about what it does to children (more frequent respiratory illnesses, ear infections, lowered immunity to colds/flu/other childhood illnesses, etc). Point is, though -- I wouldn't offer the advise unless it was solicited. And I damn sure wouldn't offer IRRESPONSIBLE advise.


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## fatgirlflyin (Sep 22, 2009)

I don't know why I bothered, since you can't be bothered to actually read what someone else has written. You've got your script held tightly in hand and I'd wager that no matter who posts in response to you, no matter what they post you know what you're gonna say before they even say it.

Not EVERYTHING is fat politics, I don't know why you are unable to grasp that concept. 

So let Sue keep on posting pictures of her cakes, and you keep on being a chair activist. At least the two of you will have comfortable chairs to sit in.

By the way, I hope that Lousie is feeling better now...



Russell Williams said:


> You have explained what you consider to be bad advice, now kindly tell us what would be good advice?
> 
> 
> And your advice is what? "Do not eat that much again." To me that sounds a bit like telling a fat person who has trouble getting around that they thing to do is lose weight. Nice advice but, in most cases, aint goina happen.
> ...


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 22, 2009)

Steaming all over again!!

No, Russell. We shouldn't offer advise to people who don't solicit it from us. We all have the right to live our lives however we wish to, up to and including making choices that others may not agree with.

However, there is a difference between CO-DEPENDENCE and/or ENCOURAGING vs a "live and let live" approach. 





Russell Williams said:


> You have explained what you consider to be bad advice, now kindly tell us what would be good advice?
> 
> 
> And your advice is what? "Do not eat that much again." To me that sounds a bit like telling a fat person who has trouble getting around that they thing to do is lose weight. Nice advice but, in most cases, aint goina happen.
> ...


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## HereticFA (Sep 22, 2009)

fatgirlflyin said:


> That's not reasonable advice, it wasn't a large meal, it was a whole pie. There's a big difference, and I'd imagine that any doctor would say so as well.


There's a big _emotional_ difference. Otherwise there isn't that much of a difference from a big Thanksgiving dinner with seconds. The method on managing the increase in BG levels is the same. 



fatgirlflyin said:


> You don't go into an AA meeting flashing pictures of a Jack Daniels bottle, or drug addict meeting (what are they called? it escapes me) flashing pictures of a junkie shooting up. That cake picture being posted here was pretty much the equivalent of that..


So you're saying the boards at Dimensions should be have an environment like Overeaters Anonymous? You're saying a fat acceptance site should help her in her self flagellation over eating a whole pie? I think the responses she received are more appropriate. While they didn't beat her up as you (and maybe she) seemed to expect, it did try to emotionally decriminalize the behavior. That has been shown to be an important element in changing behavior. It's OK to slip up occasionally. Just try to go longer between mistakes next time.

(And yes, I do know just how terrible diabetes is. I think it's complications are actually grossly _under_stated.)


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## fatgirlflyin (Sep 22, 2009)

HereticFA said:


> There's a big _emotional_ difference. Otherwise there isn't that much of a difference from a big Thanksgiving dinner with seconds. The method on managing the increase in BG levels is the same.
> 
> 
> So you're saying the boards at Dimensions should be have an environment like Overeaters Anonymous? You're saying a fat acceptance site should help her in her self flagellation over eating a whole pie? I think the responses she received are more appropriate. While they didn't beat her up as you (and maybe she) seemed to expect, it did try to emotionally decriminalize the behavior. That has been shown to be an important element in changing behavior. It's OK to slip up occasionally. Just try to go longer between mistakes next time.
> ...



I wasn't suggesting anyone should beat her up. What I AM saying is that you shouldn't tell a diabetic who feels terrible about eating a whole pie, that she shouldn't worry about it and then go into a story about how you gorge yourself on chocolate. 

Maybe its me but its not that hard a concept to understand....


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 22, 2009)

fatgirlflyin said:


> Maybe its me but its not that hard a concept to understand....



No, it's not a hard concept to understand.

I haven't wanted to get further involved in the Sue element to this thread, since I do think that a bit of a torch-carrying mob has formed. 

But yes, what you've said is dead-on correct in suggesting that the initial reactions to Sue's post (which I view as clueless, not sinister) was understandable. It's not about beating up on the OP. It's about offering encouragement and support, and stories about enjoying and indulging oneself in the face of someone else's pain is hardly appropriate.


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## HereticFA (Sep 22, 2009)

fatgirlflyin said:


> I wasn't suggesting anyone should beat her up. What I AM saying is that you shouldn't tell a diabetic who feels terrible about eating a whole pie, that she shouldn't worry about it and then go into a story about how you gorge yourself on chocolate.
> 
> Maybe its me but its not that hard a concept to understand....


Sue was trying to emotionally decriminalize Penny's behavior by showing Penny is not alone in eating an entire dessert. Sue was not trying to ridicule or minimize Penny's feelings on the issue. 

I do see a lot of other Dims posters who still have such deep emotional hatred of fat that they seem to think everyone should wade into the fate hatred swamp to empathize with Penny. It's a trap that many of us recognize, even if you don't. We'd rather stand on the safety of the shore and toss her a lifeline. Sorry you didn't think the branch we were using was appropriate and believed we should be using a rope instead.


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 22, 2009)

HereticFA said:


> I do see a lot of other Dims posters who still have such deep emotional hatred of fat that they seem to think everyone should wade into the fate hatred swamp to empathize with Penny. It's a trap that many of us recognize, even if you don't. We'd rather stand on the safety of the shore and toss her a lifeline. Sorry you didn't think the branch we were using was appropriate and believed we should be using a rope instead.



Heretic, I can't speak for anyone else, but I have no such emotional hatred of fat. What I do intensely dislike, though, is pretending that appropriate concern about someone else's emotional pain is the same thing as hating on teh fat so as not to disrupt any FA fantasies that life in fat land is always a grand, pleasantly alluring stroll in the park. Nobody has suggested that Penny should beat herself up for eating a pie. I actually agree with part of what you're saying, which is that decriminalizing such behavior is far more appropriate than chastising her (which I'm sure she's done plenty of to herself). But I doubt very much that this is what Sue was trying to do, and even if she was, it was the wrong approach. 

You don't seem to understand that others who have responded to Penny were ALSO trying to throw her a branch. It's OK to be human and to react to emotional pain in ways that bring us comfort. That's allowed. We understand the pain that Penny is living with -- at least, those of us who live in or have lived in very fat bodies understand it. But it is still ultimately an untenable solution. A better alternative would be to offer suggestions on how to respond DIFFERENTLY to these kind of situations so that Penny doesn't continue to resort to eating a pie and then hating herself for it. It's not OK to tell her that she should continue indulging herself with said pie, and to shoot herself up with insulin to correct the subsequent imbalance (ala Russell Williams). And it's not OK to respond with a story that oozes with sexual charge about how luuuuuuuuucious and innnnnndulgent and orgasmically woooooonderful it feels to eat a great big heavenly chunk of sugary cake, complete with photos of said cake (ala TFS). And it's most definitely not OK to suggest that those of us who feel that these are inappropriate responses are just fat hating fools (ala HereticFA).


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## Carrie (Sep 22, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Heretic, I can't speak for anyone else, but I have no such emotional hatred of fat. What I do intensely dislike, though, is pretending that appropriate concern about someone else's emotional pain is the same thing as hating on teh fat so as not to disrupt any FA fantasies that life in fat land is always a grand, pleasantly alluring stroll in the park. Nobody has suggested that Penny should beat herself up for eating a pie. I actually agree with part of what you're saying, which is that decriminalizing such behavior is far more appropriate than chastising her (which I'm sure she's done plenty of to herself). But I doubt very much that this is what Sue was trying to do, and even if she was, it was the wrong approach.
> 
> You don't seem to understand that others who have responded to Penny were ALSO trying to throw her a branch. It's OK to be human and to react to emotional pain in ways that bring us comfort. That's allowed. We understand the pain that Penny is living with -- at least, those of us who live in or have lived in very fat bodies understand it. But it is still ultimately an untenable solution. A better alternative would be to offer suggestions on how to respond DIFFERENTLY to these kind of situations so that Penny doesn't continue to resort to eating a pie and then hating herself for it. It's not OK to tell her that she should continue indulging herself with said pie, and to shoot herself up with insulin to correct the subsequent imbalance (ala Russell Williams). And it's not OK to respond with a story that oozes with sexual charge about how luuuuuuuuucious and innnnnndulgent and orgasmically woooooonderful it feels to eat a great big heavenly chunk of sugary cake, complete with photos of said cake (ala TFS). And it's most definitely not OK to suggest that those of us who feel that these are inappropriate responses are just fat hating fools (ala HereticFA).


Thank you. 

Heretic, I've no idea if you're fat, I'm guessing not. There can be a great deal of ambivalence in being fat, even for the most well-adjusted fat person. It's not all rainbows and unicorns, neither is it all difficult and unhappy. As with most things in life, there exists a lot of gray area. It irks me to no end when a FA perceives any kind of comment residing in the dark area, or even the gray area, as fat hatred. Many posters here, present company included, possess profoundly complicated emotional issues with food, eating, binging, what have you, and we are quick to recognize that pain when it's expressed by others. THAT is what a lot of us were responding to in Penny's original post and the responses. 

I'll give you a hypothetical and topical whole cake example. If I eat an entire cake and feel overwhelmed with guilt and remorse and anxiety and hurt afterwards, it doesn't mean I hate my - or anyone's - fat. It means I feel out of control, in the grips of something bigger than me, and self-destructive. I feel like crap emotionally and physically, not because I'm fat, but because I just ate way too much for reasons that had nothing to do with physical hunger and still didn't fix whatever emotional issue drove me to binge in the first place. And if I expressed that feeling to someone afterwards and was met with a response like some early in this thread that caused objections, it would make me feel even worse about myself and my actions. Do you see the difference between that and "fat hatred"? 

Russell, whatever you're on, may I have some, please. 

Stan, grrrrrr for reviving a thread that lay dormant for a week for doofy joke reasons.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Sep 22, 2009)

Carrie said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Heretic, I've no idea if you're fat, I'm guessing not. There can be a great deal of ambivalence in being fat, even for the most well-adjusted fat person. It's not all rainbows and unicorns, neither is it all difficult and unhappy. As with most things in life, there exists a lot of gray area. It irks me to no end when a FA perceives any kind of comment residing in the dark area, or even the gray area, as fat hatred. Many posters here, present company included, possess profoundly complicated emotional issues with food, eating, binging, what have you, and we are quick to recognize that pain when it's expressed by others. THAT is what a lot of us were responding to in Penny's original post and the responses.
> 
> I'll give you a hypothetical and topical whole cake example. If I eat an entire cake and feel overwhelmed with guilt and remorse and anxiety and hurt afterwards, it doesn't mean I hate my - or anyone's - fat. It means I feel out of control, in the grips of something bigger than me, and self-destructive. I feel like crap emotionally and physically, not because I'm fat, but because I just ate way too much for reasons that had nothing to do with physical hunger and still didn't fix whatever emotional issue drove me to binge in the first place. And if I expressed that feeling to someone afterwards and was met with a response like some early in this thread that caused objections, it would make me feel even worse about myself and my actions. Do you see the difference between that and "fat hatred"?



I think your logic and reasoning just detonated in my face.


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## Miss Vickie (Sep 22, 2009)

Russell, what the hell? Are you a doctor, or another medical professional who should be giving such _incredibly dangerous_ advice to a diabetic? No? Didn't think so. You're the one, after all, who waxed rhapsodic on the old Dimensions site about bringing vast amounts of McDonalds home to your wife who was disabled by her weight and diabetes. So you'll forgive me if I say you have no place in giving anything resembling medical advice. 

The fact is that any health care provider will tell you that what you recommend is playing Russian roulette to take in that much sugar when you're a diabetic, particularly a poorly controlled diabetic who has had problems related to her diabetes. What if her sugar spikes to 500 in that first hour? What then? What if she goes into DKA before she is able to check her sugar and take insulin? What if the sugar spike so messes with her mind that she can't give herself the correct amount of insulin, and over -- or under -- doses herself? The human body -- even the same human body -- doesn't respond the same way every time to sugar so you have no way to reliably predict how much insulin she should take before, and what her glucose would be in an hour. She might be in no condition to check her sugar. Then what? Is that pie really worth losing her kidneys, her limbs, her eyesight, her_ life_?

Telling a diabetic that it's okay to manage their disease like that is like telling an alcoholic it's okay to drink a fifth of Jack and then go to an AA meeting. Or someone struggling with asthma that it's okay to smoke a pack of cigarettes and then use their inhaler. 

But your response is exactly as I expected. 

None of us who have responded hate fat or fat people, but we are understandably concerned about a diabetic who expresses her inability to control her eating. Many of us have been there, in fact, and struggled in the same ways that she has struggled. No, it's not about making her feel bad about making a dangerous choice, but rather helping her find out why she made such a choice, why she feels her eating is out of control, and how can she get help so that she can make healthier choices and feel better about her eating. True self love, in my book, is giving our bodies what they need to thrive. Not feeding ourselves what ends up being poison that can harm our quality of life and ultimately take years off our lives.

HereticFA, I appreciate what you said about it being an emotional difference. You're right. At Thanksgiving, it's sanctioned in our culture to overeat, but the rest of the time we're "bad people" for overeating. And yes, controlling glucose is done in the same way, regardless of the context. However, the difference between a Thanksgiving meal and a pie are different in one crucial way: the intake of protein and fat along with the sugar. A pie, while it has some fat, is mostly sugar but a Thanksgiving meal is full of protein, fat, and many other nutrients. The protein in particular is important because it kind of "buffers" the blood sugar, usually, and slows down some of the rapid spikes and valleys that our bodies experience when we eat raw sugar. So physically, it's a little different, and it's that difference -- plus her emotional mindset while eating it -- that concerns me.

You bring up some interesting points and I appreciate them. I don't hate fat, or food, at all. But it doesn't feel right to me to enable someone by encouraging them to make decisions about their body that are dangerous. And no, of course I wouldn't say something to someone out of the blue; however if I'm asked (as Penny brought up her situation here and asked for help) I'll chime in, in as positive and supportive and honest a way as I can.


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## imfree (Sep 22, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> This makes me steaming mad.
> 
> This is NOT good advise, ...snipped.... Advising a diabetic to manage his/her illness with insulin, rather than by making the strict dietary changes advised by his/her nutritionist and physician is ... DAMN IT ... it verges on, and depending on the context of the relationship veers directly into ABUSE. I sincerely hope that you aren't advising the people in your life to eat around their illness and to rely on insulin to keep their blood sugar in line. ......snipped.....



That is a great post, TracyJo. I'm a type II diabetic who
uses insulin on a sliding scale. I would never even
consider eating such a massive amount of sugar, such
as in a whole pie, but I do enjoy rice, pasta, and
occasional pizza. I use a good deal more insulin than
someone who carefully follows diabetic dietary guidelines.
Part of that excess could be attributed to recurring 
cellulitis infection, but honestly, I consume more carbs
and calories than any doctor would approve of. I would
really like to see good data on various food/insulin use
levels. Other than increased colon cancer risk and water
retention, I've seen no information about consequences
of higher insulin use. Once again, I do not advocate
increased insulin to cover high consumption of excessive 
sugar.


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## fatgirlflyin (Sep 22, 2009)

Ok. Well you know what, next time I'm with a friend, one who's a recovering alchoholic and they start going on about being ashamed that they have fallen off the wagon, I will make sure to whip out my bottle of bourbon and pour myself a nice fat shot while telling them to not feel bad about falling off the wagon. 

Its all about context. If you're diabetic should you be eating a whole pie? No. If you're an alcoholic should you be drinking? No. If you're an addict should you smoke that crack? No. And people who tell you not to feel bad about doing any of those things while showing you pictures of them doing it or telling stories about their activities involving those items are NOT looking out for the best interests of the person in pain.





HereticFA said:


> Sue was trying to emotionally decriminalize Penny's behavior by showing Penny is not alone in eating an entire dessert. Sue was not trying to ridicule or minimize Penny's feelings on the issue.
> 
> I do see a lot of other Dims posters who still have such deep emotional hatred of fat that they seem to think everyone should wade into the fate hatred swamp to empathize with Penny. It's a trap that many of us recognize, even if you don't. We'd rather stand on the safety of the shore and toss her a lifeline. Sorry you didn't think the branch we were using was appropriate and believed we should be using a rope instead.


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## mossystate (Sep 22, 2009)

HereticFA said:


> Sue was trying to emotionally decriminalize Penny's behavior by showing Penny is not alone in eating an entire dessert. Sue was not trying to ridicule or minimize Penny's feelings on the issue.
> 
> I do see a lot of other Dims posters who still have such deep emotional hatred of fat that they seem to think everyone should wade into the fate hatred swamp to empathize with Penny. It's a trap that many of us recognize, even if you don't. We'd rather stand on the safety of the shore and toss her a lifeline. Sorry you didn't think the branch we were using was appropriate and believed we should be using a rope instead.



Wowza.

Sue was only thinking about Sue...you are using the absolute wrong person to test out your feelings on " emotional decriminalization ". Perhaps it had nothing to do with Sue's routine, and more that you just wanted to take a swing at other people. That doesn't really bode well for your wanting to do less beating up on people who struggle. 

Who was wading into a fat hatred swamp? You are a bit melodramatic...and you obviously did not take off your ' uhoh, somebody did not support the eating of a bakery, they must be fat haters '...blinders . If you want to get someone to the safe shore, you don't think back on all the times you had orgasms over whatever it is the person is struggling with.
----
" Oh...wow...you cut yourself with a razor?....mmmmmmmmm...I remember the time when I had blood GUSHING from a wound I made on my leg. My whole bod was buzzing with the high of the release ". 

Getting somone safely to the shore is to tell them that they are human, and that they can _get to the point _where they won't feel a need to hurt themselves. You do not wave a razor, and tell them you will show them how to cut in a way that will not hit a major vein. WTF.

Selfish, is what that is...and I don't care if anybody thinks that a torch is lit, and I don't care who does the repeated disregard for the person in front of them...no matter what I personally think of them.


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## Miss Vickie (Sep 22, 2009)

It seems like in order to not be seen as fat hating, we're expected to just go along with and support whatever dangerous food choices people make. I'm sorry, but I refuse to do that. 

To me this is personal. My oldest brother is losing his vision, his mobility, has long lost his ability work, and nearly killed himself last year in a car accident -- all due to his diabetes. He's only 60 years old and can't work, is mostly stuck at home, has trouble reading, writing, cooking and even caring for himself. He fell a few weeks back because he can't feel his feet, and now has two nasty diabetic ulcers on his feet that could end up resulting in amputation. And this is the brother who has tried very hard to take care of himself, who checks his sugar regularly, eats a lot of fresh foods, no sugar. He, like my father (who died of heart disease and diabetes when I was 12) was handed a poor set of genetics. He's tried, but even with the best medical care and his best intentions he probably won't live to see his grandchildren enter school.

My other brother died last year of complications from a diabetic ulcer on his leg that became infected. He became septic, ended up in a coma, tubes in his mouth, his nose, his penis and his rectum. He had machines breathing for him, filtering his blood, maintaining his heart rate. He died last year. He was 49. Forty nine, folks. FORTY NINE. I watched him make bad decisions, from WLS when he had no intention of following the dietary guidelines, to eating unbelievable amounts of sugar, to not getting regular medical care. He paid the ultimate price -- he lost his life.

Diabetes is serious business. It's more important than not hurting people's feelings. It's more important than fat politics. People DIE from it. Every damn day. Every. Damn. Day.

So do I get pissed when I see someone throwing their health away? Yes, I do. But what pisses me off even more than that are people who are so blase, so complacent about other people's health that they say, "It's okay. Do whatever you want." Will they be there to hold that person's hand when they're experiencing phantom pain from the limb long gone, to read and answer their mail, dial their phone, make phone calls for them? Will they be there to bury them? Unlikely.

So yes, this is personal. It's not about my personal feelings about fat. It's about the senseless and unnecessary loss of health and life, and for what? A momentary enjoyment of food? A "sugar buzz"?? Is it really worth it? Truly?


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## katorade (Sep 22, 2009)

And once again, this thread sums up why I think this board needs to split like a troubled, quaking amoeba. Size acceptance and fat appreciation do not belong on the same party barge. Hooray for unpopular ideas!


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## HereticFA (Sep 22, 2009)

Carrie said:


> Thank you.
> 
> Heretic, I've no idea if you're fat, I'm guessing not. There can be a great deal of ambivalence in being fat, even for the most well-adjusted fat person. It's not all rainbows and unicorns, neither is it all difficult and unhappy. As with most things in life, there exists a lot of gray area. It irks me to no end when a FA perceives any kind of comment residing in the dark area, or even the gray area, as fat hatred. Many posters here, present company included, possess profoundly complicated emotional issues with food, eating, binging, what have you, and we are quick to recognize that pain when it's expressed by others. THAT is what a lot of us were responding to in Penny's original post and the responses.


At my current BMI of 31.2, I qualify as obese. (My cardiologist certainly wants me to lose weight.) When I was an adolescent, my BMI of 42 to 45 put me into the morbidly obese category. It took me years to overcome a lot of the food issues from adolescence, one issue at a time. It also made me realize food issues can be separated from your emotions, if you're willing to take the first step and let them go. Failing to do so is like trying to swim with a family heirloom anvil. You're doomed to hit bottom. Self hatred of your body is that anvil.



Carrie said:


> I'll give you a hypothetical and topical whole cake example. If I eat an entire cake and feel overwhelmed with guilt and remorse and anxiety and hurt afterwards, it doesn't mean I hate my - or anyone's - fat. It means I feel out of control, in the grips of something bigger than me, and self-destructive. I feel like crap emotionally and physically, not because I'm fat, but because I just ate way too much for reasons that had nothing to do with physical hunger and still didn't fix whatever emotional issue drove me to binge in the first place. And if I expressed that feeling to someone afterwards and was met with a response like some early in this thread that caused objections, it would make me feel even worse about myself and my actions. Do you see the difference between that and "fat hatred"?



And all of those can be broken down into the component issues and dealt with individually. I did it with myself and I've done the same thing with my wife. My discussions with others who used to be fat found many of them did the same thing-they addressed their issues after breaking them down into the smallest element they could. Start with realizing it's not about control, its about influence. Not only does it destigmatize the situation, it does more accurately describe what's going on. Add in the realization that the _influence_ of the food (frequently engineered to be irresistible) is a significant reason for your binge and maybe you can break the circle of binging and subsequent self hatred you've become used to over the years. Sometimes the best way to win is to not play the game.

While I don't know you well enough to know how you really feel about being fat, the twenty or so binge eaters I know usually hated their weight equally as much as they hated their binging. You say they are separate (and they may be with you) but that's a very infrequent occurrence from my observations. At best it's a chicken and egg situation.


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## Jes (Sep 22, 2009)

You make a very good point. It's always been a locus of tension for me, too. This site started as 1 thing and I think that it has, to a great extent, become something else. Or at least includes a lot of something else. When the object of the fantasy speaks, it can be very polarizing. I'm not going to villify anyone on either side of this debate but it's definitely a very real problem in my mind.


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## HereticFA (Sep 22, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> HereticFA, I appreciate what you said about it being an emotional difference. You're right. At Thanksgiving, it's sanctioned in our culture to overeat, but the rest of the time we're "bad people" for overeating. And yes, controlling glucose is done in the same way, regardless of the context. However, the difference between a Thanksgiving meal and a pie are different in one crucial way: the intake of protein and fat along with the sugar. A pie, while it has some fat, is mostly sugar but a Thanksgiving meal is full of protein, fat, and many other nutrients. The protein in particular is important because it kind of "buffers" the blood sugar, usually, and slows down some of the rapid spikes and valleys that our bodies experience when we eat raw sugar. So physically, it's a little different, and it's that difference -- plus her emotional mindset while eating it -- that concerns me.
> 
> You bring up some interesting points and I appreciate them. I don't hate fat, or food, at all. But it doesn't feel right to me to enable someone by encouraging them to make decisions about their body that are dangerous. And no, of course I wouldn't say something to someone out of the blue; however if I'm asked (as Penny brought up her situation here and asked for help) I'll chime in, in as positive and supportive and honest a way as I can.


Unfortunately the starch heavy composition of most year end holiday dinners offers little in the way of protein or fiber buffering. That was the basis for my comment.

I'm concerned about most of the comments regarding controlling dietary intake for diabetics as if it were a sprint when it's actually a marathon. Very, very few people can immediately make the change to a proper diabetic diet. It takes months for most and years (if ever) for some. That's why I was trying to focus on downplaying the errant behavior of the binge. That opens the door to discussing what leads up to it and how to avoid the next binge by recognizing the steps that precede the binge. Even if you can't avoid it, at least keep increasing the interval between them.


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## Carrie (Sep 22, 2009)

HereticFA said:


> <snip>
> 
> While I don't know you well enough to know how you really feel about being fat, the twenty or so binge eaters I know usually hated their weight equally as much as they hated their binging. You say they are separate (and they may be with you) but that's a very infrequent occurrence from my observations. At best it's a chicken and egg situation.



Thank you, but I'm not looking for tips on treating binge eating disorders. I am, as previously stated, working on my own emotional issues with food and eating, but fortunately (for me), they are not severe enough to include binging. The entire cake example was a hypothetical example, as I explained. 

And you're right, you don't know me, not even a little bit, if you think fat hatred or self hatred is part of my current vocabulary. Neither have been for quite a few years, thankfully.


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## HereticFA (Sep 23, 2009)

katorade said:


> And once again, this thread sums up why I think this board needs to split like a troubled, quaking amoeba. Size acceptance and fat appreciation do not belong on the same party barge. Hooray for unpopular ideas!





Jes said:


> You make a very good point. It's always been a locus of tension for me, too. This site started as 1 thing and I think that it has, to a great extent, become something else. Or at least includes a lot of something else. When the object of the fantasy speaks, it can be very polarizing. I'm not going to villify anyone on either side of this debate but it's definitely a very real problem in my mind.



Umm, _Dimensions_ started life as the newsletter of the Fat Admirer Special Interest Group (FA SIG) of NAAFA. Later, the website was started as an adjunct to the magazine. The combined core themes have always been Fat Admirers and Fat Acceptance. Everything else that has been added since those two cornerstone themes is the newcomer.

Why is it that so many seem to blame philosophical disagreements on the evil FA fantasies? While I came to the NAAFA culture 28 years ago as an FA, I stayed as a fat person. Yes, there are some FA's oblivious to their partner's needs and health issues. However not all live down to that stereotype.

I do see a lot of people paying lip service to "size acceptance" but have an underlying thread of wanting to be thinner (or never getting fat again) running throughout their posts. Dimensions is really looking more like an OA meeting these days and far less like a fat acceptance site.


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## Jes (Sep 23, 2009)

HereticFA said:


> Umm, _Dimensions_ started life as the newsletter of the Fat Admirer Special Interest Group (FA SIG) of NAAFA. Later, the website was started as an adjunct to the magazine. The combined core themes have always been Fat Admirers and Fat Acceptance. Everything else that has been added since those two cornerstone themes is the newcomer.
> 
> .


I've never disagreed with this.


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## Tina (Sep 23, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> No, it's not a hard concept to understand.
> 
> I haven't wanted to get further involved in the Sue element to this thread, since I do think that a bit of a torch-carrying mob has formed.
> 
> But yes, what you've said is dead-on correct in suggesting that the initial reactions to Sue's post (which I view as clueless, not sinister) was understandable. It's not about beating up on the OP. It's about offering encouragement and support, and stories about enjoying and indulging oneself in the face of someone else's pain is hardly appropriate.


This, exactly.


Carrie said:


> Heretic, I've no idea if you're fat, I'm guessing not. There can be a great deal of ambivalence in being fat, even for the most well-adjusted fat person. It's not all rainbows and unicorns, neither is it all difficult and unhappy. As with most things in life, there exists a lot of gray area. It irks me to no end when a FA perceives any kind of comment residing in the dark area, or even the gray area, as fat hatred. Many posters here, present company included, possess profoundly complicated emotional issues with food, eating, binging, what have you, and we are quick to recognize that pain when it's expressed by others. THAT is what a lot of us were responding to in Penny's original post and the responses.
> 
> I'll give you a hypothetical and topical whole cake example. If I eat an entire cake and feel overwhelmed with guilt and remorse and anxiety and hurt afterwards, it doesn't mean I hate my - or anyone's - fat. It means I feel out of control, in the grips of something bigger than me, and self-destructive. I feel like crap emotionally and physically, not because I'm fat, but because I just ate way too much for reasons that had nothing to do with physical hunger and still didn't fix whatever emotional issue drove me to binge in the first place. And if I expressed that feeling to someone afterwards and was met with a response like some early in this thread that caused objections, it would make me feel even worse about myself and my actions. Do you see the difference between that and "fat hatred"?
> 
> ...


This, exactly, too.


tonynyc said:


> *Now Stan : in the Avatar are you wearing your "Tar and Featherin" Hat for this special occassion  *


Wow, that cat totally has a Yoda-like face.


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## HereticFA (Sep 23, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> It seems like in order to not be seen as fat hating, we're expected to just go along with and support whatever dangerous food choices people make. I'm sorry, but I refuse to do that.


Trying to get people to make abrupt dietary changes is like over correcting a cars steering. I see people try to slam themselves into their new diabetic diet (the "sprint" approach) and repeatedly fail and give up. This just seems self defeating. Slow and purposeful change seems to be much better (the "marathon" approach). That gives most people time to adapt their mind, body and emotions to their new reality. If they can successfully follow the abrupt dietary change, by all means do so. But stop berating those who can't. It comes across as "fat hating". It's not an "either/or" situation. It's a "good/better/best" situation with "good" being any continuous decrease in sugars/starches/fats and increase in physical activity. 



Miss Vickie said:


> <painfully heartbreaking accounts of diabetic issues suffered by loved ones omitted>
> 
> So yes, this is personal. It's not about my personal feelings about fat. It's about the senseless and unnecessary loss of health and life, and for what? A momentary enjoyment of food? A "sugar buzz"?? Is it really worth it? Truly?



I've seen these issues in my family as well. A cousin lost his leg, scrotum and buttocks to necrotizing fasciitis due to an ulceration from where his toes were amputated due to diabetic complications. My dad had macular degeneration, neuropathy with the ensuing muscular atrophy and incontinence (urinary and bowel), and scleroderma. My wife has had her lenses replaced due to diabetic cataracts and she has the beginnings of peripheral neuropathy. I'm reasonably familiar with horrors of diabetes and the urgent need to manage it properly. My assumption twenty years ago was that I would face diabetes so I started being reasonably careful with my diet. That still hasn't been enough to shield me from the "cousin" to diabetes, high triglycerides. My cardiologist believes it may be a contributing factor to my own CHF via microvascular disease. 

I've tried to convince my wife to treat her diabetes as positively, immediately and directly as if her clothes were on fire. That got her attention for a few weeks. Then I asked her if she was trying to commit suicide (when her BG levels were above what her BG meter could read - 500 mg/mmol). That seemed to stick with her for a few months. Most recently, it was the surgeon rescheduling her knee replacement surgery until she could demonstrate her ability to keep her BG levels under 190 that really seemed to wake her up. I've seen a no nonsense change in her this time but time will tell if this is the real deal.

I know you are extremely angry with the impact diabetes and bad food choices has made on your family. Unfortunately not enough diabetics will share your drive to change. Add in an environment of cultural and comfort foods that are the worst for BG control and it underscores the challenge everyone faces. My wife and I keep trying different "healthy" recipies, trying to find new favorites that don't seem like diet foods. We've found some hits, lots of misses and, yes, even the occasional "health hostile" meals. (And those _will_ become less frequent over the coming months.)


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## Miss Vickie (Sep 23, 2009)

HereticFA said:


> Trying to get people to make abrupt dietary changes is like over correcting a cars steering. I see people try to slam themselves into their new diabetic diet (the "sprint" approach) and repeatedly fail and give up. This just seems self defeating. Slow and purposeful change seems to be much better (the "marathon" approach).



This is great, *if *the person is in a physical condition that they can handle it. Sometimes we have to make drastic changes immediately in order to save their lives, and then while they're in the hospital (I deal with an inpatient population) we do the long term teaching and give them options when they want sweets; we teach them to try substitutes and when they do want that "forbidden food", we teach them how to go about it relatively safely, not eating it on an empty stomach, limiting the amount, being sure to have enough insulin, etc. I agree with you that it's the long haul that's important to consider and that for most people going from eating candy and soda to a diet that's only lean meats and salads won't work. While it's probably the best for them physically, it's for most people not maintainable, not in our culture, and not with the lack of support that most people get after discharge. 

All that being said, it's akin to poisoning one's self when one is a diabetic and eats a ton of sugar in one sitting. Even if you do take "enough" insulin, it's usually not going to cover the sugar as effectively as what the body does -- which is nuanced in a functioning system, not a hit of insulin all at once. It doesn't take a lot of sugar going to the wrong place to cause permanent, irreparable damage. So, as a health care provider, I'm not going to tell them "oh, it's okay, you'll be fine" because very likely, they won't. But I will tell them not to beat themselves up, but rather maybe find out why they made that choice and see if they can do it differently next time. I'm all about celebrating successes, but I'm not going to minimize the "glitches", either.



> But stop berating those who can't. It comes across as "fat hating". It's not an "either/or" situation. It's a "good/better/best" situation with "good" being any continuous decrease in sugars/starches/fats and increase in physical activity.



I'm not berating anyone, and to me their size is irrelevant. I'm not going to tell them that they're a bad person and deserve mistreatment, but I'm also not going to enable them (like family members often do -- sneaking in Skittles, McDonalds' shakes, etc., something I see all the time). Their size has nothing to do with it, and I have no idea why you say it's "fat hating". If they're diabetic -- and I care for diabetics of all sizes and shapes -- they are endangering their health, possibly beyond that which we as medical types can repair. Period. Skinny, fat, it doesn't matter. 

And yes, if course it's a continuum, good/better/best but there's also a continuum in the other direction, which is "probably not a good idea", "really not a good idea" and "a recipe for disaster". With my patients, I encourage them to make good choices because to me that's the ultimate act of self love. Eating one's self into an early grave is the antithesis of that.

I strongly believe that we are our own best healers, when we choose to be. We can also be our own worst enemies. It's naively trusting to think that you can eat a lot of glucose at one sitting and count on your diabetic medication to "fix it", something I have sadly seen in some long term diabetics who think they can just take insulin and then wonder why they have neuropathy and kidney failure. Yes, insulin does work, but it was never meant to act as a safety net for those kinds of meals. It's only meant to allow someone to survive and eat the carbs they need -- not necessarily want -- to function. It doesn't work as well as the human body's way of managing insulin when it's working properly. And even with the most appropriate dosage of insulin and careful dietary control, people can have their health devastated. My dad was an incredibly compliant diabetic and died at 52, despite making the very best choices he could when he got his diagnosis.  

As for my anger, it's not only with the choices my brother made and its impact on me, but also professionally, the effect it has on the newborns I care for. These kids end up in the NICU, with IV's, and some have organ damage. They face an uphill battle to just survive because their moms were unable to control their glucose during pregnancy. They are then at higher risk for diabetes, and the cycle goes on. Sometimes it's because of purely bad luck, but I see so many diabetics whose diets are just incredibly unsafe. It makes me so sad and worried for them.



> Unfortunately not enough diabetics will share your drive to change. Add in an environment of cultural and comfort foods that are the worst for BG control and it underscores the challenge everyone faces. My wife and I keep trying different "healthy" recipies, trying to find new favorites that don't seem like diet foods. We've found some hits, lots of misses and, yes, even the occasional "health hostile" meals. (And those _will_ become less frequent over the coming months.)



Oh, I know that many diabetics don't feel as I do. I've seen it, a lot. I admit that I was a little blase about it until nursing school, when I cared for my first pre-amputee, whose rotting feet you could smell from outside the room. There's nothing like the very physical manifestation of what you've learned theoretically to bring it all home. I wish there were some way I could convey that to my patients, _before_ they have permanent damage. Maybe we just don't explain it well enough. I don't know, but it seems like so many people don't understand how important it is... until it's too late.

I can't do anything about the people who aren't ready to make changes, other than to be sure they totally understand, to the extent they can, the permanent ramifications of the choices they are making. However, when someone comes here, feeling badly because she can't get her eating under control, I'm going to advise her to talk to her doctor, nutritionist and even a therapist to find out why and see what kind of support she can do, in order to prolong her life.

It seems like you've seen the same things I have, HereticFA, and I feel for you, with what you've gone through with your family and your wife. I appreciate your analogy about "your clothes being on fire" because the damage from diabetes is ongoing and immediate, not theoretical and "someday". I really hope she comes to a place where she can live with her diabetes peacefully and do what she needs to do to manage it while still enjoying life. It's not easy with our culture, to be sure. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.


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## katorade (Sep 23, 2009)

HereticFA said:


> Umm, _Dimensions_ started life as the newsletter of the Fat Admirer Special Interest Group (FA SIG) of NAAFA. Later, the website was started as an adjunct to the magazine. The combined core themes have always been Fat Admirers and Fat Acceptance. Everything else that has been added since those two cornerstone themes is the newcomer.
> 
> Why is it that so many seem to blame philosophical disagreements on the evil FA fantasies? While I came to the NAAFA culture 28 years ago as an FA, I stayed as a fat person. Yes, there are some FA's oblivious to their partner's needs and health issues. However not all live down to that stereotype.
> 
> I do see a lot of people paying lip service to "size acceptance" but have an underlying thread of wanting to be thinner (or never getting fat again) running throughout their posts. Dimensions is really looking more like an OA meeting these days and far less like a fat acceptance site.




Way to put words in my mouth. I never said Dimensions couldn't just be Dimensions, but the "everything else" needs its own separate forum so these stupid arguments stop popping up like dandelions. I am so fucking _sick _of seeing people labeled fat-haters or skinny-wannabes because they have legitimate emotional problems with their size, the way they see themselves, the way others see them, and the way they THINK others see them. That can't be solved with a simple "oh, have some cake and fugeddaboutit! We love fat people here, screw the rest of the world!"

As far as fat appreciation and size acceptance being on the same site, one has basically shit all to do with the other, so I don't know WHY they're paired up here! It's like saying bacon and pork tenderloin taste the same because they come from the same animal.
I honestly don't give a crap about the social struggles of FAs, nor am I a patron of the pay-site boards, or of the library, no offense to anyone on here. The only reason I do come here is because there is a small handful of people that get "it", and I enjoy their posts and talking with them, and because there is absolutely no other moderately active forum on the internet out there for someone like me where I feel I'm at least only partly objectified as a fat woman.


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## joswitch (Sep 23, 2009)

katorade said:


> And once again, this thread sums up why I think this board needs to split like a troubled, quaking amoeba. Size acceptance and fat appreciation do not belong on the same party barge. Hooray for unpopular ideas!



And yet - threads like this serve to confront issues that affect both FAs / FFAs and (SS)BBWs / (SS)BHMs, and while they may get ugly sometimes - maybe they help some people understand each other a bit better and maybe "get real" as applicable... 

btw -I fucking LOVED your "split like a troubled, quaking amoeba" simile though!
Awesome! Truly. No snark. This is my fave phrase that I heard today!


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## joswitch (Sep 23, 2009)

Jes said:


> You make a very good point. It's always been a locus of tension for me, too. This site started as 1 thing and I think that it has, to a great extent, become something else. Or at least includes a lot of something else. *When the object of the fantasy speaks,* it can be very polarizing. I'm not going to villify anyone on either side of this debate but it's definitely a very real problem in my mind.



"When the object of the fantasy speaks," - then the beholder gets to know them as a person. Surely a good thing? Flames n'all??


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## katorade (Sep 23, 2009)

joswitch said:


> And yet - threads like this serve to confront issues that affect both FAs / FFAs and (SS)BBWs / (SS)BHMs, and while they may get ugly sometimes - maybe they help some people understand each other a bit better and maybe "get real" as applicable...



I would agree if that ever really happened, but how many times is this argument rehashed every week? Too many people just don't freaking care on here.


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## Jes (Sep 23, 2009)

joswitch said:


> "When the object of the fantasy speaks," - then the beholder gets to know them as a person. Surely a good thing? Flames n'all??



really? Eh. Can't say I buy that. 

but anyway, and I'm not totally sure how we got here from there in this thread (I blame Stan), but I once, a thousand years ago, posted something here posing the question: what does it mean for a fat woman to have good self esteem/love herself: and I asked for male and female feedback.

The answers seemed to uphold my guess (reached after awhile as a DIms reader/poster) that men/women see evidence of good self esteem differently. And I think that's what Heretic FA, and those who disagree with him, may be tapping into. 

I suspect many people see fat differently, and so they in turn see fat-hatred differently. 

I have been told, many times, by FAs at Dims that not wanting to wear tight/revealing clothing, not wanting to talk about my fat sexually, not being turned on by my fat, not wanting to be called fat in the sack, going to the gym, caring about nutrition, etc. etc., is evidence of the fact that I don't like myself, or don't accept myself, or hate fat, or hate myself, or want to live by 'society's standards.'

What these men never seem to realize is that they want me to throw out society's standards and then adopt theirs, instead. 

Nope. 

Anyway, of course not every man (or every FA) thinks that way, and I respect that. But am I hitting your nail on the head Katorade?


----------



## katorade (Sep 23, 2009)

Jes said:


> really? Eh. Can't say I buy that.
> 
> but anyway, and I'm not totally sure how we got here from there in this thread (I blame Stan), but I once, a thousand years ago, posted something here posing the question: what does it mean for a fat woman to have good self esteem/love herself: and I asked for male and female feedback.
> 
> ...



Pretty much, yeah, especially on the sexuality part. There's a huge divide between looking at fat as a human aspect and looking at it as a sexual aspect, and I feel like it's bridged far too closely on here so that there's no real comfort level for either side. 

Both sides feel encroached upon when a party of the "other side" dips their toe into the conversation. How many FAs feel demonized for making light of the emotional and physical plight of fat people? How many fat people feel ostracized for "bringing down" the fantasy? It's a constant battle on here every single day that's trying to fix itself with a couple of band-aid boards like the BBW forum and the FA/FFA forum, and by restricting the conversations that everyone has on their minds but nobody wants to talk about.


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## Jes (Sep 23, 2009)

katorade said:


> Pretty much, yeah, especially on the sexuality part. There's a huge divide between looking at fat as a human aspect and looking at it as a sexual aspect, and I feel like it's bridged far too closely on here so that there's no real comfort level for either side.
> ...
> and by restricting the conversations that everyone has on their minds but nobody wants to talk about.



i agree. very insightful post.


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## Tad (Sep 23, 2009)

katorade said:


> Pretty much, yeah, especially on the sexuality part. There's a huge divide between looking at fat as a human aspect and looking at it as a sexual aspect, and I feel like it's bridged far too closely on here so that there's no real comfort level for either side.
> 
> Both sides feel encroached upon when a party of the "other side" dips their toe into the conversation. How many FAs feel demonized for making light of the emotional and physical plight of fat people? How many fat people feel ostracized for "bringing down" the fantasy? It's a constant battle on here every single day that's trying to fix itself with a couple of band-aid boards like the BBW forum and the FA/FFA forum, and by restricting the conversations that everyone has on their minds but nobody wants to talk about.



On one hand I agree with all of this.....but on the other, isn't part of what brings people here the chance to interact with 'the other side,' at least in part? I don't know, maybe for a lot of the BBW they'd be happier with a purely size acceptance forum, minus the sexual content? Pretty clearly most FA would not be so excited by a forum that was almost all other FA, so maybe I'm just speaking as a guy on this side, having possibly more to lose?

And where does that division leave the BHM/FFA board?


----------



## Weeze (Sep 23, 2009)

I love when people who have like, no posts, but have been around for a number of years just come in and start spewing shit.... and then people pay attention to them. 

I also love when Russell Williams bumps a dead thread because there hasn't been enough focus on him in a while, GOD DAMN. DIMS IS QUIET! SOMEONE STIR THE EFFING POT.
Russell, You're my hero. 

Seriously. Anyone notice how this thread is up to 7 pages and um, no longer has ANYTHING to do with the OP?


----------



## Jes (Sep 23, 2009)

Tad said:


> I don't know, maybe for a lot of the BBW they'd be happier with a purely size acceptance forum, minus the sexual content? ?



this one would.


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## katorade (Sep 23, 2009)

Tad said:


> On one hand I agree with all of this.....but on the other, isn't part of what brings people here the chance to interact with 'the other side,' at least in part? I don't know, maybe for a lot of the BBW they'd be happier with a purely size acceptance forum, minus the sexual content? Pretty clearly most FA would not be so excited by a forum that was almost all other FA, so maybe I'm just speaking as a guy on this side, having possibly more to lose?
> 
> And where does that division leave the BHM/FFA board?



Sure, that's part of it, but the scales are tipped. While there are forums that are at the very least socially linked to Dimensions like Fantasy Feeder or Curvage where the focus is almost primarily the sexuality, and the ad banners that abound on here that point in every direction to female fat sexuality, there's no other forums for the people that want to focus solely on the human aspect of it, men and women both. At least not that I've found. 

I feel like we're left to converse shamefully in secrecy about the ISSUES we have with fat, otherwise we're called nay-sayers, haters, non-believers, "the problem", etc. I don't hate myself for being fat. I don't hate anyone else for being fat, either. Am I happy with myself 100% of the time? Hell no. I shouldn't have people breathe down my neck about it, either. Do I agree with everyone's views on here? Of course not, but I resent censorship when it's not the "popular" view.


----------



## katorade (Sep 23, 2009)

Jes said:


> this one would.



I would as well, but it doesn't mean I'd never come back over here. It just means I'd be able to pick and choose what content I posted where. Time and a place for everything, you know?


----------



## Tad (Sep 23, 2009)

katorade said:


> I would as well, but it doesn't mean I'd never come back over here. It just means I'd be able to pick and choose what content I posted where. Time and a place for everything, you know?



Fair enough. Although, without as much BBW participation I'm not sure that there would be much recognizable left of the forums here after a while. Look at what portion of the discussions here are between guys, versus those that involve both genders or just women. 

I'm not saying it is in any way your job to preserve Dimensions, just saying that I don't think you can assume that once a major part of discussion moves elsewhere that Dims would carry on in a recognizable way. (not saying good or bad, just....saying)


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## cheekyjez (Sep 24, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> I'm not berating anyone, and to me their size is irrelevant. I'm not going to tell them that they're a bad person and deserve mistreatment, but I'm also not going to enable them (like family members often do -- sneaking in Skittles, McDonalds' shakes, etc., something I see all the time).



This. When someone screws up, which of the following reactions is likely to help them most?

A) Don't worry about it! You're doing just fine!
B) You screwed up. Everyone screws up sometimes. Let's look at why it happened and how you can avoid it in the future.
C) You fail at life and should lock yourself in an armoire. I am ashamed to speak the same language as you.

It seems like some people here feel that anything other than option A is fat-hating.


----------



## imfree (Sep 24, 2009)

cheekyjez said:


> This. When someone screws up, which of the following reactions is likely to help them most?
> 
> A) Don't worry about it! You're doing just fine!
> B) You screwed up. Everyone screws up sometimes. Let's look at why it happened and how you can avoid it in the future.
> ...



A) Hurts the body.
B) There is hope, but you must change.
C) Hurts the spirit.

That's how it looks from where I'm at
and I have lower leg issues, myself.


----------



## frankman (Sep 24, 2009)

cheekyjez said:


> This. When someone screws up, which of the following reactions is likely to help them most?
> 
> A) Don't worry about it! You're doing just fine!
> B) You screwed up. Everyone screws up sometimes. Let's look at why it happened and how you can avoid it in the future.
> ...



I choose C. I've just googled "armoire" pictures, and I'm confident I made the right decision.


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## joswitch (Sep 27, 2009)

Jes said:


> this one would.



just a suggestion - I've noticed that threads on the BBW Board have been "hijacked" by bloke postings a number of times (outside the "ask a question" thread I mean)....

Have you thought of pushing to have the modding on there changed to "no blokes posting - blokes read only"???

That'd help right?


----------



## Jes (Sep 28, 2009)

joswitch said:


> just a suggestion - I've noticed that threads on the BBW Board have been "hijacked" by bloke postings a number of times (outside the "ask a question" thread I mean)....
> 
> Have you thought of pushing to have the modding on there changed to "no blokes posting - blokes read only"???
> 
> That'd help right?



could we do that for the whole site?



I had always wanted the bbw board to be a private space and that's how I voted when the vote came up. I can't say I've read the board in its current form. Maybe 3 or 4 times. The voices speaking aren't really the ones I'd like to hear, at least during my few visits there.


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## joswitch (Sep 28, 2009)

@Jes - Err.. Why would you want to do that for the whole site?? I understand that *you* don't like to talk/hear about fat sexuality/erotica and that you'd like an a/non sexual discussion place.. Fair enough. But are you really implying you want to stop everyone else discussing these things? WTF!? That's a "dog in the manger" attitude you have there... ... And if you've only been to the BBW board 3 or 4 times and didnt like what you saw.. Why not post more on there yourself? And/or encourage those you'd like to hear from to post there? If you want to see the changes you desire you should be prepared to do some shovelling yourself.


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## Jes (Sep 28, 2009)

joswitch said:


> @Jes - Err.. Why would you want to do that for the whole site?? I understand that *you* don't like to talk/hear about fat sexuality/erotica and that you'd like an a/non sexual discussion place.. Fair enough. But are you really implying you want to stop everyone else discussing these things? WTF!? That's a "dog in the manger" attitude you have there... ... And if you've only been to the BBW board 3 or 4 times and didnt like what you saw.. Why not post more on there yourself? And/or encourage those you'd like to hear from to post there? If you want to see the changes you desire you should be prepared to do some shovelling yourself.



You think I haven't been told to think about everyone else, before? I'm a woman. A woman. 

I'm tired of thinking about everyone else's needs and wants; I feel like thinking about mine for a change.

If you hadn't noticed, simply thinking about my own wants and needs won't magically change this site, so why the raging against my machine? I'm not trying to change your mind; why on earth would you try to change mine? I mean, really now.


----------



## katorade (Sep 28, 2009)

Tad said:


> Fair enough. Although, without as much BBW participation I'm not sure that there would be much recognizable left of the forums here after a while. Look at what portion of the discussions here are between guys, versus those that involve both genders or just women.
> 
> I'm not saying it is in any way your job to preserve Dimensions, just saying that I don't think you can assume that once a major part of discussion moves elsewhere that Dims would carry on in a recognizable way. (not saying good or bad, just....saying)




That really screams volumes about the board as a community, though, wouldn't you agree?


----------



## Fuzzy Necromancer (Sep 28, 2009)

...yeah.


Sooo, high Penny!  Welcome to the forums! Glad you like it here (so far)

*gives you a fruit basket*


----------



## Wagimawr (Sep 28, 2009)

Fuzzy Necromancer said:


> high


FUCK YOU ENGLISH I DON'T NEED YOU ANYWAY


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## Paquito (Sep 28, 2009)

Russell Williams said:


> More reasonable advice might be to tell the person who ate the pie and was diabetic to follow her doctors advice about taking extra insulin after a large meal and then and to check her sugar about 1 hour later and follow her doctor's advice about what to do when she has whatever suger level she happens to test at.



My grandfather took that idea to heart. Just ate whatever, no dietary changes, relied only on insulin to manage his diabetes.

My grandfather ended up having his legs amputated due to his poor diet, a few months before his passing due to diabetes-related liver issues.

Think before you speak.


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## Tad (Sep 28, 2009)

katorade said:


> That really screams volumes about the board as a community, though, wouldn't you agree?



Sure, OK, I'd agree that it probably does....but I suspect what it says may vary by who 'hears' it. If you had a particular point there I'm afraid it went whizzing past me, with standing there looking all  I may be willing to talk an idea to death, but I don't claim to be especially quick on the up-take.

If you feel like explaining, please do. If you don't, no pressure.


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## frankman (Sep 28, 2009)

Jes said:


> could we do that for the whole site?
> [...]



Isn't the boss of this site a guy? Would he be alowed to post on his own forum? Somehow I don't think he would be satisfied with just watching chicks discuss girly stuff. 

But hey, opinions are sacred...


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## joswitch (Sep 28, 2009)

Jes said:


> You think I haven't been told to think about everyone else, before? I'm a woman. A woman.
> 
> I'm tired of thinking about everyone else's needs and wants; I feel like *thinking* about mine for a change.
> 
> If you hadn't noticed, simply *thinking* about my own wants and needs won't magically change this site, so why the raging against my machine? I'm not trying to change your mind; why on earth would you try to change mine? I mean, really now.



Oh puh-leeze! Martyr complex much? 

One - you're not "*thinking*" - you're *posting* - talking to other actual people outside your own head! Helllooooooo! Earth calling Jes!

Two - I'm hardly "raging", just exasperated by your negativity!

Three - I understand you haven't got what you want... and I was (trying to) constructively engage with you on how *you* might get what you want - but you chose to post:



> could we do that for the whole site?



Here's a clue - if you want to get your wants fulfilled, don't go *out of your way* to dis(approve) / block / negate others...*

Whatever their sex / gender / orientation / race / whatever....

Misandry stinks just as bad as misogyny.

I was *trying* to be helpful (to you)...
Because, y'know, I don't believe that you getting what you want and me getting what I want must be mutually exclusive**...



> I had always wanted the bbw board to be a private space and that's how I voted when the vote came up. I can't say I've read the board in its current form. Maybe 3 or 4 times. The voices speaking aren't really the ones I'd like to hear, at least during my few visits there.




So post more! Start threads on subjects YOU care about!
No wonder it's not what YOU want - I've visited there far more often as a non-posting reader than you have as someone who is entitled to post there! :doh:

In one last effort to be constructive for/with you - may I recommend to you both the body and comments sections of Kate Harding's Shapely Prose? If you're looking for Size Acceptance discussion from a purely, exclusively female perspective then I'd say it's likely right up your street, as well as being well written, interesting and thought provoking.....http://kateharding.net/

And lastly - if you don't find anything pre-existing to suit your tastes - why not set up your own forum? To pursue your own agenda? I understand it's pretty straightforward and mostly cheap / free nowadays...



(*Note 1: that's a theme many female posters on DIMS have been banging away at the fellas with for ages - and it. cuts. both. ways.)

(**Note 2: In fact having experienced anarchy / collectivism / enlightened self interest in successful action over the last ooooh, 11 years... I believe that it's worth looking out for other people's wants to some extent *as well as my own*... cos from experience I've found that I'm more likely to get my wants fulfilled, too... It's not an exact science but it's surprising how well it can function with the right people...)


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## joswitch (Sep 28, 2009)

Tad said:


> On one hand I agree with all of this.....but on the other, isn't part of what brings people here the chance to interact with 'the other side,' at least in part? I don't know, maybe for a lot of the BBW they'd be happier with a purely size acceptance forum, minus the sexual content?



Errr... I don't know about "a lot" Tad... certainly *some* and quite probably a loud and noticeable *some*.... but I can think of a number of BBWs who regularly post on here (outside the PaysiteB) who make it clear that they enjoy "sexual content" and I'm sure you can too.... 
Step forward ladies! you know who you are! 



> Pretty clearly most FA would not be so excited by a forum that was almost all other FA, so maybe I'm just speaking as a guy on this side, having possibly more to lose?



.... so I don't think it'd be the "scorched earth" you suggest if the "no-sexay-please"-folks upped sticks and left.... 

Although I do feel that some of those folks make really useful contributions - the discussion on diabetes going on in this thread for instance... So that would be missed... 
As I mentioned up thread I don't think a "reality check" is a bad thing per. se. - the Main and Health boards exist at least partly for that, surely? there's the protected sexay boards for the fantasy sharing....

@Katorade and Jes - the "spillover" that annoys you has a lot more to do with humans being humans than DIMS as a forum, IMO.... And, well you can hide from that or ignore it or address it or...... 



> And where does that division leave the BHM/FFA board?



point.


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## katorade (Sep 28, 2009)

I would like to clarify that when I referred to a split between the sexual and human aspects of the board, I should say I meant objectification rather than sexual, since sex truly is a large part of human nature. I don't see why a sexuality forum WOULDN'T be welcomed as a topic, just not as a commodity.


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## joswitch (Sep 28, 2009)

changed my mind... let's not be poking with a stick 'til the stick is sharp! 

hehehhe now *I'm* being unnecessarily gnomic! I feel like I stole mossy's shoes! 
*runs away*


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## Jes (Sep 28, 2009)

i'm going to be honest, here. Joswich. I didn't read all of this. Can't read if too long. You are very obviously much more interested in this topic than am I, so I'm going to leave you to it. I'm not sure how speaking my truth makes me a martyr...and to what would I be sacrificing myself? The obelisk of Dims? Honestly. You're just not that important to me right now, sorry. I don't say that out of anger, it's just simple fact. I would never try to change your opinion and I can't say I really understand why peoplery just that, online. You've voiced your opinion and my reply is: don't care. Maybe I would have 5 years ago, when I came to Dims. Maybe I would be furious and upset 5 years ago. Now? No. 

good luck to you. wind at your back and all of that.


----------



## Jes (Sep 28, 2009)

katorade said:


> That really screams volumes about the board as a community, though, wouldn't you agree?


i think you must be smart as a whip kate. and not just b/c i probably agree with you on many things. there's something in your delivery that lets me know you've got your finger on the pulse.


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## mossystate (Sep 28, 2009)

joswitch said:


> hehehhe now *I'm* being unnecessarily gnomic! I feel like I stole mossy's shoes!
> *runs away*



Now I know what you do when a person does not find you amazing. :happy: Let it gooooo, jos.


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## HereticFA (Sep 28, 2009)

katorade said:


> I would like to clarify that when I referred to a split between the sexual and human aspects of the board, I should say I meant objectification rather than sexual, since sex truly is a large part of human nature. I don't see why a sexuality forum WOULDN'T be welcomed as a topic, just not as a commodity.



The last online size acceptance board that enforced such a draconian split as you're proposing was the NAAFA board. It certainly cleaned that place out, down to the moderators. I'm not sure they ever recovered to the previously rich diversity of ideas and viewpoints that used to be found there.

It's amazing to me how you and a few of the other ladies here seem to always blame fat acceptance views or approaches that run counter to your own as being sexually driven and deviant. Why do you do that? (Maybe those ladies comprise the "handful of others who get it" you mentioned earlier.) A lot of your posts seem to indicate you don't want any aspect of anyones body considered. It seems to make _you_ feel objectified. This seems to be applied even if it's not your body being discussed but just an aspect you share in common with someone else. That seems like a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to me, especially when brought up _before_ it happens.


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## katorade (Sep 28, 2009)

Sorry, but I'm not going to apologize for having a problem with uninvited objectification.


----------



## tonynyc (Sep 28, 2009)

HereticFA said:


> The last online size acceptance board that enforced such a draconian split as you're proposing was the NAAFA board. It certainly cleaned that place out, down to the moderators. I'm not sure they ever recovered to the previously rich diversity of ideas and viewpoints that used to be found there.



*HereticFA:

Thankfully the Dims community has remained diverse enough to please all taste and we've not become .....*

*The Dims Temperance Thread - Coming to a Forum Soon*


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## HereticFA (Sep 28, 2009)

katorade said:


> Sorry, but I'm not going to apologize for having a problem with uninvited objectification.



But like most self defense, it's considered bad form to retaliate _before_ you are attacked, er, objectified. Otherwise you are just another attacker.


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## Jes (Sep 28, 2009)

HereticFA said:


> It's amazing to me how you and a few of the other ladies here seem to .


there are ladies here?


----------



## HereticFA (Sep 29, 2009)

tonynyc said:


> *The Dims Temperance Thread - Coming to a Forum Soon*


You forgot the BBW who was the symbol of that movement...

CARRIE NATION 

View attachment Carrie-Nation.jpg


----------



## vardon_grip (Sep 29, 2009)

joswitch said:


> Oh puh-leeze! Martyr complex much?
> One - you're not "*thinking*" - you're *posting* - talking to other actual people outside your own head! Helllooooooo! Earth calling Jes!
> Two - I'm hardly "raging", just exasperated by your negativity!
> Three - I understand you haven't got what you want... and I was (trying to) constructively engage with you on how *you* might get what you want - but you chose to post:
> ...



You can't have a constructive discussion when you are being so condescending and childish. With all of your ""puh-leezes", "errrs", "Hellooooooos", "earth callings", "dohs", clue giving, eye rolling, martyr calling head smacks, why would anyone want to engage your post or respond with anything but contempt?

Do you argue why someone likes Coke over Pepsi? Just because some people would like to see this site without sexual content doesn't mean that your rights are being infringed on. A question was asked about content and Jes responded with her opinion. That wasn't a call for a fight or discussion. 

I think that you can discuss all the sexual issues you want without sexual content. Is it a horrible thought that people want to discuss fat issues without worrying about your "right" to jizz all over it? Discussions can be about about feeding, BBW, SSBBW, squashing etc., but if you're going to complain about no pix or stories-be honest about it-It's not the same if you can't jerk off to it.

You can't call someone out on (lack of) posting when that person has THIRTY-SIX TIMES the number of posts that you do and has been around almost 3X as long. What, are you trying to teach Muhammad Ali how to box?

Some opinions may run contrary to yours,
That doesn't mean it is an opportunity for you to change their minds.


Yes, I know...I totally don't get it.


----------



## Jes (Sep 29, 2009)

vardon_grip said:


> You can't call someone out on (lack of) posting when that person has THIRTY-SIX TIMES the number of posts that you do and has been around almost 3X as long. What, are you trying to teach Muhammad Ali how to box?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I know...I totally don't get it.



*coy giggle* Oh, you flatter me, Vardon, you flatter me. 

also? i know kate harding. I've met her. Personally. And talked with her. And corresponded with her.

Just because I'm not contributing here in a way you think I should, doesn't mean that I'm not contributing somewhere else in a way *I* think I should. I didn't start a thread saying: NONE OF YOU IS POSTING THE WAY I WANT! I just answered Tad's question. The end. Vagina.


----------



## FatAndProud (Sep 29, 2009)

tl;dr

Draaaaaaaamaaaaaaaaaa


----------



## Jes (Sep 29, 2009)

FatAndProud said:


> tl;dr
> 
> Draaaaaaaamaaaaaaaaaa



i know! doncha just love it!!


----------



## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

Jes said:


> i'm going to be honest, here. Joswich. I didn't read all of this. Can't read if too long. You are very obviously much more interested in this topic than am I, so I'm going to leave you to it.



WTF? 
4 and a half paragraphs = tl;dr for you?
Wow.

Er, *you* and Katorade *started* this topic.
I chimed in with genuine support / suggestion - *for* the idea of a BBW only space (as in *really*, not the leaky boat that is current BBW board).
.....
And then - you floated the idea that "all menz should just shut up all the timez". And I called you out on that shit.



> I'm not sure how speaking my truth makes me a martyr...and to what would I be sacrificing myself? The obelisk of Dims?



It's this faux victimhood I'm referring to: 



> You think I haven't been told to think about everyone else, before? I'm a woman. A woman.
> 
> I'm tired of thinking about everyone else's needs and wants; I feel like thinking about mine for a change.



This = BS (in the context). 
You have just as much power on here / on the interwebs as me or anyother equivalent male. In cyberspace no-one sees you scratch your balls... (or not).

You threw this up as a smokescreen to try and cover up that you wanted to silence all men on here all the time.



> Honestly. You're just not that important to me right now, sorry. I don't say that out of anger, it's just simple fact. I would never try to change your opinion and I can't say I really understand why peoplery just that, online. You've voiced your opinion and my reply is: don't care. Maybe I would have 5 years ago, when I came to Dims. Maybe I would be furious and upset 5 years ago. Now? No.
> 
> good luck to you. wind at your back and all of that.



More smoke and mirrors.
Bye then.
*weary sigh*


----------



## Jes (Sep 29, 2009)

joswitch said:


> WTF?
> 4 and a half paragraphs = tl;dr for you?
> Wow.
> 
> ...



oh lord. again. look, clearly it's unkind to say to someone: didn't read this, but I think it's only fair. 
When I see the posts in which there's a quote, and then commentary, and then a quote and then commentary and box box box...I'm just not into it. Sorry. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. 

I don't want your support. And that's ok. I haven't asked for it and I don't want it. I made a wry 'if we can put 1 man on the moon, why can't we put all of them there' joke. I wasn't actually suggesting, here in an off-topic thread that began with pie, that we overthrow Dims. Surely you MUST see that? Surely? 

Don't be bothered that I"m not interested in your support. I'll bastardize Katorade and say: I won't apologize for not wanting something I didn't ask for. I certainly wish you no ill-will Joswich, but we're speaking at cross purposes, here. Do you see?


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 29, 2009)

if someone is so cleverly pwned that he (or she!) doesn't even realize that he (or she!) has been handed his (or her!) own ass all neatly wrapped in a sling, has he (or she!) really been pwned?


----------



## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

Try reading what has actually been said before you critique.



vardon_grip said:


> Do you argue why someone likes Coke over Pepsi? Just because some people would like to see this site without sexual content doesn't mean that your rights are being infringed on. A question was asked about content and Jes responded with her opinion. That wasn't a call for a fight or discussion.



IF you'd bothered to READ THE THREAD you'd have seen that I was all supportive of Jes's want for a BBW-only space right up until THIS interchange:



> > *Originally Posted by joswitch *
> > just a suggestion - I've noticed that threads on the BBW Board have been "hijacked" by bloke postings a number of times (outside the "ask a question" thread I mean)....
> >
> > *Have you thought of pushing to have the modding on there changed to "no blokes posting - blokes read only"???*
> ...



THAT!^ RIGHT THERE^! is a call for a fight!

Just imagine - for a fleeting instant - if *I* or anyother bloke had suggested that DIMS would be better if "them womenz would jest shut up alla time"...
Imagine! the flaming shit storm that would've been unleashed on the head of the damn fool who posted that censorious high-handed crap! And RIGHTLY so. So why the fuck should Jes get away with doing the exact same thing? Huh?



> Vardon:
> You can't call someone out on (lack of) posting when that person has THIRTY-SIX TIMES the number of posts that you do and has been around almost 3X as long. What, are you trying to teach Muhammad Ali how to box?



( btw, fyi I've been around here since 1998... I used to be Fidgreen on the old boards... tho' that's not relevant, except to shut off your "nOob" BS.......)

Again you NEED to READ what is ACTUALLY being said. 
That Jes has made so many posts on DIMS in general only goes to make her stance seem more like empty whining, because she said:



> *Jes:*
> I had always wanted the bbw board to be a private space and that's how I voted when the vote came up. *I can't say I've read the board in its current form. Maybe 3 or 4 times. The voices speaking aren't really the ones I'd like to hear, at least during my few visits there*.



Why isn't such a prolific poster as Jes on there *making* it into the very thing it's meant to be? The very thing that she was complaining was lacking on DIMS in this thread? (before her excursion into "shut up menz" territory)




> You can't have a constructive discussion when you are being so condescending and childish. With all of your ""puh-leezes", "errrs", "Hellooooooos", "earth callings", "dohs", clue giving, eye rolling, martyr calling head smacks, why would anyone want to engage your post or respond with anything but contempt?



Censorious, dog-in-the-manger attitudes and whiny, faux victimhood deserve a good dose of condescension.

But let's face it. When I've posted in a super serious tone - people who disagree with my point have attacked me for being super serious. When I cut loose a little people who disagree with my point attack me for being "childish"... I don't see you out there laying the smackdown on say mossy or GEF or Katorade or any of the female posters who use those same exact posting ticks all the time. So I call BULLSHIT on your little lecture here.



> I think that you can discuss all the sexual issues you want without sexual content.



What? Are you high? 



> Is it a horrible thought that people want to discuss fat issues without worrying about your "right" to jizz all over it? Discussions can be about about feeding, BBW, SSBBW, squashing etc., but if you're going to complain about no pix or stories-be honest about it-It's not the same if you can't jerk off to it.



Seriously. WTF are you on about here?
All this "jizz" and "jerk off" bollocks.
You're just fancying up your calling me a wanker.
Well fuck that shit.
You're not even remotely engaged with what Jes and I were actually discussing.
Put down the crack pipe and back. away. from. the. keyboard.


----------



## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

Jes said:


> *coy giggle* Oh, you flatter me, Vardon, you flatter me.
> 
> also? i know kate harding. I've met her. Personally. And talked with her. And corresponded with her.



So - your bemoaning of the lack of places on the web for female-only, nonsexual expression and interaction really *was* just a smokescreen for you to disapprove of people (men in particular) talking about sexuality. Good to know.



> Just because I'm not contributing here in a way you think I should, doesn't mean that I'm not contributing somewhere else in a way *I* think I should. I didn't start a thread saying: NONE OF YOU IS POSTING THE WAY I WANT! I just answered Tad's question. The end. Vagina.



You did however suggest that all men on DIMS should not be allowed to post.
It's right up there!^


----------



## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

Jes said:


> oh lord. again. look, clearly it's unkind to say to someone: didn't read this, but I think it's only fair.
> When I see the posts in which there's a quote, and then commentary, and then a quote and then commentary and box box box...I'm just not into it. Sorry. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
> 
> I don't want your support. And that's ok. I haven't asked for it and I don't want it. I made a wry 'if we can put 1 man on the moon, why can't we put all of them there' joke. I wasn't actually suggesting, here in an off-topic thread that began with pie, that we overthrow Dims. Surely you MUST see that? Surely?
> ...



Oh, it was a joke was it? Oh, rilly???
Try these 

I'm not asking you to want my support.
Ok, we're done here.


----------



## katorade (Sep 29, 2009)

joswitch said:


> What? Are you high?




WHY is that a hard concept to grasp?


----------



## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

mossystate said:


> Now I know what you do when a person does not find you amazing. :happy: Let it gooooo, jos.



OMG! That's sooo cool!
If I call your name you just *poof* into the thread! 
hehehehe!

If I look in the mirror and say your name three times will you pop up like the Candyman with a chain and a butcher's hook???

mossystate...
mossySTATE...
Mos. ......

Nah...  that movie totally shit me up back in the day...

That you don't find me amazing has zero to do with why it's soooo much fun to take the mickey out of you!
And to steal your shtick...
And to pay you the odd back-handed compliment...
(you totally missed that - back in that "giantess" crack didn't you?)


----------



## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

katorade said:


> WHY is that a hard concept to grasp?



'kay - so how would you go about discussing the ins and outs of say - cunnilingus technique (a sexual issue) without sexual content??
Just one for instance of a vast array....


(AVAST! A RAY! -
what pirates say when hunting certain species of kinda flat-looking sharks 
)


----------



## TraciJo67 (Sep 29, 2009)

.... a-a-a-a-aaaaand ..... SCENE!

(hey it was that or the worn worf facepalm gif)


----------



## Miss Vickie (Sep 29, 2009)

joswitch said:


> OMG! That's sooo cool!
> If I call your name you just *poof* into the thread!
> hehehehe!
> 
> ...



And you ask if katorade's high? I might ask the same of you, given the rather rambling nature of your posts.

And yes, it's possible to discuss sexual matters without getting one's yaya's, yes? I think that's what Katorade's referring to.


----------



## Mathias (Sep 29, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> And you ask if katorade's high? I might ask the same of you, given the rather rambling nature of your posts.
> 
> And yes, it's possible to discuss sexual matters without getting one's yaya's, yes? I think that's what Katorade's referring to.



I think this whole thread is rambling honestly.


----------



## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> And you ask if katorade's high? I might ask the same of you, given the rather rambling nature of your posts.
> 
> And yes, it's possible to discuss sexual matters without getting one's yaya's, yes? I think that's what Katorade's referring to.



I asked if Vardongrip was high! C'mon keep up Miss Vickie! 

There's a time for serious and a time for silly.
And I just used up most of my serious on Jes.
Mossy I am totally having fun with now...
It's the only response that makes any sense...

*spiralling back around*

Look, I get that folks are tired of being used as "wank fodder", but if you take that to the point of dancing around the subject of sex and always trying to be terribly bloody solemn about it all cos you're worried that someone, somewhere might be fapping??? then you're totally going to kill any real discussion... And also engaging in an excercise in futility...

'Cos people are weird as.
And right now somewhere on the interwebz someone is probably fapping to *this* thread.

You do know there are guys out there who are turned on by angry feminists right? No, rilly! 

Oh, I am killing me... 

We are adults. Why be so afraid of teh sexay talking?


----------



## Mathias (Sep 29, 2009)

joswitch said:


> I asked if Vardongrip was high! C'mon keep up Miss Vickie!
> 
> There's a time for serious and a time for silly.
> And I just used up most of my serious on Jes.
> ...



.........:doh:


----------



## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> .... a-a-a-a-aaaaand ..... SCENE!
> 
> (hey it was that or the worn worf facepalm gif)



Curtain...
aaaaand
Cue the dancing dachsunds in tutus!

can worf do a guest tapdance solo ala The Muppet Show? plzkthnx


----------



## Sugar (Sep 29, 2009)

joswitch said:


> 'kay - so how would you go about discussing the ins and outs of say - cunnilingus technique (a sexual issue) without sexual content??
> Just one for instance of a vast array....
> 
> 
> ...



I'm sure I'm going to regret saying anything because there is no happy medium with you however...

It is pretty amazing to me that you didn't have a single thing to say to support Penny or offer some thoughts. You magically popped in this thread on page 6 to argue with someone. Everyone else that has chimed in has also shown some support on this thread or the other one that started this one. 

As much as you claim you're just using some tactic that the female posters use I see a stark difference here. They were telling the OP to keep their chin up in the face of jerkdom. You on the other hand have shown yet again you want to argue and you do so in a meandering hard to follow way. 

It wouldn't really matter if you have a valid point. You invalidate them with stereotypical air head comments. Vardon wasn't crazy when he pointed out your "hellloooos" only serves to negate your stance. 

You're on a board with a range of people. Some of them are highly educated, some of them hardly...but they all deserve to be talked to in a way that is void of condescending and purposely confusing babble. Can Mossy be salty? Of course. Does she have a heart so big that makes me in awe of her? You betcha. Point is the only thing you bother to show is that you A) know how to use the font tool bar & B) you only seem to agree with your point.

If you refuse to meet people in the middle on some level they will never hear you and your points will remain moot.


----------



## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

Mathias said:


> .........:doh:



see - he's only using ONE hand to facepalm!

What is the OTHER hand doing???


(I kid, I kid...)


----------



## katorade (Sep 29, 2009)

joswitch said:


> 'kay - so how would you go about discussing the ins and outs of say - cunnilingus technique (a sexual issue) without sexual content??
> Just one for instance of a vast array....
> 
> 
> ...



Like I said before, it's not the sexual discussion I have issues with, it's the objectification. It's like going into a thread where _people_, not just women, are discussing something of a sexual nature like freaking adults and some jack-off comes in and says something like "oh yeah, i'd love to lick your crack, Miss Vickie" (sorry Vick, you were just handy!) when she didn't *ask *for someone to approach her or comment on something she simply wasn't digging for.

It's what happens when you have a gaggle of socially inept fuckwits that think their compliments towards women in atmospheres like the paysite boards or on porn sites are actually acceptable and PROPER in everyday society! I have absolutely no problem with men being a part of any discussion as long as they can keep it in their pants while doing it, and the same goes for women in my mind, but I don't really _have_ that issue here, so it's not a problem for me. 

If I WAS looking for that kind of attention, then I would go ahead and make myself a pay site, or post in the threads meant for that sort of thing, but there's a real problem with that behavior popping up where it isn't warranted because according to a lot of guys on here, "this site is for fat appreciation" and that apparently means that if I want to talk about what my sex life is like, problems and all, that I have to deal with some sleazy piece of shit commenting about how much he'd like to give me a rooting, and I'm supposed to take that as a compliment, and if I DON'T, then I just have to be okay with it because he's just a little socially awkward and needs to be coddled. 

Apparently, I only get to be accepted as either a self-hating fat bitch or a self-loving, spread it around, fat goddess. How do you not see that I am well within my rights to want to find a comfortable middle ground?!?


----------



## Paquito (Sep 29, 2009)

joswitch said:


> I asked if Vardongrip was high! C'mon keep up Miss Vickie!
> 
> There's a time for serious and a time for silly.
> And I just used up most of my serious on Jes.
> ...



I don't understand this. Like literally, it makes noooo sense at all. I think it's the weird way you organize your posts.

A little less
of this oddness
because it's annoying
to read
got it?

and yea...less  goes a long  way
ok? :doh:


----------



## TraciJo67 (Sep 29, 2009)

katorade said:


> Like I said before, it's not the sexual discussion I have issues with, it's the objectification. It's like going into a thread where _people_, not just women, are discussing something of a sexual nature like freaking adults and some jack-off comes in and says something like "oh yeah, i'd love to lick your crack, Miss Vickie" (sorry Vick, you were just handy!) when she didn't *ask *for someone to approach her or comment on something she simply wasn't digging for.
> 
> It's what happens when you have a gaggle of socially inept fuckwits that think their compliments towards women in atmospheres like the paysite boards or on porn sites are actually acceptable and PROPER in everyday society! I have absolutely no problem with men being a part of any discussion as long as they can keep it in their pants while doing it, and the same goes for women in my mind, but I don't really _have_ that issue here, so it's not a problem for me.
> 
> ...




Disclaimer: I don't read much of what joswitch posts (sorry, jos ... it hurts my brain to try to decipher most of it, especially with how it is formatted). Now here's my lukewarm, toe-dipping in the water while I'm cringing in anticipation of the cold kinda endorsement: He might be a bit on the sleazy side but I don't equate him with the chunks of fecal matter that you're otherwise talking about, Katorade. I like Jos. Don't beat me ::: whimper :::

Taking him out of the equation altogether, I love what you've said and how you said it. Especially the bolded part. I cringe every time I see some man throwing out the "self loathing fat woman" bit in response to a concept that he doesn't seem to even vaguely COMPREHEND nor possess any ability to empathize with. THAT is sleazy, and manipulative, and candy-coated fecal matter, to me.


----------



## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

Lucky said:


> I'm sure I'm going to regret saying anything because there is no happy medium with you however...
> 
> It is pretty amazing to me that you didn't have a single thing to say to support Penny or offer some thoughts. You magically popped in this thread on page 6 to argue with someone. Everyone else that has chimed in has also shown some support on this thread or the other one that started this one.



This thread de-railed waaaaay before I chimed in.
Don't blame me for that.
And there's been plenty of folk have offered up good posts re. diabetes - which was what brought Penny here in the first place.



> As much as you claim you're just using some tactic that the female posters use I see a stark difference here. They were telling the OP to keep their chin up in the face of jerkdom.



Again read the thread. Katorade and Jes proposed DIMS should split.



> You on the other hand have shown yet again you want to argue and you do so in a meandering hard to follow way.


I came in on the thread addressing their remarks in a constructive manner.
Only when Jes went off on one did I...
Y'know what - just READ THE THREAD^



> It wouldn't really matter if you have a valid point. You invalidate them with stereotypical air head comments.
> .....
> and purposely confusing babble.



This kind of shiz is a sorta test. Out there. Somewhere. Is someone. Some girl. Who can keep up. :smitten:



> Vardon wasn't crazy when he pointed out your "hellloooos" only serves to negate your stance.


Not crazy. Just wrong.



> You're on a board with a range of people. Some of them are highly educated, some of them hardly...but they all deserve to be talked to in a way that is void of condescending



No they don't always deserve that. Not when they propose silencing a whole group of people due to their gender. Or whine about webzstuff that is clearly in their own power to change^




> Can Mossy be salty? Of course. Does she have a heart so big that makes me in awe of her? You betcha. Point is the only thing you bother to show is that you A) know how to use the font tool bar & B) you only seem to agree with your point.
> 
> If you refuse to meet people in the middle on some level they will never hear you and your points will remain moot.



Hahaha! Read the thread! I came in on this AGREEING and supporting Jes!
Until she ... Oh just READ!:doh:


----------



## katorade (Sep 29, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Disclaimer: I don't read much of what joswitch posts (sorry, jos ... it hurts my brain to try to decipher most of it, especially with how it is formatted). *Now here's my lukewarm, toe-dipping in the water while I'm cringing in anticipation of the cold kinda endorsement: He might be a bit on the sleazy side but I don't equate him with the chunks of fecal matter that you're otherwise talking about, Katorade. I like Jos. Don't beat me ::: whimper :::*
> 
> Taking him out of the equation altogether, I love what you've said and how you said it. Especially the bolded part. I cringe every time I see some man throwing out the "self loathing fat woman" bit in response to a concept that he doesn't seem to even vaguely COMPREHEND nor possess any ability to empathize with. THAT is sleazy, and manipulative, and candy-coated fecal matter, to me.



I agree that he's not like the guys I'm referring to, which is why it's maddening to me how he can not understand why I'd have such a problem with them. It's like the dean of a college being an apologist for date rapist football players because the team is what makes the school money. Drives me MAD.


----------



## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

katorade said:


> Like I said before, it's not the sexual discussion I have issues with, it's the objectification. It's like going into a thread where _people_, not just women, are discussing something of a sexual nature like freaking adults and some jack-off comes in and says something like "oh yeah, i'd love to lick your crack, Miss Vickie" (sorry Vick, you were just handy!) when she didn't *ask *for someone to approach her or comment on something she simply wasn't digging for.
> 
> It's what happens when you have a gaggle of socially inept fuckwits that think their compliments towards women in atmospheres like the paysite boards or on porn sites are actually acceptable and PROPER in everyday society! I have absolutely no problem with men being a part of any discussion as long as they can keep it in their pants while doing it, and the same goes for women in my mind, but I don't really _have_ that issue here, so it's not a problem for me.
> 
> ...



Okay - I have no problem with anything you've said in this post.

Also - I love this phrase:
"a gaggle of socially inept fuckwits"
Props!


----------



## Sugar (Sep 29, 2009)

joswitch said:


> This thread de-railed waaaaay before I chimed in.
> Don't blame me for that.
> And there's been plenty of folk have offered up good posts re. diabetes - which was what brought Penny here in the first place.
> 
> ...



You just proved my point. You only offer "just READ". I've read it. There is no badge of honor in decoding your babble. 

Good luck with ever being taken seriously. I'm thankful that I tried. I did not succeed and ignore now will take you to a place that makes me happy. :bow:


----------



## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Disclaimer: I don't read much of what joswitch posts (sorry, jos ... it hurts my brain to try to decipher most of it, especially with how it is formatted). Now here's my lukewarm, toe-dipping in the water while I'm cringing in anticipation of the cold kinda endorsement: *He might be a bit on the sleazy side *but I don't equate him with the chunks of fecal matter that you're otherwise talking about, Katorade. I like Jos. Don't beat me ::: whimper :::



Sleazy!?! I am hort! Cut to the quick I tell ya! 
Nice to know that you don't think I'm a "chunk of fecal matter", tho'! Ta!


----------



## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

katorade said:


> I agree that he's not like the guys I'm referring to, which is why it's maddening to me how he can not understand why I'd have such a problem with them. It's like the dean of a college being an apologist for date rapist football players because the team is what makes the school money. Drives me MAD.



I do understand why you have a problem with them.
When you say stuff like "sexual issues without sexual content"
That's just ... vague...
When you specify - *inappropriate sexual attention (from socially inept fuckwits)*.
Then BAM! I'm right there on your side.

Not liking the complicity-with-date-rape analogy.
Nor the implication that I am in a position of power to stop socially inept fuckwits. Surely the mods are the Dean in this context...

But that's by the by.

I agree that the sexay talking should stay confined to the Weight Board, Fat Sexuality, Paysite Board and suchlike. 
I agree that if some dude is all like "Heyyyyyyy baby" then you get to tell the guy off and it's bullshit for him to call "fat-hate"!


----------



## TraciJo67 (Sep 29, 2009)

joswitch said:


> Sleazy!?! I am hort! Cut to the quick I tell ya!
> Nice to know that you don't think I'm a "chunk of fecal matter", tho'! Ta!



OK, that part I truly didn't mean as a back-handed compliment (of the sort that you're always handing out, anyway). I think you're sleazy in a very humorous kind of internet message board way. You crack me up at times. I don't have much patience for your lengthy missives, but I do love me some joswitch one-liners. 

The "not a chunk of fecal matter" though ... ok I admit ... that was a soft lob into your court, josey. As was referring to you as 'josey', josey


----------



## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> OK, that part I truly didn't mean as a back-handed compliment (of the sort that you're always handing out, anyway). I think you're sleazy in a very humorous kind of internet message board way. You crack me up at times. I don't have much patience for your lengthy missives, but I do love me some joswitch one-liners.
> 
> The "not a chunk of fecal matter" though ... ok I admit ... that was a soft lob into your court, josey. As was referring to you as 'josey', josey



Awww.... :blush:


----------



## Miss Vickie (Sep 29, 2009)

Joswitch, if I wanted to work so hard to understand the written word, I'd bury my head in the stack of studies sitting on my desk that I've put off. What I notice in your posts is a total lack of concentration, flights of ideas is I think how they refer to it in "psych speak", where someone's thoughts go off on tangent after tangent, leaving the listener (or reader) baffled. It's just very hard to figure out what you're saying, especially when it's heavily seasoned with ellipses, bolded words, and oddly placed emoticons. I'm sorry. I'm just not going to work so hard. I'm sure you're a nice guy, and very smart, but wow. Can you try to focus a little bit more when you're posting? If you want us to understand you, that is.



katorade said:


> [snippage...]some jack-off comes in and says something like "oh yeah, i'd love to lick your crack, Miss Vickie" (sorry Vick, you were just handy!) when she didn't *ask *for someone to approach her or comment on something she simply wasn't digging for.



Tease! 



> It's what happens when you have a gaggle of socially inept fuckwits that think their compliments towards women in atmospheres like the paysite boards or on porn sites are actually acceptable and PROPER in everyday society!



Yup. It's like trying to talk with 14 year old boys, although at least I can give them the "mommy stare" and they stop. 



> Apparently, I only get to be accepted as either a self-hating fat bitch or a self-loving, spread it around, fat goddess. How do you not see that I am well within my rights to want to find a comfortable middle ground?!?



Yeah that's pretty much spot on how I see it. There's no room for a genuine warm blooded woman to feel comfortable being herself.


----------



## katorade (Sep 29, 2009)

joswitch said:


> I do understand why you have a problem with them.
> When you say stuff like "sexual issues without sexual content"
> That's just ... vague...
> When you specify - *inappropriate sexual attention (from socially inept fuckwits)*.
> ...



I could very well switch dean with any number of people that are okay with that kind of "boys will be boys" behavior if you'd like.

I'm glad you agree with my stance. The ONLY reason I called for a board split in the first place is because a) nothing has been done to combat the issue, and b) it will never end otherwise. It's pretty shitty that the only place we can feel like we're not meat strung up in a window is in a _protected _forum. 

I want more than that lack of respect for everyone on here, men and women. I want women to feel comfortable and valued as human beings with actual thoughts and feelings, not just lusty thoughts and a set of tits, and I want men to not feel like the bad guys, and that women can actually view them as non-predatory, stand-up individuals that aren't "typical guys". I want the "typical guy" to not be another word for douchebag, basically.


----------



## gangstadawg (Sep 29, 2009)

moore2me said:


> *I think I know that cake and it is a sugar free one isn't it Sue?*. Several of the grocery stores and bakeries in my town make some beautiful and delicious sugar free cakes. They also make sugar free pies and brownies. At my recreation club's monthly parties, we serve a sugar free sheet cake that you could not tell it was not made with real sugar (including the frosting).
> 
> And even more marvelous, my hubby and I put up a dozen jars of muscadine jelly Labor Day weekend using Sugar Free/Low Sugar Pectin by Surgel. I haven't opened any of the jars yet because the instructions said to wait a week, but the syrup tasted wonderful and was a lovely deep purple color. We used ½ Splenda and ½ Sugar in the recipe. (Its hard to get jelly to set without some sugar.)
> 
> And being a diabetic on remission myself, I do know that carbohydrates are converted to sugars in my digestive system. So eating a sugar free cake which has carbs and alcohol-based sugars will be converted to simple sugars in my gut. And, eating a whole sugar free cake will raised my blood sugar too (probably not as fast as a real sugar cake, so I would not get the blood sugar spike). One of the worst side effects of eating too much sugar free cake if it has the alcohol based sugars is that it may cause diarrhea. Also, some of those funny, fake sugars that are engineered in the lab are poisonous to pets like the adorable little dog in Penny's avatar.



its suger free!!! aww man the cake is a lie.


----------



## mossystate (Sep 29, 2009)

Jos...you have changed tactics. Used to be you were content to tell the fat people how/if we should or should not lose weight,a nd how we needed to just love ourselves, all the while you were speaking as someone who did not love yourself when you were thinner. You simply could not see why you were getting the flak you got. When that routine got stale, you went commando PM. When I laughed at you there.................this.

Pretty sure you are going to have to do better if you want to " take the mickey " out of me. I do appreciate that, in PM, you went away ...I think I said, shooo ...when I requested it. 

Jolly good, I think your people would say. :happy:

As for anything I have missed in your posts...how the bloody hell could I be asked to do anything but skim some of them. * bloody hell...another gift for you! *


----------



## Mini (Sep 29, 2009)

Threads like this make me think that sex is bad unless I'm the one having it.


----------



## cheekyjez (Sep 29, 2009)

Jes said:


> You've voiced your opinion and my reply is: don't care.



You stated your opinion. Joswitch responded to it. If you don't care about people's responses, why post? You absolutely have the right to express your opinion, but I don't see the point if you're going to dismiss any responses you don't like. You said that you didn't want his support, but stating a grievance implies that you want SOME support. Doesn't it?

I'm really not trying to argue with you here, I just don't understand why you would post something that you didn't want responses to.

(Also, he asked if Vardon was high, not Katorade. Pedant power!)
====
In terms of changing the tenor of the BBW board - I don't think that's something that any one person, no matter how prolific, can do. There's an established culture which will push back against that kind of change. There would need to be some kind of influence or enforcement from on high to make a shift like that. 
====
And I totally get that fat admiration and size acceptance can be (and often are) completely at odds with each other - particularly when the FA starts objectifying. For me, at least, size acceptance is about defining a body image for myself that I can identify with, and that I can feel comfortable with. 

Objectification takes control of that body image away from me which reduces how I feel it fits me, as well as distorting it into something I may not be happy with. 

And the idea that BBWs need to stick around, even if they don't want to, for the benefit of FAs is... yeah. Not so grate, ackshully.
====
As for writing about sexual issues without making it erotic - well, there's going to be someone out there who finds this sentence a major turn-on, because that's the range of human experience. So there's no "catch-all" de-pornification that can be done. What can be done is:

1) Zero tolerance policy on porn responses to serious issues. You can't help it if the idea of someone with diabetes eating a cake gives you a boner. Your boner is not the one that's typing out "omg u r so hott" in response to someone who's really concerned about her health and feeling out of control - that takes brain action, and your brain should have some brakes on it that can stop that.

2) If you have some sexual issue that you need help on, writing about it as clinically as possible can really kill the buzz for a lot of people. 
====
Just my thoughts. Feel free to respond tl;dr.

EDIT: Screaming Lord Sutch, while I was writing this the thread progressed and many of my points were previously covered. I didn't think I was THAT slow...


----------



## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

katorade said:


> I could very well switch dean with any number of people that are okay with that kind of "boys will be boys" behavior if you'd like.
> 
> I'm glad you agree with my stance. The ONLY reason I called for a board split in the first place is because a) nothing has been done to combat the issue, and b) it will never end otherwise. It's pretty shitty that the only place we can feel like we're not meat strung up in a window is in a _protected _forum.
> 
> I want more than that lack of respect for everyone on here, men and women. I want women to feel comfortable and valued as human beings with actual thoughts and feelings, not just lusty thoughts and a set of tits, and I want men to not feel like the bad guys, and that women can actually view them as non-predatory, stand-up individuals that aren't "typical guys". I want the "typical guy" to not be another word for douchebag, basically.



When you say that NOTHING has been done to combat it. I disagree. Everytime you and Jes and other people who feel this way post on boards like this (I've seen so many threads on FF = to this) you're doing something about it. When you spell out - "THIS is pissing me off, cos it's plain old inappropriate!" some people are listening. Some people might take it on board to be less sleazy. Thats what I meant waaaay back up thread when I said: 

"When the object of the fantasy speaks," - then the beholder gets to know them as a person. Surely a good thing? Flames n'all??

And when some other people read your posts, they might take it on board to be more assertive in blowing off sleazebags. 

I get that you feel like it's an uphill struggle. And with the constant influx of No0bs on a site like DIMS it's a somewhat Sisyphusian task. But I think posts like yours make a difference.

How about a sticky at the top of every non-sexay subboard, entitled:

"Don't be a sleazy douchebag!"

Where you and a few other of the BBWs who regularly speak out against this can put an open letter to the effect of what you've just outlined here? Which you can then refer and linky link back to every time some douche gets all rude where they shouldn't be and thus save loads of typing???


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## cheekyjez (Sep 29, 2009)

katorade said:


> Like I said before, it's not the sexual discussion I have issues with, it's the objectification. It's like going into a thread where _people_, not just women, are discussing something of a sexual nature like freaking adults and some jack-off comes in and says something like "oh yeah, i'd love to lick your crack, Miss Vickie" (sorry Vick, you were just handy!) when she didn't *ask *for someone to approach her or comment on something she simply wasn't digging for.
> 
> It's what happens when you have a gaggle of socially inept fuckwits that think their compliments towards women in atmospheres like the paysite boards or on porn sites are actually acceptable and PROPER in everyday society! I have absolutely no problem with men being a part of any discussion as long as they can keep it in their pants while doing it, and the same goes for women in my mind, but I don't really _have_ that issue here, so it's not a problem for me.
> 
> ...



Gah, can't rep Katorade for this post. Can someone get her for me?


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## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

mossystate said:


> Jos...you have changed tactics. *snip* you went commando PM. When I laughed at you there.................this.
> 
> Pretty sure you are going to have to do better if you want to " take the mickey " out of me. I do appreciate that, in PM, you went away ...I think I said, shooo ...when I requested it.
> 
> ...



Play fair now Mossy - I sent you ONE PM! Once! In response to a question you asked me on a thread. Don't make out like I was PM stalking you!
And yes, when you told me to piss off from PM. I pissed off. Cos I'm not a stalkypants scumbag!


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## mossystate (Sep 29, 2009)

@jos...no...never implied you were a ' stalker '....you felt a neeeeeeed to tell me that I was horrible, and that you are just out here to help the fatties, and that you are amazing according to some...it's like you felt a need to bark at me, yet bring a half eaten rabbit to my front door for accolades and understanding...heh...it was a good thing that you obeyed...want a cookie?...yes?....go buy some...and grow some hair for me to muss, dammit!!


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## Jes (Sep 29, 2009)

cheekyjez said:


> You stated your opinion. Joswitch responded to it. If you don't care about people's responses, why post? You absolutely have the right to express your opinion, but I don't see the point if you're going to dismiss any responses you don't like.
> .



my point was that i wasn't interested in what he was suggesting. i just don't care to change my posting behavior or to 'be the change i want to see in the world' in this instance. I've done some of that in my life, and now, I don't choose to. And that's ok. I was hoping to short circuit a very long, intense, quote box quote box quote box exchange with him about something in which I'm not that invested. Saying: I'd like the board better if it was different: is not the same as saying: I'm upset, please tell me how to make this better, I need advice and suggestions. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I'm not trying to bait anyone and most certainly the comment I made (re: men) was a joke, said for effect. I'm not big on emoticons so I just don't use them. Joswich may have responded to something I said, but I wasn't really debating with him. And I don't intend to, now. You'll note that when he said: Bye: to me, I didn't engage him further. 

It's interesting, how this thread has come full circle in a way.


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## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

mossystate said:


> @jos...no...never implied you were a ' stalker '....you felt a neeeeeeed to tell me that I was horrible, and that you are just out here to help the fatties, and that you are amazing according to some...it's like you felt a need to bark at me, yet bring a half eaten rabbit to my front door for accolades and understanding...heh...it was a good thing that you obeyed...want a cookie?...yes?....go buy some...and grow some hair for me to muss, dammit!!



Oh it is sooooo on, now!


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## cheekyjez (Sep 29, 2009)

Ah, OK. I understand now. What I read from your previous post was "there is nothing you could say that would interest me", whereas you meant "that suggestion was not helpful and I don't want to go into why not". Which makes a lot more sense. 

I'm totally with you on the use of emoticons. I get myself in a lot of flamewars because I've said something sarcastically but the other person took it at face value.


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## katorade (Sep 29, 2009)

joswitch said:


> When you say that NOTHING has been done to combat it. I disagree. Everytime you and Jes and other people who feel this way post on boards like this (I've seen so many threads on FF = to this) you're doing something about it. When you spell out - "THIS is pissing me off, cos it's plain old inappropriate!" some people are listening. Some people might take it on board to be less sleazy. Thats what I meant waaaay back up thread when I said:
> 
> "When the object of the fantasy speaks," - then the beholder gets to know them as a person. Surely a good thing? Flames n'all??
> 
> ...



I'll agree there are a number of posters that stand up to it and dole out ruler smacks when they see fit, but there's no enforcement backing it up, there's no consequence for those behaviors, and worst of all, when we DO speak our minds, there's pure hate rained down on us like we're harpies sent to do the feminist Satan's biddings. 
Very, very rarely are our pleas and demands on this subject heard and something actually done about them in an acceptable manner.


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## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

katorade said:


> I'll agree there are a number of posters that stand up to it and dole out ruler smacks when they see fit, but there's no enforcement backing it up, there's no consequence for those behaviors, and worst of all, when we DO speak our minds, there's pure hate rained down on us like we're harpies sent to do the feminist Satan's biddings.
> Very, very rarely are our pleas and demands on this subject heard and something actually done about them in an acceptable manner.



Sooo... Collective lobbying of the mods???

Hm... tho' on 2nd reading it looks like your saying that's already been done...


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## vardon_grip (Sep 29, 2009)

moore2me said:


> *I think I know that cake and it is a sugar free one isn't it Sue?*.





gangstadawg said:


> its suger free!!! aww man the cake is a lie.



The cake is NOT sugar-free.

The cake is called "The Chocolate Bomb" from cake makers, For Heavens Cakes in California. A quick call to the owner confirmed that the cake is not sugar-free nor can it be made sugar-free. Simple research was all that was needed to confirm this.


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## vardon_grip (Sep 29, 2009)

joswitch said:


> What? Are you high?



No, I am not high. That is why my posts don't look like a web that was spun by a spider on LSD.



joswitch said:


> Seriously. WTF are you on about here?
> All this "jizz" and "jerk off" bollocks.
> You're just fancying up your calling me a wanker.
> Well fuck that shit.
> ...



I understand that you are having a difficult time comprehending what I am talking about. That is why when I posted before and as I do so now, I am typing as slowly as possible. I was not calling you a wanker. You have managed to display that trait all on your own. 

Some of the issues in this thread have been about objectification and the "jerking off" reference was aimed more at that. You can't ignore the reasons behind some of the posts as to why less objectification is wanted. When you ask if the problem could be solved by less male participation (males of the objectifying sort)...why are you so surprised and offended at the answer? You asked a flippant question (at least it can be interpreted as flippant) and you got a flippant answer. It wasn't a call to fight. It is difficult for some men to understand when women are just venting, half joking/half serious and when they want action. Regardless, I think that some of the women here don't want your solutions or intervention. 

I will attempt to show you the difference between sexual issues and sexual content since it seems to be confusing you to no end.

Sexual issue (citing an example you used)
Cunnilingus: Discuss your techniques and likes/dislikes

Sexual content
Pictures/Video of people engaging in cunnilingus or stories of such acts.

Do you understand?


I also understand that you think I was calling you a noob. I wasn't. I was comparing your post count and sign up date to Jes' because you seemed to be upset about her not posting. I went by the info that is listed on your profile and on hers. You have under 400 posts in under 2 years and Jes has almost 14 thousand posts in almost 6 years. No one but you knows what sites you were on before or how much you posted, but that's not the point is it? 

I will reiterate-You can't call for a discussion and be angry when you aren't engaged the way you want to. You can't call for a discussion and then be condescending. You also can't follow it up with trying to justify your being condescending and then expect to be engaged. 


I know, I know...I still don't get it and I wish that this keyboard would be taken away from me. Oh well. Sorry for your shit.


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## HereticFA (Sep 30, 2009)

katorade said:


> I'll agree there are a number of posters that stand up to it and dole out ruler smacks when they see fit, but there's no enforcement backing it up, there's no consequence for those behaviors, and worst of all, when we DO speak our minds, there's pure hate rained down on us like we're harpies sent to do the feminist Satan's biddings.
> Very, very rarely are our pleas and demands on this subject heard and something actually done about them in an acceptable manner.



And it's that faux feminism flailing at imagined, non-transpired wrongs that are what so many of us are objecting to. It dilutes efforts to address real wrongs that do occur from time to time.

There are about three people in this thread that were the only ones who brought sexual connotations into the thread. After reviewing many other threads you (and others) have posted in, I see a habitual pattern of this behavior. In each case it was to object where they thought the thread _might be able to go_, not where it had gone. You are the ones initially bringing up the sexual aspect and creating the oppressive environment you seem to be so opposed to. If this were a workplace in a company, I would have filed complaints with HR against each of you for creating a sexually harassing and bullying environment. You are the female equivalents of a guy that complains a woman has dressed provocatively and deserves to be harassed. If you are going to express your dislike of _any possibility_ of an FA's interests coinciding with a thread's subject matter you deserve to be called on it each and every time from now on.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Sep 30, 2009)

Oh man - now you stepped in it. 




HereticFA said:


> And it's that faux feminism flailing at imagined, non-transpired wrongs that are what so many of us are objecting to. It dilutes efforts to address real wrongs that do occur from time to time.
> 
> There are about three people in this thread that were the only ones who brought sexual connotations into the thread. After reviewing many other threads you (and others) have posted in, I see a habitual pattern of this behavior. In each case it was to object where they thought the thread _might be able to go_, not where it had gone. You are the ones initially bringing up the sexual aspect and creating the oppressive environment you seem to be so opposed to. If this were a workplace in a company, I would have filed complaints with HR against each of you for creating a sexually harassing and bullying environment. You are the female equivalents of a guy that complains a woman has dressed provocatively and deserves to be harassed. If you are going to express your dislike of _any possibility_ of an FA's interests coinciding with a thread's subject matter you deserve to be called on it each and every time from now on.


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## katorade (Sep 30, 2009)

HereticFA said:


> And it's that faux feminism flailing at imagined, non-transpired wrongs that are what so many of us are objecting to. It dilutes efforts to address real wrongs that do occur from time to time.
> 
> There are about three people in this thread that were the only ones who brought sexual connotations into the thread. After reviewing many other threads you (and others) have posted in, I see a habitual pattern of this behavior. In each case it was to object where they thought the thread _might be able to go_, not where it had gone. You are the ones initially bringing up the sexual aspect and creating the oppressive environment you seem to be so opposed to. If this were a workplace in a company, I would have filed complaints with HR against each of you for creating a sexually harassing and bullying environment. You are the female equivalents of a guy that complains a woman has dressed provocatively and deserves to be harassed. If you are going to express your dislike of _any possibility_ of an FA's interests coinciding with a thread's subject matter you deserve to be called on it each and every time from now on.




WoooOOOooo, I'm scared. Excuse me for a moment...

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


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## joswitch (Sep 30, 2009)

double post


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## joswitch (Sep 30, 2009)

@vardon - 1) posts aren't pictures, who cares what they "look like" just read the words from left to right and from up to down. Easy. ... 2) No you still don't get it. You've carefully ignored all the relevant details so you can feel smug and righteous and ... repeat yourself. *slow handclap* Well you're too late pal. Thread's moved on. Problem is already solved. Y'see my original question wasn't flippant and was very specific. The disagreement only arose when Jes made a general comment that she failed to mark as a joke... ... @Jes and anyone else who doesn't use emoticons: In print you are working with only 10% of human communication (70% =body posture, 20% =tone of voice) emoticons exist in part to remedy that in short form e.g. web/phone comms. If you don't like them why not try - /joke/ or - (jk) ... If you'd've typed that Jes then I wouldn't've taken it as serious. And no it's not a men/women thing. it's a web thing... This thread would've been two pages shorter if you'd used /jk/ ...


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## Mini (Sep 30, 2009)

joswitch said:


> @vardon - 1) posts aren't pictures, who cares what they "look like" just read the words from left to right and from up to down. Easy. ... 2) No you still don't get it. You've carefully ignored all the relevant details so you can feel smug and righteous and ... repeat yourself. *slow handclap* Well you're too late pal. Thread's moved on. Problem is already solved. Y'see my original question wasn't flippant and was very specific. The disagreement only arose when Jes made a general comment that she failed to mark as a joke... ... @Jes and anyone else who doesn't use emoticons: In print you are working with only 10% of human communication (70% =body posture, 20% =tone of voice) emoticons exist in part to remedy that in short form e.g. web/phone comms. If you don't like them why not try - /joke/ or - (jk) ... If you'd've typed that Jes then I wouldn't've taken it as serious. And no it's not a men/women thing. it's a web thing... This thread would've been two pages shorter if you'd used /jk/ ...



Jos, I don't know you for shit and I don't particularly care if you don't like this:

1) You don't get it. Unless you're a pretentious cunt, communication is about communication. Regardless of the medium, if it takes more work than it's worth to decipher the fuck you're on aboot, you will be ignored. PARAGRAPHS, PLEASE.

2) I'm hardly a saint, but I see where some of the women are coming from, and goddamn, stop making it seem so fucking complicated. If a chick's asking about what she can do to make a rash between her rolls less prominent, she doesn't need to fuckin' hear that it's sexy and that she should love herself more. 

Ladies, Jes, I can truly see where you're coming from and I wish I had more to offer than drunken ramblings.

Oh, alcohol, how you make me care less about nicety.


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## Jes (Sep 30, 2009)

Mini said:


> Oh, alcohol, how you make me care less about nicety.



How can you tell?


Oh, Mini, I still don't want to fuck you in New Jersey, but thanks for weighing in.

I'm glad you get that I didn't care if anyone got my joke. I have been lacking my usual intensity of late. I blame poor health, family feuds, fear of losing my stinkybear, and utter despondency over some of what I see on the innernets. ANd things are threatening to get worse, now. But let us hope together that they'll improve...or else I might end up fucking you in New Jersey.


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## joswitch (Sep 30, 2009)

@mini - 1) when typing on my phone I can't paragraph.. Old phone and old browser.. And if you can't tell if someone is joking or serious, because there's no tone of voice to be heard, and they didnt mark it /jk/ - then yes it IS failure to work the medium. Nothing pretentious about that. 2) FFS! @you and bloody vardon both. If you read what I said to Katorade and Jes too - you'd see I'm agreeing with them re. the rude dicks! They get it! Why don't you?!


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## mossystate (Sep 30, 2009)

Hey...Penny...you still around?


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## HereticFA (Oct 1, 2009)

mossystate said:


> Hey...Penny...you still around?


 * crickets * 


I don't think there's anybody back there. 

View attachment clara_peller_2.jpg


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## vardon_grip (Oct 1, 2009)

joswitch said:


> @vardon - 1) posts aren't pictures, who cares what they "look like" just read the words from left to right and from up to down. Easy. ... 2) No you still don't get it. You've carefully ignored all the relevant details so you can feel smug and righteous and ... repeat yourself. *slow handclap* Well you're too late pal. Thread's moved on. Problem is already solved. Y'see my original question wasn't flippant and was very specific. The disagreement only arose when Jes made a general comment that she failed to mark as a joke... ... @Jes and anyone else who doesn't use emoticons: In print you are working with only 10% of human communication (70% =body posture, 20% =tone of voice) emoticons exist in part to remedy that in short form e.g. web/phone comms. If you don't like them why not try - /joke/ or - (jk) ... If you'd've typed that Jes then I wouldn't've taken it as serious. And no it's not a men/women thing. it's a web thing... This thread would've been two pages shorter if you'd used /jk/ ...



Your posts remind me of a line from crappy movie filmed in Hawaii called North Shore 
"He's so haole, he doesn't even know he's haole!"
*Haole* (_how-lee_)(literal translation-no breath) 1. Foreign visitor, 2. Caucasian person 3. A stranger to the islands, 4.Don't-know-your-ass-from-a-hole-in-the-ground tourist, 
(Translated for context: You're so disconnected-you don't know that you're disconnected)

Ok. You don't understand the difference between sexual issues and sexual content. It is very easy to do, but you won't because you are completely up-down/left-right. If you can't grasp this very simple example, how can you say you understand what is being said here? You say you are in agreement with what some of the women are saying and yet you don't understand what is being said. This is not "fake it 'til you make it."

I agree-there's so much that I don't get. Here's one more...I don't get how others in this thread have disagreed with you and have said that you don't understand what they are trying to communicate and yet you think that you have your finger on the pulse of what is going down. Are the ones who disagree with you all wrong? At what point do you step back and evaluate your words and acknowledge that there are more than a few people in this thread that have said you don't get it? Maybe if we are forced to read what you are spewing out one more time-do you think that we'll finally get it and thank you for your wisdom?

You use shortcuts to communicate (with all your emoticons and netspeak) when there is no shortcut to real communication. 
_If only the other person had used emoticons then this wouldn't be a problem. It's all their fault_
More than one person has said that they have a difficult time wading through your posts because of the lack of direction and the abundance of netspeak. How the hell are you being the great communicator if people can't understand you? You are just being lazy when you rely on your netspeak. You are being an ass when you demand that others conform to your laziness. 

I am reminded of another film when I think of your slow hand clap. There was a not-so-popular character from Not Another Teen Movie, where the character is constantly trying to do the slow hand clap and never knows when the proper time for a slow hand clap is.
*Girl at Party*:" Dude, you can't start a slow clap at any time and expect everyone to join in." 

This thread would be shorter by several pages if you had stopped to listen a bit more than you spoke. 

Lastly, how can you chastise the "rude dicks" when you mock some of the women who have responded to you, mock their feelings and also reply with condescending drivel! Rudeness does not only come in one form. You are being that "rude dick"! 

You're so haole, you don't even know you're haole.


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## joswitch (Oct 1, 2009)

@all the people whining about format of my posts.. when you pay me for my posts, then you can tell me what/how to post. Until that shiny day if you can't be bothered to read what I say - don't bother to respond to me! Problem solved. @vardon - save your breath pal, I put you in the ignore bin last night. ... Unsubscribing from this thread now! bye!


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## cinnamitch (Oct 1, 2009)

joswitch said:


> @all the people whining about format of my posts.. when you pay me for my posts, then you can tell me what/how to post. Until that shiny day if you can't be bothered to read what I say - don't bother to respond to me! Problem solved. @vardon - save your breath pal, I put you in the ignore bin last night. ... Unsubscribing from this thread now! bye!



You put him on IGNORE last night, he posts at 530 this morning, and you replied to HIS post, THIS morning. Hon you need to work on that ignore feature a little bit better than that.


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## Jes (Oct 1, 2009)

cinnamitch said:


> You put him on IGNORE last night, he posts at 530 this morning, and you replied to HIS post, THIS morning. Hon you need to work on that ignore feature a little bit better than that.



Look, cinn, when you pay him to upgrade his technology, then he can buy a phone with the 'ignore poster on Dims' feature, ok?


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## vardon_grip (Oct 1, 2009)

Jes said:


> Look, cinn, when you pay him to upgrade his technology, then he can buy a phone with the 'ignore poster on Dims' feature, ok?



I just made an "Ignore Vardon" app for the iPhone. $1.99
(When you purchase this app, my "Get A Clue" app is included for free)
I'm trying to bundle it with my "Practice Birth Control With Your Personality" app. $1.99 

It's amazing what technology can do nowadays!


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## TraciJo67 (Oct 1, 2009)

vardon_grip said:


> I just made an "Ignore Vardon" app for the iPhone. $1.99
> (When you purchase this app, my "Get A Clue" app is included for free)
> I'm trying to bundle it with my "Practice Birth Control With Your Personality" app. $1.99
> 
> It's amazing what technology can do nowadays!



Could I get a yapping bobble-head Vardon screensaver for my desktop with that?


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## vardon_grip (Oct 1, 2009)

joswitch said:


> @all the people whining about format of my posts.. when you pay me for my posts, then you can tell me what/how to post. Until that shiny day if you can't be bothered to read what I say - don't bother to respond to me! Problem solved. @vardon - save your breath pal, I put you in the ignore bin last night. ... Unsubscribing from this thread now! bye!



*Slow hand clap* (The right moment)


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## vardon_grip (Oct 1, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Could I get a yapping bobble-head Vardon screensaver for my desktop with that?



For you dear, ANYTHING!


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## cinnamitch (Oct 1, 2009)

vardon_grip said:


> For you dear, ANYTHING!


Hey I want a bobble head um thing too..


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## Jes (Oct 1, 2009)

I still want to know what a dog-in-the-manger is. Is it anything like a pig-in-a-blanket?


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## cheekyjez (Oct 1, 2009)

Jes said:


> I still want to know what a dog-in-the-manger is. Is it anything like a pig-in-a-blanket?



It's from one of Aesop's Fables. There is a dog in a manger full of straw. He doesn't want to eat the straw. Various other animals want to eat the straw, but the dog won't let them. Because he cannot benefit from it, he prevents everyone else from doing so.

Or I think that's it. It's been a while.


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## Sugar (Oct 1, 2009)

Jes said:


> I still want to know what a dog-in-the-manger is. Is it anything like a pig-in-a-blanket?



People often begrudge others what they cannot enjoy themselves.


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## vardon_grip (Oct 1, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Could I get a yapping bobble-head Vardon screensaver for my desktop with that?





cinnamitch said:


> Hey I want a bobble head um thing too..



All the ladies want some (bobble) head from me...







Just kidding. I know, my humor is so sophomoronic.


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## Jes (Oct 1, 2009)

cheekyjez said:


> It's from one of Aesop's Fables. There is a dog in a manger full of straw. He doesn't want to eat the straw. Various other animals want to eat the straw, but the dog won't let them. Because he cannot benefit from it, he prevents everyone else from doing so.
> 
> Or I think that's it. It's been a while.



yes. i'd googled it already. but thank you.

i believe i'd prefer a pig in a blanket.


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## Inhibited (Nov 2, 2009)

HereticFA said:


> Sue was trying to emotionally decriminalize Penny's behavior by showing Penny is not alone in eating an entire dessert. Sue was not trying to ridicule or minimize Penny's feelings on the issue.
> 
> I must admit this is what i thought Sue was trying to do too, and i was going to post something similar, about overeating and feeling guilty about it to show Penny that she is not alone in her struggles.
> 
> Golly gosh i knew some of you had very different opinions, but i had no idea that people actually hated each other that much that they use the ignore button.


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