# Newbie/ I think I'm completely mental/ advice



## yoopergirl (Sep 20, 2011)

Hello all. I just discovered Dimensions last week, and I've been looking around the forums and did the whole registration & intro thing, and I've really appreciated being able to see what other BBWs have to say on situations I've dealt with or wondered about but haven't had anyone to talk things out with. I don't have a lot of close friends, and even with my best friends there are certain things I just can't talk about - especially since no one I know is anywhere near my size About 340 now - around 400 at my biggest) and wouldn't understand.

One of the things I have the biggest issues with is the fact that I'm 28 and have never been in a relationship, and as such, I'm totally "inexperienced" (like, might as well have lived in a bubble inexperienced.) I've never let it get to me too much, figuring it would just kind of happen when it was meant to, but I'm kinda reaching a point now where all of my friends & younger siblings are settling down and have families, and I'm still...here.

So, I've kinda been checking out the online dating sites, and I've met a few nice guys, but most of them are thousands of miles away and the conversations go good for a couple weeks and then I stop hearing from them. Which kinda hurts, but I can cope. There aren't a lot of guys from my area on the sites, or guys I meet IRL who are interested in a girl my size for anything beyond friendship. Through the years I've had a couple of guys get a little flirty, but I blew it off as joking around - after all the insults & such growing up, I guess I don't tend to trust people much.

Anyhow, I did meet a guy through one of the sites who lived about 3 hours away, and after talking online and by phone for a few weeks, I drove up to meet him for a date, with plans to spend the night at my sister-in-laws (about an hour away from his hometown.) I was really excited and slightly nervous, especially since it was my VERY FIRST first date with a non-gay man (Totally other story). After I arrived, we got in my car to go bowling, and within 2 minutes the guy was rubbing my leg and gazing at me, and my stomach was in knots so bad I thought I was going to be sick. I kind of panicked and grabbed his hand & held it through the rest of the ride, for lack of knowing what else to do. He asked a couple times if I was okay, and what was going on, and I told him I was freaking out a little, and needed to breathe a bit (He was aware of my "inexperience" - we'd discussed it before, since I didn't feel like it was fair to spring it on the poor guy in the middle of a date.) The rest of the ride seemed to go okay...until we got to the bowling alley and he tried to pull me in for a kiss, which I pulled away from and told him I wasn't ready for...During the date, we joked around, but I stayed mostly on the other side of the lane..then when we got back in the car, his hand immediately went to my lower thigh/knee area again, and I froze up...I couldn't talk to him or make eye contact at all...we'd planned to watch a movie at his place after bowling, but when he proceeded to try and kiss me again before we got out I broke down in tears, apologized a million times, and left for my sister-in-laws. I bawled pretty much the whole way there, and then again when I told my sister about it the next day (She's the only one I really talk to about any of the dating stuff). 

Ugh...sorry for the super-long post, I feel like I'm rambling so much, but I'm utterly confused. I mean, I know this guy was being a jerk, but I'm seriously worried about the fact that, at 28. I was so freaked out over the physical contact. Does this make me some kind of psych job? Am I going to react like this EVERY time a guy tries to kiss me? (Assuming I ever date again.) And what does it say about me that I thought this guy was so great? Am I going to end up falling for jerks just because they tell me I'm beautiful? 

So, I know that there are like 50 topics that could be tackled in this post, and I would gladly take advice/comments/lectures on any of it. I'm extremely interested in hearing what others have to say. Thanks in advance.


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## CastingPearls (Sep 20, 2011)

Okay I have a lot of thoughts on this and will probably get back to you on some but do NOT tell anyone online (you don't really know them until you meet them in person and get to know them in person) about your inexperience. A lot of men are to be perfectly blunt, looking for an easy lay and an inexperienced woman is the perfect target because you're not sure, you don't know what to expect, etc.

You don't OWE it to ANYONE that you should tell them outright how much experience you do or don't have. You need to take ownership of your own comfort-zones and boundaries and be cautious when talking to men online AND in person. There are nice guys online but there are a lot of dogs too and many of them just want to talk about sex, want to cyber (video cam) with you, and basically get their cheap thrills. When you express that you don't want to, they often lose interest and move on to the next victim. Try not to take it personally. I always say they make more room for better guys. 

Trust your own vibes and instincts and don't trust anyone you don't know, and when you do, do it in increments until they prove themselves trustworthy, ie; looking out for you, wanting to get to know you first, etc. This man continuously tried to touch you when you obviously were uncomfortable and should have stopped and stepped back. I would also recommend because you didn't know him at all and are nervous about your inexperience to NOT go to anyone's house. Also when you go out on a date for the first time, let a friend know where you are and keep your cell phone on all the time, at least until you date more and get a feel for what's going on. 

Another thing is that while I sexually experimented at a VERY young age, I didn't lose my virginity until I was in my twenties. Nothing wrong with earlier but I just didn't feel ready so you're not a psycho or crazy for feeling how you feel, you're not alone at all with having no experience at your age. I don't know if you're interested in casual sex (I'm going to assume no) or a relationship but make sure you and the guy get to know each other, and that you're comfortable and he's making an effort to make you comfortable.


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## FatAndProud (Sep 20, 2011)

Listen to what that fine lady said...

Also, if you ever want to double date with me, I will totally go with you  Welcome to Dimensions, fellow Michigander! Have no fear. This is a place to learn about yourself, gain confidence, and understand your feelings....WE HAVE ALL BEEN THERE!!!


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## Sydney Vicious (Sep 20, 2011)

1- Everything CastingPearls said.
2- Don't ever let some creep try to perv all over you, you're better than that : )

Maybe instead of telling people you're super inexperienced (as CP said, that makes you look like an easy target), just wait and see how the first date goes. If they pull in for a kiss, make them understand that your body is a temple and not just any schlub off the street can come in to worship.

3- Welcome to DIMS!! This place, along with many wonderful people, has helped me on my own journey into self love and acceptance. I'm very excited for you : )

...if I lived anywhere near Michigan, I'd totally take you out for a coffee/vent sesh... but alas, I'm on the west coast.


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## yoopergirl (Sep 20, 2011)

Thanks ladies...I know that part of the issue was me making dumb moves, and I DEFINITELY learned from that experience.

In regards to some of the advice (all of which I appreciate), I had my phone with me the whole time, and my sister had all his info just in case. We had also planned for me to call her at a specific time upon arriving at my sister-in-law's. As far as the inexperience issue, it 's difficult for me to know exactly how to handle questions that come up in conversation (turn-ons, etc.) without explaining WHY I have no idea how to respond. Even though I know I don't owe anyone an explanation, it's still awkward. And when I have explained, I've made sure to emphasize that casual sex is nothing I'd ever consider, so that's not even a possibility.

And the funny thing is that I'm generally overly cautious - I don't exchange phone numbers, I use a seperate e-mail address for people I don't know, etc. For some reason I let my guard down with "Justin" and see how that turned out...

And I appreciate the double date offer, but considering I'm about 9 hours from you, that might be a challenge...but if I ever am down in your area, I'll def. keep you in mind.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Sep 21, 2011)

CastingPearls gave excellent advice! Sydney Vicious is right as well..Give it time since you are new to the dating scene..Do not expect to meet Mr. Right right away..Some times you got meet a lot of toads to find the prince!


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## Emma (Sep 21, 2011)

I think he was trying to take advantage of the fact that you're inexperienced and thats just not fair. You _will not_ feel like this every time someone tries to kiss you.. Hell, I'd feel uncomfortable with all that touching when I hadn't really got to know someone and I am not inexperienced at all. It seems he didn't give you time to even work out if you liked him or not. Once you get to know someone and a bit of flirting has gone on you will start to want them to kiss you and when they finally do it will feel great. 

This guy pushed himself on you, this is not how normal people act. You've just been unlucky that the first guy you've gone on a date with is a creeper.


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## annabellethecat (Sep 21, 2011)

Welcome to Dimensions. Everything all the smart ladies before me have said and I wanted to add that I can totally relate to what you are going through. My first stabs at dating where awkward, humiliating, and made me feel like a freak. I allowed myself to be sexually used and abused because I felt "grateful" that any man would touch me. Please be very careful with internet dating because there are some real creeps and predators out there. Never ever go alone to his house or let him into your place. I thought I would never meet a man offline, but I did. He is very sweet, gentle, and loving and all that weirdness and awkwardness I used to have about being touched by a man is gone. I love it when he kisses me. So believe me, if someone like me could overcome that, you will too. You need to be gentle and patient with yourself. You are special and beautiful and deserve a loving gentleman. When you meet him your body will mind and body will know he is deserving of you.


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## yoopergirl (Sep 21, 2011)

Thanks for all the advice ladies, and feel free to keep it coming, I really appreciate it.

I figured I would respond & clarify a few things. I know now that a lot of the things that happened with "Justin" could have been avoided, and involved some dumb moves on my part- and no, I'm not taking all the blame, because he was being a creep - but I DID make sure my phone was on me at all times, and had made sure that my sister had his name, address, and phone number, just in case. We had also set an ETA for when I'd get to my sister-in-law's house, and if my sister hadn't heard from me withing 1/2 hour of that time she was to call me to check things out, and if unable to reach me, call my SIL (former ARMY and able to kick some major butt) and send her after me. (The night of the date I was too upset to explain, so I just told her things didn't go well.)

And the thing is, I'm generally so overly-cautious about not giving out my phone number (or calling them, because of caller ID) that even the nicest guys tend to get annoyed. I'm also careful about not sharing my last name or the name of the small town I live in, using a separate e-mail account for people I don't know, etc...but after a LOT of conversation with "Justin" over a few week period I let my guard down.

As far as the inexperience thing, I'm very grateful for the input, and I'll definitely keep it in mind from now on. It mostly tends to be put on the table when conversation leads to turn-ons and such, and I have a hard time knowing how to explain the I don't actually know WHAT I like/don't like, having never been in that situation. And when I have put it out there, I've always made sure to clarify that while I'm not necessarily waiting for my wedding night, I definitely don't see sex, or physical intimacy in general, as a throw-away thing, and that casual sex isn't something I'm interested in.



> Also, if you ever want to double date with me, I will totally go with you



Thanks for the offer...considering the fact that I live about 9 hours north of you, it might be a bit of a stretch, but if I ever need a partner-in-crime down your way I'll be sure to keep you in mind


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## Diana_Prince245 (Sep 21, 2011)

In addition to what all the other wonderful, smart ladies have said on this thread, I would suggest doing something less datey for first meetings-- like coffee. That way you can get a better idea of what they're like before you get in a car or other enclosed space with them. My first few Internet dates were awful, mostly because I didn't think to meet them in a non-datey situation first.

Good luck!


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## Jes (Sep 21, 2011)

Hi Yoop, welcome.

I'm going to give you some slightly different feedback than other women have given so far.

If you're looking to date, and you've talked to a guy on the phone for a few weeks, and gotten along, and part of your date is going back to his house at night to watch a movie...

then I'm not sure I think him touching your knee or trying to pull you in for a kiss is him being a 'jerk.' 

Obviously, you liked each other on the phone. You drove 3 hours to meet him. He felt chemistry with you (I don't know about you with him), and he wanted to show you that. 

I wasn't there, so I don't know how it went down, but please consider 2 things: this is what a lot of people, men and women, do when they want to show interest in someone. They get somewhat physical. It may be that you're so new to the game you don't realize that. If you're not into it, you're not into it, and I'm not suggesting you force yourself to be into it. Just take it for what it is: a normal and not necessarily inappropriate way a man shows interest in a woman. As you yourself said, it might be your nerves that got in the way, here. 

The other thing to remember is that, ESPECIALLY if the above happens to be true, you can't assume all guys are 'jerks' just because you had one date with a guy that you didn't enjoy. It's hard not to feel that; I've struggled with the same thing, but you're only hurting yourself and your chances if you shut down based on 1 encounter.

I agree with the poster who said that you shouldn't ever go to someone's house before you know the person well. I'd argue that most people who suggest this OR say yes to this may well be hinting at getting physical (and again, there's nothing wrong with that if you want it). Don't want to hint at that? Don't go anyplace with a bed. 

And before anyone gets butthurt and thinks I'm blaming Yoop or suggesting she have a 1-night stand or any other ridiculous thing like that: I'M NOT.

Yoop: congratulate yourself for starting this process. Good for you. You haven't broken anything, you haven't ruined anything. You can learn from this and perfect your swagger.


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## LovelyLiz (Sep 21, 2011)

Yes - good advice all around. Saying that you like to take things slow and get to know each other is a super fair boundary to have, and it will help cut out the MANY guys on the internet that aren't really looking for anything more than casual sex (which it's clear you are not looking for). 

And to reiterate, even though you seem to mostly be convinced that it was really inappropriate for that guy to touch you so quickly, I will just express total agreement with you on that. He was a STRANGER, and he was touching your leg and kissing you? He's the one with the issue, sister, not you. Don't let your mind play tricks on you telling you that you have some fear of physical affection and whatnot. He was being totally inappropriate and disrespectful. 

One other thing - I know you said there aren't a lot of guys in your area interested in anything beyond friendship with a woman your size, and I know first-hand what a painful feeling that can be. But I don't know if you were saying whether or not you have some straight male friends you hang out with? It can be hard if feelings develop on your end, and they aren't interested back (a scenario I have oft experienced), but if that isn't too painful, I think developing friendships with straight men who really think you're awesome can be a great way to get some of that affirmation that you need. It can be good just in terms of relating to men, realizing your value, etc., and can also give you some of the strength to continue to slog through the tons of non-matches from internet dating sites. Be around a man, even as friends, who treats you well. It helps, I think.

And totally take F&P up on her offer for a double date! SWEET!


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## yoopergirl (Sep 21, 2011)

Sorry, I didn't mean to post the same basic response twice. Until a more experienced DIM member filled me in on things,I didn't realize that there was a delay for new users, and assumed that the response I wrote last night was lost because my phone likes to be evil on a regular basis and delete things.


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## yoopergirl (Sep 21, 2011)

Diana_Prince245 said:


> In addition to what all the other wonderful, smart ladies have said on this thread, I would suggest doing something less datey for first meetings-- like coffee. That way you can get a better idea of what they're like before you get in a car or other enclosed space with them. My first few Internet dates were awful, mostly because I didn't think to meet them in a non-datey situation first.
> 
> Good luck!



In general, this is what I would have preferred. However, due to the fact that he lived 3 hours from me in an unfamiliar, small town, our options were quite limited. In general, unless you live in one of the bigger towns in the U.P., there aren't a lot of lets-just-walk-over-from-here options...and he didn't have a vehicle, which is why I picked him up, rather than meeting at the bowling alley. Looking back, I should've told him that if I could haul my cookies 3 hours one-way for a date, he could find a way to meet me somewhere. But hindsight is 20/20.


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 23, 2011)

Internet dating is tricky. It can be a good way to meet guys; I've met quite a few that way, but, it's also a breeding ground for creeps. It's good that you're being careful about not giving out personal information about yourself. I have to echo what everyone else said about not going back to anyone's house though. Also, generally speaking, if someone is mentioning you going back to their house after a date, they're trying to sleep with you. In my experience guys who try to do this on the first or second date are solely looking for casual sex. Just something to keep in mind.


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## bigmac (Sep 23, 2011)

Yooper, hope you don't mind a comment from a guy. I'm thinking you'll do just fine and you're definitely not crazy. Seems like you have good instincts -- you talked to the guy -- made a date -- it didn't workout (most first dates don't) -- you moved on. You've got the dating thing down on the first try. I've known several inexperienced ladies who fell for creeps -- never ends well -- you avoided that trap.

Regarding internet and distance dating. If you live in a small dating pool its almost a necessity. One word of caution -- distance dating cost $$$!!!!. So you might want to politely inquire about a potential date's finances before you enter a distance dating thing. Also, it can be very hard to convert a two city couple into a one city couple (I've been married for almost 4 years and I'm still spending about $800 a month driving back and forth).


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## yoopergirl (Sep 23, 2011)

To all the ladies that have posted the last couple days - I am paying attention, and thank you again for the advice/input.


BigMac, I don't mind, and thanks.

I understand that internet dating involves a lot of additional complications, and I'm sure that beyond the obvious ones like distance, expenses, etc. there are a number of smaller issues that I'm not aware of at the moment, but given the limited dating selection & my lack of interest in the typical yooper guy's "lets drink/drive fast/kill things" interest categories, I figure it's worth a shot.

And I can't imagine the amount of mileage you've got built up with that kind of traveling expense going on, but if you've been willing to do it for (at least) 4 years, then you're obviously very much in love, so congrats on that.


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 23, 2011)

If you're thinking about long distance dating, even if its a few hours, I really recommend picking someone who has a vehicle (only mentioning this because you said this guy didn't.) Long term it'd be really frustrating for you to do have to do all the driving. When I was 18 I dated someone for about 8 months who lived about an hour and a half from me; he didn't have a car. It got old reallllllllllly quick because I was the one having to do all the driving and paying for the gas. I think it was part of the reason I eventually broke it off with him, it was just too frustrating. I'm also just not a long distance dating type of person though.


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## Shan34 (Sep 24, 2011)

Everybody here has expressed very well what I was thinking while reading your post. I just have to give you props for remaining true to yourself in very awkward and uncomfortable moments. You should feel proud of yourself for that and I'm giving you a virtual pat on the back


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## olwen (Sep 25, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> Okay I have a lot of thoughts on this and will probably get back to you on some but do NOT tell anyone online (you don't really know them until you meet them in person and get to know them in person) about your inexperience. A lot of men are to be perfectly blunt, looking for an easy lay and an inexperienced woman is the perfect target because you're not sure, you don't know what to expect, etc.
> 
> You don't OWE it to ANYONE that you should tell them outright how much experience you do or don't have. You need to take ownership of your own comfort-zones and boundaries and be cautious when talking to men online AND in person. There are nice guys online but there are a lot of dogs too and many of them just want to talk about sex, want to cyber (video cam) with you, and basically get their cheap thrills. When you express that you don't want to, they often lose interest and move on to the next victim. Try not to take it personally. I always say they make more room for better guys.
> 
> ...



This is a great response! And I'll add that if he asks when you last long term relationship was you can say honestly, you haven't had one because you haven't found the right guy, which is true. You don't have to offer any other explanation besides that. 

You have every right to set boundaries that he has to respect and if he can't he's not worthy.


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## bettylulu (Sep 25, 2011)

You have gotten some fabulous advice so far. The only thing I can think of to add (and it might have already been mentioned) is to steer clear of conversations about turn-ons. Maybe I am just old-fashioned, but that seems like an intimate topic for a getting to know you conversation.


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## olwen (Sep 25, 2011)

yoopergirl said:


> Thanks for all the advice ladies, and feel free to keep it coming, I really appreciate it.
> 
> I figured I would respond & clarify a few things. I know now that a lot of the things that happened with "Justin" could have been avoided, and involved some dumb moves on my part- and no, I'm not taking all the blame, because he was being a creep - but I DID make sure my phone was on me at all times, and had made sure that my sister had his name, address, and phone number, just in case. We had also set an ETA for when I'd get to my sister-in-law's house, and if my sister hadn't heard from me withing 1/2 hour of that time she was to call me to check things out, and if unable to reach me, call my SIL (former ARMY and able to kick some major butt) and send her after me. (The night of the date I was too upset to explain, so I just told her things didn't go well.)
> 
> ...



Again, as for the turn on/turn off questions...seems to me like those kinds of questions don't need to be asked until much much much later. You can just say you aren't comfortable talking about that until you get to know him much better. Or you can say you are open and curious about a lot of things in the context of a committed relationship and just leave it at that. One of the things the millionaire matchmaker says that I actually agree with is no sex until you are in a committed relationship. If a guy can't agree to wait until then, we clearly don't want the same things and it's best to move on.


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## olwen (Sep 25, 2011)

bettylulu said:


> You have gotten some fabulous advice so far. The only thing I can think of to add (and it might have already been mentioned) is to steer clear of conversations about turn-ons. Maybe I am just old-fashioned, but that seems like an intimate topic for a getting to know you conversation.



We must have posted at the same time. I'm in agreement with you about the turn-ons, especially after having learned the hard way that it's probably a conversation best saved for when you know things are def going in that direction and you are ready for it.


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## CastingPearls (Sep 25, 2011)

I considered addressing the 'turn-on' thing in my initial post but decided not to reply because there are many women who have no problem with discussing any number of things that I would consider too intimate for someone I hadn't met in RL AND had also grown to know. TO ME, and only speaking for myself, turn-ons, sexual experience and intimate talk are after you've known someone and have some kind of connection. Can that be online? Of course! And it has happened to me but I'd like to think that some experience has enabled me to make more sound decisions and also listen to that inner voice that says..uh-uh...nope..red flag. The OP has stated clearly though that she has no experience at all, so while another could correctly say, that's an appropriate action for someone who likes you, by the same token I could say, no...no it isn't especially since THE FIRST TWO TIMES she responded so strongly. Again, I will maintain that a man who is interested in someone will make sure she is comfortable and as a woman, you owe it to yourself to feel comfortable in any situation. When you're better able to distinguish between those nervous butterflies and sirens going off in your head, then take a chance. 

Also, another personal thing for me that may not apply to others although thatgirl08 did mention it: The OP did all the 'work' in meeting for the first time. Nothing wrong with not having a car but to drive a long distance to meet someone for the first time, even if you did have someone to fall back on nearby, and especially with no experience, AND him knowing that, can set you up for danger. Except for talk, which is cheap and is called bullshit in my circles, unless a man acts, then assume that he isn't invested and then decide if you should be as invested as you already are. If a guy thinks you're worth anything, he will make an effort and if he doesn't, then he isn't worth your effort and you MUST believe in yourself enough to believe that. 

This isn't coming from some high and mighty place of superiority. This is coming from someone who's been there, done that, and bought the snow globe. You're worth far more than you realize and unless you believe that, you're a walking talking vulnerable target to predators. Being nice to you, telling you you're beautiful --these things do feel wonderful, so enjoy them, but also know that talk is cheap and that may be all there is to it and doesn't necessarily earn them any rewards or gratitude. He won't be the last man to say or think that you're beautiful. Trust me on that.


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 25, 2011)

I agree that a guy who attempts to kiss you or show sexual interest on the first date isn't necessarily a jerk, but anyone with a shred of perception would have immediately understood by your non-verbal cues that you weren't even close to ready for that. The fact that he continued to try pushing you *is* what makes him an unremitting pig, Yooper. Please don't blame yourself for what happened. 

When you meet someone who cares about more than "getting some" no matter what the emotional cost to you, and he's willing to take his time with you, believe me ... you'll want to go there with him.


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## LovelyLiz (Sep 26, 2011)

After thinking about it more, I also agree that someone showing physical interest on the first date isn't *necessarily* a creepy guy. However, I do think that especially with online dating, in my experience, guys who come on strong with the physical right away tend to be looking primarily for a physical connection and not a more committed relationship. But, YMMV.

The key as TJ said above is how you're feeling about the situation, whether he's respecting your cues (especially those you state or make obvious), and *how* he goes about making his physical attraction known. It can be hard to find your voice in these situations, but deserve props for not doing something you didn't feel comfortable with. That's a real win in this situation that is worth feeling proud of.


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## yoopergirl (Sep 26, 2011)

After reading all of your responses carefully (and repeatedly), and seeing a number of you posting about the physical contact issues and the guy being a jerk, I guess I'd like to explain my comment there. 

Yes, I understand that some people are more comfortable with physical contact, and no, that doesn't necessarily make them jerks, or creeps, or whatnot. But after replaying the scenario in my head way too many times, this is what it boiled down to for me:

Yes, we had talked quite a bit, and were comfortable with each other on the phone and online. But this was our first time actually meeting in person. So to me, it was still kind of a "blind date" scenario. If you were on a blind date, would it be appropriate to get in the car, buckle your seatbelt, and almost immediately start rubbing the other person's leg? For that matter, would you act that way with someone you HAD met before (a co-worker, classmate, etc.) that you were going out with for the first time? I may be inexperienced, but I'm thinking that's not typical first-date behavior. And the kissing thing was a little more involved than the "lean in for a kiss" that I mentioned, but I'm not going to go into all that, because (despite how this post may come across) I'm actually not trying to amp up the drama factor.

I just wanted to make it clear that, despite my opinion of this particular guy as a creep, I'm not judging people who are more comfortable with physical contact than myself.


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## CastingPearls (Sep 26, 2011)

To me, it doesn't matter what everyone else thinks. If YOU were uncomfortable and overwhelmed, (and you explained your reaction pretty clearly) then he should have stopped. 

Look, I've been in a situation where I went on a date with a man who worked at the same company with me, but I didn't really know. The moment we were in traffic, he began to run his hand up and down my thigh and I told him to stop, that it was making me uncomfortable. He laughed and said I was a prude (lol hardly--I'm very comfortable with physical contact with someone I trust.) stopped for a few minutes, then tried again. I was stuck in an SUV on some expressway in NYC and couldn't jump out of the car without killing myself, and I kept pushing him away while he laughed the whole time thinking it was funny. Finally I grabbed his hand and bent his fingers back until he screamed and as soon as we got to our destination, I found a ride home and left. 

There is no timetable for when or how comfortable you're supposed to feel. The guy I was dealing with was a jerk but it's true not all men are jerks. My impression of the guy you were with is that he IS a jerk and you did NOTHING wrong nor did you deserve any disrespect. Trust your instincts and don't apologize for them, ever.


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## TexasTrouble (Sep 26, 2011)

As someone who jokingly refers to myself as "woefully inexperienced," I get where you're coming from, especially the inclination to want to explain so other people don't get uncomfortable or think you're "weird." 

But I think sometimes the phrase "Never apologize, never explain," is a good one. You don't owe anyone an explanation when they keep crossing boundaries that you have been clear about. That makes their problem (they don't respect boundaries) your problem (feeling you have to justify why you set a certain boundary) and you don't deserve that. 

*I'm not saying in relationships you don't discuss things and why you feel a certain way, but with someone you just met, if they're already crossing a line, why continue?


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## olwen (Sep 26, 2011)

yoopergirl said:


> After reading all of your responses carefully (and repeatedly), and seeing a number of you posting about the physical contact issues and the guy being a jerk, I guess I'd like to explain my comment there.
> 
> Yes, I understand that some people are more comfortable with physical contact, and no, that doesn't necessarily make them jerks, or creeps, or whatnot. But after replaying the scenario in my head way too many times, this is what it boiled down to for me:
> 
> ...



As far as I'm concerned if at any time with any person (no matter how well you do or don't know them) you say stop, they should stop. Period. Every man you go on dates with should respect your boundaries, and sure he may have boundaries too, but my feeling is that since as a woman I have more to lose and to also have more of a danger factor there, my boundaries should come first. That's just me tho. 

I have a thing about rules on dates too. I want to know what they are and what's expected of me and what I should expect from him and just what the boundaries are in general when on a date. The thing is tho, there really aren't any hard and fast rules that everyone knows. It's whatever your level of comfort is. Some people wait till the third date, some people don't. Some people wait till marriage. Whatever. You figure it out as you go along. Really, don't sweat it too much.


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## lozonloz (Sep 29, 2011)

Don't worry about the freak out thing, at 23 I'm just as inexperienced physically (although in fairness I have dated/flirted with a few people) and just as jumpy when people touch me (the number of times I've jumped a million miles when someone tried to hold my hand I have lost count of).

In fact, the numero uno reason I am not dating anyone right now is that I cant deal with people touching me till I get used to them. And getting used to them takes awhile.

I'm working on a principle of dating/flirting with people at a level I'm comfortable with, and being assertive about when I feel uncomfortable. I have accepted the fact that anyone who wants to be with me is going to have to be patient enough to take the physical side slowly, and I'm upfront about that. If someone that's interested in me cant deal with taking things at my pace, then we aren't going to work.

It's not because I think my needs are more important than theirs, because I'm trying to play games and test their commitment, or because I'm saving myself, or because I'm a prude who hates sex. It's because if they touch me before I'm ready for it I will freak the fuck out, try and knee them in the groin and have a panic attack. It's a reaction I have very little control over.

And I refuse to feel guilty about it.

The point I'm trying to make here, is that if you want to go slow, go slow, and say you need to go slow. If the guy cant respect these bounderies, then you need to find another guy, because you shouldn't have to put yourself in a situation that makes you uncomfortable to meet someone. Be proactive about dating, but also be upfront about who you are and what you need from a guy.


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