# Two People, One Body



## olwen (Oct 10, 2008)

I'm beginning to think that one common thing that we all share, fat people and FA's alike is that when it comes to fatness, we may often feel as though there is always something missing. 

If you are fat, do you wonder what you would gain by being thin? Do you ask yourself if you are denying yourself something vital by being fat? If you've been thin and became fat, do you mourn your former self? If you have always been fat, do you long for a level acceptance and overall ease you think you'd get if you were thin? Do you identify as a fat person before all else, seeing all you are thru a fat lens or do you see your primary self as someone other than a fat person? Do you think your fat is irrelevant to who you are as a person; do you just choose to not see thru that lens no matter what? If you want to gain, do you feel that you are missing something no matter what size you are? If you loose weight (either for health or for vanity or both), do you ever feel guilty for rejecting your fatter self? Do you feel like a traitor to the cause (assuming you believe in the SA cause)? Is this an affirmation of the negative things society at large thinks about fat people? If you always identified as a fat person, then just who do you become after significant weight loss? 

If you are an FA, do you identify yourself by the fat you love? Do you feel as tho your partner's fat is so much a part of who you are that it feel's like your own? Do you feel like part of yourself dies when your partners decides to reject/loose their fat? If so, are you able to express that loss in a way that doesn't make you feel like you are the worst person in the world? If you want your partner to gain can you express that in a way that doesn't make you feel like the worst person in the world? Do you ever feel like you have to choose between your fat identity and your partner's fat identity? Do you feel like you are responsible for what they think they are missing? ARE they missing something? Are YOU? Do you feel awful for wanting to hold onto it? Do you stay or do you go? 

In all cases, are we all torn between the people we think we should be and the people we actually are? Are we ever truly comfortable with fat whether we wear it or not? Truly? Is it really and truly possible to be fat/love fat and be completely satisfied? Is it unrealistic to expect satisfaction? 

ARE we missing something?

Are all these questions irrelevant? Am I overthinking all this stuff? Asking too many questions at once? Do any of these questions even make sense? Is this even stuff we want to talk about or has it all been talked about to death? 

What do you think?


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## Ruffie (Oct 10, 2008)

olwen said:


> I'm beginning to think that one common thing that we all share, fat people and FA's alike is that when it comes to fatness, we may often feel as though there is always something missing.
> _I am just going to answer the questions that applied to me. Here we go:_
> 
> If you are fat, do you wonder what you would gain by being thin?
> ...


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## Santaclear (Oct 10, 2008)

I think these are all good and interesting questions, Olwen, but my immediate reaction is that most of these are HUMAN questions, not only fat or FA questions. 

Who _doesn't_ feel as if they might be "missing" something sometimes, maybe often if they're sad? Who can experience everything they might ever want to? Who can be said to have truly reached all their potential? It all depends on which color glasses you're looking through.

As an FA, I can state I'm not missing a thing. I do understand those who feel they're missing out because of size-related issues like challenged mobility, not fitting into chairs in public places, social prejudice etc.


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## steely (Oct 10, 2008)

I used to think that I could be totally changed just by being thinner.I now believe that not to be true.I'm the same ball of craziness fat or thin.I've struggled most of my life with the fat issue because I never had anyone who was supportive but just didn't care,either.
Mostly I just want(wanted)to be accepted for who I am.Warts and all.I think of all the energy I've expended in this struggle with myself.I could've moved mountains.Who's to say they never move.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm tired.If I'm not "good enough" the way I am,then I'll just have to live with it.Be the person I am and let the rest be.


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## olwen (Oct 10, 2008)

Ruffie, Santa, thanks for your answers. 

These questions have just all been on my mind a lot lately. I've always identified as a fat person first. Hanging out around these parts has taught me that other fat people haven't and it was kind of hard for me to wrap my brain around that. I just always wondered, How can they not? Anyway, I'm starting to realize that there is more to me than just fat. I think maybe I've spent so much time being fat that I probably haven't focused on the other parts of myself. I just wondered if others have gone thru a similar process. I'm also starting to wonder about how (deeply) FA's identify with fat too. I wonder what the nature of that identity is, if it exists....

And Santa, you are right...the larger question of contentment IS a human question, but it often seems woefully out of reach when fat is involved, whether you're the fat person or the fat lover or both....I'm sure I would wonder about my level of contenment if I were thin, as my thin friends do. The pursuit of happiness just seems....more fraught with obstacles and barriers when fatness is involved. Sometimes that seems like an absurd fallacy and sometimes it seems very stark and heavy (no pun intended). It's times like this, I'm not sure what to make of it all or where it *should* belong in the grand scheme of things...


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## olwen (Oct 10, 2008)

steely said:


> I used to think that I could be totally changed just by being thinner.I now believe that not to be true.I'm the same ball of craziness fat or thin.I've struggled most of my life with the fat issue because I never had anyone who was supportive but just didn't care,either.
> Mostly I just want(wanted)to be accepted for who I am.Warts and all.I think of all the energy I've expended in this struggle with myself.I could've moved mountains.Who's to say they never move.
> I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm tired.If I'm not "good enough" the way I am,then I'll just have to live with it.Be the person I am and let the rest be.



How did you think you'd be changed?


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## steely (Oct 10, 2008)

That I'd be more accepted.This is a family issue so it goes very deep.Being the only fat kid in my family I was mercilessly judged and treated differently than my siblings.I thought if I was thin,I would be pretty and people would have reacted differently towards me.

I was wrong.Sometime around the 9th grade I got a report back from a teacher who had written on it "I wish I had the bubbly,sparkling personality that you do."You could have knocked me over with a feather.I was being myself,it didn't matter that I weighed 250lbs.It wouldn't have mattered if I'd weighed 120lbs.It was me that came through.

It's not been all sunshine since that day.It's a tough world out there for anyone who is different but the older I get I am less harsh with myself.I try to be more giving to others which is very difficult at times.I try to remember that like attracts like.I am what I am and thats all that I am.You can eat yourself alive wondering woulda,coulda,shoulda.I don't want that in my life.

Baby,I ain't missing a thing.


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## Chimpi (Oct 11, 2008)

*If you are fat, do you wonder what you would gain by being thin?*
Yes, I have and do wonder what advantages I would have were I thinner than I am now. However I try not to think about those advantages too much as I would rather be the best I can be with what I have _now_ rather than what I would have as someone completely different.
*Do you ask yourself if you are denying yourself something vital by being fat?*
Nope. There are two major paths I could and still can take in my life; one is to live freely and indulge in the things I really want to indulge in, and the second is to live with discipline, dedicating myself to something that I have always wanted to dedicate my entire being to. Though there is always something you can do to improve yourself.
*If you've been thin and became fat, do you mourn your former self?*
I have been much thinner before and I do not mourn for that.
*If you have always been fat, do you long for a level acceptance and overall ease you think you'd get if you were thin?*
Through my eyes, there are so many aspects of life that desire more acceptance. Personally, myself being fat is not at the top of the list, but fat acceptance and size acceptance are still very high on the list. Also, I do not long for more ease to my life. I wish to mold my life around who I am _now_.
*Do you identify as a fat person before all else, seeing all you are thru a fat lens or do you see your primary self as someone other than a fat person?*
I am a fat person. I know how to be a fat person. I identify myself as someone whom happens to be fat rather than a fat person whom happens to be [insert adjective here]. However, it is a large portion of who I am.
*Do you think your fat is irrelevant to who you are as a person; do you just choose to not see thru that lens no matter what?*
I think my fat is very relevant to who I am. I hope to always identify with that aspect of myself. I find that I am a much more understanding and accepting person because I am fat; I feel I can concentrate more on my personality than on physical portrayals. I cannot help what other people choose to see.
*If you want to gain, do you feel that you are missing something no matter what size you are?*
I am not an active gainer, so that does not apply to me. I do not have a void I wish to fill in the aspect of weight gain.
*If you loose weight (either for health or for vanity or both), do you ever feel guilty for rejecting your fatter self?*
Yes, but not in the sense of the question you have worded here. I do not reject "fat Justin." I embrace a "thinner Justin" and, more importantly, I'll always be "fat Justin" on the inside.
*Do you feel like a traitor to the cause (assuming you believe in the SA cause)?*
Not at all. You do not have to be fat to fight for the size acceptance or fat acceptance cause.
*Is this an affirmation of the negative things society at large thinks about fat people?*
Possibly. The way I see it, rather than feeling guilty or sad about who you are, try and create an environment for yourself where you embrace / accept who you are (inside and out). Try not to live for a different you. I think it's quite counter-productive to focus on the negative aspects of being fat rather than the positive aspects (for each specific individual) of being fat; concentrate on what things you wish to improve.
*If you always identified as a fat person, then just who do you become after significant weight loss?*
A thinner self; a changed physical self waiting to accept whom you are yet again in different ways than before. Plus it's also _very_ respective to the individual.


*If you are an FA, do you identify yourself by the fat you love?*
Absolutely.
*Do you feel as tho your partner's fat is so much a part of who you are that it feel's like your own?*
Selfishly, yes, but not so much in the frame of mine that her fat is a part of me. Her fat body helps define the course of _our_ lives and what aspects of each other we can concentrate on being happy with. It does not feel like my own fat, but it can consume you to the point that it's almost like losing yourself when it starts to wither away. It can be an incredibly stressful situation for an unfocused mind.
*Do you feel like part of yourself dies when your partners decides to reject/loose their fat?*
Not "dies," but yes it can open up a void. Being a "fat admirer" allows me to truly sympathize with the beauty that I see in a fat woman (or fat person in general). The look and feel of it is extremely satisfying and pleasurable, and very, _very_ pleasing to the eye (sexually and personified in beauty; extremely enhanced beauty, amplified exponentially). When you start to take away those features that fat tends to expose on a woman (or man), it's like negatively adding to the equation. You're working backwards rather than forwards. *Sigh* It's so hard to explain; you can only feel it.
*If so, are you able to express that loss in a way that doesn't make you feel like you are the worst person in the world?*
I do not feel like I am the worst person in the world because it sucks to see a fat person slim down. It's who I am and I accept who I am. It can really suck when you are in a relationship with that person, but then you're migrating into aspects of a relationship that need to be worked out between those specific individuals. It just really sucks. It's as if you were watching the Grand Canyon evaporate into a giant, open flat of sand. There's usually not a lot pleasing to the eye of an area of land of flat sand (unless you're a person that finds flat areas of sand pleasing to the eye  ), but the difference is quite exasperating.
*If you want your partner to gain can you express that in a way that doesn't make you feel like the worst person in the world?*
Again, I do not feel like the worst person in the world because I would want my partner to gain weight. I usually equate fat to beauty. Not always, but usually the amount of fat a woman has can accumulate in degrees of beauty. The more fat she has the more beautiful she is; the more beautiful she is the fatter she is. Again, not always, but that's the best way I can express it. I do not think there's anything wrong with wanting to find your person more and more beautiful (though, in this case, she definitely has to be the majority of the consensus). 
*Do you ever feel like you have to choose between your fat identity and your partner's fat identity?*
The way I view relationships is quite simplistic: the two parties = one single whole. I do not think you have to choose as individuals. When we're together, we're both the fat parties, or simply just the couple. "The sum is greater than the parts."
*Do you feel like you are responsible for what they think they are missing?*
That's a very tough question. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. On a very barbaric level, it's her responsibility that she has gained weight, or is simply just fat. If she has some issues to work out because she is fat then it is her responsibility to improve what she wants. On another level, it is partly my responsibility because she may have been so into me - so into "us" - that she gained weight to please me - "us" - more. If that is the case then I feel like a demon for contributing to something that she quite possibly did not want to do at all (and only did to hold me in the relationship longer). However, at the same time she should know that it's not about the accumulated fat that holds together a partnership; it's everything together, in a combined effort that contributes to the greater cause of "us."
If she is "missing" something by being fat, then it is ultimately up to her to go after what _she_ wants. I do not believe that it is about the potential in a relationship, it's about who they are _now_. And, as a duo, it's up to both parties to determine how each individual life will improve and how it will improve the partnership itself.
*ARE they missing something?*
That is not a universal question. Each person you ask will give you a different answer.
*Are YOU?*
Personally, the only thing I am missing right now will relate more to being a "fat admirer" than anything - I am missing a fat woman that takes pleasure (of any kind) in being fat and enjoys looking at the positives of being fat.
*Do you feel awful for wanting to hold onto it?*
I am unsure what your question is referring to? Do I feel awful for wanting to hold onto my partners fat? Yes, I have felt awful for that before and I think I would still feel awful for that. On a rudimentary relationship level, I do not think it's good to hope for what you have had or could have.
*Do you stay or do you go? *
That's completely respective to each person and the situation(s). There's never a universal answer for that.

*In all cases, are we all torn between the people we think we should be and the people we actually are?*
I think that is an extremely well-practiced frame of mind. I do not agree with it and I have found so many issues with it (though it's only human to analyze, regret and hope).
*Are we ever truly comfortable with fat whether we wear it or not?* 
Only you, as an individual can answer that. I am not truly comfortable yet, but I hope to be there sooner than later.
*Truly?*
Anything is possible. It all depends on what _you_ want for yourself.
*Is it really and truly possible to be fat/love fat and be completely satisfied?*
I think that's the same question as "are we ever truly comfortable with fat whether we wear it or not," only worded differently. See that answer.
*Is it unrealistic to expect satisfaction?* 
I do not think so. I believe it is a distinct human right to love who you are and be accepted. It's only fair.


*ARE we missing something?*
Again, it's respective to each individual.
I, personally feel that humanity has so many boundaries to break down. Accepting fat and being comfortable with a fat person (or being a fat person) happen to be a part of those boundaries.


*Are all these questions irrelevant?*
Only you can answer that for yourself.
*Am I overthinking all this stuff?*
Only you can determine that for yourself.
*Asking too many questions at once?*
Learning is the greatest conquest a person can undertake.
*Do any of these questions even make sense?*
Most of them do.
*Is this even stuff we want to talk about or has it all been talked about to death?*
It doesn't matter. One thing I always teach the employees I have to train (and have been told by many of my past teachers) is 'if there's something you want to know then all you have to do is ask.'

*What do you think?*
I think the world of fat acceptance and size acceptance has so far to go, but it's ever improving through these sorts of questions and individual analysis.


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## olwen (Oct 11, 2008)

steely said:


> That I'd be more accepted.This is a family issue so it goes very deep.Being the only fat kid in my family I was mercilessly judged and treated differently than my siblings.I thought if I was thin,I would be pretty and people would have reacted differently towards me.
> 
> I was wrong.Sometime around the 9th grade I got a report back from a teacher who had written on it "I wish I had the bubbly,sparkling personality that you do."You could have knocked me over with a feather.I was being myself,it didn't matter that I weighed 250lbs.It wouldn't have mattered if I'd weighed 120lbs.It was me that came through.
> 
> ...



Your answer is interesting to me. Fatness just seems like such a defining force....yet here you say you'd be the same with or without it....gives me something to think about.


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## steely (Oct 11, 2008)

It is a defining force but it's not the only thing that defines me.I used to feel one way and now I feel another but I'm still the same.I haven't changed what I like,I haven't changed all the things that make me,me.I'm just letting it be.I know most people say just let it go but it's easier to just let it be.Don't stress,don't worry,just be.In my case,be fat.

This may make no sense,it is very late and I'm not at my best explaining things even in daylight.


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## olwen (Oct 11, 2008)

Thank for you answers Chimpi. Diplomaitc as always. After seeing all the questions lined up like that - yeowsh - there were a lot of questions. LOL. I'm not looking for universal answers tho....individual ones are good. I think it would be interesting (to me anyway) to see how people answer them.

I forgot to answer them myself:

If you are fat, do you wonder what you would gain by being thin? 
I used to think that life would just be better in a vague sort of way. But specifically, I thought I'd get more sexual attention since it was what I wanted most, but I've learned that kind of attention definitely isn't specific to thin folks.

Do you ask yourself if you are denying yourself something vital by being fat?
I used to think this, and it made me angry, but I don't think this so much anymore.

If you've been thin and became fat, do you mourn your former self? 
I've never been *thin.* I honestly don't know if I would if I ever had been. 

If you have always been fat, do you long for a level acceptance and overall ease you think you'd get if you were thin? Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. But then I think the keyword here is Ease. It's relative.

Do you identify as a fat person before all else, seeing all you are thru a fat lens or do you see your primary self as someone other than a fat person? 
I already answered this, but I always identified as a fat person before being a woman or being black or american or anything like that. But now they're all starting to blend together in a way that makes me think I should focus on being something other than fat.

Do you think your fat is irrelevant to who you are as a person; do you just choose to not see thru that lens no matter what? That would have been a foreign concept to me two or three years ago, as there was never not a lens.

If you want to gain, do you feel that you are missing something no matter what size you are? I don't want to gain.

If you loose weight (either for health or for vanity or both), do you ever feel guilty for rejecting your fatter self? Do you feel like a traitor to the cause (assuming you believe in the SA cause)? Is this an affirmation of the negative things society at large thinks about fat people? ...yes...maybe...Chimpi, I liked your answer for this question. After reading it, I'm gonna go with that. It's honestly something I keep forgetting. 

If you always identified as a fat person, then just who do you become after significant weight loss? I've changed quite a bit since I've lost weight and tho I'm still fat, it's been a couple years and it's just now hitting me that I'm not the same, but I'm not *thin* either so who knows what I'd be like if I were to loose more. I just can't answer this one.

If you are an FA, do you identify yourself by the fat you love? Do you feel as tho your partner's fat is so much a part of who you are that it feel's like your own? Do you feel like part of yourself dies when your partners decides to reject/loose their fat? If so, are you able to express that loss in a way that doesn't make you feel like you are the worst person in the world? If you want your partner to gain can you express that in a way that doesn't make you feel like the worst person in the world? Do you ever feel like you have to choose between your fat identity and your partner's fat identity? Do you feel like you are responsible for what they think they are missing? ARE they missing something? Are YOU? Do you feel awful for wanting to hold onto it? Do you stay or do you go?

In all cases, are we all torn between the people we think we should be and the people we actually are? I guess it will be different for everyone. I don't think I'm torn. Who I am now is who I am now...

Are we ever truly comfortable with fat whether we wear it or not? Truly? 
I used to think I was comfortable, but I don't think I was as comfortable as I thought. I'm comfortable now, but I do wonder if I'd say something different if I were smaller. 

Is it really and truly possible to be fat/love fat and be completely satisfied? The law of averages....it must be.

Is it unrealistic to expect satisfaction? Depends on how much satisfaction one expects and how one expects to obtain it. Perhaps the question was unrealistic...

ARE we missing something? Oh god, why did I ask such banal and esoteric questions.....the answer depends on the person. I think I wouldn't know the valuable things I do know if I weren't fat and that knowledge is worth enough to endure a lot of the things I did all over again if I had to do so. That being said, I do sometimes feel like I'm missing some things...feelings of belonging mostly. Sometimes I just want to blend in, but I know that if I did blend in easily I'd complain about not being unique. So yes and no.

Are all these questions irrelevant? Irrelevant, no. Banal perhaps.

Am I overthinking all this stuff? Probably.

Asking too many questions at once? ...uhm...

Do any of these questions even make sense? To me they do. 

Is this even stuff we want to talk about or has it all been talked about to death? Dunno. That's why I asked.

What do you think? I think sometimes I should think less.


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## olwen (Oct 11, 2008)

steely said:


> It is a defining force but it's not the only thing that defines me.I used to feel one way and now I feel another but I'm still the same.I haven't changed what I like,I haven't changed all the things that make me,me.I'm just letting it be.I know most people say just let it go but it's easier to just let it be.Don't stress,don't worry,just be.In my case,be fat.
> 
> This may make no sense,it is very late and I'm not at my best explaining things even in daylight.



It makes sense.


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## littlefairywren (Oct 11, 2008)

Olwen, some of your questions really struck a chord. I'm not always very good at expressing my thoughts but here goes -


If you are fat, do you wonder what you would gain by being thin?

*Every now and then I have thought about how it might have effected my life if I had been thin -I have always had a weight issue. Would I have had had more success, happiness, contentment etc.*

If you have always been fat, do you long for a level acceptance and overall ease you think you'd get if you were thin?

*Yes, it would make certain things and situations easier I think. Although on my bolshie days I just think F$$k it, if they don't like it they can get stuffed!*

In all cases, are we all torn between the people we think we should be and the people we actually are?

*I know I am. I love the idea of being seen first as a person before being seen as the fat lady. I am constantly aware of friends and family waiting for me to see the light and lose my weight, like it will be the answer to all my problems! Sometimes I start to question myself as a result and then wonder what on earth is wrong with me if I can't see what they do.*

Do you identify as a fat person before all else, seeing all you are thru a fat lens or do you see your primary self as someone other than a fat person?

*There are days when I am not aware of my fatness, I am just me. Then there are others when it is all I am conscious of! It reminds me of a day when I was less heavier. I had the luxury of leaving work early and making the earlier train and having a choice of seats. I was standing in the aisle figuring the best one when I heard a very loud voice behind me say "move your fat ass and sit down already". You know for a minute it did not occur to me that she was talking to moi! I sat down and started giggling (I was definitely in a good mood that day)*


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## littlefairywren (Oct 11, 2008)

Sorry, meant to bold the questions, not the answers:doh:


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## Fascinita (Oct 11, 2008)

If you are fat, do you wonder what you would gain by being thin? 

I used to, as recently as maybe five or six years ago. But it never crosses my mind anymore.

Do you ask yourself if you are denying yourself something vital by being fat? 

No. I feel like I get most everything I want out of life, and the rest is either coming later, or I won't know the difference because I'll be dead  I am, on the whole, happy with my life... the moments of unhappiness I never attribute to my being fat, but to the world being a tough, mixed up place.

If you've been thin and became fat, do you mourn your former self? 

No. I can say that I've never mourned my thinner self. It's always been other people that seemed to have a problem with my being fat. I had a problem with them, not with myself. I do sometimes look back in amazement at the fact that I was considered "fat" when I weighed 150 lbs.

Do you identify as a fat person before all else, seeing all you are thru a fat lens or do you see your primary self as someone other than a fat person? 

I identify myself as me. That me is a bunch of different things. It's hard to distill my "essence" down to one of my qualities. So... no. I am fat, but that's not my identity. My identity is "me."

Do you think your fat is irrelevant to who you are as a person; do you just choose to not see thru that lens no matter what? 

No. Fat is relevant to who I am. I don't know that I understand what a "fat lens" is, but I do find that my experiences as a fat person color my world to some extent. But so do my experiences as a first-born child, or as a brunette, or as the first person in my family to graduate from college.

If you want to gain, do you feel that you are missing something no matter what size you are? 

I don't want to gain. If I gain, it's OK.

If you loose weight (either for health or for vanity or both), do you ever feel guilty for rejecting your fatter self? 

No.

Do you feel like a traitor to the cause (assuming you believe in the SA cause)? 

No.

Is this an affirmation of the negative things society at large thinks about fat people? 

No. It's a personal choice.

If you always identified as a fat person, then just who do you become after significant weight loss? 

I imagine it might be difficult to adjust, if you strongly identified as a fat person.


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## B68 (Oct 11, 2008)

I really thought my partners fat was mine. I kissed, hugged and defended it.

And about weight loss i think it's like this: You're a FA to fall in love with a 400 pound woman. And you're a (hu)man who loves his wife to stick around and care when she has to drop to 150 pounds. 

Love is challenged by things like weightloss or other physical changes because of an accident, a dissease or whatever. But love can't be beaten by it. 

I allways believed it should be like this and i found out it really goes like this...


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## Dr. Feelgood (Oct 11, 2008)

You must spread some rep around before giving any more to Olwen.

Otherwise, you'd get logophile rep for using "banal" and "esoteric" in the same sentence! I love your erudite, thoughtful posts.


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## LillyBBBW (Oct 11, 2008)

*If you are fat, do you wonder what you would gain by being thin?*
Yes. I wonder if I would get more gigs overall.
*Do you ask yourself if you are denying yourself something vital by being fat?*
More work sometimes, otherweise It's so much an intrical part of who I am it rarely crosses my mind.
*If you've been thin and became fat, do you mourn your former self?*
N/A
*If you have always been fat, do you long for a level acceptance and overall ease you think you'd get if you were thin?*
Yes. My mother gives me a hard time about being fat. I hate that if I get sick or have an injury I'm seen as a walking corpse. If I were thin I wouldn't get this kind of crap.
*Do you identify as a fat person before all else, seeing all you are thru a fat lens or do you see your primary self as someone other than a fat person?*
I see my primary self as neither a fat person nor anything else. I'm me and that's all. I am fat but I'm not so hung up on fatness, blackness, chickness, etc. There's more to life.
*Do you think your fat is irrelevant to who you are as a person; do you just choose to not see thru that lens no matter what?*
No, not at all. Fat is a part of who I am but doesn't define who I am. I don't see myself through curly hair or high arched feet. I'm not going out of my way to turn a blind eye towards it either. It just is what it is.
*If you want to gain, do you feel that you are missing something no matter what size you are?*
Yes in a way. There is always something I can be critical about with my body. I see a photo of myself sometimes and become dismayed because my body looks too angular and boxy, especially in the back. I get a twinge of envy looking at bigger and smaller bodies sometimes thinking, "Gawd I wish I had that shape." It's a thing everyone experiences though, the grass is always greener they say. But through my eye sometimes I look like a giant mailbox. I feel completely unfeminine that way so I tend to prefer being bigger and more rounded. 
*If you loose weight (either for health or for vanity or both), do you ever feel guilty for rejecting your fatter self?*
No. You do what you have to do. My only worry is that people will wax snarky and say, "I thought you liked being fat?" It's not enough to stop me from doing what I feel is necessary though.
*Do you feel like a traitor to the cause (assuming you believe in the SA cause)?*
No
*Is this an affirmation of the negative things society at large thinks about fat people?*
In all honsty sometimes I do. I always feel depleted somehow when famous people like Jennifer Love Hewitt, Debra Voigt, Mo'nique, Brittany Spears and other famous stars make a spectacle of their lose/gain/lose journey. It doesn't affect me personally but it does leave an impression on the way society views fat people. It grants greater permission for people to oatracize, shame and scold fatties. The overall obsession with fat, both positive and negative, drives me crazy. The moment someone's identity becomes tied into being fat or being thin it seems a waste of a human life to me. All the other wonders and talents that make up that person lose a great deal of their meaning which is a moral tragedy. 
*If you always identified as a fat person, then just who do you become after significant weight loss?*
The same person only smaller.


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## olwen (Oct 11, 2008)

Kmdkml, your answer to the question about being torn made me realize, I think I've always wanted to be seen as the fat lady, but in a good way, like I wanted to be like a superhero. Like fatness should be great and almighty powerful. Able to move mountains and vanquish foes with a slight jiggle. It shouldn't just be equal to thin, it should be better. The complete opposite to the way a lot of people see it now. But I see now that is just unrealistic. It is what it is and what it is, is different to a lot of people and it's probably better that way. 

Fasc, A "fat lens"...how do I describe this? It's a sort of filter thru which all of our life experiences can pass thru and that may be used in tandem with a fat bubble. Kind of like putting a fat spin on all things, if that makes any sense. I've always considered both to be tools we used to survive in the world at large. Both things seemed to make the world different enough for me to wonder if a sort of major transformation would happen if I could pop the bubble or crack the lens....kind of like I'm sharing one body with two people. A thin version and a fat version....fatness becomes it's own strange self-contained world where the rules are different from the rest of the world. I hope all that makes sense. It's difficult to verbalize.

B68, you make being an FA seem so simple....Why make it harder than it has to be? Treat your love of fatness the way you would treat anything you love. I just wish it WERE that easy for so many others. I'm not saying that other FAs are bad for not being conflicted about certain aspects, just that it would be nice for all of us if relationships were easy. What I'm saying is that it's human to have desires too and I don't see how you can just ignore or sacrifice them if your SO drops a couple hundred lbs. It would be just as human to admit you have needs and own up to the fact that love, as great a force of nature as it is, isn't a blanket cure all for all relationship troubles. I'm not down on love....I just think that too often people use love as a scapegoat for their relationship ills (I'm having so much trouble making sense today)....anyway, the point of the questions I posed to all FAs (male and female) is to find out if any of you ever feel like your SO is two people struggling for dominance in the same body, and if so, how does that affect your relationship or relate to you as someone who is invested in your SO's fatness.



All these answers are really good. Lots of food for thought. I really am surprised to learn that there are other fat people who have always seen themselves as more than fat people. And that is perhaps how it should be. If other people who reduce us to just fat people (as authority figures already do), do things like underestimate us, refuse to take us seriously, or become convinced that we have nothing to contribute, or carry around an unreasonable amount of fear towards us, then we would be doing something similar if we only saw ourselves as just fat people.....I'm having one of those duh moments right now. I'm shocked that I never thought of this before now. It seems so obvious. 

Anyway, I'd love to hear more answers from more people.


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## olwen (Oct 11, 2008)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> You must spread some rep around before giving any more to Olwen.
> 
> Otherwise, you'd get logophile rep for using "banal" and "esoteric" in the same sentence! I love your erudite, thoughtful posts.



Thank you good Doctor. :bow::bow:


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## exile in thighville (Oct 11, 2008)

I'm pretty much with B68. As a feeder, it becomes doubly easy to feel the pangs of possession of your partner's body, but at the end of the day, it's all about the quality of life, which obstacles blocking physical attraction aspects down the road might hinder, but not nearly as much as the risks of things you'll have to miss if and when the time comes. If a man's wife has to lose her hair to chemo, it's the same thing...you swallow hard and accept if that's what love and devotion requires.


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## superodalisque (Oct 11, 2008)

*If you are fat, do you wonder what you would gain by being thin?* i don't know why but i never really have wondered. maybe because most of my friends are not fat and i don't really see much difference between their lives and mine. actually i think my fat has spared me some things and i feel rather lucky for that. 

*Do you ask yourself if you are denying yourself something vital by being fat?* i don't feel i have really denied myself anything. i still have the same goals etc... i'd have in life anyway. i'm not the type to wait to lose weight to do anything thats important to me. i don't worry too much about how people will take me. the only thing that may hold me back sometimes is my ability to handle certain things physically. but that isn't exclusive to size. i have recently had a bout of sciatica but i have thin friends who have or have had it too. even now i still do most things i would do without it. the only thing i don't do is travel in an SUV--which i wasn't fond of to begin with anyway. but i'll continue doing my therapy etc... and this will go away and i'll be able to again. 

*If you've been thin and became fat, do you mourn your former self?* i was only thin until i was 5. there was something "wrong " with me then too if you were to ask my mom. it was during a time when fat babies were in vogue. i think it taught me that no matter what somebody will try and tell you thta something is "wrong " with you no matter what. so its best to just wake up and love who you happen to be at the time since we are all beautiful in different ways anyway. why waste your life feeling bad about something lovely?
*If you have always been fat, do you long for a level acceptance and overall ease you think you'd get if you were thin? * no, because i feel accepted. i don't look at myself wholey through the eyes of others--especially people ignorant enough not to take me as a whole. sure ,i have my insecurities but those are human. i think the core to all of this is accepting that you are fine just the way that you are. it seems that when you do it makes it much easier for other people to be ok with you too. if you hate yourself you give other people license to hate you too. if you really love yourself you can show other people how to love you by your own actions.

*Do you identify as a fat person before all else, seeing all you are thru a fat lens or do you see your primary self as someone other than a fat person? * no i identify as Felecia first foremost and always. i mean it doesn't make sense to think of yourself as only fat. its such a small part of who you are as a person. its like saying your only and first identity is being a blonde or a brunette. that entire concept is foreign to me as well as highly limiting. i enjoy that fat is not the norm. i enjoy being a rare size. its part of my concept of being a voluptuary, which for me means that luxury pleasure and excess is ok. i don't feel guilty for loving and enjoying life. i don't believe that being lucky enough to have a lot in life is a vice. but there are so many other wonderful things that i want to explore as well.

*Do you think your fat is irrelevant to who you are as a person; do you just choose to not see thru that lens no matter what?* i dont think my fat is irrelevant. i think its just a piece of the puzzle. its irreleveant only in terms of limiting me. i'm the only one who can limit me. even if being fat presents some challenges there is more than one way to skin a cat. 

*If you want to gain, do you feel that you are missing something no matter what size you are?* i don't gain purposefully. i don't cry if i do either. i am what i am. i just kinda roll with it. i buy a bigger size if need be or do things in a different way if necessary. i don't beat myself up for it. i never feel bad about it. and i don't feel like i'm missing out because of my weight either way. if i'm missing out on something its probably because i'm not handling something well or approaching it in the right way. my weight has nothing to do with that.

*If you loose weight (either for health or for vanity or both), do you ever feel guilty for rejecting your fatter self?* no because anything i do for myself is fine as long as its what i want. no one should ever feel guilty about trying to be happy no matter what that means. 

*Do you feel like a traitor to the cause (assuming you believe in the SA cause)? * no, never. because being able to be yourself and have the freedom to be yourself is a huge part of size acceptance. maybe it should just be called an acceptance movement. people spend so much of their time and energy hating themselves. its so sad. its such a waste not to accept yourself. taking on another prejudice against other types doesn't make sense if you are really trying to be free.

*Is this an affirmation of the negative things society at large thinks about fat people?* it can be if you focus on the hatred and victimization. i wish SA was more of a celebration and love affair with oneself and how lovely a person is as they exist. i don't think we explore that enough. there is too much pity and misery for my personal taste. i think sometimes people forget the uplifting component of SA and want to sing the "you done me wrong " song too much. everybody has been mistreated in one way or another. fat people aren't unique. society is hard on everybody in different ways. it would be nicer if SA would concentrate on the creation of a more celebratory sanctuary than it does. it would be especially nice if we stopped hating on and victimizing each other because we don't feel good enough about ourselves.

* If you always identified as a fat person, then just who do you become after significant weight loss?* i don't soley identify as a fat person. and thats why i'd still be me no matter what. whoever i am physically my heart my soul and my mind are still me. i would still be complete. i would just be the skinny girl at the bash telling everyone how lovely they were and how i remember the joys of being fat.

I*f you are an FA, do you identify yourself by the fat you love? Do you feel as tho your partner's fat is so much a part of who you are that it feel's like your own? Do you feel like part of yourself dies when your partners decides to reject/loose their fat? If so, are you able to express that loss in a way that doesn't make you feel like you are the worst person in the world? If you want your partner to gain can you express that in a way that doesn't make you feel like the worst person in the world? Do you ever feel like you have to choose between your fat identity and your partner's fat identity? Do you feel like you are responsible for what they think they are missing? ARE they missing something? Are YOU? Do you feel awful for wanting to hold onto it? Do you stay or do you go?* wow awesome questions! all i can say is those questions are why i find it hard to be with an FA. i need so much more than to be appreciated only for my fat. i know a lot of very attractive and wonderful FAs but somehow i get scared because i feel that i might feel alone in a relationship with them because as to this date i don't know if i've met one, with whom i've had a mutual attraction, who really wanted to know and cherish all of me. 

*In all cases, are we all torn between the people we think we should be and the people we actually are? Are we ever truly comfortable with fat whether we wear it or not? Truly? Is it really and truly possible to be fat/love fat and be completely satisfied? Is it unrealistic to expect satisfaction? * i think it is truly possible to be satisfied and happy with yourself. part of that would be not concentrating on fat as being something negative. not everyone hates fat. children love it their first instinct is to love it. somehow people foreget that they love it. some people even suppress it. maybe size acceptance should be around to remind people how much they really do love it. its kinda like being black was when i was a girl. people were in such denial about the beauty of blacknes. big lips, big hips, big bottoms and dark skin was not in. black people had to repeat the mantra "black is beautiful" to remind themselves of what they already knew. but today no on can question the beauty of blackness anymore. in the past society was not ready. there were socio/political/economic reasons for racism as there is for the lack of fat acceptance. one day soon when we learn to love ourselves and show it we won't be denied anymore either. being accepted is all about confidence and the willingness to do the hard work.

*ARE we missing something?* yes, i think we are missing the fact that it takes work. we don;t want to e responsible for our end of things. acceptance does not fall like manna from heaven. we also have to go the extra mile and do the hard work for the things we want. in the end everything is up to us and we need to feel worthy and strong enough to take and accept that power and use it for what we want.

*Are all these questions irrelevant? Am I overthinking all this stuff? Asking too many questions at once? Do any of these questions even make sense? Is this even stuff we want to talk about or has it all been talked about to death? 

What do you think?*i think these are excellent and thoughtful questions. any question you feel you need to have answered you should ask. it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. it can't hurt. and mainly the truth is it will help a lot because the people here have great insight and we learn so much from any communication we have with each other. thank you for asking:kiss2:


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## Dr. P Marshall (Oct 11, 2008)

I'm beginning to think that one common thing that we all share, fat people and FA's alike is that when it comes to fatness, we may often feel as though there is always something missing. 
*I think most people feel that there is always something missing. I think as humans we spend a lot of time wondering what could have been or is there something better or am I on the right path.*

If you are an FA, do you identify yourself by the fat you love? 
*Yes, to a degree. I feel that being an FA is a part of who I am. I identify with fat in the abstract, I guess. To me it means that all things being equal, the men I am attracted to will be fat to some degree. BUT all things are never equal and when talking about a specific person in a specific relationship, the answer would change for me personally. I realize it is unlikely that I would START a relationship with a thin man, but if a fat man became thin and the relationship was otherwise everything I ever wanted, I would choose the relationship and accept any diminishment in sexual arousal that may occur(it may not occur as well, it depends). I will always be an FA, but there is so much more to life and relationships than pure physical animal attraction, in my opinion, so I don't feel that in the context of relationships, I identify myself with a specific partner's fat. I would identify myself in the context of the relationship with that person, not their fat. *

Do you feel as tho your partner's fat is so much a part of who you are that it feel's like your own? 
*No. I had a relationship where the man fluctuated between fat and thin and, while I definitely had feelings on the matter, I never felt that his fat was my own.*

Do you feel like part of yourself dies when your partners decides to reject/loose their fat? 
*Speaking of the above relationship, I felt a loss, but not a part of myself. I am more than an FA, just as he was more than his weight, so our relationship had many other variables and I was always able to keep my identity as a whole without feeling his weight loss threatened that. The only situation where I could see it being a problem for me is if a fat man became thin and resented me for having been attracted to him while he was fat. In other words, if my partner hated the fact I was an FA, even after it was less relevant, then I would feel like I was being asked to reject part of who I am. But if he lost weight and was able to accept that I am an FA and that there would be an adjustment, but that he was overall glad to have me in his life whatever his size, then no, it wouldn't make me feel like a part of myself had died.*

If so, are you able to express that loss in a way that doesn't make you feel like you are the worst person in the world? 
*I do believe that everyone's body is their own domain and so the fact that there is a sense of regret when a partner becomes thin has always made me feel a bit bad. I'm talking fat to thin though, not if a person was smaller but still fat. For me thinness in a partner is something I have to adjust to and it makes me feel very shallow sometimes that there is a sense of loss at all, but I can't change that, I can only adjust to it for the person I care about. I don't think feeling the loss makes me the worst person in the world. I would think that attempting to sabotage a person's efforts would make me rotten and I would never do something like that. Basically , it's a fine line because once your partner knows you prefer them fat(because it was expressed when they were fat), you can't take that knowledge away. I honestly think I would not express my personal issues with adjusting to my partner's weight loss to my partner(I didn't in the past, and I don't think I would now either). Especially while they were trying to lose weight. I would be as supportive as I could and get support for myself somewhere else(like here for example.) I figure my partner would already know my feelings and doesn't need to hear about me dealing with it. That seems unfair to them.*

If you want your partner to gain can you express that in a way that doesn't make you feel like the worst person in the world? 
*I would only want a partner to gain if they also wanted to. To me, even though I am a weight gain fetishist, that is an issue that I think is entirely up to my partner and it is not a deal breaker by any means if they don't want to gain.*

Do you ever feel like you have to choose between your fat identity and your partner's fat identity? 
*This is a really interesting question. I think I understand what you mean. Since I am not fat myself, I do feel like it is my partner's fat identity that is the most important. I'm not only talking about weight loss either, there may be times that something I find arousing is not something that they are particularly happy about (say weight gain, or something not fitting, etc) and in those instances I would definitely not express my feelings on the matter to my partner(again, I haven't in the past and I don't think I would if put in the same situations again). I don't know that that's really choosing one fat identity over another though. I think all relationships have times where there is a disconnect in how a situation is viewed and a little understanding of the other person is important. I don't think constant expression of my FAness is required for me to have my identity intact. Especially since a partner is so much more than their fat. *

Do you feel like you are responsible for what they think they are missing? 
*I would only feel that way if I knew that the person stayed a size that they didn't want to be because they are afraid I would find them less attractive. But if it's simply that a man is fat(for whatever reasons) and he remains fat for reasons other than feeling like he has to to make me happy, I would not feel responsible. *

ARE they missing something? 
*That is such a difficult question. I really think that is so dependent on the individual. Everything a person experiences makes them who they are so maybe they are missing something, but maybe they have gained(no pun intended) something as well. Everyone's experience is so different and so are their priorities and interests, so I don't know if there's an answer to that. *

Are YOU? 
*Again, that is so hard to answer, because the partner you have is the partner you have as they are. There's no way to tell how things would have been or could be. *

Do you feel awful for wanting to hold onto it? 
*I don't feel awful, but I wish it were easier to accept. In other words, if a partner said "I want to be thin now" I wish I could instantaneously adjust and not feel any loss.*

Do you stay or do you go? 
*In an otherwise good relationship, I would stay. Definitely. Again, there is so much more to life than just pure physical desire. I think desire is important, but I also think it is most important when a relationship first develops. Everyone changes over time, so there has to be some acceptance of that if you ever want a long term relationship. I think when you are very attracted to someone in the beginning it helps strengthen the bonds that get you through things down the road, and that can include radical physical changes. But ultimately a life together is about much more than sex and pure attraction in my opinion.*

In all cases, are we all torn between the people we think we should be and the people we actually are? 
*I think that's true for everyone on earth. I think we all have an ideal of ourselves (and not just a physical ideal, either) and we often find ourselves feeling like we fall short. *


Are we ever truly comfortable with fat whether we wear it or not?
*The answer to this is probably to some degree no. Otherwise I don't think we would do so much self exploration and have so many strong feelings in the SA movement be we fat or thin. I think part of that is society's attitude towards fat. Even if you don't believe the negative things you are bombarded with, the reality is many people do and you know that most of your life as a fat person or FA is spent in a world that is by and large hostile to it. So that makes it difficult to feel truly comfortable, not because as an FA I think fat is wrong, but because I often wonder whether a fat partner's life would be easier/happier/etc if they were thin.*


Is it really and truly possible to be fat/love fat and be completely satisfied? 
*I can only speak as an FA, but yes I think it's possible as long as you are realistic about the fact that there is another person involved in your relationships and there will be compromises and differences of viewpoint, etc. *

Is it unrealistic to expect satisfaction? 
*No. I think it's unrealistic to expect constant bliss, but satisfaction is something I think is attainable for many people of all shapes and sizes in their respective lives and relationships. *

ARE we missing something?
*Do you mean compared to people outside the SA movement? Or compared to thin people and non-FAs? If that is what you mean, then I don't think we are. There's no "right way" to be IMO. Everyone's life is different and there are happy and unhappy people everywhere of all types. *

Are all these questions irrelevant? 
*I think seeking to understand ourselves better as people(not just fat or FA people either) is always a good thing. I wish more folks did it.*

Am I overthinking all this stuff? 
*I think these are the type of questions that many people here have probably asked themselves or thought about in some way at some time, even if they didn't articulate it quite as clearly.*

Asking too many questions at once? 
*OK, it IS a lot of thinking to do on a Saturday. But I actually thought the list of questions for both groups made it easier for me to understand what you were actually asking us. I think it made it all more clear.*

Do any of these questions even make sense? 
*I just answered them, so either they make sense or I am as deluded as you are.*

Is this even stuff we want to talk about or has it all been talked about to death? 
*I don't feel it's been talked about to death. Maybe I have missed it if it has, but I think these are the sort of issues that often lie behind other discussions and I think it's good to discuss them by themselves for a change. I think it is easier to give more honest answers when the context is general exploration of these points and not, let's say, how these points relate to someone's personal story in another thread, or something like that.*


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## southernfa (Oct 11, 2008)

olwen said:


> *I'm beginning to think that one common thing that we all share, fat people and FA's alike is that when it comes to fatness, we may often feel as though there is always something missing.
> 
> If you are fat, do you wonder what you would gain by being thin? *


N/A


> *If you are an FA, do you identify yourself by the fat you love? *


No


> * Do you feel as tho your partner's fat is so much a part of who you are that it feel's like your own? *


No


> *Do you feel like part of yourself dies when your partners decides to reject/loose their fat? If so, are you able to express that loss in a way that doesn't make you feel like you are the worst person in the world? *


No & N/A


> * If you want your partner to gain can you express that in a way that doesn't make you feel like the worst person in the world? Do you ever feel like you have to choose between your fat identity and your partner's fat identity? Do you feel like you are responsible for what they think they are missing? ARE they missing something? Are YOU? Do you feel awful for wanting to hold onto it? Do you stay or do you go? *


PHEW!?! I think the important point is whatever desires we might hold privately or as a fantasy, the person before us is far more than their physical attributes and the only hope of a successful, enduring relationship rests on keeping a steady eye on that ball. Nothing else comes before it.


> *In all cases, are we all torn between the people we think we should be and the people we actually are? *


Sure, I think most people beat themselves up all the time over perceived failings.


> * Are we ever truly comfortable with fat whether we wear it or not? Truly? *


Sure. Why not? When, in the past, I have dated BBWs, I am first and foremost in public with that person as a person, not as a body. Secondly, it is nice to be with someone I am more-than-usual attracted to and thirdly it really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.


> * Is it really and truly possible to be fat/love fat and be completely satisfied? Is it unrealistic to expect satisfaction?
> 
> ARE we missing something?*


Personally, I think it is a big mistake to expect any sense of enduring satisfaction or contentment to come from physical attributes of any sort. Firstly, they are only a small part of the human experience, secondly they change, age and pass away. Pin your happiness to such things and you simply must eventually lose it.


> *Are all these questions irrelevant? Am I overthinking all this stuff? Asking too many questions at once? Do any of these questions even make sense? Is this even stuff we want to talk about or has it all been talked about to death?
> 
> What do you think?*


No questions = no answers... always ask, until the need passes.


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## B68 (Oct 11, 2008)

@ Olwen.

You don't ask to much, but there are no real answers to your questions. Like Superodelisque said, it takes work and time and i think that's all there's to it.

It is true and it should be comforting. The fact that you are struggling with these issues (and don't just follow the lead) tells me you'll get to a point when you suddenly realise the questions have just faded away.

I think it's about doubts and questions that dissapear, not about answers. 

It's about life. Every minor detail makes you grow and finally makes you confident about the lot. You'll find the balance.

Which doesn't say you should stop asking...


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## Lovelyone (Oct 11, 2008)

You'll have to pardon me for not answering in question format like everyone else. It took me a long time to decide whether or not to post my thoughts on this subect. Being an ssbbw can be an outwardly public experience because--lets face it, if I go out in public as a 550 lb woman it tends to garner me some stares and curiosity. It has become common place for people to point, stare, feel disdain, be intrigued, whisper, be outright blatanly rude, and giggle. To some degree I have come to EXPECT it. To some people, I am the literal pink elephant at the store. They dont look at/acknowledge me, for if they did--they would have to admit that fat people do exist, they do deserve respect, courtesy, and dignity, and we CAN and ARE part of their functioning society. For this reason, I tend to take the "stealth mode" attitude while I am shopping. I dont look at, talk to, make eye contact with ANYONE for fear that they will unleash the barrage of THEIR opinions about my size, on me. 

It is the inward battle, however, which plagues me the most. I am constantly doubting myself. I wonder if I am living the life that I should be and if being thin would change anything to the positive for me. I find myself thinking about how my life would have changed had I been thin all along. I contemplate the fact that if I were thin to chubby...I probably wouldn't have leg edema or bursitis in my hips, I wouldnt suffer backaches, and I would be able to walk long distances without having to stop and catch my breath. I chew on the fact that if I werent so big, I would be able to ride the rides at amusement parks and sit in chairs with arms at restaurants, not to mention movie theaters. I would not dread stairs, turnstiles, small cars, and wooden furniture. I consider whether or not the on again/off again depression that I have struggled with for over 20 years would be any different, or would it just be depression from something else? I speculate whether or not I have affected my life span by being so large. I wonder if the people who claim to be my friends are really friends at all--or are they just taking pity on a fat woman? I wonder if being part of a community designed for acceptance of larger people is really helping me, or is it just acting as a "band-aid" for the moment--cos in real life I dont have my online community with me to fight off the nastiness and cruel people in the world. Yes, I can take what's been said here with me..and try to apply it to my life, but I sincerely doubt that any size acceptance community will change the attitudes of fat haters in society. There have been, and always will be fat-haters. Does it make me a hypocrite for being part of a community that I am not sure is helping? Probably does. Will I give up cos I dont see great changes on the horizon? Absolutely not.

It makes me sad to know that for most of my life being fat has been a detriment to my self-esteem, my trust in people, my ability to form lasting relationships, and it has lessened my feelings of self-worth. At times I feel like a living breathing oxymoron. When those negative thoughts invade my personal space it becomes necessary for me to try to convince myself that all my negative thoughts/feelings of uselessness are just force-fed (pardon the pun) bullshit from a society that is so afraid of themselves that they have to make one group of people the outcasts, to make themselves look/feel better. I become my own cheerleader trying to reinforce a positive and good mental attitude, all-the-while battling with the aforementioned issues which are bubbling on the surface. So yes, at times I do feel that being fat is the monkey on my back that I cant shake off. I can look in the mirror a thousand times and say "You are beautiful, you have worth. People love you just as you are". Believing those statements are a whole new ball of wax. I can tell people "I am a confident SSBBW" but in reality I still have those thin girl thoughts inside of me. I identify first and foremost as a fat person, cos its all I have ever known and most likely will be all I will ever know.


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## Jon Blaze (Oct 11, 2008)

If you are an FA, do you identify yourself by the fat you love? 

- I identify myself as an eclectic dude. I'm not balanced though. It's a pendulum that swings every so slightly, but it still swings. But in any case, I try to appreciate women the way they come. So that's a yes and no, depending on who I am with.

Do you feel as tho your partner's fat is so much a part of who you are that it feel's like your own? Do you feel like part of yourself dies when your partners decides to reject/loose their fat? 

The first one: No. 

The second one: I don't feel like a part me dies, but depending on the reasoning for any weight changes, I can have some discontent. It's not in my hands (And I try my damndest to respect people with the choices they want to make in regards to this [Unless they are hateful to the group that they move away from: I gut them like fish if that's the case lol]), but I don't always agree with "Why?" I guess. It's more of a mind thing as I've said than a physical thing.


As for others: I don't desire gains, but if I did, it would just be me letting it out. No games.

I leave it up to them in regards to their body size choices, so that's a bit of a null for me. If I thought they were missing something (Again: Hypothetical), I think for me it would depend on that thing they were missing.

I like the questions you bring to the table.


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## Chimpi (Oct 11, 2008)

Reading all of the other posts in this thread, things have just 'clicked' in a way they didn't before. I think I can understand your line of questioning better now than before, so I have a few points. I hope you don't mind more answers from the same people. :blush:



> I really am surprised to learn that there are other fat people who have always seen themselves as more than fat people. And that is perhaps how it should be. If other people who reduce us to just fat people (as authority figures already do), do things like underestimate us, refuse to take us seriously, or become convinced that we have nothing to contribute, or carry around an unreasonable amount of fear towards us, then we would be doing something similar if we only saw ourselves as just fat people.....I'm having one of those duh moments right now. I'm shocked that I never thought of this before now. It seems so obvious.



I have this thing that regularly aggravates me at work.
It is something I strive to defeat, but it often shows its ghastly face quite often. I struggle, in my own personal world, to be interesting. Quite often I will be talking to one of my co-workers about an idea, particular event or anything at all, and I could very well be interrupted. Usually when this happens, the person that I was speaking to tends to forget I was ever talking about anything at all, as if I was a figment of their memory or thought(s).
Often times it dazzles my mind how they can shrug me off as some unimportant person, but I can assure you I have never related it to being fat. Whatever the reasoning is - and I'm sure there's a great many possible causes for this behavior - I have never imagined that because I was fat they did not take me serious or literal or unimportant in any way. I think that is what you mean by a "fat lens." An visual filter of perception that everything, bad _and_ good needs to be sorted through before anything is determined.
Did I do horrible at the job interview because of my weight?
Did I do very well at the job interview because of my weight?
Did that cab driver pass me up because of my weight?
Did this cab driver stop [unusually fast] because of my weight?
Is the person talking to me not looking at me because I am fat?
Does the person talking to me keep blatantly staring at me because I am fat?
So on and so forth... Is that what you mean by a "fat lens?"
If so, I definitely do not envision anything through a fat lens, except the usual physical limitations of my size (which may or may not also include my height) or otherwise common dimensional aspects of being fat. I do not think people listen to me less or more because I am fat. I do not think my chances of a better job or a better scholarship or a better car loan (etc... also including the anti- of each of those situations and everything else)) are because I am fat. I generally view the world in a much more complex manner - things are defined by any billions of variables for each and every situation.
I didn't get the job because I was not right for the job (because of my lack of a college education, or because I am too tall to drive the company vehicle, or because I completely failed the written essay portion of the job interview); I didn't get a better car loan because my credit just sucks ass or because I have no credit; the person I was talking to was not listening to me because I had horrible breath, or because something dreadful was on their mind and it causes that specific person to not communicate with their eyes very well... There are so many other factors that come into play for each and every situation. Everything is _not_ because we are or are not fat, or even because we are or are not with a fat person. That's what I think, anyway.



olwen said:


> What I'm saying is that it's human to have desires too and I don't see how you can just ignore or sacrifice them if your SO drops a couple hundred lbs. It would be just as human to admit you have needs and own up to the fact that love, as great a force of nature as it is, isn't a blanket cure all for all relationship troubles. I'm not down on love....I just think that too often people use love as a scapegoat for their relationship ills (I'm having so much trouble making sense today)....anyway, the point of the questions I posed to all FAs (male and female) is to find out if any of you ever feel like your SO is two people struggling for dominance in the same body, and if so, how does that affect your relationship or relate to you as someone who is invested in your SO's fatness.



I think what you are basically saying, to sum it up, here is that it's okay to be distraught if your partner were to lose a lot of weight. I can completely empathize with that statement (which might be why I said it and might not be what you mean at the same time). I have often felt like a horrible person in the past for not wanting my significant other, friends or other acquaintances, but at the same time it's just a chemical make up of who I am and I should work with it the best that I can. When it comes to other people, sure as hell they can and will (and should) do as they please, but there's nothing wrong with grieving; even grieving to the extent of wanting out of the situation and to look for something different - more fitting.
I'm pretty sure a lot of people will view people that believe that way to be bad people, but I'm sure there's also others that will accept that of others or even be one to think that way. *Shrugs* So many variables...

As to the posing question of two people struggling for dominance in ones body, I do not think that is often the case. I think it's more or less one person struggling for dominance in ones body. You might be a thin person trying to become fat. You might be a fat person trying to become thin. You might be a fat person trying to become fatter. You might be a thin person trying to become thinner; so on and so forth. I think the case is more often than not one person trying to achieve their ideal body form - balanced in terms of emotions, aesthetics and convenience. I am sure there are cases of two people in ones body struggling to be the dominant body type or persona, but I do not think that is the majority of people. Most people I have come into contact with do not fully accept or embrace who they are and constantly strive to be something better, or different.
And of course there are also those people that do truly accept and embrace who they are. Lucky, lucky people they are, I think.

*EDIT:* I also do not think it's a bad thing to have a "fat lens," or a "fat filter" for any given situation. It all depends on the person and what their hopes and expectations really are. Do they desire to be fat? Do they desire to be thin? Do they desire to be invisible? Do they desire to be visible? Do they desire to be accepted? Do they desire to be above and beyond anyone's expectations?


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## olwen (Oct 11, 2008)

Thanks for all the latest answers. They have all given me more to think about.....and thanks Lovelyone for your amazingly honest answer. I don't mind in the least that you answered it the way you did. I can relate to most of what you said. Like you, being a fat girl was all I'd ever known, so it made sense for me to identify as fat first and foremost. My entire life has been about coping with other people's reactions to my size, so, it's just always been on my mind. I'm not even sure what to make of the fact that I can choose to identify as something else. I'm still processing it...

I think the larger question I'm asking is just - how much emphasis should be put on one's size whether for ourselves and/or in relation to an SO who is also an FA? Additional things an FA may wonder: "does the fat person worry that weight loss will push away the FA? Does the fat person ever truly accept that an FA may love them for and see them as more than their fat?" (Thanks Dr. P for your good questions. Those *are* things I've wondered about.)

Perhaps a more far reaching question is - How fat is fat? and I'm not talking about numbers on a scale either. When is fatness no longer about itself? When is it allowed to just be? Just what is the fat state of mind and how does/can it evolve? 

Obviously, this will depend on just how fat the person is; someone who is supersized has extra issues to deal with. But, I wonder if there is a broad formula that we can all apply to our own situations. Plug in variables as necessary, (hopefully none of them are imaginary numbers)....just make sure both sides of the equation balance out. 

And yes, these things will and do take time...but...I don't think it's enough to just say, it will work itself out. Practical and workable solutions, tho, are what I think I'm after here, that is assuming those sorts of solutions are available, and assuming the questions are clear to begin with. At this point I'm not even sure they are.

Also, I'm glad these questions don't seem uber ridiculous or tiresome to people. I was starting to wonder...you're right Dr. P. It's a lot of thinkin for a Saturday. 
And I apologize for my horrible japanese.


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## olwen (Oct 11, 2008)

Chimpi said:


> Reading all of the other posts in this thread, things have just 'clicked' in a way they didn't before. I think I can understand your line of questioning better now than before, so I have a few points. I hope you don't mind more answers from the same people. :blush:
> 
> 
> (snipped)....Is that what you mean by a "fat lens?"
> ...



You posted this while I was composing my other answer. I don't mind in the least that you've got more to say. Thanks.

I think you get the concept of the fat lens, but I wouldn't take it to such extremes. Fat isn't the reason for every thing a fat person experiences....I just mean that it colors your perception. You still see the world, but you see it from a fat person's perspective, which may or may not be extreme. That perspective just is whatever it is. The same way I could see the world a certain way because I am some other X thing. That perspective is significant enough to warrant it's own viewing apparatus, if you will.

Again, I am surprised that another fat person *doesn't* see thru that lens....not sure yet what to make of that.



Chimpi said:


> I think what you are basically saying, to sum it up, here is that it's okay to be distraught if your partner were to lose a lot of weight. I can completely empathize with that statement (which might be why I said it and might not be what you mean at the same time). I have often felt like a horrible person in the past for not wanting my significant other, friends or other acquaintances, but at the same time it's just a chemical make up of who I am and I should work with it the best that I can. When it comes to other people, sure as hell they can and will (and should) do as they please, but there's nothing wrong with grieving; even grieving to the extent of wanting out of the situation and to look for something different - more fitting.
> I'm pretty sure a lot of people will view people that believe that way to be bad people, but I'm sure there's also others that will accept that of others or even be one to think that way. *Shrugs* So many variables...



Yes, that is what I'm saying....it's the same way it's okay for someone who isn't an FA to not be attracted to a fat person. If that desire it a part of who you are, it seems reasonable to want to satisfy that part of you. The trick is just balancing your own happiness with your SO's happiness when your desires are at cross purposes. This all seems painfully obvious and I apologize if any of this is boring....I guess I'm processing a lot of thoughts these days. Please bear with me.



Chimpi said:


> As to the posing question of two people struggling for dominance in ones body, I do not think that is often the case. I think it's more or less one person struggling for dominance in ones body. You might be a thin person trying to become fat. You might be a fat person trying to become thin. You might be a fat person trying to become fatter. You might be a thin person trying to become thinner; so on and so forth. I think the case is more often than not one person trying to achieve their ideal body form - balanced in terms of emotions, aesthetics and convenience. I am sure there are cases of two people in ones body struggling to be the dominant body type or persona, but I do not think that is the majority of people. Most people I have come into contact with do not fully accept or embrace who they are and constantly strive to be something better, or different.
> And of course there are also those people that do truly accept and embrace who they are. Lucky, lucky people they are, I think.
> 
> *EDIT:* I also do not think it's a bad thing to have a "fat lens," or a "fat filter" for any given situation. It all depends on the person and what their hopes and expectations really are. Do they desire to be fat? Do they desire to be thin? Do they desire to be invisible? Do they desire to be visible? Do they desire to be accepted? Do they desire to be above and beyond anyone's expectations?



This part of your answer is the most interesting to me. I don't think I ever had a clearly defined body ideal...just some vague notion of smaller. I think that if bigger sizes were accommodated better in all possible ways, I'd have been perfectly content to stay that size, and I think a fat lens then wouldn't have seemed necessary to me.


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## Chimpi (Oct 11, 2008)

olwen said:


> Again, I am surprised that another fat person *doesn't* see thru that lens....not sure yet what to make of that.



I think that just makes you not me, or not other people.


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## olwen (Oct 11, 2008)

Chimpi said:


> I think that just makes you not me, or not other people.



Ha, yes. And I am starting to feel like I've been missing something vital. Sigh. It never ends...


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## Fascinita (Oct 12, 2008)

I think it's clear that _anyone_ is more than her fat.

Look at it this way: everyone, even relatively thin people, carries fat on his/her body. Everyone is fat--some fatter than others, true--but EVERYONE is fat, if fat is what defines a person, since everyone has *some fat. If the presence of fat defines a person, no one is not fat.

And yet, we don't say that everyone is fat. We allow some people the "privilege" of being defined by other qualities.

Why is it that only the fattest people are not allowed to be defined by anything other than their fat? 

It's convenient, to "make believe" that only those that carry relatively more fat are defined by the amount of fat they carry. It's a semantic convenience that perhaps allows those that carry relatively less fat to view themselves as "different," to set themselves apart.

I'm not sure what this function of difference serves--on the surface it appears to be about sex and class and all kinds of privileges and power.

We should only remember that we do not need to cooperate. We are more than our fat. We are people, and we should take every opportunity to walk with our heads held high and to look at people in the eye and expect to be treated as 100% people above all.

The other side of this is that fat can be fun precisely because it pisses people off.

Plus, fat is smooth and soft.


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## littlefairywren (Oct 12, 2008)

Lovelyone said:


> You'll have to pardon me for not answering in question format like everyone else. It took me a long time to decide whether or not to post my thoughts on this subect. Being an ssbbw can be an outwardly public experience because--lets face it, if I go out in public as a 550 lb woman it tends to garner me some stares and curiosity. It has become common place for people to point, stare, feel disdain, be intrigued, whisper, be outright blatanly rude, and giggle. To some degree I have come to EXPECT it. To some people, I am the literal pink elephant at the store. They dont look at/acknowledge me, for if they did--they would have to admit that fat people do exist, they do deserve respect, courtesy, and dignity, and we CAN and ARE part of their functioning society. For this reason, I tend to take the "stealth mode" attitude while I am shopping. I dont look at, talk to, make eye contact with ANYONE for fear that they will unleash the barrage of THEIR opinions about my size, on me.
> 
> It is the inward battle, however, which plagues me the most. I am constantly doubting myself. I wonder if I am living the life that I should be and if being thin would change anything to the positive for me. I find myself thinking about how my life would have changed had I been thin all along. I contemplate the fact that if I were thin to chubby...I probably wouldn't have leg edema or bursitis in my hips, I wouldnt suffer backaches, and I would be able to walk long distances without having to stop and catch my breath. I chew on the fact that if I werent so big, I would be able to ride the rides at amusement parks and sit in chairs with arms at restaurants, not to mention movie theaters. I would not dread stairs, turnstiles, small cars, and wooden furniture. I consider whether or not the on again/off again depression that I have struggled with for over 20 years would be any different, or would it just be depression from something else? I speculate whether or not I have affected my life span by being so large. I wonder if the people who claim to be my friends are really friends at all--or are they just taking pity on a fat woman? I wonder if being part of a community designed for acceptance of larger people is really helping me, or is it just acting as a "band-aid" for the moment--cos in real life I dont have my online community with me to fight off the nastiness and cruel people in the world. Yes, I can take what's been said here with me..and try to apply it to my life, but I sincerely doubt that any size acceptance community will change the attitudes of fat haters in society. There have been, and always will be fat-haters. Does it make me a hypocrite for being part of a community that I am not sure is helping? Probably does. Will I give up cos I dont see great changes on the horizon? Absolutely not.
> 
> It makes me sad to know that for most of my life being fat has been a detriment to my self-esteem, my trust in people, my ability to form lasting relationships, and it has lessened my feelings of self-worth. At times I feel like a living breathing oxymoron. When those negative thoughts invade my personal space it becomes necessary for me to try to convince myself that all my negative thoughts/feelings of uselessness are just force-fed (pardon the pun) bullshit from a society that is so afraid of themselves that they have to make one group of people the outcasts, to make themselves look/feel better. I become my own cheerleader trying to reinforce a positive and good mental attitude, all-the-while battling with the aforementioned issues which are bubbling on the surface. So yes, at times I do feel that being fat is the monkey on my back that I cant shake off. I can look in the mirror a thousand times and say "You are beautiful, you have worth. People love you just as you are". Believing those statements are a whole new ball of wax. I can tell people "I am a confident SSBBW" but in reality I still have those thin girl thoughts inside of me. I identify first and foremost as a fat person, cos its all I have ever known and most likely will be all I will ever know.



Lovelyone your post was perfect! So perfect it made me cry. It was everything I would have said if I was not so useless expressing myself in written form. *This* is what led me to Dims, this feeling that I am not crazy or stupid and my feelings are real and I am not alone! Thank you


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## Keb (Oct 12, 2008)

If you are fat, do you wonder what you would gain by being thin? 
Absolutely. I've only been told my whole life, by teachers, peers, family, the media, society, etc, that I would be happier, wealthier, healthier, and more loved by everyone--have more friends and better relationships--if only I were thinner. I don't entirely buy it; I mean, there are thin people who are broke, unemployed, single, miserable, friendless, sick, and in many ways less fortunate than I have been. But maybe I'd be even more fortunate if I was thin? It's impossible not to wonder.

Do you ask yourself if you are denying yourself something vital by being fat? 
Again, constantly. Especially as I'm more and more feeling like I should be married at my age, I should be having kids--and wondering if being fat is keeping me from reaching those goals I've had for so long. I definitely want kids, I'm not willing to have them without their father in their lives...and I'm scared time will run out for me.

If you've been thin and became fat, do you mourn your former self? 
I was an adorable baby. Never thin, exactly, but more normal. But I was fat by the age of seven, so I don't really remember it. It'd be nice to be a universally adored three year old forever, but nobody gets to.

If you have always been fat, do you long for a level acceptance and overall ease you think you'd get if you were thin? 
Yeah. It'd be nice if I could go to the store and find something that was both pretty -and- fit me well. But see, thin people have trouble with that, too; my sister very rarely finds anything she likes when she shops. There's a reason we both sew. I'd happily trade the gift of thin for smaller feet, if it meant I could buy shoes that fit me well (something I have never been able to do, and being thin wouldn't make my feet smaller enough to matter).

Do you identify as a fat person before all else, seeing all you are thru a fat lens or do you see your primary self as someone other than a fat person? 
I think I definitely see myself as a person without the fat, and the fat just kind of is there. When I draw myself (which I do a lot), I very rarely draw myself as a fat person. The me inside is never small, but is more idealized.

Do you think your fat is irrelevant to who you are as a person; do you just choose to not see thru that lens no matter what? 
I don't think it's irrelevant. It's molded me as I grew up and it affects how other people approach me and treat me, too. I think in many ways it's made me stronger, and possibly kept some of my less desirable personality traits in check (like my vanity--I'd probably be a very spoiled girl if it was fed more often!). I think it's helped me in how I think about differences in people, and how I react when people are cruel. But I don't think that fat is who I am--I'm Princess Keb underneath, no matter what I look like. It's relevant, but it's not who I am, just something I happen to be.

If you always identified as a fat person, then just who do you become after significant weight loss?
I don't know. I've worried about that, too. It might be part of why I haven't spent my life desperately dieting (that or my natural hedonism). I mean...being fat frequently bites (like when chairs break...ugh) but it insulates you a bit from the jerks since they're too shallow to be your friend in the first place. Would I have my dimples if I were thinner? Would I still be cuddly and approachable for small children? Would I still be me, or would I lose something I didn't realize was me? Would my breasts get smaller faster than the rest of me? Would it make absolutely no difference in my social life or career after all? Would there be anything worth buying in a smaller size at the shops anyway? I don't know. It's scary to think about. And would I be able to stay smaller? Would someone fall in love with me thin, only to leave me if I regained the weight? Not easy questions. Scariest is whether I would still be ME though. And I don't actually know.


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## Lovelyone (Oct 12, 2008)

kmdkml said:


> Lovelyone your post was perfect! So perfect it made me cry. It was everything I would have said if I was not so useless expressing myself in written form. *This* is what led me to Dims, this feeling that I am not crazy or stupid and my feelings are real and I am not alone! Thank you


 
Consider yourself a co-author.


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## B68 (Oct 12, 2008)

Maybe this should be a new thread. But i want to reply to what Felicia said about the FA-thing.

I understand your point. As a FA i can say that sometimes i am so attracted to a BBW that it allmost hurts. That's pure physical desire. 

But it is just one of the basics a relationship requires. I only once had a relationship in which all was right. I was madly in love with her, we laughed a lot, we talked a lot, we inspired eachother and the sexual part was sweet and sensational as a result of that. 

Today i know i can never settle for less. Being with a person that's not really there for you is colder than being on your own.

So yes, there are FA's who can look through fat, even if it comes in the most heavenly shape and size. And when i can, lots of other FA's can.


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## GoldenDelicious (Oct 12, 2008)

Santaclear said:


> I think these are all good and interesting questions, Olwen, but my immediate reaction is that most of these are HUMAN questions, not only fat or FA questions.
> 
> Who _doesn't_ feel as if they might be "missing" something sometimes, maybe often if they're sad? Who can experience everything they might ever want to? Who can be said to have truly reached all their potential? It all depends on which color glasses you're looking through.
> 
> As an FA, I can state I'm not missing a thing. I do understand those who feel they're missing out because of size-related issues like challenged mobility, not fitting into chairs in public places, social prejudice etc.


I agree. I am currently fat, I have been all shapes and sizes over the years. When I was 25 I was the slimmest and physically fittest I have ever been. I thought reaching this goal that I had worked on daily for a couple of years would make me happy however I was wrong. I have to admit I was happier in my own body and felt fit and healthy but I wasn't emotionally happier. I honestly believed that everyone would find me more attractive and like me more. As if some-one could LIKE YOU more because of your body size? I really did believe it at the time. If I had stayed that size I would never have attracted my current partner because she generally doesn't find thin women attractive. I am not saying here that I am happy to be big just because of Mergirls appreciation of my size. Although she says she would still love me if I lost weight. You have to be happy with yourself as a person and to hell with what anyone else thinks. I know this is easier said that done. This is due to society, media, our parents or scornfull peers who disapprove of or ridicule for one reason or another robbing our confidences and adding to self-loathing. You need to find inner happiness. Certainly Mers love of my body has contributed to my current body confidence and feelings that I am ok being me but I would never gain or lose weight FOR anyone else but me.

I do have to add that having been both sides of the fence or rather extreme ends of the spectrum (you should see my before and after shots) I have witnessed first hand how society and certain types of people generally treat you differently depending on your size. I have actual examples. First one being clothing sales women, a bit pretty woman actually. Being treated a lot less respectfully when I was bigger and nicer when I was thinner. Maybe it was the particular shop I went into but I know I didn't imagine it. Also going for a job interview where my weight was an issue.

Maybe we all overthink things sometimes. I used to put things off and say, O'h I'll maybe start socialising more when I've lost a bit of weight. Or , I'll spend more on clothes when I've lost weight, like I didn't deserve to dress nice. What was I thinking? If you put things off until you are the perfect size you will actually miss living your life. What a waste. What is the perfect size? Perfect for whom and perfect for what? Just live life and don't put things off and be as happy as you can be, happiness can be so fleeting in the first place.


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## olwen (Oct 12, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> I think it's clear that _anyone_ is more than her fat.
> 
> Look at it this way:* everyone, even relatively thin people, carries fat on his/her body. Everyone is fat--some fatter than others, true--but EVERYONE is fat, if fat is what defines a person, since everyone has *some fat. If the presence of fat defines a person, no one is not fat.*
> 
> ...



I want that on a t-shirt. I never thought of it like that. 

As for the rest, is it really "make believe"?....Lookit, for me it was hard not to think about being fat when every little thing I did was dependent on it. You live your daily life around your physical limitations. The 'you' you are might get muted as a result I think. A lot of the things I liked no longer interest me as much, partly because I have more energy and more mobility to seek out other interests. I know part of that too is because I'm older and you just change as you age, but I wonder if I'd have liked all the things I did if I could have been able to do other things like sports for example. I like exercise now. I hated it then, even as a little kid - because of my size. Had I been smaller, I think I'd have tried out for some sports teams (as opposed to or in addition to mental ones), or just tried to do more things in general, and my high school experience would have been very different. College too. I might not have focused so much on music or reading if I had been more mobile. There are also social dynamics to consider....I do think I'd be a very different person if I had never been very fat. 

Semantic convenience or stark reality? 

......But the underlying question I think I'm getting from everyone who's said they never saw themselves as just fat people is: Did I ever cooperate in my own denigration by letting my limitations define me? I'm not saying anyone has said or implied this, but this is what I'm taking away from this thread or maybe this is what I've been asking all along.... 

 

Now my brain has owies


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## olwen (Oct 12, 2008)

Keb said:


> If you are fat, do you wonder what you would gain by being thin?
> Absolutely. I've only been told my whole life, by teachers, peers, family, the media, society, etc, that I would be happier, wealthier, healthier, and more loved by everyone--have more friends and better relationships--if only I were thinner. I don't entirely buy it; I mean, there are thin people who are broke, unemployed, single, miserable, friendless, sick, and in many ways less fortunate than I have been. But maybe I'd be even more fortunate if I was thin? It's impossible not to wonder.
> 
> Do you ask yourself if you are denying yourself something vital by being fat?
> ...



You know, the marriage thing is something I actually don't think about. I never wanted to be married. I do now, but I don't worry about it. I'm sure there are thin women who wonder the exact same thing as you. I don't think that has so much to do with size or odds or personality or appearance as it does just plain ole luck. 

You know, I know I don't know you that well, but I can't picture you being so different if you were thin. I think your sweetness would still come thru.


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## olwen (Oct 12, 2008)

B68 said:


> Maybe this should be a new thread. But i want to reply to what Felicia said about the FA-thing.
> 
> I understand your point. As a FA i can say that sometimes i am so attracted to a BBW that it allmost hurts. That's pure physical desire.
> 
> ...



I think you're right about stating a new thread. I'm interested in the FA's perspective, but I think so far it's getting drowned out in all the other answers, plus I think there is more to explore here.


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## GWARrior (Oct 12, 2008)

Im pretty sure every person on this earth has felt like they were missing something at some point in time.

Hell, Ive felt like that (on a more superficial level) when I change my hair color!


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## Haunted (Oct 12, 2008)

*If you are an FA, do you identify yourself by the fat you love?* 
I want to say no the fat i love does not identify me as a person, But the Fat I love does guide some of my decisions through life. 

*Do you feel as tho your partner's fat is so much a part of who you are that it feel's like your own?* 
No My partners Fat is Her Fat and said fat Makes Me love her and lust over her More intensely than if she where thin. 

*Do you feel like part of yourself dies when your partners decides to reject/loose their fat? If so, are you able to express that loss in a way that doesn't make you feel like you are the worst person in the world?* 
I used to sabotage my ex's diets to a degree, I have never tried to express my feelings over weight loss. I have however discussed my feelings with Misty If she where to lose weight, I do feel bad but i'm just being honest when i say if she where to get below 250-200 That i may not be as attracted although i will still love her (please don't flame me this is a discussion Misty and i have had about size and attraction)

*If you want your partner to gain can you express that in a way that doesn't make you feel like the worst person in the world? *
I have and we Play around with weight gain in RL and In Fantasy and i don't feel bad about it it's something we both share and are interested in it's something that keeps our relationship interesting. I am however concerned about health and mobility issues so i'm not an animal. 

*Do you ever feel like you have to choose between your fat identity and your partner's fat identity?* No although her fat identity does vary when she's with me, she is very confident with herself and has no fears about what others think but when she's out on her own she does lose a little bit of that confidence. I sometimes wish i was a little more confident i usually want to tell an attractive BBW that she looks nice just to boost her day a little but i shy away from it partly do to respect for Misty and partly because i don't want to come across as creepy and too forward. I'm not looking for a date i just know how a compliment can brighten your day 

*Do you feel like you are responsible for what they think they are missing? *
Of course Cause she's Missing me and I'm Not there !!!

*ARE they missing something?* 
Yes Me and her Next feeding

*Are YOU?* 
Hell yes i miss her so much it hurts 

*Do you feel awful for wanting to hold onto it?*
No i have a death grip on her and i refuse to let go i pussy footed around her long enough. 
someone else said that the attraction to fat is so extreme it consumes everything in your mind, The physical attraction i feel is incredibly intense and i sometimes feel guilty because it's so strong and all encompassing but her and i both know, i love her soul, her mind and her great big fat ass 

*Do you stay or do you go? *
See above I AINT GOING NOWHERE!!

I*n all cases, are we all torn between the people we think we should be and the people we actually are?* 
I'm finally comfortable in my skin now that i'm an out and out FA other aspects of my life i'm still trying to figure out (ie. iv recently started looking towards religion and am trying to find a local church that fits me so far i haven't had much luck)

*Are we ever truly comfortable with fat whether we wear it or not? Truly?* Until the fashion magazines and billboards are displaying BBW's then No. when we go out i am comfortable with her but i also feel protective of her because i know how cruel people can be 

*Is it really and truly possible to be fat/love fat and be completely satisfied? *
I am, when i am with her i am completely satisfied i have never felt this level of satisfaction before 

*Is it unrealistic to expect satisfaction? *
No you should Demand Satisfaction the trick is it's not an umbrella romantically i am satisfied well i will be once we are on the same coast lol.
but professionally i need more My job is draining me lately


*ARE we missing something?*
I think any one who hasn't tried fatty love is missing something LOL


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## Fascinita (Oct 12, 2008)

olwen said:


> ......But the underlying question I think I'm getting from everyone who's said they never saw themselves as just fat people is: Did I ever cooperate in my own denigration by letting my limitations define me? I'm not saying anyone has said or implied this, but this is what I'm taking away from this thread or maybe this is what I've been asking all along....
> 
> 
> 
> Now my brain has owies



Everyone's limitations define her to some extent. (So do her genius and her accomplishments, though.) 

I think we let ourselves be hoodwinked when we choose to believe that somehow our set of fat limitations makes us less valuable as people, or that it defines us entirely.

The "make believe" part is in the rhetoric that says "the less fat you are, the fewer your net limitations." This works as a means of ensuring that fat people stay in their place as the negative pole of a dichotomy in which fat is equated (ironically) with "lack." But it's just not true. It's a fiction. _Everyone_ has limitations. No one is exempt from being human


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## olwen (Oct 12, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Everyone's limitations define her to some extent. (So do her genius and her accomplishments, though.)
> 
> I think we let ourselves be hoodwinked when we choose to believe that somehow our set of fat limitations makes us less valuable as people, or that it defines us entirely.
> 
> The "make believe" part is in the rhetoric that says "the less fat you are, the fewer your net limitations." This works as a means of ensuring that fat people stay in their place as the negative pole of a dichotomy in which fat is equated (ironically) with "lack." But it's just not true. It's a fiction. _Everyone_ has limitations. No one is exempt from being human



I really like this response, especially the last paragraph. You're absolutely right, and I may have to write this down and tack it on my wall or something. Seriously. Thank you. :bow:


Also: for any FA who wants to respond, I've started a sister thread on the fat sexuality board for further exploration: http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48454


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## littlefairywren (Oct 13, 2008)

Lovelyone said:


> Consider yourself a co-author.



Thank you


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## Victim (Oct 13, 2008)

*
If you are fat, do you wonder what you would gain by being thin? *

I would be more concerned about what I might lose making the journey. Dieting takes time, money, and dedication I'd rather spend doing something else.
*
Do you ask yourself if you are denying yourself something vital by being fat?*

I don't deny myself anything I want (within practical limits). Heck, that is one of the reasons why I'm fat.

*If you've been thin and became fat, do you mourn your former self?*

As a child I would climb trees. My parents would have died of shock if they knew just how high I climbed at times. By the time I was 12 I started putting on weight. I look back on that part of my life and enjoy the memories very much. Almost as much as imagining what lies ahead of me.
*
If you have always been fat, do you long for a level (of) acceptance and overall ease you think you'd get if you were thin?*

Not for myself, but I wish my wife were more accepted when I'm not with her. Hearing her say things like "How can people not notice I'm there when I'm so big?" can be quite disenheartening.

*Do you identify as a fat person before all else, seeing all you are thru a fat lens or do you see your primary self as someone other than a fat person? Do you think your fat is irrelevant to who you are as a person; do you just choose to not see thru that lens no matter what?*

It's definitely not my identity, but it is a part of who I am. If I had to choose a primary identifier for myself, it wouldn't be fat.

*If you are an FA, do you identify yourself by the fat you love?*

If you are asking what my sexual identity is, then I would probably have to say FA. But it isn't how I identify myself overall, any more than being fat myself. 

*Do you feel as tho your partner's fat is so much a part of who you are that it feel's like your own? Do you feel like part of yourself dies when your partners decides to reject/loose their fat? If so, are you able to express that loss in a way that doesn't make you feel like you are the worst person in the world?*

Everything about my partner is a part of me, fat included. If she decided to lose, then I would change along with her since she is so much a part of me. It wouldn't be a loss, it would just be another change.

*In all cases, are we all torn between the people we think we should be and the people we actually are?*

I don't feel I should be sexually attracted to thin partners, because I already have my life partner. Even if I did not, it isn't going to do me any good to dislike who I am.
*
Are we ever truly comfortable with fat whether we wear it or not? Truly? Is it really and truly possible to be fat/love fat and be completely satisfied?*

Mankind are social animals. We want to be accepted by everyone else. It will not be possible to be truly comfortable until we are accepted universally.


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## stan_der_man (Oct 13, 2008)

olwen said:


> I'm beginning to think that one common thing that we all share, fat people and FA's alike is that when it comes to fatness, we may often feel as though there is always something missing.
> 
> If you are fat, do you wonder what you would gain by being thin? Do you ask yourself if you are denying yourself something vital by being fat? If you've been thin and became fat, do you mourn your former self? If you have always been fat, do you long for a level acceptance and overall ease you think you'd get if you were thin? Do you identify as a fat person before all else, seeing all you are thru a fat lens or do you see your primary self as someone other than a fat person? Do you think your fat is irrelevant to who you are as a person; do you just choose to not see thru that lens no matter what? If you want to gain, do you feel that you are missing something no matter what size you are? If you loose weight (either for health or for vanity or both), do you ever feel guilty for rejecting your fatter self? Do you feel like a traitor to the cause (assuming you believe in the SA cause)? Is this an affirmation of the negative things society at large thinks about fat people? If you always identified as a fat person, then just who do you become after significant weight loss?
> 
> ...



I tend to be a person who looks for common denominators in issues and problems... I don't think the root of your questions are necessarily fat related to be honest Olwen. 

I see a bit of "the grass is greener on the other side of the fence" here... Issues relating to being fat (feeling invisible, overlooked etc...) could possibly be equated to the experience of many people of different looks and physiques. I know growing up being very thin, I felt that I had to over compensate with humor and wit to keep from being lumped in the other "skinny geek males". I felt had it not been for my quick wit which I luckily had (or developed as a result of this fear of mine...), I wouldn't have been taken seriously in all sorts of things and could easily have been as overlooked and disrespected as a fat person. 

One of the bad things about human interaction is that I think people are more friendly to people they find attractive... or people they have a "use for". By having a "use for" I mean in the busy daily lives of humans we have to pick and choose the things we do, and we will prefer to do things we like to do, but that isn't usually the case. We usually do things that we "have to" do, such as go to school, go to work, go grocery shopping, etc... For example, a heterosexual male at the hardware store will be more friendly to a female he finds attractive because he has a "use" for her... he finds her attractive, and being in her proximity gives him a cheap thrill in an otherwise hum-drum interaction with a customer. Typically you hear of "beautiful" (in the standard way our society tends to consider beauty, presumably thin...) women getting better help than fat "unattractive" women. But fat women on occasion do experience the same "overly helpful" individuals presumably males that happen to be attracted to fat females. Is this fat related? No, the common denominator is sexual attraction.

Also, what the "fat unattractive" person thinks they are missing out on, can actually be the bane of a "thin beautiful" person's existence. There is an attractive secretary that I work with who has told me this. She is older, but she is blond, voluptuous and "attractive" (by typical standards). She constantly complains of getting hit up on by guys in inappropriate situations, or when she just wants to have a regular business interaction. One of these situations she has told me about (and I've personally seen...) is that guys at auto repair places will offer some "discount" or "good deal" on tires or some sort of repair. The implication is usually that they (the mechanic or whoever) might get a date out of it. When she turns them down, or it becomes clear that there won't be a "benefit" to this guy (going back to people having a "use" for others...) these guys often get snippy and actually end up ripping her off. I've actually gone with her to have her car repaired and posed as her "boyfriend / husband" to keep from possibly running in to this type of situation. Other than possible physical limitations a fat person might have (size related, not fitting etc...) , I think many of these issues are shared by others in different ways.


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## EtobicokeFA (Oct 14, 2008)

*If you are fat, do you wonder what you would gain by being thin? 

*Occasionaly! *

Do you ask yourself if you are denying yourself something vital by being fat? 
*
Mostly not. *

If you've been thin and became fat, do you mourn your former self? 

*N/A*

If you have always been fat, do you long for a level acceptance and overall ease you think you'd get if you were thin?
*
Yes! All the time!*

Do you identify as a fat person before all else, seeing all you are thru a fat lens or do you see your primary self as someone other than a fat person? 

*Usually, I do! *

Do you think your fat is irrelevant to who you are as a person; do you just choose to not see thru that lens no matter what? 

*Well, I still fell like I have to make special accommodations for myself, so no. 
*
If you want to gain, do you feel that you are missing something no matter what size you are? 

*N/A*

If you loose weight (either for health or for vanity or both), do you ever feel guilty for rejecting your fatter self? Do you feel like a traitor to the cause (assuming you believe in the SA cause)? 

*N/A*

Is this an affirmation of the negative things society at large thinks about fat people? 

*N/A
*
If you always identified as a fat person, then just who do you become after significant weight loss? 

*N/A*

If you are an FA, do you identify yourself by the fat you love? 
*
I don't let it totally identify me, but it is a major part. *

Do you feel as tho your partner's fat is so much a part of who you are that it feel's like your own?
*
Not that much no! *

Do you feel like part of yourself dies when your partners decides to reject/loose their fat? 
*
I have to admit that deep down, yes it does! *

If so, are you able to express that loss in a way that doesn't make you feel like you are the worst person in the world?

*No, I can't ! *

If you want your partner to gain can you express that in a way that doesn't make you feel like the worst person in the world? 

*No, I can't ! *

Do you ever feel like you have to choose between your fat identity and your partner's fat identity? 
*
On occasion. *

Do you feel like you are responsible for what they think they are missing? 
*
Occasionally. *

ARE they missing something? Are YOU? 

*At the moment I don't think so! *

Do you feel awful for wanting to hold onto it? 

*Yes.


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## archivaltype (Oct 14, 2008)

*If you are fat, do you wonder what you would gain by being thin?* 

Absolutely. If I were thin, would a client take me more seriously? If I were thin, would my first (and to date, only) kiss have been in the 1st grade? If I were thin, would I be as happy as I am now? When I finally get to that point, I smile a little to myself, cause I wouldn't. 

*Do you ask yourself if you are denying yourself something vital by being fat?* 

Absolutely not. 

*If you've been thin and became fat, do you mourn your former self? *

Even though I have always been a chub, I feel I have an answer for this one. I am ridiculously lucky in life; my family is supportive and kind, I have almost never been humiliated for my size (only once in defense of a friend. I look back on it now and laugh, because it was a pretty stupid situation. anyway), and I am healthy. At one point in time however, I mourned the thin person I never was and wanted so badly to be. I stopped eating for awhile, took pictures of myself and colored over them with sharpie and so such. I thought: "I'm really a hot thin chick in this flabby case." So instead of mourning what I once was, I mourned what I wasn't.

*If you have always been fat, do you long for a level acceptance and overall ease you think you'd get if you were thin?*

Occassionally. I have learned through experience that people don't take me as seriously as other skinny people (oh well for them, I guess). While it bothers me to a degree, it certainly does not eat away at my soul. I just have to work a little bit harder to get some respect, and working hard is okay by me. 

*Do you identify as a fat person before all else, seeing all you are thru a fat lens or do you see your primary self as someone other than a fat person? *

No! It's only a part (one of my favorites, though) of who I am, not my main identity. 

*Do you think your fat is irrelevant to who you are as a person; do you just choose to not see thru that lens no matter what? *

Hmm. Well...no. It's definitely important to my identity, but it's not at the core of the matter. 

*If you want to gain, do you feel that you are missing something no matter what size you are? *

The only thing I am missing is a *man.*

*If you loose weight (either for health or for vanity or both), do you ever feel guilty for rejecting your fatter self? Do you feel like a traitor to the cause (assuming you believe in the SA cause)? *

Nope and nope. 

* Are YOU missing something? *

See above for the thing that I am missing. 

Being pretty dern new here, I really appreciate everyones answers. Where I am from, there are no real (by real, I mean open about their preference, of course) FAs, and NO ONE (that I know of) who loves themselves and their bodies. It's really wonderful to have a place like this. Seriously. I've always felt a tad weird for really loving myself and my body for what it is, and like I said before, I have been really, really, really lucky. But anyway, I've never had anyone to talk to about it before (only mah bestie, but...she doesn't really get it.) and it makes me ache to realize how many people don't have self asteem and don't accept themselves. 
Soooo Dims is a wonderful and refreshing drink of Vernor's Soda, the best and most refreshing pop on the PLANET. 
*Thank you guys!*
:bow:


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## cute_obese_girl (Oct 15, 2008)

*If you are fat, do you wonder what you would gain by being thin? 

*I don't really wonder, because I think I know exactly what I would gain by being thin. Mainly, less stares when I'm walking down the street, which would be nice. Also, I would gain more attention from the opposite sex. Not that it's necessarily a good thing. Most of the attention I'm talking about is the creepy guys, ogling, and inappropriate groping in clubs. That's not something I'm missing in my life. I prefer that men feel the need to get to know my at least a little before they decide to head down that rode.*

Do you ask yourself if you are denying yourself something vital by being fat? 
*
There is probably only one thing that is vital. I am denying myself the ability to get my pilot's license and travel. That is something I've always wanted to be able to do both in a small private plane and in large commercial jets. Not being able to fly and not being able to travel as easily as thin people means a big part of my personality and desires are not getting nurtured.*

If you've been thin and became fat, do you mourn your former self? 

*I've always considered myself fat. However, looking back at pictures there were actually a few years where I was not. While I don't mourn the fact that I used to be thinner, I do mourn the fact that I did not love and accept myself and that it led me into an ED for the better part of my life.*

If you have always been fat, do you long for a level acceptance and overall ease you think you'd get if you were thin?
*
Again, I've always considered myself fat, so I'm going to answer this one too. I suppose I don't really expect that level of acceptance from the world as a whole, but I hope that changes in the future. What I really long for is that kind of acceptance from my family. There are members of my family that I have distanced myself from because I know that all they see is fat. It really makes me wonder why that is. I've seen serial killers with their mom's standing beside them even after the horrible things they've committed and yet somehow I don't deserve that because I'm fat?!? It isn't my mom I'm speaking of in this particular case, but you get the picture.*

Do you identify as a fat person before all else, seeing all you are thru a fat lens or do you see your primary self as someone other than a fat person? 

*No I don't. Growing up I saw through these lenses in this order: Chicana (Mexican-American), woman, fat. Now I'd say the order is woman, fat, Chicana. I won't speak to the change in the other two categories since it's not really the point here, but I will say that seeing things through a fat lens is more common for me. I imagine this is for a couple of reasons. First, it has only been in the last 4 or 5 years that I've had to worry about things like will I fit in a restaurant booth/movie theatre seat/airplane seat? Second, is my time here at Dimensions has influenced me to see the world through the fat lens. For the most part, though, I would say it is the first reason. As long as I could move about the world easily enough it was not that big a part of my life. It wasn't until I became supersized that it came more into focus. I imagine that if I were to gain another 75-100lbs the fat lens would become first.*

Do you think your fat is irrelevant to who you are as a person; do you just choose to not see thru that lens no matter what? 

*I don't think it is irrelevant. As I said I always thought I was fat even if I wasn't, so it is clearly a big part of me. I don't think I choose not to see through the fat lens, but another view is more relevant to my life right now.
*
If you want to gain, do you feel that you are missing something no matter what size you are? 

*I'm not a gainer*

If you loose weight (either for health or for vanity or both), do you ever feel guilty for rejecting your fatter self? Do you feel like a traitor to the cause (assuming you believe in the SA cause)? 

*Since I've been in recovery from my ED, I've not lost a significant amount of weight, so I can't really answer this question. If I did choose to lose weight for health reasons I don't feel I would be a traitor to the cause. I know I would never be thin and who better to support the cause than someone who is fat and happy and healthy?*

Is this an affirmation of the negative things society at large thinks about fat people? 

*N/A
*
If you always identified as a fat person, then just who do you become after significant weight loss? 

*I imagine that there would be a long period of adjustment, but I think that identity of self is fluid. Just as my lenses have changed in the first 30 years, they will probably change in the next 30 whether or not weight loss/gain is involved.*

If you are an FA, do you identify yourself by the fat you love? 
*
I'm not sure I know what you're getting at specifically, but I'll go with no. I like what I like in a partner and I've made no excuses for that, nor have I made an issue of it.*

Do you feel as tho your partner's fat is so much a part of who you are that it feel's like your own?
*
In casual or even exclusive dating I'd say no. However, if I were to be in a serious long term relationship with a fat man I do believe that how he felt about his fat and how others treated him because of it would affect me too. In that way I'd say yes. *

Do you feel like part of yourself dies when your partners decides to reject/loose their fat? 
*
I wouldn't say a part of me dies, but being a SSBBW I think I would feel somewhat rejected too if my partner rejected his own fat. I'm not sure that makes sense. But basically if he thought that he was ugly and disgusting for being fat, then he must think I was ugly and disgusting also. I realize that this isn't necessarily the case, but if I were in a relationship with that man it would cross my mind.*

If so, are you able to express that loss in a way that doesn't make you feel like you are the worst person in the world?

*I think I could, because it would have to do with my own insecurities and not an inability to be attracted to the thin him that are at issue.*

If you want your partner to gain can you express that in a way that doesn't make you feel like the worst person in the world? 

*Because that is not a major goal for me I can. I'm fine with just providing encouragement.*

Do you ever feel like you have to choose between your fat identity and your partner's fat identity? 
*
I'm not sure. It seems like the majority of fat men prefer thin women, so in a way it is chosen for me in many cases.


Olwen,
I just wanted to address the question you posed about if seeing yourself through the fat lens meant you are/were cooperating with your own denigration. While this is a possibility that only you can decide, it is definitely not a given. As a person of color, does seeing myself through that lens mean that I have cooperated or contributed to the racism that can exist in our society? No, definitely not. If you in turn identified as black first would you be asking yourself the same question? Probably not. For whatever reason being fat has been a bigger influence on you than other factors. Regardless, it does not mean that you hold yourself back. In fact, I would be willing to wager that the leaders of the size/fat acceptance movement think of themselves as fat first also. It does not matter what lens you see through, only how you choose to act because of it and quite frankly, I see you as the leader, not the oppressed.


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## olwen (Oct 15, 2008)

Haunted: All your answers made me smile. I like how that the two of you are able to communicate so. Seems like you've got a lot of the tuff FA stuff figured out. I'm tempted to say you just got lucky, but I'm sure there's more to it than that. To sum it up: You rock! 

Victim: I am interested in knowing what you would choose as a primary identifier. This question - "If you are an FA, do you identify yourself by the fat you love?"...it was poorly worded. I guess, what I'm asking is, if you are an FA is that your primary identifier? I'm guessing the answer would be 'no' for many people....

Stan: ....I see what you're saying, but..my questions are about more than attraction...it's not so much about that as it is about accepting oneself as is, whether you are fat or like fatness. But I do think you have a point. Would I still question these sorts of things if I were thin? The way my brain works - Probably. So, in that case, it's all the same.

EtobicokeFA: Thanks.

Archivaltype: Welcome to Dims. You know, it may sound funny, but I think I may have mourned for that person I never was and been jealous of her even tho I don't really know who exactly she might have been. I do think a thinner me would be a lot different from me now, but to have been envious....Now, it just seems like a waste of time to have done that....

COG: I can relate to a lot of what you said here. A while ago I found a picture of myself from three years ago and I was kind of shocked to see the difference...I can't remember if I've said this already in this thread, but I'm starting to see that whether or not one is supersized might have a lot to do with how focused that fat lens is. And for me going the other way from ssbbw to bbw has made that lens less focused. And it's been a bit of a trauma adjusting.

A Fluid self...I like that. I think I have always just compartmentalized all those other parts of me - woman, black, fat, and maybe even sci-fi geek...I never really thought about how to make them flow together, but it seems to be happening now regardless, which is good I think...

This part of your post:
_I wouldn't say a part of me dies, but being a SSBBW I think I would feel somewhat rejected too if my partner rejected his own fat. I'm not sure that makes sense. But basically if he thought that he was ugly and disgusting for being fat, then he must think I was ugly and disgusting also. I realize that this isn't necessarily the case, but if I were in a relationship with that man it would cross my mind._

This makes perfect sense. This is exactly how I felt when I was with the bhm I met in college. He just had a problem with the fact that we were both fat. He would say he wasn't rejecting me, or himself, but you know, his behavior just didn't support his words. It frustrated me a lot, and after a while, I just couldn't deal with it. 

You're absolutely right about that last bit. I wouldn't be asking myself these questions if my primary lens was my blackness. I never thought about it like that. Thank you for the vote of confidence.  :bow:

I'm feelin some serious love for all you guys right now. Thanks for all the awesome answers thus far. You've all given me stuff to think about.


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## Haunted (Oct 15, 2008)

olwen said:


> Haunted: All your answers made me smile. I like how that the two of you are able to communicate so. Seems like you've got a lot of the tuff FA stuff figured out. I'm tempted to say you just got lucky, but I'm sure there's more to it than that. To sum it up: You rock!



It's Either Luck, Fate, Or Kismet, It amazes me that two people separated by such a huge distance who share so much in common can find each other despite the other few billion people in the world, the series of events that had to happen in order for us to get to this point or interesting to say the least, 

She is an amazing woman, and I am extremely Lucky to call her Mine 

I love you Misty Dawn


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 19, 2008)

Need to repost- effing typos


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 19, 2008)

but I am finally jumping in. 

I have only browsed a few other responses....I don't want the impressions/feelings of others to color/change mine in any way. I prefer to give you straight up out of my head....because I tend to think you would prefer that 

*If you are fat, do you wonder what you would gain by being thin?*

I am fat.....and I realize that being thin would put me into some special club. I witnessed/felt the difference upon some of my many diet attempts....some of those being quite successful. You are suddenly a wonderful person in the eyes of certain people if your weight goes down. That ain't me...........I am me no matter what I weigh....and hate it when others cast me in some rosy light for such a superficial, disillusioned, absurd, brain-washed reason. 

Being fat....it keeps me honest....and it keeps others honest. I have long suspected that this is the FOREMOST reason I am fat...and stay this way. The world not only sees me differently when I am fat....I can see the world for what it really is when I am fat. 

Fat is a protection......no people falsely pretending to like you. Not as many men treating you as community property and approaching you for purely sexual reasons. I also feel like it won't be as easy to hurt me physically in my bigger body...yes I know that is most likely a falsehood in itself but if others believe it, then maybe it isn't so absurd. 
I feel insulated, safe and...."true". 

*Do you ask yourself if you are denying yourself something vital by being fat?*

I hate not being able to run or walk as fast. Physical movement and exercise is important to me and I have to wonder how much I damage my health with my persistence to stay fat. 
Some people are healthy and fat....I see my health diminish and feel more tired as my weight rises. 

*If you've been thin and became fat, do you mourn your former self?*

I mourn the loss of activity- I would like being fat to be as physically easy as being thinner...but that is just not how it is. As a single parent, I also do not like worrying about fitting onto certain rides or places when my children want me to do something with them. 

*If you have always been fat, do you long for a level acceptance and overall ease you think you'd get if you were thin?*

I have not always been fat but quickly went from thin to chubby to fat and have been varying degrees of chubby to fat ever since. 
I have detailed the differences I perceive above. 

*Do you identify as a fat person before all else, seeing all you are thru a fat lens or do you see your primary self as someone other than a fat person?*

It depends on where I am, who I am with and what I am doing. The company I keep tends to determine how I feel as a fat person sometimes. 

*Do you think your fat is irrelevant to who you are as a person; do you just choose to not see thru that lens no matter what?*

It is relevant...my weight and food/diet obsession have been a huge part of my life since childhood. That being said, it is the person I am that decides to make me fat. Does that part make sense to you, Olwen? In some areas of my life, I cling to my fat....like I cling to my other addictive behaviors. 
Sure some of my fat is my lifestyle....but my lifestyle is my choice. I choose it for a reason. 

*If you want to gain, do you feel that you are missing something no matter what size you are?*

I don't want to gain. 

*If you loose weight (either for health or for vanity or both), do you ever feel guilty for rejecting your fatter self?*

No....because I choose being thinner. I am usually proud of my "transformation". I choose being thinner.....just like I choose being fat. 
Sometimes I feel as if I have no control over my fat, but when all is said and done, I really do....and I am aware of this even if I don't readily admit it. 

*Do you feel like a traitor to the cause (assuming you believe in the SA cause)?*

As long as I, or anyone else, supports this cause mentally and otherwise, how is that being a traitor? The many thin people on these boards should already prove that being thin is not a pre-requisite for supporting fat people. 

*Is this an affirmation of the negative things society at large thinks about fat people?*

My negative attitude towards society is what makes me fat, for the most part. Not vice versa....if I was so quick to believe society, then I WOULD be a thin woman right now 

*If you always identified as a fat person, then just who do you become after significant weight loss?*

I live fitting into clothes I grew out of, walking around more easily and having accomplished a goal. It's much easier to get fat again than vice versa....so I just let it ride because I have always gotten fat again.


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## Fascinita (Oct 19, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Being fat....it keeps me honest....and it keeps others honest. I have long suspected that this is the FOREMOST reason I am fat...and stay this way. The world not only sees me differently when I am fat....I can see the world for what it really is when I am fat.



Hear, hear! This is so wonderfully put... a feeling I've had, myself, but have never articulated in just these words. Thanks, GEF. :bow:


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## olwen (Oct 19, 2008)

Thanks GEF, 

Your answers make sense. I think a lot of what you say is true. It seems both fortunate and unfortunate that fat is a perfect bullshit detector. People do often show their true selves when they are around fat people. It amazes me every time. I must say tho, that I never consciously felt like my fat was protection from much of anything, but I think I can see how that would be apparent to someone who's gone from being thin to fat...


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 20, 2008)

olwen said:


> Thanks GEF,
> 
> Your answers make sense. I think a lot of what you say is true. It seems both fortunate and unfortunate that fat is a perfect bullshit detector. People do often show their true selves when they are around fat people. It amazes me every time. I must say tho, that *I never consciously felt like my fat was protection from much of anything, but I think I can see how that would be apparent to someone who's gone from being thin to fat...*



I was a petite child....I ran smaller than most people my own age. I was picked on for this sometimes.....and when I gained some weight/height in my teens, fighting back became easier. That impression from childhood probably stays with me.....so perhaps, in essence, I am saying that I feel safer and more "capable" of protecting myself at a bigger size.


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## Lovelyone (Oct 20, 2008)

olwen said:


> Thanks GEF,
> 
> Your answers make sense. I think a lot of what you say is true. It seems both fortunate and unfortunate that fat is a perfect bullshit detector. People do often show their true selves when they are around fat people. It amazes me every time. I must say tho, that I never consciously felt like my fat was protection from much of anything, but I think I can see how that would be apparent to someone who's gone from being thin to fat...


 
I was a very small child. I was so thin that my mother had me tested for a tapeworm at age 5 because my sister who was 2 years younger than I, was wearing the same size clothes that I did. I often was teased for being too thin but other kids (and some senseless parents). 

What I can say about getting bigger--at least for me--is that my fat acted as a cusion for not being or feeling loved. For a long time I thought that the bigger I got, the less anyone would want me...and the less that they wanted me, the less they could hurt me. 

The irony of it all is that the fat acted as a super conductor. The bigger I got, the more of a target I became. Food then became comfort. It was the only thing that made me feel good, so I relied on it often and then it all became intertwined and a vicious cycle was started. I didnt feel loved, I ate, got bigger, people commented rudely and cruelly, it made me feel unloved, so I ate again. 

I realize my behavior NOW, but at the time all that made sense to me. At my age, being fat is my choice.


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## olwen (Oct 20, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I was a petite child....I ran smaller than most people my own age. I was picked on for this sometimes.....and when I gained some weight/height in my teens, fighting back became easier. That impression from childhood probably stays with me.....so perhaps, in essence, I am saying that I feel safer and more "capable" of protecting myself at a bigger size.



What you say makes sense. I get this, I just never gave it much thought I guess. I'd just assume the smaller kid would have to use his size to his advantage and either fight smart or fight dirty, kind of like the way a dwarf or a kender or a halfling in a fantasy story would. I realize that isn't the point, but you know, it came to mind. And I probably read too much sci-fi.



Lovelyone said:


> I was a very small child. I was so thin that my mother had me tested for a tapeworm at age 5 because my sister who was 2 years younger than I, was wearing the same size clothes that I did. I often was teased for being too thin but other kids (and some senseless parents).
> 
> *What I can say about getting bigger--at least for me--is that my fat acted as a cusion for not being or feeling loved. For a long time I thought that the bigger I got, the less anyone would want me...and the less that they wanted me, the less they could hurt me. *
> 
> ...



I'm not quite sure this part makes sense to me. I see what you're saying, but it just seems strange to me....

You know, I hear people say what you're saying about food being a comfort, and that is something I don't get either. I feel like food has caused me nothing but anxiety for most of my life. How can something that causes so much stress be comforting? Am I alone in that thinking?


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 20, 2008)

olwen said:


> What you say makes sense. I get this, I just never gave it much thought I guess. I'd just assume the smaller kid would have to use his size to his advantage and either fight smart or fight dirty, kind of like the way a dwarf or a kender or a halfling in a fantasy story would. I realize that isn't the point, but you know, it came to mind. And I probably read too much sci-fi.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Olwen....no you are not alone. 

This quote is from my Myspace blog...which is a quote from a post I made over on the weight board probably close to two years ago. 

Your question brought it to mind. 





> It's a new day, updated page so how about a new blog .... about an old subject with me. This is a hard one but here it is- I originally posted this on Dims but thought it could make for a good blog topic. Please be kind
> 
> Let's talk about addiciton...my addiction. It's pretty much the same as any addiction. I'm sure the alcoholic that is in love with a bottle of gin hates it just as much for all the control it seems to have over his life.
> 
> ...


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## olwen (Oct 20, 2008)

That's interesting GEF. That made me think of the one time I remember consciously trying to use food for comfort. I don't remember what I was upset about, but I do remember eating half an entire cheese cake. After that I almost threw up. I didn't eat cheese cake for a year after that. That being said, I do like to have chicken rice soup when I have a cold. I make it extra spicy so my nose will open up.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 20, 2008)

olwen said:


> That's interesting GEF. That made me think of the one time I remember consciously trying to use food for comfort. I don't remember what I was upset about, but I do remember eating half an entire cheese cake. After that I almost threw up. I didn't eat cheese cake for a year after that. That being said, I do like to have chicken rice soup when I have a cold. I make it extra spicy so my nose will open up.



Lol Olwen...the soup thing sounds quite "normal" to me....something I strive for each and every day


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## southernfa (Oct 21, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Lol Olwen...the soup thing sounds quite "normal" to me....something I strive for each and every day



there is always hope. I am married to an ex-OE Anon lady. The things you describe bring back difficult memories from the early days. The good news is that for her, being in a 'stable' relationship and not living alone gave her the basis from which to beat the thing and it is no longer an issue for all intents and purposes.


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