# Morbidly Obese?



## BeaBea (Jun 16, 2008)

Hi Folks,

I recently spoke at a Medical Conference called 'Care and Treatment of the Morbidly Obese' After I gave my usual speech and dealt with the questions I ended by making a plea to the Medical professions to stop using this term.

Personally I find it very offensive. Its literal translation is 'dead fat' and even if it once started as a valid diagnosis its now used as a moral judgement. If you are big it gives you an excuse to give up on your own healthcare and if you're smaller it gives you a reason to deny the best care, support and dignity to your patient. It also suggests we are close to death when all the Supersized people I know are all busy squeezing every ounce of fun and enjoyment out of their lives in every way they can.

Now I did point out to the Conference that all of the views I give are my own and that I'm not in any way elected as a Spokesperson, but I'd be very interested in your thoughts. 

I'm asking specifically about the least offensive term to be used in a medical sense so I'm afraid choices such as 'Hot' didn't make the poll  If you decide to answer 'None of the Above' can you let me know which term you do prefer?

Thanks in advance
Tracey


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## amber83 (Jun 16, 2008)

I think 'overweight' bothers me the least. 

I agree with morbidly obese. It seems a bit overkill....like at any moment I could keel over because I am chunky. Contrary to popular belief, I'm NOT made of Crisco, transfats and cheetos.


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## Shosh (Jun 16, 2008)

Hi Tracy,

I remember feeling really upset when my doctor kept referring to me as being "Grossly Overweight". I realize that it is a clinical term, but it made me feel like I was gross and dirty and sloppy etc. It was horrible.
I chose heavy in the poll meanwhile.


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## mango (Jun 16, 2008)

*Morbidly Obese eh???



How about.... Abundantly Sexy!


*


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jun 16, 2008)

Here in Oklahoma we use the term "heavy-set", which I find peculiarly obnoxious.


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## Tooz (Jun 16, 2008)

I hate pretty much everything except "fat". "Obese" and any variation of the word anger me greatly.


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## CAMellie (Jun 16, 2008)

I chose Fat. It's what I am. The word fat isn't the boogeyman that some people have made it out to be. IMHO


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## sunnie1653 (Jun 16, 2008)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Here in Oklahoma we use the term "heavy-set", which I find peculiarly obnoxious.



Hate it. Hate hate hate.

I never heard the term until I moved here! And I hear it ALL. THE. TIME!!!!! UGH!!!!

I hate "morbidly obese" or even the word obese in general, it sounds like a terminal disease.

Overweight. Fat. Whatever. Just not obese, seriously. The word just gives me the heebiejeebies. I don't know why. LOL!


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## BothGunsBlazing (Jun 16, 2008)

Hm, at my grandmothers nursing home they would call overweight people 

Person of Size <-- I actually didn't mind that until .. 

translates to POS when you shorten it

which makes for a lot of confused people when you say "oh yeah doctor, she is a POS, so you should keep that in mind"

Morbidly Obese is a feckin' terrible term though. Hate it! 

Grossly overweight too.

MORBID. GROSS.

What very sensitive terms! I know so many people who love the doctor and dread it enough without having to be refered to as MORBID or GROSS ..bleh! Hate that stuff!

Horizontally gifted should be the proper term. Sounds like it's a gift. Everyone likes presents!

Although, I don't mind heavy because it allows me to respond with "There's that word again; "heavy". Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the earth's gravitational pull? 

which always leads to what?!

I am going to stop typing now.


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## imfree (Jun 16, 2008)

"Profoundly obese", in my opinion, would be 
OK as a medical term. "Morbid obesity" has 
even been misused to the point of listing 
it as cause of death.


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## liz (di-va) (Jun 16, 2008)

I've always hated "morbidly obese," for all the reasons stated. I feel like a non-person when that term is bandied about...less than an animal. Immediately makes me think they don't care if I live or die.

Hate "obese" too. I get no roundabout/perverse empowered thrill from reclaiming that term...I just hate it. 

I can't stand "overweight" either, frankly; don't care if I'm being sensitive or PC. Over what fucking weight.

"Fat" is cool. I'm fat .

I can understand how there is a need, procedurally, for terminology. But most of the existing terms have horrible connotations; point immediately to a direction for care that makes it clear fat folk are wrong/bad/compromised/dying/need to be fixed before they can be cared for.


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## Carl1h (Jun 16, 2008)

My vote is Super Fat, because it describes something beyond ordinary fatness and it would help me explain the tights and cape I wear under my clothes.


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## bexy (Jun 16, 2008)

i hate morbidly obese. why is it fatties are the only group to in such a way? why even obese. why not just fat, big, heavy? i dont mind those.


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## Sandie S-R (Jun 16, 2008)

Overweight? Nope. It suggests that there is a set weight standard that we should all be, and I some how am over that. My husband is 6'8". We don't call him "over-height", he is just tall.

Morbid obesity? Nope. Sounds like I have a disease that needs curing. 

Heavy, heavy-set, large? Naw, they don't cut it either. They are just weird, and don't sound right.

Having been involved in fat acceptance for so long, I still think fat is the appropriate word. It is just the right word for describing my body. We don't place the moral judgment on any other adjective. Tall? Thin? Blonde? Short? Brunette? No, they are taken at face value. So by using the word and owning it, it has no power to hurt.


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## ashmamma84 (Jun 16, 2008)

The option that is just a little out of touch is "patient with complex needs"...I think it assumes a whole lot on the mobility/able bodiness (don't think that's a word, but...) of the fat person. 

I prefer fat as well...I remember having an ultrasound for PCOS about a year ago and one of the techs told me, matter of factly, it was because of my morbid obesity that I needed to be checked out. Uh, my obesity isn't morbid...at all. In fact, it's quite delightful.


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## Tina (Jun 16, 2008)

I like "fat." Short, accurate and to the point.

I agree with you so completely, Tracey, and think they need to purge "morbidly obese" from the medical lexicon.


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## Carol W. (Jun 16, 2008)

Unfortunately, I can't control how medical staff refers to me, but I'll be damned if I will EVER refer to myself as "morbidly obese". Or obese. Or overweight. Call me fat. I'm fat. Or very fat, if you must. Or supersized. I have no problem with that one......Medical staff always looks so uncomfortable when I refer to myself as "fat", when to me, the words "morbid" and "obese", which they seem to have NO problem tossing around, are so much uglier!


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## SocialbFly (Jun 16, 2008)

Sandie S-R said:


> Overweight? Nope. It suggests that there is a set weight standard that we should all be, and I some how am over that. My husband is 6'8". We don't call him "over-height", he is just tall.
> 
> Morbid obesity? Nope. Sounds like I have a disease that needs curing.
> 
> ...




i sooo agreee with you, but i gotta say, people would have issue with no matter what word you chose...medicine, it is a battle field...some places cant use the word cow anymore (computer on wheels=cow) cause some patient thought they were talking about them...i much prefer hag or wait, that is another thread....

anyway, i prefer fat, but it doesnt matter, i will be morbidly obese (f*ck i hate that word) til the day i croak...


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## SocialbFly (Jun 16, 2008)

ashmamma84 said:


> The option that is just a little out of touch is "patient with complex needs"...I think it assumes a whole lot on the mobility/able bodiness (don't think that's a word, but...) of the fat person.
> 
> I prefer fat as well...I remember having an ultrasound for PCOS about a year ago and one of the techs told me, matter of factly, it was because of my morbid obesity that I needed to be checked out. Uh, my obesity isn't morbid...at all. In fact, it's quite delightful.



i love that quote...love love love it, Ash, i would rep you, but the bastard rep gods wont let me...hugs


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## Blockierer (Jun 16, 2008)

liz (di-va) said:


> .
> "Fat" is cool. I'm fat .



"Fat" is hot. I'm a fat admirer . I know what is hot. 



Tina said:


> I like "fat." Short, accurate and to the point.
> .


Of course "fat" that's it.


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## imfree (Jun 16, 2008)

SocialbFly said:


> i love that quote...love love love it, Ash, i would rep you, but the bastard rep gods wont let me...hugs



I got her for you, SocialbFly.


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## southernfa (Jun 16, 2008)

Hmm, I should probably keep my trap shut on this one but shouldn't a "medical description" be first and foremost, clinically accurate? 

I'm not remotely qualified to comment on whether "morbidly obese" is clinically accurate, I suspect that is a matter of healthy debate. But presumably, someone, somewhere, thought it was an accurate description and coined the term and until it can be reasonably overturned on good medical science grounds, it will probably endure.

I think it is an ugly, inherently loaded term and may well have been intended from the outset to attempt to scare patients into weightloss. Which suggests to me that the originators weren't very good psychologists.

But I also think that it is important to remain grounded in reality and if, if, the term is accurate; then that simple fact is far more important than how we individually feel about it. In which case, to conceal it's rather frightening meaning behind a desire for inoffensiveness is perhaps something of an insult to our maturity.


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## BeaBea (Jun 16, 2008)

southernfa said:


> Hmm, I should probably keep my trap shut on this one but shouldn't a "medical description" be first and foremost, clinically accurate?



While I see your point I'm afraid I dont think it is clinically accurate for most of us. Even if, in the medical opinion of the person using it, it IS accurate I still feel it is staggeringly insensitive and likely to do irreparable harm to the Patient/Dr relationship.

This did come up at the Conference and I asked the delegates if they were happy using the term for someone with an eating disorder which was likely to damage their life expectancy. A few said yes. When I then asked them if they had ever used, or had heard used, the term 'Morbidly Anorexic' not one of them said yes...

For me that indicates the huge double standard that is at work when treating larger patients and is the reason why I speak out so strongly against it. 

Tracey xx


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## stan_der_man (Jun 16, 2008)

I think "fat" is probably the best word. The medical community can always add additional adjectives to it like "slightly" or "very" or whatever, to further describe whatever they need to describe.

I agree BeaBea, "Morbid Obesity" seems like such a biased term. Maybe if "obese" was simply used to describe being "very fat" without the negative connotation it now seems to carry, it wouldn't be such a bad word.


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## southernfa (Jun 16, 2008)

BeaBea said:


> This did come up at the Conference and I asked the delegates if they were happy using the term for someone with an eating disorder which was likely to damage their life expectancy. A few said yes. When I then asked them if they had ever used, or had heard used, the term 'Morbidly Anorexic' not one of them said yes...



Good point. But perhaps that suggests that Anorexia already carries the connotation of high-risk morbidity ie there is no such thing as non-morbid anorexia, whereas there could be such as thing as non-morbid obesity?

In which case, patients who are termed morbidly obese when they are clinically non-morbidly obese might have a reason to feel offended but those who are clinically morbidly obese (if there is such a thing) might be better off to face up to it as best they can.

On, the other hand, perhaps Anorexia should be defaulted to Morbid status. It certainly seems to deserve it from a layman's perspective.

I don't know. As I said it's not my field at all; I just have real reservations about renaming things to avoid social stigma. It doesn't seem to work because the stigma migrates to the new terminology in a flash and meanwhile the real meaning becomes obfuscated.

IMHO


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## BeaBea (Jun 16, 2008)

southernfa said:


> ... but those who are clinically morbidly obese (if there is such a thing) might be better off to face up to it as best they can.



Do you really think that anyone who is Supersize is unaware of their weight and the risks attached? Seriously?!?


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## ThikJerseyChik (Jun 16, 2008)

Personally, I think all of the terms above have been given a bad rap - Fat, Overweight, Obese, Morbidly Obese, Person of size ....society LOVES to label it up...and I HATE IT!

I have been 'thick' for years...thats my take on it.

Chik


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## southernfa (Jun 16, 2008)

BeaBea said:


> Do you really think that anyone who is Supersize is unaware of their weight and the risks attached? Seriously?!?



I don't know. I just don't have enough first hand knowledge or expertise to have a useful opinion. As you infer, it would seem counter-intuitive to suggest that most of those who are supersized are unaware of the relevant health risks. 

Conversely, we do hear of cases in the popular media that would seem to suggest that self-delusion and other psychological factors may sometimes be at play. One that springs to mind was an amazingly big fellow who was shown pretty much clearing a table of greasies single-handed and shortly after stoutly declaring to all that he ate like a bird and couldn't understand how he got so big. An extreme case of psychological imbalance and not at all the norm.

And at the risk of being obnoxious (which isn't my intent); over the years I have seen a number of instances on these boards whereby some poor soul meets an untimely end and someone else will take the position that "they didn't die of [morbid] obesity, they died of xyz [obesity-related] disease". Which may be technically correct. It may also be avoidance in some degree.

I am actually on your side though; I don't think insulting or scaring people is at all useful especially in a doctor/patient relationship. If it were possible to invent a technically accurate term that described the medical condition without carrying social connotations I would be all for it.

But I think the problem is not the terminology; it is the inclination of people, individually and collectively, to stigmatise.


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## AnnMarie (Jun 16, 2008)

I like fat best, but I don't think it's clinical.... it doesn't really state a degree of weight.... since in the vernacular it's used for everyone from 150lbs to 800+.... Obese seems more clinical to me, so I picked that based on that alone. 

If I thought fat could actually have a technical medical range or "over xxxlbs or over XX% body fat, etc" type of meaning, then fat would definitely be the way to go.


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## marlowegarp (Jun 16, 2008)

Maybe a military-style code from Alpha to Epsilon, like in Brave New World. "You, sir, are Delta Portly."


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## Carl1h (Jun 16, 2008)

marlowegarp said:


> Maybe a military-style code from Alpha to Epsilon, like in Brave New World. "You, sir, are Delta Portly."



That sounds good, can I change my vote?


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## exile in thighville (Jun 16, 2008)

people tend to conflate the terms "fat" and "morbidly retarded." but "morbidly retarded" is the one you use to describe the person modifying the obese, not the actual fatty in question. it's a common mistake.


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## moore2me (Jun 16, 2008)

BeaBea said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> I recently spoke at a Medical Conference called 'Care and Treatment of the Morbidly Obese' After I gave my usual speech and dealt with the questions I ended by making a plea to the Medical professions to stop using this term.
> 
> ...



BeaBea,

Morbid has another meaning besides dead. To an epidemiologist, *morbid* means pertaining to disease or inducing disease. And to introduce another related word, *morbidity* means how many morbid persons or sick persons there are in a community or how much disease is in a community. 

Setting aside the argument about fat being a "disease" for a moment, morbidity in our civilization (such as Ebola), or morbidity in past civilizations (the Black Death), or future morbidity (Bird Flu in humans?) is something many of us find absolutely fascinating. 

In the US, the lead agency IMHO dealing with morbidity is the CDC, who happens to publish a *MMWR* - which I would rather read than People magazine. In fact, I have been reading it since the 80's. Here is the link for the report. I have attached a copy of the title below.
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/weekcvol.html

And, just to let everyone know, fat is definitely not the only condition in thier radar as being morbid. Below are just a smattering of a few* MMWR *article titles from the past months:

All Pneumoconiosis: Morbidity

Sexually Transmitted Disease Morbidity Request

Work-Related Lung Disease Asthma: Morbidity.

Respiratory Disease in Agricultural Workers: Mortality and Morbidity Statistics.

Maternal and Infant Health: Maternal Morbidity in a Managed Care Setting

Strategies for Reducing Morbidity and Mortality from Diabetes


Demographic Differences in Notifiable Infectious Disease Morbidity -- United States, 1992-1994


Hurricane-Related Morbidity and Mortality

The Magnitude of Maternal Morbidity During Labor and Delivery

View attachment mmwr-logo-b.gif


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## anybodys (Jun 16, 2008)

amber83 said:


> I think 'overweight' bothers me the least.
> 
> I agree with morbidly obese. It seems a bit overkill....like at any moment I could keel over because I am chunky. Contrary to popular belief, I'm NOT made of Crisco, transfats and cheetos.



I was thinking the other day about how people trying to be politically correct use "overweight" and "fat" is considered rude or something, but really, "fat" is relatively objective... "overweight," to me, sounds like inherently a judgment. OVER-weight implies "_too_ heavy," i.e., not acceptable.


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## exile in thighville (Jun 16, 2008)

i'm not big on political correctness, but i agree...overweight is a shitty word for a NORM in my country. more like overFUN


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## Shosh (Jun 17, 2008)

exile in thighville said:


> i'm not big on political correctness, but i agree...overweight is a shitty word for a NORM in my country. more like overFUN



Well I was grossly overweight according to my doc


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## Ernest Nagel (Jun 17, 2008)

Well, if anyone's interested in a mathematically accurate term that is non-judgmental, far softer sounding and still describes the condition objectively I'd offer 3 Sigma or Sigma 3 weight. People in the current classification "morbidly obese" are statistically contained within the set referred to as the 3rd standard deviation above the mean. It's just one end of a normal or "standard" distribution, which is going to exist for most human data. The lower case Greek letter _sigma_ is the symbol for standard deviation. Yeah, I know, it'll never catch on. Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. Why can't I bore myself to sleep? >yawwn< :blink:


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## BothGunsBlazing (Jun 17, 2008)

exile in thighville said:


> people tend to conflate the terms "fat" and "morbidly retarded." but "morbidly retarded" is the one you use to describe the person modifying the obese, not the actual fatty in question. it's a common mistake.



Is it possible to be morbidly awesome? like terminally amazing? 

That'd rock.


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## Miss Vickie (Jun 17, 2008)

What I've noticed among the providers and nurses where I work is that we use terms like "high BMI" rather than the word obesity -- I suspect because many of us hate that word. When giving report, I'll use the word "big" because in mixed company many of the average sized nurses I work with don't get that "fat" isn't an insult. So, rather than try to have a huge SA discussion when I have 90 seconds to give report on a patient, I'll use the BMI thing or just say "big" or "fluffy". But the ONLY reason I mention a patient's size is if it relates to something going on related to their care. Otherwise, there's usually more than enough to share without bringing someone's weight into it.

But in my personal life? I use the term fat when talking to my doctors and also with my friends (many of whom are nurses I work with). I despise the word "obesity" and especially "morbid obesity". Ugh.


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## southernfa (Jun 17, 2008)

Miss Vickie said:


> What I've noticed among the providers and nurses where I work is that we use terms like "high BMI" rather than the word obesity --



Well, that makes sense but how do you then differentiate in a written report between someone who is fat versus a bodybuilder? Genuine question, I'm curious. And probably obtuse


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## Miss Vickie (Jun 17, 2008)

southernfa said:


> Well, that makes sense but how do you then differentiate in a written report between someone who is fat versus a bodybuilder? Genuine question, I'm curious. And probably obtuse



You probably can't very easily but since I work in L&D in Alaska and therefore care largely for Native Alaskan women, I've yet to see a body builder who's nine months pregnant and in active labor.  You make a great point, though, and one of the many reasons that the BMI is kind of a silly predictor of health. I'm noticing lots more docs using people's abdominal girth, instead, when it comes to discussing risk factors for heart disease and diabetes. Obviously in pregnancy, yet again, abdominal girth is less than predictive, except that a nice big belly usually means a nice big baby.


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## olwen (Jun 17, 2008)

I started to click "fat" but chose "none of the above." I'm not sure there is a way to choose a non-offensive term because it seems it would eventually become offensive. I do believe terms like "overweight" or "morbidly obese" are horrible terms and completely offensive. I cringe when I read or hear them. "Fat" seems accurate but it encompasses so many degrees of fatness that it just wouldn't be a satisfactory descriptor to many medical professionals. 

"Patients of size" seems benign but then again it also seems offensive. I just don't have any good suggestions here...


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## Zoom (Jun 17, 2008)

I think people should not be labeled according to their size.

But, but, but, you ask, what are you supposed to CALL them to distinguish them from thinner people?

People.


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## prettysteve (Jun 17, 2008)

I Hate the term "Morbidly Obese!Even though I am slim & trim myself I think of women that have a few extra pounds as "Large-and-incharge". Big ladies really rock & rule the world.:smitten:


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## Shosh (Jun 17, 2008)

prettysteve said:


> I Hate the term "Morbidly Obese!Even though I am slim & trim myself I think of women that have a few extra pounds as "Large-and-incharge". Big ladies really rock & rule the world.:smitten:



You are an angel Steve.

Meanwhile I think Queen Raqui's mag has that title.


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## BeaBea (Jun 17, 2008)

moore2me said:


> Morbid has another meaning besides dead. To an epidemiologist, *morbid* means pertaining to disease or inducing disease. And to introduce another related word, *morbidity* means how many morbid persons or sick persons there are in a community or how much disease is in a community.
> 
> In the US, the lead agency IMHO dealing with morbidity is the CDC, who happens to publish a *MMWR* - which I would rather read than People magazine. In fact, I have been reading it since the 80's. Here is the link for the report. I have attached a copy of the title below.
> http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/weekcvol.html
> ...



Hi Moore2me,

I do understand that the words Morbid and Morbidity have different meanings and that some are completely valid. But calculating the morbidity statistics of a disease or a condition amongst a population is one thing and having the term used in a personal sense is quite another. 

If I might suggest, it's the same sort of difference between being told that statistically one in three people in the Western world die of cancer - and being told that YOU are about to die of cancer. 

Btw - you do some -scary- bed time reading! Lol

Tracey


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## exile in thighville (Jun 17, 2008)

Susannah said:


> Well I was grossly overweight according to my doc



you mean grossly HOT


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## 1300 Class (Jun 17, 2008)

Its all about context in my opinion. Morbid and grossly are inherently negative in usage, nothing will change that. However a word like fat can be used in a very negative context, no matter how positive its tried to be accepted.


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## thatgirl08 (Jun 17, 2008)

I guess I prefer fat, although I can't really imagine anyone in the medical field using that term towards a patient. I don't mind overweight. I hate obese though. I don't know, something about that word is just, icky. And morbidly obese is even worse.


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## 1300 Class (Jun 17, 2008)

Makes it sound like your on deaths door or something.


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## amhuk (Jun 17, 2008)

I'm hoping this might clear things up a little.

The term 'morbid obesity' _should_ refer to people who have serious medical complications from being fat/overweight/whatever. And this shouldn't simply be something associated with 'obesity' (such as hypertension, diabetes, sleep apnoea etc.) but something demonstrably caused by being overweight. Examples I have seen include intractable skin infections, respiratory failure, bone fractures, and often a combination of these.

Usually such people are profoundly overweight, but I agree that profoundly overweight people shouldn't be called morbidly obese in the absence of such complications. However, I have seen the term used (wrongly) out of this context.

To second what someone said, being anorexic _implies_ morbidity, whereas simply being obese/overweight/fat doesn't. Part of the reason why obesity gets much more media coverage than anorexia is simply because it is much more common, and therefore a bigger (ahem) public health problem.

I'm not defending the use of the term, but I do thing euphemising is not helpful as it leads to misunderstandings, particularly amongst healthcare professionals.

I don't think I would ever say to someone, 'you are morbidly obese!'; I usually say, 'you're carrying a bit too much weight.' I hope this is inoffensive, but you can't please everone!

amh.


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## B00TS (Jun 19, 2008)

I went for large. It is accurate and doesn't carry the societally negative associations that fat or obese does.

Also I couldn't agree more with your feelings about the term morbidly obese !


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## BeaBea (Jun 19, 2008)

amhuk said:


> I'm hoping this might clear things up a little.



Hi,

Thank you for your post, can I ask if you are answering from a professional medical perspective and if so (and if you want to share) what your qualifications are?

I appreciate that me asking in this way might appear hostile or combative but I'm not. I'm just genuinely interested, and, ah, incurably nosey! By all means reply by PM if you'd rather not broadcast your reply.

Many Thanks
Tracey


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## Duniwin (Jun 19, 2008)

Ernest Nagel said:


> Well, if anyone's interested in a mathematically accurate term that is non-judgmental, far softer sounding and still describes the condition objectively I'd offer 3 Sigma or Sigma 3 weight. People in the current classification "morbidly obese" are statistically contained within the set referred to as the 3rd standard deviation above the mean. It's just one end of a normal or "standard" distribution, which is going to exist for most human data. The lower case Greek letter _sigma_ is the symbol for standard deviation. Yeah, I know, it'll never catch on. Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. Why can't I bore myself to sleep? >yawwn< :blink:



Hooray for pure mathematics! I agree that this is the most scientific and professional way to describe fat/weight, but you're right, it wouldn't catch on.
That is, it won't catch on unless the average person has a clear understanding of probability and understand what a normal distribution and standard devaition are.

<sigh>

Ah, well... a nerd can dream can't he?

_Tangent: I think I'll start using "Sigma n" designators to describe things that I observe to be above average of varying degree._

I picked "fat" as the poll option. I'd like to quote George Carlin here:



> Let's get to some of these other non-victims. You probably noticed, elsewhere I used the word fat. I used that word because that's what fat people are. They're fat. They're not large; they're not stout, chunky, hefty, or plump. And they're not big-boned. Dinosaurs are big-boned. These people are not necessarily obese, either. Obese is a medical term. And they're not overweight. Overweight implies there is some correct weight. There is no correct weight. Heavy is also a misleading term. An aircraft carrier is heavy; it's not fat. Only people are fat, and that's what fat people are. They're fat. I offer no apology for this. It is not intended as criticism or insult. It is simply descriptive language. I don't like euphemisms. Euphemisms are a form of lying. Fat people are not gravitationally disadvantaged. They're fat. I prefer seeing things the way they are, not the way some people wish they were.


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## amhuk (Jun 19, 2008)

BeaBea said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thank you for your post, can I ask if you are answering from a professional medical perspective and if so (and if you want to share) what your qualifications are?



Oh dear, my opening line looks horribly patronizing now....

I'm a practising physician (I'd rather not be more specific in public!); I see a lot of fat people in the course of my work, for various reasons. Most of them are not very happy about being fat, or at least about having to see a doctor because of it, however indirectly. Hence I usually have to tread a little carefully.

The word 'obese' is, as someone has already said, a euphemism itself, coming (I think) from the Latin _obesus_ for 'fat' or 'plump'. Like it or not, it's the medically accepted lingo. If one doctor were to write to another about a patient, 'This very fat man...,' and he were to get hold of the letter... well, I'd hate to have to defend that in court! We're safer sticking to the official terms.

amh


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## moore2me (Jun 19, 2008)

Duniwin said:


> Hooray for pure mathematics! I agree that this is the most scientific and professional way to describe fat/weight, but you're right, it wouldn't catch on.
> That is, it won't catch on unless the average person has a clear understanding of probability and understand what a normal distribution and standard devaition are.
> 
> <sigh>
> ...



*Moore's comments in red:
First, let me say George Carlin used to be a very funny guy. However, he has written some very hateful things about fat people too. I have gotten to the point where I not longer care to listen to his material due to the hatemonger attitude he has developed as of late.*

Let's get to some of these other non-victims. You probably noticed, elsewhere I used the word fat. I used that word because that's what fat people are. They're fat. They're not large; they're not stout, chunky, hefty, or plump. And they're not big-boned. Dinosaurs are big-boned. 

*Not all dinosaurs are big boned. There are dinosaur mice, little birds & fish. Many not bigger than todays specimens.*

These people are not necessarily obese, either. Obese is a medical term. And they're not overweight. Overweight implies there is some correct weight. There is no correct weight. 

*Yes, there is. There are correct weights for products manufactured (oz of medicine) and correct weight for gallon of water (8 lbs). *

Heavy is also a misleading term. An aircraft carrier is heavy; it's not fat. Only people are fat, 

*I disagree - there are fat dogs & cats, fat mice & rats, and other animals can be fat. There are fat paychecks, fat heads, and fat that we cook with such as bacon fat and fat we make soap with by rendering.*

and that's what fat people are. They're fat. I offer no apology for this. It is not intended as criticism or insult. *Liar.*

It is simply descriptive language. I don't like euphemisms. Euphemisms are a form of lying. Fat people are not gravitationally disadvantaged. 

*Yes we are gravitationally challenged. I have been fighting mean old Mr. Gravity my whole life. And several times, Mr. Gravity has kicked my butt. Mean Old Mr. Gravity (now that I'm 56) has also begun to make things that did not used to droop on my body, hang down, lower & lower . . . . . . .*

They're fat. I prefer seeing things the way they are, not the way some people wish they were.


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## Jane (Jun 20, 2008)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Here in Oklahoma we use the term "heavy-set", which I find peculiarly obnoxious.



I use "big girl." However, I prefer "fat."

I also use the terms "morbidly stupid" and for doctors "morbidly obtuse" if they insist on using a term. How about "more than a hundred pounds over your weight as set by idiots at insurance companies on their actuary tables." Has a nice ring to it, and it wouldn't be said very often.


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## MadWeePete (Jun 21, 2008)

I do not like any of the terms. The simple reason being that most of the time I think the people that fit into the categories are misrepresented. You cannot simply use something like BMI or whatever to define how healthy someone is. 

If you consider someone like this girl http://flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/1559653551/in/set-72157602199008819/ it just proves how badly defined the theory is. I would say that is perfectly healthy looking.

I guess there is a point on the more extreme side of the definitions that in general people can be seen as XXXXXX. It depends on whether you are trying to be playful or come up with some medically accepted term. I also think that within the region chosen there are many sub-regions and that each would (or should) have it's own definition of size.


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## imfree (Jun 21, 2008)

MadWeePete said:


> I do not like any of the terms. The simple reason being that most of the time I think the people that fit into the categories are misrepresented. You cannot simply use something like BMI or whatever to define how healthy someone is.
> 
> If you consider someone like this girl http://flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/1559653551/in/set-72157602199008819/ it just proves how badly defined the theory is. I would say that is perfectly healthy looking.
> 
> I guess there is a point on the more extreme side of the definitions that in general people can be seen as XXXXXX. It depends on whether you are trying to be playful or come up with some medically accepted term. I also think that within the region chosen there are many sub-regions and that each would (or should) have it's own definition of size.



The best picture of all, was the domestic cat, which, at 
1'0" tall, 12 lbs, has a "morbidly obese" BMI of 58!


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## squidge dumpling (Jun 23, 2008)

I hate the words morbidly obese as the doctors stuck that label on me years ago lol, but i dont mind the word fat as that is what i am and im happy to be so


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## moore2me (Jun 23, 2008)

moore2me said:


> First, let me say George Carlin used to be a very funny guy. However, he has written some very hateful things about fat people too. I have gotten to the point where I not longer care to listen to his material due to the hatemonger attitude he has developed as of late.



First let me say I don't usually quote myself, but I don't like to speak ill of the dead either. *George Carlin died yesterday* of heart failure, so in my book this pretty much closes the case on his file. May he rest in peace. He was very funny in his younger days and was a pioneer in stand-up comedy for my generation.


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## mergirl (Jul 1, 2008)

i voted "fat" though i dont think the word has been reclaimed so much in the UK as it has in America. I really really really HATE the term "morbidly obese"! My partner said that about herself a few weeks ago and i covered my ears and said "gah! i hate those words so much" so now she winds me up and says it all the time.. sometimes even adding the prefix "super" which actually makes it seem more hero like! She actually also said the word "hefty" which made me laugh because its kinna cute and reminds me of hairspray and Mr Pinkies hefty hideaway shop.. my humour works in weird ways though..
As for the term morbidly obese it has so many horrible conotations.. plus you never hear posh spice being refered to as "morbidly skinny"..
i dont even like the word "obese" it sounds ugly and flooppily.. its also really stupid to catogorise people into weight like they are boxers.. 

xmer


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## Elfcat (Jul 1, 2008)

I chose none of the above because what comes to my mind wasn't on there, which is "highly adipose". If you look in the dictionary, the etymology of "obese" does not refer to fat, but to eating, and therefore technically obesity should only be diagnosed in someone who has a constant or near-constant urge to eat, and there are some genetic conditions of which this is a characteristic.

"Adipose", by contrast, does refer to fat, because the adipose layer of the skin is where visible fat is located, and so this term is far more of an equivalent to, say, muscular.


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## olwen (Jul 2, 2008)

Elfcat said:


> I chose none of the above because what comes to my mind wasn't on there, which is "highly adipose". If you look in the dictionary, the etymology of "obese" does not refer to fat, but to eating, and therefore technically obesity should only be diagnosed in someone who has a constant or near-constant urge to eat, and there are some genetic conditions of which this is a characteristic.
> 
> "Adipose", by contrast, does refer to fat, because the adipose layer of the skin is where visible fat is located, and so this term is far more of an equivalent to, say, muscular.



That actually makes pretty good sense to me, tho I'd wonder how long before it becomes stigmatized....I'd think that just because a doctor would use that word that I'd hate it. I just wouldn't want to hear anything come out of a doctor's mouth that would be any kind of descriptor about my fat accurate or no. I just don't want to hear it. What if we just used pictures or signs - but no fruit. That actually kinda weirds me out to hear people describe me as a piece of fruit. I don't wanna be an apple or a pear or a banana or anything like that, just fat will do thanks.


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## Colonial Warrior (Oct 6, 2018)

I really hate the term 'morbid'. It may make feel us as some kind of aliens!!!


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## Colonial Warrior (Oct 6, 2018)

And also, the term 'morbid obesity' it's a sentence to social isolation!!!


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## agouderia (Oct 7, 2018)

Colonial Warrior said:


> I really hate the term 'morbid'. It may make feel us as some kind of aliens!!!



I don't actually mind the term that much. 

Outside of English, the use of the adjective is more often used with other connatations.
In every Italian supermarket you will see dozens of package with some "morbidi" cookies - which means nothing else than soft and juicy.
In French and even more so in German morbid is mostly used in the figurative sense as synonym for decadent, sultry, hedonistic



Colonial Warrior said:


> And also, the term 'morbid obesity' it's a sentence to social isolation!!!



This definitely is true! It's like branding someone with the modern day version of the scarlet letter.

The main problem is that it is used so pervasively and mostly incorrectly. Look through the media how often -in particular - women who wear like a size 12 are labeled "morbidly obese" and "so unhealthy"....


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## Colonial Warrior (Oct 7, 2018)

agouderia said:


> I don't actually mind the term that much.
> 
> Outside of English, the use of the adjective is more often used with other connatations.
> In every Italian supermarket you will see dozens of package with some "morbidi" cookies - which means nothing else than soft and juicy.
> ...


I agree with you!!! 

In particular with the German term. It's like saying that we are this way by self choice. That we are destroying ourselves intentionally.

And I also love that similarly with the Scarlet Letter!!!


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## abzu (Nov 29, 2018)

Although I'm not in love with the term "Morbidly Obese", I wouldn't particularly object to it either if those labeling me such treated/viewed me with appropriate compassion and as a fully actualized human. By "those" I mean "medical professionals". Being labeled such by members of the general public would make me want to strangle them.


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## JDavis (Nov 30, 2018)

I hate morbidly obese for the reasons you mention but also hate "overweight" since it is a judgement that I am at a weight that is higher than it should be. I disagree with that. My genes coded me this way and nature/God/Universe wanted me this way. I actually prefer large but I know that "fat" is the PC term.


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## TwoSwords (Nov 30, 2018)

BeaBea said:


> Personally I find it very offensive. Its literal translation is 'dead fat' and even if it once started as a valid diagnosis its now used as a moral judgement. If you are big it gives you an excuse to give up on your own healthcare and if you're smaller it gives you a reason to deny the best care, support and dignity to your patient. It also suggests we are close to death when all the Supersized people I know are all busy squeezing every ounce of fun and enjoyment out of their lives in every way they can.



In its most innocuous definitions, the word "morbid" still refers to something that is related to illness, or else in some way unwholesome or unpleasant, and is therefore not an accurate term with which to describe fat people.

There's also another consequence to the over-stressing of fatness when it comes to health. It sometimes discourages naturally-thin people from watching what they eat, because they think that as long as they're not fat, they have nothing to worry about. That's false.


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## LifelongFA (Nov 30, 2018)

I think many of us are influenced by the terms that were being used in our developing years. "Morbidly obese" was always a very cold medical term with judgmental connotations - at least to me. Growing up in a family and extended family where nearly all the women were BBW or SSBBW, it was always interesting to hear the terms these women would describe themselves or others. I never heard any of them use the word "obese" for example. Usually, the older women would use terms like heavy, heavyset, plump, or simply "big". My female cousins, on the other hand, seemed much more comfortable with "fat" in describing themselves or others. Also, these comments were made as a statement of fact vs. a gossipy or derogatory comment.


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## BouncingBoy (Jan 7, 2019)

Using words like Grossly overweight or morbidly obese makes me feel like they think we're some kind of disease!What gives them the right to use these terms for us?We are not all meant to be stick thin or have massive muscles.Each person in my mind has the right to be physically as they wish to be.Any time a Dr. brings up my weight I tell them straight out my weight is my business.I'm not trying to be an athlete & I've never worked in a job where I had to have bulging muscles to accomplish things.I've always been me.Fat & Happy!The sooner people realize we're NOT all supposed to be the same the sooner this world will improve!


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## Shotha (Jan 8, 2019)

I view on this is very much coloured by my activities as an amateur naturalist and by my personal understanding of evolution. Nature doesn't produce organisms including people according to specification manuals written by humans. Nature, therefore, knows extremes but not excesses. If I find a specimen of an animal or plant, which is bigger than the size range given in textbooks, it does not mean that I have an oversized specimen. It means that the textbooks need to be updated. I, therefore, reject words, which contain an element meaning "over" such as "overweight" or "obese". "Obese" is from the Latin word "obesus" meaning "over" (ob) + "eaten" (esus). I reject them, because they set an arbitrary standard.

I prefer the word "fat". It is honest and isn't in itself associated with an arbitrary standard. As I have always found fat people beautiful and always wanted to be a fat man, I like the word. I notice that in the poll at the start of this thread, "fat" is the most preferred word, currently sitting at 29.4%.

I don't like the word "big" used as a euphemism for "fat". It is ambiguous, because people can be big without being fat. Moreover, there is nothing more insulting than a euphemism, because it implies that we are too disgusting even to be mentioned.

My doctor doesn't harp on about my weight, no matter what I see him about. If something is related to my being fat, he will tell me, "That's because of you're weight." He seems to be very careful to avoid the words "obese" and "overweight". I think myself very lucky to have such a doctor. I think he realizes that I like being fat.

Obviously, we can't avoid the comments that other people make. I don't find their comments offensive, because they're just telling me albeit unintentionally that I'm the man, I've always wanted to be. When people make negative comments about my body, I just don't think that it's any of their business, because the only person who needs to be happy with my body is me.


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## Orchid (Apr 11, 2019)

This reminds me of something that happened long time ago 2001. I was abroad in a german heart clinic and on my chart saw mystery word adipositas. When I read it I think oh I got some extra new disease. And few minutes later they explain is german word for fat. I am relieved no one added adipositas in the poll choice ...
I voted fat. Just a short word. People who do not know me do not know why how I got fat and that I have HF.Due to severe heart failure I have ascites which is lots of water in belly, water retention.


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## Killexia (Apr 11, 2019)

Morbidly obese makes me feel like a subhuman when someone says it to me. Fat or big works well to describe us folks. 

I often refer to myself as "fat girl" or "fat mama". It just works and the self deprecating humor makes people relax around me.


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