# Small Fats



## squeezablysoft (Feb 4, 2017)

Is anyone here familiar with the "small fats" idea? That ppl in the size 14-18 range who self-identify as fat enjoy a measure of thin privilege that larger ppl don't. Which is undoubtedly true but all this talk of "they aren't REALLY fat" and "they're stealing the thunder from ppl who REALLY ARE fat" kinda makes me feel like the pudgy little misfit who nobody wants and who doesn't fit in anyplace. Like everyone agrees the size my body is rn is not attractive or ok. Some would want it bigger a majority would want it smaller but still the point is I feel like my body is too fat to be attractive by most ppl in American society but not big enough to qualfy me as a true BBW.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Feb 4, 2017)

I'm much bigger than you (size 24) and have felt that way...

Most people in my reality think I need to lose weight, most of my life. Places like this? Nah I still need to think about changing- just in the other direction. 

Gotta learn to brush that dirt off your shoulder...


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## LumpySmile (Feb 5, 2017)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Gotta learn to brush that dirt off your shoulder...



In the end, that's really what it comes down to. And I know that's not easy. Especially in this day and age when everyone feels the need to spout off every little preference in black and white for all the world to see. 

The fact of the matter is you can drive yourself nuts worrying about what other people think. Just remember most of the time they are thinking about themselves anyway. 

It's not your job to live up to other people's expectations.


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## landshark (Feb 5, 2017)

LumpySmile said:


> In the end, that's really what it comes down to. And I know that's not easy. *Especially in this day and age when everyone feels the need to spout off every little preference in black and white for all the world to see.
> *
> The fact of the matter is you can drive yourself nuts worrying about what other people think. Just remember most of the time they are thinking about themselves anyway.
> 
> It's not your job to live up to other people's expectations.



Aint that the truth? A cross fitter, a vegan and an athiest walk into a bar together and everyone knows right away!


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## AmyJo1976 (Feb 5, 2017)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Gotta learn to brush that dirt off your shoulder...


 
Exactly, love your body! It's yours and no one else's business


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## Dr. Feelgood (Feb 5, 2017)

I can't improve on what the previous posters say: they are wise. I will, however, point out something you already know but may have forgotten. There is a lock for every key. Although I'm attracted to women of all sizes, my greatest attraction is to midsize BBW's. I know several other guys who feel the same way. If your personality is as it appears in your posts, I doubt you'll be waiting for long!


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## Fat Molly (Feb 5, 2017)

I call myself 'thin-fat' because at size 20-22, we a lot of times we do have privileges that thin people have. I can go to old navy and find things in my size. Most stores I can't, but a few I can. And also I don't have much in the way of mobility issues related to my size, and I can speed-walk pretty great. also people don't stare at me when I'm going down the street, whereas heads turn when my boyfriend of 9xl does.


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## Tad (Feb 6, 2017)

I'm frustrated -- I'd written a long response on my phone yesterday, but by the time I was done I'd timed out and the whole post was lost. Will see if I can remember what I was trying to say and be somewhat coherent about it.

I think that most people would agree that the experience of being fat can vary with size. A woman who is 210 pounds may get called fat, be harassed by doctors about weight loss, not be able to shop in many stores, have their romantic life changed from being fat -- but their experiences are very different from those of someone who weighs twice as much. And likewise their bodies will be very different, and while some people may like all sizes of big, and others may really not care about size, to some degree they are apt to attract people with different preferences. Of course size and fatness come on a continuum, so even if you feel that applying some division to that continuum is helpful when trying to establish common interests, how to divide it up is still subject to a lot of 'discussion.'

I do find it interesting, in a linguistic and sociological sort of way, how there seems to be a fairly deliberate shift in terms. I have spent most of my life usually seeing 'fat' people being used to mean noticeably fatter than the average population, and terms like super sized, extra fat, and so forth for people noticeably fatter than people who are big enough to be called fat. But there seems to be an effort by at least some to shift 'fat' to mean quite a bit larger size than it used to, with 'small-fat' filling in to cover people who would formerly have been called fat. Seems like a bit of a deliberate effort to normalize larger sizes of fat? I'm not sure if I particularly care, but I certainly won't have a lot of patience for anyone who gets upset by people not adopting this new usage -- you don't get to change the meaning of things and expect everyone to go along with that change.

Having said that, I'll use the 'small-fat' terminology for the rest of this post. 

First, have some small-fat sympathy. I'm on the male side of that. (I wear a 42" waist, which in terms of access to clothes in various types of stores and general social treatment I'd put as the approximate equivalent of being an American size 16 in women's clothes). I'm on the BHM board for a mix of historical and social reasons, with no illusions that most people would classify me as a BHM, or that the FFA there would generally consider me to be of interest physically (even putting aside other factors like being married, old-ish, bald-ish, short-ish, and generally replaceable by a garden gnome), but likewise I'm fat enough that (again even aside from all those other factors) I wouldn't expect the average woman on the street to think I'm physically interesting either. 

It sure would be cool to go somewhere and know that people would think I was hot -- but then again I had to start wearing glasses at age 12, by age 15 I was on the short side of average on height, by 23 my hairline was in full retreat, I've been a nerd all my life, I've never had broad shoulders or a deep voice .... so even if I was seventy five pounds lighter or heavier I'd probably never have had to beat people off with a stick. So at least for me it was just sort of 'one more thing,' something that I regret at times but it just isn't a big enough deal for me to make changing that a priority in my life. So I can pass along some sympathy, but only so much I guess as I just don't view it as a huge deal.

Back to the more general topic. I pretty firmly believe that there are more people who are attracted to small fats than to larger people. I also pretty firmly believe that most of those admirers would never have thought of seeking out an online community, as they see many people of their preferred size in daily life. Likewise I think most small-fats don't come looking for an on-line fat community, because their size doesn't limit or define their life all that strongly, and in most cases they've had enough interest shown in them to know that they have a realistic possibility of meeting people other ways. 

The exceptions, the ones that do join on-line fat communities, I suspect are mostly the small-fats and admirers thereof who either have other fat issues or interest (weightgain, stuffing, admirers who are also fat, fats who are also admirers, etc), or who have other complications in their lives that either makes the fat stuff stand out more to them, or makes face-to-face mingling more difficult (history of eating disorders, used to weight more, social anxiety, depression, trapped in a tough situation, physical disabilities, etc).

For what it is worth, I just did a quick exercise. I can think of 18 family and friends who I know enough of their romantic history to take a reasonable stab at guessing the preferences of them or their partners. I've got a couple of small-fat cousins who are both married to tall, thin, nerdy guys who seem to completely adore them and have never given any indication that their size was an issue, and I have three friends who have indicated by who they have dated and/or married some appreciation for small fats (one of whom is himself a small-fat). So out of 18 relationship histories, at least five have positive small-fats components.

But I don't think any of those people would be more general FA of the sort often seen on this site. Not that I've ever asked, but I'm pretty confident on this. This is just anecdotal; obviously the circle of my friends and family is not representative of the population at large and the sample would be too small to prove anything anyway. But just based on experience saying that something like 20% of people might have a preference that includes small fats, but only a few percent have a preference for sizes larger than that, feels like it may be reasonable. I think there is just no easy way to find those small-fat preferers, especially as many of them may be fine with whatever a size category down from that would be called, too.


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## Tracii (Feb 6, 2017)

I have to wonder why do people get so bothered with things they have no control over?
To say "stealing thunder from really fat people" I have to ask what in the heck does that even mean?
Love who you are no matter what size you are and leave it at that.
You are the size you are and that is fine so don't worry about fitting in one or the other "size" box be who you are and love yourself.
I find pudgy very attractive on some people but I wouldn't tell them I can't be friends with them because they aren't really heavy like I am thats just crazy.


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## Fat Molly (Feb 6, 2017)

Fat Molly said:


> I call myself 'thin-fat' because at size 20-22, we a lot of times we do have privileges that thin people have. I can go to old navy and find things in my size. Most stores I can't, but a few I can. And also I don't have much in the way of mobility issues related to my size, and I can speed-walk pretty great. also people don't stare at me when I'm going down the street, whereas heads turn when my boyfriend of 9xl does.



Oh I meant small-fat. Lol.


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## AmyJo1976 (Feb 6, 2017)

Fat Molly said:


> Oh I meant small-fat. Lol.


 
I thought that was a strange combination to describe yourself with, that clears it up lol!


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## Tracii (Feb 6, 2017)

Molly that was the first time I had ever heard of that term.
I'm so glad you posted about it and I have learned something new.


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## DianaSSBBW (Feb 6, 2017)

LumpySmile said:


> The fact of the matter is you can drive yourself nuts worrying about what other people think. Just remember most of the time they are thinking about themselves anyway.
> 
> It's not your job to live up to other people's expectations.




SO TRUE! - glad someone has my same opinion.

Now if I could also convince someone else about this!!

I get the impression that an old friend is struggling with what people say and think about him.


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## Tad (Feb 6, 2017)

Even if one is personally secure in their size/body/self, there is still the matter of community. Most of us like to have a supportive community around us, and sometimes size acceptance and fat-admiration/fat-fetish sites are subject to internal tensions, with one of the fault lines that sometimes shows up being around size. Having your issues dismissed as inconsequential because not as difficult as those of someone bigger, wanting to share cute pictures (because it is fun to share cute pictures) and having them ignored or panned &#8211; not so great. Flip side, of course, is if you are much bigger and are looking for a space you fit in and people get your life and issues, and the talk is still not fitted to you, negative comments about being really big, “small-fat &#8216;splaining” as I saw someone put it recently, etc.


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## AmyJo1976 (Feb 6, 2017)

DianaSSBBW said:


> SO TRUE! - glad someone has my same opinion.
> 
> Now if I could also convince someone else about this!!
> 
> I get the impression that an old friend is struggling with what people say and think about him.


 
I know several people like that. Convincing them differently is not an easy task. They usually have to figure it out themselves.


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## landshark (Feb 6, 2017)

AmyJo1976 said:


> I know several people like that. Convincing them differently is not an easy task. They usually have to figure it out themselves.



I've found over the years people are pretty much going to believe what they want to believe. I think it's a small part of the population whose minds can actually be changed. Or perhaps a more accurate statement is each of us are willing to change our own minds about a very small amount of the things we see and observe. 

This is why I don't worry about convincing people or explaining myself to others. It's liberating when you realize just how little someone else's opinion actually means to you!


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## AmyJo1976 (Feb 6, 2017)

happily_married said:


> It's liberating when you realize just how little someone else's opinion actually means to you!


 
Very liberating indeed


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## Fat Molly (Feb 6, 2017)

Tad said:


> Even if one is personally secure in their size/body/self, there is still the matter of community. Most of us like to have a supportive community around us, and sometimes size acceptance and fat-admiration/fat-fetish sites are subject to internal tensions, with one of the fault lines that sometimes shows up being around size. Having your issues dismissed as inconsequential because not as difficult as those of someone bigger, wanting to share cute pictures (because it is fun to share cute pictures) and having them ignored or panned  not so great. Flip side, of course, is if you are much bigger and are looking for a space you fit in and people get your life and issues, and the talk is still not fitted to you, negative comments about being really big, small-fat splaining as I saw someone put it recently, etc.



", small-fat splaining as I saw someone put it recently, etc." this is SUCH A THING.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Feb 6, 2017)

happily_married said:


> I've found over the years people are pretty much going to believe what they want to believe. I think it's a small part of the population whose minds can actually be changed. Or perhaps a more accurate statement is each of us are willing to change our own minds about a very small amount of the things we see and observe.



Sometimes it's just too scary to admit that we're all just making it up as we go.


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## bigmac (Feb 6, 2017)

happily_married said:


> ... It's liberating when you realize just how little someone else's opinion actually means to you!



Depends a lot on who that other person is.


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## landshark (Feb 6, 2017)

bigmac said:


> Depends a lot on who that other person is.



I have a shockingly short list of people whose opinions matter to me.


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## bigmac (Feb 6, 2017)

happily_married said:


> I have a shockingly short list of people whose opinions matter to me.




Me too -- which makes the revelation of someone on the list that much worse.


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## Fat Molly (Feb 6, 2017)

all i can say is that I simultaneously don't care what anyone thinks, and I care what *everyone* thinks

yay borderline personality disorder


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## AmyJo1976 (Feb 7, 2017)

Fat Molly said:


> all i can say is that I simultaneously don't care what anyone thinks, and I care what *everyone* thinks
> 
> yay borderline personality disorder



You said it


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## RealMe (Feb 8, 2017)

Anyone who isn't fat sees us all as fat. No such thing as small-fat in their eyes. Fat or not fat.


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## AmyJo1976 (Feb 8, 2017)

RealMe said:


> Anyone who isn't fat sees us all as fat. No such thing as small-fat in their eyes. Fat or not fat.


 
Very true. I don't think I've ever heard fat being discussed publicly in a positive light. It's always negative. So very sad


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## agouderia (Feb 8, 2017)

RealMe said:


> Anyone who isn't fat sees us all as fat. No such thing as small-fat in their eyes. Fat or not fat.



Indeed.
And the problem is that "fat" as negative descriptive these days is even applied to people who are still withint the "healthy" BMI range of 24/25. 

For women "small fat" constitutes a size US 10/12.


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## Tad (Feb 8, 2017)

agouderia said:


> Indeed.
> And the problem is that "fat" as negative descriptive these days is even applied to people who are still withint the "healthy" BMI range of 24/25.
> 
> For women "small fat" constitutes a size US 10/12.



Although as Molly was saying, in some size/fat acceptance circles, it is being used more for a larger range than that -- basically the lower end of 'plus-sizes' in clothing store terms.


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## AmyJo1976 (Feb 8, 2017)

Tad said:


> Although as Molly was saying, in some size/fat acceptance circles, it is being used more for a larger range than that -- basically the lower end of 'plus-sizes' in clothing store terms.


 
I suppose I need to get out more. This is the only place I have ever actually heard the term "small fats". Of course I do tend to stay in my own little world most of the time


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## agouderia (Feb 8, 2017)

Tad said:


> Although as Molly was saying, in some size/fat acceptance circles, it is being used more for a larger range than that -- basically the lower end of 'plus-sizes' in clothing store terms.


.

I am aware of the use of the terminology in size/fat acceptance circles.

But let's face it: That use is marginal to irrelevant in the general scope of the understanding of the term.

Communication is a convention on what word/term is ascribed to an object/action. And numbers are the only thing that count for the context. How many people use and understand a term in the same way?

Nowadays more and more niche interests are cultivating their own vernacular - but that does not necessarily do anything for advancing those causes beyond the niche. On the contrary, insisting on own terminology tends to wall in minorities (that's why such high priority is assigned to language learning in integration of immigrants).

Come to think of it - the trend to try and enforce in-group terminology in a broader social context probably is one of the underlying reasons for much political antagonism these days.


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## AmyJo1976 (Feb 8, 2017)

agouderia said:


> .
> 
> Nowadays more and more niche interests are cultivating their own vernacular - but that does not necessarily do anything for advancing those causes beyond the niche. On the contrary, insisting on own terminology tends to wall in minorities (that's why such high priority is assigned to language learning in integration of immigrants).
> 
> Come to think of it - the trend to try and enforce in-group terminology in a broader social context probably is one of the underlying reasons for much political antagonism these days.


 
I agree people tend to over complicate things for no real good reason. Makes my head spin sometimes lol! Way too many terms to describe the same thing. I like it simple, either one or the other. I don't mind when I'm called fat, but some people do and I don't think it makes a difference if you try and sugar coat it.


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## landshark (Feb 9, 2017)

AmyJo1976 said:


> Very true. I don't think I've ever heard fat being discussed publicly in a positive light. It's always negative. So very sad



Pretty much. As PC as we are these days it's still socially acceptable to make fun of fat people, women more so than men from what I can observe. And even when someone isn't openly making fun, it's obvious a lot of people feel perfectly comfortable casting disapproving looks and signaling their judgment. This is usually easy to ignore but every once in a while it can get under your skin.


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## TwoSwords (Feb 12, 2017)

squeezablysoft said:


> Is anyone here familiar with the "small fats" idea? That ppl in the size 14-18 range who self-identify as fat enjoy a measure of thin privilege that larger ppl don't. Which is undoubtedly true but all this talk of "they aren't REALLY fat" and "they're stealing the thunder from ppl who REALLY ARE fat" kinda makes me feel like the pudgy little misfit who nobody wants and who doesn't fit in anyplace. Like everyone agrees the size my body is rn is not attractive or ok. Some would want it bigger a majority would want it smaller but still the point is I feel like my body is too fat to be attractive by most ppl in American society but not big enough to qualfy me as a true BBW.



I think the problem is that we don't have, and haven't ever had, an adequate classification system or terminology to describe ourselves or each other. (For some reason, a lot of people don't seem to like classifying themselves, which is something I've always enjoyed doing, so there's a fair amount of resistance to this idea.) No matter what you look like, someone, somewhere, will like the way you look, and many other people won't. That will never change. I think the problem is that in this day of internet search terms, we like to be able to use our terminology to find specifically what we're looking for, and so muddying the waters in terms of terminology is seen as unwelcome. I think "small fats" or "middle weights" between 120 and 200 or so could be described by many good and inventive terms. It's just a matter of coming up with one. SBW, for instance, or "soft, beautiful woman."


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## landshark (Feb 12, 2017)

TwoSwords said:


> I think the problem is that we don't have, and haven't ever had, an adequate classification system or terminology to describe ourselves or each other.



I could not possibly disagree more with this statement. I think one of the biggest problems that plagues humanity is we are TOO good at classifying ourselves We have terminology for every little thing, from race/ethnicity to sexual orientation to the ever-growing number of gender identifiers, to body types thick and thin. We are so wrapped up in classifying ourselves by what makes us different that we've lost entirely the ability to focus on the things that make us alike.


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## AmyJo1976 (Feb 12, 2017)

happily_married said:


> I could not possibly disagree more with this statement. I think one of the biggest problems that plagues humanity is we are TOO good at classifying ourselves We have terminology for every little thing, from race/ethnicity to sexual orientation to the ever-growing number of gender identifiers, to body types thick and thin. We are so wrapped up in classifying ourselves by what makes us different that we've lost entirely the ability to focus on the things that make us alike.



Well said guy


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## fuelingfire (Feb 12, 2017)

In regards to the original post. I think a lot of FAs do find the small fat attractive. Though I dont really have a defined set range for what I find attractive. For me the minimum starts at a woman who it fat enough to have a tummy that sticks out a few inches in front of them. Though there are some FAs who want the fattest woman possible. 

I think the reason why you might see SSBBWs getting more attention, especially online, is due to rareness. 

Also when you see a picture of a person online it is kind of hard to tell how big they actually are. But if a person is very large its a bit more obvious.


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## TwoSwords (Feb 12, 2017)

happily_married said:


> I could not possibly disagree more with this statement. I think one of the biggest problems that plagues humanity is we are TOO good at classifying ourselves We have terminology for every little thing, from race/ethnicity to sexual orientation to the ever-growing number of gender identifiers, to body types thick and thin. We are so wrapped up in classifying ourselves by what makes us different that we've lost entirely the ability to focus on the things that make us alike.



The ability to communicate specific thoughts, concepts and ideas is *the highest and most advanced ability* that human beings have. I stand by what I said.


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## landshark (Feb 12, 2017)

TwoSwords said:


> The ability to communicate specific thoughts, concepts and ideas is *the highest and most advanced ability* that human beings have. I stand by what I said.



But does that really require even more classifying of people than what we already have?


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## TwoSwords (Feb 12, 2017)

happily_married said:


> But does that really require even more classifying of people than what we already have?



I don't see what the problem is. I like being able to describe the various good things about myself in a short period of time. It's more efficient and easier, and it usually makes everything much clearer and simpler to understand.

English is kind of a strange tongue; a mix of various European languages from various sources, but even though it is my own native language, I've always found it wanting when it comes to specificity. Greek, German and, yes, Latin are way more specific and useful for describing things, provided you can find someone who speaks those fluently, because those languages were made from a mindset that says "I want to describe things as clearly as possible, so how can I do this?"

I don't believe that rampant confusion over terms will do anything to draw people closer to each other or to heal the wounds that exist between those of differing aesthetic, opinion and standpoint. Only understanding can do that.


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## landshark (Feb 12, 2017)

TwoSwords said:


> I don't see what the problem is...



Oh, there's no problem at all. If you feel you need to put people in a box, that's on you. Not everyone feels so constrained, and some of us find that type of thinking limiting.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Feb 12, 2017)

TwoSwords said:


> I don't believe that rampant confusion over terms will do anything to draw people closer to each other or to heal the wounds that exist between those of differing aesthetic, opinion and standpoint. Only understanding can do that.



Exactly. And understanding comes through direct experience; language only serves to confuse. Even at my most eloquent, all I can _tell_ you is the contents of my own mind, which will necessarily differ from the contents of _your_ mind. Language is an attempt to map our experiences through sound, but, as Alfred Korzybski pointed out, "the map is not the terrain."


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## TwoSwords (Feb 12, 2017)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Exactly. And understanding comes through direct experience; language only serves to confuse. Even at my most eloquent, all I can _tell_ you is the contents of my own mind, which will necessarily differ from the contents of _your_ mind. Language is an attempt to map our experiences through sound, but, as Alfred Korzybski pointed out, "the map is not the terrain."



Well, until such time as telepathy becomes a viable alternative, words are what we're stuck with.


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## TwoSwords (Feb 12, 2017)

happily_married said:


> Oh, there's no problem at all. If you feel you need to put people in a box, that's on you. Not everyone feels so constrained, and some of us find that type of thinking limiting.



In a very real way, it *is* limiting. That's kind of the point. The word "define" comes from the *de*noting of *fin*it*e* limits in the meaning of a word, and it's through this method that one is able to make themselves understood through language, but I definitely prefer it over being confused, which is certainly what I would be, without defining my terms.


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## Fat Molly (Feb 13, 2017)

RealMe said:


> Anyone who isn't fat sees us all as fat. No such thing as small-fat in their eyes. Fat or not fat.



I strongly disagree. small-fats can be non-visibly fat in some contexts. 

e.g. I think many normal-size people will see small-fat people as 'oh if you lost some pounds you'd be very beautiful' 

and indeed a lot of times when people, around me, have done the 'oohhhhh i'm so fat,' deal. and I've been like 'um, I'm way heavier than you, so like haha shut up.' then i've gotten a lot of 'no babe you're not fat, you're beautiful, seriously though you're not fat.' 

see also: I comment 'I'm going to eat another ice cream because I'm fat,' or something else fairly value-neutral (even fairly prideful, actually), and everyone starts trying to reassure me that I'm beautiful. 

i think because fat has such awful and moral connotations within our culture, it's easier for people to overlook a small-fat person who they like. whereas that same person, on the street or in the car, they might see the fatty/be annoyed by the fatty and think 'what a gross ugly fatty.' 

does this make sense? sorry it's 4am and i'm not super coherent probably. 

IN SUM: I believe small-fats can often be given the 'benefit of the doubt' or have their fatness erased/excused by others, provided small-fats have proven their moral fortitude or likeability or whatever. if you're friends with a small-fat chances are you don't necessarily think of them as actually fat. 

whereas with a supersize fat person? like, you're just overwhelmed with the constant reminders of how fat they are. mobility issues being the big one, as well as size/fitting into places issues. 

ultimately, as I am thinking about this... I see this being more of an able-bodied issue vs. a disabled-body issue. when your fatness moves you from generally-able-bodied to a disabled-body (or at least is visibly perceived in this way), then that's when normies really start to be disgusted. a lot of the 'ugh those fat slobs' gross-out humor in TV shows and the like, it's often centered around the super-sized fat body vs. the beginning to intermediate fat body. 

the extremes are what really get the most attention, in many ways. and many people just don't see people who are small-fat to be actually fat, because small-fats aren't so fat as to be 'morally disgusting' in some way. 

because a fat person who is disabled is OBVIOUSLY disabled 100% by their fat and not by, for example, orthopedic injuries or chronic ailments or anything other than their moral perversity. /sarcasm. 

yes, our media does a reprehensible job with regards to fatness. i remember watching Mean Girls, where the character Regina George 'gets fat' and I remember watching and being like, 'how on earth is this woman considered fat?' and it heavily reinforced my eating disorder. but I think the average level-minded person generally doesn't believe that TV = representative of reality. in fact, most of my psychiatric-disabled clients would tend to agree with this.

yes TV etc. impacts us unconsciously, but I see enough evidence from the sheer scope of the # of people that I interact with... that I must conclude that most people agree that TV fatness isn't real fatness. and most people enjoy talking about how TV fatness isn't real fatness. 

ultimately it's the disability that's (perceived to be caused by) fat that modern society sees as 'disgusting fat' in my opinion. whereas generally I feel small-fats get a pass. 

/sorry for long rambling 4am post and i'm sure I didn't articulate things effectively so please be generous in interpreting my words thanks. 

ONE OTHER THING

so i've been going to a fancy midtown ortho doc in nyc. and at this doc's office, I swear the first time I was there, I was in the waiting room for 3hrs and I saw maybe one other person who was heavy, and I was heavier than them. (and i'm a small-fat person.) it was a terrifying and isolating experience to know that all the other patients that I could see - mostly well-off or downright rich patients - were thin or average sized people who had things like skiing accidents or something like that. so it's v. important for me to remember that this perception stuff is very heavily impacted by class/economic status. because my poor-as-fuck clients generally don't give a damn about peoples' weights, though if they see a supersize person they might be like 'damnnnnn there goes a big guy,' but otherwise they don't treat people shitty based on weight. generally.


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## Fat Molly (Feb 13, 2017)

TwoSwords said:


> Well, until such time as telepathy becomes a viable alternative, words are what we're stuck with.



true facts are true


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## Tad (Feb 13, 2017)

Molly, some great points in there, 4am or not. Stuff I need to think about more, but might come back with some questions later.


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## AmyJo1976 (Feb 13, 2017)

Fat Molly said:


> ' then i've gotten a lot of 'no babe you're not fat, you're beautiful, seriously though you're not fat.'


 
I find it humorous how people will use that line when you refer to yourself with the word "fat". It's like "fat" is a bad word and replacing it with "beautiful" makes you feel better lol! I'm guilty of it too if a girlfriend calls themselves fat in a discouraging way. But when you are undeniably fat, it changes to "Babe, you're beautiful"


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## landshark (Feb 13, 2017)

AmyJo1976 said:


> I find it humorous how people will use that line when you refer to yourself with the word "fat". It's like "fat" is a bad word and replacing it with "beautiful" makes you feel better lol! I'm guilty of it too if a girlfriend calls themselves fat in a discouraging way. But when you are undeniably fat, it changes to "Babe, you're beautiful"



My approach is to point out that fat and beautiful are not mutually exclusive. My wife looks in the mirror sometimes and says "ugh I'm so fat" and I am like "you say that like it's a bad thing!" 

@ TwoSwords,
I love a good word study as much as the next guy but my point is t the origin of the word "definition" or any variation thereof but that overly defining people by physical traits is something that already exists and more often than not does more harm than good.


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## AmandaLynn (Feb 13, 2017)

AmyJo1976 said:


> I find it humorous how people will use that line when you refer to yourself with the word "fat". It's like "fat" is a bad word and replacing it with "beautiful" makes you feel better lol! I'm guilty of it too if a girlfriend calls themselves fat in a discouraging way. But when you are undeniably fat, it changes to "Babe, you're beautiful"



Beautifully fat!


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## Fat Molly (Feb 13, 2017)

amyjo1976 said:


> i find it humorous how people will use that line when you refer to yourself with the word "fat". It's like "fat" is a bad word and replacing it with "beautiful" makes you feel better lol! I'm guilty of it too if a girlfriend calls themselves fat in a discouraging way. But when you are undeniably fat, it changes to "babe, you're beautiful"



this this this


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## AmyJo1976 (Feb 13, 2017)

AmandaLynn said:


> Beautifully fat!


 
Fact girl!


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## AmandaLynn (Feb 13, 2017)

AmyJo1976 said:


> Fact girl!



You need to trademark that.


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## fuelingfire (Feb 13, 2017)

I am just breaking down you post into smaller quotes because there is a lot to comment on.


Fat Molly said:


> and indeed a lot of times when people, around me, have done the 'oohhhhh i'm so fat,' deal. and I've been like 'um, I'm way heavier than you, so like haha shut up.' then i've gotten a lot of 'no babe you're not fat, you're beautiful, seriously though you're not fat.'


IMO most thin people complaining about being fat is, them fishing for complements. In my head I am always thinking Honey, please! in a sassy manner.


Fat Molly said:


> see also: I comment 'I'm going to eat another ice cream because I'm fat,' or something else fairly value-neutral (even fairly prideful, actually), and everyone starts trying to reassure me that I'm beautiful. QUOTE]
> I am assuming these are people who dont know how you feel about being fat (I am just guessing you are cool with it due to your profile pic). That statement can come off as attention seeking and like you are depressed. Though in this community that has a completely different meaning.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Tad (Feb 15, 2017)

Molly, your notes about fat people being seen as disabled got me thinking. I can sort of see three dynamics at work, and quite possibly all mixed together:

- Disabled in its literal sense -- that sufficiently fat people struggle with a bunch of activities that most people think of as normal

- More sort of 'not fitting in' in both a literal and figurative sense (can't fit in chairs, can't keep up with the group walking somewhere and may not be able to do the activity if they do make it there, shop at different stores, will never have the same look, etc). This same sort of factor may apply to many physically disabled people (if in a wheelchair, on crutches, have mobility or coordination problems, etc)

- A basic 'not of my tribe' feeling because they just seem so different (bigger, slower, don't do the same things I do, don't hang out at the same places I do, etc)

I could imagine any or all being a factor beyond the moral condemnation of fat is part of our society too. And all being things that would not hit small fats as much. As in, a small fat might still catch some of the moral condemnation, but when you don't look so different, when you literally fit in, when you do most things the way that most people do them, there is not these other factors that may influence people's feelings?

Would be interested in your thoughts around that.


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## RealMe (Feb 17, 2017)

Fat Molly said:


> e.g. I think many normal-size people will see small-fat people as 'oh if you lost some pounds you'd be very beautiful'



They call them plump, overweight, chunky, fat. 

Here's a test, go to the club and annoy some skinny people and see what they call you. People are cruel.


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## AmyJo1976 (Feb 17, 2017)

RealMe said:


> They call them plump, overweight, chunky, fat.
> 
> Here's a test, go to the club and annoy some skinny people and see what they call you. People are cruel.


 
I haven't been to a club in a long time, but I remember the snickers and comments when a fat person, or even just chubby, would go out on the dance floor. Cruel indeed.


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## bigmac (Feb 18, 2017)

AmyJo1976 said:


> I haven't been to a club in a long time, but I remember the snickers and comments when a fat person, or even just chubby, would go out on the dance floor. Cruel indeed.



A lot depends on the club and the city. Some places are more accepting than others. I've found that clubs that feature punk or alternative music tend to be more accepting. Also some cities just seem friendlier. A few weeks ago I was at a club in Albuquerque with my new GF. We danced a lot and no one said anything bad -- indeed several people started friendly conversation with my GF.


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## AmyJo1976 (Feb 18, 2017)

bigmac said:


> A lot depends on the club and the city. Some places are more accepting than others. I've found that clubs that feature punk or alternative music tend to be more accepting. Also some cities just seem friendlier. A few weeks ago I was at a club in Albuquerque with my new GF. We danced a lot and no one said anything bad -- indeed several people started friendly conversation with my GF.


 
I totally agree. I'm sure it does depend on the location and the culture. Like I said it's been a long time, so I'm sure it's changed a lot in the last 15 to 20 years also. Hopefully anyways


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## BigFA (Feb 18, 2017)

I know I am late to this very interesting thread but I find it continually amazing that in a country where 70 to 75% of adults are overweight or obese (according to medical definitions anyway) we still hear or worry about negative comments about being fat. If someone is skinny we don't automatically comment on that person, so why if someone is overweight does it really matter to anyone? 

Having said my piece, I personally like the descriptors plump or chubby vs. "small fat". And I especially like to describe a woman being "beautifully fat" if I find her overall to be appealing. I describe myself as "fat" all the time, usually in a light humorous way when I ask for a table vs. a booth in a restaurant or similar situations. Its my way of communicating to others that the word "fat" is a normal descriptor and not something that should be view negatively.


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## TwoSwords (Feb 18, 2017)

BigFA said:


> If someone is skinny we don't automatically comment on that person, so why if someone is overweight does it really matter to anyone?



Probably because our feelings aren't necessarily governed by logic and evidence. At least I know it's that way for me. It's just that way in the reverse direction as it is for the culture.



BigFA said:


> ...the word "fat" is a normal descriptor and not something that should be view negatively.



Absolutely agree.


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## ShakesSphere (Feb 18, 2017)

Gaining weight is also a factor. If a very fat person gains weight, no one notices. I find that half the time when I have gained weight, people say, :Have you lost weight?" They really can't tell!

But when someone gains weight and crosses the line from "average" to "fat" everyone will come down on them like a ton of bricks. This can be very upsetting, especially when it's own family. You think that everyone will be harassing you to the max constantly for the rest of your life unless you lose weight. But in truth, people will adjust their perceptions over time and think of you as a fat person. The comments may not go away, but they will settle down to a low rumble as long as you don't feed into it by getting down on yourself.


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## quantumbits (Feb 19, 2017)

Oh I decided to add another hting.. Cellulite! Woman complain a lot about that, especially on their butt and legs. Personally, I don't care. Is it unsightly? Not really. Because my mind is too filled with butterflies. I think too many woman worry about it and htey should't. It's like me worrying about boogers or forehead wrinkles. Or maybe worrying about the hair on my chest/back or baldness. Learn to just accept you as you. Life of course throws us through so many twists and turns. Sometimes disfigurement really is bad. I get that. But I think woman examine their bodies a lot. Sometimes htey need to do something else, just to get some fresh air.


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## landshark (Feb 19, 2017)

^^^wow that was a mouthful!

Welcome aboard, and thank you for making a long post with multiple thoughts.

I'm curious why BMI seems so important to you? There are a lot of different height and weight combinations in a lot of different body types that can yield the same BMI. It's literally a useless metric. 

Also, if I may take exception to one comment...

"Skinny IS pretty at least."

While I respect that this is your preference and won't ever fault someone for having the preferences he or she has, I think this can easily be taken as a volatile statement esp here in Dims. And of course, as a matter of preference this is not universally true. A beautiful woman can be found in a fat or skinny body.


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## Fat Molly (Feb 19, 2017)

Tad said:


> , when you literally fit in, when you do most things the way that most people do them, there is not these other factors that may influence people's feelings?



that's exactly what i'm getting at. exactly.


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## RealMe (Feb 23, 2017)

ShakesSphere said:


> But when someone gains weight and crosses the line from "average" to "fat" everyone will come down on them like a ton of bricks. This can be very upsetting, especially when it's own family. You think that everyone will be harassing you to the max constantly for the rest of your life unless you lose weight. But in truth, people will adjust their perceptions over time and think of you as a fat person.



That is so true! I'm so glad I'm out of the weight range where family would suggest liposuction. I used to get so frustrated at them because I was not too fat and was quite comfortable with my body but they wanted the fat gone. 

Now I'm in the weight range where they suggest weight loss surgery. LOL


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