# $3.15 per gallon for regular.



## Tina (Apr 20, 2006)

And $3.25 per gallon for premium. That's the price I saw at a local station here on the central coast of california.

How much are they charging for gas in your town/city?


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## sweetnnekked (Apr 20, 2006)

Thankgoodness I don't drive but I feel for all of you who do.


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## Falling Boy (Apr 20, 2006)

Here around Flint, Michigan we are paying $2.75 per gallon for regular unleaded. I am not sure about the premium.


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## Echoes (Apr 20, 2006)

Last time I was in town, it was 2.79. I live in Southwest Mississippi.


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## saucywench (Apr 20, 2006)

Tina said:


> And $3.25 per gallon for premium. That's the price I saw at a local station here on the central coast of california.
> 
> How much are they charging for gas in your town/city?


 
I filled up my MINI Cooper yesterday. I have to use premium. Unfortunately, my receipt flew out the window:doh: as I had both windows down. I drove across the river to the Kroger store because I can get a 10-cent discount using my Kroger card (realized the other day there's another Kroger store with gas pumps _somewhat_ closer to me here in LR, but, oh well). It cost $35 to fill up the tank.

I had heard of this site before, but saw it mentioned again yesterday on CNN or MSNBC. You can enter your zip code and find out the cheapest price for gas in your area. You can also search by type/grade of fuel needed.

I can't imagine what changes that people still driving SUVs, or people who have to commute long distances, are having to make to their lifestyles.  (Edited to add: Oh yeah, I commute a total of 3 miles round-trip to work each day. Go me!)

I love my MINI, for many (MINI?) reasons. This is but one.


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## Jane (Apr 20, 2006)

$2.69 this morning. No telling what it will be by this afternoon. I still had some $2.35 in my tank when I filled up yesterday.

Summer's here...and the livin' is easy....(unless you have to drive to work).


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## moonvine (Apr 20, 2006)

$2.79 a gallon. 

I never saw much reason to pay a lot of money for gas, so in 1994 I bought a 4 cylinder, good gas mileage sort of car, and I've been happy with it ever since.

Even at today's prices it costs me less than $25 to fill up. Of course, when I first moved here gas was .79 a gallon and I filled up with $7, but that was bound to end. Gas is still much cheaper than in Europe (I think there it is around $6 US a liter).

If I actually need to haul something, which I may a couple of times a year, I rent something with towing capacity, but I don't need that on a daily basis.


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## Robin Rocks (Apr 20, 2006)

$2.83 in my podunk town but I'm sure it's a few cents higher in Nashville. I'll have a look see on my drive in shortly.


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## Thrifty McGriff (Apr 20, 2006)

I believe it was about CA$1.10ish a litre, no more, and probably a bit less. So it's probably a tiny bit more expensive for us to get a full gallon, I think. A gallon is about 3.7 litres. I do happen to suck at math and I don't actually know the current gas price, that is off the top of my head from about a week ago. 

I don't drive either, thankfully.


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## BigBawdyDame (Apr 20, 2006)

Just north of Detroit, MI, it's $2.89 for regular and $2.99 for premium. Absolutely outrageous if you ask me!!!


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## abluesman (Apr 20, 2006)

$2.79 in Knoxville.... $2.89 in Crossville. I don't understand that.


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## MoonGoddess (Apr 20, 2006)

Here in southern Maine, depending on whether it is in town or out in the boondocks, we are running from 2.81 to 2.87 for regular.

I have to fill my car every week, as I have an hour round trip commute to/from Portland. I am seriously thinking about joining a van pool.

MoonGoddess


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## ScreamingChicken (Apr 20, 2006)

I saw on the CBS Evening News last night a story on oil prices and they showed a station in NYC where premium was $3.89! No Kidding!


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## Kimberleigh (Apr 20, 2006)

And Exxon Mobil reported RECORD profits for 2005 and 1stQ 2006. 
Smarmy bastards.

Regular is $2.89 a gallon.


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## Blackjack (Apr 20, 2006)

$2.95 at my station (the one I work at, that is) as of yesterday. Not sure if it changed since then, but it probably did.

In all honesty, I don't care whether it goes up or down, since I, the clerk who's sitting on his laptop behind the desk so that he can do his homework and earn money rnough to pay for this gas, an SO responsible for the prices that people will either bite my fuckin' head off for prices they consider too high, or blather on about their relief at how low they're getting.

Tip: The clerks don't give a damn. If they look like they're in college, don't gripe to them. You'll just piss them off.


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## Allie Cat (Apr 20, 2006)

$2.89 for regular in Indiana.

It's getting to the point where most people in town can't afford to drive to work any more without putting gas on their credit cards.

I think it's time for a revolution.

=Divals


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## WouldBeFeedee (Apr 20, 2006)

I'm in the UK and in my hometown petrol is currently around 98p per litre... this converts as approximately *$6.50 * per gallon.


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## FitChick (Apr 20, 2006)

Tina said:


> And $3.25 per gallon for premium. That's the price I saw at a local station here on the central coast of california.
> 
> How much are they charging for gas in your town/city?



I don't normally pay attention since I don't drive...but my husband is complaining that its $3 a gallon here in the Philly/NJ area.

All I'll say is: sure glad I ride a bike, and use buses, and that we're moving back to Philly (once we're back home, my husband's job will be only five minutes from our house, as opposed to 1 1/2 HOURS now!) Our gas credit card monthly bill will go from 250 bucks to almost nothing!


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## toni (Apr 20, 2006)

A couple of weeks of warm weather and they are already starting with the gas prices. This is ridiculous. I have to fill up twice a week to get to work, I am already paying $65 a week. There is no form of public transportation to take in this area. It is a shame that these big (very rich) gas companies are taking advantage of us and there is nothing we can do about it. We are at their mercy.


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## BBW Betty (Apr 20, 2006)

Central WI has about $2.92, at least at the station I drive past. 

About that warm weather....Isn't it in the fall that they blame rising costs on the colder weather? Well, now what's their excuse?


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## Miss Vickie (Apr 20, 2006)

It's like two sixty something here for regular. Way too expensive, given that we grow so much of it up here.


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## Kimberleigh (Apr 20, 2006)

UPDATE: $3.15 for regular at the Hess. 
Anyone have a bicycle they want to sell?


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## Miss Vickie (Apr 20, 2006)

My daughter and I were noticing all the huge hurking SUV's for sale in our community. Heh. Gas guzzing's a bitch, dontchaknow. 

I fill up my car every three weeks and it costs about $35 for super duper gas. And I drive a LOT, not to mention the fact that she desperately needs a tune up, which should improve her mileage even more.


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## Timberwolf (Apr 20, 2006)

Around $6.06 for premium. In germany.
[/irony]Sounds like a special offer, doesn't it?[irony]


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## Falling Boy (Apr 20, 2006)

Update here in Michigan its up to $2.95 now.


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## Phalloidium (Apr 20, 2006)

It's funny that people whine about the price of gas -- but will pay $30/gallon for coffee at Starbucks.

I still pay more for bottled water than gas. I'm not complaining.


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## herin (Apr 20, 2006)

It's between $2.79 and $2.89 here in Baton Rouge, depending on where you go.


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## rainyday (Apr 20, 2006)

$2.69 today at ARCO. Shell, Mobile, etc. are a bit higher.


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## Orso (Apr 20, 2006)

Same sad story for me. 

Here in Italy we pay unleaded more or less the equivalent of U.S.$ 6 the gallon


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 20, 2006)

Exon Mobile needs to make another 30 billion dollars this year.

What I want to know is how is someone..who makes minimum wage and has babies going to be able to pay for the gas to get to work AND pay for necessities of their children.

The government officials are idiots. I think the rising gas costs are going to force more and more people to get public assistance and it's going to cost the taxpayers more and more.

Maybe my logic is flawed..I don't think so. All I know is I'm offically shelling out 100 bucks a week for gas..in a month..I'll spend a full 1/4 of my income on gasoline alone.

Screw the oil companies!


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## HailToTheKing (Apr 20, 2006)

I filled my nice sporty and economical Honda Civic up in London today and it cost me $7 / gallon - that's nearly $100 / tank. You guys in the US think you have it bad...

I'm gonna go cry in the corner and get the underground to work instead! Thank God for living in a city.


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## Orso (Apr 20, 2006)

Phalloidium said:


> It's funny that people whine about the price of gas -- but will pay $30/gallon for coffee at Starbucks.QUOTE]
> 
> Yes, but I'm not sure I'd drink a cup of gas and put coffee in my tank. Somehow I feel it's not the right procedure


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## Phalloidium (Apr 20, 2006)

MisticalMisty said:


> Exon Mobile needs to make another 30 billion dollars this year.
> 
> What I want to know is how is someone..who makes minimum wage and has babies going to be able to pay for the gas to get to work AND pay for necessities of their children.
> 
> ...




Hate to point out the obvious, but don't drive so much! A car is not a basic necessity. I've lived for years without. I walk. I bike. Even when grocery shopping, though I sometimes spring for a cab.

We live in a capitalist society. Gas is a commodity whose price is set by supply and demand -- world supply is decreasing and demand is rising. Don't get use to the low prices we're currently enjoying.


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## toni (Apr 20, 2006)

BBW Betty said:


> Central WI has about $2.92, at least at the station I drive past.
> 
> About that warm weather....Isn't it in the fall that they blame rising costs on the colder weather? Well, now what's their excuse?



Yes you are right. Home gas heating goes up when it gets colder. When it gets warmer automobile gas goes up. They say more people drive in the summer. BLAH BLAH BLAH WHATEVER, its all a rackett!


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 20, 2006)

Phalloidium said:


> Hate to point out the obvious, but don't drive so much! A car is not a basic necessity. I've lived for years without. I walk. I bike. Even when grocery shopping, though I sometimes spring for a cab.
> 
> We live in a capitalist society. Gas is a commodity whose price is set by supply and demand -- world supply is decreasing and demand is rising. Don't get use to the low prices we're currently enjoying.




Seriously..that's not the obvious. I live 20 miles from where I work and 10 miles from the nearest grocery store and/or town. So, come live in rural Oklahoma..or any other rural community and tell them to stop driving so much..you might get rednecked!


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## Phalloidium (Apr 20, 2006)

MisticalMisty said:


> Seriously..that's not the obvious. I live 20 miles from where I work and 10 miles from the nearest grocery store and/or town. So, come live in rural Oklahoma..or any other rural community and tell them to stop driving so much..you might get rednecked!



There's a reason I choose to live where it's a 15 minute walk to work. 

Yeah, I've lived in rural areas before: the nearest international airport to where I grew up was a 14 hour drive away.

In the end, it's a decision with trade-offs and compromises.


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 20, 2006)

Phalloidium said:


> There's a reason I choose to live where it's a 15 minute walk to work.
> 
> Yeah, I've lived in rural areas before: the nearest international airport to where I grew up was a 14 hour drive away.
> 
> In the end, it's a decision with trade-offs and compromises.



Well, then you should feel blessed that you have the opportunity and the ability to live somewhere that you only have to walk 15 mins to get to work.

There's no decision making to it. You do what you do to survive..it's not like you can look at a mother, making minimum wage and barely supporting herself and family and say "You just need to move closer to where you work..that would solve ALL your problems" That's bullshit.


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## Phalloidium (Apr 20, 2006)

MisticalMisty said:


> There's no decision making to it. You do what you do to survive..it's not like you can look at a mother, making minimum wage and barely supporting herself and family and say "You just need to move closer to where you work..that would solve ALL your problems" That's bullshit.



I actually moved where I'm living now when I was making minimum wage, working a different job, with debt payments eating up half of what I made -- I've been there.

And no, moving obviously won't solve most problems. Yes, it would save on gas, but it wouldn't take other factors into consideration, and I never said it would, either.


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 20, 2006)

Phalloidium said:


> I actually moved where I'm living now when I was making minimum wage, working a different job, with debt payments eating up half of what I made -- I've been there.
> 
> And no, moving obviously won't solve most problems. Yes, it would save on gas, but it wouldn't take other factors into consideration, and I never said it would, either.


it's completely different if it was just you...and not other mouths to feed.


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## FitChick (Apr 20, 2006)

Phalloidium said:


> There's a reason I choose to live where it's a 15 minute walk to work.
> 
> Yeah, I've lived in rural areas before: the nearest international airport to where I grew up was a 14 hour drive away.
> 
> In the end, it's a decision with trade-offs and compromises.



One MAJOR reason why we're moving back home to Philly is because of the commuting my husband has to do.

We currently are almost 2 hrs from his place of employment. When we move we will be about 5 minutes from it WALKING. I would rather die than live in the suburbs ever again.

But yeah, as someone said, its expensive to move, esp when you buy a house. Settlement costs ALONE ran me about 20K (that's not counting the cost of the house itself). Philly has a killer real estate transfer tax. If not for the inheritance I got last year, I could not have afforded to move either!


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## fatlane (Apr 20, 2006)

$2.95/gallon in Dallas... and we got signs on the pumps promising 10% ethanol in the mix... watch out for those...

We had a dealer advertise a buy one, get one free car sale. Daaaaang.


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## FitChick (Apr 20, 2006)

fatlane said:


> $2.95/gallon in Dallas... and we got signs on the pumps promising 10% ethanol in the mix... watch out for those...
> 
> We had a dealer advertise a buy one, get one free car sale. Daaaaang.




Hint: buy the cars with the "buy one get one free" deal, and store them away till the gas prices go down.


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## Tina (Apr 20, 2006)

Phalloidium said:


> Hate to point out the obvious, but don't drive so much! A car is not a basic necessity. I've lived for years without. I walk. I bike. Even when grocery shopping, though I sometimes spring for a cab.
> 
> We live in a capitalist society. Gas is a commodity whose price is set by supply and demand -- world supply is decreasing and demand is rising. Don't get use to the low prices we're currently enjoying.



It's easy for you to do this when you take your mobility for granted, eh?

And Misty, I agree completely.


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## fatlane (Apr 20, 2006)

FitChick said:


> Hint: buy the cars with the "buy one get one free" deal, and store them away till the gas prices go down.



Like that's gonna happen.

And if they did, I still can't stand SUVs.


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## Fuzzy (Apr 21, 2006)

$3/gallon for diesel. (I have a TDI Beetle)

And as I have read, its not a US only problem. Its a world problem. China is becoming quite the consumer of petroleum. When you have less supply, and more demand, the prices go up.

At least NOW, commercially produced biodiesel is becoming cost-effective. Expect more trucks to smell like popcorn.


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## swamptoad (Apr 21, 2006)

I saw on the (Minnesota) local news that a lady bought a scooter thats gets 70 miles to the gallon, despite already having the car that had been getting her around. According to the news report, she had never rode one in her life, I think. I think the scooter costed her about 2,500 dollars or so. And I remember seeing her nervously driving it in the rain with her helmet on. 

I wonder if there is going to be a boost in scooter sales due to the climb in gas prices?


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## Tina (Apr 21, 2006)

Just read it was almost $4.05 per gallon in Beverly Hills. Ridiculous.


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## Jon Blaze (Apr 21, 2006)

they just jumped up to 2.99 now for regular... Premium is 3.18... At least premium has a one somewhere in it


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 21, 2006)

fatlane said:


> $2.95/gallon in Dallas... and we got signs on the pumps promising 10% ethanol in the mix... watch out for those...
> 
> We had a dealer advertise a buy one, get one free car sale. Daaaaang.


I didn't realize you were in Dallas..I'm about an hour and half from you up in Oklahoma..halfway between you and Jane..uh oh..I smell trouble 

and Tina..thanks


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## EvilPrincess (Apr 21, 2006)

Fuzzy said:


> Expect more trucks to smell like popcorn.


 
Ohhh Yeahhh, that's what I'm talking about!


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## HappyFatChick (Apr 21, 2006)

Make sure you get a gas card.
You can save up to 5%. That's 15 cents per gallon. And it adds up really fast.


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## 4honor (Apr 21, 2006)

Tacoma, WA here

It was $2.74 a gallon for unleaded before the Safeway 6 cent discount (I spent $50 on groceries and they give me 6 cents a gallon discount). Usually the discount for card holders is 3 cents.


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## Aliena (Apr 21, 2006)

My hubby just put $20 in the tank today and told me that it only gave him just over 1/2 tank. I drive a car that has only a 15 gallon tank. 
I'm glad we live in town, for now anyways. I'm just waiting for the rest of the price gougers use high fuel costs to raise their prices too. What will America do when their BigMac cost $10?


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## 1300 Class (Apr 21, 2006)

Cheapest petrol in Brisbane is 127 cents per litre which equates to something.


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## 1300 Class (Apr 21, 2006)

94 US cents per litre. 
About 4 litres in a gallon. 
QED about $3.76 US at its cheapest in Metropoliton Brisbane without discount.


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## Plasticuser (Apr 22, 2006)

A US gallon is smaller than a UK gallon, but the exchange rate is .53 UKP = $1, therefore *twiddles braincells* that's $7.21 for a US gallon or $8.44 for a UK gallon.

And, for the Americans, a pint is NOT a pound the World around. In the US they're 16oz, everywhere else, they're 20oz. So pints and gallons are smaller in the US.


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## 1300 Class (Apr 22, 2006)

Crazy Americans. Get with the game and use Metric!


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## Thrifty McGriff (Apr 22, 2006)

I'm content with biking for now. I get a solid hour of biking a day when I work, half an hour there and half an hour back. I like killing two birds in one stone and exercising while transporting myself. Otherwise I'd have trouble getting myself to go biking just to exercise.  

When I move up to Ottawa for school soon, I'll be fortunate enough to (supposedly) be living amidst the second best mass transportation system in North America. *shrug* So I've been told by a few people living there anyway. It damn well should be since it's my nation's capital. But anyways, mass transportation is the way to go for me, besides my bike of course. Besides being cost effective and, in the case of a big city like Ottawa, convenient, it also goes along with my feelings and beliefs. 

I understand people like convenience and control of their settings, I'm not sure there are many who wouldn't. But I just really dislike the idea of so many individuals using 4 or 5+ seat cars to drive to work or wherever every day. I know some people might really not have a choice (ie. rural setting), and some people don't care about the environment or might even think the environment is fine, but I'm one of those peaceniks who doesn't think it's fine, and who does care for the environment. I could go on about all of that crap but I won't bother. Basically, the idea of me driving a big car to transport myself around when I could probably just bike (which I do) is "immoral" to me. I feel like I'm only doing an injustice to the environment, and I would only get angry at myself for that (surprise surprise ). 

So anyways, I will hopefully be avoiding driving a personal automobile as often as possible in the future, assuming I even finish getting my license. I don't care what kind of impact it might have on any aspect of my life. I'm sure some, maybe most women won't like the idea of having a boyfriend who avoids driving, so I'm probably shooting myself in the foot there, but tough shit I suppose. I like to stick to my morals and beliefs. That includes not contributing to the apparent decline of the environment. 

Mind you, if I have to, I'll probably try to get one of those tiny smart cars.  I'm sure they are horribly overpriced like most things in our market. 

To recap: Blah blah blah environment blah. *shoots himself in the foot*


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## Tina (Apr 22, 2006)

It really would be the smart way to go, AL. We almost did at one point, but nope. I really need to study up on it, as I'd like to know the conversion formulae.


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## CleverBomb (Apr 22, 2006)

I like the metric system -- for example, in Canada my sadly underpowered old VW van can go 117 if I floor it! 
Here in the U.S., it'll only do 70. 

-Rusty


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## 1300 Class (Apr 22, 2006)

At least you have decimal currency. Which is step in the right direction.


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## missaf (Apr 22, 2006)

Single mom, minimum wage, mouths to feed. I up and moved and started over and took advantage of every government program I could to get back on my feet. Now I'm paying the government back, with my taxes and direct payments to funds inside the system to help the legitimate moms and dads who need the system for a leg up like I did.

We live 3.5 hours from the nearest airports, an hour from any shopping besides WalMart, twenty minutes from the grocery store, and we make it happen. My sister, who is a single mom with a mouth to feed, too, got a job at the grocery store and takes public transportation home, so she's got her food with her. 

If you don't like the situation you're in, you can make it happen, and you can make it change if you really want to.

Do I like paying $3.29 a gallon for gas? Hell no. But I'll be damned if I'm going to let them know that the demand will stay the same when they hike the prices. We walk or carpool everywhere but my son's gymn lessons when the price skyrockets. If it's more then $2.60, I don't go anywhere unless it's necessary. I'm teaching my kid, too. I let my fingers do the walkin' if I need to shop for something, or I'll buy it online and look for free shipping deals. I've had enough, and my cutting back on travel is a wish for everyone, including the arrogant people who insist on driving gas guzzlers and force the prices higher and higher.

Don't go blaming just the US government, it's a consumer issue, as well as a supplier issue. Do you honestly think Bush or any part of our government can control our dependency on foreign oil? We need domestic drilling and processing, and we've needed it for over 10 years. I remember during the first gulf war when the price of oil rose to *GASP* $37 a barrel. Now look at it! We need something serious to happen to wake poeple up to the art of conservation, and if it takes $6 a gallon gas, maybe we'll change the way we do things.


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## 1300 Class (Apr 22, 2006)

In the US, its impossible out of tradition and free market economics to prevent the price rises. The whole structure is rotten and needs reform. Either the state or federal government needs to do something about it, either forcing or coersing OPEC nations into producing more to bring the price down or introducing price caps or restrictions at a state or federal level. Or have the US federal government purchase stock or controlling sectors of oil companies and through that manipulate the price and companies. What the US needs is a monoply controller corporation owned by the federal/state governments of all oil imports/exports to manage things and keep the price down. In this case, the free market can no longer be regarded as sound, and government intervention must be considered. 

Here in Queensland, the state government subsidises the petrol by 10cents, so it makes it cheaper


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## jack (Apr 22, 2006)

The truth about gasoline prices in the US:

1. Gasoline prices are rising MAINLY because the Federal Reserve has spent some time opening the money supply. They are increasing the money supply in order to soften the affect of the interest rate hikes, which they're doing to deflate the housing bubble without popping it, which would cause a serious economic downturn.

2. Are oil companies gouging customers?

Compare the Third Quarter 2005 earnings reports of several major companies.







As you can see, ExxonMobil's profit margin is _shockingly_ lower than many major companies in several other industries. Gouging? No.

And finally, before you complain about gas prices going up, here's a look at what you SHOULD be complaining about:











I could go into detail about the money supply, but I doubt many would care, and it won't change many opinions. If anyone's really interested, I can post some charts that explain everything. The most important thing, however, are the last two charts.


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## missaf (Apr 22, 2006)

I just love how the oil industry is written all over those statistics


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## 1300 Class (Apr 22, 2006)

The Federal reserve has to print more money because of the increase in the economy and the increase in the price living and the wages. The interest rate hikes are to steady the rate of inflation and slow down the economy with the aim to slow economic growth and hence print less money. 

Just look at Exxons sails compared with Microsoft. 88 compared to 9. So inreality those statistics mean squat and your argument or lack there of. And please start on about the economy, I do so love these debates.


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## CleverBomb (Apr 22, 2006)

missaf said:


> Don't go blaming just the US government, it's a consumer issue, as well as a supplier issue. Do you honestly think Bush or any part of our government can control our dependency on foreign oil? We need domestic drilling and processing, and we've needed it for over 10 years.



Yes, they could,* if they wanted to* -- by raising fuel economy standards, funding research into alternative energy, improving public transportation, dropping the speed limits on interstate highways, etc. This adminstration would veto any such proposals in a heartbeat -- not that the GOP leadership of the House or Senate would bring them up in any case.

As far as domestic production goes,the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, if ruthlessly exploited, would only cover about *6 months* of America's fuel needs at our current rate of consumption, unfortunately.



jack said:


> The truth about gasoline prices in the US:
> 
> 1. Gasoline prices are rising MAINLY because ... <in short, inflation>
> 
> ...



1. Oil prices have gone up recently due to instability in the markets (since Iran might cut back on production as leverage against American threats over their nuclear program -- and this is even without an outright war), coupled with increasing world demand, particularly from China. 

2. It's interesting that the frame of reference you give includes a corporation with monopoly power (Microsoft), and two companies that benefit from market barriers (Pharmaceutical companies with drug patents). And as far as profit margins go, the margin might not go up, but the absolute profits do -- for the same amount of oil/gasoline.

2a. It's also interesting to note that the time-frame chosen for the second chart (82-84 vs 2005) includes the trailing edge of the oil price spike from the '79 oil crisis, and leaves out the 16% oil price increase since last year.
*If the starting point was 1986 and the end point right now, the percentage change in "Oil and Gas" would be around 294%*, not 160% -- pushing it up past everything except "Tuition, School Fees, and Childcare". And that's only gone up that much because you can't replace teachers with machines, or send their jobs to India.



missaf said:


> I just love how the oil industry is written all over those statistics



Ah, you noticed that too.

-Rusty

(Notes: The comparisons in the chart would have to be made between the 1986 market low of $20/barrel instead of $50/barrel, and this year's first quarter prices of $67/barrel instead of $57/barrel last year. I'm using 2004 constant dollars for reference, and rounding off a bit for clarity.)


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## CleverBomb (Apr 22, 2006)

Additional footnote: If you use the average price of oil 1947-2004 (about $30/barrel, which was the price in mid-'85 also) rather than the 1986 market low, the increase is *only* 196% instead of 294%, which places it below "Medical Care". Still, medical care is in-country-labor intensive (see my comment regarding education costs) and affected by drug costs (see my comment on pharmaceutical corporation profits).


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## jack (Apr 22, 2006)

The two charts that are from oil companies aren't disputed. They're facts. You could, if you researched enough, find the same information from The Economist, Buisness Week, or a large number of economic periodicals. They just happened to be the most consice and easiest-to-read charts I could find.


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## Zandoz (Apr 22, 2006)

You can prove or disprove anything with the right statistics, formulas, graphs, etc. My favorite is the mathematical proof that bees can't fly. No matter how you graph it, in the end it still amounts to a staggering climb in the total dollars in their control, and a death spiral in dollars in control of the median or below income individual/family.

This is yet another example of big business/government ignoring a basic principal...for every action there will eventually be an equal but opposite reaction. Someday the reaction is gonna hit the fan.


$2.90 per gal regular unleaded average.


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## CleverBomb (Apr 22, 2006)

Figures lie, and liars figure.

I was initially suspicious on the last chart because the range wasn't a round number (for example, 1985-2005) and I thought they were using some quirk in the economy besides oil prices to game the numbers for the _other_ industries... then I remembered the '79 oil crunch and looked up price charts for that period -- and bingo, there it was. If they'd gone back to '79 they could have "proven" that oil is _cheaper_ now than it used to be... but that would have been too blatant. (And, the way oil prices have been trending lately, wouldn't be true for much longer anyhow).

I stand by my comments on the other chart. Three of the companies mentioned have unreasonable power to set prices, for the reasons I already listed above. Another (Google) is an anomaly due to its position in its market. A better comparison would be with other producers of refined extractable minerals (steel industry) or processed commodities (agribusiness). Somehow, I suspect those numbers would look a bit less impressive by comparison...

-Rusty


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## Webmaster (Apr 22, 2006)

Tina said:


> And $3.25 per gallon for premium. That's the price I saw at a local station here on the central coast of california.
> 
> How much are they charging for gas in your town/city?



Roughly the same here in the Sacramento area. Those guys quite literally have us over a barrel. I grew up paying European prices for gasoline, so I am not unused to paying a lot for gas, but it is getting a bit disconcerting. That's because here you do need a car to get places whereas back in Europe in most places you always have the option of simply walking or using public transportation.

What does puzzle me are a few things.

We're actually only getting a small part of our imported oil from volatile places. Over 30% comes from Canada and Mexico, almost 50% from the Western hemisphere. Only 21% comes from the Middle East. Including fairly stable and friendly Saudi Arabia, the Middle East contributes all of 12.6% of our overall oil (import and domestic). Add to that the record profits of oil companies, and the picture becomes quite suspect. If you want to peruse the most current figures, check them here. So I think we're really dealing with an oil supply system that heavily draws upon The School of Enron.

For (unrealistic) comparison's sake, all oil consumed by automobiles could be met by a 10 x 10 mile solar farm grid somewhere in a desert.

What is perhaps most baffling is that this radical increase in oil prices coincides with a period where the world is engaged in a horespower arms race of historic proportions. Classic "muscle" cars seem underpowered in comparison to what's available today. And let's not even get into our embarrassing appetite for gargantuan road tanks such as Hummers, Ford Excusions, Lincoln Navigators, Cadillac Escalades, Tahoes, and similar shameful atrocities. What we've done, in essence, is use our vastly enhanced engine management technologies not to conserve gas, but to build giant and hugely overpowered vehicles that get roughly the same mileage as back in the guzzler days. And the industry sidestepped CAFE standards by switching production to less regulated trucks and SUVs.

Something will have to give.


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## olivefun (Apr 22, 2006)

I live in Toronto.

Our roads have tons of tiny hybrid cars.
I understand that there is some kind of resistance to selling these things in the states. Anyone know more than that?
I am surprised at how many people in my life have these tiny 2 seater things. 
Our climate is more punishing than yours is in general.


I ride a bike much of the year, but I live downtown.


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## CleverBomb (Apr 22, 2006)

Webmaster said:


> What does puzzle me are a few things.
> 
> We're actually only getting a small part of our imported oil from volatile places. Over 30% comes from Canada and Mexico, almost 50% from the Western hemisphere. Only 21% comes from the Middle East. Including fairly stable and friendly Saudi Arabia, the Middle East contributes all of 12.6% of our overall oil (import and domestic). Add to that the record profits of oil companies, and the picture becomes quite suspect. If you want to peruse the most current figures, check them here. So I think we're really dealing with an oil supply system that heavily draws upon The School of Enron.



The problem is that there isn't much excess oil production capacity worldwide.
If any of the major producers goes offline (for example, Iran deciding to stop its oil exports), it would be difficult for other producers to make up the difference. This isn't even taking into account what might happen if we decide to start _Gulf War III: Armageddon Boogaloo_ by bombing Iran's nuclear facilities... They have the ability to retaliate by shutting down the Straits of Hormuz with anti-ship missiles and sea-mines, and can strike Saudi and Kuwaiti oil facilities with intermediate-range missiles. Much of the recent price increase is hedging against such a possibility.

I don't know what to make of the SUV trend, other than an observation I saw in a car magazine several years ago that while the average size of _cars_ in the U.S. had decreased over the years, the average size of _all vehicles_ remained the same if you figured in SUVs. In other words, Americans want cars the size they want them -- and if that's only available in a SUV form, they'll take it. DaimlerChrysler has recently started building cars based on this; something that I realized a few years ago: a lowered and chopped SUV is a station wagon, and an extended-cab pickup with a covered bed is a 2-door coupe -- just the way we built 'em back in the good old days!

-Rusty


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## CleverBomb (Apr 22, 2006)

olivefun said:


> I live in Toronto.
> 
> Our roads have tons of tiny hybrid cars.
> I understand that there is some kind of resistance to selling these things in the states. Anyone know more than that?
> ...



With gas as cheap here as it has been until recently, there's been no real sales advantage in having good fuel economy. And, smaller cars here have been typically viewed (and marketed) as cheap -- the Mini and the New Beetle being rare exceptions.

-Rusty


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## Thrifty McGriff (Apr 22, 2006)

olivefun said:


> I live in Toronto.
> 
> Our roads have tons of tiny hybrid cars.
> I understand that there is some kind of resistance to selling these things in the states. Anyone know more than that?
> ...



Thats the one I'd probably try to get for myself if it came to it.


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## Thrifty McGriff (Apr 22, 2006)

CleverBomb said:


> The problem is that there isn't much excess oil production capacity worldwide.
> If any of the major producers goes offline (for example, Iran deciding to stop its oil exports), it would be difficult for other producers to make up the difference. This isn't even taking into account what might happen if we decide to start _Gulf War III: Armageddon Boogaloo_ by bombing Iran's nuclear facilities... They have the ability to retaliate by shutting down the Straits of Hormuz with anti-ship missiles and sea-mines, and can strike Saudi and Kuwaiti oil facilities with intermediate-range missiles. Much of the recent price increase is hedging against such a possibility.
> 
> I don't know what to make of the SUV trend, other than an observation I saw in a car magazine several years ago that while the average size of _cars_ in the U.S. had decreased over the years, the average size of _all vehicles_ remained the same if you figured in SUVs. In other words, Americans want cars the size they want them -- and if that's only available in a SUV form, they'll take it. DaimlerChrysler has recently started building cars based on this; something that I realized a few years ago: a lowered and chopped SUV is a station wagon, and an extended-cab pickup with a covered bed is a 2-door coupe -- just the way we built 'em back in the good old days!
> ...



Would not the US have forces positioned to neutralize said anti-ship missiles and intermediate-range missiles while they do the nuclear facility? Preemption! 

Or is it a matter of the US knowing of their existence but not their present locations? 

Or is it some legal mumbo jumbo that makes no sense to me, considering what the US military has already done for the current administration.


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## missaf (Apr 22, 2006)

I don't think it's resistance to selling hybrids, it's resistance to purchase them. Auto manufacturers are trying to make hybrid SUVs for cryin' out loud. A hybrid SUV gets as much gas mileage as my small car does, that's not conservation.

On the other hand, when I went looking to purchase a car, hybrids were on such a back order it would take over a year and a half to get one delivered because Toyota couldn't keep up with the demand. 

Conrad's right, something has to give, performance needs to go.


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## CleverBomb (Apr 22, 2006)

Thrifty McGriff said:


> Would not the US have forces positioned to neutralize said anti-ship missiles and intermediate-range missiles while they do the nuclear facility? Preemption!
> 
> Or is it a matter of the US knowing of their existence but not their present locations?
> 
> Or is it some legal mumbo jumbo that makes no sense to me, considering what the US military has already done for the current administration.


If we can get them all at once, before they can launch, sure.

On the other hand, one ship sunk in the right place can block the Straits of Hormuz. It might even be one of their own, scuttled in place. 
Merely threatening to attack tankers would shut down shipping in the Gulf in any case.

And an attack large enough to take out their entire missile capability would constitute an all-out war, rather than a limited attempt to disable their nuclear program. If it comes to that, all bets are off...

-Rusty


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## Zandoz (Apr 22, 2006)

I'm all for building smaller (on the outside) more economical vehicles...and hybrids, electrics, hydrogen fueled, etc.. I've been a small car fanatic since the 70s, when it definitely was not fashionable...and living in the bely of the US auto industry, made one a target. But the reality of that is that even if magically done tomorrow, it will be 7-10 years before those more economical vehicles trickle down to to become the norm rather than the exception. A good part of the population can not afford to lay out the money for a new car, no matter how efficient. I do not know what the current statistics are, but in the past it has typically taken 7 years for a new automotive technology to go from new and rare to the majority. The reality is that even if they went out of production today, the SUVs that so many see as the root of all evil will still be with us for some time to come, because that will be what's available and affordable.


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## olivefun (Apr 23, 2006)

You know the epson printers that are not very good, but are cheap and the cartridges cost a fortune? 

If the SUVs are gas eaters, and these hybrids are not that expensive... I don't know. 
If someone _gave me_ a free SUV, I don't think I would want it, the cost of insurance and gas would make it prohibitive and the social stigma would make it unappealing too. I would sell it and get a hybrid. 

I hang around with artist/musicians and find that many have bought the new hybrids. I think if you factor in the cost of upkeep and repairs as well as the fuel and the environmental issues, that are more ecconomical than you think. 

Really, 
I am amazed at how they are a part of my life in very short order. 
It happened quickly. 
This is a hopeful development. Minor, but positive just the same.


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## Thrifty McGriff (Apr 23, 2006)

If somebody gave me a free SUV I would use it to vent frustration and anger when I felt the need, via baseball bat or sledgehammer. 

Now I want a free SUV.


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## VideoGamer (Apr 23, 2006)

Phalloidium said:


> Hate to point out the obvious, but don't drive so much! A car is not a basic necessity. I've lived for years without. I walk. I bike. Even when grocery shopping, though I sometimes spring for a cab.
> 
> We live in a capitalist society. Gas is a commodity whose price is set by supply and demand -- world supply is decreasing and demand is rising. Don't get use to the low prices we're currently enjoying.



I love it when people respond to national crises with philosophical lectures or lessons on market economics that most people learned in the third grade.

"Yikes, this is terrible! My home was just swept away by this hurricane!"

"Adversity builds character."

It's like, thanks for helping out, chief.

And for the record, in today's world, well, you DO have to drive, okay? I don't know whether you were just thawed out from cryogenic freezing, but nowadays pretty much the entire country is designed around the automobile.

This isn't the 1800's, let's try to get with the times, okay?


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## Stormy (Apr 23, 2006)

Ive never wanted a car any bigger, more powerful or fancy than necessary, and dont understand why it takes high gas prices to get most people to think about conservation, and even then they still want fancy. I dont want to waste gas whether its $1 or $10 per gallon, or invest more than I need to to get from place to place. You cant buy a basic, inexpensive, fuel-efficient new car in the U.S. Geo Metros were great  50MPG for under $10K with A/C, parts for them are cheap too, full set of new tires for $125, and theyre easy to maintain and reliable; I have 170K miles on one and it hasnt started only once, when it needed a new battery. Its a small car but really has quite a bit of room especially with the hatchback and back seat folded down, and I had no problems driving it at 300 pounds. But there wasnt enough demand to keep them in production.  I just dont understand people. Hybrids are expensive, and made much fancier than necessary, and the highest mileage gas cars only get in the low 40s MPG. If I had to get a new car now Id probably go with a Honda Civic (over $15K new, 40MPG), but I hope they come out with something more fuel-efficient and cheaper before I need one. 

View attachment geometro.jpg


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## moonvine (Apr 23, 2006)

olivefun said:


> I live in Toronto.
> 
> Our roads have tons of tiny hybrid cars.
> I understand that there is some kind of resistance to selling these things in the states. Anyone know more than that?
> ...



I don't think that there was resistance to selling them so much as people didn't want to buy them. Americans tend to think they are quite entitled, and one of the things they think they are entitled to are big ol honkin SUVs.


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## moonvine (Apr 23, 2006)

VideoGamer said:


> I love it when people respond to national crises with philosophical lectures or lessons on market economics that most people learned in the third grade.
> 
> "Yikes, this is terrible! My home was just swept away by this hurricane!"
> 
> ...



Um, no you don't. I know plenty of people who choose not to have cars. They ride their bikes, take public transportation, or walk. They choose to live in a fairly bike-friendly city where they can do these things. 

There are other people around here who flat can't afford cars. They also take public transportation. Or walk. 

This is not something I'd want to do, so I was responsible enough to choose to buy a gas-efficient car. I do live within walking distance of the bus stop though, should the need ever arise.

I dont' think that gas prices rising to half of European levels qualifies as a "national crisis." American gas prices have been artificially low for years. Health care - now that's a national crisis.


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 23, 2006)

olivefun said:


> You know the epson printers that are not very good, but are cheap and the cartridges cost a fortune?
> 
> If the SUVs are gas eaters, and these hybrids are not that expensive... I don't know.
> If someone _gave me_ a free SUV, I don't think I would want it, the cost of insurance and gas would make it prohibitive and the social stigma would make it unappealing too. I would sell it and get a hybrid.
> ...





You guys have to remember that a hybrid only works if you drive over 45 miles an hour consistently. So, if you have a short commute to work, or one where you don't go over 45..you're not saving any more gas than if you were driving a regular ole car.

As far as cheaper, good luck. I've been researching them since the end of last summer. They will still run you around 25 grand. Since there is such a huge demand for them, the dealers probably aren't making many deals on them..the same thing I've ran into trying to buy a diesel beetle.

So, in theory a hybrid would be great..only if all your driving was over 45 mph and you had the extra 25 grand.


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## grey1969 (Apr 23, 2006)

CleverBomb said:


> .......................................2. It's interesting that the frame of reference you give includes a corporation with monopoly power (Microsoft), and two companies that benefit from market barriers (Pharmaceutical companies with drug patents). And as far as profit margins go, the margin might not go up, but the absolute profits do -- for the same amount of oil/gasoline....................................................



The monopoly enjoyed by Microsoft is an absolute disgrace.

While pharmaceutical companies do benefit from patents (for a limited time) it does not stop competitors from developing a rival drug and competing on price. For example, the widely popular antidepressant Prozac was competing with a slew of competitively priced "me-too" competitors (Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, etc.) years before the patent ran out and generic competition wiped out the brand name sales.


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## missaf (Apr 23, 2006)

It really depends on the hybrid. Toyota's braking to Kinetic energy system allows their cars to run solely on the battery when in high traffic areas. Starting and stopping is good for a Toyota Prius. Where I live, there's so much open space I'd be running mostly on the gas engine, and I wouldn't get the benefit of the kinetic system, so it's almost useless for me to buy one.

I know Honda's hybrid is a different technology, but I've heard it's not as efficient either.

Hydrogen is a joke right now, too, because hydrolisis costs almost as much in fossil fuels as gasoline, so why bother with the conversion process? When a hydrogen car can convert its own water under its battery power and run the car, that's when it will be feasible.


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## Miss Vickie (Apr 24, 2006)

$2.71, regular unleaded, Anchorage Alaska.


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## Blackjack_Jeeves (Apr 24, 2006)

Well I did a persuasive speech on hybrid cars before, and I really do think that under the right conditions, you'd be silly NOT to have one. For example, college students going to and from school every weekend could save a lot over the years, money that could better be spent on college loans. And I'm also thinking that over time and further development, there won't be a 45 mph limit which will help MUCH more. Plus, with gas prices on the rise like they are now, every little bit of money saved on gas would likely help get you closer to making up for the extra money needed in purchasing the hybrid in the first place.

I read once that someone had made a car run on GARBAGE. Anyone else hear of this before? I didn't hear all the details, though I think it was more like produce.


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## moonvine (Apr 24, 2006)

Blackjack_Jeeves said:


> I read once that someone had made a car run on GARBAGE. Anyone else hear of this before? I didn't hear all the details, though I think it was more like produce.



I don't know about this, but I have seen cars that have been converted to run on used vegetable oil. It was in the context of a commune where they used as little "stuff" as possible. I'm not sure how economically feasible this would be for mainstream, though. I mean if you are a restaurant owner it is pretty easy to supply one person with used french fry grease, but quite another when 20,000 people show up demanding your used oil. Heh.


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## olivefun (Apr 24, 2006)

I love *french fries*.
My daughter calls them the "*Devil's Tiny Little Fingers*".

I would be willing_ in the name of science_ to eat more fries, if it was good for the earth...


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## moonvine (Apr 24, 2006)

olivefun said:


> I would be willing_ in the name of science_ to eat more fries, if it was good for the earth...




Me too Maybe we can fuel several cars


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## olivefun (Apr 24, 2006)

moonvine said:


> Me too Maybe we can fuel several cars




Aren't we so good for the environment??

(and it was just earth day too)


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## William (Apr 24, 2006)

Hey Tina

How can Connecticut be cheaper than Kali???

$2.89 Regular

http://www.connecticutgasprices.com/index.aspx?&area=Norwalk

William





Tina said:


> And $3.25 per gallon for premium. That's the price I saw at a local station here on the central coast of california.
> 
> How much are they charging for gas in your town/city?


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## 1300 Class (Apr 24, 2006)

For premium? God thats cheap.


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## HassanChop (Apr 27, 2006)

Over 4 bucks a gallon on Coronado Isl., San Diego...:shocked:


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## Tina (Apr 29, 2006)

Dunno, William, but in just over a week, gas has gone up 15 cents per gallon and it is now almost $3.34 per gallon for regular and almost $3.52 for premium. Completely ridiculous.

Hassan, I heard it was criminally high in SD. That stinks.


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## Sandie S-R (Apr 30, 2006)

Tina said:


> And $3.25 per gallon for premium. That's the price I saw at a local station here on the central coast of california.
> 
> How much are they charging for gas in your town/city?



We have a older Lincoln Towncar, and have to use premium. Even at Costco it is $3.26. We're in San Diego where it always seems to be about the highest in the state. I'm trying to get Guy to dust of the Harley and start riding it to work, just to save on gas. 

This so sucks!!


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## Tina (Apr 30, 2006)

Yes, it does. Y'all in SD always get screwed. I remember when that whole energy scandal was going on, hearing that people in your neck of the woods were paying often $300 a month for electricity. It's crazy. Wish we had a Costco gas station. But even then, like you say, it's still way too expensive.


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## Chimpi (May 1, 2006)

I have never paid over $3.00 for gas... ever. I just filled my gas tank up on Friday (and I also realized that I'm leaking fuel out from under the fuel tank. The sad part is I just had the entire thing changed last year ), and noticed that it has been hovering at $2.99 for a few weeks. I don't think they want to punch $3.00 for Regular. Hehe.


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## bigjeff6 (May 1, 2006)

$3.35 for unleaded and 3.52 for premium here in the lovely city of Long Beach, Ca.


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## 1300 Class (May 1, 2006)

Do what Cuba did in the early 1990s when it ran into fuel problems. Have the government purchase millions of cheaply made chinese bicycles and distribute them to the fuelless hungery masses.


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## pinuptami (May 2, 2006)

Falling Boy said:


> Here around Flint, Michigan we are paying $2.75 per gallon for regular unleaded. I am not sure about the premium.




I was just near Flint. I'm around Grand Rapids and it's close to $3.


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## fatgirlflyin (May 2, 2006)

Tina said:


> And $3.25 per gallon for premium. That's the price I saw at a local station here on the central coast of california.
> 
> How much are they charging for gas in your town/city?



I paid $3.18 yesterday
cost $60 to fill up my tank


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## Ladyrose1952 (May 2, 2006)

I drive for my job so I watch the prices of gas real close here as I drive anywhere from 200 to 600 miles a week, sometimes more.

Right now here in The Columbia River Gorge, I buy my gas at $2.99 a gallon. It don't mean that is won't go up soon again though. It has been up and down now for almost a year, so who knows what is will be next time I need a fill.

I find that my lil 2004 Chevy Malibu Sedan does real well for me in the amount of mileage I get per tank of gas.


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## Sandie S-R (May 2, 2006)

Miss Vickie said:


> $2.71, regular unleaded, Anchorage Alaska.



And today in San Diego at the Costco, premium was up to $3.53 a gallon. 

This is so depressing.


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## Ladyrose1952 (May 6, 2006)

Ladyrose1952 said:


> I drive for my job so I watch the prices of gas real close here as I drive anywhere from 200 to 600 miles a week, sometimes more.
> 
> Right now here in The Columbia River Gorge, I buy my gas at $2.99 a gallon. It don't mean that is won't go up soon again though. It has been up and down now for almost a year, so who knows what is will be next time I need a fill.
> 
> I find that my lil 2004 Chevy Malibu Sedan does real well for me in the amount of mileage I get per tank of gas.


 
*I change that, early this morning I paid $3.09 a gallon for regular at the Chevron Station in Hood River Oregon to fill my gas tank...$30.00 worth!:shocked:  *


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## Tina (May 6, 2006)

$3.42 now, with premium at $3.62.


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## Chimpi (May 6, 2006)

Tina said:


> $3.42 now, with premium at $3.62.



You get kudos for living.
Shit...


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