# Ladies- Lied to by men in relationships



## LoveBHMS (Jul 31, 2008)

I'd really like to hear if anyone else has stories about this sort of thing. I was talking to another woman about it who'd gone through something similar and I'm curious to hear others experiences.

I met a guy through work who I really liked. We had great chemistry and a ton of things in common. He told me he was single, which turned out to be a lie. Since we knew each other through work, we were in contact quite often over the course of several years. He continually told me he was not in love with his live in, had just sort of fallen into the relationship, and he would never marry her. I told him all along I knew it was all b.s. but we'd go through small blocks of time where we'd talk a lot or see each other socially. We never slept together and I did not put off other dates thinking he'd come around. He tried over and over to convince me he was really crazy about me and really wanted us to be a couple. On many occaisions, I'd tell him it was clear he was staying with his GF, but he would constantly tell me this was not true and their relationship was not even romantic and she even knew he'd never marry her, which of course he eventually did.

Has anyone else ever had a guy do this sort of thing? I don't mean taking off a wedding ring on a business trip to get you in bed or lying for sex, I mean trying to keep you romantically hooked over a long period of time.

What do you all think causes men to do this? Are they addicted to the newness of a new woman but want to keep the old one for comfort? Are they pathological liars or sociopaths?

What does everyone think?


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## Rowan (Jul 31, 2008)

I have not had this happen personally, but I think guys will do that just in case the woman they are with wises up and dumps their sorry asses. They want someone to fall back on.


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## LoveBHMS (Jul 31, 2008)

Rowan said:


> I have not had this happen personally, but I think guys will do that just in case the woman they are with wises up and dumps their sorry asses. They want someone to fall back on.



You know I really had not thought of that. I guess there are men who are so petrified to be alone that they need a farm team of potential dates even when they're with somebody.

Good observation.


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## JiminOR (Jul 31, 2008)

You know, men aren't the only ones who practice this kind of behavior. Speaking from experience here. I had a 2 year relationship with a woman who was married when I met her, yet she claimed to be divorced. Husband in Korea for a couple of years, divorced... that's the same thing, isn't it?


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## LoveBHMS (Jul 31, 2008)

JiminOR said:


> You know, men aren't the only ones who practice this kind of behavior. Speaking from experience here. I had a 2 year relationship with a woman who was married when I met her, yet she claimed to be divorced. Husband in Korea for a couple of years, divorced... that's the same thing, isn't it?



Oh absolutely not. I was not implying this behaviour was gender specific, just as a female my experience was with a man doing it.

Still be curious to know why you think somebody acts this way.


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## JiminOR (Aug 1, 2008)

As for the guys, there's just a certain subset of males out there that want to nail everything they can. And then some of them might be as you described earlier, so scared of being alone that they always have backups. But most of them are just trying to add notches to their belts. 

Why my ex did that to me? I have no idea. She was lonely, sure, but she also liked the drama of it I think, she had a tendency to overdramatize everything, and manufacture drama when none was available.


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## Olga_NYC (Aug 1, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> What do you all think causes men to do this? Are they addicted to the newness of a new woman but want to keep the old one for comfort? Are they pathological liars or sociopaths?
> 
> What does everyone think?




Hey, I'm sorry this happened to you. I had a similar problem with my guy but I was on the OTHER side of the situation. I was the "main partner" for 6 years, but the guy would pretend to be single, I guess for the hell of it? 

I also found him COUNTLESS times pretending to be single online. I caught him asking people out on Myspace, and other networking sites. Even posting personal ads!

But at the same time, he didn't seem to want to leave the relationship either, which I find baffling. 

I told him many times: If you like me, then please stop asking people out ... if you DON'T like me, then just leave!!! LOL 

You can't be with me and live your life as a single person! :doh: 

It's baffling. 

I still don't know what the motivation for them is. Perhaps the excitement of interacting with "new people", as you said.


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## TheMildlyStrangeone (Aug 1, 2008)

I think it works both ways. I am in a relationship but enjoy talking to different people--which includes women. So this one that I started talking to tries to get me to get out of my relationship (I did reveal that there are a lot of areas about it that I am unhappy in) even though I told her I was just looking for friends and interesting people to talk to.


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## AZ_Wolf (Aug 1, 2008)

In the above case, maybe that's the "thrill of the chase" or perhaps a desire to try to attain something "unattainable." 

I'd agree with two other possibilities brought up -- some guys just want to have as many different/new sex partners as they can. Maybe there's also some "thrill" in it for them in that they can be caught, in its own way like how many serial killers like to send letters to the police, taunting them.

Or that the person may just be too afraid of being alone. My first serious relationship was with a woman who was like this, though I didn't realize it at the time. She did this with the two guys she dated before me, then when she decided to move on from me, behind my back, she waited until she lined up another guy she was sure wanted her, then kicked me to the curb.


Olga: Why did you stay with the guy for so long when he had a demonstrated history of doing this when he was with you? It was far from "one moment of indescretion."


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 1, 2008)

AZ_Wolf said:


> In the above case, maybe that's the "thrill of the chase" or perhaps a desire to try to attain something "unattainable."
> 
> I'd agree with two other possibilities brought up -- some guys just want to have as many different/new sex partners as they can. Maybe there's also some "thrill" in it for them in that they can be caught, in its own way like how many serial killers like to send letters to the police, taunting them.
> 
> ...



Upon reflection, i don't think in this case it was the fear of being alone, since they guy had been with this same woman for a very long time without marrying her which I found out she had desperately wanted. She wasn't going anywhere.

Also, we did NOT have sex, which is why I said in my OP that he was not lying just to get laid. It was specifically that he wanted me to believe he had feelings for me which he did not have.


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## Olga_NYC (Aug 2, 2008)

AZ_Wolf said:


> Olga: Why did you stay with the guy for so long when he had a demonstrated history of doing this when he was with you? It was far from "one moment of indescretion."




Sorry, I'm not playing this game (played it many times with people who tried to turn my situation into "having someone to do with me"). I don't talk to guys who are taken. So it seems more logical for you to ask the OP why she was talking to a taken guy. Don't you think? But then again, I can understand her situation, so I don't blame her. Sometimes a guy will pursue you and not reveal that he is taken until you two are already friends of sorts . So I do sympathize with the OP. 

I just find it funny that some people will try to turn a cheating situation as a "problem of the one who was cheated on".


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## That1BigGirl (Aug 2, 2008)

I swear I have a sign only married men can see that says "please lie to me" or something of that sort.

1- I knew the guy via work for about 6 months, we worked for the same company round about- anyway never saw a ring, no ring marks nothing.. he was single etc etc.. we started dating. After about 4 months he was staying over even. Around about 6 months into our relationship (a year of knowing each other)... his wife calls me one day. Yeah. Not too good. I REALLY had NO CLUE he was married... can married men just randomly stay out all night at least once a week?

2- My marriage was a strain, she didn't understand me, blah blah- I don't really want a serious relationship, but after about 3 months, yes I do... for another 6 months all is well... Oh. I have to go home next week.. huh? Home? You mean the apartment you live in isn't your home you said it was? Yeah, about that... I am just up here on contract work for the year and I'm going home to my wife and kids because it's done now..... WTF?!?!

3- "I've been divorced a year" was really- I've been separated a year, I think she cheated on me, I may or may not get divorced, but we don't live together.


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## TheMildlyStrangeone (Aug 2, 2008)

Olga_NYC said:


> Sometimes a guy will pursue you and not reveal that he is taken until you two are already friends of sorts .



If you are friends with someone does that mean you are out to pursue them? I thought that's why you were friends and not something else. Of course the honesty factor does play in but some guys are just looking for friendship and like to have a diverse group of friends. Personally, I don't think there is anything wrong with a male-female relationship that has boundaries. Clearly you got tangled up with someone who is a deceiver and pathological liar. Those are the type to steer clear of.


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## WhiteHotRazor (Aug 2, 2008)

That1BigGirl said:


> I swear I have a sign only married men can see that says "please lie to me" or something of that sort.
> 
> 1- I knew the guy via work for about 6 months, we worked for the same company round about- anyway never saw a ring, no ring marks nothing.. he was single etc etc.. we started dating. After about 4 months he was staying over even. Around about 6 months into our relationship (a year of knowing each other)... his wife calls me one day. Yeah. Not too good. I REALLY had NO CLUE he was married... can married men just randomly stay out all night at least once a week?
> 
> ...



whoa you weren't lying about that sign


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## That1BigGirl (Aug 2, 2008)

WhiteHotRazor said:


> whoa you weren't lying about that sign



Nope. And there are more I can go on from there. I have had some wonderful non-married men in my life too don't get me wrong. The married ones just piss me off because I don't WANT a married man and I still carry around a lot of guilt about having relationship with these men (I don't say affairs, even if they were- I didn't KNOW they were married, so to me, it was a relationship... even if screwed up LOL).

Nooo I'm not bitter.


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## Canonista (Aug 2, 2008)

That1BigGirl said:


> I swear I have a sign only married men can see that says "please lie to me" or something of that sort.
> 
> 1- I knew the guy via work for about 6 months, we worked for the same company round about- anyway never saw a ring, no ring marks nothing.. he was single etc etc.. we started dating. After about 4 months he was staying over even. Around about 6 months into our relationship (a year of knowing each other)... his wife calls me one day. Yeah. Not too good. I REALLY had NO CLUE he was married... can married men just randomly stay out all night at least once a week?
> 
> ...



I can only imagine how that conversation went....

<---Divorce finaized in 2002. 

<--- Wonders when hot chick with blue hair is coming to Michigan.


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## olwen (Aug 2, 2008)

Love, I haven't had that happen to me in quite that way. I've had men lie and say they are single when they are married or have a single man lie about his intent. Saying he wanted something serious when he really didn't. When I ask the married ones why they would lie about it or why they aren't happy with their wives the answer always boils down to sex. Their wives won't participate in their fetishes or even do simple things like fellatio. I ask why they got married knowing all that and they say they still love their wives, which is probably true. I don't think they are sociopaths, just overwhelmed by their libidos, and this of course is something they'd never admit to. They want to have their cake and eat it too.


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## That1BigGirl (Aug 2, 2008)

Canonista said:


> I can only imagine how that conversation went....
> 
> <---Divorce finaized in 2002.
> 
> <--- Wonders when hot chick with blue hair is coming to Michigan.



You know, the conversation could have been a lot worse. I think she could tell that I really had no idea he was married (umm the complete sobbing on the phone when she told me who I was could have been a big clue)... it wasn't great by any means, but I think she knew that we'd both been played. (Though I saw him about a year later and they'd worked things out- he wasn't a bad person I don't think- just ... should not have done what he did).

REALLY? REALLY? You wouldn't lie to a girl would ya?

*looks around* No clue who that could be.... but the one blue haired girl I know said Michigan is too far North- she doesn't want her body turning blue from the cold.


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## That1BigGirl (Aug 2, 2008)

olwen said:


> Their wives won't participate in their fetishes or even do simple things like fellatio.



So if I stop going down, they'll stop following me around? :doh:


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## olwen (Aug 2, 2008)

That1BigGirl said:


> So if I stop going down, they'll stop following me around? :doh:



Sad, but probably true.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 2, 2008)

Olwen-

In my case, and in those of the other posters here, I really don't think it was about sex. If you want sex you can put an ad on "adultfriendfinder" or you can find another unhappily coupled person who wants an affair. Frankly those things are significantly easier than the time & emotional effort it takes to draw somebody into a fake relationship. I think you also have to have a cruel or deviant streak because you know the other woman thinks that you are her boyfriend/potential boyfriend or potential life partner. I think to behave as some of these men do, you have to have a sociopathic streak. I mean sociopath in the textbook sense of the word because you are operating with a total lack of empathy.


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## RentonBob (Aug 2, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Olwen-
> 
> In my case, and in those of the other posters here, I really don't think it was about sex. If you want sex you can put an ad on "adultfriendfinder" or you can find another unhappily coupled person who wants an affair. Frankly those things are significantly easier than the time & emotional effort it takes to draw somebody into a fake relationship. I think you also have to have a cruel or deviant streak because you know the other woman thinks that you are her boyfriend/potential boyfriend or potential life partner. I think to behave as some of these men do, you have to have a sociopathic streak. I mean sociopath in the textbook sense of the word because you are operating with a total lack of empathy.



I have to say though, it happens with both sexes. My ex did it to me and I came to find out that she had a number of "boyfriends". I don't think that it is gender related, I think it has to do with the person doing the cheating.


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## olwen (Aug 2, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Olwen-
> 
> In my case, and in those of the other posters here, I really don't think it was about sex. If you want sex you can put an ad on "adultfriendfinder" or you can find another unhappily coupled person who wants an affair. Frankly those things are significantly easier than the time & emotional effort it takes to draw somebody into a fake relationship. I think you also have to have a cruel or deviant streak because you know the other woman thinks that you are her boyfriend/potential boyfriend or potential life partner. I think to behave as some of these men do, you have to have a sociopathic streak. I mean sociopath in the textbook sense of the word because you are operating with a total lack of empathy.



I hear what you are saying, but I don't think anyone would put in that kind of effort for nothing - not even a sociopath. They have to be getting something out of it or think they are going to get something out of it whether it's to watch their victims uncomfortable reactions or for sex. I don't think it mattered to him that you weren't interested sexually. I'm sure in his mind he could convince you otherwise when he thought the time was right. He could just have ignored your feelings and lived a certain fantasy in his head....that's just my quess tho.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 2, 2008)

olwen said:


> I hear what you are saying, but I don't think anyone would put in that kind of effort for nothing - not even a sociopath. They have to be getting something out of it or think they are going to get something out of it *whether it's to watch their victims uncomfortable reactions *or for sex. I don't think it mattered to him that you weren't interested sexually. I'm sure in his mind he could convince you otherwise when he thought the time was right. He could just have ignored your feelings and lived a certain fantasy in his head....that's just my quess tho.



THAT I think is a big part of it. I was having a conversation in private about this and that very idea occurred to me, much in the way serial killers in crime stories say they get a rush out of seeing the victim's face when she knows she's going to die.

I was very much interested sexually, I just made it clear that nothing sexual would happen until the GF was gone. We had had some intimacy when we dated prior to my finding out he was not single.

But there has to be a deviant angle to _wanting somebody to believe you like them._ Maybe it's the need to be the object of adoration, and you know that won't come if the person knows up front that you're already in a relationship. Maybe they like being pursued or enjoy the feeling of being wanted without the emotional entanglement on their own part. You see them as a boyfriend and treat them as such, but they are more emotionally distant because they already have a partner and thus will never get hurt.


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## olwen (Aug 2, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> THAT I think is a big part of it. I was having a conversation in private about this and that very idea occurred to me, much in the way serial killers in crime stories say they get a rush out of seeing the victim's face when she knows she's going to die.
> 
> I was very much interested sexually, I just made it clear that nothing sexual would happen until the GF was gone. We had had some intimacy when we dated prior to my finding out he was not single.
> 
> *But there has to be a deviant angle to wanting somebody to believe you like them. *Maybe it's the need to be the object of adoration, and you know that won't come if the person knows up front that you're already in a relationship. Maybe they like being pursued or enjoy the feeling of being wanted without the emotional entanglement on their own part. You see them as a boyfriend and treat them as such, but they are more emotionally distant because they already have a partner and thus will never get hurt.




The only thing even remotely deviant about it is selfishness period. A selfish person says whatever they think you need to hear and behaves in whatever way they think you'll respond to so they can get what they want. Some people are better at manipulating people than others. That behavior is just a tool and a means to an end. He is just plain selfish and I honestly think that is all there is to it.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 2, 2008)

I think it has to go beyond simple selfishness. Look at the cases That1BigGirl is talking about; flat out lying about being divorced, lying about a living situation, lying about having a wife.

Those things take a lot of effort. Moreover, they require a desire or need to deceive the other person. It is very easy to simply be honest- "I'm separated but not divorced" or "I'm in town on a contract job for a year" or "I'm married but I'd like to f**k around with you."

There are plenty of women out there who don't want relationships or who would be fine with meaningless sexual encounters. The men That1BigGirl and I are talking about went to great lengths to be deceptive in order to make women think they were single and available. IOW, they were specifically trying to create situations where the "other woman" did not know she was "an other woman" and more importantly, didn't want to be.

Meaningless sex and casual dating are easy to find. If you want those things, you should simply be upfront about it, if for no other reason you will attract a likeminded partner. It's messed up to want a situation where the woman believes you to be emotionally available when you are not.


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## olwen (Aug 2, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> I think it has to go beyond simple selfishness. Look at the cases That1BigGirl is talking about; flat out lying about being divorced, lying about a living situation, lying about having a wife.
> 
> Those things take a lot of effort. Moreover, they require a desire or need to deceive the other person. It is very easy to simply be honest- "I'm separated but not divorced" or "I'm in town on a contract job for a year" or "I'm married but I'd like to f**k around with you."
> 
> ...



I agree with you 99%. That other one percent is the part of me that believes the simplest answer is pure selfishness. In my mind that motivation explains a lot of behavior. Why they are selfish is another story...Self esteem issues or not wanting to be rejected or caught, or just the powerful feeling of being able to manipulate well is probably the culprit. I also think it is easier to be honest and upfront from the get go, but I guess to these kinds of people it's easier to lie for whatever reasons...Like I said, I think they just want what they want and will do whatever it takes to try to get it.


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## That1BigGirl (Aug 3, 2008)

olwen said:


> I agree with you 99%. That other one percent is the part of me that believes the simplest answer is pure selfishness. In my mind that motivation explains a lot of behavior. Why they are selfish is another story...Self esteem issues or not wanting to be rejected or caught, or* just the powerful feeling of being able to manipulate well *is probably the culprit. I also think it is easier to be honest and upfront from the get go, but I guess to these kinds of people it's easier to lie for whatever reasons...Like I said, I think they just want what they want and will do whatever it takes to try to get it.




OHHHH Bingo! At least.. in one of my cases I think so.

Sometimes I wonder if I was just so young and stupid I didn't know better? Who knows.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 3, 2008)

You know, it's easy to blame ourselves for being stupid or gullible or naive.

But I think our frame of reference is that we expect others to behave in a normal, mentally healthy way, which is to simply say either "It was nice meeting you but I'm married" or "I will be up front about my situation. I'm in town for a year on a contract job. I'd love to spend time with you but you need to understand once this year is up, I am leaving town and going back to my family." That is how mature, reasonable people behave. I expect a grown man to act like it. Healthy people don't have a need to manipulate others, particularly when there is no benefit to them except for some effed up thrill in having deceived a woman who did nothing wrong but merely happened to like him. We're not talking about lying or manipulating somebody to get ahead in business or for material gain or revenge on somebody who has harmed you. If you are willing and able to put effort into lying to somebody just because it makes you feel good, there is something wrong with the person doing that, not the person who's hurt by it.


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## AZ_Wolf (Aug 3, 2008)

Olga_NYC said:


> Sorry, I'm not playing this game (played it many times with people who tried to turn my situation into "having someone to do with me"). I don't talk to guys who are taken. So it seems more logical for you to ask the OP why she was talking to a taken guy. Don't you think? But then again, I can understand her situation, so I don't blame her. Sometimes a guy will pursue you and not reveal that he is taken until you two are already friends of sorts . So I do sympathize with the OP.
> 
> I just find it funny that some people will try to turn a cheating situation as a "problem of the one who was cheated on".



Are you saying this is what I was doing? Because if so, I wasn't in the least bit. I wasn't assessing any blame. I was just curious why you didn't show him the door since from what you wrote, you caught him actively being unfaithful many times. And I'd think most people would kick the serial cheater to the curb in a flash (which is where he'd belong).


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## olwen (Aug 3, 2008)

AZ_Wolf said:


> Are you saying this is what I was doing? Because if so, I wasn't in the least bit. I wasn't assessing any blame. I was just curious why you didn't show him the door since from what you wrote, you caught him actively being unfaithful many times. And I'd think most people would kick the serial cheater to the curb in a flash (which is where he'd belong).



Sorry AZ, I don't agree here. While, it makes sense for the person being cheated on to leave the cheater, there are often many reasons why someone wouldn't kick a cheater to the curb after the first time.


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## JigglyJess (Aug 3, 2008)

That1BigGirl said:


> I swear I have a sign only married men can see that says "please lie to me" or something of that sort.
> 
> 1- I knew the guy via work for about 6 months, we worked for the same company round about- anyway never saw a ring, no ring marks nothing.. he was single etc etc.. we started dating. After about 4 months he was staying over even. Around about 6 months into our relationship (a year of knowing each other)... his wife calls me one day. Yeah. Not too good. I REALLY had NO CLUE he was married... can married men just randomly stay out all night at least once a week?
> 
> ...



I have to admit that I have been in a similar situation, as well as dated single guys who have cheated and it sucked, to say the least! lol Guys motivations or reasons for cheating are unique to the individual, or at least that is what I have found. Cheating is a sign of weakness, plain and simple, and stems from their low to no self esteem in conjunction with their current unhappiness in their relationship. It sounds like your guy was out of love with his wife, and looking to fulfill his needs for love, sex and attention. Everyone needs to feel good about themselves and feel wanted and will do whatever they have to, to achieve that goal, not thinking of the consequences of their actions or how it will affect the lives of everyone involved. I am sorry for what you have been through, just make sure you don't let it take control of you and make you bitter and not trusting of every man you meet because someday you will meet the right guy, they great guy who will not do those things to you and will be honest, loyal and loving!


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## fatboy1004 (Aug 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> What do you all think causes men to do this? Are they addicted to the newness of a new woman but want to keep the old one for comfort?



I'd bet that in most cases it's the old "everyone is excited by the idea of someone new" idea, rather than the "all men are evil sociopaths" idea. (By the way, I've had women do the same thing to me, too.) 

It happens. Perhaps you get bored with the one you're with because you've been dating forever, or there's a hot fatty in accounting that really catches your eye all of a sudden, or your relationship is on the rocks for whatever reason, and you think flirting with someone is harmless...not defending it, just saying it happens. 

And sure, sometimes the person even goes back to the first guy/girl -- maybe it turns out the current chick isn't that bad, or she gets her shit together in whatever way was bumming you out, or she threatens to bail on _you_ and you realize what a good deal you actually have after all, or whatever. 

Nothing focuses you in on how good things actually are in your current relationship until you're faced with not the prospect of not having it.

ADDED:

This of course doesn't mean it's OK to lie to people about being married or involved. That's different. I was referring to "I'm in a relationship, but it's ending," or "Yeah, I'm living with someone, but she isn't the one for me," as mentioned by the OP. Lying about being married is, um, bad.


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## sweet&fat (Aug 3, 2008)

It's the fantasy aspect of getting to be with a new person- not just sex. It's like when you get to re-invent yourself (to whatever degree) when you meet new people. The cheater doesn't have to give up the security of a relationship (sticking with the devil you know out of love, obligation, etc.), but can pretend to be/live out the single/different person and experience new excitement, ego boost, interests, etc. Obviously him repeatedly denying what he was in fact doing is him not wanting to spoil the fantasy with the harsh truth of how much he was an ass to do that to you and her. 



LoveBHMS said:


> I think it has to go beyond simple selfishness. Look at the cases That1BigGirl is talking about; flat out lying about being divorced, lying about a living situation, lying about having a wife.
> 
> Those things take a lot of effort. Moreover, they require a desire or need to deceive the other person. It is very easy to simply be honest- "I'm separated but not divorced" or "I'm in town on a contract job for a year" or "I'm married but I'd like to f**k around with you."
> 
> ...


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 4, 2008)

sweet&fat said:


> It's the fantasy aspect of getting to be with a new person- not just sex. It's like when you get to re-invent yourself (to whatever degree) when you meet new people. The cheater doesn't have to give up the security of a relationship (sticking with the devil you know out of love, obligation, etc.), but can pretend to be/live out the single/different person and experience new excitement, ego boost, interests, etc. Obviously him repeatedly denying what he was in fact doing is him not wanting to spoil the fantasy with the harsh truth of how much he was an ass to do that to you and her.



More good points S&F. Maybe it's kind of like that old "it's not just I like you I like the person i'm with when i'm with you". Or in the cheater's case "I like the person I'm pretendng to be better than the person I actually am." That is a good rationale for carrying on a lie for months or years at a time.



> I'd bet that in most cases it's the old "everyone is excited by the idea of someone new" idea, rather than the "all men are evil sociopaths" idea. (By the way, I've had women do the same thing to me, too.)



I never said all men are evil sociopaths. I said there has to be something wrong with a person to behave the way these guys did, and knowingly hurt the woman in question (That1BigGirl and me). We were both talking about very lengthy and deliberate courses of lying that resulted in a world of hurt for us, not harmless flirtation


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 4, 2008)

missaf said:


> Chiming in late here:
> 
> I think it's either the fear of being alone, or the fear of conflict.
> 
> ...



You know that is an effing *genius* observation, that somebody has both a fear of being alone and a fear of commitment. Because a great way to satisfy those fears is by being with somebody you don't really like or love. You're not alone because there is somebody there with you, BUT you don't feel too tied down or vulnerable because you are not in love with them.

I always have to wonder how the women in these situations feel. Like did the woman into whose arms your ex FWB ran, did she know he didn't like her? Could he fake that? Was she in love with him and wanted him so desperately that she kidded herself?


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## mrskeet (Aug 13, 2008)

I say it's best to be honest in a relationship or if your trying to get into a relationship. Me I'm single but I guess I'm too quote nice. I don't cheat I notice sadly a lot of ladies today who seem to want the guys who do cheat. maybe a lot of dudes who do cheat are so use to being with a gang of women they know what to say to women and get in their head. Me maybe I'm too old fashion for example if I'm dating a woman I wouldn't even mess with another woman even if she flirted with me and tried to make me cheat with her. I rather kick it with one lady and have fun with that lady. I have some friends who say they get bored with being with just one woman they call me mr. nothing mainly because they say I offer no challenge to a woman because they say being faithful is boring. So maybe thats why I'm single I guess I'm too old fashion and I'm not a playa and I guess that don't work today.


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## Surlysomething (Aug 13, 2008)

People bad.
Pets good.



:bow:


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## That1BigGirl (Aug 13, 2008)

For some reason I missed this reply earlier! (Sorry about that)

I'm occasionally bitter. But, I think we all get that way at times.  Most of all I just figure ... thank goodness I found out sooner than later. And I run people by my friends too- seems when my friends say their funky meter is going off.. they are often correct.



JigglyJess said:


> I have to admit that I have been in a similar situation, as well as dated single guys who have cheated and it sucked, to say the least! lol Guys motivations or reasons for cheating are unique to the individual, or at least that is what I have found. Cheating is a sign of weakness, plain and simple, and stems from their low to no self esteem in conjunction with their current unhappiness in their relationship. It sounds like your guy was out of love with his wife, and looking to fulfill his needs for love, sex and attention. Everyone needs to feel good about themselves and feel wanted and will do whatever they have to, to achieve that goal, not thinking of the consequences of their actions or how it will affect the lives of everyone involved. I am sorry for what you have been through, just make sure you don't let it take control of you and make you bitter and not trusting of every man you meet because someday you will meet the right guy, they great guy who will not do those things to you and will be honest, loyal and loving!


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 14, 2008)

> People bad.
> Pets good.



A reverse Orwell, four legs good two legs bad. Love it.



> I am sorry for what you have been through, just make sure you don't let it take control of you and make you bitter and not trusting of every man you meet because someday you will meet the right guy, they great guy who will not do those things to you and will be honest, loyal and loving!



I've never felt what I would call _bitter_ about this situation. I honestly don't think it affects how I wound up feeling about others, not like "oh all men are dishonest and nobody is above suspicion." I think it left me feeling bad about myself, wondering why I'd attract somebody like that. I figure a man looking to cheat, or one who enjoys lying and manipulation is going to look for a certain type of target, so I've wound up wondering why he'd have chosen me. Like what would be so wrong with me that a man with many available women would pick me to f**K around with.


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## olwen (Aug 14, 2008)

Love, you are not responsible for someone else's sense of integrity and honesty. None of us are. That he would want to cheat doesn't have anything to do with you or the other woman. C'est la vie.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 14, 2008)

olwen said:


> Love, you are not responsible for someone else's sense of integrity and honesty. None of us are. That he would want to cheat doesn't have anything to do with you or the other woman. C'est la vie.



Actually what I meant is, this has happened to me twice where a man flat out lied about being available and made a very obvious and aggressive effort to pretend to pursue dating me.

Obviously, if somebody is in a relationship and decides to cheat that is about that person and his lack of honesty and integrity. But what some of us wonder is why they choose us to cheat with. That1BigGirl said it has also happened to her more than once, so (not speaking for her) it makes you wonder if something about you attracts these men.


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## KendraLee (Aug 14, 2008)

I dont care why they lie but they do. And I'm not here to argue the point that women lie too. I know we do but I try not to. I think men who dont tell you they are married or have a live in girlfriend just dont care about the other persons feelings one bit. In my book if you don't consider another persons feelings then your not that decent of a person. At one time I felt like I had a sign across my forehead that read attached men apply inside. I cant count the numerous men I've met or first dates I've been on who were married or living with their girlfriend. One man picked me up with the baby seat still in the back seat. Several questions later led to he sleeps on the couch and they're no longer having sex. Funny because when I looked in the mirror before leaving the house I didnt remember having written the word stupid on my face with my eyeliner. And he was from a dating site. A mans relationship status isnt the only lies Ive heard from men. I had a man lie about his ethnicity. His profile pics were of a white guy and after talking to the guy on the phone a few times and making plans to meet I ended up finding out the guy was African American. The guy from my last relationship lied about everything he could possibly lie about- cars, money, houses, where he lived, what he did. I came to realize he wasnt much of a talker because he couldnt remember what lies he told to what women. One of the women I ended up meeting online and comparing notes with. What fun that was. I don't know, do I sound bitter? What I'm bitter about is how paranoid and distrusting its made me. I find myself analyzing everything that is said to me and searching for the hidden meanings behind mens words. But the sad thing is the hidden meaning is usually there. And the simplest lie of all, "I'll call ya". Why bother saying it if youre not going to. Its just unnecessary.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 14, 2008)

KendraLee said:


> I dont care why they lie but they do. And I'm not here to argue the point that women lie too. I know we do but I try not to. *I think men who dont tell you they are married or have a live in girlfriend just dont care about the other persons feelings one bit. In my book if you don't consider another persons feelings then your not that decent of a person. *At one time I felt like I had a sign across my forehead that read attached men apply inside. I cant count the numerous men I've met or first dates I've been on who were married or living with their girlfriend. One man picked me up with the baby seat still in the back seat. Several questions later led to he sleeps on the couch and they're no longer having sex. Funny because when I looked in the mirror before leaving the house I didnt remember having written the word stupid on my face with my eyeliner. And he was from a dating site. A mans relationship status isnt the only lies Ive heard from men. I had a man lie about his ethnicity. His profile pics were of a white guy and after talking to the guy on the phone a few times and making plans to meet I ended up finding out the guy was African American. The guy from my last relationship lied about everything he could possibly lie about- cars, money, houses, where he lived, what he did. I came to realize he wasnt much of a talker because he couldnt remember what lies he told to what women. One of the women I ended up meeting online and comparing notes with. What fun that was. I don't know, do I sound bitter? What I'm bitter about is how paranoid and distrusting its made me. I find myself analyzing everything that is said to me and searching for the hidden meanings behind mens words. But the sad thing is the hidden meaning is usually there. And the simplest lie of all, "I'll call ya". Why bother saying it if youre not going to. Its just unnecessary.



Exactly. That is why I said men who behave this way have to have a deviant streak, because you would have to lack empathy to not realize you're going to hurt the other person. Again, we're NOT talking about one night stands or casual sex, these are men on dating sites pretending to be single and actively seeking out single women. They know going into it they are going to be lying to somebody and leading somebody on who is on that site looking for a date and maybe a boyfriend or husband.

The sad thing as far as how i've come to view men is, I actually applaud the ones who are open about being married/in relationships and tell you up front what their status is and that what they want is to cheat. I do not in any way condone cheating, but I do condone honesty. Yes these men are lying to their partners, but presumably they don't want them to know what they are doing and thus are at least trying to spare both the partner's feelings and the mistress's feelings. At least they don't pretend to be "nice guys" just looking for a date and then playing the pity card of "well yes i'm in a relationship but i'm not happy."


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## KendraLee (Aug 14, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Exactly. That is why I said men who behave this way have to have a deviant streak, because you would have to lack empathy to not realize you're going to hurt the other person. Again, we're NOT talking about one night stands or casual sex, these are men on dating sites pretending to be single and actively seeking out single women. They know going into it they are going to be lying to somebody and leading somebody on who is on that site looking for a date and maybe a boyfriend or husband.
> 
> The sad thing as far as how i've come to view men is, I actually applaud the ones who are open about being married/in relationships and tell you up front what their status is and that what they want is to cheat. I do not in any way condone cheating, but I do condone honesty. Yes these men are lying to their partners, but presumably they don't want them to know what they are doing and thus are at least trying to spare both the partner's feelings and the mistress's feelings. At least they don't pretend to be "nice guys" just looking for a date and then playing the pity card of "well yes i'm in a relationship but i'm not happy."



completely agree with both points and have had men be honest right from the get go but for me personally the honesty up front isnt any more acceptable. Its not where I'm at in my life or what I'm looking for. Nothing good comes out of it and I almost feel like it invites those type of relationships into your life. But thats getting all philosophical so I won't go there.


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## olwen (Aug 14, 2008)

I see what you both are saying. I'm sure practically every woman here can tell similar stories. I honestly don't think it has to do with us so much as it does the jackass who thinks he's the shit. How they pick their prey is anybody's quess. I don't know that it's something they are always conscious of either. There is that sense of male entitlement some guys have. It just makes em feel like they shouldn't have to work hard to get what they want. Or do anythig to keep it. It may very well happen again, but you know, you just gotta tear out all the weeds so the flowers can grow. Probably not helpful, but that's all I got at this hour.


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