# Leaving the size acceptance movement?



## T_Devil (Jan 9, 2009)

_First off, I want to make this clear, I'm not doing this to get people to beg me not to leave. I'm writing this to pose serious questions that has a lot of complexities. For all intents and purposes, I'm not giving up on the Size Acceptance movement, but I want answers as a person who's belief in it has been severely shaken.

This is not a good-bye thread. I don't believe in them._

_With all of that said..._

Lately, my heart just hasn't been in it. Lately, I've just been thinking to myself if there are more meaningful causes I can be devoting my time to. I mean, everything I think and believe always seems to be contrary to people who I consider peers thinks. Am I just defective or what?

This frustration turns into anger, but what am I mad at? I don't know. So I have this seething and festering sense of frustration and anger at this thing that I put my heart into. It's killing me. i literally feel like my heart is being ripped out of my body by people I respect(ed). It's a deep sense of betrayal not just at Dimensions, but at the movement itself.

I say that because I've begun to question my own motives. It's no secret I'm a supporter of the Adult Oriented side of the movement. I like being involved in that aspect of it because it's something I'm comfortable with and i have made many good friends there. Some of those people I would consider best friends. So, because I'm so heavily ensconced in that aspect of the world of size, does it make what I feel any less valid. If that's not it, why do I feel that way?

I want to understand what I'm feeling as this isn't the first time this has happened, but this is the first time that I felt as though that it's all not worth it anymore. I contribute a lot to many people. Not as much as some of you, I'm sure, but I do what I can.

I'm not jumping ship on them because they respect my process of belief and I in turn, respect them. But they are not the world. Dimensions is my window into a world outside of the circle I run in and what I see breaks my heart because what I believe seems to be so incredibly wrong by some people that it just has to be stuffed up my ass and snapped off.

My feelings and opinions didn't just happen over night. It's taken YEARS. Some of my feelings are older than some of our younger contributors. This fact alone just makes me feel old, but it tells me that I've had a long time to think about these things as well.

So, if my opinions are wrong, (which is what I believe is the crux of the problem with me) Who's opinions are the right ones? Why have I missed this piece of enlightenment? Am I doing something wrong? All I ever wanted was to do _something_ to help out in something I believed in and cared about. Now I just feel like the more I say, the less valid my opinions are. I don't know what else to do and that is really messing me up.

_this isn't just about me, this is for anyone who has felt what I'm feeling. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way. I can't be. So, if anyone feels this same way, I wrote this on your behalf as well because I think we all need some guidance. For a long time, I thought I knew what I was doing was right, but recently that feeling has just gone away from me._


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## goodthings (Jan 10, 2009)

T_Devil said:


> _First off, I want to make this clear, I'm not doing this to get people to beg me not to leave. I'm writing this to pose serious questions that has a lot of complexities. For all intents and purposes, I'm not giving up on the Size Acceptance movement, but I want answers as a person who's belief in it has been severely shaken.
> 
> This is not a good-bye thread. I don't believe in them._
> 
> ...



I am sorry, but I do not understand. I am still relatively new here and am confused as to what it is that you are no longer comfortable with. I do wish you well though


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## Candy_Coated_Clown (Jan 10, 2009)

Hmmmm...can't say I understand exactly what it is that you are in conflict with. I think it would be best to elaborate on those details.

Are you struggling with reasons of why you might be attracted to fatter builds, especially in the realm of adult websites and forums?

Are you struggling with reasons of why you have invested a deep interest in a "fat subculture" so to speak?

Are you saying that you've defined too much of your life by your involvement in Fat movement circles and now you feel you need to experience a "bigger playing field" socially?


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## Ned Sonntag (Jan 10, 2009)

Say hi to Jesus for me.


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## FaxMachine1234 (Jan 10, 2009)

Yeah, I have no idea what any of what you wrote meant. Specifics?


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## Paquito (Jan 10, 2009)

Along with the others, I'm not really sure what you mean.

But what I think you're trying to say is that your frustrated with how the movement is going, and its impact (or lack thereof) on the world. Well if that's the case, then you really need a reality check. Change takes time. Alot of time. And it takes a level of commitment to cause change in the world that you clearly lack. So peace out, Devil.


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## moore2me (Jan 10, 2009)

T_Devil,

Can I have your locker? (Mine is in the basement by the boiler room.) Thanks.

M2M


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## Sugar (Jan 10, 2009)

Does everything surrounding being a FA, BBW, BHM, FFA have to be a cause or a movement?

Seriously is it so bad to just enjoy something and enjoy the company of people that share interests without it turning into some sort of cause?

Perhaps because I live in Colorado and Boulder at that and I'm the only fat person I know there is no "cause". I'm me and my friends and relationships have less to do with fat than who I am.

It sounds to me like you're maybe trying to find deep solace in a wading pool. Of course as the others have said, without specifics of what you really mean I'm just guessing.


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## Ernest Nagel (Jan 10, 2009)

"Do what you feel in your heart to be right - for you'll be criticized anyway." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt 

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~ Friedrich Nietzsche 

:bow:


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## Hole (Jan 10, 2009)

You are being dramatic. No one is asking you to be a martyr or to change the world.
You accept all sizes, maybe even admire certain sizes, right? Then hang around, post/browse when you have the time. It's that simple. You don't even have to be part of a forum to be accepting of others. Seriously.. relax.


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## steely (Jan 10, 2009)

My favorite phrase,You can't please everyone,so you got to please yourself.


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Jan 10, 2009)

Ned Sonntag said:


> Say hi to Jesus for me.


One of the guys I work with is named Jesus. But he pronounces it "hay-SOOS".


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## T_Devil (Jan 10, 2009)

Lucky said:


> Does everything surrounding being a FA, BBW, BHM, FFA have to be a cause or a movement?
> 
> Seriously is it so bad to just enjoy something and enjoy the company of people that share interests without it turning into some sort of cause?
> 
> ...





Ernest Nagel said:


> "Do what you feel in your heart to be right - for you'll be criticized anyway." ~ Eleanor Roosevelt
> 
> "The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." ~ Friedrich Nietzsche
> 
> :bow:


Thank you for understanding.

When I'm angry, I tend to go off. Doesn't change the fact that there are a few pricks here that act like elitist assholes because they've been here forever and are well liked and untouchable, but whatever, they suck. I don't have to like them. 



moore2me said:


> T_Devil,
> 
> Can I have your locker? (Mine is in the basement by the boiler room.) Thanks.
> 
> M2M



No.
You're welcome.



Ekim said:


> Yeah, I have no idea what any of what you wrote meant. Specifics?


Specifically, this train wreck: A detriment or a benefit to fat acceptance? 
I get it, people have an opinion but when someone asks for it and you give it, then get nailed for having an opinion and being told in so many ways you're wrong, is fucked up. If I wanted that kind of abuse, I'd go to Hyde Park. Those of you who know me know that I post there often, but not lately. Sometimes, people just get sick of it. So I guess I'm mad at the fact that IN GENERAL, no matter where you go here, in Dimensions, it's just gonna SUCK if you don't think like the brainiac fucks that make this place as a whole unbearable and a generally miserable experience for those just wishing to express how they feel.

Dimensions is not a safe haven for dissent. It's just another place where people push you around. If I wanted that kind of shit, I'd let the jocks at the gym stare at me and talk smack because I have a fat ass.

Glad to know Dimensions is so fucking different. _Note the sarcasm._


Ned Sonntag said:


> Say hi to Jesus for me.


Said Hi. He told me to tell you to go to church.



goodthings said:


> I am sorry, but I do not understand. I am still relatively new here and am confused as to what it is that you are no longer comfortable with. I do wish you well though


Stick around, the next drama will begin promptly.



free2beme04 said:


> Along with the others, I'm not really sure what you mean.
> 
> But what I think you're trying to say is that your frustrated with how the movement is going, and its impact (or lack thereof) on the world. Well if that's the case, then you really need a reality check. Change takes time. Alot of time. And it takes a level of commitment to cause change in the world that you clearly lack. So peace out, Devil.


Didn't anyone read the part where I said "_*For all intents and purposes, I'm not giving up on the Size Acceptance movement, but I want answers as a person who's belief in it has been severely shaken.*_"
For the love of God people! I can't leave the size acceptance movement because I'm invested deeply into it. I can't back out nor do I want to.

This end of it though, the "Dimensions Crowd" really has knocked me for a loop. They're nice.... then one of their road scholars comes along and talks down on you because you believe something different. Like I said, Hyde Park, I expect the mental assault and battery, but I have to be on my guard all over this joint? Fuck that, if that's the case, this place sucks.



steely said:


> My favorite phrase,You can't please everyone,so you got to please yourself.


ok, I'm being neutral and sincere when I ask you this: Is that actual sentiment designed to help me out and make me feel better or is it a veiled form of saying "go fuck yourself, jerk-off". 

Forgive me, it's hard to tell when people are being sincere and when they are being sarcastic.



Hole said:


> You are being dramatic. No one is asking you to be a martyr or to change the world.
> You accept all sizes, maybe even admire certain sizes, right? Then hang around, post/browse when you have the time. It's that simple. You don't even have to be part of a forum to be accepting of others. Seriously.. relax.


Ok, don't dictate my feelings to me. That pisses me off. It also makes me angry because it's people I don't know making assumptions about me without knowing why I feel the way I feel. Get to know me before you tell me to relax. Don't want to know me? That works too.
I can be nice.
I can be a fucking jerk.
There are people here that can bear testimony to both.

It's all in how people approach me.


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## Paquito (Jan 10, 2009)

T_Devil said:


> Didn't anyone read the part where I said "_*For all intents and purposes, I'm not giving up on the Size Acceptance movement, but I want answers as a person who's belief in it has been severely shaken.*_"
> For the love of God people! I can't leave the size acceptance movement because I'm invested deeply into it. I can't back out nor do I want to.
> 
> This end of it though, the "Dimensions Crowd" really has knocked me for a loop. They're nice.... then one of their road scholars comes along and talks down on you because you believe something different. Like I said, Hyde Park, I expect the mental assault and battery, but I have to be on my guard all over this joint? Fuck that, if that's the case, this place sucks.



Forgive me, but when you start a thread with the title "Leaving the size acceptance movement," it tends to throw me for a loop, I'm only human though.

Maybe the title should've been "I'm having difficulty with my position in the fat acceptance movement" or "Can I get some questions answered" or something along the lines of that.

Now if you could kindly get off your high horse and realize that Dims (and its members) are far from perfect, I bet you'd have a better time here.


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## Blackjack (Jan 10, 2009)

T_Devil said:


> This end of it though, the "Dimensions Crowd" really has knocked me for a loop. They're nice.... then one of their road scholars comes along and talks down on you because you believe something different.



Really, I don't think that it's a matter of a difference of opinion, I think that it's because you flat-out stated 



T_Devil said:


> DETRIMENT!
> Just because I hate the artwork. I'm sorry if people like it, I don't.



And then you refused to respond with any sort of a reasonable defense for your statements. Instead, you just insulted people.


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## Sugar (Jan 10, 2009)

T_Devil said:


> Thank you for understanding.
> 
> When I'm angry, I tend to go off. Doesn't change the fact that there are a few pricks here that act like elitist assholes because they've been here forever and are well liked and untouchable, but whatever, they suck. I don't have to like them.
> 
> ...




Gosh no real clarification from you but it sounds like you're angry that people in the community aren't nice to you. 

Um...not to be crass but there is no rule anywhere that says people have to be nice to you. Sometimes you get what you give and sometimes lifes unfair. Either way...I won't say stop being so sensitive but confusing meandering thoughts about the kindness of an entire community will not get you the kindness you hope for in return.


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## T_Devil (Jan 10, 2009)

Candy_Coated_Clown said:


> Hmmmm...can't say I understand exactly what it is that you are in conflict with. I think it would be best to elaborate on those details.
> 
> *1. *Are you struggling with reasons of why you might be attracted to fatter builds, especially in the realm of adult websites and forums?
> 
> ...



I'm sorry I missed this one. This is one I like. Your rep is in the mail.

Answers.

*1. *Not particularly. I've settled up those reasons years and years ago. I'm very much passed them. It's a part of my life given my occupation (Clerk at an adult bookstore) and that I have friends who have and maintain adult websites. So this aspect is as part of my life as anything.

*2. * Well, I find that I don't want to be slotted away into one all encompassing group. I'm a fat girl admirer, but as far as anything else goes, not so much. I just like fat girls. I don't have a fetish unless being fat is a fetish. If it is, then it's the only fetish I have.... _I guess_. I'm not a feeder. I don't desire to be a feedee. I don't get off on weight gain. I don't find immobilization sexy at all, I see it as a social detriment and something that can only be described as "Don't let this happen to you." 

I don't mind being fat. If I lost some weight, fine. It irritates me there are people who get mad at fat people for losing weight. Because someone drops a few pound all the sudden they're undesirable? Talk about size discrimination! It pisses me off that this "movement" preaches one thing, but practices another. 

Either practice size tolerance or don't practice it. Don't half ass it though because it makes the true believers look bad.

*3. *Not really. I tend to be an insular person. I don't need to be out in a whole lot of social circles, but I'm aware that the world doesn't revolve around me and what I believe. Eventually, worlds will collide. My contribution has always been trying to get people to feel their own worth. Encouragement of the positive, avoidance of the negative. Basic things that sometimes we (myself included) lose site of. Sometimes I need to be reminded.

As far as "the outside world" goes, fuck 'em. I have given up on trying to impress them or teach them anything. If they are willing to learn and listen to what i say with the most open and serious mind, I'm willing to talk to them. all too often it's just a bullshit slap in the face, so I tend to be dismissive towards them, their culture and their mission statements.

So, when my faith in my people is shaken, it really kind of fucks me up a little bit.

I hope these answers are satisfactory.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 10, 2009)

Hey dude - don't let the bastards get you down. Everything I post these days is either ignored, or I get insulted or people think calling me names is productive. Do I care? It depends on the time of month. LOL

Go if you have to - but take some time and come on back. If your opinions anger people enough that they have to insult you - then you hit a nerve and that's always a good thing. 

Joke 'em if they can't take a fuck dude!!





T_Devil said:


> _First off, I want to make this clear, I'm not doing this to get people to beg me not to leave. I'm writing this to pose serious questions that has a lot of complexities. For all intents and purposes, I'm not giving up on the Size Acceptance movement, but I want answers as a person who's belief in it has been severely shaken.
> 
> This is not a good-bye thread. I don't believe in them._
> 
> ...


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## T_Devil (Jan 10, 2009)

free2beme04 said:


> Forgive me, but when you start a thread with the title "Leaving the size acceptance movement," it tends to throw me for a loop, I'm only human though.


My mistake. I will admit to it.



free2beme04 said:


> Maybe the title should've been "I'm having difficulty with my position in the fat acceptance movement" or "Can I get some questions answered" or something along the lines of that.


Again, I was angry when I wrote it. Remember when I said I have anger issues? If you didn't know? Yeah, I kind of have a temper.
I didn't think anyone would have cared either way. Regardless though, I'm a humiliated jackass and now this thread will go on 40 or 50 pages talking about me and what a jack ass I am.


free2beme04 said:


> Now if you could kindly get off your high horse and realize that Dims (and its members) are far from perfect, I bet you'd have a better time here.


No.
I don't have a high horse. I have an expectation. See, other forums around here have this protective shield around them where people can say and write whatever they want an NOT be attacked for it. I know this because I've been told and I have respected the rules.

I don't expect people to be perfect, god knows I'm not. I guess I had a high expectation of this place. I apologize. As for having a better time around here...

...I'm not going to hold my breath.


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## SocialbFly (Jan 10, 2009)

I guess i dont take it as personally as you do, which surprises me, cause i take everything personally...

what i know and have always known is that you cant agree with everyone and at the end of the day the only person you have to answer to or make right to, is yourself...

my opinion, yours, everyone elses, well, they are all just that, an opinion, we are all formed with those when we were raised and when we later raised ourselves...

doesnt make you, me or anyone else more or less right, it is just what works for them...

maybe take a break, we have all had to do that here from time to time, because sometimes things hit harder to home and point the mirror at us in both good and bad ways...

but like others have said, in the end, the only person you have to please is yourself...that being said, good luck.

(and just a question, is this any less of a train wreck than the other one you qouted?)


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## T_Devil (Jan 10, 2009)

Blackjack said:


> Really, I don't think that it's a matter of a difference of opinion, I think that it's because you flat-out stated
> 
> 
> 
> And then you refused to respond with any sort of a reasonable defense for your statements. Instead, you just insulted people.



RATIONAL DEFENSE???
IT WAS A FUCKING OPINION!!!

I even apologized if people didn't like it. I apologize for believing something. Does it have to be rational to just BELIEVE something? If that's the case, there are a whole lot of religious people in the world who are just fucked....or they strap a bomb to their chest and stroll into a crowded market place.

POINT IS sometimes people just believe something.

And people think *I* ride a high horse!


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## Paquito (Jan 10, 2009)

T_Devil said:


> It irritates me there are people who get mad at fat people for losing weight. Because someone drops a few pound all the sudden they're undesirable? Talk about size discrimination! It pisses me off that this "movement" preaches one thing, but practices another.
> 
> Either practice size tolerance or don't practice it. Don't half ass it though because it makes the true believers look bad.



For the record, I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Acceptance is a two way street after all.

And if it helps, a bulk of my posts involve movie titles and changing letters, so you're probably taken more serious than I .


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## Tooz (Jan 10, 2009)

Remember kids: Dims is a Fat Admiration site, not a Size Acceptance site.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 10, 2009)

Dude you're singin my song. LOL

There is no point in questioning it - just ignore it and carry on. 





T_Devil said:


> RATIONAL DEFENSE???
> IT WAS A FUCKING OPINION!!!
> 
> I even apologized if people didn't like it. I apologize for believing something. Does it have to be rational to just BELIEVE something? If that's the case, there are a whole lot of religious people in the world who are just fucked....or they strap a bomb to their chest and stroll into a crowded market place.
> ...


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## AnnMarie (Jan 10, 2009)

T, you and I go back a bit... here and elsewhere. I know you take things way too seriously sometimes, and way too personally sometimes. 

I think you want to see passion and unity, when in reality they exist in few places. Sometimes the best way to be an advocate for size acceptance or whatever you want to promote is JUST living it. You do that, you're a proud FA, a proud fat man, etc. Just keep doing that. This stuff <<here>> is just some other thing. Most of us do our thing in other places, in other ways, by small conversations with collegues or random strangers when something odd about fat comes up. It's (God help me) daily activism. The movement, based on fat alone, will NEVER be unified. It won't be. It's all different agendas, different motivations, different ideas of what we all want. 

I think the only thing most can agree on is we want to just "be". Leave me alone, let me be me, like who I want, be liked by whoever wants, get jobs I deserve, etc. Those are great things. NAAFA used to be about those things, now it's messed up. Hopefully that won't always be the case. 


I'm not dismissing, but just.... chilll..... out. You try so hard to be so much to so many, to have this and that be so much to so many, you miss the good stuff in the small places. You internalize the bad so much you miss the good, the small moments, the sweet comments, they're all here. I wouldn't waste my time on a place that was the festering shit hole that you sometimes accuse it of. I just wouldn't - my life and time are worth much, more more than that. 

Anyway... I'm glad you shared, it's not a big deal, we all have struggles with all this junk. Just take a breath and time if you need it... this too will pass.


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## Mini (Jan 10, 2009)

Tooz said:


> Remember kids: Dims is a Fat Admiration site, not a Size Acceptance site.



Quoted because it bears repeating.


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## T_Devil (Jan 10, 2009)

Lucky said:


> Gosh no real clarification from you but it sounds like you're angry that people in the community aren't nice to you.
> 
> Um...not to be crass but there is no rule anywhere that says people have to be nice to you. Sometimes you get what you give and sometimes lifes unfair. Either way...I won't say stop being so sensitive but confusing meandering thoughts about the kindness of an entire community will not get you the kindness you hope for in return.



No, I'm pissed because everybody else can have their opinion. Me? I say something and i have to have volumes of text and proof and research and charts and diagrams n shit. I don't give a fuck if people are nice to me.

Does it look like I'm TRYING to win friends?

There are certain things i tend to believe and when people ask my opinion of certain things, especially how the relate to the image of size acceptance, they're gonna get my opinion and how I really feel.


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## Paquito (Jan 10, 2009)

Tooz said:


> Remember kids: Dims is a Fat Admiration site, not a Size Acceptance site.



Thank god we can just jack off here and not have to worry about other people's problems. 
Are you down with OPP? Yea you know me...


Hope you like that bit of sarcasm


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## Mini (Jan 10, 2009)

T_Devil said:


> No, I'm pissed because everybody else can have their opinion. Me? I say something and i have to have volumes of text and proof and research and charts and diagrams n shit. I don't give a fuck if people are nice to me.
> 
> Does it look like I'm TRYING to win friends?
> 
> There are certain things i tend to believe and when people ask my opinion of certain things, especially how the relate to the image of size acceptance, they're gonna get my opinion and how I really feel.



1) It looks like you're failing to win friends. You're not trying too hard enough.

2) You're allowed to have an opinion, but if it's stupid, you've got to be able to back it up with something better than FUCK YOU WHY ARE YOU PICKING ON ME.


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## neah (Jan 10, 2009)

Tooz said:


> Remember kids: Dims is a Fat Admiration site, not a Size Acceptance site.



Ok I am new to all of this. What does that mean it is not a size acceptance site but a fat admiration site? I thought the point of dims was to accept people of all sizes as well as a place where you can talk about being an FA or whatever you want to talk about.

Will someone explain?


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## Paquito (Jan 10, 2009)

neah said:


> Ok I am new to all of this. What does that mean it is not a size acceptance site but a fat admiration site? I thought the point of dims was to accept people of all sizes as well as a place where you can talk about being an FA or whatever you want to talk about.
> 
> Will someone explain?



Tooz was just being sarcastic, its pretty hard to pick up on the internet though.


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## swordchick (Jan 10, 2009)

T-Devil, you are a good guy. Some people get off on talking to adults like they are children. You are entitled to your opinions. You don't have to blow smoke up anyone's ass. Listen to Sandie and SocialbFly.


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## William (Jan 10, 2009)

Hi 

I agree, Stick around

William




swordchick said:


> T-Devil, you are a good guy. Some people get off on talking to adults like they are children. You are entitled to your opinions. You don't have to blow smoke up anyone's ass. Listen to Sandie and SocialbFly.


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## Sugar (Jan 10, 2009)

T_Devil said:


> No, I'm pissed because everybody else can have their opinion. Me? I say something and i have to have volumes of text and proof and research and charts and diagrams n shit. I don't give a fuck if people are nice to me.
> 
> Does it look like I'm TRYING to win friends?
> 
> There are certain things i tend to believe and when people ask my opinion of certain things, especially how the relate to the image of size acceptance, they're gonna get my opinion and how I really feel.



Well it seems if you'd stop spraying vinegar everywhere maybe people wouldn't ask for your documents so frequently. If you don't want friends that's fine but stop expecting people to coddle you.

If my "friend" says 'hey try this cookie it's good' I will try the cookie. If a distant and grouchy person says 'hey try this cookie' I will slap it out of their hand and run away. 

At anyrate I'm not seeing how any of this relates to your original confusing post. So I'm out. Hope you figure it out.


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## Shosh (Jan 10, 2009)

T I for one appreciate all that you contribute here. I find myself nodding in agreement to much that you write often.
I was really touched recently when you spoke of your wife, and never allowing anybody to say a bad word to her.

For me you are a rough diamond and a gentleman, and I would miss you should you not be here anymore.

I missed you last time you left.


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## tonynyc (Jan 10, 2009)

My two cents- stick around and make your "friends" happy.


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## AnnMarie (Jan 10, 2009)

neah said:


> Ok I am new to all of this. What does that mean it is not a size acceptance site but a fat admiration site? I thought the point of dims was to accept people of all sizes as well as a place where you can talk about being an FA or whatever you want to talk about.
> 
> Will someone explain?




Please see the FAQ for info from the webmaster (Conrad) on what this site is, how it evolved, etc. 

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/faq.php


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## No-No-Badkitty (Jan 10, 2009)

T_Devil said:


> _this isn't just about me, this is for anyone who has felt what I'm feeling. I know I'm not the only one that feels this way. I can't be. So, if anyone feels this same way, I wrote this on your behalf as well because I think we all need some guidance. For a long time, I thought I knew what I was doing was right, but recently that feeling has just gone away from me._




In my opinion you have reached a peek of understanding, maybe even observation that others around you (those you respect and those you don't) simply cannot see yet. Or maybe they just don't want to see. The fact that these people are ignoring the obvious (to you) is probably what is frustrating you. You see the writing on the wall but because everyone else is ignoring it (for whatever their reasons) you find yourself angry because they (to you) are blatently ignoring what is so important, fawning over the trivial things, that while once held weight, you now know are only crumbs to the entire cake.
Of course this is only an assumption based on other trials in life that I have watched people go through and even been apart of. I don't really know that this is where you are at the moment...but based on your words, it's my guess.
Basically what I'm saying is YOU haven't missed anything. They have....and for whatever reason they won't take the blind fold off and open their eyes.


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## Tooz (Jan 10, 2009)

free2beme04 said:


> Tooz was just being sarcastic, its pretty hard to pick up on the internet though.



No, I wasn't. You want SA? Read the Notes from the Fatosphere blog feed. Dims was originally intended to be a place to admire those who are fat.

I made the mistake of wanting Dims to be SA-- it ain't, it's fine how it is.


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## T_Devil (Jan 10, 2009)

Lucky said:


> Well it seems if you'd stop spraying vinegar everywhere maybe people wouldn't ask for your documents so frequently. If you don't want friends that's fine but stop expecting people to coddle you.
> 
> If my "friend" says 'hey try this cookie it's good' I will try the cookie. If a distant and grouchy person says 'hey try this cookie' I will slap it out of their hand and run away.
> 
> At anyrate I'm not seeing how any of this relates to your original confusing post. So I'm out. Hope you figure it out.



I had originally, put this person on ignore, but then I thought about it. She knows me so well... _Coddle me_.... If she only knew, right?


Look folks, I fucked up and made a mistake. I made a thread where I actually shared what I was feeling when I should have probably just shut my computer off instead. Now people are telling me that it's either ok and it just comes off as coddling, OR, they are the best in brightest in witty and snarky remarks. People can be so clever! _not really._

I don't know if THAT is true or not, but that's of little importance since she's gone and won't _hurt my worthless feeling anymore_. <---sarcasm.

I just feel bad about saying what I felt because now it's this joke and it's viewed as a weakness and a flaw in _my untarnished image_. <--more sarcasm.

I want to put the point out there that I'm not person that needs his ass kissed, I really am not. I know what I am and I also know I fucked up in a grand way. In a couple of weeks all this shit will be forgotten and it'll be business as usual. This thread will fall to the bottom of the stack and I can salvage what's left of my dignity. <---- that was a joke, it's ok to laugh.

I made a mistake. I did something stupid. I'm owning up to it.


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## Paquito (Jan 10, 2009)

Tooz said:


> No, I wasn't. You want SA? Read the Notes from the Fatosphere blog feed. Dims was originally intended to be a place to admire those who are fat.
> 
> I made the mistake of wanting Dims to be SA-- it ain't, it's fine how it is.



Well in that case, theres egg on my face now lol.

Guess my post played into that more than I thought.


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## GWARrior (Jan 10, 2009)

i love drama queens.


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## T_Devil (Jan 10, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> i love drama queens.



I love you. :kiss2:


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## No-No-Badkitty (Jan 11, 2009)

T_Devil said:


> Look folks, I fucked up and made a mistake. I made a thread where I actually shared what I was feeling when I should have probably just shut my computer off instead. Now people are telling me that it's either ok and it just comes off as coddling, OR, they are the best in brightest in witty and snarky remarks. People can be so clever! _not really._
> .




Well, personally I don't think it was a mistake. I think it's a good thread with a lot of serious questions and viewpoints. Many of which have gone through my own mind as well as other people's I'm sure.
The fact of the matter is some people never "see"...and they don't want to...which also means they will never understand your viewpoint nor do they want to.
That's life.
That's human nature.
You just have to think of those people as competators in the special olympics. Cheer for them when they succeed and just smile and wave and pat them on the back when they don't...


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## bellyjelly (Jan 11, 2009)

I understand what you're saying when you say the more you say the less valid your statements seem. I'm not sure if you mean they're less valid to others or to yourself, but...

My personal stance: I posted a bit, here and there, for a few months, and came to realise I was just blowing hot air up my own arse. That got a little uncomfy.

I still pop by for a read every so often. That's usually enough for me. 

I suppose people have different reasons for being here, posting here, interacting here. I just got bored with the same ol' same ol'.

Nice interesting post.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jan 11, 2009)

T-Devil....I have just started to warm up to you this past year....and kind of started to like you. From what I get out of some of the posts.....it seems like some others might feel the same.

You want to leave.....NOW???


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## exile in thighville (Jan 11, 2009)

Candy_Coated_Clown said:


> can't say I understand exactly what it is that you are in conflict with.



^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## T_Devil (Jan 11, 2009)

No-No-Badkitty said:


> Well, personally I don't think it was a mistake. I think it's a good thread with a lot of serious questions and viewpoints. Many of which have gone through my own mind as well as other people's I'm sure.
> The fact of the matter is some people never "see"...and they don't want to...which also means they will never understand your viewpoint nor do they want to.
> That's life.
> That's human nature.
> You just have to think of those people as competators in the special olympics. Cheer for them when they succeed and just smile and wave and pat them on the back when they don't...







bellyjelly said:


> I understand what you're saying when you say the more you say the less valid your statements seem. I'm not sure if you mean they're less valid to others or to yourself, but...
> 
> My personal stance: I posted a bit, here and there, for a few months, and came to realise I was just blowing hot air up my own arse. That got a little uncomfy.
> 
> ...






Green Eyed Fairy said:


> T-Devil....I have just started to warm up to you this past year....and kind of started to like you. From what I get out of some of the posts.....it seems like some others might feel the same.
> 
> *You want to leave.....NOW???*



No, I don't _want_ to leave because it's obvious I do have a valid point of view. I've had a couple of people tell me that I'm not alone both on the thread and in private. This just tells me that there seems to be a larger group of people here who have no voice. They tend not to speak because of some of the pricks that like to twist words around.

It's not out of fear, it's just due to the fact that this place is only a fucking message board and something we all do for fun, they just don't want to get involved in some inane war of words with dicks who's only way to validate their own existence is to make other people look stupid. They use their "intelligence" to fuck with people because they have nothing else to occupy their lives. It is because of this, I have made an important discovery, I just figured it out today, and it's this:

There is a class of people that are lower than stupid and ignorant people. They are these intelligent people with empty lives. They have this inert need to make themselves gods amongst insects. They may have college degrees and graduates cumming real loudly or some shit like that, but they have the people skills of cat turd.

So here I am, a high school drop out, GED the highest degree I have. The closest I've ever gotten to college was going to drinking parties at houses on campus. All the opinions and feeling and ideas and what not I have I learned on my own. No course of study. If I wanted to know something, Well, let's just say I appreciate Wikipedia!

These "smarties" who have this profound sense of being the elite look down at people like me and they wonder what gives us a right to have an opinion. We didn't study for it, Go to school for it, pay for it buy it. We had to use our own resources and what pisses them off, in my opinion, is that we did it for a fraction of their cost!

That's what it comes down too. I'm sick of feeling stupid. Like Duuuuu geeeee, I aint gots no edumaction. I don't have a degree in anything, but does that make me any less smart? of course not.

I'm realizing this because A LOT of people have been so supportive in this train wreck of a "drama" thread. What can I say, examining something can be dramatic. I thought that doing this was a mistake but the more I look at it (out of a deep sense of shameful masochism I guess) The more I see people connecting to the feelings and sentiments, even if they were not very clear when first expressed.

I feel more and more that there's something going on here at Dimensions that is so subtle that the mods may have missed it. Maybe even Conrad himself may have missed. This quiet dissension of people who simply do not have the time or have the mental strength to put up with the shit that these "smarties" are willing to pour into a thread and their responses.

There is no "casual" setting here. Dimensions seems to belong to the people that dominate the boards and those dominators simply will not give up their spot of "Annoying douche bags". Again, a sense of self entitlement be it how long they've been here OR how many degrees they hold, or that they believe they have the moral high ground.

"Oh T, that's all so much bullshit!" 
Is it?
How many people come and then just go. never heard from again. Good bye. there are people who lurk here and they read the threads and keep up with all of the "drama". They can participate if they want to. Or can they? Have we once stopped to consider if those who are not speaking are being given a chance to post their opinions without these douche bags attacking them? It goes back to having an opinion. Human beings have opinions. Some don't have the best way of stating how they feel. Perhaps they don't know how to deal with the wordsmiths we have here who think they're keeping Dimensions pure or whatever the fuck these pricks use as an excuse to be... pricks.

I'm not leaving and I don't care what kind of damage my "Reputation" may have taken. I'm a big Queen, fine, eat a dick. I know there are people that feel EXACTLY how I feel. Some people have told me, and some remain silent but agree in stoic silence.

It all seems so undefined, but it's because this feeling is really profound and it encompasses a lot of aspects of this board and society itself. So if you still don't get it, ask a question that helps narrow the scope. Be specific. Witty little comments don't help, so if that's all you got, go cook a pizza before you respond, give yourself time to ask yourself if it's something you REALLY want to contribute, because nobody thinks it's cute.

These are my feelings, and people have expressed they feel the same way, so take all of this for what it is. If you're following this god-forsaken thread and you feel the same, like you don't have a voice, speak because I can't be the only person to say so. Eventually I'm going to fail (if I haven't already), and when I do, it's gonna be grand and colossal and the largest fucking shit sandwich I'll ever have to eat, and folks, shit sandwiches do not taste good.


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## goodthings (Jan 12, 2009)

Hi T-devil.
I agree with much of what you have said. There are definately a few folks that enjoy a good pissing contest, one of whom is me, but it gets to the point that as you said, people get really douche baggish, and it is no longer entertaining. I do have to disagree with you about the so called "smart" people as I am highly educated myself and would not ever demean someone who does not have the schooling I have. However, if someone is trying to make me feel "dum" I do let them know that I am indeed not stupid. As far as I am concerned school does not make one intelligent, but learning does and learning can take place any where, not just at univeristy.


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## swordchick (Jan 12, 2009)

T-Devil, I will leave you with a video clip from House Party 3. You have to see Uncle Vester's advice to Kid. It begins at 2:20. Enjoy!


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## Blackjack (Jan 12, 2009)

Yes, all humans have opinions, but there's a difference between not being able to word it properly and saying "IT'S WRONG BECAUSE I FUCKING THINK SO." Generally, one will provoke a discussion, and the other will just make you look like a ranting idiot- especially when there's a good number of people who're arguing a point that completely disagrees with yours, and are willing to back it up with reasons as to why they believe as they do.

That's not college learning, that's just some common sense, I'd think.

Now, decent arguments were on both sides- it's not as though I'm saying that one group debated any better than the other overall. What I am saying is that regardless of the opinion being conveyed, the once that are most credible are the ones that have some sort of support to them. You don't have to defend an opinion in order to have it; you ought to defend it if you expect people to take it seriously.


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## Chimpi (Jan 12, 2009)

I do not think anyone's argument towards you have ever been "you do not have a valid point of view." Then again, I do not follow you around Dimensions seeking your immediate response to a thread and fiendishly and obsessively read every reply you receive. I can barely (_barely_) relate to what you're saying, but I'm on a certain side of the fence anyway, so my mind is already made it. When it came to your input on the other thread, you presented it more of a fact - laid down law - rather than opinion.
You have your opinion and that's something you will always have. So does everyone. What _I_ don't think is right is when you present your opinion as a fact and then hide behind an opinion flag like nothing you've said was rude, cruel, insulting or demeaning.

There's not many cases here at Dimensions where an opinion is struck down. There are, however, many cases where an opinion is struck down because of the presentation it was given in.

I'm sorry you feel stupid sometimes. We all feel stupid sometimes. I felt stupid not too long ago because I over-analyzed something that was not worth over-analyzing. That was in the recent hours. There were multiple times earlier in the day where I felt stupid for other reasons. The point of that is that we all have those moments. It's important to learn from them and try to form yourself into a person you think is a better person, a person that might benefit from your _perceived_ stupidity.

As for a quiet dissension that so many people might feel... well, many people, if not most, are passionate about the things they believe in and the opinions they have. You're certainly one of those people, as am I. Is it not possible that in "just a fucking message board" with hundreds of severely active people with strong opinions, a few of those people and opinions will clash at a seemingly constant rate? If you and _________ aren't clashing forces, then two (or more) other people are. If they're not, I and someone else (or multiple people) are. It's bound to happen when there's a high volume of traffic and a dedicated "fucking message board" of passionate users.
There are others who are just quiet and don't speak up. Many times that's just who they are as people - quiet, introvert people.




T_Devil said:


> How many people come and then just go. never heard from again. Good bye. there are people who lurk here and they read the threads and keep up with all of the "drama". They can participate if they want to. Or can they? Have we once stopped to consider if those who are not speaking are being given a chance to post their opinions without these douche bags attacking them? It goes back to having an opinion. Human beings have opinions. Some don't have the best way of stating how they feel. Perhaps they don't know how to deal with the wordsmiths we have here who think they're keeping Dimensions pure or whatever the fuck these pricks use as an excuse to be... pricks.



Again - high volumes of posters; many of which have strong opinions. You cannot have a war without causalities. There will always be a constant stream of users that register, read - maybe put in some input, suggestions or information - and then leave for various reasons. Some do it because the place isn't for them. Some do it because they've been offended and don't wish to remain. Some do it for other reasons. I've known quite a few of those people.
How many people apply for a job, get the job and then decide the job is not for them and leave? Thousands and thousands of those instances happen every day. That's life. People come and people go. You'll never be able to keep everyone.

On a last note, this isn't "just a fucking message board" to some people. Again, here's another prime example of exactly what I'm referring to.
In quote, you said:


T_Devil said:


> It's not out of fear, it's just due to the fact that this place is only a fucking message board and something we all do for fun, they just don't want to get involved in some inane war of words with dicks who's only way to validate their own existence is to make other people look stupid. They use their "intelligence" to fuck with people because they have nothing else to occupy their lives.



To some people (and I can say it matter-of-fact because I am one of those people), it's not "just a fucking message board." It's a community - a living, breathing entity made up of so many diverse people, viewpoints and experiences. A place where so many people can learn so many different things, be it positive or negative education. Sure, I do it for fun, but I also do it because it's a home - a life - here on this corner of the internet.
It's not "just a fucking message board" to me. That's _your_ opinion of this place, as you have every right to hold that opinion. But I believe you inherently present it in the wrong fashion. You say those words in that manner, people like myself become offended to some degree (though it doesn't offend me in the least because I've come to expect such a thing from you) by the way you have said your opinion - not because of the opinion itself.
I just cannot stress enough how much your opinion matters just as much as anyone else (though that's my opinion... some people may just hate your opinion  ). It's the words you use and the progression of feelings you put behind it that matter the most. At least to me.


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## T_Devil (Jan 12, 2009)

See, now this thread is looking _less_ like a train wreck. Thank you for the thoughtful answers. there are some points I'd like to touch on so I may go for some clarification.




goodthings said:


> I do have to disagree with you about the so called "smart" people as I am highly educated myself and would not ever demean someone who does not have the schooling I have. However, if someone is trying to make me feel "dum" I do let them know that I am indeed not stupid. As far as I am concerned school does not make one intelligent, but learning does and learning can take place any where, not just at univeristy.


In the past, not all, but some of the people I have dealt with judged me pretty harshly due to the fact I never finished high school. I hate it when that's all people see. Because of that, I've kind of developed an inferiority complex. I'll bring it up with my therapist the next time I speak with him. I know where it comes from though, it comes from a failure in a system that can identify certain types of learning disorders now, but couldn't when I was in school. I feel like a failure because I didn't try hard enough, but now the same system that instilled that thinking into me is telling me that I have learning disorders and it's not really my fault. So, as a result, I'm left with this feeling of confusion. I could go into it more, but there isn't any need to. Suffice to say I don't trust learning institutions because they confuse me all to hell.



Blackjack said:


> You don't have to defend an opinion in order to have it; you ought to defend it if you expect people to take it seriously.


And I agree. Sometimes though, I say shit that I don't expect anyone to take seriously. I can write something sensitive and meaningful and only a few people will respond to it, but I say something totally insensitive and ironic and it becomes this whole big thing. Negativity is what is recognized. You think I want to be seen as the village idiot? That's just how it ended up. 

I didn't think people were going to take me so seriously, had I thought that, I would have defended my point better. I honest to god thought it would just get glanced over and never any more of a thought put into it by anyone. I can defend my point, but at the time I stated my opinion, I was just fucking around like so many people here do. I dunno, I should caption everything I write from now on I guess.



Chimpi said:


> You have your opinion and that's something you will always have. So does everyone. What _I_ don't think is right is when you present your opinion as a fact and then hide behind an opinion flag like nothing you've said was rude, cruel, insulting or demeaning.
> 
> I'm sorry you feel stupid sometimes. We all feel stupid sometimes. I felt stupid not too long ago because I over-analyzed something that was not worth over-analyzing. That was in the recent hours. There were multiple times earlier in the day where I felt stupid for other reasons. The point of that is that we all have those moments. It's important to learn from them and try to form yourself into a person you think is a better person, a person that might benefit from your _perceived_ stupidity.


right, and it seems like if I or anyone else has one of those in a grand way, they get their head bitten off like the head of a dove (Ozzy Reference). I make a huge mistake and it's like defending your life. Hey man, I say stupid shit sometimes, don't we all? And if I did say something mean and offensive, you can send me a message privately letting me know that what I said wasn't kosher with you. I'm not some kind of an ogre. Sometimes I just get in a mood where I want to be more unrefined than usual. Don't you ever get that? Doesn't everybody? Anybody?

Am I the only one?

Point is (and I could use a dose of this myself) that before you put the skewers into someones post, find out for sure if they were joking or not. Like I said, I ought to practice what i preach. this is a good Idea, I'm going to do that from now on instead of being a dick on the boards.

Sometimes I don't like the person I become. I see a lot of evil in that person and it sucks when shit like THIS happens. It's not a perfect process and I doubt you would believe if I told you that I have gotten better over the years. Believe it or not, I used to be much worse.

And you can see it as Hiding, throwing a tantrum or whatever you want. But it's something I'm trying to learn from. I'm trying to gain a lot more out of this than what was put into it, that's for sure. 

There's a part of me that is so embarrassed that it just wants to quietly slither out the door and never return. Then there's that part of me that wants to learn and understand the world and the people in it. I have to say that that part of me, wants to slither away as well.

This shit is embarrassing to me. A good laugh to a lot of people, but it's a lot of things and I'm using it to grow from it, to have a better understanding than I did yesterday. I wish I could say the right things all the time, but if I did, would I ever learn anything?

PS, I really am sorry if I offended you with remarks I made. It wasn't my intention. That communication thing, we need to work on that a little bit.


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## Shosh (Jan 12, 2009)

T you are a good guy.


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## LalaCity (Jan 12, 2009)

T-Devil -- let me just say that I think I know where you're coming from...there are certain people here who are allowed to get away with _anything_. They can intimidate whomever they like and nobody calls them on it. Rather, these arrogant a**holes receive praise as "the tellers of truth." Why? Because people curry favor with them in order not to be on the receiving end of their taunts and unkindness. Typical "making friends with the schoolyard bully" shit. I've seen it on every forum I've ever subscribed to.

The way to deal with it? Don't give him or her anything to feed off of. When he or she taunts you, respond rationally, coolly. Seriously -- he/she will have nothing to react to and they'll just go away to prey on another target.

Don't get upset over it. _Way_ more people than you realize can't stand him/her either. Just sit back and wait. One day his/her arrogance will land him/her in hot water. And the karmic wheel will come around...


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## troubadours (Jan 12, 2009)

thanks everyone try the fries!!!


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## TotallyReal (Jan 12, 2009)

Sorry you've decided to go. I hope you enjoy youre pursuits in life. Godspeed T-Devil.


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## T_Devil (Jan 13, 2009)

troubadours said:


> thanks everyone try the fries!!!



No. The fries are tainted by my taint.


TotallyReal said:


> Sorry you've decided to go. I hope you enjoy youre pursuits in life. Godspeed T-Devil.


My pursuits in life is to kill kittens. :doh:


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## Russ2d (Jan 13, 2009)

You shouldn't go T-Devil, you should stick around and fight. I have always argued our little community should be more positive (removing the ability to be a troll on the erotic weight gain board was one of the best decisions around here) but there are always going to be differing opinions and every community has their share of A-holes (who are always the minority but are always very vocal).

I am one of those posters who has strong convictions and shares honest opinions and I get "jumped" on often, usually by the same little nest of misery pushers. Doesn't bother me in the least, in fact I use them as a barometer, if I say something and they get pissed off I know I've said something right. 

If someone offers you a different opinion and is respectful great. If someone is disrespectful and insulting so what... your goal is to offer your opinion out there for all, keeping in mind that you're talking to the majority of silent people out there and not to the few who are jumping down your throat every 2 seconds. In other words F them!


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## TraciJo67 (Jan 13, 2009)

T_Devil said:


> No, I don't _want_ to leave because it's obvious I do have a valid point of view. I've had a couple of people tell me that I'm not alone both on the thread and in private. This just tells me that there seems to be a larger group of people here who have no voice. They tend not to speak because of some of the pricks that like to twist words around.
> 
> It's not out of fear, it's just due to the fact that this place is only a fucking message board and something we all do for fun, they just don't want to get involved in some inane war of words with dicks who's only way to validate their own existence is to make other people look stupid. They use their "intelligence" to fuck with people because they have nothing else to occupy their lives. It is because of this, I have made an important discovery, I just figured it out today, and it's this:
> 
> ...



Interesting. I read this post, and I think it's a classic example of douchebaggery. Most people judge posts by how well written they are, not by how "edumacated" the writer claims to be. I've always had a high opinion of you. You express yourself extremely well. 

But this .... ? A bullying rant about how terrible bullies are? Really???? I don't care how many people have "silently" supported you, T_Devil. This diatribe is arrogant and very mean-spirited (masquerading as a rant against those "other" horrible people).


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## T_Devil (Jan 13, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Interesting. I read this post, and I think it's a classic example of douchebaggery. Most people judge posts by how well written they are, not by how "edumacated" the writer claims to be. I've always had a high opinion of you. You express yourself extremely well.
> 
> But this .... ? A bullying rant about how terrible bullies are? Really???? I don't care how many people have "silently" supported you, T_Devil. This diatribe is arrogant and very mean-spirited (masquerading as a rant against those "other" horrible people).


Did you even bother to read the rest of the thread, or did you just read the first post and then jump right into telling me how stupid I am?


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## TraciJo67 (Jan 13, 2009)

T_Devil said:


> Did you even bother to read the rest of the thread, or did you just read the first post and then jump right into telling me how stupid I am?



Well, of course, I just jumped right in to tell you how wrong you are


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## SamanthaNY (Jan 13, 2009)

I don't understand - why is this all so personal to you, T? It's like every criticism is a knife in your back.


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## T_Devil (Jan 13, 2009)

SamanthaNY said:


> I don't understand - why is this all so personal to you, T? It's like every criticism is a knife in your back.


It's not. 
I know it's hard to believe, but it isn't.
I don't know why it's so important to me, why I feel like I do about it. It (the criticism n shit like that) Makes no difference to me. I just feel as though sometimes I'll say something and it'll get the shit pounded out of it. Which is fine, don't get me wrong, I mean it's all just words anyways. But I think about people who _do_ have a lot to say and put a lot of feeling into their statements and then they get clobbered around for their opinions.

It just kind of sucks because people who feel a great deal about the topic at hand don't really say anything because they don't feel like dealing with the way they know they'll get treated. It's a legitimate feeling. I'll write a whole page of my honest feelings, but then I'll get to thinking about it and even though it's how I really feel, I won't submit it. I just close the window and look at other forums (where my opinion would probably be more welcomed).

It's not every bodies glass of juice around here and I understand that, I just wanted to say something for people who feel the same way I do. I came off as a douche bag and I understand that. But sometimes, it's the way it's the way it's gotta be. I'm not claiming to be the worlds greatest person. In fact, I've stated in the past that I am an asshole many times. Some people say I'm a nice guy because I _can_ be a nice guy.

And that's not exclusive just to me. I behave in proportion to how I'm approached. A lot of people are like that. You go at them with this idea in your head that you are going to make them validate their feelings and we're gonna come back at you with a shit load of contempt.

And that's why things are not always pleasant. I'm more than willing to be open and honest and take my share of lumps. That's how I learn. But it's in the attitude you approach me with it. Come at me aggressively, I will be aggressive right back. Come at me inquisitively and with obvious understanding and I will be more than willing to listen and take part in a civil discussion.

Aren't we all like that?

I've come to realize both about this place and in life in general that keeping things to myself isn't healthy, it's all in who I open up to and share my feelings and ideas with. In a public forum such as this, perhaps sharing isn't such a good idea because sometimes my thoughts and opinions are very abrasive.

I don't mind criticism. I don't mind it when it can be used to make something better. I don't like it when it's just accusations of hypocrisy and all of this other shit. I know what it is, I wrote it. I know it's hypocritical, but it's also because it's a series of complex feelings that oppose each other. How do I reconcile that? Do I get answers that are positive and constructive or do I get accusatory jargon and witty comments that actually have no bearing on anything I'm feeling at all.

Again, this isn't about me. I can leave here anytime I want. I stay to see what's going to happen next. To see what the topic of the week is going to be and all that fun stuff and I can choose to be a part of it or not. When I choose to be a part of it, it doesn't always turn out well so I choose to participate less and less.

When I say something about it, I'm a douche bag.

Ok, great! But it's not why I keep coming back to this pile of shit topic and continue to participate. I keep coming back because I know there are people keeping up with this pile of shit because there are a lot of sentiments that they identify with, but don't want to say anything because they know what it's like to get chewed up. They care about how they feel, that's why they stay silent. Me? I don't give a shit how I feel... _ok maybe a little bit._ 

But as far as being critical and being seen as a hypocritical ass, hey, fine with me. Disrespect me all you want. Belittle my thoughts and my search for answers. I fuckin' deserve it because I'm a jerk and I openly admit it.

I'm saying that some people don't deserve it though. Those are the people I care about. They feel that they don't get a say because the moment they contribute ANYTHING, they're gonna be attacked like a baby in a pack of wild Dingos.I can't blame them for saying nothing. Some of the meanest, nastiest shit I've ever seen in my life has been posted right here, and I've posted at some real hell holes too.

I really filter my feelings. Some people here couldn't handle what I really think because it _is_ insulting. That's why I don't say it. But I've noticed that there are people who have said things I wouldn't dream of saying and nothing happens to them because of the _way_ they word things, ahh, a technicality!

See.... it's tricky posting around here.

Be critical of me, I try to learn from my mistakes. But I also write what I feel, and sometimes what I feel isn't always good.


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## T_Devil (Jan 13, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Well, of course, I just jumped right in to tell you how wrong you are



Hey, that's how it came off to me. :doh:
Sorry to have wasted your time.


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## GWARrior (Jan 13, 2009)

T_Devil said:


> I just feel as though sometimes I'll say something and it'll get the shit pounded out of it.



hate to burst your bubble, but this has happened to everyone. at least once.

youre not so special.


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## Ruby Ripples (Jan 13, 2009)

T_Devil said:


> I had originally, put this person on ignore, but then I thought about it. She knows me so well... _Coddle me_.... If she only knew, right?
> 
> 
> Look folks, I fucked up and made a mistake. I made a thread where I actually shared what I was feeling when I should have probably just shut my computer off instead. Now people are telling me that it's either ok and it just comes off as coddling, OR, they are the best in brightest in witty and snarky remarks. People can be so clever! _not really._
> ...



Don't worry, nobody will remember it, not when there's a much bigger trainwreck of a thread still festering away. You'll be fine. 

(And no, Im not being sarcastic)


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## T_Devil (Jan 13, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> hate to burst your bubble, but this has happened to everyone. at least once.
> 
> youre not so special.


I know, and I know.
I'm just asking if that's how it should be in a community that prides itself on acceptance. 
And if that's the case, why bother saying anything?

But hey, who am I to question anything? I'm just a hypocrite drama queen looking for attention.


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## SamanthaNY (Jan 13, 2009)

Dude, we can't even define what acceptance _IS_. 

Rare is the day one of the monkeys isn't flinging their own pooh at the rest of us.


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## GWARrior (Jan 13, 2009)

T_Devil said:


> I know, and I know.
> I'm just asking if that's how it should be in a community that prides itself on acceptance.
> And if that's the case, why bother saying anything?
> 
> But hey, who am I to question anything? I'm just a hypocrite drama queen looking for attention.



when you have a community with differing opnions, thoughts, backgrounds and experiences... conflicts will occur. even in the most accepting, tolerant, rainbows-and-puppies community,

thats just how it is.

deal with it?


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## T_Devil (Jan 13, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> when you have a community with differing opnions, thoughts, backgrounds and experiences... conflicts will occur. even in the most accepting, tolerant, rainbows-and-puppies community,
> 
> thats just how it is.
> 
> deal with it?


Oh I understand that part of that. It's an important thing for any community that has opinionated people. 

Do they have to be so dick-ish about it though? I know I'm guilty of it too and believe me, I'm working hard to change some of these things about myself. 

But why should I be the only one to try? I can deal with it, but if everybody is going to be a dick, why can't I be one too?


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## T_Devil (Jan 13, 2009)

SamanthaNY said:


> Dude, we can't even define what acceptance _IS_.
> 
> Rare is the day one of the monkeys isn't flinging their own pooh at the rest of us.



You got me there. That's kind of sad, but that's the reality. We're a movement going nowhere and if that's the case.... _is it really a movement?_


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## Chimpi (Jan 14, 2009)

T_Devil said:


> Oh I understand that part of that. It's an important thing for any community that has opinionated people.
> 
> Do they have to be so dick-ish about it though? I know I'm guilty of it too and believe me, I'm working hard to change some of these things about myself.
> 
> *But why should I be the only one to try? I can deal with it, but if everybody is going to be a dick, why can't I be one too?*



I think a good way to go about that is to remember that _you_ want to be less "dickish," whether others will join you in that journey or not. The way I have always come ahead of the game is by doing what I feel is right, not by doing things that others think is right for me or by doing things with others that I didn't necessarily think was right for me. Ya know?
Self-dedication and preservation, I suppose. *Shrugs*

In other words, you aren't going to make others be less "dickish" by being less "dickish" yourself. You're responsible for you, they're responsible for themselves. Being the better person more often than not means going it alone. At least that's the way I see it.


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## T_Devil (Jan 14, 2009)

Chimpi said:


> I think a good way to go about that is to remember that _you_ want to be less "dickish," whether others will join you in that journey or not. The way I have always come ahead of the game is by doing what I feel is right, not by doing things that others think is right for me or by doing things with others that I didn't necessarily think was right for me. Ya know?
> Self-dedication and preservation, I suppose. *Shrugs*
> 
> In other words, you aren't going to make others be less "dickish" by being less "dickish" yourself. You're responsible for you, they're responsible for themselves. Being the better person more often than not means going it alone. At least that's the way I see it.



And that's a good way of seeing it and it's a good reason for me to mend my ways in which I want very much to do so and will do all that I can.

But then I hear from people who are not dick-ish in any way. People who are articulate and well meaning and do all they can to be bright and cheerful and helpful and useful. I hear about how they get squashed like some kind of a bug.

Even if I change, and no one else does. Why would I want to continue to post here? Why would anyone want to? This is why I have questioned leaving the Size Acceptance movement in general because it doesn't seem like it's moving anywhere. if Dimensions is a separate entity than the SA Movement in general, then why do people cling to it. Because it's the largest internet community for fat people?

Maybe those of us that want to speak and feel as though we can't should form our own social order within Dimensions. A subculture, if you will. Would an idea like that be popular? Does one already exist? I just don't know.

Yeah, it's childish and stupid, but then again, take a look at some of the shit that gets said on the boards.


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## Mini (Jan 14, 2009)

T_Devil said:


> And that's a good way of seeing it and it's a good reason for me to mend my ways in which I want very much to do so and will do all that I can.
> 
> But then I hear from people who are not dick-ish in any way. People who are articulate and well meaning and do all they can to be bright and cheerful and helpful and useful. I hear about how they get squashed like some kind of a bug.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry, but I still don't know what you're getting at. What are you trying to say, that people are mean sometimes and you want it to be different?


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## Santaclear (Jan 14, 2009)

T_Devil said:


> You got me there. That's kind of sad, but that's the reality. We're a movement going nowhere and if that's the case.... _is it really a movement?_



T.....what I'm mainly hearing from you on all this is a lot of negativity. You can choose to share or not. The glass can be viewed as half full or as half empty. You're choosing half empty now, IMO. I believe you're a good-hearted guy. I know you felt angry, maybe hurt when you started this thread and needed to vent. I know you're probably still angry, but I wish you'd think more about the effect your words might have. Also, these concepts of a "movement" are pretty nebulous when used in the negative.


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## SocialbFly (Jan 14, 2009)

T, we have all been in the hot seat at dimensions one time or another, none of us are perfect, we are flawed humans although we try our best (most of us) to be better humans...no one is perfect, no one knows all the answers, no one should profess to...back off for a lil while, smell the flowers, notice the spring will be coming soon, have a life besides dims...

then come back...it really changes how you see things here...sometimes a friend in real life with a cup of coffee is a better alternative to people that only know you through the written word and that leaves soooooooooooo much room for error.

its your choice, but then, you knew that, cause it always was.


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## T_Devil (Jan 14, 2009)

Santaclear said:


> T.....what I'm mainly hearing from you on all this is a lot of negativity. You can choose to share or not. The glass can be viewed as half full or as half empty. You're choosing half empty now, IMO. I believe you're a good-hearted guy. I know you felt angry, maybe hurt when you started this thread and needed to vent. I know you're probably still angry, but I wish you'd think more about the effect your words might have. Also, these concepts of a "movement" are pretty nebulous when used in the negative.



I apologize if I come off as angry. I'm more indifferent than anything else. I had my anger issue and that issue has passed, now I'm just asking questions because I have them.

Also if it sounds like I'm being negative.... I'm trying not to be negative. I'm very positive about a lot of things, some we may see eye to eye on, some not. The things I'm more positive about as far as SA is concerned has more to do with the adult entertainment industry than actual social awareness. I've given up on social awareness.

And finally, if some people still can't see what I'm getting at, there's not much I can do for them. People here are mean, I get it. Fine. They're not going to change, Fine also. I wouldn't know what to do if they decided to be a little bit nicer and understanding.

I also know I don't have to waste my time here either, yet that's what I continue to do. Why? I don't know. I do know that I'm getting better understanding of myself in that I run through a lot of emotions for absolutely no reason. I've also learned that I'm much too impulsive, I really need to work on that.

So I dunno. Whatever. If I tried harder, I could probably care less about this thread. So that's _something_ to try for.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Jan 14, 2009)

I think you expect way too much from this forum/website.

If you think people are being rude or obnoxious or whatever .. well, the people I don't like on here make me appreciate the people I do like all the more. It's just like anywhere else. There will be some people who piss you off and some people who don't. It's about not letting the ones who bother you dictate how you feel in the long run. 

Unless of course you don't like anyone here. I've got nothing if that is the case.


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## LillyBBBW (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm not sure if there is any validity to the idea that someone's opinion is 'wrong.' There's no such thing. An opinion can be based upon information that is incomplete or incorrect but an opinion is just that, an opinion. People have their own ways of expression themselves and those expressions will always draw a response of some sort. Sometimes favorable, sometimes not.

On another board I belong to there is this rule similar to a Godwin's law. The first person who claims that they are being repressed because someone disagrees with them or takes offense to what they've said automatically loses the argument. It is believed that people who do this feel threatened by the differing opinion and implies their reasoning must be weak, or at least they themselves perceive their opinion to be weaker than that of the other. So the gut reaction is to cry out that they are being bullied which is rarely the case. If someone posts something on the board that you do not agree with, you should feel free to give your point of view without being assumed a raving bully because you expressed your point of view against the status quo. The same holds true when it's someone else's turn to disagree with you, whether they're a good speaker or not. No one here is being repressed. 

There is no rule here for you or for anyone else saying that you can't express your opinion. Everyone, even the shitty people, can express their opinion here. Just bear in mind that people will react and respond to what you say one way or the other just as you do. It's not always pleasant nor are yours all the time either. And I will also repeat something said previously, I think it was Chimpi. Just because you clean up your act with posts doesn't mean others will. Assholery never takes a holiday. But you can't just blurt things out in a nasty way and then call others who do it assholes.


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## CynPart2 (Jan 14, 2009)

T_Devil said:


> And I agree. Sometimes though, I say shit that I don't expect anyone to take seriously. I can write something sensitive and meaningful and only a few people will respond to it, but I say something totally insensitive and ironic and it becomes this whole big thing. Negativity is what is recognized.



You're right about that. There's a lot of subliminal anger simmering on the boards. It's to be expected, given that fat people often feel marginalized, and those who care about us frequently share those bouts of frustration and occasional rage. So, yeah, Dim posters are unusually drawn to conflict like moths to a flame war. (Sorry, had to do that!) 

Over my 12 or so years visiting Dimensions, I've gotten loads of great practical advice and inspiration. But I've also run into tremendous negativity, double standards, and cliquishness, too. (But, as another poster said, we're all fallible human beings.) Overall, this is a genuinely good place, so don't lose touch with it. Just keep the forum in perspective in your life. Visit occasionally, stay above the fray, and take a long break when the experience becomes more draining than edifying. Take care.


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## SilkyAngela (Jan 14, 2009)

Hey T, you know me. I have no pat answers or nuggets of wisdom to cure what ails. But I do think I understand the sentiment of your original post and on that note you said something that really struck a chord with me....

It was "Lately, my heart just hasn't been in it. Lately, I've just been thinking to myself if there are more meaningful causes I can be devoting my time to." 

If this is what you feel, for whatever reason, maybe it's time to look into other arenas you're concerned about, whatever that may be. That doesn't mean you have to abandon the things you love of about the SA movement or Dims or anything, in fact it may help give you a more rounded perspective of the things you see and dislike here and elsewhere in the movement.

For me, I get annoyed feeling like whatever I share I'm preaching to the choir...the folks who overcame that years ago. This has led me away from spending so much time here and other fat boards lately to seek people who have no idea that there exists a movement called size acceptance and I find it's really helping me keep a much better overall attitude. I suppose I'm learning not to expect more of people of the fat community than I expect of people in the rest of the world. 

Listen to your heart T, it may just be time to dip your toe in other waters you're passionate about. I believe you have great insight to share no matter where you spend your time.


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## GWARrior (Jan 14, 2009)

for realz T. stop the pity party thread. if you cant handle spats on this forum, maybe you shouldnt be online at all.

people are going to be dicks. some people are going to tell their stories... and then other people will accuse them of being dicks. someone will agree with someone else and then be labeled a dick! DICKS EVERYWHERE!

if you want to stop being a dick, do it. but you cant make anyone else do anything. you just have to shut off the computer.

and dont ever make pity threads cause then you'll be the dick!

sorry if i sound like a dick.


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## Wagimawr (Jan 14, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> dicks





GWARrior said:


> dicks





GWARrior said:


> dick





GWARrior said:


> DICKS





GWARrior said:


> dick





GWARrior said:


> dick





GWARrior said:


> dick.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu2SsUOZjG8


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## GWARrior (Jan 14, 2009)

..rofl .. !


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## mergirl (Jan 15, 2009)

hmm You know what though mr devil, You can just come and go. You have the autonomy to not sign into dimensions for a few months then come back. Its a funny site. Sometimes i feel all happy cause someone says something lovely to me, or i feel supported or i feel nice energies from people and other times i feel anoyed, personally attacked or just at a loss for words..usually though thats in Hyde park where if you give an oppinion there are at least 5 people waiting to tell you how wankish your ideas are.. If i'm not in the right frame of mind i dont bother posting there..
I'm sure that for every person who thinks your oppinions are wankish and pisses you off there will be someone who agrees with you and makes you feel "communed".
If your staying, argue with you later squire and if you are leaving, then safe and happy travels!

xmer


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## Lovelyone (Jan 15, 2009)

Tooz said:


> Remember kids: Dims is a Fat Admiration site, not a Size Acceptance site.



I think that Dimensions is a million different things to a million different people. Personally, I do not come here to be admired, although that does wonders to this fat woman's self esteem. I come to Dimensions to read thoughts of people whom are like me. I gather information from others who feel the same emotions and deal with the same trappings of being in a larger than normal body. While I cannot speak for others I know that I, personally, come here to both celebrate and commiserate with others whom are looking for a place where they can be accepted and acknowledged. 

After having read a lot of the posts on the forums, I have learned to deal with some of the things that have haunted me about being a "fat" person. IMHO, the site may have been intended as an admiration site, but its grown by leaps and bounds into something far, far greater. To me it is a safe haven...a place where i can go--as a 550lbs woman--and not be overlooked, disregarded or treated with disdain. I come here knowing that not everyone is going to agree with everything that I write, and I come here knowing that there are going to be posts by some people here that will infuriate me. That is part of being in a community of so many diverse people. I will admit that there are times when I question whether or not size acceptance is gaining any ground but I do feel proud to be part of a community that is accepting of all people from fat to thin, to fetishists to non-fetishists, and so on. Conrad welcomes them all with open arms.

The best part of dimensions--for me--is that on any given day I can gain insight from, be discouraged by, become frustrated, laugh with, be annoyed by, be inspired by, feel irritation from, joke with, applaud, and celebrate people LIKE ME. I would not want to be part of a cookie-cutter community where all people were encouraged to do and say things that will make them "fit in". I love that I can post my opinion here and not everyone here will agree with it. I love the post responses that show me the other side of things that I might not have seen. I believe that is what the forums is for and if I have moved one step closer to being an all-accepting and loving person by reading these posts...then I feel that this thread is not a detriment to me.


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## Fascinita (Jan 16, 2009)

I'll believe it when I see it. :bow:


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## wrestlingguy (Jan 16, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> I'll believe it when I see it. :bow:



I won't, for some good reasons.

First, the point of your post is that you don't believe he will leave. I agree, plus, I don't want him to leave. Plain and simple though, most people who leave end up coming back, and I'll bet the numbers prove that. Often, they come back with different names, but eventually, the lure of this place is just too strong.

Second, haven't most of us thought about leaving here at different times? Hell, I think the "feeling out of place at Dimensions" thread showed that many can articulate why they feel, well, OUT OF PLACE, and I can bet that one can connect the dots from feeling out of place to just getting the hell out.

Fact is this, though, and I said this in a previous post, you can't put a gun to someone's head, and make them like who they don't like, or agree who they disagree with. As much as I love being here, I'm also a realist, and see many people on other forums who view Dimensions as an elitist bunch of fat snobs who shit on anyone they can, just so they can show their supremacy over them. It's never been that way for me (thank God), but I can see the points that those posters make about feeling "ganged up on". I've been guilty of it myself at times, although I think my reasons for doing it may be different (trying to turn over a new leaf in 2009).

Either way, I hope T Devil stays with us, and continues to raise his voice for what he believes in. We've disagreed often, but I still respect him.


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## olwen (Jan 16, 2009)

wrestlingguy said:


> I won't, for some good reasons.
> 
> First, the point of your post is that you don't believe he will leave. I agree, plus, I don't want him to leave. Plain and simple though, most people who leave end up coming back, and I'll bet the numbers prove that. Often, they come back with different names, but eventually, the lure of this place is just too strong.
> 
> ...



For what it's worth, I've seen that ganged up on thing happen on other forums too, not just here. It's human nature. Only way to avoid it really is to just bust up your computer office space style and never set foot in the net again.


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## tonynyc (Jan 16, 2009)

olwen said:


> For what it's worth, I've seen that ganged up on thing happen on other forums too, not just here. It's human nature. Only way to avoid it really is to just bust up your computer office space style and never set foot in the net again.



I hear what you are saying - but, you end up only punishing yourself for the actions of others. The sad partis that once some folks know what buttons can be pushed - they will happily press away and see the results


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## Fascinita (Jan 17, 2009)

wrestlingguy said:


> I won't, for some good reasons.
> 
> First, the point of your post is that you don't believe he will leave. I agree, plus, I don't want him to leave. Plain and simple though, most people who leave end up coming back, and I'll bet the numbers prove that. Often, they come back with different names, but eventually, the lure of this place is just too strong.
> 
> ...



Great. Thanks, Phil. I don't want him to leave, either. :bow:


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## olwen (Jan 17, 2009)

tonynyc said:


> I hear what you are saying - but, you end up only punishing yourself for the actions of others. The sad partis that once some folks know what buttons can be pushed - they will happily press away and see the results



Well you could also look at it this way: one can punish oneself by letting all the angst get to the point where it becomes depressing. Either way the actions of others are having an effect. If what one sees and reads affects one so strongly then yeah they should probably walk away. The only thing is that kind of angst can be ubiquitious. Maybe it's better to just learn to take only what actually helps and to discard the rest.


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## William (Jan 17, 2009)

Hi Tony

The best practice is not to let those types of people bother you, it is the worst thing in life that can happen to them, they end up resorting to anger, sarcasm or a mocking tone.

William




tonynyc said:


> I hear what you are saying - but, you end up only punishing yourself for the actions of others. The sad partis that once some folks know what buttons can be pushed - they will happily press away and see the results


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