# "Worry about your own kids, fatass!"



## landshark (Apr 10, 2015)

I debated posting this thread, but after nearly a week of mental deliberations have decided to share this story.

A few days ago my wife and I took our kids to a theme park near our home. We have season passes, and this was our first visit of many this year. It just happened to be Easter Sunday, and for the holiday they had some extra activities and a petting zoo. 

We were at the petting zoo when another kid picked up a bunny by the hind legs, then dropped it back into the pen. My wife was right there and reacted with an involuntary and surprised "OH!" She didn't say another word to this little boy, who was probably only 5-6 years old.

The boy's mother happened to be standing next to me and muttered, "Worry about your own kids, fatass!" Thankfully she didn't say it loud enough for my wife to hear. I heard and was on the brink of saying something, but thought better of it for many reasons. I'm not going to get into all of them here, but suffice to say a quick look at this woman told me any reaction on my part would be a waste of my time and likely escalate into a shouting match or otherwise draw attention to us. And then I'd have to explain to my wife what was said, and didn't want to have to do down that road. Sometimes the best display of intellectual superiority is a lack of reaction to stupidity and ignorance.

Not really a question, not really a rant. Just a recent experience that underscores how, even in this era of accepting just about everything else, it is still socially acceptable to make fun of people due to weight. I myself am not overweight; I'm actually in pretty good shape. But I'm married to a wonderful BBW (albeit, one that is trimming her weight) so to see or hear scorn like this is hard to ignore. Perhaps some here can relate.


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## Xyantha Reborn (Apr 10, 2015)

It is true, and unfortunate...and although it isn't any consolation, I have heard "fatass" interposed with "twig" "dumbass" "whitetrash"

I think ignorant people like that will substitute whatever derogatory word fits the situation


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## landshark (Apr 10, 2015)

Xyantha Reborn said:


> It is true, and unfortunate...and although it isn't any consolation, I have heard "fatass" interposed with "twig" "dumbass" "whitetrash"
> 
> I think ignorant people like that will substitute whatever derogatory word fits the situation



I agree, though I do not necessarily object to derogatory words based on behavior. At least not to the same extent as I object to derogatory terms based on physical appearances. If someone is acting like a dumbass, driving like a dumbass, calling a woman a "fatass" etc...then it's not unfair to call that person a dumbass. Now there are some obvious flaws with my reasoning, such as "dumbass" being a subjective descriptor. And of course, returning slurs with slurs is usually a recipe for failure. Still, my objection to negative descriptors based on behavior is non-existant compared to physical traits.


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## luvmybhm (Apr 10, 2015)

i think you were right to spare your wife the comment and any drama that may have arisen from making a comment back. that the fact that the rude woman overreacted to your wife's simple exclamation leads me to believe that she was fully aware of her child's poor manners/actions. I am thinking she was embarrassed that her child was being out of hand and took it as a personal reflection of her being a bad mother. She felt the need to lash out verbally at your wife as she was the commenter. 

i find most people who make rude or inappropriate remarks are really just trying to deflect their own insecurities.

i hope you enjoyed the rest of your trip and have a great time going back this summer!


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## loopytheone (Apr 11, 2015)

Insecure parents are the worst. Which is, in my opinion, what that woman's actions boils down to. She is insecure about her ability as a parent to raise intelligent, caring children and lashes out at anyone who makes her feel at all defensive. Sad, really.


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## landshark (Apr 11, 2015)

luvmybhm said:


> i think you were right to spare your wife the comment and any drama that may have arisen from making a comment back. that the fact that the rude woman overreacted to your wife's simple exclamation leads me to believe that she was fully aware of her child's poor manners/actions. I am thinking she was embarrassed that her child was being out of hand and took it as a personal reflection of her being a bad mother. She felt the need to lash out verbally at your wife as she was the commenter.
> 
> i find most people who make rude or inappropriate remarks are really just trying to deflect their own insecurities.
> 
> i hope you enjoyed the rest of your trip and have a great time going back this summer!



Thank you. I don't let stuff like this ruin anything for me. The truth is stupid people are out there and we all just have to share space with them. So we're just going to be us and go back and have a great summer there. This is the third year we've bought season passes. The first year we did it, we only went a few times because my wife's butt was too big to fit into most of the rides. It was a hard sell for her last year to convince me to buy them again, but I reluctantly agreed. With all the weight she lost she was able to fit in most rides, so it meant a lot to her to be able to take our kids on some of them and be a part of their memories instead of being on the sidelines. 

My wife has been on a bit of a plateau with her weight loss, and had voiced some discouragement over it that morning. Her frustration was extra incentive for me to let it blow over rather than responding. I'm glad I didn't respond because aside from it turning into an ugly situation it would have been a kick to her side while she was already down.

On the other hand, I do make sure I tell her when I notice guys are checking her out! 



loopytheone said:


> Insecure parents are the worst. Which is, in my opinion, what that woman's actions boils down to. She is insecure about her ability as a parent to raise intelligent, caring children and lashes out at anyone who makes her feel at all defensive. Sad, really.



I agree. Insecurity or even a sense of entitlement (ie: she believes her kid should be allowed to do whatever he wants, a belief that is very common these days) could be the culprit. Ignorance, selfishness, etc. There's a whole host of factors that combine to create the reaction she had to my wife's reaction to her kid mishandling an animal. We have to pick our fights and can't die on every hill, I suppose. For overweight people or those of us who are close to them, we need to have thick skin and let stuff like this go most of the time. People are going to be nasty, so a stiff upper lip and a determination to keep your chin up can go a long way.

Thanks, all for voicing your thoughts.


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## Marlayna (Apr 11, 2015)

Your wife was worried about the bunny, not her stupid kid. It's best to ignore ignorant people, and you did the right thing, but even a week later, it still hurts. I know how that feels. We all do.


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## kingmangoly (Apr 11, 2015)

I'm about a hundred pounds overweight so obviously I'm no stranger to these comments (rarely made directly to my face, I might add), but I take comfort from the fact that if my weight is the _only_ thing somebody can think of to ridicule me for then I'm obviously a half decent person at least .

It's just the default insult from angry people with small vocabularies who can't contain their own feelings of frustration, and I agree for sure that your wife didn't need the anxiety of a confrontation being caused.


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## one2one (Apr 12, 2015)

It's just getting so hard these days for angry people to find enough places to dump their emotional issues in socially acceptable ways. The fact that fat is kind of the last frontier, if your looking for that sort of thing, puts all of us in a precarious position. 

I agree that you probably wouldn't have changed things for the better by trying to say anything to the woman. About a week ago I pulled into a convenience store, and got out of my car. There was a car parked next to mine, and as I began walking toward the curb between the cars a woman in her early twenties stepped off the curb and came straight at me. There wasn't enough room for both of us, and I couldn't get out of her way or keep her from pushing me into my car as she passed me and got into the passenger side of the other car.

It wasn't an accident, and unfortunately I am apparently not as intellectually superior as you are. I muttered something about what I thought of her as I was stepping up onto the curb. When I came out, someone had spit on the drivers side front window of my car.

I've seen people behave in similar ways in response to people who deal with physical challenges, too. The first time I became aware of it was when I spent a week with someone who had lost a leg in a car accident. I was really stunned to see how much anger and disrespect was directed at her by complete strangers she had no interaction with at all except to be in the same vicinity in a grocery store or coffee shop, etc.


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## Yakatori (Apr 12, 2015)

> "_A Samurai warrior had the duty to avenge the murder of his overlord. After some time he found and cornered the man who had murdered his overlord.
> 
> As he unsheathed his sword to deal with this man in the corner, this man, in a passion of terror, spat in his face.
> 
> The samurai sheathed his sword and walked away._"



Everyone has to make their decisions, live with whatever consequences and implications. I-personally find that that things tend to progress from whatever my own frame of mind is.

If I respond out of anger or frustration, then the result will tend to be that I will come out of the situation even angrier or more exasperated than when I started. No matter how the person chooses to respond to whatever I may do.

Yet, if I respond in fear, in whichever way, this just exacerbates that sense of fear, regardless of how or when such fears ultimately materialize. 

But, when I, finally, come from a place of compassion; so too does my own sense compassion for myself and everyone else around me grow and thrive with it. No matter what follows physically or materially or otherwise.


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## landshark (Apr 12, 2015)

^ Very well said.



one2one said:


> It wasn't an accident, and unfortunately *I am apparently not as intellectually superior as you are.* I muttered something about what I thought of her as I was stepping up onto the curb. When I came out, someone had spit on the drivers side front window of my car.



You are either giving me too much credit or not giving yourself enough. Sometimes it's okay for people to be confronted in their rudeness. Like if someone cuts in front of me in a long line, they will probably hear about it (although there have been times I've let that go, too). Still, don't sell yourself short. We can control our reactions, but we're all only human!


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Apr 12, 2015)

loopytheone said:


> Insecure parents are the worst. Which is, in my opinion, what that woman's actions boils down to. She is insecure about her ability as a parent to raise intelligent, caring children and lashes out at anyone who makes her feel at all defensive. Sad, really.




This was my first thought- it was all deflection. Your wife's gasp wasn't even an insult to parenting....just a reaction to an innocent creature possibly being hurt. 

I think you were correct to not make a scene that could have ultimately really embarrassed not only your wife but the young boy, too. 

You thought ahead instead of making a knee jerk reaction. 

However, I will say, knowing myself, if *I* had heard that woman's reaction in reference to myself.....depending upon my mood, I might not have been able to take the high road, as you did. So kudos to you. 

I just like to think I have grown more self confident and "peaceful" in my middle age....and worry more about embarrassing my kids instead of "righting the wrongs" of dumbassery.


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## landshark (Apr 12, 2015)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I just like to think I have grown more self confident and "peaceful" in my middle age....and worry more about embarrassing my kids instead of "righting the wrongs" of dumbassery.



Remarkably well said.


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## Surlysomething (Apr 15, 2015)

I'm just curious why you mentioned "albeit, one that is trimming her weight".
It's almost like saying she's a BBW now (but not for long). This is the last place where you should feel the need to do that.



happily_married said:


> But I'm married to a wonderful BBW (albeit, one that is trimming her weight) so to see or hear scorn like this is hard to ignore.


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## landshark (Apr 15, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> I'm just curious why you mentioned "albeit, one that is trimming her weight".
> It's almost like saying she's a BBW now (but not for long). This is the last place where you should feel the need to do that.



No particular reason; it's just an additional detail about her that I believe is relevant because I've mentioned her weight loss efforts elsewhere on Dims as well.


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## Surlysomething (Apr 16, 2015)

It wasn't relevant at all.




happily_married said:


> No particular reason; it's just an additional detail about her that I believe is relevant because I've mentioned her weight loss efforts elsewhere on Dims as well.


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## Surlysomething (Apr 16, 2015)

It wasn't relevant at all. It's like you're saying she shouldn't be included with the rest of us fatties when we get called out about our weight because she's doing something about it. It's not necessary on this site.




happily_married said:


> No particular reason; it's just an additional detail about her that I believe is relevant because I've mentioned her weight loss efforts elsewhere on Dims as well.


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## Xyantha Reborn (Apr 16, 2015)

"But I'm married to a wonderful BBW (albeit, one that is trimming her weight) so to see or hear scorn like this is hard to ignore."

I didn't take it in a negative way...tho my interpretation may be way off.

I took it to mean that she is probably smaller than she was; its can be surprising to us to hear someone say so-and-so is fat when they are actually skinnier than they used to be...

If commenting on her weight loss alone, I just assumed that talking about it was part of his coming to grips with her weight loss. Redefining his own mental image of his big, beautiful wife to her still beautiful, but slowly reducing size.


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## landshark (Apr 17, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> It wasn't relevant at all. It's like you're saying she shouldn't be included with the rest of us fatties when we get called out about our weight because she's doing something about it. It's not necessary on this site.



First, I don't think any "fatties" should be called out for their weight. I think people deserve to be treated with respect and dignity until they demonstrate through their actions they are undeserving of such. 

Regarding the relevancy, it's my story and it's relevant to me. If you are looking for drama for the sake of drama please do so elsewhere. This is a thread about something someone said to/about my wife, and in a larger picture society's continued comfort level with open contempt for normal people who weigh more than other normal people. It is NOT about why or why not I included a given detail about my wife.



Xyantha Reborn said:


> "But I'm married to a wonderful BBW (albeit, one that is trimming her weight) so to see or hear scorn like this is hard to ignore."
> 
> I didn't take it in a negative way...tho my interpretation may be way off.
> 
> ...



You're not too far off. I still refer to my wife as a BBW because there is a bit of a mental lag between weight loss and the reality that one is not as big as they once were. Soon I won't be able to describe my wife as a BBW if she continues to have success with her weight loss. It's an adjustment to say the least, but a welcome one because she is happier now.


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## GoodDaySir (Apr 17, 2015)

Xyantha Reborn said:


> I took it to mean that she is probably smaller than she was; its can be surprising to us to hear someone say so-and-so is fat when they are actually skinnier than they used to be...
> 
> .



That is exactly how I read it.


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## Surlysomething (Apr 17, 2015)

No drama. It's a forum, you should expect differing opinions/observations. As a BBW I don't see the relevance to the story at all. Yes, it's_ your_ story but I don't see why that had to be a part of it. It speaks to the way people think of overweight people. If they're doing something about it, then it's always better and they look better in everyone's eyes. Right? You don't feel that part of it because you aren't someone that struggles with their weight. We live in a culture where justifying ourselves is a daily burden that most of us don't appreciate.





happily_married said:


> First, I don't think any "fatties" should be called out for their weight. I think people deserve to be treated with respect and dignity until they demonstrate through their actions they are undeserving of such.
> 
> Regarding the relevancy, it's my story and it's relevant to me. If you are looking for drama for the sake of drama please do so elsewhere. This is a thread about something someone said to/about my wife, and in a larger picture society's continued comfort level with open contempt for normal people who weigh more than other normal people. It is NOT about why or why not I included a given detail about my wife.
> 
> ...


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## landshark (Apr 17, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> No drama. It's a forum, you should expect differing opinions/observations. As a BBW I don't see the relevance to the story at all. Yes, it's_ your_ story but I don't see why that had to be a part of it. It speaks to the way people think of overweight people. If they're doing something about it, then it's always better and they look better in everyone's eyes. Right? You don't feel that part of it because you aren't someone that struggles with their weight. We live in a culture where justifying ourselves is a daily burden that most of us don't appreciate.



I expect and welcome differing opinions, as should you. I am also sympathetic to your reasons for objecting me including what you consider "justification." I can't relate as an overweight person, but I can relate from the standpoint of having to always explain or justify my preferences. They are constantly challenged by others (ie: "why do you like fat girls?") with that said, and as has been pointed out already, this is a period of adjustment for me and my wife. If my wife were to read that post, she would want to see some mention of her weight loss effort because it's an important part of who she is right now. It's absolutely relevant to me for that reason and an important footnote to the story. 

More importantly, a footnote I included, or why it's relevant to me or irrelevant to you is not what this thread is about. I think we're better served focussing on the actual topic than what, how, or why I included a detail in passing. After reading your most recent post I don't think you're looking for drama (I did think so and indicated as much earlier in this thread), but you're focussing on a single crouton and ignoring the whole salad.


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## Marlayna (Apr 17, 2015)

happily_married said:


> I expect and welcome differing opinions, as should you. I am also sympathetic to your reasons for objecting me including what you consider "justification." I can't relate as an overweight person, but I can relate from the standpoint of having to always explain or justify my preferences. They are constantly challenged by others (ie: "why do you like fat girls?") with that said, and as has been pointed out already, this is a period of adjustment for me and my wife. If my wife were to read that post, she would want to see some mention of her weight loss effort because it's an important part of who she is right now. It's absolutely relevant to me for that reason and an important footnote to the story.
> 
> More importantly, a footnote I included, or why it's relevant to me or irrelevant to you is not what this thread is about. I think we're better served focussing on the actual topic than what, how, or why I included a detail in passing. After reading your most recent post I don't think you're looking for drama (I did think so and indicated as much earlier in this thread), but you're focussing on a single crouton and ignoring the whole salad.


As you can see, even mentioning the dreaded "weight loss" topic is a hot button with some of our members. I've lost a lot of weight in the past 10 months, and I feel 100% better than before, however, I don't want to post my weight in the "what do you weigh" or "what are you happy about today" threads. I'm about 45 pounds overweight according to the charts, so I'm still a BBW, just a smaller one than before... but there's no where here to say that I'm proud of myself for all the work I've done.
I don't mean to de-rail your thread, I just wanted to relate my personal mis-givings about posting anything that brings up the subject of losing weight. I like fat men and I think fat women are beautiful, I just wanted to have more energy, and I do.http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Surlysomething (Apr 17, 2015)

It's cool. You don't understand what i'm trying to say.







happily_married said:


> I expect and welcome differing opinions, as should you. I am also sympathetic to your reasons for objecting me including what you consider "justification." I can't relate as an overweight person, but I can relate from the standpoint of having to always explain or justify my preferences. They are constantly challenged by others (ie: "why do you like fat girls?") with that said, and as has been pointed out already, this is a period of adjustment for me and my wife. If my wife were to read that post, she would want to see some mention of her weight loss effort because it's an important part of who she is right now. It's absolutely relevant to me for that reason and an important footnote to the story.
> 
> More importantly, a footnote I included, or why it's relevant to me or irrelevant to you is not what this thread is about. I think we're better served focussing on the actual topic than what, how, or why I included a detail in passing. After reading your most recent post I don't think you're looking for drama (I did think so and indicated as much earlier in this thread), but you're focussing on a single crouton and ignoring the whole salad.


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## Surlysomething (Apr 17, 2015)

No, you have it wrong. I'm not pissed about her weight loss. 

I just don't understand how it related to the story. People here talk about weight loss all the time in the context of health and feeling better etc. I'm sorry you don't feel comfortable mentioning it as many people are fine with it.




Marlayna said:


> As you can see, even mentioning the dreaded "weight loss" topic is a hot button with some of our members. I've lost a lot of weight in the past 10 months, and I feel 100% better than before, however, I don't want to post my weight in the "what do you weigh" or "what are you happy about today" threads. I'm about 45 pounds overweight according to the charts, so I'm still a BBW, just a smaller one than before... but there's no where here to say that I'm proud of myself for all the work I've done.
> I don't mean to de-rail your thread, I just wanted to relate my personal mis-givings about posting anything that brings up the subject of losing weight. I like fat men and I think fat women are beautiful, I just wanted to have more energy, and I do.http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Marlayna (Apr 17, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> No, you have it wrong. I'm not pissed about her weight loss.
> 
> I just don't understand how it related to the story. People here talk about weight loss all the time in the context of health and feeling better etc. I'm sorry you don't feel comfortable mentioning it as many people are fine with it.


Thank you.


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## landshark (Apr 17, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> It's cool. You don't understand what i'm trying to say.



I don't think you're giving me enough credit, but I'm really not all that worried about it either. You don't think it was a relevant detail and I am not going to try to change your mind. Others understood why I mentioned it, and it matters to me, but I know I'm not going to be able to sell everyone. 

I'd much prefer to discuss the larger topic.


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## landshark (Apr 17, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> As you can see, even mentioning the dreaded "weight loss" topic is a hot button with some of our members. I've lost a lot of weight in the past 10 months, and I feel 100% better than before, however, I don't want to post my weight in the "what do you weigh" or "what are you happy about today" threads. I'm about 45 pounds overweight according to the charts, so I'm still a BBW, just a smaller one than before... but there's no where here to say that I'm proud of myself for all the work I've done.
> I don't mean to de-rail your thread, I just wanted to relate my personal mis-givings about posting anything that brings up the subject of losing weight. I like fat men and I think fat women are beautiful, I just wanted to have more energy, and I do.http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/



It sounds like we are somewhat similar. I think BBWs are so beautiful, but for her sake I am very happy for my wife and her weight loss. She is able to participate in life to a greater extent than before. In everything from being able to sit on a ride with our kids at a theme park, to being able to kayak, to being more active and productive in what she determines are her daily priorities. It has been good for her.

I think if you post your weight loss progress with your reasons for losing weigh you'd find there are a lot of members here on Dims that would support you and cheer you on. You would at least have me in your corner, for whatever that's worth. 

I'm all about people being what they want to be. Gain, lose, or hold, if you are doing it for yourself then what everyone else things is secondary and irrelevant. That's why despite how much I loved my wife at her peak weight I am still very supportive of her efforts to lose weight. It has been hard for her and I've learned a lot about her character as she's tried, failed, kept a stiff upper lip, and tried again. I do think you should be proud of what you've accomplished. I think someone who has gained weight and is being who they want to be should be proud, too.


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## superodalisque (Apr 21, 2015)

referring to the original post:

I don't agree with silence. silence is agreement in the minds of many. it's wrong to abuse animals. it's wrong to abuse people for being fat. people who know better need to stand up.


_" In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers, we are not simply protecting their trivial old age, we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations. "_ — The Gulag Archipelago _ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn_


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## landshark (Apr 22, 2015)

^ discretion is the better part of valor. I pick my fights and refuse to die on every hill. I believe nothing good would have come from responding to this woman. Some people are just in it to get a rise out of others, and I won't give them that satisfaction. Some people just don't have enough intellect to make them worth engaging.


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## Surlysomething (Apr 22, 2015)

Was she aware that it was your wife she was referring to?



happily_married said:


> ^ discretion is the better part of valor. I pick my fights and refuse to die on every hill. I believe nothing good would have come from responding to this woman. Some people are just in it to get a rise out of others, and I won't give them that satisfaction. Some people just don't have enough intellect to make them worth engaging.


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## landshark (Apr 22, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> Was she aware that it was your wife she was referring to?



I don't know. I had been talking to her just a few seconds prior but it would be a guess at best to think this person noticed.


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## Surlysomething (Apr 22, 2015)

People think this behaviour is acceptable when no one speaks up.
Seriously. You don't have to sound like an asshole, but letting her know it's not appreciated is actually a good thing.

And if you're as proud of her as you say you are, mention that to these haters as well. I can't stand people that let this stuff spew out without any regard to how it makes other people feel. 




happily_married said:


> I don't know. I had been talking to her just a few seconds prior but it would be a guess at best to think this person noticed.


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## landshark (Apr 22, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> People think this behaviour is acceptable when no one speaks up.
> Seriously. You don't have to sound like an asshole, but letting her know it's not appreciated is actually a good thing.



You weren't there, I was. Everything about this person screamed confrontation. My silence was not agreement as SuperO suggests, more a product of not being willing to waste my time with a mental midget. In doing so I spared my wife the frustration and humiliation of an incident that likely would have escalated. 

There are times I am or can be reactive. As I said earlier I am picky with these because if I feel it is a waste of my time I am highly likely to brush it off. I just don't have time time or inclination to waste precious moments on stupid people.



> And if you're as proud of her as you say you are, mention that to these haters as well. I can't stand people that let this stuff spew out without any regard to how it makes other people feel.



That's what YOU would do or would have done. I'm not you. You're normalizing the situation to yourself, which is something we all do to a certain extent. The trick is to recognize we do it and step back and realize our own ways are not universal. 

Lastly I am as proud of her as I say I am. More so even because what I can communicate here is limited. Just because I didn't react the way you think I should have doesn't change that.


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## Xyantha Reborn (Apr 22, 2015)

I think that if i was your wife i would have been thankful you didnt ruin my day over some idiots comment, than loosing your temper, starting an arguement and drawing attention.

I am all for the fat acceptance and not shaming movement, but i dont think our loved ones should be used as a tool for that purpose to their own detriment. Zero would have been gained from it, and your wife would probably have been embarassed or upset that despite all her weight loss efforts that this happened....


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## Tad (Apr 22, 2015)

I completely second Xyantha on this.


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## superodalisque (Apr 22, 2015)

this is why i'll never understand the "acceptance" movement and have moved on from it -- too much acceptance of bad behavior rather than our own personal dignity. if someone called me ****** under their breath I would be very impressed if my SO did something or said something about it. it would not ruin my day at all. in fact he has faced down someone who spoke about my size before. it did not embarrassed me at all. in fact it made my day and I respected him even more. 

for some people it really must not mean much to be disrespected. if you complain about not being accepted and make it okay for nothing to be done because of momentary personal comfort you're probably the very reason fat bashing is the last acceptable prejudice. every freedom costs you something. it's not free. if you're not willing to pay the price you remain enslaved by prejudice. paying SA lip service isn't enough.

if I was so afraid of confrontation I would be a slave, I would have had to go to a segregated school if any at all and I would not be a citizen of the US and able to vote. my people both African American and Jewish actually stood up in the face of losing their lives so I have very little respect for those who won't stand up because a few harsh words might ruin their day. asking for rights and equality while taking that position is totally laughable.

this is why I probably have it a lot better in some ways as a black person because if someone did the same to me I could depend on a lot of people even strangers to speak out strongly in my defense. they would expect to and be happy to. it's a sad situation that fat people wouldn't expect or even want the same even from people who claim to care.

it's no excuse that it is dumb people saying these things. it was dumb people who blocked the doors of schools and spat at innocent children. the reason they did is because they thought everyone agreed because it was tolerated for a very long time.

it's weird to me seeing a bunch of people who are always talking about how important and fair it is for fat people not to have to deal with prejudice who are so unwilling to even just speak up when fat prejudice happens.


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## landshark (Apr 22, 2015)

^ I see your points and respect your point of view. But as I said to Surly, they're YOUR points based on how YOU view the world around you which is by no means universal. I don't necessarily think you're wrong. But neither am I, or those who agree with me. I think there's a time and place to take a stand and the incident described in the initial post of this thread was not one of them.


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## superodalisque (Apr 22, 2015)

uh huh. if you think so. just don't complain when people think it's open season on your wife and others. you are mistaken if you are thinking you aren't teaching people how to behave and what will be tolerated.


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## GoodDaySir (Apr 23, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> uh huh. if you think so. just don't complain when people think it's open season on your wife and others. you are mistaken if you are thinking you aren't teaching people how to behave and what will be tolerated.



wow that was seriously a super nasty thing to say.


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## landshark (Apr 23, 2015)

GoodDaySir said:


> wow that was seriously a super nasty thing to say.



Don't worry about it. Dismissing ignorant comments is easier to do online than it is in person.


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## Surlysomething (Apr 23, 2015)

How is that nasty? I completely agree.

Don't think you're doing anyone any favours when you're quiet about these sorts of things. 




GoodDaySir said:


> wow that was seriously a super nasty thing to say.


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## Surlysomething (Apr 23, 2015)

I just find it all so disappointing and depressing. So 'vanilla' almost.

I've never been a part of the socially acceptable, suburban conservative lifestyle choice so I shouldn't be surprised about your non-reaction. But then, i'm not a wallflower, hoping people will clue in one day and not be so nasty.

I know many people who wouldn't do anything exactly like you (and then message me or take me aside privately and say that they wished they had the courage to speak up like I do). If a person is strong enough in themselves why would it be humiliating? I feel a sense of pride when I stand up to asshole people like that.

I DO THINK IT'S SOMETHING WORTH HAVING A BATTLE OVER. And I didn't need to be there to know that. 

It's a forum, we're all allowed to have and voice our own opinions, that's what makes it interesting. You seem so dismissive with anyone that disagrees with you. That's unfortunate as well. You're more concerned about your right to say/feel what you want than you are with seeing another point of view.



happily_married said:


> You weren't there, I was. Everything about this person screamed confrontation. My silence was not agreement as SuperO suggests, more a product of not being willing to waste my time with a mental midget. In doing so I spared my wife the frustration and humiliation of an incident that likely would have escalated.
> 
> There are times I am or can be reactive. As I said earlier I am picky with these because if I feel it is a waste of my time I am highly likely to brush it off. I just don't have time time or inclination to waste precious moments on stupid people.
> 
> ...


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## landshark (Apr 23, 2015)

Surly, you are actually the one being dismissive of points of view that differ from your own. I've never indicated I believe you're wrong. I've just indicated how you approach the situation is different than how I would. That's not dismissive, it's a statement of comparative values driven by different personalities. On the other hand, you seem to be indicating outright that I was wrong to hold my fire. That is dismissive and ignorant to the reality that your way is not necessarily always the right way. 

If you are going to accuse me of being dismissive I challenge you to prove it using my own words. (Read: use direct quotes.) I'll wait.


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## Surlysomething (Apr 23, 2015)

Deflection.

Boring.






happily_married said:


> Surly, you are actually the one being dismissive of points of view that differ from your own. I've never indicated I believe you're wrong. I've just indicated how you approach the situation is different than how I would. That's not dismissive, it's a statement of comparative values driven by different personalities. On the other hand, you seem to be indicating outright that I was wrong to hold my fire. That is dismissive and ignorant to the reality that your way is not necessarily always the right way.
> 
> If you are going to accuse me of being dismissive I challenge you to prove it using my own words. (Read: use direct quotes.) I'll wait.


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## landshark (Apr 23, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> Deflection.
> 
> Boring.



So does that mean you are unwilling to accept my challenge? Despite how much "courage" you have? Or maybe you're just unable? Which is it?

Also, this is for you:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/deflection?s=t

Knowing the definition of the word will help with proper use of the word and help avoid using it where not appropriate. For example, dismissing my post as a deflection when it was very much on topic and responsive to one of your posts. 

I still invite you to demonstrate how I've been dismissive of your posts because you disagree with me. You've made this accusation a couple times. If you are unable to support it, perhaps a retraction of this claim would be appropriate.


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## Tad (Apr 23, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> I DO THINK IT'S SOMETHING WORTH HAVING A BATTLE OVER. And I didn't need to be there to know that.



Which was worth having a battle over? 
- That the woman mumbled an insult under her breath? 
- That she chose "fat ass" as her insult?


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## Surlysomething (Apr 23, 2015)

I don't play games with people like you.

That's a waste of MY time. If you can't have a half decent conversation with someone trying to make a point from a different view, so be it.

Carry on with your self righteousness.



happily_married said:


> So does that mean you are unwilling to accept my challenge? Despite how much "courage" you have? Or maybe you're just unable? Which is it?
> 
> Also, this is for you:
> 
> ...


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## Surlysomething (Apr 23, 2015)

Seriously? I have to answer that for you?

Wow.

Haha




Tad said:


> Which was worth having a battle over?
> - That the woman mumbled an insult under her breath?
> - That she chose "fat ass" as her insult?


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## landshark (Apr 23, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> I don't play games with people like you.
> 
> That's a waste of MY time. If you can't have a half decent conversation with someone trying to make a point from a different view, so be it.
> 
> Carry on with your self righteousness.



I'm not sure what you expect. I share a story, you first zero in on something you didn't like and didn't like my reason for including it, and now you're indicating I'm wrong for reacting the way I did. When I respond by defending my position you write it off as me being dismissive of points of view that do not agree with my own. 

The most ironic thing about that is you are the one being dismissive of people who don't agree with you. I don't have to agree with you to appreciate your position. You seem to have to agree with others to appreciate their position, otherwise they are wrong. You've excluded the possibility that my reaction was appropriate for the situation. I have not excluded the possibility that in SOME situations confronting someone is acceptable. Surly, YOU are the one being dismissive, not me. When you exclude possibilities you are willfully limiting your scope of understanding of the issue. And then have the temerity to accuse others of doing the same without supporting your claim they are doing so. 

I will one more time repeat my challenge to you: demonstrate how I've been dismissive due to disagreement.


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## landshark (Apr 23, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> Seriously? I have to answer that for you?
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Haha



Hmm...seems awfully dismissive of a legitimate question.


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## cinnamitch (Apr 23, 2015)

I try to imagine if that would have been one of my loved ones (S/O, child,parent, etc..), I would have probably spoken up. That's just me. I won't tolerate someone dissing someone I care about. What if your wife had been called something even worse? Would you have stepped up then? Not being an ass, Just curious as to what the acceptance level for derogatory comments to your wife?


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## Marlayna (Apr 23, 2015)

It was more loving and protective to let the rude woman go on her merry way, than argue with a dumbass who would just ruin a nice day. His wife didn't hear the comment, thankfully. No harm, no foul. One day she'll make her "fatass" comment to the wrong person, and she'll get her teeth handed to her.


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## Yakatori (Apr 23, 2015)

GoodDaySir said:


> "_wow that was seriously a super nasty thing to say._"


Meh, I think you're overstating it just a bit. There's a real point at issue here, and she feels strongly about what's she trying to get across. It's not really personal outside of that.



Surlysomething said:


> "_How is that nasty?_"


Well, he's relating this unpleasant experience he's had. And you guys are, kind of, calling him a _punk_.

If the genders were reversed here, I wouldn't be surprised to hear some expressing complaints of _victim-blaming_. Of course, the genders are not reversed; and so, there's that, as well.



Tad said:


> "_Which was worth having a battle over?
> - That the woman mumbled an insult under her breath?
> - That she chose "fat ass" as her insult?_"


In this context, some say both.



happily_married said:


> The most ironic thing about that is you are *the one* being dismissive of people who don't agree with you.... YOU are the one being dismissive, not me...


The two aren't mutually exclusive. You both be dismissive of each other's views concurrently, at the same time. Although, here, I admit you're less openly dismissive of what they're saying then they're being towards you. (Maybe they feel they know something you don't. Or...)

And, I think you have a fair point in that you were the one in the situation, up against it as it were.

Also, worth pointing out, how (so far) it's only the women who're calling you out. In as much as there's some practical difference between you, as a man, initiating a confrontation with some woman you don't really know. Versus how it might play out for them, as..._women of size_.



superodalisque said:


> "_...if someone called me ****** under their breath.....I probably have it a lot better in some ways as a black person because if someone did the same to me I could depend on a lot of people even strangers to speak out strongly in my defense. they would expect to and be happy to._"


As much as I think the analogy's worth exploring; and appreciate the value of it in how so few of the regulars here (none?) would make that kind of comparison so openly, nakedly; this is just a little bit different. Although, even just considering the basic similarity, it's still important to be mindful of other considerations:



superodalisque said:


> "_...if *I* was so afraid of confrontation I would be a slave, I would have had to go to a segregated school if any at all and I would not be a citizen of the US and able to vote. my people...*stood up in the face of losing their live*s so I have very little respect for those who won't stand up because.._"


Well, wait a second. It may well be that you feel one with your people; but...you were not an escaped slave on the underground railroad. Nor were you ever in a concentration camp.

Otherwise you would know that your people did pick their battles. And paid dearly for any miscalculation.



superodalisque said:


> "_it's no excuse...the reason they did is because they thought everyone agreed because it was tolerated for a very long time._"


There are no excuses either way. But it's simply not true that people who resisted integration trusted that everyone agreed with them. The deep-seated fear of further encroachment also exacerbated tensions as well. 

When people feel cornered like that, indeed, they do tend to be more violent.


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## landshark (Apr 23, 2015)

cinnamitch said:


> I try to imagine if that would have been one of my loved ones (S/O, child,parent, etc..), I would have probably spoken up. That's just me. I won't tolerate someone dissing someone I care about. What if your wife had been called something even worse? Would you have stepped up then? Not being an ass, Just curious as to what the acceptance level for derogatory comments to your wife?



I think it's a game changer if my wife heard the comment. In that scenario the main reason for me not reacting would be instantly mitigated and I am not sure I would have taken the high road. For that matter, my wife may have been the one to react had she heard the comment. 

All of that is irrelevant because one cannot prove a counterfactual. I don't necessarily think speaking up would have been wrong in some circumstances, a point I've made a few times now. In this case I believe it would have led to escalation and confrontation, likely with her husband jumping in and who knows what else. All speculation of course. There's an also a chance she would have apologized and that would be that. Either way, faced with all that uncertainty and my protection of my wife's dignity at stake, the best reaction was to ignore the ignorant. 

###

Good post, Yakatori.


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## superodalisque (Apr 24, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> Meh, I think you're overstating it just a bit. There's a real point at issue here, and she feels strongly about what's she trying to get across. It's not really personal outside of that.
> 
> Well, he's relating this unpleasant experience he's had. And you guys are, kind of, calling him a _punk_.
> 
> ...


 
I lived in Alabama and I KNOW people who were resisting integration thought that most agreed with them or they could pretend to themselves that they did. silence allowed that. I was there in Alabama when this stuff was happening. prejudice was wide spread and common. people who knew better were quiet for the same reasons you're stating. but that level of prejudice did not stop until the worse were shown up and forced to stop by world opinion embarrassment protest and our gov't forces. they did go bonkers but that worked in our favor and showed them up for what they were. 
you don't have to be rude or loud to stand up. all you have to do is tell people no and voice what is unacceptable. as MLK proved you don't have to be disrespectful to do that.

I never said I was a slave or a holocaust victim but was I said was acquiescence does not work. I didn't have to be there history was. it didn't work during the holocaust. ask the jews who were quiet because they thought things would blow over and they didn't want to cause any trouble. ask germans who did not speak up who knew better what they wish they had done. true there are not ovens but there are other more polite ways to kill people --suicide and medical neglect. you can also kill people emotionally and take away their life's potential in that way as well. 

jews nor african americans EVER "cornered" anyone but they were violated anyway. what finally stopped the situation was people being forced to stop and not the silence ever. when someone is fat shaming you if you defend yourself you aren't cornering anyone. they were cornering you! it's time to get that straight right now. 

I really don't care what most of the regulars here would do. i'm long past caring what they do. so are a lot of people who really want to have an impact. I do care that new people don't get caught up in benign self neglect and a laissez faire attitude. the truth is prejudice works the same in every situation. if you tolerate it it will continue. if you're silent people become more emboldened and solidified in their belief system. there hasn't ever been once in any history in any part of the world that prejudice has been stopped when people refuse to face it down. you can lie to yourself all you want but history does not bear you out in any case. there isn't one example you'll find where silence regarding prejudice toward a scapegoated group ended in any kind of respect or equality.

I would be personally ashamed to stand by and let anyone I know be disrespected like that. not only because of that day and that incident but because I know it paves the way for them to have to go out one day and have someone like that say it bold and loudly to their face or someone else's. 

if you don't think fat prejudice exists or that it doesn't hurt people and cause them to be emotionally battered depressed and suicidal or die because people ignore actual health symptoms when they are sick then by all means stay quiet. if you don't want things to change at all and you like them exactly the way that they are then stay quiet. the rest of us out there will continue to speak up for ourselves and our friends and continue making headway and people who do nothing can continue to enjoy the benefit of that and sit on their humps and theorize while the rest of us act. and when the day comes and it becomes mainly unacceptable still stay quiet because you had absolutely nothing to do with changing things and taking opportunities from the teaching opportunities that came your way.


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## lucca23v2 (Apr 24, 2015)

Why are people so bothered about something that did not happen to them? We *ALL* *make comments under our breaths that we shouldn't.* Sometimes we get caught, as she did. Sometimes people will let us get away with it as married did because some things are not worth the effort it will take to call them on it. Most of the time, no matter how much you go after the person and shame them, they will not change.. and in fact, it will only serve to make the situation worse.

For all anyone knows, that person can have a fat relative and went home and felt bad for saying something like that because they felt embarrassed because of their child's bad behavior. Him reacting could have made everyone's day worse.

So would it have been worth ruining a perfectly happy family day over a stupid comment made in the heat of the moment? Because reacting would not only have ruined his day, it would have ruined the day for his wife, their kids and the rude woman's children as well. That is a lot of disappointment over a stupid comment. 

As an SSBBW, there are fights you have to fight, but sometimes saying nothing makes a bigger impact. 

You have to know when to fight and when to hold your peace.

JMO


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## Surlysomething (Apr 24, 2015)

This. Thank you for putting it into words that I just couldn't find yesterday. 

:bow:




superodalisque said:


> I really don't care what most of the regulars here would do. i'm long past caring what they do. so are a lot of people who really want to have an impact. I do care that new people don't get caught up in benign self neglect and a laissez faire attitude. the truth is prejudice works the same in every situation. if you tolerate it it will continue. if you're silent people become more emboldened and solidified in their belief system. there hasn't ever been once in any history in any part of the world that prejudice has been stopped when people refuse to face it down. you can lie to yourself all you want but history does not bear you out in any case. there isn't one example you'll find where silence regarding prejudice toward a scapegoated group ended in any kind of respect or equality.
> 
> I would be personally ashamed to stand by and let anyone I know be disrespected like that. not only because of that day and that incident but because I know it paves the way for them to have to go out one day and have someone like that say it bold and loudly to their face or someone else's.
> 
> if you don't think fat prejudice exists or that it doesn't hurt people and cause them to be emotionally battered depressed and suicidal or die because people ignore actual health symptoms when they are sick then by all means stay quiet. if you don't want things to change at all and you like them exactly the way that they are then stay quiet. the rest of us out there will continue to speak up for ourselves and our friends and continue making headway and people who do nothing can continue to enjoy the benefit of that and sit on their humps and theorize while the rest of us act. and when the day comes and it becomes mainly unacceptable still stay quiet because you had absolutely nothing to do with changing things and taking opportunities from the teaching opportunities that came your way.


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## GoodDaySir (Apr 24, 2015)

I wouldn't have said anything. Calling that woman out would've surely embarrassed his wife, escalated to something worse and the woman wouldnt have learned anything from it anyway.


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## Tad (Apr 24, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> Seriously? I have to answer that for you?
> 
> Wow.
> 
> Haha



Seriously. 

It wouldn't even have crossed my mind to react to what she said, whereas it is obviously quite opposite for you. So I'm curious as to which part would have drawn that reaction. I don't know if we just read the situation totally differently, or would be acting on deeply different assumptions--but I figure step one to understanding that part is understanding which part you are mostly reacting two (or it could be the specific combination, I hadn't thought of that possibility in my original question).

And I'm serious about wanting to understand your point of view. I don't always agree with you, but I do respect you and your opinions. So when I find myself wildly out of whack with how you are looking at something, I want to understand why--it is entirely possible that I'll learn something, and maybe change how I look at the situation.


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## Surlysomething (Apr 24, 2015)

Because something needed to be said. People need to know that there are things they should keep to themselves. If people don't speak up it's saying that it's ok. I'm not afraid of anyone's reaction to what I say. I have no problem with confrontation. Maybe you haven't had someone talk to you that way or heard something by "mistake" that was said about your body, but I have, many times. Guess what, you talk about me or my people, you're going to hear about it. And if it embarrasses them, good. I never take it further than making them aware of what they did, i'm not insane. But letting it happen? No. 

Again, i'm not a conservative, vanilla, suburban, don't rock the boat person. So many people let these things slide in life because they don't want to draw attention to themselves and that's why poor behaviour continues on. It's especially bad these days. Kids have no respect and I believe they learn that because their parents don't show any respect and think it's ok to do or say whatever they want without consequence.

Go ahead and blend in with your surroundings, but prepare to put up with a lot of crap unnecessarily. I don't tolerate it in my life.





Tad said:


> Seriously.
> 
> It wouldn't even have crossed my mind to react to what she said, whereas it is obviously quite opposite for you. So I'm curious as to which part would have drawn that reaction. I don't know if we just read the situation totally differently, or would be acting on deeply different assumptions--but I figure step one to understanding that part is understanding which part you are mostly reacting two (or it could be the specific combination, I hadn't thought of that possibility in my original question).
> 
> And I'm serious about wanting to understand your point of view. I don't always agree with you, but I do respect you and your opinions. So when I find myself wildly out of whack with how you are looking at something, I want to understand why--it is entirely possible that I'll learn something, and maybe change how I look at the situation.


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## landshark (Apr 24, 2015)

lucca23v2 said:


> You have to know when to fight and when to hold your peace.



I agree completely. Having some discernment is better than going in gunz-a-blazin' over every little offense or perceived offense. I'd be willing to bet those who are advocating confrontation at every turn have made themselves look foolish in public a few times. I suppose we'll never know. For that matter, I'd bet even they didn't know because a lot of times people are oblivious to how foolish they really appear.


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## Surlysomething (Apr 24, 2015)

No, I never appear foolish when i'm right. And I always am when I decide to say something. I pick my battles just like you do, we just disagree on how important this was. But then, you're not a BBW who's been harassed before.

And life goes on.




happily_married said:


> I agree completely. Having some discernment is better than going in gunz-a-blazin' over every little offense or perceived offense. I'd be willing to bet those who are advocating confrontation at every turn have made themselves look foolish in public a few times. I suppose we'll never know. For that matter, I'd bet even they didn't know because a lot of times people are oblivious to how foolish they really appear.


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## LeoGibson (Apr 24, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> *.....I have no problem with confrontation.....*
> 
> *.....Again, i'm not a conservative, vanilla, suburban, don't rock the boat person....*



Are you 100% sure you're actually Canadian?


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## Yakatori (Apr 24, 2015)

lucca23v2 said:


> "_Why are people so bothered about something that did not happen to them?_"


Because there's a real point at issue that has probably affected each of us in one way or another. And so everyone's is taking a turn at validating their own experience, what they've figured out for themselves in the process.



lucca23v2 said:


> "_We *ALL* *make comments under our breaths that we shouldn't.*_"



Well, besides me, of course; I'm sweet as pie. Just ask my mom. 



superodalisque said:


> "_you don't have to be rude or loud to stand up. all you have to do is tell people no and voice what is unacceptable. as MLK proved you don't have to be disrespectful to do that._"


I would agree, but with the caveat that it's typically much easier said than done. The more experience you have, the better you get at it; the bigger mountains you can ultimately climb.

But, of course, you can try to just say "_no_" and watch things escalate right from there. It happens sometimes.


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## landshark (Apr 24, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> No, I never appear foolish when i'm right. And I always am when I decide to say something. I pick my battles just like you do, we just disagree on how important this was. But then, you're not a BBW who's been harassed before.
> 
> And life goes on.



If you are as confrontational as you claim to be, you've definitely made yourself look foolish. You just don't realize it because you weren't a part of the conversations between observers following your confrontations. 

And I'm still puzzled at why, if you are so confrontational and courageous, you still have not taken the time to accept my challenge. If you want to know why I am dismissive of you, it isn't because we disagree. Others on this thread disagree and I am not dismissive of them. I am dismissive of you because you lack credibility. The intellectual value of your content is dismal. Anytime you are willing to assume your way is right and anyone who does something other than what YOU would have done in a given situation is wrong you are displaying ignorance and a very limited scope of understanding. 

That I'm not a BBW who has never been harassed does not diminish my reason for passing on this battle. And while I have never been harassed for being a BBW, I have been harassed for having a preference for BBWs, as well as for being white in a predominantly Hispanic area. I am not foreign to the idea and experience of being an outsider due to a preference or physical characteristic. 



Yakatori said:


> Because there's a real point at issue that has probably affected each of us in one way or another. And so everyone's is taking a turn at validating their own experience, what they've figured out for themselves in the process.



And this is key: everyone is speaking from the standpoint of their own experiences. There is not a one of us here who is universally right. I think everyone has made some valid points, but we run into problems when some actually seem to believe they ARE universally right. The "my way or the highway" mentality is usually a symptom of ignorance insomuch as it is close minded to the possibility that someone else's point of view has its own legitimacy.



Yakatori said:


> I would agree, but with the caveat that it's typically much easier said than done. The more experience you have, the better you get at it; the bigger mountains you can ultimately climb.
> 
> But, of course, you can try to just say "_no_" and watch things escalate right from there. It happens sometimes.



In my short time on this earth I've met people who are just looking for a reason to escalate a situation. No amount of being polite and calm will successfully result in a civil reaction with some people. Imagine I politely as possible respond to the woman. There is no way to know how she'd react. I've seen people be apologetic and I've seen situations blow up. Let's say she reacts rudely and draws attention to us. Then her husband joins in. Now my wife is looking over thinking, "WTF?" Regardless of how the confrontation ends, ultimately it leads to a stain on the day when my wife, very sensitive about her weight, learns what someone said about her. 

In a fraction of a second this played out in my mind. And that quickly I determined this person didn't rate the dignity of a reply.


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## Marlayna (Apr 24, 2015)

happily_married said:


> I agree completely. Having some discernment is better than going in gunz-a-blazin' over every little offense or perceived offense. I'd be willing to bet those who are advocating confrontation at every turn have made themselves look foolish in public a few times. I suppose we'll never know. For that matter, I'd bet even they didn't know because a lot of times people are oblivious to how foolish they really appear.


Along those lines, there was a time about ten years ago, where I had some kind of confrontation every time I left the house, even if it was shouting at a car I felt didn't give me the right of way. I mean every single day! When I moved away from there, I realized that if I got into "confrontations" every day, the problem was partly with *me.:doh:*http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## landshark (Apr 24, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> Along those lines, there was a time about ten years ago, where I had some kind of confrontation every time I left the house, even if it was shouting at a car I felt didn't give me the right of way. I mean every single day! When I moved away from there, I realized that if I got into "confrontations" every day, the problem was partly with *me.:doh:*http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/



Well said.


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## superodalisque (Apr 25, 2015)

there is a difference between yelling screaming anger and confronting calmly. I know anytime anyone says anything out of line about my or someone else's fat self black self jewish self or female self I never let it pass. if they want to yell and act out they just make my point for me. that they are irrational out of control foolish and wrong. I can say please do not call me or my friend whatever. I can say when you said such and such that was not right or acceptable. I can tell them to apologize. but I don't have to yell spew or name call to do that. if they want to take it that way that's their business. but I always remain calm. 

but, i won't let their big mouth scare me into acting in a way that someone else feels I agree. think about it. what if a little fat child saw that scene unnoticed. how would that make them feel about themselves especially once they realized that was your spouse? we think we're alone but we never really are. it's not just about us all of the time. I seriously doubt your wife is so emotionally frail that she couldn't have dealt with a few minutes of disharmony. and maybe she would trade those few moment of being pissed off for a potential future of running into that kind of thing exponentially less or even not at all. I remember my dad said during Jim Crowe he was called ****** so much he though that was his name. so is fat ass your wive's name any time she opens her mouth to use her right to say something ?

people who think a confrontation has be a fight might be making a mistake. believe me if you don't want to take it there someone else will take your position there for you. others will join you. they'll fight if you don't want to but please give people the chance. it only takes the first voice. people hate bullies because everybody has been bullied about something. but it takes the first voice that gives other good people courage. the whole purpose is to show people that they've been deluding themselves that the whole world agrees with their cruelty because they don't. 

bullies get away with bullying because of silence but when the majority of people say no say they disagree and openly turn against them they stop for good. it's just that simple. so it's doubly important for people who are not also fat to speak up. bullies count on you not wanting to cause a stir. so they mumble something poisonous under their breath and run quickly away to avoid getting called on it. don't fall for that. 

as long as people keep staying silent and thinking it's somehow easier for them or their loved ones that way fat folk will continue to face the actual atmosphere of discrimination that is really causing the problem and it will NEVER go away. if you don't make it unacceptable fat prejudice will just continue being the last acceptable prejudice.


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## Marlayna (Apr 25, 2015)

happily_married said:


> Well said.


The bunny deserved an apology from that bitchy lady's brat! 
It's a husband's job to protect his family, and that's what you did. Kudos to you! If I got called out for all the times I muttered insults under my breath to a stranger, I'd be in big trouble.


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## landshark (Apr 25, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> The bunny deserved an apology from that bitchy lady's brat!
> It's a husband's job to protect his family, and that's what you did. Kudos to you! If I got called out for all the times I muttered insults under my breath to a stranger, I'd be in big trouble.



Exactly. I can appreciate that not everyone agrees with remaining silent. We're all different and react differently to these things. But it's actually a little disturbing how judgmental some people can be. "If you don't react the I would have reacted you're wrong." People who can only consider their own opinion are of absolutely no use to me, and likely of very limited use to humanity as a whole.


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## superodalisque (Apr 25, 2015)

happily_married said:


> Exactly. I can appreciate that not everyone agrees with remaining silent. We're all different and react differently to these things. But it's actually a little disturbing how judgmental some people can be. "If you don't react the I would have reacted you're wrong." People who can only consider their own opinion are of absolutely no use to me, and likely of very limited use to humanity as a whole.


 
there were black people who did not want MLK to march because he would upset their apple cart. were they right ? no. did people have the right to say they were wrong --yes.

I don't trust people who tell me not to judge when there is something important at stake for me and not for them. sometimes you'd better judge if you know what's good for you. 

don't judge because someone lets their friends and family be called fat ass right in front of them ? really ?

if people don't want judgment this is the wrong place to post stuff. if people are totally looking for people to judge them right by putting things here but suddenly have a problem when they put it here and people judge it wrong that would sound pretty disingenuous and hypocritical to a LOT of people.

warning: don't want opinions? don't post it on a forum. how many times do we need to go over that idea?


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## Surlysomething (Apr 25, 2015)

That's what it says on my birth certificate. 




LeoGibson said:


> Are you 100% sure you're actually Canadian?


----------



## Surlysomething (Apr 25, 2015)

I can't bang my head against the wall with this thread anymore.
It's mind boggingly painful. :doh: 


I'm so glad I have people in my life that would never let that kind of behaviour slide.


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## landshark (Apr 25, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> warning: don't want opinions? don't post it on a forum. how many times do we need to go over that idea?



You and Surly are two peas in a pod. Just because I disagree with you does not mean I don't welcome either your position or hers. To equate dissent with a lack of respect is a fallacy. If you were willing to employ a little intellectual honesty you'd be able to recognize this. At the same time, I also insist my opinions be respected as well, a courtesy neither you nor her have extended me or anyone else who has the audacity to disagree with you.

It seems you want to be able to respond with an argument (which is fine) and expect everyone to just fall in line with you. I may be a sub, but I'm no follower, especially a follower of one unworthy to be followed. Like Surly you've accused me of not being able to handle opposing views. Like Surly it's actually you who seems to be struggling with respecting an opposing view. 

Any time you wish to act like a grown woman and engage in respectful dialogue that leaves predisposed opinions checked at the door I will welcome you. Until then, I simply can't take you seriously. You are actually a lot like the woman from the incident that started this thread. Confronted with something she didn't like (to wit: my wife's reaction to something her child did) she reacted with passive aggressive hostilities. Just like you when confronted with someone who has the temerity to disagree with you. 

I believe you've referred to her actions as "ignorant." An honest self-assessment of your behavior throughout this thread would likely lead you to conclude the same for yourself. Key word: "honest." I won't hold my breath. 



Surlysomething said:


> I can't bang my head against the wall with this thread anymore.
> It's mind boggingly painful. :doh:



It doesn't have to be. You've chosen to make it so by refusing to respect others' positions on the matter. When you insist your way is right and all others are wrong, you're going to get some disagreement. And if you're going to let that disagreement get under your skin you have nobody to blame but yourself. 

Life is a lot easier when you respect others.


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## superodalisque (Apr 25, 2015)

happily_married said:


> You and Surly are two peas in a pod. Just because I disagree with you does not mean I don't welcome either your position or hers. To equate dissent with a lack of respect is a fallacy. If you were willing to employ a little intellectual honesty you'd be able to recognize this. At the same time, I also insist my opinions be respected as well, a courtesy neither you nor her have extended me or anyone else who has the audacity to disagree with you.
> 
> It seems you want to be able to respond with an argument (which is fine) and expect everyone to just fall in line with you. I may be a sub, but I'm no follower, especially a follower of one unworthy to be followed. Like Surly you've accused me of not being able to handle opposing views. Like Surly it's actually you who seems to be struggling with respecting an opposing view.
> 
> ...


 

pretending like I find what you did understandable when I don't is not acting like a grown woman. i'm not going to lie to you on an opinion post about a situation just so you'll like it . sorry. 

and, as stated before I could care less what your opinion is of me personally especially since you don't know me and never will. I could never speak for her but i can pretty much guess that Surly probably doesn't care what you think of her either.


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## landshark (Apr 25, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> pretending like I understand you is not acting like a grown woman.





Respecting the opinions of others, even those with which you disagree, is.


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## superodalisque (Apr 25, 2015)

happily_married said:


> Respecting the opinions of others, even those with which you disagree, is.


 
lol people sure do whine a lot when the don't get their way don't they


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## moore2me (Apr 25, 2015)

When I first read the story, the first thing that came to mind was . . . " A Petting Zoo is not training torturing rabbits." Fat or not, first off was anyone watching out for the animals' welfare?" If yes, that person needed to be watching the stock a little closer, AKA Peta cruelty prevention stuff. 

Kids need to be shown how to handle animals and told what not to do. Dropping a rabbit on its head is bad procedure and should be explained so the young child can understand why it was wrong. I would have been better to tell them how to pet the rabbit in the first place. And not all bunnies are push overs. Some can swing their upper body up while you hold their back legs and give a vicious bite to someone threatening them. Rabbits with loose skin can also turn around under their skin and do the same thing. The business part of a rabbit are its teeth primarily - a word to the wise. (Which the little tyke's mom needed some additional info.) Plus dropping any animal on its little head needs to be curtailed immediately - by some adult in a kind manner.

You and your wife caught the wrong - other caretakers did not. 

(And on a deeper level). preventing junior from being the next person to be a serial brute is even more important - what FBI sees in these guys backgrounds ....
(1) torturing animals
(2) firestarting
(3) excessive use of porn.


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## Surlysomething (Apr 25, 2015)

No, I just think *you're* wrong. 

I don't respect people that sit around not doing anything when they should be speaking up. Keep up the "good" work! Haha 









happily_married said:


> It doesn't have to be. You've chosen to make it so by refusing to respect others' positions on the matter. When you insist your way is right and all others are wrong, you're going to get some disagreement. And if you're going to let that disagreement get under your skin you have nobody to blame but yourself.
> 
> Life is a lot easier when you respect others.



View attachment Sign_Roundabout.jpg


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## Yakatori (Apr 26, 2015)

moore2me said:


> "_...was anyone watching out for the animals' welfare?" If yes, that person needed to be watching the stock a little closer...
> Kids need to be shown how to handle animals and told what not to do...would have been better to tell them how to pet the rabbit in the first place. And not all bunnies are push overs..._"


Yeah, absolutely. Especially since they're dealing with these same issues day-in and day-out. Definitely worth at least saying something to someone in charge over there, all the way up until you get to where they're actually prepared to listen.



superodalisque said:


> "_...there is a difference between yelling screaming anger and confronting calmly...*I can* say please do not call me or my friend whatever. *I can* say when you said such and such that was not right or acceptable. *I can* tell them to apologize. but *I don't have to* yell spew or name call to do that. if they want to take it that way that's their business. but *I always* remain calm._"


Yes, you can. As can we all, really; which you know best from having done it again and again.

That's great. For you. But not everyone is you. Not everyone's coming from the same experience. And so, for you, maybe part of the challenge is in how to better articulate your own experience in such a way that makes it more actionable, approachable, etc...for someone who's coming from a point of view even you admit you can't really understand.

So, I will do my best to help, do you '_a solid_;' as this whole debate kind of reminds me of something you once said in the *Monique*-thread about:



> "_...as we know through research *a little* social pressure can go a long way. next time they go somewhere with their child they might remember and decide to watch their child and even save that child's life in some unknown way because of it. and they will also know that calling fat or the threat to won't absolve them from their responsibility to that child.
> 
> fat people are always wanting others to stand up and do the right thing where they are concerned. we want the rest of society to say/do something when we are being bullied or a fat child is being bullied. it's time for us to remember that we are a part of that society too. we also have responsibilities to others. *if we walk away that makes it perfectly okay for other people to walk away from us when we need it.* so by your reasoning we should never expect anyone to be on our side because they might not want to bother with the fallout?_"


I'm all for a little social pressure in as much as that bit of touch leads someone in the right direction. Just as I'm perfectly fine with much more than just _social pressure_ when it's well-calibrated to the proportions of the situation, taking into some account what's at stake and who stands to get hurt the most. However, I think we also have to keep in mind that when people are being victimized or directly threatened, they're typically not in the best frame of mind to be making these kinds of nuanced judgments. And so it's often a more practical approach for just the average person, or really anyone, to first & always consider the option of just extricating themselves from these kinds of dynamics. (You know, like putting on your own oxygen mask before worrying about anyone else's)

And then, once you're clear on your own frame of mind, that you're fully prepared to be dealing with this at this particular moment; Okay, then _have at it_.

But, please, let's take our fat-selves out of this notion of having to fight every battle tooth & nail, right on the spot. The whole nobless oblige. For the young men in particular, I think it's a much, much more important and pragmatic and constructive and fundamental lesson, morally & socially, to become perfectly comfortable in walking away from situations, in general. After all, until you know, deep-down, that you can freely walk away, there's no real moral underpinning to whatever else it is you might do. Cause, at that point, you're just reacting. 

Otherwise, I generally don't worry so much about people walking away from me when I need them, as much as I don't want anyone getting in over their head on my account. Especially the people closest to me, the idea of their having to take a punch or bullet or get stabbed over some kind of drama, especially on my account, is not really worth it to me, my pride or ego. It doesn't really do anything for me, personally, nor do I think it’s fairly some kind of moral victory: 



> "_some people are bold. some people are not. that i can understand. *what i can't understand is not allowing folks to be bold* where others are not willing to be even when they know in their hearts they probably should. it's one thing to stand down yourself but something else altogether when people try to make the bold and willing stand down. i see a lot of abuse and neglect of children in my volunteer work. the one thing that makes it all possible is people saying and doing nothing._"



I think it has something to do with how the word _bold_ can often make for a ready euphemism for _stupid_ or _foolhardy_. In contrast with bravery or courage, on the other hand, which implies a full appreciation of the danger and nonetheless exploiting that insight to intervene upon it. And so, therefore, almost like a cop-out or excuse; saying, “At least I tried…At least I did some-thing…” It’s much more an expression of ego. 

Which, I think, for fat people, is particularly important. Both sides to this distinction. That is, it can be very constructive to assert one’s own ego, to live dangerously, take chances, be a little reckless, etc… By all means, ride that bull, poke that bear, jump off that cliff, etc…but, you know, be bold with your own life. Put your own life at stake. (After all, paradoxically, your life truly is the most valuable thing you have, and yet you can only give it away!) But not that of some bystander, much less a child or anyone else who didn’t sign-on for it, that practically can’t escape the ramifications of whatever it is you’re trying to do. And, in that, be fully conscious, conscientious, in what it is you’re doing and precisely why. 

Or, to come at it another way, if what you’re doing comes with certain risks for others, those who you’re really trying to help, give yourself enough of a pause to be more clear on if it’s really about them, what they want or need, or just you. Or if somewhere in-between, more precisely where. Try to meaningfully consider & weigh potential outcomes, just to the extent that you practically can ("_If this happens, then I can go this way; and if that happens, then I already know I what must or must not do…_"). And so, in that, be selfless in being bold, without fear or ego. And having anticipated (at least some of) the likely-possible consequences, be without regrets as well. So, not bold like Darren Wilson or Michael Brown. Or Michael Slager or Walter Scott. Or Janet Reno or David Koresh, if you will. Instead, be the bold of Socrates or Ahmad Batebi. Or Thich Quang Duc. Or Damian of Molokai (or Kaci Hickox). Or Susan Johanson. Or Malala. Or Lech Wa&#322;&#281;sa (or Karol Wojty&#322;a).

And so, confront people in ways that leverage their own morality & innate sense of decency, even if at the expense of their being humiliated or intimidated. Or wholly defeated.


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## danaley (Apr 26, 2015)

happily_married said:


> I debated posting this thread, but after nearly a week of mental deliberations have decided to share this story.
> 
> A few days ago my wife and I took our kids to a theme park near our home. We have season passes, and this was our first visit of many this year. It just happened to be Easter Sunday, and for the holiday they had some extra activities and a petting zoo.
> 
> ...



Gosh! Total crass! Its nice to know that you contained yourself in this situation. I myself couldn't. I have had people make asinine comments and it is very hard to stay silent. Cheers to you. Btw, I am glad you wife didn't hear this comment form such a low life individual.


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## superodalisque (Apr 26, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> Yeah, absolutely. Especially since they're dealing with these same issues day-in and day-out. Definitely worth at least saying something to someone in charge over there, all the way up until you get to where they're actually prepared to listen.
> 
> Yes, you can. As can we all, really; which you know best from having done it again and again.
> 
> ...


 

the reason I can address conflict without yelling is because I've actually done it. you won't learn by keeping quiet. people who note public prejudice regarding fat people have done way too much of the keeping quiet part which is why it is still so common. people need to be made uncomfortable in their BS. if you can't do that the BS will continue. for other issues you might be able to let something go because the world knows what the overall opinion is but for fat issues that is not he case. our human rights have not been recognized. so just claiming to support fat people in a favorable environment isn't enough. it needs to be done everywhere.

life is full of risks. you could get hit by a bus, have a traffic accident, get cancer have an embolism. you could be in an elementary school mall or a movie house and someone could shoot you with a high powered rifle because...we don't know. but the catastrophes on the news aren't most of real life. people leave their homes every day deal with people and never get shot at and don't carry a gun. it's not an excuse for giving bullies a free ride. in fact letting bullies go increases criminal activity because they keep pushing the envelope because those people are really looking for boundaries and usually help. that woman was out of control of her child and her mouth because she was out of control of her life. letting them go also means more potential victims will join the club because they feel it's better to be a bully than a victim. the schools know it. psychologists know it. why is it so hard for some other people to understand? you can say no to prejudice and even still be able to help the person but you have to be willing to be socially and emotionally engaged with your world. 

everything you do in life has unintended consequences anyway, even the non confrontational things like letting people go with foolishness. for all you know you might save a life by helping to gently curb someone's mouth and attitude. you might keep them from eventually getting hurt, you might influence them to watch their kid and save them from goodness knows what kind of reckless unforeseen mishap. you might keep their mouth from driving somebody to suicide, you might change the world. that is why we study things like ethics. since all of life is a risk we can't stop living. and if we are going to live and be at risk the least we can do for ourselves is to live or die on the side of what is right.

you're still assuming this has to be combative. you can confront and educate without necessarily making it into a battle. people need to practice and learn.


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## Surlysomething (Apr 26, 2015)

Good post.

Killing people with kindness as well. I've done all of this instead of not doing anything at all.




superodalisque said:


> the reason I can address conflict without yelling is because I've actually done it. you won't learn by keeping quiet. people who note public prejudice regarding fat people have done way too much of the keeping quiet part which is why it is still so common. people need to be made uncomfortable in their BS. if you can't do that the BS will continue. for other issues you might be able to let something go because the world knows what the overall opinion is but for fat issues that is not he case. our human rights have not been recognized. so just claiming to support fat people in a favorable environment isn't enough. it needs to be done everywhere.
> 
> life is full of risks. you could get hit by a bus, have a traffic accident, get cancer have an embolism. you could be in an elementary school mall or a movie house and someone could shoot you with a high powered rifle because...we don't know. but the catastrophes on the news aren't most of real life. people leave their homes every day deal with people and never get shot at and don't carry a gun. it's not an excuse for giving bullies a free ride. in fact letting bullies go increases criminal activity because they keep pushing the envelope because those people are really looking for boundaries and usually help. that woman was out of control of her child and her mouth because she was out of control of her life. letting them go also means more potential victims will join the club because they feel it's better to be a bully than a victim. the schools know it. psychologists know it. why is it so hard for some other people to understand? you can say no to prejudice and even still be able to help the person but you have to be willing to be socially and emotionally engaged with your world.
> 
> ...


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## lucca23v2 (Apr 26, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> Because there's a real point at issue that has probably affected each of us in one way or another. And so everyone's is taking a turn at validating their own experience, what they've figured out for themselves in the process.



Believe me, I understand this point completely, however if you are going to get upset over every negative comment ignorant people make, you will live your life angry and depressed. If you can clearly tell that the person is not going to change their mind, the best solution is to let it go. Making a spectacle of yourself fighting someone who is clearly being ignorant, or replying in the heat of the moment or out of embarrassment is not the time to have a debate over it 

I think people need to get a thicker skin. Fight the battles worth fighting and leave the rest where they belong, in the gutter.


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## landshark (Apr 26, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> *the reason I can address conflict without yelling is because I've actually done it.* you won't learn by keeping quiet. people who note public prejudice regarding fat people have done way too much of the keeping quiet part which is why it is still so common. people need to be made uncomfortable in their BS. if you can't do that the BS will continue. for other issues you might be able to let something go because the world knows what the overall opinion is but for fat issues that is not he case. our human rights have not been recognized. so just claiming to support fat people in a favorable environment isn't enough. it needs to be done everywhere.



Nobody is advocating addressing conflict by yelling. I've not seen such a suggestion on this thread, and I certainly would not have approached the situation that way had I responded. I think it's fair to note also that sometimes it doesn't matter how polite and professional you are in addressing someone. Sometimes people are going to blow up on you regardless of how level headed you are with them. I've experienced this. So it's worth asking: is it worth the trouble? Do I argue with an idiot? My answer is no. Only in the most egregious of circumstances will I bother with that. 



superodalisque said:


> life is full of risks. you could get hit by a bus, have a traffic accident, get cancer have an embolism. you could be in an elementary school mall or a movie house and someone could shoot you with a high powered rifle because...we don't know. but the catastrophes on the news aren't most of real life. people leave their homes every day deal with people and never get shot at and don't carry a gun. it's not an excuse for giving bullies a free ride. in fact letting bullies go increases criminal activity because they keep pushing the envelope because those people are really looking for boundaries and usually help. that woman was out of control of her child and her mouth because she was out of control of her life. letting them go also means more potential victims will join the club because they feel it's better to be a bully than a victim. the schools know it. psychologists know it. *why is it so hard for some other people to understand? *you can say no to prejudice and even still be able to help the person but you have to be willing to be socially and emotionally engaged with your world.



It's not. You assume it's hard because you are thinking in absolutes. But to a lot of people real life is not always an "either/or" proposition between only two possible outcomes. Some people have a much more dynamic thought process than that. If you're limited to "either/or" that's on you. It would do you well to at least recognize the fact that not everyone thinks the way you do.



superodalisque said:


> you're still assuming this has to be combative. you can confront and educate without necessarily making it into a battle. people need to practice and learn.



I agree, but see above. Some people are looking for contact. That's why they say provocative things in the first place. If you respond to every little slight and insult I am willing to bet you, like your friend Surly, have likely made quite a spectacle of yourself in public once or twice. I'm sure you were the subject of many a "how to not respond to offense" discussions between parents and their kids or groups of friends. Of course, I'll never know. But neither will you.


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## superodalisque (Apr 26, 2015)

happily_married said:


> Nobody is advocating addressing conflict by yelling. I've not seen such a suggestion on this thread, and I certainly would not have approached the situation that way had I responded. I think it's fair to note also that sometimes it doesn't matter how polite and professional you are in addressing someone. Sometimes people are going to blow up on you regardless of how level headed you are with them. I've experienced this. So it's worth asking: is it worth the trouble? Do I argue with an idiot? My answer is no. Only in the most egregious of circumstances will I bother with that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
i haven't had anybody go off in public at me yet. maybe because i'm not loud or obnoxious or hateful. i don't yell and name call. if it does happen i should be fine though. I've never been afraid to speak my mind because my father and mother raised me that way. i'm glad i'm not afraid of other people. being afraid sucks. I also wasn't raised to think that calling out or being called out was the end of everybody's world. but I sure was raised that turning a blind eye was.


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## landshark (Apr 26, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> i haven't had anybody go off in public at me yet. maybe because i'm not loud or obnoxious or hateful. i don't yell and name call. if it does happen i should be fine though. I've never been afraid to speak my mind because my father and mother raised me that way. i'm glad i'm not afraid of other people. being afraid sucks.



I'm glad you never have had anyone go high and to the right on you. I have, even with a tactful approach. When it affects just me, fine. When it affects someone close to me it's a little more complex. 

Agee reading many of your posts here and on other threads, I have a couple questions for you. The first is a yes or no. Are you aware that your way of thinking or viewing the world is not universal? That is, that there are others who think differently than you do. Second, (also a yes or no) does the fact that others may not conform to your brand of thinking disturb you? Lastly, is the answer to the last question was "yes" then why does it disturb you? If "no" why are you so dismissive about someone else's point of view?


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## superodalisque (Apr 26, 2015)

happily_married said:


> I'm glad you never have had anyone go high and to the right on you. I have, even with a tactful approach. When it affects just me, fine. When it affects someone close to me it's a little more complex.
> 
> Agee reading many of your posts here and on other threads, I have a couple questions for you. The first is a yes or no. Are you aware that your way of thinking or viewing the world is not universal? That is, that there are others who think differently than you do. Second, (also a yes or no) does the fact that others may not conform to your brand of thinking disturb you? Lastly, is the answer to the last question was "yes" then why does it disturb you? If "no" why are you so dismissive about someone else's point of view?


 
I don't mind if you don't agree with me. but i'm refusing to agree with you or even to pretend that I find your approach possibly right and I think that bothers you a lot. but that's your problem and not mine. 

if I find something is not right IMO and all of my experience says it isn't there is nothing that says I must entertain your way of thinking. people say black people are inferior. they have their reasons that might seem rational to them. do I have to entertain them. no I don't.


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## superodalisque (Apr 27, 2015)

_*http://www.mentalhealthsupport.co.uk/AdultBullying.html*_

_*Confront the bully.*_ You can do this yourself if you feel able; your trusted person or witness can do it on your behalf; you can hire a solicitor; you can go to the police or other authority. _The important point here is to expose the bully and call him or her to account. Confrontation and exposure, with evidence to support a victim’s accusations, are what the bully tries hardest to avoid. Once exposure happens, the bullying is likely to stop._


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## landshark (Apr 27, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> I don't mind if you don't agree with me. but i'm refusing to agree with you or even to pretend that I find your approach possibly right and I think that bothers you a lot. but that's your problem and not mine.



I actually don't have a problem with you disagreeing or not pretending or however you like to describe it. You've made this claim a couple times now and I've challenged you to directly support it, a challenge you have conspicuously declined. Yet you still continue making an unfounded and unsupportable claim. Since you refuse to even consider the fact that your way of thinking is not universally right and continue to assault my position on this subject because I have the audacity to not see the world the way you do, I will give continued support to my position. I've certainly not ruled out the merits of some elements of your position, I just take a more case by case approach because I'm too smart to react to every little slight or offense I witness. 

Regarding your post about bullying, this is not about bullying. All bullying is ignorance, but not all ignorance is bullying. For example with the exception of the below quote, I don't consider your inputs to this thread bullying but without question a display of ignorance.



superodalisque said:


> lol people sure do whine a lot when the don't get their way don't they


 
Now this comment I believe could be considered bullying. It is pretty low, even for you. It would be one thing if I actually were whining, but I was not and am not. This is what I would expect out of a petulant child who has been bested in an argument and very much reinforces my comment about you needing to act like a grown woman.


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## Surlysomething (Apr 27, 2015)

Walk away, girl. He's too busy making it about his right to feel the way he does than about the actual event We don't need to cite sources or include a flipping bibliography with our posts. That's a Deliman move. 

Just more deflection.

So you either stick up for people when they're being wronged, or you don't.




HM:
NO ONE IS SAYING YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR OPINION, we just don't agree with it. That's what a forum is for. Good old fashion debate.



superodalisque said:


> _*http://www.mentalhealthsupport.co.uk/AdultBullying.html*_
> 
> _*Confront the bully.*_ You can do this yourself if you feel able; your trusted person or witness can do it on your behalf; you can hire a solicitor; you can go to the police or other authority. _The important point here is to expose the bully and call him or her to account. Confrontation and exposure, with evidence to support a victim’s accusations, are what the bully tries hardest to avoid. Once exposure happens, the bullying is likely to stop._


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## landshark (Apr 27, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> Walk away, girl. He's too busy making it about his right to feel the way he does than about the actual event We don't need to cite sources or include a flipping bibliography with our posts. That's a Deliman move.
> 
> Just more deflection.
> 
> ...


 
Part of debate is respecting opinions you disagree with, something neither you nor SuperO have done. Another is supporting your claims, something else you both have neglected to do, despite being challenged to do so several times. 

Best wishes to you both in your "my way or the highway" lives. I choose a life I free thought and intellectual exchange of ideas over grown women acting like children when someone disagrees with them. &#128077;


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## Surlysomething (Apr 27, 2015)

You don't respect MY opinion. Haha.
You may say you do but give me a break. 

I don't take 'challenges' like that either. This isn't school. This isn't important to my daily life. 

As far as acting like a child, hardly. How about you actually act like a man and stand up for someone putting down your wife? How about that? 

Keep living in the vanilla world. I'll be over here with all the colour.




happily_married said:


> Part of debate is respecting opinions you disagree with, something neither you nor SuperO have done. Another is supporting your claims, something else you both have neglected to do, despite being challenged to do so several times.
> 
> Best wishes to you both in your "my way or the highway" lives. I choose a life I free thought and intellectual exchange of ideas over grown women acting like children when someone disagrees with them. &#128077;


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## GoodDaySir (Apr 27, 2015)

Its hilarious how much insight you have on a situation that you were not a part of. And now to be so fucking nasty. Grow up.


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## landshark (Apr 27, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> You don't respect MY opinion. Haha.
> You may say you do but give me a break.
> 
> I don't take 'challenges' like that either. This isn't school. This isn't important to my daily life.
> ...



You'll notice there are others who disagree with me on this very thread and I've had no problem with their opinions. The reason I don't respect your opinion or SuperO's is that you've both demonstrated you're unworthy of respect through your lack of respect for others. 

You may not "take challenges" but words are cheap. If you can't own what you say but are willing to say it anyway you're not worth listening to. It's not a "school" thing to support your claims, it's a "life" thing. 

Protecting my wife the way I see fit over the way you see for is another life thing. Not being bothered by every example of stupidity I see or read is another. Not reacting to every little slight or offense is another, still. 

It comes down to this: disagree with me but show me the respect I deserve as a fellow human being until I show I am unworthy of it. As I recall, you joined this thread not to discuss the topic but to make drama over why I mentioned my wife was losing weight. Only under the cover of someone else's objection toy approach did you summon the courage to actually discuss the topic. 

Your credibility is &#128169;. I'll continue to support my position. If you are uneasy with a free man having a mind of his own, you may want to stay away from this forum and others like it.


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## Surlysomething (Apr 27, 2015)

Let it go, buddy. Haha




happily_married said:


> You'll notice there are others who disagree with me on this very thread and I've had no problem with their opinions. The reason I don't respect your opinion or SuperO's is that you've both demonstrated you're unworthy of respect through your lack of respect for others.
> 
> You may not "take challenges" but words are cheap. If you can't own what you say but are willing to say it anyway you're not worth listening to. It's not a "school" thing to support your claims, it's a "life" thing.
> 
> ...


----------



## landshark (Apr 27, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> Let it go, buddy. Haha



NOW you want me to let it go? Isn't the fact that I let it go why you're so vehemently opposed to me? 

I do believe the conversation has run it's course, though. You can continue to comment of you feel so inclined. I may even read what you say. But I'll respond only to intelligent dialogue on this thread from here forward. If previous posts are an indicator that most likely rules you out.


----------



## GoodDaySir (Apr 27, 2015)

happily_married said:


> NOW you want me to let it go? Isn't the fact that I let it go why you're so vehemently opposed to me?
> 
> I do believe the conversation has run it's course, though. You can continue to comment of you feel so inclined. I may even read what you say. But I'll respond only to intelligent dialogue on this thread from here forward. If previous posts are an indicator that most likely rules you out.



lol Surly gonna need some aloe?


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## Surlysomething (Apr 27, 2015)

You seriously think that's a burn on me? Haha. As if.

You've been on the site for 5 minutes, you don't have a clue.






GoodDaySir said:


> lol Surly gonna need some aloe?


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## GoodDaySir (Apr 27, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> You seriously think that's a burn on me? Haha. As if.
> 
> You've been on the site for 5 minutes, you don't have a clue.



5 minutes + like 10 years, so...


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## landshark (Apr 27, 2015)

I was re-reading this thread and came across this comment again:



cinnamitch said:


> I try to imagine if that would have been one of my loved ones (S/O, child,parent, etc..), I would have probably spoken up. That's just me. I won't tolerate someone dissing someone I care about. What if your wife had been called something even worse? Would you have stepped up then? Not being an ass, Just curious as to what the acceptance level for derogatory comments to your wife?



And my reply:



happily_married said:


> I think it's a game changer if my wife heard the comment. In that scenario the main reason for me not reacting would be instantly mitigated and I am not sure I would have taken the high road. For that matter, my wife may have been the one to react had she heard the comment.



After reading this I realized I didn't actually answer the question asked; I answered what would I have done if my wife had heard the comment. So I'll take another stab at this question.

It's hard to say what the acceptance level is for a derogatory comment. I'm not sure what the threshold is, and I'm not sure there is a fixed threshold. Every situation is different, which is why I believe you can't just approach each situation ready to react to anything you hear that you don't like. I think I have a pretty solid sense of judgment and will recognize when it is okay to respond to a derogatory comment and when the best response is to ignore it, like the incident that started this thread.

When I was in high school I had problems with a few guys who didn't like me due to race. Throughout my freshman and the first part of my sophomore year I endured repeated harassment, shoulder checking in the hallway, etc... I talked to my dad about this extensively. He had a very high threshold set for us to be able to punch back, and the shoulder checking and walking away saying, "What, white boy, what are you going to do about it?" didn't meet that threshold. One day midway through my sophomore year, I was walking off the campus and one of these guys, in an effort to impress two girls he was walking with, walked alongside me in my face taunting me. I ignored it for a few feet until he actually threw a punch and blasted me upside the head. That was the green light I had waited for for the past 18 months. I punched back, channelling a year and a half's worth of frustration into that first punch, catching him in the mouth and literally tearing his braces off (slicing my my hand, too). He stumbled back and I tackled him, slammed him into the ground and held his face under the surface of a muddy puddle until I was satisfied. The following day he and 4 others jumped me on the campus right as school started, but fortunately two teachers broke that melee up before it really got under way. Following that encounter there were a few more instances of harassment, but it was just verbal. Not a one laid a hand on me after that.

Leading up to that incident, I had tried numerous ways to deal with these guys. Polite interaction, using the school's (laughably pathetic) conflict resolution method, asking why they had a problem with me, etc. Nothing worked. So I did my best to ignore stupidity until it reached the threshold I'd been given by my dad to react forcefully.

I tell this story because as I think about what my threshold for confronting someone over a comment about my wife, I maintain it's very high. What I learned from my dad, was that even physical contact was not tantamount to starting a fight. Applying that reasoning to words rather than hostile physical contact and I am led to believe the standard must remain high. Not because some ignorant fool deserves it but because I and those I care about do. If nobody holds themselves to a higher standard we'll have a society filled with "trigger happy" nut jobs looking for a reason to take offense to something said, heard, or read. No amount of polite conversation will work with some people. And obviously I am not going to go to blows over something stupid someone says. I've reached the conclusion that I really don't know. I'm certainly not going to sit around and borrow trouble from the future, thinking of examples and how I would react to them. And to a great extent, my reaction is shaped by that person's right to be an ignorant fuck. In the U.S. the First Amendment protects objectionable speech, so it is certainly a person's right to be offensive if they so choose. (Too bad some people don't see the correlation between freedom and responsibility, but I've withdrawn from discussion politics and social issues because of the unyielding hyperbole belched out by both sides.) 

My threshold? Who knows. Let the situation dictate. I'll post an update to this thread if such a situation ever transpires.


----------



## Xyantha Reborn (Apr 27, 2015)

This seems to have gone a little far... Happily married posted a little note about an experience, not a question or need for validation  after stating that he was in conflict about posting it at all. And now I can see why he would have hesitated.

In the subsequent posts, he has basically been accused of cowardice. 
His manliness/ability to protect his wife was questioned.
Parallels were drawn between his behaviour and racists / bystander apathy.
He was told not to complain is his wife was abused in future.
It was intimated he was responsible for abetting animal cruelty because a child held an animal wrong and the zookeepers did not notice.

...It was just a caught breath, and a muttered insult at a petting zoo. That's it. 

I understand people have strong opinions, but this level of intensity seems a little beyond the pale, considering...


----------



## landshark (Apr 28, 2015)

Xyantha Reborn said:


> This seems to have gone a little far... Happily married posted a little note about an experience, not a question or need for validation &#8211; after stating that he was in conflict about posting it at all. And now I can see why he would have hesitated.
> 
> In the subsequent posts, he has basically been accused of cowardice.
> His manliness/ability to protect his wife was questioned.
> ...



I think you just have to consider the source. I'm not worried about it at all, really. People can accuse me of cowardice or question my manliness all they want. Words are cheap and you'll notice the people who made those cheap shots refused to substantiate them. (Besides, I hardly consider two 50 something BWs to be any kind of credible authority on manliness. Like I said: consider the source.)

What I think is interesting is that I brought this topic up as an example of how it is still socially acceptable to berate people over weight. I turned into a debate over when to speak up and when to let something go. That's still a legitimate discussion. And there were a few people who voiced their opinions (differing from mine) but did not try to impose their values on those who advocated remaining silent. And then we had those who do feel comfortable with imposing their values on others. It's fine to have a discussion, but blindness to another's point of view is just plain ignorance. And as such it isn't much different from the lady whose comment triggered this thread. Now there's an ironic twist!


----------



## Surlysomething (Apr 28, 2015)

Nope. I'm not going there. 

Retract.

Haha



But, i'm not even close to 50-something! That was mean.


----------



## Surlysomething (Apr 28, 2015)

You're really into BBW women? Really? Why can't a 50-something "BBW" woman be an authority on manliness? 

I think you're the one with the BBW "hangup". That's the point i've been trying to make the whole time.




happily_married said:


> (Besides, I hardly consider two 50 something BWs to be any kind of credible authority on manliness. Like I said: consider the source.)


----------



## Surlysomething (Apr 28, 2015)

That's funny. Your join date says April 2015.
People don't care about lurkers opinions, by the way.

You really need to figure out when you actually burn someone or just make them roll their eyes.






GoodDaySir said:


> 5 minutes + like 10 years, so...


----------



## Marlayna (Apr 28, 2015)

I would like to know what size backside the lady with the bratty kid had. Maybe her husband refers to her as "Fatass", and she needs to call someone else that in a way to act out her frustrations.
Now, if she was skinny, and used the "fatass" comment, then you should've yanked her by the hair to the ground, and make her apologize for the insult!

Just joking - this thread is badly in need of some comedy relief.


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## landshark (Apr 28, 2015)

^ she was soft, but not "fat." I deliberately tried to avoid describing her and her husband because I may get a little judgmental myself and I'm trying to avoid that!


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## GoodDaySir (Apr 28, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> That's funny. Your join date says April 2015.
> People don't care about lurkers opinions, by the way.
> 
> You really need to figure out when you actually burn someone or just make them roll their eyes.



lol i was hardly a lurker. I know your nasty ways quite well. You're just always itching to beat someone down.


----------



## Surlysomething (Apr 28, 2015)

Hahahaha.


So you're someone that shouldn't be talking to me at all. Riiiiight.

It's cool, you've been reported numerous times already. 




GoodDaySir said:


> lol i was hardly a lurker. I know your nasty
> ways quite well. You're just always itching to beat someone down.


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## superodalisque (Apr 29, 2015)

GoodDaySir said:


> lol i was hardly a lurker. I know your nasty ways quite well. You're just always itching to beat someone down.


 
turn about is fair play. some people aren't going to just lay down and take it while it's done to them. since when has your language been all butterflies and posies?


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## superodalisque (Apr 29, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> I would like to know what size backside the lady with the bratty kid had. Maybe her husband refers to her as "Fatass", and she needs to call someone else that in a way to act out her frustrations.
> Now, if she was skinny, and used the "fatass" comment, then you should've yanked her by the hair to the ground, and make her apologize for the insult!
> 
> Just joking - this thread is badly in need of some comedy relief.


 

more than likely that is exactly where it came from.


----------



## AndSoItGoes (May 7, 2015)

happily_married said:


> Having some discernment is better than going in gunz-a-blazin' over every little offense or perceived offense.


 
If this was a little offense or a perceived offense, why start a thread about it ? I'm just confused. All fat people know about these kinds of jerky people.


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## landshark (May 7, 2015)

AndSoItGoes said:


> If this was a little offense or a perceived offense, why start a thread about it ? I'm just confused. All fat people know about these kinds of jerky people.



I'm not sure where is the point of confusion. I'm just sharing some thoughts, which is what people do on forums such as this one. Sharing thoughts and generating some discussion on how to respond to such an incident. Obviously there won't be consensus on what the right way is, but sharing ideas is always a worthwhile exercise.


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## Yakatori (May 7, 2015)

AndSoItGoes said:


> "_If this was a little offense or a perceived offense, *why start a thread about it ? * I'm just confused. *All fat people know about these kinds of jerky people.*_"



If this kind of experience is something universal to all or most fat people, wouldn't that tend to support its relevance?


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## AndSoItGoes (May 7, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> If this kind of experience is something universal to all or most fat people, wouldn't that tend to support its relevance?


 
The OP was dismissive of actual fat people who want more folks speaking up. First he said it was this horrible thing, but after the fat women responded how they did, he then said it was basically nothing. That is why I was confused. That dismissiveness made me wonder if he wanted to be absolved of something, like fat people will gather him to them, or he liked that his wife still had a " fatass " even while losing weight. The OP might need to study himself. The point is kind of a mystery.


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## Yakatori (May 7, 2015)

This is was the original post (edited for relevance to your points, emphasis mine):



happily_married said:


> ...after nearly a week of mental deliberations have decided to share this story.
> 
> A few days ago...theme park... Easter Sunday...petting zoo.
> 
> ...



Okay, so far, nothing too dismissive in that until:



superodalisque said:


> ...I don't agree with silence. *silence is agreement* in the minds of many. it's wrong to abuse animals. it's wrong to abuse people for being fat. *people who know better need to stand up*.
> 
> 
> _" In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers, we are not simply protecting their trivial old age, we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations. "_ — The Gulag Archipelago _ Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn_


To which he replies by way of explanation:



happily_married said:


> ^ discretion is the better part of valor. I pick my fights and refuse to die on every hill. I believe nothing good would have come from responding to this woman. Some people are just in it to get a rise out of others, and I won't give them that satisfaction. Some people just don't have enough intellect to make them worth engaging.


**and**​


happily_married said:


> ^ *I see your points and respect your point of view. * But as I said to Surly, they're YOUR points based on how YOU view the world around you which is by no means universal. *I don't *necessarily *think you're wrong. But neither am I, or those who agree with me. I think *there's a time and place to take a stand and the incident described in the initial post of this thread was not one of them.


I dunno, is that what you mean by dismissive?



AndSoItGoes said:


> ...dismissiveness made me wonder if he wanted to be absolved of something, like fat people will gather him to them...


You can't fairly characterize his response as dismissive outside of the context of his being called a _punk_ or, more basically, that they are dismissing him, his concerns, his experience.

So, basically, he's relating this experience, feeling a certain way. Asking if others have experienced something similar or can relate. And (some) others are, more or less, are responding with, "_No, we reject this. You are not one of us, you are one of *THEM!* You are *ostracized*_.


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## AndSoItGoes (May 7, 2015)

Ostracized is a ridiculous word to use here. I think the slender man will be just fine. Fat people can go on enjoying these stories about how upset someone is, until they are not, and give only the words wanted from the outset. " You can't fairly characterize... ". Yes, yes I can. Save your fingers.


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## Yakatori (May 7, 2015)

I'm thinking of, like, a stoner/college type of comedy. Sort of like _White Chicks_ or _PCU_ or something like that where, I want to say, a main character goes through something like a fraternity-hazing type of ritual where he's literally _ostracized_, using little rocks or marbles or something like that. And the evil characters are wearing those traditional Greek tragedy/comedy masks.


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## AndSoItGoes (May 8, 2015)

Imaginations are great.


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## superodalisque (May 8, 2015)

the point is unless one actually does something or is trying to figure out what to do to change things the experience is useless to fat people.


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## Yakatori (May 8, 2015)

AndSoItGoes said:


> "_Imaginations are great_."


No this is a real movie I'm thinking of. Maybe _Van Wilde_r? One of that series/franchise. Are you at all familiar with it?



superodalisque said:


> "_the point is unless one actually does something or is trying to figure out what to do to change things the experience is useless to fat people._"


I think everyone is always trying to figure things out to a certain extent, on a certain level. Even as much as they're not always totally or explicitly conscious of it.


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## landshark (May 8, 2015)

AndSoItGoes said:


> The OP was dismissive of actual fat people who want more folks speaking up.



Disagreement with someone is not the same thing as being dismissive of them.



AndSoItGoes said:


> First he said it was this horrible thing, but after the fat women responded how they did, he then said it was basically nothing.



Quote me. Don't paraphrase, quote me. You can't because if you did you'd know the above quoted sentence is not an accurate description of how I've handled both the situation and this conversation. A more accurate description would be "OP said it was a horrible thing...but that it was not worth responding to." I hope that helps.



AndSoItGoes said:


> That is why I was confused. That dismissiveness made me wonder if he wanted to be absolved of something, like fat people will gather him to them, or he liked that his wife still had a " fatass " even while losing weight. The OP might need to study himself. The point is kind of a mystery.



Again, it's only confusing if you actually believe disagreement is the same as dismissiveness. That does seem like a fairly limited way to view a discussion, but others on this thread have held it too, so you won't be the first.


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## superodalisque (May 10, 2015)

AndSoItGoes said:


> Ostracized is a ridiculous word to use here. I think the slender man will be just fine. Fat people can go on enjoying these stories about how upset someone is, until they are not, and give only the words wanted from the outset. " You can't fairly characterize... ". Yes, yes I can. Save your fingers.


 
I agree with you. there is a segment here that enjoys posting about negativity that fat people or their supposed admirers that in their minds should or can do nothing about. I think there are a lot of people who get off on fat misery not fat victory. they get off on depressed hopeless crying shrinking fat people. if you support people and encourage them to speak up for what is right for each other or themselves it doesn't fit the fantasy. the agenda isn't to change the world for you as a fat person or to make it any better. it's to pig wallow in what negativity there already is.


----------



## Yakatori (May 10, 2015)

Saw this the other day, reminded me of some of the issues going back and forth in here:View attachment Patton Oswalt.jpg​


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## superodalisque (May 11, 2015)

if not then people need to think about what they are doing or saying but I would not put it past anyone. I've seen too much and been around the community too long not to know hoodwinking when I see it as have others. people play ignorant a lot but they aren't as stupid as they pretend.


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## landshark (May 11, 2015)

^ Pretty good quote, Yakatori. Part of good overcoming evil is not being dragged down to its level. Sometimes the situation dictates a response, other times it does not. Being smart enough to see the difference makes a difference.


----------



## liz (di-va) (May 11, 2015)

happily_married said:


> The boy's mother happened to be standing next to me and muttered, "Worry about your own kids, fatass!"



I had a woman scream something very similar at me as she jaywalked across the street with her kids in front of a parking lot exit I was driving my car out of. Screamed to 'watch where I was going, fatass' -- with this real hate in her voice and face.

People act very badly when they feel fearful and guilty. Lash out. Reach for their own close-to-the-surface prejudices.


----------



## superodalisque (May 11, 2015)

most definitely. i remember being about to go into a store and a little boy whose mother wasn't paying attention ran toward the street and i caught him by the arm before he got into traffic. "i said be careful !" i know they can get away from you" because it scared the bejesus out of me. and she said "****** mind your own damned business i know how to take care of my kid.". i was shocked to say the least. i lived in a very white conservative upper class but very friendly and family oriented area at the time. before i could open my mouth the other women around me were all over her for calling me a name and not watching her son. that's how villages work and should work. do i think she was just scared. yes. do i think she was also a racist. yes. will she think twice before she does any of that again. my bet is yes.


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## landshark (May 11, 2015)

liz (di-va) said:


> I had a woman scream something very similar at me as she jaywalked across the street with her kids in front of a parking lot exit I was driving my car out of. Screamed to 'watch where I was going, fatass' -- with this real hate in her voice and face.
> 
> People act very badly when they feel fearful and guilty. Lash out. Reach for their own close-to-the-surface prejudices.



You are right, people lash out when they lack a sense of personal responsibility. If they had such a sense they wouldn't react the way they do but would recognize fault where it exists. 

Dare I ask, how did you react to this woman?


----------



## liz (di-va) (May 11, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> before i could open my mouth the other women around me were all over her for calling me a name and not watching her son.



I'm sorry to say I can totally picture someone doing that, ungh, how awful. You are lucky other people were around to see the interaction and call her out on it. 



happily_married said:


> Dare I ask, how did you react to this woman?



There was no way to react -- I was in my car and her kids should not have been in the street, so I never would have stopped and put us both in further physical danger.

But I felt like I had been slapped and as I drove home had that flush of angry impotent upset that you do in those situations. If I had been in a position to respond I would have weighed my options and quite probably said something. The nasty fact that people say this shit in front of their KIDS complicates things.

- - - - - - 

I'm not sure what the fight in this thread is about, but there aren't absolutes in these situations IMHO. Not respecting that feels like you aren't respecting fat people as people, period.

- Do I need to know about every awful thing someone says about me behind my back on principle? No, because I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning. But if I need to know it for self-protection I should be told and I'll be mad if I'm not.

- Do I want allies to have my back? Hell yes, all day, every day, they aren't allies otherwise.

- Am I allowed to fight back to bigots and say what needs to be said? Yes and I do.

- Does that look different occasionally depending on the circumstances? Of course.


----------



## landshark (May 11, 2015)

^ the fight in this thread is about the right way to react to someone's stupidity. Unfortunately some feel their way of responding is superior to everyone else's and are unwilling or unable to consider a point of view other than their own.

You raise some salient questions, though. But like you asked in your first question, do you need to know every little insult? And if the answer is no, do you consider a friend to be getting your back if they remain silent in order to spare you an insult coming to your attention? 

And finally your last question sums up what I've maintained throughout the discussion. Each incident is different and calls for a different response. Of course we have the right to confront people. If done so at times. But with rights comes responsibility. Sometimes walking away silently is just the responsible thing to do.


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## swordchick (May 11, 2015)

Some people think that they are speaking under their breath. But I usually hear them. I have no problem with confrontation. I am really tough. Others aren't. I have seen people crying over harsh comments made by others. So if my confrontation can possibly prevent another incident, I am happy with that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## superodalisque (May 12, 2015)

swordchick said:


> Some people think that they are speaking under their breath. But I usually hear them. I have no problem with confrontation. I am really tough. Others aren't. I have seen people crying over harsh comments made by others. So if my confrontation can possibly prevent another incident, I am happy with that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 
me too. I know saying nothing changes nothing. I could not live with that. it wasn't how I was raised and it is not who I am personally. so it's hard for me to understand how or why someone else would stand by for abuse. especially when there are things you can do that don't involve arguments, like going to mention it to a security guard. it has to be confronted some kind of way. abusing animals and verbal attacks are not okay.

#sittingonyourhandswhileotherpeopledoevilwontmakeitgoaway


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## landshark (May 12, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> ...it's hard for me to understand how or why someone else would stand by for abuse...



Translation: "I do it/see it this way and can't understand how or why someone else would have an opinion/way of doing things/reacting to things/viewing the world any other way."

I encourage you to open your mind. You do not have a universally right outlook on life, no matter how much you think you do.


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## superodalisque (May 12, 2015)

happily_married said:


> Translation: "I do it/see it this way and can't understand how or why someone else would have an opinion/way of doing things/reacting to things/viewing the world any other way."
> 
> I encourage you to open your mind. You do not have a universally right outlook on life, no matter how much you think you do.


 
sorry but I won't open my mind to tolerating fat victimization. it won't happen. I won't support tolerating it either. i'm not afraid to say nope nope nope.

i'm not the yelling type but somebody will definitely get corrected.


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## landshark (May 13, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> sorry but I won't open my mind to tolerating fat victimization. it won't happen. I won't support tolerating it either. i'm not afraid to say nope nope nope.
> 
> i'm not the yelling type but somebody will definitely get corrected.



Translation: "I'm SuperO. How dare anyone disagree with me."

That's okay, you be you. The rest of us will be ourselves, painful a reality as that may be for you. I'm able to think critically and can recognize there is no universally right answer to a situation like the one I experienced. I definitely don't need someone of lesser intellect telling me how to think. 

You are officially dismissed.


----------



## cinnamitch (May 13, 2015)

happily_married said:


> Translation: "I'm SuperO. How dare anyone disagree with me."
> 
> That's okay, you be you. The rest of us will be ourselves, painful a reality as that may be for you. I'm able to think critically and can recognize there is no universally right answer to a situation like the one I experienced. I definitely don't need someone of lesser intellect telling me how to think.
> 
> You are officially dismissed.



Lesser intellect? :doh:


----------



## landshark (May 13, 2015)

cinnamitch said:


> Lesser intellect? :doh:



Yes. Lesser intellect. Sounds judgmental, I realize but it's based on her own words. It's easy to simply consider one's POV and no others. That takes absolutely zero intellect and critical thought. To be able to step back and see that you way of thinking is not necessarily universally right is a little more difficult. To be unable to unwilling to do this is indeed a symptom of lesser intellect. It was a fair statement and I will stand by it.


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## cinnamitch (May 13, 2015)

happily_married said:


> Yes. Lesser intellect. Sounds judgmental, I realize but it's based on her own words. It's easy to simply consider one's POV and no others. That takes absolutely zero intellect and critical thought. To be able to step back and see that you way of thinking is not necessarily universally right is a little more difficult. To be unable to unwilling to do this is indeed a symptom of lesser intellect. It was a fair statement and I will stand by it.



Well good for you. :blink:


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## swordchick (May 13, 2015)

superodalisque and cinnamitch, worry about your own fatass! 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## superodalisque (May 14, 2015)

swordchick said:


> superodalisque and cinnamitch, worry about your own fatass!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 
exactly. which is why I don't take it. and people who don't get it can take their skinny asses on.


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## superodalisque (May 14, 2015)

happily_married said:


> Translation: "I'm SuperO. How dare anyone disagree with me."
> 
> That's okay, you be you. The rest of us will be ourselves, painful a reality as that may be for you. I'm able to think critically and can recognize there is no universally right answer to a situation like the one I experienced. I definitely don't need someone of lesser intellect telling me how to think.
> 
> You are officially dismissed.


 
you can mischaracterize anything any way you like. I don't mind you being you but sorry i'm not agreeing or dissembling just to make you feel good about it. too bad you can't take that.


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## swordchick (May 15, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> exactly. which is why I don't take it. and people who don't get it can take their skinny asses on.




Well, you saw how I was in Vegas. I wasn't even loud. But they were loud and rude. I love my friends and family too much to allow a bunch of haters to ruin their day or even my day. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## lucca23v2 (May 15, 2015)

6 pages later and the debate goes on. For those who like confrontation, by all means go out and fight every comment. 

Speaking as a SSBBW, who has had comments thrown at me "under others breath" if I am going to get bothered by every little stupid comment someone makes about my weight, then I might as well not leave my house. You just can't be that sensitive in life.

For those that confront every little thing, Do you ever think that making a big deal out of every comment can do more damage than help? It can appear to people that BBWS/SSBBW/BHMS as a whole are very sensitive and therefore not worth the effort in making a relationship/friendship with someone who so obviously needs so much attention and care? ie: high maintenance.... IJS

On a side note, I heard a great comeback to someone who made a comment about a big person. Someone wanted to sit on the train (I will call him Mr. A) and tried to squeeze into a seat, the bigger (Mrs. B) person said, you can't sit you don't fit. Mr. A then said, if you were like every other ordinary person I would fit. To which Mrs. B responded, Thank God I am an extraordinary person and don't have to conform to those rules. You have to find somewhere else to sit.

I just about died laughing in the train.


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## bigmac (May 15, 2015)

lucca23v2 said:


> ...
> 
> For those that confront every little things, Do you ever think that making a big deal out of every comment can do more damage than help? It can appear to people that BBWS/SSBBW/BHMS as a whole are very sensitive and therefore not worth the effort in making a relationship/friendship with someone who so obviously needs so much attention and care? ie: high maintenance.... IJS
> 
> ...



Excellent point! Not every battle is worth fighting. Quite often when someone is being a jerk its totally obvious and there is no need to point it out. People of goodwill know who the ass is and confronting the ass is not likely to change his/her behavior.

Also, it has to be remembered that many people are less than articulate and will grab onto the most obvious noun or adjective when angry. My wife is a CPS social worker -- when she was a SSBBW she was called a "fat bitch" on an almost daily basis by people whose children had been removed. Now that she's smaller her clients have to resort to "fucking bitch.".


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## Surlysomething (May 15, 2015)

There will NEVER be a time where I let a comment about my body slide. It's just who I am. You dish it out, you're going to get some back. I also do it on behalf of all the women that wish they had the courage to say something but can't. A lot of the people that spew these insults never hear a reply because people are hurt and shamed by what they've been called. Then they meet me and they learn that some people don't take bullshit from *anyone*. I have no problem whatsoever taking these people on. It doesn't make me look bad at all. I've actually had people apologize profusely for their comments after i've said something. 

Every person is going to deal with these situations the way they see fit and that's fine. I won't be a victim of harassment. 

I have a very strong personality though which isn't very welcomed by a lot of people. Haha

Suck it up! 





bigmac said:


> Excellent point! Not every battle is worth fighting. Quite often when someone is being a jerk its totally obvious and there is no need to point it out. People of goodwill know who the ass is and confronting the ass is not likely to change his/her behavior.
> 
> Also, it has to be remembered that many people are less than articulate and will grab onto the most obvious noun or adjective when angry. My wife is a CPS social worker -- when she was a SSBBW she was called a "fat bitch" on an almost daily basis by people whose children had been removed. Now that she's smaller her clients have to resort to "fucking bitch.".


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## superodalisque (May 15, 2015)

swordchick said:


> Well, you saw how I was in Vegas. I wasn't even loud. But they were loud and rude. I love my friends and family too much to allow a bunch of haters to ruin their day or even my day.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 
yep exactly. you have influenced me for the better  I adore you!


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## superodalisque (May 15, 2015)

Surlysomething said:


> There will NEVER be a time where I let a comment about my body slide. It's just who I am. You dish it out, you're going to get some back. I also do it on behalf of all the women that wish they had the courage to say something but can't. A lot of the people that spew these insults never hear a reply because people are hurt and shamed by what they've been called. Then they meet me and they learn that some people don't take bullshit from *anyone*. I have no problem whatsoever taking these people on. It doesn't make me look bad at all. I've actually had people apologize profusely for their comments after i've said something.
> 
> Every person is going to deal with these situations the way they see fit and that's fine. I won't be a victim of harassment.
> 
> ...


 
yep i'm not afraid of them either. I think even the look I give people stops them before they start. they know i'm not a victim and they can't get away with it with me. and that is why you don't have to raise your voice or even speak sometimes. because the force of your character and your certainty that you deserve respect in this world will cut a whole lot of it off at the root.


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## landshark (May 16, 2015)

swordchick said:


> Well, you saw how I was in Vegas. I wasn't even loud. But they were loud and rude. *I love my friends and family too much to allow a bunch of haters to ruin their day or even my day.*
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



Exactly, which is why I let it go without a response. It didn't ruin my wife's day because she didn't find out about it. It didn't ruin my day because it didn't escalate. Do you agree that sometimes there are multiple ways to achieve the same endstate? 

@ Lucca and BigMac: Good posts. BigMac, you're right. When dealing with a mental midget you're going to get the low hanging fruit. I believe this has been brought up on this thread already, the difference between "fat bitch" and "fucking bitch." I think it's important to know who you're dealing with and sometimes decide it isn't worth dealing with them.

@ Surly: Welcome back!


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## bigmac (May 16, 2015)

happily_married said:


> ... the difference between "fat bitch" and "fucking bitch." I think it's important to know who you're dealing with and sometimes decide it isn't worth dealing with them.
> 
> ...



And lots of time its just not worth dealing with. Angry and/or stupid people say unpleasant things. When I was assigned to domestic violence court in Fresno my clients used to call the deputy district attorney "skinny bitch" all the time. No one got bent out of shape about it. At the end of the day, the admittedly very skinny, DA was going home to her family and nice home. My clients were often going to spend at least a few days in custody (indeed the ones who spouted off like this were almost always prison bound).


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## Surlysomething (May 16, 2015)

I just couldn't help myself. Haha





happily_married said:


> .
> 
> @ Surly: Welcome back!


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## superodalisque (May 16, 2015)

happily_married said:


> Exactly, which is why I let it go without a response. It didn't ruin my wife's day because she didn't find out about it. It didn't ruin my day because it didn't escalate. Do you agree that sometimes there are multiple ways to achieve the same endstate?
> 
> @ Lucca and BigMac: Good posts. BigMac, you're right. When dealing with a mental midget you're going to get the low hanging fruit. I believe this has been brought up on this thread already, the difference between "fat bitch" and "fucking bitch." I think it's important to know who you're dealing with and sometimes decide it isn't worth dealing with them.
> 
> @ Surly: Welcome back!


 
you are absolutely clueless as to the instance swordchick is talking about because you weren't there. it was totally the opposite of anything you did. heck you didn't even talk to a security guard.

of course it's not worth talking about --for you. you aren't a fat man_ or_ fat woman dealing with that mess, or a woman period. neither you or Bigmac are. you are "fit" and he's just pudgy, nothing that much above normal. nobody would look at his size twice on the street. so naturally it wouldn't matter to either of you. who cares what kind of life your wife has even if she isn't fat when you are out of eyesight and don't have to deal with the conflict right?


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## landshark (May 16, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> you are absolutely clueless as to the instance swordchick is talking about because you weren't there. it was totally the opposite of anything you did. heck you didn't even talk to a security guard.



I understand she was speaking of a specific incident, but the bolded part of her statement can and does apply to the big picture and that's the level I'm discussing. 

Besides, if I'm not qualified to comment based on the fact I wasn't there, then using your own logic, does that not render you unqualified to weigh in on my incident? Perhaps using your own stated pattern of logic you'll be kind enough to withdraw from the remainder of this conversation due your being clueless about the incident I spoke of in the initial post? 



superodalisque said:


> of course it's not worth talking about --for you. you aren't a fat man_ or_ fat woman dealing with that mess, or a woman period. neither you or Bigmac are. you are "fit" and he's just pudgy, nothing that much above normal. nobody would look at his size twice on the street. so naturally it wouldn't matter to either of you. who cares what kind of life your wife has even if she isn't fat when you are out of eyesight and don't have to deal with the conflict right?



This sounds like size discrimination on your part, which is contrary to the values espoused by Dims. I've long suspected you weren't so different from the woman I described in the initial post of this thread. You've consistently confirmed my suspicions. 

This should be it for you. As I stated above, if you have a shred of integrity and consistency you'll acknowledge you are unqualified to further discuss this topic (again: using your own stated words) and withdraw with whatever credibility you are able to salvage.


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## superodalisque (May 16, 2015)

happily_married said:


> I understand she was speaking of a specific incident, but the bolded part of her statement can and does apply to the big picture and that's the level I'm discussing.
> 
> Besides, if I'm not qualified to comment based on the fact I wasn't there, then using your own logic, does that not render you unqualified to weigh in on my incident? Perhaps using your own stated pattern of logic you'll be kind enough to withdraw from the remainder of this conversation due your being clueless about the incident I spoke of in the initial post?
> 
> ...


 
wow. really ?

when swordchick was in vegas with us she spoke up very loudly and certainly. it has nothing to do with standing there and being quiet like you did. I didn't even see exactly what the person had done but she shut it down before it got out of hand. when I turned around she was finishing up telling her off and she looked_ very_ shut down and quiet. it was obvious swordchick had done what she intended to do and then i told her to watch it because we wanted her to stay with us for the rest if the trip and not get put out of the hotel. she certainly didn't let it go and i never would have asked her to. she kept someone from ruining our day alright. she would never let anyone go with trying to victimize any of her friends. 

um so you and Bigmac _are _a fat woman then? and you understand all of our needs and experiences better than we do ourselves right? actual fat people aren't competent to know what their own experiences are. hmmm that doesn't sound very SA or FA somehow. 

okay see where that gets you lol


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## Xyantha Reborn (May 16, 2015)

No - but as the husband of his wife who is familar with her personality, wants and needs he IS the most qualified to judge and act on an incident that involved them both, without reference to any of us here. (Except for her)!

And if she was the type of woman that some seem to want her to be, she would probably rip into half us of for daring to speak to her husband that way, and to have the presumption and audacity to think that any of us, being strangers, have the right to judge what she needs simply because they buy the same clothing bracket size as she does...


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## landshark (May 16, 2015)

Xyantha Reborn said:


> No - but as the husband of his wife who is familar with her personality, wants and needs he IS the most qualified to judge and act on an incident that involved them both, without reference to any of us here. (Except for her)!



That's just it. Swordchick said something about loving family/friends too much to let someone ruin their day. That's EXACTLY what I did. By letting it go I didn't let it ruin my wife's day. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for people to understand. I can appreciate disagreement to the extent one can say, "To each his own; that's not what I would have done." But to the extent some here have taken it isn't disagreement, it's pure ignorance. Nobody here has the one and only universally right answer. Every situation is different. Where two situations are identical, individuals approaching them are different, so the dynamic is different. It is impossible to fully understand each other's differences, but being able to recognize they exist and that one's own way of thinking is not definitive makes for a more enlightened human experience.


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## superodalisque (May 16, 2015)

okay help maintain people's entitlement to voicing fat prejudice and also let animal abuse happen in front of you even if you could give the word to a security guard before you leave.

otherwise, never complain when society denigrates fat people that it's unfair or mean or pretend to be any kind of activist.


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## lucca23v2 (May 17, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> you are absolutely clueless as to the instance swordchick is talking about because you weren't there. it was totally the opposite of anything you did. heck you didn't even talk to a security guard.
> 
> of course it's not worth talking about --for you. you aren't a fat man_ or_ fat woman dealing with that mess, or a woman period. neither you or Bigmac are. you are "fit" and he's just pudgy, nothing that much above normal. nobody would look at his size twice on the street. so naturally it wouldn't matter to either of you. who cares what kind of life your wife has even if she isn't fat when you are out of eyesight and don't have to deal with the conflict right?



Just out of curiosity, where do I weight (pun intended) in on this topic? I mean it was my post they were both responding to. I am not a bbw.. *I am an SSBBW.* I am quite capable of confrontation and do so when needed as evident in some of my posts. I feel the same way they do, *you have to pick and choose your battles.* If you are going to let every comment ignorant people make effect you, this very forum wouldn't exist. Not everything needs to be a battle. There are things to fight and there are things you have to ignore. When someone is obviously saying something to piss you off, let it go.


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## swordchick (May 17, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> yep exactly. you have influenced me for the better  I adore you!



I adore you, too! 



happily_married said:


> Exactly, which is why I let it go without a response. It didn't ruin my wife's day because she didn't find out about it. It didn't ruin my day because it didn't escalate. Do you agree that sometimes there are multiple ways to achieve the same endstate?




Of course! You had children with you. The women should have been reported to security. I would be surprised if her kid didn't do other things around the park that was destructive.

Also, there were hundreds of fat people in attendance in Vegas so that is why I said something to those people. They could've got kick out of the hotel. Or they could've got beat up by someone else. Sometimes, I am very nice to people. I use humor at times. There are times that I say nothing and give people that look. I don't mind getting angry and doing the right thing. 







Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## superodalisque (May 17, 2015)

lucca23v2 said:


> Just out of curiosity, where do I weight (pun intended) in on this topic? I mean it was my post they were both responding to. I am not a bbw.. *I am an SSBBW.* I am quite capable of confrontation and do so when needed as evident in some of my posts. I feel the same way they do, *you have to pick and choose your battles.* If you are going to let every comment ignorant people make effect you, this very forum wouldn't exist. Not everything needs to be a battle. There are things to fight and there are things you have to ignore. When someone is obviously saying something to piss you off, let it go.


 
honestly, I couldn't take your post that seriously. I mean, if you think it's realistic or even a good idea for supersized women to walk around on concrete floors in high heels and be waitresses for sub minimum wage there isn't much else I wouldn't put by you. I didn't expect much realism or practicality.


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## landshark (May 17, 2015)

swordchick said:


> Of course! You had children with you. The women should have been reported to security. I would be surprised if her kid didn't do other things around the park that was destructive.
> 
> Also, there were hundreds of fat people in attendance in Vegas so that is why I said something to those people. They could've got kick out of the hotel. Or they could've got beat up by someone else. Sometimes, I am very nice to people. I use humor at times. There are times that I say nothing and give people that look. I don't mind getting angry and doing the right thing.



It sounds to me like you're willing to let the situation dictate or at least influence the appropriate response. If this is the case we are not too far apart on this issue. There have been times I've responded to comments and other times I have not. For the life of me I can't really define why some situations are different than others, but in the moment it just feels right to speak up sometimes, and others let it go.




superodalisque said:


> honestly, I couldn't take your post that seriously. I mean, if you think it's realistic or even a good idea for supersized women to walk around on concrete floors in high heels and be waitresses for sub minimum wage there isn't much else I wouldn't put by you. I didn't expect much realism or practicality.



Translation: If you disagree with me I'll find a reason to be dismissive of your posts. 

Bigmac is not a BBW/BHM and neither am I, so we're not qualified to speak. But Lucca is a self identified SSBBW and you can't dismiss her for the same reason you dismiss us so you've got to find something else, in her case her job. And you'll find a reason to dismiss everyone else who disagrees with you too, for whatever reason you can find. Race. Religion. Sexual orientation...whatever it takes. 

There's just no good reason why someone should disagree with SuperO, right?


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## lucca23v2 (May 17, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> honestly, I couldn't take your post that seriously. I mean, if you think it's realistic or even a good idea for supersized women to walk around on concrete floors in high heels and be waitresses for sub minimum wage there isn't much else I wouldn't put by you. I didn't expect much realism or practicality.



lol... because I posed a question if hooters would be as successful if BBWs worked there? 

Oh and thanks for answering my question. By the way.. the personal attack.. classy..

As for my stand on ignoring ignorant comments, let me just say...

Oh look.. a more interesting post...


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## superodalisque (May 18, 2015)

lucca23v2 said:


> lol... because I posed a question if hooters would be as successful if BBWs worked there?
> 
> Oh and thanks for answering my question. By the way.. the personal attack.. classy..
> 
> ...


 

not because you posed the question but you actually acted like the idea were practical on the thread among other issues, like feeling it's okay to be prejudice toward someone because they date black people. so no I have nothing to say to you. I wouldn't IRL and I don't here either. have fun. enjoy yourself but i'm not entertaining that.


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## tonynyc (May 18, 2015)

This thread is filled with plenty of amusing stuff .... street altercations can either turn out to be nothing or very ugly... 

As the Op mentioned earlier you pick your battles.... 

1. If one starts to confront a woman with her child nearby- who knows what the results will be.... 

2. Some people are just nasty bastards and you look at them the "wrong" way f- the exchange of words (they might respond with a weapon)... 

The following video is a result of a recent altercation at a NYC Dallas BBQ ... The argument initially started as an exchange of words-but, this cowardly Bigot decides to end the argument in an extremely violent manner......

Video Bigot attacking Gay Couple at Dallas BBQ in NYC


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## tonynyc (May 18, 2015)

lucca23v2 said:


> Just out of curiosity, where do I weight (pun intended) in on this topic? I mean it was my post they were both responding to. I am not a bbw.. *I am an SSBBW.* I am quite capable of confrontation and do so when needed as evident in some of my posts. I feel the same way they do, *you have to pick and choose your battles.* If you are going to let every comment ignorant people make effect you, this very forum wouldn't exist. Not everything needs to be a battle. There are things to fight and there are things you have to ignore. When someone is obviously saying something to piss you off, let it go.


 

*Very true - it's called being street smart and common sense *


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## superodalisque (May 18, 2015)

confronting a prejudice doesn't mean you have to go on the attack. confrontation might mean doing_ something_ about the situation, like making a security guard aware. animals were being abused. great starting point right there.


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## AndSoItGoes (May 18, 2015)

Isn't the whole thing about picking and choosing your battles kind of up to the individual ? Much more is being said when those words come out.

I think I will give the OP what he was looking for, but couldn't just straight out ask.

You were correct in creating a thread to tell the world about yet another slight against a fat woman and how you bravely chose your battle- or something like that.


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## GoodDaySir (May 18, 2015)

AndSoItGoes said:


> Isn't the whole thing about picking and choosing your battles kind of up to the individual ? Much more is being said when those words come out.
> 
> I think I will give the OP what he was looking for, but couldn't just straight out ask.
> 
> You were correct in creating a thread to tell the world about yet another slight against a fat woman and how you bravely chose your battle- or something like that.




What do you mean, his wife? She didnt hear anything. Which is why he didnt say anything. Im not sure why people are finding that so difficult to accept.


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## lucca23v2 (May 18, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> not because you posed the question but you actually acted like the idea were practical on the thread among other issues, *like feeling it's okay to be prejudice toward someone because they date black people.* so no I have nothing to say to you. I wouldn't IRL and I don't here either. have fun. enjoy yourself but i'm not entertaining that.


 
*Just for the record and to clear up any misconceptions in your convoluted thinking, I have never stated it was ok to be prejudice toward someone because they dated black people. I said everyone has a choice to like and date whomever they wanted. I myself have dated black men. That would be me being prejudice against myself.* You are assuming things about people because they don't share your views or thoughts. Maybe instead of putting people down because they don't think like you, you might want to go see a therapist about why you feel the need to do that.

With that I am done with this tennis game you seem to like so much. Sorry all for the thread being derailed. We can now go back to the regularly schedule programming.


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## swordchick (May 18, 2015)

Superodalisque gave another option of informing security. I am sure that was the last thing happily_married was thinking of after seeing a child abuse a rabbit and hearing someone insult his wife. But this incident still bothers him. His wife did not deserve any of this. 

During Vegas incident, superodalisque stopped me from going further with these people. I was in their faces. They were too scared to move. But that is exactly how many fat women and men feel, too scared to leave their homes because of bullies like them. It is not something that you just get over. I've always been very social. So I get comments from rude people. There are a few incidents where I've been silent. Some people just need to be shut down immediately.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Yakatori (May 18, 2015)

happily_married said:


> "_....For the life of me I can't really define why some situations are different than others, but in the moment it just feels right to speak up sometimes, and others let it go._"


There's always some basis, immediate & practical, to everything we do. That's reinforcing it.

So, even when we're not feeling too conflicted over something, that it just seems perfect-enough, it can be constructive to examine it a bit further. Bouncing things off of other people is one way to do that; however, ultimately, it's about you. That is, what is the trade-off for you, personally.

When you have a firmer idea of that; then, I think, it will seem more clear _the-why_ of whichever particular approach is just right right vis-a-vis you, your wife, & the whole situation.



swordchick said:


> "_Some people just need to be shut down immediately._"


I think that's what Obama is talking about when he refers to _a teachable moment_...


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## AndSoItGoes (May 18, 2015)

GoodDaySir said:


> What do you mean, his wife? She didnt hear anything. Which is why he didnt say anything. Im not sure why people are finding that so difficult to accept.


 
You missed the part where I was giving him what he was looking for when he started this thread. It has morphed - mmmmm, morphing - into a parade for different people take different action or non-action, which is just a little odd since the OP already had in mind what they wanted from other posters. I wanted to give him the pat on the back.

Thank you for your wondering.


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## GoodDaySir (May 18, 2015)

AndSoItGoes said:


> You missed the part where I was giving him what he was looking for when he started this thread. It has morphed - mmmmm, morphing - into a parade for different people take different action or non-action, which is just a little odd since the OP already had in mind what they wanted from other posters. I wanted to give him the pat on the back.
> 
> Thank you for your wondering.



I think you're off. And incredibly patronizing. He wasn't looking for anything. He didnt ask for opinions on whether what he did was "the right thing" or not. He didnt ask to be shat on by some of the crazy people here. He simply said this was his experience and it was something he needed to get off his chest to a group of people he (mistakenly) thought would be supportive.e


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## landshark (May 18, 2015)

GoodDaySir said:


> I think you're off. And incredibly patronizing. He wasn't looking for anything. He didnt ask for opinions on whether what he did was "the right thing" or not. He didnt ask to be shat on by some of the crazy people here. *He simply said this was his experience and it was something he needed to get off his chest to a group of people he (mistakenly) thought would be supportive.e*



More or less, yes. I just shared a thought. As far as expecting people to be supportive, I'm not sure I actually did. I expect people to disagree with me and that someone would think I didn't necessarily react the right way. I think the lack of respect some have shown is the only disappointment. And really I should have expected that, too. Dims is as good an internet forum as there is, but it's still an internet forum and as such, it's inevitable that some people are going to be rude, ignorant and/or generally lack respect for others.

With that said, there has been a lot of positive discussion as well. Not all the dissent on this thread has been disrespectful and there has been some good ideas thrown back and forth. So it hasn't been a total loss.


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## GoodDaySir (May 18, 2015)

You can still be supportive while disagreeing with someone. Some people are jut fucking rude.


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## superodalisque (May 18, 2015)

AndSoItGoes said:


> Isn't the whole thing about picking and choosing your battles kind of up to the individual ? Much more is being said when those words come out.
> 
> I think I will give the OP what he was looking for, but couldn't just straight out ask.
> 
> You were correct in creating a thread to tell the world about yet another slight against a fat woman and how you bravely chose your battle- or something like that.


 
you've got it. 

how it's okay to chose the battle of leaving people hanging out there in ways that encourage other people and even them, if they notice, that they aren't worth the trouble.


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## superodalisque (May 18, 2015)

GoodDaySir said:


> You can still be supportive while disagreeing with someone. Some people are jut fucking rude.


 
lol isn't it interesting how that happens lol


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## landshark (May 19, 2015)

GoodDaySir said:


> You can still be supportive while disagreeing with someone...



One would think, right?


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## AndSoItGoes (May 19, 2015)

GoodDaySir said:


> I think you're off. And incredibly patronizing. He wasn't looking for anything. He didnt ask for opinions on whether what he did was "the right thing" or not. He didnt ask to be shat on by some of the crazy people here. He simply said this was his experience and it was something he needed to get off his chest to a group of people he (mistakenly) thought would be supportive.e



I never said I was a good little fat woman. I don't support him.


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## GoodDaySir (May 19, 2015)

AndSoItGoes said:


> I never said I was a good little fat woman. I don't support him.



wrf are you saying "good little fat woman". How about a friend? A fellow poster? Goddamn there are some real fucking winners on this board.


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## GoodDaySir (May 19, 2015)

AndSoItGoes said:


> I never said I was a good little fat woman. I don't support him.



wrf are you saying "good little fat woman". How about a friend? A fellow poster? Goddamn there are some real fucking winners on this board.


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## AndSoItGoes (May 19, 2015)

GoodDaySir said:


> wrf are you saying "good little fat woman". How about a friend? A fellow poster? Goddamn there are some real fucking winners on this board.


 
We're not friends. We are two random people on a message forum. I am someone who obviously disagrees with you and with some of what the OP has said. The OP did thank those who reassured him. A few other fat women had other things to say. We all can't have your charm.


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## landshark (May 19, 2015)

GoodDaySir said:


> wrf are you saying "good little fat woman". How about a friend? A fellow poster? Goddamn there are some real fucking winners on this board.


 
Don't stress about it. I'm not. It would be nice if people could be decent to each other but this is the internet where people can be everything they wish they were in real life. I appreciate all perspectives voiced here, but just disagreeing isn't enough for some people. When people have to be nasty or make assumptions that equate to non-starters it's better just to chalk it up to forum bravado and walk away because you're never going to convince them to see any POV but their own.


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## AndSoItGoes (May 19, 2015)

It's not mean and nasty to understand that while this one person started the thread about an individual experience, the big picture is not one of individuals. That is very important to remember, otherwise it is an exercise in navel gazing and simply wanting " support ". While every person's mileage varies, not every fat woman feels like she has the luxury of ignoring that larger picture. If the OP's wife is on this site, I would feel the same ( perhaps she had already read this ) no matter how she felt. I would say the same in real life to the OP. That's not a sword drawn, for those overly dramatic readers out there.


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## lucca23v2 (May 19, 2015)

GoodDaySir said:


> wrf are you saying "good little fat woman". How about a friend? A fellow poster? Goddamn there are some real fucking winners on this board.



Yes, there are some that are way below the awesome line..many are on the "I just want to stir the shit" side of things, but such is life. 

There are however many, many awesome people on these boards. In the year I have been around I have noticed that there are more good people that certainly out weight (no pun intended) the bad people on the boards. BHM/FFA forum is a good one. They always have some fun topics going on in there. One of my favorite boards. 

Just remember if need be there is an ignore function.


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## superodalisque (May 20, 2015)

AndSoItGoes said:


> It's not mean and nasty to understand that while this one person started the thread about an individual experience, the big picture is not one of individuals. That is very important to remember, otherwise it is an exercise in navel gazing and simply wanting " support ". While every person's mileage varies, not every fat woman feels like she has the luxury of ignoring that larger picture. If the OP's wife is on this site, I would feel the same ( perhaps she had already read this ) no matter how she felt. I would say the same in real life to the OP. That's not a sword drawn, for those overly dramatic readers out there.


 
the ops wife is thin and diets and doesn't identify with being fat. I support her because she has her own body identity and she owns it. she doesn't have to be like me for me to respect her body autonomy. 

the op is always posting stuff about how fat people should basically take BS and basing it on something that happened to his wife. his wife doesn't like being called fat, so suddenly neither should any of us. then he is shocked when fat people looking for otherwise don't want a thin agenda shoved down their throats. 

but I've seen it before and so have a lot of other people. we know what's up. there is a lot to be gained on a fat site telling fat women exactly how unhappy your wife is with being fat and how she's dieting and getting thinner when you yourself like a fat body right 

I hope there aren't people dumb enough to fall for it. 
it is tiresome seeing stuff posted that looks exactly like the uneducated media posts about fat people about how understandable it is that we don't like being fat. god help us if we actually call ourselves fat and see nothing wrong with it. and my goodness, we certainly should not have a sense of ourselves so that we can ourselves and actually feel we're worth it when other people also call out those who verbally abuse us.


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## AndSoItGoes (May 20, 2015)

The OP said that while he can't relate as a fat person, he can relate as someone who desires fat women. These two things are not at all alike. Someone who likes fat people, unless they too are fat, feels some frustration and won't have as many people high-fiving them, but it is miles away from actual prejudice and emotional harm.


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## swordchick (May 20, 2015)

My friend went to dinner with her children last night. This man and his son, who were sitting at a table across from them, criticized her body for their entire meal. She didn't say anything to them because she had to tend her children. One of her male friends offered to go to the restaurant and handle the situation. But she was so sad and felt helpless. She was being emotionally abused by strangers. I had to let her know that there is nothing wrong with her body and they needed to eat their nachos and mind their own business. Situations like this is the main reason why I do confront these bullies. She is one of the sweetest people I know. She didn't deserve any of that.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## GoodDaySir (May 20, 2015)

There's no point in responding to callous bitches.


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## cinnamitch (May 20, 2015)

GoodDaySir said:


> There's no point in responding to callous bitches.



Then stop doing it if you think they're callous. Also learn to participate like an adult and stop using profanity to insult someone.


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## GoodDaySir (May 20, 2015)

cinnamitch said:


> Then stop doing it if you think they're callous. Also learn to participate like an adult and stop using profanity to insult someone.



Participate like an adult? Adults dont fucking jump on one damn person and belittle him and his wife, when his experiences and actions dont match their own. This whole thread is full of people who need to learn to act like adults. You aren't an exception either.


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## bigmac (May 20, 2015)

AndSoItGoes said:


> Isn't the whole thing about picking and choosing your battles kind of up to the individual ? Much more is being said when those words come out.
> 
> ... .




Yes! Starting a confrontation over a petty slight often escalates things. This is not what the involved fat person always wants.

There seem to be a cultural issues involved. Women who grew up in a culture where acts of disrespect are taken more seriously are more likely to want their men to defend their honor. Its a long standing thing -- historically duels over issues of honor were more common among some groups -- less common in others.


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## cinnamitch (May 20, 2015)

GoodDaySir said:


> Participate like an adult? Adults dont fucking jump on one damn person and belittle him and his wife, when his experiences and actions dont match their own. This whole thread is full of people who need to learn to act like adults. You aren't an exception either.



People giving their opinions about the subject and how THEY would feel in the situation he described does not constitute jumping on a person. I myself don't agree with his decision in the slightest, but to me it's a waste of time to try to get someone to see it from another perspective. Seriously, stop relying on cursing to come off as a champion of the "stop picking on FA" movement. It's getting laughable.


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## landshark (May 20, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> the op is always posting stuff about how fat people should basically take BS and basing it on something that happened to his wife. his wife doesn't like being called fat, so suddenly neither should any of us. then he is shocked when fat people looking for otherwise don't want a thin agenda shoved down their throats.



I am? That's news to me. Perhaps you'd be kind enough to back up your claim? I doubt you will, because you've elected not to do so with many other cheap claim you've made. I doubt this one will be any different. 



> but I've seen it before and so have a lot of other people. we know what's up. there is a lot to be gained on a fat site telling fat women exactly how unhappy your wife is with being fat and how she's dieting and getting thinner when you yourself like a fat body right


 
I don't like fat or thin. I like my wife. I liked her at her heaviest and I like her at her current (which still isn't thin) and I'll like her when she reaches her goal weight. I know you need a reason to dislike me, but please, let's not resort to this level of intellectual dishonesty. It's unbecoming, even for you.


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## landshark (May 20, 2015)

swordchick said:


> My friend went to dinner with her children last night. This man and his son, who were sitting at a table across from them, criticized her body for their entire meal. She didn't say anything to them because she had to tend her children. One of her male friends offered to go to the restaurant and handle the situation. But she was so sad and felt helpless. She was being emotionally abused by strangers. I had to let her know that there is nothing wrong with her body and they needed to eat their nachos and mind their own business. Situations like this is the main reason why I do confront these bullies. She is one of the sweetest people I know. She didn't deserve any of that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



I think it's a major game changer when the target of the insults hears the comments. I've mused about how I may have reacted had my wife heard the comment. For that matter she may have reacted. Then again, my wife sometimes is able to walk away too, so it's almost pointless to guess how differently the situation would have developed had she heard the comment.


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## lucca23v2 (May 20, 2015)

swordchick said:


> My friend went to dinner with her children last night. This man and his son, who were sitting at a table across from them, criticized her body for their entire meal. She didn't say anything to them because she had to tend her children. One of her male friends offered to go to the restaurant and handle the situation. But she was so sad and felt helpless. She was being emotionally abused by strangers. I had to let her know that there is nothing wrong with her body and they needed to eat their nachos and mind their own business. Situations like this is the main reason why I do confront these bullies. She is one of the sweetest people I know. She didn't deserve any of that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 
This is a different kind of situation because SHE heard it. She should have defended herself, or at the very least had more self esteem to sit proud in who she is, because who we are is not our weight or body shape. That is just the shell we come in. Would I have said anything to him, probably not, but it would not have effected me because I love who I am. I love myself fat, I love myself when I am thinner, I love myself even when I am at my worst. Why? Because if I don't love myself, then everything others say will effect me. When people are that effected by what others say about them, most of the time it is because people are hitting a sore spot.. they are hitting on something we hate about ourselves.

In the OPs case his wife did not hear. So why make her life miserable over something she didn't hear. Personally, in the OPs situation I would have walked away much as he did. 

Base on what I have read from the OP I make 2 *assumptions*:

1. If his wife would have heard it, and he noticed she was uncomfortable, he would have said something. (Of course assuming his wife would need defending, because I would assume if angry enough she would have defended herself.)

2. If he had a chance later in the day to catch the lady when she was alone and could not cause a scene and embarrass herself, her kids, and his wife, he would have said something to her then.

*DO NOT ASSUME* that because people walk away from others talking shit about fat people that they are weak or are encouraging others to bully and talk shit. That person is just choosing a different way, other than direct confrontation, of handling things based on the situation at hand. 

Sometimes you have to be the Balm to sooth the affliction and sometimes you have to be the scalpel to cut out the infection. The trick is to know when to be which.


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## AndSoItGoes (May 21, 2015)

bigmac said:


> Yes! Starting a confrontation over a petty slight often escalates things. This is not what the involved fat person always wants.


 
I was referring to those who came down with this when a few fat women said they don't accept silence. It is the cousin to the attitude that if you speak out against one thing, you really shouldn't, because there are always worse things happening on the planet.


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## AndSoItGoes (May 21, 2015)

GoodDaySir said:


> There's no point in responding to callous bitches.


 
Connie Francis wrote your theme song ~ Where The Boys Are.


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