# School Issue



## blue_eyes (Oct 11, 2010)

If you have been in chat lately you might know of this already.

This past semester I started attending a local college to finish up my Bachelors degree. On the first day of class I get there and realize that 3 of my classes (MWF classes) have nothing but desks. Desks that even thin people looked cramped in so I knew it was not going to work for me. 

I went home and called my mom and cried. I told a friend about it and he found the school's disability office and told me to call them. I did. I was told they would get me a table/chair put into the rooms asap. I showed up on Wednesday and there was no table/chair there. I continued to call every day for the next three weeks leaving messages with assistants and voicemail messages for this person. Nothing happened.

One night I went into chat and was talking about it and Ginny was sweet enough to start some trouble on their facebook page. It got some attention and the guy did try to help but in the end he told me that he was told they didn't have to help me.

This is the message I got on FB.

_Angela, I have spoken with Ms. Robertson, and I just wanted to pass along to you what she said to me. I am just the messenger, so don't shoot me!

Basically, she said that the issue you are dealing with is not one in which an accommodation is required to be given. She said that even though that is the case, that her office has been trying to get the Building Services department to place a desk into the rooms that you could use. Obviously, that hasn't happened.

She told me she was going to speak to Stephanie again, and she is going to call Building Services again.

All I can tell you is that I am very sorry this has happened to you. I don't have any solutions for you, and you are basically at the mercy of Building Services and Ms. Robertson's office.

I honestly hope that you give UTM another chance to serve you. UTM is full of helpful, kind people who really do want you to succeed. Good luck Angela._

So basically because I am fat they don't have to do anything to accommodate me in class. 

As of today it is 7 weeks of class I have missed. I don't know what else to do. 

Does anyone know what I need to do? I have talked to everyone I can think of (except the school president).


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## SuperSizedAngie (Oct 11, 2010)

I have this exact same problem. My school has a similar policy, except theirs says specifically that they can only accommodate me if I have a medically certified disability. I have no primary care physician (I'm a student, and have no money to afford one), and the school's doctors in the health center are not allowed to consider doing the paperwork necessary for disability certification because it's "beyond the scope of their duties at the health center." 

In addition, let me say what I've explained to the Students with Disabilities office at my school. I AM NOT DISABLED. My mom's doctor (who I have previously seen a few times many years ago) even refused to write a letter for me because there is nothing about my being fat that adversely affects my ability to perform necessary functions. Yes, I'm well over 400lbs. Yes, I'm too fat to fit in your small desks. But I am NOT disabled. I can walk a mile without hurting myself or getting too tired. I have none of the medical comorbidities that make obesity a "disability." The only real way it affects my life is that I can't fit in desks, I get picked on more often, and I shop at specialty stores for my clothes. 

This problem is a matter of physics, not a matter of medical disability for me. 

One woman at the Students with Disabilities office even had the audacity to suggest I buy a folding chair from the campus store next door. I went over there with my camera and took pictures so that I could show her that the biggest ones they had were only certified for 250lbs. 

I hate to say it, but for the past few years the solution has been to find classrooms with extra "long tables" that the teachers use, make sure I'm there well ahead of class time, and physically move that to the classroom I'm in. Same goes for chairs. I return them when I'm done. Sometimes this has meant moving heavy furniture literally from one side of the building to another every day, but if the school won't do right by me, then I'm damn well going to figure out how to solve the problem myself. ALSO, you've tried going all the way to the top...... but have you tried going all the way to the bottom?? Ask the janitors.... they know where allllllllllll the extra tables and chairs are. If you're friendly and explain the problem to them, they can show you where to get what you need. 




Recently, I've also acquired a wheel chair that someone threw out because it was very old. On days when I know that I won't be able to find a chair to kidnap, I fold it up, carry it to the bus stop, drag it to class and sit in it.


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## thirtiesgirl (Oct 11, 2010)

Ugh. I'm so sorry your school is not being more accommodating. I would talk to the school president. Let him or her know that you're going to have to ask for your money back if they don't accommodate you. That ought to get his or her attention. Schools don't like to lose money.

Every other summer, I'll take classes at my local community college to further my education and help raise my salary at work (the more post-graduate education I get, the more money I make). Like Angie wrote, I've sometimes had to do the same thing in some of my classrooms - find a bigger table with a chair separated from the table (not attached to it, like most student desks are) where I can sit. I've been fortunate in that I don't have to go so far as to borrow a table and chair from another classroom, but I can't sit in those student desks either, so I know where you're coming from.

Another option might be to see if you can find a university that does online courses and finish your bacherlors that way. I know many people who do online courses, rather than sit in a classroom for 2 hours after work or during their off time, and they much prefer it.


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## FatAndProud (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah, I agree with thirtiesgirl. You should opt for as many online classes as possible. 

I, too, understand where you're coming from about the desks. I am SO sorry to hear that your uni isn't being supportive. That is disgusting. I'd definitely talk to janitors (I always make friends with janitors and anyone that frequents the buildings I attend because they are your eyes/ears on the inside and they are just damn awesome). 

If the janitors can't help you, I suggest you contact the Dean and say that you will not tolerate being occluded from classes because of their failure to accomodate you. If the Dean doesn't listen...well, I would make a big fuss and gather as many people as I could that agreed with me and we'd rally and set effigies on fire  I'm sure all of us at DIMs could do something, as well, mass e-mail folks and what not.


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## BigBeautifulMe (Oct 11, 2010)

blue_eyes said:


> If you have been in chat lately you might know of this already.
> 
> This past semester I started attending a local college to finish up my Bachelors degree. On the first day of class I get there and realize that 3 of my classes (MWF classes) have nothing but desks. Desks that even thin people looked cramped in so I knew it was not going to work for me.
> 
> ...



Angie, you know I've already suggested a million things, but here's one more.

I talked to a well-known fat activist and as a last resort she suggested contacting a prominent fat activism lawyer. I have her contact information, if you want it, if you'll send me a PM. I really don't think you would have any kind of case, but even just a letter from an attorney hinting at a lawsuit that might bring them some negative publicity might light a fire under them.


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## lucidbliss (Oct 11, 2010)

yeah they did that to my best friend there too .... it sucks martin is such a backwoods university and it tries to say its so great and that everyone is there to help when they are not ... they just do what ever is good for them.... i swear if we lived in like Cali or some where on the east coast and not this hick part of tenn we would find school a lot easier... and more accepting ... and understand ...the south is really bad about not accepting larger women ... even in the work place... AND IF YOU WANT TO GO OVER THERE AND TALK TO THEM ILL GO WITH YOU AS YOUR SUPPORT... JUST SAY THE WORD.... and i notice there are a lot of places around her that arent big girl friendly..... a lot of the places to eat offer only booths and those high stools......i already promised im going to have larger salon chairs and waiting area couches for my salon, cause at least im trying to do my part...i dont like to be stuffed into any seat anywhere in public.... even movie theaters suck...they are all tiny seats and they hurt my legs and my back.... i really wish they could change some things.. its really bad down here... the acceptance is just so low.... its really hard to live here ... and i dont know if angie agrees with me ... but we live not to far from each other and i know where i live you cant even go eat with your Boyfriend with out some one looking and staring... it just sucks


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## Webmaster (Oct 11, 2010)

That is outrageous. It also goes to show how uneven "equal access" laws and regulations are. There are businesses who are shut down because they do not have the exact number of disabled parking spots or a ramp is wrong or missing. On the dive boat I was on last week, we were not allowed to use the inviting front part of the deck because there was no wheelchair access to it, and so the boat had been ordered to close access for all. And yet, there are schools who are unwilling to accommodate students with something as simple as a proper desk or chair. 

It is this patently unfair and unequal enforcement of access rules that makes activism necessary. As long as institutions can simply shrug it off and say they are not required to help, the only language they often understand is very public complaints.


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## superodalisque (Oct 11, 2010)

sounds like you need media involved but unfortunately a lot of students don't want to go that route because they're afraid that maybe they'll get criticized for being fat at all. the thing that often works best is some good old civil disobedience that makes the college look bad. 

maybe you need to go over everyone's head to the dean. make an appointment. take to him/her personally. cry if you have to. make sure the dean knows how important your education is to you. if you're quiet no one will do anything. make a stink. tell all of your professors and the other students, anyone you think would have a sympathetic ear. chances are most of them don't know this is going on. but before you do any of that go directly to building services yourself and be as charming and as nice as possible. even have some big brawny friends go with you and offer to carry the desk there yourselves. make sure to give them the chance to do something,anything, before you go administratively ham on them. but don't be afraid to if you have to. it doesn't make you enemies as a lot of people fear but actually gets you some respect on campus if you're tenacious and serious about getting your education any way you can.


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## Jes (Oct 11, 2010)

All right--here's some info that I hope will be helpful. I was discussing the issue with a friend who works with the ADA. You have found yourself in a ridiculous position, OP, given that no Univ. wants bad press or financial woes and America is getting fatter by the minute (esp. Tennessee!). I want to give you some encouragement!

An educational institution has to make reasonable accommodations to individuals who meet the legal definition of "disabled" under state or federal law. Most states' disability statutes mirror the Americans with Disabilities Act, so here's a reminder of that standard:

A person is disabled when she has an impairment that substantially limits a major life activity. Specific examples of major life activities that are included in the ADA include: caring for oneself, performing manual tasks, seeing, hearing, eating, sleeping, walking, standing, lifting, bending, speaking, breathing, learning, reading, concentrating, thinking, communicating, and working; as well as major bodily functions such as those of the bowel, bladder, brain, immune system, digestive system, respiratory system, circulatory system, endocrine system, reproductive system and normal cell growth. 

This list of major life activities (which isn't even exhaustive) is very broad. And it's much broader than it used to be - prior to January 1, 2009, the list was much shorter. The Act provides that the definition of disability is to be construed in such a way to give "broad coverage of individuals under this Act, to the maximum extent permitted by the terms of this Act." 

So, as a few of you have noted, being fat is not, in and of itself, a disability. In fact, no condition in and of itself is truly a 'per se' disability (though there are some conditions that are so universally severe that they end up being pretty much automatic disabilities) - it's the effect the disability has on the person that determines whether the person is disabled. But under the ADAAA, when determining if someone is disabled, the effects of mitigating measures are ignored, except in the case of corrective eyewear. This means: say a person is severely epileptic and so has 10 seizures a day. That person clearly meets the definition of disabled. But say this person takes medication that is so effective that the person has gone 10 years without a single seizure and never expects to have one again. That person is still disabled, because the new version of the ADA looks at the effects of the untreated condition, not the treated condition. 

Prior to 2009, my friend feels that you may have had a tough time establishing disability. She suggests you find a lawyer to write a letter to the school on your behalf setting forth the legal definition of disability and why you meets it, and threatening to take legal action if the appropriate accommodations are not made. For the completely trivial amount of money it would take the school to accommodate you, the school wouldn't insist on finding out. Basically, they get this letter from the lawyer, and the school has to decide, "Hey, do we want to spent a couple hundred bucks to get a chair and table for this chick, or do we want to spend tens of thousands of dollars and a bunch of our time trying to get a court to tell us we don't have to spend a couple hundred bucks on this student, keeping in mind that the whole debacle will be made public and we'll look like complete and utter assholes?" 

My lawyer friend's last comment was: I can't imagine the school wanting to have a public debate on this issue. 

But, that means you'll need to follow up, OP. I think that if you've been making calls and crying tears, then you have the drive it takes to find the lawyer and have a letter drafted on your behalf. Maybe BBMe's contact can help. Good luck, follow up and let us know your path to going back to school!


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## jewels_mystery (Oct 11, 2010)

I am so sorry you are experiencing this. It brought back a lot of memories for me and not good ones. I am surprised your disability office is being so difficult. Have you contacted your dean or department head? I have been known to steal a professor chair from a different floor and use it for class. Or check with one of the offices on that floor and see if they would loan you a chair for your class and you will bring it back. Good luck!!! {{hugs}}


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## BigBeautifulMe (Oct 11, 2010)

OMG I can't believe I forgot this trick... steal a separate chair from somewhere and turn one of those desks around and write on it that way. I forgot I did that for a while one semester for a week when my Disability Office was slow to get me what I needed.


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## jason_grvin (Oct 11, 2010)

This is probably not the best thing to say/do but if I were in a similar situation I'd just tell em that I want dropped from the class and any cost that you'd have gotten from the class you're not going to pay for. 

If they've made you unable to attend the class by their lack of action, that's something that needs to be brought up when it comes time to pony up for being in the class.

Know what I mean?


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## jewels_mystery (Oct 11, 2010)

I would not suggest not paying for the class. I worked at several colleges. If you do that, they will freeze your transcript. You will not be able to attend classes there or any other college. You will not be able to get a copy of your transcript to submit for any jobs and you may be barred from receiving financial aid.


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## CastingPearls (Oct 11, 2010)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> OMG I can't believe I forgot this trick... steal a separate chair from somewhere and turn one of those desks around and write on it that way. I forgot I did that for a while one semester for a week when my Disability Office was slow to get me what I needed.


When I took an adult education class I appropriated a corner of the instructor's desk until they provided more suitable seating for me.


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## BigBeautifulMe (Oct 11, 2010)

Yeah, I suggested that to her already.  Totally done that as well! I've even appropriated the instructor's ENTIRE desk since he basically stood at a lecture podium the entire time... lol.


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## bigmac (Oct 12, 2010)

This is terrible! Illustrates that while things have gotten much better in some parts of the country there are still many places were fat people don't have many allies.


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## PinkCandy (Oct 12, 2010)

This is terrible! I am so sorry that you have to go through it. If the school is not accommodating and you have missed so many classes maybe you should think about transferring? That really is not right at all and you should not have to go through that :blush:


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## jason_grvin (Oct 13, 2010)

jewels_mystery said:


> I would not suggest not paying for the class. I worked at several colleges. If you do that, they will freeze your transcript. You will not be able to attend classes there or any other college. You will not be able to get a copy of your transcript to submit for any jobs and you may be barred from receiving financial aid.



Not suggesting that you don't pay for it... but remind them (forcefully if need be) that you do have a choice as to who you give your money to and it doesn't have to be them.


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## blue_eyes (Oct 13, 2010)

Well I finally called the Dean of Student Services today. Told him what was going on and gave him my contact information. We'll see what happens.


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## Jes (Oct 13, 2010)

You're welcome, it was the least we could do.


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## BigBeautifulMe (Oct 13, 2010)

That's great, Angie. I'm really glad you took that step. Hope that person can help.


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## olwen (Oct 14, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> When I took an adult education class I appropriated a corner of the instructor's desk until they provided more suitable seating for me.



I did this too when I was in college. If I couldn't find a desk where the top moved down, I would ask the professor if I could use their chair and part of their desk. I never had a professor who said no, and I would imagine that if a professor would get sick of not having a table and chair, they'd offer to help in finding a solution.


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## blue_eyes (Oct 15, 2010)

New update...

Haven't heard back from the dean yet. I talked to my business law professor (the only class I can attend) and he is going to look into it. He was disgusted the way the school is treating me and not only is he a practicing attorney who deals with disability cases he also has friends who are ADA experts. 

And on top of it all I got a letter from UTM saying that because I'm a no-show I have to pay back my grants. So not only did they make it impossible for me to go to school they are now punishing me for it.


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## HottiMegan (Oct 15, 2010)

i really hope you get your seating straightened out. At Chico state they always had one handi desk and then all the other "desks", you could fold the table part down.

If you can, try sitting on the floor next to a wall for your classes. I'd almost be more comfy on the floor than some of the seating i had in college.


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## FatAndProud (Oct 15, 2010)

HottiMegan said:


> i really hope you get your seating straightened out. At Chico state they always had one handi desk and then all the other "desks", you could fold the table part down.
> 
> If you can, try sitting on the floor next to a wall for your classes. I'd almost be more comfy on the floor than some of the seating i had in college.



Not to be a bitch (don't take this in a mean tone!!!), but she shouldn't have to sit on the floor  I know you only are saying that so she doesn't miss classes...but it's not right the way the university is treating her like a burden. She has the right to a chair/desk just as well as the other students. Her tuition is just as much as theirs!


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## natepogue (Oct 17, 2010)

I wonder if any really big dudes have had the same problem? Seems like there's always more big guys (fat or muscled) at any given school. The whole situation is bullshit though, I know if I was you i'd let this get to me a lot more than you are.


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## grubnboy (Oct 19, 2010)

i'm sorry you guys have had those problems here in TN. i know it sounds bad, but i'd recommend finding a school that better suits your needs. 

MTSU has some pretty big students and i've yet to see a classroom that doesn't have tables and chairs, on top of the stupid desks. my question is how do they accommodate people in wheel chairs without tables? are the people in wheel chairs supposed to bring their own writing surfaces? 

on a side note, i know that the last day to drop classes and receive a W was a few days ago at MTSU. be careful to make sure you don't end up in a situation where the school keeps your money. 

i know the Martin campus is pretty funky, a friend of mine attended there years ago. as far as online schools go, UoP is terrible. i attended for one semester and then withdrew to attend MTSU. my wife is a bit smaller than you (300+) but she has been quite comfortable there. a lot of walking, but a very nice school overall.


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## HottiMegan (Oct 19, 2010)

FatAndProud said:


> Not to be a bitch (don't take this in a mean tone!!!), but she shouldn't have to sit on the floor  I know you only are saying that so she doesn't miss classes...but it's not right the way the university is treating her like a burden. She has the right to a chair/desk just as well as the other students. Her tuition is just as much as theirs!



I only suggested it as to not lose financial aid. She shouldn't have to sit on the floor but i would sit on the floor to keep my financial aid. I sit on the floor often if there is no seating to accommodate me.


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## SuperSizedAngie (Oct 19, 2010)

HottiMegan said:


> i really hope you get your seating straightened out. At Chico state they always had one handi desk and then all the other "desks", you could fold the table part down.
> 
> If you can, try sitting on the floor next to a wall for your classes. I'd almost be more comfy on the floor than some of the seating i had in college.



I have tried this option before and BEEN KICKED OUT OF CLASS. Why? Because it's a fire hazard. If someone is on the floor, they are "obstructing other's ability to exit the room in the event of an emergency." That was the reason I was given, and after a lot of research, it appears that they were totally legally justified in saying that. Almost all states have laws that specify pathways between desks (especially in classrooms) must be kept free of all obstacles in the fire codes. Unfortunately, that also means humans. In the event of a stampede to get out of the classroom, if you can't get up fast enough or be out of the way, then you can get trampled to death or block the path for others to get out. 

That may sound harsh, but if you look at what things were like before fire codes were in effect, you'd understand why they don't allow that at all.


I too would sit on the floor to be able to keep going to class, but unfortunately, you've gotta find another way that doesn't break the law or put other people in danger.


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## Tooz (Oct 19, 2010)

I had some threads about this. Do the "threads started by this user" to see them.


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## mz_puss (Oct 21, 2010)

This is fucking bullshit and size discrimination ! its illegal, or if not it should be! I had a similar issue in my workplace they only had shitty little swivel chairs with a weight limit of 250 pounds and i continuously broke them about one every 3 weeks, it was so humiliating in the work place, when i went to my manager and told them that not only was i physically suffering from the uncomfortable chair ( i have bad arthritis n a twisted spine) but the humiliation alone was really getting to me. Her response was "well once you pay for all the broken chairs, we will order you a new one , in which u can pay for " I took this to my union n got my manager in a lot of strife n she had to order me a new chair, it still only had a weight capacity of 350pounds n took 3 months to arrive n broke about 2 months after it did, but at least something was done n i wasn't ignored.

You seem like a wonderful smart woman, dont let this go n do not jeopardize your education, try student council there supposed to be there to support your needs n bring light to student issues, you surely can not be the only person experiencing this in your collage. Or as someone else suggested go directly to your dean and i would threaten media attention, tell them that you have no problem telling the world that your fat and u do it on a daily basis, but can the school admit its blatant hate, laziness, discrimination to the world ? ask them what there reputation is really worth to them , and if student welfare holds any meaning at all. Sorry if i sound so cranky but it really gets to me that this can happen in today's society.


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## spacedcowgirl (Oct 22, 2010)

First of all I wanted to say that you should not have to do what I am about to suggest, and I am so sorry your school is being so ridiculously unaccommodating. If they can't do it just because it's the right thing to do, you'd think they'd do it to keep their customers satisfied since college is so ridiculously expensive these days.

however, since they haven't acted yet, could you possibly bring in one of those folding stadium chairs and a portable "lap desk" to use?

Again, I so much hate to even suggest that because it's awful that you would even have to consider it. Especially since you would have to pay even more money to buy the chair if you don't have one already. But if you get no response from the dean and are facing a situation where you have to pay back your grants, and need some kind of "emergency stopgap" measure, this might work.

Here is a chair and desk of the type I was referring to:

http://www.livingxl.com/store/en_US/catalog/browse_sku.jsp?clear=true&catID=cat70187&prodId=X1003&id=cat70187&cm_mmc=PaidSearch*Google*ChairSale*Default&gclid=CLb8v4-U56QCFVvW5wodbDzX2w

http://www.amazon.com/MyDesk-Assorted-Colors-15-3125-12-3125/dp/B002Q875GQ/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1287774175&sr=8-4

Good luck. I hope they do the right thing and put that table in (Seriously. They won't add a TABLE to a classroom?!) and you don't end up needing this information.


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## blue_eyes (Oct 25, 2010)

Well now they have put a table and chair in the class (its now 9 weeks later) and after talking to the woman she was like yeah theres no way you will be able to pass the class. 

So now its like whats the point. They waited so long that I have no choice but to fail the class.

As for carrying a chair/table there is no way I could carry all of that.


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## Jes (Oct 25, 2010)

blue_eyes said:


> Well now they have put a table and chair in the class (its now 9 weeks later) and after talking to the woman she was like yeah theres no way you will be able to pass the class.
> 
> So now its like whats the point. They waited so long that I have no choice but to fail the class.
> 
> As for carrying a chair/table there is no way I could carry all of that.



If you can't get the whole thing...expunged, or whatever they call it, what about getting extensions for the classes. You'll have to work on your own time, but it's better than failing and you'll get credit for what you've paid.


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## FatAndProud (Oct 25, 2010)

blue_eyes said:


> Well now they have put a table and chair in the class (its now 9 weeks later) and after talking to the woman she was like yeah theres no way you will be able to pass the class.
> 
> So now its like whats the point. They waited so long that I have no choice but to fail the class.
> 
> As for carrying a chair/table there is no way I could carry all of that.



Really, you should've kept in contact with the professor...

In such a situation, I'd go to the professor and have a sit-down and tell him/her your deal. Make sure to e-mail the professor, first, to establish a time/place you can meet.


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