# Why do guys choose to date thin(ner) women and then complain about it?



## ripley (Mar 7, 2008)

(I don't know if this is in the right place, mods, so you might want to move it.)




There are regularly threads about men who are dating a woman and are unfulfilled (or downright unhappy) by her size. I'm kinda confused about this. I know there are millions of fat women in the world who would like a boyfriend, and yet they choose a thin(ner) woman to date, and then are unhappy.

I've been thinking about it and this is what I've come down to:

1. He likes the lifestyle a thin(ner) woman has...the ability to do more things, go more places, have less need for any special accommodations. She fits into his life better, without him even realizing it.

2. He's fallen into the PC kind of SA thinking that he's "attracted to all sizes and shapes".

3. Fat(ter) women are separate...not really a part of his social sphere, and relegated to the internet. He dates the thin(ner) women in his circle, so he doesn't have to break out and be different and maybe laughed at, and leaves the fat(ter) women for his fantasy life.

4. He is turned on by the thought of a thin(ner) woman gaining, and hopes to someday find one of those rare creatures.

5. He likes her personality and thinks it will be enough.





I can't help but be a little...unsympathetic to guys who do this. There are just so many fat women I know personally who are on the market, so to speak, so I don't have much feeling for an FA who gets himself into one of these situations.

Any thoughts? Arguments? Feelings?


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## Shosh (Mar 7, 2008)

I think that there are definately guys that prefer BBW'S and SSBBW'S but date thin women as that is what is socially acceptable and expected. 

There is often also intense pressure from family and parents for a man to be seen with a pretty and thin woman on his arms, and when a man has a preference for a big beautiful woman sometimes the family cannot accept it.
I believe that family members and friends should be accepting and welcoming of the person's partner regardless of size.

Look it is a tough one. Should we give men time and space to come to terms with their preference? I think so. I try not to be too tough on people as I tend to believe that we all need to process and work through most things in life.
Having said that if a man is a lover of BBW'S etc and he shuns them publicly in front of his friends etc, I would say that he was a creep etc.

Hope that helped Rip.


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## Gspoon (Mar 7, 2008)

I did date thin girls, then I found out I was an FA... now I am dating a large girl 

But to be honest, I am not sure. It could be that he is afraid of others finding out he is and FA or something along those lines. People are different; some want to keep a low profile, and some just want to try and yes, get that rare girl who goes from a size 0 to a size 18 in under a year.

Why they complain I will never know. They get themselves in that mess and choose to vent. I know where they are coming from on some cases, but I will never know why they continue to do it.


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## furious styles (Mar 7, 2008)

I fell in love with a thin girl once. People fall in love with those they're not immediately physically attracted to. We'd been friends for years and just decided to try it. Fell madly in love like two 17 year olds should. It was a tough time but I never bitched about it because I _knew_ what I was getting into.


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## mossystate (Mar 7, 2008)

I just cannot get too worked up/care about men who, in every other area of their lives, are ' go-getters ', and, want to talk about how they are ' hardwired ' to like fat women...and then.....want a bunch of empathy, as they date thin women, who they then basically trash. I cut a bit of slack for the young men, for they are usually sorting out a lot in their lives. Men who are not young and want to pretty much pollute the earth with their ' whoa is me..please coddle me '...sorry...I have to live in this fat body..buck up, cowboy. 

If a man lives in a place where there is not one fat woman...he gets a bit of slack..just decided that..ha.

I really do feel that part of all this is part of the whole deal of many men thinking women, being women, will always be there as they ' figure things out ', no matter that the women are also human beings.

I know this is not really addressing the OP..sorry, Riplola..*L*..I am just...fed up.


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## Wagimawr (Mar 7, 2008)

Agreeing with Mossy here.

It's one thing to either be learning about your preferences or discover your preferences in the process of dating.

To be well-established in yourself as an FA and continue to date thin girls for some bizarre reason is something pretty inexcusable.

It is PERFECTLY acceptable to remain single and open to many possibilities while you search for someone you're compatible with - latching onto the first partner that has some semblance of attractiveness, for whatever reason, be it neediness, loneliness, or just getting one's rocks off, so to speak is a pointless exercise that only results in pain all around.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Mar 7, 2008)

I'd imagine it's because it's just more socially acceptable to like/date thin women. That is probably the biggest reason, it's just less drama to deal with from friends and family. That said .. I have no sympathy for these guys and don't tolerate whining from 'em. 

I'm not a fan of the whole "I'm an FA and it's such a burden, no one understands" crowd. 

Best.burden.ever? 

May as well get over the whole "what will people think" issue because if it's not one thing in life, it's another. People are going to pick something out to get on you about, so you may as well date who you want to date and be happy with it. 

That said, everyone dating thin women can keep up the good work. 

As an all out FA I fully support closet FAs and their lack of a pair.


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## Santaclear (Mar 7, 2008)

I have very little patience or empathy for guys like this on the boards and I fully understand why fat women would find those guys' attitudes exasperating.

That said, this is a topic we visit and revisit on every thread where said guys whine. I rarely chat but I'm sure it gets visited there too.

Bottom line: they're lame and boring.


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## Shosh (Mar 7, 2008)

Santaclear said:


> I have very little patience or empathy for guys like this on the boards and I fully understand why fat women would find those guys' attitudes exasperating.
> 
> That said, this is a topic we visit and revisit on every thread where said guys whine. I rarely chat but I'm sure it gets visited there too.
> 
> Bottom line: they're lame and boring.



Yes you could be right. I tend to be pretty soft on people all the time.


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## Bafta1 (Mar 7, 2008)

ripley said:


> (I don't know if this is in the right place, mods, so you might want to move it.)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Definitely number 3. It's not that I wouldn't date a fat girl because I'd be laughed at by friends though. My friends are very accepting. I simply don't meet any girls who are my type; or, if I do, I become very introvert and find myself unable to talk. I guess I just don't know how to deal with speaking to someone I'm genuinely attracted to.


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## Just_Jen (Mar 7, 2008)

this thread makes me get all angsty just reading it. Makes me angry just thinking about the stupid men that say they love BBWs yet date the thin people, it's like come on, get over yourself!! i mean fair enough if theyre in love with them and all that jizz but dont moan about it! it's just stupid and i then want to kill you! 

I dont give a damn what social pressures the men face that admit to loving larger ladies, because us ladies get it constantly anyway and it's not like you guys are that easily identifiable in general life, you dont go around with a beacon or anything! 

so to conclude : put up and shut up


/rant


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 7, 2008)

It's a good question, Ripley, and there are probably as many answers as there are FA's, i doubt there is one overiding reason why this happens.

#1 is certainly a good possibility. I know there was one guy who posted on here that while he was sexually attracted to very large women, he typically dated mid sized fat women because he had an active lifestyle and he felt like dating somebody solely due to a sexual attraction was unethical. I have a personal FA friend who experienced something similar; he said he was very sexually aroused by a woman in the 350 pound range, but the practicalities of worrying over whether she'd fit into a movie theater seat or could walk long distances was just too stressful. 

#2 is also probably likely. Some people truly *are* attracted to all shapes ad sizes, but i think with some they may figure "well everything else is good as far as shared interests or religion or plans for children, so I guess it will be ok if she's a little smaller than the women in my porn collection." Then they find that missing piece is more important than they thought. Also, some people may confuse "looks" with "sexual attraction." Many of even the most hard core FA's on here will say they find smaller women pretty or can appreciate their beauty, but they are not *sexually aroused* by them.

#3 I don't know about, I mean it's not as if there's some Fat Island or something where all the fat women live. Unless you have a particularly narrow social/academic/professional circle, it's hard to imagine there are not fat women around you. I can see an exception to this if maybe you have a very specific preference as far as size or shape, and maybe you live in a small town or go to a small college, but I doubt that is the majority.

#4 Erotic Weight Gain is a sexual fetish. There are some people into it and some not into it. Even for those who find it hot, many won't put the gaining into practice for practical or health reasons. Dating a thin woman with the hopes that she'll wind up satisfying this fetish makes as much sense as dating a parking valet with the hopes he'll win Lotto.

#5 I think is close to #2. We can't always help who we meet and who we fall for. We've all wound up being attracted to somebody "not our type" or really liking somebody we "should" be hot for but just aren't. Also, "fat" really is about how you look; you look fat. I don't think it's that odd for somebody to feel conflicted about how much they "should" focus on appearance.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Mar 7, 2008)

To tell you the truth - guys like this aren't even worth my time to think about. You either Ripley. A coward is a coward.


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## jakub (Mar 7, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> I'd imagine it's because it's just more socially acceptable to like/date thin women. That is probably the biggest reason, it's just less drama to deal with from friends and family.



If they cares about what other peoples think - they are losers... Big woman with this kind of people will suffer.


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## TallFatSue (Mar 7, 2008)

mossystate said:


> I cut a bit of slack for the young men, for they are usually sorting out a lot in their lives. Men who are not young and want to pretty much pollute the earth with their ' whoa is me..please coddle me '...sorry...I have to live in this fat body..buck up, cowboy.


Men often cave in to peer pressure. My husband had dated only thin girls before me, and then he found himself attracted to the fattest girl he ever met. His friends let him have it with both barrels, and compared negative peer pressure to swimming up a waterfall, but he reckoned that if salmon could buck the current, so could he. Besides, Art had something of a rebellious streak himself. 

Methinx lotsa men love fat women but won't admit it due to peer pressure. Maybe I'm hopelessly vain, but I've noticed this sometime when we've had a short wait at a restaurant, and I've opted to stand (rather than sit in one of those comfy sofas stuffed with quicksand which swallow fat women). I've noticed more than a few men seated nearby try not to be too obvious as they eye my supersize assets and get, er, excited. It's funny when their skinny little wives get upset and hiss, "Stop staring at that fat bitch!" Cool, a middle-aged obese woman like me can still turn heads. Sometimes when I notice this, I rock back and forth on the balls of my feet to increase the jiggle factor (although my cover story is that it eases back strain when I just stand). 

Sometimes during my travels, I've encountered men who wanted sympathy because they married thin women but "really love fat women." I can sympathize to a certain point, because they've realized the error of their ways, but too late! Sorry I'm not interested in a fling, thank you very much. How can we edumicate men and boys while they're younger that Miss Right might be a fat woman? We can't exactly rewind their lives after they've dealt with the consequences of wrong decisions, so they can go back in time and make the right decisions. 'Tis a puzzlement. 

I'm conflicted about a few things myself. I want to be appreciated for my personality and abilities, and my fat should be irrelevant. But like it or not, obesity plays a major role in my life. It's my "normal". So when Art & I went on our first date, and I got an impressive case of nervous hiccups, and he became transfixed watching my fat breasts shake every 5 seconds, I just kinda shrugged and reeled him in. Feminine charms I never knew I had! A lot of women hate being fat, but in my case obesity has really clarified what I want out of life, and forced me to think creatively. With the right attitude, obesity can be liberating. 

But ya know, it's not merely a matter of fat and thin. People make all sorts of decisions for the wrong reasons, swayed by what they *think* others will think, by advertising, by the media etc. At my 25th and 30th high school class reunion were a man and a woman from my class who really should have married each other, but didn't because their familes didn't think he or she was "good enough" for whatever silly reasons. So they each caved in, married someone else, and groused almost continually about their spouses, who didn't come to the reunions.


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## AnnMarie (Mar 7, 2008)

2 and 5 have been my experience. No excuse for it really, but that's where things have seem to come down. Best intentions gone completely awry.


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## ashmamma84 (Mar 7, 2008)

I don't have much sympathy for people like this either -- my heart says that everyone has a journey and it's no different for a person who is attracted to fat women and part of that is acceptance (and that can take some time or forever) but then my head says, be a grown (wo)man and live authentically already!!! Time waits for no one...and while you are desperately unhappy with your current situation, life is passing you by.


On the flip side, yes alot of fat women would like to date, but I don't really see it being dependent upon those (wo)men who don't have their acts together yet...because that's what I feel this is about. Growing up and not making apologies for who you are and what you do. I feel like focusing on those people exerts too much energy and unneccessary stress when I could be out trying to make a connection happen. And maybe it also just depends on if you have to have someone that self-identifies as an (F)FA? Dunno...


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## Tad (Mar 7, 2008)

ripley said:


> There are regularly threads about men who are dating a woman and are unfulfilled (or downright unhappy) by her size. I'm kinda confused about this. I know there are millions of fat women in the world who would like a boyfriend, and yet they choose a thin(ner) woman to date, and then are unhappy.
> 
> I've been thinking about it and this is what I've come down to:



How about:

6) It started off casual, 'cause she was nice and all but he never intended to get serious with a thin woman. Then the biology of infatuation kicked in, and everything about her seemed marvelous and desirable and attractive, and he let himself fall in love, and he just knew that he could put aside his FA feelings for her. Eventually the infatuation wore off, as is its wont, and while he still loved her as a person, that initial lack of excitement about her body has become apparent again.

7) He always found big women attractive, but some thin women were cute too. He was never especially confident at hitting on women, but got to talking to this thinner woman and things really clicked, and they started dating, and really they are great together and he is in love with her and never wants to hurt her--but he's realized that although she is cute, that is different from ohmygodIwanttobanghernow-sexy.

When I've talked to guys in this situation, one or other, or some combination, of those two seem to be the story, more often than not. Remember that most people aren't totally clear about what they are looking for (especially young men, who are driven strongly to want sex-right-now, and may have a hard time thinking about things clearly beyond that), and a lot of relationships start off as just a date or even a flirtation, without plans for five or more years down the road, or for that matter without plans for actually falling solidly in love.

In other words, I think it is not usually so much 'choose' as 'stumble into.' A better awareness of long term consequences would probably head off some of these things, but obliviousness to long term consequences seems to be natures way of getting young men to do their best to procreate the species before they kill themselves through testosterone poisoning.

Feel free to disagree, or to come to different conclusions. These are just my conclusions based on what I've seen from guys I know and guys I've talked with (sometime specifically about this issue, and sometimes just in general about guys and relationships).


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## superodalisque (Mar 7, 2008)

me either. i like a man with personal courage and i refuse to have anything to do with men who are whiners and that whimp out--especially on their own personal desires.


*sings* "you made me love you
i didn't wanna do it
i didn't wanna do it..."


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 7, 2008)

Might be because given all the mitigating factors the thin woman was the 'best' possible match? Being fat should not and probably would not be the be all and end all that builds a relationship. A guy could marry a fat but dumb girl. He may screw her like a rabid monkey every night but he's still going to crave mental stimulation from some place, that part of him won't die just because he's sexually fullfilled. I get sick of listening to whiney guys squeezing our chops here too but look on the bright side. He could be YOUR problem bragging about what an awesome lay you are but you don't dig WoW or carnies or something.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 7, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> Might be because given all the mitigating factors the thin woman was the 'best' possible match? Being fat should not and probably would not be the be all and end all that builds a relationship. A guy could marry a fat but dumb girl. He may screw her like a rabid monkey every night but he's still going to crave mental stimulation from some place, that part of him won't die just because he's sexually fullfilled. I get sick of listening to whiney guys squeezing our chops here too but look on the bright side. He could be YOUR problem bragging about what an awesome lay you are but you don't dig WoW or carnies or something.



Good point Lilly. I mean we do have to consider the source when we read these posts, or by "source" i guess i really mean venue. IOW, these guys complain to a pretty sympathetic audience of "Yeah, fat women ARE sexy and it sucks for you to not be with one." 

I sometimes wonder how perfect all these relatioships really are. I mean the tenor of those posts is always "everything is fantastic except she's not fat." I wonder if that's the whole problem or it's just an easy out. Focusing on appearance is really pretty easy.

I know there is some difference of opinion here about "size acceptance" vs. "fat acceptance." When we see these posts, many of the responses are along the lines of "Hey, sexual attraction is important and you need to break up with her and be with somebody who excites you sexually." For those of us who favor size acceptance rather than fat acceptance, I wonder what the reaction would be to a man saying "I really love my wife but since she gained 150 pounds i'm just not hot for her anymore. I can't help the way I feel, she's a great person but the fat is a turnoff."

I'd be curious to see if there was a different ratio of "Dump her" to "Accept her as she is."


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 7, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Good point Lilly. I mean we do have to consider the source when we read these posts, or by "source" i guess i really mean venue. IOW, these guys complain to a pretty sympathetic audience of "Yeah, fat women ARE sexy and it sucks for you to not be with one."
> 
> I sometimes wonder how perfect all these relatioships really are. I mean the tenor of those posts is always "everything is fantastic except she's not fat." I wonder if that's the whole problem or it's just an easy out. Focusing on appearance is really pretty easy.
> 
> ...



I would give the same advice though I will admit my emotional double speak here in that I would be a bit more annoyed with him in this scenario than the other. Maybe it's because the thin to fat scenario is more cliched than the other way around? It is often done in a more cruel fashion in that there is this humiliating disdain for getting fat that gives dignity to his leaving. He leaves her and people say, "Uh-oh, you shulda called Jenny dear." His wife gets to a billiondy pounds and nobody is going to fault him for leaving her and will assume she brought it all on herself. Not trying to justify it, just analyzing out loud I guess.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 7, 2008)

It's an interesting thought process to work through.

At one point we had a discussion about something similar, and you pointed out that there is nothing "noble" about being an FA, it's just about your sexuality. It does not make you a better person any more than being thin/fat does.

Yet for some reason, it seems that a guy who leaves a woman who gained weight is shallow, and a guy who leaves a woman who loses weight is just following his true self/nature. I admit to thinking the same way, so I guess i'm as biased/judgemental as anyone.

If we assume for argument's sake that somebody has total control over her size, should we feel that a woman married to an FA "deserves" to lose her man if she loses weight? 

Or that a smaller woman who is unwilling to gain weight is somehow less committed to her relationship than a woman who eats salad and exercises every day to keep in shape for her husband? I wonder if an FA could be justified in telling a small/average woman "if you really loved me you'd want to look good for me and you'd gain weight."


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## superodalisque (Mar 7, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> It's an interesting thought process to work through.
> 
> At one point we had a discussion about something similar, and you pointed out that there is nothing "noble" about being an FA, it's just about your sexuality. It does not make you a better person any more than being thin/fat does.
> 
> Yet for some reason, it seems that a guy who leaves a woman who gained weight is shallow, and a guy who leaves a woman who loses weight is just following his true self/nature. I admit to thinking the same way, so I guess i'm as biased/judgemental as anyone.



both are shallow. sadly some guys just never figure out what women are, what they are truly composed of and everything they are good for. its like having a bentley and always obsessing over the shapeliness of the door handle and never learning of the beauty handling utility and engineering history of the rest of the car.


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## NoWayOut (Mar 7, 2008)

My answer would be #5 if that were the case for me. And for me, personality is enough.


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 7, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> It's an interesting thought process to work through.
> 
> At one point we had a discussion about something similar, and you pointed out that there is nothing "noble" about being an FA, it's just about your sexuality. It does not make you a better person any more than being thin/fat does.
> 
> ...



There's a part of me that wants to cut people some slack but it duels with another part that says people are not cars or furniture you can trade in when the color fades. With that being said, do I want to stay with a guy who thinks I'm getting a little dingy and is looking at newer models? if I marry a guy that one dimensional maybe I'm partially to blame as well. It's a lot to sort through and gonna take me a while.


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## furious styles (Mar 7, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> Might be because given all the mitigating factors the thin woman was the 'best' possible match? Being fat should not and probably would not be the be all and end all that builds a relationship. A guy could marry a fat but dumb girl. He may screw her like a rabid monkey every night but he's still going to crave mental stimulation from some place, that part of him won't die just because he's sexually fullfilled. I get sick of listening to whiney guys squeezing our chops here too but look on the bright side. He could be YOUR problem bragging about what an awesome lay you are but you don't dig WoW or carnies or something.



Indeed.

Believe it or not, sexual attraction is not a relationship's be all - end all. It's possible to fall for someone you're not fucking. It seems like few people realize this?

I know that some of the men this thread describes are infuriatingly dumb (they get my goat more than practically anyone), but don't throw every FA that's dated a skinny girl into one of those categorizations.


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## knottyknicky (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm tempted to turn this around so that it applies to women as well. I think all of us are guilty of dating someone we weren't 100 percent attracted to, in hopes that love would conquer all, so to speak. I generally tend to be attracted to thinner guys, but upon dating a larger dude who I had loads in common with (I really gave it an honest shot) I realized just how important my physical preferences are to me. I wish that guy had been more attracted to me...I wish I could have gotten over my hangups about his appearance, but at the end of the day, physical attraction really is that important to some people (myself included)...The difference though, is that now I (more or less) understand my preferences and take care not to get involved with people who don't turn me on in all ways, because inevitabley, someone would get hurt when the relationship didn't reach its full potential. 

I don't know, I just see it as working both ways, and not just regarding fat, but regarding all kinds of physical traits, well beyond weight.


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## NoWayOut (Mar 7, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> \I know there is some difference of opinion here about "size acceptance" vs. "fat acceptance." When we see these posts, many of the responses are along the lines of "Hey, sexual attraction is important and you need to break up with her and be with somebody who excites you sexually." For those of us who favor size acceptance rather than fat acceptance, I wonder what the reaction would be to a man saying "I really love my wife but since she gained 150 pounds i'm just not hot for her anymore. I can't help the way I feel, she's a great person but the fat is a turnoff."
> 
> I'd be curious to see if there was a different ratio of "Dump her" to "Accept her as she is."



First, my view would be that she's a great person and the fat is a turn-on. But if I didn't like fat on a woman, I'd say accept her as she is. Personality trumps all.


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 7, 2008)

I agree but does anybody truly ever find the girl/guy of their dreams? Millions of married guys fap to Pemala Anderson. I think the question we have to ask ourselves is if my beloved changed would I still want to be with him/her? Maybe the definition of 'love' for a lot of people needs to change for those who are mistaking love for something it is not. Still thinking out loud.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 7, 2008)

In theory, yes, personality and character trump looks.

But sex and sexual attraction may be very important to some people in relationships. It might get very frustrating and stressful for a man to be unable to be sexually aroused by the woman he loves. It would be very stressful and frustrating for the woman if she knew her partner could not be fully attracted to her or that he had to use mental images of women who looked wholly differet from her in order to be aroused.

When we have these discussion we need to make sure to consider the nuances between "love" and "sexual attraction." Lots of us have been sexually aroused by people we don't even like, so the two are not necessarily linked.


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## NoWayOut (Mar 7, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> In theory, yes, personality and character trump looks.
> 
> But sex and sexual attraction may be very important to some people in relationships. It might get very frustrating and stressful for a man to be unable to be sexually aroused by the woman he loves. It would be very stressful and frustrating for the woman if she knew her partner could not be fully attracted to her or that he had to use mental images of women who looked wholly differet from her in order to be aroused.
> 
> When we have these discussion we need to make sure to consider the nuances between "love" and "sexual attraction." Lots of us have been sexually aroused by people we don't even like, so the two are not necessarily linked.



I was referring to my own view.


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## troubadours (Mar 7, 2008)

i prob wouldn't mind that FAs date thin girls so much if more non-FAs were into fatties like myself. 

it just seems like we can't get a break. just saying!


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## Fascinita (Mar 7, 2008)

edx said:


> before they kill themselves through testosterone poisoning.



What's this exactly, ed? A medical term? Or just another way of saying "boys will be boys"?

Can we keep it real? I have a world of respect for you. An immense world of respect. But there's no such thing as "testosterone poisoning."



LillyBBBW said:


> A guy could marry a fat but dumb girl. He may screw her like a rabid monkey every night but he's still going to crave mental stimulation from some place, that part of him won't die just because he's sexually fullfilled.



Well, but the alternatives are not "fat, dumb woman" and "intelligent, thin woman." There are plenty of "intelligent, fat women" and "dumb, thin women," too. Just sayin'...

And I think the OP is pointing out that it's frustrating to read post after post after post of supposed "FAs" who nonetheless claim to be in sexually unfulfilling relationships with thin women who won't gain weight, or slightly plump women who want to lose weight. Meanwhile they're fantasizing about supersize women. Meanwhile, the actual supersize women here--intelligent, accomplished, well-rounded, life-loving, self-accepting women--are stuck at home alone night after night, month after month. And as for thin women--any woman, really--don't they deserve partners who love them as they are, too?

So it seems to me that there are choices being made that are destructive all-around. And I'm not sure I understand what drives those choices. I suspect some of has to do with just the unpredictability of life. But the pattern is so persistent, that it feels like there's more than just chance involved. If so many men are choosing thin partners when they would rather have fat partners, can we say that there isn't something "hinky" there? 

It's a real puzzle and an endless source of frustration specifically for many women here, I think. The facts are, if you're a fat woman, your dating choices are more likely to be very constraining. So in real terms, we do suffer. The longterm loneliness of many of my fat female friends sometimes astounds me. And angers me. These are great women. But nobody'll touch them with a ten foot pole. Or the alternative is to settle for being someone's dirty little secret or fantasy. Well, why can't we have some reasonably close facsimile of the average American life? What about our shot at happiness, or even at a mildly satisfying life that you build with someone?

And all of this, to me, begs the question of how much sympathy we should extend to a person who chooses to live a double life, essentially.


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## Mini (Mar 7, 2008)

Heh, you might as well ask why otherwise intelligent women date assholes and then bitch about it to their nice guy friends.


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## knottyknicky (Mar 7, 2008)

Mini said:


> Heh, you might as well ask why otherwise intelligent women date assholes and then bitch about it to their nice guy friends.





ZING!


It works both ways.


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## bigsexy920 (Mar 7, 2008)

Everyone has there reasons for things but I have a hard time with men that do this Rip - What I dislike even more is they say things like well its hard to find a confident BBW blah blah blah - WELL jeeze yah think - constantly being put down for our weight and then the men that "love" us do the even more damage by denying us and the fact that they are attracted to us. 

So when you guys - and you know who you are trying talking to me and you are married to a thin woman but she dosent do it for ya - I just want to say Im sorry if Ive been rude - but I dont want to hear it.


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## Fascinita (Mar 7, 2008)

Mini said:


> Heh, you might as well ask why otherwise intelligent women date assholes and then bitch about it to their nice guy friends.



Yeah, but this is a board for airing out issues of FAs and fat people, not issues of milquetoasts and their female friends.


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## Mini (Mar 7, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Yeah, but this is a board for airing out issues of FAs and fat people, not issues of milquetoasts and women who love bad boys.



What, fat women can't be intelligent?


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## Dr. P Marshall (Mar 7, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> I agree but does anybody truly ever find the girl/guy of their dreams? Millions of married guys fap to Pemala Anderson. I think the question we have to ask ourselves is if my beloved changed would I still want to be with him/her? Maybe the definition of 'love' for a lot of people needs to change for those who are mistaking love for something it is not. Still thinking out loud.



As always, the wisdom of Lilly strikes again. Actually there's a lot of wisdom in this thread, but my post is already epic AGAIN.

I think you've got it absolutely right Lilly. Time and change happen to everyone, so you can't base something just on physical attraction. Actually, sometimes you might not even be able to count on the personality you fell in love with either. People can get diseases or injuries or go through a depression, in other words, even the personality can change sometimes. I think that it makes sense to try to find someone who at the outset of a relationship fulfills as many of your dreams as possible, but a true committed relationship for the long term really has to be faced with the reality that, no matter what else happens, you won't be the same people at 80 that you are at 30 in many ways. Also, there are times when building a life together causes a couple to focus on so many other things that while sex is important, it might be less important for a time. I have heard this from every couple with a new born baby for example. Life tests you, it really does and I think more relationships would last if people thought ahead.

Having said that, and getting back to ripley's question, I think that for a younger man(or woman, but I'll use man from here on out to save space) or a man who has just really figured out he is an FA(and I think the full realization can hit later) it is more understandable that there would still be issues to figure out and sort through. And yes, sometimes, we can fall in love with the person we least expect. But I think how he struggles with it is often very telling. For some reason I have trouble believing "she's perfect, but she just won't gain 100 pounds, damn it!" translates into a good relationship. (OK, I'm exaggerating, but you see my point.) On the other hand, a man who is truly in love, but is wondering if he could spend the rest of his life with a thin woman or if he'd always wonder "what if", that I think, is a little trickier, I really do. But I also think everyone wonders "what if" and sometimes you just have to make a decision and take a risk. 

NOW about societal and family pressure. This one just makes me nuts, it really does, so here is my rant. I apologize in advance. I understand about family and societal pressures, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, at some point you have to realize your life is YOUR life and there is no point in living it for everyone else. I'm not talking about people who live in a small town, or who are still coming to terms with being an FA, I'm talking about people who know full well they're FAs and who have real life opportunities and still don't want to accept that fact, but who want to complain about it anyway. Those people need to grow up, they really do. (I'm not talking about struggling with thoughts or feelings as an F/FA, I'm talking about not dating BBW or BHM because you're afraid of what others think. Or not dating them openly.) Unless they're very young, or the realization is very new to them, they shouldn't really expect much sympathy when they post that on the boards. OK, they shouldn't expect any sympathy.  

I think any F/FA who feels that way should really think about this scenario: 

Someone walks up to you and says, "Man, you are gorgeous. Everything I've ever dreamed about and you know what, you seem like you're a cool person too. I'd love to get to know you better, but here's the thing. I could never date you officially, or introduce you to my friends or family because, well, they wouldn't approve and honestly, I don't want to make waves with my family and friends. But maybe we could, you know see each other anyway, on the side. I just won't ever, ever date you officially. But really, I think you're amazing. You understand, right? Right? Oh, and you feel bad for me for being so conflicted too, right? Right?" 

Because let's be honest, THAT is the situation that every F/FA who says they don't date BBW/BHM because they're afraid what everyone will think is actually saying when they post about it on the boards. And yes, I am an FFA and not a BBW so I am saying this to my fellow F/FAs who say these things. (Again, not the young ones, we know the ones I'm talking about.) And please, I'm not saying it's wrong to feel that way, you can't help how you feel, and I'm not saying it's wrong to post that here because hopefully the other members of the board can "set you straight" but if you expect sympathy for something like that, you're just delusional. Sorry.

One thing though, I do see the point Bafta1 brought up the idea of being intimidated by people you find attractive. I think that happens to a lot of people and keeps them from dating "their type" but again, it is something that should probably be overcome for the sake of everyone. Otherwise, the relationships will just be difficult down the road. And it's not fair to other people or yourself to "settle" for them. But that's just my opinion.

And I did it again, I wrote an epic anyway. Really guys, just tell me to shut up already.:doh:


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## liz (di-va) (Mar 7, 2008)

I think....that there are broader generalizations to be drawn, also parallels with other populations, but there are definitely some specifics to the fat/FA experience to be articulated here, which seems like the point (at Dimensions, I mean--I mean, it's not a football board. Or a politics board.). After all, only a lucky few 8-10 dudes may get to marry Pamela Anderson, but if your preference is fat v. thin, then we're talkin about a fair smorgasbord of choices that are being ignored in favor of something else.

To my way of thinking and from my experience and some of the patterns of experience articulated here, I would say there _is_ a collection of social pressures that can keep people dating/committing to thinner women, pressures that aren't overtly negatively or prejudicial but kind of the side-effects from the above. Of course it's "easier." Not to marry a fatty, I mean. For some people. Theoretically. Maybe a smorgasbord or buffet is the right analogy--some people who really love smoked salmon may settle for carved beef and get full on that before they realize they can really have salmon or there is any. Or that you can even get a new plate and dine again!

In my own experience I can think of at least three men I've dated with strong SSBBW preferences who ended up marrying chubby/plumper-types (if that) and no, depressingly, from my POV, the SSBBW stuff didn't go away. In each case it was really hard not to get the impression of vague family/social pressures and an accepted/unquestioned ease about the situation contributing to their choice. Also, a soupcon of #3, too...a kind of (not malicious) otherness or separateness to the fatter women they dated, for whatever reason.

I don't think the point is to make dating fat women a litmus test....exactly. Not in the ideological purity sense. There's no way around the fact that I see what Rip's talkin about, but I also really don't know how common it is.

I also don't know how much it's changing. A 21-y-o person these days may have more sanctioned social room for life choices that don't look like everyone else's these days, it seems. Dunno.


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## Fascinita (Mar 7, 2008)

Mini said:


> What, fat women can't be intelligent?



Awwww... baby looking to be naughty? How cute. Maybe later, kiddo.


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## Zoner (Mar 7, 2008)

Okay, the following is _not_ intended as a sob story (i.e., I'm not one of those guys with a thin woman who wants to whine about it). It's just One Guy's Story, since the OP wanted some input on reasons why an FA would be with a thin woman.

Adolescence to Age 23 :
I'm not much of a girl chaser. While I certainly appreciate the appeal, only about 60% of my mental bandwidth is dedicated to the contemplation of boobs, buns, and pretty faces. As opposed to the apparent 98% my friends appear to allocate. So I don't actively pursue any kind of relationship, and consequently don't have one. But the 60% I do spend tends to be focused on the aforementioned parts primarily when they, and the surrounding real estate, happen to be infused with a healthy dose of fat.

Age 24:
Due to where I live and who I know, I happen to end up frequently in the company of a particular girl who is charming, adorable, and fat. I'm entranced. I win her affection, fall madly in love, and am awash in a tide of euphoria and lust. Over the next 8 months, I discover that I'm deeply invested in the relationship, and she appears to see it as something that just happened to conveniently fall in her lap, so she might as well use it. I decide that emotional pain really isn't my thing, so I terminate the relationship.

Age 25:
I get a first year tuition free scholarship to a college due to being dirt poor and having high ACT scores. At this college, a girl who is very thin and very pretty befriends me. I cognitively recognize that she's pretty, a conclusion which appears to be supported by the number of guys interested in her. But I don't feel the physical draw. I do however, value her as a friend. She's intelligent, and very independently minded. I just don't get into airheads or the June Cleaver type. When I have some interesting, innovative observation, she gets it. And adds to it. No one else seems to do this (male or female friends). We continue to be friends, and she becomes romantically drawn to me (yeah, I don't get it either), despite the absence of any overtures from my direction. It seems to me like I _should_ like her that way. We communicate well, we get each other, and we're both kind, decent people who treat each other well. I don't get this with anyone else. I really value her, but the romance or lust isn't there. 

Age 30:
Five years later, and I'm still with her, and still conflicted. Some sex, but not any really good sex. She's getting frustrated with me dragging my feet and not making a commitment. I _really_ don't want to lose the best friend I've ever had (there's never been even a distant second). So, through my detached, rational reasoning, I come to the most colossally stupid conclusion of my life. I reason thusly:

From what I'd read, that euphoric, in-love feeling lasts for about the first year or two of a relationship or marriage, after which it fades, leaving you with a placid, comfortable relationship. Love addicts jump from partner to partner, always seeking that initial buzz, and leaving before it comes to settling into a longterm, meaningful relationship. That being the case, that initial buzz doesn't seem to be all that important, and comprises a very small percentage of a lifetime partnership. So it doesn't seem like much of a basis on which to make a lifetime decision. After all, what really matters is being good friends.

Armed with this boneheaded hypothesis, I propose. And we marry.

Age 30 to 39:
We coexist rather peacefully, with little to no conflict. My sex drive dwindles. Hers increases. I discover that a troubled, anxiety-ridden adolescence had left her with a poor self image and a feeling of being repulsive. She has serious difficulty believing that anyone likes her (not just sexually, but friends, coworkers, my family, etc.), despite the fact that most who know her adore her. By my late 30's, she's craving a lot more sexual advances from me, but my sex drive has pretty much vanished. I make myself initiate things, but it's difficult to do consistently when you have zero desire. It's not like I'm lusting after anyone else; I just have no interest at all. We both conclude that there's something physically wrong with me (all the hardware works, but this complete lack of desire doesn't seem normal). Doctors and endocrinologists find nothing wrong.

Age 40 (present day):
She can't handle being sexually unfulfilled any more, and struggles with feelings of rejection because of my total absence of desire. I _really_ dislike hurting her (I always have), and my lack of drive is a continuous source of pain, despite being something I can't control. We get marriage counseling; it isn't enough. We finally conclude that we're causing each other more harm than good, and separate. It's a very amicable and mutual separation, with neither of us blaming the other for anything. And there's no children to be hurt by it. Despite the lack of physical connection, the separation is still, of course, painful. But after concluding that it's permanent, I gradually began to adjust, and start thinking about what my future will be. Do I want to stay single? Or should I start thinking about looking for someone? And suddenly, my sex drive returns in full force. I discover that I'm horny as hell.

This time around, I have no intention of getting involved with someone I don't feel that physical pull with. Yeah, I can, in fact, be taught.

So, anyway, OP, that's _one_ way it can happen.


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## SoVerySoft (Mar 7, 2008)

Wow, Zoner. Thank you so much for sharing. Beautifully written and heartfelt.


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## liz (di-va) (Mar 8, 2008)

Thanks for tellin your story, Zoner!


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## Fuzzy Necromancer (Mar 8, 2008)

Because people like to complain?


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 8, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> What's this exactly, ed? A medical term? Or just another way of saying "boys will be boys"?
> 
> Can we keep it real? I have a world of respect for you. An immense world of respect. But there's no such thing as "testosterone poisoning."
> 
> ...



I'm a single fat woman. Not everybody's cup of tea but I think I do okay in the looks department. I'm gainfully employed, intelligent, got a couple of neato talents, good sense of humor - I even like carnies!  So yeah, I'm pretty freakin' awesome BUT this does not mean I'm going to be compatible with every smart guy here or that every smart girl here is going to want to be my friend. There's more that goes into relationships than, "You fat, me FA." In one breath we get all up in arms at even the implication that fat is the primary factor that a man uses in choosing a mate and then in the next we get angry when it's not. There are plenty of cases where closet FA's are scared shitless into relationships that they know danged well they won't be happy in but I think it's naive to assume every FA who gets involved with a thin woman is guilty of this. Mitigating factors may have favored one relationship over another.


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## olwen (Mar 8, 2008)

No, we shouldn't have any sympathy for guys like that and Zoner's story is the reason why. He wasn't true to himself and wasted 15 years of his life and his ex-wife's life. (Sorry Zoner, but it's true) She could have been happy with someone else. He could have spent those 15 years with someone who would have excited and fulfilled him -someone fat, who would also have been happy. Those were 15 years he wouldn't have had to pretend. Years he will never get back. I have to wonder too why it took him 15 years to learn to be true to himself...

I have to wonder what he would have done if the situation were the other way around. What would have happened if he knew he wasn't attracted to BBW's and said girl was fat instead of thin. Would he still have married her? 

Ripley, the bs I have been thru with closeted FA's has taught me two things:
1. Sometimes - well most of the time men are emotionally immature well into their 50's (read stupid), and there's nothing to be done about it. Not that women aren't, but it's just different. Women can only hope to find the ones who aren't. (I have to believe it's easier than finding a needle in a haystack - truly.)

2. Just because you love someone doesn't mean that love will be strong enough and powerful enough to keep you from acting stupidly. In fact I've learned that love hardly seems to have any power at all when it comes to closeted FA's.

Anyway, I say again, NO, we should not have any sympathy of any kind for closeted FA jerks.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Mar 8, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> But there's no such thing as "testosterone poisoning."



Ohhhh yes there is, because I've had it! What Ed means, I think, is that every man has two heads, and sometimes he thinks with the little one instead of the big one. And as a young man, I very often did this...and I knew it. And this is why I sometimes hesitated to date BBW's. My immediate reaction to a big woman was total, electric lust, but I was just smart enough to realize that, while lust can fuel a one-night stand, a satisfying relationship demands a whole lot more. So when a woman made my heart beat fast and my breath come in gasps, I would force myself into a lower gear and take things slowly...to make sure it wasn't just my testosterone talking. And during that period I would often find that the lady and I really weren't compatible. On the whole, though, I remember dating women of various sizes in roughly equal numbers. Heck, I just like women.


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## Zoner (Mar 8, 2008)

olwen said:


> He wasn't true to himself and wasted 15 years of his life and his ex-wife's life. (Sorry Zoner, but it's true)


I absolutely agree. And no need to apologize; you said exactly what you thought, and I admire that.


> She could have been happy with someone else. He could have spent those 15 years with someone who would have excited and fulfilled him -someone fat, who would also have been happy. Those were 15 years he wouldn't have had to pretend. Years he will never get back.


I couldn't agree more, and I'm painfully aware of that. They weren't horrific years for either of us. We both learned from each other, grew, had some very good times, and enjoyed a close friendship. But they were wasted in the sense that we could have had a more fulfilling time with someone else. And that was my fault. I can deal with the 15 years from my life, but the 15 unfulfilled years I took from hers eats me from the inside out on a daily basis. It's the one thing that makes me hesitant to get involved with anyone. I'm paranoid about messing up someone else's life.


> I have to wonder too why it took him 15 years to learn to be true to himself...


Idealized commitment. Denial. Stupidity. I had convinced myself that sexuality wasn't a big deal for me. Love was more important to me (and still is, actually - only now I understand how important sex is in that). She wanted to be with me, even with the lukewarm level of passion from the beginning. We did genuinely love each other, and I cared for her deeply. I actually didn't understand why my sexuality had shut down (after some years), since I didn't feel that kind of attraction to anyone or anything anymore. It was just completely gone. I assumed it was biological, and that I wouldn't have that for anyone. It wasn't until after I let go of my commitment to her that I discovered I still have plenty of drive. And the lack of fulfillment for her didn't really make itself apparent (to either of us) for the first several years. She already had abandonment issues (before me), so until it became apparent that being with her was hurting her more than helping her, leaving my wife didn't feel like the noble thing to do.


> I have to wonder what he would have done if the situation were the other way around. What would have happened if he knew he wasn't attracted to BBW's and said girl was fat instead of thin. Would he still have married her?


If I had the same kind of friendship and mind connection that I had with my wife at that time? Absolutely. No question about it. (And it still would have been stupid and the wrong thing to do. But I've already covered that.)

Why wouldn't I have? It would have been the identical situation, only with the words "fat" and "thin" swapped. Unless you're suggesting that the real reason I married a thin woman is that I didn't want to be seen with someone fat. That is decidedly not the case. My first girlfriend was fat. I adored her, and I have to confess that I actually took her out places I wasn't really interested in going, just because I wanted people to see her with me (and yes, I realize now that that wasn't really being true to myself, either).

There was a fat girl at that college who I thought I liked, but when I got to talking with her, I discovered a room temperature IQ and the individuality of a lobotomized sheep. (One of the first things she told me was that she was going to see _Far and Away_ that night, and that she was really excited because Tom Cruise was in it.) And a couple more girls I showed an interest in, but it wasn't reciprocated. Hell, you seem sharp and independent; if you'd been there (and were 20-something 15 years ago), I probably would have asked you out. And maybe we'd be married with 3 kids now. Or maybe you'd have seen that I was nothing like what you were looking for, and blown me off. Who knows. Anyway, my point is that my marriage to a thin woman had nothing to do with not wanting to be "out of the closet". Not even close.

I gather from your post that you've been burned by some cowardly FA's who wouldn't really commit to being with a fat woman. If that is the case, I'm really sorry to hear that. You deserve _way_ better than that, and guys like that deserve no one.

But I get the distinct sense that you're suggesting that I'm one of those "closeted FA jerks." If that is, in fact, the case, I have to say that I deeply resent the implication.


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## SoVerySoft (Mar 8, 2008)

olwen said:


> No, we shouldn't have any sympathy for guys like that and Zoner's story is the reason why. He wasn't true to himself and wasted 15 years of his life and his ex-wife's life. (Sorry Zoner, but it's true) She could have been happy with someone else. He could have spent those 15 years with someone who would have excited and fulfilled him -someone fat, who would also have been happy. Those were 15 years he wouldn't have had to pretend. Years he will never get back. I have to wonder too why it took him 15 years to learn to be true to himself...



From what Zoner has told us, it doesn't sound like he could have known those years would be wasted (or really, if they even were. I say they weren't.)

It sounds like he thought long and hard about what was right for him way back when, and chose to commit to a relationship that was based on a connection that was stronger than anything he had experienced before. I'll bet a good percentage of people enter into marriages for reasons a lot less reasonable or well thought out. And some of those marriages work out, and some don't. 

People grow, people change, marriages sometimes fail. Even if the cause can be traced back to factors existing at the very beginning of the relationship, I don't think people should blame themselves. It doesn't necessarily mean they made poor decisions at the time or weren't true to themselves.


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## Tarella (Mar 8, 2008)

Hi everyone, 
I just wanted to say that this is a great thread with lots of great posts. I think that we should try and learn from one another rather than decide to not have any sympathy for those who make errors or misjudgments in their lives. I have tried hard to socialize my children to accept others and that beauty can be many many things, qualities, and physical characteristics. It seems to be the only way that I can personally change the world's prejudgement of others. 

If we just say, no, lets not have any sympathy/empathy for others, then how can we expect other parts of society to empathize with us and our trials and tribulations? I am sad that Zoner and his partner never found the IDEAL relationship, but I would say it sounds like they had a great friendship. How many people in life truly find the IDEAL relationship and total bliss? Not many, I would hazard to quess. The old addage of "It is better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all" says much to chew upon.

I think that many of life's problems stem from people not having the ability to value understanding differences and respecting differences. 

I also feel that sympathy isn't as healthy as empathy and correct me if I am wrong Olwen, maybe that is what you are meaning when you say don't sympathize with Zoner? Who says he wasted 15 years? Was she not an active person in that relationship? Could she not have had a share in the accountability for continuing or not continuing the relationship? I also feel that we should not condemn of judge others for the lives they lead. It is their life...their joys....their mistakes...no one knows the full truth in any relationship unless you live it.



olwen said:


> No, we shouldn't have any sympathy for guys like that and Zoner's story is the reason why. He wasn't true to himself and wasted 15 years of his life and his ex-wife's life. (Sorry Zoner, but it's true) She could have been happy with someone else. He could have spent those 15 years with someone who would have excited and fulfilled him -someone fat, who would also have been happy. Those were 15 years he wouldn't have had to pretend. Years he will never get back. I have to wonder too why it took him 15 years to learn to be true to himself...
> 
> I have to wonder what he would have done if the situation were the other way around. What would have happened if he knew he wasn't attracted to BBW's and said girl was fat instead of thin. Would he still have married her?
> 
> Anyway, I say again, NO, we should not have any sympathy of any kind for closeted FA jerks.



Zoner, thanks for sharing a personal look into your life. I hope you find happiness in whatever path your life takes you. Olwen, I hope you find happiness too.

Sincerely,

Tara


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## Zoner (Mar 8, 2008)

SoVerySoft said:


> From what Zoner has told us, it doesn't sound like he could have known those years would be wasted (or really, if they even were. I say they weren't.)
> 
> It sounds like he thought long and hard about what was right for him way back when, and chose to commit to a relationship that was based on a connection that was stronger than anything he had experienced before. I'll bet a good percentage of people enter into marriages for reasons a lot less reasonable or well thought out. And some of those marriages work out, and some don't.
> 
> People grow, people change, marriages sometimes fail. Even if the cause can be traced back to factors existing at the very beginning of the relationship, I don't think people should blame themselves. It doesn't necessarily mean they made poor decisions at the time or weren't true to themselves.


Thank you, SVS and Tarella. That means a lot to me. You're both very kind.

And olwen, I didn't mean to indicate anything personally against you in my response. I was just objecting to something that seemed to be implied. And I'd like to second the final statement in Tarella's post.

And not that it's relevant, but Tarella's profile pic is exercising my rediscovered hormones.


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## sweet&fat (Mar 8, 2008)

But jeez, how many whiny "I'm with a thin woman and I secretly want a fat one" or "I can't bear to tell my friends/family that I'm an FA" must we hear? 

When I first joined dimensions I had great compassion for these stories, because yes, our society is fat-phobic for everyone involved, but my patience has worn thin. I'm more and more convinced that some guys just don't want what they have and if they got what they thought they wanted, they wouldn't want that either.

Solution? See Just Jen's post above.

p.s. grrr!


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 8, 2008)

sweet&fat said:


> But jeez, how many whiny "I'm with a thin woman and I secretly want a fat one" or "I can't bear to tell my friends/family that I'm an FA" must we hear?
> 
> When I first joined dimensions I had great compassion for these stories, because yes, our society is fat-phobic for everyone involved, but my patience has worn thin. I'm more and more convinced that some guys just don't want what they have and if they got what they thought they wanted, they wouldn't want that either.
> 
> ...



I see your point, but I've also always believed there are more to these stories than we hear. Not that the posters are lying, but that they are focusing on a single aspect of their relationship when in truth things are probably a lot more complex. Maybe in some cases it really is a matter of a guy being so purely sexually hardwired towards BBW/SSBBW that he can not become sexually aroused otherwise, and he has partnered with the wrong person. But when relationships fail, or are failing, there are usually reasons beyond sexual attraction or lack thereof. And even when the sexual attraction isn't there, there may be reasons beyond size, even if that's a pretty easy thing on which to focus.

Many of us have found ourselves sexually attracted to somebody we thought was not our type. I recently dated a very skinny younger guy and the sex was beyond amazing. 

Also, if a relationship fails for some other reason or reason, and a person is looking outside, s/he will likely naturally start with whatever is most appealing. A close friend of mine has a fetish for older women; he's even said he is surprised he wound up married somebody his own age because he'd always dated older women. Their marriage has now failed for a combination of reasons having nothing to do with sexual desire. But now that he is looking for available women, he's saying things like "I want to find a hot older woman." But his marriage did not fail because he didn't marry somebody who fit his sexual ideal.


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## mossystate (Mar 8, 2008)

Sweet & Fat....rep...comin right up.


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## sweet&fat (Mar 8, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> I see your point, but I've also always believed there are more to these stories than we hear. Not that the posters are lying, but that they are focusing on a single aspect of their relationship when in truth things are probably a lot more complex. Maybe in some cases it really is a matter of a guy being so purely sexually hardwired towards BBW/SSBBW that he can not become sexually aroused otherwise, and he has partnered with the wrong person. But when relationships fail, or are failing, there are usually reasons beyond sexual attraction or lack thereof. And even when the sexual attraction isn't there, there may be reasons beyond size, even if that's a pretty easy thing on which to focus.
> 
> Many of us have found ourselves sexually attracted to somebody we thought was not our type. I recently dated a very skinny younger guy and the sex was beyond amazing.
> 
> Also, if a relationship fails for some other reason or reason, and a person is looking outside, s/he will likely naturally start with whatever is most appealing. A close friend of mine has a fetish for older women; he's even said he is surprised he wound up married somebody his own age because he'd always dated older women. Their marriage has now failed for a combination of reasons having nothing to do with sexual desire. But now that he is looking for available women, he's saying things like "I want to find a hot older woman." But his marriage did not fail because he didn't marry somebody who fit his sexual ideal.



I agree with you- I guess my quibble is the consistently present one to one comparison of an existing flesh-and-blood partner with some fantasy of a BBW/SSBBW, not real women. Not all cases, but certainly the most annoying ones!


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 8, 2008)

sweet&fat said:


> I agree with you- I guess my quibble is the consistently present one to one comparison of an existing flesh-and-blood partner with some fantasy of a BBW/SSBBW, not real women. Not all cases, but certainly the most annoying ones!



Oh, you're right. And in the cases where it may be true that *everything* is there with the sole exception 200 more pounds on the female, I always wonder if the guy has thought it through that even when he finds that SSBBW who will sexually fulfill him, she's not going to be the same person on the inside as what he has now. So i always hope these guys realize that all the things they do love and value and appreciate about the current partner are not going to be there anymore when she's gone.

I even sometimes wonder if X numbers of years into the new relationship, when problems start coming (as they always do) if he won't look back and think "Why did I let _______ get away?"


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 8, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> May as well get over the whole "what will people think" issue because if it's not one thing in life, it's another. People are going to pick something out to get on you about, so you may as well date who you want to date and be happy with it.



Exactly...and Thank You :bow: 



TallFatSue said:


> Methinx lotsa men love fat women but won't admit it due to peer pressure. Maybe I'm hopelessly vain, but I've noticed this sometime when we've had a short wait at a restaurant, and I've opted to stand (rather than sit in one of those comfy sofas stuffed with quicksand which swallow fat women). I've noticed more than a few men seated nearby try not to be too obvious as they eye my supersize assets and get, er, excited. It's funny when their skinny little wives get upset and hiss, "Stop staring at that fat bitch!" Cool, a middle-aged obese woman like me can still turn heads. Sometimes when I notice this, I rock back and forth on the balls of my feet to increase the jiggle factor (although my cover story is that it eases back strain when I just stand).



You know, I have thought of this lately after reading some of the threads about FAs. I suspect some men don't even realize they like/prefer thicker/heavier women.....and I also think more than 10% of the male population has this tendency (I have heard this statistic quoted a few times so that's why I'm running with it).
I have said before that I had thought I had "converted" a couple of ex-bf's but now that I think about it.....I think I simply could have been a "stepping stone" to where they really wanted to go...but just didn't know it yet 



TallFatSue said:


> With the right attitude, obesity can be liberating.



Oh how true 



ashmamma84 said:


> On the flip side, yes alot of fat women would like to date, but I don't really see it being dependent upon those (wo)men who don't have their acts together yet...because that's what I feel this is about. Growing up and not making apologies for who you are and what you do. I feel like focusing on those people exerts too much energy and unneccessary stress when I could be out trying to make a connection happen. And maybe it also just depends on if you have to have someone that self-identifies as an (F)FA? Dunno...



I want to play Devil's advocate myself now........ 



Oh how I love my hot man Satan :batting: 


You know I tend to agree with most everything Ripley posted but sought to think of another reason. I see FAs on this board also complain a lot about "lack of confidence". Does this play a role in why they might be with a thinner/chubby woman? Is the thinner woman more confident in accepting advances from men? More flirtatious/open/experienced? I haven't always been a "wall flower" even though I have been chubby to fat and back again since the onset of puberty. Why is this? I suspect it actually could be my way of being "open" or putting myself out there. I don't mind to be the lone voice in the room speaking out, or the person that cracks the joke in the dead silence. I get myself noticed....sometimes unintentionally p ). I talk to people easily and I'm very friendly. This probably goes a long way towards meeting new people. 
Don't know....just tossing something out there though basically I tend to agree with the status quo that it's silly to complain to a board full of fat women because you CHOSE to marry a thin one. 




LoveBHMS said:


> I know there is some difference of opinion here about "size acceptance" vs. "fat acceptance." When we see these posts, many of the responses are along the lines of "Hey, sexual attraction is important and you need to break up with her and be with somebody who excites you sexually." For those of us who favor size acceptance rather than fat acceptance, I wonder what the reaction would be to a man saying "I really love my wife but since she gained 150 pounds i'm just not hot for her anymore. I can't help the way I feel, she's a great person but the fat is a turnoff."
> 
> I'd be curious to see if there was a different ratio of "Dump her" to "Accept her as she is."





LoveBHMS said:


> It's an interesting thought process to work through.
> 
> At one point we had a discussion about something similar, and you pointed out that there is nothing "noble" about being an FA, it's just about your sexuality. It does not make you a better person any more than being thin/fat does.
> 
> ...





mfdoom said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Believe it or not, sexual attraction is not a relationship's be all - end all. It's possible to fall for someone you're not fucking. It seems like few people realize this?






Dr. P Marshall said:


> I think you've got it absolutely right Lilly. Time and change happen to everyone, so you can't base something just on physical attraction. Actually, sometimes you might not even be able to count on the personality you fell in love with either. People can get diseases or injuries or go through a depression, in other words, even the personality can change sometimes. I think that it makes sense to try to find someone who at the outset of a relationship fulfills as many of your dreams as possible, but a true committed relationship for the long term really has to be faced with the reality that, no matter what else happens, you won't be the same people at 80 that you are at 30 in many ways. Also, there are times when building a life together causes a couple to focus on so many other things that while sex is important, it might be less important for a time. I have heard this from every couple with a new born baby for example. Life tests you, it really does and I think more relationships would last if people thought ahead.




JFX....THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU to all three of you....sometimes I feel like I am beating my head against a wall when I try to make these points at other times/threads. :bow::bow:




LillyBBBW said:


> I agree but does anybody truly ever find the girl/guy of their dreams? Millions of married guys fap to Pemala Anderson. I think the question we have to ask ourselves is if my beloved changed would I still want to be with him/her? Maybe the definition of 'love' for a lot of people needs to change for those who are mistaking love for something it is not. Still thinking out loud.



I so totally agree with this, too. There will always be something to complain about in any relationship/marriage. You just have to weigh out (pun? ) what you are putting into it and what you are getting out of it.... and then decide if it's worth it. 
Funny, whatever love I have felt or gotten has always seemed worth it to me...at least for a little while 



Mini said:


> Heh, you might as well ask why otherwise intelligent women date assholes and then bitch about it to their nice guy friends.



Touche....though this is a board full of fat people. It does seem ironic to come here and bitch about being hitched to a thin one when there are plenty of intelligent, beautiful, clever, wonderful, single fat people in the world. 




Dr. P Marshall said:


> I think any F/FA who feels that way should really think about this scenario:
> 
> Someone walks up to you and says, "Man, you are gorgeous. Everything I've ever dreamed about and you know what, you seem like you're a cool person too. I'd love to get to know you better, but here's the thing. I could never date you officially, or introduce you to my friends or family because, well, they wouldn't approve and honestly, I don't want to make waves with my family and friends. But maybe we could, you know see each other anyway, on the side. I just won't ever, ever date you officially. But really, I think you're amazing. You understand, right? Right? Oh, and you feel bad for me for being so conflicted too, right? Right?"




I actually fantasize about a person like this.....I fantasize about bitch slapping them  





SoVerySoft said:


> Wow, Zoner. Thank you so much for sharing. Beautifully written and heartfelt.





I concur...Thanks Zoner. Reading your story helped to give some insight that was probably needed around here


----------



## olwen (Mar 9, 2008)

Zoner said:


> I absolutely agree. And no need to apologize; you said exactly what you thought, and I admire that.
> 
> I couldn't agree more, and I'm painfully aware of that. They weren't horrific years for either of us. We both learned from each other, grew, had some very good times, and enjoyed a close friendship. But they were wasted in the sense that we could have had a more fulfilling time with someone else. And that was my fault. I can deal with the 15 years from my life, but the 15 unfulfilled years I took from hers eats me from the inside out on a daily basis. It's the one thing that makes me hesitant to get involved with anyone. I'm paranoid about messing up someone else's life.
> 
> ...



Oh my, no, I wasn't implying that you were closeted...That thought passed into my brain and I verbalized it. But you answered the question in the way I thought and hoped you would. I probably should have worded it differently...but I'm sorry if I offended you.


----------



## Zoner (Mar 9, 2008)

olwen said:


> Oh my, no, I wasn't implying that you were closeted...That thought passed into my brain and I verbalized it. But you answered the question in the way I thought and hoped you would. I probably should have worded it differently...but I'm sorry if I offended you.


Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. I was a little too touchy and jumped to some inaccurate conclusions (sorry 'bout that! ).

So we're good, then?


----------



## olwen (Mar 9, 2008)

Zoner said:


> Okay. Thank you for clarifying that. I was a little too touchy and jumped to some inaccurate conclusions (sorry 'bout that! ).
> 
> So we're good, then?



I have a tendency to be brutally honest. Sometimes I'm praised and sometimes it gets me into trouble. Clearly self-editing is something I have to work on. But, dude, we're good.


----------



## ashmamma84 (Mar 9, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You know I tend to agree with most everything Ripley posted but sought to think of another reason. I see FAs on this board also complain a lot about "lack of confidence". Does this play a role in why they might be with a thinner/chubby woman? Is the thinner woman more confident in accepting advances from men? More flirtatious/open/experienced? I haven't always been a "wall flower" even though I have been chubby to fat and back again since the onset of puberty. Why is this? I suspect it actually could be my way of being "open" or putting myself out there. I don't mind to be the lone voice in the room speaking out, or the person that cracks the joke in the dead silence. I get myself noticed....sometimes unintentionally p ). I talk to people easily and I'm very friendly. This probably goes a long way towards meeting new people.
> Don't know....just tossing something out there though basically I tend to agree with the status quo that it's silly to complain to a board full of fat women because you CHOSE to marry a thin one.



I think that might be a part of this complicated issue -- I have some fat girlfriends and more than a few of them are really down on themselves...and I don't just mean, shy around people, but that they really don't do well with compliments and they hate to be noticed. It's sad because they've driven away some really great guys, who only wanted to get to know them better...yet, the blaring insecurities continued to get in the way. 

One friend in particular, I think, purposely dresses the way she does to keep men at bay. And it bothers me for her -- she's absolutely gorgeous, but just doesn't see it...her intrinsic worth/value as a woman, as a human being. We've talked about it and I always say that what you think and how you really feel about yourself...it's what you manifest in your life. She doesn't believe she's attractive and she doesn't believe she deserves love and happiness and quite possibly it's the reason she ends up with losers.

I really believe that a person's energy is powerful -- it has the capacity to draw people that are wonderful and interesting or those who you wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.


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## tonynyc (Mar 9, 2008)

why order a hamburger when you can have filet mignon...


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## Smite (Mar 9, 2008)

That's an awesome analogy.


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## mossystate (Mar 9, 2008)

I have always been filet mignon, no matter my size....well, except the fact that I have never referred to myself as a piece of meat


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## tonynyc (Mar 9, 2008)

Well Mossy:
I'd have to thank the late Jazz star -Louis Armstrong- for this quote;but, how about this analogy... 

Why have a finger sandwich when you can have a Rueben! 




mossystate said:


> I have always been filet mignon, no matter my size....well, except the fact that I have never referred to myself as a piece of meat


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## Santaclear (Mar 9, 2008)

Why date a minnow when you can have the whole whale?


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## Shosh (Mar 9, 2008)

tonynyc said:


> why order a hamburger when you can have filet mignon...




Why just have any old Tom, Dick, or Harry, when you could have a Tony?

Hope you are well cookie.


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## tonynyc (Mar 9, 2008)

LMAOF - you are such a sweetie :wubu: :wubu: :wubu:
- thanks 



Susannah said:


> Why just have any old Tom, Dick, or Harry, when you could have a Tony?
> 
> Hope you are well cookie.


----------



## Santaclear (Mar 10, 2008)

Why settle for flurries when you can get the whole snowstorm?


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## Fascinita (Mar 10, 2008)

Santaclear said:


> Why settle for snow flurries when you can get the whole blizzard?



Why settle for being William Kennedy Smith, when you can be Ted Bundy?!

Yeah  Dream big.


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## tonynyc (Mar 10, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Why settle for being William Kennedy Smith, when you can be Ted Bundy?!
> 
> Yeah  Dream big.



*The Criminals *



Santaclear said:


> Why date a minnow when you can have the whole whale?



*The Animals*



Santaclear said:


> Why settle for flurries when you can get the whole snowstorm?



*The Elements *

This is pretty cool I like these analogies


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## furious styles (Mar 10, 2008)

I actually would probably prefer the hamburger to the filet mignon. 

I simply have a taste for the finer things in life .. I'm rather upper class high society .. (god's gift to ballroom notoriety).


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## Jes (Mar 10, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> I suspect some of has to do with just the unpredictability of life. But the pattern is so persistent, that it feels like there's more than just chance involved. If so many men are choosing thin partners when they would rather have fat partners, can we say that there isn't something "hinky" there?
> 
> .



I think it might at times have to do with keeping the chase element of the physical/sexual relationship alive over the months/years. For some, it might be the fact that it might feel good, and powerful, and savior-y to be able to say: so what if the world says you're ugly, *I* think you're beautiful! I'm not even saying that it's the control aspect (don't leave me! no one else thinks you're hot!) at work there, but perhaps the 'I'm important to you because I think this way' thing (sort of like the new convert. Ever notice how some people who proselytize feel very important? they've seen the light!). It's a way of being different and special and unique. In a world where we have precious few chances to feel that, it must be incredibly powerful. So yes. I think there's something hinky, for sure.


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## Jes (Mar 10, 2008)

Mini said:


> Heh, you might as well ask why otherwise intelligent women date assholes and then bitch about it to their nice guy friends.



we might! make your own thread, mini.


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## Jes (Mar 10, 2008)

bigsexy920 said:


> Everyone has there reasons for things but I have a hard time with men that do this Rip - What I dislike even more is they say things like well its hard to find a confident BBW blah blah blah - WELL jeeze yah think - constantly being put down for our weight and then the men that "love" us do the even more damage by denying us and the fact that they are attracted to us.
> 
> So when you guys - and you know who you are trying talking to me and you are married to a thin woman but she dosent do it for ya - I just want to say Im sorry if Ive been rude - but I dont want to hear it.



What I always find fascinating is how guys say/post things about loving big wide calves or fat little hands or whatever, and wanting to pay us those compliments b/c they hope we know someone DOES like us but they're married to skinny women and just feel bad they can't show us how they feel (I remember a lot of posts on usenet from a guy married to a thinner woman who just LOVED fat, wide, white calves. And he wanted to be sure we knew how sexy they were and he wanted to pay us that compliment). Uh... hmmn. You know what I feel complimented by? When a guy says: hey, i like you and want to take you on a date. 

Hey I like your shape and want you to know that even though i'm in no position to do anything about it b/c I'm married but hey, don't you feel good now? Not a compliment.


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## TallFatSue (Mar 10, 2008)

Mini said:


> Heh, you might as well ask why otherwise intelligent women date assholes and then bitch about it to their nice guy friends.


Yup, I've seen this happen far too often. It's amazing how often people torpedo their own relationships. Maybe it's a combination of peer pressure ("I love this fat woman, but what will my friends / relatives / etc. think?") and the fat woman sending out negative vibes ("He's a sweet guy, but I don't deserve him.")? I remember one former friend about 20 years ago who would have been such a nice catch for some lucky guy. Some men were interested in her, but *she* didn't think she deserved any of them simply because she was fat. Maybe she thought they would run away when they suddenly discovered she was fat. One fine day she introduced me to her fiancé, and he was a complete horse's ass. When I tried to warn her about him, she gave me a combination of "Oh you're jealous" and "You just don't like him." No, honestly, he's a complete jackass. She refused to speak to me ever again, and they lived unhappily ever after. Last I heard they were teetering on bankruptcy because he can't hold a job and he ran up all kinds of debts. His only saving grace is he's not a wife beater. 


TallFatSue said:


> But ya know, it's not merely a matter of fat and thin. People make all sorts of decisions for the wrong reasons, swayed by what they *think* others will think, by advertising, by the media etc. At my 25th and 30th high school class reunion were a man and a woman from my class who really should have married each other, but didn't because their familes didn't think he or she was "good enough" for whatever silly reasons. So they each caved in, married someone else, and groused almost continually about their spouses, who didn't come to the reunions.


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 10, 2008)

Jes said:


> I think it might at times have to do with keeping the chase element of the physical/sexual relationship alive over the months/years. For some, it might be the fact that it might feel good, and powerful, and savior-y to be able to say: so what if the world says you're ugly, *I* think you're beautiful! I'm not even saying that it's the control aspect (don't leave me! no one else thinks you're hot!) at work there, but perhaps the 'I'm important to you because I think this way' thing (sort of like the new convert. Ever notice how some people who proselytize feel very important? they've seen the light!). It's a way of being different and special and unique. In a world where we have precious few chances to feel that, it must be incredibly powerful. So yes. I think there's something hinky, for sure.



The only issue I have with alot of theories is that it seems to overestimate the intelligence behind being an FA. I just can't wrap my mind around somebody thinking, "Okay, what I'm going to do is THIS: ___________________. The next time I see somebody who meets this criteria I'm going to take them with me so I can have what I need in life." There seems to be too much work and premeditation involved and I don't know too many people who are so 'all that' that they can create the domain of their lives exactly as they wish. You can have an approach in life, an approach is good, but things don't often go according to plan otherwise. Most of us aren't spinning the world exactly as we designed when we were 8, we're dealing with the hand we've been dealt. Life is strange like that. 

Okay, you're sitting in a crowded room and in walks some hot guy. Are you going to go over and flirt with him? Probably not but Fancy Nancy in the size 4 Pantsy is on her way over there. He's an FA but nobody else will talk to him and all the size 22 girls won't look him in the eye and respond politely giving no sign of blatant interest. The odds... I dunno, there's certainly validity to all arguments but I'm not sure it's as strong a common denominator as a lot of us envision.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 10, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> The only issue I have with alot of theories is that it seems to overestimate the intelligence behind being an FA. I just can't wrap my mind around somebody thinking, "Okay, what I'm going to do is THIS: ___________________. The next time I see somebody who meets this criteria I'm going to take them with me so I can have what I need in life." There seems to be too much work and premeditation involved and I don't know too many people who are so 'all that' that they can create the domain of their lives exactly as they wish. You can have an approach in life, an approach is good, but things don't often go according to plan otherwise. Most of us aren't spinning the world exactly as we designed when we were 8, we're dealing with the hand we've been dealt. Life is strange like that.
> 
> Okay, you're sitting in a crowded room and in walks some hot guy. Are you going to go over and flirt with him? Probably not but Fancy Nancy in the size 4 Pantsy is on her way over there. He's an FA but nobody else will talk to him and all the size 22 girls won't look him in the eye and respond politely giving no sign of blatant interest. The odds... I dunno, there's certainly validity to all arguments but I'm not sure it's as strong a common denominator as a lot of us envision.



Because i'd hope that if he's an FA that he'd:

1. Give the size 4 a polite brush off and not waste her time.

2. Have the sense to know that maybe a size 22 would be a little shy or nervous b/c she's been told her whole life she's not as hot as the size 4 and maybe be a little proactive in his approach? Aren't men supposed to be the pursuers?


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 10, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Because i'd hope that if he's an FA that he'd:
> 
> 1. Give the size 4 a polite brush off and not waste her time.
> 
> 2. Have the sense to know that maybe a size 22 would be a little shy or nervous b/c she's been told her whole life she's not as hot as the size 4 and maybe be a little proactive in his approach? Aren't men supposed to be the pursuers?



I am not certain every guy, even some of the hot ones, are going to walk into a room and assume that the only reason 'Rita' isn't showing interest is because she is shy, unenlightened or misinformed. People are going to deal with what is presented. If someone says hello you say hello back. If he's interesting you'll be interested. You're not going to flick anyone away and say, "Ewww, skinny person!!" and claw your way over to the fat girl who is avoiding eye contact. I think we give men in general too much credit. Not sure if I'm making sense.

EDITED TO ADD: I mean, I know men who ARE like that and nobody likes them. They won't even bother talking to anyone under a size 26 and hound fat women relentlessly thinking he is the white savior of the BBW world and she merely needs convincing. Seriously, hardly anybody is like that save for the few examples I know of.


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## Jes (Mar 10, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> The only issue I have with alot of theories is that it seems to overestimate the intelligence behind being an FA. I just can't wrap my mind around somebody thinking, "Okay, what I'm going to do is THIS: ___________________. The next time I see somebody who meets this criteria I'm going to take them with me so I can have what I need in life." There seems to be too much work and premeditation involved and I don't know too many people who are so 'all that' that they can create the domain of their lives exactly as they wish. You can have an approach in life, an approach is good, but things don't often go according to plan otherwise. Most of us aren't spinning the world exactly as we designed when we were 8, we're dealing with the hand we've been dealt. Life is strange like that.
> 
> Okay, you're sitting in a crowded room and in walks some hot guy. Are you going to go over and flirt with him? Probably not but Fancy Nancy in the size 4 Pantsy is on her way over there. He's an FA but nobody else will talk to him and all the size 22 girls won't look him in the eye and respond politely giving no sign of blatant interest. The odds... I dunno, there's certainly validity to all arguments but I'm not sure it's as strong a common denominator as a lot of us envision.



i'm not saying these things are explicit. if we're discussing reasons behind things then that implies there ARE reasons. I believe there are. Whether we're aware of them at all times or whether we use them to sit and ponder and then make a decision, i don't think so. I'm not arguing we do. Many things are subconscious but I do believe something is going on. it's not happenstance in every way.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 10, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> I am not certain every guy, even some of the hot ones, are going to walk into a room and assume that the only reason 'Rita' isn't showing interest is because she is shy, unenlightened or misinformed. People are going to deal with what is presented. If someone says hello you say hello back. If he's interesting you'll be interested. You're not going to flick anyone away and say, "Ewww, skinny person!!" and claw your way over to the fat girl who is avoiding eye contact. I think we give men in general too much credit. Not sure if I'm making sense.



No, but I mean...as an FFA I'm pretty aware that some of the guys I think are hot might not think of themselves as hot or might be shy. The past 2 fat guys I've gone out with were both super sexy, but each of them said, in pretty much these exact words, "I've never thought of myself as hot."

I'm not saying he shouldn't give the skinny person a chance, but if he's an FA and there's a room full of size 22's, maybe he should at least try and not just take a dive on it and say "Well, there were plenty of fat girls around, and i like fat girls, but it might have taken some effort on my part which is why I'm now dating a size 4 and posting on Dims about how unhappy I am."


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 10, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> No, but I mean...as an FFA I'm pretty aware that some of the guys I think are hot might not think of themselves as hot or might be shy. The past 2 fat guys I've gone out with were both super sexy, but each of them said, in pretty much these exact words, "I've never thought of myself as hot."
> 
> I'm not saying he shouldn't give the skinny person a chance, but if he's an FA and there's a room full of size 22's, maybe he should at least try and not just take a dive on it and say "Well, there were plenty of fat girls around, and i like fat girls, but it might have taken some effort on my part which is why I'm now dating a size 4 and posting on Dims about how unhappy I am."



I understand. I just imagine that it's a little different if you're a man. He approaches a woman he finds attractive and she doesn't respond to his subtle charm... I guess in my experience it's always the wrong guys who lean in closer and try to be more convincing. The others prefer to spend their time with people who actualy enjoy their company and much later in the night I'm slapping my forhead becuase it finally dawns on me the guy was hitting on me. I'm not shooting down anyone else's theories, just thinking out loud.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 10, 2008)

I guess it comes down to each of them being confident in their attractiveness and aware of what they're looking for.

I guess you can't expect the guy to knock himself out if the size 22's he's craving are all looking downward and not being responsive to his subtle charms. It does seem like a lot of women on here have had retroactive "aha" moments where they say "Oh, yeah. That guy was flirting."

Then again, i'm sure for however many guys you've slapped your forehead over at the end of the evening, there have been an equal number where you've clearly said "I'm not interested" and he persisted.


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## Littleghost (Mar 10, 2008)

I'd post on this thread, but as a single FA that has no interest in anyone outside my compatibility, I'd break the trend.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Mar 10, 2008)

I need to ask this.

Haven't we had threads saying fat women don't want a man who only likes fat women? So now, if a guy likes both fat and skinny chicks - that's not OK either??

I'm glad I'm married. The dating world is oo confusing for me.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 10, 2008)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I need to ask this.
> 
> Haven't we had threads saying fat women don't want a man who only likes fat women? So now, if a guy likes both fat and skinny chicks - that's not OK either??
> 
> I'm glad I'm married. The dating world is oo confusing for me.



I think what Lilly and others were referring to was not men who like both fat and thin women, but situations in which men who prefer fat women wind up with thin ones through their own action or inaction. It seems there is less frustration regarding men who like all sizes, and more towards men who express a preference for fat women but for some reason don't pursue them.


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## ashmamma84 (Mar 10, 2008)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I need to ask this.
> 
> Haven't we had threads saying fat women don't want a man who only likes fat women? So now, if a guy likes both fat and skinny chicks - that's not OK either??
> 
> I'm glad I'm married. The dating world is oo confusing for me.



No, I don't think that's it, really -- this isn't about liking skinny and fat women...this is about a guy saying that he's with a skinny woman, but isn't truly attracted to her because he really digs fat chicks but is denying it. It would be different if he liked both, because then he wouldn't be posting about being partnered with a woman that he really isn't into. 


To me, there's nothing wrong with a person being attracted to different body types; the trouble comes in when said person is solely attracted to fat women, yet enters into a relationship with a thin woman, knowing that she doesn't really "do it" for him.

ETA -- yeah, what Loves said.


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 10, 2008)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I need to ask this.
> 
> Haven't we had threads saying fat women don't want a man who only likes fat women? So now, if a guy likes both fat and skinny chicks - that's not OK either??
> 
> I'm glad I'm married. The dating world is oo confusing for me.



I'm one of the weird ones who actually wants a guy who prefers fat women exclusivey. The problem is when guys like this run of and marry thin women then whine about how they don't want to have sex with her. It's like a woman married to an abusiive husband who complains all the time about how he beats her and cheats on her but she won't grab the cat and get out. 

Now we're playing analyst and trying to figure them out. Wanna play?


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Mar 10, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> Now we're playing analyst and trying to figure them out. Wanna play?



No,, but thanks for asking. I have enough trouble figuring myself out! LOL


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## Miss Vickie (Mar 10, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> I'm one of the weird ones who actually wants a guy who prefers fat women exclusivey. The problem is when guys like this run of and marry thin women then whine about how they don't want to have sex with her. It's like a woman married to an abusiive husband who complains all the time about how he beats her and cheats on her but she won't grab the cat and get out.
> 
> Now we're playing analyst and trying to figure them out. Wanna play?



Makes sense. What I don't understand are the guys (and probably women as well) who turn up their nose at perfectly good fat women (and men!) and want to make their own. The whole "how can I make her gain against her will" kind of thing. I mean, it's not as though fat chicks are in short supply, particularly around here. We have a veritable plethora  of gorgeous, talented, wickedly smart (and just plain wicked) women who are single and available. So what gives? I don't get it.

I think in general it's a bad idea to marry/date someone whose size/interests/personality aren't what you want. Most of the time when people do this, they either have a "settling" mentality or else set out to change the person into who they want to be. That's just so patently unfair, and yet I see it and hear about it among my friends all the time.

I think you gotta take your sweetie, warts and all, whatever size they are, whatever crazy hair style they may have and love them just that way. You can't hope to change them. You're just asking to be unhappy -- and worse, make them unhappy as well.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 10, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> I'm one of the weird ones who actually wants a guy who prefers fat women exclusivey. The problem is when guys like this run of and marry thin women then whine about how they don't want to have sex with her. It's like a woman married to an abusiive husband who complains all the time about how he beats her and cheats on her but she won't grab the cat and get out.
> 
> Now we're playing analyst and trying to figure them out. Wanna play?



I'll play. 

I don't think this is exclusive to men partnering with thin women when they're attracted to fat women.

I honestly believe that men are often conditioned to believe there are certain qualities you look for in a life partner, and that sexual compatibility is not one of them. I think men who complain about not getting blow jobs after marriage or that their wives don't take care of themselves or are not interested in sex are just men who married the wrong women. 

Men are conditioned to believe there are the "girls you date and girls you marry" and the two are different. You marry somebody who'd make a good mother, who is of "good character", similar values, same religion, garners family approval, etc. Many guys simply don't allow themselves to make "sexual attraction" an important thing to look for.

Edited to respond to this:



> The whole "how can I make her gain against her will" kind of thing. I mean, it's not as though fat chicks are in short supply, particularly around here. We have a veritable plethora of gorgeous, talented, wickedly smart (and just plain wicked) women who are single and available. So what gives? I don't get it.



For some people, it's the gaining _itself_ that is hot. It's not the fact of wanting a fat woman, it's the process of watching her gain and or participating in it. It's a sexual fetish and honestly, if you don't have it there isn't any way to explain it. I have feet but I don't "get" foot fetishes.


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## Jes (Mar 10, 2008)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I need to ask this.
> 
> Haven't we had threads saying fat women don't want a man who only likes fat women? So now, if a guy likes both fat and skinny chicks - that's not OK either??
> 
> I'm glad I'm married. The dating world is oo confusing for me.



Luckily for us, not every fat woman acts the same, not every FA acts the same, etc. etc. 

But there are most certainly trends, and talking about them here, at a fat acceptance board, seems an appropriate place.


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 10, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> I'll play.
> 
> I don't think this is exclusive to men partnering with thin women when they're attracted to fat women.
> 
> ...



I agree. A few times I've heard men come here and say how they fantasize about a woman who is 'XXX' weight but will only actualy bring home someone who is 'Xx' at most. I've had to confront this kind of thinking a few times myself. 




LoveBHMS said:


> Edited to respond to this:
> 
> 
> 
> For some people, it's the gaining _itself_ that is hot. It's not the fact of wanting a fat woman, it's the process of watching her gain and or participating in it. It's a sexual fetish and honestly, if you don't have it there isn't any way to explain it. I have feet but I don't "get" foot fetishes.



There is a signifigant percentage of men who prefer thin women who will get fat than women who are already fat and gaining. I often wonder what these fellas will do once their woman gets fat? Will they lose interest? It's an odd kink that rarely comes to fruition.


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## Jes (Mar 10, 2008)

Miss Vickie said:


> The whole "how can I make her gain against her will" kind of thing. I mean, it's not as though fat chicks are in short supply, particularly around here. .



You've hit the nail on the head, Vickie. It's about growing their own. And I don't mean pot. It's about growing.their.own. And everything that comes with that. 

And the problem with that is that it seems elusive and probably very rarely really works out. It's like setting up something and then making an instrinsic part of that something that can't work out. Like...uh.... Me saying the only way I'll ever be happy is if I marry a unicorn. But, of course, unicorns don't exist. but now I'm ggoing to not accept that, and keep looking for the unicorn. and being sad. and telling you all about it.

N.B., tradionally, unicorns can be captured by a virgin (paging Dr. Freud!), but even there, if they exist, i'm shit outta luck.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 10, 2008)

> There is a signifigant percentage of men who prefer thin women who will get fat than women who are already fat and gaining. I often wonder what these fellas will do once their woman gets fat? Will they lose interest? It's an odd kink that rarely comes to fruition.



I think there is an element of sexual sadism in it, and I mean sadism purely in a sexual way, not that these guys are bad people or want harm to come to their partners. It's partly the idea of a differential, if you will, between what the woman wants or has tried to achieve with her body (working out, eating rabbit food) and the man's very strong sexual desires. It's the contrast between "what she was" before and "what she changed into."

A lot of fetishism has those same elements. If you read smoking fetish fiction, a lot of it works along the same lines as weight gain fiction. i.e. A female protagonist who is fit/healthy/athletic who starts smoking and by the end can no longer run track or swim or do the things she once did, all for the strong desire to smoke.

Or just plain garden variety "Story of O" type of S and M typically has a theme of a woman undergoing a tranformation from being herself to being totally subjugated to a man.


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## MissToodles (Mar 10, 2008)

Jes said:


> You've hit the nail on the head, Vickie. It's about growing their own. And I don't mean pot. It's about growing.their.own. And everything that comes with that.
> 
> And the problem with that is that it seems elusive and probably very rarely really works out. It's like setting up something and then making an instrinsic part of that something that can't work out. Like...uh.... Me saying the only way I'll ever be happy is if I marry a unicorn. But, of course, unicorns don't exist. but now I'm ggoing to not accept that, and keep looking for the unicorn. and being sad. and telling you all about it.
> 
> N.B., tradionally, unicorns can be captured by a virgin (paging Dr. Freud!), but even there, if they exist, i'm shit outta luck.



It's a way of avoiding intimacy, constantly setting yourself up for such an ideal. There are so many Pygmalions on this board, but the women are not statues and you can't mold someone to your will.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 10, 2008)

MissToodles said:


> It's a way of avoiding intimacy, constantly setting yourself up for such an ideal. There are so many Pygmalions on this board, but the women are not statues and you can't mold someone to your will.



I can't speak for all men or women, but I can say that this is not always the case any more than a person who is sexually aroused by S&M secretly hates the opposite sex or would engage in domestic violence.

In many cases, it's a sexual kink and nothing more. That's why it's called "erotic" weight gain.


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## MadeFA (Mar 10, 2008)

I tried it because I did not want to be shallow... 

I realized though, that I am not being shallow. I know what physical appearences and actions turn me, and I choose to seek those in a partner. I think this is the best thing because good relationships are physically and mentally fullfiling. 

As for FA's that go after thin women and complain about it... when it happened to me, I was too young to realize how important the mental attraction of a relationship is. 

I will not do it again because I don't want to love a person and mentally betray by thinking about how I'd like them to gain 5, 10, or 50 lbs... or how great it would be if she prefered ice cream to the gym.


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## Ample Pie (Mar 10, 2008)

Overall, I don't care who anyone dates. I'm not about to set down rules on who should date whom and why. BUT if you pick someone to date or marry, then go complain about it when it was your choice, well I have no sympathy and, in fact, none is deserved.



LoveBHMS said:


> I can't speak for all men or women, but I can say that this is not always the case any more than a person who is sexually aroused by S&M secretly hates the opposite sex or would engage in domestic violence.
> 
> In many cases, it's a sexual kink and nothing more. That's why it's called "erotic" weight gain.



I dunno about this...There are an AWFUL lot of guys on this board and in the *cough* scene who want to make a woman fat rather than date a fat woman.

Seen it hundreds of times.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 10, 2008)

Rebecca said:


> Overall, I don't care who anyone dates. I'm not about to set down rules on who should date whom and why. BUT if you pick someone to date or marry, then go complain about it when it was your choice, well I have no sympathy and, in fact, none is deserved.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's it's the "making" that turns them on, not the idea of being with a fat woman. It's the process.


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## Zoner (Mar 10, 2008)

Mini said:


> Heh, you might as well ask why otherwise intelligent women date assholes and then bitch about it to their nice guy friends.


Mmmm... some parallels there, but some differences. I think that generally, those women feel more attracted to said assholes on a primal level, but then don't like dealing with the accompanying poor character. It's the "hot, or nice?" dilemma - a fairly clear cake having-and-eating kinda thing.

The question asked here is why a guy would choose someone they're actually _less_ attracted to, over someone they're more attracted to (and potentially nice, too). And then whine about it.

As far as why a guy would make that choice in the first place, there is a large array of different reasons, many of which are being discussed here. As far as why he would have the balls to then come here and complain about it... Well, on that one I have no clue. I'm wondering if some of these guys think they'll be seen as being noble, or something, for being an FA, that they'll get sympathy and support on the merit of that. I'd wager that none of these guys are whining about this to any of their non-fat or non-FA friends.



LoveBHMS said:


> I honestly believe that men are often conditioned to believe there are certain qualities you look for in a life partner, and that sexual compatibility is not one of them. I think men who complain about not getting blow jobs after marriage or that their wives don't take care of themselves or are not interested in sex are just men who married the wrong women.
> 
> Men are conditioned to believe there are the "girls you date and girls you marry" and the two are different. You marry somebody who'd make a good mother, who is of "good character", similar values, same religion, garners family approval, etc. Many guys simply don't allow themselves to make "sexual attraction" an important thing to look for.


I think you're on to something there, and that might account for quite a bit. As shown in my novella in a previous post, I seriously underestimated the importance of sexual compatibility. That didn't specifically prevent me from marrying someone fat; in fact, if she had been fat and I was physically turned on by her, it sure wouldn't have taken me any 5 years to pop the question. But I was so focused on the problem of how some people marry someone they don't even know just because they're hot for them, then find out too late about all the personality and value clashes, that I went to the opposite extreme and put almost no weight on sexual compatibility.

I wasn't affected by the "girls you date and girls you marry" thing, since those are one and the same to me (I don't bother dating someone if I've concluded up front that they couldn't be long-term material). But in general, yeah, I think that is a pretty prevalent cultural value.


I almost wonder if some guys who happen to be attracted to fatter women are so conditioned by societal norms that they think that their attraction is somehow abnormal (as we know, a _lot_ of people consider it a fetish). And on some level, they think that it's indulging some kind of unhealthy pathology or something.

Unfortunately, I suspect that a depressing proportion of it just comes down to peer pressure and social status issues - fear of the "fat stigma". I can't relate to that personally, because by nature I vehemently resist anything that tells me I'm supposed to be or do things in some way that's expected of me (I actually have to be careful I don't fall into being reverse-influenced by this). Google "INTP" and you'll learn all about me (i.e., I'm weird). But it will also tell you that INTP's account for about 1% of the population. Social pressure is a pretty powerful force for most people.


I have to agree with the comments about some women just not being receptive to attention from men. If a guy you think you might like engages you in conversation, or makes eye contact and smiles, or does any of those other things to initiate the back-and-forth, escalating, "I like you, do you like me?" process, you _do_ need to return his volley. Please give _some_ kind of indication that you're enjoying his attention, or at least try not to make it look like he's just bothering you. Personally, I'm pretty sensitive to feeling like I'm being an annoyance. Not a fear of rejection, so much; if you'd rather I weren't around you, that's fine. I just _really_ don't want to be that clueless guy that keeps bothering you and can't take a hint, and you roll your eyes after he's gone. If you don't respond positively, I respect that, and I won't bother you anymore.

Now, I'm sure most of the time if I get no response or the brush off, it's because the person really doesn't want to talk to me. But it does seem to happen more often with fat women than with thinner women, which, statistically, I find a little suspicious.


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## Jes (Mar 10, 2008)

Zoner said:


> As far as why a guy would make that choice in the first place, there is a large array of different reasons, many of which are being discussed here. As far as why he would have the balls to then come here and complain about it... Well, on that one I have no clue. I'm wondering if some of these guys think they'll be seen as being noble, or something, for being an FA, that they'll get sympathy and support on the merit of that. I'd wager that none of these guys are whining about this to any of their non-fat or non-FA friends.
> 
> .



Wow. That is some really amazing insight, Zoner. I'm glad to have read it. I think sometimes, people just explain things so well in ways I wouldn't have gotten no matter how long I thought about them.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Mar 10, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> I honestly believe that men are often conditioned to believe there are certain qualities you look for in a life partner, and that sexual compatibility is not one of them. I think men who complain about not getting blow jobs after marriage or that their wives don't take care of themselves or are not interested in sex are just men who married the wrong women.




I honestly laughed outloud at this. Do you seriously believe this???

After 15 years of marriage I don't want sex as ofyen as I did. I'm not into all night *fuck-fests* anymore. I'm not really interested in trying whips or chains or anything radical anymore. Blow jobs? It's up to him.

If you really believe that sex or sexuality should be the same 15 years or so into marriage as it was before you were married - stay single.

People change, sexual appetites change, physical abilities change. It doesn't mean HE married the wrong woman, it means they are growing, changing human beings.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 10, 2008)

I've always said I think there is an FA sort of continuum, and I think for some people it is a fetish. That isn't good or bad, it just is.

A lot of posters on here say they use the word fat because they find it to be a neutral, descriptive term no different from tall or short or blue eyed. 

Now it always makes sense to us when somebody posts, "I'm only really attracted to fat women." But if you look at the neutrality of that, then it would make equal sense if somebody said "I can *only* be fully sexually aroused by a woman who is petite. Once somebody is taller than 5'4 I just lose it. In fact, even 5'4 is pushing it, my ideal is 5'0. My girlfriend is great, but at 5'6 she's like an amazon to me and I am just not attracted to her the way I should be." And that sounds weird. As it would if you replaced "must be short" with "must have green eyes" or "must be Asian."


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## ripley (Mar 10, 2008)

Mini said:


> Heh, you might as well ask why otherwise intelligent women date assholes and then bitch about it to their nice guy friends.




I'd ask that very thing if she was doing her complaining on www.NiceGuysDON'TfinishLast!.com. 




LoveBHMS said:


> I guess it comes down to each of them being confident in their attractiveness and aware of what they're looking for.
> 
> I guess you can't expect the guy to knock himself out if the size 22's he's craving are all looking downward and not being responsive to his subtle charms. It does seem like a lot of women on here have had retroactive "aha" moments where they say "Oh, yeah. That guy was flirting."
> 
> Then again, i'm sure for however many guys you've slapped your forehead over at the end of the evening, there have been an equal number where you've clearly said "I'm not interested" and he persisted.





Zoner said:


> I have to agree with the comments about some women just not being receptive to attention from men. If a guy you think you might like engages you in conversation, or makes eye contact and smiles, or does any of those other things to initiate the back-and-forth, escalating, "I like you, do you like me?" process, you _do_ need to return his volley. Please give _some_ kind of indication that you're enjoying his attention, or at least try not to make it look like he's just bothering you. Personally, I'm pretty sensitive to feeling like I'm being an annoyance. Not a fear of rejection, so much; if you'd rather I weren't around you, that's fine. I just _really_ don't want to be that clueless guy that keeps bothering you and can't take a hint, and you roll your eyes about after he's gone. If you don't respond positively, I respect that, and I won't bother you anymore.




I believe you're both right, about the role confidence plays. And it irks me! I'm a ssbbw. I've been flirted with in real life so seldom that when it does happen, my first impulse is to run away, even if I've got a crush on the guy. I have no practice, no frame of reference...nothing. Basically, it's panic, lol.

How do I get the same amount of confidence the size 4 girl takes as her due? Do I just say to myself "Dims tells me the world is awash in FAs!" and approach random hottie? Do you realize what this would get me? More often than not there would be revulsion on his face, he'd be embarrassed that the fat girl was hitting on him, he'd ignore me, or even worse. I'm not made of that kind of iron, to risk that very often, if at all.

So yeah...in the FA/BBW world, I know that my body is desirable. I just don't know how to translate that to the world I live in every day.


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## altered states (Mar 10, 2008)

I think anyone who expects to fall in love with a checklist in his or her hand doesn't really understand the concept.


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## sweet&fat (Mar 10, 2008)

tres huevos said:


> I think anyone who expects to fall in love with a checklist in his or her hand doesn't really understand the concept.



You occupy a lovely universe, t.h.


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## Just_Jen (Mar 10, 2008)

tres huevos said:


> I think anyone who expects to fall in love with a checklist in his or her hand doesn't really understand the concept.



very true. a person can have all of the qualities on the checklist but it doesnt mean you'd fall in love with them. love choses people at random im sure!


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## altered states (Mar 10, 2008)

sweet&fat said:


> You occupy a lovely universe, t.h.



Are you being sarcastic?


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## superodalisque (Mar 10, 2008)

sometimes i wonder if some FAs come here and talk about a thin girlfriends to have something to hold over a fat girl's head. maybe some might be playing on a some fat women's insecurites and the feeling deep down that she might not be able to compete with a thin girl. some women still don't understand the attraction FAs have toward them and are here to learn but maybe aren't there yet. some unscrupulous fellows are known to try and use the threat of a thin and more acceptable girlfriend get a woman to accept things she might not feel comfortbale with ordinarily. or maybe they just hope to raise that competitive spirit that some girls have against the "skinny bitches" to their advantage. honestly, i think its a way of fishing about to see who is ripe to be misused by someone who is closeted.

whomever he is he is not a nice guy to come here and remind a BBW of how "unacceptable" she might be. 

i know there are some guys in the closet who are struggling. i try to be empathetic but it isn't easy. i see too much of the fallout among my BBW friends here. i'm not sure why a woman should have to suffer because of a man's weakness--and yes it is. we all have to make hard choices and go against the grain sometimes. but having said that, maybe there should be a private forum for those in the closet, or those who were in the closet. that way they can have a free discussion and be understood without being harrassed.


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## Zoner (Mar 10, 2008)

ripley said:


> I'd ask that very thing if she was doing her complaining on www.NiceGuysDON'TfinishLast!.com.


I'm deeply ashamed to admit that I actually tried following that link. :blush:


> I believe you're both right, about the role confidence plays. And it irks me! I'm a ssbbw. I've been flirted with in real life so seldom that when it does happen, my first impulse is to run away, even if I've got a crush on the guy. I have no practice, no frame of reference...nothing. Basically, it's panic, lol.
> 
> How do I get the same amount of confidence the size 4 girl takes as her due? Do I just say to myself "Dims tells me the world is awash in FAs!" and approach random hottie? Do you realize what this would get me? More often than not there would be revulsion on his face, he'd be embarrassed that the fat girl was hitting on him, he'd ignore me, or even worse. I'm not made of that kind of iron, to risk that very often, if at all.
> 
> So yeah...in the FA/BBW world, I know that my body is desirable. I just don't know how to translate that to the world I live in every day.


Yeah, that is difficult. I can relate, since I'm not generally brimming with confidence myself (though I think I'm better at it than I used to be). That's why I'm too quick to interpret ambiguous or neutral responses from a woman as "not interested."
The tragic thing is that if someone like me approaches someone like you, the chances of a mutual attraction being mutually recognized are pretty close to nil.
I think the most important thing to focus on is how you react when someone you like does indicate interest. The defensive impulse is to overtly act like you're specifically _not_ interested, because it feels threatening and vulnerable to show that you are. Looking nervous and uncomfortable has the chance of being interpreted positively (could even be endearing), and could boost the confidence of your pursuer to continue. But making a deliberate point of looking indifferent or even unhappy about it will never yield good results.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 10, 2008)

I am serious about this.

I would truly and honestly like to know what harassment FA's go through. I mean some of them make it sound tortuous.

Yes I read Vogue and I know what messages everyone gets from the media and I know women are trained to hate their bodies and all that. What I would honestly like to know is how godawful is it for a grown man to say "Yeah, I don't know why but I've always like fat women."

I mean, has anyone been disowned over this?
Had the family do an intervention?

Are men really facing going through some Stonewall like personal civil war if they want to date a 300 pound woman rather than a 100 pound one? Is it so bad that it's worth spending your *whole life* sexually unfulfilled?

As an FFA I get teased but really, it's not like "OMG, it's awful, I can never visit my mother because she harasses me over liking fat guys."


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## altered states (Mar 10, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> I am serious about this.
> 
> I would truly and honestly like to know what harassment FA's go through. I mean some of them make it sound tortuous.
> 
> ...



I think this is overblown, too. I dated two fat girls in high school before meeting my current not-so-fat girlfriend and never ran into any serious problems. I was most nervous about them with my mother, who's fairly fat-phobic, but she fell in love with one of them and criticized the other but for other reasons.... And my usually vicious friends for whatever reason gave me a pass on the entire "issue," beyond the mildest typical ribbing. 

Granted, these girls weren't "supersized," but this was a fairly wealthy school and they were among the fattest in their class(es). Perhaps a girl who was 400 pounds rather than 220 would have garnered me more shit.


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## sweet&fat (Mar 10, 2008)

tres huevos said:


> Are you being sarcastic?



not at all- i just thought it was a nice statement!


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## ripley (Mar 10, 2008)

Zoner said:


> I'm deeply ashamed to admit that I actually tried following that link. :blush:
> 
> Yeah, that is difficult. I can relate, since I'm not generally brimming with confidence myself (though I think I'm better at it than I used to be). That's why I'm too quick to interpret ambiguous or neutral responses from a woman as "not interested."
> *The tragic thing is that if someone like me approaches someone like you, the chances of a mutual attraction being mutually recognized are pretty close to nil.*
> I think the most important thing to focus on is how you react when someone you like does indicate interest. The defensive impulse is to overtly act like you're specifically _not_ interested, because it feels threatening and vulnerable to show that you are. Looking nervous and uncomfortable has the chance of being interpreted positively (could even be endearing), and could boost the confidence of your pursuer to continue. But making a deliberate point of looking indifferent or even unhappy about it will never yield good results.



 about the link. 

The part I put in bold makes me very sad.

I don't make a point of looking unhappy or indifferent...I doubt at that moment that I have the mental faculty to even form a plan, lol. It's more a fight-or-flight thing, and all I wanna do is fly, even though, if it's a guy I'm attracted to, I want to be with him.


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## Tina (Mar 10, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> There is a signifigant percentage of men who prefer thin women who will get fat than women who are already fat and gaining. I often wonder what these fellas will do once their woman gets fat? Will they lose interest? It's an odd kink that rarely comes to fruition.


Yes, I believe so in a number of cases. I've heard of several women who were left after they got 'too fat' and had to be cared for and needed help with bathing, etc.


LoveBHMS said:


> I am serious about this.
> 
> I would truly and honestly like to know what harassment FA's go through. I mean some of them make it sound tortuous.
> 
> ...


I suppose it depends. When one has a family who is completely fat-phobic, it can make a difference. But if the guy is strong enough, he'll face that and go after the woman he wants regardless. It's not easy, though.

Likewise, my ex went through some shit because of my size. I remember going and bringing him lunch at work some times and the guys would be nice to my face, but they were always trying to set him up with thin women. So was a longtime friend of his who always said things like, "you'd look like Pat Benetar if you'd lose weight," and "if you lost weight you'd look like Linda Ronstadt." 

All in all, I'd never date a closeted FA, were I single. Been there, it sucks, and since then I've had no desire to be someone's fat, dirty secret. Once was enough to show me that I deserve better. Frankly, I prefer men who are exclusively FAs, though if he made a good case, were I single I'd consider a guy who has no real preference, which is what my ex-husband was. I turned him -- his next wife was fat, too.


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## Just_Jen (Mar 10, 2008)

Tina said:


> Yes, I believe so in a number of cases. I've heard of several women who were left after they got 'too fat' and had to be cared for and needed help with bathing, etc.



that is so harsh! if i met those men i would give them a swift kick to the groin and a large poke in the eye!!!!!!!!! That really makes me rather angry, i mean they want a woman to get bigger and then they run off, cause thats love..*runs away with a string of obsceneties*


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## ashmamma84 (Mar 10, 2008)

Just_Jen said:


> that is so harsh! if i met those men i would give them a swift kick to the groin and a large poke in the eye!!!!!!!!! That really makes me rather angry, i mean they want a woman to get bigger and then they run off, cause thats love..*runs away with a string of obsceneties*



Sadly, in that case, I don't believe it's about the woman -- the human being -- but rather, the numbers and the fat...some people only care about that aspect. Some people can be really heartless. And chances are, a person like that would just run off only to do that same thing to someone else.


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## altered states (Mar 10, 2008)

sweet&fat said:


> not at all- i just thought it was a nice statement!



Sorry - it's been a rough monday. Carry on!


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## Tina (Mar 10, 2008)

Just_Jen said:


> that is so harsh! if i met those men i would give them a swift kick to the groin and a large poke in the eye!!!!!!!!! That really makes me rather angry, i mean they want a woman to get bigger and then they run off, cause thats love..*runs away with a string of obsceneties*


Yep. It's all about the process, or, so to speak, it's about the journey, not the destination. That kind of obsession removes the human being that the woman actually is from the equation and turns it into an impersonal obsession wherein the woman is nothing more than a vehicle for his desire.

The really difficult part is, IMO, that from what I hear, many times the woman has no idea he is like this and that he will actually leave her once she is fat and he is bored.


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## stefanie (Mar 10, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> I am serious about this.
> 
> I would truly and honestly like to know what harassment FA's go through. I mean some of them make it sound tortuous. ... Is it so bad that it's worth spending your *whole life* sexually unfulfilled?



Yeah, I wonder this myself. Because around here, at least, I see fat couples all the time, or combos (fat guy/thin girl, thin guy/fat girl.) *Somebody* is comfortable enough to pair off. I hardly believe *all* the fat partners got fat after partnering. 

My guess is that the conflict is largely internal guilt over what's seen as an "unacceptable" desire. The reason the desire doesn't get brought out into the sunlight is because, perhaps, the sexual appeal *comes from* its perceived "wrongness." If it's just normal - if fat is just another body type, one you happen to like more than others - then there's no "forbidden fruit" aspect anymore. There's just a man and a woman trying to work out all that relationship stuff together - IOW, ordinary life. 

For some people, "ordinary life" is *not* the point. They*want* something that stays in the shadows, has a dark secret thrill about it. I think it's important if one is looking for a relationship, to be able to winnow those people out.


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## Just_Jen (Mar 10, 2008)

Ashmamma and Tina, are there a lot of men like that? seriously? cause to me that's just ridiculous. As if a person can even be like that! if i were any of those women id probably stab them with a fork! it's really sad that a man can start with someone and be with them only to make them bigger and then leave them. are they just cold hearted evil people? because id have thought that love would have been a part of it, at least somewhere?!


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 10, 2008)

stefanie said:


> Yeah, I wonder this myself. Because around here, at least, I see fat couples all the time, or combos (fat guy/thin girl, thin guy/fat girl.) *Somebody* is comfortable enough to pair off. I hardly believe *all* the fat partners got fat after partnering.
> 
> My guess is that the conflict is largely internal guilt over what's seen as an "unacceptable" desire. The reason the desire doesn't get brought out into the sunlight is because, perhaps, the sexual appeal *comes from* its perceived "wrongness." If it's just normal - if fat is just another body type, one you happen to like more than others - then there's no "forbidden fruit" aspect anymore. There's just a man and a woman trying to work out all that relationship stuff together - IOW, ordinary life.
> 
> For some people, "ordinary life" is *not* the point. They*want* something that stays in the shadows, has a dark secret thrill about it. I think it's important if one is looking for a relationship, to be able to winnow those people out.



You know, I've had a bird's eye view into this a little bit. Certainly I can't speak for every FA but a few times I've been a fly on the wall so to speak when a guy finally decides it's time to come out to his family. Oh.my.gawd. You would think they were planning a funeral. The family is contacted and cryptically over the phone that he wants to see them. He meets with them, someitmes one on one and sometmes all gathered togehter. He's got a friend with him.... Meanwhile I'm looking at him askance and asking, "Are you certian all of this is necessary?" Once the deed is done most of the time he reports back that his family's reaction was the same as mine. They though maybe he was dying or something. Mostly they took it in stride and said, "Anything you want hun, as long as she's nice and she stays out of my rose bushes." I've seen this more than once where the FA thinks its a bigger deal than it is. This is mainly because for THEM, it is a big deal - probably the biggest deal in their lives so in their eyes it's HUGE. I'm sure there are some who have rediculously fat phobic relatives so I'm not picking on anyone. I just think that there comes a time where one has to begin living life on behalf of themselves and not the whole famn damily. the press conference seem overblown though even in the case of fat phobes.


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 10, 2008)

Just_Jen said:


> Ashmamma and Tina, are there a lot of men like that? seriously? cause to me that's just ridiculous. As if a person can even be like that! if i were any of those women id probably stab them with a fork! it's really sad that a man can start with someone and be with them only to make them bigger and then leave them. are they just cold hearted evil people? because id have thought that love would have been a part of it, at least somewhere?!



They do exist but thankfully the sickos are few and far between. Even some of the ones I've met who fantasize about such a thing aren't interested in it for real. Fantasy is fun but in real life they would be just as horrified as you.


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## stefanie (Mar 10, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> You know, I've had a bird's eye view into this a little bit. Certainly I can't speak for every FA but a few times I've been a fly on the wall so to speak when a guy finally decides it's time to come out to his family. Oh.my.gawd. You would think they were planning a funeral.



Oh, no. People don't really do that, do they? You're absolutely right: the emphasis is *all in the person's head.* Because outside of some really uptight families, I cannot see the vast majority of people ever making a big deal about this - *despite* all the media drivel that's being churned out these days. Anyway, so many people have *fat relatives* themselves.

It sounds like somebody's staging an intervention or something. Sheesh. Yes, there's social prejudice, etc. But the more *normal* we treat the whole thing, the more people will *accept* a fat partner as normal. People who act like they're doing something wrong or deviant will generally get treated that way.


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## Tina (Mar 10, 2008)

Just_Jen said:


> Ashmamma and Tina, are there a lot of men like that? seriously? cause to me that's just ridiculous. As if a person can even be like that! if i were any of those women id probably stab them with a fork! it's really sad that a man can start with someone and be with them only to make them bigger and then leave them. are they just cold hearted evil people? because id have thought that love would have been a part of it, at least somewhere?!


I don't believe so, Jen, but there are some out there. I think most FAs are just regular guys but with a preference for fat women.


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## Ample Pie (Mar 10, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> That's it's the "making" that turns them on, not the idea of being with a fat woman. It's the process.



I wasn't disagreeing that it's a sexual process only that you seem to suggest it isn't a pretty widespread occurrence.


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## Zoner (Mar 10, 2008)

ripley said:


> about the link.
> 
> The part I put in bold makes me very sad.
> 
> I don't make a point of looking unhappy or indifferent...I doubt at that moment that I have the mental faculty to even form a plan, lol. It's more a fight-or-flight thing, and all I wanna do is fly, even though, if it's a guy I'm attracted to, I want to be with him.


Oh. Well, umm... glad I could bring your depression into focus for you, then. :doh:
Okay, how 'bout this: As you flee, you alter your course to direct you to the ladies room. Once inside, you do some quick zen meditation to center yourself. Then you return, approach _him_, and use the "just wanted to freshen up a bit" line (you know, to indicate interest).

Oh, never mind. I suck at this. 


Tina said:


> ... I've had no desire to be someone's fat, dirty secret.


That'd be an awesome t-shirt: "I'm not your fat, dirty secret."

Or better yet, "I'm <closet FA's name>'s fat, dirty secret."


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 10, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> There is a signifigant percentage of men who prefer thin women who will get fat than women who are already fat and gaining. I often wonder what these fellas will do once their woman gets fat? Will they lose interest? It's an odd kink that rarely comes to fruition.




I think this kind of explains all the guys over on the weight board that seem to go apeshit over women that post pics there that don't look to weight 140 lbs soaking wet.


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## ClashCityRocker (Mar 10, 2008)

well...i've dated big girls, and i've dated small girls, and i'll say this. at my age(still way young, to some...many, i guess) i'm over that whole "what'll people think seeing me w/a fat girl" phase. now, it's more about the connection with the person. i've been with skinny chicks that i LEGITIMATELY found physically attractive...but if i can't at least tell them about the whole feederism thing, and while i'm not gonna try to fulfill that fantasy, it's still a real fantasy to me, so at least be respectful of that. but that's kinda hard to find. i can really only speak for myself when i say that i try my damnedest to make sure that the connection that i forge with a lady is based first and foremost on personality. the physical aspect, although very important, is secondary. 'sides, things are ALWAYS perfect in MY head when i'm "helpin myself." that was a joke...kind of.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 10, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> I am serious about this.
> 
> I would truly and honestly like to know what harassment FA's go through. I mean some of them make it sound tortuous.
> 
> ...



Thank You :bow: :kiss2:


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 10, 2008)

stefanie said:


> Oh, no. People don't really do that, do they? You're absolutely right: the emphasis is *all in the person's head.* Because outside of some really uptight families, I cannot see the vast majority of people ever making a big deal about this - *despite* all the media drivel that's being churned out these days. Anyway, so many people have *fat relatives* themselves.
> 
> It sounds like somebody's staging an intervention or something. Sheesh. Yes, there's social prejudice, etc. But the more *normal* we treat the whole thing, the more people will *accept* a fat partner as normal. People who act like they're doing something wrong or deviant will generally get treated that way.



That is why I've never understood the whole notion of a "coming out" as if you somehow are expected to go out of your way to explain your size preference.

The more normal you act like it is, the more normal everyone else thinks it is. I don't think I've EVER had a conversation about it that lasted more than about 4 sentences.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Mar 10, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> That is why I've never understood the whole notion of a "coming out" as if you somehow are expected to go out of your way to explain your size preference.
> 
> The more normal you act like it is, the more normal everyone else thinks it is. I don't think I've EVER had a conversation about it that lasted more than about 4 sentences.



I somewhat agree with this, but I also think it's far more socially acceptable for women to date fat men. They've got the whole "teddy bear" thing going on. At least from my experience I've heard the whole "I feel safe and protected around so and so because they're big" 

yet for me I'm forever being asked to justify my preferences .. over .. and over .. and over ..

of course it is different for everyone, but that is just how I've always seen it.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 10, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> I somewhat agree with this, but I also think it's far more socially acceptable for women to date fat men. They've got the whole "teddy bear" thing going on. At least from my experience I've heard the whole "I feel safe and protected around so and so because they're big"
> 
> yet for me I'm forever being asked to justify my preferences .. over .. and over .. and over ..
> 
> of course it is different for everyone, but that is just how I've always seen it.



One question: Exactly WHO are you having to justify it to?

Male friends? Thin female friends? family? everyone? who?


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## BothGunsBlazing (Mar 10, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> One question: Exactly WHO are you having to justify it to?
> 
> Male friends? Thin female friends? family? everyone? who?



All of the above. I guess I don't HAVE to justify anything, but I'll be damned if I don't get stared at like I'm a complete psycho every time I attempt to! Oddly enough .. my male friends give me the least amount of crap for it. My family and yes, female friends who are thin actually seem offended by the idea. Funny that.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 10, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> I somewhat agree with this, but I also think it's far more socially acceptable for women to date fat men. They've got the whole "teddy bear" thing going on. At least from my experience I've heard the whole "I feel safe and protected around so and so because they're big"
> 
> yet for me I'm forever being asked to justify my preferences .. over .. and over .. and over ..
> 
> of course it is different for everyone, but that is just how I've always seen it.



It is easier. Plus there's the whole "women are judged on looks men on what they do" thing.

I mean in the past year and a half I went out with a fat attorney and a skinny blue collar dude. Believe me when I tell you it's harder to reveal to your mother that you are dating a guy in the building trades than a fat guy.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 10, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> All of the above. I guess I don't HAVE to justify anything, but I'll be damned if I don't get stared at like I'm a complete psycho every time I attempt to! Oddly enough .. my male friends give me the least amount of crap for it. My family and yes, female friends who are thin actually seem offended by the idea. Funny that.



I have my own theory about this....thin women...some of them...they do ANYTHING to stay thin. Some are naturally thin while others half starve/always diet to be "acceptable". Usually...us fat women don't. I eat what I like, though I did spend years on the diet train, I always ended up eating the good stuff at some point. 
It has also always been so very important to me NOT to be with a man that harassed me about my weight or eating. Some women seem to EXPECT it from men. So many women seem to feel as if they are EXPECTED to starve and half kill themselves to achieve this "acceptability"- from men and each other. A fat woman indicates that she isn't riding that train... a fat woman, on some level, in our society, is an absolute DEFIANCE of the paradigm laid out for us. 
Imagine it though....they starve/diet half the time, put themselves down everyday for not being as twig like as the super models that are so "highly revered" in the media/society. Then here you come.... stating your preference...a preference that can be interpreted as you saying "I PREFER women that don't act/think like you". I like women that aren't afraid to eat what they want, that order extra butter on their popcorn...women that ARE NOT LIKE YOU...all your starving and self put downs mean NOTHING to me."
A fat women...being liked by a man for how she is/looks.....is being "rewarded" for defying the program laid out to us by the world. 

God, I bet that eats them alive. Yeah... I can see why they ride you for your preference 

I have to wonder...if you stopped "explaining it' and simply "let it be", would anything be different for you/them? As I saw it recently pointed out somewhere on this forum, acting like it's the most natural thing in the world, and that they are the crazy ones for questioning it, might it make them think differently?


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## Fascinita (Mar 10, 2008)

Just_Jen said:


> it's really sad that a man can start with someone and be with them only to make them bigger and then leave them. are they just cold hearted evil people? because id have thought that love would have been a part of it, at least somewhere?!




Nah. Some people _never_ know the ability to love.


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 10, 2008)

stefanie said:


> Oh, no. People don't really do that, do they? You're absolutely right: the emphasis is *all in the person's head.* Because outside of some really uptight families, I cannot see the vast majority of people ever making a big deal about this - *despite* all the media drivel that's being churned out these days. Anyway, so many people have *fat relatives* themselves.
> 
> It sounds like somebody's staging an intervention or something. Sheesh. Yes, there's social prejudice, etc. But the more *normal* we treat the whole thing, the more people will *accept* a fat partner as normal. People who act like they're doing something wrong or deviant will generally get treated that way.



Well, I've seen it up close probably three times. In the grand scope it's probably not enough to make a case however I was really taken by the intensity of it all. It was all so real to them, very heavy. I didn't dare say anything disrespectful. Only one guy had an uncle who made a fuss but in all three the family was barely fazed by it and had an inkling anyway because little Emma found his stash and told mum years ago. There was no fire. It was hard wrapping my head around the idea that anyone would be that worked up about it but I guess it just depends on who you are.


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 10, 2008)

Zoner said:


> Oh. Well, umm... glad I could bring your depression into focus for you, then. :doh:
> Okay, how 'bout this: As you flee, you alter your course to direct you to the ladies room. Once inside, you do some quick zen meditation to center yourself. Then you return, approach _him_, and use the "just wanted to freshen up a bit" line (you know, to indicate interest).
> 
> Oh, never mind. I suck at this.
> ...



:bounce: I freakin' ~~LOVE~~ this idea!! :bounce:


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## furious styles (Mar 11, 2008)

Human beings will take issue with ANYTHING. Families will have problems with you dating out of your race, sex, age range .. size is just another problem on the long list of judgmental closed mindedness. I've been subject to some of it, but for the most part I'm blessed with a non bigoted family. 

I'd like to say I'm better than a closeted FA because I've never hidden it or treated it as anything but what I am. But can I really? I've had good friends, and a relatively supportive family. I don't take shit about ANYTHING in life, because I'm a naturally stubborn bastard, but if I'd had it drilled into my head my whole life that this was an "unnatural" thing, maybe I'd be closeted about it too. 

I attempt to have some sympathy. But once it gets to a certain point I become another face in the bashing crowd.


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 11, 2008)

mfdoom said:


> ]Human beings will take issue with ANYTHING.[/B] Families will have problems with you dating out of your race, sex, age range .. size is just another problem on the long list of judgmental closed mindedness. I've been subject to some of it, but for the most part I'm blessed with a non bigoted family.
> 
> I'd like to say I'm better than a closeted FA because I've never hidden it or treated it as anything but what I am. But can I really? I've had good friends, and a relatively supportive family. I don't take shit about ANYTHING in life, because I'm a naturally stubborn bastard, but if I'd had it drilled into my head my whole life that this was an "unnatural" thing, maybe I'd be closeted about it too.
> 
> I attempt to have some sympathy. But once it gets to a certain point I become another face in the bashing crowd.



This is true. Back in high school there was this guy who at one point declared that he was only attracted to white girls. He was of mixed race and a large number of black girls in my school were furious. We'd been going to the same school for years, he didn't even run in our clique and nobody was really interested in him but they really got all bent out of shape about him not being into black women. It was an affront. He was cross examined with the usual 'what if you met.....' questions. Some people just couldn't wrap their heads around it but the majority of folks couldn't have cared less as long as he wasn't dating OUR little sister. He was arrogant and unpleasant. It is the nature of people to make a fuss over anything with a new car smell but at some point you've just got to live your life.


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## Jes (Mar 11, 2008)

sometimes, and this may not be a popular thing to say b/c it sounds like i don't realize that being an open FA is sometimes unpopular when i know that's not the case, i find it extremely demoralizing that fat people should be so very glad and celebratory that someone is actually willing to be seen with us. i mean, if i step back and actually look at that thought, it's hard for me to swallow.


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## Tina (Mar 11, 2008)

I think there are a good number of us with a positive enough self-perception who do not feel that way and would not stand for it.

It could also be said that there are a number of thin women who will take whatever comes along. And guys who will, too. I don't believe it's just a fat-girl thing.


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## Jes (Mar 11, 2008)

if you're addressing my comment tina, then let me explain more. I'm not talking about dating someone like that. I'm talking about 'standing around' (haha) on the internet extolling the virtues of it. That we still seem to be excited at not being shunned is... i'm sorry, it's very sad to me. It's like the old question: so, are you still beating your wife/peeing the bed? there's no good answer to that question. either you're still beating her or you used to beat her. i wish we weren't still debating this/being pleasantly surprised.

but, of course, that's negative, and i know how that may be seen.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Mar 11, 2008)

I have to agree with you Tina. And since it's waaaaay too early for me to think straight your words said it for me.




Tina said:


> I think there are a good number of us with a positive enough self-perception who do not feel that way and would not stand for it.
> 
> It could also be said that there are a number of thin women who will take whatever comes along. And guys who will, too. I don't believe it's just a fat-girl thing.


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## Tina (Mar 11, 2008)

Jes said:


> if you're addressing my comment tina, then let me explain more. I'm not talking about dating someone like that. I'm talking about 'standing around' (haha) on the internet extolling the virtues of it. That we still seem to be excited at not being shunned is... i'm sorry, it's very sad to me. It's like the old question: so, are you still beating your wife/peeing the bed? there's no good answer to that question. either you're still beating her or you used to beat her. i wish we weren't still debating this/being pleasantly surprised.
> 
> but, of course, that's negative, and i know how that may be seen.


Jes, I don't believe everything always has to be sunshine and rainbows, though I do sometimes get tired of so much negativity simply because I like to be as positive as possible (and sometimes it's just not possible). So I don't expect anyone to feign positivity, and I do agree with you. It's sad because, as you say, it's ever existed to begin with. When I found Dimension and NAAFA I was elated, because it made me feel like a bit less of an outcast. That was a positive laid on top of a whole lot of negative crap that was most of my life experience theretofore.

Thing is, today, when I see couples walking around, most of them either one or both of them are fat (to one degree or another) and they don't seem to be trying to distance themselves from each other. I think the actual novelty exits in giving it a name and acronym, and actually discussing it as a preference. I mean, back when I was in high school, I felt like a freak, was the fattest girl there, couldn't find ANY cute clothes, and I'd never heard or nor even _imagined_ anyone who might prefer fat people. Things have definitely changed, but I agree that it's sad that it's even discussed as something that's not the norm.


Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I have to agree with you Tina. And since it's waaaaay too early for me to think straight your words said it for me.


That IS early for you. Good luck with the pup on so little sleep. Maybe you can nap when she does.


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## Tad (Mar 11, 2008)

I was trying to resist the temptation of responding again in this thread, as I don't think there are a lot of people still involved who haven't made up their minds already. But sometimes you just have to knock your head against that brick wall anyway.



Fascinita said:


> What's this exactly, ed? A medical term? Or just another way of saying "boys will be boys"?
> 
> Can we keep it real? I have a world of respect for you. An immense world of respect. But there's no such thing as "testosterone poisoning."



Sorry, I guess that is only a local piece of slang, I thought it was more wide spread. Also I was being a little flip and abbreviated with my language anyways, which is never a good idea in a thread like this, so let me re-phrase that paragraph to more accurately say what I meant.

"In other words, I think it is not usually so much 'choose' as 'stumble into.' A better awareness of long term consequences would probably head off some of the more foolish choices that we often make as young adults, but obliviousness to long term consequences in young males seems to have evolved more as a feature than a bug, as it means that they have a reasonably chance of procreating even if they get themselves killed at a young age and are not in a position to provide much care to the child before that. That is, young men's aggression, rebelliousness, and willingness to fight for this moment while ignore the long term seems to have been good for our species, or we would not likely be this way. A lot of that aggression--both in terms of physical aggression (tendency to violence) and sexual aggression, apparently is tied in to testosterone levels, although that is not the only source of those effects. Not that young women are always the epitomes of sound long term thinking either, but they do not seem, on the whole, to have the same level of conviction that they are immortal and capable of anything, and so are less likely to get themselves killed at a young age."



LoveBHMS said:


> Because i'd hope that if he's an FA that he'd:
> 
> 1. Give the size 4 a polite brush off and not waste her time.
> 
> 2. Have the sense to know that maybe a size 22 would be a little shy or nervous b/c she's been told her whole life she's not as hot as the size 4 and maybe be a little proactive in his approach? Aren't men supposed to be the pursuers?



Wow, that is giving guys a lot more credit for romantic good sense than is usually credited to them. Your average male university student will probably be thinking "Hey, this girl actually seems to be interested in me! She's really skinny, but she seems into me. I wonder if she'd sleep with me tonight? It would be awesome to get laid. And Jack would be unbelievably jealous! Naw, girls don't really want to have casual sex. But wait, if she's hitting on *me* it must mean she's not looking for the whole fairy tale, because who would want that with me? So maybe she is just looking to knock boots, so she chose someone who can't afford to be picky. OK, totally, I should go for it. And skinny as it is, she probably won't cost that much to get drunk." That might be a little on the cynical side, but I'd really say not all that much. Remember that while young guys may feel immortal and that they can move mountains, most are also pretty insecure about their own sexual value. After all, they don't have the smoothness or wealth of older guys, they aren't as buff as movie or sports stars, why would a girl choose them?

Now, at say age 30, I'd expect a little more long term thinking and self-awareness. But you may have noticed that most of the guys coming in with these stories met their wives in their early to mid twenties. That age when you still think that if you put your mind to it you could get away with robbing an armored car, but you don't because you're going to get rich the honest way because you rock.



Rebecca said:


> Overall, I don't care who anyone dates. I'm not about to set down rules on who should date whom and why. BUT if you pick someone to date or marry, then go complain about it when it was your choice, well I have no sympathy and, in fact, none is deserved.



I have pretty limited sympathy for complaints. But really, I've not seen many guys come in here saying "I married a skinny woman, and now she won't gain fifty pounds for me, why does she have to be so difficult?" 

Rather most say "I married a skinny woman, thinking that the fact that I loved her was enough, and that I could make everything great for us. But over time I've found that I can't, our sex life is failing, and that is making both of us sad. What the hell can I do about this?" (or "I married a fat woman who has lost weight or is about to lose weight, and much though I want to be as attracted to her as ever, I can't make it so. What the hell do I do about it?"). Here I have a lot of sympathy, because what the guy wants is to make everything right, and he can't. Unfortunately, I've yet to see anyone come with an answer that makes things right in a situation like that. Sometimes things can be made less wrong through communication, but the fundamental issue doesn't usually go away.



Zoner said:


> But I was so focused on the problem of how some people marry someone they don't even know just because they're hot for them, then find out too late about all the personality and value clashes, that I went to the opposite extreme and put almost no weight on sexual compatibility.



I don't know about now so much, but I'm your age, and the message I got growing up was that _this is what nice guys do!_ That in fact if you let your lust influence you, you were clearly a male pig and not evolved. If you were actually enlightened you'd care only about the marvelous person inside. I don't know anyone who ever achieved that perfect a level of enlightenment, but I know a lot of guys who tried.

And not in response to any particular quote.....There is a point that I’ve made before, that I’ll try to make more clearly. The absolute classic way for a guy to get a woman interested in him is to show a touch of interest, some humor, some disinterest, and above all else to not look desperate. So in an interaction where a woman approaches a guy who is not all that into her, this dynamic often plays out by accident. For example, skinny ends up near FA. FA glances skinny’s way, seems to let his eyes linger on her face for a second, barely glances at the rest of her, then looks away. FA isn’t staring at her chest or pulling out some corny line, so he seems a little superior or something, and he doesn’t seem like he is a danger either. So maybe she says something to him, maybe “I can’t believe they are playing so much disco” which seems safe, as is he is not dancing. FA isn’t all that interested in her, so he can afford to joke around, so maybe he says “But weren’t you just dancing? Are you sure you don’t secretly like disco? Maybe you are really a disco queen.” She laughingly denies it, he calls her &#8216;disco’ a few more times, then after a few minutes finds a reason to go somewhere else. But he sees her in the cafeteria a couple of days later, and says “How’s it going, disco?” and it shows that he remembers her, so maybe he was interested after all, and maybe she feels like he’s a real challenge, that he must rate himself so highly that he's interested, but doesn't feel that he has to chase herl. Now some women would then write him off, not interested in that. But a lot instead will be more interested. He’s relaxed around her, he’s funny, he’s confident, not like all those boys who seem to only be trying to get her into the nearest bed.

Meanwhile, FA actually meets a BBW somewhere, although it was less likely to be at the dance as she is less likely to have gone, or to have made herself visible if she did go. He thinks she is really great looking, at least what he can see under the baggy clothes. Still, he finds an excuse to strike up a conversation. He asks her opinion on things, he laughs at her jokes, he maybe musters up the courage to give her a compliment of some sort, he seems eager for her companionship. In her experience she is pretty far down the social pecking order, so if he is eager for her approval, he must be pathetic indeed, and surely he could not be interested in her sexually, unless he just thinks she’d be easy. Well, she doesn’t need friends who are more pathetic than she is, and she isn’t easy, and she isn’t going to let anyone get the confused idea that she thinks that he thinks she’s attractive, because that would just give everyone a good laugh and make her look desperate.

So skinny is looking to hang around FA, while BBW is being pretty chilly. It turns out that skinny and FA like a lot of the same bands, and she likes FA’s friends too, and his friends are all jealous of him for having her pay attention to him. So they go to a movie, and then the next week to a dance club, and after that they end up sleeping together, and they are pretty much a couple. He doesn’t intend to make it serious, but the more he gets to know her, the more amazing she seems to be. His family all start hinting that he shouldn’t wait too long to propose to her. He still dreams of fat women, but she is cute in her own way and sex is pretty good. He thinks that with time he’ll get over his attraction to BBW, and anyway doesn’t everyone say that after marriage women let themselves go? And that with each kid a woman will gain fifteen pounds? So if she gained twenty after they got married and they had two kids, that would be fifty, and if he let her know how much he liked the extra pounds maybe she’d even gain another twenty or thirty, and that would put her close to two hundred, and that would be pretty good.

A dozen years later and she's only ten pounds heavier. For the past few years he'd been actually learning his own inner workings, and realized how thoroughly his sexuality is wrapped up with the concept of fat women. He's told her of his preference, but she can't bring herself to gain for him, and is clearly uncomfortable with his admission, so he doesn't talk to her about it any more, but it is always on his mind. They have two kids and the family is generally happy, but his sex drive has dwindled to the point that they make a point of having sex once a month because it would be pathetic if they didn't have at least that much. 

He can tell that his wife is unhappy with their mostly dead sex life, but he doesn't see how to fix that. And now she's decided to start training to do a triathlon, and has declared that she really wants to slim down and tone up. The thought revolts him, and makes what is left of his sex drive role over and die. Things are clearly at a crisis point. He desperately wants to make things better, but he doesn't know how. Still, there must be a way! But he can't talk to his wife about it, she doesn't want to hear it. He's not going to talk to his parents about his sexual desires. He's not going to confess to his buddies his sexual failings. Who does he talk to?

I’m not saying that is how it happens every time, but I think all of those elements show up frequently. Probably not all of them in every case, but you’ll see a fair number of them in most of the cases under discussion. A series of assumptions, misunderstandings, illusions, and deceptions of self and other, all leading up to a bad situation. So do we say "Dude, you screwed up, too bad for you." or do we try to help? (except that, as I said before, there is not a ton of help beyond 'open the lines of communication, so that at least she understands that you want to make things better, and are not just pulling away')

Oh, and in the interest of full disclosure: some of that dynamic played out with my wife and I, and other parts did not. So some of it I've seen at play first hand, and other parts only second hand. But I'm not going to break it down in more detail. (and I'm also not going to complain about the choices I made, nor apologize for them)


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## stefanie (Mar 11, 2008)

Hi, *Edx*, I appreciate your scenario, and see how that can come about. However, is it really always the woman's doing? In your sequence of events, the fat woman was cold in demeanor, wore baggy clothes, had this defensive internal monologue going that precluded her from even reacting to the man trying to get her attention.

I don't deny that this does happen, and unfortunately all too often. However, there are definitely BBWs out there who are friendly, engaging, wear flattering clothes, and are interested in men - but don't want to simply end up as someone's "hook up" for the night. 

Now this is of course a difficult dynamic between "Mars and Venus" no matter what the size. I'm not sure the "FA married to thin woman, lusting after fat ones" can all be laid at the feet of BBWs without self-confidence.

Maybe it's one of the ironies of middle age that as you get less cute, things get simpler, and you get more observant. Generally I assume that if someone flirts with me in the store, or wherever, it's because he likes what he sees. Similarly, if someone flirts with my husband, same conclusion. Nothing terribly complex about it.

But I agree - that long negative running commentary inside someone's head (whether they're a fat woman *or* a man) can really kill any chance of picking on those subtle signals so critical to "a meeting."



> Tina: Thing is, today, when I see couples walking around, most of them either one or both of them are fat (to one degree or another) and they don't seem to be trying to distance themselves from each other. I think the actual novelty exits in giving it a name and acronym, and actually discussing it as a preference.



Yeah, I have trouble putting 2+2 together in that regard as well. I mean, I read my own LJ, I read here, and there are often comments about how hard it is for guys and gals to get together. Yet I see fat couples (or combos) *everywhere.* Including when I look in the mirror (LOL.) 

Yes, talking about it openly is definitely something new (and necessary, IMO.) Although talking about it so openly runs the risk of fostering the mistaken notion that people will *only* find each other through deliberate "venues" to "meet fat people."

The bigger issue, I guess, is self-loathing, whether for being fat, or desiring a fat partner. The internal, self-inflicted abuse is often the worse.


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## Jes (Mar 11, 2008)

stefanie said:


> I'm not sure the "FA married to thin woman, lusting after fat ones" can all be laid at the feet of BBWs without self-confidence.
> .



Can I get a witness?





re: fat couples. My thinking is that often, they were thinner when they got together. 10 years on...well...


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## Blockierer (Mar 11, 2008)

My ex-girlfriend had only 260lbs. a little bit too thin for me. :wubu: 
The question is why did I take this girl? Our first date was a blind date, so I didn't know her size and I did not say "NO" for 9 month.
:doh:

Note:
I have never met I guy who said my wife is too thin.


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## sweet&fat (Mar 11, 2008)

stefanie said:


> However, there are definitely BBWs out there who are friendly, engaging, wear flattering clothes, and are interested in men - but don't want to simply end up as someone's "hook up" for the night.



Yep- right here! 



stefanie said:


> Now this is of course a difficult dynamic between "Mars and Venus" no matter what the size. I'm not sure the "FA married to thin woman, lusting after fat ones" can all be laid at the feet of BBWs without self-confidence.



Couldn't have said it better myself.


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## Tad (Mar 11, 2008)

stefanie said:


> Hi, *Edx*, I appreciate your scenario, and see how that can come about. However, is it really always the woman's doing? In your sequence of events, the fat woman was cold in demeanor, wore baggy clothes, had this defensive internal monologue going that precluded her from even reacting to the man trying to get her attention.
> 
> I don't deny that this does happen, and unfortunately all too often. However, there are definitely BBWs out there who are friendly, engaging, wear flattering clothes, and are interested in men - but don't want to simply end up as someone's "hook up" for the night.



Actually I didn't think that put the 'fault' (such as it is) on the BBW at all. I think it mostly fell on the FA, and to a lesser extent on the skinny woman, for pretending that everything was perfect from the beginning, when they could probably tell at some level that it was not. Going after someone who doesn't seem all that enamored of you? Thinking you can change your sexual nature, or expecting a partner to fundamentally change their body? Foolishness. But we humans are often foolish, probably more so when young.

Of course, if FA had met a cheerful, well presented, friendly BBW he may well have ended up going out with her, if other things clicked. And lo and behold, there are actually FA/BBW couples out there. But the complaint was not about the FA who were happy with their BBWives, it was about those who having issues with thin ones.

So, in some cases, at the critical period when the guy was single but ready and able to maintain a long term relationship, there wasn't such a happy, well presented BBW around. Or maybe there was, but FA was in the closet about being an FA. Or there was, but being that BBW was all that, she wasn't single. Or they met, talked, and FA admitted he preferred fat girls and BBW retreated from that admission. Or there were no BBW around right then at all, of any sort. Or FA was also fat, and BBW didn't want to date him because she didn't like fat guys, or didn't want it to seem she had to settle for a fat guy. Or FA was thin, and BBW liked fat guys. Or, or, or. 

Maybe worth remembering that when you see a guy coming in here talking about issues with a long term girlfriend or wife, they probably met back in the nineties or even sooner, and while there were fat people around back then, there were less of them, and in some communities (like a lot of colleges) even less than on average. And most people weren't on the web until the late nineties, so most of the people involved didn't have access to sites like this one.

I agree that it is a bit different if you've been surfing Dimensions for three years, in this day and age, and knowing that there are lots of other guys who like BBW, and plenty of BBW who are cool with their bodies, and still do something like this. Then again, love still happens without planning, even in the digital age. Or at least, infatuation that leads to love. 

For what it is worth, the first young woman that I ever fell for was someone I barely noticed on first meeting, so little did she match what I was looking for physically. But then I got to know her, and her mind totally enthralled me. I became smitten with her in spite of her body, and who knows what would have happened if my family had not moved across an ocean at that point. I will say I was completely convinced that the fact I was 'in love' with her when I was not especially attracted to her showed what a noble and enlightened guy I was. Then again, at that time I was sixteen, and was not thinking beyond how cool it would be to have a girlfriend and to kiss her, so any concept of long term compatibility was totally absent from my thought processes. 

Were there some fat girls in my school at the time? A handful. None of whom were in any of my classes or on any of my sports teams, while she was in both (this was the eighties in a very urban high school, and urban obesity rates were then as now amongst the lowest). Maybe some of those bigger girls were as brilliant and talented and subtle as was the object of my affection, but I didn't know them, and I did know this girl who could challenge me in math, transcribe music from one instrument to another while playing it, trusted me with her rare shy smiles, and seemed as eager to find reasons to spend time with me as I was with her. I knew I was more attracted to the chubbier girls, but did it ever occur to me that if we got together and stayed together, twenty years later we'd have a crisis in our sex life? Of course not. By early twenties are guys mostly slightly more aware and long-sighted? A little bit, but not all that much on average, I'd say.

To me, in a way, this is like someone who bought a house in a low density suburb when it was on the edge of town, and is now driven to distraction by the traffic tie ups going into town, which have gotten ever worse as more low density suburbs were built even farther out, and as they are hard to serve with public transit all those people come down the same roads as our hero. Was that perhaps perfectly predicable to a well educated and dispassionate observer right from the start? Yes. Was it obvious to the home buyers thrilled by being able to afford the four bedroom split level with a big yard and little traffic? No.


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## olwen (Mar 11, 2008)

Jes said:


> if you're addressing my comment tina, then let me explain more. I'm not talking about dating someone like that. I'm talking about 'standing around' (haha) on the internet extolling the virtues of it. That we still seem to be excited at not being shunned is... i'm sorry, it's very sad to me. It's like the old question: so, are you still beating your wife/peeing the bed? there's no good answer to that question. either you're still beating her or you used to beat her. i wish we weren't still debating this/being pleasantly surprised.
> 
> but, of course, that's negative, and i know how that may be seen.



This is an interesting comment. If I understand you correctly, Jes, I get where you're coming from, i do, cause sometimes I get angry and I think the same thing, but then I think, well, what if I were living in the early 20th century in the jim crow south, and I came across a white person who decided to acknowledge the fact that I am a human being with an act of kindness, or be angry at the fact that the white person had to feel the need to go out of his way to be kind in the first place? 

The fact is that we live in a world where fat people are discriminated against in a way that is not only socially acceptable, but government sanctioned as was slavery and jim crow. "Blackness" didn't receive the governmental seal of approval till the civil rights act of 1964. Nineteen freaking sixty-four. That's 344 years of discrimination. I hate to think that it would take another 344 years for it to be unconstitutional to discriminate against fat people, but till such time, I'm going to be happy that someone has decided to treat me like a human being. I'm not saying that one act of kindness will erase years of bullshit treatment, but it's a start.


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## Fascinita (Mar 11, 2008)

stefanie said:


> Hi, *Edx*, I appreciate your scenario, and see how that can come about. However, is it really always the woman's doing? In your sequence of events, the fat woman was cold in demeanor, wore baggy clothes, had this defensive internal monologue going that precluded her from even reacting to the man trying to get her attention.



Yes, I was struck by the same thing. There's a sense in ed's scenario of a man who's so passive that he falls into a life built on being passably "OK" with things at the start, but then quickly having to be bolstered by the flimsy hope and fantasy that one day somehow things will work out just right. 

Meanwhile, again, what about the perfectly friendy, well-groomed, intelligent BBW? Somehow she falls through the crack _everytime_. In these scenarios, there is room for everyone--thin women, fat women who don't like themselves, fat women looking to lose, closeted FAs, noncloseted FAs, feeders, gainers--just NO ROOM for the regular old BBW who is OK with herself "as is" and just wants a date here and there and a shot at a relationship.


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## sweet&fat (Mar 11, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Yes, I was struck by the same thing. There's a sense in ed's scenario of a man who's so passive that he falls into a life built on being passably "OK" with things at the start, but then quickly having to be bolstered by the flimsy hope and fantasy that one day somehow things will work out just right.
> 
> Meanwhile, again, what about the perfectly friendy, well-groomed, intelligent BBW? Somehow she falls through the crack _everytime_. In these scenarios, there is room for everyone--thin women, fat women who don't like themselves, fat women looking to lose, closeted FAs, noncloseted FAs, feeders, gainers--just NO ROOM for the regular old BBW who is OK with herself "as is" and just wants a date here and there and a shot at a relationship.



hear hear! :bow:


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 11, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Yes, I was struck by the same thing. There's a sense in ed's scenario of a man who's so passive that he falls into a life built on being passably "OK" with things at the start, but then quickly having to be bolstered by the flimsy hope and fantasy that one day somehow things will work out just right.
> 
> Meanwhile, again, what about the perfectly friendy, well-groomed, intelligent BBW? Somehow she falls through the crack _everytime_. In these scenarios, there is room for everyone--thin women, fat women who don't like themselves, fat women looking to lose, closeted FAs, noncloseted FAs, feeders, gainers--just NO ROOM for the regular old BBW who is OK with herself "as is" and just wants a date here and there and a shot at a relationship.



I posted about this about two pages upthread, but I think a lot of men are that passive so as to "fall into a life built on being passably ok."

That was sort of what I meant about men not prioritizing sexual attraction when seeking out a life partner. 

If you set aside size, how many men do you know who:

1. Married a woman they cohabited with for more than a year or so because she "pressured him."

2. Married a woman he dated for several years because she "pressured him" or because "she got hysterical because all her girlfriends were getting engaged."

3. Married a woman because it "seemed like the thing to do."

4. Married a woman because "it seemed like the right thing because all his friends were settling down."

I've found these attitudes/behaviours to be _really really_ common. I can think of numerous men in my social/professional acquaintences who will freely admit they got married for the above reasons.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Mar 11, 2008)

I'm slightly insulted by your assertion that even some men get married because women "Pressure them". If that's the case - they deserve what they get. They need to put their "Big Boy Boxers" on and act like men.

I don't know one man who got married because he was pressured. 

You're ideas sometimes leave me very confused about who you socialize with.





LoveBHMS said:


> I posted about this about two pages upthread, but I think a lot of men are that passive so as to "fall into a life built on being passably ok."
> 
> That was sort of what I meant about men not prioritizing sexual attraction when seeking out a life partner.
> 
> ...


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 11, 2008)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I'm slightly insulted by your assertion that even some men get married because women "Pressure them". If that's the case - they deserve what they get. They need to put their "Big Boy Boxers" on and act like men.
> 
> I don't know one man who got married because he was pressured.
> 
> You're ideas sometimes leave me very confused about who you socialize with.



Probably less cool people than you.

And why you'd get insulted, I have no idea. I was making an observation based on things male friends and colleagues have said and done. You *really* need to learn how to be respectful of the other people on this board. If you disagree with something there are ways to get that across without insulting EVERY post they make.


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## Fascinita (Mar 12, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> 1. Married a woman they cohabited with for more than a year or so because she "pressured him."
> 
> 2. Married a woman he dated for several years because she "pressured him" or because "she got hysterical because all her girlfriends were getting engaged."
> 
> ...



Yes, in fact I've known a number of guys who've lived out these scenarios, especially when I was younger. As I get older, maybe because I have fewer friends and socialize a lot less, and maybe because my friends are now older as well (and know themselves better) the number has dwindled. But definitely, have known tons of guys who just sort of drift into marriage because it seems like the thing to do, or they felt pressured one way or the other.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Mar 12, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Probably less cool people than you.
> 
> And why you'd get insulted, I have no idea. I was making an observation based on things male friends and colleagues have said and done. You *really* need to learn how to be respectful of the other people on this board. If you disagree with something there are ways to get that across without insulting EVERY post they make.



Wait .. what? Sandie is here? I thought there was talk of a farewell thread? I'm confused. I really should pay more attention.

Oh and I agree with the whole some people are pressured into marriage theory. It's actually happening among my friends. It's really starting to creep me out actually.


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## Fascinita (Mar 12, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> Oh and I agree with the whole some people are pressured into marriage theory. It's actually happening among my friends. It's really starting to creep me out actually.



Well, I mean, you make a choice to let yourself "be pressured" into marriage. You can also make a choice not to do that. Pressure or not, we have to be responsible for our lives.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 12, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> Wait .. what? Sandie is here? I thought there was talk of a farewell thread? I'm confused. I really should pay more attention.
> 
> Oh and I agree with the whole some people are pressured into marriage theory. It's actually happening among my friends. It's really starting to creep me out actually.



To Do List:

Build time machine.
Go back to being 22.
Gain 100 pounds.
Hang around places where BGB might be.


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## Fascinita (Mar 12, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> To Do List:
> 
> Build time machine.
> Go back to being 22.
> ...



Yeshhhh. I'm hopping onboard that TM. I've often ogled his cute pics, myself. Plus a lot of other sweet intangibles he brings to the table. Anyway, the tangibles are adorable.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 12, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Yeshhhh. I'm hopping onboard that TM. I've often ogled his cute pics, myself. Plus a lot of other sweet intangibles he brings to the table. Anyway, the tangibles are adorable.



Also. Hedgehog.


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 12, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Yeshhhh. I'm hopping onboard that TM. I've often ogled his cute pics, myself. Plus a lot of other sweet intangibles he brings to the table. Anyway, the tangibles are adorable.



Is this the line for the BGB fanclub? I'm staking my claim on the number 3 spot behind you.


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## Tad (Mar 12, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Meanwhile, again, what about the perfectly friendy, well-groomed, intelligent BBW?



I can't speak for every other guy, but speaking for myself, this was almost the question I was asking myself from puberty through until I was dating my wife. Or not so much "what about" as "where are?" For sure there were a few BBW to be seen, but usually lurking around the periphery in baggy clothes. On the one hand maybe I should have made more of an effort to get to know them. On the other hand, I was young, I was looking for someone fun to be with, not a long term project to build up someone's confidence. (In university I did meet a few BBW who were more sociable, but they were already dating others when I met them--in fact this was my first hint that other people must like fat girls too, as every BBW I actually got to know at all had a boyfriend).

Stepping away from personal experience, and extrapolating based on that experience and what others have siad, I don't think think there is egregious fault on either side. Rather, lots people doing what works for them at the time, and that creates circumstances not always favorable to the mixing of young FA with young BBW.

So tell me what you were like and what you were doing at, say, 20? If we'd been at the same school at the same time, would you ever have met, or even noticed each other? 

I was a not-thin-not-fat, four-eyed, nerdy, engineering student who mostly hung around with other engineers, played broomball and floor hockey, occasionally went down hill skiing or to events held by the science fiction club. I'd also occasionally go out with friends to a bar or club, and sometimes danced if there was a group that was dancing. I was not a suave, confident, romeo who approached women I didn't know, so those I got to know were all in classes or activities with me, or occasionally friends of friends.

Would I have crossed paths with you? If so, would we actually have met in a way where we were apt to to talk?


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## Wagimawr (Mar 12, 2008)

Wrong thread, buddy, this is the BGB fanclub meet'n'greet thread!


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## BothGunsBlazing (Mar 12, 2008)

Awwww, You know, if every thread would derail in such a way, this may just be the greatest forum ever.  Thank you all for the kind words. :blush:


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## Surlysomething (Mar 12, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> Is this the line for the BGB fanclub? I'm staking my claim on the number 3 spot behind you.


 

#4.


Hedgehog, check.
Gorgeous eyes, check.


Why must I be such a cougar.


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 12, 2008)

Surlysomething said:


> #4.
> 
> 
> Hedgehog, check.
> ...



I wasn't until I came to this forum. I don't know what they're putting in the corn flakes these days but you fellas rock! Guys were never this cool when I was in my 20's or it would have been much more difficult to behave myself.


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## Tina (Mar 12, 2008)

No lie. What I wouldn't have given for a forum like this, adorable boys like these, and to know that there were guys out there who found me beautiful, back when I was in high school and as a young adult. I felt SO ugly. It would have made all the difference for me.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 12, 2008)

Maybe....just maybe I'm some kind of "weirdo" here....but I have never "pressured" a man into marriage. I have been married twice and asked thrice. 
All three asked me...I turned down the first one because of my very young age. I married the second one at age 19 . The third time at age 22. 
Personally, at such a young age, it was *I* that felt "pressured" in some ways. 
Pressured to "have reason" to have sex with boyfriends that I always told no, pressured to be "a good girl", pressured to be part of a couple, pressured to let the relationship "take it's natural course". 
Constantly feeling "pushed" by mutual friends, by my Mother's expectations and by feelings of low self worth/worry. Also, society's expectations about women played into it, as well. 
I was always being told, by different people, how "lucky" I was to have a guy like my first husband "love me so much". It wasn't love....it was his insecurities/jealousies that made him that way....not me. 
Yes, if you want to call me "weak" or even stupid.....I'm cool with that...I was. 

My main point is though, that not all women "push" for marriage. Some women can "fall" into it......just like some men.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 12, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Maybe....just maybe I'm some kind of "weirdo" here....but I have never "pressured" a man into marriage. I have been married twice and asked thrice.
> All three asked me...I turned down the first one because of my very young age. I married the second one at age 19 . The third time at age 22.
> Personally, at such a young age, it was *I* that felt "pressured" in some ways.
> Pressured to "have reason" to have sex with boyfriends that I always told no, pressured to be "a good girl", pressured to be part of a couple, pressured to let the relationship "take it's natural course".
> ...



I think I"ve just see it more in men.


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## ripley (Mar 12, 2008)

edx said:


> For sure there were a few BBW to be seen, but usually lurking around the periphery in baggy clothes.



You've mentioned this a couple of times, so I thought I'd just quote it so we all know what a terrible death knell it is for a BBW to not wear tight clothes and stay in the middle of the action.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 12, 2008)

I can buy that LOVES...mainly because I also think back to high school and the number of girls that loved looking at "Brides" magazine. Sometimes, I get the impression that some people are more in love with the idea of the dress, flowers, cake, ceremony, etc than they need to be. 
Personally, I have always had the impression that some women's self esteem is tied up in the concept of engagement/marriage. My last bf told me how the woman he dated before me lived with him three years and constantly talked about marriage. He popped the question and they broke up for good a week later. :blink:
I have also seen couples that live together many years and then break up shortly after marriage. There seems to be a lot of "safety" to be found in marriage for women (I say this as a formerly married woman). There is also an incredible amount of societal pressure for women to get marrired....what about those statistics about "a woman has a greater chance of getting struck by lightning than getting married after age 30." Holy shit....no wonder some women might "feel pressured" to "pressure" their man if those are the types of statistics we are being passed. :doh:


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 12, 2008)

Jes said:


> sometimes, and this may not be a popular thing to say b/c it sounds like i don't realize that being an open FA is sometimes unpopular when i know that's not the case, i find it extremely demoralizing that fat people should be so very glad and celebratory that someone is actually willing to be seen with us. i mean, if i step back and actually look at that thought, it's hard for me to swallow.



You know, I've been pondering this and here is my theory. I believe that desire is involuntary. A misogynist may have very potent desires for women even though he fears and dispises them. Just because a man is an FA does not mean he doesn't hate fat women just as virulently as the rest of the world. Just because a woman is fat does not mean she will love her body and doesn't loath her state as much as any runway model would. I think a lot of men would give up a limb if it would take away their preference for fat women. They come sniveling around here to get their jollies and then leave, thoroughly disgusted with themselves. They sign up for pay sites and then put one of the pictures in an email as a joke to all his friends and office buddies. He loathes the woman just as much as the fat phobes if not more but he's accursed to never be able to get on without them. Not sure how prevelent it is but I KNOW they exist. Running into someone like that is always disturbing but what a joy to find someone who gets it. It's the same for every woman though. Nobody likes a misogynist jerk pawing around but when you meet a nice guy it sure does put an extra bounce in your step. I don't think it's demoralizing at all to be happy that the world isn't full of jerks and losers. We'll never be able to kill them all you know.


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## ripley (Mar 12, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> You know, I've been pondering this and here is my theory. I believe that desire is involuntary. A misogynist may have very potent desires for women even though he fears and dispises them. Just because a man is an FA does not mean he doesn't hate fat women just as virulently as the rest of the world. Just because a woman is fat does not mean she will love her body and doesn't loath her state as much as any runway model would. I think a lot of men would give up a limb if it would take away their preference for fat women. They come sniveling around here to get their jollies and then leave, thoroughly disgusted with themselves. They sign up for pay sites and then put one of the pictures in an email as a joke to all his friends and office buddies. He loathes the woman just as much as the fat phobes if not more but he's accursed to never be able to get on without them. Not sure how prevelent it is but I KNOW they exist. Running into someone like that is always disturbing but what a joy to find someone who gets it. It's the same for every woman though. Nobody likes a misogynist jerk pawing around but when you meet a nice guy it sure does put an extra bounce in your step. I don't think it's demoralizing at all to be happy that the world isn't full of jerks and losers. We'll never be able to kill them all you know.






Quoted because it's awesome and makes some amazing points.

<3 you, Miss Lilly.


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## The Orange Mage (Mar 12, 2008)

I'm only 21, so my dating experience isn't as...thorough as might be needed for a valid assessment, but in my case, finding a woman who's "just right" for me is hard enough WITHOUT looking for the body type on them that I like. That's why my my first girlfriend was below-average/average weight for her height, and why my current girlfriend is right on the borderline between plus-sizes and normal sizes.

My sexual desires (read: penis) may want a super-sized *body*, but I am VERY happy with the deliciously chubby *person* I happened to find. She's cute, we get along great, we've been together for over 2 years, and most importantly she doesn't hate her body. It's all this FA could ask for.

Essentially, I've got something that's more important than a recurring sexual fantasy. Waaayyyy more important. So I'm not complaining one bit.


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## Spanky (Mar 12, 2008)

ripley said:


> Quoted because it's awesome and makes some amazing points.
> 
> <3 you, Miss Lilly.



I have seen this deconstruction of men and specifically FAs on the boards before. It is very saddening because as I learn more and more from Dims, the more I realize a lot of what the ladies say here is true. I cannot grasp what they go through when the computer is turned off and the real world awaits. I used to think being on the boards in some way would let the BBWs here know that they are beautiful, not with any preconceived notions or ulterior motives, but just a size neutral or even size positive forum. Somewhere that they can be judged by the content of their character and not the size of their body or only by the size of their body (a :bow: to Dr. King). 

It seems even that is greeted skeptically by many BBWs and again, I repeat, I can only begin to understand why. It sure doesn't make it any easier to accept. I wish it wasn't that way. As a guy, I guess I like to see things fixed, simple and easy. A 2 x 4 here and a tightening of a bolt there and viola, equality and happiness for all who seek it. 

I have come to dislike the term FA because it sets the standard by which certain women are initially judged albeit positively. The same way women are judged negatively outside the walls of Dims. Through 0" or 4" of fat tissue is the heart and soul of a woman. A woman who bleeds, feels, loves, nurtures, hurts, smiles, laughs and cries. 

Deconstructing FAs I guess helps in creating a good defense against a mean outside world. Readying oneself for some of the mean things that seemingly supportive groups like FAs purport to do. But in the end, as Lilly so clearly stated, "when you meet a nice guy, it puts a bounce in your step and ....happy that the world isn't full of jerks and losers". 

The world is full of jerks and losers. There are a few men who are neither. All I can offer is my hope that they are found and right soon. You all here, deserve that which you seek, and then some. :bow:


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## mossystate (Mar 12, 2008)

ripley said:


> You've mentioned this a couple of times, so I thought I'd just quote it so we all know what a terrible death knell it is for a BBW to not wear tight clothes and stay in the middle of the action.



You were just asking for a small, steaming plate of rep...why, yes you were. Let's not even start discussing what many..many..FA's are saying by their own choice in clothing/grooming. But then, I keep forgetting that as a woman, I am to forever be wondering if the ' male gaze ' is upon me. Now, forgive me while I go throw in a load of briefs..aka granny panties..


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 12, 2008)

I know your kind Mossy.

You probably get dressed every damned morning without giving a second thought to what FAs might like you to wear.

Don't you?

Bitch.


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## furious styles (Mar 12, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> I know your kind Mossy.
> 
> You probably get dressed every damned morning without giving a second thought to what FAs might like you to wear.
> 
> ...



alright that was funny.


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## ripley (Mar 12, 2008)

mossystate said:


> You were just asking for a small, steaming plate of rep...why, yes you were. Let's not even start discussing what many..many..FA's are saying by their own choice in clothing/grooming. But then, I keep forgetting that as a woman, I am to forever be wondering if the ' male gaze ' is upon me. Now, forgive me while I go throw in a load of briefs..aka granny panties..



Are you kidding? I never have a _small_ plate of anything. 


Yours in granny-panty love,

ripola


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## superodalisque (Mar 13, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> I know your kind Mossy.
> 
> You probably get dressed every damned morning without giving a second thought to what FAs might like you to wear.
> 
> ...




wow! what a stereotype! i don't understand why a woman gets attacked and called names just because she is expressing her true opinion. have you ever thought that sometimes women dress in a sexy manner because they like how they look when they do. its just possible that women love being sensuous with no expectations of anyone else. guess what, sometimes we just like looking that way because it looks nice to us too. its not always to attract someone. and if it is thats ok too. have you ever thought that when a woman dresses casually and comfortably she does so because she likes it. if she likes that is ok as well.

no wonder some of my beautiful BBWs friends hide their bodies because everytime they show it some people think it is soley to attract the opposite sex. somehow your body never seems to belong to you but to the public. some BBWs are not into always being viewed through the eyes of the other. it seems very self centered and ignorant of you to look at things that way. i hope that isn't how you really are. and its hard to really know just based on what you've written here since this isn't real life. not everything boils down to your opinion. sometimes BBWs get a sense of what their opinion and value is really worth and they can actually dress for their own personality. i have my opinion about what i like to see on BBWs too. but i think its way beyond me to ridicule someone for having their own way of doing things. 

sit down and have a convo with women you love and respect and ask them their opinions. and when you do that imagine whether you'd like to have them called bitch when they are expressing that opinion. i'm not saying you are the first or only one to do this in the forums, and you certainly won't be the last. both the men and women do this here. but you know its really childish to be so angry and nasty toward someone just because they disagree with you. its fine to disagree but name calling is pretty messed up. language is a big thing. language has creative and destructive properties. i'm not sure if its your intention to give birth to a beast with your words. i'm not saying i'm perfect and always do the right thing but i thought you needed to be called on this and brought back to reality. i hope you'll do that for me too if i need it. just try and be a bit civil when you do.


-a BBW can love herself, be confident and true to herself without being a 
man hater
-a BBW has a right to control her own body
-a BBW has a right to her opinions
-a BBW has a right to dress as she sees fit
-if BBW acceptance is truly important to you, truly accept a BBW

PS: i just had a look back on this thread and it seems you have some kind of issue your dealing with because you seem hostile. i hope whatever it is works itself out because anger is poison.


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## mossystate (Mar 13, 2008)

Super, LovesBHMS was not attacking me. She was joking around, while, yes, making a point. I think it is a valid point. I do not want to see women, thin..fat..whatever..feeling like they have to dress a certain way or cannot dress the way they like. I do think there is an attitude out here from many, that if a fat woman wears baggy clothing, she must not value her body. Clothing does not always say more than....this is what I wanted to wear today. Sometimes, ' sexy ' is desperate...sometimes, baggy is confidence...mix and match these scenarios..

I thank you for not liking what are real attacks out here, but, this was not one of them..*S* If you had read my initial response to Ripley, this was pretty obvious.


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## Ample Pie (Mar 13, 2008)

there was a hint of sarcasm in that there quoted post, m'dear.


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## superodalisque (Mar 13, 2008)

mossystate said:


> Super, LovesBHMS was not attacking me. She was joking around, while, yes, making a point. I think it is a valid point. I do not want to see women, thin..fat..whatever..feeling like they have to dress a certain way or cannot dress the way they like. I do think there is an attitude out here from many, that if a fat woman wears baggy clothing, she must not value her body. Clothing does not always say more than....this is what I wanted to wear today. Sometimes, ' sexy ' is desperate...sometimes, baggy is confidence...mix and match these scenarios..
> 
> I thank you for not liking what are real attacks out here, but, this was not one of them..*S* If you had read my initial response to Ripley, this was pretty obvious.



as roseanna roseanna danna said " never mind"
THANK GOODNESS!!! *sigh of relief and a blush of embarrasment lol 

please accept my apologies LoveBHMS:kiss2: *spanks self*

lol, i thought LoveBHMS was some angry BHM dude oh well. good to meetya LoveBHMS


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## mossystate (Mar 13, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> as roseanna roseanna danna said " never mind"
> THANK GOODNESS!!! *sigh of relief and a blush of embarrasment lol
> 
> please accept my apologies LoveBHMS:kiss2: *spanks self*
> ...




Aw..you are just very energetic, you are... Let's just say this will be a warning to others..heh.


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## Tommy_Oblivion (Mar 13, 2008)

thin women always hit on me in high school and the only attractive fat girl in high school was generally hated by my group of friends. So i ended up going on relatively few dates with her and ended up dating mainly skinny chicks.


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## Tad (Mar 13, 2008)

ripley said:


> You've mentioned this a couple of times, so I thought I'd just quote it so we all know what a terrible death knell it is for a BBW to not wear tight clothes and stay in the middle of the action.



Not a death knell. But to stay away from where people will notice you, and wear clothes that say 'don't look at my body', and then say 'hey, how come none of you guys noticed me' might garner less sympathy for the complaint than otherwise.

I don't much care if anyone in particular puts themselves out there to draw attention. But in the context of this discussion: why do some FAs end up in long term relationships with thin women, instead of finding a BBW, I think it is very relevent. If you don't want to be noticed, that is fine. If you do want to be noticed, that is fine. But a lot of people--not just BBW by any means, but that was the point here--are very mixedin what they want, and end up behaving one way while really wanting something else, and the results are rarely what they want. This is not a BBW/FA thing, this is a maturity thing


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 13, 2008)

edx said:


> Not a death knell. But to stay away from where people will notice you, and wear clothes that say 'don't look at my body', and then say 'hey, how come none of you guys noticed me' might garner less sympathy for the complaint than otherwise.
> 
> I don't much care if anyone in particular puts themselves out there to draw attention. But in the context of this discussion: why do some FAs end up in long term relationships with thin women, instead of finding a BBW, I think it is very relevent. If you don't want to be noticed, that is fine. If you do want to be noticed, that is fine. But a lot of people--not just BBW by any means, but that was the point here--are very mixedin what they want, and end up behaving one way while really wanting something else, and the results are rarely what they want. This is not a BBW/FA thing, this is a maturity thing



Well I don't know Ripley personally, but maybe she's shy or introverted and thus would feel uncomfortable "in the middle of the action".

Or maybe she's been hit on by an FA or 2 who made a little too much notice of her body and she prefers to be more discreet. Or maybe she prefers more comfortable clothing. Or maybe the type of man she likes is not the sort to go after a flashier woman.


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## ashmamma84 (Mar 13, 2008)

edx said:


> Not a death knell. But to stay away from where people will notice you, and wear clothes that say 'don't look at my body', and then say 'hey, how come none of you guys noticed me' might garner less sympathy for the complaint than otherwise.
> 
> I don't much care if anyone in particular puts themselves out there to draw attention. But in the context of this discussion: why do some FAs end up in long term relationships with thin women, instead of finding a BBW, I think it is very relevent. If you don't want to be noticed, that is fine. If you do want to be noticed, that is fine. But a lot of people--not just BBW by any means, but that was the point here--are very mixedin what they want, and end up behaving one way while really wanting something else, and the results are rarely what they want. This is not a BBW/FA thing, this is a maturity thing



I sort of understand what you are saying -- two of my friends are women who complain about being single and not attracting the type of man they want. They are two of the pickiest women, in terms of what they want from a man (as far as physicality and grooming are concerned)...and I've had to tell them that it's sort of hypocritical to have this thinking where your potential partner be "fresh to def" or dressed impeccably, yet when you walk out of the house, it looks as if you just rolled out of bed. I think they are starting to realize they can't have it both ways...and to some degree, it isn't right or wrong...it just is. People shouldn't expect something out of a potential mate that they aren't willing to do or step up to the plate for...

I don't really think it's always about looks, but to a certain degree if you are single and looking...you are in a way, selling yourself and part of that is what you look like...I mean, it's what a person sees first -- not your articulate prowess, big heart, and kind spirit. Personally, there's a sense of pride I get from dressing well...so much so that in a way it translates for me that I am actively engaging in self-care; the attention and time spent is not in vain even if no one compliments or notices, because I adore how I feel when I am coiffed and manicured.


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## butch (Mar 13, 2008)

I don't know that I have much to add, but I was struck by the idea that fat women in baggy clothes aren't noticed? I don't know about the other fat women here, but I get noticed all the time, no matter what I wear (and I don'r usually wear overly baggy clothes). Because of my size, I don't have to do or wear anything different to get a lot of notice, even if that notice isn't getting me a lot of dates or wolf whistles or whatever other kind of approving/attracted attention I'm expected to get from men or women who prefer fat partners.

I'm not trying to jump on you, Ed. I know for myself, when I see a fat person I'm attracted to, I could care less about what they're wearing, because even in the baggiest of clothing, I can still see that they are fat, and still get an idea of the contours of their body. And while I may be wishing they were wearing tighter clothes, I'm still attracted to them, and maybe that attraction is even heightened because of the mystery of what the fat person's true dimensions are.


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## mossystate (Mar 13, 2008)

How about helping people with self confidence, that is beyond what they wear. I am all for good grooming..and that goes for BOTH men and women, although, let's face it, men are NOT given the same grief about what they wear..they are simply allowed to....be..as long as they shower, wear clean clothing..etc.. This harping on clothing tells me it is more about what the FA wants, not who the woman...is.

I would ask all the FA's who harp on the clothing style issue to look in the mirror. Not saying that anybody has to wear certain styles of clothing simply because a person complaining is trying hard to look like they jumped from the pages of GQ...but....FA's...how much effort do YOU put into looking how you expect a woman to look. Or, do some of you think that because there are fewer of you than there are of..us...that you can coast a bit.

grrrr


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## ashmamma84 (Mar 13, 2008)

mossystate said:


> How about helping people with self confidence, that is beyond what they wear. I am all for good grooming..and that goes for BOTH men and women, although, let's face it, men are NOT given the same grief about what they wear..they are simply allowed to....be..as long as they shower, wear clean clothing..etc.. This harping on clothing tells me it is more about what the FA wants, not who the woman...is.
> 
> I would ask all the FA's who harp on the clothing style issue to look in the mirror. Not saying that anybody has to wear certain styles of clothing simply because a person complaining is trying hard to look like they jumped from the pages of GQ...but....FA's...how much effort do YOU put into looking how you expect a woman to look. Or, do some of you think that because there are fewer of you than there are of..us...that you can coast a bit.
> 
> grrrr



I agree with what you said, Mossy. It goes both ways, in my thinking...I do know that women are harped on alot more in terms of what they look like, but I don't think it means it's a free pass for a man to look (or act) any ol' kind of way. I also think that in helping people with self-confidence it sort of gets lost in translation...it means different things to different people, so for some FA's it might be feeling the need to chime in about what looks nice on a bbw body, what colors suit her complexion, etc. I'm not saying it's right...but I think that's happens in some cases. 

And sometimes, I'll be honest -- I could be having a bad day for whatever reason and if I take some time to put on a cute outfit or fix my hair or makeup...I start to feel a bit better about myself. Of course, it isn't some magic fix, but sometimes I do believe that in changing the outside, it can help change the inside. Or how about the woman that already feels great about her self, but she just doesn't know how to put together an outfit that reflects her self-confidence? Some times people just need a bit of gentle take-me-by-the-hand-and-show-me...it's all in how you do it; you can be helpful without being judgemental.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 13, 2008)

This is interesting because I read Ed's remarks differently. I honestly thought they seemed, not to criticize BBWs for not dressing properly, but even more to almost say "Well, if the FAs are not finding you, it's your fault."

It really rang as the idea that women are responsible for relationships and if it's not happening, you're doing something wrong. Like "You're not bringing in the FAs...well then YOU are doing something wrong."

And it seems that what Mossy is saying is that men should not try to read so much from outward appearance. Yes, we always hear that men are visually oriented. But beyond that, if you *know* that you are sexually aroused by fat women, and you know that there are fat women around, it seems that what the women on here are saying is to look beyond the superficial and put some effort into getting to know the women around you.


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## Just_Jen (Mar 13, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> You know, I've been pondering this and here is my theory. I believe that desire is involuntary. A misogynist may have very potent desires for women even though he fears and dispises them. Just because a man is an FA does not mean he doesn't hate fat women just as virulently as the rest of the world. Just because a woman is fat does not mean she will love her body and doesn't loath her state as much as any runway model would. I think a lot of men would give up a limb if it would take away their preference for fat women. They come sniveling around here to get their jollies and then leave, thoroughly disgusted with themselves. They sign up for pay sites and then put one of the pictures in an email as a joke to all his friends and office buddies. He loathes the woman just as much as the fat phobes if not more but he's accursed to never be able to get on without them. Not sure how prevelent it is but I KNOW they exist. Running into someone like that is always disturbing but what a joy to find someone who gets it. It's the same for every woman though.




my god that post is depressing! interesting points but still.. *goes to hide in dark corner...big dark corner haha*


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## Tina (Mar 13, 2008)

Heh. And I read it to say that we all find confidence attractive and that certain things, like dress and/or body language, etc, can give off vibes that the person isn't confident or is in some ways hiding.

Maybe I read it that way because that's who I used to be. Growing up, there was nothing I wanted more than to blend into the woodwork. I had terrible self-esteem and a very warped self-perception. My clothing was horrid, because that was before they started making nice clothes for plus-size kids, teens and adults. Even as an adult, when I started being able to find clothes that looked nice and fit well, I often wore blouses that were drapey and covered my stomach, feeling shame and thinking that I should hide it because people wouldn't want to see it. 

It wasn't until I changed the way I saw myself that I stopped doing that as much, and then when I was able to shop in stores like Fashion Bug and The Avenue, is when I really stopped buying so much drapey stuff, because they (unlike many of the places I had bought from before) didn't carry much of that stuff and I liked the younger-looking styles. For some time now I figure if someone doesn't care to see my stomach, they can just look the other way.

So, I guess to me it is a confidence issue, which is how I read it from Ed.


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## Tina (Mar 13, 2008)

Heh. And I read Ed's remarks to say that pretty much all of us find confidence attractive and that certain things, like dress and/or body language, etc, can give off vibes that the person isn't confident or is in some ways hiding.

Maybe I read it that way because that's who I used to be. Growing up, there was nothing I wanted more than to blend into the woodwork. I had terrible self-esteem and a very warped self-perception. My clothing was horrid, because that was before they started making nice clothes for plus-size kids, teens and adults. Even as an adult, when I started being able to find clothes that looked nice and fit well, I often wore blouses that were drapey and covered my stomach, feeling shame and thinking that I should hide it because people wouldn't want to see it. 

It wasn't until I changed the way I saw myself that I stopped doing that as much, and then when I was able to shop in stores like Fashion Bug and The Avenue, is when I really stopped buying so much drapey stuff, because The Avenue and such (unlike many of the places I had bought from before) didn't carry much of that stuff and I liked the younger-looking styles. For some time now I figure if someone doesn't care to see my stomach, they can just look the other way.

So, I guess to me it is a confidence issue, which is how I read it from Ed.


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## Fascinita (Mar 13, 2008)

edx said:


> I don't much care if anyone in particular puts themselves out there to draw attention. But in the context of this discussion: why do some FAs end up in long term relationships with thin women, instead of finding a BBW, I think it is very relevent. If you don't want to be noticed, that is fine. If you do want to be noticed, that is fine. But a lot of people--not just BBW by any means, but that was the point here--are very mixedin what they want, and end up behaving one way while really wanting something else, and the results are rarely what they want. This is not a BBW/FA thing, this is a maturity thing



Ed, are you really saying that if all fat women dressed more provocatively, we'd all be able to snag boyfriends and husbands? This scenario that you paint, with the crux hinging around this issue of women not making themselves attractive enough, really strikes me as so reductive. The implications are staggering--men (even fat-loving men) everywhere are drifting into less-than-satisfactory lifetime commitment simply because fat women are wearing baggy clothes? Doesn't that strike you as a kind of perverse logic? Besides which, any number of women here continue to hold that they like themselves just fine and are not trying to hide under baggy clothes. Fat women's fashion choices have increased since twenty years ago. And in any case, most fat women I know DO care about looking pretty and well-groomed in general and do want to be noticed, though probably not ogled and pawed. We walk a thin line, you know. Damned if you do sometimes, damned if you don't. Most fat women I know also have a lot of other things going on, so they are not _consumed_ by dressing to please others on a daily basis, as they go about living their lives. But it's _those very things that round them out as full humans _that you're ignoring in your analysis of why fat women are not as attractive to men (even self-professed fat-loving men) as thin women. To say that men are ending up with thin women because fat women wear baggy clothes seems absurd, unless what you mean is that men find thin women more attractive because fat women don't take care of themselves. If a lot of men really feel that way, I guess I'm surprised to hear it. Like I said, I know lots of pretty fat women who enjoy getting dolled up. I'm not sure I understand why the emphasis on women who don't want to be noticed and whether that can serve as an explanation of why men choose thin women over fat. Something just doesn't jibe.


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## Santaclear (Mar 13, 2008)

I don't necessarily mind baggy clothes one bit. I think women and men should dress to please themselves first. A sense of personal style makes more of an impression on me in the long run than "stylishness."

And "confidence," I believe, is a tad overrated when we talk about attraction. Confidence is good, maybe great for the person who has it but I don't always judge people negatively when they don't have it. And sometimes when they _exude_ it it grosses me out.


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## Fascinita (Mar 13, 2008)

Santaclear said:


> I don't necessarily mind baggy clothes one bit. I think women and men should dress to please themselves first. A sense of personal style makes more of an impression on me in the long run than "stylishness."



Brother, you should see _my_ style! It's "Shirley McLane in _The Hooker With a Heart of Gold_" meets _Love Story_-preppy meets Malcolm McLaren circa 1976. _I_ think it's fetching.

Ditto what you said about confidence. Often overrated. Too much of it and it reminds me of a rooster in heat.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 13, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Brother, you should see _my_ style! It's "Shirley McLane in _The Hooker With a Heart of Gold_" meets _Love Story_-preppy meets Malcolm McLaren circa 1976. _I_ think it's fetching.
> 
> Ditto what you said about confidence. Often overrated. Too much of it and it reminds me of a rooster in heat.



Yeah but is it _baggy._?


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## Fascinita (Mar 13, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Yeah but is it _baggy._?



It's _batty_. Does that count?


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## Tina (Mar 13, 2008)

Santaclear said:


> I don't necessarily mind baggy clothes one bit. I think women and men should dress to please themselves first. A sense of personal style makes more of an impression on me in the long run than "stylishness."
> 
> And "confidence," I believe, is a tad overrated when we talk about attraction. Confidence is good, maybe great for the person who has it but I don't always judge people negatively when they don't have it. And sometimes when they _exude_ it it grosses me out.



Are you grossed out by true confidence, or by pompousness or the over-compensating faux confidence? Sometimes I think they get confused. I think true confidence is quiet and not necessarily in-your-face, but I'm sure not everyone sees it that way.


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## Santaclear (Mar 13, 2008)

Tina said:


> Are you grossed out by true confidence, or by pompousness or the over-compensating faux confidence? Sometimes I think they get confused. I think true confidence is quiet and not necessarily in-your-face, but I'm sure not everyone sees it that way.



Yeah, true confidence doesn't gross me out. I mean overconfidence or boastfulness, pomposity or a especially a sense of entitlement, that kind of stuff. 

That's really a slightly different subject but I do believe "confidence" as this top desirable quality in BBWs gets mentioned more often here than I feel it. It's not as high on my list, evidently, as on other people's. (Of course my girlfriend Joy is definitely a confident BBW so maybe what I'm saying is moot.)


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## ripley (Mar 13, 2008)

I think a lot of people say "confident" when what they really mean is "extroverted." Totally two different things. An introverted bbw some might see as lacking in confidence might have a solid sense of self-worth, and might be downright sexy after she gets to know a man a little. I think the internet in particular fosters this kind of view of women, and it's crap, in my opinion. Sometimes the smartest, most confident women are not going to put themselves out there in the hard sell to men.

If a guy isn't smart enough to see that or act on it...well then he deserves to drift into whatever unfulfilled relationship comes along.


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## snuggletiger (Mar 13, 2008)

Sorry Ripley it won't let me rep ya for your post.


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## Tina (Mar 13, 2008)

There's the whole spectrum, male or female. One can be confident without being extroverted, and extroverted without being confident, in that whole 'fake it 'till you make it' kinda way. Growing up painfully shy, and still being shy to a degree, I'd never call myself an extrovert, but I can act extroverted in given situations. I don't believe we can paint anyone with one broad brush and think we're generally more complex than any one label someone might want to stick on us.

As for the hard sell, I don't believe in it, whether it's business or relationships.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 13, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> It's _batty_. Does that count?



So long as you're dressing to attract the men, dear.

That's what counts.


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## Santaclear (Mar 13, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> So long as you're dressing to attract the men, dear.
> 
> That's what counts.



You too. Don't slack.


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## ekmanifest (Mar 13, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Brother, you should see _my_ style! It's "Shirley McLane in _The Hooker With a Heart of Gold_" meets _Love Story_-preppy meets Malcolm McLaren circa 1976. _I_ think it's fetching.
> 
> Ditto what you said about confidence. Often overrated. Too much of it and it reminds me of a rooster in heat.



postpixplsthx


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## Fascinita (Mar 13, 2008)

ekmanifest said:


> postpixplsthx



Here you go, doll.

View attachment 38321


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## Santaclear (Mar 13, 2008)

That's what we're talking about, Fasc. True confidence. And dressed to the NINES! :doh::bow: Bagginess be damned. Who would _not_ find that sexy?


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## mossystate (Mar 13, 2008)

Ummmm, the fun bags are not visible. I cannot know if I was to _get_ to know you, if you don't lemme sneak a peak..:smitten:


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 13, 2008)

Just_Jen said:


> my god that post is depressing! interesting points but still.. *goes to hide in dark corner...big dark corner haha*



Sorry to be such a Debby Downer Jen.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 13, 2008)

The Orange Mage said:


> My sexual desires (read: penis) may want a super-sized *body*, but I am VERY happy with the deliciously chubby *person* I happened to find. She's cute, we get along great, we've been together for over 2 years, and most importantly she doesn't hate her body. It's all this FA could ask for.
> *
> Essentially, I've got something that's more important than a recurring sexual fantasy. Waaayyyy more important. So I'm not complaining one bit*.




Thanks for this Mage  :bow:


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## Fascinita (Mar 13, 2008)

mossystate said:


> Ummmm, the fun bags are not visible. I cannot know if I was to _get_ to know you, if you don't lemme sneak a peak..:smitten:



Buy me dinner and _maybe_ we'll talk. :batting: Here's a glimpse of my happy-fun bags:

View attachment 38326


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 13, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> -a BBW can love herself, be confident and true to herself without being a
> man hater
> -a BBW has a right to control her own body
> -a BBW has a right to her opinions
> ...



Funny....take "BBW" out and simply add "woman" and it is still true  :bow:


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 13, 2008)

ashmamma84 said:


> I sort of understand what you are saying -- two of my friends are women who complain about being single and not attracting the type of man they want. They are two of the pickiest women, in terms of what they want from a man (as far as physicality and grooming are concerned)...and I've had to tell them that it's sort of hypocritical to have this thinking where your potential partner be "fresh to def" or dressed impeccably, yet when you walk out of the house, it looks as if you just rolled out of bed. I think they are starting to realize they can't have it both ways...and to some degree, it isn't right or wrong...it just is. People shouldn't expect something out of a potential mate that they aren't willing to do or step up to the plate for...
> 
> I don't really think it's always about looks, but to a certain degree if you are single and looking...you are in a way, selling yourself and part of that is what you look like...I mean, it's what a person sees first -- not your articulate prowess, big heart, and kind spirit. Personally, there's a sense of pride I get from dressing well...so much so that in a way it translates for me that I am actively engaging in self-care; the attention and time spent is not in vain even if no one compliments or notices, because I adore how I feel when I am coiffed and manicured.



I have to agree.....and have I told you lately what a classy Lady you are?


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 13, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Buy me dinner and _maybe_ we'll talk. :batting: Here's a glimpse of my happy-fun bags:
> 
> View attachment 38326




Can we split it? One fun bag for Mossy and the other for me? :batting:  :wubu:


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## Jes (Mar 13, 2008)

I SEE NO VITTI-ESQUE EYELINER.

thank you.


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## Fascinita (Mar 13, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Can we split it? One fun bag for Mossy and the other for me? :batting:  :wubu:




Yep, yep! Plenty o' fun to go around for everyone. 

For those requiring more eyeliner:

View attachment 38331


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## Tad (Mar 14, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Ed, are you really saying that if all fat women dressed more provocatively, we'd all be able to snag boyfriends and husbands? This scenario that you paint, with the crux hinging around this issue of women not making themselves attractive enough, really strikes me as so reductive. The implications are staggering--men (even fat-loving men) everywhere are drifting into less-than-satisfactory lifetime commitment simply because fat women are wearing baggy clothes? Doesn't that strike you as a kind of perverse logic? Besides which, any number of women here continue to hold that they like themselves just fine and are not trying to hide under baggy clothes. Fat women's fashion choices have increased since twenty years ago. And in any case, most fat women I know DO care about looking pretty and well-groomed in general and do want to be noticed, though probably not ogled and pawed. We walk a thin line, you know. Damned if you do sometimes, damned if you don't. Most fat women I know also have a lot of other things going on, so they are not _consumed_ by dressing to please others on a daily basis, as they go about living their lives. But it's _those very things that round them out as full humans _that you're ignoring in your analysis of why fat women are not as attractive to men (even self-professed fat-loving men) as thin women. To say that men are ending up with thin women because fat women wear baggy clothes seems absurd, unless what you mean is that men find thin women more attractive because fat women don't take care of themselves. If a lot of men really feel that way, I guess I'm surprised to hear it. Like I said, I know lots of pretty fat women who enjoy getting dolled up. I'm not sure I understand why the emphasis on women who don't want to be noticed and whether that can serve as an explanation of why men choose thin women over fat. Something just doesn't jibe.



This was taking one small part of what I said and setting it up as a straw man.

However you are totally correct that my use of 'baggy clothes' was poor. I was really thinking of my youth, when the styles were not at all baggy, so when you saw someone in baggy clothes it really seemed to scream "I don't want you to see my body." I probably should have said something less lost-in-time, along the lines of "dressed to avoid being noticed." (note that the point there was: did the young FA ever really notice that a BBW was around. Not what the BBW should have done or what the FA should have done, but what may have happened, and a lot of young men throughout history have mostly noticed the young women who wanted to be noticed).

I will not defend your straw man, as it does not represent what I said or what I think. I will point out the context that you omitted. Then, if you'd like to respond to my overall point, I'd be delighted to discuss it--I'm make no claim to knowing some deeper truth, I was offering an observation, and I do welcome differing viewpoints on it.

This thread is about FA who are in long term relationships with thin women. I was specifically talking about what might have happened with some of these FA when they were young, giving an example to counter what seemed to me to be a rather limited view of why they may have done such a thing. I don't believe that I ever said that all young FA behave this way, that this behavior is typical at all ages for FA, or that all FA had those experiences. I believe I even explicitly said that my example contained a lot of elements, and that I did not think you would normally find all of them in the story of any one FA in that situation. And in one response I listed many cases other than simply 'the BBW around the FA at that point were dressing not to be noticed.'

I also very deliberately did not make any value judgments on the behavior of the characters in the example. I was not intending to say that anyone was right or wrong, simply to say 'this may have happened.' I don't see a lot of point in making value judgments on things that happened years ago. However it seems that a lot of people want there to be a value judgment in there somewhere  So, to be clear, here is my feelings on it: I was talking about the FA, and as the main character in their own story, they have to take the blame for the outcome. In that example the FA was 'guilty' of being short sighted, lazy, and being too unwilling to face up to problems. As a character seen in only in passing it is hard to blame the BBW for anything, but I suppose you could say that she was 'guilty' of worrying more about minimizing the bad than about maximizing the good. But given that I was talking about people in their late teens and early twenties, those faults are probably more typical than not, so I personally I think pity and compassion are more appropriate responses that condemnation. Although the result may be, a decade down the road, a lot of unhappiness all around, it is not something where I think there is clear blame to assign. Sometime big problems grow from innocuous errors, in the way that one gene getting switched on or off in one cell can lead to very serious cancer.

So, to summarize: 
- I was offering a typical example of what some of this particular sub-set of FA experienced.
- I do not think that behavior is universal to all FA, or even typical of FA at all ages.
- If you insist I assign blame, I'd say the FA should shoulder the most of it, but I don't think blame is useful here.

As an aside, if anyone would like to offer examples of how BBW end up in relationships with people aren't FA and who don't accept their size, I'd love to hear them--although that is probably a different thread.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 14, 2008)

> As an aside, if anyone would like to offer examples of how BBW end up in relationships with people aren't FA and who don't accept their size, I'd love to hear them--although that is probably a different thread.



It's been pointed out that only in modern times has marriage been based on a traditional Western/21st Century notion of romantic love. Marriage was traditionally promoted to create stable families, to ensure the passing down of property, and to promote relgious/ethnic unity. Marriages were typically arranged by family elders and based on what the families thought would be mutually advantageous. So it's a pretty newfangled notion that sexual attraction is, or should be a factor.

I personally know two long term couples whose partnerships are based on the parties' desires for children and raising them in a stable family with similar religious values. Neither is a couple you envision swinging from chadeliers, but in each case, the unions were based on similar values and expectations, and they are satsified with what they have. It is entirely possible, and i daresay even reasonable to pursue a partnership based on something apart from sexual attraction.

Nowadays, though, it seems as thought the imperative for forming relationships, and for their success if placed on the female's shoulders. I think that's where your post struck a chord; telling fat women that if a relationship was not there, it has to be something she did. Or even worse, sort of saying "If you wanted a relationship, you have control over it happening or not. If it didn't, it's likely how you dressed or acted." Plenty of women dress in a multitude of ways and have a multitude of attitudes from "life of the party" to "wallflower." Many wallflowers are happily married and lives of the party unhappily single (or of course in many cases, unhappily married.) I have no doubt for every man who didn't approach a fat woman clad in baggy clothes because she did not look interested, there are fat women clad in hip huggers and tight lycra tops who were passed over because their confidence scared the guys away.

The baggy clothes/attitude reminds me a lot of women being castigated for pursuing careers at the expense of marriage. I know plenty of women who pursue careers or school, but if they are single it is not because they are telling the legions of wonderful straight single men who are calling them "Sorry....career.....", it's because for one reason or another, they and those terrific men are not connecting.


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## elle camino (Mar 14, 2008)

edx said:


> As an aside, if anyone would like to offer examples of how BBW end up in relationships with people aren't FA and who don't accept their size, I'd love to hear them--although that is probably a different thread.


because for a lot of us, it's that or nothing.


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## Fascinita (Mar 15, 2008)

edx said:


> This was taking one small part of what I said and setting it up as a straw man.
> 
> So, to summarize:
> - I was offering a typical example of what some of this particular sub-set of FA experienced.
> ...



I can appreciate that you offered your explanation as part of what some men experience. In response, I took you to task for your example, drawing out what specifically I saw as misguided about it. That's not the same thing as setting up a straw man. A straw man would consist of me deliberately presenting a distortion of what you'd said in order to prove you wrong. 

In fact, I think the only rights and wrongs here are when people refuse to listen to what "the other side" is saying. I see this thread as an opportunity to air out opinions and anxieties, and maybe iron out some misconceptions. It's an opportunity to communicate, nothing more. 

My intention was not to distort what you said. My intention was to respond to one of the points you've drawn out most fully and consistently--that of men falling into relationships with thin women because fat women don't make themselves noticed. I'm more interested in dialogue than in debate, when it comes to this topic. I hope that I've made that clear, if only through the sheer number of questions I've continued to pose. At times I realize that my tone may come across as heated, but I wont' apologize for that. You have your way, and I have mine. In any case, I don't believe I've been disrespectful to anyone.

I like and respect you, ed, and I'm just trying to do my part to keep things real in what I feel is an important conversation. I honestly do hope that we can continue to dialogue and that there's room for all who have an opinion here--no matter how unpopular--to come to the discussion table as long as they do so respectfully.

Thanks for your reply.

PS--I'll point out that your last paragraph is a red herring, by the way.


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 16, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> I can appreciate that you offered your explanation as part of what some men experience. In response, I took you to task for your example, drawing out what specifically I saw as misguided about it. That's not the same thing as setting up a straw man. A straw man would consist of me deliberately presenting a distortion of what you'd said in order to prove you wrong.
> 
> In fact, I think the only rights and wrongs here are when people refuse to listen to what "the other side" is saying. I see this thread as an opportunity to air out opinions and anxieties, and maybe iron out some misconceptions. It's an opportunity to communicate, nothing more.
> 
> ...



I feel that a lot has been fixated on a part of the story that was arbitrary. It was never meant to be a sublte part of the commentary on our culture but merely a crude descriptive item and nothing more. If I talked about giving a gift of equal value, for example, and said Mary gave 3 raspberries while Joe gave 3 gold rings it would be my attempt to show an example of how equal may not be equal at all. It is not a subtle hint that Mary is only good enough to muster up three raspberries or a missive towards the women that post here or like raspberries. The baggy clothes reference was merely a demonstration of standoffishness often cited as a common tool by many women of all pursuasions. It was not a proclamation of what women should be wearing. For most people it was not a distraction or a missive towards baggy clothes. It was allegorical.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 16, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> I feel that a lot has been fixated on a part of the story that was arbitrary. It was never meant to be a sublte part of the commentary on our culture but merely a crude descriptive item and nothing more. If I talked about giving a gift of equal value, for example, and said Mary gave 3 raspberries while Joe gave 3 gold rings it would be my attempt to show an example of how equal may not be equal at all. It is not a subtle hint that Mary is only good enough to muster up three raspberries or a missive towards the women that post here or like raspberries. The baggy clothes reference was merely a demonstration of standoffishness often cited as a common tool by many women of all pursuasions. It was not a proclamation of what women should be wearing. For most people it was not a distraction or a missive towards baggy clothes. It was allegorical.




I have to agree.....I do have to wonder if too much was read into it. Ed doesn't seem to be the kind of man to tell women what to wear. I think he just chose an example...and was trying to show it through the eyes of a young, college aged man and what they might think/feel. He said this in one of his first posts....about how some FAs first hook up with thinner women at very young ages, when they are more easily "misguided". 
A young man might give a damn about baggy clothes. I don't think Ed really would, not as a mature man now, anyway. I took it that he just used it as part of his attempt to explain things from a male viewpoint. 
There were a lot of things that I saw differently, considered important or worthwhile and worried/fretted over at age 19/20/21 that I wouldn't think twice about at age 39. I know it's the same for a lot of people. Perhaps Ed was trying to say that some of the younger men don't really know their ass from a hole in the ground (in a much nicer way than I just said it ) and more easily fall into less than satisfactory relationships more easily than a mature/older man. I know this holds true for me, as well. I know what I want much better now approaching middle age....and I'm much more willing/wiser about holding out for it, than I did fresh in my 20s. 


Also, I want to add that I consider Ed one of the nicer/classier/respectful males on the forum.....


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## butch (Mar 16, 2008)

I don't think anyone was attacking Ed's character or his standing in this community, or thinking ill thoughts about him at all. I know I wasn't, but his initial example was unclear, and so I interpreted it as a FFA myself, who never had a problem, at 19 or at 35, seeing the fat folks in my mist and finding them attractive regardless of what they were wearing.

Certainly we can all find other's expressions unclear or contray to our own lived experiences, and in a respectful, probing manner (which is something that I value about all Ed's posts, his willingness to think deeply and at length about the issue at hand), can't we engage in debate about these issues, especially if they might help clarify why dating and mating can be such a fraught process for all of us, fat, thin, F(F)A or whatnot? 

Not always seeing eye to eye doesn't mean we're attacking an individual, and it doesn't mean we're itching for a fight. It might just mean we want to be as clear and understanding about a POV different from our own. Its all about finding common ground, isn't it?

Again, I'm not trying to make anyone feel picked on or excluded, and if I have, I apologize-that was not my intent. I've certainly engaged in intense debates plenty of times here on the boards, and I rarely go away from them thinking someone was out to attack me as a person just because they disagree with my opinions, even if it can feel bruising at times. That is one of the things I really like about this place, that we can have intense, freewheeling debates of substance, and I often come away from those with a new perspective or a new understanding of how others think and live.


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## mossystate (Mar 16, 2008)

I do know what I read and how, when it was ' clarified ', I still see the same energy. That other people see it a different way, changes nothing for me...and that's ok.


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## The Orange Mage (Mar 19, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Nowadays, though, it seems as thought the imperative for forming relationships, and for their success if placed on the female's shoulders. I think that's where your post struck a chord; telling fat women that if a relationship was not there, it has to be something she did. Or even worse, sort of saying "If you wanted a relationship, you have control over it happening or not. If it didn't, it's likely how you dressed or acted." Plenty of women dress in a multitude of ways and have a multitude of attitudes from "life of the party" to "wallflower." Many wallflowers are happily married and lives of the party unhappily single (or of course in many cases, unhappily married.) I have no doubt for every man who didn't approach a fat woman clad in baggy clothes because she did not look interested, there are fat women clad in hip huggers and tight lycra tops who were passed over because their confidence scared the guys away.



The whole thing smells of...well, the male thought process circa freshman year of high school.


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## bigcutiekitkat (Mar 21, 2008)

If a man can not truly accept what he likes in a woman either, it truly is he who has the problem. He needs to realize that if this what he likes, than he should not be afraid of it. Why should one hide of their likes, because it is not socially correct to date a bbw/ssbbw?

As far as I am concerned he is a weak man if this the case, and needs to really take a good look at his beliefs ! If he is afraid as to how his friends and family will react towards her than that is a problem he needs to deal with himself. Who wants to be with a man like that..I certainly don't !! He needs to accept me for who I am and all my rolls that go with me ! Do I hear a amen !


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## Jes (Mar 21, 2008)

Preach it!


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 21, 2008)

I want to see Jes's fun bags now.......:blush:


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## Chimpi (Mar 23, 2008)

I have just now read this entire thread.



LillyBBBW said:


> I feel that a lot has been fixated on a part of the story that was arbitrary. It was never meant to be a sublte part of the commentary on our culture but merely a crude descriptive item and nothing more. If I talked about giving a gift of equal value, for example, and said Mary gave 3 raspberries while Joe gave 3 gold rings it would be my attempt to show an example of how equal may not be equal at all. It is not a subtle hint that Mary is only good enough to muster up three raspberries or a missive towards the women that post here or like raspberries. The baggy clothes reference was merely a demonstration of standoffishness often cited as a common tool by many women of all pursuasions. It was not a proclamation of what women should be wearing. For most people it was not a distraction or a missive towards baggy clothes. It was allegorical.



I understood that about edx's post as well, Lilly. You have stated it much better than I ever could. 

Where I have nothing much new to contribute to the thread at this time, I would like to chime in and say that I think edx gave some superb examples of what might have happened with some, as well as extend a big smile towards Zoner for sharing his story. I also think the times are now very different than they were back in the early-mid nineties and earlier. It is much easier to be an "out of the closet 'Fat Admirer'" now than every before, and hopefully that trend continues to smash through the unacceptable. I hope we also continue to see an increasing number of fat women whose dreams do come true and are able to participate in relationships that they consider to be plentiful and exceptional.
Where I cannot share the same feelings towards "closeted 'Fat Admirers'" as some others, I would like to see more men going after those they truly want to go after; as well as women going after those they truly want to go after. I consider myself to be a person that sees men and women equally, and find it fascinating that many people believe that "men are supposed to be the pursuers." Not that I have not understood this to be the most common trend (men being the pursuers), I would like to witness more women going after men they are interested in.
Naturally, I can also understand that it can be hurtful, painful, and bruising to go after some one you are interested in only to be insulted in return and be seen as a disgusting person. But, I think with an increasing number of popular beliefs that "fat women are beautiful" also comes a greater universal sweep of acceptance for fat people in general. I would not directly relate the two, but I think that the more acceptable it is to be fat, be seen with a fat person, date a fat person, etc..., it is also to be seen that fewer men will end up dating/marrying thinner women (that complain about it).
Although I know it is _not_ the case, I would like to think that it should be more black and white - if you like some one, go for it. If not, don't go for it. If you wind up dating some one you're not physically attracted to, either deal with it or find something new (which can be beneficial for both parties). There's so much to gain out of a happy and fulfilling relationship. Everyone should be able to experience those joys.


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## Paquito (Mar 23, 2008)

Ughh just people in general - with any kind of preferences who choose not to asct on them and bitch about - annoy me. Hello, have you not seen the gorgeous BBWs on this site and out there? Don't care if you wanted to be treated "normal" and are socially accepted, I think your not an FA (or a real man) for doing that, more of weak child.

That being said, all the beautiful girls that have faced that, come over to my place, I'll show you how a real FA treats a lady


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## 1love_emily (Dec 12, 2010)

I think that some believe that it is socially taboo to date larger women.

Look at the media - how many times are lead characters protrayed as large? Or hell, even average! All of the "beautiful princesses" that people (or just me) have watched in Disney movies have been disproportionately tiny. Look at Barbie. Look at all these things.

It's considered bad in our culture to put someone out there who is a big, beautiful, fat lead. There never are... 

I do believe that fat acceptance is a more recent movement... it's something that developers have yet to fully grasp. Once we can universally accept that fat is becoming beautiful, then we will see more "in-closet" FAs come out 

But...

I think some chose to complain because they are unhappy. They don't have what they want, but because of the taboo, they don't feel it's possible to have what they truly want.

As a single BBW, I know that I understand.

There's a taboo for me to date skinnny, popular guys. That's who I want to date. Instead, people always set me up on dates with the dopey, nerdy, slightly cute guys - which isn't going to work for me. I want someone specific, yet I feel like I can't go ahead and ask them, because it's against the status quo for someone like "him" to go with someone like "me"..

So let's change this! :bounce:


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## superodalisque (Dec 12, 2010)

i think that guys do that simply because they are unhappy for sure. those who do this even though they are in a loving relationship are depressingly weak selfish and immature. my experience has been that a lot of men who complain about their partner's body or their sex life in public expect to get a little on the side no matter her size. they are just casting about for someone who has low enough self esteem and little enough respect for another woman's marriage to bite out of competition and desperation. i have just about as much respect for them as people going around complaining that their SO is too fat--which is none.


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## Jes (Dec 13, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i think that guys do that simply because they are unhappy for sure. those who do this even though they are in a loving relationship are depressingly weak selfish and immature. .



WORD UP, Cameo!


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## Power_Metal_Kitsune (Dec 13, 2010)

I don't even think about it anymore. I have gained weight since my kidney transplant and am once again a small BBW. The male interest has disappeared and at this point, who gives a shit? If these guys want to stay in the closet, fine. It's not like I even want to date anymore after my breakup, what with 3 guys saying they want to go out, and then one drops off the face of the earth, one gives me a fake number, and one never calls. I get the hint, fat women are socially unacceptable as dates, but it's ok to talk dirty to us on the phone, use us to stroke your ego, and lie to us to make yourself look better than you are. Honestly, there is no such thing as a real FA and if there is, he's taken or defective in some way. Accept it, I have.


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## 1love_emily (Dec 14, 2010)

Power_Metal_Kitsune said:


> Honestly, there is no such thing as a real FA and if there is, he's taken or defective in some way. Accept it, I have.



I couldn't disagree more. 

As a high school student, I understand the feeling of rejection. I know what it's like to have people just not want to date you because your fat. I get that... I really do

But that doesn't mean they're not all taken or "defective". 

There are obviously a TON of FAs out in the worlds (especially here on DIMs) that all want us BBWs. We can't give up hope because of one or two or three rejections. If everyone gave up with everything did because of three rejections, what world we have? A world where everyone sat back and "accepted" something lousy. 

I refuse

There's a boy on this site who I feel like I might have a chance with. I'm going to pursue him. He's a single, attractive FA. He's not defective.


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## Byagi (Dec 14, 2010)

I only read the first few pages of this thread, because it's LONG. I think maybe some people just want attention, so they complain. 

Maybe I'm an optimist, but I think most people are pretty open when it comes to matters of love (or lust, I suppose). I don't think I've ever given myself specific constraints one way or the other when it comes to who I choose to date, or love, or be around. It's run the spectrum. I feel like that's the best way to figure out who you are and what you ultimately want. I've dated more voluptuous, beautiful BBWs and I've dated amazing girls that are thin. I think it more comes down to the guy not knowing himself. Of course, it's my opinion, but you can't categorize people one way or another, because in my experience, everyone has so much to give if you allow them a chance.


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## JonesT (Dec 17, 2010)

I have dated a few thinner women in the past but honestly I was never physically attracted to them like I am attracted to BBWs


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## TimeTraveller (Dec 17, 2010)

As I peruse the various topics one recurrent theme is men who love fat women but cave in and date or marry thin women because that's what society or peer pressure tell them they should. I met the love of my life in 2nd grade, she happened to be fat, and came hell or high water, that's who I married. For guys who can't quite come to grips with their desire for fat women, maybe formal training is necessary, like a hypothetical course in Fat Admiration 101 in _The Paper Chase_:

Professor Kingsfield: "You come in here with a skull full of mush, and if you survive, you'll leave thinking like a Fat Admirer." 

No, we need something more drastic. We need Boot Camp for Fat Admirers! Picture these scenes from _Full Belly Jacket_:

Gunnery Sergeant F.A. Ermey: "I'm Gunnery Sergeant F.A. Ermey, your senior drill instructor. From now on you will speak only when spoken to, and the first and the last word out of your filthy sewers will be 'Sir'. Do you maggots understand that?"
Recruits: "Sir! Yes Sir!"
Gunnery Sergeant F.A. Ermey: "I can't hear you!"
Recruits: "SIR! YES SIR!"
Gunnery Sergeant F.A. Ermey: "If you leave my island, if you survive recruit training, you will be a Fat Admirer and you will treat Fat Women with the Love, Dignity and Respect they deserve. You will also learn you should not and will not treat Fat Women as your own personal sex toys because then you are the lowest effing form of vermin on Earth. You will not string them along and you will have no wimpy fear of commitment. You will not date or marry Thin Women and continue to chase Fat Women on the side. You will be man enough to fully embrace Fat Women in all their splendor. But until you graduate you are nothing but unorganized varmints tormented between your desire for Fat Women and your insecurity that society or your family or your effing so-called buddies will disapprove. What the hell do those bastards know? Because I am hard you will not like me. But the more you hate me the more you will learn. I am hard but I am fair. And my orders are break down all your prejudices, indecisions and inner torments, and make you into full-blooded Fat Admirers. Do you maggots understand that?"
Recruits: "Sir! Yes Sir!"
Gunnery Sergeant F.A. Ermey: "I can't hear you!"
Recruits: "SIR! YES SIR!"
Gunnery Sergeant F.A. Ermey: "And if by some un-effing-believable miracle you meet the love of your life, and it is only an un-effing-believable coincidence she is Midsize or Supersize or Hypersize, then you are definitely born again hard. Hell, I may even let you serve in my beloved corps."

Four weeks later:

Recruits: "I don't know but I've been told, fat girls have a heart of gold! I don't know but now I see, fat girls are the girls for me!"

Four more weeks later:

Gunnery Sergeant F.A. Ermey: "Today, you people are no longer maggots. Today, you are Fat Admirers. You're part of a brotherhood. From now on until the day you die, wherever you are, every Fat Admirer is your brother. Most of you will go into fat-phobic society. Some of you will not survive. But always remember this: Fat Admirers truly love Fat Women. That's what we're here for. Fat Admiration lives forever. And that means YOU live forever."


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## Emma (Dec 17, 2010)

necrooooooooposttttttt.


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## BBW_Curious1 (Dec 17, 2010)

What about the flip side of this coin? Men who date/marry BBW/SSBBW and then complain or try to "drop hints" about losing weight??


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## fatgirl04 (Dec 17, 2010)

BBW_Curious1 said:


> What about the flip side of this coin? Men who date/marry BBW/SSBBW and then complain or try to "drop hints" about losing weight??



Also, isn't that the same as a women expecting a man to change for her once they are married or in a committed relationship.

Its the whole "once a cheater, always a cheater" argument - people don't change unless they want to, so if they are embarrassed about dating fat men or fat women, they will always cave to societies strictures, unless they themselves want to break on free to the other side [so to speak].


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## coyote wild (Dec 18, 2010)

Admittedly, I just kind of skimmed this thread. But I'm throwing in my perspective.

I haven't been single for very long, but I've kinda promised myself that my next girlfriend would not weigh less than 200lbs. It's not a shallow thing (or hey, I guess it is, but whatever); women of all sizes are beautiful, but my damn libido only accepts a certain size. I can't help it. In fact, I fucking hate it right now, because otherwise I might still be with my last girlfriend, but that's another story.

But truth be told, I do love my love for fat women. I just never knew how important it was going to be to me in the future. And while I've never officially "come out" about my preference, I don't feel the need to hide it, either.

I feel like it's kind of important to embrace FA-ness, if for no other reason than to make it easier to account for how many of us are out there.

So this is me. Just a couple of months into my quest for the BBW I've always wanted. Where are you?


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## StickMan (Feb 9, 2011)

There is another possibility. My case: I've only seriously dated thin girls (had a fling with a BBW which went nowhere when she turned out to be smotheringly annoying, if rather hot. But I digress) because they're pretty much the only one's who will go out with me. There have been precisely three girls with self-esteem low enough to go out with me, and one was the aforementioned fling. The other two are/were skinny as rails and hell-bent on staying that way. I've made up my mind to pretty much stop looking for a relationship, seeing as my ratio of success currently stands at around 4:1 against.

Crap, I'm one of those "Woe is me" guys, aren't I?


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## mossystate (Feb 10, 2011)

StickMan said:


> There is another possibility. My case: I've only seriously dated thin girls (had a fling with a BBW which went nowhere when she turned out to be smotheringly annoying, if rather hot. But I digress) because they're pretty much the only one's who will go out with me. There have been precisely three girls with self-esteem low enough to go out with me, and one was the aforementioned fling. The other two are/were skinny as rails and hell-bent on staying that way. I've made up my mind to pretty much stop looking for a relationship, seeing as my ratio of success currently stands at around 4:1 against.
> 
> Crap, I'm one of those "Woe is me" guys, aren't I?



Maybe you should look into upping your own self-esteem and what you bring to the table, so you would be more attractive to more women. And I am not even getting the " hell-bent " comment.


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## Rowan (Feb 10, 2011)

StickMan said:


> There is another possibility. My case: I've only seriously dated thin girls (had a fling with a BBW which went nowhere when she turned out to be smotheringly annoying, if rather hot. But I digress) because they're pretty much the only one's who will go out with me. There have been precisely three girls with self-esteem low enough to go out with me, and one was the aforementioned fling. The other two are/were skinny as rails and hell-bent on staying that way. I've made up my mind to pretty much stop looking for a relationship, seeing as my ratio of success currently stands at around 4:1 against.
> 
> Crap, I'm one of those "Woe is me" guys, aren't I?





mossystate said:


> Maybe you should look into upping your own self-esteem and what you bring to the table, so you would be more attractive to more women. And I am not even getting the " hell-bent " comment.



I second this Mossy! Rep for you


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## truebebeblue (Feb 10, 2011)

I think its pretty easy..... young guy (under about 22ish) could be simple lack of self knowledge. After about that age it's probably just an annoying character flaw or a helpful giant red flag. Or he could genuuinely live in one of those places ravaged by famine that have NO fat women to date(but still has easy internet access).... apparently this happens a lot to our poor thin dating dims men. It's very sad,I might create a ribbon.


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## superodalisque (Feb 10, 2011)

truebebeblue said:


> I think its pretty easy..... young guy (under about 22ish) could be simple lack of self knowledge. After about that age it's probably just an annoying character flaw or a helpful giant red flag. Or he could genuuinely live in one of those places ravaged by famine that have NO fat women to date(but still has easy internet access).... apparently this happens a lot to our poor thin dating dims men. It's very sad,I might create a ribbon.



i know! the famine seems to be rampant doesn't it, even in countries with an epidemic of obesity.


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## superodalisque (Feb 10, 2011)

StickMan said:


> There is another possibility. My case: I've only seriously dated thin girls (had a fling with a BBW which went nowhere when she turned out to be smotheringly annoying, if rather hot. But I digress) because they're pretty much the only one's who will go out with me. There have been precisely three girls with self-esteem low enough to go out with me, and one was the aforementioned fling. The other two are/were skinny as rails and hell-bent on staying that way. I've made up my mind to pretty much stop looking for a relationship, seeing as my ratio of success currently stands at around 4:1 against.
> 
> Crap, I'm one of those "Woe is me" guys, aren't I?



yeah. i think this is typical of that . a lot of guys keep dating women with low self esteem because thats whats really attracting them even when they complain about it. i notice that they often run when they happen on women who do have self esteem because that means they really have to live up to something. they have to bring something to the table. after all, if women have low self esteem they'll accept a lot of bs and make lots of excuse for a guys short comings. besides that a lot of guys have an excuse to deal with women without ever attempting a relationship since just maybe deep down they don't really actually want one anyway. i don't trust any man who says he can't find a decent woman to date. there are just too many great women around for that to be true, especially when they start acting as though every fat woman has low self esteem or a crazily flawed character of some sort. i have a few guy friends who are like that. usually after i know them for a while i discover the problem was him the whole time.


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## butch (Feb 11, 2011)

truebebeblue said:


> Or he could genuuinely live in one of those places ravaged by famine that have NO fat women to date(but still has easy internet access).... apparently this happens a lot to our poor thin dating dims men. It's very sad,I might create a ribbon.



This continues to make me chuckle-i will proudly wear your ribbon!

:bow:


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## KittyKitten (Feb 17, 2011)

Alot of males (not men) are weak. They may have sex with someone that turns them on, but in public, they go with the status quo. It is disgusting, in my opinion to do that to a woman, and it leads to unhappiness with the man. Most males grow out of this immature stage when they become older in their late 30s and 40s; some never grow out of it.

I wouldn't be suprised if many of the men on the paysite boards jack off to the 500 lbs vixens on there but are married to 200 pounders or less.

A man that truly respects and admires you will show you off in public and not be ashamed. No man better not be ashamed of me!


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## Tracyarts (Feb 17, 2011)

" I wouldn't be suprised if many of the men on the paysite boards jack off to the 500 lbs vixens on there but are married to 200 pounders or less. "

I overheard a man at one of the size acceptance events I went to in the '90's telling another man how he would come to the conventions and bashes to fuck supersized women, but in his real life he only dated midsized women. They were still fat enough to be attractive to him, but not too fat to be socially acceptable date material. He said that he felt no need to wear his fetish on his sleeve for the whole world to see. That if he were into BDSM, he would not feel obligated to walk around in his leathers, so why should he walk around in public with a SSBBW? 

I thought it was pretty offensive, but he did have a point with his BDSM analogy. And fetishes, porn preferences, and fantasy fuckables don't necessarily have anything to do with relationships. 

Tracy


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## JulieD (Feb 17, 2011)

First let me start off by saying that what I am about to say does not pertain to all males or all females, but I know for a fact that it does pertain to some on this board.

Men are self centered and women are needy. 

I know for a fact that I am not a fetish, I am a woman. A confident, happy, intelligent, sexy woman who does not need a man to take care of me. This ladies, this is where we fuck up. We allow men to stick their wieners inside of us because he has money, or looks good, or is charming and tells us what we want to hear. We allow men with a "fatty" fetish to abuse us and use us for exactly that. Then men tend to think that it is ok to fuck us and leave us...then go out and wine and dine an average sized female. Fuck that. If we would not allow them to use us in this way, then they would not do so. If we did not allow them to subjectify us as women, then they wouldn't. But, its not that easy, simply because loneliness sucks. Women are weak and insecure, end up giving in, if for even an hour of being made to feel like they are loved... although its fake love. I have done it, I will admit, but I will also admit that I am a lot stronger then I was and have learned a lot in my life. So, now I refuse to be with a man, if for even only one night, that does not first respect me, and second truly care for me. People are attracted to all different shapes, sizes, and colors...peoples desires and wants change all the time. There are men out their who truly desire to be with us, who are confident enough as a man, that they don't care what all the other, non-confident people think. There are men who would be proud to have a bbw/ssbbw on their arm, showing her off to the world, proving to the world that this sexy lady is his and she makes him happy. But ladies, that man is going to have to come to the realization that we are the only kind of female that makes him happy. If we keep giving it to him, with out him ever having to face this fact...then we will always be his fetish. This is why men date thinner girls and come creeping back to our beds talking about how they missed our bodies, our warmth, our softness... all of the big girl hugs and big girl lovin'. I guess this is true in life as it is anywhere...people will treat you the way you allow them to. If you are one of those people who is sick of being taken advantage of, don't allow anyone to take advantage of you. If you are being abused, don't allow it to happen. We as females are the strongest creatures in the world... we are amazing, and if we do not extrude that amazement, then who is ever going to notice? 

And now a big girl thank you to all of the FAs who realize that we are amazing women and that you cant live without us... Thanks :happy:

To all the creepers and lurkers who have been members for 3 years but never post and only hang out to get your jollies off...grow some. Get over yourself and what you think everyone else is thinking, and accept who you are attracted to. You will be much happier in the end..trust me


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## Jes (Feb 17, 2011)

JulieD said:


> To all the creepers and lurkers who have been members for 3 years but never post and only hang out to get your jollies off...grow some. Get over yourself and what you think everyone else is thinking, and accept who you are attracted to. You will be much happier in the end..trust me



Yes and no.

Someone much smarter than am I espoused the idea that there are fat wankers who will never be fat fuckers and fat fuckers who will never be fat daters. The second case, I understand (though it disappoints me horribly) but I never knew the first kind existed. But she's right and they do.

The truth that many of us (esp. women) don't seem to get, or want to get, is that for many, many people, THIS (i.e., sitting at home, looking at words or typing words, but nothing else) is the EXACT level of social interaction they want. They're not closeted FAs, or men who need encouragement or berating. This is it. THIS IS IT. They don't WANT a deeper connection. In fact, they're here, online, because this is all they want. 

If we want someone we know goes out and socializes and is (hopefully!) available, then maybe OUT not IN is where we need to be looking.


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## bigsexy920 (Feb 17, 2011)

Ive heard things like this from men as well. But they actually said it to ME not sure if they thought I was a "passer" or they didn't care that they were offending me



Tracyarts said:


> I overheard a man at one of the size acceptance events I went to in the '90's telling another man how he would come to the conventions and bashes to fuck supersized women, but in his real life he only dated midsized women. They were still fat enough to be attractive to him, but not too fat to be socially acceptable date material. He said that he felt no need to wear his fetish on his sleeve for the whole world to see. That if he were into BDSM, he would not feel obligated to walk around in his leathers, so why should he walk around in public with a SSBBW?
> 
> I thought it was pretty offensive, but he did have a point with his BDSM analogy. And fetishes, porn preferences, and fantasy fuckables don't necessarily have anything to do with relationships.
> 
> Tracy


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## Never2fat4me (Feb 25, 2011)

JulieD said:


> First let me start off by saying that what I am about to say does not pertain to all males or all females, but I know for a fact that it does pertain to some on this board.
> 
> Men are self centered and women are needy.
> 
> ...



This has got to be one of the best posts ever! :bow: (Tried to rep but need to spread some around before I give it again to you, Julie.)

You are totally right about men and women (in general, of course!). I think it comes down to both sexes are weak and have needs they want met. In men it is the physical (i.e., sex) and in women it is the emotional (i.e., love), and we each give to the other - or at least pretend to give - what it is they want in return for what we want. That is to say, a lot of men give "love" to a woman they want to get in bed and a lot of women consent to having sex because they want to be in a relationship with a guy. I am very much ashamed to say it - and I hope others don't hold my past against me - but I can be honest enough to admit to having played that game in my younger days. Now that I am older - and hopefully wiser - I know that I need more than just a good lay and I enjoy the companionship of a loving, funny woman.

But back to the topic, I have never felt the need to date a thin woman - and never have (I have dated only a couple of "average" size women, and that was because I thought they were really nice people despite not being really attracted to them physically) - so I am not talking from experience. But I agree with the issue of pressure to conform to society's norms probably being the biggest factor. There is a good thread here on "coming out" as an FA, and it isn't easy. Wouldn't want to suggest it is anywhere near as hard as dealing with prejudices felt by SSBBWs - that is something you cannot hide, unlike being an FA - but there is a lot of pressure to conform and dating SSBBW is definitely not part of that. 

Personally, I feel great pride in having an SSBBW on my arm. I imagine it must be just like a guy dating a supermodel would feel, knowing how envious everyone is of me getting to be with the woman whose hand I am holding. Logically, I know they aren't jealous - and some are probably revolted - but that is how I feel in my heart. And I think it is too bad that there are a lot of weak guys out there who hide how they feel and don't get to experience the freedom that I do or the joy of dating a beautiful SSBBW.

Chris


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