# Racism - In The Plus Sized Community



## Raqui (May 19, 2008)

RACISM - IN THE PLUS SIZED COMMUNITY

We go through Racism in daily life sometimes. But how does this affect a community such as ours. Fat crosses all lines and we are hated in general. Are the statments true? Are certain acts racist or are they just preference? Is being fat easier for certain races? How can we leave race behind on the path to size acceptance? LOOKING FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS TOUCHY SUBJECT!!!!

NEXT WEEKS SHOW! - Racism In The Fat Community! 
Yes this is online radio which means anyone from anywhere in the world can listen live and CALL IN or ask questions in the CHAT ROOM!!!
Come on my Radio Show to talk about this topic from 
6-8pm eastern, 3-5 pacific, 4-6 mountain, 5-7 central. 
This is when the show is live, but don't worry if you happen to miss it the show is recorded and set up to listen to at any time!  

Visit My archived Radio Show - www.blogtalkradio.com/LargeInChargeRadio 

give me some thoughts and opinions here I would love to bring it up on the show. Looking forward to your thoughts 

Raqui


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## exile in thighville (May 19, 2008)

I think it's smart to suggest that in white America one of the fears of assimilating fat is that it would help validate the two most feared cultures in the country...latinos and blacks, unsuprisingly the most well-known cultural advocates of larger citizens.


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## mergirl (May 19, 2008)

i was thinking about preference the other day when i was chatting with my friend online and she happened to say that she "wasnt usually attracted to black guys". I thought this was pretty weird and wondered if there was some underlying prejudiced feelings or fears attached to her statement. But i know she isnt racist/has black friends etc, so it made me wonder why it made my hackles stand up a bit. I get the same feeling if someone says they arnt really attracted to big women/men. But then everyone has thier preferences i guess. I'm dont really identify as being "white" as i'm kinna sallow skinned because my dads family are roma (another persicuted race; see recent burning down of roma camps in newly fashist run italy) ..the point is, whenever i have dated people and i ask them what famous people they find attractive they say people like michelle rodreges etc and people who have the same skin tone/ eye colour as me... it doesnt make me feel threatened, infact it makes me happy that i'm thier "type".
i find it strange though, because i dont have a skintone preference..i dont really understand. But then again preference is subjective..
I think though you will find greater size acceptance dependent on where you live but i dont think that that is dependant on the amount of fat people that live there..
For instance, the whole fat acceptance movement hasnt really reached scotland though i think at the moment we are the third fattest nation in the world! whoot!
Then in many places in africa fat women are deemed as more attractive than thin women but there are fewer large women in these countries. (well in relation to the U.S and UK).
good luck with your radio show. great topic. i shall try to tune in when i remember which time zone i belong to!! lmao

xxmer


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## Ned Sonntag (May 19, 2008)

mergirl said:


> i was thinking about preference the other day when i was chatting with my friend online and she happened to say that she "wasnt usually attracted to black guys". I thought this was pretty weird and wondered if there was some underlying prejudiced feelings or fears attached to her statement. But i know she isnt racist/has black friends etc, so it made me wonder why it made my hackles stand up a bit. I get the same feeling if someone says they arnt really attracted to big women/men. But then everyone has thier preferences i guess. I'm dont really identify as being "white" as i'm kinna sallow skinned because my dads family are roma (another persicuted race; see recent burning down of roma camps in newly fashist run italy) ..the point is, whenever i have dated people and i ask them what famous people they find attractive they say people like michelle rodreges etc and people who have the same skin tone/ eye colour as me... it doesnt make me feel threatened, infact it makes me happy that i'm thier "type".
> i find it strange though, because i dont have a skintone preference..i dont really understand. But then again preference is subjective..
> I think though you will find greater size acceptance dependent on where you live but i dont think that that is dependant on the amount of fat people that live there..
> For instance, the whole fat acceptance movement hasnt really reached scotland though i think at the moment we are the third fattest nation in the world! whoot!
> ...


 Johnny Depp plays a 'Gypsy' equestrian in this Christina Ricci picture...


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## mergirl (May 19, 2008)

Ned Sonntag said:


> Johnny Depp plays a 'Gypsy' equestrian in this Christina Ricci picture...


ahh he also plays a traveller in chocolat. I was going to say he was typecast perhaps but then he has also played a pirate and an excentric chocolate factory owner.. he is great! I fell out with miss ricci though when she got her breast reduction! lol

xmer


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## LillyBBBW (May 19, 2008)

mergirl said:


> i was thinking about preference the other day when i was chatting with my friend online and she happened to say that she "wasnt usually attracted to black guys". I thought this was pretty weird and wondered if there was some underlying prejudiced feelings or fears attached to her statement. But i know she isnt racist/has black friends etc, so it made me wonder why it made my hackles stand up a bit. I get the same feeling if someone says they arnt really attracted to big women/men. But then everyone has thier preferences i guess. I'm dont really identify as being "white" as i'm kinna sallow skinned because my dads family are roma (another persicuted race; see recent burning down of roma camps in newly fashist run italy) ..the point is, whenever i have dated people and i ask them what famous people they find attractive they say people like michelle rodreges etc and people who have the same skin tone/ eye colour as me... it doesnt make me feel threatened, infact it makes me happy that i'm thier "type".
> i find it strange though, because i dont have a skintone preference..i dont really understand. But then again preference is subjective..
> I think though you will find greater size acceptance dependent on where you live but i dont think that that is dependant on the amount of fat people that live there..
> For instance, the whole fat acceptance movement hasnt really reached scotland though i think at the moment we are the third fattest nation in the world! whoot!
> ...



*racism: 
1 : *_a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race _
*2 : *_racial prejudice or discrimination _​
It's hard to define what is preference and what is racism. Online I meet a lot of men who prefer black women of many different nationalities. Some are sincere while others I've found to be _very_ racist in their beliefs about black women. I suppose there are a lot of nuances to what every individual is going to find appealing. I also meet a lot of black men who will only date white or asian women. If a ____________ man is only attracted to ____________ women/men is it racist or preference? Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.


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## mergirl (May 19, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> *racism:
> 1 : *_a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race _
> *2 : *_racial prejudice or discrimination _​
> It's hard to define what is preference and what is racism. Online I meet a lot of men who prefer black women of many different nationalities. Some are sincere while others I've found to be _very_ racist in their beliefs about black women. I suppose there are a lot of nuances to what every individual is going to find appealing. I also meet a lot of black men who will only date white or asian women. If a ____________ man is only attracted to ____________ women/men is it racist or preference? Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.


Right!?, its kinna confusing. I think i would think it strange if someone ONLY dated black or ONLY dated white people. I would always be wondering, at which point does preference become discrimination, albeit sometimes positive. And what is it about that certain race that people prefer? its just skin colour. But then skin colour can also represent a differing culture. Which is funny, because all black people i know have broad scottish accents and maby the closest they get to thier ancestors is a holiday every few years to see thier grandparents or something. My grandfather on my dads side was roma but i can only say a few words of "the kant" (which is actually sad) and i really like my home comforts and LOATH caravaning!! but still my skin is sallow. its a funny thing, skin, when it can become a part of your identity even when you dont identify with what other people are identifying about you!! lol..i think i melted my brain with that sentence..
The worst racism i have been witness to was in the wake of 9/11 and was directed at my friends who is muslim and there was some old wanker guy saying "so what religion are these terrorist killers?" i went fucking mental and spouted something about christian crusades or something..and about fundimentalists not being real muslims...
Anyway..i think the issues of fat acceptance and race are also applicable to different religions too..
When you say some people have been very racist in thier beliefs about black woman do you mean that they have been out and out asshole racist? or that they have believed in racial steriotypes?..

xmer


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## LillyBBBW (May 19, 2008)

It was the stereotype they were after. They would mention how much they love black women and begin to list these characteristics and personality traits that turned them on. I would have been offended if it weren't so silly. They want me to be their big bootie ghetto whore so they can go home and kiss their blue eyed girlfriend on the forhead and tell her how special she is. It's a joke. Not everybody is like that but I've seen it often enough to cultivate a level of cynicism.

Don't get me wrong, big bootie ghetto whores need love too. I'm not beyond playing the part when the mood strikes in a relationship. I dunno, it's a subtle thing that has more to do with behavior and how he treats you than anything else, this goes for black men too. I've got enough cynicism to go around for everyone, no one gets left out.


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## mergirl (May 19, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> It was the stereotype they were after. They would mention how much they love black women and begin to list these characteristics and personality traits that turned them on. I would have been offended if it weren't so silly. They want me to be their big bootie ghetto whore so they can go home and kiss their blue eyed girlfriend on the forhead and tell her how special she is. It's a joke. Not everybody is like that but I've seen it often enough to cultivate a level of cynicism.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, big bootie ghetto whores need love too. I'm not beyond playing the part when the mood strikes in a relationship. I dunno, it's a subtle thing that has more to do with behavior and how he treats you than anything else, this goes for black men too. I've got enough cynicism to go around for everyone, no one gets left out.


haha..ok.."big bootie ghetto whores need love too" is going on a t-shirt! or it would be my quote if i knew how to do that!
also.."i've got enough cynicism to go around for everyone, no one gets left out" is a classic!! you should get into the bitter greeting card buisness! lol
i see what you mean though..i think that sort of behaviour comes from repression of what you like and i hear that it can happen a lot with big women, where guys might have a skinny chick back home and its almost like they are using someone to fulfill a fantasy, selfishly, which is out of order totally!
i also think though that there is a world of difference between racism (or indeed sizeism) and lack of education, and i think part of being tolerant is finding the patience to educate people. But then i think if you have had to deal with all sorts of shit by bigots on a sometimes daily basis it might be hard to find that patience!

hmm..i wish i was a big bootie ghetto whore!! lmao ..maby in my next life, hopefully.. 
lilly, you crack me up..cynisism is the best form of wit!

xxmer


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## LillyBBBW (May 19, 2008)

mergirl said:


> haha..ok.."big bootie ghetto whores need love too" is going on a t-shirt! or it would be my quote if i knew how to do that!
> also.."i've got enough cynicism to go around for everyone, no one gets left out" is a classic!! you should get into the bitter greeting card buisness! lol
> i see what you mean though..i think that sort of behaviour comes from repression of what you like and i hear that it can happen a lot with big women, where guys might have a skinny chick back home and its almost like they are using someone to fulfill a fantasy, selfishly, which is out of order totally!
> i also think though that there is a world of difference between racism (or indeed sizeism) and lack of education, and i think part of being tolerant is finding the patience to educate people. But then i think if you have had to deal with all sorts of shit by bigots on a sometimes daily basis it might be hard to find that patience!
> ...



I tend to avoid getting involved with someone with whom a lot of assembly is required, especially if he's past a certain age. If you should decide to sell that big bootie ghetto whore tshirt let me know.


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## Jane (May 19, 2008)

I just stole "no assembly required" for facebook.


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## superodalisque (May 19, 2008)

i don't get all broken up in general about what people think about race. the ignorance of other people is kind of worrying sometimes though. i try to explain things with patience and when i can't i just walk away from it. i have my days and situations where i haven't always responded as i should like everyone else i guesss. i like to be kind and patient with it. you get a lot further that way. people are more likely to see your side of things. friends i love the most have asked me the wildest questions at times. i'm glad they can. it means that they trust me and our friendship goes beyond race. i know they forgive the dumb things i have said. its the same as the stereotypes people have about what you are like if your fat or a woman. i'm usually patient and try and give people time to know me as a person--which aint easy.

as far as dating goes, my first bf was finnsh, but since then i've dated people of all stripes. in truth it was my color that first attracted him but we knew each other for quite some time before we got together. so by then i knew i was definitely more than just a chance to have a black girl to him. its true that a lot of guys, especially europeans etc.. who don't have them around are absolutely enthralled by african american women. they are enticed by the different and the exotic. so often i take what they say with a grain of salt until they have more exposure--basically the same way i'd treat an FA overridden with fantasies with little or no experience of ssbbws. 

every once in a while people in the community ask me if i date black men. i do indeed. its just that when i'm at events men who are different from me feel more emboldened to talk to me. so its rare to be in a situtation where people feel so comfortable approaching me. its true that some are only interested because its a chance to get an SSBBBW, but needless to say i don't waste my time like that. being a commodity doesn't excite me much. but most people are really respectful and i don't like to discourage respectful people. so even when they go home they will have the heart to talk to that woman they've been wanting to for ages. i've known racially different people who have waited for months to ask me out because they weren't sure how i would take it. and this is in atlanta where multi-racial dating is not that big of a deal. there are a lot of guys who don't have a skinny blue eyed girl waiting at home in the background. they just have an empty hole in their heart where a sweet SSBBBW would fill it perfectly.

there isn't much thats different between us anyway except for maybe the food and a few interesting traditions. we all bleed. we all hurt. we all laugh. we all have the capacity for good or ill. i still generalize and stereotype like everyone else because its a quick way to analyze. its like when you kinda sort the laundry until you have time to go back and fine tune it. 

i realized a long time ago that its best to let a lot of things go if you can. the few times i'm sort protective re: race is if i think someone is doing something illegal, like discrimmiation in the workplace etc... but i do that for women and the physically challenged as well. i try not to be too touchy because i don't like engaging in a culture of victimhood. 

as far as african americans are concerned, we are heros all over the world. no one else has changed their socio-economic political and cultural level as quickly as we have. think of it! we only gained the right to full citizenship in the late 60s and look at how far we've come. other countries with minority populations are astounded at the change. sometimes because we are too close to it we don't really see how far we've come so fast. it was only after i began traveling outside of the country a lot that i became aware of just how much of an impact we've had on the entire world with our story. maybe that was the point of the suffering of the past. they did not live in vain. and, i'm also proud to think that we've had a lot to do with the improvements in the images of bbws lately. 

i can't wait to see what beautiful things latinas, indians, eastern europeans, native americans etc... still have in store


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## superodalisque (May 19, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> I tend to avoid getting involved with someone with whom a lot of assembly is required, especially if he's past a certain age. If you should decide to sell that big bootie ghetto whore tshirt let me know.



i feel ya! yes and i'm personally of an age where i try to be patient but i keep thinking...do i really have time to learn how to read chinese instructions? :bow:


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## exile in thighville (May 19, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> It was the stereotype they were after. They would mention how much they love black women and begin to list these characteristics and personality traits that turned them on. I would have been offended if it weren't so silly. They want me to be their big bootie ghetto whore so they can go home and kiss their blue eyed girlfriend on the forhead and tell her how special she is. It's a joke. Not everybody is like that but I've seen it often enough to cultivate a level of cynicism.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, big bootie ghetto whores need love too. I'm not beyond playing the part when the mood strikes in a relationship. I dunno, it's a subtle thing that has more to do with behavior and how he treats you than anything else, this goes for black men too. I've got enough cynicism to go around for everyone, no one gets left out.



the only thing that's shameful is when they can't separate the fantasy from the reality. it's one thing to crave a type for play in the bedroom, it's just shortsighted to believe the caricature that turns you on is manifest in a person or people just because your dick hopes so.


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## ESPN Cutie (May 19, 2008)

mergirl said:


> Right!?, its kinna confusing. I think i would think it strange if someone ONLY dated black or ONLY dated white people.
> 
> xmer



*Why is that strange? I'm Black and I have only dated Black and Latino men. I would date a White man, and have been attracted to them, but they never ask me out and it seems they are never where I hang out. It's like I never have a chance to meet them. I don't know why?*


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## olwen (May 19, 2008)

ESPN Cutie, I think she means maybe that she finds it strange when people say they'll only date within their own race because they find it distasteful to date outside of their own race for whatever reasons (cultural, aesthetic, prejudice, etc). So in other words, if you're dating in your own race cause you just feel comfortable and there are cultural aspects that you feel you don't want to have to give up or explain or that you NEED to share then that's one thing, but to completely dismiss the notion out of hand for ridiculous reasons or because of downright ignorance is another.

Mergirl, is that about right? Do I ken?


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## olwen (May 19, 2008)

I've been with and dated all types of guys. I can only recal twice experiencing a wtf moment from a white guy who said something like "I dig exotic women, my ex was latina." and an ecuadorian guy who said he liked dirty talk and asked if he could call me a "dirty N word whore." 

I don't think either of those statements had to do with my size, just some tendency to think of me and all blacks/"black culture" by extention as a world they perhaps admire and want to penetrate (pun intended) but just don't/can't understand for whatever silly reasons. But I can say that lack of understanding and the desire to place me in some category whose varied definitions they aren't aware of was, quite a turn off. If they want a big bootie ghetto whore (I love that phrase too btw) they'll have to look elsewhere.


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## olwen (May 20, 2008)

Raqui said:


> RACISM - IN THE PLUS SIZED COMMUNITY
> 
> We go through Racism in daily life sometimes. But how does this affect a community such as ours. Fat crosses all lines and we are hated in general. Are the statments true? Are certain acts racist or are they just preference? Is being fat easier for certain races? How can we leave race behind on the path to size acceptance? LOOKING FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS TOUCHY SUBJECT!!!!
> 
> ...



Can we leave race behind on the path to size acceptance? I don't see this happening any time soon, especially when arguments/debates among policy makers tend towards the idea that poor people (read minorities) are the ones who tend to be the fattest, _and _when they wonder how to teach minorities about nutrition in a way that speaks to their culture. Every health policy that gets put into place is another opportunity to politicize and moralize fat and minorities by extension. Somehow we become the terrorists in the war against fat. We become the fundamentalist who need to be taken down. The next question I'd ask is Do their policies teach minorities that their culture is killing them? Do their policies inspire self-hatred or frustration and confusion among hispanics when they say, "red beans and rice and torillas are deadly, from now on you should eat soy." Do they adjust their food policies to make soy and organic food affordable or do they spend our tax dollars on nutrition programs that may or may not be effective? Do they cut PE programs from schools in the poorer neighborhoods? Do they make zoning laws that bring in big money real estate that will displace the needed community center or playground and still tell poor kids you need to exercise go out and play. Go out and play where? I'm rambling now, but you get the gist of what I'm trying to say. 

To leave race behind in this issue the politicians and policy makers should make reasonable and rational social and health policies that actually help people instead of confusing or belittling them.


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## saucywench (May 20, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> I've got enough cynicism to go around for everyone, no one gets left out.


Goodness and mercy, how I love that line! I just sat here and smiled and chuckled and smiled some more.

Got room for me on your bandwagon there, Lilly?


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## mergirl (May 20, 2008)

ESPN Cutie said:


> *Why is that strange? I'm Black and I have only dated Black and Latino men. I would date a White man, and have been attracted to them, but they never ask me out and it seems they are never where I hang out. It's like I never have a chance to meet them. I don't know why?*


no. i ment.. i find it strange if people would only ever date one specific colour of people as a concious decision.. like "i would never date white guys".. "i would never date black guys".. i'm saying i find that strange because how would you know that.. 
i dont mean people, through some reason or another that just havnt met any black/white people that they have been attracted to yet!

xmer


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## mergirl (May 20, 2008)

olwen said:


> ESPN Cutie, I think she means maybe that she finds it strange when people say they'll only date within their own race because they find it distasteful to date outside of their own race for whatever reasons (cultural, aesthetic, prejudice, etc). So in other words, if you're dating in your own race cause you just feel comfortable and there are cultural aspects that you feel you don't want to have to give up or explain or that you NEED to share then that's one thing, but to completely dismiss the notion out of hand for ridiculous reasons or because of downright ignorance is another.
> 
> Mergirl, is that about right? Do I ken?


oh lmao olwen.. i just read your post cause i tend to read through and answer any along the way! you DO ken! haha, how scottish of ye lassy.. Though "ken" is more of an "ayrshire" thing to say.. i'm more Glasgow based, so we say "aye hen" and things like that! lmao.. though thats exactly what i ment..thank you for seeing through the rambles of me!!!

xxmer


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## gangstadawg (May 20, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> *racism:
> 1 : *_a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race _
> *2 : *_racial prejudice or discrimination _​
> It's hard to define what is preference and what is racism. Online I meet a lot of men who prefer black women of many different nationalities. Some are sincere while others I've found to be _very_ racist in their beliefs about black women. I suppose there are a lot of nuances to what every individual is going to find appealing. I also meet a lot of black men who will only date white or asian women. If a ____________ man is only attracted to ____________ women/men is it racist or preference? Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.


its not really hard. it depends on the person and how his/her preferance is said and used to make the difference its racist or not. this sounds like fullfiggas kind of thread with the race and preferance thing added. 
any ways if for example a man (in this example african american but can be used with any race) loves only white women because he feels black women are trash or some other sterotype to say why he hates them, then states a bunch of BS reasons why his preferance is better than he really doesnt love the white women he says he prefers because he is really using them has a possible vehicle to show his hatred towards black women and since in this example he is black its almost self-hatred and really does a disservice to both types of women.

basically if your dating preferance for one race is to show negativity or hatred towards another race especially on bullshit sterotypes than its not a preferance its racism and if your the same race then its a possibility of self hatred.


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## mergirl (May 20, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> I tend to avoid getting involved with someone with whom a lot of assembly is required, especially if he's past a certain age. If you should decide to sell that big bootie ghetto whore tshirt let me know.


The t-shirt is in the production line of my mind as we speak! 
I think before we actually really know someone we can have all sorts of preconcieved ideas of what they will be like.. i KNOW that people think i will be much more interesting than i am, because i play music, am involved in art pieces and write and do all sorts of creative things.. then people actually date me and find i like nothing more than to hang about in my pj's watching shit tv!! lmao
Were i a big bootie ghetto whore i KNOW i wouldnt have this problem of dissapointing people!! lmao
oh! you know something that bugs me.. my friend acts all ghetto just because he is black.. he is really upper class and lives in a huge mansion type house and talks like he is an american rapper! it does my head in! I love him and he plays drums 4 me when i need some drumming on my tracks.. but we were practicing a while back and he said....(where is the shocked guy) "the N word", i got pissed off and asked him if he could not say it because i thought it sounded pathetic. He said "i'm alowed to say it cause i'm black and besided gangstah rappers say it". I basically told him that its one of those words that just cant be reclaimed because its steeped in too much bigotted history. I also told him that gangter rappers shoot each other and smoke crack too does that make it ok? If a gangstah rapper jumped off a bridge would you too?? lmao.. 
Words can be powerful tools and although i dont think we should be scared of them i think we need to be mindful of them. I know that there are certain contexts for different words and what can be ment affectionatly in some contexts can be deeply offensive and hurtful in others. "Queer" and "fat" have been reclaimed to some extent but mainly in the queer and fat circles.. If some stranger or someone i didnt like came up to me and called me a queer fat bitch i would go fucking nuts.. (well maby i would just laugh at how pathetic they were/depending on the time of the month).. 
hmm i have to many points to make so am rambling..
Anyway.. i personally think "the N word" (the reason i am saying N word isnt because i'm frightened of the word itself but i feel it shouldnt be given power..but then again maby its like "voldermort" and the more you say it the less power it has.. i dunno..anyway i digress).. shouldnt be used, in any context or by anyone:
because it just causes fraction within communities and missunderstandings. You will get wee white lassies who like rap saying it and it will be missunderstood. Plus i dont think there are words that only some sections of society can say, cause it just creates a ghetto within a ghetto and causes even more of a divide.
To be honest i was pretty shocked cause i didnt realise the extent of racism in scotland.. it was about 8 years ago with my drummer pal and his two brothers, they were driving a nice car, cause as i said they are posh.. lol.. anyway we got stopped by the police (for doing NOTHING).. i said to the police guy "shit, i knew i shouldnt have got in a car with 3 black guys" ..we all found it funny..and i was threatened with arrest! (for being honest!!). 
they eventually let us go.. and i was RAGING but everyone else in the car seemed to just see it as a normal thing...
I hope its getting better and that they are training police not to be fucking arseholes.. but i doubt it!
anyway.. i have made to many points so i think they will have been disolved a bit.. i have more to say but i have bored myself...

xxmer


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## mergirl (May 20, 2008)

gangstadawg said:


> its not really hard. it depends on the person and how his/her preferance is said and used to make the difference its racist or not. this sounds like fullfiggas kind of thread with the race and preferance thing added.
> any ways if for example a man (in this example african american but can be used with any race) loves only white women because he feels black women are trash or some other sterotype to say why he hates them, then states a bunch of BS reasons why his preferance is better than he really doesnt love the white women he says he prefers because he is really using them has a possible vehicle to show his hatred towards black women and since in this example he is black its almost self-hatred and really does a disservice to both types of women.
> 
> basically if your dating preferance for one race is to show negativity or hatred towards another race especially on bullshit sterotypes than its not a preferance its racism and if your the same race then its a possibility of self hatred.


good point! I know a lot of bbw's who say they arnt attracted to fat guys/women though.. i dont know if this is fat hatred specifically (although in some cases it might be a deeply rooted self hatred) it might just be a specific body type preference..
i am generally not usually attracted to skinny people, but thats not to say i hate them as people! i have a lot of skinny friends that i love but i'm just not attracted to them. I don't think they are lesser people because of thier body type its just that i dont usually fancy them. i wonder how related size and colour preference is related?
Its strange that i can understand size preference but not skin colour preference.. but then maby thats just cause i do prefer big women but cant see what the difference would be if i dated a big black woman or a big white woman..well..just about as much difference if i were to date someone with blue or brown eyes really... 
but then i have a bi-fatual friend who equally loves big and thin women and cant see the difference.. though she would date anyone so long as they gave her a good spanking!! lmao

xxmer


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## LillyBBBW (May 20, 2008)

mergirl said:


> The t-shirt is in the production line of my mind as we speak!
> I think before we actually really know someone we can have all sorts of preconcieved ideas of what they will be like.. i KNOW that people think i will be much more interesting than i am, because i play music, am involved in art pieces and write and do all sorts of creative things.. then people actually date me and find i like nothing more than to hang about in my pj's watching shit tv!! lmao
> *Were i a big bootie ghetto whore i KNOW i wouldnt have this problem of dissapointing people!! lm*ao
> oh! you know something that bugs me.. my friend acts all ghetto just because he is black.. he is really upper class and lives in a huge mansion type house and talks like he is an american rapper! it does my head in! I love him and he plays drums 4 me when i need some drumming on my tracks.. but we were practicing a while back and he said....(where is the shocked guy) "the N word", i got pissed off and asked him if he could not say it because i thought it sounded pathetic. He said "i'm alowed to say it cause i'm black and besided gangstah rappers say it". I basically told him that its one of those words that just cant be reclaimed because its steeped in too much bigotted history. I also told him that gangter rappers shoot each other and smoke crack too does that make it ok? If a gangstah rapper jumped off a bridge would you too?? lmao..
> ...



I made the mistake of reading this whilst rasing a cup of hot tea to my lips.  I litterally laughed out loud.

Speaking of the power that words can hold, there is a new word that raises hackles among the black community now. The word is 'articulate.' If a black person has a firm grasp on basic language skills it will sometimes lead someone to compliment us on how articulate we are. The first time someone said that to me I found it odd. Why would a general conversation about the weather make someone say that? I don't have enough brain energy to turn stuff over like that so I let it go. It wasn't till a conversation with another group of black women that I figured out why it bugged me. I was telling a story of these people who refused to sit at the same table with a me and a friend of mine at a wedding. Later that evening I sang an 'Ave Maria' at the bride's request and suddenly they all wanted to be my best friend. They were shaking my hand, introducing themselves and asking questions about the symphony. It was pretty vile. As I was recounting the story one of the ladies said, "Oh, did they compliment you how 'articulate' you are?" and the whole group cracked up laughing. I nearly bust a gullet too. Being a big bootie ghetto whore has it's fun spots but not in all situations. If I couldn't sing and had a really bad weave I'd get treated like dirt much more often though I'm the same person inside. I think in general people measure intelligence using the wrong tools which transcends race altogether for the most part. Everybody falls victim to that, though that's a tale for another thread.


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## mergirl (May 20, 2008)

Very articulate post lilly!! lmao!!... but seriously..whoat the fuck is that all about? ive never heard about that.. seriously? its a thing???
that is vile. sort of reminds me of them "letting" ray charles play in "white only" venues...not THAT long ago..
Or nina simone only being able to sing so long as she had a white pianist..when she wanted to play and sing.. vile vile vile.. 
what did they mean? like "your ok as long as your entertaining me" ..or even worse " wow, you can speak just as good as me...just wait till i tell em down at the klan meeting" (spiteful lol)
its like if you are not a white hetrosexual male you have to keep proving yourself before you are "accepted".
I cant believe the "articulate" thing!! ...
"the A word" shudder!!
This whole debate reminds me of the song "four women" by nina simone (when she actually got to play her own piano)..
cause its all about racial steriotypes and misrepresentation.. oh..here are the lyrics..

Four women- Nina simone 

My skin is black
My arms are long
My hair is wooly
My back is strong
Strong enough to take the pain
Its been inflicted again and again
What do they call me
My name is aunt sarah
My name is aunt sarah

My skin is yellow
My hair is long
Between two worlds
I do belong
My father was rich and white
He forced my mother late one night
What do they call me
My name is siffronia
My name is siffronia

My skin is tan
My hairs alright, its fine
My hips invite you
And my lips are like wine
Whose little girl am i? 
Well yours if you have some money to buy
What do they call me
My name is sweet thing
My name is sweet thing

My skin is brown
And my manner is tough
Ill kill the first mother I see
Cos my life has been too rough
Im awfully bitter these days
Because my parents were slaves
What do they call me
My
Name
Is
Peaches


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## LillyBBBW (May 20, 2008)

mergirl said:


> Very articulate post lilly!! lmao!!... but seriously..whoat the fuck is that all about? ive never heard about that.. seriously? its a thing???
> that is vile. sort of reminds me of them "letting" ray charles play in "white only" venues...not THAT long ago..
> Or nina simone only being able to sing so long as she had a white pianist..when she wanted to play and sing.. vile vile vile..
> what did they mean? like "your ok as long as your entertaining me" ..or even worse " wow, you can speak just as good as me...just wait till i tell em down at the klan meeting" (spiteful lol)
> ...



LOL Oh yeah, it's a buzzword alright.


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## mergirl (May 20, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> LOL Oh yeah, it's a buzzword alright.


holy fuck!! its a REAL thing!!
That was a brilliant article.
Ive never heard any of my black friends being called "articulate" before.. actually ive never heard any of my white friends being called "articulate" either cause all my friends are all a bunch of idiots!! lmao
but in all seriousness..Thats a really sneeky thing to say.. i particularly loved (sarcastically) the comment made about Barack Obama -that he was "articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy”.. !!??? in relation to who? other polititians? No..other black people!!????
i seriously think the "articulate" thing is more of an american phenomenon.. ive seriously NEVER heard that over here.. but then just cause you dont hear it doesnt mean it isnt being said..
i feel sad and fucking disgusted!
At least if people are out and out racist you can call them on it.. but its like a sneeky (and this is an oxymoron) complementing insult..
you can kinna compare it to some of the comments fat chicks get too...like "you have a pretty face" and one i hate is "she was big but hot" .. why cant you just say.. "she was big and hot" or "she was hot"..
hmmm.. i was going to say that white presidential campainers have never been called "articulate" but then seriously?? George bush?.. i'm surprised every time he strings a sentance together! lmao
seriously..i'm raging! If you see a wee scottish lassy on the news rocking back and forth on top of mount rushmore barbling "articulate...articulate..NO way..seriously.. articulate" then it shall be me!

xxmer

p.s can you climb mount rushmore and if so which presidents nose was the biggests?


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## superodalisque (May 20, 2008)

mergirl said:


> Very articulate post lilly!! lmao!!... but seriously..whoat the fuck is that all about? ive never heard about that.. seriously? its a thing???
> that is vile. sort of reminds me of them "letting" ray charles play in "white only" venues...not THAT long ago..
> Or nina simone only being able to sing so long as she had a white pianist..when she wanted to play and sing.. vile vile vile..
> what did they mean? like "your ok as long as your entertaining me" ..or even worse " wow, you can speak just as good as me...just wait till i tell em down at the klan meeting" (spiteful lol)
> ...




GOOD LORD I'VE FOUND MY SOULMATE!!!!!! thats my fav song ever!!!!!
love where she holds the finale --my name issssssssss PEACHES!!!!
amazing


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## mergirl (May 20, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> GOOD LORD I'VE FOUND MY SOULMATE!!!!!! thats my fav song ever!!!!!
> love where she holds the finale --my name issssssssss PEACHES!!!!
> amazing


I KNOW!! Thats one of my favorite songs ever too! Nina simone is my hero songstress! 
mississippi goddam is another of my favorites..because its an AWSOME song but also because i was at my friends house YEARS ago, and it was the early hours after too much wine and we were listening to Nina. It was pure classic, to see my friend who is a camp skinny white boy, using an empty wine bottle as a microphone and crying, tears streaming down his face with a clenched fist.. singing "you dont have to live next to me, just give me my equality" EVEN after the song had finished!! lmao 
So although the song is powerful, gut wrenching and about horrible stuff i cant help smiling a bit whenever i hear it, thinking of my friend playing at being nina!

xxmer


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## olwen (May 20, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> I made the mistake of reading this whilst rasing a cup of hot tea to my lips.  I litterally laughed out loud.
> 
> Speaking of the power that words can hold, there is a new word that raises hackles among the black community now. The word is 'articulate.' If a black person has a firm grasp on basic language skills it will sometimes lead someone to compliment us on how articulate we are. The first time someone said that to me I found it odd. Why would a general conversation about the weather make someone say that? I don't have enough brain energy to turn stuff over like that so I let it go. It wasn't till a conversation with another group of black women that I figured out why it bugged me. I was telling a story of these people who refused to sit at the same table with a me and a friend of mine at a wedding. Later that evening I sang an 'Ave Maria' at the bride's request and suddenly they all wanted to be my best friend. They were shaking my hand, introducing themselves and asking questions about the symphony. It was pretty vile. As I was recounting the story one of the ladies said, "Oh, did they compliment you how 'articulate' you are?" and the whole group cracked up laughing. I nearly bust a gullet too. Being a big bootie ghetto whore has it's fun spots but not in all situations. If I couldn't sing and had a really bad weave I'd get treated like dirt much more often though I'm the same person inside. I think in general people measure intelligence using the wrong tools which transcends race altogether for the most part. Everybody falls victim to that, though that's a tale for another thread.



Ah I can relate. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard that in my life from blacks and whites alike, even from my own cousins. I got called "oreo" and "uncle tom" by them or was accused of "actin' white" whenever I spoke, needless to say, we aren't close. I never thought much about it back then except to think they were all being assholes for no reason. Now I think I understand those reasons, but I'm still not going to try to cozy up to them either....


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## mergirl (May 20, 2008)

olwen said:


> Ah I can relate. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard that in my life from blacks and whites alike, even from my own cousins. I got called "oreo" and "uncle tom" by them or was accused of "actin' white" whenever I spoke, needless to say, we aren't close. I never thought much about it back then except to think they were all being assholes for no reason. Now I think I understand those reasons, but I'm still not going to try to cozy up to them either....


i'm not american so i have no idea what it means to be called "uncle tom"?? Though there is a song in the musical "hair" where i think its mentioned along with a lot of other derogatory terms for black people (not a racist musical btw..its in context) so i guess its not good..
As for oreo's.. they just came out over here.. so i guess that means;
you are sweet, yummy, round and with a fondant filling!! lol

xmer


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## Santaclear (May 20, 2008)

I'm really a fan of the new Articulate movement taking rise in America today, whether it be among wide booty ghetto hoes or common trailer trash like myself. Either way we all should sit up and be proud, not slouch, for we're a credit to our respective races and social classes. Obama is indeed well behaved, not thuggish at all. :bow:


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## olwen (May 20, 2008)

mergirl said:


> i'm not american so i have no idea what it means to be called "uncle tom"?? Though there is a song in the musical "hair" where i think its mentioned along with a lot of other derogatory terms for black people (not a racist musical btw..its in context) so i guess its not good..
> As for oreo's.. they just came out over here.. so i guess that means;
> you are sweet, yummy, round and with a fondant filling!! lol
> 
> xmer



Ha. That's funny, if only it were that. Um, the word "uncle tom" refers to the title character in a book called _Uncle Tom's Cabin_ by Harriet Beecher Stowe, which I've never actually read. I'm guessing the character was overly willing to please the white master to gain favors for himself and maybe would sell out other blacks in order to save his own skin...i don't know exactly, what's in the book, but that's the meaning when it's used. An "oreo" is a black person who supposedly "acts white," so tho they look black on the outside they are really white on the inside - like an oreo cookie. Both phrases are offensive.


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## mergirl (May 20, 2008)

olwen said:


> Ha. That's funny, if only it were that. Um, the word "uncle tom" refers to the title character in a book called _Uncle Tom's Cabin_ by Harriet Beecher Stowe, which I've never actually read. I'm guessing the character was overly willing to please the white master to gain favors for himself and maybe would sell out other blacks in order to save his own skin...i don't know exactly, what's in the book, but that's the meaning when it's used. An "oreo" is a black person who supposedly "acts white," so tho they look black on the outside they are really white on the inside - like an oreo cookie. Both phrases are offensive.


ahhhh i see..i see.. but still i feel blind! lmao.. its so silly really..
ive never been compared to a biscuit though so i dont know the implications there! 
i have actually heard of "uncle toms cabin" but have never read it..its pretty obscure name calling though..a biscuit and an unread book.. people are strange..
and oh! i see you like luscious jackson..i have thier album from ages ago.. i think its called something like "natural ingredients".. 
i think, were i to be confectionary i would be a victoria sponge birthday cake.. utterly dissapointing for the occassion, flakey and soft but with a lot of jam in me! lmao

xxmer


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## olwen (May 20, 2008)

mergirl said:


> ahhhh i see..i see.. but still i feel blind! lmao.. its so silly really..
> ive never been compared to a biscuit though so i dont know the implications there!
> i have actually heard of "uncle toms cabin" but have never read it..its pretty obscure name calling though..a biscuit and an unread book.. people are strange..
> and oh! i see you like luscious jackson..i have thier album from ages ago.. i think its called something like "natural ingredients"..
> ...


The levels of silly involved are mindboggling....I find it silly that I find it silly that you find it silly! But I suppose this is a remnant of slavery that you just have to live in america or be black to really understand. What's sillier still is that these phrases were probably made up by blacks to piss on other blacks to make themselves feel better about their blackness....this is the kinda shit I was talking about in the devil made me post this image thread...the affects of slavery are something that blacks are gonna be dealing with for generations to come....it runs deep.


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## LillyBBBW (May 20, 2008)

olwen said:


> Ah I can relate. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard that in my life from blacks and whites alike, even from my own cousins. I got called "oreo" and "uncle tom" by them or was accused of "actin' white" whenever I spoke, needless to say, we aren't close. I never thought much about it back then except to think they were all being assholes for no reason. Now I think I understand those reasons, but I'm still not going to try to cozy up to them either....





olwen said:


> The levels of silly involved are mindboggling....I find it silly that I find it silly that you find it silly! But I suppose this is a remnant of slavery that you just have to live in america or be black to really understand. What's sillier still is that these phrases were probably made up by blacks to piss on other blacks to make themselves feel better about their blackness....this is the kinda shit I was talking about in the devil made me post this image thread...the affects of slavery are something that blacks are gonna be dealing with for generations to come....it runs deep.



DING DING DING DING DING!!! Yeah, I got called that too. I was a bully growing up so I didn't get is too bad but they really gave my sister a go at her school. She had to switch schools because of severe bullying by fellow black students. It's a sick sad world. I wanted to go up there and have a friendly chat with the girls but my mother forbade it. It really translates to me as a fight to retain one's own culture, one's own identity rather than to conform to a world they will never feel fully accepted into no matter what they do. I still wanted to beat them up though.


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## pagan22 (May 20, 2008)

I know many people will jump on this and pound me down for it, but I've never found any non-white men attractive. As far as fat acceptance, I realize it's a cultural thing for latinos and blacks to be more accepting of larger women than whites. At this forum, I think it's imperative to get along for the sake of this.


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## PolarKat (May 20, 2008)

Green Women.. Never date 'em.. once they got you.. next thing you know you're trying to kill your ships captain.. pure evil I tell ya..


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## mergirl (May 21, 2008)

olwen said:


> The levels of silly involved are mindboggling....I find it silly that I find it silly that you find it silly! But I suppose this is a remnant of slavery that you just have to live in america or be black to really understand. What's sillier still is that these phrases were probably made up by blacks to piss on other blacks to make themselves feel better about their blackness....this is the kinda shit I was talking about in the devil made me post this image thread...the affects of slavery are something that blacks are gonna be dealing with for generations to come....it runs deep.


The thing i found silly was the fact that someone would make a disparaging comment based on a biscuit! (cookie)!! 
we all have our own fights, being from roma decent (very recent) i have had my fair share of stupidity flung at me about my culture. ie "where is your lucky heather, baby stealer, stinking gypo.. etc etc.. sometimes that has even come from my own friends, though it doesnt happen so much anymore.
you say you would have to be black and American to understand, well after some of the things i have heard i think being black and living in america it sounds like a fucking nightmare!! 
It seems to me that although america is ment to be the superpower that the rest of the world looks to for inspiration it seems to be one of the worst places for insiduous, sneeky, disgusting racism! I dont know why that is.. maby as you say, the country is steeped in the reminants of slavery.. this is why i think both the "N word" and now the "A word" should die a death.. The former specifically cannot be reclaimed because its too steeped in conotations of slavery..
i think what America needs is a revolution.. its due one!

xmer


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## mergirl (May 21, 2008)

CG_8 said:


> I know many people will jump on this and pound me down for it, but I've never found any non-white men attractive. As far as fat acceptance, I realize it's a cultural thing for latinos and blacks to be more accepting of larger women than whites. At this forum, I think it's imperative to get along for the sake of this.


hmm thats kinna interesting cause i prefer women on the whole and dont have any colour preference at all but then when i think about the guys i think are hot in films n stuff they are always usually black!? i hadnt really thought about that until you said it..but my top 3 film guys are denzel washington, jamie fox and samual L jackson! 
haha.. i never actually thought about that.. 
Denzel washington in particular would make me straight!
i feel this is a bit of a tangant from the initial post though...hmm i'm off to drool and watch "the hurricane" for the squillionth time!
my realisations about myself have totally shat all over some of my previous points.. gah! i hate when i prove myself wrong through thought!!!

xmer


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## diggers1917 (May 21, 2008)

mergirl said:


> Its strange that i can understand size preference but not skin colour preference



But aren't they (for some people, anyway) the same thing? Not accusing anyone on this board for this but I do resent the implication that because the majority of the girls I've 'liked' have been white I must hate black people or think that other ethnicities are inferior to my own. There is so much more to the world than dividing it simply into a 'fuck list' and a 'hate list'. It's about as irritating as the implication that because I like fat girls I must have been abused as a child (or other such nonsense you hear banded about). I like what I 'like' because...I like it - I'd have thought people on a board like Dimensions understood that!


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## mergirl (May 21, 2008)

diggers1917 said:


> But aren't they (for some people, anyway) the same thing? Not accusing anyone on this board for this but I do resent the implication that because the majority of the girls I've 'liked' have been white I must hate black people or think that other ethnicities are inferior to my own. There is so much more to the world than dividing it simply into a 'fuck list' and a 'hate list'. It's about as irritating as the implication that because I like fat girls I must have been abused as a child (or other such nonsense you hear banded about). I like what I 'like' because...I like it - I'd have thought people on a board like Dimensions understood that!


i said "i" can understand size preference but not skin colour preference.. you cant have read the rest of the threds. This is a personal thing for me because i prefer big women but have no skin colour preference..(i dont know how many times i've actually said that now). i'm not getting at anyone for thier preferences.. As i said before..I prefer big women.. that doesnt mean i hate skinny women! but now i'm just repeating myself...

xmer


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## diggers1917 (May 21, 2008)

mergirl said:


> you cant have read the rest of the threds.



True. Got so far, then couldn't help myself. My own fault, really.:doh:


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## mergirl (May 21, 2008)

diggers1917 said:


> True. Got so far, then couldn't help myself. My own fault, really.:doh:


tut tut! Over my knee for a spanking young chap!!
lmao .. GET READING!!!! 

xxmer


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## diggers1917 (May 21, 2008)

mergirl said:


> tut tut! Over my knee for a spanking young chap!!
> lmao .. GET READING!!!!
> 
> xxmer



Yes, ma'am *_Salutes_*


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## sirGordy (May 21, 2008)

One thing I can say about racism, its an ugly and destructive cancer in the body we call society. This, along with the absurdity of the adipose discrimination that I have also encountered during my life, really makes for a world in serious need of some compassion transfusions.

That being said, the one thing I will share in this thread is that I too had my moment of zen, if you will, in a past relationship, a few years back. I was dating a lady, whom at that time, I was very much in love. We were getting along pretty well, and even met some members of her family, with which I was generally accepted. However, there were other members of her family that literally loathed the ground I walked on, simply because I was African-American. It was a very hurtful and sad, but we dealt with it, as best we could. Anyway, she found another, and I was again single, so the end of that story. 

Another thing that I have seen that even those members of my own ethnic group do not find me a person worth dating. At times, I feel marginalized by some of them, being labeled by some standard. This rather insipid behaviour is not only disheartening to the person being discriminated against, its downright puerile, and unworthy of a rational thinking human being. 

The point is that racism and other forms of discrimination are very real, divisive and anathema to a civilized society. I do not care what racial, religious, cultural or whatever your identification may be. I was taught to respect all people, and to take them at face value. I have always been a BHM, and I have had my time with the stupidity of the discrimination faced, just for being more economy sized than the so-called norm. To me, whatever your size or ethnicity, you are a human being, and as such, you deserve a level of respect and dignity that some in our society are reluctant to or are unwilling to accept. But we are all of one race, the human race, and these days, sometimes I ask myself if this race will ever be finished and if we will ever get to the prize..


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## LillyBBBW (May 21, 2008)

sirGordy said:


> One thing I can say about racism, its an ugly and destructive cancer in the body we call society. This, along with the absurdity of the adipose discrimination that I have also encountered during my life, really makes for a world in serious need of some compassion transfusions.
> 
> That being said, the one thing I will share in this thread is that I too had my moment of zen, if you will, in a past relationship, a few years back. I was dating a lady, whom at that time, I was very much in love. We were getting along pretty well, and even met some members of her family, with which I was generally accepted. However, there were other members of her family that literally loathed the ground I walked on, simply because I was African-American. It was a very hurtful and sad, but we dealt with it, as best we could. Anyway, she found another, and I was again single, so the end of that story.
> 
> ...



I think we have to be very careful not to equate a lack of attraction to racism or bigotry. Just because someone does not find me physically attractive or they have a preference for a thin woman or white woman doesn't mean they're a racist or a bigot. People can't do anything about their own inner drives that makes them prefer one thing over another. Personally I wouldn't want to be with someone who wasn't attracted to me but was willing to overlook it and date me anyway because I'm a nice person and he's a progressive thinker who can look beyond the fact that I'm the fattest woman he's ever seen up close.


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## olwen (May 21, 2008)

I agree with Lilly. In the end, you like what you like. Period. And there's no reason to have to justify what you like to anyone else. This is what we all should probably accept about people. Just because someone isn't attracted to my race or my fat doesn't mean they don't like who I am as a person and that doesn't automatically make them a racist or a fattist, and there's no reason why I should be bitter or angry about it. There's someone for everyone and if person x isn't on board than person W, Y, and Z will be. I'm less concerned with a people's sexual preferences than I am with how they treat me in everyday life. Do they discriminate against me at work? Do they treat me like shit in front of other people because of my size or race? That's the stuff that really matters. Besides which, one's sexual preferences may change over time. What I like and need today may not apply 10 years from now.


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## Tad (May 21, 2008)

Just some kind of random, rambling, thoughts inspired by this thread. I'm living in a pretty different reality than are a lot of the people posting, so I'm not trying to comment on their experiences. Rather just talking about something I've seen, living in a few different places.

I think a lot of people, everywhere, are what I would call "culture-ist" (for lack of a real world). That is, we are raised within a culture that has certain ways of doing things, certain unspoken standards, and so on, and anyone who doesn't meet those standards tends to strike us at first as rude, ignorant, poorly educated, or simply dim. When we get exposed to people from other cultures, some people accept that there are more than one way of doing things, and try to accept people on their own terms, while others never do the validity of other cultures. (think of most north americans or wester europeans confronted with someone who insists on trying to bargain down set prices, for example).

Racism is a different thing, but I think often the two are conflated. People of a certain appearance are assumed to have certain cultural characteristics, and certain supposedly inferior cultural characteristics are used to belittle people of a race associated with that culture. 

Now, in the US sometimes 'racism' is use to primarily mean 'racial discrimination against afro-americans' and in that case there is probably less conflation of race and culture, but you still see it some, in cases like assuming every black woman is a (what was that phrase you were using again? Ghetto-booty-whore? Whatever it was). 

The thing about cultural discrimination is that, if there is no visible markers, you have the possibility of learning to copy another culture, so that don't trigger other's prejudice's. When you throw in race they may also assume those cultural traits without waiting to see them.


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## Jon Blaze (May 21, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> *racism:
> 1 : *_a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race _
> *2 : *_racial prejudice or discrimination _​
> It's hard to define what is preference and what is racism. Online I meet a lot of men who prefer black women of many different nationalities. Some are sincere while others I've found to be _very_ racist in their beliefs about black women. I suppose there are a lot of nuances to what every individual is going to find appealing. I also meet a lot of black men who will only date white or asian women. If a ____________ man is only attracted to ____________ women/men is it racist or preference? Sometimes it is and sometimes it isn't.



I basically agree with this addition, and in general for any type of sexual preference. It's not so much whether or not your preferences are strict, but why they are. Like the reasons I date women of all sizes is because I think they're attractive, not because ONE side is in controlllllllll, and the other isn'ttttt... Or whatever. 

I used to believe it was like that. when I was 14. lol


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## pagan22 (May 21, 2008)

mergirl said:


> hmm thats kinna interesting cause i prefer women on the whole and dont have any colour preference at all but then when i think about the guys i think are hot in films n stuff they are always usually black!? i hadnt really thought about that until you said it..but my top 3 film guys are denzel washington, jamie fox and samual L jackson!



I think Denzel is a good looking black man. I just don't drool over him as much as I do Viggo Mortensen, Sean Connery, James Mason, Gabriel Byrne, and Pierce Brosnan. Those guys are :smitten:


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## olwen (May 21, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> DING DING DING DING DING!!! Yeah, I got called that too. I was a bully growing up so I didn't get is too bad but they really gave my sister a go at her school. She had to switch schools because of severe bullying by fellow black students. It's a sick sad world. I wanted to go up there and have a friendly chat with the girls but my mother forbade it. *It really translates to me as a fight to retain one's own culture, one's own identity rather than to conform to a world they will never feel fully accepted into no matter what they do. * I still wanted to beat them up though.




I had to really think about this well before responding. It's like here's one of the problems about black culture whatever it is. It seems like the issues we face are more and more issues of class rather than race, which necessitates terms like buppie or bap or when people think Sean Comes or Jay Z or Russell Simmons are sellouts cause they'd rather wear a suit than super baggie jeans, speak proper english, and care about having legitimate business. 

Yeah I'm black, but I'm not ghetto and not all blacks are ghetto and not all blacks are from the ghetto and not all blacks will remain in the ghetto, yet blacks and non-blacks alike often expect all blacks to be ghetto cause that aspect is always displayed in the media. I like Tyler Perry. His movies and his tv show portray all kinds of blacks you know. 

The thing I've had to fight about since I was a teen was the fact that I like heavy metal. From junior high school and on into college. Kids in high school (an all minority hs) would stick out their tongue at me and do that metal thing with their fingers and growl at me. Everybody knew who I was because I liked heavy metal. The stupid ones would call me devil worshiper to my face. The hispanic kids never got such grief. And when going to shows I could always count the blacks on one hand - including the bouncers. It got to a point where we all knew each other. I still listen to rock and one day I read in a music blog about the term bipster - a black hipster - and thought how stupid it was for the need for such a word. Eh, my point is just because I listen to heavy metal doesn't make me any less black. But it's just another thing that makes me "other." But it isn't me that makes me that it's that other blacks have made me that. If I didn't spend so much time dealing with being fat I'd be going crazy trying to figure out just what blackness is and this part of my identity would be in chaos. I learned long ago to just let it go. When other blacks try to give me shit about the music I start going on about polyrhythms, pentatonic scales, blues scales, minor harmonic keys, G7s and whatnot....it usually shuts them up cause who wants to listen to that. Thank you music degree.


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## gangstadawg (May 22, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> I think we have to be very careful not to equate a lack of attraction to racism or bigotry. Just because someone does not find me physically attractive or they have a preference for a thin woman or white woman doesn't mean they're a racist or a bigot. People can't do anything about their own inner drives that makes them prefer one thing over another. Personally I wouldn't want to be with someone who wasn't attracted to me but was willing to overlook it and date me anyway because I'm a nice person and he's a progressive thinker who can look beyond the fact that I'm the fattest woman he's ever seen up close.



your right but once it it crosses the line from "not your type" to i hate________ (fill in the blank with a race or bodytype) people or i hate________ (choose the gender) then add a stereotype of your choice than its prejudice and the person that is is calling it a preferance is using it as a vehicle for hate and hiding behind that word.

just because you have a preferance doesnt mean you have the right to outright "DISS" or verbally (or phyiscally) abuse a person because they dont meet your standards or preferances.

there is a differeance in saying im not into skinny women or skinny women are not my type and skinny people are assholes on crack with bad personalities.


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## LillyBBBW (May 22, 2008)

olwen said:


> I had to really think about this well before responding. It's like here's one of the problems about black culture whatever it is. It seems like the issues we face are more and more issues of class rather than race, which necessitates terms like buppie or bap or when people think Sean Comes or Jay Z or Russell Simmons are sellouts cause they'd rather wear a suit than super baggie jeans, speak proper english, and care about having legitimate business.
> 
> Yeah I'm black, but I'm not ghetto and not all blacks are ghetto and not all blacks are from the ghetto and not all blacks will remain in the ghetto, yet blacks and non-blacks alike often expect all blacks to be ghetto cause that aspect is always displayed in the media. I like Tyler Perry. His movies and his tv show portray all kinds of blacks you know.
> 
> The thing I've had to fight about since I was a teen was the fact that I like heavy metal. From junior high school and on into college. Kids in high school (an all minority hs) would stick out their tongue at me and do that metal thing with their fingers and growl at me. Everybody knew who I was because I liked heavy metal. The stupid ones would call me devil worshiper to my face. The hispanic kids never got such grief. And when going to shows I could always count the blacks on one hand - including the bouncers. It got to a point where we all knew each other. I still listen to rock and one day I read in a music blog about the term bipster - a black hipster - and thought how stupid it was for the need for such a word. Eh, my point is just because I listen to heavy metal doesn't make me any less black. But it's just another thing that makes me "other." But it isn't me that makes me that it's that other blacks have made me that. If I didn't spend so much time dealing with being fat I'd be going crazy trying to figure out just what blackness is and this part of my identity would be in chaos. I learned long ago to just let it go. When other blacks try to give me shit about the music I start going on about polyrhythms, pentatonic scales, blues scales, minor harmonic keys, G7s and whatnot....it usually shuts them up cause who wants to listen to that. Thank you music degree.



You simply _must_ read this blog entry from a writer I like to peek in on from time to time. It is brilliant! 

I am from dual cultures. Most are fairly neutral about what I do but there are still those who believe 'assimilation' is selling out, like I'm going against my own nature to be what I'm not. Racist ideaology, yet refined! It's fashioned to resemble some misguided form of ethnic pride. I've got nothing against ethnic pride, I just don't like it when it's at the expense of everyone else or attempts to keep people from realizing their own hopes and aspirations. I gave a free pass to my aged relatives. They grew up in an age of seeing crazy shit that would turn anyone into a raving xenophobe and they would never trust again. I wouldn't put up with it from anyone else though. I still did my thing but I knew I better not miss a single pow wow or I was going to hear about it. It's not like that anymore but I walked a very fine line in my 20s.

EDIT: Thankfully my mohawk delighted and amused people on that side but growing up ghetto was a different story. Again, I was a bully so no one said anything to my face but there were looks and whispers. Lot's of teeth sucking and eye rolling as if I was trying to dis-identify myself with being black. Just ignorant is all I have to say about that. On another note, my coworkers and my Pastor remark about how my manner of speech relaxes and changes completely when I'm talking with my relatives on the phone. I don't know what this mindset is about that you 'must' represent my expectations at all times or we'll call you an articulate. lol


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## Raqui (May 22, 2008)

This is wonderful that so many feel this topic. my personall preffrences are very strong. But I love people of all types and sizes as long as they are not trying to force themselves on me as a lover.


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## Raqui (May 22, 2008)

mergirl said:


> Right!?, its kinna confusing. I think i would think it strange if someone ONLY dated black or ONLY dated white people. I would always be wondering, at which point does preference become discrimination, albeit sometimes positive. And what is it about that certain race that people prefer? its just skin colour. But then skin colour can also represent a differing culture. Which is funny, because all black people i know have broad scottish accents and maby the closest they get to thier ancestors is a holiday every few years to see thier grandparents or something. My grandfather on my dads side was roma but i can only say a few words of "the kant" (which is actually sad) and i really like my home comforts and LOATH caravaning!! but still my skin is sallow. its a funny thing, skin, when it can become a part of your identity even when you dont identify with what other people are identifying about you!! lol..i think i melted my brain with that sentence..
> The worst racism i have been witness to was in the wake of 9/11 and was directed at my friends who is muslim and there was some old wanker guy saying "so what religion are these terrorist killers?" i went fucking mental and spouted something about christian crusades or something..and about fundimentalists not being real muslims...
> Anyway..i think the issues of fat acceptance and race are also applicable to different religions too..
> When you say some people have been very racist in thier beliefs about black woman do you mean that they have been out and out asshole racist? or that they have believed in racial steriotypes?..
> ...




I only date men who are Black and they have to be african american or from the west indies. jamican for example. I am not a racist but i know who i am sexually attracted to and who i am not. I personally dont like the facial structure that many africans from africa have. I also do not date my own Race which is Hispanic. I am not a racist but saying your are not racist doesnt means your sexually attracted to everyone. I love people and have friends of all nations. I just dont have sex with men of all nations. I believe my perfferences comes from who treated me the best at a young girl and who where the safe men in my life those who accepted the little chubby fat girl and hugged and loved her like any other child. Those who never made a bad remark about my size and who have always smiled at me with adore.

Those are the men i find most attractive. In fact I can take my husband (GOD REST HIS SOUL) who passed and find a strong physical link to my favorte church member Brother Greg who I loved very much.


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## Raqui (May 22, 2008)

Is anyone who like to come on the show please shoot me and email because we are looking for a few good people male or female to come on and join in.

You can check the page for your time zone to see if you will be avaliable for the show. All you have to do is call in and I tap you in. 

Raqui

www.blogtalkradio.com/LargeInChargeRadio


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## PolarKat (May 23, 2008)

I'm with you on this one.. especially from a perspective of a Bill 101 generation kid. As you know we got split down linguistic lines, so it became the Ethinics / Wasps vs the Pure Laine, which led to a strange phenomenon. 

On the Anglo side our neighbourhoods and school system was packed with with all races, and of course due to historic reasons, we were mostly upper middle class, or well to do working class, regardless of race/skin color. Our ethinc ghettos became anlgo ghettos. And as you stated the "cultureist" lines were washed pretty thin on our side. We grew up together, so there wasn't much difference between us, we talk the same, have simmilar backgrounds, were immersed in each others cultures etc.. You can hardly tell a white anglo from a black or green anglo..

On the Francophone side.. well we've just had the "accommodements raisonnable" hearings for the last year. for the last 10 years or so the Quebec govt. has been bringing in as many french speaking immigrants as possible, mostly north african, haitian etc.. Let's just say that your "cultureist" idea really pans out here. They isolated themselves on many levels from the immigrant population through bill 101, and now they're really having a hard time with what most of us anglos just find common sense. On the french side they now have french race/ethnic ghettos in montreal, something that doesn't quite exist on the anglo side.. well.. except for little italy.. It's like a microcosm of what going on in the states.. 



edx said:


> Just some kind of random, rambling, thoughts inspired by this thread. I'm living in a pretty different reality than are a lot of the people posting, so I'm not trying to comment on their experiences. Rather just talking about something I've seen, living in a few different places.
> 
> I think a lot of people, everywhere, are what I would call "culture-ist" (for lack of a real world). That is, we are raised within a culture that has certain ways of doing things, certain unspoken standards, and so on, and anyone who doesn't meet those standards tends to strike us at first as rude, ignorant, poorly educated, or simply dim. When we get exposed to people from other cultures, some people accept that there are more than one way of doing things, and try to accept people on their own terms, while others never do the validity of other cultures. (think of most north americans or wester europeans confronted with someone who insists on trying to bargain down set prices, for example).
> 
> ...


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## Raqui (May 23, 2008)

I hope you all come today to the show and voice some opinions HUGS Raqui

RACISM - IN THE PLUS SIZED COMMUNITY

www.blogtalkradio.com/LargeInChargeRadio 

We go through Racism in daily life sometimes. But how does this affect a community such as ours. Fat crosses all lines and we are hated in general. Are the statments true? Are certain acts racist or are they just preference? Is being fat easier for certain races? How can we leave race behind on the path to size acceptance? LOOKING FOR PEOPLE WHO WANT TO SPEAK ABOUT THIS TOUCHY SUBJECT!!!!

TODAY'S SHOW! - Racism In The Fat Community! 
Yes this is online radio which means anyone from anywhere in the world can listen live and CALL IN or ask questions in the CHAT ROOM!!!
Come on my Radio Show to talk about this topic from 
6-8pm eastern, 3-5 pacific, 4-6 mountain, 5-7 central. 
This is when the show is live, but don't worry if you happen to miss it the show is recorded and set up to listen to at any time!  

Come Join in and Visit My archived Radio Show - www.blogtalkradio.com/LargeInChargeRadio 

give me some thoughts and opinions here I would love to bring it up on the show. Looking forward to your thoughts  

Email me at [email protected] also email your shout outs to your people. Raqui


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## revolutionman (May 23, 2008)

I've never felt persecuted for either my race or for being fat. I've always strived for respect from people, and I've changed peoples minds plenty. Girls that never thought they'd do a guy my size, and biggoted assholes that never thought they'd enjoy the company of a Puerto Rican. You get the respect you inspire.


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## mergirl (May 27, 2008)

CG_8 said:


> I think Denzel is a good looking black man. I just don't drool over him as much as I do Viggo Mortensen, Sean Connery, James Mason, Gabriel Byrne, and Pierce Brosnan. Those guys are :smitten:


Sean Connery? sherioushly mish money penny? lol i really dont see it!! 

mer


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## mergirl (May 27, 2008)

Raqui said:


> I only date men who are Black and they have to be african american or from the west indies. jamican for example. I am not a racist but i know who i am sexually attracted to and who i am not. I personally dont like the facial structure that many africans from africa have. I also do not date my own Race which is Hispanic. I am not a racist but saying your are not racist doesnt means your sexually attracted to everyone. I love people and have friends of all nations. I just dont have sex with men of all nations. I believe my perfferences comes from who treated me the best at a young girl and who where the safe men in my life those who accepted the little chubby fat girl and hugged and loved her like any other child. Those who never made a bad remark about my size and who have always smiled at me with adore.
> 
> Those are the men i find most attractive. In fact I can take my husband (GOD REST HIS SOUL) who passed and find a strong physical link to my favorte church member Brother Greg who I loved very much.


My friend from trinidad said that generally most of the guys there ONLY find big women attractive. I read an article recently about women who live in there who get bullied if they are thin, who wont wear a bikini unless they are at least a size 18 and some women resort to eating chicken steroids to gain weight so that they will be more attractive to the men there. I guess i can see the point of having a preference relating to people who were nicer to you when you were younger..That makes sense. In my experience of the Black guys i know most of them prefer big women and if not always ssbbw's they like the J-low bottom types.. 
i am listening to your show now...it sounds great!

mer


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## superodalisque (May 27, 2008)

CG_8 said:


> I know many people will jump on this and pound me down for it, but I've never found any non-white men attractive. As far as fat acceptance, I realize it's a cultural thing for latinos and blacks to be more accepting of larger women than whites. At this forum, I think it's imperative to get along for the sake of this.



i won't jump on you for it. i think its because it hasn't been put on your social radar properly. for instance re: actors when have you ever seen denzel washington play a romantic lead? it just didn't happen. i have to confess i really don't find denzel that handsome because i know a lot of black men personally who make him look very plain. the images you probably get to see of black men generally are not that inspiring when it comes to the romance department. tyler perry has done a great job because he has put some really handsome black men in caring and sensitive roles in his comedies. generally you never see that. you probably mainly just get to see thugs, angry black men or kind of good but asexual black men in the media. the really sexy black men don't even get the access to that kind of work.


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## mergirl (May 27, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i won't jump on you for it. i think its because it hasn't been put on your social radar properly. for instance re: actors when have you ever seen denzel washington play a romantic lead? it just didn't happen. i have to confess i really don't find denzel that handsome because i know a lot of black men personally who make him look very plain. the images you probably get to see of black men generally are not that inspiring when it comes to the romance department. tyler perry has done a great job because he has put some really handsome black men in caring and sensitive roles in his comedies. generally you never see that. you probably mainly just get to see thugs, angry black men or kind of good but asexual black men in the media. the really sexy black men don't even get the access to that kind of work.


totally! Thats something i hadnt thought about until you mentioned it..but now i cant think of ANY black guys in romantic roles!!???
I mentioned denzel washington because he is someone that i find extremely sexy that most people will have heard of.. if i said "my friend so and so is HOT" who would know!? lmao
hmm.. wait..there MUST be a film where a black guy plays a romantic role.?? !!! lemme think..
erm..well i did watch a recent version of othello.. but i have no idea who played him.. of course the origional was played by a white guy!
This is ACTUALLY fucked up...
thanks a LOT oda! You have given me a NEW thing to be pissed off at.. my friends down the pub will hate you!!! lmao

xx mergirl


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## butch (May 28, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i won't jump on you for it. i think its because it hasn't been put on your social radar properly. for instance re: actors when have you ever seen denzel washington play a romantic lead? it just didn't happen. i have to confess i really don't find denzel that handsome because i know a lot of black men personally who make him look very plain. the images you probably get to see of black men generally are not that inspiring when it comes to the romance department. tyler perry has done a great job because he has put some really handsome black men in caring and sensitive roles in his comedies. generally you never see that. you probably mainly just get to see thugs, angry black men or kind of good but asexual black men in the media. the really sexy black men don't even get the access to that kind of work.



Have you seen Mississippi Masala? Denzel was the romantic lead in that film. Granted, it is from very early in his career, but that is one Denzel romantic film I've seen. 

I'm actually surprised to read your take on films and black men and romance. How do you interpret films like How Stella Got Her Groove Back, Love & Basketball, Love Jones, and other romantic films with a primarily black cast? Or do you see a change in the types of films marketed with black casts, as the films I mentioned are a few years old, and came out before the Tyler Perry films.


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## olwen (May 28, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i won't jump on you for it. i think its because it hasn't been put on your social radar properly. for instance re: actors when have you ever seen denzel washington play a romantic lead? it just didn't happen. i have to confess i really don't find denzel that handsome because i know a lot of black men personally who make him look very plain. the images you probably get to see of black men generally are not that inspiring when it comes to the romance department. tyler perry has done a great job because he has put some really handsome black men in caring and sensitive roles in his comedies. generally you never see that. you probably mainly just get to see thugs, angry black men or kind of good but asexual black men in the media. the really sexy black men don't even get the access to that kind of work.



Hello. Can I get a witness? Testify sistah.

I always think about how there just aren't too many black men in rock and roll. I admit as a kid, my ideal man would have been some guy who looked a lot like Sebastian Bach. I was so happy when Living Color came together. Finally black male rockers! But I thought - what's with the hair? There are a few more now, like the lead singer from Bloc Party or Gnarls Barkley, oh and that dude from Counting Crowes I think. There was even a black female rock singer from some awful awful band whose name I forget, I only bought the album cause she was black. It just always pained me that blacks didn't listen to or make rock en masse....had there been one hot black rock singer around when I was 13 or 14....


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## Wagimawr (May 28, 2008)

Actually, the lead singer of Thin Lizzy is black, if that counts  and of course there's Hendrix and Prince, but they seem to be the standouts, save for some of the oldsters like Chuck Berry; it just seemed to drop off even further in the 80s, save for his Princeness.


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## olwen (May 28, 2008)

butch said:


> Have you seen Mississippi Masala? Denzel was the romantic lead in that film. Granted, it is from very early in his career, but that is one Denzel romantic film I've seen.
> 
> I'm actually surprised to read your take on films and black men and romance. How do you interpret films like How Stella Got Her Groove Back, Love & Basketball, Love Jones, and other romantic films with a primarily black cast? Or do you see a change in the types of films marketed with black casts, as the films I mentioned are a few years old, and came out before the Tyler Perry films.



Not to answer for her, but I think Tyler Perry has done a lot to change the perception and portrayal of blacks in the media. I generally despise romantic films, and usually dismiss them as weak sentimental pap bordering on science fiction - but in a bad way and not in the so bad their good sort of cheesy kind either, so out of those the only one I've seen is How Stella Got her Groove Back, and I don't remember it. I think there is something about his films and his cache that are marketable to non-black audiences in a way that previous films have not been. His characters are realatable. If you replace them with non-blacks and tweak the stories of some, they'd still make sense (okay, maybe not his Ma'dea films) to non-blacks. 

I thought Pootietang (not a romantic film, but a take on blacksploitation films) was a brilliant film, and it didn't seem to reach wide audiences or get the recognition it deserves, yet a terrible comedy like Soul Plane seems to have been seen by more people. But then Quentin Tarantion has been able to make a carear out of doing his version of those same blacksploitation films....why? I hate to say it, but I think part of the reason for that is that sometimes non-black audiences still expect a certain amount of cooning from blacks in comedies anyway. Tyler Perry doesn't coon.

It reminds me of early Jazz music. Whites only found cool jazz palatable, and the record companies knew they could only sell jazz to whites if it was played by an all white orchestra with a white conductor. Hot jazz was devil music, the music of indecent people - i.e. black folks and criminals. No self respecting upstanding citizen would be caught dead listening to hot jazz or later race records. Meanwhile conductors like Benny Goodman would go up to harlem to play real jazz with the musicians there. The one jazz musician who could penetrate the white audiences was Duke Ellington, even tho he played hot jazz. One of my college professors related her story of listening to "race" music under the covers on a tiny transistor radio in the middle of the night so her parents wouldn't yell at her. This was in the 60's. 

Denzel Washington just never did anything for me, but Chitwel Ejiofor (played the romantic lead in Dirty Pretty Things - I could suck on those lips for days), Djemon Honshu, Mario Van Pebbles (who's now on All My Children), LL Cool J (I'm sure he's played the romantic lead more than once), and Ice Cube are all pretty hot.


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## olwen (May 28, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


> Actually, the lead singer of Thin Lizzy is black, if that counts  and of course there's Hendrix and Prince, but they seem to be the standouts, save for some of the oldsters like Chuck Berry; it just seemed to drop off even further in the 80s, save for his Princeness.



Ah yes, of course Hendrix. I was thinking of more heavier rock - the stuff I listened to back then was mostly like glam then thrash, then death metal. No blacks there. Hispanics, but not blacks.


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## Fascinita (May 28, 2008)

olwen said:


> Ah yes, of course Hendrix. I was thinking of more heavier rock - the stuff I listened to back then was mostly like glam then thrash, then death metal. No blacks there. Hispanics, but not blacks.



Gosh, I can't think of a single black hair metal guy. Nor thrash, nor death metal, actually.

But I can offer Bad Brains, Fishbone, DH Peligro (drummer for Dead Kennedys)... The drummer for Royal Crescent Mob was black, and they tended toward metal-funk fusion. Also, one or more members of early Faith No More were black, or at least wanted to be 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=VDwiTxXzFsA&feature=related


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## Santaclear (May 28, 2008)

Yeah, I was gonna say Bad Brains.
Carter Beauford, drummer for Dave Matthews Band.
Rosko Gee and Reebop Kwaaku Bah, bassist & percussionist played in Traffic, and later in Can. (That's probably before you guys' time.) Also Malcolm Mooney, the first singer of Can.
There are at least a couple of guys in death metal bands, but I can't remember which bands. Oh, and the singer of Candiria (kinda hardcore-death metallish but also a bit funk-fusiony.) 
James "Blood" Ulmer was really rock-inspired, especially in the late '70s-early '80s but his music is hard to categorize - tons of funk and jazz in it too.
Poly Styrene fronted X-Ray Spex, one of the best of the first wave of UK punk bands.
Barry Adamson played bass in Magazine (early UK new wave), later in Nick Cave's Bad Seeds, now a solo artist, film noirish, real good.
The Counting Crows guy isn't black.


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## mergirl (May 28, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


> Actually, the lead singer of Thin Lizzy is black, if that counts  and of course there's Hendrix and Prince, but they seem to be the standouts, save for some of the oldsters like Chuck Berry; it just seemed to drop off even further in the 80s, save for his Princeness.


i love phill lynot. He was asked what it felt like to be half black, half white and irish.. and he said "like a pint of guinnis". 
hmm.. yum!

mer


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## mergirl (May 28, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i won't jump on you for it. i think its because it hasn't been put on your social radar properly. for instance re: actors when have you ever seen denzel washington play a romantic lead? it just didn't happen. i have to confess i really don't find denzel that handsome because i know a lot of black men personally who make him look very plain. the images you probably get to see of black men generally are not that inspiring when it comes to the romance department. tyler perry has done a great job because he has put some really handsome black men in caring and sensitive roles in his comedies. generally you never see that. you probably mainly just get to see thugs, angry black men or kind of good but asexual black men in the media. the really sexy black men don't even get the access to that kind of work.


Though wait! In the film hairspray one of the main romantic leads is black. Though i guess the film is about racism so it doesnt really count. Actually although i loved "hairspray" it was like weird reverse racism because all the black people were really cool and the white people all really stupid! lmao And then we had the gorgous queen latiffa looking all dazzling and the alternative mother character to her was john travolta in a fat suit with a silly accent!?
i think i prefer the origional john waters version where everyone is crazy..hmm..

xmer


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## LillyBBBW (May 28, 2008)

There is Doug Pinnick from King's X, Zach de la Rocha from Rage Against the Machine and Maxim from Prodigy. Just thought I'd add to the list.


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## t3h_n00b (May 28, 2008)

olwen said:


> Ah yes, of course Hendrix. I was thinking of more heavier rock - the stuff I listened to back then was mostly like glam then thrash, then death metal. No blacks there. Hispanics, but not blacks.



Well there was a band called "Black Death" in the early Death Metal period. They are extremely obscure, but however known in some small circles. There was also 24-7 Spyz, Living Colour, Body Count, and Suffocation. 

edit, I found a link about black death: http://www.metal-archives.com/band.php?id=665

There days the scene is a bit more diverse, but it's still pretty white (largely as a function of market forces). 


I caught a lot of grief for playing guitar and being into rock and funk as a teenager and even now as a young adult. It really used to break me down when I was a kid, but now the same folks who look at me like that at my college come to parties where my band is playing. The black girls still think I'm a sellout and would never want to date me, but they still come to my shows. Basically, people don't make sense from minute to minute. I always found it ironic that this whole "not black enough" thing has nothing to stand on except self-hatred and self-ignorance. Black people created Rock & Roll, so wtf. How are we not black enough for being interested in our own culture; a genre that we established? When I actually traveled to Africa, I was vindicated to find that Africans (in my case, South Africans) spoke their languages immaculately with perfect diction, whether they are the richest of the rich or the most destitute of the poor. There were of course colloquialisms, but butchering the language was always frowned upon, even by the "homies" over there.


As for race in the plus sized community, I am sad to say that women of my own ethnicity (black women) have been the most hateful. It is also important to note that the experiences I've had were also regionally coded, that is, they didn't happen anywhere near the area where I and my S.O are from (NYC). She and I took a trip to Miami for spring break this year and many of the black women there just scowled and stared at us. My S.O is a fairly light skinned Latina so I think some of these women mistook her for being white, or maybe they knew she was Latina and considered us to be in an inter-racial relationship. Many black women (that I have come into contact with) have had serious issues with IR dating, they feel like all the "good black men" are either dead, in jail, married, gay, or dating white (read non-black) women. Furthermore, I have heard many black women talk about how they think black men will be with the lowest (i.e. fat, or ugly, or socially rejected) white girl before they'd give the best (i.e. what ever idealized vision they have of themselves) "sista" a chance. When the women who harbor those perceptions see my S.O and I, they have war in their eyes. It was tough to deal with, but I understood how they felt. I have a family full of black women and I can say that in their experiences, it really is hard to find a good black man. As a result, they feel possessive of black men and really feel abandoned by us when we date inter racially and invaded by the women we date. They invariably construe black men dating non-black women as a statement of hatred and disrespect of black women. This is NOT all black women, but this seems to be a somewhat common set of perceptions among them, ones that I have run up against. 

I can also say though, that in my experiences with blacks and Latinos in New York, they don't consider me to be in an IR relationship since my S.O is Puerto Rican and I'm black. When I say that I am in an IR relationship, their reaction is along the lines of "WTF, you're Black and she's Boriqua. That's the same thing." I guess that's region and race then. When I moved to NYC from North Carolina as a child, I'd never head of Puerto Rico and was totally surprised that there are many people from the Spanish speaking Caribbean and Latin America who appear "black". I think this all comes down to a matter of exposure though. In NYC, most black people have a tremendous degree of exposure to Latinos and vice versa, and both communities receive a lot of common treatment. It's apparently not like that in other parts of the US.


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## t3h_n00b (May 28, 2008)

I just thought of something else, I've run into people who think that black guys like fat girls more frequently than white guys. As a matter of fact, I've had a white female friend who felt insulted that a lot of black guys were interested in her. She thought that meant she was fat. Is that common.


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## mergirl (May 28, 2008)

t3h_n00b said:


> I just thought of something else, I've run into people who think that black guys like fat girls more frequently than white guys. As a matter of fact, I've had a white female friend who felt insulted that a lot of black guys were interested in her. She thought that meant she was fat. Is that common.


yeah.. i was saying that too..I'm just going from personal experience of my friends. My black friends do tend to prefer big women. I only have a few Black freinds so i dont want to make a sweeping generalisation here. But also my bbw friends said that, particularaly when they went to London that they were chatted up by black guys much more than white guys.

xmer


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## alienlanes (May 28, 2008)

olwen said:


> There was even a black female rock singer from some awful awful band whose name I forget, I only bought the album cause she was black.



Skunk Anansie? They had one really good song on the _Strange Days_ soundtrack, but geez that album was a stinker.

I'm surprised nobody's mentioned TV On The Radio yet.



olwen said:


> I thought Pootietang (not a romantic film, but a take on blacksploitation films) was a brilliant film, and it didn't seem to reach wide audiences or get the recognition it deserves, yet a terrible comedy like Soul Plane seems to have been seen by more people. But then Quentin Tarantion has been able to make a carear out of doing his version of those same blacksploitation films....why?



:wubu: for _Pootie Tang_. Nobody knows that movie, but it's _so good_! 

I think the difference is that _Pootie Tang_ parodies old blaxploitation movies in a cheerfully affectionate way and uses the genre to tell what's actually a very positive and unironic story about staying true to your values and giving back to your community. Whereas Tarantino is using blaxploitation stereotypes because they play into his white audience's idea of black urban culture as cool, titillating, badass, etc. It's the old Norman Mailer attitude of white artists and culture vultures who glamorize black American suffering as "authenticity." (As a white fan of hip-hop, I'm as complicit in this as anyone else.)

Back on the thread topic, "black people are into bigger women" is, of course, a pretty common stereotype. I was hit on at a bash once (not Heavenly Bodies, but a smaller regional bash) by a (white) woman whose icebreaker was "so what's it like to be the only white guy here?"  But as the saying goes, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data."


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## olwen (May 28, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Gosh, I can't think of a single black hair metal guy. Nor thrash, nor death metal, actually.
> 
> But I can offer Bad Brains, Fishbone, DH Peligro (drummer for Dead Kennedys)... The drummer for Royal Crescent Mob was black, and they tended toward metal-funk fusion. Also, one or more members of early Faith No More were black, or at least wanted to be
> 
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=VDwiTxXzFsA&feature=related



Of course, I've listened to and have had tapes of all those bands except DH Peligro. I forgot about their being blacks in those bands. I never got to see them live very often...



Santaclear said:


> Yeah, I was gonna say Bad Brains.
> Carter Beauford, drummer for Dave Matthews Band.
> Rosko Gee and Reebop Kwaaku Bah, bassist & percussionist played in Traffic, and later in Can. (That's probably before you guys' time.) Also Malcolm Mooney, the first singer of Can.
> There are at least a couple of guys in death metal bands, but I can't remember which bands. Oh, and the singer of Candiria (kinda hardcore-death metallish but also a bit funk-fusiony.)
> ...



Traffic, I never paid attention to. Never heard of Can. Dave Mathews Band is who I was thinking of...I actually never liked them so it went right over my head. I think I just confused them with Counting Crowes. I loved Candiria. I think I actually met the lead singer once. I remember thinking - cool a black guy. I just forgot . Never heard of X-Ray Spex. I love Nick Cave, seen him four times. Never paid attention to the Bad Seeds...



LillyBBBW said:


> There is Doug Pinnick from King's X, Zach de la Rocha from Rage Against the Machine and Maxim from Prodigy. Just thought I'd add to the list.



Of course of course. I know all those bands, and I remember the black dudes, just never saw any of them live, so it didn't stick.....


t3h_n00b said:


> Well there was a band called "Black Death" in the early Death Metal period. They are extremely obscure, but however known in some small circles. There was also 24-7 Spyz, Living Colour, Body Count, and Suffocation.
> 
> I'm so bad, I have albums still of all those bands. I totally forgot about Body Count and Suffocation...What the hell is wrong with my memory? Are you old enough to remember Dissasociatted? The lead singer was buff and black and had locks down to his ass. His girlfriend was a skinny white chick tho. And he was polite but standoffish....
> 
> ...



I'm surprised to hear that last bit. I'd think it was the other way around. I'd think it was common all over the US. I get mistaken for dominican (or mexican if I'm in texas) all the time. People come up to me and start asking me for directions in spanish. My spanish isn't that good, but I've learned to give directions cause it happens so often. Then they are surprised when I say I'm black.



t3h_n00b said:


> I just thought of something else, I've run into people who think that black guys like fat girls more frequently than white guys. As a matter of fact, I've had a white female friend who felt insulted that a lot of black guys were interested in her. She thought that meant she was fat. Is that common.


 Yes, it's very common. Black men hit on me more than any other race. At the Goddess dances the crowd is usually more blacks and hispanics than whites, and the white guys don't approach me or my friends.



SlackerFA said:


> Skunk Anansie? They had one really good song on the _Strange Days_ soundtrack, but geez that album was a stinker.
> 
> Yes! That's the band. I thought Juliete Lewis' version of PJ Harvey's Hardly Wait was awesome. I actually like her version better. But yeah, the rest of the album stank.
> 
> ...



Thanks everybody for chiming in with the bands with black guys in em. I'll have to pull out my cassette tape crate from out of the closet and give the old music a listen.


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## t3h_n00b (May 29, 2008)

well, I gotta throw Tamar Kali's name out there so the black rocking won't be male dominated. Also Mother's Finest had a female singer. On the modern tip, there's also my favorite band ever, D-Fe, which also features a femal vocalist.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8agfU7pcSog


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## olwen (May 29, 2008)

t3h_n00b said:


> well, I gotta throw Tamar Kali's name out there so the black rocking won't be male dominated. Also Mother's Finest had a female singer. On the modern tip, there's also my favorite band ever, D-Fe, which also features a femal vocalist.
> 
> http://youtube.com/watch?v=8agfU7pcSog



I've never heard of those bands. Now I wanna raid your music collection.


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## t3h_n00b (May 31, 2008)

well, my music collection is a little unfair. I'm an undergraduate now, but my long term academic goal is to attain a PhD in ethnomusicology. My area of interest is African-Americans in Rock music so some of this is research, hehe.

One of the best places to look (and I'd imagine you've run across these people), is the Black Rock Coalition. Their membership list runs the gamut of black rock bands. Some of my favorites (that I haven't already listed) are Sevendust, Skindred, Red Lights to Rio (formerly called Shaka Zulu Overdrive), Pillow Theory, Shelly Nicole's Blakbushe, Defunkt, Kelvynator, Jean Paul Bourrely, Screaming Headless Torsos, and Robert Randolph and the Family Band. They have a lot of members though (Prince, Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Erykah Badu, etc).

Three people that I think should be members but aren't for some odd reason are Victor Wooten, Greg Howe, and Tony Macalpine. Victor is one of the baddest bass players ever, and Greg and Tony are some of the best and most innovative technical guitarists of the past 20 years. You might like their stuff too.

You most certainly will laugh at this though, I know I (and my mama) have.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZlKzlfqmzpQ


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## olwen (May 31, 2008)

t3h, I've never heard of the black rock coalition. Never thought to look. I do know some of those bands tho. I'm going to check it out. Good on ya for doing a Phd no less in ethnomusicology. If you end up teaching at the college level, I'll gladly take some of your courses, especially if you play good music.


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