# fucking life... (an update)



## waitingforsuperman (Dec 16, 2005)

fuck all of you pricks.


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## EtobicokeFA (Dec 16, 2005)

I am sorry, to about that.  

You have my prayers. 

I hope your life turns around soon.


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## Boteroesque Babe (Dec 16, 2005)

You're in my thoughts, Waiting.


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## Jon Blaze (Dec 16, 2005)

You have my prayers.....


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Dec 16, 2005)

OK if I read this right you tried to commit suicide this week. Am I right?

This is gonna sound mean, and I really want to help you, so here goes.

If this is serious why the hell are you posting this on a web board instead of talking to someone in the mental health field????? What is it you expect anyone here to do? This is very upsetting to me. I lost a dear friend to suicide years ago and I just feel you need help. NOW. Not tomorrow. *TODAY - ASAP!!*

Find a free clinic and get help. No one here can do a thing for you.* PLEASE get help.* 



waitingforsuperman said:


> bloody hell. my head is spinning with what's gone on this week.
> 
> as stereotypically as possible, i am using a library computer to post this. this is stereotypical because i am officially homeless. not homeless and sleeping on somebody's couch, homeless and sleeping in my car parked at random college campuses at night.
> 
> ...


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## Jes (Dec 16, 2005)

I've PM'd him something similar. I don't know his sitch, and I realize lots and lots of families suck in many ways, but a 20 year old guy should have parents around, and if not parents, then grandparents, aunts/uncles. Desperate times require desperate measures. Even if there is bad blood there, or it's difficult, couchsurfing with family has to be better than carsleeping in the snow. If not, pick the least crappy relative and stay there.


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## ThatFatGirl (Dec 16, 2005)

You've got to want to do what it takes to make your situation better for yourself. I hope you find it within yourself to get some real help. 

I know how brutal the nights are in Cleveland right now. Shelters have counseling and health services that might be able to help you. Check your private messages for a list of Cleveland shelters.

Good luck and good wishes your way.

Laura


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## Fallen Angel (Dec 16, 2005)

You're certainly in my prayers. Please seek help... I don't know you, but I do know that you'd be amazed at the number of people who care about you if you stop and think about it!


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## waitingforsuperman (Dec 16, 2005)

to the few of you who genuinely care and offered your support and prayers, thank you.

to the rest of you: go fuck yourselves. bastards.


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## waitingforsuperman (Dec 16, 2005)

why the fuck does it matter?


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## Tina (Dec 16, 2005)

Joshua, try to hang in there. I have a friend who committed suicide and I always felt it was such a waste, because each of us has something to offer each other and the world. You never know what's going to be around the corner, and life being a cycle things certainly can, and likely will, turn around. I don't want to blow sunshine up your ass, but I do know, from having been there, that *feeling* hopeless, and the situation actually *being* hopeless is almost always two different things. I think that your situation and what you're going through will give you the capacity to help others down the line, and allows you to feel empathy for others. What is this life other than the opportunity to make connections with other people, and to feel, and give, love -- of many kinds?

I don't believe things are over for you, but I do believe that getting through this period will take internal fortitude and faith -- in yourself, too.

I will pray for you, and wish you well in this.

BTW, if this thing ever happens again, with the job, can you tell the owner that you have a skin condition on your arms and ask if you can wear something like a thermal underwear shirt, or something like it, under the uniform?


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## Totmacher (Dec 16, 2005)

I'm gonna preface this with, " I do not think you're stupid." 'cause I have an awful habit of sounding condescending even when I'm being earnest.

If you're ever in that situation again, say you have a cat. It worked for me. Atleast, that ended the conversation every time it came up. Not that I was anywhere near, "mangled" and I'm not gonna presume I've gone through anything like what you are going through, but I was hoping that might be encouraging, amusing, or in some way positive.I think you're covered under some disability law or other so they can't fire you just because you've got some antisocial tendencies.

I'll rememebr you in my prayers. Take care.


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## fred_elliot (Dec 16, 2005)

edited because i am not nice


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## Tina (Dec 16, 2005)

It's not that easy, Fred. Yes, in almost any situation that any of us is in, there is ALWAYS someone who has it worse. Does that mean we are not struggling ourselves? 

I find your post not so much harsh as just nasty (and no, not fair, because you really don't know the guy, do you?), and think it falls under the category of "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all."


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## fred_elliot (Dec 16, 2005)

edited because i am not nice


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## fred_elliot (Dec 16, 2005)

edited because i am not nice


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## Tina (Dec 16, 2005)

Then don't read it, and just pass it by. No need to take shots at someone like that -- it's not like you've offerred anything constructive -- or anything at all, other than criticism.


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## fred_elliot (Dec 16, 2005)

I am really a big cuddly human being, just a blunt one.


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## Carrie (Dec 16, 2005)

Joshua, many people are praying for you and sending good thoughts your way. Hang in there. Things do turn around.


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## fatgirl33 (Dec 16, 2005)

fred_elliot said:


> Pull yourself together.,... you are not exactly properly homeless if you start college soon.... You must have money.
> 
> Feel for people who are really struggling... and are TRYING to improve their situation.
> 
> Harsh, but fair.




Fair? I don't know about that... How about completely lacking compassion?


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## Boteroesque Babe (Dec 16, 2005)

Fred, I think it would be more honest to either delete your posts or replace them with an apology, rather than alter them as you've obviously done. This is not a game.

And I must say, I find it ironic (in a Jimmy Swaggart sort of way) that the F-word offends you, yet compassionless blow-harding directed at such an anguished young soul, doesn't seem to bother you.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Dec 16, 2005)

waitingforsuperman said:


> .sandie, if you think someone has attempted suicide, it's generally better not to begin your advice with "this is going to sound mean." i have a lot of fucking crap going on right now, and your being a jerk isn't going to inspire me to go talk to a professional. i've talked to professionals in the mental health field by the dozen. why am i posting this at a message board? because i really care about some of you guys (including a few i don't even know), and i try to share what's going on with people i care about - especialy since i have almost nobody irl i can talk to.


 
Listen - I am someone who has been clinically depressed all my life. I've contemplated suicide more times then I can count. I've been in therapy more years then you've been alive. It's part of my life and what I see you doing is not healthy. Yes - what you posted sounded like you tried to kill yourself a few days ago. If you did - you need help. But instead of seeking help you come here and post about what you did and I'm not sure why you do this. What is the motivation? Are you looking for help and/or advice? Then my advice is - get help. If you are so depressed that you tried to kill yourself there is nothing anyone here can do for you - and prayer while all well and good is not gonna help you right now - you need medical intervention. 

Am I being mean. Maybe - I guess it depends on if you want to see my advice as mean. You need help. You came here looking for help. My advice is this is not the place to look for it. If you are in school - there are many places you can look for help there. 

I'm glad you got mad at me. It shows me your not really that far down in that *dark place* that I've been many times in my life. Indifference on your part would have been a BIG red flag. 

Sometimes you can't be nice when someone is crying out for help. And you are doing that. Many people here have given you many ways to get help - but only *YOU* can get that help. I truly hope you do so.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Dec 16, 2005)

waitingforsuperman said:


> oh, also sandie, as to what people here can do for me...i believe prayer can do infinitely more than a doctor.



Then we have nothing to discuss. Prayer is fine - Doctors and medication are better IMHO.



> that doesn't mean i'm not seeking help. i'm not stupid, and your assumption that i haven't sought any professional help seems to indicate that you think i'm stupid.



No. And I am sorry you see it that way. All I meant was you need more help than what can be given to you on a web board.



> i was just asking for prayer, and, like i said, letting some people i care about know what's going on.



You could have done that in private. To be honest.


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## Seth Warren (Dec 16, 2005)

Am I the only one here who thinks this kids needs professional help _and_ a LiveJournal?

Pretty much everything Sandie_Zitkus said was right on. Posting on a messageboard and getting angry when people comment in a way which doesn't suit you (this being a public forum and all - imagine that) shows you're not *that* far gone. Apathy and indifference are the killers.

I don't wish to belittle personal anguish, but a lot of WFS' posts smack of someone screaming for attention. Call me a cynic (accurate) and a big old meanie (inaccurate), but I've come across far too many people like WFS in my lifetime. The pain is real, but the methods they employ in dealing with it are further slips down the spiral. Worse yet, they tend to take others with them - unacceptable.

It would seem to be that WFS has a choice: either continue feeling miserable and self-abusive until that leads to its inevitable conclusion. Or, buckle-down, get professional help and give a big middle finger to the world for being fucked up, rather than letting everything that is wrong with life defeat you.

Three guesses as to what I chose to do......


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Dec 16, 2005)

Thank you Seth. And I agree completely. I've been this kid. And he needs help. No one can do it for him. 



Seth Warren said:


> Am I the only one here who thinks this kids needs professional help _and_ a LiveJournal?
> 
> Pretty much everything Sandie_Zitkus said was right on. Posting on a messageboard and getting angry when people comment in a way which doesn't suit you (this being a public forum and all - imagine that) shows you're not *that* far gone. Apathy and indifference are the killers.
> 
> ...


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## fred_elliot (Dec 16, 2005)

which is kinda what I said - albeit in a less eloquent way.. And the do-gooder bleeding heart liberals got all upset so I edited like a good Fred.


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## waitingforsuperman (Dec 16, 2005)

i'm leaving.

thanks for your support, cocksuckers.

fuck you.

don't worry. you won't have to hear me bitch anymore. life is wonderful.


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## Tina (Dec 16, 2005)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Listen - I am someone who has been clinically depressed all my life. I've contemplated suicide more times then I can count. I've been in therapy more years then you've been alive. It's part of my life and what I see you doing is not healthy. Yes - what you posted sounded like you tried to kill yourself a few days ago. If you did - you need help. But instead of seeking help you come here and post about what you did and I'm not sure why you do this. What is the motivation? Are you looking for help and/or advice? Then my advice is - get help. If you are so depressed that you tried to kill yourself there is nothing anyone here can do for you - and prayer while all well and good is not gonna help you right now - you need medical intervention.



Is it not possible to do both -- to get professional help AND to post looking for some compassion? How would any of us know he hadn't? In any case, sometimes a person just needs to shout out into the void and flail about a bit and know that someone is there to hear and has at least some compassion and caring. 

I don't find it taxing to give a person having such a hard time a bit of support, so it mystifies me when others either cannot do that, or, more, have to pick at a person during such times. If someone is just posting for attention, that can be annoying, but when they are having a hard a time as this person, I find that to be different and give a whole hell of a lot more leeway. It's so easy to criticize when it's someone else's life, eh? I don't believe having this attitude qualifies one as a bleeding heart liberal any more than I think having Fred's opinion makes one an asshole. Maybe I should re-think that, though, and I'll wear the Liberal badge proudly any day.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Dec 16, 2005)

Edited because - Not interesting in this particular conversation.


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## Tina (Dec 16, 2005)

Sad, really. You know what, Sandie, this isn't at ALL about you, yet you try to make it so. Frankly, I wasn't even really thinking of you when I posted, except to wonder how you knew if he had only posted here, of if you just assumed it. We can't know what he's done other than what he tells us. If a person is feeling suicidal and has talked to a professional about it but doesn't mention that, why assume he hasn't.

Please get over yourself and your raging self-focus, Sandie. Again, this was NOT about you.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Dec 16, 2005)

Edited because - not interested in this particular conversation


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## Carrie (Dec 16, 2005)

fred_elliot said:


> which is kinda what I said - albeit in a less eloquent way.. And the do-gooder bleeding heart liberals got all upset so I edited like a good Fred.



You were hateful to him, while Seth was not. Don't compare, because there's no comparison. And if giving a shit about my fellow humans and speaking up when someone is being a flaming arse to someone else makes me a do-gooder bleeding heart liberal, then fine, that's what I am. I'd still much rather be me than you. 

I mean, really, what kind of small, pathetic, lonely life do you lead, that you take joy in critiquing the language of someone obviously in pain? Like I said, I'm not a fan of these kind of public declarations either, but he's obviously reaching out to us. You could have made your point without being a complete jerk. Besides, if you really had no problem with the wretched things you originally said, why did you edit your posts? 

"Harsh but fair" my ass.


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## fred_elliot (Dec 16, 2005)

I think this thread should be terminated.

Clearly highlighting vastly different opinions and it will benefit nobody to argue it out.

Hope you have a warm sleeping bag Joshua.

btw - i don't have a problem with my opinions. I stand by them. Simply was surprised by the responses and saw little point in creating more ill feeling on a subject which isn't the core focus of these boards.

I actually know considerably more about this (from my profession) than you may believe. Despite my professional views, I can still recognise when a kick up the arse is the best medicine.


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## Tina (Dec 16, 2005)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Don't quote my posts Tina and I won't even give it a second thought about it being about me. Thanks honey!



I addressed the part to you in my first paragraph, which I think seems obvious, and was in no way rude. The second paragraph didn't even mention you, but mentioned Fred.

And thankfully, I am not your honey, so please refrain. 



> For the last time Tina - you quoted my post. Now you tell me how I don't know you're talking to me??? Hmmm? This is priceless.



I can't help it if you think everything is about you, and go into histrionics, even when you are not mentioned. You expect me to flame you so that's what you see. Not my problem. Again, get over yourself. I have nothing more to say to you.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Dec 16, 2005)

Edited because - Not interested in this particluar conversation.


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## Fallen Angel (Dec 16, 2005)

waitingforsuperman said:


> i'm leaving.
> 
> thanks for your support, cocksuckers.
> 
> ...


Please don't let them get to you. I for one know that it takes incredible courage to reach out as you did, and I applaud you for it.

Fred, what right do you have to criticize anyone's plea for help? At least he *made* one!


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## Tina (Dec 16, 2005)

See, I find this ironic, given that when DerekFA killed himself, some seemed surprised and wished he'd have made a cry for help. When someone does, they're stomped on.

Big differences of opinions and styles here, which is normal, but really, is there any 'right way,' especially when people read their own drama -- and just life experiences -- into a person's post? I'm thinking not.


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## exile in thighville (Dec 16, 2005)

what the fuck just happened here?? i talked to this kid online like, literally 48 hours ago and he seemed fine...i missed this entire post, and i wish i didn't because i have a history of getting over suicidal thoughts. could someone pm me and explain what he said though?


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## Egbert Souse (Dec 16, 2005)

fred_elliot said:


> which is kinda what I said - albeit in a less eloquent way.. And the do-gooder bleeding heart liberals got all upset so I edited like a good Fred.



*Crosses Fred off list of potential psychiatric professionals*


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## fred_elliot (Dec 16, 2005)

Egbert Souse said:


> *Crosses Fred off list of potential psychiatric professionals*



Funny you should say that Egbert...........................................................................


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## Egbert Souse (Dec 16, 2005)

fred_elliot said:


> Funny you should say that Egbert...........................................................................



Your diagnostic abilities are firing on all cylinders.

The rest of you, to quote The Bunion, no so much.i


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## Fallen Angel (Dec 16, 2005)

Tina said:


> See, I find this ironic, given that when DerekFA killed himself, some seemed surprised and wished he'd have made a cry for help. When someone does, they're stomped on.
> .


Tina, 
That's exactly what I was trying to say... I just can't bring myself to use those words yet.

Did you know him well?


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Dec 16, 2005)

Fallen Angel said:


> Tina,
> That's exactly what I was trying to say... I just can't bring myself to use those words yet.
> 
> Did you know him well?



I think what is happening here is a difference of opinion on what constitutes *HELP*.

That's all. 

Twice in my life I've had 2 dear friends who thought death was the better option. One succeeded in killing themselves, and I will never know if I could have said something - anything- to stop it from happening. The other - he tried but did not succeed - and he told me *NOTHING* I or anyone, could say or do would have changed his mind - he wanted to die and he tried, and almost succeeded. 

I've been there too - more times than I really want to admit. And when you are in that state of mind - not a whole lot can change it. It's the darkest place I have ever been. But I do know I had no emotion when I was in that place. Nothing mattered.

The truth of the matter is- if someone wants to die - they will find a way to do it. Usually silently and privately. 

This young man is reaching out for help - of course he is. But other than telling him to find a professional to talk to - what else can be done? Seriously.

Some people believe in tough love - others don't. I say do whatever works if it will save a life. Losing someone to suicide is far more painful than anything you could ever think you could live through. 

If anyone wants to call me compassionless - be my guest. But nothing could be further from the truth.


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## Tina (Dec 16, 2005)

Fallen Angel said:


> Tina,
> That's exactly what I was trying to say... I just can't bring myself to use those words yet.
> 
> Did you know him well?



No, I don't know Joshua at all, but he posted here about feeling despondent and wanting to kill himself. I tend to take those things seriously, and find that a kick in the ass can possibly come from those who he knows well, done properly and in the right situation, not by some anonymous person on a message board. That way it just seems cold. 

When a person is feeling that low and is reaching out, I tend to prefer to give support. After all, I don't know him well enough to do anything else.


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## Tarella (Dec 16, 2005)

Dear WaitingforSuperman,

I am not sure what this thread is all about but obviously you are going through some really rough times. I don't know what else to say, but that I think you should be talking to a professional rather than seeking help on the boards. This board is chalk full of wonderful people who are compassionate, caring, and astute;that being said, there are a few here who purposedly try to hurt, belittle, and offend others. 

I wish I was SuperWoman....I think some people get frustrated at hearing your pain because it makes us feel helpless to help you. Please reconsider the thought of suicide.

Sincerely,

Tara


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## Fallen Angel (Dec 16, 2005)

Tina said:


> No, I don't know Joshua at all, but he posted here about feeling despondent and wanting to kill himself. I tend to take those things seriously, and find that a kick in the ass can possibly come from those who he knows well, done properly and in the right situation, not by some anonymous person on a message board. That way it just seems cold.
> 
> When a person is feeling that low and is reaching out, I tend to prefer to give support. After all, I don't know him well enough to do anything else.



Sorry, I guess that was a bit confusing! I meant did you know Derek well? 
I joined the boards to try and meet as many of his friends as possible...


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## Moonchild (Dec 16, 2005)

WFS - I dunno if you're gonna read this or what, but I've gonna put this out there for you should you choose to read it.

I can't pretend to know what's going on in your life that can drive you so close to the edge, but I do know that it's the time you spend on your knees that define who you are, and I've got my own scars as credentials. Scars are funny things; they show how the human body reacts to damage by strengthening itself. The mind does the same thing. If it takes years of gritting your teeth just to get out of bed every day, at the end you'll be a better person for it.

I respect your favor of prayer over doctors, but I disagree with it. My own faith has gotten me through some hard times, but that in itself isn't gonna make everything alright. There are a bunch of quacks out there. I know because I came VERY close to losing my best friend because her dumbfuck doctor pumped meds into her without actually solving any problems. But you've gotta believe in the people that really do want to help you. Believe it or not, but there are people who become therapists because they actually want to help people.

That is of course not to say I won't be keeping you in prayer, because I certainly will.

Two years ago I was crying and bleeding, crawling helplessly through the dirt of my existence, trying to find a place to hide from the pain. But it doesn't work that way. If you're not careful, pain will become your best friend, and it'll seem like the only one that hasn't betrayed you. And the only way to stop it is to first believe that you can make your emotions bow to your will. And that's a lot easier when you've got a little help.


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## Fallen Angel (Dec 16, 2005)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I think what is happening here is a difference of opinion on what constitutes *HELP*.
> 
> Some people believe in tough love - others don't. I say do whatever works if it will save a life. Losing someone to suicide is far more painful than anything you could ever think you could live through.
> 
> If anyone wants to call me compassionless - be my guest. But nothing could be further from the truth.



I'm the last person here you have to tell that to... 

I'm just going to assume your last statement is true and you posted this not knowing that I am-was DerekFA's girlfriend/ sort of fiance.


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## Tina (Dec 16, 2005)

Oh, dear woman, I had no idea. I hope my mention of Derek's suicide wasn't upsetting to you.

No, I didn't know Derek by anything other than his posts. He had a wonderful, open face, though, and I always thought he seemed like a nice guy, and I felt it was such a tragedy for someone so young, funny and smart to have done such a thing that it's stayed with me.

I think if anyone understands the implications of suicide it is you. My best wishes to you. I went through the pain of this with a friend, but fortunately never with a boyfriend or husband. My heart goes out to you, Angel.


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## Emma (Dec 16, 2005)

Josh don't be a dick. Call me if you need me.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Dec 16, 2005)

Fallen Angel said:


> I'm the last person here you have to tell that to...
> 
> I'm just going to assume your last statement is true and you posted this not knowing that I am-was DerekFA's girlfriend/ sort of fiance.



No I had no idea. But I still don't have ant idea what I posted that was so offensive.


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## fred_elliot (Dec 16, 2005)

Bringing back all the oh so wonderful memories of yr 3 in med school. (in terms of my placement)

You OK Emma?


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## Emma (Dec 16, 2005)

deleted. ...........


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## Emma (Dec 16, 2005)

................deleted too.


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## saucywench (Dec 16, 2005)

Tina said:


> No, I don't know Joshua at all, but he posted here about feeling despondent and wanting to kill himself. I tend to take those things seriously, and find that a kick in the ass can possibly come from those who he knows well, done properly and in the right situation, not by some anonymous person on a message board. That way it just seems cold.
> 
> When a person is feeling that low and is reaching out, I tend to prefer to give support. After all, I don't know him well enough to do anything else.


 
Tina, thank you for providing the opportunity to post my favorite quote (quotes?) of all time. Here 'tis:

Is there not much more mystery in the relations of man to man than we generally recognize? None of us can truly assert that he really knows someone else, even if he has lived with him for years. Of that which constitutes our inner life we can impart even to those most intimate with us only fragments; the whole of it we cannot give nor would they be able to comprehend it. We wander through life together in a semi-darkness in which none of us can distinguish exactly the features of his neighbour; only from time to time, through some experience that we have of our companion, or through some remark that he passes he stands for a moment close to us, as though illumined by a flash of lightning. Then we see him as he really is. After that we again walk on together in the darkness, perhaps for a long time, and try in vain to make out our fellow-travellers features.

To this fact, that we are each a secret to the other, we have to reconcile ourselves. To know one another cannot mean to know everything about each other; it means to feel mutual affection and confidence, and to believe in one another. To analyse others--unless it be to help back to a sound mind someone who is in spiritual or intellectual confusion--is a rude commencement, for there is a modesty of soul which we must recognize, just as we do that of the body. The soul, too, has its clothing of which we must not deprive it, and no one has a right to say to another: Because we belong to each other I have a right to know all your thoughts... In this matter giving is the only valuable process; it is only giving that stimulates. Impart as much as you can of your spiritual being to those who are on the road with you, and accept as something precious what comes back to you from them... Only those who respect the personality of others can be of real use to them.

I think, therefore, that no one should compel himself to show to others more of his inner life than he feels it natural to show. We can do no more than let others judge for themselves what we inwardly and really are, and do the same ourselves with them. The one essential thing is that we strive to have light in ourselves. Our strivings will be recognized by others, and when people have light in themselves, it will shine out from them. Then we get to know each other as we walk in the darkness, without needing to pass our hands over each others faces, or to intrude into each others hearts.



Albert Schweitzer
from
Memoirs of Childhood and Youth​


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## Fallen Angel (Dec 16, 2005)

Tina said:


> Oh, dear woman, I had no idea. I hope my mention of Derek's suicide wasn't upsetting to you.
> 
> No, I didn't know Derek by anything other than his posts. He had a wonderful, open face, though, and I always thought he seemed like a nice guy, and I felt it was such a tragedy for someone so young, funny and smart to have done such a thing that it's stayed with me.
> 
> I think if anyone understands the implications of suicide it is you. My best wishes to you. I went through the pain of this with a friend, but fortunately never with a boyfriend or husband. My heart goes out to you, Angel.



Thank you so much, Tina! It's always a shock to see the words "killed himself", but no, it didn't upset me. I like that people remember him, I just wish it were for any other reason.

He did have such a wonderful face  He had a wonderful everything!

Thank you for being such a caring person! It's good to know that that's the kind of people he met here.


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## Miss Vickie (Dec 16, 2005)

Joshua, clearly you're in pain, clearly you're angry -- at us, at your situation, possibly at life in general. I've been there, I've wondered if it was even worth trying to continue. So I know, to an extent, what you're feeling in a general way, even if I haven't gone through exactly what you've gone through.

With that in mind, I'm telling you to get help. And keep getting help if the help you're getting isn't helping enough. Medications, as I told you in the last thread you started about this subject, sometimes need tweaking. Sometimes when someone is in crisis they need different, additional medication on a short term basis. Prayer is great, and it's not at all a contraindication to getting professional, psychiatric help; I'm a great believer in both! Why not give both a try, at least through the holidays, and see what happens. If it doesn't work, you can always follow through on your plan later. But if it does work -- and I believe it will -- think of what you'll gain: life. Real life, not just existance. A life with joy, with love. To me that's definitely worth the effort of calling a crisis line or showing up at a hospital or calling someone who can actually help you.

I've lost two friends in the last two years to suicide. One because the pain of his health problems was too much to bear; the other because the pain of surviving sexual abuse (at the hands of a priest) was too much to bear. I feel so sad that they didn't reach out and get help. They were husbands, fathers, and wonderful loving men. The world is a sadder place without them. Just as the world would be sadder without you, Joshua. 

Nobody wins with depression and suicide. The only way to feel better is to get professional help. It's truly the only way, but you have to take the first step, and then follow through on your treatment. I happen to think life is worth it. I hope that someday you'll agree, even if you have your doubts right now. I wish that my friends had done that. I wish that Derek had done that. And I hope that you will do that.


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## Tina (Dec 16, 2005)

Saucywench, this is so wonderful I've saved it. So true.

Between classes, I was eating lunch at a local cafe. An elderly gent had finished and got up from his table. Being a people-watcher kinda gal I looked up at him. We smiled and he began talking -- small talk. He mentioned he was in WWII (as was my dad), and then he started talking about when he was in Paris and saw Mr. Schweitzer give a speech there and how inspiring he was. I've always wanted to read his works and this quote of yours has just reminded me of that. Thanks for posting it -- it's a reminder of how mysterious we all are inside, and, in some ways, delicate.


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## Tina (Dec 16, 2005)

Fallen Angel said:


> Thank you so much, Tina! It's always a shock to see the words "killed himself", but no, it didn't upset me. I like that people remember him, I just wish it were for any other reason.
> 
> He did have such a wonderful face  He had a wonderful everything!
> 
> Thank you for being such a caring person! It's good to know that that's the kind of people he met here.



Thank you for your kind words, Angel. I know you came here to look around because of Derek, but I hope you plan to stick around. I've been enjoying reading your posts here on this board, and posting with you in various other threads.


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## Emma (Dec 16, 2005)

also edited because i am a drunken arse.


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## MissToodles (Dec 16, 2005)

I don't know if you'll get to read this anytime soon but are you sure there isn't anyone at your college who can help you get temporary housing? or try to go to your local department of social services. be well!


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## fatlane (Dec 17, 2005)

I don't think there's _any_ season to create hostilities. But, yes, certainly not this particular one.

Depression means the mind reacts out of proportion to emotional stimuli. The reaction is especially strong to "Quit whining and pull yerself up by yer bootstraps!" stuff or "It's all in your head: MAKE yourself happy, dammit!" types of exhortations. It happens. I've been there, as recently as last night.

That being said, it's important to recognize spiralling. If you find yourself talking about how miserable your life is not to get help, but to reinforce your own vision of cosmic oppression and drear existence, then you're spiralling. Yes, you can be sleeping in your car in a Cleveland winter. We all agree that's a horrible scenario. Yes, you can be jobless. That's a rotten situation, too. Spiralling will keep you there. Making a decsion to accept help - and that's a decision that _can_ be made - means you'll accept the help and realize your life _can_ improve when you reach out, that you don't have to remain in the irrational world of your depression's construction.

There are rational solutions to the problems of survival: food, water, clothing, shelter. For emotional survival, there are rational solutions, as well, and they begin with realizing an over-emphasis on the negative aspects of the self is a product of chemical forces in a brain that can be recognized, dealt with, and managed, often without long-term medication.

WFS, in case you're lurking, see the people here on the board in your area who have the inclination to help you, strings or no strings attached. Accept that help and your situation will improve. Allow your attention to shift away from your immediate situation and put it towards thinking about how you're going to extricate yourself from this trap you're in. When you're in a trap, that's the only worthwhile thing to do. Complaining about how awful the trap is or fantasizing about how much better life will be outside the trap do you no good whatsoever. All that matters is logically pondering the issue of _how to get out of the trap_.

I needed Prozac for three months back in the start of 1997 to pull me away from a deep, deep abyss. Since then, I've been managing with what I picked up in my talking cures. I've been working with my faith on this matter - but not alone. Seek after the counsel of someone else in your faith if you feel strongly about that route as being preferable to medication. Indeed, I agree it's much, much more effective. But you have to actively go that route. Nothing is handed to you in the way of healing. It's an active, involved process you work for the rest of your life.

Forgive yourself, forgive others. Let go of the ill feelings and focus on getting out of your trap. If you refuse help from others, you may even be refusing the help from God you prayed for. 

I truly do hope you pull out of the spiral and take hold of the lifelines people are throwing you. You are not alone.


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## saucywench (Dec 17, 2005)

fatlane said:


> (All that stuff he said...)


 
Excellent post, containing excellent advice and recommendations. I heartily concur with everything you have said.

Depression seems to be akin to alcoholism, in that the best help seems to come from those who have traveled that road themselves (not to discount the good advice others here have offered.)


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## BBWMoon (Dec 17, 2005)

fatlane said:


> I don't think there's _any_ season to create hostilities. But, yes, certainly not this particular one.
> 
> Depression means the mind reacts out of proportion to emotional stimuli. The reaction is especially strong to "Quit whining and pull yerself up by yer bootstraps!" stuff or "It's all in your head: MAKE yourself happy, dammit!" types of exhortations. It happens. I've been there, as recently as last night.
> 
> ...




Excellent Post, FL.


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## Jes (Dec 17, 2005)

fatlane said:


> one.
> 
> Depression means the mind reacts out of proportion to emotional stimuli. The reaction is especially strong to "Quit whining and pull yerself up by yer bootstraps!" stuff or "It's all in your head: MAKE yourself happy, dammit!" types of exhortations. .



True. And I believe you and I have been there on that one, right?


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## fatlane (Dec 17, 2005)

EVERY depressed person's been there on that one! 

Like I said, nobody with depression is alone. It's just a matter of reaching beyond the self to find the key to escaping the trap.


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## Jane (Dec 17, 2005)

Fatlane,

That is one of the most intelligent, well thought out answers I've seen on any forum.

Thank you for your insight.


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## Mini (Dec 17, 2005)

Just do like I did a couple months back: Do a really half-assed job of it, take a week to tell your parents about it, do some soul-searching, realise your problems are your own fault, and do what's necessary to get over 'em. Suicide ain't the answer, no matter how tempting an option it might be.

/Has no idea what the dude's problems are
//Or were, if you want to be morbid
///Is sympathetic to a point
////Feels the dude could have been a bit more mature about it
/////Still feels that the best cry for help is a bolt action on a belltower


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## la_fille_dodue (Dec 17, 2005)

Weird, I thought that Melissa was Derek's longtime girlfriend.

I hung out with him and I never remember him saying his girlfriend's name was Jessica.

....strange


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## Zoom (Dec 17, 2005)

Anyone killing himself or herself will have to contend with God looking at you and saying, "You are charged with murder..."

And hey! Nobody on this board better commit suicide before I do! I got first dibs! I'm 14 years older then W.F.S. so I've waited longer.


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## exile in thighville (Dec 17, 2005)

Egbert Souse said:


> *Crosses Fred off list of potential psychiatric professionals*



LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL egbert.


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## Angel (Dec 18, 2005)

is like a major emotional trama. It can be episodic (brought on by a specific incident in one's life) or chronic (long lasting and sometimes due to a multitude of painful issues). Many people who are experiencing emotional pain turn to alcohol or drugs. Others turn to dangerous and illicit sexual activities. For some, there comes a point when the emotional pain is so severe and constant, that temporary relief is only felt while or after experiencing some form of physical pain or torture. After prolonged periods of intense emotion pain that just doesn't seem to go away, somehow, as a sort of coping mechanism, the human body and mind can intercept the emotional pain. A person knows that they are hurting, but they can no longer *feel* the emotional pain. They want the intense *hurting* and sadness to stop and the only way (they think) is to bring the emotional *hurting* to a physical crescendo. This is usually brought about by self-infliction. Cutting. Somehow, the combination of self-infliction, the physical pain that accompanies the cutting, and the sight of seeing oneself bleeding brings a sort of temporary relief to the intense emotional hurting and pain that was previously being experienced. Like with recreational drugs, there is a sudden rush, then a temporary euphoria, and ultimately an emotional crashing when one realises what they have done. The despair begins again. It is a vicious cycle. People who suffer from this learn how to hide their injuries and physical scars, or they lie about the causes. Recovery only begins when one finally realises that cutting has become an addiction and that it only brings temporary relief. There is help. There is no shame in seeking help. There are other alternatives to remedy the emotional pain that is felt. Just because one person doesn't understand, or just because one Doctor doesn't help, or just because one med doesn't make a difference, do not give up searching or trying to find the remedy that WILL eventually work for you. Medicine is a science. Sometimes it does seem like trial and error, but there IS HOPE. 

And yes, prayer does help, but sometimes we need to also reach out for help. Sometimes the answer to our prayer is found in another human being who is both kind and compassionate and knowledgeable in this area and who also can more expertly advise as to what medications are appropriate for our individual conditions. Also remember that each day is a new beginning. Even better, each moment that we breathe can be a new beginning. Forgive yourself and those who have hurt you or caused you pain. Take a deep breath, exhale slowly. Tell yourself that you are worthy of love and appreciation, and that right now you will begin to love and appreciate yourself... and you will take whatever steps are necessary to aid in helping yourself find recovery and happiness within. It's a new beginning, Joshua. Be well. You have friends here that are concerned and who do care.


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## Missy9579 (Dec 18, 2005)

I read this post a few days ago, and I just surpised that no one of an authorative figure over the board seemed to mind that people were like, making a sucicide pact on this board. Call me crazy.


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## fred_elliot (Dec 18, 2005)

BigCutieViolet said:


> I read this post a few days ago, and I just surpised that no one of an authorative figure over the board seemed to mind that people were like, making a sucicide pact on this board. Call me crazy.



Ditto, it seems quite frightening. I have read all the sensationalist news items on 'young adults' and suicide, but to see it in reality, this seems frightening - especially as we are a community that I wouldn't expect to have any special links. Is it really so prevelant?


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## Webmaster (Dec 18, 2005)

BigCutieViolet said:


> I read this post a few days ago, and I just surpised that no one of an authorative figure over the board seemed to mind that people were like, making a sucicide pact on this board. Call me crazy.



I mind alright and this is obviously most disconcerting. So what does one do? Ban posters for profanity? Edit posts for content? Delete threads for being off-topic? Or leave things alone because there has been good advice and discussion that might help?


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## Missy9579 (Dec 18, 2005)

I personally, would have deleted the thread. Supposedly this kid has tried to kill himself before,,,,or else just wanted attention. If he is going to do , he is going to do it. Advice is good, but having another girl tell him yah, if you are gonna do it call me we will do it together. 

I know you are always concerned about Dimensions reputation, not being a porn site and stuff....but do we really want the reputation that young kids come here, post about suicide and they can find someone to do it with here?

I personally think all this kid wants is attention, IF he was going to kill himself, he would have by now, those who are serious about suicide dont generally advertise it, or even reach out for help, They do it, they dont talk about it. And clearly he did not come here for help, as he cursed at all of those who had many good sugestions for him.

So, I dont know, I just wanted it to be know that I find the thread disturbing. In so many ways. Maybe others dont and that is fine, but I Just wanted to voice my opinion.


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## vix (Dec 18, 2005)

Instead of arguing with each other, is there no practical help you can give this guy.

He's living in his car, he has no money so he can't be eating well, keeping his self clean and healthy etc.

I don't live in the US so I don't know how the system works over there, but surely you guys do or can atleast find out.

Practical help is what is needed, is there no-one who lives close by to give some support.

For what ever reasons WFS has got into this situation I don't know, I haven't read his earlier posts.

A good meal a bath and clean clothes with a warm bed to sleep in does wonders in helping a person to think straight about their next move.

So if any of you care that much, atleast help him to find the information needed to accomplish these basic needs, or offer a bed for a night or two.

I send my prayers too.

I hope you find your ladder WFS.


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## fred_elliot (Dec 18, 2005)

I don't class a college kid who talked about going to study a masters degree in Oxford (England) and temporarily without accommodation (until he goes back to hall after xmas) as 'homeless'. Sell your car???

Anyone who has ever worked with charities such as 'Shelter' (in the UK) knows there is 'homeless' and HOMELESS with NO MONEY, NO HOPE, NO FAMILY, NO ONE CARES etc etc

He may have lots of other problems - and I feel for the guy... 


.


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