# Why is there so much hatred of fat people?



## KittyKitten (Jul 8, 2010)

There are so many fatphobic comments everywhere you go. For example, watching an old video of a popular dancing show on Youtube and so much of the comments were saying how 'thin' the people were back then and that were no 'fatties'. Why is there such an intense hatred of fat people from many folks? These people act like fat people killed their cat!


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## Jes (Jul 9, 2010)

Why am I just now hearing about this?


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## Blackjack (Jul 9, 2010)

What's fat people?


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## Dromond (Jul 9, 2010)

happyface83 said:


> There are so many fatphobic comments everywhere you go. For example, watching an old video of a popular dancing show on Youtube and so much of the comments were saying how 'thin' the people were back then and that were no 'fatties'. Why is there such an intense hatred of fat people from many folks? These people act like fat people killed their cat!



Largely because the mouth breathers who inhabit the Internet can't say such things in public for fear of getting their asses kicked, so they vent their infantile spew online.


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## OhLaLaSoSexy (Jul 9, 2010)

Dromond said:


> Largely because the mouth breathers who inhabit the Internet can't say such things in public for fear of getting their asses kicked, so they vent their infantile spew online.



I agree with this!


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## TraciJo67 (Jul 9, 2010)

Fat people did kill my cat.


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## Paquito (Jul 9, 2010)

Was the fat acceptance movement just divided by zero?


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## exile in thighville (Jul 9, 2010)

probably because of their posts


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## NYCGabriel (Jul 9, 2010)

They eat awesome food.


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## NYCGabriel (Jul 9, 2010)

happyface83 said:


> There are so many fatphobic comments everywhere you go. For example, watching an old video of a popular dancing show on Youtube and so much of the comments were saying how 'thin' the people were back then and that were no 'fatties'. Why is there such an intense hatred of fat people from many folks? These people act like fat people killed their cat!



:doh:


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## Dromond (Jul 9, 2010)

Paquito said:


> Was the fat acceptance movement just divided by zero?



Sorry, my fault.


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## jenboo (Jul 9, 2010)

happyface83 said:


> There are so many fatphobic comments everywhere you go. For example, watching an old video of a popular dancing show on Youtube and so much of the comments were saying how 'thin' the people were back then and that were no 'fatties'. Why is there such an intense hatred of fat people from many folks? These people act like fat people killed their cat!



I wonder why so many fat people hate on other fat people, especially fat women who smack down other fat women? I think that fat women are generally more horrible to other fat women then thin women are to any type of woman. Does that make sense?


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## NYCGabriel (Jul 9, 2010)

Dromond said:


> Sorry, my fault.



LOL LOL LOL! my mantra is divide by zero!!!


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## IrishBard (Jul 9, 2010)

killing cats are reserved just for fat people?!!!

oh well, there's always puppy kicking and seal clubbing.


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## Dibaby35 (Jul 9, 2010)

jenboo said:


> I wonder why so many fat people hate on other fat people, especially fat women who smack down other fat women? I think that fat women are generally more horrible to other fat women then thin women are to any type of woman. Does that make sense?



Women are horrible to each other in general..fat or skinny. It starts early as I'm watching my daughter at 9 already competing with the other girls and watching the cat fights between them. I blame you men for doing this to us. Yeah I said it. lol. The only women that get disrespect from me are the ones that don't respect themselves to begin with and make all the rest of us women look bad.


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## Adamantoise (Jul 9, 2010)

happyface83 said:


> There are so many fatphobic comments everywhere you go. For example, watching an old video of a popular dancing show on Youtube and so much of the comments were saying how 'thin' the people were back then and that were no 'fatties'. Why is there such an intense hatred of fat people from many folks? These people act like fat people killed their cat!



People will hate what they're told to hate. Majority of youtube comments are crude for the sake of being crude,and,refering back to an earlier post by Dromond,they enjoy the anonymity of the 'interwebs'. They don't fear backlash. Fat hate is the flavour of the month. These are just a few thoughts of mine,I apologise if they seem a bit disjointed.


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## Dibaby35 (Jul 9, 2010)

Seriously they make the comments so they feel better about themselves. That's all that's about.


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## Lovelyone (Jul 10, 2010)

one word...insecurity.


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## bmann0413 (Jul 10, 2010)

Dromond said:


> Largely because the mouth breathers who inhabit the Internet can't say such things in public for fear of getting their asses kicked, so they vent their infantile spew online.



Yup, that's basically the gist of it. :doh:


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## mercy (Jul 10, 2010)

You know what I think the reason is for all the fat hatred? I think a lot of people derive their own self-esteem from comparing themselves to other people. Feeling bad about others helps people feel good about themselves.


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## diggers1917 (Jul 11, 2010)

This, from Doctor Who himself  :



> You are different from them, and people are afraid of anything different. And what people are afraid of, they try to destroy



...Or lacking the capacity for that last bit, act like dicks as next best thing.


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## wtchmel (Jul 11, 2010)

Fat People are one of societies last group of people where it's stil 'ok' to bag, rip, joke etc. on. Most of our society realizes it's not ok to do that to people of color, gays,handicap,women, etc. (even though it may still happen) Fat is the last hold out for this shit. It bugs.
'


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## jenboo (Jul 12, 2010)

wtchmel said:


> Fat People are one of societies last group of people where it's stil 'ok' to bag, rip, joke etc. on. Most of our society realizes it's not ok to do that to people of color, gays,handicap,women, etc. (even though it may still happen) Fat is the last hold out for this shit. It bugs.
> '



I dont really agree. I think that hate is still very present no matter what the minority group, it is just the way it is presented. People can hate fat people out loud and have the world agree, but if someone like "Kramer" says a hate word, millions will yell at him, but my guess is that there are just as many who are cheering him on, they just do it more quietly because it would be socially unacceptable.


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## EtobicokeFA (Jul 12, 2010)

jenboo said:


> I dont really agree. I think that hate is still very present no matter what the minority group, it is just the way it is presented. People can hate fat people out loud and have the world agree, but if someone like "Kramer" says a hate word, millions will yell at him, but my guess is that there are just as many who are cheering him on, they just do it more quietly because it would be socially unacceptable.



I don't think it's that either. Unlike being people of color, gays,handicap,women, and etc, the world view is that people are fat because of our own doing. Plus the fact that most of the world still thinks the being fat is automatic death sentence. So the world believes the misconception that fat people putting their lives in danger out of ignorance and lack of self-control, and that is where the hatred comes from.


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## EtobicokeFA (Jul 12, 2010)

jenboo said:


> I dont really agree. I think that hate is still very present no matter what the minority group, it is just the way it is presented. People can hate fat people out loud and have the world agree, but if someone like "Kramer" says a hate word, millions will yell at him, but my guess is that there are just as many who are cheering him on, they just do it more quietly because it would be socially unacceptable.



Sorry double post. Moderator can delete this!


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## rellis10 (Jul 12, 2010)

happyface83 said:


> There are so many fatphobic comments everywhere you go. For example, watching an old video of a popular dancing show on Youtube and so much of the comments were saying how 'thin' the people were back then and that were no 'fatties'. Why is there such an intense hatred of fat people from many folks? These people act like fat people killed their cat!



They do it to divide and conquer us. Because if everyone in the Fat Community joined together NOTHING could stop us! MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Ahem....sorry, dont know what came over me


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## calauria (Jul 12, 2010)

I remember in my sociology class my dumb instructor making a statement that fat people seem to be less educated. And he was also showing us some statistics where overweight teenagers seemed to get into less trouble than average sized teens. He stated, though he said he would be careful while making this assumption, it is because fat kids, probably didn't have friends to get in trouble with.

And.....one classmate who used to be overweight, but lost a lot weight did a presentation about the tragedy of being overweight, but I see that he has gained a lot of weight back.


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## superodalisque (Jul 12, 2010)

i've been thinking about this for a long time. beyond the prejudiced people and haters i think it is us. i think as a group fat people have bought into the fat hatred to a large extent. we don't fight very hard as a group against it. we aren't very politically active. a lot of fat people don't want to identify with other fat people. its hard to get fat people together to do anything thats going to benefit them. there has never been a powerful anti fat discrimination group when you compare to to other civil rights groups. in the groups we do have the message has been watered down by having fat rights being diluted by its association with sex scenes and the need to prove ourselves beautiful when we already are. we can't even seem convince ourselves that we are truly worthwhile so why should the rest of the world think we are? things are changing a little but overall while fat people still hate their own bodies and agree to any extent that they are unattractive we'll see more of the same. its not the public we have to change. its each other.


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## calauria (Jul 12, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i've been thinking about this for a long time. beyond the prejudiced people and haters i think it is us. i think as a group fat people have bought into the fat hatred to a large extent. we don't fight very hard as a group against it. we aren't very politically active. a lot of fat people don't want to identify with other fat people. its hard to get fat people together to do anything thats going to benefit them. there has never been a powerful anti fat discrimination group when you compare to to other civil rights groups. in the groups we do have the message has been watered down by having fat rights being diluted by its association with sex scenes and the need to prove ourselves beautiful when we already are. we can't even seem convince ourselves that we are truly worthwhile so why should the rest of the world think we are? things are changing a little but overall while fat people still hate their own bodies and agree to any extent that they are unattractive we'll see more of the same. its not the public we have to change. its each other.



Darn it!! Can't rep. you!!


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## bigmac (Jul 15, 2010)

calauria said:


> I remember in my sociology class my dumb instructor making a statement that fat people seem to be less educated. And he was also showing us some statistics where overweight teenagers seemed to get into less trouble than average sized teens. He stated, though he said he would be careful while making this assumption, it is because fat kids, probably didn't have friends to get in trouble with.



Don't bash on your instructor too much. I've noticed both these things too. It does appear that fat people are underrepresented in higher education (not absent just not as many as you would statistically expect given their prevalence in the population as a whole). There was a thread about this some time ago. Regarding fat teens getting in trouble -- I've never seen any studies but I can tell you that, at least in Fresno, fat people are underrepresented in criminal court. Fresno has a very high obesity rate -- go to the mall and you'll see fat young people all over the place. Go to the court house, however, and most of the young guys in red jumpsuits are thin (and shorter than average too).


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## Dibaby35 (Jul 15, 2010)

bigmac said:


> Go to the court house, however, and most of the young guys in red jumpsuits are thin (and shorter than average too).



Yeah i've noticed this as well at the court house. My assumption is that most of them are this way because of drugs and alcohol. Maybe I'm wrong here. *shrugs*


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## calauria (Jul 15, 2010)

As for woman, honestly ladies, I think a lot of slim women are jealous that a lot of us are fat, enjoy a good meal AND look fine as hell. They don't believe they would be able to pull that off, as well. So, they are PISSED!!!!!


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## Ruffie (Jul 16, 2010)

calauria said:


> As for woman, honestly ladies, I think a lot of slim women are jealous that a lot of us are fat, enjoy a good meal AND look fine as hell. They don't believe they would be able to pull that off, as well. So, they are PISSED!!!!!



Oh so true. Many ladies who are the shallow "beautiful"ones really hate it when we get attention from men that they feel THEY should get.


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## Jes (Jul 16, 2010)

EtobicokeFA said:


> the world view is that people are fat because of our own doing. Plus the fact that most of the world still thinks the being fat is automatic death sentence. .



Aren't some of us? I mean, I agree with your 2nd statement above, and I certainly think that no one should face discrimination for any reason, but I do think it may be smart to be honest about personal choices and size. If some people didn't get fat b/c of their own doing, then it wouldn't be possible for anyone at Dims to be a successful gainer.


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## mercy (Jul 16, 2010)

> Aren't some of us? I mean, I agree with your 2nd statement above, and I certainly think that no one should face discrimination for any reason, but I do think it may be smart to be honest about personal choices and size. If some people didn't get fat b/c of their own doing, then it wouldn't be possible for anyone at Dims to be a successful gainer.



On this very topic I read a post last night on a gainer blog (no, I won't link, I don't want the poor guy deluged with criticism). There was an article about gaining somewhere and some fat people were upset because the link was made between gaining and the fat pride movement. 

The point the blogger was making (and I agree to some extent) is: do you accept that being fat is valid or not? And if you do, surely you accept that some people would want that for themselves and take action to make it happen? 

The bit I didn't agree with was where the blogger went on to say that surely gaining is a "more legitimate lifestyle" than getting fat by accident. As someone who's gone the latter route, I could probably do without having lost my sense of control over my weight and all the self-loathing that went with that initially. But that doesn't mean I'll always feel that way. I don't think it's helpful for fat people to be saying "my version of being fat is the true version and yours isn't as valid."

One thing I think sets the fat pride movement back is the denial that some members seem to have about the link between obesity and ill health. Yes, there's a lot of scaremongering about, and yes there's a lot of prejudice mixed in with some of the research that's done. But denying that being overweight is unhealthy just makes us look like nutcases. Anyone who's ever been puffed out after climbing the stairs knows that there's a link between obesity and ill health.


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## joswitch (Jul 16, 2010)

mercy said:


> On this very topic I read a post last night on a gainer blog (no, I won't link, I don't want the poor guy deluged with criticism). There was an article about gaining somewhere and some fat people were upset because the link was made between gaining and the fat pride movement.
> 
> The point the blogger was making (and I agree to some extent) is: do you accept that being fat is valid or not? And if you do, surely you accept that some people would want that for themselves and take action to make it happen?
> 
> ...



Denying all the research that shows SOME people are fat and healthy, and that there are ways for big people to be big and healthIER is also nuts... But, cos that brand of being nuts runs with social prejudice it is not labelled as such...

Newsflash: there are lots of thin people who are unhealthy too. Genetically thin, sedentary, smoking, junk eating person is probably less healthy than genetically fat, active, non-smoking person. You cannot tell who is, or is NOT, healthy just by LOOKING at them.

The persistence of "diagnoses by body size" damages everyones health, fat and thin and otherwise.


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## Dromond (Jul 16, 2010)

The point is not that thin people can be unhealthy. We're not talking about thin people. The point is denying that obesity can cause health problems, sometimes life threatening, is nuts. Also, some of us became fat by our own device. I'd venture to say most of us. Health problems that cause weight gain aren't common enough to explain the preponderance of ponderous people. Most of us, in one way or another, did it to ourselves.


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## joswitch (Jul 16, 2010)

Dromond said:


> The point is not that thin people can be unhealthy. We're not talking about thin people.


We should. You can't determine that X even correlates (never mind causes!) with Y unless we have a control group that does not have X.


> The point is denying that obesity can cause health problems, sometimes life threatening, is nuts.


Ugh.
No-one is denying "can" or "maybe".

My point is that EVERY time anyone points out the complexities of health, and actual real world data and examples of healthy and healthier fat folks, (I know a number who have no problem with stairs, or rugby, or martial arts) then the cry goes up "nutcase!"... And none of the people shouting that care to look at the actual evidence.

"Obesity" is a faux medicalisation of a range of body sizes so great as to be scientifically useless as a defined category.
And if you bother to dig deep into the actual reserach, (not soundbite News, TV, magazines) you will find that your statement should be revised to read:
MAY be CORRELATED with certain health problems in SOME people.
(diabetes 2 has strongest correlation, not perfect tho' COS THIN PEOPLE GET IT TOO! Nor is it the only "group" correlation)
Correlation does not necessarily = causation!


> Also, some of us became fat by our own device.


 by all means speak for yourself / your own experience, that's fine. Remember your sample size = 1. Other people do not necessarily = you.


> I'd venture to say most of us. Health problems that cause weight gain aren't common enough to explain the preponderance of ponderous people. Most of us, in one way or another, did it to ourselves.


 When you make wild generalisations like these, if you can't back them up with research data, your assertions can be dismissed out of hand. Your second assertion particularly is waaaaay off...
Birth control, PCOS, stress, depression, SAD, sleep deprivation.... All common as hell, all associated with weight gain...

All of this irrelevant to OP.
Hatred not justified whatever cause of fatness.
Fat people still people same as anyone else.


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## Jes (Jul 16, 2010)

joswitch said:


> Newsflash: there are lots of thin people who are unhealthy too. .



I'm not talking about that. I doubt Mercy is either. I'm not sure deflecting this topic that way helps at all. It's not a newsflash that apples aren't oranges, either. Of course not all thin people are healthy, but that's not what my post is getting at.


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## bigmac (Jul 16, 2010)

Dromond said:


> The point is not that thin people can be unhealthy. We're not talking about thin people. The point is denying that obesity can cause health problems, sometimes life threatening, is nuts. Also, some of us became fat by our own device. I'd venture to say most of us. Health problems that cause weight gain aren't common enough to explain the preponderance of ponderous people. *Most of us, in one way or another, did it to ourselves.*



This brings up the interesting distinction between proximate cause and ultimate cause. There's no doubt you're right when you say that most of us fat folks did it to ourselves in that we ate more calories than we burned. However, I think the more interesting question is why did we do so? And I don't think there is one answer to this question. Some people eat to satisfy emotional needs -- in effect they are self medicating not unlike many drug addicts. Some fat people don't eat that much but are very good at avoiding exertion. Some fat people overeat during pleasurable social occasions (they eat when they feel good as opposed to people who eat to feel better). Some people seem to programed to be hungry ... I'm sure this list could go on.

As an example my wife ate herself up to over 500lbs because she was lonely and food made her feel better. She lost 90lbs in the first six months after we met. Saying my wife ate herself fat is true (the proximate cause) -- but the reason she did it (the ultimate cause) is more revealing.

As for myself I overeat during pleasurable occasions. So as my wife was loosing I gained 50lbs.


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## KHayes666 (Jul 16, 2010)

On New Years, I was walking with my g/f, her friend and a mutual friend. We walked by X person and Y person....the mutual friend shook both their hands and said good to see you. As soon as X and Y were out of hearing range the girl turned to my g/f's friend and said "If I get fat like that, kill me"

Last saturday night I was in a hotel room and I had to use the bathroom. While I was in there a bunch of people I couldn't recognize were talking about how fat and ugly some of the people were. One girl said "Did you see that fat cow with the ass the size of my house? Good god" They all left before I had a chance to identify them when I got out

Once I was outside where the people smoke and one woman who I haven't seen since said "I can't believe how fat (name) got, she looks terrible."



So where was I that had all this fat hatred? None other than BBW Dances. I've heard more fat hatred, trash talk and bigotry at fat friendly events than I've seen in the real world recently.

So how do we try to convince the outside world that fat is ok when the inside world is just as cruel?


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## joswitch (Jul 16, 2010)

bigmac said:


> This brings up the interesting distinction between proximate cause and ultimate cause. There's no doubt you're right when you say that most of us fat folks did it to ourselves in that we ate more calories than we burned. However, I think the more interesting question is why did we do so? And I don't think there is one answer to this question. Some people eat to satisfy emotional needs -- in effect they are self medicating not unlike many drug addicts. Some fat people don't eat that much but are very good at avoiding exertion. Some fat people overeat during pleasurable social occasions (they eat when they feel good as opposed to people who eat to feel better). Some people seem to programed to be hungry ... I'm sure this list could go on.
> 
> As an example my wife ate herself up to over 500lbs because she was lonely and food made her feel better. She lost 90lbs in the first six months after we met. Saying my wife ate herself fat is true (the proximate cause) -- but the reason she did it (the ultimate cause) is more revealing.
> 
> As for myself I overeat during pleasurable occasions. So as my wife was loosing I gained 50lbs.



Re: your first paragraph - some research indicates some aspects of appetite* and activity levels are under involuntary control... Sometimes, rarely, the act of eating itself may be involuntary (e.g. sleep eating).... 

*e.g. if food available is low in nutritional density (e.g. Mucho carbs, little else) most people's appetite program will keep pushing "eat more" in the scramble for macro and micro nutrients, even if plenty calories already taken in....


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## superodalisque (Jul 16, 2010)

Jes said:


> I'm not talking about that. I doubt Mercy is either. I'm not sure deflecting this topic that way helps at all. It's not a newsflash that apples aren't oranges, either. Of course not all thin people are healthy, but that's not what my post is getting at.



yes, i think maybe your point was missed too. as long as fat people are making excuses about why they are fat and what they eat there will be a problem. the excuses just show the shame people feel over their size. its the same shame i was talking about earlier over not being like everyone else and always comparing. if you love yourself there is no reason to compare. as a fat people we do eat a lot. if some fat people were as they are here in public re: their eating , by that i mean shameless, maybe a lot more people would find it easier to accept us because it would show we had already accepted ourselves just as we are. and truthfully, no one no matter what health issues they have can get fat on air. you might get a bit fatter if you do but it certainly does not account for an entire 400 or 500lbs. so we are responsible for our own weight. running from that fact is also another reason some people hold us in contempt--because we act as though we aren't responsible for what we have become.


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## Dromond (Jul 16, 2010)

SuperO's post should end the thread, as she's right on target.

Joswitch: stress, depression, SAD, sleep deprivation, and other psychological issues _do not cause weight gain_. It's a person's reaction to such that can cause weight gain. If a person self medicates with food, it is their choice to do so and therefore _they are responsible._


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## joswitch (Jul 16, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> yes, i think maybe your point was missed too. as long as fat people are making excuses about why they are fat and what they eat there will be a problem. the excuses just show the shame people feel over their size. *its the same shame i was talking about earlier over not being like everyone else and always comparing. if you love yourself there is no reason to compare*. as a fat people we do eat a lot. if some fat people were as they are here in public re: their eating , by that i mean shameless, maybe a lot more people would find it easier to accept us because it would show we had already accepted ourselves just as we are. and truthfully, no one no matter what health issues they have can get fat on air. you might get a bit fatter if you do but i*t certainly does not account for an entire 400 or 500lbs.* so we are responsible for our own weight. running from that fact is also another reason some people hold us in contempt--because we act as though we aren't responsible for what we have become.



I agree wholeheartedly with your stance re. shaming.


Ok, this next bit is not to diminish the experience of anyone supersized, in any way....

^you don't have to be 4 or 500lbs to be considered fat by society or experience discrimination / prejudice... Although of course much bigger people are likely to get it much worse...
Here in the UK, society's idea of "fat" starts a LOT lower (coinciding largely with those official BMI tables, so hyped by the Gov't & media, pretty much...)

I was chatting away to an ex-gf of mine the other day....
She used to be "chubby" back when we briefly dated (maybe 140 or 150lbs at about 5')... She's dropped about 20 or 30lbs, and would now be considered "curvy" or normal by society at large
She was complaining about her bloody doctor...

Back when she was biggER whenever she went to the doctor for entirely unrelated issues - flu for instance, indeed ANYthing... the doctor would say "just lose weight"...
...sound familiar??

The last couple of years she had been feeling down, low energy and bleagh and bloated, and felt that her *birth control pill*, that she had been on for TEN years was likely to blame... she wanted to come off it, but her doctor insisted she stay on it....
She discussed it with another health professional, who advised her otherwise..
So she dropped the birth control pill...
And within months felt back to her old high energy, high activity self, and she was cycling about all over the place... 
= weight loss... 

Apparently weight gain IS a COMMON side effect of the pill... And -
"More than 200 million women worldwide have used the pill since its approval by the Food and Drugs Administration (FDA)" 50 years ago...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/sarah-boseley-global-health/2010/may/06/pregnancy-maternal-mortality


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## superodalisque (Jul 16, 2010)

joswitch said:


> I agree wholeheartedly with your stance re. shaming.
> 
> 
> Ok, this next bit is not to diminish the experience of anyone supersized, in any way....
> ...



this just underscores what i was saying. its easier for docs to think we are just over eating as well. most people do lie about how much they eat because they are ashamed. docs do see that a lot. its not all fat hate driving that. so maybe if we were all more honest about what we ate in the first place docs wouldn't be of the impression that we are fatter because we eat and just don't want to admit it. 

in the long run it helps everyone if we are more honest. then when people do have seriously unintentional weight gain docs might be more likely to believe them. i've seen the plates of lots of women i know who are my size and larger and they clearly eat much more than they often claim they do. thats how i realized i must have a thyroid problem. i compared the amount other people ate to what i ate and i knew i had another issue and finally went to the doc to get checked after all of these years. sure enough i had one. i lost some weight by having it attended to --but guess what? i'm still fat and i still like food and i eat more than i expend energy. it does not shame me to say so to anybody. and, as far as i know women who are just puffy from the pill don't have the same human rights issues of women who are genuinely fat so thats a moot comparison.


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## CPProp (Jul 16, 2010)

happyface83 said:


> There are so many fatphobic comments everywhere you go. For example, watching an old video of a popular dancing show on Youtube and so much of the comments were saying how 'thin' the people were back then and that were no 'fatties'. Why is there such an intense hatred of fat people from many folks? These people act like fat people killed their cat!



I had my own pet theory for quite sometime, its hatred born of jealousy  if some one has something you like but could never have, there is a tendency to decry it then eventually hate it. Same with fat people  the thin one are envious or jealous that they cant do or be or eat what they want etc etc, when in reality they want to do the same, but have a stronger erg to conform and not the strength of character to change, so they belittle and then hate and all because the outside world says you must conform - not quite sure to what - but perhaps thats another post. Maybe they need pitying for being so weak willed ??....I don't know.

I could be a million mile away from the truth, but it seems to fit for me, particularly when you drill down into their reasons with them, as I have done a few time, although not enough of them to write a thesis on lol..


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## joswitch (Jul 16, 2010)

Dromond said:


> SuperO's post should end the thread, as she's right on target.
> 
> Joswitch: stress, depression, SAD, sleep deprivation, and other psychological issues _do not cause weight gain_. *It's a person's reaction to such that can cause weight gain.* If a person self medicates with food, it is their choice to do so and therefore _they are responsible._



Actually the stressed person need not have ANY behavioural change and may still get fat!

Even if the ONLY thing that changed in a person's life (food intake and exercise remaining the same) but their stress levels rose - this will in *increase their cortisol (C)* level and* lower the (anabolic) testosterone(T)* *in their bloodstream - which skews the body's *physiological* balance away from muscle building/repair (and muscle tissue BURNS energy, even at rest) to fat storage (and fat tissue requires very little energy input to maintain, once built)...
Further, if that stress was coupled with sleep deprivation - that would further raise C and lower T.

So imagine typical Jo or Joanne Bloggs.
They eat the same.
They exercise the same.
But their job suddenly gets stressful.
(C up, T down... muscle wastage begins, more fat stored)
They are worried and struggle to get enough sleep.
(C further up, T further down... they continue to get softer and weaker)
After a number of weeks or months (depending on individual) they will have lost a significant % of their original muscle base... and they may find that they have gained enough fat tissue, that (even given their muscle loss), their overall weight begins to increase - 
Even with the same input of food and while taking the same exercise... 
They may get depressed and stressed about this...

Stress / sleep loss = C up, T down = softer, weaker, fatter = more stress etc.
- It's a feedback cycle! 
Feedback cycles are common in biology - as a scientist you learn to look out for them....

Now, how many folks do you know who have a stressy, not enough sleep lifestyle?


Of course - your original point about stress induced and/or emotional eating has validity, BUT not everyone does this... Some people STOP eating when stressed... (these peeps will lose muscle mass even quicker, so they will get softer and weaker while getting thinner, but if they later recover their appetite - they'll get fatter faster... if they go back to eating their previously "normal" amount of food)... 

Your point about "responsibility" is arguable though... Appetite, like breathing sleeping and f*cking is only partially under conscious control... If humans weren't programmed to breath, eat, sleep and f*ck on a VERY fundamental level the human race would've gone extinct millennia ago... "Will power" is not as significant as people like to think...


(*Yes, women have testosterone too. At lower levels than men, but it's still a vital hormone)


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## superodalisque (Jul 16, 2010)

joswitch said:


> Wrong^ (at least in part)
> 
> Even if the ONLY thing that changed in a person's life (food intake and exercise remaining the same) but their stress levels rose - this will in *increase their cortisol (C)* level and* lower the (anabolic) testosterone(T)* *in their bloodstream - which skews the body's *physiological* balance away from muscle building/repair (and muscle tissue BURNS energy, even at rest) to fat storage (and fat tissue requires very little energy input to maintain, once built)...
> Further, if that stress was coupled with sleep deprivation - that would further raise C and lower T.
> ...



why is there such a problem with fat people just being... fat? should it really matter how they got there from a human rights stance? why is an excuse so necessary? whats so wrong with it?


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## superodalisque (Jul 16, 2010)

CPProp said:


> I had my own pet theory for quite sometime, its hatred born of jealousy  if some one has something you like but could never have, there is a tendency to decry it then eventually hate it. Same with fat people  the thin one are envious or jealous that they cant do or be or eat what they want etc etc, when in reality they want to do the same, but have a stronger erg to conform and not the strength of character to change, so they belittle and then hate and all because the outside world says you must conform - not quite sure to what - but perhaps thats another post. Maybe they need pitying for being so weak willed ??....I don't know.
> 
> I could be a million mile away from the truth, but it seems to fit for me, particularly when you drill down into their reasons with them, as I have done a few time, although not enough of them to write a thesis on lol..



interesting to think upon


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## joswitch (Jul 16, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> this just underscores what i was saying. its easier for docs to think we are just over eating as well. most people do lie about how much they eat because they are ashamed. docs do see that a lot. its not all fat hate driving that. so maybe if we were all more honest about what we ate in the first place docs wouldn't be of the impression that we are fatter because we eat and just don't want to admit it.
> 
> in the long run it helps everyone if we are more honest. then when people do have seriously unintentional weight gain docs might be more likely to believe them.



Possibly. Either way, honesty = good. So = 



> i've seen the plates of lots of women i know who are my size and larger and they clearly eat much more than they often claim they do. thats how i realized i must have a thyroid problem. i compared the amount other people ate to what i ate and i knew i had another issue and finally went to the doc to get checked after all of these years. sure enough i had one. i lost some weight by having it attended to --but guess what? i'm still fat and i still like food and i eat more than i expend energy. it does not shame me to say so to anybody. and, as far as i know women who are just puffy from the pill don't have the same human rights issues of women who are genuinely fat so thats a moot comparison.



I never said chubby women suffer the SAME level of discrimination/prejudice as supersized women (in fact I went out of my way to flag that up in previous post), but certainly many do experience and feel the same / similar / related issues. Not of the same magnitude - true, but of the same ilk - for sure.
Stand united or fall divided, surely?


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## joswitch (Jul 16, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> why is there such a problem with fat people just being... fat?



No problem with that.
I have a problem with people oversimplifying mechanisms, especially when they use those oversimplifications to apportion.... whatever it is they are looking to pin on whoever, whenever.
It irks me.



> should it really matter how they got there from a human rights stance? why is an excuse so necessary?



^It doesn't matter from a human rights stance.
(I said this already in an earlier post)
No excuse is necessary.
There is nothing wrong with it.


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## Weirdo890 (Jul 16, 2010)

As I've always said, I think it has to do with the fact that we humans have an ego problem. Deep down, we know that we are small, insignificant creatures. Thus, we put down others to make ourselves feel better. That's the conclusion I've come to.


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## Jes (Jul 17, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> why is there such a problem with fat people just being... fat? should it really matter how they got there from a human rights stance? why is an excuse so necessary? whats so wrong with it?



I'm going to address your questions, and not point at anyone else here, but I do sometimes wonder if the people who are dancing on the head of a pin, but not fat themselves, want to see fat as a condition that just happens or can't be helped. Perhaps it's easier to enjoy fat, or to want/be happy that a partner is fat if responsibility (fat person's OR fat person's admirer) is taken out of the equation. Thoughts?


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## joswitch (Jul 17, 2010)

Jes said:


> I'm going to address your questions, and not point at anyone else here, but I do sometimes wonder if the people who are dancing on the head of a pin, but not fat themselves, want to see fat as a condition that just happens or can't be helped. Perhaps it's easier to enjoy fat, or to want/be happy that a partner is fat if responsibility (fat person's OR fat person's admirer) is taken out of the equation. Thoughts?



:doh:
Or perhaps there really is strong evidence that variation in size, shape, and composistion of humans has various causes* - and is way more complex than the one convenient, pat, easy answer that has dogged society's understanding since the ancient Greeks.

Which is not to deny the popular, simplistic mechanism > getting fat, does work for some people, some of the time.
:sighs a weary sigh:

(*some = ill health and some = good health and others = neutral)


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## bigmac (Jul 17, 2010)

Dromond said:


> SuperO's post should end the thread, as she's right on target.
> 
> Joswitch: stress, depression, SAD, sleep deprivation, and other psychological issues _do not cause weight gain_. It's a person's reaction to such that can cause weight gain. *If a person self medicates with food, it is their choice to do so and therefore they are responsible.*



Dromond, I seem to agree with you on most things but on this I disagree. The subconscious brain and the endocrine system control hunger, activity levels, resting metabolism. We have only the most basic understanding of these regulatory systems. Much is still unknown or disputed (e.g. the low fat vs. low carb debate). To say that a fat person is personally responsible for being fat because he "chose" to eat too much is like telling a minimum wage worker he's poor because he "chose" not to go to medical school.

Also, many people (my self included) have been fat since childhood. Are we to hold toddlers responsible too? Is a fat adult who has maintained his level of fatness since childhood just as responsible as a formerly thin person who gains as an adult? Do we even want to get into such distinctions? I don't.


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## Sensualbbwcurves (Jul 19, 2010)

jenboo said:


> I wonder why so many fat people hate on other fat people, especially fat women who smack down other fat women? I think that fat women are generally more horrible to other fat women then thin women are to any type of woman. Does that make sense?



YES YES and again YES and I totally agree! I have exeprienced this myself and it has been @ the BBW dances. One would think an event that we all come together just to have fun would be a better enviorment and that is not always teh case. I've been looked @ so nasty that is looks could kill, I would be dead. The women have snickered @ what I have been wearing that night! It can be even more harder to deal with coming from your "own". I am far from that way! I love to see big women doing their sexy thing! If they are wearing something I personally would not have the heart to wear I compliment them! I applaud women who can bring their sexy in their own body and not care about what anyone thinks.


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## HayleeRose (Jul 20, 2010)

i notice that when girls fight with eachother they play on the "emotion" factor and that immediatly goes to calling the other fat, and a lot of the time the person isnt actually fat.. I dont understand why that is everyones go to punch at someone, like thats the worst thing to call someone or something...


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## Dibaby35 (Jul 20, 2010)

HayleeRose said:


> i notice that when girls fight with eachother they play on the "emotion" factor and that immediatly goes to calling the other fat, and a lot of the time the person isnt actually fat.. I dont understand why that is everyones go to punch at someone, like thats the worst thing to call someone or something...



I call it playing the "fat card". It's easy to resolve when you just say "yep I'm fat...can you do better than that?" but then I usually throw in that "at least I'm sexy fat" LOL :happy: Well they started it!


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## superodalisque (Jul 21, 2010)

joswitch said:


> :doh:
> Or perhaps there really is strong evidence that variation in size, shape, and composistion of humans has various causes* - and is way more complex than the one convenient, pat, easy answer that has dogged society's understanding since the ancient Greeks.
> 
> Which is not to deny the popular, simplistic mechanism > getting fat, does work for some people, some of the time.
> ...



maybe you really should try and think about relaxing when it comes to the excuses about being fat. a lot of us are really okay with being fat no matter how we got there or are trying to be. it really is okay.


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## superodalisque (Jul 21, 2010)

Jes said:


> I'm going to address your questions, and not point at anyone else here, but I do sometimes wonder if the people who are dancing on the head of a pin, but not fat themselves, want to see fat as a condition that just happens or can't be helped. Perhaps it's easier to enjoy fat, or to want/be happy that a partner is fat if responsibility (fat person's OR fat person's admirer) is taken out of the equation. Thoughts?



thats a good point. maybe there is a bit of guilt alleviation attached to some of that.


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## joswitch (Jul 21, 2010)

@SuperO - you missed my point, again... Oh well, you're clearly only ever going to see what you want/expect to see - in your case "guilty"FAs everywhere (like that's not insulting at all! /sarcasm) - obviously nothing I say can possibly change that set-in-stone POV you have... Carry on...


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## superodalisque (Jul 21, 2010)

joswitch said:


> @SuperO - you missed my point, again... Oh well, you're clearly only ever going to see what you want/expect to see - in your case "guilty"FAs everywhere (like that's not insulting at all! /sarcasm) - obviously nothing I say can possibly change that set-in-stone POV you have... Carry on...



who said anything about GUILTY FAs EVERYWHERE? thats nowhere in my post but in yours. i said that guilt might factor into it. i just wonder why you have such a problem with us just being fat? that idea of a sickly fat person is also a media stereotype. you know there are a lot of us who actually have no health problems. besides that, this isn't a thread about why fat people are fat? its about why fat people are hated. no one on the outside of it cares why. they don't walk up to you and take a medical history. all they do is look. so for a fat person out there living it doesn't often matter why. its the the results of actually BEING fat that they have to be concerned with when they have to live in the world.

besides that i'm tired of always having to worry about whether FAs are being insulted when we're trying to fish out exactly why fat people are being insulted. its not always about FAs. the way a lot of people here talk FAs are so delicate that if you say one thing that they interpret as remotely negative they might disappear in a puff of smoke. i think some of you guys need to stop being so childish and paranoid. its time to grow up and think about someone else for a change. this is a multi sided conversation. i don't have to change my opinion and you don't have to change yours and neither does anyone else. you should be ok with that discussion. i am.


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## joswitch (Jul 21, 2010)

@superO - *sigh* have fun kicking the crap out of that straw man you just built there...


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## paintsplotch (Jul 21, 2010)

even here people bring up the "why" factor.

to me its a moot point. who gives a fuck how or why a person is fat. it could be many factors.... but why does it matter? why do we always need to validate? why cant people JUST BE PEOPLE?

there are thin people that cant gain.... fat people who cant lose... thin people who like being thin.... fat people who like being fat. there are ssbbws and bbws.... thin, thick, average, super sized, overweight, obese, fat, chunkie, curvey and everything in between.... we are PEOPLE. it is what it is... 

the question is why is there so much hatred of fat people.

there can also be something positive..... being fat crosses all colors, races, religions, etc...... and most of us identify with eachother.

in the end...... none of us are out of the woods..... its still pc to poke fun at fat... its accepted more than any other kind of hatred.... 

hell, my own parents taught me to hate my body because i was not thin like my sister...... 
and now i am watching my niece who is 7 learning that fat is not where its at.
she was born chunkie and its just who she is.

personally...... i think the issue is why cant people teach children that all people are beautiful? period end of story.

off my soap box... sorry..


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## paintsplotch (Jul 21, 2010)

oh and one more thing........ my dog lucky doesnt care that im fat.... he just thinks "ooooh squishy hugs! gimme more!"

people need to be more like dogs..... they just love you. i do my best to be like that too....... im not perfect and have a long way to go... but i try.


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## thirtiesgirl (Jul 22, 2010)

Women hate on/are critical of other women often due to internalized sexism. This is true for fat, thin and in-between women.

Definition: Internalized sexism is the involuntary internalization by women of the sexist messages that are present in their societies and culture. It also the way in which women reinforce sexism by utilizing and relaying sexist messages that theyve internalized.

Read more here.


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## Dromond (Jul 22, 2010)

paintsplotch said:


> personally...... i think the issue is why cant people teach children that all people are beautiful? period end of story



The answer to this question is simple. Parents raise their children in their own image. Fucked up parents try to raise fucked up children. Sometimes the children come out okay despite it all. Those are the ones that provide hope for the future.


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## Dibaby35 (Jul 22, 2010)

Dromond said:


> The answer to this question is simple. Parents raise their children in their own image. Fucked up parents try to raise fucked up children. Sometimes the children come out okay despite it all. Those are the ones that provide hope for the future.



Even with trying to drill in their heads to love yourself and love others no matter how different anyone is, our kids are still bombarded with all the negative media about being fat (or different at all) on a constant basis. So unless we just unplug the family unit from the outside world (which sure this works for a few people out there, i give u kuddos!), kids are still getting the wrong message. No matter what we do as parents. I'm not saying its a complete battle loss..but yeah. It's tough. Am I suppose to feel bad because I do encourage her to try and keep her weight under control? I would love my kid to have it easier in school then I did without having to deal with weight issues. Is that bad? On top of it all when you bring your kid to the docs and your kid is in the 90% for weight..it's all your fault of course. 

Sorry I just vented I think.

BTW just posted my kids picture on my profile since I don't have a clue how to post it in here.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jul 22, 2010)

The reason there is so much hatred of fat people is because there's an oversupply of hatred floating around like a mosquito, looking for somewhere to light. Hatred comes from anger, anger comes from fear, and many people live their entire lives in fear that they won't get enough: not enough food, not enough money, not enough respect, not enough love .... Add to this the fact that one of our central human myths -- not just in western culture, but in many others as well -- is that of the scapegoat: if something goes wrong (or you fear something will go wrong) it's because some_one_ is causing it; the only way to put things right is to find that someone and kill him (or her: cf. seventeenth-century witch trials). Isn't that basically the plot of every suspense novel or action movie: the bad guy has to die, and then everything will be all right? As many other posters have noted, during the twentieth century many traditional scapegoats were removed from consideration; but people still have fears and anxieties, and they still look for someone -- preferably someone readily identifiable at a distance by physical characteristics -- to blame for whatever is tormenting them. If every fat person on the planet woke up thin tomorrow, we might begin to read newspaper articles about the dangerous epidemic of freckles.


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## mercy (Jul 22, 2010)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> If every fat person on the planet woke up thin tomorrow, we might begin to read newspaper articles about the dangerous epidemic of freckles.



Not whilst there are ginger people to persecute.


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## Dromond (Jul 22, 2010)

The "red headed stepchild" stereotype notwithstanding, we don't really hate on red heads on our side of the pond.


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## mercy (Jul 22, 2010)

Dromond said:


> The "red headed stepchild" stereotype notwithstanding, we don't really hate on red heads on our side of the pond.



That's ok, the average Brit hates them enough for anyone. 

(Not me, by the way, I love redheads.)


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## Dromond (Jul 22, 2010)

Soooo... red/auburn hair dye is not a big seller in the Isles.


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## TraciJo67 (Jul 22, 2010)

joswitch said:


> :doh:
> Or perhaps there really is strong evidence that variation in size, shape, and composistion of humans has various causes* - and is way more complex than the one convenient, pat, easy answer that has dogged society's understanding since the ancient Greeks.
> 
> Which is not to deny the popular, simplistic mechanism > getting fat, does work for some people, some of the time.
> ...


 
Jos, I've been thinking about this response in particular for a couple of days. I'm not sure how to convey to you why it bothers me, because it's such a subtle point. Also, this is one niggling detail set aside from an otherwise long list of things that I really like about you. 

This example isn't relevant to the discussion of why people are fat, but it's the best I can do, so please bear with me. I think it's tangentially related, and I hope it serves to connect the point that I'm trying to make. 

I was adopted by my father when I was a baby. He actually met my mother when she was pregnant with me, and they married when I was 2 months old. He is the only father I've ever known. When I was growing up, my mother would ply me with messages, both subtle and overt, that he did a really wonderful, bang-up job of taking me on, and WOW how special that he never treated me as anyone other than his own. To this day, she'll make this point. Nearly 4 years ago, my husband and I adopted our son. We don't live close to my mother, so she doesn't get to see him often. She will say, as a way of expressing that she misses him, "He's my grandson just like all the others." I chafe at both comments, the second mostly because of my experience with the first: it illustrates, to me, that she does set us aside as "other". If she didn't, the point that she's trying to make would be obvious to the extent that it would never be verbalized. I don't make an issue of it because she's not a bad person. I get that it is a shortcoming on her part, and I forgive her (without needing to verbalize it; she'll never even understand that there's something to forgive). 

To the point at hand: I don't like discussing the "why" of how people get fat, because I don't think it matters. But when the discussion happens, seeing comments about genetics and poor metabolism and medical problems being attributed highlights an uncomfortably subtle point to me: That it's somehow not OK to be fat just because. Just because I like food, I eat a lot of it, and I don't like to exercise. What if that is the reason? Does that make me a bad fatty? It is part and parcel of why I don't like that we question it at all. Shouldn't it just be OK to be what we are, no explanation necessary? I've grown up learning to be extraordinarily sensitive to context, to what's hidden in the layers of what isn't being said, and that is something of a qualifier: I get that sometimes, it's just ME, and my sensitivity. But sometimes, there really is an elephant in the room 

To your credit, Jos - I think that you're getting bogged down with some nit-picking quibbles and you're reacting to that - a human response, and one that I've fallen prey to a time or three million. SuperO's point about the mechanism of shame is a really good one, though. When we fall prey to separating the GOOD fat from the BAD, it devalues everyone. Ultimately, it detracts from focusing on what should be the real point: How we get fat shouldn't be a consideration at all to our inherent value. Wouldn't it be great to arrive at a place where that's obvious ... to the extent that it need not be said at all?


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## mercy (Jul 22, 2010)

Dromond said:


> Soooo... red/auburn hair dye is not a big seller in the Isles.



Put it this way: Michael C Hall would never be a star over here. Probably the most popular redhead in Britain right now is this a member of an all-girl group. A couple of years ago, a DJ on the BBC's flagship radio station show called her "a dog" and there was no real uproar.


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## Dromond (Jul 22, 2010)

TraciJo, you just won the thread with that post.


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## Dromond (Jul 22, 2010)

mercy said:


> Put it this way: Michael C Hall would never be a star over here. Probably the most popular redhead in Britain right now is this a member of an all-girl group. A couple of years ago, a DJ on the BBC's flagship radio station show called her "a dog" and there was no real uproar.



To my American way of thinking, that's just bizarre.


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## CastingPearls (Jul 22, 2010)

Interesting fact: In some parts of Italy, red-headedness (iz that a wurd?) is considered bad luck because it's believed Judas Iscariot was a red-head. 

I wonder if there's any historical trivia/superstition like that in the UK about redheads.....


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## Dromond (Jul 22, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> Interesting fact: In some parts of Italy, red-headedness (iz that a wurd?) is considered bad luck because it's believed Judas Iscariot was a red-head.
> 
> I wonder if there's any historical trivia/superstition like that in the UK about redheads.....



My guess would be it has it's roots in Irish hate. Irish are predominantly redheads.


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## joswitch (Jul 22, 2010)

EtobicokeFA said:


> I don't think it's that either. Unlike being people of color, gays,handicap,women, and etc, the world view is that people are fat because of our own doing. Plus the fact that most of the world still thinks the being fat is automatic death sentence. So the world believes the misconception that fat people putting their lives in danger out of ignorance and lack of self-control, and that is where the hatred comes from.



Nope. That's just the bullshit justification after the fact, the hatred comes because they can get away with hating, and cos they are hateful people, they enjoy doing so. That is all.


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## joswitch (Jul 22, 2010)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> The reason there is so much hatred of fat people is because there's an oversupply of hatred floating around like a mosquito, looking for somewhere to light. Hatred comes from anger, anger comes from fear, and many people live their entire lives in fear that they won't get enough: not enough food, not enough money, not enough respect, not enough love .... Add to this the fact that one of our central human myths -- not just in western culture, but in many others as well -- is that of the scapegoat: if something goes wrong (or you fear something will go wrong) it's because some_one_ is causing it;* the only way to put things right is to find that someone and kill him* (or her: cf. seventeenth-century witch trials). Isn't that basically the plot of every suspense novel or action movie: the bad guy has to die, and then everything will be all right? As many other posters have noted, during the twentieth century many traditional scapegoats were removed from consideration; but people still have fears and anxieties, and they still look for someone -- preferably someone readily identifiable at a distance by physical characteristics -- to blame for whatever is tormenting them. If every fat person on the planet woke up thin tomorrow, we might begin to read newspaper articles about the dangerous epidemic of freckles.



^Eggs-fuckin'-xactly! *applause*


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## joswitch (Jul 22, 2010)

TraciJo67 said:


> *snip*
> 
> To the point at hand: I don't like discussing the "why" of how people get fat, because I don't think it matters. But when the discussion happens, seeing comments about genetics and poor metabolism and medical problems being attributed highlights an uncomfortably subtle point to me: That it's somehow not OK to be fat just because. Just because I like food, I eat a lot of it, and I don't like to exercise. What if that is the reason? Does that make me a bad fatty?



- You say "genetics" like genetics are somehow bad. Everyone has genetics. There is no value judgement in that.
- You'll notice I never used the term "poor metabolism".
There is fast metabolism and slow metabolism, they are different.
They may have differential survival values.
E.g. - in a famine - slow metabolism = useful.
In no sense is there a moral good/bad aspect.

And no, regardless of how you got fat / stayed fat / aren't fat anymore in fact, you are not good nor bad. 
*Your body size is morally neutral.*
As is your health status.
Which is not deducible by looking at your body size.
(I have said this over and over in this thread, but no-one seems to be reading those bits... huh)


> It is part and parcel of why I don't like that we question it at all. Shouldn't it just be OK to be what we are, no explanation necessary? I've grown up learning to be extraordinarily sensitive to context, to what's hidden in the layers of what isn't being said, and that is something of a qualifier: I get that sometimes, it's just ME, and my sensitivity. But sometimes, there really is an elephant in the room
> 
> To your credit, Jos - I think that you're getting bogged down with some nit-picking quibbles and you're reacting to that - a human response, and one that I've fallen prey to a time or three million. SuperO's point about the mechanism of shame is a really good one, though. When we fall prey to separating the GOOD fat from the BAD, it devalues everyone. Ultimately, it detracts from focusing on what should be the real point: How we get fat shouldn't be a consideration at all to our inherent value. Wouldn't it be great to arrive at a place where that's obvious ... to the extent that it need not be said at all?



^I was not "separating the GOOD fat from the BAD".

Mercy basically said all fat people are sickly.
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1505394&postcount=36
I said that's not true.

Dromond said almost all fat people get fat by "over"eating, and that no other mechanism was even possible.
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1505426&postcount=38
and
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1505671&postcount=48
I pointed out the fallacy of that too.

*There IS complexity at work in the causality of health and physical size.
And there is NOT a one-fits-all correlation between size and health.

All this shaming, good/bad stuff being kicked about is not coming from me*.

I do understand if some people don't want to discuss the "whys" of fat, at all, cos they feel it is irrelevant to and distracts from the politics of acceptance. (I agree)
That's fine. Either discuss "why fat" in depth and based on the actual evidence, or don't. Don't is fine.

But some people insist on first capitulating to the received mythos of "why fat" and also the mythos of "all fat = death" as some kind of prelude to opposing fat hatred. Which is absurd. And baffling to me.

And some people insist on trying to extrapolate from their own intuition of their own, singular situation to encompass all fat people. Which is a failure to understand that people are different one from another, and sample of one does not = statistically significant. That's blinkered and bad science.

So when I see that stuff casually dropped, unopposed into debate - supposedly debate about opposing fat hatred - well, that bothers me.
So, yeah I'm going to contest the truth of those assertions.
That does NOT = me putting forward some kind of good fat/bad fat thing.


The Cliff notes:
Body size - complex causes.
Health - complex causes.
There is NO "good / bad" fat.
Nor "good / bad" thin.
Regardless of why.
Size, and the why of size = *morally neutral.*
That society does not get this is part of the problem.
So capitulating to society's assumptions = own goal.
Rejecting the entire discussion as irrelevant = reasonable.
And of course:
All people deserve = rights / respect, regardless of size or cause of size.


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## joswitch (Jul 22, 2010)

joswitch said:


> ^Eggs-fuckin'-xactly! *applause*



Um, just to clarify - I meant ALL of Dr Feelgood's post.
Not just the bold bit. 
I just liked that especially, for its* sarcasm.*


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## joswitch (Jul 22, 2010)

mercy said:


> Put it this way: Michael C Hall would never be a star over here. Probably the most popular redhead* in Britain right now is this a member of an all-girl group. A couple of years ago, a DJ on the BBC's flagship radio station show called her "a dog" and there was no real uproar.**



*You don't watch Dr Who then...
Or listen to Florence and the Machine...

**That'd be cos everyone knows Chris Moyles (DJ in question) is a moron.


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## mercy (Jul 22, 2010)

joswitch said:


> *You don't watch Dr Who then...
> Or listen to Florence and the Machine...



You wouldn't believe the shit I've heard indie boys talking about Florence Welch because of her height and hair colour. 



> **That'd be cos everyone knows Chris Moyles (DJ in question) is a moron.



Yeah, I expect it from him. I don't expect normal people to think it's funny though.


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## dcoyote (Jul 22, 2010)

People have hatred for all kinds of people, but hatred towards fat people is more socially acceptable. It's seen as something that can be prevented and it's the fat person's fault. We know this isn't entirely true. People use things like that as a way to have the us and them mentality.


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## joswitch (Jul 22, 2010)

mercy said:


> You wouldn't believe the shit I've heard indie boys talking about Florence Welch because of her height and hair colour.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, I expect it from him. I don't expect normal people to think it's funny though.



Weakass indie-schmindie bois are clearly jealous of her epic talent, enormous passion for her art and well-deserved adulation.... They should give up and go back to accountancy...


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## Fox (Jul 28, 2010)

We can't help but hating fat people. TV told us to do it. So did the magazines and books and movies and the modeling industry. If all those sources tell us to hate them, then we probably should. *sarcasm*


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## BBW4Chattery (Jul 29, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> Interesting fact: In some parts of Italy, red-headedness (iz that a wurd?) is considered bad luck because it's believed Judas Iscariot was a red-head.
> 
> I wonder if there's any historical trivia/superstition like that in the UK about redheads.....



I'm a redhead. I've literally had guys tell me they wouldn't ever date a redhead... and they meant it. I've had guy friends say things like, "God, redheads are such crazy bitches..." then look toward me, stutter, and say, "oh, but not you."

For what it's worth, I've had people do the same about fat comments... they start talking crap about fat people, apparently, forgetting for a milisecond that my 200-300 lbs is 4 feet away... and then, they stutter and try to cover it up.

About the topic, I almost spoke up about a fat-related hate issue tonight. I've been a fan of Daniel Tosh since before he was ever on television with his first special... let alone since he got Tosh.0. He never used to be so juvenile with the fat jokes. Lately, it's been almost pathological... every other joke he makes is about fat people. 

I almost wonder if he has had a relative get sick with weight exacerbated illnesses or if a fat girlfriend dumped him or if he's just getting lazy with his material... but I came SOOOO CLOSE to messaging Comedy Central and/or his page about it tonight. Probably wouldn't do any good... but it was just not even funny anymore... Literally, every other joke for 30 minutes was slamming someone who was overweight. 

He wouldn't do a whole show mocking Latinos or a whole show mocking Obama... so why a whole show on fat people? Ugh, makes me not want to be a fan anymore.

I can't help but think that the casual portrayal of fat abuse in the public cloud of information doesn't perpetuate fat hatred.


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## abel (Jul 29, 2010)

When so much of the country is fat, such discrimination doesn't really matter.

For example if a person is Jewish and thus just a few percent of the population, I can see anti-semitism making them feel vulnerable and unsafe.

Whereas with fat people this is not a problem.


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## jdsumm (Jul 29, 2010)

abel said:


> When so much of the country is fat, such discrimination doesn't really matter.
> 
> For example if a person is Jewish and thus just a few percent of the population, I can see anti-semitism making them feel vulnerable and unsafe.
> 
> Whereas with fat people this is not a problem.



UMMMM...I see that you have been here on Dims since 2007, have you read anything on here and heard of the countless ways that fat discrimination does matter? I am just stunned by your statement. I understand your math, but I...well I am just at a loss for words...


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## Dromond (Jul 29, 2010)

abel said:


> When so much of the country is fat, such discrimination doesn't really matter.
> 
> For example if a person is Jewish and thus just a few percent of the population, I can see anti-semitism making them feel vulnerable and unsafe.
> 
> Whereas with fat people this is not a problem.



Discrimination and hatred ALWAYS matter.


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## Blackjack (Jul 29, 2010)

abel said:


> When so much of the country is fat, such discrimination doesn't really matter.
> 
> For example if a person is Jewish and thus just a few percent of the population, I can see anti-semitism making them feel vulnerable and unsafe.
> 
> Whereas with fat people this is not a problem.



Haven't used this one in a while


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jul 29, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> Interesting fact: In some parts of Italy, red-headedness (iz that a wurd?) is considered bad luck because it's believed Judas Iscariot was a red-head.
> 
> I wonder if there's any historical trivia/superstition like that in the UK about redheads.....



According to Opie and Tatem, _A Dictionary of Superstitions_, in the UK it is believed that:

(1) In Shropshire it was considered unlucky for a red-haired person to enter your house on New Year's Day: it betokens a death before the year is out.

(2) In Lancashire, red-haired childred were supposed to indicate infidelity on the part of the mother.

(3) In Scotland, it was considered bad luck to meet a red-haired person.

(4) In the Aran Islands, meeting a red-haired woman was supposed to bring ill luck in fishing.

It also mentions that red-haired individuals are often accused of being descended from the Scots or the Danes. Hard to believe they'd still resent paying the Danegeld a thousand years later, but some folks hold a grudge longer than others.


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## aocutiepi (Jul 29, 2010)

BBW4Chattery said:


> About the topic, I almost spoke up about a fat-related hate issue tonight. I've been a fan of Daniel Tosh since before he was ever on television with his first special... let alone since he got Tosh.0. He never used to be so juvenile with the fat jokes. Lately, it's been almost pathological... every other joke he makes is about fat people.




Ugh, I watched the new episode of Tosh.0 last night and noticed the same thing. Trust me, Daniel Tosh, I was not laughing. Shame, as I was thinking about going to his show when he pops into town. That whole segment about the swingset was just bad fat joke after bad fat joke. So tired.


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## joswitch (Jul 30, 2010)

abel said:


> When so much of the country is fat, such discrimination doesn't really matter.
> 
> For example if a person is Jewish and thus just a few percent of the population, I can see anti-semitism making them feel vulnerable and unsafe.
> 
> Whereas with fat people this is not a problem.


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## superodalisque (Jul 30, 2010)

abel said:


> When so much of the country is fat, such discrimination doesn't really matter.
> 
> For example if a person is Jewish and thus just a few percent of the population, I can see anti-semitism making them feel vulnerable and unsafe.
> 
> Whereas with fat people this is not a problem.



this SHOULD be true, but until fat people believe it --no dice.


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