# is there a BBW/BHM closet



## superodalisque (Feb 25, 2009)

there are lot of discussions about closeted FAs and FFAs. But is there a BBW or BHM closet? sure, its obvious that a BBW or BHM is fat when they go out into the world. but, are they hiding from being in the world because of thier fat? are they hiding in the house? when they go out are they only going SA events? can they function around other people or are they painfully uncomfortable when out and about. have they compromised on all of their hopes dreams and wishes because they are fat? are they justified in that or do they need a little push? do you think its fair or unfair that they don't seem to get the same kind of anger for being in a BBW/BHM closet if there is one?


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## Tooz (Feb 25, 2009)

I always thought there was a closet, but in more than just the way you mentioned. Yes, there are those who simply hide in the literal sense, but to me it was always more of a confidence thing within your social life. Growing up, I always had friends, but I was insecure. If someone made a fat joke, I just remained quiet. You know, in a "they aren't talking about ME" sense. If something Size Acceptance-related came up, I'd just be quiet.

When I "came out of the closet" as I see it, I took the "yes, I am fat, and I am fine with that. I am confident and wonderful-- not in spite of my fat, but along with it." I now have no trouble speaking up if I hear derogatory fat jokes, or speaking my piece about the injustices of our society regarding fat.


I hope that makes sense!


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## superodalisque (Feb 25, 2009)

Tooz said:


> I always thought there was a closet, but in more than just the way you mentioned. Yes, there are those who simply hide in the literal sense, but to me it was always more of a confidence thing within your social life. Growing up, I always had friends, but I was insecure. If someone made a fat joke, I just remained quiet. You know, in a "they aren't talking about ME" sense. If something Size Acceptance-related came up, I'd just be quiet.
> 
> When I "came out of the closet" as I see it, I took the "yes, I am fat, and I am fine with that. I am confident and wonderful-- not in spite of my fat, but along with it." I now have no trouble speaking up if I hear derogatory fat jokes, or speaking my piece about the injustices of our society regarding fat.
> 
> ...



i think that makes a whole lot of sense. i think its more focuses than even what i was thinking of. goodness knows its a serious closet if someone isn't even admitting that fat applies to them and being ok with that.

glad you are out and kicking!


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## Tooz (Feb 25, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> i think that makes a whole lot of sense. i think its more focuses than even what i was thinking of. goodness knows its a serious closet if someone isn't even admitting that fat applies to them and being ok with that.
> 
> glad you are out and kicking!



Me too. Ever since I became "militant" a few years ago, I feel so much better. Life is so much better.


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## jewels_mystery (Feb 25, 2009)

Gosh this post brings back memories. I would say I was in the closet in my early 20's. I just wanted to be invisible. Everything was saved for when I loose weight, 'will go to college, fly on a plane, visit Europe". Thank the Gods my esteem improved. I love myself and the curves/mounds that are part of me. hell if no one else is in love with me, I am.  I've adopted the attitude that I am big, beautiful and deal with it. I can't change the past but grateful I learned the lessons.


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## Tad (Feb 25, 2009)

I think that a BBW or BHM who is in the closet could also be trying not to be seen as a fat person. They might be a person who is fat, but they are adverse to being seen as one of those fat people. So they may do some things like:

- avoid eating in public, 
- do not hang around with other fat people, 
- make sure that they always have some diet in progress which they can talk about,
- lie about their weight or clothing size, in an attempt to minimize their size in others eyes,
- stand on a bus or subway that sit down and be seen to fill up more than one seat,
- accept whatever limited clothing options they can find at department stores, rather than go into a fat persons store. 
- cram themselves into too small clothes rather than admit to themselves their real size
- avoid size acceptance sites and occasions.


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## jewels_mystery (Feb 25, 2009)

OMG this is my mom. She is about a size 24 and refuses to admit it. Swears she's too small for lane bryant and the avenue clothing stores. Will only wear sweat pants and tee shirts. buys all her clothes in smaller sizes, so she looks like a sausage. My sister and I have to buy her clothes in order for her to look decent. When she sees the size we bought, she swears the clothes run very small and that's why she can fit them. :blush:



edx said:


> I think that a BBW or BHM who is in the closet could also be trying not to be seen as a fat person. They might be a person who is fat, but they are adverse to being seen as one of those fat people. So they may do some things like:
> 
> - avoid eating in public,
> - do not hang around with other fat people,
> ...


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## ashmamma84 (Feb 25, 2009)

There is definitely a closet...and it gets to a point where its just sad and pathetic, to me at least. There is a big fascinating world out there and hiding behind a computer or going to SA specific events all the time isn't the be all and end all. I guess if that's simply what you choose to do then fine, but for alot of women there is still some kind of void. And I'm sorry but it gets tiresome to hear how its so hard because of the fat, etc, etc...

Case and point, I have a friend who is also fat, but the difference between us is that she is really really unhappy with herself. Not just her fat, but just her life in general -- she truly believes that if she loses about 100lbs she'll be happier and life will be sunshine and unicorns (nevermind that she attempted this before and she was still the same woe is me, life just seems to hate me type of woman). It's gotten to a point where I've just stopped asking her to do things. She's really become a drain on me, as much as I care about her...I can't do it anymore. And quite frankly, I don't feel I should have to. Change starts with self and it doesn't matter how much I preach from my diamond encrusted soap box (I'm classy like dat  ), she has to just do the work herself...and I know its scary but you gotta start from somewhere. 

I always say...go hard or go home!


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## Your Plump Princess (Feb 25, 2009)

I Was Like That.
For a Long Time, in my Earlier Teen's. 
But For the last two years, I've slowly been making progress.
..Then when I joined Dim's it became quick progress, Lol.


I still have minor issues going out in public alone, though. [If it's like, a mall or something. You know, TONS of people.] I Get extremely nervous and I swear everyone looks at me. [Probably cause I -LOOK- like a nervous wreck. Lol] Though I don't think that has much to do with my weight.... Anyhow, Change won't happen overnight. For ALL of my teen years, until recently, I wouldn't eat in public if there were alot of people around. I was one of those "Oh, I'll have a ... salad.. " Sort of Women. But For The Last 6 Months I've been working on that.


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## stan_der_man (Feb 25, 2009)

Maybe I'm over simplifying things here, but it seems to me that these issues ultimately come down to being self-esteem or confidence issues. In this example, it simply happens to be that fat, or a person's size is the focus of the esteem issue. There are plenty of thin people (or people of all sizes and colour) that go through these sort of self-esteem issues to some degree or another, for whatever reason. The only difference I can see about the fat related aspect is that a person's size is something that's obviously visible and because of that, perhaps the issue of the person's size becomes more focused.


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## disaster117 (Feb 25, 2009)

I have to admit, when I saw this thread I wasn't sure as to what it meant, but now I'm agreeing. I think there is definitely a closet, so to speak. I've been part of that closet my entire life. I've always hated being fat, I never used to eat in public, and I definitely can relate to the thing Tooz said about insecurity. I had never felt secure with myself or my weight, up until a few months ago. I think some people are just in denial, but there's really no reason. It's just trying to help them to realize that.


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## superodalisque (Feb 25, 2009)

fa_man_stan said:


> Maybe I'm over simplifying things here, but it seems to me that these issues ultimately come down to being self-esteem or confidence issues. In this example, it simply happens to be that fat, or a person's size is the focus of the esteem issue. There are plenty of thin people (or people of all sizes and colour) that go through these sort of self-esteem issues to some degree or another, for whatever reason. The only difference I can see about the fat related aspect is that a person's size is something that's obviously visible and because of that, perhaps the issue of the person's size becomes more focused.




yeah, sometimes people have an unreasoning fear of being in life. it could be that everyone is looking around for an excuse for why they can't take part or why they can't make it. and maybe the shame that people feel is really about something deep down but its easier to focus on some external thing. for some people maybe fat can be just the thing everyone can see that keeps you out of play--so there's your built in excuse.


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## SparklingBBW (Feb 25, 2009)

fa_man_stan said:


> Maybe I'm over simplifying things here, but it seems to me that these issues ultimately come down to being self-esteem or confidence issues. In this example, it simply happens to be that fat, or a person's size is the focus of the esteem issue. There are plenty of thin people (or people of all sizes and colour) that go through these sort of self-esteem issues to some degree or another, for whatever reason. The only difference I can see about the fat related aspect is that a person's size is something that's obviously visible and because of that, perhaps the issue of the person's size becomes more focused.



Stan, I know you're a good-hearted man, but here is my emotionally driven response to what you wrote: 

You're blaming the victim. Stop it. This is why the whole "self-esteem issues" and "not confident enough" bullsh*t" makes a lot of us so effing angry. 

.

I'll respond more later when I've cooled down. 

.


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## CurvaceousBBWLover (Feb 25, 2009)

I think there definitely is a closet. I know people who are afraid to go out and have fun because of their self-esteem issues regarding their weight. It's really sad.

One of the things I find interesting is how my local chapter of NAAFA, the DC chapter, chooses not to publicize its events. Only a few people show up to the events. But I know the organizers are trying to help people who are still in the closet regarding their weight and to give them a safe space.

In this discriminatory society, there are all kinds of closets for people who are afraid that they won't fit in.


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## stan_der_man (Feb 25, 2009)

Genarose54 said:


> Stan, I know you're a good-hearted man, but here is my emotionally driven response to what you wrote:
> 
> You're blaming the victim. Stop it. This is why the whole "self-esteem issues" and "not confident enough" bullsh*t" makes a lot of us so effing angry.
> 
> ...



Genarose, I'm not blaming those victimized by these sort of situations by any means. As with anyone who has a self-esteem or self confidence issue, there may very well be external forces that are a very real part of this. I'm not saying that these sort of issues are necessarily self-inflicted.

What I'm saying is that the common denominator of these issues seems to be the low self-esteem for whatever reason the cause (external or internal). If I'm understanding you correctly, I agree that there are many instances in which external forces hurt the person, across the spectrum of why a person may have such an esteem issue.




And to answer the original question you presented Superodalisque... I do think there is a "closet" where people hide into to escape whatever it is they are escaping, but it is more or less a general sort of closet that many other people might hide into for whatever reason.


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## superodalisque (Feb 25, 2009)

Genarose54 said:


> Stan, I know you're a good-hearted man, but here is my emotionally driven response to what you wrote:
> 
> You're blaming the victim. Stop it. This is why the whole "self-esteem issues" and "not confident enough" bullsh*t" makes a lot of us so effing angry.
> 
> ...



self esteem issues that can be equated to other people's self esteem issues might just be a way to help people to get out of the fat "closet". then people might see that they aren't so freakish or weird. everybody has something to deal with. sometimes you can see it , sometimes you cant.

the world may not change toward fat people ever, but we have to love ourselves enough to live without fear and shame and to get all of the good stuff that life has to offer. we are worthy of that.

i don't mean this as a personal attack but an honest thought. when i see people get very angry over the concept that it would help thier life if they could somehow enhance their self esteem it makes me wonder if deep down they might know thats the truth but they are really afraid to make the steps necessary. its a lot easier to blame other people if you feel that your life is crap. its easy to take offense. then nothing you do is your fault. i think it helps a lot when fat people can stop thinking of themselves as victims but simply as people who have to live life and get everything out of it that they can. that should not have to depend on everyone on earth being nice to you or receptive to who you are. but i do think it has everything to do with whats going on inside of you.

respectfully,there are no living victims. there are just people who decide to overcome negative and even traumatic events in their lives or people who chose to surrender to that. the only real victims are people who are dead and have no chance to recover the valuable thing that life is.


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## superodalisque (Feb 25, 2009)

CurvaceousBBWLover said:


> I think there definitely is a closet. I know people who are afraid to go out and have fun because of their self-esteem issues regarding their weight. It's really sad.
> 
> One of the things I find interesting is how my local chapter of NAAFA, the DC chapter, chooses not to publicize its events. Only a few people show up to the events. But I know the organizers are trying to help people who are still in the closet regarding their weight and to give them a safe space.
> 
> In this discriminatory society, there are all kinds of closets for people who are afraid that they won't fit in.



good point. i always wonder why you never see BBW events published in the newspaper etc... the same as any other event. i know that a lot more people would come but it seems almost like the underground railroad. if you don't know the code words or the secret handshake no one says anything about it. so are even our supportive groups in some kind of a closet? i can understand that they don't want the kooks showing up and starting trouble, but kooks are everywhere. maybe they could just hire more security. what does the underground nature of all of this say to BBWs/BHMs about their place in society if even the events organizers look like they are ashamed of their own events? i have no idea about the NAAFA chapter in Atlanta and i've been around for nearly 6 years. you'd think i would have heard something by now.


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## stan_der_man (Feb 25, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> self esteem issues that can be equated to other people's self esteem issues might just be a way to help people to get out of the fat "closet". then people might see that they aren't so freakish or weird. everybody has something to deal with. sometimes you can see it , sometimes you cant.
> 
> the world may not change toward fat people ever, but we have to love ourselves enough to live without fear and shame and to get all of the good stuff that life has to offer. we are worthy of that.
> 
> ...



If I may comment as to what you said Superodalisque... I agree with Genarose (if I'm understanding her correctly...) that the causes of low self-esteem can be external, (condescending remarks and actions from others, a spouse, family members, or whoever...) these being the things that may drive a person "into the closet" so to speak. The closet being a place where the victimized person has difficulty accepting themselves as they are, or being proud of who they are. I do believe that the causes of low self-esteem can be external, but ultimately the "cure" for these esteem issues must come from within. Only the person by themselves (perhaps with external assistance... i.e. a counselor or whatever...) can raise their own self awareness to a place where they can feel good about themselves, and maybe eventually to a level where they even feel pride in who they are. But these feelings of pride and well being are only something that can come from within.


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## exile in thighville (Feb 25, 2009)

three words: fat. angle. pics.


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## superodalisque (Feb 25, 2009)

fa_man_stan said:


> If I may comment as to what you said Superodalisque... I agree with Genarose (if I'm understanding her correctly...) that the causes of low self-esteem can be external, (condescending remarks and actions from others, a spouse, family members, or whoever...) these being the things that may drive a person "into the closet" so to speak. The closet being a place where the victimized person has difficulty accepting themselves as they are, or being proud of who they are. I do believe that the causes of low self-esteem can be external, but ultimately the "cure" for these esteem issues must come from within. Only the person by themselves (perhaps with external assistance... i.e. a counselor or whatever...) can raise their own self awareness to a place where they can feel good about themselves, and maybe eventually to a level where they even feel pride in who they are.



yes i can understand that. there are external reasons. people generally get to a bad place because of them. but, basically like you said, when your dealing with self esteem the problem is learning not to internalize the negativity of other people anymore. you can't take the opinion of other people as fact. if you do you'll freeze. and you can't submit to being a victim either. maybe its more of a coffin than a closet. if you decide that you are victim and you decide not to live you are in a coffin. you have to wake up to your life and chart your own path. i can definitely understand why people have that feeling but its not good to let them stay there. people who try to help are kind of like people trying to shake someone awake. sometimes you can and then again sometimes they have to wake up on their own.


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## Victim (Feb 25, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> good point. i always wonder why you never see BBW events published in the newspaper etc... the same as any other event. i know that a lot more people would come but it seems almost like the underground railroad. if you don't know the code words or the secret handshake no one says anything about it. so are even our supportive groups in some kind of a closet? i can understand that they don't want the kooks showing up and starting trouble, but kooks are everywhere. maybe they could just hire more security. what does the underground nature of all of this say to BBWs/BHMs about their place in society if even the events organizers look like they are ashamed of their own events? i have no idea about the NAAFA chapter in Atlanta and i've been around for nearly 6 years. you'd think i would have heard something by now.



I'm afraid NAAFA doesn't DO much of anything.


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## butch (Feb 25, 2009)

You know, when I think of a 'fat closet,' i don't think so much about fat people either staying segregated in a SA environment, or fat people who stay out of life altogether. Instead, I think of people who are so ashamed to be fat that they live a life in complete denial of their bodies. In some ways, this can be good, in situations where one can transcend the limitations society imposes on fat people, but in other ways, it speaks to a deep shame over one's body, and a complicity in sustaining the messages that fat=bad and that no one would ever want to be fat.

There's this quote I like, from an academic article on fat, where the person says that "there is no such thing as a fat body." What she means is, our society tells us that all fat bodies are really just diseased/disordered/pathological thin bodies, and that fat is incidental to our core sense of self. One can have an intrinsic identity based on race, ethnicity, class, ability, age, gender, sexuality, etc., but such a core fat identity, and thus a right to exist as is, without medical and societal intervention and disapproval, is denied.

When we live in a world where all sizes of bodies are granted a basic right to normality, then we can hopefully see the end of any fat closets. I don't think that will happen until a sizable majority of fat people embrace their bodies as is, not as capitulation because 'diets don't work,' but because all bodies are beautiful and have worth.


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## mergirl (Feb 25, 2009)

butch said:


> There's this quote I like, from an academic article on fat, where the person says that "there is no such thing as a fat body." What she means is, our society tells us that all fat bodies are really just diseased/disordered/pathological thin bodies, and that fat is incidental to our core sense of self. One can have an intrinsic identity based on race, ethnicity, class, ability, age, gender, sexuality, etc., but such a core fat identity, and thus a right to exist as is, without medical and societal intervention and disapproval, is denied.



I am fat on the inside. No-one believes this and thinks i'm mental. Ive tried to come out the closet many times but to no avail. I think i need fat re-asignment or something..not sure. 
I am mentally and emotionally fat but my body doesnt really match that. If you belive that fat is more than physical you will get what i mean. Queer/Fa is my sexuality and so is Fat. 
Any more fat people trapped in not so fat bodies? Should we get a support group together? I hear about thin people being trapped in fat bodies all the time, even though they have been fat their whole lives and have no concept of 'thin'. I think its time that 'fat' the sexuality came out the closet..Its in all shapes and sizes and is totally and utterly subjective, geographical, historical, meaningful and meaningless.
As for the closet, well i'm trying to come out but i keep getting pushed back in.


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## superodalisque (Feb 25, 2009)

mergirl said:


> I am fat on the inside. No-one believes this and thinks i'm mental. Ive tried to come out the closet many times but to no avail. I think i need fat re-asignment or something..not sure.
> I am mentally and emotionally fat but my body doesnt really match that. If you belive that fat is more than physical you will get what i mean. Queer/Fa is my sexuality and so is Fat.
> Any more fat people trapped in not so fat bodies? Should we get a support group together? I hear about thin people being trapped in fat bodies all the time, even though they have been fat their whole lives and have no concept of 'thin'. I think its time that 'fat' the sexuality came out the closet..Its in all shapes and sizes and is totally and utterly subjective, geographical, historical, meaningful and meaningless.
> As for the closet, well i'm trying to come out but i keep getting pushed back in.



i agree. really interesting points. i was surprised because i find that people 
( not necessarily in SA but sometimes them as well) put fat love in the same category as swinging, wife swapping and S&M etc... i found this really surprising. i never thought of myself as part of the sexual underground.


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## tonynyc (Feb 25, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> good point. i always wonder why you never see BBW events published in the newspaper etc... the same as any other event. i know that a lot more people would come but it seems almost like the underground railroad. if you don't know the code words or the secret handshake no one says anything about it. so are even our supportive groups in some kind of a closet? i can understand that they don't want the kooks showing up and starting trouble, but kooks are everywhere. maybe they could just hire more security. what does the underground nature of all of this say to BBWs/BHMs about their place in society if even the events organizers look like they are ashamed of their own events? i have no idea about the NAAFA chapter in Atlanta and i've been around for nearly 6 years. you'd think i would have heard something by now.



I have to disagree on your assumptions as to why BBW events are not advertised in the newspaper. 

I don't think it's the "underground" nature - though in my opinion the BBW movement was never underground. 

It was always out there. It's just that now you have a different medium to get your message out there. In the past, the SA movement has been featured in news shows over the years (60 Minutes, 20/20) to name a few.

A good deal has to do with the impact of technology and the Internet. Technology changes things and the way businesses are run. With newspaper readership down there is no point to advertise in the print medium. 
Also with the Internet- it might force things to become more 'less active' as they get all the information on their computer.

I'm not sure of how you became aware of the SA movement-but, for me it was definitely in the Pre-Internet era. My exposure was through a local news show (Eyewitness News - Channel 7) which featured a NAAFA dance at a local church. NAAFA was fairly active at that time and in the media and you often saw local NAAFAN's like the late Susan Mason take on the media (Bill Boggs on WNEW-TV now FOX , Danny Bonaduce, when he had a talk show ) and more than handle any of their 'snarky' remarks. 

When NAAFA was in it's heyday and had Regional chapters a strong NY presence, they would advertise events in the Village Voice;don't recall if they advertised in the other local papers Daily News or the Post. It's a shame that the DC Chapter of NAAFA is one of the rare active chapters that is left. The DC folks run a great organization.

As for other areas in the country- I can only comment on NYC. The NYC NAAFA Chapter only exist as a YAHOO Group and does some informal events;but, in no way can they compete with folks that do dances on a regular basis. "Goddesses" does most of the dances here in NYC. 

In the tri-state area you have: NJ Bashes - Goddesses, Big Connections (CT) , Heather's dances in Mass, Ample Beauties Hartford CT, DC NAAFA to name a few as well as other groups that one can find on the net. I guess the demise of NAAFA can be pointed to many reasons;but, one can conclude that Technology - and Alternative 'Social' options played a big role. 

Now as far as the 'Kooks' - you can have your flaky Men and BBW show up to these events;but, this is what can happen at any public function.


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Feb 25, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> there are lot of discussions about closeted FAs and FFAs. But is there a BBW or BHM closet? sure, its obvious that a BBW or BHM is fat when they go out into the world. but, are they hiding from being in the world because of thier fat? are they hiding in the house? when they go out are they only going SA events? can they function around other people or are they painfully uncomfortable when out and about. have they compromised on all of their hopes dreams and wishes because they are fat? are they justified in that or do they need a little push? do you think its fair or unfair that they don't seem to get the same kind of anger for being in a BBW/BHM closet if there is one?


I suspect that quite a few BBWs and BHMs very rarely go out. I'm sure some of them never leave their homes. When Sandie and I lived in Colorado, we published a newsletter and ran dances for large folks and their admirers. I remember two BBWs in their 40s who came to our first dance and told us that it was the first time they had been out socially for more than ten years.

I think no one wold express anger toward these people who have let their fat shut them away from the world. Instead, they should be encouraged to come ot and join society again. Just how to do this is a subject for another thread...


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Feb 25, 2009)

tonynyc said:


> I have to disagree on your assumptions as to why BBW events are not advertised in the newspaper.


Back in 1994 and 1995, Sandie and I published a newsletter and an dances for large people and their admirers in Colorado. We didn't advertise in the newspapers forone simple reason - we couldn't afford it. We did send out lots of press releases that resulted in a half-page article in the Pueblo _Chieftain_ that was condensed into a smaller article in the Denver _Post_'s Sunday magazine section. Ane we made two appearances on the local CBS affiliate's news programs - a five-minute segment on the 6:00 news that was so well received that they invited us back for a 30-minute segment on their 12:00 noon news program.

That and word-of-mouth was the only advertising that was within our budget.


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## olwen (Feb 26, 2009)

This thread so far is full of interesting perspectives. I never thought of us as having a closet - a closet is a secret keeper and fat people can't secret their fat away from others, only themselves..tho in that regard yeah there is a closet...I think Stan already summed up what I would have said: 



fa_man_stan said:


> If I may comment as to what you said Superodalisque... I agree with Genarose (if I'm understanding her correctly...) that the causes of low self-esteem can be external, (condescending remarks and actions from others, a spouse, family members, or whoever...) these being the things that may drive a person "into the closet" so to speak. The closet being a place where the victimized person has difficulty accepting themselves as they are, or being proud of who they are. I do believe that the causes of low self-esteem can be external, but ultimately the "cure" for these esteem issues must come from within. Only the person by themselves (perhaps with external assistance... i.e. a counselor or whatever...) can raise their own self awareness to a place where they can feel good about themselves, and maybe eventually to a level where they even feel pride in who they are. But these feelings of pride and well being are only something that can come from within.



I'd go on to add that maybe sometimes we don't see ourselves as victims, but rather as the persecuted and I think their might be differences there since you can think of yourself as being persecuted, but still want to fight back, but I guess that isn't what you're referring to SuperO. And I agree with this as well: 



superodalisque said:


> yes i can understand that. there are external reasons. people generally get to a bad place because of them. but, basically like you said, when your dealing with self esteem the problem is learning not to internalize the negativity of other people anymore. you can't take the opinion of other people as fact. if you do you'll freeze. and you can't submit to being a victim either. maybe its more of a coffin than a closet. if you decide that you are victim and you decide not to live you are in a coffin. you have to wake up to your life and chart your own path. i can definitely understand why people have that feeling but its not good to let them stay there. people who try to help are kind of like people trying to shake someone awake. sometimes you can and then again sometimes they have to wake up on their own.



But I want to emphasize that I don't know that whether or not they wake up is up to us at all because we can only do so much. I'm all for the humanitarian gestures but like you say, they have to wake up on their own. For me it's just a question of when to recognize when I've done all I can...I only have so much shake in me. I know fat people like that too and it drives me a little crazy if I spend too much time with them. At this point I can only hope that I can serve as some kind of example of what happens when you do wake up, like maybe they'll get it and decide to take action. 



butch said:


> You know, when I think of a 'fat closet,' i don't think so much about fat people either staying segregated in a SA environment, or fat people who stay out of life altogether. Instead, I think of people who are so ashamed to be fat that they live a life in complete denial of their bodies. In some ways, this can be good, in situations where one can transcend the limitations society imposes on fat people, but in other ways, it speaks to a deep shame over one's body, and a complicity in sustaining the messages that fat=bad and that no one would ever want to be fat.
> 
> *There's this quote I like, from an academic article on fat, where the person says that "there is no such thing as a fat body." What she means is, our society tells us that all fat bodies are really just diseased/disordered/pathological thin bodies, and that fat is incidental to our core sense of self. One can have an intrinsic identity based on race, ethnicity, class, ability, age, gender, sexuality, etc., but such a core fat identity, and thus a right to exist as is, without medical and societal intervention and disapproval, is denied.*
> 
> When we live in a world where all sizes of bodies are granted a basic right to normality, then we can hopefully see the end of any fat closets. I don't think that will happen until a sizable majority of fat people embrace their bodies as is, not as capitulation because 'diets don't work,' but because all bodies are beautiful and have worth.



That just gobsmacked me in the face...it's true too. If my size wasn't given so much emphasis I wouldn't identify so strongly with it. I do wonder how I'd go about things if I had focused as much on some other aspect of myself. To not have that identifier would leave me kinda...I'd freak out, which is what I went thru after loosing some weight. I had to readjust to being smaller, even tho I'm still fat. To say it was...difficult is an understatement. I had to rethink who I was, and when I think about the amount of anger I carried as a bigger person it kind of frightens me a little. When other people see you as other and you really wear that otherness...I guess the choices are wear it with shame, wear it with anger, or wear it with pride, and now I see another choice is don't wear it at all, which, SuperO is something you say a lot and I now understand why, but to not own that otherness in some way seems just short of impossible in our society, for me anyway, so I choose to wear it with pride, but hopefully it's not stubborn pride.


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## olwen (Feb 26, 2009)

mergirl said:


> I am fat on the inside. No-one believes this and thinks i'm mental. Ive tried to come out the closet many times but to no avail. I think i need fat re-asignment or something..not sure.
> I am mentally and emotionally fat but my body doesnt really match that. If you belive that fat is more than physical you will get what i mean. Queer/Fa is my sexuality and so is Fat.
> Any more fat people trapped in not so fat bodies? Should we get a support group together? I hear about thin people being trapped in fat bodies all the time, even though they have been fat their whole lives and have no concept of 'thin'. I think its time that 'fat' the sexuality came out the closet..Its in all shapes and sizes and is totally and utterly subjective, geographical, historical, meaningful and meaningless.
> As for the closet, well i'm trying to come out but i keep getting pushed back in.



It's funny, tho I identify as fat, it's kind of hard for me to wrap my brain around a thin person identifying as fat in the same way I do...I can understand if you have a fat lover and you identify with fatness on that level, like if the fatness that is you is wrapped up mostly in sexuality, then that is the part of you that is fat inside, but other stuff like living in the fat body...it's difficult for me to picture a thin person (who's never been fat) having true understanding of what it's like to experience fatness in a nonsexual way...oy, my brain is starting to hurt....I hope all that made sense.


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## mergirl (Feb 26, 2009)

olwen said:


> It's funny, tho I identify as fat, it's kind of hard for me to wrap my brain around a thin person identifying as fat in the same way I do...I can understand if you have a fat lover and you identify with fatness on that level, like if the fatness that is you is wrapped up mostly in sexuality, then that is the part of you that is fat inside, but other stuff like living in the fat body...it's difficult for me to picture a thin person (who's never been fat) having true understanding of what it's like to experience fatness in a nonsexual way...oy, my brain is starting to hurt....I hope all that made sense.


What i was trying to say is that there are many different levels to being fat. If 'fat' was just a physical concept then it would only stop people doing things that they psysically were unable to do. This would make it a 'disablement' and which if you subscribe to the social model of disability would mean that in fact it was societies fault for failing to include everyone. So perhaps 'Fat' is never actually a psysical thing and is actually conceptual.
Anyway, how come a thin person who has never been fat can not get away with saying they are fat, when a fat person who has never been thin can say they are 'a thin person trapped in a fat body' and everyone agrees?.
Actually though..CLINICALLY....CLINICALLY..i am classed as 'obese'. This is the physical me. Though i dont subscribe to this. Physically i am thin. To me, externally.
What i'm getting at, is that there is more to 'fat' than the physical. People who lose weight through surgery etc can still feel like a fat person. Someone with body dysmorphia might believe they are fat. Someone who i think is thin might be deemed fat in other countries, time periods, social circles. 
So what is Fat?
If you can define an all encompassing definition, then perhaps we can begin to discuss the ideas that surround it. It means different things to different people, it is subjective and not just physical.
So why cant you take on board me being a fat person?
Would you say the same about a transgendered person who KNEW within themselves they were female even though they had a cock and no tits and genetically they were xy?
What makes fat any different?
You might say, well you cannot properly know the struggles a fat person has to go through so why become fat and i might say the same to a male to female transexual about the struggles of being a woman.
To be honest i'm just throwing ideas into the pot here, because i know there is more to Fat than meets the eye.


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## mergirl (Feb 26, 2009)

Oh.. and its not a sexual thing. Its partly political and mostly fundimental.


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## butch (Feb 26, 2009)

mergirl said:


> What i was trying to say is that there are many different levels to being fat. If 'fat' was just a physical concept then it would only stop people doing things that they psysically were unable to do. This would make it a 'disablement' and which if you subscribe to the social model of disability would mean that in fact it was societies fault for failing to include everyone. So perhaps 'Fat' is never actually a psysical thing and is actually conceptual.
> Anyway, how come a thin person who has never been fat can not get away with saying they are fat, when a fat person who has never been thin can say they are 'a thin person trapped in a fat body' and everyone agrees?.
> Actually though..CLINICALLY....CLINICALLY..i am classed as 'obese'. This is the physical me. Though i dont subscribe to this. Physically i am thin. To me, externally.
> What i'm getting at, is that there is more to 'fat' than the physical. People who lose weight through surgery etc can still feel like a fat person. Someone with body dysmorphia might believe they are fat. Someone who i think is thin might be deemed fat in other countries, time periods, social circles.
> ...



I can't rep you for this, alas, but I love it. This is some mind-altering thoughtful stuff, and I for one can embrace your fat identity, mer!


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## mergirl (Feb 26, 2009)

butch said:


> I can't rep you for this, alas, but I love it. This is some mind-altering thoughtful stuff, and I for one can embrace your fat identity, mer!


Thank you, you wonderful, intelligent and open minded woman you. x


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## Tad (Feb 26, 2009)

*sits in wondering awe, soaking in what Mergirl is saying*


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## mergirl (Feb 26, 2009)

edx said:


> *sits in wondering awe, soaking in what Mergirl is saying*


hmm come on..you know what i'm saying edx..we have the same sexuality.


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## Tad (Feb 26, 2009)

mergirl said:


> hmm come on..you know what i'm saying edx..we have the same sexuality.



I know, I know....I'd just never been able to put that part of it into words before....hence the awe. I admit that these days on any discussion relating to sexuality I tend to just wait for you to post, so that all I have to say is "what she said" or some equivalent. So similar that it is spooky.

Which when you think about it, is a neat example of how little physical gender plays into some of these things.


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## mergirl (Feb 26, 2009)

edx said:


> I know, I know....I'd just never been able to put that part of it into words before....hence the awe. I admit that these days on any discussion relating to sexuality I tend to just wait for you to post, so that all I have to say is "what she said" or some equivalent. So similar that it is spooky.
> 
> Which when you think about it, is a neat example of how little physical gender plays into some of these things.


Yes, it really surprises me that my sexuality is very simmilar to people of a different gender. I makes me question the very foundations of sexuality and gender. If i was smarter i would write some sort of thesis on it all.. lol. As it stands i am happy that i dont feel alone in my questioning or my sexuality or my sense of self.


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## Cors (Feb 26, 2009)

mergirl said:


> What i was trying to say is that there are many different levels to being fat. If 'fat' was just a physical concept then it would only stop people doing things that they psysically were unable to do. This would make it a 'disablement' and which if you subscribe to the social model of disability would mean that in fact it was societies fault for failing to include everyone. So perhaps 'Fat' is never actually a psysical thing and is actually conceptual.
> Anyway, how come a thin person who has never been fat can not get away with saying they are fat, when a fat person who has never been thin can say they are 'a thin person trapped in a fat body' and everyone agrees?.
> Actually though..CLINICALLY....CLINICALLY..i am classed as 'obese'. This is the physical me. Though i dont subscribe to this. Physically i am thin. To me, externally.
> What i'm getting at, is that there is more to 'fat' than the physical. People who lose weight through surgery etc can still feel like a fat person. Someone with body dysmorphia might believe they are fat. Someone who i think is thin might be deemed fat in other countries, time periods, social circles.
> ...



Great post Mer! 

I have always been clinically underweight but I am considered fat where I came from. For years I was the heaviest girl in class, faced extreme bullying, was constantly put on diets by my parents and coaches who thought it would improve my performance and couldn't find clothes that fit. My experiences affected me greatly and because of this, I think I can relate to some of the emotional and social struggles a fat person faces (though I am in no way suggesting that our experiences are anywhere near the same level). It might just be my paranoia speaking, but it almost feels like one has to be above a certain size for her struggles with size discrimination to be accepted as legitimate here. 

My weight hasn't changed but I don't feel fat anymore if only because I am living in a place where I am now much smaller than average. I still get nasty comments about my body in the real world and while it is probably doesn't come close to what someone who is (clinically) fat gets, it can still be hurtful. There is nothing more I want than a society that embraces people of ALL sizes and what better place to start than a fat admiration/size acceptance site?


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## mergirl (Feb 26, 2009)

Yes. I find it interesting that geography can make the diffference between being fat and not being fat. 
I also find it interesting that when i first gained quite a bit of weight a couple of years ago i felt fat because everyone i knew commented on the fact. I think i'm about the same weight now but i feel thin because no one really says anything to me anymore, well not to the same extent. I totally think i have body dysmorphia though cause i think i'm thin if i'm hungry! lol..
The last time i weighed myself i was about 14 stones which is actually in the obese range.. Its funny because sometimes i read stuff here about people saying they are fat or someone fancying a fat chick and they are the same weight as me and i think.. hmm i'm not fat.. I dont mean that i think that in a defensive way.. as i would love to be fat ..as i am fundimentally fat on the inside!! lol.
I believe this is a valid sexuality/sense of self. I was thinking of discussing this somewhere.. i think i'm kinna hijacking this thred a bit.. sorry..
Maby, the closest i can explain it in terms of people i have met would be gainers.. though i'm not a gainer because i dont gain on purpose.. hmmm i dont know why though? Oh! well my gf isnt an Fa to begin with..
Anyway, i'm rambling now..
hmm..we need a word.. it cant be like bi 'sexual' because its not about a sexuality
it cant be like trans-gendered because its not a gender..
Edx is good at stuff like this, maby he could invent a word for us! lol
fatimental? Oh lol.. no thats not right.. i was trying to get the 'fundimental' bit in!
ok..i am really rambling now...


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## olwen (Feb 26, 2009)

mergirl said:


> What i was trying to say is that there are many different levels to being fat. If 'fat' was just a physical concept then it would only stop people doing things that they psysically were unable to do. This would make it a 'disablement' and which if you subscribe to the social model of disability would mean that in fact it was societies fault for failing to include everyone. So perhaps 'Fat' is never actually a psysical thing and is actually conceptual.
> Anyway, how come a thin person who has never been fat can not get away with saying they are fat, when a fat person who has never been thin can say they are 'a thin person trapped in a fat body' and everyone agrees?.
> Actually though..CLINICALLY....CLINICALLY..i am classed as 'obese'. This is the physical me. Though i dont subscribe to this. Physically i am thin. To me, externally.
> What i'm getting at, is that there is more to 'fat' than the physical. People who lose weight through surgery etc can still feel like a fat person. Someone with body dysmorphia might believe they are fat. Someone who i think is thin might be deemed fat in other countries, time periods, social circles.
> ...



You're touching on something that has driven me crazy for the longest time- What is fat? Where does it start? When does it start? Is it only a certain shape? Is it different for different races, ect? I have no idea what fat is when the whole thing is so subjective that someone who is clearly not fat thinks they are - and so do tons of other people. IS it only a certain feeling: like feeling fat, Is it only physical? If it's both, then in what way? What are the parameters?.....I think I've started a thread or two about this very thing....I can only say, physically, anything smaller than me is thin and anything equal or bigger is fat. As for feeling fat - I remember a thread about this. The people were saying "I feel fat when X happens or I don't feel fat when X happens," and I had to stop and think about that. I don't think I've ever said anything like that in my life. I hear other people say things like "Oh I can't believe I ate all that, I feel so fat." But that never made sense to me either....they aren't fat yet they feel fat. I just don't know what it means....Like I said, the only way it makes sense to me is in the context of sexuality, which is also something I've blogged about, but even then it was a difficult concept to convey. If you feel like a fat person trapped in a thin person's body, what then IS the definition of fatness if we remove physicality from it. What is a fat state of mind and what makes it positive and negative?....I wonder too if a gainer who is thin would have a better handle on this than I do. 

I don't actually _feel _fat even tho I identify with it, if that makes sense. I don't feel like a thin person trapped in a fat person's body either. I feel like me. I wish I could explain it better...

The whole concept of feeling fat is just strange and convoluted to me and always has been, and I suspect it always will be.


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## mergirl (Feb 26, 2009)

hey olwen and cors.. can you re post your posts on the new thred in the main board?.. I started a new thread cause this one was kinna getting derailed and what you said was great! xx Plus i need to talk about something different from fa boards and closet cases!


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## superodalisque (Feb 26, 2009)

tonynyc said:


> I have to disagree on your assumptions as to why BBW events are not advertised in the newspaper.
> 
> I don't think it's the "underground" nature - though in my opinion the BBW movement was never underground.
> 
> ...



i'm glad that things were available for you where you are. part of my perspective may come from being in the south where maybe being a BBW or a BHM is not such a big deal. 

i guess i just wish that i saw as much out there and easy to find as it is for other people. here the atlanta journal and constitution and creative loafing still has a large online and ofline readership. its where most people find events info in atlanta but i have never seen anything advertised like other people advertize their events. i hope that will change one day.

when i say kooky people showing up i'm not referring to BBWs etc but to some of the public at large that say that we are promoting an unhealthy lifestyle. every year i have gone to the vegas bash there have been protesters. those are the kooks i was thinking about. in general we are pretty orderly over all though we have our moments.


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## superodalisque (Feb 26, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> I suspect that quite a few BBWs and BHMs very rarely go out. I'm sure some of them never leave their homes. When Sandie and I lived in Colorado, we published a newsletter and ran dances for large folks and their admirers. I remember two BBWs in their 40s who came to our first dance and told us that it was the first time they had been out socially for more than ten years.
> 
> I think no one wold express anger toward these people who have let their fat shut them away from the world. Instead, they should be encouraged to come ot and join society again. Just how to do this is a subject for another thread...



of course not. i would congradulate people making thier first step. but htere are also people who know better and stay stuck where they are confortable and never venture any further. just like those people siezed the opportunity and left they're home sometimes we have to be braver and leave our SA environment. the more we are out there and showing the confidence tha SA helps us to find the more educated the rest of society will become. i think we can help people change if wwe are there and can say our piece and give folks something to think about. then folks like tho couple you mentioned might not even feel shy about going out and being social in any crownd one day. overall isn't SA kinda aiming for the day that at least most of the prejudice is broken down and people can feel comfortable anywhere?


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## superodalisque (Feb 26, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> Back in 1994 and 1995, Sandie and I published a newsletter and an dances for large people and their admirers in Colorado. We didn't advertise in the newspapers forone simple reason - we couldn't afford it. We did send out lots of press releases that resulted in a half-page article in the Pueblo _Chieftain_ that was condensed into a smaller article in the Denver _Post_'s Sunday magazine section. Ane we made two appearances on the local CBS affiliate's news programs - a five-minute segment on the 6:00 news that was so well received that they invited us back for a 30-minute segment on their 12:00 noon news program.
> 
> 
> That and word-of-mouth was the only advertising that was within our budget.



thats totally understandable. i have to say that i love that you guys were plucking away at things even back then. but since those days there ar a lot of people who run events that don't have the shoe string you guys had. they have been sucessful because they were standing on the shoulders of people like you and Sandy. i might be wrong but i still don't know of any of them advertising anywhere where the ads are accessable by the public at large. i might be wrong about that because i'm a relative newbie. if i'm right i hope they will start and give more people a chance to join us who might not even think to see if we existed.


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## Victim (Feb 27, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> i'm glad that things were available for you where you are. part of my perspective may come from being in the south where maybe being a BBW or a BHM is not such a big deal.
> 
> i guess i just wish that i saw as much out there and easy to find as it is for other people. here the atlanta journal and constitution and creative loafing still has a large online and ofline readership. its where most people find events info in atlanta but i have never seen anything advertised like other people advertize their events. i hope that will change one day.
> 
> when i say kooky people showing up i'm not referring to BBWs etc but to some of the public at large that say that we are promoting an unhealthy lifestyle. every year i have gone to the vegas bash there have been protesters. those are the kooks i was thinking about. in general we are pretty orderly over all though we have our moments.



There are protesters there?!?

I have to go now, the opportunity to put phucktards in their place cannot be resisted...


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## BellaBBW (Feb 27, 2009)

Yes, for me there is a closet. I'm out with myself and trying to come out with my family. And it's hard coming out. It's setting myself up for nasty comments from my mother who I live with and who is a or would be a SSBBW if she would accept herself and love herself as she is. My sister has always been the skinny one and my mother has always worshipped the ground her skinny but walks on. 

Don't get me wrong my sister is my favorite person in the world and right now is going thru a tough time herself. She is dealing with inlaws who treat her like shit, even tho she is the only one taking them to the doctor while the father in law is dying from leukemia and the mother is a diabetic. And I mean that, they treat her like a dog turd that is there for them to walk on and wipe off when they get tired of the stink. She is a gorgeous woman with a perfect hourglass shape (she rides horses so has thick muscular calves) which is beautiful on her she's not skinny now and she is beautiful. But she cries herself to sleep repeating "I'm a piece of crap." 

Seriously she tells herself that. We were talking earlier today and I was telling her about Dims and how other people that don't know my personality think I'm sexy and beautiful just because of the way I look...fat and gorgeous! I was telling her how our mother reacts when I say anything about how this community accepts, loves and celebrates the fat form. It drives me nuts that here I am learning to not accept my fat form but LOVE it, to celebrate it and my mother is just so nasty about it. I would kill for her to love her body. She has the worst self esteem of anybody I've ever met. And I don't know how to deal with someone I love who won't love themselvs. And if she can't love herself as a fat woman how can she love her daughters and sons who have fat rolls or tubby bellies, or big butts? 

I've had self esteem issues myself, but now realize I like and have always liked myself more than most people. But have only recently realized (since I discovered Dims) that other people find me every bit as sexy as I do. It helps to know I'm not alone. I always thought loving the fat rolls was wrong. That I should continue to "fight the good fight" and try to diet. But the truth is...Loving yourself is the key to happiness, sexiness, and beauty. Be you skinny or fat just love yourself and be open with it! 

I hope this makes sense.


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## superodalisque (Feb 27, 2009)

Victim said:


> There are protesters there?!?
> 
> I have to go now, the opportunity to put phucktards in their place cannot be resisted...



yes some every year i have been there. not generally a whole lot but some every year.


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## superodalisque (Feb 27, 2009)

it makes a lot of sense Bella


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## Victim (Mar 18, 2009)

This has made me wonder if closet FAs and 'closet' BBWs might be somewhat compatible, perhaps making the journey of 'coming out' together.


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## tony32 (Mar 20, 2009)

As a large person I have always tried to stay hidden I never really went to socials mostly. Because I thought why bother who would want to talk with me let alone date me. Ofcorse I'm just now learning that such a mind set is counter productive. But in a socity like this where being bone thin is considerd to be the ultmate beauty can you blame most BBW / BHM for staying in the colset.


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## superodalisque (Mar 21, 2009)

tony32 said:


> As a large person I have always tried to stay hidden I never really went to socials mostly. Because I thought why bother who would want to talk with me let alone date me. Ofcorse I'm just now learning that such a mind set is counter productive. But in a socity like this where being bone thin is considerd to be the ultmate beauty can you blame most BBW / BHM for staying in the colset.



no i can't blame people at all. thats why we need to be positive and support each other instead of just being more of a conduit of prejudice and fear ourselves. we need to learn how to be each other's safe place. we tend to make up more stuff in our heads more negative than other people actually think about us anyway.


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## superodalisque (Mar 21, 2009)

some stuff thats been happening on the boards lately sent me thinking about the closet again. as much as we talk about acceptance on dims when we find someone else's version of being fat offensive or embarrasssing what does it really mean? why do we try so hard to slide under the radar? sometimes i wonder if people are running so hard to try and fall outside of a social stereotype that they encourage other fat people to be closeted and steal their personal freedom away. i find it common that fat people want so much to be like thin people that they want to mimic them in every way down to having the same opinions without hardly any information except that kind that fits in with thier prejudices. the rest is not listened to. we even mimic the disrespect down to slurs and epithets in a lot of cases.

i often find myself wondering that since we are fat and understand how closed minded the rest of society can be why we have such a problem investigating our different ways of being with sensitivity. why can't we have the confidence to let all fat people have a piece of the pie? i think its mainly because deep down a lot of us like most people haven't learned to love ourselves lumps and all and we still have some serious work to do though we think we have it all together. we don't want anyone holding up a mirror that either we do or would never want to see ourselves reflected in. the way we are kind reminds me of the conflicts we had/have in the black community. field slaves were against house slaves. light skinned people had friction with dark skinned people. it happened for the same reasons. its natural for people to want to indentify with thier oppressor when they feel they are on the bottom. but the day that you truly love yourself you stop looking at everything through the eyes of the other. you stop feeling embarrassed. you can share the stage with people who you have differences with and you don't have to have it all for yourself in your way. you can see your own gifts and beauty and you don't need verification or even acceptance from someone not willing not hear you out or give you the benefit of the doubt. suddenly, you are the one being pursued because you have a culture you love and respect. you have a culture you understand is worthy of having all of its parts protected. other people can feel that.

as it relates to BBWs i wonder about things like why are BBWs so careful to hide their rolls and cellulite in clothing? why are we trying to just look like big skinny girls instead of the women we are with special places shapes and textures? why do we throw ourselves around like we aren't worth much? why do we love rolling in the dirt so much when we don't have to? why are we spending so much energy hating on each other? we have a whole lot of work to do. maybe we need to think about how to get down to business and stop just playing around with this acceptance thing. how do you think we can help people come out and be fully comfortable with who they are and who other people are at the same time?


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## Cors (Mar 21, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> as it relates to BBWs i wonder about things like why are BBWs so careful to hide their rolls and cellulite in clothing? why are we trying to just look like big skinny girls instead of the women we are with special places shapes and textures?



Just thought I'd mention that I (and quite a number of FAs) find rolls, cellulite and stretchmarks on a BBW especially beautiful.


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## superodalisque (Mar 21, 2009)

Cors said:


> Just thought I'd mention that I (and quite a number of FAs) find rolls, cellulite and stretchmarks on a BBW especially beautiful.



so do i. i like it on thin women or big women. its a part of us and our bodily history and it makes us unique. FAs do tend to love it in general but i'm no so sure about BBWs. i've never really heard a BBW say she loved it unless it was a part of her job or something like that. in general its been discussions about how they were trying to hide those traits.


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## butch (Mar 23, 2009)

I may not be a BBW, but I am a woman, and I like my fattie bits, for the most part. The parts I'm not too fond of I don't try to hide or fixate on, I just focus on the the things I like, and I do dress to accentuate the fattie bits I like. I have always dressed for me, though, and don't give much of a thought as to what other people think about my clothing in terms of aesthetics or sexuality.

I'm not thin, and I'm not interested in being thin or 'passing' for thin, so I can get frustrated sometimes with people who don't want to embrace even one positive and unique thing about being fat. But just like I'm not interested in being an assimilative queer, I still don't hate on those gays or fatties who have little to no interest in queer or fat life and culture. Different strokes for different folks, ya know?


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## Fascinita (Mar 23, 2009)

I stopped striving to hide my cellulite and stretch marks and rolls in the last several years. Where I was always conscious of not baring too much cleavage for fear of stretch marks on my breasts being noticed, I missed the full joy of dressing the way I wanted to dress, showing a bit of what nature gave me.

The feeling of repression is awful, angst-ridden. You look at yourself through the disapproving eyes of others, and it's devastating over years and years. But it's difficult to let go of this. Everywhere there are signs that fat should be hidden. It took decades, really, to get past it, in my case. It's not something that happens overnight. That should be respected.

The sheer joy that comes with not caring if my dimpled arms draw stares... I wish it on everyone.


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## prickly (Mar 24, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> I stopped striving to hide my cellulite and stretch marks and rolls in the last several years. Where I was always conscious of not baring too much cleavage for fear of stretch marks on my breasts being noticed, I missed the full joy of dressing the way I wanted to dress, showing a bit of what nature gave me.
> 
> The feeling of repression is awful, angst-ridden. You look at yourself through the disapproving eyes of others, and it's devastating over years and years. But it's difficult to let go of this. Everywhere there are signs that fat should be hidden. It took decades, really, to get past it, in my case. It's not something that happens overnight. That should be respected.
> 
> The sheer joy that comes with not caring if my dimpled arms draw stares... I wish it on everyone.



.....it saddens me always to see girls (including my gf) clearly worried about anything that shows somthing about their body they feel is not "perfect" or doens't follow the "ideal". i can't pretend to know the specifics of that repression or angst, but i can imagine how grinding it must become.

i always feel pleased and joyful when i read about, hear of , or (more rarely) see the results of someone letting go and being themselves. when i have seen this to be the case, the results are devastatingly attractive! and i mean the whole thing, not just the physical aspects that are proudly, sexily on show.


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## prickly (Mar 24, 2009)

.........for another brilliant, thought-provoking thread!


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## GutsGirl (Apr 16, 2009)

butch said:


> I may not be a BBW, but I am a woman, and I like my fattie bits, for the most part. The parts I'm not too fond of I don't try to hide or fixate on, I just focus on the the things I like, and I do dress to accentuate the fattie bits I like. I have always dressed for me, though, and don't give much of a thought as to what other people think about my clothing in terms of aesthetics or sexuality.



I'm pretty much the same way. I'm not a BBW, but I started gaining weight in puberty and have been 'overweight' since then. I have large breasts, a pudgy belly, love-handles on my hips and a very round, very prominent butt. 

For a long while I either actively hated or passively disliked my body, especially my breasts. I had always found smaller breasts more aesthetically pleasing to me and I was sad that I did not have 'perfect' breasts. I used to look at myself and wonder what man would ever find my drooping, scarred, rather downwards-pointing breasts attractive. My fat belly was simply ridiculous.

But now that I've found the FA community (through my boyfriend) I'm amazed to discover that there are men who not only accept things like stretchmarks and cellulite, but embrace them. Given that tabloids and other magazines constantly, _constantly_ push the idea that "Cellulite is ugly, a sagging rump is ugly, an 'overweight' body is ugly and should never be revealed on the beach, a pregnant body is ugly because it ruins the female form and a woman must 'get back' her body after giving birth", going into the FA community is seriously like Neo leaving the Matrix for the first time and discovering that there's a whole 'nother world out there. For me, that's a world that is completely separate from what the media deems attractive or unattractive. It's very freeing in many ways. So a lot of my self-esteem/body issues are gone.

However... now since I know my bf loves fatness on a girl, I do find myself wanting to gain just a little, and I do find myself admiring fat women that I see around college... noticing their bellies or their fat rolls, and wishing that I could gain to that much. But I think that that would be hard for me because of my feet (which are deformed with bone spurs and which are already very flat and turn out). I can't compromise my health (nor would my boyfriend ever ask me to), but yet I do find myself wanting to be the sexiest I can be for him. So again, I have some issues. However, he's assured me that he loves me for *me*, not how I look or how much I weigh. He _does_ love my body, however... especially my soft, doughy belly. :wubu:

So, not all my body issues are gone, but they are alleviated to a great degree. I take a great deal of just simple innocent pleasure in my body now. I love feeling my fat, touching it, feeling how soft it is. I feel a lot more confident about how my body looks and how I feel about it. I love my love-handles (they vie with my belly for my favorite body part) and think my hips look very feminine. So I feel great about how my body looks, overall. I may never be a BBW, but I am fine with not being thin, either.


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## joswitch (Jun 29, 2009)

edx said:


> I think that a BBW or BHM who is in the closet could also be trying not to be seen as a fat person. They might be a person who is fat, but they are adverse to being seen as one of those fat people. So they may do some things like:
> 
> - avoid eating in public,
> - do not hang around with other fat people,
> ...



Oh and let's not forget:
-Freak the hell out if they meet some guy who just happens to say during appropriate conversation "yeah I love BBWs / cute fat chicks...."
BOOOOM! see the heads explode!
Hide! as harsh invective is thrown!

Yes, this has totally happened to me as an FA...:blink:


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## joswitch (Jun 29, 2009)

GutsGirl said:


> I'm pretty much the same way. I'm not a BBW, but I started gaining weight in puberty and have been 'overweight' since then. I have large breasts, a pudgy belly, love-handles on my hips and a very round, very prominent butt.
> 
> For a long while I either actively hated or passively disliked my body, especially my breasts. I had always found smaller breasts more aesthetically pleasing to me and I was sad that I did not have 'perfect' breasts. I used to look at myself and wonder what man would ever find my drooping, scarred, rather downwards-pointing breasts attractive. My fat belly was simply ridiculous.
> 
> ...



Good for you! You go girl!
I love a happy story! *wipes a tear*
Yays!


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## mergirl (Jul 1, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> some stuff thats been happening on the boards lately sent me thinking about the closet again. as much as we talk about acceptance on dims when we find someone else's version of being fat offensive or embarrasssing what does it really mean? why do we try so hard to slide under the radar? sometimes i wonder if people are running so hard to try and fall outside of a social stereotype that they encourage other fat people to be closeted and steal their personal freedom away. i find it common that fat people want so much to be like thin people that they want to mimic them in every way down to having the same opinions without hardly any information except that kind that fits in with thier prejudices. the rest is not listened to. we even mimic the disrespect down to slurs and epithets in a lot of cases.
> 
> i often find myself wondering that since we are fat and understand how closed minded the rest of society can be why we have such a problem investigating our different ways of being with sensitivity. why can't we have the confidence to let all fat people have a piece of the pie? i think its mainly because deep down a lot of us like most people haven't learned to love ourselves lumps and all and we still have some serious work to do though we think we have it all together. we don't want anyone holding up a mirror that either we do or would never want to see ourselves reflected in. the way we are kind reminds me of the conflicts we had/have in the black community. field slaves were against house slaves. light skinned people had friction with dark skinned people. it happened for the same reasons. its natural for people to want to indentify with thier oppressor when they feel they are on the bottom. but the day that you truly love yourself you stop looking at everything through the eyes of the other. you stop feeling embarrassed. you can share the stage with people who you have differences with and you don't have to have it all for yourself in your way. you can see your own gifts and beauty and you don't need verification or even acceptance from someone not willing not hear you out or give you the benefit of the doubt. suddenly, you are the one being pursued because you have a culture you love and respect. you have a culture you understand is worthy of having all of its parts protected. other people can feel that.
> 
> as it relates to BBWs i wonder about things like why are BBWs so careful to hide their rolls and cellulite in clothing? why are we trying to just look like big skinny girls instead of the women we are with special places shapes and textures? why do we throw ourselves around like we aren't worth much? why do we love rolling in the dirt so much when we don't have to? why are we spending so much energy hating on each other? we have a whole lot of work to do. maybe we need to think about how to get down to business and stop just playing around with this acceptance thing. how do you think we can help people come out and be fully comfortable with who they are and who other people are at the same time?


This is brilliant. We need to discuss this more i know. I think its difficult though..
You cut through shit like a dog with its head in the litter tray missus!!!


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## katherine22 (Jul 1, 2009)

mergirl said:


> This is brilliant. We need to discuss this more i know. I think its difficult though..
> You cut through shit like a dog with its head in the litter tray missus!!!



Women fat or thin are taught to hate themselves by the culture. You have 15 minutes before your sell by date expires. We live in a country where the majority of the people think that God is a male. As women we have been taught to have value by how we are apprehended by another, preferably a male. Perhaps the all women forum at Dims will contribute to consciousness raising.


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## katherine22 (Jul 1, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> I stopped striving to hide my cellulite and stretch marks and rolls in the last several years. Where I was always conscious of not baring too much cleavage for fear of stretch marks on my breasts being noticed, I missed the full joy of dressing the way I wanted to dress, showing a bit of what nature gave me.
> 
> The feeling of repression is awful, angst-ridden. You look at yourself through the disapproving eyes of others, and it's devastating over years and years. But it's difficult to let go of this. Everywhere there are signs that fat should be hidden. It took decades, really, to get past it, in my case. It's not something that happens overnight. That should be respected.
> 
> The sheer joy that comes with not caring if my dimpled arms draw stares... I wish it on everyone.




It is so freeing. Once I accepted my body I had to change my entire wardrobe. All my old clothes were baggy and boxy. I never knew I had beautiful legs because I always wore long skirts. I do not dress to hide-I dress to accentuate, and I enjoy the reaction of people whom I haven't seen for awhile say "something has changed about you." The next barrier I am confronting is age. Some fucking medical literature suggested that women after 50 years old are not sexual. BULL SHIT MEDICAL COMMUNITY! When you finally accept yourself - your repressed sexuality emerges like a "steaming cauldron."


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## comaseason (Jul 6, 2009)

I do believe there is a closet for BBWs, having just recently come out of it. I do believe that I was taught, unknowingly to hate my physical body for what it had become and more importantly what I was taught that said about me as a person. That I was somehow less of a person than someone else.

I spent years hiding at home trying to figure out how I had gotten to where I was. Where did I fail? What could I improve upon? Am I really lazy and undisciplined? These are not questions that are unique to being fat, but my fatness was the source of my personal angst.

There are still things that I have a hard time doing. Purchasing groceries from an actual live cashier. Wearing skirts and dresses. Going to a gym to exercise (which I do enjoy to do). Setting foot into a Krispy Kreme (which my friend has dubbed Donutphobia).

But I am changing. I'm learning that I'm beautiful. It's taking time, and I don't have a whole lot of support from my family - but I'm getting there. I recently threw out a lot of my baggy clothes and bought ones that show my shape. Since it is summer I'm wearing more of what has in the past been my nemesis - the sleeveless shirt.

Those of us still in the closet or struggling to come out - there's a lot of inspiration to be gained from gay people I've found. My best friends are both lesbians who were both closeted at one time. They've been invaluable for me learning to be proud of who I am.

I've found this thread very interesting. Thanks all for sharing!


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