# How do you feel about skinny advocates of size acceptance?



## Britannia (Feb 28, 2008)

Just an open forum. Do you think it would be hypocritical for, say, a thin model who has never had weight problems to advocate size acceptance? Or any other thoughts you may have on just the general idea.

P.S.

By size acceptance, I mean the idea that you shouldn't judge people based on their size, and that all sizes are beautiful.


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## Wagimawr (Feb 28, 2008)

Needs to happen more, honestly.

Every size is beautiful to SOMEONE and that needs to be advocated as often as possible by EVERYONE, regardless of their own size.


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## Chimpi (Feb 28, 2008)

*Do you think it would be hypocritical for, say, a thin model who has never had weight problems to advocate size acceptance?* 'Thin' is a size, just as large is. They have ideas, suggestions, views, and opinions, just like all other size people do. They have their own thoughts about acceptance just as most people do. I believe they have every right to believe in Size Acceptance (the size acceptance that we all here on Dimensions agree on) and be an advocate for it as everyone else does. In fact, I think that it might turn a few more heads were there to be more thin people supporting and advocating Size Acceptance.

I can't offer up any support for how often fat people get ignored or overlooked, but I am sure most of us here have experienced that and known that it was mostly, mainly, or completely due to our size. I believe that when it comes to certain people, only a thin person might be able to get a message through their thick skulls, whereas a fatter person will just be shrugged off and prejudged wrongly.

I support anyone for Size Acceptance. Isn't that what Size Acceptance is about?


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## FaxMachine1234 (Feb 28, 2008)

No, I don't think you have to "walk the walk to talk the talk", so to speak. Good question though.


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## 1300 Class (Feb 28, 2008)

Interesting question, don't think its hypocritical of "them" to take a positive stance towards "this" issue. Bilaterial support is a good thing.


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## Adrian (Feb 28, 2008)

Britannia said:


> Do you think it would be hypocritical for, say, a thin model who has never had weight problems to advocate size acceptance? Or any other thoughts you may have on just the general idea.


I have always been an advocate and FA for BBW's, even before the term BBW. Until age thirty-one I was underweight, a skinny guy at 6'-½" and weighed only 145 pounds!
I was so unhappy being underweight, I went on a "candy bar diet", to gain weight! After three months my weight went up to one hundred and eighty-five pounds, with many positive unexpected aspects.
Whether underweight, at the medical community's idea of a good weight or, now a little overweight at two hundred and fifth-teen pounds, I feel my advocacy is legitimate.

Adrian


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## Friday (Feb 28, 2008)

Promoting size acceptance means ALL sizes. So people of all sizes should be promoting that people of all sizes are good. Not going to do much good if ONLY fatties are on board, mainstream society would just see it as self interest. People of all sizes and shapes need to be involved just as people of all races need to be involved in the push for racial equality. A person shouldn't be picked on for the color of their skin, the size of their butt, the church they go to, who they sleep with, or any other thing that makes them different than the person next to them.


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## Jon Blaze (Feb 28, 2008)

Friday said:


> Promoting size acceptance means ALL sizes. So people of all sizes should be promoting that people of all sizes are good. Not going to do much good if ONLY fatties are on board, mainstream society would just see it as self interest. People of all sizes and shapes need to be involved just as people of all races need to be involved in the push for racial equality. A person shouldn't be picked on for the color of their skin, the size of their butt, the church they go to, who they sleep with, or any other thing that makes them different than the person next to them.



Agreed.

That thin model may never have "Weight Problems" in either direction (Maybe...), but any model that doesn't have any moments of negative body image related to weight (Or the perception of) is one in a million.

As said: It's for everyone. It's for people of all backgrounds to be accepted by people of all backgrounds. Body autonomy, and equality for all.

There are times when there's a sort of "Special interest" if you will, when it comes to things advocated by Fat or Size Acceptance organzations, but most of the time it's an attempt to "Break the chains" for anyone that is discriminated against. I'm yet to see someone jump for joy for those skinny model bans in the fatosphere. *Laughs*  

We can't speak for individuals, and society has a skewed perception of it, but it's not a standard "Anti-thinness" ring. 

Can I ask you a question:

Is this about you?


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## Spanky (Feb 28, 2008)

Remember that this "thin" thing has been big now for about 80 years?? The "full figured" thing reigned for a long time before. 

Fat was a sign of wealth and success. Thin was a sign of hard labor and sickliness. Then things changed here in the Roaring 20s when sport, exercise and TIME especially came in more supply.


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## TraciJo67 (Feb 28, 2008)

Spanky said:


> Remember that this "thin" thing has been big now for about 80 years?? The "full figured" thing reigned for a long time before.
> 
> Fat was a sign of wealth and success. Thin was a sign of hard labor and sickliness. Then things changed here in the Roaring 20s when sport, exercise and TIME especially came in more supply.



55K to go? 

What's that all about, man?

Where's the Fritos and the remote control in your house? 

Brit -- a serious response to your question: I think that anyone with a conscience can and should advocate for tolerance and acceptance of others ... and that can be a very small & non-dramatic thing, like just refusing to listen to or participate in "jokes" that rely on marginalizing others for humorous effect. 

Why would someone have to be fat to understand how wrong it is to stereotype and/or discriminate against others based on the size of their bodies?


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## Jes (Feb 28, 2008)

Spanky said:


> Remember that this "thin" thing has been big now for about 80 years?? The "full figured" thing reigned for a long time before.
> 
> Fat was a sign of wealth and success. Thin was a sign of hard labor and sickliness. Then things changed here in the Roaring 20s when sport, exercise and TIME especially came in more supply.



Plumpness was a sign of wealth and leisure. Save for a few cultures, and moreso the iconography (but not reality--sort of like how we have cartoons of chicks with 16 inch waists and 4000 inch boobs?) of those cultures, fat has never really been it. I think we have to finally face facts here, yes, even at Dims.


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## Miss Vickie (Feb 28, 2008)

Friday said:


> Promoting size acceptance means ALL sizes. So people of all sizes should be promoting that people of all sizes are good. Not going to do much good if ONLY fatties are on board, mainstream society would just see it as self interest. People of all sizes and shapes need to be involved just as people of all races need to be involved in the push for racial equality. A person shouldn't be picked on for the color of their skin, the size of their butt, the church they go to, who they sleep with, or any other thing that makes them different than the person next to them.



Just so. Plus, is it hypocritical for men to support women's rights? For whites to support racial equality? For those of us whose families have lived in the US for generations to support treating undocumented workers with dignity?

To me it's the same thing. I'm glad to have as many people on board with a voice as we can get. Frankly I don't care what their body size is -- I accept them just the way they are.


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## Britannia (Feb 28, 2008)

Jon Blaze said:


> Can I ask you a question:
> 
> Is this about you?



Actually, yes. The auditions for Top Model are next month, and I feel very strongly about the size acceptance movement. If I do end up being selected, I'm sure there will be moments in the House where girls hurl fat-related insults (like Bianca last season: "You're borderline plus size... go look at your thighs!") and while I already know that I won't be tolerant of such bullshit, I wanted to discuss this with everyone here before really using my possible position to advocate size acceptance. I just don't want to make any faux pas, and having everyone else's opinions always helps.

Thank you guys for your input so far


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## Spanky (Feb 28, 2008)

Jes said:


> Plumpness was a sign of wealth and leisure. Save for a few cultures, and moreso the iconography (but not reality--sort of like how we have cartoons of chicks with 16 inch waists and 4000 inch boobs?) of those cultures, fat has never really been it. I think we have to finally face facts here, yes, even at Dims.



I purposely use "full figured" since SSBBW probably has not been accepted in much of society through history. But many/most of the women here would have been looked upon differently, maybe judged differently than a century ago.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Feb 28, 2008)

I think you would be a wonderful advocate for size acceptance - especially being what society sees as the preferred body type. 

I wish you luck in your bid to be on Top Model and hope you get the chance to kick some ass on the show! LOL




Britannia said:


> Actually, yes. The auditions for Top Model are next month, and I feel very strongly about the size acceptance movement. If I do end up being selected, I'm sure there will be moments in the House where girls hurl fat-related insults (like Bianca last season: "You're borderline plus size... go look at your thighs!") and while I already know that I won't be tolerant of such bullshit, I wanted to discuss this with everyone here before really using my possible position to advocate size acceptance. I just don't want to make any faux pas, and having everyone else's opinions always helps.
> 
> Thank you guys for your input so far


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## Jon Blaze (Feb 28, 2008)

Britannia said:


> Actually, yes. The auditions for Top Model are next month, and I feel very strongly about the size acceptance movement. If I do end up being selected, I'm sure there will be moments in the House where girls hurl fat-related insults (like Bianca last season: "You're borderline plus size... go look at your thighs!") and while I already know that I won't be tolerant of such bullshit, I wanted to discuss this with everyone here before really using my possible position to advocate size acceptance. I just don't want to make any faux pas, and having everyone else's opinions always helps.
> 
> Thank you guys for your input so far



Then HOT DAMN!! If you reach success with your modeling and advocation, then NAAFA going to be bowing to your skills!! 
If I could do the same thing with my fitness and martial arts aspirations (With a little HAES flavor in the middle ), I would be a happy man. 

Good luck! :bow:


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## Jon Blaze (Feb 28, 2008)

Spanky said:


> I purposely use "full figured" since SSBBW probably has not been accepted in much of society through history. But many/most of the women here would have been looked upon differently, maybe judged differently than a century ago.



Agreed, and realistically most cultures through history thought of it as a sign of at least wealth and prosperity. To really go deep with the sexuality and fertility side of it (Even though extra subcutaneous fat to some degree is a secondary sexual characteristic of women), some did and some don't. You'd have to analyze culutre by culture really (South America versus Europe for example), and there's a few left that still think more = more. 

I think it's pretty far fetched to say a figure like the Venus of Willendorf was concieved randomnly, unlike the Greeks and Roman who illustrated images of their gods and goddesses out of human molds like themselves. Somebody saw something in that bodytype... *Laughs*


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 28, 2008)

I'd have to say that part of it depends both on your mindset and how you present whatever ideas you have.

Allies in any civil rights movement are important. OTOH, i'd say you still need a sensitivity and awareness that you have not walked in somebody else's shoes. Before I started reading Dims I thought of "fat" as "bigger size than i wished i was." I never thought about worrying over fitting into airline seats or needing a seat belt extender in a car; those things were just never part of my personal experience. Same as a parent of a heterosexual will never have right wingers picket their child's funeral and a white person won't be called "******". I personally support gay rights, but i'm totally aware that i will always be able to walk down any street in America with a person to whom i am sexually attracted and never have rocks thrown at me. Not the same for a homosexual person.

I guess what i'm saying is that while you're being an advocate, have an awareness of who you are and how you look and how you behave as you carry that message.


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## butch (Feb 28, 2008)

Jon Blaze said:


> Agreed, and realistically most cultures through history thought of it as a sign of at least wealth and prosperity. To really go deep with the sexuality and fertility side of it (Even though extra subcutaneous fat to some degree is a secondary sexual characteristic of women), some did and some don't. You'd have to analyze culutre by culture really (South America versus Europe for example), and there's a few left that still think more = more.
> 
> I think it's pretty far fetched to say a figure like the Venus of Willendorf was concieved randomnly, unlike the Greeks and Roman who illustrated images of their gods and goddesses out of human molds like themselves. Somebody saw something in that bodytype... *Laughs*



To jump on what Jes said and what you said, Jon, I think we need to understand that the definition of 'fat' is not constant accross history. The women we look at now from earlier centuries were not considered 'fat' in the way we utilize the adjective today, and so I don't think we can ever claim that there was some earlier period when 'fat' people were valued in Western culture. What we classify as 'fat' today, thanks to the BMI and cultural dictates, was not at all what 'fat' was for earlier times.

Seriously, look at the diet industry in the 19th century. There were all kinds of crazy schemes to get people skinny, even as the women who epitomized beauty often weighed close to 200 pounds. And there are records throughout the 1700's and 1800's of fat people being put on display or sent around in touring freak show exhibits because there indeed was a lack of acceptance of 'fat' people, its just that the definitions of what consitutued fat were different back then.

Finally, no one knows exactly why the Venus of Willendorf figures were made, but since most ascribe a fertility function to them, we should be careful about assuming they say anything about what paleolithic people valued in terms of body size. It doesn't mean that the paleolithic people desired fat women or wanted their women to be fat or thought fat was hunky dory, it just means that the image of a fat woman had some symbolic significance to them. Just like today, many of us value the image of Santa Claus and imbue it with all sorts of significance, but that doesn't correspond to us liking and/or wanting and/or thinking it would be groovy if all the men in western societies today were fat.

But yeah, size acceptance rocks for every body, thin, fat, in between, old, disabled, etc. Good luck with the Top Model try outs, Britannia.


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## Jes (Feb 28, 2008)

Spanky said:


> I purposely use "full figured" since SSBBW probably has not been accepted in much of society through history. But many/most of the women here would have been looked upon differently, maybe judged differently than a century ago.



perhaps.

but have you read the literature? personal letters? diaries? fiction of the period? there is no shortage of women being referred to as fat, and that fat being a bad thing. And I don't mean a case here and there when someone is spiteful. No. There was just the same sense of what was 'beyond the pale' and that wasn't particularly fat. Plumpness was probably... what we think of as thick, or even less than that. And it had to do with youthfulness, as well, so may not even have correlated much to weight. It was a round pink cheek and sparkling eyes, not thighs. And this goes for just about every single thing I've read (I do material culture, personal narratives, prescriptive literature...the historical vernacular, in other words).


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## Jes (Feb 28, 2008)

butch said:


> To jump on what Jes said and what you said, Jon, I think we need to understand that the definition of 'fat' is not constant accross history. The women we look at now from earlier centuries were not considered 'fat' in the way we utilize the adjective today, and so I don't think we can ever claim that there was some earlier period when 'fat' people were valued in Western culture. What we classify as 'fat' today, thanks to the BMI and cultural dictates, was not at all what 'fat' was for earlier times.
> 
> Seriously, look at the diet industry in the 19th century. There were all kinds of crazy schemes to get people skinny, even as the women who epitomized beauty often weighed close to 200 pounds. And there are records throughout the 1700's and 1800's of fat people being put on display or sent around in touring freak show exhibits because there indeed was a lack of acceptance of 'fat' people, its just that the definitions of what consitutued fat were different back then.
> 
> ...



right. Like anime--tiny waists, giant breasts. In 300 years, will people think those drawings are actual portraits? or that if such a woman walked the earth, she'd be the epitome of beauty and health? No.

For every ode to plumpness I've found in Victorian (in america as well) literature, I've mostly also seen the next line which read: but it was the sort of plumpness that could easily turn to fat if she wasn't careful. Or: it was the type of plumpness that would later turn to fat and rob her of her beauty. It was a very fine line. And when you crossed over, that was it. It was all downhill. And I've found that in 18th c and 17th c. literature too. My god, the wife of Bath! She's fat, and lusty (hello, gap-tooth) and goes through husbands, but is she written about in a positive light? Is anyone talking about her beauty? Is anyone holding her up as beautiful or iconic, or are they just saying: dang, she's lusty and her thighs can kill a man b/c she's going through husbands like a hot knife through butter.


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## Jon Blaze (Feb 28, 2008)

butch said:


> To jump on what Jes said and what you said, Jon, I think we need to understand that the definition of 'fat' is not constant accross history. The women we look at now from earlier centuries were not considered 'fat' in the way we utilize the adjective today, and so I don't think we can ever claim that there was some earlier period when 'fat' people were valued in Western culture. What we classify as 'fat' today, thanks to the BMI and cultural dictates, was not at all what 'fat' was for earlier times.
> 
> Seriously, look at the diet industry in the 19th century. There were all kinds of crazy schemes to get people skinny, even as the women who epitomized beauty often weighed close to 200 pounds. And there are records throughout the 1700's and 1800's of fat people being put on display or sent around in touring freak show exhibits because there indeed was a lack of acceptance of 'fat' people, its just that the definitions of what consitutued fat were different back then.
> 
> ...



That's kind of what I meant. We can't really know who is who, because through history, it's inconsistent through cultures as to what constitutes "Fat," what that symoblizes, and what it meant at the time. That's why I said it would have to be a case-by-case thing, rather than being black or white about it.

As Spanky said (And to an extent to what you said) - Minus some exceptions, we have to be careful with our terms, and the numbers we put on them. I know that the circus ladies were considered freak shows in those times, but that can't be said for each and every specific culture of that time period. Our cultural differences today are still prominent, and in some cases concrete, but I would think with a lack of frequent travels and mixing going on, that at least some of the cultures through the past would value it in some way. As you've said: The social stigmatization is a big reason it is seen so negatively today, rather than hardwired genes, or our supposed natural affinity to thin people. (I'm not trying to say it goes either direction [Thin or Fat] there...)

But, as I said before: There's also some that would, and probably still rebuke it (Or find it appaling when it gets to a certain degree). I'm not trying to establish it as a standard of attractiveness realistically with numbers, but again as Spanky said: It is likely that a higher percentage of our culture would generally treat larger women differently at that time. I honestly think things would be much different without the stigma. 

(There should be studies done like that: An area without the stigma [Or any objective attempt at viewing a trait such as weight], versus an area with the stigma, and the perceptions that come up in the end.)

I guess I'm just trying to say it breaks even. We can't prove cause and effect either way.

Really, the only reason I used the Venus of Willendorf as an example was because what Jes said reminded me of an argument about thin women being the standard awhile ago. The person said that the Venus of Willendorf was an ideal, unrealistic, figure, and then I replied saying (Verbatim): "How the hell is that possible? Did someone one day just imagine that figure out of nowhere, with nothing to work with, more than 25000 years ago!?!?!?" "HMMMM.. There's something about that figure, that... ohh... I don't know."


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## Jack Skellington (Feb 28, 2008)

Britannia said:


> By size acceptance, I mean the idea that you shouldn't judge people based on their size, and that all sizes are beautiful.



I don't think size acceptance is just about being pro-fat or anti-thin. It's not to me anyway. It's about being respectful of people of a variety of shapes and sizes.


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## Tina (Feb 28, 2008)

Brit, I agree with Vickie and LovesBHMs. It's necessary for any movement to have allies, but also allies who understand the fight well, and who are sensitive to it. I do not consider Tyra Banks telling people to kiss her fat ass to be advocating for fat or size acceptance. Some might; I do not. So, also know that you will have critics no matter what you do anyway, eh? Good luck to you. 


Jes said:


> perhaps.
> 
> but have you read the literature? personal letters? diaries? fiction of the period? there is no shortage of women being referred to as fat, and that fat being a bad thing. And I don't mean a case here and there when someone is spiteful. No. There was just the same sense of what was 'beyond the pale' and that wasn't particularly fat. Plumpness was probably... what we think of as thick, or even less than that. And it had to do with youthfulness, as well, so may not even have correlated much to weight. It was a round pink cheek and sparkling eyes, not thighs. And this goes for just about every single thing I've read (I do material culture, personal narratives, prescriptive literature...the historical vernacular, in other words).


I really think these posts are bringing the thread off topic and in a very negative way -- not even a fun or silly way. Should we just roll over and die now? Or maybe all go under the knife, because you believe that through the ages us fat people have been the objects of disgust and hatred because you've read literature?

I prefer to not wallow in that and to keep a more positive outlook. It's fact that some cultures have, and still do (thought Westernization has been changing it to a degree) admire the fat form. But ultimately, I must say, "who gives a shit?" I live my life and don't get caught up in that negativity. It serves no one.


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## Jes (Feb 28, 2008)

Tina said:


> Brit, I agree with Vickie and LovesBHMs. It's necessary for any movement to have allies, but also allies who understand the fight well, and who are sensitive to it. I do not consider Tyra Banks telling people to kiss her fat ass to be advocating for fat or size acceptance. Some might; I do not. So, also know that you will have critics no matter what you do anyway, eh? Good luck to you.
> 
> I really think these posts are bringing the thread off topic and in a very negative way -- not even a fun or silly way. Should we just roll over and die now? Or maybe all go under the knife, because you believe that through the ages us fat people have been the objects of disgust and hatred because you've read literature?
> 
> I prefer to not wallow in that and to keep a more positive outlook. It's fact that some cultures have, and still do (thought Westernization has been changing it to a degree) admire the fat form. But ultimately, I must say, "who gives a shit?" I live my life and don't get caught up in that negativity. It serves no one.



No. We don't give up and die b/c we're fat. And this doesn't belong in the OP's thread on being a Teen Model but someone (Spanky?) started down the road, and I think Butch and I rocked it academic style because I know I read a lot of 'it used to be good to be fat!' stuff that is just plain not true. It's just not true. I think if we want to talk about fat historically, we probably want to do it accurately. Historical fact shouldn't mean we should keep going in that direction. Look at the Civil Rights Movement. But it's wrong to say Jim Crow wasn't all that bad or to ignore the truth. Or to not know the truth, which is a better way of expressing it.

I'm sure we'll have ample opportunity to do that in another place in the near future. SORRY OP. GOOD LUCK ON TV.


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## Jon Blaze (Feb 28, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> I'd have to say that part of it depends both on your mindset and how you present whatever ideas you have.
> 
> Allies in any civil rights movement are important. OTOH, i'd say you still need a sensitivity and awareness that you have not walked in somebody else's shoes. Before I started reading Dims I thought of "fat" as "bigger size than i wished i was." I never thought about worrying over fitting into airline seats or needing a seat belt extender in a car; those things were just never part of my personal experience. Same as a parent of a heterosexual will never have right wingers picket their child's funeral and a white person won't be called "******". I personally support gay rights, but i'm totally aware that i will always be able to walk down any street in America with a person to whom i am sexually attracted and never have rocks thrown at me. Not the same for a homosexual person.
> 
> I guess what i'm saying is that while you're being an advocate, have an awareness of who you are and how you look and how you behave as you carry that message.



That, as well as Tina's (And thank you for the reps :bow is a very good point.

Tina's comment about Tyra is a WONDERFUL example. We realize she was angry, but she could have done that a different way completely ("If any of you have ever discriminated against someone because of their size: You can shove it up your weight bigoted MANGINA!!" ) . A neutral road would have been more fitting.

I don't know of Brit's experiences, but people that may otherwise be seen as "Allies" can sometimes bring their experiences to the table, but comparisons aren't always a smart thing.


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## butch (Feb 28, 2008)

Tina said:


> Brit, I agree with Vickie and LovesBHMs. It's necessary for any movement to have allies, but also allies who understand the fight well, and who are sensitive to it. I do not consider Tyra Banks telling people to kiss her fat ass to be advocating for fat or size acceptance. Some might; I do not. So, also know that you will have critics no matter what you do anyway, eh? Good luck to you.
> 
> I really think these posts are bringing the thread off topic and in a very negative way -- not even a fun or silly way. Should we just roll over and die now? Or maybe all go under the knife, because you believe that through the ages us fat people have been the objects of disgust and hatred because you've read literature?
> 
> I prefer to not wallow in that and to keep a more positive outlook. It's fact that some cultures have, and still do (thought Westernization has been changing it to a degree) admire the fat form. But ultimately, I must say, "who gives a shit?" I live my life and don't get caught up in that negativity. It serves no one.



Tina, I appreciate your comments, but as jes said, it isn't that we're trying to be negative at all. I almost wrote in one of my earlier posts about the fact that other cultures would be more useful comparisions (which is why I stressed Western culture in my posts), but the overall point jes and I are trying to make is, it can be a limitation to fixate on other times or other places as being more fat positive when that might keep someone from advocating for their own time and place to be more fat accepting.

And that, to me, isn't negative at all. Its about knowing the enemy and being able to formulate effective strategies today to make life for all fat people more positive. Its like that quote about people who forget the past are doomed to repeat it. If we don't know exactly what the discourses were about fat in the past, and/or in other cultures, then we won't be able to counter those negative discourses with new ones that benefit all people, fat or thin, because we can then escape the 'tyranny of slenderness.'


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## Spanky (Feb 28, 2008)

Tina said:


> I really think these posts are bringing the thread off topic and in a very negative way -- not even a fun or silly way. Should we just roll over and die now? Or maybe all go under the knife, because you believe that through the ages us fat people have been the objects of disgust and hatred because you've read literature?
> 
> I prefer to not wallow in that and to keep a more positive outlook. It's fact that some cultures have, and still do (thought Westernization has been changing it to a degree) admire the fat form. But ultimately, I must say, "who gives a shit?" I live my life and don't get caught up in that negativity. It serves no one.



Tina, I did not mean to divert the thread. The poster mentioned OPEN FORUM so I made a comment (opinion as it may have been). There was no sinister plan behind it, I assure you. There was disagreement with my general idea about fat today and in history. I never wanted it to move into that discussion but if anyone thinks I am wrong (uninformed and stupid maybe) that is their right to argue. But I will not respond further. 

I think it safe to say that Britannia would not be an ideal body type in Victorian times. I will leave it at that. Today, for models, she is the perfect body type and I wish her all luck and success in Top Model.


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## bexy (Feb 28, 2008)

*i dont think you need to be fat to promote size acceptance.

i'm not gay, but work with gay and lesbian teens, attend and promote gay pride and am a true advocate of gay rights...


however i dont agree that a thin person who actively diets and wants to lose weight or worries over gaining could be a true advocate.*


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## stan_der_man (Feb 28, 2008)

Britannia said:


> Just an open forum. Do you think it would be hypocritical for, say, a thin model who has never had weight problems to advocate size acceptance? Or any other thoughts you may have on just the general idea.
> 
> P.S.
> 
> By size acceptance, I mean the idea that you shouldn't judge people based on their size, and that all sizes are beautiful.



Clearly, anybody who advocates fat acceptance (or size acceptance) would be a positive force in promotion. But a thin advocate for fat acceptance is like a white guy wanting to be leader of the Black Panthers. Not only is there an issue of fully understanding the situation, which someone who is an "outsider" is very likely capable of doing, there is simply an image issue, especially if that person rises to a level of leadership in an advocacy group. That person will be appreciated but will probably never be considered "one of us".

Most importantly the "outsider advocate" needs to understand the movement and know the terminology. For example, there is a difference between "fat acceptance" and "size acceptance". Being a thin person advocating fat or size acceptance and potentially being in a public position, the folks in the different camps of fat and size acceptance will take pot shots at you if you don't appear to know the cause in fine detail. Be prepared for ridicule, but know in your heart that for each person that criticizes you there are at least ten who appreciate the message and are glad somebody is saying something


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## Spanky (Feb 28, 2008)

fa_man_stan said:


> Clearly anybody who advocates fat acceptance (or size acceptance) would be a positive force in promotion. But a thin advocate for fat acceptance is like a white guy wanting to be leader of the Black Panthers. Not only is there an issue of fully understanding the situation, which someone who is an "outsider" is probably capable of doing, there is simply an image issue, especially if that person rises to a level of leadership in an advocacy group. That person will be appreciated but will probably never be considered "one of us".
> 
> Most importantly the "outsider advocate" needs to understand the movement and know the terminology. For example, there is a difference between "fat acceptance" and "size acceptance". Being a thin person advocating fat or size acceptance and potentially being in a public position, the folks in the different camps of fat and size acceptance will take pot shots at you if you don't appear to know the cause in fine detail. Be prepared for ridicule, but know in your heart that for each person that criticizes you there are at least ten who appreciate the message and are glad somebody is saying something



Just for the record, and I mean the Miami Ink record. Did I tell you that you have lived the example?? Maybe Britannia doesn't know where you appeared and what you did?? 

Britannia, Stan did in a few minutes on Miami Ink for FAs and BBW than most of us (writer included) will never be able to do. I bet he took some ribbing, I heard you did on E! (I won't watch the damn show just hearing about that).

So Stan would be a perfect example in the flesh of JUST what you are talking.


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## Tina (Feb 28, 2008)

Spanky said:


> Tina, I did not mean to divert the thread. The poster mentioned OPEN FORUM so I made a comment (opinion as it may have been). There was no sinister plan behind it, I assure you. There was disagreement with my general idea about fat today and in history. I never wanted it to move into that discussion but if anyone thinks I am wrong (uninformed and stupid maybe) that is their right to argue. But I will not respond further.
> 
> I think it safe to say that Britannia would not be an ideal body type in Victorian times. I will leave it at that. Today, for models, she is the perfect body type and I wish her all luck and success in Top Model.


Spanky, I didn't feel that you had any sinister plan or anything. Have you ever been sinister? I'm thinking, no.


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## stan_der_man (Feb 28, 2008)

... and I'd do it again in a second if I could. Here is the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYWGy2ueBxE


I must say that I was absolutely amazed at the amount of support I received. I didn't actually see the ridicule given to me (and my wife) on "The Soup" show, but the people I know who saw the show were all supportive of me. I have come to the conclusion (from seeing other people's experiences...) that I'm a better advocate for FAs than I would be for fat people. There are many very articulate and wonderful fat people who (for the exact stated reasons in my last post...) would make better advocates than I (a relatively skinny male...) so I think my time is better spent just advocating fat appreciation from a FA stand point, and supporting fat acceptance in a more passive way.



Britannia said:


> Actually, yes. The auditions for Top Model are next month, and I feel very strongly about the size acceptance movement. If I do end up being selected, I'm sure there will be moments in the House where girls hurl fat-related insults (like Bianca last season: "You're borderline plus size... go look at your thighs!") and while I already know that I won't be tolerant of such bullshit, I wanted to discuss this with everyone here before really using my possible position to advocate size acceptance. I just don't want to make any faux pas, and having everyone else's opinions always helps.
> 
> Thank you guys for your input so far



Britannia, if you do get onto the show, be aware that you will basically be at the mercy of what the producers want to happen on the show. You may very well never get the opportunity to make any sort of advocacy and if you do, it may get edited out. Deidra and I were lucky that the producers on Miami Ink were supportive of fat acceptance and let us (for the most part) have free reign in discussing the topic. Hopefully the producers of the show you potentially may be on are as supportive, I think the message is fat acceptance is starting to permeate society, Hollywood producers included.


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## stan_der_man (Feb 28, 2008)

Tina said:


> Spanky, I didn't feel that you had any sinister plan or anything. Have you ever been sinister? I'm thinking, no.



Tina, I've said this to you many times but I'll say it again. You are a wonderful, beautiful and forgiving person... and Spanky, you are a good guy with agreat sense of humour (that's how you have to spell it in Ca. now.. you know that Tina...? "humour" not humor... Us Americans are much more efficient... saves on toner in teh long run... )
Anyhoo...


Group hug! 

*Stan reaches out to hug Tina and Spanky*











Hey Spanky, move over! Gimme a bit more of Tina already... sheesh!


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## Tina (Feb 28, 2008)

Yum! A Stan and Spanky sammich? I'm all for it. 

Thank you so much, Stan. Colour (gotta adopt that wonky spelling eh? ) me grateful for the good guys (of which there are so many here). :wubu:


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Feb 28, 2008)

Brit, it boils down to this: Any movement is stronger with more people. Caring about a number of sociopolitical issues, the main requirement seems to be knowing what you're talking about.

If you feel out of place, immerse yourself in knowledge about key issues like fat representation the media, accomodation in clothing, seating, medical care. Knowing there's beauty in all bodies is great, but the more education on this, the more easily you'll convince others.


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## Tad (Feb 28, 2008)

Personally I think that a thin person advocating size acceptance is not only fine, but critical for broader acceptance of the concept. Simply put, when a fat person advocates size acceptance, a lot of people will be thinking "Well, of course she/he wants us to accept fat people--he/she would benefit, since she/he is fat!" (and possibly tacking onto the end of it "and too lazy to lose weight."

When thin person advocates for it, there is not that same implied self-serving motive. So at least some more people may be inclined to listen. Once they are listening, maybe fat spokespeople can state their case, but I think having some thin people opening ears would be very valuable.

Now, that is just what I expect, I'm not sociologist, have never studied how such ideas propagate through populations, etc. Just my gut instinct.

-Ed


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## T_Devil (Feb 28, 2008)

Britannia said:


> Just an open forum. Do you think it would be hypocritical for, say, a thin model who has never had weight problems to advocate size acceptance? Or any other thoughts you may have on just the general idea.
> 
> P.S.
> 
> By size acceptance, I mean the idea that you shouldn't judge people based on their size, and that all sizes are beautiful.



I don't have a problem with it. A lot of Skinny people are nice. Some of the meanest people I know are fat, so there are all kinds. Size doesn't make a person what they are, it's their charicter that makes them what they are, that's why it's called "charicter".

I'm not going to tell a skinny person they have no right to have an opinion about size acceptance because of their own size.... good or bad. People feel how they want to feel regardless how I feel, and that's just fine with me. If a skinny peson wants to stick up for fat people, that's awesome, even if it's only a flavor of the week kind of cause (a cause a person only superfically supports).

I look at it this way, I'd rather have more people on my side than against me.


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## Fairest Epic (Feb 29, 2008)

Ok...well if a certain group (group A) is being ridiculed by society then why can't another group (group B) help?

It's happened before...

Civil rights. Group A (minorities) were helped by Group B (white people/the accepted ones) in order for more acceptance in society. 

I don't know...sorry my thoughts are all foggy due to pain meds yay!

but anyway..."thin" people could now be Group B and "fat" people could be Group A. 

Quotes were inserted merely to make the point that the definitions of marked wered are individually relative. 

anywho...hopefully this is somewhat understandable...haha


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 29, 2008)

Picking up on what Stan and Ed said, there is also an issue of not just the message, but the messenger.

When I've posted things here, every now and then a fat person has responded with something along the lines of "well what do you know, you're not fat." And I realized that they were 100% correct. And that was not because somebody of any size can't have an opinion, but that anyone's opinion will necessarily be colored by their own experience.

Stan pointed out that he's a better voice for FA's (because he is one) that for fat people (because he's not one.)


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## butch (Feb 29, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Picking up on what Stan and Ed said, there is also an issue of not just the message, but the messenger.
> 
> When I've posted things here, every now and then a fat person has responded with something along the lines of "well what do you know, you're not fat." And I realized that they were 100% correct. And that was not because somebody of any size can't have an opinion, but that anyone's opinion will necessarily be colored by their own experience.
> 
> Stan pointed out that he's a better voice for FA's (because he is one) that for fat people (because he's not one.)



Your post reminds me of something one of my professors said to me once. I'm going to take him slightly out of context here, but he said something along the lines of that you don't usually see a tipping point of acceptance for a particular stigmatized/minoritized identity until people who don't fit that identity attempt to claim it for themselves in some way.

With that in mind, it can only be a good thing if thin allies feel that they have some connection to a 'fat identity' and want to take on aspects of that. Maybe it is more complicated for thin allies who are F(F)As, I'll grant you that, but for thin allies who aren't primarily attracted to fat partners, I think it's a great way to destabilize the idea of what fat really is, if obviously thin people want to know enough to be able to speak of 'the fat experience.'

The sad fact is, as others have mentioned in this thread, is that sometimes the same fat positive words coming out of a thin person's mouth have more effect on the non-fat accepting world than if they were spoken by a fat person.

Again, good luck on your try out, Britannia.


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## SparklingBBW (Feb 29, 2008)

Never forget. 

View attachment NiemollerQuoteMonmouthNJ200pxw.jpg


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## Tad (Feb 29, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Stan pointed out that he's a better voice for FA's (because he is one) that for fat people (because he's not one.)



Yes, but she was not proposing to say "this is what life is like as a BBW" but rather to speak for size acceptance--and she herself is size accepting. So I don't see a problem there, myself.


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## TallFatSue (Feb 29, 2008)

Miss Vickie said:


> Just so. Plus, is it hypocritical for men to support women's rights? For whites to support racial equality?


Exactly. On a related note, how many women go to male gynecologists? Personally I prefer my female gynecologist (because she understand what it's like to actually live in a female body), but many males are well qualified too.

If only fat people advocated size acceptance, then the unenlightened rabble might simply write us off as a bunch of uppity fatties. On the other hand, if we welcome thin people into our size acceptance ranks, they are worthy allies to help fat become more mainstream, simply by setting positive examples. My thin husband is a wonderful advocate of size acceptance simply by setting a good example.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 29, 2008)

I didn't say there was a problem, I just said that allies with any idea need to be aware that they themselves have a different experience from those who are seeking acceptance.

If somebody is purposefully undereating to stay thin while saying "fat is beautiful", then somebody may be getting a mixed message.

There was another thread here started by a women who participates in squashing with her partner and went on a talk show to discuss it. I posted that it didn't seem like a big deal, so long as they're adults, what's it to anyone else? Somebody else said "you don't understand because you don't live in a 400 pound body." And she was right; my perspective is going to be different AND my opinion is going to be perceived differently for not being that size.


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## Jes (Feb 29, 2008)

You know, there always seems to be a lot of talk about 'allies' in the world. It's a charged subject, isn't it? I don't know where I stand on this issue myself; I think my opinion was recently ... informed, shall we say, by a life situation and that may have changed my world view. I think, at the end of the day, we all have to do what we feel best, and whatever you feel is important, Britannia, is what you should do. It really doesn't matter what the rest of us think--you'll lose as many of us as you'll win over, no matter what your choice is. So do what you think is right, and never mind the opposition if it starts to rain down from the heavens.

And the editors will cut all of it out anyway.


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## Melian (Feb 29, 2008)

TallFatSue said:


> Exactly. On a related note, how many women go to male gynecologists?



*goes to a male OBGYN* hehehehe



Jes said:


> You know, there always seems to be a lot of talk about 'allies' in the world. It's a charged subject, isn't it? I don't know where I stand on this issue myself; I think my opinion was recently ... informed, shall we say, by a life situation and that may have changed my world view. I think, at the end of the day, we all have to do what we feel best, and whatever you feel is important, Britannia, is what you should do. It really doesn't matter what the rest of us think--you'll lose as many of us as you'll win over, no matter what your choice is. So do what you think is right, and never mind the opposition if it starts to rain down from the heavens.



I completely agree with Jes. If you want to use your media exposure to speak out for fat acceptance, you should just go for it. And if some individuals can't appreciate your effort, simply because you're thin, then so be it; that just reflects their own biases. Most thin people have fat loved ones in their lives, be it family, friends, partners, etc, and it seems ridiculous to discount our support of these people. I certainly don't want to see anyone I care about treated like they are lazy, unintelligent, diseased, etc, based on their weight.




Jes said:


> And the editors will cut all of it out anyway.



....yeah, there's that too. So you might as well say whatever you want, because if it doesn't concern shoes or hair, and isn't a catty remark about another contestant, it'll hit the cutting room floor.


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## IrishBard (Feb 29, 2008)

I've been doing it for two years. if I had a problem with it, I would have stopped doing it and merely agreed with the fat people who want to. 

Seriously, though, I hate the whole idea of this seperation between Fat people and thin. I am naturally lithe, nothing to do with life style, its just biological make-up, and whilst it has some advantages (I can dodge two blokes punching me at once and I'm incredibly fast on my feet), if this seperation was more prominant as a soical norm, then it would be a huge disadvantage for me, being an FA and all. 

I feel its Good that thin people can raise size issues as well as fat people, because, as most people have said, they are a size too and have as much right as anyone to raise this issue.


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## mrman1980uk (Feb 29, 2008)

Britannia said:


> Just an open forum. Do you think it would be hypocritical for, say, a thin model who has never had weight problems to advocate size acceptance? Or any other thoughts you may have on just the general idea.
> 
> P.S.
> 
> By size acceptance, I mean the idea that you shouldn't judge people based on their size, and that all sizes are beautiful.



Why would it be hypocritical for people of one size to believe that others should not be judged for their size? Would it not be hypocritical instead to believe that only people of one size, but not another, are worthy of criticism of some sort if they have any given belief (in this case, worthy of criticism for being hypocritical for believing in size acceptance)?

Hypocrisy is the practice of claiming that others should act in a particular way, but doing quite the contrary oneself. The only way that one can be hypocritical in relation to size acceptance, in the sense described above, is by telling others not to judge people based on their size, but judging people for their size themselves. 

Suggesting that people who advocate size-acceptance are hypocritical unless they are not thin implies that size acceptance entails promotion of largeness, rather than promotion of size-neutrality.


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## Sugar (Feb 29, 2008)

I welcome size acceptance from anyone. Acceptance in all forms rocks!

I draw the line with an average sized person telling me what they think my body should be able to do. I'm not the biggest or the smallest but unless someone has walked in my shoes it would behoove them to zip it.

I feel like the size acceptance support line and the advice line are crossed often and get confused when they are two very different things.


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## T_Devil (Feb 29, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> When I've posted things here, every now and then a fat person has responded with something along the lines of "well what do you know, you're not fat." And I realized that they were 100% correct. And that was not because somebody of any size can't have an opinion, but that anyone's opinion will necessarily be colored by their own experience.


Big deal.
So someone who's fat thinks your point isn't valid because you yourself are not fat? There are stupid fat people too, you know. I know.... I'm going to catch hell that, but that's ok, because I'm fat. 

Don't let somone who, just because of their condition, let you think that your opinion isn't valid. Your opinion has to have some kind of validity, or otherwise you wouldn't have it... would you?


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## bmann0413 (Feb 29, 2008)

I don't find anything wrong with having a skinny adovcate for size acceptance. I mean, it is for ALL sizes right?


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 29, 2008)

T_Devil said:


> Big deal.
> So someone who's fat thinks your point isn't valid because you yourself are not fat? There are stupid fat people too, you know. I know.... I'm going to catch hell that, but that's ok, because I'm fat.
> 
> Don't let somone who, just because of their condition, let you think that your opinion isn't valid. Your opinion has to have some kind of validity, or otherwise you wouldn't have it... would you?



Really what i meant was that my perspective on size related issues IS necessarily different because I have not had the same experiences as others.

You can be as much of an ally as you want, and you can be as supportive as you want, but if you have not walked the proverbial mile in somebody else's shoes, it is different.


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## Waxwing (Feb 29, 2008)

Supporting something that you care about is hard if you can't be easily identified as That Thing. But each person we can add to the cause has to be valuable...at least I hope so.


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## OutbackZack (Feb 29, 2008)

The one thing I notice in a few (meaning a handful) of people who support larger people is that in turns they end up becoming a hypocrite. What happens is that they become so tied up into it that they start to say thin is ugly, thin people can't be beautiful, and that they have some type of eating disorder.

I never let body become the focus of finding a girl. If I try my hardest to get with a larger girl then it's no different than those who try to get with a thin girl. It's always been face, personilty, and body for me.

But to sum it up: if we block out anyone who supports size acceptance, because they're thin then in turns we're no different than those who don't support bbws and bhms.


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## Fascinita (Mar 1, 2008)

Tina said:


> Should we just roll over and die now? Or maybe all go under the knife, because you believe that through the ages us fat people have been the objects of disgust and hatred because you've read literature?



Tina, I don't see what jes or butch said as promoting a "roll over and die" attitude, but more as a caveat not to build our arguments for size acceptance on false premises. 

As a lit type myself, and a fattie, it's always struck me how little evidence there is in European literature of true fat-positive views. Time and time again, you find evidence of the roots of today's hyper-fat-phobia going back through the ages in the written record.

That doesn't mean there haven't always been Western texts that portrayed the sheer, life-changing, limitless force that is represented by fat. But those portrayals are often complicated by ambivalence--often there is a feeling that even if fat represents a kind of life force, there is something anarchic, something to be feared about it and controlled.

It's important to know what we're up against and not to build a false sense of a shining past when everyone wanted to be fat, I think. Better to build a movement in which we aim to take away the stigma once and for all. To that end, I applaud the OP's desire to advocate for size acceptance in the present.

Just my two cents.


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## Jon Blaze (Mar 1, 2008)

OutbackZack said:


> The one thing I notice in a few (meaning a handful) of people who support larger people is that in turns they end up becoming a hypocrite. What happens is that they become so tied up into it that they start to say thin is ugly, thin people can't be beautiful, and that they have some type of eating disorder.
> 
> I never let body become the focus of finding a girl. If I try my hardest to get with a larger girl then it's no different than those who try to get with a thin girl. It's always been face, personilty, and body for me.
> 
> But to sum it up: if we block out anyone who supports size acceptance, because they're thin then in turns we're no different than those who don't support bbws and bhms.


Well it's not like the farther you go, the closer you get the more you're automatically "Straddling the fence." It's possible, but not a standard of course.

And you're talking about different concepts in the last two paragraphs. This is about acceptance and equality. Sexual preference is a whole different can of worms. You can be exclusive, and still support it. You just can't be negative towards thin at the same time, which the higher ups rarely are negative about it (Some exceptions apply of course).


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## goofy girl (Mar 1, 2008)

I'm too tired to do quote the other posts haha, but yeah, I think anyone who is willing to speak up and promote acceptance is a good thing. 

And yes, while there might be a smaller person that doesn't understand what it's like to be fat, or a straight person that doesn't understand what it's like to be gay, and nobody can really understand what it is to be another race...it doesn't mean that you can't empathize (or sympathize, I never know what the correct one is) with that person and try to work to gain acceptance for them.


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## Miss Vickie (Mar 1, 2008)

TallFatSue said:


> Exactly. On a related note, how many women go to male gynecologists? Personally I prefer my female gynecologist (because she understand what it's like to actually live in a female body), but many males are well qualified too.



Heck, we even have male midwives. They're pretty rare but they do exist, and they're fine practitioners. My gynie is not only male, but he's also gay. And he is the smartest, kindest, gentlest gynie I've ever seen or worked with (and I've seen and worked with a lot). 



> If only fat people advocated size acceptance, then the unenlightened rabble might simply write us off as a bunch of uppity fatties. On the other hand, if we welcome thin people into our size acceptance ranks, they are worthy allies to help fat become more mainstream, simply by setting positive examples. My thin husband is a wonderful advocate of size acceptance simply by setting a good example.



I agree, and I think that's why I welcome men into feminism as well. Because feminism isn't just a women's issue but a human issue -- as is size acceptance.




OutbackZack said:


> The one thing I notice in a few (meaning a handful) of people who support larger people is that in turns they end up becoming a hypocrite. What happens is that they become so tied up into it that they start to say thin is ugly, thin people can't be beautiful, and that they have some type of eating disorder.
> 
> I never let body become the focus of finding a girl. If I try my hardest to get with a larger girl then it's no different than those who try to get with a thin girl. It's always been face, personilty, and body for me.
> 
> But to sum it up: if we block out anyone who supports size acceptance, because they're thin then in turns we're no different than those who don't support bbws and bhms.



I just loved this post. Rep given, Zack. I hate the comments people make here sometimes about thin people being ugly, and other mean-spirited comments made about their appearance. That's just unkind and should have no place in a size acceptance forum. If we hate it done to us, then we should hate it being done to ANYONE.



Fascinita said:


> It's important to know what we're up against and not to build a false sense of a shining past when everyone wanted to be fat, I think. Better to build a movement in which we aim to take away the stigma once and for all. To that end, I applaud the OP's desire to advocate for size acceptance in the present.
> 
> Just my two cents.



I agree, Fascinita. I think that we need to focus on the present and the future, not the past. It's just too easy to take things out of context -- Venus of Willendorf being a prime example. I love archeology, but when they find objects, they're not too useful unless they can fit them into a cultural context. I'm afraid in the case of Venus, we don't have that; however even with more recent examples of written text, it's just way too easy to put our 21st century spin on whatever we read/see/hear. I adore history, particularly women's history and I'm as guilty as anyone of doing this, but really, our understanding is hampered by the fact that we're not living in that time. 

Still fun to speculate about, but it shouldn't guide our actions. Besides, we have enough on our plates to just deal with the problems we have NOW.


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## Jon Blaze (Mar 2, 2008)

Miss Vickie said:


> I just loved this post. Rep given, Zack. I hate the comments people make here sometimes about thin people being ugly, and other mean-spirited comments made about their appearance. That's just unkind and should have no place in a size acceptance forum. If we hate it done to us, then we should hate it being done to ANYONE.



YES! It's SO EASY! JUST LEAVE THEM ALONE!!! Why is that so hard??!?!! WHY??!?! 

(And my god: Satire does NOT have to be hateful! )

But seriously: We could hope that all here would believe in Size Acceptance, but many don't (A), and many think the later movements (Fat Admiration and Feederism) whether coupled with thin hatred or not are somehow examples of size acceptance. I've seen more than once where a site that specializes in the latter says that it's the former.


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## Jes (Mar 3, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> a caveat not to build our arguments for size acceptance on false premises.
> 
> .



Very nicely said and I agree. And while many HAVE gone under the knife, here and elsewhere, I never have. So certainly, my experience with primary source material that refutes this historical fat utopia we've heard about hasn't made me want to surgically alter myself OR roll over OR die.


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## superodalisque (Mar 3, 2008)

i love it when thin people are in size acceptance as long as its genuine. i'm finding a lot more of it now among my women friends. i think its often the case that we bbws especially wonder what motives some people may have for joining the acceptance movement. as long as they are in it for the right reasons its ok with me. and, even if they are in it for the wrong reasons it shouldn't matter too much as long as it helps us to make progress.


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## aspsword (Mar 12, 2008)

Britannia said:


> Just an open forum. Do you think it would be hypocritical for, say, a thin model who has never had weight problems to advocate size acceptance? Or any other thoughts you may have on just the general idea.
> 
> P.S.
> 
> By size acceptance, I mean the idea that you shouldn't judge people based on their size, and that all sizes are beautiful.



Is it hypocritical for, say, a fish that has never had a tail, to say to a monkey, "i support you buddy!"


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## ashmamma84 (Mar 12, 2008)

aspsword said:


> Is it hypocritical for, say, a fish that has never had a tail, to say to a monkey, "i support you buddy!"



How is that being hypocritical though? The fish isn't claiming to know what it is like to be a monkey...he's just saying, but virtue of being alive, you deserve dignity, respect, and have an inherent worth just like the rest of the animals in the kingdom. So instead of trying to create "otherness" they join forces by being supportive of each other...that's all really.


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## Tina (Mar 12, 2008)

I totally agree, Ash. Standing by and not doing anything is _much_ worse, IMO. I think that anyone who can empathize with whatever situation and is driven by their conscience and sense of justice should be welcome to respectfully be a supporter.


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## amber83 (Mar 17, 2008)

While it is a shame that we can't all be judged on personality, character and merit, we must also accept the fact that, as humans, we're naturally going to judge a book by its cover. 

I personally think it is a great thing, as it assists in breaking down the 'us vs them' attitude that we often find in society.


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## Travis (Mar 17, 2008)

People should quit advocating one size or another and simply advocate for an acceptance of all shapes and sizes so long as the individual enjoys who they are. If an individual who is big feels that they would be happier and healthier at a smaller size more power to them and the same goes for somebody who is smaller.


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