# Are you a vegan or a carnivore?



## smithnwesson (Aug 30, 2009)

Being a carnivore, I thought that was very funny. You may not agree.


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## TallFatSue (Aug 30, 2009)

Yes! I didn't flight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegetarian. 

Sue (happy omnivore and proud chocoholic, is life good or what? :eat2: )


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## PamelaLois (Aug 30, 2009)

Meat - good:bounce:


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## tonynyc (Aug 30, 2009)

Meat lover- but I do enjoy my veggies too


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 31, 2009)

It's not about being wimpy or needing a support group.

I've been a vegetarian my entire adult life (since age 12) and am moving towards veganism.

By doing so, I actively decline to encourage factory farming and the horrific pain and suffering that living creatures endure in the name of agribusiness. When I eat, I do so knowing no pig....a smart and social creature has lived a life of pain and solitude only to be killed. No sentient cow or chicken has been fed a hormone filled diet or crammed into a filthy feedlot, never to live a normal life. No veal calf has lived a short and painful life unable to stand up or socialize with its fellow calves.

I am not a wimp. Or a weirdo, or any sort of counterculture type. I am a thinking human who cares about the animals and every day chooses to not eat their flesh and contribute to their suffering and inhumane treatment.


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## smithnwesson (Aug 31, 2009)

LoveBHMS said:


> It's not about being wimpy or needing a support group.
> 
> I've been a vegetarian my entire adult life (since age 12) and am moving towards veganism.
> 
> ...



Do ya ever think about them 'taters? 

Underneath the ground. No air? No sunlight? No music? No social life? No MSNBC? Hell, not even any Internet access. They can't even google, fer Christ's sake.

And all just for your culinary gratification. SHAME!

To be wrapped in aluminum foil and to be CREMATED, or to be MANGLED with cream, salt, pepper, and butter. DOUBLE SHAME!

And then to plopped down on a plate next to cow/pig/chicken/Bambi/moose/lamb as a mere SIDE DISH? TRIPLE SHAME!

(Just funnin' wit' ya, sweetie. It's late and I've had a little more bourbon than usual. Please don't hate me . . .)

 - Jim


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## KatrinaBombshell (Aug 31, 2009)

im a total meat eater. all the way. i like veggies some of the time but it is rare...oh wait thats how i like my cow.... mmmmmm steak
but anyway yeah meat. if God didnt want us to eat the animals he wouldnt have made them of meat! lol


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## Ernest Nagel (Aug 31, 2009)

"In a strict scientific sense, Doctor, we all feed on death - even Vegetarians." (Spock - Wolf in the Fold). :bow: :eat2:


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## Dr. Feelgood (Aug 31, 2009)

I don't think LoveBHMS has a problem with death: everything dies. The objection here -- and it's part of the reason I don't eat meat myself -- is to the horrendous way animals are treated on factory farms. I don't want my money to pay for that. OTOH, I have a friend who was a hog farmer for years, until the factory farms ran him out of business. He cared for his pigs, saw that they had proper food and shelter, sunshine and fresh air, medicine if they got sick, and, when the time came, a quick and humane death. I would have no qualms about eating bacon from one of _his_ pigs, if he were still in business.


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## CameoRose (Aug 31, 2009)

Vegan here! Although, I did kinda laugh at that post! Funny! 

I read an article this past week that vegan's reduce their chance of having a heart attack by like 95% and their risk of a stroke by 90%. 

Don't quote me but it was something really high like that. YAY for us vegans!


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## Saoirse (Aug 31, 2009)

LoveBHMS said:


> It's not about being wimpy or needing a support group.
> 
> I've been a vegetarian my entire adult life (since age 12) and am moving towards veganism.
> 
> ...



same here! Im getting really tired of meat-eaters and their uncalled for commentary when I order food.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 31, 2009)

CameoRose said:


> Vegan here! Although, I did kinda laugh at that post! Funny!
> 
> I read an article this past week that vegan's reduce their chance of having a heart attack by like 95% and their risk of a stroke by 90%.
> 
> Don't quote me but it was something really high like that. YAY for us vegans!



There are so many good reasons to be vegetarian or vegan. It's better for the environment, better for the animals, and better for us. I don't evangelize, I let my good health and positive energy speak for itself. If anyone asks, I tell them why I don't eat meat and am in the process of giving up all animal products.


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## mossystate (Aug 31, 2009)

I am a thinking person, and I eat meat. I do not crow about it, or have an odd proudness over eating meat. LovesBHM...sorry I did not quote you, but, I am curious. I think you are a food server? Is it a vegan restaurant? Just wondering how a person might reconcile serving up death to others. I know you mentioned factory farms, so perhaps it is easier for you to serve animals if they were treated ' well ', before they were slaughtered..?


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 1, 2009)

I know eating meat is more healthy for the animals but I really don't know about it being more healthy for people. I think it's far more difficult to get the right amount of protein and everything if you're a vegetarian/vegan. I mean, I realize you're not supposed to eat like 5 pounds of meat a day because it's high in fat but I think it's important to have some meat in your diet, especially if you don't plan on being extremely vigilant when it comes to getting your protein. I've seen far too many "vegetarians" who eat hardly any veggies or fruit at all and instead eat 5 pounds of pasta a day.. it's like, yeah, that's not really that much better (for you.) I honestly do feel terrible about the mistreatment of animals and I'd love to change my eating habits to only eating free range meat or something but my finances and lifestyle don't permit that right now. Maybe in the future.


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## LoveBHMS (Sep 1, 2009)

Actually no.

The average American diet provides about 35-50 times the amount of protein a human needs.

Think about this: Do you know anyone personally, or do you know of anyone who has gotten sick from protein defiency? It simply is so rare in Western culture as to be unheard of. Most foods, including plant based ones have protein. 

However, as I said...I do what I do and don't evangelize. I eat what I eat, and have done so for decades with no health problems.

I only discuss the issue if somebody asks.


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## joh (Sep 1, 2009)

I was raised in a vegetarian household primarily due to my father's lifestyle. Having only know this lifestly growing up I have primarily adopted it for my adulthood. I did start eating Chicken as a protein supplement since tofu just wasn't cutting it for me (don't get me wrong, I still love tofu! Just not all the time).

I agree with Rachel, that being a vegetarian without the veggies is not near healthy at all (that use to be me). Actually consuming vegetables and fruits and not a ton of carbs can be very healthy. My father is a great example of living an optimal vegetarian diet. He's nearing 60, looks 45, and has not had one health issue (major or minor) in all of my existence. He attests that having not eating meat is a major reason he's so healthy, but I'm not sure if meat were to be thrown in in moderate portions if he'd still be of the same health.


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## LoveBHMS (Sep 1, 2009)

True, but skipping out on fruits and vegetables is a poor health choice, whether or not you are eating meat. Eating nothing but pasta or bread is a bad idea, as is eating nothing but burgers and spaghetti and meatballs.

My being a vegetarian has nothing to do with health, it's an ethical choice, the health benefits are secondary. I've also hear of many patients with cancer, heart disease, and other problems adopt a plant based diet with great health results. They're not doing it because of the animals, even though their health choice has a positive effect on animals and the environment.

I think it's great just for people to be aware of these issues and to make choices that benefit their own health and hopefully animals as well.


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 1, 2009)

LoveBHMS said:


> The average American diet provides about 35-50 times the amount of protein a human needs.
> 
> Think about this: Do you know anyone personally, or do you know of anyone who has gotten sick from protein defiency? It simply is so rare in Western culture as to be unheard of. Most foods, including plant based ones have protein





LoveBHMS said:


> True, but skipping out on fruits and vegetables is a poor health choice, whether or not you are eating meat. Eating nothing but pasta or bread is a bad idea, as is eating nothing but burgers and spaghetti and meatballs.
> 
> My being a vegetarian has nothing to do with health, it's an ethical choice, the health benefits are secondary. I've also hear of many patients with cancer, heart disease, and other problems adopt a plant based diet with great health results. They're not doing it because of the animals, even though their health choice has a positive effect on animals and the environment.
> 
> I think it's great just for people to be aware of these issues and to make choices that benefit their own health and hopefully animals as well.



Wow, that's a lot of extra protein.. I've never heard that before. That's interesting, really. I remember I was vegetarian (using this term loosely since it was such a short period of time) for a little less than 6 months when I was younger and I just remember approaching it the wrong way. I ate nothing but corn, green beans, pasta, cheese & soda. Literally. But, you're right, unhealthy eating is unhealthy eating regardless of whether you eat meat or not.

As far as ethics go, I really do wish I could make a change to free range meats (although I don't know how much better they are for the animals or environments really but I've heard some good things) but like I said, I don't have the money or the correct lifestyle to adopt something like that. For one, I depend on my parents about 25% of the time for food and 74% of the time on restaurants or fast food (terrible for me, I know) which leaves about 1% of the time I actually purchase my own groceries. Secondly, I don't have the money anymore due to spending tons of it on eating out the last 6 months (among various other things) and without having a job I'm left with 62.53 in my bank account and a car payment for 178.11 coming in 15 days. Lucky me. Point blank: I ain't got the cash to change my eating habits right now. I'm living on Ramen and 89 cent tacos from T Bell.



joh said:


> I was raised in a vegetarian household primarily due to my father's lifestyle. Having only know this lifestly growing up I have primarily adopted it for my adulthood. I did start eating Chicken as a protein supplement since tofu just wasn't cutting it for me (don't get me wrong, I still love tofu! Just not all the time).
> 
> I agree with Rachel, that being a vegetarian without the veggies is not near healthy at all (that use to be me). Actually consuming vegetables and fruits and not a ton of carbs can be very healthy. My father is a great example of living an optimal vegetarian diet. He's nearing 60, looks 45, and has not had one health issue (major or minor) in all of my existence. He attests that having not eating meat is a major reason he's so healthy, but I'm not sure if meat were to be thrown in in moderate portions if he'd still be of the same health.



I can attest to the fact that his father looks super young for his age. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with his vegetarian eating but I do think some of it can be attributed to the fact that he is a general contractor and therefore gets a ton of exercise a day.


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## Oirish (Sep 1, 2009)

My eyes are in the front of my head, I have sharp teath (abnormally so some would say)...I am a predatory animal by design. Meat tastes good. I don't make any judgements toward vegetarians or vegans though.


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 1, 2009)

Yeah, I don't think I could give up meat for the sole fact that I enjoy it and I've been raised on it so I definitely crave it if I don't have it for a few days.


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## Carl1h (Sep 1, 2009)

I eat what I want, and I don't have any problems with others doing the same. I've never understood people's need to tell other people what they should/shouldn't be eating. For my part I prefer the company of adventurous eaters over conservative ones and even though I eat meat I would rather eat with an adventurous vegetarian than a carnivore who won't try new things.

Right now my biggest problem with eating vegetables is the limited repertoire of vegetables that the people who also eat what I cook will eat. The other side of the coin is the problem I run into with vegetarian friends that is illustrated by this scenario: Vegetarian friend comes over to my house when I am about to eat a dish with meat in it. Politeness dictates that I offer food to anyone who shows up at mealtime. Internal dialogue goes back and forth between must offer food vs vegetarian friend doesn't want meat dish. Every time the politeness reflex wins and I offer food. At this point the vegetarian who has been my friend for over ten years decides I have forgotten they don't eat meat and reminds me that they are vegetarian and don't eat meat. I haven't forgotten, I'm just trying to be polite, I don't fix random vegetarian meals on the off chance that a vegetarian will show up at dinner time, so I offer the meat dish that I know you don't want, sorry.


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## HottiMegan (Sep 1, 2009)

I just never understood, my entire life, why meat eaters have to take issue with the fact that i don't eat meat. i have been teased and questioned for my diet my entire life. I don't go around saying you're wrong for eating meat because it's none of my business. But the minute i tell someone that I'm a vegetarian i get judged, usually as a nutcase. Vegetarian is a bad word in this nation. I remember being constantly teased by my cousins because i was a weirdo for not eating meat. I didn't tell them that their diet was wrong. I'm 31 and haven't eaten meat, it doesn't make me protein lacking, wacko or just plain weird. I am vegetarian for religious reasons and actually have nightmares about people force feeding me meat. I just don't get the near violent (in words not actions) reactions that people have for the simple statement that i'm a vegetarian. Is it threatening that someone is different from you? Does it make you question your own choices? I never once tell someone that they're wrong for eating meat. I can't tell you how often people have tried to say "just try that meat or egg, you'll love it". 
And contrary to popular belief, the vegetarian and vegan lifestyle can be full of yummy variety and tasty meals. 

/rant


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## Miss Vickie (Sep 1, 2009)

Megan, I don't get it either. Like weight, I'm not going to weigh in on someone's choices unless they ask or unless they're putting themselves in imminent danger and I feel like I can help. But there's no reason to give people grief for not eating meat (or for eating meat). I think people are just insecure; they feel judged by your food choices and so go on the offensive. Weird, I know, but that's people for ya!

So, while I'm neither vegan nor carnivore, but am an omnivore, I don't feel the need to belittle people for their food choices. It's all good, except maybe the ribbing (pun not intended) that I'm seeing in this thread. Food choices are incredibly personal and I know I don't like feeling put on the defensive; I hate to see others feel that way as well.


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## Tad (Sep 1, 2009)

I'm an omnivore for sure. I have at times tried to really reduce the amount of meat that I eat, however of recent years I've had digestive issues that seem really sensitive to most concentrated veggie sources of proteins and iron--which sucks because I rather like lentils, beans, tofu and the like--so I've accepted that for me meat is probably the better source of those things. Who ever heard of eating meat for health reasons? 

I have no issues with those who choose to be vegetarian, or vegan, or anything in that area. However I admit that enough of the ones that I've met first tell you that they are vegan (or whatever) and immediately follow it up with a lecture on the evils of meat, or how much better their diet is for the planet, or whatever, that it makes me a bit leery around them. That is, if the first thing I know about you is that you are vegan I may tend to avoid long conversations with you until I trust you not to be evangelical about it. Mind you, militant meat eaters can be just as annoying.



joh said:


> . My father is a great example of living an optimal vegetarian diet. He's nearing 60, looks 45, and has not had one health issue (major or minor) in all of my existence. He attests that having not eating meat is a major reason he's so healthy, but I'm not sure if meat were to be thrown in in moderate portions if he'd still be of the same health.



Or he could just have great genes. My father is similar in looking quite young for his age, in his seventies he water skis, down hill skis, plays tennis, and so on, with optimal blood pressure, cholesterol, and all of that. That after a lifetime of office jobs, being married to a woman who grew up on a dairy farm and who thinks that enough milk and eggs are the key to healthy living (and if my mom was away, he went straight for the KFC or pizza). 

In other words, individual cases don't tell us much about the general case, for the most part.


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 1, 2009)

For the record, I wasn't trying to belittle anyone in this thread for being vegetarian, just stating opinions.


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## smithnwesson (Sep 1, 2009)

thatgirl08 said:


> For the record, I wasn't trying to belittle anyone in this thread for being vegetarian, just stating opinions.



Yeah, me too. Not picking on anyone; just trying to get a laff. I'll eat almost anything that doesn't eat me first and don't care what anyone else eats (or doesn't eat).


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## LoveBHMS (Sep 1, 2009)

mossystate said:


> I am a thinking person, and I eat meat. I do not crow about it, or have an odd proudness over eating meat. LovesBHM...sorry I did not quote you, but, I am curious. I think you are a food server? Is it a vegan restaurant? Just wondering how a person might reconcile serving up death to others. I know you mentioned factory farms, so perhaps it is easier for you to serve animals if they were treated ' well ', before they were slaughtered..?



Like pretty much every single person alive, I have facets of my job that I don't like. Serving meat to those that order it is part of my job. I don't tell anyone what to order, but if asked about a particular dish I am always honest and tell them I don't eat meat and have never tried it.

I am not crowing, nor do I think I display and odd proudness over my choice. Do I think it's a good choice? Yes. Do I think it's right on many levels? Yes. If somebody disagrees, that is their right and if they choose to discuss it with me, I will do so.


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## bbw.arawa (Sep 1, 2009)

I've been a vegetarian for 11 years, always loved creative veggie meals. My favorite restaurant is the ''Golden Temple'' in Amsterdam from the manufacturers of ''Yogi Tea''. Very delicious indian and mexican veggie cuisine :eat2: My all time favorite meal there is ''Green Enchilada'', two corn tortillas filled with cheese, onions and sauce made from sour cream, green chilies and lots of fresh coriander. Served with refried beans, rice and salad garnish...hmmm...one of Golden Temple's Old Favorites! Google for ''golden temple amsterdam'' - then you'll get it!

Since 11 years I eat meat again, but I try to integrate my experiences I made during my vegetarian years into my ''fatty lifestyle'' - I really love best of both worlds...haha.


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## TallFatSue (Sep 2, 2009)

Tad said:


> I have no issues with those who choose to be vegetarian, or vegan, or anything in that area. However I admit that enough of the ones that I've met first tell you that they are vegan (or whatever) and immediately follow it up with a lecture on the evils of meat, or how much better their diet is for the planet, or whatever, that it makes me a bit leery around them. That is, if the first thing I know about you is that you are vegan I may tend to avoid long conversations with you until I trust you not to be evangelical about it. Mind you, militant meat eaters can be just as annoying.


Exactly. When you get right down to it, I eat what I eat because that's what I grew up with. It's a simple as that. I'm a happy omnivore who feels that whatever others want to eat is a personal choice and it's perfectly fine. Food can be a very personal issue. Those who take issue with vegetarians, vegans etc. simply don't understand what it's about, view it as a rejection of their own personal choices and overreact. People overreact about a lot of things, and comfort foods can be an explosive subject. Maybe they think if they can convert someone else to their choices they will validate themselves. I've been the victim of militant vegetarians, carnivores etc. who lecture me that I'm fat because I don't eat their way. They're not very numerous, but they are vocal and memorable. But I must admit, many of those vegetarian dishes look soooo good. Very creative. 

The great food mystery for me is: why do some people on cruise ships run to the nearest McDonald's in port like they're starving for what they call "real food"?  Oh, right, comfort food. :doh:


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## Esther (Sep 2, 2009)

I have not eaten poultry, beef or pork for about six years; however I still eat seafood 2-4 times a month. That doesn't technically make me a vegetarian, but I am referred to as such most of the time because it is easier than getting into a big discussion about my food preferences. Part of my decision to stop eatng meat was for ethical reasons, however I also simply do not like the taste or texture of it. I am extremely sensitive to the smell and taste of iron, so to me, a lot of meats, meat products, or authentic meat soup stocks smell overpoweringly of blood. It is not appealing.

I do not brag about my lifestyle because I'm not perfect: I still consume fish, as well as milk and eggs, and these food products involve just as much cruelty as meat itself. However, I once had a vegan give me some really solid advice that made me feel a bit better about my choices:

"It is much better to slowly and gradually reduce your consumption of animal products and to stop at an amount that you can manage in the long term, than to push yourself to adhere to an abrupt, strict vegan diet. If you push yourself too hard you're likely to burn out and return to your previous eating habits feeling defeated. You'll convince yourself that you just can't handle a reduction in your animal product intake, and you'll probably never try it again."

Take it slow, and do what you can! Any reduction in your consumption of animal products is a reduction in the demand for such products. If enough people even just lowered their intake of these products by a quarter or a half, there wouldn't be so much pressure on farmers to take drastic, cruel measures to produce these products on a mass scale.


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## Vespertine (Sep 8, 2009)

I'm a lacto-vegetarian/mostly vegan.



Carl1h said:


> Politeness dictates that I offer food to anyone who shows up at mealtime. Internal dialogue goes back and forth between must offer food vs vegetarian friend doesn't want meat dish. Every time the politeness reflex wins and I offer food. At this point the vegetarian who has been my friend for over ten years decides I have forgotten they don't eat meat and reminds me that they are vegetarian and don't eat meat. I haven't forgotten, I'm just trying to be polite, I don't fix random vegetarian meals on the off chance that a vegetarian will show up at dinner time, so I offer the meat dish that I know you don't want, sorry.



Oh man, I've been on the other end lots of times. It is always awkward for both and I appreciate that. Maybe just point out the side dishes that are vegetarian instead? That way it will be polite and show that you remember about their veginess. I mean, they're not going to eat the main dish anyway.



HottiMegan said:


> I just never understood, my entire life, why meat eaters have to take issue with the fact that i don't eat meat. i have been teased and questioned for my diet my entire life. I don't go around saying you're wrong for eating meat because it's none of my business. But the minute i tell someone that I'm a vegetarian i get judged, usually as a nutcase. Vegetarian is a bad word in this nation. I remember being constantly teased by my cousins because i was a weirdo for not eating meat. I didn't tell them that their diet was wrong. I'm 31 and haven't eaten meat, it doesn't make me protein lacking, wacko or just plain weird. I am vegetarian for religious reasons and actually have nightmares about people force feeding me meat.



My friend, do I know where you are coming from. I never liked meat as a child so I've been vegetarian my whole life, and I remember being shamed constantly for it growing up. It adds to my food issues in a unique way, in addition to being a fat kid, i was also the one with a funny diet that everyone had to remark on. I also have nightmares about being served meat, finding meat in something I was eating, etc.


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## Elfcat (Sep 12, 2009)

I am a meat eater, but it seems more and more that looking for deals on meat is not a good idea. Just had to throw away a few pieces last night. It seems like the low-costs stores sell you dregs on the verge of turning half the time.


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## AshleyEileen (Sep 20, 2009)

I work at Omaha Steaks. Meat is pretty much my life since I'm a "steak expert" and all.






LoveBHMS said:


> Think about this: Do you know anyone personally, or do you know of anyone who has gotten sick from protein defiency? It simply is so rare in Western culture as to be unheard of. Most foods, including plant based ones have protein.



Actually, yes, I do. My mother in-law was told to eat a strict diet of red meat and protein bars until her counts were at a stable level. Her body doesn't absorb protein or iron. Her iron is so low she has to get blood transfusions every 4-6 weeks.


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## Brandi (Sep 20, 2009)

I love meat, and don't think I could ever give it up. 
I do not judge anyone's choice whether to eat meat or not.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Sep 20, 2009)

AshleyEileen said:


> I work at Omaha Steaks. Meat is pretty much my life since I'm a "steak expert" and all.



Omaha Steaks! Back in the days before the do-not-call registry, they used to call (without saying who they were) and pretend to be conducting a survey as a lead-in to telling you about their product. I don't know how they got my number, but a very nice lady called and asked me whether I had noticed my grocery bill getting larger (I hadn't). The conversation continued:

NICE LADY: Do you like to eat tender, juicy, prime beef?

ME: No.

NICE LADY: You DON'T??!!!!

ME: I'm a vegetarian.

NICE LADY: Oh. We sell cheese, too.

I thought that was a very good comeback, and I'm glad they're still in business.


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## AshleyEileen (Sep 20, 2009)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Omaha Steaks! Back in the days before the do-not-call registry, they used to call (without saying who they were) and pretend to be conducting a survey as a lead-in to telling you about their product. I don't know how they got my number, but a very nice lady called and asked me whether I had noticed my grocery bill getting larger (I hadn't). The conversation continued:
> 
> NICE LADY: Do you like to eat tender, juicy, prime beef?
> 
> ...



Interesting. We don't sell cheese now and we've never put a grade our meat. Plus, I don't call anyone. I'm an assistant manager for a retail store.


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## Friday (Sep 21, 2009)

The only people I give shit to about their diets are the ones who feed their kids nothing but fast food and crap like Hamburger Helper. One person in particular really drives me nuts because she never, never feeds her kids fruit or vegetables unless you count the pickles and fries in the Happy Meals or the tomatoes in the Spaghetti O's. Disgusting. Nor have I ever heard any meat eating friend of mine harassing a veggie friend of mine. On the other hand, I have been lectured by sanctimonious veggies (definitely not friends of mine) trying to guilt people out of eating meat. (I only see one person here doing that). It just makes me go have a nice, bloody, rare steak.

We have cut back a lot on the amount of meat we eat, for health reasons mostly, but I know we'll never go vegetarian. Don't want to for one and I don't believe humans are meant to live a totally plant based diet. If we were we have the chewing equipment of a ruminant rather than the omnivore equipment nature gave us. Like many things what you eat is a personal choice and as long as what you choose to eat is legal everyone else should STFU about it.


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## mediaboy (Sep 21, 2009)

Vegan.

I don't really like meat and generally I puke when I eat fake meat.

I eat a lot of vegetables.

My life has some sort of purpose and ideological motive.

I have lots of energy all day, every day; especially for fucking and riding bikes.

I've been told my semen tastes like divine ambrosia by multiple ladies.

From what I hear omnivore semen tastes like shit soup that had a cigarette put out in it.

Vegan ftw.

Edit

ps I poop five times a day ATLEAST and they are all no whipers.

IN YOUR FACE LOL


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## Saoirse (Sep 22, 2009)

nvm........


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## Friday (Sep 22, 2009)

How about that, the ignore button does still come in handy. Hadn't used it in years.


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## pdgujer148 (Sep 22, 2009)

Equally tempted by a rare steak and a plate of pasta. Call me The Omnivore!

(Don't like Moderates? We have all the decent Pizzas!)


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## cinnamitch (Sep 22, 2009)

I like veggies, next to my meat of course, but i like em.


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## lypeaches (Oct 6, 2009)

for the carnivores..... 

View attachment meat.jpg


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## Cors (Oct 6, 2009)

Happy carnivore.


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## Miss Vickie (Oct 7, 2009)

lypeaches said:


> for the carnivores.....



*snort* love it.

I heard a term the other day. "Locavore" -- basically it's one of the food movements that encourages people to eat foods grown/caught/killed close to home. I like the idea, even while living in Alaska and knowing there's no way in HELL that I'd do it. I'm so not into muktuk, dried seaweed and salmon berries. Although I do enjoy moose from time to time, and I love the fish we have up here.

But yeah, me, an Alaskan locavore? Don't think so. But once I get down to the lower 48 in an area where you can actually grow food, I'm going to move in that direction.


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## jamie (Oct 7, 2009)

My husband is a vegetarian for both health and philosophical reasons and people crack me up with the questions they ask him.

No one, well at least that I know of, has ever tried to change his mind. I tease him sometimes and remark how delicious my steak is, but that is because we constantly rib each other. For convenience, and expense, and just - well, because - I eat a pretty vegetarian lifestyle because I don't care that much about meat, at least not enough to cook two meals and deal with the leftovers of tons of meat products from just one serving at a time.

I wonder if the people who take such umbrage with vegetarians do it because they feel, rightly or more likely wrongly, that when someone says "I am vegetarian for ethical reasons, I love animals," that they are being told by eating meat they are unethical or somehow hate animals. I don't think most vegetarians are doing this, but there are some militant animal rights groups that do try to advance that propaganda.


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## katorade (Oct 7, 2009)

I have the same qualms with many outspoken, militant vegetarians as they do with me. I don't enjoy being singled out as an evil, heartless, bloodthirsty, ignorant killer when I'm eating a turkey sandwich. Unless they eat nothing but food they've grown themselves, they have no room to talk when it comes to things like factory farming and agriculture. Where do they think their food is grown? Space? No. It's grown right here, in farmlands that have wiped out the natural habitats of surrounding wildlife, with pesticides and factory by-product run-off that poisons soil and waterways. And those that refuse to eat meat because of factory farming, why not just support local farmers instead? They could use your money!

I'll sound pretty evil for this, but, I just can't care about livestock that much. No, I can't stand to see them being mistreated or like they're already dead when they're not, but the idea that an animal has to die to make my burger doesn't phase me. Cows are stupid. Chickens? Stupid. Pigs? Pigs are fairly intelligent, but they'd also EAT YOU if they were hungry enough. Pigs are the only ones that would make it a while in nature without human assistance. These animals have basically been engineered over centuries for us to eat. They serve absolutely no other purpose.

Ironically, many of the vegetarians that have battled it out with me eat fish, and they have absolutely no idea how many of the fish they eat are overfished, or how other species of animals are getting wiped out either by getting caught in nets with them, or being killed for being our competition.

If I could, all of my food would either be produced by me, or sourced by farmer's markets or local suppliers, but that's just not always possible. I had my own garden while I was physically able to tend to it. When I lived closer to my parents, the majority of the meat I ate was venison or elk or fish or fowl my own father had hunted. 

My best friend is a pescetarian. We eat together all the time and neither of us comment on the other's eating habits. I've actually helped her source foods in the past to broaden her vegetarian diet and find foods she feels good about eating. I eat vegetarian meals with her all the time. I once accidentally fed her chicken and felt horrible about it, not amused or righteous. I'm not the "enemy".


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## Saoirse (Oct 7, 2009)

Children can be stupid... should we eat them?


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## katorade (Oct 7, 2009)

Only if they grow up to be stupid adults that ask stupid questions.


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## Miss Vickie (Oct 7, 2009)

jamie said:


> I tease him sometimes and remark how delicious my steak is, but that is because we constantly _*rib*_ each other.



Heh. You said "rib". Heh. Geddit? 



katorade said:


> I have the same qualms with many outspoken, militant vegetarians as they do with me. I don't enjoy being singled out as an evil, heartless, bloodthirsty, ignorant killer when I'm eating a turkey sandwich. Unless they eat nothing but food they've grown themselves, they have no room to talk when it comes to things like factory farming and agriculture. Where do they think their food is grown? Space? No. It's grown right here, in farmlands that have wiped out the natural habitats of surrounding wildlife, with pesticides and factory by-product run-off that poisons soil and waterways. And those that refuse to eat meat because of factory farming, why not just support local farmers instead? They could use your money!



Yeah pretty much just by being human and eating in a way other than gathering berries, we're altering out environment. Period. Eating food grown locally at least minimizes the amount of petroleum products used to truck/train/barge it from one end of the country to another. 



> I'll sound pretty evil for this, but, I just can't care about livestock that much. No, I can't stand to see them being mistreated or like they're already dead when they're not, but the idea that an animal has to die to make my burger doesn't phase me.



It bothers me but not enough to stop eating meat. I love animals -- all animals, even the stupid ones, including stupid people. And I do feel badly I guess that animals have to die. But like it or not, humans are omnivores and I need protein -- animal protein -- to thrive. The only thing I can do is try to eat animals that have been grown, and killed, in as humane way as possible. Plus, if humans didn't eat animals, other predators would, and I guarantee that the way predators kill is far less humane than how it's done in humanely run farms (non-humane methods in factory farming is another story...)



> Ironically, many of the vegetarians that have battled it out with me eat fish, and they have absolutely no idea how many of the fish they eat are overfished, or how other species of animals are getting wiped out either by getting caught in nets with them, or being killed for being our competition.



Yeah, uhm, if you're eating fish you're not a vegetarian. And I think it's easier for people to eat fish because they don't have big brown eyes, which is really unfair to the fish because they, too, feel pain and they usually suffocate to death, which is an AWFUL way to die, not to mention the nets which yes, are indiscriminate in what they catch and kill.



Saoirse said:


> Children can be stupid... should we eat them?



Actually I've found that children are quite smart. It's adults who can be stupid.


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## lypeaches (Oct 9, 2009)

katorade said:


> Ironically, many of the vegetarians that have battled it out with me eat fish, and they have absolutely no idea how many of the fish they eat are overfished, or how other species of animals are getting wiped out either by getting caught in nets with them, or being killed for being our competition.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> It's real simple. If you eat fish, you're NOT a vegetarian.


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## Esther (Oct 9, 2009)

lypeaches said:


> katorade said:
> 
> 
> > Ironically, many of the vegetarians that have battled it out with me eat fish, and they have absolutely no idea how many of the fish they eat are overfished, or how other species of animals are getting wiped out either by getting caught in nets with them, or being killed for being our competition.
> ...


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## Tooz (Oct 9, 2009)

I don't have a problem with vegetarianism or veganism. I have been trying to figure out good ways to make meatless dishes for dinner parties for some time now-- I have been known to eat tofu-based chinese food, too.  Also, there is a company that makes the most fabulous vegan "chicken" noodle soup cup ever. I would take it over a can of Campbell's, actually...and then have a giant burger for dinner. 

What I cannot stand is militant veggies who sit there screaming about how terrible meat is and omg that sandwich will kill you omg. I think that is why some normal veggies have trouble with overbearing meat-eaters-- it's a backlash from some psycho who wouldn't shut up. Eat your food, I'll eat mine.


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## lypeaches (Oct 9, 2009)

Esther, I understand the convenience factor of the terminology...but as a person who was raised a strict vegetarian, it's annoying when some people INSIST that they're vegetarian when in fact they eat fish & seafood. We're not talking about people who do it to save an explanation...folks who sincerely believe they're vegetarians.

PS. I am no longer a vegetarian, as I no longer believe that it's a SIN to eat meat....but at least half my meals are still vegetarian as I enjoy the food.


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## jamie (Oct 9, 2009)

I just have a silly story that goes along with this.

Speaking the other day about dumb questions vegetarians get -

I was talking to some co-workers and mentioned that Justin was a vegetarian. 

Co-Worker R asks: "Does he eat fish?"

Me: "Nope, R, nothing with a head."

Co-Worker R: "Do fish have heads?"

Me: "Uhm...(speechless for a minute)...yeah, that's where there eyes are."

Co-Worker R: "oh yeah..."




lypeaches said:


> Esther, I understand the convenience factor of the terminology...but as a person who was raised a strict vegetarian, it's annoying when some people INSIST that they're vegetarian when in fact they eat fish & seafood.


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## Saoirse (Oct 9, 2009)

I have never, ever come across an 'extreme' vegetarian, who obnoxiously yells at people for eating meat. Dont think any of my friends have either(and they would sure tell me, as Im a veghead myself).


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## Tooz (Oct 9, 2009)

Saoirse said:


> I have never, ever come across an 'extreme' vegetarian, who obnoxiously yells at people for eating meat. Dont think any of my friends have either(and they would sure tell me, as Im a veghead myself).



Okay, well, I have. Many times. I'd say more often than not.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Oct 9, 2009)

Saoirse said:


> I have never, ever come across an 'extreme' vegetarian, who obnoxiously yells at people for eating meat. Dont think any of my friends have either(and they would sure tell me, as Im a veghead myself).




Neither have I, though some of my friends tell me they've met such specimens. I HAVE met a few carnivores -- generally at banquets -- who freaked out when they realized I wasn't eating meat, but I put their dismay down to insecurity.


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## Friday (Oct 10, 2009)

Saoirse said:


> I have never, ever come across an 'extreme' vegetarian, who obnoxiously yells at people for eating meat. Dont think any of my friends have either(and they would sure tell me, as Im a veghead myself).



I have. I've had to deal with jerks who try to gross you out of eating the meal in front of you. I saw at one poster on this thread that I imagine would behave like an ass every chance s/he got.


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## Esther (Oct 10, 2009)

Tooz said:


> Okay, well, I have. Many times. I'd say more often than not.



That must be an unfortunate group of vegetarians you know then. I've only known a handful of militant, obnoxious vegetarians in my entire life.


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## Esther (Oct 10, 2009)

lypeaches said:


> Esther, I understand the convenience factor of the terminology...but as a person who was raised a strict vegetarian, it's annoying when some people INSIST that they're vegetarian when in fact they eat fish & seafood. We're not talking about people who do it to save an explanation...folks who sincerely believe they're vegetarians.
> 
> PS. I am no longer a vegetarian, as I no longer believe that it's a SIN to eat meat....but at least half my meals are still vegetarian as I enjoy the food.




I have personally never met somebody who insisted they were a vegetarian even though they eat fish and seafood, so I didn't realize this was even an issue. I wouldn't worry too much about people like that, though... they are probably the same kind of people who insist that they are activists because they donated a few coins to world hunger.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Oct 10, 2009)

Esther said:


> I have personally never met somebody who insisted they were a vegetarian even though they eat fish and seafood, so I didn't realize this was even an issue.



Out here in Oklahoma, fish isn't the issue -- it's chicken! If I had a dollar for every time I've heard someone say, "You're a vegetarian? But you eat chicken, don't you?" I'd buy your favorite restaurant and take you to lunch there. Then I read an article (might've been in _The Onion_) that claimed chicken is a vegetable: since bugs are predators on vegetables and birds are predators on bugs, one species of vegetable (chickens) deters bugs by camouflaging itself as a bug's worst enemy. Apparently many Okies believe this.


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## Tooz (Oct 10, 2009)

Esther said:


> That must be an unfortunate group of vegetarians you know then. I've only known a handful of militant, obnoxious vegetarians in my entire life.



They're pretty common in college town areas, which I have spent a good chunk of my life in. I just hate when vegetarians OR "carnivores" get on some kind of soapbox about how awesome their "way of eating" is. Just leave it alone, to each their own.


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## bexy (Oct 10, 2009)

I was a strict vegetarian for 21 years. At the age of 21 I randomly decided to taste chicken and have never looked back. I love most meat, and couldn't imagine ever going veggie again, even though morally I feel bad all of the time for eating meat. That's mostly because of Morrissey though, so if you see him please don't tell him!
Oh and about the "veggies" who eat fish, I had an argument with one the other day. My friend's sister in law. I tried to tell her she was actually a Pescatarian, and she looked at me as if _I_ was a fish. She carried on insisting she was veggie, even after telling us she tried frog's legs a few weeks ago!!


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## MsGreenLantern (Oct 10, 2009)

I eat meat. I feel horrible about the treatment of the animals, I do, and my older sister recently became a vegitarian... because somehow in her nearly 30 years of life eating meat she'd never been aware of animal treatment before now? I don't know about her... but back on subject: I hate how the animals are treated, but I love meat, and I firmly believe [backed by science] that humans are omnivores, and meat is a vital part of the human diet. We eat too much of it, but we need it. I take no issue with Vegetarians at all. To each his or her own, and I'm glad people take their boycott on the mistreatment seriously. If I had a choice of where/how to get my meat, I would by all means [as a supporter of no kill shelters and animal rescues my whole life] go ahead and support it by buying their products. Short of going out and hunting my own game [which I could NEVER do! I'd just cry and probably be ill doing it myself], I have few options in suburbia.

Lets face it. The country has made it so that we don't have to kill our own prey. We don't farm out own veggies usually either. We have been brought up in a culture that is not tough enough to make it without these big operations. The majority of people don't even have a yard for gardening. What we need is strict US guidelines [that are ENFORCED] when it comes to ethical animal treatment prior to, and during, slaughtering. I am a big advocate for this.

When it comes to Veganism... I think this is very unhealthy. It simply is. It cuts out most of the major building blocks of human nutrition. My aunt was a vegan while pregnant and she was so weak she nearly lost the baby. Her doctor forced her to change back to regular vegetarianism [as she had been her whole life prior with the utmost in health and balance in diet]. Anything that makes it unhealthy and dangerous to preform your bodies natural functions, is not healthy. As far as I'm aware, at no point in history has a culture survived cutting out all animal products.

I found this post elsewhere on the topic since I became curious about the topic after posting my opinions!:



> Moonbear: (vegetarians are unhealthy-reply) Some are. But, no, it is not an essential part of the diet. The essential amino acids can also be obtained by combining vegetables and grains to balance those. Animal products are considered complete proteins, because you can obtain all of your essential amino acids from any single type of meat, and they are in the most digestible form for the human body. With a vegetarian diet, no single food item is a complete protein, and vegetable sources are not as digestible as meat sources, so one must be educated about what to combine to ensure they are getting adequate nutrients. Of course, proteins are not the only nutrients we require either, so we need more than just meats too.
> 
> Humans are omnivores and the structure and function of the digestive tract, not its length, is what tell us that humans are not efficient at digesting vegetables (that's why they are good sources of fiber, which means undigestible matter). We are also not obligate carnivores, so need more than just meat as well. The diet that our digestive tract has evolved to digest contains a mixture of meats, vegetables and grains.
> 
> So, one can be a healthy vegetarian if they are very careful about what they are doing, but there are also a lot of myths, such as the one the OP inquired about, that are spread among vegetarians (as well as myths spread among non-vegetarians about vegetarian diets). I would strongly suggest that anyone considering a vegetarian diet ask their physician to recommend a good nutritionist who can help them understand their dietary needs and approach their choice in a healthy and safe manner. Don't rely just on the advice of your physician...believe it or not, they do not receive much training on nutrition in medical school, so are not the best people to ask for help in formulating a diet. A registered dietician or nutritionist is a better resource.


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## Saoirse (Oct 11, 2009)

I am against factory farming and inhumane treatment of all animals. So, instead of being an armchair rebel, I decided that meat companies wouldn't be getting my money. If people ask me about my eating habits, I will gladly engage in conversation... but if you try to demean my way of life, I will get opinionated and radical on your ass.


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## MsGreenLantern (Oct 12, 2009)

Okay... no offense, but just not buying meat personally is still an "armchair rebel". Unless more than the estimated 3% of the US population who are full-on no-meat vegetarians do more than that, nothing is going to change. Pardon if I don't applaud every single vegetarian for being an activist by not buying a hamburger. 

The problem is, that there are very few groups who are trying to correct the problems. PETA are a bunch of violent, shock tactic, fat hating extremists, so until some other group steps up to show the world how to stop the animal abuses in the meat industry...nothing will change [unless something like... 30% instead of 3% start to boycott meat]. The government is what needs to step up, not singular consumers.

Being radical "on my ass" will not change anything anyway. All that does is automatically sour the listener to whatever you say to them, hence ruining your objective of getting minds opened to the problem. The world needs more level-headed problem solvers, and less radicals.


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## Saoirse (Oct 12, 2009)

MsGreenLantern said:


> Okay... no offense, but just not buying meat personally is still an "armchair rebel". Unless more than the estimated 3% of the US population who are full-on no-meat vegetarians do more than that, nothing is going to change. Pardon if I don't applaud every single vegetarian for being an activist by not buying a hamburger.
> 
> The problem is, that there are very few groups who are trying to correct the problems. PETA are a bunch of violent, shock tactic, fat hating extremists, so until some other group steps up to show the world how to stop the animal abuses in the meat industry...nothing will change [unless something like... 30% instead of 3% start to boycott meat]. The government is what needs to step up, not singular consumers.
> 
> Being radical "on my ass" will not change anything anyway. All that does is automatically sour the listener to whatever you say to them, hence ruining your objective of getting minds opened to the problem. The world needs more level-headed problem solvers, and less radicals.



eta: oh, and I really love how crazy obnoxious meat-eaters are applauded for standing up to us scary, bleeding heart vegetarians. But seriously... having someone shovel a bacon cheeseburger down their throat in front of my face doesn't upset me. Just makes me feel sorry.


I am an active animal rights supporter. I didn't just stop buying burgers. I volunteer at local animal shelters. I've worked on fundraisers. I have done and will continue to do everything I can to help stop animal abuse. Please do not assume that I just gave up meat and patted myself on the back.


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## katorade (Oct 12, 2009)

Saoirse said:


> I am an active animal rights supporter. I didn't just stop buying burgers. I volunteer at local animal shelters. I've worked on fundraisers. I have done and will continue to do everything I can to help stop animal abuse. Please do not assume that I just gave up meat and patted myself on the back.



As long as you can acknowledge that meat-eaters do the same things.


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## Saoirse (Oct 12, 2009)

katorade said:


> As long as you can acknowledge that meat-eaters do the same things.



Uhmmm of course... I'm not completely clueless.


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## LoveBHMS (Oct 12, 2009)

Friday said:


> I have. I've had to deal with jerks who try to gross you out of eating the meal in front of you. I saw at one poster on this thread that I imagine would behave like an ass every chance s/he got.



You imagine? Really? I love how you just make assumptions about how somebody would act IRL based on nothing more than some on topic posts on a message board. 

There is a lot of nuance to this stuff. Some people are 'live and let live' types, and some are militant. It's like with abortion--some simply support the 'right to life' position and some picket abortion clinics because they feel a moral need to save lives. I don't agree with the 'right to life' position on abortion because i'm pro-choice, but I do understand it.

I personally make the choice to not discuss my diet unless asked. I feel that if somebody asked, s/he has opened up the conversation. I don't proactively offer information about factory farming but if somebody asks why I don't eat meat, I'll say it's an ethical issue and an opposition to factory farming. 

Some people feel so passionately about these issues, they need to do more than just answer questions; some people join PETA and some join the ALF and firebomb laboratories. It's the same thing as the continuum of self ascribing as an environmentalist, volunteering your time for recycling efforts, choosing to live off the grid on a commune, and chaining yourself to old trees to prevent clear cutting.

Things that come across as crazy, radical, annoying...whatever. A lot of those things are just passion and strong caring and feeling compelled to fix a serious problem.

And as far as the health thing goes---I have not eaten meat for decades and I'm perfectly healthy. I don't believe for a second humans need to eat meat. I'm not saying it is or is not unhealthy in its natural state (by which I mean hunted or humanely farmed and not shot up with chemicals and hormones and who-knows-what-else) but I think it's untrue that it's not healthy or natural.


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## katorade (Oct 12, 2009)

Saoirse said:


> Uhmmm of course... I'm not completely clueless.



Let me rephrase that to say everyone, rather than just you, because I don't want that to come across as being snarky or a personal attack at all. I'm speaking more to those people out there that start up with the meat-eaters, really. I was once called a hypocrite because I volunteered at an animal rescue and ate meat! LOL! By a fellow volunteer, even!


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## Tooz (Oct 12, 2009)

MsGreenLantern said:


> Okay... no offense, but just not buying meat personally is still an "armchair rebel". Unless more than the estimated 3% of the US population who are full-on no-meat vegetarians do more than that, nothing is going to change. Pardon if I don't applaud every single vegetarian for being an activist by not buying a hamburger.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Being radical "on my ass" will not change anything anyway. All that does is automatically sour the listener to whatever you say to them, hence ruining your objective of getting minds opened to the problem. The world needs more level-headed problem solvers, and less radicals.



Thank you. I found the post somewhat offensive and ridiculous, too. You make excellent points.


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## Tooz (Oct 12, 2009)

Saoirse said:


> eta: oh, and I really love how crazy obnoxious meat-eaters are applauded for standing up to us scary, bleeding heart vegetarians. But seriously... having someone shovel a bacon cheeseburger down their throat in front of my face doesn't upset me. Just makes me feel sorry.



That is no better than soap boxing! Lord. No one needs your sympathy.


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## Saoirse (Oct 12, 2009)

Tooz said:


> That is no better than soap boxing! Lord. No one needs your sympathy.



Well we can't all be perfect!


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## Tooz (Oct 12, 2009)

Saoirse said:


> Well we can't all be perfect!



Yes, if only my ~crippling meat addiction~ could be cured, I could attain perfection.  I'm eating beef stew tonight, freshly made with stuff from a local farmers' market. Please try not to cry too hard for me.


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## Neen (Oct 12, 2009)

Tooz said:


> I don't have a problem with vegetarianism or veganism. I have been trying to figure out good ways to make meatless dishes for dinner parties for some time now-- I have been known to eat tofu-based chinese food, too.  Also, there is a company that makes the most fabulous vegan "chicken" noodle soup cup ever. I would take it over a can of Campbell's, actually...and then have a giant burger for dinner.
> 
> What I cannot stand is militant veggies who sit there screaming about how terrible meat is and omg that sandwich will kill you omg. I think that is why some normal veggies have trouble with overbearing meat-eaters-- it's a backlash from some psycho who wouldn't shut up. Eat your food, I'll eat mine.



AMEN SISTA!
i've gone back and forth on the veggie thing for years. I've never been a 'militant' and would not enjoy hearing one preach. I like meat, i like meat free meals. get over it! I like it all baby!:happy:


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## Tooz (Oct 12, 2009)

Neen said:


> AMEN SISTA!
> i've gone back and forth on the veggie thing for years. I've never been a 'militant' and would not enjoy hearing one preach. I like meat, i like meat free meals. get over it! I like it all baby!:happy:



Exactly. I'll eat seitan, falafel, tofu, beef, chicken, whatever.


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## Saoirse (Oct 12, 2009)

Tooz said:


> Yes, if only my ~crippling meat addiction~ could be cured, I could attain perfection.  I'm eating beef stew tonight, freshly made with stuff from a local farmers' market. Please try not to cry too hard for me.



I have never said that eating meat is evil! This is what makes any sort of conversation practically impossible here. Assumptions from BOTH sides. Was the beef you bought humanely raised and slaughtered? Then CONGRATULATIONS, you are part of the movement! The more people that buy humanely raised meat, the better!

Like I said before- the whole "Im gonna eat some bloody steak, rawr!" schtick is saddening. Not because I dont eat meat, but because it makes the person *seem* as though satisfying their palate is way more important than the treatment of innocent beings.


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## Friday (Oct 12, 2009)

Saoirse said:


> eta: oh, and I really love how *crazy obnoxious meat-eaters* are applauded for standing up to us scary, bleeding heart vegetarians. But seriously... *having someone shovel a bacon cheeseburger down their throat in front of my face* doesn't upset me. Just makes me feel sorry.



And this is precisely where I start tuning out anything you have to say. If you must resort to name calling and attempted insults to make your point then you have nothing to say that I want to hear.


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## Neen (Oct 12, 2009)

Saoirse said:


> I have never said that eating meat is evil! This is what makes any sort of conversation practically impossible here. Assumptions from BOTH sides. Was the beef you bought humanely raised and slaughtered? Then CONGRATULATIONS, you are part of the movement! The more people that buy humanely raised meat, the better!
> 
> Like I said before- the whole "Im gonna eat some bloody steak, rawr!" schtick is saddening. Not because I dont eat meat, but because it makes the person *seem* as though satisfying their palate is way more important than the treatment of innocent beings.



DUDE! What's with the anger??? can't we all get along?


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## Tooz (Oct 12, 2009)

Saoirse said:


> I have never said that eating meat is evil! This is what makes any sort of conversation practically impossible here. Assumptions from BOTH sides. Was the beef you bought humanely raised and slaughtered? Then CONGRATULATIONS, you are part of the movement! The more people that buy humanely raised meat, the better!
> 
> Like I said before- the whole "Im gonna eat some bloody steak, rawr!" schtick is saddening. Not because I dont eat meat, but because it makes the person *seem* as though satisfying their palate is way more important than the treatment of innocent beings.



I buy humane meat when I can afford it. I'm a student with a part-time census gig. I don't rake in the dough. Even if I WAS like "I AM GONNA EAT STEAK YEAHHHHH," that is my right. Besides, what do you think animals in the wild do? lol


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## Saoirse (Oct 12, 2009)

Tooz said:


> I buy humane meat when I can afford it. I'm a student with a part-time census gig. I don't rake in the dough. Even if I WAS like "I AM GONNA EAT STEAK YEAHHHHH," that is my right. Besides, what do you think animals in the wild do? lol



And its MY right to tell the world why Im a vegetarian! 

I promise, there is no anger on my end. I have never (purposely) berated people for eating meat. I just sincerely wish people would LISTEN to my reasoning for being meat-free before jumping on me and telling me why I'm an inferior being (and I'm going to single anyone out here).


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## Saoirse (Oct 12, 2009)

Friday said:


> And this is precisely where I start tuning out anything you have to say. If you must resort to name calling and attempted insults to make your point then you have nothing to say that I want to hear.



Its not name-calling. I didnt say every single meat-eater in the world does this. But for as many obnoxious veggies out there, there are just as many obnoxious meat-eaters. I meant no insults, I promise.


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## Saoirse (Oct 12, 2009)

Im sorry if anyone is offended by anything I have said. It was never my intent. Im just simply trying to get my points across.

I guess Im done with this thread now, which upsets me because I love to teach and to learn things.


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## Friday (Oct 12, 2009)

If that's not the way you meant it then I apologize for misunderstanding. I know that people on both sides of this issue can be asses and we have all run into them unfortunately so sometimes we (meaning me) react defensively. I think that both sides need to be more understanding of the why, wherefores and limitations of those on the other side. Passing up a cheeseburger may not be a major blow for animal rights but a person has to start somewhere and at least they are making an attempt. Every journey begins with one step.

I myself would love to have more access to humanely raised meat. I love meat and I will never stop eating it so humane is the way to go but my concerns are as much or more for the planet in general than for animal rights specifically. If I have to burn several gallons of gas to get to a source of humanely raised meat I've done the planet no good. Better that I stay home and make a mostly plant based meal out of a small amount of meat I purchased 1/2 mile from my home. Likewise, buying locally grown produce that hasn't been shipped thousands of miles is important to me. Again, it's about the overall footprint.

So, um, I hope I didn't totally misdirect the thread.


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## AshleyEileen (Oct 14, 2009)

On a side note for the meat eaters, Omaha Steaks is having a HUGE half off everything in the store sale this weekend! Go to www.omahasteaks.com to find a store near you. =D


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## arno33 (Oct 15, 2009)

I am a Omnivore


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## Esther (Oct 15, 2009)

Tooz said:


> Besides, what do you think animals in the wild do? lol



This is one argument that sometimes bothers me. I don't think meat-eating is wrong, by any means. However, animals in the wild chase down their prey and kill it with their bare teeth and claws. Human beings don't do this. And I doubt anyone who posted in this thread is capable of doing so. People may argue that human beings were meant to eat meat... but they were also meant to hunt and kill it themselves. The way it is done now is not natural. We have had to domesticate our prey to the point that they are completely helpless. We keep them enclosed so they can't run away. We slaughter them with machinery so we don't have to get our hands dirty. I think one of the biggest problems is the subsequent mental disconnect between the meat on our plate and the animal that it once was. It's easy to not care about the fact that an animal died for our meat when we didn't have to see it ourselves.
This why I admire hunters(for food, not for sport), anglers and people who raise and slaughter their own livestock. In my experience they tend to have a greater respect for their food because they had to take the animal's life themselves. I once had a family friend describe to me how sad it was the first time she slaughtered her own rabbits. She cried for awhile, and afterward she made sure she used every part of them that she possibly could.

Also, I realize that they way we recieve our non-animal produce is also unnatural, since we aren't gathering it ourselves. I just felt that it was important to address this.


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## katorade (Oct 15, 2009)

Esther said:


> This is one argument that sometimes bothers me. I don't think meat-eating is wrong, by any means. However, animals in the wild chase down their prey and kill it with their bare teeth and claws. Human beings don't do this. And I doubt anyone who posted in this thread is capable of doing so. People may argue that human beings were meant to eat meat... but they were also meant to hunt and kill it themselves. The way it is done now is not natural. We have had to domesticate our prey to the point that they are completely helpless. We keep them enclosed so they can't run away. *We slaughter them with machinery so we don't have to get our hands dirty.* I think one of the biggest problems is the subsequent mental disconnect between the meat on our plate and the animal that it once was. It's easy to not care about the fact that an animal died for our meat when we didn't have to see it ourselves.
> This why I admire hunters(for food, not for sport), anglers and people who raise and slaughter their own livestock. In my experience they tend to have a greater respect for their food because they had to take the animal's life themselves. I once had a family friend describe to me how sad it was the first time she slaughtered her own rabbits. She cried for awhile, and afterward she made sure she used every part of them that she possibly could.
> 
> Also, I realize that they way we recieve our non-animal produce is also unnatural, since we aren't gathering it ourselves. I just felt that it was important to address this.




I mostly agree, but I do take some exception to this. Slaughterhouse machinery is used for efficiency, quick death, and safety of employees. There are many people that have no qualms about taking the life of an animal, especially when it becomes routine. The people not wanting to dirty their hands are the people actually purchasing meat that has already been butchered.

I totally agree about the mental disconnect, and have to roll my eyes at people that will eat meat, but can't bear to look at a full carcass, or the sight of raw meat makes them ill. I say this somewhat hypocritically because I can't bring myself to eat food that looks like it did when it was alive, with the exception of shellfish because I was exposed to that early on. I can't eat a fish if it's freaking looking at me. I don't feel remorse, nor does my heart go out to it, there's just something creepy about dressing it to look appetizing with its once-majestic face twisted and shriveled, staring at you through cloudy, dead eyes. *shudder* Same goes for dressing and presenting a whole pig. Don't make its head look like a decoration, that's just...Tim Burton-esque macabre.


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## Esther (Oct 15, 2009)

katorade said:


> I mostly agree, but I do take some exception to this. Slaughterhouse machinery is used for efficiency, quick death, and safety of employees. There are many people that have no qualms about taking the life of an animal, especially when it becomes routine. The people not wanting to dirty their hands are the people actually purchasing meat that has already been butchered.
> 
> I totally agree about the mental disconnect, and have to roll my eyes at people that will eat meat, but can't bear to look at a full carcass, or the sight of raw meat makes them ill. I say this somewhat hypocritically because I can't bring myself to eat food that looks like it did when it was alive, with the exception of shellfish because I was exposed to that early on. I can't eat a fish if it's freaking looking at me. I don't feel remorse, nor does my heart go out to it, there's just something creepy about dressing it to look appetizing with its once-majestic face twisted and shriveled, staring at you through cloudy, dead eyes. *shudder* Same goes for dressing and presenting a whole pig. Don't make its head look like a decoration, that's just...Tim Burton-esque macabre.




That's very true about the slaughterhouse machinery, I definitely could have found a better way to word that. I'm sure slaughterhouse workers do not suffer the same mental disconnect between meat and the animal itself just because they operate machinery instead of killing by hand. To be honest I was just getting carried away and being dramatic. I was trying to communicate the idea that an animal can be raised and slaughtered without ever really passing under human hands until they're already dead.... it is kind of amazing if you think about it!

I know what you mean about animal's heads being used as a sort of decoration. It seems a bit twisted. I think the fact that it creeps us out is evidence of that disconnect - I don't like to be reminded that what I'm eating was once running or swimming around.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Oct 15, 2009)

Esther said:


> People may argue that human beings were meant to eat meat... but they were also meant to hunt and kill it themselves.



I have wondered about this. I know hunters who claim humans are predators "by nature," but I find it hard to believe. There's our teeth, for one thing. Every carnivore I've ever seen (including raccoons and skunks) has a sizable set of very sharp canines: OUR dog teeth are tiny, and I don't see how they ever ripped raw flesh efficiently. My guess is that _homo sapiens_ became a meat-eater by scavenging: by the time some sabertooth's dinner had ripened enough for us to track it down by smell, it would have gotten soft enough for us to chew it. Also, the sabretooth would have already done the hard part -- an early example of outsourcing.


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## Saoirse (Oct 15, 2009)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I have wondered about this. I know hunters who claim humans are predators "by nature," but I find it hard to believe. There's our teeth, for one thing. Every carnivore I've ever seen (including raccoons and skunks) has a sizable set of very sharp canines: OUR dog teeth are tiny, and I don't see how they ever ripped raw flesh efficiently. My guess is that _homo sapiens_ became a meat-eater by scavenging: by the time some sabertooth's dinner had ripened enough for us to track it down by smell, it would have gotten soft enough for us to chew it. Also, the sabretooth would have already done the hard part -- an early example of outsourcing.



Ugh. I know I already kicked myself out of this thread. BUT-

This is true. At least from what I've learned. Early humans were actually more vegetarians. Mostly because they hadn't learned how to hunt. The majority of our teeth are the teeth of vegetarians.


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## katorade (Oct 16, 2009)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I have wondered about this. I know hunters who claim humans are predators "by nature," but I find it hard to believe. There's our teeth, for one thing. Every carnivore I've ever seen (including raccoons and skunks) has a sizable set of very sharp canines: OUR dog teeth are tiny, and I don't see how they ever ripped raw flesh efficiently. My guess is that _homo sapiens_ became a meat-eater by scavenging: by the time some sabertooth's dinner had ripened enough for us to track it down by smell, it would have gotten soft enough for us to chew it. Also, the sabretooth would have already done the hard part -- an early example of outsourcing.



Actually, we are designed to be omnivorous. We _do_ have a combination of canines and grinding teeth, not just a series of grinding teeth and flat teeth meant to strip stems of leaves. 

If you want any more proof, look at our closest relatives, chimpanzees. They are also omnivorous and have incredibly similar skulls and jaws, and hunt in packs.

If you want an example of an animal that has sharp canines but DOESN'T eat meat, look at the Panda or the Koala. Both survive on one variety of vegetation that does not necessitate needing canine teeth, but they have them anyway.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Oct 16, 2009)

Kato, I'm with you 100% (if I were a football coach, I'd probably say 200% ). We're certainly omnivores, and we're designed, like chimps, to eat meat along with a lot of other things. What I find hard to accept is some folks' belief that we are designed to be fearsome predators, a la T. rex. I suspect our ancestors' diet was a lot like that of chimps today: mainly fruit and vegetables, flavored by bugs, small reptiles, birds' eggs and baby birds, and the occasional vervet monkey who proved to be a little too slow.


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## Miss Vickie (Oct 16, 2009)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I have wondered about this. I know hunters who claim humans are predators "by nature," but I find it hard to believe. There's our teeth, for one thing. Every carnivore I've ever seen (including raccoons and skunks) has a sizable set of very sharp canines: OUR dog teeth are tiny, and I don't see how they ever ripped raw flesh efficiently. My guess is that _homo sapiens_ became a meat-eater by scavenging: by the time some sabertooth's dinner had ripened enough for us to track it down by smell, it would have gotten soft enough for us to chew it. Also, the sabretooth would have already done the hard part -- an early example of outsourcing.



I think this is pretty much the thought process of those who study such things -- that early humans were at first scavengers until we had the brain power (obtained through animal protein -- so the theory goes) to make tools. Once we had tools, and were capable of abstract thought, it leveled the playing field.

My hubby, the Dental Dude, says that there's a school of thought among dental professionals that our canines aren't used for tearing flesh but also for providing lateral guidance and disclusion to our bite; the crown to root ratio in human canine teeth is far different from that of carnivores. Why disclusion? Our jaw muscles are able to exert many hundreds of psi of force and could easily shatter our teeth. The canines provide guidance as we chew, allowing our teeth to separate when necessary to protect those back teeth.

We also have the GI tract of omnivores, not herbivores. Animal cell membranes are much easier to break down, as opposed to plant cell walls. The many stomachs or cecum of herbivores allow for food to be moved back and forth until it's broken down and the nutrients extracted. Humans don't have a cecum, but instead have a stomach with a low pH which is ideal for breaking down the bonds that hold proteins together; this is ideal for breaking down protein from animal cells. Unfortunately, the cellulose in plant cells isn't broken down until far down in the gut, which minimizes the time our bodies have to extract those long chain proteins and then break them down into smaller and smaller protein bits. 

So yes, while there is protein in beans, rice, and many other foods, it's debatable (and variable) how much is actually absorbed and utilized. The absorption of long chain proteins through the GI membrane into the bloodstream contributes to food allergies, so that's another consideration.

I'm sure that lots of people do just fine and feel healthy while not eating meat. But depending on their ethnicity (in general, people of Asian descent have an easier time extracting protein from vegetable sources because they have adapted that ability over time -- or else Caucasians have lost it, which is possible, too), some people can't absorb protein from even the "best" non-animal food sources. 

And BTW, one of the first signs of protein deficiency that The Dental Dude has noticed? Gum bleeding and recession without plaque. He's seen people who are vegetarians and otherwise healthy who have advanced periodontal disease, despite brushing and flossing. Why? Because when the body doesn't have enough protein, the gums are one of the first places it robs in order to keep the necessary muscles like the heart going.

This doesn't mean we need to go "whole hog" (so to speak!) and eat a ton of protein; we probably eat too much in our diet. But given our biology, it definitely seems that we are, to an extent, designed to eat a certain amount of meat.


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## Esther (Oct 16, 2009)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I have wondered about this. I know hunters who claim humans are predators "by nature," but I find it hard to believe. There's our teeth, for one thing. Every carnivore I've ever seen (including raccoons and skunks) has a sizable set of very sharp canines: OUR dog teeth are tiny, and I don't see how they ever ripped raw flesh efficiently. My guess is that _homo sapiens_ became a meat-eater by scavenging: by the time some sabertooth's dinner had ripened enough for us to track it down by smell, it would have gotten soft enough for us to chew it. Also, the sabretooth would have already done the hard part -- an early example of outsourcing.




Interesting, I never thought about that!


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## katorade (Oct 16, 2009)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Kato, I'm with you 100% (if I were a football coach, I'd probably say 200% ). We're certainly omnivores, and we're designed, like chimps, to eat meat along with a lot of other things. What I find hard to accept is some folks' belief that we are designed to be fearsome predators, a la T. rex. I suspect our ancestors' diet was a lot like that of chimps today: mainly fruit and vegetables, flavored by bugs, small reptiles, birds' eggs and baby birds, and the occasional vervet monkey who proved to be a little too slow.



Definitely, which is why I have to roll my eyes when people say humans are carnivorous out of anything more than jest. It's like they don't think omnivores exist! The bulk of our diet is supposed to be from vegetation, while being supplemented with moderate amounts of protein AND fats. I mean, look at the revised food pyramid. It's like a 70/30 split of veg to meat.

BTW, I had some FANTASTIC vegetarian chili last night. It was quasi-Cincinnati style with cinnamon sticks in it rather than cumin. From now on I am decreeing in my world that all chili needs to have sweet corn in it.


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## Friday (Oct 18, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> I think this is pretty much the thought process of those who study such things -- that early humans were at first scavengers until we had the brain power (obtained through animal protein -- so the theory goes) to make tools. Once we had tools, and were capable of abstract thought, it leveled the playing field.
> 
> My hubby, the Dental Dude, says that there's a school of thought among dental professionals that our canines aren't used for tearing flesh but also for providing lateral guidance and disclusion to our bite; the crown to root ratio in human canine teeth is far different from that of carnivores. Why disclusion? Our jaw muscles are able to exert many hundreds of psi of force and could easily shatter our teeth. The canines provide guidance as we chew, allowing our teeth to separate when necessary to protect those back teeth.
> 
> ...



Thanks Vickie and thank the Dude for his info. When my mother lost most of her intestines to a blood clot animal products were the only things left that her stomach and the few inches of intestine she had left could draw nourishment from. Vegetables and fruit went through her without stopping, literally. Had she not been able to take numerous vitamin supplements she would have died of some wierd vitamin deficiency.


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## JMNYC (Oct 18, 2009)

I am vegan for two years and veganism has returned me to a place of sanity with food. It fits me like a perfect pair of shoes and I'm sorry I didn't go for it 10 years ago.


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## MsGreenLantern (Oct 26, 2009)

Friday said:


> Thanks Vickie and thank the Dude for his info. When my mother lost most of her intestines to a blood clot animal products were the only things left that her stomach and the few inches of intestine she had left could draw nourishment from. Vegetables and fruit went through her without stopping, literally. Had she not been able to take numerous vitamin supplements she would have died of some wierd vitamin deficiency.



Similarly, though not as drastically, I have a very very difficult time digesting fibrous plant matter [lettuces, spinach, dark vegetation of any sort. Seaweed never gets past my stomach and comes back out that way]. Basically meats and starches are the only things that go through properly most times, since fruit also has a very... unpleasant... effect on the human body when taken in excess. I'm glad someone pointed out the solid human biological FACTS about the species being omnivorous.


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## ohiofa (Aug 7, 2013)

I love meat! Count me as a major carnivore!!


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## Yakatori (Aug 7, 2013)

I like meat a lot as well. & a wide variety of seafood.

And yet, I tend to think that if I just met the right person....or living situation...that could totally change.


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## Rojodi (Aug 7, 2013)

I'm an omnivore: I like both meat and vegetables and fruits and and and


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## Iannathedriveress (Aug 7, 2013)

Im myself an omnivore, a bit more on the meat side though


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## EMH1701 (Aug 8, 2013)

I'm an omnivore. I personally think life is too short to not eat what you like from time to time. I've been on a vegetarian diet and it lasted about 6 months. Most of the vegetarian meat replacements on the market just have no flavor. I went to the local health food store and tried quite a few different brands. If they could make a meat replacement that actually tasted like the real thing, and vegan cheese replacements that tasted more like the real thing, I think a lot more people would be vegetarians/vegans.

That being said, one of my favorite dishes is vegan since it uses all veggies and olive oil: ratatouille.


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## Tracyarts (Aug 8, 2013)

Omnivore, but I do eat a lot of vegetarian and vegan meals.


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## Saoirse (Aug 8, 2013)

Mostly the ol' meat and potatoes, but I get tons of free, yummy macrobiotic meals, which is mostly vegan.


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## CastingPearls (Aug 8, 2013)

I eat meat like I have a personal problem with animals. 

I had a protein deficiency. In fact, I was hospitalized for it, as well as severe anemia, enough to start transfusing six units in the ER, and no, I wasn't bleeding out anywhere. I'd stopped producing blood. 

I love vegetables and fruit and I eat salads like, well, like my avatar, Clementine, but they go right through me more often than not. I've never had any gastric surgery. In fact, I've never had any surgery, ever. My medical team (I was in and out of the hospital for two years and am still recovering six years later) says I have to have protein and it must be animal protein, so I eat it. With gusto.


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## agnieszka (Aug 13, 2013)

vegan, for last 3 months and slowly going to no added fat vegan


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## Ashley1985 (Aug 13, 2013)

I rarely eat meat or chicken (maybe once a year) but only because of diet/calorie concerns - I am no animal loving activist. I don't really like most fish/seafood either.


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## Saoirse (Aug 13, 2013)

Ashley1985 said:


> I rarely eat meat or chicken (maybe once a year) but only because of diet/calorie concerns - I am no animal loving activist. I don't really like most fish/seafood either.



Well even animal-loving activists eat meat. We're more concerned about the horrific conditions of factory farms.


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## Diana_Prince245 (Aug 13, 2013)

Saoirse said:


> Well even animal-loving activists eat meat. We're more concerned about the horrific conditions of factory farms.



This, so this.


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## Rojodi (Aug 15, 2013)

Like a chalkboard on tv once said:

Eating a vegetarian dinner is a missed steak


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## SprocketRocket (Aug 28, 2013)

I identify myself as a meat-eating carnivore. I love meat.

I eat vegetables and fruits too, sometimes. Just not nearly as much as the carbs and sustinence of meat.

Though I have known some vegans who are pretty darn healthy. Got turned off to it from tofu and faux-fu chocolates and things of that nature.. no thank you on the sushi! Also not much of a fish guy, though fish is meat.


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## FatAndProud (Aug 29, 2013)

I don't eat much meat because I don't care for the textures and how lethargic I feel after. Veggies, soy-based products and lean meats are generally my choice. I don't label myself as a vegetarian, but I respect their tenacity.

I'd love to find decent vegan recipes that didn't call for rare ingredients. I've begun cooking with ground flaxseed and other "hippie" ingredients. I feel better, my skin/nails get better, I think quicker, etc. when I eat my veggies. I try to grow most of my veggies as I don't care for GMO veg.


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## CleverBomb (Aug 29, 2013)

I'm an om-nom-nom-nom-nivore.


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## Jon Blaze (Sep 7, 2013)

Definitely a meat fan in most forms, but not a vegetarian hater or troll. Meat and vegetables go together for me in most cases. I'm personally experimenting with a lower grain diet (that isn't low carb) lately, but it's really no big deal. Occasionally I will troll some of my coworkers for not liking vegetables or fruit (all males ), but that's all.


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## toni (Sep 8, 2013)

MEAT MEAT MEAT and some pizza lol
Keep the ugly veggies AWAY


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## Jah (Sep 8, 2013)

I was a vegan for a while. It isn't easy, especially when living in a small town with hardly any vegetarian food available and I'm not a good cook.


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## Fuzzy (Sep 8, 2013)

Omnivore. I'll try anything twice.


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## veggieforever (Sep 8, 2013)

*The screen name speaks for itself! lol I am a very proud, animal kissing, tree hugging, flag waving Vegan. I was an Ethical Vegetarian for over ten years before before becoming an Ethical Vegan and I have never felt as AMAZING and HEALTHY as I do now! I have never eaten as widely or diversely being Vegan as I ever did when I was Omnivorous as a child and teenager. It truly opened up my food world in the most awesome way. My favourite room in my house is the kitchen and I am none so happy as when I am making some truly delicious Vegan meals, treats, ice creams etc etc the list goes on and on! :eat1:
I have to also say to everyone looking to make different and healthier meals or just to get ideas for a "Meatless Monday" then to mosey on over to Youtube and look up The Vegan Zombie and also The Edgy Veg (A stunning blonde called Candice too btw!). Both there are Vegan cooking channels with the most amazing food and treat ideas. I have nothing but praise for their creations and they are just so funny and entertaining. Please have a look and see what amazing yummie nibbles you can make for friends and family and surprise yourself and see just how varied and exciting (as well as kind and compassionate) Vegan cooking actually is! *


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## agnieszka (Sep 8, 2013)

veggieforever said:


> *The screen name speaks for itself! lol I am a very proud, animal kissing, tree hugging, flag waving Vegan. I was an Ethical Vegetarian for over ten years before before becoming an Ethical Vegan and I have never felt as AMAZING and HEALTHY as I do now! I have never eaten as widely or diversely being Vegan as I ever did when I was Omnivorous as a child and teenager. It truly opened up my food world in the most awesome way. My favourite room in my house is the kitchen and I am none so happy as when I am making some truly delicious Vegan meals, treats, ice creams etc etc the list goes on and on! :eat1:
> I have to also say to everyone looking to make different and healthier meals or just to get ideas for a "Meatless Monday" then to mosey on over to Youtube and look up The Vegan Zombie and also The Edgy Veg (A stunning blonde called Candice too btw!). Both there are Vegan cooking channels with the most amazing food and treat ideas. I have nothing but praise for their creations and they are just so funny and entertaining. Please have a look and see what amazing yummie nibbles you can make for friends and family and surprise yourself and see just how varied and exciting (as well as kind and compassionate) Vegan cooking actually is! *



Neat loaf rulezzz


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## veggieforever (Sep 8, 2013)

agnieszka said:


> Neat loaf rulezzz



*Totally! lol I have made that twice in the last couple of weeks and it was so scrummy :eat2: I also adored The Vegans Zombies macaroni "cheese" recipe and his Seitan "not dogs" haha!  Lovin' it! Oh there are just so many deelish recipes to choose from on his channel plus its just so well made as well as soooo much fun! 
You Vegan Agnieszka or just open to any new foods? x*


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## agnieszka (Sep 8, 2013)

veggieforever said:


> *Totally! lol I have made that twice in the last couple of weeks and it was so scrummy :eat2: I also adored The Vegans Zombies macaroni "cheese" recipe and his Seitan "not dogs" haha!  Lovin' it! Oh there are just so many deelish recipes to choose from on his channel plus its just so well made as well as soooo much fun!
> You Vegan Agnieszka or just open to any new foods? x*



Definitely vegan and going fat free (Susan Voisin helps alot tho my creations don't look as appealing as hers) ;-)


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## Mckee (Sep 9, 2013)

Not vegan, I'm omnivore, but I like try new things in the kitchen. I have tried a couple of recipes from Vegan Zombie...pretty good! :eat2:


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## FatAndProud (Sep 16, 2013)

Can anyone help me with easy and tasty quinoa dishes? I love using quinoa in place of rice.


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## FatAndProud (Mar 12, 2014)

Been going raw for a week and a half. I miss carbs. I miss meat. I would literally eat a cow, but I'm going to tread through this. I know it's because I'm used to the SAD diet (Standard American Diet) lol.


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## Markt (Mar 13, 2014)

vegan for 10 years.


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## lille (Mar 13, 2014)

Pescetarian


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## CameoRose (Mar 14, 2014)

I've gone from vegetarian to vegan then back to vegetarian. Currently I'm mostly vegan. If I have any dairy it's only 1x a month or so and I never eat eggs. I feel better spiritually if I stick to vegan


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## BigCutieAspen (Mar 16, 2014)

cant go without meat! with veggies here and there


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## x0emnem0x (Mar 17, 2014)

Definitely a carnivore. I cannot live without meat. Meat and potatoes, meat and veggies, or just plain ol' meat. I just can't. A juicy steak or some grilled chicken... oh my goodness!


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## nugget34 (Mar 17, 2014)

Feed the man meat:eat1:


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## it's only me (Mar 17, 2014)

I plan is one of these days going vegan, right now I'm trying to take baby steps, when I say baby steps I mean(SMALL baby steps).


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