# Being a FA a sexual issue?



## Webmaster (Jun 24, 2010)

Whenever there's an issue over FAs' commitment to size acceptance, there'll inevitably be the charge that FAs are only in it for sexual reasons. From there, things then quickly degenerate into name calling, insinuations, etc., etc.

In my personal experience over the past gawd knows how many decades, nothing could be farther from the truth. In my time at NAAFA, I saw FAs of both genders among the most reliable, tireless and dedicated volunteers and supporters of the movement. While many fat people dropped out when they decided to lose weight or found a significant other, that did not apply to FAs. 

In my own experience, being attracted to fatness and feeling outrage at the shabby treatment afforded to fat people always went hand in hand. It seemed self-evident to me that there should be a size acceptance movement long before I discovered that there actually was (a fledgling) one.

Likewise, while having a fat partner is certainly our sexual preference, fatness itself and a fat partner are about so much more than just eroticism. I find the visuals of a fat body endlessly pleasing, the feel of a fat body warm and comforting in a way that never loses its awesomeness. There are forces at work here that far transcend the mere sexual.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 24, 2010)

Webmaster said:


> Whenever there's an issue over FAs' commitment to size acceptance, there'll inevitably be the charge that FAs are only in it for sexual reasons. From there, things then quickly degenerate into name calling, insinuations, etc., etc.
> 
> In my personal experience over the past gawd knows how many decades, nothing could be farther from the truth. In my time at NAAFA, I saw FAs of both genders among the most reliable, tireless and dedicated volunteers and supporters of the movement. While many fat people dropped out when they decided to lose weight or found a significant other, that did not apply to FAs.
> 
> ...


 
I don't doubt that this is true, within the context of a size acceptance movement like NAAFA. Here at Dimensions, a great deal of discussion revolves around sex/sexuality, and many of the FA's do, in fact, seem overtly focused on that aspect. 

Sure, there are fat men and women who decide to lose weight and then 'abandon' the movement. I'm sure that statistically, though, they are no more significant than an FA who is only interested in sex with fat men or women.


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## Blackjack (Jun 24, 2010)

Webmaster said:


> In my own experience, being attracted to fatness and feeling outrage at the shabby treatment afforded to fat people always went hand in hand.



Very much agreed, although I admit that I didn't fully realize this until after I knew what I was attracted to and aroused by. I came into this whole thing because for sexual reasons; but I promote size acceptance because it's the right thing to do. It would be regardless of what turns me on, but now I've got a more personal reason to support it as well.


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## msbard90 (Jun 24, 2010)

Webmaster said:


> Whenever there's an issue over FAs' commitment to size acceptance, there'll inevitably be the charge that FAs are only in it for sexual reasons. From there, things then quickly degenerate into name calling, insinuations, etc., etc.
> 
> In my personal experience over the past gawd knows how many decades, nothing could be farther from the truth. In my time at NAAFA, I saw FAs of both genders among the most reliable, tireless and dedicated volunteers and supporters of the movement. While many fat people dropped out when they decided to lose weight or found a significant other, that did not apply to FAs.
> 
> ...



In my opinion, and possibly in the opinions of others, being an FA is a sexual thing. FA's like the physical appearance of fat on others, plain and simple. Granted there are FA's who are dedicated to promoting the ideals of size acceptance- however, I'd say the majority of FA posters and lurkers on this site are here primarily for the sexual aspect. Many BBW and BHM get PM'ed by FA's who are more than offensive; I know this because I've had my share of creepers contacting me, asking about my size and if I want to gain and how sexy I am. It gives FA's a bad name. It really truly does. 

So basically, its not FAs in general getting the bad reputation, its just the ones on here and other boards on the internet.


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## joswitch (Jun 24, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> In my opinion, and possibly in the opinions of others, being an FA is a sexual thing. FA's like the physical appearance of fat on others, plain and simple. Granted there are FA's who are dedicated to promoting the ideals of size acceptance- however, I'd say the majority of FA posters and lurkers on this site are here primarily for the sexual aspect. Many BBW and BHM get PM'ed by FA's who are more than offensive; I know this because I've had my share of creepers contacting me, asking about my size and if I want to gain and how sexy I am. It gives FA's a bad name. It really truly does.
> 
> So basically, its not FAs in general getting the bad reputation, its just the ones on here and other boards on the internet.



Not all creeps are FAs.
Not all FAs are creeps.
Not all creeps are on the internet.. just most of them!


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## wrestlingguy (Jun 24, 2010)

I think any generalizations about different groups in this "community" known as Dimensions does a disservice to those who make them.

While there may be an element of truth to Msbard90's statement about the FA's who lurk here, and on other forums, I think that the responses made by both BlackJack and joswitch have some merit as well.

For me, here's the thing. The guys who will argue that FA's are in the size acceptance movement are the guys who are posting here that they are in fact, in the size acceptance movement. The rest of them are guests that scour the boards for pron, plain and simple.

It reminds me of when we were in the planning stages for one of the New Jersey Bashes, and a suggestion was made that we have a FA roundtable discussion about Bash Etiquette, how to approach women at the dance, talking with women in chat who are attending, etc.

My response was, and I still believe this, is that the guys who would attend this wouldn't really need the help, and the ones who did would be hitting up the ladies all weekend, and would be too busy to think about bash etiquette. It's very similar to what goes on here, and while it seems bad to many of you, it's not all FA's that could care less about size acceptance, just most.


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## Jon Blaze (Jun 24, 2010)

I agree with what Phil said.

I think the argument isn't so much to say that being an fa isn't solely a sexual issue, but that the notion that the only reason someone that is an FA would fight for size acceptance is for sexual reasons is flawed and inaccurate.


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## Fat Brian (Jun 24, 2010)

First, there are trolls and pervs of every persuasion, Fas didn't invent interwebs trolling.

This goes back to something I had posted elsewhere, most fat people don't necessarily want to be fat and if they want badly enough to change it they will find a way. Fas, on the other hand, tend to like fatness for life. If they are of the socially aware sort they will involve themselves in some type of fat activism. As a fat FA I'm somewhat of a rarity and I engage in appropriate activism not only because of my attraction but also due to personal need.


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## toni (Jun 24, 2010)

In my experience most FA's are not very nice. The ones that have crossed my path are almost always in it for sex. They are usually married/dating a skinny chick and want to live out fantasies with a fatty. It is very upsetting. I constantly hear (and can tell my own) stories of how these men have dogged friends of mine. It makes me so angry! I definitely keep my guard up when I meet a self proclaimed "FA" in real life. 

You can not imagine all the disgusting emails, IM's and requests I get online from "FAs". I had to put all my contacts on a private list because I could not deal with it anymore. It repulses me. 

Of course not all "FAs" are like the ones I described. The ones that actively participate (not just the paysite board) in the community are usually always respectful and caring. It is a breath of fresh air. 

I remember at one of the bashes we all went out to eat. They had to sit some of us at booths. With out hesitation the "FAs" got up and took the booth seating. What a WOW moment. They knew our needs and acted on it without missing a beat. If this happened in any other group setting there would have been a lot of embarrassment or discomfort. If all "FAs" were like them, there would be so many happy fat people in the world.


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## AnnMarie (Jun 24, 2010)

I'm sorry that's your experience, Toni. It's not mine and I'm very thankful for that. 

Sure, I've run across assholes online, but I don't care what they think they are - they're not FAs, they're just random guys trying screw someone, fat, thin, tall, short, white, black, whatever - if you have the right parts, they'll try to do you. 

The FAs I know aren't perfect men - perfect doesn't exist, but they're good men who have interests and desires in life and women that go well beyond fat. They're friends, partners of friends, exes, etc... again, they're not Knights in Shining Armor, but they're well-meaning and engaged. Mix that all in with attraction and some chemistry? Yes, please.


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## toni (Jun 24, 2010)

AnnMarie said:


> I'm sorry that's your experience, Toni. It's not mine and I'm very thankful for that.
> 
> Sure, I've run across assholes online, but I don't care what they think they are - they're not FAs, they're just random guys trying screw someone, fat, thin, tall, short, white, black, whatever - if you have the right parts, they'll try to do you.
> 
> The FAs I know aren't perfect men - perfect doesn't exist, but they're good men who have interests and desires in life and women that go well beyond fat. They're friends, partners of friends, exes, etc... again, they're not Knights in Shining Armor, but they're well-meaning and engaged. Mix that all in with attraction and some chemistry? Yes, please.



Great! I am happy for you. 

They are assholes online and I don't pay them any attention. I have strict rules and I do not date online. However, it is so common I had to mention it. 

I am glad YOU don't feel they are FAs however they identify with it. They use the word and they are out there targeting fat chicks. If you want to ignore the negative side. That is on you. 

I like to keep a realistic view of the world. I gave the pros and the cons of both sides. I will recognize both good and bad qualities. 

I am an adult and not searching for a knight in shinning armor. I am not perfect and expect perfection from no one.


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## LoveBHMS (Jun 25, 2010)

Well you can easily argue that being gay is only a sexual issue, but that doesn't stop gay activism. The only difference between a homosexual or heterosexual is what you're attracted to. There are straight men and women who support gay rights, not because it affects them but because they disagree with discrimination based on sexual orientation.



> While many fat people dropped out when they decided to lose weight or found a significant other, that did not apply to FAs.



Fat people can stop being fat but FAs are not going to stop being FAs.

But about the sex/activism thing, there are also gays who pointedly don't go to pride marches or call their congressman about LGBT matters because they believe their sexuality is just that, sexuality, and not a civil rights statement. Being an FA is just how you are, it's not something you choose. I disagree with the idea that you're somehow expected to pay for your innate sexuality by boycotting Southwest or writing your state representative to encourage passage of a size discrimination law. 

I also don't think you need to rationalize your attitudes towards SA or towards FA as a "sexual thing". What matters is how you treat others. Sending rude emails or PMs, cheating on your wife, or being dishonest and manipulative are all wrong simply because they're wrong. They're not more or less wrong when done by an FA in pursuit of sexual gratification.

What would fascinate the heck out of me is if there were a fat woman married to an honest, respectful, faithful man who was not an FA who went to bashes just to find an FA who'd get off on grabbing her fat rolls or indulging in fat talk. There was a post on the BBW board about a woman who worried because her partner *didn't* see her as a sex object and nonwithstanding his love for her as an individual, she wanted to be seen as sexual and desirable for her body. If there are FA married to skinny women who they're not sexually attracted to it should stand to reason there are fat women married to non-FA who are not sexually attracted to them.


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## willowmoon (Jun 25, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> In my opinion, and possibly in the opinions of others, being an FA is a sexual thing. FA's like the physical appearance of fat on others, plain and simple. Granted there are FA's who are dedicated to promoting the ideals of size acceptance- however, I'd say the majority of FA posters and lurkers on this site are here primarily for the sexual aspect. Many BBW and BHM get PM'ed by FA's who are more than offensive; I know this because I've had my share of creepers contacting me, asking about my size and if I want to gain and how sexy I am. It gives FA's a bad name. It really truly does.
> 
> So basically, its not FAs in general getting the bad reputation, its just the ones on here and other boards on the internet.



Gotta agree with msbard90 regarding the bulk of FA posters & lurkers on here. Heck, when you see that the majority of them are on the paysite boards section, it tells you something. Right now at 8:37 am, there's 219 people on the paysite boards section while the "Main Dimensions" board is only at 25 people. 

I feel bad for the women that get harrassed out here by creepy guys that contact them and make comments that are sexual in nature. My guess is these guys wouldn't make such comments to just anyone if they were out in public at a bar or something (but then again, who knows, maybe they might). 

So, a message from me to THOSE types of guys out there: just because you're on the internet doesn't give you the right to be disrespectful to these women -- after all, they are real people, just like you are. Show some f**king class.


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## Fat Brian (Jun 25, 2010)

You might need to post that on the paysite side for maximum effect.


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## willowmoon (Jun 25, 2010)

Fat Brian said:


> You might need to post that on the paysite side for maximum effect.



Yeah, good point. But then again, since there's nothing on my profile about squashing & facesitting, I'd largely be ignored.


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## LoveBHMS (Jun 25, 2010)

willowmoon said:


> Gotta agree with msbard90 regarding the bulk of FA posters & lurkers on here. Heck, when you see that the majority of them are on the paysite boards section, it tells you something. Right now at 8:37 am, there's 219 people on the paysite boards section while the "Main Dimensions" board is only at 25 people.
> 
> I feel bad for the women that get harrassed out here by creepy guys that contact them and make comments that are sexual in nature. My guess is these guys wouldn't make such comments to just anyone if they were out in public at a bar or something (but then again, who knows, maybe they might).
> 
> So, a message from me to THOSE types of guys out there: just because you're on the internet doesn't give you the right to be disrespectful to these women -- after all, they are real people, just like you are. Show some f**king class.



Except that dims isn't the real world, it's the internet. And it's a funny internet place at that. Telling somebody their weight gain looks great would not happen in the real world. Nobody in the real world posts side by side photgraphs to show off how fat they've gotten and receives wolf whistles and compliments for it. Paysite girls in the real world don't weigh upwards of 500 pounds. I get my own share of creepers being an FFA/feeder but I dont' expect to come to an adult website and talk about how hot feederism is and be able to avoid the creeps.

And while i know not everyone is here for the sexual aspect of this site, the sexual aspect is here and it's prevalent. I'm not talking about fetishism, just the fact that this IS a site limited to adults, there is a paysite forum and there are boards regarding sexuality. It is an adult site and site visitors are going to be unable to distinguish who's here for reasons different from their own.


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## Blackjack (Jun 25, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> Except that dims isn't the real world, it's the internet. And it's a funny internet place at that. Telling somebody their weight gain looks great would not happen in the real world. Nobody in the real world posts side by side photgraphs to show off how fat they've gotten and receives wolf whistles and compliments for it. Paysite girls in the real world don't weigh upwards of 500 pounds.



In other news, members of Dimensions do not exist in reality, and any photographs of them are fabrications and manipulations. The bulk of the membership is made up of "ghosts in the machine"- random bits of code become sentient that seem to like fat girls.

Oh, and all those times that I've met 450+ lb girls (including paysite models) and said they look great and all that is a figment of my imagination, a hallucination brought on by an inability to cope with the tragic realities of my life.


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## chicken legs (Jun 25, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> It reminds me of when we were in the planning stages for one of the New Jersey Bashes, and a suggestion was made that we have a FA roundtable discussion about Bash Etiquette, how to approach women at the dance, talking with women in chat who are attending, etc.
> 
> My response was, and I still believe this, is that the guys who would attend this wouldn't really need the help, and the ones who did would be hitting up the ladies all weekend, and would be too busy to think about bash etiquette. It's very similar to what goes on here, and while it seems bad to many of you, it's not all FA's that could care less about size acceptance, just most.



I think its just more of a guy thing..not just FA. I was rather shocked that a lot of the single BHM's don't care about SA either. They are just looking for FFA's(or FA's). When I posted I was single I got tons of Bhm's coming out of the woodwork. Thats when I took notice of the "view count bar" in comparison to the actual number of posts.


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## chicken legs (Jun 25, 2010)

toni said:


> In my experience most FA's are not very nice. The ones that have crossed my path are almost always in it for sex. They are usually married/dating a skinny chick and want to live out fantasies with a fatty. It is very upsetting. I constantly hear (and can tell my own) stories of how these men have dogged friends of mine. It makes me so angry! I definitely keep my guard up when I meet a self proclaimed "FA" in real life.
> .



I was surprised to find other FFA's but I was even more surprised that there was a term to described my brothers..Closet FA's..yikes. Honestly, my brothers and I don't talk because they get tired of me calling them on their bs and I am tired of being associated with them. Its a small town when your a native.


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## LoveBHMS (Jun 25, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> In other news, members of Dimensions do not exist in reality, and any photographs of them are fabrications and manipulations. The bulk of the membership is made up of "ghosts in the machine"- random bits of code become sentient that seem to like fat girls.
> 
> Oh, and all those times that I've met 450+ lb girls (including paysite models) and said they look great and all that is a figment of my imagination, a hallucination brought on by an inability to cope with the tragic realities of my life.



I was talking about this particular venue, not how individuals think or act in the real world.


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## Blackjack (Jun 25, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> I was talking about this particular venue, not how individuals think or act in the real world.



Except that this stuff _does _happen "in the real world", not just on the internet.


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## LoveBHMS (Jun 25, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> Except that this stuff _does _happen "in the real world", not just on the internet.



It happens in the real world within the community, not within the day to day lives of the average non-east coast dwelling non-plugged into the bash circuit FA. For most FA, they are not going to be in situations where they can tell women how fabulous they look with the fifty pounds they just gained, nor can they share those thoughts with other men. If a friend says she no longer fits into her size 30's, there are very few real-world situations where the guy can say how sexy that is and have the girl believe him. This is your world but it's NOT the average straight male FA's world.


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## joswitch (Jun 25, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> It happens in the real world within the community, not within the day to day lives of the average non-east coast dwelling non-plugged into the bash circuit FA. For most FA, they are not going to be in situations where they can tell women how fabulous they look with the fifty pounds they just gained, nor can they share those thoughts with other men. If a friend says she no longer fits into her size 30's, there are very few real-world situations where the guy can say how sexy that is and have the girl believe him. This is your world but it's NOT the average straight male FA's world.



not yet it's not.........................


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## Fat Brian (Jun 25, 2010)

willowmoon said:


> Yeah, good point. But then again, since there's nothing on my profile about squashing & facesitting, I'd largely be ignored.




You would need a sexy title for sure.


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## Szombathy (Jun 25, 2010)

This may be a distinction without a difference, but I guess I'd take issue with the false dichotomy between the "merely" sexual and the political. I agree that we can't reduce an attraction to fat women to simple impulses, but I also think that much of what Conrad describes as activism that goes beyond being "merely sexual" could also be described as sexual. There's nothing "mere" about sexuality, I think, since even for the fappiest of paysite contributors sexuality is not just about physicality but is an extremely complex mental construct of one's own identity based on a sense of self-esteem or lack thereof, a conglomeration of memories of past happiness and past gratification, and a sense of self-expression. If we take a positive view of sex, I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that size acceptance activism evolves from a sexual place in FAs.


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## musicman (Jun 25, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> I also don't think you need to rationalize your attitudes towards SA or towards FA as a "sexual thing". What matters is how you treat others. Sending rude emails or PMs, cheating on your wife, or being dishonest and manipulative are all wrong simply because they're wrong. They're not more or less wrong when done by an FA in pursuit of sexual gratification.



Well said.



LoveBHMS said:


> If there are FA married to skinny women who they're not sexually attracted to it should stand to reason there are fat women married to non-FA who are not sexually attracted to them.



Yes, indeed. I like to think that publicizing the SA movement, and even the existence of FAs, can help people avoid these types of mismatches. It is important for us to point out that people don't have to go through life unloved and unappreciated, despite what society and/or their parents might have drummed into them about their weight.


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## superodalisque (Jun 25, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> In my opinion, and possibly in the opinions of others, being an FA is a sexual thing. FA's like the physical appearance of fat on others, plain and simple. Granted there are FA's who are dedicated to promoting the ideals of size acceptance- however, I'd say the majority of FA posters and lurkers on this site are here primarily for the sexual aspect. Many BBW and BHM get PM'ed by FA's who are more than offensive; I know this because I've had my share of creepers contacting me, asking about my size and if I want to gain and how sexy I am. It gives FA's a bad name. It really truly does.
> 
> So basically, its not FAs in general getting the bad reputation, its just the ones on here and other boards on the internet.



i can agree with this to a large extent. and also there many who are at the forefront of SA aren't always what they appear to be on the surface. they purposefully cultivate the good guy image verbally and virtually but IRL their actions don't always live up to the hype. its inevitable, relationships can be messy. unfortunately a messy relationship involving people where fat is such a central issue is going to impact on how FAs are perceived when it comes to their dedication. thats why i feel its very hard for FAs to be taken very seriously in SA. what you know, feel and understand intellectually does not always apply when it comes to emotions and actions. 

lets face it, BBWs and SSBBWs especially are very hard to find. where else can guys have access to that number in one place at one time. i actually empathize because most SSBBWs don't come out from hiding much in real life. things can be so tough for them physically that they find that after a day of work etc... all they can do is get home and get the shoes off etc...and they don't often take a guy seriously who approaches them in public. in a way it probably feels like a game of sexual keep away to guys. so while other men have women of their type flowing through their lives freely at every turn FAs don't. 

for a lot of guys there is nowhere but SA events or basic BBW events where they can approach them in ways where they won't be automatically rebuffed. so i think it would be entirely unrealistic for them to say that sexual drives have absolutely nothing to do with their actions thoughts and political stance when they are faced with the sudden and overwhelming availability of women of their type. i have heard too many guys say outright that if it weren't for the BBWs they wouldn't be there. there is nothing wrong with men being attracted to fat women and working on their behalf but we've got to be straight with each other if we want a good honest dialog that helps us all. i have personally never heard of or seen an SA event composed of all FAs. that would be nice if it could happen. it would probably bond them together better as well too.

underneath it all FAs are just guys. some just have more issues than most since they don't often have the confidence to go after and be comfortable with what they like when they are out in the rest of the world. then also the community has tended to coddle them and stunt their social development. i think many of them have a good heart but they are not always in control of themselves their emotions or actions. often they aren't honest with themselves about their own drives and prejudices. that doesn't make them all horrible people. but its the reality.

its natural for people to doubt you if they see you doing and hear you saying things that aren't SA. the only way to change that is to get some self discipline and to stop making excuses the way other men have had to do when they want to be taken seriously by women. BBWs are doing someone a big favor when they don't let an FA get away with inappropriate behavior and even perhaps his own socially bigoted thought processes just as BBWs sometimes have. anyone can delude themselves into thinking they are SA, especially if they aren't willing to hear a critique. prejudice can warp anyone--even the people who feel they love you most.

a lot of FAs wouldn't be so hurt by how they were perceived if they really knew what BBWs face on a daily basis from men who are supposed to admire them. FAs are human. they aren't perfect. they aren't supermen just because they enjoy us. they are just guys like any other and some have a monkey on their back that has absolutely nothing to do with their love interest being fat--then again sometimes it does. but a lot of FAs never get to see that part of other FAs because they never get shown that side. being intimately unaware would of course make a lot of FAs feel miscategorized and misunderstood. but they have to remember that a lot of BBWs know hundreds of FAs, at least online, and they ( most FAs) probably generally only know a handful and only on an acquaintance level.


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## LoveBHMS (Jun 26, 2010)

> lets face it, BBWs and SSBBWs especially are very hard to find. where else can guys have access to that number in one place at one time. i actually empathize because most SSBBWs don't come out from hiding much in real life.



You can't be serious.

See this is one of those things that if a man wrote, everyone would go batshit on him and point out all the things that SS women (and men) do every single day. SS people do all the same things everyone else does, except maybe not ballet or runway modeling. This board has even gone back and forth over the correctness of "sitings" posts where FA talk about this really fat person they saw someplace doing something. Even the controversial posts about how gross it is when fat women eat on trains or hot sexy it is when they get out of cars, they all happened because the fat people were *out from hiding.* 

They're not hard to find because they're out everywhere doing everything.


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## joswitch (Jun 26, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> You can't be serious.
> 
> See this is one of those things that if a man wrote, everyone would go batshit on him and point out all the things that SS women (and men) do every single day. SS people do all the same things everyone else does, except maybe not ballet or runway modeling. This board has even gone back and forth over the correctness of "sitings" posts where FA talk about this really fat person they saw someplace doing something. Even the controversial posts about how gross it is when fat women eat on trains or hot sexy it is when they get out of cars, they all happened because the fat people were *out from hiding.*
> 
> *They're not hard to find because they're out everywhere doing everything.*



Whether or not this is true depends very much on where in the world you live.
Contrary to the bleating of fatphobic media, big foks ARE fewer and further between outside the USA...


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## joswitch (Jun 26, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i can agree with this to a large extent. and also there many who are at the forefront of SA aren't always what they appear to be on the surface. they purposefully cultivate the good guy image verbally and virtually but IRL their actions don't always live up to the hype. its inevitable, relationships can be messy. unfortunately a messy relationship involving people where fat is such a central issue is going to impact on how FAs are perceived when it comes to their dedication. thats why i feel its very hard for FAs to be taken very seriously in SA. what you know, feel and understand intellectually does not always apply when it comes to emotions and actions.
> 
> lets face it, BBWs and SSBBWs especially are very hard to find. where else can guys have access to that number in one place at one time. i actually empathize because most SSBBWs don't come out from hiding much in real life. things can be so tough for them physically that they find that after a day of work etc... all they can do is get home and get the shoes off etc...and they don't often take a guy seriously who approaches them in public. in a way it probably feels like a game of sexual keep away to guys. so while other men have women of their type flowing through their lives freely at every turn FAs don't.
> 
> for a lot of guys there is nowhere but SA events or basic BBW events where they can approach them in ways where they won't be automatically rebuffed. so i think it would be *entirely unrealistic for them to say that sexual drives have absolutely nothing to do with their actions thoughts and political stance* when they are faced with the sudden and overwhelming availability of women of their type. i have heard too many guys say outright that if it weren't for the BBWs they wouldn't be there. there is nothing wrong with men being attracted to fat women and working on their behalf but we've got to be straight with each other if we want a good honest dialog that helps us all. i have personally never heard of or seen an SA event composed of all FAs. that would be nice if it could happen. it would probably bond them together better as well too.



^Of course - this is a standard human thing. Our sex / reproductive drives are a HUGE part of who we are. They influence EVERYTHING about us, individually and socially. So to say something is "just" a sexual issue, is an oxymoron IMO. Huge amounts of hypocritical waffle and smokescreens are in place in our society to try and deny this. Humans are not (with notable exceptions) asexual / neuter beings.

Or, to quote Chris Rock:
"_If a man could f*ck a woman in a cardboard box - he wouldn't buy a house!_"


In a nutshell, the SA movement (and FAs place in it) has fundamental differences from other civil rights movements:

- Fat people who experience prejudice against them first hand, may choose to "opt-out" / become not-fat people (perhaps at some cost in any or all of finances, health, longevity, sanity*) and may see that as an escape from both suffering prejudice and the need to fight against it.

- FAs who experience prejudice second hand against the people they love, may - through empathy - care about it just as much, and wish to fight just as strongly as fat people. But inevitably they have a different POV / perhaps a lack of understanding on any given issue affecting fat people. So they will often be seen as trying to co-opt SA and will be resented for it.
Also: FAs canNOT "opt-out" and become not-FAs, to the best of my knowledge.

So FAs are stuck bewteen a rock and a hard place as far as the SA movement is concerned. FAs who have any empathy at all will want to help. But due to the above^ may not be able to / may not be welcome to.
And unlike fat people they have no "opt-out" of this double bind.


Oh, and of course there will always be a significant number of non-empathic FAs who are quite happy to f*ck fat people without giving a crap about them AS people... But in this treatment by assholes fat people are very far from alone... pretty much everyone has to deal with / brush off these people to some extent.. Although the fat-shaming prevalent in society may make big folks more vulnerable to such assholes....


(*see also WLS, long term mortality data, Meme Roth)


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## superodalisque (Jun 26, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> You can't be serious.
> 
> See this is one of those things that if a man wrote, everyone would go batshit on him and point out all the things that SS women (and men) do every single day. SS people do all the same things everyone else does, except maybe not ballet or runway modeling. This board has even gone back and forth over the correctness of "sitings" posts where FA talk about this really fat person they saw someplace doing something. Even the controversial posts about how gross it is when fat women eat on trains or hot sexy it is when they get out of cars, they all happened because the fat people were *out from hiding.*
> 
> They're not hard to find because they're out everywhere doing everything.



some SSs do but not all. i'm an SS and have many SS friends and i know what the reality of being 400 or 500lbs is. they participate and are active. but its not all of them and not everyday. and certainly not to the extent that other women are. it would be weird to assume the world was teaming with SSs because when you go outside its not. thats part of the reason for prejudice and getting stared at in most places--because its not often common place. many SSs probably aren't hiding but some do find certain social situations difficult. the lack of appropriate accommodation also limits things. it has nothing to do with hiding really. its logistics. and thats why real SA is so important. a lot of FA truly don't understand what limits SSs. they think they do but they don't. its not so much the opinion of society but many practical realities people have to battle everyday. eating in public is not the same as not going somewhere because you are just too tired from often working in a physically painful situation all day to go to a venue where the seats are too small or uncomfortable anyway. it has nothing to do with what other people think of you but everything to do with how you feel physically. your take on what i said is a typical FA misconception. IMO for most of us its not so much about shame etc... its more about comfort and energy.


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## FA Punk (Jun 26, 2010)

You know what though a ''sexual preference'' doesn't define who I am, yeah I like fat women so what? How am I any differnt then a dude who likes chicks with big tits? I think there are too many people in this community worried about lables, at least thats what I see coming from my age group anyway.

And believe in SA btw, and even if I wasn't a so called ''FA'' I still believe in it..like someone else said it's only right.


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## superodalisque (Jun 26, 2010)

FA Punk said:


> You know what though a ''sexual preference'' doesn't define who I am, yeah I like fat women so what? How am I any differnt then a dude who likes chicks with big tits? I think there are too many people in this community worried about lables, at least thats what I see coming from my age group anyway.



yes exactly. because people are so into a sexual designation even when it comes to SA is a big part of why there is a problem. if the question had been asked about MEN supporting SA i think a lot of opinions would be different. but always couching fat politics in sexual terms is what makes people so suspect sometimes. also where does that leave men who are not FAs who might have empathy for the movement? does a man have to have a sexual drive to push him toward a human rights issue? i don't think so. its not just your age group bro.


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## superodalisque (Jun 26, 2010)

joswitch said:


> ^Of course - this is a standard human thing. Our sex / reproductive drives are a HUGE part of who we are. They influence EVERYTHING about us, individually and socially. So to say something is "just" a sexual issue, is an oxymoron IMO. Huge amounts of hypocritical waffle and smokescreens are in place in our society to try and deny this. Humans are not (with notable exceptions) asexual / neuter beings.
> 
> Or, to quote Chris Rock:
> "_If a man could f*ck a woman in a cardboard box - he wouldn't buy a house!_"
> ...




a lot of that makes perfect sense but we can't pretend that FAs have the same number of choices as other men. thats what makes their situation unique. it can intensify the usual interplay between the sexes if you don't see your type as often as you'd like. also not any old fat woman will do for an FA. there are types within types and that further narrows the spectrum. even though there are a lot more fat people here in the US that doesn't make everyone here fat. most of the time at any given moment i'm the only super in an area. even though i live in the south where there are more supers, what i like about bashes is being around a large number of women who are like me. i don;t think an FA would like it any less. if it were so totally common place i don't think any of us would feel that need.

i think many FAs care a lot but sometimes they don't quite get all of the core issues and feel picked on when fat people try to explain how they really feel. why should we have to lie about what we really think? thats what can lead people to believe that just because they are fat it doesn't really matter what they're opinions are, even about themselves. they should feel lucky to have admirers and pipe down in case they run them away.


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## msbard90 (Jun 26, 2010)

I am not understanding what the argument is about. Being an FA is a sexual thing. Its not like FA's have this preference because they are fascinated by adipose tissue and the science behind it. For the majority of FA's, fat turns them on. It doesn't even have to be the appearance entirely, but like Conrad said, the warmth and softness etc., is also a SEXUAL turn on. No need for argument. It's a sexual preference, just like any other. However, no matter the fetish/preference, if you approach a woman (irl or on the internet) by going "hey hotty girl ur soooooooo phatt i wanna c that booty jiggle", that's gonna stamp a negative stereotype on most if not all FA's. So maybe a roundtable discussion is necessary- like an internet etiquette reminder forum.


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## FA Punk (Jun 26, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> yes exactly. because people are so into a sexual designation even when it comes to SA is a big part of why there is a problem. if the question had been asked about MEN supporting SA i think a lot of opinions would be different. but always couching fat politics in sexual terms is what makes people so suspect sometimes. also where does that leave men who are not FAs who might have empathy for the movement? does a man have to have a sexual drive to push him toward a human rights issue? i don't think so. its not just your age group bro.



Thank you. I think more people in our community would do better if they kept things in more perspective, so when you think about how does paying towards a ''lable'' help you in life? When you break it down not so much, in the end we must remember people are people and to belive anything else then that is just silly, of course this is nothing bad mind you.

Something I would like to ask though and this might seem a bit off topic, but whats the ''feel'' at these bbw bashes when it comes to FAs who like to party a bit like myself? I love to flirt and be a bit of a clown so would I be shunned away? I'm not over the top by any means and when a women tells me to beat it I do so, I just I love to go to one of these bashes someday and I like to know if FAs really do get a warm welcome.


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## superodalisque (Jun 26, 2010)

FA Punk said:


> Thank you. I think more people in our community would do better if they kept things in more perspective, so when you think about how does paying towards a ''lable'' help you in life? When you break it down not so much, in the end we must remember people are people and to belive anything else then that is just silly, of course this is nothing bad mind you.
> 
> Something I would like to ask though and this might seem a bit off topic, but whats the ''feel'' at these bbw bashes when it comes to FAs who like to party a bit like myself? I love to flirt and be a bit of a clown so would I be shunned away? I'm not over the top by any means and when a women tells me to beat it I do so, I just I love to go to one of these bashes someday and I like to know if FAs really do get a warm welcome.



they get a friendly welcome in general even though there can be a little natural tension sometimes. thats why they keep going back. its nothing like the forums at all. you have to be pretty messed up to get shunned.


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## Haunted (Jun 26, 2010)

What makes a BBW/BHM Or SSBBW/SSBHM? Their Physical Size. Right? what it is that makes an FA an FA? Being attracted to Fat. most relationships start out as physical, then the deeper bonds Build as you get to know each other. so yes being and FA is sexual, but its only an issue if you make it an issue. I'd get so turned on when my girlfriend would get naked, Her size and shape is enough to make me forget my name, i get so frustrated because i do very often objectify her, and i dont want to but i honestly cant help myself, i am so physically into her that i cant not think of her sexually at times. now this is not to say that shes just a sex toy for me, we do have a deep emotional bond and as far as SA i do what i can i speak up when friends start being inconsiderate to someone whose bigger or someones whose gained weight i try to keep in mind that my gf has limitations but i also try not to act like there are things she cant do. what im trying to say is there is nothing she can't do but i know somethings are more difficult than others.

How ever you look at I love My girlfriend!! and thats it, yup she's Fat, Yup her Fat Body drives me wild! if thats wrong i dont want to be right!


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## MisterGuy (Jun 26, 2010)

toni said:


> In my experience most FA's are not very nice. The ones that have crossed my path are almost always in it for sex. They are usually married/dating a skinny chick and want to live out fantasies with a fatty. It is very upsetting. I constantly hear (and can tell my own) stories of how these men have dogged friends of mine. It makes me so angry! I definitely keep my guard up when I meet a self proclaimed "FA" in real life.
> 
> You can not imagine all the disgusting emails, IM's and requests I get online from "FAs". I had to put all my contacts on a private list because I could not deal with it anymore. It repulses me.



Some pretty serious selection bias going on here. I'm pretty sure that any woman who spends a significant time on public forums on the internet, especially on sites geared toward sex in some way (as Dimensions is), will have her fair share of penis pics in her inbox, no pun intended. Because you're fat and hang out at a pro-fat website, you think the bad behavior is specific to FAs, but it's not, just guys being assholes.


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## musicman (Jun 26, 2010)

MisterGuy said:


> Some pretty serious selection bias going on here. I'm pretty sure that any woman who spends a significant time on public forums on the internet, especially on sites geared toward sex in some way (as Dimensions is), will have her fair share of penis pics in her inbox, no pun intended. Because you're fat and hang out at a pro-fat website, you think the bad behavior is specific to FAs, but it's not, just guys being assholes.




Excellent point. I was also thinking about selection bias. Whether online or offline, fat women are very likely to be approached by FAs (both good and bad), since that is what defines an FA. Isn't that the way attraction works? If you have a certain obvious characteristic, you're going to attract people who like that characteristic.

Now mix that with the fact that, when you're seeking a romantic or sexual partner, most people you meet aren't going to be a good fit, and maybe most of them could be classified as "jerks" (especially online). The more people you meet, the more jerks you'll meet.

Some women here are constantly protesting that being fat is only one part of their "total package". By the same token, being an FA is only one part of a guy's personality. Aside from that, he might be nice or nasty, shallow or deep, interesting or dull, etc. But if you're a fat woman, a lot of the guys you meet are going to share that one particular characteristic. 

So does that mean that all FAs are jerks? Of course not. If a woman has long blonde hair, she probably attracts a lot of guys who like long blonde hair. If most of them are jerks, should she conclude that all guys who like blondes are jerks? Of course not. If a guy is a jerk, it doesn't matter what he likes. Kick him to the curb and move on.


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## superodalisque (Jun 27, 2010)

musicman said:


> Excellent point. I was also thinking about selection bias. Whether online or offline, fat women are very likely to be approached by FAs (both good and bad), since that is what defines an FA. Isn't that the way attraction works? If you have a certain obvious characteristic, you're going to attract people who like that characteristic.
> 
> Now mix that with the fact that, when you're seeking a romantic or sexual partner, most people you meet aren't going to be a good fit, and maybe most of them could be classified as "jerks" (especially online). The more people you meet, the more jerks you'll meet.
> 
> ...



this makes a lot of sense. but when you're talking about an SA movement bringing your opinions about someone's looks and your attraction to them forward too much would make people suspect your motives for being there. so as far as SA is concerned that stuff should be toned down until you are on personal time. its ok to discuss sexuality in political terms but mixing personal sexual issues in with SA is going to get you mistrusted every time.


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## Fat Brian (Jun 27, 2010)

Its true that there is a time and a place for being sexual. You can't walk around in an office environment a hit on every woman in the place if you expect to be employed there long. The same has to apply in an SA atmosphere, there will be times when flirting or sexual discussion while be appropriate and others when it won't. Most "bad" FAs or "bad" guys in general either don't know or don't care about that difference.


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## Elle*Love* (Jun 27, 2010)

Fat Brian said:


> Its true that there is a time and a place for being sexual. You can't walk around in an office environment a hit on every woman in the place if you expect to be employed there long. The same has to apply in an SA atmosphere, there will be times when flirting or sexual discussion while be appropriate and others when it won't. Most "bad" FAs or "bad" guys in general either don't know or don't care about that difference.



I'm new to this site, but as a big girl i personally like the idea that its not all about eroticism. As for the FA's trying to hook up and persuade whoever to gain weight thats ridiculous, because I'm sure most people here are comfortable the way they are. I'm at a size i'm comfortable and thats that.


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## superodalisque (Jun 27, 2010)

Elle*Love* said:


> I'm new to this site, but as a big girl i personally like the idea that its not all about eroticism. As for the FA's trying to hook up and persuade whoever to gain weight thats ridiculous, because I'm sure most people here are comfortable the way they are. I'm at a size i'm comfortable and thats that.



i'm proud of you that you're comfortable with who you are. unfortunately you aren't everyone here. there are a lot of folks still trying to find themselves both FAs FFAs BBWs and BHMs. unfortunately there are some people who would take advantage of exactly those people because they aren't self aware enough to know which people to discard and which they shouldn't. there are people around who've been playing that card with newbies for years and are very adapt at it. and they chose those people specifically because they know that others who have been around, have more experience and are comfortable with themselves wouldn't take it. its certainly not every FA or even only FAs who take advantage but there are some who do. a freshly shorn FA can be taken advantage of too. not all BBWs are what they should be either. but when it comes to SA you can't say you are SA and deport yourself like a Svengali on one hand and have people take your claims of being SA seriously.


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## bigmac (Jun 28, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> You can't be serious.
> 
> See this is one of those things that if a man wrote, everyone would go batshit on him and point out all the things that SS women (and men) do every single day. SS people do all the same things everyone else does, except maybe not ballet or runway modeling. This board has even gone back and forth over the correctness of "sitings" posts where FA talk about this really fat person they saw someplace doing something. Even the controversial posts about how gross it is when fat women eat on trains or hot sexy it is when they get out of cars, they all happened because the fat people were *out from hiding.*
> *
> They're not hard to find because they're out everywhere doing everything*.



*Everything except socializing*. Sure I see fat people everyday -- on the street, at work, at the store, driving by ... . But I don't see them when I go out to socialize in settings where single people congregate (I'm married but we still go out and I still have eyes). Its considered quite appropriate for a guy to approach a girl at a nightclub or bar. However, its usually considered creepy to just walk up to someone at the mall and start a conversation. If you're a guy and your type is more than just a little chubby you're not going to have many chances to meet fat girls -- sure you'll see them but so what.


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## Heading_for_the_Light (Jun 29, 2010)

Being the cynic that I am: it's not that FAs are predisposed to be lecherous creeps or something, as much as it is that the majority of men in general tend to prioritize sex for whatever reason. Granted, there may be a certain lack of social knowledge that some FAs might have, due to being a bit of a fringe group in the first place, but I would think those as described by the negative attributes discussed in this thread are as they are just because that's how that percentage of men are across the board. 

Basically, tl;dr, it's not necessarily an issue with FAs as much as it's an issue with the male gender in general. There'll always be that certain percentage.


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## joswitch (Jun 29, 2010)

bigmac said:


> *Everything except socializing*. Sure I see fat people everyday -- on the street, at work, at the store, driving by ... . But I don't see them when I go out to socialize in settings where single people congregate (I'm married but we still go out and I still have eyes). Its considered quite appropriate for a guy to approach a girl at a nightclub or bar. However, its usually considered creepy to just walk up to someone at the mall and start a conversation. * If you're a guy and your type is more than just a little chubby you're not going to have many chances to meet fat girls *-- sure you'll see them but so what.



^This.
How many times have I passed a gorgeous BBW in the street?
Almost never see them out and about.

Oh, and when you *do* meet them out socializing?
They are mostly attached to / with:
1) husband
2) boyfriend
3) girlfriend

or, if your really, really lucky:
4) half a dozen or more of her (generally thin) female friends: 
All of whom are constantly demanding her attention for their drama! 
And/or relying on her as the: 
"make-sure-I-don't-lose-my-phone-purse-coat-head/get-me-home/taxi-share/DD" friend - 
because on the whole their BBW friend has better alcohol tolerance than they do AND cos her so-called friends ASSUME she will never pull.

Now, even if you've got mad game - THAT situation is a pain! I've bulldozed through it in the past. But it's tough, especially as BBWs, in my experience, are rarely looking around to make eye contact, instead they're looking at their phones, or the floor.


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## msbard90 (Jun 29, 2010)

I was stewing over this thread for a while, wondering why FA's have such a bad name. Like many posters have said, a lot of men- not only FAs- take sexuality a little too far. However, its a big issue here because of the way the ladies (or men) handle the way these people are talking to them. Yes it can be disrespectful, but sometimes it's not. A lot of women on here have self esteem issues, have been hurt in the past, or for some other reason put up this giant wall around them and assume any straight forward compliment or assertive, flirtatious act is offensive. Yes, internet etiquette is important to a great degree, but not all FA's can determine who likes the attention or not. There are too many regulations on how an FA can properly approach his/her object of desire. That's what I think.


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## Fat Brian (Jun 29, 2010)

Its very true that some BBws and some women in general have a wall up due to previous bad experiences. Its not their fault, as some truly bad things in their lives brought about that situation. From an FA perspective I believe you have to know going in that you will have to establish a trust before you can make certain kinds of comments. Its all about self control and manners, two things which are in woefully poor supply lately. When my wife still had her Myspace page I would read the comments sent her and every one was "Hey sexay momma, u wanna hook up ??" or "I luv biggulrz, u gotz big titteez, do u lik to chat?". Not ONCE in three years did she EVER get a respectful, non sleaze-laden, grammatically correct "hit on" message. I know most of the good posters were probably deterred by the fact she put that she was married, but god help these guys, its no wonder they are single. It is an FAs responsibility to better than this, know your audience, know that you will be perceived as a sleaze if you can't be respectful.


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## msbard90 (Jun 30, 2010)

Of course. It has to be the responsibility of both parties to let the other know what's too much. If some creeper is being weird PM'ing inappropriate things, it is important for a woman to know how to correctly respond to that, and know to not take it too personally. And guys should do some research and figure out a little bit who it is they are trying to communicate with. I can't even count how many AIM messages I get from creeps that are like, "hey sexy how are you", then I ask "who are you and where do you know me from" then they say some wrong answer like fantasy feeder (don't have an acct there) or "I'm the lurker type", then I ask, "what's my handle on dims then?" and they usually don't know- which is funny considering my aim handle and dims handle are the same thing, so it should be easy to at least guess. After catching out the creeper, I usually tell them that I am not interested and to have a great day. I am generally polite to creepers but I have had to get bitchy on occasion. Sorry guys.


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## superodalisque (Jun 30, 2010)

but in terms of SA events, organizations etc... rather than just an online situation i don't really feel most BBWs or BHMs feel they should have to tell an FA of any stripe to pipe down. i think its natural when people are making advances privately and they don't have experience that they could make a misstep. that might be especially true when someone hardly has any experiences outside of the porn website arena. but porn speak and porn thought should not be brought into SA at all since thats not what its about. SA is something public and not private. 

unfortunately i think a lot of people confuse admiration with SA. it just makes it look like, even though it may not be 100% true, SA is about their right and opportunity to have it be acceptable to bag their own personal fatty and not about a fat person's right to live happily and comfortably in the world. besides all of that it makes BBWs and BHMs look sexually desperate to the public when all they are trying to get across is that they have practical and legal needs in the world. focusing too much on what is often couched as the almost universal lack of desirablity of a fat person bothers me a lot when it comes to SA because it is a false argument and damaging assumption to underscore.

dims is really not SA so you can't judge the FAs who are SA by dims. but if they do come here and go about in the world doing things that aren't really SA at their core they should not be surprised if people take exception and remember when they put on their SA badges. a guy is not always SA just because he thinks fat women are sexy. SA encompasses more than someone's sex drive. its about the rights of a fat person to live in the world unmolested--even by their admirers sometimes. not all admiration is SA since not all FAs who admire leave the objects of their affection feeling unmolested.


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## Webmaster (Jun 30, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> ...dims is really not SA so you can't judge the FAs who are SA by dims. ....



You are certainly entitled to your opinion and I am not entirely sure what you're trying to say here, but it's perhaps a bit condescending to proclaim Dimensions does not support size acceptance. It most emphatically does.


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## The Orange Mage (Jun 30, 2010)

I think she meant not that "Dims isn't a supporter of size acceptance" but more that this place doesn't solely and fervently focus on size acceptance.


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## superodalisque (Jun 30, 2010)

The Orange Mage said:


> I think she meant not that "Dims isn't a supporter of size acceptance" but more that this place doesn't solely and fervently focus on size acceptance.



yes this is what i mean. no one would say that dims was NAAFA and it doesn't pretend to be. or at least that is what many members have always tried to get through my thick head anyway are they suddenly wrong now?


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## Webmaster (Jun 30, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> yes this is what i mean. no one would say that dims was NAAFA and it doesn't pretend to be. or at least that is what many members have always tried to get through my thick head anyway are they suddenly wrong now?



Dimensions was created within NAAFA as a Special Interest Group with a newsletter and then magazine for those who love fat women, as well as a size-positive community and forum for fat people and their admirers. I split Dimensions off from NAAFA in 1988 so as not to affect NAAFA's more politically oriented approach to size acceptance. Dimensions remains, and has always been, in full and total support of size acceptance.


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## superodalisque (Jun 30, 2010)

Webmaster said:


> Dimensions was created within NAAFA as a Special Interest Group with a newsletter and then magazine for those who love fat women, as well as a size-positive community and forum for fat people and their admirers. I split Dimensions off from NAAFA in 1988 so as not to affect NAAFA's more politically oriented approach to size acceptance. Dimensions remains, and has always been, in full and total support of size acceptance.



i'm very positive that a lot of people here support SA but it doesn't always mean its everyone's primary objective all of the time. on a continuim for some its 100% of their concern and for others its 0% of their concern. as much as SA may be close to the hearts of many it still doesn't make dims the exact same as NAAFA--no matter where it came from IMO. i'm not attacking dims when say its not NAAFA. it has its own concentration and purpose. thats simply the truth. i doubt if NAAFA would find the kind of sexual concentration appropriate here appropriate there and thats as it should be. if dims was NAAFA the two would not be separate and distinct entities. if you personally feel they are exactly the same thats up to you but i feel otherwise.


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## msbard90 (Jul 1, 2010)

Superodalisque has a very valid point. Although Dimensions may have started as a direct associate to NAAFA, it no longer is (as Conrad has said). The ideals of size acceptance and whatnot are for many users, especially FAs a mask for their fetish. The magazine, back in the days of its publication, was a mix of both the fetish and activist sectors in the fat community. But, can any one person honestly say that Dims is completely SA? No. Even the fetishists aren't SA. They make comments on the paysite board and picture threads, "how much bigger are you planning on getting", or "WOW you look so great now, compared to your before pics". That's not size acceptance. Not one bit. Making a woman not feel fat enough is not size acceptance, but it happens all the time on these boards. Any talk of SA is always derailed. There is no dedicated area to the actual topic of size acceptance and the activism and actual physical support behind it. I would love to be an activist for SA, as would other posters, and I feel that it would be of Dimensions Magazine's better interest to re-invite the political concept of size acceptance. Its not like this site is all fetishist anyways- there's hyde park (which in my opinion is one of the most ignorant and extremist sectors of this site). In order for Dimensions to be taken even a little bit more seriously, an actual effort to create a place for those who are commited to the SA movement to discuss actual SA issues should happen.


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## Haunted (Jul 1, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> Superodalisque has a very valid point. Although Dimensions may have started as a direct associate to NAAFA, it no longer is (as Conrad has said). The ideals of size acceptance and whatnot are for many users, especially FAs a mask for their fetish. The magazine, back in the days of its publication, was a mix of both the fetish and activist sectors in the fat community. But, can any one person honestly say that Dims is completely SA? No. Even the fetishists aren't SA. They make comments on the paysite board and picture threads, "how much bigger are you planning on getting", or "WOW you look so great now, compared to your before pics". That's not size acceptance. Not one bit. Making a woman not feel fat enough is not size acceptance, but it happens all the time on these boards. Any talk of SA is always derailed. There is no dedicated area to the actual topic of size acceptance and the activism and actual physical support behind it. I would love to be an activist for SA, as would other posters, and I feel that it would be of Dimensions Magazine's better interest to re-invite the political concept of size acceptance. Its not like this site is all fetishist anyways- there's hyde park (which in my opinion is one of the most ignorant and extremist sectors of this site). In order for Dimensions to be taken even a little bit more seriously, an actual effort to create a place for those who are commited to the SA movement to discuss actual SA issues should happen.



Bravo !!!!!! Exactly this. I'm still guilty of being a fetishist/FA but this explanation of FA vs SA and dimensions nailed it !!!!


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## Webmaster (Jul 2, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i'm very positive that a lot of people here support SA but it doesn't always mean its everyone's primary objective all of the time. on a continuim for some its 100% of their concern and for others its 0% of their concern. as much as SA may be close to the hearts of many it still doesn't make dims the exact same as NAAFA--no matter where it came from IMO. i'm not attacking dims when say its not NAAFA. it has its own concentration and purpose. thats simply the truth. i doubt if NAAFA would find the kind of sexual concentration appropriate here appropriate there and thats as it should be. if dims was NAAFA the two would not be separate and distinct entities. if you personally feel they are exactly the same thats up to you but i feel otherwise.



Of course, Dimensions is not the same as NAAFA, else, as explained, I would not have taken Dims out. NAAFA's original purpose was as follows:

a) Disseminate knowledge pertaining to the sociological, psychological, medical and physiological aspects of overweight as it becomes known.

b) Sponsor research by responsible professionals concerning the above aspects of overweight.

c) Assist the large number of people regarded by the medical profession as incurably overweight, as well as those others for whom permanent weight loss has remained elusive, to adapt to themselves, to live more effective lives within the framework of their own limitations, and to promote tolerance within society toward overweight people.

d) Serve as a forum whereby important problems affecting overweight people can be openly discussed in a climate unbiased by imposed esthetic standards, and solutions to these problems can be discovered and acted upon. 

e) Give power to solicit, receive and maintain a fund or funds of real or personal property and expend same for corporate purposes. 

Now there's always been a good degree of cognitive dissonance within NAAFA as to "live more effective lives" most likely includes the constitutionally supported inalienable right to pursuit of happiness, and that pursuit, for most, includes socializing and sexuality. NAAFA has also always been uneasy about relying on distinctly social events (gatherings and conventions) to pay for its operation and survival. 

It's just not that simple to separate the two.


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## superodalisque (Jul 2, 2010)

Webmaster said:


> Of course, Dimensions is not the same as NAAFA, else, as explained, I would not have taken Dims out. NAAFA's original purpose was as follows:
> 
> a) Disseminate knowledge pertaining to the sociological, psychological, medical and physiological aspects of overweight as it becomes known.
> 
> ...



its really good to finally see some concrete goals and areas of concentration pointed out. especially for people who have always asserted that dimensions really had no job in terms of SA other than sexuality and that people who brought SA into discussions about sexuality were being unrealistic somehow. 

i agree that sexuality never has to be totally separated from SA. IMO its only important to know how when and where to use it most effectively. thats the place where sometimes FAs blow up their own credibility. it has nothing to do with BBWs not enjoying the fact that FAs admire fat women. its only a matter of knowing when to say when in order not to discredit oneself as an FA. 

actually that has nothing much to do with dims or any other collection of people. its all about individual choices and actions. belonging to a group or a sexual designation built around fat people doesn't gives anyone an automatic pass card when it comes to actually being SA. its up to the individual FA to show his serious concern. if he does not do that anyone has the right of disbelief.


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## msbard90 (Jul 2, 2010)

Dear Conrad,
Please read my previous post. It had a decent proposition regarding the integration of SA to the dims community. I felt as if the suggestion was brushed off. Your feedback would be appreciated. Thank you.
Sincerely, me


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## xysoseriousx (Jul 2, 2010)

Being an FA isn't a sexual issue. It is just you prefer bigger girls. Like I prefer bigger girls way more, I see that bigger girls seem to have more personality to me, and are alot nicer. Skinny girls are always complaining about something, and why worry about what you eat, when you could still get guys and eat whatever you want?


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## AnnMarie (Jul 2, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> Dear Conrad,
> Please read my previous post. It had a decent proposition regarding the integration of SA to the dims community. I felt as if the suggestion was brushed off. Your feedback would be appreciated. Thank you.
> Sincerely, me




I am certainly not answering for him, but to your earlier point - that is what the main board is there for, so feel free to go to town. 

As its subhead/descriptor says: 
Size/size acceptance issues


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## FA Punk (Jul 2, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> Superodalisque has a very valid point. Although Dimensions may have started as a direct associate to NAAFA, it no longer is (as Conrad has said). The ideals of size acceptance and whatnot are for many users, especially FAs a mask for their fetish. The magazine, back in the days of its publication, was a mix of both the fetish and activist sectors in the fat community. But, can any one person honestly say that Dims is completely SA? No. Even the fetishists aren't SA. They make comments on the paysite board and picture threads, "how much bigger are you planning on getting", or "WOW you look so great now, compared to your before pics". That's not size acceptance. Not one bit. Making a woman not feel fat enough is not size acceptance, but it happens all the time on these boards. Any talk of SA is always derailed. There is no dedicated area to the actual topic of size acceptance and the activism and actual physical support behind it. I would love to be an activist for SA, as would other posters, and I feel that it would be of Dimensions Magazine's better interest to re-invite the political concept of size acceptance. Its not like this site is all fetishist anyways- there's hyde park (which in my opinion is one of the most ignorant and extremist sectors of this site). In order for Dimensions to be taken even a little bit more seriously, an actual effort to create a place for those who are commited to the SA movement to discuss actual SA issues should happen.



Can you please stop useing the word ''fetish''? You see for some of us it's a preference not a ''fetish'', I don't see anything abnormal about being attracted to a larger female. It's ok if I like big tits, long legs, and big butts but if I like everything big holy fucking shit balls batman I'm a freak!

I'm not attacking you miss but your generalization of ''fat admirers'' is very flawed. And your right the hyde park is a joke that should have never been made in the first place. Ummm..and like Ann Marie said the main board is where you see most people talk about SA, so whats your problem with it?

Also in the way you talked about the ''gaining aspect'' of this site does that mean the weight loss board is also not SA?


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## msbard90 (Jul 2, 2010)

AnnMarie said:


> I am certainly not answering for him, but to your earlier point - that is what the main board is there for, so feel free to go to town.
> 
> As its subhead/descriptor says:
> Size/size acceptance issues





FA Punk said:


> Can you please stop useing the word ''fetish''? You see for some of us it's a preference not a ''fetish'', I don't see anything abnormal about being attracted to a larger female. It's ok if I like big tits, long legs, and big butts but if I like everything big holy fucking shit balls batman I'm a freak!
> 
> I'm not attacking you miss but your generalization of ''fat admirers'' is very flawed. And your right the hyde park is a joke that should have never been made in the first place. Ummm..and like Ann Marie said the main board is where you see most people talk about SA, so whats your problem with it?
> 
> Also in the way you talked about the ''gaining aspect'' of this site does that mean the weight loss board is also not SA?



The main board is nothing more than a bunch of people copying and pasting news stories and discussing them. And also, FA punk, here is a little something for you:

Fetish 'fe-tish _noun_: an object or bodily part whose real or fantasied presence is psychologically necessary for sexual gratification and that is an object of fixation to the extent that it may interfere with complete sexual expression. (Meriam-Webster dictionary)

That definition may quite possibly fit the bill for quite a few folk around here, and if that's not you, then give yourself a pat on the back. Hell I'm a fetishist. Nothing wrong with it. And I'll use the word till the day I die- fetish fetish fetish!!!!!!!


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## FA Punk (Jul 3, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> The main board is nothing more than a bunch of people copying and pasting news stories and discussing them. And also, FA punk, here is a little something for you:
> 
> Fetish 'fe-tish _noun_: an object or bodily part whose real or fantasied presence is psychologically necessary for sexual gratification and that is an object of fixation to the extent that it may interfere with complete sexual expression. (Meriam-Webster dictionary)
> 
> That definition may quite possibly fit the bill for quite a few folk around here, and if that's not you, then give yourself a pat on the back. Hell I'm a fetishist. Nothing wrong with it. And I'll use the word till the day I die- fetish fetish fetish!!!!!!!



Wow, your arrogance is astounding to say the least! You've missed the point of my message completely and if you don't like the way Dims is run then I say leave and find or make a web-forum that suits you better.


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## Blackjack (Jul 3, 2010)

FA Punk said:


> Wow, your arrogance is astounding to say the least!



Instead of talking to yourself, how about addressing other posters here?

p.s. it IS a fetish by dictionary definition. Just because you have an issue with that word or attach a stigma to it doesn't mean that it doesn't apply.


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## superodalisque (Jul 3, 2010)

FA Punk said:


> Wow, your arrogance is astounding to say the least! You've missed the point of my message completely and if you don't like the way Dims is run then I say leave and find or make a web-forum that suits you better.



wow. it is also arrogant to suggest someone leave whose opinions vary from your own. a think my way or take the highway tact is one of the things that cause women like bard to have the types of opinions that she does. what she has to say has value to many even if some might disagree. should she lie about how she really thinks and feels? should she fake it up like she's being paid? if there was a miscommunication just clear it up. it will happen at times. but asking someone to leave is not really constructive and doesn't make them feel valued or respected especially if she is often the object of discussion both political and sexual. she is trying to work out how she thinks and feels about issues as well and needs to be able to participate fully in free flowing ideas with other people. she can't do that if her voice is silenced. 

i'm not saying that you are a bad guy or something but this is an example of why sometimes FAs are not trusted re: SA. sometimes when something challenges their beliefs system they are ready to dismiss it and discount it. its better to disagree yet respect one another's opinions than to show someone the door because you don't like what they think. people had been shown the door here many times previously and now people are wondering why so many stepped through it. maybe if you get the invitation often enough you take people up on it. the proprietory idea that some guys might have about dims, that it belongs to them and is totally about them and their needs, is pushing many women away. be careful not to fall into that trap. how can dims only be about guys want if they want the women to come here as well? if you expect women to agree with you all of the time just turn this into a paysite like any other and the women will say anything the clients like and FAs will never get in touch with real fat women intellectually emotionally idealistically or maybe even otherwise.


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## msbard90 (Jul 3, 2010)

FA Punk said:


> Wow, your arrogance is astounding to say the least! You've missed the point of my message completely and if you don't like the way Dims is run then I say leave and find or make a web-forum that suits you better.



Please do not confuse arrogance with confidence. 

....moving on....


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## musicman (Jul 3, 2010)

Webmaster said:


> Now there's always been a good degree of cognitive dissonance within NAAFA as to "live more effective lives" most likely includes the constitutionally supported inalienable right to pursuit of happiness, and that pursuit, for most, includes socializing and sexuality. NAAFA has also always been uneasy about relying on distinctly social events (gatherings and conventions) to pay for its operation and survival.
> 
> It's just not that simple to separate the two.




Very true.

I'm not sure how people here are defining a size-acceptance organization without FAs, but I think it's a straw man. There are NO successful SA organizations without a significant social component, e.g. dances, pool parties, etc. And I believe that the social component, BY ITSELF, is an important part of SA. It helps fat people accept THEMSELVES as desirable human beings, which is a prerequisite to any sort of political action. If people don't have the inner strength that comes from self-acceptance, they cannot fight for anything else. In the area of self-acceptance, I think Dimensions has done as much or more for SA than even NAAFA, since Dimensions has probably reached more people. (And I say that as a supporter of NAAFA.)

Conrad mentioned the tension within NAAFA over the proper role of social events and political events. I've only attended NAAFA events for about 14 years, but that tension is evident to me as well. I feel that when NAAFA has been successful as an organization, it has been due to a skillful blending of the social and the political. Without the social events, there is no money. And without money, there is no organization to do political action. The political people may hold their noses at the social events, but those events are vital to keep the organization alive. If they attract some bad apples, well, that's life. If SA is doing its job, then it is giving people the strength, on an individual basis, to say "get lost" to any bad people that might approach them.

In any organization involving human beings, you have to accept people for what they are. You have to figure out how to build on human nature, both the good and bad parts of it. You want to encourage the good and discourage the bad, of course, but you can't deny sexuality or any other aspect of human nature. And you can't reject a whole class of people based on your superficial judgment of their supposedly deepest motivations. If you do, your organization won't last very long. (You can only judge people and their contributions on an individual basis, which is what SA is all about, I think.)


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 3, 2010)

I think some FAs support fat people in general. Not all.....some. 

Is it being asserted that if person A finds person B sexually attractive, then person A must have their best interest at heart in all things?

That notion is outright ludicrous to me as a person that has lived out in the real world. Sexual attraction only sparks interest in another person....not genuine concern/caring for that person. 

I see men all the time that I deem physically attractive.....and that's as far as it goes. 
Men have found me attractive.....if they pursue, then it's for sexual gratification, not concern for me. 

If a person is kind and naturally cares about others, then their sexual desire doesn't play into it. 

Do all people that do volunteer work in nursing homes, homeless shelters or hospitals do it because they want sexy time with someone in those facilities? I'm guessing they do it because they deem it a job worthy of their time and want to help others in need.

Some FAs might be interested in SA....but they do it because that's how they come.....as nice people. They don't do it because they like the way someone's ass jiggles. 

The only way I can see sexual attraction and SA linked is that an FA might consider it in his own best interest to protect a woman or family member he loves. Perhaps an FA might feel it would enable him to "come out of the closet" if fat people weren't looked down upon. Maybe it's a guy/woman that simply doesn't like others telling him what to do/like. The reasoning to do it isn't about sex....it's about the individual and what their core beliefs are. 

If it's all about his/her sexuality and not about another person, then why bother?


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## AnnMarie (Jul 3, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> The main board is nothing more than a bunch of people copying and pasting news stories and discussing them.




You asked for a place for size acceptance to be discussed


> ...There is no dedicated area to the actual topic of size acceptance...



- that is the place, it's there. If you want to discuss activism and other more cogent matters of size acceptance, the area is there and ready and waiting for those topics. That was my only point, you asked for a space, and there is one provided. 

Also, here's an activism thread for direct opportunities (a sticky on the main board): http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69353


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## xysoseriousx (Jul 3, 2010)

FA Punk said:


> Wow, your arrogance is astounding to say the least! You've missed the point of my message completely and if you don't like the way Dims is run then I say leave and find or make a web-forum that suits you better.



Wow, can you stop treating these ladies like crap, the way you are treating them is absolutely despicable. Techincally, our preference towards bigger woman is a fetish, so they are right. Just like people who like feet big boobs, or earrings and tattoos.


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## AnnMarie (Jul 3, 2010)

xysoseriousx said:


> Wow, can you stop treating these ladies like crap, the way you are treating them is absolutely despicable. Techincally, our preference towards bigger woman is a fetish, so they are right. Just like people who like feet big boobs, or earrings and tattoos.



I disagree. Liking a large woman is a preference, it is not a fetish. If you like a tall woman, that's not a fetish... it's a body preference. Same with a large partner. 

If liking a fat woman is a fetish than so is any het male who prefers a thin partner. Fat is not something that pushes the WOMAN into a different category. 

If you're a woman who believes you're just a fetish to an FA, then I really hope you don't end up with one. If you're an FA who believes that partnering and being with large women is just a fetish, then I sincerely hope you don't end up with one. 

If the FA can only get off while the woman is stuffing twinkies in her mouth or busting out of too-tight jeans, then THAT is the fetish part... not the wanting of a large partner for relationships.


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## Jon Blaze (Jul 4, 2010)

xysoseriousx said:


> Wow, can you stop treating these ladies like crap, the way you are treating them is absolutely despicable. Techincally, our preference towards bigger woman is a fetish, so they are right. Just like people who like feet big boobs, or earrings and tattoos.



And thin women only. lol


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## msbard90 (Jul 4, 2010)

Thank you for the links, AnnMarie. 

I apologize greatly for anyone who can't handle the fact that having a specific sexual preference can be referred to as a fetish. If you don't feel that's you, then ignore the post for goodness sake. And if you think that no one on here is a fetishist, then you're really puttin' up the blinders...


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## AnnMarie (Jul 4, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> Thank you for the links, AnnMarie.
> 
> I apologize greatly for anyone who can't handle the fact that having a specific sexual preference can be referred to as a fetish. If you don't feel that's you, then ignore the post for goodness sake. *And if you think that no one on here is a fetishist, then you're really puttin' up the blinders...*


 (bold emphasis mine)

I'm not even close to thinking that - as I mentioned above.


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## msbard90 (Jul 4, 2010)

AnnMarie said:


> (bold emphasis mine)
> 
> I'm not even close to thinking that - as I mentioned above.



My post was not entirely directed toward you. I am not trying to attack you, please do not take the things I am saying personally.


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## The Orange Mage (Jul 4, 2010)

Fetishists? On Dims?

Should I be locking my doors and buying a dog?


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## chicken legs (Jul 4, 2010)

Everything humans do has a underlying current that is related to the basic physiological needs of breathing, food, and sex. The thing is both FA's and those we admire are fighting for the right to have sex and eat ..basically live....without all the bullshit. To point fingers at the motives on why someone is associated with SA (or any cause) is naive because everyone has their own agenda's.


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## superodalisque (Jul 4, 2010)

chicken legs said:


> Everything humans do has a underlying current that is related to the basic physiological needs of breathing, food, and sex. The thing is both FA's and those we admire are fighting for the right to have sex and eat ..basically live....without all the bullshit. To point fingers at the motives on why someone is associated with SA (or any cause) is naive because everyone has their own agenda's.



why is it pointing fingers to say that FAs are individual people and as individual people have individual ways of being? thats not finger pointing thats just real. some FAs are SA, some are not just like any other person. saying all FAs view the world in the same way does them a disservice as individual people. its unfair to lump those in who don't care in with the ones that do. why should they have the very same perks as the guys who are highly socially conscious and empathetic and do the real work of SA? just because they want it? each FA has to be taken based on his own character and his own actions just as a BBW does. 

i take exception that i am fighting for the right to have sex or to eat. i personally am not. i feel totally free in that respect. there is more to my life than just eating and fucking anyway. thats where i may differ from some FAs ways of thinking. where i do not feel free is in the expectations that i accept less from life just because i'm a BBW. that less includes the idea that somehow i'm a burden on those who say they care about me because i am somehow inferior because of my fat. thats what i'd personally like freedom from--all of the angst. for me thats should be one of the large roots of SA. i accept the fact that there is nothing wrong with me and i'd like to fraternize with people who feel the same. for me thats SA. i don't want my progress drained by people who have more shame than i do about myself and are more frightened of life re: fat than i am. i doubt if any fat person needs that kind of "acceptance".

there is absolutely nothing wrong with admiring fat people at all. what is wrong is fixating on the negative stereotypes about fat people believing and even perpetuating them even as you feel a type of empathy. thats just as damaging as anything people who are absolutely disgusted with fat can do. sometimes its even more damaging to accept the negative assumptions about fat people if you are an admirer because your agreement with those stereotypes and your failure to try to really listen is more painful because you say you love us.


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## superodalisque (Jul 4, 2010)

for the record being an FA is a sexual issue simply because the term is only a sexual designation that says nothing else about a person except that there is an attraction to fat. any other characteristics attributed to the term without evidence are dubious.


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## TraciJo67 (Jul 4, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> there is absolutely nothing wrong with admiring fat people at all. what is wrong is fixating on the negative stereotypes about fat people believing and even perpetuating them even as you feel a type of empathy. thats just as damaging as anything people who are absolutely disgusted with fat can do. sometimes its even more damaging to accept the negative assumptions about fat people if you are an admirer because your agreement with those stereotypes and your failure to try to really listen is more painful because you say you love us.


 
Yes. A million times, yes. 

I get so frustrated when I read well-meaning but ignorant posts from FAs who seem to believe that only an FA could desire a fat woman. It saddens me to see that some women buy into this, too. It's not true. In my personal experience, I've seen that a lot of men are bi-sizual and wouldn't identify themselves as fat admirers -- they just like women, and they don't have any preconceived ideas of what a woman should look like. Both of my sisters are very large, small when they were married. The same is true of my own marriage, only in reverse. Their husbands adore them just as they are, and it is abundantly clear that they don't just grudgingly accept the extra weight. My husband finds beauty in women of all sizes, ages, races. I've gotten vaguely creeped out by watching him admire a "Buffy" look-alike, and vaguely jealous by watching him admire my pretty 42-year-old BBW friend. So, to me, sex and sexual attraction exist well independent of Fat Admiration. My experience with interacting/observing male FA's is contained to Dimensions, and I have to say, I'm not generally impressed. It seems to me that a lot of the admiration goes hand in hand with fetishism. No, but thanks. 

A woman who takes care with her appearance, projects confidence and a sense of knowing her own worth, WILL attract men. Independent of size or conventional beauty standards. I don't mean to negate experiences from women who do not feel this way. I'm just suggesting that in many cases, a self-fulfilling prophecy may be at work. 

I would never date a man who felt that I couldn't do better. Yeah. I could. Alone would be better.


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## chicken legs (Jul 4, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> why is it pointing fingers to say that FAs are individual people and as individual people have individual ways of being? thats not finger pointing thats just real. some FAs are SA, some are not just like any other person. saying all FAs view the world in the same way does them a disservice as individual people. its unfair to lump those in who don't care in with the ones that do. why should they have the very same perks as the guys who are highly socially conscious and empathetic and do the real work of SA? just because they want it? each FA has to be taken based on his own character and his own actions just as a BBW does.
> 
> i take exception that i am fighting for the right to have sex or to eat. i personally am not. i feel totally free in that respect. there is more to my life than just eating and fucking anyway. thats where i may differ from some FAs ways of thinking. where i do not feel free is in the expectations that i accept less from life just because i'm a BBW. that less includes the idea that somehow i'm a burden on those who say they care about me because i am somehow inferior because of my fat. thats what i'd personally like freedom from--all of the angst. for me thats should be one of the large roots of SA. i accept the fact that there is nothing wrong with me and i'd like to fraternize with people who feel the same. for me thats SA. i don't want my progress drained by people who have more shame than i do about myself and are more frightened of life re: fat than i am. i doubt if any fat person needs that kind of "acceptance".
> 
> there is absolutely nothing wrong with admiring fat people at all. what is wrong is fixating on the negative stereotypes about fat people believing and even perpetuating them even as you feel a type of empathy. thats just as damaging as anything people who are absolutely disgusted with fat can do. sometimes its even more damaging to accept the negative assumptions about fat people if you are an admirer because your agreement with those stereotypes and your failure to try to really listen is more painful because you say you love us.



I really haven't been following the thread but finger pointing never helps to solidify a group. Many Fa/FFA and BBW/BHM have found SA because they were originally looking for dates/wank fodder/diets..etc. I rarely hear people finding out about SA because they were actually looking for SA sites and such. Personally I never heard about SA until I actually started digging around the boards in 2008. However, I've known of and had BBW/BHM's and FA's in my family and as friends my whole life. It wasn't until I came to this site that I realized there was a subculture and movement geared towards fat issues. Personally, I'm happy to have found out about SA regardless of how I found out about it. Thats why I feel its pointless to worry about how others have found out about it.


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## superodalisque (Jul 4, 2010)

chicken legs said:


> I really haven't been following the thread but finger pointing never helps to solidify a group. Many Fa/FFA and BBW/BHM have found SA because they were originally looking for dates/wank fodder/diets..etc. I rarely hear people finding out about SA because they were actually looking for SA sites and such. Personally I never heard about SA until I actually started digging around the boards in 2008. However, I've known of and had BBW/BHM's and FA's in my family and as friends my whole life. It wasn't until I came to this site that I realized there was a subculture and movement geared towards fat issues. Personally, I'm happy to have found out about SA regardless of how I found out about it. Thats why I feel its pointless to worry about how others have found out about it.



lying about how you feel and squelching your true feelings doesn't help solidify a group either. it just makes some people feel like victims. eventually people get tired of what they feel is BS and leave. whats the point of any of this anyway if its all centered totally on things people feel are a bunch of lies and half truths previously agreed to to shelter others from their harsh truth? i think fat people shouldn't have to spend most of their time sheltering people who are afraid to do the uncomfortable emotional work it takes to be at peace with themselves.IMO i feel there has been way too much coddling and it beginning to feel like it holds fat people back.

it just disenchants people even more if you try to make Gods out of human beings. they are doomed the be the God that failed. so maybe its better to try to be real and human and not putting each other up on such unquestionable pedistals that fill everyone with resentment when there is an inevitable human failure and stress when they notice them crumbling from beneath their feet. people need to discuss and be open about their short comings so they don't loom so large and negatively on the horizon while they desperately try to convince themselves that they are something they might not be.


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## chicken legs (Jul 4, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> lying about how you feel and squelching your true feelings doesn't help solidify a group either. it just makes some people feel like victims. eventually people get tired of what they feel is BS and leave. whats the point of any of this anyway if its all centered totally on things people feel are a bunch of lies and half truths previously agreed to to shelter others from their harsh truth? i think fat people shouldn't have to spend most of their time sheltering people who are afraid to do the uncomfortable emotional work it takes to be at peace with themselves.IMO i feel there has been way too much coddling and it beginning to feel like it holds fat people back.
> 
> it just disenchants people even more if you try to make Gods out of human beings. they are doomed the be the God that failed. so maybe its better to try to be real and human and not putting each other up on such unquestionable pedistals that fill everyone with resentment when there is an inevitable human failure and stress when they notice them crumbling from beneath their feet. people need to discuss and be open about their short comings so they don't loom so large and negatively on the horizon while they desperately try to convince themselves that they are something they might not be.



I really don't get what your saying. It feels like you are over thinking the situation or bring up points that I have yet to be in contact with. When it comes to movements, you're going to have a core and you're going to have a lot of passerby's who drop in and drop out. Some are going to be of the FFA/FA variety and others are going to be of the BBW/BHM variety. Either way, it shouldn't stop you from participating in something you feel is of importance.


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## superodalisque (Jul 4, 2010)

chicken legs said:


> I really don't get what your saying. It feels like you are over thinking the situation or bring up points that I have yet to be in contact with. When it comes to movements, you're going to have a core and you're going to have a lot of passerby's who drop in and drop out. Some are going to be of the FFA/FA variety and others are going to be of the BBW/BHM variety. Either way, it shouldn't stop you from participating in something you feel is of importance.



let me see if i can clear this up. earlier a number of people opposed the idea that just because a guy is an FA that it means that he must be SA. its not necessarily so. pretending that is true of every FA and having to agree with that premise can kind of get under a fat person's skin. it depends on the individual FA. and fat people cant just accept a sexual interest as proof positive that someone supports SA. some might and some might not. the idea that fat people were led to believe by some, in previous months, that they somehow have to accept unquestioningly an FA devotion to SA and an FA mindset is one of the reasons that some people have left dims recently or don't come here as often.
i was referring to people leavinng dims and not their dedication to SA.


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## swordchick (Jul 4, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> lying about how you feel and squelching your true feelings doesn't help solidify a group either. it just makes some people feel like victims. eventually people get tired of what they feel is BS and leave. whats the point of any of this anyway if its all centered totally on things people feel are a bunch of lies and half truths previously agreed to to shelter others from their harsh truth? i think fat people shouldn't have to spend most of their time sheltering people who are afraid to do the uncomfortable emotional work it takes to be at peace with themselves.IMO i feel there has been way too much coddling and it beginning to feel like it holds fat people back.
> 
> it just disenchants people even more if you try to make Gods out of human beings. they are doomed the be the God that failed. so maybe its better to try to be real and human and not putting each other up on such unquestionable pedistals that fill everyone with resentment when there is an inevitable human failure and stress when they notice them crumbling from beneath their feet. people need to discuss and be open about their short comings so they don't loom so large and negatively on the horizon while they desperately try to convince themselves that they are something they might not be.



You got it. I completely get what you are saying. I will not pretend that I am into something I am not because it will make me angry.


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## chicken legs (Jul 4, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> let me see if i can clear this up. earlier a number of people opposed the idea that just because a guy is an FA that it means that he must be SA. its not necessarily so. pretending that is true of every FA and having to agree with that premise can kind of get under a fat person's skin. it depends on the individual FA. and fat people cant just accept a sexual interest as proof positive that someone supports SA. some might and some might not. the idea that fat people were led to believe by some, in previous months, that they somehow have to accept unquestioningly an FA devotion to SA and an FA mindset is one of the reasons that some people have left dims recently or don't come here as often.
> i was referring to people leavinng dims and not their dedication to SA.



Ohhhh.. thanks for filling me in. I didn't know the the story behind the story...lol. I agree, thats a really naive way of thinking. Sexual interest may just be sexual interest. The thing is even the BHM's rarely get involved. To me, I think most of the FA's get involved because of their SO.


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## superodalisque (Jul 5, 2010)

chicken legs said:


> Ohhhh.. thanks for filling me in. I didn't know the the story behind the story...lol. I agree, thats a really naive way of thinking. Sexual interest may just be sexual interest. The thing is even the BHM's rarely get involved. To me, I think most of the FA's get involved because of their SO.



the neat thing about some FAs who get involved because of their SO is that they really catch fire and become exceptional advocates. even if if their SO drops out they are still there and just as impassioned because not only do they care about their sexual appetites they also care about human rights. but it would be a big mistake to think that happens for every last FA or that some, just as Bard said, don't just use SA as a mask to what they are really up to. for the guys who are really serious i think its important not to lump them in with posers because their hard work will end up being discrediting. when we pretend they are all the same it ends up fouling the work of those who are really serious about what they are doing.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 5, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> lying about how you feel and squelching your true feelings doesn't help solidify a group either. it just makes some people feel like victims. eventually people get tired of what they feel is BS and leave. whats the point of any of this anyway if its all centered totally on things people feel are a bunch of lies and half truths previously agreed to to shelter others from their harsh truth? i think fat people shouldn't have to spend most of their time sheltering people who are afraid to do the uncomfortable emotional work it takes to be at peace with themselves.IMO i feel there has been way too much coddling and it beginning to feel like it holds fat people back.
> 
> *it just disenchants people even more if you try to make Gods out of human beings. *they are doomed the be the God that failed. so maybe its better to try to be real and human and not putting each other up on such unquestionable pedistals that fill everyone with resentment when there is an inevitable human failure and stress when they notice them crumbling from beneath their feet. people need to discuss and be open about their short comings so they don't loom so large and negatively on the horizon while they desperately try to convince themselves that they are something they might not be.



Indeed, so entirely true. So many seem to be expecting Prince Charming or Superman. 
Everyone is human....and on the same level.


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## msbard90 (Jul 5, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> * there is more to my life than just eating and fucking anyway. thats where i may differ from some FAs ways of thinking.* where i do not feel free is in the expectations that i accept less from life just because i'm a BBW. that less includes the idea that somehow i'm a burden on those who say they care about me because i am somehow inferior because of my fat. thats what i'd personally like freedom from--all of the angst. for me thats should be one of the large roots of SA. i accept the fact that there is nothing wrong with me and i'd like to fraternize with people who feel the same. for me thats SA. i don't want my progress drained by people who have more shame than i do about myself and are more frightened of life re: fat than i am. i doubt if any fat person needs that kind of "acceptance".
> 
> there is absolutely nothing wrong with admiring fat people at all. * what is wrong is fixating on the negative stereotypes about fat people believing and even perpetuating them even as you feel a type of empathy. thats just as damaging as anything people who are absolutely disgusted with fat can do*. sometimes its even more damaging to accept the negative assumptions about fat people if you are an admirer because your agreement with those stereotypes and your failure to try to really listen is more painful because you say you love us.



This is why I get so excited every time you post.


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## joswitch (Jul 5, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> lying about how you feel and squelching your true feelings doesn't help solidify a group either. it just makes some people feel like victims. eventually people get tired of what they feel is BS and leave. whats the point of any of this anyway if its all centered totally on things people feel are a bunch of lies and half truths previously agreed to to shelter others from their harsh truth? i think fat people shouldn't have to spend most of their time sheltering people who are afraid to do the uncomfortable emotional work it takes to be at peace with themselves.IMO i feel there has been *way too much coddling and it beginning to feel like it holds fat people back.*
> 
> it just disenchants people even more *if you try to make Gods out of human beings. they are doomed the be the God that failed. * so maybe its better to try to be real and human and not putting each other up on such unquestionable pedistals that fill everyone with resentment when there is an inevitable human failure and stress when they notice them crumbling from beneath their feet. people need to discuss and be open about their* short comings *so they don't loom so large and negatively on the horizon while they desperately try to convince themselves that they are something they might not be.



What???
I thought it had been pretty well established on DIMS that all us FAs are heartless monsters, not "gods".
Oh wait, there we go - you did mention being an FA is a "shortcoming". Nice. Thanks.

As for "holding fat people back"?
Ugh.

But y'know what?
*Your message is loud and clear:*
FAs cannot have anything other than a supporting role in Fat Acceptance.
We will always be "suspect".
We will not be credited with having compassion nor empathy.
We will always be assumed to think porn is real etc. etc. etc.
And so as far as Fat Acceptance is concerned, we should STFU when the fat people are talking and concern ourselves with, y'know, helping put the tables and chairs out for meetings.
*Got it.*

Now, is there any chance we could stop FA bashing for a while?
It's getting really old. And on the "protected" FA forum, no less.


(and yeah, Fat Acceptance, not "SA"... SA would include other body size issues too, those are almost always ignored / marginalised, so let's call it what it is, FFS.)


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## joswitch (Jul 5, 2010)

xysoseriousx said:


> *snip* Techincally, *our preference towards bigger woman is a fetish,* so they are right. Just like people who like feet big boobs, or earrings and tattoos.



No - FA is my orientation.
Not a fetish.
I have no problem with fetishes.
I have fetishes.
Digging cute fat chicks isn't one.
Cute fat chicks are whole entire people.
Not a thing.
Not a "paraphilia".


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## joswitch (Jul 5, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> the neat thing about some FAs who get involved because of their SO



Some FAs introduce their SO to Fat Acceptance in the first place.
Cos, y'know, maybe they hate to see their SO hurt by society's fatphobia.




> is that they really catch fire and become exceptional advocates. even if if their SO drops out they are still there and just as impassioned *because not only do they care about their sexual appetites they also care about human rights.* but it would be a big mistake to think that happens for every last FA or that some, just as Bard said, don't just use SA as a mask to what they are really up to. for the guys who are really serious i think its important not to lump them in with posers because their hard work will end up being discrediting. when we pretend they are all the same it ends up fouling the work of those who are really serious about what they are doing.



^Oh, that's nice. Apparently not all of us are monsters. Lovely.


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## joswitch (Jul 5, 2010)

> Originally Posted by chicken legs View Post
> Everything humans do has a underlying current that is related to the basic physiological needs of breathing, food, and sex. The thing is both FA's and those we admire are fighting for the right to have sex and eat .*.basically live....without all the bullshit.* To point fingers at the motives on why someone is associated with SA (or any cause) is naive because everyone has their own agenda's.






superodalisque said:


> *snip*
> 
> i take exception that i am fighting for the right to have sex or to eat. i personally am not. i feel totally free in that respect. *there is more to my life than just eating and fucking anyway. thats where i may differ from some FAs ways of thinking. *



I liked the way you ignored "basically live....without all the bullshit." and fixated on "eating and fucking". So you could tar FAs as feederporn obsessed. Again.


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## joswitch (Jul 5, 2010)

Time for me to unsubscribe this thread I think.


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## superodalisque (Jul 5, 2010)

joswitch said:


> Time for me to unsubscribe this thread I think.



maybe --since you seem to be getting paranoid and reading things in that were never said or meant the way you've interpreted them. maybe fat folks have no right to analyze or think about anything centered on us and our lives? i guess i don't understand whats so threatening to an FA being taken on his own individual merits. as a BBW i expect to be taken on mine as an individual. i'd never expect every FA to think i'm always going to do the right thing just because i'm fat.


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## Blackjack (Jul 5, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> maybe --since you seem to be getting paranoid and reading things in that were never said or meant the way you've interpreted them. *maybe fat folks have no right to analyze or think about anything centered on us and our lives?*



If he's reading shit that isn't there he sure as fuck isn't the only one.


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## msbard90 (Jul 5, 2010)

Dearest Joswitch,

After many women and men on here get harassed by FAs or get sent statements like, "You're just a fat bitch anyway" after being denied, generalizations are made. I think SuperO, other posters, and I are tired of FAs hiding under the guise of being SA. Its not everyone on here, and from what I have read of your posts, not you. Its guys like thinguyforbbw who come on here and troll around saying theyre an FA and size acceptance is all fine and dandy then post gem threads like that- which put everyone's panties in a twist. (BTW the thread I'm speaking of is the recently locked thread, "Are women who eat on public transport irresponsible?" ....and no I'm not making this a thread about that, so please don't. Per moderator's request...) Basically, I think the whole point is, if FA is a strictly sexual thing for someone, it doesn't do the BBW BHM world any favors to pretend to be all about SA when in reality, all its about is the sexual aspect.


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## lostjacket (Jul 5, 2010)

*Has read none of this thread...however? I would like to add this:*

"It's an issue only in the sense that it is awesome."


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## superodalisque (Jul 5, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> If he's reading shit that isn't there he sure as fuck isn't the only one.



thats fine. but all of this opposition to FAs being taken on individual merit makes me wonder what the big problem is with that. is it the fear of close scrutiny thats driving it? maybe some FAs think people might have a worse opinion of them than they do. maybe they feel guilty because just like any human being they have their moments of not being SA? the insistance that a fat person who actually stops to think about individual motives at all and what that means for them is somehow being negative and disloyal seems really over the top. why should an FA need unquestioning agreement anyway? that seems rather high handed.


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## joswitch (Jul 6, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> thats fine. but all of this opposition to FAs being taken on individual merit makes me wonder what the big problem is with that.


I have no problem with "individual merit". Your rhetoric goes way beyond that. 


> is it the fear of close scrutiny thats driving it? maybe some FAs think people might have a worse opinion of them than they do. maybe they feel guilty because just like any human being they have their moments of not being SA? the insistance that a fat person who actually stops to think about individual motives at all and what that means for them is somehow being negative and disloyal seems really over the top. why should an FA need unquestioning agreement anyway? that seems rather high handed.



No-one asked for your unquestioning agreement.Just cos you pose these things as straw men / rhetorical questions doesn't make your endless accusations less insulting.

Try to bear in mind:
The bad guys NEVER read these threads. 
This is the protected FA board.
Those FA people who practice/promote fat acceptance, dislike being punished (e.g. being constantly bashed on here) for doing a good deed as much as the next person.

now I must unsubscribe. Ugh.


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## superodalisque (Jul 7, 2010)

you're right. it is a protected board. i don't pay enough attention to the divisions sometimes. but its just that the idea that someone showing up at events somehow makes him automatically SA is so outside of logic.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 7, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> thats fine. but all of this opposition to FAs being taken on individual merit makes me wonder what the big problem is with that. is it the fear of close scrutiny thats driving it? maybe some FAs think people might have a worse opinion of them than they do. maybe they feel guilty because just like any human being they have their moments of not being SA? the insistance that a fat person who actually stops to think about individual motives at all and what that means for them is somehow being negative and disloyal seems really over the top. why should an FA need unquestioning agreement anyway? that seems rather high handed.



I take everyone on individual merit. Most people want that, don't they?


No free rides. I already have a deity.


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