# Aching joints in my lower body



## DreamyInToronto (Dec 16, 2009)

Hi all I am 35 and 5'5" and 268 pounds. Lately I have noticed that all of my joints below by waist have been aching... my knees ankles, feet and low back too. I have been a BBW for the last 10 years or so and I have never had a problem like this before. Does anyone have any advice and/or recommendations for a natural remedy to try?

Thanks and I look forward to hearing your replies.

:bow:


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## DreamyInToronto (Dec 16, 2009)

just hoping to get a reply or two or 200!


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## minerva (Dec 17, 2009)

Hi Dreamy,

Do you joints ache all the time, or do the aches and pains come and go? Is it mostly when you walk? Have you had any recent injuries? Are you very active? Do you get much exercise? Have you done any unusual physical exercise lately? Is it worse in the morning? Or the evening? Have you tried taking aspirin or ibuprofen? Did it relieve your pain? Is the pain enough to stop you from doing something you would otherwise do? How long have you had these symptoms?  Have they progressed/gradually worsened, improved, or stayed the same?


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## Tad (Dec 17, 2009)

To add to the questions: have you changed footwear lately? Like new boots you've started wearing with the cold weather, for example. 

My wife has pretty messed up ankles and knees, and over the years she's found that what she is wearing on her feet makes a huge difference in whether she is fine or whether she is in pain.


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## OppositesAttract(fa) (May 17, 2010)

minerva's and Tad's question are both very relevant to seeking to help you with your concerns here expressed, much along the lines of say, if an automobile had recently started blowing smoke, a competent mechanic would inquire as to whether the smoke were blue or white, with blue smoke possibly indicating an inordinate amount of engine oil getting into the combustion chamber, and white smoke being indicative of engine coolant making its way into the combustion chamber or exhaust ports.

What might be called arthritic pains similarly can have differing etiologies, such as for instance (a) traumatic or repetitive strain injury to a joint*, or (b) deposition of circulating immune complexes (CICs) into weakened tissues, the "mopping up" of which CICs by the immune system involves an inflammatory process*.

(*) 'osteoarthritis'
(**) 'rheumatoid/inflammatory/autoimmune arthritis'

Had the onset of symptoms not been preceded by any traumatic or repetitive strain injury, an autoimmune etiology would be more likely.

Proper diagnosis in such a case would yet require further investigation, such as into what form might the CICs might be taking, how the CICs have been getting into systemic circulation, and what factors had weakened the tissues in which the CICs may be lodging and thereby provoking an inflammatory response.

Additional background concerning the possibility of CICs serving as a link in the symptom etiology follow.

Antibiotic use could be a factor, as the aftermath of treatment with certain antibiotics is deposition of bacterial fragments, antibiotic residue, and/or bacterial endotoxins in tissues near the site where the targeted infection was "cleared", which aftermath of the chaotic mixing of "self" and "non-self" serves to "confuse" those immune cells that constantly check the molecular-level configuration of the body against one's genetic blueprint, so that the "chaotic mix of self and non-self" just described serves to program the immune system to "cross-react" against "self" and "non-self" alike.

Gut or intestinal integrity may be compromised, such as by antibiotic treatment or silver/mercury/tin/copper/zinc ('amalgam') fillings killing off helpful bacteria, whereby the ability of the digestive system to prevent undigested food particles from getting into systemic circulation is compromised, which undigested food particles are one of the subtypes of the CICs referenced above.

Upon having established a likely etiology behind ones symptomology, a more precisely targeted treatment regimen can of course be chosen.


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## OppositesAttract(fa) (May 28, 2010)

Additional information potentially relevant to this thread, which information concerns (a) various of the manifestations of arthritis, (b) a supplement regarded by many as being useful in treating said condition, and (c) the apparent modes of action of said supplement in treating the specified manifestations of said condition, follows.

N-Acetylglucosamine may help certain of the manifestations of arthritis (1) by providing raw material for rebuilding cartilage (and thus ameliorating osteoarthritis), (2) by providing raw material for increasing intestinal barrier integrity (and thus ameliorating inflammatory arthritis brought on by the passage of partially-digested food particles into systemic circulation through a "leaky gut"), and/or (3) by serving as a "sink" for wheat germ agglutinin (WGA) (and thus ameliorating inflammatory arthritis by reducing (a) the degree to which WGA is able to systemically stimulate pro-inflammatory chemical messenger synthesis, (b) the degree to which WGA is able to systemically stimulate pro-inflammatory immune system processes, and/or (c) the degree to which WGA is able to detrimentally affect intestinal integrity, and, thereby and as before, ameliorate inflammatory arthritis brought on by the passage of partially-digested food particles into systemic circulation through a "leaky gut"). 

- 

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/content...-box-critical-role-wheat-lectin-human-disease

"One way to gauge just how pervasive the adverse effects of WGA are among wheat-consuming populations is the popularity of the dietary supplement glucosamine. In the USA, a quarter billion dollars worth of the glucosamine is sold annually. The main source of glucosamine on the market is from the N-Acetylglucosamine rich chitin exoskelotons of crustaceans, like shrimp and crab. Glucosamine is used for reducing pain and inflammation. We do not have a dietary deficiency of the pulverized shells of dead sea critters, just as our use of NSAIDs is not caused by a deficiency of these synthetic chemicals in our diet. When we consume glucosamine supplements, the WGA, instead of binding to our tissues, binds to the pulverized chitin in the glucosamine supplements, sparing us from the full impact of WGA. Many millions of Americans who have greatly reduced their pain and suffering by ingesting glucosamine and NSAIDs may be better served by removing wheat, the underlying cause of their malaise, from their diets. This would result in even greater relief from pain and inflammation along with far less dependency on palliative supplements and medicines alike." 

. . . 

"At exceedingly small concentrations (nanomolar) WGA stimulates the synthesis of pro-inflammatory chemical messengers (cytokines) including Interleukin 1, Interleukin 6 and Interleukin 8 in intestinal and immune cells. WGA has been shown to induce NADPH-Oxidase in human neutrophils associated with the respiratory burst that results in the release of inflammatory free radicals called reactive oxygen species. WGA has been shown to play a causative role in patients with chronic thin gut inflammation." 

. . . 

"WGA causes increased shedding of the intestinal brush border membrane, reduction in surface area, acceleration of cell losses and shortening of villi, via binding to the surface of the villi. WGA can mimic the effects of epidermal growth factor (EGF) at the cellular level, indicating that the crypt hyperplasia seen in celiac disease may be due to the growth-promoting effects of WGA. WGA causes cytoskeleton degradation in intestinal cells, contributing to cell death and increased turnover. WGA decreases levels of heat shock proteins in gut epithelial cells leaving these cells less well protected against the potentially harmful content of the gut lumen."


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## moore2me (May 29, 2010)

*OppositesAttrac(fa),
The two posts below confused me a little. Here is an attempt to whittle them down to something I can understand. My comments are in blue. M2M (It would help it you could cite your sources and identify what paragraphs the citations apply to.)*

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OppositesAttract(fa) said:


> minerva's and Tad's question are both very relevant to seeking to help you with your concerns here expressed, much along the lines of say, if an automobile had recently started blowing smoke, a competent mechanic would inquire as to whether the smoke were blue or white, with blue smoke possibly indicating an inordinate amount of engine oil getting into the combustion chamber, and white smoke being indicative of engine coolant making its way into the combustion chamber or exhaust ports.
> 
> *(I like the car engine analogy above to explain diagnosis.)*
> 
> ...



*(If we know what causes a problem, we might be able to fix it.)*


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## moore2me (May 29, 2010)

*Here's my attempt to translate Part Two into my level of understanding. M2M*

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Part Two



OppositesAttract(fa) said:


> Additional information potentially relevant to this thread, which information concerns (a) various of the manifestations of arthritis, (b) a supplement regarded by many as being useful in treating said condition, and (c) the apparent modes of action of said supplement in treating the specified manifestations of said condition, follows.
> 
> *(Again, we haven’t established it is arthritis.)*
> 
> ...



*(Same here.)*


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