# Is everyone really relationship material??



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 27, 2007)

We were discussing in the Clubhouse a topic that is rather interesting. As a woman, it seems I've gone from relationship to relationship and I just can't seem to find "the one". It made me think a lot recently... "am I meant to really have a long-term relationship?" Is everyone truly relationship material?

I am an exceptionally independent woman. I've lived on my own since I was 21 years old. I've worked for my employer for 23 years, and as a result, I have never asked my parents for help financially...I've always supported myself. I've always been the one that people come to for help. Now, at nearly 44 years old, I'm falling into the position of caretaker to my aging parents. They're still quite independent themselves, but I see them relying on me more and more for things. I have two older brothers who can barely take care of themselves, let alone my parents. I have a 13-year old nephew who lives with his mother...in a rather less than desireable home situation, so I find myself taking care of him as well. My point here is, I've always been the strong one...the one everyone else leans on. Now, I have no problem with the role. I help everyone I can, to the best of my ability. I get great satisfaction in helping others. BUT......

When is it going to be MY turn?? When is someone going to be there for me? Hence the discussion of a relationship. In most relationships, each partner is there to help and support the other. WELL, I haven't had that priviledge, as yet, and I wonder if I ever will. Does my independence and strength keep me from finding the perfect relationship for me?? Do men shy away from independent women? I've been told by friends, family and co-workers that I'm pushy, bossy, brassy, mouthy and intimidating. Well, yeah, I probably am...when the situation warrants it, but I don't think it's a regular 24/7 thing. When I know what I want, I go after it. BUT, is that pushing men out of my life? OR, am I just not relationship material?

Who else has this problem? Is it us? Or are we just not relationship material? Men - speak up here... I really want to know what you think. Is a strong, independent woman really such a bad thing?? Are we just not finding the right men? Do we really need to "rein it in"?? Are you attracted to strong, independent women, and then you find out that you really aren't? What are we doing wrong? Ladies... am I the only one who is struggling here? Are we that terrible?? Who wants to join the convent with me?? (yes, it seems that bad *at times*..LOL)

I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.....


----------



## wrestlingguy (Sep 27, 2007)

Hey, Violet. I had a chance to read your post during a quick lunch break, and felt compelled to respond to you, since you want a male perspective.

Let's go over a few points you made.



> My point here is, I've always been the strong one...the one everyone else leans on. Now, I have no problem with the role. I help everyone I can, to the best of my ability. I get great satisfaction in helping others. BUT......
> 
> When is it going to be MY turn?? When is someone going to be there for me?



Throughout history, men have typically been the caretakers, it's kinda been an unwritten rule. Most men are just expected to be, although it appears to me to be changing since the 1960's. That said, a lot of men expect women today to step up to the plate & be the caretaker, not only for the extended family that you describe, but to be "mommy" to the guy you date or marry.

The other part of this is, many guys have this sense that if someone else is looking for a "caretaker", it's a turnoff to them. While that contradicts what I just said previously, most men KNOW they are expected to be the caretaker/breadwinner, they just don't want it thrown in their faces. I've known many men who have literally run away from relationships where the woman expressed any kind of emotional need that would require action on the part of the guy. With a lot of men, that tends to be a deal breaker. I really don't think it's the case with ALL men, but it could be within your dating circle.



> Is a strong, independent woman really such a bad thing?? Are we just not finding the right men? Do we really need to "rein it in"?? Are you attracted to strong, independent women, and then you find out that you really aren't?



In my opinion, a strong, independent woman is not a bad thing at all, in fact, I like that trait in my wife. We tend to compliment each other. She's strong in areas that I am weak, and vice versa. 

Some guys still don't know how to take a strong independent woman. As I said, in my case, that was part of my attraction to Carla. As far as "reining it in", I think Carla knows when to make the strong independent woman go away, and be a girly girl when she wants or needs to.

Do I think that guys like the damsel in distress more than the strong woman? I think it depends on the man. I think that men who are more sure of themselves recognize that a woman has a need to be strong and assertive as well, and allows that woman to be whatever she needs to be, strong or otherwise. Yeah, there are still some guys who prefer that their gals still not know how to hammer a nail, but I think their numbers are dwindling.

Guys that lack confidence LOVE to be mothered.......hell, they'll take advantage of it every chance they get. The problem usually is that when relationships progress, they view that mothering that they loved so much in the beginning as controlling later, and usually end the relationship when they reach that realization. You mentioned that your brothers can barely take care of themselves. Are they married or in relationships? What are their spouses/girlfriends like? 

I see it this way. It took me 47 years and a previous marriage to finally find Carla. Relationships are kind of like shopping. You keep walking down the aisle, trying things on until you finally find what fits really well. Discard the stuff from your shopping cart that you don't want, and keep what you do.

PS.......don't join the convent, we need all the pretty fat women on the outside!


----------



## tattooU (Sep 27, 2007)

This is something i've struggled with for years. As a child, i was regularly caring for my mother and grandmother. Through most of my life i've done some part of caregiving for my caregiver. 

But i can't say that a long term relationship has helped any. i've been married for 9 years and my husband's well being has been the focus of our relationship for the past 10 years. 

i don't know how to get out of this cycle. Is it that i put myself into this role, regardless of relationship? Is it that i seek out people to help? 

i wish i had some insight for you, but i'm in the same boat as you


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 27, 2007)

Phil thank you so much for all that info!! You make some very good points and really covered things that I hadn't thought of. 

One thing I will say that I don't think I made myself very clear on... I am not necessarily looking for someone to "take care of me". I'm not looking to sit back and do nothing... I just want a shoulder to lean on and a partner to share the responsiblity with. And you're right... some guys are looking for someone to mother them. I don't want to be anyone's mother, that's for sure. I made a choice a long time ago not to have children... I sure don't want an adult child to take care of. I don't think though, that I'm putting the vibe out there that I'm looking to be taken care of. 

You mentioned what I said about my brothers. My oldest brother is 47. He's been in a few relationships, but he's very much a loner. He is incredibly intelligent, but just can't managed day-to-day by himself. He's always asking me or my mother to help with with basic little things. Go figure. My other brother is going to be 46 in a few weeks and he is a take charge person and his wife is a doormat. BUT, when it comes to being responsible, he'd rather leave that to everyone else to take care of, and he just takes care of himself and ONLY himself.

I think in my particular case, my "take charge" attitude tends to get me in trouble. I'll bulldoze my way until I get what I want. Oh I bulldoze in a nice, polite, non-confrontational way, but I'm still bulldozing. I think THAT is what I need to re-think and adjust. 

I guess I just wonder if my independence is causing me trouble. I'm so used to doing everything for myself...I think I need to learn to back off at certain times... I haven't perfected that yet... LOL 

I'll pass on the convent for now... I don't think I could tolerate the wardrobe!! 

Thanks again Phil... I really do appreciate it!!


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 27, 2007)

I don't mind being a "caretaker", necessarily. What I'm referring to isn't about being a caretaker per se... it's about finding someone to share my responsiblity with and finding someone to care about ME for a change. Does that make sense?

I just think that my independent attitude is causing me problems in finding a good relationship. I think I just tend to come on too strong, and really push to try and make it work, instead of just letting it happen. 





tattooU said:


> This is something i've struggled with for years. As a child, i was regularly caring for my mother and grandmother. Through most of my life i've done some part of caregiving for my caregiver.
> 
> But i can't say that a long term relationship has helped any. i've been married for 9 years and my husband's well being has been the focus of our relationship for the past 10 years.
> 
> ...


----------



## platinumpuzzy (Sep 27, 2007)

I just read my own story with a few differences, it was like reading my own diary. My problem is that I learned so much from watching failed relationships crumble to the ground that it almost seems that I have become "too" educated in the sense that I don't take the risks like I used to when I was younger and less informed. Knowing your self worth is great, and having high expectations is ok much like being independent and knowing you don't need anyone... but the question for me is - am I looking in the right places for the kind of man that will compliment who I am? Or is there even a "kind" of man that I should date? For me lately its been finding someone who can maintain my interest long enough to get to a second date let a long a relationship. And then when you find Mr Could Be Right he gives you that bullshyt about "Only looking for a friend and not ready to settle down" I am afraid I have become complacent and comfortable with being single in a sub-concious secure way, but my heart still yearns for affection. I have spent all my life being independent because I knew that's the respectable thing to be... what everyone compliments and admires. But at what cost? I feel your pain, and although my reply is boggled up and goes in 10 different directions hopefully you can read what I am trying to say. I feel ya girl!


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 27, 2007)

Oh your post makes perfect sense to me!! I am right there with you! I can't find the magic formula... for either of us! LOL If I do, I'll have a BIG old post on here with complete instructions... believe me.

It's tough though... it really is. It seems were damned if we do and damned if we don't. 




platinumpuzzy said:


> I just read my own story with a few differences, it was like reading my own diary. My problem is that I learned so much from watching failed relationships crumble to the ground that it almost seems that I have become "too" educated in the sense that I don't take the risks like I used to when I was younger and less informed. Knowing your self worth is great, and having high expectations is ok much like being independent and knowing you don't need anyone... but the question for me is - am I looking in the right places for the kind of man that will compliment who I am? Or is there even a "kind" of man that I should date? For me lately its been finding someone who can maintain my interest long enough to get to a second date let a long a relationship. And then when you find Mr Could Be Right he gives you that bullshyt about "Only looking for a friend and not ready to settle down" I am afraid I have become complacent and comfortable with being single in a sub-concious secure way, but my heart still yearns for affection. I have spent all my life being independent because I knew that's the respectable thing to be... what everyone compliments and admires. But at what cost? I feel your pain, and although my reply is boggled up and goes in 10 different directions hopefully you can read what I am trying to say. I feel ya girl!


----------



## Keb (Sep 27, 2007)

I don't think you can classify a person as "not relationship material" anymore than you can tell someone that they're just not suited to whatever dreams they happen to have. While it's true that for a relationship to work, you'll probably have to a) find a person that fits well with your personality and b) learn to compromise even with them, which isn't always easy, that doesn't mean you should just jump ship now. It's also true that some people's dream jobs just seem to land in their laps, and other people have to work hard and never achieve what they want to...but that doesn't mean the other people aren't made of the right stuff.


----------



## galin2006 (Sep 27, 2007)

After reading your post, I understand your frustration. I don't think it's the crucial role you play in your family that is turning men off from having a long term relationship with you at all. You sound like a great catch, and your independence and caring nature seems more likely to draw men in.

However, there could be other factors that are affecting your difficulty in finding a long term partner. The good thing about you is that you're not willing to just settle, as it seems. Today, so many people are in relationships full of longevity that also lack fulfillment. You know what you deserve, and thus it would be meaningless to be in a committed relationship with someone who could give you less than that. 

I also believe there's a major communication problem between men and women. I always have friends or meet people who make me think, _Ahh, they would be perfect for each other_ but either they're too shy, can't admit what they truly want, or think that they want something different (that may not be in their best interest). **Bad example but I hope you got the point anyway.*

Another issue: I think we unintentionally close ourselves off from people. Maybe you don't notice it but you tend to have your guard up. For instance, you really love you're family, but when you don't feel like there's a balance between what you're giving and what your getting in return, you might be subconsciously saying to yourself, _Why would I open myself up and be there for another person when my needs aren't being met?_

And remember, there is no time limit to finding that person who is right for you. You may have spent 20+ years looking for your match, but don't feel defeated. 44 is young in today's world. Also you live in a society where a person can find true love in a nursing home (sounds funny, but not meaning for it to), even after the death of their husband/wife of 50+ years.

Just remember, you're still young, you have plenty of options and venues for witch to find people (especially with the advent of the internet), you have a lot to offer--just be sure of what you want, that what your asking for is reasonable, and keep your self open to all possibilities (especially those you wouldn't expect).

--sorry if I went on too long--


----------



## Tad (Sep 27, 2007)

Violet;

I have no idea if any of this is relevant to your relationships, this is just some of my general thoughts on the subject:

- in healthy relationships I think people are interdependent, in a good way. They admit where their partner is better at something, and trust them to take care of it. This does take time to develop (which is why biology equips us with infatuation, to keep us together while this can grow!)

- Personally I think that the best way to predict if a relationship will last is if both parties are working to build and strengthen the relationship. That is, they put not themselves, not the other person, but the relationship first. If friends call up and ask me to play cards tonight, I should be using as the first cut not that I want to go or whether my wife is willing for me to go--especially not that latter, making her responsible is totally unfair--but rather what is reasonable in our relationship? How much have I been away, are there things we need to talk about, are there chores to be done, has she had a night out lately....in short, does me going out put stress on the relationship, and if so how much, and is that reasonable?

- Not everyone gets in relationships. My paternal grandmother was one of three sisters, and her two sisters never married--they had jobs, and back then you had to quit when you got married, and they were not willing to do that. They lived a very good life, sharing an apartment until dying not far apart in their 90s. My mom is also one of three sisters, and one of her sisters has never married--after university and some volunteer work in Africa she moved back to the family farm, helped take care of things as my grandparents got older, and still lives on her own in the old farm house (I have no idea of why she chose this route, it always seemed rude to ask). Yet my grandmother stayed happily (I think) married her whole life, and my mother and her sister both married in their early twenties and are still in those marriages decades later. So it did not seem to be a family upbringing thing of knowing how to have a good relationship, more of individual temperament and priorities.

- Much though I generally loathe doctor Phil, I do sometimes find his question of "Do you want to be right, or be happy?" to be a useful one. Sometimes 'tis better to give way (and sometimes it is not).

So, no answers for you, just some more thoughts for the mental mill.

Regards;

-Ed


----------



## CuteyChubb (Sep 27, 2007)

I only read the very first post in this thread as I am at work and sneaking in a response quick...I have recently accepted the fact that due to my independence and being without a serious relationship for so long that I am no longer relationship material. I am set in my ways and that's how it is. I'm ok with that. I wouldn't mind dating casually but the whole "happily ever after thing" does not apply to me. I was married last year for the first time and it lasted 6 months. You aren't alone, but things can always change. "He" can be just around the corner.


----------



## platinumpuzzy (Sep 27, 2007)

Thanks for all the great advice.. and girl I don't think there is a formula.. I think that its just not the right time. For some it happens early in life, others later in life. It happens when its READY to happen. I have learned to appreciate this ME time and learn about who I am and what I have to contribute the world. At least we aren't taking on a pity party with "whats wrong with me" The right man will appreciate you for who you are, what you stand for and support you no matter what. Unfortunately, there aren't MANY of them around that are single. But there are some still out there. I can admit that coming home to a man who loves me and I adore and love in return is a fantasy long awaiting to be fullfilled, but like any of my other fantasies when the time is right it too will come in due time.

:kiss2:


----------



## Dr. Feelgood (Sep 27, 2007)

It's a funny thing about relationships: they've almost become a commodity. When I was a kid, women were sold the idea that marriage would be the answer to all their problems; now, it seems as if I'm always reading that a "committed relationship" is somehow a guarantee of perpetual happiness. I think what p.p. says about having fantasies is really relevant here, because I sense an attempt to sell a lot of people a fantasy.
One of the buyers was my ex-wife -- a strong, independent woman who wanted a wedding (which would validate her success as a woman) but discovered she didn't really want a husband. I did my best, but there's no doubt that, just by being there, I constituted an impediment to her freedom. I don't think you'll be misled by a fantasy, Violet, since you seem to me to be uncommonly smart and level-headed. ( All the same, you might ask yourself whether you really _want_ to spend the next forty years picking up some guy's dirty socks...)


----------



## Ernest Nagel (Sep 27, 2007)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> Who else has this problem? Is it us? Or are we just not relationship material? Men - speak up here... I really want to know what you think. Is a strong, independent woman really such a bad thing?? Are we just not finding the right men? Do we really need to "rein it in"?? Are you attracted to strong, independent women, and then you find out that you really aren't? What are we doing wrong? Ladies... am I the only one who is struggling here? Are we that terrible?? Who wants to join the convent with me?? (yes, it seems that bad *at times*..LOL)
> 
> I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.....


 
Well, interesting you should bring this up. I spent about a year after the end of my 2nd marriage determined that I was absolutely NOT relationship material. (I seem to have a history of turning nice girls into passive/aggressive, manipulative bitches.) Then someone came along who just disintegrated that resolve in about 2 conversations. She is fabulously strong willed and independent and just generally extraordinary in every regard. Really "pinch myself, I'm dreaming, sweet, hawt, brilliant, gorgeous"; as complete a package as I've ever imagined. And here's the thing, I'm such an arrogant, neurotic ass I'm worried that I'm gonna somehow screw her up like every other woman I've ever been in relationship with. I couldn't stand it if that happened and it's so hard to keep from wanting this to be the happy exception. She's happy and successful, never married and no big concern whether she ever will be. I keep asking myself if the decent thing to do wouldn't be to just walk away and not look back, knowing I'd done what was probably best for her? 

So my question back to all you lovely, independent ladies is how would you feel about someone making that kind of decision for you? If you knew he was doing it out of sincere regard for your happiness, would you respect his consideration for you or resent his lack of willingness to allow you to make your own choice in the matter? I guess I probably know the answer if I ask it that way so let me rephrase. If the odds looked almost 100% (based on evidence to date) that you'd both wind up getting hurt, isn't the decent thing to just wave off? Isn't a convent preferable to a major heartbreak? 

If she needed a man to be happy I might think differently, but that's not the case. I guess that's where the independence thing might kinda work against you? The odds that I could make her any happier, provide anything she really needs, don't look that damn good. My ego doesn't require that I be needed but decency dictates that I not risk the happiness she already has, doesn't it? Wanting someone, no matter how desperately, does not necessarily imply you're supposed to be with them.

In more generic reply to VB's inquiry, men of my generation don't like losing, especially when the stakes are high. I especially don't like letting down my teammates/partners. But at a certain point I just have to acknowledge romantic relationships are not my game, don't I? I generally have a really great life and it seems kinda pissy to negate all I do have just because I don't have someone to share it with. And I effing *HATE* giving up! I guess the real question is whether I hate it worse than losing? 

Sorry this is a little scrambled. It's a hard thing to confront.


----------



## Stoner (Sep 27, 2007)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> Men - speak up here... I really want to know what you think. Is a strong, independent woman really such a bad thing?? Are we just not finding the right men? Do we really need to "rein it in"?? Are you attracted to strong, independent women, and then you find out that you really aren't? What are we doing wrong?



There really isnt much I can add to what has already been said, except that strong and independent women can scare some men. The first time I was in a serious relationship, she was that kind of woman, and I, being the die-hard introvert I have always been, felt a bit overwhelmed about it at first. But one cant run away from the nature of things; opposites do attract, so soon enough the initial scare gave place to fascination.

In the end, what makes each one of us to be relationship material or not, will depend on what we expect from a relationship. I always expected reciprocity when in a relationship, and in the couple ones Ive been into, I was lucky enough to have that. I was also the one who wasnt wise enough to make things work, so being relationship material certainly doesnt have anything to do with gender, either.

-Nuno


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 27, 2007)

I'll agree that much of a relationship has to do with meshing personalities...no doubt at all. I'll also agree that a big part of a relationship is compromise. One person can't have it their way, every single time. Life in general is a give and take. You're right too... it looks (to me, at least) that the whole process of finding a relationship is an absolute piece of cake for some people... then for the rest of us... not so much. 

THAT is when I wonder if I am really relationship material.




Keb said:


> I don't think you can classify a person as "not relationship material" anymore than you can tell someone that they're just not suited to whatever dreams they happen to have. While it's true that for a relationship to work, you'll probably have to a) find a person that fits well with your personality and b) learn to compromise even with them, which isn't always easy, that doesn't mean you should just jump ship now. It's also true that some people's dream jobs just seem to land in their laps, and other people have to work hard and never achieve what they want to...but that doesn't mean the other people aren't made of the right stuff.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 27, 2007)

You make a very interesting point here... very interesting. I do find myself giving a "brassy" response in situations... to "protect myself".... so perhaps I'm subconsciously "sabotaging" myself, again, to protect myself. Hmmmm.... interesting.

As far as the time factor.... I've chosen not to have kids, so it's not the proverbial "biological clock" thing... but I do feel like every day is wasted. I've felt that way since I turned 40. 





galin2006 said:


> _snip..... _Another issue: I think we unintentionally close ourselves off from people. *Maybe you don't notice it but you tend to have your guard up.* For instance, you really love you're family, but when you don't feel like there's a balance between what you're giving and what your getting in return, you might be subconsciously saying to yourself, _Why would I open myself up and be there for another person when my needs aren't being met?_
> 
> *And remember, there is no time limit to finding that person who is right for you. You may have spent 20+ years looking for your match, but don't feel defeated. 44 is young in today's world. Also you live in a society where a person can find true love in a nursing home (sounds funny, but not meaning for it to), even after the death of their husband/wife of 50+ years.*
> Just remember, you're still young, you have plenty of options and venues for witch to find people (especially with the advent of the internet), you have a lot to offer--just be sure of what you want, that what your asking for is reasonable, and keep your self open to all possibilities (especially those you wouldn't expect).


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 27, 2007)

All very good thoughts for the mental mill, Ed... thank you!! 

I think in my case, I'm not _dying_ to get married... I don't feel like I need a husband to make me happy. Generally I am quite happy in my life. But I would like a man to _share_ my life with, and to share his. I have a friend who is absolutely convinced that having a boyfriend or a husband will instantly make her happy. No. I know that is not the truth. A partner will _add _to your happiness, but they are not a cure-all for an unhappy life. That has to come from within.

Relationships are complicated business.... am I sure I want this??







edx said:


> Violet;
> 
> I have no idea if any of this is relevant to your relationships, this is just some of my general thoughts on the subject:
> 
> ...


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 27, 2007)

I'm like you.. very set in my ways. I have always thought it would be a huge adjustment for me if I were to get into a serious relationship. BUT, if it is the "right" relationship, the adjustment wouldn't be a burdon, but a welcome change... at least I would think so. 

Good luck to both of us, huh?? 





CuteyChubb said:


> I only read the very first post in this thread as I am at work and sneaking in a response quick...I have recently accepted the fact that due to my independence and being without a serious relationship for so long that I am no longer relationship material. I am set in my ways and that's how it is. I'm ok with that. I wouldn't mind dating casually but the whole "happily ever after thing" does not apply to me. I was married last year for the first time and it lasted 6 months. You aren't alone, but things can always change. "He" can be just around the corner.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 27, 2007)

You know, up until recently, I thought I was ready.... but after a very recent brief relationship... am I? I can say.. I learned a lot about myself... my actions... my expectations. I can only hope that I have another opportunity to test what I've learned. 

Whether I'm worthy of that test is what I question now..... Is it meant to be... for me??




platinumpuzzy said:


> Thanks for all the great advice.. and girl I don't think there is a formula.. I think that its just not the right time. For some it happens early in life, others later in life. It happens when its READY to happen. I have learned to appreciate this ME time and learn about who I am and what I have to contribute the world. At least we aren't taking on a pity party with "whats wrong with me" The right man will appreciate you for who you are, what you stand for and support you no matter what. Unfortunately, there aren't MANY of them around that are single. But there are some still out there. I can admit that coming home to a man who loves me and I adore and love in return is a fantasy long awaiting to be fullfilled, but like any of my other fantasies when the time is right it too will come in due time.
> 
> :kiss2:


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 27, 2007)

You know... I've asked myself a zillion times... do I really want a relationship?? Do I want to give up a part of my independence... do I want to compromise my lifestyle?? I don't need a husband to make me happy, or validate my success. BUT, that said... I would like a man in my life to ADD to my life... to have someone to care about me.... to give a damn about whether I'm safe, if I got home okay.... just the little things in life... someone who really CARES. 

Eh... picking up dirty socks isn't so glamourous, you're right, but I'd like the opportunity though... 




Dr. Feelgood said:


> It's a funny thing about relationships: they've almost become a commodity. When I was a kid, women were sold the idea that marriage would be the answer to all their problems; now, it seems as if I'm always reading that a "committed relationship" is somehow a guarantee of perpetual happiness. I think what p.p. says about having fantasies is really relevant here, because I sense an attempt to sell a lot of people a fantasy.
> One of the buyers was my ex-wife -- a strong, independent woman who wanted a wedding (which would validate her success as a woman) but discovered she didn't really want a husband. I did my best, but there's no doubt that, just by being there, I constituted an impediment to her freedom. I don't think you'll be misled by a fantasy, Violet, since you seem to me to be uncommonly smart and level-headed. ( All the same, you might ask yourself whether you really _want_ to spend the next forty years picking up some guy's dirty socks...)


----------



## tonynyc (Sep 27, 2007)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> You make a very interesting point here... very interesting. I do find myself giving a "brassy" response in situations... to "protect myself".... so perhaps I'm subconsciously "sabotaging" myself, again, to protect myself. Hmmmm.... interesting.
> 
> As far as the time factor.... I've chosen not to have kids, so it's not the proverbial "biological clock" thing... but I do feel like every day is wasted. I've felt that way since I turned 40.



*
Violet:
Wow-there are so many point in this thread and each can have a forum of it's own : being A caretaker (especially a double-whammy for Boomer folks that have to take care of Aging Parents and Little Ones at the same time) now wonder they often call us "The Sandwich Generation".- and finding a new relationship when the other has ended due to a loss (divorce,death etc.) just brings another level of challenge. 

As others have already said ;it's a compromise. Also it's finding the right 
person that would enjoy your brassiness as much as you would enjoy their brassiness and or other unique qualities. You don't strike me as the type that would be happy with one that wasn't equally brassy and loving.

Also, It's not that one is not relationship material-but, that one would not settle for the next best thing. The biggest tragedy is to be in a relationship for the sake of it with a partner that there is no love interest. 

Never look at any day as a wasted day. Each day brings us something 

*


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 27, 2007)

Ernest, I can without a doubt say, that I would NOT want a guy making a decision like that for me. That should be a decision made together. That is a major characteristic of the independent woman in me, I'm sure. I would respect his concern and consideration for me, but, if he cared enough about me, he would TELL me those concerns. Take the opportunity to work it out together. 

And no, a convent is NOT preferrable to heartbreak. LOL






Ernest Nagel said:


> Well, interesting you should bring this up. I spent about a year after the end of my 2nd marriage determined that I was absolutely NOT relationship material. (I seem to have a history of turning nice girls into passive/aggressive, manipulative bitches.) Then someone came along who just disintegrated that resolve in about 2 conversations. She is fabulously strong willed and independent and just generally extraordinary in every regard. Really "pinch myself, I'm dreaming, sweet, hawt, brilliant, gorgeous"; as complete a package as I've ever imagined. And here's the thing, I'm such an arrogant, neurotic ass I'm worried that I'm gonna somehow screw her up like every other woman I've ever been in relationship with. I couldn't stand it if that happened and it's so hard to keep from wanting this to be the happy exception. She's happy and successful, never married and no big concern whether she ever will be. I keep asking myself if the decent thing to do wouldn't be to just walk away and not look back, knowing I'd done what was probably best for her?
> 
> So my question back to all you lovely, independent ladies is how would you feel about someone making that kind of decision for you? If you knew he was doing it out of sincere regard for your happiness, would you respect his consideration for you or resent his lack of willingness to allow you to make your own choice in the matter? I guess I probably know the answer if I ask it that way so let me rephrase. If the odds looked almost 100% (based on evidence to date) that you'd both wind up getting hurt, isn't the decent thing to just wave off? Isn't a convent preferable to a major heartbreak?
> 
> ...


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 27, 2007)

I can absolutely see where strong, independent women can scare men. Definitely. I just think, in my case at least, I need to learn to control my independence and control the "bulldozer" in me. 





Stoner said:


> There really isnt much I can add to what has already been said, except that strong and independent women can scare some men. The first time I was in a serious relationship, she was that kind of woman, and I, being the die-hard introvert I have always been, felt a bit overwhelmed about it at first. But one cant run away from the nature of things; opposites do attract, so soon enough the initial scare gave place to fascination.
> 
> In the end, what makes each one of us to be relationship material or not, will depend on what we expect from a relationship. I always expected reciprocity when in a relationship, and in the couple ones Ive been into, I was lucky enough to have that. I was also the one who wasnt wise enough to make things work, so being relationship material certainly doesnt have anything to do with gender, either.
> 
> -Nuno


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 27, 2007)

Tony thank you.... In a perfect world I should be able to find a person who accepts that brassiness...but up until now...nope. You say I don't strike you as the type of person who'd settle?? You would be surprised how many times I HAVE settled in relationships. 

As far as the time factor... I do feel like each day is wasted... in regards to a relationship. I hate the thought of wasting each day and then someday down the road, finally finding "the one" and we're too old to enjoy our lives?? That is my fear. 





tonynyc said:


> *
> Violet:
> Wow-there are so many point in this thread and each can have a forum of it's own : being A caretaker (especially a double-whammy for Boomer folks that have to take care of Aging Parents and Little Ones at the same time) now wonder they often call us "The Sandwich Generation".- and finding a new relationship when the other has ended due to a loss (divorce,death etc.) just brings another level of challenge.
> 
> ...


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 27, 2007)

Thanks everyone, for some great thoughts and responses. I think this is an interesting topic... one that provides a lot of food for thought. Are we relationship material... or do we subconsciously sabotage ourselves as a protection tactic? The more I think about this, I think I've definitely sabotaged myself without realizing it. I've also sabotaged myself by getting over-anxious and expecting too much too soon. So perhaps in my case, I may be relationship material, I just need to use my strength and independence in my favor, instead of allowing it to sabotage me. 

Make sense?


----------



## Ernest Nagel (Sep 27, 2007)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> Thanks everyone, for some great thoughts and responses. I think this is an interesting topic... one that provides a lot of food for thought. Are we relationship material... or do we subconsciously sabotage ourselves as a protection tactic? The more I think about this, I think I've definitely sabotaged myself without realizing it. I've also sabotaged myself by getting over-anxious and expecting too much too soon. So perhaps in my case, I may be relationship material, I just need to use my strength and independence in my favor, instead of allowing it to sabotage me.
> 
> Make sense?



This is kind of an interesting survey re relationship self sabotage, for whatever it's worth?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20286081/site/newsweek/ 

I took it and according to them I'm not the problem, but it sure doesn't feel that way?!?


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 27, 2007)

I just thought of another issue that I struggle with.... control. I tend to want to control every situation... again, probably as a protection measure. As a result... the bulldozer comes out in me, so that I can keep control of the situation. In my brain, I keep thinking it is so that can "get what I want", but, am I sabotaging myself instead???

Hmmmmm.....

I gotta tell you all... I'm learning a lot here..... about relationships, about men... and mostly about me.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus (Sep 27, 2007)

Wow Vi that's a lot of questions in one post but you also got a lot of good answers. I'm not sure I can say anything new but I have some thoughts.

At the age of 30 I resigned myself to being alone all my life - and I was really OK with that. I dated but never looked for it to be anything more than casual. I had one devistating abusive relationship that made me so angry, confused and jaded that I swore off dating for good. And again I was OK with that. I have always been aggressive, bossy, pushy, independent etc, and that wasn't going to change. I spent most of my time concentrating on me and what I wanted out of life if I really was going to be alone. I think we can find ways to sheild ourselves from relationships if we want to and for me it was my job. 

My best friend knew inside that hard shell of "I don't need anyone to be happy" I was lonely and really did want a man in my life. She forced me to go with her to a BBW Halloween dance. I didn't want to go - I was angry as we got there. I sat in a corner and pouted. Then in walked this cute redhead dressed like Robin Hood. I knew the minute I saw him I would marry him. He sat down next to me and the first thing we said to eat other almost in unison was, "I'm not looking for a relationship - I just want to date." and I think we both relaxed at that point knowing neither of us had any expectations.

We spent the rest of the night makin out in that corner of the bar, LOL

Over the next three months we spoke on the phone a lot and became friends - 3 months later we started officially dating, 10 months later we moved in together - 4 months later we got married.

One point I need to make. Everyone likes to talk about finding "the one". I don't believe in the one. I believe there are many, many people we can be happy with. I think women scare themselves thinking there is only one man out there for them. Not true.

Do something you've never done before. Or go to a BBW dance or weekend. Find a new hobby. Do something to get you out of the box you have created for yourself. Shake up your life.

One thing I know for sure "If you always give what you've always given - you will always get what you've always gotten."


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 27, 2007)

WOW WOW WOW Sandie... BOY did you say a lot to me in this sentence.... I'm stunned. This makes SO much sense to me!!! Wow... talk about eye opening.... omg... 

Thank you.... thank you so very much. 




Sandie_Zitkus said:


> One thing I know for sure *"If you always give what you've always given - you will always get what you've always gotten." *


----------



## SilkyAngela (Sep 27, 2007)

Violet, I'm not sure I could say much to help you process this, but I totally understand where you're coming from. 

After 2 failed marriages and a handful of terrible relationships, I found myself at a similar crossroad where I knew I had to do something different if there was ever going to be joy in my life. I even went so far as to throw a party for my friends and family to formally announce I was off the dating market permanently and I was very happy being single. (I was sick to death of set ups and everyone feeling sorry for me because I was living alone or every time I did date someone I felt so pressured to be on a freakin time line of how things were supposed to happen.) 

Taking control of being single was so much better than being in shitty relationships or trying to settle for Mr.Right Now out of fear I would always be alone and I was finally doing things I wanted to. I cashed out some investments, travelled, took up painting and drawing, went hiking and camping with my friends, etc. After a while, I met Tony. He and I became close friends without expectations and everything fell right into place...we'll be married 4 years this October.

I am so thankful I took those several years to just be me and learned to love the freedom that came with being single and letting go of where I thought I should be in life at my age. All that did was keep me fearful that I was going to miss out and I would cling to every glimmer of hope of the fairy tale that came my way. I honestly believe embracing singleness has made me a better partner and kept me thankful for what we have together instead of comparing it to the Cinderella story and always finding lack.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 27, 2007)

You know Angela I totally get what you're saying. I've pretty much accepted being single... I think that is one of the reasons that I am so very generally happy with my life. I have good friends, good family, a great job, a great house... all-in-all my life isn't terrible. I just want to expand it a bit, so-to-speak. But I agree... accepting one's life is a big key.

Thanks!




SilkyAngela said:


> Violet, I'm not sure I could say much to help you process this, but I totally understand where you're coming from.
> 
> After 2 failed marriages and a handful of terrible relationships, I found myself at a similar crossroad where I knew I had to do something different if there was ever going to be joy in my life. I even went so far as to throw a party for my friends and family to formally announce I was off the dating market permanently and I was very happy being single. (I was sick to death of set ups and everyone feeling sorry for me because I was living alone or every time I did date someone I felt so pressured to be on a freakin time line of how things were supposed to happen.)
> 
> ...


----------



## Canonista (Sep 28, 2007)

Realistically, seeing the pattern of women I've dated and married in my life, I think I'd be better off just not dating.

After getting out of a really, really bad marriage I had to look at my on dating habits and I realized that I sought women who were very bad for me. I seem to go for unhealthy people for the excitement and when I meet a "normal" person I get bored. 

I love the company of women and I do get lonely for touch, but frankly solitude is less painful than many of the relationships I've had. Because unhealthy women are attracted to me and I to them, I have to say that I am not good relationship material.


----------



## SilkyAngela (Sep 28, 2007)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> You know Angela I totally get what you're saying. I've pretty much accepted being single... I think that is one of the reasons that I am so very generally happy with my life. I have good friends, good family, a great job, a great house... all-in-all my life isn't terrible. I just want to expand it a bit, so-to-speak. But I agree... accepting one's life is a big key.
> 
> Thanks!



So you feel ripe and ready and you are generally happy with your life. You are much farther ahead in the game than you think. You want relationship but don't need it to make you complete. When it does happen, at least the way I see it, you've got a far better chance for longevity and genuine happiness with a partner because of where you are in your life....as crazy as that may sound. 

If there is such a thing as "relationship material," from what you've shared I think you have everything you need to qualify.


----------



## GoddessNoir (Sep 28, 2007)

Okay, I haven't read everyone's post because frankly I'm too lazy.

Violet, 

#1 You're wonderful, you know this.

You say that you have been working for the same employer for 23 years so, this leads me to believe that you have a routine that you stick to. (as we all do) What you do for fun? Do you do the same things all of the time? What clubs or social events do you belong to? What do you do on a typical Saturday or Friday evening?

I think that every intelligent, self assured woman has this problem just becuase we reach a point in our lives where we know who we are, know what we want and know what we aren't going to stand for. This means a few things:

a) Our dating/relationship choices become slimmer because we now have to find men that fit into this new category

b) Yes, we become a bit intimidating because we are women who can hold our own, don't really NEED someone but would still like someone with whom to share our lives. 

So, now arises the problem, where does one find the kind of guy that likes the kind of women we are?

Just as we are normally home, or at a friend's home, or taking care of parents or at the same restaurant or place we go to with our friends, that guy is doing the same thing in his life so, the idea is to try to be where HE is so that the possibility of the two of you meeting increases. Try a new restaurant, by yourself. Take a walk in a new neighborhood or, go to a different park than the one to which you normally go. Go to an outdoor concert or movie or take a walking tour, anything that you don't normally do. Go to a documentary film, independent theater, go to the museum, (some museums in bigger cities do a weekend bash) go bike riding, borrow a friend's dog, just do ONE thing different. Also, and this advice come from a older woman to me: Look PAST the "type" of guy you normally date. I've always had this weakness for very dark, big bellied brothers who dress really well and just have this "thing" forlack of a better word. My current beau doesn't fit into that category, he and I met one day when I decided to have dinner completely on my own, (he was doing the same). He isn't like any man I've ever dated in the fat that he doesn't look like any of them and doesn't act like any of them (thank goodness). Had I not done somethng different, I would have never met him.

This is more advie she gave me: look past someone's look or dress. She tells me, "when I met my husband, he had the thickest most horrible glasses, no one wanted him but, he was such a good man. I dated him, then when he was comfortable enough, I took him glasses shopping, helped him pick out nier clothes, suggested a better hair cut. I didn't change him but, I helped hem see what I see. Stop looking for the flash and glamour and look at the heart. You want someone that has that fashion sense and compliments you, a look can be suggested, then bought." I know it seems silly and I would have never thought of myself as being superficial in that way but, it did have a ring of truth to it.

I am in know way implying that you are superficial or anything but, I hope you see the point at which I am driving.

I hope this doesn't sound preachy.


----------



## ripley (Sep 28, 2007)

Wait...is anyone?


----------



## SocialbFly (Sep 28, 2007)

Vi, i think the truth of the matter remains, we may be strong independent women, but no man makes us, he just adds to us, i actually think someone said that, forgive me whoever said this, that i dont credit you with it...i have been the one in my family, the nurse, the caretaker...i was with my dad when he died, i was with my mom when she died...i was the one that got them the death they wanted....

so, that being said, i find myself asking the same questions...who will be there for me...if...when....

i always thought i would get married, i always thought i would have some type of a family...and here i am at 48, kinda surprised at times that it never happened for me, lots of close calls, but not one time that came through...

self doubt often comes up then...the "am i relationship material" question...well, you dont know if you dont try, and every relationship, even the most benign of friendships is a risk...moving is a risk, walking to work is a risk, but what would your life be without them?? safe, but not necessarily fullfilling...

i have said it before, and i say it again (boring huh) i choose my life...i choose to live it as out there as possible...i choose to take risks (dont know me? i just moved to australia..how risky is that?) i choose...but that is the word of the day too...I CHOOSE...the choice is mine, the choice remains mine...at the end of the day, at the end of my life, my actions reflect only on me, and i choose to live fearlessly....

(at least today)


----------



## LillyBBBW (Sep 28, 2007)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> I just thought of another issue that I struggle with.... control. I tend to want to control every situation... again, probably as a protection measure. As a result... the bulldozer comes out in me, so that I can keep control of the situation. In my brain, I keep thinking it is so that can "get what I want", but, am I sabotaging myself instead???
> 
> Hmmmmm.....
> 
> I gotta tell you all... I'm learning a lot here..... about relationships, about men... and mostly about me.



I'm drawn to others who are like myself. The issue with this is that you have two independent people who like doing things the way they do things and compromise is not an option. Unfortunately relationship takes compromise and there is usually some dealbreaker issue there that neither of us are willing to compromise on. 

Commitment phobia plays a big role in that it's the fear of losing a part of yourself to another person and I definitely fall under that category. It's possible I am not relationship material but I guess that depends on wether you see the glass half full or half empty. I'd love to find a partner but can I make room? I don't want to lose too much of myself and it's not fair for me to expect someone to do something that I am unwilling to do in return. 

Somehow I cling to the idea that when the right person comes along compromise will be minimal and somewhat easy because it is the right person, the relationship is worth it and he'll feel the same. We all have our thresholds, how far we're willing to move the bar is the question and I usually judge that on a person by person basis. I've always looked at is as if I've just not found the right person yet but some might say I sabotage my own success. I don't know if I want that kind of success.


----------



## Spanky (Sep 28, 2007)

I wasn't going to do this, but because it is you, Violet, I will. 

I have a couple of beautiful spruces outside my office on my property that were planted close together and a third one by itself. Probably, when they were young, they all had that wonderful symmetrical conical shape that pines attain. Perfectly round, strong young branches on all sides. As the two closer trees grew bigger and closer together, where one had branches, the other didn't send a branch or the branch got less nutrients and sunlight and fell off or broke off. As I see the two close trees today, they are almost interdependent and act as one tree. The one fills in the spaces where the other one can't. If one ever dies or is cut down, the other will stand, continue to live and survive, but will have a side that is almost barren of branches strong enough to survive the cold north wind. The tree will look nothiing like a conical pine tree. 

Meanwhile, the third tree stands alone, and as it has grown (it is younger that the other two), it has maintained a beautiful conical shape and fully symmetrical with strong branches all around it. If I was to try and plant another same fully conical tree next to it, the results could be a real problem. The branches from each tree wouldn't give to the new close branches from the other. They wouldn't ever fit right. 

To bring it back to reality, you are stronger in many ways being single, more independent, and possibly more focused in what you want or demand in life and in a partner. You have to fight and try harder to fit those strong branches in when starting or maintaining a relationship. But the other person has to realize that they have to do the same. If one stays rigid, it can't work with good results. Bend those branches whenever possible and look for the other person willing to bend their branches. That is when you'll get it all to fit and you may discover that it is as strong or stronger than the two having grown together.


----------



## ScreamingChicken (Sep 28, 2007)

I'll share the situations of myself and my three siblings. It'll show you how diffferent things are four people who were raised in the same household , under the same set of values, using the same two people as a template for what a marriage/ relationship is and should be.



*Myself, age 33*. Didn't have my first GF until I was 18 and a freshman in college. Met my wife when I was 20 and we got married in June '95 when we were 21. Stacy is a strong willed woman and she matches well with my laid back demeanor. She runs the finances, I handle the domestic duties. I honestly don't know what adulthood is like without marriage being factored in to the equation. We have 2 kids, Wes who is 9 and Katie who is a few weeks shy of 6.

*Sister , Twin #1, age 28*. Didn't actively date in HS. Met her husband while in the Army and they got married when she 18. They have been happily married for 9 years. She is tough as nails but she "softens" quite a bit when it comes to hubby. Her need to be a control freak almost disappears when it involves him. They have no children with no desire for any. A good choice since neither one has the temperment for kids.

*Sister, Twin #2, age 29* Got married at age 19. Another independent woman but she got married to the first guy that swept her off her feet ( he was 11 years her senior). Honestly , think it was a case of monkey see, monkey do since her twin just got married when he proposed. They divorced after 5 years. Very volatile marriage. He was a lazy SOB with a temper and she was immature. They have a 4 year old son. She is is currently in a relationship with a nice guy (but he reminds me WAY too much of the ex). She did have a self destructive period of alchohol, prescription, and sex with anything breathing before meeting him. Honestly, I think she doesn't have it in her to check her ego a bit to be in a LTR. She likes to argue too much and tends to be a control freak.

*Brother, age 29* He has screwed anything that has let him since about age 11. Diagnosed a sex addict as a teen. Was engaged to a girl but was cheating on her with their roommate. He married his ex wife in 2000 at age 22 ( YES, we marry young in our family  ). His ex is a very strong willed person and they had a very volatile marriage that fell apart last year. They have a 3 year old daughter and an 18 month old son. A few months after throwing her out he moved another woman in to his house and they are expecting a son in November. My brother doesn't know how to manage and maintain a relationship. He has said that he hates to be alone. The woman that he is with is the opposite of his ex. He is the dominant one and reminds everyone of that.


I'm not sure if I answered your question, Violet. If anything, it just illustrates how wildy different humans can be when it comes to love and relationships.


----------



## moore2me (Sep 28, 2007)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> We were discussing in the Clubhouse a topic that is rather interesting. As a woman, it seems I've gone from relationship to relationship and I just can't seem to find "the one". It made me think a lot recently... "am I meant to really have a long-term relationship?" Is everyone truly relationship material?
> 
> I am an exceptionally independent woman. My point here is, I've always been the strong one...the one everyone else leans on.
> 
> ...



Vi, Excuse my editing of your post. I just wanted to address a few of your comments, so I cut & pasted. First,


 *Beware of the Sleeping Beauty/Cinderella Syndrome -* women of our age group we brought up to believe that one day "our prince will come" and we would be happy ever after. This old style Disney ending was never true and will never be true. Don't expect it. If you are lucky, you may find love, but, most likely you will not find someone to meet all our preconceived expectations.


 *Compromise.*
And you must stop using your strong points as reasons why your relationships fail. I have learned over 27 years of marriage that my husband has strong points and weak points (just like me). When I was a starry eyed "child" 27 years ago, I would have probably rejected him if I knew what his real faults were (and he would probably say the same thing too). Good thing we didn't know better. For example.

He is not the strong one. I am. I am willful. He is a follower. I am highly educated. He barely graduated from high school. (To his credit, he was trying to avoid being drafted to go to the Vietnam war at the time. It got his draft delayed 2 years. He was drafted, but, he survived.)



*Opposites can attract and thrive.*
He is a conservative, I am a liberal. He was a mama's boy. He doesn't like to travel. I loved to travel. I love opera, rock, & musicals - he hates all three. I love to read. He barely reads a newspaper. I love to try new food, he won't eat anything his mom didn't make for him when he was a kid. He talks the entire time the TV is on and I love peace & quiet. He loves to work outside, I hate to go outside. You could say we are not compatible - but, strangely enough, our marriage works. I guess opposites do attract. Oil & vinegar.


*In a good relationship each person has to compromise over 75% of their wants - that way neither of you wins - but you win as a team. *
I can best compare this to a team of horses. Both of them pull the load together. The horses don't have to be the same, they just have to be trained to work together and cooperate without biting, kicking, or acting crazy. Working together, they are a thing of beauty.



Violet_Beauregard said:


> Now, at nearly 44 years old, I'm falling into the position of caretaker to my aging parents. They're still quite independent themselves, but I see them relying on me more and more for things. I have two older brothers who can barely take care of themselves, let alone my parents. I have a 13-year old nephew who lives with his mother...in a rather less than desireable home situation, so I find myself taking care of him as well. My point here is, I've always been the strong one...the one everyone else leans on. Now, I have no problem with the role. I help everyone I can, to the best of my ability. I get great satisfaction in helping others. BUT......



And, finally you really must work on this situation. As your parents get older, and as your caretaking tasks grow more burdensome, you will need your brothers help. Start NOW, training & teaching them what they will need to do. Do not let them slack off on this! Be firm. Get this stuff in writing too. Have a family meeting. Plan out power of attorneys, get you guys on parents HIPPA forms, etc., make sure brothers understand they need to step up to the plate.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 28, 2007)

Maybe you need to change what you look for?? I don't know... I think my problem is what I do after I find one. I look for the wrong type too... sometimes. (very long story) But maybe you need to adjust that part... what you're looking for.




Canonista said:


> Realistically, seeing the pattern of women I've dated and married in my life, I think I'd be better off just not dating.
> 
> After getting out of a really, really bad marriage I had to look at my on dating habits and *I realized that I sought women who were very bad for me.* I seem to go for unhealthy people for the excitement and when I meet a "normal" person I get bored.
> 
> I love the company of women and I do get lonely for touch, but frankly solitude is less painful than many of the relationships I've had. Because unhealthy women are attracted to me and I to them, I have to say that I am not good relationship material.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 28, 2007)

Thank you... I appreciate that. 

I am TRYING to figure this all out. This is so bloody complicated though. WHY does it seem so easy for everyone else?? I know it's probably not, but it sure looks that way. 






SilkyAngela said:


> So you feel ripe and ready and you are generally happy with your life. You are much farther ahead in the game than you think. You want relationship but don't need it to make you complete. When it does happen, at least the way I see it, you've got a far better chance for longevity and genuine happiness with a partner because of where you are in your life....as crazy as that may sound.
> 
> If there is such a thing as "relationship material," from what you've shared I think you have everything you need to qualify.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 28, 2007)

Not preachy at all... and thank you. I've thought about what you said... and I've already adjusted what I'd really look for in a guy. Years ago, I had a very severe "check list" for what I wanted. Well, as the years have passed...time and desperation, almost, have adjusted that check list considerably. That and wisdom, I think. So, thanks for the advice.... it's great advice!






GoddessNoir said:


> Okay, I haven't read everyone's post because frankly I'm too lazy.
> 
> Violet,
> 
> ...


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 28, 2007)

LOL... I'm beginning to wonder!! 



ripley said:


> Wait...is anyone?


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 28, 2007)

Dianna you're a doll!!

You are quite right... no man "makes" us... he adds to us. I just said relationships can be so complicated... there's so much involved... and even at 44 years old, I feel like I don't know a thing! You'd think I'd have learned a thing or two... BUT, judging on my most recent relationship... I'd say, NO, I haven't learned a thing. 

I am now though. Believe me.

You're right too... life is all about choices... Maybe I need to "choose" to open myself up... maybe I need to "choose" to not sabotage myself. I don't know. Definite food for thought.

I do choose to thank you... and thank you for being my friend... 




SocialbFly said:


> Vi, i think the truth of the matter remains, we may be strong independent women, but no man makes us, he just adds to us, i actually think someone said that, forgive me whoever said this, that i dont credit you with it...i have been the one in my family, the nurse, the caretaker...i was with my dad when he died, i was with my mom when she died...i was the one that got them the death they wanted....
> 
> so, that being said, i find myself asking the same questions...who will be there for me...if...when....
> 
> ...


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 28, 2007)

I think Lilly that I do that too.... look for people who are like me. Then you do have two strong people who, at times, may be butting heads because of those personalities.

I don't think I'm commitment phobic though. I think in my case I'm just SO anxious to have that relationship that I can't control myself... I want to control the situation and make it work out "my way" and I get out of hand. There I go with the control thing again. 

You're right too.... are we willing to give up that independence and really have what we supposedly want?? Tough question. Hmmmmm





LillyBBBW said:


> I'm drawn to others who are like myself. The issue with this is that you have two independent people who like doing things the way they do things and compromise is not an option. Unfortunately relationship takes compromise and there is usually some dealbreaker issue there that neither of us are willing to compromise on.
> 
> Commitment phobia plays a big role in that it's the fear of losing a part of yourself to another person and I definitely fall under that category. It's possible I am not relationship material but I guess that depends on wether you see the glass half full or half empty. I'd love to find a partner but can I make room? I don't want to lose too much of myself and it's not fair for me to expect someone to do something that I am unwilling to do in return.
> 
> Somehow I cling to the idea that when the right person comes along compromise will be minimal and somewhat easy because it is the right person, the relationship is worth it and he'll feel the same. We all have our thresholds, how far we're willing to move the bar is the question and I usually judge that on a person by person basis. I've always looked at is as if I've just not found the right person yet but some might say I sabotage my own success. I don't know if I want that kind of success.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 28, 2007)

Spanky thank you so much for sharing that story. It's a great story. And thank you for the kind words at the end. I hope I can bend my branches and find someone willing to bend theirs too. That's what this is all about... finding out who I am... what I want... and how to put the two together. 

Thank you again....




Spanky said:


> I wasn't going to do this, but because it is you, Violet, I will.
> 
> I have a couple of beautiful spruces outside my office on my property that were planted close together and a third one by itself. Probably, when they were young, they all had that wonderful symmetrical conical shape that pines attain. Perfectly round, strong young branches on all sides. As the two closer trees grew bigger and closer together, where one had branches, the other didn't send a branch or the branch got less nutrients and sunlight and fell off or broke off. As I see the two close trees today, they are almost interdependent and act as one tree. The one fills in the spaces where the other one can't. If one ever dies or is cut down, the other will stand, continue to live and survive, but will have a side that is almost barren of branches strong enough to survive the cold north wind. The tree will look nothiing like a conical pine tree.
> 
> ...


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 28, 2007)

Wow... VERY interesting... such different people, but almost similar situations in that you all married young. But each situation is different. Hmmmm..... Similar to our family... 4 kids... all quite different lives.... 

Thanks for sharing!!!





ScreamingChicken said:


> I'll share the situations of myself and my three siblings. It'll show you how diffferent things are four people who were raised in the same household , under the same set of values, using the same two people as a template for what a marriage/ relationship is and should be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 28, 2007)

Thanks Moore.... I'm sure trying to get this all figured out.... You make some great points... things I need to really think about and add into my equations I think. 

Thank you... very much!!





moore2me said:


> Vi, Excuse my editing of your post. I just wanted to address a few of your comments, so I cut & pasted. First,
> 
> 
> *Beware of the Sleeping Beauty/Cinderella Syndrome -* women of our age group we brought up to believe that one day "our prince will come" and we would be happy ever after. This old style Disney ending was never true and will never be true. Don't expect it. If you are lucky, you may find love, but, most likely you will not find someone to meet all our preconceived expectations.
> ...


----------



## Tad (Sep 28, 2007)

moore2me said:


> He is not the strong one. I am. I am willful. He is a follower. I am highly educated. He barely graduated from high school. (To his credit, he was trying to avoid being drafted to go to the Vietnam war at the time. It got his draft delayed 2 years. He was drafted, but, he survived.)



You know, this reminds me of something....

I'm an electrical engineer, and have spent my career in high-tech companies. There are always a scattering of female engineers in these places. There are not that many women who go into engineering, and they are uniformly not only technically bright but also very driven people--otherwise they would have gone into something people expect women to go into, rather than one of the last male dominated professions. So these are women who know their minds, are driven to succeed on their own terms, and so on.

Of those of these women who were married when I knew them, I think at least half were married to guys without a post-secondary degree. Construction workers, guys off the production floor, a bush pilot....a broad variety of jobs, and they were generally great guys, successful in their own way, but they were not academically inclined, they were more manual than cerebral, generally more laid back and relaxed. In other words, quite different people.

(Yes, some of those women I've known were also married to other engineers or professionals, but from the limited sample that I've know, fewer than the category above).

I wonder if the biggest barrier to more such relationships is the cultural expectation that women "marry up?" That is, marry someone taller, stronger, older, wealthier, more established, and so on. I wonder how many very successful women would be quite happy married to a plumber, but would never give him a chance because he didn't seem worthy of her, that he would not be seen as a catch for her? 

Just Friday afternoon speculation, not trying to say that anyone in particular does this or doesn't do that, just wondering.

Regards;

-Ed


----------



## Risible (Sep 28, 2007)

Indenpendence and a strong will aren't barriers to your finding Mr. Right. Many men find those qualities attractive. And I definitely think you're relationship material.

From reading your blog, my best guess is that you want and/or expect too much too soon. A person needs room and time to decide whether this is the person that they want to spend the rest of their life with. It doesn't happen in a date or two, or over a weekend. In my dating days, when someone I just met pushed too hard to get to know me, or to tie me down whether it was for another date, a vacation together or a monogamous relationship, that was a huge red flag. I could sense their anxiety, and I didn't want to be responsible for someone so emotionally needy.

I've told you my own story before; basically I got married at 40. Talk about independent. So I was astonished then, as I'm astonished now, looking back, at how easy it was for me to compromise on just about everything for the sake of my marriage. I see that you're eager to meet Mr. Right and to get married; I don't think your independence is going to be an obstacle to that.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 28, 2007)

Thank you Ris... very much. AND, what I'm finding out is... you are right on the money. I want it so much, that I'm getting out of hand, and pushing too hard to make it happen. I need to really force myself to just let it unfold, instead of trying to control it.

At least that seems to be what I'm finding out about myself.

Thank you... very much.....





Risible said:


> Indenpendence and a strong will aren't barriers to your finding Mr. Right. Many men find those qualities attractive. And I definitely think you're relationship material.
> 
> From reading your blog, my best guess is that you want and/or expect too much too soon. A person needs room and time to decide whether this is the person that they want to spend the rest of their life with. It doesn't happen in a date or two, or over a weekend. In my dating days, when someone I just met pushed too hard to get to know me, or to tie me down whether it was for another date, a vacation together or a monogamous relationship, that was a huge red flag. I could sense their anxiety, and I didn't want to be responsible for someone so emotionally needy.
> 
> I've told you my own story before; basically I got married at 40. Talk about independent. So I was astonished then, as I'm astonished now, looking back, at how easy it was for me to compromise on just about everything for the sake of my marriage. I see that you're eager to meet Mr. Right and to get married; I don't think your independence is going to be an obstacle to that.


----------



## Fuzzy (Sep 28, 2007)

I'm absolutely a needy relationship type person. I hates to be alone. Independence? HA!


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 28, 2007)

But Fuzz, that's why we love you!! 




Fuzzy said:


> I'm absolutely a needy relationship type person. I hates to be alone. Independence? HA!


----------



## SocialbFly (Sep 29, 2007)

Vi, all through our lives our life is about choice...or so i believe...i know it is also about trust, one of my absolute issues...so much so that if anyone hurts me, i absolutely cut them out of my life with surgical precision...

does that make me happier? maybe safer, but sometimes i see that the response this person had to me, or to a situation was maybe flawed or my response to them was flawed...and yeah, sometimes i get to say i was right....but trust is a funny thing isnt it...so many ways to hurt it...for me trust is the issue...trusting myself into someone elses hands and hearts...and i am so not good at it....

expectations too...those will get ya...the "we are so perfect together" doesnt last long if they dont want to problem solve with you...what good is a relationship if it cant stand the bumps???

so, you find the one you can trust, and can work out the bumps with...are they perfect...i am sure not...but are you (or am i?)certainly not...you just hope, pray, fly by the seat of your pants, and see how it goes...expectations only add heat to the fire, lol....and that fire sometimes burns us up, lol...all we can do is try eh...

(thank you for your friendship too!!!!)

great thread and i have thought so much about this one...


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 29, 2007)

Dianna you're so right about the trust issues. I really understand that. I have a big problem trusting people with MY life and MY safety. I know that *I* am going to take care of me, but is someone else? And this guy... could I get him to trust me again? Trust that I'm not going to make the same mistake twice? Trust me enough to give me a second chance? It would be nice, but I doubt I will. And I guess I don't blame him for that. I'd be afraid of that too, if I were in his place. 

You're right too, about finding someone to weather the rough times. God knows life isn't all moonlight and roses. Life is hills and valleys...and those valleys can be pretty low. If a couple can survive those.... then they're celebrating their 50th... like my parents are next July. Right now... I'd be happy to celebrate a year! LOL

Ahhh... expectations.... that seems to be my problem.... I want too much, too soon. THAT is what I need to work on. Well... life is about learning... right??


----------



## SocialbFly (Sep 30, 2007)

you are so right Vi, i think part of the problem with the internet is a false sense of security and a false sense of knowing the person, i think sometimes the mistake we make is thinking that when someone tells us something on line that it is both truthful and forthcoming...the person only tells you what they want you to know, or what they think you want to know, the story, or so i believe is rarely complete...and i think it makes us more vulneable to believing there is more there...so many people i know have had that same problem...instant intimacy...so how do we bridge the gap?? i truly believe the only way to do that is to meet in person....then make them say the same things to your face that they said on line...i wish i could say i had more faith in on line relationships, i havent had the best of success with them...i have met...without a doubt, some of the favorite women in my life...but men, i am so not lucky with...and i think the instant intimacy is part of the problem...we head in to a relationship so quickly and none of the niceties when men or women tried really hard to make you (if that is even a good choice in words) maybe win you is a better choice..ok, they dont seem to try so hard to win you in real life...it seems like we bypass courtship and head right into deep relationship...is that maybe the needed part we skip, where the contact we desire is no longer intimidating, but welcome...if the man or woman want to be with you, contact will not be an issue...i can use myself as an example, if there is someone i am interested in, i let them know where i am, and when they might hear from me again...that is the respect...and i expect it in return...that is their respect for me....

is this making sense, or do i need a nap, lol...


----------



## LillyBBBW (Sep 30, 2007)

SocialbFly said:


> you are so right Vi, i think part of the problem with the internet is a false sense of security and a false sense of knowing the person, i think sometimes the mistake we make is thinking that when someone tells us something on line that it is both truthful and forthcoming...the person only tells you what they want you to know, or what they think you want to know, the story, or so i believe is rarely complete...and i think it makes us more vulneable to believing there is more there...so many people i know have had that same problem...instant intimacy...so how do we bridge the gap?? i truly believe the only way to do that is to meet in person....then make them say the same things to your face that they said on line...i wish i could say i had more faith in on line relationships, i havent had the best of success with them...i have met...without a doubt, some of the favorite women in my life...but men, i am so not lucky with...and i think the instant intimacy is part of the problem...we head in to a relationship so quickly and none of the niceties when men or women tried really hard to make you (if that is even a good choice in words) maybe win you is a better choice..ok, they dont seem to try so hard to win you in real life...it seems like we bypass courtship and head right into deep relationship...is that maybe the needed part we skip, where the contact we desire is no longer intimidating, but welcome...if the man or woman want to be with you, contact will not be an issue...i can use myself as an example, if there is someone i am interested in, i let them know where i am, and when they might hear from me again...that is the respect...and i expect it in return...that is their respect for me....
> 
> is this making sense, or do i need a nap, lol...



That is one of the issues I have with online relationships. Even if a person is being sincere, you just don't know anybody till you meet them in person. The online chemistry you share on the internet may not translate into real life. Also I've discovered at times that people I didn't like at all via the internet became the dearest of friends once we met in real life so it's hard to judge relationships with just words on a sreen. Webcams and telephone calls are nice but they are not as good as being in someone's presence and seeing how they treat you, how they treat others and how they treat themselves. It's a great start though so I'm not pooping on internet dating.

In any event I'm an emotional ninny when it comes to stuff like that. I get that fluttery girlcrush on someone and then discover I've read more into their flirtations than what was actually there. This has also jaded me a great deal towards meeting people on the internet. You're thinking :wubu: and he's thinking :smitten: or :blink: or vice versa.


----------



## Grandi Floras (Sep 30, 2007)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> We were discussing in the Clubhouse a topic that is rather interesting. As a woman, it seems I've gone from relationship to relationship and I just can't seem to find "the one". It made me think a lot recently... "am I meant to really have a long-term relationship?" Is everyone truly relationship material?
> 
> I am an exceptionally independent woman. I've lived on my own since I was 21 years old. I've worked for my employer for 23 years, and as a result, I have never asked my parents for help financially...I've always supported myself. I've always been the one that people come to for help. Now, at nearly 44 years old, I'm falling into the position of caretaker to my aging parents. They're still quite independent themselves, but I see them relying on me more and more for things. I have two older brothers who can barely take care of themselves, let alone my parents. I have a 13-year old nephew who lives with his mother...in a rather less than desireable home situation, so I find myself taking care of him as well. My point here is, I've always been the strong one...the one everyone else leans on. Now, I have no problem with the role. I help everyone I can, to the best of my ability. I get great satisfaction in helping others. BUT......
> 
> ...



I know just exactly what you mean there Violet.

I have been the sole provider of my family now for almost 22 years, I have always been the one that everyone comes too for help, advice or just about anything. 

I sometimes wish that there would be someone that I could depend on for these things for me, but I don't see that happening any day soon as I am so used to doing everything myself that I am just not so sure that it would feel normal too me.

Heck, you might be right, I like other's like me, just may not be relationship material in the first place and we may just be deluding ourselves in thinking that what others have is accessable to us too.

I would love to have a man in my life, but he would have to understand that at 55 years old, I am very independant and have been for years and he could not just come in and start taking over..... I don't think that I could let someone do that, heck, this is more than likely just why I remain alone..... 

*I just may not be relationship material in the first place and I should just remain as I am.*


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 30, 2007)

To me, I don't think it's WHERE or HOW I meet the guys.... it's how I handle myself AFTER I've met them... either chatting, phone... or in person. The issues I've had with guys I met online, could have happened with someone I met locally. I think the internet is a very practical way to meet people. I think most women can sniff out the losers and weed them out right off the bat. I think I can, at least. THOUGH, that's not to say that I can't make a mistake. Nobody's perfect, right?





LillyBBBW said:


> That is one of the issues I have with online relationships. Even if a person is being sincere, you just don't know anybody till you meet them in person. The online chemistry you share on the internet may not translate into real life. Also I've discovered at times that people I didn't like at all via the internet became the dearest of friends once we met in real life so it's hard to judge relationships with just words on a sreen. Webcams and telephone calls are nice but they are not as good as being in someone's presence and seeing how they treat you, how they treat others and how they treat themselves. It's a great start though so I'm not pooping on internet dating.
> 
> In any event I'm an emotional ninny when it comes to stuff like that. I get that fluttery girlcrush on someone and then discover I've read more into their flirtations than what was actually there. This has also jaded me a great deal towards meeting people on the internet. You're thinking :wubu: and he's thinking :smitten: or :blink: or vice versa.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Sep 30, 2007)

See... this is exactly my question. You've put a lot of thought into it... and you have decided for yourself that you aren't relationship material. Now, lot of people would argue with you and say "oh you're such a nice person, you really deserve to be happy with someone." Well, yeah... you are a nice person, and yeah, you do deserve happiness with someone. BUT, no one knows YOU but YOU... and likewise no one knows ME but ME. So WE should be the ones who would know better than anyone whether we'd be relationship material, right??




Grandi Floras said:


> I know just exactly what you mean there Violet.
> 
> I have been the sole provider of my family now for almost 22 years, I have always been the one that everyone comes too for help, advice or just about anything.
> 
> ...


----------



## imfree (Sep 30, 2007)

Great thread, Violet and guys! I am really enjoying what I'm reading.


----------



## Grandi Floras (Oct 1, 2007)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> See... this is exactly my question. You've put a lot of thought into it... and you have decided for yourself that you aren't relationship material. Now, lot of people would argue with you and say "oh you're such a nice person, you really deserve to be happy with someone." Well, yeah... you are a nice person, and yeah, you do deserve happiness with someone. BUT, no one knows YOU but YOU... and likewise no one knows ME but ME. So WE should be the ones who would know better than anyone whether we'd be relationship material, right??



You are so right Violet, only we can make the assessment whether a relationship is meant for us or our lifestyle. There are many well meaning people out there that try and tell you that very thing, but you know as well as I do that not everyone is cut out to be relationship material and we are perfectly happy just the way that we are, considering the choices that we have had to make in our lifetimes. For many of us, singularity suits us just fine. There is no drama, no stress and no rejection to have to deal with that comes along with being with another person, who needs that.....

If I indeed where to meet a man that was at all interested in me, he would have too really be something to make me think otherwise and he would have too give me a good reason not to stay on my own....


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Oct 1, 2007)

Well, I'm pretty flexible.... so if someone came along, I'd bend a lot. THOUGH, it happened recently and I managed to screw it up, but it wasn't because I wasn't willing or flexible. 

LOL


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Oct 1, 2007)

Let me ask another question... and we'll continue this thread... it's very interesting....


Who has met someone really spectacular.... and then screwed it up?
Did you do something really stupid.... cheat, push too hard, played TOO hard to get...anything....

Was it over for good... or did it work out in the end??


----------



## SocialbFly (Oct 2, 2007)

I have, ask me about it sometime Vi...been there, done that, own the tshirt and as usual it only came to XL


----------



## LillyBBBW (Oct 2, 2007)

I've screwed up, twice, and it was the same mistake. I met a wonderful guy, I was infatuated, so was he, things were going along great and then I had a conversation with someone who said, "Oh HIM. Bah, he's a playa, bla bla bla, he slept on my couch, bla bla bla, he does drugs, bla bla bla, he's a double dater who sets girls up to fight on purpose, bla bla bla." As soon as somebody said something bad I was trapped between a rock and a hard place. I didn't feel like I could really confront the guy because the person who started the gossip did so in confidence and he's going to want to know who said what and if even if he says it's not true who do you believe? I hate 'he said she said' stuff. I said nothing but it made me feel like a cat in a room full of rocking chairs with him. Every little thing that was even mildly askew looked like, "DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER!" Some time long after I had completely killed the relationship I found out that either the story was grossly exaggerated or flat out untrue and I ruined a good thing with my neurotic suspicions. Happened to me twice. :doh: 

But then again, I've been saved by the whistle a few times when somebody tipped me off to a guy who was a predator. *shrugs* The moral of the story: consider the source.





Violet_Beauregard said:


> Let me ask another question... and we'll continue this thread... it's very interesting....
> 
> 
> Who has met someone really spectacular.... and then screwed it up?
> ...


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Oct 2, 2007)

Oh yeah, I've done that too.... I've listened TOO much to everyone else, instead of listening to my own heart/mind/instincts. My instincts are pretty good.... except that little bit of doubt just creeps in, and in my case... grew like Jack's beanstalk on Miracle Gro!! 

I gotta learn to just listen to myself. Period. 




LillyBBBW said:


> I've screwed up, twice, and it was the same mistake. I met a wonderful guy, I was infatuated, so was he, things were going along great and then I had a conversation with someone who said, "Oh HIM. Bah, he's a playa, bla bla bla, he slept on my couch, bla bla bla, he does drugs, bla bla bla, he's a double dater who sets girls up to fight on purpose, bla bla bla." As soon as somebody said something bad I was trapped between a rock and a hard place. I didn't feel like I could really confront the guy because the person who started the gossip did so in confidence and he's going to want to know who said what and if even if he says it's not true who do you believe? I hate 'he said she said' stuff. I said nothing but it made me feel like a cat in a room full of rocking chairs with him. Every little thing that was even mildly askew looked like, "DANGER WILL ROBINSON, DANGER!" Some time long after I had completely killed the relationship I found out that either the story was grossly exaggerated or flat out untrue and I ruined a good thing with my neurotic suspicions. Happened to me twice. :doh:
> 
> But then again, I've been saved by the whistle a few times when somebody tipped me off to a guy who was a predator. *shrugs* The moral of the story: consider the source.


----------



## lemmink (Oct 2, 2007)

I don't think being a strong independent woman has EVER stopped any woman from getting a date. (Maybe not every guy she wants, but plenty of them...) There's even a book out about how many men WANT an independent woman. 

Maybe try going for a different kind of guy?


----------



## Grandi Floras (Oct 2, 2007)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> Let me ask another question... and we'll continue this thread... it's very interesting....
> 
> 
> Who has met someone really spectacular.... and then screwed it up?
> ...



Unfortunately, I have never had the opportunity to find the perfect one. I do know that they are out there and it would be wonderful too actually meet one. 

As I said before, at this point in my life, after being on my own for so many years, I would be afraid of messing things up. It has been so long since I have been interested in or had anyone interested in me that I am not too sure whether I just might not mess it up for being so afraid of messing it up, you know what I mean? Heck, it has been so long since I have even went out on a date, I wouldn't know how to act or what too do anyway......

Independent women are not accepted as much as you might think, not many men around want a woman that can take charge and not depend souly on them. If there are any men out there that prefer an independant woman, they sure don't make themselves known anymore that most FA's do....:batting:


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Oct 2, 2007)

I thought about a different type of guy... I don't think I really have a "type"..... they sort of seek me out...which is fine. I just gotta get my crap together. 




lemmink said:


> I don't think being a strong independent woman has EVER stopped any woman from getting a date. (Maybe not every guy she wants, but plenty of them...) There's even a book out about how many men WANT an independent woman.
> 
> Maybe try going for a different kind of guy?


----------



## Stoner (Oct 3, 2007)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> Let me ask another question... and we'll continue this thread... it's very interesting....
> 
> Who has met someone really spectacular.... and then screwed it up?
> Did you do something really stupid.... cheat, push too hard, played TOO hard to get...anything....
> ...



Im not sure if the question is meant only for the women or for the men as well, but anyway, yes, I have screwed it up, twice, maybe thrice Im not sure about the third time.

The first time was with a co-worker, and that kind of relationship isnt a good idea to start with. Dating co-workers has always been a big no-no to me, and it was the first and only time I broke that rule. She was still in the process of separating from her (ex-)partner, and somehow I felt that I was taking advantage of her vulnerable emotional state. She kept saying I wasnt, but I couldnt help myself from feeling that way. I guess things werent just supposed to work anyway.

The second time didnt work out due to distance issues. We met in Portugal but she eventually had to return to Germany. I had my chance, and I didnt take it. I even had a second chance, which doesnt happen often, and I still managed to screw it up again. And the fact that I know it would have been so worth to take that final step, just makes it even harder to accept. It was surely my loss, and a great one indeed.

The third time happened very recently, and was also related to distance. We never got into a serious relationship, though. It was more like a wonderful, yet rather strange friendship. Not of the fuck-buddies kind, just strange. While I think it could have been worth to venture into something more serious, I foresaw the distance would soon become an issue, and the wounds from the second time were and still are too fresh, so I guess I was trying to save myself from another certain heart ache. Three in a row would have been overkill.

Apart from some things I may have said that were surely better left unsaid, I dont regret anything about these relationships, even if it didnt work out in the end. I guess what doesnt kill us, only makes us stronger.

-Nuno


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Oct 3, 2007)

I don't think my issues had anything to do with distance... thank goodness. 

I'm so sorry about your situations though... I hope something works out for you eventually!! 




Stoner said:


> Im not sure if the question is meant only for the women or for the men as well, but anyway, yes, I have screwed it up, twice, maybe thrice Im not sure about the third time.
> 
> The first time was with a co-worker, and that kind of relationship isnt a good idea to start with. Dating co-workers has always been a big no-no to me, and it was the first and only time I broke that rule. She was still in the process of separating from her (ex-)partner, and somehow I felt that I was taking advantage of her vulnerable emotional state. She kept saying I wasnt, but I couldnt help myself from feeling that way. I guess things werent just supposed to work anyway.
> 
> ...


----------



## bmann0413 (Oct 3, 2007)

I honestly don't know... That is a good question I need to ask myself... I've never been in a relationship...


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 3, 2007)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> I am an exceptionally independent woman. I've lived on my own since I was 21 years old. I've worked for my employer for 23 years, and as a result, I have never asked my parents for help financially...I've always supported myself. I've always been the one that people come to for help. Now, at nearly 44 years old, I'm falling into the position of caretaker to my aging parents. They're still quite independent themselves, but I see them relying on me more and more for things. I have two older brothers who can barely take care of themselves, let alone my parents. I have a 13-year old nephew who lives with his mother...in a rather less than desirable home situation, so I find myself taking care of him as well. *My point here is, I've always been the strong one...the one everyone else leans on. * Now, I have no problem with the role. I help everyone I can, to the best of my ability. I get great satisfaction in helping others. BUT......



Sweetie...you just spoke my life to some degree. I was married for 14 years.... to a man child. Now I'm the single mother of three children and I receive very little help from the ex. He loves his children but most everything is up to me. I won't say it would have been better to not have married or have been in my past relationships. I will just say that you seem very well put together and strong- and for that I hold you most fortunate to have such inner strength. That alone makes you a gem. There is nothing wrong with you- you just don't live your life looking to be taken care of like some people. :bow: 


Violet_Beauregard said:


> When is it going to be MY turn?? When is someone going to be there for me? Hence the discussion of a relationship. In most relationships, each partner is there to help and support the other. WELL, I haven't had that privilege, as yet, and I wonder if I ever will. Does my independence and strength keep me from finding the perfect relationship for me?? Do men shy away from independent women? * I've been told by friends, family and co-workers that I'm pushy, bossy, brassy, mouthy and intimidating. Well, yeah, I probably am...when the situation warrants it, but I don't think it's a regular 24/7 thing.* When I know what I want, I go after it. BUT, is that pushing men out of my life? OR, am I just not relationship material?



You seem very considerate and nice here on the forums....I know that doesn't mean that I "know you" but then again, I have met some real assholes on the internet. If you were really "that bad" I can't help but think you couldn't be as nice on the net as you are because so many people here seem to display their "true selves" while online. 
Those people saying that you're bossy- do you just work with them? Do they even actually know you? 
One more question, I hope I'm not mixed up but didn't you post before about dating the same guy from work for many years? Perhaps dumping him will free you up for better things? (Please forgive me if I have overstepped my bounds or am confused- just going by what I think you might have posted before)


Btw, this seems like it might be a great thread so thanks for making it


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Oct 3, 2007)

Well thank you for the wonderful things you said about me.... you're so sweet!! 

You're right... I don't live my life looking to be taken care of, and I'm proud of that. I'd just like to share my life... and all its favors and flaws, with someone who cares about me. 

Actually the co-workers who say I'm bossy ARE people who know me pretty well, BUT, it's on the job that I'm bossy... but then I have to be. I'm the only woman there.. I HAVE to be assertive to a certain extent... otherwise I get ignored. (I become the "dumb secretary"... or at least that's what *I* think they're thinking...LOL). 

And yes I did post about dating a guy from work for many years, but that's been LONG over... it's been more than 5 years since we were involved... actually we are better friends now than we were when we were seeing each other. He's one of the few people I trust to tell me the truth about things... LOL.

Sooo, long story short, with this current relationship that I screwed up, I've been able to really look at me... at my own behavior, and see what I need to change about myself... about how I handle things. 

This thread has been very theraputic for me. I've enjoyed reading everyone's stories and experiences, and I've really gotten a lot of food for thought out of it. It's been amazing for me.

Thanks for the thoughts/ideas... I really do appreciate them!!





Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Sweetie...you just spoke my life to some degree. I was married for 14 years.... to a man child. Now I'm the single mother of three children and I receive very little help from the ex. He loves his children but most everything is up to me. I won't say it would have been better to not have married or have been in my past relationships. I will just say that you seem very well put together and strong- and for that I hold you most fortunate to have such inner strength. That alone makes you a gem. There is nothing wrong with you- you just don't live your life looking to be taken care of like some people. :bow:
> 
> 
> You seem very considerate and nice here on the forums....I know that doesn't mean that I "know you" but then again, I have met some real assholes on the internet. If you were really "that bad" I can't help but think you couldn't be as nice on the net as you are because so many people here seem to display their "true selves" while online.
> ...


----------



## imfree (Oct 3, 2007)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> ...............snipped..........
> You seem very considerate and nice here on the forums....I know that doesn't mean that I "know you" but then again, I have met some real assholes on the internet. If you were really "that bad" I can't help but think you couldn't be as nice on the net as you are because so many people here seem to display their "true selves" while online.
> .............snipped..........................................................................
> Btw, this seems like it might be a great thread so thanks for making it



Like Green Eyed Fairy, I believe in you, Violet, and regard you most highly.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Oct 3, 2007)

Thanks Edgar, I appreciate that.....

 




imfree said:


> Like Green Eyed Fairy, I believe in you, Violet, and regard you most highly.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 3, 2007)

Just wanted to post a picture of my friend Amy (and myself  )
She is the Service Manager of an automotive repair shop and oversees about 7 mechanics. When she was first hired, I saw her have to bust some heads and stand her ground ferociously to finally gain the authority due to her. She is one of the strongest people I have ever met- very independent, intelligent, tenacious, seemingly fearless, upstanding and bold. 
Three years ago, one of the customers asked her out. Some of the people that knew him casually told her not to accept. She made her own decision and married him three months after that first date. That was four years ago. Her husband is one of the best fathers to her son that I have ever seen. She takes care of her husband...and he takes great care of her, too. It looks to be a very giving relationship- and I would tell you I envy her that but she has had a long haul and she deserves all the good things that come to her.
I think the same will happen to you Violet- time and chance  

View attachment Amy at work.JPG


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 3, 2007)

SilkyAngela said:


> Violet, I'm not sure I could say much to help you process this, but I totally understand where you're coming from.
> 
> After 2 failed marriages and a handful of terrible relationships, I found myself at a similar crossroad where I knew I had to do something different if there was ever going to be joy in my life. I even went so far as to throw a party for my friends and family to formally announce I was off the dating market permanently and I was very happy being single. (I was sick to death of set ups and everyone feeling sorry for me because I was living alone or every time I did date someone I felt so pressured to be on a freakin time line of how things were supposed to happen.)
> 
> ...




Thanks for this Angela  :bow:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 3, 2007)

ScreamingChicken said:


> I'll share the situations of myself and my three siblings. It'll show you how diffferent things are four people who were raised in the same household , under the same set of values, using the same two people as a template for what a marriage/ relationship is and should be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am like you in that way, Chicken. I have spent most of my adult life in marriage. Sometimes it makes me wonder what in hell is wrong with me. 
I was married at age 19- to my first "serious" boyfriend. I was married for the second time at age 22. That marriage lasted 14 years and gave me three wonderful children. I saw him as my "soulmate" and at one point in our relationship, I couldn't imagine a life without him. Funny how things turn out.... 
Sometimes...I envy those that didn't marry too young like I did - that must be another example of "the grass is always greener" though I wouldn't change anything simply because I don't regret my children or some of the loving times that I did have


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Oct 3, 2007)

Well... there's hope for me yet!! LOL 

Thanks GEF!!!!! I love the story... and what a great picture!!!




Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Just wanted to post a picture of my friend Amy (and myself  )
> She is the Service Manager of an automotive repair shop and oversees about 7 mechanics. When she was first hired, I saw her have to bust some heads and stand her ground ferociously to finally gain the authority due to her. She is one of the strongest people I have ever met- very independent, intelligent, tenacious, seemingly fearless, upstanding and bold.
> Three years ago, one of the customers asked her out. Some of the people that knew him casually told her not to accept. She made her own decision and married him three months after that first date. That was four years ago. Her husband is one of the best fathers to her son that I have ever seen. She takes care of her husband...and he takes great care of her, too. It looks to be a very giving relationship- and I would tell you I envy her that but she has had a long haul and she deserves all the good things that come to her.
> I think the same will happen to you Violet- time and chance


----------



## LillyBBBW (Oct 4, 2007)

Vi, the people closest to me call me bossy and sometimes it makes me wonder if I come across as a ball buster to people. On closer inspection I have to consider the source when listening to what other people say about me. People with whom you *have* to be assertive, such as at work or with manipulative family members, will always label you as being hard core. I don't think there is a one of us who has had to stand firm on something who hasn't has somebody call them bitchy or ball busting. Getting a raw deal at a clothing store and having to speak with the manager, obviously from the viewpoint of the sales associate you are a nasty old meanie when in truth you are merely trying to negotiate what is fair. On top of that, women are often viewed through a more narrow scope when it comes to things like that where as for a guy it is expected and worthy of little to no notice. Just by existing in the real world and behaving appropriately people will say that about you because they can't have their way with you. I try not to read too much into those things said by some of those closest to me because around them if I weren't that way I would be chained up in their basement folding their laundry.

Most of my friends know me a bit differently because it is not necessary for me to be that way with them. There is a mutual respect there where I don't have to put up my dukes all the time, I can relax and be myself. Not sure if this is similar to you in any way but I just wanted to put in a good word for realism against the din of self serving observations that my paint you in an undeserved light. Having to be assertive under reasonable circumstances is not the same as pulling a Charles Bronson and kicking in doors on people in your spare time.

Also there is something to be said for being with a mate where you have similar goals and the small stuff is negotiable. Maybe the bottom line is that the person you were with wasn't a perfect match. Didn't mean there was anything wrong with either of you or that you've done something 'wrong' per se. Things took their natural course because on certain issues you were incompatible and a tug of war was truly unavoidable.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Oct 4, 2007)

I definitely agree with being myself around my friends/family. Really, even my co-workers, especially since I'm there so much... I think they know me best. I just get bolder then, I suppose.

As far as me and the guy... no...I definitely screwed it up. Without a doubt in my mind. I'd give anything for a "do-over", but it's not up to me. 

I totally get your point though... you're right... some people just aren't a good match and that's why it doesn't work out. But in this case, I screwed up. LOL






LillyBBBW said:


> ...snip.....
> *Most of my friends know me a bit differently because it is not necessary for me to be that way with them. There is a mutual respect there where I don't have to put up my dukes all the time, I can relax and be myself.* Not sure if this is similar to you in any way but I just wanted to put in a good word for realism against the din of self serving observations that my paint you in an undeserved light. Having to be assertive under reasonable circumstances is not the same as pulling a Charles Bronson and kicking in doors on people in your spare time.
> 
> Also there is something to be said for being with a mate where you have similar goals and the small stuff is negotiable. Maybe the bottom line is that the person you were with wasn't a perfect match. *Didn't mean there was anything wrong with either of you or that you've done something 'wrong' per se. Things took their natural course because on certain issues you were incompatible and a tug of war was truly unavoidable*.


----------



## ClashCityRocker (Oct 4, 2007)

in all honesty(or at least in my opinion): no.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Oct 4, 2007)

Bingo. I gotta agree... some people aren't... for various reasons, but they just aren't.

Sad.




ClashCityRocker said:


> in all honesty(or at least in my opinion): no.


----------



## bluewine (Oct 4, 2007)

I am trying to get out of a 6 week relationship with a cute sexy blonde (33)because she is pushy, bossy, brassy, mouthy and intimidating. It's something I refuse to tolerate. But it could be me, 53 years old (trying to be hip).I have been divorced for 10 years. I really like oming home to my empty condo and coming and going as I please.


----------



## bluewine (Oct 4, 2007)

I really don't think I am relationship material. I am great date material, weekend stuff, romance, travel, concerts plays, parties, ect. The commitment stuff and all the phone calls and daily updates is not for me.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Oct 4, 2007)

If she isn't what you want, then you need to tell her. Those aren't necessarily bad qualities.... they are just NOT what YOU want.

AND, I don't think it's that you're not relationship material... you just don't want a relationship If that's the case... state that, up front. For your sake as much as hers.






bluewine said:


> I am trying to get out of a 6 week relationship with a cute sexy blonde (33)because she is pushy, bossy, brassy, mouthy and intimidating. It's something I refuse to tolerate. But it could be me, 53 years old (trying to be hip).I have been divorced for 10 years. I really like oming home to my empty condo and coming and going as I please.





bluewine said:


> I really don't think I am relationship material. I am great date material, weekend stuff, romance, travel, concerts plays, parties, ect. The commitment stuff and all the phone calls and daily updates is not for me.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Oct 5, 2007)

I had a interesting discussion today, with a friend of mine today, about whether people are relationship material. She is married for the third time. She feels everyone is relationship material, but your behavior may not reflect that until you meet the right person. She said it's all in the chemistry. As I said, it is her third marriage, and she said she knew within DAYS that this guy was right for her. She said things were entirely different when she met him, and she felt she realized what had been missing prior.

So... in a nutshell, perhaps it all has to do with chemistry... between the couple. 

Putting that thought to my situation, I don't think the chemistry was a problem... it was definitely me. I still screwed up....

BUT, her ideas are food for thought generally....


----------



## Sandie S-R (Oct 5, 2007)

lemmink said:


> I don't think being a strong independent woman has EVER stopped any woman from getting a date. (Maybe not every guy she wants, but plenty of them...) There's even a book out about how many men WANT an independent woman. .....(snip)....





Grandi Floras said:


> .....(snip)....Independent women are not accepted as much as you might think, not many men around want a woman that can take charge and not depend souly on them. If there are any men out there that prefer an independant woman, they sure don't make themselves known anymore that most FA's do....:batting:



I completely disagree with GF here. I do not for a minute think that most men want a woman who is incapable of caring for herself. OK, men you can jump in here. Do you really want a woman who is completely dependent on you for everything? (Of course not.) 

I agree with Lemmink in that most men really do love independent women. Independence suggests that you are capable of making decisions and caring for yourself without input from anyone else. Independence doesn't mean that you want to be alone, it just means that you are mature, capable and self sufficient. And that is definitely not a bad thing. In fact, I think it is a preferrable quality in either sex. 

However, I'm not sure that independence is the real issue here. I think it is more about confidence (or lack of). Many people mask their insecurities (or lack of confidence) with a strong outer demeanor that is easily mistaken for independence. 

If I got this correct by what you said Violet, you pushed too hard for a commitment too quickly, which is what led to the break up with your last relationship. Think of it this way; if in fact you were independent and confident in who you are, there would be no need to "push" the relationship. The fact that you did, tells me that you are likely not as confident in yourself (where love and relationships are concerned), than you may want to admit. However, lack of confidence is easily fixable, and kind of goes hand in hand with self worth and acceptance. It is definitley something worth working on. And, the more confident you get, the more you will realize that you are wonderful, and deserve a loving relationship with someone...and you won't need to push to make that happen. You'll just take the time to get to know the guy and let nature take it's course.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard (Oct 5, 2007)

You know something Sandie.... you make an excellent point... I never thought about it from that aspect. You're right... I'm very confident in the majority of my life, but when it comes to love and relationships, I'm definitely not. Hmmmm... that's interesting..... 

Thank you! I'll have to think about that some more and see what I can do to turn that around..... 






Sandie S-R said:


> ....snipped.....
> 
> However, I'm not sure that independence is the real issue here. I think it is more about confidence (or lack of). Many people mask their insecurities (or lack of confidence) with a strong outer demeanor that is easily mistaken for independence.
> 
> If I got this correct by what you said Violet, you pushed too hard for a commitment too quickly, which is what led to the break up with your last relationship. Think of it this way; if in fact you were independent and confident in who you are, there would be no need to "push" the relationship. *The fact that you did, tells me that you are likely not as confident in yourself (where love and relationships are concerned), than you may want to admit. * However, lack of confidence is easily fixable, and kind of goes hand in hand with self worth and acceptance. It is definitley something worth working on. And, the more confident you get, the more you will realize that you are wonderful, and deserve a loving relationship with someone...and you won't need to push to make that happen. You'll just take the time to get to know the guy and let nature take it's course.


----------



## GrowingBoy (Oct 11, 2007)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> Now, at nearly 44 years old, I'm falling into the position of caretaker to my aging parents... My point here is, I've always been the strong one...the one everyone else leans on. Now, I have no problem with the role. I help everyone I can, to the best of my ability. I get great satisfaction in helping others. BUT...... When is it going to be MY turn??



I've heard it said that the most important thing about a spouse is whether you can depend on them. If that's true, then based on your description of yourself, you have everything you need to be a wonderful partner to someone. 

One of the things that distinguishes a relationship from the "one" is a spark. I've thought about how to define that, and I think it is really about enabling dreams. For some, those dreams are about who they want to become; for others they might relate to the ability to be themselves in some important way -- perhaps playing out fantasies of one kind or the other. But the end result is that we can be who we are, and sometimes more than that -- with someone else. 

As to when it will be your turn, I hope that turn comes as soon as you are ready. It can be difficult taking care of aging parents, particularly as we enter our 40s. In some cases, the caretaking can make it difficult to accomplish other important goals, such as having children. But in the end, we need to make the choices that we are comfortable with, that are consistent with our values. 

So I think this really isn't about whether you have what it takes -- you do --but rather your own needs and priorities.


----------

