# Take The Compliment



## Johnny718Bravo (Sep 18, 2008)

I like big girls. Scratch that, I LOVE them  But there's just one small problem. Some just don't know how to take a compliment. The other day, I saw a beautiful big girl on my lunch break. She saw me looking at her. We made eye contact. But when I smiled at her, she gave me the dirtiest look, like I just insulted a member of her family. 

This isn't the first time this has happened. So I came to two possible conclusions: 

1. I'm just not her type, hey we all have different tastes.
2. She can't take the compliment.

I'm thinking it's conclusion #2. Too often, ignorant people make fun of big girls. "How dare they not be as thin as the skeletons on TV." So I'm thinking she took my smile as an insult. I wish I could have told her that this was not the case.

One of my friends told me once that if you see a beautiful woman, tell her that she's beautiful. Because you may never see her again. If I had done that, worst that could have happened was she could have ignored me. But the best case scenario is I could have struck a conversation and made a new friend. 

So fellas, if you see a beautiful big girl, tell her she's beautiful. And ladies, if you see someone smiling at you, take the compliment.

It won't cost you a thing


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## Buffie (Sep 18, 2008)

Aww, bummer! Maybe she suddenly got dirt in her eye? I can't imagine a girl returning your smile with a scowl. Sometimes, people mean to make one face but they don't realize how it actually looks and they don't mean to express what actually comes across to the other person. Hopefully it wasn't intentional on her part. Good advice from you and your friend, though. There are some girls who don't know how or when to say "thanks".

Seems to me most of the ladies here accept a compliment with sincerity and grace. I've learned a lot from many of them about how to appreciate when someone takes the time to extend praise. Believe it or not, a girl could just be really shy or socially anxious. :blush:


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## olwen (Sep 18, 2008)

She could have just been in a bad mood.

I see where you're coming from Johnny, but part of me wants to say: hold up, so now I gotta be grateful whenever a guy wants to give me unwanted attention? Seriously, sometimes I'm just in a bad mood. And sometimes if I respond even if it's to say a simple thank you and keep walking, they take it as an opportunity to follow me and try to talk to me when I'm just not in the mood. It's just annoying and yeah, it's a little suspicious. How do I know this guy trying to follow me isn't gonna try to mug me or molest me or something? 

I don't mean to be a downer, or say that you are dangerous - I'm sure you aren't, but I've had the experience of having guys curse me out if I didn't respond to their catcalls the way they thought I should. So it's taught me to just not respond to them most of the time. You see, it just puts me on the defensive no matter how nicely they say it. I'm gonna know that sex is the first and maybe only thing on their minds even if that isn't their intention and that just puts me off. 

That being said, it is nice to hear compliments _in the right situations_. Just telling a random girl you see any ole where: "God, you're so beautiful" isn't the best way to meet girls. It just comes off as skeevy. And we're likely to think: 'potential rapist?' before we think 'harmless sweetie.'


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## mossystate (Sep 19, 2008)

I would not jump to the conclusion that she " can't take a compliment ". In fact, saying so is a bit arrogant. 

Olwen is right. Women, in general, have a different set of experiences. Maybe this woman knew you were looking at her and she wasn't in the mood to be stared at. I wasn't there, so I don't know how it played out.

I am remembering all the times men have said " oh..come on...smile ", when I was simply going about my day, not thinking I had to walk around with a Stepford smirk on my mug. This woman might have been deep in thought. Maybe it really was not about you. And maybe it was not about her having some ' issue ' with ' compliments '.


There are many conclusions you probably should consider ( you decided it could not possibly be the first reason...why? ). Do you ever give a friendly smile to a man and he gives you a ' dirty ' look? Do you demand these men take your friendliness, as it doesn't cost anything? Do you believe women are to always be flattered when a man wants to dish it out? You think it is tough to be denied. Just think about the other person..and do it with eyes other than your own. 

Woman do have the right to take what we want. I would really think about how _you_are thinking about this kind of thing. Yeah, this bugs me...can you tell?


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## No-No-Badkitty (Sep 19, 2008)

Johnny718Bravo said:


> 1. I'm just not her type, hey we all have different tastes.
> 2. She can't take the compliment.
> )




I don't know if this is what was going through this particular girl's head...but maybe it will provide a little insite.
I've been fat all my life. Never thin, never even "normal" I was always the fattest kid in my class (now days I see lots of fat kids where were they then?). Any how...I can remember the absolute brutal abuse I took as a kid. And I do mean brutal. I learned at a very young age if someone was "smiling" at me something nasty was going to happen. Highschool was even worse than middle school (and that was pretty bad). It wasn't until I got to college that things got a little better.

Any how. It made me gun shy. No, scratch that. It made me freaking terrified. As a teenager I avoided any and all eye contact, I stared at my desk in front of me, and rarely did I ever speak to another person let alone look at them.
Getting up in front of people to speak was a nightmare that resulted in me puking my guts out at the thought. I never went to dances, parties, or any kind of social get-together.
I am not going to bore you with the long details but looking back on myself is all I can say is that I honestly don't know how I survived it. But I did.

Coming out of that made me more than just shy of men. I never ever ever saw men or women who looked at me as a potential relationship (friend or otherwise). I mean after having years and years of being harrassed and made fun of, you really start to believe some of the shit that is said about you. It hurts and no amount of others telling you "it's just bs" helps. You have to get to that stage on your own...and realize that you don't own the world jack crap so F'em.
Now-days I look at men in the eye and if they smile at me I don't cower and hell I even smile back and I will even dance with strangers. But it took me years and years to get to that stage and over come what I went through as a kid and teen. The truth is lots of women (or men) never do over come it. I still have my days but I an in no way shape or form (except that I am fat) the same person I was then (thank God).
I guess what I am trying to say is this. You have no idea what kind of abuse this particular woman has taken from the world, men or women and she might simply be on the defense. She may be quick to think the worst simply because nothing nice has ever been said or done for her.
Just a thought


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## Dr. Feelgood (Sep 19, 2008)

mossystate said:


> Do you ever give a friendly smile to a man and he gives you a ' dirty ' look? Do you demand these men take your friendliness, as it doesn't cost anything?



Dunno how it is in your neighborhood, but out here in God's country, if a man smiles at a man he gets his ass whupped. This ain't _Brokeback Mountain_.


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## StellaMaris (Sep 19, 2008)

No-No-Badkitty said:


> I don't know if this is what was going through this particular girl's head...but maybe it will provide a little insite.
> I've been fat all my life. Never thin, never even "normal" I was always the fattest kid in my class (now days I see lots of fat kids where were they then?). Any how...I can remember the absolute brutal abuse I took as a kid. And I do mean brutal. I learned at a very young age if someone was "smiling" at me something nasty was going to happen. Highschool was even worse than middle school (and that was pretty bad). It wasn't until I got to college that things got a little better.
> 
> Any how. It made me gun shy. No, scratch that. It made me freaking terrified. As a teenager I avoided any and all eye contact, I stared at my desk in front of me, and rarely did I ever speak to another person let alone look at them.
> ...



I think Badkitty nearly said it all. I feel the same and made similar experiences, not that bad, but bad ones as well. For a long long time it wouldn't come into my mind, not by any chance, that somebody would look at me because he likes me or thinks I am beautiful! Only the last years I starting to realize but it is still very hard. I know now theoretically that there are men out there who like fat girls but not really practically. I am still wondering why somebody looked at me and to be honest most of the time I would think negative. 

I have to "judge" it with every look. Is ist just a look or even a smile? Does he laugh with his friends after that look (even it is not related to me I will take it as it would be!). Is the smile shy or a bit ... to bright? Is he making fun of me? You think you gave her just a smile.. you see what could be in her mind! Sometimes I react confused but 5mins later I am thinking "omg, why couldn't you just smile back?"

Totally understand that it is hard for you. But the thought of telling or showing a woman that she is beautiful is wonderful. Stick to that, show them! Try a nice, maybe shy smile (even you might not be shy). I hope some will respond positive. I would I hope.

And by the way, even if somebody is not my type I wouldn't give them a dirty look. I guess she felt affected. You are too cute to look angry at you anyway


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## Johnny718Bravo (Sep 20, 2008)

I'm very impressed with the responses I've seen. What I've been reading is very true. Everyone has different opinions and stories when dealing with something like this, especially when it comes to experiences from school. I can personally tell you how it feels to be bullied and made fun of.

Everyone's posts were interesting. As for mossy and feelgood, their posts were...well...umm...yeah. (LOL)

I hope to see more posts in this thread. Bravo out!


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## mossystate (Sep 20, 2008)

Eh. I knew it would not be something you wanted to hear. Was obvious from your dismissing any other possible reason why someone might respond the way this woman responded. Take the advice, Bravo. It won't cost you a thing.


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 20, 2008)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Dunno how it is in your neighborhood, but out here in God's country, if a man smiles at a man he gets his ass whupped. This ain't _Brokeback Mountain_.



That's sickening.



olwen said:


> I see where you're coming from Johnny, but part of me wants to say: hold up, so now I gotta be grateful whenever a guy wants to give me unwanted attention? Seriously, sometimes I'm just in a bad mood. And sometimes if I respond even if it's to say a simple thank you and keep walking, they take it as an opportunity to follow me and try to talk to me when I'm just not in the mood. It's just annoying and yeah, it's a little suspicious. How do I know this guy trying to follow me isn't gonna try to mug me or molest me or something?



You sound a little paranoid. I don't know how you went from a guy giving a girl a simple smile to thinking that you're going to get raped. Let's calm down.


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## SilkyAngela (Sep 20, 2008)

Sounds like she's nearsighted and forgot her glasses....was maybe squinting to see if she could recognize who was smiling at her.

Just sayin, I look pretty mad and harsh when I forget my glasses and try to see far away. I look even worse when I recognize the face and try to recall a name.


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## SpecialK (Sep 20, 2008)

Coming from a woman who does find it hard to take a compliment, it could be that. I'm working on just saying "Thank you." when complimented rather than rationalizing or dismissing why the compliment was made in the first place.

I guess in this particular situation, I'd be curious as to what kind of smile you gave this woman. If she interpreted it as a "How YOU doin?" smile, then that could explain the dirty look. If she took it for teasing, then that also could explain the look. Perhaps if you'd had a chance to say "Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I think you're really pretty." her response might have been different, recognizing that your compliment was sincere and not meant to embarrass or tease or lead to something more.

Just my $0.02.


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## olwen (Sep 20, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> That's sickening.
> 
> 
> 
> You sound a little paranoid. I don't know how you went from a guy giving a girl a simple smile to thinking that you're going to get raped. Let's calm down.



Umm, yeah....so, I've been raped before. Paranoia? I don't think so. Also I live in New York City where creepy guys are in abundance. That's just my experience tho. Dunno about you.

Also, if I say "Thank you, have a good day," that means just that. It doesn't mean "Oh thank you for the compliment I'm soooo grateful to have received because I'm a fat girl who's never ever gotten comments from men. Please follow me and talk to me incessantly till I give you my number." Paaleeeze. That has happened to me several times. ::shrugs:: So, forgive me if I don't bow down at the feet of every Tom, Dick, and Harry that tries to talk to me. 

Edit: I just want to say, I understand that some fat girls aren't used to receiving compliments and may assume the person is being nasty and in that case, sure, it might do to try and not automatically assume that. If that is the case. 

I'm not saying that every guy who smiles at a fat girl is evil either. What I'm saying is that it's egotistical and patronizing on the part of the person giving the compliment to assume this will be the case with every fat women he/she smiles at - who doesn't smile back. Not to mention, it would also be playing into a sterotype about fat women that's just that - a stereotype. Sometimes it actually is unwanted attention for whatever reason. Why it's unwanted shouldn't have to warrant an explanation. 

Bottom line: No one can assume what anyone else's sexual history is based on appearances alone.


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 20, 2008)

olwen said:


> Bottom line: No one can assume what anyone else's sexual history is based on appearances alone.



Who said anything about assuming sexual history based on appearances?

I thought this thread was about giving a smile/compliment to a stranger.

Somehow we're into rape and all sorts of crazy things.

If a stranger smiles at me, I smile back. If a guy gives me a compliment, I say thanks. 

I don't see what the big deal is.


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## olwen (Sep 20, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> Who said anything about assuming sexual history based on appearances?
> 
> I thought this thread was about giving a smile/compliment to a stranger.
> 
> ...



...I thought I explained it pretty well....if you don't understand where I'm coming from then I don't know what else to tell you....I will once again conclude all my previous statements in this thread with "...but that's just been my experiences."


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 20, 2008)

olwen said:


> ...I thought I explained it pretty well....if you don't understand where I'm coming from then I don't know what else to tell you....I will once again conclude all my previous statements in this thread with "...but that's just been my experiences."



I just don't understand how rape or whatever even got brought up in this. The OP said he smiled at the girl..not that he followed her or that he begged her for her number or anything like that. Smiling at someone or giving a small compliment is different from stalking someone down. It's a little ridiculous to worry that every single guy who looks your way wants to rape you.


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## mossystate (Sep 20, 2008)

If a person gets their boxers in a wad when any person...any person...does not return a smile, then I know they are talking about common courtesy. If it all only ever boils down to attraction, then, fuck that. If it all only ever boils down to an analyzing the reasons why a _fat_ woman would refuse every look thrown her, well, fuck that as well. 

My Dad used to give what I called the ' farmer's wave ' when he was driving. If someone he knew was coming towards our car, he would raise his index and middle fingers just baaaarely off the top of the steering wheel. I do that in public...when I feel like it....when I pass people. Now, some folks get more, but, I...meeeeeee...decides. 

Not every situation is about fat. Not every situtation is about the other person. How difficult is it to understand that. I think the grey area is sometimes a really great place to pitch a tent and think about....stuff. The OP was not just talking about a smile that was not returned. THAT made this about more than perceived rudeness.


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## olwen (Sep 20, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> I just don't understand how rape or whatever even got brought up in this. The OP said he smiled at the girl..not that he followed her or that he begged her for her number or anything like that. Smiling at someone or giving a small compliment is different from stalking someone down. It's a little ridiculous to worry that every single guy who looks your way wants to rape you.



...sigh...look, I'll try to explain it again...

Let's do an example: A guy is in a bookstore and he sees a cute girl and he smiles at her. She looks him up and down, scowls, and then looks away. She's obviously not interested. So he realizes she's not interested and goes about his business. 

If the girl in question were skinny would he see her response as normal behavior or would he say to her "Can't you just take the compliment?"

So let's say the girl is fat and her response is exactly the same, and his response is "Can't you just take the compliment?" 



So, this isn't just about a simple smile and a hello.

The OP is venting his frustration about fat women who don't accept compliments or smiles when he tries to give them. I'm saying it's presumptuous to assume that kind of attention is wanted on the part of the fat woman. 

In other words, just because a guy decides to smile at a fat woman doesn't mean she wants him to smile at her. I don't have to say thank you to a smile I didn't feel like getting in the first place. I don't have to say thank you if I'm not interested or in a bad mood. If I were skinny so much onus wouldn't be put on me to "be grateful" for a compliment. Tell me how that's not playing into a stereotype about the sexual history of a fat women? Tell me how that's not an assumption about how many people a fat woman has flirted with or slept with, or how much sexual attention she's used to getting? 

What I've mentioned before are the kinds of things that have happened to me and I've been trying to demonstrate that not every fat woman will just be grateful for the attention and why. 

If you don't understand that, there really is no other way to explain it.


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## BigBeautifulMe (Sep 20, 2008)

olwen said:


> ...sigh...look, I'll try to explain it again...
> 
> Let's do an example: A guy is in a bookstore and he sees a cute girl and he smiles at her. She looks him up and down, scowls, and then looks away. She's obviously not interested. So he realizes she's not interested and goes about his business.
> 
> ...


A+, AMEN, and EXACTLY. That is exactly what I could not formulate into words. Thank you, Olwen.

ETA: It's exactly like those guys that expect gratitude when they tell you you're pretty. I say thank you, because I appreciate the compliment, but then they for some reason think I must need CONVINCING that they actually think that. I think they expect "OMG. Really?! You think my belly is sexy?! Nooooooo, that can't be true!!!" :doh:

I want to just say "You and every other FA in the world," but don't want to be rude. Sometimes they just won't stop pushing it, though!

ETA (again): This is not to say I don't appreciate compliments!  I do. I just don't need additional _convincing_ that I'm beautiful. I already know I am.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Sep 20, 2008)

You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Olwen again...

so I'll jsut quote Alexander Pope: "What oft was thought, but ne'er so well expressed."


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## superodalisque (Sep 20, 2008)

i agree. most big girls can't take a compliment well. i took kind of an oath that i should make more of an effort to tell people what i like about them instead of just thinking it. when i did i noticed that a lot of times when i compliment another big girl she says"oh no" and then disqualifies it. sometimes they just seem to think your pulling their leg or trying to make brownie points for some reason. 

it never hurts to smile back at people. but we tend to be soooo negative sometimes. it comes from having a lot of bad experiences i think. maybe we should just take things like smiles and compliments at face value and stop trying to analyze so much. then when something nice and honest comes along we won't be suspicious and spoil it.

PS: is repeating that to herself right now like a mantra


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## BigBeautifulMe (Sep 20, 2008)

Have no fear, Doc. I got her!


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## olwen (Sep 20, 2008)

Thank you. I'm not the only one.


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 20, 2008)

olwen said:


> ...sigh...look, I'll try to explain it again...
> 
> Let's do an example: A guy is in a bookstore and he sees a cute girl and he smiles at her. She looks him up and down, scowls, and then looks away. She's obviously not interested. So he realizes she's not interested and goes about his business.
> 
> ...



I guess you're too much of a cynic for me to get it. I can't really fathom why the occasional smile would irritate someone. So you just go around scowling at everyone you see? That's cool I guess.


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## olwen (Sep 20, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> I guess you're too much of a cynic for me to get it. I can't really fathom why the occasional smile would irritate someone. So you just go around scowling at everyone you see? That's cool I guess.



No I don't go around scowling at everyone....are you being sarcastic?

....have you ever had someone smile at you or say hello and then when you smile back or say hello just to be polite, they come over and talk to you when, you really just don't want to talk to them simply because you don't feel like being bothered? What's so hard to understand about this?


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 20, 2008)

olwen said:


> No I don't go around scowling at everyone....are you being sarcastic?
> 
> ....have you ever had someone smile at you or say hello and then when you smile back or say hello just to be polite, they come over and talk to you when, you really just don't want to talk to them simply because you don't feel like being bothered? What's so hard to understand about this?



The OP said he smiled at a girl, and she gave him a dirty look, so I was just commenting on the idea of someone being irritated by a simple hello or smile. Which I don't get it. Like, how much does it take to smile back? Even when people come over to talk to me and I don't really want to talk to them I don't act like a huge bitch. Nor do I assume they're planning on raping me. What's so hard to understand about that?


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## mossystate (Sep 20, 2008)

repeats the mantra....

* I am a fat woman..if I do not smile brightly back at you, I might end being dissected on a message board....but...I am not to do the same thing...that would be ungracious, and just prove what a huge chip I have on my shoulders...and it ain't chocolate *

....phew

I will say that I think many fat women don't dare think they have the right to their feelings. We are either being told we don't matter, so we hide, or, we are told we are to accept anything and everything, if the person giving it is a fat admirer. Fat women owe people what they want to owe people...ya know...like regular human beings. Be upset over the lack of manners These Days....fine. Just stop telling me what I am________ ( fill in zee blank ) if I don't feel like engaging with a person who is staring at me.

AGAIN, if you have no issue with a person you are not attracted to not smiling back at you, then let us fat women have the same luxury. I am ramming my head against a brick wall....I know.


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 20, 2008)

I don't know if you're referring to me or not mossystate, but I'm not saying that just fat girls should smile back and whatever..I'm saying EVERYONE should..like, common decency.


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## BigBeautifulMe (Sep 20, 2008)

If that were what the OP was after, thatgirl, it would be an entirely different conversation. If you don't get it, you don't get it.


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## mossystate (Sep 20, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> I don't know if you're referring to me or not mossystate, but I'm not saying that just fat girls should smile back and whatever..I'm saying EVERYONE should..like, common decency.



No. I got that your thing was about common decency. I will say that it seems you are perhaps not properly reading the OP. We would not have this thread if some random man he smiled at did not smile back. He did not get what he hoped for, and that is why he has to make it about the psychology of Fat Women.

It always makes more of an impression when the object of our desire ( yes, this was about desire, no matter the level ) does not finish the mini fairy tale that swirls around in our noggin. Any other quick dismissal would probably have the OP simply....shrugging.


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 20, 2008)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> If that were what the OP was after, thatgirl, it would be an entirely different conversation. If you don't get it, you don't get it.



I realize he said that part about telling a girl she's beautiful as well..but part of it was just about the fat chick he saw who didn't smile back and everyone's like WHY SHOULD I? JUST BECAUSE I'M A FAT GIRL. WHY DOES EVERYONE WANT FAT GIRLS TO SMILE BACK? Like, calm the fuck down. Like, everyone should smile back..like, ya know, to be nice? 

If a guy came up to me and was like, hey, you're pretty, I'd probably think he was kidding but I'd be like thanks, anyway. Like, what's the big deal? So if you girls have a guy come up to you and be like, hey, you're pretty, you either give him a dirty look because you "don't want that attention," you assume he's trying to rape you..or both? 

Like, if you seriously walk around going DON'T GIVE ME COMPLIMENTS. DON'T SMILE AT ME. EVERY GUY THAT TALKS TO ME WANTS TO RAPE ME..like no, I don't get that. And shit, I don't even want to.



mossystate said:


> No. I got that your thing was about common decency. I will say that it seems you are perhaps not properly reading the OP. We would not have this thread if some random man he smiled at did not smile back. He did not get what he hoped for, and that is why he has to make it about the psychology of Fat Women.
> 
> It always makes more of an impression when the object of our desire ( yes, this was about desire, no matter the level ) does not finish the mini fairy tale that swirls around in our noggin. Any other quick dismissal would probably have the OP simply....shrugging.



Like yeah, I get what you're saying..what the OP said was kind of lame but like, the responses were out of control. Like everyone seems so defensive. I don't think the OP was trying to say that he expects every single fat girl he thinks is attractive to like, gush over him becuase they should be grateful for the attention or something, but like, that's what it sounded like you guys were saying he was trying to say.


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## olwen (Sep 20, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> The OP said he smiled at a girl, and she gave him a dirty look, so I was just commenting on the idea of someone being irritated by a simple hello or smile. Which I don't get it. Like, how much does it take to smile back? Even when people come over to talk to me and I don't really want to talk to them I don't act like a huge bitch. Nor do I assume they're planning on raping me. What's so hard to understand about that?




So I'm a bitch if I decide I don't want to be bothered? Nice.

I understand where you are coming from perfectly. You think I should smile back simply because it's polite and you think I shouldn't assume that every guy who smiles isn't trying to pick me up or that he wouldn't try to follow me or feel me up or walk me into a niche in between two buildings where nobody can see us, or try to put his arm around me, or get in my face or do any of those things that some guys try to do. 

You don't seem to understand where I'm coming from. I watch my back around random men who try to talk to me because of the experiences I've had and I explained that more than once. 

The difference between me and you is that if I'm not in the mood I'm not going to suffer thru unwanted attention just because it would make him feel better about himself or just because it's the polite thing to do. Fuck that. If wanting to have control over how a guy responds to me sexually makes me a bitch than so be it.


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## olwen (Sep 20, 2008)

....:pens mouth::....::closes mouth::....

I gotta say I'm just appalled that another woman would tell me I'm a bitch for not wanting to respond positively to unwanted sexual attention. This is not about common courtesy. It's not. It is about how a fat woman responds to *unwanted sexual desire*.


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## Fascinita (Sep 20, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i agree. most big girls can't take a compliment well. i took kind of an oath that i should make more of an effort to tell people what i like about them instead of just thinking it. when i did i noticed that a lot of times when i compliment another big girl she says"oh no" and then disqualifies it. sometimes they just seem to think your pulling their leg or trying to make brownie points for some reason.
> 
> it never hurts to smile back at people. but we tend to be soooo negative sometimes. it comes from having a lot of bad experiences i think. maybe we should just take things like smiles and compliments at face value and stop trying to analyze so much. then when something nice and honest comes along we won't be suspicious and spoil it.
> 
> PS: is repeating that to herself right now like a mantra



I disagree completely. The fat women I know are confident, gracious and elegant. At the same time, just like anyone else, they have bad days. 

I don't understand why fat women are both accused of being sub-human and expected to be super-human.

I'd like to see the day when the world gets tired of ragging on and pushing fat women around. Maybe then we'll be allowed to live and let live without all the BS expectations.


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## JoeFA (Sep 20, 2008)

Maybe when you smiled at this girl, she was either having a bad day, as fascinita pointed out, as all women do (which is pretty obvious i have to say), or that she had just experienced some negative behaviour towards her, like an insult or jibe directed at her. SO she may have thought you were doing the same, viewing it as a put down rather than a compliment.

It's just a theory, but a likely one, non?


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## Suze (Sep 20, 2008)

JoeFA said:


> Maybe when you smiled at this girl, she was either having a bad day, as fascinita pointed out, as all women do (which is pretty obvious i have to say), or that she had just experienced some negative behaviour towards her, like an insult or jibe directed at her. SO she may have thought you were doing the same, viewing it as a put down rather than a compliment.
> 
> It's just a theory, but a likely one, non?


i just think she was not that into him.

plain and simple. life goes on, happens to everyone.


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## mossystate (Sep 20, 2008)

LOL...good lord.

Maybe she is a rude person, and has nothing to do with her fat body and any previous history. Maybe she just spent her last dollar. Maybe her Tampax Pearl did not live up to the commercials. Maybe she is not interested in disturbing her creative process as she thinks about the title of her next book.

MAYBE SHE IS JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU.


But, seriously, how many men ( straight men ) out here analyze when another man does not return a smile. I would REALLY be interested in honest answers. You want to analyze, then let's analyze this. Just make sure you are open to connecting dots. So, boys, any takers?


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## Fascinita (Sep 20, 2008)

I keep saying: Women are people. Fat women are people.

The idea that we sit around waiting to frown or smile at well-meaning FAs (or the even more antiquated and ridiculous idea that we are sitting at home eating our pain away, too shy and too traumatized to step out of the house) is silliness. 

The myth that we have to be one thing or the other--either completely, radiantly confident at all times OR completely demoralized and dejected and crying on the inside--is myth, through and through.

Now, excuse me while I go title my book and mumble under my breath at the lack of maxipads that don't bunch up in one's bloomers.


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## ThikJerseyChik (Sep 20, 2008)

JoeFA said:


> Maybe when you smiled at this girl, she was either having a bad day, as fascinita pointed out, as all women do (which is pretty obvious i have to say), or that she had just experienced some negative behaviour towards her, like an insult or jibe directed at her. SO she may have thought you were doing the same, viewing it as a put down rather than a compliment.
> 
> It's just a theory, but a likely one, non?




OR

She was in her own world..not even really looking at the OP who was smiling at her (I know when I am in my own little alternate universe..especially if I am deep in thought, I can be looking at someone but really not...YKWIM?) but looking THROUGH him...so not to be RUDE or non responsive she wasn't even aware that he was smiling AT her??

JMHO

Chik


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## Tina (Sep 20, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> The OP said he smiled at a girl, and she gave him a dirty look, so I was just commenting on the idea of someone being irritated by a simple hello or smile. Which I don't get it. Like, how much does it take to smile back?


Aside from some great points that others brought up, sometimes people are having such a bad day they cannot smile. Maybe they're lost in their thoughts about something awful that happened. 

This sounds super trite, but a smile is a gift you give to someone. When you give a gift, not only do you not get to tell them what to do with it, but they are not obligated to give you a gift back. You give from feelings of generosity, and to expect something in return means you haven't just given a gift, you've given something that has strings attached.

Also, the fact that the OP or anyone else doesn't get a smile back is not commentary on their worth as a human being, so to focus on it and feel upset that they were not validated with a smile is a real sign of insecurity. Therefore, I would say to look within yourself first, before pointing fingers at others, because let's be honest, it's no one's business why the recipient of the smile didn't smile back. No one's. And she also was under no obligation.

You just don't know why someone doesn't smile back. It could be something as simple as them feeling grumpy or maybe being unfriendly in general. It could be her cat died last night, she had been beaten last night, something awful had happened that day. But no, the assumption is that it's because SHE is the one with self worth low enough that she won't give the obviously worthy knight in shining armor a smile that he so rightly deserves. I know this comes off as sarcastic, and I kind of mean it to be but I don't mean it to be sarcastic in a nasty way, but an ironic one. I also want to drive the point home that, again, no one has a right to assume anything about another person when they don't smile back; and that the person should truly look inward and question why it's so upsetting that she didn't that it's enough to come here and post about.


> Even when people come over to talk to me and I don't really want to talk to them I don't act like a huge bitch. Nor do I assume they're planning on raping me. What's so hard to understand about that?


That's you. I don't judge you for smiling when you don't want to; you shouldn't judge others for maybe not smiling when they just can't. You don't have enough information to judge, and it's just plain not your, or anyone else's, business.


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## Tooz (Sep 20, 2008)

Into it or not, the girl the OP is talking about could have had more poise. Just smile back, it doesn't have to mean anything.


Let's all chill.


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## fatgirlflyin (Sep 20, 2008)

olwen said:


> ...sigh...look, I'll try to explain it again...
> 
> Let's do an example: A guy is in a bookstore and he sees a cute girl and he smiles at her. She looks him up and down, scowls, and then looks away. She's obviously not interested. So he realizes she's not interested and goes about his business.
> 
> ...




I think he may have said fat women because that's just who he happens to be attracted to. I didn't get the feeling that he meant anything negative by it, or even suggesting that fat women should be grateful for compliments because after all they're fat and should take them when they can get them. That's not how I read his post anyway. I really just read it as he was a young man who may or may not be all that great at flirting decided to shoot a girl he found cute, a smile and was irritated that she didn't return said smile.


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## mossystate (Sep 20, 2008)

Tooz, there seems to be something funny about that post. You voice what you think is the problem, and your opinion, and then tell the rest of us to....chill. Maybe it was meant for the ' things to say during a forum rumble ' thread?


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## Lovelyone (Sep 20, 2008)

I can't speak for anyone else's experience in this matter but my own. I will just say that when i was younger I often had the "nice compliments" from guys who were playing a joke on me. They would talk to me, smile, flirt, see how I responded and then go across the hallway and laugh with their friends about how they messed with the fat girls head. I was asked on dates--only to be stood up, called on the phone while friends listened in, pranked by phone and mail (a letter postmarked and on letterhead from the school arrived with pictures of pigs and cows from magazines inside). 
I've even experienced some not-so-gentlemanly actions by so called fat admirers from this site and others. So maybe these things might make a person suspicious of kindness when all they have known are examples of cruelty and meanness.

It took me a long time to accept that maybe a man might be smiling at me cos he found me attractive. It took me even longer for me to think that a guy who is talking to me doesnt have a candid camera crew lurking around somewhere so they could surprise me with the fact that they werent really interested...it was all a joke. I STILL have a suspicious nature at times. Does it mean that I dont want someone to try? NO...I welcome it. Does it mean that I will suspect you of being like those people when you first talk with me? Probably! Does it mean that I wont give you a chance to know me? No, it means that a determined person will succeed where the others have given up. When someone compliments me I always say thank you and try to compliment them in return....HOWEVER, I find that it tends to make the person think that I am automatically interested in THEM. I think that is a mistake that a lot of people make (that a compliment means an interest) What I have found is that for ME...when someone wants to know me, it is much easier to become a friend first and progress into something more.


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## missy_blue_eyez (Sep 20, 2008)

Tooz said:


> Into it or not, the girl the OP is talking about could have had more poise. Just smile back, it doesn't have to mean anything.
> 
> 
> Let's all chill.



COULDNT.AGREE.MORE!



thatgirl08 said:


> The OP said he smiled at a girl, and she gave him a dirty look, so I was just commenting on the idea of someone being irritated by a simple hello or smile. Which I don't get it. Like, how much does it take to smile back? Even when people come over to talk to me and I don't really want to talk to them I don't act like a huge bitch. Nor do I assume they're planning on raping me. What's so hard to understand about that?



There was loads of your points that I loved mate! I agree, for me a smile goes a long long way and in this day and age, where people are too busy to even look up, a bit of good cheer from person to person is so nice. Im generally a pretty smiley person, and its so nice that that is one of the main things people always notice about me 'Naomi has always got a smile on her face.' I love knowing that a little smile, or a hello could really make the difference to someones day. And yeah some of the cynics on here could very well say 'dont be so ridiculous, you smiling at someone on the bus isnt gonna make their whole day different.' But I beg to differ. Maybe when your in that bad mood in the future, take that smile off someone...and try passing it on? Get outta those big cities!!!!! Its making you miserable ladies!!!! hehe  

P.S Keep your knickers on...Im jus jokin with you ...SMILE!


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## Shosh (Sep 20, 2008)

I think I am someone that needs to learn to take a compliment. I always dismiss out of hand when I am paid a compliment, probably because I am insecure about myself.
I am going to try harder to let it in though.
As far as smiling, I always try to smile back. Sometimes it is hard if I am having a bad day, but I still try to anyway.
I recognize that I need to be more positive in order to attract more positivity into my life.


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## Miss Vickie (Sep 20, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> I guess you're too much of a cynic for me to get it. I can't really fathom why the occasional smile would irritate someone. So you just go around scowling at everyone you see? That's cool I guess.





thatgirl08 said:


> I don't know if you're referring to me or not mossystate, but I'm not saying that just fat girls should smile back and whatever..I'm saying EVERYONE should..like, common decency.



"Common decency"?? You mean like not calling someone cynical or a bitch? Like* that* kind of common decency?



olwen said:


> So I'm a bitch if I decide I don't want to be bothered? Nice.
> 
> I understand where you are coming from perfectly. You think I should smile back simply because it's polite and you think I shouldn't assume that every guy who smiles isn't trying to pick me up or that he wouldn't try to follow me or feel me up or walk me into a niche in between two buildings where nobody can see us, or try to put his arm around me, or get in my face or do any of those things that some guys try to do.
> 
> ...



I totally "get" where you're coming from. Given your experiences, your reaction makes total sense. I'm going through a similar thing right now with someone who's pushing my comfort zone and despite my kindly mentioning it, I keep getting pushed and pushed and pushed. I know that it's going to take me being a total bitch to be listened to, and I HATE that. Why am I the bitch because I have a self protective streak, one which is hard earned from being physically, sexually and emotionally abused? I realize that I probably take stuff too seriously that people say or do, but can't I be entitled to my own boundaries?



mossystate said:


> LOL...good lord.
> 
> Maybe she is a rude person, and has nothing to do with her fat body and any previous history. Maybe she just spent her last dollar. Maybe her Tampax Pearl did not live up to the commercials. Maybe she is not interested in disturbing her creative process as she thinks about the title of her next book.
> 
> ...



You make an interesting point. If her fat truly wasn't an issue, then he could have been smiling at anyone, right? But why is it a big deal if it's a fat woman? And since when is a smile necessarily a compliment? It could be a tic, or it could be a reflex or it could be any number of things. I'm the first to admit I can't accept a compliment (poor Burtimus, lord knows he tries...) but I'm not sure that smiling at someone is a compliment. I smile at my patients all the time... does it mean I like them? Nope. But by the end of the day, I'm often "smiled out" and can barely muster one for my family and critters. Or you guys. 



ThikJerseyChik said:


> OR
> 
> She was in her own world..not even really looking at the OP who was smiling at her (I know when I am in my own little alternate universe..especially if I am deep in thought, I can be looking at someone but really not...YKWIM?) but looking THROUGH him...so not to be RUDE or non responsive she wasn't even aware that he was smiling AT her??
> 
> ...



Oh my gosh, this is so me. I've been told so many times that I look upset or angry or told to "smile" when I'm deep in thought. Does anyone ever tell men to smile? I think not.


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## ThikJerseyChik (Sep 20, 2008)

Miss Vickie said:


> Oh my gosh, this is so me. I've been told so many times that I look upset or angry or told to "smile" when I'm deep in thought. Does anyone ever tell men to smile? I think not.



Thank you, Miss Vickie, I was beginning to think my post was invisible!


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## Miss Vickie (Sep 20, 2008)

ThikJerseyChik said:


> Thank you, Miss Vickie, I was beginning to think my post was invisible!



You could never be invisible. Now smile, Sugar.


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## southernfa (Sep 20, 2008)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Dunno how it is in your neighborhood, but out here in God's country, if a man smiles at a man he gets his ass whupped. This ain't _Brokeback Mountain_.



Down here we have a lot of sheep, used to be around 20/human. When that movie came out a local cartoonist did a rather droll cartoon of two drovers (shepherds) leaving the cinema, shaking their heads. The caption "I just don't get it, all those sheep and they fall in love with each other..." 



superodalisque said:


> i agree. most big girls can't take a compliment well. i took kind of an oath that i should make more of an effort to tell people what i like about them instead of just thinking it. when i did i noticed that a lot of times when i compliment another big girl she says"oh no" and then disqualifies it. sometimes they just seem to think your pulling their leg or trying to make brownie points for some reason.


 I don't think it is limited to girls. Recently, I got a flood of positive responses and reps to a particular post and responded to virtually none of them which I now feel rather ashamed about. Partially, it's a staunch kiwi guy thing, partially thats just me, I embarrass easily. Stupid, but I didn't know what to say.


superodalisque said:


> it never hurts to smile back at people. but we tend to be soooo negative sometimes. it comes from having a lot of bad experiences i think. maybe we should just take things like smiles and compliments at face value and stop trying to analyze so much. then when something nice and honest comes along we won't be suspicious and spoil it.
> PS: is repeating that to herself right now like a mantra


As ever I guess, communication is the key. If we have a question worth asking, we should ask it, otherwise, as in the OP's topic, it remains hypothetical and unreal.


mossystate said:


> LOL...good lord.
> 
> But, seriously, how many men ( straight men ) out here analyze when another man does not return a smile. I would REALLY be interested in honest answers. You want to analyze, then let's analyze this. Just make sure you are open to connecting dots. So, boys, any takers?


Where angels fear to tread... 

Of course not. This is because we men really are very simple creatures. If a guy doesn't smile at you, its because he doesn't want to. There doesn't actually have to be a reason. He may have simply not thought about it yet. If there is a reason, he will let you know when he is ready. Until then you wait. Simple.

Women are ever so slightly different. Firstly there is a reason, there is always a reason, possibly many, possibly on a rapid rotation cycle. They may involve you, or not. They may be benign, but probably not. You may be required to respond, or not, or both. This is where men got the idea for Russian Roulette...



Tooz said:


> Just smile back, it doesn't have to mean anything.


I agree and with ThatGirl08. It seems to me a sad indictment that an initial point of contact between to adults should be inferred to carry any sexual inference or significance. Especially from a smile... (As an aside I just experimented by imagining making a "sexy" smile to someone I had never met. It made me look like Will Ferrell and a pigeon fell off the roof).

The premises behind things like "common courtesy" and the Christian "Golden Rule" are sound because they help draw us closer together and form a stronger society. The underlying sense of estrangement and individualism behind the proposition that "I can be in a foul mood and the rest of the world can just deal with it" is, I would suggest, a move in the opposite direction.


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## mossystate (Sep 20, 2008)

A man does not return a smile, and it is understood, allowed, and perhaps, for some, encouraged. A woman does not return a smile and she is slapping the Golden Rule upside the head and making it cry a thousand tears. 

Seems that men are less ' simple '...and more....demanding. 

Trust me. When I do not return a smile, it is because I don't want to. Like men, I don't have a reason....which is total bullshit, as no human, male or female, is acting or not acting for no reason.

No matter the level of  you were dropping in your post, it truly would be wonderful if how we dealt with other humans did not have so many rules attached, depending on the outer shell of said human.


Oh, a woman can dream.


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## Fascinita (Sep 20, 2008)

southernfa said:


> Of course not. This is because we men really are very simple creatures. If a guy doesn't smile at you, its because he doesn't want to. There doesn't actually have to be a reason. He may have simply not thought about it yet. If there is a reason, he will let you know when he is ready. Until then you wait. Simple.
> 
> Women are ever so slightly different. Firstly there is a reason, there is always a reason, possibly many, possibly on a rapid rotation cycle. They may involve you, or not. They may be benign, but probably not. You may be required to respond, or not, or both. This is where men got the idea for Russian Roulette...



So it boils down to, "men are allowed not to smile (they just don't want to!) but women should really stop being such loaded weapons and learn how to make nice"?

Clever!


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## superodalisque (Sep 20, 2008)

i just think people are too down and negative on other people in general. being a fat girl isn't a special case. no one fat or not should go around making nasty faces at people who aren't doing anything to them other than smiling. its just unnecessary and ignorant. i think most people watch to much tv and think everyone is out to get them. there is no story if there is no antagonist for the protagonist to overcome. we pay so much attention to the few people with bad intentions that we fail to realize that on the whole most people have good ones. if they didn't we couldn't have a civilization and everyone would be running rampant making stabby motions. you create the world you live in.


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## superodalisque (Sep 20, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> I disagree completely. The fat women I know are confident, gracious and elegant. At the same time, just like anyone else, they have bad days.
> 
> I don't understand why fat women are both accused of being sub-human and expected to be super-human.
> 
> I'd like to see the day when the world gets tired of ragging on and pushing fat women around. Maybe then we'll be allowed to live and let live without all the BS expectations.



how is saying be decent enough not to scowl pushing a fat woman around? i thought we were capable of having manners like everyone else last i heard. after all , he wasn't even asking that the smile be returned.

when FAs don't note us in public we complain. when they do we complain. we complain about everything. how is someone supposed to win with us? if i was a guy i might just say F--K it.

i understand that some people have hangovers from bad experiences in high school etc... but for a lot of us that was half a lifetime ago and its time to let them go. and for those who are younger the earlier you let them go the better. high school is another animal from most of the rest of life. its easy to be emboldened to point out other people's faults when you are living with your parents and they are paying the bills. none of your chickens have come home to roost yet and no one can really determine your major failings yet. but a lot of people learn a few things when they get older and start being judged harshly for things themselves. tg we don't always stay the same and some of us actually improve. then there are the other folks who were picked on for things other than beng fat and would never harrass you in a million years because they remember how it felt. acceptance goes both ways. if you don't want people being rude to you just because your fat, why should you be able to be rude to other people just because your fat?


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## Fascinita (Sep 20, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> how is saying be decent enough not to scowl pushing a fat woman around? i thought we were capable of having manners like everyone else last i heard. after all , he wasn't even asking that the smile be returned.
> 
> when FAs don't note us in public we complain. when they do we complain. we complain about everything. how is someone supposed to win with us? if i was a guy i might just say F--K it.



You're missing the point entirely. And, once again, making (fat) women responsible for everybody else's happiness. And we're just a bunch of complainers, huh? I don't see it that way. Let's agree to disagree.


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## superodalisque (Sep 20, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> You're missing the point entirely. And, once again, making (fat) women responsible for everybody else's happiness. And we're just a bunch of complainers, huh? I don't see it that way. Let's agree to disagree.



fat women are responsible for their own happiness and for being a part of the world just like anyone else. we aren't retarded. its so horrible! someone smiled at us


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## mossystate (Sep 21, 2008)

So now if one questions certain attitudes, it means they walk around with a scowl on their face. I am one of those horrible people who actually go out of my way to notice people who might not normally GET a smile...ever. So, maybe...just maybe...some people don't want to see anything that is not the very top layer. Well, when you don't peek at the layers, you set yourself up for feeling blindsided.

SuperO..nobody here has said smiling at someone is bad, in and of itself....you don't see beyond what you want to see...fine...


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## Tina (Sep 21, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> So it boils down to, "men are allowed not to smile (they just don't want to!) but women should really stop being such loaded weapons and learn how to make nice"?
> 
> Clever!


It would be so easy to go into the whole 'women's bodies as public property' thing, but I've been down that road so many times, and it only leads to chaos and misunderstanding. And yet, for many, they are. Chatel for the selling of goods; "smile!"...

"Oh, god, look at her hair!"
"What about him?"
"I didn't notice."

And on and on and on... Deja vu all over again.

Anyways, y'all, Smile!!!  (I am)


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## Lovelyone (Sep 21, 2008)

OMF Tina smiled at me...should I smile back? *slowly smiles*


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 21, 2008)

Point of this thread: If a woman doesn't return your smile, then there is something wrong with her - according to men and women in this thread...and anyone that doesn't agree with them "needs to chill".....because there is something wrong with us......

If a man doesn't do it, then no big deal....there is never anything wrong with a man or what/why he chooses to do


Men are better than women......they are "normal" 




I'm going to go chill now and practice smiling at ANYONE THAT DEMANDS IT BECAUSE I OWE EVERY STRANGER IN THE WORLD SOMETHING FOR NOTHING in the mirror so people on the net won't tell me there is something wrong with me.


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## mossystate (Sep 21, 2008)

Don't do it, Terri. Trust me. Tina is a terror. 

and


Greenie...yup...that seems to be the moral to this clusterfuck.

:bow:


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## Fascinita (Sep 21, 2008)

I don't disagree that the OP was likely just being nice. He looks like a perfectly good guy, and the Batman t-shirt is very funny. 

This discussion has evolved to a level beyond that which applies directly to the OP, on the other hand.

Smiling is great! Smiling releases endorphins. Smilers live longer.

But smiling shouldn't be compulsory, in my opinion.


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## Lovelyone (Sep 21, 2008)

*smiles at Fascinista and dares to be different*


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## mossystate (Sep 21, 2008)

* smiles at all of you...and you never get to know what I really think of you...all that matters is that I am smiling *.....my gums are getting dry...I need a personal swabber...like Diddy P Daddy O had an umbrella wrangler.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 21, 2008)

Lovelyone said:


> *smiles at Fascinista and dares to be different*


Glad to see that you are normal


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## Tina (Sep 21, 2008)

mossystate said:


> Don't do it, Terri. Trust me. Tina is a terror.


Tina the Terror...

How did you know???

Nah, I don't think the OP is a bad guy, but I think that the original post speaks to larger societal expectations where women are concerned. I also think the conversation naturally evolved, as they usually seem to, for better or worse.


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## Lovelyone (Sep 21, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Glad to see that you are normal


 
Who told you that lie? I worked very hard to be abnormal...they are going to ruin the reputation I struggled so hard to develop


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## Tina (Sep 21, 2008)

Lovely, your abnormality is the main reason I smiled at you. :batting:


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## Shosh (Sep 21, 2008)

Matt the OP certainly is a nice guy. He sent me a lovely message on my My Space page today. Guess what? It made me smile also.


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## southernfa (Sep 21, 2008)

mossystate said:


> A man does not return a smile, and it is understood, allowed, and perhaps, for some, encouraged. A woman does not return a smile and she is slapping the Golden Rule upside the head and making it cry a thousand tears.
> 
> Seems that men are less ' simple '...and more....demanding.
> 
> ...





Fascinita said:


> So it boils down to, "men are allowed not to smile (they just don't want to!) but women should really stop being such loaded weapons and learn how to make nice"?
> 
> Clever!



OK, It was, or at least I thought it was, fairly transparent that I was in a puckish mood and not to be taken too seriously. Nonetheless, the point, in as much as there was one, was that men and women generally think and act differently. To underline that, how many man reading this thread have leap in to castigate me for deriding our gender as dull and slow to react? Which I essentially did. Or for that matter how many have leaped to my defense for the other comments? None, they are quite content to watch me burn on this one and quite rightly. It's all good sport. And that's a point in itself, irritating as such stereotypes are, there tends to be a grain of truth in them.

However, for the record, lightly stating the status quo was in no way an endorsement of it and nor it can reasonably be imputed that I would advocate one rule for women and one for men. Quite the opposite, my position would have to be that it would be the ideal situation if men and women voluntarily lived by such disciplines for the good of all, themselves included.

The voluntary aspect seems important as otherwise there seems to be an assumption that such things are automatically an external imposition, which they need not be.

Lastly, and I appreciate that this can be highly irritating, but sometimes there really is no reason inside men. We really aren't thinking anything. Speaking from personal experiencehe conversation goes something like this;
"You're grumpy!"
"Huh?"
"You're grumpy!"
"No, no I'm not"
"Yes, you are, you're grumpy"
"No, really, I'm not"
"Yes, you are and it's not fair that you won't talk about it"
"What!?!? Look, I wasn't grumpy, but I'm getting there real fast!"


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## Fascinita (Sep 21, 2008)

southernfa said:


> puckish mood



Mickey Rooney plays a wonderful Puck in the 1935 version of Midsummer Night's Dream.


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## kioewen (Sep 21, 2008)

Johnny718Bravo said:


> But when I smiled at her, she gave me the dirtiest look, like I just insulted a member of her family.
> 
> This isn't the first time this has happened. So I came to two possible conclusions:
> 
> ...



Sadly, you should consider a third option, depressing though it may be:

She may think she's better than you.

Consciously or subconsciously, she might not think you're good enough to be giving her a smile.

I'm thinking of a funny Simpsons moment, showing Homer and his friends in high school: Barney Gumble (later to become the town drunk) keeps asking girls out to the prom, and their responses are a vehement "Oh, God, no!", laced with disgust. True, it's more than a smile on his part -- but his smiles would probably be met with similar responses.

Funny scenes. But I wonder how many men get treated like Barneys, even if they're not. People have an acute sense of their "social standing" or "social worth" -- sometimes accurate, sometimes not -- and make little effort to behave well to people whom they consider undesirable, if there's even a suggestion of attraction on their part.

Oh, and for the record, I'm guessing that the same is true when the genders are reversed.


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## Tooz (Sep 21, 2008)

mossystate said:


> Tooz, there seems to be something funny about that post. You voice what you think is the problem, and your opinion, and then tell the rest of us to....chill. Maybe it was meant for the ' things to say during a forum rumble ' thread?



Yes, but see, I'm not flipping out about it as some seem to be. There are people who have posted in this topic that I respect greatly, as their posts generally seem to be well-crafted and well-thought out, but in this situation I think people are reading far too much into what was intended to be a somewhat positive post. People were spazzing. "Chill" was relevant.


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## olwen (Sep 21, 2008)

Tooz said:


> Yes, but see, I'm not flipping out about it as some seem to be. There are people who have posted in this topic that I respect greatly, as their posts generally seem to be well-crafted and well-thought out, but in this situation I think people are reading far too much into what was intended to be a somewhat positive post. People were spazzing. "Chill" was relevant.



Tooz, look, I don't think Johnny wasn't well intentioned. 

I understand the just chill sentiment, but this discussion has been about a larger social context where fat women are held to a ridiculous standard. As much as some people want this to be about benign sentiments, it isn't about benign sentiments. If it were would Jonny have been so upset? He's posted about this sort of frustration before. Some FAs have posted about that sort of frustration in the past. Some refer to fat people they already know (which is a different situation) and some, like Johnny refer to people they don't know so well. In my mind a benign compliment isn't a sexual one. Telling someone you could see as a mate that they are beautiful is a sexual come on. Telling someone that they're wearing an awesome shirt is a benign one. 

I've been speaking from my own experiences where sometimes if I acknowledge a compliment from someone I'm not interested in they see it as an opening to up the ante so to speak. Some want to hound me till I give them my number even after I've said, no thank you. As far as I'm concerned it's a way for them to try to force themselves on me. That isn't always desirable. Fortunately or unfortunately, the best way to deal with the unwanted/undesirable compliments is to ignore them or try to put out a very clear signal that you aren't interested. This discussion has been about how some men react to that clear signal the woman isn't interested. It doesn't matter what her reasons are, and yet here we've been called upon to try to explain/rationalize what her reasons might have been. 

I honestly have to wonder how adamant some of these guys would be about that if I were thin. Would they think - oh I guess I'm not in her league, or would they think how dare she turn me down.

I don't want to date or have sex with every man who gives me compliments. Plain and simple. I don't agree that women should be asked to just chill about anything that has to do with their own sexual preferences or desire. To do so is to be policing women's bodies. That to me is simply untenable. Don't we get enough unfair signals from society at large about what we are supposed to be doing with our uteruses, and on top of that another layer about what we are supposed to do with them if they inhabit fat bodies? I do not have to be grateful for every sexual come on I receive. I don't have to acknowledge every come on I get and I shouldn't have to apologize or explain why either. Some men just have to learn to accept and cope with rejection. Period.


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## Suze (Sep 21, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> fat women are responsible for their own happiness and for being a part of the world just like anyone else. we aren't retarded. its so horrible! someone smiled at us


"retarded" people are also a part of this world...just sayin...
no need to talk down on another group just to prove your point.


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## Johnny718Bravo (Sep 21, 2008)

Susannah said:


> Matt the OP certainly is a nice guy. He sent me a lovely message on my My Space page today. Guess what? It made me smile also.



You're very welcome *Hugs*

__________
"Smile. You'll live longer."


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## Keb (Sep 21, 2008)

The right compliment at the right time makes my soul sing for the rest of the day, and I don't forget it for a long time. 

But I too had the paranoia-creating experience of one-too-many peers teasing me as a kid over my weight. I had to work to convince myself that kids in the hall might be laughing at something that wasn't me at times. 

I'd rather have a compliment from someone I know at least a little bit than a perfect stranger. The latter might be nice, but how do I know what his motives are? Whereas, if I've at least had an introduction, I might feel more comfortable about what he's saying. (I'm probably still going to say something along the lines of "This old thing?" but I won't slap him in the face for saying something at that point.)


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## olwen (Sep 21, 2008)

Johnny, I'm interested to know what you think.


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## SupaSexi (Sep 21, 2008)

I think this thread has been taken out of context on many levels, but I don't care to even get into that right now. I do want to say that I personally know Johnny online and IRL and maybe if some of you did too, you would realize that his intentions are good. He is not arrogant nor a chauvinist. 

Personally, if I get smiled at, I smile back. If the guy then tries to talk to me, and I am not interested or simply I am not in the mood, I just tell him thanks, but no thanks and move on. We as fat women do not have to accept every advance made towards us, just because we are fat, but I don't think that is what he meant, but maybe its because I actually know him and have been in public with him. This world could use more FA's like him IMO.

I find it interesting that more big girls here haven't admitted to the fact that they have issues taking compliments. I have complimented other bbw/ssbbw's and have had to convince them that I really meant what I said and I am a BIG GIRL too. This world has hardened a lot of us and understandably so, but everyone isn't out to get us and smiling shouldn't be a big deal.


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## Miss Vickie (Sep 21, 2008)

SupaSexi said:


> I think this thread has been taken out of context on many levels, but I don't care to even get into that right now.



How can a thread, _being discussed in that thread_, be being taken out of context? It is, by definition, in its original context. I mean, if we were discussing the thread in another forum, on another board, or in real life, then that may be possible. But this *is* the context, so I don't know what you mean. It doesn't get much more "in contexty" than that, does it?



> I do want to say that I personally know Johnny online and IRL and maybe if some of you did too, you would realize that his intentions are good. He is not arrogant nor a chauvinist.



I don't think we've been questioning his intentions. We're just discussing the larger social mores that mean that women have to respond to favorable attention by being grateful and happy. We don't expect guys to do that, do we? I think Johnny is a great guy, seems very nice and all. But some of us are trying to explain to him -- and other guys who may find themselves in this same pickle -- why a woman might not smile back and what it may, or may not, mean.



> I find it interesting that more big girls here haven't admitted to the fact that they have issues taking compliments.



Maybe it's because it's an intensely personal issue for them that they feel uncomfortable discussing in public? Which is certainly their right. Or maybe they don't have problems accepting compliments. I know, though, that I sure do, and I've been very straightforward about that. When a man (or woman!) smiles at me, I usually smile back out of reflex, whether or not its meant as a compliment. I don't, however, expect that everyone else follow suit. And I'm sure there have been times when I've been distracted and the person could have put their tongue in my ear and I wouldn't have noticed. (Okay, maybe not that distracted but you get my meanin'). 

As for whether smiling should or shouldn't be a big deal, I think that's an individual decision that we should respect in each other. And I think it's a reach to assume that a smile is a compliment. To me a compliment is a compliment. Smiling is mere social lubrication.


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## Johnny718Bravo (Sep 21, 2008)

SupaSexi said:


> I think this thread has been taken out of context on many levels, but I don't care to even get into that right now. I do want to say that I personally know Johnny online and IRL and maybe if some of you did too, you would realize that his intentions are good. He is not arrogant nor a chauvinist.
> 
> Personally, if I get smiled at, I smile back. If the guy then tries to talk to me, and I am not interested or simply I am not in the mood, I just tell him thanks, but no thanks and move on. We as fat women do not have to accept every advance made towards us, just because we are fat, but I don't think that is what he meant, but maybe its because I actually know him and have been in public with him. This world could use more FA's like him IMO.
> 
> I find it interesting that more big girls here haven't admitted to the fact that they have issues taking compliments. I have complimented other bbw/ssbbw's and have had to convince them that I really meant what I said and I am a BIG GIRL too. This world has hardened a lot of us and understandably so, but everyone isn't out to get us and smiling shouldn't be a big deal.



Thank you so much SupaSexi! I greatly appreciate it. I've got the biggest smile on my face right now. Some people might get ticked off about that though, not gonna mention any names LOL. Oh well...

The point of my post was to get an idea of why some BBWs respond negatively to compliments. It could be someone could be having a bad day, completely understandable, we all have bad days. As for past experiences, I can go with you to a point. The past can make us or break us, but don't take my head off because some jerk in the 5th grade passed you a mean note 

I do have the purest intentions. I'm not arrogant or a chauvinist or a mean guy. All too often, people today are exposed to massive helpings of negativity. Some of us can shake it off, but some of us become hardened by it. They can have that "the world is out to get you" attitude. And it sucks. 

I only bring positivity with me wherever I go. If more people did the same, they wouldn't be walking down the street angry and grumbling. If smiling at someone that looks good is a crime, give me life in prison!

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


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## SupaSexi (Sep 21, 2008)

I understand what you are saying, but what I meant is that many issues have been brought up that did not pertain to what happened with him and this woman in thier brief encounter. I understand that it opened up a forum for more discussion, which is cool, but that is the part I wish to stay clear from because am I physical sick and PMSin, so I choose to avoid "heavy" topics during this time.



Miss Vickie said:


> How can a thread, _being discussed in that thread_, be being taken out of context? It is, by definition, in its original context. I mean, if we were discussing the thread in another forum, on another board, or in real life, then that may be possible. But this *is* the context, so I don't know what you mean. It doesn't get much more "in contexty" than that, does it?



I haven't read every single post and maybe you haven't either b/c some have questioned his intentions and called him arrogant.



Miss Vickie said:


> I don't think we've been questioning his intentions. We're just discussing the larger social mores that mean that women have to respond to favorable attention by being grateful and happy. We don't expect guys to do that, do we? I think Johnny is a great guy, seems very nice and all. But some of us are trying to explain to him -- and other guys who may find themselves in this same pickle -- why a woman might not smile back and what it may, or may not, mean.



You are right, it is an individual decision, but I personally think what follows the smile should be what concerns people IMO. How can the smile itself be harmful? All he did was smile at her and then questioned why some big girls have issues accepting compliments, right?



Miss Vickie said:


> As for whether smiling should or shouldn't be a big deal, I think that's an individual decision that we should respect in each other. And I think it's a reach to assume that a smile is a compliment. To me a compliment is a compliment. Smiling is mere social lubrication.


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## Tina (Sep 21, 2008)

SupaSexi said:


> I find it interesting that more big girls here haven't admitted to the fact that they have issues taking compliments.


Personally, I believe it's because most of us don't necessarily believe that the way woman in question behaved necessarily automatically indicates that she has self-esteem issues, or difficulty accepting compliments. And I think that perhaps the assumption that she does by the OP might be distracting some of us from actually discussing that issue. I'll bet a separate thread on that issue might garner some interest. Care to start one?


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## Miss Vickie (Sep 21, 2008)

Tina said:


> Personally, I believe it's because most of us don't necessarily believe that the way woman in question behaved necessarily automatically indicates that she has self-esteem issues, or difficulty accepting compliments. And I think that perhaps the assumption that she does by the OP might be distracting some of us from actually discussing that issue. I'll bet a separate thread on that issue might garner some interest. Care to start one?



Good idea, Tina. And I know I keep harping on this but I wonder: am I crazy that I don't assume that a smile is a compliment? I just think of it as a social nicety. I smile when I hold a door open for someone, or vice versa. I smile when I'm given my groceries at the store, when the barista hands me my latte, etc. And professionally, I smile at my colleagues and patients, even when they piss me off.  But I don't see it as a "compliment" at all. Am I missing something vital in my communications with others?


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## Keb (Sep 21, 2008)

Miss Vickie said:


> Good idea, Tina. And I know I keep harping on this but I wonder: am I crazy that I don't assume that a smile is a compliment? I just think of it as a social nicety. I smile when I hold a door open for someone, or vice versa. I smile when I'm given my groceries at the store, when the barista hands me my latte, etc. And professionally, I smile at my colleagues and patients, even when they piss me off.  But I don't see it as a "compliment" at all. Am I missing something vital in my communications with others?



If you are, so am I. I smile at people sometimes just to see if they'll smile back, and generally they do. When I was a kid I used to believe that smiling at someone might somehow make their entire day better. Dunno if I believe that now, but I've been told I have a nice smile, so I like to show it off.


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## Miss Vickie (Sep 21, 2008)

Keb said:


> If you are, so am I. I smile at people sometimes just to see if they'll smile back, and generally they do. When I was a kid I used to believe that smiling at someone might somehow make their entire day better. Dunno if I believe that now, but I've been told I have a nice smile, so I like to show it off.



*whew* Okay, good to know that if I'm crazy then I'm at least in good company.  And you do have a nice smile, Keb. I say that as someone who notices such things, and you have lovely teeth and very cute dimples. Lucky girl.


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## SupaSexi (Sep 21, 2008)

Johnny718Bravo said:


> Thank you so much SupaSexi! I greatly appreciate it. I've got the biggest smile on my face right now. Some people might get ticked off about that though, not gonna mention any names LOL. Oh well...
> 
> The point of my post was to get an idea of why some BBWs respond negatively to compliments. It could be someone could be having a bad day, completely understandable, we all have bad days. As for past experiences, I can go with you to a point. The past can make us or break us, but don't take my head off because some jerk in the 5th grade passed you a mean note
> 
> ...



It is my pleasure. You have been a huge source of support and encouragement to me and a loving friend. Thanks for NEVER judging me. I know they don't know what I mean, but I know you do. Thanks for getting to know this fat girl for who I am and not what I look like. Thanks for never being disrespectful or inappropriate towards me. Thanks for ALWAYS checking on me and my daughter. I am glad you smiled at me many years ago and more importantly, I am glad I smiled back at you.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Sep 21, 2008)

I'm bringing this up because several posters have referred to it indirectly, but nobody has stated it explicitly: everybody has a different comfort zone -- or, actually, several of them. For example, most Americans prefer to speak to people they don't know well from a distance of about eighteen inches to two feet; relatives and intimate friends can come closer, but to have a stranger approach to within six inches -- well, that's why we have the expression "in your face." You probably don't mind if a friend touches your arm or shoulder while talking to you (though some people do), but you'd be uncomfortable if a stranger did it. All of these -- smiling, touching, giving compliments, or just talking -- are forms of communication, and different people will have different comfort zones for all of them. With people you know, you're aware of their comfort zones, and you subconsciously adapt to them, as they do to yours. But when you attempt to communicate with a stranger, you can never be certain what to expect. It is pointless to say, "Well, _I_ always do such-and-such, so other people should, too!" because people aren't the way they ought to be, they're the way they _are_.


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## Fascinita (Sep 21, 2008)

I changed my mind about smiling.

I think smiles are obnoxious.

I'm frowning at you as I type.

If you don't return my frown, you have poor self-esteem.

If you have a different opinion, you are a pill.

End of story.


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## SupaSexi (Sep 21, 2008)

I see what you mean and I think starting a new thread would be a good idea, but I will have to pass until I get over my cold and wicked bout of PMS. I am not the most tactful person during this time lol. Thanks for the reply and suggestion though. 





Tina said:


> Personally, I believe it's because most of us don't necessarily believe that the way woman in question behaved necessarily automatically indicates that she has self-esteem issues, or difficulty accepting compliments. And I think that perhaps the assumption that she does by the OP might be distracting some of us from actually discussing that issue. I'll bet a separate thread on that issue might garner some interest. Care to start one?


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## Miss Vickie (Sep 21, 2008)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I'm bringing this up because several posters have referred to it indirectly, but nobody has stated it explicitly: everybody has a different comfort zone -- or, actually, several of them. For example, most Americans prefer to speak to people they don't know well from a distance of about eighteen inches to two feet; relatives and intimate friends can come closer, but to have a stranger approach to within six inches -- well, that's why we have the expression "in your face." You probably don't mind if a friend touches your arm or shoulder while talking to you (though some people do), but you'd be uncomfortable if a stranger did it. All of these -- smiling, touching, giving compliments, or just talking -- are forms of communication, and different people will have different comfort zones for all of them. With people you know, you're aware of their comfort zones, and you subconsciously adapt to them, as they do to yours. But when you attempt to communicate with a stranger, you can never be certain what to expect. It is pointless to say, "Well, _I_ always do such-and-such, so other people should, too!" because people aren't the way they ought to be, they're the way they _are_.



Damn, I can't rep you. I agree completely with everything you said. I think that we need to be careful telling people what they "should" do, just because it feels right to us. As you say, everyone has different comfort zones and it'd be nice if we were respectful that.


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## Tina (Sep 21, 2008)

Awww, Fascinita, you're just a mean, ol' curmudgeon. 


SupaSexi said:


> I see what you mean and I think starting a new thread would be a good idea, but I will have to pass until I get over my cold and wicked bout of PMS. I am not the most tactful person during this time lol. Thanks for the reply and suggestion though.


Ha!! We're going through the same exact thing right now, then. 

And, a few times now I've started responding to various threads and then stopped myself, because I'm not sure how tactful I'm being, either at times, and don't want to offend inadvertently (if I'm going to offend, I'd rather do it on purpose! j/k), and just don't have the energy right now for much follow-through. Hope you feel better soon. Want some of my cough and cold herbal tea with honey?


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## Keb (Sep 21, 2008)

Well, there are days that I'm so tired, frustrated, whatever, that even meeting other people's eyes is a challenge for me. Usually I do it quite naturally, since I have a hearing loss and looking at people when they speak helps -so- much. But when I'm not feeling good, looking at other people becomes -work-. I seriously doubt I'm even close to autistic, but I read that many autistic kids have trouble looking other people in the eyes because they have trouble processing all the information that you get just from that action.

We do a lot of communicating that has nothing to do with our voices.


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## mossystate (Sep 21, 2008)

So, and I don't remember who said it, sorry. So, if a woman admits she has an issue taking compliments.....so? Is that some sort of ah-HA! moment for some, where they can then nod knowingly and diagnose all of who and what she is? How does that take away from some of what is being discussed here that a woman should not HAVE to return a ' compliment '.


Again, we are not discussing the courtesy people can sometimes stop showing one another. This is all about deciding, from a frown ( a rejection..that's what it is being seen as, in this case ), that a woman was a dejected fat female, not that she was not into the OP, as he rejected that possibility ( and why did he even think that was a possibility, if this was just a friendly smile..and not a come on...hmmmm? ). Why this talk of maybe not being her ' type ', again, if this was not about a hope that was swimming around his head?



This was a hope that was squashed. This is not about fat women not being able to take a supposed compliment, any more than it could be about ANY human being not able to graciously take a compliment. Pretend you don't see my fat, next time you approach me. I hate that how I look to you will factor so heavily into your observations. Can you imagine if all that was seen were the eyes...the nose..the mouth. 

The OP wanted people to agree with his theory. Anything else is silly and not possible. This was not fat women not being able to take a compliment, and it remains a bit irritating that so much is being dismissed. Still would like to know if the OP has ever been so concerned when a man does not return a smile. Oh, sorry, that's different. I need to see the rules book. My 46 years on this planet still has me all confused. Waaaaaa.


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## southernfa (Sep 21, 2008)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I'm bringing this up because several posters have referred to it indirectly, but nobody has stated it explicitly: everybody has a different comfort zone -- or, actually, several of them. For example, most Americans prefer to speak to people they don't know well from a distance of about eighteen inches to two feet; relatives and intimate friends can come closer, but to have a stranger approach to within six inches -- well, that's why we have the expression "in your face." You probably don't mind if a friend touches your arm or shoulder while talking to you (though some people do), but you'd be uncomfortable if a stranger did it. All of these -- smiling, touching, giving compliments, or just talking -- are forms of communication, and different people will have different comfort zones for all of them. With people you know, you're aware of their comfort zones, and you subconsciously adapt to them, as they do to yours. But when you attempt to communicate with a stranger, you can never be certain what to expect. It is pointless to say, "Well, _I_ always do such-and-such, so other people should, too!" because people aren't the way they ought to be, they're the way they _are_.



But isn't this is why we have established greeting 'protocols' such as the smile, the handshake (I was going to add the curtsy but my death wish is fading...)? In a pluralistic society these things may become more complex but surely also more necessary.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 21, 2008)

olwen said:


> Tooz, look, I don't think Johnny wasn't well intentioned.
> 
> I understand the just chill sentiment, but *this discussion has been about a larger social context where fat women are held to a ridiculous standard. As much as some people want this to be about benign sentiments, it isn't about benign sentiments. If it were would Jonny have been so upset? He's posted about this sort of frustration before. Some FAs have posted about that sort of frustration in the past. * Some refer to fat people they already know (which is a different situation) and some, like Johnny refer to people they don't know so well. In my mind a benign compliment isn't a sexual one. Telling someone you could see as a mate that they are beautiful is a sexual come on. Telling someone that they're wearing an awesome shirt is a benign one.
> 
> ...



I concur....this thread started mainly because it is easier for someone to say that the person that rejected them has something wrong with them....instead of thinking there might be something wrong with himself. Not saying there is......just saying that just because she didn't return a smile (and no, a smile is a politeness....not a compliment- glad that is no longer being so grossly misconstrued :doh doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with either of them. 


You are also absolutely right that some men DO think that if they approach a woman "nicely" then she is then somehow "obligated" to "make nice" back. Fuck that - it's an ignorant...and INCORRECT mentality. No one owes him a smile, a number or a fuck. 
It really IS plain and simple as that......even if it makes a guy feel better to have to attempt to psychoanalyze a woman that rejects as having some innate serious personal problem....all because she didn't smile back :doh:




Fascinita said:


> I changed my mind about smiling.
> 
> I think smiles are obnoxious.
> 
> ...



I like it when you do this.....:wubu:



Keb said:


> Well, there are days that I'm so tired, frustrated, whatever, that even meeting other people's eyes is a challenge for me. Usually I do it quite naturally, since I have a hearing loss and looking at people when they speak helps -so- much. But when I'm not feeling good, looking at other people becomes -work-. I* seriously doubt I'm even close to autistic, but I read that many autistic kids have trouble looking other people in the eyes because they have trouble processing all the information that you get just from that action.*
> 
> We do a lot of communicating that has nothing to do with our voices.



You know....you make a really good point here Keb...
I used to drive for a transportation service for the handicapped and elderly. You couldn't even tell that a good number of them had some type of disability until you spent enough time around them to pick up on that. They didn't always want to smile back....and some loved to smile all the time. I took it as it came but took none of it personally. They didn't know me any better than I knew them. 
That woman could be mentally handicapped, having a bad day, or didn't want to talk to Johnny...so what????
In other words....we don't know so why all this psychoanalyzing of a stranger as in it means that all fat women in general have "problems" if they don't fall down backwards when a guy smiles at them?


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## Tooz (Sep 21, 2008)

olwen said:


> I understand the just chill sentiment, but this discussion has been about a larger social context where fat women are held to a ridiculous standard.



That's not really...related to the OP's thing, though. So, isn't that what another thread would be for? I'm not trying to be rude...I'm just actually kind of confused.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 21, 2008)

Johnny718Bravo said:


> I like big girls. Scratch that, I LOVE them  But* there's just one small problem. Some just don't know how to take a compliment. *The other day, I saw a beautiful big girl on my lunch break. *She saw me looking at her. We made eye contact. But when I smiled at her, she gave me the dirtiest look, like I just insulted a member of her family.
> *
> *This isn't the first time this has happened. So I came to two possible conclusions: *
> 
> ...





Tooz said:


> *That's not really...related to the OP's thing, though. *So, isn't that what another thread would be for? I'm not trying to be rude...I'm just actually kind of confused.




The OP states that he thinks it's more than likely a fat woman, as in fat women IN GENERAL...not just the few he has encountered as individuals, took his simple smile as an insult....and since it's happened to him before...he thinks fat women AS A WHOLE cannot take compliments (oh, and as already pointed out, a smile is NOT a compliment...so that was an even greater leap/assumption to make) because of the small trend he has witnessed. That's a big leap, isn't it? Wrought full of assumption about fat women and how they think/feel. That is what the "protest" has been about....not that anyone really thinks Johnny is a "bad guy"...... just don't like the many assumptions we all so often see about fat people....once again.


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## Tooz (Sep 21, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> The OP states that he thinks it's more than likely a fat woman, as in fat women IN GENERAL...not just the few he has encountered as individuals, took his simple smile as an insult....and since it's happened to him before...he thinks fat women AS A WHOLE cannot take compliments (oh, and as already pointed out, a smile is NOT a compliment...so that was an even greater leap/assumption to make) because of the small trend he has witnessed. That's a big leap, isn't it? Wrought full of assumption about fat women and how they think/feel. That is what the "protest" has been about....not that anyone really thinks Johnny is a "bad guy"...... just don't like the many assumptions we all so often see about fat people....once again.



A smile IS a compliment, depending on who you ask.
Whew! God forbid people have differing opinions! [email protected]


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 21, 2008)

People with differing opinions were the ones told to "chill"........:blink:

The assumption that people that don't feel it's necessary to return a smile has something inherently wrong with them is asinine.....


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## Santaclear (Sep 21, 2008)

_*Smiles sweetly_


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## Lovelyone (Sep 21, 2008)

Santaclear said:


> _*Smiles sweetly_


 
*Ponders what devious thing, Santaclear may be up to?


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## Johnny718Bravo (Sep 21, 2008)

kioewen said:


> Sadly, you should consider a third option, depressing though it may be:
> 
> She may think she's better than you.
> 
> ...



That's very true, Conclusion Number 3 should not be ignored. You've got confident people. Then you have COCKY people, huge difference. Guess I just wasn't her cup of tea.

BTW, I'm a fan of the Simpsons and an even BIGGER fan of Family Guy


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## Johnny718Bravo (Sep 21, 2008)

mossystate said:


> So, and I don't remember who said it, sorry. So, if a woman admits she has an issue taking compliments.....so? Is that some sort of ah-HA! moment for some, where they can then nod knowingly and diagnose all of who and what she is? How does that take away from some of what is being discussed here that a woman should not HAVE to return a ' compliment '.
> 
> 
> Again, we are not discussing the courtesy people can sometimes stop showing one another. This is all about deciding, from a frown ( a rejection..that's what it is being seen as, in this case ), that a woman was a dejected fat female, not that she was not into the OP, as he rejected that possibility ( and why did he even think that was a possibility, if this was just a friendly smile..and not a come on...hmmmm? ). Why this talk of maybe not being her ' type ', again, if this was not about a hope that was swimming around his head?
> ...







Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I concur....this thread started mainly because it is easier for someone to say that the person that rejected them has something wrong with them....instead of thinking there might be something wrong with himself. Not saying there is......just saying that just because she didn't return a smile (and no, a smile is a politeness....not a compliment- glad that is no longer being so grossly misconstrued :doh doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with either of them.
> 
> 
> You are also absolutely right that some men DO think that if they approach a woman "nicely" then she is then somehow "obligated" to "make nice" back. Fuck that - it's an ignorant...and INCORRECT mentality. No one owes him a smile, a number or a fuck.
> It really IS plain and simple as that......even if it makes a guy feel better to have to attempt to psychoanalyze a woman that rejects as having some innate serious personal problem....all because she didn't smile back :doh:



Mossy and Green, do you two find it difficult to walk down the street with those huge chips on your shoulders?

I'm sorry if you both think smiling in the year 2008 is evil.


----------



## daddyoh70 (Sep 21, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> I changed my mind about smiling.
> 
> I think smiles are obnoxious.
> 
> ...



Oh yea, well take this  Sorry, somebody walked by and smiled at me while I was typing this.


----------



## mossystate (Sep 21, 2008)

Johnny718Bravo said:


> Mossy and Green, do you two find it difficult to walk down the street with those huge chips on your shoulders?
> 
> I'm sorry if you both think smiling in the year 2008 is evil.





Way to prove that your ego cannot take a woman not wanting to even smile at you. Any semi-intelligent person will now have no doubt.

JB, there really is nothing you wanted here other than to piss and moan about being rejected, and patting women on the head. You continue not getting what some are saying, and continue not caring. That seems to always be in fashion, no matter the year.


Good luck. You are going to need it.


----------



## olwen (Sep 21, 2008)

Johnny718Bravo said:


> Mossy and Green, do you two find it difficult to walk down the street with those huge chips on your shoulders?
> 
> I'm sorry if you both think smiling in the year 2008 is evil.



Eh, Johnny, I'm not sure if you're being facetious or just missing the point entirely. We haven't said smiling is evil or that it would kill us to smile back. We're only saying sometimes women (this includes all women, not just us fatties) don't want to smile or have to smile if *we perceive it as a come on*. In other words there's smiles and then there's smiles. 

What if you (assuming you're straight) perceived a smile from another man to be a come on? What if he smiled and said he thought you were hot? Would you feel obligated to smile back and say thank you, or would you think "What the hell is he staring at?" then scowl and look away? I think in such a case it's safe to say you're old enough and sexually experienced enough to be able to tell the difference. Yes? Well, so are we.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe (Sep 21, 2008)

SupaSexi said:


> [snip] All he did was smile at her and then questioned why some big girls have issues accepting compliments, right?



Wrong. One led him to the other. What he did was make an assumption.

She didn't smile back. He wondered why. Instead of coming to the conclusion that it could have been any one of a million things that makes a woman not smile back, he concluded she couldn't take a compliment. 

Why is this a problem? He's assuming it's _more likely_ that this woman has low self-esteem than that she's just plain not interested, not paying attention to him, already married/taken and not interested in encouraging him to approach her, or any number of things. I personally can and do receive compliments quite well, and if some guy assumed that just because I'm not smiling at him it must mean I have low self-esteem, you bet I would be insulted. That is an arrogant thought process.

I'm not saying the OP is an arrogant person. I don't know him from John Doe. All I'm saying is that that particular thought process, one which he revealed in the OP is arrogant. That is why so many of us are responding negatively. 

Additionally, the title of the thread "Take the Compliment," and the way in which he orders ladies to buck up and return his smile, is additionally insulting, not to mention sexist. It has very "you'll take what I give you and thank you" undertones to it. As numerous others have stated, if the genders were reversed, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Some of you still will not understand this, I'm sure. But this is the best I can explain it. I accept that you don't get it, and feel differently than I do, and I expect you to accept that my feelings are just as valid as yours. Just because I feel differently than you do does not make me wrong, so being dismissive of my feelings (and the rest of the ladies here that feel the way I do) is not going to change anything at all. We all have the right to express our opinions, and feel the way we feel. We're all human.


----------



## Fascinita (Sep 21, 2008)

daddyoh70 said:


> Oh yea, well take this orry, somebody walked by and smiled at me while I was typing this.



I know! Brings the piss and vinegar out in you, doesn't it?! 

Now get to frowning!


----------



## Aireman (Sep 21, 2008)

First off I don't know Johnny. And I don't know the girl he was smiling at; that being said; I think John has a valid point but, failed to broaden the thought to include almost ALL people having a problem with a compliment. It takes a well adjusted or very well mannered person to handle a compliment with grace and aplomb.

It's obvious that some people have some serious energy against men in this forum. Instead of simply pointing out that he should have included the fact that maybe all people at some time or other are less than receptive to an advance (perceived or actual) it instead devolved into Johnny bashing with a thinly vailed man bashing session.

Look, we all have our frustrations from time to time. And I have to admit that I too can be less than perceptive. Especially when it comes to the opposite sex. And yes, this forum is to advance and glorify the fuller female form. AND, as a rule I can take a little male bashing with a wink and a nod 'cause Lord knows some guys deserve it.

But, to see the wall of discontent fall on John over what I consider a small infraction of forum etiquette makes me wonder if the energy released doesn't point to a more personal perusal of self. As the phyic's say " Hmmm a significant reaction".


----------



## Shosh (Sep 21, 2008)

As I said earlier Matt is a very polite and lovely person. He was probably wanting to brighten the woman's day.
I see so much negativity out there that it is nice to see a man wanting to spread some happiness.

I would prefer that than some of the nasty attitudes you have to cop from some people.


----------



## daddyoh70 (Sep 21, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> I know! *Brings the piss and vinegar out in you*, doesn't it?!
> 
> Now get to frowning!



What doesn't these days.


----------



## Fascinita (Sep 22, 2008)

Aireman said:


> instead devolved into Johnny bashing



I disagree. None of this was personal until the OP chose to take it in that direction.




> with a thinly vailed man bashing session.



So what is your post about? A thinly veiled woman bashing session?

It works both ways, see. 

I'm sorry you don't think fat women should enjoy the freedoms to be who they are without being pigeonholed or judged, just like everyone else. Just don't expect me to smile and nod eagerly on command. I think, honestly, that you should reconsider your position. But it's really none of my business, so I'll leave you to it.


----------



## Fascinita (Sep 22, 2008)

Susannah said:


> I see so much negativity out there that it is nice to see a man wanting to spread some happiness.



Well, he's certainly managed to do that here. Right?

Susannah, please explain to me how it's polite to tell people they have chips on their shoulders? This was an impersonal (if heated) debate, until the OP chose to come out sneering defensively at individual posters.

You know, it's not enough to _want_ to spread sunshine. The trick is to be clever and sensitive enough that you learn a thing or two about how to _actually_ make it happen. The way I see it, no amount of smiling is going to disguise an attitude that is at bottom just contemptuous of the real needs of other people.


----------



## olwen (Sep 22, 2008)

I know what I'm gonna be for halloween.

I'm gonna get a t-shirt made that says "Beware..." on the front and "Angry Feminist" on the back. I'm gonna wear the most masculine clothes I can find and I'll walk with a swagger. I'll scowl at everyone I meet and anytime a man tries to speak to me I'll pop him in the mouth, accuse him of trying to control my delicate feminine mind, remind him I have thoughts of my own, then kick him in the balls for good measure, you know, because I'm soooo angry and senseless violence is always called for when one is just so angry. Gotta stay in character. 

Mental note: wear steel toed boots that day.

It'll be fun. I can't wait.

:rollseyes:


----------



## BigBeautifulMe (Sep 22, 2008)

olwen said:


> I know what I'm gonna be for halloween.
> 
> I'm gonna get a t-shirt made that says "Beware..." on the front and "Angry Feminist" on the back. I'm gonna wear the most masculine clothes I can find and I'll walk with a swagger. I'll scowl at everyone I meet and anytime a man tries to speak to me I'll pop him in the mouth, accuse him of trying to control my delicate feminine mind, remind him I have thoughts of my own, then kick him in the balls for good measure, you know, because I'm soooo angry and senseless violence is always called for when one is just so angry. Gotta stay in character.
> 
> ...


Hahahahahaaha. A+. Why can't I rep this woman?! Someone get her for me!


----------



## Lovelyone (Sep 22, 2008)

olwen said:


> I know what I'm gonna be for halloween.
> 
> I'm gonna get a t-shirt made that says "Beware..." on the front and "Angry Feminist" on the back. I'm gonna wear the most masculine clothes I can find and I'll walk with a swagger. I'll scowl at everyone I meet and anytime a man tries to speak to me I'll pop him in the mouth, accuse him of trying to control my delicate feminine mind, remind him I have thoughts of my own, then kick him in the balls for good measure, you know, because I'm soooo angry and senseless violence is always called for when one is just so angry. Gotta stay in character.
> 
> ...


 
OMG I think that is the funniest thing I have ever seen written here. I would sooooooo rep her but I already have and it wont let me!!! *laughs until she cries*


----------



## mossystate (Sep 22, 2008)

The man bashing accusation. 

YAY! 

Arrived a little later than normal. Slackers.


----------



## Aireman (Sep 22, 2008)

olwen said:


> I'm gonna wear the most masculine clothes I can find and I'll walk with a swagger. I'll scowl at everyone I meet and anytime a man tries to speak to me I'll pop him in the mouth, then kick him in the balls for good measure, you know,
> 
> Mental note: wear steel toed boots that day.



If ya can't see it I can't explain it. But, your doing it again. 
Why is it that those seeking acceptance; cant see their own prejudices.


----------



## Jack Skellington (Sep 22, 2008)

What we've got here is a failure to communicate.

Sometimes I think some men (Im speaking in general terms here) just dont get women. They sometimes cant pick up on body language or misread it or they will read or hear something a woman has written or said and just cant really grasp it from the other perspective.

This, in a way, reminds me of the discussion of the SSBBW health forum. Some of the men just werent getting it and felt it was somehow a slight to them. I felt then, as I do now, that sometimes some men occasionally just cant grasp the idea that not everything is about them. 

As it has been explained here, there are many valid reasons a woman might be made to feel uncomfortable by a stranger smiling at them or complimenting them. It doesnt automatically mean they cant take a compliment or are man hating or insecure or have a chip on their shoulders. Nor is it somehow a slight. 

Heck, heres a thought, they (women) like everyone else have a zillion things to think about at once (work, family, bills, whatever.) and may not have really even noticed. 

Go ahead and smile at people. Thats great. But to expect or demand anything in return kind of defeats the purpose of it in my opinion. As they say, being nice is its own reward.


----------



## Aireman (Sep 22, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> So what is your post about? A thinly veiled woman bashing session?
> It works both ways, see.



Actually, no. It wasn't. And no, it doesn't


----------



## Aireman (Sep 22, 2008)

Lovelyone said:


> OMG I think that is the funniest thing I have ever seen written here. I would sooooooo rep her but I already have and it wont let me!!! *laughs until she cries*



This is how you see men? Really? I can't imagine where you get that. Hollywood?


----------



## Fascinita (Sep 22, 2008)

I think we've reached the point in this thread when I am no longer not willing to bring in a reference to the Nazis.


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## Santaclear (Sep 22, 2008)

Jack Skellington said:


> Go ahead and smile at people. That’s great. But to expect or demand anything in return kind of defeats the purpose of it in my opinion. As they say, being nice is its own reward.



Excellent post, Jack. I totally agree, especially this last paragraph.


----------



## Santaclear (Sep 22, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> I think we've reached the point in this thread when I am no longer not willing to bring in a reference to the Nazis.



Now you're hitting below the belt, Fasc. 
Col. Klink occasionally complimented the prisoners. He was a reluctant Nazi at best, and besides, he's kinda smiling in that pic.


----------



## Lovelyone (Sep 22, 2008)

Aireman said:


> This is how you see men? Really? I can't imagine where you get that. Hollywood?


 
I wasnt laughing at men. I could actually picture Olwen doing that...jeez what is your fucking problem? I suppose every response on this thread should be approved by YOU so that we dont offend the sensibilities of tender men? get a grip.


----------



## Shosh (Sep 22, 2008)

I hope that this won't turn into a women v's men thing. We are better than that.


----------



## LoveBHMS (Sep 22, 2008)

See, I did not even see this from a gender frame of reference, I read it from an FA frame of reference. I was not even thinking about gender.

We FAs can be frustrated A's (admirers). I'm not comparing the experience of being a fat person in a thin world with being an FA, but again, consider the experience of the FA.

The hot fatty who thinks you're kidding when you flirt

The hot fatty who won't believe you're interested despite an abundance of obviousness

The hot fatty who constantly tells you s/he does not believe s/he is hot

The hot fatty who tells you a dozen times he's never had _anyone_ be attracted to his body.

And so forth. The part of the original post that hit me first was when the OP said he liked fat women. So what I read was that he has probably had numerous of the above mentioned experiences and is every bit as frustrated and bitter over BBW or SSBBW reactions to his advances or flirtations. It's not about him thinking that a fat woman should be grateful he finds her sexually appealing, but maybe rather wishing that his advances or expressions of attraction were not frequently met negatively.


----------



## swordchick (Sep 22, 2008)

I rarely smile. It doesn't mean that I am not happy. Also, I do not look at everyone's face when I am out, even when it looks like I am. If anyone wants me to "take a compliment", it would be best to do it verbally so I can take it for all it is worth.


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## Ernest Nagel (Sep 22, 2008)

All communication is a calculated risk. Every interaction includes the possibility of being misinterpreted. Compliments of any kind can be smothered by a diligent factoring of the risk/benefit equation, especially with BBW. If I say she has lovely eyes will she think I'm suggesting she needs to lose weight? If I simply tell a woman she looks beautiful (because she does) will it be misconstrued as an advance/flirting? So many contingencies argue for silence. _Except_ that we would be foregoing the opportunity to make someone feel a bit better, to feel noticed in a positive way.

The way I see it what anyone chooses to do with what I've said in the best of intentions is up to them. To say nothing is to deny them the opportunity of that choice because I'm afraid they'll choose in a way that is unfavorable to me. In the end it seems not trusting people to feel as they choose is a bigger risk, as well as a bigger offense, than silence. JMO :bow:


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## Cors (Sep 22, 2008)

The BBWs I smile at, or compliment tend to be receptive because I am female and not obviously gay. I guess they might be more suspicious if they know I do like girls, though probably not to the extent experienced by male FAs. 

I know it can be frustrating if the women you admire constantly interpret it negatively, but think of it this way. You will meet many attractive women in your lifetime, and you smile at them or pay them a compliment. At least one, if not more will genuinely appreciate it. 

Olwen, I read all your posts on this thread. The way you would react is completely understandable, and I think you articulated it very well. I admire you for speaking out and sharing your experiences.


----------



## imfree (Sep 22, 2008)

An abuser can use a smile or compliment to win his
victim's trust................

Undisputed Truth-Smiling Faces(1971)

Smiling faces sometimes pretend to be your friend
Smiling faces show no traces of the evil that lurks within
Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes
They don't tell the truth uh
Smiling faces, smiling faces
Tell lies and I got proof

The truth is in the eyes
Cause the eyes don't lie, amen
Remember a smile is just
A frown turned upside down
My friend let me tell you
Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes
They don't tell the truth, uh
Smiling faces, smiling faces
Tell lies and I got proof
Beware, beware of the handshake
That hides the snake
I'm telling you beware
Beware of the pat on the back
It just might hold you back
Jealousy (jealousy)
Misery (misery)
Envy

I tell you, you can't see behind smiling faces
Smiling faces sometimes they don't tell the truth
Smiling faces, smiling faces
Tell lies and I got proof

Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes
They don't tell the truth
Smiling faces, smiling faces
Tell lies and I got proof
(Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes)
(Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes)
I'm telling you beware, beware of the handshake
That hides the snake
Listen to me now, beware
Beware of that pat on the back
It just might hold you back
Smiling faces, smiling faces sometimes
They don't tell the truth
Smiling faces, smiling faces
Tell lies and I got proof

Your enemy won't do you no harm
Cause you'll know where he's coming from
Don't let the handshake and the smile fool ya
Take my advice I'm only try' to school ya

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZGUgwzKzEg

A smile, given out of real kindness, requires no response.


----------



## ThikJerseyChik (Sep 22, 2008)

Smile though your heart is aching
Smile even though its breaking
When there are clouds in the sky, youll get by
If you smile through your fear and sorrow
Smile and maybe tomorrow
Youll see the sun come shining through for you

Light up your face with gladness
Hide every trace of sadness
Although a tear may be ever so near
Thats the time you must keep on trying
Smile, whats the use of crying?
Youll find that life is still worthwhile...


...If you just smile


----------



## dragorat (Sep 22, 2008)

*As has been said there are many possible reasons why she didn't.I don't see the big deal about the whole thing.I smile at a lot of people especially on the job.It's all part of customer curtesy.Out side the job if I see someone that looks interesting(in any kind of way) & we happen to make eye contact I may smile.If they smile back all well & good if not oh well.It's not going to hurt me if they don't.The reason is only known to them.I'm not going to judge them on it.If they do return the smile YES it is a spirit lifter.Besides remember the old saying..."Smile!It makes people wonder what you're up to!"*


----------



## Miss Vickie (Sep 22, 2008)

Aireman said:


> It's obvious that some people have some serious energy against men in this forum. Instead of simply pointing out that he should have included the fact that maybe all people at some time or other are less than receptive to an advance (perceived or actual) it instead devolved into Johnny bashing with a thinly vailed man bashing session.



How so? How has it devolved into bashing Johnny? All we've said is that a) maybe the woman was distracted, and b) do we really owe an admirer our gratitude and thanks for noticing us? And he never answered the question as to whether he'd be bent out of shape if he smiled at a guy who didn't return the smile. All we're doing is asking him to maybe consider more options than that a woman can't take a compliment; and in my case, I question whether a smile is a compliment or no. I see it more as social lubrication than a compliment. 

A compliment is, "You look lovely today." or "What gorgeous eyes you have" or "Where did you get that dress! I want it!" (which would hopefully be coming from another woman). But just smiling at someone? Not necessarily a compliment, although I'm a big smiler myself. I'll always smile back _if _I notice and_ if _I'm not so beaten down by the day's events that I can't. (Nothing like losing a newborn baby to take the wind out of your sails, know what I mean?) 



> Look, we all have our frustrations from time to time. And I have to admit that I too can be less than perceptive. Especially when it comes to the opposite sex. And yes, this forum is to advance and glorify the fuller female form. AND, as a rule I can take a little male bashing with a wink and a nod 'cause Lord knows some guys deserve it.



Well, I can't "take" even a little male bashing because I have a husband, a brother, and a son who I adore. So I'm the last person to engage in kind of gleeful male bashing you seem to perceive. But in this case there was no "bashing". It was merely pointing out to him what he might have been missing. 



> But, to see the wall of discontent fall on John over what I consider a small infraction of forum etiquette makes me wonder if the energy released doesn't point to a more personal perusal of self. As the phyic's say " Hmmm a significant reaction".



What the hell does that even mean? A what? A "personal perusal of self"?? And what the hell's a "phyic"?? English, please?



Fascinita said:


> Susannah, please explain to me how it's polite to tell people they have chips on their shoulders? This was an impersonal (if heated) debate, until the OP chose to come out sneering defensively at individual posters.



Yes. He could have accepted our responses a bit more graciously. Instead he chose the "it's _your_ problem" response. I shouldn't have been surprised, though, since the thread title wasn't "Why can't people take a compliment?" but rather demanding that we "Take The Compliment". A directive, rather than a question.



> The way I see it, no amount of smiling is going to disguise an attitude that is at bottom just contemptuous of the real needs of other people.



True that. Some politicians smile, as an example, while they're taking away our civil rights and getting us into unnecessary wars, jacking our national deficit to record levels and making us a laughingstock on the world's stage. I could do without that kind of "friendliness", couldn't you?



Jack Skellington said:


> What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
> 
> Sometimes I think some men (Im speaking in general terms here) just dont get women. They sometimes cant pick up on body language or misread it or they will read or hear something a woman has written or said and just cant really grasp it from the other perspective.
> 
> ...



I can't rep you but yes. What you said. Every damn word. Especially, as Santaclear said, the last paragraph. Being nice -- and telling people you don't know that they have a chip on their shoulder because they disagree with you -- _isn't_ nice.



swordchick said:


> I rarely smile. It doesn't mean that I am not happy. Also, I do not look at everyone's face when I am out, even when it looks like I am. If anyone wants me to "take a compliment", it would be best to do it verbally so I can take it for all it is worth.



Yep. Bring on the verbal compliments, folks. Don't make me work so hard to guess your intent.


----------



## thatgirl08 (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm not saying that I think it's like, a HUGE deal if someone doesn't smile back at me..I don't make assumptions about their character or anything [i.e. bitchy], all I'm saying is that I think a lot of you are overreacting. Yes, it's possible that the person you're smiling at is having a bad day or doesn't want to be "bothered" (although I'm not sure when a simple smile really became such an unbearable burden) or that the person that is smiling at you doesn't have the best intentions. Yeah, it's POSSIBLE but what are the chances that the majority feel/are that way? I think it's a little absurd to take such ridiculous precations..don't smile at anyone because they MIGHT be having a bad day or don't want to be "bothered" and don't smile back at anyone because they MIGHT be thinking about raping you. I just think that's a little ridiculous. Honestly, I don't know where all of you guys live...but around here, it's pretty normal to smile at people or say a quick hello as they pass you by on the street or in a hallway.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 22, 2008)

Johnny718Bravo said:


> Mossy and Green, do you two find it difficult to walk down the street with those huge chips on your shoulders?
> 
> I'm sorry if you both think smiling in the year 2008 is evil.



I find it difficult to walk down the street without some random stranger telling me what to do/think/feel. Ever had that problem? 
What is evil is an assumption that you know a whole group of people based upon the actions of how many? Three? Four? 

Ever had any stereotype you? I'm betting that you have.......so why do you think it's okay to do it to others? 




Fascinita said:


> I disagree. None of this was personal until the OP chose to take it in that direction.
> 
> So what is your post about? A thinly veiled woman bashing session?
> 
> ...



Thank you- Man bashing? Some people (women AND men) disagree with the OP so it's "man bashing"? As in we should all just stfu and agree with him mindlessly? Hell, he came here to a forum full of fat women, asking an opinion (Oh wait, he didnt really ask for opinions....he just wanted to come here to tell us WHAT WE SHOULD DO :doh: ) and is upset that not everyone just didn't blindly see his side of things? People all have varying opinions......that's life. Suck it up and grow up. 





mossystate said:


> The man bashing accusation.
> 
> YAY!
> 
> Arrived a little later than normal. Slackers.



True that....they really need to get back on their toes and put the wimmenz back in their place before they have to slap us around 



Aireman said:


> If ya can't see it I can't explain it. But, your doing it again.
> *Why is it that those seeking acceptance; cant see their own prejudices.*



Same reason you cannot....what was that you were on about self exploration? Your reaction to this thread and "women on the board" seems to be a little over the top......




Jack Skellington said:


> What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
> 
> Sometimes I think some men (I’m speaking in general terms here) just don’t get women. They sometimes can’t pick up on body language or misread it or they will read or hear something a woman has written or said and just can’t really grasp it from the other perspective.
> 
> ...



Will you marry me Jack? I promise to do what I am told  :wubu: :bow:





LoveBHMS said:


> See, I did not even see this from a gender frame of reference, I read it from an FA frame of reference. I was not even thinking about gender.
> 
> We FAs can be frustrated A's (admirers). I'm not comparing the experience of being a fat person in a thin world with being an FA, but again, consider the experience of the FA.
> 
> ...



But why are fat women as a whole group responsible for his experiences with a few? 



swordchick said:


> I rarely smile. It doesn't mean that I am not happy. Also, I do not look at everyone's face when I am out, even when it looks like I am. If anyone wants me to "take a compliment", it would be best to do it verbally so I can take it for all it is worth.



Exactly.....words are a compliment....a smile is simple body language...big difference. 



imfree said:


> An abuser can use a smile or compliment to win his
> victim's trust................
> 
> Undisputed Truth-Smiling Faces(1971)
> ...




Shush Edgar....you are paranoid and should just accept all the advances of strangers since you are so damn lucky to get them


----------



## imfree (Sep 22, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> ....................snipped............
> 
> Shush Edgar....you are paranoid and should just accept all the advances of strangers since you are so damn lucky to get them



Hahaha!, GEF, I'm really not that paranoid:doh:. Sadly, most strangers
don't seem to even make advances toward guys with oxygen tanks, 
It's a disability thing, I guess.


----------



## Miss Vickie (Sep 22, 2008)

imfree said:


> Hahaha!, GEF, I'm really not that paranoid:doh:. Sadly, most strangers
> don't seem to even make advances toward guys with oxygen tanks,
> It's a disability thing, I guess.



It must be that people think it's contagious.  Sorry, Edgar.


----------



## imfree (Sep 22, 2008)

Miss Vickie said:


> It must be that people think it's contagious.  Sorry, Edgar.



No problem, Miss Vickie, here's the real kicker, though. I'm
not contagious because I don't have lung disease, I don't
even have lung damage from any occupational exposures.
I have a central nervous system disorder that causes my
breathing to respond too slowly to blood carbon dioxide 
levels. At times, my body doesn't know to breathe enough
to match exertion levels. I'm just now learning to be
careful in my movement.


----------



## Miss Vickie (Sep 22, 2008)

imfree said:


> No problem, Miss Vickie, here's the real kicker, though. I'm
> not contagious because I don't have lung disease, I don't
> even have lung damage from any occupational exposures.
> I have a central nervous system disorder that causes my
> ...



Oh, *I* know you're not contagious. But you know how people are. They fear anything or anyone different; it's like a social contagiousness. It's the same thing with fatness, amputation, anything that makes people look different at all. It's really too bad.


----------



## superodalisque (Sep 22, 2008)

susieQ said:


> "retarded" people are also a part of this world...just sayin...
> no need to talk down on another group just to prove your point.




i'm so sorry . your so very right. i wasn't thinking. what i said was callous and wrong.


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## gildalive (Sep 22, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> I'm not saying that I think it's like, a HUGE deal if someone doesn't smile back at me..I don't make assumptions about their character or anything [i.e. bitchy], all I'm saying is that I think a lot of you are overreacting. Yes, it's possible that the person you're smiling at is having a bad day or doesn't want to be "bothered" (although I'm not sure when a simple smile really became such an unbearable burden) or that the person that is smiling at you doesn't have the best intentions. Yeah, it's POSSIBLE but what are the chances that the majority feel/are that way? I think it's a little absurd to take such ridiculous precations..don't smile at anyone because they MIGHT be having a bad day or don't want to be "bothered" and don't smile back at anyone because they MIGHT be thinking about raping you. I just think that's a little ridiculous. Honestly, I don't know where all of you guys live...but around here, it's pretty normal to smile at people or say a quick hello as they pass you by on the street or in a hallway.



I'm originally from the Midwest and am inclined to smile at people. But I learned pretty quickly in the city that acknowledgment is generally taken as encouragement. Like Olwen said, most adults can tell the difference between someone who is smiling at you "just because" and one smiling because they want something. 

Without going into a lot of detail, I've had bad experiences with men following me and yelling things at me because I made the mistake of being friendly. So now, most men are going to get my blank face unless they can verbalize what they want. Maybe that's harsh, but I live alone, and I'm not going to compromise my safety just because women are expected to go along to get along. 

I really think it's just a different perspective based on the different cultures of where we all live. But I love living here, and it's not like the small towns and medium sized cities I've lived in didn't have their own special brands of weirdness.


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## superodalisque (Sep 22, 2008)

i know its hard. i don't always do as i would like either. i am not always the best person to people who try to be nice to me either. its usually because i'm run by fear rather than what i know to be true. but its kinda sad to be more willing to take people at their worst than their best. i know its sad when i'm in a situation when i do it--very. i've lost a lot because of it.

but having said all that, i think for me its trying to have some joy in your life. seeing through a glass darkly doesn't bring me that for sure. not having joy gives me sadness and regret. but i'm human and sometimes i can't help myself even when i wish i could.

when i focus on women i do it because for so long i think its been the easy way out for us to focus on what other people do to us. hey, if someone is really trying to victimize you you should fight to the end as a woman. but you have to choose your battles. you can't fight about things that really have just been manufactured in your own mind. your energy is needed elsewhere for things that are more important. there is enough real stuff to combat. a smile from someone isn't one of them--especially when they are just expecting, not a smile, but just not to be scowled at in return. i know women feel weighed down by expectations. but so do men , so get over it. its not a unique feeling. you have to go a long way in your mind in a few seconds to make a smile into something bad. ask yourself, why are you willing to take such a long trip to get there?

if you don't want to encourage someone its very easy not to make an expression at all as if you just haven't seen. think about the opposite. what if you were walking somewhere and you smiled at someone and they scowled back. how would it make you feel. i have seen people talk about how behavior like that hurt them here on these boards. how much it made them feel like less of a person. they felt that they were rejected because they were fat. if the person kept their face blank you might just think their mind was somewhere else. maybe they thought you were smiling at someone else since you didn't know them. but a scowl has a definite negative intention. how is how we might feel any different from how someone else might feel in the same situation?. the double standard here really needs to be examined. besides all that karma is a bitch.

before its said i don't think fat women have any special requirement to be better than other people necessarily. what i do think is that PEOPLE who understand what its like to be hurt should be sensitive to the feelings of other people. otherwise its kind of strange to be asking the world for sensitivity and acceptance your not willing to give to others. why should society bother. i know i wouldn't.

i know i'll get kicked for this but i find that a lot of women have a problem with joylessness. somehow other women are stupid if they can have fun. they're shirking they're responsibilities if they do. we accuse them of just wanting attention. they are yes women if they try to talk to men without rancor and really figure out what they think instead of making uninformed pronouncements from on high about who they are. women who listen are painted as accepting and gullible if we don't go around trumpeting a man's flaws in public. but when it comes to us and our issues shhhh! don't talk about it. i think women have a real problem taking the best life has to offer. we have a problem trusting. we entertain too much hopelessness. we obsess over bad experiences we've had in the past and nurse on them like bile milk. we want to battle down anyone who stands in the way of our doing that. and thats why i think we fall into bad relationships and bad scenes because we feel thats all the world has to offer us--second hand and second rate experiences at best. we should look at that. 

i think we should allow men to join the conversation say how they feel and actually listen to what they say and stop being so defensive and trigger happy. even if we agree to disagree something enriching might be said. and maybe we can figure out what the anger is really about. make no mistake about it. the anger on both sides isn't just over a smile and the expectation of not getting a scowl in return.

i totally understand a lot of the issues a lot of women have re: smiling here. but i have to say i'd stop listening too if it were put to me in such a hostile way myself. its good to take your time and explain things to people . they listen better. i am reminding myself of that right now.


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## mossystate (Sep 22, 2008)

Super, I only skimmed this last post of yours, I admit. I have to say that perhaps you should understand what was being said by some women in this thread...and what was not.

You don't seem to be wanting to understand this. When I look around at the women in this thread who has voiced very strong ( and this is allowed...yes? ) opinions, I see women who laugh a lot...who are saucy and fun and are nice people. You might say you are not referring to people in this thread. 

Men are not being kept from this conversation. 

NOBODY IS SAYING SMILING IS NOT GOOD.*L* I laugh, because this has become simply.......nuts.


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## Tad (Sep 22, 2008)

I wonder if part of this is cultural, and by cultural I’m thinking more city versus country than anything else. 

That is, I spent a couple of years living in Paris, a city of close to ten million people in its greater metropolitan area at the time. It took a while to soak in, but I eventually realized that walking down a crowded street in the middle of Paris I was completely alone and anonymous. People there didn’t really see me at all. Which makes sense in a lot of ways when you think about it. When living in a big city, say you take a train into the city, walk through the train station to the subway, change lines on the subway, walk a couple of blocks to work, walk a couple of blocks at lunch to get some food, and then reverse all of that. You will pass by hundreds of people, in some cases maybe over a thousand. You just can’t interact with that many people, to stay sane you have to let them become background noise. To break into someone’s bubble and make them notice you becomes an act of rudeness.

To give a more practical example. In a store, say a music store, I want to get past someone in a kind of narrow aisle. In a big city I probably just approach kind of slowly, they’ll pull themselves to one side, I slide past, and carry on, without saying much of anything or maybe a muttered “excuse me,” and I don’t meet their eyes. In a smaller city I probably for sure say “excuse me, can I slip by?” In a small town I suspect the odds of conversation breaking out is substantial, but I admit I’ve not lived in a small town since I was a kid so I don’t remember it too well.

So just saying, depending on where you are from, meeting someone’s eye and smiling at them can be rude.


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## Ernest Nagel (Sep 22, 2008)

You know I've very rarely gotten an untoward or negative response to a compliment from women or men of any size. I tend to make overt, verbal compliments as I don't read or use facial expressions particularly well. I can recognize a blush or a moist eye though. I've heard "that made my day!" many times and "fuck off" exactly once. As I've said it's a calculated risk that I feel is well worth it. I get to make someone feel good, that makes me feel good. The off chance it will blow up on me is well warranted. 

It kinda reminds of that rumor going around a few years ago that we shouldn't flash our lights at cars driving with their lights off at night because they could be gang members looking for someone to shoot. Y'know what? Fuck it! They're at risk and I'm gonna try to help them or someone else who might not see them. The day fear keeps us from doing the most simple, decent things the asshats have won. I behave out of concern and respect for others until they do otherwise with me. That simple, benefit of a doubt. Basic social graces are necessary to maintain the fabric of society. :bow:


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## gildalive (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm not bitchy, and I'm not joyless. I'm careful. There's a difference, and I have my reasons for choosing to be that way. Maybe that isn't something everyone can understand, but it works for me.


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## Ernest Nagel (Sep 22, 2008)

gildalive said:


> I'm not bitchy, and I'm not joyless. I'm careful. There's a difference, and I have my reasons for choosing to be that way. Maybe that isn't something everyone can understand, but it works for me.



I don't think you should have to explain yourself, gilda. If someone offers a smile or a compliment expecting reciprocity or gratitude they're engaging in a strategy, not a kindness. We do the decent thing simply because we choose to, not for what it gains us. That's kinda what makes it decency, imo. You don't get a smile or a thank-you as expected? Fine, failed strategy. You do something with a good intention, no matter how it turns out you still feel OK about it. I know this has been addressed ad nauseam but it seems some people are still struggling with the concept. Trying to make a difference with no evidence it's possible is part of what redeems the human condition. Again, jmo.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 22, 2008)

imfree said:


> Hahaha!, GEF, I'm really not that paranoid:doh:. Sadly, most strangers
> don't seem to even make advances toward guys with oxygen tanks,
> It's a disability thing, I guess.



I was just teasing you Edgar  



Ernest Nagel said:


> I don't think you should have to explain yourself, gilda. *If someone offers a smile or a compliment expecting reciprocity or gratitude they're engaging in a strategy, not a kindness.* We do the decent thing simply because we choose to, not for what it gains us. That's kinda what makes it decency, imo. You don't get a smile or a thank-you as expected? Fine, failed strategy. *You do something with a good intention, no matter how it turns out you still feel OK about it.* I know this has been addressed ad nauseam but it seems some people are still struggling with the concept. Trying to make a difference with no evidence it's possible is part of what redeems the human condition. Again, jmo.



Thank you :bow:
That's the bottom line, isn't it? 

I never knew that a woman not feeling obligated to return a smile would victimize some man somewhere.....gawd we seem to have some overly-sensitive lads in this world :doh:

Sorry.........but I gotta go to the images now..... 

View attachment ADJMA23LDJNJCKVSBPC3INRUITHYUD23.jpeg


View attachment whine.jpg


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## imfree (Sep 22, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I was just teasing you Edgar
> ......................snipped.................................



That's what I was hoping for, GEF. I love good
natured teasing, but, DAMN!, some times it's
hard to tell teasing from serious in written text.:doh:
I know I've probably taken many dry-humored posts
seriously, myself.


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## Lovelyone (Sep 22, 2008)

I am smiling at everyone (but only cos the valium kicked in)...and offering them rollos. Does that make me weird? Probably..but I dont expect anyone to smile back or enjoy in the delicious chocolatey goodness with a scrumptious caramel center.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 22, 2008)

*snatches Terri's rollos and runs away cackling*


Happy enough for ya?


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## Lovelyone (Sep 22, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> *snatches Terri's rollos and runs away cackling*
> 
> 
> Happy enough for ya?


 
I probably should have told you that cackling gets me all hot and bothered.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 22, 2008)

Lovelyone said:


> I probably should have told you that cackling gets me all hot and bothered.



Oh my, what big...........rollos you have...... :batting:


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## Lovelyone (Sep 22, 2008)

the better to feed you with my dear....*bats eyelashes*


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 22, 2008)

What a time to be out of rep.........at least let me give you the emo kids popsicle........


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## Lovelyone (Sep 22, 2008)

I think its a conspiracy, cos I ran out of rep today, too. *Bribes Conrad with rollos.*


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 22, 2008)

Don't give Conrad the big ones......... :batting:


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## Lovelyone (Sep 22, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Don't give Conrad the big ones......... :batting:


 
Im a fat girl chocoholic, he's lucky I give him any at all.


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## southernfa (Sep 22, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> what if you were walking somewhere and you smiled at someone and they scowled back. how would it make you feel. i have seen people talk about how behavior like that hurt them here on these boards.



Once upon a time, when I was a young fella and just starting out, I offered my seat on a bus to a lady. Man, if looks could kill. That was not the right thing to do. So I turned, looked down the aisle and offered the seat to the other ladies standing in the aisle. She nailed them all too with a single glare! No one dared move.

So I sat down. 

Being young and callow, that really shook me and apart from putting me off public transport for life, it was a few years before what little natural courtesy I have reasserted itself and I reverted to instinctively holding doors open etc. These days I try to follow Earnest's example and do what I believe is the right thing without expectation of a response.

I have often wondered what her problem was, maybe she suffered from an advanced case of feminism, but whatever her issue, her behaviour was inappropriate, bullying and just plain rude.


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## olwen (Sep 22, 2008)

Aireman said:


> If ya can't see it I can't explain it. But, your doing it again.
> Why is it that those seeking acceptance; cant see their own prejudices.



Why indeed?



Jack Skellington said:


> What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
> 
> Sometimes I think some men (Im speaking in general terms here) just dont get women. They sometimes cant pick up on body language or misread it or they will read or hear something a woman has written or said and just cant really grasp it from the other perspective.
> 
> ...



Exactly.


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## superodalisque (Sep 22, 2008)

southernfa said:


> Once upon a time, when I was a young fella and just starting out, I offered my seat on a bus to a lady. Man, if looks could kill. That was not the right thing to do. So I turned, looked down the aisle and offered the seat to the other ladies standing in the aisle. She nailed them all too with a single glare! No one dared move.
> 
> So I sat down.
> 
> ...




yep, i could never understand that so-called feminism either. its the kind that resulted in men being afraid to hold doors but the women still haven't had a female president here or pay parity even though we comprise most of the vote. the effort went toward the wrong thing. it should have been more about attacking decreasing social deficits rather than attacking long standing social benefits. where was Naoimi Wolf when we needed her? that reminds me , i need to crack open The Beauty Myth and see how it jibes with acceptance. its been ten years since i read it and i wonder how my thoughts have changed.


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## southernfa (Sep 22, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> pay parody



Is that like salary satire? 

I don't know. We have a female Prime Minister, Chief Justice, Solicitor General (or it was and the current one is an old woman anyhow), Speaker of the House and until recently our Governor General (titular head of state) was also female. And have been for years.

Did it improve things? I don't know. We have a Ministry for Women's Affairs down here. I had coffee down in Wellington a few months ago with someone who had worked for that unit. She was a scarily competent lady and was of the opinion that in the face of cutbacks should the government change this year, they should be the first to get cut. 

So maybe not.

Male/Female/Schmale. It's the care people have for the person in front of them that counts. (IMHO)


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## superodalisque (Sep 22, 2008)

southernfa said:


> Is that like salary satire?
> 
> I don't know. We have a female Prime Minister, Chief Justice, Solicitor General (or it was and the current one is an old woman anyhow), Speaker of the House and until recently our Governor General (titular head of state) was also female. And have been for years.
> 
> ...



why whatever are you talking about?  

hehe thats what happens to you when you spend your days concentrating on the arts. it tries to sneak in everywhere. ty for catching that. 

yes but, the symbolic meaning of it will change the lives of women there forever--not to mention the girls. you can't understand what is does to you to know that the leader of your country is someone like you. i experienced black people running a country when i first went to ghana west africa, which was by no stretch of the imagination perfect. but just the fact that i saw first hand that it was occurring somewhere in the world gave me the confidence to really know and understand on a deep level that anything was possible for me. think of all of the girls who are getting that message now. think of all of the girls who are not getting that message here in the US of all places. thats something we should be deeply ashamed of. hey everybody has the right to screw things up. goodness knows people who've had access always have had that luxury. but people who have access also have been able to do great things. we'd just be doubling our chances of having great things occur.


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## olwen (Sep 22, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> I'm not saying that I think it's like, a HUGE deal if someone doesn't smile back at me..I don't make assumptions about their character or anything [i.e. bitchy], all I'm saying is that I think a lot of you are overreacting. Yes, it's possible that the person you're smiling at is having a bad day or doesn't want to be "bothered" (although I'm not sure when a simple smile really became such an unbearable burden) or that the person that is smiling at you doesn't have the best intentions. Yeah, it's POSSIBLE but what are the chances that the majority feel/are that way? I think it's a little absurd to take such ridiculous precations..don't smile at anyone because they MIGHT be having a bad day or don't want to be "bothered" and don't smile back at anyone because they MIGHT be thinking about raping you. I just think that's a little ridiculous. Honestly, I don't know where all of you guys live...but around here, it's pretty normal to smile at people or say a quick hello as they pass you by on the street or in a hallway.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You know what, I hadn't even thought of small town vs. big city culture. It's just plain street smart to watch your back, and keep to yourself, especially if you're in a neighborhood where glancing at someone, even if you don't mean anything by it can get you jumped or shot at. Likewise it makes sense to want to get to know strangers who pass thru a small town, where knowing who everyone is and being part of a community ensures your safety. 

So it kinda makes sense for someone who lives in a small community where you're used to a constant barrage of niceties to think it's rude to not smile back, while someone who lives in a huge city might be leary when strangers approach and proceed with caution.


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## mossystate (Sep 22, 2008)

southernfa said:


> I have often wondered what her problem was, maybe she suffered from an advanced case of feminism.



And the hits just keep coming. When in doubt of how to properly label the garden variety, rude, human female in your story.....snark on feminism.Bravo. Oy. But, to say this, it just makes me a bitter man basher. Eh,
have at it.


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## superodalisque (Sep 22, 2008)

mossystate said:


> And the hits just keep coming. When in doubt of how to properly label the garden variety, rude, human female in your story.....snark on feminism.Bravo. Oy. But, to say this, it just makes me a bitter man basher. Eh,
> have at it.



yes your kinda right about that, but he does have a point. we are all, all three of us, old enough to remember the little misguided actions of the seventies. as for being snarky about feminism or man bashing--get thee all to a knit pickery!


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## southernfa (Sep 22, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> why whatever are you talking about?
> 
> hehe thats what happens to you when you spend your days concentrating on the arts. it tries to sneak in everywhere. ty for catching that.


You're welcome! 


> you can't understand what is does to you to know that the leader of your country is someone like you.



Can't I?  I should have thought that as an archetypal middle-aged middle class white male I would have profiled very well with most western governments...

As it happens, having met a number of our politicians and even Prime Ministers over the years I can safely say that I have absolutely nothing in common with any of 'em! 

In fact, and my friends agree, the world would be a much better place if someone like us was running it. ("_If I ruled the world, every day would be the first day of spring..._"


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## superodalisque (Sep 22, 2008)

southernfa said:


> You're welcome!
> 
> Can't I?  I should have thought that as an archetypal middle-aged white male I would have profiled very well with most western governments...
> 
> As it happens, having met a number of our politicians and even Prime Ministers over the years I can safely say that I have absolutely nothing in common with any of 'em!




that is definitely something to be proud of!


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## olwen (Sep 22, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i know its hard. i don't always do as i would like either. i am not always the best person to people who try to be nice to me either. its usually because i'm run by fear rather than what i know to be true. but its kinda sad to be more willing to take people at their worst than their best. i know its sad when i'm in a situation when i do it--very. i've lost a lot because of it.
> 
> but having said all that, i think for me its trying to have some joy in your life. seeing through a glass darkly doesn't bring me that for sure. not having joy gives me sadness and regret. but i'm human and sometimes i can't help myself even when i wish i could.
> 
> ...



superO, I gotta say, I'm finding this post of yours to be a little, No, a lot patronizing and that's all I'm gonna say about that.

The men have not been held back from voicing their opinions. They've choosen to remain silent. No one is slapping their hands or bullying them into submission or accused them of out and out misogyny. Yet I have gotten a very clear signal from some that my experiences and my ability to exercise my free will are invalid at best and downright insane at most. 

I do believe I've explained my position in various ways with multiple illustrations, and I just can't explain it anymore, short of drawing diagrams. 

Clearly, you disagree. Eh. You are entitled to your opinions. We all are.

From now on when I choose to smile at people, assuming they're not out to get me, I'll think of this thread and I will make the bestest and most sincerest attempt to be saintly...but you know sometimes there's just no pleasing people. Someone might scowl at me and ruin my day.


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## southernfa (Sep 22, 2008)

mossystate said:


> And the hits just keep coming. When in doubt of how to properly label the garden variety, rude, human female in your story.....snark on feminism.Bravo. Oy. But, to say this, it just makes me a bitter man basher. Eh,
> have at it.



Oh, alright. I'll behave. Or at least I'll try. 
But for what it's worth, her attitude towards me may have been garden variety rude, her attitude to the other women seemed to imply something more. But I could be wrong.


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## Santaclear (Sep 22, 2008)

I knew a lot of over-the-top feminists in the '70s, yet I'm very glad for the strides feminism made in that era and since. What women "can" and "can't" do in 2008 is very different than it was then. Superodalisque, would you prefer to be paid less for your work than you are now, for example?

So any time I read or hear snark against feminism, SouthernFA, I think it's really just sour grapes.


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## Santaclear (Sep 22, 2008)

I always hug everyone on the bus each time I ride.


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## BigBeautifulMe (Sep 22, 2008)

I would just like to point out that I'm a smiler. I smile at everyone I pass on the street, and get smiles in return, usually. Sometimes I don't get a return smile. I don't think anything of it. I don't take it personally. And I especially don't decide there's something wrong with them because they didn't feel like returning that smile.

That is my point, and I think that has really gotten lost.


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## Fascinita (Sep 22, 2008)

All this talk about compulsory smiling has put me in an arty mood...

Therefore, bear witness to my song, full of mixed metaphors:

Smile, Sweetie
by Fascinita

"What would the smile be, without the frown?

What would the thespian be, without the clown?

Where there's a smile, says the wise old owl, the frown can't be far behind!

Where there's a wistful train conductor wearing a shy smile, there's a train bound straight for happiness and pain--will it go left or right, at the fork in the railroad?!

To sleep! Perhaps to dream! To smile! For the next 500 miles!

And, as buddhists say, 'in emptiness, there is no form, no feelings, no concepts, no mental formations, no consciousness; no eye, no ear, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind, no appearance, no sound, no smell, no taste, no touch, no mind object; no eye element up to no mind element and no mind consciousness element; no ignorance, no end of ignorance up to no old age and death, no end of old age and death; no suffering, no origin, no cessation, no path; no pristine awareness, no attainment, and no non-attainment.' 

And that, my friends, says it all (also, I wish you a happy Fall.)"

PS - Note that there is no ear and no nose, nor a mouth (presumably). Without ears or nose or mouth, will you join me in saying that smiles do not--cannot--exist?! It is to be hoped! Can you do any less?


Here is some serious art, for your enjoyment.


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## olwen (Sep 22, 2008)

edx said:


> I wonder if part of this is cultural, and by cultural Im thinking more city versus country than anything else.
> 
> That is, I spent a couple of years living in Paris, a city of close to ten million people in its greater metropolitan area at the time. It took a while to soak in, but I eventually realized that walking down a crowded street in the middle of Paris I was completely alone and anonymous. People there didnt really see me at all. Which makes sense in a lot of ways when you think about it. When living in a big city, say you take a train into the city, walk through the train station to the subway, change lines on the subway, walk a couple of blocks to work, walk a couple of blocks at lunch to get some food, and then reverse all of that. You will pass by hundreds of people, in some cases maybe over a thousand. You just cant interact with that many people, to stay sane you have to let them become background noise. To break into someones bubble and make them notice you becomes an act of rudeness.
> 
> ...



See, I'd say something a little different. Space in a city like mine is at a premium. I'd want and expect someone to say excuse me before passing by me so I can move aside. And I would be on guard if they approached slowly...normal walking speed is more, well, normal. I hate it too when I do say excuse me and someone doesn't move. Or if they say excuse me but then don't give me enough time to move out of the way. 

Some people don't do that, in fact some people are downright obnoxious about taking up more space than they need, like the average height guy who takes a seat on a crowded subway and then spreads his legs so wide that he takes up a seat on each side. Every time I see that I really wanna say "Dude, you're balls ain't that big. Close your legs." But, meh.

I noticed too when I worked retail that europeans feel comfortable with about 1 foot of space between you when they talk to you, whereas here we prefer about two feet. If I took a step back, they'd take a step forward. It took me a while to get used to that.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 22, 2008)

southernfa said:


> Once upon a time, when I was a young fella and just starting out, I offered my seat on a bus to a lady. Man, if looks could kill. That was not the right thing to do. So I turned, looked down the aisle and offered the seat to the other ladies standing in the aisle. She nailed them all too with a single glare! No one dared move.
> 
> So I sat down.
> 
> ...





mossystate said:


> And the hits just keep coming. When in doubt of how to properly label the garden variety, rude, human female in your story.....snark on feminism.Bravo. Oy. But, to say this, it just makes me a bitter man basher. Eh,
> have at it.





However...it IS a perfect example of what has been repeated in this thread over and over and over.....why are the simple actions of one person....or even several people... supposed to be representative of a whole sect of people? As in millions of people....and if one person does something you do not like, then they ALL must do it? 
That seems like a limited way to think of/ view things.......


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## southernfa (Sep 22, 2008)

Santaclear said:


> I knew a lot of over-the-top feminists in the '70s, yet I'm very glad for the strides feminism made in that era and since. What women "can" and "can't" do in 2008 is very different than it was then. Superodalisque, would you prefer to be paid less for your work than you are now, for example?
> 
> So any time I read or hear snark against feminism, SouthernFA, I think it's really just sour grapes.



OK, but it could also be someone who should know better yanking the chain. 

However, if, and I only ever said 'if' (or was it 'maybe') the woman on the bus was suffering from some socio-political idea that meant she had some sort of right to inflict her opinions on the rest of us (especially the sweet and innocent young man who offered her a seat!) in the way she did and if she thought that she was observing feminist principles in doing so then I would say that that idea of feminism is worth about as much as the chauvinism it sought to replace.

Catching the same bus every day as that lady for some time, I don't remember her as being an unpleasant person per se. But I could be wrong.


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## olwen (Sep 23, 2008)

I tell you what southernfa, if a man offers me a seat and there's enough room for me to sit down, I'm gonna sit my fat ass down. I hate to stand for long bus rides. 

I'm not even gonna speculate as to why she wouldn't take the seat or why she might have influenced the others not to take it either. It just won't end well.


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## superodalisque (Sep 23, 2008)

Santaclear said:


> I knew a lot of over-the-top feminists in the '70s, yet I'm very glad for the strides feminism made in that era and since. What women "can" and "can't" do in 2008 is very different than it was then. Superodalisque, would you prefer to be paid less for your work than you are now, for example?
> 
> So any time I read or hear snark against feminism, SouthernFA, I think it's really just sour grapes.



i was very much alive and politically aware and even active in the seventies. i know exactly what has changed. i also know what hasn't. i'm not antifeminist. i'm anti empty feminism that assumes that every man is out to get them when he does something simple meant out of kindness. 

we still don't have pay parity. most women still live in poverty WITH their children. i think that part of the reason (definitely not overshadowing the opposition but they would have been there no matter what) for that is because so much energy was spent on how one went thru a door or under what situtation we sat. we got bogged down in the little stupid stuff. it turned away other women who were feminists but more moderate who could have given power to the movement with their numbers. they even marginalized a lot of black women who inspired the movement in the first place with their involvement in civil rights. thats why even today NOW has a very small number of black women--because they haven't been forgiven for the past. the radicals chose extreme ideals over being practical. so because they marginalized a lot of people including many sympathetic men the equal rights amendment lost its push and still hasn't been passed today.

noticing ants over elephants didn't get us as far as we could have gone otherwise. all feminists got painted with the same radical brush by those who opposed them and became a laughable stereotype ,inspired by the extremists, to most people that still stands today. most women are feminists. most of us don't disagree with most of the issues. tg there were women who were more focused on the right to chose etc... thanks to them we did make gains. i am a feminist. but i'm one who likes to get things done, understand people, and have real power based on real and concrete rights rather than some nebulous abstract ideal that may or may not have a basis in fact. while other people are calculating the social-psycho deficit or benefit of a seat on a bus being GIVEN to them instead of denied them i'd rather make sure we are paid equally and not just better and our children are fed housed and schooled properly. i rather build a consensus that benefits us rather than create unnecessary negativity so that we can get things accomplished.


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## Fascinita (Sep 23, 2008)

In this conversation, 

FEMINISM

=







The issue at heart here has nothing to do with how many angry womyn growled at a young Australian thiry years ago.


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## mossystate (Sep 23, 2008)

We keep paying for it.

I really...and I am completely fucking serious about it...I really am glad I know what kind of person I am. If I didn't, getting called a chip-on-the-shoulder-man hater could really mess with my head.


I think about all the women who are afraid to say what they want to say, because they will get labeled. Needing to talk about stuff that is about as far from hatred as you can get, at least for the listener who is willing to be open . Stuff about their experiences. I see out here how I am told that certain in the closet types of FA's need to feel safe to discuss what is in their hearts...their souls....their experiences.



I see how it is....for some. I will say one other thing. Those who do not feel a need to try and put ' me ' in a corner...clone yourselves.


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 23, 2008)

olwen said:


> You know what, I hadn't even thought of small town vs. big city culture. It's just plain street smart to watch your back, and keep to yourself, especially if you're in a neighborhood where glancing at someone, even if you don't mean anything by it can get you jumped or shot at. Likewise it makes sense to want to get to know strangers who pass thru a small town, where knowing who everyone is and being part of a community ensures your safety.
> 
> So it kinda makes sense for someone who lives in a small community where you're used to a constant barrage of niceties to think it's rude to not smile back, while someone who lives in a huge city might be leary when strangers approach and proceed with caution.



Yeah, honestly, I didn't think of that either. I mean, I'm not in a really small town or anything..but I do live in suburbia, and I always have. It's not like everyone walks around just smiling and talking to every single person like they do in real country communities..but people do tend to smile or say hello in certain situations, like if you're walking down the street and you both happen to glance at each other, usually people will smile or say hello to each other or like, if you're in line at the grocery store together, people tend to say hello or strike up a conversation. Like I said, it's not really "small town" in that everyone knows each other...but it's not really the city either. I go down to the city sometimes [Rochester] and I've never particularly noticed that people WEREN'T smiling at each other..but whenever I'm down there it's for a certain purpose, like going to a concert or a coffee shop where a large number of people congregate, including lots of other people from suburbia so the atmosphere is probably different than it would be if I was just walking down the a city street or something.


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## southernfa (Sep 23, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> The issue at heart here has nothing to do with how many angry womyn growled at a young Australian thiry years ago.



Excuse me, EXCUSE ME? "Australian"!?!? 

Now that is offensive!


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## Fascinita (Sep 23, 2008)

southernfa said:


> Excuse me, EXCUSE ME? "Australian"!?!?
> 
> Now that is offensive!



lol

Yes, I see. That was my bad. 

I meant to say, "a young _New Jerseyan_."


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## southernfa (Sep 23, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> However...it IS a perfect example of what has been repeated in this thread over and over and over.....why are the simple actions of one person....or even several people... supposed to be representative of a whole sect of people? As in millions of people....and if one person does something you do not like, then they ALL must do it?
> That seems like a limited way to think of/ view things.......



Good point. And I was dragging my chain, I admit it.

I think there are a couple of interesting points here. If I had said, for instance, "a rabid case of Republicanism", how many conservatives would have got bent out of shape because they felt I was deriding their noble cause on account of one basket case? Yet the statement was essentially the same; a specific case of a political perspective taken to an unreasonable extreme.

Does one bad apple spoil the whole barrel?
Obviously, in this case a lot of people will say no. Conversely, we can also consider that this old saying is based on common sense and that again is based on something that we humans do very well; pattern recognition. A huge part of how we think can be described as recognising patterns and matching one to another.

Thus if I say "rapid republican" or (dare I do it twice...) "advanced case of feminism" it will result in all sorts of thought associations for all sorts of people. Some involving wax dolls and pins no doubt.

Is this limited thinking? I guess the associations are limited by our education, experiences, prejudices and so forth. But I suspect that the actual process is more fundamental than limited.


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## Tina (Sep 23, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i was very much alive and politically aware and even active in the seventies. i know exactly what has changed. i also know what hasn't. i'm not antifeminist. i'm anti empty feminism that assumes that every man is out to get them when he does something simple meant out of kindness.


Felicia, I think that when it comes to any kind of radical change, often the pendulum swings way over to the opposite side before it comes to rest somewhere in the middle. I think the whole "I can open the door myself!" was part of that. And I would also like to say that not all feminists felt that way, just some. But of course, the media has always focused on the fantastic and will report on such things before reporting about more moderate positions. It's always been so, particularly since the first days of yellow journalism.



> we still don't have pay parity. most women still live in poverty WITH their children. i think that part of the reason (definitely not overshadowing the opposition but they would have been there no matter what) for that is because so much energy was spent on how one went thru a door or under what situtation we sat. we got bogged down in the little stupid stuff. it turned away other women who were feminists but more moderate who could have given power to the movement with their numbers.


I think that when the equal rights bill failed a lot of feminists floundered. Instead of being more resolute than ever, a lot of feminist women felt defeated. 



> they even marginalized a lot of black women who inspired the movement in the first place with their involvement in civil rights. thats why even today NOW has a very small number of black women--because they haven't been forgiven for the past. the radicals chose extreme ideals over being practical. so because they marginalized a lot of people including many sympathetic men the equal rights amendment lost its push and still hasn't been passed today.


I think that's partly why a lot of black feminists call themselves womanists.

A lot of activists end up burning out or losing focus. It's what happened, in a way, to NAAFA, too. I think the focus shifted at some point and it lost its steam, and then radicals took over and there you go. And within feminism there are a number of factions, which whittles down the power base to a degree. Infighting never helps a cause. I don't at all believe it's a lost cause, nor do I feel that way with feminism, but I think the lack of proper focus has hurt the movement, so obviously I agree with you.

As for the original subject, I tend to mostly be the friendly sort. I like being on good terms with my neighbors, at least saying "hello". I tend to return smiles, and often will say "hello" to a stranger as we pass. But yes, I'm more careful in, say, Montreal than here where we live, which is a much smaller city. But I can't tell you how many times (and often on feminist boards, but not always) women have related stories about men telling them to smile. We can feel like a smile is a little thing, and so why not do it? But if a person isn't in the mood, they shouldn't be made to feel like they _have_ to do it, or if they are thus and such simply because they don't.


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## Fascinita (Sep 23, 2008)

southernfa said:


> Good point. And I was dragging my chain, I admit it.
> 
> I think there are a couple of interesting points here. If I had said, for instance, "a rabid case of Republicanism", how many conservatives would have got bent out of shape because they felt I was deriding their noble cause on account of one basket case?



In a website with thousands of members, four or five objected to your characterization of the rabid feminist. Four or five Republicans might've objected to an equivalent comment about conservatives.

I don't see why you'd make a big deal out of a few feminists putting in their two cents. Would you make a big deal (and tell us the story of that rude Republican who once glowered at you after you'd urged him to vote Democratic) if it were not women in question?

I think feminists should have just as much freedom to express their political views as anyone else, without having to play nice for anyone.

In any case, the issue of feminism gone awry is being conflated here with a more basic issue of, "Do I owe you a smile just because you say so, and what the heck makes you think that?"


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## southernfa (Sep 23, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> In a website with thousands of members, four or five objected to your characterization of the rabid feminist. Four or five Republicans might've objected to an equivalent comment about conservatives.


Quite true but 4-5 objectors in a thread with a couple of dozen respondents is quite a different proportion and puts a more significant weighting on the conversation.


> I don't see why you'd make a big deal out of a few feminists putting in their two cents. Would you make a big deal (and tell us the story of that rude Republican who once glowered at you after you'd urged him to vote Democratic) if it were not women in question?
> 
> I think feminists should have just as much freedom to express their political views as anyone else, without having to play nice for anyone.
> 
> In any case, the issue of feminism gone awry is being conflated here with a more basic issue of, "Do I owe you a smile just because you say so, and what the heck makes you think that?"



Well, I'm genuinely sorry if I present as making a big deal. That was not my intention. I'm just kicking around some ideas. It was mildly inflammatory to use the "F" word in that way and I have no problem with receiving the reaction I got (inside every grown man there is a small boy that LOVES fireworks). 

I could recount any number of instances of men I have encountered behaving like asses. "Man bites dog is news..." and observing the status quo is not the same thing as accepting it is satisfactory. But right from the original post, that wasn't the topic. Was it?!?

I guess the point I have been trying obliquely (and I think without wanting to put words in her mouth this was Superodalisque's theme as well) to make is encapsulated in reverse in your two last sentences; people, including feminists, women and even Republicans (although that is stretching the definition) shouldn't play nice or smile because they "have" to but because they "choose" to, despite how they may be feeling internally.

That may be a stretch of the imagination for some but it is a discipline I personally try to live up to.


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## Fascinita (Sep 23, 2008)

southernfa said:


> women and even Republicans (although that is stretching the definition) shouldn't play nice or smile because they "have" to but because they "choose" to, despite how they may be feeling internally.



I don't disagree with this. But when was the last time you walked past someone only to be jeered at with a "You should smile more" or "Lighten up, honey" comment?


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## southernfa (Sep 23, 2008)

olwen said:


> I tell you what southernfa, if a man offers me a seat and there's enough room for me to sit down, I'm gonna sit my fat ass down. I hate to stand for long bus rides.



Ma'am, that's nearly enough to make me go out and find a bus right now...


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## southernfa (Sep 23, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> I don't disagree with this. But when was the last time you walked past someone only to be jeered at with a "You should smile more" or "Lighten up, honey" comment?



Umm, married man here. If only all the useful tips for much needed self-improvement were that gentle...


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 23, 2008)

southernfa said:


> Umm, married man here. If only all the useful tips for much needed self-improvement were that gentle...



I was angry a lot of the time while I was still married, too. Okay I forgive you


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## olwen (Sep 23, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> I don't disagree with this. But when was the last time you walked past someone only to be jeered at with a "You should smile more" or "Lighten up, honey" comment?



That actually used to happen to me a lot. Not so much any more, but whenever it did, it would just piss me off. I could have been thinking about laundry or groceries or something else mundane. It happened enough for me to go around asking my friends if I looked like I was frowning all the time. They always said no. I would wonder why those smile wranglers wouldn't just try to engage me in conversation and actually ask me if anything was wrong instead of just issuing a random command...


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## Johnny718Bravo (Sep 23, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> See, I did not even see this from a gender frame of reference, I read it from an FA frame of reference. I was not even thinking about gender.
> 
> We FAs can be frustrated A's (admirers). I'm not comparing the experience of being a fat person in a thin world with being an FA, but again, consider the experience of the FA.
> 
> ...



YES! THANK YOU!!!


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## mossystate (Sep 23, 2008)

The first conclusion was discarded. It was the one stating that perhaps she was not attracted to you.

The second and third conclusions are the only ones you think are possible.
They were..she was an insecure fat woman..and..she was cocky.


*" If smiling at someone that looks good is a crime, give me life in prison! "*


Now, tell me again how this whole thing is/was not *all* about you being pissed off at being rejected. 

There is a very,...very...valid discussion to be had about personal boundaries..kindness..creepy behavior...nice behavior...taking a compliment...giving real compliments....reactions to reactions...labeling people who do not want to act the way someone else demands they act....etc..etc..

This was a garden variety not liking that you did not get a desired reaction. If this happens a lot to you, you might...might...want to consider it's not always about the other person. Or, it is about the other person and it has nothing to do with the limited number of conclusions you will bother to consider. I know it is easier to basically call someone an insecure bitch...but...ummmm...you want to one day get better results...yes?...no?...? 


yeah...I know I am once again talking to the wind and I know another post is pointless...hehe


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## superodalisque (Sep 24, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> In any case, the issue of feminism gone awry is being conflated here with a more basic issue of, "Do I owe you a smile just because you say so, and what the heck makes you think that?"



*he never said he was OWED a smile*. he only said he was taken aback that she actually frowned at someone trying to flirt. and then the argument became that somehow a woman's right to be herself was taken away because she was expected by him to behave with some kind of decorum. i don't think your rights are taken away just because somene expects that the other people they come in contact with not be rude. the country city rule doesn't fly with me either. i go to NY a lot to see relatives etc... they respond just like other human beings do to kindness and patience. sometimes moreso because they don't get it that often. the wall is articficial. 911 taught them that and so did the brownout. for the most part. strangers went to great lengths to do somethig good for each other even there.

a guy approached me in the store last week. i wasn't interested in him. but he was being very polite and authentic. he was sweet enough to say that he thought i looked like Jill Scott--not too shabby huh? i wasn't feeling too good at the time but i realized that he was trying very hard to be polite and nice. he never said anything rude. never made known any rude intentions. so i basically told him "thank you, you've made my day". he went out of his way to be nice so i tried to return the favor even though i wasn't interested. when he tried to go further i told him i was sorry but i really had to go. and i got in my car and left. no big deal. he knew i was not interested i'm sure. but i didn't have to hammer him into the ground to let him know that. *i'm not suggesting anyone go as far as i did. maybe just NOT scowling. not being totally negative would be called taking a compliment.*

i think its less about being men and women and more about being human. people do have both their good and bad sides. i chose to appeal to the good side because thats the side i prefer to deal with. and, the vast majority of people are very happy to be able to show that side of themselves to you if you'll let them.

PS: no one can put anything into the hand that is a clenched fist


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## Ichida (Sep 24, 2008)

As a kid i was roundly abused by boys and peers, even tho i wasn't chubby or ugly. Just wasn't confident. After highschool I began to get many guys looking my way. I get flirted with and catcalled and whistled at all the time. And i'm not saying it's cuz im all that LOL!!! Friends and family tell me its because I radiate a friendly confidence. I smile at people even if they havn't initiated it. 

A friend of mine was very flustered when I was wearing a low cut top. He is 45. I am 21. He finally leaned forward, beet red, and said "I am so sorry, I hope you aren't offended, but....they are very nice!" and I laughed my ass off! After he knew it was ok he relaxed and we moved on with the day.

The only time I don't smile is if I am thinking or distracted - a guy could smile right at me and I might not notice. So her dirty look might have been to someone over your shoulder, or she might not have been looking "AT" you at all.

I LOVE when a guy winks at me or calls me hey beautiful. If they get too forward I hold up a hand and say hey, not before my coffee hun, I can't keep up with ya! Or something similar. I am actually sick today. I went to the gas station in my pjs and a guy said "You look gorgeous" and I might have given him a bit of a dirty look...cuz i hadn't even brushed my hair and my eyes n nose were red. If we feel like shit we tend to take a smile or compliments as sarcasm...


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## Ichida (Sep 24, 2008)

mossystate said:


> Now, tell me again how this whole thing is/was not *all* about you being pissed off at being rejected.
> 
> This was a garden variety not liking that you did not get a desired reaction. If this happens a lot to you, you might...might...want to consider it's not always about the other person. Or, it is about the other person and it has nothing to do with the limited number of conclusions you will bother to consider. I know it is easier to basically call someone an insecure bitch...but...ummmm...you want to one day get better results...yes?...no?...?



I have to say I find that comment a little offensive.

There are ways to say no, not interested, or im having a bad day without being rude or nasty to a person who is trying to be friendly. Being rejected is never fun, and of course we get pissed and post for support! Being rejected repeatedly hurts enough without coming to a forum where we look for support ony to have comments saying maybe its not them its YOU. 

You don't have to be a happy happy person but to treat someone else with a frown, scorn or derision simply because you can't be bothered to pull the sides of your lips back in a fractional smile of aknowledgement is poor taste.


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## Johnny718Bravo (Sep 24, 2008)

Well, I've learned that if you smile at someone and/or give them a compliment, they'll either accept it...or not. Either way, you extended the courtesy. And nobody broke the law.

Good night All :-D


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## Fascinita (Sep 24, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> *he never said he was OWED a smile*. he only said he was taken aback that she actually frowned at someone trying to flirt. and then the argument became that somehow a woman's right to be herself was taken away because she was expected by him to behave with some kind of decorum. i don't think your rights are taken away just because somene expects that the other people they come in contact with not be rude. the country city rule doesn't fly with me either. i go to NY a lot to see relatives etc... they respond just like other human beings do to kindness and patience. sometimes moreso because they don't get it that often. the wall is articficial. 911 taught them that and so did the brownout. for the most part. strangers went to great lengths to do somethig good for each other even there.
> 
> a guy approached me in the store last week. i wasn't interested in him. but he was being very polite and authentic. he was sweet enough to say that he thought i looked like Jill Scott--not too shabby huh? i wasn't feeling too good at the time but i realized that he was trying very hard to be polite and nice. he never said anything rude. never made known any rude intentions. so i basically told him "thank you, you've made my day". he went out of his way to be nice so i tried to return the favor even though i wasn't interested. when he tried to go further i told him i was sorry but i really had to go. and i got in my car and left. no big deal. he knew i was not interested i'm sure. but i didn't have to hammer him into the ground to let him know that. *i'm not suggesting anyone go as far as i did. maybe just NOT scowling. not being totally negative would be called taking a compliment.*
> 
> ...



No matter how much hectoring you throw at it, you still can't make me smile if I don't want to. Obviously that idea is very offensive to you. And that's the problem. Just because you think it's preferable to put a polite face on things, doesn't mean that I have to agree with you. 

Nor does my not wanting to smile mean that I am a sour puss who can't take a compliment. Nor do we need to bend over backwards to bring in rhetorical acrobatics referencing geopolitical events to bear on the simple truth of personal freedom to smile when and how I see fit. All it means, to the objective observer, is that at that moment, for any number of possible reasons, I chose not to smile.


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## mossystate (Sep 24, 2008)

Ichida said:


> I have to say I find that comment a little offensive.
> 
> There are ways to say no, not interested, or im having a bad day without being rude or nasty to a person who is trying to be friendly. Being rejected is never fun, and of course we get pissed and post for support! Being rejected repeatedly hurts enough without coming to a forum where we look for support ony to have comments saying maybe its not them its YOU.
> 
> You don't have to be a happy happy person but to treat someone else with a frown, scorn or derision simply because you can't be bothered to pull the sides of your lips back in a fractional smile of aknowledgement is poor taste.




So, only the _attractive_ fat women the OP smiles at should come under any kind of scrutiny. This was, from the beginning, SO not about simple, common courtesy. I guess you prefer to beat that one drum. Sorry. Just because someone happens to post on Dimensions does not mean they get 24/7 ' support ', no matter what they themselves are putting on the table. *Support is a two-way street*. Other points of views expressed in this thread are valid. I was not rude to the OP.


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## gildalive (Sep 25, 2008)

It seems like you guys expect everyone to deal with situations the same way that you would. But everyone's different, so how is that possible? You're sort of saying, "I smile even when I don't want to, so everyone else should too or they're rude."

You know, I don't know Johnny from a hole in the ground, and I imagine his intentions were good. But I just don't think that the bad lady who scowled at him scarred him for life. And honestly, Johnny, would you rather have had her give you a fake smile?


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## Johnny718Bravo (Sep 25, 2008)

mossystate said:


> ...I was not rude to the OP.



Could've fooled me.



gildalive said:


> ...You know, I don't know Johnny from a hole in the ground, and I imagine his intentions were good. But I just don't think that the bad lady who scowled at him scarred him for life. And honestly, Johnny, would you rather have had her give you a fake smile?



Yeah she didn't scar me for life, I was just taken aback by her response. Also, fake smiles are worse than a good number of verbal insults. 

Is it Friday yet?!?


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## gildalive (Sep 25, 2008)

Johnny718Bravo said:


> Could've fooled me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Tomorrow, babe, tomorrow. I can't wait either!


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## fatgirlflyin (Sep 25, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> No matter how much hectoring you throw at it, you still can't make me smile if I don't want to. Obviously that idea is very offensive to you. And that's the problem. Just because you think it's preferable to put a polite face on things, doesn't mean that I have to agree with you.
> 
> Nor does my not wanting to smile mean that I am a sour puss who can't take a compliment. Nor do we need to bend over backwards to bring in rhetorical acrobatics referencing geopolitical events to bear on the simple truth of personal freedom to smile when and how I see fit. All it means, to the objective observer, is that at that moment, for any number of possible reasons, I chose not to smile.





Question.

If someone smiles at you and you see it, do you just not acknowlege the person at all if you don't feel like smiling back?

I kinda see someone smiling at me the same as someone saying hello. I wouldn't feel right about not acknowledging their existance.


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## Fascinita (Sep 25, 2008)

Ella Bella said:


> Question.
> 
> If someone smiles at you and you see it, do you just not acknowlege the person at all if you don't feel like smiling back?
> 
> I kinda see someone smiling at me the same as someone saying hello. I wouldn't feel right about not acknowledging their existance.



Ella, I can't make a blanket statement on what I do on every occasion. Sometimes I feel polite, and sometimes I have other things on my mind. It's not a measure of my character, the fact that sometimes I don't smile back.

I'm sure that if all of us stop to ask ourselves whether we've ever failed to return a casual smile, we'll see that it's only human to forget our manners on occasion. Does this make one a malcontent? A sour-puss? An ungracious, timid headcase? 

Anyone who says he's never failed to be polite when he could've been is kidding himself, straight up.


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## fatgirlflyin (Sep 25, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Ella, I can't make a blanket statement on what I do on every occasion. Sometimes I feel polite, and sometimes I have other things on my mind. It's not a measure of my character, the fact that sometimes I don't smile back.
> 
> I'm sure that if all of us stop to ask ourselves whether we've ever failed to return a casual smile, we'll see that it's only human to forget our manners on occasion. Does this make one a malcontent? A sour-puss? An ungracious, timid headcase?
> 
> Anyone who says he's never failed to be polite when he could've been is kidding himself, straight up.



nope I didn't say it made you any of those things or that it would be a way to judge your character, and I'd be the first to admit that I don't always smile back. Sometimes I even give a tight lipped yeah I see ya smiling but please don't come over here and talk to me smile. Which I guess could be considered worse than not smiling.


Its interesting to me the many directions this thread has taken.


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## Fascinita (Sep 25, 2008)

Ella Bella said:


> nope I didn't say it made you any of those things or that it would be a way to judge your character, and I'd be the first to admit that I don't always smile back. Sometimes I even give a tight lipped yeah I see ya smiling but please don't come over here and talk to me smile. Which I guess could be considered worse than not smiling.



Well, I know you didn't say that.  I mean, I was addressing the hypothesis that if you don't smile, it somehow means you have a problem of self-esteem, which is what the OP proposed. That's what I've always been addressing. (I try to be careful that I don't put words in people's mouths, so to speak. And when I do, I happily apologize. So, no, it wasn't about your having said that. :bow

In terms of feeling bad about it when I don't smile at someone, on occasion I'll wonder if I haven't been too brusque, sure. I mean, in general, I believe in the Golden Rule and try to be as kind as I can be--failing miserably many more times than I probably even know, I'm sure. But I don't like the idea of compulsory niceness. And I *really don't like the idea that if I don't smile at someone, it must mean I have a problem.


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## olwen (Sep 25, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Well, I know you didn't say that.  I mean, I was addressing the hypothesis that if you don't smile, it somehow means you have a problem of self-esteem, which is what the OP proposed. That's what I've always been addressing. (I try to be careful that I don't put words in people's mouths, so to speak. And when I do, I happily apologize. So, no, it wasn't about your having said that. :bow
> 
> In terms of feeling bad about it when I don't smile at someone, on occasion I'll wonder if I haven't been too brusque, sure. I mean, in general, I believe in the Golden Rule and try to be as kind as I can be--failing miserably many more times than I probably even know, I'm sure. But I don't like the idea of compulsory niceness. And I *really don't like the idea that if I don't smile at someone, it must mean I have a problem.



I agree. 








You know what they say...kill em with kindness.


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## squidgemonster (Sep 26, 2008)

Ernest Nagel said:


> You know I've very rarely gotten an untoward or negative response to a compliment from women or men of any size. I tend to make overt, verbal compliments as I don't read or use facial expressions particularly well. I can recognize a blush or a moist eye though. I've heard "that made my day!" many times and "fuck off" exactly once. As I've said it's a calculated risk that I feel is well worth it. I get to make someone feel good, that makes me feel good. The off chance it will blow up on me is well warranted.
> 
> It kinda reminds of that rumor going around a few years ago that we shouldn't flash our lights at cars driving with their lights off at night because they could be gang members looking for someone to shoot. Y'know what? Fuck it! They're at risk and I'm gonna try to help them or someone else who might not see them. The day fear keeps us from doing the most simple, decent things the asshats have won. I behave out of concern and respect for others until they do otherwise with me. That simple, benefit of a doubt. Basic social graces are necessary to maintain the fabric of society. :bow:



Very well said,as long as you choose your words carefully,I would never want to offend a BBW/SSBBW in the street,like I have said once before,it worked once for me with a very elegant BBW in 1994,and I eventually secured a date,
not that it would work for everyone,and yes ,I do understand that some ladies would be having a bad day,often body language gives that away and certainly some are totally unapproachable,I say choose your intended target carefully and be polite (cor,youre a sexy babe,will not do !)
If you get a negative response,dont persist,beat a hasty retreat ...


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## Ernest Nagel (Sep 26, 2008)

squidgemonster said:


> Very well said,as long as you choose your words carefully,I would never want to *offend* a BBW/SSBBW in the street,like I have said once before,it *worked* once for me with a very elegant BBW in 1994,and I eventually secured a date,
> not that it would *work* for everyone,and yes ,I do understand that some ladies would be having a bad day,often body language gives that away and certainly some are totally unapproachable,I say choose your intended *target* carefully and be polite (cor,youre a sexy babe,will not do !)
> If you get *a negative response*,dont persist,beat a hasty retreat ...



I get your point SM but I'm gonna take exception to a couple of things that are arguably semantic. I do, in fact, try to always choose my words _very_ carefully in all things. I'm a mathematician and constantly frustrated by the imprecision of English. Still, no excuse not to give it our best effort and attention, eh?

First, that someone has _taken offense_ or given a _negative response_ is entirely your interpretation. She/he reacted however they reacted. Maybe it wasn't what you anticipated but whatever it was is neither your privilege nor right to assume. Pretending that we know what someone else is thinking causes a good share of the worlds problems. That they did not fall all over you, scowled, whatever, anything short of physically assaulting you is not really yours to assign meaning. 

Compliments and courtesies are not judged by whether they _work_ anymore than art can be judged by what someone will pay for it. They are sincere, authentic expressions of decency; not a recipe or a blueprint with a specific acceptable outcome. An authentic compliment/acknowledgment doesn't need to worry about picking and choosing _targets_. You wanna be a hunter, go hunt! Just don't fault the _target_ when _you_ miss.

I realize this is almost completely redundant of another post of mine from a few pages back but since you addressed this post I felt obliged to reply. Nothing personal SM; you seem like a good guy. A lot of people still seem to be missing some fun_duh_mentals here. JMO :bow:


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## squidgemonster (Sep 28, 2008)

Ernest Nagel said:


> I get your point SM but I'm gonna take exception to a couple of things that are arguably semantic. I do, in fact, try to always choose my words _very_ carefully in all things. I'm a mathematician and constantly frustrated by the imprecision of English. Still, no excuse not to give it our best effort and attention, eh?
> 
> First, that someone has _taken offense_ or given a _negative response_ is entirely your interpretation. She/he reacted however they reacted. Maybe it wasn't what you anticipated but whatever it was is neither your privilege nor right to assume. Pretending that we know what someone else is thinking causes a good share of the worlds problems. That they did not fall all over you, scowled, whatever, anything short of physically assaulting you is not really yours to assign meaning.
> 
> ...



Thank you Ernest,your comments have been noted,and largely agreed with.
However this thread is starting to make me a little uneasy and as far as Im concerned I will be making no further posts here.


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## Keb (Sep 29, 2008)

Kind of a tangent, but:

Yesterday, I was at a Renn faire, all dressed up with as much cleavage as I can manage in my pretty corset, etc etc. And I got a few compliments, lots of hugs from my friends, and so on. Well, there was a group of guys hanging out on the benches in a quiet part of the faire, and as we passed, one of the guys called out to me. He pointed to another one of the guys, who was kind of curled up on the bench with his head in his hands, as if he was either very sleepy or drunk (the latter being quite possible). "Hey, we've got a guy for you," the one who'd called out said, laughing. 

I just smiled and said he looked tired to me, and went on my merry way--with my brother and his best friend, who were my companions.

They had no way of knowing I wasn't attached to either of the gentlemen with me, so I think I should be insulted that they assumed I wasn't. I just felt sorry for their tired/drunk friend, who was clearly being teased. 

And the heck of it is, this has happened to me a lot, and I never know what the proper response is, because I know I'm being used a) as a joke, and b) in order to tease the friend of whoever it is thinks this is a funny joke. 

I realize this isn't quite the same thing as the topic here--it would've been different if the guy himself were saying something, instead of being mocked--but it's related. When you've been treated as a joke since junior high...it's hard to expect someone would be seriously interested.


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## Ernest Nagel (Sep 29, 2008)

Keb said:


> Kind of a tangent, but:
> 
> Yesterday, I was at a Renn faire, all dressed up with as much cleavage as I can manage in my pretty corset, etc etc. And I got a few compliments, lots of hugs from my friends, and so on. Well, there was a group of guys hanging out on the benches in a quiet part of the faire, and as we passed, one of the guys called out to me. He pointed to another one of the guys, who was kind of curled up on the bench with his head in his hands, as if he was either very sleepy or drunk (the latter being quite possible). "Hey, we've got a guy for you," the one who'd called out said, laughing.
> 
> ...



Sorry about the asshats, Keb. You might try something like "I doubt he''d be man enough for me." Anything impugning their virility is good. Dimwits generally have very fragile egos. Or better yet, just ignore them. Confident, smart, beautiful women shouldn't be bothered with talking to morons. 

And please post pix of the RennFaire outfit!


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## BigBeautifulMe (Sep 29, 2008)

Great post, Keb. That happened to me ALL THE TIME in high school - I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. Sorry that happened to you. Ernest's right - next time look one of 'em up and down and say "Sorry. I only date men whose penises AREN'T microscopic." Or something even better. lol.


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## olwen (Sep 29, 2008)

Keb said:


> Kind of a tangent, but:
> 
> Yesterday, I was at a Renn faire, all dressed up with as much cleavage as I can manage in my pretty corset, etc etc. And I got a few compliments, lots of hugs from my friends, and so on. Well, there was a group of guys hanging out on the benches in a quiet part of the faire, and as we passed, one of the guys called out to me. He pointed to another one of the guys, who was kind of curled up on the bench with his head in his hands, as if he was either very sleepy or drunk (the latter being quite possible). "Hey, we've got a guy for you," the one who'd called out said, laughing.
> 
> ...



Keb, I think this has everything to do with the topic here. If that's kind of thing happens alot then you're reaction makes sense. Any guy who was seriously interested wouldn't approach you that way at all. And you know, you can approach guys you're interested in too.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 29, 2008)

Ernest Nagel said:


> Sorry about the asshats, Keb. You might try something like "I doubt he''d be man enough for me." Anything impugning their virility is good. Dimwits generally have very fragile egos. Or better yet, just ignore them. Confident, smart, beautiful women shouldn't be bothered with talking to morons.
> 
> And *please post pix of the RennFaire outfit!*




I would love to see it, too


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## LivingCanvas (Sep 29, 2008)

When it comes to random looks, I tend to be in my own little world and don't even notice.

Or, I just assume that they're looking at my tattoos/piercings. For example, I can't ever get weirded out by someone staring at my chest since I decided to put a huge tattoo that goes from shoulder to shoulder.

But when it comes to actual spoken compliments, I'm horrible at taking compliments. I'll either try and laugh it off while saying "thanks" or just stare at them like a deer caught in headlights.

Some of that is because flirtation just seems so unnatural to me. I can never tell if someone is casually flirting or even blatantly flirting with me. Some of that is also because my self-esteem isn't the highest. (Thank you, Mr. Abusive Ex-Boyfriend.)

It's something that I need to work on. I'm getting there one step at a time.


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## Ichida (Sep 29, 2008)

gildalive said:


> It seems like you guys expect everyone to deal with situations the same way that you would. But everyone's different, so how is that possible? You're sort of saying, "I smile even when I don't want to, so everyone else should too or they're rude."



Good point!


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## Keb (Sep 29, 2008)

Ernest Nagel said:


> Sorry about the asshats, Keb. You might try something like "I doubt he''d be man enough for me." Anything impugning their virility is good. Dimwits generally have very fragile egos. Or better yet, just ignore them. Confident, smart, beautiful women shouldn't be bothered with talking to morons.
> 
> And please post pix of the RennFaire outfit!



I didn't get any pics yesterday--it was soaking wet and my camera battery was dead--but I do have a couple pics of the outfit I made for the Virginia Renn faire (which is far more impressive than the simple thing I had on yesterday, since I was just visiting).

I wouldn't want to insult the guy who is being teased, though. I mean, the thing that hurts most about it is that someone is using me to hurt someone else in the first place.

Anyway, since this thread needs more pics:


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## Fascinita (Sep 29, 2008)

You look so cute.  Really adorable.


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## imfree (Sep 29, 2008)

Keb said:


> I didn't get any pics yesterday--it was soaking wet and my camera battery was dead--but I do have a couple pics of the outfit I made for the Virginia Renn faire (which is far more impressive than the simple thing I had on yesterday, since I was just visiting).
> 
> I wouldn't want to insult the guy who is being teased, though. I mean, the thing that hurts most about it is that someone is using me to hurt someone else in the first place.
> 
> Anyway, since this thread needs more pics:



Princess, you sell yourself short! Lovely and regal as you
appear, surely you must be a queen!


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## imfree (Sep 29, 2008)

Keb said:


> I didn't get any pics yesterday--it was soaking wet and my camera battery was dead--but I do have a couple pics of the outfit I made for the Virginia Renn faire (which is far more impressive than the simple thing I had on yesterday, since I was just visiting).
> 
> I wouldn't want to insult the guy who is being teased, though. I mean, the thing that hurts most about it is that someone is using me to hurt someone else in the first place.
> 
> Anyway, since this thread needs more pics:



Princess, you sell yourself short! Lovely and regal as you
appear, surely, you must be our queen!


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## Ernest Nagel (Sep 29, 2008)

Keb said:


> I didn't get any pics yesterday--it was soaking wet and my camera battery was dead--but I do have a couple pics of the outfit I made for the Virginia Renn faire (which is far more impressive than the simple thing I had on yesterday, since I was just visiting).
> 
> I wouldn't want to insult the guy who is being teased, though. I mean, the thing that hurts most about it is that someone is using me to hurt someone else in the first place.
> 
> Anyway, since this thread needs more pics:



You're quite right, of course. Even though this particular guy probably wouldn't have heard maybe you could have tried "See about getting some real friends when you wake up!".

You're very lovely, btw Keb. I've always wondered how many people who engage in that kind of abusive taunting are secretly attracted to their targets and fear being discovered? I would guess more than a few, especially when their targets are as pretty as you. :bow:


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## imfree (Sep 29, 2008)

Ernest Nagel said:


> ...............snipped.......................
> 
> You're very lovely, btw Keb. I've always wondered how many people who engage in that kind of abusive taunting are secretly attracted to their targets and fear being discovered? I would guess more than a few, especially when their targets are as pretty as you. :bow:



I heartily agree with you, Ernest, and I too, wonder about guys like that!


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## imfree (Sep 29, 2008)

Keb said:


> I didn't get any pics yesterday--it was soaking wet and my camera battery was dead--but I do have a couple pics of the outfit I made for the Virginia Renn faire (which is far more impressive than the simple thing I had on yesterday, since I was just visiting).............snipped.....................



I've repped Keb too recently, could someone please 
rep the lovely lady for me?


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## Ashlynne (Sep 30, 2008)

Keb ... pretty outfit for a pretty lady! Thanks for showing us.


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## BigBeautifulMe (Sep 30, 2008)

I got her, Edgar. I meant to, anyway.


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## pinkylou (Sep 30, 2008)

Wow Keb you look amazing!!! I'd love to be a busty wench for a day!!! Im jealous!!!! :blush:


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## Ernest Nagel (Sep 30, 2008)

I'm curious about the tennis ball looking thingy hanging from your belt though, Keb. Some kind of All Knight Parking Aid, maybe?  I'm so clueless about Medieval fashion. OK, ALL fashion! :doh:


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## No-No-Badkitty (Sep 30, 2008)

Keb said:


> ]






It looks GREAT! Thank's for sharing!!!


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## pinkylou (Sep 30, 2008)

Might be a scent ball thingy, they used them to put herbs and lavender in to make them smell lovely. If Im wrong I'll cry as theres a medieval castle in my town, and I used to spend all my time there as a kid, as my mum worked there :blush:


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## squidge dumpling (Sep 30, 2008)

Keb said:


> I didn't get any pics yesterday--it was soaking wet and my camera battery was dead--but I do have a couple pics of the outfit I made for the Virginia Renn faire (which is far more impressive than the simple thing I had on yesterday, since I was just visiting).
> 
> I wouldn't want to insult the guy who is being teased, though. I mean, the thing that hurts most about it is that someone is using me to hurt someone else in the first place.
> 
> Anyway, since this thread needs more pics:



Love your pics Keb


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## Grandi Floras (Sep 30, 2008)

*I love it when a man looks at me and compliments me, at my age, I will take all I can get. LOL*​


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## Keb (Sep 30, 2008)

Pinkylou got it right--the scent makes you smell better, keeps you from smelling the plague-ridden peasantry, and was rumored to prevent disease. I made it from a chain and an ornament thingy I found at Michaels, though I had to spraypaint it silver because they only had goldish and I'm not high enough ranking for gold. It does have the advantage of keeping my garb fresh when it's packed up. 

And thanks for all the compliments. I appreciate them all.

(Wow, did I hijack the thread or what?)


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## pinkylou (Sep 30, 2008)

Keb said:


> Pinkylou got it right--the scent makes you smell better, keeps you from smelling the plague-ridden peasantry, and was rumored to prevent disease. I made it from a chain and an ornament thingy I found at Michaels, though I had to spraypaint it silver because they only had goldish and I'm not high enough ranking for gold. It does have the advantage of keeping my garb fresh when it's packed up.
> 
> (Wow, did I hijack the thread or what?)




Pheeew!! Thank goodness I was right! Its an amazing costume...GIMME!!!!


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 30, 2008)

Keb said:


> I didn't get any pics yesterday--it was soaking wet and my camera battery was dead--but I do have a couple pics of the outfit I made for the Virginia Renn faire (which is far more impressive than the simple thing I had on yesterday, since I was just visiting).
> 
> I wouldn't want to insult the guy who is being teased, though. I mean, the thing that hurts most about it is that someone is using me to hurt someone else in the first place.
> 
> Anyway, since this thread needs more pics:



Oh wow, you look absolutely beautiful- what wonderful dimples you have. Two of my daughters have them so I now notice them on anyone that has them....dimples always make someone look sweet and kind to me  :bow:



imfree said:


> I've repped Keb too recently, could someone please
> rep the lovely lady for me?



Gawd, I have tried....but my rep gauge has hit bottom again :doh:


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## Johnny718Bravo (Sep 30, 2008)

Keb you look absolutely gorgeous! *Smiles*


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## imfree (Sep 30, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Oh wow, you look absolutely beautiful- what wonderful dimples you have. Two of my daughters have them so I now notice them on anyone that has them....dimples always make someone look sweet and kind to me  :bow:
> 
> 
> 
> Gawd, I have tried....but my rep gauge has hit bottom again :doh:



Yah, Neighbor, mine has too, and I'm really getting 
a bad case of rep-anxiety, myself!

I can't get my rep up!


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 30, 2008)

imfree said:


> Yah, Neighbor, mine has too, and I'm really getting
> a bad case of rep-anxiety, myself!
> 
> I can't get my rep up!



Edgar, I just now got her!


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## imfree (Oct 1, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Edgar, I just now got her!



I'll send some rep your way when I'm able.


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## imfree (Oct 1, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Edgar, I just now got her!



I'll send some rep your way when I'm able.


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## pagan22 (Oct 1, 2008)

I'm real good at making eye contact with men and then going glassy eyed like a cat. Kind of freaks them out knowing that my mind got sucked into a vortex somewhere. 

Personally, I hate receiving compliments from strangers. I never get compliments at home or from friends, so it's weird and creates an awkward situation for me that I would rather avoid at all costs.

If a guy thinks I'm pretty, great. Buy me flowers or something to show your appreciation. Words are often lies and I probably will get an attitude if a guy tries to tell me I'm beautiful.


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## steely (Oct 4, 2008)

I really try to be gracious with compliments and not question them as anything but a compliment.I was chastised in my youth for not taking a compliment well.Since then I've always said Thank you,that's very kind.


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## Johnny718Bravo (Oct 12, 2008)

Well tomorrow is another day. Let's see who I can smile at on my lunch break


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## Shosh (Oct 12, 2008)

Johnny718Bravo said:


> Well tomorrow is another day. Let's see who I can smile at on my lunch break



I try to touch at least one person's life even in a small way each day. 

It is a very worthy pursuit Matt.


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## mimosa (Oct 12, 2008)

Johnny718Bravo said:


> Well tomorrow is another day. Let's see who I can smile at on my lunch break



You make me smile all the time, Matt.


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## mimosa (Oct 12, 2008)

Susannah said:


> I try to touch at least one person's life even in a small way each day.
> 
> It is a very worthy pursuit Matt.



You touch my life, my dearest friend. Love ya, Susannah!


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## Shosh (Oct 12, 2008)

mimosa said:


> You touch my life, my dearest friend. Love ya, Susannah!



You too my dear Mimi.:kiss2:


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