# Compulsive Eating, Overeaters Anonymous, Etc.



## mergirl (Nov 14, 2009)

One of my friends was talking about having disordered eating patterns, so i looked up the site for 'overeaters anonymous' to see if there were any groups in her area. (She thinks the idea of a support group would help her). I was a bit shocked, as their 12 step program is all about god!!! No offense to christians, but i don't see how god is going to help with a psychiatric problem and anyway even if 'faith' works for some people, my friend is a Pagan and so these steps would not be relivent to her. 
Does anyone know of any good groups for compulsive/comfort eating that don't revolve around giving over your trust and soul to god??!!
Do you think support groups can help people more than going it alone.. or are they just a way of some corporation making money?? (Like weightwatchers or something)
These are the holy steps... how strange..:huh:
Are all the 'anonomous' groups christian based and i just didn't know this or something?? 

http://www.oagb.org.uk/?page_id=38


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## Crystal (Nov 14, 2009)

A friend of mine is Pagan and belongs to an OA group. Hmm...


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## Allie Cat (Nov 14, 2009)

Most 'anonymous' groups are based on Alcoholics Anonymous, which I think was originally created as a Jeebus-based group. FWIW.


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## mergirl (Nov 14, 2009)

CrystalUT11 said:


> A friend of mine is Pagan and belongs to an OA group. Hmm...


It would seem to go against their beliefs though.. i'm not sure my friend would be comfortable with a program based around christianity.. i'm not sure it could work for her, as its based around something she doesn't believe in..



Divals said:


> Most 'anonymous' groups are based on Alcoholics Anonymous, which I think was originally created as a Jeebus-based group. FWIW.


ahhh..you learn something every day! Aww..jeebus 
is so nice helping people and all. Though there is something i find a bit strange about this... must think on it more..
I had an Uncle who went to AA- He didn't mention it had anything to do with god. I can see how it would be ok to start off as a christian based group... but the steps are a bit faith specific... you would think there would be more psychology included seeing it is addiction that is being dealt with...


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## mergirl (Nov 14, 2009)

Step 2 is mental! -"2.Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity."
Jeeeebus!!


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## Jes (Nov 14, 2009)

Yeah, AA is jesus-y. I think a lot of people have success with it b/c it's a solid program, is more than just religion undercover, and people can, to a small extent, personalize it. Your friend might get something out of it. Doesn't hurt to attend a meeting or 2 and see, right? I don't know how I'd swallow the religious stuff personally, but I do think the program works for a lot of people. I don't know how many people going it alone works for. Ultimately, many pagans do have a belief system, right? Something about mother earth or the universe or something? Maybe your friend can make substitutions in her mind; I'm sure many AA-type members do so and it's accepted.


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## Allie Cat (Nov 14, 2009)

Jes said:


> Yeah, AA is jesus-y. I think a lot of people have success with it b/c it's a solid program, is more than just religion undercover, and people can, to a small extent, personalize it. Your friend might get something out of it. Doesn't hurt to attend a meeting or 2 and see, right? I don't know how I'd swallow the religious stuff personally, but I do think the program works for a lot of people. I don't know how many people going it alone works for. Ultimately, many pagans do have a belief system, right? Something about mother earth or the universe or something? Maybe your friend can make substitutions in her mind; I'm sure many AA-type members do so and it's accepted.



Aye, I believe so.

...my dad was in AA, and he's a hardcore atheist. I'm still not sure how THAT worked.


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## steely (Nov 14, 2009)

This is kind of the problem I'm having with my grief support group. It is religous based and I am not, really. Besides the fact that I'm not real happy with a God that will take my husband and best friend from me. So I am trying to take support from the people there and gloss over as much religion as I can. We'll see how it goes.


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## ssflbelle (Nov 14, 2009)

As Mergirl here quote.



mergirl said:


> Step 2 is mental! -"2.Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity."
> Jeeeebus!!



I was told that power greater than ourselves doesn't have to be Jesus or God. It could be anything. 

My problem with OA when I was involved with it was that after we went from one person to the next and read each passage and the chapter out loud we had to go around the room and share our thoughts and feelings. I am usually a rather private person I couldn't bring myself to do that so I left the group. 

I don't know if they have this where you are located but I was introduced this week to EFT at a meetup. Emotional Freedom Techniques (EFT) is an emotional, needle free version of acupuncture that is based on new discoveries regarding the connection between your body's subtle energies, your emotions, and your health. Here is the web site. http://www.emofree.com/


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## TraciJo67 (Nov 14, 2009)

Mer, I've never been to an OA meeting but I am familiar with 12-step programs. I belong to one of them (Al-Anon) and am about the least religious person on the planet. I haven't attended a meeting in ages, but when I needed it ... it was a wonderful place to be. Although the founding principles are undeniably religious in nature, the focus is most definitely not. People are encouraged to define their higher power in a way that makes sense to them. For me, it has nothing to do with God or Jeebs, since I believe that both are about as real as Santa and the Easter Bunny. I would encourage your friend to at least attend a meeting. It's not for everyone, and she may find that it's not her cuppa, either. I was very cynical when I first attended an Al-Anon meeting and in fact, went because I was just about at my breaking point emotionally and didn't feel that I had anything to lose. It turned out to be one of the wisest decisions that I've ever made.


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## Tina (Nov 17, 2009)

This thread is going to be re-opened, after days of discussing it on the admin board. Please don't fear that your reported posts and messages about this thread went unheard; they did not. We just needed to be clear on some issues before re-opening.

I think that for some with no experience with OA or what their mission is, the mention of OA brings up visions of Weight Watchers and other diet groups (TOPS also comes to mind). I'm sure there have been a few OA chapters whose focus is diet, but in fact, by reading OAs bylaws and mission statement, one can see what they are all about. See for yourself...

_Overeaters Anonymous offers a program of recovery from compulsive eating using the Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions of OA. Worldwide meetings and other tools provide a fellowship of experience, strength and hope where members respect one another’s anonymity. OA charges no dues or fees; it is self-supporting through member contributions.

OA is not just about weight loss, gain or maintenance; or obesity or diets. It addresses physical, emotional and spiritual well-being. It is not a religious organization and does not promote any particular diet. If you want to stop your compulsive overeating, welcome to Overeaters Anonymous._

For those of you who skim, at least read the portions that have been bolded...

*This thread will be re-opened, as long as some guidelines will be followed. Any posts that stray from them will be removed. Dimensions does not allow diet talk. There will be no posts here about goal weights, about dieting, about how fatness = bad, etc. *

All of us, and I include Conrad here (while also not speaking for him) understand that there can be health consequences that can come from fatness; and also that there can be other issues surrounding it, such as disordered eating. As well, some of us (I list myself in this group) do have eating disorders and struggle with separating the genesis and foundation, and results, of those disorders from the desire to have a more healthy relationship with food. 

To that end, this discussion will continue, in a serious, on-topic vein. While men in general have less disordered eating problems, there are some who do struggle with it. *Men with eating disorders and experiences with OA are welcome to post here, too, as long as the BBW forum rules are followed. All rule violations, all diet talk, all off-topic stuff will be removed.*

Thank you for being patient and for letting us know how you feel -- we really do want to know. When there is a serious issue, we do take the time to discuss them, and sometimes it can take a while to come to some kind of accord and define what that accord will be -- what shape it will take.


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## katherine22 (Nov 17, 2009)

mergirl said:


> Step 2 is mental! -"2.Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity."
> Jeeeebus!!



There is a group called rational recovery based on cognitive behavorial theory. google it.


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## Sugar (Nov 17, 2009)

I really appreciate the mods taking a moment and reading thru the OA site to see what this is really about. 

I've checked out OA every year for the past 6 years. I always chicken out at the last minute. I tried the online groups and they seemed like a chat room to me and I never felt safe to say anything. This week, tomorrow, I'm going to a meeting before I see my therapist. I'm terrified of going, but I'm more scared of letting food rule my mood and my life. 

I can relate to ssfbelle, I'm not sure I will want to read anything out loud or even talk for that matter. I don't read the bible, nor do I believe in it. I do however believe in a higher power so I'm feeling like there may be benefit for me to go. 

I would think at the heart of addiction lies the same core issues regardless of the drug and the 12 step programs seem to be effective for a lot of people. I do wonder about other options though.


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## steely (Nov 17, 2009)

I'm really glad this thread is back. It really was helping me to understand support groups. I really need help with understanding. Thank you for putting it back.


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## LoveBHMS (Nov 17, 2009)

Sugar said:


> I really appreciate the mods taking a moment and reading thru the OA site to see what this is really about.
> 
> I've checked out OA every year for the past 6 years. I always chicken out at the last minute. I tried the online groups and they seemed like a chat room to me and I never felt safe to say anything. This week, tomorrow, I'm going to a meeting before I see my therapist. I'm terrified of going, but I'm more scared of letting food rule my mood and my life.
> 
> ...



I was in OA for quite some time and it was the only thing to help with my bulimia after 13 years of hell.

As a Jew, the emphasis on G-d was fine with me, but lots of others just used a broader concept of "Higher Power" in whatever way they definded "Higher Power". The concept was merely that you were powerless over a certain substance or behaviour. In a well known book about the program, the writer even talks about making the group itself your Higher Power, i.e. the group can help heal you while you can't do it yourself.

None of the readings in any group I went to were from the Judeo-Christian Bible, they were from the AA "Big Book" and other 12 step related writings. 

You absolutely do NOT have to talk or read if you don't want to. At your first meeting they will ask if anyone is new or returning and you can raise your hand and may be invited to introduce yourself, but that is it. You can even approach the leader before the meeting and say you're just there to listen to see if OA is right for you and you're prefer to not speak at this time.

One downside I've found is that the meetings themselves can be crapshoots as far as emphasis. Some have more of a "food addict" direction and will often suggest abstaining from certain specific foods with the idea that they trigger binges. Others are focused on anorexia/bulimia. Still others are more general and allow you to define your own concept of abstinence. For me, abstinence was not throwing up or using laxative. For others it might be three committed meals a day which meant calling a sponsor each day to plan your food and sticking to that plan. For others, abstinence was abstaining from certain types of food----typically refined sugar, white flour, alcohol, and refined carbs. I recently moved and have been unable to find bulimia specific meeting where I live now, and the "food addict" ones just don't work for me, but that's just a regional thing, it's nothing to do with OA on the whole.

At your first meeting they will suggest you try several meetings to determine if the program is right for you.


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## JMNYC (Nov 17, 2009)

Hi, Mer!


There are two ways of looking at the God thing in OA, AA, NA, DA, CA---

1) 

"Thank you for pulling me, bleeding and broken and alone, out of this ditch. I'm so grateful for your help. WHAT? You're into GOD? Drop me this instant! Goodbye!"

or---

2) 

"Thank you for pulling me, bleeding and broken and alone, out of this ditch. I'm so grateful for your help. God? You're into GOD? Well, ok. I really need help, and I want the help more than I am bugged by whatever it is you care to believe, so let's go."

Whatever works, man.


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## mossystate (Nov 17, 2009)

I wish there were more options, with no talk of gods.

I would not scream and run out of a group...that is silly...but I also would not be able to push aside certain talk, as it is part of the foundation. The first example is more than a little insulting to many people. I have no problem with people making...whatever...work for them. I would consider OA if it did not have that base. 

I need to do some research.


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## HottiMegan (Nov 17, 2009)

My mom took me to a series of OA meetings when i was 12. It was a warm atmosphere with little "christian" talk. There may have been some god referrals but i was not put out by it since it was a general god or higher power. It was a long time ago but it was a nice group of people. All of whom i could relate to. I have many issues with food and it was kind of nice. Being 12 on the other hand, it was also VERY scary since i was the youngest person there. I loved the parties they held though


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## LillyBBBW (Nov 17, 2009)

From what I understood when I was at OA, 'Higher Power' could mean anything you wanted it to be. It could be 'The Force' or something as simple as meditation/tapping in to some inner most center of personal fortitude. It wasn't really religious based at all and there was never any actual push. Most religious institutions that I know of don't like OA/AA _because_ of that and have fashioned their own that are strictly Christian based. If you've never been to OA or AA don't be turned off because you think someone is going to try to indoctrinate you with Jesus stuff. It's not like that at all unless you actually live in the bible belt. Even so, don't be deterred from at least taking a look around if you're looking for help/support.


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## Sugar (Nov 17, 2009)

HottiMegan said:


> My mom took me to a series of OA meetings when i was 12. It was a warm atmosphere with little "christian" talk. There may have been some god referrals but i was not put out by it since it was a general god or higher power. It was a long time ago but it was a nice group of people. All of whom i could relate to. I have many issues with food and it was kind of nice. Being 12 on the other hand, it was also VERY scary since i was the youngest person there. I loved the parties they held though





LillyBBBW said:


> From what I understood when I was at OA, 'Higher Power' could mean anything you wanted it to be. It could be 'The Force' or something as simple as meditation/tapping in to some inner most center of personal fortitude. It wasn't really religious based at all and there was never any actual push. Most religious institutions that I know of don't like OA/AA _because_ of that and have fashioned their own that are strictly Christian based. If you've never been to OA or AA don't be turned off because you think someone is going to try to indoctrinate you with Jesus stuff. It's not like that at all unless you actually live in the bible belt. Even so, don't be deterred from at least taking a look around if you're looking for help/support.



Thanks ladies, this was helpful. I just may have to use the force for now!


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## LillyBBBW (Nov 17, 2009)

Sugar said:


> Thanks ladies, this was helpful. I just may have to use the force for now!



Just remember that the word 'Anonymous' is in the title of the institution for a reason. You don't have to say anything if you don't want to. If they try to push you then leave right away. That's not what it's supposed to be about.


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## Sugar (Nov 17, 2009)

LillyBBBW said:


> Just remember that the word 'Anonymous' is in the title of the institution for a reason. You don't have to say anything if you don't want to. If they try to push you then leave right away. That's not what it's supposed to be about.



I will, thanks so much! (((hugs for support)))


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## Shosh (Nov 17, 2009)

I do OA, and I actually have a meeting today.

OA does not stress that your higher power be " Religious" it can be anything of significance to you.

My personal higher power is the group that I belong to. That may change over time. I don't know.


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## Carrie (Nov 17, 2009)

I have some things to share here in this thread, but not tonight, too tired. For now, I'm just very happy that this thread exists and is open for business, and I wanted to thank the moderators and Conrad for reevaluating and reopening the thread. Much appreciated. :happy:


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## butch (Nov 17, 2009)

I had a lot of experience in OA in the past, and I've spent the past, um, 15 months dealing in part with eating patterns I was less than pleased with, and right now I feel like OA is not the place for me to deal with my relationship with food, but I think we could all benefit from talking about the ways we deal with food and hunger and pleasure and all the other stuff tied up so tightly in morality messages about appetities and bodies.

I don't know if I have a point here, but just to say that in the future I might want to share more about where I was, and where I am, when it comes to food and how that impacts my physical and mental health.

I will say that weekly individual therapy was a huge help in my ability to deal with a lot of these issues (well, all my issues , not just the food ones). If others reading this would be willing to speak about other places/people that they've interacted with in order to address their relationship with food, that would be helpful, I think.


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## superodalisque (Nov 18, 2009)

i thought those groups usually referred to a "higher power" are they really mentioning jesus a lot? i also wonder if it has to do with which chapter you belong to as well. maybe one of the jesusy ones could point your friend to a nearby chapter that isn't so pointedly christian?


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## Shosh (Nov 18, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> i thought those groups usually referred to a "higher power" are they really mentioning jesus a lot? i also wonder if it has to do with which chapter you belong to as well. maybe one of the jesusy ones could point your friend to a nearby chapter that isn't so pointedly christian?



I have never heard Jesus mentioned at any meeting that I have been to.

I have also not heard of a Christian OA meeting, as OA is not affiliated with any form of organized religion.
If a group has done that, then they have broken off from mainstream OA.


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## superodalisque (Nov 18, 2009)

Susannah said:


> I have never heard Jesus mentioned at any meeting that I have been to.
> 
> I have also not heard of a Christian OA meeting, as OA is not affiliated with any form of organized religion.
> If a group has done that, then they have broken off from mainstream OA.



thats what i had thought. i was wondering...

but there was a heavy religious bent. maybe it depends on your chapter. i have a feeling that maybe a more urban chapter might be less religion centered. but i had a look at some stuff and it does seem there are a lot of religious testimonial type things going on in twelve step programs too. take a look at this for AA : http://www.adherents.com/people/pw/Bill_Wilson.html


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Nov 18, 2009)

The OA group I went to here in the UK was pretty good as far as religion goes, but that could be because the UK is less religious. God is mentioned, but God can be anything. I know one lady there used nature, the beauty of it all as her higher power. I never heard anyone say Jesus.

The reason I stopped going is I am very uncomfortable with the sponsor side of it. I'm socially awkward and don't develop relationships easily. It takes a lot for me to trust anyone and the thought of bothering someone with my problems, did not appeal to me.

I did get some counselling for my binge eating. It was good and taught me some valuable lessons. I will never be cured, but I do have times of wellness. I have been struggling alot the past year as my psoriasis got embarrassingly bad, I stayed in and built up my own little world that revolved around food. The psoriasis has gone into remission again and I am coming out of the fog. I suddenly remembered how to get control of this beast and life is good.


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## Shosh (Nov 18, 2009)

BeautifulPoeticDisaster said:


> The OA group I went to here in the UK was pretty good as far as religion goes, but that could be because the UK is less religious. God is mentioned, but God can be anything. I know one lady there used nature, the beauty of it all as her higher power. I never heard anyone say Jesus.
> 
> The reason I stopped going is I am very uncomfortable with the sponsor side of it. I'm socially awkward and don't develop relationships easily. It takes a lot for me to trust anyone and the thought of bothering someone with my problems, did not appeal to me.
> 
> I did get some counselling for my binge eating. It was good and taught me some valuable lessons. I will never be cured, but I do have times of wellness. I have been struggling alot the past year as my psoriasis got embarrassingly bad, I stayed in and built up my own little world that revolved around food. The psoriasis has gone into remission again and I am coming out of the fog. I suddenly remembered how to get control of this beast and life is good.



I do not have a sponsor, as I feel the meetings are enough for me. I do not want to be calling somebody at all hours of the day and night. That is not me.
You can still work the program and do what works for you.


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## mergirl (Nov 18, 2009)

Thank you mods for re-evaluating this thread. I really did not want to talk about diets in any way (not least because i have seen so many people try them and fail and end up in a spiral) but thought that eating disorders are really significant to so many people. Anyway, initially i was wondering about alternatives to religious based groups. 1. because my friend now considers herself pagan and rejects religion of any kind. Secondly because she has talked about her pretty repressive catholic upbringing, which i think has a lot to do with a lot of her compulsions, so was worried that if religion was sited it wouldn't just put her off but might actually make her worse. Thank you everyone for sharing your experiences and for the advice. I'm sure we have lots to learn from each other on this subject. Anyway, i am glad this thread is open again.
I have had experience myself of disordered eating. I remember stuffing food into my mouth and spitting it out.. i have no idea what age i was, but really young maby 6ish. I remember not eating.. spitting food out, being afraid of certain foods, compulsive excersizing.. all sorts of stuff. I actually had pretty bad o.c.d too for many years that really got in the way of my life (which can come back as ticks and intrusive thoughts if i am stressed). I never went to any groups, though i actually really wish i had as i think they would have been a great help. My o.c.d behaviour sort of stopped in my teens but was replaced by self harm which i guess wasn't all that good either to be honest. (This was very much compulsive too and i still have to struggle not to do this). I feel like i am being very 'me me me' so wont dither on too much.. but for me i belive a lot of my compulsive behaviour is a form of control which stems from a lot of abuse as a child. As i have slowly come to terms with this my compulsive behaviours and thoughts have become less. Though i don't think this is the case for everyone, out of the people i know who either compulsively eat, drink, gamble..(i know a lot of mentally unwell people being a muso!) for many of them it seems to be a way of controlling things they either cant control now or couldn't control at some point. I don't know if there is any sort of empirical evidence for this link but to me it makes sense...


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## mergirl (Nov 18, 2009)

HottiMegan said:


> My mom took me to a series of OA meetings when i was 12. It was a warm atmosphere with little "christian" talk. There may have been some god referrals but i was not put out by it since it was a general god or higher power. It was a long time ago but it was a nice group of people. All of whom i could relate to. I have many issues with food and it was kind of nice. Being 12 on the other hand, it was also VERY scary since i was the youngest person there. I loved the parties they held though


Actually, this reminds me of something. Do you think that there is an age where you are too young for groups like this? This is a bit off subject but i had a friend and her mum took her to hypnosis for OE when she was really young (i think she said in her early teens) -She rembers the guy basically saying 'fat is bad' and stuff like that.. so actually, it made her self image worse as well as her disordered eating. I know there is a huge difference between some bastard hyptotist and support groups.. but i wonder if there is any point/reason they might do more harm than good, or if there should be an age limit to attendance??


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## LoveBHMS (Nov 18, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> i thought those groups usually referred to a "higher power" are they really mentioning jesus a lot? i also wonder if it has to do with which chapter you belong to as well. maybe one of the jesusy ones could point your friend to a nearby chapter that isn't so pointedly christian?



I never heard any mention of Jesus in any meeting I attended. In fact, some people who did use G-d (meaning a traditional Judeo-Christian deity) would often qualify that as "my higher power who I chose to call G-d" meaning there was always an understanding that that did not apply to everyone in OA.

The preamble read before each meeting always states the group's only purpose is to help those suffering from compulsive eating.

As for age, I never saw anyone younger than late teens at the groups, but I think it would be an individual choice at that age, hopefully discussed with parents or a therapist or school nurse as to whether that was the appropriate venue to get help.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Nov 18, 2009)

mergirl said:


> Actually, this reminds me of something. Do you think that there is an age where you are too young for groups like this? This is a bit off subject but i had a friend and her mum took her to hypnosis for OE when she was really young (i think she said in her early teens) -She rembers the guy basically saying 'fat is bad' and stuff like that.. so actually, it made her self image worse as well as her disordered eating. I know there is a huge difference between some bastard hyptotist and support groups.. but i wonder if there is any point/reason they might do more harm than good, or if there should be an age limit to attendance??



My mom and her friend took me for my first time when I was about 9. It was traumatic in that after the meeting my mom and her friend did nothing but trash talk the people who were there. It made me feel isolated and encouraged sneak eating which I did all throughout life until I got married. 

I think kids are too young to understand and wouldn't recommend it for anyone under 15ish depending on the maturity of the child.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Nov 18, 2009)

Shosh said:


> I do not have a sponsor, as I feel the meetings are enough for me. I do not want to be calling somebody at all hours of the day and night. That is not me.
> You can still work the program and do what works for you.



Yeah, you're right. I have thought about going back because I did like the feeling that I wasn't alone. I found a lot of comfort in knowing the skinny woman sat next to me had the same exact issue just manifested differently and we accepted each other as we are.


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## LillyBBBW (Nov 18, 2009)

BeautifulPoeticDisaster said:


> My mom and her friend took me for my first time when I was about 9. It was traumatic in that after the meeting my mom and her friend did nothing but trash talk the people who were there. It made me feel isolated and encouraged sneak eating which I did all throughout life until I got married.
> 
> I think kids are too young to understand and wouldn't recommend it for anyone under 15ish depending on the maturity of the child.



Yes I agree. Something of this nature is a personal and private thing. Fundamentally a child should not go to things like this unsupervised which defeats the purpose of how and why OA works. You would need to have an OA type thing specifically designed for kids that is supervised by a licensed adult with some sort of certification to work with children or some such thing. Sending a kid unsupervised into a loose group filled with G-d knows who -- no, I wouldn't. Some adults wouldn't even feel comfortable going to a meeting like that where there is a child present.


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## superodalisque (Nov 18, 2009)

i'm glad the mods re-opened this too. i'm really proud of them for rethinking everything. i don't think having control of your mental well being and your eating necessarily means you want to be thin. and maybe this is a sign that every little thing about weight loss won't seem so threatening to the community anymore. the fear of weight loss talk makes it kind of look like nobody really wants to be fat or enjoys how they are and will take any chance they can to "escape" thier predicament. i think it shows a real maturing of the mind set around here and i hope it continues. its wonderful for people to be able to take control of thier lives and be fat by choice instead of fat because they feel helpless to be otherwise. its hard for anyone to be happy with thier size with a monkey on thier back. and even though sometimes all of us look for an escape from the weight loss talk that seems to be everywhere these days its good for people to have the freedom to talk about it in a venue that isn't fat phobic but pro mental and physical health and where people understand the meaning of HAAS.


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## Rojodi (Nov 18, 2009)

Our local O.A. is very Christian. I've had those people hand me literature as I've waited for the bus. My feelings have always been..

Jesus didn't make me fat, why would he make me thin?


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## HottiMegan (Nov 18, 2009)

mergirl said:


> Actually, this reminds me of something. Do you think that there is an age where you are too young for groups like this? This is a bit off subject but i had a friend and her mum took her to hypnosis for OE when she was really young (i think she said in her early teens) -She rembers the guy basically saying 'fat is bad' and stuff like that.. so actually, it made her self image worse as well as her disordered eating. I know there is a huge difference between some bastard hyptotist and support groups.. but i wonder if there is any point/reason they might do more harm than good, or if there should be an age limit to attendance??



I do think i was a little young to hear some of the "scary" grown up issues. It also was a comfort in a way knowing that i wasn't the only one with a horrible relationship with food. It also made me realize, for the first time, that i wasn't a total horrible person for being fat. My mom stopped taking me after a few meetings, maybe because of my tender age. She was really involved with it for a couple of years. She was also in one of those meetings that are for people with family members in addiction. 
I think that an older kid might benefit from a meeting if they're seeking help. I was a very young 12 and it might have been a little too mature for me.


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## TraciJo67 (Nov 18, 2009)

Rojodi said:


> Our local O.A. is very Christian. I've had those people hand me literature as I've waited for the bus. My feelings have always been..
> 
> Jesus didn't make me fat, why would he make me thin?
> 
> I did it myself, I need to do it on my own, well, with the help of friends. I won't pray for Him to take it away.



That's an interesting point, and one that I struggled with when I joined Al-Anon. I felt that the "problem" wasn't with me ... it was with the family member who couldn't stop drinking and was making our lives, including his own, a hell on earth. I also believed that any responsibility that I had was squarely on MY shoulders, and ... success or failure ... it's all me. 

But that's not really what acknowledging a higher power is all about. It's more about realizing that, when you come to the point of needing some kind of intervention (including 12-step programs) you haven't always made the best decisions. They are, in fact, part and parcel of what led the course of our lives off track. That's a very humbling thing to have to acknowledge -- i.e., I can't trust myself to always make the best decisions for myself or others. It's also rather freeing, in its own way. It doesn't negate responsibility, at all. I'm just affirming that I need something MORE than my own judgment in order to turn my life around. 

For me, it looked something like this: I cannot change/control or alter the course of anyone's life but my own. *Those who have been through similar situations* (reference to my higher power) have found that they cannot allow themselves to be co-dependent any longer. I may not be able to keep my loved one from drinking, but I can make sure that he faces the consequences of those actions, and fully. I acknowledge that my own baggage and my own fear has stood in the way of making any kind of real progress with this family member. I've blamed him for decisions that I've made -- when in fact, I chose to allow him to bring harm to me and my family because the alternative seemed worse to me. The alternative meant letting go. I've been arrogant enough to believe that I could save him, and I basked in the praise that I received from other family members for being "saintly" enough to do so. 

A footnote: He died last year. He'd been sober for 6+ months, but he chose to drink, and had an accident that may not have taken his life, had he been sober at the time. Had it not been for the life-changing, life-SAVING strategies and coping mechanisms that I learned in Al-Anon, I would have torn myself apart with grief and regret and the "would have, could have, should have's". 

I know that this is off-tangent to OA itself, but I felt that it was important to discuss the "higher power" concept of the 12-step program. OA's will look very similar to Al-Anon in terms of hower these steps are implemented.


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## Tina (Nov 18, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> i'm glad the mods re-opened this too. i'm really proud of them for rethinking everything. i don't think having control of your mental well being and your eating necessarily means you want to be thin. and maybe this is a sign that every little thing about weight loss won't seem so threatening to the community anymore. the fear of weight loss talk makes it kind of look like nobody really wants to be fat or enjoys how they are and will take any chance they can to "escape" thier predicament. i think it shows a real maturing of the mind set around here and i hope it continues. its wonderful for people to be able to take control of thier lives and be fat by choice instead of fat because they feel helpless to be otherwise. its hard for anyone to be happy with thier size with a monkey on thier back. and even though sometimes all of us look for an escape from the weight loss talk that seems to be everywhere these days its good for people to have the freedom to talk about it in a venue that isn't fat phobic but pro mental and physical health and where people understand the meaning of HAAS.


Hi there Ms. Odalisque. I have to correct something here though. This thread is not for weight loss talk nor diet talk. It's really about eating issues such as Eating Disorders (EDs) and OA and/or other 12-step types of groups which deal with disordered eating and not weight loss. Sorry to disappoint, but I don't think Dimensions will ever allow diet talk. Now, on the health board, you can find healthy eating recipes and threads about healthy eating, I believe, but not about diets. I don't see that ever changing.


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## mergirl (Nov 18, 2009)

Tina said:


> Hi there Ms. Odalisque. I have to correct something here though. This thread is not for weight loss talk nor diet talk. It's really about eating issues such as Eating Disorders (EDs) and OA and/or other 12-step types of groups which deal with disordered eating and not weight loss. Sorry to disappoint, but I don't think Dimensions will ever allow diet talk. Now, on the health board, you can find healthy eating recipes and threads about healthy eating, I believe, but not about diets. I don't see that ever changing.


Is this honest though?
I don't belive in diets but i'm not sure why discussing weightloss as part of something else should be problematic.
I think if people can stop Compulsive eating, then 'weight loss' will be a possible ..erm side effect? 
In many cases the women here think this is a welcome part of overcoming this particular addiction, especially if they have weight related problems or if losing weight (even some weight) makes their lives somehow better. 
Surely this is better discussed in a fat friendly place ..where people dont feel pressured to be a specific bmi.. but to lose weight on their terms, if they want.. i know a lot of women here have lost weight.. why the taboo?


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## superodalisque (Nov 18, 2009)

Tina said:


> Hi there Ms. Odalisque. I have to correct something here though. This thread is not for weight loss talk nor diet talk. It's really about eating issues such as Eating Disorders (EDs) and OA and/or other 12-step types of groups which deal with disordered eating and not weight loss. Sorry to disappoint, but I don't think Dimensions will ever allow diet talk. Now, on the health board, you can find healthy eating recipes and threads about healthy eating, I believe, but not about diets. I don't see that ever changing.



thanks for correcting me. what a shame though that we don't feel strong enough yet that its still seen as some kind of threat. oh well, maybe someday the community will actually have the confidence*sigh*. but to be truthful i wasn't talking about cosmetic weight loss that predisposes that something is wrong with what fat looks like, just control over disorders and health issues. i think those are two entirely different things and should be approached as such. it would go a long way to breech the gap between people here who feel fetish etc... has to result in death and the fetish is more important to many who indulge in such fetishes than a woman's quest for a good and fulfilling life that may or may not require some weight loss depending on the person. 

if people knew that others valued their health, both physical and emotional, above fantasy then maybe there wouldn't be so much demonizing of feederism and gaining here. i think the tensions between the two groups is a direct result of people feeling that thier fight for life is less important than someone's good time. the way things are managed seem to underscore that. it would be nice to prove that the two can exist together and for the best when everyone's needs are considered and no one feels victimized. the people i really feel sorry for are the many feeders and gainers i know who would never want to endanger someone's life or happiness whether it be through thier mental or physical health but get lumped in that group because of what i consider to be some misleading rules that don't even represent how many of them think and often leave the impression that they are callus in that respect. i worry that the way things are now seems makes people into monsters who aren't. i'm pretty sure that most people i know don't enjoy the idea of seeing people they love and care about suffer. most of them are truly happy if we can manage the things that make our lives complete and they understand it doesn't mean we have to be thin to do so. i just wonder when the the official parts of dims will catch up to that idea. i mean its pretty old school to think what with the exposure a lot of people have had to the realities of fat that they would feel otherwise. and for the ones who are really disconnected and don't care about another person's happiness--well its sad to think dims would worry more about protecting people like that.

aside: my respectful advice is that sometimes a problem can be created when there really isn't one. and, as for your not ever seeing that changing--well people don't always foresee progress. 5 yrs ago no one would have ever predicted the possibility of an african american president. tg some things change for the better. hopefully open minds will always prevail.


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## Shosh (Nov 18, 2009)

I attend only one meeting a week. I also do not have a sponsor.

You work the twelve steps and the program, the way that works for you.
I read the literature, and I also do the work in my workbook that I have.

Some people feel they need a sponsor, some do not.

You can also attend online meetings from the privacy and comfort of your own home.

I live in a rural area so I have the meeting in my own home.

Do not be distracted by other people C.

One of the hallmarks of OA is to take the message of OA to people who are still suffering from compulsive eating. So that woman in all her annoyance, was not doing that.

I think you are beautiful and a champ meanwhile.:bow:


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## Tina (Nov 19, 2009)

I do understand. The thing is, though, we cannot have broader rules here than on the rest of the boards. The difference is that here we are discussing the issue of OA and EDs in a protected forum. I do know what some of you are saying, and have my own take on weight-loss for health reasons, but we need to stay within the guidelines of the rest of the boards, so weight-loss and diets are not up for discussion. You can see the policy that Conrad set down for the Health Forum here, and that is what we will be following. It's the best we can do within the confines of the rules.

*Any posts that have been edited or deleted have been done so in order to stay within the rules of no diet or weight-loss talk. Please respect them so we can keep this thread going.*


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## katherine22 (Nov 19, 2009)

butch said:


> I will say that weekly individual therapy was a huge help in my ability to deal with a lot of these issues (well, all my issues , not just the food ones). If others reading this would be willing to speak about other places/people that they've interacted with in order to address their relationship with food, that would be helpful, I think.




It was gratifying to learn to put food in perspective, as over the years I had a love/hate relationship with it. At the height of my anxiety, I was quite food obsessed in both directions either too much food or not enough. To have given myself permission to enjoy food felt like serious rebellion. Once I said I could eat anything at anytime and as much as I wanted, the food obession lifted. I eat what I want, I love food and my weight has stabilized. I do not feel powerless around food, and I thought that OA premise was difficult to accept. I have no intention of ever dieting since dieting made me crazy. So much time and creativity was wasted on thinking about food. I eat when I am hungry and as much as I want. There is no good food or bad food, if I want ice cream for dinner that is what I eat.


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## butch (Nov 19, 2009)

mergirl said:


> Is this honest though?
> I don't belive in diets but i'm not sure why discussing weightloss as part of something else should be problematic.
> I think if people can stop Compulsive eating, then 'weight loss' will be a possible ..erm side effect?
> In many cases the women here think this is a welcome part of overcoming this particular addiction, especially if they have weight related problems or if losing weight (even some weight) makes their lives somehow better.
> Surely this is better discussed in a fat friendly place ..where people dont feel pressured to be a specific bmi.. but to lose weight on their terms, if they want.. i know a lot of women here have lost weight.. why the taboo?



I get what you're saying, mer, but this is how I see it:

Focusing on weight loss, and not the healthy behaviors that may cause weight loss, is the concern. That is what HAES is all about. It isn't about "you must stay fat at all costs, just eat more veggies and walk around the block," its "let's focus on improving health and total well being in the individual not by shaming them into thinking part of their body is bad and must be removed, but by keying in on eating, moving, thinking, and treating in a way that makes the individual feel worthwhile and valued as they are, regardless of the size of their waist." That can, and does, result in weight loss in some people, but the focus, the goal, the praised part, isn't the weight loss, but the improved health.

For me personally, my aversion to diet talk isn't about it being triggering for me. I feel nothing when folks talk about dieting, as I don't have a history of failed diets in my past (I have maybe a history of a handful of failed diets in my lifetime), and irl if people I know are losing weight, I don't give them grief for it. Your body, your choice, right? However, those of us invested in a more politicized version of SA see diet and weight loss talk as being a talk about eradication of fat people, and not a language of care, compassion, and help for fat people.

I know that can be debated, and in non public gatherings, I'm fine with folks talking about weight loss and whatnot. But this is a public place with a comitment to SA, and if for no other reason, I think Dims should continue to honor the creed of many fat rights groups past and present and object to diet talk and weight loss talk so we can shift the focus in the health care system to one that cares about the fat person's health without thinking they'll be 'fine' if they just dropped a few.

Yesterday someone told me about a relative who died of a tumor because every time they went to the doctor to complain about symptoms, the doctor passed it off as being because they were fat, and told them to lose weight. That is horrific to me, and as long as weight loss talk out in the rest of the world allows doctors to feel they are doing their job if they behave this way, then I'm for no diet talk in SA circles, even if it seems like we're being fearful and reactionary.


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## LillyBBBW (Nov 19, 2009)

I really should not have gone to OA. What I needed were some sessions with a nutritionist to straighten me out. Being the seventh child in a family of eight and the only one who was fat my diet was strictly monitored and restricted. I binged a lot because I was littereally STARVING. This resulted in a lifestyle of disordered eating based upon bad habits and misconceptions about proper nutrition instilled in me as a child. There were also complications associated with my time at OA. While in meetings I would be particularly struck by some of the stories told at OA for reasons I couldn't understand untill later on they bloomed radically in my sexual fantasies. This really confused and horrified me at the same time but it never materialized in to anything behavioral so it was easy to ignore it once it was over. But I was scared shitless that I was going to turn in to one of those people at the meetings. It really messed me up. OA was not the place I should have been told to go and I think my presence there was unfair to the people who really needed it. Just my opinion. There seems to be this widespread ignorance as to what OA is and what it isn't. 

I hate to speak on behalf of anything based solely on my own experiences. I'm aware that every OA meeting is going to be somewhat different by location but I would say in general that OA is not the place to go if you are dieting and trying to lose weight and in need of support. OA is for disordered eating that goes beyond just the tired cycle of feast and famine induced by botched attempts at weight loss. I was young when I went and I thought the people in OA were crazy I was so blown away. I couldn't relate to any of them and I was the second fattest person in the room. Most of them weren't fat at all. I should NOT have been there. (I thought maybe my mother should go to be honest) As I've read this thread I've wondered if the hardline approach by some of the leaders of the OA meetings towards some of the people who've inquired was done deliberately in order to deter tourists and curious seekers away who didn't belong there.

OA has nothing at all to do with fat or the need for some pie every now and then. This is serious shit here but thank goodness it exists. It's EXCELLENT for anyone who really needs it regardless of belief and I feel that anyone who wants and need to go to OA should be supported in the highest order. I would highly recommend it but it's not for dieters who keep falling off the wagon. I'm also glad this thread has stayed open. I think it is important for the community to support people in need of the kind of help that OA offers. If you really feel you need to go to OA then you should go despite the scary tone you get from the organizer. You can still call the shots, but please don't go to OA just because you want to lose weight. There are other really great places to choose from but OA isn't one of them.


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## mergirl (Nov 19, 2009)

butch said:


> I get what you're saying, mer, but this is how I see it:
> 
> Focusing on weight loss, and not the healthy behaviors that may cause weight loss, is the concern. That is what HAES is all about. It isn't about "you must stay fat at all costs, just eat more veggies and walk around the block," its "let's focus on improving health and total well being in the individual not by shaming them into thinking part of their body is bad and must be removed, but by keying in on eating, moving, thinking, and treating in a way that makes the individual feel worthwhile and valued as they are, regardless of the size of their waist." That can, and does, result in weight loss in some people, but the focus, the goal, the praised part, isn't the weight loss, but the improved health.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to hear about the person who died because their doctor was incompetent. Not all Doctors are like that but for the ones who are there must be legislation put in place to stop them. Do you know of any fat rights groups who are looking into trying to change legislation for the medical examination of fat people? ie. that Gps are not allowed to assume that the problem has anything to do with weight. I don't really know much about law or as much as i feel i should about fat studies, including rights and legislation. You hear about fat people on here a lot who have had horrible experiences with their doctors, it really seems now it is a human rights issue.
I do believe in a lot of cases of health at every size. Recently my partner went for tests including blood pressure, cholestorol levels etc.. and everything came back normal.. when i was telling this to my mum.. when it got to the "Yeah all her tests were totally normal" she said "REALLY?" in a kinna shocked voice. It was almost incomprehensible to her that someone at over 20st could ever be 'healthy'. So, i would say that the Doctor in question may just be following suit as far as the perception of much of society are concerned.. I think this comes down to a lack of education, not anything to with the fact that "Weight loss talk is out in the world". 
Many people do suffer different medical problems which 'are' weight related. I don't think hiding our heads in the sand over that issues is helping anyone. I think people talking about losing some weight to improve the quality of their lives is a far cry from trying to eradicate all fat people!!! You are talking politically, when many people just want to be able to share their subjective truths and not have to hide aspects of their 'fat' experience, just because it happens that they have has wls or have had to lose some weight. 
I sometimes wonder if this place does have a commitment to size acceptance or whether it is actually fat acceptance. If it was the former, would the individual not have the right to decide what size they would like to be? (If they had that option) If they have this right why censor their experiences?


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## Tina (Nov 19, 2009)

Dimensions was originally created as part of the fat acceptance movement, so there you go. Others have termed it size acceptance, but originally? Fat acceptance, because particularly at that time, there was absolutely still no such thing. In many ways, there still is not. All one has to do is look around on the web at various other message boards to see that.

You might call it "hiding our heads in the sand," but it's really more of, "let's have a place where there is no diet talk -- at least one place on the net and in life."

Personally, if I want to talk about healthy eating here I can go to the Health board (though I haven't done much of that). And if I want to talk in depth about losing weight I go elsewhere, because I respect that this is not so much people being in denial as just wanting just one space where one won't wander into a discussion about losing weight, and I can respect that.


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## mergirl (Nov 19, 2009)

Tina said:


> Personally, if I want to talk about healthy eating here I can go to the Health board (though I haven't done much of that). And if I want to talk in depth about losing weight I go elsewhere, because I respect that this is not so much people being in denial as just wanting just one space where one won't wander into a discussion about losing weight, and I can respect that.



Ok..i accept that. You can't please all of the people all of the time.


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## Tina (Nov 19, 2009)

*sigh* Boy, you've got that right. It's hard when you would like to, even though you know it's just impossible. Thank you for understanding, Mer.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Nov 19, 2009)

Tina said:


> *sigh* Boy, you've got that right. It's hard when you would like to, even though you know it's just impossible. Thank you for understanding, Mer.



Ya know...it must really suck sometimes to be a mod. Everybody wanting different things all the time and trying to remain professional even with friends.

Now back to your regularly scheduled program.


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## Tina (Nov 19, 2009)

There are worse things in life. 

My words were not meant as complaints, just frustration.


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## butch (Nov 20, 2009)

Warning: the following may sound like diet talk. If it seems to break the 'no diet talk rule' please report it, as obviously I'm not in a place to judge whether it is, being a mod and all that myself.


I have a question. Could those of you who want to talk about weight loss explain to me why the focus on pounds lost and gained appears to be the most compelling part of the discussion of dieting and weight loss? If the reason people want to discuss weight loss is because it is the focus of one's improved health and well-being, then why can't that same discussion be held talking about everything that goes into the process without focusing on numbers?

For example, I can talk about healthy eating, exercise, and now disordered eating on Dims, and I can do this in detail and cover everything I do in my own life that has resulted in a noticeable change in my body, without ever mentioning pounds, calorie counts, and so forth. Adding in that I am now less in body mass than I was does not change anything about the process it took for me to get here, a place where I am still 'morbidly obese' but with vibrant health and the A-OK from a nutritionist for the food choices that I make.

Even for people bigger than I am, can't one instead talk about things like increased mobility, fitting into public spaces easier, and a whole other list of improvements from weight loss without actually having to talk about pounds lost? Couldn't one talk about the content of one's 'diet' (whole grains, fresh fruit and veggies, lean meats, perhaps) without talking about calories counted and fat grams counted, and get the same message across? Can't one talk about one's attempts to de-link eating from emotional cues, without talking about exact percentages of portions restricted and so forth?

I think one can have the exact same conversation about weight and food without focusing on measurements, and when we have the conversation focusing on all the 'healthy' behaviors that go into changes people want to make about their body, we are having the discussion that could truly, IMO, be of benefit to each other, and have a conversation that includes those who are against diet talk as well as those who are for it. When we reframe the exact same discussion as one about behaviors, and not the physical component of our states of being, we help to erase the stigma that surrounds all bodies that don't appear to fit a very narrow realm of 'fit/healthy' bodies.


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## LoveBHMS (Nov 20, 2009)

Good question.

I was recently talking to a trainer at my gym who has a subspecialty in working with SS clients. She talked about the affects of weight loss in a much more holistic way than "you can fit into this size" or "you start getting more attention from hot chicks" but she talked more about "fitting in places you couldn't fit before" and "experiencing a greater ease at getting around which allows you to feel like you better belong to the world" and just generally "being able to do things you could not do before". I thought those were great answers.

But. On the other hand.

The fact is, in many cases, losing weight is going to bring benefits that you are happy with that may have nothing to do with health. It could be pride at an accomplishment, it could be happiness at not having to order clothes from a catalogue but being able to go to a brick and morter store "like everyone else", it could be increased interest or attention from a partner if your partner is not an FA, it could be increased interest from women (or men, whichever your sexual preference), it could be feeling kickass at going to a high school reunion if you were the fat kid and having everyone "WOW" over you.

So I guess part of this question is, where would you draw the line? If I follow a certain eating plan and my blood sugars or cholesterol stabilizes, that's ok to talk about but it's not ok to say "I fit into a size ____ for the first time ever and I'm so proud."

The numbers question is interesting too. On the Weight Board with the "Skinniest and Fattest" pictures, all of them state how much the subject weighed in the picture. Some posts have several photos in which the subject goes up and down in weight and the final picture is NOT the highest weight and the text may conclude with something like "In this picture I weigh _____, I feel healthiest and sexiest at this weight". In one post it even says "I'd like to lose another _____ or so pounds and stabilize at around ______." I can't see how that is ok but that same talk on the Health Board is not ok.


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## LillyBBBW (Nov 20, 2009)

butch said:


> Warning: the following may sound like diet talk. If it seems to break the 'no diet talk rule' please report it, as obviously I'm not in a place to judge whether it is, being a mod and all that myself.
> 
> 
> I have a question. Could those of you who want to talk about weight loss explain to me why the focus on pounds lost and gained appears to be the most compelling part of the discussion of dieting and weight loss? If the reason people want to discuss weight loss is because it is the focus of one's improved health and well-being, then why can't that same discussion be held talking about everything that goes into the process without focusing on numbers?
> ...



I probably don't qualify to answer this. I'm one of the meanies here who don't want to see diet talk happen here. Nevertheless I currently am dieting and from my observation, you can't discuss it without the obligatory measures. It's the proof in the pudding so to speak. For example, as a supersized person it takes a lot to fuel this body. The standard concepts behind weight loss tend to meet with defeat simply based on not getting enough nutrients to propel a 400+ pound body to full capacity. The body doesn't even have enough energy to fuel the process of weight loss let alone maintining mental focus and all that stuff on a diet currently described as balanced and healthy for the average person. So for super sized weight loss it's a slow and unique process balancing act that only a tried true super sized person, particularly female, would be able to relate to or have experience with. 

If you look hard enough, there are a few ideas floating around but some of them are horribly dangerous. Many times the dangerous risks are deliberately witheld and you don't get to hear from the people who are left crippled because of a diet designed by a body builder who seemed like he knew what he was doing. The way to learn what's new and happening among SS people is to ask around, something that is forbidden here. Part of that discussion includes watching and measuring to see if it's working -- it can't be too fast or too slow. Also bear in mind everyone is going to have different experiences with it so what is a blooming success for one person will be an abyssmal failure for another. Their current idea will have to be abandoned for another and the process of watching what happens begins again with doctors and family members breathing down your back the whole way down. It's trial and error and without a forum in which to ask questions and discuss issues unique to our disposition we're all individually feeling our way around in the dark within close proximity to each other. This is especially troubling for those for whom weight loss is do or die. Their disposition is critical and somethig absolutely *must* be done. There are people right here who've already traveled that way and there is no arena in which to seek help from anyone other than the standard cheerleading that goes on elsewhere. Here would conceptually be a more sane approach to weight loss based on fact and not concept or hype. Elsewhere the advice would be fantasy and arbitrary. The changes and rebellion in a supersized body going through weight loss simply aren't the same as it is for the average dieter and I personally wouldnt be excited to be smugly lectured by a bikinin clad swimsuit model who lost 60 pounds on slimfast. Her body's response to dieting is not going to be like mine or like someone at 500+ who needs to lose 150 pounds to still be twice what she weighs. There is simply no common ground there.

In defense of my stance on not wanting weight loss talk here. I think an arena such as the one I described above needs to exist. I'm just not so certain we should insist that it exist here. People want a weight loss free zone and I think that desire should be respected. I'm in favor of any attempt to build something elsewhere though.


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## MissToodles (Nov 20, 2009)

that's not the focus of my discussion. I don't think I ever brought up weight loss in that context. I can tell you life is a lot easier and I can move so much better now. I try not to focus on mainstream diet boards, because I've been very fat and don't care what others think. my body, my life, I have to be comfortable in it. I guess there's so much emotional baggage attached to certain numbers that you need to remove yourself from that mindset.

again, I was afraid if I brought up issues of improved mobility and all that fun stuff, I would be considered a weight loss shill anyway. sometimes I feel like people here think the only way you should lose weight if you're in a dire situtation, on death's door so to speak (not quite that but you know, ailing health). I was young and not doing well. I won't go into family history and bore everyone. I'll respect that this community doesn't allow weight loss talk. It'll forever be our albatross much like cochlear implantation in the Deaf community.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Nov 20, 2009)

MissToodles said:


> sometimes I feel like people here think the only way you should lose weight if you're in a dire situtation, on death's door so to speak (not quite that but you know, ailing health).



And even then you can't talk about it. I have seen people in this thread, speaking of recent numbers lost, but if I so much as breathe in the downward direction it is a no no. The last time people on this site encouraged weight loss was when Lexi (RIP) was struggling. And even then they were supportive, it was more like "well, you should lose weight, duh" sort of thing.

I don't even care anymore. I'm going to do what I'm going to do. I have facebook to brag about #s lost. Here I brag about stuffing my face. It's very dysfunctional, but it works....I guess.


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## mergirl (Nov 20, 2009)

LoveBHMS said:


> The numbers question is interesting too. On the Weight Board with the "Skinniest and Fattest" pictures, all of them state how much the subject weighed in the picture. Some posts have several photos in which the subject goes up and down in weight and the final picture is NOT the highest weight and the text may conclude with something like "In this picture I weigh _____, I feel healthiest and sexiest at this weight". In one post it even says "I'd like to lose another _____ or so pounds and stabilize at around ______." I can't see how that is ok but that same talk on the Health Board is not ok.



To be honest THIS is the main reason i find it weird that numbers can't be discussed. They seem to be ok in a fetish setting here and to describe how much weight is gained but not in a health or general info sense (one which is subjective and not about fetish). 
Anyway, otherwise, i think that Butch, the way you describe is a nicer and i think politically more fat friendly way of saying 'i have lost weight' without actually saying it. That sounds snarky i just realised.. but i didn't mean it that way.. I think some of the ways you describe focus less on numbers and more on accomplishments almost, which i think is good. I guess, its more the disparity between who is allowed to discuss numbers that sticks in my craw. 
Anyway..Butch...you brought this up.. now you need to get it back on track to the OP!!


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## mergirl (Nov 20, 2009)

LillyBBBW said:


> In defense of my stance on not wanting weight loss talk here. I think an arena such as the one I described above needs to exist. I'm just not so certain we should insist that it exist here. People want a weight loss free zone and I think that desire should be respected. I'm in favor of any attempt to build something elsewhere though.



Lilly, i wanted to quote your whole post, as it was insightful and the 'truth was pishin oot of it'!! 
What about a weightloss sub forum- so that people who didn't want to see just wouldn't go there and the people who needed it could have somewhere to find support? Just like the fetish area at the moment- Quite a few people don't want or like many of the fetishes discussed on the site but they are in a sub forum where people don't have to look if they don't want.


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## Tina (Nov 20, 2009)

LoveBHMS said:


> In one post it even says "I'd like to lose another _____ or so pounds and stabilize at around ______." I can't see how that is ok but that same talk on the Health Board is not ok.





mergirl said:


> I think some of the ways you describe focus less on numbers and more on accomplishments almost, which i think is good. I guess, its more the disparity between who is allowed to discuss numbers that sticks in my craw.
> Anyway..Butch...you brought this up.. now you need to get it back on track to the OP!!


All I can say is that, please if you see weightloss numbers being discussed, report it, as we cannot see every single thing -- even sometimes in threads we are participating in. Just because something is posted here it doesn't mean it's condoned. What it often means is that no one has reported it and it hasn't been seen.

All I know is that it was not easy to get to the point where this thread was even allowed to exist, but it does. And yet that's not enough, there has to be diet talk and weight loss talk and talk of numbers, when at first people were saying they just wanted a space to talk about EDs here. I know people get sick of hearing, "if you want this or that, go make it yourself, because it's not allowed here," but that is the truth of it. If this thread is not good enough, and if there must be talk of numbers and diets, weight lost, etc, then the thread might as well be closed again, because it is now not being used for what those who have written us claimed it was needed for; now it is being used to discuss the desire to be able to have weight loss talk here. If this is all it's going to be used for, it will just be closed again, because it will not be serving its purpose, and good luck getting another thread for EDs on this board.



mergirl said:


> Lilly, i wanted to quote your whole post, as it was insightful and the 'truth was pishin oot of it'!!
> What about a weightloss sub forum- so that people who didn't want to see just wouldn't go there and the people who needed it could have somewhere to find support? Just like the fetish area at the moment- Quite a few people don't want or like many of the fetishes discussed on the site but they are in a sub forum where people don't have to look if they don't want.


Good luck with that one. Bring it up to Conrad if you like, and watch it not happen. This is not what this place was ever for, and he's been consistent in his desire not to have that here. Make a new place with Dims people who want to discuss the issue, so that you still have the people you get along with, who have a different POV than the standard weight loss boards, and do your thing. It's not that I don't understand the need for some to discuss weight loss, numbers, mobility, etc (though I think the number talk has been drilled into too many of us from childhood, so it's how we were taught to think, but anyway), because goodness knows, I do, and have -- just not here, at Dimensions. As long as you have a place to go with those you enjoy posting with, does it really matter where it is?


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## LillyBBBW (Nov 20, 2009)

mergirl said:


> Lilly, i wanted to quote your whole post, as it was insightful and the 'truth was pishin oot of it'!!
> What about a weightloss sub forum- so that people who didn't want to see just wouldn't go there and the people who needed it could have somewhere to find support? Just like the fetish area at the moment- Quite a few people don't want or like many of the fetishes discussed on the site but they are in a sub forum where people don't have to look if they don't want.



At one time I was very anti diet. Nope nope nope nope. not me. Now I'm old though. I'm old and alone and there's only me to chase those meddling kids away so I have to keep my wits about me. This means a 'touch' of weight loss, at least for now. Like I've said above, I'd love to see a forum for fat weight loss exist.

That being said my memory of being anti diet is still daisy fresh! I don't know what tips these bots off of my existence but it seems I can't make a peep anywhere online without the vermin of acai berry weight loss miracle being scrawled across my screen somewhere. I got sick of it then, I'm still sick of it now. Sure I don't have to click and read so I ignore them. Of course it would be nice to have one place to go where every fat chaser in the world isn't going to come running towards me. The idea that a weight loss forum can exist here, ssh ssh secret secret, and just be ignored is the same as trying to ignore all the diet ads that show up on your myspace/facebook page. Or the spammers who will create personas like 'Bambigirl' here simply to sign on and bomb the place with "OMG i just discovered the best wl secret evar!! ===== > *Click Here!!* Once you open the portal it's pretty much done. Seriously. I think the need for a sanctum from this and from seeing stuff like this is important too.


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## mergirl (Nov 20, 2009)

Tina said:


> All I can say is that, please if you see weightloss numbers being discussed, report it, as we cannot see every single thing -- even sometimes in threads we are participating in. Just because something is posted here it doesn't mean it's condoned. What it often means is that no one has reported it and it hasn't been seen.
> 
> All I know is that it was not easy to get to the point where this thread was even allowed to exist, but it does. And yet that's not enough, there has to be diet talk and weight loss talk and talk of numbers, when at first people were saying they just wanted a space to talk about EDs here. I know people get sick of hearing, "if you want this or that, go make it yourself, because it's not allowed here," but that is the truth of it. If this thread is not good enough, and if there must be talk of numbers and diets, weight lost, etc, then the thread might as well be closed again, because it is now not being used for what those who have written us claimed it was needed for; now it is being used to discuss the desire to be able to have weight loss talk here. If this is all it's going to be used for, it will just be closed again, because it will not be serving its purpose, and good luck getting another thread for EDs on this board.
> 
> ...


Ahh.. i was talking about discussing numbers for weight 'gain'. I think that is allowed. I havn't seen evidence of numbers being discussed in the weight loss depo. 
I know there is to be no talk of actual weight loss, though i never knew that included not talking about talking about weight loss. I was pretty much responding to butch and i think her ideas were good. I don't want this conversation to continue here because i think OE is an important issue and it would be a shame to have the thread closed again. 
I may make a proposal to Conrad that no numbers should be discussed-Including weight gain, just to make it equal. (I imagine some fat people feel crap too when weight gain is discussed..). As you say though..i can't see that happening.. Plus if people are happy they have gained weight i don't really see why they shouldn't be allowed to say so. I have no problem with that actually.


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## Tina (Nov 20, 2009)

I think that it was discussed in this thread before Butch's post, though, and took her post to be in response to the subject and agree with her. This isn't meaning to chide anyone, though I can see where some might take it that way. It's more out of frustration. Wanting to give people all we can, within the bounds, but there still being immovable bounds, and that likely not changing.

Not even attempting to speak for Conrad, but I'm guessing that won't fly, Mer. After all, there are tons of places on the net where weight loss is being talked about, and praising thin men and women and praising those who have lost weight to become thin, but very few places where fat women and men are praised (and I'm not talking naked photos, but just singing the praises of fat people), and where actual weight gain can be discussed, for those who are into it. I don't think it was ever Conrad's goal to make it equal here that there can be no numbers of any kind. And why should it be? This isn't to say I agree with or like everything on the site, because there are a number of places I don't look, purposely. But I think that given that we're surrounded daily by messages about how we aren't good enough as we are and that we need to lose weight -- still, after almost 30 years of NAAFA and fat acceptance and size acceptance efforts -- there's nothing wrong with having a place where weight gain and those numbers can be discussed. It's not my thing, but I haven't a problem with it. Nor do I personally have a problem with not being able to talk about goal weights and diets here. I think it's not only okay to have separate places, but actually preferable, in many ways.


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## superodalisque (Nov 22, 2009)

hey i can relate to people who get tired of hearing the diet talk myself so i understand that position too.


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## Shosh (Nov 22, 2009)

The thing with me and OA is not about weight loss, it is about addressing my addiction to eating, and my frantic behaviour around food.
Everything I am working on is based around that, gaining a more sane way to be around food and eating.


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## superodalisque (Nov 22, 2009)

Shosh said:


> The thing with me and OA is not about weight loss, it is about addressing my addiction to eating, and my frantic behaviour around food.
> Everything I am working on is based around that, gaining a more sane way to be around food and eating.



exactly! and thats why this thread is important


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Nov 22, 2009)

Never heard or talked about dieting in the OA meetings I attended. The themes talked about there were usually along the lines of self worth and relationships with others. 

I first started out by reading a book about Compulsive Overeating. One of the first things it said to do was stop dieting. The book stated that dieting implies there is something wrong with you.....and that notion will not allow you to feel good enough about yourself to ever stop COE (compulsive overeating). You focus too much on a number on the scale and your whole emotional spectrum for a day can be determined by that number. The book had me take that number out of the equation of how I felt about myself and determine my self worth. 

As far as the faith based part, it's very "open" as far as what a person determines to be their "higher power". For example, a pagan could hold a faith in "Earth Mother" if that is what he/she is comfortable with. I never felt a pressure to believe in God......but thought the idea of higher power was used as a release for when a person feels out of control with their life....or eating. 

I'm glad to see this thread is open. This is a subject close to me that I have been very open about on the boards. We NEED this thread, IMHO.


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## Tina (Nov 23, 2009)

GEF, and anyone else who would care to answer, do you feel that parents set their children up for eating disorders by putting them on diets and trying to control their food? Did you have to undergo such crap when you were young?

I remember mother's response to various doctors telling her I would die an early death if I didn't lose weight. After that followed Weight Watchers (that was back before they had any pre-packaged foods, and you had to make your own ketchup, and everything diet tasted like shit (still does, IMO, just not quite as bad). I remember having to bring cans of tuna with mustard for my lunch. Just tuna, out of the can, with mustard on it. That's it. HORRID. So whenever I had a bit of money I'd go to the corner market and buy candy bars. LOTS of candy bars. My mom would buy Pop Tarts and I'd find them, hide them in my room and eat them all. 

At one point, I had to go to a hypnotist who was a complete asshole. He held up a Barbie doll and asked if I wanted to look like Barbie. Being 10 years old or so, I said "yes", because I wanted to look like just about anyone but me, since I was always the fattest wherever I went. But the dude was an idiot. I was never, every hypnotized. I just pretended because I sensed it was so important to my mother. I'd weigh in and not have lost weight and the idiot would lose it, and scream at me that I'd *always be fat and I'll never look like Barbie!!!!* 

Promises of clothes, all kinds of things if I'd lose weight were always involved. To this day if I sense that someone is trying to control my food I flip out a bit. And that's aside from the emotional component to what, how much, and how often I eat in that it's too often an coping mechanism.


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## mergirl (Nov 23, 2009)

Tina said:


> GEF, and anyone else who would care to answer, do you feel that parents set their children up for eating disorders by putting them on diets and trying to control their food? Did you have to undergo such crap when you were young?
> 
> I remember mother's response to various doctors telling her I would die an early death if I didn't lose weight. After that followed Weight Watchers (that was back before they had any pre-packaged foods, and you had to make your own ketchup, and everything diet tasted like shit (still does, IMO, just not quite as bad). I remember having to bring cans of tuna with mustard for my lunch. Just tuna, out of the can, with mustard on it. That's it. HORRID. So whenever I had a bit of money I'd go to the corner market and buy candy bars. LOTS of candy bars. My mom would buy Pop Tarts and I'd find them, hide them in my room and eat them all.
> 
> ...


Tina, i'm not sure whether to answer this because my strange relationship with food seemed to go away at some point (To be replaced with other compulsions) though from all the people i have talked to about eating disorders there seems to be some point in childhood where either they have had a parent who has been diet obsessed (i think children learn so much from these early experiences of 'how to be') or has tried to force them to 'diet' or has made comments to them about their weight. 
The thing with (hopefully i can talk about diets in this context if not feel free to delete) 'diets' like these is that i think they create eating disorders because people feel hungry but are denied food, food is seen as forbidden, they feel 'they' will be seen as failing if they 'give in' to food. Horrible. It is humans nature to eat when we are hungry, so if we starve ourselves in this way we might eat in secret and give more importance to food than we would have if we had just been able to eat what we had wanted. 
I think it can also work in the other direction (thought i don't think the model for eating disorders is as simple as it seems i am making out here). My best friend at school was by medical standards 'overweight' - **Don't read on if you are squeemish** Her mum basically forced her to eat and she wasnt alllowed to leave the table till she had finished. i used to stay over for dinner (I was allowed not to eat everything as i was a guest but i was teased a lot for being thin)- I have a memory of my friend actually throwing up on her plate and her mum made her eat it. It must have really fucked up my friend, i mean obviously as she was subjected to child abuse. We pretty much lost touch when we were teenagers and only met up on a few occasions, each time she was looking more and more thin. My friend who keeps in touch with her said she has a sort of anorexia/bulimia type disorder. To be honest, i don't think it would take an eminant psychologist to work out the main root cause of her disorder. 
I know its not as simple as that; That there may be other life influences or perhaps even a predisposition to addiction etc but i think parental behaviour is usually one of the main reasons for any sort of disordered behaviour. 
In the case of my friend i can see why feeling so out of control as far as food went would make her want to regain control when she was old enough to be able to. I would say with my compulsions they were all to do with having control over something when there was no control in other aspects of my life. 
I'm sorry you went through that Tina, it must have been pretty traumatic. I remember a friend at high school's wee sister used to drink weight watchers shakes for her lunch and she must have been about 12 at the time!!! There are so many reasons why this is wrong, though socially she must have felt really left out. I want to let GD tell her own story if she choses but i remember her saying once thing to me- That when she was younger and her friends would be eating chips (bags of fries) after they went swimming or something, she would feel really left out and be starving because she didn't want to be seen as the 'fat girl eating chips' (though she said that actually she wasn't fat at the time at all but was an early developer) so she would wait till she got home and be secretive about food. 
Its so horrible what we go through and what others put us through when we are children that invariably effects us for the rest of our lives or that we need to fight very hard for it not to affect us.


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## LillyBBBW (Nov 23, 2009)

Tina said:


> GEF, and anyone else who would care to answer, do you feel that parents set their children up for eating disorders by putting them on diets and trying to control their food? Did you have to undergo such crap when you were young?
> 
> I remember mother's response to various doctors telling her I would die an early death if I didn't lose weight. After that followed Weight Watchers (that was back before they had any pre-packaged foods, and you had to make your own ketchup, and everything diet tasted like shit (still does, IMO, just not quite as bad). I remember having to bring cans of tuna with mustard for my lunch. Just tuna, out of the can, with mustard on it. That's it. HORRID. So whenever I had a bit of money I'd go to the corner market and buy candy bars. LOTS of candy bars. My mom would buy Pop Tarts and I'd find them, hide them in my room and eat them all.
> 
> ...



Speaking only for myself I know that my parents played a huge role in the disordered eating I experienced through childhood and adulthood. Not just them but my siblings and the world at large also. I was berated every time I ate. I would eat what was aportioned to me and still be hungry. For this I was made to feel like an animal and spent my whole life hiding food and not wanting to be seen eating. I suffered from depression which I believe was induced by improper nutrition. Who knows why my apetite was so large. I could never understand how the kids I knew could dawdle along knawing for an hour on a piece of cheese giggling while it turns yellow in their hand. My hunger was a physical state. It wasn't some mechanism I used to cope or whatever. Something physical was in play but it was never properly examined or investigated, rather I was blamed and ridiculed like a beast. A lot of well meaning people invested a lot of effort trying to convince me that I was a compulsive eater when actually I was a compulsive starver. lol 

In my parents defense though, they really did try. I was taken to doctors and they ran tests and took blood. Everything said I was normal in every way even though you could look at me and see that I was bigger and taller than every kid my age and I had boobs and hips already. The doctors told them they believed that my eating should be curbed or I would get diabetes or have a stroke, an idea that was pure conjecture with no evidence at all to support it. I feel reluctant to go out on a limb and blame parents so much. People just didn't and still don't know half the stuff they need to and parents are doing the best they can with what they understand. I blame a shitty world system that thrives on apathy and blame for every little thing but that's a rant for another day. At least that's what happened in my case. I don't hold a grudge against my parents but I've made it clear that my weight is not up for discussion.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Nov 24, 2009)

Tina said:


> GEF, and anyone else who would care to answer, do you feel that parents set their children up for eating disorders by putting them on diets and trying to control their food? Did you have to undergo such crap when you were young?
> 
> I remember mother's response to various doctors telling her I would die an early death if I didn't lose weight. After that followed Weight Watchers (that was back before they had any pre-packaged foods, and you had to make your own ketchup, and everything diet tasted like shit (still does, IMO, just not quite as bad). I remember having to bring cans of tuna with mustard for my lunch. Just tuna, out of the can, with mustard on it. That's it. HORRID. So whenever I had a bit of money I'd go to the corner market and buy candy bars. LOTS of candy bars. My mom would buy Pop Tarts and I'd find them, hide them in my room and eat them all.
> 
> ...



Dude. You just wrote my history.

My first diet was about 3 years old. I've been sneaking food ever since.

Every time my mom put me on a diet, she would have me go through the JCPenny catalog and circle all the new clothes I wanted. Talk about torture. I never got any of those clothes, because I could never lose weight.

To make matters worse, my mom was a bit heavy (about 250ish) and she believed fat girls couldn't wear pants. For my first 8 years....YEARS of school, I had to wear a dress every day.....talk about giving the bullies an easy target.

Then I got into high school and refused to wear dresses...so I was allowed black stretch pants, no stipes and t shirts that were super long.

My dad is equally evil, if not more so. He has a food obsession himself and watches everything everyone eats like a hawk. If you had more than you "share" he would come unglued....and it made me feel so shameful.

My parents gave me an eating disorder starting at 3 years old and it just got worse and worse. They also gave me a terrible body image and 0 self respect.

I don't "blame" them, as I am an adult now and in control...sort of....but they did their best and giving me issues.


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## LoveBHMS (Nov 24, 2009)

> GEF, and anyone else who would care to answer, do you feel that parents set their children up for eating disorders by putting them on diets and trying to control their food? Did you have to undergo such crap when you were young?



Yes.

But.

When I was 13, my dad sat me down and told me I looked like a MACK truck, was fat and ugly and that nobody would ever love me. He said the only way i'd ever get married is if all the other girls were taken and some guy got stuck with me. (I was 5'6 and a size 14, so heavy but not SS) Within the year I'd quit eating and was on my way to killing myself. I'd run up and down the stairs after a meal of tomato juice and egg whites, I was cold all the time and wouldn't eat for days. I became bulimic which lasted for around 13 years. In college i'd drive out the side of the highway and throw up so the girls in my house wouldn't know. I abused laxatives and pretty much hated myself forever. I shied away from having female friends because i knew i'd be jealous when they got married since I wouldn't be able to. I joined the hookup culture in college and made sure everyone knew I "wasn't looking for a relationship" since I just knew any guy would laugh at me if he thought I fancied myself girlfriend material.

So I recently moved and live near my dad again. We belong to the same gym. He's a world ranked masters athlete and the Jack Lalanne type who's pushing 70 and bench pressing more than the 30 year olds. Last week I ran into him when I was on the Stairmaster and he came over and said "So how many flights are you doing?" The machine has an LCD readout that tells you how many flights you've climbed, how many miles, how many calories you've burned, etc. I said I never looked at that, I was just aiming for time and intensity. I checked the "flights" readout" and calculated what I figured it would be at the end and I said "About 166 flights" and he said "Well my record is 189 flights in an hour". And I didn't get mad at him at all, he works his tail off and he's super proud of himself. I finished my workout and it turned out I miscalculated and had actually done 199 flights. I was like "huh...nice." Over the next couple of days while working out, I would note the "flights climbed" readouts and tried to increase it. At first it felt like revenge or like I was exorcising my demons, besting him at his own game but eventually it started to feel postive, like a friendly competition.

Yesterday, I ran into him again and waved. We did our respective cardio, and he came over to say hi when I was done. I grinned like the Cheshire Cat and said "I did 229 flights in an hour, I beat your record by 40 flights." I no longer felt angry or resentful, just proud of myself. He gave me a begrudging nod and said "Well I need to get back on there then." I said "Well you should get an age handicap...you got 27 years on me." He said "Age handicaps are bullshit..you never get better if you make excuses." 

It really started to crystalize for me then what he'd really meant all those years ago. He was just trying to help. He meant well. He screwed the pooch on it for sure, but the bottom line is he meant well. He didn't want me to go dateless, get made fun of, miss the prom, or go through any other unhappiness a fat girl would go through. He meant well.

As this thought was flowing through my head, I went to do my stretching. I had my ipod on but as I was lying on the ground pulling my hamstrings, my dad showed up and was standing over me shaking his head. He said "No you're doing this wrong" and he bent down and rearranged my legs and started pushing one leg back towards my face and talked me through the right breathing and resistance the way a yoga teacher would. I didn't feel angry or resentful....I felt really blessed because he was trying to help. Meaning well. Afterwords he said he'd seen me doing situps and he said "There are better core exercises you should be doing...come on...." and he put me through a punishing core workout and gave me a schedule to work on.

Just as we all grow, we have to remember our parents never stop growing either. Your child is always your child but your parent is also always your parent. They can grow and change and get better no matter how old either of you is. I realized we'd come full circle because he'd grown up from a 40 year old who only knew how to threaten and bribe to a nearly 70 year old who gained the wisdom to say "I want what's best for you and I'm going to teach you how to do it. I know you're capable of great strength and accomplishment but I'm not going to get that out of you by bullying you, I'm going to get it out of you by being a parent and showing you how to do it and challenging you and letting you know I think you can do something."

That was very longwinded but it is something that meant a lot to me.


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## vardon_grip (Nov 24, 2009)

LoveBHMS said:


> Yes.
> 
> But.
> 
> ...



The last paragraph was touching. Good for both of you.


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## mergirl (Nov 24, 2009)

vardon_grip said:


> The last paragraph was touching. Good for both of you.


Yes, i agree. Thanks for sharing Loves and i'm sorry you had to go through so much. xx


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Nov 24, 2009)

Tina said:


> GEF, and anyone else who would care to answer, do you feel that parents set their children up for eating disorders by putting them on diets and trying to control their food? Did you have to undergo such crap when you were young?
> 
> I remember mother's response to various doctors telling her I would die an early death if I didn't lose weight. After that followed Weight Watchers (that was back before they had any pre-packaged foods, and you had to make your own ketchup, and everything diet tasted like shit (still does, IMO, just not quite as bad). I remember having to bring cans of tuna with mustard for my lunch. Just tuna, out of the can, with mustard on it. That's it. HORRID. So whenever I had a bit of money I'd go to the corner market and buy candy bars. LOTS of candy bars. My mom would buy Pop Tarts and I'd find them, hide them in my room and eat them all.
> 
> ...



Sorry to read your Mom put you through that shit. Seriously....it's sad to read some of the stories of parents fixating in the weight of their child and missing out on so much beauty that can be found in parent/child relationships. 

To answer your question: absolutely. 

My parents split when I was four.....they didn't bother to tell me. I found out because they took me with them to find an apartment for my father. I asked if that was where we were moving to - they said just Dad. It confused/upset me all at once......my Dad wasn't going to be with us. I started to cry.
They said don't cry, want a chocolate ice cream cone. Bingo.....I was taught to "forget about it" and think about food instead. What a wonderful trick that I have kept close to me most of my life. Thanks so much Mom and Dad. 

I then got to see my Dad twice a year for the rest of my childhood- maybe. My mom never had treats/sweets in the house....I still have an emotional reaction when I think of her and food. Thinking of my time with her in her cold, shitty, nothing to effing eat house still pisses me off....I just grew angry typing this. 

When Dad came or I went to see him....it was like Christmas every day. He treated to restaurants every night, bought us bags full of treats when he came and when he left. First thing he did when we visited him was go shopping and I got to pick out all the junk food I could want....no holds barred. Gee, think I was set up to become a compulsive binger? 

I also recall the depression that would hit me even in childhood whenever I had to come back to NC after a visit with my Dad. Everything in this part of the world was shit to me. I still hate the tiny, nothing town where I grew up. Hate to ride through it. 

Imagine my great confusion as I hit puberty, started gaining some weight (not a lot....just wasn't a petite person anymore) and my father started calling me fat names/taunts.....he was crueler than people out in the world I have encountered in adulthood. He offered me money to lose weight....yet would still do provide all that food on a visit....and insist I eat it. 
What the fuck was my mind/emotions to do with that??

I had two "normal sized" parents.....all three of their children grew up chubby to fat. We were all treated as having something wrong with us over our body weights. I would guess my brother and sister both had my same eating disorder.....though my brother seems to have "stabilized" somewhat since my father died three years ago. My father had to die before he could have any peace or find any self esteem. 

Yeah, I just said that.....it's the truth. 

Food has been my greatest comfort in this world through everything.....and my greatest enemy.

After all that has been said and done though....*I* control my eating now. Bottom line. Learning how to eat has been the most confusing, hard part of my journey.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Nov 26, 2009)

Let's talk some more about addiction.....



> *Who is an Addict?*
> 
> It's not very difficult to become an addict in this candy store we call America.
> 
> ...


http://www.internet-of-the-mind.com/addict.html#biobalance



> Addiction Games & Three Hungers of the Inner Child
> 
> Addiction games are habitual patterns of behavior that feed the three hungers of the Inner Child.
> 
> ...



http://www.internet-of-the-mind.com/addiction_games.html


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## Tina (Nov 26, 2009)

GEF, I've been buried with work, so I haven't had a chance to respond to you, but your post very much resonates with me and I want to thank you for it.

This last post is very informative, and I would add "shopping" to that list. I've known several people addicted to shopping. I think that definition is right on and I think there are several other activities that could be added to the list, too. That second link I find particularly interesting. Thank you.


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## mergirl (Nov 27, 2009)

Oh.. smoking was a difficult one to give up!! That was about a year and a bit ago that i gave up. I still have dreams where i smoke and feel guilty and then wake up and think 'i'm glad i didn't actually smoke'. For some reason i don't even think i could become addicted to gambling..it doesn't 'do it' for me. Though my dad used to be a gambling addict and when i was young my mum came in to find he had sold her iron to get money to put on the horses! She pretty much kept his bankcard for 20 years. 
There are so many alcoholics in scotland-i think much of the drinking people do is actually normalised. I have had/have a few alcoholics in my family, so i try to be careful that i don't drink when i feel depressed in anyway because i have seen 1st hand how much it can destroy a person. I have a couple of friends who have pretty severe drink problems too and its really sad. One friend i actually had to distance myself from as i would invite him over and he would say he wasn't drinking then he would end up really drunk, my stuff would get broken and he even pissed on my couch! The last straw (which was about 10 years coming) was when i had people over and he got steaming drunk, fell onto my toilet seat and when i told him he had just broken my toilet he 'bammed me up' -(Started talking back to me in an agressive way). I just threw him out and pretty much i only ever see him at weddings n stuff now and get drunk late night txts from him.. actually the last one was last week and was at 7.30am (Which is so late its almost acceptable again). I just really couldn't have him in my life anymore as he made me anxious every time i saw him because i had no idea what he was going to do next. 
One of my dads best friends died of alcoholism last year and he was only in his mid/late 40's. 
Scotland really has a problem with alcoholism..its not just a stereotype. Its so sad. 
seriously though, if you go to the pub people really pressure you to drink and if you don't want to they ask you whats wrong with you. Its almost a joke! 
I guess it depends on where you live to an extent as to your drug of choice. 'food addiction' within itself seems to be the most socially accceptable addiction (as food is cheap you don't see people turning to crime to feed their habit, so to speak), though it must be one of the hardest addictions to 'recover?' from being that you can't just 'quit' eating and it seems for most addicts, cold turkey really is the only way.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Nov 28, 2009)

I was talking to someone recently that has a degree in adolescent psychology (doesn't work in the field but was educated about it). The subject of addiction came up and he stated that addicts always have to find a "hobby" after hitting "in recovery". 
Interesting concept to me.....the need to "fill the void" with a more constructive activity. Does that mean the need to fill the void will always be there but we just direct our energies in a different direction? 
Us addicts......I keep realizing we really aren't so "different" from other people.....


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## mergirl (Nov 28, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I was talking to someone recently that has a degree in adolescent psychology (doesn't work in the field but was educated about it). The subject of addiction came up and he stated that addicts always have to find a "hobby" after hitting "in recovery".
> Interesting concept to me.....the need to "fill the void" with a more constructive activity. Does that mean the need to fill the void will always be there but we just direct our energies in a different direction?
> Us addicts......I keep realizing we really aren't so "different" from other people.....


I think it depends on what the addiction was there for in the first place. If it was mainly influenced by boredom or lonelyness then i think that void would have to be filled. With smoking, i would say i started that as a peer thing and the drug itself because addictive to me, so when i quit i wouldn't say i felt i had a void to fill.. though strangely enough it felt like there was something missing for quite a long time. 
Also, i think there is a diffference between addiction and compulsion though i think they are both related. My early experiences with my relationship with food seemed desperatly compulsive..almost like i was compelled to do something. I think this is slighty different to being addicted to something.. only slight though and generally both usually end up in feelings of desperation and feeling out of control. 
What is the diffference between someone that feels they 'need' to go to the gym at least 4 times a week or they wont feel right and someone who feels they need to drink, smoke, eat etc in order for them to feel 'right'. We can be addicted to anything and i think that even if its not technically physically distructive the fact that we feel out of control at all is enough to affect our mental health.


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## HottiMegan (Nov 28, 2009)

Tina said:


> GEF, and anyone else who would care to answer, do you feel that parents set their children up for eating disorders by putting them on diets and trying to control their food? Did you have to undergo such crap when you were young?
> 
> I remember mother's response to various doctors telling her I would die an early death if I didn't lose weight. After that followed Weight Watchers (that was back before they had any pre-packaged foods, and you had to make your own ketchup, and everything diet tasted like shit (still does, IMO, just not quite as bad). I remember having to bring cans of tuna with mustard for my lunch. Just tuna, out of the can, with mustard on it. That's it. HORRID. So whenever I had a bit of money I'd go to the corner market and buy candy bars. LOTS of candy bars. My mom would buy Pop Tarts and I'd find them, hide them in my room and eat them all.
> 
> ...



I TOTALLY think that my eating issues have to do with my mother. I was the ripe old age of 7 (and a model at the time) and remember my mom buying me some pants and talking about how fat i was getting. They were like a size 6x (not as in extra large but fairly normal size, maybe a little longer as i was a tall kid) At 8 she started taking me to weight watchers. Put on a diet at 8!! That's when the sneak eating began. Being ashamed of every morsel that went into my mouth. If i honestly could live without eating another thing, I'd be a happy person. I loathe food. Okay well it's a love hate relationship. I eat as infrequently as i possibly can. I usually wait until I have dizzy spells and the shakes before i even eat. I had a 2 year bout with mild anorexia. All this because at a very fragile age i was told i was wrong.

It's a cyclical thing. My grandmother was always on my moms case about her weight. She was put on amphetamines back when it was a diet drug and lost quite a bit at the time. So it's something my mother has passed on to me. She also is of the opinion that my life cannot really, truly begin until I lose the weight.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Nov 28, 2009)

mergirl said:


> I think it depends on what the addiction was there for in the first place. If it was mainly influenced by boredom or lonelyness then i think that void would have to be filled. With smoking, i would say i started that as a peer thing and the drug itself because addictive to me, so when i quit i wouldn't say i felt i had a void to fill.. though strangely enough it felt like there was something missing for quite a long time.
> Also, i think there is a diffference between addiction and compulsion though i think they are both related. My early experiences with my relationship with food seemed desperatly compulsive..almost like i was compelled to do something. I think this is slighty different to being addicted to something.. only slight though and generally both usually end up in feelings of desperation and feeling out of control.
> What is the diffference between someone that feels they 'need' to go to the gym at least 4 times a week or they wont feel right and someone who feels they need to drink, smoke, eat etc in order for them to feel 'right'. We can be addicted to anything and i think that even if its not technically physically distructive the fact that we feel out of control at all is enough to affect our mental health.



I think you make a good point- there does seem to be differences in addictive substances such what is physically addictive compared to mental addiction. I would say things such as gambling, shopping, sex, etc are mental/emotional/compulsive addictions where as things like cigarettes, alcohol, cocaine, etc are a substance of a different color that can cause physical withdrawal/illness for the addict.


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## Tina (Nov 29, 2009)

Megan, it sounds like some of us has such similar experiences. I wish with all my heart that parents would stop putting their children on diets.

GEF and Mer, I agree. I think that what we might call an addiction might really just be very ingrained, poor coping mechanisms.

So yes, maybe it might be a case of finding a hobby or something, but I spend many, many hours daily on my jewelry business and it hasn't helped to distract me from food... Of course, I'm right here where the fridge and pantry are...


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## mergirl (Nov 29, 2009)

I was thinking more about the parental influence on our sense of self and our relationships with people and things, including food. I know that it would be unwise to 'Blame the parents' for everything but in most cases of the people i have talked to that have disordered eating they usually have a story about their parents which can be related to it. Its funny because i was thinking about my feelings about my own body and if i'm honest, now (though its not always been this way), i really love my body, i have never felt bad showing my body to anyone but strangely enough, i have always 'felt fat' when i have been visiting my parents, even when i was thinner. 'Feeling fat' for me is not a bad thing- If i feel it normally it is just a fact but when it comes to my mother it turns into something else. I feel uncomfortable and not quite right in my body. I can't think of any other reasons for feeling this other than my mother has always had a thing about being fat being the worst thing. This thread has made me realise that i think.. Its strange, how you can find acceptance from your self but that there are certain people who somehow make you feel less acceptable somehow. I don't even think my mum means it..but it happens.


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## katherine22 (Nov 29, 2009)

mergirl said:


> I was thinking more about the parental influence on our sense of self and our relationships with people and things, including food. I know that it would be unwise to 'Blame the parents' for everything but in most cases of the people i have talked to that have disordered eating they usually have a story about their parents which can be related to it.





mergirl said:


> Parents have a profound effect on us whether we want them to or not. If you adore your parents and embrace their values, they are affecting you. If you dislike your parents and abhor their values, there are still affecting you.


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## katherine22 (Nov 29, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I think you make a good point- there does seem to be differences in addictive substances such what is physically addictive compared to mental addiction. I would say things such as gambling, shopping, sex, etc are mental/emotional/compulsive addictions where as things like cigarettes, alcohol, cocaine, etc are a substance of a different color that can cause physical withdrawal/illness for the addict.




The concept of addiction is a social construction to explain compulsive behavior. It is all mental addiction. To say that you are addicted to shopping means that when you have a feeling that you are uncomfortable with you go shopping to cope with the feeling. Whether you go shopping or take methamphetamine, these behaviors indicate that there are thoughts and experiences that you do not want to have.


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## LillyBBBW (Nov 29, 2009)

mergirl said:


> I was thinking more about the parental influence on our sense of self and our relationships with people and things, including food. I know that it would be unwise to 'Blame the parents' for everything but in most cases of the people i have talked to that have disordered eating they usually have a story about their parents which can be related to it. Its funny because i was thinking about my feelings about my own body and if i'm honest, now (though its not always been this way), i really love my body, i have never felt bad showing my body to anyone but strangely enough, i have always 'felt fat' when i have been visiting my parents, even when i was thinner. 'Feeling fat' for me is not a bad thing- If i feel it normally it is just a fact but when it comes to my mother it turns into something else. I feel uncomfortable and not quite right in my body. I can't think of any other reasons for feeling this other than my mother has always had a thing about being fat being the worst thing. This thread has made me realise that i think.. Its strange, how you can find acceptance from your self but that there are certain people who somehow make you feel less acceptable somehow. I don't even think my mum means it..but it happens.



I have six older brothers and a younger sister, my sister and I being from a second marriage with an age gap between us and my brothers. My mom started having children early and in the beginning she employed some methods that in this day and age are acknowledged as being... not so good. As she got older she learned, grew, realized some things and changed her approach. Her dealings with me and my sister were a whole lot different. She was and is a kinder gentler version of her iron fisted self when she raised my brothers. As a result this has formed a great chasm between my brothers and my sister & I. Though we all love each other as a family this is a chasm that my sister and I have always felt and my brothers have cited my mother's behavior towards us as the reason for their bitterness. They are totally resentful of the fact that my mom lets slide things that she never would have allowed in their case. When we make a mistake or have some kind of failing in life -- which everyone does at times -- they are quick to capitolize and have often taken pleasure in our demise even to this day. My sister and I have often felt the subtelty of being excluded and marginalized by them even at family functions and it has been very painful.

Though mom's parenting skills softened when I came along she was by no means perfect. She's made some mistakes and some of them she continues to make. As an adult I'm able to stand back and look at her as a woman and as a human being. I am well aware of my own failings and choose to place all things in perspective. She is what she is and she did the best that she could do with all that she understood. It's all one could ask of a person and being that I'm not perfect myself I think that I can cut her a break since I seem to have no problem doing it for myself when I've been found in the wrong. I'm an adult now and it's up to me to shape who I become, not her anymore. My relationship with her is now loving and with eyes wide open to what she is and what she isn't. As a result we've been able to grow and learn from each other and our relationship is very close, strong and supportive.

This... has not gone over well with my brothers however. The close relationship my sister and I have with my mom is one that they don't have and it merely adds fuel to the ire. I don't know what to do or what to make of it. Maybe my mom needs to apologize to them, something I know she will never do. I'm just beginning to see the wisdom in taking that kind of stance though. I've apologized for things I've done in the past and it turned in to the worst thing I could have ever done. I just feel that essentially her AND my brother's responsiblity ended a long time ago. I have inherited whatever end product is there, good or bad, and can do with it whatever I want. I can destroy the whole thing and start over. I can leave it like it is. I can spend forever angry and resentful which gets draining after a while. I can hate my brothers and turn my entire life in to a giant tool of spite towards them for unfairly targeting my sister and I when we were babies and had nothing at all to do with anything. These are decisions that I have to make on a regular basis and some days are better than others. Funny how it's easier for me to forgive my parents though than it has been for me to forgive my brothers. At times I have to take a step back and realize that the things they do are more about them than they are about me and that has been hard. It's a forever learning and growing process.

The abuse I've dealt with is very mild compared to what some others, even my brothers, have had to face. It's probably a lot easier for me to walk away and turn things around which undercuts my ability to pntificate on anything. I just believe that every person deserves to be free. Sometimes that means looking at the big picture and sometimes that means cutting a thoroughly toxic person out of your life for good. So far I haven't had to do that so I'm lucky. I think it's well and good to step back, take stock of yourself and give yourself permission to move forward without the baggage -- by any means you feel is necessary, if you can.


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## Fascinita (Nov 29, 2009)

I thought some of you might be interested in this series of video lectures on food and gender, hosted on the internet by Harvard's "at home" open lecture site.

The series is split into segments, some upwards of an hour, but well worth watching for anyone interested in eating disorders and the relationship between gender and food.

This link takes you to the front page of the series. Click on individual topics to see series of lectures grouped around issues like obesity and anorexia, sweetness and power, etc. One particular lecture I found eye-opening, for example, was given by a cultural critic who talked about "orthorexia," a newish eating disorder where people are obsessed with eating the "right" kinds of food.

http://athome.harvard.edu/food/1.html


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Nov 29, 2009)

Tina said:


> Megan, it sounds like some of us has such similar experiences. I wish with all my heart that parents would stop putting their children on diets.
> 
> GEF and Mer, I agree. I think that what we might call an addiction might really just be very ingrained, poor coping mechanisms.
> 
> So yes, maybe it might be a case of finding a hobby or something, but I spend many, many hours daily on my jewelry business and it hasn't helped to distract me from food... Of course, I'm right here where the fridge and pantry are...





katherine22 said:


> The concept of addiction is a social construction to explain compulsive behavior. It is all mental addiction. To say that you are addicted to shopping means that when you have a feeling that you are uncomfortable with you go shopping to cope with the feeling. Whether you go shopping or take methamphetamine, these behaviors indicate that there are thoughts and experiences that you do not want to have.



I totally agree Katherine. Never meant to imply that food addiction isn't as serious/consuming as any other type of drug addiction. I freely call myself an addict- and realize this means I am as "bad" as any alcoholic, coke snorter, etc because the reasons I do it and mentality are the same. 
Overeaters Anonymous follows the exact same 12 steps as AA does- it IS the same type of addiction using the same text as alcoholics. 

This is one of my blogs on Myspace now- it's best explained in these paragraphs:

I originally wrote this back in 2007.


> _Addiction_
> 
> 
> Let's talk about addiciton...my addiction. It's pretty much the same as any addiction. I'm sure the alcoholic that is in love with a bottle of gin hates it just as much for all the control it seems to have over his life.
> ...



I have to eat every day- and learn to do so differently. However, I don't have "DTs" from alcohol or drug withdrawal on the same side of that same token. 
Bottom line is though, we all do it for the same reasons. We have to work on fixing what's wrong inside of us before we can "heal" and stop abusing our substance/compulsion of choice.

I have started fights and grown very angry with people over food. I realize now that it really isn't about food but more of me panicking about "not getting what I need". I so fear it.......silly as it sounds when I'm quite capable of giving myself what I need. That recognition has helped me go a long way for learning to cope better with my issues. 

Children of alcoholics can grow up to become alcoholics. I have even read that science has discovered a gene to pre-determine who can/will become an alcoholic. My mother's parents were alcoholics. She is not one but I think I learned/picked up a lot of the mentality/behaviors from her. 
Funny how that worked, IMO, but knowing what is known about alcoholics now, doesn't it make sense that ALL addictive behavior patterns start at the same sources, especially since addictive choices can "cross over" to one another?


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## Tina (Nov 30, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I totally agree Katherine. Never meant to imply that food addiction isn't as serious/consuming as any other type of drug addiction. I freely call myself an addict- and realize this means I am as "bad" as any alcoholic, coke snorter, etc because the reasons I do it and mentality are the same.


I so agree, GEF. I do believe that there are a number of 'addictions' that are not commonly thought to be addictions, but more avoidant or compulsive behaviors. But in fact, I believe that any activity that, in addition to being something that can become compulsive and habitual, but that also changes the brain's chemistry, can become addictive, because a chemical is a chemical, whether it comes from a drugstore, the corner dealer, the liquor store or a chocolate bar. So while I agreed with you above in the previous post I wrote, I, too, consider myself to be food addict, unfortunately.


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## mergirl (Nov 30, 2009)

katherine22 said:


> Parents have a profound effect on us whether we want them to or not. If you adore your parents and embrace their values, they are affecting you. If you dislike your parents and abhor their values, there are still affecting you.


There was something written in the book 'The life of pi' about parental relationships that i liked, i can't remember exactly but it was an analogy where the child is a big sheet of glass which the parent is holding and though it might not get smashed its impossible for it not to get smudged somehow around the edges. Hmm.. i guess that sounded better when i read it now it seems a bit ricki Lake! Though, indeed, i guess we can't avoid being affected by our parents in at least some way.


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## mergirl (Nov 30, 2009)

LillyBBBW said:


> The abuse I've dealt with is very mild compared to what some others, even my brothers, have had to face. It's probably a lot easier for me to walk away and turn things around which undercuts my ability to pntificate on anything. I just believe that every person deserves to be free. Sometimes that means looking at the big picture and sometimes that means cutting a thoroughly toxic person out of your life for good. So far I haven't had to do that so I'm lucky. I think it's well and good to step back, take stock of yourself and give yourself permission to move forward without the baggage -- by any means you feel is necessary, if you can.



I think its important to try to move on from the things that have hurt you. Its really difficult though if they are your parents and they are still hurting you. The feeling uncomfortable physically around my mother is a small drop in the ocean to be honest, which i'm sure i will overcome, though i don't see them all that often so its hard to find time to practice. I moved out when i was about 16 as my dad was very abusive physically and my mum couldn't speak to me after i came out. (Though that is for another thread), It took about half my life for my mum to not totally wince everytime i mentioned my partner (i think she still finds it hard) and i have even forgiven my father for everything he has done. (It took me a while and i really have forgiven him). This, though, was done by removing myself from the situation first, because it was harming me. I had to lay down rules;That there would be no anger or violence directed at me, that my sexuality wouldn't be talked about in a negative way.. etc. If they couldn'd do those things then they wouldn't see me, so they just had to chose. Maby that sounds harsh of me but it was the only way i could stop myself from becoming really bitter and angry above everything. I have mentioned to her that she shouldnt talk about weight to me and to never talk about fat people in a negative light. She seems to be sort of sticking to that, though she still always talks about losing weight, but that is her problem and i just planned ignore her. 
You are right though, you hear of a lot of people who can only actually begin their lives when their parents die, which is really sad. Everyone should be free. I think that freedom can sometimes be the hardest thing to atain, especially if it means severing chords of attachment from our parents. We are hard wired to put up with all sorts of shit from our parents when we are young as an evolutionary means of survival. When we get older i think we are still left with the residue of that. Like you say, parents are human and just as fallable and clueless as us, they are doing what they can, with what they have. I read something recently that said "If you blame your parents who in turn blamed theirs, eventually you would just be blaming some dead people".


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## mergirl (Nov 30, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> I thought some of you might be interested in this series of video lectures on food and gender, hosted on the internet by Harvard's "at home" open lecture site.
> 
> The series is split into segments, some upwards of an hour, but well worth watching for anyone interested in eating disorders and the relationship between gender and food.
> 
> ...


I will try to make some time to watch these. I forget that there are so many diferent eating disorders. Everything from the more common one 'Bulimia' to ones where people feel compelled to eat metal and non edable objects. (you might laugh.. but seriously...when i was younger i had really strong compulsions to eat rocks and stuff!!.. i just had to substitute this for swallowing tictacs whole!!..*Oh dear.. the longer i am here the more of my mental seeps out.. Lol)


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## mergirl (Nov 30, 2009)

katherine22 said:


> The concept of addiction is a social construction to explain compulsive behavior. It is all mental addiction. To say that you are addicted to shopping means that when you have a feeling that you are uncomfortable with you go shopping to cope with the feeling. Whether you go shopping or take methamphetamine, these behaviors indicate that there are thoughts and experiences that you do not want to have.




I guess the only difference would be that 'addiction', is a medical term to describe the processes the brain goes through, whether the 'drug' of choice is being used or you are trying to stop. A compulsion seems to be more of a psychological principal, that doesnt focus so much on brain chemistry but instead on feelings ie, Loss of control, need, want, desire etc.


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## MizzSnakeBite (Nov 30, 2009)

Tina said:


> GEF, and anyone else who would care to answer, do you feel that parents set their children up for eating disorders by putting them on diets and trying to control their food? Did you have to undergo such crap when you were young?
> 
> [COLOR="RoyalBlue"[COLOR="Blue"]]Yes to both questions[/COLOR][/COLOR]
> 
> ...



Oh yes........TONS of promises of clothes.......lose 40lbs (and this was when I was just in 6th or 7th grade) and you'll get these jeans.

I'm the same way, someone just starts to try to control what I eat, how much, I just sorta lose it. I do the exact opposite of what they want; not intentionally, but I still do. When I catch myself doing that, it's a huge struggle not to eat more (or eat lots of junk food).

I too eat as a coping mechanism. Sometimes I eat a bunch as a coping mechanism, and in rare instances, I'll just sort of shut down and pretty much not eat anything. The entire coping mechanism thing reminds me of my last appointment with my pain dr. I told her that some people smoke, drink and/or take drugs as coping mechanisms, and I use food. No, I shouldn't use food to fulfill something that's upsetting me, but I do. She said that once it effects your health, it's not a coping mechanism, and my overeating isn't a coping mechanism.  OK, so it's alright to shoot heroin every so often when you're stressed, but just as long as you don't end up in the ER because of x, y, z it's OK??  I'm sorry, but I just don't get that..... Does that make any sense to any of you? I was already super pissed at her, so I might have just been......who knows lol. Oh, and she said I need to "diet." I mean, come on, doesn't she know diets fail? Once she mentioned the "d" word, I just starting shaking my head at her.

Because she's forcing me to lose weight (by taking away much needed medical services, and no, there's no one else I can find in her specialty that takes Medicaid yet.), I'm finding myself eating more. Don't know what to do.... 

Mizz 
P.S. Part of my reply is in blue under Tina's paragraphs.


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## mergirl (Nov 30, 2009)

MizzSnakeBite said:


> The entire coping mechanism thing reminds me of my last appointment with my pain dr. I told her that some people smoke, drink and/or take drugs as coping mechanisms, and I use food. No, I shouldn't use food to fulfill something that's upsetting me, but I do. She said that once it effects your health, it's not a coping mechanism, and my overeating isn't a coping mechanism.  OK, so it's alright to shoot heroin every so often when you're stressed, but just as long as you don't end up in the ER because of x, y, z it's OK??  I'm sorry, but I just don't get that..... Does that make any sense to any of you? I was already super pissed at her, so I might have just been......who knows lol.
> 
> Because she's forcing me to lose weight (by taking away much needed medical services, and no, there's no one else I can find in her specialty that takes Medicaid yet.), I'm finding myself eating more. Don't know what to do....
> 
> ...



It really pisses me off when GP's give people psychological advice when they are not trained to do so properly!!! It angers me when a GP does not give people proper medical to people because they are fat. I guess getting angry about it doesn't really help but jezus!!!!
The thing she said about "Once something affects your health it stops becoming a coping mechanism" Is utter bullshit! I don't even know what she ment by that?! If your health is affected it makes sense that you might rely on a substance etc MORE because you would feel more stressed. 
I'm not sure how it works over there but here the mental health sector is totally underfunded (Nothing to do with all the money the government get from the pharm companies that supply anti-depressants, weight loss drugs, sedatives etc etc )- So Its really hard to be seen by someone who is more suited to sorting through problems of addiction/compulsion with you. I think in part this is why support groups like oa can be a great help to people.


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## LoveBHMS (Nov 30, 2009)

> The thing she said about "Once something affects your health it stops becoming a coping mechanism" Is utter bullshit! I don't even know what she ment by that?!



My guess is what is meant by that is that a lot of things are ok in moderation and a lot of things that are not really healthy are ok until they start to affect your health. Somebody who is not a food addict or compulsive eater might snuggle into bed with a pint of Ben and Jerry's after a breakup once or twice, but if you're eating a pint of ice cream every night because you're depressed or lonely or unable to stop eating when you're full, that's a problem. Same as if you buy a fabulous new pair of shoes to comfort yourself after a bad week at work---it's a problem when you have 10 pairs of shoes in your closet that you've never worn and can't afford.

Exercise is great for stress reduction and physical health, but if you're spending hours at the gym to avoid going home to a bad marriage or becoming an exercise bulimic (overeating and then over exercising to compensate) you might develop a stress fracture or repetitive motion injury.

Having a few drinks to unwind or take the edge off a bad day is fine, but once you start having blackouts or hiding your drinking or being unable to face normal life situations without booze, then you may need to address a drinking problem.


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## mergirl (Nov 30, 2009)

LoveBHMS said:


> My guess is what is meant by that is that a lot of things are ok in moderation and a lot of things that are not really healthy are ok until they start to affect your health. Somebody who is not a food addict or compulsive eater might snuggle into bed with a pint of Ben and Jerry's after a breakup once or twice, but if you're eating a pint of ice cream every night because you're depressed or lonely or unable to stop eating when you're full, that's a problem. Same as if you buy a fabulous new pair of shoes to comfort yourself after a bad week at work---it's a problem when you have 10 pairs of shoes in your closet that you've never worn and can't afford.
> 
> Exercise is great for stress reduction and physical health, but if you're spending hours at the gym to avoid going home to a bad marriage or becoming an exercise bulimic (overeating and then over exercising to compensate) you might develop a stress fracture or repetitive motion injury.
> 
> Having a few drinks to unwind or take the edge off a bad day is fine, but once you start having blackouts or hiding your drinking or being unable to face normal life situations without booze, then you may need to address a drinking problem.


mmm right.. well the Dr didn't word it very well because even if someones health is affected by something, they are still using it as a coping mechanism. The coping mechanism may be affecting them negatively but is still a coping mechanism. She might have said -"Once your coping mechanisms affects your health, that is when you have to adress your issues". Maby she just worded it badly, but it stopped it from making much sense. Even if you are an alcoholic, drinking alcohol is still your coping mechanism of choice, even though, it may be making you cope less.


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## LillyBBBW (Nov 30, 2009)

LoveBHMS said:


> My guess is what is meant by that is that a lot of things are ok in moderation and a lot of things that are not really healthy are ok until they start to affect your health. Somebody who is not a food addict or compulsive eater might snuggle into bed with a pint of Ben and Jerry's after a breakup once or twice, but if you're eating a pint of ice cream every night because you're depressed or lonely or unable to stop eating when you're full, that's a problem. Same as if you buy a fabulous new pair of shoes to comfort yourself after a bad week at work---it's a problem when you have 10 pairs of shoes in your closet that you've never worn and can't afford.
> 
> Exercise is great for stress reduction and physical health, but if you're spending hours at the gym to avoid going home to a bad marriage or becoming an exercise bulimic (overeating and then over exercising to compensate) you might develop a stress fracture or repetitive motion injury.
> 
> Having a few drinks to unwind or take the edge off a bad day is fine, but once you start having blackouts or hiding your drinking or being unable to face normal life situations without booze, then you may need to address a drinking problem.



I could be misinterpreting things but it sounds to me like that doctor was trying to tell her that there is no such thing as a coping mechanism when it comes to food? That it is basically a mind over matter thing when it's affecting your health which is utter bullshit. For some that may be true but for a lot of people food is their only outlet and they will eat even when they don't really want to because it is guaranteed to produces a temporary high that relieves stress. The jilted lover who crawls in to bed with a pint of ice cream is looking for the endorphin rush to take the edge off. There is a vein-slapping drive to seek relief from suffering the only way s/he knows how. The effect of that is physical but what if you REALLY have a chemical imbalance that you are self medicating with food on a regular basis? It's not just a matter of, "Ooh, my cholesterol is high? I should stop now." There is an underlying issue that may just be circumstancial or it could be something physical, both of which deserve to be taken seriously by a professional who knows what they're doing.


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## Carrie (Aug 19, 2010)

I want to share a book about compulsive eating I read recently that has had a tremendous impact on me, Geneen Roth's *Women Food and God:* An Unexpected Path to Almost Everything. I never dreamed I'd start a sentence with this phrase because I don't typically watch Oprah (nothing against her, I'm just not much of a talk show or daytime tv watcher), but y'know, sometimes you idly flip through channels and come across something interesting. Anyway. THE OTHER DAY ON OPRAH, Oprah was interviewing someone I recognized as Geneen Roth, who's written many excellent books on compulsive eating, and the interview focused on this newest book of hers. I've read and enjoyed many of her books, found myself nodding along and agreeing that she knows what she's talking about, etc., and have come away from them with more insight into why I eat compulsively, but still not quite knowing how to address, or better yet, fix it. But I thought I'd give this newest book a whirl, and I'm *so* thankful I did. Before I go any further, let me assure my fellow heathens (heh!) that "God" in this case does not refer to any sort of theistic being; it refers to... well, for lack of a better way to say it, it refers to the potential joy and peace within us all. 

The basic tenet of the book is that how you eat and interact with food mirrors how you feel about everything. Here's a passage from the book description on Amazon: 

_Now, after more than three decades of studying, teaching and writing about what drives our compulsions with food, Geneen adds a profound new dimension to her work in Women, Food and God. She begins with her most basic concept: The way you eat is inseparable from your core beliefs about being alive. Your relationship with food is an exact mirror of your feelings about love, fear, anger, meaning, transformation and, yes, even God. But it doesn't stop there. Geneen shows how going beyond both the food and feelings takes you deeper into realms of spirit and soul to the bright center of your own life. _

To say I "read" this book is an understatement. I cried my way through it. Within the first few pages I started underlining passages that resonated particularly strongly with me, and realized by the end that 80% of my book is now underlined. It is the first book - heck, any kind of learning experience about eating compulsively, including a helluva lot of therapy - of this kind that has left me feeling not just smarter, but _empowered_. Calm, positive, and focused. And not just about eating, about _everything_. I am reluctant to say too much, as the experience is so new that I still feel like I'm caring for a frail little seedling of hope, gently coaxing it to uncurl its leaves and grow in the light, but I couldn't wait to say anything, in case this book can help anyone else struggling with compulsive eating. 

This woman really gets it. It's *not* about fat or thin, it's not about oversimplification of this disorder (e.g. depression = eat a pint of ice cream), it's not about diets or quick fixes, or ludicrous promises that thinness equals happiness. It's about knowing that an unhealthy relationship with food, like any kind of addiction, affects every single facet of your life, and knowing with every fiber of your being that it's no longer okay to feel this way, and that a better life is possible. And best of all, how to get there. 

The book has done its job. It's up to me now to do the hard work, but I feel more hopeful than I ever have before that I'm up for it. As a good friend and I are so fond of saying..... we'll see. :happy:


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 21, 2010)

Carrie said:


> I want to share a book about compulsive eating I read recently that has had a tremendous impact on me, Geneen Roth's *Women Food and God:* An Unexpected Path to Almost Everything. snipped



Thanks for sharing your review of this book, Carrie. And I'm really glad to hear how much it resonated with you - I live that experience. It reminds me of something CS Lewis said, "We read to know that we are not alone." 

I had been wavering on whether to read this book. But less for the God reasons (I'm all for God-books! ), and more because I wondered how it would be some kind of anti-fat propaganda. But after your glowing review, I am definitely going to pick it up. It's such an interesting thing to think about, and in general I totally agree with the idea that we are totally integrated as a whole, and who we are (our actual selves) permeates every single aspect. I really like paying attention to embodiment - and how we (individually and collectively) live in our physical bodies (eat, move, touch, etc.) and I've been thinking about that more lately. This book seems like a great way to explore that some more. I look forward to picking it up!


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## MizzSnakeBite (Aug 21, 2010)

Carrie said:


> I want to share a book about compulsive eating I read recently that has had a tremendous impact on me, Geneen Roth's *Women Food and God:* An Unexpected Path to Almost Everything. I never dreamed I'd start a sentence with this phrase because I don't typically watch Oprah (nothing against her, I'm just not much of a talk show or daytime tv watcher), but y'know, sometimes you idly flip through channels and come across something interesting. Anyway. THE OTHER DAY ON OPRAH, Oprah was interviewing someone I recognized as Geneen Roth, who's written many excellent books on compulsive eating, and the interview focused on this newest book of hers. I've read and enjoyed many of her books, found myself nodding along and agreeing that she knows what she's talking about, etc., and have come away from them with more insight into why I eat compulsively, but still not quite knowing how to address, or better yet, fix it. But I thought I'd give this newest book a whirl, and I'm *so* thankful I did. Before I go any further, let me assure my fellow heathens (heh!) that "God" in this case does not refer to any sort of theistic being; it refers to... well, for lack of a better way to say it, it refers to the potential joy and peace within us all.
> 
> The basic tenet of the book is that how you eat and interact with food mirrors how you feel about everything. Here's a passage from the book description on Amazon:
> 
> ...



Reading this made me tear up. I'm so happy for you, Carrie. :happy:

My stress and eating has been waaaaaaay out of control. I'm a fellow heathen, so I might have to pick this book up. lol Thanks so much for the recommendation.


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## LillyBBBW (Aug 21, 2010)

mcbeth said:


> Thanks for sharing your review of this book, Carrie. And I'm really glad to hear how much it resonated with you - I live that experience. It reminds me of something CS Lewis said, "We read to know that we are not alone."
> 
> I had been wavering on whether to read this book. But less for the God reasons (I'm all for God-books! ), and more because I wondered how it would be some kind of anti-fat propaganda. But after your glowing review, I am definitely going to pick it up. It's such an interesting thing to think about, and in general I totally agree with the idea that we are totally integrated as a whole, and who we are (our actual selves) permeates every single aspect. I really like paying attention to embodiment - and how we (individually and collectively) live in our physical bodies (eat, move, touch, etc.) and I've been thinking about that more lately. This book seems like a great way to explore that some more. I look forward to picking it up!



For folks who are skimming this, most of the complaints on Amazon about this book was that it wasn't about God at all. (Yeah, I'm the type who goes directly toward the bad reviews. ) The book is getting rave reviews overall but if you're turned off on it because the book has God mentioned in the title don't be. 

I looked for this book at iBooks and it is not yet listed. Geneen Roth's other book When You Eat At The Refrigerator, Pull Up A Chair was there and they offered a free sample. Her writing is really good and she has lots of good stuff in it that can apply to just about anything even if you don't think you need OA. If this book is any indication the one Carrie mentioned must be a smash. Thanks for sharing Carrie.


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## CastingPearls (Aug 21, 2010)

I just ordered it.


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## Carrie (Aug 23, 2010)

mcbeth said:


> Thanks for sharing your review of this book, Carrie. And I'm really glad to hear how much it resonated with you - I live that experience. It reminds me of something CS Lewis said, "We read to know that we are not alone."
> 
> I had been wavering on whether to read this book. But less for the God reasons (I'm all for God-books! ), and more because I wondered how it would be some kind of anti-fat propaganda. But after your glowing review, I am definitely going to pick it up. It's such an interesting thing to think about, and in general I totally agree with the idea that we are totally integrated as a whole, and who we are (our actual selves) permeates every single aspect. I really like paying attention to embodiment - and how we (individually and collectively) live in our physical bodies (eat, move, touch, etc.) and I've been thinking about that more lately. This book seems like a great way to explore that some more. I look forward to picking it up!


Oh, I love that CS Lewis quote, Bethany, that's lovely. And so true. 

I _totally_ understand your fear of books like this being anti-fat propaganda. I have little patience for that kind of message, and it is has no use for me whatsoever. This book does mention weight somewhat, but I felt it was kind of on the fringes - where the eating disorder was very much the central focus of the book, not weight. She says several times that thinness does NOT equal happiness, and there is actually one chapter called "It's Not About the Weight, But it's Not NOT About the Weight," where she very skillfully covers this topic (in a nutshell, compulsive eating is the disorder she wants to treat, not fatness, that weight loss does not equal happiness, but on the other hand, sometimes excess weight does have an impact on overall happiness *if* it affects our lives negatively, etc.). So I think she handles the topic of weight in a very palatable fashion. 

Lilly, Devi, and Elaine: thank you for reading and for your comments, ladies. It means a great deal. :happy:

The book continues to have an impact for me, even once finished. There is a section where the author talks about the fact that many of us become the people our primary caregivers perceive us to be as small children. I tossed that idea around in my head for days until it coalesced into something concrete for me. For as long as I can remember, I have self-identified as this bottomless chasm of need, and want, and greed, and have felt badly about it. Shameful. My proof of it was the fact that my parents thought I was a very demanding child, and never satisfied with what I was given, always pushing for more. My mother did this thing where she'd shake her head sorrowfully and mutter in this sing-songy voice, "neeever satisfiiied" when we'd have issues with that, and it felt like a knife in my heart. I wanted to be satisfied, I didn't want to be demanding. I just never felt like I was getting enough. Enough food, enough love, enough attention, enough acknowledgment. So I always figured they were right, I was greedy, rapacious. A parental-fulfilling prophecy. And I have lived that way ever since, grabbing what I can to make sure I get enough, that I get what I need, food very much included. And I knew without a doubt that this was the root of my eating disorder, that I was, at the core, greedy and always wanting more. Of everything. 

This book, though. It got me thinking some more about it. I have very clear memories as an average-sized little kid of being physically hungry and not being allowed to have seconds because my mom was so wrapped up in her own weight issues and my dad had such issues with her weight. Memories of being a latchkey kid at 6 years old, walking to and from school every day, having to get myself anywhere I wanted to go after school by myself from a very young age because my parents were stretched so thin and, truthfully, I believe, became parents before they were truly ready, before they had really accomplished the things they wanted to do. They loved me and did their best, but I felt their resentment every day; I just didn't know what to call it then. So the thought hit me like a ton of bricks: what if I wasn't really _that_ demanding, that greedy? What if that was just how I felt to them because they didn't have enough to give? If that was just their perception of me, and how they treated me, so I assumed that's who and what I was? What if I was really just a normal kid? What if I'm really just a regular person now, with nothing extraordinarily demanding and greedy about me? 

To call that realization freeing is an understatement. I feel liberated, like I have shrugged off decades of heavy, dusty cloaks and am only now feeling the sun and warm breeze on my skin. It feels very weird, to be almost 40 and just now realizing that something I've always considered a major (and negative) component of my character may have been largely self-constructed and maintained. Like, okay, if I'm not that, then... what the heck am I? And I don't know yet! But finding out feels like a rather grand adventure, one I think I will enjoy very much. 

So. I am doing really well with my eating. This past week I ate like I imagine a regular person without an eating disorder eats - I ate when I was hungry, stopped when I thought I was full, ate what I truly wanted to, ate thoughtfully and mindfully, and enjoyed every bite. The thought of leaving food uneaten on my plate sent me into a panic a few times, and when it did, I allowed the feeling to come, felt it, accepted and acknowledged it, and it passed. I ate raspberries and truly _tasted_ them in all their berrylicious glory for the first time (holy shit, they're tasty!). I still struggle with figuring out what "full" feels like, just regular full. I know what stuffed feels like, of course, but not just... satisfied. I hope this will come as I get further in touch with my body.

I have more to share, but that's enough blabbing for one post!  Thanks for reading, all. I look forward to hearing what you think of the book, or even just on this topic in general.


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## EvilPrincess (Aug 25, 2010)

A suggestion was made to make this thread more inclusive of the different issues/concepts that were being discussed. The title was changed. It will not impact the thread, just make it easier to search. 

thanks EP/Mod


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## Jes (Aug 26, 2010)

hmn. Maybe we should all read this book. Those of us interested, I mean. I sometimes wonder about my own relationship to food. I wish I had a week of free time but I don't. That said, I'll try to get my hands on it in a week or so. Maybe I can keep up or catch up.


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## CastingPearls (Aug 26, 2010)

I just began reading it. Very profound. I've been crying, underlining and making notes on the pages.....I'm keeping this one close to me for a while.


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 27, 2010)

Want to start a thread for this book specifically? I will be reading it soon, too.


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## Carrie (Aug 29, 2010)

EvilPrincess said:


> A suggestion was made to make this thread more inclusive of the different issues/concepts that were being discussed. The title was changed. It will not impact the thread, just make it easier to search.
> 
> thanks EP/Mod


Thanks, EP, much appreciated! 


Jes said:


> hmn. Maybe we should all read this book. Those of us interested, I mean. I sometimes wonder about my own relationship to food. I wish I had a week of free time but I don't. That said, I'll try to get my hands on it in a week or so. Maybe I can keep up or catch up.


It's funny you say that, Jes, Roth actually says at one point that she thinks the book can offer some kind of insight to just about everyone, as she's known very, very few people who truly had NO issues of some kind with food. (she also jokes that she's not exactly objective, in that it's her book, but still!) 


CastingPearls said:


> I just began reading it. Very profound. I've been crying, underlining and making notes on the pages.....I'm keeping this one close to me for a while.


I know exactly what you mean, E. I've been rereading it from the beginning, a few pages a night, and am still finding things that speak to me. I'm so glad you're finding it meaningful. 


mcbeth said:


> Want to start a thread for this book specifically? I will be reading it soon, too.


I think it's probably okay here, B, now that the thread title has been broadened. :bounce:


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## LillyBBBW (Aug 30, 2010)

Jes said:


> hmn. Maybe we should all read this book. Those of us interested, I mean. I sometimes wonder about my own relationship to food. I wish I had a week of free time but I don't. That said, I'll try to get my hands on it in a week or so. Maybe I can keep up or catch up.



I wonder if you can check your local library for an audio version of the book? I see there is one available that is read by Geneen herself though it is not getting the rave reviews the hardcover is getting. One or two complained that her voice is annoying and that she tends to talk to readers like children which was distracting for them. If you can tolerate the presence of the author it may be worth a shot if you can check it out at the library. Audio books when done well are a handy solution if you don't have time to read. I listen and knit during the commute if its something worthwhile.


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## MizzSnakeBite (Sep 9, 2010)

Carrie said:


> I want to share a book about compulsive eating I read recently that has had a tremendous impact on me, Geneen Roth's *Women Food and God:* An Unexpected Path to Almost Everything



I just ordered it; a $5 off promotion came just in time. :happy:


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Oct 13, 2010)

So those of you on my FB will know I just read this book yesterday. I read it all in one go. I'm a slow reader so it took me about 6 or 7 hours, but I just could not put it down.

I could related to everything she said in the book. I won't spoil it for those who are just now getting it, but damn. I had no idea other people had the same weird fears I do. 

I bought this book after going on Amazon.co.uk and buying OA books...it was at the bottom "other people who bought this, also bought W,F,&G". I was skeptical because I'm not big on the whole religion thing...but after reading some of the reviews...I bought it.

I had no idea it was on the Oprah list.  I love that woman. But being in the UK we don't get her real time, we get her last years stuff now.

So I read it all in one go. I didn't cry (that part of my not feeling things problem) and I didn't underline...I couldn't put it down long enough to get a pen. But I recommended the book to my friends on twitter and said I would be starting to read it again today but slower this time. A twit friend said she would read it again with me and we have decided to go through the O questions for the book. To say I am excited is an understatement.

This book helped me find myself in the present. I am so much more aware of my physical being and that I am ok as I am right now.


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## whome (Oct 14, 2010)

mergirl said:


> It would seem to go against their beliefs though.. i'm not sure my friend would be comfortable with a program based around christianity.. i'm not sure it could work for her, as its based around something she doesn't believe in..
> 
> 
> ahhh..you learn something every day! Aww..jeebus
> ...




It is not based in Christianity, it is based on faith not a specific deity.


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## nedflanders1103 (Oct 15, 2010)

I've participated in some of the 'anon' groups before and have also found them to be a bit too 'G-d heavy'. While there are a number of them that really do seem to be jeebus oriented, there are others that endeavor to be less religion-specific and talk only of a 'higher power'. In either event, I've got some fundamental issues with that. More specifically, the programs require the participant to admit that s/he is powerless over his/her addiction, whether it be alcohol, drugs or food, and that only G-d or the 'higher power' can help. To me, that seems kind of like a cult. It also seems that the goal is just to replace one addiction for another - the alcohol, drugs or food, with G-d. So, it doesn't seem to me that it helps the disease, only the symptoms. The person may go thru the 12 step program and emerge 'clean', but, s/he remains an addict. All that said, I cannot be too harsh on the institution of the 'anon' groups, because, as I said above, I've been there with my own addiction and, when I felt I had been to rock bottom, the group helped me in ways I could never repay, and I am a far better person today for it. I do, however, feel that the true help came to me just from being in the group, and I never gave myself to the 12 steps. I found that just being in a group of people who had my same addiction, who I could open up to anonymously, and have none of them not only not look down on me, but say "I've been there too, and there is hope"... that's what really did it.

So, if I have a point to this post, it would be that one shouldn't shy away from the 'anon' groups because of their religious focus. One really does not need to accept that in order to succeed. Indeed, I think that it is much more productive to not admit that you are helpless, because you are not. You may be too willing to give into temptation, but you are never helpless. with the right support, you can take charge of your own destiny. It comes from within, not from without. The 'higher power' does not change you. You change you.

To anyone reading this post who wants to change, begin today by telling yourself, YOU have the power to do it, even if you need help getting there, and it will get better, as long as it is your own priority.


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## LillyBBBW (Oct 18, 2010)

nedflanders1103 said:


> I've participated in some of the 'anon' groups before and have also found them to be a bit too 'G-d heavy'. While there are a number of them that really do seem to be jeebus oriented, there are others that endeavor to be less religion-specific and talk only of a 'higher power'. In either event, I've got some fundamental issues with that. More specifically, the programs require the participant to admit that s/he is powerless over his/her addiction, whether it be alcohol, drugs or food, and that only G-d or the 'higher power' can help. To me, that seems kind of like a cult. It also seems that the goal is just to replace one addiction for another - the alcohol, drugs or food, with G-d. So, it doesn't seem to me that it helps the disease, only the symptoms. The person may go thru the 12 step program and emerge 'clean', but, s/he remains an addict. All that said, I cannot be too harsh on the institution of the 'anon' groups, because, as I said above, I've been there with my own addiction and, when I felt I had been to rock bottom, the group helped me in ways I could never repay, and I am a far better person today for it. I do, however, feel that the true help came to me just from being in the group, and I never gave myself to the 12 steps. I found that just being in a group of people who had my same addiction, who I could open up to anonymously, and have none of them not only not look down on me, but say "I've been there too, and there is hope"... that's what really did it.
> 
> So, if I have a point to this post, it would be that one shouldn't shy away from the 'anon' groups because of their religious focus. One really does not need to accept that in order to succeed. Indeed, I think that it is much more productive to not admit that you are helpless, because you are not. You may be too willing to give into temptation, but you are never helpless. with the right support, you can take charge of your own destiny. It comes from within, not from without. The 'higher power' does not change you. You change you.
> 
> To anyone reading this post who wants to change, begin today by telling yourself, YOU have the power to do it, even if you need help getting there, and it will get better, as long as it is your own priority.



While that would work for some people, it wouldn't work for me and the way I think. I do not have that much power in the world. I don't control the weather, I don't control illness, death, the actions of other people, the banks. There are simply too many things to mention that rise and fall with neither my will or consent. My only powers are to stand there and watch the thing burn to the ground and seek help where help can be found. I simply don't understand why it's considered empowering to ask mom to loan me $50 but it's weakness to rely on the hope of a Higher Power in situations where we have none. Especially if it helps to quelch high anxiety that I would otherwise dispell by means that are distructive to me. If there is no Higher Power I don't see how that really matters in the end. It's simply a tool that is useful to some.


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## fatgirlflyin (Oct 24, 2010)

nedflanders1103 said:


> I've participated in some of the 'anon' groups before and have also found them to be a bit too 'G-d heavy'. While there are a number of them that really do seem to be jeebus oriented, there are others that endeavor to be less religion-specific and talk only of a 'higher power'. In either event, I've got some fundamental issues with that. More specifically, the programs require the participant to admit that s/he is powerless over his/her addiction, whether it be alcohol, drugs or food, and that only G-d or the 'higher power' can help. To me, that seems kind of like a cult. It also seems that the goal is just to replace one addiction for another - the alcohol, drugs or food, with G-d. So, it doesn't seem to me that it helps the disease, only the symptoms. The person may go thru the 12 step program and emerge 'clean', but, s/he remains an addict. All that said, I cannot be too harsh on the institution of the 'anon' groups, because, as I said above, I've been there with my own addiction and, when I felt I had been to rock bottom, the group helped me in ways I could never repay, and I am a far better person today for it. I do, however, feel that the true help came to me just from being in the group, and I never gave myself to the 12 steps. I found that just being in a group of people who had my same addiction, who I could open up to anonymously, and have none of them not only not look down on me, but say "I've been there too, and there is hope"... that's what really did it.
> 
> So, if I have a point to this post, it would be that one shouldn't shy away from the 'anon' groups because of their religious focus. One really does not need to accept that in order to succeed. Indeed, I think that it is much more productive to not admit that you are helpless, because you are not. You may be too willing to give into temptation, but you are never helpless. with the right support, you can take charge of your own destiny. It comes from within, not from without. The 'higher power' does not change you. You change you.
> 
> To anyone reading this post who wants to change, begin today by telling yourself, YOU have the power to do it, even if you need help getting there, and it will get better, as long as it is your own priority.





Addiction is an awful illness which people have no control over. They only have control over the steps they choose to take once they've accepted the fact that they are an addict. An alcoholic can choose to not drink, and stay away from people who drink. A drug addict can choose to not shoot up, snort, or smoke and choose to stay away from people who participate in those activities. This isn't as easy for someone who deals with food issues, they can't stay away from food or from people who eat, since we all have to eat to live. 

I don't believe in God but I've seen faith help people through some tremendously difficult situations. If someone needs to look to a higher power in order to find the strength to stay away from the source of their addiction then by all means I hope they do so.


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## Surlysomething (Oct 24, 2010)

*subscribed*


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## spacedcowgirl (Oct 25, 2010)

Shosh said:


> I do OA, and I actually have a meeting today.
> 
> OA does not stress that your higher power be " Religious" it can be anything of significance to you.
> 
> My personal higher power is the group that I belong to. That may change over time. I don't know.



I attended a 12-step eating disorder support group when I was in high school, and this was true there as well. People didn't go into a lot of detail about their own perceptions of a higher power, but when I went to one woman concerned that I couldn't do it right because I considered myself an atheist, she assured me that my HP could be anything I wanted (like the power of the group, as you said).

I am really thankful this thread is here. I'm in my 30s but I feel beyond "old" as far as struggles with food are concerned. I started eating compulsively when I was in middle school and started coming home from school to an empty house. I think it more or less had to do with being picked on at school. I was never a kid who handled anxiety well (I cried easily, got terrible stomachaches, and my parents had taken me to several counselors by the time I was in high school) and I now think I was simply trying to take the edge off that anxiety.

My parents did encourage me to diet from a very young age--for a long time I thought 800-1000 calories/day was the amount all "good people" ate. They weren't abusive or as draconian about it as many of the parents I've seen described here, but there was never any junk food in the house, and I knew that this was because we were too fat. I knew which foods were "good" and which were "bad" and that exercise was supposed to be really exhausting and unpleasant so you could burn lots of calories. 

The counselors they took me to never helped. They'd ask me what was wrong and I'd tell them it was all that I was too fat, if I could just lose weight it would fix everything. In retrospect I'm sure they tried to get at the real issues, but in my memory they basically totally bought this and gave me diet tips. I'm still kind of angry about it. Sometime in high school I discovered Geneen Roth and Overcoming Overeating and although it was an enormous relief to find that I wasn't alone, I was never able to put their methods into practice (either then or as I tried again over the years). I think it was just too open-ended and I had too much trouble sorting out my hunger impulses. Diets made me crazy thinking about food all the time, but I felt a straight "eat whatever you want when hungry, stop when full" (or in the case of OO, "eat whatever you want"--vastly oversimplified of course) was even worse. I felt positively obsessed with food. Mostly I just dieted on and off throughout my teens.

I did attend a 12-step eating disorder group for a while when I was in high school (not OA, just a general 12-step group) and I have to confess that it did nothing but nothing for me. Granted I was not exactly emotionally equipped to "work the program" at my age and with my anxiety, but I just don't think "abstinence" with eating is a fit for me in any case. I feel like if I could stick to a predetermined diet or abstinence eating plan (which to me amounts to a diet) then it would already have happened. I think it's great that many people do find success with this approach, though, because whatever gets folks out of the hell of that compulsion is a-ok with me.

My most "successful" weight loss attempt occurred about 4 years ago. I lost over 100 pounds on Weight Watchers. (I've now gained back 40, surprise surprise.) The thing that was interesting and a bit unexpected about it was that I did, at times, sometimes for fairly long stretches, have a lot more peace with food when I was on that diet than I ever have before in my life. I think it might have been a chemical thing where I stopped eating compulsively long enough that my body sort of "settled down" and it was easier to interpret my hunger and fullness. But the "downs" (having a bad weekend with food and sobbing in my husband's arms about how fat and disgusting and weak I was) were also really bad and I didn't want to live the way WW requires... writing down everything you eat, obsessing over whether you gained weight because you were eating too many green peppers (yes, someone actually did say this once in my meeting), attending meetings where so many people are frustrated and down on themselves and half of the rest are newbie diet evangelists who are just positive that THIS time they'll never be fat again. I just want to be "normal," even though that's probably a pipe dream.

I'm currently working with a nutritionist who uses an approach developed by Ellyn Satter. I'm actually hoping it will be a cross between the structure of Weight Watchers and the intuitive nature of Overcoming Overeating... but heavy (NPI) on the OO side and without a weight loss focus. So far (and how many internet comments have started this way only to end in disaster... but anyway) I am VERY encouraged. Basically at the moment I'm eating set meals but at those meals I eat whatever and however much I want. She tweaks it as I run into problems. I don't know if it's just the allure of something "new" but I feel so much calmer around food now than I have in quite a long time, and more in touch with what I actually want and don't want. I'm definitely going to get "Women Food and God" (I was on the fence but the description here and the experiences posters are describing are very encouraging) as I feel it could make a good companion to my sessions with the nutritionist. I still have hope. I won't pretend not to wish I was thin (ha--at my smallest I was still well into the "overweight" range) again, but I really think that if I can feel truly sane around food, get my weight stable at whatever point that is, and start figuring out how I can do the physical things I love (especially running and strength training) well at that weight, then I will be happy.

I don't know if this is a physical addiction but all the mainstream media and internet scolds who think I just need more "willpower" need to ask themselves whether they honestly think I "enjoy" not only having a socially unacceptable body, but also feeling full to the point of illness and generally unwell, having heartburn, feeling like I have no control over my eating, feeling my pulse race after I eat way too much sugar before bed. There is certainly something terrible and all-consuming about this, regardless of the physical or psychological mechanisms involved.

Sorry for the enormous post. As you can tell, this is a subject very close to my heart.

ETA: In case it's not clear, I am not cheerleading WW or weight loss at all. I just considered that period to be (an inadvertent) part of my "journey" to overcome compulsive eating because even though I went into it with no thought other than "I want to be thin," I did experience some relief from compulsive eating while on the diet, for whatever reason. This was how I started to realize that although dieting makes me even crazier, some structure (not counting calories or fat grams or points or portions, just in terms of an eating schedule and other attempts to set up some kind of routine) may be necessary and useful as I try to eat intuitively/less compulsively.


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## HDANGEL15 (Oct 27, 2010)

I kinda stumbled onto this thread and have tried to read through it slowly over the last few days....stunned as this is a topic very close to my heart that I have never felt *OKAY* sharing about on here w/o it being *DIET* talk. I have been involved in 12 step programs for over 14 yrs....and came into the rooms w/NO GOD and damned if I was gonna fall on that crutch for *LOSERS*....but i learned the Serenity Prayer (ask me via PM if you don't know what that is)...and it had all the answers I NEEDED.....no matter what the situation....I learned what a Higher Power was walking in the woods every day with my dog initially and later on riding motorcycle in the beauty of nature again..and that's where i found peace and serenity.

I was very involved in RFA or FFA (don't even remember what those stand for now)...but I was abstinent from sugar, flour + wheat and any addictive substances such as popcorn / chips etc for about 8 or 9 yrs. I learned what freedom from food felt like and learned the concept of *Peace+ Serenity* and not having my addiction calling out for me to stuff my feelings. I am a compulsive eater and am powerless over food beyond a doubt. There are no 1/2 measures for me....through trial and error and losses of 50# over and over again realizing how POWERLESS I AM...sugar had me driving to the store at all hours of the nite for Ben + JERRYS (yes i have tasted pretty much every flavor) to placate *MY ALONE-NESS* for months at a time...

today yet again i am detoxing (which from my experience gets easier and easier over time)...HALLOWEEN is HELL THOUGH LOL...and I am leaving the city tomorrow to avoid the party I usually go to and stuff myself all nite with sweets, home made and store bought.

Today, one day at a time I am learning how good abstinence from sugar/flour/wheat is for me yet again. A lesson I have learned a dozen times....but fall short on repeatedly over the last decade. In regards to meetings ....I became the only one with any good clean time, and watched the same and new folks come in, and say how they couldn't do it....or others rationalize what they were eating....etc etc...i became too selfish and tired of being the only one at a meeting some nites or...sitting alone waiting for one or 2 to show up from the past. i worked 2 other fellowships already and this was just an overload for me.

I also have run on to long....but i feel like food is something I can't live with and also something i can't live without.....I do pray and meditate regularly and attend 12 step meetings very regularly for other addictions then food, and am so grateful for what i have learned and continue to learn. 

I am also well aware of Genene Roth's books and have read a few, and debating picking up the one discussed here GFW..perhaps I am finally ready after reading such praises for this......

felt great to share about my experiences, strength + I DO HAVE HOPE...lots of it today 

i am not sure if there is too much *diet* talk here or not...i am sure i will be edited if that is the case, apologies


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## HDANGEL15 (Nov 7, 2010)

Carrie said:


> I want to share a book about compulsive eating I read recently that has had a tremendous impact on me, Geneen Roth's
> 
> Snip* I've read and enjoyed many of her books, found myself nodding along and agreeing that she knows what she's talking about, etc., and have come away from them with more insight into why I eat compulsively, but still not quite knowing how to address, or better yet, fix it. But I thought I'd give this newest book a whirl, and I'm *so* thankful I did. Before I go any further, let me assure my fellow heathens (heh!) that "God" in this case does not refer to any sort of theistic being; it refers to... well, for lack of a better way to say it, it refers to the potential joy and peace within us all.
> 
> ...


*
Just finished reading this book myself, after it finally came in at the library. I think it was alot like her other books...but a few of the pearls I came away with were in the final chapters of the book....*COMPULSION + AWARENESS can't happen at the same time* this rings so true to me.....because after all it is about eating through the feelings....she had some new thoughts...I loved the passage about *THE VOICE*....and her confirming its okay to yell at it.....I call it my lower power sometimes...and will be driving down the street YELLING NO NO NO...not toay....or self talking in the grocery store as I scan foods that I DONT WANT TO TAKE HOME....but that VOICE IS CALLING !!!

and finally the meditation at the very end was amazing....thanks CARRIE for posting your thoughts>*


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## Blackjack (Jun 17, 2011)

I just wanted to bump this thread to give a big thank you to the posters in this thread. I've passed on a few of the resources mentioned here, particularly _Women Food and God_, to someone on Tumblr who was asking for help with their issues with overeating and food addiction; they were asking anonymously, and I only just posted, but I'm really hoping that it helps them.

And maybe by bumping this thread, someone else who comes here will be helped, too.


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