# Interesting thing happened



## MissAshley (Aug 23, 2011)

[Trigger warning for fat shame]

I went to visit my mom out of town, and so I took a week off work to visit her. The day I arrived happened to be on my birthday (the 5th), and my mom of course got me a cake, a lovely chocolate/vanilla swirled cake with whipped cream topping.

I went into the kitchen to get the ice cream to accompany my piece of cake. As I was walking through the house with my cake and ice cream on a plate, a middle aged neighbor friend of my mom's boyfriend who I had just met that day stopped me in my tracks. He said, "Do you know what all that is going to do to your body?" I looked at him cynically and raised my eye brow. Then he asks, "Do you know what 'secretary's ass' is?" I said, "What?" and he says "It's when you sit on your butt and eat junk food and then you your butt and thighs widen and spill over the seat when you sit down." Then he asked me to demonstrate by asking me to sit down. I sit down and he goes, "You might not have that now but wait a few years of eating crap like what you have on your plate now and you will" 

I paused with a shocked and appalled look of amusement on my face, "So you think the most important thing that happens to women who eat junk food is that their asses will get big? Oh nevermind my arteries, if my ass gets big, then I might as well die, is that what you are saying?" He said, "No, no, but you are right, the only thing with nutritional value that you are about to slam down right now is the dairy in the ice cream." Mind you, he says all this while puffing a cigarette. 

Then I said, "Ok for one, it's my birthday and that's what people do on their birthday, eat cake and ice cream. And I don't need a health lecture from someone with a cigarette in their hand." He said, "I've been smoking all my life and my health is fine, but nevermind that, this is about you." To which I said, "Well I have been eating junk food all my life and I am still healthy and without getting fat or getting this "secretary's ass" or whatever you call it." I continued to say, "Even if I did get huge from this, I would be just fine with that and I would enjoy every piece of cake along the way. But either way, health is more important than body size." Then I walked away before things got even more heated. 

I know many of you are probably used to this kind of treatment but it's just so weird to me, and I got body shamed for eating my own birthday cake. And I got a feeling that this dude was kinda just trying to give me a hard time jokingly and just to see how I would react, but he was kinda being serious too. But I think he got the hint because I wasn't hesitating to be snarky back to him. 

How would you guys have reacted to that?


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## bigbri (Aug 23, 2011)

"Stick it where the sun don't shine a--h--e!" Women have permission to add a slap across the chops during the comment.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Aug 23, 2011)

I'm assuming that "middle-aged neighbor friend of my mom's boyfriend" means you and he haven't known each other forever and aren't close. It seems as if I've read several posts over the years about male strangers making remarks like this to women, _but I've never read a post about female strangers making this kind of remark to a man_. There was a book out ten years or so ago entitled _Fat is a Feminist Issue_: maybe that's right!


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## SSBBW Katerina (Aug 23, 2011)

What a prick to feel justified in opening his pie hole to make an insipid, disrespectful comment. A simple, "Fvck, You, it's my mutha fvckin' b'day, douchebag. I wouldn't touch you w/ a skinny broad's mantrapper!" Would've been more than appropriate. But I guess not in front of mom. 

To which I'd simply flip 'em the finger of your choosing and enjoy the spoils of your birth rite.

Happy Belated B'day, sugar.

Katerina


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## mossystate (Aug 23, 2011)

Eh. I don't know. I see so many things in your post that just don't mesh. You first sit down for this man, which says to me that you wanted to prove that you are not fat, that you are not one of those fat assed ' secretaries '. You talk about eating junk and hard arteries and say that health is most important......yet you then talk about if you were to " get huge " you would enjoy every cake you ate......which doesn't mesh with your first protestation about health, not size. Ashley...I don't know....I just too often read stuff from you that is not as positive as you think it is. 

*eta...no fat person gets " used to " being abused...saying that makes it seem like it was extra not OK that it happened to you, a person who is not even fat.....hmmmm


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## RedVelvet (Aug 23, 2011)

MissAshley said:


> I know many of you are probably used to this kind of treatment but it's just so weird to me, and I got body shamed for eating my own birthday cake.




Oh yeah...I'm totally used to it. Doesn't effect me nearly as much as it must effect you....

Being fat means that eventually, you don't even notice insults. It creates a magic force field of calm self confidence! 

How miserable it must be to be so much smaller.


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## mango (Aug 23, 2011)

*MissAshley,

Please ignore the trolling of the two previous posts.

I think it's disgusting that a "neighbor friend of your mom's boyfriend" had the audacity to call you out for eating a slice of cake on your birthday. What business is it of his? Who is he to judge?

I don't know how well you are in controlling your response and whether that place is your mom's or her boyfriend's (or shared). But failing a sincere and heartfelt apology, I would have demanded that this rude d_ckhead leave the house immediately. 

Sure - that may have "created a scene" but at least a message would have been sent that his actions/words were unacceptable.

It was your special day and this guy went out of his way to treat you like crap. Don't make assumptions and excuses for his behaviour ("just trying to give me a hard time jokingly and just to see how I would react"). It may be a little late now, but I'd mention it to your mom too.

*


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## Lastminute.Tom (Aug 23, 2011)

I would've given him idiots face, it's the by-product of my fist and unwise opening of the mouth, well probably not I'm not a violent person, but I would've thought about hitting him in the face repeatedly


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## mossystate (Aug 23, 2011)

Ignore the ignorant comment from the previous poster ( that has to be as OK to say as what he just pitched ).

This is not about her and her special day. 

She has put this out as a situation concerning the ugly that is pitched at fat people/the very idea that someone might one day become fat. 


This ain't about the cake...............................hombre.


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## MissAshley (Aug 23, 2011)

Ugh anyway.

Thanks for those of you with support.


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## mossystate (Aug 23, 2011)

MissAshley said:


> Ugh anyway.
> 
> Thanks for those of you with support.



Ashley, you thought that there would be nothing but, " sorry that happened to you, Ashley "? You can't come to a site like this for support, when there is much in your post that is not exactly positive.
It's not nice when someone is treated in an unkind manner when all they are doing is going about their day. It is also not nice to be thrown under a bus while being expected to show support. I don't understand how you can't see this.


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## MissAshley (Aug 23, 2011)

mossystate said:


> Ashley, you thought that there would be nothing but, " sorry that happened to you, Ashley "? You can't come to a site like this for support, when there is much in your post that is not exactly positive.
> It's not nice when someone is treated in an unkind manner when all they are doing is going about their day. It is also not nice to be thrown under a bus while being expected to show support. I don't understand how you can't see this.



Oh no, I'm not surprised that I got criticism.


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## Jes (Aug 23, 2011)

MissAshley said:


> [Trigger warning for fat shame]
> How would you guys have reacted to that?



How would I have reacted as a fat woman? Or how would I have reacted if I were a thin rock calendar model (which you are)? I'm going to say this as calmly as I can, so that you don't feel that I'm dismissing your question, which is a good one for the right audience, but ... I don't think that this (Dims) is the best place for you to pose your question in order to get replies that would be of any use to you. What would you learn from getting dozens of responses from fat women? I think that what you experienced was an attempt at fat shaming, and certainly women allover, regardless of size, have experienced this, but based on the specific issues you bring up and the machinations of your own mind, I don't think a group of fat women (whose experiences have been different than yours) is going to answer your question in a helpful way. Does that make sense?


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## mossystate (Aug 23, 2011)

MissAshley said:


> Oh no, I'm not surprised that I got criticism.



Then you know you responded, in part, in exactly the way that makes many fat people cringe/upset ?

Let me ask one question. Why did you sit in the chair for this man?


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## MissAshley (Aug 23, 2011)

I wasn't even going to bother with this but I know I will be mocked and hounded if I just ignore it. 

I sat down for the man because at the time, I was a little confused at what he was talking about, and I was curious as to whether or not his test on me would prove his point, not because I wanted to "prove" anything.

I have ate junk food throughout my life but not to the point where my health will be affected negatively. And my comment about if I did get huge was just to point out that being big isn't the worst thing in the world like the guy was making it out to be. If that really did happen and I wasn't healthy, then I would act on getting healthy again. But some people get fat and remain healthy. 

About the "you guy are probably used to treatment like this" was because I was trying to point out that the way I was treated was no worse than if I were a fat person. I understand that me being treated this way isn't special or that it hurts me any more than it hurts any of you, I was just trying to relate to people where and share my experience. 


I feel like whatever I say, no matter how I put it will be dissected under a microscope and misunderstood to make me look like a bad guy. Whatever, I'll handle it.


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## Lamia (Aug 23, 2011)

It sounds like to me that this guy was trying to flirt. I know it sounds crazy, but there have been a couple of reality shows about dating where men are told to criticize women or put them down in order to gain their interest. 

The entire thing makes me cringe.

I will add that I personally have never had someone directly confront me about my size in this manner. Name calling and animal sounds from passing morons, but never something this invasive to my personal space. I am not sure how I would have reacted probably complete silence it's how I usually deal with confrontation of any sort.


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## MissAshley (Aug 23, 2011)

Jes said:


> How would I have reacted as a fat woman? Or how would I have reacted if I were a thin rock calendar model (which you are)? I'm going to say this as calmly as I can, so that you don't feel that I'm dismissing your question, which is a good one for the right audience, but ... I don't think that this (Dims) is the best place for you to pose your question in order to get replies that would be of any use to you. What would you learn from getting dozens of responses from fat women? I think that what you experienced was an attempt at fat shaming, and certainly women allover, regardless of size, have experienced this, but based on the specific issues you bring up and the machinations of your own mind, I don't think a group of fat women (whose experiences have been different than yours) is going to answer your question in a helpful way. Does that make sense?



It does make sense, and I definitely see your point. I wasn't attempting to fat shame, and I posed the question because I wanted to engage with members on a personal level. 

I'm still trying to get a feel for this place and trying to get to know people here. I guess I still have a ways to go at that. 





Lamia said:


> It sounds like to me that this guy was trying to flirt. I know it sounds crazy, but there have been a couple of reality shows about dating where men are told to criticize women or put them down in order to gain their interest.
> 
> The entire thing makes me cringe.



Interesting perspective, and that could be true.


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## Cors (Aug 23, 2011)

I am a thin (by Western standards anyway) woman and regularly get strange comments that relate what I eat with my size. I would probably have excused myself when I heard his first line if I don't feel up to calling him out on his ignorance and fat hate.


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## MissAshley (Aug 23, 2011)

Cors said:


> I am a thin (by Western standards anyway) woman and regularly get strange comments that relate what I eat with my size. I would probably have excused myself when I heard his first line if I don't feel up to calling him out on his ignorance and fat hate.



You mean people insinuating you shouldn't eat x y z? This is the first time I have gotten a comment like this. Usually it's "You should eat another burger," not "Put down the cake," which is why I was kind of struck off guard by the whole thing. 

I could have handled it in many different ways, but considering I'm not always good with thinking on my feet, I am pretty happy with how I reacted to him.


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## Jes (Aug 23, 2011)

MissAshley said:


> It does make sense, and I definitely see your point. I wasn't attempting to fat shame, and I posed the question because I wanted to engage with members on a personal level.
> 
> I'm still trying to get a feel for this place and trying to get to know people here. I guess I still have a ways to go at that.
> 
> .



I understand that. I think that what I react to, in your original question, is the knowledge that the kind of critique you're going to get from someone (mr. birthday cake hater) is different than the kind of critique I'd get. 

I'm already fat. This guy doesn't need to see me sit in a chair. He doesn't need to warn me that eating more calories than I expend, or eating things with very little nutritional value, is going to make me fat and/or unhealthy. 

I think, for your post to get you the kind of support (for lack of a better term) and feedback that would be useful to YOU, you'd need to ask other thin/conventionally attractive women who'd had similar run-ins with people. Not b/c we're all so different in some REAL way, but b/c we're often treated very differently by people (on this topic and others). I mean, I can ask my bf for a tampon recommendation, but I'm really only going to listen to my girlfriends, you know?


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## Lamia (Aug 23, 2011)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I'm assuming that "middle-aged neighbor friend of my mom's boyfriend" means you and he haven't known each other forever and aren't close. It seems as if I've read several posts over the years about male strangers making remarks like this to women, _but I've never read a post about female strangers making this kind of remark to a man_. There was a book out ten years or so ago entitled _Fat is a Feminist Issue_: maybe that's right!



That's interesting I've actually noticed people feel far more comfortable being critical of fat men to their face than women, but this is based on my own experiences and perceptions. 

My church growing up I was the only fat girl. The only other person my size was a boy my same age. ADULTS in the church would say things to him and tease him, yet no one said anything to me except a deacon made some comments to me in private that were hateful. 

I was teased at school by my peers, but he wasn't.


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## Cors (Aug 23, 2011)

MissAshley said:


> You mean people insinuating you shouldn't eat x y z? This is the first time I have gotten a comment like this. Usually it's "You should eat another burger," not "Put down the cake," which is why I was kind of struck off guard by the whole thing.


 
Well, many Asians think I am chubby and don't hesitate to make very rude and personal comments about my body and food habits (I believe it is a cultural thing, at least it was where I grew up), so I have fairly thick skin when it comes to that. When I lived in UK and Scandinavia people tend to tell me I am too thin and joke about me puking it all up, which I don't find all that amusing but I find it sadder when they ask me for diet tips and mean it. Most unsolicited comments that relate food with weight tend to get under my skin. When I was younger I used to give them a lecture on SA and the inappropriateness of comments like that but more often than not, people like that are not worth wasting time and energy on.


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## joswitch (Aug 23, 2011)

bigbri said:


> "Stick it where the sun don't shine a--h--e!" * Women have permission to add a slap across the chops during the comment.*



^Ah, no they don't. Violence except in self-defence = wrong. Regardless of gender.


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## mossystate (Aug 23, 2011)

I realize I might not get an answer, but I do think this layer of the conversation should be addressed by the OP, seeing the kind of site this is. Ashley, could you address some of the comments you made in your original post about staying healthy and not getting fat or developing a big ass...but then saying you would enjoy lots of ' junk ' ( leading to hardened arteries, I assume ), even if it meant you would get huge, but health is more important. If you had not mentioned any of it, I would have simply said your experience was unfortunate and the man was a jerk. And, again...why did you sit for him? I don't want to assume it was because you wanted to prove you were not fat.


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## joswitch (Aug 23, 2011)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I'm assuming that "middle-aged neighbor friend of my mom's boyfriend" means you and he haven't known each other forever and aren't close. It seems as if I've read several posts over the years about male strangers making remarks like this to women, _but I've never read a post about female strangers making this kind of remark to a man_. There was a book out ten years or so ago entitled _Fat is a Feminist Issue_: maybe that's right!



One of my guitar students was a "natural" (i.e. not a juicer) bodybuilder. For all that he was built like a shithouse, he also had a bit of a belly on him. Apparently his fiancee was fond of it and cautioned him not to lose it, what with all his working out...

Anyhow. One time he was out in a club and two random girls came up to him and were all like "Eww! You're fat!"
His response:
"And cute! You know you love it!"
They were stuck for words after that.


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## cinnamitch (Aug 23, 2011)

I don't see how any intelligent person could possibly react in any positive way to the incident. Rude is rude whether it is done to a fat or thin person.


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## joswitch (Aug 23, 2011)

@MissAshley - good for you! - for not taking any shit from that fool! *applause*


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## FatAndProud (Aug 23, 2011)

I'm sorry you experienced this sort of ignorance. People are dumb. What's even more shocking are these vultures in this thread that feel their white knighting for fat kind is doing any of us justice.

You did good by sticking up for yourself, but next time a douche does something like that, don't entertain him/her more than the split second it takes you to say "bye!" and turn your back to him/her.


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## MissAshley (Aug 23, 2011)

mossystate said:


> I realize I might not get an answer, but I do think this layer of the conversation should be addressed by the OP, seeing the kind of site this is. Ashley, could you address some of the comments you made in your original post about staying healthy and not getting fat or developing a big ass...but then saying you would enjoy lots of ' junk ' ( leading to hardened arteries, I assume ), even if it meant you would get huge, but health is more important. If you had not mentioned any of it, I would have simply said your experience was unfortunate and the man was a jerk. And, again...why did you sit for him? I don't want to assume it was because you wanted to prove you were not fat.


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MissAshley said:


> I wasn't even going to bother with this but I know I will be mocked and hounded if I just ignore it.
> 
> I sat down for the man because at the time, I was a little confused at what he was talking about, and I was curious as to whether or not his test on me would prove his point, not because I wanted to "prove" anything.
> 
> ...


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## Cors (Aug 23, 2011)

I don't think that sitting down when the man asked is a huge deal on its own. I am fairly sure that many people, fat or not would have done the same. Some of us just freeze or react without thinking in awkward situations and then feel terrible about it after.


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## mossystate (Aug 23, 2011)

Cors said:


> I don't think that sitting down when the man asked is a huge deal on its own. I am fairly sure that many people, fat or not would have done the same. Some of us just freeze or react without thinking in awkward situations and then feel terrible about it after.



I don't think that is a huge deal on its own. I am putting it together with the rest and other things I have read.


And, Ashley, I will read that...my mouse is zipping past stuff and I didn't see it the first time.


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## mossystate (Aug 23, 2011)

Nope, I stand by what I smelled. Carry on.


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## joswitch (Aug 23, 2011)

Cors said:


> I don't think that sitting down when the man asked is a huge deal on its own. I am fairly sure that many people, fat or not would have done the same. Some of us just freeze or react without thinking in awkward situations and then feel terrible about it after.



Most people, especially if they have been raised to be polite and respectful especially to authority / older people, will tend to comply with many requests - unless those requests are immediately, obviously wildly inappropriate. 

A social situation in a familiar setting is one where many people would let their guard down and relax...

And:

People in a state of confusion / stress / tension (e.g. thinking "wtf!?? is 'secretary's ass'??") are more suggestible still. Obeying requests / commands by the confuser is more likely to occur - as subconciosly the confused hope for a resolution to their confusion. This is one of the ways so called "hypnotists" and NLP practitioners work. I learned that from Derren Brown's book. He's made a fortune out of psyche tricks like that.


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## FatAndProud (Aug 23, 2011)

Who cares if she doesn't want to be fat, herself? I can see how one could insinuate that she has negative SELF-body image toward fat, but that doesn't mean she can't be pro-plus size/size acceptance. Not all guys that like fat women are fat. Does that make them the debil and anti-fatz?

Or do you just get a kick out of picking on the thinner woman because you've some hidden agenda? Oh, Dimensions. You are banning the wrong posters.


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## mossystate (Aug 23, 2011)

Whoa. Not what I was saying, there, F&P. Nobody is picking on thinner women...if that was directed at me, only. Look around and see how I don't stand for body type smearing of ANY type. I am looking a little deeper than what is on the surface. Get it straight.


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## FatAndProud (Aug 23, 2011)

mossystate said:


> Whoa. Not what I was saying, there, F&P. Nobody is picking on thinner women...if that was directed at me, only. Look around and see how I don't stand for body type smearing of ANY type. I am looking a little deeper than what is on the surface. Get it straight.



Why do you have to look deeper? She explained herself. You are finding meaning in something that's not there. I don't see how that is fair.


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## Jes (Aug 23, 2011)

FatAndProud said:


> Who cares if she doesn't want to be fat, herself? I can see how one could insinuate that she has negative SELF-body image toward fat, but that doesn't mean she can't be pro-plus size/size acceptance. Not all guys that like fat women are fat. Does that make them the debil and anti-fatz?
> 
> Or do you just get a kick out of picking on the thinner woman because you've some hidden agenda? Oh, Dimensions. You are banning the wrong posters.



I don't know if I'm the 'you' here, but I'm not picking on anyone. And I always have an agenda, but it's rarely hidden.


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## MissAshley (Aug 23, 2011)

I never said I didn't want to be fat. In fact I said that if I happened to get fat, the size of my body wouldn't bother me, and I would be ok with it, unless I got that way by doing damage to my body by eating unhealthily. 


I think there are a couple people here that can't get past why a skinny person wants to be here other than to "make everyone here feel ugly" and "look superior" as I have been accused of. It must suck to be so suspicious and untrusting and feel the need to dissect and research my every word. I can only hope the best for them, but I'm not going to keep bending over backwards to apologize and explain myself repeatedly for the same things every time I visit here.


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## FatAndProud (Aug 23, 2011)

MissAshley said:


> I never said I didn't want to be fat. In fact I said that if I happened to get fat, the size of my body wouldn't bother me, and I would be ok with it, unless I got that way by doing damage to my body by eating unhealthily.
> 
> 
> I think there are a couple people here that can't get past why a skinny person wants to be here other than to "make everyone here feel ugly" and "look superior" as I have been accused of. It must suck to be so suspicious and untrusting and feel the need to dissect and research my every word. I can only hope the best for them, but I'm not going to keep bending over backwards to apologize and explain myself repeatedly for the same things every time I visit here.



You shouldn't feel you have to. I appreciate any ally fat or thin. Hopefully, you don't get scared off!  We've got cookies!


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## mossystate (Aug 23, 2011)

FatAndProud said:


> Why do you have to look deeper? She explained herself. You are finding meaning in something that's not there. I don't see how that is fair.



F&P, I am going to look at patterns. I think it is something lots of people do. Like I said, if her post hadn't been filled with flashing yellow lights to me, it would have been an unfortunate situation where she was treated badly by some jackhole. I realize I am probably always going to see this stuff, and that's why I said I still felt something wasn't meshing so I was going to leave it at that. You don't have to see what I see, or feel how I feel. However, to blindly reach for " get a kick out of picking on the thinner woman " makes no sense and has absolutely no teeth.


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## FatAndProud (Aug 23, 2011)

mossystate said:


> F&P, I am going to look at patterns. I think it is something lots of people do. Like I said, if her post hadn't been filled with flashing yellow lights to me, it would have been an unfortunate situation where she was treated badly by some jackhole. I realize I am probably always going to see this stuff, and that's why I said I still felt something wasn't meshing so I was going to leave it at that. You don't have to see what I see, or feel how I feel. However, to blindly reach for " get a kick out of picking on the thinner woman " makes no sense and has absolutely no teeth.



I stand corrected. I apologize. I mixed Jes's (two s's or one? never got that) with yours. She said something pertaining to the OP's thinner weight. However, why must you dissect what every newer poster says? Or assume what they mean before they have a chance to explain themselves? I know I'm not the only one that notices and I know this is super off topic and again, I apologize.

Her post was well written and thought provoking (obviously, with the responses). She deserves to have her word spoken before you burn her at the stake, is all. I'm not personally attacking you, it's just how the topics are approached that is a bit barbaric, don't you think?


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## mossystate (Aug 23, 2011)

MissAshley said:


> > I never said I didn't want to be fat. In fact I said that if I happened to get fat, the size of my body wouldn't bother me, and I would be ok with it, unless I got that way by doing damage to my body by eating unhealthily.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Jes (Aug 23, 2011)

FatAndProud said:


> I mixed Jes's (two s's or one? never got that)



I don't understand.


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## mossystate (Aug 23, 2011)

FatAndProud said:


> I stand corrected. I apologize. I mixed Jes's (two s's or one? never got that) with yours. She said something pertaining to the OP's thinner weight. However, why must you dissect what every newer poster says? Or assume what they mean before they have a chance to explain themselves? I know I'm not the only one that notices and I know this is super off topic and again, I apologize.
> 
> Her post was well written and thought provoking (obviously, with the responses). She deserves to have her word spoken before you burn her at the stake, is all. I'm not personally attacking you, it's just how the topics are approached that is a bit barbaric, don't you think?



To you, and to some others, yes, it was well written and all that. I saw/see other things there ( as do others ). As for the newer poster dissecting...it's not about newness. Coming to a new site online doesn't always mean the " dissecting " is somehow automatically wrong. If it has something to do with the actual site...where a person posts ( and the response to that from not just me is usually pretty fluffy )...that sort of thing, then " newness " should be taken into consideration. Otherwise, if one is an adult and using their words...i will respect them enough to engage how I want to engage them, and they will do the same.
Barbaric? No. War is barbaric.


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## GlassDaemon (Aug 23, 2011)

I would step awkwardly close to him, lean in to burst his personal space and then very slowly, take a huge bite of my cake and ice cream, lick my lips, smile and walk away. People like that are totally not worth my time, and if he continued to talk, I'd giggle and laugh at him, and proceed to eat more. 

By the way MissAshley, don't let Mossy bother you, she apparently bashes on everyone. My suggestion is to not even respond to her.


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## FatAndProud (Aug 23, 2011)

Jes said:


> I don't understand.



If I were to say "That is Jes's!" Is it...

Jes' or Jes's? Mr. Jones' or Mr. Jones's?


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## Jes (Aug 23, 2011)

FatAndProud said:


> If I were to say "That is Jes's!" Is it...
> 
> Jes' or Jes's? Mr. Jones' or Mr. Jones's?



Ah. Technically, you can do either and still be correct.

But I was more talking about the fact that you seemed upset at something I said, and I didn't understand why.


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## mossystate (Aug 23, 2011)

GlassDaemon said:


> By the way MissAshley, don't let Mossy bother you, she apparently bashes on everyone. My suggestion is to not even respond to her.



:bow:........


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## MissAshley (Aug 23, 2011)

joswitch said:


> @MissAshley - good for you! - for not taking any shit from that fool! *applause*



Haha thanks!




FatAndProud said:


> You shouldn't feel you have to. I appreciate any ally fat or thin. Hopefully, you don't get scared off!  We've got cookies!



Thank you! No I won't be scared off. I'm way too stubborn haha. And I love cookies too much.


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## tigerlily (Aug 24, 2011)

I would sincerely hope to have the strength, wit, and self-control you displayed to keep from knockin' this a-hole out. I probably wouldn't and words would escape me and I would just get out of his presence as fast as I could.


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## FrancescaBombshell (Aug 24, 2011)

I would have lost my mind and he would be wearing the cake... OK so I have a bad temper lol and I know waste of a perfectly good piece of cake and ice cream..  I was thinking to my self how many people with a cigarette hanging out their mouth have tried to give me health advice... Definitely kinda hard to take them serious..


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 24, 2011)

MissAshley said:


> It does make sense, and I definitely see your point. I wasn't attempting to fat shame, and I posed the question because I wanted to engage with members on a personal level.
> 
> I'm still trying to get a feel for this place and trying to get to know people here. I guess I still have a ways to go at that.



[What happened to you was really annoying, no doubt, and that guy sounds like a jerk. No one should be treated that way, and in terms of responding, I'd say that either you can try to educate him, or just walk away and ignore him. I doubt he'd really be open to education, and he really isn't worth your time, so I'd say just roll your eyes and walk away.]

Here's the thing, though. I appreciate that you are interested in size acceptance issues, and being an ally in the fat acceptance movement. Those are great things for anyone to do, fat or thin. The more the merrier. And I get that (for reasons I still don't completely understand) you are wanting to be a part of the community here, and to "engage with members on a personal level" as you put it in your post above.

But engaging personally with a group of people who have very different life experiences from you (at least in terms of fat embodiment) in a forum that is geared toward us having space to talk about those unique experiences, needs extra consideration on your part as a non-fat person. And in places where you don't display that consideration in how you phrase things or in the viewpoints you express, you have to expect that some fat people here are going to be irritated and express that irritation. If you choose to really listen to where some of those irritations are coming from, it may help you learn more about the community here, and especially about what kinds of things are and are not helpful for some of the other fat people here, and why. That can be really important stuff.

Since you aren't a fat person, and you're in a forum about fat stuff, a posture of learning/humility toward that stuff seems really appropriate. That's not to say you can't express your thoughts and disagree...but if you are interested in fat acceptance issues, it seems like it would be helpful for you to hear opinions and experiences of all kinds of different fat people (and maybe especially those who disagree or take issue with what you say).


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## Lamia (Aug 24, 2011)

I really am not seeing where she said anything offensive. I think some of you need to lighten up.


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 24, 2011)

Lamia said:


> I really am not seeing where she said anything offensive. I think some of you need to lighten up.



What's wrong with disagreement? So her post didn't offend you, fine. What's wrong with other people being offended and expressing that? 

Nothing, in my opinion.


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## Lamia (Aug 24, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> What's wrong with disagreement? So her post didn't offend you, fine. What's wrong with other people being offended and expressing that?
> 
> Nothing, in my opinion.



There is nothing wrong with expressing it, especially in the kind and gracious way that you did. I was responding to some of the other posts that seem more like an attack and less like voicing a complaint.


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## gangstadawg (Aug 24, 2011)

FatAndProud said:


> Oh, Dimensions. You are banning the wrong posters.



about time someone said it.


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## AuntHen (Aug 24, 2011)

I thought what Jes said was well explained and is kind of how I feel... but

MissAshley: I find it great that you want to support size acceptance and learn about it etc. However I can understand Mossy's "irritation" because you are not a fat person sharing your fat experience. It would be different if a fat person told this story and you were supportive and said things to show you care and have empathy. But the fact is, you are not fat. It would be like me telling a particular race that I understand the type of prejudiced they have been through and shared a story about it. How can I? I have never been that race.

My sister is slender (size 2) and she tells me about how people say she is anorexic or needs to eat. This hurts her. We can share our experiences of "size issues" but each from our own body perspective. I don't understand how it is to be in her body, she doesn't understand how it is to be in mine.

I know you are probably just trying to relate but I don't feel that stories like this are really going to help.


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## fatgirlflyin (Aug 24, 2011)

FatAndProud said:


> Who cares if she doesn't want to be fat, herself? I can see how one could insinuate that she has negative SELF-body image toward fat, but that doesn't mean she can't be pro-plus size/size acceptance. Not all guys that like fat women are fat. Does that make them the debil and anti-fatz?
> 
> Or do you just get a kick out of picking on the thinner woman because you've some hidden agenda? Oh, Dimensions. You are banning the wrong posters.



She doesn't have to want to be fat herself, hell I'd bet that most FA's here would not know how to function if they woke up fat one day. 

What's not cool is her bringing her self hate here. When she's going on and on about not wanting to get huge, or being the good kind of fat vs the bad kind of fat there's a problem, its not the appropriate forum for that. 

This isn't the first post of this kind here, and sadly it's not going to be the last until the moderators get tired of it and do something about it.


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## Wild Zero (Aug 24, 2011)

Everyone's experiences with body image are invalid (except mine).

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL DIM-mensions.


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## Tina (Aug 24, 2011)

FatAndProud said:


> Why do you have to look deeper? She explained herself. You are finding meaning in something that's not there. I don't see how that is fair.





GlassDaemon said:


> By the way MissAshley, don't let Mossy bother you, she apparently bashes on everyone. My suggestion is to not even respond to her.


And now we have two posters here, bonding, who have made some pretty darned fat-hating comments here in the past. Yay. It's a Love Connection.


fatgirlflyin said:


> She doesn't have to want to be fat herself, hell I'd bet that most FA's here would not know how to function if they woke up fat one day.
> 
> What's not cool is her bringing her self hate here. When she's going on and on about not wanting to get huge, or being the good kind of fat vs the bad kind of fat there's a problem, its not the appropriate forum for that.
> 
> This isn't the first post of this kind here, and sadly it's not going to be the last until the moderators get tired of it and do something about it.


What she said.

Reminds me of the movie Phat Girlz, where the skinny woman comes out and asks Mo'nique's character "does this make me look fat?"

The way I see it is, go to your thin person's board and whinge about someone making you feel fat; do not expect pity here, especially given your posting history.


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## RedVelvet (Aug 24, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> [What happened to you was really annoying, no doubt, and that guy sounds like a jerk. No one should be treated that way, and in terms of responding, I'd say that either you can try to educate him, or just walk away and ignore him. I doubt he'd really be open to education, and he really isn't worth your time, so I'd say just roll your eyes and walk away.]
> 
> Here's the thing, though. I appreciate that you are interested in size acceptance issues, and being an ally in the fat acceptance movement. Those are great things for anyone to do, fat or thin. The more the merrier. And I get that (for reasons I still don't completely understand) you are wanting to be a part of the community here, and to "engage with members on a personal level" as you put it in your post above.
> 
> ...




This...right here? Perfection.

Empathy is good. There is a limit, though, to how much one can understand whilst not actually inhabiting the form being criticized.

The truly JERKY behavior by the relative (?) WAS truly jerky. ...But everything Beth wrote above so perfectly expresses my thoughts I feel like she reached into my head...

Of course she wrote it with a kinder and more deft hand. 

To me, it would be like me saying..."Well, there are many people who don't like redheads, so I know from the unkind things people say about my redheaded looks what it's like to be a black person being discriminated against for their race and appearance."

sure...ok..sucks to be hated on for a hair color, I guess (I am a redhead..so I have actually been there..)...but...doesn't really compare.

So, as a redhead, if I were going into an African American forum I probably would be careful with the "Well hey, some folks don't like redheads...so you know..I feel your pain!" stuff. It would probably not really...fly.

Doesn't mean my redhead experience is always...if you will pardon the expression...cake.

Just means my experience isn't the same ...and suggesting it is...would probably win me some eyerolls, just to START...from the nicest folks there.


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## RedVelvet (Aug 24, 2011)

Wild Zero said:


> Everyone's experiences with body image are invalid (except mine).
> 
> LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL DIM-mensions.




I am actually a huge fan of yours. I think you are smart and funny as hell. Your political posts have made me laugh many times, actually.

But I don't think this is a matter of invalidation. I think it's really more a matter of false equivalence. People have taken pains to point out the behavior was really shitty.


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## olwen (Aug 24, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> [What happened to you was really annoying, no doubt, and that guy sounds like a jerk. No one should be treated that way, and in terms of responding, I'd say that either you can try to educate him, or just walk away and ignore him. I doubt he'd really be open to education, and he really isn't worth your time, so I'd say just roll your eyes and walk away.]
> 
> Here's the thing, though. I appreciate that you are interested in size acceptance issues, and being an ally in the fat acceptance movement. Those are great things for anyone to do, fat or thin. The more the merrier. And I get that (for reasons I still don't completely understand) you are wanting to be a part of the community here, and to "engage with members on a personal level" as you put it in your post above.
> 
> ...





fat9276 said:


> I thought what Jes said was well explained and is kind of how I feel... but
> 
> MissAshley: I find it great that you want to support size acceptance and learn about it etc. However I can understand Mossy's "irritation" because you are not a fat person sharing your fat experience. It would be different if a fat person told this story and you were supportive and said things to show you care and have empathy. But the fact is, you are not fat. It would be like me telling a particular race that I understand the type of prejudiced they have been through and shared a story about it. How can I? I have never been that race.
> 
> ...





fatgirlflyin said:


> She doesn't have to want to be fat herself, hell I'd bet that most FA's here would not know how to function if they woke up fat one day.
> 
> What's not cool is her bringing her self hate here. When she's going on and on about not wanting to get huge, or being the good kind of fat vs the bad kind of fat there's a problem, its not the appropriate forum for that.
> 
> This isn't the first post of this kind here, and sadly it's not going to be the last until the moderators get tired of it and do something about it.





Tina said:


> And now we have two posters here, bonding, who have made some pretty darned fat-hating comments here in the past. Yay. It's a Love Connection.
> 
> What she said.
> 
> ...





RedVelvet said:


> This...right here? Perfection.
> 
> Empathy is good. There is a limit, though, to how much one can understand whilst not actually inhabiting the form being criticized.
> 
> ...




I gotta agree with everything that has been expressed here. I was going to make the racism analogy myself. Having allies is great and wanted and needed, but to try to gain sympathy and support by making comparisons that miss the mark probably isn't the best strategy, and what's more it's downright confusing.


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## mossystate (Aug 24, 2011)

Wild Zero said:


> Everyone's experiences with body image are invalid (except mine).
> 
> LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL DIM-mensions.



LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Wrong.

Look around and see the support and care thin people get here who are bashed and trashed. The OP has taken something shitty that happened to her and wants support, all the while putting herself above the wrong kind of fat people. But, I will let you get back to posting ( I will find those posts...right? ) all that support of people like her out here, and not just buzz by to be above the ignorant riff-raff.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 24, 2011)

olwen said:


> I gotta agree with everything that has been expressed here. I was going to make the racism analogy myself. Having allies is great and wanted and needed, but to try to gain sympathy and support by making comparisons that miss the mark probably isn't the best strategy, and what's more it's downright confusing.



This thread has made me think a LOT about another type of race analogy too that I have been thinking through lately (unrelated to fat stuff). It's about the idea of white people infiltrating non-white spaces, and what the different viewpoints are about a person with a certain kind of social privilege (in the case of this thread, thin privilege) entering a space especially for people who do not have that particular type of privilege and wanting to be heard, etc. 

There's an interesting blog conversation on this topic from the race angle (especially interesting in the many comments), and while it's far from a 1:1 correspondence, I do think some of it applies to the topic of this thread in that it's about how someone who doesn't have a certain set of experiences may need to think about how they enter a space that is especially for people with that set of experiences. In the blog entry it's a white person coming into a Black space, but some of the more general thoughts and frustrations and advice and whatnot could apply to a thin person entering a fat space.

And, just like here, there are people from inside and outside the group who are on all sides of the issue.


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## Jes (Aug 24, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> And, just like here, there are people from inside and outside the group who are on all sides of the issue.



Interesting. And, you know, I think that most people in the world...at least healthy well-adjusted ones, want to connect with one another. They want to try to look for similarities and minimize differences and collapse the distance between them.


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## butch (Aug 24, 2011)

FWIW, I've never seen Fat&Proud say anything anti-fat, and am surprised to hear her called out like this. Disagree with her POV, fine, but I don't see her as being anti-fat because in this one instance she has a POV that some other fat people disagree with.


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## olwen (Aug 24, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> This thread has made me think a LOT about another type of race analogy too that I have been thinking through lately (unrelated to fat stuff). It's about the idea of white people infiltrating non-white spaces, and what the different viewpoints are about a person with a certain kind of social privilege (in the case of this thread, thin privilege) entering a space especially for people who do not have that particular type of privilege and wanting to be heard, etc.
> 
> There's an interesting blog conversation on this topic from the race angle (especially interesting in the many comments), and while it's far from a 1:1 correspondence, I do think some of it applies to the topic of this thread in that it's about how someone who doesn't have a certain set of experiences may need to think about how they enter a space that is especially for people with that set of experiences. In the blog entry it's a white person coming into a Black space, but some of the more general thoughts and frustrations and advice and whatnot could apply to a thin person entering a fat space.
> 
> And, just like here, there are people from inside and outside the group who are on all sides of the issue.



I haven't checked in on that blog in a while. When it first came out there were a lot of funny entries. 

There's nothing wrong with wanting to be heard, but there's just a way to do it. When a thin person who's never been fat says to a fat person, Oh I know just what you mean... or don't you hate it when X thing happens it rubs me the wrong way. The funny thing is I don't think any white person has ever tried to relate to me along race lines. Sometimes my white friends ask me stupid questions about being black and it reminds me how different our experiences of living in the world are despite having so many things in common that have nothing to do with race.


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## MissAshley (Aug 24, 2011)

Where did I ever say that I didn't want to be fat? And where have I been talking about good fat and bad fat? Unless you are referring to me wanting to be a healthy and that if I was fat and unhealthy, I would take steps to getting healthy again.. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be healthy, but that goes for any size that I happen to be. Of course you can be thin and unhealthy too, as I have been in the past. 

I get the feeling that some people badly want to label me as a "fat hater afterall". I will admit that I have made comments that were insensitive the people here, but those comments were never on purpose. I don't mind if people disagree with me here, and I don't mind if people point out instances where something I have said is insensitive or offensive but just like some of you can see the negative language in my posts, I can also see the malice in yours....and I can tell when certain people are fixing to label me as something I am not.

Note: That doesn't apply to everyone who has disagreed with me, just a couple people who have been doing a little more than just disagreeing with me.

Fat9276, thank you for that perspective. I completely understand that this is a place that is meant to be a safe space for the fat community and the last thing I want to do is be the black cloud that hangs overhead. I know I need to think more carefully about my posts before I publish them.


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## olwen (Aug 24, 2011)

MissAshley said:


> Where did I ever say that I didn't want to be fat? And where have I been talking about good fat and bad fat? Unless you are referring to me wanting to be a healthy and that if I was fat and unhealthy, I would take steps to getting healthy again.. There's nothing wrong with wanting to be healthy, but that goes for any size that I happen to be. Of course you can be thin and unhealthy too, as I have been in the past.
> 
> I get the feeling that some people badly want to label me as a "fat hater afterall". I will admit that I have made comments that were insensitive the people here, but those comments were never on purpose. I don't mind if people disagree with me here, and I don't mind if people point out instances where something I have said is insensitive or offensive but just like some of you can see the negative language in my posts, I can also see the malice in yours....and I can tell when certain people are fixing to label me as something I am not.
> 
> ...




You just have to understand that when people gather under a form of identity (or allegiance or common ground; I realize not every fat person Identifies as fat) they don't want to feel attacked or made to feel like they are under a microscope or being observed by people who don't share in that identity. I can't speak for everyone else about this next thing, but when I saw that you are a journalism student and your interest is body politics I couldn't help but wonder if you are just here to study us for academic reasons. Whether you actually are or not doesn't matter either at this point. I've already had the thought and it hangs there.

And for the record it shouldn't matter whether or not a person is healthy and fat or unhealthy and fat. That doesn't take away one's right to fair treatment in the world at large. Not being discriminated against shouldn't be okay as long as a person is healthy. 

A person's health is really no one else's business. If a person wants to share their health concerns with others that's fine but it shouldn't be used as an argument for it being okay to be fat to a certain point (or even thin to a certain point), which really is what you intimated in your post. I really hope you get this. 

My response to that guy would have been "What I eat is none of your business and my health and size isn't up for debate." and I would have walked away. It's the same thing I would say to someone who would tell me to eat a sandwich if I were thin.


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## FatAndProud (Aug 24, 2011)

If I've ever made anti-fat remarks, I definitely did not intend to harm anyone.

Also, I've been on Dimensions a long time and I've evolved since my join date. I have the old Dimensions to thank for my new-found confidence. I don't know how this sort of atmosphere is conducive to creating more/future confident fat people (or building confidence in FA/FFA). 

I can admit when I am wrong. I can also put my pride aside and apologize.


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## MissAshley (Aug 24, 2011)

olwen said:


> You just have to understand that when people gather under a form of identity (or allegiance or common ground; I realize not every fat person Identifies as fat) they don't want to feel attacked or made to feel like they are under a microscope or being observed by people who don't share in that identity. I can't speak for everyone else about this next thing, but when I saw that you are a journalism student and your interest is body politics I couldn't help but wonder if you are just here to study us for academic reasons. Whether you actually are or not doesn't matter either at this point. I've already had the thought and it hangs there.
> 
> And for the record it shouldn't matter whether or not a person is healthy and fat or unhealthy and fat. That doesn't take away one's right to fair treatment in the world at large. Not being discriminated against shouldn't be okay as long as a person is healthy.
> 
> ...




I agree that someone's else's health is none of my business. I really don't care if people are living unhealthily or healthily, that is their business and their right to be that way even if they want to, which is why I am never one to get up into anyone's business about their life choices. I just care about my own health because I want to live a long life.


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## Fat Brian (Aug 24, 2011)

Ashley, in a lot of ways you still speak the language of the fat hating world that we try to combat here. Even if its subconsciously, those thoughts are ingrained in your view of size issues and eating habits. To post successfully here you will have to do some self examination and remove the old biases that were created by being able to pass in a thin world. There are people here who are fat for hundreds of reasons and being "good" or "bad" had nothing to do with it.


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## Lamia (Aug 24, 2011)

I've read the original post a couple of times and am truly at a loss as to what was so inflammatory. She didn't make a blanket statement about fat people, such as "stay off the scooters" or "don't eat donuts in public". She related an unpleasant experience she had. 

I pulled out what she said and left out what the guy said. So I can break down what was said. I'd like some insight from the offended parties into which parts of this they took personally. I am not being facetious here I truly am trying to understand why you took her story as an affront to you as a fat person. 

"I paused with a shocked and appalled look of amusement on my face, "So you think the most important thing that happens to women who eat junk food is that their asses will get big? Oh never mind my arteries, if my ass gets big, then I might as well die, is that what you are saying?" 

I looked at this response as her calling him on his alleged concern for her health because what it was really about was the size of her ass. Also that as long as she's skinny and has a socially accepted facade of what health is she could be rotting on the inside and it wouldn't matter. 

Then I said, "Ok for one, it's my birthday and that's what people do on their birthday, eat cake and ice cream. And I don't need a health lecture from someone with a cigarette in their hand."

i.e. stfu

"Well I have been eating junk food all my life and I am still healthy and without getting fat or getting this "secretary's ass" or whatever you call it." I continued to say, "Even if I did get huge from this, I would be just fine with that and I would enjoy every piece of cake along the way. But either way, health is more important than body size." Then I walked away before things got even more heated. 

"i.e. junk food isn't the only thing that makes people fat, she eats it and isn't fat and isn't unhealthy so maybe junk food isn't all that bad etc. and then the second part I took to mean she was saying that you can be fat and healthy and as long as she's healthy who cares what size she is."

I know many of you are probably used to this kind of treatment but it's just so weird to me, and I got body shamed for eating my own birthday cake. 

She had a new life experience and it helped her to understand how maybe the constant scrutiny about everything we put in our mouths sucks is this what it's like for fat people etc.


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## gangstadawg (Aug 24, 2011)

Lamia said:


> I've read the original post a couple of times and am truly at a loss as to what was so inflammatory. She didn't make a blanket statement about fat people, such as "stay off the scooters" or "don't eat donuts in public". She related an unpleasant experience she had.
> 
> I pulled out what she said and left out what the guy said. So I can break down what was said. I'd like some insight from the offended parties into which parts of this they took personally. I am not being facetious here I truly am trying to understand why you took her story as an affront to you as a fat person.
> 
> ...



it sucks when you have to break shit down for people.


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## mossystate (Aug 24, 2011)

I think that some of us who took issue with some of what was written have already explained. OK, so I know I did.


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## ConnieLynn (Aug 24, 2011)

olwen said:


> <<snip>>I can't speak for everyone else about this next thing, but when I saw that you are a journalism student and your interest is body politics I couldn't help but wonder if you are just here to study us for academic reasons. Whether you actually are or not doesn't matter either at this point. I've already had the thought and it hangs there.<<snip>>



You pretty much spoke for me.


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## Lamia (Aug 24, 2011)

This makes sense to me then. So the OP is someone people are suspicious of as far as her motives and reason for being here. Perhaps she has said other things that have stuck in people's minds and that previous history has influenced feelings and responses to her posting. 

I got to say I was pretty astonished at the negativity and I couldn't figure out what was so inflammatory. It wasn't what was said, but who said them.


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## Jes (Aug 24, 2011)

Lamia said:


> It wasn't what was said, but who said them.



Not for me, no. I can't think, offhand, of any other posts of hers I've read. I'm sure I have read things, but nothing sticks out in my mind. As I've said, I think her experience and question were valid, but I don't know how helpful an audience of fat people are in answering her. I was glad to see Cors provide feedback.


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## Wild Zero (Aug 24, 2011)

mossystate said:


> LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
> 
> Wrong.
> 
> ...



I have to go, my home planet needs me.


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## mossystate (Aug 24, 2011)

Wild Zero said:


> I have to go, my home planet needs me.



Sorry, I gave to another cause.


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## fatgirlflyin (Aug 25, 2011)

Lamia said:


> This makes sense to me then. So the OP is someone people are suspicious of as far as her motives and reason for being here. Perhaps she has said other things that have stuck in people's minds and that previous history has influenced feelings and responses to her posting.
> 
> I got to say I was pretty astonished at the negativity and I couldn't figure out what was so inflammatory. It wasn't what was said, but who said them.




Sometimes you just need to know your audience. It's become clear time and time again that she doesn't. Her coming in here complaining about being fat, being called fat, or whatever it is this time, when she clearly isn't fat just isn't appropriate, its insensitive to those who have suffered abuse for being fat. How does it go, she can sympathize but not empathize?

There have been times in my life where I've faced discrimination because of my race, do I go into forums that are geared specifically for non white people to complain about that discrimination? No. Why? Because its not the appropriate audience and I as a white woman have not faced 1/100 of the discrimination that some (most/all) of the members of that forum have faced. It would be insensitive and uncaring of me to even think I had the right to do so. Same thing is happening here...


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## Lamia (Aug 25, 2011)

fatgirlflyin said:


> Sometimes you just need to know your audience. It's become clear time and time again that she doesn't. Her coming in here complaining about being fat, being called fat, or whatever it is this time, when she clearly isn't fat just isn't appropriate, its insensitive to those who have suffered abuse for being fat. How does it go, she can sympathize but not empathize?
> 
> There have been times in my life where I've faced discrimination because of my race, do I go into forums that are geared specifically for non white people to complain about that discrimination? No. Why? Because its not the appropriate audience and I as a white woman have not faced 1/100 of the discrimination that some (most/all) of the members of that forum have faced. It would be insensitive and uncaring of me to even think I had the right to do so. Same thing is happening here...



I get what you're saying.


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## Saoirse (Aug 25, 2011)

goddamn the negativity around here all the fucking time is disappointing. she may not be "fat like us", shes she still a PERSON.


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## comaseason (Aug 25, 2011)

Saoirse said:


> goddamn the negativity around here all the fucking time is disappointing. she may not be "fat like us", shes she still a PERSON.



Agreed.
.....


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## Lamia (Aug 25, 2011)

Saoirse said:


> goddamn the negativity around here all the fucking time is disappointing. she may not be "fat like us", shes she still a PERSON.



this very much this!


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 25, 2011)

Whatever! We call each other out on stuff we disagree on all the time on these boards - fat people call out fat people, thin people call out fat people, fat people call out thin people, thin people call out thin people. How ridiculous to act like the reason people have a problem with MissAshley is simply because she's not fat. 

Ridiculous.


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## olwen (Aug 25, 2011)

I'm gonna say it. She doesn't appear to be a gainer or an FFA so why is she here? I question her motives, and I'm totally uncomfortable with her presence here. If there are people who don't care that's fine, and I respect that you are cool with it. I'm just not.


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## Jes (Aug 25, 2011)

We have certainly had a number of thin women join Dims who don't fall into either of those categories Olwen (and now that I think about it, they all did better sexually with FAs than my fat friends who went to bashes, haha. Oh, but that's a story for another day!), so personally I don't think it matters, but you definitely don't have to share my opinion.


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## Lamia (Aug 25, 2011)

olwen said:


> I'm gonna say it. She doesn't appear to be a gainer or an FFA so why is she here? I question her motives, and I'm totally uncomfortable with her presence here. If there are people who don't care that's fine, and I respect that you are cool with it. I'm just not.



I can understand that so I would block her if I were you. I have a number of people blocked it's made things a lot more enjoyable for me.


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## olwen (Aug 25, 2011)

Jes said:


> We have certainly had a number of thin women join Dims who don't fall into either of those categories Olwen (and now that I think about it, they all did better sexually with FAs than my fat friends who went to bashes, haha. Oh, but that's a story for another day!), so personally I don't think it matters, but you definitely don't have to share my opinion.



Who, when? I honestly have no recollection about that.


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## Mathias (Aug 25, 2011)

olwen said:


> I'm gonna say it. She doesn't appear to be a gainer or an FFA so why is she here? I question her motives, and I'm totally uncomfortable with her presence here. If there are people who don't care that's fine, and I respect that you are cool with it. I'm just not.



Could have avoided the entire thread then. Why call her out? There's plenty of thin people here.


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## penguin (Aug 25, 2011)

olwen said:


> I'm gonna say it. She doesn't appear to be a gainer or an FFA so why is she here? I question her motives, and I'm totally uncomfortable with her presence here. If there are people who don't care that's fine, and I respect that you are cool with it. I'm just not.



She's said she's an FFA and I believe her boyfriend is a BHM.


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## mossystate (Aug 25, 2011)

Oh dear dog...it really isn't about her being thin. :doh:


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## olwen (Aug 25, 2011)

Mathias said:


> Could have avoided the entire thread then. Why call her out? There's plenty of thin people here.



It's not that's she's thin, it's that she's thin and being offensive. 



penguin said:


> She's said she's an FFA and I believe her boyfriend is a BHM.



Okay, I looked for something that said that and couldn't find it.


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## Jes (Aug 25, 2011)

olwen said:


> Who, when? I honestly have no recollection about that.



Oh, the stories I could tell ...  But, really, though it's true, that was just an aside. 

I can fully understand your being curious, but is it unfair to ask people to explain their activity on a certain board based on size alone? I know that I was very upset when the same was done to me; it hurt the sense of community that we have here (such that it is).


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## olwen (Aug 25, 2011)

Jes said:


> Oh, the stories I could tell ...  But, really, though it's true, that was just an aside.
> 
> I can fully understand your being curious, but is it unfair to ask people to explain their activity on a certain board based on size alone? I know that I was very upset when the same was done to me; it hurt the sense of community that we have here (such that it is).



No, I don't think so, but we can disagree.


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 25, 2011)

olwen said:


> I'm gonna say it. She doesn't appear to be a gainer or an FFA so *why is she here*? I question her motives, and I'm totally uncomfortable with her presence here. If there are people who don't care that's fine, and I respect that you are cool with it. I'm just not.



I am sure you already saw these, but just in case you didn't, I took the below from the relevant parts of her introduction posts about why she's here (I cut out the stuff unrelated to that question). 

Here is one from 2010:



> First off, I want to say that I am NOT a big girl, but I am very interested in size acceptance because body image and promoting self esteem happens to a personal platform of mine in which I will be using in my participation in the Miss In. USA pageant later this year. I hope that I am still welcome here, even though I am thin. I am all about heath at every size and loving who you are.



And the re-introduction from 2011:



> I love to compete in pageants. I am going for a few titles within the next year. One of my platforms is promoting a health body image in girls and women. *I am not fat* but I want to be a part of this community of size acceptance because I love to help others see the beauty in themselves.



But I don't want to assume these are still the reasons. Do the above statements still pretty much capture what brought you to the community, MissAshley?


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## Dr. P Marshall (Aug 25, 2011)

Admittedly, I'm almost never here anymore, so I'm not familiar with MissAshley's entire posting history, but I did see her say her boyfriend was a BHM once. I also understand that we were once used as a sociology experiment by someone who later caused a lot of problems and so I get why people are suspicious. Having said that, I actually didn't find the OP offensive, mainly because I'm interpreting this:



MissAshley said:


> [Trigger warning for fat shame]
> 
> "So you think the most important thing that happens to women who eat junk food is that their asses will get big? Oh nevermind my arteries, if my ass gets big, then I might as well die, is that what you are saying?"



very differently from the other posters here, I guess. I thought her point was that this man was so arrogant and sexist as to believe that a woman should be concerned about her weight because it is her responsibility to be what, in his view, is attractive and who cares about her health. How is that different from criticizing male FAs who want a woman to be fat "for them" and who show no regard for the woman's health? I'm not being contentious, I really fail to see the difference.

To the OP, I'm one of the thin FFAs on the board and I have never had anyone body shame me, but I am by nature a real asshole anytime anyone makes any comment about how I should live my life. Most likely I would have asked him why he thought he was good enough to even look at someone as magnificent as myself, let alone comment on what I was doing, but again, I'm an asshole.


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## mossystate (Aug 25, 2011)

I know that I said the guy was a jackhole, and I knew what he was all about. The OP is the one posting here, and she has, in the eyes of more than a few of us, offered up her own bit of ugly. I can't understand how it is not more obvious...but...whatchagonnado.


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## Dr. P Marshall (Aug 25, 2011)

mossystate said:


> IThe OP is the one posting here, and she has, in the eyes of more than a few of us, offered up her own bit of ugly.



So are you saying that people who create ugliness on the boards should be banned? That people who upset other posters and make people feel as if they constantly don't get it and derail threads with their own agenda should be banned?


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## mossystate (Aug 25, 2011)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> So are you saying that people who create ugliness on the boards should be banned? That people who upset other posters and make people feel as if they constantly don't get it and derail threads with their own agenda should be banned?



Huh?

Who, except a few calling for my banning, has said anything about banning?


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## Dr. P Marshall (Aug 25, 2011)

mossystate said:


> Huh?
> 
> Who, except a few calling for my banning, has said anything about banning?



OK, fine, no one said banning. But you're basically saying that because she created ugliness in the past every thread she creates is somehow invalid. That's exactly the reason so many others call for your banning, so I found your stance interesting.


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## mossystate (Aug 25, 2011)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> OK, fine, no one said banning. But you're basically saying that because she created ugliness in the past every thread she creates is somehow invalid. That's exactly the reason so many others call for your banning, so I found your stance interesting.



Sorry, but this makes no sense. In no way did I say that every thread she creates/posts she makes would be/is invalid, because of some of the stuff she has said. I said there was a pattern concerning very particular topics and lines of thinking. And, so many others would also not want to see me gone. Sorry, P.


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## Jes (Aug 25, 2011)

olwen said:


> Okay, I looked for something that said that and couldn't find it.



I watched her video on the youtubes. she's in a pool with a fat guy and, assuming it's not her brother, then maybe she likes fat guys.


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## olwen (Aug 25, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> I am sure you already saw these, but just in case you didn't, I took the below from the relevant parts of her introduction posts about why she's here (I cut out the stuff unrelated to that question).
> 
> Here is one from 2010:
> 
> ...



The posts you quoted didn't quote here, but yes, I did see those posts and I don't feel a thin woman who says "I want to be a part of this community of size acceptance because I love to help others see the beauty in themselves." has any business trying to relate to fat people just to help us feel better about ourselves. The assumption being made is rather ridiculous. Obviously, all fat people have low self esteem and we all need her help to see the error of our ways. 




Jes said:


> I watched her video on the youtubes. she's in a pool with a fat guy and, assuming it's not her brother, then maybe she likes fat guys.



If she's an FFA then fine, but I don't like the presumptions being made here.


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## Blackjack (Aug 25, 2011)

Whether or not the intent is to offend, this isn't the first time that MissAshley has made poorly-worded statements and shown a lack of awareness as to her audience.

I don't think that it's malicious so much as a bit oblivious.


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## Tina (Aug 25, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> Whatever! We call each other out on stuff we disagree on all the time on these boards - fat people call out fat people, thin people call out fat people, fat people call out thin people, thin people call out thin people. How ridiculous to act like the reason people have a problem with MissAshley is simply because she's not fat.
> 
> Ridiculous.


THIS. Totally this.

There have been several thin women here who don't fall into any of the usual categories and most have been just lovely (I'm talking personality and not looks). I simply adored a few of them, and I know I'm not alone. Then we've had some thin FFAs who have been assholes and have acted fat-hating. I don't think that should be tolerated just because they like fat bodies. Just being thin alone has nothing to do with it. Being thin and co-opting fat womens' experiences and being a douche about it is what earns the kinds of responses the clueless MissAshley has earned.


Jes said:


> We have certainly had a number of thin women join Dims who don't fall into either of those categories Olwen (and now that I think about it, they all did better sexually with FAs than my fat friends who went to bashes, haha. Oh, but that's a story for another day!), so personally I don't think it matters, but you definitely don't have to share my opinion.


I know who you mean, Jes, and it's really something isn't it? You've got some of the guys here who've said they're FAs and you don't see them going after any of the fat women, but instead have gone for some of the thin women. Not. Cool. But at least the obvious ones show themselves for the liars they are so that the single fat women can steer clear.


Dr. P Marshall said:


> OK, fine, no one said banning. But you're basically saying that because she created ugliness in the past every thread she creates is somehow invalid. That's exactly the reason so many others call for your banning, so I found your stance interesting.


Dr. P, that's not it really. If a thin person comes here and acts clueless and in that cluelessness says fat-hating or ignorant things, repeatedly, just how much quarter should they be given? Just how many chances before people get sick of it and call them on it right away with each post in which previous idiocy is freshly remembered so that you have context and frame of reference with which to read the newest post, that to some seems okay, because they don't have that context, or full context? Or maybe because someone is just as fat-hating or clueless?

So it's not as simple as where you're going with this.


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## olwen (Aug 25, 2011)

"Being thin and co-opting fat womens' experiences and being a douche about it is what earns the kinds of responses the clueless MissAshley has earned."

Yes, this is it exactly; Put more eloquently.


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 25, 2011)

Blackjack said:


> Whether or not the intent is to offend, this isn't the first time that MissAshley has made poorly-worded statements and shown a lack of awareness as to her audience.
> 
> I don't think that it's malicious so much as a bit oblivious.



I agree, actually. I do think she *wants* to be a helpful presence in the world about body size, there is just a learning curve that needs to happen. But you realize more about someone in how they respond when confronted with many things they are oblivious to - do they realize places they need to grow? do they simply get defensive? do they admit it at all? do they deny everything?

That's where the rubber meets the road.


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## Dr. P Marshall (Aug 25, 2011)

Tina said:


> So it's not as simple as where you're going with this.



Actually Tina, I'm not going anywhere with this. Personally, I'm not one who is big into banning. I was merely pointing out that it's a fine line to tread when a person wants to shape every single discussion and have a member's posts all come with what amounts to a warning label. I stated in my first post that I understand people's hesitation about the OP, but I also feel that if other members want to respond and have the discussion they don't need to be "warned" about the poster. We can all read each other's posting history if we want to and if the OP of the thread didn't offend some people and they wanted a discussion, I really don't see the need to bring up every post Miss Ashley ever made, or any member, for that matter. If you feel she's a clueless fat hater, fine, you may be right, but that's up to each member of the boards to decide for themselves, in my opinion. If you think I'm a clueless fat hater, well, that's your opinion.


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## Jes (Aug 25, 2011)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> I really don't see the need to bring up every post Miss Ashley ever made, or any member, for that matter. If you feel she's a clueless fat hater, fine, you may be right, but that's up to each member of the boards to decide for themselves, in my opinion. If you think I'm a clueless fat hater, well, that's your opinion.



I agree. While I can't say I don't like gossip and 'oooh, did you see that?!'-ishness, it's kind of a lazy way of interacting with the world, isn't it? Being told what to think about people gets old. In my experience, culled over a lifetime, some of my best friendships and most successful relationships have been with people from whom others warned me away.

The nice thing about jerks is that they show themselves pretty quickly. 

That said, this thread has been very interesting to me from lots of different angles.


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## mossystate (Aug 25, 2011)

And yet, I know I have seen situations where things said or done by others are brought up in future threads when talking to the ' offensive party '. Is it worse when it is done directly, and not covering it in ' anonymous ' ?

Come on.

And, I don't think there has been any " warning ".


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## MissAshley (Aug 25, 2011)

I admit I am clueless and many of my statements have been poorly worded, and I will apologize for those statements and the offense they have taken with members here. I really appreciate those of you who have it in you to be calm and diplomatic when addressing me with the flaws in my posts.

Mcbeth, I would say those intro statements I made are still pretty much true, and I think now it is more than just that. Body size issues are of personal interest to me because it's a personal platform I want to take on and stand for in my future. I want to understand it on different levels and interact with people of all sizes and try to understand by interaction. Also, there aren't a whole lot of active forums out there and it's nice to just come here and discuss things with people in general. If you know of another active forum where there are general discussions going on much like this place then I would greatly appreciate a link to that. 

That and I also happen to like fat people in general, I can't deny that. And it's true that my boyfriend is a BHM and it's also true that most of the men I have dated and been attracted to have been overweight, although I like thin men as well but I have noticed most of the guys I have liked have been a little heavier. There is something sexy about a bigger guy, and I think a lot of women overlook them and I want to be the one that doesn't overlook them sees how great they are. 

I don't know what else to say. I come in peace lol. And yeah many of the things I say are a little screwed up and maybe I should just try to reply to non fat related topics for a while until I can find that place in my head where I can type posts that will not be offending anyone or making anyone uncomfortable because that's not what I want to do at all.


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## collared Princess (Aug 25, 2011)

Ohhhhhhh that cake would have been smashed in his face...wow...


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## Jess87 (Aug 26, 2011)

That sort of reminds me of a time I went out to eat with a friend. She was tiny at the time. Anyway, we finished our meal and she ordered dessert. So, the guy taking the order looks at her and goes, "Are you sure you want to do that? There are like 2,000 calories in it." Not exact wording, but close enough. He said nothing to me, I assume I was considered a lost cause or something. It was definitely not something that was laden with hidden calories, you were pretty aware that it's not going to be the same as eating an apple. Not to mention he was pretty smarmy while saying it. She ended up ordering it to go instead and the guy got a much smaller tip than he would have otherwise. She said it happens fairly often. It wasn't something I would have considered with her being so thin. I wrongly assumed that the shame of junk food would be nearly non-existent. It was interesting and a bit eye opening to see that regardless of our size differences we shared similar experiences with food and other people's comments with pretty much the same reasoning from the people. 

I think you handled your situation with class. Being overtly and aggressively rude, while it might be fun initially, would help none and if anything make you look back and wonder how you could have handled it better.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 26, 2011)

The OP's experience was in fact, interesting, which is how she put it out there. She didn't ask for support or say she knew what it was like to be fat. It is in fact interesting that somebody pretty and thin enough to compete in pageants is still targeted that way, and furthermore that anyone would behave the way the neighbor did and consider it remotely acceptable to comment on somebody's eating cake. 

That somebody would attack a thin woman because she _might_ get fat is in fact interesting; a fat person might get picked on for being fat but here's a thin person being picked on for possibly being pre-fat.

I'm caucasian but have had two professional experiences with racial discrimination at the hands of black supervisors. Saying that doesn't mean I know what it's like to be black; i'm not telling black people that and saying i know how it is for them. That being said, I do think that racial discrimination from a different perspective can be part of the conversation about race and racism.

As for the OP, nobody needs to offer up a rationale for being here. This is a public site. That whole over the top paranoia and suspicion is just not necessary. 

There are many posters on this thread who may be fat but who use Dims as little more than a venue to be complete assholes. There are numerous longtime posters who spend about 1% of their time online talking size acceptance and 99% of it here, and on Facebook talking shit about others. Up to and including talking shit on a 350 pound person needing 2 airline seats.


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## Blackjack (Aug 26, 2011)

LoveBHMS said:


> There are many posters on this thread who may be fat but who use Dims as little more than a venue to be complete assholes. There are numerous longtime posters who spend about 1% of their time online talking size acceptance and 99% of it here, and on Facebook talking shit about others. Up to and including talking shit on a 350 pound person needing 2 airline seats.



You really have no room whatsoever to judge others for talking shit about members.


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## fatgirlflyin (Aug 26, 2011)

LoveBHMS said:


> I'm caucasian but have had two professional experiences with racial discrimination at the hands of black supervisors. Saying that doesn't mean I know what it's like to be black; i'm not telling black people that and saying i know how it is for them. That being said, I do think that racial discrimination from a different perspective can be part of the conversation about race and racism.
> 
> .



But would you go into a room full of non-white people that you don't know, and while they were talking about racism proceed to tell them about the racism you suffered?


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## Wild Zero (Aug 26, 2011)

Blackjack said:


> You really have no room whatsoever to judge others for talking shit about members.



A broken clock is right twice a day.

Unless it's a digital clock and the screen failed. Or a sundial in the shade.


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## Tina (Aug 26, 2011)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> Actually Tina, I'm not going anywhere with this. Personally, I'm not one who is big into banning. I was merely pointing out that it's a fine line to tread when a person wants to shape every single discussion and have a member's posts all come with what amounts to a warning label. I stated in my first post that I understand people's hesitation about the OP, but I also feel that if other members want to respond and have the discussion they don't need to be "warned" about the poster. We can all read each other's posting history if we want to and if the OP of the thread didn't offend some people and they wanted a discussion, I really don't see the need to bring up every post Miss Ashley ever made, or any member, for that matter. If you feel she's a clueless fat hater, fine, you may be right, but that's up to each member of the boards to decide for themselves, in my opinion. If you think I'm a clueless fat hater, well, that's your opinion.


I think I've read enough of your posts to feel you're not a clueless fat-hater. And even if I did think that, I don't much care what others think about me, in general, so I wouldn't expect you to, either. I'm not sure you can really devine the intentions of another poster, so how would you know that anyone here is wanting to shape conversations or warn anyone? How about they're giving their opinion, just like anyone else? I'm not seeing warnings to others, though, I'm seeing MissAshley reaping what she has sown when it comes to the way she puts her experiences forth. Am I in favor of banning her? Not really. I'm not ban-happy. I also don't think she is evil, I do not hate her, nor do I think that she is malicious. What I think is that she's probably a nice girl with good intentions, but she's being a slow learner here and it's not helping her.


Jes said:


> That said, this thread has been very interesting to me from lots of different angles.


Agreed!


MissAshley said:


> I admit I am clueless and many of my statements have been poorly worded, and I will apologize for those statements and the offense they have taken with members here. I really appreciate those of you who have it in you to be calm and diplomatic when addressing me with the flaws in my posts.


I think that people can get tired of someone who seems to be willfully obtuse about certain issues, so that there is less patience with them. I believe this is what has happened with you.


> Mcbeth, I would say those intro statements I made are still pretty much true, and I think now it is more than just that. Body size issues are of personal interest to me because it's a personal platform I want to take on and stand for in my future. I want to understand it on different levels and interact with people of all sizes and try to understand by interaction. Also, there aren't a whole lot of active forums out there and it's nice to just come here and discuss things with people in general. If you know of another active forum where there are general discussions going on much like this place then I would greatly appreciate a link to that.


I think that's a very worthy platform. But really, you have to truly understand something before you can represent it well. I'm not sure that finding another board will help that situation, because that part of it is more you than the actual board or members.

The subject of fat acceptance within size acceptance is not really about you, so your own frame of reference won't really apply here, IMO. You seem to have something akin to thin privilege, is the best way I can describe it. I think your idea of not discussing fat issues, but instead reading and learning, is a good one. It's positive that you want to understand, but it's not all that likely that you'll ever be able to truly understand. Any civil rights group needs allies, so there's nothing wrong with that, but maybe stop willfully posting about your 'fat' experiences and just start reading instead. 


Blackjack said:


> You really have no room whatsoever to judge others for talking shit about members.


This. Completely.


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 26, 2011)

fatgirlflyin said:


> But would you go into a room full of non-white people that you don't know, and while they were talking about racism proceed to tell them about the racism you suffered?



Yeah, I think that's the thing that certain people seem to be missing. When someone who holds a trait of privilege in our society (whiteness, thinness, education, etc.) experiences some kind of negative treatment because of that same trait which normally affords them better treatment, it is not the same thing as someone receiving bad treatment because of a trait that is typically more stigmatizing or holds less privilege. It sucks for everyone to receive bad treatment, no doubt, but it's simply a very different experience.

That said, I appreciated MissAshley's latest post (and hope it bears out in future posts). I think that any thin person who wants to be an advocate for size acceptance issues has a lot of listening and learning to do, simply because they have no way of knowing what it's like to live in this world in a fat body on a daily basis. All the good intentions in the world do not change that fact.


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## Jes (Aug 26, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> . It sucks for everyone to receive bad treatment, no doubt, but it's simply a very different experience.
> .



That is just what I was trying to get at back on p. 1 and thank you for putting it so succinctly. I think my tampon example missed the mark.


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## olwen (Aug 26, 2011)

MissAshley said:


> I admit I am clueless and many of my statements have been poorly worded, and I will apologize for those statements and the offense they have taken with members here. I really appreciate those of you who have it in you to be calm and diplomatic when addressing me with the flaws in my posts.
> 
> Mcbeth, I would say those intro statements I made are still pretty much true, and I think now it is more than just that. *Body size issues are of personal interest to me because it's a personal platform I want to take on and stand for in my future. I want to understand it on different levels and interact with people of all sizes and try to understand by interaction. Also, there aren't a whole lot of active forums out there and it's nice to just come here and discuss things with people in general. If you know of another active forum where there are general discussions going on much like this place then I would greatly appreciate a link to that. *
> 
> ...



While it is admirable to want to understand, the fact is that unless you are fat you will not be able to fully understand. You can sympathize, but not empathize. I can complain to my skinny friends about things that happen to me, but all they can really say is "Gee I'm sorry." I don't expect them to relate to me on that level and they don't try. Sometimes I just want to vent, and cause they're my friends I know they will listen. It works fine like that. 

There's no way I would want a white person to represent me or witness for me in regards to racial discrimination. How could a white person know what that's like when they haven't lived it? It doesn't make any sense. So I don't want a thin person to witness for me as a fat person either. What you can do as an ally is to reinforce the idea that unfair treatment is unfair. Lobby your senator for changes in anti-discrimination laws, speak against an unfair work policy, date a fat guy openly and honestly. But that's about all you can do.


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 26, 2011)

Jes said:


> That is just what I was trying to get at back on p. 1 and thank you for putting it so succinctly. I think my tampon example missed the mark.



Yes you did say it, and I think several people have said a similar thing in this thread in different ways. It's the privilege piece that I wanted to underscore though, in terms of the differentness.


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## Jes (Aug 26, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> Yes you did say it, and I think several people have said a similar thing in this thread in different ways. It's the privilege piece that I wanted to underscore though, in terms of the differentness.



You have a measured, calm and articulate way about you, but your opinions are definitely solid, and I really like that about your posts.

As for me, I intend to start making tampon analogies in everything I write from now on. 

You're a SuperPlus, McBeth!


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## mossystate (Aug 26, 2011)

Wild Zero said:


> A broken clock is right twice a day.
> 
> Unless it's a digital clock and the screen failed. Or a sundial in the shade.



Closed Facebook groups are better places to talk smack about fat people, and to not counter that smack talk if one is a SA champion. It's true.


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 26, 2011)

Jes said:


> You have a measured, calm and articulate way about you, but your opinions are definitely solid, and I really like that about your posts.
> 
> As for me, I intend to start making tampon analogies in everything I write from now on.
> 
> You're a SuperPlus, McBeth!



Why, thank you. I also thought your posts were very even-handed and helpful. Your absorption is top-notch, too.


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## Yakatori (Aug 26, 2011)

I was thinking of the word for the middle part of the see-saw, the fulcrum. But I felt like it would be to weird to be bringing that into it...


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## vardon_grip (Aug 26, 2011)

olwen said:


> While it is admirable to want to understand, the fact is that unless you are fat you will not be able to fully understand. You can sympathize, but not empathize. I can complain to my skinny friends about things that happen to me, but all they can really say is "Gee I'm sorry." I don't expect them to relate to me on that level and they don't try. Sometimes I just want to vent, and cause they're my friends I know they will listen. It works fine like that.
> 
> There's no way I would want a white person to represent me or witness for me in regards to racial discrimination. How could a white person know what that's like when they haven't lived it? It doesn't make any sense. So I don't want a thin person to witness for me as a fat person either. What you can do as an ally is to reinforce the idea that unfair treatment is unfair. Lobby your senator for changes in anti-discrimination laws, speak against an unfair work policy, date a fat guy openly and honestly. But that's about all you can do.



Theres a big difference between race and fat. Everyone in this world can get fat or fatter. If you think that fat hate is only exhibited to fat people then you are completely missing the point of the exercise. 

Who do you need to get through to concerning issues of discrimination? In your case, do you need to convince black people about racial discrimination? Hardly. It's the non-colored world that you need behind and along side of you to end discrimination. Preaching to the choir is nice, but the word has to get out to the people who don't belong to the church. People like the OP are the kind of people we need on our side to spread the word that fat is not bad. If necessary, we need to GUIDE them, not chastise them and we definitely need to EMBRACE them. The battle for size acceptance will not be won by the fat people of the world. It will only be won with the help and cooperation of the thin world.

To the non-fat world...You can "admire" the fat, just don't try to accept and understand the fat. We can't manage it, why should you?


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## mossystate (Aug 26, 2011)

See, this is where it gets a little hairy. I don't think anybody is really saying they don't want thin people to help spread whatever word. My radar flashes when anybody, thin or fat, spread words that tell the world that this fat person is " doing their best, bless their hearts "...but that one is not living how they could. Allies are good...allies that don't want to ' help ' the misguided. I think some of the details are getting a little lost here.


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## olwen (Aug 26, 2011)

vardon_grip said:


> Theres a big difference between race and fat. Everyone in this world can get fat or fatter. If you think that fat hate is only exhibited to fat people then you are completely missing the point of the exercise.
> 
> Who do you need to get through to concerning issues of discrimination? In your case, do you need to convince black people about racial discrimination? Hardly. It's the non-colored world that you need behind and along side of you to end discrimination. Preaching to the choir is nice, but the word has to get out to the people who don't belong to the church. People like the OP are the kind of people we need on our side to spread the word that fat is not bad. If necessary, we need to GUIDE them, not chastise them and we definitely need to EMBRACE them. The battle for size acceptance will not be won by the fat people of the world. It will only be won with the help and cooperation of the thin world.
> 
> To the non-fat world...You can "admire" the fat, just don't try to accept and understand the fat. We can't manage it, why should you?



That's not what I said at all. I thought I was clear about it. A thin person can't witness for me. A white person can't witness for me either. What they can do is support me by lobbying for a change of laws or say yes this discrimination is indeed wrong and fight against it. She said she wanted to understand becuase "I want to understand it on different levels and interact with people of all sizes and try to understand by interaction." I take that to mean she wants to study us so she can witness for us. Not possible.


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## D_A_Bunny (Aug 26, 2011)

GlassDaemon said:


> I would step awkwardly close to him, lean in to burst his personal space and then very slowly, take a huge bite of my cake and ice cream, lick my lips, smile and walk away. People like that are totally not worth my time, and if he continued to talk, I'd giggle and laugh at him, and proceed to eat more.
> 
> By the way MissAshley, don't let Mossy bother you, she apparently bashes on everyone. My suggestion is to not even respond to her.



Whoa. I don't know you and I am posting your post to respond to because you have been here since June (two months ago) and have just over 100 posts and you made quite a blanket remark there about a member who has thousands of posts and loads of rep.

Pot meet kettle. You are claiming someone is bashing someone else, when that is EXACTLY what you are doing. Please think about what I have written.


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## KHayes666 (Aug 26, 2011)

fatgirlflyin said:


> But would you go into a room full of non-white people that you don't know, and while they were talking about racism proceed to tell them about the racism you suffered?



Does religion bashing count as racism or simply bigotry? I know a story about a white man who told a well known, well paid black man to stick it because the racism he experienced for being Jewish was far worse than the racism that the black man experienced.

Racism is racism regardless of how bad someone experienced it.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 26, 2011)

fatgirlflyin said:


> But would you go into a room full of non-white people that you don't know, and while they were talking about racism proceed to tell them about the racism you suffered?



No, but neither did she. 

She didn't infiltrate the SS board, and she didn't put her post on a board for fat women or fat men. She put it on the Main Board of Dimensions whose stated purpose is a discussion of size and size acceptance related issues.



> Closed Facebook groups are better places to talk smack about fat people, and to not counter that smack talk if one is a SA champion. It's true.



So talking shit on fat people is ok if it's done on Facebook? Look, I've said catty, mean, superficial things in private. I even have the good sense to be ashamed of them. Are you really rationalizing all the shit you say on Facebook by insisting that Facebook is "closed" so anything you say is off limits to judging you?

As for the race/size thing...it's true not everyone can be a different race. But anyone CAN be the victim of bigotry. Bigotry is bigotry.


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## KHayes666 (Aug 26, 2011)

LoveBHMS said:


> *So talking shit on fat people is ok if it's done on Facebook? Look, I've said catty, mean, superficial things in private. I even have the good sense to be ashamed of them. Are you really rationalizing all the shit you say on Facebook by insisting that Facebook is "closed" so anything you say is off limits to judging you?*
> 
> As for the race/size thing...it's true not everyone can be a different race. But anyone CAN be the victim of bigotry. Bigotry is bigotry.



That's not even the half of it.

The demented people on those closed groups think that making fun of someone's weight and saying that person has their head up their ass is "showing concern". Also another lowlife had the audacity to claim that it was "showing concern" and not what it really was (talking shit) because there were no feeders present. Yes because feeders are EVIIILLLLLLLLLLLLL right?

All these facebook groups and all these private forums are all so negative they should just remove the term "size acceptance" from the label because there's no acceptance going on, just hateful negativity.

Now for the race/bigotry thing. I was referring to Johnny Most, the jewish white Celtics radio announcer listening in on a conversation between Bill Russell and another black man. Russell was saying white people had no idea what real racism was which stemmed from Russell being snubbed on endorsement deals in favor of white stars like Bob Cousy, Jerry West and others. Most then told Russell how he was jobless at one point and was in line for a job but wasn't hired because he was jewish. The point was, Russell's racism cost him a few extra bucks while the bigotry Most endured nearly made him homeless. Racism and bigotry suck no matter how large or small it effects someone.


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## mossystate (Aug 26, 2011)

LoveBHMS said:


> So talking shit on fat people is ok if it's done on Facebook? Look, I've said catty, mean, superficial things in private. I even have the good sense to be ashamed of them. Are you really rationalizing all the shit you say on Facebook by insisting that Facebook is "closed" so anything you say is off limits to judging you?



Errrr. Wasn't saying _Facebook_ is closed. I was saying there are closed _groups _. And I was saying that in those closed groups are people who are very up in arms about things that they participate in. Talking smack about someone who happens to be fat, is not quite the same as fat bashing...unless there is actual fat bashing. I think you are reaching a bit. I will go read again and see what I find. And I know from interacting with some people how they can say they are against fat bashing, but still cling to believing what they say/said was/is valid.



KHayes666 said:


> All these facebook groups and all these private forums are all so negative they should just remove the term "size acceptance" from the label because there's no acceptance going on, just hateful negativity.



Khayes, are you really going to sit there and say you have not called certain fat people ( and might still be calling them ) all kinds of fat hating names over on that closed group? I know you justified it whenever I called you on it, and I bet another boy in this thread has seen them and wasn't disturbed by them. I am no longer there, but I am sure someone could fetch those posts ( no, not to post here ). Dude.


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## Tina (Aug 26, 2011)

I saw it, too, Kevin. And what is flying out your ass, and flagrantly full of shit, is from a group I did read once, but opted out of after being added, because it wasn't my thing and I didn't want to participate or be a part of it for _other_ reasons (because it's not a fat-hating group, as you try to say). What I *did* see before leaving, though (and it's a small group with not many posts, so it wasn't hard to read it), is a woman who is no longer a member here figure out the price of a ticket by saying that she must have been figuring on two seats -- not that she needed them or anything derogatory, just matter-of-fact. So I see the idiot spin machine is in high gear.

Now I have seen _you_ use very fat-hating terms, Kevin -- using fat like an epithet -- on Dan's group. I have also seen you use, over the years, many, many woman-hating terms here and elsewhere, so you really have no room to talk. 

LovesBhms, as usual, you have no idea what you're talking about. Disliking a person who is fat has nothing to do with disliking fat people in general. You know that, though, but just want to stir the shit.

Oh, and LovesBHMs, you were never ashamed of your fat-hating rants. Never. You were absolutely unapologetic, matter of fact.


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## Fat Brian (Aug 26, 2011)

Jes:
As for me, I intend to start making tampon analogies in everything I write from now on.

You're a SuperPlus, McBeth! 


McBeth:
Why, thank you. I also thought your posts were very even-handed and helpful. Your absorption is top-notch, too.





I just hope one of you two is easy to insert into my vagina.


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## cinnamitch (Aug 26, 2011)

OH puleez if ANYONE other than Mossystate had said this, you would not hear a peep from "certain" posters. They don't like her and take every chance they can to pick apart any comment she has. She gave her answer as to why Ashley's post bothered her. Is she not allowed to do that now? Maybe you need to put up a list of what she can comment on. Jesus Christ. Not ok to pick on Ashley but ok to pick on Mossystate, gotcha..


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## Miss Vickie (Aug 26, 2011)

cinnamitch said:


> OH puleez if ANYONE other than Mossystate had said this, you would not hear a peep from "certain" posters. They don't like her and take every chance they can to pick apart any comment she has. She gave her answer as to why Ashley's post bothered her. Is she not allowed to do that now? Maybe you need to put up a list of what she can comment on. Jesus Christ. Not ok to pick on Ashley but ok to pick on Mossystate, gotcha..



Word. And no doubt those of us who dare defend her will be called her posse of harridans. *shrug*

Whether or not Ashley intended to offend, some folks here took her comments amiss, and told her so. I think for those of us who have silently withstood comments that hurt us (intended or not), speaking up is a victory of sorts, and we shouldn't be castigated for it.

Ashley's coming here and talking about her situation the way she did reminded me of Mitt Romney meeting with unemployed people a couple of weeks ago. He said, "I'm unemployed, too!" which was met with uncomfortable laughter. Yeah, you're unemployed but somehow you'll be okay because you're rich. Ashley, while no doubt offended by the asshole's remarks, and rightfully so, hasn't suffered any near as much as those of us who have been fat have experienced. 

When a group of boys yells out of their car, while she's pushing her baby in a stroller, "Disgusting fat PIG!" then I'll feel her pain. Until then, I'll feel my own.


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## cinnamitch (Aug 26, 2011)

Miss Vickie said:


> Word. And no doubt those of us who dare defend her will be called her posse of harridans. *shrug*
> 
> Whether or not Ashley intended to offend, some folks here took her comments amiss, and told her so. I think for those of us who have silently withstood comments that hurt us (intended or not), speaking up is a victory of sorts, and we shouldn't be castigated for it.
> 
> ...



We will be called Harpies, Vickie


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## Miss Vickie (Aug 26, 2011)

cinnamitch said:


> We will be called Harpies, Vickie



Well I prefer harridan but oh well. I've been called worse -- by friends, no less!


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 26, 2011)

Miss Vickie said:


> Word. And no doubt those of us who dare defend her will be called her posse of harridans. *shrug*
> 
> Whether or not Ashley intended to offend, some folks here took her comments amiss, and told her so. I think for those of us who have silently withstood comments that hurt us (intended or not), speaking up is a victory of sorts, and we shouldn't be castigated for it.
> 
> ...



So the man who was the target of bigotry doesn't get your sympathy unless somebody threw rocks at him and called him a racial slur? This isn't supposed to be some race to the bottom to determine who's been hurt worse. If she was offended she was offended; it's really unfair to say "Well I've been fat and really been hurt so your situation doesn't count."


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## Cynthia (Aug 26, 2011)

_“If you have come to help me, you are wasting your time. But if you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine, then let us work together.” _ &#8211; Aboriginal Activist Group (sometimes attributed to Lila Watson)

Most of us who are drawn to Dimensions have, at some point, experienced being misunderstood, invalidated, or excluded, whether it’s because of the way we look or the things we think. Although MissAshley's choice of words may not be consistently "perfect," I sense that she very much understands and appreciates the common human struggle that we share.


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## BLK360 (Aug 26, 2011)

MissAshley said:


> .....a middle aged neighbor friend of my mom's boyfriend who I had just met that day stopped me in my tracks. He said, "Do you know what all that is going to do to your body?"..........How would you guys have reacted to that?



The part of your post I pulled out is where I would have just beaten that man. Especially seeing as it isn't someone you know very well. Some fucking idiots I suppose....blegh.


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## Miss Vickie (Aug 27, 2011)

LoveBHMS said:


> So the man who was the target of bigotry doesn't get your sympathy unless somebody threw rocks at him and called him a racial slur? This isn't supposed to be some race to the bottom to determine who's been hurt worse. If she was offended she was offended; it's really unfair to say "Well I've been fat and really been hurt so your situation doesn't count."



I'm pretty sure -- no, in fact I'm absolutely sure -- that that's not what I said. If you're going to put words in my mouth, at least cover them in frosting, mmmkay?

Reading comprehension = a beautiful thing.


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## butch (Aug 27, 2011)

Last time I checked, this isn't a Facebook group, so could folks who have drama and personal issues because of these Facebook groups keep their drama there, please? Some of us don't participate in those groups for a reason, and would like to only see locally grown, organic Dimensions produced drama on these boards, please.


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## ssbbwnut (Aug 27, 2011)

Just my opinion but I think "secretary's ass" (as he so un-smoothly put it) is quite attractive, just my opinion and my 2 cents....:blink:


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## disconnectedsmile (Aug 27, 2011)

GlassDaemon said:


> ...don't let Mossy bother you, she apparently bashes on everyone. My suggestion is to not even respond to her.



i find the "add to ignore list" feature quite handy sometimes.


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## tonynyc (Aug 27, 2011)

disconnectedsmile said:


> i find the "add to ignore list" feature quite handy sometimes.



*Can certainly bring an "abbreviated" reading experience*


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 28, 2011)

butch said:


> Last time I checked, this isn't a Facebook group, so could folks who have drama and personal issues because of these Facebook groups keep their drama there, please? Some of us don't participate in those groups for a reason, and would like to only see locally grown, organic Dimensions produced drama on these boards, please.



The Facebook groups are an unfortunate fact of life now. What is said on those groups is going to have an affect on this site.


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## LordQuas (Aug 28, 2011)

Threads like this remind me why I post so sparingly.


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## Tina (Aug 28, 2011)

LoveBHMS said:


> The Facebook groups are an unfortunate fact of life now. What is said on those groups is going to have an affect on this site.



Such groups have existed for years, whether on facebook or on other sites since I started posting here in 1998. This is nothing new. They have very little effect here, and certainly no more of an effect than your nasty, fat-hating PMs that you shared right on this site had, LovesBHMs. You complain that people are talking of others, when the nastiest, most fat-hating things came right from your own fingertips. You certainly make more of the fb situation for effect, don't you? You complain and keep the whole facebook thing going, in spite of Julia saying to cool it. Your agenda in this thread is pretty damned clear.


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## Tina (Aug 28, 2011)

It must be a scary, dangerous thing for LovesBMs to fear that her 'real' first name might be able to be googled and she might be found out as a feeder. Especially without a photo to expose her. I mean, the name is so uncommon... lol


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## KHayes666 (Aug 28, 2011)

Tina said:


> It must be a scary, dangerous thing for LovesBMs to fear that her 'real' first name might be able to be googled and she might be found out as a feeder. Especially without a photo to expose her. I mean, the name is so uncommon... lol



Not about being a feeder genius, if you knew what her job was (yes, a JOB...apparently a foreign concept to some people) then you'd know why having her name plastered on the internet isn't a good thing.

But getting to know her on a personal level and knowing that information would require leaving the house in order to meet and communicate, apparently another foreign concept to some people.

This will be my last post in this thread because Loves can handle herself from here on.


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## Tina (Aug 28, 2011)

Well, Kevvie, Loves BMs has mentioned here in the past that she is a waitress, in New Jersey, or is it Mass? I don't remember if that's the state that she mentioned or not. Anyway, it's not like she's an undercover CIA operative or something.  I still find it hilarious that she thinks that someone will be googling her and finding her. Anything else I might have to say on the prospect pf meeting someone like her would surely be amusing to me but be a hassle for the moderators.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 28, 2011)

KHayes666 said:


> Not about being a feeder genius, if you knew what her job was (yes, a JOB...apparently a foreign concept to some people) then you'd know why having her name plastered on the internet isn't a good thing.
> 
> But getting to know her on a personal level and knowing that information would require leaving the house in order to meet and communicate, apparently another foreign concept to some people.
> 
> This will be my last post in this thread because Loves can handle herself from here on.



Thanks for having my back, pal!

We have to hang out soon....Stairmaster rematch? 

And I still owe you and your lovely fiancee a congratulatory lunch or dinner to celebrate your engagement.


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## mossystate (Aug 28, 2011)

Kevin you never dislike someone you only ' know ' online? As for the JOB thing ( a favorite thing he likes to say )...I still wonder, Khayes, if you will ever understand that when you say it, you not only smear people you don't like. I know... I know...that sort of thing is supposed to be understood by the people who don't have a JOB, but who you try and interact with. There are people on this site who don't have a ' JOB '.


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## tonynyc (Aug 28, 2011)

Wow ... this thread still chugging along


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## vardon_grip (Aug 30, 2011)

I think it is poor form to post another's personal information on the internet without consent. It is a violation of privacy. It doesn't matter if you think it is harmless or not. It's not your call to decide the importance (or lack) of such things. If they didn't say it is okay to use their name or any other info...then it's not okay.


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## joswitch (Aug 30, 2011)

LoveBHMS said:


> The Facebook groups are an unfortunate fact of life now. What is said on those groups is going to have an affect on this site.



I found that leaving those groups and never looking back had a significant mood enhancing effect, not to mention reducing the time I spend online.


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## moore2me (Aug 31, 2011)

*I have read and reread the posts about the attitude behind this thread and the problems associated with other posters responding to this thread. I would like to switch this little "train back to the original track" for a few minutes because a few points have not been answering the original senario. 

Controversial points in the original post have been snipped. My comments are in blue. M2M*




MissAshley said:


> (snipped)
> 
> I went to visit my mom out of town, and so I took a week off work to visit her. The day I arrived happened to be on my birthday (the 5th), and my mom of course got me a cake, a lovely chocolate/vanilla swirled cake with whipped cream topping.
> 
> ...



*I would say . . . "Be right back," and gone to mom and gathered up all or at least the fiercest secretaries in the room and told them what this "rat" said. We would then march to his table and everyone sit our fat and not-so-fat butts down close to his "august and knowledgeable person". I would then ask him to repeat what he said for everyone's information and good health. (I would also have mom come in and serve everyone at the table tall, cold, glasses of ice water as refreshments.) 

(This young man at the table has no idea that a circle of secretaries can become like a pack of dire wolves  and hungry ones at that. I have seen secretaries rip men to shreds with nothing more than a staple puller and a telephone cord.)
*

*



Then he asks, "Do you know what 'secretary's ass' is?" I said, "What?" and he says "It's when you sit on your butt and eat junk food and then you your butt and thighs widen and spill over the seat when you sit down." Then he asked me to demonstrate by asking me to sit down. . . . . Mind you, he says all this while puffing a cigarette. 

Then I said, "Ok for one, it's my birthday and that's what people do on their birthday, eat cake and ice cream. And I don't need a health lecture from someone with a cigarette in their hand." He said, "I've been smoking all my life and my health is fine, but nevermind that, this is about you.".

Click to expand...

*
*
I would not allow him to take control of me first off. I would tell him before I sit down, I want to see him prove that his smoking has not harmed his lung capacity. Prove it to me by drop and giving me fifty push-ups. If he declines, grill him on what kind of heavy exercise he can do to prove his lungs are in good shape. You also want to see a demo now. Make it about him  he started this stuff. Turn it on him. Turn to others and recruit help if he gets testy, it wont be hard to find someone to chime in with you if you need support. 

Now for the kill shot, start talking about the latency period for lung cancer and for other cancers associated with cigarette smoking. Just because he is fine now, doesnt mean early pre-cursors of cancer havent started their grim, deadly work. Sometimes it takes 20 years or 30 years for the cancer to appear. Has he seen or talked to anyone with emphysema or other lung disease associated with smoking? Smoking is also a co-carcinogen in that it can help promote other carcinogens as well (such as nitrates, pesticides, certain metals, etc.).

Ask him if he has tried to get life insurance as a smoker. Ask if there is anyone in the room that works in insurance  get their input. Ask him why on Ebay does most items say from a non-smoking environment? Ask him how much he pays a month for cigarettes. Ask him is there any good use for that money besides burning it? How many meals for children in a shelter will a month of cigs buy? Keep on till hes sorry he ever opened his busy-body mouth and you get a standing ovation from the room.

If you get tired or run out of things to say, get help from others in the room. Don't be shy, pull up a chair and invite others to join you at what is now your table. Take control. If he gets up and leaves - you win. And don't let him smoke either. If you need to, tell him that it makes you sick and you usally throw up when you smell a lit cig. In fact thinking about it starts you to gagging, and start doing it now . . . .

*


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 31, 2011)

I understand how it can feel empowering to humiliate someone who has acted meanly and like a complete moron (like in the OP's situation). But unkindness perpetuates more unkindness, and the only way out is not to fall into that cycle. Especially shaming a person because of poor health choices or because he has trouble getting medical insurance? It would surprise me that any fat person would want more of these kinds of insults flying around.

It might be satisfying in the moment, but nothing truly gets better in this world when we all adopt the behavior of the least common denominator.


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## Jes (Aug 31, 2011)

Good points. And it also seems an abject waste of time to trouble yourself by spending any more time with a person like this than what it takes to say: you're being intolerant and offensive and I'm not interested in your opinion.

Getting a room full of women together to stage an intervention for someone who doesn't sound worth another second of your time is not an approach I would take. I have other things to do with my time, like visit my mom and enjoy my birthday cake.


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