# Film Noir Fans?



## tonynyc (Feb 23, 2009)

Any film noir fans? Do you like the Classic Hollywood B&W crime dramas or the technicolor remakes if they are done well? What are your favorites?

There are so many movies "Maltese Falcon" , "Postman Only Rings Twice" , "The Killers" etc. but, one of my favorites was "Dead On Arrival".

*Plot Summary*

_"Small-town accountant Frank Bigelow goes to San Francisco for a week's fun prior to settling down with fiancée Paula. After a night on the town, he wakes up with more than just a hangover; doctors tell him he's been given a "luminous toxin" with no antidote and has, at most, a week to live! Not knowing who did it or why, Bigelow embarks on a frantic odyssey to find his own murderer." _

The complete film DOA from 1950 is on Youtube. Not sure for how long;but, here it is..

D.O.A


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## olwen (Feb 23, 2009)

I LOVE film noir - only I haven't seen them all!  I have a long netflix list to get thru too. Of the ones I've seen In a Lonely Place, starring Humphrey Bogart and Strangers on a Train are among my faves - oh and Mildred Pierce is excellent too!


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## alan_koenig (Feb 23, 2009)

i love classic noir. two of my favourites are the bela lugosi/boris karloff thriller "the black cat" and orson welles' "the lady from shanghai".


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## tonynyc (Feb 23, 2009)

olwen said:


> I LOVE film noir - only I haven't seen them all!  I have a long netflix list to get thru too. Of the ones I've seen In a Lonely Place, starring Humphrey Bogart and Strangers on a Train are among my faves - oh and Mildred Pierce is excellent too!




Olwen:

I have not seen Strangers on a Train for quite a while classic Hitchcock movie. The Billy Crystal and Danny Devito movie "Throw Momma From the Train" was the dark-comic version. 


here are some more trailers for ya and where noted some complete films online. 


The Killers 1946 - Burt Lancaster -Ava Gardner


The Killers 1964 (remake)  

Now the remake starred Lee Marvin- Angie Dickerson- Ronald Reagan- John Cassavates. This was Ronald Reagan's last film. I think it's one of his better movies.

=======================================


*Night and the City (1950)*

In NIGHT AND THE CITY, director Jules Dassin brilliantly fuses two styles of filmmaking, crossing the expressionist lighting and framing of film noir with the almost documentary location shooting he used for THE NAKED CITY (1948). Dassin treats NIGHT AND THE CITY's central London locations as strange exotic places. As the movie opens, it is nighttime and small-time hood Harry Fabian (Richard Widmark) is running from almost unseen pursuers. Harry crosses in front of St. Paul's Cathedral, and Dassin shows this familiar tourist sight from a very high angle, then immediately juxtaposes a shot of Harry escaping through bombed-out ruins. While Dassin and director of photography Max Greene shoot exteriors from high angles or from cramped doorways, they shoot interiors from low angles catching their actors against heavily contrasted backgrounds. The result is a movie full of diamond-sharp, angst-ridden visuals.

NIGHT AND THE CITY is built round the dynamic febrile performance of Richard Widmark as the constantly scheming, ever-overreaching Harry. Herbert Lom is brilliant as the Greek who ruthlessly controls wrestling in London. Francis L. Sullivan, huge and slow moving, exudes menace as nightclub owner Phil Nosseross. And Googie Withers is very striking as Nosseross's smart but desperate wife. 

Part II has one of the best wrestling fight scenes between Mike Marzuki and the legendary Stanislaus Zbyzco 

 Night and the City (1950) Trailer


Night and the City (1950) Pt 1

Night and the City (1950) Pt 2

Night and the City (1950) Pt3

============================


*He Walked By Night (1948) stars the late Richard Basehart*.

"A burglar becomes a cold-blooded cop killer (Richard Basehart) and is hunted down on the streets of Los Angeles. The men in blue manage to track their suspect down into the bowels of the city--the labyrinth sewer system. Noir veteran Anthony Mann, though uncredited, co-directed the film. Well-done and supposedly an inspiration for Jack Webb's Dragnet TV series." 


Complete film in this link 

He Walked By Night (1948)


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## furious styles (Feb 23, 2009)

I love good noir, I've probably seen .. well a lot. DOA is a favorite, a real classic with all the hallmarks and a bizarre but well crafted plot.


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## Blackjack (Feb 23, 2009)

_Breathless_, _Le Samourai_, _The Big Sleep_... Also for newer ones, _Brick_, _Strange Days_ and, of course, _Blade Runner_.

_D.O.A._ I just added and bumped to the top of my Netflix list.


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## olwen (Feb 23, 2009)

So here is IMDB's list of the top 50 film noir films: The last set of numbers is the number of votes the films received, I"m guessing from IMDB fans. I'm not sure tho. Of all 50 I've seen 8. Mostly the ones with Humphrey Bogart in them. I confess I went on a Bogart kick for a while and just watched a bunch of his movies one after the other and then I moved on to Cary Grant, and then Bette Davis, and next is Montgomery Cliff, then Rosalind Russel is after that. I have a lot of movies to watch.

1. 8.7 Sunset Blvd. (1950)	42,786
2.	8.5	M (1931)	31,849
3.	8.5	Double Indemnity (1944)	29,158
4.	8.5	The Third Man (1949)	41,774
5.	8.4	The Maltese Falcon (1941)	42,735
6.	8.4	Touch of Evil (1958)	26,462
7.	8.3	Strangers on a Train (1951)	27,080
8.	8.3	Notorious (1946)	25,268
9.	8.3	The Big Sleep (1946)	23,651
10.	8.3	Diaboliques, Les (1955)	10,786
11.	8.3	The Ox-Bow Incident (1943)	6,942
12.	8.2	Sweet Smell of Success (1957)	6,857
13.	8.2	Ace in the Hole (1951)	5,711
14.	8.2	The Killing (1956)	19,524
15.	8.2	The Night of the Hunter (1955)	19,740
16.	8.2	Shadow of a Doubt (1943)	16,510
17.	8.1	Drakos, O (1956)	261
18.	8.1	I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang (1932)	3,661
19.	8.1	Laura (1944)	11,164
20.	8.1	Out of the Past (1947)	8,668
21.	8.1	White Heat (1949)	8,124
22.	8.0	Key Largo (1948)	12,592
23.	8.0	Night and the City (1950)	2,282
24.	8.0	The Big Heat (1953)	4,715
25.	8.0	In a Lonely Place (1950)	4,570
26.	7.9	Pickup on South Street (1953)	2,994
27.	7.9	Scarface (1932)	7,344
28.	7.9	Angels with Dirty Faces (1938)	6,638
29.	7.9	The Killers (1946)	4,476
30.	7.9	Body and Soul (1947)	1,340
31.	7.9	The Asphalt Jungle (1950)	6,639
32.	7.9	Thieves' Highway (1949)	1,063
33.	7.9	Scarlet Street (1945)	2,766
34.	7.8	Deadly Is the Female (1950)	2,283
35.	7.8	The Narrow Margin (1952)	1,731
36.	7.8	The Woman in the Window (1944)	2,327
37.	7.8	The Letter (1940)	2,967
38.	7.8	The Roaring Twenties (1939)	3,481
39.	7.8	The Lady from Shanghai (1947)	6,131
40.	7.8	Brute Force (1947)	1,654
41.	7.8	The Set-Up (1949)	2,552
42.	7.8	No Man of Her Own (1950)	303
43.	7.7	Gilda (1946)	7,093
44.	7.7	The Big Clock (1948)	1,756
45.	7.7	Mildred Pierce (1945)	5,864
46.	7.7	The Naked City (1948)	2,423
47.	7.7	This Gun for Hire (1942)	1,782
48.	7.7	Murder, My Sweet (1944)	2,872
49.	7.7	Where the Sidewalk Ends (1950)	1,437
50.	7.7	Nightmare Alley (1947)


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## stan_der_man (Feb 23, 2009)

I do enjoy classic Film Noir, but I've only seen ones that happened to be on late night television. "The Maltese Falcon", "Sunset Blvd." and "Casablanca" are a few that I definitely remember seeing. I've probably seen more films with Humphrey Bogart, but I can't think of them off hand.


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## Still a Skye fan (Feb 23, 2009)

A film noir thread, huh?

Yeah, I loves that stuff!:happy:

I'll have to think up some titles to chat about but many of my favorites have been listed.


Dennis


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## olwen (Feb 23, 2009)

fa_man_stan said:


> I do enjoy classic Film Noir, but I've only seen ones that happened to be on late night television. "The Maltese Falcon", "Sunset Blvd." and "Casablanca" are a few that I definitely remember seeing. I've probably seen more films with Humphrey Bogart, but I can't think of them off hand.



I'll try not to go on too much of a tangent, but my fave Bogey film is Key Largo. If you haven't seen that one, rent it STAT. It's a goodun. 

The thing I love about black and white movies from the 30-50's is the banter between the romantic leads. They talk fast and clever, and they never skip a beat. The really cool thing about noir and femme fatale movies is the form. It's formulaic but it's an enjoyable formula for me. There are always shadows, always a woman who the lead never trusts: "That Dame'd kill ya as soon kiss ya. I'd trust her about as far as I could throw 'er." The lead is constantly running, and my favorite thing is they all smoke like chimneys. They smoke everywhere. I'm always as fascinated by the smoking rituals as I am the rest of the plot. There's always a scene too where the male lead lights the female lead's cigarette and that scene signals the start of some good banter...It's amazing to me how a lot of those movies still hold up some 60-70 years later. So many of them were books too. For a while I tried to find the books to read them before I saw the movies, but eh - too much work. 


L.A. Confidential is another good modern Noir film.


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## WhiteHotRazor (Feb 23, 2009)

I'm a big fan of film in general so yea I dig some film noir stuff

The Big Sleep
A Touch Of Evil
Strangers on a Train
The Maltese Falcon
Treasure of the Sierra Madre
Breathless
The Killers 
Diabolique


are some of my favorites


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## WhiteHotRazor (Feb 23, 2009)

*double post*


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## tonynyc (Feb 24, 2009)

alan_koenig said:


> i love classic noir. two of my favourites are the bela lugosi/boris karloff thriller "the black cat" and orson welles' "the lady from shanghai".




AK:

I remember reading somewhere that Bela had top billing -but, Karloff got better pay during the filming of "The Black Cat".
The Chess "Duel" between Karloff and Lugosi is classic.
We'll have to have a classic horror thread for sure.

The Black Cat




Blackjack said:


> _Breathless_, _Le Samourai_, _The Big Sleep_... Also for newer ones, _Brick_, _Strange Days_ and, of course, _Blade Runner_.
> 
> _D.O.A._ I just added and bumped to the top of my Netflix list.



Blackjack:

Haven't seen Le Samourai or Breathless- loved Blade Runner. 

Here are some other modern day film noir for you

Lee Marvin-Point Blank 1967I think this was one of the first US movies to use foul language - but someone will have to confirm this for me.

Payback-Mel Gibsonthis was the "Point Blank" remake. 




olwen said:


> I'll try not to go on too much of a tangent, but my fave Bogey film is Key Largo. If you haven't seen that one, rent it STAT. It's a goodun.
> 
> L.A. Confidential is another good modern Noir film.



*
Interesting point of Key Largo was how the mob boss character, played by Edward G. Robinson was not a romantic figure. He was on the run and hiding out in Florida. This was another great classic movie 
*


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## olwen (Feb 24, 2009)

tonynyc said:


> AK:
> 
> I remember reading somewhere that Bela had top billing -but, Karloff got better pay during the filming of "The Black Cat".
> The Chess "Duel" between Karloff and Lugosi is classic.
> ...



I just like how Bogey plays the tough guy without being bombastic. He's like that in all his movies, plus the banter between him and Bacall is sweet.


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## superodalisque (Feb 24, 2009)

my absolute favorite has to be double indemnity. one of my absolute favorite lines ever in a movie is in it. i love it when Fred McMurray said how he couldn't get out of his mind how the anklet cut into Barbara Stanwyck's leg. wow amazing. if it was an FA he'd have to say canklet.  old film noir has great dialogue for sure.

even though they are nor film noir i also love all of The Thin Man movies for their snappy dialogue. i can watch them over and over again and never stop discovering a new joke that flew by too fast the last time i saw it.


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## olwen (Feb 24, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> my absolute favorite has to be double indemnity. one of my absolute favorite lines ever in a movie is in it. i love it when Fred McMurray said how he couldn't get out of his mind how the anklet cut into Barbara Stanwyck's leg. wow amazing. if it was an FA he'd have to say canklet.  old film noir has great dialogue for sure.
> 
> even though they are nor film noir i also love all of The Thin Man movies for their snappy dialogue. i can watch them over and over again and never stop discovering a new joke that flew by too fast the last time i saw it.



The Thin Man movies are awesome, but the first one, I like the best. The others kind of fall flat for me. I love Myrna Loy's entrance in the first one for the dog and that outfit, and then the subsequent banter over who's been drinking what. :happy:

That's another great thing about all these movies - the women wore stunning outfits!


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## BTB (Feb 24, 2009)

Laura is a very interesting Film noir. 
The young Vincent Price alone is worth seeing the movie.
But the dream-like feeling it's emits is the movie biggest quality. It's a great mix of Pygmalion, the picture of Dorian Gray and the Noir Genre.
That it became one of the main inspirations for the great series Twin Peaks speaks for the quality of this movie.


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## mediaboy (Feb 24, 2009)

Doom get in here!

BLADE RUNNER!


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## WhiteHotRazor (Feb 24, 2009)

I do love some Blade Runner, especially the Final Cut because that VO on the theatrical is pretty annoying.


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## furious styles (Feb 24, 2009)

mediaboy said:


> Doom get in here!
> 
> BLADE RUNNER!



son i been here. blade runner is my favorite film of all time as it combines pretty much all of my favorite things; film noir, cyberpunk, and amazing music.


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## frankman (Feb 24, 2009)

olwen said:


> I'm always as fascinated by the smoking rituals as I am the rest of the plot. There's always a scene too where the male lead lights the female lead's cigarette and that scene signals the start of some good banter...



This so describes Basic Instinct!

There ought to be more 1950s genre detective movies around. The ones where the trenchcoated and fedora'd male lead only works the 4 places:

- The seedy office where he receives the case
- The alleyway, where the corpse is found
- The bar, where he talks toot and gets a lead from the lady who's "done him wrong"
- The rooftop showdown (genre detectives don't do staircases, just the rooftops)

Thank you Robert Rankin


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## superodalisque (Feb 24, 2009)

olwen said:


> The Thin Man movies are awesome, but the first one, I like the best. The others kind of fall flat for me. I love Myrna Loy's entrance in the first one for the dog and that outfit, and then the subsequent banter over who's been drinking what. :happy:
> 
> That's another great thing about all these movies - the women wore stunning outfits!



oh yeah. i think films from the 20s, 30s, and 40s are real eye candy in terms of style. the clothes, the cars and the sets are so amazing.

fav drinking quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nora Charles: How many drinks have you had? 
Nick Charles: This will make six Martinis. 
Nora Charles: [to the waiter] All right. Will you bring me five more Martinis, Leo? Line them right up here.

well i guess you do have to see the rest of the scene to get how funny it was


oh yeah and i also like the non noir film "The Women" with Norma Shearer and Joan Crawford. it was much better than the new one with Meg Ryan. that one totally missed when compared to the original.

add Busby Berkeley musicals to the list of non noirs


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## tonynyc (Feb 24, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> oh yeah. i think films from the 20s, 30s, and 40s are real eye candy in terms of style. the clothes, the cars and the sets are so amazing.
> 
> fav drinking quote:
> 
> ...



There are some classic films of the golden age. We might have to have a new thread for appreciation of those flicks. It's amusing how Meg Ryan seems to ruin the classics - one has to look at the remake of DOA with Dennis Quaid that was released in the late 80's. 

Here is another flick for you Film Noir Fans...

An unlikely Film Noir candidate. "Jail Bait" directed Ed Woods -1954

Unfortunately, under the direction of Ed Woods Jr.- the film is more comic than mainstream. This is also bodybuilding legend Steve "Hercules" Reeves first real acting role.

*Synopsis*

_Jail Bait was the place where Edward D. Wood Jr.'s career as a director entered the mainstream. Having exposed the world of transvestism in Glen or Glenda, he now turned to less ambitious fare in an effort at commercial success. Loosely patterned after the television series Dragnet, Jail Bait tells the story of Don Gregor (Clancey Malone), the spoiled, arrogant son of a successful plastic surgeon (Herbert Rawlinson), who is out for some kicks and excitement and hooks up with Vic Brady (Timothy Farrell), a career criminal. Opening with Don's arrest for illegal possession of a pistol, the film tracks his interaction with a pair of detectives (Lyle Talbot, Steve Reeves); his deceiving of his sister (Dolores Fuller) and his father; the robbery that goes wrong and leads him to murder an ex-cop; and his attempt to go straight, which gets him killed. That action, and Brady's attempt to force Dr. Gregor to alter his face, leads to a bizarre revenge that makes up the final 15 minutes of the movie. Little of this plot is unfolded skillfully -- Wood was already out of his depth in directing actors -- but having access to Howco's finances (meager as they were) and facilities gives Jail Bait a slightly smoother, less emaciated look than most of Wood's later movies. Coupled with the fact that he was trying to do a straight crime film, and the resulting restraint he showed in the writing, Jail Bait can just about "pass" as a normal, albeit very low-budget film, although, as with all of Wood's movies, there is still an unintended laugh every minute or so. And just to show how close to the edge Wood was working even at the outset of his career, in terms of using marginal talent, neophyte performers, and one-time successful actors, Bela Lugosi was not the first leading actor in a Wood movie to die during production -- that distinction went to Herbert Rawlinson, who played Dr. Gregor here. The former silent-era leading man reportedly died the night after he finished shooting his role in Jail Bait.
*~ Bruce Eder, All Movie Guide *

Review

*Jail Bait *was Edward D. Wood Jr.'s first attempt at making a mainstream movie. Previously, he'd directed, written, and starred in Glen or Glenda, a very personal film about transvestism that was made for the exploitation film circuit. Jail Bait, however, was a crime film, really a film noir, made for Howco, a low-budget production company that specialized in genre entertainment and distributed its films to drive-ins and cheap but respectable neighborhood theaters. Co-written with Alex Gordon, Jail Bait follows the path of conventional crime movies, telling a cautionary tale about the privileged son (Clancey Malone) of a successful surgeon (Herbert Rawlinson, in a part intended for Bela Lugosi), who comes to no good end when he takes up with a professional hood (Timothy Farrell) in his quest for kicks. The plot up to that point isn't too different from that of the 1944 East Side Kids drama Million Dollar Kid, except that it's also presented partly as a police procedural. Wood was evidently intent on emulating the style and approach of Dragnet, which was then the hottest thing on television, although Jail Bait, thanks to Wood's strange direction, more resembles the radio version (then again, even the television version of Dragnet in those days strongly resembled its radio version). The focus is just as much on the two police detectives (portrayed by Lyle Talbot and Steve Reeves) as it is on the doomed Don Gregor or his family. Another bizarre element is the dialogue, both as written and as handled under Wood's direction. In between the police jargon and the tough-guy talk is very strangely written and paced developmental dialogue, especially between Rawlinson and Dolores Fuller (Wood's paramour at that time), playing his daughter, who sound like they're rehearsing a radio drama (and like they need a lot of work). It's when Rawlinson, portraying a gifted veteran surgeon, utters lines admitting that he finds plastic surgery "very complicated" that modern audiences start to laugh. Then there are scenes like the one where Don Gregor's corpse, left standing upright behind a curtain, tumbles out in front of his father without making enough noise to alert anyone in the next room. (Come to think of it, the idea of a day-old corpse left standing upright, perfectly still and without starting to smell of decay in a kitchen, is pretty funny too.) 

Those elements, plus the facial reconstruction surgery that Dr. Gregor improvises in a living room, would be enough to make Jail Bait worthwhile viewing for connoisseurs of the odd and unusual in filmmaking. But Wood also had the goal of emulating the zither score from The Third Man and the mood that it created, even though his movie is set in southern California and not Vienna. He couldn't find a zither player (or else couldn't afford to hire Ruth Welcome, who was certainly around at that time), so he reused Hoyt Curtin's guitar score from Howco's Mesa of Lost Women; thus, Jail Bait has this dramatic Spanish-style guitar, embellished with piano for the dramatic moments, noodling underneath its action and dialogue. That track, plus the presence of an embarrassing (but accurate) black-face comedy number set at the theater that's to be robbed, firmly place this movie in the main body of Wood's work, if not as well developed as it would later become in its mistakes and errors in judgement. It's not prime Edward D. Wood material -- as he gained experience and confidence, he grew bolder and began reaching beyond his grasp, making bigger and more interesting mistakes -- but, like watching a car that's starting to veer onto the shoulders of a highway at a medium speed, one can see here where Wood and his career were going_. ~ Bruce Eder, All Movie Guide 

*Cast*

Dolores Fuller - Marilyn Gregor 
Lyle Talbot - Inspector Johns 
Herbert Rawlinson - Doctor Gregor 
Steve Reeves - Lieutentant Bob Lawrence 
Clancy Malone 

source: 

Answer.com


*Below is the online link to the Movie Jail Bait - enjoy*


JAIL BAIT (1954)


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## tonynyc (Feb 24, 2009)

tonynyc said:


> "Jail Bait" directed Ed Woods -1954



Forgot to add one comment regarding Jail Bait- the early part of the movie has a night club scene that is pretty awful.


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## olwen (Feb 25, 2009)

tonynyc said:


> Forgot to add one comment regarding Jail Bait- the early part of the movie has a night club scene that is pretty awful.



This is the only Ed Wood film I haven't seen! I'll have to look for it now. And with Ed Wood there better be laughs-o-plenty or I'll have to stop watching it.


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## olwen (Feb 25, 2009)

BTB said:


> Laura is a very interesting Film noir.
> The young Vincent Price alone is worth seeing the movie.
> But the dream-like feeling it's emits is the movie biggest quality. It's a great mix of Pygmalion, the picture of Dorian Gray and the Noir Genre.
> That it became one of the main inspirations for the great series Twin Peaks speaks for the quality of this movie.



I had no idea Laura was the inspiration for Twin Peaks. I started to read Laura, by Vera Caspary but I never finished it. I think Waldo Lydecker is even more of a jerk in the book.


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## olwen (Feb 25, 2009)

frankman said:


> This so describes Basic Instinct!
> 
> There ought to be more 1950s genre detective movies around. The ones where the trenchcoated and fedora'd male lead only works the 4 places:
> 
> ...



Then there's the cop who tries to look the other way, the smart alecky secretary, and the Big City - usually Los Angeles.

Other good modern film noir: 

The Grifters - great cast
Grosse Point Blank - more of a dark comedy tho huh? Maybe not a noir?
Identity (more of a thriller?)
The Ice Harvest

Did I mention I love John Cusack? LOL


...are we counting Thrillers as Noir?


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## WhiteHotRazor (Feb 25, 2009)

Any of you dig Cassavetes flicks?
The Killing of a Chinese Bookie is one my favorites of his.


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## frankman (Feb 25, 2009)

olwen said:


> ...are we counting Thrillers as Noir?



Anything with a cynical lead character and a femme fatale will do in my book.

I like the noir-y movie Bound.


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## superodalisque (Feb 25, 2009)

tonynyc said:


> There are some classic films of the golden age. We might have to have a new thread for appreciation of those flicks. It's amusing how Meg Ryan seems to ruin the classics - one has to look at the remake of DOA with Dennis Quaid that was released in the late 80's.



indeed! the only one she did that i liked a little bit was You've Got Mail 
(1998) with Tom Hanks which was a remake of Shop around the Corner (1940) with Margaret Sullivan and Jimmy Stewart. it still didn't hold a candle to the original.


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## marlowegarp (Feb 25, 2009)

Film Noir is awesome. I'm really big on some of the French ones, like Port of Shadows, Rififi, Bob Le Flambeur and Touchez Pas La Grisbi (Don't Touch The Loot). I believe that Samourai was already mentioned. Great flicks, all. One cool thing about the French ones is that a lot of them are really funny at the same time without just being stupid parodies. The French are really good at that.


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## liz (di-va) (Feb 25, 2009)

Agreed on the Frog noir, marlowe(hah!)garp. (I am a gigunda-munda Raymond Chandler fan...have all his books/bios/letters, etc.)

My noir favorites tend to have women at the center..._Laura_, _Mildred Pierce_. I think _Shadow of a Doubt_ is amazing, still. Can't quite believe how that one holds up.

That IMDB list is interesting. I don't think I ever thought of _Sweet Smell of Success_ as noir, but that's one of my favorite films, period.


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## kiwilicious (Feb 28, 2009)

Im in to neo-noir, as I find it easier to relate to in comparison to film noir. I see some people have brought up a few neo-noir films like Blade Runner, and Basic Instinct (I havent read all posts), but no one has brought up the coined term for this sub-gene of film (as far as I can see). 
Personally I love all neo noir twisted, thriller, psycho, sci fi, even parody noir. 
Anyways, Ill throw my favourites into the mix
The Crow, Dark City, Memento, Pulp Fiction, LA Confidential, Basic Instinct, Se7en, Blade Runner, Sin City, the Batman movies (lol), Silence of the Lambs, Hannibal, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, The Matrix, Taxi Driver, V for Vendetta, Red Dragon, Hard Candy, Lucky # Slevin.


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## Blackjack (Feb 28, 2009)

I watched _D.O.A._ last night, and I have to say that it's pretty damned good, although not quite so much as I had expected. It's so filled with cheesy cliches and mediocre acting, but none of that overwhelms what's a fantastic storyline.


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## Scorsese86 (Mar 1, 2009)

_Touch of Evil_ is one of the greatest films ever. Period.

I also love _The Third Man_, _The Maltese Falcon_, not to mention _To Have and Have Not_... aw, Film-Noir is a great genre, no doubt.

I also like the Coen Brothers take on it, with films like _Blood Simple._, _Barton Fink_ and off course _The Man Who Wasn't There_. But that's neo-noir, right?

Anyway, film noir *must* be in b&w. Shabby heroes, mysterious women, and all the cigarette smoke you can imagine.


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## Scorsese86 (Mar 1, 2009)

WhiteHotRazor said:


> Any of you dig Cassavetes flicks?
> The Killing of a Chinese Bookie is one my favorites of his.



I am a huge Cassavetes fan. But I prefer _A Woman Under the Influence_. But "Bookie" is quite an original piece of work (like all of his films were).


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## olwen (Mar 1, 2009)

Scorsese86 said:


> _Touch of Evil_ is one of the greatest films ever. Period.
> 
> I also love _The Third Man_, _The Maltese Falcon_, not to mention _To Have and Have Not_... aw, Film-Noir is a great genre, no doubt.
> 
> ...


 
The Cohen brothers are good at that aren't they? I tend to like their films. According to _Film Noir: An Encyclopedic Reference to an American Style, edited by Alain Silver and Elizabeth Ward,Third Edition (Overlook Press, 1992) _Neo-noir films "recreate the noir mood, whether in remakes or new narratives" and begin with The Driver (1978), and go on from there. 

Blood Simple, Basic Instinct, The Grifters, Breathless, The Big Easy, Bad Boys, Silence of the Lambs, Body Heat, Black Rain, Cape Fear, Drugstore Cowboy, Manhunter, Miller's Crossing (another cohen brother's film), Resevoir Dogs, Red Rock West, Serpico, Shaft, and V. I. Warshowski are all listed as neo-noir in this book, but Blade Runner is not.


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## BTB (Mar 1, 2009)

I forgot Millers crossing, the scene where John Turturro begs for his life is one of the finest pieces of acting ever.


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## kiwilicious (Mar 2, 2009)

olwen said:


> ... are all listed as neo-noir in this book, but Blade Runner is not.


I wonder if that's because it's classed by some as sci fi noir, so they may not have recognised it as part of the neo noir movement back then *shrugs shoulders* 
Personally I wouldn't call two authors interpretations of what neo noir is, to be word. Back in the early 90's when it was written and published, Alain Silver and Elizabeth Ward were probably ahead of most, in their understanding of modern noir, but that was over 15 years ago. Even now, people still refer to neo-noir as a 'new film style', I think it's still an emerging concept.


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## frankman (Mar 2, 2009)

kiwilicious said:


> ***snipped***
> neo noir twisted, thriller, psycho, sci fi, even parody noir.
> ***snipped***



All those subgenres make it a bit rediculous, don't you think? 
A film noir should just be called a film noir, no matter what the setting is.

It's one of my peeves, I admit, those ridiculous movie genre descriptions, like: "it's a wonderful time-travel scifi drama with splashes of romantic fantasy and thriller-comedy elements". I call it the Butterfly Effect (scifi/fantasy, whichever you prefer).

That being said, there are some inverted noirs, or film whites (I just call em film noirs), where the darkness of the classic noir setting is being replaced with overwhelmingly light surroundings, like those in Fargo for instance.
There is this one with Nick Cage who pretends he's some hitman in a small desert town, which causes some trouble when the real hitman shows up. I forgot the title, but the effect of the desert heat and isolation works the same nerves as the dark city in classic noir.

If anyone knows which movie that was, please post the title. Another example is Chinatown (easily one of my favorite movies ever).


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## Scorsese86 (Mar 2, 2009)

olwen said:


> The Cohen brothers are good at that aren't they? I tend to like their films. According to _Film Noir: An Encyclopedic Reference to an American Style, edited by Alain Silver and Elizabeth Ward,Third Edition (Overlook Press, 1992) _Neo-noir films "recreate the noir mood, whether in remakes or new narratives" and begin with The Driver (1978), and go on from there.
> 
> Blood Simple, Basic Instinct, The Grifters, Breathless, The Big Easy, Bad Boys, Silence of the Lambs, Body Heat, Black Rain, Cape Fear, Drugstore Cowboy, Manhunter, Miller's Crossing (another cohen brother's film), Resevoir Dogs, Red Rock West, Serpico, Shaft, and V. I. Warshowski are all listed as neo-noir in this book, but Blade Runner is not.



Yes! They are brilliant. _No Country for Old Men_ is also a bit noir-ish. But I love almost all their films... _The Man Who Wasn't There_, in the original b&w-print is a must. I tried to see it in color... did not work.


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## kiwilicious (Mar 2, 2009)

frankman said:


> There is this one with Nick Cage who pretends he's some hitman in a small desert town, which causes some trouble when the real hitman shows up. I forgot the title, but the effect of the desert heat and isolation works the same nerves as the dark city in classic noir.
> 
> If anyone knows which movie that was, please post the title. Another example is Chinatown (easily one of my favorite movies ever).



Your talking about 'Red Rock West', I think. I'm off to work now, but I'll reply your post later.
:bow:


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## olwen (Mar 2, 2009)

kiwilicious said:


> I wonder if that's because it's classed by some as sci fi noir, so they may not have recognised it as part of the neo noir movement back then *shrugs shoulders*
> Personally I wouldn't call two authors interpretations of what neo noir is, to be word. Back in the early 90's when it was written and published, Alain Silver and Elizabeth Ward were probably ahead of most, in their understanding of modern noir, but that was over 15 years ago. Even now, people still refer to neo-noir as a 'new film style', I think it's still an emerging concept.



You're right, there are probably other academic opinions, and I'll take your word for it since I'd just class all the modern films as just crime films or black comedies. I never even thought of them as noir persay. I've had that book in my bookcase for years and only ever used it as a reference for the older films. I didn't even remember the section on neo-noir.



kiwilicious said:


> Your talking about 'Red Rock West', I think. I'm off to work now, but I'll reply your post later.
> :bow:



Yes, that's the film.


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## Les Toil (Mar 3, 2009)

Tony, I'm a film noir insaniac (which used to cause me to be a film noir insomniac).

Here's my Top Ten in no particular order:


*The Third Man*
*The Killing*
*Dark City* (first starring role for Chuck Heston with a Jack Webb playing his scared, nervous sidekick ala Don Knotts).
*Out of the Past*
*They Drive By Night* (bar none the greatest, snappiest dialog in a crime film. Bogey and George Raft play brothers)
*DOA* (Always great. Wasn't it the first movie filmed on location in a city (S.F.)?)
*On The Waterfront*
*Impact*
*The Devil Thumbs A Ride*
*Gun Crazy*

And what's that Bogart film where he busts out of prison and we don't see his face for half the movie til he gets plastic surgery? Damn good. Filmed in S.F. too.


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## Les Toil (Mar 3, 2009)

Scorsese86 said:


> _The Man Who Wasn't There_, in the original b&w-print is a must. I tried to see it in color... did not work.



Why would you want to see it in color? Why would they bother releasing it in color?? The beauty of it was the B & W cinematography. It had one of the blandest stories ever written but it was beautiful to watch.


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## Scorsese86 (Mar 3, 2009)

Les Toil said:


> Why would you want to see it in color? Why would they bother releasing it in color?? The beauty of it was the B & W cinematography. It had one of the blandest stories ever written but it was beautiful to watch.



I know, I know... just wanted to see how it looked. And it did not look well at all. B&w ftw! 

Also, is _On the Waterfront_ concidered film-noir?


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## tonynyc (Mar 3, 2009)

*Against All Odds (1984)*

A remake of Jacques Tourneur's noir classic Out of the Past (1947), in this version a labyrinthine web of corruption touches on the world of pro football. When an injury-riddled body causes pro football player Terry Brogan (Jeff Bridges) to be cut by his team, Jake Wise (James Woods), a shady gambler friend, hires him to locate his spoiled, erratic girlfriend Jessie (Rachel Ward). Terry's attempt to glean Jessie's whereabouts from the girl's coldly aristocratic mother (Jane Greer) leads to a lucrative counteroffer to keep Jessie away from Jake if he finds her. After refusing, Terry heads for scenic Cozumel, where he eventually runs down the stunning young woman. A mutual attraction quickly develops and the pair are less than eager to return to California. Painfully, Terry tells Jessie about his involvement in a betting scandal which has put him under Jake's control. Meanwhile Jake, who is angered by the delay, senses that something is going on, and sends Terry's conditioning coach, Sully (Alex Karras), to find the couple. When he finally locates them, sweatily making love in a Mayan temple, tragedy ensues, spinning the ill-fated Terry into a world of boundless deceit and corruption. ~ Michael Costello, All Movie Guide

*Cast*

Rachel Ward - Jessie 
Jeff Bridges - Terry 
James Woods - Jake 
Alex Karras - Hank 
Jane Greer - Mrs. Wyler 
Richard Widmark - Caxton 
Dorian Harewood - Tommy 
Swoosie Kurtz - Eddie 
Saul Rubinek - Steve 
Pat Corley - Ed 
Bill McKinney - Coach 
Sam Scarber - Assistant Coach 
Dennis Scott - Stunts 
Mel Scott-Thomas - Quarterback 
Tamara Stafford - Kirsch's Girl Friend 
Paul Valentine - Councilman Weinberg 
Jon St. Elwood - Ahmad Cooper 
Jonathan Terry - Ryskind 
Tom Kelly - Football Announcer 
David Dayan - Car Valet 
Billy Burton - Stunts 
Carl Ciarfalio - Sully Stunt Double 
Ginger LaBrie - 2nd Receptionist 
Allen Williams - Bob Soames 
Dick Ziker - Stunts 
Jophery Brown - Stunts 
August Darnell - Kid Creole 
Bud Davis - Stunts 
Buddy Joe Hooker - Stunts 
Carey Loftin - Ferrari Stunt Driver 
Ron Rondell - Stunts 
Ted White - Guard with Dog 
Crew
Taylor Hackford - Director, Producer 
Bill Borden - Producer 
Jerry Bick - Producer, Executive Producer 
William S. Gilmore - Producer 
Charlie Picerni - Stunts 
Daniel Mainwaring - Book Author 
David Burton - Stunts 
Donald Thorin - Cinematographer 
Eric Hughes - Screenwriter 
Franz Steininger - Editor 
Frederic Steinkamp - Editor 
Garry Lewis - Set Designer 
Gene Rudolf - Production Designer 
Jeff Wexler - Sound Mixer 
Karl F. Steinkamp - Editor 
Larry Carlton - Composer (Music Score) 
Michael Kaplan - Costume Designer 
Michel Colombier - Composer (Music Score) 
Phil Collins - Songwriter 
Richard J. Lawrence - Art Director 
Tom Mack - First Assistant Director 
William Steinkamp - Editor 

 Against All Odds-Trailer

Against All Odds-Car Chase Scene


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## liz (di-va) (Mar 3, 2009)

Oh! Another fav: _Dark Passage_ (1947). Where Humphrey Bogart has the surgery to look like Humphrey Bogart.


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## tonynyc (Mar 3, 2009)

Les Toil said:


> Tony, I'm a film noir insaniac (which used to cause me to be a film noir insomniac).
> 
> Here's my Top Ten in no particular order:
> 
> ...



Les: 

I think the Bogart film was "Dark Passage" credit that to Liz(di-va) on her post.

I enjoyed "The Third Man" and I definitely have to check out "Dark City". I never saw that film.


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## olwen (Mar 4, 2009)

Les Toil said:


> Tony, I'm a film noir insaniac (which used to cause me to be a film noir insomniac).
> 
> Here's my Top Ten in no particular order:
> 
> ...



They Drive By Night is the one where Bogey and the other guy are brothers and truck drivers and they loose their truck in an accident and then they end up with a whole fleet of trucks right? That never seemed like a noir film to me. It's not gritty enough for me...Good movie tho.


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## tonynyc (Mar 5, 2009)

olwen said:


> They Drive By Night is the one where Bogey and the other guy are brothers and truck drivers and they loose their truck in an accident and then they end up with a whole fleet of trucks right? That never seemed like a noir film to me. It's not gritty enough for me...Good movie tho.



Yep- it definitely has to be gritty and it's all about the "double cross". Here's another newer nior for ya...Not sure if this has been mentioned yet- if so sorry for the double post

The Usual Suspects -1995


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## olwen (Mar 5, 2009)

tonynyc said:


> Yep- it definitely has to be gritty and it's all about the "double cross". Here's another newer nior for ya...Not sure if this has been mentioned yet- if so sorry for the double post
> 
> The Usual Suspects -1995



HA! Yes. I don't know if anyone else has done this, but when my neice was younger we didn't tell her tales of the boogey man. We told her Kaiser Soze would come to get her if she was bad, just like in the movie. She never fell for it tho. Smart kid.


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## Scorsese86 (Mar 6, 2009)

Has anyone seen _Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid_

:blush:Carl Reiner:happy:


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## tonynyc (Mar 17, 2009)

Scorsese86 said:


> Has anyone seen _Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid_
> 
> :blush:Carl Reiner:happy:



Great movie and a nice spoof on the noir film.

Here's another modern film noir movie - remake- this starred Robert Mitchum in 1975 Farewell My Lovely


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## Scorsese86 (Mar 17, 2009)

tonynyc said:


> Great movie and a nice spoof on the noir film.
> 
> Here's another modern film noir movie - remake- this starred Robert Mitchum in 1975 Farewell My Lovely



That's a good one. Ah, Robert Mitchum. I've just bought "Out of the Past" actually. Got to find the time to watch that one soon.


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