# Does anybody have Seasonal Affective Disorder (S.A.D)?



## bexy (Dec 7, 2008)

I have had depression since I was about 13 or 14, and have been on medication since I was 15. Well that is until about 3 months ago when I came off my meds (for various reasons).

At the minute my depression is quite bad. But George has noticed that it was terrible this time last year, and the year before. When I spoke to my best friend of 13 years, she mentioned my depression has always gotten worse in the winter.

When I think about it, it certainly does seem true. No matter if I am on my meds or as now, not on my meds, the symptoms are the same.

Excessive tiredness but extremely disrupted sleeping pattern. I sleep for about 5 hours a day if I am lucky and most times am not going to bed till 8am.

Very, very low mood. Tearful and upset most of the time.

No energy whatsoever.

Unable to concentrate on anything.

Not wanting to socialise much.

Excessive anxiety and my OCD has gone out of control.

Very weird appetite. Not wanting to eat at all, or only wanting to eat one certain food over and over. 

I am going to see my doctor and ask what he thinks, if I might actually be suffering from S.A.D. I can't go back on my meds, nor do I want to as this is the first time in over 10 years I have been med free and I want to keep it that way. I am on the wait list for CBT too but probably won't start proper sessions till Spring.

I am interested in getting a therapy light, and wondered if anyone has ever used one and what the result was? Or any other form of therapy anyone may have used with this disorder.

Thankies.


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## Just_Jen (Dec 8, 2008)

awww bexxy im sorry to hear that you're doing so crappy *hugglesmush* 
Well done for getting off your meds, i know that's sooo hard to do! (i dread the day i have to)...It would be a good idea to talk to your doctor about it.

From what ive heard light therapy is really good and works really well.Cant you even get them for your house, the lights i mean.. When im at work today (i work at a mental health place) ill ask them about what else works etc, see if we cant com up with something to make you feel good! <hugs>
This time of year is just evil...

Love ya! xxx


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## Bafta1 (Dec 8, 2008)

Get a therapy light! They are AMAZING! I had one when I was in the UK, and it made such a difference. I was really dubious when I was first given this thing to try, but it isn't a waste of money. SAD really is not easy.

Good luck with it!


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## Friday (Dec 8, 2008)

I think they help too. One of my friends has SAD so bad I wanted to strangle her for almost 20 years. The light helped a lot. She went from totally negative to just a little whiny. It helps my husband not be a couch lump all winter.


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## Blackjack (Dec 8, 2008)

I actually oughta get one of those lights. I'm starting to get the "blah" days.

My therapist has recommended that I get the light- he's actually got Harvard studies that show its effectiveness. From what I remember of what he told me, just a half hour of having the light on you is enough to counteract SAD.

You'll have to check up on the lights themselves, though- some are less effective than others, and some don't do jack and are ripoffs. Do a bit of research, get the right one, and you'll be fine.


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## bexy (Dec 8, 2008)

Thanks everyone for your replies. 

I think I am going to try to invest in one, but I have a doctors appointment this week so will talk to him some more about it.

I hate being without my meds to be honest, they were something I was very used to and depended on. I had to come off them though for various reasons like I said, so it really is a matter now of finding something else to help me. 

I am worried about being ripped off Beej, looking them up online you get so many different prices and strengths, so again I am hoping the doc can help with that.

Jenn, let me know if you find anything out babe.

Thank you to everyone who replied.


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## Just_Jen (Dec 8, 2008)

heya hunney

all ive found out is that the lights are a good thing. apparently you should also make sure you go out in daylight for an hour or so around lunch time which might help.Sorry they dont know much, we deal more with psychosis *huggles*. Maybe your doctor can help. or do some research xxxx


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## Miss Vickie (Dec 8, 2008)

Oh yeah. I've heard of SAD and live it each year. And each year I say I'm going to get lights but for some reason (cost!) I don't. I've just heard, though, that a local shop is going to start renting them so I may consider it. Also, my employers have got us a couple at work. Problem is, do we ever sit still long enough at work to benefit? Probably not.

It's too bad insurance companies don't pony up for this sort of thing. It's way cheaper than antidepressants and with fewer side effects.


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## PamelaLois (Dec 9, 2008)

My father has SAD, he was miserable in the winter. He would get sick, exhausted, couldn't work efficiently, all the symptoms. But he would NOT admit he had a problem. My parents now go to Florida for the winter, and he is a totally different person down there, because they get tons more sun and light in the winter. They were just up here for two weeks over Thanksgiving, and sure enough, he got sick. He now admits that there is a difference and he said he is NEVER coming back here in the winter.


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## Tad (Dec 9, 2008)

I'm pretty sure that both my wife and son have it, to some degree at least. We have gotten a small one of those lights (From the home shopping channel of all places--Vicki you might want to check that out as a source), and it does seem to help with my son (we are pretty sure we can notice when he has and hasn't been using it in the morning).

Another thing we've heard is that vitamin D might help. Well, most people in northern climates run low on vitamin D in the winter, and some supplements are a good idea for pretty much everyone. But that they may also help with SAD. We started them last winter, part way through, and have been using them this year. My son has been doing better, but we can't be sure how much is due to that, and how much to other factors.


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## D_A_Bunny (Dec 9, 2008)

My sister and niece both suffer with this terribly. Finally last year my sister came down to Florida to take care of me for three months while I was sick. She was a new and improved person. She absolutely bloomed. She went home and put her house on the market so that they can move here. The only problem is that the house is not getting much interest. So, here it is starting all over again for them both. I told her to invest in the light as well, since they both could use it and benefit. She has not gotten one as yet.
Soon, she may need to break down and spend the money to survive the winter. Until then, she spends hours on end looking at houses down here and dreams of buying them. Hopefully they will be able to move here soon.


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## Fascinita (Dec 9, 2008)

A nurse practitioner suggested I may have it, some years ago. I was living very far north, though. Winters were extra dark.

I do notice that, since I moved south, I seem to have recovered almost fully. Though I still tend to want to hibernate and "pull in" for the winter a little.

On the other hand, I'm not sure this is a "disorder" so much as just natural human body-chemistry stuff. Less sun, less energy. Seems to make sense. It's just that the business world demands that our bodies conform to _its_ agendas, instead of the other way around. "Nine to five" doesn't quite work for everyone.


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## TallFatSue (Dec 10, 2008)

Can't say I have Seasonal Affective Disorder, because in the winter I like to snuggle up somewhere warm with the lights down low. 

On the other hand, one January hubby & I took a vacation in Australia, where there was suddenly twice as much daylight in the Southern Hemisphere summer, and I felt almost giddy. It happened again a couple years later when we went to Argentina and Chile. I'm sure the excitement of exotic new countries had something to do with it, but I'm sure lotsa daylight played a role too.


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## thatgirl08 (Dec 10, 2008)

I don't have SAD, but I have clinical depression and I know it can be a bitch. I've heard the lights help a lot. Also, I just wanted to add that I just started CBT and it seems to be working great so far. I'm sorry I can't be very helpful, I just wanted to let you know that I hope everything works out for you. :]


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## bexy (Dec 10, 2008)

Its just so hard trying to cope with such a major illness as depression without any medication. Today has been a bad day, probably because I haven't seen any sunlight. Got up when it was dark. Tomorrow I have things to do all day so at least I will be up and about. I wish I could afford a light right now, but the proper, good ones seem to be very expensive. So alas I will have to save for a few weeks. I am getting my Morrissey tickets on Friday though lol, so there is a little bit of "light" on the horizon.

Thanks again to everyone for all of their support.


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## Miss Vickie (Dec 10, 2008)

bexylicious said:


> Its just so hard trying to cope with such a major illness as depression without any medication. Today has been a bad day, probably because I haven't seen any sunlight. Got up when it was dark. Tomorrow I have things to do all day so at least I will be up and about. I wish I could afford a light right now, but the proper, good ones seem to be very expensive. So alas I will have to save for a few weeks. I am getting my Morrissey tickets on Friday though lol, so there is a little bit of "light" on the horizon.
> 
> Thanks again to everyone for all of their support.



(((bexy))) Honey, I'm sorry you're having a hard time. I know it's very hard, and very real and really no fun at all. I hope you're able to get a light ASAP. Maybe you can ask for one for Christmas?


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## Zandoz (Dec 11, 2008)

Count me in to...big time. I have most of the symptoms you describe all the time, but if I do not spend several hours a day outside, they get dramatically worse. During the winter I just can not take being outside...anything below the upper 60s and I'm shivering, and below the mid 50s it gets painful in the extremities. Being cooped up inside also removes what little outside world contact I have. On top of that, for me, the dreary look of everything...cloudy and the dead looking vegitation...add a whole additional level of depressing.

In my case, the meds are not an option. Depression runs in my family BIG TIME, and without exception every relative that has tried the meds route has ended up drastically worse off in a very short time...and frequently to the point of no recovery.


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## Still a Skye fan (Dec 11, 2008)

Oh, I always feel lousy during the winter...doubly so during the holidays. I don't know if I have S.A.D. but I'm always down at this time of year.


Hugs


Dennis


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## Bafta1 (Dec 12, 2008)

.... I didn't have the resources, but I moved towards the light anyway, partly because I couldn't cope with British winters. So it isn't a ridiculous suggestion.

Sue, you were VERY helpful!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Ichida (Dec 12, 2008)

I was diagnosed with SAD when I was twelve-thirteen. I also live in Canada - this time of year I don't SEE sunlight until spring....

I would start the school year chipper and excited but by the time october rolled around I was so drained emotionally and physically I could barely function, and didn't recover until spring. No matter how much I slept it wasn't enough, and I was an emotional basketcase. I think my mother was ready to cry - they put me on a rash of medication which didn't help, until eventually they realized that was wrong.

My symptoms were more agression and short temperedness, more prone to weepiness and VERY VERY tired, nearly constantly so. When I was first diagnosed my SAD started and ended with the actual changes of the sun - meaning fall to spring. As the years went on I managed to control the symptoms to the point where it now only really affects me December to February, and because I can manage the emotional aspects better I am mostly just tired and a little irritable.

I can't afford a light or tanning bed so what I do to help is:

-Eat what my body tells me to; if it says to eat six raw tomatos that is what i do! And if it says icecream then icecream it is - it hits the pleasure centre and elevates me out of the blahs enough to jump start myself.
-Exercise - I do this HARD because the endorphens are a pick me up, but even light exercise does this.
-Have periodic "fights" with my mother. This sounds odd but there are a lot of out of wack emotions, and she knows sometimes I just need to have it out, get a good, long cry, and feel better without any reprecussions - it a coping technique.

SAD isn't something that can be regulated with meds (for most people), and the lights do not work for everyone (and some can't afford). The hardest thing was to learn techniques to cope. Mine manifests as aggression rather than sadness because, well, that is who I am. It was terrifying to sit inside my own head and watch myself RAGE because the pen fell off the table twice after I put it back - the fact that teenage hormones were raging at the time didn't help in the slightest. Having supportive people around helps - once my mother realized what it was, she was able to let me have my burst of anger or tears, let me apologize, and move on. 

The hardest thing was feeling that sort of run down that being sick gives you for half a year at a time. I remember just sitting on the couch holding my cat, rocking, crying, saying "I just want to feel healthy, I just want to not be tired, why can't I just feel good for even a few minutes". Those were the darkest times, but how hopeless I felt will stay with me forever.


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## Fascinita (Dec 12, 2008)

Ichida said:


> I was diagnosed with SAD when I was twelve-thirteen. I also live in Canada - this time of year I don't SEE sunlight until spring....
> 
> I would start the school year chipper and excited but by the time october rolled around I was so drained emotionally and physically I could barely function, and didn't recover until spring. No matter how much I slept it wasn't enough, and I was an emotional basketcase. I think my mother was ready to cry - they put me on a rash of medication which didn't help, until eventually they realized that was wrong.
> 
> ...




Wow. What a great post. This describes (more or less) how I felt at the worst of my symptoms. It also describes how I eventually started to deal with it primarily by eating healthier and listening to my body. It was definitely a learning experience and an exercise in learning to take care of myself.

Thanks, Ichida, for this thoughtful response.


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## Risible (Dec 12, 2008)

*No arguing in the Health forum*, please. Any further argument or negative remarks/discussion of any other poster WILL earn you an infraction. I have already deleted a number of negative, rude and snarky posts that may be acceptable in Hyde Park, but certainly not here in the Health forum.

/mod


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## bexy (Dec 12, 2008)

Thanks for the positive responses and for people sharing their stories. Ichida, thank you for sharing so much with us. 

I am hoping to get a light in the next couple of weeks. And I will let you all know how it works out for me.


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## Miss Vickie (Dec 31, 2008)

This was a nice article that was in our local paper the other day about coping with the cold. It's ten below zero at my house and we're having just over five hours of daylight each day so I'm going just a little bit crazy. But I think I'm going to try some of their suggestions, particularly fish oil again. I eat salmon every day (yes, I do!) but I think I need more of those Omega's in winter.

Just for a visual, this was a picture in the newspaper yesterday. It's someone throwing hot water up in the air. Nearly all of it vaporizes. Yes. It's THAT cold.


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## Miss Vickie (Dec 31, 2008)

missaf said:


> Vickie, I'd try a D3 supplement, too. If you have a lab drawn now for D3 levels, it will probably be very low.
> 
> Mine was almost non-existent, so I take 50,000 units of D3 once a week for 3 months, then 50,000 once a month.



Yep. I'm already on lots of D because of my osteopenia. That, along with magnesium and a better form of calcium brought my PTH levels down. My D3 is fine now, whereas before the supplement it was pretty darn low -- and that was in the summer. I can only imagine what it would be now.


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## activistfatgirl (Jan 20, 2010)

Just a little bump because I would contemplate clawing my face open if I had the energy, I actually feel physically oppressed in the darkness this time of year. Darkness almost has a weight to it, and in a dim cold room like I'm in now, I feel like I'm the only human left alive and I'm typing this letter in case the aliens come. Ok..that sounds insane but goshdarnit I mean it. I have zero will to be alive right now, but so glad I can see its temporal.

SUN SUN SUN SUN SUN!


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## Paul (Jan 20, 2010)

I use daylight full spectrum florescent tubes in my sewing room so the fabric colours will reflect the true colours. The daylight bulbs help when matching fabrics and being able to see the true colours.

The reason I mention the Daylight florescent tubes is that these bulbs may be useful for persons wanting to treat Seasonal Affective Disorder. The light from these bulbs reproduces the same spectrum of light as sunlight.

The main reason I mention these bulbs is that they are relatively inexpensive compared compared to other light sources used to tread SAD. 

Here is a quote I found on the web:



> Full spectrum light therapy is sometimes recommended for people suffering from seasonal affective disorder (SAD). Research shows that any light source (preferrably daylight) at 10,000 lux (1000 footcandles) aimed toward the eye for 30 minutes a day, can be effective. Light sources with a strong blue wavelength component are most effective. "Full spectrum" lights usually meet this standard. Any electric light bulb with a "color temperature" of 5000K or higher also meets this standard.


I was able to purchase florescent tubes with at least a colour temperature of 5000K at my local home improvement store here in Winnipeg for less than $4.00. I wonder if when the bulbs are re-labeled as "light therapy" bulbs they can charge much more than the same bulbs purchased at a hardware store?

Anyway since these tubes are inexpensive they would be well worth a go to see if they might help combating SAD.


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## Miss Vickie (Jan 26, 2010)

activistfatgirl said:


> Just a little bump because I would contemplate clawing my face open if I had the energy, I actually feel physically oppressed in the darkness this time of year. Darkness almost has a weight to it, and in a dim cold room like I'm in now, I feel like I'm the only human left alive and I'm typing this letter in case the aliens come. Ok..that sounds insane but goshdarnit I mean it. I have zero will to be alive right now, but so glad I can see its temporal.
> 
> SUN SUN SUN SUN SUN!



I feel ya, AFG. I have the same problem. The days are short, the dark seems impenetrable, and I'm so ready for spring (which unfortunately doesn't get here 'till April some time). 

The lights do help, as does Vitamin D. And chocolate. :eat2: It's reassuring to know that it's not forever, and I think about our poor ancestors who didn't have the benefit of central heating and lots of indoor lighting. How awful to sit around a smoky fire, freezing, probably with little food, waiting for spring. 

It sucks. I hate it. 'Nuff said.


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## CupcakeWhisperer (Feb 8, 2010)

I have recently tried going to the tanning bed on crummy days where there is absolutely no sunlight. I just go for a few minutes because I'm paranoid about skin cancer. But for SAD, it does me wonders, plus I get a little head start on my summer tan. I can't recommend it as a safe alternative, but it probably works out to be a cheaper one than some light boxes. It's free at my gym, however, so I haven't researched cost.


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## liz (di-va) (Feb 9, 2010)

I'm with y'all. I'm becoming one of those obsessive cranks who lives and dies (kinda, you know what I mean) by whether or not there's sunshine. Today I sat outside shivering on the river for 15 minutes, just to soak some up.


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## CupcakeWhisperer (Feb 9, 2010)

liz (di-va) said:


> Today I sat outside shivering on the river for 15 minutes, just to soak some up.



woo gotta admire your tenacity (and your Rothko icon!)


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## liz (di-va) (Feb 13, 2010)

I was heading somewhere this afternoon, but instead of going in right when the cab dropped me off, I just wrapped my scarf tighter and sat down on a doorstep for a happy 15 minutes in the cold with the sun on my face. Felt great. The sun's getting higher in the sky, y'alls.


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## Vega (Mar 23, 2010)

I think I suffer from a mild case of SAD. I love this time of the year when the sun is out and the temperature is warm enough to go outside. During the summer I try to stay outside as much as possible and I definitely feel happier and more active in the warm months than during the cold months. If the sun would just shine in the winter and not go away for weeks at a time, I think I would be fine with the winter.


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## liz (di-va) (Mar 23, 2010)

I've been outside every day the last 3/4 days...it hasn't gotten above the 50s, but the sun is high enough in the sky that it isn't so hard to find, poking its way through tall buildings. People keep saying "it's still too cold," but I don't get that. I love it. Not to mention when I'me shielded from the wind and in direct sun, I can take off my coat and still be warm. I think I am built like a solar receptor panel...one reason summer can be kind of miserable. Anyhow, I'm just grateful. Yay sun.


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## NYCGabriel (Mar 24, 2010)

This is completely new to me! It sounds dreadful


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## AnnieMac (Apr 12, 2010)

I am very effected by S.A.D. and i can totally tell when it is happening. I live near an area where the winter gets cold and grey. I recently spent 2 months in thailand traveling around and the sun effects you so much. I believe it is Vitamin D that you get from the sun. We are like superman and we get our energy from the sun. I feel that is so true. When i came home it was still icky outside and i started feeling it. I think it is also part mental too, if you just sit inside all day and dont go out it's gonna start to effect you. So i guess the key for me is to try and get out for at least a little while every day.

-Annie Mac


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## Aurora (Apr 30, 2010)

My mom has S.A.D. and she got a therapy light this winter. It made a huge difference. I was extremely skeptical at first but now I'm pretty sure it's not all placebo effect. She even heard some story about a woman who would ride an exercise bike next to one with her old dog laying next to her, and in a couple weeks all the gray hairs on the dog's muzzle were gone and he was full of energy too. Crazy, lol. But my mom certainly felt revitalized and able to get things done again, so I was happy for her.  

Also as a note, the lights will wear out after a few months and you'll need to change the bulb. People will complain that they've stopped working, but it really just needs a bulb replacement (even if the light itself is still bright).


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## gobettiepurple (Apr 30, 2010)

*She just moved to Eugene, and she is definitely feeling the effects of the weather. We are from California after all. I told her to get a timer and set her sun lamp for when the sun would normally rise in the morning. She is used to waking up with the sun shining in her bedroom window every morning, so it would help her to wake up in a better mood. Hopefully it works!*


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## balletguy (Apr 30, 2010)

gobettiepurple said:


> *She just moved to Eugene, and she is definitely feeling the effects of the weather. We are from California after all. I told her to get a timer and set her sun lamp for when the sun would normally rise in the morning. She is used to waking up with the sun shining in her bedroom window every morning, so it would help her to wake up in a better mood. Hopefully it works!*



I love the weather in Eugene


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