# '600 Lb Life' to Feature Our Original 'Rock Star'



## Ned Sonntag

http://web.poptower.com/zsalynn-whitworth-my-600-lb-life.htm A heads-up for the group... discuss amongst yourselves... interesting that Zsa:wubu: names NAAFA in the promo paragraphs and not DIMz...


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## HereticFA

I wondered when her second WLS procedure would be officially revealed. (She had it months ago.)

The way the copy in the link was written, it makes NAAFA sound like they are pimping out fat women. It will be interesting to see how NAAFA is actually portrayed in the show when it's not subjected to the poor writing skills of the author. 

Actually it's much better that Dims is left out in the upcoming media circus that may ensue from this show and the documentary 'All of Me' that was made with Zsa and 'Bridget'. We've entered an era of pitchforks and torches with respect to public opinion of fat people and from what I've seen there isn't enough 'fight' in the fat community as a whole.


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## KHayes666

Are we really that surprised anymore? They milk the paysites for all they're worth then go on national television to either get a reality tv deal or to lose weight. I've grown immune to things like this.

Oh and I love how Christina's husband (if you clicked on the season 2 cast list) looks like every stereotypical a-hole FA I've ever known online or in person. You can almost see the disdain on his face in the picture that she wants to lose weight.


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## J34

KHayes666 said:


> Are we really that surprised anymore? They milk the paysites for all they're worth then go on national television to either get a reality tv deal or to lose weight. I've grown immune to things like this.
> 
> *Oh and I love how Christina's husband (if you clicked on the season 2 cast list) looks like every stereotypical a-hole FA I've ever known online or in person. You can almost see the disdain on his face in the picture that she wants to lose weight*.



I almost choked laughing when I saw that picture!


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## bigmac

Zsalynn's bio is not unique. Far too many women abandon healthy lifestyles in their twenties and thirties only to end up painfully limited in their forties.

I wish Zsalynn and her family all the best and hope her surgery improves her quality of life.


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## superodalisque

i don't think the media is necessarily after fat people. just silly illogical people, and boy have they been given them plenty. 

also this is one time i have to say i agree with Bigmac. the denial is crazy. it's weird thinking that some people think the core of being fat means not even trying to take care of yourself at all even in the smallest of ways that matter. the pretense that they are being discriminated against by their own comrades who've already been through it all when they're told that they can be fat but they do need to pay attention is really exasperating. if i hear anybody whine stupidly about death fats one more time i think i'm going to choke them. time to stop being childish and stop hiding the fact that they've ended up in the hospital especially from younger folks who they are encouraging to follow in their footsteps. if they stopped playing this game maybe there wouldn't be so many who later become desperate for absolutely any kind of last ditch effort at relief instead of managing to stay fat and strong.


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## The Orange Mage

KHayes666 said:


> Are we really that surprised anymore? They milk the paysites for all they're worth then go on national television to either get a reality tv deal or to lose weight. I've grown immune to things like this.



Hell, that's old hat, the cool new thing to do is to do all the shoots for a paysite ahead of time, then get WLS, and then put up the paysite AFTER you're at your goal weight.


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## Tracyarts

" it's weird thinking that some people think the core of being fat means not even trying to take care of yourself at all even in the smallest of ways that matter. "

Well, you have to understand that there was a time and place within the history of the fat subculture that sent very mixed messages about what it meant to be a healthy fat person. And at the most dysfunctional, you could be shamed and shunned as a "diet culture promoter" for eating in a manner that was deemed to be restrictive, or following a fitness program that was deemed to be demanding. And ANY medical health care provider who said that ANY health issue was caused by or exacerbated by your weight or diet and activity level choices, was in on the evil and toxic diet conspiracy. So, in order to be a an enlightened and self-loving fat person, the correct option was to fire that provider and find one who would agree never to mention your weight whatsoever. 

Weight, no matter how high, was seen as completely benign and in no way connected to your health and well-being. To state otherwise risked being labeled as a fat bigot or fat hater. 

You were also reminded that if you did decide to become a traitor to the movement and make dietary and activity level choices with the intention of losing weight, that you would 1.) Probably never succeed, because weight loss is near impossible. Or 2.) Immediatly regain it all and then some, because weight loss is never sustainable. For some reason, weight GAIN due to changes in diet and activity level were considered to be completely possible and sustainable, so there was an obvious disconnect there. 

One would think that common sense and self-awareness would be enough to counteract these mixed messages. But it's not that simple. When a need for acceptance, validation, belonging, sexual desirability, and popularity comes into play, it's easy to tuck thast little voice in the back of your head away and choose to deal with the potential consequences, if they come, sometime in the future. 

Tracy


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## bigmac

Excellent post Tracy! (Sorry can't rep you.)

This is a big problem in the SA/FA community. We cannot claim to be supportive and accepting of fat people while also and at the same time encouraging fat people to gain more weight. Rather than accept people the way they are (which you'd think would be the point of an acceptance movement) too many people here encourage others to intentionally gain weight. The larger world tells people (especially young women) they're too fat. But when they come here many are told they're not fat enough.


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## superodalisque

Tracyarts said:


> " it's weird thinking that some people think the core of being fat means not even trying to take care of yourself at all even in the smallest of ways that matter. "
> 
> Well, you have to understand that there was a time and place within the history of the fat subculture that sent very mixed messages about what it meant to be a healthy fat person. And at the most dysfunctional, you could be shamed and shunned as a "diet culture promoter" for eating in a manner that was deemed to be restrictive, or following a fitness program that was deemed to be demanding. And ANY medical health care provider who said that ANY health issue was caused by or exacerbated by your weight or diet and activity level choices, was in on the evil and toxic diet conspiracy. So, in order to be a an enlightened and self-loving fat person, the correct option was to fire that provider and find one who would agree never to mention your weight whatsoever.
> 
> Weight, no matter how high, was seen as completely benign and in no way connected to your health and well-being. To state otherwise risked being labeled as a fat bigot or fat hater.
> 
> You were also reminded that if you did decide to become a traitor to the movement and make dietary and activity level choices with the intention of losing weight, that you would 1.) Probably never succeed, because weight loss is near impossible. Or 2.) Immediatly regain it all and then some, because weight loss is never sustainable. For some reason, weight GAIN due to changes in diet and activity level were considered to be completely possible and sustainable, so there was an obvious disconnect there.
> 
> One would think that common sense and self-awareness would be enough to counteract these mixed messages. But it's not that simple. When a need for acceptance, validation, belonging, sexual desirability, and popularity comes into play, it's easy to tuck thast little voice in the back of your head away and choose to deal with the potential consequences, if they come, sometime in the future.
> 
> Tracy



Tracy you expressed this so well girl. they wouldn't let me rep you either so i'll just have to give you a spiritual rep.

i'm really waiting for the day when a lot of fat people really do become truly "selfish" and do _exactly _what they want and not what someone else thinks they should want.


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## CleverBomb

The Orange Mage said:


> Hell, that's old hat, the cool new thing to do is to do all the shoots for a paysite ahead of time, then get WLS, and then put up the paysite AFTER you're at your goal weight.


Damn. I guess I'm not cynical enough -- that actually hadn't occurred to me, but it makes perfect sense. It also solves a problem I thought was inevitable in the paysite industry: the Internet never forgets, and once those racy pictures are out there, they're a permanent reputational threat. The solution? After WLS you won't look anything like you did while modeling*, so if anyone runs across the images or videos, they won't be able to connect it to you. Mind you, it takes a bit of vigilance about accidentally leaving clues, as well as a clean break from your previous online existence, but it's possible. 

Bonus points if you _already_ want WLS but can't get it covered by your insurance because your weight isn't quite high enough to make it medically necessary...at least, it isn't *yet*.

Yikes.

*For better or worse is a subjective matter -- the key here is that it'll be _different_.


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## The Orange Mage

bigmac said:


> Excellent post Tracy! (Sorry can't rep you.)
> 
> This is a big problem in the SA/FA community. We cannot claim to be supportive and accepting of fat people while also and at the same time encouraging fat people to gain more weight. Rather than accept people the way they are (which you'd think would be the point of an acceptance movement) too many people here encourage others to intentionally gain weight. The larger world tells people (especially young women) they're too fat. But when they come here many are told they're not fat enough.



You're confusing size acceptance and feedism communities. Isn't surprising since this place is literally that: two different communities stuffed into the same box. How the two EVER got mixed together in the first place is beyond me, the two should stay WAY the hell apart.

The only real issue size acceptance has with people losing weight is that people who DO lose weight seem to get really shitty towards their former fat friends about THEIR weight.

I'm probably gonna get a lot of shit for saying this but being fat (and by extension really really fat) is really only for those who actually want to be, which isn't many people.


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## CleverBomb

The Orange Mage said:


> You're confusing size acceptance and feedism communities. Isn't surprising since this place is literally that: two different communities stuffed into the same box. How the two EVER got mixed together in the first place is beyond me,


Because pageviews.


> the two should stay WAY the hell apart.


I strongly concur, but I suppose that the justification is that people who merely come here out of prurient interest may eventually embrace a broader concept of size acceptance. It's not an _entirely_ unreasonable proposition.


> The only real issue size acceptance has with people losing weight is that people who DO lose weight seem to get really shitty towards their former fat friends about THEIR weight.
> 
> I'm probably gonna get a lot of shit for saying this but *being* fat (and by extension really really fat) is really only for those who actually want to be, which isn't many people.


Replace the bolded "being" with "deliberately becoming" and I'm in full agreement with you. Otherwise, "actually want to be" needs to be placed in the context of how desirable -- or, indeed possible -- the alternatives (diet, exercise, discontinuing necessary medication, invasive surgery, etc.) are to the individual in question. For example, someone who may not "actually want to be" fat might still consider being fat a fair tradeoff for being able to take an effective antidepressant. Or even a fair tradeoff for not having to be on a drastically-low-calorie diet for the rest of their life.

And that shouldn't be held against them by anyone, or by society as a whole. 

The key, though, that nobody should need to change their weight (either way) to suit anyone else's idea of what's acceptable, desirable, or deserving of accommodation.


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## KHayes666

The Orange Mage said:


> You're confusing size acceptance and feedism communities. Isn't surprising since this place is literally that: two different communities stuffed into the same box. How the two EVER got mixed together in the first place is beyond me, the two should stay WAY the hell apart.
> 
> *The only real issue size acceptance has with people losing weight is that people who DO lose weight seem to get really shitty towards their former fat friends about THEIR weight.*
> 
> I'm probably gonna get a lot of shit for saying this but being fat (and by extension really really fat) is really only for those who actually want to be, which isn't many people.



This ^^ (stupid 10 character minimum)


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## musicman

The Orange Mage said:


> The only real issue size acceptance has with people losing weight is that people who DO lose weight seem to get really shitty towards their former fat friends about THEIR weight.



Well said. If an individual wants to lose weight for whatever reason, that's fine. But as we all know, most weight loss schemes encourage intense fat-hatred, starting with hatred of self for being fat, but this always seems to translate into hatred of others. Weight loss is nearly unique in this, among all so-called "self-improvement" techniques. When one learns a foreign language, one isn't taught to hate those who don't know it. Similarly for sports, crafts, learning math, or anything else. If you can't sell your product without inciting hatred, there's something wrong with it.


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## superodalisque

actually the idea that fat folk who have and do lose weight or even have WLS are always preaching against being fat is a myth. i have a whole lot of friends who've lost weight in a lot of ways. they've never preached at me or anybody else but they are hated on anyway. i'm not saying that some people don't do it because i'm sure that they do. i just personally don't know ANY. but i also know a whole lot of them don't have any exposure to admirers at all anymore anyway because they are no longer interested unless they are promising to gain weight. so, how would they even know exactly what they feel about losing weight anyway? they don't even know that a lot of them actually miss being fat. there are others are quiet about it and pretend they haven't tried to lose any weight even though it's just a little because they know they can't even say so. they don't even come to the fat community for anything anymore. most often i've seen them as acting as staunch allies IRL because they know what it feels like and they NEVER forget. *THEY* are the ones who help people out when they get broke or sick whether they are fat anymore or not--and it's not by ordering them pizzas and asking for pix if they've gained weight from them. it's by paying their rent, cleaning their house, giving them a ride, loaning a car, providing a place to live, going with them to the doctor, visiting the in the hospital and being their fat advocate, baby sitting, sending cash or even just calling to say "i care". 

just a personal note to my friends who've lost a lot of weight, i just want to say I LOVE YOU and i know that you still love me just the way that i am. you aren't that small minded. if anything they've been some of the most solid supporters i know. i think a lot of people just use the idea of ex fat people preaching at fat folk as another excuse to support their own prejudice against people who want to move outside of their preference zone. you can't calibrate real fat people we know who've lost weight against celebs who are getting paid to say what they do. as somebody who has lost 100 lbs i know exactly how the fat world freaks out when you lose some weight even though you're still super sized. so i definitely don't trust any analysis from here about what fat folk who have lost even more weight are like. i trust my own experiences and my own peeps.

until the rest of the community is as likely to respond with actions as they are with their posts they need to shut the freak up about who loses weight or why because it just isn't their business if they don't get personally involved or ever help anybody before they even get to the stage of considering WLS. it just doesn't look good when people who come here looking for help and emotional support when they are desperate mainly because of some of the encouragements they've gotten are called deadbeats liars or worse and basically run out of town for shattering fantasies. and it's sick when they are eulogized, if they wait around on so called friends and pass away, as though they were the best thing ever. maybe before people critique folk who feel they have to get WLS people should be asking themselves where were they when fat folk were asking for their help. in Zsa's case it was mainly nowhere for the people critiquing her the most and whose main contribution was trying to talk her into not taking care of herself in even the most minimal way for their benefit.


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## superodalisque

PS:

it's time for a lot of you to stop listening to media and people who get paid to talk to you. start talking to and getting involved with real folk you don't have to pay to say what you want for a change.


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## wrestlingguy

superodalisque said:


> actually the idea that fat folk who have and do lose weight or even have WLS are always preaching against being fat is a myth. i have a whole lot of friends who've lost weight in a lot of ways. they've never preached at me or anybody else but they are hated on anyway. i'm not saying that some people don't do it because i'm sure that they do. i just personally don't know ANY.



I think you likely choose your friends wisely. Here are some quotes from a recent thread that I was reading today (on someone's blog page)



> I've been on both sides of this discussion and I can tell you these are all just excuses to avoid the work that would comes with change. I'm 120 pounds lighter than I was 6 years ago and now that I'm at a healthy weight I realize how deeply I was in denial when I tried to tell myself "you're beautiful just the way you are" or "you're just as healthy as someone at a normal weight". You are not.





> I speak as someone who was very fat from childhood until he was in his early thirties, then lost a lot of weight over 2 years, then have kept most of it off until the last two years where I have crept up so that I have now gained about 2/5 of the weight I lost.....By all means - if you are fat and can't change it, try to feel better about yourself. However, if you are able to lose weight it's worth working at. If you can manage to do it and maintain it, it's easier to be happy that way





> As a guy who's lost a ton of weight, I can tell you that there's a difference between saying someone should be confident in their own skin and encouraging someone with bad lifestyle habits. Being fat / overweight / large can be very dangerous to the health of said person. Being confident is great, but I don't think we should encourage people that being fat is okay for health's sake.





> When we are young and in our 20s we can believe whatever our minds wish. However I hope you don't find yourself like me approaching 40 and nearly dead because of your lifestyle. It is no longer a choice for me I must live clean and healthy. It's not a discussion of weight it's a discussion of health. I've now lost a total of 84 pounds and couldn't feel better and healthier



This is from just one thread!

Additionally, I think that my recent post about former Man Vs. Food host Adam Richman is a great example of someone who's lost weight, and then goes out and shames other fat people. More important, while Richman's recent comments were more insulting and blatant, other celebrities who've done the same like Kirstie Alley and Jennifer Hudson have put down their former fat selves (albeit for scads of money), and in the process put down others by association. Does anyone else remember Alley's comment after she debuted her first hundred pound weight loss?



> The 60-year-old actress revealed to "Entertainment Tonight" she's met her weight-loss goal, shedding 100 lbs.
> "I feel like I'm back in my element. I honestly didn't even realize what I looked like," she told the show. (courtesy of Entertainment Tonight)


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## loopytheone

The Orange Mage said:


> You're confusing size acceptance and feedism communities. Isn't surprising since this place is literally that: two different communities stuffed into the same box. How the two EVER got mixed together in the first place is beyond me, the two should stay WAY the hell apart.





CleverBomb said:


> I strongly concur, but I suppose that the justification is that people who merely come here out of prurient interest may eventually embrace a broader concept of size acceptance. It's not an _entirely_ unreasonable proposition.
> 
> The key, though, that nobody should need to change their weight (either way) to suit anyone else's idea of what's acceptable, desirable, or deserving of accommodation.



So what, you two think that nobody who is a feeder or feedee can ever be interested in SA? As a feeder who is very much a supporter of SA I resent this. Anybody into feederism is looked down on and considered to be scum by a lot of people on these boards and it just isn't acceptable. I have always believe that people can be beautiful and strong and healthy no matter what their size and that everybody of every size, shape, age, race and gender deserves equal respect as unique individual beings. I have had these beliefs since I was a child, long before I had ever heard of SA or knew anything of my attraction to larger people and it goes far beyond the scope of Size Acceptance. I believe in acceptance of all genders, all sexualities, all races, religions because as far as I am concerned everybody is a perfect person just the way they are, they don't need to change anything about themselves for that. But because I find fantasies about weight gain exciting I have to be ousted from the SA community because I am what, a deviant in your eyes? When my partner gains weight and is happy and comfortable with this I enjoy it very much, I will freely admit this. But if they never wanted to gain weight? If they wanted to lose weight? I would help them with it because it is their body and whatever they wish to do with it is great to me, as long as they are happy and comfortable with themselves. Because whatever their size, they are them and that is all that matters.


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## superodalisque

a lot of my fat friends who have lost weight are from dims and mainly they no longer post here very much if at all anymore. i don't know who those people are and thankfully they aren't a part of MY world. i connect with most of my friends elsewhere and they never preach at me. forums attract a lot of weird nuttiness from all corners so i am not at all surprised.

i do choose my friends carefully and i think absolutely everyone should. as far as Adam Rich he is another one of those paid people who i neither pay attention to or have any idea who he is really? he says what he says for money attention and publicity and a lot of people give him exactly what he is going for. everything he says is for money basically. just saying that a fat person is indeed fat doesn't amount to abuse to me unless he is going out trying to make people who aren't interested in dieting. then they should either ignore him or punch him in the mouth--whichever suits. but what they shouldn't be doing is pretending that he has the power to define their worth as a human being since he doesn't. if they do give him that power that's their problem. the best action is to take the power away by not clicking on anything of his or if he even has a job pressure his employers by not buying what they advertise. 

i think people should concentrate on what their real friends think and leave the fakers, the bought and paid for and the gossipers out of their life. they have no place there. if we could do that no one would feel the need to be in the closet and no one would feel something was wrong with them being fat because we wouldn't be handling crap on a daily or minute by minute basis.

REAL is what we should be focusing on


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## lille

loopytheone said:


> So what, you two think that nobody who is a feeder or feedee can ever be interested in SA? As a feeder who is very much a supporter of SA I resent this. Anybody into feederism is looked down on and considered to be scum by a lot of people on these boards and it just isn't acceptable. I have always believe that people can be beautiful and strong and healthy no matter what their size and that everybody of every size, shape, age, race and gender deserves equal respect as unique individual beings. I have had these beliefs since I was a child, long before I had ever heard of SA or knew anything of my attraction to larger people and it goes far beyond the scope of Size Acceptance. I believe in acceptance of all genders, all sexualities, all races, religions because as far as I am concerned everybody is a perfect person just the way they are, they don't need to change anything about themselves for that. But because I find fantasies about weight gain exciting I have to be ousted from the SA community because I am what, a deviant in your eyes? When my partner gains weight and is happy and comfortable with this I enjoy it very much, I will freely admit this. But if they never wanted to gain weight? If they wanted to lose weight? I would help them with it because it is their body and whatever they wish to do with it is great to me, as long as they are happy and comfortable with themselves. Because whatever their size, they are them and that is all that matters.



Exactly. Yes, there are feeders that don't think about other people happiness, put people down if they don't think they're fat enough, and just post "get fatter" everywhere and they are assholes and no one wants to deal with them. But they're not like that because they're feeders, they're like that because they're tactless assholes.


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## wrestlingguy

lille said:


> Exactly. Yes, there are feeders that don't think about other people happiness, put people down if they don't think they're fat enough, and just post "get fatter" everywhere and they are assholes and no one wants to deal with them. But they're not like that because they're feeders, they're like that because they're tactless assholes.



True, but aren't they the largest numbers and the loudest voices in the feeder community?

I wrote a blog about feederism a few years ago because of just that. I do think (contrary to what some of the SA leaders think) that we need all voices in the fat community to be heard.

My issue is that it's typically the wrong people that are marched out on the sensational TV shows, and they're the ones who give feederism, and in the process size acceptance, a bad name. THAT is one of the main reasons that most of the SA leaders don't want feederism associated with the movement.


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## lille

wrestlingguy said:


> True, but aren't they the largest numbers and the loudest voices in the feeder community?
> 
> I wrote a blog about feederism a few years ago because of just that. I do think (contrary to what some of the SA leaders think) that we need all voices in the fat community to be heard.
> 
> My issue is that it's typically the wrong people that are marched out on the sensational TV shows, and they're the ones who give feederism, and in the process size acceptance, a bad name. THAT is one of the main reasons that most of the SA leaders don't want feederism associated with the movement.



The extremists and such of any group are always the loudest, so it often seems like they are the majority. I agree, giving these idiots a public platform does not help the SA movement, however ostracizing everyone who identifies as a feeder just breeds resentment and causes more negativity towards the SA movement from people who would have been allies.


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## bigmac

superodalisque said:


> ...
> 
> REAL is what we should be focusing on



Yes, and the paysite world is as real as professional wrestling.

The REAL truth is that at some point -- a point that varies widely -- fatness becomes an extreme burden. A burden that makes having a fulfilling life very difficult.

I first met Zsalynn back in 1995. I was struck by how active and energetic she was despite weighing about 400 pounds. I haven't seen her IRL for a long while but it appears that she's gained about 150 pounds and its adversely affecting her quality of life. Its often the case its that the last 100 pounds or so is what (pardon the pun) tips the scales. Fat people in their twenties and thirties are, therefore, well advised to do all they can to avoid gaining that last 100 pounds. When members of the FA/SA community encourage already fat people to gain more weight they are contributing to a serious problem.

That said real life is real and fantasy is fantasy. Professional wrestling may be low brow entertainment but its harmless unless people start believing that you can wack another human being across the back of the head with a metal chair and not do any serious damage. Likewise paysites are, for some people, an easy way to address prurient interests. However, everyone involved (including the models) needs to realize that actually playing out weight gain fantasies in real life is not going to end well.


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## superodalisque

bigmac said:


> Yes, and the paysite world is as real as professional wrestling.
> 
> The REAL truth is that at some point -- a point that varies widely -- fatness becomes an extreme burden. A burden that makes having a fulfilling life very difficult.
> 
> I first met Zsalynn back in 1995. I was struck by how active and energetic she was despite weighing about 400 pounds. I haven't seen her IRL for a long while but it appears that she's gained about 150 pounds and its adversely affecting her quality of life. Its often the case its that the last 100 pounds or so is what (pardon the pun) tips the scales. Fat people in their twenties and thirties are, therefore, well advised to do all they can to avoid gaining that last 100 pounds. When members of the FA/SA community encourage already fat people to gain more weight they are contributing to a serious problem.
> 
> That said real life is real and fantasy is fantasy. Professional wrestling may be low brow entertainment but its harmless unless people start believing that you can wack another human being across the back of the head with a metal chair and not do any serious damage. Likewise paysites are, for some people, an easy way to address prurient interests. However, everyone involved (including the models) needs to realize that actually playing out weight gain fantasies in real life is not going to end well.



i think it's a serious problem that there aren't any kind of disclaimers or safeties at all like there are in BDSM etc... and that a lot of people who are clueless are being pandered to and lied to out right. playing is fantastic as long as people play safe and play honest.


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## gangstadawg

The Orange Mage said:


> Hell, that's old hat, the cool new thing to do is to do all the shoots for a paysite ahead of time, then get WLS, and then put up the paysite AFTER you're at your goal weight.


I thought the new hustle was to create a paysite to fund the surgery. guess I was wrong or behind on the times.


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## tonynyc

bigmac said:


> Yes, and the paysite world is as real as professional wrestling.
> 
> The REAL truth is that at some point -- a point that varies widely -- fatness becomes an extreme burden. A burden that makes having a fulfilling life very difficult.
> 
> I first met Zsalynn back in 1995. I was struck by how active and energetic she was despite weighing about 400 pounds. I haven't seen her IRL for a long while but it appears that she's gained about 150 pounds and its adversely affecting her quality of life. Its often the case its that the last 100 pounds or so is what (pardon the pun) tips the scales. Fat people in their twenties and thirties are, therefore, well advised to do all they can to avoid gaining that last 100 pounds. When members of the FA/SA community encourage already fat people to gain more weight they are contributing to a serious problem.
> 
> That said real life is real and fantasy is fantasy. *Professional wrestling may be low brow entertainment but its harmless *unless people start believing that you can wack another human being across the back of the head with a metal chair and not do any serious damage. Likewise paysites are, for some people, an easy way to address prurient interests. However, everyone involved (including the models) needs to realize that actually playing out weight gain fantasies in real life is not going to end well.



*
BigMac: 

Well I would have to differ on the fact of pro-wrestling being harmless - especially, given the number of well documented cases of performers/athletes dying young. 

Bottom line - depends what type of "Risk" one is willing to subject their bodies through - be it gaining weight - to the other extreme "working out" - it all comes at some price as folks get older.

*




wrestlingguy said:


> True, but aren't they the largest numbers and the loudest voices in the feeder community?
> 
> I wrote a blog about feederism a few years ago because of just that. I do think (contrary to what some of the SA leaders think) that we need all voices in the fat community to be heard.
> 
> My issue is that it's typically the wrong people that are marched out on the sensational TV shows, and they're the ones who give feederism, and in the process size acceptance, a bad name. THAT is one of the main reasons that most of the SA leaders don't want feederism associated with the movement.



*
Phil:

It's pretty much that - now I have not seen this documentary - so I cannot comment on it -but, I will make a point on prior documentaries/talk shows etc. etc.  I think much has changes as to "how" things are presented and it could be any aspect of the SA community (not necessarily "Feederism'') to have the wrong person marched out and present to the media/public a very skewed view of what things are. 
*




gangstadawg said:


> I thought the new hustle was to create a paysite to fund the surgery. guess I was wrong or behind on the times.



*Seems like a very extreme move *


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## superodalisque

i agree that the loudest voices are in the feeder community, mainly because that's where the profit is mostly likely to be in the BBW community. media is after all about money. let's face it there isn't a whole lot of market pressure anymore for fat women who aren't stuffing themselves sick or gaining to either immobility or nearly so. so even for the ones who aren't actually interested in being fatter, the way things are in the community right now, it's not financially smart for them to be publicly involved in healthy activities or eating healthily. it would be really easy to get into trouble especially with the folks out there who are insisting on real weight gain and are trying to get people fired from their website if they lose any weight at all for health reasons. 

i personally think the whole of feedism has a lot of logical conflicts that are easy to exploit since like every fetish it isn't based on any kind of reason per say. so the need to suspend logic to maintain fantasy is always going to be a natural product for some people involved in ways that don't reflect well on fat folk who don't fetishize their fat lives. but, the real problem isn't the fetish itself but that there are a number of people who don't know how to put the fantasy aside at the appropriate time and that insist the fantasy seems to always be more important than any kind of reality to them anywhere and at all times. they are ripe to be exploited because they present the most dramatic and extreme when it comes to attention getting for media ratings. everybody is interested in seeing the Guinness book of world records of human sexuality and they are it.

it's a shame but they have just about taken over the community, which is the main reason participation in fatcentric events are low. most fat people won't come because they don't want to be associated with any of that. so now most activities center around the BBW fetish porn crowd and their followers which is generally unattractively stereotypical to most fat people in the street who don't sit around eating lil debbies for show and have their significant others weighing and measuring them like the prize pig at the fair. and are often told that the only reason they don't like it is because they hate being fat. 

so yeah i do think it has a whole lot to do with why the fat community has so many negative connotations with the general public both fat and thin. and now that fat folk have a whole lot more choices today, where they can they totally opt out. that's why there is hardly any real fat community here in the south here it's more acceptable to be fat and fat folk don't have to tolerate always having to brand themselves as being abnormal in order to just socialize.


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## superodalisque

wrestlingguy said:


> I think you likely choose your friends wisely. Here are some quotes from a recent thread that I was reading today (on someone's blog page)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is from just one thread!
> 
> Additionally, I think that my recent post about former Man Vs. Food host Adam Richman is a great example of someone who's lost weight, and then goes out and shames other fat people. More important, while Richman's recent comments were more insulting and blatant, other celebrities who've done the same like Kirstie Alley and Jennifer Hudson have put down their former fat selves (albeit for scads of money), and in the process put down others by association. Does anyone else remember Alley's comment after she debuted her first hundred pound weight loss?



honestly i don't see anyone saying anybody has to be thin in any of those posts or fat bashing. what i do see is fat folk trying to debunk the idea that being fat is something* absolutely every* fat person *never* has any control over to *any* degree--another myth that needs to be debunked here. i see nothing wrong with people discouraging the helpless mentality that is often put forward in the community. if people were not always barraged with encouragement to be absolutely hopeless and hand wringing by people who aren't even fat and never have been maybe somebody like Zsalynn could have managed.


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## Emma

Sometimes I feel like I'm going to be the only fat person left.


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## superodalisque

it can be me and you Emma


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## bigmac

tonynyc said:


> *
> BigMac:
> 
> Well I would have to differ on the fact of pro-wrestling being harmless - especially, given the number of well documented cases of performers/athletes dying young.
> 
> ...
> 
> *


*


Good point, I was thinking about the effect upon the spectators, but its very true that people can and do go overboard in the pursuit of their "art."

I think this point is especially salient with regard to pay site models. Some pay site models talk about eating and gaining all the time but their weight stays fairly consistent. Others seem to actually live the fantasy and have gained massive amounts of weight (100+ lbs). Its this second group that's courting disaster.*


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## wrestlingguy

superodalisque said:


> honestly i don't see anyone saying anybody has to be thin in any of those posts or fat bashing. what i do see is fat folk trying to debunk the idea that being fat is something* absolutely every* fat person *never* has any control over to *any* degree--another myth that needs to be debunked here. i see nothing wrong with people discouraging the helpless mentality that is often put forward in the community. if people were not always barraged with encouragement to be absolutely hopeless and hand wringing by people who aren't even fat and never have been maybe somebody like Zsalynn could have managed.



I didn't say it was fat bashing at all. Those comments came from people who had lost a significant amount of weight, and feel like if they can do it, anyone can, which isn't the case.

There is a lot of danger in that mentality, and somehow transfering it to other people. Case in point, some people have claimed to have beaten cancer by putting themselves on a macrobiotic diet. Many of them have gone on to encourage others to do the same, with some disastrous results. Point here is that just because it worked for you, don't think it's going to work for the rest of the world.

I lost well over 100 lbs in my younger years, and kept all of it off for a really long time. I have never told someone else what they "need" to do to lose weight, because I've learned that all bodies are different. If it were so easy, most people would experience weight loss (except people who want to be fat), since most of them don't want to go through the daily fat hate & prejudice that goes on in today's world. THIS is the reason that so many people opt for WLS, because the medical world has made it out to be a panacea for everyone's problems (which it isn't, but that's for another thread).


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## joswitch

"...After graduating, Zsalynn found NAAFA (The National Association to Advanced Fat Acceptance); she was flown around the world to visit men who enjoyed the company of large women. This became her life  a life of parties, overweight women, and men who paid Zsaylnn's way to travel the world. ...."

Bwahahahahahahaaa!! I think the copywriter may have wandered into the fiction section of DIMs and not cottoned on.


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## joswitch

gangstadawg said:


> I thought the new hustle was to create a paysite to fund the surgery. guess I was wrong or behind on the times.



I don't think it's new? Been going on for a while...

*shrug*


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## superodalisque

wrestlingguy said:


> I didn't say it was fat bashing at all. Those comments came from people who had lost a significant amount of weight, and feel like if they can do it, anyone can, which isn't the case.
> 
> There is a lot of danger in that mentality, and somehow transfering it to other people. Case in point, some people have claimed to have beaten cancer by putting themselves on a macrobiotic diet. Many of them have gone on to encourage others to do the same, with some disastrous results. Point here is that just because it worked for you, don't think it's going to work for the rest of the world.
> 
> I lost well over 100 lbs in my younger years, and kept all of it off for a really long time. I have never told someone else what they "need" to do to lose weight, because I've learned that all bodies are different. If it were so easy, most people would experience weight loss (except people who want to be fat), since most of them don't want to go through the daily fat hate & prejudice that goes on in today's world. THIS is the reason that so many people opt for WLS, because the medical world has made it out to be a panacea for everyone's problems (which it isn't, but that's for another thread).



it maybe true that not everyone can lose weight but it also is not the case that absolutely everyone can't. quite a few of my friends were told they couldn't by people who weren't even fat but they could and did. and there are lots of people right here in the forums now who are monitoring themselves rather well to keep the balance that they personally want to have.

i don't think those posts are saying it's easy only that it's possible. i just find the idea of possibility in any sense way more attractive than impossibility. i hate that concept especially when it comes to a choice between a bit of control that somebody might be able to exert or people getting into a situation where they feel they must risk the extreme of WLS. most of the finger waving reminders that people can't lose any weight and under any circumstance or keep it off come from people who aren't and never have been fat and have something to gain , no pun intended, from encouraging hopelessness when it comes to fat people controlling their own body. mainly i see it as a lot of psychological sabotage. the goal of those people is not that fat folk control their own bodies but that they themselves get to change or control that fat body. anytime a fat person talks about possibilities and their own body i am behind *them* in that support.

most people opt for WLS because they are desperate and feel totally out of control of what is happening to their body, because they feel sick , tired weak and because they are in constant pain. if people would support and allow them that control in terms of just being able to manage themselves in order to stay feeling strong they'd probably never feel the desperation for WLS at all. the extreme views here of WLS or gaining are not reality for most fat folk. reality is somewhere in the middle. i just wish there was more realism in our ideas around what it takes to be a fat person and to feel physically good in that situation. nobody is advocating getting skinny or saying that being fat is bad, just trying not to get sick have constant pain. fat people should not have to give up the idea that many of us can and do have some say or impact on what happens to our own bodies.


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## Emma

I really don't care if she is fat or thin, its of no consequence to me. I wish her well, I honestly hope THIS time when she loses lots of weight she doesn't fucking alienate every fat friend or FA by being really really rude.


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## bigmac

superodalisque said:


> i don't think those posts are saying it's easy only that it's possible.* i just find the idea of possibility in any sense way more attractive than impossibility*. i hate that concept especially when it comes to a choice between a bit of control that somebody might be able to exert or people getting into a situation where they feel they must risk the extreme of WLS. most of the *finger waving reminders that people can't lose any weight and under any circumstance or keep it off *come from people who aren't and never have been fat and have something to gain , no pun intended, from encouraging hopelessness when it comes to fat people controlling their own body. mainly i see it as a lot of psychological sabotage. the goal of those people is not that fat folk control their own bodies but that they themselves get to change or control that fat body.* anytime a fat person talks about possibilities and their own body i am behind them in that support.*
> 
> ...




Major weight loss without WLS is indeed possible. However, its not easy as the over 95% failure rate attests. Long term major weight loss requires a lifelong commitment to exercise and healthy eating that's very difficult for the vast majority of people.

Its far easier to maintain your current weight than it is to loss weight. That's why I have such a problem with people who encourage others to gain weight. For many people its quite easy to gain weight. Unfortunately its these same people who have the hardest time loosing weight.


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## bigmac

Emma said:


> I really don't care if she is fat or thin, its of no consequence to me. I wish her well, I honestly hope THIS time when she loses lots of weight she doesn't fucking alienate every fat friend or FA by being really really rude.



While I'm sure some people who loose weight can be douches I've more often seen the venom flowing the other way. Over the years I've been present, many times, while the ostensible friends and acquaintances of formerly fat people talk shit. Indeed formerly fat people can be persona non grata at many BBW/FA events.


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## Dr. Feelgood

bigmac said:


> Major weight loss without WLS is indeed possible. However, its not easy as the over 95% failure rate attests.



Since you mention it ... I've often heard mention of this 95% failure rate, but I have never been able to track down any study or documentation that would nail it down. Can you (or anyone reading this) refer me to a source for this figure? I'm not disputing it; I just would like to know more.


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## wrestlingguy

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Since you mention it ... I've often heard mention of this 95% failure rate, but I have never been able to track down any study or documentation that would nail it down. Can you (or anyone reading this) refer me to a source for this figure? I'm not disputing it; I just would like to know more.



I've heard that number as well, and I'm not sure where it came from. I'm not aware of any comprehensive study that has covered the success/failure rates of every type of WLS available (and there are more than 2). The closest thing I've seen in a study was published in 2006, and I think medicine has made a few strides in this area over the past 7 years. Here's a link to that study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1856611/

I think that our thoughts are often skewed on the subject, since we personally know so many of the people who've had some sort of WLS and it failed. And, to return to SuperO's comments, that is the danger of simply putting this out as a solution to a "problem". See, if you don't say it's necessarily a problem, you don't need this kind of alternative as a solution.

For me, this is the essence of the Health At Every Size proposition, and although it does have some holes in it (in my opinion, there's still some size discrimination going on from the "regular" fatties to the "deathfat" morbidly obese), but generally it takes a more healthy approach based on the assumption that you needn't lose weight or size to better your health.


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## superodalisque

i personally know a number of fat folk from here and elsewhere who've lost enough of their weight for them to stay personally comfortable or get a little more comfortable. anecdotally speaking it seems a lot different from the 95% stat. most of them have done pretty well. i get the feeling what those stats mean by success is getting thin and not just getting down to a comfortable weight. people might want to take that into account whilst quoting it at fat folk who have absolutely no intention of ever being thin.


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## Gendo Ikari

It's about time Dims and the larger community in general confronted it's demons


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## bigmac

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Since you mention it ... I've often heard mention of this 95% failure rate, but I have never been able to track down any study or documentation that would nail it down. Can you (or anyone reading this) refer me to a source for this figure? I'm not disputing it; I just would like to know more.



Apparently the 95% number comes from a 1959 study -- that's not the greatest support -- however, no study since has found greater long-term weight loss success.

There doesn't appear to be a single statistically significant study that shows greater success. Hence all the _"results not typical"_ disclaimers in Weight Watchers and NutiSystem adds. If there was any actual proof that a particular diet or exercise program reliably worked the supporting studies would be all over the internet (they aren't). 

This web page is a nice summary of the 95% number: 

http://danceswithfat.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/do-95-of-dieters-really-fail/


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## superodalisque

bigmac said:


> Apparently the 95% number comes from a 1959 study -- that's not the greatest support -- however, no study since has found greater long-term weight loss success.
> 
> There doesn't appear to be a single statistically significant study that shows greater success. Hence all the _"results not typical"_ disclaimers in Weight Watchers and NutiSystem adds. If there was any actual proof that a particular diet or exercise program reliably worked the supporting studies would be all over the internet (they aren't).
> 
> This web page is a nice summary of the 95% number:
> 
> http://danceswithfat.wordpress.com/2011/06/28/do-95-of-dieters-really-fail/



again i doubt their idea of "success" is being comfortably fat


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## Tracyarts

" again i doubt their idea of "success" is being comfortably fat "

That is something that I don't believe is taken into consideration. 

If a person goes from 500 pounds to 300 pounds or even 400 pounds and maintains that weight, can they be considered a success story? As far as the medical community is concerned, they are still morbidly obese. As far as the weight loss industry is concerned, they have not achieved an ideal weight. As far as the general public is concerned, they are still a very fat person. So, no. They are looked upon as a failure. 

But if they see an improvement in their health and life quality, isn't that enough to qualify as success? 

Who gets to define "success" anyway? Shouldn't that be entirely up to the person in question? 

Tracy


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## lostinadaydream

Well, i'm rather sad to hear that a beloved icon of a woman and fat celebrator quietly sheds pounds (again) to counteract aims of fat acceptance. 

I don't believe the one and only "healthy" lifestile for all people, especially for supersized women, is to become a super thin and sporty person with a maximum weight of 130 lbs. Well, it shows that it is possible, but I wonder why one should change so dramatically? I think there can be health at any size and I know much thin women that are far away from being healthy, too. The only thing is, people _think_ about them that they were, just because they're thin!


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## bigmac

lostinadaydream said:


> Well, i'm rather sad to hear that a beloved icon of a woman and fat celebrator quietly sheds pounds (again) to counteract aims of fat acceptance.
> 
> I don't believe the one and only "healthy" lifestile for all people, especially for supersized women, is to become a super thin and sporty person with a maximum weight of 130 lbs. Well, it shows that it is possible, but I wonder why one should change so dramatically? *I think there can be health at any size* and I know much thin women that are far away from being healthy, too. The only thing is, people _think_ about them that they were, just because they're thin!



There are indeed healthy fat people -- healthy 200 pound people, yes -- healthy 300 pound people, sure -- healthy 400 pound people, a few. But I've never met a 600 pound person I'd consider healthy.


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## Dromond

There are limits to the amount of extra weight the human body can support. It's simple biology. That limit differs for each individual, there is no one size fits all limit (pun maybe intended). For instance, I know a woman who is healthy and happy at around 600 lbs. On the flip side, being around 400 lbs nearly killed me. You can't use one yardstick for everyone. It just doesn't work.


----------



## Jah

Tracyarts said:


> " again i doubt their idea of "success" is being comfortably fat "
> 
> That is something that I don't believe is taken into consideration.
> 
> If a person goes from 500 pounds to 300 pounds or even 400 pounds and maintains that weight, can they be considered a success story? As far as the medical community is concerned, they are still morbidly obese. As far as the weight loss industry is concerned, they have not achieved an ideal weight. As far as the general public is concerned, they are still a very fat person. So, no. They are looked upon as a failure.
> 
> But if they see an improvement in their health and life quality, isn't that enough to qualify as success?
> 
> Who gets to define "success" anyway? Shouldn't that be entirely up to the person in question?
> 
> Tracy



All you have to do is lose 30lbs and keep it off for a year to join The National Weight Control Registry. It doesn't matter if you are still morbidly obese.




Dromond said:


> There are limits to the amount of extra weight the human body can support. It's simple biology. That limit differs for each individual, there is no one size fits all limit (pun maybe intended). For instance, I know a woman who is healthy and happy at around 600 lbs. On the flip side, being around 400 lbs nearly killed me. You can't use one yardstick for everyone. It just doesn't work.



I developed high blood pressure problems at a bmi of just 27 as well as bad chafing rashes. I ended up having to be careful what I eat and moving to somewhere with a cooler climate so for some people it doesn't take much at all to develop problems. At a bmi of 34 I had difficulty getting out of a chair. I'm sick of being fat because of all the difficulties I've had and intend to get as close to having a normal bmi as I can. However some people manage to be healthy and not have problems at high weights so they don't really need to lose it.


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## loopytheone

Jah said:


> I developed high blood pressure problems at a bmi of just 27 as well as bad chafing rashes. I ended up having to be careful what I eat and moving to somewhere with a cooler climate so for some people it doesn't take much at all to develop problems. At a bmi of 34 I had difficulty getting out of a chair. I'm sick of being fat because of all the difficulties I've had and intend to get as close to having a normal bmi as I can. However some people manage to be healthy and not have problems at high weights so they don't really need to lose it.



I have to say this is a really good example of how different people can be. I have a BMI of around 34 and I am much fitter and stronger than when I had a BMI 21.5. For me I think it is the increase in muscle mass that came with the added weight along with the whole no-longer-starving-myself thing. From what you say the reverse would probably be true for you and you would feel physically more comfortable at the lower BMI.


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## bigmac

superodalisque said:


> i personally know a number of fat folk from here and elsewhere who've lost enough of their weight for them to stay personally comfortable or get a little more comfortable. anecdotally speaking it seems a lot different from the 95% stat. most of them have done pretty well. i get the feeling *what those stats mean by success* is getting thin and not just getting down to a comfortable weight. people might want to take that into account whilst quoting it at fat folk who have absolutely no intention of ever being thin.



A good point. What constitutes "success" really does depend on how the term success is defined.

While major long-term weight loss has not been achieved by the vast majority who try -- numerous studies have consistently shown that people who undertake to eat healthy and increase activity/exercise improve their health and wellness. For many "fat" people this is indeed success.


----------



## superodalisque

bigmac said:


> There are indeed healthy fat people -- healthy 200 pound people, yes -- healthy 300 pound people, sure -- healthy 400 pound people, a few. But I've never met a 600 pound person I'd consider healthy.



as much as i hate to admit it everyone i have met in person in that range is pretty miserable physically and is almost constantly in pain. there might be someone who isn't but i don't know them.


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## bigmac

superodalisque said:


> as much as i hate to admit it everyone i have met in person in that range is pretty miserable physically and is *almost constantly in pain*. there might be someone who isn't but i don't know them.



Yes, pretty much every person over 500 pounds I've met IRL has complained about pain. The inflammation associated with metabolic disorders combined with the physical stress on joints and muscles makes life very painful for these folks.


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## HereticFA

joswitch said:


> "...After graduating, Zsalynn found NAAFA (The National Association to Advanced Fat Acceptance); she was flown around the world to visit men who enjoyed the company of large women. This became her life  a life of parties, overweight women, and men who paid Zsaylnn's way to travel the world. ...."
> 
> Bwahahahahahahaaa!! I think the copywriter may have wandered into the fiction section of DIMs and not cottoned on.



And I suspect little of Zsa's life would be believed if it was documented, even as fat fiction. Actually she is just one of several SSBBWs in our community that enjoyed a "living larger than life" status which included multiple foreign trips on OPM and a very active social calendar. 

Truth IS stranger than fiction Jo, at least where a few of these SSBBW models are involved.


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## Tracyarts

" Truth IS stranger than fiction Jo, at least where a few of these SSBBW models are involved. "

OMG, yes! And it's not limited to models. The two fat women I've known who led "stranger than fiction" lives of luxury and leisure funded by admirers and lovers were never even part of the fat/BBW community or model industry. 

Tracy


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## Russell Williams

It is an oversimplification but if Oprah (who has gained and lost weight several times) cannot stay out of her icebox what hope is there for the rest of us? For the last 40 years more and more money has been spent on dieting programs and plans. During that same period of time the average American has been getting fatter. What more data is needed to determine whether or not dieting programs and plans are effective for the average person. When someone tells Louise that she should go on a diet she will often ask why they want her to be fatter. The unfortunate fact is that if a person wants another to be fatter, in most cases, the best way to fatten up the other person is to encourage them to go on a diet.


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## bigmac

Russell Williams said:


> It is an oversimplification but if Oprah (who has gained and lost weight several times) cannot stay out of her icebox what hope is there for the rest of us? For the last 40 years more and more money has been spent on dieting programs and plans. During that same period of time the average American has been getting fatter. What more data is needed to determine whether or not dieting programs and plans are effective for the average person. When someone tells Louise that she should go on a diet she will often ask why they want her to be fatter. The unfortunate fact is that if a person wants another to be fatter, in most cases, the best way to fatten up the other person is to encourage them to go on a diet.



Yes, diets don't work. However, if the only measure of success is weight loss, WLS does work. Of course WLS has its own set of limitations and negative effects.


----------



## Dr. Feelgood

bigmac said:


> Yes, diets don't work.



Diets work extremely well for a lot of people ... just not necessarily for dieters.  A friend of mine was, for many years, the head nurse of Dr, Robert Atkins (yes, _that_ Atkins). He amassed perhaps the greatest private collection of oriental art in America. Every time he published a new diet book I wondered what sort of antique it was paying for. Now _there_ was a man who knew how to make a diet work!


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## superodalisque

dieting is a misnomer i think. what really works for people are lifestyle changes like a more varied array of foods and moving more. it's not counting calories standing on scales and that old fashioned idea. but it ends up not with people being necessarily smaller but healthier and stronger for sure. usually the food ends up tasting a lot better too. people usually have to eat a whole lot more of tasteless stuff to feel satisfied. so if they do lose any weight it's because they are eating more satisfying food with more flavor. i'm all for that--more enjoyment!


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## Wayne_Zitkus

superodalisque said:


> dieting is a misnomer i think.



As Garfield the cat once said, "diet" is "die" with a "T".


----------



## Pauline

Please, I'm begging you'all not to judge me too harshly after reading my post. I have to say that I'm really happy for Zsa for doing what she thinks will make her happy & comfortable in her life...in fact I'm envious! I have wanted to lose weight forever but never seem to succeed at it. I read a few responses to this post and then realized that I'm so NOT into the politics side of it all so I can't comment on the few posts I did read. Let me just tell you how I feel. I started out as a happy chubby kid in a huge loving family, we ate for every occasion, happy or sad. I turned into a not-so-happy teenager who graduated high school at 300lbs. I didn't get my 1st kiss or 1st anything until I was 20 years old. I continued to get every jerk out there who wanted to try out a fat girl, which helped lower my already low self esteem. I had my only baby at age 29 weighing 400lbs and by time he was 2, I weighed 500lbs. I was no lazy pig, I always worked and went back to work when my son, Dillon was 2 weeks old. I did home daycare so I could have him with me. I nursed him until almost a year old, I took him to mommy & me classes, T-ball and Soccer or any other sport I thought he would like. I was the only mom who brought a metal folding chair from my trunk (that could hold my 500lbs), while all the other mom's brought their lightweight aluminum chairs. My point being that I did everything I thought a "normal" mom did, even at my size...but I couldn't go down the slide with him, or walk with him around Disneyland, I had to ask others to do that part, and it killed me. I loved my baby more than I loved myself and still to this day (like any mom), would do anything for him. One would think that that would have been motivation enough to lose weight, but still I struggled. I was lonely and wanted a good man who would accept my son and I without judgement of my size or the fact that I had a child. I continued to date...never had trouble finding a date but they didn't want forever like I did. During all of this I continued to try almost every diet out there, thinking that my troubles in finding a man was because of my size as it always had been. Then I got a computer and discovered Dimension's and the whole FA world out there. BOY WAS I IN HEAVEN! At that point I weighed 500 ish pounds, had a 2 year old baby & was very niave (unfortunately I still kinda am). I continued to bask in the glory of many men complimenting me and writing to me telling me that I was the most beautiful ssbbw they had ever seen. I have to be honest, it felt darn good! After writing to & talking on the phone to many, many men and still not finding a single guy in my area, I gave up on men and decided to be fat & happy with my then 8 year old son. I didn't need a man after all and we would live happily ever after on our own! Two weeks after I decided this, Alex fell into my lap. I will spare you 12 years worth of mostly good details, but now I am almost 200lbs heavier, a lot older and with new aches and pains. Alex did not force me to gain, there was a very short period where we decided that since I was so close to 700lbs that I would go ahead and get to it...I think I was about 650-675 at that point. Alex let me know that he LOVED big women and would continue to love me at any size. I was fat and happily married & without realizing it I got to 723lbs. I wasn't working at that point but I was still doing laundry & cooking for a family of 4 every night & performing any and ALL other wifely duties. Truthfully it was the happiest 10 years of my life but I couldn't get along with his teenaged son and regretfully now, I left him and we got divorced. I came home to California with the extra weight, extra years & extra knee pain that I didn't have before. Now, I am 50 years old, on my own and need help to just get my pants on. I could never walk out to check my mail, ride a bicycle, dance or even drive. I tried having a feeder for about 2 months...big mistake, not only was I always hungry and lost weight but he was the biggest cheapskate I ever met! I didn't really want to gain anyway, and he gave very little in exchange for big demands of private video's and repeated messenger details about how I wanted to be a "fat pig". I can't blame my weight on anyone else, I ate the food, I enjoy everything about food but it caused me the unhealthiness I have now and because I'm older the list will grow if I don't lose weight. Honestly, I don't mind being a fat girl...I think I felt pretty good at 350-400lbs. Once I had Dillon and gained to 500lbs I was still fully functional, working, driving and raising my boy but it was all getting to be too much, I was passing my breaking point. In 2010-2011 I also sold pictures and clips online because I was too heavy to have a "real" job and I needed some income. I feel I degraded myself for a few bucks (again no judgement to those who do it, I just couldn't) and after a few months I couldn't do it anymore. Right now, this minute, I think I weigh in the mid 600's, I haven't weighed since July so I'm not sure. I do want to lose weight, not because I hate it but because I have knee pain, Cellulitis and I want to live. I don't have hypertention, diabetes or sleep apnea and I don't want it. I also want to maybe see grandchildren one day, I love kids and my "baby" is 20 now, soon to be 21! Besides all of the fat politics, can you dig deep and really blame anyone for wanting to just live longer? Forget how they gained it or why, whether it was an illness or a hobby, just think of life....birds singing, colorful flowers blooming, walking in the park hand in hand with a loved one, dancing or hugging a grandbaby....there are so many reasons to live! I promise you now and after I lose weight, I LOVE everyone! I don't care if you are fat or skinny, white or black, in a wheelchair or not....I have always been judged so I try not to judge. I actually think fat people are super awesome because we have been judged so we value the quality of a friendship from those who haven't judged. I have many friends I have never met in person but have met online. So....now that I've poured out my life story, (so sorry I'm long winded) I just want to say, please don't hold it against anyone for being fat and wanting to lose. We just want the quality of life, the physical freedom that we see others enjoy. At least I do and I fear I've already done so much damage to myself that I don't have a lot of years left. I am sincere and I welcome any email to further discuss this or if anyone who has had success at a life plan that I haven't yet tried! My email is [email protected]

Hugs~
~Paulee :kiss2: 

View attachment PAULINEbeforeandafterdated.jpg


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## GordoNegro

I wish Zsalynn and Pauline nothing but the best as life is too short to be unhappy. I always believed if people aren't happy with their present selves then they need to make the changes needed to be successful and happy. Does this mean I will pay close attention to the Dr. Oz episodes, CNN appearances and other shows whose main purpose is to pinpoint how truly unhappy and disgusting fat people are to appease their multiple diet and beauty industry sponsors? No, I won't. 
I'm not going to support a way of thinking in which: the general public assumes that because the fattest folk they've ever seen (in their lifetimes)talk of their misery and difficulties maintaining hygene etc., look at me and assume the same.
I only hope; whether the natural way or WLS, those involved can make the LIFESTYLE changes needed to take the focus off food to fill different voids in life to achieve the happiness they seek.


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## superodalisque

Pauline all i can say is that i want everything you want for yourself for you girl. i just want you to be happy.


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## KHayes666

I don't have a problem with people being fat and wanting to lose. I have a problem with someone going on national television/media and burying the people who supported them for so long. I'm not talking about the ham-handers on the paysite board either.

Oh and Pauline, that's not a feeder you were with. That was a blowhard, real feeders aren't cheapskates.


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## superodalisque

KHayes666 said:


> I don't have a problem with people being fat and wanting to lose. I have a problem with someone going on national television/media and burying the people who supported them for so long. I'm not talking about the ham-handers on the paysite board either.
> 
> Oh and Pauline, that's not a feeder you were with. That was a blowhard, real feeders aren't cheapskates.



if people feel pissed off and let down by somebody's truth that's their problem. i think fat people should be able to talk about their experiences to whoever will listen. maybe somebody else will pay attention before they get to that point. personally i know and my fat gfs and i know a whole lot of cheap folk who can't afford the fantasy but want it anyway. that is NOT unusual. i mean, truly, what else is somebody who wants a woman to gain for real just because he pays his $14.99 or however much it is now? i think "support" is a huge over estimation considering that the vast majority of paysite models cannot depend on a paysite to even provide a living wage. we do need to get real. we do have a lot of people on the edge and using it for very basic and desperate survival money or those who are basically doing it just for a very little cash on the side while they work a regular job to underwrite the cost of heir social life. i was asked to do it. i wouldn't mainly because i'm not built that way emotionally and would not accept just any old kind of behavior towards me for money, but also because when i looked into it there was negligible financial benefit. so don't go overboard with the support thing. i think a lot of fans make much more of their financial contribution than it really amounts to especially when you compare it to the expenses incurred.

i don't think there is such a thing as a "real" feeder anymore than there is such a thing as a "real" man or a "real" woman. each individual has to stand on his own and answer for his/her own actions. if one feeder or more than one treated her that way she has the absolute right to say so. that is her truth. she does not need to clean it up for the rest of the people who want to share the label. she does not have to engage in group think. no more umbrella insurance for people just because of a label they adapt. absolutely everybody is answerable individually.

if someone shares labels with people they might inadvertently share the embarrassment or distaste for their behavior too, not just the benefits. that is the downside of accepting labels instead of just answering for ourselves and our own personal integrity.


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## GordoNegro

superodalisque said:


> if people feel pissed off and let down by somebody's truth that's their problem. i think fat people should be able to talk about their experiences to whoever will listen. maybe somebody else will pay attention before they get to that point. personally i know and my fat gfs and i know a whole lot of cheap folk who can't afford the fantasy but want it anyway. that is NOT unusual. i mean, truly, what else is somebody who wants a woman to gain for real just because he pays his $14.99 or however much it is now? i think "support" is a huge over estimation considering that the vast majority of paysite models cannot depend on a paysite to even provide a living wage. we do need to get real. we do have a lot of people on the edge and using it for very basic and desperate survival money or those who are basically doing it just for a very little cash on the side while they work a regular job to underwrite the cost of heir social life. i was asked to do it. i wouldn't mainly because i'm not built that way emotionally and would not accept just any old kind of behavior towards me for money, but also because when i looked into it there was negligible financial benefit. so don't go overboard with the support thing. i think a lot of fans make much more of their financial contribution than it really amounts to especially when you compare it to the expenses incurred.
> 
> i don't think there is such a thing as a "real" feeder anymore than there is such a thing as a "real" man or a "real" woman. each individual has to stand on his own and answer for his/her own actions. if one feeder or more than one treated her that way she has the absolute right to say so. that is her truth. she does not need to clean it up for the rest of the people who want to share the label. she does not have to engage in group think. no more umbrella insurance for people just because of a label they adapt. absolutely everybody is answerable individually.
> 
> if someone shares labels with people they might inadvertently share the embarrassment or distaste for their behavior too, not just the benefits. that is the downside of accepting labels instead of just answering for ourselves and our own personal integrity.




How many times have fat people talked of their experiences publicly to where there was no crying, misery, regret etc. The point of view is skewed as a whole. We are all individuals and yes there are mean, cheapskate feeders out there, though not everyone likes being put under the same 'umbrella' even though everyone is entitled to his/her point of view.


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## StrugglingWriter

superodalisque said:


> i don't think the media is necessarily after fat people. just silly illogical people, and boy have they been given them plenty.



This. Win.


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## joswitch

HereticFA said:


> And I suspect little of Zsa's life would be believed if it was documented, even as fat fiction. Actually she is just one of several SSBBWs in our community that enjoyed a "living larger than life" status which included multiple foreign trips on OPM and a very active social calendar.
> 
> Truth IS stranger than fiction Jo, at least where a few of these SSBBW models are involved.



OPM?? stands for?


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## joswitch

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Diets work extremely well for a lot of people ... just not necessarily for dieters.  A friend of mine was, for many years, the head nurse of Dr, Robert Atkins (yes, _that_ Atkins). He amassed perhaps the greatest private collection of oriental art in America. Every time he published a new diet book I wondered what sort of antique it was paying for. Now _there_ was a man who knew how to make a diet work!



Hahahaahah! *applause*


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## joswitch

Tracyarts said:


> " Truth IS stranger than fiction Jo, at least where a few of these SSBBW models are involved. "
> 
> OMG, yes! And it's not limited to models. The two fat women I've known who led "stranger than fiction" lives of luxury and leisure funded by admirers and lovers were never even part of the fat/BBW community or model industry.
> 
> Tracy



Blimey! 

Lucky for some, eh?


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## tonynyc

joswitch said:


> OPM?? stands for?



Take your pick

_Office of Personnel Management
Other People's Money
Other People's Music
Open Peoples Minds_


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## bigmac

KHayes666 said:


> I don't have a problem with people being fat and wanting to lose. I have a problem with someone going on national television/media and *burying the people who supported them for so long*. I'm not talking about the ham-handers on the paysite board either.
> 
> Oh and Pauline, that's not a feeder you were with. That was a blowhard, real feeders aren't cheapskates.




I'm a little confused. Who did Pauline throw under the bus?


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## Marlayna

Pauline said:


> Please, I'm begging you'all not to judge me too harshly after reading my post. I have to say that I'm really happy for Zsa for doing what she thinks will make her happy & comfortable in her life...in fact I'm envious! I have wanted to lose weight forever but never seem to succeed at it. I read a few responses to this post and then realized that I'm so NOT into the politics side of it all so I can't comment on the few posts I did read. Let me just tell you how I feel. I started out as a happy chubby kid in a huge loving family, we ate for every occasion, happy or sad. I turned into a not-so-happy teenager who graduated high school at 300lbs. I didn't get my 1st kiss or 1st anything until I was 20 years old. I continued to get every jerk out there who wanted to try out a fat girl, which helped lower my already low self esteem. I had my only baby at age 29 weighing 400lbs and by time he was 2, I weighed 500lbs. I was no lazy pig, I always worked and went back to work when my son, Dillon was 2 weeks old. I did home daycare so I could have him with me. I nursed him until almost a year old, I took him to mommy & me classes, T-ball and Soccer or any other sport I thought he would like. I was the only mom who brought a metal folding chair from my trunk (that could hold my 500lbs), while all the other mom's brought their lightweight aluminum chairs. My point being that I did everything I thought a "normal" mom did, even at my size...but I couldn't go down the slide with him, or walk with him around Disneyland, I had to ask others to do that part, and it killed me. I loved my baby more than I loved myself and still to this day (like any mom), would do anything for him. One would think that that would have been motivation enough to lose weight, but still I struggled. I was lonely and wanted a good man who would accept my son and I without judgement of my size or the fact that I had a child. I continued to date...never had trouble finding a date but they didn't want forever like I did. During all of this I continued to try almost every diet out there, thinking that my troubles in finding a man was because of my size as it always had been. Then I got a computer and discovered Dimension's and the whole FA world out there. BOY WAS I IN HEAVEN! At that point I weighed 500 ish pounds, had a 2 year old baby & was very niave (unfortunately I still kinda am). I continued to bask in the glory of many men complimenting me and writing to me telling me that I was the most beautiful ssbbw they had ever seen. I have to be honest, it felt darn good! After writing to & talking on the phone to many, many men and still not finding a single guy in my area, I gave up on men and decided to be fat & happy with my then 8 year old son. I didn't need a man after all and we would live happily ever after on our own! Two weeks after I decided this, Alex fell into my lap. I will spare you 12 years worth of mostly good details, but now I am almost 200lbs heavier, a lot older and with new aches and pains. Alex did not force me to gain, there was a very short period where we decided that since I was so close to 700lbs that I would go ahead and get to it...I think I was about 650-675 at that point. Alex let me know that he LOVED big women and would continue to love me at any size. I was fat and happily married & without realizing it I got to 723lbs. I wasn't working at that point but I was still doing laundry & cooking for a family of 4 every night & performing any and ALL other wifely duties. Truthfully it was the happiest 10 years of my life but I couldn't get along with his teenaged son and regretfully now, I left him and we got divorced. I came home to California with the extra weight, extra years & extra knee pain that I didn't have before. Now, I am 50 years old, on my own and need help to just get my pants on. I could never walk out to check my mail, ride a bicycle, dance or even drive. I tried having a feeder for about 2 months...big mistake, not only was I always hungry and lost weight but he was the biggest cheapskate I ever met! I didn't really want to gain anyway, and he gave very little in exchange for big demands of private video's and repeated messenger details about how I wanted to be a "fat pig". I can't blame my weight on anyone else, I ate the food, I enjoy everything about food but it caused me the unhealthiness I have now and because I'm older the list will grow if I don't lose weight. Honestly, I don't mind being a fat girl...I think I felt pretty good at 350-400lbs. Once I had Dillon and gained to 500lbs I was still fully functional, working, driving and raising my boy but it was all getting to be too much, I was passing my breaking point. In 2010-2011 I also sold pictures and clips online because I was too heavy to have a "real" job and I needed some income. I feel I degraded myself for a few bucks (again no judgement to those who do it, I just couldn't) and after a few months I couldn't do it anymore. Right now, this minute, I think I weigh in the mid 600's, I haven't weighed since July so I'm not sure. I do want to lose weight, not because I hate it but because I have knee pain, Cellulitis and I want to live. I don't have hypertention, diabetes or sleep apnea and I don't want it. I also want to maybe see grandchildren one day, I love kids and my "baby" is 20 now, soon to be 21! Besides all of the fat politics, can you dig deep and really blame anyone for wanting to just live longer? Forget how they gained it or why, whether it was an illness or a hobby, just think of life....birds singing, colorful flowers blooming, walking in the park hand in hand with a loved one, dancing or hugging a grandbaby....there are so many reasons to live! I promise you now and after I lose weight, I LOVE everyone! I don't care if you are fat or skinny, white or black, in a wheelchair or not....I have always been judged so I try not to judge. I actually think fat people are super awesome because we have been judged so we value the quality of a friendship from those who haven't judged. I have many friends I have never met in person but have met online. So....now that I've poured out my life story, (so sorry I'm long winded) I just want to say, please don't hold it against anyone for being fat and wanting to lose. We just want the quality of life, the physical freedom that we see others enjoy. At least I do and I fear I've already done so much damage to myself that I don't have a lot of years left. I am sincere and I welcome any email to further discuss this or if anyone who has had success at a life plan that I haven't yet tried! My email is [email protected]
> 
> Hugs~
> ~Paulee :kiss2:


Thanks for this post, Pauline, you're a brave and articulate woman. I hope the lessons you've learned in life can help others. Much luck to you in 2014.


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## superodalisque

GordoNegro said:


> How many times have fat people talked of their experiences publicly to where there was no crying, misery, regret etc. The point of view is skewed as a whole. We are all individuals and yes there are mean, cheapskate feeders out there, though not everyone likes being put under the same 'umbrella' even though everyone is entitled to his/her point of view.



in terms of being positive they're doing it now if people are listening. is it at all realistic to expect people who feel they have to resort to an extreme like WLS are going to be doing happy talk or feeling good? i don't think so. but on the other hand whoever said that people actually have to like everything coming out of a fat person's mouth?

and, also if people dislike any media portraying the downside of people being fat they shouldn't watch it and they should either raise funds and create alternatives or pressure for alternatives. in other words they need to actually DO something.


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## KHayes666

bigmac said:


> I'm a little confused. Who did Pauline throw under the bus?



Not her speficially but in general. I've seen it before.


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## joswitch

tonynyc said:


> Take your pick
> 
> _Office of Personnel Management
> Other People's Money
> Other People's Music
> Open Peoples Minds_



Aha! thanks Tony!


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## GordoNegro

superodalisque said:


> in terms of being positive they're doing it now if people are listening. is it at all realistic to expect people who feel they have to resort to an extreme like WLS are going to be doing happy talk or feeling good? i don't think so. but on the other hand whoever said that people actually have to like everything coming out of a fat person's mouth?
> 
> and, also if people dislike any media portraying the downside of people being fat they shouldn't watch it and they should either raise funds and create alternatives or pressure for alternatives. in other words they need to actually DO something.



Like I said, the media view is skewed 1 way; knowing people who are not satisfied or happy with themselves are more likely to buy multiple products/systems etc. so that they can find perceived happiness. No one said, I had to like every opinion from a fat person's mouth, even if it's the same repeated opinion year after year. You're right, I won't be watching the ET promo with Zsalynn crying/promoting 600lb life tonight on CBS. I guess I could save $ and get a network across like Oprah did, attend more bbw parties and NAAFA meets, or be more fat-positive for those who wish to hear it.


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## superodalisque

actually that paradigm could be challenged if we can show that fat people who are happy about themselves are likely to buy more clothes foods spend on vacations and go out more. we need to show them that but our own PR is too negative and we don't create enough opportunities to highlight those possibilities. there are a lot of thin women we fat ladies actually give confidence to. i've seen it happen in vegas. when we are brave it spreads to other women who also start feeling they don't have to have an excuse for living or be media perfect to enjoy life. and whilst living , going places and doing things we also consume and possibly more than when our self esteem is bad and we stay at home. who needs to buy all of that stuff if you've given up on being social anyway? fat women and thin women have given up on being social. i have plenty of thin friends who haven't dated etc.. in years. not that cats aren't fantastic but we have a whole lot of pretty cat ladies staying at home these days of ALL sizes. when the economy improves a bit it would be nice to find ways to showcase the buying power of confident happy women.


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## bigmac

GordoNegro said:


> How many times have fat people talked of their experiences publicly to where there was *no crying, misery, regret etc.* The point of view is skewed as a whole. ...




The unfortunate fact is that there is lots of "crying, misery, and regret" in the super-size community. Many extra-large deeply regret choices they've made over the years. Poor choices (often, but not always, facilitated) have turned many people who could have happy 200 or 300 pound fat people into miserable 500 or 600 pound people.

Zsalynn's and Pauline's stories are but two of many. Indeed just this weekend a close friend lamented about how she hated "what she did to herself."

This is the dark side of our community. A side many would just as soon ignore.


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## Jah

You don't have to be supersize to have regrets. I 270 pounds and have regrets. I didn't realise how good I had it when I was thinner. But then I'm a FFA that gained weight while married due to picking up some of my BHM husband's habits. I don't think weightloss and fat acceptance should be in conflict. It's not fair to force fat people into losing weight but it's equally not fair to say that a fat person has to stay fat.


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## Marlayna

bigmac said:


> The unfortunate fact is that there is lots of "crying, misery, and regret" in the super-size community. Many extra-large deeply regret choices they've made over the years. Poor choices (often, but not always, facilitated) have turned many people who could have happy 200 or 300 pound fat people into miserable 500 or 600 pound people.
> 
> Zsalynn's and Pauline's stories are but two of many. Indeed just this weekend a close friend lamented about how she hated "what she did to herself."
> 
> This is the dark side of our community. A side many would just as soon ignore.


Yes, the quality of life is compromised, the higher one goes. With age comes wisdom, but sadly, friendly advice is usually met with "myob".


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## Gendo Ikari

bigmac said:


> The unfortunate fact is that there is lots of "crying, misery, and regret" in the super-size community. Many extra-large deeply regret choices they've made over the years. Poor choices (often, but not always, facilitated) have turned many people who could have happy 200 or 300 pound fat people into miserable 500 or 600 pound people.
> 
> Zsalynn's and Pauline's stories are but two of many. Indeed just this weekend a close friend lamented about how she hated "what she did to herself."
> 
> This is the dark side of our community. A side many would just as soon ignore.


The sooner we, as a community as a whole from Dims to Curvage to BBWchan to Deviantart, confront these demons and skeletons in our closet, the better I believe things will be. 

Things will at least be honest.


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## loveembig

bigmac said:


> The unfortunate fact is that there is lots of "crying, misery, and regret" in the super-size community. Many extra-large deeply regret choices they've made over the years. Poor choices (often, but not always, facilitated) have turned many people who could have happy 200 or 300 pound fat people into miserable 500 or 600 pound people.
> 
> Zsalynn's and Pauline's stories are but two of many. Indeed just this weekend a close friend lamented about how she hated "what she did to herself."
> 
> This is the dark side of our community. A side many would just as soon ignore.



^ This is spot on, but I would also like to add my own 2 cents.

Ive watched and lurked around this community for going on approx. 20 years now; going all the way back to the early to mid-90s when I first discovered that it had an internet presence. Although I never jumped in with both feet or became an active member or became an frequent poster around here Ive watched it go thru a lot of changes. Ive also seen a lot of denial and watched an incomprehensible, illogical, ideological dogma evolve regarding extreme weight, its health consequences and weight loss. It wasnt all that long ago when the prevailing attitude was one that claimed a person could be 5, 6 or 700lbs and still be happy, healthy and lead a full life. Unfortunately for most of us who live in the real world that is a blatant lie that we told ourselves so we could feel good about our lifestyle choices. It was also totally contrary to my own previous life lessons and experiences. I can recall the few times I tried to discuss this and interject my own contrary point of view; most notably on my old Yahoo group site and My DA page as well, I was met with outrage, denial and an how dare you attitude from many of the members of the FA and feederism communities. It doesnt take long to realize that some people simply want to live a lie and fool themselves into believing their own bullshit especially when they can run and find support from dozens of other people who are of like mind. So I do believe that many of us instead of facing and continuing to discuss the issue simple skirted and glossed over it for years. Its only when stuff like the subject of this thread comes to the surface and forces many of us to look in the mirror that we start to realize just how screwed many in the SA community actually are.


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## Gendo Ikari

loveembig said:


> ^ This is spot on, but I would also like to add my own 2 cents.
> 
> Ive watched and lurked around this community for going on approx. 20 years now; going all the way back to the early to mid-90s when I first discovered that it had an internet presence. Although I never jumped in with both feet or became an active member or became an frequent poster around here Ive watched it go thru a lot of changes. Ive also seen a lot of denial and watched an incomprehensible, illogical, ideological dogma evolve regarding extreme weight, its health consequences and weight loss. It wasnt all that long ago when the prevailing attitude was one that claimed a person could be 5, 6 or 700lbs and still be happy, healthy and lead a full life. Unfortunately for most of us who live in the real world that is a blatant lie that we told ourselves so we could feel good about our lifestyle choices. It was also totally contrary to my own previous life lessons and experiences. I can recall the few times I tried to discuss this and interject my own contrary point of view; most notably on my old Yahoo group site and My DA page as well, I was met with outrage, denial and an how dare you attitude from many of the members of the FA and feederism communities. It doesnt take long to realize that some people simply want to live a lie and fool themselves into believing their own bullshit especially when they can run and find support from dozens of other people who are of like mind. So I do believe that many of us instead of facing and continuing to discuss the issue simple skirted and glossed over it for years. Its only when stuff like the subject of this thread comes to the surface and forces many of us to look in the mirror that we start to realize just how screwed many in the SA community actually are.


Exactly. Ignoring the elephant in the room combined with the inherent dishonesty in the system.

It's funny to me, a subculture like ours, based on a taboo in American (for the most part) society, has it's own set of taboos that should not be talked about, but glossed over and ignored.

The WLS forum has been pretty active for the good part of the past two years...


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## loopytheone

loveembig said:


> ^ This is spot on, but I would also like to add my own 2 cents.
> 
> Ive watched and lurked around this community for going on approx. 20 years now; going all the way back to the early to mid-90s when I first discovered that it had an internet presence. Although I never jumped in with both feet or became an active member or became an frequent poster around here Ive watched it go thru a lot of changes. Ive also seen a lot of denial and watched an incomprehensible, illogical, ideological dogma evolve regarding extreme weight, its health consequences and weight loss. It wasnt all that long ago when the prevailing attitude was one that* claimed a person could be 5, 6 or 700lbs and still be happy, healthy and lead a full life*. Unfortunately for most of us who live in the real world that is a blatant lie that we told ourselves so we could feel good about our lifestyle choices. It was also totally contrary to my own previous life lessons and experiences. I can recall the few times I tried to discuss this and interject my own contrary point of view; most notably on my old Yahoo group site and My DA page as well, I was met with outrage, denial and an how dare you attitude from many of the members of the FA and feederism communities. It doesnt take long to realize that some people simply want to live a lie and fool themselves into believing their own bullshit especially when they can run and find support from dozens of other people who are of like mind. So I do believe that many of us instead of facing and continuing to discuss the issue simple skirted and glossed over it for years. Its only when stuff like the subject of this thread comes to the surface and forces many of us to look in the mirror that we start to realize just how screwed many in the SA community actually are.



I have to disagree with you saying this isn't possible. You can brand everybody who thinks differently to you with one umbrella of 'denial' if you like but that doesn't make it true or everybody who disagrees with you wrong. Are there people who can be healthy at that size? Yes. Simple statistics dictates that, the human population follows a bell curve of weights and will follow a bell curve of 'highest healthiest weight' as well. There are therefore going to be increasingly less people who are healthy as you get to the higher weights but there is no such thing as a maximum healthy weight and saying that there is only serves to alienate the larger members of our community. Secondly, as somebody who happens to be an expert on mammal physiology and therefore pretty well versed in human physiology, I see absolutely no reason why at 500lbs or any other arbitrary weight every single human body would be unable to cope. Every person is different and there will be people who are healthy at 600lbs. Just because you don't know any doesn't mean they don't exist, it just means they aren't online in the same places you are or don't feel like posting. Thirdly, I know more than one lady on this forum who weighs more than 500lbs who has a successful career, is perfectly mobile and lives a happy and profitable life that frankly I am more than a little envious of! So making sweeping statements about how nobody can be healthy at higher weights and that everybody who thinks differently is in denial is just unhelpful and untrue. Is every super sized person healthy? No. Can excess weight cause health problems? Yes. But there is no magic number for the whole population to be under or they are 'unhealthy', that is exactly the same concept that the BMI charts use to tell me I can't be healthy if I am above 136lbs.


----------



## Saoirse

You know why Great Danes and other large breed dogs have 10 year life spans? Cause their bodies are too big. Thats just how it is.


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## loopytheone

Saoirse said:


> You know why Great Danes and other large breed dogs have 10 year life spans? Cause their bodies are too big. Thats just how it is.



Explain elephants. And mice. And the general link between increased size and extended life across the animal kingdom. Also, dogs such as great danes tend to be the most highly bred where as things such as terrier are more rarely bred and hence less likely to obtain genetic illness or build up of small genetic defects that affect like expectancy. Also, their is a huge difference in biology between obesity and an overall increase in bone size. A great dane is more comparable to a human with a growth disorder causing extreme height. Extremely tall humans tend to live shorter lives than average height people, regardless of the level of fat on their bodies. That is a result of having a heart that has to work harder to reach longer distances against gravity; most large breeds of dog tend to have heart issues, though my 12 inch terrier who has had congestive heart failure since five years old can tell you this isn't always the case. In obese people there is an increase in the amount of fat in the body but not in the amount of muscle or bone etc which is where the problems with large breeds of dog come from. Hence boxers having more heart conditions and a shorter life span than, say, a dalmatian. Both are naturally lean dogs of similar heights but the difference in life span is significant.


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## MillyLittleMonster

KHayes666 said:


> Are we really that surprised anymore? They milk the paysites for all they're worth then go on national television to either get a reality tv deal or to lose weight. I've grown immune to things like this.
> 
> Oh and I love how Christina's husband (if you clicked on the season 2 cast list) looks like every stereotypical a-hole FA I've ever known online or in person. You can almost see the disdain on his face in the picture that she wants to lose weight.



I had a look and I admit I laughed...
Here is the link.

http://www.poptower.com/christina-my-600-lb-life-picture-129181.htm


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## superodalisque

loveembig said:


> ^ This is spot on, but I would also like to add my own 2 cents.
> 
> I’ve watched and lurked around this community for going on approx. 20 years now; going all the way back to the early to mid-90s when I first discovered that it had an internet presence. Although I never jumped in with both feet or became an active member or became an frequent poster around here I’ve watched it go thru a lot of changes. I’ve also seen a lot of denial and watched an incomprehensible, illogical, ideological dogma evolve regarding extreme weight, its health consequences and weight loss. It wasn’t all that long ago when the prevailing attitude was one that claimed a person could be 5, 6 or 700lbs and still be happy, healthy and lead a full life. Unfortunately for most of us who live in the real world that is a blatant lie that we told ourselves so we could feel good about our lifestyle choices. It was also totally contrary to my own previous life lessons and experiences. I can recall the few times I tried to discuss this and interject my own contrary point of view; most notably on my old Yahoo group site and My DA page as well, I was met with outrage, denial and an “how dare you” attitude from many of the members of the FA and feederism communities. It doesn’t take long to realize that some people simply want to live a lie and fool themselves into believing their own bullshit especially when they can run and find support from dozens of other people who are of like mind. So I do believe that many of us instead of facing and continuing to discuss the issue simple skirted and glossed over it for years. It’s only when stuff like the subject of this thread comes to the surface and forces many of us to look in the mirror that we start to realize just how screwed many in the SA community actually are.



i'm very proud of you for saying this. people won't make it easy. denial in some is impenetrable especially they are inexperienced and really don't know too many of the people they ogle personally IRL and never see what they have to deal with on a daily basis. there is also a lot of cognizant dissonance in the community among the ones who've been here for a while because of cognizant dissonance and ego. there are people who have gotten very drunk on fat attention and the power it has given them and put themselves out there are the arbiters of fat people's choices about their bodies, as though someone can determine exactly what each fat person has a right to when it comes to his/her own body. i really respect you for standing up in order to protect the people we care about. i'm not just talking about women or men encouraged to go to the extent of being immobile or passing away either. 

nobody talks about the admirers who get caught up in the unintended consequences and the guilt they feel about the results they may or may not be the cause of. i know people who've committed suicide around it. i know people who've had mental breaks because of the internal conflict. i know people who've become abusive toward folks because of the strain. i know people who've gotten blamed or branded because they left a situation that was underplayed to sucker them in that actually turned out to be too much to ask anybody to carry that you barely know. i know some who've done exactly as their partner asked and when the person became ill were made the scapegoat even though the person later admitted they had an eating disorder. meanwhile the demonization stuck and the apology was never heard. 

whe things get to be too much for an admirer suddenly they are told they don't really like fat people or they are not "real" admirers or that they are closeted. the truth is some have been suckered in by people who need a caretaker and not everyone is cut out for that or ever wants to do it. ask anyone who has ever had to take care of anyone who can't take care of themselves of any size. it's very difficult emotionally and physically and a caretaker can very easily end up in the hospital themselves. so it's not just about fat people being harmed. i mean it from the bottom of my heart when i say that i care just as much about people who are for fat folk as i do about fat folk , which is exactly why i say some of the hard stuff that i do. and the "admirers" who really know me know that i love them just like i love my fat friends. i don't want them to be hurt either. 

at some point everyone has to face reality. it's so easy to say "no, no that doesn't happen", when you are basically just fantasizing about extremes with a smaller partner. a whole lot of people get caught up like that especially, as you have said, there has been a lot of pressure not to talk about what actually happens to people we know and love that we've been friends with IRL for what seems like forever. but sometimes we need to break from the party line. fun is one thing. fantasy is one thing. reality is something else. expecting fat people to bring their real lives in line with fantasy is a huge problem. admirers who expect that they can are often setting themselves up or a huge problem. i truly hope the people who haven't do wake up before personal reality forces them to.


----------



## bigmac

loopytheone said:


> I have to disagree with you saying this isn't possible. You can brand everybody who thinks differently to you with one umbrella of 'denial' if you like but that doesn't make it true or everybody who disagrees with you wrong. Are there people who can be healthy at that size? Yes. Simple statistics dictates that, the human population follows a bell curve of weights and will follow a bell curve of 'highest healthiest weight' as well. There are therefore going to be increasingly less people who are healthy as you get to the higher weights but there is no such thing as a maximum healthy weight and saying that there is only serves to alienate the larger members of our community. Secondly, as somebody who happens to be an expert on mammal physiology and therefore pretty well versed in human physiology, I see absolutely no reason why at 500lbs or any other arbitrary weight every single human body would be unable to cope. Every person is different and there will be people who are healthy at 600lbs. Just because you don't know any doesn't mean they don't exist, it just means they aren't online in the same places you are or don't feel like posting. Thirdly, I know more than one lady on this forum who weighs more than 500lbs who has a successful career, is perfectly mobile and lives a happy and profitable life that frankly I am more than a little envious of! So making sweeping statements about how nobody can be healthy at higher weights and that everybody who thinks differently is in denial is just unhelpful and untrue. Is every super sized person healthy? No. Can excess weight cause health problems? Yes. But there is no magic number for the whole population to be under or they are 'unhealthy', that is exactly the same concept that the BMI charts use to tell me I can't be healthy if I am above 136lbs.



I've never asserted that there is some magic number over which good health is impossible. I'm also very aware that many many people actually function better and are healthier at weights above those recommended. For example height/weight charts all say I should weigh less than 220 pounds (I'm a 6'4" male). For me 220 pounds is an unreasonably low weight (when I left the Army at age 30 I was in great shape and weighted 250 pounds). A healthy weight range for me would be about 250 to 280 pounds. As I approach 50 years old and weigh a little over 300 pounds its become increasingly clear that to maintain my health and remain active I have to loose at least 25 pounds. 

Given my height and significant lean body mass I doubt there are many people out there better equipped to carry significant body weight. I'm quite sure that if I weighed 500 pounds I'd still be mobile enough to perform the minimum required activities of life. However, I'm also quite sure I'd be unhealthy and miserable.

The bottom line is that you can exceed the weights recommended on those stupid height weight charts by a considerable margin and still be healthy, active, and happy. However, there comes a point when fat and health are incompatible.


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## superodalisque

loopytheone said:


> I have to disagree with you saying this isn't possible. You can brand everybody who thinks differently to you with one umbrella of 'denial' if you like but that doesn't make it true or everybody who disagrees with you wrong. Are there people who can be healthy at that size? Yes. Simple statistics dictates that, the human population follows a bell curve of weights and will follow a bell curve of 'highest healthiest weight' as well. There are therefore going to be increasingly less people who are healthy as you get to the higher weights but there is no such thing as a maximum healthy weight and saying that there is only serves to alienate the larger members of our community. Secondly, as somebody who happens to be an expert on mammal physiology and therefore pretty well versed in human physiology, I see absolutely no reason why at 500lbs or any other arbitrary weight every single human body would be unable to cope. Every person is different and there will be people who are healthy at 600lbs. Just because you don't know any doesn't mean they don't exist, it just means they aren't online in the same places you are or don't feel like posting. Thirdly, I know more than one lady on this forum who weighs more than 500lbs who has a successful career, is perfectly mobile and lives a happy and profitable life that frankly I am more than a little envious of! So making sweeping statements about how nobody can be healthy at higher weights and that everybody who thinks differently is in denial is just unhelpful and untrue. Is every super sized person healthy? No. Can excess weight cause health problems? Yes. But there is no magic number for the whole population to be under or they are 'unhealthy', that is exactly the same concept that the BMI charts use to tell me I can't be healthy if I am above 136lbs.



i'm curious, have you ever met those women in person? i used to think the same until i actually met and got to know people IRL. and also what is their age? that has a lot to do with it as well.


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## Scarlette

I don't say a lot on this board for a few reasons, and some of which get touched upon in the posts I have read in this thread. I am watching this episode as I type this. I write this from MY perspective/situation etc. 
Disclaimer: I pass NO judgment, and try my best not to offend, as that is not my intention. I also am not the best with words, so if i ramble, jump all over well, you've been warned! (how diplomatic Canadian of me huh!)

I am all for people doing what they want, and if they aren't healthy or happy in their own mind, then all the power to them. Zsalynne does say she did travel, enjoyed events, felt like Miss America in the community. BUT did say after time she wasn't living, was miserable and just existing. So she has made the decision for herself and for that I say kudos. IMO, and again I do not know her or husband, nor claim to know their full dynamic, found him to be a bit of a schmuck. Just saying.( I am sure I will get flack for that, and again it could be how they show him in media)

I am a web model, and have been since I was 30. I started out when I was about 230lbs and am currently about 275lbs. I NEVER intended to gain, nor ever planned to gain, nor play up that I am a gainer. I do post on the webmodel section as a means to marketing and that is part of "the industry". I am aware some girls do the "fantasy gaining" thing in pictures, and I won't lie, I can eat a whole pizza, dozen donuts etc (yes i did this on boxing day even) but I do not film it as I find eating FOR ME is a private thing. I am posting all this because I read something about models making $ off the weight, and then snubbing the people who supported their career/past. I have seen this happen and don't necessarily agree with them.
That being said, I have been told I am way to small on here before, at events, and by web masters. I have NO intention to gain (as I have stated) and it can be just as hurtful/annoying/damaging to people as being told to lose weight, be thin, etc. Now saying I want to lose weight is up to me, in will power and choice. Saying that on here (or other boards) can be a bit taboo, but again, I like to think this is about SA etc. 
As for those that gain because THEY want to, I say do as you want; But I know that its easier to put on then take off. And as you get older, its even harder. I do know that there are some girls that purposely gain for their modelling careers (have even told me so) and this worries me for the difficulties to lose, and the stress puts on them. I shouldn't be concerned but I am as I know how frustrating it can be to lose. 

As for the aspect of my health, last dr's visit I am internally healthy re: blood tests, cholesterol, no diabetes, heart etc etc is all good. HOWEVER, my knees and hips hurt. I am out of shape and I know this because I use to play sports, go out dancing lots and now, well I don't and get winded easy etc. 
I would like to lose weight and be about 180 which I was in high school (haha yes I know many ppl wish could be high school weight) but I felt healthy and didn't hurt. Heck I will take 225! They (almighty medical people whoever they be) say I should be in between 120-140. I was 160 in first year of college and I gotta say I looked like death warmed over. I looked unhealthy. 

SO ALL IN ALL, to each their own, as long as they are happy.

Ok so my view point is over. If anything I said made sense great, but if off topic or totally confusing, welcome to my head!


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## CastingPearls

Watching the episode right now.

I identify so much with her sorrow. In many ways, I've been in her place, at my heaviest, I weighed 679 and had no quality of life. To those who can and are happy, good for them, really. 

I was going to have WLS but at the last second I changed my mind. I'd jumped through all the flaming hoops the surgeon required to operate, but before we set the surgical date, I decided not to go through with it because I'd lost a significant amount on my own and would lose more on my own, and with counseling and therapy. Leaving an abusive marriage did wonders as well. 

I've been able to keep all the weight off and know that I'm fortunate in that respect. I greatly respect everyone who takes charge of their lives, their health, their quality of life, and knowing the consequences of all their decisions, and even then, some are unknown. I also understand how people go back and forth. It's called relapse and is common and part of addiction recovery. 

I wish her all the best and a long happy healthy life.


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## Ash

This thread is the most hateful, concern-troll-laden thread in modern memory. Good job all who have contributed. 

There is no magic benchmark weight threshold between "healthy" and "unhealthy" and it's NOT YOUR BUSINESS ANYWAY. 

There is no magic benchmark weight threshold between "happy" and "unhappy" and it's NOT YOUR BUSINESS ANYWAY.

There is no magic correlation that relates weight to happiness. There isn't. But that's also NOT YOUR BUSINESS ANYWAY. 

Intentional gaining is no better or worse for you than non-intentional gaining, but, again, NOT YOUR BUSINESS ANYWAY.

Special shout-out to the poster who compared supersize people to large-breed dogs in the most illogical argument I may have ever read, though. Wow.


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## Scarlette

nevermind. >.<


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## Isa

Ashley said:


> This thread is the most hateful, concern-troll-laden thread in modern memory. Good job all who have contributed.
> 
> There is no magic benchmark weight threshold between "healthy" and "unhealthy" and it's NOT YOUR BUSINESS ANYWAY.
> 
> There is no magic benchmark weight threshold between "happy" and "unhappy" and it's NOT YOUR BUSINESS ANYWAY.
> 
> There is no magic correlation that relates weight to happiness. There isn't. But that's also NOT YOUR BUSINESS ANYWAY.
> 
> Intentional gaining is no better or worse for you than non-intentional gaining, but, again, NOT YOUR BUSINESS ANYWAY.
> 
> Special shout-out to the poster who compared supersize people to large-breed dogs in the most illogical argument I may have ever read, though. Wow.



There is also a fair amount of truth in this thread that a lot of people, especially those who play the "fat is always wonderful" card, will never admit to.


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## Gendo Ikari

Ashley said:


> This thread is the most hateful, concern-troll-laden thread in modern memory. Good job all who have contributed.
> 
> There is no magic benchmark weight threshold between "healthy" and "unhealthy" and it's NOT YOUR BUSINESS ANYWAY.
> 
> There is no magic benchmark weight threshold between "happy" and "unhappy" and it's NOT YOUR BUSINESS ANYWAY.
> 
> There is no magic correlation that relates weight to happiness. There isn't. But that's also NOT YOUR BUSINESS ANYWAY.
> 
> Intentional gaining is no better or worse for you than non-intentional gaining, but, again, NOT YOUR BUSINESS ANYWAY.
> 
> Special shout-out to the poster who compared supersize people to large-breed dogs in the most illogical argument I may have ever read, though. Wow.


If it's not my business, I shouldn't be allowed to have opinions then.

Still love your work Ash, but I am allowed to have my opinions on you, on anyone and everyone in this community, and the community itself.

I have that right, just like you have the right to tell me to fuck off, which I won't ever take personally, and neither should you about my stupid meaningless opinions.


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## Gendo Ikari

Zsalynn is making this all public and in the open. Being so public we have the right to be opinionated about this. There is no "minding our business" when it's on prime time.


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## bigmac

Gendo Ikari said:


> Zsalynn is making this all public and in the open. Being so public we have the right to be opinionated about this. There is no "minding our business" when it's on prime time.



I'm happy she's been very open and public about this. Her experiences as she got older and fatter are very similar to the experiences of several close friends who would not be comfortable sharing their stories to this extent. Finding balance as a fat person is not easy. Zsalynn's experiences may make some people uncomfortable but nevertheless provide a useful glimpse into the life of a very fat person.


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## CastingPearls

I'm happy that she's happy.


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## Marlayna

I enjoyed the show. I thought it would be depressing, but it was uplifting. She has a lot of things going for her, and has a wonderful friend in Bonnie, and a beautiful little daughter. The pictures of her when she was younger, show what a stunning woman she was. I have no doubt that she had many men who were crazy about her.:smitten:
I don't think her husband is a bad man, just unenlightened, and misguided. He needs to grow up if he wants to stay married.
WLS can be dangerous, but it looks like it saved Zsa's life. Good for her, and I wish her continued success. She's a brave woman, and I admire her for that.:bow:


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## vardon_grip

Are these discussions such a threat to one's livelihood, personal comfort and boners that the rest of us fat folk can't talk about concerns for ourselves and others in our community? Worry not, customers and cohorts won't go away.

It is a double standard when some people can enjoy "protected" discussions about paysite models, feeding, stuffing and weight gain and then jump boards to deride discussions about the risks of obesity and other health concerns. 

I understand that nothing here has to be democratic or fair, but it is nice to dream.


----------



## loopytheone

superodalisque said:


> i'm curious, have you ever met those women in person? i used to think the same until i actually met and got to know people IRL. and also what is their age? that has a lot to do with it as well.



Hmm, well I do know a fair number of ladies that are between 400 and 500lbs at my estimation (obviously I don't go around weighing them so not entirely sure). One of them is my age, 23, and I have known her since we were 11 and she has always been a larger lady and I have never once known her have any problems to do with her size, but then again, who is to say what goes on behind closed doors? She always took part in PE and whatnot and was about on a level with me in terms of fitness, not that that says much to be honest! But she has always walked around uni faster than me, I've never seen her physically tired etc. She has lost quite a lot of weight lately though and I think she looks and seems as lovely as ever! I know two older ladies in their 50s who are about 500lbs and less mobile. And on the male side of things I know a couple of gentleman from the dog showing world that I would say are in excess of 500lbs who seem perfectly bright and healthy to me (though admittedly we are not close). One of them is a man in his 30s who is a handler of a larger breed of terrier which involves jogging at a steady pace around a ring, including the best in show ring at one show which is roughly three quarters of the size of a basketball court (we were in a sports hall). He had no problem with this and didn't seem at all red or out of breath when standing his dog at the end, which is impressive because I would have been panting! The second gentleman I would estimate at between 50 and 60 and has been running one of my local shows for as long as I can remember. As the coordinator of the show he spends almost all of the day from 8am to 6pm on his feet and walking around sorting things out and even in his more senior years I have never seen him out of breath or anything, tired at the end of the day, yes, but I think everybody would be! My own fiance is a man who goes between 400 and 450lbs and he takes care of his disabled mother, does all the cooking and chores and shopping and what not as well as walking his aunts dogs a couple of times a week. He is only 30 but still very happy and active (outside of his anxiety issues).

Sorry this somehow turned into such a ramble, I guess I like the sound of my own voice!  But from what I can tell it just depends on the person whether or not they can have a mobile and happy life at larger sizes. For some people the extra weight causes severe problems but for others it seems to have very little impact, that is my take on it at least.


----------



## superodalisque

loopytheone said:


> Hmm, well I do know a fair number of ladies that are between 400 and 500lbs at my estimation (obviously I don't go around weighing them so not entirely sure). One of them is my age, 23, and I have known her since we were 11 and she has always been a larger lady and I have never once known her have any problems to do with her size, but then again, who is to say what goes on behind closed doors? She always took part in PE and whatnot and was about on a level with me in terms of fitness, not that that says much to be honest! But she has always walked around uni faster than me, I've never seen her physically tired etc. She has lost quite a lot of weight lately though and I think she looks and seems as lovely as ever! I know two older ladies in their 50s who are about 500lbs and less mobile. And on the male side of things I know a couple of gentleman from the dog showing world that I would say are in excess of 500lbs who seem perfectly bright and healthy to me (though admittedly we are not close). One of them is a man in his 30s who is a handler of a larger breed of terrier which involves jogging at a steady pace around a ring, including the best in show ring at one show which is roughly three quarters of the size of a basketball court (we were in a sports hall). He had no problem with this and didn't seem at all red or out of breath when standing his dog at the end, which is impressive because I would have been panting! The second gentleman I would estimate at between 50 and 60 and has been running one of my local shows for as long as I can remember. As the coordinator of the show he spends almost all of the day from 8am to 6pm on his feet and walking around sorting things out and even in his more senior years I have never seen him out of breath or anything, tired at the end of the day, yes, but I think everybody would be! My own fiance is a man who goes between 400 and 450lbs and he takes care of his disabled mother, does all the cooking and chores and shopping and what not as well as walking his aunts dogs a couple of times a week. He is only 30 but still very happy and active (outside of his anxiety issues).
> 
> Sorry this somehow turned into such a ramble, I guess I like the sound of my own voice!  But from what I can tell it just depends on the person whether or not they can have a mobile and happy life at larger sizes. For some people the extra weight causes severe problems but for others it seems to have very little impact, that is my take on it at least.



for you i think it would help you a lot to start going to events. i think it would educate you on quite a lot of things. also it's a good idea to have exposure to more people of your own age and older who are larger. i believe it depends a lot on the person too. i was athletic and i have spinal cord damage but i still get around better than a lot of other people i know because i was always athletic. at my heaviest i was 420 or so. i could dance all night and play tennis all day in the heat. i'm now at about 360. i didn't actually diet. i had a thyroid condition that was treated and that made me lighter. but i think that being a bit lighter than i was and having a strong athletic background when the serious symptoms of my spinal chord condition came on really kept me from becoming immobile. my doctor had told me i would not walk, but of course i wasn't hearing that. today i am walking a quite a lot  i know quite a few people with much fewer physical issues who aren't able to get around. and there are a lot of people like me who have other issues in conjunction with their weight that can really knock you down when it comes to living your life.

anectdote: once when i was going to get my hair done and i met a lady who was nearly half my size at my largest, probably about 210 or so. she could hardly breath and was having a hard time walking etc... we had a long open talk. weight was a lot harder for her to carry. her body was fragile. she was not the athletic type and just wasn't made for it. it just wasn't working for her personally. so yeah we can be very different.

i can say that because of the community and making the extra effort on my own that i have probably met several hundred very fat people. i can count probably a good 50 or so people that i'd considered pretty decent friends and confidants who are at least 400lbs. most are maybe 35 and over. a good percentage have been hospitalized before for something that even they feel is fat related --and i'm not talking about diabetes and high blood pressure either.

i'm not trying to be dismissive on the basis of age, but i do think it is a tendency for younger people to rely on exactly the type of experiences you've mentioned. all of us think or have thought that we were immortal. we've all done it. i've seen it before right here in this forum. now, however many just a few years older than you are the ones spending weeks if not months hospitalized and making the decision to be more careful after a rude awakening. i just wish they'd have paid it some serious attention before it got to that point. but there are some things people just have to find out on their own. youth can protect anyone forever from the obvious strain on joints and tendencies toward lymphedema and cellulitis etc...

it's also disturbing the way that people underplay the effect a lot of weight can have on a person's lifestyle. i can't tell you how many people i know who are traumatized by just the thought of taking a plane or going to a theatre. i can't speak for everyone but i like to travel. i love to go abroad. i like going out and being social. i think it can be managed at all sizes but there are a lot of people who do allow their weight to keep them from doing many things out of fear and perceived potential embarrassment. but worse there are people living limited lives who pretend that it doesn't matter that they hardly go anywhere or do anything but fat events.


----------



## Ash

vardon_grip said:


> Are these discussions such a threat to one's livelihood, personal comfort and boners that the rest of us fat folk can't talk about concerns for ourselves and others in our community? Worry not, customers and cohorts won't go away.
> 
> It is a double standard when some people can enjoy "protected" discussions about paysite models, feeding, stuffing and weight gain and then jump boards to deride discussions about the risks of obesity and other health concerns.
> 
> I understand that nothing here has to be democratic or fair, but it is nice to dream.



These discussions have nothing to do with my livelihood, and jumping boards? I've been a member of this community for over twelve years, and I was a contributor here well before I ever modeled.

More importantly, though, I am a supersize woman, and here are a bunch of not-500 and not-600 pound people telling me that I can't possibly be happy or healthy. Because clearly you live in my body and attend my doctors' appointments with me. 

You are absolutely entitled to an opinion, but when you start voicing it, I, as a member of the population you're commenting on, am entitled to tell you to mind your own damn business.


----------



## loopytheone

superodalisque said:


> for you i think it would help you a lot to start going to events. i think it would educate you on quite a lot of things. also it's a good idea to have exposure to more people of your own age and older who are larger. i believe it depends a lot on the person too. i was athletic and i have spinal cord damage but i still get around better than a lot of other people i know because i was always athletic. at my heaviest i was 420 or so. i could dance all night and play tennis all day in the heat. i'm now at about 360. i didn't actually diet. i had a thyroid condition that was treated and that made me lighter. but i think that being a bit lighter than i was and having a strong athletic background when the serious symptoms of my spinal chord condition came on really kept me from becoming immobile. my doctor had told me i would not walk, but of course i wasn't hearing that. today i am walking a quite a lot  i know quite a few people with much fewer physical issues who aren't able to get around. and there are a lot of people like me who have other issues in conjunction with their weight that can really knock you down when it comes to living your life.
> 
> anectdote: once when i was going to get my hair done and i met a lady who was nearly half my size at my largest, probably about 210 or so. she could hardly breath and was having a hard time walking etc... we had a long open talk. weight was a lot harder for her to carry. her body was fragile. she was not the athletic type and just wasn't made for it. it just wasn't working for her personally. so yeah we can be very different.
> 
> i can say that because of the community and making the extra effort on my own that i have probably met several hundred very fat people. i can count probably a good 50 or so people that i'd considered pretty decent friends and confidants who are at least 400lbs. most are maybe 35 and over. a good percentage have been hospitalized before for something that even they feel is fat related --and i'm not talking about diabetes and high blood pressure either.
> 
> i'm not trying to be dismissive on the basis of age, but i do think it is a tendency for younger people to rely on exactly the type of experiences you've mentioned. all of us think or have thought that we were immortal. we've all done it. i've seen it before right here in this forum. now, however many just a few years older than you are the ones spending weeks if not months hospitalized and making the decision to be more careful after a rude awakening. i just wish they'd have paid it some serious attention before it got to that point. but there are some things people just have to find out on their own. youth can protect anyone forever from the obvious strain on joints and tendencies toward lymphedema and cellulitis etc...
> 
> it's also disturbing the way that people underplay the effect a lot of weight can have on a person's lifestyle. i can't tell you how many people i know who are traumatized by just the thought of taking a plane or going to a theatre. i can't speak for everyone but i like to travel. i love to go abroad. i like going out and being social. i think it can be managed at all sizes but there are a lot of people who do allow their weight to keep them from doing many things out of fear and perceived potential embarrassment. but worse there are people living limited lives who pretend that it doesn't matter that they hardly go anywhere or do anything but fat events.



To be honest with you I really would like to go to events but I haven't heard of any near where I live (I live in the midlands in England). Maybe I am looking in the wrong places? I have always wanted to go to that sort of thing but they seem to happen more frequently in the US. Like I said, maybe I am just being blonde and not looking in the right places online? I admit my experience with larger people is limited compared to a lot of people on these boards. I know what you mean about an athletic body type and lifestyle having a big effect on how your body copes with extra weight. I know I am naturally strong and athletic in build and although I am medically classed as obese I actually feel fitter and healthier now compared to being 60 lbs lighter whilst I have seen other people my size that get winded and what not and struggle with their size. I think that a lot of it depends on the individual really. It is awesome that you managed to walk again after that spinal condition and what the doctors say, you must have a strong body and mind to be able to recover in such a way! 

I know that my own experience with, well, I don't mean to be rude but older people is lacking somewhat because I don't have a lot of friends in general and most of them tend to be around my own age. I have noticed that the older people tend to struggle more with weight related conditions but I admit to not being close to many of them so I rely on observation rather than asking them themselves. I am not denying in any way that being bigger can be a strain for a lot of people. 

I don't know where you are getting the idea that I am oblivious to the health effects of higher weights? I think that is what you meant, anyway, correct me if I am wrong? Like I said, I have seen people who are older and large who seem to have a level of fitness and endurance on a level with my own and I have seen people of similar age and build who have considerable mobility issues. I was never trying to imply that being extremely large can't or doesn't have health effects in a lot of people, just that sweeping statements like the one another poster made on this board that stated it wasn't possible to be healthy over a certain size isn't correct. The higher the weight the fewer people that will not have weight related issues but it doesn't mean it is impossible to be 500lbs and healthy, just that very few people can be. That was the point I was trying to make. My mother-in-law-to-be is in her 50s and around 500lbs and can barely walk due to a combination of her weight and arthritis and has had multiple heart failures and blood clots on the lungs, which I believe are likely to do with her size and her inactive lifestyle (not that she has much choice with the mobility issues). Certainly I am aware that being at a high weight can cause serious health problems for some people and sadly there is no way to know if as you age you will develop more issues. All I was trying to say before is that it is possible to be of a higher weight and be healthy, not that everybody is or can be. 

That is true, I know there isn't much talk of the psychological effects being bigger can have on people, which I have always found kind of odd given the nature of this forum. I know this isn't a great comparison but I have an anxiety disorder and for many years of my life I have struggled with body dysmorphia, viewing myself as extremely large even though for most of my life I have been between 130-150lbs. I know I don't know the physical discomfort of being larger in tight spaces but for many years and even now I fear being judged on my size amongst other things and rarely leave my house. I have experienced real fear of not being able to fit into rides and through spaces or between tables and fear of being judged for my size due to my body dysmorphia, so I have a limited understanding of the anxiety some larger people can experience in every day life. It is one of the things that really irks me, that society causes people to feel such anxiety just for the size of their bodies, but that is another topic altogether! I actually think there is a link between being larger and anxiety problems, probably due to part to the fear of embarrassment or physical difficulties fitting. I just wish there was more I could do to try and alter society to be less cruel and judgemental but as I have gotten older I have come to realise that there will always be jerks out there looking to ruin somebodies day no matter what. 

Edit: I guess I should also add that I have absolutely no problem with people trying to lose weight and such, for health or psychological/emotional reasons. But I just don't think that people should feel pressured into losing weight because other people think they are too big to be happy or healthy.


----------



## Wild Zero

Ashley said:


> These discussions have nothing to do with my livelihood, and jumping boards? I've been a member of this community for over twelve years, and I was a contributor here well before I ever modeled.
> 
> More importantly, though, I am a supersize woman, and here are a bunch of not-500 and not-600 pound people telling me that I can't possibly be happy or healthy. Because clearly you live in my body and attend my doctors' appointments with me.
> 
> You are absolutely entitled to an opinion, but when you start voicing it, I, as a member of the population you're commenting on, am entitled to tell you to mind your own damn business.



Ashley, don't you understand? You're fatter than the acceptance threshold AND do modeling, therefore you're invisible to the likes of Supero, Big Mac, Saorise and Vardon Grip. You run up against the same shit from that same cast in nearly every boneheaded fatshaming discussion started by that group. Crazy to see more hate for supersized people on here than Curvage, bizzaro dims.


----------



## Ash

Wild Zero said:


> Ashley, don't you understand? You're fatter than the acceptance threshold AND do modeling, therefore you're invisible to the likes of Supero, Big Mac, Saorise and Vardon Grip. You run up against the same shit from that same cast in nearly every boneheaded fatshaming discussion started by that group. Crazy to see more hate for supersized people on here than Curvage, bizzaro dims.



Oh my god, someone's actually speaking to me and not around me. I don't know how to act right now. 

Maybe if we humanized supersize people by actually ASKING them if they feel happy we could spend a lot less time voicing our "opinions" on how happy or healthy they are. Maybe we can comment on our OWN health and happiness and not speculate on someone else's.

I'll start. I have a cold. It sucks. But otherwise I'm pretty happy!


----------



## Wild Zero

Ashley said:


> Oh my god, someone's actually speaking to me and not around me. I don't know how to act right now.
> 
> Maybe if we humanized supersize people by actually ASKING them if they feel happy we could spend a lot less time voicing our "opinions" on how happy or healthy they are. Maybe we can comment on our OWN health and happiness and not speculate on someone else's.
> 
> I'll start. I have a cold. It sucks. But otherwise I'm pretty happy!



Hu-man-ize? But it's so much easier to gawk from across the parking lot then run home to start a thread on dims about the deathfats.


----------



## ThatFatGirl

CastingPearls said:


> I'm happy that she's happy.



^^^ This.

I say this next bit simply as a viewer watching a TV program - I do not know Zsalynn or her husband, never met them, and yes, I'm judging, but the next weight to lose is that dick of a husband! Did he not want to be on TV? That I can get, maybe it was an act for the cameras? To not be there when your spouse is having surgery, to be late for picking her up, to go through a drive thru, then ask her to hold the food when you've just picked her up from WLS? Jesus.. and all the other little comments and digs. I hope it was a matter of editing that made him come across as a completely uncaring tool.

It's kind of sad the whole aspect of going through such major life changes in front of a TLC/Discovery film team. I watched the previous season re-run before Zsalynn's show with the woman named Melissa as the cameras were rolling when she was grieving over her miscarriage. Watching that scene just felt so wrong and invasive. This WLS doctor in Houston that seems to be the doctor behind all televised WLS stories (I call him Dr. Death because he never smiles - there's just always this stone expression), he has a practice that does not require a TV contract it would seem. Why go the TLC route? I'll never get it. 

Also, I'm still _ever_ so curious about Billy Robbins (the "Half-Ton Teen"!!). His crying, "I want to see my cat!" is something I say whenever we are out-of-town and I am missing my kitties. I really hope he is healthy and happy and has established some healthy boundaries with his mother.


----------



## superodalisque

Isa said:


> There is also a fair amount of truth in this thread that a lot of people, especially those who play the "fat is always wonderful" card, will never admit to.



i think times have changed a lot. there are always going to be people who tow the old line that has been out there since the 70s and have totlly lost touch with what regular fat folk are doing or want because socially they are only living the fat community life and hiding away from other people out of fear. but i think now a lot of people in the SA community are ready to reach out to absolutely every fat person and even to thin people. hence the gaining popularity (no pun intended  ) to the term SA. in order to do that we have to be totally honest and lay it all out on the table even when we do disagree. the suppression is killing the community. it's excluding the majority of fat people who don't have a porn career or a fetish mentality. it's leading to an atmosphere where there isn't even an opportunity to bring our family and friends comfortably in order for them to learn fat politics and how to treat us because our fatness is nearly ALWAYS supposed to be about somebody else's crotch. 

the truth will always come out in the end anyway and time will always tell. i agree with you . i think it is better for everyone to have their own real opinions whatever they are. people are sick of half truths and facades. i have to admit though that it's pretty illogical to me to think that that it is nobody's business when the fantasy of it is out here for everybody to see but the responsibility and the reality is somehow a secret? i don't think it's any different from BDSM or anything else. they talk about all of the possibilities and provide safeguards for each other to make sure people can fully enjoy and understand everything before they get involved in long term. 

the disneyfication of fat is the main reason the media is attracted to and can exploit the community. the pretense makes us all look out of control illogical and infantile. the denial and enforced group think is one of the things that can lead an inexperienced person who gets caught up down the road to feeling they need WLS. it wouldn't be much of a story if Zsa hadn't been romanced to her size by the mentality some have in the community. if she were still big fat and able to care for herself and her child she would be one less story to document. 

you know, one thing i've realized is that when it comes to yourself judgement is not such a bad thing. you can look around. analyze for yourself and make your own choices. but to do that you need to explore as many sides as possible. the more experience in life i have the less i trust people who are always waving their finger and telling me to suspend judgement. it usually means i'm not supposed to examine or question what they are doing or what they are encouraging me to do. it usually means whatever they're saying can't stand up to scrutiny. when it comes to me and my friends i'm going to look at anything that affects our welfare really hard and judge it harder. we're just that important.


----------



## superodalisque

CastingPearls said:


> I'm happy that she's happy.



me too. that's ALL it's about. we all need to get our happy on instead of waiting for people to approve. no matter what people think about WLS if they truly care about her they will approve just because it's what she wants. but there are always going to be people who want to make it all about them instead of her.


----------



## Tracyarts

" it's also disturbing the way that people underplay the effect a lot of weight can have on a person's lifestyle. "

I've experienced this on a personal level. It's not even so much fear of embarassment, or fear of ridicule. It's dealing with the hassle factor of trying to navigate the world in a fat body with mobility limitations. 

When I was larger, and wasn't able to go much of anywhere without a wheelchair, it was SO fucking stressful and mentally exhausting trying to manage a successful outing that more often than not I ended up staying home. First of all, not every place I wanted to go was accessible, or realistically accessible (cobblestones, uneven pavement, and bare ground were out of the question). And then of those places that were accessible, there was the issue of an extra-wide bariatric wheelchair not fitting through doors, down aisles, etc... Also, there was the issue of transporting the wheelchair and getting it in and out of the vehicle. My husband could manage it, as could my dad when he was alive. But for a day out with a girl-friend or my mother in law? Wasn't happening. 

But what about a motorized chair/scooter and vehicle lift you might ask? Well, you don't just get one handed to you, and the chair/lift combined can cost as much as a used car. We earned too much to qualify for medical assistance benefits, and we didn't earn enough to be able to self-pay. The only medical insurance I could get at the time would not cover it. So I had to buy a used manual wheelchair and make the best of it. 

I was able to get out and enjoy life via local outings and daytrips fairly regularly. And I was able to make driving distance overnight travel work for me a couple of times. But the limitations far outweighed being able to reasonably accomdate myself. 

Even now that I am smaller and more mobile, I still have limitations and my ability to get out and do what I want is still hampered. Now, instead of the main worry being whether or not my wheelchair will fit somewhere, I have to worry about whether there is a place I can sit and rest when my back hurts too much to keep going. It's tedious. I not only have to do research before going somewhere to make sure there are plenty of benches or other places to sit, but I have to budget for all the time wasted sitting and waiting for my back spasms to stop. 

Pain makes it all the harder. The back pain is caused by being on foot, and so far I have not found any way to make it better aside from losing weight. The smaller I get, the more time I can spend on foot before the pain starts. I've tried various medications, including some hardcore meds through pain management, accupressure, accupuncture, massage, chiropractic therapy, physical therapy stretches, building up core muscles, ultrasound therapy, yoga, infrared heat therapy, hydrotherapy, support garments of various types, special anti-inflammatory supplements and diets, along with a handful of more desperate out-there new age and fringe therapies. Many of them make the pain better for a little bit, but it always comes back and always limits me. I have spent tens of thousands of dollars and countless hours with various specialists and therapists looking for an answer. But weight loss is and has been the only real and effective method of lessening the pain and improving my mobility. 

I'd love to travel more extensively, but realistically I'll have to lose quite a bit more weight before the hassle no longer outweighs the enjoyment. I won't lie, if I had the money, I'd very seriously look into rolling the WLS dice for a chance at getting smaller faster, and being able to do more of the things I want to do sooner. Time is passing, my time left on this Earth is getting shorter, and some days I really feel the desperation. 

Tracy


----------



## Still Waters

> Christina's husband looks like every stereotypical a-hole FA I've ever known online or in person. You can almost see the disdain on his face in the picture.

That is really uncalled-for. Judging him because he's a skinny guy with a beard and maybe what his face looks like doesn't have much to do with what he's thinking or feeling.


----------



## superodalisque

loopytheone said:


> To be honest with you I really would like to go to events but I haven't heard of any near where I live (I live in the midlands in England). Maybe I am looking in the wrong places? I have always wanted to go to that sort of thing but they seem to happen more frequently in the US. Like I said, maybe I am just being blonde and not looking in the right places online? I admit my experience with larger people is limited compared to a lot of people on these boards. I know what you mean about an athletic body type and lifestyle having a big effect on how your body copes with extra weight. I know I am naturally strong and athletic in build and although I am medically classed as obese I actually feel fitter and healthier now compared to being 60 lbs lighter whilst I have seen other people my size that get winded and what not and struggle with their size. I think that a lot of it depends on the individual really. It is awesome that you managed to walk again after that spinal condition and what the doctors say, you must have a strong body and mind to be able to recover in such a way!
> 
> I know that my own experience with, well, I don't mean to be rude but older people is lacking somewhat because I don't have a lot of friends in general and most of them tend to be around my own age. I have noticed that the older people tend to struggle more with weight related conditions but I admit to not being close to many of them so I rely on observation rather than asking them themselves. I am not denying in any way that being bigger can be a strain for a lot of people.
> 
> I don't know where you are getting the idea that I am oblivious to the health effects of higher weights? I think that is what you meant, anyway, correct me if I am wrong? Like I said, I have seen people who are older and large who seem to have a level of fitness and endurance on a level with my own and I have seen people of similar age and build who have considerable mobility issues. I was never trying to imply that being extremely large can't or doesn't have health effects in a lot of people, just that sweeping statements like the one another poster made on this board that stated it wasn't possible to be healthy over a certain size isn't correct. The higher the weight the fewer people that will not have weight related issues but it doesn't mean it is impossible to be 500lbs and healthy, just that very few people can be. That was the point I was trying to make. My mother-in-law-to-be is in her 50s and around 500lbs and can barely walk due to a combination of her weight and arthritis and has had multiple heart failures and blood clots on the lungs, which I believe are likely to do with her size and her inactive lifestyle (not that she has much choice with the mobility issues). Certainly I am aware that being at a high weight can cause serious health problems for some people and sadly there is no way to know if as you age you will develop more issues. All I was trying to say before is that it is possible to be of a higher weight and be healthy, not that everybody is or can be.
> 
> That is true, I know there isn't much talk of the psychological effects being bigger can have on people, which I have always found kind of odd given the nature of this forum. I know this isn't a great comparison but I have an anxiety disorder and for many years of my life I have struggled with body dysmorphia, viewing myself as extremely large even though for most of my life I have been between 130-150lbs. I know I don't know the physical discomfort of being larger in tight spaces but for many years and even now I fear being judged on my size amongst other things and rarely leave my house. I have experienced real fear of not being able to fit into rides and through spaces or between tables and fear of being judged for my size due to my body dysmorphia, so I have a limited understanding of the anxiety some larger people can experience in every day life. It is one of the things that really irks me, that society causes people to feel such anxiety just for the size of their bodies, but that is another topic altogether! I actually think there is a link between being larger and anxiety problems, probably due to part to the fear of embarrassment or physical difficulties fitting. I just wish there was more I could do to try and alter society to be less cruel and judgemental but as I have gotten older I have come to realise that there will always be jerks out there looking to ruin somebodies day no matter what.
> 
> Edit: I guess I should also add that I have absolutely no problem with people trying to lose weight and such, for health or psychological/emotional reasons. But I just don't think that people should feel pressured into losing weight because other people think they are too big to be happy or healthy.



i am not saying you are oblivious. it is just that there is no way to really know until you've had more of a chance to see it firsthand. heck i was 420 and 40 yrs old myself and there was a whole lot i did not know until i met a lot of great people in the community. i thank them everyday for what they taught me. there are a lot of awesome people who've been around and don't post anywhere who'll tell you the real truth _with_ documentation about all of the people who are around making claims and trying to influence people. 

thank you for the props on my being able to walk but there are soo many people like me or people who have a lot more going on physically than i do and they are still doing it too. i just want you to know that it is NOT the cakewalk people want to make it out to be--_especially_ online.


----------



## Ned Sonntag

superodalisque said:


> the disneyfication of fat is the main reason the media is attracted to and can exploit the community...


 Okay we've had our little kerfluffles:blush: but THAT nails the whole thing brilliantly.:bow:


----------



## superodalisque

Still Waters said:


> > Christina's husband looks like every stereotypical a-hole FA I've ever known online or in person. You can almost see the disdain on his face in the picture.
> 
> That is really uncalled-for. Judging him because he's a skinny guy with a beard and maybe what his face looks like doesn't have much to do with what he's thinking or feeling.



you know i used to feel like that -- you know, second guessing initial impressions. but then i usually go back and realize that my first impression was right.


----------



## Surlysomething

Not worth it.

Delete


----------



## superodalisque

i'll leave it alone too


----------



## Marlayna

Tracyarts said:


> " it's also disturbing the way that people underplay the effect a lot of weight can have on a person's lifestyle. "
> 
> I've experienced this on a personal level. It's not even so much fear of embarassment, or fear of ridicule. It's dealing with the hassle factor of trying to navigate the world in a fat body with mobility limitations.
> 
> When I was larger, and wasn't able to go much of anywhere without a wheelchair, it was SO fucking stressful and mentally exhausting trying to manage a successful outing that more often than not I ended up staying home. First of all, not every place I wanted to go was accessible, or realistically accessible (cobblestones, uneven pavement, and bare ground were out of the question). And then of those places that were accessible, there was the issue of an extra-wide bariatric wheelchair not fitting through doors, down aisles, etc... Also, there was the issue of transporting the wheelchair and getting it in and out of the vehicle. My husband could manage it, as could my dad when he was alive. But for a day out with a girl-friend or my mother in law? Wasn't happening.
> 
> But what about a motorized chair/scooter and vehicle lift you might ask? Well, you don't just get one handed to you, and the chair/lift combined can cost as much as a used car. We earned too much to qualify for medical assistance benefits, and we didn't earn enough to be able to self-pay. The only medical insurance I could get at the time would not cover it. So I had to buy a used manual wheelchair and make the best of it.
> 
> I was able to get out and enjoy life via local outings and daytrips fairly regularly. And I was able to make driving distance overnight travel work for me a couple of times. But the limitations far outweighed being able to reasonably accomdate myself.
> 
> Even now that I am smaller and more mobile, I still have limitations and my ability to get out and do what I want is still hampered. Now, instead of the main worry being whether or not my wheelchair will fit somewhere, I have to worry about whether there is a place I can sit and rest when my back hurts too much to keep going. It's tedious. I not only have to do research before going somewhere to make sure there are plenty of benches or other places to sit, but I have to budget for all the time wasted sitting and waiting for my back spasms to stop.
> 
> Pain makes it all the harder. The back pain is caused by being on foot, and so far I have not found any way to make it better aside from losing weight. The smaller I get, the more time I can spend on foot before the pain starts. I've tried various medications, including some hardcore meds through pain management, accupressure, accupuncture, massage, chiropractic therapy, physical therapy stretches, building up core muscles, ultrasound therapy, yoga, infrared heat therapy, hydrotherapy, support garments of various types, special anti-inflammatory supplements and diets, along with a handful of more desperate out-there new age and fringe therapies. Many of them make the pain better for a little bit, but it always comes back and always limits me. I have spent tens of thousands of dollars and countless hours with various specialists and therapists looking for an answer. But weight loss is and has been the only real and effective method of lessening the pain and improving my mobility.
> 
> I'd love to travel more extensively, but realistically I'll have to lose quite a bit more weight before the hassle no longer outweighs the enjoyment. I won't lie, if I had the money, I'd very seriously look into rolling the WLS dice for a chance at getting smaller faster, and being able to do more of the things I want to do sooner. Time is passing, my time left on this Earth is getting shorter, and some days I really feel the desperation.
> 
> Tracy


Thank you for sharing your personal experiences. I'm glad your life is improving and I hope it continues to do so. I think your honesty will be a cautionary tale for some... hopefully.


----------



## vardon_grip

Ashley said:


> These discussions have nothing to do with my livelihood, and jumping boards? I've been a member of this community for over twelve years, and I was a contributor here well before I ever modeled.
> 
> More importantly, though, I am a supersize woman, and here are a bunch of not-500 and not-600 pound people telling me that I can't possibly be happy or healthy. Because clearly you live in my body and attend my doctors' appointments with me.
> 
> You are absolutely entitled to an opinion, but when you start voicing it, I, as a member of the population you're commenting on, am entitled to tell you to mind your own damn business.



This discussion isn't about you. This discussion is about health, obesity, a TV program and a paysite model named Zsalynn. Zsalynn is 600 lbs. and says she is unhappy with her size. This is about how some of us relate to the subject. If you don't or can't relate to the subject, then this discussion is not for you.

"Protected" boards are the double standard not jumping boards. You can have any opinion you want and express it freely. (as long as it adheres to the posting rules of Dimensions, of course) You can say how you vehemently disagree with my opinion, but telling me to "mind my own business" is saying that I am not allowed to voice my opinion. That is another example of a double standard.


----------



## The Orange Mage

And Zsalynn is someone who has ping-ponged between apparent-happy-fatty and miserable-woe-is-me fatty, even after having WLS done once and after that claimed she gained again because she preferred being fatter, and went right back to the happy-fatty paysite shit again.

I want her to be happy *but I don't want her shitting on "the community" over shit she had full control over. What's true for her isn't true for everyone else.*


----------



## superodalisque

The Orange Mage said:


> And Zsalynn is someone who has ping-ponged between apparent-happy-fatty and miserable-woe-is-me fatty, even after having WLS done once and after that claimed she gained again because she preferred being fatter, and went right back to the happy-fatty paysite shit again.
> 
> I want her to be happy *but I don't want her shitting on "the community" over shit she had full control over. What's true for her isn't true for everyone else.*



so, what exactly is it that is she doing to you personally ? a lot of the community really isn't bothered by her in the least because she has absolutely nothing to do with who we are as individuals. so all over the community is going a bit far don't you think?

thank you so much for the illustration. this is a prime example of what a lot of us have been talking about. people acting like it's all good when they are encouraging people to get to that weight but suddenly if it's too much for somebody it's just all their fault alone. they suddenly are supposed to be in control after also being told that dieting does not work and even that their WLS will ultimately fail or has done so already and will again. which is it? no wonder people here are so confused -- too many contradictions.


----------



## Gendo Ikari

The Orange Mage said:


> And Zsalynn is someone who has ping-ponged between apparent-happy-fatty and miserable-woe-is-me fatty, even after having WLS done once and after that claimed she gained again because she preferred being fatter, and went right back to the happy-fatty paysite shit again.
> 
> I want her to be happy *but I don't want her shitting on "the community" over shit she had full control over. What's true for her isn't true for everyone else.*


This community can be shady and certainly has issues that need to be addressed, the people here that go LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU NONE YOUR BUSINESS are more harmful than any feeder will ever be.


----------



## loveembig

loopytheone said:


> I have to disagree with you saying this isn't possible. You can brand everybody who thinks differently to you with one umbrella of 'denial' if you like but that doesn't make it true or everybody who disagrees with you wrong. Are there people who can be healthy at that size? Yes. Simple statistics dictates that, the human population follows a bell curve of weights and will follow a bell curve of 'highest healthiest weight' as well. There are therefore going to be increasingly less people who are healthy as you get to the higher weights but there is no such thing as a maximum healthy weight and saying that there is only serves to alienate the larger members of our community. Secondly, as somebody who happens to be an expert on mammal physiology and therefore pretty well versed in human physiology, I see absolutely no reason why at 500lbs or any other arbitrary weight every single human body would be unable to cope. Every person is different and there will be people who are healthy at 600lbs. Just because you don't know any doesn't mean they don't exist, it just means they aren't online in the same places you are or don't feel like posting. Thirdly, I know more than one lady on this forum who weighs more than 500lbs who has a successful career, is perfectly mobile and lives a happy and profitable life that frankly I am more than a little envious of! So making sweeping statements about how nobody can be healthy at higher weights and that everybody who thinks differently is in denial is just unhelpful and untrue. Is every super sized person healthy? No. Can excess weight cause health problems? Yes. But there is no magic number for the whole population to be under or they are 'unhealthy', that is exactly the same concept that the BMI charts use to tell me I can't be healthy if I am above 136lbs.



I’m not saying that there is some magic maximum number that dictates health. I’m not saying that ALL supersized people are unhealthy or unhappy because I know that there are many out there who are or claim to be. Each individual is different and has his or her own unique health situation. But when you are 500, 600, 700 or whatever extreme poundage you happen to be and you have convinced yourself that the non-injury related pain or joint damage you are experiencing in your knees or in your back or your shortness of breath or your unregulated blood glucose levels are unrelated to your extreme weight, it is called “denial”. 

Every human body has its limits and although those limits are different from person to person they are limits all the same. In most cases of extreme weight these limits manifest themselves in similar ways across the board. Denying that these limits exist or placing the reason for their existence on something other than the obvious is to deny the reality of how the human body works and reacts to the stress of too much weight. Building a philosophy and concept of heath that flies in the face of conventional modern medical science is foolishness and questioning the basis for it's rationale is IMHO only natural.


----------



## Gendo Ikari

Extreme obesity is a health risk. Keyword, risk. You could very well be fine and dandy at 500 pounds, but you are still playing with fire. At any point you can and will be burned. I've recently been blessed with a BBW girlfriend, but if she suddenly developed...diabetes or high blood pressure I would want her to lose weight.

Zsalynn spent a long time playing with fire, enjoying the allure of it, but she finally got burnt.


----------



## LillyBBBW

superodalisque said:


> so, what exactly is it that is she doing to you personally ? a lot of the community really isn't bothered by her in the least because she has absolutely nothing to do with who we are as individuals. so all over the community is going a bit far don't you think?
> 
> thank you so much for the illustration. this is a prime example of what a lot of us have been talking about. people acting like it's all good when they are encouraging people to get to that weight but suddenly if it's too much for somebody it's just all their fault alone. they suddenly are supposed to be in control after also being told that dieting does not work and even that their WLS will ultimately fail or has done so already and will again. which is it? no wonder people here are so confused -- too many contradictions.



Yes but that door swings both ways. There are people who come on here basically saying 'yay weight loss for me' who will argue that I should not feel like their enthusiasm for what makes them happy is the equivalent of pushing me into losing weight if I don't want to, triggering though this type of talk can be for some of us. But somehow that same ideal is not so easily applied to those who are perfectly content being supersized and wish to exist in a place where this can be said and affirmed among likeminded individuals without being told they're pushing something on someone else. I'm happy that weight loss is there for those who need it but for me it was a big mistake. From what I gather from Zsa's story there is no smoking gun for either side. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't - choose your casket. It seems clear there is no heroism for favoring one thing over the other beyond which is most socially acceptable.


----------



## Wild Zero

PolkaDotty said:


> ...sez the Cool Non-Judging-Unfatshamey Guy?



Hey, I'm not the one who started comparing supersize people to dogs. Blame it on the board culture.


----------



## superodalisque

LillyBBBW said:


> Yes but that door swings both ways. There are people who come on here basically saying 'yay weight loss for me' who will argue that I should not feel like their enthusiasm for what makes them happy is not the equivalent of pushing me into losing weight if I don't want to, triggering though this type of talk can be for some of us. But somehow that same ideal is not so easily applied to those who are perfectly content being supersized and wish to exist in a place where this can be said and affirmed among likeminded individuals without being told they're pushing something on someone else. I'm happy that weight loss is there for those who need it but for me it was a big mistake. From what I gather from Zsa's story there is no smoking gun for either side. It's damned if you do, damned if you don't - choose your casket. It seems clear there is no heroism for favoring one thing over the other beyond which is most socially acceptable.



i'm going to be blunt. i may be wrong but i personally think the triggering talk online is a most often a cop out so that people have a reason to get their way. WLS is going to be discussed on this thread as evident from the opening post if not the title. so, why click on it if not to control others thoughts or feelings? no reading no triggering. it's simple. 

outside of that there are a lot of people who don't feel that everything everyone else feels is a reflection on them personally. some of us know it's not about us. we already know we don't have to chart our lives by the opinions of others but by what we personally feel comfortable with. so if somebody else wants to lose weight it won't kill us or end our fat world. 

i have a friend who is a psychologist. i asked her about all of this triggering talk i kept seeing online. you know what she said? "they shouldn't go there". she also said it was also the responsibility of the person who knew they had the trigger to manage it if they were aware of what it was. and often people do use it to guilt people into having their way. sometimes we just can't have everything our way because the world is not mapped out for every disorder we might have. there is a weight board there is a feeder board that is policed for that. but even they discuss diet. so why isn't that a trigger? as far as i was taught triggers were not that focused. maybe discussing weight at all is a bad idea? but best of all why not go to the feeder forum or weight board and start a thread and have it go exactly by the rules there since that might be less problematic?

regarding the rest, the damned if you do or don't thing is only true for a defeatist.


----------



## Blackjack

superodalisque said:


> i have a friend who is a psychologist. i asked her about all of this triggering talk i kept seeing online. you know what she said? "they shouldn't go there". she also said it was also the responsibility of the person who knew they had the trigger to manage it if they were aware of what it was. and often people do use it to guilt people into having their way. sometimes we just can't have everything our way because the world is not mapped out for every disorder we might have. there is a weight board there is a feeder board that is policed for that. but even they discuss diet. so why isn't that a trigger? as far as i was taught triggers were not that focused. maybe discussing weight at all is a bad idea? but best of all why not go to the feeder forum or weight board and start a thread and have it go exactly by the rules there since that might be less problematic?



If your psychologist friend understands triggers so poorly I really hope that she doesn't have anyone she's treating because she's pretty clearly not willing to help people who suffer from issues where they are triggered by stuff- as would be evidenced by the fact that she thinks that they are a method for people to manipulate others into "getting their way".

I mean I suppose that's true if "getting one's way" means not having a fucking panic attack or psychological episode because of triggering behavior.


----------



## Tracyarts

" There are people who come on here basically saying 'yay weight loss for me' who will argue that I should not feel like their enthusiasm for what makes them happy is the equivalent of pushing me into losing weight if I don't want to, triggering though this type of talk can be for some of us. "

But isn't it also true that all the "yay weight gain for me" and talk of facestuffing is equally triggering for people who suffer from food addictions and binge eating disorders? The pressure goes both ways, the question is which fat people who might be triggered are on the ins or on the outs.

Tracy


----------



## superodalisque

Blackjack said:


> If your psychologist friend understands triggers so poorly I really hope that she doesn't have anyone she's treating because she's pretty clearly not willing to help people who suffer from issues where they are triggered by stuff- as would be evidenced by the fact that she thinks that they are a method for people to manipulate others into "getting their way".
> 
> I mean I suppose that's true if "getting one's way" means not having a fucking panic attack or psychological episode because of triggering behavior.



i'd expect that she knows a whole lot as a practicing psychologist. she didn't say that people with triggers were manipulative. she said that people online often use the term to be manipulative because a lot of them don't even have one since if they are diagnosed and are actively being treated they're often told not to play around online regarding subjects they already know they are sensitive to. so if they have a trigger about dieting they definitely should not be talking about weight online at all because even non dieting talk could trigger them.


----------



## LillyBBBW

superodalisque said:


> i'm going to be blunt. i may be wrong but i personally think the triggering talk online is a most often a cop out so that people have a reason to get their way. WLS is going to be discussed on this thread as evident from the opening post if not the title. so, why click on it if not to control others thoughts or feelings? no reading no triggering. it's simple.
> 
> outside of that there are a lot of people who don't feel that everything everyone else feels is a reflection on them personally. some of us know it's not about us. we already know we don't have to chart our lives by the opinions of others but by what we personally feel comfortable with. so if somebody else wants to lose weight it won't kill us or end our fat world.
> 
> i have a friend who is a psychologist. i asked her about all of this triggering talk i kept seeing online. you know what she said? "they shouldn't go there". she also said it was also the responsibility of the person who knew they had the trigger to manage it if they were aware of what it was. and often people do use it to guilt people into having their way. sometimes we just can't have everything our way because the world is not mapped out for every disorder we might have. there is a weight board there is a feeder board that is policed for that. but even they discuss diet. so why isn't that a trigger? as far as i was taught triggers were not that focused. maybe discussing weight at all is a bad idea? but best of all why not go to the feeder forum or weight board and start a thread and have it go exactly by the rules there since that might be less problematic?
> 
> regarding the rest, the damned if you do or don't thing is only true for a defeatist.



I don't know what you are talking about. I can't form a response to this because it's not the conversation I was having. I was referring to the bolded that you stated below.



superodalisque said:


> so, what exactly is it that is she doing to you personally ? a lot of the community really isn't bothered by her in the least because she has absolutely nothing to do with who we are as individuals. so all over the community is going a bit far don't you think?
> 
> thank you so much for the illustration. this is a prime example of what a lot of us have been talking about. *people acting like it's all good when they are encouraging people to get to that weight but suddenly if it's too much for somebody it's just all their fault alone. they suddenly are supposed to be in control after also being told that dieting does not work and even that their WLS will ultimately fail or has done so already and will again. which is it? no wonder people here are so confused* -- too many contradictions.



I was encouraged enthusiastically to engage in weight loss. I was given affirming praise for my progress but it was all my fault when my joints erroded and the fluid built up in my spinal column and cranium. Are the people who were in my weight loss group who gave me advice on how they broke through the plateu phase just as guilty as the people who hee haw about weight gain?


----------



## superodalisque

Tracyarts said:


> " There are people who come on here basically saying 'yay weight loss for me' who will argue that I should not feel like their enthusiasm for what makes them happy is the equivalent of pushing me into losing weight if I don't want to, triggering though this type of talk can be for some of us. "
> 
> But isn't it also true that all the "yay weight gain for me" and talk of facestuffing is equally triggering for people who suffer from food addictions and binge eating disorders? The pressure goes both ways, the question is which fat people who might be triggered are on the ins or on the outs.
> 
> Tracy



indeed, but somehow that's okay and people should just avoid that too right? 
we've all been here a long time. we know the drill.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Tracyarts said:


> " There are people who come on here basically saying 'yay weight loss for me' who will argue that I should not feel like their enthusiasm for what makes them happy is the equivalent of pushing me into losing weight if I don't want to, triggering though this type of talk can be for some of us. "
> 
> But isn't it also true that all the "yay weight gain for me" and talk of facestuffing is equally triggering for people who suffer from food addictions and binge eating disorders? The pressure goes both ways, the question is which fat people who might be triggered are on the ins or on the outs.
> 
> Tracy



Yes, it can be. On that I agree and it was part of the point I was making. Don't get the impression that I'm trying to say anything bad about people who choose or believe in weight loss. Ater getting sick it took me a while to not be angry at the world for making me feel like it should be weight loss at all costs. I had a terrible disorder and for the rest of my life wieight loss talk will be triggering. I have to draw the line at hate and I'm wondering if the hate towards all the weight gain enthusiasm can use a dose of the same kind of view?


----------



## superodalisque

LillyBBBW said:


> I don't know what you are talking about. I can't form a response to this because it's not the conversation I was having. I was referring to the bolded that you stated below.
> 
> 
> 
> I was encouraged enthusiastically to engage in weight loss. I was given affirming praise for my progress but it was all my fault when my joints erroded and the fluid built up in my spinal column and cranium. Are the people who were in my weight loss group who gave me advice on how they broke through the plateu phase just as guilty as the people who hee haw about weight gain?



yep they probably were. but you were allowed to choose that. and i hope someone was there to tell you the downside so you could make your own choice with as much info as possible. and hopefully they weren't shut up. but you'r right that people who are intense about gaining or dieting both have a problem. they have dogma that does not include a middle ground. and i think a middle ground is what people are exploring here.

i think we are pretty clear that the middle isn't gaining until you're immobile or dieting until you are rail thin. Zsalynn was firmly on the immobile end. should WLS be the first choice for people. ideally, of course not. the problem with your model is the assumption that the reality must absolutely be one extreme or another. a lot of us are saying it doesn't have to be that way. 

and honestly, if dieting is a trigger for you or someone you know you or they might really want to seriously reconsider being on a site that is really all about weight.


----------



## loopytheone

loveembig said:


> Im not saying that there is some magic maximum number that dictates health. Im not saying that ALL supersized people are unhealthy or unhappy because I know that there are many out there who are or claim to be. Each individual is different and has his or her own unique health situation. But when you are 500, 600, 700 or whatever extreme poundage you happen to be and you have convinced yourself that the non-injury related pain or joint damage you are experiencing in your knees or in your back or your shortness of breath or your unregulated blood glucose levels are unrelated to your extreme weight, it is called denial.
> 
> Every human body has its limits and although those limits are different from person to person they are limits all the same. In most cases of extreme weight these limits manifest themselves in similar ways across the board. Denying that these limits exist or placing the reason for their existence on something other than the obvious is to deny the reality of how the human body works and reacts to the stress of too much weight. Building a philosophy and concept of heath that flies in the face of conventional modern medical science is foolishness and questioning the basis for it's rationale is IMHO only natural.



Equally I am not saying that every big person is healthy or that being at a higher weight can't cause health problems. Of course it can. My issue was that you appeared to make a blanket statement saying that nobody after a certain weight could be healthy or happy. If that was not what you meant to say then I apologise for taking it that way. 

Also, I am not sure if all your comments about denial are aimed at me or the board in general as they started in the same paragraph where you were addressing me. To say that I am in denial about the effects of high weights is laughable, trust me I a zoologist, I know all about the potential effects of obesity in both humans, animals and GM animal models. But just because I can accept that not every super size person will have these problems doesn't mean I am in denial about their existence, severity or potential impact on people.


----------



## Ash

vardon_grip said:


> This discussion isn't about you. This discussion is about health, obesity, a TV program and a paysite model named Zsalynn. Zsalynn is 600 lbs. and says she is unhappy with her size. This is about how some of us relate to the subject. If you don't or can't relate to the subject, then this discussion is not for you.
> 
> "Protected" boards are the double standard not jumping boards. You can have any opinion you want and express it freely. (as long as it adheres to the posting rules of Dimensions, of course) You can say how you vehemently disagree with my opinion, but telling me to "mind my own business" is saying that I am not allowed to voice my opinion. That is another example of a double standard.



You're the one who suggested I was trying to derail discussion because of its effects on my livelihood. You're the one who accused me of jumping boards. Maybe your paysite-models-should-be-seen-but-not-heard attitude is escaping the attention of others, but it hasn't escaped mine. Your derision is well documented. How dare I demand to be treated like a supersize person with a valid experience regardless of my job, right?

And my original response in this thread was to the broad, sweeping generalizations that, above a certain weight, people can neither be happy nor healthy. The concern for Zsa's specific case ended a long, long time ago.


----------



## superodalisque

LillyBBBW said:


> Yes, it can be. On that I agree and it was part of the point I was making. Don't get the impression that I'm trying to say anything bad about people who choose or believe in weight loss. Ater getting sick it took me a while to not be angry at the world for making me feel like it should be weight loss at all costs. I had a terrible disorder and for the rest of my life wieight loss talk will be triggering. I have to draw the line at hate and I'm wondering if the hate towards all the weight gain enthusiasm can use a dose of the same kind of view?



i don't think it's hating to recognize an extreme when you see one-- in either direction


----------



## Dromond

I've tried a number of times to put my thoughts into a coherent post, but it's not happening. The attempts always end up being ranty, and that's not a way to win hearts and minds.


----------



## LillyBBBW

superodalisque said:


> yep they probably were. but you were allowed to choose that. and i hope someone was there to tell you the downside so you could make your own choice with as much info as possible. and hopefully they weren't shut up. but you'r right that people who are intense about gaining or dieting both have a problem. they have dogma that does not include a middle ground. and i think a middle ground is what people are exploring here.
> 
> i think we are pretty clear that the middle isn't gaining until you're immobile or dieting until you are rail thin. Zsalynn was firmly on the immobile end. should WLS be the first choice for people. ideally, of course not. the problem with your model is the assumption that the reality must absolutely be one extreme or another. a lot of us are saying it doesn't have to be that way.
> 
> and honestly, if dieting is a trigger for you or someone you know you or they might really want to seriously reconsider being on a site that is really all about weight.



Well I could stay home, not read the newspaper, quit my job, stop istening to Beyonce, avoid the internet, the subway and my email too but that is not a realistic option. Why are you being nasty Supero? Is it something I said?


----------



## superodalisque

LillyBBBW said:


> Well I could stay home, not read the newspaper, quit my job, stop istening to Beyonce, avoid the internet, the subway and my email too but that is not a realistic option. Why are you being nasty Supero? Is it something I said?



i empathize with your condition, but, should all of the rest of us stop reading and writing newspapers, stop singing and listening, stop talking to each other on the subway, stop absolutely anyone but a few who understood from using the internet stop exchanging any ideas whatsoever? it's not nasty to tell the truth. i'm sure you were already told that you could not expect the world to stop right? or am i mistaken? again, lets interject some realism into this conversation. actually i do know quite a few people who aren't on forums on the net at all for exactly that reason. it might be something you should think about since it's causing a lot of problems.


----------



## LillyBBBW

superodalisque said:


> i empathize with your condition, but, should all of the rest of us stop reading and writing newspapers, stop singing and listening, stop talking to each other on the subway, stop absolutely anyone but a few who understood from using the internet stop exchanging any ideas whatsoever? it's not nasty to tell the truth. i'm sure you were already told that you could not expect the world to stop right? or am i mistaken? again, lets interject some realism into this conversation.



You are engaging me in an argument that I'm not having and continually suggesting that I should go away and not come here. I just don't get why you are projecting all these feels on to my post.


----------



## superodalisque

LillyBBBW said:


> You are engaging me in an argument that I'm not having and continually suggesting that I should go away and not come here. I just don't get why you are projecting all these feels on to my post.



sorry i was trying to protect you from feeling stressed out. i was just making a suggestion. is it okay for you to be here? if it's not good for you wouldn't it be a bad idea? or you could block the posts of people you do not want to read. that would also help wouldn't it? what do you want us to do? would it make you feel better if we closed down the thread for you?


----------



## Marlayna

Back to Zsalynn, are some saying that this is the second WLS she had? Since this was a bypass, was the other one something else? I thought the show was very well done, and I'm curious about what went before. I don't recall her mentioning any prior surgeries in the intro she gave, but I may've missed it.


----------



## J_Underscore

I missed the whole thing here in the UK, anyone know of a link to watch it?

Also, I found an interesting article on it http://www.examiner.com/article/my-600-lb-life-takes-viewers-on-zsalynn-s-story-on-tlc


----------



## superodalisque

J_Underscore said:


> I missed the whole thing here in the UK, anyone know of a link to watch it?
> 
> Also, I found an interesting article on it http://www.examiner.com/article/my-600-lb-life-takes-viewers-on-zsalynn-s-story-on-tlc



all i've seen online are the clips so far : http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/my-600-lb-life/videos/post-surgery.htm


----------



## CastingPearls

Marlayna said:


> Back to Zsalynn, are some saying that this is the second WLS she had? Since this was a bypass, was the other one something else? I thought the show was very well done, and I'm curious about what went before. I don't recall her mentioning any prior surgeries in the intro she gave, but I may've missed it.


No, I think you're right. There was no mention of a first one. 

I know someone shopping for a third one. She cheated with both with shakes and soda and gained it all back and more. The yo-yo-ing has nearly destroyed her health, her metabolism certainly. She worked for my doctor and he even told her she needed therapy not another bypass but she was hellbent. I never heard from her again. She was very unhappy.


----------



## superodalisque

CastingPearls said:


> No, I think you're right. There was no mention of a first one.
> 
> I know someone shopping for a third one. She cheated with both with shakes and soda and gained it all back and more. The yo-yo-ing has nearly destroyed her health, her metabolism certainly. She worked for my doctor and he even told her she needed therapy not another bypass but she was hellbent. I never heard from her again. She was very unhappy.



exactly everyone is always looking for a medical solution but the real solution is somewhere else.


----------



## tonynyc

superodalisque said:


> exactly everyone is always looking for a medical solution but the real solution is somewhere else.



well that depends if the medical solutions are presented with "Disneyesque" expectations....

_Minor surgery is surgery someone else is having.

-- J. Carl Cook _


----------



## Marlayna

superodalisque said:


> exactly everyone is always looking for a medical solution but the real solution is somewhere else.


Like Zsalynn, my downfall is my sweet tooth, and if there really were such a thing, I'd have a dentist remove it.


----------



## superodalisque

Marlayna said:


> Like Zsalynn, my downfall is my sweet tooth, and if there really were such a thing, I'd have a dentist remove it.



girl i have a bag of peanut M&Ms right now


----------



## bigmac

Ashley said:


> ...
> 
> More importantly, though, I am a supersize woman, and here are a bunch of not-500 and not-600 pound people telling me that I can't possibly be happy or healthy. Because clearly you live in my body and attend my doctors' appointments with me.
> 
> ...




Ashley, I'm glad you're healthy and happy. And yes I'm not a 500 or 600 pound person. However, I am married to a woman who used to weigh over 500 pounds. As such I do have quite a bit of experience observing and dealing with the trials and tribulations of super-sized people. Indeed my wife's life parallels Zsalynn's in many respects. Our daughter grew up without a mom she could ride bikes with, without a mom who could go to the beach with her even though the beach was only a few miles away, without a mom who could ride roller coasters and other amusement park rides with her. Like you my wife was fortunate to be metabolically healthy -- her blood pressure, cholesterol, and blood lipids were always perfect. However this doesn't mean she wasn't in ever increasing physical pain or that she didn't deeply regret her physical limitations. Like Zsalynn she decided to do something about her predicament -- although in a not so public way.

Two months ago my wife skipped work for our daughter's nineteenth birthday and spent the day riding roller coasters and other rides with her at Magic Mountain. My wife was also physically able to work 22 long days in a row this December (as both a social worker and the director of a children's charity). The route my wife took hasn't been easy -- I'm sure the route Zsalynn's on won't be easy either.

Ashley, my question to you is what makes the experiences of these women any less valid than your experiences? 



Wild Zero said:


> Ashley, don't you understand? You're fatter than the acceptance threshold AND do modeling, therefore you're invisible to the likes of Supero, Big Mac, Saorise and Vardon Grip. You run up against the same shit from that same cast in nearly every* boneheaded fatshaming *discussion started by that group. Crazy to see more *hate for supersized people *on here than Curvage, bizzaro dims.




_"Boneheaded fat shaming"?_ No! Just a little dose of reality from people who have some valuable life experience.

_"Hate of supersized people"?_ Again -- and emphatically -- No! I'm someone who loves a formerly super-sized person.


----------



## RabbitScorpion

Ned Sonntag said:


> http://web.poptower.com/zsalynn-whitworth-my-600-lb-life.htm A heads-up for the group... discuss amongst yourselves... interesting that Zsa:wubu: names NAAFA in the promo paragraphs and not DIMz...



No surprise there. Though she is on the Dims members list, she shows a total of *zero* posts.

It shows a website address that went unrenewed.

It would seem she has chosen to put her SA/FA life behind her.

With a husband like that for an example, who could blame her?


----------



## The Orange Mage

bigmac said:


> Ashley, I'm glad you're healthy and happy. And yes I'm not a 500 or 600 pound person. However, I am married to a woman who used to weigh over 500 pounds. As such I do have quite a bit of experience observing and dealing with the trials and tribulations of super-sized people. Indeed my wife's life parallels Zsalynn's in many respects. Our daughter grew up without a mom she could ride bikes with, without a mom who could go to the beach with her even though the beach was only a few miles away, without a mom who could ride roller coasters and other amusement park rides with her. Like you my wife was fortunate to be metabolically healthy -- her blood pressure, cholesterol, and blood lipids were always perfect. However this doesn't mean she wasn't in ever increasing physical pain or that she didn't deeply regret her physical limitations. Like Zsalynn she decided to do something about her predicament -- although in a not so public way.
> 
> Two months ago my wife skipped work for our daughter's nineteenth birthday and spent the day riding roller coasters and other rides with her at Magic Mountain. My wife was also physically able to work 22 long days in a row this December (as both a social worker and the director of a children's charity). The route my wife took hasn't been easy -- I'm sure the route Zsalynn's on won't be easy either.



So if you people can't legitimately treat as a person because she's a paysite model and feedist, you have to reframe her as a baby-maker? Jesus H. Christ. I can't believe you whipped out the "think of the (potential) children" trope on us here. (Plus from what little I know about Ash, she probably isn't planning on having kids, so what the christ?)

Don't pass judgement on those who are superfat and happy because they LIKE it, pass it on the superfat who DON'T and pretend they DO for monetary gain, only to turn around and talk shit about the people she had formerly surrounded herself with.


----------



## LillyBBBW

bigmac said:


> Ashley, I'm glad you're healthy and happy. And yes I'm not a 500 or 600 pound person. However, I am married to a woman who used to weigh over 500 pounds. As such I do have quite a bit of experience observing and dealing with the trials and tribulations of super-sized people. Indeed my wife's life parallels Zsalynn's in many respects. Our daughter grew up without a mom she could ride bikes with, without a mom who could go to the beach with her even though the beach was only a few miles away, without a mom who could ride roller coasters and other amusement park rides with her. Like you my wife was fortunate to be metabolically healthy -- her blood pressure, cholesterol, and blood lipids were always perfect. However this doesn't mean she wasn't in ever increasing physical pain or that she didn't deeply regret her physical limitations. Like Zsalynn she decided to do something about her predicament -- although in a not so public way.
> 
> Two months ago my wife skipped work for our daughter's nineteenth birthday and spent the day riding roller coasters and other rides with her at Magic Mountain. My wife was also physically able to work 22 long days in a row this December (as both a social worker and the director of a children's charity). The route my wife took hasn't been easy -- I'm sure the route Zsalynn's on won't be easy either.
> 
> *Ashley, my question to you is what makes the experiences of these women any less valid than your experiences?*
> 
> 
> ...........snipped............



BicMac I'm not speaking for Ashley but it seems in her post she was asking you the same question. Many are saying, "People over X amount of weight can't be healthy or happy," and there seem to be minions of people nodding their heads to agree. She testified that this is not always true and talked about herself. Never at any time did she say that unhappy supersized people are lying. It seems she's merely hoping to count for something in this topic rather than be an inconvenient speed bump in the rush to voice opinions.


----------



## Jah

bigmac said:


> Ashley, I'm glad you're healthy and happy. And yes I'm not a 500 or 600 pound person. However, I am married to a woman who used to weigh over 500 pounds. As such I do have quite a bit of experience observing and dealing with the trials and tribulations of super-sized people. Indeed my wife's life parallels Zsalynn's in many respects. Our daughter grew up without a mom she could ride bikes with, without a mom who could go to the beach with her even though the beach was only a few miles away, without a mom who could ride roller coasters and other amusement park rides with her. Like you my wife was fortunate to be metabolically healthy -- her blood pressure, cholesterol, and blood lipids were always perfect. However this doesn't mean she wasn't in ever increasing physical pain or that she didn't deeply regret her physical limitations. Like Zsalynn she decided to do something about her predicament -- although in a not so public way.
> 
> Two months ago my wife skipped work for our daughter's nineteenth birthday and spent the day riding roller coasters and other rides with her at Magic Mountain. My wife was also physically able to work 22 long days in a row this December (as both a social worker and the director of a children's charity). The route my wife took hasn't been easy -- I'm sure the route Zsalynn's on won't be easy either.


My thin mother didn't do those things with me and I don't know that many that do actually do all those things with their children.


----------



## bigmac

The Orange Mage said:


> So if you people can't legitimately treat as a person because she's a paysite model and feedist, you have to reframe her as a baby-maker? Jesus H. Christ. I can't believe you whipped out the "think of the (potential) children" trope on us here. (Plus from what little I know about Ash, she probably isn't planning on having kids, so what the christ?)
> 
> Don't pass judgement on those who are superfat and happy because they LIKE it, pass it on the superfat who DON'T and pretend they DO for monetary gain, only to turn around and talk shit about the people she had formerly surrounded herself with.



I'm not passing judgement. I believe that people are entitled to live their lives as they choose. However, that doesn't mean that we can't learn from the choices made by others. Its a fact that many many people come to regret choices they made when they're younger. People regret not finishing school, they regret starting to smoke, they regret getting in trouble, ... the list is endless. My point on this tread is that many people who intentionally gain weight (or just say fuck it I'm going to eat whatever I want whenever I want) come to regret their choices. Getting old sucks under the best of circumstances -- getting old as super-size person is infinitely harder -- that's just a fact.


Regarding the motherhood thing -- its just an example of how being very very fat can limit a person's ability to full participate in life. Having children is a very important life event for many people (its fine if its not your cup of tea). The fact remains that many super-size people have things they'd like to do -- life events they'd like to participate in -- but they can't fully participate because of their size. Again that's just an inconvenient fact.


----------



## bigmac

Jah said:


> My thin mother didn't do those things with me and I don't know that many that do actually do all those things with their children.



The difference is that my wife really really wanted to do those things with our older daughter. She deeply regrets not being able to.

We try to take our youngest kids to the park or beach as often as possible. We're always surrounded by other families with young kids. So there are families out there that do _these things_.


----------



## bigmac

LillyBBBW said:


> BicMac I'm not speaking for Ashley but it seems in her post she was asking you the same question. Many are saying, "People over X amount of weight can't be healthy or happy," and there seem to be minions of people nodding their heads to agree. She testified that this is not always true and talked about herself. Never at any time did she say that unhappy supersized people are lying. It seems she's merely hoping to count for something in this topic rather than be an inconvenient speed bump in the rush to voice opinions.




I don't doubt that Ashley is currently healthy and happy. However, the fact remains she's gained a very significant amount of weight and if she continues I cannot see her good fortune lasting indefinitely.

Zsalynn's a few years older than Ashley -- Zsalynn doesn't appear to have been prepared for the inevitable end of the party. My point on this thread is that there are lessons to be learned from the experiences of people like Zsalynn.


----------



## Weeze

bigmac said:


> I don't doubt that Ashley is currently healthy and happy. However, the fact remains she's gained a very significant amount of weight and if she continues I cannot see her good fortune lasting indefinitely.
> 
> Zsalynn's a few years older than Ashley -- Zsalynn doesn't appear to have been prepared for the inevitable end of the party. My point on this thread is that there are lessons to be learned from the experiences of people like Zsalynn.



First off, you don't know anything about Ashley as a person and you know *nothing* about whether her "good fortune" will last indefinitely... unless you're her medical doctor. Are you? Because if so, please tell me to back off. If not, don't talk about something you only have ONE experience with. Your wife's situation was HER situation, not that of others. Zsa has a TON of problems... 
This episode is her 3rd weight loss surgery. You can't compare a woman whose weight has gone up and down so drastically so many times and is miserable and in an abusive marriage to a woman who's happy with who she is and comfortable in her skin.


----------



## bigmac

Weeze said:


> First off, you don't know anything about Ashley as a person and you know *nothing* about whether her "good fortune" will last indefinitely... unless you're her medical doctor. Are you? Because if so, please tell me to back off. If not, don't talk about something you only have ONE experience with. Your wife's situation was HER situation, not that of others. Zsa has a TON of problems...
> This episode is her 3rd weight loss surgery. You can't compare a woman whose weight has gone up and down so drastically so many times and is miserable and in an abusive marriage to a woman who's happy with who she is and comfortable in her skin.




Ashley may well be a very exceptional case and be able to transition into midlife as a healthy happy super-size person. However, the odds are against her (and I don't need to know her personally to assert this fact).

I've known Zsalynn since 1995. I've also known many other super-size people. It may surprise you but Zsalynn has always been one of the healthiest and most active members of this group.

Also, second and third WLSs -- revisions they're called -- are very common.


----------



## Surlysomething

I agree with this wholeheartedly.
It's one thing to be able to handle these things when you're a fairly healthy, viable person, but there's a line that gets crossed at some point and there will be terrible consequences. Hindsight is always 20/20, right?






bigmac said:


> My point on this thread is that there are lessons to be learned from the experiences of people like Zsalynn.


----------



## Blackjack

bigmac said:


> What exactly are the points I'm missing? I don't doubt Ashley is presently healthy and happy. I'm not suggesting any sanctions against people who choose to live in ways I may think imprudent. We're just having a discussion. I'm not seeing how its my problem if that drives you over the edge.



Easy for you to say it's "just a discussion" when you're not the one being shit on and having your experiences completely ignored but are rather the one who refuses to listen to people pointing out your bullshit and instead insulting them.


----------



## LillyBBBW

bigmac said:


> I don't doubt that Ashley is currently healthy and happy. However, the fact remains she's gained a very significant amount of weight and if she continues I cannot see her good fortune lasting indefinitely.
> 
> Zsalynn's a few years older than Ashley -- Zsalynn doesn't appear to have been prepared for the inevitable end of the party. My point on this thread is that there are lessons to be learned from the experiences of people like Zsalynn.



What lesson would that be BigMac? Being fat is awful? Weight loss is wonderful? Weight loss works? Weight loss surgery will fix everything? Life is better for you when weight loss and NAAFA are your goals in life? You are presenting an alternative point of view which I appreciate but you're not exactly selling this as being THE sensible answer by pointing at Zsalynn's story. For full disclosure, I have not watched this show. I'm not really feeling like I want to. It's soundling like it's a gaping black shit hole of how much suckage there is in life for people who can't be healthy fat and can't lose weight. We all may as well just lay down here and wait for the truck to take us out.


----------



## thatgirl08

So at what point, do we as a community decide we need to warn someone they're getting too fat? At what point do we decide that they're incapable of making their own decisions, and step in? At what point is someone unacceptably fat for fat acceptance? And what exactly do we as a community do? Sponsor their WLS surgery? Sign them up for Jenny Craig? Scold them via PM? That doesn't sound like acceptance to me.


----------



## Blackjack

thatgirl08 said:


> So at what point, do we as a community decide we need to warn someone they're getting too fat? At what point do we decide that they're incapable of making their own decisions, and step in? At what point is someone unacceptably fat for fat acceptance? And what exactly do we as a community do? Sponsor their WLS surgery? Sign them up for Jenny Craig? Scold them via PM? That doesn't sound like acceptance to me.



Publicly paint them with a broad brush via vague statements and then respond to the (well-deserved) backlash with comments like "oh well I wasn't talking about *you* specifically" and "but there's no way you know that you'll keep being lucky".


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## thatgirl08

I mean yeah thank god someone on here compared supersize women to dogs. As a fat twenty something, I definitely needed some fat shame to put me in my place and stop me from gaining that extra 100 pounds.


----------



## thatgirl08

Oh and thank god everyone showed me the error of my ways re:feederism. I mean you know, I can't actually get rid of a fetish but now I feel so guilty about being sexually into what I'm into that I promise not to get over the acceptable weight of 399.


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## Gendo Ikari

I'm sure Ash has an exit strategy when she wants to retire from modeling or for the day, should it ever come, that she just gets too big for her liking.

She's not stupid.


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## WickedWaggy

First off, this thread has wholly and completely derailed....

Secondly I am amazed at reading some of the posts in thread. I found dims in 1996 or 1997 I seem to remember and it is hard to believe where these forums have come since then. I thought this was a size acceptance community. That is size, any size. I'm not sure where where some people get off tell telling others exactly what size size that should be. Regardless of if some is 200 lbs going for 700 lbs or vice versa OR even if (God forbid) they are happy where they are I thought the goal of this community was for everyone to be a part of it. To have somewhere to belong to if they enjoyed a fat lifestyle. Society tells us that fat is bad and for some people's brains to make them like fatness better than the alternative is OK. It is good to share that common thread somewhere.

Obviously obesity carries it's own set of risks. It can also carry rewards for the individual based on their own thoughts and desires. 

Ultimately we have to live with the decisions we make. If you want to be 700 lbs , then do it. You only live once and why spend your whole life regretting g the fact that you never tried. It does affect other people than just yourself without doubt but you have to weight those things before you do anything. If If you are miserable being fat, then change it by whatever means you can - it is no longer ACCEPTANCE at that point.

Moreover, what gives someone else the right to tell someone else how to live their life? Regardless of what you think, know, or your own experiences - it is not your own life to live. Accept then, support them, or fuck off. 

This has become a cold place. I am glad I found the old dimensions, because I would not feel good about finding this place for for the first time.


----------



## J_Underscore

Gendo Ikari said:


> I'm sure Ash has an exit strategy when she wants to retire from modeling or for the day, should it ever come, that she just gets too big for her liking.
> 
> She's not stupid.



Well just look at the people who aimed to be the world's largest, Donna Simpson & Susanne Eman reached their limits or something changed in them as the years went on and now they're both looking to lose weight & be healthier.


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## Gendo Ikari

J_Underscore said:


> Well just look at the people who aimed to be the world's largest, Donna Simpson & Susanne Eman reached their limits or something changed in them as the years went on and now they're both looking to lose weight & be healthier.


Eman has flipped flopped and is back to "gaining". Plus, I don't think Ash has ever, from day one claimed to wanting to be the world's heaviest woman.


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## Gendo Ikari

"Healthy at any size" is a misconception. Zsalynn was certainly not healthy at her size. She could barely move, she consumed way too much crap and her life was compromised. Healthy at any size needs to be codified and be made specific, so people don't take "healthy at any size" as an excuse to do no exercise or to eat garbage. Because you do that and you won't be healthy. You wouldn't be healthy skinny doing that and you wouldn't be healthy big doing that. Immobility or even near immobility is not healthy at all.

This forum's culture needs to change, our little society has been following along dogma and traditions set in place since the 70's and there needs to be a radical change in our traditions and our perceptions.

Conrad, this is ultimately your forum, your baby, you have the responsibility to help us and influence us. Do not be set in your ways, change and innovation needs to happen in any society.


----------



## Ash

Gendo Ikari said:


> "Healthy at any size" is a misconception. Zsalynn was certainly not healthy at her size. She could barely move, she consumed way too much crap and her life was compromised. Healthy at any size needs to be codified and be made specific, so people don't take "healthy at any size" as an excuse to do no exercise or to eat garbage. Because you do that and you won't be healthy. You wouldn't be healthy skinny doing that and you wouldn't be healthy big doing that. Immobility or even near immobility is not healthy at all.



Here's the crux of my problem with this whole discussion. Since when are we all so entitled and self-important that we think our "opinions" on someone else's health or happiness need to be voiced? Oh right, since forever. Because that's what people have been doing to fat people since always, and that's why we have a size acceptance movement to begin with. So now we're saying that, yes, fat people should be accepted, but once they reach a certain weight (or level of health/ability?) they should be publicly shamed to WARN THEM. It's all in their best interest, right? 

But here's the thing. You don't know these people, and you don't care about them. You care about your own fear of becoming unhealthy, and you care about being congratulated for making the "right" decisions regarding your health. So congratulations. Can you go back to wringing your hands about something else now? 

In the meantime I'm going to continue doing what I want--and let's be clear that none of you who are concern-trolling here even know what it is that I want. What you should know, though, is that *everyone* deserves acceptance in this community, regardless of size, health, or ability.


----------



## Marlayna

Ashley said:


> Here's the crux of my problem with this whole discussion. Since when are we all so entitled and self-important that we think our "opinions" on someone else's health or happiness need to be voiced? Oh right, since forever. Because that's what people have been doing to fat people since always, and that's why we have a size acceptance movement to begin with. So now we're saying that, yes, fat people should be accepted, but once they reach a certain weight (or level of health/ability?) they should be publicly shamed to WARN THEM. It's all in their best interest, right?
> 
> But here's the thing. You don't know these people, and you don't care about them. You care about your own fear of becoming unhealthy, and you care about being congratulated for making the "right" decisions regarding your health. So congratulations. Can you go back to wringing your hands about something else now?
> 
> In the meantime I'm going to continue doing what I want--and let's be clear that none of you who are concern-trolling here even know what it is that I want. What you should know, though, is that *everyone* deserves acceptance in this community, regardless of size, health, or ability.


 This is about a specific woman on a specific show. She was miserable being close to 600 pounds, and was addicted to sugar. She risked her life to try a surgical solution for the sake of her child. She couldn't make love to her husband anymore, and it was a struggle for her to get up to go to the bathroom.
These were *her* choices that we were discussing, until others took umbrage with the discussion and chose to make it about themselves. It isn't.

No one is telling you to lose weight. You look great and you have lots of admirers. You probably have a wonderful life and wouldn't want to lose a single pound. That's great. I don't think anyone has a problem with it. I believe your anger is mis-directed.


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## Gendo Ikari

Ashley said:


> Here's the crux of my problem with this whole discussion. Since when are we all so entitled and self-important that we think our "opinions" on someone else's health or happiness need to be voiced? Oh right, since forever. Because that's what people have been doing to fat people since always, and that's why we have a size acceptance movement to begin with. So now we're saying that, yes, fat people should be accepted, but once they reach a certain weight (or level of health/ability?) they should be publicly shamed to WARN THEM. It's all in their best interest, right?
> 
> But here's the thing. You don't know these people, and you don't care about them. You care about your own fear of becoming unhealthy, and you care about being congratulated for making the "right" decisions regarding your health. So congratulations. Can you go back to wringing your hands about something else now?
> 
> In the meantime I'm going to continue doing what I want--and let's be clear that none of you who are concern-trolling here even know what it is that I want. What you should know, though, is that *everyone* deserves acceptance in this community, regardless of size, health, or ability.


All the more power to you Ash. I'm not saying anything you don't already know.


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## Surlysomething

People are allowed to voice there opinions on anything they'd like to.

You put yourself out there, you're going to have varying opinions on ANYTHING you say. That's how it works.


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## shy guy

My gawd what a cluster fuck this has turned into, honestly what is the deal with some of you people? All the personal attacks, the name calling, over all immaturity of 99.9% of you, is this still dimensions or a half ass soap opera? I don't know but this is very sad.


----------



## wrestlingguy

I find it incredible that someone would deliberately try to derail any thread, REGARDLESS of how the discussion goes, simply because one or two people don't like the tone of the discussion.

This is not one of those right or wrong situations, duh.

We're in an in between state in size acceptance, where there is still a group of people still mired in what the medical community has told us about fat people over the years, and another side of the community entrenched in the fact that no one has died simply by being fat, but from complications from it.

When I first got to Dims in 1996 (mostly as a lurker), there weren't fragmented boards like there have been since the turn of the century. Somehow the result of that is the various groups begin to "dig in" when someone challenges there way of thinking. That was done all of the time in the old Dims, but it was done with a sense of mutual respect. I still maintain that you can thank the segregation of the boards here, but it's also the internet, and the fact that few of us know each other in real life, and many of the ones who do simply don't like each other.

I'm reluctant to post anything more in this thread, and will probably just throw my thoughts into a new blog, but my God, have we forgotten how to talk things out?

There's lots of "victims" in the thread (both sides). Please stop the name calling, we're all gonna die someday, and lots of this won't matter when we do. And mods, please don't shut the whole thread down, and see the potential for this to return to positive discussion, rather than the mess of the last 6-7 pages.


----------



## vardon_grip

Blackjack said:


> And honestly at this point fuck respectful discussion because if telling someone that they're too fat to be respected isn't a bannable offense on here then it's not even worth trying to do anything but say "fuck it".



I agree with you that would be offensive.
Can you quote the person who said, "too fat to be respected'? (or something like that)
I didn't see that post in this thread, but I may have missed it.

I feel that "not being respected" and "I am not getting respect in the manner that I want" are obviously different.
I also feel that "too fat to be respected" is not the idea that most of the posters in this thread were putting forth


----------



## Dromond

wrestlingguy said:


> I find it incredible that someone would deliberately try to derail any thread, REGARDLESS of how the discussion goes, simply because one or two people don't like the tone of the discussion.
> 
> This is not one of those right or wrong situations, duh.
> 
> We're in an in between state in size acceptance, where there is still a group of people still mired in what the medical community has told us about fat people over the years, and another side of the community entrenched in the fact that no one has died simply by being fat, but from complications from it.
> 
> When I first got to Dims in 1996 (mostly as a lurker), there weren't fragmented boards like there have been since the turn of the century. Somehow the result of that is the various groups begin to "dig in" when someone challenges there way of thinking. That was done all of the time in the old Dims, but it was done with a sense of mutual respect. I still maintain that you can thank the segregation of the boards here, but it's also the internet, and the fact that few of us know each other in real life, and many of the ones who do simply don't like each other.
> 
> I'm reluctant to post anything more in this thread, and will probably just throw my thoughts into a new blog, but my God, have we forgotten how to talk things out?
> 
> There's lots of "victims" in the thread (both sides). Please stop the name calling, we're all gonna die someday, and lots of this won't matter when we do. And mods, please don't shut the whole thread down, and see the potential for this to return to positive discussion, rather than the mess of the last 6-7 pages.



"Cant we all just get along" didn't work for Rodney King, and it won't work here. Voices of reason are not welcome.


----------



## wrestlingguy

Dromond said:


> "Cant we all just get along" didn't work for Rodney King, and it won't work here. Voices of reason are not welcome.



Except I didn't say we had to all get along. I asked that we treat each other with respect.

Lots of people in this thread that I've vehemently disagreed with in the past, both on the boards, and in real life. We think differently. Yet, if I expect them to at least understand my thoughts without calling me a motherfucking lunatic, I should be prepared to do the same.


----------



## Iannathedriveress

I just watch this episode earlier today. Her husband sounds like a complete asshole, not wanting to support her.


----------



## vardon_grip

wrestlingguy said:


> Except I didn't say we had to all get along. I asked that we treat each other with respect.
> 
> Lots of people in this thread that I've vehemently disagreed with in the past, both on the boards, and in real life. We think differently. Yet, *if I expect them to at least understand my thoughts without calling me a motherfucking lunatic, I should be prepared to do the same.*



very well put


----------



## LillyBBBW

The tone of these discussions bug me because it really does reek of the bigotry and criticism this community receives from the public at large. Let's not even talk about the speculative nature of how weight loss is the supposed problem solver for all of our ills. Lets talk about the proven fact that weight loss has a 95% failure rate. That means that while bigmac is beaming at his wife and child on a roller coaster there are 19 Zsalynns out there who will never get what she's got not because she's lazy, ignorant and not trying but because it simply isn't obtainable for them. To hear of her struggle to find herself is heartbreaking to me. No one would even prescribe a medicine or surgery with a 95% failure rate but there are people who are so eager to stand around shaking their heads at people like Zsalynn with all of these odious boogeyman warnings. She's not your cautionary tale people, she's a human being. Smart or dumb, her body does what it does and it really isn't cool to be casting judgment upon her or others like her when you have no clue what you're even talking about. No one is denying you the right to do what you need to do but there simply isn't any sound reason to expect what works or doesn't work for you to apply to everyone else and then goad them with your success or failure. There has been a deficit of compassion in this thread from the get-go so the degeneration of the whole topic comes as no surprise to me at all.


----------



## Saoirse

the 95% failure rate doesnt make sense and I would like to know where people keep coming up with this number.


----------



## Marlayna

ClutchingIA19 said:


> I just watch this episode earlier today. Her husband sounds like a complete asshole, not wanting to support her.


Yes, he behaved like a total jerk, but hopefully Zsalynn will feel that "every knock is a boost", and she'll get stronger and fitter for herself and her child, in spite of his asinine attitude.


----------



## shy guy

Saoirse said:


> the 95% failure rate doesnt make sense and I would like to know where people keep coming up with this number.



I would too, I'm not buying the math here.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Yes I know it sounds crazy but no scientifically controlled test were able to produce any weight loss that resulted in anything long term. People lose weight at first but the body adapts. Look it up, it's true. And therin lies the problem. There are people who simply don't believe it and keep banging on that same old bone about weight loss. The facts are inconvenient.


----------



## superodalisque

LillyBBBW said:


> Yes I know it sounds crazy but no scientifically controlled test were able to produce any weight loss that resulted in anything long term. People lose weight at first but the body adapts. Look it up, it's true. And therin lies the problem. There are people who simply don't believe it and keep banging on that same old bone about weight loss. The facts are inconvenient.



does it really matter since it isn't anybody's decision to make except that of the person having it done? and honestly i don't trust anything i see here because i already see how a lot of people's posts have been reinterpreted in ways that have absolutely nothing to do with the original. earlier in this thread it was pointed out that that number came out i a study from 1959. i think people considering it have sense enough to look at some fresher info and talk to people who've actually had it done. and, they definitely have sense enough not to trust the anecdotal stuff people throw out on these forums.


----------



## superodalisque

shy guy said:


> I would too, I'm not buying the math here.



i can't buy that math just through the people i know who've actually had it done.


----------



## wrestlingguy

shy guy said:


> I would too, I'm not buying the math here.



The only "article" (blog, really) that I've seen that addresses that number is from Ragen Chastain, HAES advocate, author and lecturer, and her website, Dances With Fat. I'll link you to her blog here, since she deserves the reads based on the quality of her works, but here's the actual blog below:



> *Thanks to reader Marie for the questions that spawned this blog. She asked:
> 
> Im curious about the 95% figure. As far as Ive read, that is based on some outdated and likely not valid research. I hope you understand Im not attacking you, but its a statistic I see that you use often here and one that many of the nutritionists that I work with dispute. And I know I shouldnt rely on anecdotal evidence, but I know several people personally (including myself) who have lost weight and kept it off. Now, the people who have kept it off have done it sensibly with healthy food and exercise. Others Ive known who relied on more gimmicky approaches have regained. Heres an article Ive read.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/1999/05/25/health/95-regain-lost-weight-or-do-they.html
> 
> Thanks for the thoughtful, non-attacking question Maria. Here is my answer.
> 
> First, my take on the article:
> 
> They say The true failure rate could be much better, or much worse, he said. The fact is that we just dont know.
> 
> They say that the number is based on a 1959 study conducted by Dr. Albert Stunkard and Mavis McLaren-Hume in which 95 of 100 participants failed. But then admit Since the 1959 study, though, the statistic has been reinforced by most other clinical studies, which also showed people with discouraging results. Studies like this one which is a 55 year study. They conclude that Dieting has its own benefitsPeople who try to lose weight tend to eat better and exercise more, leading to increased fitness and lower blood pressure. That, to me, is practically an endorsement of the Health at Every Size Paradigm since you can have the better eating and exercising without a side of failure and body shame.
> 
> At any rate, this statistic has a long history and was acknowledged at both the New Zealand Obesity Society conference in 2009 and again at the inaugural International Obesity Summit in 2010.
> 
> They are not questioning the 95% statistic based on any scientific study, but upon the anecdotal evidence of the National Weight Control Registry. This is a voluntary registry of dieters who have lost at least 30 pounds and maintained that for a year. The article claims that Judging by their accounts, it is entirely possible for people without the resources to hire personal trainers and chefs to accomplish permanent weight loss. And thats where it goes off the rails for me.
> 
> According to their website:
> 
> There are currently more than five thousand members of the National Weight Control Registry, all of whom have lost significant amounts of weight and kept it off. These members lost the weight in a variety of ways and for a variety of reasons. Some have lost 30 pounds, some 130 pounds. Some have kept the weight off for one year, some for decades. What they all have in common, though, is a commitment to successful weight loss maintenance.
> 
> Ok, first of all, more than 5,000&#8243;. Lets say that they have 6,000 members, just to give them the benefit of the doubt. My research showed that between 45 million and 80 million Americans go on a diet every year. Ill round down to 40 million just to be sure.. The registry started in 1994 and has 6,000 success stories. Using our extremely low estimate, since 1994, there were 660,000,000 attempts at dieting (including people who tried more than once). So if we are going to use the registry to prove weight loss success, it shows a failure rate of 99.991%. Thats not necessarily accurate of course because the registry relies on self-reporting. Its possible that there are 32,994,000 people who successfully lost weight but didnt report it to the registry. If thats the case then the 95% failure rate holds true. If there are more than 32,994,000 who successfully lost weight but didnt report it then the failure rate would be less. Or maybe when they said more than 5,000&#8243; they actually meant 33 million.
> 
> As it stands, based on estimates that favor them: 660,000,000 diet attempts. 6,000 successes and 659,994,000 failures. What Im trying to say here is that the registry is no help in proving the efficacy of dieting because it utterly lacks statistical significance and relies completely on self-reporting - in addition to under-reporting, some of those success stories could have regained their weight but not reported it. Also, the numbers are singularly unimpressive. Were I these two doctors, who make their living selling weight loss, I would not be waving these numbers around.
> 
> What these scientists are trying to say is that by studying the .009% of dieters who have succeeded they can find the secret to dieting successfully. Thats like studying Powerball winners to see the best way to become a hundred millionaire. On a side note, studies show that more than 50% of overweight people and more than 30% of obese people are metabolically healthy, but very few people seem to be studying us to see how they can make other overweight and obese people healthy. Why do we value .009% over 50% or 30%?
> 
> Maybe its because the Registry is run by two doctors who make their living selling weight loss and is predominantly funded by pharmaceutical and diet companies whose bottom lines depend upon people believing that they can lose weight. Conflict of interest? You decide.
> 
> Moving on. In order to talk about success or failure we first have to define them. Weight Watchers once claimed success when a study showed that participants lost around about 10 pounds in six months and kept off half of that for two years. Karren Miller-Kovach, chief scientific officer of Weight Watchers International at the time said: Its nice to see this validation of what weve been doing.
> 
> Validation? Seriously? Lady, they lost 5 pounds in two years. Im reasonably certain that I could lose 5 pounds in two years just by exfoliating semi-regularly. If Weight Watchers (or any weight loss company) was so successful then you probably wouldnt be required to put Results not typical on every one of your ads, you know what Im saying?
> 
> At any rate, to me success would have to be based on the diet industrys own definition: Getting people into the normal bmi range. But that raises the question  if 95% of people who are 5 pounds over the normal range are successful, does it follow scientifically that 95% of people who are 200 pounds over would be successful by the same means? This is a trickier question than it sounds.
> 
> For me the bottom line is that even if a study did prove that some form of weight loss had success based on the diet industrys definition, that would only be the start of the discussion. What are the risks? What happens to the people who dont succeed? Are these people actually healthier, or are they just smaller? And for me the big question is Whats the point. I researched and chose Health at Every Size for a Reason. I already love my body and Im healthy and Health at Every Size has given me everything Ive ever wanted so I dont need another path to health.
> 
> The reason I believe that diets fail 95% of the time is that there isnt a single statistically significant study that shows otherwise. If you know of one, Im open to reading it. (Note that I am not including weight loss surgery in this because when the side effects include death and lifelong misery, I think thats a game changer.) The reason that I repeat the statistic here often is because I think that were being lied to.
> 
> If your doctor told you that she was going to prescribe you a medicine that worked for Sally, but that she was legally required to say that Sallys results werent typical, that you probably wouldnt experience Sallys results, and then told you that it was more likely to leave you less healthy than more healthy would you take it? If Viagra failed 95% of the time would we blame guys for not trying hard enough or would we say that the medicine didnt work?
> 
> Its time to tell the truth: The Emperor has no weight loss.
> 
> For more research on this subject, check out this post.*


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## shy guy

LillyBBBW said:


> Yes I know it sounds crazy but no scientifically controlled test were able to produce any weight loss that resulted in anything long term. People lose weight at first but the body adapts. Look it up, it's true. And therin lies the problem. There are people who simply don't believe it and keep banging on that same old bone about weight loss. The facts are inconvenient.



Ok, not to stir anything else up but what is wrong with people just trying? Yes losing weight is tough, I get that, but when it's drop over a hundred pounds or I'm gonna die I'm not going down without a fight. I'm sorry Lilly, maybe I'm getting my wires crossed here, but are you saying that all the Zsalynn's of the world should give up? 

I don't get it, we can encourage other to gain weight but give little to no support to those who wish to lose weight, is anyone seeing the irony in this? How can dimensions call itself a *''size acceptance''* forum when in reality it's not, it's like you have to be at this magic size to be accepted around here, hmmm..sounds a lot like the real word.


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## shy guy

wrestlingguy said:


> The only "article" (blog, really) that I've seen that addresses that number is from Ragen Chastain, HAES advocate, author and lecturer, and her website, Dances With Fat. I'll link you to her blog here, since she deserves the reads based on the quality of her works, but here's the actual blog below:


Thank you so much, so pretty much what was said in the article is that the math is bogus yet not bogus.


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## LillyBBBW

shy guy said:


> Ok, not to stir anything else up but what is wrong with people just trying? Yes losing weight is tough, I get that, but when it's drop over a hundred pounds or I'm gonna die I'm not going down without a fight. I'm sorry Lilly, maybe I'm getting my wires crossed here, but are you saying that all the Zsalynn's of the world should give up?
> 
> I don't get it, we can encourage other to gain weight but give little to no support to those who wish to lose weight, is anyone seeing the irony in this? How can dimensions call itself a *''size acceptance''* forum when in reality it's not, it's like you have to be at this magic size to be accepted around here, hmmm..sounds a lot like the real word.



I really don't know why people keep reading this in my posts. I feel like Im making it clear that people can do whatever they feel is best for them and what works? I've said that in almost every post I've made. My point in the simplest terms I can muster is that we should not be mean to people who try and fail. Failure is a possibility here and a very strong one. My discomfort is with the judgement that Zsalynn is getting.


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## Sasquatch!

Oh please... it's long past time we all admitted that this website is about acceptance-- size acceptance or any other kind.

Claiming otherwise is utter bullshit.


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## EvilPrincess

This thread has deteriorated to the point of insults and group think. This is a gentle reminder that these kinds of discussions do not help anyone, change the world, or determine who wins. Carry on with caution, this is the warning. 

Regards, EP


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## Sasquatch!

EvilPrincess said:


> This thread has deteriorated to the point of insults and group think. This is a gentle reminder that these kinds of discussions do not help anyone, change the world, or determine who wins. Carry on with caution, this is the warning.
> 
> Regards, EP



"Group think"? It's hard to avoid "Group think" when the group in question is an entire gender.


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## Wild Zero

It was shitty of me to insult the BHMs. And as much as I'd like to be like "lololol no rest until every subboard is fighting in this thread" it was a dick move to throw you guys under the bus to shit all over SurlySomething, who sucks.


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## Sasquatch!

Wild Zero said:


> It was shitty of me to insult the BHMs. And as much as I'd like to be like "lololol no rest until every subboard is fighting in this thread" it was a dick move to throw you guys under the bus to shit all over SurlySomething, who sucks.



Apology accepted.


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## Hozay J Garseeya

Wild Zero said:


> It was shitty of me to insult the BHMs. And as much as I'd like to be like "lololol no rest until every subboard is fighting in this thread" it was a dick move to throw you guys under the bus to shit all over SurlySomething, who sucks.



Thank you.


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## Angel

Life is all about choices. Every day we are faced with decisions, though usually not as urgent as a life or death situation. I think that most adults understand that sometimes our choices and decisions are possibly going to have consequences, be they immediate or in the distant future. It is up to each individual to weigh the pros and cons, the positives or possible negatives. I can say, yes, it's my body, and I can make my own decisions. In a perfect world others would respect my wisdom to know that I know what is best for me. In a perfect world others would be more concerned with living their life to the fullest than with passing judgement on how I live (or have in the past _lived_) my life. Part of human nature is wanting to protect others, and not see them experience hurt, physical pain, emotional pain, health issues, or even face the possibility of having regrets later in life. And certainly I wouldn't want anyone to experience the diminishment of their mobility or quality of life or of their happiness. It can be good to share life experiences if we truly are concerned as long as we are not passing judgement in the same breath. No one wants to be looked down upon because of their size or weight. Concern and compassion go hand in hand. Sometimes sincerity includes keeping our thoughts and opinions to ourselves until we are asked for them.

As far as realities, I think most SSBBW here are aware, as are their long-term significant others. Those that peruse the site for _only_ self gratification purposes don't want to be bothered with the details of the realities; if someone _only_ comes here to satisfy their fantasies, they aren't concerned with a "real" person's quality of life. I think most of us SSBBW have encountered at least one of these types who don't see us as anything other than human flesh or fat. 

Regardless of weight (present, past, or desired weight) and regardless of how we as individuals got (or get) there, we deserve to be treated with dignity.


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## Webmaster

shy guy said:


> The lack of the mods is puzzling to say the least, people are getting slammed left and right here but nobody is doing a damn thing about it? So does Blackjack or Wild Zero have to threaten to murder someone before something is done about it? I'm sorry but what ever righteous reason those two had for going after Surly is pointless now, you can't follow somebody on the street shouting obscenities at them without being arrested, so why is this still going on?




Folks.... sure we can get involved, but you all know full well that then there'll be howls of how people's right to free speech is violated, how heavy-handed the moderators are, that we're being so unfair, and so on. If we let the discussion run, we're accused of not intervening. Almost everyone will have to admit that it's really sad that a group of adults seems unable to discuss a topic without starting the attacks and name calling until a valuable thread is rendered a total mess.

So let us know what you want for us to do. You can't have it both ways.


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## Mindee

While I often read the comments here I have not commented on anything for months. However I cannot let this one pass.

If Zsalynn decides she wants to undergo bariatric surgery for her health that is her business. Let her go about it off the radar and be on with her new & different life.

What I find bothersome about all this is that this person CHOSE to grow herself to an immense size and reap the monetary benefits from her porn site. Nope. Sorry. It's not "art" it's porn. 

However just like Susann Eman and that horrid creature Donna Simpson..just as the clock on their 15 minutes of fame had closed down to 14 minutes and 45 seconds they decide to look for another bite at the apple by denouncing all of their previous words and actions and look for a new adoring audience.

Just like Susann & Donna, Zsalynn attempts to shift the blame for her life choices onto "others" and then the tell the mega-lie that she only did her porn site to get money for her WLS. Baloney!!

In fact all the time she was leading up to and undergoing her WLS she was posting pics of her at her old weight as though they were new pics.

If people want to make a change in their lifestyle for their health or their mental state, they should make those changes. But they should NOT try to blame others, or attempt to hide from their past words and actions.

It would have been far, far better had Zsalynn simply departed from this arena and conducted her private choices in private instead of attempting to seek another 15 minutes of fame by decrying her past lifestyle which she now blames on others.


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## tonynyc

Mindee said:


> While I often read the comments here I have not commented on anything for months. However I cannot let this one pass.
> 
> If Zsalynn decides she wants to undergo bariatric surgery for her health that is her business. Let her go about it off the radar and be on with her new & different life.
> 
> What I find bothersome about all this is that this person CHOSE to grow herself to an immense size and reap the monetary benefits from her porn site. Nope. Sorry. It's not "art" it's porn.
> 
> However just like Susann Eman and that horrid creature Donna Simpson..just as the clock on their 15 minutes of fame had closed down to 14 minutes and 45 seconds they decide to look for another bite at the apple by denouncing all of their previous words and actions and look for a new adoring audience.
> 
> Just like Susann & Donna, Zsalynn attempts to shift the blame for her life choices onto "others" and then the tell the mega-lie that she only did her porn site to get money for her WLS. Baloney!!
> 
> In fact all the time she was leading up to and undergoing her WLS she was posting pics of her at her old weight as though they were new pics.
> 
> If people want to make a change in their lifestyle for their health or their mental state, they should make those changes. But they should NOT try to blame others, or attempt to hide from their past words and actions.
> 
> It would have been far, far better had Zsalynn simply departed from this arena and conducted her private choices in private instead of attempting to seek another 15 minutes of fame by decrying her past lifestyle which she now blames on others.



*it's also two different scenarios - you have a documentary versus appearing on a talk-show both with very different dynamics.

*


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## EvilPrincess

EvilPrincess said:


> This thread has deteriorated to the point of insults and group think. This is a gentle reminder that these kinds of discussions do not help anyone, change the world, or determine who wins. Carry on with caution, this is the warning.
> 
> Regards, EP



The sand box is closed. Any new threads started to circumvent the closure will be closed. 

EP moderator


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## EvilPrincess

EvilPrincess said:


> The sand box is closed. Any new threads started to circumvent the closure will be closed.
> 
> EP moderator



Since so many Dimmers are curious about infractions, and must be comparing User CPs, please note that infractions and actions by moderators are between the member and the moderator. There is no announcement or posting. 

Enjoy


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