# A question for the guys.



## Carrie (Jan 29, 2006)

(Ladies are welcome to chime in, of course, but I'm definitely hoping for some male feedback, too). 

I am a bit of an oddball in that I really don't care much, if at all, about a man's attractiveness in regards to who I'd like to date. Basically, as long as he is relatively well-groomed, is clean and ascribes to the universal laws of hygiene, that's pretty much all I ask. Now, don't get me wrong - if a man to whom I'm attracted happens to be good-looking, that's nice. I enjoy that. But it's very much frosting on an already delicious cake, and completely unnecessary. 

I attribute all of this to the fact that when I was in my early 20's I fell madly in love with a friend of mine, who by typical societal standards, was not terribly attractive. But I wanted him. I lusted after him in a very physical, carnal sense, because his intelligence, sense of humor, quirkiness, and our closeness turned me on more than I'd ever imagined possible. 

So my point. People flat out don't believe me when I say that I don't care about looks. Women don't, men don't, nobody seems to. It always comes down to, "Well, sure, you have to be attracted to his mind, but there *has* to be a physical attraction/spark at the beginning, too...." But see, there doesn't, because thanks to my first love, I know that I can _become_ physically attracted to someone whose brain and personality get me hot. 

Is this really so hard to buy? Do I sound like I'm full of it when I say this? Does anyone else feel this way? Because the response I get when asked what I find attractive and this is my answer is somewhat discouraging - it's always met with skepticism. 

Thoughts?


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## Jane (Jan 29, 2006)

I'll be the first female to crash the thread:

I agree completely. Chemistry is important, but that's not simply visual.

Remember, "No matter how good looking they are, someone, somewhere, is tired of their shit." It takes much longer to get tired of them when they are witty, smart, funny and can keep you entertained.


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## Tina (Jan 29, 2006)

Looks matter to me but they're not the whole shebang. I don't care to be with someone who I think is ugly, but attractiveness is more than a set of physical attributes, and when I fall for someone, they become even more beautiful to me, so that I start noticing all these things I may not have seen before as being attractive.


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## Totmacher (Jan 29, 2006)

I believe you. It's possible to fall in love with a personality and a mind. I'm not sure why people do it, I guess it has something to do with your intentions and strategy when it comes to interpersonal interactions.


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## 1300 Class (Jan 29, 2006)

I believe you very much so. Chemstry is almost essential.


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## Satsurou (Jan 29, 2006)

I truly think that you are right. Anyway, the results of the polls that are typically made in magazines about "what would you find sexy in your partner?" seemed to show that girls/women find attractive more non-phisical things than boys/men, from things like having a good self-steem to be very wealthy, for instance. Men's results were "her boobs", or "her butt" -of course intelligence and sense of humor were present in the answers of both genders-.

This is the way it seems to be. Males do look more the phisical thing while females look for other things. It can be anthropologicall... antropoli... anthropolitel... whatever, I hope you got it... anyway, it can be explained by that "-logy" that starts with "Anthro-" -I promise that I can write it in spanish ^^-, since males from the very beginning had looked for females with a body that, from their POV, made them better potential "mothers" in a prehistorical way -hips wide enough, good breasts, etc...- while females looked for other things not necesarily phisical. Things have changed a lot since then, but most of the male population still do pay more attention to the body than the female population.

Thanks goodness we, 21th century-males, along with that "deep brain" that still contains in some way those animal-like instincts, have intelligence and morals than prevent us from, for instance, punch anyone that offend us ^_^ In some individuals, sadly, that "deep brain" is more accentuated than it should be ^^U

I, personally, had wanted to be with girls not attractive phisically to me. I specially remember one, but that is that way because I already know her and found her funny and intelligent (anyway, it seems that I wasnt funny or intelligent enough ^^ ). The thing is, when I met my actual girlfriend (with whom I am since year 2000, and I hope that it will last forever :smitten: ) I did not know her personally, I saw her and thanks to the fact that I was very attracted by her body, I dared to go and start talking to her instead of keep going to where I was going in that moment. The relationship continued and we realized that we had a lot of things in common and that we are made for each other. I can proudly say that now I am not with her for her body (even if it was the thing that made me look at her in the first place).

Now that I read what I had written I realize that I have not answered your question LOL. I apologize... The thing is, that "-logy" I mentioned before, will just give you the reason and show that you are not being "full of it" when you say that you do not first look at the body 

Sorry for the long and boring post...


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## AnnMarie (Jan 29, 2006)

I believe you... I was very mentally involved/lusted for a guy who was a very, very close friend of mine, but someone who in a "walking down the street" kind of way would never have turned my head. 

However, even though I know it's possible to find something like that without physical chemistry, that's not what I want... LOL

I want the whole nine yards, a guy who makes me blush, who makes me giggle like a school girl because he's a cutie (to me, doesn't have to be hot to others... it's not about that), and who makes me think and feel and look forward to any time I get to spend with him because of who he is on the inside. 

If someone can get all of those great things and really have the looks/build/style of their partner matter not one tiny teeny itty little bit... more power to you, I can't do it. PLUS, I wouldn't want someone with me who's not attracted to me at all physically - but that's a whole different issue.  

I hope more guys chime in... lol


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## RedHead (Jan 29, 2006)

I have to say that when I decided to start dating I was very adamant that I would rather have;

Honesty, integrity, virtue, intelligence, honor, sincerity. Looks were not important to me; I wanted to make sure that what I got was something enduring - beauty is fleeting.

The first time I saw a picture of my "soon to be" husband it was horrible. I admittedly did not want to go out with him - but remembered what I had told myself and arranged for a luncheon date.

WOW he was so unphotogenic - but in person what a knockout.

So I am glad I didn't allow myself to sucumb to society's standards - we were married 6 months to the day we met.


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## ataraxia (Jan 29, 2006)

Satsurou said:


> It can be anthropologicall... antropoli... anthropolitel... whatever, I hope you got it... anyway, it can be explained by that "-logy" that starts with "Anthro-" -I promise that I can write it in spanish ^^-


You want "anthropological" and "anthropology". I always think of it as that science that studies humans the way we usually study animals.


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## ripley (Jan 29, 2006)

I believe you. 

For me, there are always the gorgeous guys, that catch my eye and ignite my libido. But that's a passing thing, a knee-jerk reaction. To fall in love with someone you have to have something more, and that something more is very rarely attached to physical attributes.


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## Les Toil (Jan 29, 2006)

Oh, I've definitely got to be attracted to the person, Carrie. This may sound crass, shallow and insensitive but I can't rely on a smashing, loving, caring personality to send blood down to my southern regions. And if blood isn't getting down to the southern regions then that's not going to make for passionate love making. That's gonna make for frustration and embarrassment and a low self-esteem for BOTH parties. I want someone I can just stare at while she shops for groceries, or someone whose nose I can kiss because it's such a darling l'il nose, or someone I can romanticly attack in the kitchen because she made the deadly mistake of bending over to pick up a stray piece of popcorn. 

BUT (and this is a big but) I do admit if you somehow find yourself in a situation where you're exposed to someone on a regular basis (like a 9-5), that person you initially may have found unattractive may gradually become beautiful beyond belief in your eyes. You'll find yourself madly and passionately in love with him or her because their words and physical movements and habits have become deeply endearing to you. How else can you explain Pam Anderson even TOUCHING Kid Rock, or Beyonce and Jay-Z?? Only thing is, I don't have a 9-5 to go to and I'm CERTAINLY not prepared to turn "nelly" for my mailman James, rgardless of how kind the dude is. 

But yeh, repeated exposure to someone can cause emotions to soar. And so can alcohol.

JOKING!!   

Les


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## AnnMarie (Jan 29, 2006)

Les Toil said:


> someone I can romanticly attack in the kitchen because she made the deadly mistake of bending over to pick up a stray piece of popcorn.




That is the best image ever.

OH man, I want that again!!


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## Les Toil (Jan 29, 2006)

RedHead said:


> The first time I saw a picture of my "soon to be" husband it was horrible. I admittedly did not want to go out with him - but remembered what I had told myself and arranged for a luncheon date.
> 
> WOW he was so unphotogenic - but in person what a knockout.



So sticking to the point of this thread, Redhead, what would have happened if he DID look exactly as he did in that photo? It sounds as if his being a knockout was a definite plus (which I agree it is).


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## saucywench (Jan 29, 2006)

Carrie said:


> (Ladies are welcome to chime in, of course, but I'm definitely hoping for some male feedback, too).
> 
> I am a bit of an oddball in that I really don't care much, if at all, about a man's attractiveness in regards to who I'd like to date. Basically, as long as he is relatively well-groomed, is clean and ascribes to the universal laws of hygiene, that's pretty much all I ask. Now, don't get me wrong - if a man to whom I'm attracted happens to be good-looking, that's nice. I enjoy that. But it's very much frosting on an already delicious cake, and completely unnecessary.
> 
> ...


 
(Well, you've had lots of responses since I started this post, but what the hell.)

Carrie, I absolutely relate to what you're saying, as I feel I am the same way. I fell deeply in love with someone online several years ago and it was months and months and months before I ever got a glimpse of what he looked like. I was hooked almost from the start, too, because he just had that quirky sense of humor and irreverence that just gets me all tingly. He considered himself a rather common-looking man, but his unassuming nature only added to my attraction. I love finding those "diamond-in-the-rough" types because I feel I've found a rare gem (to extend the analogy) that hasn't been tainted by fawning, excess adoration. I like the thought of adoring and being adored by a man that most women would overlook--it makes him all the more special to me. 

We did in time meet and, it's true, he was not a man of classical good looks. But what did that matter to me by that point? With him I had let down all of the protective walls that I normally erect with men. He had broken through to the most tender parts of my soul, and it has taken all of four years to let go. Although a real-life relationship was not possible with him, he gave me a glimpse of the type of relationship that I truly desire with a man, and looks have nothing to do with it. It was a relationship of rare and deep intimacy, and that is why I am currently alone, because I am unwilling to settle for anything common again. I only hope that I can achieve that same level of intimacy with someone who _will_ be available for me, because I deserve it, and I've waited all of my life for it.


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## Santaclear (Jan 29, 2006)

For me chemistry is the main thing, but looks are a part of that chemistry. I've never had a romance based on looks alone. But then, I've never been one for one-night stands or picking people up, ever. If I were, maybe looks would figure more into it.


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## saucywench (Jan 29, 2006)

Satsurou said:


> .... Men's results were "her boobs", or "her butt" -of course intelligence and sense of humor were present in the answers of both genders-.
> 
> This is the way it seems to be. Males do look more the phisical thing while females look for other things....


 
I am appalled (ok, maybe not that extreme, but it's certainly remarkable) when I visit these BBW dating sights and read the profiles of men there. So many don't seem to give much importance to a woman's intelligence. That certainly thins the herd, from my point of view. If I can't relate to a man on an intellectual level, there will be no relationship. I doubt that I could even bother to muster a hello.


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## TraciJo67 (Jan 29, 2006)

Les Toil said:


> Oh, I've definitely got to be attracted to the person, Carrie. This may sound crass, shallow and insensitive but I can't rely on a smashing, loving, caring personality to send blood down to my southern regions. And if blood isn't getting down to the southern regions then that's not going to make for passionate love making. That's gonna make for frustration and embarrassment and a low self-esteem for BOTH parties. I want someone I can just stare at while she shops for groceries, or someone whose nose I can kiss because it's such a darling l'il nose, or someone I can romanticly attack in the kitchen because she made the deadly mistake of bending over to pick up a stray piece of popcorn.
> 
> BUT (and this is a big but) I do admit if you somehow find yourself in a situation where you're exposed to someone on a regular basis (like a 9-5), that person you initially may have found unattractive may gradually become beautiful beyond belief in your eyes. You'll find yourself madly and passionately in love with him or her because their words and physical movements and habits have become deeply endearing to you. How else can you explain Pam Anderson even TOUCHING Kid Rock, or Beyonce and Jay-Z?? Only thing is, I don't have a 9-5 to go to and I'm CERTAINLY not prepared to turn "nelly" for my mailman James, rgardless of how kind the dude is.
> 
> ...



I vehemently agree. Emphatically, even  

An attraction has just got to be there for me - and not just an emotional connection, either (although that is also essential). I can find something endearing and beautiful in just about anyone -- but that doesn't mean that I'm going to be physically attracted to him.

Conventionally good looking men don't do much for me -- no matter how hot someone looks, if he knows it (and has the attending ego) I'm going to be really turned off. But I do have a 'type' - I find myself more attracted to tall, thin men. I don't think that I've ever felt a physical stirring for a man who is shorter than me, and I ::::shudder:::: at body-builder types. Yeah, some might think that's shallow; but that's OK with me. I can't change what I am and am not attracted to.


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## mejix (Jan 29, 2006)

Carrie said:


> Is this really so hard to buy? Do I sound like I'm full of it when I say this? Does anyone else feel this way? Because the response I get when asked what I find attractive and this is my answer is somewhat discouraging - it's always met with skepticism.
> 
> Thoughts?



i believe you. sexual attraction is not exclusively a matter of physical appearance. its a psychological relation. you know what they say, the biggest sexual organ is the brain. the importance of the physical aspect of the person is relative. on the other hand i don't think that not caring about looks is somehow more virtuous. why would that be? what attracts you is how that person complements your personality. and that doesnt necessarily have to do with moral qualities. it has more to do with whatever you need psychologically. a person could say, "i dont care how he looks as long as he abuses me all the time". uggh. people that think you are full of it may think that you are implying that you are morally superior.

me? looks are an important part of the mix. oh yes.


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## swamptoad (Jan 29, 2006)

My wife fell in love with me. She knew I was damn ugly. And I am. *joke*  But, thats not the point.  We see each other for who we once were, who we are now, and who we will be in the future. She fell in love with my *cute sad eyes* sweet, loving, caring, humorous, kind attributed personality. We met online. I fell in love with her gorgeous eyes, sweet, loving, caring, kind, cleverness, intelligence. We always appreciated one another's company and always loved cheering each other up. Plus, we had been and still are Certified Nursing Assistants. 

I suppose I like to impress her by being romantic, writing music, doing the regular house-hold chores, massaging her feet, or just trying to go out of my way to be a gentleman. We don't always get along. 

We found out how much more we loved one another when we met in person..(She was from Minnesota)..(I was from North Carolina.) The day we met was awesome..we even reflected back on it today as we were traveling on the road. *smiles* Its hard to express how wonderful it was for the both of spending time with one another for an entire week in person...and when the day I had to leave Minnesota and go back to North Carolina....we both had tears rolling down our cheeks.  

I feel so blessed to have found Josalynn (my wife)

p.s. *words of wisdom* Don't always take other people's advice over your own judgment when you feel compelled to decide on: dating and breaking up.


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## ripley (Jan 29, 2006)

saucywench said:


> I am appalled (ok, maybe not that extreme, but it's certainly remarkable) when I visit these BBW dating sights and read the profiles of men there. So many don't seem to give much importance to a woman's intelligence.



A guy messaged me on the Dimensions Matching System once. In his little blurb where he said what he was looking for in a partner, he said "Of coarse, intelligence is a must."


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## Tina (Jan 29, 2006)

Sweet, and wise, words, swamptoad.


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## Carrie (Jan 29, 2006)

Les Toil said:


> BUT (and this is a big but) I do admit if you somehow find yourself in a situation where you're exposed to someone on a regular basis (like a 9-5), that person you initially may have found unattractive may gradually become beautiful beyond belief in your eyes. You'll find yourself madly and passionately in love with him or her because their words and physical movements and habits have become deeply endearing to you.



This is really the core of what I was trying to get to, that I think the initial physical appearance is maybe not important to me because I *know* without a doubt that given time, if the connection is there, he will become incredibly physical attractive and completely adorable to me. I need to feel that lust, that carnal desire, for my partner - that's an absolute must. But it's okay if it's not there initially, as long as the emotional/mental spark is there. The emotional/mental spark means there's potential for the lust. I hope that makes sense. 

Thank you, everyone, for your great replies to my post. You've given me a lot to think about, and I just love hearing from the broad array of experiences and opinions we have here!


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## Moonchild (Jan 29, 2006)

Once you establish a mental connection the physical will follow. Your preferences otherwise don't matter because that person becomes the ideal. It doesn't matter what his body looks like as long as it is the body that belongs to him.

I speak from experience... but replace "him" with "her..."


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## Carrie (Jan 29, 2006)

AnnMarie said:


> PLUS, I wouldn't want someone with me who's not attracted to me at all physically - but that's a whole different issue.



Y'know, AnnMarie, that's an excellent point, and one I'd never considered. I also want to be with a man who finds my physical being hot and sexy, and don't want to be with one who sort of puts up with my fat (or whatever) because my inner me is attractive to him. But I don't know if the two are comparable, because I'm not saying that I learn to live with a man's appearance if I'm in love him, but that I actually become incredibly attracted to him if I'm in love with him. 

That having been said, I really do want him to lust after me from the get-go, so I don't know....hmm. I'll have to ponder this.


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## AnnMarie (Jan 29, 2006)

Carrie said:


> This is really the core of what I was trying to get to, that I think the initial physical appearance is maybe not important to me because I *know* without a doubt that given time, if the connection is there, he will become incredibly physical attractive and completely adorable to me. I need to feel that lust, that carnal desire, for my partner - that's an absolute must. But it's okay if it's not there initially, as long as the emotional/mental spark is there. The emotional/mental spark means there's potential for the lust. I hope that makes sense.
> 
> Thank you, everyone, for your great replies to my post. You've given me a lot to think about, and I just love hearing from the broad array of experiences and opinions we have here!




Okay, I'm with you now.... I'm right there. Except this...

That would only work for me if the person in question wasn't posessing a quality that I find physically unattractive. They may not be my type or whatever, but that's fine. But if they were built in a way, or had something about them that was something I find really unattractive in general, then I don't think I could overcome that to the extent of getting to the carnal feeling. 

I may have just said what I said earlier, but I think I was saying that you're right within certain limits. LOL


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## Jes (Jan 29, 2006)

AnnMarie said:


> That is the best image ever.
> 
> OH man, I want that again!!



duh! drop some popcorn on the floor then!

Not long ago, I was attacked when I went into the fridge for a beer. 

that wasn't relevant to this conversation. sorry.


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## Carrie (Jan 29, 2006)

AnnMarie said:


> Okay, I'm with you now.... I'm right there. Except this...
> 
> That would only work for me if the person in question wasn't posessing a quality that I find physically unattractive. They may not be my type or whatever, but that's fine. But if they were built in a way, or had something about them that was something I find really unattractive in general, then I don't think I could overcome that to the extent of getting to the carnal feeling.



Okay, I'm with YOU now, AM, heh! So like if you were really turned off by bad teeth or something, that would be pretty much non-negotiable....that makes sense. Everyone has their "thing", and I don't see why that would be much different from someone having a personality aspect you simply can't abide. Whether it's someone who's controlling, or someone who has bad teeth, if your gut reaction is "Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!", both are equally powerful, I'd think.


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## swamptoad (Jan 30, 2006)

Alright. I just felt like saying this:

I love Josalynn's crooked teeth. :wubu: 

I guess they are sorta over-crowded..but I love her smile so very much!

*hehehe*


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## Carrie (Jan 30, 2006)

swamptoad said:


> Alright. I just felt like saying this:
> 
> I love Josalynn's crooked teeth. :wubu:
> 
> *hehehe*



See? Perfect example.


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## missaf (Jan 30, 2006)

A current involvement of mine is incredibly attracted to me, the person, and me, the friend, and me, the soulmate... but I'm not what he would have called "his eye type." It's a strange place to be in... I fell in love with his soul, he is easy to look at, he catches my eye, but immediately I am drawn to the positives about someone on the outside, and shirk the negatives. When it comes to their soul and attitude, that's another story. If that doesn't measure up or set me on fire, then the shell means nothing. 

Him, I get the feeling that if he even dared ask for more in our relationship he'd be settling on someone that doesn't match his "total picture." I hate to say it, but he's got some serious proving grounds to negotiate through to prove to me he loves the whole picture that is me, this spunk ass BBW who would love him back


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## olivefun (Jan 30, 2006)

I have a friend who always wanted to be with tall skinny men.* That was her "type".*

She met a short, stocky, hairy man and fell in love with him. They have been together for about 15 years now and are a very perfect couple in every way i can imagine.

Of course, every short, stocky, hairy man, is now totally hot to her because they each remind her of her partner.

*
Falling in love can change everything you knew about yourself.*


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## Jes (Jan 30, 2006)

I think there are some deal breakers for me, yes. 

That said, I also know that when I like a person, that person becomes more attractive to me (or at least the possibility is there). Something will endear that person to me, and I might begin to think: what would it be like to kiss that person (and connect with what endeared me as well as the physical person)? I might not have thought that about the person the day we met, but it might grow.

Also, and I'm not sure anyone (maybe meijx) has touched on this, but chemistry is in...chemicals. Pheremones. Things we cannot even detect. So not in nice hair, or a great smile, or a sharp wit, but in--pit stains. Yup. You've all read about the pit stain smelly tshirt studies that have been done with women as sniffers, right? Some women will stick their noses into a pit and smell it, others will do the same and smell nothing. Some will find a guy who isn't their ideal to be intoxicating, etc. etc. Apparently, our bodies pick partners with whom we have the best chance of creating offspring on some level that I won't try to describe here. So maybe that explains your feelings, Carrie. Maybe that guy you're talking about would've provided you the best sperm sample of anyone you'd met! I mean, who knows.

I had one last thing...Oh. I had a female friend. I sat next to her on the first day of my first class of my first course for my last degree. I was nervous and we became pals and I remember thinking some rather unkind things about her. "What a shame she has such thick coke-bottle glasses, her eyes are totally covered." "Why is she wearing all of her hair pulled back the same way every single day?" "that dress looks like a sack on her."

Those things (while mean) were all pretty much true--and yet, after a month or so, when I really began to know her, I thought: if I were a man, this woman would become astoundingly beautiful to me. Sure, her hair was in the same style every day, but it was a meticulously done style and it was a beautiful color. Her eyes, when you bothered looking into them, were a beautiful shape and color. Ok--the dresses were still horrible, but what can you do. So in that case, what I thought was unfortunate turned into a great beauty before my eyes. Of course, that wasn't in a below-the-belt tingly way, but it also wasn't just a 'but she's a good person!' way. I really did grow to see her as beautiful, physically.


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## swamptoad (Jan 30, 2006)

missaf said:


> A current involvement of mine is incredibly attracted to me, the person, and me, the friend, and me, the soulmate... but I'm not what he would have called "his eye type." It's a strange place to be in... I fell in love with his soul, he is easy to look at, he catches my eye, but immediately I am drawn to the positives about someone on the outside, and shirk the negatives. When it comes to their soul and attitude, that's another story. If that doesn't measure up or set me on fire, then the shell means nothing.
> 
> Him, I get the feeling that if he even dared ask for more in our relationship he'd be settling on someone that doesn't match his "total picture." I hate to say it, but he's got some serious proving grounds to negotiate through to prove to me he loves the whole picture that is me, this spunk ass BBW who would love him back



Yep!

2 songs that I think may or may not relate to what you just said: "Patience" -- Guns and Roses and "You Can't Always Get What You Want" --- The Rolling Stones


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## AnnMarie (Jan 30, 2006)

Jes said:


> duh! drop some popcorn on the floor then!
> 
> Not long ago, I was attacked when I went into the fridge for a beer.
> 
> that wasn't relevant to this conversation. sorry.



I'd die alone in here hunched over a piece of floor corn.


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## Ryan (Jan 30, 2006)

I don't find it hard to believe when people tell me that they aren't all that concerned with the appearance of their significant other, because I am the same way. I figure that if I'm lucky enough to find a woman who has similar interests and philosophical/political views and is able put up with me, I won't be too picky about what she looks like.  

As for somebody who doesn't care about appearance at all...I might believe it once I got to know them. If a total stranger said that to me, I'd have my doubts at first. I think it's definitely possible for someone to feel this way, though.


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## Carrie (Jan 30, 2006)

Jes said:


> Also, and I'm not sure anyone (maybe meijx) has touched on this, but chemistry is in...chemicals. Pheremones. Things we cannot even detect. So not in nice hair, or a great smile, or a sharp wit, but in--pit stains. Yup. You've all read about the pit stain smelly tshirt studies that have been done with women as sniffers, right? Some women will stick their noses into a pit and smell it, others will do the same and smell nothing. Some will find a guy who isn't their ideal to be intoxicating, etc. etc. Apparently, our bodies pick partners with whom we have the best chance of creating offspring on some level that I won't try to describe here. So maybe that explains your feelings, Carrie. Maybe that guy you're talking about would've provided you the best sperm sample of anyone you'd met! I mean, who knows.



This boggles my mind....I mean, I know it's true, I've seen it on "Nova" a hundred times, but still. It's hard to believe that we "advanced" humans could base such a huge decision on something so incredibly primal. I believe it's definitely a factor, but it's just hard to wrap my mind around sometimes!


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## Tina (Jan 30, 2006)

olivefun said:


> *
> Falling in love can change everything you knew about yourself.*



There's some real, ultimate truth there, olive.


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## Carrie (Jan 30, 2006)

AnnMarie said:


> I'd die alone in here hunched over a piece of floor corn.



I can just see your gravestone. 

_"Here lies AnnMarie, who died alone, hunched over a piece of floor corn...."_ 

See, I can laugh at that without being mean, because I make jokes about my dogs eating my face before I was discovered, were I to fall down the steps or something.


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## AnnMarie (Jan 30, 2006)

Jes said:


> Also, and I'm not sure anyone (maybe meijx) has touched on this, but chemistry is in...chemicals. Pheremones. Things we cannot even detect. So not in nice hair, or a great smile, or a sharp wit, but in--pit stains. Yup. You've all read about the pit stain smelly tshirt studies that have been done with women as sniffers, right? Some women will stick their noses into a pit and smell it, others will do the same and smell nothing. Some will find a guy who isn't their ideal to be intoxicating, etc. etc. Apparently, our bodies pick partners with whom we have the best chance of creating offspring on some level that I won't try to describe here. So maybe that explains your feelings, Carrie. Maybe that guy you're talking about would've provided you the best sperm sample of anyone you'd met! I mean, who knows.


 
Yup, I think you're right on the money there. There are men that I've seen, never spoken a word to, who are not really anything I'd normally feel any twitterpation toward from a purely visual standpoint... but they have something going on, that GGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRR-factor. I want to throw them down and do unspeakable things to them. No explanation, no personality issues to make the feeling grow (in fact I suspect often the personality issues would mess up my growling)... there isn't much left but that chemical, animal instinct type of thing. 

More power to it, it's a fun feeling when it happens, even if it's something you never explore in real time... that mental rush is GREAT!


----------



## RedHead (Jan 30, 2006)

Les Toil said:


> So sticking to the point of this thread, Redhead, what would have happened if he DID look exactly as he did in that photo? It sounds as if his being a knockout was a definite plus (which I agree it is).




I had such an informative, wonderful, delightful luncheon. He was articulate, he spoke in complete concise sentences; he asked probing meaningful questions about my thoughts, future, plans, goals and all around was someone I wanted to get to know more.

Had he been unattractive physically, I think I would still have felt an attraction because of his overall charm and personality. Perhaps he's not as good looking as I think, perhaps it's only in my eyes; because of who he is and what he is to me. But frankly, based on all the women who hit on him, I think I would be safe to say others find him as attractive.


----------



## AnnMarie (Jan 30, 2006)

Carrie said:


> I can just see your gravestone.
> 
> _"Here lies AnnMarie, who died alone, hunched over a piece of floor corn...."_
> 
> See, I can laugh at that without being mean, because I make jokes about my dogs eating my face before I was discovered, were I to fall down the steps or something.



Oh I do the same thing!! LOL You sick chick. I'm so glad I have a sister in that.


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## swamptoad (Jan 30, 2006)

*Quotes regarding love:*

_I hope that some of you enjoy these quotes:_

(1) "When you fish for love, bait with your heart, not your brain". ~ Mark Twain
(2) "We waste time looking for the perfect lover, instead of creating the perfect love". ~ Tom Robbins
(3) "There are more love songs than anything else. If songs could make you do something we'd all love one another". ~ Frank Zappa
(4) "Love seems the swiftest, but it is the slowest of growths". ~ Mark Twain
(5) "Love not what you are, but what you may become". ~ Miguel de Cervantes
(6) "Love is one song sung by two". ~ Garfield
(7) "Love is as unproblematic as a vehicle. The only problems are the drivers, the passengers and the road". ~ Franz Kafka 
(8) "Love is a word, what matters is the connection that word implies ~ The Matrix Revolutions
(9) "Love is a madness; if thwarted it develops fast". ~ Mark Twain
(10) "Love has a hem to her garment that reaches to the very dust. It sweeps the stains from the streets and lanes, and because it can, it must". ~ Mother Teresa
(11) "Love gives us in a moment what we can hardly attain by effort after years of toil". ~ Goethe
(12) "Love ain't nothing but sex misspelled. - Harlan Ellison, Title of book (1968) 
(13) "Hate the sin and love the sinner". ~ Mohandas Gandhi 
(14) "Death cannot stop true love. It can only delay it for a while". ~ The Princess Bride 
(15) "And remember, my sentimental friend, that a heart is not judged by how much you love, but by how much you are loved by others". ~ Professor Marvel in Wizard of Oz 
(16) "At the touch of love, everyone becomes a poet". ~ Plato
(17) "A man falls in love through his eyes, a woman through her ears". ~ Woodrow Wyatt
(18) "A coward is incapable of exhibiting love; it is the prerogative of the brave". ~ Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi


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## Carrie (Jan 30, 2006)

Swampy, you're a total sweetie and I'm really glad you're here, but I gotta tell you - you're a master of non-sequitur posts in the middle of threads that otherwise sorta kinda make sense.


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## Carrie (Jan 30, 2006)

AnnMarie said:


> Oh I do the same thing!! LOL You sick chick. I'm so glad I have a sister in that.



Sick minds think alike, dontcha know.


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## Les Toil (Jan 30, 2006)

swamptoad said:


> I feel so blessed to have found Josalynn (my wife)



Good gawd almighty, that rocks, sir. And I envy you very much.


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## Les Toil (Jan 30, 2006)

ripley said:


> A guy messaged me on the Dimensions Matching System once. In his little blurb where he said what he was looking for in a partner, he said "Of coarse, intelligence is a must."



See, now THAT'S comedy.


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## Fuzzy (Jan 30, 2006)

Firstly, I'd settle for anyone who would hold my hand, and walk with me, talk with me, look for shooting stars with me, and grow old with me. 

How someone looks now will not be how they look when gray hairs and wrinkles appear. Makeup improves, but makeup also comes off at night. Illness and cancer treatment will make the hair fall out. Someone whose depressed and blue, and the same person laughing and happy can be for some a night and day difference. Physical attraction is one thing, but more important is how they feel, act, and love. If you want to know someone's character, see how they treat the waitress, or their cat, or their mom.


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## Les Toil (Jan 30, 2006)

RedHead said:


> I had such an informative, wonderful, delightful luncheon. He was articulate, he spoke in complete concise sentences; he asked probing meaningful questions about my thoughts, future, plans, goals and all around was someone I wanted to get to know more.
> 
> Had he been unattractive physically, I think I would still have felt an attraction because of his overall charm and personality. Perhaps he's not as good looking as I think, perhaps it's only in my eyes; because of who he is and what he is to me. But frankly, based on all the women who hit on him, I think I would be safe to say others find him as attractive.



Thanks for the great response, Redhead. You have no idea how I relate. When you're in love, visual perception often becomes skewed. If you're immediately attrated to that person or if that attraction comes later, love unexplainably makes that person seem God-sent and stunning.


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## Carrie (Jan 30, 2006)

Les Toil said:


> When you're in love, visual perception often becomes skewed. If you're immediately attrated to that person _*or if that attraction comes later,*_ love unexplainably makes that person seem God-sent and stunning.



Bingo.



This character length minimum is a pain in my arse.


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## Jes (Jan 30, 2006)

AnnMarie said:


> Yup, I think you're right on the money there. There are men that I've seen, never spoken a word to, who are not really anything I'd normally feel any twitterpation toward from a purely visual standpoint... but they have something going on, that GGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRRR-factor. I want to throw them down and do unspeakable things to them. No explanation, no personality issues to make the feeling grow (in fact I suspect often the personality issues would mess up my growling)... there isn't much left but that chemical, animal instinct type of thing.
> 
> More power to it, it's a fun feeling when it happens, even if it's something you never explore in real time... that mental rush is GREAT!



No, that's right, that's absolutely right. Sometimes, I'll see a guy, and I'll know, just KNOW, that he's amazing in the sack. And I want to find out (I don't, I'm just sayin'). That has to be pheremones. That has to be my body's way of picking out someone with whom I'd breed well.

mrrroowr. It's that compulsion to find out if he's good in the sack that the chemistry causes!


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## Jane (Jan 30, 2006)

Les Toil said:


> Thanks for the great response, Redhead. You have no idea how I relate. When you're in love, visual perception often becomes skewed. If you're immediately attrated to that person or if that attraction comes later, love unexplainably makes that person seem God-sent and stunning.


That's looking through the eyes of love. Ain't it wonderful.


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## Jane (Jan 30, 2006)

swamptoad said:


> Yep!
> 
> 2 songs that I think may or may not relate to what you just said: "Patience" -- Guns and Roses and "You Can't Always Get What You Want" --- The Rolling Stones


 you just might find that you get what you NEED.


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## olivefun (Jan 30, 2006)

ripley said:


> he said "Of coarse, intelligence is a must."


 
Maybe he is looking for a tutor. 


That is great! 
I have seen that before. 


Or a man who appears in his photo to have very poor personal hygiene and saying he would only date a woman he considers to be a princess, "real 10".


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## EtobicokeFA (Jan 30, 2006)

Answering the original question, yes chemistry overrules visual presentation. Of course, not at first, but in the long run. 

Yes, people believe that you should go for the people who you find the most attractive. However, can people who what a real relationship, stay together with physical attraction alone? 

Remember you have to go home with this person every night. So, make sure that the person has a personality that you can love and survive life's hurdles with!


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## swamptoad (Jan 30, 2006)

Carrie said:


> Swampy, you're a total sweetie and I'm really glad you're here, but I gotta tell you - you're a master of non-sequitur posts in the middle of threads that otherwise sorta kinda make sense.



What does non-sequitor mean?


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## Jes (Jan 30, 2006)

swamptoad said:


> What does non-sequitor mean?


does-not-follow

so...like...'one of these things is not like the other, not like the other, not like the other...'


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## Carrie (Jan 30, 2006)

Jes said:


> does-not-follow
> 
> so...like...'one of these things is not like the other, not like the other, not like the other...'



Exactly. Aka off-topic.  

But no harm meant, Swamps, okay?


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## Tad (Jan 30, 2006)

Ive had a fair handle on my physical preferences right from puberty. Which makes it perhaps all the more odd that the first girl that I fell for really hard was one that I had no particular physical attraction initially. That is, one year there she was in my music class, a grade nine joining the grade ten class because of her out of school music training. I obviously knew who she was because she was new, but I spared barely a glance for her appearance, she just didnt hit any of those visual buttons that would make me look twice. But then I got to know her better, and it turned out we shared some interests, and she was wickedly smart and talented. Then we had some chances to spend a bit of time together, and we totally hit it off.

And then my family moved out of the country, and I only ever saw her briefly once after that. But that is not the point of the story.

The neat thing was that as I got to know her better, I began to find things about her that I found attractive. The cut of her chin, that slight smile, and so on. As I fell for her, everything about her started becoming attractive to me, even things that I would in general find not so attractive. That is, everything about her was attractive, because it was part of her.

Ive had the same general experience with my wife. In her case I was attracted to her right from the get go, but as I fell in love with her I found more things about her attractive, and Im sure my preferences in general have drifted to more closely match what she looks like.


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## swamptoad (Jan 30, 2006)

Carrie said:


> Swampy, you're a total sweetie and I'm really glad you're here, but I gotta tell you - you're a master of non-sequitur posts in the middle of threads that otherwise sorta kinda make sense.



Originally Posted by swamptoad
What does non-sequitor mean? 

does-not-follow

so...like...'one of these things is not like the other, not like the other, not like the other...' 


Thats like politely telling me

you are still off-topic, bud.

should've stayed on topic or not written anything at all.


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## swamptoad (Jan 30, 2006)

Or....perhaps I should've posted those love quotes in a seperate thread.

I didn't intend on getting off-topic or seemingly appear as a thread hijacker

 

This is really good thread, by the way. 

p.s. I don't want to be called a master of this. This is something I do not fancy doing.


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## Carrie (Jan 30, 2006)

swamptoad said:


> Or....perhaps I should've posted those love quotes in a seperate thread.
> 
> I didn't intend on getting off-topic or seemingly appear as a thread hijacker
> 
> ...



Forget it, sweetie, I just surrendered to a moment of snark. I'm glad you like this thread - keep participating in it! You always bring something positive to a thread.


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## Webmaster (Jan 30, 2006)

I don't know. I get mixed messages. Women like to say that men are shallow because many react to conventional beauty whereas women are supposed to be so much deeper and appreciate more important values. 

My guess is that generically that is true. From a genetic, evolutionary point of view, men are probably programmed to be drawn to what is considered the most perfect representatives of the species whereas women are more likely to be programmed towards being drawn to reliable partners who are good providers and protectors.

As we have evolved beyond mere insticts and drives, I suppose more and more we cherish qualities that go beyond just the physical. Our "reptilian" brain may still react to the ancient genetic impulses whereas the more modern neocortex part of the brain will seek, and value, more intellectual stimulation.


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## olivefun (Jan 30, 2006)

Webmaster said:


> Women like to say that men are shallow because many react to conventional beauty whereas women are supposed to be so much deeper and appreciate more important values.



Well, I think there are rules and exceptions to the rules, if you are trying to say that in general, men and women are equal in their lust after images of beauty... I ask you to look at the number of porn magazines that cater to pictures of women or those that feature pictures of men.

We can talk about this for a very very long time, it is such a complicated issue.

Women are not putting images of ideal manhood on the mud flaps of their trucks.

I don't think that this makes men more or less shallow, but I do think that men respond to visual stimulation more readily in general.

Things are changing, but very slowly. I have seen the other gender version of this tshirt, but not as often as I have seen this image.


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## Tina (Jan 30, 2006)

Heh. One time my son and I were pulling away from a store and in the parking lot was a truck with those ridiculous silhouette mud flaps, a sticker of that on the back window and a playboy bunny sticker on the window, too. I told him, "Honey, don't ever do that. Guys who place all that crap on their cars are advertising that they are jerks who don't get any." Right or wrong, it's how I see it.


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## Carrie (Jan 30, 2006)

olivefun said:


> Well, I think there are rules and exceptions to the rules, if you are trying to say that in general, men and women are equal in their lust after images of beauty... I ask you to look at the number of porn magazines that cater to pictures of women or those that feature pictures of men.
> 
> We can talk about this for a very very long time, it is such a complicated issue.
> 
> ...



That brings up another interesting point - I belong to a few dating sites, and it seems like lately I've been hearing the statement "Men are visual creatures" repeatedly on the various site message boards. I'm not sure I "get" that. It sounds like such a general statement that I'm not sure if the utterers are speaking re. everything, or just in terms of male:female interaction. I certainly don't think that men are more visually-oriented than females in _general_, but maybe in terms of attraction. Do you mean it in a general sense, Olive, or in a more specific way?


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## olivefun (Jan 30, 2006)

Tina said:


> ... Guys who place all that crap on their cars are advertising that they are jerks who don't get any." Right or wrong, it's how I see it.


 
Really, what do those guys hope for? 

No matter what you or he looks like, what are you supposed to feel when you see mudflap girl on his car? 

If you go to a bar, meet a nice-seeming fella, he wants to drive you home, and you see these things on the car air freshener... Like really? What does he think when he looks at these images,, is it a turn on for him? 
Is this a deal breaker for women? 

That this could represent a woman, is kind of shocking. I resemble a depiction of glass of orange juice more than I look anything like that image. 

And Carrie, I do mean to say that it is my opinion that men respond to visual stimulation in terms of sexual attraction more. 

Have you ever been to a bachelor's apartment? They usually have fewer pretty things adorning their walls.. they clearly do not get terribly affected about the visuals in their immediate space.. LOL


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## Carrie (Jan 30, 2006)

olivefun said:


> And Carrie, I do mean to say that it is my opinion that men respond to visual stimulation in terms of sexual attraction more.
> 
> Have you ever been to a bachelor's apartment? They usually have fewer pretty things adorning their walls.. they clearly do not get terribly affected about the visuals in their immediate space.. LOL



LOL! That's kind of what I was picturing, one of those post-college bland apartments with the mini-blinds and white walls.


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## Les Toil (Jan 30, 2006)

Carrie said:


> I'm not sure I "get" that. It sounds like such a general statement that I'm not sure if the utterers are speaking re. everything, or just in terms of male:female interaction. I certainly don't think that men are more visually-oriented than females in _general_, but maybe in terms of attraction. Do you mean it in a general sense, Olive, or in a more specific way?



Undoubtably we human males are more visually oriented. We're stimulated by what we see. That sexy red dress you wear, the way you wear your hair, your painted toenails, the substantiality of your thighs, the smallness of your dainty hands. It goes without saying. But yes, women aren't that much difference. There's tons of women that melt when they look at their date's hand and it's big and manly with veins and stuff. LOL. Sure, women quite often fall for guys that happen to be the more pensive, sensitive, and physically thin/small fragile type, but I'd bet anything many of them have subconsciously searched and found something masculine and protective and mature about those guys that drives them batty. Their salt n' pepper beards, their worn knuckles from building something--their rock-hard knees! Who knows! LOL. It's just that we guys are also visually stimulated but to a greater degree. 

Either that or our brains just haven't evolved as quickly as women's. 

That's why we guys often need a visual tool like porn to masturbate to while women typically need nothing more than a well-written love story--or just their imagination! But until we ARE able to rely heavilly on our minds to sexually stimulate ourselves, you women are gonna have to keep doing that thing where you walk around in the crotchless panties and fuzzy high heel bedroom shoes a couple times a week. 

OK, so I'm pulling your leg with that last sentence, but I have to say, a woman climbing in bed with just an oversize beat-up ol' t-shirt is CRAZY sexy, and I sense there's things a guy wears to bed that drives them equally as ga-ga. For instance, since I can remember, my dear ol' mom has ALWAYS been insane for Nazi uniforms. YES!! She's looked at damn-near every Holocaust and WW2 documentary ever made and she knows the 3rd Reich were descendants of Hell and turns a shade or purple when she hears of these people that believe the Holocuast was a hoax, but she always jokes that seeing a Nazi in a Nazi uniform turns her on (especially if he was an officer with one of those long leather overcoats). LOL. I'm sensing not too many African-American women have THAT particular visual fantasy.


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## Carrie (Jan 30, 2006)

Les Toil said:


> Sure, women quite often fall for guys that happen to be the more pensive, sensitive, and physically thin/small fragile type, but I'd bet anything many of them have subconsciously searched and found something masculine and protective and mature about those guys that drives them batty. Their salt n' pepper beards, their worn knuckles from building something--their rock-hard knees! Who knows! LOL. It's just that we guys are also visually stimulated but to a greater degree.



Excellent point....I find the ability to build or fix things _incredibly_ attractive in men (don't get me started on toolbelts or those mechanic jumpsuits - miaaaow!), so maybe it's "masculine" traits like that that make for some initial attraction for me, in lieu of appearance.


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## Tina (Jan 30, 2006)

> I'm sensing not too many African-American women have THAT particular visual fantasy.



Heheh. You're probably right about that one. 

Okay, I have to say that while I don't have these standard physical things that must be in place for me to find a guy sexy (though I do have others, like wit, humor, intelligence, a good vocabulary and knows how to use it, thoughtful, nice, nurturing with massaging and such), there *are* things that turn me on when I see them. Those things are adept hands, nice thighs, nicely-shaped forearms, a great smile (preferably with dimples) and beautiful eyes. Put all that together and I'm putty in your hands.

Personally, some sort of attraction does have to be in place for me to start the heavy breathing. And while I can't say I get off to porn, I can be just as visual as any guy (which is why good grooming is important to me).


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## olivefun (Jan 30, 2006)

Les Toil said:


> That sexy red dress you wear, the way you wear your hair, your painted toenails, the substantiality of your thighs, the smallness of your dainty hands. It goes without saying. .


 
I had no idea that you liked that tight red dress... don't you think it stretches too tight on my belly? 

LOL 

Really Les, you got my attention there.. that kind of thing makes me swoon, having someone really notice things that are unique to me. In these words, you are painting a lovely image.

*
We all have a connection between our eyes, hearts and our libido. In some of us, at various times, it is a more direct route. *

Sometimes the very things that turn us into a quivering heap, in a different combination, don't register anything on our hot-o-meters. 
*
There is no way to predict what turns us on or off.*
If such a thing were possible, there would be a copyright on it, in an instant. I guess the individuality of our fantasies is what makes this task tricky. 

As we all know, it is the combination of visuals, along with with everything else. A-ha, but in what proportion..?


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## Jes (Jan 30, 2006)

Les Toil said:


> For instance, since I can remember, my dear ol' mom has ALWAYS been insane for Nazi uniforms. YES!! She's looked at damn-near every Holocaust and WW2 documentary ever made and she knows the 3rd Reich were descendants of Hell and turns a shade or purple when she hears of these people that believe the Holocuast was a hoax, but she always jokes that seeing a Nazi in a Nazi uniform turns her on (especially if he was an officer with one of those long leather overcoats). LOL. I'm sensing not too many African-American women have THAT particular visual fantasy.



I...find it interesting that you and your mom discuss sexual fantasies. My mom doesn't even know I have a vagina. 

I am insane for a guy in flannel. INSANE. It absolutely ruins my cool, calm exterior in a heartbeat.


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## AnnMarie (Jan 30, 2006)

If you're going to have a mudflap girl, this is the one to have.  

http://www.dumptruckstuff.com/ 

View attachment dumptruck-sticker-on.jpg


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## AnnMarie (Jan 30, 2006)

Jes said:


> I am insane for a guy in flannel. INSANE. It absolutely ruins my cool, calm exterior in a heartbeat.




I have that for cargo pants. Oh my sweet Jesus, it's all giggles and twitches from there on out (Of course they have to be on a guy who's cute to me, not just some random ol' shmo on the street).


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## Jes (Jan 30, 2006)

AnnMarie said:


> I have that for cargo pants. Oh my sweet Jesus, it's all giggles and twitches from there on out (Of course they have to be on a guy who's cute to me, not just some random ol' shmo on the street).


I can appreciate what you're saying, Dr. AnnMarie. What did you think of my pirate photo? Hot or Not?


----------



## Ryan (Jan 30, 2006)

olivefun said:


> Have you ever been to a bachelor's apartment? They usually have fewer pretty things adorning their walls.. they clearly do not get terribly affected about the visuals in their immediate space.. LOL



That sounds like my apartment. I've lived here for years and don't have a single thing hanging on my walls. Nothing. Not even a mirror (there's a mirror attached to the wall in the bathroom, though).

I don't have a kitchen table. My dining room is my computer room. If I eat when I'm at home, I usually eat in front of the computer or in front of the TV, setting my plate on the coffee table. 

I still have boxes that are unpacked from when I moved here, several years ago. Seriously.

I do have furniture, though. My furniture is actually pretty nice. And I keep my apartment very clean. I wanted to point that out in case people had the impression that I was a bum or something.  When I have a limited amount of space to put things, I see no point in having things I won't use (like a kitchen table).


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## AnnMarie (Jan 30, 2006)

Jes said:


> I can appreciate what you're saying, Dr. AnnMarie. What did you think of my pirate photo? Hot or Not?




Ooooo, when did I become a Dr??


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## AnnMarie (Jan 30, 2006)

Jes said:


> I can appreciate what you're saying, Dr. AnnMarie. What did you think of my pirate photo? Hot or Not?



I wrote back, you no receivy?


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## Jes (Jan 30, 2006)

AnnMarie said:


> Ooooo, when did I become a Dr??



Well, you see, *I'm* a doctor, and when I have a consult with someone else, it's usually with another doctor, so...

(did you see anything Brad Pitt-ish about the pirate?)


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## olivefun (Jan 30, 2006)

Ryan said:


> That sounds like my apartment. I've lived here for years and don't have a single thing hanging on my walls. Nothing. ....
> I still have boxes that are unpacked from when I moved here, several years ago. Seriously.


 

That is funny Ryan. 

I once moved in with a fellow, into his place. He had been there a while, and it was uh ...sparsely decorated. It never bothered him enough to try something but wanted it to look nicer now that I was moving in. 

Within 15 minutes of living with him, the place looked artistic and way different. Some evocative post cards from my purse were on the wall, a couple scarves were placed in nice spots, one on the curtains, one over a chair, and another on a lampshade. After placing some books on the table, it really felt like a home. I hadn't been trying to do anything, I just wanted something nice to look at. 
He remarked on it many times, claiming that he just couldn't figure out how to make it home-like, and then there it was. 

It reminded him of a character from Sartre's La Nausee, Annie, I think that was her name, that did the same thing for the protagonist. 

People can only do what they feel comfortable doing. 
It can be very awkward to see a place where the decor and the person who lives there weren't in sync. 

How is this for a thread hijack? 
Sorry, I got lost in reverie..


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## AnnMarie (Jan 30, 2006)

Jes said:


> Well, you see, *I'm* a doctor, and when I have a consult with someone else, it's usually with another doctor, so...
> 
> (did you see anything Brad Pitt-ish about the pirate?)



I answered you, but totally forgot that part. Yes, I think I actually do now that you mention it. It's an "ish" level, you're correct... not quite an "esque", but I think I see the ishishness.


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## Jes (Jan 30, 2006)

AnnMarie said:


> I answered you, but totally forgot that part. Yes, I think I actually do now that you mention it. It's an "ish" level, you're correct... not quite an "esque", but I think I see the ishishness.



AM is my new BFF!


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## AnnMarie (Jan 31, 2006)

Jes said:


> AM is my new BFF!




Yay me!! 

Is that still Best Friends Forever or did I just get happy over something rude or obscene? LOL


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## Les Toil (Jan 31, 2006)

Jes said:


> I...find it interesting that you and your mom discuss sexual fantasies. My mom doesn't even know I have a vagina.




RFLMAO! Well I wouldn't go THAT far, Jes. "Those Nazi uniforms turn me on" are to the extent of her sexual fantasizing with me. LOL.


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## Jes (Jan 31, 2006)

AnnMarie said:


> Yay me!!
> 
> Is that still Best Friends Forever or did I just get happy over something rude or obscene? LOL



either that or you're my boyfriend's father. Which are you, eh? eh?


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## Satsurou (Feb 3, 2006)

saucywench said:


> when I visit these BBW dating sights and read the profiles of men there. So many don't seem to give much importance to a woman's intelligence.


That many be because they aren't looking for a serious relationship, but just a couple of nights. Not trying to excuse them, though; if they want that, they should post in a sex site instead of a dating site (MHO)


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## JerseyBigBoy (Feb 3, 2006)

I would rather date an average to below average looking woman whom I had fun with, shared laughter and enjoyed similar activities than a woman who was attractive but boring--or worse, unpleasant. I love to camp but you'll rarely if ever drag a high-maintenance girly girl out to the woods for a weekend. Years ago I dated a few "beautiful" women and twice I was involved in fights when other guys tried to swoop in. Both times, the girl seemed to like the attention. The older I get the more I value who the woman is over what she looks like.


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## CleverBomb (Feb 3, 2006)

olivefun said:


> I resemble a depiction of glass of orange juice more than I look anything like that image.


Actually, based on your atavar, you look more like a cup of coffee than a glass of orange juice.
Mind you, a very intriguing cup of coffee, but a cup of coffee nonetheless.
 
-Rusty


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## olivefun (Feb 3, 2006)

I prefer my coffee to be strong and sweet...

(and thank you rusty)::eat2:


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## olivefun (Feb 3, 2006)

JerseyBigBoy said:


> I would rather date an average to below average looking woman whom I had fun with, shared laughter and enjoyed similar activities than a woman who was attractive but boring--or worse, unpleasant. I love to camp but you'll rarely if ever drag a high-maintenance girly girl out to the woods for a weekend. Years ago I dated a few "beautiful" women and twice I was involved in fights when other guys tried to swoop in. Both times, the girl seemed to like the attention. The older I get the more I value who the woman is over what she looks like.


 
I am amused by how rational sounding that is, Jersey Big Boy, as if there is a choice. 

The snake oil sellers would have no love potion to hawk. 
Just think of it. 

Actually, I don't really care about what other people think is attractive. I go out with men that I find attractive, and my taste is dreadfully unpredictable. 

I am certain many of us would rather dictate who we were attracted to. 

Many people would find their spouses more alluring for sure and not go trolling around for others, if they could pick out who to be attracted to. 

Think of how much easier things would be if we could decide who to fall in love with.. (OK I know i am off on a wild tangent...) 

You didn't talk about attraction, i realize, now that I read your post more clearly. You were talking about dating. 

Ok, I only date men that I want to be around. 

That is clearer.


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## JerseyBigBoy (Feb 4, 2006)

Hi OliveFun, 

I am sincere in what I wrote. I recently met a very funny, bright woman who is a BBW and I favor her over a non-BBW who is also funny, bright and equally successful. Doesn't a sense of humor matter? A comrade who you want to play with and get in trouble with? I understand foreplay, but the best foreplay is what you did before you hit the sheets. I find that many BBWs have terrific senses of humor and desire to be playful. A funny woman is very appealing to me and I have proabably laughed hardest with BBWs over slimmer women.


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## maxoutfa (Feb 4, 2006)

"One thing we share is an ideal of beauty. Treasure so rare it endevours my care" Brian Ferry.

I've been on just about all sides of all the sterotypes - been smitten by a girl's looks (or just the way she moves, or is poured into a dress) only to have my libido deflated the second she opens her mouth. Then there was my first relationship with a larger woman, which was based solely on her personality (this was back before I was even aware of my preference - during my teen years when the standard was that guys who went with fat girls were losers who couldn't "get" a cute girl). My relationship with her opened my eyes to prejudice and so many other things.

It's the eternal question - what causes attraction. Pheromones for sure - I have fond recollections of a lass who plain and simple rung my bell every time I got within 5 feet of her. I will cherish her to the day I die, but somehow always knew that she was not a day in and day out, better or worse kind of girl - our viewpoints on just about everything were so radically different - (but for a weekend, Zowie!!).

With my wife there was just something cosmic, and we both knew it from day one. I would scarce say that she was my physical ideal, and she just doesn't get my humour (or at least I think it's humour) being far too literal minded (which I get a great kick out of), but in the end, although sometimes life gets in the way, I couldn't think of anyone else I'd rather share lives with.

But way back when, when I was dating, looks played an important part, as shallow as that may sound. Face it, if you're trolling a bar you're going to approach someone who attracts you, and since you have to start somewhere, it's usually looks that do it - the color and style of hair, style of clothes, makeup, etc are all clues to the personality, and some combination of those, along with body type make the initial connection.

An important point in the paragraph above is that some of what may be attracting you in the first place, while visual, are indicators of a person's personality and can often tell you just as much about a person as a 15 minute conversation can.

So admitting to being attracted by a person's looks isn't really such a crime. You can oggle all you want, but any person with a reasonable acquaintance with his true self will end up with someone who satisfies him/her on more than just a visual level.


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## maxoutfa (Feb 4, 2006)

Les Toil said:


> my dear ol' mom has ALWAYS been insane for Nazi uniforms. YES!! She's looked at damn-near every Holocaust and WW2 documentary ever made and she knows the 3rd Reich were descendants of Hell and turns a shade or purple when she hears of these people that believe the Holocuast was a hoax, but she always jokes that seeing a Nazi in a Nazi uniform turns her on (especially if he was an officer with one of those long leather overcoats). LOL. I'm sensing not too many African-American women have THAT particular visual fantasy.




My sister-in-law just melted over Peter O'Toole playing a Nazi general in Night of The Generals - must have been those polished leather knee boots.


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## Michelle (Feb 4, 2006)

I have to disagree. I was in a phone relationship with the brother of a friend. I had never met him and we spoke every day by phone for eight months before we met in person. I really liked this guy and thought I might be in love. So we made plans to spend a week together (poor choice!).

The minute we looked at each other at the airport, everything evaporated for me. I still liked him, but there wasn't going to be a chance for anything more than friendship. He wasn't ugly. He wasn't repulsive. But there was absolutely no spark whatsoever for me and I knew right then it would go nowhere. And I had to tell him (very, very difficult week for me).

For me, there has to be that something indescribable. Sometimes it's there instantly and sometimes it develops, but it has to be there.



Moonchild said:


> Once you establish a mental connection the physical will follow. Your preferences otherwise don't matter because that person becomes the ideal. It doesn't matter what his body looks like as long as it is the body that belongs to him.
> 
> I speak from experience... but replace "him" with "her..."


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## Michelle (Feb 4, 2006)

If any man here thinks it's shallow, then he needs to rethink himself. He is here by the very fact that he's attracted to fat women, so I don't think you have to worry about many here thinking it's shallow. It's just something that is. Not sure what creates a "type" or how it evolves, and it doesn't necessarily always apply, but it's there. 




TraciJo67 said:


> I vehemently agree. Emphatically, even
> 
> An attraction has just got to be there for me - and not just an emotional connection, either (although that is also essential). I can find something endearing and beautiful in just about anyone -- but that doesn't mean that I'm going to be physically attracted to him.
> 
> Conventionally good looking men don't do much for me -- no matter how hot someone looks, if he knows it (and has the attending ego) I'm going to be really turned off. But I do have a 'type' - I find myself more attracted to tall, thin men. I don't think that I've ever felt a physical stirring for a man who is shorter than me, and I ::::shudder:::: at body-builder types. Yeah, some might think that's shallow; but that's OK with me. I can't change what I am and am not attracted to.


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## Michelle (Feb 4, 2006)

Wow, Fuzz. I started reading your post and hit the word "settle" and kinda shuddered. Maybe I'm hypersensitive to that word because I'm fat, but the word settle to me has really negative connotations. Then I read on and the second paragraph of your post is absolutely wonderful. One of the best paragraphs I've read on this board. Funny how one post gave me two, totally opposite, emotions. 




Fuzzy said:


> Firstly, I'd settle for anyone who would hold my hand, and walk with me, talk with me, look for shooting stars with me, and grow old with me.
> 
> How someone looks now will not be how they look when gray hairs and wrinkles appear. Makeup improves, but makeup also comes off at night. Illness and cancer treatment will make the hair fall out. Someone whose depressed and blue, and the same person laughing and happy can be for some a night and day difference. Physical attraction is one thing, but more important is how they feel, act, and love. If you want to know someone's character, see how they treat the waitress, or their cat, or their mom.


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