# You Know You've Been in the Fat Community a Long Time When...



## superodalisque (Sep 15, 2013)

Time for some fun over here. 


When thin people's bodies start looking strange and alien like to us because we've been looking at fat folk so much.


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## CastingPearls (Sep 15, 2013)

When there is absolutely no doubt in your mind and actions when someone (whether thin or fat) says something derogatory about fat people and you know it's THEIR problem, THEIR hang-up, and THEIR loss.


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## CleverBomb (Sep 16, 2013)

When your term paper on "how my city is fighting the obesity epidemic" gets complicated by the realization that obesity in and of itself isn't the real problem.


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## Oldtimer76 (Sep 16, 2013)

When you clearly remember the old Dimensions Forum in yellow and orange...


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## Tad (Sep 16, 2013)

When youve been watching societal attitudes around fat issues from a size acceptance perspective (rather than a more personal one) for long enough to really see changes happening. 

Also when you realize that there people posting on these boards who were in diapers when those first discussions startedIIRC correctly it was late in 1996 when the BBWQT site started hosting a message board, which was eventually picked up by Conrad when the original webmistress couldnt support it anymore. In other words, when there are people taking part in the size acceptance community for whom the community has never been more than a click away. I think that is something pretty fundamental, that in really formative years you knew there were people who thought it was OK to be the way you are, instead of being more isolated.


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## loopytheone (Sep 16, 2013)

Tad said:


> Also when you realize that there people posting on these boards who were in diapers when those first discussions startedIIRC correctly it was late in 1996 when the BBWQT site started hosting a message board, which was eventually picked up by Conrad when the original webmistress couldnt support it anymore. In other words, when there are people taking part in the size acceptance community for whom the community has never been more than a click away. I think that is something pretty fundamental, that in really formative years you knew there were people who thought it was OK to be the way you are, instead of being more isolated.



As somebody who was born in 1990 I guess this applies to me. But I only found the size acceptance community after I left university so I think that there is a long way to go before people can say they grew up with access to sites such as these. It is a start though and certainly more well known now than when I was younger. As a youngster I used to think I was the only person who found bigger people attractive as despite all my various related web searches no size acceptance websites or forums ever came up.


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## superodalisque (Sep 16, 2013)

when you remember buying size acceptance paper mags at 13


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## EtobicokeFA (Sep 16, 2013)

When you remember getting the dimensions magazine in the mail.


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## CastingPearls (Sep 17, 2013)

When a post upthread read, 'I was born in 1990' and I thought, 'What was I doing in 1990?' and remembered I was a plus size fashion model and even appeared on TV in a style segment. Good times and wow, that's a long time!


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## superodalisque (Sep 17, 2013)

CastingPearls said:


> When a post upthread read, 'I was born in 1990' and I thought, 'What was I doing in 1990?' and remembered I was a plus size fashion model and even appeared on TV in a style segment. Good times and wow, that's a long time!



yep. it was before you could google BBW and all you got was porn lol.it was actually feminist at some point.

let me formalize my point:

you know you've been around the movement for a long time when you can remember when it wasn't mainly about porn.


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## bigmac (Sep 17, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> yep. it was before you could google BBW and all you got was porn lol.it was actually feminist at some point.
> 
> let me formalize my point:
> 
> you know you've been around the movement for a long time when you can *remember when it wasn't mainly about porn*.




The market has spoken -- guys like images of naked woman. Also, lets not put our heads in the sand -- BBW events back in the 90s were way more risque than today's larger but tamer events (people were hooking up all over the place -- fond memories).

Also, since when is open sexuality anti-feminist?


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## superodalisque (Sep 18, 2013)

bigmac said:


> The market has spoken -- guys like images of naked woman. Also, lets not put our heads in the sand -- BBW events back in the 90s were way more risque than today's larger but tamer events (people were hooking up all over the place -- fond memories).
> 
> Also, since when is open sexuality anti-feminist?



a huge amount of fat folk actually don't care what guys who watch porn want when it comes to sex. some are men . some are lesbians. some are women not desperate for that attention because they can have real sex or don't sell sex as their job. most women actually do not exist in porn. they have real lives as do other fat folk.

there are a whole lot of other issues for fat folk to consider. once upon a time that was common knowledge. it has nothing to do with feminism, just that there are sometimes people involved who are socially out of step and think porn is actually the real life of all fat folk at all times.

yep they were more risque because unfortunately people felt more desperate than they do now since people are a whole lot more exposed to the reality of being a fat person and being attractive to a much larger cross section than they thought before. thank god for fat folks there are no more of those warped 50 to 1 ratio dances that caused it.


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## bigmac (Sep 18, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> a huge amount of fat folk actually don't care what guys who watch porn want when it comes to sex. some are men . some are lesbians. some are women not desperate for that attention because *they can have real sex or don't sell sex as their job*. most women actually do not exist in porn. they have real lives as do other fat folk.
> 
> there are a whole lot of other issues for fat folk to consider. once upon a time that was common knowledge. it has nothing to do with feminism, just that there are sometimes people involved who are socially out of step and *think porn is actually the real life* of all fat folk at all times.
> 
> yep they were more risque because *unfortunately people felt more desperate than they do now* since people are a whole lot more exposed to the reality of being a fat person and being attractive to a much larger cross section than they thought before. thank god for fat folks there are no more of those warped 50 to 1 ratio dances that caused it.



Anti-sex bias showing again:

-- sex workers don't have personal lives

-- guys who look at porn are delusional

-- only desperate women have active sex lives.


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## bigmac (Sep 18, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> ...
> 
> yep they were more risque because unfortunately people felt more desperate than they do now since people are a whole lot more exposed to the reality of being a fat person and being attractive to a much larger cross section than they thought before. thank god for fat folks there are no more of those warped 50 to 1 ratio dances that caused it.



50-1 really? 3-1 yes, 4-1 on a really bad night, but lets get real. There was always enough guys at the events I attended to keep the dance floor full. The big difference is that there was a much greater feeling of community back then. People went out of their way to meet new people and interact with people outside their clique. When people mingle sparks happen.


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## Miskatonic (Sep 18, 2013)

To be fair a lot of guys who have chronic porn habits do begin to blur the line between real sex and porn sex in their minds. It sure as hell happened to me at the height of my porn addiction.

I know I've been in the community a long time because I can remember the golden age of fat porn communities on Livejournal.

God I miss Livejournal


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## superodalisque (Sep 18, 2013)

bigmac said:


> 50-1 really? 3-1 yes, 4-1 on a really bad night, but lets get real. There was always enough guys at the events I attended to keep the dance floor full. The big difference is that there was a much greater feeling of community back then. People went out of their way to meet new people and interact with people outside their clique. When people mingle sparks happen.



maybe you need to go back and read the posts of the people who actually started the dances way back when


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## superodalisque (Sep 18, 2013)

bigmac said:


> Anti-sex bias showing again:
> 
> -- sex workers don't have personal lives
> 
> ...



i'm not anti sex. i'm anti silliness. there is something pretty goofy about thinking that all fat folk have to relate to in life all of the time are porn sites . good lord lol. it's time to get off the internet crack pipe and meet real fat folk on the street.


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## superodalisque (Sep 18, 2013)

um the fat community does not consist totally of porn


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## bigmac (Sep 18, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> maybe you need to go back and read the posts of the people who actually started the dances way back when



I'm actually friends with some of those people. My old time BBW experience in from the west coast and the northeast. Things may have been different in the south.


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## bigmac (Sep 18, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> i'm not anti sex. i'm anti silliness. there is something pretty goofy about thinking that all fat folk have to relate to in life all of the time are porn sites . good lord lol. *it's time to get off the internet crack pipe and meet real fat folk on the street*.



I agree. My point is that people actually did meet, interact, and sometimes hookup a lot more at old school BBW events. The internet is great for getting people in touch with one another but at some point (the sooner the better in my view) you have to actually meet in person face to face.


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## KHayes666 (Sep 18, 2013)

New Dimensions members were 8-10 years old when I first found Dimensions in high school


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## HereticFA (Sep 19, 2013)

... the first local NAAFA chapter event I attended in 1983 was the result of an article I read about NAAFA in _Penthouse Forum_ magazine in 1978. (Eight years before the Internet was opened to public use and ten years before the first web browser, _Mosaic_, was released. And six years after I soldered together my first computer. Jeez, I am a geezer.)


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## HereticFA (Sep 19, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> you know you've been around the movement for a long time when you can remember when it wasn't mainly about porn.



Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Maybe that was the apparent view from the distance, but inside - the majority of allegiances were drawn across bedroom lines. (Maybe not porn but certainly sexuality.)

Even at the chapter level, when I held various chapter events we'd usually have the same eight to twelve folks show up. The one time I had a forum on fat sexuality I had thirty six show up. Naah, obviously _no one_ has an interest in fat sexuality over more important topics like employment or healthcare. <snicker>


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## Tracyarts (Sep 19, 2013)

" Even at the chapter level, when I held various chapter events we'd usually have the same eight to twelve folks show up. The one time I had a forum on fat sexuality I had thirty six show up. Naah, obviously no one has an interest in fat sexuality over more important topics like employment or healthcare. "

I noticed similar things when I was involved in my local NAAFA chapter. The same core group of regulars at the meetings, but dances and parties drew a crowd. Which well they should, socializing is important for our well-being. But so are the challenges of day-to-day life in a society that doesn't bend over backwards to be accepting and accomodating of fat people. 

The one thing that still leaves me massively butt-hurt to this day had to do with my getting involved with the local public access tv station. In a city of over 2 million people, this meant many thousands of viewers. In a city which was notorious for being named one of the "fattest cities in the nation" this meant many thousands of fat viewers. I went through the internship program and learned how to use all the taping and editing equipment. I did my volunteer hours at the station and earned the right to produce and schedule my own content. People in the local NAAFA chapter were excited about it so I wrote my proposal for a fat-issues related show and submitted it to the powers that be. They liked the idea and approved my grant. I had the equipment, the studio, the tapes, the editing time, and a place on the broadcast schedule. And since it was my grant and my project, there was no chance that somebody could put a negative spin on it or turn it into a low-budget tabloid talk show fiasco. But when it came down to it, nobody wanted to actually go on camera and film the show. I had to turn my grant back in and the opportunity was lost. How sad was that? The fourth largest city in the nation was handed the opportunity to have a fat-issues related television show on a silver platter that WE would have total control over, and nobody was willing to make it happen. 

But throw a dance in a hotel and people would come out of the woodwork for that shit.

Tracy


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## big_gurl_lvr (Sep 19, 2013)

You remeber you waited age using dial-up to see first size acceptance sites... and they were not about porn they were more about showing prettiness and tasty side of large ladies... And Dims were place where you actually learnt that you are an FA and it's nothing wrong with it


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## superodalisque (Sep 19, 2013)

bigmac said:


> I'm actually friends with some of those people. My old time BBW experience in from the west coast and the northeast. Things may have been different in the south.



not the south. go back and read posts.


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## superodalisque (Sep 19, 2013)

HereticFA said:


> Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
> 
> Maybe that was the apparent view from the distance, but inside - the majority of allegiances were drawn across bedroom lines. (Maybe not porn but certainly sexuality.)
> 
> Even at the chapter level, when I held various chapter events we'd usually have the same eight to twelve folks show up. The one time I had a forum on fat sexuality I had thirty six show up. Naah, obviously _no one_ has an interest in fat sexuality over more important topics like employment or healthcare. <snicker>



yes it was extremely different from a distance. when i was a girl the general impression was it was a movement about pride and respect for yourself since that was all we saw on t.v. and read about in the magazines. to coin an old phrase we knew nothing about the gnarly goings on behind the scenes. the people i knew were not at the center of any national fat movement. we had little groups start up where i lived but they weren't associated with NAAFA or anything like that, but there were a lot of them. none of them had any male members at all.

i lived in the south and being fat for most of us wasn't as big of an external issue and still isn't. we spent very little time complaining or worrying about our size. we ate a lot, laughed a lot and played a lot. you don't have strong BBW clubs etc... down here for hooking up purposes. there is really no need for them. people have always dated fat folks out in the open. most fat women you see down here will be married engaged or in relationships no matter their age. nobody blinks. people hardly thought about guys being fat at all.

for sure it wasn't considered acceptable to go around abusing people for being fat back then where i grew up. southerners have/had a strong sense of honor and violence attached. if you harassed or even made comments about the body of someone's friend mother sister cousin gf or even classmate you had to be prepared to pay a price. a fat guy would just beat you up or shoot you or something. so for the most part people kept quiet because no one was going to just take it off of them. this is not just black culture i'm talking about either. one thing i do like about my south is that people can be very nice but they really don't take a lot of crap off people either. 

the south had/has a general love of food. fat guys in the south in the very old days were viewed as wealthy and powerful because they had the cash to eat well. there was also decorum in the south when it came to male female relationships so whatever men thought about your body they kept it to themselves. i think that is why even today you're more likely to find fat southern women who haven't been harassed to death and feel a bit better about themselves. so some of the stigma that people have elsewhere was blunted where i grew up. most dated and had bfs and gfs etc... i don't even think it came up as much of a question.

our groups were more about practical stuff like finding pretty clothes that fit or bikes with comfy seats. there was also not so much sickness associated with being fat probably because we were very active and very young. we played tennis went camping and did other things. many of us were on the volleyball and basketball teams at our school. i could beat some of my slower thin male classmates running track. we had D&D camping trips. we didn't just play sitting around in someone's dark basement or hunched over a computer screen and hardly meeting the people we played with IRL. we talked to each other every day. we went somewhere and did something every weekend. but everybody spent way more time outside actually doing things in those days. BBW mag helped to facilitate people in our area who wanted to meet and form groups to do things together.

it was a whole different animal for what evidently went on nationally thank goodness. i really think i dodged a bullet not knowing about all of that stuff back then. unfortunately the fact that so many fat folk who were on the periphery still have a very positive image of what the community appeared to be from a distance back then is really due to them never having much close contact. sad to think all of that positivism could have become a big joke like that CSI parody of the vegas bash where a fat woman smothered a guy who was catting around with all of the other desperate fat girls. i'm glad that at the time there was no fall out due to the media having access to things that inspired those kinds of ideas.


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## Make_Lunch_Not_War (Sep 20, 2013)

when a young BBW asks you, "What's BBW? :doh:

(Yes, it actually happened to me. Twice)


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## vardon_grip (Sep 20, 2013)

HereticFA said:


> ...
> Maybe that was the apparent view from the distance, but inside - the majority of allegiances were drawn across bedroom lines. (Maybe not porn but certainly sexuality.)



Porn and a (fat) persons sexuality are not the same. Yes, a lot of people enjoy their sexuality and their porn, but only a few confuse the two of them.


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## EtobicokeFA (Sep 21, 2013)

vardon_grip said:


> ....&hellip;only a few confuse the two of them.



I guess you have not meet many bible thumpers then!


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## Dr. Feelgood (Sep 21, 2013)

vardon_grip said:


> Porn and a (fat) persons sexuality are not the same. Yes, a lot of people enjoy their sexuality and their porn, but only a few confuse the two of them.





EtobicokeFA said:


> I guess you have not meet many bible thumpers then!



In Los Angeles? That's where most Okies go when they die (the good ones go to Branson). My guess is that Vardon Grip has been vaccinated against them.


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## superodalisque (Sep 21, 2013)

vardon_grip said:


> Porn and a (fat) persons sexuality are not the same. Yes, a lot of people enjoy their sexuality and their porn, but only a few confuse the two of them.



not to mention porn and a fat person's entire _ LIFE_


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## vardon_grip (Sep 21, 2013)

EtobicokeFA said:


> I guess you have not meet many bible thumpers then!



They don't confuse their porn and their sexuality...they are outright hypocrites about both.


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## moonvine (Sep 22, 2013)

bigmac said:


> -- only desperate women have active sex lives.



In my opinion, there's a big difference between "active" and 'healthy."


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## bigmac (Sep 22, 2013)

moonvine said:


> In my opinion, there's a big difference between "active" and 'healthy."



Perhaps sometimes but who are we to judge. I have one female friend whose had over 100 sex partners. She's not a victim and she's far from desperate. IMHO she has a perfectly healthy sex life.


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## superodalisque (Sep 22, 2013)

bigmac said:


> Perhaps sometimes but who are we to judge. I have one female friend whose had over 100 sex partners. She's not a victim and she's far from desperate. IMHO she has a perfectly healthy sex life.



i feel so sorry that for some people that your idea of a fat community is limited to this. proof positive of old timers disease since a whole lot more of the new kids on the block seem to already know there is a whole lot more to it. RIP dead ideas.


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## bigmac (Sep 22, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> i feel so sorry that for some people that your idea of a fat community is limited to this. proof positive of old timers disease since a whole lot more of the new kids on the block seem to already know there is a whole lot more to it. RIP dead ideas.



Yes, because we all know that women who actually enjoy and engage in sex cannot possibly participate in any other facet of the community.


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## Russell Williams (Sep 22, 2013)

bigmac said:


> I'm actually friends with some of those people. My old time BBW experience in from the west coast and the northeast. Things may have been different in the south.



since Louise was very active NAAFA and size acceptance movement in general for at least 25 years in the Bay Area


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## wrestlingguy (Sep 22, 2013)

bigmac said:


> Yes, because we all know that women who actually enjoy and engage in sex cannot possibly participate in any other facet of the community.



No one is saying that it's impossible, but I would have to say that I think it would be difficult, not because of the judgmental issues of others, but for one's own stilted view of the community, and how they view their personal importance in it. For many, sex has everything to do with that.

Back in December of 2011, I wrote a blog called "Some Differences". It discusses a BBW webmodel that to me, lost herself in the hoopla of admiration and objectification. I'm going to post part of the blog here, as it relates to the issue being discussed. In her case, she was around the community too long because she began to believe the hype about herself and her modeling, IMO.



> Over the past year or so, Ive been criticized for being far too negative about the fat community. Ive been told that the people in the community have spent most of their lives facing negativity, and that the idea of someone from within doing the same thing is hurtful and insulting.
> 
> I havent lost any sleep over that yet.
> 
> ...


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## superodalisque (Sep 22, 2013)

bigmac said:


> Yes, because we all know that women who actually enjoy and engage in sex cannot possibly participate in any other facet of the community.



or is it because people find it odd that the only idea people can find to come up with when the fat community is discussed is how much and how often a fat _woman_ can have sex? it's a lot more than that. her vagina is her own business. she can have sex as much and as little as she likes as a fat woman. the community has a lot more fishes to fry than _anyone's_ personal opinion about who and how many people she chooses to sleep with. IMO it's this very high schoolization of our sexuality and gossipy factor that the community really does not need. as far as i'm concerned she is fine and doesn't need anyone in her business that way but i'm certain she would be pleased to have us all on her side if she faced prejudice of any kind and would like it if we made it our business to help her. and the lack of focus on how we could help her in any way that would actually be meaningful to her life is exactly where your kind of focus on telling and examining her personal business as though anyone has a right leads us.


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## moonvine (Sep 25, 2013)

bigmac said:


> Yes, because we all know that women who actually enjoy and engage in sex cannot possibly participate in any other facet of the community.



It is perfectly possible to enjoy and engage in sex without having 100 partners. I enjoy and engage in the hell out of some sex with one partner. 

While it certainly may not apply to your friend, all the fat events I have attended have reeked of quiet desperation, as have the MENSA events I have attended, but at least at the MENSA events the desperation isn't quite so. one-sided. 

I remember one fat dance I went to at which I sat and a guy bought me several beers without me even giving him a blow job. Many women there were quite astonished.:doh:

It is fine with me if someone wants to go somewhere and blow every guy in the joint. What bothers me is when it is *expected*. There were famously some "pool parties" in an area I once lived which consisted of men sitting on the edge of a pool and women swimming up between their legs to service them. I have never been in any sort of thin dating community but wonder if such things occur without at least some sort of reciprocity occurring. I will ask some of my boyfriends friends who don't have as good taste in women as he does if they have ever attended such a "pool party" but I am willing to bet such things would happen only in their dreams.


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## superodalisque (Sep 26, 2013)

moonvine said:


> It is perfectly possible to enjoy and engage in sex without having 100 partners. I enjoy and engage in the hell out of some sex with one partner.
> 
> While it certainly may not apply to your friend, all the fat events I have attended have reeked of quiet desperation, as have the MENSA events I have attended, but at least at the MENSA events the desperation isn't quite so. one-sided.
> 
> ...



i've seen similar. it's more desperation than healthiness in situations like that. especially when the people involved cry on your shoulder after--definitely not healthy.


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## Never2fat4me (Sep 26, 2013)

... you found out that there were other men out there who liked BBWs in a magazine and there was no online community to talk about it with because there was no internet (at least not like today).

- Chris


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## bigmac (Sep 26, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> i feel so sorry that for some people that your idea of a fat community is limited to this. proof positive of old timers disease since a whole lot more of the new kids on the block seem to already know there is a whole lot more to it. RIP dead ideas.



For most people BBW events were and are social not political occasions. Indeed most of the BBW events I've attended were solely social (e.g. Big Difference dances in LA). I haven't gone to any events for several years, however, I noticed a big change from 1995 to 2005. In the mid 90s local BBW events were attended by very diverse groups of people. Over the proceeding ten years as BBW events came to resemble low-class clubs many people stopped going -- predictably the clientele came to be mostly party girls and players.

Thus I'm not sure who these _new kids on the block_ you're talking about are.


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## bigmac (Sep 27, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> i've seen similar. it's more desperation than healthiness in situations like that. especially when the people involved cry on your shoulder after--definitely not healthy.




I've had my share of people crying on my shoulder. Almost universally it was because they made some very unreasonable assumptions. One night between the sheets doesn't mean you're now going steady -- sex is just sex.


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## superodalisque (Sep 27, 2013)

bigmac said:


> For most people BBW events were and are social not political occasions. Indeed most of the BBW events I've attended were solely social (e.g. Big Difference dances in LA). I haven't gone to any events for several years, however, I noticed a big change from 1995 to 2005. In the mid 90s local BBW events were attended by very diverse groups of people. Over the proceeding ten years as BBW events came to resemble low-class clubs many people stopped going -- predictably the clientele came to be mostly party girls and players.
> 
> Thus I'm not sure who these _new kids on the block_ you're talking about are.



we weren't talking about just BBW events we were talking about the fat community and there is a lot more to it than just dances.


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## superodalisque (Sep 27, 2013)

bigmac said:


> I've had my share of people crying on my shoulder. Almost universally it was because they made some very unreasonable assumptions. One night between the sheets doesn't mean you're now going steady -- sex is just sex.



exactly, which is why Moonvine was saying that more doesn't necessarily make it healthy for people. what you've related is often the case. that's not a healthy sex life. a truly health sex life doesn't leave you miserable.


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## bigmac (Sep 28, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> exactly, which is why Moonvine was saying that more doesn't necessarily make it healthy for people. what you've related is often the case. that's not a healthy sex life. a truly health sex life doesn't leave you miserable.



Again with the anti-sex bias.


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## superodalisque (Sep 28, 2013)

bigmac said:


> Again with the anti-sex bias.



how is it anti sex to say the sex that actually makes you happy is healthy? you are still confusing fat rights for fat folk of all sexes with one fat woman's vagina.


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## BigCutieLaurel (Sep 28, 2013)

CastingPearls said:


> When there is absolutely no doubt in your mind and actions when someone (whether thin or fat) says something derogatory about fat people and you know it's THEIR problem, THEIR hang-up, and THEIR loss.



I've not long realised this. It's an amazing revelation to have!


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## BigCutieLaurel (Sep 28, 2013)

I didn't read through the whole thread before I posted, so I'm going to go ahead and post again. Firstly, I'm a noobie to the BBW/Fat Acceptance movement so my opinion probably isn't worth much. Also, I'm a wife and dedicated monogamous partner to my husband. That being said. I have no problem with people BBW or FA or anyone having sex as many times and with as many people as they want as long as they're happy. Although I'm sure everyone means well in this thread some posts seem almost on the verge of slut-shaming and I think this particular community gets enough judgement from the outside world without us adding to it. Live and let live. Some people are here for the community, some people are here for the more fetishized part of it, others for both. I personally have no problem with anyone as long as they're behaving themselves.

If I've misread things/gotten confused. I apologise. And as I said, I'm pretty new here so I'm still getting a handle on how this site works =)


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## superodalisque (Sep 28, 2013)

Tahlia said:


> I didn't read through the whole thread before I posted, so I'm going to go ahead and post again. Firstly, I'm a noobie to the BBW/Fat Acceptance movement so my opinion probably isn't worth much. Also, I'm a wife and dedicated monogamous partner to my husband. That being said. I have no problem with people BBW or FA or anyone having sex as many times and with as many people as they want as long as they're happy. Although I'm sure everyone means well in this thread some posts seem almost on the verge of slut-shaming and I think this particular community gets enough judgement from the outside world without us adding to it. Live and let live. Some people are here for the community, some people are here for the more fetishized part of it, others for both. I personally have no problem with anyone as long as they're behaving themselves.
> 
> If I've misread things/gotten confused. I apologise. And as I said, I'm pretty new here so I'm still getting a handle on how this site works =)



i think it's the "as long as they're happy" part we're after here  and the fact that fat women being able to have lots of sex is not the whole goal and focus of the entire fat community. it's also not the complete determinant of fat well being. what about fat men, fat children, bullying, the politics of fat health access and to medical care etc...that it's also concerned with? does the fat community start and end totally on a fat woman's vagina? do we limit the focus of the fat community because there are some who aren't interested in the politics at all. do we orient the entire fat community as though every person in it can only be interested in fat folk sexually and aren't at all interested in any of the challenges they may have?


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## bigmac (Sep 29, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> we weren't talking about just BBW events we were talking about the fat community and there is a lot more to it than just dances.




Its been my experience that most people who engage with the "fat community" do so for social purposes. Only a very very small minority ever get involved in activist activities. This shouldn't be surprising as the social sphere has historically been the area where fat people struggled most. This isn't a bad thing since as fat people gain greater acceptance socially many of the other issues associated with being fat dissipate.


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## bigmac (Sep 29, 2013)

Tahlia said:


> I didn't read through the whole thread before I posted, so I'm going to go ahead and post again. Firstly, I'm a noobie to the BBW/Fat Acceptance movement so my opinion probably isn't worth much. Also, I'm a wife and dedicated monogamous partner to my husband. That being said. I have no problem with people BBW or FA or anyone having sex as many times and with as many people as they want as long as they're happy. Although I'm sure everyone means well in this thread *some posts seem almost on the verge of slut-shaming* and I think this particular community gets enough judgement from the outside world without us adding to it. Live and let live. Some people are here for the community, some people are here for the more fetishized part of it, others for both. I personally have no problem with anyone as long as they're behaving themselves.
> 
> If I've misread things/gotten confused. I apologise. And as I said, I'm pretty new here so I'm still getting a handle on how this site works =)




You're not misreading anything. Several people here seem to assume that people with active sex lives cannot possibly be happy, are desperate, and should not be taken seriously as people. This isn't surprising since many Americans have serious hangups regarding sex.

My friend whose story instigated the latest round of slut-shaming is not an American and is not the least bit ashamed of her sexual history. The fact that American and British missionaries played a big role in destroying her people's culture is relevant since she actively rejects all they forced on her people.


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## superodalisque (Sep 29, 2013)

bigmac said:


> Its been my experience that most people who engage with the "fat community" do so for social purposes. Only a very very small minority ever get involved in activist activities. This shouldn't be surprising as the social sphere has historically been the area where fat people struggled most. This isn't a bad thing since as fat people gain greater acceptance socially many of the other issues associated with being fat dissipate.



i don't think so. for instance i belong to a lot of facebook groups composed of actual dims members who were very active in the past whose numbers in total far outstrip those of the active paysite board by a huge amount. and that isn't even counting the new people those groups bring in who could be directed here. i know of other venues that are facing the same. the numbers of people who've left now on sites that have activistic conversations and at least some activity about fat politics and some have had very positive events that actually accomplish something. and if you think the don't have a social life you are wrong. the're just having them with people they feel safer with or that they feel have more integrity. accomplishment is a great binder between people as long as you don't ride on old ones at the expense of having new ones. i think dims has also seen a huge outflow to those groups and that is when the forums became echoing halls compared to what they used to be.

a lot of fat people also dodged some portions of the fat community altogether--because some aspects of it are not socially conscious or even respectful of fat people. that can be very unattractive especially if the purport to support fat folk and that is what they use to draw people in. some people recognize bullshit from the get go. a lot of people recognize that fat folk having to be highly sexual to prove their confidence is a big load of sheisse just like it is when pretty young thin girls are told the same. it's just another way of taking sexual advantage to either see pix or to get laid. it's just the fat chapter in the book on gamesmanship.

sure people like to socialize but when the activistic mentality is smothered as a sacrifice to a fantasy mentality then people leave. all of those venues that depended on activism as a draw but only talk a little of the talk and don't walk any of the walk aren't doing so well anymore. after a point most people are not going to continue hanging around people with narrow interests who think fat rights are just about what they get to do on saturday night and whether someone finds them sexually attractive. that would retard their growth as a person so huge numbers of people just outgrow the place. that's a big loss of customers if that s what the aim is especially when activism could actually draw more people and create more customers. so i guess that mentality isn't even about a business. it is about a personal philosophy of the place of fat people in society that eventually becomes unattractive to fat folk.

a lot of people like a point to their social connections as well. and they definitely do not want to be mixing with people who aren't making an effort and aren't willing to try and understand them especially when the group is said to be centered around acceptance and support. they may as well continue on in the outside world if they have to resort to just accepting another paradigm that also does not bring much that is positive into their lives. 

when fat folk are new to it a lot of people are very excited by all of the attention just like when other young people discover the bar scene. until they figure out that just any attention is not necessarily good attention. when people grow up they get tired of purposefulless exercises. if it has a concrete purpose and just not the veneer it has a chance of remaining dynamic. even though bashes dances etc... can be an important part of the growth dynamic.

however it's important to note that bashes and dances aren't the entire world at all just like bars are not the entire world for other people unless they are oddly developmentally stuck somehow. at some point fat folk like young folk realize that sexual viability for a night or a weekend is not such a big deal. life is about who is actually in your corner and not somebody who just wants to scratch their itch with you. that isn't often the same thing. any person can do that. fat people are not exempt from being sexual objects no matter what society says. anyone trying to tell a fat person that is just as bad as the prejudice media because even numbers prove that isn't true. it's sad when people who are supposed to be on your side are spouting the same thing at you that diet aid salesmen say. 

i like an other fat woman ( i can't speak for fat men) can go outside of my door and find some guy who'll have sex with me in the time it takes me to find a guy who is not impotent and so can any other fat woman. i think the dances can help people to understand that which is good it helps fat folk to see that overall just getting laid but is not that important. there are groups centered around health, employment, social justice, and a lot of other issues. young people start to notice that if they already haven't. they also begin to notice who takes part and who poo poo the points of such discussions and can concentrate only having their own fantasies fulfilled. it's very telling when it comes to figuring out who is really behind you and who isn't. the problem some aspects of the fat community is having is that they depend on new and unexposed member because they are the ones who aren't fully exposed to the ramifications of certain kinds of psychology evident in some groups. but if you are always depending on ignorance to power your group that is a big problem.


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## moonvine (Sep 29, 2013)

Tahlia said:


> I didn't read through the whole thread before I posted, so I'm going to go ahead and post again. Firstly, I'm a noobie to the BBW/Fat Acceptance movement so my opinion probably isn't worth much. Also, I'm a wife and dedicated monogamous partner to my husband. That being said. I have no problem with people BBW or FA or anyone having sex as many times and with as many people as they want as long as they're happy. Although I'm sure everyone means well in this thread some posts seem almost on the verge of slut-shaming and I think this particular community gets enough judgement from the outside world without us adding to it. Live and let live. Some people are here for the community, some people are here for the more fetishized part of it, others for both. I personally have no problem with anyone as long as they're behaving themselves.
> 
> If I've misread things/gotten confused. I apologise. And as I said, I'm pretty new here so I'm still getting a handle on how this site works =)



Hi there and welcome to the site,

I don't mean to slut shame at all. I'm pretty sure superodalisque and I are concerned with the "as long as they are happy" part. I have been to many different types of conventions in my time on this planet, and have only seen/felt the desperation at 2 of them. MENSA and BBW. That doesn't mean I think fat or smart people are less worthy of love. But a certain portion of those populations think they are less worthy of love and have to settle for sex if they can get it. That doesn't mean all of them and that's why I said "a certain portion."


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## bigmac (Sep 30, 2013)

moonvine said:


> Hi there and welcome to the site,
> 
> I don't mean to slut shame at all. I'm pretty sure superodalisque and I are concerned with the "as long as they are happy" part. I have been to many different types of conventions in my time on this planet, and have only seen/felt the desperation at 2 of them. MENSA and BBW. That doesn't mean I think fat or smart people are less worthy of love. *But a certain portion of those populations think they are less worthy of love and have to settle for sex if they can get it. *That doesn't mean all of them and that's why I said "a certain portion."



Your words connote a bias -- people "*settle* for sex". Your assumption being that people who "*settle* for sex" are pathetic self-hating creatures forced to find some measure of solace in what you clearly consider second class casual relationships.


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## moonvine (Sep 30, 2013)

bigmac said:


> Your words connote a bias -- people "*settle* for sex". Your assumption being that people who "*settle* for sex" are pathetic self-hating creatures forced to find some measure of solace in what you clearly consider second class casual relationships.



If someone *wants* a committed monogamous relationship, and instead engages in a casual relationship, isn't "settling" in fact what they are doing? If I go to a restaurant and want fish and they are out and I order steak instead, am I not "settling" for steak? That doesn't mean steak is less valuable than fish, it means I wanted fish. If they *WANT* casual relationships, that's a whole different matter. I know many people, both male and female, who want casual relationships and are happy with the relationships they form, and I say good for them.


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## superodalisque (Sep 30, 2013)

and this is exactly why thinking the whole fat community even cares about this all that much is a problem. all of this crotch centered stuff is an internal distraction from what fat people really need--which is to live in a society where being fat in and of itself doesn't make them feel like a pariah. sexual politics has nothing to do with being fat. it has to do with being human. last time i looked fat people were human and have the same sexual issues as thin people. it's time to stop making ourselves into some kind of a third sex instead of discussing ALL of the issues that fat folk have instead of just one that really isn't weight specific at all.


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## wrestlingguy (Sep 30, 2013)

Again, from my past experience running social events for the plus sized world.

I can't tell you how many times I watched women who were actively seeking relationships ended up at my events with guys who I knew were there for anything BUT a relationship, thinking that she would be different, and it would turn into more than a one night stand. I would watch them in the early morning doing the "walk of shame" (I didn't invent the term, but it is appropriate here) back to their rooms, thinking they'd meet said guy for breakfast, only to find out he'd already checked out of the hotel to be anywhere BUT.

I believe that both SuperO and Moonvine hit the nail on the head in their most recent posts.

Being attracted to someone should be a simple thing. Turning it into a sexually charged cult, where the players involve live event to event or hookup to hookup has nothing to do with size acceptance at all. In my opinion, it's just the opposite, since the rejection of one of the players can do nothing to elevate one's sense of self worth.

That's one of the reasons I blog, an support size acceptance activities by working for them, and financially. I think that ensuring that the rest of the world treat fat people with respect (the goal of fat acceptance) will elevate people to a point where the decisions to have sex, or be in a relationship will end up as mutual decisions between those involved.


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## bigmac (Sep 30, 2013)

wrestlingguy said:


> Again, from my past experience running social events for the plus sized world.
> 
> I can't tell you how many times I watched women who were actively seeking relationships ended up at my events with guys who I knew were there for anything BUT a relationship, thinking that she would be different, and it would turn into more than a one night stand. I would watch them in the early morning doing the "walk of shame" (I didn't invent the term, but it is appropriate here) back to their rooms, thinking they'd meet said guy for breakfast, only to find out he'd already checked out of the hotel to be anywhere BUT.
> 
> ...



Sorry but if you're looking for a meaningful relationship at a BBW club or BBW bash you're looking in the wrong place. If you go to a club or bash and think you're going to change some bad boy's ways you're downright delusional.

If these women had a healthier attitude about sex they wouldn't be crying on peoples' shoulders the next day. I know lots of women who go to these events get all their drinks paid for -- hookup if they choose -- and walk back to their room or car without one bit of shame.


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## superodalisque (Sep 30, 2013)

bigmac said:


> Sorry but if you're looking for a meaningful relationship at a BBW club or BBW bash you're looking in the wrong place. If you go to a club or bash and think you're going to change some bad boy's ways you're downright delusional.
> 
> If these women had a healthier attitude about sex they wouldn't be crying on peoples' shoulders the next day. I know lots of women who go to these events get all their drinks paid for -- hookup if they choose -- and walk back to their room or car without one bit of shame.



and this is so important to size acceptance because...?


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## bigmac (Sep 30, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> our point is you're making bashes and dances meaningful to size acceptance which the are not unless some actual activism happens there. if whatever someone is doing in their sex life is making them unhappy then the situation isn't healthy. thank you for making our point.



First, most people in the community are not activists (or even interested in activism).

Second, IMHO its not what people are or are not doing in their sex lives that is making them unhappy. Its their puritanical attitude that's making them unhappy. They're going to be just as unhappy if they're celibate.


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## superodalisque (Sep 30, 2013)

bigmac said:


> First, most people in the community are not activists (or even interested in activism).
> 
> Second, IMHO its not what people are or are not doing in their sex lives that is making them unhappy. Its their puritanical attitude that's making them unhappy. They're going to be just as unhappy if they're celibate.



how do you know that? where do you get your information or is that just your opinion?

who said anything about celibacy? your argument is making less and less sense all of the time.


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## wrestlingguy (Sep 30, 2013)

bigmac said:


> Sorry but if you're looking for a meaningful relationship at a BBW club or BBW bash you're looking in the wrong place. If you go to a club or bash and think you're going to change some bad boy's ways you're downright delusional.
> 
> If these women had a healthier attitude about sex they wouldn't be crying on peoples' shoulders the next day. I know lots of women who go to these events get all their drinks paid for -- hookup if they choose -- and walk back to their room or car without one bit of shame.



I'm sorry that you're sorry, but your logic simply supports my point, which is that if size acceptance were more prevalent in this community, there wouldn't even be a need for social events like this, as people would simply go where everyone else goes to socialize.

I would also think that it's difficult for "these women" to have a healthier attitude about sex when they're lied to not only by many of the men in the fat community, but some of the women as well. And there are women who engage in the "I'm fat, buy me something and maybe I'll be good to you" mentality at these events and on the internet, but in my opinion, they're part of that small percentage of women who give the guys the goods, and cause them to think that all women in the fat community are just like the women they've encountered.


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## moonvine (Oct 1, 2013)

bigmac said:


> Sorry but if you're looking for a meaningful relationship at a BBW club or BBW bash you're looking in the wrong place. If you go to a club or bash and think you're going to change some bad boy's ways you're downright delusional.
> 
> If these women had a healthier attitude about sex they wouldn't be crying on peoples' shoulders the next day. I know lots of women who go to these events get all their drinks paid for -- hookup if they choose -- and walk back to their room or car without one bit of shame.



Sorry but I know plenty of people who have met and formed meaningful relationships at BBW clubs or bashes, some leading to marriage, the same as plenty of thin people have met and formed meaningful relationships at bars. People have to meet somewhere. Does that mean it is likely to happen, maybe not but it does happen.

I've rarely ever seen a woman at a BBW club or bash get their drinks paid for without putting out first unless they went there with their boyfriends or husbands. 

And it's the women's fault for not having a "healthy" (in your opinion) attitude about sex? Really? OK then.


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## ToniTails (Oct 8, 2013)

you are absolutely stunned that someone sees you or someone you know as "less than" in some way due only to fat 

you never think of hiding fat when viewing gorgeous fatshion, instead looking for the most pleasing way to accentuate it

your ideal of beauty has adjusted to the point the double chins are the norm so you no longer hold your phone ten feet above your forehead for a selfie


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## ToniTails (Oct 8, 2013)

this is the norm in every community- in the human community- ours is a small one so the slices of pie on stats are thicker and stand out more starkly. Unless we are planning to infiltrate the minds of the public, having chosen one good for all, and implement said choice into action, I think we are simply going to have to deal with the fact that each person has a myriad of choices. Though we can effect them to a point, until that mind control serum is perfected, we'll just have to make do.




wrestlingguy said:


> I'm sorry that you're sorry, but your logic simply supports my point, which is that if size acceptance were more prevalent in this community, there wouldn't even be a need for social events like this, as people would simply go where everyone else goes to socialize.
> 
> I would also think that it's difficult for "these women" to have a healthier attitude about sex when they're lied to not only by many of the men in the fat community, but some of the women as well. And there are women who engage in the "I'm fat, buy me something and maybe I'll be good to you" mentality at these events and on the internet, but in my opinion, they're part of that small percentage of women who give the guys the goods, and cause them to think that all women in the fat community are just like the women they've encountered.


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