# Remaining fat positive while dealing with fat related health issues



## wistful (Dec 24, 2008)

I wrote a while back here in the health forum that I was dealing with getting my fatty liver under control.While no one knows for sure,that my liver issues are directly related to my weight,the evidence is pretty compelling that it is indeed a "fat issue". This whole problem has really thrown me for a loop in regards to my feelings concerning my own size. I've been working on accepting myself fat for well over a decade now and I'm finding it tougher these days then I have in a very,very long time.

I realize that many fat people are in perfect health and I was lucky enough to be one until recently.Yeah,I know that a fatty liver is far from the end of the world but it's woken up the chorus of fat negative voices in my head once again.I can't help but wonder what other fat related illnesses wait for me in the future...my joints aren't feeling so great these days either.

I think part of my struggle this time is also about dealing with the intersection where fat meets up with aging.I found it so much physically easier to be very large when I was in my early/mid twenties then I do in my mid thirties.This is also a bit shameful for me to admit to but I had a certain amount of pride invested in the fact that I was beating all the statistics and was in "perfect" physical health.Well, I certainly learned my lesson.

For those of us who are dealing with fat imposed limitations or illnesses..How do we keep a positive attitude towards our size?? How do you not allow a bump in the road to completely derail you? Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated!


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## LillyBBBW (Dec 24, 2008)

Possibly I've made myself delusional with a determination not to believe the hype. I've just convinced myself that with age comes issues for _everyone_. Everybody has to deal. It has become easy to think that way when I communicate with thin people and discover the high percentage of people on life long therapy for preexisting conditions. A lot of the people around me are dealing with stuff that I would never even guess they have an issue. Some of these conditions are things that us fatties rarely need worry about because percentagewise we rarely get any of those diseases while for thin to average people the same can not be said for the types of things typically attributed to obesity. They get just as much flak from family and the medical establishment for being too thin, not exercising, smoking, etc.

Lately my blood pressure has been kind of high. I don't have hypertension, but the level is inching up there. I'm not liking it at. all. but instead of saying, "OMGIMFATISGONGITMETHEFUDZHAVTOSTOPRIMMADIEEEEE!!!11eleven!1!" I react as any other sane person would. "I'm 42, I'm getting older, these things happen, I'm going to look into ways to live healthier." Even if I am deluding myself about the dangers of being fat I don't think being hysterical, angry at myself or whatever is going to help matters. I've sat down, researched and ordered a new cookbook that I hope will help my BP as well as a few other things that I should be thinking about in terms of prevention. :happy: I can't WAIT to adapt the recipies to the crock pot and try them out. :eat2: And I've ordered a pair of roller skates.


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## TraciJo67 (Dec 24, 2008)

What Lilly said. Exactly.

There's a fine line between burying one's head in the sand (completely ignoring) and realistic acknowledgment (which includes making an effort to change the things within our power to change, as Lilly highlighted). 

I had the same concerns about my health as related to my size, years ago. I chose to have WLS. I no longer have the same health concerns, but I've picked up new ones related to complications of the surgery. I try to focus on what I *can* accomplish. I also know my limitations, and I try not to beat myself up with them. I'm human. I make mistakes. I don't always make good choices. Sometimes I choose to do things that are in direct contradiction to what I know to be good for me (like, drinking 3 iron-sapping, high carb, low nutritional value latte "fillers" per day). I won't lie to myself about it. I won't pretend that I'm making the best choices all the time, or even most of the time. But there are certain things I know about myself: I'm either going to do it, and accept it ... or I'm going to do it, and then beat the hell out of myself over it. If I know that I'm going to do it, I'd much rather be kind to myself in the meantime. 

I'd say the same to you. Focus on what you can realistically change. Small steps. Don't worry about weight loss or any kind of unrealistic goal ... just set your sights on making small choices that can make a big overall difference to you ... and be sure that these changes are things that you can live with & that they fit into your already existing habits & lifestyle. For me, that is ... being very sure to include iron & protein-rich foods in my daily diet, walking for a minimum of 1/2 hour per day, taking my supplements & infusions, and staying OFF my scale (in fact, I threw the damn thing away as I was freaking obsessed with it).


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## Jon Blaze (Dec 24, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> What Lilly said. Exactly.
> 
> There's a fine line between burying one's head in the sand (completely ignoring) and realistic acknowledgment (which includes making an effort to change the things within our power to change, as Lilly highlighted).
> 
> ...



Agreed, but I don't think any where in the middle is delusional to be honest. Things happen, and as Lilly said: No one is impervious to anything. 
I don't know whether or not you want to lose weight, but start a plan based around what you think you can accomplish, and just take it one step at a time.


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## moore2me (Dec 25, 2008)

wistful said:


> I wrote a while back here in the health forum that I was dealing with getting my fatty liver under control.While no one knows for sure,that my liver issues are directly related to my weight,the evidence is pretty compelling that it is indeed a "fat issue". This whole problem has really thrown me for a loop in regards to my feelings concerning my own size. I've been working on accepting myself fat for well over a decade now and I'm finding it tougher these days then I have in a very,very long time.
> 
> I realize that many fat people are in perfect health and I was lucky enough to be one until recently.Yeah,I know that a fatty liver is far from the end of the world but it's woken up the chorus of fat negative voices in my head once again.I can't help but wonder what other fat related illnesses wait for me in the future...my joints aren't feeling so great these days either.
> 
> ...



Dear Wistful,

It sounds to me like you're experiencing the aging process. You think you having angst now - - wait until menopause hits you. Get ready for a even harder slap in the face by father time. And as to anyone being in perfect health and beating all the statistics, remember "we don't get out of this life alive."

But, your last paragraph contained a key to keeping your sanity when you start facing problems with the little "flaws" or "breakdowns" of that once twenty to thirty year old body. First you have to understand that it's not just fat people who get arthritis, liver cancer, heart disease, back pain, knee replacements, shingles, bone fractures, depression, hair loss, and the other bad things that attack humans. Skinny folks get this stuff too. And amazing the rates are no different for most diseases. (There are a few diseases that we fatties have at higher rates.)

[First off regarding your liver issues, my best advice if you are worried about hepatic health, is to get a hepatitis vaccination. This vaccine is one of few that can prevent cancer  liver cancer. But, ask your doctor. Additional advice to assist your liver would be to stop of minimize or stop drinking alcoholic beverages & minimize use of acetaminophen (Tylenol). ]

Now, back to getting older and accepting your fate, you dont have to be meek or totally bovine about this stuff. You can take steps to protect yourself that you are comfortable with, that you can handle, that you can afford, and that you can accomplish. Note: That steps you can accomplish is very important. Saying this year, I am going to make my liver function 100% better is probably not achievable. But, saying that this year I am going to stop drinking alcoholic beverages is. Your goal should not to be perfect, but to be better, improve yourself in body and mind, help other people. And yes, our little trains will get derailed every now and then. We just have to put them back on the track and start them moving again in the right direction. Its all a part of life.

In conclusion, I too have a fatty liver. It has even been biopsied to check for cancer. So far, so good. But, after I read in the news that Jim Nabors, Larry Hagman, and our ex-Governor Jim Guy Tucker all got liver transplants (Jim Guy got two), I feel a little better. And I have some other issues that may make the liver route look not so bad -- if one has to pick a final exit.


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## LillyBBBW (Dec 26, 2008)

I hope at some point you'll check in and tell us how you are feeling, wistful. I do know how mind altering and devastating it can be to receive news of this nature. I've been thinking about you and hoping you're not going through this adrift and feeling vulnerable. Are the doctors/caregivers being very helpful to you?


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## LillyBBBW (Dec 26, 2008)

.........................


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## JMNYC (Dec 26, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> Possibly I've made myself delusional with a determination not to believe the hype. I've just convinced myself that with age comes issues for _everyone_. Everybody has to deal. It has become easy to think that way when I communicate with thin people and discover the high percentage of people on life long therapy for preexisting conditions. A lot of the people around me are dealing with stuff that I would never even guess they have an issue. Some of these conditions are things that us fatties rarely need worry about because percentagewise we rarely get any of those diseases while for thin to average people the same can not be said for the types of things typically attributed to obesity. They get just as much flak from family and the medical establishment for being too thin, not exercising, smoking, etc.
> 
> Lately my blood pressure has been kind of high. I don't have hypertension, but the level is inching up there. I'm not liking it at. all. but instead of saying, "OMGIMFATISGONGITMETHEFUDZHAVTOSTOPRIMMADIEEEEE!!!11eleven!1!" I react as any other sane person would. "I'm 42, I'm getting older, these things happen, I'm going to look into ways to live healthier." Even if I am deluding myself about the dangers of being fat I don't think being hysterical, angry at myself or whatever is going to help matters. I've sat down, researched and ordered a new cookbook that I hope will help my BP as well as a few other things that I should be thinking about in terms of prevention. :happy: I can't WAIT to adapt the recipies to the crock pot and try them out. :eat2: And I've ordered a pair of roller skates.



Hi, Lilly! For what it's worth, my "bad" cholesterol, which was "borderline high" in Feb. 2008, is now "normal", as is my blood pressure. The doc attributes it to the vegan diet I've followed for 11 months. Not saying EVERYONE HAS TO DO THIS RIGHT NOW, AND PERFECTLY! But there is something to be said for getting the cholesterol and BP under control without any drugs, which can affect other s--t in your body.

I also left a job that was sucking the marrow from my bones, which may also have something to do with the blood pressure easing back into a manageable state.


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## TraciJo67 (Dec 26, 2008)

Jon Blaze said:


> Agreed, but I don't think any where in the middle is delusional to be honest. Things happen, and as Lilly said: No one is impervious to anything.
> I don't know whether or not you want to lose weight, but start a plan based around what you think you can accomplish, and just take it one step at a time.



I agree with you, Jon. To me, delusional means refusing to acknowledge health concerns, and continuing a lifestyle that cannot sustain you. Equally delusional is to acknowledge the problems, and THEN to jump right in with "I'm going to lose 100 pounds, and I'm going to run a marathon and I'm going to stop eating sweets, effective immediately." I believe in making changes that are easy to incorporate into one's lifestyle. It's not realistic for most of us to crash diet into a huge weight loss (I know from personal experience -- the pounds creep right back on, and THEN some). And, let's face it, most people hate to do exercise. For me, a realistic alternative is walking. I enjoy tuning the world out with my MP3 player and strolling through the skyway system close to my workplace. I've attempted the other stuff ... buying a treadmill, jogging, doing Yoga & Pilates, etc. My interest level in most of those activities is ... zilch. As proven by lapsed (and expensive) gym memberships, a closet full of unused color-coordinated yoga pants & jogging outfits and high-end low-impact running shoes, etc  and  and a great big :doh: Other people need to find what works for them. 

I know that I'm not impervious, and I think that the OP does too. Small changes, easily incorporated into an already existing lifestyle ... it may not be the best route, but it's a step in the right direction ... and it's sustainable. Weight loss isn't a goal for me anymore. I just don't want to gain weight, and I don't want to obsess over 5-10 pounds in either direction (which is why the scale went buh-bye). 

By the same token, I readily acknowledge that I'm no expert. But then, I think everyone here, including the OP, already knows this. My advise is strictly layperson, with absolutely no medical knowledge of any condition other than my own.


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## Jon Blaze (Dec 26, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> I agree with you, Jon. To me, delusional means refusing to acknowledge health concerns, and continuing a lifestyle that cannot sustain you. Equally delusional is to acknowledge the problems, and THEN to jump right in with "I'm going to lose 100 pounds, and I'm going to run a marathon and I'm going to stop eating sweets, effective immediately." I believe in making changes that are easy to incorporate into one's lifestyle. It's not realistic for most of us to crash diet into a huge weight loss (I know from personal experience -- the pounds creep right back on, and THEN some). And, let's face it, most people hate to do exercise. For me, a realistic alternative is walking. I enjoy tuning the world out with my MP3 player and strolling through the skyway system close to my workplace. I've attempted the other stuff ... buying a treadmill, jogging, doing Yoga & Pilates, etc. My interest level in most of those activities is ... zilch. As proven by lapsed (and expensive) gym memberships, a closet full of unused color-coordinated yoga pants & jogging outfits and high-end low-impact running shoes, etc  and  and a great big :doh: Other people need to find what works for them.
> 
> I know that I'm not impervious, and I think that the OP does too. Small changes, easily incorporated into an already existing lifestyle ... it may not be the best route, but it's a step in the right direction ... and it's sustainable. Weight loss isn't a goal for me anymore. I just don't want to gain weight, and I don't want to obsess over 5-10 pounds in either direction (which is why the scale went buh-bye).
> 
> By the same token, I readily acknowledge that I'm no expert. But then, I think everyone here, including the OP, already knows this. My advise is strictly layperson, with absolutely no medical knowledge of any condition other than my own.




I think with your experiences you can bring things to the table (I am sure you're an expert of how you feel too), and even though many of us don't have specific knowledge in this area, we can still do research, and apply at least some knowledge.

I'm sure that there's many choices that can be made. Even though being fat is obviously risk factor for this, there's more to it than touting weight loss I'm sure. Wistful, check around online and offline for information on your disorder, and find as many suggested changes that you can apply. Then make a list of some that you can be incorporated, and go from there.


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## wistful (Dec 26, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> I hope at some point you'll check in and tell us how you are feeling, wistful. I do know how mind altering and devastating it can be to receive news of this nature. I've been thinking about you and hoping you're not going through this adrift and feeling vulnerable. Are the doctors/caregivers being very helpful to you?



Thank you Lilly for thinking of me.. I appreciate it greatly.Also I want to thank everyone who took the time to respond to me and give me advice..it's helpful to hear about how other people think/feel/deal with these sorts of health issues.

As far as how my healthcare providers are doing that's kind of mixed.They discovered the enlarged liver when my liver enzyme reading came back elevated and then they scanned my G.I. system and saw that my liver is somewhat fatty and enlarged.My primary doctor is extremely adamant that I lose weight.She wasn't rude about it at all,she even went out of her way to let me know that my weight isn't totally my fault(which is more then you will get from most doctors!) but she feels that this is a warning that things have to change.She set me up with a nutritionist and an endocrinologist and while I will happily go to the endo, I have some reservations about seeing a nutritionist.

Here is the thing..I don't take tylenol and I only drink about twice a year or so,though I usually drink to intoxication on those rare occasions I do indulge.I'm going to cut out the drinking entirely but since I don't drink all that often I don't think that's going to make a huge difference.I've been doing quite a bit research on the condition and there seems to be a very strong link between obesity,excess consumption of calories and a fatty liver.

I don't want to get too much into this, because I wish to be respectful of the health board's rules but a while back I did make the decision to change how I was eating and lose weight.I'm hoping that these changes will help my liver but only time will tell.My doctor advised very slow,sensible weight loss because losing weight quickly can actually stress your liver and thus defeat the purpose of changing your diet in the first place.My metabolism is such,that I couldn't even lose weight quickly if I wanted to!

In the meantime though,I don't want to throw away all of the hard work I've done over the years in terms of learning to accept myself as I am.The physical issues are a bit stressful but then on top of it I'm finding myself hating my fatness in a way I haven't in a long time.I still whole heartedly support and accept size acceptance,I'm just having trouble applying it to myself.I will always be fat to one degree or another, so it's important that I manage to hold on to my fat positivity.It's just that when you have an illness that is caused by size,it can reframe your thinking a bit and it can cause you to question previously held assumptions.I'm hoping that in time I will adjust.


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## LillyBBBW (Dec 26, 2008)

wistful said:


> Thank you Lilly for thinking of me.. I appreciate it greatly.Also I want to thank everyone who took the time to respond to me and give me advice..it's helpful to hear about how other people think/feel/deal with these sorts of health issues.
> 
> As far as how my healthcare providers are doing that's kind of mixed.They discovered the enlarged liver when my liver enzyme reading came back elevated and then they scanned my G.I. system and saw that my liver is somewhat fatty and enlarged.My primary doctor is extremely adamant that I lose weight.She wasn't rude about it at all,she even went out of her way to let me know that my weight isn't totally my fault(which is more then you will get from most doctors!) but she feels that this is a warning that things have to change.She set me up with a nutritionist and an endocrinologist and while I will happily go to the endo, I have some reservations about seeing a nutritionist.
> 
> ...



Thanks for checking in wistful, and I think that's a great idea. If you have something that you know will work for you then why not use it? I wish you the best in sorting all of that out, I'm sure you will do well with it. Sounds like you have a plan or least the humble beginings of one. I can't say I'm in exactly the same place but I do feel that for me the party is coming to a close and it's time to dry out and be more disciplined about my choices. Nothing crazy, just small changes that I know will help. Don't let that nutritionist yank you about, be faithful to what you know about yourself but open to helpful information.


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## TraciJo67 (Dec 28, 2008)

missaf said:


> Fatty liver can happen to anyone. This is another one of those diseases that pisses me off-- doctors use weight as a cop-out. Studies show that weight loss and fat controlled diets produces inconsistent results. Insulin resistance, diabetes, alcohol use, hepatitis, Cushing's Disease and hyperlipidemia all are causes of fatty liver. I would encourage you to ask your doctor to help you find a root cause for your fatty liver, and not just blame your weight. If the doctor won't, find a new one. The real control of fatty liver revolves around accurately diagnosing the cause, and not just treating the symptoms. A full lipid panel with a HDL-LDL ratio test will tell you a lot about what is going on with your liver. A glucose tolerance test and a fasting insulin blood draw to go with that will also help. Herbs are a great way to help liver damage reverse. I use evening primrose oil and Milk thistle. They both are time tested, and help rejuvinate your liver. It takes seven years for a complete rejuvination, but the more good stuff you put in, the faster you heal. Ask your doctor what he or she thinks of adding herbs to help your liver heal -- that will definitely open your eyes to their willingness to heal you, or make you a permanent patient.




Missaf, I think that this is more a case of empirical data being quite overwhelmingly evident that obesity contributes to the condition of fatty liver. From what I understand (admittedly, these are only my own experiences), metabolic symptoms and obesity are rather circular issues. Whatever came first, doesn't matter so much as evidence that resolving one of those conditions can alleviate or even cure the other. I am assuming that wistful's doctor has already tested for many of the other conditions that you've listed, and has ruled them out. I don't think that a doctor would diagnose fatty liver without at least a liver function test and an ultrasound or CT. And because (non-alcoholic) fatty liver also tends to be, in itself, a symptom of a metabolic disorder, I'd be surprised if Wistful's doctor hadn't already done (or isn't in the process of requesting) a full lipid panel. 

My WLS doctor ASSUMED that I had a fatty liver and enlarged organs prior to my surgery, and he told me so. I wasn't tested for the condition. It was an assumption on his part based on my insulin resistance and high blood pressure. I'd never even had a conversation with my regular doctor about this, nor had I experienced any symptoms. He told me that he found this condition in most of the middle-aged patients that he operated on, in the number of years he'd been doing the operations. And he told me that he would more than likely have to remove my gall bladder, as it would also be enlarged. After surgery, he confirmed that all of his suspicions were correct. He also told me that rapid weight loss and exercise would resolve all of these conditions. He was right about that, too. 

I think it does more harm than good when people refuse to acknowledge that weight can and does contribute to the conditions that they suffer from -- and, whether or not it CAUSES the conditions is less important than the reality that a change in lifestyle and even moderate weight loss can RESOLVE them.


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## No-No-Badkitty (Dec 28, 2008)

JMNYC said:


> Not saying EVERYONE HAS TO DO THIS RIGHT NOW, AND PERFECTLY! But there is something to be said for getting the cholesterol and BP under control without any drugs, which can affect other s--t in your body.
> 
> .




I wanted to comment on this. Just to point out another side.
I eat a lot of protien. I prefer seafood but that's a rare treat and I do eat quite a bit of red meat, rare, instead. I have normal cholesterol and normal BP. What I don't consume is a lot of processed foods, fried foods, or salty foods.
So even a diet heavy on the protien doesn't mean you'll have high BP and or cholestrol.


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## LillyBBBW (Dec 28, 2008)

No-No-Badkitty said:


> I wanted to comment on this. Just to point out another side.
> I eat a lot of protien. I prefer seafood but that's a rare treat and I do eat quite a bit of red meat, rare, instead. I have normal cholesterol and normal BP. What I don't consume is a lot of processed foods, fried foods, or salty foods.
> So even a diet heavy on the protien doesn't mean you'll have high BP and or cholestrol.



There may be something to that. I have been eating a lot more sugar and carbs than usual over the last year or so.


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## moore2me (Dec 29, 2008)

Dear No No Bad Kitty,

I have been in your shoes a couple of times. Not that I handled it any better, but here's the peace treaty the doctor & I worked out. First, you have to decide if the doctor that is on your case is worth "jumping thru these hoops for". In my situation, the answer was "yes, most definitely" for two doctors and "no" for another doctor. 

Second, if you want to keep a doctor, you need to be a compliant and cooperative patient. You don't have to roll over, belly-up like a dog, but you should listen and try to follow their advice. When the dermatologist I really wanted to keep asked me to see a nutritionist about losing weight, I did just that. No, I did not lose weight, but I cooperated as best I could. In return, the dermatologist helped me with a skin problem in which he was the only person qualified in my state to prescribe the medication I needed. 

In the second situation, my neurologist for MS, wanted me to talk to a nutrition specialist, and I did that too. I followed up as best I could. In return, the neurologist and I have had a good, solid, relationship for over ten years now. I trust her and her staff and she knows my idiosyncrasies.

Also, keep in mind that these doctors are looking after their own professional "hides" as far as malpractice goes. So, asking a fat person to see a nutritionalist is standard medical protocol. It looks good written on the file to any critical eyes reviewing the records. It is what the doctors have learned to do in medical school.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Another side note: I forgot one more thing someone with a weak or "puny" liver needs to avoid. . . raw oysters. This is something I happen to love. I could easily eat a dozen or so, but had to stop doing this when the CDC advised anyone who was concerned about possible liver damage (hepatitis) only eat cooked oysters. There's just too much change of pollution in the water and bacteria, etc in the raw oysters.


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## TraciJo67 (Dec 29, 2008)

missaf said:


> TJ,
> 
> Of course I realize that some weight loss control can affect your overall health, however, the affect of weight loss and fat-controlled diets is a mixed bag in medical studies when it comes to reversing fatty liver because of its often misdiagnosis as a simple fat condition.
> 
> ...




I would hope that an ethically responsible medical professional wouldn't just blame weight & look no further when it comes to a chronic & possibly life-threatening illness .... but unfortunately, that's not the world we live in, is it?  I understand the point that you're trying to make, and agree.


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## Miss Vickie (Dec 30, 2008)

JMNYC said:


> I also left a job that was sucking the marrow from my bones, which may also have something to do with the blood pressure easing back into a manageable state.



I think we can't underestimate the effect that stress has on our bodies. Getting out of an untenable situation is HUGELY important when it comes to health. I hope that more research is done on how negatively stress impacts our bodies because I think it's something that's almost tossed out there as an afterthought.



TraciJo67 said:


> I agree with you, Jon. To me, delusional means refusing to acknowledge health concerns, and continuing a lifestyle that cannot sustain you. Equally delusional is to acknowledge the problems, and THEN to jump right in with "I'm going to lose 100 pounds, and I'm going to run a marathon and I'm going to stop eating sweets, effective immediately." I believe in making changes that are easy to incorporate into one's lifestyle.



Exactly. Eating five pounds of sugar a day and wondering a) why you're fat or b) why you're a diabetic or c) wondering why you feel like crap is delusional. But so is it delusional to say that being fat causes everything from heartburn to psoriasis to the common cold. My mom was a fat advocate before we were ever organized and I remember her giving her doctor a total ration of shit because he blamed some upper respiratory thing she had on her fat. She read him the riot act and DEMANDED that he take her seriously. And this was in the 60's.

So I think having a happy medium, which means acknowledging that for many of us fat is not good for us while doing what we can to be as healthy as we can is more realistic and more effective in the long run. Saying "I'm going to get down to what the insurance tables say is ideal for me" is unrealistic for most of us. Hell, even after WLS I'm nowhere near that. But saying "I'm going to eat better and move more and try not to gain weight this year" is realistic.

And as Missaf has said, being evaluated for endocrine diseases that may be causing/contributing to weight gain is key. Without that, we're just guessing that we're fat because we eat too much and move too little. But the truth is often way more complex.





wistful said:


> Here is the thing..I don't take tylenol and I only drink about twice a year or so,though I usually drink to intoxication on those rare occasions I do indulge.I'm going to cut out the drinking entirely but since I don't drink all that often I don't think that's going to make a huge difference.I've been doing quite a bit research on the condition and there seems to be a very strong link between obesity,excess consumption of calories and a fatty liver.



Well, everyone's limits are different. Some people get away with smoking two packs a day for decades with no damage to heart or lungs while others die fo cancer from second hand smoke. Some people drink like fishes and have no liver damage and others get fatty liver despite living cleanly. But anything we take into our bodies has to be run through our liver. So even if you don't drink or take tylenol, if you eat food laden with pesticides, as an example, those toxins have to be processed and that involves your liver.

As you say, though, there is a link between obesity and fatty liver. Whether it's as simple as A causes B we don't know, but it could well be that insulin resistance which is some weird kind of feedback mechanism can cause a lot more harm than good, including fatty liver.



> I don't want to get too much into this, because I wish to be respectful of the health board's rules but a while back I did make the decision to change how I was eating and lose weight.I'm hoping that these changes will help my liver but only time will tell.My doctor advised very slow,sensible weight loss because losing weight quickly can actually stress your liver and thus defeat the purpose of changing your diet in the first place.My metabolism is such,that I couldn't even lose weight quickly if I wanted to!



I think you can never go wrong by making good food choices. Whether it reverses the fatty liver (if such a thing is reversible) or not, it's good for you to eat healthily. To me that is the quintessential act of someone who truly loves themselves.



TraciJo67 said:


> Missaf, I think that this is more a case of empirical data being quite overwhelmingly evident that obesity contributes to the condition of fatty liver. From what I understand (admittedly, these are only my own experiences), metabolic symptoms and obesity are rather circular issues. Whatever came first, doesn't matter so much as evidence that resolving one of those conditions can alleviate or even cure the other.



Yup. It's the chicken egg thing. Which came first? Hard to say but losing weight usually helps. OTOH, the insulin resistance makes it nearly impossible for most people to lose weight without either pharmaceutical intervention or WLS.



> I think it does more harm than good when people refuse to acknowledge that weight can and does contribute to the conditions that they suffer from -- and, whether or not it CAUSES the conditions is less important than the reality that a change in lifestyle and even moderate weight loss can RESOLVE them.



What she said. To me that's the "shades of grey" vs. the "black and white" reasoning that we see so much of. 



TraciJo67 said:


> I would hope that an ethically responsible medical professional wouldn't just blame weight & look no further when it comes to a chronic & possibly life-threatening illness .... but unfortunately, that's not the world we live in, is it?  I understand the point that you're trying to make, and agree.



I hope so, too. Some docs may do that, but I hope that as the population is more educated and demands looking for answers more deeply, then doctors will be forced to exercise those brain cells of theirs and do some research; many think that since they're done with medical school they're done learning but the truth is that every DAY we learn new things about the human body.


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## No-No-Badkitty (Dec 30, 2008)

moore2me said:


> Dear No No Bad Kitty,
> 
> I have been in your shoes a couple of times. Not that I handled it any better, but here's the peace treaty the doctor & I worked out. First, you have to decide if the doctor that is on your case is worth "jumping thru these hoops for". In my situation, the answer was "yes, most definitely" for two doctors and "no" for another doctor.
> .





I think you meant this for the OP not me


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