# Perceptions of Big women



## Ruffie (Nov 27, 2008)

I was talking to a staff member the of our organization the other day at work and the subject came up of my size. I said that throughout my life I have been judged by my size, and was treated differently when I was lighter than I am now, although I had always been fat. I was explaining to her some of the things that had happened to me as a large person when she interrupts and says this line. "But Ruth I have never seen you as a big woman. I walked in here for the first day of work and I encountered a beautiful lady whose hair and makeup is well done, dresses very stylishly, and is well groomed. Not very many big woman do that! So I have never seen your size, just a beautiful lady"

It got me to thinking, how many other people have this belief subconscious that big women don't take care of themselves/have let themselves go. Has anyone else ever encountered comments such as these? 
Ruth


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## IDigHeavyGuys (Nov 27, 2008)

I've actually seen it - bigger women who don't look like they've brushed their hair and are dressed all frumpy. I think that they are women who have no confidence, though, and maybe just think, "Why bother?"


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## Ruffie (Nov 27, 2008)

I think we have all seen it. But what I don't get is how people lump everyone whether it be race, size, religion and such into one category and generalizations. People are people and should be judged on an individual basis on their own merit, not some stereotype.
Ruth


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## Chimpi (Nov 27, 2008)

I, personally, find it rather ill mannered and insulting to view it that way. It suggests that many/most fat people either do not "care" enough about the way they look - the way they present themselves to other people and real situations - which is rubbish. As much as I don't find much interest in them, I have seen celebrity magazines (most popular of which was People). Pictures of celebrities without their hair done, without make up on, without dressing stylish, without the presented essence of a well-groomed or well-preserved body. Many people, not just fat people, choose not to take measures of modifying their natural beauty to become a final result that many people (in my opinion, this view is rather unfortunate) believe to be more beautiful and more presenting.
You're right, Ruffie - people should be based on individual merit, rather than others that have directly or indirectly swayed their view of that type of person.

Though, specific to fat women, I have never come across that statement, only through the women of this forum.


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## BBWTexan (Nov 27, 2008)

IDigHeavyGuys said:


> I've actually seen it - bigger women who don't look like they've brushed their hair and are dressed all frumpy. I think that they are women who have no confidence, though, and maybe just think, "Why bother?"



If you were to see me right at this moment or even at times when I'm running to the grocery store, I suppose I would appear to you as one of those "Why bother" types. I'm curious as to whether people think the same thing about a skinny girl out and about in sweats, make-up free, and with her hair in a messy bun. I don't think I have anything to make up for just because I'm fat and I'm not going to doll myself up just to run errands. 

Monday through Friday I have to dress in business appropriate clothes and maintain a professional appearance. However, on the weekends and in my free time I'm going to do whatever is most comfortable for me. It has absolutely zero to do with self-confidence and is, in all actuality, just me being me. I can dress up like the rest of 'em, but at heart I'm a "jeans and t-shirt no makeup wearing messy bun" kind of gal and I'm perfectly happy with that.


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## ashmamma84 (Nov 27, 2008)

I think alot of women are down on themselves so they don't dress. I don't think it's just fat women either. I think some women hide behind the whole "I don't care", but I really think people do care...some might just be stuck in a rut. I believe we all need to change it up/revamp/spice it up every now and again. Some just might need a little help is all. 

I used to think well, why can't women just get it together; put on some cute clothes, hair done, nails done, face beat...but, I try not to pass judgement anymore. Until you've been in a person's shoes...One of my best girlfriends battles with crippling depression and the last thing on her mind some days, most days is matching her purse to her outfit. It has sort of changed my perspective on things. 

Now, I'm not saying it's a free pass to just look a HAM 24/7, but I do understand things...life...happens and women aren't always going to be glammed up. I just happen to be a woman who LOVES and ADORES clothing, shoes, etc. I love to dress and do it well, but I don't (or rather, I try) not to hold anyone else to *my* standard. I wouldn't want people doing that to me.


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## Tad (Nov 27, 2008)

Just to mention, a lot of women become fat, or fatter, either with pregnancy or when they have young children. Which is also times when looking pulled together may be way down on their priority list. 

Ive seen this effect at my sons school, where over a number of years youll see women starting kids in junior kindergarten, living in old jeans and worn t-shirts, or else have some other mom uniform that they can put on quickly each day without putting any substantial time or energy into choosing it. Hair is likewise usually in a low maintenance cut, and make up is apt to be minimal. After a few years, probably averaging grade two but it does vary, you seem to start seeing more make up, new hair styles, and slightly more styling clothes. Which of course is happening once the family has adapted to the kid being in school full time, and the kid is getting more independent.

Around that same time a lot seem to also lose some weight, whether it is that they have time for exercise routines, the energy to plan what they eating more, that their kids are big enough to walk farther and faster, I dont know. 

Ive seen the same pattern in enough women (including my wife) to think that it may be fairly common. Not every woman by far, but a good sized minority perhaps?


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## Dr. Feelgood (Nov 27, 2008)

Ruffie said:


> I think we have all seen it. But what I don't get is how people lump everyone whether it be race, size, religion and such into one category and generalizations. People are people and should be judged on an individual basis on their own merit, not some stereotype.
> Ruth



I agree -- once you know the person. But it takes time to get to know people on an individual basis, and you often have to have dealings with them before the acquaintance process is complete. Humans can be our best friends or our worst threats, and when you are approached by a stranger, you have to make an instant decision about which he is likely to be. This is why we generalize: it seems to be an automatic reaction to a new situation or person. Unfortunately, a lot of people hang onto their first impressions and don't allow later events and observations to change their opinions; they are called 'bigots'.


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## AshleyEileen (Nov 27, 2008)

I encounter comments like this all time. Personally, I'd much rather have my entire appearance commented than to hear "Oh, you have such a pretty face!" because I know damn well that the rest of me is just as beautiful.


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## Keb (Nov 27, 2008)

I'd never dream of going out without being clean, neat, and with my hair done nicely (or at least brushed and pulled into a ponytail). But I also don't wear any makeup on a regular basis except some lip gloss and on rare occasions nail polish. 

My sense of style probably doesn't follow the fashion magazines too well, either, since I loathe business suits and generally don't like pants and go with what I prefer--skirts and dresses, a number of which I've made myself. But just because they're one of a kind fashions doesn't mean they're frumpy, I hope.

I dunno, I do try to look good--I've just never thought that (except on stage, where even guys require makeup to look "normal") makeup and glossy magazine fashions were necessary. 

I do probably fail on the shoe front, mainly because I've not been willing to shell out hundreds on the rare internet shoes that are supposed to actually fit and instead just shop the guy's department for the least-ugly options. But seriously, who is paying attention to that when I've got awesome hair and a smile on my face?


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## olwen (Nov 27, 2008)

Ruffie said:


> I was talking to a staff member the of our organization the other day at work and the subject came up of my size. I said that throughout my life I have been judged by my size, and was treated differently when I was lighter than I am now, although I had always been fat. I was explaining to her some of the things that had happened to me as a large person when she interrupts and says this line. "But Ruth I have never seen you as a big woman. I walked in here for the first day of work and I encountered a beautiful lady whose hair and makeup is well done, dresses very stylishly, and is well groomed. Not very many big woman do that! So I have never seen your size, just a beautiful lady"
> 
> It got me to thinking, how many other people have this belief subconscious that big women don't take care of themselves/have let themselves go. Has anyone else ever encountered comments such as these?
> Ruth




I've encountered comments like that. What bothers me more is the "I don't see you as fat" part. It's like fat is something that has to be overlooked. It just irks me.


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## olwen (Nov 27, 2008)

IDigHeavyGuys said:


> I've actually seen it - bigger women who don't look like they've brushed their hair and are dressed all frumpy. I think that they are women who have no confidence, though, and maybe just think, "Why bother?"



You know, it could just be that some women who dress "frumpy" have a hard time finding clothes in their size that fits. It's not that they might not care, it could just be that they hate the clothes they wear and are frustrated by shopping, so they don't do it. I know that's how I felt about clothes for years. Plus money can be a factor too. Getting one's hair done, nails done, facials, waxes, buying makeup, etc can be expensive, and so can buying clothes if you have to do it online. 

I also feel like it's a bit unfair for women to have to go to all the trouble and expense to look so good when men don't. All that girly stuff isn't some innate quality all women are born with. It's learned and it stinks.


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## Surlysomething (Nov 27, 2008)

I talk to all the women in my life about this (Mom, sisters, Aunts, friends) and it makes me really happy and proud to be surrounded by such amazing women because when you love and or care for someone all you see is them. You don't see what society perceives as bad. And they've done more for my confidence than anyone (other than myself  ) 

But I do pride myself on looking nice. Put together. That doesn't mean everything always co-ordinates to a magazine look or whatever, it means groomed. Clothes that fit. Haircuts and makeup etc. And I don't think you have to look 'done' to do that. It's basic care-taking, you know? It really does make a difference. 

Of course we all have those days where we dress down. Lord knows I love Sundays where I can put my hair in a pony and not wear makeup. Haha. But when you look good, you feel good. Take a few minutes, it will make a world of difference.


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## ashmamma84 (Nov 27, 2008)

Surlysomething said:


> I talk to all the women in my life about this (Mom, sisters, Aunts, friends) and it makes me really happy and proud to be surrounded by such amazing women because when you love and or care for someone all you see is them. You don't see what society perceives as bad. And they've done more for my confidence than anyone (other than myself  )
> 
> But I do pride myself on looking nice. Put together. That doesn't mean everything always co-ordinates to a magazine look or whatever, it means groomed. Clothes that fit. Haircuts and makeup etc. And I don't think you have to look 'done' to do that. It's basic care-taking, you know? It really does make a difference.
> 
> Of course we all have those days where we dress down. Lord knows I love Sundays where I can put my hair in a pony and not wear makeup. Haha. But when you look good, you feel good. Take a few minutes, it will make a world of difference.



So true. When I dress, when I get my locs and hair done, I really feel like I'm engaging in self-care. Sure, it takes money, but even if things are tight, going to Walgreen's or CVS to pick up some DIY products can be just as good. 

I learned from my Mother, Grandmother and Aunts to look good and feel good. They are all jazzy women and really enjoy getting gussied up. For them, it's really just embracing femininity and "being a girl", and I have to admit...it's really fun.


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## steely (Nov 27, 2008)

Why is it that fat women are invisible until you run out for a gallon of milk looking like crap?

Most people don't look at me twice,actually avoid looking at me,no matter how polite,nice or well dressed I am,but sweet jesus don't look bad.You have no self respect or self esteem.Is it any wonder?


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## AnnMarie (Nov 27, 2008)

BBWTexan said:


> If you were to see me right at this moment or even at times when I'm running to the grocery store, I suppose I would appear to you as one of those "Why bother" types. I'm curious as to whether people think the same thing about a skinny girl out and about in sweats, make-up free, and with her hair in a messy bun. I don't think I have anything to make up for just because I'm fat and I'm not going to doll myself up just to run errands.
> 
> Monday through Friday I have to dress in business appropriate clothes and maintain a professional appearance. However, on the weekends and in my free time I'm going to do whatever is most comfortable for me. It has absolutely zero to do with self-confidence and is, in all actuality, just me being me. I can dress up like the rest of 'em, but at heart I'm a "jeans and t-shirt no makeup wearing messy bun" kind of gal and I'm perfectly happy with that.



Thank you, saves me typing. 

While I will not go out in gross clothes and littered with stains or stinking, I'm very casual. That's me. I'm always presentable, usually "in style", but rarely "dolled up"... if there's judgment passed on that JUST because I'm FAT and handle myself that way, then screw the judge.


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## saucywench (Nov 27, 2008)

For many of those who judge fat women they encounter, it's irrelevant what degree of care you take in appearance--neat, clean, fabulous hair, make-up, clothing, manicure, pedicure, etc.--they will see _only_ your size and reach the conclusion (based on that singular observation _alone_)--that you are slovenly. If you don't visually measure up to the societal perception of fitness, none of the "peripherals" will matter. But, as AM said, screw the judges.


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## Santaclear (Nov 27, 2008)

Ruffie said:


> I was explaining to her some of the things that had happened to me as a large person when she interrupts and says this line. "But Ruth I have never seen you as a big woman. I walked in here for the first day of work and I encountered a beautiful lady whose hair and makeup is well done, dresses very stylishly, and is well groomed. Not very many big woman do that!"



I think in those last two sentences she was merely showing her anti-fat prejudice, whether intentional or not.

She's wrong. It's not true. Many big women DO do that. 

And what's more, big women look _every bit as good_ (hell, I think they look damn better!) as any size when dressed casually.


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## Theatrmuse/Kara (Nov 27, 2008)

I am with AnnMarie about this subject. Sometimes I dress up and wear makeup (like when working or enjoying a nice nite out), but more often than not........I just blow dry my hair, wear jeans and casual things when I am not teaching, and maybe toss on a bit of lipstick!

Okay, I admit that I was a bit of a Tom boy as a girl. I FEEL more comfortable in jeans and tops. BUT now, and as I grow older, I am MORE confident and at ease in my own skin and personality. Honestly, ya get what ya see with me.

Looks fade with time, but we must discover who we are inside the soul and we always must feel good about what's on the inside more than the outside!

Living in Asheville has been great for me because there are a LOT of old hippys and new agers who are just more concerned with natural beauty and spiritual growth than just appearance.

I really do like the natural me! 
Hugs, Kara


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## steely (Nov 27, 2008)

I really enjoyed living in Asheville for those exact same reasons.Most people are more concerned with other things than looks.I miss it.


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## Shosh (Nov 27, 2008)

I live in a town of hippies and greenies that do not really care what others wear.
When I lived in the city it was a different story.

I have personal preferences in the types of clothing that I will wear in public, but that is me. I do not care what others wear.
I will not wear sneakers and sweat pants other than when I am exercising inside my home.
I just prefer cute pretty clothes as it makes me feel better about myself.

I have mates that wear jeans and a t shirt etc and that is fine.


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## superodalisque (Nov 27, 2008)

Ruffie i get that comment a lot too. when i talk to my thin friends about acceptance they often say they never really thought of me as being fat. i think mainly because i do everything that they do pretty much and i really don't have much to complain about in general. they feel my concerns are the same as theirs. and they have also said i don't come across as a "fat" woman because i take care of myself well. i answer that by showing them all of the pix i have of my beautiful friends who are fat that i often take at events. usually they say "WOW! but i never see these women on the street, or when i go out". 

i wouldn't say the stereotye society has is totally unfair. people have to see it a lot or it wouldn't be a stereotype. but the problem is they don't know whats behind it. they don't understand that a lot of people they are looking at are probably depressed or they don't have access to stylish cothing etc...unfortunately people have only so long to get an impression of you. not everyone will have the chance to know you in depth. so how a person dresses or carries themselves is an opprtunity to express who they are to the world. it doesn't make a person shallow to take care of themselves. it doesn't take identity away to show people exactly who you are inside and what you think of yourself. 

i have a friend who is an FA and he said something interesting. he really loves fat girls and thinks they are beautiful but, he gets embarrassed by how they dress and carry themselves in public sometimes. he adores BBWs. he likes girls who dress well and feel that they are worth it. if he went out with a BBW and was embarrassed it would never be because she was fat. it would be because she didn't take care of herself or represent herself well. he said that when he goes out with his buddies he wants his girl to look good too--and that doesn't mean thin. he wants to be proud of how well she represents herself especially when society is against her for the most part. the very fact that she has that kind of self awareness and personal strength makes him feel even more attracted. but if he was with someone who didn't take care of herself and got a bit embarrassed he'd be blamed for being a closet FA which isn't the case at all. 

i think its true that when people face a lot of difficulties they sometimes give up. but its important to understand how giving up is a vicious cycle that contributes to the difficulties that can make you feel even more like giving up in the first place. its also not just about what other people think. its about the fact that everyone feels better when they feel taken care of. i just think its important to take care of yourself when your big because there is more of you to see. if your sloppy its a lot of sloppy. if your neat its a lot of neat. so people tend to over-react to us a lot. either they're digusted or happily surprised and there isn't much in the middle. its just another reality of being fat.


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## t3h_n00b (Nov 28, 2008)

Ruffie said:


> I think we have all seen it. But what I don't get is how people lump everyone whether it be race, size, religion and such into one category and generalizations. People are people and should be judged on an individual basis on their own merit, not some stereotype.
> Ruth



evaluating people individually in the truest sense is far too complicated for most people. it would require going against a natural instinct to categorize things, which is generally advantageous. it should be done nonetheless but i just don't see the masses of people (especially in my country, the US) being able to see the value in not stereotyping people. its too easy the other way, especially when you're in the status quo group.


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## goodthings (Nov 28, 2008)

Ruffie said:


> I was talking to a staff member the of our organization the other day at work and the subject came up of my size. I said that throughout my life I have been judged by my size, and was treated differently when I was lighter than I am now, although I had always been fat. I was explaining to her some of the things that had happened to me as a large person when she interrupts and says this line. "But Ruth I have never seen you as a big woman. I walked in here for the first day of work and I encountered a beautiful lady whose hair and makeup is well done, dresses very stylishly, and is well groomed. Not very many big woman do that! So I have never seen your size, just a beautiful lady"
> 
> It got me to thinking, how many other people have this belief subconscious that big women don't take care of themselves/have let themselves go. Has anyone else ever encountered comments such as these?
> Ruth



Oh indeed I have heard that before...fat people are (place stereotype here) but you are not like that, or you are not that fat (hello I am 350+) etc etc


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## mossystate (Nov 28, 2008)

Fat women take up more space...you notice us. Smaller women can go around in very...very...casual clothing, cuticles looking ragged, no makeup...and most people do not tend to jump to conclusions of depression...she lost a job...she doesn't ' care '. They just...don't. Who gives a rats arse how a person likes to dress...or if they wear makeup...or how many spa days they have every year......really. I might be thinking whatever I might be thinking, as I gaze upon a person...but I really do not ' profile '.

And, yeah, men are not judged this way...generally speaking. I see plenty of ' dad uniforms ' being worn...and it ain't always pretty...to me...but I would not diagnose the guy. 

blah

I have seen plenty of people who do all the ' right ' things in terms of how they groom themseves...dress...etc.....and they can be hiding a lot of crap, under all of it. But, our society does tend to focus on the superficial...no doubt about it.


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## Ruffie (Nov 28, 2008)

t3h_n00b said:


> evaluating people individually in the truest sense is far too complicated for most people. it would require going against a natural instinct to categorize things, which is generally advantageous. it should be done nonetheless but i just don't see the masses of people (especially in my country, the US) being able to see the value in not stereotyping people. its too easy the other way, especially when you're in the status quo group.



Perhaps what I meant to say but didn't quite get it out properly is this. Yes we all judge based on appearance initially. I have don it just as everyone else has. However, what bugs me is people who get to know people of a certain race, creed or color, find them to be different than the stereotype and then still go on to apply it to other people of the same group. They then state as the lady did to me "that you are so different than otherInsert group here!
I believe we need to evolve enough to make an effort to see people as people Initially to protect oneself you are cautious and stand offish, but I find alot of time in my line of work(which is the street people, at risk teens and prostitutes) if you get to know them as people many of them are great folks! I have a problems with yuppies, I will admit it. They have to live in this area of town, wear the right clothes, drive the right cars, never leave the house without hair and makeup perfectly done, jeans pressed and a cup of latte in hand. There was one like that when working out at the gym first thing in the morning was all fluffed up each and every morning. I snorted and though of her as a prissy little thing ,vain with the thong up her butt. One morning she and I were the only ones in the gym and I was forced to talk to her. Turns out she was in a similar line of work as I and we shared many of the same philosophies as I got to know her better. Taught me a lesson!
Ruth
Ruth


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## prickly (Nov 28, 2008)

mossystate said:


> I have seen plenty of people who do all the ' right ' things in terms of how they groom themseves...dress...etc.....and they can be hiding a lot of crap, under all of it. But, our society does tend to focus on the superficial...no doubt about it.



......and in any case, what is an "acceptable" level of superficial cover, otherwise known as make-up, does seem to vary. 

personally i can't stand it, but the amount of wake up worn in, say, the southern US by the majority of women would be viewed as totally over the top in the UK, and probably most of europe in fact. same goes for clothes........far more casual elsewhere on the whole (probably more so in northern europe than southern as far as clothes are concerned).


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## JimBob (Nov 28, 2008)

It's been around since the ancient times; Hippocrates advised fat people against becoming physicians and physicians from becoming overweight, as they would be perceived as unable to take care of their own health and thus in no fit state to look after anyone else's.

Not that I agree. Just saying.


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## Ernest Nagel (Nov 28, 2008)

I think the real issue here is mental laziness. Most of the time our brains are operating in one of two simple modes, lumping or splitting. We're either finding similarities or differences. The older we get the bigger the database we have from which to identify similarities. If we're in a hurry one common element is sufficient to allow us to pigeonhole something as just what we expected. The splitting mode seems harder. Determining that something isn't what we're familiar with, that it deserves fresh consideration looks like more work. We have to test our assumptions rather than resting on them. 

IMO this is what makes all kinds of relationships unnecessarily difficult. Assumptions grounded in past experiences pollute and distort our perceptions of who we're actually with in this moment. To fairly assess each new person in our lives requires a willingness to forgo the comfort of expectations, to let go of what we think we know and welcome surprise, whether it be in the form of delight or disappointment. I think one possible analogy is to be willing to be in the world/relationships as a tourist in unfamiliar territory. You're there specifically because you want to see things you've never seen before, From that perspective lumping is a job and splitting is a vacation. Which do we most look forward to? :bow:

Good inquiry/thread, btw, Ruth!


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## t3h_n00b (Nov 28, 2008)

Ruffie said:


> Perhaps what I meant to say but didn't quite get it out properly is this. Yes we all judge based on appearance initially. I have don it just as everyone else has. However, what bugs me is people who get to know people of a certain race, creed or color, find them to be different than the stereotype and then still go on to apply it to other people of the same group. They then state as the lady did to me "that you are so different than otherInsert group here!



Haha, yeah. The age of "enlightened exceptionalism". in the antebellum period they had something similar. it was called freedom papers.



> I believe we need to evolve enough to make an effort to see people as people Initially to protect oneself you are cautious and stand offish, but I find alot of time in my line of work(which is the street people, at risk teens and prostitutes) if you get to know them as people many of them are great folks! I have a problems with yuppies, I will admit it. They have to live in this area of town, wear the right clothes, drive the right cars, never leave the house without hair and makeup perfectly done, jeans pressed and a cup of latte in hand. There was one like that when working out at the gym first thing in the morning was all fluffed up each and every morning. I snorted and though of her as a prissy little thing ,vain with the thong up her butt. One morning she and I were the only ones in the gym and I was forced to talk to her. Turns out she was in a similar line of work as I and we shared many of the same philosophies as I got to know her better. Taught me a lesson!
> Ruth
> Ruth



Yeah, yuppies are a rough bunch. i live in the ultimate yuppie factory and go to yuppie university and they aren;t half bad once you get past the aesthetic. i've come to learn that all stereotypes are true of all people. like black people are late. everybody is late at some point. that's what makes stereotypes so hard to break down in a lot of people's minds, they are so broad that they will invariably be proved true and because you already believe in it, you'll be looking for someone to validate it (which means you'll take special notice of stereotype confirmers while ignoring everyone who doesn't confirm it).



BTW, this has nothing to do with this thread but i have to say the level of discourse on this board is WAY higher than i've found on other boards. most forums seem to be a magnet for dumbasses and internet tough guys, but this plays has a healthy feel to it.


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## CynPart2 (Nov 29, 2008)

Ruffie said:


> I think we have all seen it. But what I don't get is how people lump everyone whether it be race, size, religion and such into one category and generalizations. People are people and should be judged on an individual basis on their own merit, not some stereotype.
> Ruth



This reminds me of something I heard by a national TV reporter on Thanskgiving. She stated that Michelle Obama will challenge the prevailing notion of black women as "overweight, ignorant, and angry." I shudder to think of how much media time this cartoonish stereotype will get over the next four years. It's another example of people habitually lumping together certain characteristics (fat and frumpy, fat and lazy, etc), without realizing just how much harm the images create.


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## IDigHeavyGuys (Nov 29, 2008)

I think that too much offense may have been taken in what I said.

I HAVE seen skinny chicks who don't look as though they care about themselves, but we weren't talking about skinny chicks. 

I've seen people of varying sizes looking good and not-so-good. When this was originally posted, though, it made me think of a woman that I saw once in Walmart. She was a really big woman, which is of course fine, but that's not why I noticed her. I noticed her because of the clothes that she was wearing. She was wearing a white T-shirt, and it didn't look like she was wearing a bra. Her shirt didn't fit, though. I mean, like her tummy came out from underneath it. She didn't look happy to me. I don't know why. Maybe she was just having a crappy day. I'll never know if she always dressed like that. I'm not trying to lump all heavy people together, but that's just what came to mind when I read this.

And before it starts, yes, I notice it when skinny chicks wear shirts that are too short, too, and I'll be that you do, too.


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## olwen (Nov 29, 2008)

IDigHeavyGuys said:


> I think that too much offense may have been taken in what I said.
> 
> I HAVE seen skinny chicks who don't look as though they care about themselves, but we weren't talking about skinny chicks.
> 
> ...



Maybe her bra was just old or maybe it was laundry day.


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## Lovelyone (Nov 29, 2008)

Personally, if someone is going to make a judgement about me that is based on how I look, whether I've brushed my hair, or if I am made-up well enough for them...I don't want to know them anyway. If you can't accept me in my t-shirts, sweats and slacks, then you wont be liking me without them  

The words "Don't judge a book by its cover" comes to mind.


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## fatgirlflyin (Nov 29, 2008)

olwen said:


> I've encountered comments like that. What bothers me more is the "I don't see you as fat" part. It's like fat is something that has to be overlooked. It just irks me.




In my experience when I've spent a lot of time around someone I seem to stop noticing the physical attributes. For example, I have a friend that's pretty short, when I first met her I'd remember her as the short girl. We've been friends now for about 5 years or so. I don't think of her as the short girl anymore. Just my friend. 

I don't think its about fat having to be overlooked as much as it is that they've gotten to know someone and no longer need to use the physical characteristics to connect the body to the person.


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## fatgirlflyin (Nov 29, 2008)

steely said:


> Why is it that fat women are invisible until you run out for a gallon of milk looking like crap?
> 
> Most people don't look at me twice,actually avoid looking at me,no matter how polite,nice or well dressed I am,but sweet jesus don't look bad.You have no self respect or self esteem.Is it any wonder?



You know what's funny though? I get hit on more often when I'm at the grocery store wearing jeans and a t-shirt with no make up and my hair pulled back. When I'm dressed for work with my hair done, makeup done, and in heels I get nothin...


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## Happenstance (Nov 29, 2008)

How do you correct someone who makes a comment like that, though? The person who says 'I don't see you as fat' probably thinks they are absolutely making your day. It may be best to take it as the compliment it was intended to be, or to say, 'Thank you, but I am, and don't forget it.' I don't want my physical appearance to define me, and, granted, that is rather what people do by noticing if someone is notably well-groomed, but yet it's also entirely different. Humans are a naturally negative race - people tend to fixate on negative things and forget about positive things. (We have a media that thrives on this notion.) So if someone, such as Ruth's co-worker, who may have a negative impression of fat people in general, should have the open-mindedness to look beyond her size and receive a positive, if discarded impression, that is not a bad thing. If someone forgets that I am fat, I do not feel obliged to remind them, but rather I am thankful that I am seen for what qualities they may appreciate me for.

I myself have a housemate who can be... intolerant of things. He's a friendly and sympathetic person, and doesn't consider himself intolerant, but has difficulty seeing anything besides the way they are in his head. More relevantly, he has a history of making jokes of fat people. But the last time he mentioned viewing someone negatively because of their size, (which has been much less frequently,) he sounded somewhat ashamed for having that opinion. Perhaps all such people need is a big person in their lives to show them how prejudiced they are.


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## TraciJo67 (Nov 29, 2008)

olwen said:


> Maybe her bra was just old or maybe it was laundry day.




Well, if she's walking around in public wearing an ill-fitting white t-shirt and no bra ... chances are good that no, she really *doesn't* care what anyone else thinks of her appearance.


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## mossystate (Nov 29, 2008)

I just got an image in my head of my roomie. Now, he is not a woman, so some might think it is ok...but......

As roomie is a very busy man, he is sometimes around the apartment only on Sundays, and not every Sunday. That is his only day to do....zip. If roomie wants to go out and get some take-out, or he needs cookies...whatever....well, let's just say that lots of people would think very particular thoughts about him.

He will not brush his hair ( which has curl to it ) and it might stick out at a million different angles. If he wore a certain lovely pair of bright red sweatpants to bed, well, that is what he stays in, for his lil trip. A teeshirt that has a rip?...well, let's leave it on. As for his footwear, he will grab a pair of sneakers, and they might be the black and white ones that he uses when he plays Frisbee golf ( yeah, wtf ) and are a little battered and grass stained. If it is cold, he will slip on a hugely oversized sweatshirt ( my favorite is when he pairs a red sweatshirt, with his Santa pants ).

He truly does not care what other people think. I am more than sure that many people profile him.

Now, when he has a class ( he is a very sought after teacher of printing, Photoshop, and other things of that ilk ) he is always sure his clothing is clean...ironed...free of holes...and look ' nice '.

People prioritize all kinds of things in their lives. I might not want to be seen with roomie when he is in one a few ....particular outfits....but, that is about me.....not him.


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## CynPart2 (Nov 29, 2008)

Happenstance said:


> So if someone, such as Ruth's co-worker, who may have a negative impression of fat people in general, should have the open-mindedness to look beyond her size and receive a positive, if discarded impression, that is not a bad thing. If someone forgets that I am fat, I do not feel obliged to remind them, but rather I am thankful that I am seen for what qualities they may appreciate me for.



I can see your point, but I'd be inclined to add a light remark about how stereotypes can sometimes be unfounded or silly. Otherwise, they may just conveniently see you as the exception without really broadening their point of view about larger women. 

I remember an almost identical incident back in the 80s when I was the only black kid in a high school. When a classmate casually used the "N" word, she dismissed it by telling me that she didn't think of me as black anymore (so, in her mind, it was okay to make racist jokes, etc). I realized, sadly, that I had been so busy fitting in that I had not actively celebrated the things that made my cultural background distinct and interesting. 

So now, when some comment seems irksome (even if it occasionally comes from my Republican husband), I make it a point to simply speak up -- albeit gently and with humor.


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## Lovelyone (Nov 29, 2008)

Happenstance said:


> How do you correct someone who makes a comment like that, though? The person who says 'I don't see you as fat' probably thinks they are absolutely making your day. It may be best to take it as the compliment it was intended to be, or to say, 'Thank you, but I am, and don't forget it.' I don't want my physical appearance to define me, and, granted, that is rather what people do by noticing if someone is notably well-groomed, but yet it's also entirely different. Humans are a naturally negative race - people tend to fixate on negative things and forget about positive things. (We have a media that thrives on this notion.) So if someone, such as Ruth's co-worker, who may have a negative impression of fat people in general, should have the open-mindedness to look beyond her size and receive a positive, if discarded impression, that is not a bad thing. If someone forgets that I am fat, I do not feel obliged to remind them, but rather I am thankful that I am seen for what qualities they may appreciate me for.
> 
> I myself have a housemate who can be... intolerant of things. He's a friendly and sympathetic person, and doesn't consider himself intolerant, but has difficulty seeing anything besides the way they are in his head. More relevantly, he has a history of making jokes of fat people. But the last time he mentioned viewing someone negatively because of their size, (which has been much less frequently,) he sounded somewhat ashamed for having that opinion. Perhaps all such people need is a big person in their lives to show them how prejudiced they are.



While I am sure that Ruffie's friend meant everything with the best of intentions, sometimes people just don't see that a compliment like that is back-handed and can come out sounding like a lazy insult. It might be easier to point out that the comment was supposed to be well-meaning, but that it has slight undertones of disrespect. That person may not be aware at all that what she said was hurtful. How would she, if you don't tell her? 

I would simply say, "I understand what you are trying to say, but the fact that you have to clarify that you don't see me as fat, shows me that you do (even in a tiny way)--and that is kinda hurtful. I'm not really upset about it, but I prefer that you see me for my personality, or the good things that I do, than to say something like that." 
A good friend would understand and make an attempt not to make offensive remarks and to see you as a person rather than a size.


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## shirmack (Nov 30, 2008)

olwen said:


> You know, it could just be that some women who dress "frumpy" have a hard time finding clothes in their size that fits. It's not that they might not care, it could just be that they hate the clothes they wear and are frustrated by shopping, so they don't do it. I know that's how I felt about clothes for years. Plus money can be a factor too. Getting one's hair done, nails done, facials, waxes, buying makeup, etc can be expensive, and so can buying clothes if you have to do it online.
> 
> I also feel like it's a bit unfair for women to have to go to all the trouble and expense to look so good when men don't. All that girly stuff isn't some innate quality all women are born with. It's learned and it stinks.





Im gonna have to agree with Heavy on this one.... 
Women who leave the house looking gross should really be ashamed of themselves....
Its not a size thing at all or a gender thing...
It takes 10 mins to put on a decent shirt... spray a lil perfume and fix your hair up a lil 
Maybe put on a tich of makeup 
Personally I spend 20 mins getting ready before I leave my house my roomie laughs at me and days I am worse than a girl... 
But if you present yourself as sloppy and lazy people will assume thats how you always are... First Impressions are everything and you cannot take them back


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## Diego (Nov 30, 2008)

Is not like dress sense or hygiene have nothing to do with size. That is a perception people have a lot i think and is wrong.


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## BrunetteBeauty80 (Nov 30, 2008)

I try to wear makeup when I go out places. I used to wear full makeup every single day, and would NEVER be caught anywhere without makeup on. Even the short trip to the grocery store for milk. Then one day my skin sort of "freaked out" and never stopped. I didn't change my brand of makeup or anything. Now, it is rare that I am able to wear makeup. Even the mineral type stuff will make my skin itch and burn so bad I want to claw my face off. I save makeup for special occasions. Like this Thanksgiving I wore some to my future in laws house, and to my parents house. But, I washed it off as soon as I got home, and my skin paid the price. It is still red and blotchy. At work, I am a nurse and am usually busy, so makeup is a hassle. Trying to make sure you don't smudge your lipstick, or eye liner is just something I don't want to deal with. But, my scrubs are always ironed, freshly washed, and my shoes are always clean!

When I go out with my Fiance I wear nice clothing, nice shoes, smell good, and have my hair done. I wear jewelry and a bit of lip gloss or lipstick, but never full on makeup. I still think there are times when I look terrible, because I am unable to cover the scars on my face. But, my fiance thinks I look wonderful, and he knows I am put together. If some random third party can't see it, then why should I care?


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## shirmack (Nov 30, 2008)

BrunetteBeauty80 said:


> I try to wear makeup when I go out places. I used to wear full makeup every single day, and would NEVER be caught anywhere without makeup on. Even the short trip to the grocery store for milk. Then one day my skin sort of "freaked out" and never stopped. I didn't change my brand of makeup or anything. Now, it is rare that I am able to wear makeup. Even the mineral type stuff will make my skin itch and burn so bad I want to claw my face off. I save makeup for special occasions. Like this Thanksgiving I wore some to my future in laws house, and to my parents house. But, I washed it off as soon as I got home, and my skin paid the price. It is still red and blotchy. At work, I am a nurse and am usually busy, so makeup is a hassle. Trying to make sure you don't smudge your lipstick, or eye liner is just something I don't want to deal with. But, my scrubs are always ironed, freshly washed, and my shoes are always clean!
> 
> When I go out with my Fiance I wear nice clothing, nice shoes, smell good, and have my hair done. I wear jewelry and a bit of lip gloss or lipstick, but never full on makeup. I still think there are times when I look terrible, because I am unable to cover the scars on my face. But, my fiance thinks I look wonderful, and he knows I am put together. If some random third party can't see it, then why should I care?



Exactly the point is you TRY to look your best 
its when you stop caring and just don't even try anymore that its disgusting you know?


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## Shosh (Nov 30, 2008)

BrunetteBeauty80 said:


> I try to wear makeup when I go out places. I used to wear full makeup every single day, and would NEVER be caught anywhere without makeup on. Even the short trip to the grocery store for milk. Then one day my skin sort of "freaked out" and never stopped. I didn't change my brand of makeup or anything. Now, it is rare that I am able to wear makeup. Even the mineral type stuff will make my skin itch and burn so bad I want to claw my face off. I save makeup for special occasions. Like this Thanksgiving I wore some to my future in laws house, and to my parents house. But, I washed it off as soon as I got home, and my skin paid the price. It is still red and blotchy. At work, I am a nurse and am usually busy, so makeup is a hassle. Trying to make sure you don't smudge your lipstick, or eye liner is just something I don't want to deal with. But, my scrubs are always ironed, freshly washed, and my shoes are always clean!
> 
> When I go out with my Fiance I wear nice clothing, nice shoes, smell good, and have my hair done. I wear jewelry and a bit of lip gloss or lipstick, but never full on makeup. I still think there are times when I look terrible, because I am unable to cover the scars on my face. But, my fiance thinks I look wonderful, and he knows I am put together. If some random third party can't see it, then why should I care?



Sometimes the quality of the makeup can make a difference. I use Mac and that seems quite good.

Maybe you should try a more natural line of makeup with less chemicals?

I have just finished my fourth Fraxel laser treatment, and my skin is glowing and the tone is more even, which will allow me to wear less foundation etc.

I want to have permanent eyeliner applied to my eyes, which should last several years before it needs a touch up. I am not sure that I am allowed to have it though as it is technically tattooing, and that is forbidden in my religion. I am not sure.

My friend had hers done and it looks amazing, and she hardly spends any time getting ready, and of course it does not smudge.


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## olwen (Nov 30, 2008)

sprintpimp said:


> Im gonna have to agree with Heavy on this one....
> Women who leave the house looking gross should really be ashamed of themselves....
> Its not a size thing at all or a gender thing...
> It takes 10 mins to put on a decent shirt... spray a lil perfume and fix your hair up a lil
> ...



I think you just totally missed the point of what I was trying to say. Totally missed it.


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## superodalisque (Nov 30, 2008)

i was just thinking... sometimes people are judged negatively when they present themselves in a certain way just because people don't always feel like dealing with a downer. even though i take people on an individual basis i know i find it kind of depressing to be looking at someone who doesn't care--for whatever reason. it just makes me think they are sad depressed or thier life is just bad. or maybe they are one of those people who feel that the world is out to get them. when your working hard on moving forward yourself you just dont feel like dealing with people who have already given up or can't see the good in anything. lack of pleasure in a persons life is a tiresome characteristic to deal with. i know that i am more likely to gravitate toward people who make me feel that life is good at least some of the time. i think maybe the cheerfulness factor is under rated. it might not be about trying to be negative and just descriminating against people. it might just be about trying to keep away from toxic people who might not see the good in life. so when you look like you don't care people might not feel like dealing with you.


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## Tragdor (Nov 30, 2008)

Everybody has obeservational bias. So everyone will seek out what they already belive is true and focus on it and generalize their observation. This is why we have to fight the concepts people hold about fat people more then anything else


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## olwen (Nov 30, 2008)

Tragdor said:


> Everybody has obeservational bias. So everyone will seek out what they already belive is true and focus on it and generalize their observation. This is why we have to fight the concepts people hold about fat people more then anything else



Well said. I agree. I honestly don't make judgements about people based only on how they look. I watch for body language too. Someone who isn't so put together can just be having a bad day or just plain be tired. I just came from the gym. I'm wearing no makeup, beat up sneakers, my hair is every which way, droopy sweat pants, and a beat up t-shirt, and I'm tired and I look tired. I just think it's kind of funny that someone would look at me and think that because I'm fat (and gee, fat people must not exercise ), I don't have myself together or that something must be wrong with me, rather than think hey, maybe she just spent and hour and a half at the gym, no wonder she looks that way. 

I've seen people who look very put together who still give off an air of abject misery. Just how someone is dressed means nothing. There's always more going on underneath the surface with people no matter what they look like.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Nov 30, 2008)

After reading Olwen's post, I thought about the time I have seen people that aren't "made up" like I am. What catches my eye about them is if they don't seem to care what others think....and exude an air of confidence. I actually find myself a bit fascinated by them......

It's kind of ironic that people that are "made up" are being deemed self confident or "care about themselves".....I rarely leave my home without being made up. I didn't always have the confidence to do so otherwise.


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## 1300 Class (Nov 30, 2008)

> Im gonna have to agree with Heavy on this one....
> Women who leave the house looking gross should really be ashamed of themselves....
> Its not a size thing at all or a gender thing...
> It takes 10 mins to put on a decent shirt... spray a lil perfume and fix your hair up a lil
> ...


Gosh, vanity thy name certainly is...



> God forbid a young man like myself _enjoy_ flipping the bird.


This is the moment we need to take a stand against this culture of vulgarity, replace pidgin ghetto-speak with fruity bons mots and dry witticisms.






_We must take a stand_!


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## HottiMegan (Nov 30, 2008)

edx said:


> Just to mention, a lot of women become fat, or fatter, either with pregnancy or when they have young children. Which is also times when looking pulled together may be way down on their priority list.
> 
> I’ve seen this effect at my son’s school, where over a number of years you’ll see women starting kids in junior kindergarten, living in old jeans and worn t-shirts, or else have some other &#8216;mom uniform’ that they can put on quickly each day without putting any substantial time or energy into choosing it. Hair is likewise usually in a low maintenance cut, and make up is apt to be minimal. After a few years, probably averaging grade two but it does vary, you seem to start seeing more make up, new hair styles, and slightly more styling clothes. Which of course is happening once the family has adapted to the kid being in school full time, and the kid is getting more independent.
> 
> ...



You just described how i am day to day. I'm a mom of youngsters, I normally don't wear makeup but I usually have my hair in a ponytail and wear a teeshirt and jeans since it's easiest. I'm lucky to get a shower daily with the baby around. I care but not enough to make a fuss when it's just my boys looking at me. My husband thinks im breathtaking regardless of how gross i feel.

eta: I don't get why putting make up on shows that you care about how you look. I don't wear make up but i'm clean and have my hair brushed. How is that sloppy? I hate wearing makeup, it's itchy and uncomfortable. I only wear it when on a date or going out with friends.


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## 1300 Class (Nov 30, 2008)

"sprintpimp", the post was like firmly 'tongue in cheek', maybe if you wern't constantly so hostile (as indicated by the inclination to make vulgar hand gestures), you might have been able to deduce that.


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## Santaclear (Nov 30, 2008)

sprintpimp said:


> Exactly the point is you TRY to look your best
> its when you stop caring and just don't even try anymore that its disgusting you know?



Nah. You're convincing a lot of us to stop caring.


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## squidgemonster (Dec 1, 2008)

I wish my ex-partner would make an effort to look good,we have been split up 9 plus years and since then has never cared about her appearance,she would be in reality a beautiful 320 lb BBW but she never gives that impression ,therefore she has never found the FA she wants.and has been on her own since 1999.


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## Spanky (Dec 1, 2008)

This thread looks like fun. I am rooting for the old peoples. 

<grabs for the Prep H, peepers and Metamucil>

<hits "subscribe">


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## mossystate (Dec 1, 2008)

* hunkers down with popcorn and pop, and waits for the razor sharp debate stylings of sprint ...dozes off, as old people tend to do when the action is lacking *


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## No-No-Badkitty (Dec 1, 2008)

Boy, I am guilty of looking like crap. But then I am usually on my hands in knees in the mud, digging fence posts, pulling fence, mucking kennels, building something, painting something, there there was that incident last year when I had to use the pressure washer to dig out some fence burried 2+ feet in beautiful GA red clay. I had to wear plastic bags over my body to get to the shower after that one 
I also like to look nice. I love to dress up and have fun. But sometimes life just doesn't give you the time to do that. Yeah, it would seem that cleaning up would be just as easy as throwing on a clean shirt and running a comb through your hair...but in my life and my work....that'd last me about 30 seconds before I was knee deep in slop, mud, and hair


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## Blackjack (Dec 1, 2008)

sprintpimp said:


> Just goes to show you how if your opinion falls out of the mainstream your trash on these boards ...



Really, it has nothing to do with your opinion and everything to do with how you presented it and yourself.

Insulting the other board members here definitely isn't helping you, either.


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## TraciJo67 (Dec 1, 2008)

mossystate said:


> * hunkers down with popcorn and pop, and waits for the razor sharp debate stylings of sprint ...dozes off, as old people tend to do when the action is lacking *



The kernels don't wreak havoc with your dentures?!?!!? Or do you just gum it to death?


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## shirmack (Dec 1, 2008)

Blackjack said:


> Really, it has nothing to do with your opinion and everything to do with how you presented it and yourself.
> 
> Insulting the other board members here definitely isn't helping you, either.



Just returning fire man... 
I am noones bitch and do not take kindly to being insulted for my opinion.


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## mossystate (Dec 1, 2008)

sprintpimp said:


> Just returning fire man...
> I am noones bitch and do not take kindly to being insulted for my opinion.





You were not insulted, and for a guy who seems to pride himself on being able to take stuff that is not totally sugar coated, you seem to be a fluffball.


You spoke of first impressions....I said that your first impression might be viewed as anything but good. 

That...is....not...insulting...you...for....an....opinion. It is someone paying attention and voicing _their_ opinion and pointing out your seeming inconsistencies. Certainly your years as a great debator allowed you to spend time separating and understanding such comments.


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## TraciJo67 (Dec 1, 2008)

mossystate said:


> You were not insulted, and for a guy who seems to pride himself on being able to take stuff that is not totally sugar coated, you seem to be a fluffball.
> 
> 
> You spoke of first impressions....I said that your first impression might be viewed as anything but good.
> ...



*My* years as a great debator taught me how to yell really loudly and to cram eight thousand words into one ginormous & only vaguely understood run-on sentence. What did it learn you, Mr. Pimp? :bow:


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## elle camino (Dec 1, 2008)

hahah this guy took a sentiment i actually agree with (in general people should take care of themselves and give a crap about how they present themselves to the world, blahblah), and douched it up so royally that i can't even get behind the concept anymore.

you're kicked out of youth, sprintpimp.


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## Tad (Dec 1, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> *My* years as a great debator taught me how to yell really loudly and to cram eight thousand words into one ginormous & only vaguely understood run-on sentence. What did it learn you, Mr. Pimp? :bow:



I only did one year of debating, from which I really only learned two things:

1) There are some amazing women involved in debating.

2) There's bonus points for heckling.

Extrapolate this, and you get my marriage 

Actually there was one other thing....there are certain people in debating, usually guys, who seemed to think that debating was a license to be a bulldog, grabbing onto something and not letting it go, and not caring what damage they might do in the process. They generally did not end up with the amazing women of debating. We used to euphemistically suggest that they were certainly 'master debaters.' So I guess I learned that we can all be immature, but some are more blatant about it than others.


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## Spanky (Dec 1, 2008)

Back to on topic. I was thinking about all of the talk surrounding Mr. Obama and then African-Americans having to work <some multiple> harder than anyone others to get to the same level that non-AA's work to get to. 

Is it at all possible that by the mere fact of being overweight or fat that you are held to a higher threshold by society for being considered well groomed, clean or "not slovenly". That fat people have to "work <some multiple>" harder than thin people to reach that same threshold. 

That then leads to the question (one I am posing to myself right now) about WHY fat people are considered this way more than thin. Do we teach it to our children? Is it shown on the cartoons they watch? Is it some sort of innate feeling we have? If 99 44/100% of Americans were fat, would the 54/100% still be judgmental?


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## fatgirlflyin (Dec 1, 2008)

Spanky said:


> Back to on topic. I was thinking about all of the talk surrounding Mr. Obama and then African-Americans having to work <some multiple> harder than anyone others to get to the same level that non-AA's work to get to.
> 
> Is it at all possible that by the mere fact of being overweight or fat that you are held to a higher threshold by society for being considered well groomed, clean or "not slovenly". That fat people have to "work <some multiple>" harder than thin people to reach that same threshold.
> 
> That then leads to the question (one I am posing to myself right now) about WHY fat people are considered this way more than thin. Do we teach it to our children? Is it shown on the cartoons they watch? Is it some sort of innate feeling we have? If 99 44/100% of Americans were fat, would the 54/100% still be judgmental?




Because fat = bad, lazy and unclean. So in theory, fat people have to pay extra attention to how they present themselves in public as to dispel that stereotype.


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## Spanky (Dec 1, 2008)

edx said:


> 1) There are some amazing women involved in debating.
> 
> 2) There's bonus points for heckling.
> 
> Extrapolate this, and you get my marriage




Here is the marriage I am thinking of. You know....."there's that spice again".

You guess the movie.


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## Tad (Dec 1, 2008)

Spanky said:


> Back to on topic. I was thinking about all of the talk surrounding Mr. Obama and then African-Americans having to work <some multiple> harder than anyone others to get to the same level that non-AA's work to get to.
> 
> Is it at all possible that by the mere fact of being overweight or fat that you are held to a higher threshold by society for being considered well groomed, clean or "not slovenly". That fat people have to "work <some multiple>" harder than thin people to reach that same threshold.
> 
> That then leads to the question (one I am posing to myself right now) about WHY fat people are considered this way more than thin. Do we teach it to our children? Is it shown on the cartoons they watch? Is it some sort of innate feeling we have? If 99 44/100% of Americans were fat, would the 54/100% still be judgmental?



"must spread some reputation around...."

That is a good question.

I agree with Ella Bella that some of it is stereotypes.

I wonder if some of it too is fashion/modern clothing styles? If our fundamental clothing styles tend not to complement rounder bodies well? So that you have either the choice of not wearing 'normal' clothing, or wearing clothing that is poorly suited to your body? 

(This line of thought was partially inspired by this post on the BHM board: http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1008775&postcount=1 )


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## tonynyc (Dec 1, 2008)

edx said:


> I wonder if some of it too is fashion/modern clothing styles? If our fundamental clothing styles tend not to complement rounder bodies well? So that you have either the choice of not wearing 'normal' clothing, or wearing clothing that is poorly suited to your body?



Or the most expensive option of all (for those who cannot sew) getting your clothes altered...


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## superodalisque (Dec 1, 2008)

Spanky said:


> Back to on topic. I was thinking about all of the talk surrounding Mr. Obama and then African-Americans having to work <some multiple> harder than anyone others to get to the same level that non-AA's work to get to.
> 
> Is it at all possible that by the mere fact of being overweight or fat that you are held to a higher threshold by society for being considered well groomed, clean or "not slovenly". That fat people have to "work <some multiple>" harder than thin people to reach that same threshold.
> 
> That then leads to the question (one I am posing to myself right now) about WHY fat people are considered this way more than thin. Do we teach it to our children? Is it shown on the cartoons they watch? Is it some sort of innate feeling we have? If 99 44/100% of Americans were fat, would the 54/100% still be judgmental?



the fact is that the stereotype is there. it did not come out of thin air otherwise it would not be a steretype. the prejudice is there. its a waste of time to worry about the fairness or unfairness of it. the question is how do you change it. as an AA if you spent all of your time worrying about the steretype instead of actively dispelling it you end up still having a hard time. the same with being fat. fair is just a grade they give out in elementary school. life is not fair for a lot of people. we just have to give people a new steretype. i think its a waste of time trying to teach people about the realities behind the stereotypes because most people don't care that much. they care about what they see right in front of them at that moment. its faster and more effective to just replace the stereotype.


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## Fascinita (Dec 1, 2008)

Spanky said:


> That then leads to the question (one I am posing to myself right now) about WHY fat people are considered this way more than thin. Do we teach it to our children? Is it shown on the cartoons they watch? Is it some sort of innate feeling we have? If 99 44/100% of Americans were fat, would the 54/100% still be judgmental?



Fat's "floppiness" and unpredictability (try to predict the pattern of dimples on a thigh) is equated with sloppiness for the same reason that all fat military recruits end up being abused by drill sergeants in 80s movies: purported lack of discipline, unruliness, and the suggestion that fat people will not be controlled.


"A pledge pin, Mister?!"


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## superodalisque (Dec 1, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Fat's "floppiness" and unpredictability (try to predict the pattern of dimples on a thigh) is equated with sloppiness for the same reason that all fat military recruits end up being abused by drill sergeants in 80s movies: purported lack of discipline, unruliness, and the suggestion that fat people will not be controlled.
> 
> 
> "A pledge pin, Mister?!"



i'm not so sure of that. i'm a really soft squishy super and pretty floppy but people that i know don't characterize me as sloppy. and i know other "floppy" ssbbws that people don't see as sloppy either.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Dec 1, 2008)

Spanky said:


> This thread looks like fun. I am rooting for the old peoples.
> 
> <grabs for the Prep H, peepers and Metamucil>
> 
> <hits "subscribe">




Oh I see more geriatric goodness has joined le thread.......NOW the pimping can REALLY begin :batting: :wubu:



Spanky said:


> If 99 44/100% of Americans were fat, would the 54/100% still be judgmental?



Don't know.....but I DO know they would damn sure be quiet


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## Fascinita (Dec 1, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i'm not so sure of that. i'm a really soft squishy super and pretty floppy but people that i know don't characterize me as sloppy. and i know other "floppy" ssbbws that people don't see as sloppy either.



But your friends are probably much nicer than your typical Gunnery Sergeant, Felicia. Lee Ermey is a walking ball of rage in _Full Metal Jacket_--but it's the same pointed rage directed at fat bodies that's toned down, way down, when someone casually lets fly that "You sure know how to groom, for a fat person."

I'm using the military analogy because I think it illustrates the hyper-emphasis on discipline that the culture demands of bodies in general. Fat people, by virtue of exceeding their allotted weight and of overflowing past their expected boundaries, break the mold of what's demanded out of bodies. We refuse compliance and are said to lack will and discipline. The analogy is martial for a reason: Our bodies exist under a code/law and regimen that dictates what's permissible and what not. To say that a fat person is "sloppy" is to say that she lacks discipline and respect for the code/law, is to say that she is an outlaw of sorts. A fat person who grooms well has been brought back under compliance, at least to the extent that her happy hair helps tone down the anarchy suggested by her flab.

I think there's something to that.


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## B68 (Dec 1, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Oh I see more geriatric goodness has joined le thread.......NOW the pimping can REALLY begin :batting: :wubu:



Well, i think he posted that because i posted some incredibly smart reply to pimples. Too bad the moderators took it away...

Or maybe they outsmarted me...


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## Tragdor (Dec 1, 2008)

elle camino said:


> hahah this guy took a sentiment i actually agree with (in general people should take care of themselves and give a crap about how they present themselves to the world, blahblah), and douched it up so royally that i can't even get behind the concept anymore.
> 
> you're kicked out of youth, sprintpimp.



Man I hope I don't get kicked out of the young people. 

Good thing I got rid of those Jimmy Buffet and Neil Diamond CDs. The Young Person Cultural Authority Defence Leauge might have taken issue with them


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## Fascinita (Dec 1, 2008)

B68 said:


> Or maybe they outsmarted me...




Smarts don't really count so much, as long as your dress is suitably smart. If your tie were neater, you'd know that.


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## B68 (Dec 1, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Smarts don't really count so much, as long as your dress is suitably smart. If your tie were neater, you'd know that.



I do know. That i look pretty hot in a dress and a tie... 

Just try to convince these young 'sprinting from their pimples'...


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## olwen (Dec 1, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> the fact is that the stereotype is there. it did not come out of thin air otherwise it would not be a steretype. the prejudice is there. its a waste of time to worry about the fairness or unfairness of it. the question is how do you change it. as an AA if you spent all of your time worrying about the steretype instead of actively dispelling it you end up still having a hard time. the same with being fat. fair is just a grade they give out in elementary school. life is not fair for a lot of people. we just have to give people a new steretype. i think its a waste of time trying to teach people about the realities behind the stereotypes because most people don't care that much. they care about what they see right in front of them at that moment. its faster and more effective to just replace the stereotype.



I have to disagree somewhat. Let's really examine this stereotype. Fat people are stupid, ugly, lazy, sloppy. These same exact words have been said about Jews, gays, blacks, and women at some point in history. Recent history in fact. And with each group, people tried to justify those claims with medical "facts." All groups have been demonized, all groups have been villified. I think the reasons were in all cases to maintain the status quo. As each group gains more power in some way or becomes more visible in society they become "threats" to those with all the power. So those stereotypes did come from somewhere, and to say that in this case stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason just makes me angry. I'm no stereotype. 

Yes, we do need to try to dispel such negative claims, and we do it by setting good examples, however, to me, this sloppy business goes a little beyond just going out and looking good all the time. It's impractical for every fat person all the time because we all don't live the same lives. Same as thin people. We don't say the same things about thin people who go around looking frazzled, tired, sloppy do we? No, we just think, something must be going on in their lives instead of making blanket statements about the emotional state of all thin people. It sounds ridiculous. 

As far as I'm concerned, the best way for me to go out and be a good example of a good little fat person is to just go out and live my life the way I live it. The more we just do what we do and make ourselves seen and heard doing awesome things, the more others will get used to our presence. It's exactly what jews, gays, women, and blacks have done and look where we are now. Eugenics is a silly sounding word, women can be CEOs, and electroshock therapy is considered barbaric, and blacks can be president of the USA. One day people will think fat people have as much right to exist as anyone else and this stereotype will sound as silly as it actually is.


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## pepso (Dec 1, 2008)

If you want to be pissed at anyone for all the ridiculous stereotypes about larger people (As of yet, out of all the fatter people I hang out with or talk to, which probably is 10-20 who I know, there might be..... none who follow any of the stereotypes other than a few with a larger appetite, and a few who never exercise.) Honestly, the people who fit the stereotypes, the lazy, stupid, sloppy, generally do not care, make up a small part of the larger population, and would be the same assholes if they were thin. Size doesn't make an asshole, and an asshole doesn't make a size. They just happen to exist everywhere.

But, lets just skip that and just hate statistics, its gotten to the point things are just studied for the hell of being studied, like the recent statistic saying fat people are more likely to have cancer. Well no shit, you probably did a survey including inactive and unhealthy fat people. There are thin people who can just process food a bit faster and more efficiently, and are just as unhealthy. We don't understand the body nearly enough to attribute something like size to cancer. We don't even fully understand how cancer works. So how could we possibly understand all the factors weight would attribute. There are a scant few conditions with conclusive proof a patient with a high weight and a healthy lifestyle would be horribly effected by, and most are not caused by the size, but are pre-existing, and affected by it.


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## steely (Dec 1, 2008)

No,no,no,I like the study where fat people sit closer to the chinese buffet.

You,let me rephrase that,I don't live my life thinking about what everybody is thinking about me.Yes,I notice when people stare or make comments but not everyday is like that.You live your life the way you want because in the end,it's your life.All the snide comments,snickers and stares in the world haven't stopped me before and they won't in the future.If I want to run out and get a gallon of milk looking like crap,I will.It won't be the end of the world.
I've seen plenty of other people do the same thing.


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## tonynyc (Dec 1, 2008)

I wonder geography matters? Living in a big city most folks are too wrapped up in their own 'daily' problems to worry if someone else is dressed fashionably or missing an eyelash...


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## steely (Dec 1, 2008)

You may be right about that location thing.When you live in the middle of nowhere,there's not much going on.People notice other people more.


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## ashmamma84 (Dec 1, 2008)

tonynyc said:


> I wonder geography matters? Living in a big city most folks are too wrapped up in their own 'daily' problems to worry if someone else is dressed fashionably or missing an eyelash...



Probably. I live in Chicago and most days I'm on my grind and I just don't have the time to give an iota about what someone else is wearing. HOWEVER, *I* choose to make sure I'm one of the baddest pounding the pavement.


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## wtchmel (Dec 2, 2008)

I've never encountered this to my face, but what they say after I walk away is another story. I believe most people are intimidated by my size and are semi-afraid of me, regardless of what I'm wearing on my body or face. It's nice being a really tall big fat woman sometimes. Not to mention, I don't generally censor myself in public, and will drop the f bomb if i so desire regardless of where I'm at. I hate the fat stereotypes, and feel like smashing those in the face that seem to believe in them.( ok, i'm a tad bit pms-y)


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## butch (Dec 2, 2008)

First, let me say that I <3 Olwen and Fascinita! I want to be like you two when I grow up.

Second, to throw a wrench in things, what if some of these ill-kempt fatties we see at the Wal-Mart are doing it for thrills? How often have we come across guys at this site talking about their latest fattie sighting at the Wal-Mart, and how they are turned on by the full scale fattie stereotype? For all we know, the woman with the belly hanging out her shirt and the braless boobs was trying to 'flush out' the FA in his natural habitat.

 OK, I'm kidding, but you never know. Since I know I get turned on by a too-tight shirt on a fattie, sometimes I'm glad for ill-fitting clothes or a peak of belly in public, even if it signals to the rest of the world something about the wearer being lazy, depressed, etc.


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## Your Plump Princess (Dec 2, 2008)

IDigHeavyGuys said:


> I've actually seen it - bigger women who don't look like they've brushed their hair and are dressed all frumpy. I think that they are women who have no confidence, though, and maybe just think, "Why bother?"


I Know a woman like that.
It's rather sad. 
She is perfectly mobile, but yet won't shower for days. Even when she is going out someplace. Won't brush her hair. Doesn't bother to change her clothes too often. And only sprays herself with febreeze to get rid of any BO she can smell from herself.

I Asked her why one day. And that's exactly what she said to me. 
"Why Bother. I'm Fat. Therefore I'm Ugly. And if they want and expect ugly. Why the hell try to be anything but."

..It's really sad. Just.. Really sad.


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## olwen (Dec 2, 2008)

butch said:


> First, let me say that I <3 Olwen and Fascinita! I want to be like you two when I grow up.
> 
> Second, to throw a wrench in things, what if some of these ill-kempt fatties we see at the Wal-Mart are doing it for thrills? How often have we come across guys at this site talking about their latest fattie sighting at the Wal-Mart, and how they are turned on by the full scale fattie stereotype? For all we know, the woman with the belly hanging out her shirt and the braless boobs was trying to 'flush out' the FA in his natural habitat.
> 
> OK, I'm kidding, but you never know. Since I know I get turned on by a too-tight shirt on a fattie, sometimes I'm glad for ill-fitting clothes or a peak of belly in public, even if it signals to the rest of the world something about the wearer being lazy, depressed, etc.



:blush: I heart you too. :happy:

Ha! The next time I go on a date I'm gonna wear the tightest/stretchiest shirt I own.


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## olwen (Dec 2, 2008)

Your Plump Princess said:


> I Know a woman like that.
> It's rather sad.
> She is perfectly mobile, but yet won't shower for days. Even when she is going out someplace. Won't brush her hair. Doesn't bother to change her clothes too often. And only sprays herself with febreeze to get rid of any BO she can smell from herself.
> 
> ...



But then what did you say to her after she said that?


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## Fascinita (Dec 2, 2008)

butch said:


> First, let me say that I <3 Olwen and Fascinita! I want to be like you two when I grow up.
> 
> Second, to throw a wrench in things, what if some of these ill-kempt fatties we see at the Wal-Mart are doing it for thrills? How often have we come across guys at this site talking about their latest fattie sighting at the Wal-Mart, and how they are turned on by the full scale fattie stereotype? For all we know, the woman with the belly hanging out her shirt and the braless boobs was trying to 'flush out' the FA in his natural habitat.




butch, <3 back at you 

Hey, speaking of fattie sightings, you'd have been proud of me tonight as I attempted to climb into one of those vehicles that are too high for fatties to step up into in one step--plus there was no handle inside to grab onto, PLUS the door was too narrow. lololol When I finally managed to whoopsie-daisy-myself onboard, I told the driver that, "THIS IS NOT AN EASY VEHICLE TO BE FAT IN." We laughed.

Guess what I was carrying in my left hand?

A sandwich.


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## fatgirlflyin (Dec 2, 2008)

olwen said:


> But then what did you say to her after she said that?



THAT is the million dollar question. I hope she had a million dollar answer.


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## superodalisque (Dec 3, 2008)

olwen said:


> I have to disagree somewhat. Let's really examine this stereotype. Fat people are stupid, ugly, lazy, sloppy. These same exact words have been said about Jews, gays, blacks, and women at some point in history. Recent history in fact. And with each group, people tried to justify those claims with medical "facts." All groups have been demonized, all groups have been villified. I think the reasons were in all cases to maintain the status quo. As each group gains more power in some way or becomes more visible in society they become "threats" to those with all the power. So those stereotypes did come from somewhere, and to say that in this case stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason just makes me angry. I'm no stereotype.
> 
> Yes, we do need to try to dispel such negative claims, and we do it by setting good examples, however, to me, this sloppy business goes a little beyond just going out and looking good all the time. It's impractical for every fat person all the time because we all don't live the same lives. Same as thin people. We don't say the same things about thin people who go around looking frazzled, tired, sloppy do we? No, we just think, something must be going on in their lives instead of making blanket statements about the emotional state of all thin people. It sounds ridiculous.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, the best way for me to go out and be a good example of a good little fat person is to just go out and live my life the way I live it. The more we just do what we do and make ourselves seen and heard doing awesome things, the more others will get used to our presence. It's exactly what jews, gays, women, and blacks have done and look where we are now. Eugenics is a silly sounding word, women can be CEOs, and electroshock therapy is considered barbaric, and blacks can be president of the USA. One day people will think fat people have as much right to exist as anyone else and this stereotype will sound as silly as it actually is.



i understand your point. but also you've made my point in the last paragraph. a person does have to live thier life to the fullest and not fall into the trap people lay for us in the form of self fulfilling prophecies. all of this talk of what fat people can't do because of prejudice is not the type of thing that helps. fat people are doing awesome things everyday in the face of lots of adversity. i know for sure that a lot of ssbbws (not to exclude anyone else) are superwomen in more ways than one. more have to and not be ashamed to be more visible doing it. a lot aren't doing just that because they don't have the emotinal energy to project what they need to on the outside. with all that you still just have to make the extra effort and push--like giving birth to a new identity, the true one. 

if you asked most people when they looked closest to their ideal of themselves they wouldn't pick moments when they were at their sloppiest or dirtiest or most down trodden. we are going to have those moments sure, but we can't let that moment stretch into a lifetime. its unfair to us as people. we are not showing the true picture we have of ourselves to the world. i think we are totally someone else if we don't.

all of those groups you mentioned improved their stature by outperforming the stereotype and having relations with people not like them. it was/is a hard road. but they didn't sit around waiting for manna to fall from heaven. they learned how to bake bread.


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## Pitch (May 14, 2011)

IDigHeavyGuys said:


> I've actually seen it - bigger women who don't look like they've brushed their hair and are dressed all frumpy. I think that they are women who have no confidence, though, and maybe just think, "Why bother?"




I know -all- big women aren't that way? But I am one of the ones who is or was. I always wore men's clothes and barely brushed or messed with my hair (I have collected about 3294u23491239043432eleventy bajillion bandannas in the last 8 years or so) and though it grows fast and maybe because of it? I have had to shave my head (though it felt awesome) a few times because I wouldnt brush it. I figured "Who cares, I'm invisible anyway".


Only recently have I started to have fun taking care of my skin instead of loathing or complaining about it, choosing soaps that treat me nicely and using them twice a day instead of someone's crusty Old Spice every 2-3 days and just being good to me. I'm also trying to slowly phase myself out of T-shirts and denim that's ALL too tattered and into things I feel nice in. It's hard not to internalize the vitriol of a society that tells you at every turn that you are worthless, lazy, shitty, mean and deserve (or are going to) die; thus making the country a tiny bit more palatable for thinner people.

Just saying, I know what it's like.

However, I shouldnt be so hard on myself with the tattered clothes thing. I am very poor and burn my work-wear often with molten glass. >.> Still, for someone who feels like an androgyne wanting to be a woman? I DONT WANT THE CRAP ANYMORE.


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## olwen (May 14, 2011)

Pitch said:


> I know -all- big women aren't that way? But I am one of the ones who is or was. I always wore men's clothes and barely brushed or messed with my hair (I have collected about 3294u23491239043432eleventy bajillion bandannas in the last 8 years or so) and though it grows fast and maybe because of it? I have had to shave my head (though it felt awesome) a few times because I wouldnt brush it. I figured "Who cares, I'm invisible anyway".
> 
> 
> Only recently have I started to have fun taking care of my skin instead of loathing or complaining about it, choosing soaps that treat me nicely and using them twice a day instead of someone's crusty Old Spice every 2-3 days and just being good to me. I'm also trying to slowly phase myself out of T-shirts and denim that's ALL too tattered and into things I feel nice in. It's hard not to internalize the vitriol of a society that tells you at every turn that you are worthless, lazy, shitty, mean and deserve (or are going to) die; thus making the country a tiny bit more palatable for thinner people.
> ...



I get where you are coming from. I used to feel that way too. Like why bother with fashion and girly stuff if none of it is made for me and people like me are not the audience? I dunno, one year I just decided fuck it, I want to wear nice clothes and be feminine. I discovered fatshionista.com that year too, so that probably helped. So did the fashion board here. Once I realized I could find nice clothes in my size that was it. I also decided to lock my hair so it would get long. Don't even get me started about how my hair affects my feelings of femininity. I wore an afro for years, shaved it for a while, gotten extensions...none of that helped me feel feminine. Locks on the other hand. I love em...I'm rambling, what was my point...oh right, that now that I know where to get clothes I'm excited about fashion. The weather is getting nice too so since most of my nice clothes are for spring/summer (lots of skirts and dresses, fancy tank tops) I'll feel good walking around looking feminine even while drenched in sweat. LOL


ETA: Also tho, I'm starting to feel feminine in t-shirts and jeans too, tho I haven't interrogated quite why yet...maybe it really is just having longer hair, or maybe it's wearing the right kind of bra (one that lifts and separates rather than minimize....I dunno...).


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## 1love_emily (May 14, 2011)

I hate it how people act surprised that I look nicely on a nearly-daily basis. Yes, sometimes I wear regular old t-shirts from various activities/clubs/vacation spots, but it's always with nice jeans and cute shoes. I don't understand why mainstream people believe that fat people can't look nice. *aside to skinny people* You know, they make clothes in large sizes so I can wear them too. AND they make stores with fashionable clothes for fat people. SHOCKER.

What really bugs me is when people assume I smell bad. It's one of my paranoias actually.... I ALWAYS wear perfume, deodorant, brush my teeth and shower so that I DONT stink.


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## BBW_Curious1 (May 15, 2011)

I think it really all boils down to personality--I am one of those anything goes girls--meaning sometimes I walk out the door in sweats with my hair up--and other times I am donning the sexy dress and heels--hair and make up done etc. BUT on the days I'm wearing sweats I still look the world in the face, smile, and I never hang my head because I'm fat. 

Some women (and men) avoid people because they really aren't confident--no matter what they're wearing AND by the way not all of the people who fall into this category are BBW/BHM/SSBBW etc. 

The age old expression Confidence=Sexy rings true yet again and people notice--from the woman in your workplace to the cashier at the grocery store. Now, let's not mistakenly think that we can all exude confidence 24/7/365 but eye contact and a smile does wonders for how people treat you i've noticed...just my 2 cents


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## hiddenexposure (May 15, 2011)

I was definitely a baggy shirt, hide from the world girl for years. My mom instilled in me that I needed to make sure I was presentable but that was more a clothing ironed type thing. It was not until I really got into the music scene here that I started getting into clothing. After finding places like fatshionista.com etc I really started taking the time to work on my look and playing with make-up. It was a lot of fun experimenting and there were some definite fashion misteps but it was good to learn. I personally feel like because of that stereotype that "big girls" are lazy and slobs; I have to work 10 times harder to look my best.


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## Fox (May 17, 2011)

It's more false assumption due to stereotyping. People hear it so much, they believe it, and it somehow becomes a standard assumption that big people do not take care of themselves. I think it's wrong. Because I know so many big people who do take care of themselves.


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## mossystate (May 17, 2011)

Fox said:


> It's more false assumption due to stereotyping. People hear it so much, they believe it, and it somehow becomes a standard assumption that big people do not take care of themselves. I think it's wrong. Because I know so many big people who do take care of themselves.



I guess I just don't see more fat people " not taking care of themselves " than I do thin people
Do you think that many people who are not fat hold fat people ( mostly fat women ) to a different and higher standard? 

In your opinion, how do so many fat people " not take care of themselves " ?


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## Lamia (May 17, 2011)

I think fat people tend to stand out more...obviously and therefore if someone has a flaw such as dirty clothes, uncombed hair etc it's going to be more noticeable and add fuel to the fire of why fat people are "gross".


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## Saoirse (May 17, 2011)

wow. some of you must HATE me.

I shower only a few times a week. I rarely brush my hair, mostly put on my favorite hat. I wear the same pants for days. I only put on makeup when Im trying to hit on dudes.

I have reasons for all this. But I dont need to explain anything.


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## LalaCity (May 17, 2011)

Saoirse said:


> I shower only a few times a week. I rarely brush my hair, mostly put on my favorite hat. I wear the same pants for days. I only put on makeup when Im trying to hit on dudes.



I was gonna say "eww" and then I realized I do this myself.


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## Latte (May 17, 2011)

I *can't* shower every day, especially not in the winter. My skin dries out and gets really rough and scaly. I've never been accused of not taking care of myself though unless I'm sick or depressed and well, everyone has bad days. 

I don't think frizzy hair or a lack of makeup is an egregious thing as a fat person. There are plenty of thin people who look the same or worse at the grocery store. It's the perpetuated fat stereotypes that are so damaging. If just by existing in your body you are automatically considered by some people to be "lazy" and "dirty" then it doesn't matter what you're wearing or how put together you are, on some level, they'll always think you're lazier or dirtier than your thinner counterpart. 

The way I prevent those worries about what other people are thinking from getting to me is by thinking"Would I be okay sitting next to myself on a plane?" and if it's yes, I figure I'm fine, because there aren't many situations where you're in closer quarters than on a plane.


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## one2one (May 18, 2011)

olwen said:


> As far as I'm concerned, the best way for me to go out and be a good example of a good little fat person is to just go out and live my life the way I live it. The more we just do what we do and make ourselves seen and heard doing awesome things, the more others will get used to our presence. It's exactly what jews, gays, women, and blacks have done and look where we are now. Eugenics is a silly sounding word, women can be CEOs, and electroshock therapy is considered barbaric, and blacks can be president of the USA. One day people will think fat people have as much right to exist as anyone else and this stereotype will sound as silly as it actually is.



:bow:

I would like this on a poster, please.


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## Saoirse (May 18, 2011)

Latte said:


> I *can't* shower every day, especially not in the winter. My skin dries out and gets really rough and scaly.



There be my main reason! I have super-duper sensitive skin and showering daily would mess me up!


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## PhiloGirl (May 18, 2011)

(Sorry for the double post, everyone... can't find a delete button!)


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## PhiloGirl (May 18, 2011)

*Pitch *said: "*It's hard not to internalize the vitriol of a society that tells you at every turn that you are worthless, lazy, shitty, mean and deserve (or are going to) die; thus making the country a tiny bit more palatable for thinner people.
*
Just saying, I know what it's like.

However, I shouldnt be so hard on myself with the tattered clothes thing. I am very poor and burn my work-wear often with molten glass. >.> Still, for *someone who feels like an androgyne wanting to be a woman?* I DONT WANT THE CRAP ANYMORE"

I know exactly what you mean, and I just wanted to say congratulations for deciding that you deserve to be "girly" if you damn well feel like it. I spent quite a few years (especially in high school) wearing oversized men's clothes that were little more than socially-acceptable substitutes for burlap sacks. I still have a ways to go before I get where I want to be in this arena, but I do feel it's made a difference in the way I see myself.


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## Pitch (May 18, 2011)

PhiloGirl said:


> *Pitch *said: "*It's hard not to internalize the vitriol of a society that tells you at every turn that you are worthless, lazy, shitty, mean and deserve (or are going to) die; thus making the country a tiny bit more palatable for thinner people.
> *
> Just saying, I know what it's like.
> 
> ...



Heh, thanks. I'm still too poor to afford even a single new thing from Carmakoma (their selection is AMAZING) and also keep wearing the big t-shirts and denim and etc in order to hide my fat or...something. Force of habit. But as soon as I get money? I want some fucking ruched pants.

...Dammit.


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## truebebeblue (May 20, 2011)

Most people I see are average in dress and grooming... fat and thin.Jeans,t shirts very utilitarian. I notice when I see well dressed people but I have to admit I am always extra happy to see really fashionable fat women. Luckily this is happening WAY more than say 10 years ago.

I think I do notice really sloppy fat women more than I notice sloppy thin women,but I am a fatty watcher so I am biased. I am pretty much a frump at home but try to always dress cute when I leave home... make up is optional but I feel better/more confident with it on. 

True


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## FatAndProud (May 20, 2011)

I purposely dress sloppy in Detroit lol I don't want to get mugged. However, I can spiffen up in a matter of hours for a job interview or something. 

I don't think the clothes makes someone sloppy. It's how they carry themselves. The more confidence exuded, the more likely people are going to see you for you, rather than the holes in your shirt.


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## fluffyandcute (May 20, 2011)

I have been told by several individuals that I keep myself made up and dress nicely for a large woman. That makes me feel good because I do see alot of women that could keep themselves up a little better. I am not saying go all out with the make-up or hair but there are little things you can do the improve image 
It makes you feel good to get compliments!


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## CastingPearls (May 20, 2011)

fluffyandcute said:


> I have been told by several individuals that I keep myself made up and dress nicely for a large woman. That makes me feel good because I do see alot of women that could keep themselves up a little better. I am not saying go all out with the make-up or hair but there are little things you can do the improve image
> It makes you feel good to get compliments!



I know exactly what you mean but there are way too many thin women who dress like shit for me to ever take anything with 'for a large woman' as a compliment. I think you stand out on your own regardless. I know I do.


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## fluffyandcute (May 20, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> I know exactly what you mean but there are way too many thin women who dress like shit for me to ever take anything with 'for a large woman' as a compliment. I think you stand out on your own regardless. I know I do.



Oh girl I definately know where your coming from!


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## bigmac (May 21, 2011)

Lamia said:


> I think fat people tend to stand out more...obviously and therefore if someone has a flaw such as dirty clothes, uncombed hair etc it's going to be more noticeable and add fuel to the fire of why fat people are "gross".



Yes and also its much more difficult for fat people to look good if they're poor.

-- Discount stores only go up to a small 3x (sometimes 4x);

-- Plus sizes are almost impossible to find in thrift stores;

-- Washing clothes at a coin operated laundry is a huge expense (walk into one and check out the prices and the tiny size of the least expensive machines). This expense is even greater when your laundry requires either more or bigger machines;

-- Many poor parents spend all their available money on their children -- they wear thread bare clothes so their children can look presentable and not get teased at school.

People shouldn't be so judgmental until they've walked that proverbial mile.


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## chicken legs (May 21, 2011)

Ruffie said:


> I was talking to a staff member the of our organization the other day at work and the subject came up of my size. I said that throughout my life I have been judged by my size, and was treated differently when I was lighter than I am now, although I had always been fat. I was explaining to her some of the things that had happened to me as a large person when she interrupts and says this line. "But Ruth I have never seen you as a big woman. I walked in here for the first day of work and I encountered a beautiful lady whose hair and makeup is well done, dresses very stylishly, and is well groomed. Not very many big woman do that! So I have never seen your size, just a beautiful lady"
> 
> It got me to thinking, how many other people have this belief subconscious that big women don't take care of themselves/have let themselves go. Has anyone else ever encountered comments such as these?
> Ruth



I love this vid and I think you should school her with it...Debunking the rules of plus-size dressing.........Big folks and those who fall on hard times both have the stigma of "not wanting to take care of themselves". Personally both happened to me and those who don't know me think that way all the time. Reality is, I gained on purpose initially and then I fell on hard times. It has made me a wiser person in the long run because I have become less judgmental of people who look a certain way or say stupid stuff.


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## fatgirlflyin (May 22, 2011)

fluffyandcute said:


> I have been told by several individuals that I keep myself made up and dress nicely for a large woman. That makes me feel good because I do see alot of women that could keep themselves up a little better. I am not saying go all out with the make-up or hair but there are little things you can do the improve image
> It makes you feel good to get compliments!





That "for a large woman" is a back handed compliment and just about as judgmental as you saying you see a lot of women that can keep themselves up better.


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## fluffyandcute (May 22, 2011)

fatgirlflyin said:


> That "for a large woman" is a back handed compliment and just about as judgmental as you saying you see a lot of women that can keep themselves up better.



No honey I am not being "Jugdemental"....its called being "Truthful"
Sometimes it hurts! But I was just being honest!


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## mossystate (May 22, 2011)

fluffyandcute said:


> No honey I am not being "Jugdemental"....its called being "Truthful"
> Sometimes it hurts! But I was just being honest!



That is your truth. You assume every fat woman is into the same things you are...or should be. If a fat woman comes to you for some kind of finishing school tips, then knock yourself out.


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## ashmamma84 (May 22, 2011)

mossystate said:


> That is your truth. You assume every fat woman is into the same things you are...or should be. If a fat woman comes to you for some kind of finishing school tips, then knock yourself out.



I agree with this. Style is so individual it's really best left up to ...well, the individual.


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## Shosh (May 22, 2011)

I think all women fat or thin should make an effort to present themselves in the best possible way and make an effort each day.

I think you feel better about yourself if you try to look your best.


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## AmazingAmy (May 22, 2011)

fluffyandcute said:


> I have been told by several individuals that I keep myself made up and dress nicely for a large woman. That makes me feel good because I do see alot of women that could keep themselves up a little better. I am not saying go all out with the make-up or hair but there are little things you can do the improve image
> It makes you feel good to get compliments!



Agreeing with others here. The compliment is tainted in light of the 'larger woman' comment; it _is _back handed. Plus, do you really value compliments that are made comparing you to someone percieved as lesser? I probably look great stood next to that homeless dude in town, but I don't want it to be the only time people think I look good.


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## tinkerbell (May 22, 2011)

Shosh said:


> I think all women fat or thin should make an effort to present themselves in the best possible way and make an effort each day.
> 
> I think you feel better about yourself if you try to look your best.



Really? Why? I feel great about myself, even if I go out without make up, in a crazy outfit, and with my hair in a pony tail. 

Why aren't men held to these same standards? Who really cares what people wear when they go out? I know I don't. 

I didn't read through the rest of the thread, but I think fat women are already perceived as "letting themselves go" because they're fat. People say that all the time - "oh she really let herself go" when they see someone who has gained weight. 

I guess I don't see someone out without make up and think they should have stayed home. I don't really care.


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## ashmamma84 (May 22, 2011)

Shosh said:


> I think all women fat or thin should make an effort to present themselves in the best possible way and make an effort each day.
> 
> I think you feel better about yourself if you try to look your best.



Some women just aren't into fashion and never have been. Its not because they are depressed or don't think "they're worth it". They just might be into other things and my opinion is that we (women) shouldn't really be looking down on anyone because they're not into what we're into. Like you, I make an effort to carry myself well and dress the part but I realize it would be silly of me to hold all women to my personal standard; I wouldn't want another woman doing that to me. 

As long as people are taking care to bathe and are neat, it really should be a non issue.


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## penguin (May 22, 2011)

Shosh said:


> I think all women fat or thin should make an effort to present themselves in the best possible way and make an effort each day.
> 
> I think you feel better about yourself if you try to look your best.



I think it's important to dress for your shape, whatever shape it is. Some clothes are more flattering than others, and it's good to know what suits you and what doesn't. Even if that's choosing a shirt with a V neck over a scoop neck. But that doesn't mean we have to be dressed to our best every day. It's possible to look nice and respectable without getting fancy.


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## fluffyandcute (May 22, 2011)

Shosh said:


> I think all women fat or thin should make an effort to present themselves in the best possible way and make an effort each day.
> 
> I think you feel better about yourself if you try to look your best.



Yes I agree! People think just because your fat you can't be pretty or attractive in todays society. I know this isn't true!


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## hrd (May 22, 2011)

Shosh said:


> I think all women fat or thin should make an effort to present themselves in the best possible way and make an effort each day.
> 
> I think you feel better about yourself if you try to look your best.



For me appearance just isn't a priority; my time, energy and money are better spent elsewhere. I'm sure it surprises some people when I show up, say to an opera premier, sporting whatever I happen to be wearing that day, but I'm not willing to compromise who I am just to suit other people's expectations. If my best friend and one of my sisters can be fashion mavens, then I'm sure it balances things out for me to just throw on the first thing I pull from closet. =)


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## 86waterpumper (May 22, 2011)

I agree with fluffy, nowadays alot of people men and women, thin and not so thin do not take enough care with appearance. This does not mean dress up in a evening gown or suit to do your grocery shopping, however you shoudln't wear your pajams or houseshoes there either, (I've seen this plenty) One should strive to look neat and take care to some extent and you do not have to be rich or spend tons of time & money to do that. Obviously it is everyone's personal preference on how much they want to fix or dress up. Hey if someone wants to go to a wedding, opera, or big event dressed in sweatpants or the first thing they can grab that is fine more power to them. With that being said, do not be surprised when you get looked down upon for that by the general public. It may not be the politically correct thing for other's to judge you based solely on appearance. Let's face it though 99 percent of people are going to do that like it or not, especially on a first impression basis. Some people have a strong enough willpower they do not care what other's think and some seek the approval of others, I guess it is up to the individual to determine what you want to do.


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## EMH1701 (May 22, 2011)

shirmack said:


> Im gonna have to agree with Heavy on this one....
> Women who leave the house looking gross should really be ashamed of themselves....
> Its not a size thing at all or a gender thing...
> It takes 10 mins to put on a decent shirt... spray a lil perfume and fix your hair up a lil
> ...



I see.

So I wear makeup five days a week, dress business casual five days a week, because I have to. Jeans and a T-shirt are the most comfortable, but I am only allowed to wear those to work on Fridays.

On the weekends, I do not wear make up. Of which, I might add, I wear only natural tones because I do not want to look the way my mother did when I was growing up. You see, she had cancer and took it personally when a stupid church member told her she looked pale, so from that day forward she overdid her make up to the point where she looked ridiculous some days. But being the dutiful daughter, I did not say anything to hurt her feelings.

Perhaps you should think before you judge someone as being "gross" the next time you see them.


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## fatgirlflyin (May 22, 2011)

fluffyandcute said:


> No honey I am not being "Jugdemental"....its called being "Truthful"
> Sometimes it hurts! But I was just being honest!




First off, my name isn't honey. Second your truth isn't everyone's truth and just because you think someone can do themselves up a little more really means jack shit in the real world. 

Live your life, dress up for you if that's what makes you happy but that's not everyone's cup of tea. If some woman wants to walk around in sweats with her hair up in a pony tail she's not less than...


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## Dr. Feelgood (May 22, 2011)

86waterpumper said:


> Hey if someone wants to go to a wedding, opera, or big event dressed in sweatpants or the first thing they can grab that is fine more power to them. With that being said, do not be surprised when you get looked down upon for that by the general public.



Or you can move to Oklahoma, where sweats are considered formal attire.


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## fatgirlflyin (May 22, 2011)

tinkerbell said:


> Why aren't men held to these same standards?



Because men don't sit around telling each other how to dress or wear their hair. Hell, half the time the men don't even really care about the make up or the fancy clothes women put on.


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## Surlysomething (May 22, 2011)

As long as i'm neat and tidy I could really give a rat's ass what people think of me.

I do agree with dress your size, but to a point. If you're just hanging out on the weekend I don't think you need to look the same as you would during the work week where you have an appropriate dress code for your job. I love being comfy in capris and tee-shirts on the weekend and often they're over-sized for comfort.

I personally like to look a bit stylish wherever I go, but it's not hard to incorporate that into your everyday life. To each his own as long as you don't stink and your hair is somewhat tame. Haha.


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## chicken legs (May 23, 2011)

Shosh said:


> I think all women fat or thin should make an effort to present themselves in the best possible way and make an effort each day.
> 
> I think you feel better about yourself if you try to look your best.



So true. I love watching make over shows because the person gets a different perspective and then they see how people treat them in return. Having someone pamper you or just taking a time out to regroup really helps the soul. It doesn't require tons of make up, hours in the gym or salon, or whatever. It just requires confidence that you put your best foot forward. 

I had a nightmare that I was working outside in a really nice neighborhood and went to a local burger joint. I was being served by Mel Gibson and he was acting like a total snoot to me be because of how I was dressed. I couldn't get decent service and I woke up sniffling. It was a wtf moment that I can giggle about now, especially after telling Escapist about it. However, at the moment, it really shook me up.


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## Shosh (May 23, 2011)

tinkerbell said:


> Really? Why? I feel great about myself, even if I go out without make up, in a crazy outfit, and with my hair in a pony tail.
> 
> Why aren't men held to these same standards? Who really cares what people wear when they go out? I know I don't.
> 
> ...



I think men should care about how they present themselves also.

I don't think it takes much effort to put yourself together properly.
I am not saying people have to wear expensive designer clothes, I myself pick up cute inexpensive clothes from thrift stores, I will be honest and say that I dislike seeing women wearing sweatpants and sloppy t shirts and sneakers etc.
Women can look so pretty with minimal effort, so why would you not want to?



ashmamma84 said:


> Some women just aren't into fashion and never have been. Its not because they are depressed or don't think "they're worth it". They just might be into other things and my opinion is that we (women) shouldn't really be looking down on anyone because they're not into what we're into. Like you, I make an effort to carry myself well and dress the part but I realize it would be silly of me to hold all women to my personal standard; I wouldn't want another woman doing that to me.
> 
> As long as people are taking care to bathe and are neat, it really should be a non issue.



I am not looking down on anybody Ash, I just think we can all make an effort. It is not that hard.


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## Shosh (May 23, 2011)

fluffyandcute said:


> Yes I agree! People think just because your fat you can't be pretty or attractive in todays society. I know this isn't true!



I agree! There are such cute clothes for plus size women now, that we can look pretty and that is important, for me anyway.

I am also learning how to sew so that I can make my own clothes.


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## Shosh (May 23, 2011)

hrd said:


> For me appearance just isn't a priority; my time, energy and money are better spent elsewhere. I'm sure it surprises some people when I show up, say to an opera premier, sporting whatever I happen to be wearing that day, but I'm not willing to compromise who I am just to suit other people's expectations. If my best friend and one of my sisters can be fashion mavens, then I'm sure it balances things out for me to just throw on the first thing I pull from closet. =)



I understand that, but for myself it is.

I also think that it is fitting that we may want to think about dressing to suit another's expectations, namely especially a man's etc.
I want to look pretty and well put together for my man because I know that is what he likes, and it is what I expect from myself.
I do not think he having expectations or standards for me is asking too much.


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## Blackjack (May 23, 2011)

Shosh said:


> I understand that, but *for myself *it is.



So why should other people meet the clothing demands that you place upon yourself?


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## Latte (May 23, 2011)

I think people in this thread are forgetting their privilege. Clothes cost money, _especially_ plus sized clothes. Makeup, shoes, grooming products and accessories cost money. A bottle of shampoo that doesn't turn my hair to straw costs enough money to feed a family a home cooked meal. I am fortunate enough not to have to make that choice. Not everyone is so lucky. 

I will acknowledge that the world may perceive me as "better" when I conform to its standards but I also realize that not everyone has the means (financial or otherwise) to do so. 

I hope that a group of people who are often marginalized by society would remember how it feels to be judged without context and would think before doing the same thing to others.


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## Shosh (May 23, 2011)

Latte said:


> I think people in this thread are forgetting their privilege. Clothes cost money, _especially_ plus sized clothes. Makeup, shoes, grooming products and accessories cost money. A bottle of shampoo that doesn't turn my hair to straw costs enough money to feed a family a home cooked meal. I am fortunate enough not to have to make that choice. Not everyone is so lucky.
> 
> I will acknowledge that the world may perceive me as "better" when I conform to its standards but I also realize that not everyone has the means (financial or otherwise) to do so.
> 
> I hope that a group of people who are often marginalized by society would remember how it feels to be judged without context and would think before doing the same thing to others.



I wish I was privileged.

I am on a fixed income because I am not able to work. I Have MS.

I am a real bargain hunter. I volunteer in a thrift store and I often find cute things to wear. I am a BBW, I am a size 26, almost a size 30 now.

I am also learning how to sew, so that I can make my own clothes cheaper.
My friend and I made a skirt last week from a dress that we bought from a thrift store and took apart for it to be wide enough to fit me.

The dress was originally a gown, and we made it into a pretty skirt.

We got a huge bag of material and clothes that could be altered for $6.00.

We are going to make a whole lot of different things from that scrap bag from the thrift store.

I dont think you have to wear expensive designer clothes as I said, you can adapt what you buy to fit your means.


We often have new shoes in the thrift store that are donated by companies, or shoes that have been worn only a few times and then donated.

Costume jewellery is quite cheap, and once again thrift stores or dollar stores have some cute stuff.

As for shampoo,well there are natural remedies that you can use, such as an egg treatment that can be used as a softener.

I guess I just believe it is important to make an effort with your appearance, in any way that you are able to.


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## hrd (May 23, 2011)

Shosh said:


> I understand that, but for myself it is.
> 
> I also think that it is fitting that we may want to think about dressing to suit another's expectations, namely especially a man's etc.
> I want to look pretty and well put together for my man because I know that is what he likes, and it is what I expect from myself.
> I do not think he having expectations or standards for me is asking too much.



As I said, people dear to me are very into fashion -- I even have an aunt that used to be a clothing model -- and they place value in being particular about how they look, and I'm glad they're doing something they enjoy and find worthwhile. If you feel the same, that's perfectly fine for you, but it's still not for me, and I'm content with who I am. I prefer to don a pair of blue jeans and use my time, energy, and resources on things I value more highly than attempting to conform to external, and definitely subjective, standards and expectations. And I'm certain if it ever comes up, I'll find myself partnered with a man who's equally unconcerned. =)


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## tinkerbell (May 23, 2011)

Shosh said:


> I understand that, but for myself it is.
> 
> I also think that it is fitting that we may want to think about dressing to suit another's expectations, *namely especially a man's etc.*
> I want to look pretty and well put together for my man because I know that is what he likes, and it is what I expect from myself.
> I do not think he having expectations or standards for me is asking too much.



:doh: Oh my. The feminist in me is screaming! 

Thankfully my husband tells me every morning that I look beautiful in the morning. Without makeup and with messy hair. He doesn't expect me to look like I'm competing in a pageant 24/7. And honestly prefers me without make up. Not that I even wear a lot, when I do wear it. I don't need it, to be honest. 

And I should say that I do typically leave the house with make up on, and nice clothing. I don't wear costume jewelry though - I think its tacky. But I don't need the makeup or nice clothes to feel good about myself, I already do. And I often wonder if those who HAVE to have the make up on, and the hair done, and the fancy clothes, are trying to compensate, because they don't feel good about themselves.


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## Shosh (May 23, 2011)

tinkerbell said:


> :doh: Oh my. The feminist in me is screaming!
> 
> Thankfully my husband tells me every morning that I look beautiful in the morning. Without makeup and with messy hair. He doesn't expect me to look like I'm competing in a pageant 24/7. And honestly prefers me without make up. Not that I even wear a lot, when I do wear it. I don't need it, to be honest.
> 
> And I should say that I do typically leave the house with make up on, and nice clothing. I don't wear costume jewelry though - I think its tacky. But I don't need the makeup or nice clothes to feel good about myself, I already do. And I often wonder if those who HAVE to have the make up on, and the hair done, and the fancy clothes, are trying to compensate, because they don't feel good about themselves.



That is so nice that your husband tells you that.



I feel very good about myself, so no psycological analysis needed on that point.
One could make the point that if people do not care about their appearance they are unhappy with themselves and their life, and have just given up on themselves.
That may be incorrect, so no analysis might be needed on that point either.
It goes both ways.

Some people just feel beautiful wearing nice clothes and make up.
As I have said, you can wear cute clothes and they do not have to be expensive.

As for the feminist angle, meh, the movement has done some good, but it is the male hating element of it that I cannot abide.
Women and men are different, we do not have to compete with each other.

What is wrong with wanting to look good and wear the kinds of things your partner would like to see you wear?

Sometimes I think something I wear might be nice, and he might not think so. Even if I wish he liked it, I cannot change how he feels, and so that item has to go.

It does not take too many resources or too much effort for me to present myself well, so I am going to keep on doing it.


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## Shosh (May 23, 2011)

hrd said:


> As I said, people dear to me are very into fashion -- I even have an aunt that used to be a clothing model -- and they place value in being particular about how they look, and I'm glad they're doing something they enjoy and find worthwhile. If you feel the same, that's perfectly fine for you, but it's still not for me, and I'm content with who I am. I prefer to don a pair of blue jeans and use my time, energy, and resources on things I value more highly than attempting to conform to external, and definitely subjective, standards and expectations. And I'm certain if it ever comes up, I'll find myself partnered with a man who's equally unconcerned. =)



I understand. Happiness is important in life.


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## LillyBBBW (May 23, 2011)

I really really really don't like negative people. I don't like being around people who do nothing but talk about everybody else, what they're wearing, what they're doing with their life, who they're sleeping with, etc. Years ago it was all important to me to "elevate" myself to hang with people who seemed the most together based on appearances, the polished trendy socialites. As I've gotten older I've learned to value something more from people than just a pair of Coach sneakers and a smart bag. It's how they treat you, how they treat others and how they relate to the world. Many of these sophistocates who look so good on the outside are full of every insecurity imagineable and will stab you in the back quicker than Jack Beans. While they are so quick to judge others before you who knows what they are saying about you behind your back? 

My vision has changed and I tend to view beauty and class in other things now. I'd rather be with a person who relishes life in a stained mumu than a person in a designer suit that sees nothing but ugliness around them, and that's not to say that all people who dress up are like that. As this has happened I've become more relaxed when dressing myself. Don't get me wrong, I still got mad skills when it comes to doing my makeup and dressing to the nines and yes, I'm bragging because I can. Makeup is no longer a priority though and I'm not as quick to try to impress the kinds of people who would actually be immpressed by that kind of thing. Someone who can't or won't esteem someone based on their character rather than outwardly appearances is not someone I want to be associated with anyway. My dark circles, sweatpants and rasta hat have magical powers to ward off evil. 

Oh and I'm wicked fat too. :bow:


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## Shosh (May 23, 2011)

chicken legs said:


> So true. I love watching make over shows because the person gets a different perspective and then they see how people treat them in return. Having someone pamper you or just taking a time out to regroup really helps the soul. It doesn't require tons of make up, hours in the gym or salon, or whatever. It just requires confidence that you put your best foot forward.
> 
> I had a nightmare that I was working outside in a really nice neighborhood and went to a local burger joint. I was being served by Mel Gibson and he was acting like a total snoot to me be because of how I was dressed. I couldn't get decent service and I woke up sniffling. It was a wtf moment that I can giggle about now, especially after telling Escapist about it. However, at the moment, it really shook me up.



Have you seen Mel Gibson's infamous mug shot? I don't think he has any room to judge another 

That and he is an anti semitic prick


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## Shosh (May 23, 2011)

LillyBBBW said:


> I really really really don't like negative people. I don't like being around people who do nothing but talk about everybody else, what they're wearing, what they're doing with their life, who they're sleeping with, etc. Years ago it was all important to me to "elevate" myself to hang with people who seemed the most together based on appearances, the polished trendy socialites. As I've gotten older I've learned to value something more from people than just a pair of Coach sneakers and a smart bag. It's how they treat you, how they treat others and how they relate to the world. Many of these sophistocates who look so good on the outside are full of every insecurity imagineable and will stab you in the back quicker than Jack Beans. While they are so quick to judge others before you who knows what they are saying about you behind your back?
> 
> My vision has changed and I tend to view beauty and class in other things now. I'd rather be with a person who relishes life in a stained mumu than a person in a designer suit that sees nothing but ugliness around them, and that's not to say that all people who dress up are like that. As this has happened I've become more relaxed when dressing myself. Don't get me wrong, I still got mad skills when it comes to doing my makeup and dressing to the nines and yes, I'm bragging because I can. Makeup is no longer a priority though and I'm not as quick to try to impress the kinds of people who would actually be immpressed by that kind of thing. Someone who can't or won't esteem someone based on their character rather than outwardly appearances is not someone I want to be associated with anyway. My dark circles, sweatpants and rasta hat have magical powers to ward off evil.
> 
> Oh and I'm wicked fat too. :bow:



You have given me some things to think about Lilly. Thank you. 

I personally do not talk about people and their lives etc etc.

Most of my friends are regular everyday kind of people, not wealthy, work a day kind of people.

I guess I just think as BBW's and SSBBW's we have to do more in the way we present ourselves, so that we do not cop even further abuse from people.
I just do not want to give somebody any reason to put me down, or let me have it regarding my appearance.

But you know, you made some good points, and I will think about them.


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## LillyBBBW (May 23, 2011)

Shosh said:


> You have given me some things to think about Lilly. Thank you.
> 
> I personally do not talk about people and their lives etc etc.
> 
> ...



I fully understand that an appreciate it. I thought that way myself but then it occured to me that it was a dead end action. It is bad enough that people place restrictions on our humanity based on our weight but by playing along we allow them to keep doing it. It has perpetuated a mindset, "If I dress well and look beautiful people will see that they are wrong in treating me poorly because I'm fat/black/jewish/asian/female/gay/straight." I came to realize that when people do this it is not a reflection on me but on them. THEY are wrong in mistreating people and I am wrong in giving them permission to do so by cowering before their barking calls. There in nothing wrong with wanting to look nice but I had to break the spell of thinking that it means more than human kindness and what's on the inside of a person. I know I'm not explaining it well but it comes close to how I feel on the issue.


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## Shosh (May 23, 2011)

LillyBBBW said:


> I fully understand that an appreciate it. I thought that way myself but then it occured to me that it was a dead end action. It is bad enough that people place restrictions on our humanity based on our weight but by playing along we allow them to keep doing it. It has perpetuated a mindset, "If I dress well and look beautiful people will see that they are wrong in treating me poorly because I'm fat/black/jewish/asian/female/gay/straight." I came to realize that when people do this it is not a reflection on me but on them. THEY are wrong in mistreating people and I am wrong in giving them permission to do so by cowering before their barking calls. There in nothing wrong with wanting to look nice but I had to break the spell of thinking that it means more than human kindness and what's on the inside of a person. I know I'm not explaining it well but it comes close to how I feel on the issue.



"I'd rather be with a person who relishes life in a stained mumu than a person in a designer suit that sees nothing but ugliness around them"

I think it was that point that made me stop and think for a moment.

That is true.


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## fluffyandcute (May 23, 2011)

Shosh said:


> I wish I was privileged.
> 
> I am on a fixed income because I am not able to work. I Have MS.
> 
> ...



FINALLY!!! I think someone see's my point! I too am on a fixed income...I too have MS!!! I don't think it takes alot of effort to try to make yourself look nice. Again you don't have to buy expensive things. There are many alternitives and bargins out there, sometimes you just have to hunt! 
To each their own! I just try to make myself look presentable in todays society! If you do not want too, then don't! Shosh I am glad you see my way of thinking


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## fluffyandcute (May 23, 2011)

fatgirlflyin said:


> First off, my name isn't honey. Second your truth isn't everyone's truth and just because you think someone can do themselves up a little more really means jack shit in the real world.
> 
> Live your life, dress up for you if that's what makes you happy but that's not everyone's cup of tea. If some woman wants to walk around in sweats with her hair up in a pony tail she's not less than...




Listen I am not trying to judge I was just stating my opinion here just like anyone else! I don't know why you feel like you have to attack me! Maybe you don't like me for some reason LOL! Whatever it is, I was just stating how I felt about this subject!
Oh and I will live my life the way I want and you damn well better believe that I will dress they way that makes me happy. Not to anyone elses expectations! Thats what we all should do!! End of discussion! Have a good day.


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## Saoirse (May 23, 2011)

It doesnt matter how cheap you can find nice clothes and makeup. Some of us just. dont. care. Looking cute and fancy just isnt that high on our long list of priorities.

My bestie is unfortunately one of the most judgemental people I've ever met (and I think a lot of it stems from his own lack of confidence). He looks at people and has comments and rude remarks. Well, believe it or not, some of those same people that he passes up simply because he doesnt like how they look, turn out to be amazing people. I know, because Im friends with them.


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## fatgirlflyin (May 23, 2011)

fluffyandcute said:


> Listen I am not trying to judge I was just stating my opinion here just like anyone else! I don't know why you feel like you have to attack me! Maybe you don't like me for some reason LOL! Whatever it is, I was just stating how I felt about this subject!
> Oh and I will live my life the way I want and you damn well better believe that I will dress they way that makes me happy. Not to anyone elses expectations! Thats what we all should do!! End of discussion! Have a good day.




Yay, another person who feels that anyone disagreeing with their opinion is attacking them. Are you like that in the real world too?

Good for you for dressing the way that makes you happy, now how about we afford other people the same luxury?


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## fluffyandcute (May 23, 2011)

I think you do need a vacation!!:doh:


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## chicken legs (May 23, 2011)

I know I sound like Jeff Foxworthy but if you wipe your ass after a poo or brush your teeth (even if it is every once and a while)..you care about yourself and how others perceive you. Fact is you care because you know you will be judged by your appearance (even by your peers/family/friends/strangers), it does help you to feel better, and it sucks to be treated/judged unfairly because of it. However, on other hand, if you know what you want or who you are dealing with..it is easier to manipulate the situation to your liking by how you present yourself. Anywho, I got to do my nails now.


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## LillyBBBW (May 23, 2011)

fluffyandcute said:


> Listen I am not trying to judge I was just stating my opinion here just like anyone else! I don't know why you feel like you have to attack me! Maybe you don't like me for some reason LOL! Whatever it is, I was just stating how I felt about this subject!
> Oh and I will live my life the way I want and you damn well better believe that I will dress they way that makes me happy. Not to anyone elses expectations! Thats what we all should do!! End of discussion! Have a good day.



Yes but you _are_ judging. Judging by definition is forming an opinion and you are forming that opinion based on appearances. Because someone appears a certain way you assume things about them based upon your perceptions of yourself. By what you say it seems a great measure of your self worth is rooted in your ability to shop and look nice even while struggling with a disease. This somehow is a part of your worth as a person in comparison to others. While that is your perogative it is not a place where everyone stakes their esteem nor should they. Unlike you who judges by appearances we are judging you by what you say.


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## Saoirse (May 23, 2011)

chicken legs said:


> I know I sound like Jeff Foxworthy but if you wipe your ass after a poo or brush your teeth (even if it is every once and a while)..you care about yourself and how others perceive you. Fact is you care because you know you will be judged by your appearance (even by your peers/family/friends/strangers), it does help you to feel better, and it sucks to be treated/judged unfairly because of it. However, on other hand, if you know what you want or who you are dealing with..it is easier to manipulate the situation to your liking by how you present yourself. Anywho, I got to do my nails now.



I wipe my ass and brush my ass for sanitary reasons. Not for anyone else.


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## Dr. Feelgood (May 23, 2011)

Saoirse said:


> It doesnt matter how cheap you can find nice clothes and makeup. Some of us just. dont. care. Looking cute and fancy just isnt that high on our long list of priorities.



A point that keeps appearing in this thread-- but has not been commented on -- is that we have both standards for ourselves and standards for others and _these are not necessarily the same_. I am a dressy person -- I would no more wear a t-shirt and jeans into a restaurant than I would steal candy from a baby -- but if you want to wear cut-offs and a sweatshirt with the sleeves ripped out it's fine with me: if you're good company I'll enjoy being with you regardless. My dress standards for others are lower than what I feel comfortable with myself; I think, from her posts, that this may be true of Shoshie, too. Caring about what you wear doesn't necessarily make you a snob, any more than not caring makes you a vulgarian.


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## Blackjack (May 23, 2011)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I think, from her posts, that this may be true of Shoshie, too.



If you think so you haven't been reading her posts.


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## HottiMegan (May 23, 2011)

I'm a disappointment to fat women everywhere. I rarely wear makeup and hardly ever do anything special with my hair other than keep it clean and brush it. I am a jeans and t-shirt kind of girl. I wear dresses when the mood strikes me but I basically wear what's comfy and easy to be a mom in. 
I am coming to find out that i have to care for two special needs kids. One of which takes a lot of time and energy to keep from having extreme meltdowns. I just don't feel like looking my best. My husband tells me i'm gorgeous when i feel at my lowest and grossest looks wise. 
If people will judge me as less than due to my lack of hair and makeup or even nicer clothes, then i wouldn't want to know them anyways. There is more to a person that outward appearances. If i can get through a day without a kid smearing their food laden face on me, then it's a good day.


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## mossystate (May 23, 2011)

There is not caring because you are in a deep depression...and there is not caring because you don't even think about it and are too busy just living your life and enjoying it, and it's just not your thing. 
This picking apart where people can find clothing and 99 cent makeup...not...the...point. There are people who...don't...care...who don't care where they might find what they don't want or need in the first place.

I truly do not get the almost anger over how some woman leaves her house. This isn't about how fat women are already viewed, so please don't give more ammo. No, this an odd fear on the part of the people who judge...living out those fears on the backs of others.


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## FatAndProud (May 23, 2011)

Honestly, I don't feel like fitting into traditional gender roles. I will not wear makeup and wear dresses to make myself, nor the opposite sex, happy. I think it is utterly ridiculous to put such standards on EXTERNAL APPEARANCE. This is the downfall of society: we're visual creatures. Rather than have some personality standards, we revel over those that look the "best" based on societal folkways. 

I'm still out to prove that I can look best, be the best, and be damn awesome in just a burlap sack. Fuck your standards of beauty.


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## Latte (May 23, 2011)

Shosh said:


> I wish I was privileged.
> 
> I am on a fixed income because I am not able to work. I Have MS.
> 
> ...



But you ARE privileged. You have the time to bargain hunt and volunteer. You aren't spending that time working your 2nd or 3rd job just to feed your family. 

You have the privilege of having the education and resources so that you can alter or learn how to alter and sew your own clothes. Thread and needles cost money and it's pretty difficult to get a sewing machine and learn how to use it if you can't read well. 

Eggs? They aren't cheap enough to use as shampoo. I mean, they are for me and I generally eat about a dozen a week but when you're living at or below the poverty line you need to eat your food. Oh, and you can't have chickens within certain city limits so that's not an option either.

When I say privileged I'm talking about the things we (all of us who have computers and internet access and the free time to talk on a forum) take for granted. The fat woman in some faded men's jeans and a ratty t-shirt at the farmer's market may be wearing her best. She may be there to pick up end of the day fruits and veggies at a discount because that's all she can afford. It is impossible to know someone's situation just by looking at them and to assume that she's lazy or not trying because she's not dressed "nicely" (which, as has been mentioned previously in the thread is COMPLETELY subjective) is just as judgmental as someone assuming you're a dirty slob just because you're fat.

My point stands. People in this thread have forgotten their privilege. I'm not saying you (general you) should feel apologetic for wanting to dress well and feel good about yourself. I'm just saying that perhaps those of you who are so judgemental should widen the lens through which you see the world.


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## LillyBBBW (May 23, 2011)

There are a couple of big donors who donate lots of their wealth to the chorus that I sing in. I'm not talking a couple hundred dollars either, these people endow an unspeakable amount on a consistent basis. They come to concerts and have been invited to come to a few our our celebratory cast parties and they are the most plain, unassuming people. You would not be able to pick them out in a crowd. I've talked with them not knowing what to expect and they are simply the nicest, most wonderful, gracious people - in love with their grandchildren and each other. Their names have been played up by the management countless times in the past as being supporters but they didn't become real to me personally till I met them. They are wonderful but would probably be ignored at some shi shi boutique if they stopped in. Appearances are meaningless. Even an awful person can hit a sale at Lord & Taylor and look good. It's nice to be important but it's more important to be nice.


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## PhiloGirl (May 23, 2011)

I just wanted to say that I think this thread started with the concept of dressing to feel good. I remember somebody (on this forum or elsewhere) talking about dressing in a way that YOU (general you) are comfortable and happy with, regardless of size. There are gorgeous women out there that society would say belong in bikinis, sundresses, spike heels, with their hair blown out, etc. etc... but if they feel beautiful in yoga pants and a t-shirt - be happy for them that they feel beautiful in those things. 

There are men and women who dress "sloppy" (by society's standards)... but also feel crappy about it. I posted earlier about wearing oversized men's clothing in high school. I wore those things not because I loved them, but because I was trying to hide my body and keep anyone from noticing me. If it makes any sense, I felt societal pressure to "let myself go"... because I was constantly presented with the message that a fat woman cannot be feminine, is not attractive, and should just keep her disgusting body out of sight. I think that this is what some people on this thread may be trying to relate? Not that women who wear casual clothes out shopping are gross or lazy, but that women who are of a mindset like I was - that I wasn't worthy of dressing in a way _that made *me* feel good_ - would benefit from putting effort into what gives them confidence. Maybe I'm putting words in others' mouths... it's just that I would hope we could all be happy for one another with whatever feels right; including those for whom clothing is a complete non-issue.


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## AmazingAmy (May 23, 2011)

I'm interested to know what Shosh and fluffyandcute's interpretation of making an effort is.

Is it all about pretty clothes and make-up, or is it something as basic as having consideration for the people around you by keeping clean and not stinking out your fellow passengers on a bus? Or is that alone not good enough? Does it say something about that person if they won't go above and beyond the call of duty for the sake of eye make-up, because having smokey eyes for irrelevant strangers makes all the difference, clearly?

You can wear all the 99p jewellery and cheap cosmetics you want - people can and _will _change their first impressions of you once you open your conceited, shallow, LOLing mouth.


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## TraciJo67 (May 23, 2011)

fluffyandcute said:


> FINALLY!!! I think someone see's my point! I too am on a fixed income...I too have MS!!! I don't think it takes alot of effort to try to make yourself look nice. Again you don't have to buy expensive things. There are many alternitives and bargins out there, sometimes you just have to hunt!
> To each their own! I just try to make myself look presentable in todays society! If you do not want too, then don't! Shosh I am glad you see my way of thinking


 
OK. 

I wouldn't be caught DEAD in cheap plastic jewelry. I have very few pieces, but they are quality items. I mean it. I'd be mortified, at my age, to wear hot pink ANYTHING, far less hot pink 'n plastic. I consider that cheap and tacky beyond words.

This is JUST MY OPINION.

Can you not see how subjective it is, to judge others based on them not meeting your personal standards?

If you're clean, and your hair is combed, and you aren't wearing something that's outrageously inappropriate (like a micro-mini to work, etc) ... that's good enough for me. I have my own PERSONAL standard but I'd never presume to impose that on other people. Shosh is opening herself up to criticism of HER standard because she's making the claim that others who don't make an "effort", like she does, is somehow worthy of her scorn.

Fine.

I freakin' HATE your Dollar General baubles, Shoshie.


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## CastingPearls (May 23, 2011)

While taste is subjective, people with absolutely no taste and are the antithesis of style should be the last ones to look down their noses at anyone.

I know people of great wealth who are confident and successful and don't dress to please anyone. 

I also know people with threadbare pockets whose radiant smiles and kindness are more beautiful adornments than any garment.


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## tinkerbell (May 23, 2011)

:doh: You would really stop wearing something because your SO doesn't like it, Shosh? Really? I guess I don't have a relationship like that where my SO determines what I wear. I mean, I get wanting to wear things that they like - of course I do that at times. But I wear shirts that he thinks are horribly ugly. That to me is controlling. But thats just me.

I guess my thing is I don't judge people by appearances, or try not to. I don't know what that person is going through, or what kind of day they had. I just don't care. 



> Is it all about pretty clothes and make-up, or is it something as basic as having consideration for the people around you by keeping clean and not stinking out your fellow passengers on a bus? Or is that alone not good enough? Does it say something about that person if they won't go above and beyond the call of duty for the sake of eye make-up, because having smokey eyes for irrelevant strangers makes all the difference, clearly?



I ran out of rep, but really liked that post by Amy, and a couple others!


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## disconnectedsmile (May 23, 2011)

Blackjack said:


> So why should other people meet the clothing demands that you place upon yourself?



because Shosh, that's why.


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## Blackjack (May 23, 2011)

disconnectedsmile said:


> because Shosh, that's why.



I know, I just like to now and then point out how much of a venomous hypocrite she is.


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## Lamia (May 23, 2011)

I think everyone should dress the way I want them. I'll be issuing you all handouts this time tomorrow with your assigned attire. I hope some of you like wearing pants made out of cactus.


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## disconnectedsmile (May 23, 2011)

Blackjack said:


> I know, I just like to now and then point out how much of a venomous hypocrite she is.



oh, she does a fine enough job of that on her own.



Lamia said:


> I think everyone should dress the way I want them. I'll be issuing you all handouts this time tomorrow with your assigned attire. I hope some of you like wearing pants made out of cactus.


ASSLESS CACTUS CHAPS HELL YEAH
best birthday ever


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## Sweetie (May 23, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> While taste is subjective, people with absolutely no taste and are the antithesis of style should be the last ones to look down their noses at anyone.
> 
> I know people of great wealth who are confident and successful and don't dress to please anyone.
> 
> I also know people with threadbare pockets whose radiant smiles and kindness are more beautiful adornments than any garment.



YES, YES AND YES. :bow:


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## penguin (May 23, 2011)

Lamia said:


> I think everyone should dress the way I want them. I'll be issuing you all handouts this time tomorrow with your assigned attire. I hope some of you like wearing pants made out of cactus.



I demand more nudity.


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## ashmamma84 (May 23, 2011)

A friend of mine is a surgeon. Said friend makes over 400k a year, but chooses NOT to spend it on frivolous things like clothes or shoes, though certainly has enough money to do whatever she chooses. Instead, she chooses to spend her time saving lives in the OR and in the lab (working on a cure for some horrible degenerative diseases. You can't look at her and tell what kind of money she has, the brilliance that is her mind, or how she has a big warm heart. But anyone who would say she's given up on life or is depressed is very far off. 

In the scheme of things, clothes cannot tell you who a person is. And with the amount of available credit people have a lot of times people who are best dressed are also best stressed with maxed out CCs to cover their clothing bills. I don't necessarily think "money" when I see a put together woman at all, even though I am one. I post on a high fashion forum - and from the outside, those women are "living it up" with giant walk in closets full of designer clothes and handbags, 5 carat diamond rings just because, etc. But a lot of them are drowning in debt. They have no peace of mind and sadly, they don't think very highly of themselves. They feel ugly - in all those pretty clothes. Doesn't really seem worth it much if they can't even enjoy it. Unless you know a person intimately, its just a guessing game of what you think you know and sometimes you're very wrong.


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## EMH1701 (May 23, 2011)

ashmamma84 said:


> Some women just aren't into fashion and never have been. Its not because they are depressed or don't think "they're worth it". They just might be into other things and my opinion is that we (women) shouldn't really be looking down on anyone because they're not into what we're into. Like you, I make an effort to carry myself well and dress the part but I realize it would be silly of me to hold all women to my personal standard; I wouldn't want another woman doing that to me.
> 
> As long as people are taking care to bathe and are neat, it really should be a non issue.



We can't all afford to be into fashion. I myself make less than $20 an hour and most of my money goes to bills these days. I'm single and live alone, so I have no help with rent or utilities.

Do I make an effort to match my clothes, wash my clothes, brush my hair, and not look crappy when I go to work? Yes. However, I have to shop at places like Kohls, JC Penney, and Sears (sometimes Macys when they have sales) due to my pay check. This means pants and knit tops or polo shirts in the warm seasons, and sweaters in the winter. My workplace is business casual.

I do enjoy more wearing jeans and T-shirts because of the comfort factor. But I can't always wear them.


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## ashmamma84 (May 23, 2011)

EMH1701 said:


> We can't all afford to be into fashion. I myself make less than $20 an hour and most of my money goes to bills these days. I'm single and live alone, so I have no help with rent or utilities.
> 
> Do I make an effort to match my clothes, wash my clothes, brush my hair, and not look crappy when I go to work? Yes. However, I have to shop at places like Kohls, JC Penney, and Sears (sometimes Macys when they have sales) due to my pay check. This means pants and knit tops or polo shirts in the warm seasons, and sweaters in the winter. My workplace is business casual.
> 
> I do enjoy more wearing jeans and T-shirts because of the comfort factor. But I can't always wear them.



I'm not quite sure why you quoted me. Please re-read my post. I never said anyone needed to, whether they could afford to or not, be fashionable. I'm not going to preach to someone about what they should or should not wear because I don't want it done to me. And I realize everyone doesn't live my life, my personal taste, etc. I live a very comfortable lifestyle and am privileged enough to shop where I want on a pretty regular basis and other "luxuries", all other responsibilities seen to, etc. But that's my reality - I don't look down or judge someone if its not theirs. 

Further, I don't care about what you make, or your work place dress codes. If its good enough for you, that's really what matters and pretty much the point of my post.


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## Surlysomething (May 23, 2011)

"look their best"

Maybe their best is a tee-shirt and jeans. Who's to say.

I felt pretty damn good in my jeans, tee and flip flops today. No makeup, hair in a pony. I felt clean and fresh and relaxed. Viva, long weekends!

I also think I get more admiring looks from the opposite sex when I look fresh-faced. And honestly, I love hearing "you smell amazing" more than hearing "you look amazing". Maybe i'm weird. Maybe... :batting:


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## fatgirlflyin (May 23, 2011)

Lamia said:


> I think everyone should dress the way I want them. I'll be issuing you all handouts this time tomorrow with your assigned attire. I hope some of you like wearing pants made out of cactus.



As long as they aren't stretch pants, because well then some around here would be complaining about women in stretch pants...


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## FatAndProud (May 23, 2011)

This is really how much I care about material things.

View attachment 93733

This is my purse/wallet, if you will. It is made of duct tape (if you can't duct it, fuck it, amirite?!). Everyone makes fun of me for it, but why pay $8 for something that HOLDS MY MONEY/CREDIT CARD/misc. It seems silly. I feel the same about spandex-y, sequin'd, glittery clothes. Why waste my finite money on something so trivial? lol I guess my priorities are elsewhere. However, it takes more to work with what ya momma gave you, than to dress it up in peacock'd feathers and strut around like you're hot shit.

Ok, I'm done ranting. I will never wear a dress. I will only wear makeup if my fat, sloppy ass feels like it. I am also a greater person for it.


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## olwen (May 23, 2011)

FatAndProud said:


> This is really how much I care about material things.
> 
> View attachment 93733
> 
> ...



That wallet looks cool actually. For a really long time my "wallet" was a rubber band. Wish I had thought to make one out of duct tape. Heck, whenever I wear a skirt or dress my wallet is my bra! I know I can't be the only one who does that. LOL


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## FatAndProud (May 23, 2011)

olwen said:


> That wallet looks cool actually. For a really long time my "wallet" was a rubber band. Wish I had thought to make one out of duct tape. Heck, whenever I wear a skirt or dress my wallet is my bra! I know I can't be the only one who does that. LOL



Hell yeah. That's real right there. lol


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## Surlysomething (May 23, 2011)

I'm not ashamed to love my Coach wallet.

And i'm head over heels for my Marc Jacobs change purse.

NOT ASHAMED.


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## FatAndProud (May 23, 2011)

Surlysomething said:


> I'm not ashamed to love my Coach wallet.
> 
> And i'm head over heels for my Marc Jacobs change purse.
> 
> NOT ASHAMED.



Hey, you can love those things...but the question is, do you think others are "sloppy" because they don't share the same taste in accessories as you do?


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## Surlysomething (May 23, 2011)

FatAndProud said:


> Hey, you can love those things...but the question is, do you think others are "sloppy" because they don't share the same taste in accessories as you do?



Hell no. To each his own. (they were gifts to me actually - my favorite purse is a $5 one  )


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## louisaml (May 23, 2011)

I like to look and dress nice but my job for 6 years was house cleaning. I never saw a point in getting all nice when I am cleaning up after other people. I never got my nails done because they would always be trashed after a day. I am allergic to foundation, powder, blush, and concealer, no matter what brand. I only wear vanilla lip-gloss, eyeshadow, mascara, and when its cold Carmex. I am big on smelling good, and will not leave the house without using my Dove fresh, and my Lucky You. Since I work from home now I really don't see the need to getting all nice until about an hour before my husband gets home. My weekly beauty routine consists of brushing my hair and putting it into a ponytail, brushing my teeth, and throwing on whatever is clean and comfy. I love to shop. I have the whole 6 by 4 walk in closet filled with clothes, as well as two dressers. My hubby only has 2 drawers and the small hall closet. I am not that big on getting ready early in the morning for anything, cause why waste time getting purty, when you can sleep 2 extra hours.


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## Lamia (May 24, 2011)

disconnectedsmile said:


> oh, she does a fine enough job of that on her own.
> 
> 
> ASSLESS CACTUS CHAPS HELL YEAH
> best birthday ever



um no they have the ass in them that's the whole point to cactus pants...sheesh


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## Lamia (May 24, 2011)

fatgirlflyin said:


> As long as they aren't stretch pants, because well then some around here would be complaining about women in stretch pants...



*reaches into hat and pulsl out your attire assignment *sucks air through teeth*...."dang...you're not going to like this *hands you a card that says bright purple stretch pants*

I'm so very sorry.

*hehe this is funny i'm making a thread in the fashion forum titled "Let me clothe you"*


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## LoveBHMS (May 24, 2011)

This is probably a repeat of what Lillybbbw was saying, but it seems overall that "perceptions" have more to do with the perceiver than the one being perceived.

A positive, non-judgemental person isn't going to really care about outward physical appearance. If one does, one might even go so far as to assume that somebody wearing jeans and no makeup was too busy performing life saving surgery, writing a huge check to a charity, volunteering with the Special Olympics, or writing a lesson plan for a classroom to bother with dressing up.

A negative, mean, or judgemental person might well assume a dressed-to-the-nines BBW is superficial or compensating for being fat by overdressing. A negative person might even laugh at a BBW or BHM for even bothering to try looking good. For that matter you can even look at a skinny person and if you're negative and judgemental you can be derisive and assume they have an eating disorder or spend hours in the gym at the expense of their families.


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## LillyBBBW (May 24, 2011)

LoveBHMS said:


> This is probably a repeat of what Lillybbbw was saying, but it seems overall that "perceptions" have more to do with the perceiver than the one being perceived.
> 
> A positive, non-judgemental person isn't going to really care about outward physical appearance. If one does, one might even go so far as to assume that somebody wearing jeans and no makeup was too busy performing life saving surgery, writing a huge check to a charity, volunteering with the Special Olympics, or writing a lesson plan for a classroom to bother with dressing up.
> 
> A negative, mean, or judgemental person might well assume a dressed-to-the-nines BBW is superficial or compensating for being fat by overdressing. A negative person might even laugh at a BBW or BHM for even bothering to try looking good. For that matter you can even look at a skinny person and if you're negative and judgemental you can be derisive and assume they have an eating disorder or spend hours in the gym at the expense of their families.



This is true too I'm afraid. I've often seen someone show up someplace dressed in trendy theme-attire and been present when others made sport of them because they were trying too hard or over compensating.


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## AnnMarie (May 24, 2011)

Shosh said:


> Even if I wish he liked it, I cannot change how he feels, and so that item has to go.




Wow... that is really ... dedicated?? I don't know. 

I come from a whole other side of the coin. I had the funkiest most awesome pair of saddle shoes (Fluevogs when I could still squeeze my stupid cabbage patch feet into them) and the guy I was dating (who was a moron, admittedly) told me they were stupid. 

I broke up with him a week later. It was an example of a larger issue between us, a disconnect. But if we'd connected on every other level and he still hated my shoes? I'd have stayed with him and kept my shoes. 

I have no issue buying things within my "likes" if the person I'm seeing has a preference for them, but if something is to my liking and not theirs... too bad.


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## penguin (May 24, 2011)

Shosh said:


> What is wrong with wanting to look good and wear the kinds of things your partner would like to see you wear?



Nothing, with that.



> Sometimes I think something I wear might be nice, and he might not think so. Even if I wish he liked it, I cannot change how he feels, and so that item has to go.



But this? That's a slippery slope I have no interest in being on. If you like the outfit and how it feels to wear it, why does it have to go? Is it inappropriate for the occasion? Such as wearing something skimpy and revealing to a family or business event, when it might be more suited to a nightclub or the beach. If it's appropriate and he just simply doesn't like it and you feel like you should get rid of it? That sends up _huge _red flags to me.


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## mel (May 25, 2011)

I can say that when I dont do my hair or wear make up it is simply for the fact I would rather lay in bed longer lol..


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## disconnectedsmile (May 25, 2011)

Lamia said:


> um no they have the ass in them that's the whole point to cactus pants...sheesh



ok i will wear what you tell me to where because i am an adult!


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## Shosh (May 25, 2011)

Latte said:


> But you ARE privileged. You have the time to bargain hunt and volunteer. You aren't spending that time working your 2nd or 3rd job just to feed your family.
> 
> You have the privilege of having the education and resources so that you can alter or learn how to alter and sew your own clothes. Thread and needles cost money and it's pretty difficult to get a sewing machine and learn how to use it if you can't read well.
> 
> ...



My point also stands. I am not privileged. I only have time to do those things because having a disability has stolen my ability to be able to work.
I resent you thinking that my life is so easy, because it most certainly is not.
Financially, physically, emotionally, it has been hard.

I have been through a hell of a lot of hardship that many never have to face in their life, so please do not belittle that.


----------



## TraciJo67 (May 25, 2011)

penguin said:


> Nothing, with that.
> 
> 
> 
> But this? That's a slippery slope I have no interest in being on. If you like the outfit and how it feels to wear it, why does it have to go? Is it inappropriate for the occasion? Such as wearing something skimpy and revealing to a family or business event, when it might be more suited to a nightclub or the beach. If it's appropriate and he just simply doesn't like it and you feel like you should get rid of it? That sends up _huge _red flags to me.


 
penguin, I agree fully with you. Just playing Devil's Advocate a bit.

I have a sister who has been married for 12 years. In all of that time, her husband has never seen her without hair and make-up being on. She'll get up early, even on weekends, and get herself dressed and made up. I can't even imagine the effort that takes. My husband has probably seen TOO much. Wait. Definitely has  I've asked her why she makes such an effort. Her response is that she wants to please her husband and appear beautiful to him. She doesn't want him to see her at anything less than her best. My concern has always been that he won't view her as an equal, because I fear that she has some very unrealistic expectations for herself and for the relationship. But time has proven me wrong on that count. Ultimately, she just has a very different value system than my own. 

What I believe is that if I brought that set of values into my own marriage, my husband would have lost respect for me long ago. He requires an equal. I'm not even suggesting that my sister (or Shosh, for that matter) are behaving in ways that reflect they are "less than", but there is an element of suppressing self in order to please someone else. We all do that to an extent, but to me, it seems rather extreme to choose only clothing that would please my man or to never, ever let him see me at anything but my dressed-up best. That smacks of another era altogether, one that my mother and grandmother felt most comfortable, in which there were very clearly defined gender boundaries and expectations for men and women. I've never wanted that for myself. The man I married wouldn't want that for himself, either. 

I'm glad that my sister is married to someone who appreciates her for who she is. He grew up with the same values, and he's comfortable with being the Man Of The House, the Bread-Winner who takes care of his wife and family. I hope the same is true for Shosh. It's a dangerous thing, to subvert self for the pleasure of another.


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## penguin (May 25, 2011)

TraciJo67 said:


> I'm glad that my sister is married to someone who appreciates her for who she is. He grew up with the same values, and he's comfortable with being the Man Of The House, the Bread-Winner who takes care of his wife and family. I hope the same is true for Shosh. It's a dangerous thing, to subvert self for the pleasure of another.



If it's a behaviour you're happy to engage in, without fear of rejection or of making your partner mad if you don't, where they support you no matter what...then I'll think it's a bit too much and not something I'd do, but hey, it's your relationship. 

But if it's a behaviour born out of not wanting to upset them or thinking they won't want you if you don't do XYZ? It's not a healthy relationship marker.


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## disconnectedsmile (May 25, 2011)

Shosh said:


> My point also stands. I am not privileged. I only have time to do those things because having a disability has stolen my ability to be able to work.
> I resent you thinking that my life is so easy, because it most certainly is not.
> Financially, physically, emotionally, it has been hard.
> 
> I have been through a hell of a lot of hardship that many never have to face in their life, so please do not belittle that.



oh please please PUH-LEESE don't go playing that "you're a terrible person if you don't pity me" song... again.


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## TraciJo67 (May 25, 2011)

penguin said:


> If it's a behaviour you're happy to engage in, without fear of rejection or of making your partner mad if you don't, where they support you no matter what...then I'll think it's a bit too much and not something I'd do, but hey, it's your relationship.
> 
> But *if it's a behaviour born out of not wanting to upset them or thinking they won't want you if you don't do XYZ? It's not a healthy relationship marker*.


 
I knew that this is what you were getting at and agree with you.


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## Shosh (May 25, 2011)

Some of the thoughts written in this thread have struck a chord with me, especially what Lilly said, in the calm and thoughtful way she often presents her posts.

I still however believe that how a woman presents herself is important especially within a relationship. If you do not keep making an effort, your partner will be more likely to look to another women who does present themselves in a way that he is attracted to, be that dress sense, makeup, weight gain, whatever.
It is not just all one way either. Men give women love, emotional support, guidance, practical assistance, and a lot more. Those are things that women often crave and need, so it is mutually fulfilling.

Maybe I should say that how I present myself is important to me, and to try to understand and concede others may have different views.


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## AmazingAmy (May 25, 2011)

Shosh said:


> Some of the thoughts written in this thread have struck a chord with me, especially what Lilly said, in the calm and thoughtful way she often presents her posts.
> 
> I still however believe that how a woman presents herself is important especially within a relationship. If you do not keep making an effort, your partner will be more likely to look to another women who does present themselves in a way that he is attracted to, be that dress sense, makeup, weight gain, whatever.
> It is not just all one way either. Men give women love, emotional support, guidance, practical assistance, and a lot more. Those are things that women often crave and need, so it is mutually fulfilling.
> ...



Not all men are like that though, Shosh. Some don't require their partner to make an effort with eyeliner and high heeled shoes to stop them from wandering - as if that's any sort of reason to anyway. Your man might do such a thing, but he's an ass for presenting that possibility.

And saying stuff like that just reminds me of all the rape crap in the other thread: its the way the woman dresses that gets her raped/left, etc. It's such gross reasoning.

Why are so many wrongs in the world caused by the way we choose or don't choose to dress, eh?


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## fatgirlflyin (May 25, 2011)

Shosh said:


> Some of the thoughts written in this thread have struck a chord with me, especially what Lilly said, in the calm and thoughtful way she often presents her posts.
> 
> I still however believe that how a woman presents herself is important especially within a relationship. If you do not keep making an effort, your partner will be more likely to look to another women who does present themselves in a way that he is attracted to, be that dress sense, makeup, weight gain, whatever.
> It is not just all one way either. Men give women love, emotional support, guidance, practical assistance, and a lot more. Those are things that women often crave and need, so it is mutually fulfilling.
> ...



A woman choosing or not choosing to dress one way or another isn't the reason a man cheats. They cheat because they don't respect their partner or the promises they made to their partner enough to be honest with how they are feeling and instead look for instant gratification in the arms of someone else. It is about the choices they make and how they decide to handle conflict, not the lack of a dress and pearls...


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## AmazingAmy (May 25, 2011)

fatgirlflyin said:


> A woman choosing or not choosing to dress one way or another isn't the reason a man cheats. They cheat because they don't respect their partner or the promises they made to their partner enough to be honest with how they are feeling and instead look for instant gratification in the arms of someone else. It is about the choices they make and how they decide to handle conflict, not the lack of a dress and pearls...



Someone rep this woman.


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## OneWickedAngel (May 25, 2011)

fatgirlflyin said:


> A woman choosing or not choosing to dress one way or another isn't the reason a man cheats. They cheat because they don't respect their partner or the promises they made to their partner enough to be honest with how they are feeling and instead look for instant gratification in the arms of someone else. It is about the choices they make and how they decide to handle conflict, not the lack of a dress and pearls...



*QFT*



AmazingAmy said:


> Someone rep this woman.



*Done!*


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## Shosh (May 25, 2011)

AmazingAmy said:


> Not all men are like that though, Shosh. Some don't require their partner to make an effort with eyeliner and high heeled shoes to stop them from wandering - as if that's any sort of reason to anyway. Your man might do such a thing, but he's an ass for presenting that possibility.
> 
> And saying stuff like that just reminds me of all the rape crap in the other thread: its the way the woman dresses that gets her raped/left, etc. It's such gross reasoning.
> 
> Why are so many wrongs in the world caused by the way we choose or don't choose to dress, eh?



I guess I am referring to men in general. I am not making a personal reference to my man.
He loves me very much, and I am secure in that knowledge.
Yes he is an FA, and he would love to see me gain, but I know he loves me as is and right now.
At the same time I know that he loves fat women, and I know that he likes women to be feminine and look pretty etc, so I will continue to make an effort to fulfill his wishes, as he fulfills mine.
I guess the way I feel is more about wanting to make all this special effort to please him, and because it makes me feel good about myself.


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## squish (May 25, 2011)

AmazingAmy said:


> Not all men are like that though, Shosh. Some don't require their partner to make an effort with eyeliner and high heeled shoes to stop them from wandering - as if that's any sort of reason to anyway. Your man might do such a thing, but he's an ass for presenting that possibility.
> 
> And saying stuff like that just reminds me of all the rape crap in the other thread: its the way the woman dresses that gets her raped/left, etc. It's such gross reasoning.
> 
> Why are so many wrongs in the world caused by the way we choose or don't choose to dress, eh?



Very well said. You're so right, especially considering that conventionally beautiful Stepford wives sadly get cheated on all the time, and supposedly "ugly" women sadly raped all the time. 

There seems to be a blame-the-victim culture going on, and I think it's because people want to think they can stop bad things from happening to them. "It will never happen to me because I keep up my appearance." "I'll never be raped because I don't dress like a slut." It gives someone a feeling of control and superiority. It's the same as how so many people refuse to accept that some people are naturally skinny and some people are naturally fat. Because for whatever reason skinny people are privileged in our society, they* want to hold on to the idea that they deserve their privilege, and so they have to come up with reasons why fat people are bad, deviant, brought it on themselves, etc. 

* Not saying ALL thin people have this attitude, just some.


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## LillyBBBW (May 25, 2011)

Shosh said:


> Some of the thoughts written in this thread have struck a chord with me, especially what Lilly said, in the calm and thoughtful way she often presents her posts.
> 
> I still however believe that how a woman presents herself is important especially within a relationship. If you do not keep making an effort, your partner will be more likely to look to another women who does present themselves in a way that he is attracted to, be that dress sense, makeup, weight gain, whatever.
> It is not just all one way either. Men give women love, emotional support, guidance, practical assistance, and a lot more. Those are things that women often crave and need, so it is mutually fulfilling.
> ...



I think that's fair and reasonable. When I consider relationships, I simply can't imagine losing interest in someone I care about because someone in a better suit walks by. Even with my friends. What they look like isn't why I'm friends with them. I would never ditch a friend because someone more fashionable came along and beleive me... I SO KNOW women who are like that. These social climbers will dump you for the next hot number in mid sentence and never look back. But really? Is all the effort and worry worth keeping them interested? It's one thing if it's what you want and in turn you wind up appealing to people like this through no fault of your own. But really, I'm not certain it would be healthy for me to live in the constant fear of losing people who claim to care about me. That's not a healthy mindset at all. If my s.o. leaves me for my friend because she is cuter, I *might* be distraught enough in the initial stages to be convinced I should never have cut my hair in that short style or something. The feeling would be short lived though and rightfully so. He's a Bozo. I think those are the wrong reasons for people to cling to rituals appearance wise that their hearts are not fully vested in.


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## NoWayOut (May 25, 2011)

AmazingAmy said:


> Someone rep this woman.



Done as well. I just can't understand men who cheat. It's clear their word means nothing to them.


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## mossystate (May 25, 2011)

fatgirlflyin said:


> A woman choosing or not choosing to dress one way or another isn't the reason a man cheats. They cheat because they don't respect their partner or the promises they made to their partner enough to be honest with how they are feeling and instead look for instant gratification in the arms of someone else. It is about the choices they make and how they decide to handle conflict, not the lack of a dress and pearls...



A coat of paint won't ultimately hide any rot in the wood.

In other words...exactly!


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## CastingPearls (May 25, 2011)

Physical beauty, and/or the presentation of beauty and all its accoutrements, will not make someone who truly loves you, love you more. Or less. And I'm living proof of that. It's one thing to like to please someone. It's another to be fearful of loss and disinterest and that's what I'm hearing here.


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## disconnectedsmile (May 25, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> Physical beauty, and/or the presentation of beauty and all its accoutrements, will not make someone who truly loves you, love you more. Or less. And I'm living proof of that. It's one thing to like to please someone. It's another to be fearful of loss and disinterest and that's what I'm hearing here.



no you have no right to judge because you don't know what it's like life is hard because of reasons.


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## Miss Vickie (May 25, 2011)

I'm glad this thread has gotten resurrected, because it's brought up some interesting thoughts. Do fat women owe it to other fat women to dress well in order to counter stereotypes of fat women as slovenly and stinky? I don't think so. If you don't dress up because you're busy or don't feel like it, then that's your choice. I don't judge those who do, and I don't judge those who don't. I think each woman has to approach her life -- including how she dresses -- in what works for her. If you feel better taking care of your appearance, then do that. If not... well... don't. Don't we get enough judgment from others? Do we really need to do that to each other?

As far as whether a man would roam or not because his sweetie didn't take care of her appearance, I think that's really insulting to men. In my 40 plus years on the planet, I've known a few men who have strayed and none of them mentioned that it was the dearth of hot pink lip gloss or sexy undies that caused them to be a dirty dog. It was a (whether perceived or genuine) sense that they weren't important to their partner, that they felt belittled, had no genuine intimacy or warmth in the relationship. Now there are lots of reasons why this can happen, and it takes two to make a relationship work (or not). However, it's simplistic in the extreme to blame a woman not "keeping up appearances" for her partner's infidelities.

Oh, and Lamia, is it still purple stretch pants day? 'Cause I'm definitely wearing mine today.


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## Surlysomething (May 25, 2011)

Shosh said:


> My point also stands. I am not privileged. I only have time to do those things because having a disability has stolen my ability to be able to work.
> I resent you thinking that my life is so easy, because it most certainly is not.
> Financially, physically, emotionally, it has been hard.
> 
> I have been through a hell of a lot of hardship that many never have to face in their life, so please do not belittle that.


 
The Australian social system is MUCH better than most countries though. I don't think you would have access to as much funding or help if you lived in the US. You probably ARE more privileged, but not in the way they're thinking.


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## Latte (May 25, 2011)

Shosh said:


> My point also stands. I am not privileged. I only have time to do those things because having a disability has stolen my ability to be able to work.
> I resent you thinking that my life is so easy, because it most certainly is not.
> Financially, physically, emotionally, it has been hard.
> 
> I have been through a hell of a lot of hardship that many never have to face in their life, so please do not belittle that.



You have the internet. You have food. You aren't required to take public transportation everywhere. Everyone has hardship. This isn't a pissing contest on how life is difficult. Life is difficult, full stop. 

My grandma has MS. She's had it since she was in her 20's. She's 78. She's retired now but she volunteers with the MS Society of Washington DC, she does community service, she donates time and resources to her senior building, in fact she took law classes with her fellow seniors to learn how to save their building from being purchased by a developer. She goes on cruises and vacations and she has a boyfriend (she's a widow) and she lives on a fixed income and pays for everything except visiting family herself. She has a scooter but hates to use it so she walks everywhere with her walker - she calls it her "Cadillac". She recognizes that she lives a privileged life despite her disease and a lot of hardship. 

MS didn't steal your ability to do anything. Your choices, your attitude, and your perceptions are the only things that prevent you from doing what you want. Negativity begets negativity. Open your eyes and see the world from a place of "I can" rather than "I can't" and perhaps life will seem good enough that you don't have to judge other people's choices.


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## louisaml (May 25, 2011)

http://www.wmur.com/news/27908389/detail.html


So I saw this on our local news site. The article is some stupid fluff piece about when women are too old to wear certain things. The vast majority of comments are anti fat. Who the hell do people think they are. Human beings already have enough insecurities.


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## louisaml (May 25, 2011)

No two people have the same abilities or the same symptoms when it comes to a condition that is mental, physical, or both. I am saying this in general, I am not pointing fingers. Some people are going to feel worse then others, we have no right to judge someone or tell them how they should feel. Everybody is different. This is a forum for free speech but within that right to free speech you can't go around attacking people.


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## Surlysomething (May 25, 2011)

Latte said:


> You have the internet. You have food. You aren't required to take public transportation everywhere. Everyone has hardship. This isn't a pissing contest on how life is difficult. Life is difficult, full stop.
> 
> My grandma has MS. She's had it since she was in her 20's. She's 78. She's retired now but she volunteers with the MS Society of Washington DC, she does community service, she donates time and resources to her senior building, in fact she took law classes with her fellow seniors to learn how to save their building from being purchased by a developer. She goes on cruises and vacations and she has a boyfriend (she's a widow) and she lives on a fixed income and pays for everything except visiting family herself. She has a scooter but hates to use it so she walks everywhere with her walker - she calls it her "Cadillac". She recognizes that she lives a privileged life despite her disease and a lot of hardship.
> 
> MS didn't steal your ability to do anything. Your choices, your attitude, and your perceptions are the only things that prevent you from doing what you want. Negativity begets negativity. Open your eyes and see the world from a place of "I can" rather than "I can't" and perhaps life will seem good enough that you don't have to judge other people's choices.


 
Whoa. Let's not go picking apart someone with a legitimate health problem. MS is VERY different for each person and how one handles it is very different. Let's not paint anyone into a corner here.

Shosh's MS has been quite debilitating at times and she's not able to go on cruises or what not. She's quite active for having gone through so much. Privilege is also relative, right? For someone who once had a thriving career and now lives on a disability, their new "budget" is quite the blow. 

I also have MS (recently diagnosed) and i'm super-thankful that i'm as mobile as I am. I can still work and that's something I KNOW Shosh misses very much. So in that sense, i'm privileged compared to her. 

It's all relative.


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## Shosh (May 25, 2011)

Latte said:


> You have the internet. You have food. You aren't required to take public transportation everywhere. Everyone has hardship. This isn't a pissing contest on how life is difficult. Life is difficult, full stop.
> 
> My grandma has MS. She's had it since she was in her 20's. She's 78. She's retired now but she volunteers with the MS Society of Washington DC, she does community service, she donates time and resources to her senior building, in fact she took law classes with her fellow seniors to learn how to save their building from being purchased by a developer. She goes on cruises and vacations and she has a boyfriend (she's a widow) and she lives on a fixed income and pays for everything except visiting family herself. She has a scooter but hates to use it so she walks everywhere with her walker - she calls it her "Cadillac". She recognizes that she lives a privileged life despite her disease and a lot of hardship.
> 
> MS didn't steal your ability to do anything. Your choices, your attitude, and your perceptions are the only things that prevent you from doing what you want. Negativity begets negativity. Open your eyes and see the world from a place of "I can" rather than "I can't" and perhaps life will seem good enough that you don't have to judge other people's choices.



You do not actually have this disease,so you are not really in the position to be able to understand the hardship it can bring to your life.
Your grandmother has it, you do not. 
I think that YOU are the one who needs to understand that you can rather than you cant in terms of making an effort to present yourself well, with few resources.
All I am hearing from you is excuses, excuses, excuses, and guess what, you have the internet as well! 
I am guessing you have food also.

Ignorance begets ignorance.

For those who have feedback that I can work with, I thank you. As I said I have thought about some of the points raised.


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## disconnectedsmile (May 25, 2011)

Surlysomething said:


> Do you have MS?



i sincerely apologize if you, Surlysomething, were offended by my remark.
i did not intend to slight those diagnosed with MS.
i only intended to highlight Shosh's propensity to victimize herself to a nauseating degree.


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## Miss Vickie (May 25, 2011)

Surlysomething said:


> Whoa. Let's not go picking apart someone with a legitimate health problem. MS is VERY different for each person and how one handles it is very different. Let's not paint anyone into a corner here.
> 
> Shosh's MS has been quite debilitating at times and she's not able to go on cruises or what not. She's quite active for having gone through so much. Privilege is also relative, right? For someone who once had a thriving career and now lives on a disability, their new "budget" is quite the blow.
> 
> ...



Well said, Surlysomething. The course of MS is so varied. Of the people I know who have MS, I have one friend who's legally blind, another who works full time as a nurse on my unit with no visible signs of disability, another who has spent years in a wheelchair and only recently has been able to walk again after nearly a decade. And then you and Shosh, whose disease course is markedly different.

Like my own disease, Sarcoidosis, it's very varied. There are people who have Sarc who are dead in months from neurological complications or lung failure. Others, like me, live a long time with various flare ups and if we're careful can live full and fairly active lives. Others have no symptoms. Still others get super sick and then it goes into remission.

What we know about autoimmune diseases is far more than what we know, so we have to be careful about judging each other based on what we think we know about a disease. And my previous comment still stands -- that we shouldn't judge each other based on our own thoughts about what is "proper attire".


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## fluffyandcute (May 25, 2011)

Latte said:


> You have the internet. You have food. You aren't required to take public transportation everywhere. Everyone has hardship. This isn't a pissing contest on how life is difficult. Life is difficult, full stop.
> 
> My grandma has MS. She's had it since she was in her 20's. She's 78. She's retired now but she volunteers with the MS Society of Washington DC, she does community service, she donates time and resources to her senior building, in fact she took law classes with her fellow seniors to learn how to save their building from being purchased by a developer. She goes on cruises and vacations and she has a boyfriend (she's a widow) and she lives on a fixed income and pays for everything except visiting family herself. She has a scooter but hates to use it so she walks everywhere with her walker - she calls it her "Cadillac". She recognizes that she lives a privileged life despite her disease and a lot of hardship.
> 
> MS didn't steal your ability to do anything. Your choices, your attitude, and your perceptions are the only things that prevent you from doing what you want. Negativity begets negativity. Open your eyes and see the world from a place of "I can" rather than "I can't" and perhaps life will seem good enough that you don't have to judge other people's choices.





When did this become an MS BOARD??? Until you have lived with the disease, you cannot comment on the daily struggles MS causes! You need to be a little kinder and more considerate of others feelings!!!


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## Shosh (May 25, 2011)

fluffyandcute said:


> When did this become an MS BOARD??? Until you have lived with the disease, you cannot comment on the daily struggles MS causes! You need to be a little kinder and more considerate of others feelings!!!



The only reason I spoke about my life and it's hardships is because that person kept trying to say that I am so privileged.
Had that person not gone on and on about priviliege etc, and making false assumptions about my life and who I am, I would not have had to even speak about it.

Very frustrating.

It is good to have two other women come out and say how hard it is living with this disease. That person may want to take note of that.


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## CastingPearls (May 25, 2011)

I don't have MS but like Vickie, I too have a condition which while very under-researched appears to be an auto-immune disease.

Because this thread is not about whose disease is more pitiful and although by some strange formula or reasoning makes certain individuals assume they're more entitled to their opinion than anyone else, my disease is not relevant to this thread. 

However, I have never used it as an excuse to behave in a vile manner. I own up to my own behavior good and bad because using it as a crutch is cowardly. It doesn't define me and the typical attempts to garner pity and attention because one has a disability is disgusting but not at all surprising.


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## TraciJo67 (May 25, 2011)

Well, leaving the issue of disability for a moment (as it seems to creep up over and over again) and heading back to the topic at hand:

Unless you've got menstrual stains in your stretch pants or something, why would anyone ever find the need to comment on what you wear?


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## Surlysomething (May 25, 2011)

I'm bowing out of this thread as it's become kind of sickening.


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## PhiloGirl (May 25, 2011)

As far as being "privileged" goes... I just wanted to throw out there that my thought when I read that line, Shosh, was not that you are "spoiled", but that _compared to someone who cannot bargain-hunt_, you are privileged _in that respect._ The meaning I got from the person who posted that message (sorry can't find your name right now), was that _if_ you are looking at other women and thinking that they're a mess and it's just so easy to look better, that you should consider that perhaps they cannot do the same things you can. I believe the word privileged was used not to make it sound like you have _everything_ so easy, but to bring up the possibility that what is easy (or even possible) _for you_ may not be easy or possible _for others_.

EDIT: (_Lots _of italics in this post. I feel the need to _emphasize _when relying on text only to convey comparisons, apparently.)


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## Shosh (May 25, 2011)

Surlysomething said:


> I'm bowing out of this thread as it's become kind of sickening.



I agree.

Someone asked me why I bother giving my opinions here at Dimensions, opinions that were asked for in threads, and I can honestly say that I do not know why I bother.

Time is precious and it should be spent being involved in things that are going to actually enhance your life and give it meaning.


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## Latte (May 26, 2011)

fluffyandcute said:


> When did this become an MS BOARD??? Until you have lived with the disease, you cannot comment on the daily struggles MS causes! You need to be a little kinder and more considerate of others feelings!!!



First, conversations ebb and flow. You can't control the direction of a thread just because someone disagrees with you.

Next, let's follow your logic. You assume that because I don't have a particular illness I know nothing about them? That seems a little unfair and dare I say, judgmental?

I've been a caretaker of someone with a chronic illness for 13 years, but I can't comment on the daily struggles of a disease? I have an injury that will follow me for the rest of my life but until I have lived with one particular disease I can't comment on how difficult life is? Please. 

I wasn't inconsiderate to you, or Shosh and she's a grown-ass woman. She can pick and fight her own battles. I was polite and made my argument kindly. Just because I disagree or have a different point of view and don't sugarcoat it doesn't make me rude. It makes me an adult living in reality.


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## disconnectedsmile (May 26, 2011)

Latte said:


> ...or Shosh and she's a grown-ass woman.



i feel like i missed something here.


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## penguin (May 26, 2011)

Shosh said:


> I agree.
> 
> Someone asked me why I bother giving my opinions here at Dimensions, opinions that were asked for in threads, and I can honestly say that I do not know why I bother.
> 
> Time is precious and it should be spent being involved in things that are going to actually enhance your life and give it meaning.



I do agree that time is precious and if you're not enjoying something that takes up your free time then it's probably best to give it up.

Having said that, if you're not prepared to have to defend your opinions given on a forum, then you're best off keeping them to yourself. I'm not here to agree with everyone on everything they said, nor am I here to argue with everyone over everything said. But if I feel the need to speak up about something, I will. I'm not pandering to egos.


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## LillyBBBW (May 26, 2011)

Surlysomething said:


> I'm bowing out of this thread as it's become kind of sickening.



I agree. To me it's a clear example of those strange ironies surrounding an illness of any kind. When you've got one and you've got it really bad, after a while people don't want to bother with you because you're a drag and it seems like you use your illness or whatever. If you fight hard every day to stay on top and keep up appearances people belittle your struggle and talk about how unimportant it is compared to the Cambodian refugees and what not. I don't envy anybody with an illness trying to argue with people who are determined to pontificate on what's appropriate for him to feel or expect from life. I think that may be the worst part of any illness is how people perceive those who have one. If you can still breathe and peel an orange, then by gumb you can fight in Afghanistan. And being fat with an illness?? Pssh.


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## NancyGirl74 (May 26, 2011)

Honestly, I think this thread has turned into something other than being fat or having an illness...

We all know people have their illnesses and issues and they MATTER. The problem is when people bring up their issues constantly as a form of argument. When the issue partains to the debate or topic please share! We want you to! When it's another "Oh yeah? Well my issue is worse than yours" comment thrown in the faces of others that issue starts to lose it's effect and people start to lose their compassion. It is tiring and depressing. And while most of us try to be empathic and sympathetic of each others situations there is a time and a place for those issues to be discussed. It is not always YOU YOU YOU. Sometimes it is ME and although my problems may appear less significant in comparison to yours they are still important to me. It is not a pissing contest. Although sometimes that is exactly how it appears here at times and I think many people are tired of it.


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## LillyBBBW (May 26, 2011)

NancyGirl74 said:


> Honestly, I think this thread has turned into something other than being fat or having an illness...
> 
> We all know people have their illnesses and issues and they MATTER. The problem is when people bring up their issues constantly as a form of argument. When the issue partains to the debate or topic please share! We want you to! When it's another "Oh yeah? Well my issue is worse than yours" comment thrown in the faces of others that issue starts to lose it's effect and people start to lose their compassion. It is tiring and depressing. And while most of us try to be empathic and sympathetic of each others situations there is a time and a place for those issues to be discussed. It is not always YOU YOU YOU. Sometimes it is ME and although my problems may appear less significant in comparison to yours they are still important to me. It is not a pissing contest. Although sometimes that is exactly how it appears here at times and I think many people are tired of it.



I realize that but it still smarts to be a bystander to all this carnage. There are lots of people struggling quietly through limitations who somehow make it look easy and seamless. When that person is you it's hard to see someone else take a course beating and not make it personal. I just think there are more effective ways of shutting someone down than saying, "400 pounds? My grandpa was 400 and ran two marathons with a bum hip, you ain't shit." It's going to upset people.


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## chicken legs (May 26, 2011)

Folks, if you don't like someone's comments, please use the block feature. Derailing a thread about it, is highly annoying.


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## mossystate (May 26, 2011)

Let's get back to judging fat women on what we wear.:bow:


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## louisaml (May 26, 2011)

was my humor not appreciated? I apologize if I offended anyone. I was just trying to lighten the mood.


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## EvilPrincess (May 26, 2011)

A team of about a thousand highly paid moderators have spent countless hours reading every post and response in this thread. They have debated and come to the conclusion that some of the posts were either over the line, argumentative, or just off topic. As a group they felt feelings were getting hurt and the level of sarcasm was contributing to the hole in the ozone. As a result some posts have been removed or edited for your reading enjoyment. 

(translation: Things were wandering, and escalating, this is a good topic and should be salvaged. Some of the reported posts were deleted or edited, and from what I was able to determine it has been cleaned up to a degree that will be acceptable to MOST. If you feel I missed something please reach out through PM or report a post. Thank you for your understanding - EP )


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## Lamia (May 26, 2011)

mossystate said:


> Let's get back to judging fat women on what we wear.:bow:



I agree! One time I saw a fat woman wearing purple and she looked like an eggplant and an eggplant tried to kill me one time so I have negative feelings about eggplants and the color purple so fat women shouldn't wear it. In fact no one should...let's just ban purple because I dislike it and therefore it's bad.


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## BlueBurning (May 26, 2011)

I've always assumed most individuals did make some kind of judgment about others based on what they were wearing and often body size did play a part in the kind of judgements that were made.


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## penguin (May 27, 2011)

Lamia said:


> I agree! One time I saw a fat woman wearing purple and she looked like an eggplant and an eggplant tried to kill me one time so I have negative feelings about eggplants and the color purple so fat women shouldn't wear it. In fact no one should...let's just ban purple because I dislike it and therefore it's bad.



Hell to the no. I love purple. I will now dress in all purple and act like an eggplant just to torment you.


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## LillyBBBW (May 27, 2011)

Lamia said:


> I agree! One time I saw a fat woman wearing purple and she looked like an eggplant and an eggplant tried to kill me one time so I have negative feelings about eggplants and the color purple so fat women shouldn't wear it. In fact no one should...let's just ban purple because I dislike it and therefore it's bad.



Wha?? Prince is not amused.


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## disconnectedsmile (May 27, 2011)

LillyBBBW said:


> Wha?? Prince is not amused.



is he ever?


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## tonynyc (May 27, 2011)

Now that the weather is getting warmer......


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## Surlysomething (May 27, 2011)

LillyBBBW said:


> Wha?? Prince is not amused.


 

I love that sassy, little purple dude!


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## tinkerbell (May 27, 2011)

LillyBBBW said:


> Wha?? Prince is not amused.



I love that look he's giving. I wish I could make that face.


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## penguin (May 27, 2011)

Prince is the king of side eye.


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## superodalisque (May 27, 2011)

i basically think the perceptions about fat women are fashioned by what people see right in front of them. i hate to think of what people think of what they see in front of them in this thread from all sides.


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## LillyBBBW (May 30, 2011)

penguin said:


> Prince is the king of side eye.



And he's truly up there when it comes to guyliner. Royalty! <3


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## darlingzooloo (May 30, 2011)

hehehehe <3 Prince

Also i refuse to ban purple, it's one of my favorite colors! 

As for perceptions on how bigger people look in clothes I'm a firm believer that every body type can look good in something, and that some people have a knack for finding/picking those somethings, and others like myself are semi-clueless. XD; Lucky for me I now have fashion-major friends to bug about what looks good on me and what doesn't..because let's face it, after staring at yourself in the mirror for however long and being told you are "too big" or getting frustrated when you don't fit in a cute blouse or skirt it's really hard to reach out of your clothing comfort zone and try something different, or even to believe you'll look good in something. (That's where good friends and family come in.) <3


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## wtchmel (May 31, 2011)

Hmmm....i don't 'do' my hair or wear makeup anymore, I suppose i'm frumpy and have 'let' myself go.( even though i'm more confident then i've ever been then when i was thin).
Oh, well, it's more of a pain in my ass then anything else.


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## Lamia (Jun 2, 2011)

penguin said:


> Hell to the no. I love purple. I will now dress in all purple and act like an eggplant just to torment you.



nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!

of course you know...this means WAR


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jun 2, 2011)

Lamia said:


> of course you know...this means WAR



Or, at the very least, baba ganouj.


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## penguin (Jun 2, 2011)

Lamia said:


> nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!
> 
> of course you know...this means WAR



The other day, my daughter chose to wear purple leggings AND a purple shirt, and I thought of this thread


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## Miss Vickie (Jun 2, 2011)

penguin said:


> The other day, my daughter chose to wear purple leggings AND a purple shirt, and I thought of this thread



Oooh, good for her. I got new purple Dansko's and I had purple stripes put into my hair and I, too, thought of this thread.


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## Jello404 (Jun 3, 2011)

Now you guys are making me want to buy some purple! lol

I just bought 2 maxi dresses and one summer dress from Simply Fashions last night. I love them! Lots of cleavage,form fitting and the maxi dresses are long and flowy.I love it.First dresses Ive worn since a kid...Im sorta coming out of my tom boy phase.I started wearing shorts a few summers ago. Its a slow process but I made it! Only skimpy cloths for me this summer!


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## KittyKitten (Jun 5, 2011)

When I see a larger woman dressed fashionably and put together, I see a goddess. There is nothing more beautiful than a BBW looking fly.


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## CastingPearls (Jun 5, 2011)

happyface83 said:


> When I see a larger woman dressed fashionably and put together, I see a goddess. There is nothing more beautiful than a BBW looking fly.


I absolutely agree. 

However,

When I see a fat woman who's struggling to make ends meet, or is a single mom where every last penny goes to bills and feeding her kids, or a woman who works in a field that isn't glamorous but it is a worthy service, or a woman who cares less about the inside than helping others on the outside, or a woman who doesn't particularly consider herself especially glam or femme but is proud of where she's going and how far she's come....I see a beautiful human being.


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## NancyGirl74 (Jun 5, 2011)

This is the problem with being so surface oriented as a society. We never truly get the whole story just from a glance. We all take that first look at someone and judge them by their appearance. _We all do it._

Happyface might see a well put-together BBW and think, "Here is a Goddess who is confident and self assured." That might very well be the case. Or, what Happy could be seeing is a woman who has the time and means to look like a "goddess" but her home is a wreck she actually lives like a slob. You just don't know from a first glance. More often than not a BBW who is dressed down in casual clothes may come across as someone lacking in self-confidence at that critical first glance. She’s fat so that in and of its self might say “slob” or any number of other negative things to many people. But even to someone who is not biased by fat prejudice might look at her dressed down appearance and see someone who looks to be lacking self worth. She's rushing through Wal-Mart, tired, sweaty, and disheveled looking. She looks like a train wreck. So to many that is exactly what she is. Really what they are seeing is a woman who just came from work where she played basketball with her after-school class and has to grab some milk for her family's dinner before heading home. She's just too busy being so many things to so many people that she hasn't the time or the inclination to worry about what others might see when they look at her. What people will never know because we choose to look at surfaces is that the woman I just described, the one dismissed as an unconfident slob because of her appearance ... that was the real Goddess.


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## KittyKitten (Jun 5, 2011)

You can look put together and still be a hard worker. I took over a tough teaching position mid- year in a class of rowdy students (bless their hearts), coming to work at 7am and not leaving many times until 6 pm-grading, planning, meetings, etc. It's almost the end of the school year and I feel great (though a little tired) and proud of my kids and the structure that I gave them. 

I also work part-time as a tutor in another city, but I manage to keep my hair looking nice, wardrobe looking great, and makeup looking good. You can do it all and still look fly. I also use my mother as example, great woman, powerful career, yet still keeps her appearance very well. That is just my opinion that may not be shared with others, but that is fine.


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## mossystate (Jun 5, 2011)

maybe...some...women...don't...think...about...looking...' fly '...because...they...don't...even...think...about...such...things...and...as...long...as...their...appearance...is...not...affecting...YOUR...life...give...it...a...rest


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## NancyGirl74 (Jun 5, 2011)

happyface83 said:


> You can look put together and still be a hard worker. I took over a tough teaching position mid- year in a class of rowdy students (bless their hearts), coming to work at 7am and not leaving many times until 6 pm-grading, planning, meetings, etc. It's almost the end of the school year and I feel great (though a little tired) and proud of my kids and the structure that I gave them.
> 
> I also work part-time as a tutor in another city, but I manage to keep my hair looking nice, wardrobe looking great, and makeup looking good. You can do it all and still look fly. I also use my mother as example, great woman, powerful career, yet still keeps her appearance very well. That is just my opinion that may not be shared with others, but that is fine.



I didn't say your opinion was not valid. I was just saying that clothing does not make the woman and first impressions are often wrong.


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## KittyKitten (Jun 5, 2011)

Shosh said:


> I think men should care about how they present themselves also.
> 
> I don't think it takes much effort to put yourself together properly.
> I am not saying people have to wear expensive designer clothes, I myself pick up cute inexpensive clothes from thrift stores, I will be honest and say that I dislike seeing women wearing sweatpants and sloppy t shirts and sneakers etc.
> ...



Right, you don't have to have a lot of money to look good. Heck, many cute outfits are found at your neighborhood Walmart, Cato, or Rainbow. I don't like sweatpants nor sloppy attire. That goes for men as well.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jun 5, 2011)

Is it _deja vu_, or have we had this discussion before?


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## penguin (Jun 5, 2011)

happyface83 said:


> I also work part-time as a tutor in another city, but I manage to keep my hair looking nice, wardrobe looking great, and makeup looking good. You can do it all and still look fly. I also use my mother as example, great woman, powerful career, yet still keeps her appearance very well. That is just my opinion that may not be shared with others, but that is fine.



I don't have a lot of money and would rather spend it clothing my daughter or giving her a better start than on clothes for me. Would I like a better wardrobe? Yes, definitely. But clothes for me are far more expensive, so I can buy more for her with the same money. I try to dress nicely with what I have, but I don't wear much jewellery, rarely wear makeup, and have no interest spending ages doing my hair in the morning. I'll use some hair products, but I have too much hair to be interested in using a hair dryer or straightener every day. I'll moisturise to take care of my skin and have it feel nice, and dye my lashes and eyebrows so that I have some, but I don't go out much so I have no interest in wearing makeup just to pop down to the shops. I'm not the most fashionable person around, but I don't think I'm a slob either. I'm just normal.


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## mossystate (Jun 5, 2011)

All this is similar to other discussions about good fat people...and bad fat people. 


A good fat women better have reasons why she is not keeping up with the grooming and/or the clothing. She better have little time...she better be volunteering 67 hours a week...etc.. She has to have an ' excuse '. And even then, others swoop in to tell them that since _they_ want to manage... every fat woman should manage. 



It's, Don't Eat A Croissant On A Train, Fat Woman........Looks, Clothing, Makeup, Hair, Edition.


blah


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## NancyGirl74 (Jun 5, 2011)

I might ruffle a few feathers by saying this but...

I think a lot of what we call "perception" amounts to snobbery. Someone might not see sweatpants as stylish and that just is fine. But when that thought turns into thinking someone wearing sweatpants is somehow "sloppy" and therefore "less" in the eyes of the beholder...then the beholder might just be a snob.


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## Surlysomething (Jun 5, 2011)

But guess what? Some people really are slobs. Fat slobs. Thin slobs. Average sized slobs. And some aren't.


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## tinkerbell (Jun 5, 2011)

Surlysomething said:


> But guess what? Some people really are slobs. Fat slobs. Thin slobs. Average sized slobs. And some aren't.



And whats your point? I guess I dont care if people are "slobs" or not. To each their own.


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## Surlysomething (Jun 5, 2011)

tinkerbell said:


> And whats your point? I guess I dont care if people are "slobs" or not. To each their own.




Exactly what I said. Did I stutter?


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## CastingPearls (Jun 5, 2011)

NancyGirl74 said:


> I might ruffle a few feathers by saying this but...
> 
> I think a lot of what we call "perception" amounts to snobbery. Someone might not see sweatpants as stylish and that just is fine. But when that thought turns into thinking someone wearing sweatpants is somehow "sloppy" and therefore "less" in the eyes of the beholder...then the beholder might just be a snob.



Ruffle feathers. A lot of them are cheap and fake anyway and have about as much depth as tin foil.

It's a false sense of superiority because they aren't any better than anyone else especially based on something as superficial as APPEARANCE. Just because society judges doesn't mean we (fat people) have to follow the crowd and be equally criticial and superficial. Just because you are able doesn't mean you should or have to. Just because it's your opinion doesn't make it true or accurate.


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## tinkerbell (Jun 6, 2011)

Surlysomething said:


> Exactly what I said. Did I stutter?



 I see why you have to go out all dressed up  to hide that nasty attitude of yours! 

Who cares if people are slobs? Really, why does it matter SO much to you how other people dress and care for themselves?


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## Surlysomething (Jun 6, 2011)

tinkerbell said:


> I see why you have to go out all dressed up  to hide that nasty attitude of yours!
> 
> Who cares if people are slobs? Really, why does it matter SO much to you how other people dress and care for themselves?




That's what you got out of what I said? Wow.

The intelligentsia is alive and well.


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## Saoirse (Jun 6, 2011)

tinkerbell said:


> I see why you have to go out all dressed up  to hide that nasty attitude of yours!
> 
> Who cares if people are slobs? Really, why does it matter SO much to you how other people dress and care for themselves?



I think you may have misunderstood Surly's post.


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## disconnectedsmile (Jun 6, 2011)

mossystate said:


> Don't Eat A Croissant On A Train, Fat Woman


oh that was a classic


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## mz_puss (Jun 10, 2011)

olwen said:


> I've encountered comments like that. What bothers me more is the "I don't see you as fat" part. It's like fat is something that has to be overlooked. It just irks me.



I totally agree with this ! After years of conditioning my friends they now use the word fat when describing me as it should be used. people have no problem saying "tall Julie" or "red head julie" or "big boobs julie" why should they have a problem with "fat julie", its just an adjective like any other. so now when my friends refer to me its "have you met my fabulous sexy fat friend Julie "............... after which i make my grand entrance lol.



happyface83 said:


> When I see a larger woman dressed fashionably and put together, I see a goddess. There is nothing more beautiful than a BBW looking fly.



I tend to agree, a big well dressed confident woman just steals the limelight. Im a girl who comes from no money, lived in a lot of foster homes and even on the streets in my teen years, ive also always been big. So buying fly clothes was not an option, however one thing that can replace a fancy outfit is confidence and self respect, shoulders back head up and smile darlings, you will always look a million dollars, let haters know they cant touch you ! 

( and please avoid fluro colors,mullets and ill fitted clothes- just my personal style tips lol )


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## anneblithe (Jun 10, 2011)

Work relationships can be hard to negotiate, especially if you mostly work with women.
Ex: I once observed that I was hungry because I had skipped breakfast and had popcorn for dinner the night before.
Response from kindly coworker? "Oh, I bet you've never missed a meal!"
Ex2: (this has happened multiple times) I observe that I would much rather pick up something to bring to a company get-together rather than plan and cook.
Response from kindly coworker? "Oh, but YOU must be a GREAT cook!"

So, to the OP . . . Perceptions of fat women are more than just about whether they are 'frumpy' or 'classy,' but go a LOT deeper than that . . . we are, it seems, meant to be either 'matronly' or 'slovenly' in our personal habits as well.

Women are the worst critics of other women.


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## anneblithe (Jun 10, 2011)

I want to add to that-- here's a conversation I overheard a few years ago between two coworkers, " ______ really is a pretty girl." "Yes, she really is." I walked up. "We were just saying how you really are a pretty girl. You know?"

It sounds so sweet and innocent when read online, but it was not. Lurking behind every period was the intended rest of the sentence. "It's just your weight...."


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## one2one (Jun 11, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> I absolutely agree.
> 
> However,
> 
> When I see a fat woman who's struggling to make ends meet, or is a single mom where every last penny goes to bills and feeding her kids, or a woman who works in a field that isn't glamorous but it is a worthy service, or a woman who cares less about the inside than helping others on the outside, or a woman who doesn't particularly consider herself especially glam or femme but is proud of where she's going and how far she's come....I see a beautiful human being.



Beautifully stated.


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## ThikJerseyChik (Jun 12, 2011)

fatgirlflyin said:


> A woman choosing or not choosing to dress one way or another isn't the reason a man cheats. They cheat because they don't respect their partner or the promises they made to their partner enough to be honest with how they are feeling and instead look for instant gratification in the arms of someone else. It is about the choices they make and how they decide to handle conflict, not the lack of a dress and pearls...



Wanted to rep you - great post!


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jun 12, 2011)

I love eating big fat cheeseburgers....some people have the mistaken impression that I would like bacon on it though....:doh:


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## tonynyc (Jun 12, 2011)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I love eating big fat cheeseburgers....some people have the mistaken impression that I would like bacon on it though....:doh:



rare? medium? or well done?


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## Juice (Jun 13, 2011)

I was asked (in my face) many times if I am lazy. People think I am fat to do something about myself therefore I am lazy (my career and achievements are overshadowed by my weight altogether). 

I was asked many times if I have a thyroid disease. People assume that to be this fat I must have a disease. Nobody gets that fat without being sick. 

I was also asked how I stand myself being this fat. "Don't you feel sad by your figure"? somebody asked me. 

Other misconceptions I've heard many times about me and my weight:
"You have a good heart that's why you are fat"
"You have a lot of energy for a person of your size"
"Pretty face" (I can't stand this comment any more) 

I remember years ago when I was about 150 pounds less than I am today I was dating a guy. He was nice, sweet and kind but he would never ever attempt to have sex with me. We were dating for two months after I decided to confront him. Was he gay or was he repulsed by my body? His answer was that he did not mind me being fat and he did not dislike my body but he was afraid that he would not be gifted enough for my size:doh:


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