# Too Skinny contestant-in Miss Universe



## Pearlover90000 (Apr 24, 2009)

I suppose they had this story on my MSN homepage for some kind of shock value.

Some miss australia was in the miss universe pagent and doctors and others were saying she was too skinny to be in the contest, and that she should be checked out --bloodwork, etc.

She's early 20's ---5'11 and -- 108lbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that's 108 pounds at 5'11

I put the pic from the board, and I'm sorry if it's perpetuating this shit.

PL


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## Cors (Apr 24, 2009)

I agree that she should go through some sort of screening and be barred from the contest, even though some claim that it is size discrimination. If fat girls are not allowed to participate because it supposedly promotes unhealthiness, then emaciated girls should stay away for the same reason. 

However, it is entirely possible to be _naturally_ this thin and healthy, though an extremely low weight does predispose one to certain health issues. I lived in Asia and was constantly surrounded by incredibly tiny girls who actually look like that (a pint-sized version, of course) and I am sure most of them don't have eating disorders.


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## Fallenangel2904 (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm sorry, but looking at that picture- she does not look healthy to me. I'm sure some people would look at pictures of a larger woman, and say the same thing, but we aren't exactly contestants in the Miss Universe pageant. She looks emaciated, and that is what is being projected to our youth who are watching this show. I think she is too thin to be in this pageant. At 5'11 and 108lbs, her BMI is 15.1- which makes her under weight (Anything under an 18 is under weight) Not that I pay all that much attention to the BMI scale, because hell I am way over weight- but like I said- I am not in the Miss Universe contest. I think all the contestants that participate in the pageant should fall within the 'normal weight' guidelines. If that means excluding over weight contents, so be it, but I believe that they should not allow someone who is under weight to participate. That is a negative projection to the world on what is healthy. JMO.


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## Pearlover90000 (Apr 25, 2009)

I totally agree FallenAngel.

I think it's way off what should be allowed to 'represent.'
There was some talk of banning girls that thin anyway, before this one.

My family is from the bronx.

PL


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## Fallenangel2904 (Apr 25, 2009)

Pearlover90000 said:


> I totally agree FallenAngel.
> 
> I think it's way off what should be allowed to 'represent.'
> There was some talk of banning girls that thin anyway, before this one.
> ...



Exactly! If you project that out to the world, that's what t he world is going to think they need to look like in order to be what society considers 'beautiful'. That's how bad body images are formed. Not good. 

And side note...Bronx people rock!  haha!


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## Fyreflyintheskye (Apr 25, 2009)

This photo reminds me of the Stretch Armstrong toy.


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## mrwondercake (Apr 25, 2009)

Honestly, that photo is just down right scary! She is like a weird sexy smiling skeleton. She looks like she would break if she fell over!


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 25, 2009)

This girl is absolutely gorgeous in my opinion, regardless of size. I do think she looks too small though. However, I don't think it's far to eliminate her from competing unless it's determined that shes this not naturally this small because there are some people who are just naturally thin. I also don't think it's fair to call her scary, weird, and bad for other peoples body image. Reverse sizeism isn't cool.


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## GutsGirl (Apr 26, 2009)

mrwondercake said:


> Honestly, that photo is just down right scary! She is like a weird sexy smiling skeleton. She looks like she would break if she fell over!



Look, I don't really want to stir up trouble, but isn't that kind of unfair to say? And also kind of cruel? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, after all, and size acceptance is acceptance of any natural size, whether a person's body happens to be larger than average or thinner than average. It's fine to not be attracted to her sort of physique and to say honestly that it doesn't turn you on, but is saying she looks like a weird skeleton really necessary? What if she has no control over how big or small her body is? Your comment honestly struck me as reverse discrimination.

I also think it's unfair to assume that she has an eating disorder -- not that people here on Dims are doing that, because they aren't, but I think it is still unfair for anyone to assume that. We don't know her and we don't live with her. Only those who do could guess whether she has a problem with food. If she does, she needs help. If she doesn't and is just naturally very thin, then that's the way her body is. 

Also, I honestly really don't know that these sorts of pageants influence the average woman's view of herself and her body too much. I am speaking from a very limited perspective, but I personally don't think that my view of my body was ever influenced by any pageant contestant, no matter how she looked (though granted, I have absolutely zero interest in any sort of pageant to begin with). I would say that my body image was shaped by other things, many of which I cannot name, which were probably my own latent insecurities. But pageant contestants didn't enter into that.

I know I don't speak for everyone, but I'd have to question just how influential pageant contestants and high fashion models are on American/European women's views of their body. In my (again, limited) experience, they weren't too influential at all (my biggest influence being that I thought Eve Salvail was and still is incredibly beautiful when I saw her in _The Fifth Element_, and that never caused me to hate myself or my body, though she did fit my physical ideal). 

I think that the media is definitely an influence on women, but I think that this influence comes in a different form and a different way -- dieting ads with their 'before and after' pictures, the assumption that things like love handles are ugly, and the tabloid media's constant depictions of 'best and worst bodies' and things like how New Celebrity Mommy X 'got her body back' (i.e., dropped pregnancy weight as quickly as possible in order to NOT look like a person who has recently given birth). IMHO, those things are far more influential, being that they stigmatize weight, old age, and pregnancy as things that ruin a perfect, youthful, virginal, non-maternal body.

Just my 2 cents.


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## SocialbFly (Apr 26, 2009)

GutsGirl said:


> Look, I don't really want to stir up trouble, but isn't that kind of unfair to say? And also kind of cruel? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, after all, and size acceptance is acceptance of any natural size, whether a person's body happens to be larger than average or thinner than average. It's fine to not be attracted to her sort of physique and to say honestly that it doesn't turn you on, but is saying she looks like a weird skeleton really necessary? What if she has no control over how big or small her body is? Your comment honestly struck me as reverse discrimination.
> 
> I also think it's unfair to assume that she has an eating disorder -- not that people here on Dims are doing that, because they aren't, but I think it is still unfair for anyone to assume that. We don't know her and we don't live with her. Only those who do could guess whether she has a problem with food. If she does, she needs help. If she doesn't and is just naturally very thin, then that's the way her body is.
> 
> ...



I agree, this site is for acceptance...i am sure they (the thinner people) could come here and say we don't look healthy and in fact, in many ways i am not...

she is just on the other end of the spectrum and unless you know her personally, judging her on her eating habits or anything else is unfair. Walk a mile in her shoes, then we can talk about it...

and yes, this is only my opinion, i speak for no one else here...


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## vardon_grip (Apr 26, 2009)

If people are going to preach HAES, you have to stand behind it all the way. It has to extend to both ends of the spectrum to be true.

I also agree with the posters who advocate tolerance and acceptance in place of ridicule.



one last note: There is nothing in the rules for Miss USA/Miss Universe pageant that prevent a woman of size from competing. (Chloe Marshall is a recent example) The rules only say that the young woman "Must be of good health and moral character." That leaves a lot up to interpretation.


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## spunker88 (Apr 26, 2009)

Its too bad that people do this to themselves. Young girls looks up to these people and this is why anorexia is so popular.

She doesnt even look that hot to me. Add 100lbs and she would probably look great, but im an FA of course. I dont want to see a shrink wrapped skeleton, i want to see curves!


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 26, 2009)

GutsGirl said:


> Look, I don't really want to stir up trouble, but isn't that kind of unfair to say? And also kind of cruel? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, after all, and size acceptance is acceptance of any natural size, whether a person's body happens to be larger than average or thinner than average. It's fine to not be attracted to her sort of physique and to say honestly that it doesn't turn you on, but is saying she looks like a weird skeleton really necessary? What if she has no control over how big or small her body is? Your comment honestly struck me as reverse discrimination.
> 
> I also think it's unfair to assume that she has an eating disorder -- not that people here on Dims are doing that, because they aren't, but I think it is still unfair for anyone to assume that. We don't know her and we don't live with her. Only those who do could guess whether she has a problem with food. If she does, she needs help. If she doesn't and is just naturally very thin, then that's the way her body is.
> 
> ...



I totally agree. Like I said earlier, reverse sizeism isn't cool. Even if you don't find this girl attractive you don't have to imply that shes disgusting. Everyone reserves respect regardless of whether they're 108 pounds or 408 pounds.


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## GutsGirl (Apr 26, 2009)

spunker88 said:


> Its too bad that people do this to themselves. Young girls looks up to these people and this is why anorexia is so popular.
> 
> She doesnt even look that hot to me. Add 100lbs and she would probably look great, but im an FA of course. I dont want to see a shrink wrapped skeleton, i want to see curves!



So what if she doesn't look hot to you; she never asked to be. No one on this planet looks hot to everyone else. That's why different people are attracted to different things.

Maybe she doesn't want to weigh any more than what she does now.

And did you not read my post and the other posts after it? Why call her a skeleton?

Anorexia is a control issue. People do it to feel in control of themselves because sometimes the circumstances of their lives make them feel powerless. This does not only extend to weight or self-image issues, but can be caused by neglect, abuse, or sexual assault. 

Those with anorexia also have a lot of self-hate. Watch a video about the subject or go on pro-ana sites and you will see a heart-breaking amount of self-hatred. It's not just about weight or body image. It's about controlling oneself and hating oneself. Some people with anorexia also self-harm, which is another way of controlling and punishing.

In short, anorexia is NOT just about an average-sized girl seeing a very thin woman (such as this lady) and saying out of the blue, with no prior problems, "Oh, I want to be like her!" To say that it is a caricature of the disorder. It's an addictive behavior and has complex causes.

In closing, I kind of resent the assumption on your part that this woman should be hidden away like she is some sort of grotesque freak, simply because she MIGHT 'encourage' some hypothetical person to be anorexic, or because she is not sexually desirable to most of the men on here.


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## imfree (Apr 26, 2009)

"Naturally thin", now that's a good one! No one can be 
"naturally obese" because all fat people eat too much
and are morally deficient. All snark aside, what is
"naturally thin"? In nature, a short famine or a bout 
with a normally survivable disease could take a girl
this thin, right out. If her thinness really is natural,
could she survive in "nature"? Fat is part of hair and
fat also helps strengthen the immune system. Some
fat is actually required by the body. Very little of the
food we eat is even "natural", so that complicates my
question even more. Just how thin can a person be
and really still be "naturally thin"? Yes, the 
contestants' figure types and body weights really aren't
relevant to true beauty, :doh:but the thin ones just seem 
to win a lot more often.:bow:


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## Pearlover90000 (Apr 26, 2009)

Well said, Gutsgirl, and Thatgirl08, (a fellow NYer).

The fact is, this contestant is only 10 pounds lighter than a Victoria's Secret Model.

Discrimination is not good for anyone.

PL


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## Pearlover90000 (Apr 26, 2009)

this girl could absolutely be naturally thin, and you may not know this, but she comes from Macedonia, and they are very thin by nature, as other europeans and slavic, and Brazilians, etc.

ectomorph, is the term


PL 




imfree said:


> "Naturally thin", now that's a good one! No one can be
> "naturally obese" because all fat people eat too much
> and are morally deficient. All snark aside, what is
> "naturally thin"? In nature, a short famine or a bout
> ...


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## mossystate (Apr 26, 2009)

Pearlover90000 said:


> this girl could absolutely be naturally thin, and you may not know this, but she comes from Macedonia, and they are very thin by nature, as other europeans and slavic, and Brazilians, etc.
> ectomorph, is the term
> PL




Then why did your OP have so many exclamation points after you stated her weight? Seems you were looking for a ' omg gross ' reaction.


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## imfree (Apr 26, 2009)

Pearlover90000 said:


> this girl could absolutely be naturally thin, and you may not know this, but she comes from Macedonia, and they are very thin by nature, as other europeans and slavic, and Brazilians, etc.
> 
> ectomorph, is the term
> 
> ...



I looked and, yes, the Macedonian gals can be thin,
like this gal, pictured.


Hahaha!!!, Mossy raised a great point about the OP's
punctuation!:bow:


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## GutsGirl (Apr 26, 2009)

imfree said:


> "Naturally thin", now that's a good one! No one can be
> "naturally obese" because all fat people eat too much
> and are morally deficient. All snark aside, what is
> "naturally thin"? In nature, a short famine or a bout
> ...



Well, she could still be 'naturally thin' because that's just how her genes dictate that her body will burn or store fat, and apparently her ancestors survived long enough to pass on these genes to her. 

If you look at different isolated human populations as adapted in certain superficial physiological ways to the environments they're in, then, yeah, a body type like hers *might* not survive in certain situations, but it might do fine in others... and live long enough to reproduce. For example, a person of African descent has dark skin so that there is less skin damage due to the sun. People of European descent have much fairer skin because they need more sunlight. Blondes apparently came about due to a genetic mutation in the proto-European population which occurred many thousands of years ago, or so I have read. This new trait was apparently deemed desirable and so it survived to the present day.

Some populations tend to be tall and thin, such as certain African peoples like the Masai. So this girl could very well naturally be thin, as well as tall (5'11" is pretty tall for a woman).


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## imfree (Apr 26, 2009)

GutsGirl said:


> Well, she could still be 'naturally thin' because that's just how her genes dictate that her body will burn or store fat, and apparently her ancestors survived long enough to pass on these genes to her.
> 
> If you look at different isolated human populations as adapted in certain superficial physiological ways to the environments they're in, .....snipped.....



Come to think of it, a "naturally thin" person would
be perfectly adapted to a hot, humid climate.:bow:


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## Fallenangel2904 (Apr 26, 2009)

Well this is obviously a very loaded topic lol. I can see everyone's points on this, and I think this is an opinion issue. I definitly do agree that no one should be bashed because of their weight- whether they are over weight, or under weigh. This girl is very pretty, she may be too thin for my taste, but she is a pretty girl. Again this is an opinion issue. Personally my opinion is all people who participate in this contest should be with in the normal weight guidelines for their height. That will exclude contestants who are under weight, and over weight. Over weight contestants are already excluded from these things, I think it is only fair to exclude under weight as well. This is all just my opinion though.


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## Mathias (Apr 27, 2009)

imfree said:


> "Naturally thin", now that's a good one! No one can be
> "naturally obese" because all fat people eat too much
> and are morally deficient. All snark aside, what is
> "naturally thin"? In nature, a short famine or a bout
> ...



Some might say that I could be considered naturally thin. Because of my cerebral palsy, the muscles in my legs and part of my right arm are constantly bent. Because of this I burn calories. I maintain a weight of about 110lbs but no matter how much I eat I can't seem to gain weight. It makes me wish that weight gain pills were real. *Sigh*


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## Jon Blaze (Apr 27, 2009)

Health is not a look: It is a feeling that covers all facets of life.


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Apr 27, 2009)

GutsGirl said:


> Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, after all, and size acceptance is acceptance of any natural size, whether a person's body happens to be larger than average or thinner than average.


Here we go again....

We've been through this time and time again over the years. "Size acceptance" is NOT about accepting people of every size - it is about ending discrimination against people of size. It is synonymous with "fat acceptance".

If you don't bemieve me, look at what I found when I did a Google search on "size acceptance":

http://www.google.com/search?q="siz...t:*&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

**** preparing to get flamed ****


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## TraciJo67 (Apr 27, 2009)

I've had a few friends who were (are) as thin as this woman. Two are men, one is a woman. All of them are very self-conscious about their weight, and their inability to gain it. They've all tried various methods to gain weight, including those disgusting protein/weight gain shakes <shuddering @ the chalky memories; I drank them for the protein for a thankfully brief period>. I don't think that it's fair to assume that she has an eating disorder. She is placing herself in the public eye, and IMO, that means she knows full well that she's going to be judged based on her appearance. From most objective viewpoints, she's far too thin to be aesthetically pleasing -- in that kind of format, anyway. I'll eat my shoes if she wins the contest, or even comes close to it. Hell, I'll eat the Mossy's shoes.


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## Jon Blaze (Apr 27, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> Here we go again....
> 
> We've been through this time and time again over the years. "Size acceptance" is NOT about accepting people of every size - it is about ending discrimination against people of size. It is synonymous with "fat acceptance".
> 
> ...



No. Size Acceptance was a term coined by early Size Activists to be an all exclusive term. In fact, the term also technically implies height discrimination.

You'll get both these days depending on where you go. The meaning of the term has changed a lot, and Fat Acceptance is not an exclusive term either. Granted, it does imply a lean towards people of size, but it doesn't have a requirement among it's main purpose being to fight discrimination. So what you said is still off, and I've had this conversation in the fatosphere 9999 times. So if you don't believe me: Talk to them.


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 27, 2009)

Fallenangel2904 said:


> I'm sorry, but looking at that picture- she does not look healthy to me. I'm sure some people would look at pictures of a larger woman, and say the same thing, but we aren't exactly contestants in the Miss Universe pageant. She looks emaciated, and that is what is being projected to our youth who are watching this show. I think she is too thin to be in this pageant. At 5'11 and 108lbs, her BMI is 15.1- which makes her under weight (Anything under an 18 is under weight) Not that I pay all that much attention to the BMI scale, because hell I am way over weight- but like I said- I am not in the Miss Universe contest. I think all the contestants that participate in the pageant should fall within the 'normal weight' guidelines. If that means excluding over weight contents, so be it, but I believe that they should not allow someone who is under weight to participate. That is a negative projection to the world on what is healthy. JMO.



Agree 100%! 

ETA: Except for the part about looking unhealthy. I wouldnt' go that far but I believe that if fatties aren't allowed then the underweight shouldnt be either.


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## cinnamitch (Apr 27, 2009)

thatgirl08 said:


> This girl is absolutely gorgeous in my opinion, regardless of size. I do think she looks too small though. However, I don't think it's far to eliminate her from competing unless it's determined that shes this not naturally this small because there are some people who are just naturally thin. I also don't think it's fair to call her scary, weird, and bad for other peoples body image. Reverse sizeism isn't cool.



Amen.......


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 27, 2009)

thatgirl08 said:


> This girl is absolutely gorgeous in my opinion, regardless of size. I do think she looks too small though. However, I don't think it's far to eliminate her from competing unless it's determined that shes this not naturally this small because there are some people who are just naturally thin. I also don't think it's fair to call her scary, weird, and bad for other peoples body image. Reverse sizeism isn't cool.



Yes but how is that supposed to be determined? Do they follow her around and watch her for a week to scrutinize what she eats? What if at 430 pounds I want to get in the contest? Are they going to test me to see if I'm naturally this way? How are they going to do that? Do the others have to show that their weights are natural and not the result of drugs or surgery? Her weight even if its natural is considered unhealthy, same as mine is. I think it's perfectly reasonable for her and me to be discriminated against for that reason. If they're going to let her compete then I want in.


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## Tracyarts (Apr 27, 2009)

" In closing, I kind of resent the assumption on your part that this woman should be hidden away like she is some sort of grotesque freak, simply because she MIGHT 'encourage' some hypothetical person to be anorexic, or because she is not sexually desirable to most of the men on here. "

I agree. 

Many people consider women built like *me* to be grotesque freaks who should be hidden away too. We assume she is unhealthy because of her weight. How many people assume I am unhealthy because of my weight? We assume she has an eating disorder because of her weight. How many people assume I have an eating disorder because of my weight? Lots of people here find her sexually undesireable. How many people in the world find me sexually undesireable?

The way I see it, the only difference between me and her is the fact that we stand on opposite ends of the body size spectrum. 

That puts us both under scrutiny. 

And you know what? It's just as icky to me to see a very thin person's body criticized as to see a very fat person's body criticized. We're all people. And when you've been under scrutiny and been criticized, and had assumptions about your health, emotional and mental well being, and character made solely on what your body looks like, you tend to develop a sense of empathy for others in that position. 

I'm not a sizeist. I believe in acceptance and equal treatment for everybody; not just those people whose bodies look attractive to me or whose bodies look like mine.

Tracy


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 27, 2009)

LillyBBBW said:


> Yes but how is that supposed to be determined? Do they follow her around and watch her for a week to scrutinize what she eats? What if at 430 pounds I want to get in the contest? Are they going to test me to see if I'm naturally this way? How are they going to do that? Do the others have to show that their weights are natural and not the result of drugs or surgery? Her weight even if its natural is considered unhealthy, same as mine is. I think it's perfectly reasonable for her and me to be discriminated against for that reason. If they're going to let her compete then I want in.



I don't know. That's a very good question. Somehow doctors are able to determine when people have eating disorders. I don't know how they do it, or if its always accurate but I think they should at least examine the situation before automatically assuming shes anorexic just because shes thin. Also, hell, I think they should let fat people in the competitions. They don't, and that's bullshit, but that doesn't make it right to also discriminate against super thin girls. 

As far as whether or not size acceptance is just about people who are larger or not.. I don't know where the term came from or what it originally meant but to me it means being accepting of people regardless of size, including those who are thin, average, fat, whatever. I don't care if 'size acceptance' is technically just another name for 'fat acceptance'. That's not a good enough reason to be a jerk about people being skinny. It's incredibly hypocritical to say that everyone should accept me for being fat but then turn around and say this girl is disgusting or unattractive for being so thin.


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## Jon Blaze (Apr 27, 2009)

thatgirl08 said:


> I don't know. That's a very good question. Somehow doctors are able to determine when people have eating disorders. I don't know how they do it, or if its always accurate but I think they should at least examine the situation before automatically assuming shes anorexic just because shes thin. Also, hell, I think they should let fat people in the competitions. They don't, and that's bullshit, but that doesn't make it right to also discriminate against super thin girls.
> 
> As far as whether or not size acceptance is just about people who are larger or not.. I don't know where the term came from or what it originally meant but to me it means being accepting of people regardless of size, including those who are thin, average, fat, whatever. I don't care if 'size acceptance' is technically just another name for 'fat acceptance'. That's not a good enough reason to be a jerk about people being skinny. It's incredibly hypocritical to say that everyone should accept me for being fat but then turn around and say this girl is disgusting or unattractive for being so thin.



+1, minus the attractiveness part. Only because people have the choice, but there's no point in expressing if it's not one's thing though. Or at least not without tact.

So overall: Good on ya. I was going to reply with something similar.


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 27, 2009)

Jon Blaze said:


> +1, minus the attractiveness part. Only because people have the choice, but there's no point in expressing if it's not one's thing though. Or at least not without tact.
> 
> So overall: Good on ya. I was going to reply with something similar.



Yeah, that's very true. I rescind the attractiveness part.


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## GutsGirl (Apr 27, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> Here we go again....
> 
> We've been through this time and time again over the years. "Size acceptance" is NOT about accepting people of every size - it is about ending discrimination against people of size. It is synonymous with "fat acceptance".



Why can't it mean *both*?


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## protuberance (Apr 27, 2009)

Blech! She should simply be barred because she's atrocious.


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## Mathias (Apr 27, 2009)

protuberance said:


> Blech! She should simply be barred because she's atrocious.



Reverse sizism is just as bad as prejudice against fat people. Re read the thread.


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## protuberance (Apr 27, 2009)

Mathias said:


> Reverse sizism is just as bad as prejudice against fat people.



I don't care, she's gross.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Apr 27, 2009)

GutsGirl said:


> Why can't it mean *both*?



Because the organization that started fighting for fat rights was and is called NAAFA not NAASA. It's Fat acceptance not Size acceptance. I'm not interested in helping thin people, they don't need our help. Little people and tall people have their own groups. But this organization, started for fat people - that's not OK. I have to help thin people too? NFW!

The organization that I joined and wanted to work in has been co-opted by people who want us all to treat everyone equal, when we all know fat people are treated like second class citizens.

Fat acceptance and size acceptance are not the same. And it pisses me off that so many of the good people here think it's size acceptance.

Now there is a genuine size acceptance group out there. ISAA - International Size Acceptance Association, and the man who runs it Allen Steadham is running this group practically alone. 

But just as the 2 groups are separate so are the terms.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Apr 27, 2009)

Jon Blaze said:


> No. Size Acceptance was a term coined by early Size Activists to be an all exclusive term.




Really? Who and when?


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## Mathias (Apr 27, 2009)

protuberance said:


> I don't care, she's gross.



Glad to see you've learned SO much from this discussion.


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## Jon Blaze (Apr 27, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Really? Who and when?



Ask Red3 in the fatosphere. He knows the history down to a T.


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## Jon Blaze (Apr 27, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Because the organization that started fighting for fat rights was and is called NAAFA not NAASA. It's Fat acceptance not Size acceptance. I'm not interested in helping thin people, they don't need our help. Little people and tall people have their own groups. But this organization, started for fat people - that's not OK. I have to help thin people too? NFW!
> 
> The organization that I joined and wanted to work in has been co-opted by people who want us all to treat everyone equal, when we all know fat people are treated like second class citizens.
> 
> ...




They are different.

But that's discrimination. You don't have to help them, but the notion that hating them and being a part of the movement(s) at the same time is NOT TRUE.

"
The organization that I joined and wanted to work in has been co-opted by people who want us all to treat everyone equal, when we all know fat people are treated like second class citizens."

What? You want to run that by me again? How are all thin people treated fairly, when the very members of the board slander at them at times? A majority doesn't mean discrimination doesn't exist, or that doing so is just.

Fat Acceptance is internal and external. As an external issue: It's about fighting discrimination on the basis of it. As an internal issue, it's one's relationship with the fat on their body: Not someone that is or isn't fat (Although it is somewhat exclusive).


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## Cors (Apr 27, 2009)

Now that I think of it, there is no actual support group for people who are naturally very thin. Pro-ana groups do not count any more than "We are fat lazy food addicts who want to be 230482389lbs" groups. Hell, there aren't even any porn or pay sites dedicated to emaciated women when there are quite a number of BBW and SSBBW sites. 

Mind you, I am not talking about pleasantly slim and curvy like Jennifer Lopez and Kylie Minogue, but someone who is much thinner than the acceptable ideal like this beauty contestant. Trust me, men do not find her emaciated look attractive (they very much prefer someone like Keeley Hazell and no women except perhaps anorectics desire to copy her look either. Not that Keeley's size 4-6, busty, airbrushed ideal is any more realistic, but at least the tabloids do not go crazy speculating about when she is going to drop dead like they did with Mary Kate Olsen, Nicole Richie, Allegra Versace and Victoria Beckham. 

More likely than not, people gawk at this girl daily, shove sandwiches in her face and insist that she must be a dumb brainwashed anorexic vainpot. It would be pretty damn difficult to get clothes that fit too. She is clearly much smaller than a size 0, runway samples are a US 2 to 4, most size 0s and 00s available in stores run huge thanks to vanity sizing and she can't shop in the kids section like I often have to do. 

I'm not even that thin (5'5", 90-105lbs) and I already experience a fair bit of discrimination, especially in the US. I know many people who are naturally much smaller than I am (my close friends and sisters included), though I suppose there aren't that many of them compared to fat people. Living in a world where there is so much backlash about extreme thinness, they are extremely self-conscious and spend hours bulking up at the gym, downing awful weight gain shakes and even taking steroids in an attempt to look more acceptable. Not too different from the weight loss obsession sweeping through the world eh? Very thin people don't have it as easy as most people seem to think. I believe they do need some sort of support, but this might not be the right place. 

Dimensions is about celebrating the beauty of BBWs (and then BHMs) and as an FFA, I fully support that. We are all entitled to voice our preferences and opinions, but I just think that comments about how disgusting someone looks because of her weight/height/race/shape/modifications and the like have no place here.


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 28, 2009)

Cors said:


> Dimensions is about celebrating the beauty of BBWs (and then BHMs) and as an FFA, I fully support that. We are all entitled to voice our preferences and opinions, but I just think that comments about how disgusting someone looks because of her weight/height/race/shape/modifications and the like have no place here.



Exactly. If you're going to make comments about thin people, you're just as bad as all the fat haters, imo.


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## mossystate (Apr 28, 2009)

protuberance said:


> I didn't enter this discussion to learn anything. ...edited by moderator



Sounds less edgy tough guy when you finish with...whoopdy-doo.


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## furious styles (Apr 28, 2009)

hypocrisy is the greatest luxury.


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## GutsGirl (Apr 28, 2009)

protuberance said:


> I didn't enter this discussion to learn anything. ...edited by moderator



Well, thanks so much for making me want to slam my (or someone else's) head against a brick wall. You've elevated the tone of this discussion _so_ very much. 

Seriously, I think this is ridiculous. This woman should be allowed to compete in a beauty contest. So should the Miss England contestant who is a size 16. Hell, let *anyone* compete in any beauty or talent pageant if they want--just look at Susan Boyle. 

I don't particularly care, because it infringes upon _my_ view of myself not a whit. Barring either person of whatever size, thin or fat, from any beauty competition is ridiculous -- unless they _are_ in bad health. People are just judging the both of them based on appearance alone.

It's unlovely to see such behavior on this forum, and frankly, unwelcoming for a newcomer/non-BBW like myself, as it is to see people squawking on the Daily Mail about how the 'obese' size 16 English chick is leading young impressionable girls down the primrose path of thinking their bodies are fine and dandy the way they are.


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 28, 2009)

protuberance said:


> I didn't enter this discussion to learn anything. ...edited by moderator



Yeah, you've just added so much to this discussion. Thanks for posting.


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## Tracyarts (Apr 28, 2009)

" The organization that I joined and wanted to work in has been co-opted by people who want us all to treat everyone equal "

And treating everyone equal is a bad thing how?

I rarely ever type this on a message board, because it's been done to death. But somehow it just seems fitting right now...

Wow. Just wow.

Tracy


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## protuberance (Apr 28, 2009)

mossystate said:


> Sounds less edgy tough guy when you finish with...whoopdy-doo.



That would have been a cutting remark if I were attempting to be a tough guy. For a bunch of people preaching equality and understanding, you guys really are judgmental. Shouldn't my opinion be just as accepted as the Miss Universe contestant's body? I mean, considering the arguments for equality, an asshole should be as accepted as a sweetheart.


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 28, 2009)

thatgirl08 said:


> I don't know. That's a very good question. Somehow doctors are able to determine when people have eating disorders. I don't know how they do it, or if its always accurate but I think they should at least examine the situation before automatically assuming shes anorexic just because shes thin. Also, hell, I think they should let fat people in the competitions. They don't, and that's bullshit, but that doesn't make it right to also discriminate against super thin girls.
> 
> As far as whether or not size acceptance is just about people who are larger or not.. I don't know where the term came from or what it originally meant but to me it means being accepting of people regardless of size, including those who are thin, average, fat, whatever. I don't care if 'size acceptance' is technically just another name for 'fat acceptance'. That's not a good enough reason to be a jerk about people being skinny. It's incredibly hypocritical to say that everyone should accept me for being fat but then turn around and say this girl is disgusting or unattractive for being so thin.



Not necessarily. There are lots of people, most of people probably, who see me in a sleeveless shirt and think, "EEiww!" There isn't anything I can do about that. The goal of size acceptance isn't really to MAKE people like what they don't like. It's to challenge people to not judge a person's character based on their appearance which unfortunately has been done here. No one knows if she's anorexic, unhealthy or any of that stuff simply because of the way she looks. I am really uneasy with the idea that officials might want to examine her habits and judge her invasively in a way that none of the other contestants have to endure. I think that's unfair and descriminatory. 

This contest is a contest of ideals though and I'm for the idea that there should be standards. My selfish sense of fairness though makes me feel like here's another case where thinness has wiggle room and fat is simply out of the question. Why is she able to compete when fatties can't? The argument that fat is unhealthy and unattractive period is a generally accepted mindset but this woman doesn't get the same automatic dismissal? Either change the status quo to make it _all_ inclusive of kick this lady out.


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Because the organization that started fighting for fat rights was and is called NAAFA not NAASA. It's Fat acceptance not Size acceptance. I'm not interested in helping thin people, they don't need our help. Little people and tall people have their own groups. But this organization, started for fat people - that's not OK. I have to help thin people too? NFW!
> 
> The organization that I joined and wanted to work in has been co-opted by people who want us all to treat everyone equal, when we all know fat people are treated like second class citizens.
> 
> ...



A difference in terminology doesn't make it any less hypocritical.



LillyBBBW said:


> Not necessarily. There are lots of people, most of people probably, who see me in a sleeveless shirt and think, "EEiww!" There isn't anything I can do about that. The goal of size acceptance isn't really to MAKE people like what they don't like. It's to challenge people to not judge a person's character based on their appearance which unfortunately has been done here. No one knows if she's anorexic, unhealthy or any of that stuff simply because of the way she looks. I am really uneasy with the idea that officials might want to examine her habits and judge her invasively in a way that none of the other contestants have to endure. I think that's unfair and descriminatory.
> 
> This contest is a contest of ideals though and I'm for the idea that there should be standards. My selfish sense of fairness though makes me feel like here's another case where thinness has wiggle room and fat is simply out of the question. Why is she able to compete when fatties can't? The argument that fat is unhealthy and unattractive period is a generally accepted mindset but this woman doesn't get the same automatic dismissal? Either change the status quo to make it _all_ inclusive of kick this lady out.



I see what you're saying, and I agree about either being all inclusive or setting specific standards. I realize I said earlier in the thread they should just determine whether or not she's naturally this way or has an eating disorder but you're right, it's not fair for them to look at this girl in particular. They're singling her out. I mean, let's be realistic, supermodels/pagaent girls are famous for being super thin and having eating problems.. no, not every single girl does, but chances are, some of the girls participating in the Miss Universe competition did, yet they weren't singaled out by the competition, and that's not fair. If this girl has to face all this scrutiny about her eating/lifestyle than so should the other girls. 

I saw her being interviewed on GMA this morning. According to GMA, shes actually 117 pounds.. not that that makes a big difference or anything, but just thought I'd throw that out there. The only thing I was not sure about was her constant arguement of "they're judging me on my appearance!".. well, she did enter a beauty contest.. that should be expected. I still don't think thats a reason to question how she lives her life or put her under a microscope.. but she really shouldn't be that surprised considering the nature of the contest.


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Apr 28, 2009)

Tracyarts said:


> And treating everyone equal is a bad thing how?


There's nothing wrong with treating people equally, Tracy. However, there IS something wrong with people bastardizing the concept of "size acceptance" to make it something it was never intended to be.

Size acceptance does NOT refer to people of all sizes. It refers to working to end the discrimination fat people face every day of their lives. Period.


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## TraciJo67 (Apr 28, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> There's nothing wrong with treating people equally, Tracy. However, there IS something wrong with people bastardizing the concept of "size acceptance" to make it something it was never intended to be.
> 
> Size acceptance does NOT refer to people of all sizes. It refers to working to end the discrimination fat people face every day of their lives. Period.



Where's the wrong, Wayne? What is detrimental to acceptance of ANY size, and to any organization that claims this as a goal? I'm really trying to understand how a general desire to include acceptance for ALL people, no matter what the size, would harm the fat acceptance movement.


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Apr 28, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Where's the wrong, Wayne? What is detrimental to acceptance of ANY size, and to any organization that claims this as a goal? I'm really trying to understand how a general desire to include acceptance for ALL people, no matter what the size, would harm the fat acceptance movement.


Are skinny people discriminated against? No.

Are fat people discriminated against? Yes.

Do a Google search on "size acceptance" and you wil see that the generally-held use of the term is directed toward people of size - NOT people of all sizes. There IS a difference.


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## Mathias (Apr 28, 2009)

From Sizewise.com



> Size acceptance isn't about giving up or "letting yourself go." It's about demanding respect for yourself *at any size* and taking control of your life and your health. It's about not letting a biased society or your size keep you from living your life fully - right now - at any weight. ]



It might be generally directed toward fat people, but size acceptance doesn't exclude everyone.


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## Miss Vickie (Apr 28, 2009)

SocialbFly said:


> I agree, this site is for acceptance...i am sure they (the thinner people) could come here and say we don't look healthy and in fact, in many ways i am not...
> 
> she is just on the other end of the spectrum and unless you know her personally, judging her on her eating habits or anything else is unfair. Walk a mile in her shoes, then we can talk about it...
> 
> and yes, this is only my opinion, i speak for no one else here...



You can speak for me any time. Well said, Di'. 



protuberance said:


> Blech! She should simply be barred because she's atrocious.



Aw, well aren't you sweet? What makes her atrocious? The fact that she is skinny? And how would you feel if some "gentleman" on the net said that a loved one of yours was "gross" or "atrocious"?



Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Because the organization that started fighting for fat rights was and is called NAAFA not NAASA. It's Fat acceptance not Size acceptance. I'm not interested in helping thin people, they don't need our help. Little people and tall people have their own groups. But this organization, started for fat people - that's not OK. I have to help thin people too? NFW!
> 
> The organization that I joined and wanted to work in has been co-opted by people who want us all to treat everyone equal, when we all know fat people are treated like second class citizens.
> 
> ...



Sandie, I absolutely understand that this is your POV and yes, SA originally did mean fat people, I agree. However, who does it hurt to try to further the greater, more global belief that we shouldn't insult people based on size? How does it do anything but help women (yes, William, _women_ because as you no doubt noticed it was a woman whose pic was posted with an "omg grooooooossss" reaction -- not a man, never a man) to encourage them to be the size they naturally are, and to say it's not okay to judge them? To me it improves us as a culture to be aware of how women are judged on appearance and to say it's NOT okay to reduce a person's worth to their weight.

I guess I don't see the downside, because I think with this kind of awareness, everyone wins. Except the bigots, but "f" them anyway. 



Cors said:


> Dimensions is about celebrating the beauty of BBWs (and then BHMs) and as an FFA, I fully support that. We are all entitled to voice our preferences and opinions, but I just think that comments about how disgusting someone looks because of her weight/height/race/shape/modifications and the like have no place here.



I agree. I've been uncomfortable for some time with those kinds of comments, since I've been on the receiving end of them. I think that we, as people who've been the targets of such comments, should perhaps be more sensitive and empathetic and not target others in such a juvenile way.



protuberance said:


> I didn't enter this discussion to learn anything. ...edited by moderator



You're absolutely entitled to express it. And we're absolutely entitled to tell you what a lame brained, silly and juvenile comment it was.  As for being an asshole, that's your word, not mine.


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## TraciJo67 (Apr 28, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> Are skinny people discriminated against? No.
> 
> Are fat people discriminated against? Yes.
> 
> Do a Google search on "size acceptance" and you wil see that the generally-held use of the term is directed toward people of size - NOT people of all sizes. There IS a difference.



Interesting that you say skinny people are not discriminated against ... in this very thread. Have you seen the comments directed at the beauty pageant contestant?

Have you seen the comments that Cors made? Or that I made?

It's not always happy, happy fun times for the very thin either. I know that my friends -- particularly the male friends -- are excruciatingly self-conscious about their size, get a lot of ignorant "eat a freakin' sandwich" type remarks, and certainly feel that many of their own options have been limited by stooooooooopid people, too. When I met my husband, who is 5'11", he weighed 130 pounds. People called him "Ghandi" and threw beer bottles at him. He was painfully shy and uncomfortable about his body. 

Wayne, you really need to let go of the notion that there's anything particularly special or unique about size discrimination. Every single one of us has a sob story to tell -- he feels ostracized by his color, she feels alienated because she's a "woman of a certain (invisible) age", Junior wonders if his soccer coach benches him because he's homophobic, etc ... etc ... ET CETERA.

The bottom line is that limiting the size acceptance movement to include only acceptance of one size -- i.e., fat -- excludes many, many people who would otherwise be supporters. How can we ask for acceptance from a group of people we'd choose not to include?!?!? Sorry, Sheila ... you're not fat enough for us, and we don't care how alienated you feel. Come back when your BMI reaches 40. No, really -- don't call us. We'll call you


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## Jack Skellington (Apr 28, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> To me it improves us as a culture to be aware of how women are judged on appearance and to say it's NOT okay to reduce a person's worth to their weight.



This is a very good point. 

In my opinion, the media certainly seems to try to demean women any chance they get and is obsessed with tracking the most minor gains and loses of female celebrities. For example, just recently, the media went after Jessica Simpson (saying she was fat) and Tori Spelling (saying she was too thin). I think this re-enforces the no win situation women are in, in our culture. No matter how they look or what they weigh, it's never good enough and never right.


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## NoWayOut (Apr 28, 2009)

I think she looks ridiculously thin, but my opinion on the subject is quite irrelevant.


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Apr 28, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Wayne, you really need to let go of the notion that there's anything particularly special or unique about size discrimination. Every single one of us has a sob story to tell -- he feels ostracized by his color, she feels alienated because she's a "woman of a certain (invisible) age", Junior wonders if his soccer coach benches him because he's homophobic, etc ... etc ... ET CETERA.


 
I don't know about other countries, but here in the US there are laws that prohibit discrimination based on factors such as race, religion, age, sex, national origin, sexual orientation, and physical handicap. It is still legal to discriminate against a person because they're too fat. And the size acceptance movement was started to address and eliminate this discrimination. To redefine the term to refer to people of every size would only dilute the message.




TraciJo67 said:


> The bottom line is that limiting the size acceptance movement to include only acceptance of one size -- i.e., fat -- excludes many, many people who would otherwise be supporters.


 
Following that logic, gun control advocates should be welcomed into the NRA, straight Democrats into the Log Cabin Republicans, and African-Americans into the KKK. You don't gain acceptance by diluting your membership - you gain acceptance by staying on message and winning over people one at a time.

It makes no sense to me to artificially expand size acceptance in the way so many here are willing to do. And I'm speaking as someone who has been both underweight and overweight as an adult, so I've seen both sides.


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## Jezebel (Apr 28, 2009)

Her frame is so long and tiny almost to the point that it looks unrealistic but it's kind of interesting. Honestly with that frame I can see very much weight looking kind of odd on her. 

I just don't see _that_ much of a difference between her and the others though. *shrug*


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## Tracyarts (Apr 28, 2009)

" Are skinny people discriminated against? No. "

Do you truly believe that? Don't you have any close friends or family members who are really skinny? Because my circle of acquaintence is very diverse in every way and almost EVERYBODY I know has either been discriminated against or ridiculed and shamed over their body at some time. Be they too fat, too skinny, too tall, too short, too busty, too small busted, too muscular, too bottom heavy, too pale, too dark, too saggy, too whatever...

I have had friends whose body types are naturally very slim be denied jobs, be called names, had strangers comment on their food choices, felt pressured to gain weight to fit in or to look more attractive to potential mates, dressed to conceal their body because they were ashamed of it and didn't want to be stared at in public, not felt comfortable going swimming or to the beach, be told they could not participate in a sport or other group activity, have their physical and mental health questioned by people who assumed they had an eating disorder, not been able to find clothes that fit properly, been hassled by their doctors about their weight even though they were perfectly healthy and happy just as they were.

Fat people don't have a monopoly on being treated unfairly and unkindly because of their bodies. Everybody is a potential target because they are "too" something to somebody.

Tracy


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Because the organization that started fighting for fat rights was and is called NAAFA not NAASA. It's Fat acceptance not Size acceptance. I'm not interested in helping thin people, they don't need our help. Little people and tall people have their own groups. But this organization, started for fat people - that's not OK. I have to help thin people too? NFW!
> 
> The organization that I joined and wanted to work in has been co-opted by people who want us all to treat everyone equal, when we all know fat people are treated like second class citizens.
> 
> ...



Here's the thing, that organization called NAAFA, doesn't care about ALL fat people. I have on two occasions been told that I wasn't fat enough, how shitty is that?

In my experience NAAFA doesn't care about all fat people, only the supersized. So no, they aren't about size acceptance. In my opinion though, size acceptance should be about accepting yourself, loving yourself, and not being disrepectful to people based on their size, whether they are 800 pounds or 100 pounds.

Why should we fat people get to bitch and moan about not being taken seriously because we are fat, but then turn around and do the same thing to skinny people that we fighting against? Doesn't make sense.


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 28, 2009)

The thing is you just don't see a lot of skinny people in size acceptance unless they are FAs or former fatties. This is either because they:


don't feel the need for a social movement to be accepted
don't identify with or condone morbid obesity
don't feel welcomed in
all of the above
If thin people were on their knees crying at the door and begging to be a part of us or at least making an effort to begin their own movement I could see the need for all this hair splitting but I don't see their issues being anywhere near the scope of what fat people have to endure. They won't lie neglected to die in a hopsital for days without care because of their weight. They won't be denied housing or employment. They won't be chastised for wearing sleeveless tops at work. They can fly on a plane, use the toilet, shop for gorceries and order a meal at a restaurant without being stared at. The amount of public ridicule they receive lying on a beach in a bikini or ANYWHERE isn't even near the scope. Yes I sympathize with the stuff someone extremely thin has to put up with but it is not the same. Comparing the two is condescending in my view.


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 28, 2009)

LillyBBBW said:


> Comparing the two is condescending in my view.



But making fun of, belittling, or just assuming to know the status of the health just based on how they look is just as wrong as those people that do it to fat people. 

Not saying that you think its right, but it feels to me like a lot of people around here consider it ok because after all fat people are made fun of or get held back all the time. Sort of a what's good for the goose is good for the gander type attitude, when its really just bad for both of them.


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 28, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> But making fun of, belittling, or just assuming to know the status of the health just based on how they look is just as wrong as those people that do it to fat people.
> 
> Not saying that you think its right, but it feels to me like a lot of people around here consider it ok because after all fat people are made fun of or get held back all the time. Sort of a what's good for the goose is good for the gander type attitude, when its really just bad for both of them.



Agreed. :bow:


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Apr 28, 2009)

LillyBBBW said:


> The thing is you just don't see a lot of skinny people in size acceptance unless they are FAs or former fatties. This is either because they:
> 
> don't feel the need for a social movement to be accepted
> don't identify with or condone morbid obesity
> ...


If the system would let me rep you, Lilly, I would.


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## Miss Vickie (Apr 28, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> But making fun of, belittling, or just assuming to know the status of the health just based on how they look is just as wrong as those people that do it to fat people.
> 
> Not saying that you think its right, but it feels to me like a lot of people around here consider it ok because after all fat people are made fun of or get held back all the time. Sort of a what's good for the goose is good for the gander type attitude, when its really just bad for both of them.



Yep. I agree. And like I said, it speaks to the larger issue (and yes, this is the feminist in me rearing her beautiful and righteous head) of how women are treated in our culture. It pisses me off to no end how it's considered okay to judge a woman based on either the size of her ass, whether she has wrinkles, or how she dresses. If you looked at any mainstream magazine, the huge preponderance of them are packed with articles about what this star is dressing, wearing or eating. No wonder women have such skewed body images. No wonder we spend so much on dieting. No wonder little girls start dieting in grade school. No wonder we feel such shame when we don't fit into what our cultures says is attractive (and by definition worthy of existence).

Where is the message that a woman's worth is based on her character, her heart and her ideas? Where is the source of pride in what we accomplish, not what we look like? I mean, even Michelle Obama's value has been co-opted into being a "fashionista". It's all about what she wears, what designers she's supporting. Uhm, hello, she's a brilliant woman with a huge heart. Where's the discussion about THAT???

THIS is why threads about that pageant contestant piss me off. Yes, you could argue that because she's put herself in the limelight to be judged on her looks she "deserves" this reaction. But what about the millions of other women who just want to live their lives who are deemed "too [whatever]" by the asshats in their neighborhood, their family, their job? They didn't ask for it and yet they pay the same price, because as a culture we are so damn fixated on looks.

/rant


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## TraciJo67 (Apr 28, 2009)

OK, agreed. But this discussion didn't start with a call for fat acceptance. It evolved from some rather demeaning and insulting remarks made about a very thin woman, along with a lot of misplaced assumptions about her health and/or the possibility of an eating disorder. Twenty years ago, people would have (and did) assumed the same thing about my husband. He certainly didn't feel particularly accepted when ridiculed about how extremely thin he was. He had a LOT of difficulty finding clothes to fit him, assumptions were (erroneously) made about his health and fitness for sports activities, and he certainly wouldn't have been caught dead in public wearing a wife-beater because someone would surely have told him to eat a freakin' sandwich already (and did, no matter how much he tried to hide himself in baggy clothing). I'm just not sure how his experience was any different than the ostracism faced by fat people, aside from the fact that yes, he could fit into an airplane seat. Ignorant people are just as afraid of the emaciated as they are the fat. As far as access to healthcare, I've seen comments made here, by people with eating disorders, about how callous medical professionals can be. The thing is, though: It shouldn't be a 'comparison' between experiences. Common human decency should prevail. It's just as bad to ridicule a thin beauty queen contestant as it is to poke fun of cankles, IMO. In either event, it denotes a distinct lack of class in the person doing the ridiculing. 



LillyBBBW said:


> The thing is you just don't see a lot of skinny people in size acceptance unless they are FAs or former fatties. This is either because they:
> 
> 
> don't feel the need for a social movement to be accepted
> ...


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Apr 28, 2009)

Tracyarts said:


> " Are skinny people discriminated against? No. "
> 
> Do you truly believe that? Don't you have any close friends or family members who are really skinny? Because my circle of acquaintence is very diverse in every way and almost EVERYBODY I know has either been discriminated against or ridiculed and shamed over their body at some time. Be they too fat, too skinny, too tall, too short, too busty, too small busted, too muscular, too bottom heavy, too pale, too dark, too saggy, too whatever...
> 
> ...


When I graduated from high school, Tracy, I was the same height I am today - 6 foot even - and 112 pounds. I had always been thin, but lost more weight after I ruptured my spleen and had it removed. The comment I had directed at me back then were NOTHING compared to what I've heard and seen directed at all the BBWs that have ben part of my life since 1972 - including my wife Sandie.

Look at the top of this page. What does it say? "Dimensions - Where Big Is Beautiful". It doesn't say "Where People of All Sizes Are Beautiful", because that notion is contrary to the core concept of Size Acceptance.


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## Miss Vickie (Apr 28, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> Look at the top of this page. What does it say? "Dimensions - Where Big Is Beautiful". It doesn't say "Where People of All Sizes Are Beautiful", because that notion is contrary to the core concept of Size Acceptance.



So basically, the natural corollary to that is if big is beautiful, everything else is... what? Ugly? And if you're treated unfairly because you're too thin that's just too damn bad and we don't give a rat's ass about you? So should black people not care about other minorities being oppressed because they have it worse?

Why can't big be beautiful and thinner be okay, too, even if it's not your preference? If that woman was your daughter, laughed and sneered at because of her size, how would you feel about the things being said about her?

To me it's a larger issue, which is how we treat *all* women. I think all women deserve to be treated with respect and not castigated for how they look -- and that goes for men, too. I truly believe that if we stop judging women on how they look, it'll go better for fat women too. Why? Because the same skewed belief system that a woman is only as worthwhile as the size of her ass harms fat women, too, and in fact you could argue that it harms fat women even more. 

Why not address the problem at the source, the valuing of women based on their size?


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## mossystate (Apr 28, 2009)

Mocking thin women does not make one a better or more desireable FA.


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 28, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> OK, agreed. But this discussion didn't start with a call for fat acceptance. It evolved from some rather demeaning and insulting remarks made about a very thin woman, along with a lot of misplaced assumptions about her health and/or the possibility of an eating disorder. Twenty years ago, people would have (and did) assumed the same thing about my husband. He certainly didn't feel particularly accepted when ridiculed about how extremely thin he was. He had a LOT of difficulty finding clothes to fit him, assumptions were (erroneously) made about his health and fitness for sports activities, and he certainly wouldn't have been caught dead in public wearing a wife-beater because someone would surely have told him to eat a freakin' sandwich already (and did, no matter how much he tried to hide himself in baggy clothing). I'm just not sure how his experience was any different than the ostracism faced by fat people, aside from the fact that yes, he could fit into an airplane seat. Ignorant people are just as afraid of the emaciated as they are the fat. As far as access to healthcare, I've seen comments made here, by people with eating disorders, about how callous medical professionals can be. The thing is, though: It shouldn't be a 'comparison' between experiences. Common human decency should prevail. It's just as bad to ridicule a thin beauty queen contestant as it is to poke fun of cankles, IMO. In either event, it denotes a distinct lack of class in the person doing the ridiculing.



I agree with everything you've said. I will say however that this is a sick sad world we live in. People make fun of other people. Everybody has a sob story of being made uncomfortable or being called names. Is it acceptable? No. I'm haunted by things I've said while in my teens to get a laugh. There are entire news segments on television talking about those pesky fat people again with headless torsos moving to and fro. Something has *got* to be done about us. We're a drain on the ozone layer and we make babies cry. It's mainstream and much more virulent than it is for my extremely thin brother whom by the way also thinks I need to get control of my weight. His weight problem is not his fault though. It's a different level altogether just because it is. My pointing all this out isn't an attempt to justyfy thin bashing or say its ok. It's a mere technical tangent on my part I guess.


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## Tooz (Apr 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I'm not interested in helping thin people, they don't need our help.



How hateful.


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## Tracyarts (Apr 28, 2009)

" Look at the top of this page. What does it say? "Dimensions - Where Big Is Beautiful". It doesn't say "Where People of All Sizes Are Beautiful", because that notion is contrary to the core concept of Size Acceptance. "

Where does this leave the thin men and women who are admirers, lovers, and partners of fat people? Are they just ugly fucks who are tolerated because of the body type they prefer or because of the body type their current partner happens to have? 

If so, then how generous of us to allow them in our presence where they can bask in the glory of our beauty. 


Tracy


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 28, 2009)

mossystate said:


> Mocking thin women does not make one a better or more desireable FA.




Exactly. As a matter of fact I wouldn't date a man that I knew made fun of any woman based on her looks. 

If he's capable and comfortable with doing it to one person, he's capable of doing it to me.


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## Mathias (Apr 28, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> I don't know about other countries, but here in the US there are laws that prohibit discrimination based on factors such as race, religion, age, sex, national origin, sexual orientation, and physical handicap. It is still legal to discriminate against a person because they're too fat. And the size acceptance movement was started to address and eliminate this discrimination. To redefine the term to refer to people of every size would only dilute the message.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It makes no sense to me how you can claim to be accepting and insinuate that others don't belong in the movement because their thin. Its been said to death, but it isn't different than a thin person hating fat people.


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## protuberance (Apr 28, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> Aw, well aren't you sweet? What makes her atrocious? The fact that she is skinny? And how would you feel if some "gentleman" on the net said that a loved one of yours was "gross" or "atrocious"?



What makes her atrocious is that she looks like she's just gotten out of a concentration camp. I don't mind skinny, but it's gross to me when someone is this skinny. As for someone else calling a loved one of mine, "atrocious," I wouldn't give a fuck. Besides, she's putting herself out there for criticism, because she wants to be in the Miss Universe pageant. If one were too weak to take criticism, then one wouldn't enter a pageant that is watched around the world.


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## TraciJo67 (Apr 28, 2009)

protuberance said:


> What makes her atrocious is that she looks like she's just gotten out of a concentration camp. I don't mind skinny, but it's gross to me when someone is this skinny. As for someone else calling a loved one of mine, "atrocious," I wouldn't give a fuck. Besides, she's putting herself out there for criticism, because she wants to be in the Miss Universe pageant. If one were too weak to take criticism, then one wouldn't enter a pageant that is watched around the world.



That insensitivity thing? How's that workin' out for ya? 

(Yes, I'm channeling Dr Phil )


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## protuberance (Apr 28, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> That insensitivity thing? How's that workin' out for ya?
> 
> (Yes, I'm channeling Dr Phil )



It's workin' out just fine.


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## Jon Blaze (Apr 28, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> When I graduated from high school, Tracy, I was the same height I am today - 6 foot even - and 112 pounds. I had always been thin, but lost more weight after I ruptured my spleen and had it removed. The comment I had directed at me back then were NOTHING compared to what I've heard and seen directed at all the BBWs that have ben part of my life since 1972 - including my wife Sandie.
> 
> Look at the top of this page. What does it say? "Dimensions - Where Big Is Beautiful". It doesn't say "Where People of All Sizes Are Beautiful", because that notion is contrary to the core concept of Size Acceptance.



Dimensions is not a site about Size or Fat Acceptance, and you said it yourself that they are different. Admiration of for all sizes is ADMIRATION OF ALL SIZES. Size and Fat Acceptance is different, huh? Then why are you mixing fat admiration as if they are related? Last I checked, they aren't, which is why NAAFA has a policy on Fat Admirers instead of being the national assocation to advance fat admiration. :bow:

I don't get where you guys are getting the notion that even if the core movements were not meant for thin people that it makes it ok to slander them (Or that they aren't railed on when you've just done so). I'd love for you to ask the head of NAAFA, the ISAA, and all of us at the fatosphere if that's ok. Very few will say yes. I can guarantee you that.


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## Jon Blaze (Apr 28, 2009)

protuberance said:


> What makes her atrocious is that she looks like she's just gotten out of a concentration camp. I don't mind skinny, but it's gross to me when someone is this skinny. As for someone else calling a loved one of mine, "atrocious," I wouldn't give a fuck. Besides, she's putting herself out there for criticism, because she wants to be in the Miss Universe pageant. If one were too weak to take criticism, then one wouldn't enter a pageant that is watched around the world.



That doesn't make your comments valid. There's a difference between expressing your opinion, and being an asshole. I can accept the former, but I or anyone else don't have to accept the latter.


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## Miss Vickie (Apr 28, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> That insensitivity thing? How's that workin' out for ya?
> 
> (Yes, I'm channeling Dr Phil )



Don't feed the... erm... you know.


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## protuberance (Apr 28, 2009)

Jon Blaze said:


> That doesn't make your comments valid. There's a difference between expressing your opinion, and being an asshole. I can accept the former, but I or anyone else don't have to accept the latter.



I never asked you to accept it. The only people who should accept it are those preaching equality, understanding and acceptance, because if they don't, their silly posts about those things are meaningless. Blech, people are so sensitive.


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## imfree (Apr 28, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> Exactly. As a matter of fact I wouldn't date a man that I knew made fun of any woman based on her looks.
> 
> If he's capable and comfortable with doing it to one person, he's capable of doing it to me.




Exactly, 'cause when you get right down to it, 
abuse is abuse, and size is just an excuse.:bow:


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## Miss Vickie (Apr 28, 2009)

protuberance said:


> Blech, people are so sensitive.



Yes. Yes, they are. Some people are sensitive to the pain of others. Imagine that.


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## protuberance (Apr 28, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> Yes. Yes, they are. Some people are sensitive to the pain of others. Imagine that.



The pain of others? Who, skinny people? Aw, I feel so bad for them, with their being allowed into beauty pageants, getting paid millions of dollars to wear beautiful clothes that are only made in their sizes, being the standard of beauty and generally being accepted by society. Yeah, my heart really goes out to them.


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 28, 2009)

protuberance said:


> The pain of others? Who, skinny people? Aw, I feel so bad for them, with their being allowed into beauty pageants, getting paid millions of dollars to wear beautiful clothes that are only made in their sizes, being the standard of beauty and generally being accepted by society. Yeah, my heart really goes out to them.




Wow, who pissed in your cheerios this morning?

Why are skinny people less deserving of your empathy? Just because many in society find them to be more attractive than fat people doesn't mean that they aren't hurt when negative things are said. Doesn't mean that when someone looks at a skinny person and automatically assumes they are shoving their finger down their throat after every meal, that it doesn't make them feel less than. 

Skinny people do face discrimination and bias in the workplace, out and about in every day life, from family and friends. It may not be to the same extent as fat people but its there. It's still painful and it sickens me that here in this site about "size acceptance" (fat acceptance for some) we have people who think its ok to do to thin people what we rage about happening to fat people.

ETA: Maybe I'm being harpy but my 14 year old son has recently asked me for weight gain powder stuff because he's getting picked on for being too skinny. He's 14! Right in the years where positive self esteem is developing the most, is most important and he's full of this self doubt because of the size and shape of his body (granted that's going to happen anyway). It sucked when I was 14 and fat and it pisses me off that we seem to be breeding an idea here where its ok to be shitty to skinny people because other people have been shitty to us as fat people.


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## Mathias (Apr 28, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> Wow, who pissed in your cheerios this morning?
> 
> Why are skinny people less deserving of your empathy? Just because many in society find them to be more attractive than fat people doesn't mean that they aren't hurt when negative things are said. Doesn't mean that when someone looks at a skinny person and automatically assumes they are shoving their finger down their throat after every meal, that it doesn't make me feel less than.
> 
> Skinny people do face discrimination and bias in the workplace, out and about in every day life, from family and friends. It may not be to the same extent as fat people but its there. It's still painful and it sickens me that here in this site about "size acceptance" (fat acceptance for some) we have people who think its ok to do to thin people what we rage about happening to fat people.



I agree. You said this better than I ever could.


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## Jon Blaze (Apr 28, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> Wow, who pissed in your cheerios this morning?
> 
> Why are skinny people less deserving of your empathy? Just because many in society find them to be more attractive than fat people doesn't mean that they aren't hurt when negative things are said. Doesn't mean that when someone looks at a skinny person and automatically assumes they are shoving their finger down their throat after every meal, that it doesn't make them feel less than.
> 
> ...





:bow::bow::bow::bow::bow:


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## SocialbFly (Apr 28, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> You can speak for me any time. Well said, Di'.



and you can speak for me, you did so elloquently and with a true vision...well said and true in my book.

I am so tired of people being judged...walk a mile in her high heels then judge her...i for one, couldn't, and won't.


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## SocialbFly (Apr 28, 2009)

NoWayOut said:


> I think she looks ridiculously thin, but my opinion on the subject is quite irrelevant.



and that is your opinion, and you are entitled to it, just as some find me ridiculously fat...and that is their opinion...just don't judge me on my size and make me wanting as a person. (same for her)


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## SocialbFly (Apr 28, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> Yes. Yes, they are. Some people are sensitive to the pain of others. Imagine that.



I wish i could rep you again...

you know, when i saw the woman, i thought wow, she is bloody skinny, then ithought, but wow, how pretty is she...i had a friend who was a Miss Missouri, and i know what Teri went through to be that person, and what it did to her now (her weight is an issue) but she was beautiful then, she is beautiful now, imagine that...and she did a lot of wonderful things on behalf of kids while she was in that year...

you may not find her appealing, but to judge her strictly on appearance is no worse than us being judged for the same...


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Apr 28, 2009)

Jon Blaze said:


> I don't get where you guys are getting the notion that even if the core movements were not meant for thin people that it makes it ok to slander them (Or that they aren't railed on when you've just done so). I'd love for you to ask the head of NAAFA, the ISAA, and all of us at the fatosphere if that's ok. Very few will say yes. I can guarantee you that.



Do I think people agree with me? Yup, I've talked to them face to face. Who is slandering anyone???? 

I don't hate thin people. Some of my best friends are thin. But size acceptance and fat acceptance are 2 diferent things. Maybe you should ask Bill Fabrey about that - seeing as he started the whole thing.


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 28, 2009)

Okay seriously.. terms aside.. it's still shitty to call someone disgusting for being a certain size. I don't care what name you put on it, it's still hypocrisy.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Apr 28, 2009)

protuberance said:


> What makes her atrocious is that she looks like she's just gotten out of a concentration camp. I don't mind skinny, but it's gross to me when someone is this skinny. As for someone else calling a loved one of mine, "atrocious," I wouldn't give a fuck. Besides, she's putting herself out there for criticism, because she wants to be in the Miss Universe pageant. If one were too weak to take criticism, then one wouldn't enter a pageant that is watched around the world.



I gotta agree with you dude. But remember skinny = good (no matter how skinny it is) and fat = bad. Anorexics will tell you they are naturally thin too.


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I gotta agree with you dude. But remember skinny = good (no matter how skinny it is) and fat = bad. Anorexics will tell you they are naturally thin too.



Help me to understand - why can't you get the whole 'everyone is equal' thing through your head?


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Apr 28, 2009)

And how come this much anger isn't directed at beauty pageants because there isn't one single fucking fat woman in any pageant?? Yeah, poor skinny girls, they have it so tough.


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> And how come this much anger isn't directed at beauty pageants because there isn't one single fucking fat woman in any pageant?? Yeah, poor skinny girls, they have it so tough.



I think it's bullshit fat girls can't be in pageants but that doesn't mean we should victimize the thin girls that are in them. That doesn't get us anywhere. Didn't your mother ever tell you two wrongs don't make a right? This is about how absolutely ridiculously hypocritical it is to say someone needs to accept you for being fat and then turn around and say they're disgusting or unworthy of your time because they're thin. Size acceptance.. fat acceptance.. whatever.. how about just good old fashioned being a nice person?


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## TraciJo67 (Apr 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> And how come this much anger isn't directed at beauty pageants because there isn't one single fucking fat woman in any pageant?? Yeah, poor skinny girls, they have it so tough.



Who is angry, Sandie? 

I'm not at all upset with anyone in this thread. I do think that several participants have been extremely rude and ill-mannered, but .. well. Oh noes, someone on the interwebz is wrong <cliched sigh>.


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## ashmamma84 (Apr 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> And how come this much anger isn't directed at beauty pageants because there isn't one single fucking fat woman in any pageant?? Yeah, poor skinny girls, they have it so tough.



Uh, actually fat girls _are_ in pageants. They have had their own for a couple years now. It's not Miss America, but Monique did start Fat Chance; some of the contestants are pretty well known in the plus modeling/fashion circuit.

...just a fyi from a resident fashionista

*goes back to the fashion board*


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## Mathias (Apr 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> And how come this much anger isn't directed at beauty pageants because there isn't one single fucking fat woman in any pageant?? Yeah, poor skinny girls, they have it so tough.



Why can't you see that everyone being treated equal isn't a bad thing? You're bringing up negativity when there wasn't any to begin with.


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## moniquessbbw (Apr 28, 2009)

She was on the radio today saying I shouldnt be discriminated against because of my weight LOL it just made me laugh. I said welcome to my world how do you like it..


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## GutsGirl (Apr 28, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> I don't know about other countries, but here in the US there are laws that prohibit discrimination based on factors such as race, religion, age, sex, national origin, sexual orientation, and physical handicap. It is still legal to discriminate against a person because they're too fat. And the size acceptance movement was started to address and eliminate this discrimination. To redefine the term to refer to people of every size would only dilute the message.
> 
> Following that logic, gun control advocates should be welcomed into the NRA, straight Democrats into the Log Cabin Republicans, and African-Americans into the KKK. You don't gain acceptance by diluting your membership - you gain acceptance by staying on message and winning over people one at a time.
> 
> It makes no sense to me to artificially expand size acceptance in the way so many here are willing to do.



What about the International Size Acceptance's website itself? http://www.size-acceptance.org/

"So why all the attention to what ISAA has to say? ISAA takes a no-nonsense, professional approach to helping save lives through educating the public about health and wellness for people of all sizes as well as the realities of weight-based discrimination and who gets hurt by it (everyone)."

Either "all sizes" MEANS "*all* sizes", or it doesn't, and either weight discrimination hurts everyone (particularly the very thin and the very fat) or it doesn't. I don't see a qualifier there on how big someone needs to be, or what their BMI needs to be....

If "size acceptance" only means acceptance of bigger people, isn't it basically the same term as "fat acceptance"? Why use two terms for the same thing, then?


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## Fyreflyintheskye (Apr 28, 2009)

hyde park reborn

and so it begins ...


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## GutsGirl (Apr 28, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> Yep. I agree. And like I said, it speaks to the larger issue (and yes, this is the feminist in me rearing her beautiful and righteous head) of how women are treated in our culture. It pisses me off to no end how it's considered okay to judge a woman based on either the size of her ass, whether she has wrinkles, or how she dresses. If you looked at any mainstream magazine, the huge preponderance of them are packed with articles about what this star is dressing, wearing or eating. No wonder women have such skewed body images. No wonder we spend so much on dieting. No wonder little girls start dieting in grade school. No wonder we feel such shame when we don't fit into what our cultures says is attractive (and by definition worthy of existence).
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



THIS, totally. If I know how to rep you, I would. 

I know myself that somewhere in my early teens I got the message that my breasts were not beautiful, that in fact they were not sexy and not erotic. Was this ever told to me directly? No. But I still felt it. I still compared myself to others. Perhaps part of that is just simply part of being human, but I do think that that natural tendency can be agitated and fed by certain things.

You are totally, totally right when you say that this is what the media portrays, and not just the media that we pay attention to, either. A woman or girl may pass a dozen tabloids by at the supermarket that scream with headlines about who has the best/worst butt or belly, or how Celebrity X got her body back after giving birth (i.e., dropped the pregnancy weight), or how to lose X number of pounds in X number of days, but those messages are still there and they are still absorbed on some level. 

Not to mention that when I type in "love handles" on Google, what comes up are tons of links that label love handles as ugly and unsightly, and marshal all the energy of the Internet to finding ways to lose them. Now, I, personally, love my love handles. I love the way my hips look; I find them incredibly sexy, and I would be very sad if, for whatever reason, I _did_ lose them. But the message of the culture is, "Lose it, because it is ugly. Your breasts are not sexy if they are small, but if they're large and drooping (like _real_ large breasts do, not unreal large ones), then they are ugly, too. Stretch marks are ugly. Cellulite is ugly. Face it, toots, YOU'RE ugly." 


**(I apologize if the following comments take this conversation into a NWS area, but I feel I have to say this because this, to me, is the height of insanity against a woman and a mentally and emotionally healthy view of a female body.)**


Now women are actually getting labiaplasty done because they think their vulvae are ugly, and they feel pressured by a sense of shame and unworthiness and horror at the way their own bodies have developed, so they pay out the... nose... to have a surgeon cut off and reshape their labia. 

http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/2067/context/archive



> "The most common reason we hear is that they have had a negative comment made by a male sexual partner. Women are made to feel that they are not perfect the way they are and often it's the partner that sets this off," Loftus said.
> 
> "My feeling is that women who aren't sex workers are getting this kind of thing because there's pressure from someone who's telling them they're not perfect," Young said. 'There's often pressure from a man who tells them they need it," adding "I assume that their standards for labial beauty were set by a combination of the porn industry, sex-oriented magazines and the Internet."



See? It's just utterly, utterly insane.


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Apr 28, 2009)

mossystate said:


> Mocking thin women does not make one a better or more desireable FA.


I'm not mocking thin women, mossy. I'm simply stating the obvious - that sites like this are NOT the place to advocate for thin people. period.


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## Mathias (Apr 28, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> I'm not mocking thin women, mossy. I'm simply stating the obvious - that sites like this are NOT the place to advocate for thin people. period.



Not even Fa's who are thin too.


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## furious styles (Apr 29, 2009)

Mathias said:


> Not even Fa's who are thin too.



yeah. it's cool to hit on them though.


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## mossystate (Apr 29, 2009)

Mathias said:


> Not even Fa's who are thin too.



I was just about to post that.  There is a whole forum to help out those boys who are thin ...dare I say...advocate for them.


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## ZosofanCMR (Apr 29, 2009)

This is repulsive even by society's standards, but somehow more accepted than a size 14 getting in, how sick is that?


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 29, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> And how come this much anger isn't directed at beauty pageants because there isn't one single fucking fat woman in any pageant?? Yeah, poor skinny girls, they have it so tough.



I think all beauty pagents are crap. We should judge people based on the kind of person they are, how they treat other people. Not how fat or skinny they are. 

I'm angry at all the hypocritial bullshit that's flying around in this thread.


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 29, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> I'm not mocking thin women, mossy. I'm simply stating the obvious - that sites like this are NOT the place to advocate for thin people. period.




So its a place to degrade them and call them ugly or gross?


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 29, 2009)

ZosofanCMR said:


> This is repulsive even by society's standards, but somehow more accepted than a size 14 getting in, how sick is that?



I'd wager that to some people its just about as sick as you finding fat women attractive.


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## ZosofanCMR (Apr 29, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> I'd wager that to some people its just about as sick as you finding fat women attractive.



I totally agree with you on that, but besides the point of me finding her to be unattractive, I think it's messed up that a person like that who is obviously bordering on the kekectic is allowed in a "beauty" competition, when a healthy plus sized, not even just "fat" but larger girl is automatically disqualified by long held beliefs and standards in these sort of competitions


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## elle camino (Apr 29, 2009)

oh sweet a thread where we impersonate every jerk who's ever made fun of our/our partner's weight.


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## protuberance (Apr 29, 2009)

thatgirl08 said:


> Help me to understand - why can't you get the whole 'everyone is equal' thing through your head?



Here's the thing; we don't live in a fantasy world and everyone is not equal.


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## Santaclear (Apr 29, 2009)

OK, so maybe the pageant ought to be named *Miss Skinny Universe*. So what?


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## Jon Blaze (Apr 29, 2009)

protuberance said:


> Here's the thing; we don't live in a fantasy world and everyone is not equal.



If everyone weren't equal, then it goes from their existence to how they're treated. If you expect me to treat you with respect, then I expect you to do the same for me. It's not a one way street.


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## Jon Blaze (Apr 29, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Do I think people agree with me? Yup, I've talked to them face to face. Who is slandering anyone????
> 
> I don't hate thin people. Some of my best friends are thin. But size acceptance and fat acceptance are 2 diferent things. Maybe you should ask Bill Fabrey about that - seeing as he started the whole thing.



Are you looking at the post? Calling someone too thin for your own personal views is fine, but to call them sickly, disgusting on top of that is wrong no matter how you slice it.

And I don't believe I said they were the same. I said Fat Acceptance is a non exclusive, but more exclusive term than Size Acceptance, which is different because it is all inclusive.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Apr 29, 2009)

well, if anyone was wondering why NAAFA has been treading water since it's inception, just read this thread and everything will begin to make sense.



repulsive, disgusting, gross. yeah, I see a lot of shit in this thread that could be described as that and none of it has anything to do with that girl.


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## Miss Vickie (Apr 29, 2009)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> well, if anyone was wondering why NAAFA has been treading water since it's inception, just read this thread and everything will begin to make sense.



Yeah well, there is _that_. Plus, are we to understand that a movement cannot evolve, cannot deviate from the initial intent and concept of one guy? That just because Bill Fabrey had a vision _decades ago_, even though our culture has changed, the SA/FA/WhateverA movement you want to call it has to toe the line with that vision? 

Good to know. You'd think that we, as fat people, could decide what our movement means. But hey, what do I know? I just lived my life as a fat woman for 40 years. Clearly, I'm an idiot and have no idea what I'm talking about. 



> repulsive, disgusting, gross. yeah, I see a lot of shit in this thread that could be described as that and none of it has anything to do with that girl.



Yes. This. Thank you.


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Apr 29, 2009)

Jon Blaze said:


> Dimensions is not a site about Size or Fat Acceptance, and you said it yourself that they are different. Admiration of for all sizes is ADMIRATION OF ALL SIZES. Size and Fat Acceptance is different, huh? Then why are you mixing fat admiration as if they are related? Last I checked, they aren't, which is why NAAFA has a policy on Fat Admirers instead of being the national assocation to advance fat admiration. :bow:
> 
> I don't get where you guys are getting the notion that even if the core movements were not meant for thin people that it makes it ok to slander them (Or that they aren't railed on when you've just done so). I'd love for you to ask the head of NAAFA, the ISAA, and all of us at the fatosphere if that's ok. Very few will say yes. I can guarantee you that.


It's so nice that you think you speak for everyone in SIze Acceptance, Jon. I can assure you that you do not.

And I am NOT "slandering" thin people. I'm just saying that the size aceptance movement has nothing to do with them - other than them accepting fat people the way they are.


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## Mathias (Apr 29, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> It's so nice that you think you speak for everyone in SIze Acceptance, Jon. I can assure you that you do not.
> 
> And I am NOT "slandering" thin people. I'm just saying that the size aceptance movement has nothing to do with them - other than them accepting fat people the way they are.



You don't speak for size acceptance either. No single person can, they can only offer their experiences to others for hope of a better understanding.


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## Mathias (Apr 29, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> It's so nice that you think you speak for everyone in SIze Acceptance, Jon. I can assure you that you do not.
> 
> And I am NOT "slandering" thin people. I'm just saying that the size aceptance movement has nothing to do with them - *other than them accepting fat people the way they are*.



Then it DOES has something to do with them.


----------



## Tracyarts (Apr 29, 2009)

" Just another excuse for dumb bitches to skate through life on their looks and remain mentally a 13 year old for the rest of their pathetic, empty lives. "

It makes me sad to read that. 

I don't understand how somebody who feels so much hatred and anger towards women of a specific body type could possibly have healthy feelings towards women of any other body type. To be honest, *this* fat woman doesn't want you in her corner. I am sure there are others who would agree. 

Tracy


----------



## TraciJo67 (Apr 29, 2009)

Tracyarts said:


> " Just another excuse for dumb bitches to skate through life on their looks and remain mentally a 13 year old for the rest of their pathetic, empty lives. "
> 
> It makes me sad to read that.
> 
> ...



x2 .........


----------



## thatgirl08 (Apr 29, 2009)

The best way to fight for the acceptance of fat people is to be an absolute asshole to skinny ones. 

(drip.. drip)


----------



## furious styles (Apr 29, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> It's so nice that you think you speak for everyone in SIze Acceptance, Jon. I can assure you that you do not.
> 
> And I am NOT "slandering" thin people. I'm just saying that the size aceptance movement has nothing to do with them - other than them accepting fat people the way they are.



i may be just one person but Jon can speak for me on size acceptance whenever the hell he wants. he's one of the most articulate, well-read, and passionate people i know in regards to the movement, as well as a good friend. he knows we don't live in a perfect dream world. so did Dr. MLK, Gandhi or anyone else that's argued for equality. that certainly doesn't mean he can't voice his opinion for it.


----------



## LoveBHMS (Apr 29, 2009)

Whenever these dicussions come up, I think about a briefing book I read a long time ago that was compiled by HRC (Human Rights Campaign) regarding the need for ENDA, the "Employment Non Discrimination Act" which stated that it would be illegal to fire somebody or discriminate in hiring based on sexual orientation. NOT being gay, but sexual orientation. Clearly most discrimination based on sexual orientation is against gays, but HRC also managed to find a case where the management of a Miami Beach club fired all the straight employees in order to attract a gay clientele. Since ENDA did not exist, it was legal to fire somebody simply for being straight. Of course, the gay community got wind of what this club's management had done and boycotted the place.

My point being, it is no more right to use the term "skinny bitch" than "fat bitch". It is no more ok to speculate on the health or lifestyle of a person you don't even know based on nothing but appearance. Just as not all fatties sit around eating pork rinds, not all skinny people sit around drinking black coffee and eating carrot sticks. Just as not all fatties are lazy, not all skinnies exercise 10 hours a day.

If you are going to say it's wrong to attach any personal characteristics or make assumptions about lifestyle based on how fat somebody is, it's just as wrong to do it based on how skinny somebody is.


----------



## Jon Blaze (Apr 29, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> It's so nice that you think you speak for everyone in SIze Acceptance, Jon. I can assure you that you do not.
> 
> And I am NOT "slandering" thin people. I'm just saying that the size aceptance movement has nothing to do with them - other than them accepting fat people the way they are.




You said "Big is beautiful" is the message of Size Acceptance, and before you said that, you said that it's synonymous with Fat Acceptance, and that those *two are about fighting discrimination. * Really? Fighting discrimnation is the same thing as celebrating the large figure? Right...


----------



## Jon Blaze (Apr 29, 2009)

LoveBHMS said:


> Whenever these dicussions come up, I think about a briefing book I read a long time ago that was compiled by HRC (Human Rights Campaign) regarding the need for ENDA, the "Employment Non Discrimination Act" which stated that it would be illegal to fire somebody or discriminate in hiring based on sexual orientation. NOT being gay, but sexual orientation. Clearly most discrimination based on sexual orientation is against gays, but HRC also managed to find a case where the management of a Miami Beach club fired all the straight employees in order to attract a gay clientele. Since ENDA did not exist, it was legal to fire somebody simply for being straight. Of course, the gay community got wind of what this club's management had done and boycotted the place.
> 
> My point being, it is no more right to use the term "skinny bitch" than "fat bitch". It is no more ok to speculate on the health or lifestyle of a person you don't even know based on nothing but appearance. Just as not all fatties sit around eating pork rinds, not all skinny people sit around drinking black coffee and eating carrot sticks. Just as not all fatties are lazy, not all skinnies exercise 10 hours a day.
> 
> If you are going to say it's wrong to attach any personal characteristics or make assumptions about lifestyle based on how fat somebody is, it's just as wrong to do it based on how skinny somebody is.




Exactly! It doesn't fucking matter what movement you claim to be a part of. It's still wrong, and regardless of whether or not you think Fat/Size Acceptance covers thin people: No one relevant in the movement is going to say "It's ok to slander thin people." Linda will not. Marilyn will not. Peggy will not. Kate Harding will not. I doubt Bill will, but if he does, he won't get a cent out of me, and I won't help NAAFA out ever again. But again, I doubt that. Just ask them! It's not hard. :bow:


----------



## Mathias (Apr 29, 2009)

Jon Blaze said:


> Exactly! It doesn't fucking matter what movement you claim to be a part of. It's still wrong, and regardless of whether or not you think Fat/Size Acceptance covers thin people: No one relevant in the movement is going to say "It's ok to slander thin people." Linda will not. Marilyn will not. Peggy will not. Kate Harding will not. I doubt Bill will, but if he does, he won't get a cent out of me, and I won't help NAAFA out ever again. But again, I doubt that. Just ask them! It's not hard. :bow:



It won't let me rep you.


----------



## protuberance (Apr 29, 2009)

Jon Blaze said:


> If everyone weren't equal, then it goes from their existence to how they're treated. If you expect me to treat you with respect, then I expect you to do the same for me. It's not a one way street.



It's not necessary for me to have everyone's respect. I could care less about the respect of a perfect stranger, because I don't know them and it doesn't make a difference in my life. If I care to have someone's respect, I will show it to them.


----------



## thatgirl08 (Apr 29, 2009)

Mr tough guy.


----------



## Jack Skellington (Apr 29, 2009)

GutsGirl said:


> I seriously think you need to examine yourself and see whether you have any issues with women as a gender, because that right there? Was breath-takingly misogynistic.



Well said.


----------



## protuberance (Apr 29, 2009)

mossystate said:


> So, you are mad that fat women cannot participate in these pageants?...no?...yes? You seem to be all over the place.
> 
> Do you prefer your ' dumb bitches ' have meat on their bones? And, as much as I desssspise beauty contests, no matter the weight of the women, to say that all these women are dumb...is...well...stupid.
> 
> ...



I don't give a shit who is allowed into pageants, because they mean nothing to me and that was made perfectly clear in my post, chief. Sure, maybe there have been a few smart contestants, but anyone who's watched even one or has heard these girls speak knows that they are generally stupid, which makes perfect sense, because they're conventionally beautiful, so they've had no need to learn anything, but how to remain pretty for as long as possible. 

I don't have any sashes, because A: I'm an ugly dude, B: I've developed a personality, C: I've spent my life studying and D: Pageants are meaningless and boring wastes of time, money and energy.


----------



## protuberance (Apr 29, 2009)

Tracyarts said:


> " Just another excuse for dumb bitches to skate through life on their looks and remain mentally a 13 year old for the rest of their pathetic, empty lives. "
> 
> It makes me sad to read that.
> 
> ...



It makes me sad that you and others cannot understand, after I have repeatedly stated, the fact that I do not hate skinny women. That has been made perfectly clear in the post you quoted and others I have made. As for being not being allowed in your corner, I'm crushed. How the fuck can I live on?


----------



## protuberance (Apr 29, 2009)

GutsGirl said:


> I don't really know what to say, other than that I think none of the women on this board find that sort of attitude at all attractive. Consequently, YOU aren't attractive. Let's see... misogyny, blasphemy, and generally arrogant asshat assumptions. Yep, you've got quite a list, there.
> 
> I seriously think you need to examine yourself and see whether you have any issues with women as a gender, because that right there? Was breath-takingly misogynistic.



Meh, as long as I get one laugh from someone else, I'm cool with being called a misogynist by a total stranger on the internet.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Apr 29, 2009)

protuberance said:


> I don't have any sashes



for now.


----------



## fatgirlflyin (Apr 29, 2009)

Wonder just how insulting someone is allowed to be before getting banned?


----------



## Mathias (Apr 29, 2009)

Never mind...


----------



## Mathias (Apr 29, 2009)

Are you seriously trying to see how big of an asshole you can be before a mod steps in? I honestly have to ask at this point.


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 29, 2009)

A mod already stepped in, thankfully. How long before he gets banned?


----------



## fatgirlflyin (Apr 29, 2009)

Her, herself. Not him. 

There really are some pretty great people that post here that you run the risk of alienating with the type of posts you're leaving here in this thread. Which I guess is fine if you aren't looking to make friends or establish connections, but if that's the case why bother posting here at all?






protuberance said:


> Step 1: Learn what a joke is.
> Step 2: Learn that awful things can be funny.
> 
> My telling him to kill himself was not in response to him calling me a tough guy, so actually, step 1 for you should be, "Learn to read."


----------



## BothGunsBlazing (Apr 29, 2009)

protuberance said:


> It's not necessary for me to have everyone's respect. *I could care less* about the respect of a perfect stranger, because I don't know them and it doesn't make a difference in my life. If I care to have someone's respect, I will show it to them.



Rule #1 of telling some one to learn to read.

Learn basic grammar. 








protuberance said:


> Step 1: Learn what a joke is.
> Step 2: Learn that awful things can be funny.
> 
> My telling him to kill himself was not in response to him calling me a tough guy, so actually, step 1 for you should be, "Learn to read."



Jokes about "awful" topics can be funny. Jokes that are awful are not funny. 

Learn to differentiate between the two.


----------



## DitzyBrunette (Apr 29, 2009)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> Rule #1 of telling some one to learn to read.
> 
> Learn basic grammar.



*sneaks in quietly..*

Stealing this pic... 

*sneaks out*


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Apr 30, 2009)

furious styles said:


> i may be just one person but Jon can speak for me on size acceptance whenever the hell he wants. he's one of the most articulate, well-read, and passionate people i know in regards to the movement, as well as a good friend. he knows we don't live in a perfect dream world. so did Dr. MLK, Gandhi or anyone else that's argued for equality. that certainly doesn't mean he can't voice his opinion for it.


That's right - it's HIS opinion. That does not make him right.


----------



## Mathias (Apr 30, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> That's right - it's HIS opinion. That does not make him right.



It's a two way street Wayne. Just because you say something doesn't mean we all will agree.


----------



## Wayne_Zitkus (Apr 30, 2009)

Jon Blaze said:


> Exactly! It doesn't fucking matter what movement you claim to be a part of. It's still wrong, and regardless of whether or not you think Fat/Size Acceptance covers thin people: No one relevant in the movement is going to say "It's ok to slander thin people." Linda will not. Marilyn will not. Peggy will not. Kate Harding will not. I doubt Bill will, but if he does, he won't get a cent out of me, and I won't help NAAFA out ever again. But again, I doubt that. Just ask them! It's not hard. :bow:


And for the last time, Jon, I am NOT slandering thin people. Perhaps before you use that word again, you should look up its meaning in a dictionary...


----------



## Mathias (Apr 30, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> And for the last time, Jon, I am NOT slandering thin people. Perhaps before you use that word again, you should look up its meaning in a dictionary...



You're alienating them though.


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Apr 30, 2009)

I have decided to stop posting in this thread. No one is listening to what I am saying, and all I'm doing is spinning my wheels. I have better things to do with my time.


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## Miss Vickie (Apr 30, 2009)

protuberance said:


> [snippage...]which makes perfect sense, because they're conventionally beautiful, so they've had no need to learn anything, but how to remain pretty for as long as possible.



So you're saying that the only reason women need to learn is if they're not conventionally beautiful? So it's not possible for a woman to both a) be attractive and b) be intellectually curious and bright?

Wow, what century IS this, anyway?



protuberance said:


> It makes me sad that you and others cannot understand, after I have repeatedly stated, the fact that I do not hate skinny women.



I don't think you hate skinny women. I think you hate -- or at least minimize -- ALL women. See the difference?

Oh and for someone who doesn't care what other people think of you, you're spending a whole lotta time answering and defending yourself. Just sayin'.


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## Mathias (Apr 30, 2009)

Others including myself were just posting valid counter points, but hey, whatever.


----------



## Jack Skellington (Apr 30, 2009)

Getting back on topic.

In my opinion, ridiculing a photo of a very thin woman is the same as when photos of bbws are posted on other sites for people to make fun of. It's wrong and cruel in both cases. Exchanging one prejudice for another in no way helps women of any size. The insults directed towards bbws and or thin women, in my opinion, shows deeper issues and lack of respect for women in general.

I feel our society as a whole has a long way to go in treating all women with respect and dignity. As I mentioned earlier, I feel, the media seems to perpetuate a social conditioning that women are either too thin or too fat and never acceptable the way they are.


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## imfree (Apr 30, 2009)

_____________________________


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## Fascinita (Apr 30, 2009)

Protub...

Hmm, I mean, you up there.

Listen here. A person who likes funk can't be all bad.

How come you waltz in here using the "b" word and calling beauty contestants stupid? Reconsider your position. Stupidity happens across all demographics. Is there really a need to piss all over the thin beauty contestant demographic categorically? No. There isn't. I think this is what people are taking issue with.

The fact is, fat people are too used to being called "fat so-and-so" and being accused of stupidity (and more) based on their weight alone. If it's OK to call a group of thin women "stupid" here merely for being thin and participating in thin beauty culture, what ground do we--who try to create a culture of fat acceptance here--have to stand on when we ask that fat people not be qualified as stupid merely for being fat? It gets complicated, see. None of us exists completely separate from others.

I grant you that the practice of beauty contests is corrupt and pretty dumb. But don't extend that judgment to the people who take part in them. Displays of beauty, full of preening, go on at Dimensions all the time. We just can't know firsthand that the individual showing off his/her assets for public appraisal is "stupid" and "pathetic." 

Beauty and intelligence are not mutually exclusive. If you want to condemn the practice of pageantry, that's one thing. Just please take some care that you're not insulting to entire groups of people, for starters. Many of us here would like to believe that it's possible to be beautiful AND intelligent, fat or thin.


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## Ivy (Apr 30, 2009)

thatgirl08 said:


> This girl is absolutely gorgeous in my opinion, regardless of size. I do think she looks too small though. However, I don't think it's far to eliminate her from competing unless it's determined that shes this not naturally this small because there are some people who are just naturally thin. I also don't think it's fair to call her scary, weird, and bad for other peoples body image. Reverse sizeism isn't cool.



i agree with you completely. i can't rep you though. 

also, it is possible to be that thin and still be healthy, just like it's possible to be 5'6 and 350++ pounds and in good health. i've dated and been in relationships with several men who fell in the 5'10-5'11 and 110-130 pound range who were perfectly healthy. they weren't anorexic, they weren't obsessed with working out, and they definitely ate a healthy amount. some people are just naturally very thin.


----------



## Sandie S-R (Apr 30, 2009)

*After mopping up from the train wreck, I am reopening this thread. 

Keep it on topic and civil please. 

/Moderator*


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## Mini (Apr 30, 2009)

The girl gets my approval based entirely on her height. Also kind of cute.


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## Miss Vickie (Apr 30, 2009)

I wonder, why does there have to be weight limits -- in either direction, high OR low -- for beauty pageants? Does it really matter if a woman is too thin or too fat? And who decides that?

Personally, given the debacle the last runner up made of the same sex marriage question, I'd rather see a minimum IQ requirement.


----------



## butch (Apr 30, 2009)

I find it curious that an organization who changed their name from the National Association to Aid Fat Americans to the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance is being made out to be an organization that has no interest in expanding the umbrella of 'size acceptance' for people of all sizes? That it is stuck in a time warp for the past 40 years?

My friends who are active in NAAFA would tell you that NAAFA is for acceptance for all body sizes and types, as the front page of their web site states:

"Founded in 1969, the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance (NAAFA) is a non-profit civil rights organization dedicated to ending size discrimination in all of its forms. NAAFA's goal is to help build a society in which people of every size are accepted with dignity and equality in all aspects of life. NAAFA will pursue this goal through advocacy, public education, and support. "

Anyway, don't believe me that NAAFA is for size acceptance for all, check out their website:

www.naafa.org

Back to the debate. None of us are free from size bigotry until all of us are free from size bigotry, OK?


----------



## GenericGeek (Apr 30, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> ...Does it really matter if a woman is too thin or too fat? And who decides that?
> 
> *Personally, given the debacle the last runner up made of the same sex marriage question, I'd rather see a minimum IQ requirement. *



(SNORT!!!  Sings -- badly: )

_There will come a time when everybody
Who is lonely will be free...
TO SING & DANCE & LOVE

There will come a time when every evil
That we know will be an evil...
THAT WE CAN RISE ABOVE

Who cares if hair is long or short
or sprayed or partly grayed...
WE KNOW THAT HAIR AIN'T WHERE IT'S AT

*There will come a time when you won't
even be ashamed if you are fat -- WAH WAH-WAH WAH WAAHHH...*

There will come a time when everybody
Who is lonely will be free...
TO SING & DANCE & LOVE (dance and love)

There will come a time when every evil
that we know will be an evil...
THAT WE CAN RISE ABOVE (rise above)

Who cares if you're so poor you can't afford
To buy a pair of Mod A Go-Go stretch-elastic pants...
THERE WILL COME A TIME WHEN YOU CAN EVEN
TAKE YOUR CLOTHES OFF WHEN YOU DANCE _

("Take Your Clothes Off When You Dance" -- Frank Zappa [pbuh :bow:])


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## GutsGirl (Apr 30, 2009)

GenericGeek said:


> (SNORT!!!  Sings -- badly: )
> 
> _There will come a time when everybody
> Who is lonely will be free...
> ...



Zappa's awesome.  *is addicted to listening to "Charlie's Enormous Mouth"*



Miss Vickie said:


> I wonder, why does there have to be weight limits -- in either direction, high OR low -- for beauty pageants? Does it really matter if a woman is too thin or too fat? And who decides that?



Agreed.


----------



## thatgirl08 (Apr 30, 2009)

butch said:


> I find it curious that an organization who changed their name from the National Association to Aid Fat Americans to the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance is being made out to be an organization that has no interest in expanding the umbrella of 'size acceptance' for people of all sizes? That it is stuck in a time warp for the past 40 years?
> 
> My friends who are active in NAAFA would tell you that NAAFA is for acceptance for all body sizes and types, as the front page of their web site states:
> 
> ...



I wish I could rep you. Great post!


----------



## Jon Blaze (Apr 30, 2009)

thatgirl08 said:


> I wish I could rep you. Great post!



I could! REPSUDEN-HA!!!! lol


----------



## Cors (Apr 30, 2009)

I don't think there is an official weight limit. Just height, nationality and that one must not have undergone cosmetic or sex reassignment surgery. 

I see many people harping on how fat women are discriminated against. The thing is, do fat women even want to participate? Sure, they might not get through the selection process. Most emaciated women don't either, beauty contestants are generally regarded as pleasantly slim (though I know some people here think that anything under 200lbs is anorexic ) but I can imagine that the negative public attention is what puts them off from even applying. 





Chloe Marshall is a Miss England finalist and she is a UK size 16. Not exactly fat, especially by Dims standards. In fact, she is just about average here or even slimmer, considering that she is significantly taller than most British women of the same size. I remember reading somewhere that she is the only curvy girl from her area who actually tried out.


----------



## GutsGirl (May 1, 2009)

Cors said:


> Chloe Marshall is a Miss England finalist and she is a UK size 16. Not exactly fat, especially by Dims standards. In fact, she is just about average here or even slimmer, considering that she is significantly taller than most British women of the same size. I remember reading somewhere that she is the only curvy girl from her area who actually tried out.



Yeah, and there were people harping on her weight in the Daily Mail's online article about it and saying how unhealthy and ugly she looked.  I actually posted on there and took them to task for their false pity for her... I don't think the Daily Mail posted my comment, though. 

Fortunately, the ones who harped on it all had really low approval ratings for their comments.


----------



## snipermb435 (May 4, 2009)

Pearlover90000 said:


> I suppose they had this story on my MSN homepage for some kind of shock value.
> 
> Some miss australia was in the miss universe pagent and doctors and others were saying she was too skinny to be in the contest, and that she should be checked out --bloodwork, etc.
> 
> ...



Whoa, i cant believe what i am seeing,5'11 and 108 pounds of bones, wow, i am sorry, if this women thinks she is pretty, well, i dont think so, persoanlly, i know, but still when bones stick out of a human body like hers do and you can see every definition of her bones, then my body does like a omg i wanna hurl, cant help it, but i agree with the judges, she needs to see a doctor, have reverse lipo, etc, lol, never work, but still. i shall put a sock in it now, and wait for the onslaught oif comments. just stating my opinion of her.


----------



## TraciJo67 (May 4, 2009)

snipermb435 said:


> Whoa, i cant believe what i am seeing,5'11 and 108 pounds of bones, wow, i am sorry, if this women thinks she is pretty, well, i dont think so, persoanlly, i know, but still when bones stick out of a human body like hers do and you can see every definition of her bones, then my body does like a omg i wanna hurl, cant help it, but i agree with the judges, she needs to see a doctor, have reverse lipo, etc, lol, never work, but still. i shall put a sock in it now, and wait for the onslaught oif comments. just stating my opinion of her.



And many people would say very similar things about Ms. Chloe Marshall, the plus-size beauty pageant contestant. In much the same fashion, using words like "i wanna hurl" and "how dare this woman think she's pretty", etc. 

Would you be offended by the ignorance and intolerance displayed in cruel comments about fat beauty contestants? If so, wouldn't you have to acnowledge that your position is rather hypocritical?


----------



## mossystate (May 4, 2009)

* rummages through my laundry basket for just the ripe...errr....right pair *

and..no..i was not stalking traci..i clicked on the thread before she posted


----------



## Jon Blaze (May 4, 2009)

snipermb435 said:


> Whoa, i cant believe what i am seeing,5'11 and 108 pounds of bones, wow, i am sorry, if this women thinks she is pretty, well, i dont think so, persoanlly, i know, but still when bones stick out of a human body like hers do and you can see every definition of her bones, then my body does like a omg i wanna hurl, cant help it, but i agree with the judges, she needs to see a doctor, have reverse lipo, etc, lol, never work, but still. i shall put a sock in it now, and wait for the onslaught oif comments. just stating my opinion of her.




No one says you have to like her or be attracted to her. But if you expect people to respect your preferences, you have to respect her.


----------



## snipermb435 (May 4, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> And many people would say very similar things about Ms. Chloe Marshall, the plus-size beauty pageant contestant. In much the same fashion, using words like "i wanna hurl" and "how dare this woman think she's pretty", etc.
> 
> Would you be offended by the ignorance and intolerance displayed in cruel comments about fat beauty contestants? If so, wouldn't you have to acnowledge that your position is rather hypocritical?



yeah, i thought about it after a wrote about it, i totally agree with you, i mean i am not calling her ungly, not what i meant, it's just in a contest where i have watched one or two minutes of, all women where all perffectly proportioned, not plump, fat, but just right as it where, and when i saw this i was like wow, is all i can say, so yeah i am a hypocrit for saying it and i apologiuse, cause i let my fingers do the talking some times and then my mind says after enter been hit, wait you idiot. we are all beautiful in gods eyes or the god you believe in.


----------



## snipermb435 (May 4, 2009)

mossystate said:


> * rummages through my laundry basket for just the ripe...errr....right pair *
> 
> and..no..i was not stalking traci..i clicked on the thread before she posted



lol, read my latest post.


----------



## TraciJo67 (May 4, 2009)

mossystate said:


> * rummages through my laundry basket for just the ripe...errr....right pair *
> 
> and..no..i was not stalking traci..i clicked on the thread before she posted



I'm fairly certain that you actually meant 'ripe', Mossytwatteringthing.


----------



## snipermb435 (May 4, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> I'm fairly certain that you actually meant 'ripe', Mossytwatteringthing.



Either way, this topic, to me gives you and insight to how quick you can judge someone or something, hey, we are humen, not perfect, i make no excuses for myself. my first comment was really meant to jsut say hay i prefer larger women, and it didnt.


----------



## Jon Blaze (May 4, 2009)

snipermb435 said:


> Either way, this topic, to me gives you and insight to how quick you can judge someone or something, hey, we are humen, not perfect, i make no excuses for myself. my first comment was really meant to jsut say hay i prefer larger women, and it didnt.



Fair enough, but just because you prefer something doesn't mean you hate its opposite.


----------



## snipermb435 (May 4, 2009)

Jon Blaze said:


> Fair enough, but just because you prefer something doesn't mean you hate its opposite.



very true, well i dont hate it, if i said i did, its just not appealing. well lets get off this bantor and find something more to talk about.


----------



## Pearlover90000 (May 5, 2009)

LillyBBBW said:


> Yes but how is that supposed to be determined? Do they follow her around and watch her for a week to scrutinize what she eats? What if at 430 pounds I want to get in the contest? Are they going to test me to see if I'm naturally this way? How are they going to do that? Do the others have to show that their weights are natural and not the result of drugs or surgery? Her weight even if its natural is considered unhealthy, same as mine is. I think it's perfectly reasonable for her and me to be discriminated against for that reason. If they're going to let her compete then I want in.



OK--so you're saying you want put on a regulation bikini and compete in this contest


----------



## mossystate (May 5, 2009)

I am thinking that is exaaaaaaaaaaaaactly what Lilly was saying.


----------



## imfree (May 5, 2009)

Pearlover90000 said:


> OK--so you're saying you want put on a regulation bikini and compete in this contest



Watch out! This girl has a strong enough character
to not ONLY do it, but to do it with STYLE!:bow:


*Sorry I'm out of LillyBBBW Rep, someone
please Rep that lovely gal for me.


----------



## LillyBBBW (May 5, 2009)

Pearlover90000 said:


> OK--so you're saying you want put on a regulation bikini and compete in this contest



My parents are still alive and I'd like to keep it that way for the time being. In their advanced years I try to keep my crazed stunts beneath a certain cap level.  It's the principle of the thing I was getting at.


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## Diego (May 13, 2009)

Some people have the sound of hypocrite. It could be that she is not healthy of not eating enough but we can't just to say that - without knowing. Same with big people as well they can be healthy or not so much healthy. So she is beautiful girl, i read from other contestant that she is "naturally thin" and i think we cant want punishment for her for being too small. It could be that it is so hard for her to get even one pound more and i would not blame her if she doesn't want this effort when being thin is good in contests like this one as well.


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## exile in thighville (May 13, 2009)

spunker88 said:


> Its too bad that people do this to themselves. Young girls looks up to these people and this is why anorexia is so popular.
> 
> She doesnt even look that hot to me. Add 100lbs and she would probably look great, but im an FA of course. I dont want to see a shrink wrapped skeleton, i want to see curves!



you guys are doing this thread totally wrong

assuming this girl has health problems is the most hypocritical shit on a SIZE ACCEPTANCE forum


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## thatgirl08 (May 13, 2009)

exile in thighville said:


> you guys are doing this thread totally wrong
> 
> assuming this girl has health problems is the most hypocritical shit on a SIZE ACCEPTANCE forum



Dude, we talked about this like 8 pages ago.


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## exile in thighville (May 13, 2009)

thatgirl08 said:


> Dude, we talked about this like 8 pages ago.


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## thatgirl08 (May 13, 2009)

From Urban Dictionary -



> Usually said by people who a) have never read a book, b) have no logical retort, c) want an easy laugh



THAT'S YOU:]

[Also, I love that book so STFU.]


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## GutsGirl (May 13, 2009)

exile in thighville said:


>



Haha! Good one!


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