# This guy will not date an overweight girl



## moonvine (Sep 26, 2013)

amongst many other things....I did find it encouraging some of the comments mentioned fat shaming....the funny thing is that he's not very thin himself...
http://jezebel.com/delusional-man-child-has-most-incredible-list-of-dating-1382052948


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## Diana_Prince245 (Sep 26, 2013)

moonvine said:


> amongst many other things....I did find it encouraging some of the comments mentioned fat shaming....the funny thing is that he's not very thin himself...
> http://jezebel.com/delusional-man-child-has-most-incredible-list-of-dating-1382052948



The ruffled shirts. Oh, my God the ruffled shirts. Yea, Jezzies are pretty anti-fat hate.


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## Never2fat4me (Sep 26, 2013)

I guess you can say at least he is up front about his preferences. 

Interesting comment you make about him not being thin himself; not sure we can really fault him for still seeking a thin woman in spite of his size. I am BHM myself, and I prefer an SSBBW (who would be comparatively much fatter than me), so don't feel that I can really judge him for wanting a woman who is thinner. I've thought about this quite a bit over the years, actually, having been rejected by my share of SSBBWs for not being thin enough to meet their ideal. It used to make me pretty mad - I mean, why should someone who is fat and dealt with all the anti-fat prejudice themselves then reject me for being too fat - but now I try to be zen about it. I have come to realize that if I prefer an SSBBW and one of the reasons I am attracted to them is for their size, then why should I criticize someone else for having their own preference for some skinny dude.

In the end, it's all about preferences. Some we may find stupid - and in this case, the way it is expressed leads one to question why any girl would want to be with this guy - but then again, I am sure that many (most?) would find my love of extremely fat women to be bizarre/disgusting/incomprehensible (pick your adjective). So as long as a person treats others with respect, then I say live and let live.

- Chris


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## loopytheone (Sep 26, 2013)

Awww, I don't fit his criteria! I am so gutted, I am gonna cry myself to sleep!


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## Yukikaze (Sep 26, 2013)

I don't see much difference between him and many BBW/SSBBWs:
Won't date Black people.
Won't date overweight men.


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## CastingPearls (Sep 26, 2013)

I don't think it's wrong to not be attracted to fat people if you're fat because it's a preference. I just think it's interesting because one might assume (and we all know what happens when we assume) that a fat person might have more compassion or be more open-minded towards other fat people, but in my experience, it's often the opposite. So many fat people are some of the most hateful toward other fat people. And quite a few thin people are more open-minded. I'd like to think it's because they loved a fat person in their life, like a mom, gran, or aunt (and male counterparts) but even that doesn't always apply because many anti-fat activists point to a relative that inspired them to be anti-fat because their fat disgusted them.


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## AuntHen (Sep 26, 2013)

I think it's one thing when a person has a preference and goes after that (just lets it show in their life) and another when they rant and rave about what they DON'T like. 

I mean who cares. You don't want this or that, fine. Why shout about it? It seems to me, it is more about being bitter and negative than really looking for his "dream girl". 

And to tag on to what Lainey said, a lot of "used to be fat, just lost weight" peeps can be soooo mean and ridiculously anti-fat.


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## CastingPearls (Sep 26, 2013)

fat9276 said:


> I think it's one thing when a person has a preference and goes after that (just lets it show in their life) and another when they rant and rave about what they DON'T like.
> 
> I mean who cares. You don't want this or that, fine. Why shout about it? It seems to me, it is more about being bitter and negative than really looking for his "dream girl".
> 
> And to tag on Lainey, a lot of "used to be fat, just lost weight" peeps can be soooo mean and ridiculously anti-fat.


This guy is a fruitcake, emphasis on the nuts.


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## Miskatonic (Sep 26, 2013)

I was gonna make a comment about how everyone has their preferences and are entitled to them and then I read the entire article and discovered what a douche this guy is.

This is about as bad as the 300 sandwiches guy.


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## AuntHen (Sep 26, 2013)

CastingPearls said:


> This guy is a fruitcake, emphasis on the nuts.



50% rockstar + 50% CEO= 100% unique 

aka. cray cray haha


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## CastingPearls (Sep 26, 2013)

Miskatonic said:


> I was gonna make a comment about how everyone has their preferences and are entitled to them and then I read the entire article and discovered what a douche this guy is.
> 
> This is about as bad as the 300 sandwiches guy.


The 300 sandwiches girlfriend really can use some therapy, wouldn't you agree? LOL
She's got to be shopping for a book deal. I can't imagine this being real, or at least not very exaggerated.


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## Miskatonic (Sep 26, 2013)

CastingPearls said:


> The 300 sandwiches girlfriend really can use some therapy, wouldn't you agree? LOL
> She's got to be shopping for a book deal. I can't imagine this being real, or at least not very exaggerated.



I don't know what's going on with her but certain aspects of the story feel like its a "pay attention to me" kind of thing.


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## vardon_grip (Sep 26, 2013)

This article sucks.
All it does is mock a man about his dating profile and provide the audience with the opportunity to escalate an internet bullying campaign. It doesn't matter that the guy seems like a jerk to a lot of people...it is still wrong. It's okay to mock and bully someone you don't like, right? Having the anonymity of the internet makes it that much easier. It seems like the author took to Craigslist or OK Cupid to look for personal ads that she could make fun of. Is that where journalistic inspiration is coming from these days? I am surprised that someone hasn't brought up that the guy might have Asperger syndrome because of his extremely specific singles ad and its lack of understanding of social integration. _Understanding? Hell no! It gets in the way of our bullying! We're so cool!_

While "Sleepless in Austin" (SIA) may be sorely lacking any sense of diplomacy in writing his dating profile, the details that he wants in his partner are nothing that most of us haven't said or heard before....
Must be DDF (drug and disease free)
I don't want to date someone who is promiscuous
I don't want to date someone in the sex trade
I prefer not to date someone with kids
I like my men with a college degree and to have a good job and a car
I prefer Latin or Middle Eastern men...(sorry, you other guys; thats what I like! 
No baby mama/daddy drama! That's a deal breaker!

This article is very interesting in its relationship to a lot of the posters at Dimensions. 
If "SIA" is "delusional" for stating his (very) specific dating requirements, then there are a lot of men and women that post on Dimensions that are "delusional" as well. 
There is no difference between "SIA" saying, _" I will not date a overweight or fat girl."_ 
...and the people here that say, _"I will only date a thin FA."_ 
or _"I want a thin FFA."_
or _"I will only date someone who is a pear (sorry apples! lol!) between 378lbs. - 378-1/2lbs., C-cup with short blond hair"_ 
or _"I don't want to date a fat guy, even though I am a fat girl. Sorry."_
Absolutely no difference.

The general response is, "I like what I like." How one opinion can be a "preference" and another very similar opinion can be "prejudice" is something that is really hard to fathom.

It seems that some Jezebel writers (which relates to Jezebel across the board) and bloggers in general love to promote snark and bitching. Everyone knows that snark and bitching can make you popular. In high school.

Internet bullying; It sure as hell ain't right and it sure as hell ain't journalism.


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## AuntHen (Sep 26, 2013)

Can't rep you right now vardon.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Sep 26, 2013)

I can't help feeling sorry for Sleepless in Austin: he comes across as someone who is socially inept and terribly afraid of rejection. People I've known who were hypercritical of others and loudly trumpeted their extensive "requirements" for a significant other have usually been rejected and scarred by it. They seem to feel that if they can reject the other person first they have somehow "won." It is less an attack than a defense, and it is doomed to fail because it fails to take the (hypothetical) other person's feelings into account.


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## superodalisque (Sep 26, 2013)

actually i think this is quite a few guys. they have their lists. they expect other humans to be like a new video game or a guitar and conform to their requirements. yes he is socially inept. yes he may be disconnected. but he also may be narcissistic and entitled. people should feel sorry for him--but not sorry enough to let it go. sometimes the best thing for people is the full fury of the public as a dose of reality. sometimes we soft peddle too any things that actually hurt others as though the bigger error is to call the on it. the attitude he has is not all that unusual and i think people have been too accepting of it for much too long--which makes it easy to maintain. it might not be that he is incapable of changing how he interacts with the world and women in particular. it may just be that no one has seriously required him to. it's true that people don't have to be abusive but they don't have to be accepting of this either. the people i truly feel sorry for are the ones who internalize opinions like his and worse yet those who meet the requirements and feel okay about him choosing them this way.


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## superodalisque (Sep 26, 2013)

fat9276 said:


> I think it's one thing when a person has a preference and goes after that (just lets it show in their life) and another when they rant and rave about what they DON'T like.
> 
> I mean who cares. You don't want this or that, fine. Why shout about it? It seems to me, it is more about being bitter and negative than really looking for his "dream girl".
> 
> And to tag on to what Lainey said, a lot of "used to be fat, just lost weight" peeps can be soooo mean and ridiculously anti-fat.



100%. if it's really about who you're attracted to you don't mention what you aren't attracted to . there is no need. it shows he has a cruel disposition. when people do that it is a dead give away that it's not a very nice or very evolved person. it's like something an abusive person would do. also it's a personalty indicator. does anybody really want to spend any time with someone so negative.

but one thing we have to ask too, is if he is no catch then why do we care what thinks anyway?


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## wrestlingguy (Sep 26, 2013)

I took the time to read this article twice, just to make sure that I hadn't missed anything.

I didn't.

When I was dating, I subscribed to sites like Plenty Of Fish, and BBW Datefinder. I read the female equivalent of this guy's profile on more than one occasion. At no time did I ever feel the need to "expose" any of those profiles to the rest of the world to judge and mock.

Does it disturb me that I person with so many physical, social, sexual, psychological, racial, and financial demands or preferences? A little, but I also think that from my limited experience in dating that he's going to have a pretty tough time finding the ideal woman. That's his problem.

Vardon makes a great point when he says that many of the people in Dims make statements than can sound similar to what we saw in this article. Again, it's THEIR problem, but no need to subject them to ridicule/cyber bullying. 

Am I defending how this person feels? Absolutely not, I completely disagree with all of his demands/preferences. In many cases, I feel the same way about the comments made in these forums, which also come across as judgmental by many.

With that said, critiquing those statements/attitudes is completely different than judging or critiquing the person making those statements. While I'm not going to lie and tell you that I haven't done the same thing in the past, I'm still working on spending less time judging the person, and more time judging their statements.


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## superodalisque (Sep 26, 2013)

i can fully understand especially people here not enjoying the idea of judging other people. after all a lot of us have faced harsh judgments of their body types. but i think a better word would be discernment. people say a whole lot about not judging other people but in my experience it's a good idea to learn how to judge or discern because those judgments of other people are the ways you can most determine the quality of your own life. so judgement in and of itself is not a bad thing. you have to be able to analyze another human beings before they impact your life in ways you don't want them to. 

people also have to be held to standards of behavior. i think the knowledge that has been gathered from this person from his own hand needs to be tied to ideas of social justice. everyone has the rights to their feelings or preferences. but do they have the right to use those in such a way that others can be hurt when there is no need? 

will anything ever change if people ignore it when others spout sizeism , racism, sexism or any other ism, which is what this man has done. if people let it go then it's as though we are agreeing. people want to make it clear they do not agree--which i find encouraging. after all he has no problem judging other people. he is actually beyond the pale when it comes to that. why should other people have a problem judging him? it might help him to finally get the golden rule. it might help him to realized he is not entitled to be unnecessarily negative and objectifying toward others. grown up people usually have learned at some point to have some restraint. you can't always say everything you think because none of us are perfect and we all know we have unfair ideas floating around in our heads that others don't deserve to be exposed to. that is just common sense.

as for bullying, what about the bullying this man has also done by making the statements he has made? what about the fat black etc...people on that site who are exposed to this. their feelings also matter. what does focusing negatively on fat people or black people etc... really have to do with expressing his preference? nothing at all. he could have just as easily have described his ideal without that. he was perfectly free to do so. maybe it is his fate to be an example that judgement can be a two way street. maybe it's his fate to learn and to teach others either through some kind of epiphany he finally comes to or by being made an example.


"A breath of will blows eternally through the universe of souls in the direction of the Right and Necessary"

Ralph Waldo Emerson
Fate


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## Isa (Sep 26, 2013)

I can understand preferences, we all have them but crap like the paragraph below just proves to me that this guy is beyond help. Plus add in his thoughts on black people found on his site (http://sleeplessinaustin.atxmirrors.info/about_me.html) and he is nothing but a sexist, racist idiot. Good luck to the woman that tries to meet his standards. 

"I prefer a woman that has never had children, because having kids does ruin a womans body often times. They end up with stretch marks. And also sometimes it makes their vagina looser, and I don’t care how many kegel exercises a woman does, after she has 2 or 3 eight to ten pound babies, you can’t tell me it’s going to be 100% as tight as it ever was! Plus, what’s even worse than all of that, is sometimes during childbirth the lips/vulva of a woman get torn and they never look the same as the did originally even after they heal, that’s why some women even get cosmetic reconstructive surgery to their vulvas after childbirth to try and regain their original appearance."


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## Dr. Feelgood (Sep 26, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> will anything ever change if people ignore it when others spout sizeism , racism or any other ism?



I think so. If you attack such a person, he will become defensive and commit himself even more strongly to his views (cf. practically any thread in Hyde Park). He will tell himself that he is right and you are wrong, and that it is his _duty_ to oppose you by speaking the truth. But if you ignore him -- if _everyone_ ignores him -- he will find some other way to get attention, because we all want others to acknowledge our existence, and being ignored hurts worse than being argued at.


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## bigmac (Sep 26, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> actually i think this is quite a few guys. they have their lists. ...



Actually most guys are quite flexible. If you ask them in the abstract what they're looking for they may indeed give you a list. But when it comes down to it guys tend to like women who like them.

Example -- in the abstract I like tall women -- however, most of the women who've flirted with or otherwise engaged with me have been on the short side. Result -- most of the women I've dated have been short.


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## superodalisque (Sep 26, 2013)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I think so. If you attack such a person, he will become defensive and commit himself even more strongly to his views (cf. practically any thread in Hyde Park). He will tell himself that he is right and you are wrong, and that it is his _duty_ to oppose you by speaking the truth. But if you ignore him -- if _everyone_ ignores him -- he will find some other way to get attention, because we all want others to acknowledge our existence, and being ignored hurts worse than being argued at.



not to be disrespectful but i am so glad everybody doesn't think like this. i would still be a slave or living under Jim Crowe. this is the very reason it's still much more acceptable to be fat prejudice than to have racial prejudice. i'm so glad that many people of all races don't ignore it when people make racist statements. my life would be a living hell. i can't imagine the LGBT community accepting it either.


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## superodalisque (Sep 26, 2013)

bigmac said:


> Actually most guys are quite flexible. If you ask them in the abstract what they're looking for they may indeed give you a list. But when it comes down to it guys tend to like women who like them.
> 
> Example -- in the abstract I like tall women -- however, most of the women who've flirted with or otherwise engaged with me have been on the short side. Result -- most of the women I've dated have been short.



well all i can say is that as a woman i have had MANY lists recited to me that i did not ask for. guys are flexible but a lot of them still have a list full of ideas and these days many won't hesitate to let you know exactly what is on that list and what is not on the list. it's like some people no longer have filters and don't have the capacity of putting themselves in the position of the other person they're talking to who may or may not fulfill the list. people have this idea that they should say absolutely everything. only kids do that. and the same guys who do it often get very upset when a woman who is just as clueless brings out her list and does the same. i'm not exempting women from this behavior at all. it's just as messed up when women do it. the thing is the people they end up being happiest with often have absolutely nothing in common with that stupid list.


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## tonynyc (Sep 26, 2013)

At the end of the day SIA has done the public a real favor....


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## CastingPearls (Sep 26, 2013)

This guy's 'about me' is the most racist, misogynist, homophobic profile I've ever seen. It's more than just listing preferences. By publicizing this, he wants the attention, so it's not an invasion of privacy. He is judging, but he doesn't want to be judged. In his FAQs he tells women, (paraphrased) You don't ask me. You don't make demands (like him). I'm the man and I'm the one who's doing the search so you have to answer my questions.

He's entitled to his search and clearly there's some interest in him (evidently, according to him, gold-diggers and whores (his words) are inundating him with inquiries.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Sep 26, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> not to be disrespectful but i am so glad everybody doesn't think like this. i would still be a slave or living under Jim Crowe.



I think you just changed the subject. Up to now, the discussion has been about people expressing unpleasant opinions. When you bring in slavery and Jim Crow laws, you're no longer talking about blowhards sounding off: you're talking about unjust institutions. And I agree that unjust institutions should be argued against, fought against, and opposed in every way short of violence. I'm not saying you shouldn't argue against people you disagree with, either; I just believe that the more attention they get -- whether positive or negative -- the more they will spout. Children who don't get positive attention from their parents will misbehave -- even if it means a whipping -- rather than be ignored. And the children we were are still part of us.


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## tonynyc (Sep 26, 2013)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I think so. If you attack such a person, he will become defensive and commit himself even more strongly to his views (cf. practically any thread in Hyde Park). He will tell himself that he is right and you are wrong, and that it is his _duty_ to oppose you by speaking the truth. But if you ignore him -- if _everyone_ ignores him -- he will find some other way to get attention, because we all want others to acknowledge our existence, and being ignored hurts worse than being argued at.



*Hmmm you might be on to something .....*


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## superodalisque (Sep 26, 2013)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I think you just changed the subject. Up to now, the discussion has been about people expressing unpleasant opinions. When you bring in slavery and Jim Crow laws, you're no longer talking about blowhards sounding off: you're talking about unjust institutions. And I agree that unjust institutions should be argued against, fought against, and opposed in every way short of violence. I'm not saying you shouldn't argue against people you disagree with, either; I just believe that the more attention they get -- whether positive or negative -- the more they will spout. Children who don't get positive attention from their parents will misbehave -- even if it means a whipping -- rather than be ignored. And the children we were are still part of us.



it's not changing a subject when you are talking about attitudes about sex race size and human rights. institutions are composed of people with opinions and attitudes making decisions. laws do not make themselves and not independent of human opinions. when people are silent in the face of injustice you get things like the holocaust happening. if antisemitism had not been in his own realm of opinion Hitler could never have done what he did. the comparison might seem over the top but after all wasn't he just some loser ex artist that no one took seriously initially? all injustice starts in a very small and seemingly inconsequential way. but you can never know what will catch fire where. if people had stood up en masse it would have given other people the courage to stand up as well. even Jews thought if they ignored it it would go away because what he was saying was just so illogical and irrational and over the top. even they thought the German people incapable of allowing those things to happen to them. they didn't even believe the stories of escapees from Auschwitz. sure it may be one very small guy with a very big mouth but i don't think it's a bad idea for people to stand up against it. i don't think it should be a problem to say that hate does not meet our approval. i'm also thinking about all of the teens as well who might be reading a ton of posts i've seen about this all over the place. adults need to show the way that bullying people in the way that he has is not acceptable. young inexperienced girls especially also need to be shown it's not acceptable to be treated in this way.


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## superodalisque (Sep 26, 2013)

"The biggest deficit that we have in our society and in the world right now is an empathy deficit. We are in great need of people being able to stand in somebody else's shoes and see the world through their eyes" ~Barack Obama


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## tonynyc (Sep 27, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> "The biggest deficit that we have in our society and in the world right now is an empathy deficit. We are in great need of people being able to stand in somebody else's shoes and see the world through their eyes" ~Barack Obama



*Not sure where you are going with this quote as there are many ways to interpret this... "which lens" should we see the world through?" "Sleepless In Austin" OR did you have someone else in mind??????*


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## CurvaceousBBWLover (Sep 27, 2013)

CastingPearls said:


> This guy is a fruitcake, emphasis on the nuts.



You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Casting Pearls again.


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## Dromond (Sep 27, 2013)

He's a fan of Alex Jones. He's gone beyond fruitcake.


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## EMH1701 (Sep 28, 2013)

Does he weigh his potential girlfriends and measure their height before he dates them? The BMI is so unrealistic that someone who is 10 pounds "overweight" now looks skinny.


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## wrestlingguy (Sep 28, 2013)

Up until today, I'd agreed with Vardon Grip that the guy might have been maligned by the article, that used what may have been a private dating profile (as crazy as it was), and felt that it wasn't fair.

*I was wrong.*

Upon investigation, I found the following followup article, where this guy appeared on a tv show to discuss what he's looking for. I'm a firm believer that if a person wants to be an idiot in private, it's unfair to expose them, but when someone seeks out fame for being an idiot, go ahead and open the floodgates of judgment.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/26/sleepless-in-austin-interview-awful_n_3997377.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

Have at him.


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## Dromond (Sep 28, 2013)

Damn, he's a truly loathsome human being.


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## HeavyDuty24 (Sep 28, 2013)

CastingPearls said:


> This guy is a fruitcake, emphasis on the nuts.



And will probably stay single for a very long time lol.


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## superodalisque (Sep 28, 2013)

wrestlingguy said:


> Up until today, I'd agreed with Vardon Grip that the guy might have been maligned by the article, that used what may have been a private dating profile (as crazy as it was), and felt that it wasn't fair.
> 
> *I was wrong.*
> 
> ...




i kind of get what you are saying here but actually he was never in private. he was on a big ol honking public dating site and the site let his profile stay there as if it were okay even though it's very noxious in nearly every way possible. and honestly even if he had said this in private i think any woman he said it to should have the right to say he is an ass--just because he is one.

i'm not saying you're callous against women because i know you. but consider this: why is it okay for a public group of women to be exposed to this? it seems to me that women are asked to take an awful lot. if he were in a bar spouting this stuff women would also be asked to take it. if he insulted a man this way he could easily expect a verbal or literal punch in the mouth and i don't think anybody would say boo about it.


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## tonynyc (Sep 28, 2013)

wrestlingguy said:


> Up until today, I'd agreed with Vardon Grip that the guy might have been maligned by the article, that used what may have been a private dating profile (as crazy as it was), and felt that it wasn't fair.
> 
> *I was wrong.*
> 
> ...



what a f_ asshole must be suffering from the "george zimmerman" syndrome...


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## tankyguy (Sep 28, 2013)

As a guy who has a (much shorter and more positive) list, I don't think having a list is a bad thing. Everyone has standards and preferences. If you don't date smokers, that's you're choice. If a woman checks me off her list because I'm overweight, atheist or a homebody geek, it's for the best because we're probably not compatible and it's nobody's loss.

That said, there are ways to have and enforce a list and not be an asshole about it. Guy was a massive asshole about it.


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## moonvine (Sep 28, 2013)

wrestlingguy said:


> Up until today, I'd agreed with Vardon Grip that the guy might have been maligned by the article, that used what may have been a private dating profile (as crazy as it was), and felt that it wasn't fair.
> 
> *I was wrong.*
> 
> ...




In in my opinion, if a person posts a profile on a public dating site such as OKCupid, they aren't in private anymore. That being said in general I'm not a fan of seek out the horrible okcupid profiles and poke fun at them - but this guy has HIS OWN WEBSITE out on the internet saying things like:

*I like girls that are thin, or with a toned or athletic build. A average build is fine too, just as long as you are not over weight. I will not date a overweight or fat girl.

I like girls that are 130 pounds or less. Of course weight needs to be in proportion to their height, as long as they arent considred overweight, they should be fine.

Being overweight is a total dealbreaker with me.*

and 

*I will not date a Black girl. I dont care if she looks like Halle Berry, I will not ever date a Black girl.

However, I will date any other race, Hispanic, Mexican, Spanish, Russian, Italian, French, European, White, whatever, anything except Black.

And, I do not believe that Whites & Blacks should mix races sexually and have kids together.

I think its ok for Whites & Hispanics. But not Blacks.

I would NEVER, EVER, EVER date a woman if I found out she had EVER been sexually active with a Black man.

That would just be pure filth.*

Then you open yourself up to whatever you get. Again IMHO.

http://www.sleeplessinaustin.com


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## prplecat (Sep 29, 2013)

I thank ALL the gods that I'm old and fat...'cause I'm white and live in Texas. And I'd really hate to think that one of my friends might try and pimp me to this dude for $1500.


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## wrestlingguy (Sep 29, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> i kind of get what you are saying here but actually he was never in private. he was on a big ol honking public dating site and the site let his profile stay there as if it were okay even though it's very noxious in nearly every way possible. and honestly even if he had said this in private i think any woman he said it to should have the right to say he is an ass--just because he is one.
> 
> i'm not saying you're callous against women because i know you. but consider this: why is it okay for a public group of women to be exposed to this? it seems to me that women are asked to take an awful lot. if he were in a bar spouting this stuff women would also be asked to take it. if he insulted a man this way he could easily expect a verbal or literal punch in the mouth and i don't think anybody would say boo about it.



When I said "I was wrong", I assumed that most would get that I thought that this guy's asshattery was more private than I thought. Once I realized that it wasn't, I came back to this forum to admit that my original assessment was an error.

While I don't really mind the additional question about having women exposed to this, as if I was defending it, two questions come to mind:

1. Since Vardon Grip discussed the same thing in his post, why was your question only directed to me, and not him as well?
2. I've posted for years about the things that women in this community have to deal with. I've been at least as vocal (or maybe more vocal) as any other guy in complaining about the things guys do to women under the guise of calling themselves a FA. Should I need to consider anything else, as you suggested?

When someone is already at the edge of the river, is it really necessary to tell them that the water is wet? 

I've long held the feeling that women need to discuss the poor actions of some men in what I consider to be a small community. If you recall, I was a supporter of the Facebook group that was started to do just that. My contention was, if you were a good guy, there would be nothing to worry about, since it would be likely your name wouldn't come up in those conversations. Of course, human nature being what it is, I heard the group for some of the women turned into a more personal vendetta group against some of those good men, and the group lost its value.

That said, it's easy for both genders to misinterpret the words of the opposite gender, especially in what I feel is a sexually charged community. A couple of years ago, after my second wife and I split up, I had a lot of questions about my own feelings about the social part of the fat community, the sincerity of those in it, and whether or not it would be wise for me to remain in it. I reached out to someone who I knew and respected who was coming to one of my NJ events, and asked if I could sit down with them to talk about my feelings separate from the rest of the attendees, since I didn't feel like it would be good to hear that one of the people in charge of the NJ Bash was beginning to dislike the social part of the community.

Evidently the person I spoke with felt like my intentions were less than sincere, and felt "creeped out" enough to not only stay away from that particular NJ Bash, but actually informed my ex that they were creeped out by what was nothing more than a request for some help from who I thought was a friend whose opinions I had always respected (until then). Suffice to say that not only did it hurt my feelings, it also made the situation with the ex just a little worse, leaving me little choice but to remove this person from my Facebook friends list, and avoiding any contact with them going forward, for fear not only of having more discussion misinterpreted, but of having my name thrown into the hat of the "bad guys" being discussed in that Facebook group that I mentioned above.

I found that it was much easier for me to take a hiatus from Dimensions, and the social part of the community in general by the end of 2010. I considered it like this.....if you're playing football, and at the end of every play someone is accusing you of cheating, eventually you're going to pick up your football and go home. That's what I did, on the advice of my therapist, and for me it was the best decision at the time.

I purged my Facebook page of people from the NJ Bash & the fat community that I felt were more interested in the dirt surrounding my split with my ex wife than they were with either one of us, and of people that I felt had agendas other than being friends. 

I began to blog, and as I pointed out things in this community of people that I was witness to that I felt were wrong, I lost more friends, but became more convicted in my feelings, because as these people defriended me on Facebook and other social media, they'd indicate that they were disturbed by what I wrote, or they'd assumed I'd written one of my blogs about them. 

Coming back to post here and other places after several years has shown me that while some of the faces are different, some things are still the same, but that's okay with me, because *I'm* not the same, and I no longer worry about what people think about me. My main purpose for posting again is to continue to spread the Size Acceptance agenda, and advocate HAES, and hopefully contribute some of my experience running size positive events in forum threads where that experience can be of use/value to others.

So, while it's not my intention to make my experience more important than others, the fact remains that my many years here, and the four years as a partner in the NJ Bash might give me insights and experiences that others might find useful.

So, to get back to SuperO's original questions (which I think will also address Moonvine's most recent post)...

1. A guy making those kinds of demands for sux exclusionary criteria, in my opinion is wrong, but if he wants to do so, he should do it privately. 

2. IMO, putting those specific details on a dating website isn't taking it public, and if it stopped there, and a woman, or group of women decided to expose him for this, then yes, I do think that's equally wrong. In the short period of time that I spent on OK Cupid, I came across some equally exclusionary criteria from women, but never felt a need to take their profiles to the public. I just laughed at them, and moved on.

3. When someone decides that they are going to take their racist, sizist, sexist, misogynist attitude to the media to publicize their search for their perfect partner, they've now put themselves in a position to be critiqued by anyone who's now come across it, and they have no one to blame but themselves.


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## EMH1701 (Sep 29, 2013)

moonvine said:


> *I will not date a Black girl. I don’t care if she looks like Halle Berry, I will not ever date a Black girl.
> 
> However, I will date any other race, Hispanic, Mexican, Spanish, Russian, Italian, French, European, White, whatever, anything except Black.
> 
> ...


*

Wow, so he's a racist jerk too? I don't get how people can be like that in this day and age. What if he had to work for someone with a spouse who was African American and had biracial kids? Skin color is one of those things that should not matter. What should matter is if you have an emotional connection with someone. 

Love, unlike human beings, is colorblind.*


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## superodalisque (Sep 29, 2013)

wrestlingguy said:


> When I said "I was wrong", I assumed that most would get that I thought that this guy's asshattery was more private than I thought. Once I realized that it wasn't, I came back to this forum to admit that my original assessment was an error.
> 
> While I don't really mind the additional question about having women exposed to this, as if I was defending it, two questions come to mind:
> 
> ...



it was really a rhetorical question because i couldn't understand why either of you would think it was okay. to be fair i should have addressed it to both. and now i'm addressing it to anybody here who thinks/thought the same. i was actually a little shocked to tel the truth. and that is why i said i know you and i don't think the position came from callousness. i don't know Vardon anywhere near as well. i would like for him to respond to that to. i'm just wondering here the idea came from. i'm just trying to understand not stamp anybody with anything. i just don't/didn't get it and i needed to ask the question so that i could.

i honestly feel like a dating site is public since the profile is exposed to the public and none of them even pretend to be private becasue te would be setting themselves up legally. they may not be the general pubic but it is a public venue where a whole lot of women who didn't ask for it often get exposed to it. 

were you aware that when someone googles you depending on the website your dating profile can come up? any dating sites like POF also have sections where you can basically critique your date and it is available to any POF member--whose membership is free. that is literally public as well. and as far as i know that practice isn't unusual. dating sites also sell your data. 

take a look at this: https://www.privacyrights.org/fs/fs37-online-dating.htm


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## superodalisque (Sep 29, 2013)

it's even worse than your public profile being googled and mods can even publish your actual private messages for public shaming. you can't sue for defamation if it's your actual words and you said it. dating site privacy policies make it clear that they don't guarantee your privacy since any message you share or a profile you post can be shared elsewhere. 

take a look at this article:

*Testing Online Privacy Limits, OKCupid Lets Strangers Read Intimate Messages *- See more at: http://sfpublicpress.org/news/2013-...s-read-intimate-messages#sthash.aa6eAmxq.dpuf

OKCupid’s co-founder Sam Yagan...Yagan pointed out that it would be impossible for social media sites to draft privacy policies that could control where all their content winds up. A Facebook message can be tweeted; an email can be leaked to The New York Times. Any OKCupid profile can crop up in a Google search, if you know the right search terms. Suffice to say that traditional ideas of privacy might be illusory, even on a site that promotes intimacy...
Yagan contends that OKCupid’s moderation system resembles that of many other social networks, and that having citizen moderators doesn’t make the company any more susceptible to lawsuits. *A clause in the company’s terms of service seems to clear the company from liability for protecting any information transmitted through the site, admonishing that all content might be made publicly accessible. *


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## moonvine (Sep 29, 2013)

HAHAHAHA...

*Imaghooost: Given that you admitted to being overweight on your website, do you really think it's fair to require your future girlfriend to be 130lbs or less?
romeorose: I'm like maybe 10 pounds over weight. Yes I think it's perfectly fair. Looks are not everything.*

I think it is cool to have a list of preferences, but the more restrictions you have the more you limit yourself. I have a general preference for men who are not bald but then there's Shemar Moore. And quite frankly I think any woman who would not want to hit that doesn't have a pulse. Then again this guy thinks he is too good for Halle Berry so...


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## indy500tchr (Sep 29, 2013)

I take issue more with the fact that he is a HUGE racist against black people...not just black women...ALL black people according to what he said in his video interview...and in his delusional effed up mind he thinks that he isn't.


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## superodalisque (Sep 29, 2013)

re: Wrestlingguy

i get the backing off from the community part. this is the same reason i don't do much there anymore either. your words and deeds are turned around by a lot of people you talk to and projected in a lot of different ways other than how it was actually intended. no one ever asks you anything directly or honestly they just assume. the sexually charged nature of things are tiresome and makes friendships hard. it's like high school. it's hard when you want to talk like a grown up--just like other grown ups outside of it. the person i'm seeing now like just about all of the men i've ever dated doesn't even know what the community is and has never needed it. i haven't been able to have so much open personal peace freedom and friendship since i've been out of that part of it. i'm so glad i took that step out except to concentrate on the more constructive parts of my life and help fat folk personally where i can close to home or be emotionally supportive in some small way of people who actually do trust me far away and not always have to field second hand rumors, be secretive, asked to keep secrets or constantly field grudges with people i've hardly ever interacted with who seem to put you on the defensive just for being yourself. i'm just not a person for closed communities and i had to realize that. so i'll stick to what i have now where i feel much better and can say pretty much whatever is on my mind without people nearly always thinking the worst. i don't have to secret away feelings i might have and put somebody else's well being ahead of my own and stop asking people i trust for their opinions.


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## gangstadawg (Sep 29, 2013)

well some one made a nice lil parody of ol boy romeo rose

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1NaEZeyJ-k&feature=youtu.be


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## vardon_grip (Oct 1, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> it was really a rhetorical question because i couldn't understand why either of you would think it was okay. to be fair i should have addressed it to both. and now i'm addressing it to anybody here who thinks/thought the same. i was actually a little shocked to tel the truth. and that is why i said i know you and i don't think the position came from callousness. i don't know Vardon anywhere near as well. i would like for him to respond to that to. i'm just wondering here the idea came from. i'm just trying to understand not stamp anybody with anything. i just don't/didn't get it and i needed to ask the question so that i could.
> 
> i honestly feel like a dating site is public since the profile is exposed to the public and none of them even pretend to be private becasue te would be setting themselves up legally. they may not be the general pubic but it is a public venue where a whole lot of women who didn't ask for it often get exposed to it.
> 
> ...



Based on the original post, I wouldn't change much of what I wrote. It turns out Laura Beck's blog entry lacks a good deal of research.

IF we are to believe that, "We like what we like." and "This is my preference..." 
...a person can say, "I will not date an Asian person. Not even if they were Lucy Liu and Maggie Q rolled into one." 
There is nothing prejudicial in that statement. Nothing was said about _why_ Asians won't ever be considered for dating. 
Same thing with FA's that say, "I will only date women who are 428 lbs. and pear shaped." 
Same thing with BBWs and SSBBWs that say, "I will not date a fat man." 
Same thing with SIA. 
IF SIA's statements are racist or prejudiced, based only on the statements he made that were highlighted by Laura Beck, then there are a lot of men and women here (and all over the country) that are just as racist/prejudiced as SIA. 
Most people commented on the same information that I did. How much of themselves did they put into what Laura Beck and SIA wrote? Does a person who does not surround themselves with or deals with a lot of racism and/or prejudice NOT look for it as much as someone who is surrounded by racism/prejudice? (Or is directly involved in both?)

SIA was an easy target. He made statements that most people would easily find inflammatory. What Ms. Beck wrote was a baby easy slam dunk on a kiddie height basketball playset. He practically asked to be ridiculed. That still doesn't make it right to do. I don't think that having an online presence automatically means that you are a public person or you are pushing/promoting your beliefs on the general public.


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## waldo (Oct 1, 2013)

vardon_grip said:


> Based on the original post, I wouldn't change much of what I wrote. It turns out Laura Beck's blog entry lacks a good deal of research.
> 
> IF we are to believe that, "We like what we like." and "This is my preference..."
> ...a person can say, "I will not date an Asian person."
> ...




I guess you could sum it up as public 'flogging' of this wretched, pathetic fool falls under the category of two wrongs don't make a right. Furthermore, better to ignore him than give him attention and a platform from which to spout his demented beliefs. i.e. he likely wouldn't have gotten the TV appearance wrestlingguy mentioned without all the online attention brought to his profile/website


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## moonvine (Oct 1, 2013)

vardon_grip said:


> Based on the original post, I wouldn't change much of what I wrote. It turns out Laura Beck's blog entry lacks a good deal of research.
> 
> IF we are to believe that, "We like what we like." and "This is my preference..."
> ...a person can say, "I will not date an Asian person. Not even if they were Lucy Liu and Maggie Q rolled into one."
> ...



A person can say anything, but if they say "I would never consider dating a person who had ever been intimate with an Asian because that would just be pure filth" I think the majority would agree that that is racist. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

If BBWs and SSBBWS say that men who are fat look like monkeys, apes, and to have sex with them would be like bestiality I'd have issues with that as well. 

And I think making a website and putting your racist, homophobic, and misogynist views out there makes you a public persona and opens you to whatever, so we will have to agree to disagree on that.


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## Dromond (Oct 1, 2013)

What amuses me most about this whole discussion is the thought that even though you put something up on the Internet (effectively a gigantic billboard along the highway) you're still have a right to privacy.

Um, newsflash. The Internet is a public space. Whenever you post something, you're a public presence with all the advantages and disadvantages that come with being a public presence. Just because you're not a celebrity does not mean you are exempt from public scrutiny. You publish it, you gotta own it. For better or worse.


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## love handles (Oct 1, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> will anything ever change if people ignore it when others spout sizeism , racism, sexism or any other ism, which is what this man has done. if people let it go then it's as though we are agreeing. people want to make it clear they do not agree--which i find encouraging. after all he has no problem judging other people. he is actually beyond the pale when it comes to that. why should other people have a problem judging him?
> ]



If you wrote that you weren't interested in females sexually would that make you homophobic? 
Maybe you wouldn't mention it and get inundated with female admirers which you would have to needlessly sift through knowing you could have cut to the chase and said you weren't gay. 
I just wonder how seemingly solid 'sexuality' has to be before we can say what we don't and do want. Where is the line where stating your sexuality borders on bigotry. 
From what I read the guy sounds like a twat..but I don't know If I would pull him up. Better for Twats like him to be out in the open I think!


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## moonvine (Oct 1, 2013)

love handles said:


> If you wrote that you weren't interested in females sexually would that make you homophobic?
> Maybe you wouldn't mention it and get inundated with female admirers which you would have to needlessly sift through knowing you could have cut to the chase and said you weren't gay.
> I just wonder how seemingly solid 'sexuality' has to be before we can say what we don't and do want. Where is the line where stating your sexuality borders on bigotry.
> From what I read the guy sounds like a twat..but I don't know If I would pull him up. Better for Twats like him to be out in the open I think!



One of these things is not like the other:

1. _I am straight._



2. _I also do not support homosexuality. I think its disgusting, and morally wrong. I think its the trait of a defective human being.

I am old fashioned. I am conservative. I believe men should be men, and women should be women. God made Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve.

Furthermore, I do not believe homosexuals should be allowed to teach in schools or hold any type of job in which they have any type of interactions with children in which they could leave a false impression that homosexuality is ok on their young minds._

I'm #1.


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## moonvine (Oct 1, 2013)

Dromond said:


> What amuses me most about this whole discussion is the thought that even though you put something up on the Internet (effectively a gigantic billboard along the highway) you're still have a right to privacy.
> 
> Um, newsflash. The Internet is a public space. Whenever you post something, you're a public presence with all the advantages and disadvantages that come with being a public presence. Just because you're not a celebrity does not mean you are exempt from public scrutiny. You publish it, you gotta own it. For better or worse.



^^^^^^^^^This.


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## superodalisque (Oct 1, 2013)

vardon_grip said:


> Based on the original post, I wouldn't change much of what I wrote. It turns out Laura Beck's blog entry lacks a good deal of research.
> 
> IF we are to believe that, "We like what we like." and "This is my preference..."
> ...a person can say, "I will not date an Asian person. Not even if they were Lucy Liu and Maggie Q rolled into one."
> ...



i don't agree but i understand where you are coming from and i agree with a lot of what you said. and you are right about the hypocrisy. i whence whenever someone tries to describe how they are attracted to fat women be down grading thin ones. 

i think it's fine to have ideals too. but i think it's better to have them without going into long insulting detail about everyone else.

i don't like it when fat women say they won't date a fat man either or won't give them anywhere near the chance or respect they expect. i don't like how fat men get treated at dances and the things said about them at all. i also don't like how they are ignored when they complain about how they get treated.

however i don't think this n particular is a private venue. it's a public profile that can even be googled and has no privacy protections under the by laws of the site or any other laws. people are exposed to it who don't want to view that kind of thing. this is why strangers got their hands on it and angrily blogged about it--because it was not private. i think it would be different if he PMed it to someone . even then we all have to realize the internet is not private and there is no site that is going to go to bat for your privacy of spend legal fees to protect you if you decide on your own to do something that could be personally embarrassing that you might not do in your public life because the whole of the internet is public. a profile on a website is no more private than the personals pages of a newspaper. all you have to go is buy the newspaper and turn to that page. same here.


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## superodalisque (Oct 1, 2013)

love handles said:


> If you wrote that you weren't interested in females sexually would that make you homophobic?
> Maybe you wouldn't mention it and get inundated with female admirers which you would have to needlessly sift through knowing you could have cut to the chase and said you weren't gay.
> I just wonder how seemingly solid 'sexuality' has to be before we can say what we don't and do want. Where is the line where stating your sexuality borders on bigotry.
> From what I read the guy sounds like a twat..but I don't know If I would pull him up. Better for Twats like him to be out in the open I think!



all the man had to do is describe what he did want in a woman without trying to degrade everyone else. that is all anybody has to do. it could have been so very simple. thousands of people manage it all of the time.

i don't mind that he outed himself either. but i also don't mind if he gets roasted.


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## love handles (Oct 2, 2013)

moonvine said:


> One of these things is not like the other:
> 
> 1. _I am straight._
> 
> ...


I think most people think it's ok to say 'I don't date women' too. It's just a preference/sexuality, call it what you will. The statement doesn't have to be in the affirmative because the category of 'women' isn't seen as negative. To say you are not attracted to women is seen to be 'fair enough' and the way you are made. This makes me think that people think body preference/ skin colour preference is more 'nurture' and gender sexuality is more 'nature'. Though in general I realise that is a false dichotomy. 
In fairness the guy wasn't as brutal about fat women and didn't go into the reasons he wouldn't date them unlike in your homophobic person impression.


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## love handles (Oct 2, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> all the man had to do is describe what he did want in a woman without trying to degrade everyone else. that is all anybody has to do. it could have been so very simple. thousands of people manage it all of the time.
> 
> i don't mind that he outed himself either. but i also don't mind if he gets roasted.


Yes I agree. It would have been easier to state what he was looking for. In saying that gears in my brain start to grind when someone says '..looking for a Caucasian female'. I instantly think 'hmm they must be racist'. *I think this is a knee jerk reaction on my part btw because it's probably not always the case' 
Reading the way he wrote I wondered if perhaps he was on the Autistic spectrum. That might explain his bluntness. It would be interesting to find that out.


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## love handles (Oct 2, 2013)

I changed my mind. It wouldn't be interesting. I couldn't care less about the guy!


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## moonvine (Oct 2, 2013)

love handles said:


> In fairness the guy wasn't as brutal about fat women and didn't go into the reasons he wouldn't date them unlike in your homophobic person impression.



That was not an impression. That is a quote from SIA website.


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## love handles (Oct 2, 2013)

moonvine said:


> That was not an impression. That is a quote from SIA website.


My point was that it's not comparable. These are reasons for not liking gay people. The guy mentioned in the OP just makes a statement that he doesn't want to be with a fat women. There are no reasons given as to why he doesn't want to be. He might be negative but I don't think he is particularly nasty. Most people might focus on what they do want.

Also I have no idea what SIA website is?


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## moonvine (Oct 2, 2013)

love handles said:


> My point was that it's not comparable. These are reasons for not liking gay people. The guy mentioned in the OP just makes a statement that he doesn't want to be with a fat women. There are no reasons given as to why he doesn't want to be. He might be negative but I don't think he is particularly nasty. Most people might focus on what they do want.
> 
> Also I have no idea what SIA website is?



This guy (Romeo Rose) has a website called "Sleepless in Austin" (SIA for short) Previously he had a website called "Alone in Austin." Go figure. 

_I want the girl to be attractive.


I like girls that are thin, or with a toned or athletic build. A average build is fine too, just as long as you are not over weight. I will not date a overweight or fat girl.

I like girls that are 130 pounds or less. Of course weight needs to be in proportion to their height, as long as they aren’t considred overweight, they should be fine.

Being overweight is a total dealbreaker with me._

I guess it isn't as nasty as the homosexual comments, although in the HuffPo interview upthread he says "overweight" people are "visually repulsive" and the interviewer happens to be a small size BBW...

_Stevie Ray Vaughan’s brother Jimmie Vaughan once banned me from ever coming into Antones, he refused to play if I was in the audience, I don’t know if the ban is still in place because I always liked Nuno’s club better before it closed, but as you can see I can be quite a colorful & contraversial character at times obvisouly! Hahaha!!!



_

Gee, I wonder why.


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## superodalisque (Oct 2, 2013)

love handles said:


> Yes I agree. It would have been easier to state what he was looking for. In saying that gears in my brain start to grind when someone says '..looking for a Caucasian female'. I instantly think 'hmm they must be racist'. *I think this is a knee jerk reaction on my part btw because it's probably not always the case'
> Reading the way he wrote I wondered if perhaps he was on the Autistic spectrum. That might explain his bluntness. It would be interesting to find that out.



if someone is looking for a caucasian female it doesn''t make me horrible. it just means that caucasian females are what they are attracted to. no one should ever expect everyone to be attracted to them but what they should expect is some level of respect. this was an act of disrespect.

actually it should not be so hard for people to believe there are just jerks out there. i'm tired of the "i'm mental" excuse. after all he was lucid enough to make exceptions for himself. he knows the difference between right and wrong but he doesn't care. i think he is more of a narcissist than anything else. what he wrote sounds like textbook.


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## waldo (Oct 3, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> if someone is looking for a caucasian female it doesn''t make me horrible. it just means that caucasian females are what they are attracted to. no one should ever expect everyone to be attracted to them but what they should expect is some level of respect. this was an act of disrespect.
> 
> actually it should not be so hard for people to believe there are just jerks out there. i'm tired of the "i'm mental" excuse. after all he was lucid enough to make exceptions for himself. he knows the difference between right and wrong but he doesn't care. i think he is more of a narcissist than anything else. what he wrote sounds like textbook.



I agree this is a case of extreme narcissism combined with a total lack of decorum. Something no-one has mentioned yet in this thread (I think) is he claims to have lived with a woman for 11 years. One has to wonder what kind of person she is, and I hope she is getting the counseling she needs to get over the extensive exposure to this vile creature. Of course there is the possibility she is just as much of a bastard as he is


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## CurvaceousBBWLover (Oct 3, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> all the man had to do is describe what he did want in a woman without trying to degrade everyone else. that is all anybody has to do. it could have been so very simple. thousands of people manage it all of the time.
> 
> i don't mind that he outed himself either. but i also don't mind if he gets roasted.



It would have been better if he had said, " I want an attractive, skinny woman who is white, Mexican or Asian." 

Going off onto the tangents about fatness, black people, and white women who date/sleep with black men was unnecessary. I respect the man for having his views, however abominable they are. He only says what a lot of people in this country still think. Frankly, the ladies at Huffingtonpost and colorlines.com did him a disservice by publishing news about his website. Lots of people don't date interracially or date fat people; that is a choice. Giving him the forum to spout his ignorance was bad judgment. Besides, I am offended by his language but not surprised.


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## Diana_Prince245 (Oct 3, 2013)

waldo said:


> I agree this is a case of extreme narcissism combined with a total lack of decorum. Something no-one has mentioned yet in this thread (I think) is he claims to have lived with a woman for 11 years. One has to wonder what kind of person she is, and I hope she is getting the counseling she needs to get over the extensive exposure to this vile creature. Of course there is the possibility she is just as much of a bastard as he is



If you read through the comments, you'll find a link to the restraining order she had against him.


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## love handles (Oct 3, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> actually it should not be so hard for people to believe there are just jerks out there. i'm tired of the "i'm mental" excuse. after all he was lucid enough to make exceptions for himself. he knows the difference between right and wrong but he doesn't care. i think he is more of a narcissist than anything else. what he wrote sounds like textbook.



Calling him a narcissist is saying he has a mental disorder too though. The way he writes is also texbook for someone with Aspergers: not understanding how and why statements can carry underlying emotional weight, making very precise lists. 
I ended up reading a bit of his site SIA and he says he is not racist just not attracted to black women. The way he writes is very black and white and he doesn't seem to really understand why what he said was wrong. You would think someone with NPD would be a LOT more sneaky that that. They would pretend they loved everyone and would find power in picking and probably get off on the fact that more people were replying to them. *In saying that - perhaps the whole thrill would be to be a total a-hole with demands of perfection. The woman who replies to this is probably someone who a person with NPD would find very interesting! So you may be right about that.*


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## superodalisque (Oct 3, 2013)

love handles said:


> Calling him a narcissist is saying he has a mental disorder too though. The way he writes is also texbook for someone with Aspergers: not understanding how and why statements can carry underlying emotional weight, making very precise lists.
> I ended up reading a bit of his site SIA and he says he is not racist just not attracted to black women. The way he writes is very black and white and he doesn't seem to really understand why what he said was wrong. You would think someone with NPD would be a LOT more sneaky that that. They would pretend they loved everyone and would find power in picking and probably get off on the fact that more people were replying to them. *In saying that - perhaps the whole thrill would be to be a total a-hole with demands of perfection. The woman who replies to this is probably someone who a person with NPD would find very interesting! So you may be right about that.*



narcissism isn't a mental illness or a mental disorder. it is a personality disorder. a person with a personality disorder can make lucid choices if they want to. people with mental disorders and mental illnesses sometimes cannot.

lots of people say they aren't a racist but then go on to spout lots of racist statements. his qualifier does not absolve him. i think he is sneaky, because he is playing a very savvy game in the media. how many people do you know who have autism or aspergers and seek out media attention? one trick lots of narcissists use these days is to try to hide their narcissism behind some type of mental issue that's either very mild, controllable or that they don't actually have so that their behaviors permitted. i have quite a few friends with aspergers. even though they often make mistakes in communications, most often in non verbal communication, they do understand the impact of what they say to people when it is voiced to them. if you say, that was rude or mean they get that -- and once it's explained to them they try not to repeat it . i don't think this is aspergers or autism. i think it narcissism because he applies one set of feelings to himself but not others. people with autism and aspergers do not lack empathy. people with aspergers understand when they are insensitive perfectly well when they are told:

As a pervasive developmental disorder, Asperger syndrome is distinguished by a pattern of symptoms rather than a single symptom. It is characterized by qualitative impairment in social interaction, by stereotyped and restricted patterns of behavior, activities and interests, and *by no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or general delay in language*.[28] Intense preoccupation with a narrow subject, one-sided verbosity, restricted prosody, and physical clumsiness are typical of the condition, but are not required for diagnosis.[8]


Symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder
In order for a person to be diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) they must meet five or more of the following symptoms:

Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love

Believes that he or she is “special” and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
Requires excessive admiration
Has a very strong sense of entitlement, e.g., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
Is exploitative of others, e.g., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
Lacks empathy, e.g., is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
Regularly shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes


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## moonvine (Oct 3, 2013)

waldo said:


> I agree this is a case of extreme narcissism combined with a total lack of decorum. Something no-one has mentioned yet in this thread (I think) is he claims to have lived with a woman for 11 years. One has to wonder what kind of person she is, and I hope she is getting the counseling she needs to get over the extensive exposure to this vile creature. Of course there is the possibility she is just as much of a bastard as he is



He hurt and killed her animals and she got a restraining order. That's way beyond a creep with a bad website. That's really evil.


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## love handles (Oct 4, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> narcissism isn't a mental illness or a mental disorder. it is a personality disorder. a person with a personality disorder can make lucid choices if they want to. people with mental disorders and mental illnesses sometimes cannot.



Something can be a personality disorder and a mental disorder at the same time. 
Everything from being 'Bi-polar' to being a sociopath is a mental disorder, in that it manifests itself mentally and is disordered. *It's semantics really as it's an umbrella term* There are a lot of Similar traits in psychopaths and Narcissists and actually they have less control over their behaviour than they would like to think. 
I know a lot of people who have 'mental illnesses' ranging from anxiety to depression and all of them are perfectly lucid only in severe cases of depression have I seen people become unable to make lucid choices. 

You said you were tired of the "i'm mental" excuse". It's not him who is saying it. The reason it's a good idea to know if someone is indeed a narcissist is because you might want to avoid them like the plague so it's useful information to have. 
Also I said I thought from the way he wrote his ad he might have Aspergers. I don't think people on the spectrum are 'Mental' and I don't think it's 'An excuse' but it is good to know if they are because you can make allowances (If you want to). 
After reading more about the guy I think 'creepy weirdo' just about covers it.
Just because Creepy weirdo is not in the DSM V doesn't mean you shouldn't avoid him like the plague!


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## superodalisque (Oct 5, 2013)

love handles said:


> Something can be a personality disorder and a mental disorder at the same time.
> Everything from being 'Bi-polar' to being a sociopath is a mental disorder, in that it manifests itself mentally and is disordered. *It's semantics really as it's an umbrella term* There are a lot of Similar traits in psychopaths and Narcissists and actually they have less control over their behaviour than they would like to think.
> I know a lot of people who have 'mental illnesses' ranging from anxiety to depression and all of them are perfectly lucid only in severe cases of depression have I seen people become unable to make lucid choices.
> 
> ...



there is some debate but many have long thought there is a very big difference since a person with a personality disorder has the ability to control his actions but chooses not to. i think that in and of itself is very important. in terms of ethics intention is everything:

*The distinction between personality disorder and mental illness
R. E. KENDELL, FRSE*
The British Journal of Psychiatry (2002)
180: 110-115
doi: 10.1192/bjp.180.2.110

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/180/2/110.full

Implications of the term &#8216;personality disorder’
The term &#8216;psychopathic’ was coined by the German psychiatrist Koch in 1891, and he said firmly that &#8216;even in the bad cases the irregularities do not amount to mental disorder’ (Lewis, 1974). What Koch meant by mental disorder, however, was largely restricted to insanity and idiocy, and his concept of &#8216;psychopathic inferiorities’ embraced most non-psychotic mental illness as well as what we now call personality disorder or psychopathy. Even so, Kurt Schneider subsequently argued that* personality disorders are simply &#8216;abnormal varieties of sane psychic life’ *(Schneider, 1950), and therefore of little concern to psychiatrists, a view that is still influential in Germany today.

Many — perhaps most — *contemporary British psychiatrists seem not to regard personality disorders as illnesses.* Certainly, it is commonplace for a diagnosis of personality disorder to be used to justify a decision not to admit someone to a psychiatric ward, or even to accept them for treatment — a practice that understandably puzzles and irritates the staff of accident and emergency departments, general practitioners and probation officers, who find themselves left to cope as best they can with extremely difficult, frustrating people without any psychiatric assistance. The reasons for this attitude were explored by Lewis & Appleby (1988). Using ratings of case vignettes by 240 experienced psychiatrists, they showed that* suicide attempts and other behaviours by patients previously diagnosed as having personality disorders were commonly regarded as manipulative and under voluntary control rather than the result of illness,* *and that the patients themselves were generally regarded as irritating, attention-seeking, difficult to manage and unlikely to comply with advice or treatment.*

it's unfair to the authentically mentally ill to put them in this category. they do not cause people problems purposefully and they are much less dangerous. people with aspbergers autism are not prone to violence or just being psychologically abusive in such a devious way. comparing depression and bipolarity and even schizophrenia with the dangerous nature of a personality disorder is really waaay beyond the pale when it comes to the potential for hurting people or being an exploiter.


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## love handles (Oct 6, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> Implications of the term personality disorder
> The term psychopathic was coined by the German psychiatrist Koch in 1891, and he said firmly that even in the bad cases the irregularities do not amount to mental disorder (Lewis, 1974). What Koch meant by mental disorder, however, was largely restricted to insanity and idiocy, and his concept of psychopathic inferiorities embraced most non-psychotic mental illness as well as what we now call personality disorder or psychopathy. Even so, Kurt Schneider subsequently argued that* personality disorders are simply abnormal varieties of sane psychic life *(Schneider, 1950), and therefore of little concern to psychiatrists, a view that is still influential in Germany today.
> 
> Many  perhaps most  *contemporary British psychiatrists seem not to regard personality disorders as illnesses.* Certainly, it is commonplace for a diagnosis of personality disorder to be used to justify a decision not to admit someone to a psychiatric ward, or even to accept them for treatment  a practice that understandably puzzles and irritates the staff of accident and emergency departments, general practitioners and probation officers, who find themselves left to cope as best they can with extremely difficult, frustrating people without any psychiatric assistance. The reasons for this attitude were explored by Lewis & Appleby (1988). Using ratings of case vignettes by 240 experienced psychiatrists, they showed that* suicide attempts and other behaviours by patients previously diagnosed as having personality disorders were commonly regarded as manipulative and under voluntary control rather than the result of illness,* *and that the patients themselves were generally regarded as irritating, attention-seeking, difficult to manage and unlikely to comply with advice or treatment.*[/COLOR]


You are citing reference to what psychiatrists had to say from the 50's through the 70's?! In that case homosexuality was a 'mental illness' too!!. Anyway I didn't say NPD was an 'Illness' I said it was a disorder. Two separate things. 
If you are interested there are a lot more up to date studies on both Autism and NPD that you can google. 
Honestly I don't care whether this guy is ill, disordered or just a dick. I wouldn't date him and I hope no one else would either!


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## superodalisque (Oct 6, 2013)

love handles said:


> You are citing reference to what psychiatrists had to say from the 50's through the 70's?! In that case homosexuality was a 'mental illness' too!!. Anyway I didn't say NPD was an 'Illness' I said it was a disorder. Two separate things.
> If you are interested there are a lot more up to date studies on both Autism and NPD that you can google.
> Honestly I don't care whether this guy is ill, disordered or just a dick. I wouldn't date him and I hope no one else would either!



if you had not conveniently cropped the top of my post to fit your position you'd see the article i excerpted from was published in 2002 and goes on to reference how many later psychologists and psychiatrists have the same view today even though there is some disagreement over terms they is no disagreement about how the two items present inpatients. he does not present like someone with autism spectrum disorders like asbergers. it's unfair to stigmatize people with a mental disorder with a personality disorder since there are proven boimedical links to mental disorders that personality disorders lack. this guy probably doesn't have a mental disorder but more likely a personality disorder. i have friends who are autistic and have asbergers etc...and are absolutely nothing like this guy. they often are nice kind people even if socially awkward. so i find your insistence that they are the same insulting to the people i know. so don't go around confusing the two.

Unlike the liar and the honest person, the bullshitters eyes are not on the facts at all; facts are unimportant only to the extent that they help them to get away with it. Given this, bullshit is the greater enemy of the truth than lies are."

Harry Frankfurt
On Bullshit


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## Lamia (Oct 6, 2013)

I read his profile and I find it disturbing that there is this entire trend of attacking people when their ideas differ from yours. I personally think he's an idiot, but I do not feel that gives me the right to attack him and shame him. 
If he was in a position of power like making political decisions or creating legislature I can see where his racism and homo-phobic comments would be concerning. 
He's just some dude and if an asteroid fell on him tomorrow and squashed him like a bug how would that affect any of us, other than talking about some guy who got smashed. So if his death wouldn't affect me why would his opinion be important?
This is pretty much how I navigate the world. People offer their opinions and the only way in which I value those opinions is if they are friends or family or a lawmaker or someone in a position to affect me by those opinions. 
Some random asshole calling me fat etc has no affect because their opinion, much like their existence is irrelevant to me. 
He lays it all out in his profile and anyone who finds him repellant can easily avoid contact with him. I find this very helpful actually. Some people hide their stupidity until you've wasted a couple of dates on them. I wish more people would be honest about their beliefs and desires in this way so you make an informed decision on whether to get involved with them.


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## love handles (Oct 7, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> if you had not conveniently cropped the top of my post to fit your position you'd see the article i excerpted from was published in 2002 and goes on to reference how many later psychologists and psychiatrists have the same view today even though there is some disagreement over terms they is no disagreement about how the two items present inpatients. he does not present like someone with autism spectrum disorders like asbergers. it's unfair to stigmatize people with a mental disorder with a personality disorder since there are proven boimedical links to mental disorders that personality disorders lack. this guy probably doesn't have a mental disorder but more likely a personality disorder. i have friends who are autistic and have asbergers etc...and are absolutely nothing like this guy. they often are nice kind people even if socially awkward. so i find your insistence that they are the same insulting to the people i know. so don't go around confusing the two.
> 
> Unlike the liar and the honest person, the bullshitters eyes are not on the facts at all; facts are unimportant only to the extent that they help them to get away with it. Given this, bullshit is the greater enemy of the truth than lies are."
> 
> ...


It wasn't conveniently cropped. The studies they are talking about are from the 50's through the 70's. Most people in the scientific community totally dismiss most of what the psychiatric world had to say at that point. Matter of fact most people dismiss what psychiatrists have to say these days. 
I have friends who have Aspergers too. I didn't insist people with Aspergers and NPD are the same. I said initially it seemed like he had Aspergers by the way he was very blunt. You were the one who then said 'I'm tired of the 'I'm mental' excuse'. I found that totally insulting to people with ASD -Which is Autistic spectrum disorder (See it's a 'disorder' too). What I actually said when you said you thought he had NPD was that it was a mental disorder too because it is: It's not physical and it is a disorder. So by saying he had NPD you were blaming it on the 'I'm mental excuse too'. 
What about people with 'Borderline Personality disorder'? Which is actually a pretty serious mental illness which not only affects the people who suffer from it but those around them? Technically It too is a 'Personality disorder' but that doesn't mean it doesn't cause the people who have it to experience traumatic episodes or affect other people because of their symptoms. 
Psychopathy is caused by biomedical reasons. You think that makes it ok for psychopaths to get a free pass and be allowed to say stuff like that guy did. A lot of the things on the Sociopathic checklist are the same as the one for NPD actually. 
I found your bullshit quote passive aggressive and childish and 
this to and fro over semantics between you and I is I feel taking the thread way off track so I am bowing out now.


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## wrestlingguy (Oct 7, 2013)

Lamia said:


> I read his profile and I find it disturbing that there is this entire trend of attacking people when their ideas differ from yours. I personally think he's an idiot, but I do not feel that gives me the right to attack him and shame him.
> If he was in a position of power like making political decisions or creating legislature I can see where his racism and homo-phobic comments would be concerning.
> He's just some dude and if an asteroid fell on him tomorrow and squashed him like a bug how would that affect any of us, other than talking about some guy who got smashed. So if his death wouldn't affect me why would his opinion be important?
> This is pretty much how I navigate the world. People offer their opinions and the only way in which I value those opinions is if they are friends or family or a lawmaker or someone in a position to affect me by those opinions.
> ...



But not everyone navigates the world the same way. There are social mores and codes of conduct that our society generally subscribes to, and when someone violates those mores, or the core values of a society, the people are going to react.

He has freedom of speech to be an idiot. Don't you think that the people he's offended have the right to speak back? No one is saying that YOU should be the one doing it, but in light of the fact that most of those in the thread don't share your thinking, it's their right to act & be offended by someone who's using the media to insult and offend the opposite sex, other ethnic groups, and fat people?


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## CastingPearls (Oct 7, 2013)

I just saw a couple of TV interviews he did and he regrets and retracts much of what he said and chalks it up to making a rough list while overtired. 

He still says he's not racist (although it's not one of the things that's now negotiable) and that the list hurt more than helped him. 

I do agree with Lamia on one point (at least) that people like him kind of do us a favor by outing themselves so we know to either avoid or interact.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 7, 2013)

> I will not date a selfish woman. I do not like selfish women at all.



This made me laugh



> I prefer a woman that has never had children, because having kids does ruin a womans body often times. They end up with stretch marks. And also sometimes it makes their vagina looser, and I don’t care how many kegel exercises a woman does, after she has 2 or 3 eight to ten pound babies, you can’t tell me it’s going to be 100% as tight as it ever was! Plus, what’s even worse than all of that, is sometimes during childbirth the lips/vulva of a woman get torn and they never look the same as the did originally even after they heal, that’s why some women even get cosmetic reconstructive surgery to their vulvas after childbirth to try and regain their original appearance.
> 
> *Now I’m not saying having had a kid or two is a for sure dealbreaker for me, but it’s a case by case basi*s, and I prefer a woman that’s never had kids if possible. My ex-girlfriend that I was with for Eleven years never had kids, she couldn’t because of a hysterectomy at a young age.



So what does case by case basis mean? He wants to see a woman's vulva and if it was ripped in childbirth before he will be her Prince?



> I like to get a lot of attention in a relationship, and I like to give it as well.



He's needy? Wow, who would have guessed it?


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## Lamia (Oct 7, 2013)

wrestlingguy said:


> But not everyone navigates the world the same way. There are social mores and codes of conduct that our society generally subscribes to, and when someone violates those mores, or the core values of a society, the people are going to react.
> 
> He has freedom of speech to be an idiot. Don't you think that the people he's offended have the right to speak back? No one is saying that YOU should be the one doing it, but in light of the fact that most of those in the thread don't share your thinking, it's their right to act & be offended by someone who's using the media to insult and offend the opposite sex, other ethnic groups, and fat people?



Whatever makes them happy I guess.


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