# I'm the guy who hates the hot guy thread, let's talk about it here



## Carl1h

This is a continuation from a discussion in this thread:
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42051

Moved it here so that the discussion could continue without derailing the other thread. I'm referencing my post here and the general discussion that followed, also.
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=787671&postcount=48

We return to our discussion, in progress...



saucywench said:


> You are a BHM and I am a BBW. Here we are, discussing a topic--just one human being to another, like regular folks do, without any regard to whether each of us finds the other attractive.



I agree there, who we find attractive isn't an issue, how we treat is other is the issue.



Carl1h said:


> But I have to say that a bunch of fat women telling me that as a fat man my feelings are less important than their own doesn't exactly make me feel particularly accepted....





saucywench said:


> Could you point me to where that was said, specifically? I'm not trying to argue with you, I'd like to see it for myself, in print. When I see it, then I could possibly argue for your points, not against them (not that that is my intent, anyway).


No one actually said that, I felt like they had, though. After I posted against that Hot Boy thread there were women from the main boards who I had never seen on the FFA/BHM board come to argue for the existence of the hot boy thread, seemingly so that we could know how wrong we were. Of course there were also women who came to let us know they thought we were right, but overall it did leave me with the feeling that the enforcers had come to visit.



Carl1h said:


> ...if you want the fat guys to post more on the other boards here you should be prepared to accept their opinions without deriding them for feeling threatened.
> 
> Your statement here about that thread is, IMO, an example of how the female majority polices the boards and marginalizes other voices.





saucywench said:


> Huh?
> 
> I had no particular thread in mind when I wrote what I did. I don't keep up with things here in that great of detail, as a rule. I was only speaking of a general sentiment that I sense here in general.



I was the one who started complaining about the hot boy thread, and I thought you mentioned the hot boy thread in your response to my post here because you knew that I had brought it up and still had some axe to grind against me about it. I see that I was wrong about that and that I was being too defensive.



saucywench said:


> If some fat chicks want to nurture a thread about non-BHMs they find attractive, or, conversely, if the BHMs nurture a thread about non-BBWs they find attractive, why should the people who are not included _in that particular thread_ take it so personally, and feel so threatened?





saucywench said:


> It was you who brought up a specific thread. I had to click on the link you provided to know what you were referring to. You know, I want to appreciate the points you're trying to make about how the majority's voice is heard louder and all that stuff, but then you lost me with your accusations. Please explain how I was doing whatever it is you seem to think I was doing. You started a thread, something you said in your OP sparked an interest for me to respond, because I have questions, so I posted...isn't that how this board stuff works?



I didn't bring up the hot boy thread, you brought it up, and you brought up the subject of why people take that thread personally or feel threatened. I would say I feel marginalized by it... threatened seems like a word that is chosen to make someone else sound weak. Whether or not you knew that you were complaining about me, you were in fact complaining about me and I wanted my to bring in my side without hi-jacking the poll thread, the best way I thought I could do that was to link to my original post about it.



Carl1h said:


> If I think that a thread idolizing skinny people as objects of desire is out of place on a fat acceptance site, does that mean I am not welcome?





saucywench said:


> No. Why should it? All it means is that you have an opinion, just as everyone else here. You have a right to feel that your opinion is valid, it doesn't mean that you can or should expect everyone to agree with that opinion. I for one don't have a problem at all with who or what people want to idolize on this site. Personally I feel that (speaking as one person with one opinion about this one thing you have to say...if this is truly how you feel)...





Carl1h said:


> ...a thread idolizing skinny people as objects of desire is out of place on a fat acceptance site...





saucywench said:


> ...is unrealistic, among other things. There. I said it. I took issue with one thing you said. It wasn't a complete devaluement of you as a human being, or you as a BHM, or your attractiveness or desirability or what have you--What does any of that have to do with this one thing you said?
> 
> I don't understand what you want or expect everyone else to do by making such a statement. Fat people aren't the only ones who frequent Dimensions. That's a fact. Fat people are not, by virtue of their being fat, attracted solely to fat people. That's a fact. What would you have Conrad do--issue some sort decree in a booming, biblical pharaoh-type voice, something like, "There Shalt Be No Idolizing of Skinnies in Dimensionsland. It is Done." *commence thunder and lightning* Speaking of Conrad--you know, the guy who created this site, lo those many years ago--have you seen him? He's a skinny dude! And--and--a bunch of folks here, women and men, fat and skinny, think he's attractive! The horrors!


I said before that a thread full of pictures of the FAs here, whatever their size or of the significant others, whatever their size, would (IMO) be perfectly fine, because this is the only place you're going to see that, and the FAs are part of the community (I doubt that any of those hot celebrities are). Is it really so hard to find pictures of hot celebrities that there has to pictures of them, not just everywhere else, but here as well? Am I the only person who sees these sort of places as a refuge of sorts? I don't look at those pictures and see anyone there that looks like me, and yet somehow, I am not supposed to take away the message that people like me aren't hot? The message that because I am fat, I am not hot, is a negative message that I can find most anyplace, I come to places like this to get away from that message. I don't expect fat women to date only fat men, but I do expect fat women to understand the commonality of our problems and that fat men need to have a respite from the criticisms of the outside world, just like fat women do. I don't want Conrad to issue any edict, I want people to behave with consideration toward each other without having to be forced to do it.

But suggesting that people get their hot, skinny celebrity fix somewhere else is just asking too much, I guess.



Carl1h said:


> I think the issue here (and I admit that I am reading between the lines) is: can't you prefer not to date fat guys without people trying to make you feel guilty?





saucywench said:


> I'm not sure I understand what you're asking by the way you've phrased your question. It seems to have something to do with the way you feel when fat women express an appreciation or admiration for a particular body type that just happens to not be your particular body type. Am I close?


What I was unsuccessfully trying to say was that what I got out of the last part of your post was that you were asking whether you couldn't just prefer not to date fat guys without people trying to make you feel guilty. I thought that you were referring to the fact that the poll choice said, "Don't hate me for loving the skinny men!" As I said, I chose that wording because I was trying to be playful. If you were responding to my saying that I've heard from BHMs that they don't go to the main boards because the fat women only like the skinny guys and I heard from BBWs that they don't go to the BHM/FFA board because the fat guys only like the skinny women. I wasn't criticizing, I was just reporting what I had heard. It's not any sillier or wrong one way than it is the other.



saucywench said:


> Were the fat women in that thread that you referenced saying that all fat men were gross? Were they saying that you were gross? I'm confused. If they were doing that in that thread, or anywhere else, I suppose they should be chastized for being so crass; sometimes it is best to keep such opinions to ones' self. But, if you felt hurt or undesirable because some women were expressing and discussing what they find attractive--and they were not dissing you personally or directly (you yourself admitting to reading between the lines there)--I guess the onus is upon you to figure out why you felt that way; it's not anyone else's responsibility. Is it? The same applies to anyone else here (including me) who internalizes such thoughts and feelings over something posted here that is not specifically directed to them or about them.


So, anyone can post whatever they want as long as the don't *explicitly* cross the line? There is never any meaning to what anyone says beyond the precise meaning of every word? That's a nice debate tactic, but it isn't true. I'm fat, I can get hurt and told I am undesirable from almost every person on the planet, you don't think it makes a difference if I also get it here? I'm internalizing issues? The onus is on me? Blame the victim much? Is this the advice you would give a fat *woman* who said that people made her feel ugly because she is fat? 

Don't feel like you have to pull out all your big guns to win this one, the issue of Carl vs. the Hot Boy thread has already been decided and Carl lost.

Yet I am still here.


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## olwen

Carl, I'm not answering for saucy, I'm just answering.

Once upon a time I came across a site oriented towards love of fat women (not this one) and I freaked when I saw some pics of women I didn't think were fat. My honest reaction was, she's barely thick, wtf? She must have an eating disorder. What the hell is she doing here flaunting her skinny ass and why the hell on a site that's supposed to be about loving fat are there guys telling her how effing hot she is???!!! The nerve of those hypocrites. How inappropriate. The gall of that witch. WTF???!!! :::rage rage horror horror sadness rage rage::: After a few days I thought about my violent reaction to such images and I was horrified by my rage and contempt. I didn't want to have such feelings but there they were. 

But then I came here and started reading about the experiences of the women that size and I started to change my mind. That girl had emotional baggage. Turns out she did have an eating disorder. (which is not to say that all girls her size have eating disorders) She was dealing with her own demons. Why should I be angry about that. They're her demons not mine. I realized l was more confident about my bigger body than she was about her smaller body. I should revel in that and leave the anger and contempt behind. I started reading various posts about varying degrees of fat love and then I started to really really let go of that anger. Everyone is entitled to their own. I can't begrudge anyone their own because what they like has a place and a function in the grand scheme of things.

So okay you were pissed about that thread, and you have a right to be, but then comes a time when you have to take responsibility for your own emotions and own up to them recognize them and then learn to let go of the ones that don't help you. Contempt and bitterness, while you are entitled to those feelings, really don't help you. They don't help anybody. It's energy you could be using for something else. What happened to me was I realized I began to walk with more confidence - even more than I thought I had, which turned out to be not as much as I thought because of that bitterness and anger. People pick up on that confidence and I know there are people out there who are going to find me attractive at my size. Those are the people I want to attract and have fun with. The people who try to give me shit about my size now can kiss my big black ass. Those people are not for me. The people who aren't attracted to me and hold no ill will towards me could become my best buddies for all I know. But if I'm angry at them then look what I could be missing out on. 

See what I'm getting at?

My feeling about that thread and others like it? Big whoop. What's for dinner? What does it amount to really in the grand scheme?


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## GWARrior

oh boo hoo

i dont know if youve actually LOOKED at that thread, but the variety of men on it is plenty. All different types of guys. Short, tall, hairy, bald, fat, skinny, young, old.


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## The Orange Mage

The way I see it, if there's a whole subforum for the paysite ladies (whom the FA men here regard as the peak of (SS)BBW hotness) then there shouldn't be a problem with a thread for the other gender's hot fantasies and whatnot.


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## GWARrior

The Orange Mage said:


> The way I see it, if there's a whole subforum for the paysite ladies (whom the FA men here regard as the peak of (SS)BBW hotness) then there shouldn't be a problem with a thread for the other gender's hot fantasies and whatnot.



hells yes.

now excuse me, while I fantasize about Gary Oldman (who looks HOT at any weight!)


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## BothGunsBlazing

Oh and also what doesn't seem to be addressed is that the reason a lot of people choose celebrities and what not is because if people started taking peoples pictures from here and posting them some may feel left out or some may find it creepy in a stalkerish kind of why are you saving my photos and posting them in other threads kind of way. Obviously, not too many celebrities are going to get that feeling from not being posted on the hottie threads. 

As we all know, the fatty celebrity pool ain't that deep. 

Oh and I'd know if it were because when I was younger my only source of "BBW" photos were the look as miserable as possible before photos on the 3am lose weight infomercials.


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## Carl1h

olwen said:


> My feeling about that thread and others like it? Big whoop. What's for dinner? What does it amount to really in the grand scheme?



Yeah, I know Olwen, we already had this discussion. I just didn't want to derail the other thread because I was interested in people talking about what they liked. I don't mind derailing this thread though.

What do you want to talk about? Shall we talk about you? Shall I tell you how smart and well spoken you are? That you have a great sense of humor? I'd tell you that you have dreamy eyes, but that thumb is so small I can't really see them. (Of course the optometrist told me I needed bifocals, so the problem is probably mine, and is also why I could never date a woman who was the size of a Barbie doll.) I do like the plaid underwear, I could see that just fine.


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## Carl1h

BothGunsBlazing said:


> Oh and also what doesn't seem to be addressed is that the reason a lot of people choose celebrities and what not is because if people started taking peoples pictures from here and posting them some may feel left out or some may find it creepy in a stalkerish kind of why are you saving my photos and posting them in other threads kind of way. Obviously, not too many celebrities are going to get that feeling from not being posted on the hottie threads.
> 
> As we all know, the fatty celebrity pool ain't that deep.
> 
> Oh and I'd know if it were because when I was younger my only source of "BBW" photos were the look as miserable as possible before photos on the 3am lose weight infomercials.



That all did come up. We talked about it over on the BHM/FFA board until it was dead. I suggested that guys from the BHM/FFA board should come over and post themselves (to add some meat to the thread while avoiding that creepy stalker thing you mentioned) but it was brought up that it was not a thread for posting yourself, but rather a thread for posting men you thought were hot. It didn't matter, no one wanted to put themselves into that thread.


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## olwen

Ha. yes, we did have that convo, but I just couldn't resist reiterating my point. It was directed at anyone who feels that way too.

Dreamy eyes....wow, I've never thought of my eyes as dreamy, but I'll humbly take that compliment and all the others too. Thank you. I'm totally blushing. You aren't so hard on the eyes yourself.


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## moore2me

Carl1h said:


> This is a continuation from a discussion in this thread:
> http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42051
> 
> Moved it here so that the discussion could continue without derailing the other thread. I'm referencing my post here and the general discussion that followed, also.
> http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=787671&postcount=48
> 
> We return to our discussion, in progress...
> 
> I agree there, who we find attractive isn't an issue, how we treat is other is the issue.
> 
> No one actually said that, I felt like they had, though. After I posted against that Hot Boy thread there were women from the main boards who I had never seen on the FFA/BHM board come to argue for the existence of the hot boy thread, seemingly so that we could know how wrong we were. Of course there were also women who came to let us know they thought we were right, but overall it did leave me with the feeling that the enforcers had come to visit.
> 
> I was the one who started complaining about the hot boy thread, and I thought you mentioned the hot boy thread in your response to my post here because you knew that I had brought it up and still had some axe to grind against me about it. I see that I was wrong about that and that I was being too defensive.
> 
> 
> I didn't bring up the hot boy thread, you brought it up, and you brought up the subject of why people take that thread personally or feel threatened. I would say I feel marginalized by it... threatened seems like a word that is chosen to make someone else sound weak. Whether or not you knew that you were complaining about me, you were in fact complaining about me and I wanted my to bring in my side without hi-jacking the poll thread, the best way I thought I could do that was to link to my original post about it.
> 
> 
> I said before that a thread full of pictures of the FAs here, whatever their size or of the significant others, whatever their size, would (IMO) be perfectly fine, because this is the only place you're going to see that, and the FAs are part of the community (I doubt that any of those hot celebrities are). Is it really so hard to find pictures of hot celebrities that there has to pictures of them, not just everywhere else, but here as well? Am I the only person who sees these sort of places as a refuge of sorts? I don't look at those pictures and see anyone there that looks like me, and yet somehow, I am not supposed to take away the message that people like me aren't hot? The message that because I am fat, I am not hot, is a negative message that I can find most anyplace, I come to places like this to get away from that message.
> *
> Dear Carl, I would like to interject a few comments into your little discussion here. My whole family is fat. Mother. Father (who is now deceased). Two brothers. Husband. Self. Plus a half dozen assorted cousins too. It is the norm in my family to be fat. I am equally attracted to fat men and men that are not fat. But, I feel more comfortable around ones that are fat because that is what I am used to being with.
> 
> When I say I think Brad Pitt is a hot guy, I would not be comfortable around someone who is rail-thin like him even tho, I think he is cute. I prefer the comfort of my hubby or even the harassment and irritability of my younger brother, who has always been my nemesis (we fight like cats and dogs).
> 
> I can't speak for all women, but for myself, my taste in the opposite sex can be compared to an art critic. I appreciate many different types of art. Realism, modern, primitive, renaissance, victorian, and many different formats. It would be completely wrong to say I preferred one type of painting, say Italian Renaissance to romantic works by Wodehouse or Audobon's birds. I admire **them all. They all have their own virtues and glory.*
> 
> I don't expect fat women to date only fat men, but I do expect fat women to understand the commonality of our problems and that fat men need to have a respite from the criticisms of the outside world, just like fat women do. I don't want Conrad to issue any edict, I want people to behave with consideration toward each other without having to be forced to do it.
> 
> But suggesting that people get their hot, skinny celebrity fix somewhere else is just asking too much, I guess.
> 
> *I do understand. I would be fiercely jealous if the tables were reversed without a proper explanation. That's why I am trying to explain. We are not excluding you guys. I for one, would never do that. I have been happily married now for 28 years.*
> 
> 
> What I was unsuccessfully trying to say was that what I got out of the last part of your post was that you were asking whether you couldn't just prefer not to date fat guys without people trying to make you feel guilty. I thought that you were referring to the fact that the poll choice said, "Don't hate me for loving the skinny men!" As I said, I chose that wording because I was trying to be playful. If you were responding to my saying that I've heard from BHMs that they don't go to the main boards because the fat women only like the skinny guys and I heard from BBWs that they don't go to the BHM/FFA board because the fat guys only like the skinny women. I wasn't criticizing, I was just reporting what I had heard. It's not any sillier or wrong one way than it is the other.
> 
> 
> So, anyone can post whatever they want as long as the don't *explicitly* cross the line? There is never any meaning to what anyone says beyond the precise meaning of every word? That's a nice debate tactic, but it isn't true. I'm fat, I can get hurt and told I am undesirable from almost every person on the planet, you don't think it makes a difference if I also get it here? I'm internalizing issues? The onus is on me? Blame the victim much? Is this the advice you would give a fat *woman* who said that people made her feel ugly because she is fat?
> 
> Don't feel like you have to pull out all your big guns to win this one, the issue of Carl vs. the Hot Boy thread has already been decided and Carl lost.
> 
> Yet I am still here.



*So, just letting you know that there are women on this board who do like our fat men as well as the thin ones. The thin ones however are just eye candy. The fat ones are keepers.*


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## steely

GWARrior said:


> hells yes.
> 
> now excuse me, while I fantasize about Gary Oldman (who looks HOT at any weight!)



I thought that was Gary Oldman,nice!


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## steely

More to your post,I love big men.Although I would prefer to watch Vincent D'onofrio at his present size for hours.I can enjoy Gary Oldman as well.Your picture is quite enjoyable as well!


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## cute_obese_girl

I'm an SSBBW and an FFA so maybe I just have the benefits of seeing both sides. However, I'll say I don't understand being upset over the hot boy thread because I don't get upset over the sometime (note: sometime, not as a rule) hot=thin when it comes to FFAs mentality on the BHM board.

Dimensions was created for fat women and the men who love them because society in general does not see us the same way as we are seen here. I think it is saying a lot that a BHM board was also created in recognition that fat men face the same problems in the world.

If you don't want to be reminded that many women find thin men attractive don't venture out of the BHM board, or watch tv, or go outside for that matter. To be honest your dislike of the thread in the non-BHM part of the site makes about as much sense to me as a Red Sox fan going to a game at Yankee Stadium and being appalled that the crowd is rooting for the Yankees :doh:

I'd also like to add that Olwen is a smartypants. You're reasoning is spot on and it is always eloquently stated!

BothGunsBlazing is also right in saying there aren't many BHM celebrities. We had that thread on the BHM board and it died quick because it only took six or eight of us to name them all.


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## Jack Skellington

Carl1h said:


> But suggesting that people get their hot, skinny celebrity fix somewhere else is just asking too much, I guess



I will idolize whomever the hell I want regardless of size. I feel beauty comes in all shapes and sizes and to me that's what acceptance is about. 

Not to mention there are plenty of thin women in the hot girl thread. Many of which posted by BHM btw and you don't see BBWs doing a "I hate the hot girl thread"


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## Carl1h

steely said:


> I thought that was Gary Oldman,nice!



Geez, at first I thought you were talking about Gary Coleman...


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## Carl1h

cute_obese_girl said:


> If you don't want to be reminded that many women find thin men attractive don't venture out of the BHM board, or watch tv, or go outside for that matter. To be honest your dislike of the thread in the non-BHM part of the site makes about as much sense to me as a Red Sox fan going to a game at Yankee Stadium and being appalled that the crowd is rooting for the Yankees



I used to stay on the BHM board, and part of my point is that if people want the fat guys to come out onto the main board then maybe you should be prepared to hear their point of view, not agree, but at least listen.

The idea that I can go to TV and not be reminded that fat=ugly doesn't make any sense to me. I guess I'm on the wrong cable system. Maybe the fat=ugly message isn't as prevalent in the world as I thought. I had gotten the impression that fat women here thought that the outside world was anti fat and that a place like dims where you can hear a fat positive message was a greatly valued thing. I guess I should get out more, apparently the world has changed and I didn't know it. Or maybe you don't so much care where I go, as long as I go away.


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## Carl1h

Jack Skellington said:


> I will idolize whomever the hell I want regardless of size. I feel beauty comes in all shapes and sizes and to me that's what acceptance is about.


You do that, I'm for that 100%. You can sexually gratify yourself however you want as well, but don't be surprised if some people seem to think that there are places where that's ok and places where it isn't.


Jack Skellington said:


> Not to mention there are plenty of thin women in the hot girl thread. Many of which posted by BHM btw and you don't see BBWs doing a "I hate the hot girl thread"


Thanks for bringing that up, I hate that Hot Girl thread too, two wrongs don't make right.


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## Jack Skellington

Carl1h said:


> Or maybe you don't so much care where I go, as long as I go away.



Wow, way to martyr yourself. 

You know, just maybe, if people really want you to leave as you seem to think it probably wouldnt be because you are a BHM. It's because of your self victimizing grand standing. 

Personally, I say stay and enjoy the boards and get to know the people here instead of giving your self a pity party because someone thinks Johnny Depp is cute.



Carl1h said:


> You do that, I'm for that 100%. You can sexually gratify yourself however you want as well,



I said idolize not masturbate you friggin' perv. Sheesh!


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## Renaissance Woman

Wow, bitter much? 

Dude, people like what they like. I don't expect every guy to think I'm hot. I don't expect a majority of guys to think I'm hot. I acknowledge and accept that most people find thinner women sexually attractive and fatter women not so much. I don't blame anybody for not thinking my body type is attractive; nobody chooses what gets their motor running.

In that same vein, I expect that others should have the same attitude, namely, a fat dude shouldn't get all bent out of shape when I don't want to jump his non-bones (phrase stolen from BGB). I'm attracted to thin guys. It's the way I'm wired. There are guys and gals here who are attracted to big guys and big girls. It's the way they're wired. And there are big dudes here who are attracted to skinny women. Again, it's not a matter of choice on their part. Why is this an issue for you? 

The Hot Girl thread was started by BGB solely so you wouldn't feel excluded. And you still chose to be of your own volition. If you're so pissed off about the lack of big guys in the Hot Guy thread, then you need to get Hollywood to cast more fat actors, not try to start some board war over something that's a non-issue.


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## Carl1h

Jack Skellington said:


> Wow, way to martyr yourself.
> 
> You know, just maybe, if people really want you to leave as you seem to think it probably wouldnt be because you are a BHM. It's because of your self victimizing grand standing.
> 
> Personally, I say stay and enjoy the boards and get to know the people here instead of giving your self a pity party because someone thinks Johnny Depp is cute.



I'm trying to address the point of BHMs in general feel comfortable coming to the other boards here. Your point isn't that I should go away because we disagree, you said just the opposite, but she said I should go away, and I wanted to point that out. Go away, isn't really the way to get wider participation.

I'm sorry if my bombastic grandstanding put you off. I didn't realize the simple homespun nature of the rhetoric you're usually used to. 

Wait, are you saying that there are people who don't think Johnny Depp is cute? You understand that I'm not arguing that they aren't cute, or that people can't like whoever they like, right? I'm just saying that with so many sites dedicated to celebrity worship, does it need to be here too?


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## Carl1h

Renaissance Woman said:


> The Hot Girl thread was started by BGB solely so you wouldn't feel excluded. And you still chose to be of your own volition. If you're so pissed off about the lack of big guys in the Hot Guy thread, then you need to get Hollywood to cast more fat actors, not try to start some board war over something that's a non-issue.



I don't understand this thinking. How, if I think that the Hot Boy thread is wrong, am I supposed to see the Hot Girl thread as right? Is that supposed to give me a place to be wrong too, so then I'm not excluded from being wrong? I can go billions of places on the internet and see pictures of women that are deemed by the vast majority to be beautiful, I don't need to do that here. If I want to see pictures of beautiful fat women, my choices are greatly diminished. That's why they are here, that's one reason this place exists, so that guys like BGB aren't stuck with before pictures from weight loss ads. I'm told that outside of the gay sites, the sites for looking at pictures of fat men are almost non-existent. But as I have said, celebrity photo sites aren't that hard to find.


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## 1300 Class

> I'm trying to address the point of BHMs in general feel comfortable coming to the other boards here.


As a fairly hefty fellow myself, I don't see the divide, artificial or not between the BHM board and the rest of the forum (on the former I can probably count my posts on one hand). If I find someone attractive, whatever their body characteristics, I cannot deny it or ignore, and the whole "if you don't prefer people the same size as you your some sort of size traitor" is a load of shit. 



> Wow, bitter much?
> 
> Dude, people like what they like. I don't expect every guy to think I'm hot. I don't expect a majority of guys to think I'm hot. I acknowledge and accept that most people find thinner women sexually attractive and fatter women not so much. I don't blame anybody for not thinking my body type is attractive; nobody chooses what gets their motor running.
> 
> In that same vein, I expect that others should have the same attitude, namely, a fat dude shouldn't get all bent out of shape when I don't want to jump his non-bones (phrase stolen from BGB). I'm attracted to thin guys. It's the way I'm wired. There are guys and gals here who are attracted to big guys and big girls. It's the way they're wired. And there are big dudes here who are attracted to skinny women. Again, it's not a matter of choice on their part. Why is this an issue for you?
> 
> The Hot Girl thread was started by BGB solely so you wouldn't feel excluded. And you still chose to be of your own volition. If you're so pissed off about the lack of big guys in the Hot Guy thread, then you need to get Hollywood to cast more fat actors, not try to start some board war over something that's a non-issue.


+1.


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## Renaissance Woman

Carl1h said:


> I don't understand this thinking. How, if I think that the Hot Boy thread is wrong, am I supposed to see the Hot Girl thread as right? Is that supposed to give me a place to be wrong too, so then I'm not excluded from being wrong? I can go billions of places on the internet and see pictures of women that are deemed by the vast majority to be beautiful, I don't need to do that here. If I want to see pictures of beautiful fat women, my choices are greatly diminished. That's why they are here, that's one reason this place exists, so that guys like BGB aren't stuck with before pictures from weight loss ads. I'm told that outside of the gay sites, the sites for looking at pictures of fat men are almost non-existent. But as I have said, celebrity photo sites aren't that hard to find.


My impression was that you were pissed off about the Hot Boy thread because there weren't a lot of fat dudes on there, not that it was some big moral stand on your part about not depicting thin bodies on Dims.


----------



## stan_der_man

Having looked over this thread (the originating thread as well) I'm trying to grasp the core of what you are saying here Carl... correct me if I'm wrong.

I don't think it is a valid statement to say the BHMs are being singled out (purposely or by happenstance...) or being spoken of in a derisive manner. In some ways I can see your point Carl. Any thread or conversation that is focused on "what is hot" (whether it be male or female) carries the assumption that anything excluded is "not hot". Even if that were the case, I think you will find that men who are extremely thin or short are also not represented as being "hot". This isn't exclusively a BHM issue.

As RenWoman and the others said, people like what they like. Appropriate or inappropriate as these types of threads may be, that is simply human nature and the people posting their preferences in these threads are just a reflection of that. There really is no intentional malice that I can see. Demeaning to those not "represented", perhaps. I used to be very skinny, I often didn't feel appreciated and even overlooked by the females because of this. Honestly Carl, getting worked up about this isn't going to change anything. Sooner or later we all find our niche in this world where we feel comfortable. That's how humans socialize.


----------



## stan_der_man

Renaissance Woman said:


> Wow, bitter much?
> 
> Dude, people like what they like. I don't expect every guy to think I'm hot. I don't expect a majority of guys to think I'm hot. I acknowledge and accept that most people find thinner women sexually attractive and fatter women not so much. I don't blame anybody for not thinking my body type is attractive; nobody chooses what gets their motor running.
> ...



BTW... For what it's worth Ren, I think you're hot.... you and that skinny friend of yours TSL. :batting:


But hey... I'm an old married guy, what do I know... 


If you keep kvetching about being ugly I'm going to start a "Hot Renaissance Woman Thread"...  Whattduya think...?


----------



## butch

oh no, here comes that uppity dyke again, complaining as usual.-figured I'd give you ample time to complain before I got into it-

I've read a lot of these 'I don't fit in' threads, and you know what, I'm more than willing to offer anyone easy lessons on how to fit in at Dims. If I can do it, you can too! 

Seriously, PM me, I'll help you out, it isn't that hard to figure out how to fit in.


----------



## Renaissance Woman

fa_man_stan said:


> BTW... For what it's worth Ren, I think you're hot.... you and that skinny friend of yours TSL. :batting:
> 
> 
> But hey... I'm an old married guy, what do I know...
> 
> 
> If you keep kvetching about being ugly I'm going to start a "Hot Renaissance Woman Thread"...  Whattduya think...?


That wasn't a being ugly complaint, but if you want to start a thread dedicated to how hot I am, who I am to argue? I bow to your superior judgment. :bow:


----------



## furious styles

op : you're blurring the line between acceptance and attraction.


----------



## stan_der_man

butch said:


> oh no, here comes that uppity dyke again...



Oooh! A dyke even... RenWoman and..... you don't say!?


Better yet!


----------



## butch

fa_man_stan said:


> Oooh! A dyke even... RenWoman and..... you don't say!?
> 
> 
> Better yet!



You are such a scamp, Stan. I'm one of those angry political dykes, so none of that "Girls Gone Wild" shenanigans for you!


----------



## cute_obese_girl

Carl1h said:


> The idea that I can go to TV and not be reminded that fat=ugly doesn't make any sense to me. I guess I'm on the wrong cable system. Maybe the fat=ugly message isn't as prevalent in the world as I thought. I had gotten the impression that fat women here thought that the outside world was anti fat and that a place like dims where you can hear a fat positive message was a greatly valued thing. I guess I should get out more, apparently the world has changed and I didn't know it. Or maybe you don't so much care where I go, as long as I go away.



Uh, you've got what I said all backwards. Yes tv and the world tell us fat is bad. Dims is here to not tell us that. I'm just saying on the main parts of Dims I know the men there find fat women attractive. When I go to the BHM board they may or may not find fat women attractive. The same goes for you only opposite. If you are on the BHM board the women find fat men attractive. If you are on the other parts they may or may not find fat men attractive.


----------



## bexy

to the op:
honestly, the hot boy thread was beginning to fade into obscurity, all this thread has done is bring it right back to everyones attention. i know all i now want to do is go look at it again, and maybe even post in it again.

if you object to it so highly, then why surround it with giant neon lights and make it stand out even more? want do you want to acheive with this thread? have the hot boy thread deleted because there arent enough fat guys on it for your liking? or perhaps change the opinions of the women here on what they find attractive? as neither will or can be acheived.

people are attracted to whom they are attracted to, fat or thin. this board is for people of size, and those who love them. discriminating against anyone due to size is still against the theory of "size acceptance" promoted here at dims.

i am a fat girl who likes (mostly) skinny guys, who in turn have to like fat girls. i am a fat girl who likes (mostly) fat girls, who in turn have to like fat girls. 

i wont change, hide or apologise for any of my preferences.

that is me, that is my taste.


now if you excuse i have to carry on singing...

"what we need is a great big melting pot, big enough to fit the world and all its got...."


----------



## goofy girl

wow 

Some people have WAYYYY too much free time on their hands. Seriously.


----------



## Carl1h

Australian Lord said:


> As a fairly hefty fellow myself, I don't see the divide, artificial or not between the BHM board and the rest of the forum (on the former I can probably count my posts on one hand). If I find someone attractive, whatever their body characteristics, I cannot deny it or ignore, and the whole "if you don't prefer people the same size as you your some sort of size traitor" is a load of shit.



My point isn't that it's wrong to find them attractive, my point is that a Hot Boy (or Girl) celebrity thread isn't appropriate because it has nothing to do with fat acceptance and there are many (I linked 19 of them in one of my previous posts) other places to ogle attractive celebrities and only a few places to get away from that sort of thing.



fa_man_stan said:


> I think you will find that men who are extremely thin or short are also not represented as being "hot". This isn't exclusively a BHM issue.
> 
> As RenWoman and the others said, people like what they like. Appropriate or inappropriate as these types of threads may be, that is simply human nature and the people posting their preferences in these threads are just a reflection of that. There really is no intentional malice that I can see.



Celebrities are an unrealistic ideal on all counts, I don't think that fact makes me any happier about the thread. I'm not trying to put thin or short men down, but on the other hand, this isn't a short, thin or celebrity acceptance site, so I'm not coming at it from that perspective.

Again, as I have been saying, I'm not telling people what to like or what not to like. There are lots of things that are considered to have a proper place on these boards, it's an acknowledged practice that there is an appropriate place for things and an inappropriate place for things. There are lots of places to go look at hot celebs. I don't feel like the hot celeb activism site is really needed just yet, well maybe for Britney fans, but that's the exception.



butch said:


> I've read a lot of these 'I don't fit in' threads, and you know what, I'm more than willing to offer anyone easy lessons on how to fit in at Dims. If I can do it, you can too!
> 
> Seriously, PM me, I'll help you out, it isn't that hard to figure out how to fit in.



Thanks Butch, that's nice to offer. I made this mess and I don't really mind it. I might try fitting in later though, so I might PM you later. 



mfdoom said:


> op : you're blurring the line between acceptance and attraction.



I wish I wasn't, I'm trying to talk about acceptance and everyone else is telling me that I'm telling them who they should be attracted to. Thing is, if it hasn't been made clear yet, I don't care who they're attracted to.

I guess I could be upset about people telling me what should or shouldn't offend me. Or I could be upset that people seem to think I don't have any right to be offended, which is kind of strange in that seems that half the posters on these boards are offended about something at any given time.

I don't really understand what people think I'm trying to take away from them. That thread isn't going anywhere, I already knew that, I lost this argument weeks ago and I said that in the first post of this thread. If it did go away, then what? No one would be able to find pictures of their favorite hot celebs? Hopefully no one believes that. Everyone would be forced to be attracted to fat people? How would that even work? I'm not supposed to care that the thread is there, but people come out to defend it even though it isn't going anywhere. They're allowed to care. In threads where someone says that fat people should hang tough in the face of adversity other people will come on and say, no, you can't just tell people to tough it out, the hurts that fat people feel are real hurts the oppression is real oppression and their feelings shouldn't be marginalized. Where is that sentiment now? This isn't important enough? I'm just being weak or dramatic or fighting the wrong fight? I disagree. How can we look at the outside world and tell them not to do these things that hurt us when we can't be bothered, we can't be inconvenienced, by the "petty" complaints of other fat people?

Is that what fat acceptance is to you all?

That's not what it is to me.


----------



## moore2me

Carl1h said:


> My point isn't that it's wrong to find them attractive, my point is that a Hot Boy (or Girl) celebrity thread isn't appropriate because it has nothing to do with fat acceptance and there are many (I linked 19 of them in one of my previous posts) other places to ogle attractive celebrities and only a few places to get away from that sort of thing.
> 
> *Just because it has nothing to do with fat acceptance, doesn't mean it should be banned from our little community. We like it here & feel comfortable & safe. We argue, talk about current events, pour our hearts out when we are hurt, and discuss our health problems. But even more, we play games like movie trivia, music trivia, puzzles, write poems & limericks and celebrate birthdays. A lot of these events go on at other places on the internet, so if we follow your logic, these fun & games are also inappropriate, have nothing to do with fat acceptance and should be eliminated from posting on DIMS. Baloney I say! I enjoy playing and cavorting as much as I do arguing or exposing my vunerabilities in serious discussions. But, I can only take so much of this heart wrenching dialect. To quote Jack Nicholson in The Stand, "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy*."
> 
> Celebrities are an unrealistic ideal on all counts, I don't think that fact makes me any happier about the thread. I'm not trying to put thin or short men down, but on the other hand, this isn't a short, thin or celebrity acceptance site, so I'm not coming at it from that perspective.
> 
> Again, as I have been saying, I'm not telling people what to like or what not to like. There are lots of things that are considered to have a proper place on these boards, it's an acknowledged practice that there is an appropriate place for things and an inappropriate place for things. There are lots of places to go look at hot celebs. I don't feel like the hot celeb activism site is really needed just yet, well maybe for Britney fans, but that's the exception.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Butch, that's nice to offer. I made this mess and I don't really mind it. I might try fitting in later though, so I might PM you later.
> 
> 
> 
> I wish I wasn't, I'm trying to talk about acceptance and everyone else is telling me that I'm telling them who they should be attracted to. Thing is, if it hasn't been made clear yet, I don't care who they're attracted to.
> 
> I guess I could be upset about people telling me what should or shouldn't offend me. Or I could be upset that people seem to think I don't have any right to be offended, which is kind of strange in that seems that half the posters on these boards are offended about something at any given time.
> 
> I don't really understand what people think I'm trying to take away from them. That thread isn't going anywhere, I already knew that, I lost this argument weeks ago and I said that in the first post of this thread. If it did go away, then what? No one would be able to find pictures of their favorite hot celebs? Hopefully no one believes that. Everyone would be forced to be attracted to fat people? How would that even work? I'm not supposed to care that the thread is there, but people come out to defend it even though it isn't going anywhere. They're allowed to care. In threads where someone says that fat people should hang tough in the face of adversity other people will come on and say, no, you can't just tell people to tough it out, the hurts that fat people feel are real hurts the oppression is real oppression and their feelings shouldn't be marginalized. Where is that sentiment now? This isn't important enough? I'm just being weak or dramatic or fighting the wrong fight? I disagree. How can we look at the outside world and tell them not to do these things that hurt us when we can't be bothered, we can't be inconvenienced, by the "petty" complaints of other fat people?
> 
> Is that what fat acceptance is to you all?
> 
> That's not what it is to me.



*As far as having a place for fat people to express themselves where their feelings won't be marginalized and they won't be pushed away or made fun of by "normal" people, that's what we have here at DIMS. But, we can still play games and swap recipes just like other people do. It's a total package. Sure I can play movie trivia somewhere else. But while I'm here, it's easier and the people are friendly, so I would rather patronize and associate with the troops at this site. Sort of like shopping at Walmart. I buy groceries there, but I also can get books, gardening supplies, fishing worms, and have my oil changed while I'm there. Very conveinent, and the people are friendly too.*


----------



## wrestlingguy

Hey Carl, during my early days at Dimensions, the only thing one could see here was pictures of the girls, since the "mission statement" for Dims was that (paraphrasing here) it was for BBW's and the men who were attracted to them.

Over the years, Dims has become a place where ANYONE can be fat and be accepted and appreciated here. Hell, I look at the BHM board and see some cool looking dudes there, and can understand why some of you (male & female) find them attractive.

Every now & then, I look at that thread & wince a liitle bit 'cause I'm not on the "hot boy thread", but at my age, it's harder to make that list.......and part of growing older is acceptance of things like that, so I'm learning to do just that.

Anyway, IMO, it's more important to be liked for who I am than it is for someone to think that I'm hot. I'm not directing that at you, my friend, just saying what works for me.

Hang around here a while, and see if this place suits your needs. You sound like a very articulate guy, and we could use a few more of you in Dimensions.


----------



## Carl1h

moore2me said:


> Just because it has nothing to do with fat acceptance, doesn't mean it should be banned from our little community. We like it here & feel comfortable & safe. We argue, talk about current events, pour our hearts out when we are hurt, and discuss our health problems. But even more, we play games like movie trivia, music trivia, puzzles, write poems & limericks and celebrate birthdays. A lot of these events go on at other places on the internet, so if we follow your logic, these fun & games are also inappropriate, have nothing to do with fat acceptance and should be eliminated from posting on DIMS. Baloney I say! I enjoy playing and cavorting as much as I do arguing or exposing my vunerabilities in serious discussions. But, I can only take so much of this heart wrenching dialect. To quote Jack Nicholson in The Stand, "All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy."
> 
> As far as having a place for fat people to express themselves where their feelings won't be marginalized and they won't be pushed away or made fun of by "normal" people, that's what we have here at DIMS. But, we can still play games and swap recipes just like other people do. It's a total package. Sure I can play movie trivia somewhere else. But while I'm here, it's easier and the people are friendly, so I would rather patronize and associate with the troops at this site. Sort of like shopping at Walmart. I buy groceries there, but I also can get books, gardening supplies, fishing worms, and have my oil changed while I'm there. Very conveinent, and the people are friendly too.



I thought that it was a common perception that as fat people we are bombarded constantly by images of unrealistically skinny celebrities and that this constant flow of images that don't include anything that looks like us reinforces negative self views within us, and negative views of fat people in general. I've never heard the same be said of trivia games, puzzles, poems, limericks or birthdays. I don't see the slippery slope that leads to losing every other fun thread we ever had once we lose the hot boy thread.

Nobody's desire to have Dimensions be a "One Stop Shop" for all of everyone's internet needs trumps the idea that Dimensions is a sort of safe haven for fat people. People aren't welcome here to talk about how many pounds they lost this week on their diet du jour. People aren't welcome here to tell us how fat people are ruining the planet. There aren't any threads here about how funny it was that some fat person took a humiliating fall. There aren't any threads here for people to say that they find fat people disgusting. People's unsupportive parent's can't start a thread here begging them to lose weight. There aren't any threads here to carry on the constant drumbeat of the message that as fat people we are far outside society's ideal of beauty... oh, wait that one we actually do have, but that's ok, because we wouldn't want Dims to fall short of people's "One Stop Shop" internet needs.

Walmart is great at providing lots of things you need? Have you ever asked the for a copy of the movie Wal-Mart Nation? It's a movie about anti Walmart activists. Maybe they carry the anti Walmart T-shirts there that say "I'll Eat Your Town... and smile too". I doubt they do, and regardless of anyone's personal feelings about Walmart or anti Walmart activism, I doubt that people would expect to find anti Walmart merchandise at Walmart, even if Walmart is their one stop shop for everything else.


----------



## The Fez

Whoops, I saw 'hot guy' and thought I was being addressed... my bad!


----------



## butch

I think Carl has a point, as I have had feelings in the past very much like the ones he is mentioning. I'll only speak for me here, but I can say it isn't much fun to see 'hot boy' or 'hot girl' threads and rarely see people in there that look like you, even at a site for the fatties. I know, many of you say 'start your own thread' and all that, but that isn't quite the same as seeing someone else post a picture that suggests "Hey, I think someone who looks kinda like Butch is hot."

One thing that I am struggling to reconcile in my own life is the disconnect between how I see my body and how society sees it. I like how I look, my body, my face, the whole thing, but as far as I can tell from the rest of the the world, nobody else seems to like the whole Butch package.  That extends to Dims, where even in the 'hot girl' threads, where women admit to having girl crushes, and the bi/queer girls post their faves, no one posts a butchish looking fat woman. I'm not casting blame, or making demands, but surely you can see that this would be a less than pleasant thing to experience time and again here, even as one accepts that people here at Dims, as elsewhere, have the right to find hot whoever in the hell they want to find hot.

As I said, I've worked my way past being angry about this at Dims (but not the rest of the world, lol), but I think all of us who don't fit in the main paradigm of this site (BBWs and FAs) have a right to work through these feelings ourselves, on the boards, and maybe, unlike me, some don't feel they have to capitulate to the ruling paradigm here and aren't simply satisfied with having one's mind accepted and not their body. For them, they'd like to carve out a little more space for the hot fat guy, and I say, if it gets more fat guys to participate on the rest of the boards, then I'm all for it.


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

butch said:


> oh no, here comes that uppity dyke again, complaining as usual.-figured I'd give you ample time to complain before I got into it-
> 
> I've read a lot of these 'I don't fit in' threads, and you know what, I'm more than willing to offer anyone easy lessons on how to fit in at Dims. If I can do it, you can too!
> 
> Seriously, PM me, I'll help you out, it isn't that hard to figure out how to fit in.



.. How to fit into Dimensions, eh? 

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.


----------



## Tooz

Gee!

I was not aware that I was NOT ALLOWED to find skinny guys attractive, and was supposed to just worship fat dudes all the time.


Silly me, I thought there was a BHM board?


----------



## Jack Skellington

Carl1h said:


> I'm trying to address the point of BHMs in general feel comfortable coming to the other boards here.



Well, then you are not doing a very good job of getting that point across. Your taking offense at the two hot threads (which has pics of all types of people) when the lounge has nearly seven thousand posts now is misguided and in no way shows any kind of bias against BHM. 

Instead of getting angry that people like what ever they like, ignore those two threads and join in the literally *thousands* of other threads and start talking to people. The lounge has all kinds of topics. I personally invite you to check out my Caturday and video game threads. 

Because, honestly, the only person that is really making you feel unwelcome is you. So quit hiding in the BHM forum and join in.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Carl1h said:


> I'm trying to address the point of BHMs in general feel comfortable coming to the other boards here. Your point isn't that I should go away because we disagree, you said just the opposite, but she said I should go away, and I wanted to point that out. Go away, isn't really the way to get wider participation.
> 
> I'm sorry if my bombastic grandstanding put you off. I didn't realize the simple homespun nature of the rhetoric you're usually used to.
> 
> Wait, are you saying that there are people who don't think Johnny Depp is cute? You understand that I'm not arguing that they aren't cute, or that people can't like whoever they like, right? I'm just saying that with so many sites dedicated to celebrity worship, does it need to be here too?



Apparently so Carl. I can count the number of FA's in the BHM board on one hand. Some will say, "Yeah, any girl will do as long as I like her personality," but lets be frank here. The BHM board is not the high falutin fat girl party it is everywhere else on this board. It is what it is. People describe their preference on there all the time and I can't get all bent out of shape about it, as long as they're not saying EEEW or something. 

Does it feel like a hostile environment sometimes? Yes. But i can dig it because I don't believe in shutting people up or forcing people to profess things that are untrue. The ladies are posting pics of what they like. What do you want from them? We're not going to take the thread down or affix our desires in a way that pleases you. We don't expect you to do it. Go ahead and profess your love for Mischa Barton on the BHM board, just so long as it's respectful no one should interfere. We promise we won't go there and slobber all over Brad Pitt. Just because everybody on the BHM doesn't want to wallow in our folds doesn't mean some grave injustice is afoot. Censorship just isn't going to happen here.


----------



## Ivy

LillyBBBW said:


> Apparently so Carl. I can count the number of FA's in the BHM board on one hand. Some will say, "Yeah, any girl will do as long as I like her personality," but lets be frank here. The BHM board is not the high falutin fat girl party it is everywhere else on this board. It is what it is. People describe their preference on there all the time and I can't get all bent out of shape about it, as long as they're not saying EEEW or something.
> 
> Does it feel like a hostile environment sometimes? Yes. But i can dig it because I don't believe in shutting people up or forcing people to profess things that are untrue. The ladies are posting pics of what they like. What do you want from them? We're not going to take the thread down or affix our desires in a way that pleases you. We don't expect you to do it. Go ahead and profess your love for Mischa Barton on the BHM board, just so long as it's respectful no one should interfere. We promise we won't go there and slobber all over Brad Pitt. *Just because everybody on the BHM doesn't want to wallow in our folds doesn't mean some grave injustice is afoot.* Censorship just isn't going to happen here.




lollollollollollollol
oh god i love you.


and i agree with everything you said here.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to LillyBBBW again"

WELL DAMN.


----------



## Blackjack

Ivy said:


> "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to LillyBBBW again"
> 
> WELL DAMN.



Got her for you... although really I don't know that enough can be given for the "wallow in our folds" line.

But that's really a discussion that ought to be taken to the "Extra Fetishes" thread.


----------



## Miss Vickie

Confession: I haven't looked at the "hot boy" thread since stuff like that doesn't really interest me. I have much more fun mud wrestling in Hyde Park.  However, since Carl kindly brought it to my attention with this thread... well... here I am.



Carl1h said:


> I used to stay on the BHM board, and part of my point is that if people want the fat guys to come out onto the main board then maybe you should be prepared to hear their point of view, not agree, but at least listen.



True, but I think you should be prepared to hear other people's points of view, too. No one is asking you to agree with them ... but as you say... "just listen". I'm married to a BHM and while I think he's the hottest guy on the planet, there are other men -- thin and fat -- who I find attractive. And (horror!) I am occasionally vocal about that, though usually not in front of him but rather when just hanging with my girlfriends.



> The idea that I can go to TV and not be reminded that fat=ugly doesn't make any sense to me. I guess I'm on the wrong cable system. Maybe the fat=ugly message isn't as prevalent in the world as I thought. I had gotten the impression that fat women here thought that the outside world was anti fat and that a place like dims where you can hear a fat positive message was a greatly valued thing. I guess I should get out more, apparently the world has changed and I didn't know it. Or maybe you don't so much care where I go, as long as I go away.



Are you saying that finding a thin person attractive is anti-fat? Because I don't think that's fair. Who we find attractive is, as Ren Woman says, how we're wired. Does the fact that I think thin guys (some thin guys) are cute mean that I'm anti-fat? Am I somehow obligated, as a formerly fat woman, to find all BHM's available? 'Cause if I don't, I'm a traitor to the movement? 



Renaissance Woman said:


> I acknowledge and accept that most people find thinner women sexually attractive and fatter women not so much. I don't blame anybody for not thinking my body type is attractive; nobody chooses what gets their motor running.



Exactly. And, even when I was fat, did I ever get compliments on how I looked? Nope. Not from the guys, anyway. Did I hold that against them? No, but I have to admit that it hurts. Apparently _*not*_ every fat woman is beautiful was the "take home" message I got from the "kind" FA's here.



Carl1h said:


> My point isn't that it's wrong to find them attractive, my point is that a Hot Boy (or Girl) celebrity thread isn't appropriate because it has nothing to do with fat acceptance and there are many (I linked 19 of them in one of my previous posts) other places to ogle attractive celebrities and only a few places to get away from that sort of thing.



As others have said, Dimensions isn't "only" about acceptance. We are normal people, just like everyone else, and as such we watch movies, cook, play video games, and have crushes on celebrities. Saying it's inappropriate because it's not size related means that every other non-size related thread should go bye bye, too. And if that happened, Dimensions would be a very dull place. If you don't like those threads, Carl, just don't click on them. I thought the "hot boy" thread was kind of... well... not my thing. So I didn't click on it. Just like all the threads that say how gorgeous all the women here are; I'm ALWAYS excluded from that and yeah it hurts my feelings so yeah I don't click there either.



> I wish I wasn't, I'm trying to talk about acceptance and everyone else is telling me that I'm telling them who they should be attracted to. Thing is, if it hasn't been made clear yet, I don't care who they're attracted to.



But you do seem to care, judging by your comments in this thread. If you truly didn't care, why would you start, and then continue, this discussion? It really seems like you're saying that in order to be "accepting", we must only find fat people attractive. To do otherwise (and verbalize that) is anti-fat. That's like saying that if I like chocolate ice cream, I'm anti-vanilla. I happen to love both!



> I guess I could be upset about people telling me what should or shouldn't offend me. Or I could be upset that people seem to think I don't have any right to be offended, which is kind of strange in that seems that half the posters on these boards are offended about something at any given time.



Who's telling you this? You can be upset or offended by anything you want. I think people are just telling you that they disagree that finding thin guys attractive is anathema to size acceptance. But by all means, be offended or upset if you like. I can tell you though from personal experience that it doesn't help. 



> I don't really understand what people think I'm trying to take away from them.



It seems, from my reading, that you're trying to take away a fun and silly time waster like the "hot boy" thread. It seems to me pretty clear that you think it's inappropriate here (your words, not mine) and that you want it gone. So... that's pretty clear, isn't it? If you don't want to take it away, why say it's inappropriate, and that you "lost" the argument because the thread is still here?



butch said:


> I think Carl has a point, as I have had feelings in the past very much like the ones he is mentioning. I'll only speak for me here, but I can say it isn't much fun to see 'hot boy' or 'hot girl' threads and rarely see people in there that look like you, even at a site for the fatties. I know, many of you say 'start your own thread' and all that, but that isn't quite the same as seeing someone else post a picture that suggests "Hey, I think someone who looks kinda like Butch is hot."



Same thing has happened to me. And yeah, it makes me a little sad (who doesn't want to be considered attractive?) but I figure that's my problem. I just try to remind myself that I have other qualities that people admire and are kind enough to tell me about. (I still wish I was cute, though. *sigh*) Like you say, it's not very pleasant, is it?  So on that level I can identify with Carl; however, I don't think it's fair to ask others to be responsible for improving my self image. Even here at Dimensions.

Anyhoo, I'm not sure what the answer is. In my own case, I just try not to be personally crushed when it feels like everyone else gets messages telling them how attractive they are and I'm soundly ignored. I'm just blessed that Burtimus thinks I'm cute. :smitten:


----------



## LillyBBBW

More's the point, the thin women who post on the BHM board are among the kindest and most beautiful women I've had the distinct pleasure to interact with. When the men on the BHM board go ga-ga when they grace us with their pictures I have to heartily nod my head in vigorous agreement. Beautiful ladies, and wonderful kind spirited people. There's no need to feel threatened when someone graces them with a compliment. The compliments are well deserved.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

Carl1h said:


> I don't understand this thinking. How, if I think that the Hot Boy thread is wrong, am I supposed to see the Hot Girl thread as right? Is that supposed to give me a place to be wrong too, so then I'm not excluded from being wrong? I can go billions of places on the internet and see pictures of women that are deemed by the vast majority to be beautiful, I don't need to do that here. If I want to see pictures of beautiful fat women, my choices are greatly diminished. That's why they are here, that's one reason this place exists, so that guys like BGB aren't stuck with before pictures from weight loss ads. I'm told that outside of the gay sites, the sites for looking at pictures of fat men are almost non-existent. But as I have said, celebrity photo sites aren't that hard to find.




I'm having a hard time understanding what your problem is. Are you upset because people are admitting to finding people who aren't fat attractive? 

Acceptance doesn't equal conformation.

People just like who they like and they shouldn't be expected to keep it to themselves just because we are on a fat acceptance site. So what if Joey thinks Jessica Alba is hot, she is a very pretty woman. I'd have a problem if Joey said Jessica Alba is hot and she's the only type of woman he finds hot, everyone that doesn't look like her is a fat ugly cow and anyone who doesn't agree must have issues.


----------



## Carl1h

Ella Bella said:


> I'm having a hard time understanding what your problem is. Are you upset because people are admitting to finding people who aren't fat attractive?
> 
> *Acceptance doesn't equal conformation.*
> 
> People just like who they like and they shouldn't be expected to keep it to themselves just because we are on a fat acceptance site. So what if Joey thinks Jessica Alba is hot, she is a very pretty woman. I'd have a problem if Joey said Jessica Alba is hot and she's the only type of woman he finds hot, everyone that doesn't look like her is a fat ugly cow and anyone who doesn't agree must have issues.



Conformity to what? I'm the only one on this thread with a non-conforming opinion, and the only one whose opinion doesn't conform to the ideas of the greater population? Or do you mean that being accepting of fat people doesn't mean conforming to their ideas of what it means to accept them? That I shouldn't fight to be accepted on my own terms?

So, the consensus here is that I'm telling people who they should and shouldn't find attractive and that threads of Hot Celeb pics are a necessity to their freedom of choice. I guess if that's all that can be learned from this then there it is, I hear you.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

Carl1h said:


> Conformity to what? I'm the only one on this thread with a non-conforming opinion, and the only one whose opinion doesn't conform to the ideas of the greater population? Or do you mean that being accepting of fat people doesn't mean conforming to their ideas of what it means to accept them? That I shouldn't fight to be accepted on my own terms?
> 
> So, the consensus here is that I'm telling people who they should and shouldn't find attractive and that threads of Hot Celeb pics are a necessity to their freedom of choice. I guess if that's all that can be learned from this then there it is, I hear you.



I'm trying to understand exactly what your problem with the hot boy thread is? What is it about the thread that gets your goat? Is it because the boys on the hot boy thread dont look like you? 

That's why I asked, does fat acceptance to you only mean that people who are posting here on a fat acceptance site, be fat and only be attracted to fat people?


----------



## TraciJo67

Carl, I know that you've explained it multiple times, but there seems to be something contradictory (or maybe just confusing to me) in what you are trying to say. I'm also puzzled as to why the Hot Boy thread bothers you. It seems that the message you are trying to convey is that we shouldn't be openly appreciative of thin, fit, attractive men ... because men who aren't one or all of these things may feel offended or have hurt feelings. 

Is that what you are trying to convey? And if so, why should we take responsibility for your feelings on this matter? I'm a thin(ner) woman. I know that most of the openly appreciative FA's who post at this site are not in the slightest bit attracted to my body type. So what? Lid for every pot, and all that. I can't blame someone for what he/she finds appealing. Not every woman is going to find you attractive, here or elsewhere. Some will. Those who don't ... their loss.


----------



## mergirl

steely said:


> I thought that was Gary Oldman,nice!


oh lmao.. when i read that i thought you ment the guy from "different strokes"!! Then i remembered he was Gary coleman!!
Hahahaha.. i was thinking..well each to thier own..but PLEASE no posting of gary coleman pics please!! whatcha talking about??

oh dear. xxmer


----------



## stan_der_man

Carl1h said:


> fa_man_stan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think you will find that men who are extremely thin or short are also not represented as being "hot". This isn't exclusively a BHM issue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> I'm not trying to put thin or short men down, but on the other hand, this isn't a short, thin or celebrity acceptance site, so I'm not coming at it from that perspective.
> ...
Click to expand...


Only partially true Carl... This is where your point of debate hits that proverbial can of worms, and part of what I occasionally rant about myself... 

Many of the FAs here are thin or short, and have issues relating to their fat admiration vs their size to the fat people they are attracted to (males in particular). This website is presumably dedicated to their "acceptance" also. But the way the social dynamic seems to have worked out here (in my opinion) is that this group of FAs has taken on more of the role of supporter to fat people and has gotten lost in the shuffle of causes vying for attention here in Dimensions. Dismissing this group of thin and short FAs (Dimensions members) is no different than dismissing BHMs as having unjustified "grievances". As a matter of fact, the BHMs have their own board here in Dimensions where these issues can be specifically discussed, the other male (thin, short... whatever...) don't. 

Here's a post from a guy I thought eloquently summed up the role that we males often take in support of the fat acceptance movement...



Carl1h said:


> I don't post here a lot, but I've been lurking and watching the size acceptance movement since I found it on the newsgroups in the early 90's. *What was true then is true now, FAs are a part of the backbone of this movement.* When it comes to knowledge about what it's like getting along being fat there are a lot of married FAs who are knowledgeable and resourceful beyond what a lot of fat people are themselves. The reason is simple, they love their BBW wives and they want them to be as happy and well cared for as possible, in other words, be good husbands. *You all probably don't get the credit you deserve, but I can testify to the contributions that the thin, married FAs make to the size acceptance community...* even if as a fat man all thin men are my avowed enemies.
> 
> *You know, there was a thread or two around asking what the definition of masculine was. I think I could hold up the supportive, married FA, joining and becoming a mover in the fat acceptance movement, not out of self interest, but out of support for loved ones, if not as the definition of masculine, certainly as a fine example of a man.*



As this guy wrote... Perhaps many of us guys (BHMs, thin FAs... etc..) don't feel we get the support we deserve... the accolades we sometimes crave. That is simply what life often doles out to us men, there's nothing new here.





Carl1h said:


> *...but I can testify to the contributions that the thin, married FAs make to the size acceptance community... even if as a fat man all thin men are my avowed enemies. *



I know you were just kidding with your last statement here Carl (as the winky face suggests...) but maybe you are perceiving enemies where there are none, injustices that don't really exist or which are so trivial they aren't worth the time. As you wrote here Carl, we are all here for the cause of fat acceptance, we each play different roles in this "battle". Many times these various camps are going in different directions, see things from different angles. Sometimes it's best to sit back, and see what transpires. Learn from these different approaches to a common cause, brush aside things you don't agree with, avoid wasting your time on the trivial, but always be prepared to jump in when things are going in a direction that you can relate to, put your heart into.



Carl1h said:


> *... if not as the definition of masculine, certainly as a fine example of a man.*



Come on Carl, be a man... Quit whining and just let folks have some fun.


----------



## TraciJo67

fa_man_stan said:


> Come on Carl, be a man... Quit whining and just let folks have some fun.



... so says the conventionally handsome thin man


----------



## Spanky

TraciJo67 said:


> ... so says the conventionally handsome thin man



....and YOUNG.....don't forget young!


----------



## stan_der_man

TraciJo67 said:


> ... so says the conventionally handsome *tin* man



Thanks for the kudos TJ... Just trying to have a heart is the most important thing...








Blowing off some steam on occasion helps too!


----------



## stan_der_man

Spanky said:


> ....and *HUNG*.....don't forget *hung*!



I'd probably get censored for doing that one...


----------



## TraciJo67

Spanky said:


> ....and YOUNG.....don't forget young!



Hey look, it's another conventionally .... thin man


----------



## Spanky

TraciJo67 said:


> Hey look, it's another conventionally .... thin man



And comments from the older women. Again.....<sigh>

How's it going Gramma? 


Lub,

Gramps


----------



## TraciJo67

Spanky said:


> And comments from the older women. Again.....<sigh>
> 
> How's it going Gramma?
> 
> 
> Lub,
> 
> Gramps



Oh no you di'int just call me old.

I'm going to start a thread about being made to feel less than welcome because I'm not 20. Oh yes, I am. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow ... but soon, most likely.


----------



## Carl1h

fa_man_stan said:


> Only partially true Carl... This is where your point of debate hits that proverbial can of worms, and part of what I occasionally rant about myself...
> 
> Many of the FAs here are thin or short, and have issues relating to their fat admiration vs their size to the fat people they are attracted to (males in particular). This website is presumably dedicated to their "acceptance" also. But the way the social dynamic seems to have worked out here (in my opinion) is that this group of FAs has taken on more of the role of supporter to fat people and has gotten lost in the shuffle of causes vying for attention here in Dimensions. Dismissing this group of thin and short FAs (Dimensions members) is no different than dismissing BHMs as having unjustified "grievances". As a matter of fact, the BHMs have their own board here in Dimensions where these issues can be specifically discussed, the other male (thin, short... whatever...) don't.



Yeah, that guy you're talking about had some things to say on that aspect of it. He tends to repeat himself over and over again when he's trying to get a point across because he often doesn't feel like people are really trying to understand what he he's saying.



Carl1h said:


> I said before that a thread full of pictures of the FAs here, whatever their size or of the significant others, whatever their size, would (IMO) be perfectly fine, because this is the only place you're going to see that, and the FAs are part of the community (I doubt that any of those hot celebrities are).





Carl1h said:


> I wouldn't have a problem with a thread where the BBW's showed off their husbands and boyfriends, whether they be fat, skinny or in between. But a 1000+ post thread of pictures of celebrities that is 99% skinny, buff guys, goes kinda far with it in my opinion. But then just as I don't really need to be reminded what the popular view of the perfect male is, I also don't need to be reminded that people can be clueless about the effects of their own actions.





Carl1h said:


> As far as what the women here look at, I don't care what they look at. A lot of the regular FAs are, as far as I can tell, conventionally handsome men. I wouldn't complain about a thread showing off their thin bodies and ripped abs, because I can see the point in it and these guys are real guys who are here doing the support thing. Women preferring thin guys really aren't any sort of deviance, they aren't unusual, they are the norm, and I have already noticed that trend. I just don't think that particular thread is in good taste on a fat acceptance site


----------



## Miss Vickie

Carl1h said:


> Yeah, that guy you're talking about had some things to say on that aspect of it. He tends to repeat himself over and over again when he's trying to get a point across because he often doesn't feel like people are really trying to understand what he he's saying.



But you know what's really fun, Carl? When someone takes the time to make what she thinks is a cogent argument, to address someone's concerns in an honest and intelligent fashion .... only to be ignored by the original poster. It really makes a girl feel _special_.


----------



## TraciJo67

Miss Vickie said:


> But you know what's really fun, Carl? When someone takes the time to make what she thinks is a cogent argument, to address someone's concerns in an honest and intelligent fashion .... only to be ignored by the original poster. It really makes a girl feel _special_.



It's because you're old, Vickie. I strongly encourage you to start a thread, STAT!


----------



## olwen

Carl1h said:


> I don't understand this thinking. How, if I think that the Hot Boy thread is wrong, am I supposed to see the Hot Girl thread as right? Is that supposed to give me a place to be wrong too, so then I'm not excluded from being wrong? I can go billions of places on the internet and see pictures of women that are deemed by the vast majority to be beautiful, I don't need to do that here. If I want to see pictures of beautiful fat women, my choices are greatly diminished. That's why they are here, that's one reason this place exists, so that guys like BGB aren't stuck with before pictures from weight loss ads. *I'm told that outside of the gay sites, the sites for looking at pictures of fat men are almost non-existent. But as I have said, celebrity photo sites aren't that hard to find.*



We've been thru this before too. Sites outside of gay sites for looking at pics of fat men are almost non-existent because of the way women are taught to express their sexuality. Generally, many women in frown upon pornography period. It's just something their taught to hate. So it stands to reason that a porno site geared at them would seem a foreign idea and therefore almost non-existent. Last time I checked gay men are still men - men who are encouraged to talk about, display, openly be turned on by what they like. Women are not. 

Celebrity photo site are not hard to find. True, but a place where women can express what they like is. Sure this site was even started as a way for men to express what they like sexually, but over time it also makes sense for the women to begin to express what they like too. Carl you have to accept that. 
We need a place to talk about, explore and yes even oggle what we like. Sometimes it's just not going to always be fat guys. 

It's beginning to bother me that you feel that I or any other woman here isn't entitled to display what we like. This site is as much for us as it is for you. How unfair is it for you to say that we shouldn't be allowed to do this when the majority of the site is dedicated to _male _sexual expression? Just allow us womenfolk to carve out a meager thread or out of thousands to say hey, this floats my boat. That's all we're going for here. 

Remember to put this into context. It's one or two threads where women can say what they like out of thousands of threads where men say what they like.


----------



## Dibaby35

Dude stop being jealous and get over your insecurities..we love all the men here..really!

Now where is this hot guy thread anyways..


----------



## Les Toil

In my opinion Carl has an extremely legit gripe. Let's face it, if a ton of FAs began posting mainly images of thin super models in a "Hot Chicks" thread, I have a feeling many of the women here would be a bit concerned that fat adoration isn't as strong here as it used to be. They might even go so far as to tell them there's thousands of skinny girl forums they can go and exchange pics at. I seriously doubt their attitude would be "To each his own. Your preference is your preference". 

The hot boys thread sends a clear message that because male FAs love big, plush female bodies doesn't necessarilly mean a BBW has to drool over big, plush male bodies. Never in my life have I ever dated or hung around a BBW that saw a fat dude in his trunks at the beach (or where ever) and said "OMG...he is beyond hot!". If the guy has a buff, muscular body, their heads will more-than-often turn in his direction. 

That's why I agree with Carl that fat is accepted on the bodies of both men and women here on this great board, but it's undoubtably more _admired_ on the female form. At least that's what the Hot Boy thread says to me in no unclear terms.

"Dude stop being jealous and get over your insecurities."

I think Carl as well as most fat folks come here in hopes of getting over their insecurities.


----------



## Carl1h

Miss Vickie said:


> If you truly didn't care, why would you start, and then continue, this discussion?


Because if I don't continue the discussion by replying to everyone's posts then they get back on later and accuse me of hurting their feelings by ignoring them. Or maybe they're just trying to score points off me by putting me in a damned if I reply, damned if I don't reply situation.


Miss Vickie said:


> But you know what's really fun, Carl? When someone takes the time to make what she thinks is a cogent argument, to address someone's concerns in an honest and intelligent fashion .... only to be ignored by the original poster. It really makes a girl feel _special_.


----------



## Jack Skellington

Les Toil said:


> In my opinion Carl has an extremely legit gripe.



I respectfully disagree.



> Let's face it, if a ton of FAs began posting mainly images of thin super models in a "Hot Chicks" thread,



Like I said earlier, there are *plenty* of pics of thin women in the hot girl thread and most of which were posted by BHM. 

I think olwen sums up the whole thing.



> It's beginning to bother me that you feel that I or any other woman here isn't entitled to display what we like. This site is as much for us as it is for you. How unfair is it for you to say that we shouldn't be allowed to do this when the majority of the site is dedicated to male sexual expression? Just allow us womenfolk to carve out a meager thread or out of thousands to say hey, this floats my boat. That's all we're going for here.



People have been more than welcoming and paitent with Carl as well as trying to explain why women should be able to post pics of men of whatever size and shape they find hot. 

It's past him trying to explain his percieved slight and just comes off as him trying to disagree just to be disagreeing. It's one thread among thousands on a site where most of the "hot" or "sexy" type threads are about what men like. If it is still ticking him off, he really has deeper issues and he is just using that thread as a scapegoat. 

*Carl *

Drop this misguided grudge and check out the many, many threads the lounge has to offer. There's really something for everyone. If you are into video games I'm inviting you again to check out the game nerd thread. The more the merrier.


----------



## Carl1h

Jack Skellington said:


> *Carl *
> 
> Drop this misguided grudge and check out the many, many threads the lounge has to offer. There's really something for everyone. If you are into video games I'm inviting you again to check out the game nerd thread. The more the merrier.



I thought I did that here:



Carl1h said:


> So, the consensus here is that I'm telling people who they should and shouldn't find attractive and that threads of Hot Celeb pics are a necessity to their freedom of choice. I guess if that's all that can be learned from this then there it is, I hear you.



My posts since then have been: One to address fa_man_stan's concern that I hadn't considered the male FAs in my argument. A second to address Miss Vickie's concern that I had ignored her and made her feel unappreciated. Now this third to address your concern that I had not yet been properly assimilated.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

Les Toil said:


> The hot boys thread sends a clear message that because male FAs love big, plush female bodies doesn't necessarilly mean a BBW has to drool over big, plush male bodies. Never in my life have I ever dated or hung around a BBW that saw a fat dude in his trunks at the beach (or where ever) and said "OMG...he is beyond hot!". If the guy has a buff, muscular body, their heads will more-than-often turn in his direction.




But the same can be said for fat men. Most of the fat men that I know find smaller women more attractive than fat women. At least that's been my experience.


----------



## Les Toil

Ella Bella said:


> But the same can be said for fat men. Most of the fat men that I know find smaller women more attractive than fat women. At least that's been my experience.



Great example Ella. So clearly you can imagine how most BBW feel seeing time after time that a thin, ripped female body is desired by most males. And clearly we're seeing from the Hot Boys thread that thin, ripped male bodies are desired by most BBW. 

Obviously BBW have the right to express a certain preference in male bods, and that's what they've done in the Hot Boys thread.

And IS there a Hot Chicks thread?? Link please.


----------



## Jack Skellington

Carl1h said:


> My posts since then have been: One to address fa_man_stan's concern that I hadn't considered the male FAs in my argument. A second to address Miss Vickie's concern that I had ignored her and made her feel unappreciated. Now this third to address your concern that I had not yet been properly assimilated.



No worries then. I think this whole thing has been an unfortunate misunderstanding that got blown out proportion.


----------



## Jack Skellington

Les Toil said:


> And IS there a Hot Chicks thread?? Link please.



http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40953


----------



## Les Toil

Ahhh...thanks for the link Jack.


----------



## olwen

Jack Skellington said:


> http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40953



I'd like to point out to the overwhelming number of bbw's who posted pics of skinny chicks they think are pretty. I found that interesting.


----------



## Gingembre

AARRRGGGGGHHHH! (sorry, just a scream of frustration!)

I was trying really hard not to post in this thread, because it seems to be going round in circles, and because I know I'm only about to say things that others have already said....maybe I'll just write a response and won't post. We'll see.

I do understand why you have a problem with the hot boy thread, but I don't understand why you're making it such an issue. Dimensions is a place of size acceptance. Yes there are a lot more fat women and thin male FAs than BHMs and thin FFAs, but that's just how it is. Sorry it's unbalanced, but there's not much we can do about that. So you object to the hot boy/hot girl threads.....I am struggling to understand why you just don't open them? This is what's getting me so worked up. Personally, I don't find weight gain erotic. So I don't really go on the erotic weight gain board. I'm also not American, neither are a significant amount of people on these boards......do I sigh when another Obama/Clinton/whoever thread is started in Hyde Park? Quite often yes I do. Do I mind? No, because this is a place for many different people who want to talk about different things. So I don't open those threads either.

Incidently, whilst I'm on the subject of Hyde Park, the vast majority of that isn't related to size acceptance either (or should I say, fat acceptance, as thinness seems to be what you're not accepting re. the hot boy/girl threads). First and foremost this is a size acceptance place...and it _is_ - you can tell just by looking at all the threads and the different boards. It's not, however, a place simply focussed on everything that's great about fat. Maybe I'm missing the point of Dimensions but, to me, an important part of it is that it's a place where us fatties, and those who favour us, can all hang out together and know that size won't be an issue. That's why there are a range of debates in Hyde Park, a hefty topic about make up in the clothing thread, and the lounge - a board for people to waste a bit of time doing a quiz or posting some holiday snaps or playing some games, or whatever.

I only read this thread quickly before the urge to write something down became too great, but it seems like a basic part of your problem with hot boy thread is that it's full of thin celebrities and that doesn't fit the image of Dimensions. For starters, there are a range of men in that thread.....young and old, fat and thin. Yes there are a majority of thin young men, but that's just the way it's gone. The thread is open to everyone, because not everyone finds the same people attractive. If any of the FFAs around, or the gay BHMs out there want to contribute and put forward what they think is hot, then go ahead.....chances are those men wouldn't float my boat, but no-one's gonna be like "OMG get those men out of this thread". Obviously the thread is full of celebrities....there are men in real life that I find way hotter than those I post in the hot boy thread, but to post a pic of them on here without their knowledge is completely not appropriate. I have crushes on men and women on Dims, but I feel it'd be rude of me to try and track down pics of them and put them in a thread unbeknownst to them (anyway, there's the crushes thread for that!). Not all big men have to like big women....hence the skinnies in the hot girl thread. Not all big women have to like big men....hence the skinnies in the hot boy thread. It's all lighthearted banter, which is obviously appreciated due to the number of posts they've acquired.

I know you feel like you're being berrated here, Carl, but it seems strange to me that you've made such an issue out of this when, even though the majority of people on here are fat women, there's been no complaints like this about the hot girl thread. There's a lot of thin women on that thread too, many of them posted by fat women, but also by FAs - yet there's been no public outcry from the BBWs along the lines of "the FAs are posting pics of thin girls, they're supposed to like people like me....get them out and get this thread locked". I'm sure there are women on here who hate the hot girl thread, but they're not making a song and dance about it, just concentrating on the bits of Dims that interest them.

I'm sorry these threads aren't helping your personal self esteem issues, but like I said before, don't open them if you don't like what you see. Not everyone finds everyone attractive on here. I'm a BBW but not all the FAs think I'm hot, nor would I expect them to. I come here to feel that my size isn't an issue, not to be fawned over constantly. 

It seems a shame not to post now I've written all that (!) so I will, bloody hell knows it's taken me long enough to write! Getting off my soapbox now though!


----------



## olwen

Les Toil said:


> *In my opinion Carl has an extremely legit gripe. Let's face it, if a ton of FAs began posting mainly images of thin super models in a "Hot Chicks" thread, I have a feeling many of the women here would be a bit concerned that fat adoration isn't as strong here as it used to be. They might even go so far as to tell them there's thousands of skinny girl forums they can go and exchange pics at. I seriously doubt their attitude would be "To each his own. Your preference is your preference". *
> 
> The hot boys thread sends a clear message that because male FAs love big, plush female bodies doesn't necessarilly mean a BBW has to drool over big, plush male bodies. Never in my life have I ever dated or hung around a BBW that saw a fat dude in his trunks at the beach (or where ever) and said "OMG...he is beyond hot!". If the guy has a buff, muscular body, their heads will more-than-often turn in his direction.
> 
> That's why I agree with Carl that fat is accepted on the bodies of both men and women here on this great board, but it's undoubtably more _admired_ on the female form. At least that's what the Hot Boy thread says to me in no unclear terms.
> 
> "Dude stop being jealous and get over your insecurities."
> 
> I think Carl as well as most fat folks come here in hopes of getting over their insecurities.




It makes perfect sense for fat female bodies to be heavily appreciated on a site originally designed for the appreciation of said bodies. Duh. The bbws who posted in that thread didn't get upset at all. We had fun with it. It almost turned into a what skinny chick would you do kinda thing. So that argument doesn't hold water. Remember context.

Now if a troll happened upon this forum and said something like "I don't get the attraction here. You people are nuts, how can fat anything be hot when fat is so unhealthy and unattractive?" Then posted a pic of a skinny chick he thought was hot, I'd be upset because of the context. I'd be equally upset if a bbw or a bhm said the same thing - in that context. It's more upsetting for a bbw or bhm to say something so hateful not only towards me and every other fat person here, but towards herself/himself as well. In that context the spirit of acceptance is not being embraced and the malice with which it would be delivered is clear and my hurt reaction would be justified. But in a site designed for sexual expression of all invested participants, it stands to reason that said expression would vary greatly and should be acceptable as long as it is delivered in the positive spirit with which the site was intended. 

For bbws or bhms to express their love of the skinny people who love them or skinny people in general coincides with the positive message of size acceptance this site was designed for. 

Context people. Context.


----------



## Jack Skellington

olwen said:


> I'd like to point out to the overwhelming number of bbw's who posted pics of skinny chicks they think are pretty. I found that interesting.



Not to mention the vast majority of the pics in the hot girl thread are of thin women. No one batted an eye.


----------



## Les Toil

Okay, I just came back from the Hot Girls thread and I no longer have a leg to stand on in this thread. The majority of the FAs there posted images of skinny chicks just like the majority of the women posted lean guys in the Hot Boys thread. LMAO. As a guy who is ONLY turned on by the abundantly-proportioned female form, I'm even MORE confused by the FAs' contributions to that Hot Girls thread. Although one would assume the FAs here would be even happier if every person in both threads were to suddenly add some poundage. 

I guess it's as someone stated in this thread earlier...that there's slim pickin's for plus-sized celebs of EITHER gender.


----------



## Jack Skellington

Les Toil said:


> Okay, I just came back from the Hot Girls thread and I no longer have a leg to stand on in this thread.



Props to you Les. I really respect it when a person can admit they where wrong about something. 

Like I've been saying all along, the vast majority of women in the hot girl thread are thin. No one got upset, no drama, no nothing. Everybody had a good time. 

Thin guys in the hot guy thread equals drama. Go fig.



> I'm even MORE confused by the FAs' contributions to that Hot Girls thread



I posted pics of both thin and plus sized women. I just like da womenz.


----------



## Les Toil

olwen said:


> For bbws or bhms to express their love of the skinny people who love them or skinny people in general coincides with the positive message of size acceptance this site was designed for.
> 
> Context people. Context.



One would assume threads titled "Hot Girls/Boys" suggest these are the types of bodies one finds attractive..._hot_. I _love_ Jimmy Carter and Elenor Roosevelt, but I seriously doubt those two threads were meant for that type of love Olwen.

As you said, _context._


----------



## Les Toil

Jack Skellington said:


> I posted pics of both thin and plus sized women. I just like da womenz.



Sadly Jack I'm no better than your average dude that can't get a rise from big women (of course in my situation I just can't get a rise from _skinny women_. So in that sense you're a lucky man).

And I looooved your plus-size contribution to that thread Jack(I mean, seriously).


----------



## olwen

Les Toil said:


> One would assume threads titled "Hot Girls/Boys" suggest these are the types of bodies one finds attractive..._hot_. I _love_ Jimmy Carter and Elenor Roosevelt, but I seriously doubt those two threads were meant for that type of love Olwen.
> 
> As you said, _context._



Oh Pooh. If that's what _you _find hot then it certainly should be included in such a thread. No reason not to inlcude said pics. Would people do a double take, sure, but so what. And you can't decipher the context of a thread from the title alone. Often I click on one based solely on the title and find the thread title doesn't do justice to the posts within.


----------



## Chimpi

I can sort of see why you have an issue with the thread, Carl. However, the _only_ reason I can think of as to why I might have an issue with the thread is because of my own personal issue. I fall under the category as someone whom is tired of feeling sexually unattractive, even though I know that I cannot blame anyone for their sexual attraction. I merely just find it repetitive, and it can bring down my self-esteem some times. Though that is not always the case, I also recognize that it is my own personal issue, and cannot be placed upon the mercy of others.

I find that I'm not nearly fat enough for the "Female Fat Admirers", but that I am much too fat for the women whom find thin males attractive. I hold no judgment towards people having a certain sexual attraction or attraction at all based on certain or any body size. That's what they like, I like what I like, I employ the same respect for them as I wish them to do for me. Being a person "significantly obese" by medical standards, but not fat enough to have many of the women cooing over me in the BHM/FFA board, I can some times get lost in my own sorrow. Big deal, though. We all have our personal issues with things, and that's all it is for me - a personal issue.
Is it the same for you?

Yes, the "Hot Boy Thread" can give an impression that fat males are not the generally considered attractive male body type. However, that can only be said for the females/males that have posted in the thread. How many "Female Fat Admirers" have posted in the thread? Have you posted a picture of yourself in the thread, or asked others to do the same about you or them? Participation is key to making sure that everyone is not left out. The way I see it, though, is that you can be widely admired in the BHM/FFA board if you're looking to be found sexually attractive. Fat men, just like fat women, have hardly any place to go (though this trend is becoming more of a minority) to be found attractive (in any way). It's a shame that we have to come to a Forum to discuss all of the issues we widely discuss (though it's such a blessing as well) without the fear of being made example of, found disgusting, insulted, and sometimes worse...

I think it would be good to follow others' suggestion of just not going in the thread. That has worked for me. I pretty much avoid the "male attraction" threads of any kind ("Men show your ass", "Hot Boy Thread", blah blah blah) because of my personal issue.

And you are right, there are plenty of places to go to worship celebrities and find them attractive. Hell, you can pop in a movie and enjoy the look of the person with the story line, the other actors/actresses, the effects, and so many more things to enjoy with that attraction to that specific person. However, I find no issue with any of the people of this board making a thread about what they find attractive. At the least, it's only fair. I'm actually glad that there's only the one (arguably two) thread. 

I also noticed and understand that you do not take issue with people not finding fat men attractive. I understand that very well (both that you do not take issue with it and that many of the fat women I find attractive do not and will not find me attractive). I recognize, though, that it is a personal issue based on my own self-esteem and not something they should have to cater to. I think the thread is welcome on this site, as it does have something to do with Size Acceptance (this site is not just strictly/exclusively about Fat Acceptance) - Fat women find them attractive. 

One issue I take with your issue / this thread / this argument in general is that not enough of the BHM/FFA members take part in the rest of the boards. That is somewhat hypocritical of me to say, because I do not participate on that board as much as I should, but that's neither here nor there.  Would you feel better if more fat men were displayed in the "Hot Boy Thread"? Would you feel better if women in general (non-"Female Fat Admirer" types) posted more pictures of fat men in the "Hot Boy Thread"? Would you feel better if women you find attractive posted more pictures of fat men in the "Hot Boy Thread"?

I think it's also a very good suggestion to start your own thread. It's in The Lounge (the "Hot Boy Thread"). Post your own thread in The Lounge call ("Hot Fat Boy Thread") or something. It might be moved to BHM/FFA board, but hopefully you'll get the participation you might be looking for. I don't think it's an issue you should take with the fact that pictures of celebrities / thin males are being posted in that thread. I think it's more of an issue that "Female Fat Admirers" and other fat males aren't posting in that thread enough. Inject the Fat Acceptance in the thread without trying to that the thread away as a whole, see? That way others participating in the thread already can have fun with your participation, and hopefully others will be welcomed in the same.

In any case, it's very obvious with the replies in this thread that there are varied opinions. Many different suggestions from many different people. You have to choose what best suits you. In any case as well, I don't think issue should be taken with people posting images of thin males if that is what they find attractive. It's not nearly the majority of attraction found on Dimensions (fat in itself is the most widely accepted body size here). However, this is all my opinion, and you're welcome to agree or disagree.
Seeing it from another perspective, I shouldn't be limited to posting images of a certain conformed body type just because I find fat women attractive. I've never been censored on any other board I participate on (though the hostility is _much_ more common), and I don't think these women / men posting in the "Hot Boy Thread" should be censored, either.

*EDIT:* I also want to add that I don't think you should be censored of your opinion, either. I'm glad that you made this topic and spoke up about your issue with something regarding this site. I believe your opinion is welcome and I also believe that you have expressed your views quite well, with the exception of some points getting lost in translation and/or not being spoken quite clearly.


----------



## moore2me

Gingembre said:


> AARRRGGGGGHHHH! (sorry, just a scream of frustration!)
> 
> I was trying really hard not to post in this thread, because it seems to be going round in circles, and because I know I'm only about to say things that others have already said....maybe I'll just write a response and won't post. We'll see.
> 
> I do understand why you have a problem with the hot boy thread, but I don't understand why you're making it such an issue. Dimensions is a place of size acceptance. Yes there are a lot more fat women and thin male FAs than BHMs and thin FFAs, but that's just how it is. Sorry it's unbalanced, but there's not much we can do about that. So you object to the hot boy/hot girl threads.....I am struggling to understand why you just don't open them? This is what's getting me so worked up.
> 
> *Good point Gingembre, When there are Forums in DIMS I don't care for (Paysites), I just go somewhere else. Others seem to enjoy them, but they are not my cup of tea. I think Carl & others of a like mind who object to the "Hot Boys Thread could open a specific Forum to post a "Fat Men Appreciation Forum" if they are so inclined. I would visit and contribute some posts if they did.*
> 
> 
> Personally, I don't find weight gain erotic. So I don't really go on the erotic weight gain board. I'm also not American, neither are a significant amount of people on these boards......





TraciJo67 said:


> Carl, I know that you've explained it multiple times, but there seems to be something contradictory (or maybe just confusing to me) in what you are trying to say. I'm also puzzled as to why the Hot Boy thread bothers you. It seems that the message you are trying to convey is that we shouldn't be openly appreciative of thin, *fit*, attractive men ...
> 
> *TraciJoe, I have some fat men friends and relatives who are pretty darn fit. They are technically qualified as obese because our BMI scales are so peculiar. These guys have played football for years or they are used to hard physical labor, outside, in the Arkansas heat. *
> 
> . . . . . because men who aren't one or all of these things may feel offended or have hurt feelings.
> 
> Is that what you are trying to convey? And if so, why should we take responsibility for your feelings on this matter? I'm a thin(ner) woman. I know that most of the openly appreciative FA's who post at this site are not in the slightest bit attracted to my body type. So what? Lid for every pot, and all that. I can't blame someone for what he/she finds appealing. Not every woman is going to find you attractive, here or elsewhere. Some will. Those who don't ... their loss.



...........


----------



## fatgirlflyin

Les Toil said:


> Great example Ella. So clearly you can imagine how most BBW feel seeing time after time that a thin, ripped female body is desired by most males. And clearly we're seeing from the Hot Boys thread that thin, ripped male bodies are desired by most BBW.
> 
> Obviously BBW have the right to express a certain preference in male bods, and that's what they've done in the Hot Boys thread.
> 
> And IS there a Hot Chicks thread?? Link please.




Yup there is one around here somewhere. I contributed to it I think. 
http://dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40953

Actually come to think of it, I think it was mostly women that contributed to that thread.


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

Oh and my FAness has not been compromised from making that thread. If anything, that makes me even more of an FA, like, you know? 

Amrite? Srsly?

I made it for the BHM to contribute to and in response to something similar to what you posted Les. Y'know, how women would react to something like that and what not. I think it went over pretty well.


----------



## TraciJo67

*TraciJoe, I have some fat men friends and relatives who are pretty darn fit. They are technically qualified as obese because our BMI scales are so peculiar. These guys have played football for years or they are used to hard physical labor, outside, in the Arkansas heat. *

I haven't suggested that fat men cannot be fit and attractive. I was describing the type of men that Carl was expressing objections about, and that wasn't meant to be an observation about BHM's in any way.


----------



## Miss Vickie

TraciJo67 said:


> It's because you're old, Vickie. I strongly encourage you to start a thread, STAT!



Yep. It's my age. And my wrinkles. And my distinct _lack_ of fatness. 



Carl1h said:


> Because if I don't continue the discussion by replying to everyone's posts then they get back on later and accuse me of hurting their feelings by ignoring them. Or maybe they're just trying to score points off me by putting me in a damned if I reply, damned if I don't reply situation.



Damn, that's quite a chip you got on your shoulder, Carl. No wonder the hot boy thread pissed you off. But hey, way to miss my point entirely. Go, you!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Jack Skellington said:


> Wow, way to martyr yourself.
> 
> You know, just maybe, if people really want you to leave as you seem to think it probably wouldnt be because you are a BHM. It's because of your self victimizing grand standing.
> 
> Personally, I say stay and enjoy the boards and get to know the people here instead of giving your self a pity party because someone thinks Johnny Depp is cute.



You're on fire tonight, you hottie  



butch said:


> I think Carl has a point, as I have had feelings in the past very much like the ones he is mentioning. I'll only speak for me here, but I can say it isn't much fun to see 'hot boy' or 'hot girl' threads and rarely see people in there that look like you, even at a site for the fatties. I know, many of you say 'start your own thread' and all that, but that isn't quite the same as seeing someone else post a picture that suggests "Hey, I think someone who looks kinda like Butch is hot."



I was told of this site...and how it is "good to be fat" here. I found out that fat isn't enough for some....you need to be a certain size or shape. Should I go and make a post on the weight board attacking what guys over there find attractive...because some like women that don't look exactly like me? 
Nope....they can like what they like. I have no right to tell them that not liking an apple shape or women that weigh under 400 lbs is inappropriate. 
None of it is meant as a personal slight towards me....and as pointed out by others posters in this thread, my insecurities are ultimately my problem. 
Dimensions, as a whole, has helped my mindset and self-esteem. So what if EVERYONE doesn't find me attractive? If it mattered THAT much to me, then I would just go ahead and stop eating so I could be skinny aka "accepted" by the majority. 



LillyBBBW said:


> Apparently so Carl. I can count the number of FA's in the BHM board on one hand. Some will say, "Yeah, any girl will do as long as I like her personality," but lets be frank here. The BHM board is not the high falutin fat girl party it is everywhere else on this board. It is what it is. People describe their preference on there all the time and I can't get all bent out of shape about it, as long as they're not saying EEEW or something.
> 
> Does it feel like a hostile environment sometimes? Yes. But i can dig it because I don't believe in shutting people up or forcing people to profess things that are untrue. The ladies are posting pics of what they like. What do you want from them? We're not going to take the thread down or affix our desires in a way that pleases you. We don't expect you to do it. Go ahead and profess your love for Mischa Barton on the BHM board, just so long as it's respectful no one should interfere. We promise we won't go there and slobber all over Brad Pitt. Just because everybody on the BHM doesn't want to wallow in our folds doesn't mean some grave injustice is afoot. Censorship just isn't going to happen here.



Exactly- they get to like what they like. They get to talk about how attractive they find...not celebrities but real women on the board. Women that look NOTHING like me. Wow........holy gravy. Imagine..being able to like what you like without a shit storm. 




fa_man_stan said:


> Thanks for the kudos TJ... Just trying to have a heart is the most important thing...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blowing off some steam on occasion helps too!





fa_man_stan said:


> I'd probably get censored for doing that one...



Oh, that's too punny....errr funny...my bad.....


----------



## Tina

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You're on fire tonight, you hottie


Jackie's always on fire; it's the spite.  :wubu:

I just can't seem to get worked up about this. I mean, we all have our tastes, and some of us have varied tastes. I don't go for just one kind of guy. I like all races, weights, heights, eye and hair color, etc. Fantastic people come in a diversity of packages, so I'd never limit myself in that way. Are there some things I prefer? Yes, but they're not carved in stone.

Going back to Jack again. He said that no one batted an eye in the hot chicks thread, which is not only true, but many women participated.

I think we recognize that some of the guys here like "plus-size," which can also mean 'a little chunky.' But also, I think we can also understand that we can find people attractive -- or more accurately, I think, _recognize_ their attractiveness, without finding them sexually attractive and wanting to bed them.

I'm not threatened by the pics of thin women here, and cannot imagine being. Even if that's the only thing the guys here ever wanted to admire, I wouldn't be threatened. I'd just recognize that the board had changed and stay for my friends, but would certainly no longer think it was inhabited by FAs.


----------



## 1300 Class

> My point isn't that it's wrong to find them attractive, my point is that a Hot Boy (or Girl) celebrity thread isn't appropriate because it has nothing to do with fat acceptance and there are many (I linked 19 of them in one of my previous posts) other places to ogle attractive celebrities and only a few places to get away from that sort of thing.


Well we should close the lounge, hydepark, the weight board, the paysite board and the paysite board, because they have damn all to with "Fat _Acceptance_". 

Basically this comes down to what you and others deem acceptable or not. 

In the past there have been in opinion a number of threads in parts of the "weight board" that I thought crossed a line and were totally disusting and inappropriate, however, simply because it isn't "my bag" doesn't mean that everyone else agrees or views it as such. 

So in the end, if you disagree with a thread to such an extent ignore it, easy as that.


----------



## goofy girl

Just stop. That's it. Grow up. Nobody made a "hot" this or that thread to intentionally hurt anyone else, and nobody should be taking it personally. If it hurts you so much to see it, then avoid the thread-that's what the rest of us do with threads that don't interest us.


----------



## mergirl

The last time i checked, Dimensions was for "those with a preference for the large figure and the people who attract them."
it might sound a bit vauge but the "those who attract them", considering the previous part of the sentence, refers to big woman and men. 
This means that the "those who attract them" have just as much right to explore thier preferences, sexual or not with anyone they please..
And thank goodness that some of the "fat" people here DO sometimes have a preference for "non fat" people cause there are a hell of a lot of "non fat" Fa's out there!!
I think it boils down to an insecurity on some level, that people on dimensions should only profess thier fat love..so does this mean that the big women who think people like "johnny depp" should keep thier feelings in the closet?? NO WAY! 
sure, there are other sites with people fawning over celebs like him..because he is a sexy guy.. hell i prefer big women but i certainly wouldnt chuck J depp out of bed for farting!!
indeed..if the pics of the people some of the people on here make you feel sad or anoyed then just dont look..
"the people who attract them" have a right to discuss "the people who attract them" too!!

xmer


----------



## UncannyBruceman

Jack Skellington said:


> Not to mention there are plenty of thin women in the hot girl thread. Many of which posted by BHM btw and you don't see BBWs doing a "I hate the hot girl thread"



Actually, you do. There was an instance last year in which one particular lady (who was new to the boards) posted her disapproval of paysites and every jealous woman came out of the woodwork to support her on it. Not a single one of these women would have had it in them to post this on their own, so they waited for a new girl to do it, used her as a human shield, and rallied together for a discussion that ultimately turned into a two-week battle royal.


----------



## mergirl

UncannyBruceman said:


> Actually, you do. There was an instance last year in which one particular lady (who was new to the boards) posted her disapproval of paysites and every jealous woman came out of the woodwork to support her on it. Not a single one of these women would have had it in them to post this on their own, so they waited for a new girl to do it, used her as a human shield, and rallied together for a discussion that ultimately turned into a two-week battle royal.


i think jealousy and insecutity might be the crux of this whole discussion actually..

mer


----------



## TraciJo67

UncannyBruceman said:


> Actually, you do. There was an instance last year in which one particular lady (who was new to the boards) posted her disapproval of paysites and every jealous woman came out of the woodwork to support her on it. Not a single one of these women would have had it in them to post this on their own, so they waited for a new girl to do it, used her as a human shield, and rallied together for a discussion that ultimately turned into a two-week battle royal.



I remember that thread. And I remember supporting that person's right to express her feelings without being branded a troll (whether I agreed with what she said or not, she very definitely wasn't a troll). I can assure you, it had nothing whatsoever to do with jealousy. I'd lay odds, in fact, that jealousy wasn't an issue at all for anyone who had supportive things to say to a struggling new member -- someone who has more than redeemed herself, I might add, and proved to be a valuable and very well-liked asset within this community.

And ...how does this relate to the "hot boy" thread? I can't find even a tangential connection. Seems more an opportunity to take a stab at a few people.


----------



## Renaissance Woman

Carl1h said:


> Because if I don't continue the discussion by replying to everyone's posts then they get back on later and accuse me of hurting their feelings by ignoring them. Or maybe they're just trying to score points off me by putting me in a damned if I reply, damned if I don't reply situation.


This is a passive-aggressive response, and you're not directly answering the question. Don't try to make yourself into a martyr here, Carl. It's not going to work.


----------



## mergirl

Renaissance Woman said:


> This is a passive-aggressive response, and you're not directly answering the question. Don't try to make yourself into a martyr here, Carl. It's not going to work.


passive- agressive behaviour is a defence mechanism. So maby we need to reasure carl he is not being attacked or if he is then maby we need to stop attacking him! 

xmer


----------



## mergirl

i mean the royal "we"

xmer


----------



## The Fez

mergirl said:


> i think jealousy and insecutity might be the crux of this whole discussion actually..
> 
> mer



Flawless Victory!

I completly agree, though I think insecurity has more to do with it than jealousy, even if the two might be closely linked on this topic.


----------



## mergirl

Freestyle Fez said:


> Flawless Victory!
> 
> I completly agree, though I think insecurity has more to do with it than jealousy, even if the two might be closely linked on this topic.


indeed.. i agree that insecurity has more to do with it.. though i realised my typo and muchly enjoyed my freudian slip of "inse-cutity".. which both encompasses insecurity and jealousy i feel..
i need to add that to the mer pish dictionary!

xxmer


----------



## The Fez

Haha yeah I noticed that; I'll refer to myself as insecute rather than insecure from now on!


----------



## mergirl

Freestyle Fez said:


> Haha yeah I noticed that; I'll refer to myself as insecute rather than insecure from now on!


haha.. yes you must..it makes people want to hug you even more!!

xmer


----------



## bigplaidpants

I'm just sayin...

I've seen countless conversations move like this - in real time and on the net - regardless of content.

Perhaps, just perhaps, the subject matter has nothing to do with it.

Just sayin...

(I don't expect any reps for an annoying post like this.)


----------



## Jack Skellington

UncannyBruceman said:


> Actually, you do. There was an instance last year in which one particular lady (who was new to the boards) posted her disapproval of paysites and every jealous woman came out of the woodwork to support her on it. Not a single one of these women would have had it in them to post this on their own, so they waited for a new girl to do it, used her as a human shield, and rallied together for a discussion that ultimately turned into a two-week battle royal.



Here you go.



TraciJo67 said:


> And ...how does this relate to the "hot boy" thread? I can't find even a tangential connection. Seems more an opportunity to take a stab at a few people.


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

In third grade, I cheated on my history exam. In fourth grade, I stole my uncle Max's toupee and I glued it on my face when I was Moses in my Hebrew School play. In fifth grade, I knocked my sister Edie down the stairs and I blamed it on the dog... When my mom sent me to the summer camp for fat kids and then they served lunch I got nuts and I pigged out and they kicked me out... But the worst thing I ever done - I mixed a pot of fake puke at home and then I went to this movie theater, hid the puke in my jacket, climbed up to the balcony and then, t-t-then, I made a noise like this: hua-hua-hua-huaaaaaaa - and then I dumped it over the side, all over the people in the audience. And then, this was horrible, all the people started getting sick and throwing up all over each other. I never felt so bad in my entire life. 

and that is how I can relate to this whole issue.


----------



## RedVelvet

Carl1h said:


> I'm trying to address the point of BHMs in general feel comfortable coming to the other boards here. Your point isn't that I should go away because we disagree, you said just the opposite, but she said I should go away, and I wanted to point that out. Go away, isn't really the way to get wider participation.
> 
> I'm sorry if my bombastic grandstanding put you off. I didn't realize the simple homespun nature of the rhetoric you're usually used to.
> 
> Wait, are you saying that there are people who don't think Johnny Depp is cute? You understand that I'm not arguing that they aren't cute, or that people can't like whoever they like, right? I'm just saying that with so many sites dedicated to celebrity worship, does it need to be here too?




Ok....perspective is needed here.

Have you taken a good look around this board? You know its just chock full of fantasy that disturbs a GOODLY chunk of the people here, right?

Force feeding and immobilization and death and making someone sit in their own filth and stuff? 

Thats protected here....and the people who enjoy it get to enjoy it with the barest minimum of flack from those who hate it...(oh but they do whine like wounded puppies should their fantasy be trod apon...)

This site is a fecking MINEFIELD of stuff that is actually painful and shaming and disturbing to people...including me, and I stay here anyway and keep to the areas I like and avoid others and somehow get along...

You are bugged about people posting hot thin men?

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?

I don't give a damn how many celeb sites there are on the fecking web...there gets to be a thread on the fatty site too...

And yes....somehow, somehow....you shall have to manage it.

I will cope with the grotesque crapola that pours in here like a fountain of so much warm spooge...and you will somehow cope with the fecking hot boi thread.

I know you can do it.


----------



## moore2me

BothGunsBlazing said:


> In third grade, I cheated on my history exam. In fourth grade, I stole my uncle Max's toupee and I glued it on my face when I was Moses in my Hebrew School play. In fifth grade, I knocked my sister Edie down the stairs and I blamed it on the dog... When my mom sent me to the summer camp for fat kids and then they served lunch I got nuts and I pigged out and they kicked me out... But the worst thing I ever done - I mixed a pot of fake puke at home and then I went to this movie theater, hid the puke in my jacket, climbed up to the balcony and then, t-t-then, I made a noise like this: hua-hua-hua-huaaaaaaa - and then I dumped it over the side, all over the people in the audience. And then, this was horrible, all the people started getting sick and throwing up all over each other. I never felt so bad in my entire life.
> 
> and that is how I can relate to this whole issue.




Must think . . . .Hmmmm (M2M furrows her little brows in deep ponderfication) . . . .does dumping fake vomit and making wretching noises in a theater qualify as yelling fire? . . . . . .This question has never come up before in my safety seminars. I must ask one of my college professors or maybe call Federal OSHA or the Fire Marshall. I will get back with you on this. You are certainly a pesky rascal BothGuns!

Now back to the hot boi thread. Oh by the way - the guys at the Fire Dept are pretty nice IMHO.


----------



## Jack Skellington

RedVelvet said:


> Ok....perspective is needed here.
> 
> Have you taken a good look around this board? You know its just chock full of fantasy that disturbs a GOODLY chunk of the people here, right?
> 
> Force feeding and immobilization and death and making someone sit in their own filth and stuff?
> 
> Thats protected here....and the people who enjoy it get to enjoy it with the barest minimum of flack from those who hate it...(oh but they do whine like wounded puppies should their fantasy be trod apon...)
> 
> This site is a fecking MINEFIELD of stuff that is actually painful and shaming and disturbing to people...including me, and I stay here anyway and keep to the areas I like and avoid others and somehow get along...
> 
> You are bugged about people posting hot thin men?
> 
> ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?
> 
> I don't give a damn how many celeb sites there are on the fecking web...there gets to be a thread on the fatty site too...
> 
> And yes....somehow, somehow....you shall have to manage it.
> 
> I will cope with the grotesque crapola that pours in here like a fountain of so much warm spooge...and you will somehow cope with the fecking hot boi thread.
> 
> I know you can do it.



You are SO getting rep for that.


----------



## Jane

Jack Skellington said:


> You are SO getting rep for that.



Well, if I had known she had already been repped (looking around for my huff)...I would have anyway.


----------



## Jane

And, while we're at it...the Bi-Sizual polls for FA's only:

I am only attracted to fat bodies 49 33.11% 
I am attracted to bodies of all sizes (thin and fat) 99 66.89% 

For a fat site, there sure do seem to be a lot to like slender people as well. Personally, I like people. I've gone with men of various sizes, shapes, heights...but what they had in common was: (Drumroll)...I like the way their minds work.

No poll for that, is there?


----------



## UncannyBruceman

TraciJo67 said:


> And ...how does this relate to the "hot boy" thread? I can't find even a tangential connection. Seems more an opportunity to take a stab at a few people.



Yup. And you're the one doing the stabbing. If you read the post that I had replied to, you'd clearly see that Jack Skellington said this..

_Not to mention there are plenty of thin women in the hot girl thread. Many of which posted by BHM btw and you don't see BBWs doing a "I hate the hot girl thread"_

So if you remember the thread I referred to, then you'd also remember that the thread was a sugar-coated insult to the paysite women who populate these forums.

For a site dedicated to fat admiration, we sure do have a lot of thin-skinned people.


----------



## Jack Skellington

UncannyBruceman said:


> So if you remember the thread I referred to, then you'd also remember that the thread was a sugar-coated insult to the paysite women who populate these forums.



Apples and oranges. 

That thread was about someone's personal issues with adult material/porn. Which they appologized for (several times) and admitted it was _their_ issue. 

Not the same thing as this and is pointless to keep bringing it back.


----------



## TraciJo67

UncannyBruceman said:


> Yup. And you're the one doing the stabbing. If you read the post that I had replied to, you'd clearly see that Jack Skellington said this..
> 
> _Not to mention there are plenty of thin women in the hot girl thread. Many of which posted by BHM btw and you don't see BBWs doing a "I hate the hot girl thread"_
> 
> So if you remember the thread I referred to, then you'd also remember that the thread was a sugar-coated insult to the paysite women who populate these forums.
> 
> For a site dedicated to fat admiration, we sure do have a lot of thin-skinned people.




I really don't wish to drudge that ancient bit of past history up. I do remember that thread, I did read what Jack Skellington wrote, and I stand by what I said: Your reference to that ancient, rusty old thread has about as much to do with this current topic as would ... oh, say a discussion about thermodynamics.


----------



## Surlysomething

I like Big guys, so I mainly post big guys.


but I can totally appreciate aesthetic beauty in anyone. Male/female/fat/thin/average/black/white/pink hair/brown hair. I don't think it's a big deal. And I agree that there aren't many BHM celebrities which makes it tough to put a lot up there. (but I try when I run across them :eat2: )


----------



## UncannyBruceman

It's apparently not pointless if we needed anything clarified. I'm well aware that the person who started had apologized for what was said. And I'm not looking to demonize anyone (you know, kinda like how most of you like to do with me). But the fact remains that many interpreted it as an "I hate paysite girls" thread at first, which would explain why the debate took as many turns and lasted as long as it did.

It's amazing how fast I'm reminded why I need breaks from this fuckin' place. You guys can go back to fighting among yourselves, I'm done with my involvement in this one.


----------



## Jack Skellington

UncannyBruceman said:


> It's amazing how fast I'm reminded why I need breaks from this fuckin' place. You guys can go back to fighting among yourselves, I'm done with my involvement in this one.



One less martyr in this thread is fine with me.


----------



## Spanky

TraciJo67 said:


> Oh no you di'int just call me old.
> 
> I'm going to start a thread about being made to feel less than welcome because I'm not 20. Oh yes, I am. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow ... but soon, most likely.*........ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ**
> 
> <traciJolape falls asleep>



*edited for more cheap age jokes in a sea of .....uh.....what sea are we in right now??


----------



## RedVelvet

Jack Skellington said:


> One less martyr in this thread is fine with me.




Wait a sec...did he just come in here...stir shite up about an ancient thread...get a response and then leave again in his fancy Huff-with-the-fringe-on-top?

REALLY?

(clapping hands with delight)


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

actually, y'know, I am pretty satisfied with how things have been around here lately .. definitely a distinct lack of .. something .. hm, what could it be .. 

all I know is they were joined in holy matrimony.


----------



## Friday

UncannyBruceman said:


> Yup. And you're the one doing the stabbing. If you read the post that I had replied to, you'd clearly see that Jack Skellington said this..
> 
> _Not to mention there are plenty of thin women in the hot girl thread. Many of which posted by BHM btw and you don't see BBWs doing a "I hate the hot girl thread"_
> 
> So if you remember the thread I referred to, then you'd also remember that the thread was a sugar-coated insult to the paysite women who populate these forums.
> 
> For a site dedicated to fat admiration, we sure do have a lot of thin-skinned people.



The non-paysite women that populate these forums far out number those that are pay-site so I see absolutely no connection here at all. And excuse me? Was this site not for size acceptance as well as fat admiration? All sizes, any sizes? Or we are we just the fat mirror image of those that demand everyone be skinny?


----------



## Friday

RedVelvet said:


> Wait a sec...did he just come in here...stir shite up about an ancient thread...get a response and then leave again in his fancy Huff-with-the-fringe-on-top?
> 
> REALLY?
> 
> (clapping hands with delight)



How did Mossy's sig go awhile back...something about canned meat sho' do stink up the place...


----------



## SocialbFly

Friday said:


> The non-paysite women that populate these forums far out number those that are pay-site so I see absolutely no connection here at all. And excuse me? Was this site not for size acceptance as well as fat admiration? All sizes, any sizes? Or we are we just the fat mirror image of those that demand everyone be skinny?



Ohh that was quite elloquently posted...


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

I've been popping in and reading bits and pieces of this thread. 

QUESTION:

What I'm getting is that the OP is pissed off because people have posted pics in the hot boy thread... who are thin??? Am I getting that right???

That is the absolute stupidest thing I have EVER heard.

If you don't like the thread, THEN DON'T READ IT!!!!!!!!!

Simple as that. 

And if you can't do that, then take your marbles and go home. 
The rest of us are staying.

*Violet walks away shaking her head*


----------



## CAMellie

Violet_Beauregard said:


> I've been popping in and reading bits and pieces of this thread.
> 
> QUESTION:
> 
> What I'm getting is that the OP is pissed off because people have posted pics in the hot boy thread... who are thin??? Am I getting that right???
> 
> That is the absolute stupidest thing I have EVER heard.
> 
> If you don't like the thread, THEN DON'T READ IT!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Simple as that.
> 
> And if you can't do that, then take your marbles and go home.
> The rest of us are staying.
> 
> *Violet walks away shaking her head*



Rep given with an amen!


----------



## irish_redhead

BothGunsBlazing said:


> In third grade, I cheated on my history exam. In fourth grade, I stole my uncle Max's toupee and I glued it on my face when I was Moses in my Hebrew School play. In fifth grade, I knocked my sister Edie down the stairs and I blamed it on the dog... When my mom sent me to the summer camp for fat kids and then they served lunch I got nuts and I pigged out and they kicked me out... But the worst thing I ever done - I mixed a pot of fake puke at home and then I went to this movie theater, hid the puke in my jacket, climbed up to the balcony and then, t-t-then, I made a noise like this: hua-hua-hua-huaaaaaaa - and then I dumped it over the side, all over the people in the audience. And then, this was horrible, all the people started getting sick and throwing up all over each other. I never felt so bad in my entire life.
> 
> and that is how I can relate to this whole issue.



ROFL!

:bow:

_Repped for a fellow Goonies fan. _


----------



## name2come

Is there actually a discussion going on about how the problem at Dimensions is the objectification of MEN?

Really? That's actually happening?

Really?


----------



## Shosh

Well I guess that I am the person in question who is being discussed here in regards to that infamous thread.
I have never hated or wanted to insult anybody, let's just put that on the record. I objected to a very crude comment that was written by a man and posted on the paysite board. Yes I understand it is the paysite board, but those leaving comments can do so in a manner that is not lewd and cringeworthy.
I did feel uncomfortable with the images at the time as I believed that women should be admired in a tasteful manner. That is all. 
Can I also just say that several of the friends on my MySpace page are paysite girls. 
I believe this is being rehashed in response to another thread that I responded to last week urging this person to give people a chance to respond to the American Airlines thread before condeming the majority of people here as not caring about size acceptance, and being apathetic etc.
This latest dig at me is all about that. Nothing more.
Where am I at with the paysite board now? I look at it every day and I like to see some of the dear friends I have made here looking beautiful in their pictures.
This issue I shall not revisit again.


----------



## UncannyBruceman

Susannah said:


> Well I guess that I am the person in question who is being discussed here in regards to that infamous thread.
> I have never hated or wanted to insult anybody, let's just put that on the record. I objected to a very crude comment that was written by a man and posted on the paysite board. Yes I understand it is the paysite board, but those leaving comments can do so in a manner that is not lewd and cringeworthy.
> I did feel uncomfortable with the images at the time as I believed that women should be admired in a tasteful manner. That is all.



And I agree with you 100%, Susannah. I don't care for the crude comments, either, and I know that you did NOT intend to insult anyone with it. You're okay in my book.

But what about the women who used your thread as an opportunity to snipe paysite girls because they generally garnish more attention? THAT'S what I was getting at. Some of them are apparently posting in THIS thread, and they're angry that I reminded everyone of an ugly part of Dimensions past. Jack Skellington states that there was never an I Hate Hot Girls thread in Dimensions, and when he said that, the first thing that came to mind were the people who mutated your post into a weapon against the women who brought the traffic these forums needed to grow and flourish.

I was GOING to let this thread go, but I changed my mind. I'm not going to let you clowns get off this easily. Thus far, the only defense you have is that Susannah's thread was "old". That's it. That's the stupidest fuckin' third grade excuse I've ever heard (and you think I'M immature). So, because the thread is old, that means none of the women who intentionally spoke poorly against paysite girls should be held accountable for it? By that logic, we should forget about hateful comments made by politicians and personas in film and media as long as it was made outside the 365 day time frame. Sounds more to me that some women feel threatened by paysite girls. And even though you outnumber them, a good portion of them still monitor these boards, which would explain why very few of you have the guts to challenge them and then want to spin the subject and make ME look bad when I remind them.

As for Carl, he's a good guy. I've had the opportunity to speak with him privately and just seems to me that everyone wants to jump him for speaking his mind. But not to take sides; if he truly feels left out at Dimensions, then all he needs to do visit the BHM boards. Then again, what if his posting was inspired by something else? How many of you girls complain about men objectifying women on the paysite boards? Could it possibly be that Carl felt the same way when you girls were taking turns posting pictures of your crushes and drooling over them?

A lot of you people just need to relax and hug it out or something. Attend an event if you're that desperate for attention...but don't grill me because you don't get it. Look inwards and figure it out for yourselves.

No hard feelings, Susannah. Or Carl. But everyone else?.....


----------



## The Fez

UncannyBruceman said:


> A lot of you people just need to relax



you included, apparently.


----------



## Shosh

I wonder what Buffie thinks about all this? She started the thread just for fun. Buff is awesome. She is really nice and funny. She is one of my girls on MySpace.

Buffie is BBW royalty.:bow:


----------



## moore2me

Susannah said:


> I wonder what Buffie thinks about all this? She started the thread just for fun. Buff is awesome. She is really nice and funny. She is one of my girls on MySpace.
> 
> Buffie is BBW royalty.:bow:



And Sussanah is the Audrey Hepburn of DIMS.


----------



## TraciJo67

UncannyBruceman said:


> But what about *the hags *who used your thread as an opportunity to snipe paysite girls because they generally garnish more attention? THAT'S what I was getting at. Some of them are apparently posting in THIS thread, and they're angry that I reminded everyone of an ugly part of Dimensions past. Jack Skellington states that there was never an I Hate Hot Girls thread in Dimensions, and when he said that, the first thing that came to mind were the people who mutated your post into a weapon against the women who brought the traffic these forums needed to grow and flourish....



Oh, the irony. A man who professes to love women, calling out select women as "hags" 

Bruce, I don't know you. I don't know a thing about you. We have no history to speak of. I don't recall ever speaking to you (and would, based on what I've seen here, be quite pleased to continue that practice). I objected to what appeared to me to be a nebulous reason to bring ancient history into this thread. I still don't get it, although with each word you speak, I'm getting a much clearer picture. 

Do you honestly think that our lovely paysite models need *you* to protect their interests, though? Do you? Really? How very paternalistic of you. Downright patriotic, even. 

As for me, I'll continue sitting on that other couch, with my hagalicious homegirls. We don't need no steenkin' protection. We've brought our own


----------



## ThikJerseyChik

fa_man_stan said:


> Thanks for the kudos TJ... Just trying to have a heart is the most important thing...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blowing off some steam on occasion helps too!



Now THAT is ONE HOT TIN BOY! woohooooooo!


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

UncannyBruceman said:


> A lot of you people just need to relax and hug it out or something. Attend an event if you're that desperate for attention...



Relax and hug it out? You do realize this is the equivalent of telling people off and than going LOL ROFL but I'm fine, I couldn't be happier, time to go sit on my porch! LOL  People just need to stop being so angry!


----------



## NancyGirl74

UncannyBruceman said:


> But what about the hags who used your thread as an opportunity to snipe paysite girls because they generally garnish more attention? THAT'S what I was getting at. Some of them are apparently posting in THIS thread, and they're angry that I reminded everyone of an ugly part of Dimensions past. Jack Skellington states that there was never an I Hate Hot Girls thread in Dimensions, and when he said that, the first thing that came to mind were the people who mutated your post into a weapon against the women who brought the traffic these forums needed to grow and flourish.



Not to pick a fight but I remember that moment in time a bit differently. Heated debate? Yes. Hags? No. People who jumped all over the Original Poster of that thread for having a controversial opinion? Oh yeah. Is this thread anything like that other one? Maybe, in a way but nearly as heated or angry. Not to diminish the valid feelings on this thread, but no one here is calling this OP a troll or "it". No one is telling this OP he should pack it up and leave Dimensions forever. It will be interesting to see when all is said and done if Carl's loudest protesters turn around and call him "friend" months from now when the next controversial thread arises like those adamant debaters on the "other" thread call Susannah now.

Also, if by mutating a post that means supporting the posters right to say what they feel is important even when the masses disapprove of what is being said then I guess I am one of those "hags". Personally, I think mutating a thread might be more along the lines of someone taking a dead issue, one that is totally unrelated to the topic at hand and using it as a weapon in some sort of personal vendetta. 

But no hard feelings....


----------



## ThikJerseyChik

TraciJo67 said:


> Oh, the irony. A man who professes to love women, calling out select women as "hags"
> 
> As for me, I'll continue sitting on that other couch, with my hagalicious homegirls. We don't need no steenkin' protection. We've brought our own



HAGALICIOUS HOMEGIRLS....you are gettin' repped for that! lmao!


----------



## RedVelvet

UncannyBruceman said:


> I was GOING to let this thread go, but I changed my mind. I'm not going to let you clowns get off this easily.
> 
> 
> A lot of you people just need to relax and hug it out or something.






Freestyle Fez said:


> you included, apparently.




Oh Mr. Fez. I do like you already.


----------



## RedVelvet

BothGunsBlazing said:


> Relax and hug it out? You do realize this is the equivalent of telling people off and than going LOL ROFL but I'm fine, I couldn't be happier, time to go sit on my porch! LOL  People just need to stop being so angry!




No no no....HE gets to fight and tell off people, be pissed and defensive, etc..call people names... ...(seems his fancy huff has an amazingly small turning radius)..but WE are the ones that need to take it and then, um.... relax, or something.


(I don't think I participated in the original Infamous Thread...I could be wrong......I do remember it tho...whew..)

I guess I am just a hag by default.

Awesome!....I get to sit next to Traci!


Hay Traci! Did you know the meaning of Hag is "Wise Woman"? True thing! An Old Hag was a woman good with herbs and healing...or a witch, depending on how stupid the populace was in the near vicinity.

Just saying.


----------



## RedVelvet

TraciJo67 said:


> Oh, the irony. A man who professes to love women, calling out select women as "hags"
> 
> Bruce, I don't know you. I don't know a thing about you. We have no history to speak of. I don't recall ever speaking to you (and would, based on what I've seen here, be quite pleased to continue that practice). I objected to what appeared to me to be a nebulous reason to bring ancient history into this thread. I still don't get it, although with each word you speak, I'm getting a much clearer picture.
> 
> Do you honestly think that our lovely paysite models need *you* to protect their interests, though? Do you? Really? How very paternalistic of you. Downright patriotic, even.
> 
> As for me, I'll continue sitting on that other couch, with my hagalicious homegirls. We don't need no steenkin' protection. We've brought our own




effing rep rules grumble grumble


----------



## TraciJo67

RedVelvet said:


> Hay Traci! Did you know the meaning of Hag is "Wise Woman"? True thing! An Old Hag was a woman good with herbs and healing...or a witch, depending on how stupid the populace was in the near vicinity.
> 
> Just saying.



Well, Arv ... much as I'd like to take your word for it (being how wise you are 'n all) I did do a quick search over at my electronic pal's house ... www.dictionary.com. Entry #973, or thereabouts, gives this Webster's Abridged definition:

*2. Any mucilaginous substance; any substance of a dirty nature, that is moist, soft, and adhesive. *

I now find that I just can't argue with The Bruce (who is, surely, important enough for an implied title). If that be a hag, then a hag I do be. 

Heh. I said doobie.


----------



## RedVelvet

TraciJo67 said:


> Well, Arv ... much as I'd like to take your word for it (being how wise you are 'n all) I did do a quick search over at my electronic pal's house ... www.dictionary.com. Entry #973, or thereabouts, gives this Webster's Abridged definition:
> 
> *2. Any mucilaginous substance; any substance of a dirty nature, that is moist, soft, and adhesive. *
> 
> I now find that I just can't argue with The Bruce (who is, surely, important enough for an implied title). If that be a hag, then a hag I do be.
> 
> Heh. I said doobie.





Sticky, mud-like wise woman then? 

(also, you are wrong..but thats ok....you are just one of them oversensitive wimmins with the vaginas)


----------



## Surlysomething

What is this thread about again? I'm getting confused.

Pictures bad? 


Can someone break it down for me. Haha.


----------



## TraciJo67

RedVelvet said:


> you are just one of them oversensitive wimmins with the vaginas)



... a dirty, moist, soft and adhesive vagina ... and don't you forget it


----------



## wrestlingguy

UncannyBruceman said:


> And I agree with you 100%, Susannah. I don't care for the crude comments, either, and I know that you did NOT intend to insult anyone with it. You're okay in my book.
> 
> But what about the hags who used your thread as an opportunity to snipe paysite girls because they generally garnish more attention? THAT'S what I was getting at. Some of them are apparently posting in THIS thread, and they're angry that I reminded everyone of an ugly part of Dimensions past. Jack Skellington states that there was never an I Hate Hot Girls thread in Dimensions, and when he said that, the first thing that came to mind were the people who mutated your post into a weapon against the women who brought the traffic these forums needed to grow and flourish.
> 
> I was GOING to let this thread go, but I changed my mind. I'm not going to let you clowns get off this easily. Thus far, the only defense you have is that Susannah's thread was "old". That's it. That's the stupidest fuckin' third grade excuse I've ever heard (and you think I'M immature). So, because the thread is old, that means none of the women who intentionally spoke poorly against paysite girls should be held accountable for it? By that logic, we should forget about hateful comments made by politicians and personas in film and media as long as it was made outside the 365 day time frame. Sounds more to me that some women feel threatened by paysite girls. And even though you outnumber them, a good portion of them still monitor these boards, which would explain why very few of you have the guts to challenge them and then want to spin the subject and make ME look bad when I remind them.
> 
> As for Carl, he's a good guy. I've had the opportunity to speak with him privately and just seems to me that everyone wants to jump him for speaking his mind. But not to take sides; if he truly feels left out at Dimensions, then all he needs to do visit the BHM boards. Then again, what if his posting was inspired by something else? How many of you girls complain about men objectifying women on the paysite boards? Could it possibly be that Carl felt the same way when you girls were taking turns posting pictures of your crushes and drooling over them?
> 
> A lot of you people just need to relax and hug it out or something. Attend an event if you're that desperate for attention...but don't grill me because you don't get it. Look inwards and figure it out for yourselves.
> 
> No hard feelings, Susannah. Or Carl. But everyone else?.....



Bruce, there's another thread on this same board about feeling "left out" at Dimensions. In your case, I believe it's a choice. You speak your mind, and some people object to it, and you react to what you see as attacking you, rather than your thought, and you then become "left out", as you choose to leave. I think the point to be made here is that just because you may not like the messenger, that doesn't mean that the message is wrong.

Bruce, I know you well. We arrive at the same conclusions often, although we often get there in different ways. I agree that the personal snipes at the paysite girls are unwarranted & childish, especially when one looks at the reasoning behind it. In my opinion, some of the same women who were pissing on Carl were guilty of doing the same thing themselves, albeit on a different thread and different board. I'm very sorry, but I don't see how you can have your cake & eat it too. Those who I'm referring to know exactly who they are.

Traci Jo, I don't know you at all. I've agreed with most of your posts. In this case, however, I think you're fatally wrong. Bruce's calling some of the women "hags" is based on his 8+ years of frustration with many of the same people he encounters with the same problem, over...and over....and over....and over, ad nauseum. You time here has not allowed you to see that. His calling those select women "hags" is no different than my calling some FA's "assholes", as I do on my signature, and it's based on my almost 10 years here (on and off), and unless you knew me better, you wouldn't understand why that is on my profile signature. I would also venture that FA's that encounter me think that I am a bullying prick who is condescending & downright nasty. People who know me from the various events know that isn't the case. Guys who are assholes because of how they treat women think I suck, and I'm fine with that, but they only know one dimension of me, and that is the one that reminds them why they're assholes. Another example of why the internet sucks.

I look at some of the paysite models in Dims who have real lives, and actually contribute more than just photos to this community, like some of the mods, and active posters like Hottie Megan, Buffie, and too many others to mention. Yet (and I don't think that they necessarily need defending), I think they're damned if they don't post in other forums, and they're damned if they reach out into Hyde Park, or the Lounge, as if they have no right to be there. I'm jus' callin' 'em like I see 'em, sorry if it offends.

My wife Carla knows many people from this area personally. Not a weekend goes by where someone from this community isn't spending a weekend at our townhouse. Those who know her know she is more than just her pics on her website, or here in Dimensions. *That* is the difference between the internet, and real life. I like to think they're with us because they actually *like* us as friends, and the fact they return likely proves that point.

I disagree with a lot of people on the boards here, but I'm never disrespectful, unless I, or someone close to me is disrespected first. I hope before anyone points fingers at Bruce, one of the more active fat supporters in this community, they really take the time to talk with him and understand his perspective.

I'm done........


----------



## RedVelvet

Gonna let Traci respond, of course..but WG.....I don't think Traci is saying that ALL paysite women contribute nothing else anywhere else.

Of course many do....many.

And Bruce? I cant tell you how many times I have enjoyed his posts....IN SPITE of him being a very vocal feeder (my big time bugaboo bias), and thought him very funny and on the spot.

And of course..REAL life changes everything doesn't it? I'm guessing that the people that know me in real life know me as a wholly different person than those who know me here....so....you have a different perspective.


Meanwhile tho...Bruce is saying we all suck for this or that...whilst engaging in the behavior he condemns itself. And what he says, as in, the STYLE in which he says it, smacks of more than just a whiff of misogyny....which I realize in just saying that condemns ME to a perception of being an "over sensitive Dims Bitch"....etc....etc...etc.

no win situation, WG...He will see certain woman here as prudish biddies who hate anyone who expresses themselves with their bodies....and he will be seen as an arrogant man with a chip on his shoulder and a sense of male entitlement that calls for name calling and "place putting" should it not go his way.

Neither of which is actually true...


(ahem...most likely..)


----------



## wrestlingguy

> Meanwhile tho...Bruce is saying we all suck for this or that...whilst engaging in the behavior he condemns itself. And what he says, as in, the STYLE in which he says it, smacks of more than just a whiff of misogyny....which I realize in just saying that condemns ME to a perception of being an "over sensitive Dims Bitch"....etc....etc...etc.
> 
> no win situation, WG...He will see certain woman here as prudish biddies who hate anyone who expresses themselves with their bodies....and he will be seen as an arrogant man with a chip on his shoulder and a sense of male entitlement that calls for name calling and "place putting" should it not go his way.
> 
> Neither of which is actually true...
> (ahem...most likely..)



Hey Red, I'm a dumb country boy now, so I must've missed the part where Bruce said you all suck. Help me out here & show it to me.

You know the old saying "even a broken clock is right twice a day". Now I'm not tellin' ya that Brucie is wrong most of the time, or even part of the time. I'm just saying that when someone walks into a room, and every time they walk in they get hit in the head with a bat, they are gonna annouce that they don't want to get hit on the head anymore, and they stop coming into the room (for a while, at least). And if & when they come back, and tell the folks hitting them on the head that they suck, the other people in the room shouldn't feel offended, unless of course they partook in the bat beating.


----------



## Jack Skellington

UncannyBruceman said:


> spin the subject and make ME look bad when I remind them.



You are the only one making you look bad and you are the only one trying to spin this topic into an unrelated one.


----------



## RedVelvet

wrestlingguy said:


> Hey Red, I'm a dumb country boy now, so I must've missed the part where Bruce said you all suck. Help me out here & show it to me.
> 
> You know the old saying "even a broken clock is right twice a day". Now I'm not tellin' ya that Brucie is wrong most of the time, or even part of the time. I'm just saying that when someone walks into a room, and every time they walk in they get hit in the head with a bat, they are gonna annouce that they don't want to get hit on the head anymore, and they stop coming into the room (for a while, at least). And if & when they come back, and tell the folks hitting them on the head that they suck, the other people in the room shouldn't feel offended, unless of course they partook in the bat beating.





Ah...hmm...sarcasm...Ok...."dumb country boy".

Ya lost me right from the start with the sarcasm thing.

Nevermind, WG...you go on....

You are assuming a verbal version of beatings took place...I realize its metaphor, but thats a bit....much.

.... Me...I just think its a message board on the internet......and people disagreed with him, and vocally...not exactly a beating. 


Again...I grasp that its metaphor, but its a perfect example of the small being blown utterly out of all sense of perspective....by virtue of the nature of message boards themselves, you know?


This is becoming, as these things do, a rather ridiculous clusterfuck of abstraction. To parse this fucker any more is to give it far, FAR more importance than it deserves.

You get to defend your friend, I get to defend mine....but after a certain point...it starts to feel kinda silly.

I've hit silly.


----------



## TraciJo67

wrestlingguy said:


> Hey Red, I'm a dumb country boy now, so I must've missed the part where Bruce said you all suck. Help me out here & show it to me.
> 
> You know the old saying "even a broken clock is right twice a day". Now I'm not tellin' ya that Brucie is wrong most of the time, or even part of the time. I'm just saying that when someone walks into a room, and every time they walk in they get hit in the head with a bat, they are gonna annouce that they don't want to get hit on the head anymore, and they stop coming into the room (for a while, at least). And if & when they come back, and tell the folks hitting them on the head that they suck, the other people in the room shouldn't feel offended, unless of course they partook in the bat beating.




Well, I wasn't the one wielding the bat, nor was Arv. And Bruce hasn't shared his version of who the "hags" vs "non-hags" are (and this isn't an open invitation for him to do so). In other words, he splattered a lot of innocent people with that broad brush of his. That's not to mention, the term "hag" is a loaded one that we uppity wimmenfolk don't generally cotton to ... pardner. 

I haven't a clue what Bruce's history is with certain women at Dims, nor do I care to be filled in. It wouldn't change a thing about what I didn't like in his initial post (and certainly, the world of what I didn't like in his subsequent responses). 

Arv makes a good point, and I know that it's frustrated her before, this "can't win" situation that we often find ourselves in ... whereby we object to some rather obvious nasty bit of misogyny folded between the lines of just about ... oh, say, EVERYTHING in something written ... and when we object to it, we're painted as overly sensitive. The problem is, Bruce didn't come out and *say* "I have issues with women." He certainly implied it, though. It's rather like making a snarky, passive-aggressive remark and then following that with a string of    ... a cop-out, in other words. Anyone calls me on the snark ... why, I was just kidding! <aghast!> Or, golly gee whiz ... I didn't mean to call *every* woman a hag ... just those that I don't like! <clueless>

I don't know your history either, nor do I need to. I'm hardly a newbie, as I've been posting here for 4 years. If I post for another 4, I still won't know the behind-the-scenes politics or the personalities or the juicy gossip, because I don't really care to know it (well, ok ... mostly because nobody cares to spoon feed it to my nosy parker self). But none of that makes a bit of difference to me. I respond to what I see in front of me.

And if you think I'm being overly sensitive, that's fine with me. I've spent 40 years on this planet, and have gained some bit of wisdom, insight and perspective. I know trouble when I see it, in whatever guise that may be. I know that when a man calls a woman a "hag" and/or accuses her of being jealous of other women ... he's no friend of mine, or of the female persuasion in general. Whether he was referring to me or not.


----------



## RedVelvet

TraciJo67 said:


> Well, I wasn't the one wielding the bat, nor was Arv. And Bruce hasn't shared his version of who the "hags" vs "non-hags" are (and this isn't an open invitation for him to do so). In other words, he splattered a lot of innocent people with that broad brush of his. That's not to mention, the term "hag" is a loaded one that we uppity wimmenfolk don't generally cotton to ... pardner.
> 
> I haven't a clue what Bruce's history is with certain women at Dims, nor do I care to be filled in. It wouldn't change a thing about what I didn't like in his initial post (and certainly, the world of what I didn't like in his subsequent responses).
> 
> Arv makes a good point, and I know that it's frustrated her before, this "can't win" situation that we often find ourselves in ... whereby we object to some rather obvious misogyny folded between the lines of just about ... oh, say, EVERYTHING in something written ... and if we object to it, we're painted as overly sensitive. The problem is, Bruce didn't come out and *say* "I have issues with women." He certainly implied it, though. It's rather like making a snarky, passive-aggressive remark and then following that with a string of    ... a cop-out, in other words. Anyone calls me on the snark ... why, I was just kidding! <aghast!> Or, golly gee whiz ... I didn't mean to call *every* woman a hag ... just those that I don't like! <clueless>
> 
> I don't know your history either, nor do I need to. I'm hardly a newbie, as I've been posting here for 4 years. If I post for another 4, I still won't know the behind-the-scenes politics or the personalities or the juicy gossip, because I don't really care to know it (well, ok ... mostly because nobody cares to spoon feed it to my nosy parker self). But none of that makes a bit of difference to me. I respond to what I see in front of me.
> 
> And if you think I'm being overly sensitive, that's fine with me. I've spent 40 years on this planet, and have gained some bit of wisdom, insight and perspective. I know trouble when I see it, in whatever guise that may be. I know that when a man calls a woman a "hag" and/or accuses her of being jealous of other women ... he's no friend of mine, or of the female persuasion in general. Whether he was referring to me or not.




Boy...this is what I wanted to say, but just couldnt find the fecking WORDS!

...DAMMIT....You're good.

YES YES YES And a thousand times YES.


----------



## Jane

Perhaps this would be a good place to post the "some tips to guys if you ever want to get laid/have a relationship/have a female friend" list: (always being edited)

1) Don't be a selfish prick. Really. It helps.
2) When your mother told you that you would be a great catch, it could have been true. She could have just been praying out loud.
3) Women, hard as it is to believe, can see though your bullshit 99.9% of the time. The ones who don't...didn't want to this time.
4) Bathe, brush teeth, wash hair, use deodorant.
5) Trim things that need to be trimmed.
6) No, there is nothing you can take that is going to make it "bigger." Learn to work with what you got.
7) Don't know, don't care what your (pick any that apply) mother, first girlfriend, last girlfriend, ex-wife, last ex-wife, sister, anything with a vagina, did to you. I'm not her. You cannot exact your revenge for her on me. It doesn't work that way.
8) Remember, if you get really pissy, I own cast iron skillets, said skillets have these little cast iron lips, you have a temple, and you will sleep sometime.

And for women:

Anyone to whom you have to explain the above list...move on...nothing to see here.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Freestyle Fez said:


> you included, apparently.


Spot on....like I said when I repped you 



NancyGirl74 said:


> Not to pick a fight but I remember that moment in time a bit differently. Heated debate? Yes. Hags? No. People who jumped all over the Original Poster of that thread for having a controversial opinion? Oh yeah. Is this thread anything like that other one? Maybe, in a way but nearly as heated or angry. Not to diminish the valid feelings on this thread, but no one here is calling this OP a troll or "it". No one is telling this OP he should pack it up and leave Dimensions forever. It will be interesting to see when all is said and done if Carl's loudest protesters turn around and call him "friend" months from now when the next controversial thread arises like those adamant debaters on the "other" thread call Susannah now.
> 
> Also, if by mutating a post that means supporting the posters right to say what they feel is important even when the masses disapprove of what is being said then I guess I am one of those "hags". Personally, I think mutating a thread might be more along the lines of someone taking a dead issue, one that is totally unrelated to the topic at hand and using it as a weapon in some sort of personal vendetta.
> 
> But no hard feelings....






Jack Skellington said:


> You are the only one making you look bad and you are the only one trying to spin this topic into an unrelated one.



Spot on again....


I'm glad we have Bruce to come in periodically, insult all that he can, and then "leave" again for X amount of time in a tantrum. 

This crap is really old Bruce....I see few "nice" posts from you. Most of what I have seen of you in 2 years here is nasty, insulting and fighting. 

Gee....just the observation of a noob. 

Oh, and I don't give a shit "what Bruce is like in real life"...I see him here and it's not remotely nice.


----------



## bexy

i am now officially completely lost. who has a problem with paysite girls?? should i run away?


----------



## stan_der_man

fa_man_stan said:


> ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Blowing off some steam on occasion helps too!





ThikJerseyChik said:


> Now THAT is ONE HOT TIN BOY! woohooooooo!



That's right TJC, a hot tin boy with heart... and it even looks like he's got some "hot" moves... 

Doin' a happy little jig after blowing off some steam is always a good thing... the trademark of a true "hot boy"!




Jane said:


> Perhaps this would be a good place to post the "some tips to guys if you ever want to get laid/have a relationship/have a female friend" list: (always being edited)
> 
> 1) Don't be a selfish prick. Really. It helps.
> 2) When your mother told you that you would be a great catch, it could have been true. She could have just been praying out loud.
> 3) Women, hard as it is to believe, can see though your bullshit 99.9% of the time. The ones who don't...didn't want to this time.
> 4) Bathe, brush teeth, wash hair, use deodorant.
> 5) Trim things that need to be trimmed.
> 6) No, there is nothing you can take that is going to make it "bigger." Learn to work with what you got.
> 7) Don't know, don't care what your (pick any that apply) mother, first girlfriend, last girlfriend, ex-wife, last ex-wife, sister, anything with a vagina, did to you. I'm not her. You cannot exact your revenge for her on me. It doesn't work that way.
> 8) Remember, if you get really pissy, I own cast iron skillets, said skillets have these little cast iron lips, you have a temple, and you will sleep sometime.
> 
> And for women:
> 
> Anyone to whom you have to explain the above list...move on...nothing to see here.



And don't forget guys. First you have to build the trust and respect of the ladies...




...then you can safely dazzle them with your brilliance, baffle them with your bullshit, or just torment them in general with your male-isms.


----------



## stan_der_man

bexylicious said:


> i am now officially completely lost. who has a problem with paysite girls?? should i run away?



It was a thread quite a while ago. The sort of thread that unwittingly set off a firestorm which eventually died down...

... until now apparently. It's amazing how long smoldering embers last. Nothing to worry about really, we have a good volunteer fire brigade here in Dimensions.


----------



## bexy

fa_man_stan said:


> It was a thread quite a while ago. The sort of thread that unwittingly set off a firestorm which eventually died down...
> 
> ... until now apparently. It's amazing how long smoldering embers last. Nothing to worry about really, we have a good volunteer fire brigade here in Dimensions.



ah okies, very well then. remarkable how whatever it was has been remembered with such vitriol, i can barely remember what happened yesterday!

thanks stan!


ps-how do i sign up to this volunteer brigade, it would look good on my resume!


----------



## RedVelvet

Tin Man was always my favorite, in spite of some seriously fae tendencies.

(and thats nothing against teh fae......I loves them too, just not in quite the same way..)


----------



## mossystate

I keep forgetting that as a ' girl ', I am not supposed to defend _my_ petticoat wearing beliefs. I am always happy when a ' man ' comes along and calls me names, because I disagree with him. Couldn't possibly be anything they are doing wrong..oh..of course not.

Some people are never..ever..going to actually see what another is saying, if what the other is saying mentions any of the trigger words that causes them to go into a tailspin. 
 
The bringing out the accusation of jealousy. This is one of those things done to try and silence any valid concerns or pointsor back and forth conversation. It is bully schoolyard behavior. I do not giggle and swoon over bullies. I guess those who want to fling that word around with such glee need to understand that when they themselves find themselves not liking someone or some thing...they are jealous....right?...gots to be...right?

Funny thing is, I can have mixed feelings about something in particular..but...I am one of those silly......girls....who can see.....individuals, at the end of the day. I guess I had better stop interacting with certain women out here. I need to fit the profile stapled on my forehead.

I am wise like that.

oh

a hag

cool


----------



## RedVelvet

mossystate said:


> I keep forgetting that as a ' girl ', I am not supposed to defend _my_ petticoat wearing beliefs. I am always happy when a ' man ' comes along and calls me names, because I disagree with him. Couldn't possibly be anything they are doing wrong..oh..of course not.
> 
> Some people are never..ever..going to actually see what another is saying, if what the other is saying mentions any of the trigger words that causes them to go into a tailspin.
> 
> The bringing out the accusation of jealousy. This is one of those things done to try and silence any valid concerns or pointsor back and forth conversation. It is bully schoolyard behavior. I do not giggle and swoon over bullies. I guess those who want to fling that word around with such glee need to understand that when they themselves find themselves not liking someone or some thing...they are jealous....right?...gots to be...right?
> 
> Funny thing is, I can have mixed feelings about something in particular..but...I am one of those silly......girls....who can see.....individuals, at the end of the day. I guess I had better stop interacting with certain women out here. I need to fit the profile stapled on my forehead.
> 
> I am wise like that.
> 
> oh
> 
> a hag
> 
> cool




Sometimes I really, really wish you were not heterosexual. 

(Cuz, you know..its all about MY needs...ahem)


You touched on an excellent point..the jealousy thing. Thats used to keep people from speaking a lot...Dont like something? Jealous! its OBVIOUSLY about you! 

Wish I were not out of rep...damn.


----------



## Blackjack

In response to the recent turn of events in this thread, I'd just like to say:


----------



## Tooz

Blackjack said:


> In response to the recent turn of events in this thread, I'd just like to say:



When I get up in the morning, I sometimes feel like this.


----------



## RedVelvet

Damn..thats the best picture I have seen in a long time!

Can we hijack a bit and ask that you give me some context here?

what the heck happened?


----------



## Carrie

RedVelvet said:


> You touched on an excellent point..the jealousy thing. Thats used to keep people from speaking a lot...Dont like something? Jealous! its OBVIOUSLY about you!


The jealousy myth, in general, is kind of funny. I remember coming home from grade school or high school or whatever, upset because someone had made fun of me or insulted me in some fashion, and my mom assuring me it was because he/she was jealous of me (for undetermined and unstated reasons, apparently), because that's what moms are supposed to say, I suppose. Then you hit your 20s and realize that those kids just really didn't like you.


----------



## Tooz

RedVelvet said:


> Damn..thats the best picture I have seen in a long time!
> 
> Can we hijack a bit and ask that you give me some context here?
> 
> what the heck happened?



Context would ruin its perfection.


----------



## Blackjack

RedVelvet said:


> Damn..thats the best picture I have seen in a long time!
> 
> Can we hijack a bit and ask that you give me some context here?
> 
> what the heck happened?



Honestly, I have no clue. I found it on a random image generator site.

It's better that way, I think.



Tooz said:


> When I get up in the morning, I sometimes feel like this.



Ready to face the world with your pants around your ankles?


----------



## vardon_grip

Jane said:


> Perhaps this would be a good place to post the "some tips to guys if you ever want to get laid/have a relationship/have a female friend" list: (always being edited)
> 
> 1) Don't be a selfish prick. Really. It helps.
> 2) When your mother told you that you would be a great catch, it could have been true. She could have just been praying out loud.
> 3) Women, hard as it is to believe, can see though your bullshit 99.9% of the time. The ones who don't...didn't want to this time.
> 4) Bathe, brush teeth, wash hair, use deodorant.
> 5) Trim things that need to be trimmed.
> 6) No, there is nothing you can take that is going to make it "bigger." Learn to work with what you got.
> 7) Don't know, don't care what your (pick any that apply) mother, first girlfriend, last girlfriend, ex-wife, last ex-wife, sister, anything with a vagina, did to you. I'm not her. You cannot exact your revenge for her on me. It doesn't work that way.
> 8) Remember, if you get really pissy, I own cast iron skillets, said skillets have these little cast iron lips, you have a temple, and you will sleep sometime.
> 
> And for women:
> 
> Anyone to whom you have to explain the above list...move on...nothing to see here.



Bad behavior isn't gender specific. Very few people can see through bullshit. If they really could, they would have never had a bad relationship to bitch about. I hope that the .1% would not purposely step into bullshit. Both men and women can be blinded by their hopes, desires and insecurities. Also, I do happen to care about what your father, mother, brother, sister or ex-bf/husband did to you. If you are like most, it left a few scars. Hopefully, we can help each other heal. If we care for each other, we can try to work it out. We all have weapons to hurt others with, some physical and some emotional. Are you telling me, like it is some kind of secret, that you can hurt me? That is a huge fear of mine and I will guess, a great many others. Most of us have been hurt, but instead of hurting back I hope we can try to understand another's pain and our own and come to a better understanding.

In summary:
MEN-Be nice..blah,blah...Lakers win...blah, be nice, blah, blah...get to have sex with a great woman...blah, blah, blah

WOMEN-Be nice..Jimmy Choo's...be nice...blah, blah, blah...that reminds me; paint the ceiling...blah


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

Oddly .. I saw that picture and thought of this one. Must be the correlation between being asian and in the street and UNEXPLAINABLE.

Well, obviously the bird is hungry. 






Note to self. Do not hug birds.


----------



## Jane

What a wuss answer.

It may win you some points.


----------



## Carl1h

mossystate said:


> The bringing out the accusation of jealousy. This is one of those things done to try and silence any valid concerns or pointsor back and forth conversation. It is bully schoolyard behavior. I do not giggle and swoon over bullies. I guess those who want to fling that word around with such glee need to understand that when they themselves find themselves not liking someone or some thing...they are jealous....right?...gots to be...right?





TraciJo67 said:


> I know that when a man calls a woman a "hag" and/or accuses her of being jealous of other women ... he's no friend of mine, or of the female persuasion in general. Whether he was referring to me or not.



*Bruce wasn't the first person in this thread to accuse someone of being motivated by jealousy, nor was the target of that first accusation a woman. I am glad though that the two of you can acknowledge such a thing as inappropriate.*



Dibaby35 said:


> Dude stop being jealous and get over your insecurities..we love all the men here..really!
> 
> Now where is this hot guy thread anyways..





mergirl said:


> i think jealousy and insecutity might be the crux of this whole discussion actually..
> 
> mer



*I'll fall back on Traci Jo's words to close.*



TraciJo67 said:


> And if you think I'm being overly sensitive, that's fine with me.


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

Jealous & Sensitive followed by a picture of Gunther cannot work.

NEVER WOULD HE BE ASSOCIATED WITH ANY EMOTION THAT IS NOT SEXY. 

Unless you are jealous of Gunther, which makes sense, because I am also feelin' that.


----------



## The Fez

making your title 'Jealous and insecure' is kind of furthering everybody's point, you know


----------



## bexy

Freestyle Fez said:


> making your title 'Jealous and insecure' is kind of furthering everybody's point, you know



i think its supposed to be funny...


...its not.



this thread is making my head sore. how bout u fez?
:happy:


----------



## stan_der_man

bexylicious said:


> ah okies, very well then. remarkable how whatever it was has been remembered with such vitriol, i can barely remember what happened yesterday!
> 
> thanks stan!
> 
> 
> ps-how do i sign up to this volunteer brigade, it would look good on my resume!



The only requirement is that you need a hose... I'm sure plenty of guys will gladly loan you theirs...  I'll leave it at that.



RedVelvet said:


> Tin Man was always my favorite, in spite of some seriously fae tendencies.
> 
> (and thats nothing against teh fae......I loves them too, just not in quite the same way..)


I'll 'fess Arvee, you always keep me on my toes... that's one of the many things I so admire about you. I had to look up "fae" on Wikipedia ... it took me two references to get up to speed.


I just can't help it... the way my mind works I suppose. When I put "fae" and "tin man" together, the first thing that comes to mind is that scene in the Wizard of Oz where the tin man oils up his body...



I'm one sick puppy. :doh:



I'd better go get some work done...


----------



## The Fez

bexylicious said:


> i think its supposed to be funny...
> 
> 
> ...its not.
> 
> 
> 
> this thread is making my head sore. how bout u fez?
> :happy:



I'm starting to wonder why I keep coming back to it!:doh:


----------



## bexy

fa_man_stan said:


> The only requirement is that you need a hose... I'm sure plenty of guys will gladly loan you theirs...  I'll leave it at that.



oh,...so...many...puns...must..contain..self!


----------



## Tooz

Blackjack said:


> Ready to face the world with your pants around your ankles?



Yes. Exactly like that man.


----------



## stan_der_man

Freestyle Fez said:


> I'm starting to wonder why I keep coming back to it!:doh:



If we ever meet in person Fez, I'll treat for the brewskies. You ought to go to your local events, the Dims people are the best, seriously.



No body oiling... I promise. :bow:




BTW Carl, I like the new look!


----------



## Tooz

Oh... you touch my tra la la.


----------



## The Fez

ah...


..._my ding ding dong_

stan, next time there's one in my area I'll most deff be attending, if money allows it!


----------



## Carl1h

Tooz said:


> Oh... you touch my tra la la.


----------



## Tooz

Carl1h said:


>



Oh man that is epically good.


----------



## RedVelvet

Tooz said:


> Oh man that is epically good.




I know...I snorted my tea.


I lean towards tra la la. I'm English.


----------



## Jack Skellington

bexylicious said:


> i think its supposed to be funny...



I think he is just trying to be passive aggressive.



> ...its not.



Agreed, it might be if he was actually trying to poke a little fun at himself for starting this with his misguided dislike of pics of thin men being posted. But it's really just coming off as just more self victimization. 



Carl1h said:


> *Bruce wasn't the first person in this thread to accuse someone of being motivated by jealousy, nor was the target of that first accusation a woman. I am glad though that the two of you can acknowledge such a thing as inappropriate.*



You want to still go there? Fine.

Since the jealously/insecurity thing is still being beaten to death, the person that started that thread years ago in the hyde park admitted that the issues they had with the payboard stemmed from their own insecurities and apologized for it. 

Do you have stones to own up to it and do the same?


----------



## LillyBBBW

Jack Skellington said:


> I think he is just trying to be passive aggressive.
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed, it might be if he was actually trying to poke a little fun at himself for starting this with his misguided dislike of pics of thin men being posted. But it's really just coming off as just more self victimization.
> 
> 
> 
> You want to still go there? Fine.
> 
> *Since the jealously/insecurity thing is still being beaten to death, the person that started that thread years ago in the hyde park admitted that the issues they had with the payboard stemmed from their own insecurities and apologized for it.
> 
> Do you have stones to own up to it and do the same?*



Thanks for putting this so simply Jack. I started and stopped, started and stopped -- it was just too difficult for me to put into as few words as you have.


----------



## wrestlingguy

TraciJo67 said:


> Well, I wasn't the one wielding the bat, nor was Arv. And Bruce hasn't shared his version of who the "hags" vs "non-hags" are (and this isn't an open invitation for him to do so). In other words, he splattered a lot of innocent people with that broad brush of his. That's not to mention, the term "hag" is a loaded one that we uppity wimmenfolk don't generally cotton to ... pardner.
> 
> I haven't a clue what Bruce's history is with certain women at Dims, nor do I care to be filled in. It wouldn't change a thing about what I didn't like in his initial post (and certainly, the world of what I didn't like in his subsequent responses).
> 
> Arv makes a good point, and I know that it's frustrated her before, this "can't win" situation that we often find ourselves in ... whereby we object to some rather obvious nasty bit of misogyny folded between the lines of just about ... oh, say, EVERYTHING in something written ... and when we object to it, we're painted as overly sensitive. The problem is, Bruce didn't come out and *say* "I have issues with women." He certainly implied it, though. It's rather like making a snarky, passive-aggressive remark and then following that with a string of    ... a cop-out, in other words. Anyone calls me on the snark ... why, I was just kidding! <aghast!> Or, golly gee whiz ... I didn't mean to call *every* woman a hag ... just those that I don't like! <clueless>
> 
> I don't know your history either, nor do I need to. I'm hardly a newbie, as I've been posting here for 4 years. If I post for another 4, I still won't know the behind-the-scenes politics or the personalities or the juicy gossip, because I don't really care to know it (well, ok ... mostly because nobody cares to spoon feed it to my nosy parker self). But none of that makes a bit of difference to me. I respond to what I see in front of me.
> 
> And if you think I'm being overly sensitive, that's fine with me. I've spent 40 years on this planet, and have gained some bit of wisdom, insight and perspective. I know trouble when I see it, in whatever guise that may be. I know that when a man calls a woman a "hag" and/or accuses her of being jealous of other women ... he's no friend of mine, or of the female persuasion in general. Whether he was referring to me or not.



All I'm saying (and this has nothing to do with Bruce), is that perspectives change when one engages in face to face dialogue at a BBW/FA event, bash, dance, or whatever. I wasn't defending my friend. Bruce and I have conversations, and we disagree about things as well. My perspective about HIM, however, versus what he thinks about certain things we disagree on, I have to tell you that friendship wins out, which gets back to my original point about face to face dialogue, and how it changes perception.

Let me ask you (in an effort to better understand your perspective), have you ever uttered a generic dump on men? Should I automatically assume that if you did, that I would be included? I don't think you're being overly sensitive at all, I am just thinking that you need not assume that every comment made in the posts here are directed at you. By the way, you really would like me if you met me..................well, maybe.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

PERSPECTIVE:

After reading about what Susannah is going thru, and after reading about the death of Cinda, doesn't this thread seem amazingly ridiculous?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Violet_Beauregard said:


> PERSPECTIVE:
> 
> After reading about what Susannah is going thru, and after reading about the death of Cinda, doesn't this thread seem amazingly ridiculous?



It seemed ridiculous even before that......


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

I agree... I just hope the OP figures that out..... somehow, I doubt it though. 



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> It seemed ridiculous even before that......


----------



## William

Hi 

I first mentioned the Hot Boy thread over on the BHM/FFA because I thought that it was a great example of double standards and the second class status of Fat Men in Fat Acceptance and in Fat Admiration.

I was saying that if the attraction to Fat Men was so low even on a Fat Admiration Website then imagine what Fat Men have to deal with in the real world. It goes against the Fat Acceptance party line that Fat Men receive far less Fat Issues than Fat Women or that the Fat Acceptance statement that Men only recently are being judged by their weight. Any fat Man will tell you that this is a bunch of BS.

The reaction here to Carls thread is another Fat Community Double standard.

Once upon a time some Fat Women were ignored and rejected and the answer was to create an industry around fighting this problem. Magazines, Dances, Events, Conventions and Vendors were built on fighting this problem.

Carl asks the same questions about Fat Men and the reaction is to Just get over it or It is just a choice. 

Well does that mean that everything connected with Fat Acceptance is just BS or is Fat Acceptance and Admiration is just one of those things that only apply to one gender? Or is Fat Acceptance not real just something in our imaginations, that only applies as far as each person own acceptance of others?

William


----------



## William

Hi Lilly

I think there are quite a few BHM on the BHM/FFA like me, who may not use the title of FA, but do like Fat Women. 

Skinny FFAs even sometimes feel ignored on the on the BHM/FFA Board.

William




LillyBBBW said:


> Apparently so Carl. I can count the number of FA's in the BHM board on one hand. Some will say, "Yeah, any girl will do as long as I like her personality," but lets be frank here. The BHM board is not the high falutin fat girl party it is everywhere else on this board. It is what it is. People describe their preference on there all the time and I can't get all bent out of shape about it, as long as they're not saying EEEW or something.
> 
> Does it feel like a hostile environment sometimes? Yes. But i can dig it because I don't believe in shutting people up or forcing people to profess things that are untrue. The ladies are posting pics of what they like. What do you want from them? We're not going to take the thread down or affix our desires in a way that pleases you. We don't expect you to do it. Go ahead and profess your love for Mischa Barton on the BHM board, just so long as it's respectful no one should interfere. We promise we won't go there and slobber all over Brad Pitt. Just because everybody on the BHM doesn't want to wallow in our folds doesn't mean some grave injustice is afoot. Censorship just isn't going to happen here.


----------



## cute_obese_girl

William said:


> The reaction here to Carls thread is another Fat Community Double standard.



I'd like some further explanation of how you consider the reactions on this thread to be a double standard. Some of us FFAs have posted BHMs on the Hot Boy Thread, myself and Surlysomething, for example. There were no negative reactions. No, ewww, take those BHM pics to the BHM board, or the like. That to me would be a double standard. Women stating their personal preferences, however, does not equal a double standard in and of itself.

BHMs have also posted pics on the various pic threads on the weight boards and I have never seen the women there say anything derogatory or hurtful. Women who like what they see comment, the others just move on. I think that qualifies as fat acceptance. 

I can see how having the BHM boards being a separate forum from the BBW sections can seem like you guys are an after thought. However, I think one of the main reasons it is separate is because these boards are populated by a lot of male FAs who want to interact with large women and view pictures of large women. They don't want to see pics of other men and that is why the BHM board is separate. Could be, maybe??? I suppose only Conrad can really answer that question.

I can see how the Hot Boy Thread could be discouraging to the BHMs, however it is no more discouraging than the "Where are all the Skinny FFAs at?" thread on the BHM board for the FFAs who happen to also be BBWs. The way I deal with it is I don't go into that thread. I don't think there is anything wrong with advising Carl to do the same in this case.

Be well William, and see you over on the BHM board


----------



## mergirl

William said:


> Hi
> 
> I first mentioned the Hot Boy thread over on the BHM/FFA because I thought that it was a great example of double standards and the second class status of Fat Men in Fat Acceptance and in Fat Admiration.
> 
> I was saying that if the attraction to Fat Men was so low even on a Fat Admiration Website then imagine what Fat Men have to deal with in the real world. It goes against the Fat Acceptance party line that Fat Men receive far less Fat Issues than Fat Women or that the Fat Acceptance statement that Men only recently are being judged by their weight. Any fat Man will tell you that this is a bunch of BS.
> 
> The reaction here to Carls thread is another Fat Community Double standard.
> 
> Once upon a time some Fat Women were ignored and rejected and the answer was to create an industry around fighting this problem. Magazines, Dances, Events, Conventions and Vendors were built on fighting this problem.
> 
> Carl asks the same questions about Fat Men and the reaction is to Just get over it or It is just a choice.
> 
> Well does that mean that everything connected with Fat Acceptance is just BS or is Fat Acceptance and Admiration is just one of those things that only apply to one gender? Or is Fat Acceptance not real just something in our imaginations, that only applies as far as each person own acceptance of others?
> 
> William


I think if you are looking for social reasoning behind the majority of size acceptance sites focusing mainly on women it might be partly for two reasons. And i'm playing devils advovate here and just throwing out some ideas..:
Firstly, generally men have been more vocal even if its in secret (an oxymoron i know) about thier sexual preferences in general. There have always been "fat based" pornography which mainly have focused on womens bodies. This doesn mean to say that there are not as many women who like fat male bodies its just that perhaps there wasnt such a demand for pornography for women. 
Not that i am confusing pornography with size acceptance, which is seperate..but we are talking about "hot people we find attractive" which is more to do with sexual preference than acceptance.
Secondly, socially i dont belive that big guys have it worse than big women. I think that if women chose to be with a big partner it is deemed as acceptable; granted, people might wonder if he is rich, good in bed etc whereas if a guy is with a big woman people might ask him why he is not with someone who is thin. 
This is not the case always of course.. but it seems to be more socially acceptable for women to date big guys..they just do it.. which might be one of the reasons these women dont feel the need to come to places like dimensions.

xmer


----------



## William

Hi C_O_B

I was never criticizing the choice that the Ladies made on the Hot Boy Thread, I was using it as a example of what Fat Men have to deal with. I do not believe that it is wrong to point out a lack of acceptance of people just because they are involved in Fat Acceptance.


I also really like and appreciate the huge support that we BHMs get from the FFAs of all sizes.

Still I would propose that if on Dimensions which is a Fat Friendly and Accepting area there could be such a bias against Fat Men being attractive as in the Hot Boy Thread (this mainly applies to the choices made before the thread was questioned) then Fat Men do have a very rough time in life. The reality is that the world outside of Dimensions will not be accepting as what you find in Dimensions. 

If I used the ladies on the BHM/FFA Board then it would seem that BHM have it made, but the Dimensions other boards should at least be as accepting or a little more accepting the world at large of both Fat Men and Women. What got me to respond to the Hot Boy Thread was Fat Acceptances custom of minimizing the experiences of Fat Men.

As for the Double Standard of this thread, it is the fact that NAAFA/Dimensions/BBW Dances and much more was created in the response to the experiences of Fat Women, then why shouldnt Carl be allowed to ask these questions? I have seen Fat Women online express outrage because they did not get any attention while at a Club, but I have never heard anyone in Fat Acceptance ever respond to them that it was just a choice, to get over it. 

William





cute_obese_girl said:


> I'd like some further explanation of how you consider the reactions on this thread to be a double standard. Some of us FFAs have posted BHMs on the Hot Boy Thread, myself and Surlysomething, for example. There were no negative reactions. No, ewww, take those BHM pics to the BHM board, or the like. That to me would be a double standard. Women stating their personal preferences, however, does not equal a double standard in and of itself.
> 
> BHMs have also posted pics on the various pic threads on the weight boards and I have never seen the women there say anything derogatory or hurtful. Women who like what they see comment, the others just move on. I think that qualifies as fat acceptance.
> 
> I can see how having the BHM boards being a separate forum from the BBW sections can seem like you guys are an after thought. However, I think one of the main reasons it is separate is because these boards are populated by a lot of male FAs who want to interact with large women and view pictures of large women. They don't want to see pics of other men and that is why the BHM board is separate. Could be, maybe??? I suppose only Conrad can really answer that question.
> 
> I can see how the Hot Boy Thread could be discouraging to the BHMs, however it is no more discouraging than the "Where are all the Skinny FFAs at?" thread on the BHM board for the FFAs who happen to also be BBWs. The way I deal with it is I don't go into that thread. I don't think there is anything wrong with advising Carl to do the same in this case.
> 
> Be well William, and see you over on the BHM board


----------



## butch

William, you mentioned NAAFA and Dimensions in your last post, and both organizations were founded by slender male FAs, so of course the primary focus of both would be fat women and the men who prefer fat female partners. People who don't fit that paradigm are welcome, but they need to be as active as Conrad and Bill Fabrey and the others and actually create the kind of place/organization they want, and not wait around for others to give them what they want.

If fat guys want 'a place at the table' at established, long standing fat acceptance spaces, then they need to push their way in and do it, and if that doesn't satisfy, start their own organization. Its that simple. From my experince as someone affiliated with NAAFA in and out over the past 20+ years, and as someone familiar with Dims as an online space for close to 10 years, I see spaces that are open and willing to the experiences and needs of fat guys, but the fat guys themselves have to be very assertive in claiming that. 

The fat activist work I see that isn't primarily focused on the social is very much focused on the needs of fat PEOPLE, not fat women. I think at times we all confuse the social with the political, and in that regard, I don't see how a hot boy or girl thread here with thin people in it is in any way meant to belittle or dismiss the need that all fat people deserve a level of basic human dignity that often times is lacking in our world. 

Attraction is a funny thing, and while I too wish more fat people were turned on by the bodies of other fat people, it just doesn't work that way, and that doesn't mean that a fat person who is attracted to thin people doesn't want their fat brothers or sisters to have the same fat acceptance they want for themselves. Attraction does not equal civil rights, and if we really think that full acceptance means everyone will find fatties hot, then we're deluding ourselves. No one, thin, young, muscular, whatever, has universal hotness, so why should fatties of any gender? 

I think Angelina Jolie is sex on wheels, but you know what, others don't. I find it very hard to understand why everyone doesn't find her as arousing as I do, but that doesn't mean I then think they are trying to discriminate against her or keep her down or refuse her civil rights because they think she is unattractive. Its the same here with the various pic threads. No one posts pics of hot fat women who look like me, and I don't think that means the other fatties and F(F)As somehow don't think I deserve fat acceptance or that they think I'm any less of a human being because they aren't turned on by my fat boyish charms (their loss, lol). 

OK, I know most people who started this post have abandoned it by now, and so shall I. Do I have a point, uh, I don't know. "Why can't we all just get along" for reals?


----------



## RedVelvet

butch said:


> William, you mentioned NAAFA and Dimensions in your last post, and both organizations were founded by slender male FAs, so of course the primary focus of both would be fat women and the men who prefer fat female partners. People who don't fit that paradigm are welcome, but they need to be as active as Conrad and Bill Fabrey and the others and actually create the kind of place/organization they want, and not wait around for others to give them what they want.
> 
> If fat guys want 'a place at the table' at established, long standing fat acceptance spaces, then they need to push their way in and do it, and if that doesn't satisfy, start their own organization. Its that simple. From my experince as someone affiliated with NAAFA in and out over the past 20+ years, and as someone familiar with Dims as an online space for close to 10 years, I see spaces that are open and willing to the experiences and needs of fat guys, but the fat guys themselves have to be very assertive in claiming that.
> 
> The fat activist work I see that isn't primarily focused on the social is very much focused on the needs of fat PEOPLE, not fat women. I think at times we all confuse the social with the political, and in that regard, I don't see how a hot boy or girl thread here with thin people in it is in any way meant to belittle or dismiss the need that all fat people deserve a level of basic human dignity that often times is lacking in our world.
> 
> Attraction is a funny thing, and while I too wish more fat people were turned on by the bodies of other fat people, it just doesn't work that way, and that doesn't mean that a fat person who is attracted to thin people doesn't want their fat brothers or sisters to have the same fat acceptance they want for themselves. Attraction does not equal civil rights, and if we really think that full acceptance means everyone will find fatties hot, then we're deluding ourselves. No one, thin, young, muscular, whatever, has universal hotness, so why should fatties of any gender?
> 
> I think Angelina Jolie is sex on wheels, but you know what, others don't. I find it very hard to understand why everyone doesn't find her as arousing as I do, but that doesn't mean I then think they are trying to discriminate against her or keep her down or refuse her civil rights because they think she is unattractive. Its the same here with the various pic threads. No one posts pics of hot fat women who look like me, and I don't think that means the other fatties and F(F)As somehow don't think I deserve fat acceptance or that they think I'm any less of a human being because they aren't turned on by my fat boyish charms (their loss, lol).
> 
> OK, I know most people who started this post have abandoned it by now, and so shall I. Do I have a point, uh, I don't know. "Why can't we all just get along" for reals?





Reppity rep rep rep, and more rep for this.


----------



## Jack Skellington

William said:


> The reaction here to Carls thread is another Fat Community Double standard.



Double standard!? 

The only double standard Im seeing is that women shouldnt be able to post what the find attractive when men here do it all the time. Its okay for men to post about whatever body types, body parts, sizes and shapes they like but if women say they like anything other than BHM they are being anti-size acceptance and anti-BHM.

This whole thing reeks of self victimization and male entitlement on the part of the men martyring themselves.


----------



## LillyBBBW

William said:


> Hi C_O_B
> 
> I was never criticizing the choice that the Ladies made on the Hot Boy Thread, I was using it as a example of what Fat Men have to deal with. I do not believe that it is wrong to point out a lack of acceptance of people just because they are involved in Fat Acceptance.



William, it appears you are equating physical attraction with acceptance. They are not the same. The purpose of fat acceptance is not to make people desire us as fat people. Just becasue someoned is not physically attracted to me or you doesn't mean they are not accepting. 




William said:


> I also really like and appreciate the huge support that we BHMs get from the FFAs of all sizes.
> 
> Still I would propose that if on Dimensions which is a Fat Friendly and Accepting area there could be such a bias against Fat Men being attractive as in the Hot Boy Thread (this mainly applies to the choices made before the thread was questioned) then Fat Men do have a very rough time in life. The reality is that the world outside of Dimensions will not be accepting as what you find in Dimensions.



That is not a sound argument at all. Like it has already been pointed out before, a hot girl thread in the BHM board yeilded similar results; a picture therad full of thin celebrities. A lot of them claim that they are also attracted to fat women just as a lot of the women who posted in the hot boy thread have said the same. The choice when asked however was clear. Thin celebrities ruled the day in the droolfest on the BHM board. This does not mean the fat men on the BHM board are not fat accepting nor is it evidence of some travesty of justice. 



William said:


> If I used the ladies on the BHM/FFA Board then it would seem that BHM have it made, but the Dimensions other boards should at least be as accepting or a little more accepting the world at large of both Fat Men and Women. What got me to respond to the Hot Boy Thread was Fat Acceptances custom of minimizing the experiences of Fat Men.



I would say the same in reverse. You would think the fat women here have it made what with all the saliva mopping that goes on all over the board but most of us live in a reality outside of the board where men will let the glass door slam in our faces. I've been an SSBBW on the BHM board for quite some time and have been warmly accepted by everyone there but have felt the glass door hit my nose more times than I can recall. Those are two separate issues though. Am I seen as attractive by everyone on that board? No. There's nothing anyone can do about that. Once again I think you are equating physical attraction with acceptance and that is a fatal mistake.



William said:


> As for the Double Standard of this thread, it is the fact that NAAFA/Dimensions/BBW Dances and much more was created in the response to the experiences of Fat Women, then why shouldnt Carl be allowed to ask these questions? I have seen Fat Women online express outrage because they did not get any attention while at a Club, but I have never heard anyone in Fat Acceptance ever respond to them that it was just a choice, to get over it.
> 
> William



It's all about the context. There's a difference between venting about how you didn't get any action at the club last night and feeling some sense of entitlement from fat women just for being fat. You are not entitled to desirability from fat women nor is it appropriate for us to demand the same from you. We *accept* you as fat men and that's all you get. It is what fat acceptance is and nothing more. It is nice that you desire us William but it is not required. Desire is your own affair just as it is for everyone else.


----------



## moore2me

Violet_Beauregard said:


> PERSPECTIVE:
> 
> After reading about what Susannah is going thru, and after reading about the death of Cinda, doesn't this thread seem amazingly ridiculous?



And don't forget Monique's problems with her heart either. But, once again, you said the exact right thing Violet. Having real problems and tragedies puts these little "speed bumps" in perspective. Our family, our health, and our life, and our loved ones lives are what's really important.


----------



## Smite

You know, some of us who have a hold on the BHM-FFA "culture" would gladly try to push our selves in and get into these groups...if the groups didn't outright deny our existance.


----------



## Blackjack

What's really important in life is this.







Now I have supplied it, and we may all die happy.

(Yes, I'm going to keep posting this image until it becomes relevant.)


----------



## The Fez

Blackjack said:


> What's really important in life is this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I have supplied it, and we may all die happy.
> 
> (Yes, I'm going to keep posting this image until it becomes relevant.)



New thread topic: how much of a hero that man is. He's so proud!


----------



## RedVelvet

You have to think....what was the morning like...

You know....as he tied his tie...was he thinking...

"Oh boy...gonna drop trou this afternoon!"..

I mean..the look on his face is so....so..

"OH YEAH? Well.....I got that and RAISE IT...LOOKIT THIS!"


I'm sorry...but I would kill to know the backstory, in spite of its wonderfulness without context.


----------



## saucywench

RedVelvet said:


> Reppity rep rep rep, and more rep for this.


No kidding.

I have been distracted by other things since this morning, when I first read and wanted to respond to William's post. Fortunately for me, butch saved me the time and effort and did a far more effective job in the process.


----------



## Surlysomething

Blackjack said:


> What's really important in life is this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I have supplied it, and we may all die happy.
> 
> (Yes, I'm going to keep posting this image until it becomes relevant.)




even skinny guys get 'moobs' - the a cup version


----------



## William

Hi Butch

I have no problem with the NAAFA/Diminsions./BBW Dance origins of Fat Acceptance. I was only using them as an example of the support given to Fat Women who were questioning and protesting some of the same issues that Carl is raising. I never once read any BBW complaining about society being told that it is just a matter of choice and to get over it. It is just another of the many BHM double-standards out there.

You are right that there needs to be more Fat Men active in Fat Acceptance. I can only tell them to jump in and speak out against the common Fat Acceptance theme that Fat Men have it so easy.

I have no problem with the choices expressed in the Hot Boy thread other than they are a direct and powerful contradiction of the so called acceptance of Fat Men &#61514;

William






butch said:


> William, you mentioned NAAFA and Dimensions in your last post, and both organizations were founded by slender male FAs, so of course the primary focus of both would be fat women and the men who prefer fat female partners. People who don't fit that paradigm are welcome, but they need to be as active as Conrad and Bill Fabrey and the others and actually create the kind of place/organization they want, and not wait around for others to give them what they want.
> 
> If fat guys want 'a place at the table' at established, long standing fat acceptance spaces, then they need to push their way in and do it, and if that doesn't satisfy, start their own organization. Its that simple. From my experince as someone affiliated with NAAFA in and out over the past 20+ years, and as someone familiar with Dims as an online space for close to 10 years, I see spaces that are open and willing to the experiences and needs of fat guys, but the fat guys themselves have to be very assertive in claiming that.
> 
> The fat activist work I see that isn't primarily focused on the social is very much focused on the needs of fat PEOPLE, not fat women. I think at times we all confuse the social with the political, and in that regard, I don't see how a hot boy or girl thread here with thin people in it is in any way meant to belittle or dismiss the need that all fat people deserve a level of basic human dignity that often times is lacking in our world.
> 
> Attraction is a funny thing, and while I too wish more fat people were turned on by the bodies of other fat people, it just doesn't work that way, and that doesn't mean that a fat person who is attracted to thin people doesn't want their fat brothers or sisters to have the same fat acceptance they want for themselves. Attraction does not equal civil rights, and if we really think that full acceptance means everyone will find fatties hot, then we're deluding ourselves. No one, thin, young, muscular, whatever, has universal hotness, so why should fatties of any gender?
> 
> I think Angelina Jolie is sex on wheels, but you know what, others don't. I find it very hard to understand why everyone doesn't find her as arousing as I do, but that doesn't mean I then think they are trying to discriminate against her or keep her down or refuse her civil rights because they think she is unattractive. Its the same here with the various pic threads. No one posts pics of hot fat women who look like me, and I don't think that means the other fatties and F(F)As somehow don't think I deserve fat acceptance or that they think I'm any less of a human being because they aren't turned on by my fat boyish charms (their loss, lol).
> 
> OK, I know most people who started this post have abandoned it by now, and so shall I. Do I have a point, uh, I don't know. "Why can't we all just get along" for reals?


----------



## RedVelvet

William said:


> I have no problem with the choices expressed in the Hot Boy thread other than they are a direct and powerful contradiction of the so called acceptance of Fat Men &#61514;




No...AGAIN...you seem to be confusing attraction with acceptance.

Once....again....

Putting up pictures of thin celebrities in a pretty boy thread does NOT mean that the women who posted said pictures do not like, accept, or get naked with fat men. Some might only accept and want equal rights for fat men...some might want that and to get naked with them....

THE PICTURES ARE MEANINGLESS IN A LARGER CONTEXT. They are just a snapshot of who is cute and famous (hello..famous..) right now.

REAL LIFE...not so much playing a part in this.

Its a fecking..thread.


----------



## William

Hi Jack

I have been around Fat Acceptance for a long time and have hear thousands of Fat Women rail against Men that reject Fat Women (even if they are Fat Men) and I have never once heard anyone say that it is just a natural choice and those BBWs should accept it.

Well you see what happens when a BHM raises the same issues. I only see a double standard in the way BBW and BHM issues are Accepted (rejected) in Fat Acceptance. 

William









Jack Skellington said:


> Double standard!?
> 
> The only double standard Im seeing is that women shouldnt be able to post what the find attractive when men here do it all the time. Its okay for men to post about whatever body types, body parts, sizes and shapes they like but if women say they like anything other than BHM they are being anti-size acceptance and anti-BHM.
> 
> This whole thing reeks of self victimization and male entitlement on the part of the men martyring themselves.


----------



## LillyBBBW

William said:


> Hi Jack
> 
> I have been around Fat Acceptance for a long time and have hear thousands of Fat Women rail against Men that reject Fat Women (even if they are Fat Men) and I have never once heard anyone say that it is just a natural choice and those BBWs should accept it.
> 
> Well you see what happens when a BHM raises the same issues. I only see a double standard in the way BBW and BHM issues are Accepted (rejected) in Fat Acceptance.
> 
> William



Fat women rail because men in general reject fat women for thin, we do NOT rail at FAT men insisting that they must desire us above thin women because they are fat. Big difference. Huge.


----------



## RedVelvet

William said:


> Hi Jack
> 
> I have been around Fat Acceptance for a long time and have hear thousands of Fat Women rail against Men that reject Fat Women (even if they are Fat Men) and I have never once heard anyone say that it is just a natural choice and those BBWs should accept it.
> 
> Well you see what happens when a BHM raises the same issues. I only see a double standard in the way BBW and BHM issues are Accepted (rejected) in Fat Acceptance.
> 
> William




Actually..you are speaking only of your personal experience. 

YOUR personal experience is valid...for you. But you cannot extrapolate from that and conclude that "that is how it is.."...you just cant.

MY personal experience, for example...directly contradicts everything you say.....from the idea that "fat men" have it easy...to this double standard you speak of.

SO...in MY personal experience....you dont gots squat.

So...whats right?


----------



## Jack Skellington

William said:


> Well you see what happens when a BHM raises the same issues.



All I'm seeing is male entitlement and martyrdom.


----------



## Renaissance Woman

Smite said:


> You know, some of us who have a hold on the BHM-FFA "culture" would gladly try to push our selves in and get into these groups...if the groups didn't outright deny our existance.


You're going to have to fight with Carl and William for the martyr title.


----------



## Spanky

William said:


> Hi Jack
> 
> I have been around Fat Acceptance for a long time and have hear thousands of Fat Women rail against Men that reject Fat Women (even if they are Fat Men) and I have never once heard anyone say that it is just a natural choice and those BBWs should accept it.




I have to admit that most of the women I have read on these threads do not blame men for not wanting fat women, believing that many/most of these men simply do not find fat women attractive. Maybe there is a culture of media and society that steeps men in this dislike, but that is another point for another discussion. It is the same way some men may not find blonds attractive or women with large noses or a nasally Fran Drescher (who I love BTW) laugh.

I DO think some (I do not want to generalize) rail (sometimes) against the men that really love BBW but in a social group or in their social status world, hide from the preference and even go against it out of adult societal peer pressure. 

Then the discussions have fired back and forth from "you don't understand the FA and his/her issues" and "try being a fat woman before you go about whining about being an FA" and everyone posts and gripes and we all have our fun in our happy little House 'o Horrors called Dimensions.


----------



## Tooz

I LOVE that this is still going on and I LOVE the fact that there are so many fat men who won't date fat women and would post a skinny chick in a "hot chick thread".


----------



## Jack Skellington

Renaissance Woman said:


> You're going to have to fight with Carl and William for the martyr title.



well said RW.

Okay, this is whole thing is really starting to irk me.

Its one thread, one god damn thread, were women are having a little fun posting some pics in a forum that is like vast oasis of male sexuality and a couple of self victimizing men are trying to control what they like and what they post. 

Double standard my arse. 

If you guys cant cope with a few pics of Johnny Depp and Christian Bale there is no way in HELL you could endure the shit BBWs (or thin women) have to endure in our culture. So the wailfull cries of how bad you guys have it here at Dims doesnt wash with me. 

One last thing to keep in mind.

Women are generally nicer and less superficial than men so if you think you are getting ignored at Dims or at size acceptance social gatherings its more than likely your personality turning them off and not your appearance. 

_Note to rest of the BHM here: I'm glad there is a BHM forum. I'm glad you guys are here and participate. BHM are kewl. I only dislike martyrs and misogynists. _


----------



## mossystate

I really believe that a smallish group of men out here would love it if women only posted pictures of themselves...adored them...wanted them...knew when to go into the parlour, while the menfolk retire to the library to create a nirvana.

As Jack said....a thread created to look at ' eye candy ' can create so much angst..wow. A thread containing pictures of fat men ( and no jeering from ANYBODY ). Getting the word out as to what some women find verrrrrrry attractive and yummy. Having ones choices splashed about like red paint on a fur coat from an irrate animal rights activist ( joke..well, except for those who actually do this..have to place that in here and fuck with my lil joke..damn!..ha )....for all to see how groovy variety...is. So, the number of women out here who tend to prefer smaller than very fat...so?....what do you propose?....that more FFA's be shipped in?

I don't sneer at fat men. I LIKE when fat men are really confident and full of smarts and joy. I like when ANY fat person finds bits and pieces of confidence. That I tend to prefer men who are not larger than me....I am somehow taking away from certain fat men?...huh?? You..cannot....force...desire. I am told to just get over LOTS of stuff. Welcome to.....life.

Every one of us have the power to press that new thread button and attempt to create our own mark on this place. Every one of us has the power to voice concerns and not try and make what someone else has or does as a fatal shot to our very core.

One thing this thread has done...hopefully...is to get more fat men who tend to stay only on one board....into the rest of Dims.....just...please....don't make it ' my ' fault that ' you ' ain't gots the heaven on earth that you desire.

Pssst...I don't have that...either. As an almost 46 year old fat woman...in this society..and here...well...I am not crying about anything..but I also know some cold hard facts about how I am seen/valued..and I am still open to individual wonderful people........in society..and the many out here. 

Chips are for cookies.

Now..I need to find the ' hot girl ' thread and get pissed off over the lack of fat women there....even though I do believe there are some..but, that won't stop me from gettin ticked..no way.:happy:


----------



## William

Hi Red Velvet

What is great about the internet is that what you and I perceive does not matter because it is all there on Google unless a website is very private.

Google "Fat Men" and "Fat Acceptance" using the quotations and you will see that most of the posts are about establishing how little fat issues Fat Men have. The perception of Fat Men in Fat Acceptance is improving all the time which is better than what I can say for society's view of all Fat People 

Stuck in there are some great articles about Fat men and also great comments for readers.

William




RedVelvet said:


> Actually..you are speaking only of your personal experience.
> 
> YOUR personal experience is valid...for you. But you cannot extrapolate from that and conclude that "that is how it is.."...you just cant.
> 
> MY personal experience, for example...directly contradicts everything you say.....from the idea that "fat men" have it easy...to this double standard you speak of.
> 
> SO...in MY personal experience....you dont gots squat.
> 
> So...whats right?


----------



## William

Hi Lilly 

I disagree because there have been many posts on Dimensions from BBWs that feel that BHM reject BBWs. I do not remember any of them getting any responses like Carl did.

i have also seen BHMs on Dimensions get a response like Carl's for even complaining of not getting any attention at a club or bar, when have you ever seen a BBW on Dimensions get the same response for making the same complaints about clubs and bars?

William




LillyBBBW said:


> Fat women rail because men in general reject fat women for thin, we do NOT rail at FAT men insisting that they must desire us above thin women because they are fat. Big difference. Huge.


----------



## stan_der_man

I get the idea that "hot boy" or "hot whatever" threads are demeaning... Nobody is claiming them to be high brow entertainment. I don't participate in them myself, but I'm by no means offended by them. What I don't get, are the BHMs on this thread posting that they are such a dejected and misunderstood group, when they have their own board, they have what appears to be numerous supporters (the FA females on their board) and absolutely nothing keeping them from posting anywhere else on Dimensions. It appears to me that the only thing holding back the BHMs are their own attitudes to a certain extent. What do these guys want... seriously...? A cheerleading squad comprised of Thin FAs, BBWs and SSBBWs? (Actually, that would be kinda cool... I'd go watch. Well, maybe not the skinny guys...) The BHMs need to be their own advocates of their cause, they need to set a good example just like the rest of us in fat acceptance need to.

I have yet to see any valid grievance, let alone a realistic remedy to whatever is being found offensive here other than "banning hot boy threads", which ain't gonna happen.


----------



## William

I know that the Hot Boy Thread is merely a eye candy thread exploiting those male celebrities, but much has been written about how Fat People are under represented in the entertainment industry and even in the modeling of Fat Clothes so photos do matter.

William




RedVelvet said:


> No...AGAIN...you seem to be confusing attraction with acceptance.
> 
> Once....again....
> 
> Putting up pictures of thin celebrities in a pretty boy thread does NOT mean that the women who posted said pictures do not like, accept, or get naked with fat men. Some might only accept and want equal rights for fat men...some might want that and to get naked with them....
> 
> THE PICTURES ARE MEANINGLESS IN A LARGER CONTEXT. They are just a snapshot of who is cute and famous (hello..famous..) right now.
> 
> REAL LIFE...not so much playing a part in this.
> 
> Its a fecking..thread.


----------



## William

I would like to take a second and remind people that Dimensions is one of the few places that people can even question the PC thoughts of Fat Acceptance without becoming a Pariah and I think that this makes Dimensions special in the Fat Acceptance World.

William


----------



## saucywench

View attachment 44014

...................................


----------



## stan_der_man

William said:


> ...
> 
> i have also seen BHMs on Dimensions get a response like Carl's for even complaining of not getting any attention at a club or bar, when have you ever seen a BBW on Dimensions get the same response for making the same complaints about clubs and bars?
> 
> William



I know this was directed at Lilly, but I would like to add if I may...

I think some of what you are talking about here seems to simply be typical friction in communications between the males and females... not necessarily a uniquely BHM phenomenon. Actually, I've complained about this exact same thing in the past. I've discovered that a lot of this comes about because of how a male addresses a subject. Rightly or wrongly, I think this is typical of debates between males and females. I've found the ladies here in Dimensions to be very understanding if things are addressed (especially sensitive topics) in a way that is not offensive, or appearing to be chauvinistic manner. This is nothing new, and it's a whole different topic of discussion in and of itself.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Jack Skellington said:


> Double standard!?
> 
> The only double standard Im seeing is that women shouldnt be able to post what the find attractive when men here do it all the time. Its okay for men to post about whatever body types, body parts, sizes and shapes they like but if women say they like anything other than BHM they are being anti-size acceptance and anti-BHM.
> *
> This whole thing reeks of self victimization and male entitlement on the part of the men martyring themselves.*




THANK YOU SO VERY VERY MUCH - THAT IS EXACTLY THE SHIT IT STINKS LIKE TO ME TOO!!!!


----------



## stan_der_man

William said:


> I would like to take a second and remind people that Dimensions is one of the few places that people can even question the PC thoughts of Fat Acceptance without becoming a Pariah and I think that this makes Dimensions special in the Fat Acceptance World.
> 
> William



I definitely agree... Differing opinions or not, we all learn from each other by discussing things, at least that's the theory.


----------



## mossystate

William said:


> I know that the Hot Boy Thread is merely a eye candy thread exploiting those male celebrities, but much has been written about how Fat People are under represented in the entertainment industry and even in the modeling of Fat Clothes so photos do matter.
> 
> William




Yes...fat people tend to be invisible, well, for the most part, in the entertainment industry....sooooooo....how do we at Dims solve that...oh, I know...we have ' hot ' threads ONLY showing fat men and women..........................................ummmmmm, not sure how THAT is changing the ' entertainment industry '....or are we all out here only supposed to date and find attractive...fat people....sooooooo...no ' small ' FAs of either gender...nope! Also does not matter if I find a particular ' type ', attractive. I will suck it up and stick with ' my kind '. I know that for me, this plan sounds...delicious.

Do you not see the number of pictures of fat people...who actually post here at Dims...? I will hire a tour guide and show you. You want more fat men pictures....POST THEM!!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Tooz said:


> I LOVE that this is still going on and I LOVE the fact that there are so many fat men who won't date fat women and would post a skinny chick in a "hot chick thread".




Shush your mouth Missy....they are fat men and EN-F**KING-TITLED to their preferences....whilst us fat girls should just feel lucky and bend over if a fat boy wants to f*ck us.


I sure as shit am not going back to the BHM board again if this is in any way representational of how fat men really are.....those FFAs down there can have ya in all your whiny glory. 

If this is NOT representational of how the majority of BHMs are, then the good ones need to start representing because right now I'm ready to puke. 


*out of thread*


----------



## William

Hi Mossy

I really do not look at the Hot Boy Thread beyond its worth as statistical data 

When the composition of the choices fit a point of view that I am making then I mention it.

William




mossystate said:


> Yes...fat people tend to be invisible, well, for the most part, in the entertainment industry....sooooooo....how do we at Dims solve that...oh, I know...we have ' hot ' threads ONLY showing fat men and women..........................................ummmmmm, not sure how THAT is changing the ' entertainment industry '....or are we all out here only supposed to date and find attractive...fat people....sooooooo...no ' small ' FAs of either gender...nope! Also does not matter if I find a particular ' type ', attractive. I will suck it up and stick with ' my kind '. I know that for me, this plan sounds...delicious.
> 
> Do you not see the number of pictures of fat people...who actually post here at Dims...? I will hire a tour guide and show you. You want more fat men pictures....POST THEM!!


----------



## The Fez

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Shush your mouth Missy....they are fat men and EN-F**KING-TITLED to their preferences....whilst us fat girls should just feel lucky and bend over if a fat boy wants to f*ck us.
> 
> 
> I sure as shit am not going back to the BHM board again if this is in any way representational of how fat men really are.....those FFAs down there can have ya in all your whiny glory.
> 
> If this is NOT representational of how the majority of BHMs are, then the good ones need to start representing because right now I'm ready to puke.
> 
> 
> *out of thread*



She'll be back


_they never really leave_


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

Let's see if we can figure this out:


Ladies - if you like fat guys, post their pics in the Hot Boy Thread

Ladies - if you like skinny guys, post their pics in the Hot Boy Thread

OR

Guys - if you like fat girls, post their pics in the Hot Girl Thread

Guys - if you like skinny girls, post their pics in the Hot Girl Thread


Them's the rules.
Simple enough.
Not rocket science.


Raise your hand if you understand. Okay I'll start.... *raises hand*


----------



## stan_der_man

saucywench said:


> ...................................



Hey Saucy... Seeing that his girl is mostly submersed in quick sand I can't tell... Is she fat or skinny?


This may actually be an issue here...


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

fa_man_stan said:


> I get the idea that "hot boy" or "hot whatever" threads are demeaning... Nobody is claiming them to be high brow entertainment. I don't participate in them myself, but I'm by no means offended by them. What I don't get, are the BHMs on this thread posting that they are such a dejected and misunderstood group, when they have their own board, they have what appears to be numerous supporters (the FA females on their board) and absolutely nothing keeping them from posting anywhere else on Dimensions. *It appears to me that the only thing holding back the BHMs are their own attitudes to a certain extent. What do these guys want... seriously...? A cheerleading squad comprised of Thin FAs, BBWs and SSBBWs?* (Actually, that would be kinda cool... I'd go watch. Well, maybe not the skinny guys...) The BHMs need to be their own advocates of their cause, they need to set a good example just like the rest of us in fat acceptance need to.
> 
> I have yet to see any valid grievance, let alone a realistic remedy to whatever is being found offensive here other than "banning hot boy threads", which ain't gonna happen.



Exactly....and have you been down to the BHM board? A lot of those FFAs are ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS...and they are soooo good to those guys. They come out and give them compliment after compliment. Do you realize how many picture threads are down there? Helluva lot more than the weight board if I had my bet. They get plenty of attention....from beautiful women of all sizes. 
Yet...they want to continuously bash the fatties....why? Will one of you please tell us the REAL reason you are so miffed? Did some fat woman turn you down? Did you whine like this elsewhere and got bent that people didn't bend over backwards for you? 
I really think this goes beyond the hot boy thread....but they just couldn't come up with a better "example" of why they should be unhappy.


----------



## stan_der_man

Violet_Beauregard said:


> Let's see if we can figure this out:
> 
> 
> Ladies - if you like fat guys, post their pics in the Hot Boy Thread
> 
> Ladies - if you like skinny guys, post their pics in the Hot Boy Thread
> 
> OR
> 
> Guys - if you like fat girls, post their pics in the Hot Girl Thread
> 
> Guys - if you like skinny girls, post their pics in the Hot Girl Thread
> 
> 
> Them's the rules.
> Simple enough.
> Not rocket science.
> 
> 
> Raise your hand if you understand. Okay I'll start.... *raises hand*



...ah, but what if a guy secretly likes hot boyz? :blush: 



Maybe there needs to be a "Hot Goy thread"...?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Freestyle Fez said:


> She'll be back
> 
> 
> _they never really leave_



Got me....I should have waited until I finished reading the whole thread before I said that


----------



## Shosh

fa_man_stan said:


> ...ah, but what if a guy secretly likes hot boyz? :blush:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe there needs to be a "Hot Goy thread"...?



Or an "Oy Va Voy" thread.


----------



## Smite

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Exactly....and have you been down to the BHM board? A lot of those FFAs are ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS...and they are soooo good to those guys. They come out and give them compliment after compliment. Do you realize how many picture threads are down there? Helluva lot more than the weight board if I had my bet. They get plenty of attention....from beautiful women of all sizes.
> Yet...they want to continuously bash the fatties....why? Will one of you please tell us the REAL reason you are so miffed? Did some fat woman turn you down? Did you whine like this elsewhere and got bent that people didn't bend over backwards for you?
> I really think this goes beyond the hot boy thread....but they just couldn't come up with a better "example" of why they should be unhappy.



I'm sure you hit the nail on the head with the "Did some fat woman turn you down?". Probably that whole "Well, you're fat too you fuck" stigmata thing, leading to feuds between the two camps. Plus, as we all learned a short while ago, some BHM's might stick up for the FFA's who don't like the BBW's....

I would go more in depth, but apparently i'm up there as a martyr so :/.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

Those go on a whole 'nother internetz.... 




fa_man_stan said:


> ...ah, but what if a guy secretly likes hot boyz? :blush:
> 
> 
> 
> Maybe there needs to be a "Hot Goy thread"...?





Susannah said:


> Or an "Oy Va Voy" thread.


----------



## Tooz

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Shush your mouth Missy....they are fat men and EN-F**KING-TITLED to their preferences....whilst us fat girls should just feel lucky and bend over if a fat boy wants to f*ck us.



Does this mean I have to dump my skinny boyfriend 

WAIT. His BMI is 25.1. DOES THAT MAKE HIM A BHM?



p.s. I love the rest of the post which I did not quote.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Smite said:


> I'm sure you hit the nail on the head with the "Did some fat woman turn you down?". Probably that whole "Well, you're fat too you fuck" stigmata thing, leading to feuds between the two camps. Plus, as we all learned a short while ago, some BHM's might stick up for the FFA's who don't like the BBW's....
> 
> I would go more in depth, but apparently i'm up there as a martyr so :/.



So....a woman...a FAT woman turned you down....does this mean that a skinny one never has?

And if a skinny one has...why does this thread read like it's only us fat women that "OWE" you fat boys something? 

You know....news flash.....not all fat boys find me attractive. Should I be angry and go down to the BHM board and whine about it? Does it give me some special rights to gripe specifically about fat boys?

I mean does fat on my body mean that fat on yours HAS to look good to me? and vice versa? If you dig fat chicks, then dig them. However, there isn't a woman on this planet that owes you a fuck or a compliment.....nor does any man owe me one.

Feel "equal" now?


----------



## Smite

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> So....a woman...a FAT woman turned you down....does this mean that a skinny one never has?
> 
> And if a skinny one has...why does this thread read like it's only us fat women that "OWE" you fat boys something?
> 
> You know....news flash.....not all fat boys find me attractive. Should I be angry and go down to the BHM board and whine about it? Does it give me some special rights to gripe specifically about fat boys?



Yo, yo yo GEF, I wasn't speaking from personal experience, just from my time in the position of overlooking. 

But it's just how it is. *SOME* BHM's think that if someones fat then they should like fat. 

Don't label me in with these complainers. I could give two shits about the whole subject.


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

Actually, I've been thinking about this and I am confused as to why the whole BHM thing is an issue? I mean, it's one thread and it should be known that just because you're fat doesn't mean you've got to be attracted to other fat people. There is an entire board over just one silly lil' thread such as the hot guy one and it's really that big of a deal? I'm sorry, but if that is getting to you this badly, I can only imagine how some other stuff must go over. I'd probably be living in the fetal position if that was the case.

I guess I am having a hard time understanding what the deal is. I used to be a lot heavier and didn't have any trouble with certain aspects of existence. I always had the "teddy bear" thing going on though. I mean, I just think it's way friggin' easier for fat men in society over fat women and having been one, I can say that with 100% certainty.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Smite said:


> Yo, yo yo GEF, I wasn't speaking from personal experience, just from my time in the position of overlooking.
> 
> But it's just how it is. *SOME* BHM's think that if someones fat then they should like fat.
> 
> Don't label me in with these complainers. I could give two shits about the whole subject.




You did seem determined to jump into the middle of the drama....


I think that's what has been said in this thread...and this forum time and time again.....fat people don't HAVE to find other fatties attractive. It really IS that simple.

No one owes you or me shit just because we are fat.....treat others like human beings entitled to their feelings and preferences....and all you get back is the same.


----------



## Smite

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You did seem determined to jump into the middle of the drama....
> 
> 
> I think that's what has been said in this thread...and this forum time and time again.....fat people don't HAVE to find other fatties attractive. It really IS that simple.




I just wanted to squash the argument before Carl and William get themselves into this argument where they'll be horribly unequaled because this is DIMs. 

Of course they don't have to find them attractive. I think we all know this. I'm just telling you why some people get upset over it. 

Not to bring it up, but i'm 100% positive theres been canklegate like discussions between private PM's with the BBW's about the BHM's also. We should just face it; people don't like each other. To place this blame as a sole BHM problem is really just ignoring it all.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

DING DING DING DING DING!!!!! Give that girl a kewpie doll!!!!!!!!!

You are RIGHT on the money honey!!!





Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You did seem determined to jump into the middle of the drama....
> 
> 
> I think that's what has been said in this thread...and this forum time and time again.....*fat people don't HAVE to find other fatties attractive. It really IS that simple*.


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

Smite said:


> But it's just how it is. *SOME* BHM's think that if someones fat then they should like fat.


----------



## mossystate

William said:


> Hi Mossy
> 
> I really do not look at the Hot Boy Thread beyond its worth as statistical data
> 
> When the composition of the choices fit a point of view that I am making then I mention it.
> 
> William




ok...cool

and

continue posting pictures of skinny women in the hot girl thread....way to stick it to us fat and ungrateful women..and show how much easier fat women in the entertainment industry have it...:blink:..and how WE are the problem

and way to attack fat men who prefer thin women...^5...oh..but that's different, because pics of thin men outnumber fat ones, in the hot boy thread..d'oh

I really do not umderstand ( keeps this particular typo..for Cinda ) how much MORE male centered Dims has to become, before some are satisfied.

gah


* eta......I may not want to date ' you '...but I sure as fuck want you to be treated as fully human...deserving of every basic civil right and dignity as any other human.......but, this ain't about SA...nooooooo...only about a very understandable...but VERY ego driven to never....ever....ever.....be excluded...even by individuals...not groups......GAH!


----------



## Santaclear

Susannah said:


> Or an "Oy Va Voy" thread.



Is Dimensions becoming an "Oy Vey" website?


----------



## Smite

Believe me, nothing makes me more infuriated than when a BHM goes "I don't like fat girls, they're gross". 

And it happens. All the time.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Smite said:


> I just wanted to squash the argument before Carl and William get themselves into this argument where they'll be horribly unequaled because this is DIMs.
> 
> Of course they don't have to find them attractive. I think we all know this. I'm just telling you why some people get upset over it.
> 
> Not to bring it up, but i'm 100% positive theres been canklegate like discussions between private PM's with the BBW's about the BHM's also. We should just face it; people don't like each other. To place this blame as a sole BHM problem is really just ignoring it all.




I sometimes find it hard to garner your point....maybe because you waffle. If you want to simply say that some people don't like each other on Dims....well no joke. It's a bunch of human beings.....that's BOUND to happen, isn't it? It happens in reality all the time....
But this thread....it's meant to control fat women...solely fat women....by some fat guys that seem to feel entitled to our attention. Attention that I have never seen them give to other people, btw. No one is owed anything .... being fat doesn't make you a victim. I have never thought of Dims as the "victim gathering place" but more like a site to help bring people together, show the other side of the coin, and create strength/safety in numbers. 

The whining, and victim mentality, has gotten stale.....and is really counter productive to anything.


----------



## Donna

There was no "feud between the two camps" until someone decided it was a good idea to whine about it here on the main board because he didn't like that some of the women who call Dimensions home actually like men who aren't fat themselves. I am just floored at this whole discussion. Like Violet so astutely pointed out above, perspective people. P-E-R-S-P-E-C-T-I-V-E. Oh, and since I am allowing my inner bitch out and spelling things out, let me spell out something else. Does the phrase willfully obtuse mean anything? W-i-l-l-f-u-l-l-y O-b-t-u-s-e.  

And before I am dismissed as just another hag, know this: not all the FFA's that hang around at Dims post to or even read the BHM board. I have found that board at times to be very whiny and not indicative of the BHM I know and love. The BHM I am married to isn't at all threatened when I cast an admiring glance in the direction of Brendan Frasier or Vin Diesel. You know why? He knows at the end of the day, he's the one that makes me purr.


----------



## Smite

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I sometimes find it hard to garner your point....maybe because you waffle. If you want to simply say that some people don't like each other on Dims....well no joke. It's a bunch of human beings.....that's BOUND to happen, isn't it? It happens in reality all the time....
> But this thread....it's meant as a bash to fat women...solely fat women....by some fat guys that seem to feel entitled to our attention. Attention that I have never seen them give to other people, btw. No one is owed anything .... being fat doesn't make you a victim. I have never thought of Dims as the "victim gathering place" but more like a site to help bring people together, show the other side of the coin, and create strength/safety in numbers.
> 
> The whining, and victim mentality, has gotten stale.....and is really counter productive to anything.



Unless i'm wrong, which is totally plausible, I highly doubt the people complaining about the thread are in here just because the thread was full of skinny people. I'm sure there were some things said that led to this being created. I remember on the BHM board there was a thread asking for people to "bomb" the Hot Boy thread with BHM's. I'm sure that's why they're upset.

Also if you've never thought of Dims as a victim gathering place, then you're in for a rude awakening. How many "look at me wallow in my self pity" posts have you read, atleast on the BHM side? I know I read a lot, and they hit that victim mentallity perfectly. I think DIMs is seen as a last resort for some, which is sad and is abusing the site instead of using it, IMHO.

Of course it's gotten stale, but unless you implement rules disbarring it, then it will forever be.

EDIT: And alot of this has been going down as "hush hush". You can always see it implied.


----------



## Jack Skellington

Smite said:


> I just wanted to squash the argument before Carl and William get themselves into this argument where they'll be horribly unequaled because this is DIMs.



If they are "horribly unequaled" here it is only because they are making themselves out to be two of the most self pitying, self victimizing, self absorbed whiners here when the vast majority of everyone else at Dims (male and female of all sizes) are pretty dang cool.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

Quoted and bolded for emphasis.... extremely well said. 




Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I sometimes find it hard to garner your point....maybe because you waffle. If you want to simply say that some people don't like each other on Dims....well no joke. It's a bunch of human beings.....that's BOUND to happen, isn't it? It happens in reality all the time....
> *But this thread....it's meant to control fat women...solely fat women....by some fat guys that seem to feel entitled to our attention.* Attention that I have never seen them give to other people, btw. No one is owed anything .... being fat doesn't make you a victim. I have never thought of Dims as the "victim gathering place" but more like a site to help bring people together, show the other side of the coin, and create strength/safety in numbers.
> 
> The whining, and victim mentality, has gotten stale.....and is really counter productive to anything.





Donnaalicious said:


> *There was no "feud between the two camps" until someone decided it was a good idea to whine about it here on the main board because he didn't like that some of the women who call Dimensions home actually like men who aren't fat themselves. * I am just floored at this whole discussion. Like Violet so astutely pointed out above, perspective people. P-E-R-S-P-E-C-T-I-V-E. Oh, and since I am allowing my inner bitch out and spelling things out, let me spell out something else. Does the phrase willfully obtuse mean anything? W-i-l-l-f-u-l-l-y O-b-t-u-s-e.
> 
> And before I am dismissed as just another hag, know this: not all the FFA's that hang around at Dims post to or even read the BHM board. I have found that board at times to be very whiny and not indicative of the BHM I know and love. The BHM I am married to isn't at all threatened when I cast an admiring glance in the direction of Brendan Frasier or Vin Diesel. You know why? He knows at the end of the day, he's the one that makes me purr.


----------



## Smite

I meant because they posted this on a board that is frequented by more BBW's and FA's than BHM's and FFA's, so the mob mentality would do it's work (which is why this is at 13 pages when on the BHM board it'd be at about 4).


----------



## Tooz

Also people seem to be missing that while BHMs are more than welcome here, BBWs are the main focus? Aren't there sites mainly for BHMs?


----------



## Smite

Tooz said:


> Also people seem to be missing that while BHMs are more than welcome here, BBWs are the main focus? Aren't there sites mainly for BHMs?




There certainly is, but one specific one kicks this shit out of the front door as soon as it enters!


----------



## Blackjack

Smite said:


> I meant because they posted this on a board that is frequented by more BBW's and FA's than BHM's and FFA's, so the mob mentality would do it's work (which is why this is at 13 pages when on the BHM board it'd be at about 4).



Actually it might have to do with this thread being in a more highly populated area than the BHM board.


----------



## Smite

Blackjack said:


> Actually it might have to do with this thread being in a more highly populated area than the BHM board.



Sorry, I meant board as in "Main Dimensions Board", not as in Dimensions as a whole.


----------



## Blackjack

Smite said:


> Sorry, I meant board as in "Main Dimensions Board", not as in Dimensions as a whole.



As did I. The Main Dimensions Board is more highly populated than the BHM Board, I'd think, having almost twice as many threads and more than three times as many posts.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

This is quoting Conrad in the "Feeling out of Place" thread......




> Well, keep in mind that I started this as a thin, married FA, and I did NOT start it for single FAs to score. Instead, the idea was getting FAs, all FAs, a place where they could gather, exchange experiences, learn from one another, realize that they were not the only ones in the world to have those feelings and desires.
> 
> But I also felt that many fat women could benefit from learning more about FAs, how they felt, how they saw the world and fat women, and so on. I felt that would help finding more self appreciation and confidence as a spiritual as well as a sexual being.
> 
> I saw two generally poorly socialized groups that potentially were a match made in heaven, if they only learned to understand each other and came to trust each other. And over the years, many couples found each other through our Dimensions community.
> 
> Dimensions IS a place for FAs. It was created for FAs. I've always seen FAs as very reliable, tireless supporters of the size acceptance movement. And I certainly saw their dedication confirmed during the many years I was NAAFA's chairman of the board. Being a FA means more than finding a fat partner. To me, and to many others, it means a deep dedication to size acceptance.







Tooz said:


> Also people seem to be missing that while BHMs are more than welcome here, BBWs are the main focus? Aren't there sites mainly for BHMs?


----------



## Smite

Blackjack said:


> As did I. The Main Dimensions Board is more highly populated than the BHM Board, I'd think, having almost twice as many threads and more than three times as many posts.



Yeah I know lol, was trying to not make myself look like a total tool


----------



## William

Hi Tooz

It really shouldn't matter what gender a website is geared toward, the other gender should at least be respected and Dimensions does a great job at that.

The BBW community has a great lead on the BHM activity and it is hard for a new community to compete rather than be absorbed.

Secular recovery programs have similar problems competing with AA. 

William




Tooz said:


> Also people seem to be missing that while BHMs are more than welcome here, BBWs are the main focus? Aren't there sites mainly for BHMs?


----------



## Tooz

This is ridiculous. I'm not going to rebut because there is so much I could say, but it would fall on deaf ears. If you don't like it, don't look or leave. It's simple. I stay away from Hyde Park because I get upset. Others can do the same with what offends them.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

William said:


> Hi Tooz
> 
> It really shouldn't matter what gender a website is geared toward, the other gender should at least be respected and Dimensions does a great job at that.
> 
> The BBW community has a great lead on the BHM activity and it is hard for a new community to compete rather than be absorbed.
> 
> *Secular recovery programs have similar problems competing with AA.
> *
> William




Gee, why would other recovery programs have to "compete" with AA? They are both the same thing...with the same goal.
Is that how you see this...as a "competition" for the BHMs to get more attention than BBWs?


----------



## saucywench

fa_man_stan said:


> Hey Saucy... Seeing that his girl is mostly submersed in quick sand I can't tell... Is she fat or skinny?
> 
> 
> This may actually be an issue here...


That's me. I lost all that weight treading through this thread.


----------



## William

Not really but the question was asked if there was a website for BHM and I answered to the best that I could. The BBW websites are established and BHM websites are just start-ups finding their way.

Alcoholics Anonymous and Secularism is a whole story in itself which you can Google 




Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Gee, why would other recovery programs have to "compete" with AA? They are both the same thing...with the same goal.
> Is that how you see this...as a "competition" for the BHMs to get more attention than BBWs?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

William said:


> Not really but the question was asked if there was a website for BHM and I answered to the best that I could. The BBW websites are established and BHM websites are just start-ups finding their way.
> 
> Alcoholics Anonymous and Secularism is a whole story in itself which you can Google




No need- I have been to OA. I have never felt a "competition" with alcoholics. It was actually quite eye-opening to realize we were following and reading the same text as alcoholics...it also taught me some humility. 

Humility...it's really a good thing sometimes.


----------



## mossystate

I have tried to humiliate you, Green. 

oh

nevermind


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

mossystate said:


> I have tried to humiliate you, Green.
> 
> oh
> 
> nevermind



That's okay- at least we are fatty on fatty.......


----------



## mossystate

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> That's okay- at least we are fatty on fatty.......




Yet, my loins do not stir for you.


* waits for the Fatty Patrol to come nab me..they better bring many..I am fatter than I look *


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

mossystate said:


> Yet, my loins do not stir for you.
> 
> 
> * waits for the Fatty Patrol to come nab me..they better bring many..*I am fatter than I look* *



Post wate and sizess plz kthx




**Oh gawd...the rep gods won't allow me to type LOLOLOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL into your rep window right now


----------



## Santaclear

I'm the guy who likes taters on the "I'm the guy who hates the hot guy thread" thread.

Can we talk about it here? 

View attachment french_fries2.jpg


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Santa.....you're not right.... I just had to pull my big fat ass up from the floor because I fell so hard whilst chortling.......


Oh yeah, you're not fat so I better stop posting to you....because it's not allowed.....


----------



## mossystate

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Post wate and sizess plz kthx
> 
> 
> 
> 
> **Oh gawd...the rep gods won't allow me to type LOLOLOLOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL into your rep window right now





Woman on Woman......every straight man can get behind that...well, not literally....our combined asses would block out any light in the room......but.....this should calm the male angst we are experiencing.

See, we give...and...give...and...giiiiiiiive.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Ahhhh I see, I see.....so should we take pixors of our fatty love making? But...what board do we post them on? They won't be fully appreciated if we don't find the right board to post pictures of ourselves on.......

I MUST HAVE HUNDREDS OF FAT MEN OGLE ME BEFORE I CAN BE HAPPY GDI


----------



## mossystate

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Ahhhh I see, I see.....so should we take pixors of our fatty love making? But...what board do we post them on? They won't be fully appreciated if we don't find the right board to post pictures of ourselves on.......
> 
> I MUST HAVE HUNDREDS OF FAT MEN OGLE ME BEFORE I CAN BE HAPPY GDI





Hmmmmmmmmmm....* much hand wringing *

let us wait for instruction


we are such.....obedient women


----------



## Jack Skellington

mossystate said:


> Hmmmmmmmmmm....* much hand wringing *
> 
> let us wait for instruction
> 
> 
> we are such.....obedient women



Mossy and you too Green, you know, it's difficult for me to stay irked when you two are being so silly.


----------



## Spanky

I need some ketchup. Anybody have any??


----------



## mossystate

Jack Skellington said:


> Mossy and you too Green, you know, it's difficult for me to stay irked when you two are being so silly.




I can turn it off and on...I am talented that way.....


----------



## Fascinita

Santaclear said:


> I'm the guy who likes taters on the "I'm the guy who hates the hot guy thread" thread.
> 
> Can we talk about it here?



Weeeeelll... I'm the girl who took one look at your pic of crinkled fries and had to go to the kitchen to make myself a fresh batch.

Can we talk about that here?

Everybody look at me.

*Gynormous boobies making dolphin sounds*


----------



## Blackjack

Fascinita said:


> *Gynormous boobies making dolphin sounds*



Pics or it didn't happen.

Would they happen to be as big as the 'do you're sportin' over there in your avatar?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Fascinita said:


> Weeeeelll... I'm the girl who took one look at your pic of crinkled fries and had to go to the kitchen to make myself a fresh batch.
> 
> Can we talk about that here?
> 
> Everybody look at me.
> 
> *Gynormous boobies making dolphin sounds*




Errrmmmmm... post pix o ginormes bewbs plz kthx


*edit: you were only one second faster than me Kevin......one lousy second.....


----------



## Fascinita

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Errrmmmmm... post pix o ginormes bewbs plz kthx



I tried to capture the dolphin sounds, but I'm just not that tech savvy. 

But here you go! Boobies!

View attachment 44029


You likey? :batting:

BJ--are those bigger than my hair, or are those bigger than my hair? Huh?  Wink.


----------



## TraciJo67

mossystate said:


> Hmmmmmmmmmm....* much hand wringing *
> 
> let us wait for instruction
> 
> 
> we are such.....obedient women



::: stampedes in, looks around, sees two of teh hotz fatties all nekkid & glistening, writhing on a badly rumpled bed .... :::

Wait. Just feckin' wait a minute. Is that a pork chop you're gnawing on, Mossything? Here? Now??!?? While we're (ok, *I'm*) directing? This isn't a feeder movie. It's girl-on-girl action, meant for *his* viewing pleasure (and while we're at it, could you please stop looking so bored?). 

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand sceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeene


----------



## Buffie

First, I would like to apologize if my Hot Boy Thread ever hurt any feelings. That most certainly was never my intent. I sincerely feel bad when things I do cause other folks to be bummed out. However, I can't and don't tippy toe around in life fretting over every move I make. All I can do is rely on my intent, which is 99% of the time to just have fun. So please accept my apology and realize there was never any malice on my behalf.

Second, as a fat person I am painfully aware of how it feels to be excluded or perceive exclusion by a group of people. It sucks. But it's up to us as individuals to either seek out places where we are wanted or question and/or change our own perspectives. That's a personal choice and often a challenge, too. 



Tooz said:


> Also people seem to be missing that while BHMs are more than welcome here, BBWs are the main focus? Aren't there sites mainly for BHMs?


 Right you are, chickadoodle. A simple Google search will hit on several BHM-specific sites. I would even say Dims is equally BBW and BHM specific. In my opinion, Dims welcomes all types.

From where I stand, I do tend to feel like big men "get away with" more than big women though. Watch MTV much? You'll see fat men in music videos, fat men on reality shows. But fat women? Nope. Only as the butts of jokes. 

In Maxim and FHM, fat jokes about women abound. Fat jokes about men in Glamour or Cosmo? Fraid not. ...More fat jokes about women, actually... or more articles about how to hate yourself for not starving or exercising obsessively.

Do fat men have it "easy"? Nah, probably not. But frankly, who DOES have it easy? I'd like to know. So we have our own different kinds of issues. The world is full of issues. All we can really do is brush it off and get on with the day. 

Please don't let the Hot Boy Thread affect how you feel about yourself. Enjoy the fact that you've landed on a website with literally *hundreds* of wonderful people. (How many other sites can honestly boast that?) You are surrounded by people who've been where you are and people who appreciate you not only for how you look, but for who you are. I also have to say, there is a nice variety of BHMs on the Hot Boy Thread... there's a little bit of everything there quite frankly. I think we can all agree that HOT comes in every size, shape, and color. 

Find your inner hot and embrace it. If you need help, I'll bet you a dollar there's a FFA some where on here who is more than willing to assist you in your journey of discovering inner hotness. 

Namasté,
~Buffie


----------



## Santaclear

Well said, Buffie.



Fascinita said:


> I tried to capture the dolphin sounds, but I'm just not that tech savvy.
> But here you go! Boobies!
> You likey? :batting:
> BJ--are those bigger than my hair, or are those bigger than my hair? Huh?  Wink.



They're pretty big! :smitten: I can kinda hear the dolphin sounds. :blush:


----------



## PolarKat

Buffie said:


> Right you are, chickadoodle. A simple Google search will hit on several BHM-specific sites. I would even say Dims is equally BBW and BHM specific. In my opinion, Dims welcomes all types.


OT.. what search terms are you using.. I'm not even picking up anything just Dims, a hosptial.. bank.. and BBW dating sites?? I didn't think there were any sites Specific fro BHM until smite started www.bhmffaconnection.com a couple months ago??


----------



## mossystate

TraciJo67 said:


> ::: stampedes in, looks around, sees two of teh hotz fatties all nekkid & glistening, writhing on a badly rumpled bed .... :::
> 
> Wait. Just feckin' wait a minute. Is that a pork chop you're gnawing on, Mossything? Here? Now??!?? While we're (ok, *I'm*) directing? This isn't a feeder movie. It's girl-on-girl action, meant for *his* viewing pleasure (and while we're at it, could you please stop looking so bored?).
> 
> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand sceeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeene




Pork...Mossy........the other white meats.


Smell my fingers, Traci.


----------



## olwen

William said:


> Hi Butch
> 
> I have no problem with the NAAFA/Diminsions./BBW Dance origins of Fat Acceptance. I was only using them as an example of the support given to Fat Women who were questioning and protesting some of the same issues that Carl is raising. I never once read any BBW complaining about society being told that it is just a matter of choice and to get over it. It is just another of the many BHM double-standards out there.
> 
> You are right that there needs to be more Fat Men active in Fat Acceptance. I can only tell them to jump in and speak out against the common Fat Acceptance theme that Fat Men have it so easy.
> 
> I have no problem with the choices expressed in the Hot Boy thread other than they are a direct and powerful contradiction of the so called acceptance of Fat Men &#61514;
> 
> William




OMG William, so now i can't like falafel and ham? 

Do u want to be accepted for what you look like or who you are? It won't always be both all the time. Even skinny people can't always claim both all the time. Do u understand that is what u are demanding from us? U insist on demanding "acceptance" from us, yet it seems to me u've yet to accept yourself. If u had u wouldn't be so bitter.


----------



## olwen

William said:


> Hi Jack
> 
> I have been around Fat Acceptance for a long time and have hear thousands of Fat Women rail against Men that reject Fat Women (even if they are Fat Men) and I have never once heard anyone say that it is just a natural choice and those BBWs should accept it.
> 
> Well you see what happens when a BHM raises the same issues. I only see a double standard in the way BBW and BHM issues are Accepted (rejected) in Fat Acceptance.
> 
> William




Not true. I've said this many times: not all men will want me, and that doesn't make them jerks. My three best male friends are thin. They don't want to sleep with me, yet they still love and accept me. Men are only jerks when they try to purposely treat me like crap. See the difference?


----------



## olwen

fa_man_stan said:


> I get the idea that "hot boy" or "hot whatever" threads are demeaning... Nobody is claiming them to be high brow entertainment. I don't participate in them myself, but I'm by no means offended by them. What I don't get, are the BHMs on this thread posting that they are such a dejected and misunderstood group, when they have their own board, they have what appears to be numerous supporters (the FA females on their board) and absolutely nothing keeping them from posting anywhere else on Dimensions. It appears to me that the only thing holding back the BHMs are their own attitudes to a certain extent. What do these guys want... seriously...? A cheerleading squad comprised of Thin FAs, BBWs and SSBBWs? (Actually, that would be kinda cool... I'd go watch. Well, maybe not the skinny guys...) The BHMs need to be their own advocates of their cause, they need to set a good example just like the rest of us in fat acceptance need to.
> 
> I have yet to see any valid grievance, let alone a realistic remedy to whatever is being found offensive here other than "banning hot boy threads", which ain't gonna happen.



Exactly! 

I doubt any of the bhms really need someone else to advocate for them when the are clearly are so vocal about what bugs them. why wait for someone else to fill the niche you feel is lacking when you could fill it yourselves? Having a poor me attitude will only get u so far. So just quit feeling sorry for yourselves. And yes I'd say the same thing if you were women.


----------



## stan_der_man

Fascinita said:


> Weeeeelll... I'm the girl who took one look at your pic of crinkled fries and had to go to the kitchen to make myself a fresh batch.
> 
> Can we talk about that here?
> 
> Everybody look at me.
> 
> *Gynormous boobies making dolphin sounds*



Here are your sound effects Fascinita: 


I thought the sea lions sounded best...


----------



## olwen

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Exactly....and have you been down to the BHM board? A lot of those FFAs are ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS...and they are soooo good to those guys. They come out and give them compliment after compliment. Do you realize how many picture threads are down there? Helluva lot more than the weight board if I had my bet. They get plenty of attention....from beautiful women of all sizes.
> Yet...they want to continuously bash the fatties....why? Will one of you please tell us the REAL reason you are so miffed? Did some fat woman turn you down? Did you whine like this elsewhere and got bent that people didn't bend over backwards for you?
> I really think this goes beyond the hot boy thread....but they just couldn't come up with a better "example" of why they should be unhappy.



I wondered the same thing. I'm guessing somewhere along the line a fat woman rejected them and they haven't wrapped their brains around it. Guess what guys, fat women get rejected too - by fat men also. 


William, if I use your line of reasoning, then I should be upset about how ssooooo many FFAs are thin or that you all like that they are thin. But I'm not. Why should I feel threatened by that? Have you never had any woman love you? Is that the real issue for you? It makes me think this is the reason you harbor so much resentment. If so then that thread is neither here nor there and you have some soul searching to do.


----------



## Wild Zero

ITT: Hey guys, my sense of worth is indexed to the goings on of an overwhelmingly size-positive message board. As such I'm going to complain about said message board's content in extremely specific instances that upset me.


BRAD PITT, IN MY INTERNETS?


----------



## Tina

I'll have to bring out that old saw about getting off of the cross/es, we need the wood. It's all just so dramatic it's giving me the vapors.






Vi, you said it best: 


Violet_Beauregard said:


> Let's see if we can figure this out:
> 
> Ladies - if you like fat guys, post their pics in the Hot Boy Thread
> 
> Ladies - if you like skinny guys, post their pics in the Hot Boy Thread
> 
> OR
> 
> Guys - if you like fat girls, post their pics in the Hot Girl Thread
> 
> Guys - if you like skinny girls, post their pics in the Hot Girl Thread



But see, that's too common-sense and reasoned. Not nearly enough like a Telemundo soap opera.

The excitement is too much for me, I'm going to bed.


----------



## vardon_grip

Why does this thread have such long legs? I think there is truth on both sides of the issue. From the looks of things, it is more "fun" to ridicule, ignore, misrepresent or vomit on other people's opinions. Maybe...just maybe, if we were all so damn secure with ourselves, we wouldn't have to beat the other side into seeing how wrong they are.




Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, 222230 (It applies for both sides, methinks)


----------



## olwen

vardon_grip said:


> Why does this thread have such long legs? I think there is truth on both sides of the issue. From the looks of things, it is more "fun" to ridicule, ignore, misrepresent or vomit on other people's opinions. Maybe...just maybe, if we were all so damn secure with ourselves, we wouldn't have to beat the other side into seeing how wrong they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, 222230 (It applies for both sides, methinks)



Switzerland!


----------



## William

Hi Olwen

I am only saying that those BBW were allowed to complain about their problems and thoughts in Fat Acceptance, Carl got jumped on from the start.

William




olwen said:


> Not true. I've said this many times: not all men will want me, and that doesn't make them jerks. My three best male friends are thin. They don't want to sleep with me, yet they still love and accept me. Men are only jerks when they try to purposely treat me like crap. See the difference?


----------



## William

Hi Olwen

You are not even understanding what I have said on this thread. I have not said anything about the choices that women have made in this thread, it about follows what society says is attractive for both Men and Women. What really pisses me off is that Fat Acceptance expends so much time and energy creating a image that Fat Men have little or few problems. It is like some kind of passive aggressive attack on Fat Men for being Men and ignores what Fat Men experience.

Carl's issues with the Hot Boy Thread came out of comment I made on totally different thread and in that thread I was only using the Hot Boy thread as statistical data.

It would be hypocritical for me to criticize the choices on the Hot Boy Thread since I have shared that I primarily date and am attracted to chubby/Fat Women.

William 




olwen said:


> I wondered the same thing. I'm guessing somewhere along the line a fat woman rejected them and they haven't wrapped their brains around it. Guess what guys, fat women get rejected too - by fat men also.
> 
> 
> William, if I use your line of reasoning, then I should be upset about how ssooooo many FFAs are thin or that you all like that they are thin. But I'm not. Why should I feel threatened by that? Have you never had any woman love you? Is that the real issue for you? It makes me think this is the reason you harbor so much resentment. If so then that thread is neither here nor there and you have some soul searching to do.


----------



## bexy

the more i think about this the more annoyed i get.
the op is suggesting threads such as the Hot Boy Thread have no place at Dims. The facts are, there are men in that thread that women here find attractive, fat women are attracted to them and so are expressing their sexuality and taste by taking part in the thread.

we are fat, but still entitled to have sexual feelings, about whomever we choose. Dims embraces Fat Sexuality giving it its own board. My "sexuality" is my attraction to certain men, including my fiance, who are quite slender. I should be allowed to talk about this and not discouraged from expressing that anywhere. 

Dims is about the only place we could post pics of Hot Boys without being told *"like zomg he wud nvr go 4u u r waaay 2 faaat!!". *We can post these pics and talk about them, express our tastes and desires just like any other girl in the world. Now where is the issue with that exactly??


----------



## William

This thread has such long legs because of the fact that if a BBW had of made a similar post like Carl's (before Carl's) about a string of photos of skinny women there would have been no response like Carl has gotten.

I may not agree with Carl's disagreement on the photos, but when BHM stances which are similar to many stances made by BBWs are treated differently then there is a problem.

I do not think that there will be closure to this thread, but the issues that it has raised will be thought about and somewhat incorporated by people.

William--I have to get back to studying "Sensitivity Analysis" and NPV 




vardon_grip said:


> Why does this thread have such long legs? I think there is truth on both sides of the issue. From the looks of things, it is more "fun" to ridicule, ignore, misrepresent or vomit on other people's opinions. Maybe...just maybe, if we were all so damn secure with ourselves, we wouldn't have to beat the other side into seeing how wrong they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, 222230 (It applies for both sides, methinks)


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

I'll work on that Tina.... I'll toss in some whining, moaning, groaning.... and perhaps some tears... just for the hell of it.... yes????




Tina said:


> I'll have to bring out that old saw about getting off of the cross/es, we need the wood. It's all just so dramatic it's giving me the vapors.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vi, you said it best:
> 
> 
> But see, that's too common-sense and reasoned. Not nearly enough like a Telemundo soap opera.
> 
> The excitement is too much for me, I'm going to bed.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

You know William, that is absolutely untrue. What Carl is complaining about is ENTERTAINMENT!!!! It was a harmless thread about what cute guys that people liked!!!!! Fat OR thin!!!!!!! It wasn't a reflection on the BHM on this board, or in real life for that matter... it was FUN!!!! ENTERTAINMENT!!!!!! The sooner Carl and YOU realize that it is NO BIG DEAL, the better off we will ALL be!!!!!!!!






William said:


> Hi Olwen
> 
> I am only saying that those BBW were allowed to complain about their problems and thoughts in Fat Acceptance, Carl got jumped on from the start.
> 
> William


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

No, this thread has long legs because initially people were trying to point out what I just posted... the Hot Boy Thread was for FUN!!!! Not a reflection on the BHM. PERIOD. Then the thread derailed because the OP (and a couple of others) have such thick skulls that they just don't get that the thread was strictly for entertainment. Nothing more. At this point, there isn't any reason to keep trying to explain it to them... THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT. Everyone else may as well amuse themselves over what was a completely ridiculous topic in he first place. 





vardon_grip said:


> Why does this thread have such long legs? I think there is truth on both sides of the issue. From the looks of things, it is more "fun" to ridicule, ignore, misrepresent or vomit on other people's opinions. Maybe...just maybe, if we were all so damn secure with ourselves, we wouldn't have to beat the other side into seeing how wrong they are.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hamlet Act 3, scene 2, 222230 (It applies for both sides, methinks)


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Buffie said:


> First, I would like to apologize if my Hot Boy Thread ever hurt any feelings. That most certainly was never my intent. I sincerely feel bad when things I do cause other folks to be bummed out. However, I can't and don't tippy toe around in life fretting over every move I make. All I can do is rely on my intent, which is 99% of the time to just have fun. So please accept my apology and realize there was never any malice on my behalf.
> 
> Second, as a fat person I am painfully aware of how it feels to be excluded or perceive exclusion by a group of people. It sucks. But it's up to us as individuals to either seek out places where we are wanted or question and/or change our own perspectives. That's a personal choice and often a challenge, too.
> 
> Right you are, chickadoodle. A simple Google search will hit on several BHM-specific sites. I would even say Dims is equally BBW and BHM specific. In my opinion, Dims welcomes all types.
> 
> From where I stand, I do tend to feel like big men "get away with" more than big women though. Watch MTV much? You'll see fat men in music videos, fat men on reality shows. But fat women? Nope. Only as the butts of jokes.
> 
> In Maxim and FHM, fat jokes about women abound. Fat jokes about men in Glamour or Cosmo? Fraid not. ...More fat jokes about women, actually... or more articles about how to hate yourself for not starving or exercising obsessively.
> 
> Do fat men have it "easy"? Nah, probably not. But frankly, who DOES have it easy? I'd like to know. So we have our own different kinds of issues. The world is full of issues. All we can really do is brush it off and get on with the day.
> 
> Please don't let the Hot Boy Thread affect how you feel about yourself. Enjoy the fact that you've landed on a website with literally *hundreds* of wonderful people. (How many other sites can honestly boast that?) You are surrounded by people who've been where you are and people who appreciate you not only for how you look, but for who you are. I also have to say, there is a nice variety of BHMs on the Hot Boy Thread... there's a little bit of everything there quite frankly. I think we can all agree that HOT comes in every size, shape, and color.
> 
> Find your inner hot and embrace it. If you need help, I'll bet you a dollar there's a FFA some where on here who is more than willing to assist you in your journey of discovering inner hotness.
> 
> Namasté,
> ~Buffie



Thank you...for bringing some class and reason to this thread  :bow:


----------



## Ruby Ripples

mergirl said:


> i mean the royal "we"
> 
> xmer



LMAO

apparently lmao is too short


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

olwen said:


> OMG William, so now i can't like falafel and ham?
> 
> *Do u want to be accepted for what you look like or who you are?  It won't always be both all the time. Even skinny people can't always claim both all the time. * Do u understand that is what u are demanding from us? U insist on demanding "acceptance" from us, yet it seems to me u've yet to accept yourself. If u had u wouldn't be so bitter.





olwen said:


> Not true. I've said this many times: not all men will want me, and that doesn't make them jerks. My three best male friends are thin. They don't want to sleep with me, yet they still love and accept me. Men are only jerks when they try to purposely treat me like crap. See the difference?



Spot on....



William said:


> Hi Olwen
> 
> I am only saying that those BBW were allowed to complain about their problems and thoughts in Fat Acceptance, Carl got jumped on from the start.
> 
> William



Jumped on? Please define "jumped on" and what in heck does that have to do with a thread where people posted pictures of celebrities? 
What.....Carl isn't a big boy that can't take any opinions that don't agree with his own? He needs to come and bash a whole forum full of people for their sexual preferences because....he perceives he was "jumped on"...and what was he "jumped on" for? He deserves a good jumping for this damn thread....

Btw...can you give me any links to threads on the BHM board where a BBW went and made A WHOLE THREAD to chastise the BHMs for their preferences? Just curious.....



William said:


> Hi Olwen
> 
> You are not even understanding what I have said on this thread. I have not said anything about the choices that women have made in this thread, it about follows what society says is attractive for both Men and Women. What really pisses me off is that Fat Acceptance expends so much time and energy creating a image that Fat Men have little or few problems. *It is like some kind of passive aggressive attack on Fat Men for being Men and ignores what Fat Men experience.*



That thread....it was not made to spite fat men, it was not made in spite of fat men, it doesn't even ignore fat men, it HAS fat men in it. Fat men in THIS thread have yet to actually find a GOOD example of why they "feel slighted" other than fat women like thin guys, too, and don't feel the need to apologize for their preferences. This is REALLY not a good way to plead your case, William. I remember you complained about this same thing in another thread...where I quoted you and asked for specifics and examples....you never got back to me. 

You got anything better than the hot boy thread to use as "statistical data"? Because your statistical data seems a bit skewed....



William said:


> Carl's issues with the Hot Boy Thread came out of comment I made on totally different thread and in that thread I was only using the Hot Boy thread as statistical data.



You keep saying "statistical data" as in...it "proves" something....so what does it prove? That fat women can admire thin men? And....?



William said:


> It would be hypocritical for me to criticize the choices on the Hot Boy Thread since I have shared that I primarily date and am attracted to chubby/Fat Women.
> 
> William



Explains why you were just posting skinnies in the hot girl thread....and we don't need you to do us any favors. Like whatever you like...the rest of us will survive and not make *whole threads *to complain about it and act like you owe us something



Violet_Beauregard said:


> You know William, that is absolutely untrue. What Carl is complaining about is ENTERTAINMENT!!!! It was a harmless thread about what cute guys that people liked!!!!! Fat OR thin!!!!!!! It wasn't a reflection on the BHM on this board, or in real life for that matter... it was FUN!!!! ENTERTAINMENT!!!!!! The sooner Carl and YOU realize that it is NO BIG DEAL, the better off we will ALL be!!!!!!!!





Violet_Beauregard said:


> No, this thread has long legs because initially people were trying to point out what I just posted... the Hot Boy Thread was for FUN!!!! Not a reflection on the BHM. PERIOD. Then the thread derailed because the OP (and a couple of others) have such thick skulls that they just don't get that the thread was strictly for entertainment. Nothing more. At this point, there isn't any reason to keep trying to explain it to them... THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT. Everyone else may as well amuse themselves over what was a completely ridiculous topic in he first place.



EXACTLY....the whole theme of that thread is LIGHT HEARTED...just having fun. It was probably one of the least malicious threads I have seen on the net....it MEANS NOTHING other than some women enjoying each other's e-company and thinking about celebrities we find attractive. We are not "allowed" that? Oh the effing nerve of some people....seriously. Pull your heads out of your....AHEM

Oh and if any of the males wanted to go into that thread and post pics of men they find attractive or admire themselves, that would be cool, too. Hell, some of the guys on the forum posted their own pictures and got complimented....some of the women posted their significant others. Someone finds fault with that? Get real.....


----------



## LillyBBBW

William said:


> Hi Lilly
> 
> I disagree because there have been many posts on Dimensions from BBWs that feel that BHM reject BBWs. I do not remember any of them getting any responses like Carl did.
> 
> i have also seen BHMs on Dimensions get a response like Carl's for even complaining of not getting any attention at a club or bar, when have you ever seen a BBW on Dimensions get the same response for making the same complaints about clubs and bars?
> 
> William



I've seen neither of those occurances. Surleysomething made a thread about it some time ago in the BHM board and to be honest, I've had private conversations about it with other BBWs who post or lurk on the BHM board. The difference is we are not making multiple posts on the BHM board claiming that BHM's are unaccepting of fat women because we know this not to be true. As I've said several times already, attraction and acceptance are very different things.

Now, if you want to disparage the lack of attraction towards BHM's among the BBW set I think you've got something there. The discussion would be short lived though because there isn't anything anybody can do about it but point it out. It's not worthy of anyone feeling sorry for you or trying to begin a new movement. The BHM board *is* that new movement, this discussion already took place long ago. We all experience rejection in life though, even the hot boys do. Pressing charges against size acceptance because of all this goes too far in my view.


----------



## The Fez

Guys

guys guys guys

you've been reiterating the same stuff for about 10 pages now

_*Thread Over*_


----------



## LillyBBBW

William said:


> This thread has such long legs because of the fact that if a BBW had of made a similar post like Carl's (before Carl's) about a string of photos of skinny women there would have been no response like Carl has gotten.
> 
> I may not agree with Carl's disagreement on the photos, but when BHM stances which are similar to many stances made by BBWs are treated differently then there is a problem.
> 
> I do not think that there will be closure to this thread, but the issues that it has raised will be thought about and somewhat incorporated by people.
> 
> William--I have to get back to studying "Sensitivity Analysis" and NPV



Oh come now. Carl has been stinking about that hot boy thread for weeks, first on the BHM board and now this. I saw him start this crusade on the BHM board quite some time ago and so did many others. This is not a case of poor little helpless Carl with hat in hand meekly inquiring only to be unfairly attacked. His was already an agenda from the word 'go', hence the title of this post. He got exactly what he was looking for: a clusterfcuk of "proof" that BHMs are the second class citizens of Size Acceptance. The only problem is he picked an issue that has nothing at all to do with size acceptance but to acknowledge this would spoil all the fun so lets just forget about that for a minute. 

The bigger point here is that he raised an issue and everyone disagreed. It's the risk you take when you raise an issue here. I've voiced opinions that were upopular and have been similarly shot down, but we are grown folks here. Somehow we manage to move on and stay on pleasant terms. Once we get out of high school we're of legal age to let things go and not view every disagreement as a personal attack.


----------



## RedVelvet

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Ahhhh I see, I see.....so should we take pixors of our fatty love making? But...what board do we post them on? They won't be fully appreciated if we don't find the right board to post pictures of ourselves on.......
> 
> I MUST HAVE HUNDREDS OF FAT MEN OGLE ME BEFORE I CAN BE HAPPY GDI




Oh my gawd...this is a side of you I have not seen before...I AM NOW COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY IN LOVE WITH YOU.


----------



## RedVelvet

William said:


> Hi Olwen
> 
> I am only saying that those BBW were allowed to complain about their problems and thoughts in Fat Acceptance, Carl got jumped on from the start.
> 
> William




oh my goodness...I guess you have never seen the many many epic threads where a woman might say something negative about feederism, or the paysite board or fantasy posted.......and been jumped on FIERCELY from all sides....and at the highest levels...

Guess you never saw any of those clusterfucks, eh?

I think your viewpoint is narrow indeed and relates mostly to what relates directly to you.

I think thats very....human.....but not exactly.......comprehensive.


----------



## JoyJoy

William said:


> This thread has such long legs because of the fact that if a BBW had of made a similar post like Carl's (before Carl's) about a string of photos of skinny women there would have been no response like Carl has gotten.
> 
> I may not agree with Carl's disagreement on the photos, but when BHM stances which are similar to many stances made by BBWs are treated differently then there is a problem.
> 
> I do not think that there will be closure to this thread, but the issues that it has raised will be thought about and somewhat incorporated by people.
> 
> William--I have to get back to studying "Sensitivity Analysis" and NPV


 The reaction Carl got has had nothing to do with his size or what he has between his legs, and everything to do with the triviality and method of his complaint. You're both simply using the original issue to soapbox your personal gripes via a method that serves very well to make people stick their fingers in their ears and hum a happy little tune.


----------



## William

Hi Red Velvet 

I was only talking about threads where BBW have made comments similar to Carl's and much worse about skinny Actresses and Models. There was never any revolution about that. 

On this subject my viewpoint is focused on the status of BHM in Fat Acceptance as second class citizens, that does not make me narrow minded, just focused.

Goto Google and search on "Fat Acceptance" "skinny women" and see if there counter-points made like Carl has received. There are plenty of negative comments about skinny women made to use as reference.

William






RedVelvet said:


> oh my goodness...I guess you have never seen the many many epic threads where a woman might say something negative about feederism, or the paysite board or fantasy posted.......and been jumped on FIERCELY from all sides....and at the highest levels...
> 
> Guess you never saw any of those clusterfucks, eh?
> 
> I think your viewpoint is narrow indeed and relates mostly to what relates directly to you.
> 
> I think thats very....human.....but not exactly.......comprehensive.


----------



## Jack Skellington

LillyBBBW said:


> Oh come now. Carl has been stinking about that hot boy thread for weeks, first on the BHM board and now this. I saw him start this crusade on the BHM board quite some time ago and so did many others. This is not a case of poor little helpless Carl with hat in hand meekly inquiring only to be unfairly attacked. His was already an agenda from the word 'go', hence the title of this post. He got exactly what he was looking for: a clusterfcuk of "proof" that BHMs are the second class citizens of Size Acceptance. The only problem is he picked an issue that has nothing at all to do with size acceptance but to acknowledge this would spoil all the fun so lets just forget about that for a minute.



Awesome and spot on.


----------



## Jack Skellington

William said:


> On this subject my viewpoint is focused on the status of BHM in Fat Acceptance as second class citizens, that does not make me narrow minded, just focused.



Bull.

This has nothing to do with size acceptance. This is about Carl trying to control and shame the women here and play the victim while doing it.


----------



## wrestlingguy

JoyJoy said:


> You're both simply using the original issue to soapbox your personal gripes via a method that serves very well to make people stick their fingers in their ears and hum a happy little tune.



Again, I repeat, even if you don't like the messenger, or how he/she presents it, as a discussion forum one should at least consider the message based on its own merits.

I attempted to do that several pages ago in this thread, and was shot down by 2 people publicly, and one or two others privately, as they assumed that I was putting in my two cents in defending my friend. 

IMO, this thread should be merged with the "Feeling out of place at Dimensions" thread, just to remove it from the original gripe raised by Carl. Also, please note that the OP hasn't contributed anything other than a joke to this thread in the past two days, yet some still find it necessary to continue their barrage of negative comments, which also leads me to believe that a few are turning this into their own personal soapbox to air their personal gripes as well.

By the way, I need to note that I do not agree with the original post, I look at the hot boy thread often, just to see who many of the good ladies here find attractive, and I think everyone has a right to have a spectrum of what turns them on, regardless of who gets left out in the process.


----------



## LillyBBBW

William said:


> Hi Red Velvet
> 
> I was only talking about threads where BBW have made comments similar to Carl's and much worse about skinny Actresses and Models. There was never any revolution about that.
> 
> On this subject my viewpoint is focused on the status of BHM in Fat Acceptance as second class citizens, that does not make me narrow minded, just focused.
> 
> Goto Google and search on "Fat Acceptance" "skinny women" and see if there counter-points made like Carl has received. There are plenty of negative comments about skinny women made to use as reference.
> 
> William



William there are too many BHM's who feel as you do for there not to be some truth behind what you say. There is a larger issue going on here of which I think discussion would be beneficial. This attack against the women here who've done nothing wrong however is a hostile way to go about it. I don't wish to discount your feelings but holding up the hot boy thread is counter productive.


----------



## Surlysomething

Violet_Beauregard said:


> I'll work on that Tina.... I'll toss in some whining, moaning, groaning.... and perhaps some tears... just for the hell of it.... yes????


 

I think she was teasing.


----------



## mossystate

Ok...why is it there always seems to be those that need to come to a thread to tell others how they should process and participate...?!??

It does not matter if the OP has pretty much left the thread he started. People will decide when they have said all they need to say. When it is an issue that is brought up..over and over..you better believe some will need to have their say. That this is not done exactly how others like..ummm..so? Hell, I remember the 34 threads started about the VFW jackass, and I thought " give it a rest "...until I realized that even the peat and repeat of many posters was needed...for them. Everything that is typed out here has the personal all over it. 

As for this thread......I doubt most of us feel any ill will towards the fat men on this site...I know I don't...but...whoooooo doggies....don't say I am wrong for something that is not wrong.


----------



## PolarKat

olwen said:


> OMG William, so now i can't like *falafel *and *ham*?


*No!!!! it's HARAM!!!!!*


----------



## William

Hi Lilly 

I would be delighted if the Hot Boy thread continues forever because it is proof right here in Dimensions that Fat Men like Fat Women are at the bottom of the list of what Society finds attractive. 

I really do not feel that using the choices of people inside of Fat Acceptance is any different from using a news articles that include studies that return the same results and commenting on their choices is not hostile.

When I read statements from BBW about their experiences, I feel no need to re-write or amend what they wrote. I feel no need to write their history for them. That is the Fat Acceptance that BHM need to experience.

William (If I posted that last paragraph on BFB, all hell would break loose, believe me, I know)








LillyBBBW said:


> William there are too many BHM's who feel as you do for there not to be some truth behind what you say. There is a larger issue going on here of which I think discussion would be beneficial. This attack against the women here who've done nothing wrong however is a hostile way to go about it. I don't wish to discount your feelings but holding up the hot boy thread is counter productive.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

William said:


> Hi Lilly
> 
> I would be delighted if the Hot Boy thread continues forever because it is proof right here in Dimensions that Fat Men like Fat Women are at the bottom of the list of what Society finds attractive.
> 
> I really do not feel that using the choices of people inside of Fat Acceptance is any different from using a news articles that include studies that return the same results and commenting on their choices is not hostile.
> 
> When I read statements from BBW about their experiences, I feel no need to re-write or amend what they wrote. I feel no need to write their history for them. That is the Fat Acceptance that BHM need to experience.
> 
> William (If I posted that last paragraph on BFB, all hell would break loose, believe me, I know)



This thread is exasperating. What is wrong with people liking what they like? Why is it that some of the fat people here expect that fat people are the only kind of people that are supposed to be found attractive?

So what if some fat women find skinny men more attractive than fat men. There are just as man fat men that find skinny women more attractive than fat women. That's just life.


----------



## JoyJoy

wrestlingguy said:


> Again, I repeat, even if you don't like the messenger, or how he/she presents it, as a discussion forum one should at least consider the message based on its own merits.


 In an ideal world, sure, this is true, but if a person comes on in an incredibly whiny or even bullying or confrontational fashion, the message tends to get overshadowed and often lost....so, it really is all in the delivery, even on a discussion forum.


----------



## SocialbFly

Ella Bella said:


> This thread is exasperating. What is wrong with people liking what they like? Why is it that some of the fat people here expect that fat people are the only kind of people that are supposed to be found attractive?
> 
> So what if some fat women find skinny men more attractive than fat men. There are just as man fat men that find skinny women more attractive than fat women. That's just life.



sister...amen to that...why does it have to be looked at and scrutinized under a microscope,..you like what you like, i like what i like, sometimes it crosses over, sometimes it doesnt...arent we all entitled to like what we like? I love Goren on Criminal Intent...i posted pics of him fatter and thinner..he is hot regardless....isnt that the point?


----------



## William

Hi Ella

I have said several times that I am not bothered by their choices, but the trend that they have set is a slap in the face for most of what Fat Acceptance has ever said about the far greater acceptance of Fat Men compared to Fat Women. Also the sum of choices of the ladies here must be better than what we could expect from the general population.

Any search on Google would show you that the most frequent statement made by people in Fat Acceptance about Fat Men is about how much easier they have it in life.

William (Later, I have to study)




Ella Bella said:


> This thread is exasperating. What is wrong with people liking what they like? Why is it that some of the fat people here expect that fat people are the only kind of people that are supposed to be found attractive?
> 
> So what if some fat women find skinny men more attractive than fat men. There are just as man fat men that find skinny women more attractive than fat women. That's just life.


----------



## Renaissance Woman

William said:


> Hi Lilly
> 
> I would be delighted if the Hot Boy thread continues forever because it is proof right here in Dimensions that Fat Men like Fat Women are at the bottom of the list of what Society finds attractive.
> 
> I really do not feel that using the choices of people inside of Fat Acceptance is any different from using a news articles that include studies that return the same results and commenting on their choices is not hostile.
> 
> When I read statements from BBW about their experiences, I feel no need to re-write or amend what they wrote. I feel no need to write their history for them. That is the Fat Acceptance that BHM need to experience.
> 
> William (If I posted that last paragraph on BFB, all hell would break loose, believe me, I know)


You're right, William. I've finally seen the light. Because I fully consciously control exactly what I find sexually attractive in others, I will immediately start thinking fat guys are hot and finding skinny guys repulsive.

Your martyrdom and guilt tripping has shown me the way. Hallelujah!


----------



## Tina

And so was Vi, I think, Tina.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

William said:


> Hi Ella
> 
> I have said several times that I am not bothered by their choices, but the trend that they have set is a slap in the face for most of what Fat Acceptance has ever said about the far greater acceptance of Fat Men compared to Fat Women. Also the sum of choices of the ladies here must be better than what we could expect from the general population.
> 
> Any search on Google would show you that the most frequent statement made by people in Fat Acceptance about Fat Men is about how much easier they have it in life.
> 
> William (Later, I have to study)



I believe fat men have it easier than fat women. Its ok for men to be fat, old, have grey hair and all that stuff that comes along with this little thing we call life. Its not so ok for women, that's why the fat chick on the soap opera is getting wls, that's why we see so many commercials for anti wrinkle cream, anti age spot creams and those sorts of things. Its always women in those commercials. So are fat men generally more accepted by society than fat women? Yup. Acceptance isn't the same as attraction though. 

I accept that there are midgets (little people? I dont know what we're supposed to call them) I agree that they should be treated just like everyone else and have all the rights that every human being deserves. That doesn't mean that I find them attractive though.


----------



## CAMellie

I've always preferred the term...SIZE acceptance. I'm attracted to people of all sizes. This thread is just silly.


----------



## William

Hi Ella

I believe that Fat Men also have it easier than Fat Women, but by how much? Is the difference so great that that it is the most frequent statement made about Fat Men in Fat Acceptance? Far too many discussions in Fat Acceptance include nothing more about Fat Men other than they have it easier. 

I will disagree with you when you say that it is OK for men to be Fat, we even have the Hot Boy Thread here as proof that that is not true.

William




Ella Bella said:


> I believe fat men have it easier than fat women. Its ok for men to be fat, old, have grey hair and all that stuff that comes along with this little thing we call life. Its not so ok for women, that's why the fat chick on the soap opera is getting wls, that's why we see so many commercials for anti wrinkle cream, anti age spot creams and those sorts of things. Its always women in those commercials. So are fat men generally more accepted by society than fat women? Yup. Acceptance isn't the same as attraction though.
> 
> I accept that there are midgets (little people? I dont know what we're supposed to call them) I agree that they should be treated just like everyone else and have all the rights that every human being deserves. That doesn't mean that I find them attractive though.


----------



## Jack Skellington

Renaissance Woman said:


> Your martyrdom and guilt tripping has shown me the way. Hallelujah!





It sure does seem like a couple of the guys here just can't seem to grasp the concept that trying to shame women into finding them attractive isn't going to work. 

_Especially when it's their personality that's the really problem._


----------



## mossystate

Now preference is a.......trend.

huh?

William, you might be the only human being alive who is attracted to every woman on the planet. That's what I have decided to believe, after reading all this. If not...you gots some 'splainin to do.

I am not as highly evolved. I also don't recall seeing you ever bash male fat admirers for saying they are ' hard wired ' to like fat women.

And, I agree with Ella. Fat women have the added burden of being expected to never age..etc.. I am seeing..more and more..how the way I am viewed is changing. It is ...interesting.

I cannot force others to see me the way I would like to be seen. I can only change how I deal. I also cannot blame those who look past me, when they are in ' find a mate mode '. I will think them assholes, if they say I do not have the right to exist. See the difference?

When you create that perfect world...call.

*eta.....William....why are you posting pictures of thin...VERY thin...women in the hot girl thread...??????? If we all contribute to how fat people are seen in this society...how is getting back at fat women ( which is what you are doing )...the answer...?


----------



## PolarKat

Ella Bella said:


> I believe fat men have it easier than fat women. Its ok for men to be fat, old, have grey hair and all that stuff that comes along with this little thing we call life.


That a generalization.. so how would a 400+lb male have it easier?


----------



## Jack Skellington

William said:


> I believe that Fat Men also have it easier than Fat Women, but by how much?



Okay, my patience has been reached. No more of this kindler, gentler stuff, however limited that may be by my standards. The gloves are fucking off.

No way in hell do you as a man (BHM, thin, tall, short, old, ugly, whatever) have to put up with even a teeny tiny micro-fraction of the shit women (BBW or thin) have to and to be totally blunt you couldnt handle it. You would be curled in a fetal position and unable to leave your house.

Your constant whining, victimization, self absorption and overwhelming sense of entitlement only proves how god damn clueless you really are. I am in absolute awe that any man could be so damn dense. 

I'm done.


----------



## William

Hi Mossy

I have said nothing about Women having to find Fat Men attractive, but I have consistently said that people in Fat Acceptance while expressing their feelings that Fat Women have a harder time, do not need to reduce the Male Fat experience into the smallest packet possible.

Years from now it would be a shame that when people read about Fat Acceptance the entry on Fat Male includes nothing more than the fact that they experienced less Fat Bias.

As for the Hot Girl Thread it seems to now be the Dimensions PC thing to do and a artificial answer/compensation to the Hot Boy Thread. Both seem to run along what Society considers attractive for men and women and both should be used as examples of what Fat People face.

William




mossystate said:


> Now preference is a.......trend.
> 
> huh?
> 
> William, you might be the only human being alive who is attracted to every woman on the planet. That's what I have decided to believe, after reading all this. If not...you gots some 'splainin to do.
> 
> I am not as highly evolved. I also don't recall seeing you ever bash male fat admirers for saying they are ' hard wired ' to like fat women.
> 
> And, I agree with Ella. Fat women have the added burden of being expected to never age..etc.. I am seeing..more and more..how the way I am viewed is changing. It is ...interesting.
> 
> I cannot force others to see me the way I would like to be seen. I can only change how I deal. I also cannot blame those who look past me, when they are in ' find a mate mode '. I will think them assholes, if they say I do not have the right to exist. See the difference?
> 
> When you create that perfect world...call.
> 
> *eta.....William....why are you posting pictures of thin...VERY thin...women in the hot girl thread...??????? If we all contribute to how fat people are seen in this society...how is getting back at fat women ( which is what you are doing )...the answer...?


----------



## William

Even a average height 300 lb man has issues

William




PolarKat said:


> That a generalization.. so how would a 400+lb male have it easier?


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

William said:


> As for the Hot Girl Thread it seems to now be the Dimensions PC thing to do and a artificial reaction to the Hot Boy Thread. Both seem to run along what Society considers attractive for men and women
> 
> William



Hi William

Actually, it was not at all artificial. It was me genuinely attempting to put forth something that would get a response from people no matter what their orientation was. Regardless of whether or not they're attracted to BHM or BBW, since there are a lot of people here with different tastes. As in, a lot of the BHM, are not attracted to big women and vice versa. I thought that was evident. Goddamn, this is getting to be annoying as hell.

BothGunsBlazing (because this isn't irritating)


----------



## William

Hi BGB

You are right and I remember that you made some great comments that showed empathy for all. Maybe I should have said that it did not have the originality of the Hot Boy Thread because it was started later.

William 





BothGunsBlazing said:


> Hi William
> 
> Actually, it was not at all artificial. It was me genuinely attempting to put forth something that would get a response from people no matter what their orientation was. Regardless of whether or not they're attracted to BHM or BBW, since there are a lot of people here with different tastes. As in, a lot of the BHM, are not attracted to big women and vice versa. I thought that was evident. Goddamn, this is getting to be annoying as hell.
> 
> BothGunsBlazing (because this isn't irritating)


----------



## Miss Vickie

Jack Skellington said:


> If you guys cant cope with a few pics of Johnny Depp and Christian Bale there is no way in HELL you could endure the shit BBWs (or thin women) have to endure in our culture. So the wailfull cries of how bad you guys have it here at Dims doesnt wash with me.
> 
> One last thing to keep in mind.
> 
> Women are generally nicer and less superficial than men so if you think you are getting ignored at Dims or at size acceptance social gatherings its more than likely your personality turning them off and not your appearance.
> 
> _Note to rest of the BHM here: I'm glad there is a BHM forum. I'm glad you guys are here and participate. BHM are kewl. I only dislike martyrs and misogynists. _



He gets it! He TOTALLY gets it! Jack, you're a credit to your gender, as well as race, species, and whatever other category I can label you with. :smitten:



William said:


> I know that the Hot Boy Thread is merely a eye candy thread exploiting those male celebrities, but much has been written about how Fat People are under represented in the entertainment industry and even in the modeling of Fat Clothes so photos do matter.
> 
> William



I dunno, William. I think I saw pictures of fat guys in that thread, too. And yes, you're right. Fat people ARE under represented in entertainment. But that's hardly our fault, is it? Should I blame the good people of Dimensions for the fact that I had a hard time getting acting roles when I was a fat teenage girl?



Violet_Beauregard said:


> Let's see if we can figure this out:
> 
> 
> Ladies - if you like fat guys, post their pics in the Hot Boy Thread
> 
> Ladies - if you like skinny guys, post their pics in the Hot Boy Thread
> 
> OR
> 
> Guys - if you like fat girls, post their pics in the Hot Girl Thread
> 
> Guys - if you like skinny girls, post their pics in the Hot Girl Thread
> 
> 
> Them's the rules.
> Simple enough.
> Not rocket science.
> 
> 
> Raise your hand if you understand. Okay I'll start.... *raises hand*



*raises hand*

Seems like a no brainer to me. 



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> So....a woman...a FAT woman turned you down....does this mean that a skinny one never has?
> 
> And if a skinny one has...why does this thread read like it's only us fat women that "OWE" you fat boys something?
> 
> You know....news flash.....not all fat boys find me attractive. Should I be angry and go down to the BHM board and whine about it? Does it give me some special rights to gripe specifically about fat boys?
> 
> I mean does fat on my body mean that fat on yours HAS to look good to me? and vice versa? If you dig fat chicks, then dig them. However, there isn't a woman on this planet that owes you a fuck or a compliment.....nor does any man owe me one.
> 
> Feel "equal" now?



Well said, GEF. It almost feels to me like some of these guys are saying that they're doing us some sort of fucking favor by being attracted to us and we owe them mutual attraction. Doesn't it seem like that to you? Why should fat women be obligated to be attracted to fat men? And even if we are, what the hell does that have to do with size acceptance?

I dig me both some John Goodman AND Paul Bettany. Some Paul Giamotti and some Liam Neeson. Some Colin Firth and Samuel L Jackson. Not because of their size, obviously, because they're men of all sizes and shapes, heights and races. But because there is something about them that I find attractive, and I don't think I'm so unusual in that.

And Santaclear, be careful with that tater loving stuff. Otherwise the zucchini's in the crowd'll feel awfully left out.


----------



## wrestlingguy

mossystate said:


> Ok...why is it there always seems to be those that need to come to a thread to tell others how they should process and participate...?!??
> 
> It does not matter if the OP has pretty much left the thread he started. People will decide when they have said all they need to say. When it is an issue that is brought up..over and over..you better believe some will need to have their say. That this is not done exactly how others like..ummm..so? Hell, I remember the 34 threads started about the VFW jackass, and I thought " give it a rest "...until I realized that even the peat and repeat of many posters was needed...for them. Everything that is typed out here has the personal all over it.
> 
> As for this thread......I doubt most of us feel any ill will towards the fat men on this site...I know I don't...but...whoooooo doggies....don't say I am wrong for something that is not wrong.



Mossy, I never told anyone here how to participate. Sorry you see it that way. I, just like anyone else here, stated what I drew from this thread, which was, that beating a dead horse must mean you (not YOU personally) don't like dead horses.

Also, with regard to the VFW thing that went on forever and ever, I presented a very workable solution early on that was ignored by almost every subsequent poster, which I think may be due to the fact that the message was coming from someone they didn't like, and therefore never took the time to read it, thus supporting my contention that we here (again, not YOU, Mossy) look only at the messenger & judge, rather than make judgements on the merits of what they have said.

So as to not beat the dead horse from my side any longer, I present those who still don't understand my point (not those who see it and disagree) with some mathematical equations:


*Equation #1: Original Post + Disagreement responses = Dialogue

Equation #2: Original Post + Disagreement responses - OP leaving
+ Additional Flood of Disagreement responses = beating a dead horse*


----------



## wrestlingguy

JoyJoy said:


> In an ideal world, sure, this is true, but if a person comes on in an incredibly whiny or even bullying or confrontational fashion, the message tends to get overshadowed and often lost....so, it really is all in the delivery, even on a discussion forum.


Very much agreed, and repped!


----------



## PolarKat

I was just taking a larger  example


William said:


> Even a average height 300 lb man has issues
> 
> William


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

Yes, I was....  



Tina said:


> And so was Vi, I think, Tina.


----------



## olwen

William said:


> Hi Ella
> 
> I have said several times that I am not bothered by their choices, but the trend that they have set is a slap in the face for most of what Fat Acceptance has ever said about the far greater acceptance of Fat Men compared to Fat Women. Also the sum of choices of the ladies here must be better than what we could expect from the general population.
> 
> Any search on Google would show you that the most frequent statement made by people in Fat Acceptance about Fat Men is about how much easier they have it in life.
> 
> William (Later, I have to study)



William, I get what you are saying. I do, and so do many of the bbws here. We acknowledge that you as a bhm go thru crap. As fat people we all go thru crap. For you to say that we as women have it easier is just not true. It isn't true for the simple fact that if you take away all our collective fat women will still have to deal with stuff that men don't.

Men don't have to:

1. Deal with GYN's or OBs. As a fat woman this can be a very humiliating experience. The biases that doctors bring into the examination room about women _and _about fat people are ridiculous. Those biases in this area of medicine are thankfully something you don't have to deal with. 

We've got to disrobe in front of a person we don't know who's going to stick their hands in our private parts and say things about our reproductive capabilities that are often false and/or biased and then look confused when we ask about birth control methods or natural birthing methods among other things. I've been asked by more than one doctor "Why do you need birth control?" Have you? 

2. People will not see you as a piece of meat or assume your only value to society is you ability to make babies. You will not have to deal with someone who only sees you as a sexual object and nothing more. Believe it or not, that is not fun. Bbws are more than wank fodder or some guy's idea of an easy lay. Surely there are women who have come here or to other sites and gone to dances and been delighted by the fact that men think we are sexy, but then after a while may start to feel uncomfortable because of that focus, which is heavily directed at women. I can't control that. No bbw can control that. Men have to be able to police themselves in that regard. You don't have to deal with that. Why would you want to? It's easier to not have to think about that. 

3. The media. Since you've brought that up again and again, then let's break it down. I challenge you to watch two hours of tv with commercials and count the number of ads directed at women and the ones directed at men. Then break it down by product and quality. What do advertisers assume about women and what do they assume about men? Seriously, sit down with a pad and a stop watch and do this bit of research. Take fat out of it if you can - it will be hard tho since so many ads directed at women involve the assumption that all women want to be forever young, fit, conventionally attractive, and thin. 

4. Ageism. Again, lets look at the media. How many older men do you see in the media who get to be wrinkled and gray and still be respected and considered handsome and still valuable members of society, then look at the quality of the work they get. How many older women get to be wrinkled and gray and still be seen as beautiful valuable members of society? Fat or not.

This is just a sample of some of the things that men don't have to deal with that women do. Things that make it easier for men to get by in the world than women. Go to another country - one where women are not educated, allowed to have legal representation, or any rights, or who are marginalized because they are women and nothing more. (Yes, this still happens - honor killings, unfair divorce laws anyone?) This doesn't have anything to do with fat. This has to do with gender. So your gripe about fat men not having it easier than fat women is just unfounded. There are a lot of similar abuses we have all been thru. I acknowledge that. But you need to acknowledge that there are abuses you will never experience for the simple fact that you don't have a uterus. I'm not saying that what women experience is worse by default either. It's not a contest. I'm only saying there are things you will never have to deal with and those things have fuck all to do with size acceptance. Why would you want to? But when you add those things to what fat women have to deal with and compare them to what fat men have to deal with who gets the short end of the stick?

Yes your concerns are legit and deserve to be heard, but I'm telling you from the perspective of a bbw that you ought to be grateful for the fact that you don't have to deal with this biased gender stuff. If you can't see that or refuse to see that then you will never get over the issues you have or learn or grow from them or gain perspective and there's nothing any of us can say to you.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

PolarKat said:


> That a generalization.. so how would a 400+lb male have it easier?



Olwen summed it up pretty good in post 346.

Men in general (yup another generalization!) have it easier in life than women do. Its just the way the world goes round right now.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

OMG... William... jesus..... :doh:

Would anyone care to vote on closing this thread?? He's not going to get it. Donna was right: willfully obtuse. 

Seriously... this is just going to continue back and forth and really is not going to ever get anywhere. 

I vote the thread be closed and we can ALL move on.

Who's with me?? 

*raising hand*


----------



## PolarKat

olwen said:


> William, I get what you are saying. I do, and so do many of the bbws here. We acknowledge that you as a bhm go thru crap. As fat people we all go thru crap. For you to say that we as women have it easier is just not true. It isn't true for the simple fact that if you take away all our collective fat women will still have to deal with stuff that men don't.


Olwen, the point is that we're not stripped of our fat which changes the whole equation.. You can't define an easier, because to each person that will vary. If you define a set of points and then they're weighed I guarentee that the results you'll get won't fall specifically to gender, but enatangle the person's height, weight, race, gender, social class, social life etc.. To cast a broad net and say one has it easier than the other simply diminshes a whole groups individual experieces...

and while i'm writing this ella responded using your points as a rebuttle to my question so I leave it to you to go back and look at your points from a 400lb male perspective, which is me, and see how/if your points change at all..


----------



## olwen

PolarKat said:


> Olwen, the point is that we're not stripped of our fat which changes the whole equation.. You can't define an easier, because to each person that will vary. If you define a set of points and then they're weighed I guarentee that the results you'll get won't fall specifically to gender, but enatangle the person's height, weight, race, gender, social class, social life etc.. To cast a broad net and say one has it easier than the other simply diminshes a whole groups individual experieces...
> 
> and while i'm writing this ella responded using your points as a rebuttle to my question so I leave it to you to go back and look at your points from a 400lb male perspective, which is me, and see how/if your points change at all..



If you can't define an easier then why worry about this gender difference at all? Why internalize it so heavily?

Of course the results will vary, but the fact remains you don't have a uterus. Put your reading glasses on and read my post again.


----------



## stan_der_man

wrestlingguy said:


> *Equation #1: Original Post + Disagreement responses = Dialogue
> 
> Equation #2: Original Post + Disagreement responses - OP leaving
> + Additional Flood of Disagreement responses = beating a dead horse*



Excellent point Mr. Wrestlingguy! If only our computers had olfactory cards, more folks would be able to smell the stench of this dead horse... My repper is kaput at the moment (actually I think I just gave you some reps not to long ago...) if somebody could cover me here on this...?


BTW... If you would be so kind as to write up this equation of yours up into a theorem, I'll float it by the math professors here... We may be looking at nobel prize material here!


----------



## William

Hi Olwen

I hope that I have not accidently said that I thought Fat Women have it easier, at the most I think that the negative experiences that BHM have faced is far more than what Fat Acceptance will acknowledge. Also articles and statements that only mention that Fat Men have it easier, do not add anything positive for Fat Men to be attracted to Fat Acceptance.

I hope that you do not think that Fat Men feel free to skip around their Doctors examining rooms half naked, that is not true for me. 

I do not know why the question of the experiences of BBWs and BHMs has to be a competition? All that I am saying is that the experiences of Fat Men is more than a footnote stating that we have things easier.

The Gender issues that you talk of apply to men and women of all sizes and should not negate the experiences of Fat Men. As a Fat Man there has been times when I have taken a EKG (in my shorts) in a room with the door half way open be cause the female technician did not feel comfortable being in the room with a man and a closed door. 

Nothing is as black & White as the description that Fat Acceptance has of the differences of experiences of Fat Men and Women. Maybe once there is more input from Fat Men the this story could be told, as is one side is silent (stifled).

William 






olwen said:


> William, I get what you are saying. I do, and so do many of the bbws here. We acknowledge that you as a bhm go thru crap. As fat people we all go thru crap. For you to say that we as women have it easier is just not true. It isn't true for the simple fact that if you take away all our collective fat women will still have to deal with stuff that men don't.
> 
> Men don't have to:
> 
> 1. Deal with GYN's or OBs. As a fat woman this can be a very humiliating experience. The biases that doctors bring into the examination room about women _and _about fat people are ridiculous. Those biases in this area of medicine are thankfully something you don't have to deal with.
> 
> We've got to disrobe in front of a person we don't know who's going to stick their hands in our private parts and say things about our reproductive capabilities that are often false and/or biased and then look confused when we ask about birth control methods or natural birthing methods among other things. I've been asked by more than one doctor "Why do you need birth control?" Have you?
> 
> 2. People will not see you as a piece of meat or assume your only value to society is you ability to make babies. You will not have to deal with someone who only sees you as a sexual object and nothing more. Believe it or not, that is not fun. Bbws are more than wank fodder or some guy's idea of an easy lay. Surely there are women who have come here or to other sites and gone to dances and been delighted by the fact that men think we are sexy, but then after a while may start to feel uncomfortable because of that focus, which is heavily directed at women. I can't control that. No bbw can control that. Men have to be able to police themselves in that regard. You don't have to deal with that. Why would you want to? It's easier to not have to think about that.
> 
> 3. The media. Since you've brought that up again and again, then let's break it down. I challenge you to watch two hours of tv with commercials and count the number of ads directed at women and the ones directed at men. Then break it down by product and quality. What do advertisers assume about women and what do they assume about men? Seriously, sit down with a pad and a stop watch and do this bit of research. Take fat out of it if you can - it will be hard tho since so many ads directed at women involve the assumption that all women want to be forever young, fit, conventionally attractive, and thin.
> 
> 4. Ageism. Again, lets look at the media. How many older men do you see in the media who get to be wrinkled and gray and still be respected and considered handsome and still valuable members of society, then look at the quality of the work they get. How many older women get to be wrinkled and gray and still be seen as beautiful valuable members of society? Fat or not.
> 
> This is just a sample of some of the things that men don't have to deal with that women do. Things that make it easier for men to get by in the world than women. Go to another country - one where women are not educated, allowed to have legal representation, or any rights, or who are marginalized because they are women and nothing more. (Yes, this still happens - honor killings, unfair divorce laws anyone?) This doesn't have anything to do with fat. This has to do with gender. So your gripe about fat men not having it easier than fat women is just unfounded. There are a lot of similar abuses we have all been thru. I acknowledge that. But you need to acknowledge that there are abuses you will never experience for the simple fact that you don't have a uterus. I'm not saying that what women experience is worse by default either. It's not a contest. I'm only saying there are things you will never have to deal with and those things have fuck all to do with size acceptance. Why would you want to? But when you add those things to what fat women have to deal with and compare them to what fat men have to deal with who gets the short end of the stick?
> 
> Yes your concerns are legit and deserve to be heard, but I'm telling you from the perspective of a bbw that you ought to be grateful for the fact that you don't have to deal with this biased gender stuff. If you can't see that or refuse to see that then you will never get over the issues you have or learn or grow from them or gain perspective and there's nothing any of us can say to you.


----------



## mossystate

I have wanted to vote for the closing of whining threads, started by whiners who just don't get it ( meaning, the world at their front doorstep )...but...nah.

Lots of dead horses have littered Dims. What's one more to the pile. Might need more glue.


----------



## PolarKat

olwen said:


> If you can't define an easier then why worry about this gender difference at all? Why internalize it so heavily?
> 
> Of course the results will vary, but the fact remains you don't have a uterus. Put your reading glasses on and read my post again.



I'm not arguing with you, I'm just asking if you can account for my life experience, before you pass judgement.. Do you* always judge groups of people based on some characteristic or do agree that each has thier own (his)story and can't be blanketed into 1 judgement?

[EDIT note] Somthing might have come across hostile, You isn't direct you as insult, just used as a setup for the question..


----------



## Tina

William said:


> I have said several times that I am not bothered by their choices, but the trend that they have set is a slap in the face for most of what Fat Acceptance has ever said about the far greater acceptance of Fat Men compared to Fat Women. Also the sum of choices of the ladies here must be better than what we could expect from the general population.


I disagree. It's one thing to support fat men and women without necessarily being sexually attracted to them. Dims is at least partly about support. Yes, the sexualization of fat women on this site is at the forefront, simply because of the nature of what the site is and how it was formed. That may be something you'll just have to get used to. The BHM board was not always around, because the sig and then magazine and then site was formed for FAs to share their FA-hood, and then women came around and were welcomed. Then BHM arrived on the scene and space was made. In the rest of the world, fat men still seem to have fewer hassles than fat women, but it's still not a great life, as fat prejudice cuts across gender and I'd never deny that.


> Any search on Google would show you that the most frequent statement made by people in Fat Acceptance about Fat Men is about how much easier they have it in life.


In many ways they do. Size in a man is often seen as power, but not in a woman. When it comes to hiring, a fat man will often be chosen over a fat woman. Details Magazine came out with an issue some years ago with James Gandolfini on the cover, talking about bigger guys being sexy. You show me a mainstream woman's magazine that has done the same.

Fact is, people who are uncomfortable with their own fat often do not want fat partners. I mean this in general and am not slinging this at anyone here who prefers thin partners, but just in general. When it comes to women, most women seem to want a guy who will make them feel petite, and that is often the allure for thinner women who like big guys. Taking it from that realm into female FAs can give a whole other set of reasons, but again, just talking in generalities.

Recognizing inequities is one thing, wearing a Victim label like a badge of honor is another.


----------



## stan_der_man

mossystate said:


> I have wanted to vote for the closing of whining threads, started by whiners who just don't get it ( meaning, the world at their front doorstep )...but...nah.
> 
> Lots of dead horses have littered Dims. What's one more to the pile. Might need more glue.



You may be onto something here Mossy...


Perhaps dead horses are the glue that binds Dimensions together!  I also wanted to send a repidy-doo-dah your direction, but I only seem to be able to do one or two per day now ever since we got this new server thing.

Hey, I'm over 40... I suppose that's pretty good.


----------



## CAMellie

You know what this thread needs?



View attachment 44082



*teehee*


----------



## Fascinita

After this thread is over, are we all going back to liking what we like? Right? We are. Right?

Oh, and William, since you seem truly miffed that fat women are so much better off than fat men, let me invite you to come along on a magical journey through time with the *Ghosts of Female Past, Present and Future*... A journey through a world where you used to be beaten with a rod, but no thicker than your husband's thumb! A journey through a world in which you still make 70 cents for every dollar a man makes! A journey through a world in which so many people are so threatened by the relative gains you've made as a member of the "weaker" (cue *rolleyes* here) gender, that they throw all of their energies into reining you in, body and soul, ensuring that whatever future you think you're entitled to is not the future you, in fact, get--you are a woman, after all, put on this earth to slave away in disenfranchised silence at making and raising babies, a reproductive machine from which every last drop of labor must be wrung. How dare you think you're entitled to like what you like, and want what you want?

I've posted some new pics to the Hot Boy Thread.


----------



## Tina

Fascinita, you mean those things ain't good?


----------



## stan_der_man

Fascinita said:


> After this thread is over, are we all going back to liking what we like? Right? We are. Right?
> 
> Oh, and William, since you seem truly miffed that fat women are so much better off than fat men, let me invite you to come along on a magical journey through time with the *Ghosts of Female Past, Present and Future*... A journey through a world where you used to be beaten with a rod, but no thicker than your husband's thumb! A journey through a world in which you still make 70 cents for every dollar a man makes! A journey through a world in which so many people are so threatened by the relative gains you've made as a member of the "weaker" (cue *rolleyes* here) gender, that they throw all of their energies into reining you in, body and soul, ensuring that whatever future you think you're entitled to is not the future you, in fact, get--you are a woman, after all, put on this earth to slave away in disenfranchised silence at making and raising babies, a reproductive machine from which every last drop of labor must be wrung. How dare you think you're entitled to like what you like, and want what you want?
> 
> I've posted some new pics to the Hot Boy Thread.



BTW... I got a really cool walrus sound waiting in the wings just in case this thread drags on for a couple more pages...


----------



## wrestlingguy

Fascinita said:


> I've posted some new pics to the Hot Boy Thread.



I'm really pissed that there aren't any old men on the Hot Boy Thread.


----------



## stan_der_man

CAMellie said:


> You know what this thread needs?
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 44082
> 
> 
> 
> *teehee*



... and the beat goes on! :bow:


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

LOLOLOLOLOLOL 

I'm laughing so loud my nephew stopped his video game to ask me what my problem is..... 


LOLOLOLOL 

Priceless......




fa_man_stan said:


> BTW... I got a really cool walrus sound waiting in the wings just in case this thread drags on for a couple more pages...





wrestlingguy said:


> I'm really pissed that there aren't any old men on the Hot Boy Thread.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

I took care of that for you Phil.... I didn't want you to feel discriminated against....  




wrestlingguy said:


> I'm really pissed that there aren't any old men on the Hot Boy Thread.


----------



## Shosh

wrestlingguy said:


> I'm really pissed that there aren't any old men on the Hot Boy Thread.



Hey Phil there are many sexy older men. I think Clint Eastwood looks so wonderful, and he is in his seventies. He is still yummy.


----------



## RedVelvet

William said:


> *I will disagree with you when you say that it is OK for men to be Fat, we even have the Hot Boy Thread here as proof that that is not true.
> *
> William



What ARE you saying? 

Seriously William...Are any of the woman posting in that thread saying that fat men are bad? Not accepted? ARE THEY?

ARE THEY?

No. They are saying that the range of men in that thread are cute to them.

If many of those men are thin..it does not mean fat men are bad....unaccepted, unwanted...any of it. 

No matter how many times you say it William...still not true.

Saying that Strawberry Ice Cream ROCKS isnt ALSO saying "ALL OTHER ICE CREAM SUCKS"


So what you are saying is that if someone doesn't find you hot..they dont accept you as a human being. 
*
What you are saying is that to be "OK" in your eyes...one must be sexually attractive...I'm sorry...you can spin it any way you like...but that IS what you are saying here.*


Good luck with that...


----------



## mossystate

In the Hot Girls Thread....I want to see...

...pictures of fat women over the age of 45...spider veins on legs.. lines on face...grey in hair...various scars on many parcels of land........maybe squinting for the camera, because she might not know what you are holding in your hand and you don't want to be slapped....you know...worthwhile women who are not botoxed and/or actually....gasp.....age.....

...hmmmmm...NOW....snap to...!!


----------



## RedVelvet

wrestlingguy said:


> I'm really pissed that there aren't any old men on the Hot Boy Thread.




I'm gonna go post a picture of Scott Glenn then...and Gabriel Byrne.....cuz They're HOT.

(and not young...)

Oh......And Bald, and short..........Ed Harris... (HOT)


And Fat....James Gandolfini...... (Yeah..Hot..)






By the way....Everyone gets to end the thread naturally,love...it can go through as many incarnations as it likes...saying it needs to end ...no work...and smacks of a strange need to control a situation one could just walk away from, rather than enter to merely scold....ahem..


----------



## Fascinita

wrestlingguy said:


> I'm really pissed that there aren't any old men on the Hot Boy Thread.



Oh, but there are. I've posted some geezers in the past. And I've just finished posting some old hotties over there, for everyone's delectation. 

Go check it out, Daddy.


----------



## wrestlingguy

mossystate said:


> In the Hot Girls Thread....I want to see...
> 
> ...pictures of fat women over the age of 45...spider veins on legs.. lines on face...grey in hair...various scars on many parcels of land........maybe squinting for the camera, because she might not know what you are holding in your hand and you don't want to be slapped....you know...worthwhile women who are not botoxed and/or actually....gasp.....age.....
> 
> ...hmmmmm...NOW....snap to...!!








Will this do?


----------



## mossystate

Eh.....I am not going to laugh at a picture of an old woman who probably would not want to be laughed at......was actually making a wee point, using my own body/self as a reference and making it ' light ', about the realities of how aging men and women tend to be viewed, as a whole, differently in this society............nevermind


----------



## Fascinita

Tina said:


> Fascinita, you mean those things ain't good?



Yes, Tina! Gasp. Can you believe the nerve of me? Pshaw. What's a little ole beating with a rod, anyway?


----------



## RedVelvet

mossystate said:


> Eh.....I am not going to laugh at a picture of an old woman who probably would not want to be laughed at......was actually making a wee point, using my own body/self as a reference and making it ' light ', about the realities of how aging men and women tend to be viewed, as a whole, differently in this society............nevermind




Wow....thats an amazing face. I love it. What life there is on it. 

I would never laugh at it.


Sigh.....well Mossy....I got it!


----------



## wrestlingguy

mossystate said:


> Eh.....I am not going to laugh at a picture of an old woman who probably would not want to be laughed at......was actually making a wee point, using my own body/self as a reference and making it ' light ', about the realities of how aging men and women tend to be viewed, as a whole, differently in this society............nevermind







Sorry, I've run out of mathematical equations.


----------



## Fascinita

That woman is very cute, though not necessarily hot, Phil. Don't you find old women hot? Isn't there even one you find attractive? If you don't, that's fine. But there's no need to make fun of them.

Oh, and men of Dimensions? It may seem unthinkable to you, but some women have studied calculus--both differential AND integral!-- linear algebra, numerical analysis, etc., etc., etc. Oh, my! So don't think you're "proving" (I made a math pun, see?!) anything by associating yourselves in name with math and logic. Some of us could differentiate you under the table, you rascals.


----------



## wrestlingguy

Fascinita said:


> That woman is very cute, though not hot, Phil. Don't you find old women hot? If you don't, that's fine. But there's no need to make fun of them.



True, but you gotta admit the dead horse is hot in a way.


----------



## mossystate

wrestlingguy said:


> Sorry, I've run out of mathematical equations.



LOL

If only some of us would always follow your lead. So, just tell me exactly what I should do..ok? I am not the giggly sort, so you will have to allow me a bit of dignity...k?

I am not as bright as you..but....by golly....I can give it a try!

a...mazing....LOL


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

Stan??? I think you better cue up that walrus clip... I think we're going to be here a while..... :doh:

LOL


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

I kinda thought so.

In a beaten dead horse kind of way. 




J/K






wrestlingguy said:


> True, but you gotta admit the dead horse is hot in a way.


----------



## wrestlingguy

mossystate said:


> LOL
> 
> If only some of us would always follow your lead. So, just tell me exactly what I should do..ok? I am not the giggly sort, so you will have to allow me a bit of dignity...k?
> 
> I am not as bright as you..but....by golly....I can give it a try!
> 
> a...mazing....LOL


You've reached the first plateau.


----------



## mossystate

Violet_Beauregard said:


> Stan??? I think you better cue up that walrus clip... I think we're going to be here a while..... :doh:
> 
> LOL



There is a door...well, I imagine a door to each of these threads out here...some are painted all pretty...some are simple wood....but.....they all have two features...they can be opened ..or...closed....yes?




I guess I do not understand the scolding from some, when they themselves are getting their kicks....as am I.


----------



## Fascinita

wrestlingguy said:


> True, but you gotta admit the dead horse is hot in a way.



Well, whatever floats your boat, daddy. 

Hang on a sec, I gotta take this call from the Shady Shoals Nursing Home.


----------



## Tina

Fascinita said:


> Yes, Tina! Gasp. Can you believe the nerve of me? Pshaw. What's a little ole beating with a rod, anyway?


Depends upon whose rod it is, honey.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

My call to Stan for his walrus clip, was a joke, to which he had reference a few pages back.

My "scoldings" have fallen on deaf ears. If you can't beat them, join them.

I'm walking out the door to this thread. 

Thanks everyone, for the entertainment! 




mossystate said:


> There is a door...well, I imagine a door to each of these threads out here...some are painted all pretty...some are simple wood....but.....they all have two features...they can be opened ..or...closed....yes?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess I do not understand the scolding from some, when they themselves are getting their kicks....as am I.


----------



## mossystate

Violet_Beauregard said:


> My call to Stan for his walrus clip, was a joke, to which he had reference a few pages back.
> 
> My "scoldings" have fallen on deaf ears. If you can't beat them, join them.
> 
> I'm walking out the door to this thread.
> 
> Thanks everyone, for the entertainment!





Bye!.......


----------



## Fascinita

Tina said:


> Depends upon whose rod it is, honey.



So true. It's all in how you see it. So right, Tina.

And, looking at it from that perspective, it had _better_ be thicker than his thumb. Know what I mean? :happy:

Ooooh. I'm getting all tingly.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

RedVelvet said:


> Oh my gawd...this is a side of you I have not seen before...I AM NOW COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY IN LOVE WITH YOU.



And I haven't even brought out my whips and chains yet....these boys don't deserve all THAT wholesome goodness....  



mossystate said:


> Now preference is a.......trend.
> 
> huh?
> 
> *William, you might be the only human being alive who is attracted to every woman on the planet. That's what I have decided to believe, after reading all this. If not...you gots some 'splainin to do.*
> 
> I am not as highly evolved. I also don't recall seeing you ever bash male fat admirers for saying they are ' hard wired ' to like fat women.
> 
> 
> *eta.....William....why are you posting pictures of thin...VERY thin...women in the hot girl thread...??????? If we all contribute to how fat people are seen in this society...how is getting back at fat women ( which is what you are doing )...the answer...?



Silly goose....I said it earlier in this thread....if a man does it or wants it...then it's OKAY....jeez, you fat wimminz are dense....:doh:



Jack Skellington said:


> Your constant whining, victimization, self absorption and overwhelming sense of entitlement only proves how god damn clueless you really are. I am in absolute awe that any man could be so damn dense.
> 
> I'm done.



You know.....I have been thinking....William has always been obtuse. Remember when he was on the main board about his "fat activism"? Making threads about how he yelled things out in the middle of church service and a lot of people said that he went too far to be so pushy. 
I think William hasn't recovered from that....and THAT is what this is all about. He's angry that he came here to boast about himself and no one seemed impressed. 
He kept on the same track in that thread....and he's doing it here, too. He's convinced himself that he is "right" and that anyone who disagrees is just being a big meanie and cannot possibly be correct in anything they say. 



Miss Vickie said:


> Well said, GEF. It almost feels to me like some of these guys are saying that they're doing us some sort of fucking favor by being attracted to us and we owe them mutual attraction. Doesn't it seem like that to you? Why should fat women be obligated to be attracted to fat men? And even if we are, what the hell does that have to do with size acceptance?



Yeppers...we OWE something has been the jist of this thread. They are angry about some other event....let it fester instead of moving on/getting over it and then cooked up this load of malarkey. 



olwen said:


> William, I get what you are saying. I do, and so do many of the bbws here. We acknowledge that you as a bhm go thru crap. As fat people we all go thru crap. For you to say that we as women have it easier is just not true. It isn't true for the simple fact that if you take away all our collective fat women will still have to deal with stuff that men don't.
> 
> Men don't have to:
> 
> 1. Deal with GYN's or OBs. As a fat woman this can be a very humiliating experience. The biases that doctors bring into the examination room about women _and _about fat people are ridiculous. Those biases in this area of medicine are thankfully something you don't have to deal with.
> 
> We've got to disrobe in front of a person we don't know who's going to stick their hands in our private parts and say things about our reproductive capabilities that are often false and/or biased and then look confused when we ask about birth control methods or natural birthing methods among other things. I've been asked by more than one doctor "Why do you need birth control?" Have you?
> 
> 2. People will not see you as a piece of meat or assume your only value to society is you ability to make babies. You will not have to deal with someone who only sees you as a sexual object and nothing more. Believe it or not, that is not fun. Bbws are more than wank fodder or some guy's idea of an easy lay. Surely there are women who have come here or to other sites and gone to dances and been delighted by the fact that men think we are sexy, but then after a while may start to feel uncomfortable because of that focus, which is heavily directed at women. I can't control that. No bbw can control that. Men have to be able to police themselves in that regard. You don't have to deal with that. Why would you want to? It's easier to not have to think about that.
> 
> 3. The media. Since you've brought that up again and again, then let's break it down. I challenge you to watch two hours of tv with commercials and count the number of ads directed at women and the ones directed at men. Then break it down by product and quality. What do advertisers assume about women and what do they assume about men? Seriously, sit down with a pad and a stop watch and do this bit of research. Take fat out of it if you can - it will be hard tho since so many ads directed at women involve the assumption that all women want to be forever young, fit, conventionally attractive, and thin.
> 
> 4. Ageism. Again, lets look at the media. How many older men do you see in the media who get to be wrinkled and gray and still be respected and considered handsome and still valuable members of society, then look at the quality of the work they get. How many older women get to be wrinkled and gray and still be seen as beautiful valuable members of society? Fat or not.
> 
> This is just a sample of some of the things that men don't have to deal with that women do. Things that make it easier for men to get by in the world than women. Go to another country - one where women are not educated, allowed to have legal representation, or any rights, or who are marginalized because they are women and nothing more. (Yes, this still happens - honor killings, unfair divorce laws anyone?) This doesn't have anything to do with fat. This has to do with gender. So your gripe about fat men not having it easier than fat women is just unfounded. There are a lot of similar abuses we have all been thru. I acknowledge that. But you need to acknowledge that there are abuses you will never experience for the simple fact that you don't have a uterus. I'm not saying that what women experience is worse by default either. It's not a contest. I'm only saying there are things you will never have to deal with and those things have fuck all to do with size acceptance. Why would you want to? But when you add those things to what fat women have to deal with and compare them to what fat men have to deal with who gets the short end of the stick?
> 
> Yes your concerns are legit and deserve to be heard, but I'm telling you from the perspective of a bbw that you ought to be grateful for the fact that you don't have to deal with this biased gender stuff. If you can't see that or refuse to see that then you will never get over the issues you have or learn or grow from them or gain perspective and there's nothing any of us can say to you.



This isn't William's problem......he just knows that he loves himself some fat wimminz, or at least says he does even if he never posts any as his ideal of attractive in the hot girl thread, and since he does us this HUGE favor, we should all just stfu and let him have his gripefest. 
Jeez, Olwen.....don't you GET IT? FAT MEN HAVE IT HARD....HARDER THAN WOMEN....THEY ARE OUR VICTIMS EVEN!!!! :doh:



Violet_Beauregard said:


> OMG... William... jesus..... :doh:
> 
> Would anyone care to vote on closing this thread?? He's not going to get it. Donna was right: willfully obtuse.
> 
> Seriously... this is just going to continue back and forth and really is not going to ever get anywhere.
> 
> I vote the thread be closed and we can ALL move on.
> 
> Who's with me??
> 
> *raising hand*



I have been having fun myself......I got more  



wrestlingguy said:


> I'm really pissed that there aren't any old men on the Hot Boy Thread.





RedVelvet said:


> I'm gonna go post a picture of Scott Glenn then...and Gabriel Byrne.....cuz They're HOT.
> 
> (and not young...)
> 
> Oh......And Bald, and short..........Ed Harris... (HOT)
> 
> 
> And Fat....James Gandolfini...... (Yeah..Hot..)




Good choices Arvee...I know that I, a longggggggggg time ago, posted John Goodman and James Belushi in that thread. Like I keep trying to say.....there are all kinds of men represented as attractive in that thread.


----------



## mossystate

Greeeeeeeeen...if you said it...I did not heeeeeeeear it.....I don't poke my ears with Q-tips......afraid I might puncture my grease trap. So, clueless I must remaaaaaaaaain.

duh


----------



## William

Sigh......

All I have said is that the lives of Fat Men in regards to their Fat is not the tiny tiny tiny packet that Fat Acceptance has portrayed it as, that is not saying that Fat Women are better off than Fat Men.

The only thing that I have said about the Hot Boy thread is that it mimics the values of society about the attractiveness of Fat Men and is at odds with the Fat Acceptance stance that Fat Men are so accepted by society.

When I talk about how off base Fat Acceptance is in what it says about the lives of Fat Men, it in no way lessens the experiences of Fat Women.

William






Fascinita said:


> After this thread is over, are we all going back to liking what we like? Right? We are. Right?
> 
> Oh, and William, since you seem truly miffed that fat women are so much better off than fat men, let me invite you to come along on a magical journey through time with the *Ghosts of Female Past, Present and Future*... A journey through a world where you used to be beaten with a rod, but no thicker than your husband's thumb! A journey through a world in which you still make 70 cents for every dollar a man makes! A journey through a world in which so many people are so threatened by the relative gains you've made as a member of the "weaker" (cue *rolleyes* here) gender, that they throw all of their energies into reining you in, body and soul, ensuring that whatever future you think you're entitled to is not the future you, in fact, get--you are a woman, after all, put on this earth to slave away in disenfranchised silence at making and raising babies, a reproductive machine from which every last drop of labor must be wrung. How dare you think you're entitled to like what you like, and want what you want?
> 
> I've posted some new pics to the Hot Boy Thread.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

William said:


> Sigh......
> 
> All I have said is that the lives of Fat Men in regards to their Fat is not the tiny tiny tiny packet that Fat Acceptance has portrayed it as, that is not saying that Fat Women are better off than Fat Men.
> 
> *The only thing that I have said about the Hot Boy thread is that it mimics the values of society about the attractiveness of Fat Men and is at odds with the Fat Acceptance stance that Fat Men are so accepted by society.*
> 
> When I talk about how off base Fat Acceptance is in what it says about the lives of Fat Men, it in no way lessens the experiences of Fat Women.
> 
> William



If you REALLY feel this way....then why are you posting pics of thin women in the hot girl thread? I mean...it's the exact same thing, right?


----------



## William

GEF

I have never yelled in church, you are mixed up.

William



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> And I haven't even brought out my whips and chains yet....these boys don't deserve all THAT wholesome goodness....
> 
> 
> 
> Silly goose....I said it earlier in this thread....if a man does it or wants it...then it's OKAY....jeez, you fat wimminz are dense....:doh:
> 
> 
> 
> You know.....I have been thinking....William has always been obtuse. Remember when he was on the main board about his "fat activism"? Making threads about how he yelled things out in the middle of church service and a lot of people said that he went too far to be so pushy.
> I think William hasn't recovered from that....and THAT is what this is all about. He's angry that he came here to boast about himself and no one seemed impressed.
> He kept on the same track in that thread....and he's doing it here, too. He's convinced himself that he is "right" and that anyone who disagrees is just being a big meanie and cannot possibly be correct in anything they say.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeppers...we OWE something has been the jist of this thread. They are angry about some other event....let it fester instead of moving on/getting over it and then cooked up this load of malarkey.
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't William's problem......he just knows that he loves himself some fat wimminz, or at least says he does even if he never posts any as his ideal of attractive in the hot girl thread, and since he does us this HUGE favor, we should all just stfu and let him have his gripefest.
> Jeez, Olwen.....don't you GET IT? FAT MEN HAVE IT HARD....HARDER THAN WOMEN....THEY ARE OUR VICTIMS EVEN!!!! :doh:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been having fun myself......I got more
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Good choices Arvee...I know that I, a longggggggggg time ago, posted John Goodman and James Belushi in that thread. Like I keep trying to say.....there are all kinds of men represented as attractive in that thread.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

William said:


> GEF
> 
> I have never yelled in church, you are mixed up.
> 
> William



Egads...I think you're right.....I'm probably getting you mixed up with Russell Williams again? 

Sorry for that part......


----------



## William

I would like both threads to continue, but Fat Women do not need a Hot Girl thread because the bias against Fat Women is well documented and acknowledged in Fat Acceptance. It seems that only Fat Men need to "earn" the right to say that they face obstacles in life.

What is good about the Hot Boy Thread is that it shows that Society also places little value in Fat Men, even if Fat Acceptance claims that Fat Men are accepted.

William



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> If you REALLY feel this way....then why are you posting pics of thin women in the hot girl thread? I mean...it's the exact same thing, right?


----------



## William

Please make more personal attacks toward me, even if I have been decent in my responses to others.

William




Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Egads...I think you're right.....I'm probably getting you mixed up with Russell Williams again?
> 
> Sorry for that part......


----------



## JoyJoy

I'm beginning to think that "willfully obtuse" is a generosity.


----------



## wrestlingguy

William said:


> I would like both threads to continue, but Fat Women do not need a Hot Girl thread because the bias against Fat Women is well documented and acknowledged in Fat Acceptance. It seems that only Fat Men need to "earn" the right to say that they face obstacles in life.
> 
> What is good about the Hot Boy Thread is that it shows that Society also places little value in Fat Men, even if Fat Acceptance claims that Fat Men are accepted.
> 
> William



And I said the same thing about old men, too, William......I really did.

And society places little value in old men, even if geezer acceptance claims that I am accepted.

Society is so unfair, even amongst my "peers"


----------



## wrestlingguy

JoyJoy said:


> I'm beginning to think that "willfully obtuse" is a generosity.


shit, I'm outta rep for today.


----------



## Fascinita

William said:


> Sigh......
> 
> All I have said is that the lives of Fat Men in regards to their Fat is not the tiny tiny tiny packet that Fat Acceptance has portrayed it as, that is not saying that Fat Women are better off than Fat Men.
> 
> The only thing that I have said about the Hot Boy thread is that it mimics the values of society about the attractiveness of Fat Men and is at odds with the Fat Acceptance stance that Fat Men are so accepted by society.
> 
> When I talk about how off base Fat Acceptance is in what it says about the lives of Fat Men, it in no way lessens the experiences of Fat Women.
> 
> William



Yeah, I'm not paying you any more attention in this thread after this reply, William, so savor this. 

Your point is misguided. It seems to me you should be fighting the size acceptance battle against people who genuinely don't accept bodies of size. You're completely wrong about the damned HBT. IF there's a famous fat guy out there, you bet he's been mentioned in the thread at some point. 

Some women have also made it a point to include men of different ethnicities--although I don't hear _you_ griping that the majority of the "boys" represented in that thread are caucasian. 

You're right that there is a dearth of famous fat bodies to covet and desire from afar. But we fat women didn't make it that way. And we're not the enemy. So give it up. 

_Et glout, et glou, et glou._


----------



## RedVelvet

wrestlingguy said:


> And I said the same thing about old men, too, William......I really did.
> 
> And society places little value in old men, even if geezer acceptance claims that I am accepted.
> 
> Society is so unfair, even amongst my "peers"



Old men are hot.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

William said:


> I would like both threads to continue, but Fat Women do not need a Hot Girl thread because the bias against Fat Women is well documented and acknowledged in Fat Acceptance. It seems that only Fat Men need to "earn" the right to say that they face obstacles in life.
> 
> What is good about the Hot Boy Thread is that it shows that Society also places little value in Fat Men, even if Fat Acceptance claims that Fat Men are accepted.
> 
> William



So....if you think the fat boy thread is good.... because it's supposed to be "proof" of fat men not being valued. You're point is not accurate, IMO. How about we run at this from a different angle? How about showing me how fat men are being DISVALUED instead of saying "they are not valued"? 
Are fat men being put down in the thread? If so, how? I want SPECIFICS William... not just "that thread proves my point" HOW does it prove your point? HOW? If you are as right as you seem to think, then surely you can stop being so vague, think about it really really hard and then give me a specific example of what occurred in the thread that demeans fat men.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

William said:


> Please make more personal attacks toward me, even if I have been decent in my responses to others.
> 
> William




Please make more blanket attacks toward the sexual preferences of fat women only


----------



## William

Hi Joy Joy

What ever you think of me, at the end of the day I can truly say that I have not tried to minimize or censure what BBWs have shared about their life experiences. I have only made statements on what I have experienced as a BHM and what other BHM have shared. 

William





JoyJoy said:


> I'm beginning to think that "willfully obtuse" is a generosity.


----------



## William

GEF

I have only compared the results to what Fat Acceptance has generally said that Fat Men experience in life, that is not attacking the posters in that thread

William




Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Please make more blanket attacks toward the sexual preferences of fat women only


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

William said:


> GEF
> 
> I have only compared the results to what Fat Acceptance has generally said that Fat Men experience in life, that is not attacking the posters in that thread
> 
> William



You respond to this but I'm actually waiting for you to respond to my post before this one about asking you to show exactly how that thread does something demeaning to BHMs

And do you have any links to what "Fat Acceptance says in general about fat men's life experiences" so I can compare it myself instead of just taking your word for it?


----------



## fatgirlflyin

William said:


> GEF
> 
> I have only compared the results to what Fat Acceptance has generally said that Fat Men experience in life, that is not attacking the posters in that thread
> 
> William




what has fat acceptance said that fat men experience in life?


----------



## Fascinita

William said:


> Hi Joy Joy
> 
> What ever you think of me, at the end of the day I can truly say that I have not tried to minimize or censure what BBWs have shared about their life experiences. I have only made statements on what I have experienced as a BHM and what other BHM have shared.
> 
> William



Well, what makes you seem willfully obtuse is that you have indeed tried to "minimize and censure what BBWs have shared about their life." By beating it over our heads that we are not allowed to desire what we desire, by further beating it over our heads that, when we defend ourselves against your claims that we devalue fat men, we are really just showing proof of our insensitivity to BHM pain, further proving your point that we are not aware of how much better we fat gals have it... By engaging in a polemicist rhetoric against people who mean you no harm, who are not "the enemy" and who are not in any way--at least not in any way that has a basis on reality--re-inforcing your standing as the least valuable of the fat social outcasts (as you repeatedly claim that we are doing to you), you are waging a fool's war, and--worse--one that I suspect is based on your dislike of women of general, and fat women most specifically. And yet you seem either unaware or unconcerned with any of this subtext. 

OK. I lied before. But now I really am done paying attention to you. 

Wakey, wakey, dude. That's my compassionate advice.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Exactly Fascinita....this thread really ISN'T about the men...but about the women...more specifically the fat ones.


----------



## wrestlingguy

Jezus, I almost left this thread, but I have to respond as a man married to a fat woman to the overall comments made by William.

When I was younger I was fat. Not morbidly obese, but fat. During my years as a fat man, never did I experience anywhere near what my wife, and the other fat women I have been with go through.

A fat man doesn't hear people make fun of the size of his ass as he tries to squeeze in his seat at the theater......fat women do.

Fat men can go to a club & dance with little or no repercussion. Fat women get mocked on the dance floor by their thinner counterparts, hence all the BBW dances & bashes that are held.

Fat men don't hear the indignities handed out by physicians that all of their ailments are the result of their fat. Fat women hear it on a regular basis.

Fat men don't hear that they'd look OOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHH so much better if they gained or lost a hundred pounds. Ask any fat lady on this board how often they hear that.

These are only SOME of the differences between being a fat man, and being a fat woman. I never walked in their shoes. Don't think I'd want to, either.

Listen, and learn William, and you can reach the first plateau as well.


----------



## William

Hi GEF

Just Google "Fat Men" "Fat Acceptance" the vast number of posts that I am talking about are there starting on page one onward.

I need to take a break but in this thread all that I have said is:

1. Fat Women have a harder time than Fat Men.

2. Fat Men experiences are minimized by the Fat Acceptance Community.

3. The Hot Boy thread mimics society's ideals and suggests that Society does not accept Fat Men at any where the level that Fat Acceptance portrays.

4. Fat Acceptance focuses too much on the greater acceptance of Fat Men instead of real Fat Male issues.

5. Fat Men are attacked if they suggest that Fat Acceptance is the least bit off on the Fat Male situation.

William






Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You respond to this but I'm actually waiting for you to respond to my post before this one about asking you to show exactly how that thread does something demeaning to BHMs
> 
> And do you have any links to what "Fat Acceptance says in general about fat men's life experiences" so I can compare it myself instead of just taking your word for it?


----------



## mossystate

In My Best Robotic Voice ( I have many )



I...Am...Not...All...Of....Society.....I .....Am....An....Individual.....I ....Like....What....I....Like.....I.....Want...All....People....To....Be.....Valued.....And.....I....Want.....To....Climb.....On.....Top....Of....The.....Men.....I.....Find....Yummy..I....Am.....Hoping....To...Do....That....Again....Soon



* experiences a bit of a short...bzz...bzzzzz...zap *


----------



## William

Hi WG

If you bothered to listen once to what I have been saying nothing that I have said reduces what Fat Women have shared about their lives. 

There is a huge gulf of room in Fat Acceptance for the tiny amount of fat issues that Fat Men have been allowed claim as real to be enlarged. Nothing that I have said has anything to do with reducing the saga of Fat Women. 

I really have to go and I am glad that you had a easy time being Fat.

William




wrestlingguy said:


> Jezus, I almost left this thread, but I have to respond as a man married to a fat woman to the overall comments made by William.
> 
> When I was younger I was fat. Not morbidly obese, but fat. During my years as a fat man, never did I experience anywhere near what my wife, and the other fat women I have been with go through.
> 
> A fat man doesn't hear people make fun of the size of his ass as he tries to squeeze in his seat at the theater......fat women do.
> 
> Fat men can go to a club & dance with little or no repercussion. Fat women get mocked on the dance floor by their thinner counterparts, hence all the BBW dances & bashes that are held.
> 
> Fat men don't hear the indignities handed out by physicians that all of their ailments are the result of their fat. Fat women hear it on a regular basis.
> 
> Fat men don't hear that they'd look OOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHH so much better if they gained or lost a hundred pounds. Ask any fat lady on this board how often they hear that.
> 
> These are only SOME of the differences between being a fat man, and being a fat woman. I never walked in their shoes. Don't think I'd want to, either.
> 
> Listen, and learn William, and you can reach the first plateau as well.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

William said:


> Hi GEF
> 
> Just Google "Fat Men" "Fat Acceptance" the vast number of posts that I am talking about are there starting on page one onward.
> 
> I need to take a break but in this thread all that I have said is:
> 
> 1. Fat Women have a harder time than Fat Men.
> 
> 2. Fat Men experiences are minimized by the Fat Acceptance Community.
> 
> 3. The Hot Boy thread mimics society's ideals and suggests that Society does not accept Fat Men at any where the level that Fat Acceptance portrays.
> 
> 4. Fat Acceptance focuses too much on the greater acceptance of Fat Men instead of real Fat Male issues.
> 
> 5. Fat Men are attacked if they suggest that Fat Acceptance is the least bit off on the Fat Male situation.
> 
> William



No no William, you DID do this in another thread... saying "google it if you don't believe me". That's not MY homework to do...YOU are making the assertions so YOU google it and post the links. 

And what does sites that can be googled have to do with the hot boy thread or the fat women on this board? Spill it William...your game is trite.


----------



## RedVelvet

Fascinita said:


> Well, what makes you seem willfully obtuse is that you have indeed tried to "minimize and censure what BBWs have shared about their life." By beating it over our heads that we are not allowed to desire what we desire, by further beating it over our heads that, when we defend ourselves against your claims that we devalue fat men, we are really just showing proof of our insensitivity to BHM pain, further proving your point that we are not aware of how much better we fat gals have it... By engaging in a polemicist rhetoric against people who mean you no harm, who are not "the enemy" and who are not in any way--at least not in any way that has a basis on reality--re-inforcing your standing as the least valuable of the fat social outcasts (as you repeatedly claim that we are doing to you), you are waging a fool's war, and--worse--one that I suspect is based on your dislike of women of general, and fat women most specifically. And yet you seem either unaware or unconcerned with any of this subtext.
> 
> OK. I lied before. But now I really am done paying attention to you.
> 
> Wakey, wakey, dude. That's my compassionate advice.





I just realized that William is fighting an epic battle to be considered more of a victim.

Whoa...

Me....I think I will just be gorgeous instead.


----------



## CAMellie

This has been fun! William? You have issues, man. Get a clue, ok? Bye.


----------



## mossystate

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> your game is trite.




quite.....

William...just so you know...really know..........I am looking at you as an individual...not as all of fat man-kind....I really want you to know this...so that you do not fancy yourself a martyr....If you had only kept your anger directed at real problems, even if you had just come at it with an air of feeling depressed....you would have had SO much support....SO...SO....much support

You blew an opportunity, by trashing a huge number of people out here.


----------



## Fascinita

RedVelvet said:


> I just realized that William is fighting an epic battle to be considered more of a victim.
> 
> Whoa...
> 
> Me....I think I will just be gorgeous instead.



MeeeeeeeeOW, sexy girl. Hubba hubba.

OK. And I think I am comfortable with following your lead on that. I may also decide to follow mossy's lead and go straddle some hunk of man soon.

I'm off to be gorgeous! And sexually satisfied!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

RedVelvet said:


> I just realized that William is fighting an epic battle to be considered more of a victim.
> 
> Whoa...
> 
> Me....I think I will just be gorgeous instead.




You already are.....however, I'm not letting him play victim. He's not a victim...no matter how attractive that prospect seems to him. 

Let me give you some insight...and I can because I was a "victim" myself for a while. I was married to victims. Victims cannot even see that being a victim....SUCKS. Victims like the role and some never will relinquish the title....

That title....VICTIM...it's really not so bad. Know why? It's an easy out for doing whatever you want.....you don't have to tow the line because....you can't....because....you're a VICTIM. Sheesh, if someone "proves" that they are a victim, then everyone HAS to feel sorry for them and let them have their way. It lets a person make every excuse in the world not to succeed...and it will never be their own fault as long as they tag themselves "victim". 
It gives them some type of secret status, in their own minds anyway, to not take personal responsibility for their very own actions or thoughts. 
Very attractive prospect indeed, wouldn't you say?

Ever hear a couple of "victims" sit around and try to compare who the worst victim is? It's pretty fooking pathetic....believe me. 

What I don't get? William claims to work with substance abusers and even mentioned AA to me earlier in this thread....guess what? AA is about surviving and one of it's goals is to make you STOP feeling sorry for yourself. 
Doesn't he realize this?


----------



## William

Hi Mossy

So you are saying that the Societal Ideals that the Hot Boy and Hot Girl threads represent are not real problems????

and I guess that you also feel that the Fat Acceptance need to minimize Fat Male issues most of the time is not a issue. I say most of time because places like Dimensions do compensate.

Those are the only issues that I have given my support, though I may have strayed because of all the twists in this thread.

William



mossystate said:


> quite.....
> 
> William...just so you know...really know..........I am looking at you as an individual...not as all of fat man-kind....I really want you to know this...so that you do not fancy yourself a martyr....If you had only kept your anger directed at real problems, even if you had just come at it with an air of feeling depressed....you would have had SO much support....SO...SO....much support
> 
> You blew an opportunity, by trashing a huge number of people out here.


----------



## William

GEF

That is very passive aggressive of you to call someone who disagrees with you a victim or something else derogatory. When someone disagrees with me I just respond with a better answer.

William





Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You already are.....however, I'm not letting him play victim. He's not a victim...no matter how attractive that prospect seems to him.
> 
> Let me give you some insight...and I can because I was a "victim" myself for a while. I was married to victims. Victims cannot even see that being a victim....SUCKS. Victims like the role and some never will relinquish the title....
> 
> That title....VICTIM...it's really not so bad. Know why? It's an easy out for doing whatever you want.....you don't have to tow the line because....you can't....because....you're a VICTIM. Sheesh, if someone "proves" that they are a victim, then everyone HAS to feel sorry for them and let them have their way. It lets a person make every excuse in the world not to succeed...and it will never be their own fault as long as they tag themselves "victim".
> It gives them some type of secret status, in their own minds anyway, to not take personal responsibility for their very own actions or thoughts.
> Very attractive prospect indeed, wouldn't you say?
> 
> Ever hear a couple of "victims" sit around and try to compare who the worst victim is? It's pretty fooking pathetic....believe me.
> 
> What I don't get? William claims to work with substance abusers and even mentioned AA to me earlier in this thread....guess what? AA is about surviving and one of it's goals is to make you STOP feeling sorry for yourself.
> Doesn't he realize this?


----------



## wrestlingguy

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lwZLp7GpeIM


----------



## mossystate

William said:


> Hi Mossy
> 
> So you are saying that the Societal Ideals that the Hot Boy and Hot Girl threads represent are not real problems????
> 
> and I guess that you also feel that the Fat Acceptance need to minimize Fat Male issues most of the time is not a issue. I say most of time because places like Dimensions do compensate.
> 
> Those are the only issues that I have given my support, though I may have strayed because of all the twists in this thread.
> 
> William



I am saying that you cannot FORCE attraction. So, no, I do not think that people showing pictures of what they find attractive ( which, if you really bothered to LOOK at the Hot Boy thread, you would see that many..many women have many..many types they like, including FAT men ) is a problem..at all.

Lots of the ' support ' given fat women is not all that great. Other than you not liking that a fat woman might not find a fat man attractive, how is it that fat men are pushed to the side? You need to understand that men tend to be not as vocal when it comes to demanding to be...seen. THAT just might be because, in general, men tend to not HAVE to wave their arms around. The world gives them many more opportunities to simply exist. 

Fat men will get less notice, simply for being fat..of course. But, again, HOW is this the fault of what you perceive to be this great nirvana that fat women enjoy. If YOU want to be seen....get noticed. 

Just...PLEASE...do not blame fat women. You remind me of men who will snarl at the big bags some women carry...BUT...when they don't WANT to carry the map and the this and the that...they ask the woman to carry it for them.


William...get your own damned bag....and...if you find yours getting too full....I will gladly help you out...because you have made an attempt.


----------



## Fascinita

wrestlingguy said:


> http://youtube.com/watch?v=lwZLp7GpeIM



I've got two. They flip and they flop. And they make dolphin sounds. Dolphin. Not walrus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG5Wd1nZTyc&feature=related

But the walrus was adorable, too. :happy:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

William said:


> GEF
> 
> That is very passive aggressive of you to call someone who disagrees with you a victim or something else derogatory. When someone disagrees with me I just respond with a better answer.
> 
> William




Gee, I said that you are NOT a victim....which you have tried to prove you are in this thread...that you have felt every conceivable slight possible from "fat acceptance". That isn't correct? 
It's passive aggressive to continue this thread....I think I will go and continue to view the very attractive men in the hot boy thread.....if that's okay with you.


----------



## Shosh

wrestlingguy said:


> Jezus, I almost left this thread, but I have to respond as a man married to a fat woman to the overall comments made by William.
> 
> When I was younger I was fat. Not morbidly obese, but fat. During my years as a fat man, never did I experience anywhere near what my wife, and the other fat women I have been with go through.
> 
> A fat man doesn't hear people make fun of the size of his ass as he tries to squeeze in his seat at the theater......fat women do.
> 
> Fat men can go to a club & dance with little or no repercussion. Fat women get mocked on the dance floor by their thinner counterparts, hence all the BBW dances & bashes that are held.
> 
> Fat men don't hear the indignities handed out by physicians that all of their ailments are the result of their fat. Fat women hear it on a regular basis.
> 
> Fat men don't hear that they'd look OOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHH so much better if they gained or lost a hundred pounds. Ask any fat lady on this board how often they hear that.
> 
> These are only SOME of the differences between being a fat man, and being a fat woman. I never walked in their shoes. Don't think I'd want to, either.
> 
> Listen, and learn William, and you can reach the first plateau as well.




Bravo Phil. So so true, every word you have said here. People made my life so much of a misery that I wondered if it was worth going on at one point.


----------



## wrestlingguy

Fascinita said:


> I've got two. They flip and they flop. And they make dolphin sounds. Dolphin. Not walrus.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG5Wd1nZTyc&feature=related
> 
> But the walrus was adorable, too. :happy:




I like walruses, sorry..............or is it walri??


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

mossystate said:


> I am saying that you cannot FORCE attraction. So, no, I do not think that people showing pictures of what they find attractive ( which, if you really bothered to LOOK at the Hot Boy thread, you would see that many..many women have many..many types they like, including FAT men ) is a problem..at all.
> 
> Lots of the ' support ' given fat women is not all that great. *Other than you not liking that a fat woman might not find a fat man attractive, how is it that fat men are pushed to the side? *You need to understand that men tend to be not as vocal when it comes to demanding to be...seen. THAT just might be because, in general, men tend to not HAVE to wave their arms around. The world gives them many more opportunities to simply exist.
> 
> Fat men will get less notice, simply for being fat..of course. But, again, HOW is this the fault of what you perceive to be this great nirvana that fat women enjoy. If YOU want to be seen....get noticed.
> 
> Just...PLEASE...do not blame fat women. You remind me of men who will snarl at the big bags some women carry...BUT...when they don't WANT to carry the map and the this and the that...they ask the woman to carry it for them.
> 
> 
> William...get your own damned bag....and...if you find yours getting too full....I will gladly help you out...because you have made an attempt.




The answer, my friend, is in google.....


----------



## Smite

Is it really a relevation that fat men are pushed to the side on DIMs? (We are talking about DIMs, right?)


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

Smite said:


> Is it really a relevation that fat men are pushed to the side on DIMs? (We are talking about DIMs, right?)



I'm seeing a serious lack of THIN FA appreciation threads around here. 

Eff this noise.


----------



## Fascinita

wrestlingguy said:


> I like walruses, sorry..............or is it walri??



Of course! He is adorable. I was just referring to my *Giant boobies making dolphin sounds* post in this thread last night, to which Stan was kind enough to provide seal sound effects. 

The walrus is adorable, no doubt about it.

You like what you like, daddy.


----------



## Smite

BothGunsBlazing said:


> I'm seeing a serious lack of THIN FA appreciation threads around here.
> 
> Eff this noise.



You got me an infraction :/. 

But if you needed any proof of BHM's being pushed to the side on DIMs, then look no further than the response and the effects that happened to the BHM board when a certain site popped up.


----------



## wrestlingguy

BothGunsBlazing said:


> I'm seeing a serious lack of THIN FA appreciation threads around here.
> 
> Eff this noise.



Here goes another 20 pages............


----------



## The Fez

BothGunsBlazing said:


> I'm seeing a serious lack of THIN FA appreciation threads around here.
> 
> Eff this noise.



Fo' serous.

I'm now going to go and cry about it in a corner for the next 20 pages. Ciao.


----------



## mossystate

Smite said:


> Is it really a relevation that fat men are pushed to the side on DIMs? (We are talking about DIMs, right?)




Ok...how so....really....are you only talking about the number of people sexually attracted to fat men versus fat women?

Because, if you are...good god....you are showing that this is about ' hookin up '..and I know I am just an old lady, and I don't quite get how support should only, or mostly, be seen in terms of ....sexual attraction...but...help me out here.

What do you want.


* damn...could have Gooooogled the answer...oop...Green, I shall obey you...next time...promise!


----------



## Waxwing

Smite said:


> Is it really a relevation that fat men are pushed to the side on DIMs? (We are talking about DIMs, right?)



How much of that is a result of actual marginalization and how much of it is a result of the BHMs not being as vocal and as visible on the board?


----------



## Smite

Waxwing said:


> How much of that is a result of actual marginalization and how much of it is a result of the BHMs not being as vocal and as visible on the board?



It's entirely a result(Chat) of the team in charge realizing(Chat) it was an untapped market and(Chat) that if you don't pay attention to the side, someone will come in and take it away(Chat).

But I really don't want to get into this again. (Chat)


----------



## mossystate

Waxwing said:


> How much of that is a result of actual marginalization and how much of it is a result of the BHMs not being as vocal and as visible on the board?



Exactly. The overall tone of the general size acceptance out here is for all...all.


----------



## Smite

mossystate said:


> Exactly. The overall tone of the general size acceptance out here is for all...all.



I didn't mean as size acceptance, I meant as in the main focus of DIMs. Obviously both sides want to help each other gain acceptance, but I can't be the only one whose surprised at seeing this enevitable "uprising".


----------



## The Fez

I hope it's just all the beer that's helped me lose sight of what's going on in this thread

it is, right? somebody bring me up to speed, I'm lost again


----------



## Sweet Tooth

I've been trying to follow this thread from the beginning, and now all I have to say is....

Oh, good Lord. I'm not sure whether to break out the popcorn and watch or the liquor and forget this whole thing. :doh:


----------



## The Fez

Well I've only got 2 beers of 8 left, and I'm attributing it to the inanity of this thread.

Good job guys! You've furthered alcoholism!


----------



## Fascinita

Smite said:


> this enevitable "uprising".



Oooooh. We have a Che Guevara in our midst!

Look. An uprising? What is with all the hostility against this website? Is this about the young gorilla trying to challenge the silverback for control of the group? Sheesh. Check yourself, little one. If you're not happy, why not do something positive to change things?


----------



## William

Mossy

Can you please show me anywhere in this thread where I have attacked the Fat Women Posters in the Hot Boy Thread?? The most that I have said is that the aggregate of their choices is no where as rosy for Fat Men in regards to how accepted Fat Acceptance claims Fat Men to be. 

That is all that I have said and anything else I have said did not even mention the Hot Boy Thread. 

I also have not said anything about what Fat Women experience. I have only commented on what Fat Acceptance states that Fat Men experience. I have no need to change anything in Fat Acceptance other than the way Fat Men are portrayed as being highly accepted.

What can you find wrong with this?

William





mossystate said:


> I am saying that you cannot FORCE attraction. So, no, I do not think that people showing pictures of what they find attractive ( which, if you really bothered to LOOK at the Hot Boy thread, you would see that many..many women have many..many types they like, including FAT men ) is a problem..at all.
> 
> Lots of the ' support ' given fat women is not all that great. Other than you not liking that a fat woman might not find a fat man attractive, how is it that fat men are pushed to the side? You need to understand that men tend to be not as vocal when it comes to demanding to be...seen. THAT just might be because, in general, men tend to not HAVE to wave their arms around. The world gives them many more opportunities to simply exist.
> 
> Fat men will get less notice, simply for being fat..of course. But, again, HOW is this the fault of what you perceive to be this great nirvana that fat women enjoy. If YOU want to be seen....get noticed.
> 
> Just...PLEASE...do not blame fat women. You remind me of men who will snarl at the big bags some women carry...BUT...when they don't WANT to carry the map and the this and the that...they ask the woman to carry it for them.
> 
> 
> William...get your own damned bag....and...if you find yours getting too full....I will gladly help you out...because you have made an attempt.


----------



## PolarKat

Freestyle Fez said:


> I hope it's just all the beer that's helped me lose sight of what's going on in this thread
> 
> it is, right? somebody bring me up to speed, I'm lost again



Green Team has 6
2 lights are burned out
Bigfoot was seen about 10 minutes ago.
and you're still posting nonsense

I think that about covers it..


----------



## Smite

Fascinita said:


> Oooooh. We have a Che Guevara in our midst!
> 
> Look. An uprising? What is with all the hostility against this website? Is this about the young gorilla trying to challenge the silverback for control of the group? Sheesh. Check yourself, little one. If you're not happy, why not do something positive to change things?



Because Conrad isn't a loud mouthed idiot like myself, so I could only dream of having his pristine control and dedication .



> it is, right? somebody bring me up to speed, I'm lost again



Someone brought up a good point, angry mob twisted and turned the argument every which way.


----------



## Blackjack




----------



## bigsexy920

Im pissed that there aren't any men with one eye thread - I mean how many good looking guys do i have to look at and then find they have two functional eyes. 





wrestlingguy said:


> I'm really pissed that there aren't any old men on the Hot Boy Thread.


----------



## The Fez

PolarKat said:


> Green Team has 6
> 2 lights are burned out
> Bigfoot was seen about 10 minutes ago.
> and you're still posting nonsense
> 
> I think that about covers it..



I'M still posting nonsense? You've read the rest of the thread ri-...


oh wait, so I am. Carry on.


----------



## Waxwing

Freestyle Fez said:


> Well I've only got 2 beers of 8 left, and I'm attributing it to the inanity of this thread.
> 
> Good job guys! You've furthered alcoholism!



Then you've got two more beers than I, my good lad.


----------



## PolarKat

Freestyle Fez said:


> I'M still posting nonsense? You've read the rest of the thread ri-...
> 
> 
> oh wait, so I am. Carry on.





..


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

William said:


> Hi GEF
> 
> Just Google "Fat Men" "Fat Acceptance" the vast number of posts that I am talking about are there starting on page one onward.





> I need to take a break but in this thread all that I have said is:
> 
> 1. Fat Women have a harder time than Fat Men.



TRUE



> 2. Fat Men experiences are minimized by the Fat Acceptance Community.



TRUE



> 3. The Hot Boy thread mimics society's ideals and suggests that Society does not accept Fat Men at any where the level that Fat Acceptance portrays.



TRUE



> 4. Fat Acceptance focuses too much on the greater acceptance of Fat Men instead of real Fat Male issues.



TRUE



> 5. Fat Men are attacked if they suggest that Fat Acceptance is the least bit off on the Fat Male situation.



TRUE




And the viciousness of the attacks on William in this thread are disgusting in a community about acceptance. But I see the witch hunts continue. If you don't agree with it - kill it - nothing changes here.

This issue has been around for as long as I can remember - and fat men are ALWAYS shouted down by fat women. It's about discrimination not who gets discriminated more. Why aren't there more fat men in Size Acceptance? Just look at this thread - it explains it well.


----------



## Smite

How can you say TRUE to all of those facts without having the opinion of the other side too? Just because one person comes out and says something doesn't make it a fact. 

The whole "doctors lay into bbw's and not BHM's" is straight up horse shit anyways. Fat is fat is fat is fat. They'll tell anyone whose fat it's bad. It's not some big conspiracy against females.


----------



## Tooz

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> TRUE
> 
> 
> 
> TRUE
> 
> 
> 
> TRUE
> 
> 
> 
> TRUE
> 
> 
> 
> TRUE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the viciousness of the attacks on William in this thread are disgusting in a community about acceptance. But I see the witch hunts continue. If you don't agree with it - kill it - nothing changes here.
> 
> This issue has been around for as long as I can remember - and fat men are ALWAYS shouted down by fat women. It's about discrimination not who gets discriminated more. Why aren't there more fat men in Size Acceptance? Just look at this thread - it explains it well.



I find it hilarious you think three is true. Acceptance != attraction. I DON'T ALWAYS FIND GUYS WHO ARE FAT HOT. Sometimes I do but for the most part I don't! Do I still love them as I love anyone else and do I still want them to be equal and have their lives be free of the issues fat people face? Yes, more than almost anything. How is that NOT acceptance? What the fuck?


----------



## Waxwing

Tooz said:


> I find it hilarious you think three is true. Acceptance != attraction. I DON'T ALWAYS FIND GUYS WHO ARE FAT HOT. Sometimes I do but for the most part I don't! Do I still love them as I love anyone else and do I still want them to be equal and have their lives be free of the issues fat people face? Yes, more than almost anything. How is that NOT acceptance? What the fuck?



Exactly. Lack of sexual attraction doesn't mean that you don't have respect for a particular type/shape/person. 

"I don't want to fuck you" does NOT equal "I think you're garbage."


----------



## mossystate

If I do not agree with something, I say so. There has been no killing. There is no mob out to get William. He has been asked..over and over..why he is playing the blame game and placing his anger at the feet of women who post pictures of, or prefer men who are not fat. 

I can accept you..I do not HAVE to want you. Not wanting you does not mean you are invisible or not valuable. Take some time to see just how much of the supposed ' support ' of fat women is all about wanting to get laid ( and..nothin wrong with that..ha ). Take that away and you are left with TRUE Size Acceptance...for human beings...male...female.

Jaysus


----------



## Fascinita

Smite said:


> How can you say TRUE to all of those facts without having the opinion of the other side too? Just because one person comes out and says something doesn't make it a fact.



Looooook. He's biting that hand that feeds him. How adorable! Awwwwww.

hahahahahahahaa


----------



## olwen

Smite said:


> How can you say TRUE to all of those facts without having the opinion of the other side too? Just because one person comes out and says something doesn't make it a fact.
> 
> The whole "doctors lay into bbw's and not BHM's" is straight up horse shit anyways. Fat is fat is fat is fat. They'll tell anyone whose fat it's bad. It's not some big conspiracy against females.



Fat guys take shit from doctors. I never said they didn't. I said fat guys don't have to deal with GYNs, which is true. I said this is one aspect of medicine that you don't have to deal with. Yes or no? I did not say that your experiences were unimportant or trite. In fact I said we all go thru crap as fat people. It's all there in black and white.

Smite, instead of just saying fat guys have it hard, why not speak about your experiences. That's the point of all this and that is what many of us have said - SPEAK UP. We're not mind readers. TELL US SPECIFICALLY what's going on. We want to know what you go thru as fat men. I'm sure a lot of us do and we'd support you too. I'm not so sure I get why would you think otherwise. How can we support you if you don't talk about it. Be vocal.


ETA: I really did try to bury the dead horse.


----------



## Smite

I don't have anything hard, or atleast haven't experienced anything about it. That's why i've been staying out of that conversation and sticking into the one about the size of the communities on the itnernet, as it really doesn't pertain to me enough to have a valid opinion on it. And I wasn't trying to say you were wrong Olwen, but the dude up above (sorry forgot your name at this moment  ) who wrote it like fat guys period don't get shit.

Like I said, i'm all for acceptance throughout both camps. What i'm against is this being labelled as a BHM only thing and hope both sides see it's a issue on both sides. Like I said before, I hate when bhm's say "fat women are gross and disgusting" as it's kinda hypocritical, but to deny that that doesn't happen from the other end of the spectrum too is just ludicrous.


----------



## wrestlingguy

> Fat men don't hear the indignities handed out by physicians that all of their ailments are the result of their fat. Fat women hear it on a regular basis.



I said it, not you, Olwen. Again, I can only speak from my experience, but at 273 pounds, my doctors never commented except to say have I considered dieting.

Someone aksed me privately a while ago if the lack of comments about my weight were related to me being a male, and I think that is the larger part of it. The other part was that I looked very intimidating, and not very friendly, and that may have prevented them from getting to the point.

After Carla's weight loss surgery failure, doctors were quick to condemn her for not "listening to them". It was a crock of shit, and more reason that I avoid going to a doctor even today.

My point, and I still hold it based on my experience, is that I lose in the "shit that has to be gone through" contest in relationship to women.


----------



## olwen

Okay. Smite, WG thanks for the clarification. We're all good.

I think the hostility and frustration expressed in this thread have gotten to me so I bid this thread adieu and commence with digging the dead horse's grave.


----------



## William

Hi Sandie 

Thanks for the support!

William




Sandie_Zitkus said:


> TRUE
> 
> 
> 
> TRUE
> 
> 
> 
> TRUE
> 
> 
> 
> TRUE
> 
> 
> 
> TRUE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the viciousness of the attacks on William in this thread are disgusting in a community about acceptance. But I see the witch hunts continue. If you don't agree with it - kill it - nothing changes here.
> 
> This issue has been around for as long as I can remember - and fat men are ALWAYS shouted down by fat women. It's about discrimination not who gets discriminated more. Why aren't there more fat men in Size Acceptance? Just look at this thread - it explains it well.


----------



## Fascinita

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> This issue has been around for as long as I can remember - and fat men are ALWAYS shouted down by fat women. It's about discrimination not who gets discriminated more. Why aren't there more fat men in Size Acceptance? Just look at this thread - it explains it well.[/COLOR]



No, this makes perfect sense.

After all, wherever there's something wrong--somewhere, somehow, a woman must be to blame.


----------



## William

Mossy

Please Please show me where I have blamed anyone about any photos here?????

The most that I have said is that the Hot Boy thread mirrors Society's ideals of beauty.

Sigh!! (it is good that I am very patient)




mossystate said:


> If I do not agree with something, I say so. There has been no killing. There is no mob out to get William. He has been asked..over and over..why he is playing the blame game and placing his anger at the feet of women who post pictures of, or prefer men who are not fat.
> 
> I can accept you..I do not HAVE to want you. Not wanting you does not mean you are invisible or not valuable. Take some time to see just how much of the supposed ' support ' of fat women is all about wanting to get laid ( and..nothin wrong with that..ha ). Take that away and you are left with TRUE Size Acceptance...for human beings...male...female.
> 
> Jaysus


----------



## wrestlingguy

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> TRUE
> 
> 
> 
> TRUE
> 
> 
> 
> TRUE
> 
> 
> 
> TRUE
> 
> 
> 
> TRUE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And the viciousness of the attacks on William in this thread are disgusting in a community about acceptance. But I see the witch hunts continue. If you don't agree with it - kill it - nothing changes here.
> 
> This issue has been around for as long as I can remember - and fat men are ALWAYS shouted down by fat women. It's about discrimination not who gets discriminated more. Why aren't there more fat men in Size Acceptance? Just look at this thread - it explains it well.



I'm gonna step out on a limb here, Sandy, and speak what I think may be the mood of the board with regard to William. He has one point, that fat men have it harder than fat women (oh wait, equally hard, at least).

Then when someone asks him to support his claim with substance, which might just involve dialogue based on the MERITS of his comments, he directs them to Google to do their own research, assuming they will reach the same conclusions as him. That's risky, and it removes the tipping of the scales by discussing it here.

That, to most readers & posters here, is frustrating. Frustration breeds hostility, not understanding. SO, I guess I'm saying that William is bringing on some of this himself.


----------



## PolarKat

wrestlingguy said:


> He has one point, that fat men have it harder than fat women (oh wait, equally hard, at least).


He's actually been saying the opposite, go back in the thread before his points dissapeared


----------



## William

Hi 

If I ever said that I thought that Fat Men have it harder than Fat then that was a typo. 

Still have said enough times that I think that Fat Women have a harder time that there should be no confusion unless that is what you intended.

I have only disagreed with the tiny amount of Fat Oppression that Fat Acceptance will acknowledge in the experiences of Fat Men.

William





wrestlinggu
y said:


> I'm gonna step out on a limb here, Sandy, and speak what I think may be the mood of the board with regard to William. He has one point, that fat men have it harder than fat women (oh wait, equally hard, at least).
> 
> Then when someone asks him to support his claim with substance, which might just involve dialogue based on the MERITS of his comments, he directs them to Google to do their own research, assuming they will reach the same conclusions as him. That's risky, and it removes the tipping of the scales by discussing it here.
> 
> That, to most readers & posters here, is frustrating. Frustration breeds hostility, not understanding. SO, I guess I'm saying that William is bringing on some of this himself.


----------



## wrestlingguy

William said:


> Hi
> 
> I have only disagreed with the tiny amount of Fat Oppression that Fat Acceptance will acknowledge in the experiences of Fat Men.
> 
> William



Hi William,

Can you support this contention?


----------



## William

Sigh!

I do not have to because Google has recorded it all and a simple search on "Fat Men" "Fat Acceptance" will produce hundreds if not not thousands of Fat Acceptance comments on the extra acceptance that Fat Men experience.

Better yet do a search on "This is not to say that Fat Men do not" and you see what I am talking about. Most often that is the only thing the Authors have to say about Fat Men.

William






wrestlingguy said:


> Hi William,
> 
> Can you support this contention?


----------



## Blackjack

William said:


> Sigh!
> 
> I do not have to because Google has recorded it all and a simple search on "Fat Men" "Fat Acceptance" will produce hundreds if not not thousands of Fat Acceptance comments on the extra acceptance that Fat Men experience.
> 
> Better yet do a search on "This is not to say that Fat Men do not" and you see what I am talking about. Most often that is the only thing the Authors have to say about Fat Men.
> 
> William



If you're trying to prove something, then YOU do the research.

WE should not have to prove YOUR point for you.


----------



## wrestlingguy

William said:


> Sigh!
> 
> I do not have to because Google has recorded it all and a simple search on "Fat Men" "Fat Acceptance" will produce hundreds if not not thousands of Fat Acceptance comments on the extra acceptance that Fat Men experience.
> 
> Better yet do a search on "This is not to say that Fat Men do not" and you see what I am talking about. Most often that is the only thing the Authors have to say about Fat Men.
> 
> William



Hi William,

Do I do the regular Google search, or do I hit "I'm feeling lucky"?


----------



## William

I am too busy and the comments are so numerous that I will not waste the time creating links, sorry

William




Blackjack said:


> If you're trying to prove something, then YOU do the research.
> 
> WE should not have to prove YOUR point for you.


----------



## Blackjack

William said:


> I am too busy and the comments are so numerous that I will not waste the time creating links, sorry
> 
> William



If you're too busy to back up your arguments then you shouldn't be making any in the first place.


----------



## stan_der_man

William said:


> Sigh!
> 
> I do not have to because Google has recorded it all and a simple search on "Fat Men" "Fat Acceptance" will produce hundreds if not not thousands of Fat Acceptance comments on the extra acceptance that Fat Men experience.
> 
> Better yet do a search on "This is not to say that Fat Men do not" and you see what I am talking about. Most often that is the only thing the Authors have to say about Fat Men.
> 
> William



William,
I don't think people are trying to pick on you per se, I'm certainly not. Google searches, particularly ones that turn up mostly blogs are not necessarily the most unbiased of information. I did a Google just as you suggested. Actually most of the information doesn't cast the light on fat men that you suggest that it does, possibly with the exception of your own blog.




wrestlingguy said:


> Hi William,
> 
> Can you support this contention?



In my humble opinion... no.


----------



## William

wrestlingguy said:


> Hi William,
> 
> Do I do the regular Google search, or do I hit "I'm feeling lucky"?



Google Search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22fat+acceptance%22+%22fat+men%22&start=20&sa=N

I have to admit that the newer entries from Blogs are much better, still there is enough left to turn a BHM's stomach.

William


----------



## stan_der_man

If a woman has to take care of a screaming child in the car while a man is hooking up a camping trailer in 100° F heat... Who is suffering the most?


We each see things from our perspectives, male or female. Trying to quantify who "suffers the most" has yet to be achieved, and probably never will.


The oil rig worker or fisherman will tell you that men have the worse lot... Emergency room nurses, or women who assist abused women will tell you that women have the worse lot.


I doubt the question of who has the "worse lot" will be answered in this thread.


----------



## William

Hi Stan

Except for a few personal attacks by a few women that I had felt were better than what they have shown, it has just been a disagreement and I am willing to respond.

Flip some pages the Blog entries have over run Google

or look at this one

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22fat+men%22+%22fat+women%22+acceptance&start=0&sa=N

William



fa_man_stan said:


> William,
> I don't think people are trying to pick on you per se, I'm certainly not. Google searches, particularly ones that turn up mostly blogs are not necessarily the most unbiased of information. I did a Google just as you suggested. Actually most of the information doesn't cast the light on fat men that you suggest that it does, possibly with the exception of your own blog.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my opinion... no.


----------



## William

Hi Stan

That was never my question, I ONLY asked for little more realism in the Fat Male experiences reported by Fat Acceptance

I will get some links together 

William





fa_man_stan said:


> If a woman has to take care of a screaming child in the car while a man is hooking up a camping trailer in 100° F heat... Who is suffering the most?
> 
> 
> We each see things from our perspectives, male or female. Trying to quantify who "suffers the most" has yet to be achieved, and probably never will.
> 
> 
> The oil rig worker or fisherman will tell you that men have the worse lot... Emergency room nurses, or women who assist abused women will tell you that women have the worse lot.
> 
> 
> I doubt the question of who has the "worse lot" will be answered in this thread.


----------



## Waxwing

Stop capitalizing "fat men".

Edit: Not because I have any specific opinion on this matter, but because I don't think you should randomly capitalize things unless you're A.A. Milne.


----------



## NancyGirl74

Can't we all just get along?

I mean seriously. Aren't we tired of bickering yet? Lets just have a freaking group hug and be done with it! I'll even allow random ass groping during the hug...whaddya say?


----------



## Renaissance Woman

Smite said:


> You got me an infraction :/.


Correction: YOU got you an infraction.

Carry on with the martyrdom.


----------



## William

Ok 

Here is a better search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22fat+men%22+%22fat+women%22+suffer&start=0&sa=Nhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22fat+men%22+%22fat+women%22+suffer&start=0&sa=N

"Fat Men" "Fat Women" Suffer

William





William said:


> Google Search
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22fat+acceptance%22+%22fat+men%22&start=20&sa=N
> 
> I have to admit that the newer entries from Blogs are much better, still there is enough left to turn a BHM's stomach.
> 
> William


----------



## fatgirlflyin

William said:


> Hi Mossy
> 
> So you are saying that the Societal Ideals that the Hot Boy and Hot Girl threads represent are not real problems????
> 
> and I guess that you also feel that the Fat Acceptance need to minimize Fat Male issues most of the time is not a issue. I say most of time because places like Dimensions do compensate.
> 
> Those are the only issues that I have given my support, though I may have strayed because of all the twists in this thread.
> 
> William



Again, how does the fat acceptance movement minimize the issues that fat men face? You keep saying that but you are not backing it up with anything. 

Not one time have I seen a woman tell a fat man to shut up and stop whining about some abuse he's suffered because of being fat. Also, society has nothing to do with what I feel is attractive. I like fat men and women, I also like skinny men and women. I dont like the skinny ones because society says its ok to be attracted to thin people and I dont like the fat ones just because they look like me.


----------



## NancyGirl74

NancyGirl74 said:


> Can't we all just get along?
> 
> I mean seriously. Aren't we tired of bickering yet? Lets just have a freaking group hug and be done with it! I'll even allow random ass groping during the hug...whaddya say?



I guess not.


----------



## GWARrior

25 pages.

for cereal??


----------



## William

Hi Ella 

If Fat Acceptance especially in news articles has nothing more to say about Fat Men beyond the fact that they do not suffer as much as Fat Women. then more damage is done than if they did not even mention Fat Men at all.

I have read many articles where Fat Men did not even merit a 1/4 paragraph in a multi-page article and most of that was about the greater acceptance of Fat Men.

Nothing that I am saying here reflects on or reduces the experiences of Fat Women.

William




Ella Bella said:


> Again, how does the fat acceptance movement minimize the issues that fat men face? You keep saying that but you are not backing it up with anything.
> 
> Not one time have I seen a woman tell a fat man to shut up and stop whining about some abuse he's suffered because of being fat. Also, society has nothing to do with what I feel is attractive. I like fat men and women, I also like skinny men and women. I dont like the skinny ones because society says its ok to be attracted to thin people and I dont like the fat ones just because they look like me.


----------



## Santaclear

wrestlingguy said:


> I like walruses, sorry..............or is it walri??



People. What is going here? 

Hi.

All of us have suffered in this thread, some more than others. I have suffered somewhat less than others, I'd say, only because I'm not part, really, of either of the two main suffering groups. And because I've only been reading the thread hit-or-miss and skimming over certain posts I also feel 
I've suffered less. I heard this was the place to hang out over the weekend.

Santaclear


----------



## butch

fwiw, I started a thread here on the main board as a response to this thread. I'm hoping it can be a positive response to some of the issues this thread has brought up.

I don't do linkies very well, but it should be easy to find. Thanks for your interest.


----------



## SparklingBBW

What about the Big Juicy Tomato? I haven't seen one single pic of a plump, juicy Big Tomato posted to either the Hot Boy or Hot Girl thread. Of course I haven't read either of those threads, but don't bother me with the details! I'm here to point out the grave injustice that is taking place across our country these days with regard to the outright REJECTION of big beautiful tomatoes! Nobody wants them anymore! I can't get them on hamburgers or even in a salad! The discrimination is global and systematic. All the big corporations are REFUSING to dish them out. I even went to a mexican restaurant and they brought out the chips and "salsa" to the table, and it was just a dish of some kind of tomato-ish water with onions, cilantro and peppers in it! Can you imagine? 

And what makes it worse is that a site like Dimensions, a site SUPPOSEDLY purported to be a community of people who all support the SA movement, NOBODY here has made one single mention of the blatant discrimination that has been purpetrated these past few weeks on the Big, Juicy and oh-so-delicious Tomato! If you people in the Salmonella Acceptace community can't spare even a smidgin of empathy and support to all the tomatoes in our community... (one second, Sammy is talking to me....yeah...uh-huh....Oh really? The S stands for size? Not Salmonella? Are you sure? Oh dear.) 

:blush:

Nevermind. 

Gena (channeling Emily Litella) 

View attachment 100.jpg


----------



## Fascinita

I miss this thread.


----------



## Shosh

Oh Yeah baby! The big juicy tomato really does things for me!:smitten:

Could it be possible that this thread could get so big and go on for so long that it will make my infamous thread fade into obscurity? Oh please G-d!
I am ready to hand over the title of "Most infamous thread" to another deserving recipient!


----------



## cute_obese_girl

William said:


> Can you please show me anywhere in this thread where I have attacked the Fat Women Posters in the Hot Boy Thread?? The most that I have said is that the aggregate of their choices is no where as rosy for Fat Men in regards to how accepted Fat Acceptance claims Fat Men to be.



William, I see what you're fighting for. I really do. I just don't think a thread created for fun and fantasy applies to real life issues like size acceptance. I don't believe that the Hot Boy Thread is a good representation of what women in general (fat or not) find attractive. There are millions of women out there that will say that Brad Pitt is hot (I don't happen to be one of them, but I digress). He's an actor, he's famous, they feel like they know him, but they don't. They can pretend he won't throw his dirty underwear on the floor for them to pick up, it's mystery, it's excitement. It's also nothing to build a relationship on. Among all those millions of women who find Brad Pitt hot, are women who go home to their husbands/boyfriends/partners. People they think are hot and lovable. And guess what...almost none of those people look like Brad Pitt.

I understand that you would like to see fat men more active and represented in the size acceptance movement. I agree. That would be good for fat men and fat people in general. I don't think any of the women here oppose that. What I'm left wondering, however, is:

*How would an increase of incidents where fat men are seen as nothing more than eye candy in a thread about fantasy really be a step forward in the acceptance of fat men?*

Women everywhere seem to be pleading, please don't objectify us. Take into account the whole person and the values that are more than skin deep. Yet, here you are making an argument for the opposite. We just don't get it.


----------



## stan_der_man

Fascinita said:


> I miss this thread.


Oooh... That reminds me Señorita Fascinita, I owe you a walrus sound.

Here ya go...

Whoops... My bad, that was the chimp sound. I'll keep lookin'...



Susannah said:


> ...
> Could it be possible that this thread could get so big and go on for so long that it will make my infamous thread fade into obscurity? Oh please G-d!
> I am ready to hand over the title of "Most infamous thread" to another deserving recipient!


Keep dreamin' Shoshieboo... not even close.  Your thread ran on for way more pages than this one. Hell, you even got the Webmaster all pissed off, and he's a pretty mild mannered guy from what I've heard... You got me beat there, and lord knows I've tried... Kudos to you on that one! :bow:

BTW... Here is a linkie-poo to Susanna's "infamous thread"  just for those who may have missed it...

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24545




NancyGirl74 said:


> NancyGirl74 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can't we all just get along?
> 
> I mean seriously. Aren't we tired of bickering yet? Lets just have a freaking group hug and be done with it! I'll even allow random ass groping during the hug...whaddya say?
> 
> 
> 
> I guess not.
Click to expand...


Come on everybody... Nancy is right. Let's let bygones be bygones... agree to disagree.


OK everybody...



c'mon everybody......... arms around each other...




















Coooooooommmmme Oooooooonnnnn! We can do it......!








































Ok... ok... if nobody else will put their arm around Carl, I'll do it. Sheesh!


















...ah SheeShee... er ah, I mean... Shoshie, would you mind putting your arm around William?









Please!?

He's not gonna give you cooties... c'mon!














Thanks.





OK there we go! Group hug! Thaaaaaaaats it...! ....... Now doesn't that feel good!?






OK... 1........ 2.......... 3........ BREAK! There we go!










William said:


> Ok
> 
> Here is a better search
> 
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22fat+men%22+%22fat+women%22+suffer&start=0&sa=Nhttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22fat+men%22+%22fat+women%22+suffer&start=0&sa=N
> 
> "Fat Men" "Fat Women" Suffer
> 
> William



... and William. I'm not necessarily doubting your point of view here. Ironically, you and I may agree on many things... As a matter of fact, I recently quoted something that you wrote to make a point in another thread (a point where I agreed with what you said... I'll go dig it up, it is something I want to discuss on Butch's thread anyway...)

The problem with the links you gave me here is that many of them are blogs and diaries. There are some newspaper articles, but they are more "perspective" type of articles than articles that can be substantiated statistically. Articles that are in newspapers or periodicals aren't necessarily that well researched. You are trying to substantiate your perspective with the unsubstantiated opinions of others. Articulate opinions, I'll grant you...

Do a Google search of "men are jerks"... You will find a plethora of blogs, diaries and even books on Amazon.com stating that "men are jerks". What if somebody who was saying that "man are jerks" threw this at you? Does this make that statement more believable?... Certainly not.

I grant you that you may have some valid points William, but you have yet to show quantifiable evidence of your position. If you were a lawyer, the judge would throw you out of their courtroom with evidence like this... if you were a scientist making a presentation to your peers, you wouldn't be taken seriously.

Do you see my point?




butch said:


> fwiw, I started a thread here on the main board as a response to this thread. I'm hoping it can be a positive response to some of the issues this thread has brought up.
> 
> I don't do linkies very well, but it should be easy to find. Thanks for your interest.



Oohkeey dokey... I'll see you guys later. I'm heading off to Butchies thread to see what's up.


I'll bring my matches and gasoline with me... 


Link to Butch's thread.


BTW... I only recently learned how to do this link stuff myself... I know, I'm kinda showin' off...


----------



## Shosh

Hey Stan,

Thanks for the link to the thread. Well Conrad forgave me long ago. I have really evolved so much as a person in the time I have been here.
Dims has been such a comfort and a haven for me.

Anyway I would give William and anybody else a big ole hug at anytime with pleasure as I am a serial hugger.


----------



## Friday

Maybe, just maybe, the reason that the problems fat men face in society gets less ink than the problems women face is because fat men are less denigrated and discriminated against then fat women? I mean, you don't see any fat chicks in bathing suits running around on Lost do you?


----------



## William

Hi Cute Obese Girl

You know what is so sad about this thread is all the lies and misinformation. All that I have ever said about the Hot Boy Thread is that it is a good representation of Society's value of body size. I have never said I wanted to see more Fat Men on the thread. I even went further and said that society did not have any aesthetic use for either Fat Men or Women.

This fact alone make many of the posts in this thread meaningless and a waste of time. Still somewhere in this thread as a little real communication.

William







cute_obese_girl said:


> William, I see what you're fighting for. I really do. I just don't think a thread created for fun and fantasy applies to real life issues like size acceptance. I don't believe that the Hot Boy Thread is a good representation of what women in general (fat or not) find attractive. There are millions of women out there that will say that Brad Pitt is hot (I don't happen to be one of them, but I digress). He's an actor, he's famous, they feel like they know him, but they don't. They can pretend he won't throw his dirty underwear on the floor for them to pick up, it's mystery, it's excitement. It's also nothing to build a relationship on. Among all those millions of women who find Brad Pitt hot, are women who go home to their husbands/boyfriends/partners. People they think are hot and lovable. And guess what...almost none of those people look like Brad Pitt.
> 
> I understand that you would like to see fat men more active and represented in the size acceptance movement. I agree. That would be good for fat men and fat people in general. I don't think any of the women here oppose that. What I'm left wondering, however, is:
> 
> *How would an increase of incidents where fat men are seen as nothing more than eye candy in a thread about fantasy really be a step forward in the acceptance of fat men?*
> 
> Women everywhere seem to be pleading, please don't objectify us. Take into account the whole person and the values that are more than skin deep. Yet, here you are making an argument for the opposite. We just don't get it.


----------



## William

Hi Stan

The Better Fat Blogs right now are the most vocal and news quoted fat sources and many of the Authors are published themselves. What is good is that most of them go beyond stereotypes of Fat Men and Women.

The claims that I made were not the result of a few Google searches or a narrow time period. I regularly read Fat Acceptance websites. The gender gap is part of the Fat Acceptance Folklore that is changing every day. The biggest threat to this growth is group-think which most of the Blogs have less of because of their open nature.

Until Organizations like NAAFA win back the respect of the Fat Community the speech strewn across the internet is what Fat Acceptance is.

William




fa_man_stan said:


> Oooh... That reminds me Señorita Fascinita, I owe you a walrus sound.
> 
> 
> Snip
> 
> 
> 
> ... and William. I'm not necessarily doubting your point of view here. Ironically, you and I may agree on many things... As a matter of fact, I recently quoted something that you wrote to make a point in another thread (a point where I agreed with what you said... I'll go dig it up, it is something I want to discuss on Butch's thread anyway...)
> 
> The problem with the links you gave me here is that many of them are blogs and diaries. There are some newspaper articles, but they are more "perspective" type of articles than articles that can be substantiated statistically. Articles that are in newspapers or periodicals aren't necessarily that well researched. You are trying to substantiate your perspective with the unsubstantiated opinions of others. Articulate opinions, I'll grant you...
> 
> Do a Google search of "men are jerks"... You will find a plethora of blogs, diaries and even books on Amazon.com stating that "men are jerks". What if somebody who was saying that "man are jerks" threw this at you? Does this make that statement more believable?... Certainly not.
> 
> I grant you that you may have some valid points William, but you have yet to show quantifiable evidence of your position. If you were a lawyer, the judge would throw you out of their courtroom with evidence like this... if you were a scientist making a presentation to your peers, you wouldn't be taken seriously.
> 
> Do you see my point?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW... I only recently learned how to do this link stuff myself... I know, I'm kinda showin' off...


----------



## LillyBBBW

Genarose54 said:


> What about the Big Juicy Tomato? I haven't seen one single pic of a plump, juicy Big Tomato posted to either the Hot Boy or Hot Girl thread. Of course I haven't read either of those threads, but don't bother me with the details! I'm here to point out the grave injustice that is taking place across our country these days with regard to the outright REJECTION of big beautiful tomatoes! Nobody wants them anymore! I can't get them on hamburgers or even in a salad! The discrimination is global and systematic. All the big corporations are REFUSING to dish them out. I even went to a mexican restaurant and they brought out the chips and "salsa" to the table, and it was just a dish of some kind of tomato-ish water with onions, cilantro and peppers in it! Can you imagine?
> 
> And what makes it worse is that a site like Dimensions, a site SUPPOSEDLY purported to be a community of people who all support the SA movement, NOBODY here has made one single mention of the blatant discrimination that has been purpetrated these past few weeks on the Big, Juicy and oh-so-delicious Tomato! If you people in the Salmonella Acceptace community can't spare even a smidgin of empathy and support to all the tomatoes in our community... (one second, Sammy is talking to me....yeah...uh-huh....Oh really? The S stands for size? Not Salmonella? Are you sure? Oh dear.)
> 
> :blush:
> 
> Nevermind.
> 
> Gena (channeling Emily Litella)



Screw that! Those big jiucy tomaters require too much maintenence. If you leave 'em out too long they get rotten and bitter. They become over ripened and when you cut into 'em the leave a red drippy mess that stains your clothes and is difficult to pick up. Much more difficult than the smaller tomatas that are much easier to handle and socially more acceptable. I love big juicy tomatas! :wubu: But not for me thanks.


----------



## William

Hi Friday

I have been around Fat Acceptance a long time and there has always been this confrontation of Fat Acceptance in General telling Fat Men that their problems are not that great and Fat Men responding that they have more issues and a harder time than Fat Acceptance will acknowledge.

What is great that I a seen some great exchanges of thoughts on the Blogs, but they are like empathic islands in Fat Acceptance right now.

I am more concerned about the lack of Fat Men on the pubic beaches and pools than on a TV Show. I have never even watched "Lost" 

William



Friday said:


> Maybe, just maybe, the reason that the problems fat men face in society gets less ink than the problems women face is because fat men are less denigrated and discriminated against then fat women? I mean, you don't see any fat chicks in bathing suits running around on Lost do you?


----------



## Rowan

MMmmmmm cheeseburger pizza...and only cost a dollar.

oh wait...was i supposed to be bitching and moaning too? My bad....


----------



## LillyBBBW

William said:


> Hi Stan
> 
> The Better Fat Blogs right now are the most vocal and news quoted fat sources and many of the Authors are published themselves. What is good is that most of them go beyond stereotypes of Fat Men and Women.
> 
> The claims that I made were not the result of a few Google searches or a narrow time period. I regularly read Fat Acceptance websites. The gender gap is part of the Fat Acceptance Folklore that is changing every day. The biggest threat to this growth is group-think which most of the Blogs have less of because of their open nature.
> 
> Until Organizations like NAAFA win back the respect of the Fat Community the speech strewn across the internet is what Fat Acceptance is.
> 
> William



Whatever Googles up about just about any subject based on what is written in blogs doesn't necessarily mean that it's true. You can google things about racism, the war in Iraq, insane persecution complex, president Bush and all kinds of common thought will arise for those but none of that proves that it's true -- just that it is a common held belief. If you posess one of these common beliefs you have to make you argument with credible evidence, not with, "Everybody thinks so," evidence. 

Also to address your initial point. As a fat black woman I could claim second class citizenship by saying, "Look!! Fat black men more than likely find thin women, white women, fat white women and other men most attractive -- therefore what I say and what comes up on Google is true!" It's very bad science that deliberately marginalizes a much larger scope of society who doesn't feel that way at all. At best it's extremely rude, at worst it makes me guilty of the exact kind of racism I'm accusing others of and is even more exclusionary. I don't think it is your intent to insult our thinner sisters who are here to represent but it seems to do so by default. If you want to improve size acceptance it is better to do so by including those who are there to support us and not finding ways to divide us further. This "US" and "THEM" doesn't help things at all.


----------



## William

Hi Lilly 

I am about to go out, but to stop this here before it spreads. 

I have never said anything about women of any sizes in this thread and I certainly did not insult thinner women????????????????????

Thinner women also have a hard time in Fat Acceptance.

I am sorry but it seems there is no way not to make people think with a us vs. them mentality when you ask them to think of BHM as more than Fat Men that receive less abuse than Fat Women. I think that I consistently used the term Fat Acceptance as the problem and that is not singling out one group of people.

William





LillyBBBW said:


> Whatever Googles up about just about any subject based on what is written in blogs doesn't necessarily mean that it's true. You can google things about racism, the war in Iraq, insane persecution complex, president Bush and all kinds of common thought will arise for those but none of that proves that it's true -- just that it is a common held belief. If you posess one of these common beliefs you have to make you argument with credible evidence, not with, "Everybody thinks so," evidence.
> 
> Also to address your initial point. As a fat black woman I could claim second class citizenship by saying, "Look!! Fat black men more than likely find thin women, white women, fat white women and other men most attractive -- therefore what I say and what comes up on Google is true!" It's very bad science that deliberately marginalizes a much larger scope of society who doesn't feel that way at all. At best it's extremely rude, at worst it makes me guilty of the exact kind of racism I'm accusing others of and is even more exclusionary. I don't think it is your intent to insult our thinner sisters who are here to represent but it seems to do so by default. If you want to improve size acceptance it is better to do so by including those who are there to support us and not finding ways to divide us further. This "US" and "THEM" doesn't help things at all.


----------



## olwen

William said:


> Hi Lilly
> 
> I am about to go out, but to stop this here before it spreads.
> 
> I have never said anything about women of any sizes in this thread and I certainly did not insult thinner women????????????????????
> 
> Thinner women also have a hard time in Fat Acceptance.
> 
> I am sorry but it seems there is no way not to make people think with a us vs. them mentality when you ask them to think of BHM as more than Fat Men that receive less abuse than Fat Women. I think that I consistently used the term Fat Acceptance as the problem and that is not singling out one group of people.
> 
> William



William, I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm saying this out of frustration with you right now:

You're not articulating yourself very well here in this thread. We all want to have a real discussion with you about your feelings and observations, but you're making that difficult. You are leaving lots of room for "misinterpretation" and 'misrepresentation" on our parts. You've consistently and repeatedly made the claim that fat men are under-represented. Okay, now you need to tell us why by using legitimate evidence. Anecdotal evidence is fine and appropriate here but referencing blogs is not because they do not necessarily represent the real world. Just saying there isn't enough of x and not enough of y will not make more y's appear. Do you get what I'm saying?








So much for that horse's grave....


----------



## LillyBBBW

William said:


> Hi Lilly
> 
> I am about to go out, but to stop this here before it spreads.
> 
> I have never said anything about women of any sizes in this thread and I certainly did not insult thinner women????????????????????
> 
> Thinner women also have a hard time in Fat Acceptance.
> 
> I am sorry but it seems there is no way not to make people think with a us vs. them mentality when you ask them to think of BHM as more than Fat Men that receive less abuse than Fat Women. I think that I consistently used the term Fat Acceptance as the problem and that is not singling out one group of people.
> 
> William



Be well as you go about your day William. What I'm trying to say is that even though you don't SAY these things, your theories and arguments imply these things. By using the choices made in the Hot Boy thread to prove that fat men are low on the totem pole of what women find attractive is just unfair. You are talking just ONE demographic of women. If I use the demographic of how many fat men find fat women exclusively attractive to prove something the results would be similar: very small in number. However if you add to that the number of thin men, fat women and thin women who find BBW's exclusively to their liking that number goes up considerably. 

The number increase probably would not console many fat women who find themselves passed over in every corner of the globe generally speaking. But the truth is, there are plenty of men I meet in life who admire me in some way or another. The problem is I generally don't have a preference for the kinds of men most willing to come forward. It would be very easy to sigh gloomily and say, "There are no men around that like my type," but this is simply not true. Men within the demographic of what I DO like who are attracted to me may be far and few between but that's just the way it is. It doesn't prove anything other that what we already know: The dating game is hard. The same could be said for blondes for example. The desirability for blondes among other blondes may not be much to write home about but does this prove that blondes are second class citizens overall? The common held belief is that blondes have way more fun than the rest of us, that is until you ask a blonde what they think of all this hoohah. They'll say the same as everyone else: dating is hard. That is in spite of the fact that blondes are predominantly represented in the media image of what is unanimously considered beautiful and perfect. This doesn't make it true.

So yes if you are only focusing on fat people -- fat men and fat women -- you will see that fat men are less likely to be attracted exclusively to other fat women and vice versa. Does this prove that there is something unkosher about fat acceptance or society? I personally don't think so. I think that making a fuss over these details doesn't help at all.


----------



## LillyBBBW

olwen said:


> William, I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm saying this out of frustration with you right now:
> 
> You're not articulating yourself very well here in this thread. We all want to have a real discussion with you about your feelings and observations, but you're making that difficult. You are leaving lots of room for "misinterpretation" and 'misrepresentation" on our parts. You've consistently and repeatedly made the claim that fat men are under-represented. Okay, now you need to tell us why by using legitimate evidence. Anecdotal evidence is fine and appropriate here but referencing blogs is not because they do not necessarily represent the real world. Just saying there isn't enough of x and not enough of y will not make more y's appear. Do you get what I'm saying?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *So much for that horse's grave...*.



The good in me wants to keep trying. You'll all be pleased to know I'm almost out of gas and on the verge of giving up.


----------



## wrestlingguy

LillyBBBW said:


> The good in me wants to keep trying. You'll all be pleased to know I'm almost out of gas and on the verge of giving up.



No, no.......please don't give up. I think it was on page 20, when everyone thought the thread was dead that someone said something, and I swore the thread would go on for another 20 pages.

God,I hate to be wrong.


----------



## wrestlingguy

LillyBBBW said:


> Be well as you go about your day William. What I'm trying to say is that even though you don't SAY these things, your theories and arguments imply these things. By using the choices made in the Hot Boy thread to prove that fat men are low on the totem pole of what women find attractive is just unfair. You are talking just ONE demographic of women. If I use the demographic of how many fat men find fat women exclusively attractive to prove something the results would be similar: very small in number. However if you add to that the number of thin men, fat women and thin women who find BBW's exclusively to their liking that number goes up considerably.
> 
> The number increase probably would not console many fat women who find themselves passed over in every corner of the globe generally speaking. But the truth is, there are plenty of men I meet in life who admire me in some way or another. The problem is I generally don't have a preference for the kinds of men most willing to come forward. It would be very easy to sigh gloomily and say, "There are no men around that like my type," but this is simply not true. Men within the demographic of what I DO like who are attracted to me may be far and few between but that's just the way it is. It doesn't prove anything other that what we already know: The dating game is hard. The same could be said for blondes for example. The desirability for blondes among other blondes may not be much to write home about but does this prove that blondes are second class citizens overall? The common held belief is that blondes have way more fun than the rest of us, that is until you ask a blonde what they think of all this hoohah. They'll say the same as everyone else: dating is hard. That is in spite of the fact that blondes are predominantly represented in the media image of what is unanimously considered beautiful and perfect. This doesn't make it true.
> 
> So yes if you are only focusing on fat people -- fat men and fat women -- you will see that fat men are less likely to be attracted exclusively to other fat women and vice versa. Does this prove that there is something unkosher about fat acceptance or society? I personally don't think so. I think that making a fuss over these details doesn't help at all.



Thank you for pointing this all out, Lilly. I want to talk about fat PEOPLE, then get into fat men, in discussing what is desirable.

Think back 30 years ago. If your mom was fat, think about the abuse that she took, and think about the possibility that your dad just may have not found her very attractive due to her weight, and pressure from his buddies, who all wanted the trophy wife. There were a handful of FA's back in the day, like maybe Conrad & a few other guys. (Thank God for them)

Now think about today. There is still pressure on a lot of guys to find the trophy wife, but more & more guys are expressing their preference for fat women. Fat women, at least on the interner, are getting more positive attention than they did 30, even 10 years ago. It didn't happen overnight, friends.

Now, let's talk about fat men. Is it just possible that the attractiveness to fat men is just a little behind in the learning curve? Is it possible that someone amongst the FFA's is the Conrad of BHM's going forward? Just think about that for a moment. We see fat men on TV (not just on LOST), and I do think there are more fat men going to the beach and not being intimidated by the "fat haterz"

Blogs notwithstanding, if there is an element of truth to what William is saying, my theory is that his point night be moot in several years. Just be patient, and keep fighting the fight.


----------



## William

Hi Olwen

I have only made claims the handling and treatment of Fat Men in Fat Acceptance, why would I access Blogs outside of Fat Acceptance or the "real world"????

You may accept that Fat Men are under and misrepresented in Fat Acceptance, but you are the minority in this group, the numerous come backs to my posts are proof.

How can I proof my point, there are tons of Fat Acceptance internet posts in the vein that I mention. They are plenty of published Fat Acceptance Books that do little more in regards to Fat Men than state that they receive less abuse. What more can I say?????

Just now I was accused of insulting thin Women and I am wondering where this came from???

William










olwen said:


> William, I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm saying this out of frustration with you right now:
> 
> You're not articulating yourself very well here in this thread. We all want to have a real discussion with you about your feelings and observations, but you're making that difficult. You are leaving lots of room for "misinterpretation" and 'misrepresentation" on our parts. You've consistently and repeatedly made the claim that fat men are under-represented. Okay, now you need to tell us why by using legitimate evidence. Anecdotal evidence is fine and appropriate here but referencing blogs is not because they do not necessarily represent the real world. Just saying there isn't enough of x and not enough of y will not make more y's appear. Do you get what I'm saying?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So much for that horse's grave....


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

LillyBBBW said:


> The good in me wants to keep trying. You'll all be pleased to know I'm almost out of gas and on the verge of giving up.



Lol Lilly, I got out last night. Why? Not because I am out of gas...but because I made my points...over and over. Enough is enough...I believe he understands a heck of a lot better than he portends. 
He's just stubborn and he intentionally ignores some posts...selecting only those that he thinks will allow him to repeat his diatribe. 

One thing this thread has NOT done....it hasn't shown how women posting pics of attractive men 'proves' that BHMs are not given consideration by "fat acceptance". It is also crystal clear to me that this is really about men not liking outspoken fat women on the boards. 
We are not their mothers that are here to "take care of them" nor or we here to lie and tell them we find them attractive if we don't. 
Everyone here is over 18 aka an adult. That title comes with responsibility...like it or not.


----------



## olwen

William said:


> Hi Olwen
> 
> I have only made claims the handling and treatment of Fat Men in Fat Acceptance, why would I access Blogs outside of Fat Acceptance or the "real world"????
> 
> *because the fat acceptance movement exists in the real world, not in a fat bubble. Last time I checked I live in the real world. So do the rest of us.*
> 
> You may accept that Fat Men are under and misrepresented in Fat Acceptance, but you are the minority in this group, the numerous come backs to my posts are proof. We all hear what you are saying, but you seem to have ignored some of our responses to you. Rather you've been selective about what you want to hear. You see comebacks and I see constructive criticism.
> 
> How can I proof my point, there are tons of Fat Acceptance internet posts in the vein that I mention. They are plenty of published Fat Acceptance Books that do little more in regards to Fat Men than state that they receive less abuse. What more can I say?????This is your argument and your statements. The burden of proof is on you.
> 
> Just now I was accused of insulting thin Women and I am wondering where this came from??? There was no insulting at all. You read into it what you wanted.
> 
> William




:::bangs head against the wall::: I think I may need a padded room soon...


----------



## Rojodi

<shaking head>

As a fat man, I can talk about this. I have not seen as many women accept me as "Hot and Sexy" as there have been men accepting a BBW as what she is: damn hot! But I will NOT say that we are not accepted at all. As my observation - not generalizing - women aren't going to walk up to a man and tell them they are hot, nor are they going to go on the forums and say we are. 

:doh::doh:


----------



## William

Hi Lilly 

I refuse to be drawn into debates about things that I have not even said.

All that I have ever said about the Hot Boy Thread is that it is a fair representation of Societal values (especially in regards to weight). I made this comment on a thread discussing experiences of Fat Men and Women. I used it as a visual aid and that is all. At the time before Carl's thread(this thread) the make up of the Hot Boy Thread was so one sided that it made a good point. 

Anything else was brought in by others in this thread and you should question their thinking. 

The only reason that I entered this thread was because the intent of my original post was already being spin-doctored (as a attack) on this thread.

William



LillyBBBW said:


> Be well as you go about your day William. What I'm trying to say is that even though you don't SAY these things, your theories and arguments imply these things. By using the choices made in the Hot Boy thread to prove that fat men are low on the totem pole of what women find attractive is just unfair. You are talking just ONE demographic of women. If I use the demographic of how many fat men find fat women exclusively attractive to prove something the results would be similar: very small in number. However if you add to that the number of thin men, fat women and thin women who find BBW's exclusively to their liking that number goes up considerably.
> 
> The number increase probably would not console many fat women who find themselves passed over in every corner of the globe generally speaking. But the truth is, there are plenty of men I meet in life who admire me in some way or another. The problem is I generally don't have a preference for the kinds of men most willing to come forward. It would be very easy to sigh gloomily and say, "There are no men around that like my type," but this is simply not true. Men within the demographic of what I DO like who are attracted to me may be far and few between but that's just the way it is. It doesn't prove anything other that what we already know: The dating game is hard. The same could be said for blondes for example. The desirability for blondes among other blondes may not be much to write home about but does this prove that blondes are second class citizens overall? The common held belief is that blondes have way more fun than the rest of us, that is until you ask a blonde what they think of all this hoohah. They'll say the same as everyone else: dating is hard. That is in spite of the fact that blondes are predominantly represented in the media image of what is unanimously considered beautiful and perfect. This doesn't make it true.
> 
> So yes if you are only focusing on fat people -- fat men and fat women -- you will see that fat men are less likely to be attracted exclusively to other fat women and vice versa. Does this prove that there is something unkosher about fat acceptance or society? I personally don't think so. I think that making a fuss over these details doesn't help at all.


----------



## LillyBBBW

wrestlingguy said:


> Thank you for pointing this all out, Lilly. I want to talk about fat PEOPLE, then get into fat men, in discussing what is desirable.
> 
> Think back 30 years ago. If your mom was fat, think about the abuse that she took, and think about the possibility that your dad just may have not found her very attractive due to her weight, and pressure from his buddies, who all wanted the trophy wife. There were a handful of FA's back in the day, like maybe Conrad & a few other guys. (Thank God for them)
> 
> Now think about today. There is still pressure on a lot of guys to find the trophy wife, but more & more guys are expressing their preference for fat women. Fat women, at least on the interner, are getting more positive attention than they did 30, even 10 years ago. It didn't happen overnight, friends.
> 
> Now, let's talk about fat men. Is it just possible that the attractiveness to fat men is just a little behind in the learning curve? Is it possible that someone amongst the FFA's is the Conrad of BHM's going forward? Just think about that for a moment. We see fat men on TV (not just on LOST), and I do think there are more fat men going to the beach and not being intimidated by the "fat haterz"
> 
> Blogs notwithstanding, if there is an element of truth to what William is saying, my theory is that his point night be moot in several years. Just be patient, and keep fighting the fight.



I find many fat man attractive. I don't simply like a guy because he's fat or because he isn't, but fat men are included in what I find hot. A lot of women across the board are similarly inclined. My niece, a svelt woman of conventional beauty, dates fat men exclusively and always has without much notice or fanfare till recently. Someone pointed it out and it was a topic for a short while but has since become uninteresting.

As a fat girl growing up however I was told that only a certain 'type' of man would find me attractive. To prove people wrong there was this quest to find some hot guy to like me therefore proving that I am a worthwhile person. There were a lot of guys I avoided dating and other guys I picked up with and tried to make things work even though he called me names, cheated on me and was verbally abusive. Didn't matter, I had a conventionally hot boyfriend so foo on all the doomsday prophets who said I'd never amount to anything. Bear in mind, fat men were included in what I and others deemed hot. I've dated fat men who were considered cool, attractive and well sought after by women of all persuasions -- much to my dismay of course. It is possible that for some women with something to prove fat men would be off limits. That has not been my experience though.

So yeah, there might be 'something' going on moreso among fat women and other non-conventionally beautiful women than any other demographic because of the pressure to 'date up' as one might say. One can't take this phenom however, magnify it 400 times and use it as a reflection of societal values nor deny fat women the right to express their desires because it's assumed there's a deliberate bias there. In a place dedicated to fat acceptance you would think women inclined to favor fat men would feel free to do so even if they're in the closet everywhere else. I don't see the Hot Boy thread as being proof that fat men are second class citizens in fat acceptance. It only proves that most fat chicks who participated in that thread think thin men are hot.

Otherwise I don't think anyone has out and out said that fat men are not included in fat acceptance or that their issues are not as important as a woman's. Fat women are indeed the more prominant voices heard in fat acceptance but I think that is due to the sheer numbers. Men are not exactly lined up in droves looking to be a part of it. This goes for fat men and FAs too. There just isn't a lot of interest among males. The only time I ever hear men say anything about fat acceptance it is to say how unnessesary it is or how hot the girls are that attend the social events. Fat men should feel encouraged to cite an instance of job descrimination, talk about how hard it is to find clothes that cater to their size, talk about the stares they get from people when they go to the grocery store or to a restaurant to order a meal. These are legitimate claims that no one has ever disputed or denied on Google or anywhere else. 

I don't know why fat men never raise these issues. The idea that fat women won't allow them to or that they don't take it seriously just doesn't make sense. There's no evidence of that at all. The idea that fat women have it worse is a widely accepted truth across the board but this doesn't mean the fat man's concerns are non existant. They are non existant merely because fat men are sorely underrepresented in topics that address these issues. Is this the fault of the women though? Is the participation of fat men contingent upon fat women declaring them imperial gods of perfection above all others? If so, is it fair for fat women to expect the same from fat men? Are these expectations indicative of fat justice or is it all just a reverse form of restrictive expectations for fat people just because they're fat? Are the thin people who prefer fat irrelevant when it comes to fat acceptance? If so, why? 

In my opinion sexual preference bears no relevance at all in fat acceptance. It's about human dignity and fair treatment, not sexual ideals being promoted one way or the other. This misses the point entirely and merely trades one set of biases for another that marginalizes people both thin and fat. Using it to tip the scales in favor of fat men doesn't help to make the point of fat discrimination moot, it merely redefines it in another way.


----------



## Shosh

LillyBBBW said:


> Whatever Googles up about just about any subject based on what is written in blogs doesn't necessarily mean that it's true. You can google things about racism, the war in Iraq, insane persecution complex, president Bush and all kinds of common thought will arise for those but none of that proves that it's true -- just that it is a common held belief. If you posess one of these common beliefs you have to make you argument with credible evidence, not with, "Everybody thinks so," evidence.
> 
> Also to address your initial point. As a fat black woman I could claim second class citizenship by saying, "Look!! Fat black men more than likely find thin women, white women, fat white women and other men most attractive -- therefore what I say and what comes up on Google is true!" It's very bad science that deliberately marginalizes a much larger scope of society who doesn't feel that way at all. At best it's extremely rude, at worst it makes me guilty of the exact kind of racism I'm accusing others of and is even more exclusionary. I don't think it is your intent to insult our thinner sisters who are here to represent but it seems to do so by default. If you want to improve size acceptance it is better to do so by including those who are there to support us and not finding ways to divide us further. This "US" and "THEM" doesn't help things at all.



You must spread rep around before giving it to LillyBBBW again. Blah blah.
Well said. Can somebody rep her for me please?


----------



## LillyBBBW

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Lol Lilly, I got out last night. Why? Not because I am out of gas...but because I made my points...over and over. Enough is enough...I believe he understands a heck of a lot better than he portends.
> He's just stubborn and he intentionally ignores some posts...selecting only those that he thinks will allow him to repeat his diatribe.
> 
> One thing this thread has NOT done....it hasn't shown how women posting pics of attractive men 'proves' that BHMs are not given consideration by "fat acceptance". It is also crystal clear to me that this is really about men not liking outspoken fat women on the boards.
> We are not their mothers that are here to "take care of them" nor or we here to lie and tell them we find them attractive if we don't.
> Everyone here is over 18 aka an adult. That title comes with responsibility...like it or not.



*sigh* You are right GEF, as you usually are. Ok, I give up. There's nothing new I can add that I haven't already. I'm unsubscribing.

HA-ha, you lose your bet wrestlingguy - SUCKUH!!!


----------



## Friday

William said:


> Hi Olwen
> 
> I have only made claims the handling and treatment of Fat Men in Fat Acceptance, why would I access Blogs outside of Fat Acceptance or the "real world"????
> 
> You may accept that Fat Men are under and misrepresented in Fat Acceptance, but you are the minority in this group, the numerous come backs to my posts are proof.
> 
> How can I proof my point, there are tons of Fat Acceptance internet posts in the vein that I mention. They are plenty of published Fat Acceptance Books that do little more in regards to Fat Men than state that they receive less abuse. What more can I say?????
> 
> Just now I was accused of insulting thin Women and I am wondering where this came from???
> 
> William




That's the problem in a nutshell William, I don't think you're really dealing with the real world. Several people have tried to point you in the same direction and you keep blithely ignoring them all the while meandering down a very narrow and selective path that bypasses anything that doesn't agree with your arguments and complaints. This isn't a 'discussion'. It's you trying to wear people down with repitition until they agree with you. Unlikely to happen in a crowd as strong minded as this one.


----------



## olwen

LillyBBBW said:


> I find many fat man attractive. I don't simply like a guy because he's fat or because he isn't, but fat men are included in what I find hot. A lot of women across the board are similarly inclined. My niece, a svelt woman of conventional beauty, dates fat men exclusively and always has without much notice or fanfare till recently. Someone pointed it out and it was a topic for a short while but has since become uninteresting.
> 
> As a fat girl growing up however I was told that only a certain 'type' of man would find me attractive. To prove people wrong there was this quest to find some hot guy to like me therefore proving that I am a worthwhile person. There were a lot of guys I avoided dating and other guys I picked up with and tried to make things work even though he called me names, cheated on me and was verbally abusive. Didn't matter, I had a conventionally hot boyfriend so foo on all the doomsday prophets who said I'd never amount to anything. Bear in mind, fat men were included in what I and others deemed hot. I've dated fat men who were considered cool, attractive and well sought after by women of all persuasions -- much to my dismay of course. It is possible that for some women with something to prove fat men would be off limits. That has not been my experience though.
> 
> So yeah, there might be 'something' going on moreso among fat women and other non-conventionally beautiful women than any other demographic because of the pressure to 'date up' as one might say. One can't take this phenom however, magnify it 400 times and use it as a reflection of societal values nor deny fat women the right to express their desires because it's assumed there's a deliberate bias there. In a place dedicated to fat acceptance you would think women inclined to favor fat men would feel free to do so even if they're in the closet everywhere else. I don't see the Hot Boy thread as being proof that fat men are second class citizens in fat acceptance. It only proves that most fat chicks who participated in that thread think thin men are hot.
> 
> Otherwise I don't think anyone has out and out said that fat men are not included in fat acceptance or that their issues are not as important as a woman's. Fat women are indeed the more prominant voices heard in fat acceptance but I think that is due to the sheer numbers. Men are not exactly lined up in droves looking to be a part of it. This goes for fat men and FAs too. There just isn't a lot of interest among males. The only time I ever hear men say anything about fat acceptance it is to say how unnessesary it is or how hot the girls are that attend the social events. Fat men should feel encouraged to cite an instance of job descrimination, talk about how hard it is to find clothes that cater to their size, talk about the stares they get from people when they go to the grocery store or to a restaurant to order a meal. These are legitimate claims that no one has ever disputed or denied on Google or anywhere else.
> 
> I don't know why fat men never raise these issues. The idea that fat women won't allow them to or that they don't take it seriously just doesn't make sense. There's no evidence of that at all. The idea that fat women have it worse is a widely accepted truth across the board but this doesn't mean the fat man's concerns are non existant. They are non existant merely because fat men are sorely underrepresented in topics that address these issues. Is this the fault of the women though? Is the participation of fat men contingent upon fat women declaring them imperial gods of perfection above all others? If so, is it fair for fat women to expect the same from fat men? Are these expectations indicative of fat justice or is it all just a reverse form of restrictive expectations for fat people just because they're fat? Are the thin people who prefer fat irrelevant when it comes to fat acceptance? If so, why?
> 
> In my opinion sexual preference bears no relevance at all in fat acceptance. It's about human dignity and fair treatment, not sexual ideals being promoted one way or the other. This misses the point entirely and merely trades one set of biases for another that marginalizes people both thin and fat. Using it to tip the scales in favor of fat men doesn't help to make the point of fat discrimination moot, it merely redefines it in another way.



Lilly, ever the voice of reason. This post is awesome. I'm out of rep for you


----------



## CAMellie

Lilly has been repped...and thanked.


----------



## William

Hi Friday

I think that WrestlingGuy made a good point that this problem is clearing up and there are Blogs out there that are going past "old time Fat Acceptance". There is a lag in the readers incorporation of this recent talk. Too often I see a reader of a Blog comment that it is OK for men to be Fat. 

People ask me to provide links, this is a group conscious in Fat Acceptance, even searching for a few links would be a pain. All that I can suggest is keep a eye open for how much material are in comments about Fat Men in articles around around Fat Acceptance. Think about if they contain enough information to be more than just a stereotype.

The only repetition that I have used was to reply to posts that claimed that I said things that were not my words, repetition of what I did say was the best answer for that.

William






Friday said:


> That's the problem in a nutshell William, I don't think you're really dealing with the real world. Several people have tried to point you in the same direction and you keep blithely ignoring them all the while meandering down a very narrow and selective path that bypasses anything that doesn't agree with your arguments and complaints. This isn't a 'discussion'. It's you trying to wear people down with repitition until they agree with you. Unlikely to happen in a crowd as strong minded as this one.


----------



## Shosh

CAMellie said:


> Lilly has been repped...and thanked.



Todah Rabah.:kiss2:


----------



## CAMellie

Susannah said:


> Todah Rabah.:kiss2:




Al-Lo-Davar :kiss2:


----------



## Fascinita

All I know is that laying the purported problems of Fat Acceptace at the feet of a bunch of fat women who start a thread so they can have a little old good time won't get any of this solved.

If BHM feel that "more needs to be done," then they'd best get started "doing more."

No one can do your work for you. There are people who will be happy to *work alongside* you, to help you "build your house," so to speak. But you have to lift the first finger. And I hardly think that the way to make alliances is to alienate your neighbors by bickering with them.

Yes, fat women are well represented in the ranks of Fat Acceptance, but maybe that is because fat women have been the pioneers, the first to stand up and demand respect and to *work* actively toward it.

I would think that might be something to admire and emulate. 

You have to be willing to do the work, and I don't mean *the work of nagging your older sister to go do your work for you.* If your attitude is one of belligerent demands, rather than cooperative action, who is going to want to help you? 

Your work and your gains are going to remain unaccomplished as long as your attitude is one of blaming those closest to you for your failure to get ahead.


----------



## LillyBBBW

William said:


> Hi Friday
> 
> I think that WrestlingGuy made a good point that this problem is clearing up and there are Blogs out there that are going past "old time Fat Acceptance". There is a lag in the readers incorporation of this recent talk. Too often I see a reader of a Blog comment that it is OK for men to be Fat.
> 
> People ask me to provide links, this is a group conscious in Fat Acceptance, even searching for a few links would be a pain. All that I can suggest is keep a eye open for how much material are in comments about Fat Men in articles around around Fat Acceptance. Think about if they contain enough information to be more than just a stereotype.
> 
> The only repetition that I have used was to reply to posts that claimed that I said things that were not my words, repetition of what I did say was the best answer for that.
> 
> William



William if you don't mind I'd like to ask you a question. I was going to go away but I'm interested in what everyone has to say on this and not just you so people should feel free to contribute.

Two things I've often heard you mention in regards to fat acceptance. One is that a Google search of 'bbw' turns up nothing but sex sites. This would lead one to believe that bbw's are merely viewed as sex objects on the internet. The other is the current topic of discussion, that according to the choices made in the Hot Boy thread it would appear that fat men are not widely viewed as sex objects, not only in society as a whole but among fat women specifically. 

Setting the arguments aside on the truth in those statements, I'm wondering how you and others view the sex appeal of fat. Do you (collective) believe it helps or hurts size acceptance?


----------



## mossystate

I think anything and everything that addresses who a person is and what makes up their total...equals positive.

Do I think it can seem like newly found freedoms gone wild...yeah..a little. The wanting to be desired and to desire is beyond normal. I believe it is good to back up off of it a bit and see not only those who are marginalized within a marginalized group, in terms of this issue, but also to make sure that the overall messages are not always covered in.......hot.

I said in a previous post that being desired sexually is not always what a person wants..at least not to be mostly seen as a potential________. I think some of the ' support ' of fat women, from some, is only as solid as her smiling at ' you '. 

I know that I personally need to do more to beat the drum of Size Acceptance.


----------



## wrestlingguy

LillyBBBW said:


> William if you don't mind I'd like to ask you a question. I was going to go away but I'm interested in what everyone has to say on this and not just you so people should feel free to contribute.
> 
> Two things I've often heard you mention in regards to fat acceptance. One is that a Google search of 'bbw' turns up nothing but sex sites. This would lead one to believe that bbw's are merely viewed as sex objects on the internet. The other is the current topic of discussion, that according to the choices made in the Hot Boy thread it would appear that fat men are not widely viewed as sex objects, not only in society as a whole but among fat women specifically.
> 
> Setting the arguments aside on the truth in those statements, I'm wondering how you and others view the sex appeal of fat. Do you (collective) believe it helps or hurts size acceptance?



Excellent question! I think it's something I've always wondered about others. For my experience I think the sex appeal of fat has brought me here, and to other sites, where I have come to better understand the fat acceptance movement, and size acceptance in general. While I still have some prejudices that need some work by me to lose (I hate idiots, and as far as I know, there is no idiot acceptance movement), I have learned understanding of what fat people go through, and have become more vocal over the years (not just here, but on many other sites) about just that.

Thanks for coming back to this thread, Lilly. 13 pages to go, Suckah!


----------



## LillyBBBW

wrestlingguy said:


> Excellent question! I think it's something I've always wondered about others. For my experience I think the sex appeal of fat has brought me here, and to other sites, where I have come to better understand the fat acceptance movement, and size acceptance in general. While I still have some prejudices that need some work by me to lose (I hate idiots, and as far as I know, there is no idiot acceptance movement), I have learned understanding of what fat people go through, and have become more vocal over the years (not just here, but on many other sites) about just that.
> 
> Thanks for coming back to this thread, Lilly. 13 pages to go, Suckah!



My 24 hours aren't up yet, but all in due time. In due time. *taps fingers together a la Mr. Burns*


----------



## William

Hi Lilly 

I think that the sexual expressions and flirting that goes on in Fat Acceptance is empowering and fun for people. 

I also know that causes a divide in Fat Acceptance with the more Feminist Areas viewing anything with Fat Admiration and photo spreads as "illlll".

The different results that you get from Googling Fat Women and BBW is caused internally in Fat Acceptance from activity in Fat Acceptance. When I say activity in Fat Acceptance, I mean that the porno dealer's Target Market is in Fat Acceptance. 

Now even the words "fat women" is being sexualized, I hope that we do not end up having to using Obese Women to find serious information.

The Hot Boy Thread is too small to be picked up by Google and I never said it was a internal Fat Acceptance stance, only that it was good representation of what Society feels about Fat Men or any Fat Person. This fact was repeatedly left out of the conversation here.

William




LillyBBBW said:


> William if you don't mind I'd like to ask you a question. I was going to go away but I'm interested in what everyone has to say on this and not just you so people should feel free to contribute.
> 
> Two things I've often heard you mention in regards to fat acceptance. One is that a Google search of 'bbw' turns up nothing but sex sites. This would lead one to believe that bbw's are merely viewed as sex objects on the internet. The other is the current topic of discussion, that according to the choices made in the Hot Boy thread it would appear that fat men are not widely viewed as sex objects, not only in society as a whole but among fat women specifically.
> 
> Setting the arguments aside on the truth in those statements, I'm wondering how you and others view the sex appeal of fat. Do you (collective) believe it helps or hurts size acceptance?


----------



## butch

LillyBBBW said:


> William if you don't mind I'd like to ask you a question. I was going to go away but I'm interested in what everyone has to say on this and not just you so people should feel free to contribute.
> 
> Two things I've often heard you mention in regards to fat acceptance. One is that a Google search of 'bbw' turns up nothing but sex sites. This would lead one to believe that bbw's are merely viewed as sex objects on the internet. The other is the current topic of discussion, that according to the choices made in the Hot Boy thread it would appear that fat men are not widely viewed as sex objects, not only in society as a whole but among fat women specifically.
> 
> Setting the arguments aside on the truth in those statements, I'm wondering how you and others view the sex appeal of fat. Do you (collective) believe it helps or hurts size acceptance?



Your post on the last page was a thing of beauty, Lilly, thank you.

As to your question, first let me point out (as I have to William in the past in another thread), most folks who primarily focus on fat activism without the social/dating component don't use terms like 'BBW' and 'BHM,' so searching under those terms in google for non-sexual fat acceptance websites is a little bit like searching 'leather daddy' in google and hoping to land on GLAAD or some other glbt rights organization-it really isn't good research.

As to the other question, I believe that one of the main reasons fat hatred is so strong has something to do with sexuality. Or maybe, I should say aesthetics. I think people have a negative reaction to the appearance of fat people, and certainly lots of people have speculated as to why this is so. Fear of the materiality of the body, fear of the power of human appetities and desires, fear of something that looks so much different than you, fear of the willful disregard of societal norms, and so forth.

Whether any of that is true, I don't know, but I think it is a big mistake by any fat activist group to completely ignore the reality that in many people's eyes, fat=ugly, and thus ugly=less possibilities for sex and long term relationships. One only has to look at the advertising done to sell us on diet potions and WLS and the rest-looking good and attracting a mate is as important in these ads (and, I might argue, more important) than the health issues that seem to dominate most SA/FA discussions on dealing with fat phobia.

That being said, all we should strive to do, as fat people, is to be able to look at the bodies of other fat people and see what beauty they have to offer. We don't have an obligation to be attracted to other fat bodies if we're not, but we do have an obligation to break our own possible internalized 'eww, fat is ugly' response, in my opinion. 

I typically find naturally very slender people unattractive to me*, but I have never ever looked upon them with an 'eww, gross' feeling, and I don't think it is too much to ask, or too unimportant a task, to expect other people to look upon my body and feel the same way. I don't want them all to think I'm sexy, but I sure as hell won't stand for any of them thinking its natural or OK to think I'm ugly and gross because I'm fat. Its not natural.


*I will, however, find someone attractive for a whole host of internal traits that trumps their body size, fat or thin.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Hey Lilly - I know my opinions are not very popular here but I really want to address this subject of Fat men and size acceptance.

I've been in and out of NAAFA (and other groups) since 1988 or so. That's a long time and I have had tons of experience and discussions about this subject. There are no web sites I can point you to, I can only relate my personal experiences from my years around these parts.

In my experience you would be hard pressed to find a fat man at a SA function - social or activist. For a few real (not imagined) reasons.


- Fat men have told me over the years, that they thought NAAFA was for fat women and thin men. 

- Fat men I've talked to say (if they have attended a social function) they were ignored by the fat women. (I'm making no judgment just stating my experiences.)

- NAAFA (as an example) does not address the needs of fat men. Which can be very different from fat women.

On only a personal note. I spent a good couple of years going to dances in the NJ/NJ/PA area. I even helped run a social club in PA and ran my own group in Colordao. In all those years I met maybe 2 fat men at these functions. No exaggeration.

Oh and there has been a fat man who was head of NAAFA. Does anyone remember Charles VanDyke?

So I think as a group we really need to listen to what the fat men here are saying. It's their experience, so only they can speak about their feelings.

JMO.


----------



## William

Sigh!!

Again 

My posts about the Hot Boy Thread never blamed or accused anyone, if someone blamed them please identify who you are talking about.

I have been involved in Fat Acceptance for a long time and it has gotten 1000 times better than the earlier years, maybe that is why I am so vocal. I contribute to the Fat Acceptance conversation often adding input from a BHM to statements written for BHMs with no problems. Other times all you face is opposition.

I have no idea why you made your comment, but I have never complained about the position of BBWs in Fat Acceptance, because most people that I post with on the internet are BBWs. I only comment on statements about BHMs that could use improvement.

I do not need to get involved because I am involved/

William







Fascinita said:


> All I know is that laying the purported problems of Fat Acceptace at the feet of a bunch of fat women who start a thread so they can have a little old good time won't get any of this solved.
> 
> If BHM feel that "more needs to be done," then they'd best get started "doing more."
> 
> No one can do your work for you. There are people who will be happy to *work alongside* you, to help you "build your house," so to speak. But you have to lift the first finger. And I hardly think that the way to make alliances is to alienate your neighbors by bickering with them.
> 
> Yes, fat women are well represented in the ranks of Fat Acceptance, but maybe that is because fat women have been the pioneers, the first to stand up and demand respect and to *work* actively toward it.
> 
> I would think that might be something to admire and emulate.
> 
> You have to be willing to do the work, and I don't mean *the work of nagging your older sister to go do your work for you.* If your attitude is one of belligerent demands, rather than cooperative action, who is going to want to help you?
> 
> Your work and your gains are going to remain unaccomplished as long as your attitude is one of blaming those closest to you for your failure to get ahead.


----------



## William

Hi Lilly 

Also 

Enemies of Fat Acceptance has used the social dating aspect of Fat Acceptance to their ends.

In Westchester County, NY a lady who was a the organizer of a BBW Dance agreed to let a local magazine do a story on the event. On the surface the reporter made it look like the article was going to be the real deal. In the end the article and photos made a mockery of the Event, the organizer was crushed and hurt.

William







LillyBBBW said:


> William if you don't mind I'd like to ask you a question. I was going to go away but I'm interested in what everyone has to say on this and not just you so people should feel free to contribute.
> 
> Two things I've often heard you mention in regards to fat acceptance. One is that a Google search of 'bbw' turns up nothing but sex sites. This would lead one to believe that bbw's are merely viewed as sex objects on the internet. The other is the current topic of discussion, that according to the choices made in the Hot Boy thread it would appear that fat men are not widely viewed as sex objects, not only in society as a whole but among fat women specifically.
> 
> Setting the arguments aside on the truth in those statements, I'm wondering how you and others view the sex appeal of fat. Do you (collective) believe it helps or hurts size acceptance?


----------



## RedVelvet

wrestlingguy said:


> Thank you for pointing this all out, Lilly. I want to talk about fat PEOPLE, then get into fat men, in discussing what is desirable.
> 
> Think back 30 years ago. If your mom was fat, think about the abuse that she took, and think about the possibility that your dad just may have not found her very attractive due to her weight, and pressure from his buddies, who all wanted the trophy wife. There were a handful of FA's back in the day, like maybe Conrad & a few other guys. (Thank God for them)
> 
> Now think about today. There is still pressure on a lot of guys to find the trophy wife, but more & more guys are expressing their preference for fat women. Fat women, at least on the interner, are getting more positive attention than they did 30, even 10 years ago. It didn't happen overnight.





I have managed to be both trophy wife and fatty...at the same time. Amazing!


----------



## Buffie

There are **ALL** kinds of men on the Hot Boy Thread. There -always- has been. 

Examples in differences are:

Ages, sizes, skin colors, weights, nationalities, social status, hair types (long/short/bald). 

Why are some people acting like this is not true? I'm confused. 

Sorry for the drama, but I am really surprised to see it has gone on this long over one significant issue that is errorneous.


----------



## Buffie

PolarKat said:


> OT.. what search terms are you using.. I'm not even picking up anything just Dims, a hosptial.. bank.. and BBW dating sites?? I didn't think there were any sites Specific fro BHM until smite started www.bhmffaconnection.com a couple months ago??



In google, I put "bhm ffa" but without quotes. However I'm sure you could spell out either of those in quotes and get lots of hits. 

Happy searching! =)


----------



## olwen

LillyBBBW said:


> William if you don't mind I'd like to ask you a question. I was going to go away but I'm interested in what everyone has to say on this and not just you so people should feel free to contribute.
> 
> Two things I've often heard you mention in regards to fat acceptance. One is that a Google search of 'bbw' turns up nothing but sex sites. This would lead one to believe that bbw's are merely viewed as sex objects on the internet. The other is the current topic of discussion, that according to the choices made in the Hot Boy thread it would appear that fat men are not widely viewed as sex objects, not only in society as a whole but among fat women specifically.
> 
> Setting the arguments aside on the truth in those statements, I'm wondering how you and others view the sex appeal of fat. Do you (collective) believe it helps or hurts size acceptance?



Good question. The sex appeal of fat....I know I've certainly come to accept and recognize myself as a sexual being because of fat porn. To know that men desired a body like mine was a revelation. Suddenly I wasn't invisible anymore. The thing is tho, porn is fantasy, not reality. Part of me feels like with other types of porn (aka regular porn) people understand that, but with bbw porn the line between fantasy and reality seems a little blurry. I had a few real life experiences where men expected me to be the fantasy and got pissed when I wasn't or refused to be and it made me feel like an object. They wanted me to be that fantasy _and _they expected me to be grateful for the attention. When I reminded them that I had more to offer besides sex, they always seemed to vanish. That began to affect my self esteem too for a while...I don't think I've completely gotten over that yet either...

So increased desirability certainly is an ego boost, but you can't sustain your ego or a movement on desire alone.


----------



## Fascinita

Buffie said:


> I am really surprised to see it has gone on this long over one significant issue that is errorneous.



It has gone on this long powered on the thousand "Sigh!!"s of one so-called activist who can't articulate how it is that we have "wronged" him here, Buffie, and who therefore has failed to take advantage of the opportunity afforded him by his having remained centerstage in the conversation here at Dims for several days now, an opportunity to do something productive (and by productive I don't mean sending people off on wild goose chases on Google, guessing at what wisdom it is we're supposed to glean from the seach results) and to build up rather than try to tear down. 

Frankly, all that sighing is putting me to sleep. Yawn!


----------



## PolarKat

Buffie said:


> In google, I put "bhm ffa" but without quotes. However I'm sure you could spell out either of those in quotes and get lots of hits.
> 
> Happy searching! =)


Thanks for getting back to me on that! I was hopeing you might have found something I missed.. but I tried that a little while ago with a bunch of variations, It's 90% click4cash links to tango/cupid bbw dating sites, the only thing that wasn't junk was links back to dims, bhmffaconnection, some spanish BHM/FFA site that just started, and a FFA livejournal & myspace page.. seems to be the same sites I find no matter what I've been searching..


----------



## Tina

wrestlingguy said:


> Think back 30 years ago. If your mom was fat, think about the abuse that she took, and think about the possibility that your dad just may have not found her very attractive due to her weight, and pressure from his buddies, who all wanted the trophy wife. There were a handful of FA's back in the day, like maybe Conrad & a few other guys. (Thank God for them)


I remember my mother telling me, when I was a teen, that my father told her that if she didn't lose the weight she gained with pregnancy that he'd leave her. Fatness runs in the family. She was plump, but she was also a popular burlesque dancer in Chicago and New York in some of the better clubs (which is how they met), so she couldn't have been exactly undesirable. Hearing that made me feel awful for her. It also made me feel that he'd have been ashamed of me, as I've always been fat.


> Blogs notwithstanding, if there is an element of truth to what William is saying, my theory is that his point night be moot in several years. Just be patient, and keep fighting the fight.


Phil, I agree that there is definitely an element. More than an element, really. It's the delivery that kills the message, I'm afraid.


----------



## William

Once again I have to clarify statements, I have never said that I have been wronged here.

and the only reason I am in this thread is that my original comments from another thread have been warped in this thread. I only repeat these corrections because the facts keep being changed to fit other people's purposes here.

William




Fascinita said:


> It has gone on this long powered on the thousand "Sigh!!"s of one so-called activist who can't articulate how it is that we have "wronged" him here, Buffie, and who therefore has failed to take advantage of the opportunity afforded him by his having remained centerstage in the conversation here at Dims for several days now, an opportunity to do something productive (and by productive I don't mean sending people off on wild goose chases on Google, guessing at what wisdom it is we're supposed to glean from the seach results) and to build up rather than try to tear down.
> 
> Frankly, all that sighing is putting me to sleep. Yawn!


----------



## LillyBBBW

William said:


> Hi Lilly
> 
> I think that the sexual expressions and flirting that goes on in Fat Acceptance is empowering and fun for people.
> 
> I also know that causes a divide in Fat Acceptance with the more Feminist Areas viewing anything with Fat Admiration and photo spreads as "illlll".
> 
> The different results that you get from Googling Fat Women and BBW is caused internally in Fat Acceptance from activity in Fat Acceptance. When I say activity in Fat Acceptance, I mean that the porno dealer's Target Market is in Fat Acceptance.
> 
> Now even the words "fat women" is being sexualized, I hope that we do not end up having to using Obese Women to find serious information.
> 
> The Hot Boy Thread is too small to be picked up by Google and I never said it was a internal Fat Acceptance stance, *only that it was good representation of what Society feels about Fat Men or any Fat Person. This fact was repeatedly left out of the conversation here.*
> William



I'm not going to argue this further.  I just want to point out that I did say, repeatedly, that I disagree.  It is not a "...good representation of what Society feels about Fat Men or any Fat Person." There are several elements at play that skewer the results making it a poor scientific comparison. That is all. No one wishes to malign what you've said. Only to disagree with what you've said and offer their own theories. 


GOOD STUFF everybody, thanks for participating. So much of what has been said rings true for me too and I completely agree. Thanks so much for your input.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Fascinita said:


> It has gone on this long powered on the thousand "Sigh!!"s of one so-called activist who can't articulate how it is that we have "wronged" him here, Buffie, and *who therefore has failed to take advantage of the opportunity afforded him by his having remained centerstage in the conversation here at Dims for several days now, an opportunity to do something productive (and by productive I don't mean sending people off on wild goose chases on Google, guessing at what wisdom it is we're supposed to glean from the seach results) and to build up rather than try to tear down. *
> 
> Frankly, all that sighing is putting me to sleep. Yawn!





LillyBBBW said:


> I'm not going to argue this further.  * I just want to point out that I did say, repeatedly, that I disagree.  It is not a "...good representation of what Society feels about Fat Men or any Fat Person." There are several elements at play that skewer the results making it a poor scientific comparison. That is all. No one wishes to malign what you've said. Only to disagree with what you've said and offer their own theories. *
> 
> 
> GOOD STUFF everybody, thanks for participating. So much of what has been said rings true for me too and I completely agree. Thanks so much for your input.



Exactly...I asked him myself...back around page 20 or so exactly HOW the hot boy thread maligns or holds down fat men.....he ignored that post. 
Another woman asked him right after me...he ignored her post. 
He never did his OWN google searces....until after a man had to ask him repeatedly...and do the search for him, before he made any response about that vagueness of saying "google it'. Oh, and on the google search william posted gave a link to an article about how fat men are not treated as badly in our society as the fat women are.....his own google search. 

Never has he explained EXACTLY why the hot boy thread maligns anyone...or what it proves other than some women find those guys attractive. He has never made the correllation of why finding thin men attractive is detrimental to fat men.
He has never ever acknowledged that fat men have been posted in the hot boy thread....and yet he feels it is okay to post thin women in the hot girl thread....and did not give me an answer as to why HIS posting of thin women isn't somehow detrimental to fat women. 
Enjoy your stage William.....I'm not sure what any of this has done for your credibility but it sure got you some of that attention you seem to crave.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

wrestlingguy said:


> Think back 30 years ago. If your mom was fat, think about the abuse that she took, and think about the possibility that your dad just may have not found her very attractive due to her weight, and pressure from his buddies, who all wanted the trophy wife. There were a handful of FA's back in the day, like maybe Conrad & a few other guys. (Thank God for them)



Ok, I'm 33 and for as long as I can remember my mom has been fat. I can remember being about 5 or 6 years old and my mom being out in the backyard with us playing in the water in short cut off jeans and a bikini top. I also remember all the times my dad would grab my mom's ass or sneak up behind her to give her a big kiss. My dad was attracted to my mom and showed it all the time in all kinds of ways. I also remember going into the bathroom and getting into my dad's girly magazines (what kid didn't?) and right there along side of the playboys and hustlers were the fat chick magazines. I dont remember the names right now but the women in the photos would have been considered fat. 

My parent's relationship is probably why I don't allow my fatness to make me question my attractiveness. I let other things do that for me, but I'm a girl and that's what girls do. ) I never had to question whether being fat was good or bad, and I wasn't told I wouldn't ever find a husband or no one would ever love me. 



wrestlingguy said:


> Now think about today. There is still pressure on a lot of guys to find the trophy wife, but more & more guys are expressing their preference for fat women. Fat women, at least on the interner, are getting more positive attention than they did 30, even 10 years ago. It didn't happen overnight, friends.



I think you are right about more and more guys expressing their preference for fat women, but I'm wondering if that's not because fat women have become more out, more vocal if you will, demanding that they be treated like everyone else. If the majority of fat women were willing to just sit in the house and not go out because they didn't feel good enough to be out there with everyone else, would that have changed? I don't think it would have. Even today there are guys that seek out the fat women with low self esteem, the ones that will be content to order food in and rent a movie have sex and let the guy be on his way, because they dont think they deserve any better. That's changed though, fat women are demanding more from the men that they see and because of that the men are forced to be out about their attraction to fat women.


----------



## largenlovely

one of my best friends is a BHM who has always been very well sought after by the ladies ...fat and skinny alike *shrug* I also know a number of large women who will only date BHM's. I've asked why, just out of curiosity (I usually like to ask why men are only into big women also just for the record). The most common answer is that bigger men make them feel safe. Women generally aren't attracted to "parts" we check out the entire package. I've found men of all sizes attractive. Bruce has joked about me leaving him if he gets fat, but in all truth and honesty, i'd love him and be equally as attracted to him at any size. Attraction (and love) is about more than fat or skinny parts ..it's about chemistry between individuals. I think women are more attuned to this than anyone.


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## Green Eyed Fairy

Ella Bella said:


> I think you are right about more and more guys expressing their preference for fat women, but I'm wondering if that's not because fat women have become more out, more vocal if you will, demanding that they be treated like everyone else. If the majority of fat women were willing to just sit in the house and not go out because they didn't feel good enough to be out there with everyone else, would that have changed? I don't think it would have. Even today there are guys that seek out the fat women with low self esteem, the ones that will be content to order food in and rent a movie have sex and let the guy be on his way, because they dont think they deserve any better. That's changed though, fat women are demanding more from the men that they see and because of that the men are forced to be out about their attraction to fat women.




Good point Ella....women and the world...both have been changing. Makes total sense that women have played a big hand in their own acceptance. 
Sure, guys that love big women help....but women not allowing themselves to be treated as second class citizens definitely has to have an impact.


----------



## William

Hi 

I stated several times that there are still way to many articles in Fat Acceptance that either say that it is OK for men to be Fat or go no further than a brief sentence about Fat Men having issues, but far less than Fat Women. Basically Fat Men are still second class citizens who have had their story told as stereotypes by others, some who are not too concerned about truthfulness.

As side from areas like Dimensions, why would a Fat Man be bothered with Fat Acceptance if their experiences are ignored there?

William







Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Exactly...I asked him myself...back around page 20 or so exactly HOW the hot boy thread maligns or holds down fat men.....he ignored that post.
> Another woman asked him right after me...he ignored her post.
> He never did his OWN google searces....until after a man had to ask him repeatedly...and do the search for him, before he made any response about that vagueness of saying "google it'. Oh, and on the google search william posted gave a link to an article about how fat men are not treated as badly in our society as the fat women are.....his own google search.
> 
> Never has he explained EXACTLY why the hot boy thread maligns anyone...or what it proves other than some women find those guys attractive. He has never made the correllation of why finding thin men attractive is detrimental to fat men.
> He has never ever acknowledged that fat men have been posted in the hot boy thread....and yet he feels it is okay to post thin women in the hot girl thread....and did not give me an answer as to why HIS posting of thin women isn't somehow detrimental to fat women.
> Enjoy your stage William.....I'm not sure what any of this has done for your credibility but it sure got you some of that attention you seem to crave.


----------



## Buffie

PolarKat said:


> Thanks for getting back to me on that! I was hopeing you might have found something I missed.. but I tried that a little while ago with a bunch of variations, It's 90% click4cash links to tango/cupid bbw dating sites, the only thing that wasn't junk was links back to dims, bhmffaconnection, some spanish BHM/FFA site that just started, and a FFA livejournal & myspace page.. seems to be the same sites I find no matter what I've been searching..



I'm thinking you have a new hobby on your hands. Start a new site! Do you have net skillz? I don't, but if I did, I would totally have a site devoted to kittens, glitter, lip gloss, blonde men, muscle cars, and the chicks who dig that stuff. 

But YOU, my friend, YOU have found your calling. It's so obvious that the reason you're looking for sites is because the universe is trying to tell you it's time for something new. Yuh huh.  At least consider it before you say no. 

But seriously, maybe you're the "Conrad" of a yet-to-be-created BHM/FFA version of Dims... Hrm....


----------



## William

Hi 

I also have said many times that the only thing that I have said about the Hot Boy Thread was that the choices (at the time) did represent the anti Fat Male values of society. 

The idea that society placed less value in Fat Men as it does with Fat Women was in dispute in that other thread and the Hot Boy Thread was just a tool I used to make a point.

Later when this thread was created everything about my comment had been twisted to serve other people goals and all I have contributed here is the truth about my comment and I have had to do that over and over and over and over............................

William




William said:


> Hi
> 
> I stated several times that there are still way to many articles in Fat Acceptance that either say that it is OK for men to be Fat or go no further than a brief sentence about Fat Men having issues, but far less than Fat Women. Basically Fat Men are still second class citizens who have had their story told as stereotypes by others, some who are not too concerned about truthfulness.
> 
> As side from areas like Dimensions, why would a Fat Man be bothered with Fat Acceptance if their experiences are ignored there?
> 
> William


----------



## Blackjack

William said:


> Hi
> 
> I also have said many times that the only thing that I have said about the Hot Boy Thread was that the choices (at the time) did represent the anti Fat Male values of society.
> 
> The idea that society placed less value in Fat Men as it does with Fat Women was in dispute in that other thread and the Hot Boy Thread was just a tool I used to make a point.
> 
> Later when this thread was created everything about my comment had been twisted to serve other people goals and all I have contributed here is the truth about my comment and I have had to do that over and over and over and over............................
> 
> William



You keep repeating yourself, but we keep asking because you never answer how someone going "I think that this guy is hot" is "anti Fat Male", or indicative of the values of society. 

It's indicative of what makes one person's panties moist. *THAT IS ALL.* No more or less than that. I honestly don't get what is so hard about that.


----------



## olwen

William said:


> Hi
> 
> I also have said many times that the only thing that I have said about the Hot Boy Thread was that the choices (at the time) did represent the anti Fat Male values of society.
> 
> The idea that society placed less value in Fat Men as it does with Fat Women was in dispute in that other thread and the Hot Boy Thread was just a tool I used to make a point.
> 
> Later when this thread was created everything about my comment had been twisted to serve other people goals and all I have contributed here is the truth about my comment and I have had to do that over and over and over and over............................
> 
> William



The real issue here; the reason there is so much contention is that you don't like that some of us disagree with you. To disagree with a statement doesn't negate the validity of the statement. It only means there is an opposing viewpoint and many of us have given you a plethora of reasons as to why we disagree. You have not despite being asked in many ways to give us valid reasons. To ask for "proof" or clarification also does not negate the validity of your claims. If anything it would make your arguments/viewpoints stronger. 

If you say to a child "The sky is blue," and the child asks why, "Because it just is" is not a satisfactory answer. The child would want to know _why_.

I don't think it's too much to ask you to _illustrate how_ bhms have been marginalized within the fat acceptance movement. Understand that some of us haven't been around as long as you have. Understand that some of us may not have witnessed this or had the experiences you have. Understand that some of us want to understand the _why's _and the _how's_. To ask you _why _or _how _does not undermine your argument either. You may be thinking "how the f*&^ can you not see why or how. What's the matter with you that you can't see why or how?" But to know that some may not see why or how means it becomes your job to _illustrate _that. Understand? 

After having said all that William, please jesus effing lord allmighty on a stick please please tell me that you finally understand what all the ding dang fuss has been about. Tell me you understand so I can finally bury this rotting stinking horse's corpse of a thread. 

Please.


----------



## William

People keep asking the same questions, at some point I will just type something up on word and start copying it over to save time. 

I used the Hot Boy Thread as a visual representation of Society's disinterest/repulsion of Fat Men. At the time that I mentioned the Hot Boy Thread there was very little representation of Fat Males on it and it made a great visual aid. That was on another Thread where the subject was again the level of bias that Fat Men face. 

I have be on this thread saying this over and over. 

I think that I have to create a 5 or 6 paragraph document to copy over each time these questions are asked. I can easily paste something together and save my time.

William







Blackjack said:


> You keep repeating yourself, but we keep asking because you never answer how someone going "I think that this guy is hot" is "anti Fat Male", or indicative of the values of society.
> 
> It's indicative of what makes one person's panties moist is all. No more or less than that. I honestly don't get what is so hard about that.


----------



## Buffie

How much representation in the Hot Boy Thread is considered fair or enough?


----------



## Wild Zero

MILES O'BRIEN FTW


----------



## ripley

William said:


> People keep asking the same questions, at some point I will just type something up on word and start copying it over to save time.
> 
> I used the Hot Boy Thread as a visual representation of Society's disinterest/repulsion of Fat Men. At the time that I mentioned the Hot Boy Thread there was very little representation of Fat Males on it and it made a great visual aid. That was on another Thread where the subject was again the level of bias that Fat Men face.
> 
> I have be on this thread saying this over and over.
> 
> I think that I have to create a 5 or 6 paragraph document to copy over each time these questions are asked. I can easily paste something together and save my time.
> 
> William




People keep asking you the same questions because you do not answer them in a way that is true. Saying the same false thing over and over doesn't make it more true.

1. The "hot boy thread" and the amount of fat men in it has NO relation to fat men being marginalized in SA. They are two separate issues. 

Yes, you may see that the "hot boy" thread mirrors society. So what? WE ARE SOCIETY TOO...why is it so shocking that we'd reflect that? Fat people, MEN and WOMEN, are less desired sexually than thin people. Thin people overall desire them less and so do other fat people. We as fat people are NOT required to find other fat people desirable, but that does not mean they are treated with less respect. Sexual desire has very, very, very little to do with Size Acceptance.


2. I do believe fat men have problems re fatness in society. The thing is...they DO have less issues because they are male. It is a gender thing and NOT an SA thing. It is a *true representation* to say they don't have as many/as difficult things to face as fat women do.


3. It's no one's fault but fat men themselves if they are underrepresented here and in SA as a whole. They need to come out of the woodwork and MAKE their concerns known. Then maybe "but fat men don't have it as bad as fat women" will stop cropping up so much on your beloved Google searches.




I think you'd be better served challenging the bias that fat men face in society rather than setting up some smoke and mirrors bias here to rail against.


----------



## PolarKat

Buffie said:


> I'm thinking you have a new hobby on your hands. Start a new site! Do you have net skillz? I don't, but if I did, I would totally have a site devoted to kittens, glitter, lip gloss, blonde men, muscle cars, and the chicks who dig that stuff.
> 
> But YOU, my friend, YOU have found your calling. It's so obvious that the reason you're looking for sites is because the universe is trying to tell you it's time for something new. Yuh huh.  At least consider it before you say no.
> 
> But seriously, maybe you're the "Conrad" of a yet-to-be-created BHM/FFA version of Dims... Hrm....


I wish I had the time, maybe once the house is paid off, taking as much OT and travel as possible to pay it off, that with the rest of real life doesn't leave too much free time anymore.. 
Plus Smite's gone and created bhmffaconnection, and he's doing quite a good job at it.. although I think you're quite right, I've been looking at blogs recently something I've never really paid much attention to before, and it does look like a good outlet that doesn't eat up as much time as would take running servers, and software.


----------



## Santaclear

I'm the guy who hates THIS thread (none of the posters, tho.) This thread is my new hobby.


----------



## Smite

I would just like to state that I didn't pay PolarKat to schill for my site.


Okay, maybe I gave him a hug, but that's it, I swear!


----------



## PolarKat

Smite said:


> I would just like to state that I didn't pay PolarKat to schill for my site.
> 
> 
> Okay, maybe I gave him a hug, but that's it, I swear!



Well, many of us did comment quite a few times on this, myself included, and you littlerally took the initative and ran like the wind with it, so credit is due, where credit is due..


----------



## Friday

La la la la la la la.


----------



## Wild Zero

This thread is now about Star Trek background characters.

MEET DARIEN WALLACE






I'm just going to make up a bunch of garbage about Darien Wallace like how he was born on Earth on Stardate 0000.12 which is something like March 23, 1543. Darien Wallace was a Mongolian warrior who didn't take nothin' from nobody, for reals. Then one day he fell into a stream, but this wasn't just any stream, it was a temporal slipstream. So then Darien Wallace got spat out sometime in the 28th century, also instead of being on Earth he was on Vulcan where he became a Romulan spy and was transported back to the whatever century ST:TNG took place in where he infiltrated the crew of the Enterprise-D as a lowly...um, science officer I guess. Fulfilling his childhood dream of mating with an alien woman Darien Wallace won Guinan's company for the evening after a particularly exciting game of foosball in the holodeck (I don't know how a Mongolian from the 16th century would have any knowledge of foosball but I would assume he has more knowledge of it than useless Guinan). His duplicity revealed Darien Wallace flew a shuttlecraft into a wormhole and came out on the other side near Earth sometime in the mid-20th century, landing in New York Darien Wallace founded Six Flags Darien Lake and waited for the perfect time to strike all the while maintaining contact with his Romulan overlords.


----------



## Wagimawr

Come one, come all, witness a grand and wonderful thing of beauty, a little thing we like to call...
*EPIC FAIL*.


Bask in your glory, sir.


----------



## William

Hi Ripley

When have I ever said that the Hot Boy Thread did anything to anybody?? Again I have never ever ever said that the Hot Boy did anything but......

I did said that at that early in the Hot Boy Thread the composition of the choices made did fairly represent the negative values of Society toward Fat Men and even Fat People. This was on another thread where I then went on to talk about Fat Issues that men have, while others were down playing the experiences of Fat Men. I can not help that at the time I made my point that the Hot Boy Thread choices made a good representation of the lack of acceptance/appeal that Fat Men Face. 

When I have ever said anything about the experiences of Fat Women? I think that in this thread and my history here at Dimensions that expressed that feel that Fat Women get a ton of oppression put on them, the Lion's share!

I just do not think that only focus of Fat Men in Fat Acceptance Articles ad books should only be that we receive a more acceptance and that should not depend one how many fat men are active in Fat Acceptance. How Fat Acceptance treats people should be fair period, to all sizes and gender of people.

I will right again, have to go to work 

William




ripley said:


> People keep asking you the same questions because you do not answer them in a way that is true. Saying the same false thing over and over doesn't make it more true.
> 
> 1. The "hot boy thread" and the amount of fat men in it has NO relation to fat men being marginalized in SA. They are two separate issues.
> 
> Yes, you may see that the "hot boy" thread mirrors society. So what? WE ARE SOCIETY TOO...why is it so shocking that we'd reflect that? Fat people, MEN and WOMEN, are less desired sexually than thin people. Thin people overall desire them less and so do other fat people. We as fat people are NOT required to find other fat people desirable, but that does not mean they are treated with less respect. Sexual desire has very, very, very little to do with Size Acceptance.
> 
> 
> 2. I do believe fat men have problems re fatness in society. The thing is...they DO have less issues because they are male. It is a gender thing and NOT an SA thing. It is a *true representation* to say they don't have as many/as difficult things to face as fat women do.
> 
> 
> 3. It's no one's fault but fat men themselves if they are underrepresented here and in SA as a whole. They need to come out of the woodwork and MAKE their concerns known. Then maybe "but fat men don't have it as bad as fat women" will stop cropping up so much on your beloved Google searches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you'd be better served challenging the bias that fat men face in society rather than setting up some smoke and mirrors bias here to rail against.


----------



## Rowan

William said:


> Basically Fat Men are still second class citizens who have had their story told as stereotypes by others, some who are not too concerned about truthfulness.
> William



I have been randomly following this thread, but the one thing that I pick up most from it is this quote. I am very sorry that you have what seems to be such low self-esteem, but it seems that you are the only one who feels so strongly like this. I've not seen any of the other BHM's flipping out over the hot boy thread. It is a thread that is supposed to be fun, just like the hot girl thread. 

I just hope you can feel better about yourself at some point, because all i've seen in your posts on this thread scream "woe is me"


----------



## William

Hi Rowan

I have never said anything about the Hot Boy Thread other than its early choices was a good representation of the lack of Fat Male acceptance in Society and then I went on debate with others why Fat Men do need Fat Acceptance more than the Fat Acceptance community acknowledges. 

All of my activity on this thread has been reminding people of that fact, that I never said anything about the Hot Boy Thread being bad. The truth about my original message is the only message that I have communicated about in this Thread.

The only thing that I am flipping out about is how my original statement has been twisted in this thread to be that I attacked the Hot Boy Thread. My original statement was only one sentence in multi-post conversation.

If my saying that Fat Acceptance turns off more Fat Men than it attracts means that I have low self-esteem then what argument can I reply with.

William





Rowan said:


> I have been randomly following this thread, but the one thing that I pick up most from it is this quote. I am very sorry that you have what seems to be such low self-esteem, but it seems that you are the only one who feels so strongly like this. I've not seen any of the other BHM's flipping out over the hot boy thread. It is a thread that is supposed to be fun, just like the hot girl thread.
> 
> I just hope you can feel better about yourself at some point, because all i've seen in your posts on this thread scream "woe is me"


----------



## Tooz

So how do we explain people like Kevin James? That dude ain't skinny.


----------



## NancyGirl74

Oooh...I love me some Kevin James. *Nancy's inane comment of the day.*


----------



## wrestlingguy

> Originally Posted by *William*
> Basically Fat Men are still second class citizens who have had their story told as stereotypes by others, some who are not too concerned about truthfulness.





Rowan said:


> I have been randomly following this thread, but the one thing that I pick up most from it is this quote. I am very sorry that you have what seems to be such low self-esteem, but it seems that you are the only one who feels so strongly like this. I've not seen any of the other BHM's flipping out over the hot boy thread. It is a thread that is supposed to be fun, just like the hot girl thread.
> 
> I just hope you can feel better about yourself at some point, because all i've seen in your posts on this thread scream "woe is me"



I agree, Rowan, and here's another observation by me. Fat women have also had their story told by others, some of who were not too concerned about truthfullness. They are also in some cases treated like second class citizens as well.

The point I want to make is that places like Dimensions helped women to "tough it out" as far as those problems are concerned. I think that any change in thought for people with regard to both acceptance and attraction takes time. By the way, the toughing out part of it had little to do with acceptance by others, it had mostly to do with my own self esteem.

As a former fat man, I can say that I toughed it out on my own, as places that offered support like Dimensions were not an option for me at that time. I still contend, however, that I never felt as socially snubbed as some of the women I encountered here, and other places on the net years later.



> Originally Posted by *William*
> I used the Hot Boy Thread as a visual representation of Society's disinterest/repulsion of Fat Men. At the time that I mentioned the Hot Boy Thread there was very little representation of Fat Males on it and it made a great visual aid. That was on another Thread where the subject was again the level of bias that Fat Men face.



I am wondering if William equates disinterest with repulsion? I think they're two separate issues, but I'd like to know his thoughts. I know William has said he never said that women didn't have it tough, in fact he agreed that they may have it tougher than men. I hope I am correct in asking this (especially after 20 + pages of getting to it), but is William saying that physical attraction comes after acceptance?

If so, I stated in a previous post that all of this takes time, and it requires the intestinal fortitude that was eloquently expressed by Ella Bella in her last post:


> Originally Posted by *Ella Bella*
> I think you are right about more and more guys expressing their preference for fat women, but I'm wondering if that's not because fat women have become more out, more vocal if you will, demanding that they be treated like everyone else. If the majority of fat women were willing to just sit in the house and not go out because they didn't feel good enough to be out there with everyone else, would that have changed? I don't think it would have. Even today there are guys that seek out the fat women with low self esteem, the ones that will be content to order food in and rent a movie have sex and let the guy be on his way, because they dont think they deserve any better. That's changed though, fat women are demanding more from the men that they see and because of that the men are forced to be out about their attraction to fat women.



Those changes didn't happen overnight.

As a final point, I have to agree with Ripley that things are different for fat women than they are for fat men, just like things are different for women in general than they are for men:


> Originally Posted by *Ripley*
> I do believe fat men have problems re fatness in society. The thing is...they DO have less issues because they are male. It is a gender thing and NOT an SA thing. It is a true representation to say they don't have as many/as difficult things to face as fat women do.



Again, as a former fat man, and although I have already heard from other BHM's that they disagree, I never found that my acceptance quotient was much different from anyone else's. I still think that women are judged physically first in our world, and then by who they are later, whereas judgement for men is less based on physicality, and more on things that don't involve getting the hormones going.

Seeing that we're still on the same one point, hoping that it would become crytal clear for all of us, I still would like to hear William's answers to my queries, without the use of a Word document. All I am asking, sir, is to answer and stay on point, without me having to look somewhere else for your answer. I would truly enjoy dialogue with you, as I'm sure other followers of this thread would.


----------



## Tooz

NancyGirl74 said:


> Oooh...I love me some Kevin James. *Nancy's inane comment of the day.*



See, now I, personally, dislike him strongly.

I particularly hate King of Queens. Why? Well, you'd never see a fat woman with a "hot" husband on a sitcom like that. I guess that's not James' fault per se, but I can't help it.


----------



## NancyGirl74

Tooz said:


> See, now I, personally, dislike him strongly.
> 
> I particularly hate King of Queens. Why? Well, you'd never see a fat woman with a "hot" husband on a sitcom like that. I guess that's not James' fault per se, but I can't help it.



Oh I agree! I don't like the show. I just like him. I think he's a major cutie. 

As for seeing thin, hot wives with overweight husbands...it's all over the media. King of Queens is just one show. What about According to Jim? Or Still Standing (which I don't think is still "standing" on TV any more). Hell, even Family Guy and the Simpsons have the fat guy with the thin wife. You NEVER see it the other way around. Roseanne had an equally fat hubby. What's-her-name on The Practice was perpetually single. So, when people complain about how fat men are treated I suggest looking at our society as a whole. I agree that BHM may be under represented here at Dimensions. However, when it comes to our society people are more accepting of the lovable fat guy getting the hot girl rather than the lovable fat girl getting the hot guy. I dare anyone to think of a time when a fat woman played a major lead roll on the big or small screen in which she lands the hot guy. Mo'Nique had to go to Africa to find a man in her movie, for heaven's sake! Kevin James, on the other hand, had the rich, hot heiress falling for him by the end of his movie. For that matter, I'd lay good money on Kevin James making the cover of Esquire before Mo'Nique or any fat actress lands the cover of Vogue. Are BHM's mistreated and misrepresented by society?? Sure. Equally mistreated and misrepresented as fat women??? Hells naw!


----------



## Smite

The only reason you don't see that is because it doesn't sell. If you have a "hot", slim, "sexy" lady in the role of a prominent character, then you're going to make money off of it. Even Roseanne had that with Sarah Chalke. 

It doesn't really matter much in the male role unless you're specifically making a chick flick, or a girls television show. That's when you get your Tom Cruises, Leo's, etc etc.


----------



## olwen

William said:


> Hi Rowan
> 
> I have never said anything about the Hot Boy Thread other than its early choices was a good representation of the lack of Fat Male acceptance in Society and then I went on debate with others why Fat Men do need Fat Acceptance more than the Fat Acceptance community acknowledges.
> 
> All of my activity on this thread has been reminding people of that fact, that I never said anything about the Hot Boy Thread being bad. The truth about my original message is the only message that I have communicated about in this Thread.
> 
> The only thing that I am flipping out about is how my original statement has been twisted in this thread to be that I attacked the Hot Boy Thread. My original statement was only one sentence in multi-post conversation.



I swear to God there's a dent in my forehead from bashing it against the wall these past few days.

Dude, yes, you think that the hot boy thread is a good representation of the lack of acceptance to fat men in society and some of us disagree. Those of us who disagree have told you why over and over - go back and read thru the posts. You say fat men need more acceptance than they are given. Okay. We said that fat men can't have acceptance unless they speak up and demand it. We'll gladly support you guys, but you have to do some of the work too. We're not here to mommy coddle you. We stand alongside of you - side by side. Women have spoken up and demanded acceptance not just in fat acceptance but from the nascent beginnings of the women's movement in the 19th century. Understand. They demanded it and worked damned hard to make sure they were heard. They didn't wait for the world at large to give them full attention - they got in peoples faces and shouted till the people couldn't help but to listen. That's what you need to do.

YOU DID SAY THE HOT BOY THREAD WAS BAD. YOU SAID IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER!!!!! This thread wouldn't be so long if you hadn't. 

DUDE, WTF??!!??



William said:


> If my saying that Fat Acceptance turns off more Fat Men than it attracts means that I have low self-esteem then what argument can I reply with.




Why else would you or any other bhm be turned off to fat acceptance? If you had more self esteem you would turn your anger into action. A person with a woe-is-me attitude sulks in the corner. A person with a fuck-this attitude does something to make the situation better. Dude,you have a woe-is-me attitude. You do. End of story. Period. You have to accept it. After you accept it then you will be able to take action. Right now you're not taking action you're whining like a little _expletive deleted_. 







It takes a lot to piss me off. This thread is pissing me off. Your attitude is pissing me off, and the worst part is you're not listening to anything any of us have said. And we have listened to you, offered you advice, tried to have a dialog with you, done everything under the sun to come to some sort of quiet understanding with you, but after 28 effing pages of cockamaimie bs I see that this is just hopless _because of _your attitude. Until you decide to change it you're going to have this problem over and over and over again.






This thread is like a trainwreck....


----------



## RedVelvet

olwen said:


> I swear to God there's a dent in my forehead from bashing it against the wall these past few days.




I can almost smell the "Sigh!" coming your way, baby....


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

olwen said:


> and the worst part is you're not listening to anything any of us have said. And we have listened to you, offered you advice, tried to have a dialog with you, done everything under the sun to come to some sort of quiet understanding with you, but after 28 effing pages of cockamaimie bs I see that this is just hopless _because of _your attitude. *Until you decide to change it you're going to have this problem over and over and over again.*




Bingo...and I usually don't get into debates so heavily as I have this one. I just cannot stand a self-made victim. 
They are as bad as an abuser, IMO, and nothing in their life will ever change until they decide to stop being a victim and change it THEMSELVES.


----------



## LillyBBBW

The reason fat acceptance turns off more men than it attracts is because they come to fat acceptance for the wrong reasons. Every complaint I've heard has centered around dating and physical desirability, something fat acceptance and size acceptance were never intended to address. This is why no one will listen. Type in BHM and the internet only pulls up dating sites. This has been the primary interest in regards to fat men. There are plenty of people out there who've made attempts to fill that need, just like there are plenty of organizations that provide this same need for bbws. This is completely separate from fat acceptance therefore constant cries of foul about what women and men find hot will not nor will it ever be addressed within fat acceptance. It will continue to be ignored because it is not relevant to fat acceptance. Go to BHMFFAConnection or Largefriends to address these issues and complain there. Fat/size acceptance is about changing societal perception that being fat is a sign of poor character, poor health and laziness. 


Do I get a hug too smite? 




wikipedia said:


> "The fat acceptance movement, also the size acceptance movement or fat liberation movement or fat power, is a grassroots effort to change societal attitudes towards individuals who are fat.....
> 
> "The contemporary movement perceives negative societal attitudes as persistent, and based on the presumption that the rotund characteristics of a person's body reflect negative character traits of that person...."
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sizeism​


----------



## RedVelvet

LillyBBBW said:


> The reason fat acceptance turns off more men than it attracts is because they come to fat acceptance for the wrong reasons. Every complaint I've heard has centered around dating and physical desirability, something fat acceptance and size acceptance were never intended to address. This is why no one will listen. Type in BHM and the internet only pulls up dating sites. This has been the primary interest in regards to fat men. There are plenty of people out there who've made attempts to fill that need, just like there are plenty of organizations that provide this same need for bbws. This is completely separate from fat acceptance therefore constant cries of foul about what women and men find hot will not nor will it ever be addressed within fat acceptance. It will continue to be ignored because it is not relevant to fat acceptance. Go to BHMFFAConnection or Largefriends to address these issues and complain there. Fat/size acceptance is about changing societal perception that being fat is a sign of poor character, poor health and laziness.
> 
> 
> Do I get a hug too smite?




Thank you for this most reasoned and logical and on the money response.

I can't rep you cuz I rep you too much, dammit.


----------



## mossystate

LillyBBBW said:


> The reason fat acceptance turns off more men than it attracts is because they come to fat acceptance for the wrong reasons. * Every complaint I've heard has centered around dating and physical desirability*, something fat acceptance and size acceptance were never intended to address. This is why no one will listen. Type in BHM and the internet only pulls up dating sites. This has been the primary interest in regards to fat men. There are plenty of people out there who've made attempts to fill that need, just like there are plenty of organizations that provide this same need for bbws. This is completely separate from fat acceptance therefore constant cries of foul about what women and men find hot will not nor will it ever be addressed within fat acceptance. It will continue to be ignored because it is not relevant to fat acceptance. Go to BHMFFAConnection or Largefriends to address these issues and complain there. *Fat/size acceptance is about changing societal perception that being fat is a sign of poor character, poor health and laziness.*
> 
> 
> Do I get a hug too smite?






Yes....yes....yes....yessssssssss..ssss. 


This post marks the part where we all say...AMEN...and go get some lunch.


----------



## olwen

LillyBBBW said:


> The reason fat acceptance turns off more men than it attracts is because they come to fat acceptance for the wrong reasons. Every complaint I've heard has centered around dating and physical desirability, something fat acceptance and size acceptance were never intended to address. This is why no one will listen. Type in BHM and the internet only pulls up dating sites. This has been the primary interest in regards to fat men. There are plenty of people out there who've made attempts to fill that need, just like there are plenty of organizations that provide this same need for bbws. This is completely separate from fat acceptance therefore constant cries of foul about what women and men find hot will not nor will it ever be addressed within fat acceptance. It will continue to be ignored because it is not relevant to fat acceptance. Go to BHMFFAConnection or Largefriends to address these issues and complain there. Fat/size acceptance is about changing societal perception that being fat is a sign of poor character, poor health and laziness.
> 
> 
> Do I get a hug too smite?



Lilly that makes total sense. I think you have just rescued me from a room with a padded cell.


----------



## Tooz

Smite said:


> The only reason you don't see that is because it doesn't sell. If you have a "hot", slim, "sexy" lady in the role of a prominent character, then you're going to make money off of it. Even Roseanne had that with Sarah Chalke.



You just made my point for me, thanks.


----------



## TraciJo67

Nothing to add, just wishing to get an early lead on Page 30 of this "Beat A Dead Horse To Death Again" thread


----------



## Smite

Tooz said:


> You just made my point for me, thanks.



Don't take that as my personal opinion, as that's far from it. It's just the deal.

And yes, many hugs for Lilly!


----------



## CAMellie

Wild Zero said:


> This thread is now about Star Trek background characters.
> 
> MEET DARIEN WALLACE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just going to make up a bunch of garbage about Darien Wallace like how he was born on Earth on Stardate 0000.12 which is something like March 23, 1543. Darien Wallace was a Mongolian warrior who didn't take nothin' from nobody, for reals. Then one day he fell into a stream, but this wasn't just any stream, it was a temporal slipstream. So then Darien Wallace got spat out sometime in the 28th century, also instead of being on Earth he was on Vulcan where he became a Romulan spy and was transported back to the whatever century ST:TNG took place in where he infiltrated the crew of the Enterprise-D as a lowly...um, science officer I guess. Fulfilling his childhood dream of mating with an alien woman Darien Wallace won Guinan's company for the evening after a particularly exciting game of foosball in the holodeck (I don't know how a Mongolian from the 16th century would have any knowledge of foosball but I would assume he has more knowledge of it than useless Guinan). His duplicity revealed Darien Wallace flew a shuttlecraft into a wormhole and came out on the other side near Earth sometime in the mid-20th century, landing in New York Darien Wallace founded Six Flags Darien Lake and waited for the perfect time to strike all the while maintaining contact with his Romulan overlords.



Fuck...I'm out of rep!


----------



## TraciJo67

Mossything, would you happen to have any crackers to go with this mighty fine jar of horse pate?


----------



## mossystate

TraciJo67 said:


> Mossything, would you happen to have any crackers to go with this mighty fine jar of horse pate?




Horse pate?.....:doh:....honey...the 5 second rule does not apply to...........that...


----------



## olwen

CAMellie said:


> Fuck...I'm out of rep!



I got her already!


----------



## Jack Skellington

I am only adding this because I have so much respect for the women posting here trying to patiently reason with this guy. 

My feelings on it: 

This whole train wreck was started by one man taking a non-issue and using it as a weapon to try to control and shame the women here. It was then further twisted by another man in his attempt to vilify women that accept BHM but are not sexually attracted or exclusively attracted to them and promote his need for self victimization and entitlement. 

To sum up, I admire you for wanting to help him but I think we all realize that it is obvious at this point: 

There is no reasoning with him. 
He doesn’t want to be to be reasoned with.
It’s just feeding his ego and giving him more undeserved attention.


----------



## CAMellie

olwen said:


> I got her already!



Thank you. :happy:


----------



## CAMellie

Jack Skellington said:


> I am only adding this because I have so much respect for the women posting here trying to patiently reason with this guy.
> 
> My feelings on it:
> 
> This whole train wreck was started by one man taking a non-issue and using it as a weapon to try to control and shame the women here. It was then further twisted by another man in his attempt to vilify women that accept BHM but are not sexually attracted or exclusively attracted to them and promote his need for self victimization and entitlement.
> 
> To sum up, I admire you for wanting to help him but I think we all realize that it is obvious at this point:
> 
> There is no reasoning with him.
> He doesnt to be to be reasoned with.
> Its just feeding his ego and giving him more undeserved attention.



Very well said. Thank you.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Jack Skellington said:


> I am only adding this because I have so much respect for the women posting here trying to patiently reason with this guy.
> 
> My feelings on it:
> 
> This whole train wreck was started by one man taking a non-issue and using it as a weapon to try to control and shame the women here. It was then further twisted by another man in his attempt to vilify women that accept BHM but are not sexually attracted or exclusively attracted to them and promote his need for self victimization and entitlement.
> 
> To sum up, I admire you for wanting to help him but I think we all realize that it is obvious at this point:
> 
> There is no reasoning with him.
> He doesnt want to be to be reasoned with.
> Its just feeding his ego and giving him more undeserved attention.



I agree. Some of us, meaning me, are foolish enough to actually feel bad for the guy. Although his issues are non issues apparently they mean something to him, misguided though they be. A lot of us, meaning me, are really passionate about size/fat acceptance and want everyone to feel included. I'm not sure about Carl but William has worn thin the patience of many and had the door slammed in his face quite a few times in quite a few places. He was booted off of BigFatBlog quite some time ago. He believes everything he says. The moment I saw him appear I was going to unsubscribe and go back to the 'OMG her size' thread but it's been rather quiet there of late. *shrugs* 

Let it never be said that no one ever tried hard enough to reach out and get through.


----------



## olwen

Jack Skellington said:


> I am only adding this because I have so much respect for the women posting here trying to patiently reason with this guy.
> 
> My feelings on it:
> 
> This whole train wreck was started by one man taking a non-issue and using it as a weapon to try to control and shame the women here. It was then further twisted by another man in his attempt to vilify women that accept BHM but are not sexually attracted or exclusively attracted to them and promote his need for self victimization and entitlement.
> 
> To sum up, I admire you for wanting to help him but I think we all realize that it is obvious at this point:
> 
> There is no reasoning with him.
> He doesnt want to be to be reasoned with.
> Its just feeding his ego and giving him more undeserved attention.



I don't think the OP intended to try to control or shame the women here. He addressed and expressed his issue with something that bothered him. No fault there. After participating in this thread and other threads with him and talking to him I do understand why he feels the way he does even tho I don't agree with it. He does understand and is glad that some of us aren't so delicate and self effacing as to be bothered by the appearance of some images of thin people on a site about fat acceptance and fat sexuality and he does understand that the women need to be able to express what they like in a place they are comfortable in. My issues with the majority of this thread haven't been with him at all. But for the other one, you are absolutely right on your last three points. And I can and will really truly finally walk away from this hot mess of a thread.



~~unsubscribe~~


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Hey folks? I don't get it. Why are you trying so hard to change Williams mind? Right or wrong isn't the point here. The point is Williams experience is different than yours. So what? I think everyone needs to just let everyone have their own opinion. But you know whatever.


----------



## William

Hi Lilly 

I simply refuse to let people turn my original post into a attack on the Hot Boy Thread, at best it was a observation. 

I have no need to debate the Fat Male and Fat Acceptance Issue because what ever is true will come out in the end. 

People question why more BHMs do not participate in Fat Acceptance. I think that what we forget that the majority of Fat People never have had any contact with Fat Acceptance, if anything we are the "odd" ones.

William




LillyBBBW said:


> I agree. Some of us, meaning me, are foolish enough to actually feel bad for the guy. Although his issues are non issues apparently they mean something to him, misguided though they be. A lot of us, meaning me, are really passionate about size/fat acceptance and want everyone to feel included. I'm not sure about Carl but William has worn thin the patience of many and had the door slammed in his face quite a few times in quite a few places. He was booted off of BigFatBlog quite some time ago. He believes everything he says. The moment I saw him appear I was going to unsubscribe and go back to the 'OMG her size' thread but it's been rather quiet there of late. *shrugs*
> 
> Let it never be said that no one ever tried hard enough to reach out and get through.


----------



## William

Hi Olwen

What gets me dizzy is that no one has shown any logic of how my commenting that the early choices in the Hot Boy Thread was very like the choices made by society and driven by the negative values that Society places on Fat Men, have a beef with the Hot Boy Thread. I only used it as a example of something that someone in a thread said did not exist. I hope that you are not another one that does not believe that Society has a negative perception of Fat Men!

All the Hot Boy Thread means to me is something that I used to prove a point in a thread.

I fully expect all that I have written here to be ignored again!

William 





olwen said:


> I don't think the OP intended to try to control or shame the women here. He addressed and expressed his issue with something that bothered him. No fault there. After participating in this thread and other threads with him and talking to him I do understand why he feels the way he does even tho I don't agree with it. He does understand and is glad that some of us aren't so delicate and self effacing as to be bothered by the appearance of some images of thin people on a site about fat acceptance and fat sexuality and he does understand that the women need to be able to express what they like in a place they are comfortable in. My issues with the majority of this thread haven't been with him at all. But for the other one, you are absolutely right on your last three points. And I can and will really truly finally walk away from this hot mess of a thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ~~unsubscribe~~


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

That is very true William. 






William said:


> Hi Lilly
> 
> I simply refuse to let people turn my original post into a attack on the Hot Boy Thread, at best it was a observation.
> 
> I have no need to debate the Fat Male and Fat Acceptance Issue because what ever is true will come out in the end.
> 
> People question why more BHMs do not participate in Fat Acceptance. I think that what we forget that the majority of Fat People never have had any contact with Fat Acceptance, if anything we are the "odd" ones.
> 
> William


----------



## William

Olwen

If I thought the Hot Boy Thread was bad then what I would do is type "the Hot Boy Thread is bad". That is not what I typed because that is not what I was trying to communicate.

I was on one of those threads that try to minimize the experiences of Fat Men. The usual comments like "look at all the Fat Men" on TV were made, like that makes the world automatically peachy for Fat Men.

So I said look at this thread right here on Dimensions, statistically it is a great example of the lack of worth that Society places on Fat Men and Fat People. That is all that I did, any negativity has come from elsewhere.

I have some studying to do/




olwen said:


> I swear to God there's a dent in my forehead from bashing it against the wall these past few days.
> 
> Dude, yes, you think that the hot boy thread is a good representation of the lack of acceptance to fat men in society and some of us disagree. Those of us who disagree have told you why over and over - go back and read thru the posts. You say fat men need more acceptance than they are given. Okay. We said that fat men can't have acceptance unless they speak up and demand it. We'll gladly support you guys, but you have to do some of the work too. We're not here to mommy coddle you. We stand alongside of you - side by side. Women have spoken up and demanded acceptance not just in fat acceptance but from the nascent beginnings of the women's movement in the 19th century. Understand. They demanded it and worked damned hard to make sure they were heard. They didn't wait for the world at large to give them full attention - they got in peoples faces and shouted till the people couldn't help but to listen. That's what you need to do.
> 
> YOU DID SAY THE HOT BOY THREAD WAS BAD. YOU SAID IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER!!!!! This thread wouldn't be so long if you hadn't.
> 
> DUDE, WTF??!!??
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why else would you or any other bhm be turned off to fat acceptance? If you had more self esteem you would turn your anger into action. A person with a woe-is-me attitude sulks in the corner. A person with a fuck-this attitude does something to make the situation better. Dude,you have a woe-is-me attitude. You do. End of story. Period. You have to accept it. After you accept it then you will be able to take action. Right now you're not taking action you're whining like a little _expletive deleted_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It takes a lot to piss me off. This thread is pissing me off. Your attitude is pissing me off, and the worst part is you're not listening to anything any of us have said. And we have listened to you, offered you advice, tried to have a dialog with you, done everything under the sun to come to some sort of quiet understanding with you, but after 28 effing pages of cockamaimie bs I see that this is just hopless _because of _your attitude. Until you decide to change it you're going to have this problem over and over and over again.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This thread is like a trainwreck....


----------



## ThikJerseyChik

OMFG is this thread still going?????

This horse has been beaten so bad that there is no remains left....geesh! :doh:


----------



## TraciJo67

ThikJerseyChik said:


> OMFG is this thread still going?????
> 
> This horse has been beaten so bad that there is no remains left....geesh! :doh:



Want some of my pate? 

BTW ... not scolding anyone ... I've flogged a few (million) carcasses in my time. I'm just enjoying the show, and annoying the other attendees by making random (i.e., useless) observations :eat1:


----------



## largenlovely

I've actually had a hard time trying to figure out exactly what you were saying myself. You've not been clear..you keep repeating yourself, but you've still not been very clear in the repititions. 

there was the hot girl thread...where a lot of pics of famous skinny women were posted that we consider hot. Almost all the pics were of famous people (in the hot girl AND hot boy thread). There aren't many fat famous people to really post pics of....same with BHM's. Most all famous people are skinny and such. So...is your beef REALLY that the famous men that everyone knows and lusts after are almost all skinny? If so, then yeah...we fat ladies have the same argument. 



William said:


> So I said look at this thread right here on Dimensions, statistically it is a great example of the lack of worth that Society places on Fat Men and Fat People./


----------



## mossystate

TraciJo67 said:


> Want some of my pate?




head?


many not right thoughts roaming the corridors of my mind...misty water colored meeeeeeeeeemories


----------



## Fascinita

Smite said:


> The only reason you don't see that is because it doesn't sell. If you have a "hot", slim, "sexy" lady in the role of a prominent character, then you're going to make money off of it. Even Roseanne had that with Sarah Chalke.
> 
> It doesn't really matter much in the male role unless you're specifically making a chick flick, or a girls television show. That's when you get your Tom Cruises, Leo's, etc etc.



This is so wrong, I am left "speechless."

On second thought...

Yeah, thanks, Smite, for clearing that up for us fat ladies... We get it: We don't "sell" and thus it is no one's fault--certainly not the fault of the people who make TV shows!--that we "can't" get more roles on TV. Hey, what do we expect, if we don't "sell"? Guess we'd better just take our lumps and let the nice skinny hotties do all the selling.... Cuz, you know, it needs to sell.

Yeah, that's a perfectly good explanation. And I for one am just going to sit here and take comfort in the fact that if there aren't more fat female characters portrayed on TV, it's because fat women don't "sell." 

So again, Einstein... ooops, I mean, Smite... thanks for clearing it up that you personally find Sarah Chalke slim and hot and sexy, and Roseanne not so much.

Oh, and as a fat woman, I am really glad to know you're out there fighting on my side.


----------



## Ninja Glutton

I'm not touching this thread with a 40 ft. clown pole


----------



## Fascinita

Ninja Glutton said:


> I'm not touching this thread with a 40 ft. clown pole



You just did. :happy:


----------



## William

Hi LL

You will have to ask those who are trying to accuse me of having a beef or dislike of the Hot Boy Thread. I only used it as a example of something that someone else was saying did not exist.

How much clearer can it get?????

Your comment about there being few Fat famous people for the posters to choose is the most intelligent statement made in this thread. It was one of the reasons that I picked the Hot Boy Thread to use as a example. I could not lose from using it as a example, the odds had to be in my favor.

All of this other stuff people have brought into this conversation is on them, they need to deal with their own feelings 

William





largenlovely said:


> I've actually had a hard time trying to figure out exactly what you were saying myself. You've not been clear..you keep repeating yourself, but you've still not been very clear in the repititions.
> 
> there was the hot girl thread...where a lot of pics of famous skinny women were posted that we consider hot. Almost all the pics were of famous people (in the hot girl AND hot boy thread). There aren't many fat famous people to really post pics of....same with BHM's. Most all famous people are skinny and such. So...is your beef REALLY that the famous men that everyone knows and lusts after are almost all skinny? If so, then yeah...we fat ladies have the same argument.


----------



## largenlovely

ok, i feel like i'm getting somewhere here lol

so then...it's really not about only fat MEN then... There are very few fat men OR fat women on television or who are famous and none of them are considered sexy (as far as "regular" society is concerned) So on that footing we'd be equal. Because in the hot boy thread and the hot girl thread..it was all famous people and we both agree that almost all the famous people are skinny. So society considers NEITHER fat men or fat women sexy..equally

Now..if you're saying that fat WOMEN have progressed further along in the size acceptance community because we're considered sexy (some of us have websites and post provocative pics and such) and all that stuff, well then i can see where you're coming from. I think i would have to say that it's a natural progression though. Men are almost always more vocal about expressing their desire for women...men who like fat women AND men who like skinny women. 



William said:


> Your comment about there being few Fat famous people for the posters to choose is the most intelligent statement made in this thread. It was one of the reasons that I picked the Hot Boy Thread to use as a example. I could not lose from using it as a example, the odds had to be in my favor.


----------



## Smite

Fascinita said:


> This is so wrong, I am left "speechless."
> 
> On second thought...
> 
> Yeah, thanks, Smite, for clearing that up for us fat ladies... We get it: We don't "sell" and thus it is no one's fault--certainly not the fault of the people who make TV shows!--that we "can't" get more roles on TV. Hey, what do we expect, if we don't "sell"? Guess we'd better just take our lumps and let the nice skinny hotties do all the selling.... Cuz, you know, it needs to sell.
> 
> Yeah, that's a perfectly good explanation. And I for one am just going to sit here and take comfort in the fact that if there aren't more fat female characters portrayed on TV, it's because fat women don't "sell."
> 
> So again, Einstein... ooops, I mean, Smite... thanks for clearing it up that you personally find Sarah Chalke slim and hot and sexy, and Roseanne not so much.
> 
> Oh, and as a fat woman, I am really glad to know you're out there fighting on my side.



This post is full of misinformation and misdirection of hate, that i'm not even going to respond to it. To even imply that I "hate fat women" is so ridiculous that it's not even worth my time. Instead, here's a pleasent picture that best sums up this thread:


----------



## wrestlingguy

wrestlingguy said:


> *I am wondering if William equates disinterest with repulsion*? I think they're two separate issues, but I'd like to know his thoughts. I know William has said he never said that women didn't have it tough, in fact he agreed that they may have it tougher than men. I hope I am correct in asking this (especially after 20 + pages of getting to it), *but is William saying that physical attraction comes after acceptance?*
> 
> Seeing that we're still on the same one point, hoping that it would become crytal clear for all of us, I still would like to hear William's answers to my queries, without the use of a Word document. All I am asking, sir, is to answer and stay on point, without me having to look somewhere else for your answer. I would truly enjoy dialogue with you, as I'm sure other followers of this thread would.





> Hi Olwen
> 
> What gets me dizzy is that no one has shown any logic of how my commenting that the early choices in the Hot Boy Thread was very like the choices made by society and driven by the negative values that Society places on Fat Men, have a beef with the Hot Boy Thread. I only used it as a example of something that someone in a thread said did not exist. I hope that you are not another one that does not believe that Society has a negative perception of Fat Men!
> 
> All the Hot Boy Thread means to me is something that I used to prove a point in a thread.
> 
> I fully expect all that I have written here to be ignored again!
> 
> William



Originally posted by *William*
And the questions that I have asked you in my previous post have been ignored as well, my friend.

I am trying REALLY hard to unserstand your perspective, but it's diffucult to do so if you won't respond to my questions.

sigh..................


----------



## Fascinita

Smite said:


> This post is full of misinformation and misdirection of hate, that i'm not even going to respond to it. To even imply that I "hate fat women" is so ridiculous that it's not even worth my time. Instead, here's a pleasent picture that best sums up this thread:



Dude, you're missing the point. D'oh. And you avoidance (hardy har... a picture with a panda and a rainbow!) doesn't make it any less so.

In spite of your snotty attitude, I kind of admire your chutzpah, and sympathize with your need to have the last word, even if it's just some stupid ramblings--heck, at your age, I was probably even snottier than you. 

Let me do you a favor. Let me take the time to spell it out for you:

If we (fat chicks) could be content with explanations like "fat women don't sell," we would. But we can't. Because it's not right. It's not right because it excludes us, by definition, categorically, from our full humanity. Basically, whoever believes that fat women don't sell because they're not sexy, is selling us short. So your explanation doesn't wash. It's suspect.

When you say "The reason you don't have more fat women on TV is because it's skinny, "sexy" women that sell," what you're doing is offering a rationale for institutionalized prejudice.

What you're also saying is that fat women can't be sexy.

So you don't have to actively "hate" fat women to hurt us. Discounting us and our potential is hate enough.

By going on the assumption that we are not sexy, and using that to justify the rationale that says fat women don't sell, your argument seems to hold up prejudice as just something that's "natural" and unavoidable.

(I'll also point out that it's a circular argument.)

See how that works?


----------



## William

Hi 

My primary goal in this thread is to turn back comments that have been made in this thread that I have in some way said that the Hot Boy Thread is bad and that I spoke against the Hot Boy Thread. 

I have never said anything about physical attraction either.

The statement that I have been making is clear and very precise, if you are going to add issues then you need to answer them yourself and leave me out of it.


William



wrestlingguy said:


> Originally posted by *William*
> And the questions that I have asked you in my previous post have been ignored as well, my friend.
> 
> I am trying REALLY hard to unserstand your perspective, but it's diffucult to do so if you won't respond to my questions.
> 
> sigh..................


----------



## Smite

Fascinita said:


> Dude, you're missing the point. D'oh. And you avoidance (hardy har... a picture with a panda and a rainbow!) doesn't make it any less so.
> 
> In spite of your snotty attitude, I kind of admire your chutzpah, and sympathize with your need to have the last word, even if it's just some stupid ramblings--heck, at your age, I was probably even snottier than you.
> 
> Let me do you a favor. Let me take the time to spell it out for you:
> 
> If we (fat chicks) could be content with explanations like "fat women don't sell," we would. But we can't. Because it's not right. It's not right because it excludes us, by definition, categorically, from our full humanity. Basically, whoever believes that fat women don't sell because they're not sexy, is selling us short. So your explanation doesn't wash. It's suspect.
> 
> When you say "The reason you don't have more fat women on TV is because it's skinny, "sexy" women that sell," what you're doing is offering a rationale for institutionalized prejudice.
> 
> What you're also saying is that fat women can't be sexy.
> 
> So you don't have to actively "hate" fat women to hurt us. Discounting us and our potential is hate enough.
> 
> By going on the assumption that we are not sexy, and using that to justify the rationale that says fat women don't sell, your argument seems to hold up prejudice as just something that's "natural" and unavoidable.
> 
> (I'll also point out that it's a circular argument.)
> 
> See how that works?



No, because again you're saying that what I said was my personal opinion, which wasn't and never will be. You didn't even ask for what I meant, but assumed that by saying fat women don't sell seems to say that I said fat women aren't sexy. 

Someone asked why there's never fat women with handsome skinny guys, and I answered. It wasn't a statment or personal opinion of mine. It was the damn truth, and will be until fa's far outnumber people who like skinny girls. Until then, if you're trying to make money, and you know Jessica Biel/Simposon/Alba is going to automatically put $25 million in your bank account, then whats the incentive to not use one of them? 

But go ahead, turn it into a spin against how I hate fat women and i'm this hitler-esqe figure.


----------



## largenlovely

I actually said something similar in my last post....

what I meant was that general society (or tv producers in this case) don't consider fat women sexy...perhaps that's what smite meant as well when he said fat women don't sell. They don't consider us sexy so they don't put us on tv. 



Fascinita said:


> If we (fat chicks) could be content with explanations like "fat women don't sell," we would. But we can't. Because it's not right. It's not right because it excludes us, by definition, categorically, from our full humanity. Basically, whoever believes that fat women don't sell because they're not sexy, is selling us short. So your explanation doesn't wash. It's suspect.
> 
> When you say "The reason you don't have more fat women on TV is because it's skinny, "sexy" women that sell," what you're doing is offering a rationale for institutionalized prejudice.
> 
> What you're also saying is that fat women can't be sexy.


----------



## Smite

What I meant can best be summed up by "Sex in the City".

That show/movie served no real purpose but to sell those clothes. If FA-ers where more prominent then they would be using bigger ladies. But since they're not, then they use what will catch more peoples attention.

This isn't a "sexy" game, it's a numbers game. That's it.


----------



## RedVelvet

Hitler has been mentioned...Automatic lose.

Godwin's law...


----------



## butch

Smite said:


> No, because again you're saying that what I said was my personal opinion, which wasn't and never will be. You didn't even ask for what I meant, but assumed that by saying fat women don't sell seems to say that I said fat women aren't sexy.
> 
> Someone asked why there's never fat women with handsome skinny guys, and I answered. It wasn't a statment or personal opinion of mine. It was the damn truth, and will be until fa's far outnumber people who like skinny girls. Until then, if you're trying to make money, and you know Jessica Biel/Simposon/Alba is going to automatically put $25 million in your bank account, then whats the incentive to not use one of them?
> 
> But go ahead, turn it into a spin against how I hate fat women and i'm this hitler-esqe figure.



I have a question-if you're saying that the 'fat woman isn't sexy and won't sell on TV' thing won't change until there are more male FAs than not, then that must mean there are more FFAs than not today, or we wouldn't see the fat husband, thin hot wife pairing replicated across the sitcom spectrum.

I'm not being snarky, I'm asking you to explain this seeming contradiction, because nobody I know thinks FFAs outnumber non FFAs.


----------



## Smite

Where is this "fat woman isn't sexy" shit coming from? Honestly, no one ever said that. Stop pulling stuff out of thin air. 

And it doesn't apply to the other equation because I don't -and I could be wrong - think women look at guys to sell clothes/fashion accesories/etc for them.


----------



## largenlovely

or maybe there are fat men running things and want to see fat men paired with "hot" skinny women.



butch said:


> then that must mean there are more FFAs than not today, or we wouldn't see the fat husband, thin hot wife pairing replicated across the sitcom spectrum..


----------



## tonynyc

RedVelvet said:


> Hitler has been mentioned...Automatic lose.
> 
> Godwin's law...



How about David Dukes - he has a Phd.  

Now back to the topic - my two cents - hey at the end of the day you just have to look in the mirror and feel good about yourself.


----------



## butch

Smite, I don't think 'King of Queens' is trying to sell clothes, and that is what I was talking about, not sex in the city, or any of those 'chicks only' shows. 

I wasn't being hostile or intentionally trying to put words in your mouth, but if you want to be uppity with me even after I clearly told you I had a legitmate question about your perceptions of society and fat folks, then fine. I wasn't out to attack you personally, even if I did disagree with your reasoning.

You also didn't really answer my question, which is fine, too, so if someone else would like to address it, I'm still interested.


----------



## Fascinita

Smite said:


> but assumed that by saying fat women don't sell seems to say that I said fat women aren't sexy.



1) I try to remain reasonably intelligent, impartial, patient and deliberate in how I respond, even if at times I tend to use sarcasm as a tool to make a point. To my credit, after my sarcastic retort, I re-stated my points in straighforward language.

2) If I "assumed" anything, it was because I read it clear as day in what you said. If I read you wrong, explain how. It's not enough to accuse me of hating you and of jumping to conclusions.

3) I have given you a rational argument for why I believe your statement amounts to "fat women are not sexy." Respond in kind or I don't have time to go back and forth arguing what you meant or didn't mean.


----------



## Smite

1. Sarcasm never comes off on the internet well without blatantly telling someone it's sarcasm. That's probably why I jumped the gun because I didn't detect it.

2, 3. I may be wrong, but I don't see the words "fat women aren't sexy" anyweres in that post. The only thing you could even get to form that kind of statement is when I said "sexy", but that was in relation to the actress and not the size.



> Smite, I don't think 'King of Queens' is trying to sell clothes, and that is what I was talking about, not sex in the city, or any of those 'chicks only' shows.



I was using clothes as an example, but almost anything ever made is trying to sell something. I haven't watched much of King of Queens to give you a indepth look at what they're selling, but give me a day and i'll try to get you something to justify it.


----------



## largenlovely

i think i'm just talking to myself........lol


----------



## Smite

largenlovely said:


> i think i'm just talking to myself........lol



No, it's just the argumentative nature of myself and others that are ignoring rationality for petty feuds that will end up being absolutely nothing but that; petty feuds.


----------



## butch

largenlovely said:


> i think i'm just talking to myself........lol



I think we all are on this thread, to some degree. 

I do agree with your response to my question, but I don't think that is the only reason, because as Smite points out, tv exists to sell us stuff, and there is something about fat men that is more conducive to selling stuff on tv than there is for fat women, so why is that? Is it because in general men are allowed to be 'more than' their bodies when they are on tv, and women are expected to be more 'eye candy' than talented actress? If that makes sense, lol.


----------



## mossystate

RedVelvet said:


> Hitler has been mentioned...Automatic lose.
> 
> Godwin's law...





esque.....hitler....esque...that means...training wheels for the person who does not really think someone views them as a hitler...but needs the most dramatic ' oh sure..I'M the bad guy ' bang for his technicolor dollar


oh..and..as for the fat guy/thin women thing on television..I would bet that a majority of people making the decision happen to be men who want to see themselves in those starring roles...they need to see the woman who is the stereotype of attractive..with men who are...well, probably look like what they see in the mirror...women are allowed to be ' more ' on television, and in movies, for the most part, only when talking about looks..we cannot have them be more assertive..more wealthy.more creative...more formally educated...( well, unless they are up for ball busting roles..* eye roll here * )etc...etc..................we CAN let them be the peacock, instead of the peahen...but...only in the looks dept.....male execs need to have fantasy, always at the tip of their fingers/remote control/theater seat


----------



## Fascinita

butch said:


> or we wouldn't see the fat husband, thin hot wife pairing replicated across the sitcom spectrum.



Butch, personally, I think that one of the reasons we may be seeing so many of these "fat husband-thin wife" shows is that it's a silent nod to the reality of our (supposed) growing girth as a nation. It's an admission that "fat exists."

In many ways, I think it may bode well for size acceptance, all these fat guys on TV. 

Then again, there have always been fat guys on TV... Archie Bunker comes to mind. And Jackie Gleason. But the wife remains thin. Fat women--sixty years later--remain invisible....


----------



## Smite

butch said:


> I think we all are on this thread, to some degree.
> 
> I do agree with your response to my question, but I don't think that is the only reason, because as Smite points out, tv exists to sell us stuff, and there is something about fat men that is more conducive to selling stuff on tv than there is for fat women, so why is that? Is it because in general men are allowed to be 'more than' their bodies when they are on tv, and women are expected to be more 'eye candy' than talented actress? If that makes sense, lol.



Because men don't really sell things to men, visually. I don't go onto QVC and go "dang that jacket looks really good on him, I want it", and that's why they don't really do that. They show it on super thin "finger models" and such. 

You know the whole "If she's lovin that, then me + that = her + me" thought process.


----------



## Blackjack

Fascinita said:


> Fat women--sixty years later--remain invisible....



Or, if visible, usually cast in a very negative light.


----------



## Smite

Blackjack said:


> Or, if visible, usually cast in a very negative light.



Best Friend Syndrome


----------



## RedVelvet

mossystate said:


> esque.....hitler....esque...that means...training wheels for the person who does not really think someone views them as a hitler...but needs the most dramatic ' oh sure..I'M the bad guy ' bang for his technicolor dollar




Godwin's law still applies...but it was also humour.


----------



## Blackjack

Smite said:


> Best Friend Syndrome



Actually I was referring to fat-wife-in-bathrobe-and-curlers-with-rolling-pin-waiting-for-well-meaning-but-retarded-male-lead type roles.


----------



## butch

Smite said:


> Because men don't really sell things to men, visually. I don't go onto QVC and go "dang that jacket looks really good on him, I want it", and that's why they don't really do that. They show it on super thin "finger models" and such.
> 
> You know the whole "If she's lovin that, then me + that = her + me" thought process.



But men do respond to commercials that don't fit that definition, don't they? I was watching a CSI marathon on father's day on Spike, and I kept seeing commercials for guy things that had nothing to do with attracting women, at least in how the commercials were created. Commercials for auto parts, where the love was for the car, and no women at all in the commercial, is one example.

So, we all respond to visual images on tv, and I remember once reading that the clothing budget for The King of Queens was huge because Kevin James and the other male cast members wore a lot of logo t shirts on the show, for designers and for NFL teams, for example. I doubt this had no effect at all on the purchasing habits of men.


----------



## Fascinita

Perhaps our problem as fat women is that, since we lack the ability to wear clothing on our bodies, designers feel no need to make clothes for us, thereby pre-empting the need to advertise to our demographic on TV.

Likewise, perhaps the other side of this coin is that, since women are only responsible for about 80% of all purchases made in the U.S., advertisers feel no need to try to convince us to buy _their_ stuff. Better to spend all that advertising money on that male demographic that makes the other 20% of the purchases. What do they call that? Pennywise, pound-foolish....??

That explains why there are no fat women on TV! (That plus some other stuff about QVC that I don't fully "get.")



(and it case it wasn't clear...)



Or perhaps the real reasons have to do with fatphobia and misogyny? Just a thought....


----------



## Smite

butch said:


> But men do respond to commercials that don't fit that definition, don't they? I was watching a CSI marathon on father's day on Spike, and I kept seeing commercials for guy things that had nothing to do with attracting women, at least in how the commercials were created. Commercials for auto parts, where the love was for the car, and no women at all in the commercial, is one example.
> 
> So, we all respond to visual images on tv, and I remember once reading that the clothing budget for The King of Queens was huge because Kevin James and the other male cast members wore a lot of logo t shirts on the show, for designers and for NFL teams, for example. I doubt this had no effect at all on the purchasing habits of men.



I was just focusing solely on clothes sold on a station dedicated to only selling, not as a blanket statement (hence "visually"). As for other items...ever see Jackie Brown? QT did the perfect spoof on "Hot Chicks with Guns" or whatever it was called.


----------



## Smite

Fascinita said:


> Perhaps our problem as fat women is that, lacking the ability to wear clothing on our bodies, designers feel no need to make clothes for us, thereby pre-empting the need to advertise to our demographic on TV.
> 
> Likewise, perhaps the other side of this coin is that, since women are only responsible for about 80% of all purchases made in the U.S., advertisers feel no need to try to convince us to buy _their_ stuff.
> 
> That explains why there are no fat women on TV! (That plus some other stuff about QVC that I don't fully "get.")
> 
> 
> 
> (and it case it wasn't clear...)



We aren't discussing why there isn't fat women on tv, we were discussing why fat women with a prominent role aren't paired with thin guys on TV, and why fat guys are paired with thin girls.

EDIT: This is just going round and round with everything I say you misreading as some negative response against BBW's, because you're looking for that. Feel free to take your pot shots, i'm done with this.


----------



## mossystate

RedVelvet said:


> Godwin's law still applies...but it was also humour.



i know...i know..


----------



## Fascinita

Smite said:


> We aren't discussing why there isn't fat women on tv, we were discussing why fat women with a prominent role aren't paired with thin guys on TV, and why fat guys are paired with thin girls.



Oh, so I lose on a technicality? Really? Gosh. You're smart.

That's convenient.

Oh, I also like how, after you pointed out your "technicality," you shut the door on the discussion.

Buh-bye. Bee seeing you around.  Toodle-oh. And so on.


----------



## Smite

I'm not getting into a semantics pissing match. No matter what I'll say you'll just spin it around, which I respect, since it's a amazing skill to have.


----------



## RedVelvet

I love how you are both complimenting each other whilst fighting.


Fascinita...I totally get what you are saying, and agree...buggerfuck part of it?...Seems lotsa fat women prefer clothing modeled on thinner women.....

_OR SO WE ARE TOLD...(dun dun daaaaaa!)_



Otherwize, I agree totally.


----------



## mossystate

* gives Fasc more water, so she produces more urine *







i know..i know...but...this thread is so full of goodness..every turn..every darkened alley!


----------



## Fascinita

butch said:


> tv exists to sell us stuff, and there is something about fat men that is more conducive to selling stuff on tv than there is for fat women, so why is that? Is it because in general men are allowed to be 'more than' their bodies when they are on tv, and women are expected to be more 'eye candy' than talented actress? If that makes sense, lol.



Butch, I suspect the answer to your question is that the TV doesn't just exist to sell us "stuff," but to sell us our image of ourselves and to define "power" for us. In turn, that image of ourselves helps sell us "stuff."

After all, who has the proof that fat men are more conducive to selling stuff on TV than fat women? If we just say that "it must be so, because that's the way it is," we are being naive and avoiding stirring the pot, I think. 

And women have more "consumer power" (let's call it that) than men, generally speaking. And the average woman is a size 14.

So your suggestion that we are "allowed" (or not) to be visible in our bodies is important, I think. Who is it that "allows" men to be "more than their bodies"? It is us, our culture. The more captive and subjugated women are, the more we can manipulated emotionally through exclusion, the more docile we are as consumers. In terms of what's productive for a culture that runs on consuming and advertisement, the dynamic could not be any more efficient: A majority of consumers made to consume through fear of exclusion (this is not just my theory, it is a long-standing motto of sorts in Big Advertising that the best way to sell any product is through subtle fear)... which is why the diet industry is so huge, for starters.

And this is why I think it's important to assert that we, as fat women, won't stand for second class status as consumers of TV entertainment. And that when we see people insinuate that fat women are not on TV because they don't sell because they're not sexy, we RECOGNIZE that as part of the discourse that tries to define our image for us... _We "should" be thin, because only thin women are sexy, and so go buy this diet product..._ After all, all the sexy people are on TV, and they're mostly thin, except for a few fat men who get exempted as a nod to the reality that we are surrounded by fat people. It is subtle, and clearly many do buy into it, whole hog... to the point where they treat it as a God-given religious truth. That's just the facts, they say. But they fail to realize how the "facts" have been manipulated collectively, and that they as individuals have swallowed the ersatz "facts" hook-line-and-sinker.

Because it is "us" (the culture that we operate in) that has to change, it is us (fat women) that have to be the first agents of that change.


----------



## Fascinita

Smite said:


> I'm not getting into a semantics pissing match. No matter what I'll say you'll just spin it around, which I respect, since it's a amazing skill to have.



You already said you were "outtie" so what are you doing hanging around?

Can't enough of my spin, can you?


----------



## Smite

I'll let the video do the talking.


----------



## Fascinita

RedVelvet said:


> I_OR SO WE ARE TOLD...(dun dun daaaaaa!)_



Yeah, well... This is the doozy part, RV. Who is it that tells you this?

Mind you, I think fat women play along. The discourse is simply too pervasive. We do buy into it.

I don't mean me, cuz I sure as hell don't. For the most part. I have an occasional bad day here and there. It's just hard not to buy into "the truth," you know? It's a version of reality that's presented very aggressively by everyone around us... So many of us have stories of our mothers, our sisters, our aunts being the first to try to enforce that code of thinness. Well, where did _they_ get it from? 

It's everywhere. But it is not inevitable. All it takes is fat women saying, "I am _so_ sexy. Go Smite yourself." If enough of "us" do that, sooner or later, the discourse will begin to change until the tide turns.


----------



## Fascinita

Smite said:


> I'll let the video do the talking.



lol... I'm patting you on the head. I love that song.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Fascinita said:


> Perhaps our problem as fat women is that, since we lack the ability to wear clothing on our bodies, designers feel no need to make clothes for us, thereby pre-empting the need to advertise to our demographic on TV.
> 
> Likewise, perhaps the other side of this coin is that, since women are only responsible for about 80% of all purchases made in the U.S., advertisers feel no need to try to convince us to buy _their_ stuff. Better to spend all that advertising money on that male demographic that makes the other 20% of the purchases. What do they call that? Pennywise, pound-foolish....??
> 
> That explains why there are no fat women on TV! (That plus some other stuff about QVC that I don't fully "get.")
> 
> 
> 
> (and it case it wasn't clear...)
> 
> 
> 
> Or perhaps the real reasons have to do with fatphobia and misogyny? Just a thought....





RedVelvet said:


> I love how you are both complimenting each other whilst fighting.
> 
> 
> Fascinita...I totally get what you are saying, and agree...buggerfuck part of it?...Seems lotsa fat women prefer clothing modeled on thinner women.....
> 
> _OR SO WE ARE TOLD...(dun dun daaaaaa!)_
> 
> 
> 
> Otherwize, I agree totally.



That was actually the first thing that came to mind when I read Fascinita's post....even some of the damn catalogs the sell EXCLUSIVELY TO FAT WOMEN can't even use models that wear the smallest size in the catalog. I have never seen even a chubby model in a lane bryant/women within catalog....and it annoys me.


----------



## Fascinita

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> That was actually the first thing that came to mind when I read Fascinita's post....even some of the damn catalogs the sell EXCLUSIVELY TO FAT WOMEN can't even use models that wear the smallest size in the catalog. I have never seen even a chubby model in a lane bryant/women within catalog....and it annoys me.



That just means the discourse that mandates thinness works only too well, Green. A lot of fat people (not just fat women) clearly do buy into the "thin is in" philosophy, hating themselves for being fat, hating the sight of fat bodies for being fat. A lot of fat people at one point or another aspire to thinness, thinking that "when" they are thin, everything will be better. They live in perpetual shame over being fat. 

No wonder, then, that some fat women might prefer to see thin models in catalogues, associating clothing modeled by fat people as "ugly" clothing because they have come to believe their own fat bodies, and fat bodies in general, are hideous. It takes a lot of internal work sometimes to shake off the gaze of shame that we look at our bodies with, to come to see a chubby "apple" body, or a dimply pair of thunder thighs as "sexy" and not defficient (defficient in its excess of flesh in certain places, ironically) in perfect womanly charms.

There is no question that many fat people are complicit in our own oppression. It is not easy to escape it. Everyone else hates fat. We are often no different on that count. We play along in the fat-hating game just like everyone else. This is why it's important to not buy platitudes and tired non-truths about what fat women are and are not, can and can't do.

On the other hand, LB catalog is one of those old stalwarts from the Stone Ages of fat repression. Many newer merchants are choosing plumper models, though we need more super size models, for sure.


----------



## largenlovely

I don't disagree that sometimes fat women project their hatred of their bodies and such...but we should also be realistic here. Outside of this community is a real fat hating world that deems we are not sexy. I honestly don't feel that smite ever said fat women weren't sexy...i believe he was saying that the general public and those who sell stuff on tv believe that fat women aren't sexy and therefore don't allow us in those roles. There's really no denying that those people must feel that way.



Fascinita said:


> This is why it's important to not buy platitudes and tired non-truths about what fat women are and are not, can and can't do.


----------



## Fascinita

Smite said:


> No, because again you're saying that what I said was my personal opinion, which wasn't and never will be. You didn't even ask for what I meant, but assumed that by saying fat women don't sell seems to say that I said fat women aren't sexy.
> 
> Someone asked why there's never fat women with handsome skinny guys, and I answered. It wasn't a statment or personal opinion of mine. It was the damn truth, and will be until fa's far outnumber people who like skinny girls. Until then, if you're trying to make money, and you know Jessica Biel/Simposon/Alba is going to automatically put $25 million in your bank account, then whats the incentive to not use one of them?
> 
> But go ahead, turn it into a spin against how I hate fat women and i'm this hitler-esqe figure.





largenlovely said:


> I honestly don't feel that smite ever said fat women weren't sexy...i believe he was saying that the general public and those who sell stuff on tv believe that fat women aren't sexy and therefore don't allow us in those roles.




LL, what he actually said was that "the damn truth" is that most "people... like skinny girls," and that it was therefore not economically viable for TV producers to put fat women on TV. Then he mentioned Hitler , apparently under the assumption that it would win the debate for him.

But seriously, if you've read all of my posts responding to Smite's claims, you've seen that I have tried to counter his "fat women don't sell" argument with what I believe is a more proactive size-positive view. You've also seen, no doubt, that my first premise is that there is a pervasive cultural mandate to thinness... I hope then, that there's no further need to answer the part of your post above where you call for an acknowledgment that fat hatred in the "outside world" is real. That's a given.

We need to go beyond stoic acknowledgment that the world is not a fat-friendly place, however. We need to understand how the discourse of fatphobia is used against us, _even to exploit us_. We need to examine it and figure out a way to work against it. And we certainly shouldn't let its rhetoric slip from our tongues, preaching it as if it were "the damn truth." If we simply, passively accept the status quo as a de facto condition of our reality, without challenging its validity, as Smite casually assumes we should accept it--because it's the "damn truth"!!--we put ourselves in a position of never being able to expect change--we tie our own hands.

You state above that you are aware that the larger world is not as enlightened about size acceptance as we tend to be here at Dimensions. I am not a proponent of staying forever within a relatively small bubble of acceptance. I would like to see acceptance spread throughout our culture. This is why it's important not to buy into the discourse that says "fat women don't sell TV ads and we can't do a thing about it," as Smite suggests when he says there is no incentive whatever to show fat women on TV.

NOTA BENE: Just to make it clear, in case it's not: Attempts at countering a person's argument do not constitute attacks on that person. In other words, none of this is personal. It bears repeating, because I do believe it's easy to mistake "arguments" for "attacks."


----------



## largenlovely

when you add that part it changes the whole statement though. 

I never said not to do anything about it, i just said that stating that the outside world does not see things necessarily as we do is not a fat hating statement and doesn't necessarily mean that someone is anti-fat. I think it's a realistic outlook. Do i mean that it shouldn't be changed? absolutely not. 



Fascinita said:


> LL,
> You state above that you are aware that the larger world is not as enlightened about size acceptance as we tend to be here at Dimensions. I am not a proponent of staying forever within a relatively small bubble of acceptance. I would like to see acceptance spread throughout our culture. This is why it's important not to buy into the discourse that says "fat women don't sell TV ads *and we can't do a thing about it*," as Smite suggests when he says there is no incentive whatever to show fat women on TV."


----------



## ripley

Fascinita said:


> they have come to believe their own fat bodies, and fat bodies in general, are hideous. It takes a lot of internal work sometimes to shake off the gaze of shame that we look at our bodies with, to come to see a chubby "apple" body, or a dimply pair of thunder thighs as "sexy" and not defficient (defficient in its excess of flesh in certain places, ironically) in perfect womanly charms.





largenlovely said:


> Outside of this community is a real fat hating world that deems we are not sexy. I honestly don't feel that smite ever said fat women weren't sexy...i believe he was saying that the general public and those who sell stuff on tv believe that fat women aren't sexy and therefore don't allow us in those roles. There's really no denying that those people must feel that way.





I think that it does Size Acceptance a disservice, all the "they don't see fat women as sexy!!" stuff. I don't care if the larger world doesn't deem me "sexy"...all I want is for my body to be seen as okay, as acceptable, as having a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.



Back to your regularly scheduled train wreck.


----------



## largenlovely

it might not be right, but you can't deny that it's obviously how they feel. 



ripley said:


> I think that it does Size Acceptance a disservice, all the "they don't see fat women as sexy!!" stuff. I don't care if the larger world doesn't deem me "sexy"...all I want is for my body to be seen as okay, as acceptable, as having a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
> 
> 
> 
> Back to your regularly scheduled train wreck.


----------



## ripley

largenlovely said:


> it might not be right, but you can't deny that it's obviously how they feel.



Oh, I know it's how they feel, I wasn't saying that. I just think that trying to get them from repulsed to finding us sexy is sort of irrelevant.


----------



## largenlovely

oh i see...yeah, i think acceptance would naturally be the next step from repulsion and then hopefully one day we'll be regarded as sexy. 

I guess my whole point above was that, stating what is true is not anti-fat. It suuuucks because it is true lol, but it's not anti fat. 



ripley said:


> Oh, I know it's how they feel, I wasn't saying that. I just think that trying to get them from repulsed to finding us sexy is sort of irrelevant.


----------



## stefanie

butch said:


> I do agree with your response to my question, but I don't think that is the only reason, because as Smite points out, tv exists to sell us stuff, and there is something about fat men that is more conducive to selling stuff on tv than there is for fat women, so why is that? Is it because in general men are allowed to be 'more than' their bodies when they are on tv, and women are expected to be more 'eye candy' than talented actress? If that makes sense, lol.



I don't claim to have watched every show that has the fat guy/thin wife meme. In many, the fat man is largely a buffoon. That doesn't mean he isn't lovable or has no appeal. But often he is lovable in the same sense that a clown is. I'm thinking back to Jackie Gleason in "The Honeymooners," where Ralph Cramden (sp?) is fat, lower-middle class, kind of crass. His wife is always scheming with her girlfriend to put something over on him. (This made up a lot of the sitcom funny in "The Flintstones.") Then we got The Simpsons and Family Guy, and *perhaps* John Goodman in "Roseanne" (which I didn't watch.)

The theme of dishonesty - deception - getting caught and shamed - then making up is also pretty common. As I see it, the fat man in these stories is somewhat made "acceptable" by the wife's eventual forgiveness ("he's just a big dumb lug but she loves him anyway.")

A more complicated fat man on TV is Hurley in LOST. He was "given" a love interest (Libby) by the creators, but two things happened. She was killed off before the relationship could come to fruition. Also, there was something shady and strange about her (too complicated to go into here), but the sense many viewers got from Libby is that she was pursuing Hurley for ulterior motives, and didn't really care for him for himself. Again, too, Hurley often finds himself in the comic, buffoon-like role. It's also interesting that of all the leading men in LOST, Hurley is the one you never see shirtless ...

I hope this is not tl;dr. It is a whole complicated thing, this fat man/thin woman TV theme, but those are at least a few of my beginning thoughts about it.


----------



## ripley

It just seems like to me that a lot of people use SA totally for sex-related advancements, and there is so much more! I know I myself don't do enough, and use it more for social outlets than anything else. 


Dunno, just thinking out loud.


----------



## Santaclear

I still don't get it.


----------



## Fascinita

ripley said:


> I think that it does Size Acceptance a disservice, all the "they don't see fat women as sexy!!" stuff. I don't care if the larger world doesn't deem me "sexy"...all I want is for my body to be seen as okay, as acceptable, as having a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
> 
> 
> 
> Back to your regularly scheduled train wreck.



Yeah, the sexy-nonsexy divide is what's used against us. And it's why we have to define ourselves for ourselves. And it's why I'm offended when I see someone casually make an argument that the real prejudices that exists against fat women out there are merely based on economic considerations. In other words, that if it were just more lucrative to show fat women on TV, producers would race to put dozens of Roseanne lookalikes on primetime.

What I'm saying is that that argument is wrong. The entertainment/advertisement concerns as we know them act from the assumption that what's most lucrative is NOT to put fat women on TV, since--according to them--it's the negative sell that sells best. 

Really, what's being broadcast, by "exclusion" so to speak, is a scripted dynamic that shows us all what's acceptable (skinny) while it "hides" what's not acceptable (fat bodies, but especially fat FEMALE bodies.)

The reality is that _it's the prejudice_ that facilitates the exploitation of millions of fat people. In other words, the choice to exclude fat women from positions of respect in the cultural/entertainment landscape acts to keep fat women "in their place"--a place defined by fear-based consumerism (remembering the statistitics that over 80% of consumer purchases are made by women, and that the average woman is a size 14).

That is the opposite of "the prejudice comes after economic considerations," as Smite claimed, which is kind of the same as saying "we can't do a thing about it," since nobody would willingly volunteer to lose money. We can, too, do something about it. As it works now, the discourse of thinness is just a mechanism that happens to be very productive in terms of getting the right people (the women who make 80% of consumer choices) to spend money on things like diet products. But it might as well be another mechanism... all that advertisers care about is money, but they have no incentive to change their anti-fat M.O. unless we give them one... Why should they change practices on their own that have proven lucrative for decades?

The rhetoric of "fat women just ain't sexy enough to sell" really does tie in to disrespect for life, liberty and all those good things you mentioned, ripley. Because, ultimately, that rhetoric is applied in ways that affect not just our sex lives, but how we carry ourselves, how we value ourselves, the way our doctors treat us, and even the value that others give us and our work, as you know.

Really, it's up to _us_ to stop buying into the discourse that allows industry to take its profits based on wholesale disrespect for fatties.

Anyway, it's been real, ladies. Gotta go hit the hay soon. See y'around.


----------



## stan_der_man

Santaclear said:


> I still don't get it.



What I've learned so far on Dimensions is that BBWs suffer more than BHMs, feeders are OK, discussion of "water sports" is kosher, but mention of anal sex will get you censored.

Hope that helps.




BTW... Only 3 more pages until Shoshie's notorious thread is knocked out of the record books.


----------



## ripley

Fascinita said:


> *snip*
> 
> The rhetoric of "fat women just ain't sexy enough to sell" really does tie in to disrespect for life, liberty and all those good things you mentioned, ripley. Because, ultimately, that rhetoric is applied in ways that affect not just our sex lives, but how we carry ourselves, how we value ourselves, the way our doctors treat us, and even the value that others give us and our work, as you know.
> 
> Really, it's up to _us_ to stop buying into the discourse that allows industry to take its profits based on wholesale disrespect for fatties.
> 
> Anyway, it's been real, ladies. Gotta go hit the hay soon. See y'around.




Yes, I agree with you. What I am thinking is that fighting them on that field of "what is sexy" is screwing us, in the end.


----------



## Spanky

ripley said:


> Yes, I agree with you. What I am thinking is that fighting them on that field of "what is sexy" is screwing us, in the end.



Rip, do you think that fat women have a tougher road with respect to size acceptance than men because the opposite sex is more or less accepting. IMO, women in general are more accepting to a wider range of male bodies than are men with women's bodies. 

OR are we dealing with MEN accepting men's bodies more and women accepting women's bodies less with the cultural/societal resultant we are hashing here on this thread. 

What I mean is who is driving this boat?? I really don't think it is a couple of stogie sucking white males on 5th Avenue. If fat was accepted in society, the blood suckers would be selling it. I guarantee that. I can see that fat men are by in large more accepted than fat women. Together, both are still VERY disrespected as a whole. 

Just wondering what you think.... (or anyone else).


----------



## ripley

Spanky said:


> Rip, do you think that fat women have a tougher road with respect to size acceptance than men because the opposite sex is more or less accepting. IMO, women in general are more accepting to a wider range of male bodies than are men with women's bodies.
> 
> OR are we dealing with MEN accepting men's bodies more and women accepting women's bodies less with the cultural/societal resultant we are hashing here on this thread.
> 
> What I mean is who is driving this boat?? I really don't think it is a couple of stogie sucking white males on 5th Avenue. If fat was accepted in society, the blood suckers would be selling it. I guarantee that. I can see that fat men are by in large more accepted than fat women. Together, both are still VERY disrespected as a whole.
> 
> Just wondering what you think.... (or anyone else).



No, I don't think it's a couple of white Madison Avenue men completely responsible. I think that a lot of fat people themselves revile fatness. It's really pervasive. Sometimes other fat people are some of the worst for being vocally anti-fat.

I'm not sure what explains the fat men that are in Hollywood. It seems to be typecast, a stereotype...the fat funny guy, semi-buffoon. 

It seems to me that besides gender there is a race component too; I know I was pleased to see a fat black woman on the Pinesol commercials. I don't know if we'll see a fat white woman of that size selling anything soon, but I'm hopeful that she's paving the way.

When I watch TV I look at the people in scenes, not just the main characters, but the background, and I rarely (never?) see fat people. It's like they scrub us out of the world. It's pretty disturbing. 

Ugh, and don't get me started on women in fat suits. We're only palatable to the media if we're fake, and can take off the fat suit when we're done and cry about how tough it was for us for an afternoon.


----------



## Shosh

fa_man_stan said:


> What I've learned so far on Dimensions is that BBWs suffer more than BHMs, feeders are OK, discussion of "water sports" is kosher, but mention of anal sex will get you censored.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BTW... Only 3 more pages until Shoshie's notorious thread is knocked out of the record books.




 Keep those posts coming people!


----------



## Santaclear

This feels like the I'm the guy who hates the hot guy thread telethon.


----------



## Carl1h

I'm amazed that this thread is becoming interesting and, dare I say... useful?

Can we get more fat women on television? How do we do that?

Please don't stop now when something useful is actually being discussed!


----------



## Dr. P Marshall

I can't believe I'm wading into this thread. And at this point. But I am seeing a lot of discussion of the entertainment industry and marketing and I have a few things I'd like to throw out there. 

The real answer to this question in terms of entertainment OVERALL is that if you want to see more BBW on tv, make sure more FAs end up in focus groups. Im not being flippant. I understand the statistic about womens purchasing power, but here is the dirty little secret of the entertainment industry, the largest two demographics they aim for are still men. Nothing has changed in terms of demographics sought since the 1980s. It hasn't. Combined these groups would comprise men roughly ages 15-50(depending on the show, etc.) I know that sitcoms seem to be about the entire family, but the advertising blocks especially from 9-11pm are for products aimed at men. The only block of television where the advertisers shoot for the female demographic is daytime. Soap operas through Oprah/Ellen, etc. Shows like Sex in the City dont even work on the same premise. What happens there is someone pitches an idea and because Manolo Blahnik will put up part of the budget if the shoes are constantly mentioned, voila, the shoes are constantly mentioned. They use product placement to determine budget and marketability on cable, not commercial advertising. That's why some cable channels even have local commercials blocked for part of the time. Really, the only major network show that uses product placement for financing is "The Office." The rest use their commercial blocks for revenue. 

As for men being more accepted, I think it shouldnt be seen as too much of a victory for fat men. I am an FFA and I find Kevin James attractive, but the reality is, no one who gave Kevin James a show did so because they thought anyone would find him attractive. They did it because he was a stand up comedian who was pulling in enough money (And a personal friend of Ray Romano) and they gave him a deal and he set the show up around it. It appears he was going for a bit of a more lovable "Honeymooners" vibe, but I could be wrong. But once the pilot was shot, it was most likely shown to a focus group, of MEN. Now, that does not mean that women cant do anything about this. Or that FAs cant do anything about this. In fact, in another post, I saw someone mention the character Hurley on lost. The writers of that show read the fan sites and web sites and when they saw an outcry for a love interest for Hurley, they decided to try it. Who knows what would have happened had the actress who played her not been arrested while they were shooting that season. But there are shows like 24 where the writers freely admit to taking into account what they read on the official and sometimes unofficial fan sites. The point is, money does talk and so does viewership. If you like a BBW actress, see every show and movie shes in. And make sure you see the movie in the theater if at all possible. It counts more. Unless it's only chance is as a word of mouth DVD cult classic, then rent it or better yet, buy it. Only then will SHE have the clout to make better decisions about her career choices. I know Queen Latifah is not so favored around here at the moment, but her career is a great example of what can happen when a pure talent and engaging beautiful woman gets her chance. Shes played love interests. She is an African American BBW. This should have been unheard of, right? But the truth is she built enough of a following and proved herself at the box office and in other mediums and now she can do whatever she wants. She has her own production company. 

I agree that the culture of thinness is pushed by advertising and entertainment. But it is also a factor of what sells. This is, more than ever, the era of surveys, focus groups and other market research in entertainment as in everything else. So to change things, women need to speak up and men who love fat women need to speak up. The problem is, it will take A LOT of people speaking up to overcome the status quo. As I said at the beginning of this post, the realities of purchasing decisions is not actually looked at by the entertainment industry. They still believe that young men spend more or at least spend more on larger ticket items and unnecessary purchases. It may not be accurate, it may be sexist, but their research tells them that a man is more likely to buy beer, or a big screen TV or a video game. And those are bigger ticket items and those companies are more likely to pay the extra money that is charged during primetime. If you look at sports advertising, you can get an even better idea. There are plenty of female sports fans, but I just watched the NBA finals and really every beer commercial implied that only men watch sports or drink beer. We know this is not true, but something in the market research has convinced them men BUY more beer. Really, maybe more men take online surveys, but they have come to this conclusion through more than just their own prejudices. 

And to answer Spankys question, in college we once examined a case study in an entertainment business class about beer commercials. It showed that men actually PREFERRED men who looked like them rather than pretty boys. This is not to say that all BBW dont like themselves or anything like that, but the focus groups must have women who prefer the women you see on TV and the same for the men. Maybe it is just fat phobia from all types. Or maybe it is that activists of any sort, since they tend to see through the bullshit remove themselves too hastily from the world of mass marketing. In other words, maybe fighting within the system would get more done sometimes. Whether it's going to work in the industry or signing up for one of those stupid Greenfield online type survey groups. Or send emails or go and participate on the web sites of certain shows and networks. Because the execs are watching, the writers are watching and the next group who will be pitching ideas tomorrow are watching.

I think it can be changed, but not over night. And the way to change it is complex. It will require finding BBW actresses, models and such and giving them vehicles for their initial emergence in the business. Thats really the only way to have anyone whose career you can back in the first place. It is unbelievably difficult to get something green lit in TV or film. They are going to go with the greatest number of sure things most of the time. Lost is an exception because it was based on its creators marketability, not its cast. But in terms of sitcoms and films, youre looking at a small number of people of any race/gender/body type that must be attached for something to even be considered. And then its run through marketing. And that leads to focus groups. And then, if it's a big studio production, it is often run through 1-3 series of test screenings. And sometimes even more focus groups. And yes, there is terror of anything different from what they have been using for the past 50 years. But if enough people DO speak up, they will not override that. I guarantee it. They would rather sell you YOUR(this is the general you and your) agenda than not sell you anything at all. 

The great thing about the internet and digital age is that more people have access to lower cost means of production. Some peoples careers came off of youtube (Andy Samberg, for example). Maybe, and I am being deadly serious, the thing to do is create size accepting content of your own. If you can get enough people to view it, and talk about it on the internet, you may just get a meeting at a TV studio. Or make a digital film. If you can market yourself or your project cleverly enough, or you can get enough buzz on your own, they will listen. The issue of ending fat phobia, though, is tougher. That requires making fat acceptance mainstream. It means making that the status quo, and so far, no one has figured out how to do that on a large scale. Yet. But I still think in this age of marketing research being king, you can harass anyone by proving that enough of their customers want a change, be it Lane Bryant or CBS. You'd just have to figure out how to get enough people who believe in size acceptance to speak up or to at least be the people the companies pull the data from. 

So, its not as simple as a conspiracy, nor is it as simple as just money talks. It can be overcome in my opinion, but it will take a large movement. On many fronts. Greetings from Los Angeles.

Oh, and CBS? Their entertainment president is a woman. So, it's not as simple as getting women in positions of power. Although still underrepresented, there are many very powerful women already in place and still nothing has changed. And that is because really it is a BUSINESS first and foremost and entertainment/art form second.


----------



## wrestlingguy

William said:


> Hi
> 
> My primary goal in this thread is to turn back comments that have been made in this thread that I have in some way said that the Hot Boy Thread is bad and that I spoke against the Hot Boy Thread.
> 
> I have never said anything about physical attraction either.
> 
> The statement that I have been making is clear and very precise, *if you are going to add issues then you need to answer them yourself* and leave me out of it.
> 
> William





> Originally Posted by *William*
> *I used the Hot Boy Thread as a visual representation of Society's disinterest/repulsion of Fat Men. *At the time that I mentioned the Hot Boy Thread there was very little representation of Fat Males on it and it made a great visual aid. That was on another Thread where the subject was again the level of bias that Fat Men face.





> Originally posted by *Wrestlingguy*
> *I am wondering if William equates disinterest with repulsion? *I think they're two separate issues, but I'd like to know his thoughts. I know William has said he never said that women didn't have it tough, in fact he agreed that they may have it tougher than men. I hope I am correct in asking this (especially after 20 + pages of getting to it), but *is William saying that physical attraction comes after acceptance?*




Sorry, I worked late last night, and missed all the fun. William, it seems to me that *you* made this point, not me, and again I requested clarification from you, and you respond by saying you won't respond. William, I wouldn't have asked the question of you if your comment was clear & precise.

Again, I might have been born at night, but I wasn't born last night, and your refusal to clear up a very elementary point in my attempt to discuss this with you indicates to me that you either:
1. will not engage me because your argument cannot hold water.
2. you do not care that I am attempting to look for the truths in your points.
3. "know" that I am an idiot and wouldn't take the time to explain.
4. are so focused on your "cause" that you have tunnel vision.
5. all of the above.
6. none of the above.

I was always good at multiple choice questions, hopefully you can be too!!!!

Please understand, my friend, that this is not a slam or putdown of you at all. I simply requested clarification of an issue that you have now in 2 posts refused to (or was unable or unwilling to) clarify.


----------



## cute_obese_girl

Adding to Dr. P's take on the entertainment industry I'd like to add that even though women are getting high up positions in the studios and networks, the writers behind the shows themselves are by and large male still. When you look at novelists and playwrights there are a much higher percentage of female writers, but when you look at the Writer's Guild of American for movies and TV, it is far less. I'm upset I can't find the exact figure right now, but women represented far less than 50% of the guild. Shonda Rhimes is one of the most successful tv writers, and look at Grey's Anatomy. All kinds of diversity going on in that show and people watch it. More women need to break into the creative side of the entertainment industry, not just the business side. Hopefully I'll be one of them someday and for sure I will have some fat characters.


----------



## Dr. P Marshall

cute_obese_girl said:


> Adding to Dr. P's take on the entertainment industry I'd like to add that even though women are getting high up positions in the studios and networks, the writers behind the shows themselves are by and large male still. When you look at novelists and playwrights there are a much higher percentage of female writers, but when you look at the Writer's Guild of American for movies and TV, it is far less. I'm upset I can't find the exact figure right now, but women represented far less than 50% of the guild. Shonda Rhimes is one of the most successful tv writers, and look at Grey's Anatomy. All kinds of diversity going on in that show and people watch it. More women need to break into the creative side of the entertainment industry, not just the business side. Hopefully I'll be one of them someday and for sure I will have some fat characters.



WGA female membership as of 2007 was 24.2%.


----------



## William

Hi

I have wrote paragraphs of stuff on these subjects and the only thing you seemed to want to talk about is why I had a beef with the Hot Boy Thread!!

Historically Fat Acceptance has not seemed willing to include Fat Men in the Fat Acceptance dialog beyond subjects such as the fact that Fat Men are more accepted than Fat Women or the fact that there are more Fat Men in entertainment than Fat Women.

As a Fat Man I say that there is more to the story. If any other minority was so pigeon-holed and stereotyped by a majority of a population it would been deemed a problem, but not in Fat Acceptance.

Already this thread has reverted to the classic Fat Acceptance Fat Man Topic Fat Men in Entertainment

If I have tunnel vision then it is caused be the tiny amount of Acceptance of the experiences of Fat Men by Fat Acceptance. 

William








wrestlingguy said:


> Sorry, I worked late last night, and missed all the fun. William, it seems to me that *you* made this point, not me, and again I requested clarification from you, and you respond by saying you won't respond. William, I wouldn't have asked the question of you if your comment was clear & precise.
> 
> Again, I might have been born at night, but I wasn't born last night, and your refusal to clear up a very elementary point in my attempt to discuss this with you indicates to me that you either:
> 1. will not engage me because your argument cannot hold water.
> 2. you do not care that I am attempting to look for the truths in your points.
> 3. "know" that I am an idiot and wouldn't take the time to explain.
> 4. are so focused on your "cause" that you have tunnel vision.
> 5. all of the above.
> 6. none of the above.
> 
> I was always good at multiple choice questions, hopefully you can be too!!!!
> 
> Please understand, my friend, that this is not a slam or putdown of you at all. I simply requested clarification of an issue that you have now in 2 posts refused to (or was unable or unwilling to) clarify.


----------



## Spanky

William said:


> Hi
> 
> I have wrote paragraphs of stuff on these subjects and the only thing you seemed to want to talk about is why I had a beef with the Hot Boy Thread!!
> 
> Historically Fat Acceptance has not seemed willing to include Fat Men in the Fat Acceptance dialog beyond subjects such as the fact that Fat Men are more accepted than Fat Women or the fact that there are more Fat Men in entertainment than Fat Women.
> 
> As a Fat Man I say that there is more to the story. If any other minority was so pigeon-holed and stereotyped by a majority of a population it would been deemed a problem, but not in Fat Acceptance.
> 
> Already this thread has reverted to the classic Fat Acceptance Fat Man Topic Fat Men in Entertainment
> 
> If I have tunnel vision then it is caused be the tiny amount of Acceptance of the experiences of Fat Men by Fat Acceptance.
> 
> William



William,

I wanted to ask Ripley a question specifically to her point late last night. I wasn't trying to divert the conversation from your OP. I am not a fat person and while I adore fat women and want to see more of them in the media, I was trying to get her opinion regarding same gender and opposite gender preferences regarding the fat people of that gender. 

I always thought fat men were a little more accepted than fat women in our American society. I was asking ripley what she thought of that. I would be interested in what BHMs think of that. 

Some of these discussions are very eye-opening to me. It is was CAN move SA forward. Better understanding comes through dialog and communication. And I know this or any other topic has been discussed probably a dozen times before. A fresh start from time to time can help. Remember, newbies abound, for them, this is the FIRST discussion of this they have EVER read ANYWHERE. 

:bow:


----------



## stefanie

ripley said:


> When I watch TV I look at the people in scenes, not just the main characters, but the background, and I rarely (never?) see fat people. It's like they scrub us out of the world. It's pretty disturbing.



That trend has gotten worse with time. We are re-watching the old Babylon 5 TV show on DVD (it's about 15 years old now, roughly), and there are *all kinds* of people in the background scenes. (Apparently they staffed the crowd scenes with the office and construction staffs, so they really were "ordinary folks." But it almost gives you a little "shock" to see fatter people just sitting or walking around chatting in the space station "shopping mall" / public space scenes.)

We just watched a re-make of _The Andromeda Strain_ on the Sci-Fi channel. Everyone was "prettied up." By contrast, the old (1971 or so) AS cast the lead woman - a middle-aged scientist - with a heavy-set, "ordinary" looking woman, who did a great job in the role. In the remake, her character was cast by an attractive, buff young man. 

*Dr. P Marshall*, good points about LOST and Hurley's "love interest" coming from the fans who read and participate on the various LOST forums. One more LOST comment: the men are highly diverse in build, appearance, personality. But not so the women. The middle-aged/older women are "allowed" to be larger, but the young, "desirable" women are all slender and mostly conventionally "pretty;" not a curve in the bunch.


----------



## NancyGirl74

stefanie said:


> That trend has gotten worse with time. We are re-watching the old Babylon 5 TV show on DVD (it's about 15 years old now, roughly), and there are *all kinds* of people in the background scenes. (Apparently they staffed the crowd scenes with the office and construction staffs, so they really were "ordinary folks." But it almost gives you a little "shock" to see fatter people just sitting or walking around chatting in the space station "shopping mall" / public space scenes.)




Even commercials. When was the last time anyone saw a chubby wife/mother cooking dinner for her kids or smiling indulgently at an inept husband? The only one I can think of is the PineSol chick. Other than her and various "before" pictures in diet commercials there just aren't fat or even chubby women in advertising...and if they are they are rarely shown in a positive light.


----------



## butch

Lots of great discussion going on in this thread, even if some want to dimiss it as a tired discussion about fat men and entertainment.

A quick factoid about Hurley and "Lost": the character was written as a white man in his 50's, a working class kinda guy, but the producers loved Jorge Garcia's work in "Curb Your Enthusiasm" and decided to cast him and re-write the character of Hurley. 

Another POV I've come across in regards to the fat husband/thin wife sitcom shows is that one reason they seemed to be so popular in the past 10 years or so is because some cultural commentators believe that fat is now a very easy visual marker for 'heterosexual male.' In other words, with the rise of the metrosexual and 'queer eye for the straight guy,' it is believed that fat guys, by virtue of being fat, must not care about their apperance in the way it is believed gay guys do, and thus they're 'regular guys' even if it is predicated on a stereotype that fat men are less invested in 'looking good.' 

I think that stereotype is crap (and wish there was a bear here in this thread to back me up that yes indeed there are lots of fat gay men), but since tv often paints with broad strokes, I can see why this awful stereotype works.


----------



## ashmamma84

Maybe I'm the only one, but I cringed seeing the fat black chick on the Pinesol commercial...it harkens back to the "mammy" stereotype for me. The woman who is sassy, but she's just the cleaning lady/used only for domestic purposes. Yikes! 

I don't think that was a step forward at all...more like a couple steps back.


----------



## butch

ashmamma84 said:


> Maybe I'm the only one, but I cringed seeing the fat black chick on the Pinesol commercial...it harkens back to the "mammy" stereotype for me. The woman who is sassy, but she's just the cleaning lady/used only for domestic purposes. Yikes!
> 
> I don't think that was a step forward at all...more like a couple steps back.



There are a few other commercials over the past few years that have struck me in the same way, and I wonder why this image persists? The worst ones, for me, were the Universal Studios Theme Park commercials that fixated on fat black women's large breasts. Do you remember those? They were the ones that had a woman clutching her sons against her on a roller coaster in one ad, and in another she was part of a parade in the theme park. Those commericals have always perplexed me in their insistence on using mammy-like imagery to market a family vacation attraction.


----------



## PolarKat

"what he actually said was that "the damn truth" is that most "people... like skinny ______," and that it was therefore not economically viable for TV producers to put fat ______ on TV."


"I hope then, that there's no further need to answer the part of your post above where you call for an acknowledgment that fat hatred in the "outside world" is real. That's a given."

"We need to go beyond stoic acknowledgment that the world is not a fat-friendly place, however. We need to understand how the discourse of fatphobia is used against us, _even to exploit us_. We need to examine it and figure out a way to work against it." 

"I would like to see acceptance spread throughout our culture. "

"A lot of fat people (not just fat women) clearly do buy into the "thin is in" philosophy, hating themselves for being fat, hating the sight of fat bodies for being fat. A lot of fat people at one point or another aspire to thinness, thinking that "when" they are thin, everything will be better. They live in perpetual shame over being fat." 

"believe their own fat bodies, and fat bodies in general, are hideous. It takes a lot of internal work sometimes to shake off the gaze of shame that we look at our bodies with, to come to see a chubby "apple" body, or a dimply pair of thunder thighs as "sexy" and not defficient"

"There is no question that many fat people are complicit in our own oppression. Everyone else hates fat. We are often no different on that count. We play along in the fat-hating game just like everyone else."

"Outside of this community is a real fat hating world that deems we are not sexy... There's really no denying that those people must feel that way."


"I just said that stating that the outside world does not see things necessarily as we do is not a fat hating statement and doesn't necessarily mean that someone is anti-fat."

"yeah, i think acceptance would naturally be the next step from repulsion and then hopefully one day we'll be regarded as sexy."


"I don't claim to have watched every show that has the fat guy/thin wife meme. In many, the fat man is largely a buffoon. That doesn't mean he isn't lovable or has no appeal. But often he is lovable in the same sense that a clown is." 

"Again, too, Hurley often finds himself in the comic, buffoon-like role. It's also interesting that of all the leading men in LOST, Hurley is the one you never see shirtless ..."

"Yeah, the sexy-nonsexy divide is what's used against us. And it's why we have to define ourselves for ourselves. And it's why I'm offended when I see someone casually make an argument that the real prejudices that exists against fat _______ out there are merely based on ________ considerations."


"The rhetoric of "fat _______ just ain't sexy enough to sell" really does tie in to disrespect for life, liberty and all those good things you mentioned. Because, ultimately, that rhetoric is applied in ways that affect not just our sex lives, but how we carry ourselves, how we value ourselves, the way our doctors treat us, and even the value that others give us and our work, as you know."


"Really, it's up to _us_ to stop buying into the discourse that allows industry to take its profits based on wholesale disrespect for fatties."


"If fat was accepted in society, the blood suckers would be selling it. I guarantee that. I can see that fat men are by in large more accepted than fat women. Together, both are still VERY disrespected as a whole." 

"Historically Fat Acceptance has not seemed willing to include Fat Men in the Fat Acceptance dialog beyond subjects such as the fact that Fat Men are more accepted than Fat Women or the fact that there are more Fat Men in entertainment than Fat Women."

"As a Fat Man I say that there is more to the story.."


----------



## Dibaby35

The commercial thing drives me nutty. I always see large men in commercials and think..hmm..would they ever put a large women in the same place?..hell no. I've mentioned it to other people and they were clueless about it..but then they agreed with me after paying attention to it. They just never noticed how advertisers brainwash us to think whats normal and acceptable.


----------



## stan_der_man

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Hey folks? I don't get it. Why are you trying so hard to change Williams mind? Right or wrong isn't the point here. The point is Williams experience is different than yours. So what? I think everyone needs to just let everyone have their own opinion. But you know whatever.



Bingo...

The one thing I admire about William, if not his choice of sources for his information, is his tenacity in what he believes. I think regardless of what your point of view may be, his tenacity by itself is noteworthy. Personally he hasn't convinced me that BHMs necessarily have a worse lot in life (or are put in some sort of lesser place in fat acceptance) but he has proven, rightly or wrongly that there are numerous others who think like him. Perception is almost as powerful as reality, especially if people react to, or take action based upon their perceptions. Actually, if people take action based on their perception, than perception is more important than reality and that becomes a reality in and of itself. I can also relate to William because many of the things I harp about in my so far failed attempt to find a place for the FAs here in Dimensions have hit a similar wall that William and Carl initially have hit.

Folks on this thread seem to have solved many of the dilemmas facing mankind (and BBW kind, and SSBBW kind, and FA kind and BHM kind, and SSBHM kindI think I covered everyone... oh yes and possibly even midgets... are they still called that? Anyhoo) so I have a question for you...

Why do all the males seem to gravitate to websites like Curvage? Just take a look around at places like that, they are always predominately male... Look around Dimensions, this place is predominately female, NAAFA too. Are most men just a bunch of wankers who only want to look at pictures of hot chicks, find places to pick-up chicks or just find some cave to go whoot whoot in with other guys. Are Dimensions and NAAFA to esoteric for most men to handle? Are these men failing NAAFA and Dimensions, or dare I say maybe NAAFA and Dimensions has little to offer them? Why do the BHMs generally stay in their cave The BHM / FFA Board?

I would venture to guess that there are other BHMs who agree with William and Carl, but are smart enough not to jump in and face the same harangue these two guys have faced (and I may face very soon). I would venture to guess that lack of participation in this thread by other BHMs isnt necessarily a sign of lack of support for these notions being expressed here by some of the BHMs.



Ninja Glutton said:


> I'm not touching this thread with a 40 ft. clown pole



Heres one guy.


I dont doubt that what all of you who have posted, has been done so with good intentions, your posts are very articulate, valid and expressed clearly. But is it possible that you cant see past your own biases and politically correct assumptions? Or at least, be able to acknowledge that there may be a perception of things differing from yours that may have some validity?





Smite said:


> This post is full of misinformation and misdirection of hate, that i'm not even going to respond to it. To even imply that I "hate fat women" is so ridiculous that it's not even worth my time. Instead, here's a pleasent picture that best sums up this thread:





Fascinita said:


> Dude, you're missing the point. D'oh. And you avoidance (hardy har... a picture with a panda and a rainbow!) doesn't make it any less so.
> 
> In spite of your snotty attitude, I kind of admire your chutzpah, and sympathize with your need to have the last word, even if it's just some stupid ramblings--heck, at your age, I was probably even snottier than you.
> 
> Let me do you a favor. Let me take the time to spell it out for you:
> 
> 
> 
> See how that works?



Im not trying to take your statements out of context Fascinita, I edited it in a way that I think shows the precise point of conflict here and the attitudes that are keeping the two camps of thought apart Smite obviously has a different perception of things that you arent understanding (and are trying to clarify for him). Maybe he isnt the only one missing a point. There seems to be lot of talking at each other on this thread.

In my opinion, replacing history with herstory is just supplanting a new bias to counter balance an old bias. Perhaps the truth is somewhere in between? Maybe many of you are sick of hearing Williams same old argument, not so much because of his dogged, broken record manner and lack of hard evidence, maybe you are sick of his argument because you just dont like what hes saying and dont want to even consider that there may be a different (and possibly valid) counter perspective.





wrestlingguy said:


> As a former fat man, I can say that I toughed it out on my own, as places that offered support like Dimensions were not an option for me at that time. I still contend, however, that I never felt as socially snubbed as some of the women I encountered here, and other places on the net years later.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, as a former fat man, and although I have already heard from other BHM's that they disagree, I never found that my acceptance quotient was much different from anyone else's. I still think that women are judged physically first in our world, and then by who they are later, whereas judgement for men is less based on physicality, and more on things that don't involve getting the hormones going.
> 
> 
> .




Also, not trying to take your statement out of context, as Ive said before I respect your opinions and still do, but here is how someone may interpret what you said. I know you werent implying this, but maybe it can be taken this way

You as a former fat man havent apparently had the same self acceptance experiences the BHMs posting counter points have had. You do seem to have good self esteem, certainly now, possibly also when you were heavier. You obviously have lost weight. I know you arent equating the two things, but I can see how this could possibly be interpreted as the equivalent of Jenny Craig giving the BBWs a pep talk. Again, just a possible counter perspective, Im not implying this is what you said.




One thing Id like to say sort of a back atcha Butch. I think you rock, I really do. If it werent for you, and things you and others have said, which have helped me see beyond my own biases, I would probably be rallying more on the BHMs side (the ones represented here in this thread anyway) I dont claim to know what it is like to be a BHM, because obviously Im not one. But I am a male and I have lived the life of a male for better or worse. I have also been a NAAFA member for many years and from what Ive read, I also felt there was no place for men (FAs particularly) in the organization (or at least that they werent very welcome) After having read what you wrote Butch, and spoken to some present NAAFA members and FAs, Im also coming to the conclusion maybe its not necessarily that the males (BHMs or FAs) are unwelcome, but there is something keeping them away from organizations like NAAFA, and to a certain extent Dimensions, thats for certain. The feelings of "rejection" may very well be misplaced, but again they are there and manifesting themselves into a real world reaction.




Sandie_Zitkus said:


> On only a personal note. I spent a good couple of years going to dances in the NJ/NJ/PA area. I even helped run a social club in PA and ran my own group in Colordao. In all those years I met maybe 2 fat men at these functions. No exaggeration.
> 
> Oh and there has been a fat man who was head of NAAFA. Does anyone remember Charles VanDyke?
> 
> So I think as a group we really need to listen to what the fat men here are saying. It's their experience, so only they can speak about their feelings.
> 
> JMO.



Charles Van Dyke came to a few of our get-togethers back in days of the Inland Empire (SoCal) Chapter of NAAFA, we had some very interesting conversations. Unfortunately I dont remember him ever speaking about BHMs and their experiences, at least not with our group. I think you are right Sandie, at least as a first step it would be interesting to hear what the BHMs think about all of this being discussed here, and have it done in an environment where its only them speaking. As biased as many may find their discussion, it is their perception and a first step towards helping others in understanding this perception.




Spanky said:


> William,
> 
> I wanted to ask Ripley a question specifically to her point late last night. I wasn't trying to divert the conversation from your OP. I am not a fat person and while I adore fat women and want to see more of them in the media, I was trying to get her opinion regarding same gender and opposite gender preferences regarding the fat people of that gender.
> 
> I always thought fat men were a little more accepted than fat women in our American society. I was asking ripley what she thought of that. I would be interested in what BHMs think of that.



Not trying to answer for anyone else, but your question reminded of something I saw on television a while back and something that emphasizes the complexity of this issue.

There was a large sized actress, I dont remember if she was British or German, or an American in Germany... She was being interviewed about all sorts of things, one of the questions was about her size, and what her experiences were relating to this. She said that on one instance someone came up to her and called her a fat pig. She responded with a question. If I were Orson Wells would you have called me a fat pig?

I can very much see the womens point view on this also. Maybe the women have had worse experiences than the men. Maybe the experiences are just different.


----------



## Victim

'Why do the BHMs generally stay in their “cave”… The BHM / FFA Board?'

For the same reasons why early man of any type stayed in their cave. They felt safe and accepted with the rest of their tribe. They had to venture out of the cave for sustenance and other needs, but once they did they were subject to all the terrible things in the outside world, like other tribes that would hate them or not accept them. 

I guess if we want to advance beyond the stone age we need to accept that fact that other humans feel the same way we do and we need to understand their point of view to get along with them.


----------



## Smite

I can't beleive people are still spinning my words into some fat hatrid rant.


----------



## stan_der_man

Smite said:


> I can't beleive people are still spinning my words into some fat hatrid rant.



If you are referring to me, I was just using your words to show how two different people can have profoundly different perspectives on something and fail to achieve a middle ground.

Maybe you really are the personification of oversensitivity that people here are making you out to be.... your spelling could certainly use some improvement.


----------



## William

Hi 

I think that the difference in behavior toward Fat Men and Fat Women is partly more acceptance and partly because it is more acceptable to attack a woman, men have been known to shoot people over stuff like that.

I still say that it is unhealthy for a Acceptance Community to limit so much of its intellectual discussion of Fat Males to topics like, Fat Men get more acceptance and that there are more Fat Men in entertainment.

William



Spanky said:


> William,
> 
> I wanted to ask Ripley a question specifically to her point late last night. I wasn't trying to divert the conversation from your OP. I am not a fat person and while I adore fat women and want to see more of them in the media, I was trying to get her opinion regarding same gender and opposite gender preferences regarding the fat people of that gender.
> 
> I always thought fat men were a little more accepted than fat women in our American society. I was asking ripley what she thought of that. I would be interested in what BHMs think of that.
> 
> Some of these discussions are very eye-opening to me. It is was CAN move SA forward. Better understanding comes through dialog and communication. And I know this or any other topic has been discussed probably a dozen times before. A fresh start from time to time can help. Remember, newbies abound, for them, this is the FIRST discussion of this they have EVER read ANYWHERE.
> 
> :bow:


----------



## CAMellie

Dr. P Marshall said:


> I can't believe I'm wading into this thread. And at this point. But I am seeing a lot of discussion of the entertainment industry and marketing and I have a few things I'd like to throw out there.
> 
> The real answer to this question in terms of entertainment OVERALL is that if you want to see more BBW on tv, make sure more FAs end up in focus groups. Im not being flippant. I understand the statistic about womens purchasing power, but here is the dirty little secret of the entertainment industry, the largest two demographics they aim for are still men. Nothing has changed in terms of demographics sought since the 1980s. It hasn't. Combined these groups would comprise men roughly ages 15-50(depending on the show, etc.) I know that sitcoms seem to be about the entire family, but the advertising blocks especially from 9-11pm are for products aimed at men. The only block of television where the advertisers shoot for the female demographic is daytime. Soap operas through Oprah/Ellen, etc. Shows like Sex in the City dont even work on the same premise. What happens there is someone pitches an idea and because Manolo Blahnik will put up part of the budget if the shoes are constantly mentioned, voila, the shoes are constantly mentioned. They use product placement to determine budget and marketability on cable, not commercial advertising. That's why some cable channels even have local commercials blocked for part of the time. Really, the only major network show that uses product placement for financing is "The Office." The rest use their commercial blocks for revenue.
> 
> As for men being more accepted, I think it shouldnt be seen as too much of a victory for fat men. I am an FFA and I find Kevin James attractive, but the reality is, no one who gave Kevin James a show did so because they thought anyone would find him attractive. They did it because he was a stand up comedian who was pulling in enough money (And a personal friend of Ray Romano) and they gave him a deal and he set the show up around it. It appears he was going for a bit of a more lovable "Honeymooners" vibe, but I could be wrong. But once the pilot was shot, it was most likely shown to a focus group, of MEN. Now, that does not mean that women cant do anything about this. Or that FAs cant do anything about this. In fact, in another post, I saw someone mention the character Hurley on lost. The writers of that show read the fan sites and web sites and when they saw an outcry for a love interest for Hurley, they decided to try it. Who knows what would have happened had the actress who played her not been arrested while they were shooting that season. But there are shows like 24 where the writers freely admit to taking into account what they read on the official and sometimes unofficial fan sites. The point is, money does talk and so does viewership. If you like a BBW actress, see every show and movie shes in. And make sure you see the movie in the theater if at all possible. It counts more. Unless it's only chance is as a word of mouth DVD cult classic, then rent it or better yet, buy it. Only then will SHE have the clout to make better decisions about her career choices. I know Queen Latifah is not so favored around here at the moment, but her career is a great example of what can happen when a pure talent and engaging beautiful woman gets her chance. Shes played love interests. She is an African American BBW. This should have been unheard of, right? But the truth is she built enough of a following and proved herself at the box office and in other mediums and now she can do whatever she wants. She has her own production company.
> 
> I agree that the culture of thinness is pushed by advertising and entertainment. But it is also a factor of what sells. This is, more than ever, the era of surveys, focus groups and other market research in entertainment as in everything else. So to change things, women need to speak up and men who love fat women need to speak up. The problem is, it will take A LOT of people speaking up to overcome the status quo. As I said at the beginning of this post, the realities of purchasing decisions is not actually looked at by the entertainment industry. They still believe that young men spend more or at least spend more on larger ticket items and unnecessary purchases. It may not be accurate, it may be sexist, but their research tells them that a man is more likely to buy beer, or a big screen TV or a video game. And those are bigger ticket items and those companies are more likely to pay the extra money that is charged during primetime. If you look at sports advertising, you can get an even better idea. There are plenty of female sports fans, but I just watched the NBA finals and really every beer commercial implied that only men watch sports or drink beer. We know this is not true, but something in the market research has convinced them men BUY more beer. Really, maybe more men take online surveys, but they have come to this conclusion through more than just their own prejudices.
> 
> And to answer Spankys question, in college we once examined a case study in an entertainment business class about beer commercials. It showed that men actually PREFERRED men who looked like them rather than pretty boys. This is not to say that all BBW dont like themselves or anything like that, but the focus groups must have women who prefer the women you see on TV and the same for the men. Maybe it is just fat phobia from all types. Or maybe it is that activists of any sort, since they tend to see through the bullshit remove themselves too hastily from the world of mass marketing. In other words, maybe fighting within the system would get more done sometimes. Whether it's going to work in the industry or signing up for one of those stupid Greenfield online type survey groups. Or send emails or go and participate on the web sites of certain shows and networks. Because the execs are watching, the writers are watching and the next group who will be pitching ideas tomorrow are watching.
> 
> I think it can be changed, but not over night. And the way to change it is complex. It will require finding BBW actresses, models and such and giving them vehicles for their initial emergence in the business. Thats really the only way to have anyone whose career you can back in the first place. It is unbelievably difficult to get something green lit in TV or film. They are going to go with the greatest number of sure things most of the time. Lost is an exception because it was based on its creators marketability, not its cast. But in terms of sitcoms and films, youre looking at a small number of people of any race/gender/body type that must be attached for something to even be considered. And then its run through marketing. And that leads to focus groups. And then, if it's a big studio production, it is often run through 1-3 series of test screenings. And sometimes even more focus groups. And yes, there is terror of anything different from what they have been using for the past 50 years. But if enough people DO speak up, they will not override that. I guarantee it. They would rather sell you YOUR(this is the general you and your) agenda than not sell you anything at all.
> 
> The great thing about the internet and digital age is that more people have access to lower cost means of production. Some peoples careers came off of youtube (Andy Samberg, for example). Maybe, and I am being deadly serious, the thing to do is create size accepting content of your own. If you can get enough people to view it, and talk about it on the internet, you may just get a meeting at a TV studio. Or make a digital film. If you can market yourself or your project cleverly enough, or you can get enough buzz on your own, they will listen. The issue of ending fat phobia, though, is tougher. That requires making fat acceptance mainstream. It means making that the status quo, and so far, no one has figured out how to do that on a large scale. Yet. But I still think in this age of marketing research being king, you can harass anyone by proving that enough of their customers want a change, be it Lane Bryant or CBS. You'd just have to figure out how to get enough people who believe in size acceptance to speak up or to at least be the people the companies pull the data from.
> 
> So, its not as simple as a conspiracy, nor is it as simple as just money talks. It can be overcome in my opinion, but it will take a large movement. On many fronts. Greetings from Los Angeles.
> 
> Oh, and CBS? Their entertainment president is a woman. So, it's not as simple as getting women in positions of power. Although still underrepresented, there are many very powerful women already in place and still nothing has changed. And that is because really it is a BUSINESS first and foremost and entertainment/art form second.



Dammit, I have no rep to give. I have the best sidekick EVER! *keeps an eye on her to make sure she doesn't attempt an overthrow*


----------



## William

Hi Stan

What I hate about this thread is all the lies others have started. I never have said that Fat Women have if easier than Fat Men. I have always said the opposite.

I have said that the fixation that Fat Acceptance has on the extra acceptance that Fat Men get is over board to the point stereotyping / minimizing the experiences of Fat Men. There are still far too many articles where that is all the Authors bothers to cover about Fat Men.

Fat Acceptance real stance on Fat Men is what is written in Fat Acceptance and the majority of Fat Acceptance sources go no further than the fact that Fat Men are more accepted and are seen on TV more than Fat Women.

Paul on BFB has finally started stating his feelinsg on BHMs in Fat Acceptnace. When I was there he silently let me fight off a army of attacks that wrecked the flow there for a while.


William








fa_man_stan said:


> Bingo...
> 
> The one thing I admire about William, if not his choice of sources for his information, is his tenacity in what he believes. I think regardless of what your point of view may be, his tenacity by itself is noteworthy. Personally he hasn't convinced me that BHMs necessarily have a worse lot in life (or are put in some sort of lesser place in fat acceptance) but he has proven, rightly or wrongly that there are numerous others who think like him. Perception is almost as powerful as reality, especially if people react to, or take action based upon their perceptions. Actually, if people take action based on their perception, than perception is more important than reality and that becomes a reality in and of itself. I can also relate to William because many of the things I harp about in my so far failed attempt to find a place for the FAs here in Dimensions have hit a similar wall that William and Carl initially have hit.
> 
> Folks on this thread seem to have solved many of the dilemmas facing mankind (and BBW kind, and SSBBW kind, and FA kind and BHM kind, and SSBHM kindI think I covered everyone... oh yes and possibly even midgets... are they still called that? Anyhoo) so I have a question for you...
> 
> Why do all the males seem to gravitate to websites like Curvage? Just take a look around at places like that, they are always predominately male... Look around Dimensions, this place is predominately female, NAAFA too. Are most men just a bunch of wankers who only want to look at pictures of hot chicks, find places to pick-up chicks or just find some cave to go whoot whoot in with other guys. Are Dimensions and NAAFA to esoteric for most men to handle? Are these men failing NAAFA and Dimensions, or dare I say maybe NAAFA and Dimensions has little to offer them? Why do the BHMs generally stay in their cave The BHM / FFA Board?
> 
> I would venture to guess that there are other BHMs who agree with William and Carl, but are smart enough not to jump in and face the same harangue these two guys have faced (and I may face very soon). I would venture to guess that lack of participation in this thread by other BHMs isnt necessarily a sign of lack of support for these notions being expressed here by some of the BHMs.
> 
> 
> 
> Heres one guy.
> 
> 
> I dont doubt that what all of you who have posted, has been done so with good intentions, your posts are very articulate, valid and expressed clearly. But is it possible that you cant see past your own biases and politically correct assumptions? Or at least, be able to acknowledge that there may be a perception of things differing from yours that may have some validity?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Im not trying to take your statements out of context Fascinita, I edited it in a way that I think shows the precise point of conflict here and the attitudes that are keeping the two camps of thought apart Smite obviously has a different perception of things that you arent understanding (and are trying to clarify for him). Maybe he isnt the only one missing a point. There seems to be lot of talking at each other on this thread.
> 
> In my opinion, replacing history with herstory is just supplanting a new bias to counter balance an old bias. Perhaps the truth is somewhere in between? Maybe many of you are sick of hearing Williams same old argument, not so much because of his dogged, broken record manner and lack of hard evidence, maybe you are sick of his argument because you just dont like what hes saying and dont want to even consider that there may be a different (and possibly valid) counter perspective.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, not trying to take your statement out of context, as Ive said before I respect your opinions and still do, but here is how someone may interpret what you said. I know you werent implying this, but maybe it can be taken this way
> 
> You as a former fat man havent apparently had the same self acceptance experiences the BHMs posting counter points have had. You do seem to have good self esteem, certainly now, possibly also when you were heavier. You obviously have lost weight. I know you arent equating the two things, but I can see how this could possibly be interpreted as the equivalent of Jenny Craig giving the BBWs a pep talk. Again, just a possible counter perspective, Im not implying this is what you said.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One thing Id like to say sort of a back atcha Butch. I think you rock, I really do. If it werent for you, and things you and others have said, which have helped me see beyond my own biases, I would probably be rallying more on the BHMs side (the ones represented here in this thread anyway) I dont claim to know what it is like to be a BHM, because obviously Im not one. But I am a male and I have lived the life of a male for better or worse. I have also been a NAAFA member for many years and from what Ive read, I also felt there was no place for men (FAs particularly) in the organization (or at least that they werent very welcome) After having read what you wrote Butch, and spoken to some present NAAFA members and FAs, Im also coming to the conclusion maybe its not necessarily that the males (BHMs or FAs) are unwelcome, but there is something keeping them away from organizations like NAAFA, and to a certain extent Dimensions, thats for certain. The feelings of "rejection" may very well be misplaced, but again they are there and manifesting themselves into a real world reaction.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles Van Dyke came to a few of our get-togethers back in days of the Inland Empire (SoCal) Chapter of NAAFA, we had some very interesting conversations. Unfortunately I dont remember him ever speaking about BHMs and their experiences, at least not with our group. I think you are right Sandie, at least as a first step it would be interesting to hear what the BHMs think about all of this being discussed here, and have it done in an environment where its only them speaking. As biased as many may find their discussion, it is their perception and a first step towards helping others in understanding this perception.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not trying to answer for anyone else, but your question reminded of something I saw on television a while back and something that emphasizes the complexity of this issue.
> 
> There was a large sized actress, I dont remember if she was British or German, or an American in Germany... She was being interviewed about all sorts of things, one of the questions was about her size, and what her experiences were relating to this. She said that on one instance someone came up to her and called her a fat pig. She responded with a question. If I were Orson Wells would you have called me a fat pig?
> 
> I can very much see the womens point view on this also. Maybe the women have had worse experiences than the men. Maybe the experiences are just different.


----------



## Fascinita

Dr. P Marshall said:


> The problem is, it will take A LOT of people speaking up to overcome the status quo.



Dr. P. Thanks for your well-thought-out, informative post. I enjoyed reading it and I learned a lot.

I think you and I have an understanding of the "fat women aren't sexy and don't sell" issue that is basically similar. We even agree that in order for the status quo to change, people will have to speak up and refuse to continue to be disrespected.

One difference between our POVs is that you see this situation as a problem, where I see it as a _challenge_.

I think that real change happens when we stop accepting the "reality" that is foisted upon us and start behaving according to our own definition of reality. If we simply accept that these problems are so large as to be near insurmountable, we will remain immobilized.

This is why I will continue to call for everyone to do their part, beginning with being very vocal about REFUSING to accept the non-truths about fat bodies that are constantly thrown at us. We need to speak our truth, to believe our truth, to spread our truth, and eventually to live our truth.


----------



## Tooz

God, I am so sick of this.

Can we stop trying to convince William?

Moreover, William, can YOU stop trying to convince us?

JESUS. This shit is ridiculous.


----------



## Fascinita

Spanky said:


> What I mean is who is driving this boat?? I really don't think it is a couple of stogie sucking white males on 5th Avenue.



Spank,

This question wasn't at me, but I'll stick in my big-butted opinion anyway.

In my... ahem... numerous posts above on this topic, I've mentioned that "we" and "our culture" and "us" are responsible for the state of things. And I really believe that it is "us" -- ourselves included, here at Dimensions. 

Now it's true that we at Dims certainly are doing our part to START to change things. But it's also true that we LIVE in our culture, we cannot exist outside of it. And everytime that even one of us looks in the mirror and "hates" what we see, or everytime one of us is too ashamed to be seen with a fat partner, or everytime we buy Lean Cuisine, etc., etc., etc.... whether we like it or not, we are participating in the culture of fat phobia and adding fuel to its fire.

This isn't to say that we are not already more enlightened here at Dims, by several orders of magnitude, than the average mainstreamer. We really should be proud for being pioneers. 

All it means is that, for all our work so far, the culture of fat hate is so _pervasive_ that it can't help but touch us and _still_ have us in its grip to some extent.

So the bad news is that it is "us"--our culture, all of us together, NOT two old guys on Madison Avenue--who are responsible for the state of things. And we as fat people and their admirers have been known to cooperate with the status quo--everytime we hated ourselves, everytime we hid the fact that we liked fat guys/girls... We cannot exist outside of the culture entirely, even when we are marginalized, and so to some extent, we have continued to participate in it--some lots more than others, of course!

But that turns out ALSO to be the GOOD NEWS. Because if it is we who have made things the way they are, it is also we who can *change the way things will be.*

Isn't that great news, in fact?


----------



## William

I am still correcting lies told about me.

William




Tooz said:


> God, I am so sick of this.
> 
> Can we stop trying to convince William?
> 
> Moreover, William, can YOU stop trying to convince us?
> 
> JESUS. This shit is ridiculous.


----------



## Tooz

William said:


> I am still correcting lies told about me.
> 
> William



Dude.

There's no point. Seriously. You need to know when to cut your losses, cash in and gtfo.


----------



## Fascinita

ashmamma84 said:


> Maybe I'm the only one, but I cringed seeing the fat black chick on the Pinesol commercial...it harkens back to the "mammy" stereotype for me. The woman who is sassy, but she's just the cleaning lady/used only for domestic purposes. Yikes!
> 
> I don't think that was a step forward at all...more like a couple steps back.



You're not the only one. My first reaction was to see it that way, too. The fat "mammy" stereotype may be why it is easier to slip a fat woman in there--she may be seen as less threatening because she's associated so exclusively with the non-sexual domestic worker.

Although, let's face it, every commercial for a cleaning product is basically misogynist. Don't you know cleaning is women's work? 

PS - How about the commercials for Reynolds Wrap, with the two lab ladies in white coats? One was a thin white woman, the other a fat black gal, if I remember correctly.


----------



## Tooz

Fascinita said:


> You're not the only one. My first reaction was to see it that way, too. The fat "mammy" stereotype may be why it is easier to slip a fat woman in there--she may be seen as less threatening because she's associated so exclusively with the non-sexual domestic worker.
> 
> Although, let's face it, every commercial for a cleaning product is basically misogynist. Don't you know cleaning is women's work?
> 
> PS - How about the commercials for Reynolds Wrap, with the two lab ladies in white coats? One was a thin white woman, the other a fat black gal, if I remember correctly.



It's a shame, that woman is _fine_.


----------



## Fascinita

PolarKat said:


> "If fat was accepted in society, the blood suckers would be selling it. I guarantee that.



Society is you. Do you think someone is going to come along and fix society for you? You and I have to "fix" it, if there is anything to be fixed.

I mean, I think it's obvious that any problem you hope to solve requires action. If you're not willing to act, why should anyone else?


----------



## William

Hi Tooz

Well we have covered both BHM Topics already

William 





Tooz said:


> Dude.
> 
> There's no point. Seriously. You need to know when to cut your losses, cash in and gtfo.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Tooz said:


> It's a shame, that woman is _fine_.




I agree...she is a very pretty woman. I love her dimples 

I love seeing those commercials.....I find them very "soothing" and hells yeah, I love how she represents.....she doesn't strike me as a "cleaning woman" (or as a mammy repeat but you know what? I love black woman...there I said it :blush:  and I never took her presence in those pine sol commercials as a put down of any kind) but with her sass and confidence (which I think COULD be why she was cast, btw) she represents BBWs just fine, IMO  

Black women, as a whole, usually do come across as very confident and strong (and for some reason, I find words from them very "comforting" *shrugs* you can read whatever you want into that but that's how I feel and react)....it makes total sense to me if they are the "first" ones used to represent BBWs. I admire them....I'm sure I am not alone 


</respect>


----------



## Dr. P Marshall

CAMellie said:


> Dammit, I have no rep to give. I have the best sidekick EVER! *keeps an eye on her to make sure she doesn't attempt an overthrow*



Fear not, oh Diva of Destruction, I am still your obedient sidekick.


----------



## Dr. P Marshall

Fascinita said:


> One difference between our POVs is that you see this situation as a problem, where I see it as a _challenge_.



Actually, I think you and I agree on that too. It was a long post and it was late when I wrote it. I meant problem more in the sense of something which needs a solution, not something insurmountable. And my reference to a lot of people was actually a nod to something you have mentioned many times, which is that it has to reach beyond just here at Dimension, or even NAAFA, etc. That it has to be more all encompassing and not remain within the confines of the size acceptance movement. So, I apologize if it came off negative in any way, that was not my intention.


----------



## PolarKat

Fascinita said:


> Society is you. Do you think someone is going to come along and fix society for you? You and I have to "fix" it, if there is anything to be fixed.
> 
> I mean, I think it's obvious that any problem you hope to solve requires action. If you're not willing to act, why should anyone else?



Not mine.. the whole post was just putting together everyone elses posts since last night, each checkmate are there to all points in a fluid pattern.. 
No sure who wrote that line, when I look back I can't seem to find it..

Fixing: I do what I can, the small little dumb things.. it's those little things like talking to the doctor about chairs in the waiting room, the dentist about the weight limit for his lifting chair, or store manager about the turnstyle at the store entrance, rather than just bitching about them here that gets them changed.. That way I, or no one else has to deal with it in the future.. 

As for this debate.. when the majority of people are just more interested in what looks like spitting for rep or pleasure.. not my game to play with kiddies, I've got bills to pay.. When they leave I'll still be here..


----------



## Fascinita

Dr. P Marshall said:


> So, I apologize if it came off negative in any way, that was not my intention.



No, not at all. lol Actually I really enjoy your thoughtful and very intelligent posts. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the opportunity for serious, rational, adult conversation. It's great to be able to hash out "differences" and come to an understanding, even when at first it appears we don't agree on everything. That's the great thing--that by _"talking"_ and taking each other seriously, we can actually understand each other. It's a thing of beauty! 

Thanks again for your posts. :happy:


----------



## Fascinita

PolarKat said:


> Fixing: I do what I can, the small little dumb things.. it's those little things like talking to the doctor about chairs in the waiting room, the dentist about the weight limit for his lifting chair, or store manager about the turnstyle at the store entrance, rather than just bitching about them here that gets them changed.. That way I, or no one else has to deal with it in the future..



This is great. I have talked to my doctor about her attitudes about weight and I think she has actually become a teeny bit more flexible in what used to be a pretty rigid position of "being 'overweight' is a death sentence."

We do what we can everyday, right? I think we really will change the world this way, one step at a time.

Thanks for posting.


----------



## ripley

William said:


> Hi
> 
> 
> Already this thread has reverted to the classic Fat Acceptance Fat Man Topic Fat Men in Entertainment
> 
> William




It's finally getting interesting. 





ashmamma84 said:


> Maybe I'm the only one, but I cringed seeing the fat black chick on the Pinesol commercial...it harkens back to the "mammy" stereotype for me. The woman who is sassy, but she's just the cleaning lady/used only for domestic purposes. Yikes!
> 
> I don't think that was a step forward at all...more like a couple steps back.




I never thought of it this way. I guess I just identified with her as a fat woman, and didn't take into account the racial aspect.


----------



## ripley

Tooz said:


> God, I am so sick of this.
> 
> 
> 
> JESUS. This shit is ridiculous.





Yet on page 35 you're still reading.


----------



## olwen

stefanie said:


> I don't claim to have watched every show that has the fat guy/thin wife meme. In many, the fat man is largely a buffoon. That doesn't mean he isn't lovable or has no appeal. But often he is lovable in the same sense that a clown is. I'm thinking back to Jackie Gleason in "The Honeymooners," where Ralph Cramden (sp?) is fat, lower-middle class, kind of crass. His wife is always scheming with her girlfriend to put something over on him. (This made up a lot of the sitcom funny in "The Flintstones.") Then we got The Simpsons and Family Guy, and *perhaps* John Goodman in "Roseanne" (which I didn't watch.)
> 
> The theme of dishonesty - deception - getting caught and shamed - then making up is also pretty common. As I see it, the fat man in these stories is somewhat made "acceptable" by the wife's eventual forgiveness ("he's just a big dumb lug but she loves him anyway.")
> 
> A more complicated fat man on TV is Hurley in LOST. He was "given" a love interest (Libby) by the creators, but two things happened. She was killed off before the relationship could come to fruition. Also, there was something shady and strange about her (too complicated to go into here), but the sense many viewers got from Libby is that she was pursuing Hurley for ulterior motives, and didn't really care for him for himself. Again, too, Hurley often finds himself in the comic, buffoon-like role. It's also interesting that of all the leading men in LOST, Hurley is the one you never see shirtless ...
> 
> I hope this is not tl;dr. It is a whole complicated thing, this fat man/thin woman TV theme, but those are at least a few of my beginning thoughts about it.



I said I was gonna stay away from this thread (Ernest, you win!), but I like where it is now going. I want to respond to these posts before I read the remaining ones, so if I'm repeating something already said forgive me.

Stephanie, the thing to realize here is that the issue of fat man/thin wife is not about buffoonary, it's about VISIBILITY. Yes, the fat man often coons for the audience, tho he may still play the lovable oaf, he is allowed to have a presence. He is seen as a being capable of love (despite the weight) and being loved. He is seen as a father/authority figure, a bread winner, a sometimes model employee or business owner, and even the diabolical mastermind behind the latest caper (to this last point he is seen as displaying intelligence even if story conventions dictate that the villain should loose) - he has something to contribute to society and therefore a right to exist in the eyes of society. 

This is a far cry from the image of the sad pathetic looser of a fat woman who isn't good enough to land a man for the simple fact that she's fat, or strong enough to stand up for herself (ever the doormat), complains endlessly about how much better she would be as a person if she were thin, lives with a cat, always the best friend of the pretty thin girl she idolizes, and because she is so pathetic she is hardly ever cast as a competent authority figure, or the model employee, nor does she get to play the lead role. She's for all intents and purposes INVISIBLE. Every attempt is made to downplay her size - cover it up, denigrate it, hide her behind bigger objects (they even do this to thin pregnant women to hide the pregnancy if it's not part of the story line because otherwise they'd have to address the issue of weight gain). 

And the issue of weight (and the shame of it) for the fat female character is ALWAYS a part of the character's ethos. For fat men weight is hardly ever a topic of discussion or part of the male character's ethos because he is seen as something other than a number on a scale. Not so for female characters. Roseann is the only fat female character that I can think of who was visible and taken seriously and seen as more than this sad pathetic woman. How many other examples like her have there been not just on television, but in the media period. Queen Latifa and Monique. Three visible fat women in the past 20 years compared to 50+ years of visible fat men.

So yes the fat man on tv is a sterotype of a benign lovable oaf who gets into all kinds of crazy shenanigans, but the sterotype of the fat woman is a pathetic self loathing wretch who would do anything to disappear. They're both bad, but clearly fat women have farther to go here before we can even begin to be seen as valuable in the eyes of the media.



ripley said:


> It just seems like to me that a lot of people use SA totally for sex-related advancements, and there is so much more! I know I myself don't do enough, and use it more for social outlets than anything else.
> 
> 
> Dunno, just thinking out loud.



We use sex so often because it is so basic. To a lot of people validation of one's sexuality = acceptance. This doesn't just count for fat people either. Lot's of people have that need for sexual acceptance.


----------



## Tooz

ripley said:


> Yet on page 35 you're still reading.



I wasn't aware one had to read an entire thread to click "reply."


I'm fucking sick of seeing this as the most recent thread.


----------



## Smite

fa_man_stan said:


> If you are referring to me, I was just using your words to show how two different people can have profoundly different perspectives on something and fail to achieve a middle ground.
> 
> Maybe you really are the personification of oversensitivity that people here are making you out to be.... your spelling could certainly use some improvement.



Nah bro, not you, the others from before still arguing about it. 

And I deserve the right to be oversensitive when people are using semantics as a way to backup their already weak counter-arguments, making things out of shit I never said or alluded to.


----------



## mossystate

Tooz said:


> I wasn't aware one had to read an entire thread to click "reply."
> 
> 
> I'm fucking sick of seeing this as the most recent thread.



But, what gets solved by being angry.

lol

Hey, I am all for whatever people need to say.....eh....it's all part of the fabic of this sometimes wacky quilt.


----------



## Tooz

mossystate said:


> But, what gets solved by being angry.
> 
> lol
> 
> Hey, I am all for whatever people need to say.....eh....it's all part of the fabic of this sometimes wacky quilt.



Uh...who's angry?


----------



## RedVelvet

Tooz said:


> Uh...who's angry?




You sounded pretty dang angry, last few posts, actually.

"fucking thread", and all that..


I think the thread is interesting, its twists and turns...and thats ok.


----------



## mossystate

Tooz said:


> Uh...who's angry?



God, I am so sick of this.

Can we stop trying to convince William?

Moreover, William, can YOU stop trying to convince us?

JESUS. This shit is ridiculous

--

I am now reading only the posts that have nothing to do with the dog with the meaty bone.


----------



## The Fez

How could you?







he's _adorable_


----------



## Tooz

RedVelvet said:


> You sounded pretty dang angry, last few posts, actually.
> 
> "fucking thread", and all that..
> 
> 
> I think the thread is interesting, its twists and turns...and thats ok.





mossystate said:


> God, I am so sick of this.
> 
> Can we stop trying to convince William?
> 
> Moreover, William, can YOU stop trying to convince us?
> 
> JESUS. This shit is ridiculous
> 
> --
> 
> I am now reading only the posts that have nothing to do with the dog with the meaty bone.



Lol, well, you don't know me and thus don't know my mannerisms. Swearing != anger with me. I DO swear when I am angry, however, I also swear when I'm not. Sorry y'all mixed that one up.  I will admit I am annoyed by the thread, but it takes a lot more for me to be angry at something.


----------



## mossystate

Tooz said:


> Lol, well, you don't know me and thus don't know my mannerisms. Swearing != anger with me. I DO swear when I am angry, however, I also swear when I'm not. Sorry y'all mixed that one up.  I will admit I am annoyed by the thread, but it takes a lot more for me to be angry at something.





hehe..that's cool...I know what it is for some to not ' get ' my....tone.....


----------



## William

Hi Olwen

Despite all that you have written below. I still can not stand the image of most Fat Male Characters and also Fat Female Characters. You sound like you are saying that Fat Female Characters negate/cancel out the negativity of Fat Male Characters???

What I mean is that there is no reason why discussion of Fat Men has to always be replied to and topped by statements about Fat Females. Where is the Fat Acceptance and the Support in that???

I may talk about the problems of Fat Acceptance, but I have never need to quantify the experiences of other Fat People of any gender.

I am not directing this at you personally, this is just one of those Fat Acceptance traditions.

William




olwen said:


> I said I was gonna stay away from this thread (Ernest, you win!), but I like where it is now going. I want to respond to these posts before I read the remaining ones, so if I'm repeating something already said forgive me.
> 
> Stephanie, the thing to realize here is that the issue of fat man/thin wife is not about buffoonary, it's about VISIBILITY. Yes, the fat man often coons for the audience, tho he may still play the lovable oaf, he is allowed to have a presence. He is seen as a being capable of love (despite the weight) and being loved. He is seen as a father/authority figure, a bread winner, a sometimes model employee or business owner, and even the diabolical mastermind behind the latest caper (to this last point he is seen as displaying intelligence even if story conventions dictate that the villain should loose) - he has something to contribute to society and therefore a right to exist in the eyes of society.
> 
> This is a far cry from the image of the sad pathetic looser of a fat woman who isn't good enough to land a man for the simple fact that she's fat, or strong enough to stand up for herself (ever the doormat), complains endlessly about how much better she would be as a person if she were thin, lives with a cat, always the best friend of the pretty thin girl she idolizes, and because she is so pathetic she is hardly ever cast as a competent authority figure, or the model employee, nor does she get to play the lead role. She's for all intents and purposes INVISIBLE. Every attempt is made to downplay her size - cover it up, denigrate it, hide her behind bigger objects (they even do this to thin pregnant women to hide the pregnancy if it's not part of the story line because otherwise they'd have to address the issue of weight gain).
> 
> And the issue of weight (and the shame of it) for the fat female character is ALWAYS a part of the character's ethos. For fat men weight is hardly ever a topic of discussion or part of the male character's ethos because he is seen as something other than a number on a scale. Not so for female characters. Roseann is the only fat female character that I can think of who was visible and taken seriously and seen as more than this sad pathetic woman. How many other examples like her have there been not just on television, but in the media period. Queen Latifa and Monique. Three visible fat women in the past 20 years compared to 50+ years of visible fat men.
> 
> So yes the fat man on tv is a sterotype of a benign lovable oaf who gets into all kinds of crazy shenanigans, but the sterotype of the fat woman is a pathetic self loathing wretch who would do anything to disappear. They're both bad, but clearly fat women have farther to go here before we can even begin to be seen as valuable in the eyes of the media.
> 
> 
> 
> We use sex so often because it is so basic. To a lot of people validation of one's sexuality = acceptance. This doesn't just count for fat people either. Lot's of people have that need for sexual acceptance.


----------



## Carl1h

olwen said:


> Yes, the fat man often coons for the audience, tho he may still play the lovable oaf, he is allowed to have a presence. He is seen as a being capable of love (despite the weight) and being loved. He is seen as a father/authority figure, a bread winner, a sometimes model employee or business owner, and even the diabolical mastermind behind the latest caper (to this last point he is seen as displaying intelligence even if story conventions dictate that the villain should loose) - he has something to contribute to society and therefore a right to exist in the eyes of society.
> 
> This is a far cry from the image of the sad pathetic looser of a fat woman who isn't good enough to land a man for the simple fact that she's fat, or strong enough to stand up for herself (ever the doormat), complains endlessly about how much better she would be as a person if she were thin, lives with a cat, always the best friend of the pretty thin girl she idolizes, and because she is so pathetic she is hardly ever cast as a competent authority figure, or the model employee, nor does she get to play the lead role. She's for all intents and purposes INVISIBLE. Every attempt is made to downplay her size - cover it up, denigrate it, hide her behind bigger objects (they even do this to thin pregnant women to hide the pregnancy if it's not part of the story line because otherwise they'd have to address the issue of weight gain).



Why the comparison of FAT men's roles to FAT women's roles? Can't you just take off the adjective FAT and still have the same argument, that men's roles are largely better and more plentiful than women's roles, in pretty much every demographic? If your point is about sexism, why address it as if it only happens between fat men and fat women?

Otherwise, if we are talking about roles that fat people get, looking only at roles that fat men have to compare to the roles that fat women have seems short sighted. Are fat men and fat women competing for the same roles? In _Frankie and Johnny in the Clair de Lune_ Kathy Bates was the female lead in the play, whereas in the movie adaptation, that part went to Michelle Pfeiffer. It seems to me that actresses are competing largely with other actresses for roles, not with fat men.

I'm not saying that there shouldn't be more fat women in better roles, I absolutely think there should be. In fact I would like to see a wider variety of women in better roles all around. So, why compare them to fat men's roles? Is that all we want? I don't think so, I want to see them in the Michelle Pfieffer roles, the Kate Winslet roles, the Bruce Willis and Johnny Depp roles, not just the Kevin James or Jorge Garcia roles.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

Ditto. 



Tooz said:


> God, I am so sick of this.
> 
> Can we stop trying to convince William?
> 
> Moreover, William, can YOU stop trying to convince us?
> 
> JESUS. This shit is ridiculous.


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

It's like a car accident.... we can't help ourselves!  



ripley said:


> Yet on page 35 you're still reading.


----------



## Shosh

Stan you still keeping count? Has this thread overtaken mine yet?


----------



## William

Hi Carl

Like I said it seems that Fat Male experiences always must be counterpointed by Fat Female Experiences!

What laid the ground works for this is explained nicely in this segment of a white paper


Conclusion

We have argued in this article that men have also been exposed to the growing
malevolence towards fat and fatness that emerged in the late 19th century. How
men have experienced, articulated and responded to these aesthetic pressures has
received little attention in the popular and scholarly literature to date. This is due,
in part, to a focus on patriarchy as the source of the fear of fatness as well as a
notable lack of attention to the cultural history of fat. The assumption that men
were immune to body image issues historically and are only now coming to be
affected by fat oppression underwrites much of this literature, in which men and
the fat man in particular are sometimes seen but rarely heard. This is partly due
to the productive nature of the feminist discourse which came to see fat as a peculiarly
women’s issue.

---Kirsten Bell and Darlene McNaughton
Feminism and the Invisible Fat Man
Body Society 2007; 13; 107

William




Carl1h said:


> Why the comparison of FAT men's roles to FAT women's roles? Can't you just take off the adjective FAT and still have the same argument, that men's roles are largely better and more plentiful than women's roles, in pretty much every demographic? If your point is about sexism, why address it as if it only happens between fat men and fat women?
> 
> Otherwise, if we are talking about roles that fat people get, looking only at roles that fat men have to compare to the roles that fat women have seems short sighted. Are fat men and fat women competing for the same roles? In _Frankie and Johnny in the Clair de Lune_ Kathy Bates was the female lead in the play, whereas in the movie adaptation, that part went to Michelle Pfeiffer. It seems to me that actresses are competing largely with other actresses for roles, not with fat men.
> 
> I'm not saying that there shouldn't be more fat women in better roles, I absolutely think there should be. In fact I would like to see a wider variety of women in better roles all around. So, why compare them to fat men's roles? Is that all we want? I don't think so, I want to see them in the Michelle Pfieffer roles, the Kate Winslet roles, the Bruce Willis and Johnny Depp roles, not just the Kevin James or Jorge Garcia roles.


----------



## Tooz

mossystate said:


> hehe..that's cool...I know what it is for some to not ' get ' my....tone.....



Haha, I know. Some might argue you are the queen of this.


I have "struggled" with this issue for many a year, myself.


----------



## PolarKat

Fascinita said:


> This is great. I have talked to my doctor about her attitudes about weight and I think she has actually become a teeny bit more flexible in what used to be a pretty rigid position of "being 'overweight' is a death sentence."
> 
> We do what we can everyday, right? I think we really will change the world this way, one step at a time.
> 
> Thanks for posting.



Most of us get caught up in just complaining, and to be fair average people just don't know any better, every time I've mentioned something the people were very appologetic, and something actually got done.





olwen said:


> Three visible fat women in the past 20 years compared to 50+ years of visible fat men.
> .


You just don't watch enough of the idiot box.. the numbers of positive fat men/women about balance out over the span of TV and film. If you're a flim/TV "fan" you'd be more than aware. The fat man has gone from commentator/evil guy/mobster, to idiot husband, or just plain idiot, and only lately are being seen both positive and sexual.. 
Prior to twiggy, a number of fat (like seth rogan) women were the leading roles and romantic interests, fat men were always gelded, it wasn't until the influx of fat male comedians that broke the mold, and in most cases they spent years playing the idiot, until they finaly were given their manhood back in some meager form..

and just off the top of my head some that you should recognize.. 

Nel Carter, Isable Sanford, Melissa McCarthy, Kathy Kinney, Kirstie Alley, Sara Ramirez, Ricki lake... and like I mentioned before if we use jack black, seth rogan, and kevin smith as a line for "fat".. Marilyn and quite a few ladies of the 40's & 50's could easily be added to the list..

[Edit] and we don't even want to talk about pr0n...


----------



## William

Here is a great example of Male Fat Bashing and historic.

Babe Ruth

Everyone knows that he was one of the greatest batters in Baseball, but he was also a good pitcher!!

So here is a Baseball Player who was the best hitter of his time and one of the best Pitchers of his time and they still laughed at him, even when running the bases on a home-run!!

William


----------



## William

Shelly Winters


Rosemary Clooney- who rubbed shoulders with the Rat-Pack and the then in crowd.


Big Mama Thornton "Blues Woman"

William






PolarKat said:


> Most of us get caught up in just complaining, and to be fair average people just don't know any better, every time I've mentioned something the people were very appologetic, and something actually got done.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You just don't watch enough of the idiot box.. the numbers of positive fat men/women about balance out over the span of TV and film. If you're a flim/TV "fan" you'd be more than aware. The fat man has gone from commentator/evil guy/mobster, to idiot husband, or just plain idiot, and only lately are being seen both positive and sexual..
> Prior to twiggy, a number of fat (like seth rogan) women were the leading roles and romantic interests, fat men were always gelded, it wasn't until the influx of fat male comedians that broke the mold, and in most cases they spent years playing the idiot, until they finaly were given their manhood back in some meager form..
> 
> and just off the top of my head some that you should recognize..
> 
> Nel Carter, Isable Sanford, Melissa McCarthy, Kathy Kinney, Kirstie Alley, Sara Ramirez, Ricki lake... and like I mentioned before if we use jack black, seth rogan, and kevin smith as a line for "fat".. Marilyn and quite a few ladies of the 40's & 50's could easily be added to the list..
> 
> [Edit] and we don't even want to talk about pr0n...


----------



## Smite

Freestyle Fez said:


> How could you?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he's _adorable_



Why do you hate fat men?


----------



## Smushygirl

William said:


> Here is a great example of Male Fat Bashing and historic.
> 
> Babe Ruth
> 
> Everyone knows that he was one of the greatest batters in Baseball, but he was also a good pitcher!!
> 
> So here is a Baseball Player who was the best hitter of his time and one of the best Pitchers of his time and they still laughed at him, even when running the bases on a home-run!!
> 
> William



I swore I was only going to just watch this thread, but this made me crazy!!!

William, no one laughs at Babe Ruth. He is considered one of baseball's greats. Ever heard of "The House that Ruth Built"? You know a very famous stadium in NY?!!! Did you know that Hank Aaron received death threats because he came close to and then broke Ruth's record?!! WTF drugs are you doing?

Yes, it has been reported that Ruth was a drunken, uncouth jerk. But apparently that was the truth. But Babe Ruth is an icon. trust me on this, I know.


----------



## William

If you read his story you know that his Fat was a big issue and only his talent won his fame despite of it.





Smushygirl said:


> I swore I was only going to just watch this thread, but this made me crazy!!!
> 
> William, no one laughs at Babe Ruth. He is considered one of baseball's greats. Ever heard of "The House that Ruth Built"? You know a very famous stadium in NY?!!! Did you know that Hank Aaron received death threats because he came close to and then broke Ruth's record?!! WTF drugs are you doing?
> 
> Yes, it has been reported that Ruth was a drunken, uncouth jerk. But apparently that was the truth. But Babe Ruth is an icon. trust me on this, I know.


----------



## Blackjack

Time for another random image!


----------



## mszwebs

William said:


> If you read his story you know that his Fat was a big issue and only his talent won his fame despite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry... but this statement REALLY confused me, and I realize that I have now started to split hairs even further in this thread...and for that I DO apologize. However.
> 
> *Only his talent won his fame despite of it?*
> 
> Isn't that how it should be? Was his fame SUPPOSED to come from the fact that he was a *fat* ball player ...or perhaps, the fact that he was a really great ball player who happened to be fat?
> 
> Sorry for derailing the thread ever more...
> 
> 
> (DAMN YOU INABILITY TO QUOTE CORRECTLY!!!)
Click to expand...


----------



## William

It is better said this way he encountered Fat Bias that other players did not have to deal with and if he was not so great he would be known as Fat Babe.

William







mszwebs said:


> William said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you read his story you know that his Fat was a big issue and only his talent won his fame despite of it.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry... but this statement REALLY confused me, and I realize that I have now started to split hairs even further in this thread...and for that I DO apologize. However.
> 
> *Only his talent won his fame despite of it?*
> 
> Isn't that how it should be? Was his fame SUPPOSED to come from the fact that he was a *fat* ball player ...or perhaps, the fact that he was a really great ball player who happened to be fat?
> 
> Sorry for derailing the thread ever more...
> 
> 
> (DAMN YOU INABILITY TO QUOTE CORRECTLY!!!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


----------



## butch

For no other reason than because I feel like it, here is a picture of William Howard 'fattie' Taft, sexiest prez evah: 

View attachment William_Howard_Taft_telephones_1908.jpg


----------



## CAMellie

butch said:


> For no other reason than because I feel like it, here is a picture of William Howard 'fattie' Taft, sexiest prez evah:




I'm related to him by marriage, ya know. *beams proudly and rubs the belly*


----------



## butch

CAMellie said:


> I'm related to him by marriage, ya know. *beams proudly and rubs the belly*



How cool is that? He ended up being a supreme court justice, right? and his relatives all end up in Ohio politics, I think. This is the extent of what I know about him, other than the fact that he was a nicely fat man.


----------



## mossystate

President Taft did NOT play baseball!!!



* whispers in my ear *


oh


oops


carry on


----------



## CAMellie

mossystate said:


> President Taft did NOT play baseball!!!
> 
> 
> 
> * whispers in my ear *
> 
> 
> oh
> 
> 
> oops
> 
> 
> carry on



According to legend (though probably apocryphal), the traditional 7th inning stretch at baseball games is owed to Taft. The president was watching a game and, in the 7th inning, got up to stretch. The crowd, out of respect for the president, also rose to their feet. Since then, people have stretched during the 7th inning.

Kinda sorta close to baseball...no? nevermind then


----------



## olwen

First I wanna say Dr. P your long post was hot. Like it really did it for me.  Seriously. Cool. I'm out of rep - again. 

Your points about marketing research hit the nail on the head. Advertisers spend a big chunk of their time doing market research. By and large men are the target audience. I subscribe to Advertising Age online. Everyday there's some insider tidbit or article questioning their tactics and how to market to women and minorities. Half the time I fluctuate between disbelief and outright horror at the way marketers think and the tone of the discourse within the industry. So much of this talk is how to make advertising less "white bread" than in the past and how to crack that oh so convoluted market that is women and obtain all their dollars....change does have to come from the consumers since advertisers do listen, especially when they complain....




Spanky said:


> Rip, do you think that fat women have a tougher road with respect to size acceptance than men because the opposite sex is more or less accepting. IMO, women in general are more accepting to a wider range of male bodies than are men with women's bodies.
> 
> OR are we dealing with MEN accepting men's bodies more and women accepting women's bodies less with the cultural/societal resultant we are hashing here on this thread.
> 
> What I mean is who is driving this boat?? I really don't think it is a couple of stogie sucking white males on 5th Avenue. If fat was accepted in society, the blood suckers would be selling it. I guarantee that. I can see that fat men are by in large more accepted than fat women. Together, both are still VERY disrespected as a whole.
> 
> Just wondering what you think.... (or anyone else).



Spanky, I think it's a little bit of both.


----------



## olwen

William said:


> Hi Olwen
> 
> Despite all that you have written below. I still can not stand the image of most Fat Male Characters and also Fat Female Characters. You sound like you are saying that Fat Female Characters negate/cancel out the negativity of Fat Male Characters???
> 
> What I mean is that there is no reason why discussion of Fat Men has to always be replied to and topped by statements about Fat Females. Where is the Fat Acceptance and the Support in that???
> 
> I may talk about the problems of Fat Acceptance, but I have never need to quantify the experiences of other Fat People of any gender.
> 
> I am not directing this at you personally, this is just one of those Fat Acceptance traditions.
> 
> William



The existence of fat female characters does not "cancel out" the existence of fat male characters. I'm not even sure I follow your line of reasoning or how you came to that conclusion.

I pointed out this gender difference to illustrate what I see as the visibility quotients of both genders. 



Carl1h said:


> Why the comparison of FAT men's roles to FAT women's roles? Can't you just take off the adjective FAT and still have the same argument, that men's roles are largely better and more plentiful than women's roles, in pretty much every demographic? If your point is about sexism, why address it as if it only happens between fat men and fat women?
> 
> Otherwise, if we are talking about roles that fat people get, looking only at roles that fat men have to compare to the roles that fat women have seems short sighted. Are fat men and fat women competing for the same roles? In _Frankie and Johnny in the Clair de Lune_ Kathy Bates was the female lead in the play, whereas in the movie adaptation, that part went to Michelle Pfeiffer. It seems to me that actresses are competing largely with other actresses for roles, not with fat men.
> 
> I'm not saying that there shouldn't be more fat women in better roles, I absolutely think there should be. In fact I would like to see a wider variety of women in better roles all around. So, why compare them to fat men's roles? Is that all we want? I don't think so, I want to see them in the Michelle Pfieffer roles, the Kate Winslet roles, the Bruce Willis and Johnny Depp roles, not just the Kevin James or Jorge Garcia roles.




You're absolutely right Carl. Men in general get meatier roles than women in gender. I point this out because it is something I've always noticed. I watched maybe 11 hours of tv a day as a kid. No joke. From the time I got up to the time I got home (minus the half hour it took to do homework)from the time I went to bed. I grew up without a fat female role model that I could relate to and was envious of the fat men and just plain confused by suck stark differences. I remember Nell Carter. I hated that she never really had a love interest. She was basically the fat black mammy. 

I just felt like, well at least the fat men are seen, and not seen as doormats. They're men being manly. Grrr Arr Arr. Where were the fat women who didn't make me cringe or roll my eyes or suck my teeth in disgust. Where were the ones who looked like me who were seen as young and pretty and valuable and desirable. 

Yes, this is my issue I suppose....and I suppose I still don't see that. 

I can see how this particular point could be left alone for now if it doesn't add anything to the discussion and all are ready to move past this. 



PolarKat said:


> ....You just don't watch enough of the idiot box.. the numbers of positive fat men/women about balance out over the span of TV and film. If you're a flim/TV "fan" you'd be more than aware. The fat man has gone from commentator/evil guy/mobster, to idiot husband, or just plain idiot, and only lately are being seen both positive and sexual..
> Prior to twiggy, a number of fat (like seth rogan) women were the leading roles and romantic interests, fat men were always gelded, it wasn't until the influx of fat male comedians that broke the mold, and in most cases they spent years playing the idiot, until they finaly were given their manhood back in some meager form..
> 
> and just off the top of my head some that you should recognize..
> 
> Nel Carter, Isable Sanford, Melissa McCarthy, Kathy Kinney, Kirstie Alley, Sara Ramirez, Ricki lake... and like I mentioned before if we use jack black, seth rogan, and kevin smith as a line for "fat".. Marilyn and quite a few ladies of the 40's & 50's could easily be added to the list..
> 
> [Edit] and we don't even want to talk about pr0n...



You're right PK, I don't watch enough tv it seems. Maybe four or five hours a week is all I have time for. I've got two DVDs, been sitting on my desk for two weeks now. I'll get around to them eventually...



William said:


> Here is a great example of Male Fat Bashing and historic.
> 
> Babe Ruth
> 
> Everyone knows that he was one of the greatest batters in Baseball, but he was also a good pitcher!!
> 
> So here is a Baseball Player who was the best hitter of his time and one of the best Pitchers of his time and they still laughed at him, even when running the bases on a home-run!!
> 
> William



Babe Ruth was remembered for his talent, not his girth. They laughed, but the man could hit and pitch without steroids fat or no. I'm no sports fan, but I know about Babe Ruth and didn't find out he was a fat man until well after I'd ever heard his name. How cool is that? That's the way it should be.


----------



## Dr. P Marshall

olwen said:


> First I wanna say Dr. P your long post was hot. Like it really did it for me.



HA! Thanks for the compliment, but that phrasing really made me laugh. My post says to send it a PM so you can get to know each other better.

I'm sorry, but this thread has brought out the absurd in me at this point.


----------



## William

Hi Olwen

My point was very clear. The discussion of Fat Male Experiences do not always need to be followed by a Fat Female experience that tops the Fat Male Experience. Fat Females share their stories all the time without Fat Male or anyone chiming in with their experiences or comments to offset the first person's statements.

This is part of the low quality of the Fat Male experience in Fat Acceptance.

William




olwen said:


> The existence of fat female characters does not "cancel out" the existence of fat male characters. I'm not even sure I follow your line of reasoning or how you came to that conclusion.


----------



## wrestlingguy

William said:


> It is better said this way he encountered Fat Bias that other players did not have to deal with and if he was not so great he would be known as Fat Babe.
> William
> .



I guess the same thing could be said for that other sports icon, the great Ron Jeremy. No one has ever called him "Fat Ron". 
Philip


----------



## olwen

William said:


> Hi Olwen
> 
> My point was very clear. The discussion of Fat Male Experiences do not always need to be followed by a Fat Female experience that tops the Fat Male Experience.* Fat Females share their stories all the time without Fat Male or anyone chiming in with their experiences or comments *to offset the first person's statements.
> 
> This is part of the low quality of the Fat Male experience in Fat Acceptance.
> 
> William




Therein lies the problem. 

You know what women often do? We get together and we talk and we compare notes so to speak about a lot of things. This is how we relate to each other. If you don't like to talk to other men and compare notes, and if other men are like that, then this really is about communication styles. I don't see this as an ace trumps your king kind of thing. I see this as me telling you about my experiences, and I expect that you or any other man would tell me about your experiences in return. You've done none of that. Instead you insist on seeing the female experience as an attack on the male experience. I have no doubt that there are other men who see things that way too. That is a shame.


ETA: The other thing I see is the possibly underlying guilt/anger coming from some of you BHMs over the fact that by and large because you are men you don't suffer as much or as often as women do. This is just a cold hard fact. There'd have been no need for a women's movement if you didn't. This doesn't negate your suffering or undermine your suffering. It's just a truth. Deal with it. We do.


----------



## wrestlingguy

olwen said:


> ETA: The other thing I see is the possibly underlying guilt/anger coming from some of you BHMs over the fact that by and large because you are men you don't suffer as much or as often as women do. This is just a cold hard fact. There'd have been no need for a women's movement if you didn't. This doesn't negate your suffering or undermine your suffering. It's just a truth. Deal with it. We do.



I think I said something that resembles this about 17 pages ago. I also think that there have been permutations of this thought be countless others here, and it seems to me that the people this is intended for just don't seem to listen. 

Somehow, those folks view it as a "pissing contest" when in fact it's just comapirson of life experience, that's all.

I used to counsel carncer patients, after my bout with testicular cancer & non-Hodgkins lymphoma. Very often I encountered both men & women with the same types of cancer. *Most* women handled themselves very well.
*Most* men wanted me to think that they were the only ones with their type of cancer. 

It was always interesting to get together the support groups, and watch the interaction between them, especially when the males in the room would say things like "you don't know what I go through".

I really don't believe that it's a fat man vs. fat woman issue, just the Venus/Mars difference between men & women in general.


----------



## Santaclear

I think it's basically a Mars/Three Musketeers issue.


----------



## William

Hi Olwen

It is a shame that Fat Male Experiences shared in Fat Acceptance seem to almost always need to be over shadowed by tales of Fat Female Experiences. Identifying with the experiences of others is great but comparing, measuring and quantifying is not.

William



olwen said:


> Therein lies the problem.
> 
> You know what women often do? We get together and we talk and we compare notes so to speak about a lot of things. This is how we relate to each other. If you don't like to talk to other men and compare notes, and if other men are like that, then this really is about communication styles. I don't see this as an ace trumps your king kind of thing. I see this as me telling you about my experiences, and I expect that you or any other man would tell me about your experiences in return. You've done none of that. Instead you insist on seeing the female experience as an attack on the male experience. I have no doubt that there are other men who see things that way too. That is a shame.
> 
> 
> ETA: The other thing I see is the possibly underlying guilt/anger coming from some of you BHMs over the fact that by and large because you are men you don't suffer as much or as often as women do. This is just a cold hard fact. There'd have been no need for a women's movement if you didn't. This doesn't negate your suffering or undermine your suffering. It's just a truth. Deal with it. We do.


----------



## Fascinita

William said:


> Hi Olwen
> 
> It is a shame that Fat Male Experiences shared in Fat Acceptance seem to almost always need to be over shadowed by tales of Fat Female Experiences. *Identifying with the experiences of others is great but comparing, measuring and quantifying is not.
> *
> William



William,

How do you reconcile your statement above with the following quotes from your posts in another thread?

(All emphasis in *bold* is mine.)



William said:


> *There are both women and men* on general assistance that fit into the Peter Pan figure. Of course *there are more Women* on Welfare.
> 
> I work in a Rehab for hardcore addicts and drunks and I am in the Dept. of Social services daily. I am also daily over at our Parent Agency which helps the working poor.
> 
> Welfare works for the people of no other resource and many of them try their best to become self-efficient, but the system is against them. I have no problem saying that I believe that there are plenty of people on Welfare who are there because of no fault of their own.
> 
> I am also honest enough to say that there are some people that scam the system.
> 
> My own male clients are the worse of the lot bouncing from rehab to rehab on the tax payers money. They also get all their dental and other medical needs fixed while at Hotel Rehab. You have no idea how happy I am when we get a client who really wants to become sober.
> 
> William






William said:


> Hi Jane
> 
> Getting back to the original subject, *I think that there are a lot of Petra Pans* out there, but *they do not experience the bias that young males have to deal with* and do not have articles written about them.
> 
> William



If there is an inconsistency between your statements now and your statements past, can you take take that as evidence that no one is entirely consistent and cut the rest of us a break and realize that we are trying to hear you and to dialogue with you, but that you have to be willing to work with us as we are with you?

I would sincerely love to know.


----------



## William

Hi 

If we ever discussion how men and women are allowed to share their experiences about using the Welfare System you could make a analogy. I would have no need to discount any experiences that they shared about the Welfare System.

I am sorry that allowing even a small space in Fat Acceptance for the experiences of Fat Men to stand alone is something that you feel is so great that you need me to cut you a break.

What I am asking for is a compromise or what you call a win/win ending. In all healthy relationships there has to be something positive in it for everyone. Fat Males do not get healthy interactions in Fat Acceptance unless they do not share about their experiences. 

William




Fascinita said:


> William,
> 
> How do you reconcile your statement above with the following quotes from your posts in another thread?
> 
> (All emphasis in *bold* is mine.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there is an inconsistency between your statements now and your statements past, can you take take that as evidence that no one is entirely consistent and cut the rest of us a break and realize that we are trying to hear you and to dialogue with you, but that you have to be willing to work with us as we are with you?
> 
> I would sincerely love to know.


----------



## wrestlingguy

William said:


> It is better said this way he encountered Fat Bias that other players did not have to deal with and if he was not so great he would be known as Fat Babe.
> 
> William





mszwebs said:


> Sorry... but this statement REALLY confused me, and I realize that I have now started to split hairs even further in this thread...and for that I DO apologize. However.
> 
> Only his talent won his fame despite of it?
> 
> Isn't that how it should be? Was his fame SUPPOSED to come from the fact that he was a fat ball player ...or perhaps, the fact that he was a really great ball player who happened to be fat?
> 
> Sorry for derailing the thread ever more...





William said:


> If you read his story you know that his Fat was a big issue and only his talent won his fame despite of it.



So, William, would there be any truth to you if it was said that society would view any fat male who didn't succeed in life in some way as "Fat so and so"?

I agree with mszwebs that we are people first, fat people second. To deny that point immediately places you in a different place than the rest of the world.


----------



## Rowan

William said:


> Hi Olwen
> 
> *It is a shame that Fat Male Experiences shared in Fat Acceptance seem to almost always need to be over shadowed by tales of Fat Female Experiences. *Identifying with the experiences of others is great but comparing, measuring and quantifying is not.
> 
> William



This would be called human nature. Men do it amongst themselves and so do women and so do all people...it's called a pissing match. Everyone always wants to outdo the previous guy. I'm sure you're just as guilty of it in your life at some point as everyone else.

Pissing Match Definition compliments of the Urban Dictionary: 1. pissing contest 83 up, 13 down 

1. A competition in urinating, most likely to see who is able to urinate the farthest or for longest time. Mostly done between males, although I'm not ruling out the female possibility. 

2. An argument where each participant is merely attempting to out-do the other one, not for the sake of the truth coming out, but simply to win. (see pure heavy metal fans of any type of metal, the most uppity in the world.) 

3. Two or more parties simply attempting to out-do one another, not for the sake of truly believing in their cause, but just to win in order to gain some kind of power, honour, or reward of some kind. (see politics, particularly Australian politics; see also university philosophy students if there is such a definition)


----------



## Fascinita

William said:


> Hi
> 
> If we ever discussion how men and women are allowed to share their experiences about using the Welfare System you could make a analogy. I would have no need to discount any experiences that they shared about the Welfare System.
> 
> I am sorry that allowing even a small space in Fat Acceptance for the experiences of Fat Men to stand alone is something that you feel is so great that you need me to cut you a break.
> 
> What I am asking for is a compromise or what you call a win/win ending. In all healthy relationships there has to be something positive in it for everyone. Fat Males do not get healthy interactions in Fat Acceptance unless they do not share about their experiences.
> 
> William



OK... so... you asked us not to compare and quantify, but it's OK when you do it? That seems to be what you're saying. Is that right? Or am I wrong about that, William?

I'm not trying to be disrespectful this morning--I know I've been very flippant earlier in this thread, out of my own shortcomings--so I'm sorry if I used language that seems like I am asking for anything more than for a compromise where both "sides" meet each other halfway. My intentions in asking you to "cut us a break" were above board, so you should disregard my "snappy" language.

But I am genuinely interested in knowing why you seem to be saying that some of us should not compare and quantify experiences, while you've done just that in other situations (particularly when you said that "Petra Pans" don't experience the same level of bias as young men have to deal with). I think there's a contradiction there, but maybe you have a way of explaining it.

Thanks.


----------



## bigsexy920

Is this thing still on ?


----------



## Blackjack

RUN A DISTRACTION PLAY!


----------



## CAMellie

wrestlingguy said:


> I guess the same thing could be said for that other sports icon, the great Ron Jeremy. No one has ever called him "Fat Ron".
> Philip



Porn is a sport? :blink: Did I miss something?


----------



## William

Hi 

In group communication what other group of people focus so much of their energy on comparing, measuring and quantifying the life experiences of a portion of the group?

I have not seen it in community meetings, Non-profit employee members, campus groups and social groups.

Would you have a friend that always picking over what you have said, testing, rejecting what you shared as if they where the absolute authoritarian on the subject?

This type of relationship is not healthy

and

No I did not presume to think that I know what the Welfare Clients that I spoke about have experienced in life, that is what I am highlighting as a problem in Fat Acceptance. Unless you are a mind reader you do not know what the other side has experienced.

But when I am taking my clients paperwork to the Dept. of Social Services (DSS) and I see some Mothers walking and sometimes carrying their children along to their appointments to see their case-workers and then I see other Mother's being driven to DSS by guys in a expensive Sport Sedans or Coupes, I have to guess that there is a little fraud at work.

William




Fascinita said:


> OK... so... you asked us not to compare and quantify, but it's OK when you do it? That seems to be what you're saying. Is that right? Or am I wrong about that, William?
> 
> I'm not trying to be disrespectful this morning--I know I've been very flippant earlier in this thread, out of my own shortcomings--so I'm sorry if I used language that seems like I am asking for anything more than for a compromise where both "sides" meet each other halfway. My intentions in asking you to "cut us a break" were above board, so you should disregard my "snappy" language.
> 
> But I am genuinely interested in knowing why you seem to be saying that some of us should not compare and quantify experiences, while you've done just that in other situations (particularly when you said that "Petra Pans" don't experience the same level of bias as young men have to deal with). I think there's a contradiction there, but maybe you have a way of explaining it.
> 
> Thanks.


----------



## William

Hi 

I do not think that most people come to Fat Acceptance for a pissing match!

I also do not think that Acceptance is having levels of membership in a community. One who's stories are always taken at face value and the other having their stories always suspect.

William 




Rowan said:


> This would be called human nature. Men do it amongst themselves and so do women and so do all people...it's called a pissing match. Everyone always wants to outdo the previous guy. I'm sure you're just as guilty of it in your life at some point as everyone else.
> 
> Pissing Match Definition compliments of the Urban Dictionary: 1. pissing contest 83 up, 13 down
> 
> 1. A competition in urinating, most likely to see who is able to urinate the farthest or for longest time. Mostly done between males, although I'm not ruling out the female possibility.
> 
> 2. An argument where each participant is merely attempting to out-do the other one, not for the sake of the truth coming out, but simply to win. (see pure heavy metal fans of any type of metal, the most uppity in the world.)
> 
> 3. Two or more parties simply attempting to out-do one another, not for the sake of truly believing in their cause, but just to win in order to gain some kind of power, honour, or reward of some kind. (see politics, particularly Australian politics; see also university philosophy students if there is such a definition)


----------



## stan_der_man

Smite said:


> Nah bro, not you, the others from before still arguing about it.
> 
> And I deserve the right to be oversensitive when people are using semantics as a way to backup their already weak counter-arguments, making things out of shit I never said or alluded to.



My apologies Smite for ragging on you like that. It was hot that day, I was doing laundry and had to clean the cat's litter box, I was kinda on the grumpy side... you know how that goes. Oversensitivity is cool, I suppose if a lot of shit is flying in one's direction you gotta defend yourself somehow. BTW... I added that rainbow panda bear to my LOLibrary of images, hope you don't mind... it may come in handy one of these days again. Oh, and I gotta 'fess, that crack I made about your spelling... I'm not worth a shit without spell checker myself, I'm sorta like a chimp banging on a keyboard... Kinda hypocritical of me to say that I suppose. Again, I'm glad things are cool between us.



butch said:


> For no other reason than because I feel like it, here is a picture of William Howard 'fattie' Taft, sexiest prez evah:


How about a picture of Orson Wells...








Santaclear said:


> I think it's basically a Mars/Three Musketeers issue.



I'm a Three Musketeers man myself.... There's nothing better than eating a Hershey's while driving down the highway.



Susannah said:


> Stan you still keeping count? Has this thread overtaken mine yet?



You know what Shosh... it's official...

Susannah's notorious thread has now been beaten by 39 posts! (Susannah's thread was 718 posts, as of this post we are now at 747!)


You're off the hook Shoshie!


----------



## William

Hi Olwen

When every Fat Male contribution to the Fat Acceptance must be rebutted, quantified and measured against a Fat Female experience that is more than just accepting the Fact that Fat Women get more abuse.

It seems that some Fat Women in Fat Acceptance cant abide Fat Men having more than the bare minimum presence in Fat Acceptance as Fat People. As Fat Supporters we are always welcome. I base this on the reactions to Fat Men sharing their experiences and the comments that always follow.

I will say that there are several Fat Acceptance Blogs where this is not so.

William






olwen said:


> Therein lies the problem.
> 
> You know what women often do? We get together and we talk and we compare notes so to speak about a lot of things. This is how we relate to each other. If you don't like to talk to other men and compare notes, and if other men are like that, then this really is about communication styles. I don't see this as an ace trumps your king kind of thing. I see this as me telling you about my experiences, and I expect that you or any other man would tell me about your experiences in return. You've done none of that. Instead you insist on seeing the female experience as an attack on the male experience. I have no doubt that there are other men who see things that way too. That is a shame.
> 
> 
> ETA: The other thing I see is the possibly underlying guilt/anger coming from some of you BHMs over the fact that by and large because you are men you don't suffer as much or as often as women do. This is just a cold hard fact. There'd have been no need for a women's movement if you didn't. This doesn't negate your suffering or undermine your suffering. It's just a truth. Deal with it. We do.


----------



## William

Hi 

I will answer this even though it was about another subject not about experiences in Fat Acceptance or even experiences in the Welfare System. 

There are more Women than Men in welfare because so many Women have to carry the load by themselves because:

1.	Their men are in prison.
2.	Their men are in Rehab
3.	Their men are simply AWOL 
4.	Their men are dead (early death)
5.	Their men work but do not make enough to raise the family off of Welfare.
6.	Their men make plenty of money, but he/they are not listed in the household and is not included in the welfare eligibility calculations.
7.	I am sure there are other reasons.

William






Fascinita said:


> William,
> 
> How do you reconcile your statement above with the following quotes from your posts in another thread?
> 
> (All emphasis in *bold* is mine.)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If there is an inconsistency between your statements now and your statements past, can you take take that as evidence that no one is entirely consistent and cut the rest of us a break and realize that we are trying to hear you and to dialogue with you, but that you have to be willing to work with us as we are with you?
> 
> I would sincerely love to know.


----------



## mossystate

Somebody must love the movie Groundhogs Day.


----------



## TraciJo67

I'm just lost, and feeling so cold and alone <shiver>

Hold me, Mossything <whimper>


----------



## Shosh

fa_man_stan said:


> My apologies Smite for ragging on you like that. It was hot that day, I was doing laundry and had to clean the cat's litter box, I was kinda on the grumpy side... you know how that goes. Oversensitivity is cool, I suppose if a lot of shit is flying in one's direction you gotta defend yourself somehow. BTW... I added that rainbow panda bear to my LOLibrary of images, hope you don't mind... it may come in handy one of these days again. Oh, and I gotta 'fess, that crack I made about your spelling... I'm not worth a shit without spell checker myself, I'm sorta like a chimp banging on a keyboard... Kinda hypocritical of me to say that I suppose. Again, I'm glad things are cool between us.
> 
> 
> How about a picture of Orson Wells...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a Three Musketeers man myself.... There's nothing better than eating a Hershey's while driving down the highway.
> 
> 
> 
> You know what Shosh... it's official...
> 
> Susannah's notorious thread has now been beaten by 39 posts! (Susannah's thread was 718 posts, as of this post we are now at 747!)
> 
> 
> You're off the hook Shoshie!




Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## mossystate

TraciJo67 said:


> I'm just lost, and feeling so cold and alone <shiver>
> 
> hold me under water, queen mossy


----------



## ripley

William said:


> Hi
> 
> *In group communication what other group of people focus so much of their energy on comparing, measuring and quantifying the life experiences of a portion of the group?*
> 
> I have not seen it in community meetings, Non-profit employee members, campus groups and social groups.
> 
> Would you have a friend that always picking over what you have said, testing, rejecting what you shared as if they where the absolute authoritarian on the subject?
> 
> This type of relationship is not healthy
> 
> 
> William



The part I put in bold is hilarious to me. Have you been around here very long, William? 'Cause as a woman, I gotta tell ya, I'm always being asked to quantify and qualify my very body for the opposite sex. Are you a Pear? Are you an Hourglass? How big are your thighs? Bigger than my waist? Bigger than your own waist? What do you weigh? Does your belly have one roll? Two? Three? How much do you weigh? What are your measurements?

Your second paragraph...I have to ask, where have people done this to fat men? Where is all this "always picking over what you have said, testing, rejecting what you shared"? When a fat man says "I was ignored in the bar, I ended up feeling bad," a lot of people, women AND OTHER MEN, often say "I know how you feel, when XYZ happened to me I felt awful." That is not one-upping the fat man, this is commiseration and empathy, and support that the person is not alone.



William said:


> Hi
> 
> I do not think that most people come to Fat Acceptance for a pissing match!
> 
> I also do not think that Acceptance is having levels of membership in a community. One who's stories are always taken at face value and the other having their stories always suspect.
> 
> William



Again, where is this going on? What stories are "suspect"?



William said:


> Hi Olwen
> 
> When *every* Fat Male contribution to the Fat Acceptance must be rebutted, quantified and measured against a Fat Female experience that is more than just accepting the Fact that Fat Women get more abuse.
> 
> It seems that some Fat Women in Fat Acceptance cant abide Fat Men having more than the bare minimum presence in Fat Acceptance as Fat People. As Fat Supporters we are always welcome. I base this on the reactions to Fat Men sharing their experiences and the comments that *always* follow.
> 
> I will say that there are several Fat Acceptance Blogs where this is not so.
> 
> William



Every? Always? Again, where is this happening? Link me to some posts, because I am totally missing this pandemic.


----------



## olwen

Dr. P Marshall said:


> HA! Thanks for the compliment, but that phrasing really made me laugh. My post says to send it a PM so you can get to know each other better.
> 
> I'm sorry, but this thread has brought out the absurd in me at this point.




It's all good


----------



## olwen

William said:


> Hi
> 
> In group communication what other group of people focus so much of their energy on comparing, measuring and quantifying the life experiences of a portion of the group?
> 
> I have not seen it in community meetings, Non-profit employee members, campus groups and social groups.
> 
> Would you have a friend that always picking over what you have said, testing, rejecting what you shared as if they where the absolute authoritarian on the subject?
> 
> This type of relationship is not healthy
> 
> and
> 
> No I did not presume to think that I know what the Welfare Clients that I spoke about have experienced in life, that is what I am highlighting as a problem in Fat Acceptance. Unless you are a mind reader you do not know what the other side has experienced.
> 
> But when I am taking my clients paperwork to the Dept. of Social Services (DSS) and I see some Mothers walking and sometimes carrying their children along to their appointments to see their case-workers and then I see other Mother's being driven to DSS by guys in a expensive Sport Sedans or Coupes, I have to guess that there is a little fraud at work.
> 
> William





William said:


> Hi
> 
> I do not think that most people come to Fat Acceptance for a pissing match!
> 
> I also do not think that Acceptance is having levels of membership in a community. One who's stories are always taken at face value and the other having their stories always suspect.
> 
> William





William said:


> Hi Olwen
> 
> When every Fat Male contribution to the Fat Acceptance must be rebutted, quantified and measured against a Fat Female experience that is more than just accepting the Fact that Fat Women get more abuse.
> 
> It seems that some Fat Women in Fat Acceptance cant abide Fat Men having more than the bare minimum presence in Fat Acceptance as Fat People. As Fat Supporters we are always welcome. I base this on the reactions to Fat Men sharing their experiences and the comments that always follow.
> 
> I will say that there are several Fat Acceptance Blogs where this is not so.
> 
> William



I can't even begin to try to reply to all this - I'm just flabbergasted. So I'm just gonna display it and let it stand on it's own merits and try to let it all sink in. 




ripley said:


> The part I put in bold is hilarious to me. Have you been around here very long, William? 'Cause as a woman, I gotta tell ya, I'm always being asked to quantify and qualify my very body for the opposite sex. Are you a Pear? Are you an Hourglass? How big are your thighs? Bigger than my waist? Bigger than your own waist? What do you weigh? Does your belly have one roll? Two? Three? How much do you weigh? What are your measurements?
> 
> Your second paragraph...I have to ask, where have people done this to fat men? Where is all this "always picking over what you have said, testing, rejecting what you shared"? When a fat man says "I was ignored in the bar, I ended up feeling bad," a lot of people, women AND OTHER MEN, often say "I know how you feel, when XYZ happened to me I felt awful." That is not one-upping the fat man, this is commiseration and empathy, and support that the person is not alone.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, where is this going on? What stories are "suspect"?
> 
> 
> 
> Every? Always? Again, where is this happening? Link me to some posts, because *I am totally missing this pandemic.*




As am I.


----------



## William

Hi Ripley 

I know that I have been on this site as far back as when NAAFA was on the same computer Servers as Dimensions and members of both Website were active in both areas.

Since the creation of the BHM/FFA area I have been there a lot and seem that you have only posted there 4 times in your entire time at Dimensions. I do post in most of the areas that you frequent.

I know that I have not said that Fat Mens bodies were physically measured or quantified in Fat Acceptance. I have just questioned the reaction in Fat Acceptance to experiences shared by Fat Men.

I have not ever questioned the proactive and empathic responses to the stories shared by Fat Men either.

I have only questioned the need of so many people in Fat Acceptance to respond to experiences of Fat Men with responses of how Fat Women have it worse. Now there is nothing wrong with talking about the differences in the experiences of Fat Men and Women, but these responses always seem to automatically be amended to the experiences of Fat Men.

Fat Women share their experiences everyday in Fat Acceptance I never see anyone have the need to balance the statements with experiences of Fat Men?

I will not single any person here on Dimensions but several do react as if every Fat Male experience must have a balancing commentary.

Olwen says that she is flabbergasted

Well nothing that I have said here in this thread is anything that has not been repeated by Fat Men since the dawn of the creation of Fat Acceptance. 

I will not get angry and leave (which happens to so many Fat Men in conversations like these) and I will be here to answer your questions. I applaud Fat Acceptance for changing as it has over the years, but change is a never ending endeavor

William





ripley said:


> The part I put in bold is hilarious to me. Have you been around here very long, William? 'Cause as a woman, I gotta tell ya, I'm always being asked to quantify and qualify my very body for the opposite sex. Are you a Pear? Are you an Hourglass? How big are your thighs? Bigger than my waist? Bigger than your own waist? What do you weigh? Does your belly have one roll? Two? Three? How much do you weigh? What are your measurements?
> 
> Your second paragraph...I have to ask, where have people done this to fat men? Where is all this "always picking over what you have said, testing, rejecting what you shared"? When a fat man says "I was ignored in the bar, I ended up feeling bad," a lot of people, women AND OTHER MEN, often say "I know how you feel, when XYZ happened to me I felt awful." That is not one-upping the fat man, this is commiseration and empathy, and support that the person is not alone.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, where is this going on? What stories are "suspect"?
> 
> 
> 
> Every? Always? Again, where is this happening? Link me to some posts, because I am totally missing this pandemic.


----------



## Tina

William, I said on the BHM board a while ago that I haven't personally seen (and certainly not on the new board) BHMs being attacked for posting just as a BHM (unless, of course, he's being a jerk, and that's more a personality thing than a BHM thing), or putting down his pics, etc. I vowed, and meant it, that were I ever to see it I would personally take care of it. I meant that. I encouraged those reading my post to report such posts.

I must say that I have never seen such things. I am not trying to say that just because I haven't seen it that it hasn't happened, but until more recently, I generally read a lot of the threads. I can't see everything, even if I devoted an entire day to it, which I won't, but I see a good number of posts. I also usually start out by cruising the Admin board and the reported posts so I can do my job. So, if there's a problem, report it. No one might see the incident if it's not reported. There have been times I've posted myself in a thread where there have been glaring insults, but because I can't always read every post in a longer thread, I don't see them. So I post and people think I'm endorsing whatever insult there is because I posted without removing the insult or attack. Just because a post is reported, that doesn't mean it will be acted upon, if we discuss it and decide it's not actionable within our guidelines, but it's for sure that if people do not report offending posts, we just might not see them.


----------



## SocialbFly

can we just bury the fucking horse, it is so dead it is rotting now...can we agree to disagree and fricking go forward???


GOOD GRIEF.....

(not discounting anyones feelings but for gosh sakes, come on..................)

i know, i know, if i dont like it, go to another thread....so here i my exit............................

cripes..................

(mumbling as i walk out the fricking door)


----------



## ripley

William said:


> Hi Ripley
> 
> I know that I have been on this site as far back as when NAAFA was on the same computer Servers as Dimensions and members of both Website were active in both areas.
> 
> Since the creation of the BHM/FFA area I have been there a lot and seem that you have only posted there 4 times in your entire time at Dimensions. I do post in most of the areas that you frequent.



Yes, I've only posted there four times, but I don't see the relevance? And no, I haven't been around as long as you have been...are you trying to say that these "always" and "every" things that affront fat men are from a long time ago?



William said:


> I know that I have not said that Fat Mens bodies were physically measured or quantified in Fat Acceptance.




I never said you did say that, William. I said that the irony of you getting mad over fat men being quantified and measured struck me as funny, because as a woman I can tell you we *really* understand.



William said:


> I have just questioned the reaction in Fat Acceptance to experiences shared by Fat Men.



Once again...where? 



William said:


> I have not ever questioned the proactive and empathic responses to the stories shared by Fat Men either.



I didn't say you did. I was offering that as a possible alternative take on what you may see as oneupmanship. 



William said:


> I have only questioned the need of so many people in Fat Acceptance to respond to experiences of Fat Men with responses of how Fat Women have it worse. Now there is nothing wrong with talking about the differences in the experiences of Fat Men and Women, but these responses always seem to automatically be amended to the experiences of Fat Men.



Personally, I don't give a rat's ass who has it worse. We all have a tough time of it, and I find this tempest in a teacup you've created more divisive than purported cases of "but women have it worse." (And like I said, by virtue of gender, women *have* had things worse then men.)



William said:


> Fat Women share their experiences everyday in Fat Acceptance I never see anyone have the need to balance the statements with experiences of Fat Men?



It is up to fat men to balance those statements if they so wish. No one is stopping them. No one stops them from ever giving their opinion, their life experience, their tale of how it is to be a fat man in today's society. 




William said:


> Well nothing that I have said here in this thread is anything that has not been repeated by Fat Men since the dawn of the creation of Fat Acceptance.



If it's been going on that long and this is the first we've heard of it, it must not bother them very much.



William said:


> I will not get angry and leave (which happens to so many Fat Men in conversations like these) and I will be here to answer your questions. I applaud Fat Acceptance for changing as it has over the years, but change is a never ending endeavor
> 
> William



I'm glad you won't get angry and leave. I don't know if you're trying to say that us uppity women run off the men, so we better be careful what we say and how we say it...but if that is what you mean I think it's pretty crappy.

What do you want from us, William? We're all aware of it now, and I bet will watch our language better, and not say "but women have it worse" so isn't that enough? We can't change history, so it is going to have to be.




You know, you like to talk about double standards a lot, William. Here's one for you to chew on. 

Dimensions has a pretty firm "no personal ads" rule. Yet personal ad type threads seem pretty popular on the BHM/FFA board. What's your take on that one?


----------



## butch

William, if you're sticking to your guns, please do me and everyone else a favor, and start a thread letting us know what it is you'd like to see happen in SA/FA for fat men. Those of us who have offered to help fat men feel more welcome in SA/FA circles have been waiting for a blueprint, and none is forthcoming. 

All we get is complaints about what is happening, or what is lacking, but no constructive comments on what can be done. Seriously, if you can't do more than complain, you'll never get what you want.

Action, please, not reaction, will get you what you claim to want, William.


----------



## William

Ripley

The amount of times that you have posted on the BHM/FFA Board makes about as much sense as you asking if I have been around long.

I just do not see the connection between Fat Male experiences being questioned and Fat Women being virtually measured by Fat Admirers. What you are talking about has more to do Fat Admiration than Fat Acceptance. 

I applaud you on not caring which gender is treated worse and it makes sense because people are individuals, not generalizations like Fat Men have it easier.

Whenever Fat Men do question these issues it ends in a debate like this. I wish more guys would just jump in absorb the attacks (many warm and empathic) and stand their ground

The only reason that I stay in Fat Acceptance is the islands of gender sanity that I have found in Fat Acceptance. I have always frequented Yahoo areas where people talk about Fat People, not Fat Women or Men. Women there do talk about Fat Female issues, but they seem to identify more as a Fat Person on most posts. Blogs have been started be people (mostly women) that do not take Fat Acceptance on face value and very interesting conversations (not debates) have been carried on.

Areas like Dimensions BHM/FFA are also great.

People making personal ads should be first warned then banned.


Hi Tina

I would never call what I am talking about attacks or even rudeness. They are more like passive-aggressive comments that seem to be a requirement in response to shared Fat Male experiences. Some Fat Acceptance areas have gotten over this, some have not, especially communities with ties to the Fat Acceptance of the 80s & 90s. This is why when looking for Fat Acceptance that is gender neutral; I rely on several Blogs or BHM areas.

Several people have asked for links as proof, well I did not bookmark them as I saw them. These problems are not something that I just discovered, Fat Men have been complaining about these issues for a long time.

Any thing that I have said in this thread applies to Fat Acceptance in General, not Dimensions.



Hi Butch

I could suggest that we all go to gender sensitivity classes : )

I think that for a start at making things better would be that Fat Male experiences do not need to so often be compare and classified in reference to Fat Female experiences. When Fat Men have their bad Fat Days it was not like there was Fat Women standing next to them receiving the worse of it for them or something. For most people it is a personal experience. 

Maybe more Fat Men will feel comfortable about posting. I think that making fewer generalizations in statements would be a good thing. An example is that someone shared Fat Female experiences in Doctors Office like all fat men have fun undressing down to their underpants and being examined or doing a stress test in nothing but their underpants.

In ending please do not make this out as something I am just uncovering because we all know that these problem issues have been bothering BHM forever. Maybe that is why these debates happen time after time, because of denial.

William





ripley said:


> Yes, I've only posted there four times, but I don't see the relevance? And no, I haven't been around as long as you have been...are you trying to say that these "always" and "every" things that affront fat men are from a long time ago?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never said you did say that, William. I said that the irony of you getting mad over fat men being quantified and measured struck me as funny, because as a woman I can tell you we *really* understand.
> 
> 
> 
> Once again...where?
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say you did. I was offering that as a possible alternative take on what you may see as oneupmanship.
> 
> 
> 
> Personally, I don't give a rat's ass who has it worse. We all have a tough time of it, and I find this tempest in a teacup you've created more divisive than purported cases of "but women have it worse." (And like I said, by virtue of gender, women *have* had things worse then men.)
> 
> 
> 
> It is up to fat men to balance those statements if they so wish. No one is stopping them. No one stops them from ever giving their opinion, their life experience, their tale of how it is to be a fat man in today's society.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If it's been going on that long and this is the first we've heard of it, it must not bother them very much.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad you won't get angry and leave. I don't know if you're trying to say that us uppity women run off the men, so we better be careful what we say and how we say it...but if that is what you mean I think it's pretty crappy.
> 
> What do you want from us, William? We're all aware of it now, and I bet will watch our language better, and not say "but women have it worse" so isn't that enough? We can't change history, so it is going to have to be.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You know, you like to talk about double standards a lot, William. Here's one for you to chew on.
> 
> Dimensions has a pretty firm "no personal ads" rule. Yet personal ad type threads seem pretty popular on the BHM/FFA board. What's your take on that one?


----------



## ripley

William said:


> Ripley
> 
> The amount of times that you have posted on the BHM/FFA Board makes about as much sense as you asking if I have been around long.
> 
> I just do not see the connection between Fat Male experiences being questioned and Fat Women being virtually measured by Fat Admirers. What you are talking about has more to do Fat Admiration than Fat Acceptance.
> 
> I applaud you on not caring which gender is treated worse and it makes sense because people are individuals, not generalizations like Fat Men have it easier.
> 
> Whenever Fat Men do question these issues it ends in a debate like this. I wish more guys would just jump in absorb the attacks (many warm and empathic) and stand their ground
> 
> The only reason that I stay in Fat Acceptance is the islands of gender sanity that I have found in Fat Acceptance. I have always frequented Yahoo areas where people talk about Fat People, not Fat Women or Men. Women there do talk about Fat Female issues, but they seem to identify more as a Fat Person on most posts. Blogs have been started be people (mostly women) that do not take Fat Acceptance on face value and very interesting conversations (not debates) have been carried on.
> 
> Areas like Dimensions BHM/FFA are also great.
> 
> People making personal ads should be first warned then banned.



William,

I'm not intending to insult or to be mean, but you are very hard to discuss things with. I think your style of discourse does your cause more harm than good. 

I think you've pretty much worn us all out, but I don't know how much good you did for your cause.


----------



## Smite

For anyone who didn't jump the gun on him just because he spoke out, he didn't do any harm to.


----------



## ripley

Smite said:


> For anyone who didn't jump the gun on him just because he spoke out, he didn't do any harm to.



I don't believe I did "jump the gun on him"...I tried to get a conversation going and failed. I don't believe I was ever mean to him, and I don't believe he harmed any person...just his cause.


----------



## William

Hi Ripley

I agree with you about my posts being hard to follow, I will not put in the time to do multi-quotes and simply answer them as one big post.

William





ripley said:


> William,
> 
> I'm not intending to insult or to be mean, but you are very hard to discuss things with. I think your style of discourse does your cause more harm than good.
> 
> I think you've pretty much worn us all out, but I don't know how much good you did for your cause.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

I'm starting to wish I had one of those lollercopter gifs at this point....

Oh well...these will have to do...

































Oh...if you could see me sitting here laughing at wet willie kitteh right now.....it's just wrong


----------



## ripley

This one is more my speed regarding this thread.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

ripley said:


> This one is more my speed regarding this thread.




That is not nearly as good as Wet Willeh Kitteh...admit it....


----------



## Wagimawr

bad time for a wet willeh, don'tcheh think?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Wagimawr said:


> bad time for a wet willeh, don'tcheh think?



Some people deserve one.....


AND a wedgie.....


----------



## ripley

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> That is not nearly as good as Wet Willeh Kitteh...admit it....



I think it's better, lol...


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

ripley said:


> I think it's better, lol...



*wet willehs Ripley*

Don't make me put you on the wedgy list.....


----------



## Famouslastwords

I took a picture of that callous cat thing with my cameraphone and sent it to my sister in law who does not have a computer.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Famouslastwords said:


> I took a picture of that callous cat thing with my cameraphone and sent it to my sister in law who does not have a computer.




Oh....so YOU don't like my Wet Willeh Kitteh either I see......


----------



## Famouslastwords

But Callous cat is soooo funny!


----------



## olwen

William said:


> Hi Olwen
> 
> When every Fat Male contribution to the Fat Acceptance must be rebutted, quantified and measured against a Fat Female experience that is more than just accepting the Fact that Fat Women get more abuse.
> 
> It seems that some Fat Women in Fat Acceptance cant abide Fat Men having more than the bare minimum presence in Fat Acceptance as Fat People. As Fat Supporters we are always welcome. I base this on the reactions to Fat Men sharing their experiences and the comments that always follow.
> 
> I will say that there are several Fat Acceptance Blogs where this is not so.
> 
> William



We can't abide fat men - bare minimum? We've already covered this. I'm ready to smash the broken record into pieces.



ripley said:


> William,
> 
> I'm not intending to insult or to be mean, but you are very hard to discuss things with. I think your style of discourse does your cause more harm than good.
> 
> *I think you've pretty much worn us all out, but I don't know how much good you did for your cause*.




I've been thinking the exact same thing.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

You know....I thought about this. Someone asked a question in another thread about why the "women in this thread" have reacted to William and Carl so much. I thought about it because it is a good question...worth answering.
My first thought is that William and Carl seem to feel they are "owed" something...as stated earlier. But when I thought about it more....it bothers me most that they aren't asking to be found "sexy" by fat acceptance.....even "women". It reads to me as if he thinks only FAT women should be forking something over....why is that? Why aren't these things being demanded on other boards, as well? Why only here? Do they not feel worthy to ask it of others...but it's okay to ask the fatty girls because they are not as good as the others? 
Why is it that FAT women "owe"? Are we second class in their eyes? Oh how ironic...they want to be treated as "more" whilst treating others as "less". That pisses me off.....
They don't seem to be demanding this of ALL women..... they are demanding this from "fat acceptance" or rather, more along the lines of fat women (It was mainly fat women posting in the hot boy thread, wasn't it? See why I think it's fat women?) 
Why aren't they howling about the "unfairness of the world at large"? Why only here? On a board that has a lot of fat woman posters? Why are they not put out with their brethen fat men for not doing more? Why aren't they demanding the FFAs "do more" than give them compliments for their pictures?
Why aren't they howling when the FFAs only compliment certain fat guys? Why aren't they howling when the people over on the weight board get excited over a woman that can't weigh 140 lbs soaking wet? 
Why is this only something that seems to concern "fat women" not doing something/enough for fat men? There are plenty of things to complain about if you look hard enough/really want to...but why? Why is it that fat women owe? and why is it only FAT women? 
Yeah, that seems like a good reason to be way annoyed with this thread and those with that attitude....

And as I have said repeatedly in this thread......"fat women" don't "owe" anyone because we're not second class citizens.....and I refuse to be treated like one.
Am I wrong? This is sure how it feels and reads to me......


----------



## William

Hi GEF

I think that I made it clear that I was not singling out Dimensions on this matter, I just happen to have answered the other thread that was about the different Acceptance that Fat Women and Men receive. I got indirectly drawn into this thread. I also have posted about Fat Acceptance view of Fat Men on BFB, FaT!So? and many Blogs.

I do not think that saying that Fat Men are more than the stereotypical conversations that dominate Fat Acceptance is saying that Fat Men are "owed" anything.

I make these comments in Fat Acceptance because I do not think that the world at large cares what Fat Acceptance says about Fat Men. 

I did say that Fat Women should be treated anyway other than what they want, the point I was making would not change anything about how Fat Women are treated in Fat Acceptance. I was only saying that Fat Men are more than the one dimensional stereotypes that usually are used to describe the experiences of Fat Men.

William






Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You know....I thought about this. Someone asked a question in another thread about why the "women in this thread" have reacted to William and Carl so much. I thought about it because it is a good question...worth answering.
> My first thought is that William and Carl seem to feel they are "owed" something...as stated earlier. But when I thought about it more....it bothers me most that they aren't asking to be found "sexy" by fat acceptance.....even "women". It reads to me as if he thinks only FAT women should be forking something over....why is that? Why aren't these things being demanded on other boards, as well? Why only here? Do they not feel worthy to ask it of others...but it's okay to ask the fatty girls because they are not as good as the others?
> Why is it that FAT women "owe"? Are we second class in their eyes? Oh how ironic...they want to be treated as "more" whilst treating others as "less". That pisses me off.....
> They don't seem to be demanding this of ALL women..... they are demanding this from "fat acceptance" or rather, more along the lines of fat women (It was mainly fat women posting in the hot boy thread, wasn't it? See why I think it's fat women?)
> Why aren't they howling about the "unfairness of the world at large"? Why only here? On a board that has a lot of fat woman posters? Why are they not put out with their brethen fat men for not doing more? Why aren't they demanding the FFAs "do more" than give them compliments for their pictures?
> Why aren't they howling when the FFAs only compliment certain fat guys? Why aren't they howling when the people over on the weight board get excited over a woman that can't weigh 140 lbs soaking wet?
> Why is this only something that seems to concern "fat women" not doing something/enough for fat men? There are plenty of things to complain about if you look hard enough/really want to...but why? Why is it that fat women owe? and why is it only FAT women?
> Yeah, that seems like a good reason to be way annoyed with this thread and those with that attitude....
> 
> And as I have said repeatedly in this thread......"fat women" don't "owe" anyone because we're not second class citizens.....and I refuse to be treated like one.
> Am I wrong? This is sure how it feels and reads to me......


----------



## CleverBomb

This community is comprised of people who are here either because of their size or because of their orientation (though some are here for both reasons).

Most of the people here because of their size, are female.
Most of the people here because of their orientation, are male.

It's probably a safe assumption that size-orientation is not terribly different in the BBW/BHM community than in the population as a whole (though I expect there's some upward bias).

So, here, _most_ of the folks are drawn to either big women, or the same range of men as everyone else, including the usual fascination with celebrities.

And, since most of the folks here _are_ either big women or men of a fairly-typical size distribution, on the whole it mostly works out with few ruffled feathers.

The conflicts arise when people highlight that the objects of their own orientation lie outside the BBW/BHM group. And the reactions are pretty much what you'd expect given the site's demographics.

-Rusty

(And at this far a remove from the original post, I have no idea who I'm agreeing with or disagreeing with. Just making an observation.)


----------



## CAMellie

I like cheese.


----------



## Sweet Tooth

Yay! You got us to 40 pages!


----------



## CAMellie

Sweet Tooth said:


> Yay! You got us to 40 pages!



I was possessed. Do I get a prize now?


----------



## Rowan

Smoked gouda is a tasty tasty cheeZe


----------



## Suze

CAMellie said:


> I like cheese.



me too :blink:


----------



## CAMellie

Rowan said:


> Smoked gouda is a tasty tasty cheeZe



It's my very favorite cheese EVER! :wubu:


----------



## Buffie

This thread is still going? Oh M F G. LOL 

If there were such a thing as Dims Awards, y'know, like the Oscars... (except it would be the Chubbies. Hee hee hee!) ...this thread would win a Chubbie for best dramatic slow death for a thread on the Main Board - 2008. 

Very fun, though. Please carry on with the cheese...


----------



## Santaclear

Hi.

I enjoy many types of cheese as well.

Santaclear


----------



## Rowan

my favorite cheeZe is melty melty cheeZe


----------



## olwen

I just came back from Cincinnati and discovered to my horror that the presence of cheese sauce turns anything into "mexican" food. Yikes.


----------



## CAMellie

I had a chili cheezeburger and chili cheeze fries for dinner last night. I really love cheeze.


----------



## olwen

CAMellie said:


> I had a chili cheezeburger and chili cheeze fries for dinner last night. I really love cheeze.



I'm actually not a huge fan of cheese. It's weird. Preserved milk. What a concept.


----------



## ripley

Cheese - milk's leap toward immortality. 
Clifton Fadiman


----------



## Santaclear

Hello,

Cheese reaches out like finely spun perma-milk, across history, through the tunnel into the unknown future, and out across the galaxies to emerge triumphant and moldy.

Santaclear


----------



## Buffie

I hear the moon is made of cheez. 

View attachment spongmonkey1.jpg


----------



## CAMellie

View attachment 44564


I need cheeze for my nachos


----------



## Shosh

I love feta cheese.:bow:


----------



## Santaclear

Hi,

I enjoy certain types of pizza too. They often have melted cheese on them. :bow:

Your friend,
Santaclear


----------



## Fascinita

Hi Susannah and Grizzly Adams (and everyone else),

I love fetid cheese.

~Fasc


----------



## JoyJoy

Goat Cheese.


----------



## CleverBomb

Buffie said:


> This thread is still going? Oh M F G. LOL
> 
> If there were such a thing as Dims Awards, y'know, like the Oscars... (except it would be the Chubbies. Hee hee hee!) ...this thread would win a Chubbie for best dramatic slow death for a thread on the Main Board - 2008.
> 
> Very fun, though. Please carry on with the cheese...


Woohoo, we're all gonna get Chubbies!

...wait, that sounded wrong.

-Rusty


----------



## Santaclear

Seriously, now. We need to get this thread back on track.


----------



## Suze

^
oh please, dear gawd...noooooooooooooooooooooo.


----------



## CAMellie

cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese


----------



## Shosh

Or we could discuss the current situation in Afghanistan.:bow:


----------



## CAMellie

Susannah said:


> Or we could discuss the current situation in Afghanistan.:bow:



Nope...just cheese :kiss2:


----------



## Shosh

CAMellie said:


> Nope...just cheese :kiss2:



I hate the mouldy kind. Insert vomitting smiley.


----------



## CAMellie

Susannah said:


> I hate the mouldy kind. Insert vomitting smiley.



Okies...no mouldy cheese for ShoshieBoo. Got it! How about some smoked gouda?


----------



## Shosh

CAMellie said:


> Okies...no mouldy cheese for ShoshieBoo. Got it! How about some smoked gouda?



I love Welsh rarebit. That is cheese on toast I do believe.:bow:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

CleverBomb said:


> Woohoo, we're all gonna get Chubbies!
> 
> ...wait, that sounded wrong.
> 
> -Rusty





Errrmmmmmm....I said wedgies first..........


----------



## Waxwing

I just melted some raw milk pepper jack over some sauteed broccoli. 

NUMMY. :eat1:


----------



## William

Good luck Fred

You'll need it!!!!

William




fred said:


> hey there can we be friends


----------



## Famouslastwords

Susannah said:


> I hate the mouldy kind. Insert vomitting smiley.



How's this? 

View attachment porcelain-pumpkin.jpg


----------



## stan_der_man

I totally lost that great walrus sound I promised Fascinita many pages ago... I'm so bummed.


Oh well, this will have to do...  a camel is the next best thing I suppose.


----------



## Buffie

Here... enjoy some interesting facts about cheese. http://fortes.com/2007/04/05/interesting-facts-about-cheese/


----------



## Santaclear

What about some of the great walrus cheeses I've been hearing about? How do those measure up?


----------



## Suze

is it possible to find cheese that _doesen't_ melt?

(oh man, i really should be sleeping now.)


----------



## stan_der_man

Santaclear said:


> What about some of the great walrus cheeses I've been hearing about? How do those measure up?



I've heard that walrus cheese is quite tough and difficult to coo coo ca choo... so says the eggman.


----------



## Fascinita

I am the walrus cheese.

PS - Do we need a hot cheese thread?


----------



## daddyoh70

Now you've all gone and done it.. I'm hankering for a hunk of, a slab or slice or chunk of.....CHEESE






Click on the link for the full cheese effectHankerin for a hunk


----------



## Santaclear

susieQ said:


> is it possible to find cheese that _doesn't_ melt?
> 
> (oh man, i really should be sleeping now.)



I've heard that some of the fossil cheeses are best for that. They retain hardness when cooked but are beyond crispy.


----------



## daddyoh70

Fascinita said:


> PS - Do we need a hot cheese thread?



Hmmmmmmmmm, then don't we run the risk of the bologna lovers starting an "i hate the hot cheese thread?" I'm thinking maybe a "Would you like to watch Bruce Campbell eat a cheese sandwich poll"


----------



## Suze

*Excited*

the only problem is...where can i find fossil cheese??


----------



## Buffie

daddyoh70 said:


> Hmmmmmmmmm, then don't we run the risk of the bologna lovers starting an "i hate the hot cheese thread?" I'm thinking maybe a "Would you like to watch Bruce Campbell eat a cheese sandwich poll"



Like "I'm the girl who hates the idea of hating the hot cheese thread in the i hate the hot boy thread" thread?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

daddyoh70 said:


> Hmmmmmmmmm, then don't we run the risk of the bologna lovers starting an "i hate the hot cheese thread?" I'm thinking maybe a "Would you like to watch Bruce Campbell eat a cheese sandwich poll"




But swiss cheese just really isn't that sexy to me......but that cheddar cheese...now that bitch OWES me something....melt me, baby, melt me.....


Why settle for bologna when you can have boiled ham anyway? :doh:


----------



## Santaclear

susieQ said:


> *Excited*
> 
> the only problem is...where can i find fossil cheese??



Maybe museum gift shops have them?


----------



## Fascinita

daddyoh70 said:


> "Would you like to watch Bruce Campbell eat a cheese sandwich poll"



The answer's "Yes." Eating a cheese sandwich, naked, and gay.


----------



## stan_der_man

Buffie said:


> Like "I'm the girl who hates the idea of hating the hot cheese thread in the i hate the hot boy thread" thread?




Whine and cheese...







They do go together Buffie. I think this thread is a perfect match.


----------



## Suze

Santaclear said:


> Maybe museum gift shops have them?



gonna keep that in mind next time i visit. thanks, Santa!:kiss2: 

View attachment IMG_3296.JPG


----------



## Santaclear

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> But swiss cheese just really isn't that sexy to me......but that cheddar cheese...now that bitch OWES me something....melt me, baby, melt me.....
> Why settle for bologna when you can have boiled ham anyway? :doh:



Guys like swiss cheese because of all the holes. 

Who doesn't love a lotta baloney tho? :eat2:

(Note: the second pic came up from Google as "fine bologna.") 

View attachment baloney.jpg


View attachment bologna_apartments1.jpg


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Santaclear said:


> Guys like swiss cheese because of all the holes.
> 
> Who doesn't love a lotta baloney tho? :eat2:
> 
> (Note: the second pic came up from Google as "fine bologna.")




Those big, fat, long, long rolls of meat are kind of hawt....:wubu:


----------



## mejix

its like this thread is decomposing

or its like wandering across a post apocalyptic landscape


----------



## CAMellie

mejix said:


> its like this thread is decomposing
> 
> or its like wandering across a post apocalyptic landscape



We love cheese...and bologna, apparently.


----------



## JoyJoy




----------



## stan_der_man

As soon as this conversation turns from bologna to brats, somebody please send me a PM... I'll bring the beer.







BTW... This is the Foodie board isn't it!?


----------



## stan_der_man

mejix said:


> its like this thread is decomposing
> 
> or its like wandering across a post apocalyptic landscape



If this thread follows the typical pattern of implosion... we may be seeing gamma rays fairly soon.






If I were you, I'd put on some shades.


----------



## Santaclear

Salami reprazent. :bow: 

View attachment salamis.jpg


----------



## olwen

This cheesy progression is okay in my book as long as we don't start quibbling over the merits of hard cheeses vs soft and how my hatred of bologna doesn't turn into flame war.


----------



## Carl1h

olwen said:


> my hatred of bologna



Your hatred of bologna is obviously based on Freudian penis envy. 

Unfortunately, so is my hatred of bologna.


----------



## olwen

Carl1h said:


> Your hatred of bologna is obviously based on Freudian penis envy.
> 
> Unfortunately, so is my hatred of bologna.



LOL, actually my hatred of bologna is based on eating bologna everyday for lunch as a kid. I begged my father to buy ham, but bologna prevailed since it was cheaper. I hate bologna.  But any envy I'd have over preserved meats would be directed at salami for obvious reasons. :blush: 

Would a hatred of peaches be the result of vagina envy? Hmmm.....


----------



## Carl1h

olwen said:


> Would a hatred of peaches be the result of vagina envy? Hmmm.....



Peaches? For me, the symbolic fruit would be the fresh fig. I love fresh figs though, so if it has to be something hated... maybe food items aren't the best source for me to draw from.


----------



## olwen

mmmm figs....well now I'm just plain hungry.


----------



## CAMellie

*beams proudly* One I like cheese statement has saved the day. 
BRING ON THE SALAMI AND CRACKERS!


----------



## Fascinita

olwen said:


> Would a hatred of peaches be the result of vagina envy? Hmmm.....



Oh, wait, wait... Let me psychoanalyze you, olwen. OK?

(Wait for it, it's coming...)

<furiously scribbling on my pad, stroking my beard and adjusting my wire-rim glasses>

Hmmm.... I don't know. Do _you_ think a hatred of peaches is the result of vagina envy?


----------



## stan_der_man

Carl1h said:


> Peaches? For me, the symbolic fruit would be the fresh fig. I love fresh figs though, so if it has to be something hated... maybe food items aren't the best source for me to draw from.



When I click on the "fresh fig" link you posted, it says that it's "forbidden". I thought apples were the forbidden fruit?


These are my favorite figs...


----------



## olwen

Fascinita said:


> Oh, wait, wait... Let me psychoanalyze you, olwen. OK?
> 
> (Wait for it, it's coming...)
> 
> <furiously scribbling on my pad, stroking my beard and adjusting my wire-rim glasses>
> 
> Hmmm.... I don't know. Do _you_ think a hatred of peaches is the result of vagina envy?



Only if the peaches have teeth. Ha!


----------



## Carl1h

fa_man_stan said:


> When I click on the "fresh fig" link you posted, it says that it's "forbidden". I thought apples were the forbidden fruit?



Now I'm going to get in trouble for posting dirty pics of naked fresh figs.


----------



## Fascinita

Are those tiny little teeth I see in those figs? <squinting>


----------



## olwen

Fascinita said:


> Are those tiny little teeth I see in those figs? <squinting>



You took the teeth right out of my vagina. Oh no, my power...I'm melting, I'm mellllllltiiiiinnnnnn.......


Oh my, how lewd was that? Ewwww. LOL


----------



## RedVelvet

Carl1h said:


> Now I'm going to get in trouble for posting dirty pics of naked fresh figs.



Aw god...I love those....looove them....

love.


----------



## Tina

They're very pretty. I've never had a raw fig, though. Is that prosciutto with them? :eat2:


----------



## olwen

Does anybody else want to see this thread go to 50 pages?

Live the dream.


----------



## William

Hi Olwen

Well the Hot Boy Thread was not that important but there was some BHM themes in this thread that will reappear again. I hope they are handled better next time.

William




olwen said:


> Does anybody else want to see this thread go to 50 pages?
> 
> Live the dream.


----------



## olwen

William said:


> Hi Olwen
> 
> Well the Hot Boy Thread was not that important but there was some BHM themes in this thread that will reappear again. I hope they are handled better next time.
> 
> William



Perhaps next time you all will mount a more coherent defense. I'm not saying that to be mean. I'm just saying part of the reason for all the chaos is because of the way this topic was "debated." Seriously. I think the issue would be better served if you try a little harder to argue your points with more clarity and thoughtfulness.

I for one am glad this thread has degenerated into something so silly as the merits of cheese and the personification of fruit. It has allowed us to all blow off some steam and relax a little bit - a very needed thing after such heady "discussion."

And now, more fruit and cheese please.


----------



## William

Well carry on with your special message here to BHMs, I brought work home from the Job 

I'll reply later

William




olwen said:


> Perhaps next time you all will mount a more coherent defense. I'm not saying that to be mean. I'm just saying part of the reason for all the chaos is because of the way this topic was "debated." Seriously. I think the issue would be better served if you try a little harder to argue your points with more clarity and thoughtfulness.
> 
> I for one am glad this thread has degenerated into something so silly as the merits of cheese and the personification of fruit. It has allowed us to all blow off some steam and relax a little bit - a very needed thing after such heady "discussion."
> 
> And now, more fruit and cheese please.


----------



## Fascinita

olwen, my dear...

You seem to be asking for it, so here it is:

"Three Hurt Chasing Giant Cheese"


----------



## CAMellie

oh man...a near derailment


BRING ON THE CHEESE AND FRUIT!


----------



## olwen

Fascinita said:


> olwen, my dear...
> 
> You seem to be asking for it, so here it is:
> 
> "Three Hurt Chasing Giant Cheese"



Man, all that for 9lbs of cheese? I'd say anything under 20lbs wouldn't be worth it.


----------



## Fascinita

olwen said:


> Man, all that for 9lbs of cheese? I'd say anything under 20lbs wouldn't be worth it.



A size queen, if I ever saw one 

Here ya go!


----------



## olwen

Now THAT's cheese.


----------



## olwen

One day I want to visit the Mustard Museum:

http://www.mustardweb.com/index.htm


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Fascinita said:


> A size queen, if I ever saw one
> 
> Here ya go!




Did someone say Size Queen? You rang?


----------



## Fascinita

olwen said:


> One day I want to visit the Mustard Museum:
> 
> http://www.mustardweb.com/index.htm



I love mustard, but I miss the flavor of cheese 

Is there a product that will satisfy my craving for both? :eat2:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Is it a BIG bottle of mustard?


----------



## CAMellie

Fascinita said:


> I love mustard, but I miss the flavor of cheese
> 
> Is there a product that will satisfy my craving for both? :eat2:



Mustard Cheese Spread


----------



## Surlysomething

I love hot boys


that is all
:wubu:


----------



## Fascinita

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Is it a BIG bottle of mustard?



Big bologna. Big cheese. Big mustard. Big Sol's Giant Lower East Side Delicatessen. HUGE construction workers ordering sandwiches on their lunch break, muscles glistening wanly in the fluorescent light.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Did I tell you I like it big, Fasc? Have I mentioned that? Because, you know, it's important and stuff......


----------



## CAMellie

Size is NOT everything! *screams and runs from the hail of objects flung*


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Yeah, yeah I just told you that so you wouldn't feel bad about your not so big eyebrows......:doh:


----------



## Fascinita

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Did I tell you I like it big, Fasc? Have I mentioned that? Because, you know, it's important and stuff......



Big and hot?

I tend to like big and hot....


'''


tofu dogs.

With Mustard Cheese spread, of course.


----------



## CAMellie

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Yeah, yeah I just told you that so you wouldn't feel bad about your not so big eyebrows......:doh:



My eyebrows are PERFECT! Don't be hatin'. Pft!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Fascinita said:


> Big and hot?
> 
> I tend to like big and hot....
> 
> 
> '''
> 
> 
> tofu dogs.



Ermmmmmmm... big IS hot...ya know.......:happy:


----------



## Fascinita

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Ermmmmmmm... big IS hot...ya know.......:happy:



Yeah.  LOL.

Big _is_ hot.

And that's cool.

(We're almost at 45 pages! If the servers crash, it won't be my fault" :guilty: )


----------



## CAMellie

Dear Fascinita,

I offered unto you Mustard Cheese Spread and was brutally rebuffed. I'm sorry, but I will have to demand retribution for pain and suffering. Pistols at dawn? *smacks you in the face with a glove*

Sincerely,
Mellie


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

CAMellie said:


> Dear Fascinita,
> 
> I offered unto you Mustard Cheese Spread and was brutally rebuffed. I'm sorry, but I will have to demand retribution for pain and suffering. Pistols at dawn? *smacks you in the face with a glove*
> 
> Sincerely,
> Mellie



Sorry Mellie.....my eyebrows are bigger

and she loves my HUGE.......tweezers  :batting:


----------



## CAMellie

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Sorry Mellie.....my eyebrows are bigger
> 
> and she loves my HUGE.......tweezers  :batting:



Excuse me? It's the 2nd's job to wait in the background...and HUSH!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

CAMellie said:


> Excuse me? It's the 2nd's job to wait in the background...and HUSH!




Does this mean I get to watch? :batting:


----------



## Fascinita

CAMellie said:


> Dear Fascinita,
> 
> I offered unto you Mustard Cheese Spread and was brutally rebuffed. I'm sorry, but I will have to demand retribution for pain and suffering. Pistols at dawn? *smacks you in the face with a glove*
> 
> Sincerely,
> Mellie



Wha...? *gob* I'm ub to by... *nom nom * ... by ears in bus... *gob* in bustard cheese spwead.

Sorry. Can't duel. Busy eating naked mustard cheese spread. :eat1::eat1::eat1:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Fascinita said:


> Wha...? *gob* I'm ub to by... *nom nom * ... by ears in bus... *gob* in bustard cheese spwead.
> 
> Sorry. Can't duel. Busy eating naked mustard cheese spread. :eat1::eat1::eat1:




Did you get the.........ECONOMY SIZE JAR???????


----------



## CAMellie

Fascinita said:


> Wha...? *gob* I'm ub to by... *nom nom * ... by ears in bus... *gob* in bustard cheese spwead.
> 
> Sorry. Can't duel. Busy eating naked mustard cheese spread. :eat1::eat1::eat1:




You like it! You REALLY like it! *clutches an Oscar and snivels* The duel has been called off now. *swoons*


*PAGE 45 YEEHAW!!!*


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Is "oscar" some kind of metaphor? For like, you know, some great big.....jar of mustard?


----------



## CAMellie

Now I want an Oscar made of cheese so I can dip it in mustard :doh:


----------



## Fascinita

Ladies, speaking of dueling...

Let's go to town on these gargantuan pickes in this here jar. 







Let's tear these pickles a new one!

Ready? Set? Go!


----------



## CAMellie

Oh man! I wanna lick, suck, and nibble on those HUGE, luscious....pickles! :blush:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

You always go too far Mellie!!!!!!!


----------



## CAMellie

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You always go too far Mellie!!!!!!!




Or is it never far enough? Think about it. JUST...think about it.


----------



## Fascinita

Green, before I let you take my... erm... my _pickle_ out, tell me, what are your intentions?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

CAMellie said:


> Or is it never far enough? Think about it. JUST...think about it.




Oh, believe me.....I'm thinking about just how HUGE my tweezers are getting right now...... :smitten:


----------



## CAMellie

Fascinita said:


> Green, before I let you take my... erm... my _pickle_ out, tell me, what are your intentions?




I fear for the safety of your...pickle. *weeps* OH THE HUMANITY!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Fascinita said:


> Green, before I let you take my... erm... my _pickle_ out, tell me, what are your intentions?





*takes a big bite, chews and swallows fervently....looks up and asks "Did you say something?" * :doh:


----------



## Fascinita

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> *takes a big bite, chews and swallows fervently....looks up and asks "Did you say something?" * :doh:



Are we pushing for 46?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Fascinita said:


> Are we pushing for 46?




How many times do I have to say it? THE BIGGER THE BETTER!!!


----------



## daddyoh70

CAMellie said:


> Oh man! I wanna lick, suck, and nibble on those HUGE, luscious....pickles! :blush:





Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You always go too far Mellie!!!!!!!



Oh, I beg to differ GEF. I think she took it just far enough 

I'm with Olwen on this one too, I wanna see this thread hit the big Five-oh


----------



## CAMellie

daddyoh70 said:


> Oh, I beg to differ GEF. I think she took it just far enough
> 
> I'm with Olwen on this one too, I wanna see this thread hit the big Five-oh



*puts on a Bruce Campbell costume and winks at daddyoh*


----------



## Shosh

Famouslastwords said:


> How's this?



Ok Piper!


----------



## wrestlingguy

Cripes!! This thread has gone on 5 pages more than I predicted..................

I *HATE* being wrong!! Jeez, even Lilly thought it would only go....................................................................................................................hey..................................................................................................................wait.....................................................................

Figs, and CHEEZE!! MMMMMMM...........MUSTARD! OH, AND BOLOGNA, AND PICKLES!!!

Hey, did I go to the foodee board by mistake?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

I love BIG............ letters


----------



## daddyoh70

CAMellie said:


> *puts on a Bruce Campbell costume and winks at daddyoh*



Now there's a mental image I'm taking to the grave with me!!!


----------



## olwen

Mmmmm. This is turning into a smorgasbord, and I'm eating hot mustard as we speak. I poured it all over my big bowl of rice noodles. Yum.


----------



## Buffie

You guys are going for infamy with the hijacking of this thread. Those guys who did the TWA job in '85 weren't this diligent. 

I'm impressed.


----------



## daddyoh70

Hell, at this rate, we may hit 50 pages before midnight. 

Oh and....

HI GREEN EYED FAIRY!!!!


----------



## CAMellie

daddyoh70 said:


> Hell, at this rate, we may hit 50 pages before midnight.
> 
> Oh and....
> 
> HI GREEN EYED FAIRY!!!!



Ahem! Bruce Campbell costume here! *is jealous much*


----------



## olwen

Buffie said:


> You guys are going for infamy with the hijacking of this thread. Those guys who did the TWA job in '85 weren't this diligent.
> 
> I'm impressed.



That job didn't involve pickles, mustard, peaches, figs, salami, bologna, or cheese. Obviously, these things are worth all the trouble.


----------



## daddyoh70

CAMellie said:


> Ahem! Bruce Campbell costume here! *is jealous much*



**Promptly returns attention to BruceMellie** :wubu:


----------



## Buffie

olwen said:


> That job didn't involve pickles, mustard, peaches, figs, salami, bologna, or cheese. Obviously, these things are worth all the trouble.



Fair enough. I would probably hijack a plane for a good plate of nachos, now that I think about it. I almost smacked a Midwest flight attendant when she failed to bring me a hot chocolate chip cookie. 

Bologna, peaches, and cheese... the 3 forgotten food groups.


----------



## stan_der_man

Big Hot Mustard?


----------



## CAMellie

daddyoh70 said:


> **Promptly returns attention to BruceMellie** :wubu:



*adjusts costume* Gimme some sugar, baby.


----------



## daddyoh70

CAMellie said:


> *adjusts costume* Gimme some sugar, baby.



You wish is my command :bow:


----------



## CAMellie

daddyoh70 said:


> You wish is my command :bow:



*squeals and dances around in a VERY UN-Bruce Campbell-ish way*


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

daddyoh70 said:


> HI GREEN EYED FAIRY!!!!





fa_man_stan said:


> Big Hot Mustard?




*swoons and passes out*


----------



## olwen

fa_man_stan said:


> Big Hot Mustard?



This is just plain disturbing and creepy.



daddyoh70 said:


> You wish is my command :bow:



This just makes me want really fancy coffee.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

olwen said:


> This is just plain disturbing and creepy.



Does that mean that *I* get the first bite? :batting:


----------



## olwen

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Does that mean that *I* get the first bite? :batting:



Honey, I've no doubt you can swallow the whole thing.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

olwen said:


> Honey, I've no doubt you can swallow the whole thing.



You flatterer


----------



## olwen

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You flatterer



I aim to please.


----------



## sweet&fat

fa_man_stan said:


> Big Hot Mustard?



That looks like something by Paul McCarthy. Or maybe if it had actual ketchup on it...


----------



## CAMellie

View attachment 44768


cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese


----------



## Sweet Tooth

CAMellie said:


> View attachment 44768
> 
> 
> cheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeese



I just had a Wallace and Gromit moment.


----------



## Waxwing

daddyoh70 said:


> Now you've all gone and done it.. I'm hankering for a hunk of, a slab or slice or chunk of.....CHEESE
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click on the link for the full cheese effectHankerin for a hunk



You have no idea how long I've been wanting to see that again. Many many thanks.


----------



## SilkyAngela

For BHM lovers with a sweet tooth I submit:

Two Big Handsome/Hairy Men and a Big Honkin Moonpie 

Party on Garth. 

View attachment genthumb.jpg


----------



## CAMellie

SilkyAngela said:


> For BHM lovers with a sweet tooth I submit:
> 
> Two Big Handsome/Hairy Men and a Big Honkin Moonpie
> 
> Party on Garth.



Party on, Wayne. :eat2:


----------



## olwen

Just three more pages. We can do it!


----------



## Fascinita

olwen said:


> We can do it!


----------



## daddyoh70

Waxwing said:


> You have no idea how long I've been wanting to see that again. Many many thanks.



My pleasure. I'm just glad there are people here who know what the heck that is  My kids look at me like this :blink: when I walk around singing it. The looks got worse when I showed them the video


----------



## Blackjack

Fascinita said:


>



YEAH BAYBEE


----------



## mossystate

+++++++++++++


----------



## goofy girl

Have you ever heard of eating cheese drizzled with honey?? I heard it on the Today show and it sounds strange...


----------



## snuggletiger

No but I had a cream puff with rum flavored cream and honey drizzled on the top. :eat1:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

snuggletiger said:


> No but I had a cream puff with rum flavored cream and honey drizzled on the top. :eat1:



That sounds interesting........:eat2:


----------



## olwen

Fascinita said:


>



LOL, How positively creepy. I've actually watched that guy's show/infomercial, and to that I say - Yes, Yes We Can!


----------



## olwen

goofy girl said:


> Have you ever heard of eating cheese drizzled with honey?? I heard it on the Today show and it sounds strange...



This is actually really good with a soft cheese or a pastry cheese. I had some chocolate covered cream puffs yesterday - italian style. Oh man they were soooooo good. :eat1::eat2:


----------



## snuggletiger

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> That sounds interesting........:eat2:



But I am sure I would be more interesting then that with a few bourbons under my belt


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

snuggletiger said:


> But I am sure I would be more interesting then that with a few bourbons under my belt



I'm quite interesting myself with a few rums under mine.....


----------



## snuggletiger

ohhh la la me with bourbon, you with rum, who knows what madcap adventures could ensue.


----------



## CAMellie

I LIKE CHEESE, DAMMIT!


----------



## goofy girl

does anyone have any dental floss??


----------



## Santaclear

Let's get back on topic, people, please! 

Here is a selection of cheeses for today we can begin with: 

View attachment cheese.jpg


----------



## goofy girl

mossystate said:


> +++++++++++++



OH..you're little eye crust guy didn't show up in the quote 

Wiki knows EVERYTHING!!

Rheum
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Eye crust)
Jump to: navigation, search
For the rhubarb plant, see Rheum (genus).

Rheum is a medical term for the natural watery discharge from the eyes, commonly known as "eye potatoes", "sleep sugar," "eye cheese", "eye crusties", or "eye boogers"(or some derivative thereof), which forms a crust on the eyelids during sleep (contrast to Mucopurulent discharge). It is formed by a combination of mucus (consisting of mucin discharged from the cornea or conjunctiva), tears, leaked blood cells, dead skin cells from the eyelids, and dust.

Normally, blinking causes this substance to be washed away with tears. The absence of this function during sleep, however, results in a small amount of dry rheum forming in the corners of the eyes even among healthy individuals, especially children. Still, the formation of a large amount of crust or the presence of pus within it may indicate dry eye or other more serious eye infections including conjunctivitis and corneitis.

Adults and older children can easily remove the crust by washing the eye with water or simply brushing them away with clean fingers. In young children, however, the buildup of rheum can be so severe, that opening one's eye upon awakening can be difficult or impossible without washing the eye. Very young children or people under care may need to have this done by another individual.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

snuggletiger said:


> ohhh la la me with bourbon, you with rum, who knows what madcap adventures could ensue.



That all depends....do you like fat girls? :batting:


----------



## snuggletiger

I have a penchant for assertive BBWs yes


----------



## Paquito

This is my idea of a good cheese dish




How YOU doin?!?!


----------



## Santaclear

This grilled cheese sandwich, now more than 10 years old, supposedly has the image of the Virgin Mary in it. An online casino also supposedly paid $28,000 for it. 

View attachment ap_CHEESE_mary_041129_ssh.jpg


----------



## snuggletiger

The lady holding up the sandwich looks like she could turn anything into mold with that awful lipstick.


----------



## goofy girl

snuggletiger said:


> The lady holding up the sandwich looks like she could turn anything into mold with that awful lipstick.



I was thinking that it looked like she had been eating the moldy sandwich LOL


----------



## goofy girl

......................................................


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

snuggletiger said:


> I have a penchant for assertive BBWs yes




The demanding bitch in me would have a man be more aggressive and defining in his answer


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

free2beme04 said:


> This is my idea of a good cheese dish
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How YOU doin?!?!



Hey, do YOU like fat girls? and do you have more of that? :batting:


----------



## Paquito

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Hey, do YOU like fat girls? and do you have more of that? :batting:



 Yes and Yes

¿Cómo ESTÁS?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

*swoons and falls on his...... cheesecake.....


----------



## Fascinita

Santaclear said:


> This grilled cheese sandwich, now more than 10 years old, supposedly has the image of the Virgin Mary in it. An online casino also supposedly paid $28,000 for it.



Well, I only see Greta Garbo in it. :blink: Or is that Marlene Dietrich? Hard to say...


----------



## daddyoh70

Fascinita said:


> Well, I only see Greta Garbo in it. :blink: Or is that Marlene Dietrich? Hard to say...



Marlene Dietrich, definitely Marlene Dietrich...


----------



## Fascinita

daddyoh70 said:


> Marlene Dietrich, definitely Marlene Dietrich...




Too bad. If it were Greta, it could be a "grilled Swede" sandwich.


----------



## mossystate

Fascinita said:


> Too bad. If it were Greta, it could be a "grilled Swede" sandwich.





groan....after that joke...I vant to be alone.....and..hello thread!...been a while...how are you.....you seem to have put on a few pounds...you are simply...glowing


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

I see you came running as soon as the "cheesecake" talk started Monique.....


----------



## Fascinita

mossystate said:


> groan....after that joke...I vant to be alone.....



 It was either my Swede joke or something about Marlene Dietrich and a priest and a rabbi walking into a bar. I'm sure you see .....



> and..hello thread!...been a while...how are you.....you seem to have put on a few pounds...you are simply...glowing



We've been feeding it!



> I see you came running as soon as the "cheesecake" talk started Monique.....



Green, she sure did, didn't she? For a woman with an onion between her soles, she sure ran quick for that cheesecake.


----------



## mossystate

Fascinita said:


> It was either my Swede joke or something about Marlene Dietrich and a priest and a rabbi walking into a bar. I'm sure you see .....
> 
> 
> 
> We've been feeding it!
> 
> 
> 
> Green, she sure did, didn't she? For a woman with an onion between her soles, she sure ran quick for that cheesecake.




Ooooo...I best be not saying what I want to say to one part of this...


and....I am perhaps one of the few fat women who does not cream her hoonders over the mere mention of cheesecake...I suppose I have to give back my fat suit and forget the secret handshake....

....a silly fairy and an eraserhead should not be throwing stones at a woman who just wants to bring the joy of produce to the denizens of Dimensions


haters



jealous


----------



## CAMellie

I present unto you.....


SALAMI!!!


View attachment 44931


----------



## vardon_grip

mossystate said:


> and....I am perhaps one of the few fat women who do not cream their *hoonders* over the mere mention of cheesecake...I suppose I have to give back my fat suit and forget the secret handshake....




Hoonders from Scootland 

View attachment 2007hondas.jpg


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

mossystate said:


> and....I am perhaps one of the few fat women who do not cream their hoonders over the mere mention of cheesecake...I suppose I have to give back my fat suit and forget the secret handshake....
> 
> ....a silly fairy and an eraserhead should not be throwing stones at *a woman who just wants to bring the joy of produce to the denizens of Dimensions*
> 
> 
> haters




So does all that mean you just happen to be one of those women that truly know the value of cucumbers?

http://gdl.msu.edu/~vanhoose/humor/0563.html



> 124 Reasons Why Cucumbers Are Better Than Men
> 
> The Average cucumber is at least six inches long
> 
> Cucumbers stay hard for a week
> 
> A Cucumber won't tell you that size doesn't count
> 
> Cucumbers don't get too excited
> 
> A Cucumber never suffers from performance anxiety
> 
> Cucumbers are easy to pick up
> 
> You can fondle Cucumbers in the supermarket... and you know how firm it is before you take one home
> 
> Cucumbers can get away any weekend
> 
> With a Cucumber you can get a single room......and you won't have to check in as Mrs Cucumber
> 
> A Cucumber will always respect you in the morning
> 
> You can go to a movie with a Cucumber and see the movie
> 
> At a Drive-In you can stay in the front seat
> 
> A Cucumber can always wait until you get home


----------



## Fascinita

mossystate said:


> hoonders



lololol I have never heard this before, but man, do I like it. It's officially my new word for underwear. 

Where's it from?

GEF: Besides cucumbers, there are the joys of green plantains... Still in the produce family, is all I'm sayin'


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

But...but....there is more......

A Cucumber won't ask "Am I the first"

Cucumbers don't care if your a virgin

Cucumbers won't tell anyone your not a virgin anymore

With Cucumbers you don't have to be a virgin more than once Cucumbers don't have sex hang-ups

Cucumbers won't make you wear kinky clothes or go to bed with boots on

Cucumbers aren't into rope and leather, talking dirty or swinging with fruits and nuts

You can have as many Cucumbers as you can handle

You only eat Cucumber when you feel like it

Cucumbers never need a round of applause

Cucumbers won't ask: Am I the best How was it Did you cum, how many times

Cucumbers aren't jealous... of your gynecologist, ski instructor, or hair dresser

A Cucumber won't want to join your support group

Cucumbers aren't into meaningful discussions

Cucumbers won't ask about your last lover..or speculate about the next one

A Cucumber will never make a scene because there are other Cucumbers in the refrigerator

A Cucumber won't mind hiding in the refrigerator when your mother comes over

No matter how old you are, you can always get a fresh Cucumber

Cucumbers can handle rejection


----------



## mossystate

Greenie...please do not ask me to post pictures of me and my slender green friend.....we broke up............................ok, I chopped him up and doused him with lemon and red pepper flakes...spilled his seeds, I did....

..you do NOT break up with the Monique!!!!!!!!!!!



Fasc...my sister calls them that, with my niece...hehe...I like it......hoonders...( just noticed the curve on that plantain...owwie!!!! )

someone rep mr. grip...I am fresh out for him ( well, I am forever forgetting to rep people, so my rep is stale ).....* erases comment...damn the editing I have to do to myself...I need to roam free !!!! *


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

As long as your kumquat isn't stale, too.....


----------



## mossystate

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> As long as your *c*umquat isn't stale, too.....





fixed that for you..this is the internet.............god, I hate when people spell come that way.....lol


I am avoiding answering whether or not my quat is stale. I do not want to scare off any prospective.................................cukes.


----------



## olwen

Just one more page. I'm so excited.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ID_N7rv-iN8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lewuaYoxfII&amp;feature=related

It cannot be said that this guy is CHEESY or anything.......


----------



## mossystate

bfn bjldsfblkjdfnbkadfnbk adnfklbdfln d'jlj'lsjbxdc dsf bhds[pf[ vs dfobn[psdf bhsb dsfnb[ s s[ou bg bnlo[-oxuo sjo[dsfbg s b dfjob[sd fbsodf[b sjfbpos[d d bhkicpd b ds[[ouf h hhsxckpv szx zs[doug s dgispdpgs[ gs[ioioi vx [cj jx[ cbvjoxlcb[x cbjuosf[pd bs bjsdoc[b djobudfobjdsf b dx jpiyivyxocoocvxiccccccvx bvd bdofb[d fbdfb dfb dfbdpou uuopus d[[oiu s djbvos[d bsufob[pd fbusodf bdsvbf oiofghj djbidfob bdndcfpbdlfbm pdf hnpdhfdhhbm dxbijdfpb df mbdopd ndfhb d dkfbgdf[p hibbjodcfv dfob[pdfpgijdfg dfpobydyfrpdooc bhpdxfbd fghs bndofb[d bdjfobppoudfb dj iopb dfhbd[f bdnfbpoiybbx[cbxocvxfjgbd b kjdd[ hoippvxcbx @!



did that do it?


----------



## mossystate

crap...............* deep breath *


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBGIQ7ZuuiU&amp;feature=related


----------



## mossystate

falalalalalalalal








a


















lalalalalalaaaaaaaaaaaa







pfffft




.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onrzgB_-0sM&amp;feature=related


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Shut it Monique..........


----------



## mossystate

and then greenie said....







...how did my nightie get on the scarcrow I have in my front yard...


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYTD6hQh6xs&amp;feature=related


----------



## mossystate

I CANNOT SHUT IT





I WONT SHUT IT




WILL TAKE AN ACT OF CONGRESS...ok..or a mod....TO MAKE ME STOP


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

mossystate said:


> and then greenie said....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...how did my nightie get on the scarcrow I have in my front yard...



Silly girl...we all know that scarecrows come with long poles.....:batting:


----------



## mossystate

sheeeeeh

how many frickin posts can be on one page








???????


----------



## mossystate

Greenie has rod on the brain.







:bow:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Iy2Jw4DVk


----------



## mossystate

wait


what was this thread about?


I lost my train of thought.





* she shoots...she scores...and her slight issue with OCD feels..well....rather...content....


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DiuykCu4Xw&amp;feature=related


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

GDI MONIQUE!!!


*I* wanted to be the 50 page turner you gd spammer......


----------



## Fascinita

Congratulations, produce people! Fifty pages of the green stuff and counting! (Oh, and a few starter pages of a minor feud.)

Do we have enough greens for a salad now?


----------



## mossystate

I am pumping away at my Salad Shooter.


----------



## CAMellie

View attachment 44940



Mmmmmmm...I like SALAD!


----------



## Wagimawr

mossystate said:


> I am pumping away at my Salad Shooter.


----------



## CleverBomb

Wagimawr said:


>


Once again, proving Rule 34a.
If it's on the Internet, Randall Munroe has already made a relevant cartoon.

-Rusty


----------



## Santaclear

I really feel we've finally turned a corner with this thread, and that the sort of stuff we're posting now is what Carl intended when he started it.

All the arguing earlier in the thread, all the yelling, the hand wringing, the cries of frustration, the talking-at-brick-walls, the monotonous repetition.....all of that has faded away, a mere prelude to the symphony of eerie calm that now pervades here.

Carl was the mastermind, we his obedient pawns. Great work, everyone. I now pronounce this Dimensions' Most Beloved Thread.


----------



## Wagimawr

Wagimawr said:


>


spamtiem is naow


----------



## olwen

Santaclear said:


> I really feel we've finally turned a corner with this thread, and that the sort of stuff we're posting now is what Carl intended when he started it.
> 
> All the arguing earlier in the thread, all the yelling, the hand wringing, the cries of frustration, the talking-at-brick-walls, the monotonous repetition.....all of that has faded away, a mere prelude to the symphony of eerie calm that now pervades here.
> 
> Carl was the mastermind, we his obedient pawns. Great work, everyone. I now pronounce this Dimensions' Most Beloved Thread.



LOL I second that.

50 pages - alright. Now I can die with a satisfying feeling of accomplishment and a possible newfound love of cheese.


----------



## CAMellie

olwen said:


> LOL I second that.
> 
> 50 pages - alright. Now I can die with a satisfying feeling of accomplishment and a possible newfound love of cheese.



...and salami and salad? PLEASE say and salami and salad, ok? *looks at you pleadingly*


----------



## olwen

And salami, and salad.


----------



## vardon_grip

mossystate said:


> someone rep mr. grip...I am fresh out for him ( well, I am forever forgetting to rep people, so my rep is stale )



Waiting patiently.........................


----------



## CAMellie

olwen said:


> And salami, and salad.


Yay! As you may have noticed, I am easily pleased. :blush:


----------



## olwen

CAMellie said:


> Yay! As you may have noticed, I am easily pleased. :blush:



thank goodness for your man.


----------



## William

Hi 

All you have proved is that a majority can disrupt a thread and take it over, nothing more. This apathetic approach does not benefit anyone and hurts the sub-group 

William 




Santaclear said:


> I really feel we've finally turned a corner with this thread, and that the sort of stuff we're posting now is what Carl intended when he started it.
> 
> All the arguing earlier in the thread, all the yelling, the hand wringing, the cries of frustration, the talking-at-brick-walls, the monotonous repetition.....all of that has faded away, a mere prelude to the symphony of eerie calm that now pervades here.
> 
> Carl was the mastermind, we his obedient pawns. Great work, everyone. I now pronounce this Dimensions' Most Beloved Thread.


----------



## goofy girl

*I LIKE CHEESE*


----------



## CAMellie

olwen said:


> thank goodness for your man.



Oh SNAP! I love you! :wubu:


----------



## CAMellie

goofy girl said:


> *I LIKE CHEESE*




Let the cheese orgy begin!!
*claps hands*


----------



## Carl1h

William said:


> Hi
> 
> All you have proved is that a majority can disrupt a thread and take it over, nothing more. This apathetic approach does not benefit anyone and hurts the sub-group
> 
> William



I disagree. There was no communication going on for a long while in this thread. Would you say that you felt that the point you were trying to make was getting though to the people responding to your posts? I think that if you felt like you were being understood you would not have felt like you needed to repeat yourself so much, true? I don't think we can say there was communication of ideas at that point, more like knee jerk responses. Break the cycle of knee jerk responses with fluff and maybe you can have a chance for useful dialog later on, rather than having two sides so entrenched in their arguments and focussed on personalities that there is no hope of any real exchange of ideas.


----------



## CAMellie

Carl1h said:


> I disagree. There was no communication going on for a long while in this thread. Would you say that you felt that the point you were trying to make was getting though to the people responding to your posts? I think that if you felt like you were being understood you would not have felt like you needed to repeat yourself so much, true? I don't think we can say there was communication of ideas at that point, more like knee jerk responses. Break the cycle of knee jerk responses with fluff and maybe you can have a chance for useful dialog later on, rather than having two sides so entrenched in their arguments and focussed on personalities that there is no hope of any real exchange of ideas.



Very well said...and repped. Thank you.


----------



## William

Hi Carl

I count the ambush tactics as the disruption and the change to silly topics as the takeover.

The Hot Boy Thread may not be bad (talking about the early posts) but it represents the societal rejection that both Fat Men and Women have to live with and no matter what Fat Acceptance says about the matter Fat Men also have to deal with this problem.



William







Carl1h said:


> I disagree. There was no communication going on for a long while in this thread. Would you say that you felt that the point you were trying to make was getting though to the people responding to your posts? I think that if you felt like you were being understood you would not have felt like you needed to repeat yourself so much, true? I don't think we can say there was communication of ideas at that point, more like knee jerk responses. Break the cycle of knee jerk responses with fluff and maybe you can have a chance for useful dialog later on, rather than having two sides so entrenched in their arguments and focussed on personalities that there is no hope of any real exchange of ideas.


----------



## Tooz

Here we go again!


----------



## CAMellie

*puts on her cammos and prepares to take over the world...or this thread...whichever*


----------



## goofy girl

I LIKE CHEESE


----------



## William

Hi Carl

I feel that one reason that there was no communication because every time the experiences of Fat Men comes up a comparison to the experiences of Fat Women automatically has to be injected into the conversation which ends up over riding any talk about the experiences of Fat Men.

I read experiences about Fat Women from Fat Acceptance sources all the time and there is no need to mention Fat Men. Why is it different in the case of Fat Men? 

When the experiences of Fat Men can be told as more than a footnote or citation for Fat Women experiences, we will not even need these conversations.

William

Gotta go out





Carl1h said:


> I disagree. There was no communication going on for a long while in this thread. Would you say that you felt that the point you were trying to make was getting though to the people responding to your posts? I think that if you felt like you were being understood you would not have felt like you needed to repeat yourself so much, true? I don't think we can say there was communication of ideas at that point, more like knee jerk responses. Break the cycle of knee jerk responses with fluff and maybe you can have a chance for useful dialog later on, rather than having two sides so entrenched in their arguments and focussed on personalities that there is no hope of any real exchange of ideas.


----------



## CAMellie

*tap dances around in a cheese costume while offering salami on a platter*


----------



## William

It is a vicious circle




Tooz said:


> Here we go again!


----------



## CAMellie

William said:


> It is a vicious circle




*rips hair out...then rocks quietly in a corner*


----------



## William

Thanks for proving my point.

William



CAMellie said:


> *tap dances around in a cheese costume while offering salami on a platter*


----------



## CAMellie

William said:


> Thanks for proving my point.
> 
> William




BELIEVE ME....it was all MY pleasure!!!


----------



## Sweet Tooth

Gah, as if threads about fat women never get hijacked.

Please, mods... save my sanity and close this train wreck! Damn me for being a looky loo! LOL


----------



## CAMellie

Sweet Tooth said:


> Gah, as if threads about fat women never get hijacked.
> 
> Please, mods... save my sanity and close this train wreck! Damn me for being a looky loo! LOL



Yes...mods...please. Wait! Right after we serve the cheese!


----------



## olwen

William said:


> Hi
> 
> All you have proved is that a majority can disrupt a thread and take it over, nothing more. This apathetic approach does not benefit anyone and hurts the sub-group
> 
> William



Oh, for heavens sake. So I'm guessing humor is not something you are comfortable with.


----------



## William

It is when I hear something funny. 

Go ahead and take over the thread again, it solves nothing.

William



olwen said:


> Oh, for heavens sake. So I'm guessing humor is not something you are comfortable with.


----------



## William

Two wrongs do not make a right



Sweet Tooth said:


> Gah, as if threads about fat women never get hijacked.
> 
> Please, mods... save my sanity and close this train wreck! Damn me for being a looky loo! LOL


----------



## CAMellie

It may not "solve" anything...but it does serve a purpose. Step back...gain some perspective. Realize that things were going nowhere fast before.

Care for some cheese or salami?


----------



## Tooz

William said:


> It is a vicious circle



Please do not take this as an attack, but it is because you chose to unearth it again. It is a vicious circle because _you_ choose to make it so and _you_ choose to take away what you do from this thread and the Hot Boy Thread.

No amount of your arguing is going to change anything, take that for what you will. On many subjects here, things may fall on deaf ears. People believe what they will. Just let it die.


This thread needs locking, badly.


----------



## olwen

William said:


> Hi Carl
> 
> I feel that one reason that there was no communication because every time the experiences of Fat Men comes up a comparison to the experiences of Fat Women automatically has to be injected into the conversation which ends up over riding any talk about the experiences of Fat Men.
> 
> I read experiences about Fat Women from Fat Acceptance sources all the time and there is no need to mention Fat Men. Why is it different in the case of Fat Men?
> 
> When the experiences of Fat Men can be told as more than a footnote or citation for Fat Women experiences, we will not even need these conversations.
> 
> William
> 
> Gotta go out



Oh, no no no no no no no no. We are not gonna go thru this again with you man. You wanted to know "why" and we offered up reasons why. You just don't like the reasons. And because of your whacked out circular thinking you've just simply ignored them. You really don't want to hear anything constructive. You don't. You don't want to offer up any solutions either. You just want to complain. 

I honestly think the only way you would be satisfied is if all the women just stopped talking. Hell maybe you'd like it if we stopped existing. That way your experiences would be the only one's that mattered - OH WAIT - history is full of examples where only men's experiences mattered. Silly me for wanting to have a movement where my experiences as a woman could be heard. Silly me for being one of those women who actually talk about what we go thru instead of waiting for someone else to speak for me. Dude, seriously start your own "fat man's freedom now" kinda thing and make it your own little boys club where you can all whine about how nobody listens to you or your problems.


From now on when I go to the BHM board and read about the experiences that the BHMs have that are VERY similar to my own I won't chime in and say how much I get where you're all coming from. Instead I'll go in there and whine and talk about how my experiences as a fat woman are being trumped by the men - oh poor me, oh boo fucking hoo. How could you? How dare you? Oh woe is me. Why God, why? *notice the sarcasm?*

God dammit all to hell. We were having so much fun with all the talk of cheese and pickles and salami and salad and now this fekapta bullshit. I'm off to have a salami and cheese rice bread sandwich with plenty of pickles and olives and salad - oh and mustard. Let's not forget the mustard. 

William, I'm sorry to be so snarky here, but in this matter you are your own worse enemy. I really think it would be in your best interest and perhaps in the interests of bhm's everywhere if you stopped complaining about this problem and started coming up with solutions. Really think about what you and your fellow bhms could do to solve this problem. Since this is not my issue or any other bbws issue you can't expect us to solve this problem for you.


----------



## olwen

Tooz said:


> Please do not take this as an attack, but it is because you chose to unearth it again. It is a vicious circle because _you_ choose to make it so and _you_ choose to take away what you do from this thread and the Hot Boy Thread.
> 
> No amount of your arguing is going to change anything, take that for what you will. On many subjects here, things may fall on deaf ears. People believe what they will. Just let it die.
> 
> 
> This thread needs locking, badly.



I need an "are you sure you really want to post that comment?" button that pops up like four or five times, then asks for the last four digits of your social security number, your mother's maiden name, and the name of your first pet, before it actually lets you post.

...it's the only way.


----------



## Fascinita

*FAT GIRLS RULE!!!!!!!!*

If you feel me on that, say it with me, everyone! 

Say it!


----------



## William

I never said anything about Fat Women sharing their experiences, I have from the start been saying that every conversation about Fat Men does not need a commentary about the Fat Women as a required amendment. When Fat Men experiences can be discussed as the primary topic like most discussions of Fat Women are in Fat Acceptance, Fat Men will be more than just caricatures in Fat Acceptance.

Olwen 

There is only one person in this conversation that has been ordering people around from the start, I make sure that I do not do that. Also I have not brought in any other issues like non-Fat Acceptance Womens issues to cloud the conversation. You try to put all of the problems on me, but these issues have been around as far back as the early years of NAAFA.

So go back to talking about cheese, that is a safe topic talk and you do not have to deal with other points of view.

William






olwen said:


> Oh, no no no no no no no no. We are not gonna go thru this again with you man. You wanted to know "why" and we offered up reasons why. You just don't like the reasons. And because of your whacked out circular thinking you've just simply ignored them. You really don't want to hear anything constructive. You don't. You don't want to offer up any solutions either. You just want to complain.
> 
> Blocking Fat Male Experiences is not going to change all the discussions that Women have been left out of in history, that is not even in the Mission Statement of Fat Acceptance. In fact the original fat Acceptance Principles were very gender inclusive, then it went down from there.
> 
> William
> 
> I honestly think the only way you would be satisfied is if all the women just stopped talking. Hell maybe you'd like it if we stopped existing. That way your experiences would be the only one's that mattered - OH WAIT - history is full of examples where only men's experiences mattered. Silly me for wanting to have a movement where my experiences as a woman could be heard. Silly me for being one of those women who actually talk about what we go thru instead of waiting for someone else to speak for me. Dude, seriously start your own "fat man's freedom now" kinda thing and make it your own little boys club where you can all whine about how nobody listens to you or your problems.
> 
> 
> From now on when I go to the BHM board and read about the experiences that the BHMs have that are VERY similar to my own I won't chime in and say how much I get where you're all coming from. Instead I'll go in there and whine and talk about how my experiences as a fat woman are being trumped by the men - oh poor me, oh boo fucking hoo. How could you? How dare you? Oh woe is me. Why God, why? *notice the sarcasm?*
> 
> God dammit all to hell. We were having so much fun with all the talk of cheese and pickles and salami and salad and now this fekapta bullshit. I'm off to have a salami and cheese rice bread sandwich with plenty of pickles and olives and salad - oh and mustard. Let's not forget the mustard.
> 
> William, I'm sorry to be so snarky here, but in this matter you are your own worse enemy. I really think it would be in your best interest and perhaps in the interests of bhm's everywhere if you stopped complaining about this problem and started coming up with solutions. Really think about what you and your fellow bhms could do to solve this problem. Since this is not my issue or any other bbws issue you can't expect us to solve this problem for you.


----------



## olwen

William said:


> I never said anything about Fat Women sharing their experiences, I have from the start been saying that every conversation about Fat Men does not need a commentary about the Fat Women as a required amendment. When Fat Men experiences can be discussed as the primary topic like most discussions of Fat Women are in Fat Acceptance, Fat Men will be more than just caricatures in Fat Acceptance.





olwen said:


> Oh, no no no no no no no no. We are not gonna go thru this again with you man. You wanted to know "why" and we offered up reasons why. You just don't like the reasons. And because of your whacked out circular thinking you've just simply ignored them. You really don't want to hear anything constructive. You don't. You don't want to offer up any solutions either. You just want to complain.
> 
> I honestly think the only way you would be satisfied is if all the women just stopped talking. Hell maybe you'd like it if we stopped existing. That way your experiences would be the only one's that mattered - OH WAIT - history is full of examples where only men's experiences mattered. Silly me for wanting to have a movement where my experiences as a woman could be heard. Silly me for being one of those women who actually talk about what we go thru instead of waiting for someone else to speak for me. Dude, seriously start your own "fat man's freedom now" kinda thing and make it your own little boys club where you can all whine about how nobody listens to you or your problems.
> 
> 
> From now on when I go to the BHM board and read about the experiences that the BHMs have that are VERY similar to my own I won't chime in and say how much I get where you're all coming from. Instead I'll go in there and whine and talk about how my experiences as a fat woman are being trumped by the men - oh poor me, oh boo fucking hoo. How could you? How dare you? Oh woe is me. Why God, why? *notice the sarcasm?*
> 
> God dammit all to hell. We were having so much fun with all the talk of cheese and pickles and salami and salad and now this fekapta bullshit. I'm off to have a salami and cheese rice bread sandwich with plenty of pickles and olives and salad - oh and mustard. Let's not forget the mustard.
> 
> William, I'm sorry to be so snarky here, but in this matter you are your own worse enemy. I really think it would be in your best interest and perhaps in the interests of bhm's everywhere if you stopped complaining about this problem and started coming up with solutions. Really think about what you and your fellow bhms could do to solve this problem. Since this is not my issue or any other bbws issue you can't expect us to solve this problem for you.



Wash, rinse, repeat.


----------



## sweet&fat

olwen said:


> We were having so much fun with all the talk of cheese and pickles and salami and salad and now this fekapta bullshit.



Sorry, O, it's the professor in me! Plus I welcome any chance to derail the seemingly endless wave of self-pity:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=verkakte


----------



## CAMellie

*sits in a recliner and eats cheese and salami*


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Hi William

Since you are needing your daily attention fix again I will respond. I don't really give a shit about you or your experiences. However, I like Carl now. 

Have a wonderful day 


Green Eyed Fairy





William said:


> I never said anything about Fat Women sharing their experiences, I have from the start been saying that every conversation about Fat Men does not need a commentary about the Fat Women as a required amendment. When Fat Men experiences can be discussed as the primary topic like most discussions of Fat Women are in Fat Acceptance, Fat Men will be more than just caricatures in Fat Acceptance.


----------



## CAMellie

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Hi William
> 
> Since you are needing your daily attention fix again I will respond. I don't really give a shit about you or your experiences. However, I like Carl now.
> 
> Have a wonderful day
> 
> 
> Green Eyed Fairy



AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....that is all.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Hi Fascinita


Apparently we did need some whine with all the cheese. I would prefer to talk about my own experiences only from here on out and have people all pat me on the back with sympathy. No need for logical, considerate discourse. 

Green Eyed Fairy




Fascinita said:


> *FAT GIRLS RULE!!!!!!!!*
> 
> If you feel me on that, say it with me, everyone!
> 
> Say it!


----------



## William

Hi GEF

You need to investigate where these emotions come from and then you will be able to deal with things better.

I am serious 

William 




Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Hi Fascinita
> 
> 
> Apparently we did need some whine with all the cheese. I would prefer to talk about my own experiences only from here on out and have people all pat me on the back with sympathy. No need for logical, considerate discourse.
> 
> Green Eyed Fairy


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

William said:


> Hi GEF
> 
> You need to investigate where these emotions come from and then you will be able to deal with things better.
> 
> I am serious
> 
> William



Hi William

Since you have provided most of the whine, it's only fair you have a cheese platter to take home


I am serious

Green Eyed Fairy


----------



## olwen

sweet&fat said:


> Sorry, O, it's the professor in me! Plus I welcome any chance to derail the seemingly endless wave of self-pity:
> 
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=verkakte



Thanks s&f. I wasn't sure how to spell it.


----------



## William

Hi GEF

You have invested too much negative emotions into this for to be anything less than serious for you. Also once again you have disrupted the conversation as I knew you would. 

I have to really go and if anyone wants to have a real conversation later, I am willing

William (night)




Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Hi William
> 
> Since you have provided most of the whine, it's only fair you have a cheese platter to take home
> 
> 
> I am serious
> 
> Green Eyed Fairy


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

HI William

The only motion I have vested in this dialogue between us is high amusement followed by intense chortling. 

Thank you for making my day complete with raucous laughter

I am serious  

Well, at least I am trying to be amidst all the laughter  

Green Eyed Fairy



William said:


> Hi GEF
> 
> You have invested too much negative emotions into this for to be anything less than serious for you.
> 
> William


----------



## olwen

Hi William,

OMG, it just hit me dude, you think that all the talk of delicious food items was done to further prevent you from talking about what men in the SA movement go thru. Like it's all part of some conspiracy masterminded by some evil fat Dominatrix brandishing a whip and laughing meniacally as she cuts fat men's tongues to shreds - or makes them lick her boots shiny.

Dude. Seriously? Seriously. There is no conspiracy. But, if I could be that evil Dominatrix, I promise you, you'd have more important things to worry about than that. 

Olwen


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Hi Olwen,

If I was an evil dominatrix, I would beat men with cheese wheels.

I am serious


Green Eyed Fairy


----------



## CAMellie

olwen said:


> Hi William,
> 
> OMG, it just hit me dude, you think that all the talk of delicious food items was done to further prevent you from talking about what men in the SA movement go thru. Like it's all part of some conspiracy masterminded by some evil fat Dominatrix brandishing a whip and laughing meniacally as she cuts fat men's tongues to shreds - or makes them lick her boots shiny.
> 
> Dude. Seriously? Seriously. There is no conspiracy. But, if I could be that evil Dominatrix, I promise you, you'd have more important things to worry about than that.
> 
> Olwen




Just call me Mistress Mellie *cracks whip and laughs maniacally*


----------



## CAMellie

Hi GEF,

I am NOT a man, but I would like you to beat me with a cheese wheel.

I am serious.

CAMellie


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Hi Camellie,


How come women always have to ask for their own cheese wheel beatings when it's the men that really need one. 

I am serious.

Green Eyed Fairy


----------



## Sweet Tooth

Seriously now.... 

View attachment seehere_blogspot_com%20cats%20%2862%29.jpg


----------



## CAMellie

Hi GEF,

Why is it that we have to ask these things and men can't think of them themselves.

I am serious.

CAMellie


----------



## stan_der_man

Wow! Fifty-two pages and counting...


I'm bursting to post those "Elvis has left the building" images... Elvis is going to head back to Vegas if this keeps up.




















































































































Thankyouverymuch...


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Hi Sweet Tooth,

I want to rep you for taking the time to point out the austerity of this thread but I am out of rep again. I blame all the fat women on the board for this. This thread proves that seriousness is no laughing matter.

Green Eyed Fairy


----------



## olwen

ROTFL! Ha ha ha ha, GEF, Mellie, I can't stop laughing. A beating with a cheese wheel. I think the only way that would be really really evil, is if it was a wheel of mouldy limburger. 

...eeewwwwww.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Hi Camellie, 


*sigh*
This only proves my point that everything said and done by women should be done for others. We have no right to speak for ourselves. We have no real problems when compared to others. We get too much attention for others to deal with. 
Now please shut it and let the menfolk only speak now- preferably just the fat ones. 

Green Eyed Fairy








CAMellie said:


> Hi GEF,
> 
> Why is it that we have to ask these things and men can't think of them themselves.
> 
> I am serious.
> 
> CAMellie


----------



## CAMellie

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Hi Camellie,
> 
> 
> *sigh*
> This only proves my point that everything said and done by women should be done for others. We have no right to speak for ourselves. We have no real problems when compared to others. We get too much attention for others to deal with.
> Now please shut it and let the menfolk only speak now- preferably just the fat ones.
> 
> Green Eyed Fairy



Hi GEF,

You are absolutely correct...in a manly sort of way. I'll just go have a baby, plant a garden, and sew something.


I am serious.

CAMellie


----------



## olwen

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Hi Camellie,
> 
> 
> *sigh*
> This only proves my point that everything said and done by women should be done for others. We have no right to speak for ourselves. We have no real problems when compared to others. We get too much attention for others to deal with.
> Now please shut it and let the menfolk only speak now- preferably just the fat ones.
> 
> Green Eyed Fairy



I'll only do this if it means I get to wear a collar and a muzzle - oh, um, did I say that out loud? :blush:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Hi Olwen,


Only the cheese wheel gets to wear the collar. But only if it's a fat cheese wheel.

Green Eyed Fairy


----------



## CAMellie

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Hi Olwen,
> 
> 
> Only the cheese wheel gets to wear the collar. But only if it's a fat cheese wheel.
> 
> Green Eyed Fairy



A Fat Male cheese wheel, don'tcha know?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Hi Camellie,


Why do you fat women always have to speak up about their own cheese wheels whenever I mention a fat cheese wheel?

I am serious

I have to go now

Green Eyed Fairy


----------



## CAMellie

I think I wet myself.


BRING ON THE CHEESE!


----------



## stan_der_man

Seriously... As a male, it would be entirely OK with me if one of the gals posted my "Elvis has left the building" images. I wouldn't be offended.


----------



## olwen

CAMellie said:


> I think I wet myself.
> 
> 
> BRING ON THE CHEESE!



BRING ON THE CHEESE - BEATING!


----------



## stan_der_man

If this ain't cheese enough, I don't know what is...

























































































thankyouverymuch


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

fa_man_stan said:


> Seriously... As a male, it would be entirely OK with me if one of the gals posted my "Elvis has left the building" images. I wouldn't be offended.



How come you men always want to bring up Elvis whenever us fat women mention cheese?






I hope it's okay since he's a BHM....


----------



## olwen

LOL Jailhouse cheese. 

Oh man, this is way too much funny for one day.


----------



## Famouslastwords

Since we have so much cheese going on in here.... 

View attachment burrito.jpg


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy




----------



## William

Hi 

I am backing down because there is no chance of having a conversation and no chance of not having my statements warped into something else.

So be happy, you have won, the "worse trolls of Fat Acceptance" would be proud of your tactics and you unwillingness to converse.

Maybe another day

William





Sweet Tooth said:


> Seriously now....


----------



## Sweet Tooth

WTF? Why am I always the one getting quoted? LOL


----------



## CAMellie

Sweet Tooth said:


> WTF? Why am I always the one getting quoted? LOL



Cause you're just so damned quotable! Here...have some cheese! :kiss2:


----------



## Sweet Tooth

CAMellie said:


> Cause you're just so damned quotable! Here...have some cheese! :kiss2:



Only if I can eat it off of your BHM. [There, I made BHM issues back at the forefront of this discussion. HA!]


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Sweet Tooth said:


> WTF? Why am I always the one getting quoted? LOL




I think it could be because he's scared of the rest of us


----------



## CAMellie

Sweet Tooth said:


> Only if I can eat it off of your BHM. [There, I made BHM issues back at the forefront of this discussion. HA!]



Hi Sweet Tooth,

Please find a BHM of your own.

I am serious.

CAMellie


----------



## Famouslastwords

Sweet Tooth said:


> Only if I can eat it off of your BHM. [There, I made BHM issues back at the forefront of this discussion. HA!]



Your picture didn't come up for me.


In other news, LMFAO


----------



## daddyoh70

WOW!!! I must say that I am very pleased at what I'm seeing right now. I was gone for the day on Sunday (sorry I didn't post one of those "I'm going to be away for the day" threads  ) but 8 pages since Saturday morning!!!! I am more than impressed. I seriously thought this thread was going to die a slow death before hitting the big Five-O. Seems as though Mossy breathed some new life into it. Gosh, so much has happened I can't even begin to comment on everyone's comments. 
Anyway, Yes Fat Girls do Rule!!!
If anyone wants to tie me to a giant cheese wheel and throw slices of salami at me, I'm more than willing.
And to quote Stan....























































Thankyouverymuch.


----------



## RedVelvet

William said:


> Hi GEF
> 
> You have invested too much negative emotions into this for to be anything less than serious for you. Also once again you have disrupted the conversation as I knew you would.
> 
> I have to really go and if anyone wants to have a real conversation later, I am willing
> 
> William (night)





Hi William


You do not control the thread. 

It may meander as it pleases. 

You, of course, can continue establishing without a doubt that a majority of your problems of acceptance in the world have little to do with your actual physical body.....as you please.

The ladies can continue to post on things curd-like.

Everyone wins.


RedVelvet (good morning)


----------



## mergirl

now..i have absolutely nothing to say and no wisdom to impart. Infact i dont even have pics of cheese..but i would like to be a part of this record breaking thred.. hmm actually i think i said something about 50 pages ago..but what the heck.. anyway..about 10 years ago i was in the worlds largest conga line.. but i feel that record may have been beaten now..so i'd kinna like to add "participant of the worlds largest meandering post" to my cv!!

xmer


----------



## CAMellie

RedVelvet said:


> Hi William
> 
> 
> You do not control the thread.
> 
> It may meander as it pleases.
> 
> You, of course, can continue establishing without a doubt that a majority of your problems of acceptance in the world have little to do with your actual physical body.....as you please.
> 
> The ladies can continue to post on things curd-like.
> 
> Everyone wins.
> 
> 
> RedVelvet (good morning)



Would you care for some cheese? Perhaps a nice brioche?


----------



## RedVelvet

CAMellie said:


> Would you care for some cheese? Perhaps a nice brioche?




Brioche please...no cheese..just the bread..thank you!

Unless you mean brie?


----------



## CAMellie

RedVelvet said:


> Brioche please...no cheese..just the bread..thank you!
> 
> Unless you mean brie?



Brie? Of course, fair lady! I have a wide variety of fine cheeses to choose from.


----------



## RedVelvet

CAMellie said:


> Brie? Of course, fair lady! I have a wide variety of fine cheeses to choose from.



mmm...then I shall have a nice warmed brie with roasted spreadable garlic on the side..and wilted sauteed spinach...and the brioche to spread it on...yeah.


(one of my fav appies from John Ash.....god, I miss living in the wine country...)


----------



## snuggletiger

Whatever happened to Sharp or Colby cheese? how come they have been pushed out of the forefront? or a nice Roquefort perchance?


----------



## butch

I wonder if this is a record for longest Dims thread without a kelligrl apperance? If so, good show, people. If not, then someone needs to come up with a kelligrl and cheese pic pronto, and post it here.

(Yes, I am one of those people fascinated by all things kelligrl. Seriously, she is one of the 7 modern wonders of the world. Wouldn't it be cool if her image showed up on a moldy grilled cheese snadwich?)


----------



## ThikJerseyChik

RedVelvet said:


> Hi William
> 
> 
> You do not control the thread.
> 
> It may meander as it pleases.
> 
> You, of course, can continue establishing without a doubt that a majority of your problems of acceptance in the world have little to do with your actual physical body.....as you please.
> 
> The ladies can continue to post on things curd-like.
> 
> Everyone wins.
> 
> 
> RedVelvet (good morning)



Not only are you simply adorable but I think I love you!  :smitten:


----------



## mergirl

butch said:


> I wonder if this is a record for longest Dims thread without a kelligrl apperance? If so, good show, people. If not, then someone needs to come up with a kelligrl and cheese pic pronto, and post it here.
> 
> (Yes, I am one of those people fascinated by all things kelligrl. Seriously, she is one of the 7 modern wonders of the world. Wouldn't it be cool if her image showed up on a moldy grilled cheese snadwich?)


oh lmao! you know it would have been a kelligirl free massive thred were you not to have mentioned her.. oh well.. Ahh interesting thought though, we should all keep our eyes peeled for antiquated Fa fantasies that show up on cheeses, the face of the moon, on burns toast etc.. Or maby we should just not beat around the bush and actually get bbw model cheese made especially!? i feel this would be a great idea..
"Anne marie brie" erm.. i cant think of any more cause i just woke up after a post reflexology snooze and my brain is not fully working yet.. answers on a postcard!!

xmer


----------



## RedVelvet

Butch's sig has a Peter Murphy song lyric.

Damn rep system.


----------



## snuggletiger

butch said:


> I wonder if this is a record for longest Dims thread without a kelligrl apperance? If so, good show, people. If not, then someone needs to come up with a kelligrl and cheese pic pronto, and post it here.
> 
> (Yes, I am one of those people fascinated by all things kelligrl. Seriously, she is one of the 7 modern wonders of the world. Wouldn't it be cool if her image showed up on a moldy grilled cheese snadwich?)



Gak, now the kelligril jinx is on us.


----------



## Tooz

snuggletiger said:


> Gak, now the kelligril jinx is on us.



Kelligrill?


----------



## snuggletiger

Ummm yeah Tooz that lady. Although she could probably showcase her own Bar & Grille in some exotic locale.


----------



## furious styles

Tooz said:


> Kelligrill?









???


----------



## Tooz

mfdoom said:


> ???



Yes.
filler


----------



## furious styles

it knocks the fat ....... in.


----------



## mergirl

mfdoom said:


> ???


oh jesus..lmao!!! LMAO!!!! hahahahahahahahaha
ok..i snorted!

xmer


----------



## stan_der_man

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> How come you men always want to bring up Elvis whenever us fat women mention cheese?
> 
> http://heyvalera.com/photo/2007/08/070816Elvis.jpg
> 
> ....



'Cause ma'am... Elvis was a Hunk-a-hunka burnin' Cheese!




olwen said:


> LOL Jailhouse cheese.
> 
> Oh man, this is way too much funny for one day.



No really... Hunk-a-hunka burnin' Cheese... thankya ma'am.





William said:


> Hi
> 
> I am backing down because there is no chance of having a conversation and no chance of not having my statements warped into something else.
> 
> So be happy, you have won, the "worse trolls of Fat Acceptance" would be proud of your tactics and you unwillingness to converse.
> 
> Maybe another day
> 
> William




Look at it this way William... Considering that Carl is the OP of this thread, you are technically one of many thread hijackers here...

Anger and frustration are not the makings of a cohesive argument William. I think there was some potentially good debate material here, maybe with facts in order and a cohesive direction this could be an interesting topic. Get your information in order, try to get information that is as objective as you can find and return for debate another day. 




Sweet Tooth said:


> WTF? Why am I always the one getting quoted? LOL




Mind if I quote you ma'am...?



































thankyouverymuch



daddyoh70 said:


> WOW!!! I must say that I am very pleased at what I'm seeing right now. I was gone for the day on Sunday (sorry I didn't post one of those "I'm going to be away for the day" threads  ) but 8 pages since Saturday morning!!!! I am more than impressed. I seriously thought this thread was going to die a slow death before hitting the big Five-O. Seems as though Mossy breathed some new life into it. Gosh, so much has happened I can't even begin to comment on everyone's comments.
> Anyway, Yes Fat Girls do Rule!!!
> If anyone wants to tie me to a giant cheese wheel and throw slices of salami at me, I'm more than willing.
> And to quote Stan....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thankyouverymuch.




No, my pleasure... really... it was.
























TCB.... gotta go.





mfdoom said:


> ???



So Kelligrl... How are you likin' it here in Bermuda? Lovely isn't it?


Have you ever tried those with peanut butter on them?






Thankya ma'am.


----------



## stan_der_man

I was just thinkin...




What would be a fitting end for this thread... we may need to consult with Carl, it was his thread after all.


Should we just let the cheese go bad...?








































Or the whine turn to vinegar...?







































Must we wait until Elvis has left the building...?









































Or will some singing be necessary...?


----------



## Tooz

I'm gonna open the Kelligrill somewhere in New England.


Details to come.

Specializing in lobster rolls and meatloaf sandwiches.


----------



## Carl1h

fa_man_stan said:


> I was just thinkin...
> 
> What would be a fitting end for this thread... we may need to consult with Carl, it was his thread after all.



As far as I'm concerned, 


*It's all fun and games*









*Until someone*









*Loses an eye.*








Oh, god, now are you all satisfied?


----------



## Waxwing

Tooz said:


> I'm gonna open the Kelligrill somewhere in New England.
> 
> 
> Details to come.
> 
> Specializing in lobster rolls and meatloaf sandwiches.



I'll take 2 of each.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Tooz said:


> I'm gonna open the Kelligrill somewhere in New England.
> 
> 
> Details to come.
> 
> Specializing in lobster rolls and meatloaf sandwiches.



How BIG are those lobster rolls? Post pixors plz kthxbye


----------



## daddyoh70

Tooz said:


> I'm gonna open the Kelligrill somewhere in New England.
> 
> 
> Details to come.
> 
> Specializing in lobster rolls and meatloaf sandwiches.



That might just be enough to make me move the 300 and some odd miles north just so I could eat there everyday. :eat2:


----------



## Fascinita

daddyoh70 said:


> That might just be enough to make me move the 300 and some odd miles north just so I could eat there everyday. :eat2:



Only 300 miles?


----------



## TropicalFish

I just need you all to know something. I would bang James McAvoy if he was skinny or fat. For he is a hot Scottish mansteak and I want to hit that like a pinata.


----------



## butch

Fascinita said:


> Only 300 miles?



If you bring Mary Stuart Masterson and Johnny Depp along, I'd go 500 miles, minimum.


----------



## olwen

Oh, that's who those guys are. :doh:


----------



## Fascinita

butch said:


> If you bring Mary Stuart Masterson and Johnny Depp along, I'd go 500 miles, minimum.



Good eye, butch! And, yes--I'll have to look--but I think I still have Depp stashed away somewhere in my attic. Yes can do on bringing him along. 

PS - I'm not psychotic or anything.


----------



## daddyoh70

Fascinita said:


> Only 300 miles?



That's all the further I live from New England. Give or take a couple hundred miles.



butch said:


> If you bring Mary Stuart Masterson and Johnny Depp along, I'd go 500 miles, minimum.



If you bring Bruce Campbell and Mike Ness, I would walk 500 miles, then I would walk 500 more Just to be the man who walked 1000 miles to eat at Kelligrill


----------



## Fascinita

daddyoh70 said:


> If you bring Bruce Campbell and Mike Ness, I would walk 500 miles, then I would walk 500 more Just to be the man who walked 1000 miles to eat at Kelligrill



Which one's Mike Ness? You mean "Prettyboy" Mike Ness of Social Distortion fame? Have you seen _Another State of Mind,_ by any chance, daddy?


----------



## daddyoh70

Fascinita said:


> Which one's Mike Ness? You mean "Prettyboy" Mike Ness of Social Distortion fame? Have you seen _Another State of Mind,_ by any chance, daddy?



I own _Another State of Mind_ (the DVD that is). And _as if _there was another Mike Ness. Yes, I've been listening to Social Distortion since the early 1990's when they finally started playing their stuff on the radio on this side of the country. 
Here's my leg. Just thought I'd throw that in for randomness.


----------



## Fascinita

daddyoh70 said:


> I own _Another State of Mind_ (the DVD that is). And _as if _there was another Mike Ness. Yes, I've been listening to Social Distortion since the early 1990's when they finally started playing their stuff on the radio on this side of the country.
> Here's my leg. Just thought I'd throw that in for randomness.



lol... Some foxy hairy gams there, daddy. For a second I thought they was Mike Ness's legs.

You have good taste in men, good taste in movies, and now good taste in music. What's next? Good taste in magicians?

I think Ness is actually from Mass, originally. I could be wrong about that.


----------



## daddyoh70

Page 56. Woo Hoo



Fascinita said:


> lol... Some foxy hairy gams there, daddy. For a second I thought they was Mike Ness's legs.





> You have good taste in men, good taste in movies, and now good taste in music.


I've thought the same about you too. 



> What's next? Good taste in magicians?
> I think Ness is actually from Mass, originally. I could be wrong about that.



As far as magicians go, I haven't seen a good one since Houdini, maybe Harry Blacksone Jr.  . You are correct about Ness' birthplace, Lynn, MA. then was raised in Orange County.


----------



## Famouslastwords

I live in the same apt complex as Ms. Blackstone. She's a cool lady.


----------



## mergirl

butch said:


> If you bring Mary Stuart Masterson and Johnny Depp along, I'd go 500 miles, minimum.


oh whoot!!! divine! Favorite person ever! i better get them cha cha heels!!!! muwahahaha!!

xxmer


----------



## mergirl

mergirl said:


> oh whoot!!! divine! Favorite person ever! i better get them cha cha heels!!!! muwahahaha!!
> 
> xxmer


erm.. i ment your avitar! lol..

xmer


----------



## mergirl

olwen said:


> Oh, that's who those guys are. :doh:


cant belive you forgot "the proclaimers"!!! They are scotlands finest!! lmao.. darra ra ra! dara ra ra! da ra rum da ra ra ra rum da ra ra ra ra!!!


----------



## butch

mergirl said:


> erm.. i ment your avitar! lol..
> 
> xmer



Aw, you broke my heart in the space of two posts, mergirl. First I was your fave person ever, and then I was nothing. 

Cha cha heels are the devil's footwork, dontcha know? If I wasn't worried about you knocking over your mum and running away from home, I'd get you a pair of cha cha heels for the holidays.


----------



## mergirl

butch said:


> Aw, you broke my heart in the space of two posts, mergirl. First I was your fave person ever, and then I was nothing.
> 
> Cha cha heels are the devil's footwork, dontcha know? If I wasn't worried about you knocking over your mum and running away from home, I'd get you a pair of cha cha heels for the holidays.


awww.. there is room in my heart for both you AND divine.. but if i ever see you eating a meatball sandwhich right out in class then i'm sending you to catholic school where you belong!!! lmao

xxmer


----------



## Paquito

I must spread some Reputation around before giving to GEF and olwen again, damn you rep system!
I'll show you my cheese wheel if you show me yours


----------



## olwen

mergirl said:


> cant belive you forgot "the proclaimers"!!! They are scotlands finest!! lmao.. darra ra ra! dara ra ra! da ra rum da ra ra ra rum da ra ra ra ra!!!



I'm no scotttesh las.


----------



## stan_der_man

mergirl said:


> cant belive you forgot "the proclaimers"!!! They are scotlands finest!! lmao.. darra ra ra! dara ra ra! da ra rum da ra ra ra rum da ra ra ra ra!!!



Speaking of Scottish... Just the other day I saw a brand new Greeves motorcycle. Aren't they made in Scotland?



Sorry for going off topic here...


----------



## Paquito

fa_man_stan said:


> Sorry for going off topic here...



That is completely unacceptable, get back to the topic.


----------



## mergirl

fa_man_stan said:


> Speaking of Scottish... Just the other day I saw a brand new Greeves motorcycle. Aren't they made in Scotland?
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry for going off topic here...


erm.. sorry ..i know nothing at all about motercycles.. i dont even know car names!!

xmer


----------



## olwen

free2beme04 said:


> I must spread some Reputation around before giving to GEF and olwen again, damn you rep system!
> I'll show you my cheese wheel if you show me yours



I'll only show you my cheese wheel if you promise to eat a little.


----------



## mergirl

free2beme04 said:


> That is completely unacceptable, get back to the topic.


oh lol.. i think its nice to post random thred interuptions! cheese always difuses tricky situations i feel!! 

xmer


----------



## Paquito

olwen said:


> I'll only show you my cheese wheel if you promise to eat a little.



Outstanding

Depends on the cheese darling


----------



## daddyoh70

fa_man_stan said:


> Speaking of Scottish... Just the other day I saw a brand new Greeves motorcycle. Aren't they made in Scotland?



They are/were made somewhere in the UK





> Sorry for going off topic here...



Come on now Stan. 56 pages, it was bound to happen sooner or later


----------



## olwen

free2beme04 said:


> Outstanding
> 
> Depends on the cheese darling



My cheese wheel is made of only the finest milk. A little tangy and smooth with a hint of salt and melts perfectly between two slices of hot bread. A nice havarti perhaps...


----------



## Paquito

olwen said:


> My cheese wheel is made of only the finest milk. A little tangy and smooth with a hint of salt and melts perfectly between two slices of hot bread. A nice havarti perhaps...



Sold.

Oh baby say it slower.....thats it...
(Gabriel Iglesias, discussing his love for chocolate cake)


----------



## olwen

free2beme04 said:


> Sold.
> 
> Oh baby say it slower.....thats it...
> (Gabriel Iglesias, discussing his love for chocolate cake)



Ha! I'm guessing your cheese is a queso de papa or maybe a good mozerella?

Yum.


----------



## Paquito

double post, my bad


----------



## Paquito

olwen said:


> Ha! I'm guessing your cheese is a queso de papa or maybe a good mozerella?
> 
> Yum.



This thread is now "Olwen and Free's Cheese Fun"
other kiddies, scamper along now, we have some business to take care of 

Mozzarella, now you speakin my language :eat2:


----------



## olwen

free2beme04 said:


> This thread is now "Olwen and Free's Cheese Fun"
> other kiddies, scamper along now, we have some business to take care of
> 
> Mozzarella, now you speakin my language :Eat2:



So how 'bout that cheese beating? Guess who's wielding the paddle?  

GEF, I'm so using this pic:
View attachment 45100


aww heck, screw the cheese - I'm feelin randy.


----------



## mergirl

free2beme04 said:


> This thread is now "Olwen and Free's Cheese Fun"
> other kiddies, scamper along now, we have some business to take care of
> 
> Mozzarella, now you speakin my language :eat2:


yeah.. you n olwen play your stupid cheese games.. i shall be sulking in the corner clutching crackers to my chest and sobbing!! hope you cheesey beano's r happy now!!
moof! 

xmer


----------



## snuggletiger

olwen said:


> So how 'bout that cheese beating? Guess who's wielding the paddle?
> 
> GEF, I'm so using this pic:
> View attachment 45100
> 
> 
> aww heck, screw the cheese - I'm feelin randy.



If I could only be the lucky cheese wheel


----------



## stan_der_man

Hey, I just wanted to say thanks for the forgiveness regarding my off topicocity...


Back to the subject at hand.








BTW... While are all together here in this thread, how about a group photo?


----------



## olwen

Stan, that's just too creepy for words.


----------



## olwen

mergirl said:


> yeah.. you n olwen play your stupid cheese games.. i shall be sulking in the corner clutching crackers to my chest and sobbing!! hope you cheesey beano's r happy now!!
> moof!
> 
> xmer



Don't sulk in the corner, grab a paddle and join in the cheese wheel fun. Everybody gets a turn!


----------



## stan_der_man

olwen said:


> Stan, that's just too creepy for words.



So...... I'll take that as an ixnay on the group photo.




































How 'bouts we all get together and make some Cheese Doodle sculpture!?


----------



## mergirl

olwen said:


> Don't sulk in the corner, grab a paddle and join in the cheese wheel fun. Everybody gets a turn!


oh whoot!! really?? i feel cheese accepted at last!! lol
eternal thanks forever cheesesomely..

xmer


----------



## Paquito

olwen said:


> Don't sulk in the corner, grab a paddle and join in the cheese wheel fun. Everybody gets a turn!




Indeed, we always have room for the Scots!


----------



## mergirl

mergirl said:


> oh whoot!! really?? i feel cheese accepted at last!! lol
> eternal thanks forever cheesesomely..
> 
> xmer


grilled cheese jesus anyone??
"sacrilicious" 

View attachment grilled cheese jesus.jpg


----------



## mergirl

free2beme04 said:


> Indeed, we always have room for the Scots!


are you sure?? we are a roomy people!


----------



## Paquito

mergirl said:


> are you sure?? we are a roomy people!



Indeed, join in the fun


----------



## olwen

free2beme04 said:


> Indeed, join in the fun



Now that's what I'm talkin about - Free, my what a really big paddle you have.

And Stan, that cheese doodle sculpture is also creepy, but in a matrixy kind of way, if that makes any sense. Can you tell I'm easily creeped out?


----------



## snuggletiger

*pondering Olwen's paddle*


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

olwen said:


> I'll only show you my cheese wheel if you promise to eat a little.



I'm more interested in finding out exactly how big HIS cheese wheel is......


----------



## olwen

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I'm more interested in finding out exactly how big HIS cheese wheel is......



Sure, but a girl can only swallow so much cheese.


----------



## mossystate

there is a from under joke that is yearning to be set free...I shall not be the one to cut the cheese...errr....rope


----------



## daddyoh70

mossystate said:


> there is a from under joke that is yearning to be set free...I shall not be the one to cut the cheese...errr....rope



I'm not even gonna touch that one...


But here is the latest photo from the Mars Lander Phoenix!!!




Apparently there is intelligent life on Mars.


----------



## wrestlingguy

I'm the guy who hates the Olwen and Free's Cheese Fun thread. Can we talk about it here?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Only if you post pix of your cheese wheel........


----------



## olwen

wrestlingguy said:


> I'm the guy who hates the Olwen and Free's Cheese Fun thread. Can we talk about it here?





Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Only if you post pix of your cheese wheel........



Less talky, more spanky.


----------



## wrestlingguy

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Only if you post pix of your cheese wheel........



Someone stole the cheese wheel.......will my feta cheese barrel do?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Did you say..................BARREL? 


*swoons and passes out*


----------



## snuggletiger

olwen said:


> Less talky, more spanky.



Where does my cheese wheel sign up for the spanking


----------



## wrestlingguy

olwen said:


> Less talky, more spanky.


Who's doing the spanking?


----------



## olwen

snuggletiger said:


> Where does my cheese wheel sign up for the spanking



the line forms behind me.



wrestlingguy said:


> Who's doing the spanking?



anybody but me.


----------



## snuggletiger

*stands next to Olwen and gives her a flower* is this a good spot to start from?


----------



## olwen

snuggletiger said:


> *stands next to Olwen and gives her a flower* is this a good spot to start from?



awwww cute. Only if the flower has thorns.


----------



## snuggletiger

Ohhhh big thorns or little thorns, the roses on the rose bushes at my house have all kinds of thorns.


----------



## olwen

Doesn't matter. They all cause the same sting. Ouch. Mmmmmm.


----------



## SilkyAngela

We interrupt this hijacked thread to bring you "BHM and Cheese: A Living Art"





carry on... 

View attachment 070630_bigCheese_hmed9p_hmedium.jpg


----------



## snuggletiger

olwen said:


> Doesn't matter. They all cause the same sting. Ouch. Mmmmmm.



Ooooh stinging can be good if its done right


----------



## Paquito

Don't start the stinging without me 
*Brings a dozen wild roses *


----------



## snuggletiger

I'll volunteer on behalf of everyone


----------



## olwen

Boys, boys, there's plenty of me to go around. Just remember to pay at the door. We accept all forms of cheese except cottage cheese and limburger. Blech!


----------



## snuggletiger

Yummy beyond yummy


----------



## Paquito

I knew my cheese reserve would come in handy one day


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

How BIG is the line now?


----------



## snuggletiger

I don't know I am just standing in line


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

who are you behind and who are you in front of? 




and where's my picture???????


----------



## snuggletiger

I don't know I was in line for a spanking and I don't know what happened *shrug*


----------



## olwen

so far there are two or four people in line for that cheese beating and my butt needs tenderizing.


----------



## Fascinita

I'm going to say it, and I'll regret saying it no doubt...

With all the gorging on cheese and pickles and whatnot, this thread doesn't need a spanking, this thread needs an enema.

:happy:


----------



## stan_der_man

Just thinkin'...


If you add a few more letter "e"s to the word "wheel" when saying "cheese wheel", does that make it more fun?


cheese wheeeeeeeeeeel...!



Not really.



Carry on.


----------



## stan_der_man

Fascinita said:


> I'm going to say it, and I'll regret saying it no doubt...
> 
> With all the gorging on cheese and pickles and whatnot, this thread doesn't need a spanking, this thread needs an enema.
> 
> :happy:



Adding a few "e"s to the word "enema" doesn't make it any more fun either.


I tried.



eeeeeeeeeeeeeeenema



It may insinuate the element of surprise though.




Interesting.


----------



## Fascinita

You could try saying this, in your most patronizing, singsong voice:

"There, there, hon, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeenemas are goooooooood for you. You'll get that squeaky clean feeling."

Would that work?


----------



## olwen

This thread probably does need an enema and a high colonic to boot.


----------



## daddyoh70

Fascinita said:


> You could try saying this, in your most patronizing, singsong voice:
> 
> "There, there, hon, *eeeeeeeeeeeeeeenemas are goooooooood for you*. You'll get that squeaky clean feeling."
> 
> Would that work?



I don't think so. When you say it like that...
I envision this


----------



## stan_der_man

daddyoh70 said:


> Fascinita said:
> 
> 
> 
> You could try saying this, in your most patronizing, singsong voice:
> 
> "There, there, hon, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeenemas are goooooooood for you. You'll get that squeaky clean feeling."
> 
> Would that work?
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think so. When you say it like that...
> I envision this
Click to expand...


Actually, come to think of it... a "whoohoo!" after an enema would be the most disconcerting. Either by the one administering it, or by the recipient.


----------



## Fascinita

daddyoh70 said:


> I don't think so. When you say it like that...
> I envision this



The rubbery-looking gloves on this guy are a nice touch.


----------



## Mathias

I like cereal.

-So says I, this random guy.


----------



## stan_der_man

No discussion of enemas would be complete without this link.


Teenage Enema Nurses



... a classic little ditty that Swamptoad recently reminded me of. :bow:


Perhaps it's something like this that we need to "purge" this thread once and for all...


----------



## stan_der_man

MattS19 said:


> I like cereal.
> 
> -So says I, this random guy.



Matt, that is sick! Have you ever seen cereal after it's been....


... oh never mind.















































But seriously Matt, the last thing we need here is anything serial.


----------



## Mathias

Guess I showed up to the party late, huh?


----------



## daddyoh70

Fascinita said:


> The rubbery-looking gloves on this guy are a nice touch.



Well, you know, with OSHA and all that. Even got the safety goggles. It can be quite hazardous working down that end, especially with all the cheese floating around on this thread.


----------



## stan_der_man

MattS19 said:


> Guess I showed up to the party late, huh?



What party?


----------



## daddyoh70

I hear in Japan, public enemas are fun for people of all ages


----------



## stan_der_man

daddyoh70 said:


> I here in Japan, public enemas are fun for people of all ages



It's fascinating how the Japanese are able to automate everything!






You can even get a clean pair of undies afterwards apparently...


...or maybe a cigarette. I'm not really sure.


----------



## stan_der_man

Oh jeeze... we are so close to page 60!


----------



## daddyoh70

fa_man_stan said:


> Oh jeeze... we are so close to page 60!



Did we make it?!?!?!?!?

It appears that we have.


----------



## stan_der_man

daddyoh70 said:


> Did we make it?!?!?!?!?



You still got that magic touch Daddyoh... Bumped us right over the edge!:bow:


----------



## daddyoh70

Thanks Stan, but I think this thread went over the edge pages ago 

It got close right around here 
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=816874&postcount=30

A little closer right here
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=818350&postcount=107

People started going over the edge right about this point
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=819638&postcount=162

I believe the point of no return occurred right about here. and I am forever in debt to CAMelllie for one of her best posts ever
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=830803&postcount=781


----------



## Fascinita

You people have pushed my sanity to the brink of its limits.

I hope you can all live with yourselves knowing this.


----------



## stan_der_man

Fascinita said:


> You people have pushed my sanity to the brink of its limits.
> 
> I hope you can all live with yourselves knowing this.



Fascinita, we all have to live with ourselves anyway.























































Knowing this will add a ray of sunshine to our otherwise tenebrific existences. 



stan_von_schadenfreude


----------



## daddyoh70

Just found this and couldn't resist...
Go Russia


----------



## mejix

are we ready to say goodbye to this thread? shouldn't there be some sort of ceremony? a tv special maybe?


----------



## CAMellie

daddyoh70 said:


> I believe the point of no return occurred right about here. and I am forever in debt to CAMelllie for one of her best posts ever
> http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=830803&postcount=781




*clutches trophy in sweaty hands* You like me! You REALLY like me!


----------



## Santaclear

mejix said:


> are we ready to say goodbye to this thread? shouldn't there be some sort of ceremony? a tv special maybe?



You know, they say the thread's not over until we've heard the fat lady sing about hating the hot guy thread.

P.S. She sings about liking cheese too - that comes later on, maybe in the third verse. 

View attachment fat_lady.jpg


----------



## CAMellie

Santaclear said:


> You know, they say the thread's not over until we've heard the fat lady sing about hating the hot guy thread.
> 
> P.S. She sings about liking cheese too - that comes later on, maybe in the third verse.




Mmmmmmm....cheese! :wubu:


----------



## Jack Skellington

Fascinita said:


> You people have pushed my sanity to the brink of its limits.
> 
> I hope you can all live with yourselves knowing this.



Two out of the three voices in my head are totally good with that. The third one is merely indifferent.


----------



## Fascinita

Jack Skellington said:


> Two out of the three voices in my head are totally good with that. The third one is merely indifferent.



Yes, but what do four out of five dentists say?


----------



## CAMellie

Fascinita said:


> Yes, but what do four out of five dentists say?



Chew Dentyne :bow:


----------



## snuggletiger

Shouldn't we have a Mills Brothers MEMORIES OF YOU esque moment?


----------



## mejix

Just wanted to remind everyone that tomorrow is the 2 month anniversary of the "I'm the guy who hates the hot guy thread, let's talk about it here" thread. 

We'll be meeting at noon for a little program with live music, poems and refreshments. There will also be social workers.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

mejix said:


> are we ready to say goodbye to this thread? shouldn't there be some sort of ceremony? a tv special maybe?





mejix said:


> Just wanted to remind everyone that tomorrow is the 2 month anniversary of the "I'm the guy who hates the hot guy thread, let's talk about it here" thread.
> 
> We'll be meeting at noon for a little program with live music, poems and refreshments. There will also be social workers.



Maybe there could be a ceremonial closing of the thread tonight, congruent with the Olympic Grand Opening? The fireworks, the grandeur, the dignitaries from around the world could all be conscripted for the sole purpose of glorifying this marathon community effort.

(Of course we'd all be on the Dims honor system not to ogle any of the skinny athlete hotties, boys and girls alike, so as not to offend the sensibilities of the originator of this erstwhile thread.) :bow:


----------



## Fascinita

mejix said:


> Just wanted to remind everyone that tomorrow is the 2 month anniversary of the "I'm the guy who hates the hot guy thread, let's talk about it here" thread.
> 
> We'll be meeting at noon for a little program with live music, poems and refreshments. There will also be social workers.



Grief counselors, even?

Will they be handing out Prozac, for those of us who've lapsed into a funk since then?

(You're such a devil, mejix :happy: )


----------



## Jon Blaze

60 pages? Jesus. IT'S OVER 9000!!!


----------



## Santaclear

Thanks, mejix, and welcome back, everyone. 

I've missed this thread.


----------



## Shosh

mejix said:


> Just wanted to remind everyone that tomorrow is the 2 month anniversary of the "I'm the guy who hates the hot guy thread, let's talk about it here" thread.
> 
> We'll be meeting at noon for a little program with live music, poems and refreshments. There will also be social workers.




Yay refreshments! I am there.


----------



## olwen

....oh no....must....kill...thread...


----------



## mossystate

I'm the woman who loves hot men, yet, not so much the overly sweaty man.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

mossystate said:


> I'm the woman who loves hot men, yet, not so much the overly sweaty man.



So you don't plan on breaking in those hot men in by getting them hot and sweaty.........? :blink:  




"Overly Sweaty"....that does sound kind of hot......... :batting:


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## Dibaby35

I'll take a hot man any way he wants to be..lol..okay maybe not farting next to me..okay maybe if it doesn't stink too bad..LMAO..


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## T_Devil

I'm the guy who could care less if he wanted too.

I only have to be hot for one woman, and she thought I was hot enough to marry. :happy:


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## bexy

T_Devil said:


> I'm the guy who could care less if he wanted too.
> 
> I only have to be hot for one woman, and she thought I was hot enough to marry. :happy:



Awk T! This is sweet!


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## superodalisque

i know i'm coming very late to this. i find the hot guy thread interesting. i don't particularly like it myself. just because its not really my style to judge people just on what they look like. i don't feel anything when i look at the images on there. i might look at a guy and say yes he is pretty. but i wouldn't feel any temptation toward him as a fantasy or want to look at him again unless there was something about him as a person as well. i'm just not personally wired to get hot and bothered just because someone fits a certian social standard. 

having said that, i think the girls here have the right to a hot boy thread. the girls don't have an FA paysite board to go to. after all everyday they are subject to guys positive and negative opinions toward them and their bodies in dims. and, the guys don't hesitate at all to tell us their choice of fruit or weight or belly preference. if some women here feel objectified people say that its only because of a lack of confidence. why is there a double standard? its okay for a guy to state his preferences but when a woman does it there is a problem.

i don't think its good for anyone to go around telling people they are not attracted to why they fall outside of their preference. why not just have nice things to say to and about the people that do? until guys stop saying that they don't like a certain kind of woman physically, women have the right to do the same. maybe to encourage a more tender discourse everyone has to stop putting other people in a box. there is nothing wrong with telling your girl or guy "i love your hips, i love your abs, i love your belly" etc... but what purpose does it serve to tell a girl or a guy your not interested in what they have? BHMs are not exempt from this behavior. they have said the same to me as well. some even go out of their way to tell me that even though they are a BHM they are not an FA. these are people i haven't had any intentions toward whatsoever. what place does that statement have in a general conversation?

in a way maybe the hot boy thread is subconsciusly a way for women here to kind of get theirs back. guys here have no problem talking about how hot the web models are etc... there are a lot of girls who also might feel left out by that. so before you get upset think about if there isn't a bit of the pot calling the kettle black going on. why is it okay for a man to have and voice his preferences but not okay for a woman too? even when we are all able to meet up the double standard is still alive and well. its typical for guys who have said they are interested in a particular BBW personally to put his hands all over every other BBW, have them sitting in his lap, give them massages and the one he says he is interested in is expected to wait patiently calmly and happily for her turn to come. but if a BBW does so much as hug another FA he will stalk off angrily. sometimes it makes me wonder if even people who say they support BBWs feel that we should be happy with just anyone who will pay us any attention. sometimes i wonder if secretly a lot of people who admire fat women don't really feel we warrant a choice. as one FA once told me, maybe i should be happy that someone i'm NOT interested in is paying me attention--because "lets face it, not a lot of men want BBWs". (disclaimer: thats definitely not my opinion but a direct quote from someone here i had a convo with.) he is a BHM.


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## William

The evil Rep System will not allow me to Rep you again 

William




superodalisque said:


> i know i'm coming very late to this. i find the hot guy thread interesting.
> 
> 
> i don't particularly like it myself. just because its not really my style to judge people just on what they look like. i don't feel anything when i look at the images on there. i might look at a guy and say yes he is pretty. but i wouldn't feel any temptation toward him as a fantasy or want to look at him again unless there was something about him as a person as well. i'm just not personally wired to get hot and bothered just because someone fits a certian social standard.


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## mejix

this could be the first controversial thread to decompose, disappear and then reconstitute itself.


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## Shosh

mejix said:


> this could be the first controversial thread to decompose, disappear and then reconstitute itself.



Yes I too had thought rigor mortis had set in. The thread shall be renamed "Arise Lazarus"


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