# Realizations



## pudgy (May 31, 2008)

Over the past year or so, I've learned so much from the Dimensions community. In the beginning, I was ashamed of my feeling towards big women, namely, that they too could be beautiful; now, I went so far as to post a public note to my college about my thoughts on the matter. I used to be afraid of fat and its evils; now I understand the media and cultural taint on facts that the majority of people will never hear. Heck, I've simply become more educated on the thoughts of women, ideas on sexuality, and the world in general.

But last night I had to do some hard thinking and thus came to some equally hard conclusions. For all the good Dimensions does - the truth-telling, the esteem-boosting, the community-building - for all the good it does, it can be downright poisonous as well. Perhaps the example I feel most passionate about is the devaluing of women. It's kind of a paradox, actually. Women, scared to death of the weight, size, and shape, meekly and humbly post pictures to dozen of threads (Belly Hang, Sexiest Pics Naked, Sexiest Pics Clothed, Skinniest and Fatties, Show Your Face, Most Recent Pic, etc...). To their incredible surprise they are loved, admired, almost famed.

But at what cost?

The fact is, these women are still - believe it or not - women. Though they deserve better than what society offers them, I think they deserve better than what we here at Dimensions offer them as well, i.e. men (and women) oggling, gazing, staring, masturbating, lusting over their naked or half-naked (or clothed!) bodies. If women truly have the inherent, intrinsic worth and beauty that this website implies - if not explicitly states - then don't you think that it should be shown by not supporting them showing off their bodies for the world to see?

Now some of you may balk at this and call me an old Christian fundamentalist fuddle-duddy. You claim that because of their worth they deserve the right or ability to post their pictures to be oggled at. But if you really want to talk about worth, the more common they become, the more views their post has, the less worth they seem to have. Each view of the picture implies, "I'm not that unique or special. Therefore not just one person gets to see me like this but _everyone!_" Isn't that the opposite of what we want?

And the simple fact is lust that brings about self-esteem _is still lust._

The second hard realization I came to about all of this is that _I have fallen into the same trap_. I too have come here looking for pictures of gorgeous women, seeing things that I would never see anywhere else. I too have fallen pray into making these girls into mere pixels instead of human beings. And thus my penis rises and falls due to the ascribed beauty I place on them, most of the time forgetting that these pixels do in fact represent people and - probably worse - forgetting that my fiance would be crushed if she knew what I was doing at this site.

Again, one more poison. Though I can truly only blame myself, I have to wonder about the general perception growing in society about porn (or whatever it is you look at to get yourself riled up). It's appalling that I am here despite my having a fiance. But in society, there's almost this pat-on-the-back kind of attitude that says, "We all do it; we understand." But lust is still lust! And my fiance _doesn't_ just understand. Each visit to the paysite board would be one more whisper in her ear, "You aren't pretty enough."

Is this my "I'm Leaving" post? I doubt it; I'm sure I'll be getting comments and PM's aplenty. Heck, maybe I'll get banned for fighting status quo (what this site does so well). But I tell you what: this definitely is my "I'm Changing" post. 

May God help me never to look at you beautiful women the same way ever again. You _are_ beautiful and thus deserve enough respect from me to not look your way with wide-open eyes, but leave that to your boyfriends or husbands. I write this because you women are incredible and deserve to be loved - but not by hundreds of lustful eyes...simply two loving ones.


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## Violet_Beauregard (May 31, 2008)

Married, single, engaged.... whatever one's situation may be..... since when is it a bad thing to appreciate a woman's beauty? You're looking at pictures on a screen! You're not engaging in a physical relationship with these women... ie. cheating on your fiance! These women have CHOSEN to put out there (myself included). If we didn't want to be looked at, we wouldn't post them! 

Looking at a woman's picture, appreciating her beauty.... and yes, even perhaps thinking "wow, she's hot!".... is not telling your fiance that she's not pretty enough. If you think it is, then I suggest you never look at another women... ever. When you go to the grocery store, be sure not to look at the cashier, or the lady behind the deli counter. When you go to the bank, don't look at the teller. And when you take your fiance out to dinner, don't look at the waitress. If you do, that might tell your fiance that she's not pretty enough.

Does that sound ridiculous? Yeah, it is. But essentially, that's what you're saying... that you can't look at other women and appreciate their beauty, because you're engaged. I can guarantee that she hasn't stopped looking at other men. Is she acting on it? No, probably not, but she still has eyes.... as do you. 

As far as the women being devalued because everyone is oogling their pics? Speaking for myself... the last time I checked, no one was twisting MY arm around my back and forcing me to post pictures of myself. I do that willingly. I would venture to guess the the women who post their pics feel pretty darn good about themselves. Posting pics is something they do for themselves. What the readers choose to do when they see the pics is their own business. Other ladies choose NOT to post pics... also their choice. Everyone expresses themselves in different ways. Don't assume that the women are being devalued because their pics are being looked at. That's hardly the case.

To be totally honest, I think you're feeling guilty because you DO appreciate the women here and DO enjoy their pics. I think the sooner you realize that looking at other women and appreciating their beauty, does NOT mean that you love, adore, and appreciate your fiance any less.

Hope this helps....

~ Vi


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## imfree (May 31, 2008)

pudgy said:


> Over the past year or so, I've learned so much from the Dimensions community. In the beginning, I was ashamed of my feeling towards big women, namely, that they too could be beautiful; now, I went so far as to post a public note to my college about my thoughts on the matter. I used to be afraid of fat and its evils; now I understand the media and cultural taint on facts that the majority of people will never hear. Heck, I've simply become more educated on the thoughts of women, ideas on sexuality, and the world in general.
> 
> But last night I had to do some hard thinking and thus came to some equally hard conclusions. For all the good Dimensions does - the truth-telling, the esteem-boosting, the community-building - for all the good it does, it can be downright poisonous as well. Perhaps the example I feel most passionate about is the devaluing of women. It's kind of a paradox, actually. Women, scared to death of the weight, size, and shape, meekly and humbly post pictures to dozen of threads (Belly Hang, Sexiest Pics Naked, Sexiest Pics Clothed, Skinniest and Fatties, Show Your Face, Most Recent Pic, etc...). To their incredible surprise they are loved, admired, almost famed.
> 
> ...



Hang in there, Pudgy, you'll get there. It is wise and honorable for you to
seek such a change from within, with God's help. Physical disability and
major life-change events have rendered me unable to use images for
sexual purposes. I find a remarkable freedom in being able to appreciate a 
woman's beauty without being sexually influenced by it.


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## wrestlingguy (May 31, 2008)

pudgy said:


> The fact is, these women are still - believe it or not - women.



Yeah, and part of what they deserve, when they post pics here, is admiration......someone telling them that they're pretty, they're sexy, they stir something up in your soul.

They don't hear that a lot outside of Dims. Not saying it's right, just saying what is. Hell, Carla's pics even show up on sites like Ebaums World, where her pics are there for the rest of the world to poke fun at, those who don't appreciate what we do. Carla lives Ebaums World every day, that's why she needs to hear from me (and others) how pretty & sexy she is.

I spent a lot of time early on in Dims talking to the girls with websites spme paysites, some not), asking why they had them. The answers ranged from the money (for their kids, who had fathers that were incompetent, on drugs or just scumbags, to girls who needed the $$ to continue their education), for relationships with their admirers, and some just for their egos, who needed to hear that they had a beautiful face evenif they DIDN'T lose the weight, and that their bodies were sexier than what the rest of the world tells them.

One of the things I've learned over the past year about my relationship with Carla is that Asshley has nothing to do with my marriage. I support her with her work, as her photographer, etc. I see the messages sent to her through MySpace and her website. Let me ask *you*, should Carla feel guilty because guys message her every day telling her what they would do to/for her if they were in *MY* shoes? It took some time for me to understand that, but when our heads hit the pillow every night in the same bed, she knows how I feel, and vice versa.

If you're feeling that guilty, it's okay.....it's a sign of your love for your fiance.
That is admirable, even if she knows nothing about it. Realizations take time, yours may just be some time off.


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## Dr. Feelgood (May 31, 2008)

What Vi said. And don't knock lust: without it, you wouldn't be here and neither would I. Despite the Victorian notions of a pure love untainted by fleshly desires, there has to be something to bring two bodies together, and that means an attraction to bodies. You can't be held responsible for everything you _feel_; that's largely a question of hormones and beyond your control. Just try to be wise and compassionate in what you _do_.


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## olwen (May 31, 2008)

I agree with Violet. Your appreciation of the flesh doesn't detract from your fiance's beauty or you appreciation of her flesh. You've just got to make her understand that. Why should her lack of self esteem make you feel guilty. Why should your libido make you feel guilty? What good is this kind of guilty really?

As far as this site and the pics here are concerned, is see them as empowering. So often we are told we should be invisible and here is a site that says it's okay to let it all hang out. How freeing is that? Anyone who doesn't want to post doesn't have to and anyone who does post knows perfectly well what that means and is okay with it. 




> If women truly have the inherent, intrinsic worth and beauty that this website implies - if not explicitly states - then don't you think that it should be shown by not supporting them showing off their bodies for the world to see?



What does female sexuality really mean to you if you think we are devaluing ourselves by showing off our bodies? Tho we may be sweet people our sexuality is not a marker of purely innocent romantic love whose purpose is meant to inspire only holy procreation and not lust. We are all only human. Why should this be the female sexauality default? 

My worth and value to society is dependent on more than the degree to which I show my flesh. No woman's worth is dependent only on that. In other words, I and every other woman have more dimensions to us than a degree of nakedness and that degree of nakedness shouldn't have much to do with all the other dimensions that make us women. Do you really think a woman who _wants _to show her body doesn't have anything else to offer society? Really? 

If that is your only criterion for determining a woman's moral worth then you must hate clothing catalogs, sexy ads, medical books with pictures in them, or any woman who leaves her house showing any amount of flesh whatsoever. I am more than the sum of my clothes or lack of them, and I don't see how the degree to which I show my flesh should affect something like my intelligence or my values. We should be able to inspire more than lust in you.


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## BothGunsBlazing (May 31, 2008)

I did some *hard* thinking last night as well, if you know what I am saying. Whilst browsing the paysite board. I was like mmm .. lust.

But, seriously though. Not everyone is ashamed of their bodies and it is possible to look at pictures of women one would deem attractive and have sexual thoughts and still have full on respect for them. I can understand your issues because of having a fiance and all, but damn!


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## Blockierer (May 31, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> I did some *hard* thinking last night as well, if you know what I am saying. Whilst browsing the paysite board. I was like mmm .. lust.



Paysite board? What the hell is that?


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## BothGunsBlazing (May 31, 2008)

Blockierer said:


> Paysite board? What the hell is that?



I don't know .. it was here just a minute ago .. ooh, wait, let me wipe the spooge from my monitor .. there it is!


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## Renaissance Woman (May 31, 2008)

I haven't ever "meekly and humbly" posted any pics of myself, and I sure as hell am not afraid of my own body. You don't want to look at me lustfully? Fine, but don't assume that it upsets me, devalues me, or that every other guy should follow your "superior" example. 

I will assume you find your fiancee sexually attractive. From what you're saying, you shouldn't have thought she was until after you got to know her. It simply doesn't work that way, and we all know it. For all the single women, nobody should think they're attractive until AFTER they have a boyfriend, and then only he should think so. Please explain to me how in the hell that would work.

I've already had the rest of my life to contribute to society nonsexually, and I've done a damn fine job of it. I've already had the rest of my life to have guys (and gals) tell me that I wasn't sexually attractive. If you feel guilty about thinking I am, then see ya, let the door hit you in the ass as you leave.

Here's a picture of me from the panty party at the recent memorial day bash. Feel free to not lust over it. 
View attachment panty.jpg


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## Blockierer (May 31, 2008)

@Renaissance Woman
How did you do that? Now I feel my trousers don't fit!?


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## JayInBuff (May 31, 2008)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> Speaking for myself... the last time I checked, no one was twisting MY arm around my back and forcing me to post pictures of myself. I do that willingly.



I completely agree. I didn't want to do this but...










Post more pics.


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## Littleghost (May 31, 2008)

Renaissance Woman said:


> I haven't ever "meekly and humbly" posted any pics of myself, and I sure as hell am not afraid of my own body. You don't want to look at me lustfully? Fine, but don't assume that it upsets me, devalues me, or that every other guy should follow your "superior" example.



I've always had a sneaky suspicion that chivalry was just chauvinism's better groomed brother. Maybe mom & pop shouldn't have named them so similarly.



> I will assume you find your fiancee sexually attractive. From what you're saying, you shouldn't have thought she was until after you got to know her. It simply doesn't work that way, and we all know it. For all the single women, nobody should think they're attractive until AFTER they have a boyfriend, and then only he should think so. Please explain to me how in the hell that would work.



He's not sharing his secrets on quantum physics, that's what. Very selfish.



> I've already had the rest of my life to contribute to society nonsexually, and I've done a damn fine job of it. I've already had the rest of my life to have guys (and gals) tell me that I wasn't sexually attractive. If you feel guilty about thinking I am, then see ya, let the door hit you in the ass as you leave.
> 
> Here's a picture of me from the panty party at the recent memorial day bash. Feel free to not lust over it.
> View attachment 43341



I'd write something insightful and thorough about all this, but the ladies are doing a fine job, plus your pic reminds me that I need to practice my wolf whistle.


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## Violet_Beauregard (May 31, 2008)

JayInBuff said:


> I completely agree. I didn't want to do this but...
> 
> 
> 
> ...






Oooooh... ooookaaaayyy.... since you're holding a gun to my head....


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## JayInBuff (Jun 2, 2008)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> Oooooh... ooookaaaayyy.... since you're holding a gun to my head....



See, it's totally voluntary. Great pics VB. I don't think I can get enough.


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## angel-1 (Jun 2, 2008)

Renaissance Woman said:


> I haven't ever "meekly and humbly" posted any pics of myself, and I sure as hell am not afraid of my own body. You don't want to look at me lustfully? Fine, but don't assume that it upsets me, devalues me, or that every other guy should follow your "superior" example.
> 
> I will assume you find your fiancee sexually attractive. From what you're saying, you shouldn't have thought she was until after you got to know her. It simply doesn't work that way, and we all know it. For all the single women, nobody should think they're attractive until AFTER they have a boyfriend, and then only he should think so. Please explain to me how in the hell that would work.
> 
> ...



Oooooh, she's pretty:smitten::smitten::smitten:


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## angel-1 (Jun 2, 2008)

I've never considered what I do here as oogling, to me that word sounds like the actions of a really creepy person, you know like BothGunsBlazing and his insatiable desire to put his lust in you. But I ain't hatin'!!! You go right ahead and put your lust in whoever you want, just makes sure you're insurance is paid up. Pudgy, I understand where you're coming from but as a guy, I gotta keep it real. I'M A GUY!!!!!!!!! If I have access to pics of hot ladies (wuz up Violet) I'm gonna look. Can't help it. I don't think I'm gonna burn in hell for it. I don't think any of us will. Well, maybe BothGunsBlazing, but that's because he oogles when he should be admiring. Still, Hey Violet, with all the sexy women here, in particular that super sweet Goddess of hips, lips and finguhtips, Violet, can you blame him for oogling? Can any of us be blamed for spreading some oogles around? You know what? Damn it all to hell, let us all join BothGunsBlazing and blaze a oogling trail that will make the world a better place. Where men, women and children all over the world can bask in each other's oogl....ness!!! Let's all join hands, well, our free hand, and do what ooglers do. Can't we all just oogle along? Oh, before I forget, Hey Violet:wubu::wubu::wubu::wubu::wubu:


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## Wagimawr (Jun 2, 2008)

Renaissance Woman said:


> Here's a picture of me from the panty party at the recent memorial day bash. Feel free to not lust over it.
> View attachment 43341


All the single people, and I'm sure, some of the creepy married ones, thank you for this.

 (and if I may say, OM NOM NOM. that is all.)

does that count as lust?


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## Violet_Beauregard (Jun 2, 2008)

Hey Angel!! :kiss2:

Sweetie, I have NO problem with oogling AT ALL. Feel free!! I just think Pudgy needs to realize that oogling us ladies, doesn't mean he loves his fiance any less. Angel, you're married... does looking at my pics mean you think any less of your wife?? NO!!

Commence with the oogling.....

:wubu::wubu:




angel-1 said:


> I've never considered what I do here as oogling, to me that word sounds like the actions of a really creepy person, you know like BothGunsBlazing and his insatiable desire to put his lust in you. But I ain't hatin'!!! You go right ahead and put your lust in whoever you want, just makes sure you're insurance is paid up. Pudgy, I understand where you're coming from but as a guy, I gotta keep it real. I'M A GUY!!!!!!!!! If I have access to pics of hot ladies (wuz up Violet) I'm gonna look. Can't help it. I don't think I'm gonna burn in hell for it. I don't think any of us will. Well, maybe BothGunsBlazing, but that's because he oogles when he should be admiring. Still, Hey Violet, with all the sexy women here, in particular that super sweet Goddess of hips, lips and finguhtips, Violet, can you blame him for oogling? Can any of us be blamed for spreading some oogles around? You know what? Damn it all to hell, let us all join BothGunsBlazing and blaze a oogling trail that will make the world a better place. Where men, women and children all over the world can bask in each other's oogl....ness!!! Let's all join hands, well, our free hand, and do what ooglers do. Can't we all just oogle along? Oh, before I forget, Hey Violet:wubu::wubu::wubu::wubu::wubu:


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## Ruby Ripples (Jun 2, 2008)

I think your post is very wrong in so many ways but they've been answered on the other posts on the thread here. One thing though.. I do feel YOU have some serious guilt issues about being on this site doing the ogling and getting hard ons at the fat women. Not just women, but fat women. With the whole tone of your post one thing kept popping into my head.... "his fiancee isnt fat". Of course she might be an ssbbw for all i know, but I just have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of your feelings of guilt and ideas about OUR self-esteem and self-worth are tied up in some kind of shame you have? IF I am right, then I think you have a lot of thinking to do, since your feelings of lust toward fat female bodies won't just disappear suddenly. You say how devastated your fiancee would be if she knew you were on this site, yet here you still are... So it must be a HUGE draw for you. I'll bet my life that even if you DO make a big farewell, you'll still be here as a lurker.

Your last paragraph is so utterly patronising and chauvenistic, that I'm frankly stunned. Who are you to wish us ONE pair of eyes to gaze upon us or whatever you said? I wouldn't have been surprised if you had next suggested that we all go into purdah so you CAN'T ogle us. 

My self-esteem-o-meter needle wouldn't flicker if 500 men were masturbating to my pics and sending me flowery compliments to my belly hang photo, or if not one was. It's fun to post pics here and I'm sure that is why the vast majority of women here do, or because they find a liberation in being able to show their voluptuosity after having felt compelled to hide it before. It's not usually about self esteem, it's more about liberation. But you know what? If some people DO gain in self-esteem just from posting pics and receiving compliments, then hooray for them!

I feel like im rambling now, lol, so will stop. I just think basically that your whole post is way more about your own guilt issues of needing to look at fat women online, than about any of our self-worth or esteem.


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## mergirl (Jun 2, 2008)

imfree said:


> Hang in there, Pudgy, you'll get there. It is wise and honorable for you to
> seek such a change from within, with God's help. Physical disability and
> major life-change events have rendered me unable to use images for
> sexual purposes. I find a remarkable freedom in being able to appreciate a
> woman's beauty without being sexually influenced by it.


But isnt sex and sexuality an intrinsic and natural part of the beauty of being a human? Wouldnt it be a pretty flat and boring life to not lust after people and to not find beauty in thier bodies. Even if you chose a monk like existence then surely nature will over ride your brain and you will have sexual feelings anyway even if you dont act on them. The last time i looked (i do because its nice to be turned on and makes me remember i am a sexual human being and still alive!) there were both men and women showing thier bellies here..and i believe that this can be just as liberating and a sexual an experience for the ones posting as it is for the people who look at the images.
Fair enough though, you dont have to look and if that makes you feel more pure or whatever then good on you. Its your life and you are entitled to do as you will..
as for me i shall apreciate beautiful bodies, on here, when walking down the street, while watching tv or where ever i happen to see them. YUM! Beauty IS only skin deep but until you get the chance to peel back the layers of someone (in a non canabalistic sense) and get to know thier inner beauty, there is no harm in being a wee bit shallow.. its nice on the eyes. Plus... i would be chuffed to bits if i knew someone was looking at me and thinking i was hot! I'm sure most people would be!
yum yum and thrice yum and more fool those who shut thier eyes!!

Everyone!! The body show revolution starts here!!.. erm.. please..

xmer


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## mergirl (Jun 2, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


> All the single people, and I'm sure, some of the creepy married ones, thank you for this.
> 
> (and if I may say, OM NOM NOM. that is all.)
> 
> does that count as lust?


erm,..exactly!! this is what i'm talking about!

xmer


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## mergirl (Jun 2, 2008)

Blockierer said:


> @Renaissance Woman
> How did you do that? Now I feel my trousers don't fit!?


hmm i feel that too.. and i dont even have a cock!!! weird! lmao


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## Ruby Ripples (Jun 2, 2008)

mergirl said:


> hmm i feel that too.. and i dont even have a cock!!! weird! lmao



LMAO! 


(lengthening post to at least ten characters )


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## Wagimawr (Jun 2, 2008)

well, now I know what the Scots ladies think about sex and/or lust

That's it, I'm fuckin' going.


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## mergirl (Jun 2, 2008)

Ruby Ripples said:


> LMAO!
> 
> 
> (lengthening post to at least ten characters )


erm, maby its just a really big "wide on"...
too crude?
probably! lmao

xmer


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## mergirl (Jun 2, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


> well, now I know what the Scots ladies think about sex and/or lust
> 
> That's it, I'm fuckin' going.


yes! come. please do. In any sense of the word. lmao

xmer

ps. you will love our haggis!


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## mergirl (Jun 2, 2008)

p.s my hair is a mess and this was the first pic i hurriedly took on my cam to illustrate a point..so don't judge me!!! lmao

xmer (sex n body lovin since 1990ish) 

View attachment shock!!.jpg


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## angel-1 (Jun 2, 2008)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> Hey Angel!! :kiss2:
> 
> Sweetie, I have NO problem with oogling AT ALL. Feel free!! I just think Pudgy needs to realize that oogling us ladies, doesn't mean he loves his fiance any less. Angel, you're married... does looking at my pics mean you think any less of your wife?? NO!!
> 
> ...



Actually, my wife, God bless her, gets a kick out of me being here. Every once in a while she'll look over my shoulder and comments on the ladies, btw Violet, in her next life, she wants your body, and so do I. Anyway, we both think it's healthy for our relationship. Neither one of us is delusional. I know when she's out, she looks at other guys, she knows when I'm out, I'm lookin' at the ladies. Hell, sometimes she'll point them out. "Oh look, she's pretty" or "Look baby, big booty ahead". As long as we don't cross that line, it's all gravy. And I love gravy:eat2::eat2::eat2:. Ms. Ruby, I'm waiting for some new pics, what's the hold up? Don't you care about me anymore?


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## mergirl (Jun 2, 2008)

well now i just feel dirty..i blame turning 30!!
haha.. only joking.. i was away for some ME time!! haha

xmer (balloons sold seperately) 

View attachment shame.jpg


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## Violet_Beauregard (Jun 2, 2008)

There is my point exactly.... you both feel it's healthy and you both realize that you're only human and both of you is going to look... LOOK...... THAT is what I want Pudgy to realize... that LOOKIN' ain't DOIN'.... and there's nothing wrong with appreciating someone that you feel is attractive.

BTW... in our next lives... you and your wife can have my body... 




angel-1 said:


> Actually, my wife, God bless her, gets a kick out of me being here. Every once in a while she'll look over my shoulder and comments on the ladies, btw Violet, in her next life, she wants your body, and so do I. *Anyway, we both think it's healthy for our relationship. Neither one of us is delusional. I know when she's out, she looks at other guys, she knows when I'm out, I'm lookin' at the ladies. *Hell, sometimes she'll point them out. "Oh look, she's pretty" or "Look baby, big booty ahead". *As long as we don't cross that line, it's all gravy*. And I love gravy:eat2::eat2::eat2:. Ms. Ruby, I'm waiting for some new pics, what's the hold up? Don't you care about me anymore?


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## Fyreflyintheskye (Jun 2, 2008)

pudgy said:


> And thus my penis rises and falls due to the ascribed beauty I place on them...




I'm having these vicious sneezing fits at the moment and was reading your post. Do you know how painful the laugh+sneeze combination can be? Just taking a line you wrote completely out of context... got the mental image of castle drawbridge in my head; must be caught on something because it's really stuck in there. 

As for the post, itself, I think I can understand what you're alluding to... I don't feel cheapened by the photos I post here (granted, I'm not a webmodel, plus very few of mine show much on this site) and I don't think anyone else does, either. Maybe the insecure people feel pressured into posting photos for praise and acknowledgment, but I believe the majority of us do it voluntarily for fun. Perhaps you're putting a little too much worry into it. I don't think there's harm in you here ogling women if you have a bride-to-be, either. You're just showing admiration. Your own guilt really has nothing to do with us, so... 

penis drawbridges lmao :happy: lolol


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## Violet_Beauregard (Jun 2, 2008)

Pudgy... now that you've read some of the posts... can you update on what you think about being here? I'm rather curious about this now...

Thanks....

~ Vi


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## Fyreflyintheskye (Jun 2, 2008)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> Pudgy... now that you've read some of the posts... can you update on what you think about being here? I'm rather curious about this now...
> 
> Thanks....
> 
> ~ Vi



hear, hear on that


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## Tina (Jun 2, 2008)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> Married, single, engaged.... whatever one's situation may be..... since when is it a bad thing to appreciate a woman's beauty? You're looking at pictures on a screen! You're not engaging in a physical relationship with these women... ie cheating on your fiance!


I agree, as long as it's not affecting the relationship, as in someone who spends a disproportional time oggling when they could be with their actual undressed spouse, or as in someone with a sex addiction. I mean, we all look, don't we? Single or in a committed relationship, we don't go around with blinders on. I don't care that my husband looks, but I do expect him to be respectful about it. I've experienced what it's like (with a different partner) to have my guy look at other women like she's steak and he's hungry, while he barely pays attention to me, and it feels like shit. I'll never tolerate that again.

So I guess it's a question of balance and just what the particular situation is. And I think we're all aware that people will look at us when we post our pictures. I was aware that people would look at me when I was in the Dimensions print mag. It really hit home when I realized I was on the cover and it was being sold at Borders. Boy, did I get nervous and excited for a few minutes there!!


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## Violet_Beauregard (Jun 2, 2008)

Exactly!! Actually, that second statement could be pretty much said about everything in life.



Tina said:


> I agree, as long as it's not affecting the relationship, as in someone who spends a disproportional time oggling when they could be with their actual undressed spouse, or as in someone with a sex addiction. I mean, we all look, don't we? Single or in a committed relationship, we don't go around with blinders on. *I don't care that my husband looks, but I do expect him to be respectful about it.* I've experienced what it's like (with a different partner) to have my guy look at other women like she's steak and he's hungry, while he barely pays attention to me, and it feels like shit. I'll never tolerate that again.
> 
> *So I guess it's a question of balance and just what the particular situation is*.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Jun 2, 2008)

oh and pudgy .. do you mind if I use those naked pictures you posted of yourself as my computer wallpaper while we're at it? I mean, I just thought I'd ask.


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## mergirl (Jun 2, 2008)

ShakenBakeSharleen said:


> I'm having these vicious sneezing fits at the moment and was reading your post. Do you know how painful the laugh+sneeze combination can be? Just taking a line you wrote completely out of context... got the mental image of castle drawbridge in my head; must be caught on something because it's really stuck in there.
> 
> As for the post, itself, I think I can understand what you're alluding to... I don't feel cheapened by the photos I post here (granted, I'm not a webmodel, plus very few of mine show much on this site) and I don't think anyone else does, either. Maybe the insecure people feel pressured into posting photos for praise and acknowledgment, but I believe the majority of us do it voluntarily for fun. Perhaps you're putting a little too much worry into it. I don't think there's harm in you here ogling women if you have a bride-to-be, either. You're just showing admiration. Your own guilt really has nothing to do with us, so...
> 
> penis drawbridges lmao :happy: lolol


yeah!! wait a minuite?? where the hell is MY "praise and acknowledgment"!!! lmao.. 
it took a lot for me to post those pics!! well a click of my mouse and balloon aranging!!!
gosh darn ye all the whole bunch of ye!!!
lmao

xx


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## Tina (Jun 2, 2008)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> Exactly!! Actually, that second statement could be pretty much said about everything in life.


I agree, Vi, and it's really part of my own personal philosophy, the balance/yin-yang thing. Let's say it's more of a goal, as I'm far from mastering it.


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## Violet_Beauregard (Jun 2, 2008)

Well, unfortunately it's not an easy thing. I'm far from mastering it myself, but I sure try and keep things balanced. But life is constantly throwing me curveballs! 



Tina said:


> I agree, Vi, and it's really part of my own personal philosophy, the balance/yin-yang thing. Let's say it's more of a goal, as I'm far from mastering it.


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## imfree (Jun 2, 2008)

mergirl said:


> But isnt sex and sexuality an intrinsic and natural part of the beauty of being a human? Wouldnt it be a pretty flat and boring life to not lust after people and to not find beauty in thier bodies. Even if you chose a monk like existence then surely nature will over ride your brain and you will have sexual feelings anyway even if you dont act on them. The last time i looked (i do because its nice to be turned on and makes me remember i am a sexual human being and still alive!) there were both men and women showing thier bellies here..and i believe that this can be just as liberating and a sexual an experience for the ones posting as it is for the people who look at the images.
> Fair enough though, you dont have to look and if that makes you feel more pure or whatever then good on you. Its your life and you are entitled to do as you will..
> as for me i shall apreciate beautiful bodies, on here, when walking down the street, while watching tv or where ever i happen to see them. YUM! Beauty IS only skin deep but until you get the chance to peel back the layers of someone (in a non canabalistic sense) and get to know thier inner beauty, there is no harm in being a wee bit shallow.. its nice on the eyes. Plus... i would be chuffed to bits if i knew someone was looking at me and thinking i was hot! I'm sure most people would be!
> yum yum and thrice yum and more fool those who shut thier eyes!!
> ...



That is a great post and I totally agree with your statements
about appreciating visual beauty. I still think a man is better
off if he can enjoy the visual beauty of a woman in a picture
without having to respond sexually.


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## mergirl (Jun 2, 2008)

imfree said:


> That is a great post and I totally agree with your statements
> about appreciating visual beauty. I still think a man is better
> off if he can enjoy the visual beauty of a woman in a picture
> without having to respond sexually.


wouldnt that make him gay??

xmer


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## mergirl (Jun 2, 2008)

mergirl said:


> wouldnt that make him gay??
> 
> xmer


or at least asexual..


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## mergirl (Jun 2, 2008)

mergirl said:


> or at least asexual..


By the way, i dont mean that i think that if a guy is looking at a painting of a beautiful woman in an art gallery, he should whip his cock out and start rubbing up against it..i do think you can think "ahh she/he is beautiful" without always being turned on but i think its pretty normal to feel turned on by people at least some of the time!

xmer


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## Fyreflyintheskye (Jun 2, 2008)

imfree said:


> That is a great post and I totally agree with your statements
> about appreciating visual beauty. I still think a man is better
> off if he can enjoy the visual beauty of a woman in a picture
> without having to respond sexually.



I see your point, but raise you a 'How easily can something like that be controlled, though?' Primarily, it's a physiological response, isn't it? It's not like you men can much help it, can you? Can you, though? I'm not a man, but I hear stories  Imagine how difficult it must be for a man to consciously think, 'Oh, look at that beautiful woman. DOWN, PENIS, DOWN! How dare you challenge my intelligence by making me seem base, lusty, and primal? YOU DISGUST ME!' :doh: We're only hyoomin beanz afterall. 
________________________________________________________________
[this scene always makes me giggle]


"The penis, if you think about it, is the most enterprising engineering feat imaginable... a cantilevered structure - hydraulics, propulsion, pistons, compression, inflation, heat sensitive... practically every engineering characteristic -- towers, draw-bridges, rocket-ships -- no man-made engineering structure to match it."

'Philip,' in Peter Greenaway's _8 1/2 Women_


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## Fyreflyintheskye (Jun 2, 2008)

mergirl said:


> By the way, i dont mean that i think that if a guy is looking at a painting of a beautiful woman in an art gallery, he should whip his cock out and start rubbing up against it..i do think you can think "ahh she/he is beautiful" without always being turned on but i think its pretty normal to feel turned on by people at least some of the time!
> 
> xmer



lol, right! yes :happy: I think that's exactly it, too. Someone poked their head (no pun intended  lmao) into my office to say hi so that's kind of what I was in process of saying in many more superfluous words than your post  I think it's totally normal, too.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Jun 2, 2008)

ShakenBakeSharleen said:


> I see your point, but raise you a 'How easily can something like that be controlled, though?' Primarily, it's a physiological response, isn't it? It's not like you men can much help it, can you? Can you, though? I'm not a man, but I hear stories  Imagine how difficult it must be for a man to consciously think, 'Oh, look at that beautiful woman. DOWN, PENIS, DOWN! How dare you challenge my intelligence by making me seem base, lusty, and primal? YOU DISGUST ME!' :doh: We're only hyoomin beanz afterall.




It's an endless cycle Sharleen, it really is. See, you're a bit apprehensive at first thinking, damn these unholy images. Uh oh, something going on down there. I WILL NOT DO IT. You give it a bit of a smack and you're like, there, now stop ! .. hey, wait a sec, that felt pretty good. *repeat until no longer thinking sexual thoughts* 

there .. I overcame my desires!


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 2, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> I don't know .. it was here just a minute ago .. ooh, wait, let me wipe the spooge from my monitor .. there it is!



You know what? THAT comment is disgusting and unnecessary!


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## Tooz (Jun 2, 2008)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> Married, single, engaged.... whatever one's situation may be..... since when is it a bad thing to appreciate a woman's beauty? You're looking at pictures on a screen! You're not engaging in a physical relationship with these women... ie. cheating on your fiance! These women have CHOSEN to put out there (myself included). If we didn't want to be looked at, we wouldn't post them!



Um, ok, I have to step in here.

If my boyfriend spend a good chunk of time looking at other women and telling them how beautiful they were? Women that they could easily reach and converse with? I'd be a little worried and upset. Why? Same reason I'd love to stab women who date married men in the face repeatedly. My parents split over these kinds of things. The reality is it's one thing to see a woman on the street, look, and move on. But if you are spending a lot of time looking at pictures of other women and lavishing them, it just does not sit right with me.


Late response, but there.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Jun 2, 2008)

Oops .. double post


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## mergirl (Jun 2, 2008)

ShakenBakeSharleen said:


> lol, right! yes :happy: I think that's exactly it, too. Someone poked their head (no pun intended  lmao) into my office to say hi so that's kind of what I was in process of saying in many more superfluous words than your post  I think it's totally normal, too.


Lmao.. yeah you would never think i was a writer.. i tend to use as few and as stark words as possible!!! but yes.. i think it would be kind of hard (erm) for a guy to hide being turned on at times..but thats not to say that it cant be controlled ..or that people should behave like animals...well not all of the time!! lmao

xmer


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## BothGunsBlazing (Jun 2, 2008)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> You know what? THAT comment is disgusting and unnecessary!



Hi, Sandie. It's called a joke. I didn't know this forum is rated G. 

Now I am THRILLED that I posted it though.


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## mergirl (Jun 2, 2008)

Tooz said:


> Um, ok, I have to step in here.
> 
> If my boyfriend spend a good chunk of time looking at other women and telling them how beautiful they were? Women that they could easily reach and converse with? I'd be a little worried and upset. Why? Same reason I'd love to stab women who date married men in the face repeatedly. My parents split over these kinds of things. The reality is it's one thing to see a woman on the street, look, and move on. But if you are spending a lot of time looking at pictures of other women and lavishing them, it just does not sit right with me.
> 
> ...


i think looking and lavishing are seperate issues here though..if you look at an image of someone and find them beautiful even to the point that you feel turned on it would be a perfectly human reaction and one that cant really be controlled, so in no way could it be remotely constituted as cheating. Though i can see if you were to take it a stage further and actually communicate with the people you think are beautiful that there could be a real threat of your partner becoming jealous. 
i think the term "look but dont touch" applies here..


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## Violet_Beauregard (Jun 2, 2008)

I would tend to agree with you, but the OP didn't say he was spending excessive time... he was questioning his desire to admire their photos, in general. If he had said he was questioning the amount of time he was spending here, and if he said he was spending more time here than he was with his girlfriend, then yeah... I'd have to say he needs to back off. But from what I understood, that is not his issue.

And, for what it's worth, I've dated married men.... it's not always *our* fault there is a break up. Last I checked, there were TWO people involved, not just "the other woman". I'm not excusing myself, but it's never a walk in the park to date a married guy. And, not that it will matter, but THEY came to ME.... I didn't go looking for them. So, stab away.  I'll not say anymore... it doesn't belong in this thread.  




Tooz said:


> Um, ok, I have to step in here.
> 
> If my boyfriend spend a good chunk of time looking at other women and telling them how beautiful they were? Women that they could easily reach and converse with? I'd be a little worried and upset. Why? Same reason I'd love to stab women who date married men in the face repeatedly. My parents split over these kinds of things. The reality is it's one thing to see a woman on the street, look, and move on. But if you are spending a lot of time looking at pictures of other women and lavishing them, it just does not sit right with me.
> 
> ...


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## mergirl (Jun 2, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> Hi, Sandie. It's called a joke. I didn't know this forum is rated G.
> 
> Now I am THRILLED that I posted it though.


personally i love the word "spooge" ..it somehow reminds me of sponge bob squarepants.. so it looses all elements of mingingness!
now.."man paste" ...that is another issue COMPLETLY!!!! lmao

xmer


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## mergirl (Jun 2, 2008)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> I would tend to agree with you, but the OP didn't say he was spending excessive time... he was questioning his desire to admire their photos, in general. If he had said he was questioning the amount of time he was spending here, and if he said he was spending more time here than he was with his girlfriend, then yeah... I'd have to say he needs to back off. But from what I understood, that is not his issue.
> 
> And, for what it's worth, I've dated married men.... it's not always *our* fault there is a break up. Last I checked, there were TWO people involved, not just "the other woman". I'm not excusing myself, but it's never a walk in the park to date a married guy. And, not that it will matter, but THEY came to ME.... I didn't go looking for them. So, stab away.  I'll not say anymore... it doesn't belong in this thread.


well, just because you are married doesnt always mean you are happy with that. Though i think affairs are pretty sneaky, especially if you are the one doing the sneaking. I think that its always better to end what you started before you begin something new, otherwise you just get all confused and more hurt is caused than is needed.
I think honesty and openess are pretty essential to a relationship..though i always wondered about polygamy! lol

xmer


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 2, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> Hi, Sandie. It's called a joke. I didn't know this forum is rated G.
> 
> Now I am THRILLED that I posted it though.



Give me a break! I'm old enough to be your mother and I've heartd every word out there and I'm old enough to know what is appropriate when. 

Grow up.


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## pudgy (Jun 2, 2008)

Sorry that it took so long for me to respond, what with the server out and a crazy weekend.

Okay, I feel like this is the first thing I need to address: I do not feel guilty for finding big women attractive. If anything, I'm almost egotistical about it! Big women deserve admiration, not derision. They also deserve that admiration to be aloud, not hidden and shy and ashamed.

Second: the issue at hand is not one should be able to see a person and acknowledge whether or not he or she is attractive, even sexy. For one to say that men and women ought not do this is just ludicrous. As someone pointed out, I obviously knew my fiance was attractive before I started dating her. Beauty deserves to be seen, should be admired and pointed out.

The issue, rather, is lust. And that is my problem. Not because I have guilt issues. Not because my fiance has self-esteem issues. It is because lust is inherently selfish. Though being sexually attracted to a woman is not in itself wrong, to go to a website for the express purpose of seeing that woman for sexual pleasure is -to me, anyway - wrong. Of course I am in the absurd minority here, and I realize that. But I am surprised and bemused by the fact that this can't be agreed upon in the context of married (or almost married) relationships.

No matter how much time - little or lots - I spend here, if I am going and looking at pictures with the intent of sexual fulfillment, then that is time and sexual fulfillment that I am not finding in my spouse-to-be. If she were to be okay with me looking at those pictures (again, for the express purpose of sexual fulfillment) that wouldn't speak of her great self-esteem and our relational maturity. That would speak of intense dysfunction. A marriage relationship should be one of complete dependence on one another in every aspect of life. Love is about absolute, self_less_ surrender. But to find your jollies (to raise the drawbridge of your sexual organs) in places other than your partner is to be _selfish_ and greedy in your "love."

Now, I'll admit that the gray area is in simple admiration. And that's why I won't be leaving this site anytime soon and I may still be looking at those pictures, because women do deserve admiration. But though I obviously have no ability to judge why these women (and men) are posting pictures of themselves online, I still worry that beauty taken for granted is cheapened beauty. And I don't want to be a part of that.


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## mergirl (Jun 2, 2008)

re. wank fight between sandie and BGB.
I think BGB was just having a wee joke. Maby as you say sandie, as you have been here since before bgb began thinking about masturbation, maby its a generation gap thing? Maby todays generation find it more socially acceptable to talk about wanking? or maby its just a question of taste. Some people find it funny and some people think its disgusting..but then not everyone has the same sense of humour. BGB was perhaps being honest. I really dont think you have to protect the innocence of the paysite models because i think they ALL know that the only reason anyone signs up to thier sites is to masturbate over thier images. I think people forget this sometimes. Its pretty much a big part of porn really... 
Unless i am wrong and there are people out there who sign up to paysites just to admire the beautiful women in an almost brotherly way..you can tell me..it would be interesting to hear about.
but the last time i heard the point of "porn" was to get off sexually..
Also may i add, if anyone posts a pic of thier bellies, bits etc in any other forum there is a fair chance that they will be wanked over/or at least saved up in a wank bank for future reference..
Just something i think people should remember..

xmer


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## BothGunsBlazing (Jun 2, 2008)

... hahahah I was making a joke in the context of the thread. Gee, like, y'know. When people make fapping jokes on here when poking fun at the guys who post blatantly sexual threads for the sole purpose of getting wank material. Oh and yeah, I know I have all those other posts where I can't stop talking about my libido and I just love me some objectification of women. oh wait. those don't exist.


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## angel-1 (Jun 2, 2008)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> There is my point exactly.... you both feel it's healthy and you both realize that you're only human and both of you is going to look... LOOK...... THAT is what I want Pudgy to realize... that LOOKIN' ain't DOIN'.... and there's nothing wrong with appreciating someone that you feel is attractive.
> 
> BTW... in our next lives... you and your wife can have my body...



HELL YEAH!!!! Thank you!!!! I promise we will take very good care of it.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 2, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


> All the single people, and I'm sure, some of the creepy married ones, thank you for this.
> 
> (and if I may say, OM NOM NOM. that is all.)
> 
> does that count as lust?



Creepy married one, right here, representin'


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 2, 2008)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> You know what? THAT comment is disgusting and unnecessary!



BGB is young, and he's having some harmless fun. 

I see little difference in his comment here, versus some of the factually-based information found in the "Good Vibrations" thread that I'm rather enthusiastically subscribed to (and that you've contributed to). Some would say discussion of one's favorite type of vibrator is TMI. I wouldn't say that ....  .... but some would.


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## Spanky (Jun 2, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> Creepy married one, right here, representin'



So how YOU doin' Creeptown??


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 2, 2008)

Spanky said:


> So how YOU doin' Creeptown??



The only body fluids that I'm wiping from my monitor are those generated by my snot-nosed two-year-old. 

So all in all, I'd say peachy!


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## olwen (Jun 2, 2008)

pudgy said:


> Sorry that it took so long for me to respond, what with the server out and a crazy weekend.
> 
> Okay, I feel like this is the first thing I need to address: I do not feel guilty for finding big women attractive. If anything, I'm almost egotistical about it! Big women deserve admiration, not derision. They also deserve that admiration to be aloud, not hidden and shy and ashamed.
> 
> ...



Oh my montanna, What you're saying is that since you're in a relationship there is no need to masturbate or have lust filled thoughts about anyone other than your significant other. Bull pocky. Not only is that absurd, it's unrealistic. Thinking about other people or looking at pictures of other people while masturbating doesn't make you a cheater and it doesn't make it wrong if either one of you approve of said self-fulfilment without the other. It makes you human. Masturbation is not something you give up because you've found another outlet, it's something you do _in addition to_ this other outlet, it's even something people do together. Lust is only a sin if you force your lust on someone who doesn't want to have it. It's completely unrealistic for any one to expect their partner to not look or not be turned on by other people. In the end they're still gonna be in your bed won't they? 

Pudgy, you will have plenty of chances to have special time with the fiance. If this bothers you all that much, photoshop her head onto other people's bodies, but really, you're just causing yourself unnecessary worry.


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## saucywench (Jun 2, 2008)

pudgy said:


> A marriage relationship should be one of complete dependence on one another in every aspect of life.


Erm, no. If you truly believe that constitutes a healthy relationship, you are setting yourself up for a world of trouble. Not to mention misery.


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Jun 2, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


> All the single people, and I'm sure, some of the creepy married ones, thank you for this.


 
You and TJ can just stay there and be creepy. Us closet sociopathic marrieds will be over here, fretfully enjoying the site in a (hopefully) non-creepy fashion.  

With some rare exceptions here and elsewhere, men and women have very different opinions when it comes to what porn they like, or what pictures they find erotic. My wife buys me a copy of XL Girls magazine (featuring primarily busty BBWs, some bordering on SSBBW) but then scrutinizes all the women in it as ugly. For every woman who says a man objectifies women viewing porn, I will say that women can inflict just as strong if not stronger viciousness against an anonymous naked or semi-naked model they don't even know. A guy looks at a picture of an older woman and sees MILF material. His girlfriend/wife will point out how ugly her C-section scar is and how fake her tan looks. It does lend credence to the argument that some men are very superficial, but sometimes the ladies go wayy too deep. I am certain opinions will differ, and it's not some pro-porn manifesto. Just what I've seen in my years with women who were open-minded enough to at least consider pornography as something to pay attention to.



Ruby Ripples said:


> Your last paragraph is so utterly patronising and chauvenistic, that I'm frankly stunned. Who are you to wish us ONE pair of eyes to gaze upon us or whatever you said? I wouldn't have been surprised if you had next suggested that we all go into purdah so you CAN'T ogle us.
> 
> My self-esteem-o-meter needle wouldn't flicker if 500 men were masturbating to my pics and sending me flowery compliments to my belly hang photo, or if not one was. It's fun to post pics here and I'm sure that is why the vast majority of women here do, or because they find a liberation in being able to show their voluptuosity after having felt compelled to hide it before. It's not usually about self esteem, it's more about liberation. But you know what? If some people DO gain in self-esteem just from posting pics and receiving compliments, then hooray for them!
> 
> I feel like im rambling now, lol, so will stop. I just think basically that your whole post is way more about your own guilt issues of needing to look at fat women online, than about any of our self-worth or esteem.


I think the picture threads are a great way for women and men to show off parts of their body that mainstream society seems to prefer being hidden. As with any other group, the positive vs. negative responses will vary. Some store that image in the wank bank, others put it in a category of "the goggles, zey do nothing". I feel the same about any model or actress I see in VF, Cosmo or otherwise. After seeing some of the YouTube articles on how heavily edited magazine models are via computer, it's refreshing to see minimally or non-altered pictures here. It makes the ladies seem real instead of just these ephemeral plump beauties.


mergirl said:


> But isnt sex and sexuality an intrinsic and natural part of the beauty of being a human? Wouldnt it be a pretty flat and boring life to not lust after people and to not find beauty in thier bodies. Even if you chose a monk like existence then surely nature will over ride your brain and you will have sexual feelings anyway even if you dont act on them. The last time i looked (i do because its nice to be turned on and makes me remember i am a sexual human being and still alive!) there were both men and women showing thier bellies here..and i believe that this can be just as liberating and a sexual an experience for the ones posting as it is for the people who look at the images.
> Fair enough though, you dont have to look and if that makes you feel more pure or whatever then good on you. Its your life and you are entitled to do as you will..
> as for me i shall apreciate beautiful bodies, on here, when walking down the street, while watching tv or where ever i happen to see them. YUM! Beauty IS only skin deep but until you get the chance to peel back the layers of someone (in a non canabalistic sense) and get to know thier inner beauty, there is no harm in being a wee bit shallow.. its nice on the eyes. Plus... i would be chuffed to bits if i knew someone was looking at me and thinking i was hot! I'm sure most people would be!
> yum yum and thrice yum and more fool those who shut thier eyes!!
> xmer


Cannot rep again, dammit. I agree with you 120%. It's rather sad that the one thing that often makes us feel so fulfillingly human is the source of our greatest guilt and stress.




Sandie_Zitkus said:


> You know what? THAT comment is disgusting and unnecessary!


 And you having "Who the fuck are you?" in your tagline isn't a tad vulgar? Pot, meet kettle.



mergirl said:


> personally i love the word "spooge" ..it somehow reminds me of sponge bob squarepants.. so it looses all elements of mingingness!
> now.."man paste" ...that is another issue COMPLETLY!!!! lmao
> 
> xmer


I prefer the terms Wang Butter, Pee-Pee Puke or Jerkens Hand Lotion.



pudgy said:


> A marriage relationship should be one of complete dependence on one another in every aspect of life. Love is about absolute, self_less_ surrender. But to find your jollies (to raise the drawbridge of your sexual organs) in places other than your partner is to be _selfish_ and greedy in your "love."


 I think it is completely unrealistic to expect NOT to be aroused by other women. Acting and thinking are two different things (unless we're talking Jesus here, in which case thought crimes pervade all). The fact you have to use some little idiom to describe getting a hard-on implies a level of discomfort I think.

Humans ARE selfish, Lust IS greedy. Sex is greedy. It's animalistic, biological and difficult to control through mental or physical restrictions. It's what makes being human the great challenge. You're falling victim to that old chestnut about romantic altruism being a real, long-term expectation. I don't know if you've been married before, or have been in a long-term relationship. To me it sounds as if you haven't, or at the very least just got through with Promise-Keepers or Pre-Cana conferencing. It smacks of unreality. Looking lustfully at another woman isn't some slam against the woman you love and also lust after--at the end of the day, she's your reality. Now if you're walking down the street or showing her photos pointing out attributes in other women and voicing or wishing that your paramour shared these qualities, then you can talk about objectification or lack of respect.

As a married man who realizes that marriage is a process as well as a commitment, and a difficult journey over time no matter how good or bad things get, I urge you to seriously think about what Dims means to you, what the FA attitude means to you and how you intend to reconcile it with your fiancee, otherwise I see you having a great deal of painful guilt and sadness in the years ahead. I truly wish the contrary for you, because going into a new relationship with this baggage is inherently self-destructive for both of you.

That being said, if you say goodbye, then go. Going to lurking mode isn't going to assuage your concerns.


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## superodalisque (Jun 2, 2008)

pudgy said:


> Over the past year or so, I've learned so much from the Dimensions community. In the beginning, I was ashamed of my feeling towards big women, namely, that they too could be beautiful; now, I went so far as to post a public note to my college about my thoughts on the matter. I used to be afraid of fat and its evils; now I understand the media and cultural taint on facts that the majority of people will never hear. Heck, I've simply become more educated on the thoughts of women, ideas on sexuality, and the world in general.
> 
> But last night I had to do some hard thinking and thus came to some equally hard conclusions. For all the good Dimensions does - the truth-telling, the esteem-boosting, the community-building - for all the good it does, it can be downright poisonous as well. Perhaps the example I feel most passionate about is the devaluing of women. It's kind of a paradox, actually. Women, scared to death of the weight, size, and shape, meekly and humbly post pictures to dozen of threads (Belly Hang, Sexiest Pics Naked, Sexiest Pics Clothed, Skinniest and Fatties, Show Your Face, Most Recent Pic, etc...). To their incredible surprise they are loved, admired, almost famed.
> 
> ...



hmmm beautiful and thoughtful post! i understand how you feel to a point. i have a similar struggle myself. not because i think nudity etc... is bad. i'm an artist and i have a different take on nudity. i'm definitely not prudish. i adore the fat female body. i love celebrating it. i'm not a website model etc... i love expressing my erotic nature in various ways and i love seeing other women with that confidence. its good to show that we as fat women and men have a sensual ID. thats been discounted and hidden for so long. even most of us still don't think we have one. sometimes we take an interesting road to get there.

the only problem is that we live in a society that doesn't really allow a woman in particular to own her own body and sensuality. if you embrace your freedom as a sensual being you often get branded as an object. love, appreciation, respect and sexual desire can go hand in hand. but especially in america it seems to be all about power. who serves who, who controls who. who is winning in relationships and sexual coupling seems to be very important. but what we've forgotten is that if one person loses in the relationship, everyone has lost.

generally women do get degraded. they are almost always portrayed in a way that is politically submissive. if money changes hands there are many who get titilated by the idea of making a woman do whatever they want for the money. she is a dirty whore that they can treat in any way they want. that idea is a big fantasy right now for a lot of guys and i often wonder why it has to be that way. even the women who do it for the money are underpaid and the lions share of their earnings still go to the men that no one would pay to look at. the only time women get to be powerful is when its a game and they get to "pretend" that they are in control. then it looks cute and sexy but it has nothing to do with actual power. there is always someone there dictating exactly how they want the woman to appear powerful. what she should wear while doing it, what she should say. there is always some sort of social script reigning her in. if its not in a way thats palatable the partner will often opt out.

i used to post nudes etc... but a lot of people didn't take them for how they were meant. its depressing when someone misses your entire message--which is that you agree that your fat body is beautiful, and thank you for the appreciation. i appreciate you. you aren't odd. you aren't a freak if you find me attractiive. i'm a work of art. it was a love thang but most people only saw it only as a sex thang. 

as for cheating on your fiancee, only you can decide about that. its different levels for different people. but let me say what i think personally. i don't think its cheating if a man recognizes beauty if he does not cross over a certain line. if you are reaching out to try and form romantic relaltionships then its a problem. but really there is a big difference between love and just pure sexual desire. you could desire someone physically and not have any other interest in them. thats a bit of a problem too for the ladies here because often there is some confusion about that. people can get hurt if they dont understand the difference between the two. as long as thats kept straight things are fine. don't feel badly for responding to beauty with an erection. other things you find pleasureable probably elicit a similar response. i've had friends tell me that they've had them looking at beautiful landscapes etc... don't make something beautiful that nature gave you into something ugly. next thing you'll find that the sexual appreciation of your partner is a bad thing.

as for your fiancee, she shouldn't torture herself. after all it is she that you love. you asked her to marry you. she is not a fantasy, she is the real deal. women have a lot more value to men than just wanking fodder. we aren't free cooks,prostitutes, or maids. we are something much more than that. we can be part of the quest for a man to be more and get more out of life than just an animal existence, just as he can for us. your post proves that. even though you are highly attracted to her you are capable of loving her and thinking of her feelings. she is already in great shape! just always remember to keep your private fantasies private. eveyone has a right to some privacy even in a relationship. but, knowing how she feels, just don't disrespect her by bringing them out for examinination. some of the guys here who are flirting with a woman can get callous about that at times. no woman, who is interested in you, wants to know exactly how you find another women physically attractive. but i don't think you are the type to do that anyway. you seem as though you have a clue when it comes to exactly how your fiancee feels.

PS : and thank you for caring about the rest of us too thank you for giving a damn!


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## Violet_Beauregard (Jun 2, 2008)

BINGO!!!! You have hit the nail on the head!!! I could NOT have said it better myself... Thank you for getting in my head and seeing my point!! 




olwen said:


> Oh my montanna, What you're saying is that since you're in a relationship there is no need to masturbate or have lust filled thoughts about anyone other than your significant other. Bull pocky. Not only is that absurd, it's unrealistic. Thinking about other people or looking at pictures of other people while masturbating doesn't make you a cheater and it doesn't make it wrong if either one of you approve of said self-fulfilment without the other. It makes you human. Masturbation is not something you give up because you've found another outlet, it's something you do _in addition to_ this other outlet, it's even something people do together. Lust is only a sin if you force your lust on someone who doesn't want to have it. It's completely unrealistic for any one to expect their partner to not look or not be turned on by other people. In the end they're still gonna be in your bed won't they?
> 
> Pudgy, you will have plenty of chances to have special time with the fiance. If this bothers you all that much, photoshop her head onto other people's bodies, but really, you're just causing yourself unnecessary worry.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 2, 2008)

> And you having "Who the fuck are you?" in your tagline isn't a tad vulgar? Pot, meet kettle.




LMAO! That's a good one.  Are you gonna tell me you're offended? Oh if that's the case - I apologize. And I will remove it. 


Oh and this Quote you:



> I prefer the terms Wang Butter, Pee-Pee Puke or Jerkens Hand Lotion.



Isn't offensive? That's sort of screwed up value system you got there bub!

See there's one thing you don't get, I mean the young men who think this kind of talk is OK. I don't care what you say or post. It don't mean a thing to me. I've heard it all - I've seen it all, and probably done it all. No, I'm not talking about myself being disgusted by this. I'm talking about the women who send me PM's or give me REP every time I post to this garbage you guys post. It's disgusting, and honestly I think somewhere along the line someone stopped teaching manners in schools. MY father would have slapped my right across the face for saying or writing something like what you think is funny. I think you guys need a lesson in etiquette.

You wanna talk about your pee-pees and your spooge amung yourselves? Go for it. I hope it makes you happpy. But in a public forum wherere older men and women read what you post - it's disgusting.

So that's it dudes. Have at it. You guys are super cool you can post vile disgusting things and then lauigh about it in e-mail. Yes look how clever you are. Ha ha pee peep talk. I'm getting that no one gives a damn, except those who don't post because they are afraid of you guys. Lord knows why.


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## exile in thighville (Jun 2, 2008)

pudgy said:


> Over the past year or so, I've learned so much from the Dimensions community. In the beginning, I was ashamed of my feeling towards big women, namely, that they too could be beautiful; now, I went so far as to post a public note to my college about my thoughts on the matter. I used to be afraid of fat and its evils; now I understand the media and cultural taint on facts that the majority of people will never hear. Heck, I've simply become more educated on the thoughts of women, ideas on sexuality, and the world in general.
> 
> But last night I had to do some hard thinking and thus came to some equally hard conclusions. For all the good Dimensions does - the truth-telling, the esteem-boosting, the community-building - for all the good it does, it can be downright poisonous as well. Perhaps the example I feel most passionate about is the devaluing of women. It's kind of a paradox, actually. Women, scared to death of the weight, size, and shape, meekly and humbly post pictures to dozen of threads (Belly Hang, Sexiest Pics Naked, Sexiest Pics Clothed, Skinniest and Fatties, Show Your Face, Most Recent Pic, etc...). To their incredible surprise they are loved, admired, almost famed.
> 
> ...



why are you goddies so anti-sex? maybe not everyone views lust as a means to devalue. and we're all adults...if a woman "meekly" posts a pic of herself she doesn't have to be ensconsed within the fat community to know she's making a little grab for attention from the rare bloc willing to offer it. some people like to be jerked off to. and some people, right, don't realize the full implications what they're in for. but luckily, being unknowingly jerked off to in private is one of the more harmless consequences in these Scary Times For Women. i've always said there should be a disclaimer at the top of this SEXUAL INTEREST SITE warning that if you post a pic, you will be jerked off to, so think about that before you do. but i'm disgusted with how dimensions downplays the fact it's predominantly a sexual interest site and leads to posts like these from actually appalled people. we're in a meat market, folks. like a bar or anywhere else recreational-not-professional. it's not cynical, it's what you have to deal with. you can accidentally click on a porn link here. that's the place you're posting. think about it and either reconcile or don't.


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## mossystate (Jun 2, 2008)

Nothing wrong with stepping back and taking stock of what one does..or what one seeks out....howevah...seems there is more than a bit of " I am now taken and I am no longer supposed to look..so..I need to plead for women to help me feel like I am not going to miss out on anything..please..stop showing yourselves...be magically worth more in my eyes than I thought of you, oh, X number of days back..I don't want to know there is a party goin on and I can't even press my..whatever..against the glass "

There are many issues within this....issue...sure...I agree with that. I do think some people seek out attention in ways that some of them are not equipped to handle..no matter the pretty words. I just cannot agree that you are really coming at this with the ' concern ' you say you feel.....not totally...nope. Just as there are issues within the issure of posting pics..etc....there are issues within the issue of wanting to not be part of what you say is devaluing other human beings.


Oh.....those darn onions...so many layers.


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## Carrie (Jun 2, 2008)

I, for one, am very afraid of peeps and that which they emit. BGB's in particular, as I've heard it's actually acid. Like _alien blood acid_. 

Goes through a lot of monitors, that one.


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## stefanie (Jun 2, 2008)

*Pudgy*: You don't have to answer this if you think it's too personal, but I bring it up as food for thought. Is your fiancee a fat woman?


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## mossystate (Jun 2, 2008)

* edit..edit....nevermind.....had typed out something about the art work I just created on my bathroom mirror, using only my vaginal secretions and much love in my heart

...decided to keep things classy....if 96% of us only kept things calm....clean..and cool..well, do you hear those crickets....I am able to see the total of a person and what they post.....BGB is a spirited pup...* tweaks his widdle nose *....there are worse things out here.....my god....and then some


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## The Fez (Jun 2, 2008)

ugh. Arguing, internet, retarded, etc.

Pudgy: seems like you're addressing your natural instincts, can't really say anything that hasn't already been said.


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## ripley (Jun 2, 2008)

To the OP: What it comes down to is that you should do whatever is right for you. We're all trying to find our way in this world, and I applaud you for doing what you think is the right thing. Our opinions should have very little weight if something you are doing makes you feel bad and you want to change it. You know your affianced doesn't like it, and if it's something you're having doubts about yourself I give you kudos for stopping the behavior. 



Personally, I don't think it's inherently bad for a woman or a man if she inspires a boner for him. Even if she does it on purpose by posting pics. Sure, I think some women do it from a place of insecurity. I might even agree that setting up that dynamic (insecure woman, horn-dog man) is not that useful of a path for the woman or the man to go down. But people will make their own mistakes and forge their own way, and there is not a whole lot we can do about it, if we're even so prideful to think that we know better.

I've posted sexy pics before, whether here or in chat. I don't think this makes me a slut or insecure or a succubus who is drawing men from the righteous path. I'm just a fat woman who is trying to get used to being sexy to men. Maybe I (and others) overcompensate for the warped sexual view of fat women in our society. It seems there is very little middle ground for fat women's sexuality...we're either the asexual harmless plump little lady or the Wife of Bath.

I do think that women (fat, thin, old, young, whatever) who post tons of blatantly sexual pics for the attention _can_ focus too much on that. It can be addicting for a woman who goes through her day-to-day life as invisible to most men. Perhaps they are selling themselves too cheaply, but that's not my or your judgment to make.


None of the above applies to paysite models, though. That's a business, plain and simple...yes it's...biologically based, lol, but it's a business nonetheless. I think the women involved in them know this...not so sure about their patrons, though.


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## Violet_Beauregard (Jun 2, 2008)

My thoughts exactly. 

Enough already. Can we get back on topic?





Freestyle Fez said:


> *ugh. Arguing, internet, retarded, etc.*
> 
> Pudgy: seems like you're addressing your natural instincts, can't really say anything that hasn't already been said.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 2, 2008)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> My thoughts exactly.
> 
> Enough already. Can we get back on topic?



You are abosolutely right Vi. I do apologize for having this argument here.

It's over as far as I am concerned.


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## missy_blue_eyez (Jun 2, 2008)

Pudgy, it kinda seems like you are looking for reassurance for using the boards, Im getting the impression that there is an issue much deeper in this post that maybe you are not talking about. We cannot ease your guilt, only you can do that. 

I myself have, and do post pictures on these boards and I can assure you that in no sense what-so-ever do I ever feel de-valued by MY OWN ACTIONS. In all fairness, posting my pictures here on Dims have helped me personally so much on my road to self-acceptance, the oggling and gazing etc is sweet satisfaction in knowing that I am not gross, or disgusting, as what some parts of society would like me to feel and believe. I can also assure that I do not post my pictures with the sole purpose of making you question your views on lust. 

Lust, sex etc is not dirty, its not grotesque, its human, its natural, its instinctive. Trying to turn off these attributes is ludacris! You feel the way you feel about those bodies because that is what is natural to you. It is not wrong to feel this way, unless, I said earlier, there is something within your post and your actions that has not been said.

I am kind of agreeing with Ruby Ripples here, is your girlfriend not a fat-bottomed girly??? Are you a closetted FA? Or have you even taken your admiration of the pictures of these women further and crossed a line which you feel you shouldnt have and are using this post as a kind of repentance???? 

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm


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## Surlysomething (Jun 2, 2008)

Hilarity.


What was this thread about again?


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## Spanky (Jun 2, 2008)

Surlysomething said:


> Hilarity.
> 
> 
> What was this thread about again?



Musical interlude, Surly, my dear!

RELAX


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## pudgy (Jun 2, 2008)

Alright, for once and for all: no, my fiance is not fat. As I have said many-a-times, I see beauty in women of all shapes and sizes, thick and thin. No, I am not a closeted FA with guilt or shame issues. My fiance, my family, my friends, my college all know my thoughts on this issue.

Alright, now that that's through, a couple of things. My use of the Drawbridge Idiom in reference to sexual arousal, getting a boner, raising a salute, however you want to put it is not out of discomfort with sexuality but rather a reference to an earlier. Nor is my being a "goddie" doom me to being anti-sex. In fact, I'm just as sexual as the next guy, proven by the dirty rags and socks, covered in smooge or Jerkens lotion or whatever. Nor do I deny that sexuality is an essential, God-implanted, necessary part of being human.

But there is a huge logical jump from "Humans are sexual" to "Men and women should be able to sexual enjoy whomever they please." Masturbation is - by nature - selfish. Marriage should be - by nature - selfless. There is conflict here.

My point, if I could somehow boil it down, is that there is such an incredible amount of pain and heartache and brokenness because of sexuality gone bad. Skyrocketing divorce rates, sexually unfulfilled wives and husbands, affairs, etc...._it can be better than this._ And the goal, the dream, the vision that my fiance and I have for our marriage is to avoid the pain of selfish lust and live in the joy of selfless love. Yes, we both realize that to be human is to be inherently sexual and that it will be a challenge - a supreme challenge - to be faithful to one another wholly and completely. But just because it's hard doesn't mean we shouldn't try! How much of a pansy would I be if I didn't even try my best?

My deep-seated concern for the men and women who are showing up in these porn mags, websites, and Dimensions threads has nothing to do with my "missing out on the party." My party will be with my fiance in a smooge-filled bed. My concern is that that which becomes common becomes cheap. It's a simple concept called the Law of Supply and Demand. If you want to do a fascinating study, take a look at the rise of pornography versus the rise of erectile dysfunction. Quite simply, pornography can neuter a man. How can a wife compete with pixelated, sexual fantasies that she could never make come true. 

Anyway, I'm not leaving, so don't get your hopes up. I still think this is a great community and I overall love watching how men and women are transformed from when they first come to when they become part of the old gang. I don't imagine this debate will do any of us much good for the simple fact that we have completely, absolutely different worldviews. And that's okay. We don't have to all be the same to get along. All I know is that the world is screwed up and I'm doing my best to make it sense of it for myself and those around me.

Oh, and no I never went to Promise Keepers and probably never will. And organization that tries to tell me that men should have leadership over women because God ordained it that way doesn't have my vote.


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## Santaclear (Jun 2, 2008)

Pudgy, the pictures are hot. The women are hot. Deal with it.


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Jun 2, 2008)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> See there's one thing you don't get, I mean the young men who think this kind of talk is OK. I don't care what you say or post. It don't mean a thing to me. I've heard it all - I've seen it all, and probably done it all. No, I'm not talking about myself being disgusted by this. I'm talking about the women who send me PM's or give me REP every time I post to this garbage you guys post. It's disgusting, and honestly I think somewhere along the line someone stopped teaching manners in schools. MY father would have slapped my right across the face for saying or writing something like what you think is funny. I think you guys need a lesson in etiquette.
> 
> You wanna talk about your pee-pees and your spooge amung yourselves? Go for it. I hope it makes you happpy. But in a public forum wherere older men and women read what you post - it's disgusting.
> 
> So that's it dudes. Have at it. You guys are super cool you can post vile disgusting things and then lauigh about it in e-mail. Yes look how clever you are. Ha ha pee peep talk. I'm getting that no one gives a damn, except those who don't post because they are afraid of you guys. Lord knows why.


You do realize how you yourself prattle on in various other forums about your personal sex life in various degrees of detail that some of us don't care to hear? BGB's original post had a joke and believe it or not, not everyone finds it vulgar and some "older" people do get the joke. I've seen two 70-year-old ex-vets get into fights using language that makes longshoremen blush.

Maybe Conrad can install a Kaka Doodie Poopie Filter so anyone who enables it can redact the profanity to nice, easily digested PG-13 pieces.


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Jun 2, 2008)

Surlysomething said:


> Hilarity.
> 
> 
> What was this thread about again?


Yadda yadda something something Barbara Streisand . All over a mirror.


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## olwen (Jun 2, 2008)

> But there is a huge logical jump from "Humans are sexual" to "Men and women should be able to sexual enjoy whomever they please." Masturbation is - by nature - selfish. Marriage should be - by nature - selfless. There is conflict here.




I'm sorry Pudgy, but can you please clarify why you think masturbation is inherently selfish. How can it be selfish if my partner wants to see me do it or asks me to do it or wants me to do it with him. When I'm with a guy for the first time I ask him to masturbate for me so I can see what he does with his hands so I'll know how to please him. So how is that selfish?

Maybe you don't see this because you are a guy with simple parts, but for women Masturbation is a very good way, (sometimes the only way) for a woman to learn about what turns her on. I can't tell you how many of my female friends over the years have come to me asking about how they can get their partners to satisfy them or complain about how their partners don't do it right. The first thing I ask them is "do you masturbate?" and if they say no I tell them, you're gonna have to start. How can you be able to tell him what you like if you don't know yourself. That is in no way selfish. It's educational and necessary - for women anyway.


Also, what do you think "selfless love" is? I'm thinking you and I might have different ideas about that.

Instead of asking your wife to compete with your fantasies, why not ask her if she'd be willing to act them out. You will find over time that you will become bored with each other sexually. The challenge will be how to put the spark back into your sex life. Exploring fantasies is a good way to do that.


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## pudgy (Jun 2, 2008)

I'll admit that I should clarify.

It masturbation is part of your sexual experience with your partner, then great! Sex, I feel, should be a 2-person experience. If masturbation is part of that, fantastic.

Also, I agree with you (and thus disagree with my fiance, actually) that masturbation can be used for personal sexual exploration. My fiance holds that this too is inherently selfish and thus should be avoided. I argue that as long as this is done for the sake of the relationship, i.e. so I know what the heck to do while in bed, then it is beneficial and still for the sake of the two, not just the one.

So, what I guess I should say instead of the rather broad term "masturbate," is something along the lines of "sexual activities done with yourself, by yourself, for yourself." This is what I want to avoid. The reason? Because I believe that sex and it's cousins should be a two-person relational thing. The reason? At this point, I could ramble on about dysfunction, relational health, etc. But I'd rather not.

How do I even define selfless love? We Biblical studies people have a Greek word for it: _agape._ It is unconditional. It loves not expecting or needing anything in return. Thus everything I do for my fiance is done for her--including sex.

I'm sure at this point exclamation points are arising from people's heads, and they declare, "But this is unrealistic. You are human, no one can possibly love or live like this!" And I agree. But you're missing the point. I _know_ that this nigh impossible. Contrary to popular belief, I'm not dumb. But even if it's difficult, contrary to our (admitted sexual) human nature, _it does not excuse me from making it my goal. _
I will thus love the love of my life selflessly, not because I need her to do the same in return, but because I feel she deserves it. She is worthy of getting every piece of me, including my heart and my mind and my eyes and penis that has a goal of being rubbed only for her.

I guess that's what I mean.


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## olwen (Jun 2, 2008)

pudgy said:


> I'll admit that I should clarify.
> 
> It masturbation is part of your sexual experience with your partner, then great! Sex, I feel, should be a 2-person experience. If masturbation is part of that, fantastic.
> 
> ...




Pudgy you're confusing two issues here. How do I explain this....loving yourself doesn't mean you are loving your SO any less. She is uncomfortable with her own body. She is. I've had this discussion with women before. I recommended to a couple that they go out and buy a vibrator that he should use on her so that she could learn about her clitoris. She just refused to touch herself there. They followed my advice and then came to me a few weeks later and thanked me for giving it to them. She became less afraid of her own parts. 

So if you want to use agape as a reason to feel guilty about self love then you're missing the whole point of agape. Unconditional love also implies loving yourself unconditionally. Something people who hate their bodies, fat people included have to learn to do. That's one of the reasons fat people come here - to learn to love their bodies. Posting pics of themselves is part of that process and doesn't cheapen them because of it. 

I'm telling you, you will have a long road to go if you insist on such rigid definitions about love and unconditional love. Love is not a catchall term and it doesn't make problems magically disappear or solve them instantly. What I'm saying may not make sense to you now but it will when you're agonizing about how backed up and frustrated you are if your SO gets pregnant and sex is out of the question or if heaven forbid she gets sick, or anything else like that. You will think you're conquering your own bodily urges and you would be, but for what? You are walking down a long bumpy road to sexual repression, which will just set up all kinds of moral conflicts the likes of which will run deeper than the one you're experiencing now. Makes me think you are just disgusted by your own sexuality.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 2, 2008)

pudgy said:


> I'll admit that I should clarify.
> 
> It masturbation is part of your sexual experience with your partner, then great! Sex, I feel, should be a 2-person experience. If masturbation is part of that, fantastic.
> 
> ...




To each his own. 

I do think that you're setting yourself up for failure though, Pudgy. You're human. You masturbate. You're likely going to think of other women while you're doing so. Spare yourself the mental agony, and accept it as normal. 

I believe that our actions define us, not our thoughts. I don't personally care if my husband fantasizes about the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders, or the Krispy Kreme calendar girls, or (so long as I don't have to know about it) my sisters for a 3-way. If he ever acted on those fantasies, we'd have problems. But hell, the thoughts? Have at it, hub. And have fun wit' yo bad self


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## ripley (Jun 2, 2008)

He's obviously a pretty religious fellow, and in a lot of religious teachings the thought is just as "sinful" as the deed. Telling him to "just relax and accept sexual thoughts" is kinda rude, actually. It's part of his religious belief to want to negate them when not centered on his future wife...seems pretty much like his choice.


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## missy_blue_eyez (Jun 2, 2008)

Pudgy in the nicest possible way....I see what you are trying to put across, but I also, in a sense feel that you are also trying to tell us that we are all sinners because we masturbate selfishly, we dont aspire to love selflessly and we create a lustful environment to encourage the selfish actions of others???? 

Im sorry but you are coming across like you are trying to instill some kinda of matyrdom. In a sense it seems your cutting your own nose off to spite your own face. You also say that even you feel it is nigh possible to achieve this kind of love, so all I can ask is why are you setting yourself up for failure??? Surely this is more harmful to your relationship then both of you having the odd sneaky peek at someone you find hot????? 

Im really confused by this, I totally understand your appreciation for women of all shapes and sizes but your instinct is obviously one of an FA, a person who appreciates the fat body, the body which is not there for you with regards to your significant other. (not that there arent things about her that you adore and also make you lustful for her) So, I just want to know how you are going to wipe clear all your thoughts of fat bodies, the rolls, the hangs the stretch marks or whatever it is about them that you like and totally just 100% only think about your partner??? Im sorry but that isnt possible......are you seriously saying you are never going to have another lustful thought about a heavy girl and want to act on it?? Im sorry, but that to me is more unhealthy then any selfish loving of oneself...but ho hum, just my thoughts


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 2, 2008)

ripley said:


> He's obviously a pretty religious fellow, and in a lot of religious teachings the thought is just as "sinful" as the deed. Telling him to "just relax and accept sexual thoughts" is kinda rude, actually. It's part of his religious belief to want to negate them when not centered on his future wife...seems pretty much like his choice.



Nobody is telling him anything. He is getting some suggestions.

He's expressing his belief, and this is a message board. That typically means that he's going to get some feedback. He may not agree with everything that he reads. If he's not able to handle criticism, constructive or otherwise, perhaps he'd be better off expressing his beliefs on a Christian Acceptance board. Those patrons would be far more likely to tell him that he's right, his beliefs are above reproach, and he should knock himself out attempting to live them.


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## pudgy (Jun 2, 2008)

Even though I am religious or whatever you want to call me, I don't think I should avoid the thoughts just because it seems like the godly thing to do. I really honestly believe that thoughts can be just as bad as actions. And thoughts - believe it or not - lead to actions. To say that thoughts are okay and actions aren't is just naive. Where do you think actions come from? D'oh!

Olwen, I'm confused, because as far as I can tell we're on the same page, at least when it comes to sexual exploration. I don't want to deplore my body or body, and I certainly don't want her to deplore hers or mine. Many-a-times I've suggested that she try some things on herself before marriage and she just won't. She says that she'd rather figure it out together. And in the end, I'm okay with that, as long as we're both willing to figure it out.

So, no, I certainly don't think that true love excludes sexual creativity. I just think that that creativity should be within and because of a relationship, not outside and without. Make sense?

And no worries, I haven't been offended yet by anything said on this thread. Fascinated, yes. Offended, no.


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## ripley (Jun 3, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> this is a message board. That typically means that he's going to get some feedback.




That includes me, I have a right to express my opinions too, etc etc etc.

And why shouldn't he be able to give his religious view of SA and SA stuff here? He's got just as much right as anyone else.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 3, 2008)

ripley said:


> That includes me, I have a right to express my opinions too, etc etc etc.



Can you point out where I suggested that you couldn't or shouldn't?


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## mossystate (Jun 3, 2008)

I have always thought that very rigid religious thinking about sex and sexuality has much in common with the saturation of sexual images and harping on what people ' should be ' doing, and if you are not, there is something wrong with you. Kind of two sides of the same coin...when things get too extreme. Our society is, in many ways, very confused and fucked up ( ha ) when it comes to sex, and yet we are under a ton of sexual images and conversation. We are a nation obsessed with sex...however that looks to each person. I am thinking of the image of the angel on one shoulder..devil on the other. They should, IMO, both be flicked to the floor.


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## olwen (Jun 3, 2008)

pudgy said:


> Even though I am religious or whatever you want to call me, I don't think I should avoid the thoughts just because it seems like the godly thing to do. I really honestly believe that thoughts can be just as bad as actions. And thoughts - believe it or not - lead to actions. To say that thoughts are okay and actions aren't is just naive. Where do you think actions come from? D'oh!
> 
> Olwen, I'm confused, because as far as I can tell we're on the same page, at least when it comes to sexual exploration. I don't want to deplore my body or body, and I certainly don't want her to deplore hers or mine. Many-a-times I've suggested that she try some things on herself before marriage and she just won't. She says that she'd rather figure it out together. And in the end, I'm okay with that, as long as we're both willing to figure it out.
> 
> ...



No Pudgy, we disagree on a very fundamental point tho - the nature of a dirty thought. I don't think they are essentially dirty and you do. I trust myself to not give in to all my thoughts and you don't.

By creativity I'm assuming you mean sexual creativity yes? Look, for a lot of people that creativity comes from fantasies. You learn a lot about what you like by what you fantasize about. I have fantasies about things I would never in a million years ever do. Having the thought isn't evil. Acting on the thought - if it hurts someone else is bad. How often have you thought about how much you'd like to hurt someone who pisses you off really really really really badly and didn't do it? There is a HUGE difference between having a thought and acting on it. 

Sometimes thoughts _are _things - this is a wiccan religious belief. But we say that because an action must start from a thought, an action cannot exist without a thought. But that thought is not fully formed until it is acted upon. Even if you do something by reflex it started as an uncontrolled thought. 

I'm not in a relationship right now, but I have very creative thoughts. I refuse to accept that I'm somehow a sinner for having those thoughts. If I follow your line of reasoning then I'm a sinner for being single. What an absurdity. As far as I'm concerned I can act on those thoughts with or without a partner. And when I do have a partner I'll be able to say "hey babe, I have this awesome wicked fantasy I want to do" or "babe, there's this fantasy I've always had...." How is that bad?

But I see how this argument is just going to go in circles. Good luck on your moral dilemma.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 3, 2008)

pudgy said:


> Even though I am religious or whatever you want to call me, I don't think I should avoid the thoughts just because it seems like the godly thing to do. I really honestly believe that thoughts can be just as bad as actions. And thoughts - believe it or not - lead to actions. *To say that thoughts are okay and actions aren't is just naive*. Where do you think actions come from? D'oh!
> .



In my mind, I've entertained the Turkish men's soccer team a million times. One at a time, in small groups, as part of a tag-team, in as many configurations as there are mathematical possibilities.

Funny, I've somehow been able to resist the temptation to act on those compelling fantasies. 

But now that I know I'm going to hell in a handbasket just for entertaining the *thought* ... pardon me, all ... haitus time. Onur Air, ticket for one please


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## ripley (Jun 3, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> Can you point out where I suggested that you couldn't or shouldn't?



You didn't, I just thought we were stating obvious things about internet message board interactions. 'If you don't want dissenting opinions' etc.


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## pudgy (Jun 3, 2008)

missy_blue_eyez said:


> Pudgy in the nicest possible way....I see what you are trying to put across, but I also, in a sense feel that you are also trying to tell us that we are all sinners because we masturbate selfishly, we dont aspire to love selflessly and we create a lustful environment to encourage the selfish actions of others????
> 
> Im sorry but you are coming across like you are trying to instill some kinda of matyrdom. In a sense it seems your cutting your own nose off to spite your own face. You also say that even you feel it is nigh possible to achieve this kind of love, so all I can ask is why are you setting yourself up for failure??? Surely this is more harmful to your relationship then both of you having the odd sneaky peek at someone you find hot?????
> 
> Im really confused by this, I totally understand your appreciation for women of all shapes and sizes but your instinct is obviously one of an FA, a person who appreciates the fat body, the body which is not there for you with regards to your significant other. (not that there arent things about her that you adore and also make you lustful for her) So, I just want to know how you are going to wipe clear all your thoughts of fat bodies, the rolls, the hangs the stretch marks or whatever it is about them that you like and totally just 100% only think about your partner??? Im sorry but that isnt possible......are you seriously saying you are never going to have another lustful thought about a heavy girl and want to act on it?? Im sorry, but that to me is more unhealthy then any selfish loving of oneself...but ho hum, just my thoughts



The idea of "why set yourself up for failure" seems to be a common thread here. But no one actually lives by this. We don't give up raising children because we know that they will mess up and thus we've set ourselves up for failure. We don't give up trying to be respectful to people because we know one day we'll burst out in anger. We don't go screw every hot girl or boy down the street because our spouses expecting otherwise is simply setting us up for failure.

Quite simply there is nothing to be confused about. We all do this. We all want to attain a certain goal, sometimes quite difficult ones (good kids, good attitudes, a new home, a good marriage), and we try really, really hard at it because it seems like the best thing. I see a romantic relationship completely absent of any sexual contact except for each other's as a goal; a difficult one, but one nonetheless. Am I so strange to reach for that?

Missy, I completely agree with your concern that I'm just trying to be some martyr. I realized a little late that I probably sound a wee-bit arrogant. I'm sorry about it. I'm (hopefully) not naive enough to think I can come barging in with some thread called "Realizations" and go change everyone's world view to my own. Dimensions has always just been a great sounding board for my thoughts. You all challenge me, make me think, make me grow. And I'm grateful for that.

As for the dilemma about being an FA yet marrying a skinny girl...don't worry, that fear has definitely crossed my mind. Unfortunately, I'm screwed either way I go (literally!). If I marry a thin girl, I'll fantasize about the fat ones. If I marry a fat one, won't I just fantasize about the thin ones? I could go for polygamy...uh, no.

But seriously, I worry about that. But I have to realize that marriage and even sex is more about a body, more about bust size and belly measurements. Even in my idealistic little world, there is no "perfect woman" (or "perfect man" for that matter). Even the prettiest BBW alive will have her issues. The same with the prettiest thin woman, or anywhere in between.


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Jun 3, 2008)

In my personal opinion, any spouse who would force you to refrain from masturbation is being unnecessarily cruel, controlling and obviously insecure in their own sexuality. Now, if your spouse is a sex fiend, and the simple fact is you don't have the TIME or NEED to masturbate, that's something else entirely. If you are masturbating in front of her as opposed to making love to her when she obviously needs it, that is also a different angle and in that aspect I can understand her issue. It's akin to a guy who needs to be watching porn with his wife in order to get aroused.

Masturbation isn't completely selfish. It's a form of self-exploration, discovery. It's a way of communicating to your partner what feels good and what doesn't. Masturbating for your spouse/partner is at times a bit embarrassing, sometimes erotic but always, ALWAYS educational. Your fiancee, no matter her sexual talents will ever understand your penis more than YOU will. She will never fully know your mind, your fantasies, your deepest desires. If you choose to deny your needs to allow her to control that aspect of your sexuality, from what I see as primarily devotional and self-control reasons (the idea of asceticism, funneling the sexual desire for other purposes), then more power to you. I just find it a very unfair and cruel way to live your married life. To each their own, of course.

I am also a tad confused that after five or so pages, your original post about 'coming out' over your desire for bbws on this site, and culminating in a 'rededication' of sorts in that you intend to follow the dictates your fiancee sets down, is some sort of covenant with her. You're making an anonymous promise to your wife-to-be by cleansing yourself of your bbw affectations. This site is all about size-acceptance, sexuality, relationships, sex play of all types healthy and non. I understand you're coming to grips with some very heavy stuff, but perhaps this site is not where you need to be seeking enlightenment and affirmation of your beliefs.

Nothing is more irritating than someone making excessive commentary and controversial posts all the while trying to nonchalantly beat around the bush to arrive at some sort of religious testimonial. Save it for the Promise Keeper's meeting. If you choose the path your fiancee sets before you, then coming here will be inherently tempting and self-destructive. Putting all women on a pedestal of your own design, so unreachable and wracked with guilt and sinful desires is to do a disservice to yourself, your fiancee and the women of this board.


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## Dr. P Marshall (Jun 3, 2008)

pudgy said:


> But there is a huge logical jump from "Humans are sexual" to "Men and women should be able to sexual enjoy whomever they please." Masturbation is - by nature - selfish. Marriage should be - by nature - selfless. There is conflict here.
> 
> My point, if I could somehow boil it down, is that there is such an incredible amount of pain and heartache and brokenness because of sexuality gone bad.



OK, I'm probably NOT actually someone who should be answering this because my engagement ended after a long time and we didn't get married and we're no longer together, but I do understand the reality of a long term relationship and what's more a long term relationship where there was a very big test very early on. It had nothing to do with infidelity by the way. He suffered a serious injury, just to clarify. But it was a big test and I can tell you right now, at some point in your marriage if it lasts more than a couple of years, you will have something that tests one or both of you. And that's when you'll learn that reality has a funny way of being much more confusing and much messier than all the things written in books and all the advice given by others about what makes a good relationship. 

I think the problem is that you have a noble idea, but an unrealistic outlook. Marriage is selfless by nature to an extent. There is always compromise, you can't always have your way, tough choices often have to be made. But if you are going to beat yourself up over every selfish thought you ever have sexual or otherwise, you are in for a long road and the problem for you in your marriage will be you. I agree, masturbating compulsively all the time while your wife is in another part of the house, is not a good marriage. But to state that the ACT itself is selfish is not true. It just is what it is. Sometimes, you just have to do what gets you through at times. I don't mean cheating. But unless you actually choose to be with the computer rather than your fiancee when the option of being with your fiancee sexually is available, you're probably not cheating. As others have stated, cheating is an actual action involving another person(or a sexual compulsion at the computer). Thinking lustful thoughts is not cheating in its own right. 

I know there are arguments everywhere in the world today that the divorce rate is because of lust. i would argue it's because more women actually have choices and don't have to stay in bad situations, or more husbands won't be leaving them destitute, etc. Those good old days where no one got divorced often resulted in a lot of pain and horror in those suburban homes. It really did. It is noble to want to take marriage seriously and have it last, but to put yourself under such extreme mental restrictions is, in my opinion, setting yourself up for failure. You will never live up to it. You can't. What matters is always your actions. Thoughts are things you can't control, you can't. But if you love your fiancee/wife/girlfriend and you are good to her and you don't sleep with another woman, what is the problem? Honestly? Especially if you enjoy it when you are with her in and out of the bedroom.

Lustful thoughts are not what make sexuality go bad. It's lustful actions, or sometimes overreactions because people put too much guilt and restrictions on themselves. If you could just let go about your sexuality in general and accept that not every thought you're ever going to have is going to be about your fiancee, but you know what actions you will and won't take, then you should be fine. Know what lines you won't cross and don't cross them.

As for the pictures of women on this site, I am not a BBW so as a woman, but a woman somewhat on the "outside looking in" here, I will say this. I think that in terms of size acceptance and self acceptance, the paysite board might be at the forefront in terms of equality. Every home in America gets catalogs with fashion model thin women in lingerie. It's called Victoria's Secret. It advertises on TV. Having a place where BBW can be elevated to the same sex symbol status is actually important. That is not to say that all BBW should post pictures, or feel that they must, but if Dimensions celebrates the beauty of the fuller female form, it makes sense to present the eroticism of those bodies as well. If you only want to appreciate the minds of BBW, stick to these forums, but the fact that there is a place here where at all levels the total BBW woman can be celebrated in many ways, is actually a very big and important step to the community putting its money where its mouth is about BBW beauty. Or that's what I think. 

And I am not trying to be harsh with you. You seem like a thoughtful guy who just has set unrealistic standards for himself.


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## Dr. P Marshall (Jun 3, 2008)

pudgy said:


> The idea of "why set yourself up for failure" seems to be a common thread here. But no one actually lives by this. We don't give up raising children because we know that they will mess up and thus we've set ourselves up for failure. We don't give up trying to be respectful to people because we know one day we'll burst out in anger. We don't go screw every hot girl or boy down the street because our spouses expecting otherwise is simply setting us up for failure.
> 
> Quite simply there is nothing to be confused about. We all do this. We all want to attain a certain goal, sometimes quite difficult ones (good kids, good attitudes, a new home, a good marriage), and we try really, really hard at it because it seems like the best thing. I see a romantic relationship completely absent of any sexual contact except for each other's as a goal; a difficult one, but one nonetheless. Am I so strange to reach for that?
> 
> Missy, I completely agree with your concern that I'm just trying to be some martyr. I realized a little late that I probably sound a wee-bit arrogant. I'm sorry about it. I'm (hopefully) not naive enough to think I can come barging in with some thread called "Realizations" and go change everyone's world view to my own. Dimensions has always just been a great sounding board for my thoughts. You all challenge me, make me think, make me grow. And I'm grateful for that.


I've got to start reading threads all the way through BEFORE I post. sorry for the double post, but I just saw this. 

Here is what I think when I read these two sections of this post. What do you want to be the outcome? What is important to you really? It sounds like you want a marriage that is faithful, where neither of you sleep with another person and that lasts a long time. Now, if in order to do that, to have that outcome overall, you had to masturbate once in a while or look at a sexy picture, is it more important to beat yourself up over it? Or is it more important to accept that it might be something necessary to help you achieve your much more important, long term goal of faithfulness? I am not talking about setting yourself up for failure in the sense that your marriage is doomed to failure, or one of you having an affair. I think that you are LESS likely to have a failed marriage or one with infidelity if you are a little more accepting and understanding of the difference between thoughts and actions. I understand you are religious, but it sounds like you do believe thoughts are not the same as actions even if they're "bad" thoughts. So, I guess, my point is you can put unrealistic standards on your brain, or you can allow your brain a little freedom and ultimately control and restrict your ACTIONS. But, I honestly don't think you can focus all of your energy on controlling your thoughts and feeling guilty about them and come out of it healthy enough mentally to be a good SO. I really don't think any human can achieve total absence of thoughts they find distasteful(whatever that may mean for each person.)


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## Renaissance Woman (Jun 3, 2008)

pudgy said:


> Alright, for once and for all: no, my fiance is not fat. As I have said many-a-times, I see beauty in women of all shapes and sizes, thick and thin. No, I am not a closeted FA with guilt or shame issues. My fiance, my family, my friends, my college all know my thoughts on this issue.


Fine and dandy, but how does she feel? Does she find men of all sizes attractive? You've posted on another thread that you want to gain yourself and have already done so. Did you clear this with her first? Is she on board with your plan? If not, you're already being inherently selfish about your sexuality.



> My concern is that that which becomes common becomes cheap. It's a simple concept called the Law of Supply and Demand. If you want to do a fascinating study, take a look at the rise of pornography versus the rise of erectile dysfunction. Quite simply, pornography can neuter a man. How can a wife compete with pixelated, sexual fantasies that she could never make come true.


Repeat this until your head explodes: CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION. Even if what you say is true, which I doubt, there are other intervening factors, like the rise of the interweb and the availability of viagra, which are both better explanations for the popularity of porn and increased diagnosis of erectile dysfunction (Why would a guy go to a doctor before viagra? There was no easy treatment available).


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## mergirl (Jun 3, 2008)

hell! i masturbate while i'm having sex sometimes! I'm probably even masturbating now..
i dont think being religious should take away the simple pleasures of self exploration. I'm not religious, as you possibly know but i'm sure if gog hadn't intended us to masturbate he wouldnt have given us the brains to invent vibrators! lol...
seriously though, its a shame that you feel so guilty about something so natural, though i suppose it is ment to be a bit of a taboo subject, i think mainly because in many ways when new religions such as christianity and islam took over in numbers from the old religions ie paganism etc. sex which was seen as something natural, beautiful and powerful was turned into something shameful and disgsusting.. Just as they turned the horned god "pan" who was the god of sex, music and animals (but not at the same time) into something demonic and made his image that of the devil. It must be hellish, not to be able to have a fumble when you feel like it.. it must be frustrating because its an urge just as natural as eating or sleeping.

xmer


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## mergirl (Jun 3, 2008)

erm i ment god.. i didnt just make up a new anti-wanking daity!

xmer


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## thatgirl08 (Jun 3, 2008)

exile in thighville said:


> i've always said there should be a disclaimer at the top of this SEXUAL INTEREST SITE warning that if you post a pic, you will be jerked off to, so think about that before you do. but i'm disgusted with how dimensions downplays the fact it's predominantly a sexual interest site and leads to posts like these from actually appalled people. we're in a meat market, folks. like a bar or anywhere else recreational-not-professional. it's not cynical, it's what you have to deal with. you can accidentally click on a porn link here. that's the place you're posting. think about it and either reconcile or don't.



This is pretty much what I was going to say. 

Some of you need to stop trying to fool yourselves. When a woman here posts a picture of herself, she knows damn well that the picture is going to be looked at by horny guys and someone will probably jerk off to it. I know you all know it, because the majority of the pictures posted here are of girls in bikinis, in lingerie, naked...what do you think people are planning on doing with those photos?


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## pudgy (Jun 3, 2008)

> In my personal opinion, any spouse who would force you to refrain from masturbation is being unnecessarily cruel, controlling and obviously insecure in their own sexuality.





> If you choose the path your fiancee sets before you


Uh, you missed something somewhere. No one said anything about anybody forcing anyone to do anything. This whole not-masturbating-for-one's-own-gain thing was my decision, not hers.



> Masturbation isn't completely selfish. It's a form of self-exploration, discovery. It's a way of communicating to your partner what feels good and what doesn't. Masturbating for your spouse/partner is at times a bit embarrassing, sometimes erotic but always, ALWAYS educational. Your fiancee, no matter her sexual talents will ever understand your penis more than YOU will. She will never fully know your mind, your fantasies, your deepest desires. If you choose to deny your needs to allow her to control that aspect of your sexuality, from what I see as primarily devotional and self-control reasons (the idea of asceticism, funneling the sexual desire for other purposes), then more power to you. I just find it a very unfair and cruel way to live your married life. To each their own, of course.


Again, I agree that masturbation should not be ruled out and condemned as a whole. Masturbation for sexual exploration for the sake of a more healthy 2-person sexual relationship is healthy and good. But when it is done just for selfish, animalistic release, I think it's a problem.



> I understand you're coming to grips with some very heavy stuff, but perhaps this site is not where you need to be seeking enlightenment and affirmation of your beliefs.


Whatever conversation you don't want to read or be a part of, feel free to skip.



> But if you are going to beat yourself up over every selfish thought you ever have sexual or otherwise, you are in for a long road and the problem for you in your marriage will be you.


I'd have to agree with you here. My goal is not to beat myself up, or anyone else for that matter. But again, when did striving for a goal, even a lofty one, become a problem?



> Lustful thoughts are not what make sexuality go bad. It's lustful actions


I'm sorry, but I just see this as amazingly naive. Thoughts lead to actions. Avoid the bad thoughts therefore avoid the bad actions.



> What is important to you really? It sounds like you want a marriage that is faithful, where neither of you sleep with another person and that lasts a long time. Now, if in order to do that, to have that outcome overall, you had to masturbate once in a while or look at a sexy picture, is it more important to beat yourself up over it? Or is it more important to accept that it might be something necessary to help you achieve your much more important, long term goal of faithfulness?





> I honestly don't think you can focus all of your energy on controlling your thoughts and feeling guilty about them and come out of it healthy enough mentally to be a good SO. I really don't think any human can achieve total absence of thoughts they find distasteful(whatever that may mean for each person.)


Excellent thoughts! I'll admit I'll have to ponder those for a while.



> Fine and dandy, but how does she feel? Does she find men of all sizes attractive? You've posted on another thread that you want to gain yourself and have already done so. Did you clear this with her first? Is she on board with your plan? If not, you're already being inherently selfish about your sexuality.


No, she doesn't find men of all sizes attractive. However, I fail to see how that's relevant. Please tell me.

Yes, she knows of my (here and there) gaining desires. She's on board. Of course gaining could bring about a whole other slew of arguments just like masturbation. So let's just leave that alone.



> Repeat this until your head explodes: CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION. Even if what you say is true, which I doubt, there are other intervening factors, like the rise of the interweb and the availability of viagra, which are both better explanations for the popularity of porn and increased diagnosis of erectile dysfunction (Why would a guy go to a doctor before viagra? There was no easy treatment available).


You're right. I shouldn't even have brought up the whole porn/ED thing. 



> i dont think being religious should take away the simple pleasures of self exploration.





> sex which was seen as something natural, beautiful and powerful was turned into something shameful and disgsusting


Agreed! I think religion that downplays the fact that we are physical, sexual beings with physical, sexual desires is a dumb and false religion. Actually the early Christian church spent 2 centuries (and more) fighting the heresies of those who said such absurd things (a general heresy called Gnosticism).

Sex is indeed natural, beautiful, and powerful. Anyone who calls it shameful and disgusting is, well, shameful and disgusting. Well, at least those ideas are.

But we're not talking about sex! We're talking about masturbation. For the umpteenth time, masturbation within a sexual relationship with another person or for the sake of personal exploration in order to better a sexual relationship for another person is fine and dandy. But once you cross the line of doing with yourself, for yourself, I then think you run into problems. A major problem of our Western society is the concept of instant gratification. It never occurs to anyone that it might just be possible to simply wait. But I digress...

I think it simply comes to a point that we have completely different worldviews and I don't think we can ever talk about this intelligently just because we inherently disagree on so many other big issues, how could we ever agree on the small ones?


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## olwen (Jun 3, 2008)

> But we're not talking about sex! We're talking about masturbation. For the umpteenth time, masturbation within a sexual relationship with another person or for the sake of personal exploration in order to better a sexual relationship for another person is fine and dandy. But once you cross the line of doing with yourself, for yourself, I then think you run into problems. A major problem of our Western society is the concept of instant gratification. It never occurs to anyone that it might just be possible to simply wait. But I digress...



If masturbation isn't sex, then you wouldn't be having this unbelievable moral dilemma. You've contradicted yourself a few times in the above post. Go back and re-read it.

How are you going to be able to take care of your fiance sexually if you can't take care of yourself that way? I just don't understand how or why you came to believe that masturbation is inherently selfish if no one else is present. I'm just utterly baffled and bewildered.


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## exile in thighville (Jun 4, 2008)

pudgy said:


> Alright, for once and for all: no, my fiance is not fat. As I have said many-a-times, I see beauty in women of all shapes and sizes, thick and thin. No, I am not a closeted FA with guilt or shame issues. My fiance, my family, my friends, my college all know my thoughts on this issue.
> 
> Alright, now that that's through, a couple of things. My use of the Drawbridge Idiom in reference to sexual arousal, getting a boner, raising a salute, however you want to put it is not out of discomfort with sexuality but rather a reference to an earlier. Nor is my being a "goddie" doom me to being anti-sex. In fact, I'm just as sexual as the next guy, proven by the dirty rags and socks, covered in smooge or Jerkens lotion or whatever. Nor do I deny that sexuality is an essential, God-implanted, necessary part of being human.
> 
> ...



this is my problem with religion...the answers are in front of you but you don't see the bridge. if masturbation is selfish and marraige is selfless, what's that word, oh, compromise? you should start reading dan savage dude. also, do not get married to a thin girl. the fact you are here, feeling conflicted, guilty, full of sin, whatever...you are not being honest with yourself and dancing around it. it is a bigger problem to you than you're trying to rationalize. i'm inferring all this and taking liberties, but why so much concern otherwise? why do you feel so guilty for liking what you like and doing what you can to handle those urges?


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## BothGunsBlazing (Jun 4, 2008)

marrying a thin girl .. having gaining desires even if she isn't into all sizes .. 

this sounds like it's going to be a hell of a ride!


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## Wagimawr (Jun 4, 2008)

pudgy said:


> I'm sorry, but I just see this as amazingly naive. Thoughts lead to actions. Avoid the bad thoughts therefore avoid the bad actions.


Different worldviews, etc etc. I had to speak up about *this*.

Thoughts lead to actions?

POSSIBLY, but not ALWAYS. I see where you're coming from, though; in the eyes of God in the Old Testament, lustful thoughts were viewed just as sinfully as lustful actions. Now, assuming further that all sins are the same, and we're all sinners, yeah, I guess that'd be true, but that's all covered under the whole "all humans are sinful" thing. 

For everybody else that doesn't quite buy into that, thoughts DO NOT HAVE TO lead to actions. I've thought about questionable things but they haven't lead me to act on them; it's a matter of self-control and such.

Also, I'm a virgin who masturbates. Where does that put me on the scale of "instant gratification"?


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## exile in thighville (Jun 4, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


> Also, I'm a virgin who masturbates. Where does that put me on the scale of "instant gratification"?



you're about a tara reid but not quite diablo cody.


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## Wagimawr (Jun 4, 2008)

RAEG. HAET. D:


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Jun 4, 2008)

Arguments for and against the "Sin of Onan" simultaneously amuse and upset me. I keep going back to Pacino's final speech in The Devil's Advocate and keep thinking for a God to create physical desires and then set the rules in opposition is incredibly sadistic and cruel. Argue for that "we may be animals but we don't have to submit to animal desires" all you want. Study after study has proven that masturbation is a healthy outlet of sexual desire (hell, it even helps keep the prostate healthy). I guess it's a personal moral argument to deny it for the sake of respecting your spouse and not giving in to selfish needs. I just hope your fiancee and you have equivalent sex drives, because if yours is 5x higher you're gonna have to start hauling your nuts around in a wheelbarrow.


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## Renaissance Woman (Jun 4, 2008)

pudgy said:


> No, she doesn't find men of all sizes attractive. However, I fail to see how that's relevant. Please tell me.
> 
> Yes, she knows of my (here and there) gaining desires. She's on board. Of course gaining could bring about a whole other slew of arguments just like masturbation. So let's just leave that alone.


You answered your own question here, but I'll address it as well. 

You've stated that marriage is inherently selfless, or should be. Given that, you both have an obligation to the other to keep yourself as attractive as possible in the other's eyes. NOT attractive to yourself, _attractive to the other person._ If she doesn't find fat guys hot, then your gaining is completely selfish, and by your selfishness of masturbation argument, should be avoided. 

The big difference here is that masturbation doesn't have long-term consequences like gaining does. You gain weight, you've got it with you 24/7. You beat off, you're done in a few minutes and can go about your business with nothing to show for it except a messy tissue. 

If you never want to touch yourself, fine. But be consistent about your beliefs and actions.


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## olwen (Jun 4, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


> Different worldviews, etc etc. I had to speak up about *this*.
> 
> Thoughts lead to actions?
> 
> ...



Yes, thoughts do not have to lead to actions because we all have this thing called free will. Pudgy, you are mixing up thoughts, actions, and free will. Tho they are all related, they are still separate entities. In order for my thought to become an action I have to have the _will _to carry it out. So this applies to thoughts of killing someone who hurts you so it applies to people who you have lustful urges for. I choose not to kill someone and you can choose not to cheat. Simple yes? So why are you making this so hard on yourself? If you think you don't have the will to be faithful, then blame that on your own inner reserves and not some thought you think has been brought on by some external force. That's a cop out and a crock. Take responsibility for your own actions and desires that you have had. No one forced them on you or snuck the ideas into your head....they all came from within you so own up to them.


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## Violet_Beauregard (Jun 4, 2008)

VERY well said.... :bow:



olwen said:


> Yes, thoughts do not have to lead to actions because we all have this thing called free will. Pudgy, you are mixing up thoughts, actions, and free will. Tho they are all related, they are still separate entities. In order for my thought to become an action I have to have the _will _to carry it out. So this applies to thoughts of killing someone who hurts you so it applies to people who you have lustful urges for. I choose not to kill someone and you can choose not to cheat. Simple yes? So why are you making this so hard on yourself? If you think you don't have the will to be faithful, then blame that on your own inner reserves and not some thought you think has been brought on by some external force. That's a cop out and a crock. Take responsibility for your own actions and desires that you have had. No one forced them on you or snuck the ideas into your head....they all came from within you so own up to them.


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## MisterGuy (Jun 5, 2008)

I think OP has answered his own question. Stop coming here. If it makes you feel guilty and you think it's bad for your relationship, cease and desist. I will say this, though--there are a hell of a lot more places (i.e. life/the world, basically) that cause lustful thoughts than Dimensions, and feeling guilty every time you pop a boner is a hell of a way to go through life.


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## KHayes666 (Jun 6, 2008)

pudgy said:


> Over the past year or so, I've learned so much from the Dimensions community. In the beginning, I was ashamed of my feeling towards big women, namely, that they too could be beautiful; now, I went so far as to post a public note to my college about my thoughts on the matter. I used to be afraid of fat and its evils; now I understand the media and cultural taint on facts that the majority of people will never hear. Heck, I've simply become more educated on the thoughts of women, ideas on sexuality, and the world in general.
> 
> But last night I had to do some hard thinking and thus came to some equally hard conclusions. For all the good Dimensions does - the truth-telling, the esteem-boosting, the community-building - for all the good it does, it can be downright poisonous as well. Perhaps the example I feel most passionate about is the devaluing of women. It's kind of a paradox, actually. Women, scared to death of the weight, size, and shape, meekly and humbly post pictures to dozen of threads (Belly Hang, Sexiest Pics Naked, Sexiest Pics Clothed, Skinniest and Fatties, Show Your Face, Most Recent Pic, etc...). To their incredible surprise they are loved, admired, almost famed.
> 
> ...



Hey genius, just because YOU'RE engaged doesn't mean I'M not. I have every right to look at anyone I want, and its not wrong at all. If I am attracted to a woman or if I think she's pretty, I'll say so. Its not lusting, its being honest and truthful.

God says thou shall not commit adultery....and that only applies when someone is taken, which I am not.


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## Lastminute.Tom (Jun 7, 2008)

blimey that took aaaages to read, anyway, so still standing the points to be debated are:

is masturbation alone a selfish act? and does that make it wrong?

is the distribution of porn corrupting the institute of marriage by winning away partners through the powers of lust?

I say . . .. masturbation is a natural act it lowers the risk of prostate cancer in men and releases neurotransmitters which make you feel good, and in some cases sleepy, I think that yes it is possible to live a life without sexual gratification but that doesn't make it any better than a natural existence, 
I think that you have to examine the term selfish as well, for how can you love another if you cannot love thy self? I do not mean in a narcissistic "I'm supreme" way I mean in a "I'm completley happy with who I am, infact I love being me" kinda way. 
Yes masturbation is animalistic but why does that make it bad? didn't god create us to feel good whilst doing it? why would a benevolent creator torture a creation this way? surely that would be more satanlike than godlike? although I'm guessing by me saying this that I am clearly satans plaything doing his bidding

anyway point b, or question 2 or the second part of my ramblings

ok, marriage, do you think that we should judge the quality of a relationship relative to how long it lasts? because as far as I can tell about 99% of marriages are started out with love, or at least the fear of being alone and then about two years in they should have run their course and ended but neither partner wishes to leave because they feel obligated to stay in the union and afraid of being alone etc, I think that the rise in divorce rates is nothing to do with temptation or lust, I think its because the relationships are being entered into for all the wrong reasons mainly to end loneliness or to fill a gap or to recover from a previous relationship, then when they get married its just the same as before except now its ilegal for them to have sex with someone else and you feel obligated to stay in the relationship if not for yourself for your partner if not for your partner for your parents etc

and porn only exists as long as societys hang ups about sex exist, if as a people we were open and upfront about sex then we wouldn't have taboos and "naughty" pictures because everyone would be satisfied and nobody would be ashamed of their bodies, 
it is unfortuanate then that our ideas about sex tend to form a microcosm of our ideas surrounding life but then you look at the planet or todays paper and its all true,

oh and the whole "I'm screwed either way" isn't a good foundation for a lasting relationship, if you focus on what you lack rather than what you are rich with then what you lack will become the focus of the relationship and "not enough"ness will be your downfall


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## stefanie (Jun 8, 2008)

Let me get this straight - gaining for sexual gratification is OK (even if your fiancee may not like fat men); marrying a thin woman even though you like fat women is OK, but masturbation and the pay sites are wrong. 

?confused?


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## exile in thighville (Jun 9, 2008)

_You better pray you never wake up
To find your dreams have all come true
Cause if you get everything you hope for
Then I will have to punish you_


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## angel-1 (Jun 27, 2008)

Ruby Ripples said:


> I think your post is very wrong in so many ways but they've been answered on the other posts on the thread here. One thing though.. I do feel YOU have some serious guilt issues about being on this site doing the ogling and getting hard ons at the fat women. Not just women, but fat women. With the whole tone of your post one thing kept popping into my head.... "his fiancee isnt fat". Of course she might be an ssbbw for all i know, but I just have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of your feelings of guilt and ideas about OUR self-esteem and self-worth are tied up in some kind of shame you have? IF I am right, then I think you have a lot of thinking to do, since your feelings of lust toward fat female bodies won't just disappear suddenly. You say how devastated your fiancee would be if she knew you were on this site, yet here you still are... So it must be a HUGE draw for you. I'll bet my life that even if you DO make a big farewell, you'll still be here as a lurker.
> 
> Your last paragraph is so utterly patronising and chauvenistic, that I'm frankly stunned. Who are you to wish us ONE pair of eyes to gaze upon us or whatever you said? I wouldn't have been surprised if you had next suggested that we all go into purdah so you CAN'T ogle us.
> 
> ...



and this is why Ms. Ruby rules.:bow::bow::bow::bow::bow:


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## KHayes666 (Jun 27, 2008)

I forgot all about this thread.....I still maintain that females wank just as much as men do, so lets all be sinners together.

Wait...that sounded very wrong lol :doh:


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## missy_blue_eyez (Jun 27, 2008)

KHayes666 said:


> I forgot all about this thread.....I still maintain that females wank just as much as men do, so lets all be sinners together.
> 
> Wait...that sounded very wrong lol :doh:


lol Hayes.....lets not make this a wanking confessions thread, as much as you are obviously trying to do so! lol


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## mergirl (Jun 30, 2008)

lalalala.."masturbation, can be fun.. join the holy orgy karma sutra, EVERYONE!!!" lalala. (c) hair the musical!!

xmer (wanking as we speak)


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## angel-1 (Jun 30, 2008)

mergirl said:


> lalalala.."masturbation, can be fun.. join the holy orgy karma sutra, EVERYONE!!!" lalala. (c) hair the musical!!
> 
> xmer (wanking as we speak)



I've never seen hair so I gotta ask, are there snacks at this event? Pastries, beverages, etc. If not, I'm not coming.


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## Paquito (Jun 30, 2008)

pudgy said:


> Again, one more poison. Though I can truly only blame myself, I have to wonder about the general perception growing in society about porn (or whatever it is you look at to get yourself riled up). It's appalling that I am here despite my having a fiance. But in society, there's almost this pat-on-the-back kind of attitude that says, "We all do it; we understand."



Erm, regarding the "fiance" bull, why does it matter if you are in a serious relationship and still come to this site? Its not like this is some prostitution site with girls offering to service you for $10 a pop or something. Yes there is a paysite, and threads where the lovely ladies let us ogle their deliciousness, but thats not the main component of this website. Its not here just for pics, its so much more than that. We discuss issues in the world, personal problems at home, and have fun playing the Lounge games. Just because you real bad that you look at pics, don't try to make the rest of us feel like overboard horny monkeys.


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## mergirl (Jun 30, 2008)

angel-1 said:


> I've never seen hair so I gotta ask, are there snacks at this event? Pastries, beverages, etc. If not, I'm not coming.


no..i'm afraid not. just ganga and sodomy.. lmao
i might give it a miss myself..

xmer


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