# Kelligrl: The Conference Presentation-your input



## butch (Mar 24, 2011)

In a month, I'll be presenting a paper at a conference with the title "Kelligrl, the myth, the legend."

Any suggestions on how I should put this together? Particular webpages, images, ideas about what she represents, what her role is in the SA/FA world, and what role her dissaperance has in her mythic status in the world of fat admiration, or anything else you want me to know about this paper before I put it together?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.


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## disconnectedsmile (Mar 24, 2011)

what in the


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## JMNYC (Mar 24, 2011)

Hey, Butch--

You'll see the first response to this post is "what in the" from DisconnectedSmile.

Not even a question mark!

It was my same reaction. 

You say you're "presenting" "a paper" at "a conference."

Not enough info. Is this conference at the U.N., the Elks Club, what?

Imagine yourself painting a painting, or writing a song about KG. You probably wouldn't ask a committee. If you're writing about Kelligrl, it probably means you are obsessed, which means it's a great subject for you to write about. But---

What's YOUR feeling about KG? What do YOU think she represents? Why do you, personally, follow this person who hasn't been a visible presence on the web for over 10 years? You have access to the same photos, the same information anyone else does.


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## disconnectedsmile (Mar 24, 2011)

JMNYC said:


> Hey, Butch--
> 
> You'll see the first response to this post is "what in the" from DisconnectedSmile.
> 
> ...


you weren't supposed to see the "in the" part. YOU RUINED IT.


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## Wild Zero (Mar 24, 2011)

Skinny face, big ass, bigger hair: An examination of Kelligrrl's resonance amongst FAs


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## butch (Mar 24, 2011)

well, the conference is an academic conference, where folks gather to talk about buffy, fatties, TV advertisements, and anything else about our culture that you might find interesting. Its what I do 'for a living,' dontcha know.

I'm interested in Kelligrl as an image, one that continues to circulate in our sub culture, and so any of you who have taken a class about 'representation' in college, you know exactly what I want to do with Kelligrl-analyize and deconstruct the impact she had or still has in the vitural world of fat community, whether as nothing more than an image on the web, or as a real person whose actions have helped mold the community we may take for granted today.

References available upon request,


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## D_A_Bunny (Mar 24, 2011)

I too had the "HUH?" reaction to this question. However, knowing the source of the question, Butch, I completely believe it to be a real and true question. All that I know of Butch both here and on facebook leads me to believe that she is pursuing this information for true academic reasons. 

I will be very interested to see a finished product if she is willing to share when it is done. I believe that the subject matter will be handled responsibly and respectfully.


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## butch (Mar 24, 2011)

Thanks DA for the support. I didn't think people would doubt my motives, and I guess I thought enough people knew about my academic activities that I didn't need to worry about people taking my questions as something other than face value.

Oy vey. :doh:


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## D_A_Bunny (Mar 24, 2011)

butch said:


> Thanks DA for the support. I didn't think people would doubt my motives, and I guess I thought enough people knew about my academic activities that I didn't need to worry about people taking my questions as something other than face value.
> 
> Oy vey. :doh:



You are quite welcome. I think that the mention of Kelligrl makes people get a little kooky sometimes. Its ok. Now we just need for anyone with some input, to start inputting. Me, I got nothing. I will be very interested though to see this progress. Good luck with the paper. I am sure you will do a fabulous job.


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## CastingPearls (Mar 24, 2011)

I got nothing Butch but what I do find dismaying is that you're a big part of this community and have always been sincere and if anyone had half the motivation to do a quick search of your posting history as they have to make snarky remarks they'd have seen that.


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## JMNYC (Mar 24, 2011)

disconnectedsmile said:


> you weren't supposed to see the "in the" part. YOU RUINED IT.



Sorry about that, Chief! Feel free to ruin one of mine in the future.


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## butch (Mar 24, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> I got nothing Butch but what I do find dismaying is that you're a big part of this community and have always been sincere and if anyone had half the motivation to do a quick search of your posting history as they have to make snarky remarks they'd have seen that.



I'm not around as much as I used to be, CP, which might be why my motives may be considered suspect by some. Many years ago, some of us discussed this very project (Kelligrl as academic subject) on the boards, and so I was hoping that there might be some interest from today's group of Dims posters.

I'm really just going to show pictures and talk for 15 minutes at this conference, which is one of the few things I'm good at.


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## Emma (Mar 24, 2011)

My theory is that she just had a really tiny head and a normal sized body! 

I also think that if she was around now she wouldn't even get a lookin. I think she was just the poster child of a generation that didn't have fat women to look at, especially gaining ones.

I also would just like to back butch up to say that she is genuine and if she is posting here asking for input it is because of a proper reason.


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## Mack27 (Mar 24, 2011)

Will there be slides of the old Bulge magazine?


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## LalaCity (Mar 24, 2011)

I dunno, but "Kelligirl:The Musical" has a nice ring.


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## Lamia (Mar 24, 2011)

I don't know anything about her other than I've heard her name through the years. I've been coming to dimensions chat and forums since 1998, but I'm not into weight gain or that aspect of dimensions so probably why I'm not familiar with her. 

Diann


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## NomadicFA (Mar 24, 2011)

When I first came across her 10 or more years ago;
she was a very young looking model,
very engaging and sexy smile,
appeared to be really enjoying herself,
one of the first gainer/feedee's with documentary pics,
I don't recollect nude or even semi-naked pics,
dare I say one of the most popular bbw shapes,
out at the top,
leave them wanting more.

She possibly ticks enough boxes to be a legend.
Hope that helps.


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## GTAFA (Mar 24, 2011)

butch said:


> In a month, I'll be presenting a paper at a conference with the title "Kelligrl, the myth, the legend."
> 
> Any suggestions on how I should put this together? Particular webpages, images, ideas about what she represents, what her role is in the SA/FA world, and what role her dissaperance has in her mythic status in the world of fat admiration, or anything else you want me to know about this paper before I put it together?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your thoughts.



Okay, I'll bite (excuse the expression). And to be honest, I think it's a great topic for a paper, whether in a fat studies context, women's studies, cultural studies, or even in a media context (perhaps examining her documents/ images) where 100% of those present are fat phobic. In the latter case, you'd explain the phenomenon the way you might explain rock music or television to people who have never heard of the phenenomenon or its shared assumptions. How might a person look at a TV who has never heard of such a thing? How indeed, would people look at kelligrl_ if they didn't get that some people liked the notion of eating as a way to gain weight, admiration of big women, etc. By framing your discussion with an explanation of the (excuse the pun) broader phenomenon of fat acceptance/admiration, you are able not only able to outline the context both then and now (as it is changing), but to foreground your methodology. What's the difference, for example, if we look at Kelligrl_ from outside that framework (for instance, was she oppressed by her admirers & the community surrounding her?) , or from inside (was she a would-be fat activist? or a failed fat activist? and what would that mean?)

She reminds me in some way of DB Cooper, the legendary robber who may or may not have survived jumping out the back of a 727 with his money, during a hijacking. IS Kelligrl_ actually reading this forum, alive and well and married or living with her gf, or actually, a hoax? I had the distinct impression for awhile --when she was reneging on her promise to publish issues of Bulge for which she'd already collected advance payment-- that she was simply stressed out, both by all the attention, and more basically, by the impossibility of meeting her commitments. What was fun at the beginning got a little out of control. She wanted her life back, and so she disappeared: which is quite an achievement, I'd say. It would be way harder to achieve that now --with facebook and webpages--than back in the 90s when she was flying under the radar.

I testify that she is real. I had very brief correspondence with her. But just because she mailed me a copy of _Bulge_ (with my content published in it) doesn't really prove she exists, particularly because i long ago misplaced that precious magazine. Besides, why should you believe me?

And as with so many cultural phenomena (Michael Jackson & Elvis come to mind), she's changing with the years. Currently the mythology is verging in the direction of comedy, largely because the reality online --the awesome things one sees in the Dimensions forum for example-- changes the definition of what's daring or edgy. Her pages seem super tame compared to what one sees here. And in another 5 years the definitions will change again. I think it's really cool that some phenomena remain alive here, after a fashion, as oral traditions/urban legends.


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## ImSoDead (Mar 24, 2011)

If Rosie Mercado was a feedee, she'd be the new Kelligirl.

Kelligirl was the first successful feedee/gainer with a skinny face and neck.


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## ThatFatGirl (Mar 24, 2011)

ImSoDead said:


> Kelligirl was the first successful feedee/gainer with a skinny face and neck.



This reminds me of when I first discovered Dimensions years ago and noticed _the boys_ all fawning over Kelligrl's thin face and fat body. It felt at the time like not only was the standard she set likely more acceptable to the overall masses, but even to the FAs who made no secret of how much they found her thin face/fat body dichotomy desirable. It kind of sucked and was confusing for a self conscious fat girl with a double chin.


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## The Orange Mage (Mar 24, 2011)

I've never seen the big deal. Then again, I'm a sucker for chubby cheeks.


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## liz (di-va) (Mar 24, 2011)

ThatFatGirl said:


> This reminds me of when I first discovered Dimensions years ago and noticed _the boys_ all fawning over Kelligrl's thin face and fat body. It felt at the time like not only was the standard she set likely more acceptable to the overall masses, but even to the FAs who made no secret of how much they found her thin face/fat body dichotomy desirable. It kind of sucked and was confusing for a self conscious fat girl with a double chin.


Yup, me too, although it was more than just Kelligrl (I didn't pay that much attention to her, more to the people paying attention to her), it was the general ethos around here--around Dimensions. Being skinny (mainstream thinking) was an impossible ideal, but being fat with a face that didn't show it/was skinny (a Dims ideal)--an even more impossible ideal. It pissed me off.

It also mislead me, because I do not think as many men (I'm gonna be heteronormative here, since I have experience with only that) care about an impossible skinny face with a fat body as I thought. I do think that beauty ideals for fat women's faces are kinda rough, in general, but I think Dims mislead me about that. Just as not as many FAs are into gaining/feeding as you think upon arriving here, same with the faces thing.

I think that women like Kelligrl are of great attraction to people who are interested in gaining/feeding stuff because bodies such as hers embody change--visibly--simultaneously. It's kinetic, almost, if you are interested in the idea of expanding, since it is a body that starts out one way (small) and gets bigger, all at once.


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## GTAFA (Mar 24, 2011)

liz (di-va) said:


> I think that women like Kelligrl are of great attraction to people who are interested in gaining/feeding stuff because bodies such as hers embody change--visibly--simultaneously. It's kinetic, almost, if you are interested in the idea of expanding, since it is a body that starts out one way (small) and gets bigger, all at once.



I think you've got a point. One ideal (or is it a fantasy) i hear about is the idea that one can feed selectively, to make boobs or ass or stomach grow in isolation. A woman with a thin face and a growing body seems to match that ideal/fantasy. It's the same idea behind body modification through procedures such as implants.


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## tonynyc (Mar 24, 2011)

*B*utch: good luck with your findings - you can certainly take this research into all sorts of directions ....

1. I will make the analogy to the field of bodybuilding (you still see training articles about Arnold Schwarzenegger and he has not competed in years)-

It seems that certain images and roles "for good or bad" still resonate.... 

And of course there are the other "non-physical" controversial issues -but, that has been discussed in Dims on other threads at length .... 

And I hope you are able to get a huge grant from the NIH on this


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## olwen (Mar 24, 2011)

Butch, you know you're all kinds of awesome right? I wish I could go to the conference just to hear your presentation. 

I'd like to know if the Keligirl myth is still as relevant today as it was in the internet's infancy, er - toddlerhood since images of fat female bodies are plentiful on the internet today. I wonder too if there was a male equivalent at all.


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## Wild Zero (Mar 25, 2011)

I think of Kelligrl as the FA equivalent of Richey Edwards to Britpop, at least for me. I mean I liked a Manic Street Preachers song or two but I'm not obsessing over where the hell he vanished/died. I remember liking some of Kelligrl's photos when I started getting into Dimensions (so the body stocking photos in '98 or so) but I think the whole "where's Kelligrl???" stuff that used to be so prevalent here was unwarranted importance. 

Besides, I liked Pulp and Blur a ton better. And Cocker and Albarn are still active. 

Does this make Teighlor Paul Weller?


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## wi-steve (Mar 25, 2011)

I think the biggest thing is that she was opening proud of being fat and getting fatter when no one else was there. At the time this was unheard of, even on the net.

Also perhaps an interesting case is the impossibly busty, never naked "TW Girl." Google it.

I think part of the allure or Kelli and TW GIrl is that neither really ever got naked. THere's something to be said for leaving something to the imagination. Men fill in any blanks with what they want to see.

Steve


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## Jay West Coast (Mar 25, 2011)

Um, can I come to the conference? 

Or will you at least have a webex presentation?


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## KHayes666 (Mar 25, 2011)

What a lot of people don't realize was Kelligrl was around back when the paysite/size acceptance/etc market was about 25% of what it is now. Its like making fun of 80's hair bands or Knotts Landing but back in the day they were extremely popular.

The dims nerds like to post sarcastic remarks regarding Kelligrl, while fawning over the Kellie Kay's and Big Cutie Ashley's of today (no disrespect to either of them btw). I just shake my head in laugh because in 13 years, the next generation of F/A's will probably be making the same sarcastic jokes about the models of today and fawn over the models of 2024.

Enjoy your Lady Gaga, lolcats and Jersey Shore while you still can.


As for Butch, hope your presentation goes well.


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## mango (Mar 25, 2011)

*For your reference:

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=734268&postcount=113


That is all.

*


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## FatAndProud (Mar 25, 2011)

mango said:


> *For your reference:
> 
> http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=734268&postcount=113
> 
> ...



lmfao. I didn't know you were our resident Shakespeare, mango!


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## Bluestreak (Mar 25, 2011)

wi-steve said:


> I think the biggest thing is that she was opening proud of being fat and getting fatter when no one else was there. At the time this was unheard of, even on the net.
> 
> Also perhaps an interesting case is the impossibly busty, never naked "TW Girl." Google it.
> 
> ...



Good call on TW Girl!
An example of a similar phenomenon from a different genre can be very informative.
Having lived during the reign of both women and having been electronically active before Netscape made the internet popular, I think the cycle will continue, as another poster has already suggested.
I just wonder what's next? Maybe Ned has a vision.


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## butch (Mar 25, 2011)

Thanks for all the feedback. It helps me focus my attention on what to do with the topic of Kelligrl. I'm always open to more feedback, though.


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## TraciJo67 (Mar 25, 2011)

butch said:


> Thanks for all the feedback. It helps me focus my attention on what to do with the topic of Kelligrl. I'm always open to more feedback, though.


 
I don't have any meaningful input; I agree with comments that Kelligrl probably became the phenomenon that she is in part because of how successful she was at conveying a level of comfort with her body and her sexuality.

I'm commenting only because I'd love to see your finished work, and hope you will consider making it available online upon completion. It's a fascinating topic choice and I would enjoy seeing the conclusions that you've come to.


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## BlueBurning (Mar 25, 2011)

A bit off topic but does anybody know if there are other academic items be it presentations or papers dealing with SA?


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## Dr. Feelgood (Mar 25, 2011)

TraciJo67 said:


> I'm commenting only because I'd love to see your finished work, and hope you will consider making it available online upon completion. It's a fascinating topic choice and I would enjoy seeing the conclusions that you've come to.



I'd like to add my vote to TraciJo's!:happy:


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## olwen (Mar 25, 2011)

butch said:


> Thanks for all the feedback. It helps me focus my attention on what to do with the topic of Kelligrl. I'm always open to more feedback, though.



It just occurred to me to wonder if FAs would have been as enchanted with Kelligirl if she were black or hispanic or asian. Seems to me like FAs never seem to extol the virtues of webmodels who are minorities. I know they exist but, everyone's faves seem to be white....it's something I just now noticed in thinking about this.


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## chicken legs (Mar 26, 2011)

KG fascinated me because she seemed to enjoy being filmed while being totally decadent and back then it was still new. Plus she had a big sexy smile in most shots and vids. The skinny face and neck to me...meant she could handle a lot more weight and I think that is what caught the eye of most FA's and Feeders.


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## ImSoDead (Mar 26, 2011)

olwen said:


> It just occurred to me to wonder if FAs would have been as enchanted with Kelligirl if she were black or hispanic or asian. Seems to me like FAs never seem to extol the virtues of webmodels who are minorities. I know they exist but, everyone's faves seem to be white....it's something I just now noticed in thinking about this.



Back in the day, Norma Stitz was famous for her huge breasts. And just a few days ago I found a post on another board that compared a model's breasts to Norma's. BTW, Norma is black.

Uniquely Made Diva made headlines with her 99" hips and drop dead gorgeous eyes. She's still a fave of mine and many others. UMD happens to also be black.

Diamond from Mercedes' site is one of if not the prettiest pears out there and has been successfully modeling for more than a decade. She's also an African-American.

Asian SSBBWs are so rare they when they are found, they do get mention. Take the annual Elephant Girl pageant in Thailand each spring. Just wait a few weeks, and someone will be posting about it here.

Goddess Patty is a hispanic and a popular web model. She's one of the few 600lb+ models and has been modeling for a few years. What's amazing to me personally about Patty is she appears to lack lymphedema and that is quite rate (it appears) for 600lb+ people.

Maybe because you don't frequent the paysite forum? If you did, you might see a broader representation of race and ethnicities.

And then there's Latina Heat, BigCutie QutiePie, and so on. Today we have such a variety of models out there that the Kelligirl era pales in comparison.


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## ImSoDead (Mar 26, 2011)

ImSoDead said:


> Back in the day, Norma Stitz was famous for her huge breasts. And just a few days ago I found a post on another board that compared a model's breasts to Norma's. BTW, Norma is black.
> 
> Uniquely Made Diva made headlines with her 99" hips and drop dead gorgeous eyes. She's still a fave of mine and many others. UMD happens to also be black.
> 
> ...


And Rosie Mercado is a hispanic. She's a single mom of three who has her own make up company, does professional modeling, and is a drop dead gorgeous pear! However, she is not a paysite model nor a feedee or gainer. Check out the appreciation thread on the main forum.


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## olwen (Mar 26, 2011)

ImSoDead said:


> Back in the day, Norma Stitz was famous for her huge breasts. And just a few days ago I found a post on another board that compared a model's breasts to Norma's. BTW, Norma is black.
> 
> Uniquely Made Diva made headlines with her 99" hips and drop dead gorgeous eyes. She's still a fave of mine and many others. UMD happens to also be black.
> 
> ...


Yes, I know that there are minority paysite girls. In the early days of magazines like Buf and Plumpers and whatnot I never saw them. We're talking about when Kelligirl was at the height of her popularity, not now. And the fact still remains that FAs always mention paysite models who are white. I'm not up in arms about it, just making an observation that might be relevant to Butch's paper. Intersectionality in fat studies matters.


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## ImSoDead (Mar 26, 2011)

I think you might be on to something. But I do wish to point out that Norma appeared in Plumpers magazine before there was a commercially available Internet. And that Diamond started her career right around the time of Kelligirl. And that Mercedes had the first successful BBW/SSBBW site at the same time and most of her model were and today are black.

Looking at the public gainers, all I can recall are Betsy and Kelligirl. Just two. Not enough of a pool to make any generalizations about race or ethnicity. So perhaps considering race or ethnicity just might be a red herring? It might really be about the lack of choices.


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## Spinalcombo (Mar 26, 2011)

You should ask everyone attending to contribute towards a buffet, then run off with all their cash.

It's what Kelligrl would have wanted.


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## mango (Mar 26, 2011)

olwen said:


> It just occurred to me to wonder if FAs would have been as enchanted with Kelligirl if she were black or hispanic or asian. Seems to me like FAs never seem to extol the virtues of webmodels who are minorities. I know they exist but, everyone's faves seem to be white....it's something I just now noticed in thinking about this.



*I think you may find that Kelligirl was Jewish or Italian (I can't remember which) so that's kind of a minority. 



*


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## KHayes666 (Mar 26, 2011)

olwen said:


> It just occurred to me to wonder if FAs would have been as enchanted with Kelligirl if she were black or hispanic or asian. Seems to me like FAs never seem to extol the virtues of webmodels who are minorities. I know they exist but, everyone's faves seem to be white....it's something I just now noticed in thinking about this.



Big Cutie Lilly

MercedesBBW

Big Cutie QtiePie

Big Cutie Claudia

Lushes Thunder Bombshell

Golden Bombshell

Diva Bombshell


Plenty of "minority" models. I personally don't consider them minority because it doesn't matter what race you are, beautiful is beautiful.


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## The Orange Mage (Mar 26, 2011)

I will add that pretty much all of the feedee/gainer women seem to be white, unless someone can bring proof otherwise?


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## butch (Mar 26, 2011)

Olwen, I think you're on to something-just like part of the Kelligrl appeal seems to be her combination of thin and fat (thin above the torso, fat below the neck), perhaps her whiteness also is part of that appeal, too. Both thinness and whiteness are huge sites of privilege in our culture, and so if Kelligrl is a growing fat girl, the mix of privilege and cultural rebellion on the same body might have heightened her taboo popularity.

One might suggest that the eruption of extreme fat on Kelligrl's body could be read as a rebellion against what 'good girls' (read thin, white) do in our culture, and thus her body becomes a literal representation of the rejection of mainstream (read thin, white), oppressive culture for girls. In other words, Kelligrl is the opposite of all those ED girls Susan Bordo and others write about, who in their schema are desperate to be thin in response to societal messages that seem to enforce patriarchial ideas about women's increasing power in the workplace and in society in general.

I should break out my copy of Unbearable Weight. I should also try and track down the few suggestions I've read in the literature about how fatness has been marked as a 'minority concern,' until fairly recently, and that the rise in 'obesity epidemic' rhetoric is a response to fears of whites increasingly taking on this 'minority trait.' 

Olwen, we need more intersectionality in fat studies, for sure. Glad you brought it up.


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## LifeTraveller (Mar 26, 2011)

While I can't actually add much to the conversation. . KG was very active in the old "Bulge" chatroom, which was a precursor to the Dimensions Chat, although separate.

She had a great number of "fans" who came to try and get an opportunity to chat with her, or chat with whoever claimed to be her. It was an interesting time, I was a subscriber to her "Bulge" magazine. You hear rumors on why people disappear. . I can't really speak to that, I did hear that she has "taken" a person or two for some money, but while quite possible I don't know if there's validity to those claims. .

I can't really add much myself, aside from saying she has indeed reached "Urban Legend" status.


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## joswitch (Mar 26, 2011)

butch said:


> In a month, I'll be presenting a paper at a conference with the title "Kelligrl, the myth, the legend."
> 
> Any suggestions on how I should put this together? Particular webpages, images, ideas about what she represents, what her role is in the SA/FA world, and what role her dissaperance has in her mythic status in the world of fat admiration, or anything else you want me to know about this paper before I put it together?
> 
> Thanks in advance for your thoughts.



You need three slides:
1) a picture of Kelligrl
2) a picture of the Mari Celeste
3) a picture of a bunch of men crying (hint: look for a football match when England lost)

And you're good to go!


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## joswitch (Mar 26, 2011)

Spinalcombo said:


> You should ask everyone attending to contribute towards a buffet, then run off with all their cash.
> 
> It's what Kelligrl would have wanted.



Bwahahahahaha!!


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## JMNYC (Mar 26, 2011)




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## NancyGirl74 (Mar 26, 2011)

I fully own the fact that I hate Kelligrl. I have no reason to hate her personally. I don't know her. I was never a fan. She site or whatever it was faded out well before my time here. So, why do I hate her??? She is or has become the BBW ideal for BBW admiring men everywhere. Like any icon *Pamala Anderson, Marilyn Monroe, etc.* it is impossible to ever meet that ideal. Skinny face? Sure, I could do that from the right angle. 80's hair? Again, I could rock that if I wanted but seriously? 80's hair was barely cool in the 80's. Half naked pics in lacy things in my living room? Been there. Done that. Won't be doing it again. Still, no matter what. no BBW will ever be Kelligrl. That she's held up as the BBW holy grail just annoys the shit out of me.

Besides...NancyGirl is way cooler, anyway.


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## joswitch (Mar 26, 2011)

NancyGirl74 said:


> I fully own the fact that I hate Kelligrl. I have no reason to hate her personally. I don't know her. I was never a fan. She site or whatever it was faded out well before my time here. So, why do I hate her??? *She is or has become the BBW ideal for BBW admiring men everywhere.*



No, no she really isn't.
Back in the day she was one of very few active gainers, and she was pretty, enthusiastic and had a nice smile too = hot for a lot of guys.

(Her "facial thinness" has been wildly overanalysed by people who are really bothered by it. Lots of FAs see beauty in all kinds of face-shapes.)

Then she disappeared, ripping off a few peeps for a few $.
And that's all she wrote.

She just has an Area 51 appeal for some folks, it's not some great (sub)cultural signifier...

Time for everone to GTFOIA, surely?


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## LalaCity (Mar 26, 2011)

I honestly have no idea if the thin face/fat body combination was a pronounced fetish or if was just admired as belonging to her particular type of beauty -- not any better or worse than other fat women's shapes.

If I were to speculate as to why it's seemingly such a desirable trait among certain FAs, I'd wonder if it had something to do with the belief that a thin, more "socially-presentable" face might normalize their preference a bit among their family, their peers.

But that sounds too deep. Maybe it's something more instinctive, more basic, like the novelty of looking at a seemingly thin woman, only to pan down below the neck and discover how her body increasingly expands. It's almost like an inflation fantasy come to life.

Or maybe all of the above is b.s. An FA who was/is attracted to Kelligrl should probably explain, but perhaps none of them want to chime in for fear of giving offense.


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## LalaCity (Mar 26, 2011)

And I would say, Butch, that another angle to perhaps consider regarding Kelligrl is the effect that her popularity initially had among BBWs. It's clear that she made a lot of fat women uncomfortable back in the day for presenting another impossible-to-achieve (for most women) physical "ideal."

It did seem to cause a rift between BBWs and FAs that's taken a while to heal, though I think enough time has passed and enough beautiful fat models of all shapes have come on the scene to ease the anxiety that vexed many a fat girl over the Kelligrl phenomenon.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Mar 26, 2011)

Kelligrl was the first fat woman I ever saw who realized she was sexy and flaunted it. That knocked me out. But her enduring appeal for me is as a pinup. She posed in outfits that left no doubt about her shape, but she never -- as far as I know -- posed nude. She always left something to your imagination, and I have a good imagination. Nude shots can be incredibly sexy, of course, but ... having a woman whisper in your ear is more titillating than having her shout in your face. Kelligrl knew that.


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## LalaCity (Mar 26, 2011)

The legend of her sudden vanishing always made me uneasy. As with any pioneering web presence in the "fetish" or "alternative lifestyle/look" category, her precipitate disappearance was unnerving; did she renounce her lifestyle? Did she fall afoul of an obsessed fan? Did she go on the lam? Did she screw over too many people? Did she come to Jesus? Or was it something far less dramatic than all that?

In any case, it adds another compelling layer to her mythos (or notoriety, depending on how you see it). She's the fat Amelia Earhart, you might say.


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## chicken legs (Mar 26, 2011)

chicken legs said:


> KG fascinated me because she seemed to enjoy being filmed while being totally decadent and back then it was still new. Plus she had a big sexy smile in most shots and vids. The skinny face and neck to me...meant she could handle a lot more weight and I think that is what caught the eye of most FA's and Feeders.





LalaCity said:


> I honestly have no idea if the thin face/fat body combination was a pronounced fetish or if was just admired as belonging to her particular type of beauty -- not any better or worse than other fat women's shapes.
> 
> If I were to speculate as to why it's seemingly such a desirable trait among certain FAs, I'd wonder if it had something to do with the belief that a thin, more "socially-presentable" face might normalize their preference a bit among their family, their peers.
> 
> ...



Hey...I chimed in..dang it


----------



## LalaCity (Mar 26, 2011)

chicken legs said:


> Hey...I chimed in..dang it



You're right! I missed it, somehow. :bow:


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## liz (di-va) (Mar 26, 2011)

Here's a question I have: how much awareness of her do you think there is of her outside feeding/gaining circles--among more mainstream BBW fans? This may be a tricky question to answer given the time when she was active, but I am curious.


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## russianrobot (Mar 26, 2011)

KHayes666 said:


> What a lot of people don't realize was Kelligrl was around back when the paysite/size acceptance/etc market was about 25% of what it is now.



dude you were like what 4 during this so called 'Neolithic' era of BBWs? 

it ceases to amaze me, the inflated view you have of yourself I thought this was about as bad as it gets when you wrote this

*"I carried my 300+ g/f around her yacht saturday afternoon. Bit tough but i still did it lol"

*
from the this thread: http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1684952#post1684952 Post#40

Kevin I actually spit tea through my nose when I read that and its total absurdity.

But no, you have to go and outdo yourself by giving us your 'worldly' advice on BBW's and its culture. 

My biggest fear is turning on the TV one evening and I see Nancy Grace yelling at one of her producers on the ground in MA wanting to know more about this latest nutjob who [insert crime against women here] and all they know is he is a loner who apparently frequented some BBW sites and apparently is a 'feeder' etc etc and then all the good that Conrad has done and all the people who come here and are really good people have a stigma thrown on them because of you and your strange motherfucking ass.


----------



## joswitch (Mar 26, 2011)

russianrobot said:


> dude you were like what 4 during this so called 'Neolithic' era of BBWs?
> 
> it ceases to amaze me, the inflated view you have of yourself I thought this was about as bad as it gets when you wrote this
> 
> ...









Your outburst is of course entirely rational.
/sarcasm


----------



## olwen (Mar 26, 2011)

ImSoDead said:


> I think you might be on to something. But I do wish to point out that Norma appeared in Plumpers magazine before there was a commercially available Internet. And that Diamond started her career right around the time of Kelligirl. And that Mercedes had the first successful BBW/SSBBW site at the same time and most of her model were and today are black.
> 
> Looking at the public gainers, all I can recall are Betsy and Kelligirl. Just two. Not enough of a pool to make any generalizations about race or ethnicity. So perhaps considering race or ethnicity just might be a red herring? It might really be about the lack of choices.





KHayes666 said:


> Big Cutie Lilly
> 
> MercedesBBW
> 
> ...



Fellas, I don't know what any of those models look like, but I do know what kelligirl looks like. So that has to count for something. Oh, and I don't think her religion has any bearing on how people see her in comparison to the fact that she was a gainer. 



butch said:


> Olwen, I think you're on to something-just like part of the Kelligrl appeal seems to be her combination of thin and fat (thin above the torso, fat below the neck), perhaps her whiteness also is part of that appeal, too. Both thinness and whiteness are huge sites of privilege in our culture, and so if Kelligrl is a growing fat girl, the mix of privilege and cultural rebellion on the same body might have heightened her taboo popularity.
> 
> One might suggest that the eruption of extreme fat on Kelligrl's body could be read as a rebellion against what 'good girls' (read thin, white) do in our culture, and thus her body becomes a literal representation of the rejection of mainstream (read thin, white), oppressive culture for girls. In other words, Kelligrl is the opposite of all those ED girls Susan Bordo and others write about, who in their schema are desperate to be thin in response to societal messages that seem to enforce patriarchial ideas about women's increasing power in the workplace and in society in general.
> 
> ...



Butch, I've also noticed that it's whites who are trying to define the discussion about race and fatness too, which rather bothers me. That size doesn't matter as much in black and latino communities is bullshit. I think too when white women notice that they get hit on by lots of minorities that it might have more to do with the fact that they are white than that they are fat. 

I also think it makes sense to frame the intersectionality part of the paper in terms of white privilege and the idea of the "good girl gone wrong" paradigm. In black culture people don't really speak of "good girls gone wrong." People will just say, so and so is "freaky." But then religion was never super important to my parents so we never went to church except for when we went down south, so I could be misinformed somewhat...It's not that the idea of being right with god doesn't exist. It just isn't framed in the same language. I'd think one would also use words like "ghetto," or "country" (in addition to "freaky") to describe bad behavior or rebellious behavior.

The idea of "good girls" and "bad girls" might matter more for hispanics who are catholic however. I'm just not sure.


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## Dromond (Mar 26, 2011)

Having never been into gaining, the whole Kelligrl phenomenon kinda blew right past me. I knew of her, of course, but she wasn't on my radar. Now looking back, it's almost quaint. She's held up as a paragon, and I will grant she was a pioneer, but it seems to me it's like looking back fondly on the TV shows you watched when you were young. You enjoyed them at the time, but watching them now you wonder what the big deal was.


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## Tau (Mar 26, 2011)

olwen said:


> Butch, I've also noticed that it's whites who are trying to define the discussion about race and fatness too, which rather bothers me. That size doesn't matter as much in black and latino communities is bullshit. I think too when white women notice that they get hit on by lots of minorities that it might have more to do with the fact that they are white than that they are fat.



OMG YESYESYESYESYESYES!!!!!!!!


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## Tau (Mar 26, 2011)

The Kelligirl thing leaves me feeling a kind of baffled amusement/sadness. I know that this is not all FAs but it seems a majority of the fat loving men on this site are hung up on fat women they cannot have. Whenever some poor sap resurrects the: whatever happened to Kelligirl question all I can think to myself is: why don't get a life? Why don't you get an actual woman with a thin face and a fat body?? There's lots! Why are you still hung up on an internet fantasy from 19Voestsek??! For pity - and dignity's sake - let it go!! :doh:


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## olwen (Mar 26, 2011)

Tau said:


> The Kelligirl thing leaves me feeling a kind of baffled amusement/sadness. I know that this is not all FAs but it seems a majority of the fat loving men on this site are hung up on fat women they cannot have. Whenever some poor sap resurrects the: whatever happened to Kelligirl question all I can think to myself is: why don't get a life? Why don't you get an actual woman with a thin face and a fat body?? There's lots! Why are you still hung up on an internet fantasy from 19Voestsek??! For pity - and dignity's sake - let it go!! :doh:



Agreed.


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## joswitch (Mar 26, 2011)

Tau said:


> The Kelligirl thing leaves me feeling a kind of baffled amusement/sadness. I know that this is not all FAs but it seems a majority of the fat loving men on this site are hung up on fat women they cannot have. Whenever some poor sap resurrects the: whatever happened to Kelligirl question all I can think to myself is: why don't get a life? Why don't you get an actual woman with a thin face and a fat body?? There's lots! Why are you still hung up on an internet fantasy from 19Voestsek??! For pity - and dignity's sake - let it go!! :doh:



Pretty much my point, about this entire thread really.

(Altho' I suspect some of that^ may have to do with the "forever archived" effect of the Internet. Noobs googling "BBW gainer" or something - finding old Kelligrl pics and not knowing how old they are.)

N.B. to Butch: No offence - I've a lot of respect for you - but maybe it'd be more worthwhile to pick a more up-to-date / relevant topic for your presentation?

I know that the Kelligrl thing has led to many threads on DIMs, but I think it'd be really pushing to draw any general conclusions from her "myth". I reckon anyone outside the "scene" would find it to be a bit storm-in-a-teacup / a whole lotta navel-gazing.


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## olwen (Mar 26, 2011)

joswitch said:


> Pretty much my point, about this entire thread really.
> 
> (Altho' I suspect some of that^ may have to do with the "forever archived" effect of the Internet. Noobs googling "BBW gainer" or something - finding old Kelligrl pics and not knowing how old they are.)
> 
> ...



I think this topic is still important. It documents a particular time in the history of the internet and in what is the online bbw community. She may not represent everyone or mean the same thing to everyone, but here we are still talking about her some 20+ years later. That the internet has changed so much in that time as to make her a drop in the bucket as far as bbw pinups go says something too about how the internet has shaped not only the bbw community - such that it is, but also the fat studies feield itself. Without the internet and blogging, things would be different I'm sure.

So there's something else to consider Butch - how the internet has affected fat sexuality.


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## LalaCity (Mar 26, 2011)

russianrobot said:


> dude you were like what 4 during this so called 'Neolithic' era of BBWs?
> 
> it ceases to amaze me, the inflated view you have of yourself I thought this was about as bad as it gets when you wrote this
> 
> ...



Garrgh. Am I actually about to defend Hayes? I think I am, God help me.

He's caustic. He's infuriating. He's irritating. But he's also, weirdly enough, totally sincere in the things he does and says here. I think that the troll status you're assigning to him, while wildly popular, is incorrect. *Gasp*

He's a low-down motherfucker but smart. In spite of myself I sort of like him. I like you, too, RussianRobot. I hope we can all group fuck someday (not).

Now let's all of us have cake.


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## Dromond (Mar 26, 2011)

Hell just put in an order for snow blowers.


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## FA Punk (Mar 26, 2011)

Mybe this is a bit off topic but where would Kelligrl rank as whole when it comes to internet celebrity? I mean it isn't just Dims who's had ''What ever happened to Kelligrl'' threads, curvage, fat forums, ect, ect, have had there fair share aswell. I have to give the woman some props though, it's been 20 plus years and she still is talked about to this day lol.

What I remember the most about Kelligrl was the fact she was pretty and in the eraly 00's(When I first found Dims!) that was beyond rare! So in a sense if there wasn't a Kelligrl would we have models as good looking as Roxxie or Caitidee? Hmm..mybe not, so in the end I think Kelligrl did alot of good for the paysite community but over all nothing much else.


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## GTAFA (Mar 26, 2011)

olwen said:


> So there's something else to consider Butch - how the internet has affected fat sexuality.



VERY true. I would argue that fat acceptance wouldn't have happened so soon without the www. Members of subcultures can find one another with the help of such things as search engines, blogs, etc., and then discuss & refine who they are, what they believe, stand for etc. I am sure fat acceptance isn't unique in this respect.


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## tonynyc (Mar 27, 2011)

GTAFA said:


> VERY true. I would argue that fat acceptance wouldn't have happened so soon without the www. Members of subcultures can find one another with the help of such things as search engines, blogs, etc., and then discuss & refine who they are, what they believe, stand for etc. I am sure fat acceptance isn't unique in this respect.



*T*he "www." has made it easier to have folks connect ... trouble is that with any advancement in technology something else suffers....


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## russianrobot (Mar 27, 2011)

LalaCity said:


> Garrgh. Am I actually about to defend Hayes? I think I am, God help me.
> 
> He's caustic. He's infuriating. He's irritating. But he's also, weirdly enough, totally sincere in the things he does and says here. I think that the troll status you're assigning to him, while wildly popular, is incorrect. *Gasp*
> 
> ...




the cake is a lie....the cake is a lie, LaLa 

View attachment The_Cake_is_a_Lie_by_IIX4II.jpg


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## ThatFatGirl (Mar 27, 2011)

FA Punk said:


> What I remember the most about Kelligrl was the fact she was pretty and in the eraly 00's(When I first found Dims!) that was beyond rare! So in a sense if there wasn't a Kelligrl would we have models as good looking as Roxxie or Caitidee? Hmm..mybe not, so in the end I think Kelligrl did alot of good for the paysite community but over all nothing much else.



Dude, whuuuut? I think thousands would disagree with you. Pretty and "good looking" are certainly subjective, but come on.. Cat, Brooke, Heather, AnnMarie, Char, TaurusVixen? To name only a _few_... Dimensions was pretty successful a decade ago too.

As for the girls you mentioned - the only circumstance I perceive happening there is the general age of paysite models (and generally ALL people sharing revealing photos of themselves on the internet) seems to be getting younger and younger. This could be the influence of many factors including the expanding waistlines of the population, the availability of technology, _better_ technology and the use of Photoshop editing out all the signs of mature fat girl bits (veins, cellulite, etc), and perhaps fat females are finding more confidence in themselves at an earlier age than they did a decade ago. 

"Kelligrl did alot of good _for_ the paysite community.." I'm almost afraid to go here, but what good are you thinking of? Personally, I struggle with "the good _of_" as I consider my own definitions of porn/objectification and my appreciation of the expression of art and sensuality. My "good" is the influence some of the women I mentioned had in helping me see the beauty in my landscape of rolls and curves.. but if a dildo or breaking of furniture was involved, not so much.


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## Silver Fox (Mar 27, 2011)

I'm late to the conversation here, but have been away from Dims for a couple of weeks. I am one of the older FAs here (I actually had a subscription to FA/SIG and downloaded pictures from Carolyn Owens BBS over a phone internet connection) and I don't know that I can shed much light on what effect KG had (and is still having apparently) on this community, but I can say what effect she had on me. 

First off, I just thought she was a beautiful woman, fat or thin. As was mentioned earlier she had a great smile. And then there's that thin face. From my point of view, I'm a little surprised that the thin-ness of her face gets so much attention. I always thought it was _too_ thin and was glad to see it fill out a little as she got fatter. But the main thing about KG for me was her body! I thought she had a near perfect shape that just kept getting better as she got bigger. There are some pictures of her at her biggest and her legs and especially her thighs are just amazing.

The very first time I saw a picture of her was when she was on the cover of BUF. I thought she was stunning. I bought the mag and then discovered that there was not a single picture of her inside and no mention of her at all. I was very glad to see that she continued a public presence.

And she really did pretty much lead the way in the area of publicly being a feedee/gainer and that really added to her overall interest to an FA. In those days there were very few women who professed to love being fat and wanted to get fatter and that is very attractive to an FA, or at least this FA. In all my years as an FA I have unfortunately never even been in a relationship with a BBW who actually _liked_ being fat. It is difficult for a man to be so attracted to something about a woman that she hates about herself. So when you come across one who celebrates it, relishes it and wants to increase it, well that is just amazing and fantastic for an FA.


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## LalaCity (Mar 27, 2011)

I've seen the photos and even so I'm _still_ not entirely convinced that she isn't just a figment of the overactive FA imagination.


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## joswitch (Mar 27, 2011)

LalaCity said:


> I've seen the photos and even so I'm _still_ not entirely convinced that she isn't just a figment of the overactive FA imagination.



Ah, but haz you seen teh videos??


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## NancyGirl74 (Mar 27, 2011)

joswitch said:


> No, no she really isn't.



First of all, I'm entitled to my opinion. You don't have to agree...but don't correct me. It's annoying for one thing and arrogantly obtuse for another. However, for the sake of keeping you happy allow me to rephrase...Kelligrl has become the ideal BBW/Feedee/Gainer for many FAs. Feel better?

Brace yourself, Jos because I do agree with you in one sense. GTFOIA. What irks me is that yeah people (dare I pinpoint FA males in this case?) DO need to get over it...but they don't. Until they do Kelligrl will remain an annoying nonsense in my eyes. One that makes me  every freakin' time she's mentioned. It's old, she's old, the so-called scandal is old. Move on.


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## FA Punk (Mar 27, 2011)

ThatFatGirl said:


> Dude, whuuuut? I think thousands would disagree with you. Pretty and "good looking" are certainly subjective, but come on.. Cat, Brooke, Heather, AnnMarie, Char, TaurusVixen? To name only a _few_... Dimensions was pretty successful a decade ago too.
> 
> As for the girls you mentioned - the only circumstance I perceive happening there is the general age of paysite models (and generally ALL people sharing revealing photos of themselves on the internet) seems to be getting younger and younger. This could be the influence of many factors including the expanding waistlines of the population, the availability of technology, _better_ technology and the use of Photoshop editing out all the signs of mature fat girl bits (veins, cellulite, etc), and perhaps fat females are finding more confidence in themselves at an earlier age than they did a decade ago.
> 
> "Kelligrl did alot of good _for_ the paysite community.." I'm almost afraid to go here, but what good are you thinking of? Personally, I struggle with "the good _of_" as I consider my own definitions of porn/objectification and my appreciation of the expression of art and sensuality. My "good" is the influence some of the women I mentioned had in helping me see the beauty in my landscape of rolls and curves.. but if a dildo or breaking of furniture was involved, not so much.



I'm sorry I guess I didn't make myself clear enough, Kelligrl was the first model I found to be attractive, hence the statement *''(When I first found Dims!)''*. Now I didn't say Kelligrl was the only pretty girl around just that it was ''rare'', now the women you listed above I did find later on (AnnMarie for the WIN!) but before that all I could find was some hardcore nasty krap lol! 

I'm going to leave the rest of your comment alone cause I think your really over thinking my use of the word ''good'' in this case. But if you want to PM me about it so we can talk about it further that be ok, I'm sorry but I feel if we start talking about this subject here we highjack thread and I rather not do that.


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## tonynyc (Mar 27, 2011)

NancyGirl74 said:


> First of all, I'm entitled to my opinion. You don't have to agree...but don't correct me. It's annoying for one thing and arrogantly obtuse for another. However, for the sake of keeping you happy allow me to rephrase...Kelligrl has become the ideal BBW/Feedee/Gainer for many FAs. Feel better?
> 
> Brace yourself, Jos because I do agree with you in one sense. GTFOIA. What irks me is that yeah people (dare I pinpoint FA males in this case?) DO need to get over it...but they don't. Until they do Kelligrl will remain an annoying nonsense in my eyes. One that makes me  every freakin' time she's mentioned. It's old, she's old, the so-called scandal is old. Move on.



*A*nd may I add... as annoying as this 







And that is pretty fucking annoying...


*
But getting back to topic - I guess the one avenue one could look at is how the business has changed....*


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## LalaCity (Mar 27, 2011)

FA Punk said:


> I'm sorry I guess I didn't make myself clear enough, Kelligrl was the first model I found to be attractive, hence the statement *''(When I first found Dims!)''*. Now I didn't say Kelligrl was the only pretty girl around just that it was ''rare'', now the women you listed above I did find later on (AnnMarie for the WIN!) but before that all I could find was some hardcore nasty krap lol!
> 
> I'm going to leave the rest of your comment alone cause I think your really over thinking my use of the word ''good'' in this case. But if you want to PM me about it so we can talk about it further that be ok, I'm sorry but I feel if we start talking about this subject here we highjack thread and I rather not do that.



Aww, that was a nice response. It almost erases the image of you shredding George and Kirstie the way a Citibank exec dispatches internal balance sheets. Almost, but not quite.


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## LalaCity (Mar 27, 2011)

Butch, promise me you'll name your presentation "The Kelligrl Konundrum." 

To make me and other alliteration enthusiasts happy.


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## CastingPearls (Mar 27, 2011)

LalaCity said:


> Butch, promise me you'll name your presentation "The Kelligrl Konundrum."
> 
> To make me and other alliteration enthusiasts happy.


She has a drop a vowel from "Konundrum' to make it all authentic and shit.


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## LalaCity (Mar 27, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> She has a drop a vowel from "Konundrum' to make it all authentic and shit.



Right, that should have been "Konundrm." Good catch!


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## CleverBomb (Mar 27, 2011)

LalaCity said:


> Butch, promise me you'll name your presentation "The Kelligrl Konundrum."
> 
> To make me and other alliteration enthusiasts happy.


Alliteration addicts: always advocating amiability.
-Rusty


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## LalaCity (Mar 27, 2011)

CleverBomb said:


> Alliteration addicts: always advocating amiability.
> -Rusty



requires rigorous reppage!


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## penguin (Mar 27, 2011)

liz (di-va) said:


> Here's a question I have: how much awareness of her do you think there is of her outside feeding/gaining circles--among more mainstream BBW fans? This may be a tricky question to answer given the time when she was active, but I am curious.



I'd never heard of her until this thread. I don't pay much attention to the paysite board, and I'm not into feeding/gaining, so all of that has swept right by me.


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## FA Punk (Mar 27, 2011)

LalaCity said:


> Aww, that was a nice response. It almost erases the image of you shredding George and Kirstie the way a Citibank exec dispatches internal balance sheets. Almost, but not quite.


Meh..Oh well lol:happy:


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## bigsexy920 (Mar 27, 2011)

I mentioned this thread to some people that are from Dims yesterday. My thoughts on Kelligirl are.... That she seems to be the perfect "dead" wife that no other woman could ever live up to. 


Does that make sense at all. Like men saw her as perfection and there is no way anyone else could be as GREAT as her !!!!


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## CastingPearls (Mar 27, 2011)

bigsexy920 said:


> I mentioned this thread to some people that are from Dims yesterday. My thoughts on Kelligirl are.... That she seems to be the perfect "dead" wife that no other woman could ever live up to.
> 
> 
> Does that make sense at all. Like men saw her as perfection and there is no way anyone else could be as GREAT as her !!!!


I've been thinking since this thread began that she's sort of (for some FAs at least) a member of the cult of dead celebrities ie; Marilyn Monroe, James Dean, Elvis, even people have said Anna Nicole Smith, to name a few where many thought they died (or in Kelligrl's case, disappeared) before their time or while still young (choose your 'died too soon') and achieved mythical status--people are still claiming to see Elvis. Some people think Tupac is still alive, this or that was a conspiracy--Michael Jackson was FRAMED etc. etc. ad nauseum--IMO Kelligrl is just an extension of wishful thinking in memorium.


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## BlueBurning (Mar 27, 2011)

Why did Kelligirl become this mythical figure? Was it really because of her appearance? Or did her kind of dropping off the face of the earth play a major part?


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## russianrobot (Mar 28, 2011)

On 0830 Wednesday, November, 16 2005 she entered here

http://www.obesitytreatmentcentersofnewjersey.com/index.html

At 1530 Friday, November, 18 2005 she left.


I hope this helps your presentation.


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## butch (Mar 28, 2011)

russianrobot said:


> On 0830 Wednesday, November, 16 2005 she entered here
> 
> http://www.obesitytreatmentcentersofnewjersey.com/index.html
> 
> ...



That is interesting, but the presentation isn't a biography of Kelligrl, but an examination of how the image (or the brand, or the icon) of Kelligrl circulates in this subculture, and how this image has impacted size acceptance, fat sexuality, etc.

The core point is: why does Kelligrl still resonate, why did she make the impact she did, and are there larger implications for the effect she had/has on subcultural communities of size acceptance and/or fat sexuality. Ultimately, I'm interested in how Kelligrl represents ideas and motives and core values of the subculture as a whole. She is a synecdoche, perhaps, of the fat pride community, and so she is the wedge that helps me argue something more totalizing, perhaps, about the communities she is/was affiliated with.


The discussion on this thread has been really helpful, and thank you all for participating. Lots of food for thought.

Alas, the title has already been enshrined in the conference catalogue, Lala, but perhaps if it ever has a second life, I can take your excellent suggestion and re-name it.


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## Silver Fox (Mar 28, 2011)

Maybe you could video your presentation and put it on youtube.


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## KHayes666 (Mar 29, 2011)

butch said:


> That is interesting, but the presentation isn't a biography of Kelligrl, but an examination of how the image (or the brand, or the icon) of Kelligrl circulates in this subculture, and how this image has impacted size acceptance, fat sexuality, etc.
> 
> The core point is: *why does Kelligrl still resonate*, why did she make the impact she did, and are there larger implications for the effect she had/has on subcultural communities of size acceptance and/or fat sexuality. Ultimately, I'm interested in how Kelligrl represents ideas and motives and core values of the subculture as a whole. She is a synecdoche, perhaps, of the fat pride community, and so she is the wedge that helps me argue something more totalizing, perhaps, about the communities she is/was affiliated with.
> 
> ...



Why do people still talk about Kareem Abdul Jabbar when he's been retired from basketball for almost 25 years? Why do people still talk about The Ultimate Warrior when he hasn't wrestled a DECENT match in just over 20? Why do people still talk about George Plympton, Robert B Parker, Michael Creighton and other dead authors long after they pass away? Because people can appreciate and respect the work they've done no matter what. Sure Celtics fans want to dropkick Kareem around but you can't take away his accomplishments.

That's Kelligrl in a nutshell. She wasn't an angel but she did spearhead the paysite industry while Dimensions boomed with business. A lot of women have already admitted to being jealous because they're unfairly compared to her or told they'll never be her. Then you got the white knights that make fun of Kelligrl only to look good for women on this board but that's an argument for another day. Point is, yes she screwed a lot of people over back in the day. Yes, she hasn't done a damn thing in this community since some of the paysite models were in elementary school. She was, however, one of the most successful paysite models of all time and a lot of people remember that.


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## joswitch (Mar 29, 2011)

ftr - I'm not making fun of Kelligrrl. I'm making fun of peeps ongoing obsession with Kelligrrl (well, a little bit anyway).

There is a difference. 


But I'm sure you weren't thinkin' of me when you said "white-knight" anyway... Bwahahahahaha!

Yes, I am drunk atm....


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## UDP13 (Mar 29, 2011)

I think it's more about the "firsts" for a lot of people.

Most here will remember their first love or first time they won a sporting grand final a lot more vividly or at least hold a more special place in their heart than the 2nd one. I play an MMO and a lot of people still talk about original Everquest because it was their first MMO. Younger people talk about WoW in the same way.

I believe the same thing can be said about Kellygrl. For a lot of people here she may have been the first feeder or first "celebrity" or even internet bbw that was confident in themselves. There were others as has been mentioned but it seemed that she was around more. 

For myself who was reading PBW before that, she does not really fall into this category for me. She was quite attractive and had a great body but I probably have the "firsts" feeling for others


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## joswitch (Mar 30, 2011)

bigsexy920 said:


> I mentioned this thread to some people that are from Dims yesterday. My thoughts on Kelligirl are.... That she seems to be the perfect "dead" wife that no other woman could ever live up to.
> 
> 
> Does that make sense at all. Like men saw her as perfection and there is no way anyone else could be as GREAT as her !!!!



Just say NO to necrophilia!


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## Tad (Mar 31, 2011)

I never found kelligrl all that interesting, but I was certainly around during her rise and disapearance, so I wanted to reply to a couple of things mentioned here. 



LifeTraveller said:


> While I can't actually add much to the conversation. . KG was very active in the old "Bulge" chatroom, which was a precursor to the Dimensions Chat, although separate.



Actually....Dimensions chat came first. Individual chat rooms seem to rise and fall in popularity, and the 'main' Dimensions chat room had become mostly dead and everyone ended up in the 'gaining' (I forget the exact name) chat room, turning it into general chat....and over time it too began to decline. That was when KG opened her own site, and put up a chat room (using the same software as on Dimensions), and those who wanted to talk fat and gaining topics without upsetting those who didn't like those topics nor being made to feel bad for talking about those topics moved to the chat room on Bulge for the most part. 

That she created a whole web site around her "Bulge" project no doubt helped her popularity. It was not quite the Oprah Winfrey network (by a factor of a million or billion or something), but I think the same general concept applies--even if the channel is not all about you, the fact that you are associated with it helps add to your perceived importance.




ThatFatGirl said:


> Dude, whuuuut? I think thousands would disagree with you. Pretty and "good looking" are certainly subjective, but come on.. Cat, Brooke, Heather, AnnMarie, Char, TaurusVixen? To name only a _few_... Dimensions was pretty successful a decade ago too.



Personally I think part of her appeal was that she was especially beautiful. She had a nice smile and perfectly reasonable looks, but maybe more in the 'attractive woman next door' sort of way? Between that and the fact that she started off more or less as 'just another poster' perhaps might have made her seem more accessible or something?

And (not to the above quotes), as several others have noted, there was not so many people open about enjoying gaining at the time. There had been a few, but at the time it was probably few enough that anyone interested in that knew all of their names. Most likely any of them could have developed a very devoted following if they cultivated it, but mostly they did not, while KG did. Personally I think it was more that she found a way to tap into an existing demand, rather than that she somehow magically created an interest because she was so special.

All just my recollections and opinions, the former may be faulty and the latter are worth what you paid for them.


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## jonah-uk (Mar 31, 2011)

KHayes666 said:


> She was, however, one of the most successful paysite models of all time and a lot of people remember that.



she never had a pay site - it was just a free GeoCities homepage, with maybe 100 photos by the end? she also sold a photocopied(?) magazine/newsletter called 'Bulge' with i think had some exclusive pics, stories, and recipes (i never saw a copy). the fuss over money was that people were still owed issues of this when she disappeared. there was a 'Bulge' message board too, but i don't think it got used much.

most of the BBW models around back then taking 'soft' pictures just had free homepages,


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## Spanky (Mar 31, 2011)

tonynyc said:


> *A*nd may I add... as annoying as this
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I saw what you did there . Kelligrl is crying somewhere in her Iggles jersey. 


At least in my own mind.


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## tonynyc (Mar 31, 2011)

Spanky said:


> I saw what you did there . Kelligrl is crying somewhere in her Iggles jersey.
> 
> 
> At least in my own mind.



Though I suspect your vision of the fair Kelligirl would be would be wearing this ...














*Madoff inspired jersey* :happy:


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## NancyGirl74 (Apr 2, 2011)

Spanky said:


> I saw what you did there . Kelligrl is crying somewhere in her Iggles jersey.
> 
> 
> At least in my own mind.





tonynyc said:


> Though I suspect your vision of the fair Kelligirl would be would be wearing this ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Alright you two...don't go NFLing up the Kelligrl thread. Take your helmets and ball and go home to think about your actions.





PS: All girls cry if while wearing an Eagles jersey, Spanky...even the mythological ones.


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## tonynyc (Apr 2, 2011)

NancyGirl74 said:


> Alright you two...don't go NFLing up the Kelligrl thread. Take your helmets and ball and go home to think about your actions.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes plenty to cry about.... though I wonder if this thread brings "tears of laughter" or just plain "tears of disgust" ..... 


Wanders over to the NFL Thread .....


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## KHayes666 (Apr 2, 2011)

Kelligrl > Glee

Oh I went there


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## tonynyc (Apr 2, 2011)

KHayes666 said:


> Kelligrl > Glee
> 
> Oh I went there








*you certainly did....*


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