# worry as an FA



## Fat Molly

hi friends

so i'm in the delightful position of dating a SSBHM who is absolutely divine. while not interested in feederism on his own behalf, he's around 500lbs with an overwhelmingly excellent appetite, and he's attracted to this plump small-fat FA. 

there was a thread on another board where we were discussing FA/FFA issues re: weight loss of partner. and I wrote that i'm feeling pretty excited at prospect of partner losing weight.

there's a lot of little things that i want to do that i can't do with him, like going on walks, going camping, going swimming, buying him clothes more easily (he's outgrown most big and tall store offerings), spending more time out of the house, and fucking me deeper/with less awkward maneuvering. i feel like our life is kinda on hold bc of his weight and it terrifies me that one day i might get a call that he's in the hospital. or that his heart might fail while we're hanging out and that i'll have to call the ambulance and explain the situation that he's too big for an ambulance. 

I'm insanely attracted to him now but I don't think that would go away if he lost a hundred pounds. even two hundred pounds i think, given he's nearly 500lbs if not over. 

i like him squishy and i also like him enough to want him to stick around. and because of his size, he's got a bee in his bonnet that he refuses to go for annual checkups until he loses weight, which makes me quite concerned. i want to get his bloodwork done to see if he needs meds for various cholesterol/sugars. i'm not focusing on weight loss - he really is. i've told him i'm along for the ride, whatever makes the most sense for him. but as he's expressed his own concerns re: his weight, i've affirmed the positive aspects of losing weight in reference to his own life. 

i've articulated (extremely carefully) these concerns, months ago, and he appreciates and validates them but also is dealing with alternate sources of external stress. he just got laid off from his dream job, and dealt with some significant depression as a result of that. also his dream job had weird insurance that was very unclear how to access care. 

very soon he should be getting on new, more straightforward insurance, and I feel like I want to pester him to go to the doctor JUST TO GET THAT BLOODWORK DONE, but I also know that I can't compel him to do that. he feels like any bloodwork he might get done would be negligible because of a sense that 'if i just lose weight my bloodwork will be good again/normal again so whats the point of going to doc to analyze blood bc losing weight will fix those problematic metrics." and i'm just like ARGHGHGH weight loss won't solve all your problems if you're having problems right now and you're not taking care of them!!!!! 

in particular: here's what's going on in his head right now from how i understand it 

a) until he's got new job he won't consider doing *anything* for his health including doctor visit, exercise, or weight loss. he has it in his head that he can't exercise until he loses weight, which i've not had success getting him to realize. and again he won't see a doctor because he feels like it'd be useless 
b) he's not really working super hard on getting new job, from what i can tell. :doh: a part of this is depression about how fucked up our world is right now, but I know a part of this is also internal resistance to his own resolution to start dieting once he has a paycheck again.

I'm trying so hard to balance my concern for him with my respect for his being an adult who can make his own decisions. 

he experiences suicidal depression and so do I. both of us self-harm through eating, though we both also experience great pleasure through eating/overeating. (for me it's much more sexual than it is for him.) 

he's getting connected to appropriate mental health care since right now he claims to feel fine, despite everything. i have done some stuff to facilitate that, and am gently nudging him to keep working on moving forward despite everything. 

i could use some thoughts/support/love as i'm trying to balance on the edge of this challenge, and i want to be optimally compassionate without also being complacent and allowing him to be complacent. like i know i need to push but i also need to not push too much, and i'm terrified that i'm going to just let him die by accident. but i also know THIS IS NOT MY CHOICE and THIS IS NOT SOMETHING I CAN CONTROL. This is stuff he, as an adult, must choose to address/not address. I love him and I know he feels better about his life with me in it, and my life is better with him in it, too. 

but i know life would be better for both of us if he were just a bit thinner, more energetic, more able-bodied. not super thin, of course, we're both endomorphs, but i need him to be healthier, even as much (or more) than i need him squishy and soft and lovely to cuddle. 

god damnit why have i made my life so difficult by falling so hard for someone so tricky? 

also: i'm a social worker, which has been both a blessing and a curse through this mess. also, he's started really taking seriously my worry about his sleep schedule, and has actually stopped drinking caffeine after 4pm, which has taken a massive load off my shoulders in terms of worrying about him. being SSBHM + excessive caffeine abuse + massively fucked up sleep schedule has been pretty scary to watch. but past week or two he has sorted it out and begun to be better regulated. 

incremental progress is incremental but DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT I just want to get things on track for him, manually, and I can't, and it's frustrating.


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## Dr. Feelgood

You want good thoughts? You got 'em!

Your post shows that you fully understand the situation, and you're handling it in a sensitive, intelligent, mature way. Frustrating as hell, tho, isn't it? My wife had a back operation a couple of weeks ago, she's having to wear a back brace, the doctor told her to go easy and not push herself, and ... she's decided she's Supergirl! At least she hasn't tried to fly yet. My situation isn't as tough as yours, but I appreciate your frustration, and ... you and your honey are in my thoughts.


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## Fat Molly

thanks i really appreciate the positive thoughts. 

coincidence!! I also have been on mandated bedrest for my back!!! like right now I'm supposed to be Not Socialworker Superwoman and guess what I'm basically in your wife's position. i'm wearing my back brace and hobbling along with a cane, of all things (new for me). 

"Your post shows that you fully understand the situation, and you're handling it in a sensitive, intelligent, mature way. Frustrating as hell, tho, isn't it? "

Thanks for the validation & solidarity, I really super duper need it, and it's so hard to see someone you love struggling to take care of themselves in the ways they aspire to. <3 it certainly is frustrating as hell. so frustrating. so so frustrating....


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## agouderia

Just an idea - not sure if it is doable in the US at a reasonable cost.

In most European countries, either pharmacies and/or small labs offer bloodwork-testing against relatively moderate fees. (Depending on what you get done and where it starts with like &#8364;10 for blood sugar & cholesterol)

You get a blood sample taken, say what you want/need analyzed and then get the results with a reference list of what is within the norm.

It saves the psychologically challenging visit to the doctor - and let's you know where you stand. Either that everything is more or less okay and you can concentrate on getting things back in line. Or it shows you if something is really wrong with the kick-in-the-ass to go see a doctor.

How everything works out for you two and you get better soon!


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## Tad

Better sleep is a huge step all on its own. Reduces a bunch of health risks and hopefully will lead to more energy and focus, which might be the catalyst for other changes or improvements.

It certainly sounds like he is procrastinating on making changes. At a guess those changes all sound unpleasant, dreary, ... and long-term. I don't know him, but just to speculate -- he's probably not super happy about certain aspects of his life (lack of money, difficulty in doing things), but comfortable in others (eating what he likes, not doing painful and difficult things, not too much in his schedule, dating you, etc). 

Most of the changes that he would be facing will be less comfortable and pleasant (eating less of what he likes and maybe more things he doesn't care for as much; exercising -- which he may associate with pain, discomfort, and embarrassment; and need to discipline and schedule his life to make those food and exercise things happen.) AND those changes are not 'put up with two months of bother for a lasting benefit', no, they are a permanent crimp in his lifestyle. AND any benefits are not guaranteed, uncertain in degree, long term, and incremental in their benefit.

So I can totally understand why it could be that he may know that he needs to make these changes, but really not be eager to start them. (and for reference, I know that as we age we lose strength and muscle mass, and I'm totally going to start doing some more serious strength based exercises ... once I turn fifty, over a year from now  )

I also understand that from your side this must be incredibly frustrating! You don't know if he'll ever make the changes, and you know he's risking himself every day in not making the changes.

I think that in some ways this is a pretty classic relationship dilemma. The fat dresses it up differently, but when you come right down to it the _dynamic_ is similar to things that many couples deal with. And I'm guessing that there are a lot of resources in print and on-line with all sorts of advice on ways to cope with and potentially help resolve such situations.

I'm going to toss out one idea of my own, although I'm under no illusions that I have a magic solution to the situation.

He's made changes to get better sleep. That is great, both for the sake of the change and that he's made a change for his health. Perhaps you can leverage that to help him build up the habit and skills at making changes in his life, without taking on those big issues immediately?

By way of examples:

- perhaps when you are together you could get him to do relaxation exercises with you, or meditation, or something like that. There are all sorts of scripts (and recordings) that you can follow on relaxation things, typically a sequence of regulating your breathing, then tightening and releasing various muscles, and more breathing -- it hopefully relaxes tight muscles, helps you identify areas that won't relax, and puts you more in touch with your breathing and your body in general. 

- flossing, if he doesn't already. Just doing that before bed every night is a good habit to develop, so dentists have always told me. And it is a small, easy, habit to develop, but another step on getting in the habit of what needs to get done every day, etc.

- Stretching. Probably a lot of traditional stretches are hard for him because fat, but I'm sure that between the two of you and some research you could find or develop some that do work. With his weight I'd think especially calf, thigh, and lower back work could be valuable in reducing or preventing pain. Doing these regularly may make life more comfortable, better prepare him for doing more exercise, and honestly they will probably be a bit of exercise in their own right at his weight. (can combine with massage when you are with him  )

- Reading nutrition information on food. Not necessarily making changes, but getting in the habit of knowing the nutrition information (and ingredients) of bought food. Sometimes that can drive some changes on its own when you read all the crap that is in some processed food, but at the least it is educational, and helps build a habit that is important if he ever does try to change his diet.

I hope any of this helps, but mostly sending 'be strong, be patient' vibes your way!


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## socrates74

I am skeptical.
It is not that I don't want you to succeed. I just don't think you can "love-a-partner-into-motivation/change".
---------------
I think it would be neglect* to puff your up your hopes. This becomes a rescue mission and " being in love with a partner's potential". It has lots of pitfalls (despite its good intentions).

*neglect by staying silent.


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## Dr. Feelgood

socrates74 said:


> I am skeptical.
> It is not that I don't want you to succeed. I just don't think you can "love-a-partner-into-motivation/change".
> ---------------
> I think it would be neglect* to puff your up your hopes. This becomes a rescue mission and " being in love with a partner's potential". It has lots of pitfalls (despite its good intentions).
> 
> *neglect by staying silent.



I understand your point, and I agree that you can't love a partner into motivation. But neglect by staying silent cuts both ways. If I understand her post correctly, Molly _can't_ be silent without feeling that she is neglecting her partner's best interests. If she were to let it go, and he were to encounter a health crisis, she might feel that she is somehow guilty. I applaud her efforts because I believe they are in _her_ best interests as well as his.


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## Fat Molly

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I understand your point, and I agree that you can't love a partner into motivation. But neglect by staying silent cuts both ways. If I understand her post correctly, Molly _can't_ be silent without feeling that she is neglecting her partner's best interests. If she were to let it go, and he were to encounter a health crisis, she might feel that she is somehow guilty. I applaud her efforts because I believe they are in _her_ best interests as well as his.




Thanks for validation on this - I do feel seen. 

If he were to encounter a health crisis I would feel guilty for enabling - and encouraging - his selfdeleterious behaviors. 

I have half a mind to show him this thread - particularly Tad's thoughtful response, which I'm processing presently - but I feel like that might be overkill and make him feel worse. Thoughts? 

Again I simultaneously feel like I'm walking multiple difficult lines.

A) I'm really enjoying my own weight gain, but my weight doesn't really impact my ability to do things I care about (at least for right now)
B) I desperately enjoy feeding my man and indulging his humongous appetite 
C) I desperately enjoy his body the way it is, and would support him in gaining more if that's what ended up happening, but I would be happier for his health and livelihood if he lost weight. Because he would be happier, and would be able to live life much more fully, I also would be happier. 
D) I don't want him to become immobile, he doesn't want that for himself. 
E) he doesn't want to weigh himself because it would end up making him confront things he doesn't want to confront, and he doesn't want me observing when he's gained weight "I don't want to feel like I'm eating myself into an early grave" is what he said last week. Though granted that is pretty much the agenda that is unconsciously going on.
F) on some level I feel like joining him in eating recklessly, gaining an excessive amount of weight to the point I'm starting to flirt with immobility, as he is. And I somewhat enjoy the fantasy of joining together in a vortex of self destructive eating and falling apart together. It'd be fucking romantic in a Tristan and Isolde way. Like let us both drown in our sorrow and our fatness, together. We have similar family issues and stuff and similar perspectives on the uselessness of living - and neither of us is firmly convinced of the benefits of living. Our depression symptoms are better for both of us since starting dating, but mental illness is hard in general.


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## dwesterny

Check his blood pressure at the very least. You can do it in supermarkets and drug stores. You can buy a glucose meter, maybe convince him to take a baby aspirin. I'm over 500 and my annual blood work is fine every year but if I didn't have my blood pressure under control with medication and my sleep apnea treated I would have big problems. Also make sure he gets a flu shot.

Ultimately though he just needs to get his ass to the doctor for a physical. Just make him an appointment and tell him you're taking him out for steaks then drive him to the doctors office.


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## Fat Molly

dwesterny said:


> Check his blood pressure at the very least. You can do it in supermarkets and drug stores. You can buy a glucose meter, maybe convince him to take a baby aspirin. I'm over 500 and my annual blood work is fine every year but if I didn't have my blood pressure under control with medication and my sleep apnea treated I would have big problems. Also make sure he gets a flu shot.
> 
> Ultimately though he just needs to get his ass to the doctor for a physical. Just make him an appointment and tell him you're taking him out for steaks then drive him to the doctors office.



Seriously tho deception isn't my MO. I might get him to take baby aspirin.


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## dwesterny

Get his blood pressure checked. It's easy to do and uncontrolled blood pressure can do a lot of long term damage.


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## Marlayna

Fat Molly said:


> thanks i really appreciate the positive thoughts.
> 
> coincidence!! I also have been on mandated bedrest for my back!!! like right now I'm supposed to be Not Socialworker Superwoman and guess what I'm basically in your wife's position. i'm wearing my back brace and hobbling along with a cane, of all things (new for me).
> 
> "Your post shows that you fully understand the situation, and you're handling it in a sensitive, intelligent, mature way. Frustrating as hell, tho, isn't it? "
> 
> Thanks for the validation & solidarity, I really super duper need it, and it's so hard to see someone you love struggling to take care of themselves in the ways they aspire to. <3 it certainly is frustrating as hell. so frustrating. so so frustrating....


You can't fix anyone, no matter how much you love him. All you can really do is lead by example... that means healthy eating in moderate amounts, and finding other things to share and enjoy besides eating. Maybe he should look into WLS. I know it's a "dirty word" around here, but it has helped many people. Good luck.


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## RealMe

I'm new here and this whole thread confuses me. Fat Molly, why are you on a fat acceptance group asking how to get your bf to lose 200 pounds?? I think you are much too obsessed with his body size and are behaving like 99% of society and judging his health based on his size. You "love him and don't want him to die"... gee, where have we heard that before? Everywhere! I came to this site to avoid people like that.  

He's a grown man and has responded to all of your "concerns" and will make his own choices, now stop obsessing over his health and focus on fixing yourself.


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## HereticFA

RealMe said:


> I'm new here and this whole thread confuses me. Fat Molly, why are you on a fat acceptance group asking how to get your bf to lose 200 pounds?? I think you are much too obsessed with his body size and are behaving like 99% of society and judging his health based on his size. You "love him and don't want him to die"... gee, where have we heard that before? Everywhere! I came to this site to avoid people like that.
> 
> He's a grown man and has responded to all of your "concerns" and will make his own choices, now stop obsessing over his health and focus on fixing yourself.


Hi RealMe, I'm not sure about Fat Molly's background but I can tell you there's several of us here with decades of experience in Fat Acceptance. Her concerns are very valid since our more supersize folks leave us early, sometimes before age 50, and the gourmands occasionally leave us before age 40. As much as I love the fantasy of weight not having an impact on health, the evidence to the contrary is overwhelming.

Unfortunately Dims stopped being a "safe space" for fat acceptance over a decade ago. It's become an environment of "size acceptance" instead. A seemingly subtle but meaningful change in atmosphere.


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## HereticFA

I feel your pain Fat Molly. Obviously you're a FFA who's found her fantasy but you recognize the realities on the horizon. It's really just a variation on the classic FA conflict of desires vs guilt. You've got all the elements of what's important and the personal skills to know what isn't possible.

The only thing I might add is despite your best efforts and possible success, you or your love may still have the bad outcomes you want so desperately to avoid. I'm deep in the middle of that situation myself right now. 

The main thing to keep in mind is you and your love are each on your own paths. Enjoy the time you walk together but learn to accept you may not have the same destinations.

As for doing his own initial health assessments, that's a pretty decent idea. Just be prepared if his BG levels are high (over 120). That pretty well dictates immediately seeking professional healthcare without delay.

As for the BP measurements, if he has a larger arm make sure you use an adult thigh cuff or an obese cuff and not the stock cuff that comes with a BP system. Otherwise it will probably read significantly high. The free BP systems are usually out of the question for that reason. I've seen them read 40 to 60 points too high on a larger arm.


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## dwesterny

You can take BP from the forearm rather than use a thigh cuff.


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## RealMe

HereticFA said:


> Unfortunately Dims stopped being a "safe space" for fat acceptance over a decade ago. It's become an environment of "size acceptance" instead. A seemingly subtle but meaningful change in atmosphere.



I have no idea what you are trying to say. lol. Did I use the wrong word? She wants him to lose 200lbs of size (not fat)? There are people who call themselves Fat Admirers here but it's not a fat acceptance group. I'm confused. Shouldn't they be called Size Admirers now?

So a forum for "size acceptance" as long as the person can still do all the things Molly enjoys, but larger than that then size modification is on the agenda: "there's a lot of little things that i want to do that i can't do with him, like going on walks, going camping, going swimming, buying him clothes more easily (he's outgrown most big and tall store offerings), spending more time out of the house, and fucking me deeper/with less awkward maneuvering."


I'll try to get hip with the times and use the right terminology in the future.


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## RealMe

If her bf was here asking for support to lose weight that would be one thing. But for her asking how to get him to lose weight... it really is such a typical thing that us large people have to deal with in a relationships and I'm sad to see it here in this forum.


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## RealMe

HereticFA said:


> our more supersize folks leave us early, sometimes before age 50, and the gourmands occasionally leave us before age 40.



Do you believe they died young because they didn't have people telling them they need to lose weight? Or they never watched the news and knew there was risk of being overweight? Did they die because a loved one didn't judge them enough and nag them to go to the doctor? Or because society didn't tell them they were a ticking time bomb about to die? Or they died because they went out in public and nobody looked at them strange or pointed and laughed. Clearly they died because not enough people told them that being obese has health risks.


I apologize for the many posts, thoughts keep coming to my mind.


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## RealMe

Molly, I apologize for being harsh. But I was serious when I said you should focus on fixing yourself. You seem to be on a path of self destruction with unrestricted weight gain. And unless you want to be like your boyfriend in the future you should get it under control and stop gaining weight. The body will create new fat cells when all the fat cells are full. But the body keeps the fat cells forever and they don't go away when you lose weight. They may empty but they don't go away and they are hanging around taking up space and energy. In other words, once you build fat, you don't go back. Fat cells on your liver, your heart, anywhere will always be there.

"Even after marked weight loss, the body never loses adipocytes. As a rule, to facilitate changes in weight, the adipocytes in the body merely gain or lose fat content. However, if the adipocytes in the body reach their maximum capacity of fat, they may replicate to allow additional fat storage."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adipocyte


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## Fat Molly

I'm trying with all my might to avoid saying Fuck You to @Realme. I've been a confirmed FFA for over a decade - just look at my join date, that's five years after I began lurking these forums - and you have the gall to say the things you're saying? Seriously? 

I am not saying I want him to lose weight per se, though it would make me glad to see him participate in the things that *he* wants to do outside of the house. His depression is worsened by his weight, and his weight worsens his ability to do things to alleviate his depression, and the cycle is awful. I want to make sure he gets his friggen blood pressure and glucose levels checked. 

Moreover *I'm* maintaining my own medical situation with my eyes wide open, thank you very much. With recent gains I'm going to doctor at least every couple months and monitoring health very closely. My own blood pressure (for those who are counting) is perfect according to every visit I've had to the doctor in the past 2months. Like the past three readings have been 120/80 every single time. So no, I'm not going down some unrestricted "path of self destruction." 

I'm ignoring your posts on this topic from now on, RealMe. 

................... 

Thanks Heretic. "I feel your pain Fat Molly. Obviously you're a FFA who's found her fantasy but you recognize the realities on the horizon." That's me. Yep. True facts. 

"The only thing I might add is despite your best efforts and possible success, you or your love may still have the bad outcomes you want so desperately to avoid. I'm deep in the middle of that situation myself right now." I'd like to hear more about the challenges you're experiencing and what that's like. 

"The main thing to keep in mind is you and your love are each on your own paths. Enjoy the time you walk together but learn to accept you may not have the same destinations." 
That's the thing that breaks my heart, and that I'm really looking for support in here. I know we may not end up in the same place and that makes me sad. 

"As for doing his own initial health assessments, that's a pretty decent idea. Just be prepared if his BG levels are high (over 120). That pretty well dictates immediately seeking professional healthcare without delay." THIS IS MY PRIMARY CONCERN. I wouldn't be posting this if he'd been to the doctor in the past six months and got a clean bill of health - or even was told 'here you need to take metformin but it'll keep everything in check.' 

Instead, when I asked him, he couldn't remember the last time he had a BP reading. My guess based on hx is that it was in August 2015, when he started rapidly gaining a massive amount of weight, like a hundred pounds on his already quite-heavy figure. (The reason for this acceleration = trauma and mental health stuff that isn't pertinent to this conversation.)


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## Fat Molly

RealMe said:


> I have no idea what you are trying to say. lol. Did I use the wrong word? She wants him to lose 200lbs of size (not fat)? There are people who call themselves Fat Admirers here but it's not a fat acceptance group. I'm confused. Shouldn't they be called Size Admirers now?
> 
> So a forum for "size acceptance" as long as the person can still do all the things Molly enjoys, but larger than that then size modification is on the agenda: "there's a lot of little things that i want to do that i can't do with him, like going on walks, going camping, going swimming, buying him clothes more easily (he's outgrown most big and tall store offerings), spending more time out of the house, and fucking me deeper/with less awkward maneuvering."
> 
> 
> I'll try to get hip with the times and use the right terminology in the future.



Also you should check your reading comprehension. 

"I'm insanely attracted to him now but I don't think that would go away if he lost a hundred pounds. even two hundred pounds i think, given he's nearly 500lbs if not over." 

"he refuses to go for annual checkups until he loses weight, which makes me quite concerned. i want to get his bloodwork done to see if he needs meds for various cholesterol/sugars. i'm not focusing on weight loss - he really is. i've told him i'm along for the ride, whatever makes the most sense for him. but as he's expressed his own concerns re: his weight, i've affirmed the positive aspects of losing weight in reference to his own life." 

thanks for twisting my words and making me look like the bad guy here.


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## RealMe

Fat Molly said:


> . His depression is worsened by his weight, and his weight worsens his ability to do things to alleviate his depression, and the cycle is awful.



Just give him UNCONDITIONAL love and support, accept his decision not to see a doctor and don't bring it up anymore, and lead by example by eating healthy and exercising to lose weight.


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## dwesterny

RealMe said:


> accept his decision not to see a doctor and don't bring it up anymore,



Terrible advice.


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## RealMe

dwesterny said:


> Terrible advice.



Why? Do you believe he is unaware of the health risks of being obese? Or that he needs someone to nag him? Or was it the advice for her to lead by example and eat healthy and exercise?


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## Fat Molly

I'm having an anxiety prone evening tonight because he had a really bad depression day, and doesn't want company, to talk, or support. He was supposed to see a career counselor tomorrow and he's cancelling it and I'm terrified this is yet more self sabotage and self harm. This is the first thing he was going to do where I could see he was going to do it and get it done, and it scares me that he is cancelling it. 

I know he'll get through it - he has gotten through it in the past - and he's not alone at home. He has pets that are dependent on him and has roommates who care about him. I just feel so worried on his behalf and whenever he closes off like this I go into a fretting-at-the-door kind of mode where I let him know he can reach out, but he prefers to be alone in his sadness and stuff. And as a therapist I just get deeply into my "argh can we just please talk about it!!!" mode. But I'm respecting his need for space. I can't imagine wanting to be alone in my worst moments but that's a completely different coping mechanism and I respect his different coping style. Even if I worry about its healthfulness, privately.

In writing here I'm dumping out (vs dumping in) so that I don't burden other folks in my intentional family with this shit. They've kinda heard this all a few times already. Also because most people don't really understand the complexity of the situation. 

Most people believe that unquestionably there's nothing but selfharm impulses informing this drama. But there is more to it than that. For both of us, our fatness is somewhat of a reclamatory "fuck you" to abusive and neglectful parents who tried to control us though our bodies. Also food is a major source of comfort after years of food deprivation as a control tactic in both our families of origin. . But as we have this kind of response to our trauma, we also need to be mindful about it. I'm a little more distanced from my family of origin and also have a bit more Psychoeducation. His family of origin still impinges upon his life in ways that mine does not. I also have a variety of other psychiatric layers that aren't part of his makeup. And same goes for him. 

Anyway. Life is hard. I love him and want to see us get through this. I know we can. Patience is a difficult virtue to practice.


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## Tracyarts

RealMe said:


> The body will create new fat cells when all the fat cells are full. But the body keeps the fat cells forever and they don't go away when you lose weight. They may empty but they don't go away and they are hanging around taking up space and energy.



What are the real life effects of this? I was 500+ pounds back around 2000-2002, and 300+ pounds now. That's 200-ish pounds worth of deflated empty fat cells hanging around in my body for the past 15 years. If it's just tissue that needs to be kept alive along with the rest of me, it's not using up enough energy for me to notice. Should I be able to tell they're there?


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## Fat Molly

Ugh. People who prefer to be alone when you're experiencing depression symptoms - why? My mental health is deeply worsened when I'm lonely. It's not an introvert extrovert thing because I'm an introvert. What is happening in your brain when you're self isolating and don't want company? Please help me understand - it's so different from my point of view. When I have in the past rejected company, it's because the people from whom I was rejecting company were the peoooe causing my pain. How is it that my partner doesn't want to talk to me or interact with me or be supported by me or be distracted with me when he's feeling down? I just don't get it at all.


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## Fat Molly

Also in my case isolation is often a form of self harm, which makes this all the more scary for me.


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## Tad

I don't know depression very well, especially not of the more chronic chemical/brain-wiring kind. But I do recall that way back when my wife and I were just BF/GG having dated for several months, I graduated university and spent six months before I found work, and we were long distance that whole time. It really ground down my spirits, and eventually I'm sure I would have met all definitions for an acute depression.

By the end I was almost totally uncommunicative because I was so down that the energy required to try and communicate over that distance seemed almost impossible to muster, expressing love or affection was not something that I had in me at that time, I had nothing positive to communicate and didn't want to whine, and I could see no end in sight (there had been a major economic crash just before I graduated and nobody was hiring it seemed -- there were barely even any jobs to apply to). 

Then again, when I'm sick I don't want anyone around either. I call it the cat instinct: when hurting go hide away where nobody can prey upon you while you are weak, and only come out when you are better (if you get better).

(Of course, the moment I found work I was walking on air and deeply back in love and so glad that we had survived that period.)

ETA: how far apart do you two live?


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## Marlayna

Tracyarts said:


> What are the real life effects of this? I was 500+ pounds back around 2000-2002, and 300+ pounds now. That's 200-ish pounds worth of deflated empty fat cells hanging around in my body for the past 15 years. If it's just tissue that needs to be kept alive along with the rest of me, it's not using up enough energy for me to notice. Should I be able to tell they're there?


 From what I understand, we start with a certain number of fat cells, and when they fill up, it creates another fat cell, and when that fills up, it creates another fat cell... and so on.
When we lose weight, our fat cells actually shrink, but the number of them does not. They're waiting around to get filled up again... which is why it is incredibly fast and easy to gain weight after losing.


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## Marlayna

Fat Molly said:


> Ugh. People who prefer to be alone when you're experiencing depression symptoms - why? My mental health is deeply worsened when I'm lonely. It's not an introvert extrovert thing because I'm an introvert. What is happening in your brain when you're self isolating and don't want company? Please help me understand - it's so different from my point of view. When I have in the past rejected company, it's because the people from whom I was rejecting company were the peoooe causing my pain. How is it that my partner doesn't want to talk to me or interact with me or be supported by me or be distracted with me when he's feeling down? I just don't get it at all.


 Molly, you sound like me, but let me tell you how to deal with this... FOCUS on you. Sometimes, we focus on others, trying to help them and lessen their pain, but it's really about taking the focus off ourselves.

Make a list of things you should do that would make Molly's life healthier and happier. Let your boyfriend be, men don't want to be mothered by their girlfriends.
What you can do is work on things that you know will help with your own depression, and ultimately make your life easier, and happier.


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## socrates74

Marlayna said:


> From what I understand, we start with a certain number of fat cells, and when they fill up, it creates another fat cell, and when that fills up, it creates another fat cell... and so on.
> When we lose weight, our fat cells actually shrink, but the number of them does not. They're waiting around to get filled up again... which is why it is incredibly fast and easy to gain weight after losing.



This is my understanding also


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## Fat Molly

Tad said:


> I don't know depression very well, especially not of the more chronic chemical/brain-wiring kind. But I do recall that way back when my wife and I were just BF/GG having dated for several months, I graduated university and spent six months before I found work, and we were long distance that whole time. It really ground down my spirits, and eventually I'm sure I would have met all definitions for an acute depression.
> 
> By the end I was almost totally uncommunicative because I was so down that the energy required to try and communicate over that distance seemed almost impossible to muster, expressing love or affection was not something that I had in me at that time, I had nothing positive to communicate and didn't want to whine, and I could see no end in sight (there had been a major economic crash just before I graduated and nobody was hiring it seemed -- there were barely even any jobs to apply to).
> 
> Then again, when I'm sick I don't want anyone around either. I call it the cat instinct: when hurting go hide away where nobody can prey upon you while you are weak, and only come out when you are better (if you get better).
> 
> (Of course, the moment I found work I was walking on air and deeply back in love and so glad that we had survived that period.)
> 
> ETA: how far apart do you two live?



10m away from each other. I think the way you describe it is the way he might describe it.


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## Fat Molly

Marlayna said:


> Molly, you sound like me, but let me tell you how to deal with this... FOCUS on you. Sometimes, we focus on others, trying to help them and lessen their pain, but it's really about taking the focus off ourselves.
> 
> Make a list of things you should do that would make Molly's life healthier and happier. Let your boyfriend be, men don't want to be mothered by their girlfriends.
> What you can do is work on things that you know will help with your own depression, and ultimately make your life easier, and happier.



...I really don't want this kind of advice. I have a therapist, thank you.


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## Tracyarts

Fat Molly said:


> Ugh. People who prefer to be alone when you're experiencing depression symptoms - why?.



For me, it's when I'm not feeling well in any way. Physically ill or hurt, depressed or anxious, even fatigued. I think it's some primal animal instinct to nurse your wounds in seclusion in my case. It takes a lot out of me to be around people, but I do like people, they're just a bit draining. When I'm not up to my full strength in any way, it feels better to be alone. More peaceful, more restful, and I can put all of my energy into healing or recharging.


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## Fat Molly

Tracyarts said:


> For me, it's when I'm not feeling well in any way. Physically ill or hurt, depressed or anxious, even fatigued. I think it's some primal animal instinct to nurse your wounds in seclusion in my case. It takes a lot out of me to be around people, but I do like people, they're just a bit draining. When I'm not up to my full strength in any way, it feels better to be alone. More peaceful, more restful, and I can put all of my energy into healing or recharging.



It's a foreign experience to me. thanks for sharing.


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## RealMe

It's very natural and normal for depressed people to want to be alone. It doesn't mean they are trying to off themselves. And sometimes wanting to be alone doesn't mean the person is depressed. Sometimes you just don't have the energy to give to maintain a conversation or focus on another person's needs. Being alone can be about comforting yourself and removing things which are just overwhelming at the moment and wrapping up in a virtual blankey and tending to your body's need for comfort. 

Maybe he suffers from S.A.D. and a vitamin D supplement will help.


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## RealMe

Marlayna said:


> ... FOCUS on you. Sometimes, we focus on others, trying to help them and lessen their pain, but it's really about taking the focus off ourselves.



All of this. ^


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## loopytheone

Fat Molly said:


> Ugh. People who prefer to be alone when you're experiencing depression symptoms - why? My mental health is deeply worsened when I'm lonely. It's not an introvert extrovert thing because I'm an introvert. What is happening in your brain when you're self isolating and don't want company? Please help me understand - it's so different from my point of view. When I have in the past rejected company, it's because the people from whom I was rejecting company were the peoooe causing my pain. How is it that my partner doesn't want to talk to me or interact with me or be supported by me or be distracted with me when he's feeling down? I just don't get it at all.



I am one of those people who wants to be alone when I'm depressed/anxious. It is just a personal thing; tbh I find it very difficult to understand people who are the opposite way around. For me, being alone lets me be calmer and stiller, mentally, and it reduces the risk of me lashing out at someone I love, which is something I never wanted to happen.


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## Tad

Something I forgot to add: for me words are hard (part of why I write so much online, I have time to think about the words, and I often compose those long posts on and off over an hour or three, and I can do it when I have the energy and focus for it). When I'm tired (just at normal times) it gets really hard to get a thought that is in my brain to come off my tongue, they feel miles apart.


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## HereticFA

RealMe said:


> I have no idea what you are trying to say. lol. Did I use the wrong word? She wants him to lose 200lbs of size (not fat)? There are people who call themselves Fat Admirers here but it's not a fat acceptance group. I'm confused. Shouldn't they be called Size Admirers now?
> 
> So a forum for "size acceptance" as long as the person can still do all the things Molly enjoys, but larger than that then size modification is on the agenda: "there's a lot of little things that i want to do that i can't do with him, like going on walks, going camping, going swimming, buying him clothes more easily (he's outgrown most big and tall store offerings), spending more time out of the house, and fucking me deeper/with less awkward maneuvering."
> 
> 
> I'll try to get hip with the times and use the right terminology in the future.



FWIW, I think Fat Molly was using "size" as a synonym for fat. Unfortunately some people still see "fat" as an accusation and not an adjective. She may be used to talking with more of those people in RL than those of us here that literally and linguistically embrace fat.

Your comments harken back to many of the discussions on the original and second Dimensions website regarding fat acceptance vs size acceptance. I'm one of the few here that still use fat acceptance. Most others use size acceptance so as not to offend the average size supporters and smaller midsize fat folks. And more recently, all the folks that had WLS but still hang around the obesogenic environment of Dimensions. Sadly, even NAAFA considered removing "fat" from their name.

And since this is the FA/FFA Forum, Fat Molly was expressing her concerns as seen from her side of their relationship as an FFA. There comes a point for most FA/FFA's in a LTR that they are no longer oblivious to or can ignore all the basic fat related issues their partner experiences. Then the guilt starts to creep in. Are they somehow responsible, are they an enabler, are they killing their partner with their love and acceptance? I suspect that's generally the phase where Fat Molly's at. And also by now Fat Molly's realized there's things she'd really like to do with her SO that are impaired by his weight. In other words, she's finally recognized boundaries to her preferences. She'd like to discuss these issues other FA/FFA's who may have already worked through them. 



RealMe said:


> If her bf was here asking for support to lose weight that would be one thing. But for her asking how to get him to lose weight... it really is such a typical thing that us large people have to deal with in a relationships and I'm sad to see it here in this forum.


Actually he should do that in the Health Forum, not here in the FA/FFA Forum. But it is entirely acceptable for an FA/FFA to ask other FA/FFAs their opinion on how to somewhat influence their SO's lifestyle to generally improve their health, or at least reconnect with basic healthcare.



RealMe said:


> Do you believe they died young because they didn't have people telling them they need to lose weight? Or they never watched the news and knew there was risk of being overweight? Did they die because a loved one didn't judge them enough and nag them to go to the doctor? Or because society didn't tell them they were a ticking time bomb about to die? Or they died because they went out in public and nobody looked at them strange or pointed and laughed. Clearly they died because not enough people told them that being obese has health risks.
> 
> 
> I apologize for the many posts, thoughts keep coming to my mind.


No need to apologize. Especially since i think we're finally getting to the core of your fundamental objections. I suspect you're dealing with basic self acceptance issues yourself and you've found this thread very contrary to your needs at this time in your development. It also provides a valuable comparison to the FA's who post in the BBW Forum. 

No, none of our fat friends and acquaintances died from those things. But they all did die from weight _related_ issues of one kind or another. As much as I'd love for that to not be true, unfortunately it is. The bigger question is whether or not simply draining fat cells is enough to eliminate the _long_ term health risks or are the weight related health issues avoidable only by avoiding creation of the additional fat cells in the first place. I suspect only the latter applies.


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## HereticFA

Fat Molly, reading through your posts, the one thing that jumps out at me is the level of conflict avoidance, a self defense mechanism, your SO is engaging in. It's something a lot of us can be prone to, even at moderate BMIs of 35 or so. 

Maybe you could start a discussion with him about conflict avoidance and how easy of a trap it is to fall into. If he could overcome the tendency to avoid conflict then many of the issues you've noted will improve. 

The hardest nut to crack will be the med exam, but that should be one of the first things after he gets a new job. Don't focus on weight or weight loss. I've found weight will usually go down once other issues are addressed. The weight is simply a byproduct. Your bigger issue may be how will you feel about him if he eventually loses 300 pounds. But that's a topic for another thread.


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## Tracyarts

HereticFA said:


> No, none of our fat friends and acquaintances died from those things. But they all did die from weight _related_ issues of one kind or another. As much as I'd love for that to not be true, unfortunately it is. The bigger question is whether or not simply draining fat cells is enough to eliminate the _long_ term health risks or are the weight related health issues avoidable only by avoiding creation of the additional fat cells in the first place. I suspect only the latter applies.



I know in my case, being 500+ pounds for a while didn't cause any serious permanent damage (that can be measured by diagnostic procedures at least). Both my endocrinologist and cardiologist have verified that in my medical records. 

So draining the fat cells did make a huge difference in my cardiac and metabolic function. Especially with my type 2 diabetes/metabolic syndrome. My doctor explained to me how fatty tissue is metabolically active in terms of affecting insulin levels and insulin sensitivity. It has to be the fat itself, not just the fat cells. Because I still have the same amount of fat cells as then but my insulin sensitivity and insulin resistance has significantly improved. And that has reduced the level of insulin in my bloodstream, helped me bring my blood glucose under tight control, manage it more easily with less medication and a less restrictive diet, reversed the early stage diabetic nephropathy I had been diagnosed with, and really improved my peripheral neuropathy in my feet and hands too. 

As far as my heart and circulatory system, my blood pressure is normal now and my cardiac function returned to normal. I went through a lot of cardiac tests in the past 6 moths and everything was fine. All the abnormalities they found back around 2000 were no longer there. The doctor said looking at my diagnostic results, you'd never know that I ever had any cardiac issues in the past. 

One thing the neurologist said is that having been fatter in the past didn't cause my stroke (unless the stroke happened back then when my blood glucose and blood pressure were not able to be effectively controlled with medication). We'll never know exactly when it happened. But none of the risk factors I had back then were present when I was diagnosed in August. And having had a risk factor in the past can't cause a stroke in the present, if it's no longer a risk factor. 

So if I drop dead in the near future, it won't be because I was once a lot fatter, it'll probably be whatever unknown factor caused my stroke.


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## Tad

Fwiw Tracy, saw a summary of a study last year that concluded that fat cells are sort of the shock absorbers of our bodies, soaking up excess glucose to avoid it causing damage. Except when they are maxed out in size they can't do this job effectively. Which could be why even modest weight gains may clear up metabolic syndrome for many people.

Still early days on that theory, but it does seem to make sense of a lot of observations.


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## Fat Molly

HereticFA said:


> Fat Molly, reading through your posts, the one thing that jumps out at me is the level of conflict avoidance, a self defense mechanism, your SO is engaging in. It's something a lot of us can be prone to, even at moderate BMIs of 35 or so.
> 
> Maybe you could start a discussion with him about conflict avoidance and how easy of a trap it is to fall into. If he could overcome the tendency to avoid conflict then many of the issues you've noted will improve.
> 
> The hardest nut to crack will be the med exam, but that should be one of the first things after he gets a new job. Don't focus on weight or weight loss. I've found weight will usually go down once other issues are addressed. The weight is simply a byproduct. Your bigger issue may be how will you feel about him if he eventually loses 300 pounds. But that's a topic for another thread.



Babe you clearly didn't read my response posts - I don't have an opinion on his weight loss per se. My focus is not on weight loss but instead on getting him to the doctor. I don't know how many times more I need to say that before everyone starts to hear me on this. I know the near immobility related to weight is a symptom, not in and of itself the issue. 

Conflict avoidance is a great topic of conversation though and I thank you for that suggestion.


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## HereticFA

Fat Molly said:


> Babe you clearly didn't read my response posts - I don't have an opinion on his weight loss per se. My focus is not on weight loss but instead on getting him to the doctor. I don't know how many times more I need to say that before everyone starts to hear me on this. I know the near immobility related to weight is a symptom, not in and of itself the issue.
> 
> Conflict avoidance is a great topic of conversation though and I thank you for that suggestion.



But you did post


Fat Molly said:


> <stuff snipped>
> I'm insanely attracted to him now but I don't think that would go away if he lost a hundred pounds. even two hundred pounds i think, given he's nearly 500lbs if not over.
> 
> i like him squishy and i also like him enough to want him to stick around. <stuff snipped>


After reading the numerous emotional stresses he has (and had) in his life, I suspected if those were addressed he may lose more than the 200 pounds you cited as a possible threshold. I was just trying to get you to consider the possibility of him losing weight _beyond_ 200 pounds without even trying. It's different for an FA/FFA when such a fundamental aspect of a relationship simply goes away. 

FWIW, with my SSBBW wife I stressed one rule early in our relationship: health comes first, above all else. When in doubt, refer to rule number one. It's also come in handy to remind me as I've seen her drop from about 430 pounds to right around 200 pounds, with the most recent 40 to 50 pound loss occurring during her current hospital stay. My main frustration is the weight loss didn't really help her diabetes that much. The only improvement has been that her diabetes is less brittle and easier to control.


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## RealMe

HereticFA said:


> Fat Molly, reading through your posts, the one thing that jumps out at me is the level of conflict avoidance, a self defense mechanism, your SO is engaging in.



You only know what Molly has told you, from her perspective. And quite possibly worded in a way such as to elicit a specific response in the reader. 

I don't think it's appropriate to talk about someone's SO in this manner. He could be completely misrepresented. For example, Molly thinks that a person wanting some alone time is abnormal and a red flag for self-harm behavior.


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## Fat Molly

HereticFA said:


> But you did post
> 
> After reading the numerous emotional stresses he has (and had) in his life, I suspected if those were addressed he may lose more than the 200 pounds you cited as a possible threshold. I was just trying to get you to consider the possibility of him losing weight _beyond_ 200 pounds without even trying. It's different for an FA/FFA when such a fundamental aspect of a relationship simply goes away.
> 
> FWIW, with my SSBBW wife I stressed one rule early in our relationship: health comes first, above all else. When in doubt, refer to rule number one. It's also come in handy to remind me as I've seen her drop from about 430 pounds to right around 200 pounds, with the most recent 40 to 50 pound loss occurring during her current hospital stay. My main frustration is the weight loss didn't really help her diabetes that much. The only improvement has been that her diabetes is less brittle and easier to control.



Okay, for what it's worth! I have more than one partner. My girlfriend is trending on underweight. My boyfriends are, respectively, mildly obese (just a little plump), and severely morbidly obese (and clearly I'm talking about this one). I have no worry about being sexually attracted to my partner if he loses 200lbs 'without trying' (and I really doubt that he will lose 200lbs 'without trying' if he corrects the various psychosocial issues in his life. I'm explosively attracted to him and his body at the present time, sure. But I don't think that will change - if he loses even 200lbs he will be squishier than either of my other sexual and romantic partners. Even if he went down to my weight or (inconceivable but possible) less than my weight, I'm along for the ride. 

(Ethical nonmonogamy, everyone has consent and knows each other, me and my partners hang out together all the time and they're cool with each other... just before anyone gets their panties in a twist.) 

Thanks for your px HFA. My partners' health is also my primary priority. I think you unfairly categorized me when you said 'finally understanding the ramifications' - because trust me, it's always, ALWAYS been on my mind throughout my experiences as a FA. Working in the medical field tends to make these things take a preeminent role in my mind. Particularly when partner has most of the early signs of diabetes and he's unwilling to go to a doctor and address them. 

Moreover, I posted this not on the FA/FFA forum but on the Health forum for a reason. 
..................

In other news... I successfully got him to agree to a month of going to the gym with me a few days a week to go swimming. He's not enthused about it but I told him at least if he comes along, he can chill in my lane and watch me do laps. My emphasis with him is not weight loss but building muscles - esp. given he's experiencing trouble with his knee related to his weight, and I'm hoping such activity will help him with that.


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## landshark

Fat Molly said:


> In other news... I successfully got him to agree to a month of going to the gym with me a few days a week to go swimming. He's not enthused about it but I told him at least if he comes along, he can chill in my lane and watch me do laps. My emphasis with him is not weight loss but building muscles - esp. given he's experiencing trouble with his knee related to his weight, and I'm hoping such activity will help him with that.



This is a great start. I've never trained someone quite as obese as your partner, (and in full discloser I'm not a certified trainer anyway) but I've always felt if I were going to do so, swimming is where I'd have him or her start. I also recommend the basic compound lifts: bench press, squat, deadlift, overhead press, and barbell rows make up the core of my training efforts. Even in an era where people are constantly trying to reinvent fitness these lifts remain staples in any serious strength program. They are easy to learn the proper technique, too. And the returns for the effort on those lifts far exceed a lot of the more technical trendy stuff you see these days. 

If he is interested (or if you are going to push him into) the weight room, first do a quick search on the Stronglifts 5x5 program. It's a wonderful entry-level program that ANYONE can do. Also, since he is experiencing knee issues related to weight, I'll add maybe replacing conventional squats with the hack squat until he gets some muscle built up. 

Best wishes to you as you continue to support your loved one.


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## ShakesSphere

I agree about blood pressure. At least two-thirds of the health risk from obesity is a result of high blood pressure. The key point is that high blood pressure is easily treatable with any number of cheap and effective medications that have few side effects. Blood pressure pills are far more effective than weight loss --even after losing weight people will need pills. 
Use a wrist BP monitor to get a quick estimate. It's accurate enough for home use.
Diabetes is tougher to treat. A good home test is get urine test strips for glucose. Sugar does not belong in urine if it's there you have a serious problem. 
Getting a physical probably does not help much. But fat bodies need to be checked for a few major fat-related diseases. Blood pressure, cholesterol and blood sugar covers the main stuff.


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## Fat Molly

happily_married said:


> This is a great start. I've never trained someone quite as obese as your partner, (and in full discloser I'm not a certified trainer anyway) but I've always felt if I were going to do so, swimming is where I'd have him or her start. I also recommend the basic compound lifts: bench press, squat, deadlift, overhead press, and barbell rows make up the core of my training efforts. Even in an era where people are constantly trying to reinvent fitness these lifts remain staples in any serious strength program. They are easy to learn the proper technique, too. And the returns for the effort on those lifts far exceed a lot of the more technical trendy stuff you see these days.
> 
> If he is interested (or if you are going to push him into) the weight room, first do a quick search on the Stronglifts 5x5 program. It's a wonderful entry-level program that ANYONE can do. Also, since he is experiencing knee issues related to weight, I'll add maybe replacing conventional squats with the hack squat until he gets some muscle built up.
> 
> Best wishes to you as you continue to support your loved one.



can't give you more rep but thanks <3


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## bigmac

Tracyarts said:


> What are the real life effects of this? I was 500+ pounds back around 2000-2002, and 300+ pounds now. That's 200-ish pounds worth of deflated empty fat cells hanging around in my body for the past 15 years. If it's just tissue that needs to be kept alive along with the rest of me, it's not using up enough energy for me to notice. Should I be able to tell they're there?



I don't think anyone knows if deflated fat cells stay around forever. Cells die off and are replaced -- or possibly are not replaced. However, at least while the deflated fat cells are still around it means that the you can more easily regain your lost weight. That is its easier for a 300 pound woman who once weighed 500 pounds to gain than it is for a similar 300 pound woman who never weighed more.


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