# Why Can't You Men Communicate? I Mean Really Let Me Hear Your Excuses



## MadameMedusa (Sep 11, 2010)

Hey,
Ok here's my rant.
Why, in this day and age is it so hard for men to communicate? Okay you can call,text,email,IM and gad knows what else from a single phone, we know this because we all can! So how do men think it's OK to not give any kind of heads up just out of consideration, or good manners is really weak. And rude.
There.


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## bigpulve (Sep 11, 2010)

because we dont like to talk a lot. 






and the game is on.


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## Inhibited (Sep 11, 2010)

Am confused by this are you saying that when you meet face to face they don't communicate? Isn't calling, text, email, IM a form of communication? If a guy is calling you i think your damn lucky i think the majority only text. Do you mean they don't call, text or email to give you the heads up that they are coming over?


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## Jay West Coast (Sep 11, 2010)

We dudes are complex things. I mean, we hate to admit it, but we really are. Women tend to be layered complex-simple-complex. Dudes are more simple-complex-simple. 

We think that our day to day needs are simple. And they are. We like a certain kind of cereal, cars, and sports teams. But when it comes to the more intricate ways of being, we resort to extreme subtleties that tacitly work to guard our emotions, communicate a complex emotional space, and create room for resolution. This is the hardest part of dudes to learn and navigate. If you learn this bit (usually only through relational exposure), you can get into the last layer, which is again simple. We really just want to be well appreciated by someone worth appreciating, good lovin, and the occasional ice cream sandwich. 

I probably oversimplified here, but hopefully meanwhile offered some insight. It's not that we don't communicate; its just that we don't communicate the way you do at the same times.


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## BoomSnap (Sep 11, 2010)

I promise I'll reply to this thread. I promise.


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## arkanoid (Sep 11, 2010)

I shout across the house, "WHAT!!?"


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## bigmac (Sep 11, 2010)

Why do women want to talk about everything. Life's full of stuff that just needs to get done -- no discussion required.


And why do women want the engage in said discussion when the Simpsons are on.


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## Weeze (Sep 11, 2010)

Heh this thread.... there's been what? 2 good responses? 
Yeeeah.


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## Melted Tabasco (Sep 11, 2010)

Because youre standing in front of the TV! I cant see. _Move!_ Talk later.


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## Dmitra (Sep 11, 2010)

MadameMedusa said:


> Hey,
> Ok here's my rant.
> Why, in this day and age is it so hard for men to communicate? Okay you can call,text,email,IM and gad knows what else from a single phone, we know this because we all can! So how do men think it's OK to not give any kind of heads up just out of consideration, or good manners is really weak. And rude.
> There.



This is sounding to me like what happens after significant time has passed after <insert couple-oriented activity> without the man in question calling back. If you call him and he doesn't return the favor, then there's rudeness. If you're just waiting around for him it's tough but maybe it's time to ramble on?



Jay West Coast said:


> We dudes are complex things. I mean, we hate to admit it, but we really are. Women tend to be layered complex-simple-complex. Dudes are more simple-complex-simple.
> 
> We think that our day to day needs are simple. And they are. We like a certain kind of cereal, cars, and sports teams. But when it comes to the more intricate ways of being, we resort to extreme subtleties that tacitly work to guard our emotions, communicate a complex emotional space, and create room for resolution. This is the hardest part of dudes to learn and navigate. If you learn this bit (usually only through relational exposure), you can get into the last layer, which is again simple. *We really just want to be well appreciated by someone worth appreciating, good lovin, and the occasional ice cream sandwich. *
> 
> I probably oversimplified here, but hopefully meanwhile offered some insight. It's not that we don't communicate; its just that we don't communicate the way you do at the same times.



It's that complex center that's making my brain feel like I'm rediscovering chemical equations. I do like chem, though! And the bolded part actually comes pretty close to what a lot of women want (except that maybe it'd be an ice cream drumstick . . . .)




bigmac said:


> Why do women want to talk about everything. Life's full of stuff that just needs to get done -- no discussion required.
> 
> 
> And why do women want the engage in said discussion when the Simpsons are on.



Some of the chattiest people I've met have been men, not that you're wrong about some women, too. I swear, if anyone talks during Supernatural they're going down big time!!!


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## Tina (Sep 11, 2010)

Good gravy. Generalizing and accusing is always a great way to start off not only a thread, but a discussion with anyone. :blink: If stereotypes are to be believed, men generally shy away from confrontations with women. If you truly want to be taken seriously and be given answers (it was really gracious of Jay to answer your question seriously, despite your tone), this really isn't the best way to get them.


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## sirGordy (Sep 11, 2010)

MadameMedusa said:


> Hey,
> Ok here's my rant.
> Why, in this day and age is it so hard for men to communicate? Okay you can call,text,email,IM and gad knows what else from a single phone, we know this because we all can! So how do men think it's OK to not give any kind of heads up just out of consideration, or good manners is really weak. And rude.
> There.


 
MadameMedusa, here is my answer to your rant. I for one, and I can only speak for myself; I communicate pretty well, what I feel, how I feel, and I have been known to express my feelings pretty succinctly at times. I use all of the about contrivances (though I really am not a texting person), to get my thoughts out. Yes, I am a tad shy, been that way since childhood; however, I have mainly gotten out of that phase, and at least will say hello, how are you, and care about the response of the other person.

I do not think its "OK" not to give a heads up to anyone, and I think its rude, no matter which gender, whom lacks the quality of good manners, respect, decorum, etc. to others when it comes to letting a person know exactly how you really feel, especially in terms of being honest with them.

MadameMedusa, no disrespect, but that is a sweeping generalization regarding the fact that you said "men" as opposed to some men, which would be more accurate (this can be said of some women too). I think communication is key to any type of meaningful dialogue, and the lack thereof is pretty sad, especially in this day of instant communication.

Just my thoughts and my response....


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## Emma (Sep 11, 2010)

It sounds to me like the men you are talking about just aren't interested.


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## Dromond (Sep 11, 2010)

MadameMedusa said:


> Hey,
> Ok here's my rant.
> Why, in this day and age is it so hard for men to communicate? Okay you can call,text,email,IM and gad knows what else from a single phone, we know this because we all can! So how do men think it's OK to not give any kind of heads up just out of consideration, or good manners is really weak. And rude.
> There.



Because we are taught by you women that it's easier to vanish into the night than it is to tell you we aren't interested. Actually saying we're not interested usually evokes copious amounts of drama, demanding questions, and sometimes histrionics. We'd rather not deal with it.


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## spiritangel (Sep 11, 2010)

Dromond said:


> Because we are taught by you women that it's easier to vanish into the night than it is to tell you we aren't interested. Actually saying we're not interested usually evokes copious amounts of drama, demanding questions, and sometimes histrionics. We'd rather not deal with it.



Personally I would rather hear those things, but I would probably ask questions like why ect and if there was something I had done so I could learn from my mistakes and yes I may be hurt or upset or cry man up and deal with it it will be a storm in a teacup and we can both move on instead of me being left wondering wtf sorry Dro but this is one of the few times I dissagree with you

sometimes you need to man up so we can all move on and get on with life after all you have no idea what mess you have left behind and you dont learn from life by running away just cause something may be difficult

Although I do have issue with the OP wording because the truth is we are all indaviduals and I have met some amazing men who communicate well and others who dont but then again I can say the same for some females I have met as well

perfect example of this was my so called bestie cut me out of her life for no apparent reason without warning or even talking to me about it late last year so it isnt just men who are capable of such things.................


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## Dromond (Sep 11, 2010)

I was answering the OP using the same tone and sweeping generalization she used.

For myself, I've never vanished without a trace. If I'm not interested, I tell the woman I'm not interested. More often than not, it turned into a really bad scene. Most of the women I've dealt with did not take rejection well at all. It's a testament to my own principles that I never just vanished, because it would have been so much easier to do so in so many cases.


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## Forgotten_Futures (Sep 11, 2010)

I have to think this is a rejection issue. As such, my input won't be worth much. But I do try and communicate in some way when definitive communication is necessary. I often go out of my way to say more than I have to.

That said, a lot of male communication is subliminal. Then again, so is a lot of female communication. This equates largely to body language, the stuff that makes for what some people call "auras". Sometimes, we just feel that actual words shouldn't be needed. Experience shows that women believe this as well.

My mother still hasn't learned that simple, one-two word responses usually means I don't care what she's talking about and she would be as well off not talking = P


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## spiritangel (Sep 11, 2010)

Dromond said:


> I was answering the OP using the same tone and sweeping generalization she used.
> 
> For myself, I've never vanished without a trace. If I'm not interested, I tell the woman I'm not interested. More often than not, it turned into a really bad scene. Most of the women I've dealt with did not take rejection well at all. It's a testament to my own principles that I never just vanished, because it would have been so much easier to do so in so many cases.



I diddnt think you would be a takes the easy way out, and I understand that that you were taking the same tone. Still dont have to like what you said though. hugs I have always preffered to always have an easy out but talk to me about it before you vanish I hate unanswered questions,


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## BeaBea (Sep 11, 2010)

MadameMedusa said:


> Why, in this day and age is it so hard for men to communicate?



From my huge wealth of age and experiences <cough> I have so say the answer to this is probably 'Because they are men.' You might as well ask why they scratch their balls.

More seriously, you just have to learn to love and accept the fact that men are different to women. If you present them with a problems they want to fix it, not discuss it for hours. They obsess about numbers and statistics and stuff but not about every nuance of their feelings. If he is genuinely ignoring you then I'm really REALLY sorry - but he's just not that into you...

Tracey


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## toni (Sep 11, 2010)

MadameMedusa said:


> Hey,
> Ok here's my rant.
> Why, in this day and age is it so hard for men to communicate? Okay you can call,text,email,IM and gad knows what else from a single phone, we know this because we all can! So how do men think it's OK to not give any kind of heads up just out of consideration, or good manners is really weak. And rude.
> There.



It is very rude. If it makes you unhappy tell him no. Don't tolerate that type of behavior. Explain to him how you feel. If he still doesn't get the hint and continues that type of BS it is time to kick him to the curb. The man factory didn't close down when they made him. There will be others.


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## Christov (Sep 11, 2010)

Because I have no mouth and I must scream.


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## toni (Sep 11, 2010)

**disregard**


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## Blackjack (Sep 11, 2010)

toni said:


> WOW, she did start it off with the warning *rant*. So we can tell she just went through something and is a little upset. Cut her some slack.



In that case, here's my rant:

Generalizations are, for the most part, bullshit, and the OP's tone is most certainly deserving of backlash.

But this is a rant, so you have to cut me some slack and are not allowed to criticize what I say. I know how all you women folks do that.


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## thirtiesgirl (Sep 11, 2010)

Dromond said:


> Because we are taught by you women that it's easier to vanish into the night than it is to tell you we aren't interested. Actually saying we're not interested usually evokes copious amounts of drama, demanding questions, and sometimes histrionics. We'd rather not deal with it.



If a guy tells me he's not interested, the only response he'll get from me is a rather confused, "uh, ok." I mean, how can you argue with "I'm not interested"? I might like to know _why_ he's not interested and I'd hope he'd give me a clearer answer, but if he's not interested, what can you do? I doubt you'll be able to convince him otherwise.

Now, if I ask why he's not interested (which is rare, since I usually don't like to continue the conversation afterwards), I'm not looking for or expecting an answer like, "you're a fat, ugly pig." I've had guys tell me on occasion, "I don't like fat women," or "I'm not attracted to you," which is not fun to hear, but less hurtful than making the issue about me ("_you're_ a fat ugly pig," as opposed to "_I don't like_ fat women"). I'd rather hear something like, "I don't think we share a lot of interests," or "I'm an outdoorsy guy and you don't like to get dirt under your nails"...but again, it's a question I rarely ask, so I really don't know everyone's reasons why they're not interested in me.

To piggyback on the OP's question, though, I had an experience last month with a guy I met online who engaged in what I felt was some very poor miscommunication. Maybe people here (guys and gals) can give me their perspective on why a guy might behave this way.

To give a bit of back story, I have dating profiles on several internet dating sites, both free and paid sites. As of last year, I decided to put a moratorium on paying for dating sites. Some of them can get expensive, and I wasn't having any better results on the paid sites as I was on the free ones. So I figured it was time for me to stop paying for the 'privilege' of sending personal messages to guys on internet dating sites, and figured that if they were so interested in me, _they_ needed to fork up the dough to send a personal message to me.

So last month, I was contacted by a guy online who claimed he did just that. This is what he wrote to me: “I basically paid for membership just so I could write you. I love the way you look and for some reason I just feel like you're the one for me, as weird as that may sound. Let's try getting to know each other and see if my intuition is correct?”

I was skeptical, but flattered enough. I sent him a response and we began e-mailing, first through the dating site and then via personal e-mail. We spent most of that afternoon e-mailing, having a good conversation, or so it seemed to me. We have similar taste in movies and music, and he’s almost a bigger music geek than I am (or so he said). I actually started to feel a little bit excited about the guy. Like maybe I’d actually found someone who was really into me for a change, and things might actually work out.

The next day, I didn’t hear from him at all for the whole day, which I thought was a little unusual, considering the interest he'd expressed the day before. I sent him a brief e-mail to ask how he was doing, and ask if he might be interested in talking on the phone. The next morning, I received this e-mail response from him: “I hope this doesn't disappoint you too much, but I went out on a date last night, and it went really well. I've tried in the past to meet multiple people at the same time and it's way too overwhelming and hard to deal with, so I'm going to hold off getting to know anyone else while I'm seeing where things go with the woman I went out with last night.”

I understand his reasoning for not wanting to date two people at once. I don't share his reasoning; I actually feel that's the _point_ of dating - to date several people, not limiting yourself to just one person, so you can get a better feel for who might be a good fit for you. And when you find them, you stop dating the others. ...But I understand that not everyone likes to date several people at once, so I didn't take issue with that.

What I _don't_ understand is why he'd spin me a line of bullshit in his first message - the whole thing about paying for a membership just so he could contact me, that I'm "the one for him," etc. He could have just as easily written, "I think you're kind of cute and I think we share some interests. Care to talk?" Why the need for the deception?

And here's the kicker: when I called him on it, he wrote back an indignant response, claiming he was completely sincere with his first message, and apparently expected _me_ to believe he was being sincere, too. Yeah, sure: you've just spent $16 a month to contact only me on this dating website because you think I'm "the one for you"; meanwhile, you've been e-mailing another woman and have a date planned with her for the very next day. Disingenuous much?

Of course this isn't the _only_ instance of bullshit behavior I've experienced from men over the years. This was just the most recent example. So explain this to me, folks: why do men engage in this kind of behavior? What's the point in this kind of miscommunication? When I say or write things, I mean them, and I expect the same from others. Is that such a hard expectation to meet?


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## wrestlingguy (Sep 11, 2010)

Hello and welcome to the Dimensions Forums, MadameMedusa.

I hope you enjoy your stay, and make lots of friends, particularly from the men who would like to give you a "heads up".

I personally appreciate the "heads up" your post has given me as well. Duly noted.


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## bigsexy920 (Sep 11, 2010)

Ahhhh the silent quit - I thought after my 20's and then my 30's the silent quit would come to an end. Men ask for us to be honest and not play games - but its OK if they do? 

I get the whole not liking to call and text - I don't really like it much myself to be honest - BUT if i like someone and am interested in them and I text "how is your day going" or "I'm thinking of you" It would be nice to hear back. like an awww thanks - or that's sweet... or I'm thinking of you too. It would only take like 6 seconds of your time. It REALLY is not a big deal

I say man up and do the dirty work - hurt our feeling let us have the drama if that is what we need to get over you.

All that messy stuff is part of the deal with relationships - at least in my eyes. 

I also agree with Toni in that if you are reaching out and HE is NOT - and its an all the time behavior that upsets you. Move on. chances are "he is just not that in to you," as the Book says. 




Dromond said:


> Because we are taught by you women that it's easier to vanish into the night than it is to tell you we aren't interested. Actually saying we're not interested usually evokes copious amounts of drama, demanding questions, and sometimes histrionics. We'd rather not deal with it.


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## wrestlingguy (Sep 11, 2010)

I would also like to request that this thread be moved to a more appropriate forum, as it has nothing to do with size acceptance issues, unless of course the OP feels that only fat women are treated this way by men.


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## bigmac (Sep 11, 2010)

Dromond said:


> Because we are taught by you women that it's easier to vanish into the night than it is to tell you we aren't interested. Actually saying we're not interested usually evokes copious amounts of drama, demanding questions, and sometimes histrionics. We'd rather not deal with it.




Agree totally. Women always want to know why and lots of times there aren't reasons that can be articulated (at least not without hurting feelings).


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## Leesa (Sep 11, 2010)

This happens because men like this are rude and disrespectful. Obviously, their Mommas _thought_ they walked on water and pooped ice cream! MAN up, fellas!


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## wrestlingguy (Sep 11, 2010)

Leesa said:


> This happens because men like this are rude and disrespectful. Obviously, their Mommas _thought_ they walked on water and pooped ice cream! MAN up, fellas!



I agree.......just not ALL of us. MAYBE MOST, but not all.


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## rellis10 (Sep 11, 2010)

I'm terrible at communicating because i'm a nervous wreck....what if she doesnt agree with what I say? What if I say the wrong thing completely? Heck, what if she actually agrees?! :doh:

I certainly can't speak for other guys, but i'd like to think I struggle to communicate properly because I worry too much about what the other person will think, not because i'm just being inconsiderate or secretive.


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## KittyKitten (Sep 11, 2010)

A lot of men just don't like to talk on the phone. Most men are just not talkers. We women talk too much. I have just come to accept the fact that men are truly different from women; there may be both biological and sociological factors that are responsible for these differences. The sooner you accept this fact, the better you will feel. Also, this is a pretty contradictory, a man would open up to you when he is truly in love with you.

There have been studies that show that the average woman speaks more than the average man
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003420.html


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## LovelyLiz (Sep 11, 2010)

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I think saying, "I'm not interested" is plenty of information, and there's really no need to go into details, especially if it's someone you barely know. If a guy says that to me, I've learned that it's just best for everyone to let it lie (and I usually don't go into details either, if I'm saying it to a guy). On the other hand, it can also be nice to get some feedback, just to have more information on how you might be coming across to others. But if it's just a lack of physical chemistry, I don't know that more details help matters.

But I do agree with the OP that it's nice to have a guy man up and say it, just to have closure and be able to know it's a "No." (Tho, I'm not entirely sure that's what she's talking about, but I'm just going to run with that.) If it's just been a few emails, I don't know that it's necessary, but especially if you've met in person and gone out on a date(s) I think some honesty is earned.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Sep 11, 2010)

The whole communication/non-communication/gender issue is dealt with in detail by Deborah Tannen in her book _You Just Don't Understand_. It's probably out of print by now, but it's a real eye-opener (or at least it was for me), and I highly recommend it for anyone who is either (1) male or (2) female.


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## Melted Tabasco (Sep 11, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> Hello and welcome to the Dimensions Forums, MadameMedusa.
> 
> I hope you enjoy your stay, and make lots of friends, particularly from the men who would like to give you a "heads up".
> 
> I personally appreciate the "heads up" your post has given me as well. Duly noted.



Agreement! In the same spirit, i responded in the same tone as the thread, which i took to be sarcastic. Maybe that is not the best word, but i responded with humour.

Excellent point sir!


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## Dmitra (Sep 11, 2010)

Thanks, Doc. Just read a little bit of it on Amazon and now it's on its way. 

You Just Don't Understand



Dr. Feelgood said:


> The whole communication/non-communication/gender issue is dealt with in detail by Deborah Tannen in her book _You Just Don't Understand_. It's probably out of print by now, but it's a real eye-opener (or at least it was for me), and I highly recommend it for anyone who is either (1) male or (2) female.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 11, 2010)

MadameMedusa said:


> Hey,
> Ok here's my rant.
> Why, in this day and age is it so hard for men to communicate? Okay you can call,text,email,IM and gad knows what else from a single phone, we know this because we all can! So how do men think it's OK to not give any kind of heads up just out of consideration, or good manners is really weak. And rude.
> There.


 Props to the Madame for naming herself after one of the hottest Jack Kirby supervillainesses EVER!! A dozen years before the name is used in Disney's THE RESCUERS, by the way...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v731/jfirehammer/third eye posters/medusa108.jpg


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## toni (Sep 11, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> In that case, here's my rant:
> 
> Generalizations are, for the most part, bullshit, and the OP's tone is most certainly deserving of backlash.
> 
> But this is a rant, so you have to cut me some slack and are not allowed to criticize what I say. I know how all you women folks do that.



That or some people, like yourself, take every opportunity to wiggle their finger and reprimand people.

Hey, at least you are quick on the draw.


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## CastingPearls (Sep 11, 2010)

While it could have been couched more appropriately, the subject is a worthy one. 

We all communicate differently and there is something to be said about the Venus/Mars thing but if a man can't make an attempt at communicating with me then it's frustrating so I don't entertain those situations. I let everyone know how I feel and what I want and yes, I know that's ME but I'm honest and don't expect anything more or less from anyone else, men or women. I'm not going to analyze and waste time and I never think to myself, well he's the only prospect so I have to baby or indulge him or wipe his nose or ass. No. I'd rather be alone. 

With me, what you see is what you get and if you don't show by word, expression or action then I don't agonize over it. You lose out on my friendship, my love and respect and I move on. Onward and upwards cos life is too fucking short for bullshit from either side.

When you respect yourself, worthy people respect you. The key is to separate the wheat from the chaff and walk away from the garbage you discard rather than live with it because you think it's all you've got. That was a hard lesson to learn but something I needed to grow as a person.


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## Dromond (Sep 11, 2010)

bigsexy920 said:


> Ahhhh the silent quit - I thought after my 20's and then my 30's the silent quit would come to an end. Men ask for us to be honest and not play games - but its OK if they do?
> 
> I get the whole not liking to call and text - I don't really like it much myself to be honest - BUT if i like someone and am interested in them and I text "how is your day going" or "I'm thinking of you" It would be nice to hear back. like an awww thanks - or that's sweet... or I'm thinking of you too. It would only take like 6 seconds of your time. It REALLY is not a big deal
> 
> ...



It's real easy to say "man up, men!" I get sick of hearing that phrase, quite frankly. We're supposed to understand you and your ways, what about you taking some time to try to understand us and our ways? You want honesty from men? Then it's time for you to try to meet us on our turf. Understanding is not a one way street.


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## CastingPearls (Sep 11, 2010)

Dromond said:


> It's real easy to say "man up, men!" I get sick of hearing that phrase, quite frankly. We're supposed to understand you and your ways, what about you taking some time to try to understand us and our ways? You want honesty from men? Then it's time for you to try to meet us on our turf. Understanding is not a one way street.


I agree with you. Men don't necessarily communicate primarily with words. There are other forms of communication that speak volumes too. If you dismiss them or overlook them in your search for flowery words or constant reassurances then you miss out on learning another langage altogether that's definitely worth knowing. I'm not unevolved enough to assume I can't learn anything or grow from someone else's pace or style.


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## toni (Sep 11, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> With me, what you see is what you get and if you don't show by word, expression or action then I don't agonize over it. You lose out on my friendship, my love and respect and I move on. Onward and upwards cos life is too fucking short for bullshit from either side.
> 
> When you respect yourself, worthy people respect you. The key is to separate the wheat from the chaff and walk away from the garbage you discard rather than live with it because you think it's all you've got. That was a hard lesson to learn but something I needed to grow as a person.



Totally agree...great post!


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## Still a Skye fan (Sep 11, 2010)

MadameMedusa said:


> Hey,
> Ok here's my rant.
> Why, in this day and age is it so hard for men to communicate? Okay you can call,text,email,IM and gad knows what else from a single phone, we know this because we all can! So how do men think it's OK to not give any kind of heads up just out of consideration, or good manners is really weak. And rude.
> There.



I'm sorry for whatever upset you, Miss Medusa, but I always try to be clear and communicate well over the phone.

Dennis


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## mossystate (Sep 11, 2010)

happyface83 said:


> A lot of men just don't like to talk on the phone. Most men are just not talkers. We women talk too much. I have just come to accept the fact that men are truly different from women; there may be both biological and sociological factors that are responsible for these differences. The sooner you accept this fact, the better you will feel. Also, this is a pretty contradictory, a man would open up to you when he is truly in love with you.
> 
> There have been studies that show that the average woman speaks more than the average man
> http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003420.html



I don't agree that men talk less than women. Men just talk about what interests them, and they go on and on and on.  That is really just...human, at least at times. If the amount of talk is something that is simply natural, why would you say that women talk " too much ", but not say that men talk ' too little ' ? The link you provided seems to be saying that it is not at all clear, and that so many of the stats are just a little too freely and loosely spouted. 
-----

To the OP - there are all kinds of people, women and men, who do the rude thing you mentioned. 
-----
I do think one of the biggest problems is that both ' sides ' house people who will scoff at the very traits that often benefit them, or could benefit them - and even though I have known waaaay too many men and women who do not fit the strict stereotypes mentioned, I also do believe there are slight average differences in how communication presents itself. Now, people who are forever hiding behind fast food literature about the subject.." hey, I am just a guy...I am just a woman...this is how I am "...those people I wanna throttle. lol Unless you are a total blockhead, you can learn...you can adapt...you can care about the majority of ways you communicate with other human beings.


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## bigsexy920 (Sep 11, 2010)

Anyone who knows me knows that I bend over backwards to tread lightly and am understanding when it comes to men and their needs. Really people who know me say. 

Really its ok to hurt our feelings for something real - like your feelings about us rather than just not saying something - I mean chances are we will be upset either way, but if you tell us why at least we know. 

Dont get me wrong - I KNOW how women can be - I am one - i know Im hard to take at times but Im sure you are too. But if we were a couple Id still respect you enough to answer you if called me. 



Dromond said:


> It's real easy to say "man up, men!" I get sick of hearing that phrase, quite frankly. We're supposed to understand you and your ways, what about you taking some time to try to understand us and our ways? You want honesty from men? Then it's time for you to try to meet us on our turf. Understanding is not a one way street.


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## Dromond (Sep 11, 2010)

The average man doesn't like talking about feelings. It's a societal thing, men are taught to hide emotions and most take those lessons to heart. It's reinforced by society. Talking about feelings is not manly. For women to expect men to talk about feelings as freely as women is an exercise in futility. When cornered by a woman and pressured about his feelings, most men clam up. Men don't give each other explanations when a friendship ends. They just go their separate ways without further comment. When dealing with the end of a relationship, men are inclined to act in the same way. I don't act that way, but I've never been a "typical male."


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## mimosa (Sep 12, 2010)

I have no problems with men communicating with me. I have two guy friends I am super close with. In my opinion, they talk too damn much at times. They tell me things sometimes I do not want to know about and feel too comfortable with me. I am very thankful for that. *But I do have the same problem thirtiesgirl is talking about in this post. 
*
Most of the time, I catch a few men in that type of lie. When someone tells me stuff like this, I wait for them to prove it to me in action. 

I honestly think it's not always about gender, its about the person. 

I am one of those women that is learning how to communicate better. In the past, I did not always express my feelings when I was upset. 

But now I am communicating more but doing my best to also remain a respectful lady. 







thirtiesgirl said:


> *What I don't understand is why he'd spin me a line of bullshit in his first message - the whole thing about paying for a membership just so he could contact me, that I'm "the one for him," etc. He could have just as easily written, "I think you're kind of cute and I think we share some interests. Care to talk?" Why the need for the deception?
> 
> And here's the kicker: when I called him on it, he wrote back an indignant response, claiming he was completely sincere with his first message, and apparently expected me to believe he was being sincere, too. Yeah, sure: you've just spent $16 a month to contact only me on this dating website because you think I'm "the one for you"; meanwhile, you've been e-mailing another woman and have a date planned with her for the very next day. Disingenuous much?*


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## Dromond (Sep 12, 2010)

thirtiesgirl said:


> Of course this isn't the _only_ instance of bullshit behavior I've experienced from men over the years. This was just the most recent example. So explain this to me, folks: why do men engage in this kind of behavior? What's the point in this kind of miscommunication? When I say or write things, I mean them, and I expect the same from others. Is that such a hard expectation to meet?



I missed this the first read through the thread, sorry.

Answer: What you've encountered is the garden variety asshole. There isn't a big secret reason, he's just an asshole. I know it's no consolation, but women do it too.


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## Forgotten_Futures (Sep 12, 2010)

Like many others here, I take extreme issue with the lack of use of the word 'some' when describing the opposite gender and how they are.

SOME men are assholes. SOME women are assholes, too. SOME men and women are decent people.

The problem begins and ends where the two groups collide. Asshole men/women don't know or care enough to be decent to decent men/women, and decent men/women aren't caddish enough to get why asshole men/women are assholes.

It's rather similar to the difference between introverts (like me) and extroverts. We intros can understand extros, even though we cannot truly emulate their nature (though we tend to mimic it in closed groups of like-minded individuals) and WILL overload if we don't get our precious alone time. Extros, on the other hand, can't begin to comprehend an existence without socialization, and thus we are bizarre freaks to them.


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## KittyKitten (Sep 12, 2010)

toni said:


> That or some people, like yourself, take every opportunity to wiggle their finger and reprimand people.
> 
> Hey, at least you are quick on the draw.


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## Lovelyone (Sep 12, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> While it could have been couched more appropriately, the subject is a worthy one.
> 
> We all communicate differently and there is something to be said about the Venus/Mars thing but if a man can't make an attempt at communicating with me then it's frustrating so I don't entertain those situations. I let everyone know how I feel and what I want and yes, I know that's ME but I'm honest and don't expect anything more or less from anyone else, men or women. I'm not going to analyze and waste time and I never think to myself, well he's the only prospect so I have to baby or indulge him or wipe his nose or ass. No. I'd rather be alone.
> 
> ...



Bolded for emphasis. 

As for the question posed by the OP, its just my little $ .02 worth but men and women think differently. Women want to hear the reason why..and some men want to just be done with it. I don't personally think that all men are like this, but I believe that most of the ones who are like this aren't doing it purposefully. Sometimes I wonder if they just do that because men are analytical creatures. They evaluate what's the best path to say what's needed to be said with the least amount of trouble/pain/emotion. I just think that women are by nature curious and emotional people who need a reasoning. Men sometimes aren't as emotional, don't really want to get into things, and are okay with just being short, curt, and blunt to get away from a situation. Yes, sometimes it comes off as disrespectful but I don't think its always MEANT that way.


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## bmann0413 (Sep 13, 2010)

I tend to get shy whenever I'm talking to a female. For me, I'd have to warm up to you for me to hold a full-blown conversation with you. And even then, I tend to be more of a listener than a talker.


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## Webmaster (Sep 15, 2010)

MadameMedusa said:


> Hey,
> Ok here's my rant.
> Why, in this day and age is it so hard for men to communicate? Okay you can call,text,email,IM and gad knows what else from a single phone, we know this because we all can! So how do men think it's OK to not give any kind of heads up just out of consideration, or good manners is really weak. And rude.
> There.



I think a larger issue is at work here. At least in my experience, when given unwelcome news, even if it's minor, most women have a tendency to make men feel bad and guilty. As a result, men shy away from communicating anything they are fairly sure will result in a negative reaction.

Would it make much more sense to simply be forthcoming with the information anyway, even knowing what the reaction will be? Most likely. But many men apparently will be driven to postpone, avoid or procrastinate rather than facing a negative response. 

This can be something as small as announcing a business trip met with an "Oh? Sure, go ahead and entertain yourself while I am stuck at home" to far stronger negativity on more important issues. If men knew that negative news were met with what men would consider a rational response, they'd probably be much more likely to communicate.

Definitely a gender difference issue.


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 15, 2010)

Webmaster said:


> I think a larger issue is at work here. At least in my experience, when given unwelcome news, even if it's minor, most women have a tendency to make men feel bad and guilty. As a result, men shy away from communicating anything they are fairly sure will result in a negative reaction.
> 
> Would it make much more sense to simply be forthcoming with the information anyway, even knowing what the reaction will be? Most likely. But many men apparently will be driven to postpone, avoid or procrastinate rather than facing a negative response.
> 
> ...


 
Conrad, if it is your experience that most women are passive-aggressive and haul out the guilt trip, perhaps you should consider that the common denominator here is YOU. Have you considered that you are drawn to a certain type of woman? Because I can tell you that in my experience, most women at all like you've described. I'm certainly not. I take ownership of my feelings, and if my husband says or does something that upsets me, I let him know in no uncertain terms without leaking it out sideways (passively). That isn't intended to make him feel guilty. If he reacts that way, or withholds information from me because he wishes to avoid unpleasantness, that's his problem - not mine.

Fortunately, I've married a grown-up, and he doesn't blame me for his shortcomings anymore than I blame him for mine.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Sep 15, 2010)

Webmaster said:


> I think a larger issue is at work here. At least in my experience, when given unwelcome news, even if it's minor, most women have a tendency to make men feel bad and guilty.
> Definitely a gender difference issue.



Please excuse me for going to Deborah Tannen again, but she says men tend to regard their suggestions as separate from themselves, and women tend to perceive rejection of their suggestions as rejection of themselves. And I think she's wrong here. I think it may have been truer a generation ago, when her book was written; but, working with college students as I do, I often see both men and women -- younger ones, at least -- identifying so strongly with their opinions and suggestions that they respond to disagreement, however mild, as a personal attack. I think in some ways men and women may be becoming more alike.


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## thirtiesgirl (Sep 15, 2010)

Dromond said:


> I missed this the first read through the thread, sorry.
> 
> Answer: What you've encountered is the garden variety asshole. There isn't a big secret reason, he's just an asshole. I know it's no consolation, but women do it too.



Yes, I know he's a typical asshole. Nothing exceptional about him. I just get so damn tired of people (men and women alike) saying things and not meaning them. I'm not a bullshitter and never have been. It's not how I like to relate to people and I'd really prefer it if they didn't do so with me. I don't tolerate any kind of assholery, of the garden variety kind, or the rarer red dwarf or worm hole continuum.

My question is, what do people get from behaving this way? The guy fed me a line of bullshit, which became apparent as soon as he told me he was interested in dating someone else. Did he really expect that I'd fall for the bullshit after he told me about the other woman? Did he really expect that I wouldn't get pissed off at him for lying about paying for a membership just to write to me and that he thinks I'm "the one for him"? I have no idea why he'd choose that behavior, since it seems pretty obvious that it was destined to fail. If you contact someone on a dating site, isn't the intent of your actions to try and make a successful connection, whether that connection is a booty call or something a little deeper? It honestly doesn't make sense to me.


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## Dromond (Sep 15, 2010)

TraciJo67 said:


> Conrad, if it is your experience that most women are passive-aggressive and haul out the guilt trip, perhaps you should consider that the common denominator here is YOU. Have you considered that you are drawn to a certain type of woman? Because I can tell you that in my experience, most women at all like you've described. I'm certainly not. I take ownership of my feelings, and if my husband says or does something that upsets me, I let him know in no uncertain terms without leaking it out sideways (passively). That isn't intended to make him feel guilty. If he reacts that way, or withholds information from me because he wishes to avoid unpleasantness, that's his problem - not mine.
> 
> Fortunately, I've married a grown-up, and he doesn't blame me for his shortcomings anymore than I blame him for mine.



I don't agree with Conrad in how common it is. The majority of women are not brittle passive aggressives. Unfortunately, enough are that it tends to make men skittish. If I touch something that looks like "X," and three times out of ten I get an electric shock, I'm going to be wary about touching anything that looks like "X" in the future.


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## bigbri (Sep 15, 2010)

Speaking of communication...has anyone else noted that MadamMedusa has not responded to any inquiries on specifics of her situation or in general to the responses? While I understand good threads sustain continued discussion on their own, perhaps failures of communication can exist in both sexes. More directly to my interpretation of the question, I believe it centers on the male reluctance to commit and our general inability to deal with emotions. Let sleeping dogs lie; don't kick old road apples; fade quietly into the night; when it's over, it's over and all that. We get turned down and don't usually ask for a critique on our method, so we don't care to oblige in return.


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## mossystate (Sep 15, 2010)

And then there are those people who get all passive agressive in part because they have been dismissed way too many times. It's not a great way to live, but sometimes it is a chicken/egg kind of thing. 

People either want better for themselves - or they don't. If a relationship has too much, " oh, not gonna say anything, cuz XYZ ", then why bother.


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## Dromond (Sep 15, 2010)

thirtiesgirl said:


> My question is, what do people get from behaving this way? The guy fed me a line of bullshit, which became apparent as soon as he told me he was interested in dating someone else. Did he really expect that I'd fall for the bullshit after he told me about the other woman? Did he really expect that I wouldn't get pissed off at him for lying about paying for a membership just to write to me and that he thinks I'm "the one for him"? I have no idea why he'd choose that behavior, since it seems pretty obvious that it was destined to fail. If you contact someone on a dating site, isn't the intent of your actions to try and make a successful connection, whether that connection is a booty call or something a little deeper? It honestly doesn't make sense to me.



The answer to that depends on the person. Sometimes they are playas. Sometimes they are assholes. Sometimes they are sociopathic and get off on causing pain. There could be many other reasons.

People who lie, do it because they can. Telling a lie about yourself allows you to present yourself as someone better, more important, more talented, more educated, whatever, than you really are. It's counterfeit egotism, more often than not.

Do they think it will work? Most really don't, but every once in a while they'll hook someone with really low self-esteem who will buy into their lame excuses. It's like fishing. You'll never catch all, or even most, of the fish, but if you catch one or two you've had a good day.


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## CastingPearls (Sep 15, 2010)

nevermind..................


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 15, 2010)

Dromond said:


> I don't agree with Conrad in how common it is. The majority of women are not brittle passive aggressives. Unfortunately, enough are that it tends to make men skittish. If I touch something that looks like "X," and three times out of ten I get an electric shock, I'm going to be wary about touching anything that looks like "X" in the future.


 
I didn't really care for the premise of this thread, the generalizations involved, although I did understand and respect the OP's frustration. I do believe that we're conditioned from birth to expect that men are THIS, women are THAT. Today, my 4-year-old son refused to eat his pink Skittles because "pinks are for girls". I didn't teach him that; at least, not consciously. It doesn't bother me, anyway -- I find it fascinating, observing what he's learning without anyone directly teaching him. 

If I were to go by much of what I've observed in this thread, I'd come to the conclusion that women are shrill and overly emotional and passive-aggressive. Men, on the other hand, are avoidant and just plain passive. But I don't think any of that is true. I think that failure to communicate effectively within relationships is ... individual failure to communicate effectively. 

And I believe that we're drawn to what we know, what we're comfortable with. This is true for me, although it took me many years to acknowledge my own failures and shortcomings in how I was relating to people, in the unnecessary drama that was being created, and the constant negative patterns that I assumed were "other" instead of "self" directed. 

Sure, there are some real gender differences. How can we avoid it? But I don't like seeing them applied wholesale, and I think we rely far too much on assigning blame for gender differences rather than figuring out where we are, individually, failing each other.


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## Paquito (Sep 15, 2010)

Rude bitches are rude bitches, gender doesn't matter.


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## Webmaster (Sep 16, 2010)

That may well be, which is why I said in my personal experience. It has, however, happened enough times and in enough different situations and with enough different people that I think it's more than just coincidence. I further didn't say women are passive-aggressive, you did. I simply pointed out a mannerism that I frequently see, and one that I find is affecting communications. Further yet, my advice to you would be to occasionally simply acknowledge someone else's opinion without instantly starting to psychoanalyze them. 



TraciJo67 said:


> Conrad, if it is your experience that most women are passive-aggressive and haul out the guilt trip, perhaps you should consider that the common denominator here is YOU. Have you considered that you are drawn to a certain type of woman? Because I can tell you that in my experience, most women at all like you've described. ....


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 16, 2010)

Webmaster said:


> That may well be, which is why I said in my personal experience. It has, however, happened enough times and in enough different situations and with enough different people that I think it's more than just coincidence. I further didn't say women are passive-aggressive, you did. I simply pointed out a mannerism that I frequently see, and one that I find is affecting communications. Further yet, my advice to you would be to occasionally simply acknowledge someone else's opinion without instantly starting to psychoanalyze them.


 
Conrad, you said this:
_This can be something as small as announcing a business trip met with an "Oh? Sure, go ahead and entertain yourself while I am stuck at home" to far stronger negativity on more important issues. If men knew that negative news were met with what men would consider a rational response, they'd probably be much more likely to communicate._

Just what would you call that behavior? Upfront and forthcoming? Or would it be, oh, say, a round-about way of expressing a negative opinion through behaviors that are sullen and passively resistant (i.e., not discussing the REAL problem, and attempting to coerce you by loading on a guilt trip)? You didn't have to SAY it. You gave a near-verbatim textbook definition. And had you said, this has been my experience, with the women I've been involved with, and it is why I am reluctant to communicate ... I'd have had no problem with what you said at all. But you said then, and you are saying now, something altogether different. You are assuming that women _in general_ use irrational guilt trips and, what's more, you're also using this as an excuse for why men may avoid openly communicating their true intent -- because women behave irrationally. Oh, and load on the guilt trips. 

In my experience, people who behave as you've highlighted are probably unaccustomed to communicating their needs/desires openly -- and there could be a whole slew of reasons why. Maybe they feel unheard, unimportant, negated. Perhaps they don't feel that they can express their true concerns (for example: a fear that he's going to cheat while he's out of town on his "business trip"). Or maybe they just learned through trial and error that direct confrontation doesn't work, and a guilt trip does. You said that you've experienced this kind of situation with enough different people to believe that it's not a coincidence (in other words, this is generally a way that you can expect women to react). I believe that it is far more situational than gender-based. 

I suggested that perhaps the common denominator is you, and your experience, and NOT behaviors that can commonly be attributed to women. 

Nothing that you've said since has convinced me otherwise. 

No psycho-analysis here. I don't buy that women generally behave as you've highlighted, so I assume another reason for that behavior.


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