# Are we just the same as a Pro-Ana site?



## bexy (Feb 25, 2008)

*First things first ***DISCLAIMER*** THIS IS NOT MY OPINION SO PLEASE DO NOT BASH ME! I AM JUST INTERESTED TO KNOW WHAT PEOPLE THINK!

i am having a hard time with a friend at the minute. he is a great friend. i love him to bits. but he is overweight and hates it, wants to lose about 4 stone or so. he doesnt like that im confident with my weight. he thinks i should want to lose to be "healthy". he totally disapproves of my doing a paysite and is doing his damn hardest to talk me out of it, as he thinks it will basically just be for people to laugh at the fat girl.

he is a lovely lovely guy, but very image conscious. he "blames" dims for my becoming a lot more accepting and loving of my body. he thinks fat=bad, even though he is overweight himself.

although he doesnt come to dims, he knows i do. he doesnt approve! he says it is just the same as a pro ana website. for those who dont know, pro ana sites promote anorexia, promote being skinny, encourage it, give hints and tips on how to lose weight and hide food etc. they also deal with admirers of very thin women, post pics, post health issues etc.

this got me to thinking. is it the same sort of thing as we have here? we have the erotic weight gain board, for those who want to be bigger, perhaps "excessively"so, gain or encourage people to gain. is it the same thing as having a board for those who want to be superskinny, lose weight, or encourage people to lose weight?

we have pic threads where we can post what we consider to be our hottest pics, so do pro ana boards. 

there are some similarities, but i just cant get my head round considering our community here as being the same as a pro ana  site. i despise the thought of girls being encouraged to starve, to look at emaciated pics for "thinspiration", i dislike the thought of people feeling this need to be thinner and thinner, and therefore only think of such sites in a negative way.
but not being a member of any, how can i honestly comment? how can i judge? surely its someones right to be 5 stone as much as it is my right to be 50 stone if i so desired?

so anyways, my opinion really isnt formed yet, i just wondered what people thought? and yes i know my friend sounds like an idiot lol, hes actually lovely, just very lacking in self esteem and i think he would feel reassured if i also felt that way, as opposed to feeling confident.

*Mods, if you feel this belongs in Hyde Park just pop it over there thank u!*


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 25, 2008)

Well, the whole idea of "pro ana" is a little silly to begin with.

Anorexia Nervosa is an emotional disorder. It's not the same as "being really thin". You can't get a disease from a website. I suffered from it during my teenage years without ever visiting a website. It's very likely that many, if not most of the girls/women who frequent those sites just want to be really thin and try to do so through being restrictive about food. Behaving the way a person behaves if s/he has anorexia is not the same as actually having the disease. I could wash my hands 40 times and _still_ not have OCD.

By the same token, I read Dimensions without having gained any weight. I've actually had a few relapses with bulimia since I've been posting here, so if a website can encourage you towards a certain size or behaviour, either Dims has failed or I have.

The thing about the internet, is by and large you have to be _looking_ for something. In other words, it's not likely you just happen upon a pro-ana site, or a pro size acceptance site.

If you have a strong desire to be thin, you might search out a pro-ana site. If you are fat and want to accept yourself for it, or if you are into erotic weight gain or feederism or you like fat chicks/fat guys, you'd come here. I see nothing wrong with pro-ana sites because again, I don't think you can catch a disease from the internet. And i think if you don't want to be fat, visiting Dims is not going to make you fat.

So I guess in my opinion, you have two types of websites visited by people who want to participate in what those sites have to offer. Both may be controversial, but so what?


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## bexy (Feb 25, 2008)

*see i always considered it to be an illness, a disease etc.

but these websites promote it as a "lifestyle choice", and want it to not be called a disease. and those words were the ones that made me go hmmm, do they have a point? 

thank u lovebhms for sharing your story. thankfully ive never had an eating disorder, my best friend has though. i had to take her to hospital with a toothbrush lodged in her throat and after her baby was born last year she went down to 6 stone and had to be admitted to hospital and fed through her stomach. awful stuff.*


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 25, 2008)

Well, again. Let's say I was a total slob and said "Gosh, I wish I had some amazingly strong mental impetus to be overly neat. I mean, I'm so undisciplined that i wish it were taken out of my hands and I had such strong impulses to be neat that i couldn't help myself."

If you want to be very thin, you might wish you had a mental state that forced the issue. Where not eating was an imperative, rather than a choice. You might think that would make it easy and so you'd think "If I had anorexia, i'd have no choice but to be thin b/c I would not be able to eat." You might think that would be a good thing, but it wouldn't.

A lifestyle is just behaviour. Again, you can _behave_ a certain way. You can not eat, you can exercise till you're drenched in sweat, but that does not make you anorexic.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Feb 25, 2008)

Very good point about the eating disorder, Loves. This site doesn't seem to encourage eating disorders either. (I don't consider erotic weight gain or feederism eating disorders). 
Comparing an eating disorder to the physical characteristic of being fat just doesn't jibe well. Not all people with eating disorders are fat...and not all fat people have eating disorders. I have an eating disorder myself...however, my eating disorder is not "encouraged" here even though it seems "okay" if I, or others, want to talk about them. This site focuses more on acceptance, and support, of a group of people that have been castigated for nothing more than physical appearance. 
Are the anorexics on those sites discriminated against for having an ED? Do the anorexics at those sites suddenly find new confidence and learn to accept themselves as they are (if so, do they stop dieting/starving when they learn to love themselves how they are right now?) Do the pro-ana sites have a sexual component to them? Are there many "AAs" as in Anorexic Admirers aka men or women sexually turned on by people that have anorexia? (I don't mean ultra thin....I mean anorexic..as in what that term truly encompasses).
Do anorexics have a whole world feel discriminatory towards them and treat them as less than human? Is there a "anorexic acceptance" movement going on? I don't see the comparison....and it seems like one that could only be made by someone that has no real concept of what this site is really about.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 25, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Very good point about the eating disorder, Loves. This site doesn't seem to encourage eating disorders either. (I don't consider erotic weight gain or feederism eating disorders).
> Comparing an eating disorder to the physical characteristic of being fat just doesn't jibe well. Not all people with eating disorders are fat...and not all fat people have eating disorders. I have an eating disorder myself...however, my eating disorder is not "encouraged" here even though it seems "okay" if I, or others, want to talk about them. This site focuses more on acceptance, and support, of a group of people that have been castigated for nothing more than physical appearance.
> Are the anorexics on those sites discriminated against for having an ED? Do the anorexics at those sites suddenly find new confidence and learn to accept themselves as they are (if so, do they stop dieting/starving when they learn to love themselves how they are right now?) Do the pro-ana sites have a sexual component to them? Are there many "AAs" as in Anorexic Admirers aka men or women sexually turned on by people that have anorexia? (I don't mean ultra thin....I mean anorexic..as in what that term truly encompasses).
> Do anorexics have a whole world feel discriminatory towards them and treat them as less than human? Is there a "anorexic acceptance" movement going on? I don't see the comparison....and it seems like one that could only be made by someone that has no real concept of what this site is really about.



I do think the term gets misused. There have been a few discussions about a t-shirt that has text on it "I Beat Anorexia". It's supposed to be a joking reference to a fat person wearing the shirt, as in "I'm fat, so I'm glibly saying I beat the disease of anorexia, which is blatantly obvious" even though the person wearing the shirt probably did not have it.

The term is also commonly interchanged with "thin" or "more thin than somebody is attracted to." I've seen posts on here where FAs say "I consider any woman under 250 pounds to be anorexic."

While there may not be an acceptance movement, I do think there should be awareness of the vast difference between somebody having a thin body and having a disease.

As far as the health issue, I do think there are some posts on this board that go too far with regards to the health issue. I'm mainly referring to posts which ridicule the medical community for virtually anything that links obesity and ill health or insist that anything said by a doctor/scientist must necessarily be dismissed as anti-fat bigotry.


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## bexy (Feb 25, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Very good point about the eating disorder, Loves. This site doesn't seem to encourage eating disorders either. (I don't consider erotic weight gain or feederism eating disorders).
> Comparing an eating disorder to the physical characteristic of being fat just doesn't jibe well. Not all people with eating disorders are fat...and not all fat people have eating disorders. I have an eating disorder myself...however, my eating disorder is not "encouraged" here even though it seems "okay" if I, or others, want to talk about them. This site focuses more on acceptance, and support, of a group of people that have been castigated for nothing more than physical appearance.
> Are the anorexics on those sites discriminated against for having an ED? Do the anorexics at those sites suddenly find new confidence and learn to accept themselves as they are (if so, do they stop dieting/starving when they learn to love themselves how they are right now?) Do the pro-ana sites have a sexual component to them? Are there many "AAs" as in Anorexic Admirers aka men or women sexually turned on by people that have anorexia? (I don't mean ultra thin....I mean anorexic..as in what that term truly encompasses).
> Do anorexics have a whole world feel discriminatory towards them and treat them as less than human? Is there a "anorexic acceptance" movement going on? I don't see the comparison....*and it seems like one that could only be made by someone that has no real concept of what this site is really about*.



*exactly!!! i told him to come, read, basically wise the hell up lol, and he would soon change his mind..and just to reiterate, i am not saying i think dims is the same as a pro ana site in any way. i will admit to perhaps thinking if someone chooses to do something with their body, its their choice regardless of what i think. but i also know that dieting to be thin, and starving yourself to be thin are completely different things.*


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## southernfa (Feb 25, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Well, the whole idea of "pro ana" is a little silly to begin with.
> 
> Anorexia Nervosa is an emotional disorder. It's not the same as "being really thin". You can't get a disease from a website. I suffered from it during my teenage years without ever visiting a website. It's very likely that many, if not most of the girls/women who frequent those sites just want to be really thin and try to do so through being restrictive about food. Behaving the way a person behaves if s/he has anorexia is not the same as actually having the disease. I could wash my hands 40 times and _still_ not have OCD.



Agreed. Anorexia is often regarded as a genuine psychiatric condition and I gather it has a lot to do with control issues. There is often a lot more going on than just weight-loss. However, I would suggest the concept of 'pro-ana' is more than a little silly, it really is perverse. For those who are already afflicted it could be used as a form of validation/support for a condition that really isn't healthy (or particularly sane). 

For this site to be considered the obverse of pro-ana sites it would have to be pro-overeating disorders and specifically supporting those mind-sets. Which as far as I can see it doesn't. There is some fairly odd stuff (from my white, boring, middle-aged perspective  ) but it is more sex/fetish-oriented than head-stuff.

That being said, it is a fair bet that a percentage of the ladies here do have some sort of eating disorders and without any sense of a witch-hunt, perhaps Dimensions as a community could be more supportive of those who need to deal with eating issues.

Perhaps another board, moderators?


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## Jon Blaze (Feb 25, 2008)

-This site is a culmination of Size/Fat Accetpance, and Fat Admiration. We're encouraging people to live now, and not let something like weight be a reason for them to suddenly stop their lives. I can't say the same for many pro-ana (And I've seen many a group in my day) sites. Besides encouraging thinness at all costs in many cases, it doesn't seem like body acceptance is a strong force there.

- As LoveBHMS said: That is a psychological disorder. Is body acceptance a disorder? 
It's psychological at its core too. You don't technically "Die" from anorexia (Which actually means "Refusal of food") as much as you die from complications that stem from that.

- Most of the people that believe in the former (Size/Fat Acceptance) don't hate thin people, nor regard it as less. The people there for the most part are pro "Accept yourself at any size," and that's one of many big differences. I know I can't speak for individuals (Unfortunately...), but you can't mark Size/Fat Acceptance with thin hatred, or use them synonymously. Can you mark that with Pro-Ana groups? Hmmmm? (No comment)

-Now if this site was strict on feederism (With the encouragement of weight gain combined with the rebuke of weight loss included), then maybe. However, feederism is type of relationship by which two people have mutualistic attraction to weight gain of any amount on any size person without a concrete goal. The weight gain encouragement action is there, but it's mutual (A), and the weight loss rebuke doesn't have to be a component (B). If I like something, I'm not saying that the opposite puts disdain in my heart in all cases.

Now there is a Fetish/lifestyle/type of relationship that involves mutualistic views on More thinness = more beauty (Which I thought was society, but then I realized it wasn't), but that is NOT anorexia. I forgot the name though.. damnit... 

Most of the people that try to retort "Thinspiration" video for example aren't encouraging weight gain at the same time: It's about accepting yourself. Very big difference there.

I don't want to judge your friend, but it seems he's a bit mistaken by the difference between the concepts, and the fact that all three/four movements can't come to a consensus on all the major issues that they emphasize. Last time I checked (Minus certain sections): I didn't approach you and say "Wow UR PRETTY! U SHUD GAIN LYKE 300 POUNDS! OMG!!!"  How many of those messages did you get? Twenty at best? How many regularly active males are on this board? A couple THOUSAND? How many have seen you? Ah ha. 

But everyone deserves acceptance. I hope that those people struggling find autonomy, but I'm not one to attack them, because I'm trying to support everyone. I am prepared if I'm challenged, and it has happened before, but I'm a defensive counterattack unit.  




This reminds me of the time when someone said fitness is the antithesis of Size/Fat Acceptance.... More confusion...


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 25, 2008)

> i am having a hard time with a friend at the minute. he is a great friend. i love him to bits. but he is overweight and hates it, wants to lose about 4 stone or so. he doesnt like that im confident with my weight. he thinks i should want to lose to be "healthy". he totally disapproves of my doing a paysite and is doing his damn hardest to talk me out of it, as he thinks it will basically just be for people to laugh at the fat girl.



It's also really none of his business if you have a paysite. And to state the obvious, very few people will *pay* just to laugh at a fat girl. If somebody is anti-fat and wants to laugh, they can go to youtube or look at free pictures anywhere on the internet. Paying to laugh would seem silly, and you're going to get your $$ regardless of why somebody would pay for your site. You can laugh all the way to the bank, as it were.

If your friend would prefer to lose weight, more power to him. Let him lose weight. It's really got nothing to do with you and however your feel about your own body, love it or hate it, should have no bearing on what choices he makes for himself.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Feb 25, 2008)

Don't worry about the paysite thing. I've never accidentally stumbled upon a fat girl paysite unless I was looking for one specifically, so the whole "they're all gonna laugh at you" card is ridiculous. 

I don't think this is like the pro-anorexia site very much. I think it's much more psychological over there, although I am sure it is similar in some ways. I think people here just want to come to a place where they don't have to take shit for their size and maybe even be praised for it.

The whole being fat encouragement thing is a very small part of this community. I come here because I can be my fat girl lovin' self and be among people who understand that. I believe on this site it is encouraged to just be yourself no matter what that is.


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## bexy (Feb 25, 2008)

Jon Blaze said:


> I don't want to judge your friend, but it seems he's a bit mistaken by the difference between the concepts, and the fact that all three/four movements can't come to a consensus on all the major issues that they emphasize. Last time I checked (Minus certain sections): I didn't approach you and say "Wow UR PRETTY! U SHUD GAIN LYKE 300 POUNDS! OMG!!!"  How many of those messages did you get? Twenty at best? How many regularly active males are on this board? A couple THOUSAND? How many have seen you? Ah ha.


*
you know what it is, i love my friend, but i really need to try figure out a way to properly explain to him what feederism is, what FA is, what the size acceptance movement is. To be honest I truly do think he believes I come here and have people tell me "HEY STAY FAT, IN FACT GET FATTER" all day everyday.

i understand its hard for him, hes been rejected a lot cos of his weight. hes gay and very young and everyone he likes only seems to want toned boys, skinny boys, pretty boys. his mum is weight loss mad, and i think his mind is just slightly distorted with regards weight issues*


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## Jon Blaze (Feb 26, 2008)

bexylicious said:


> *
> you know what it is, i love my friend, but i really need to try figure out a way to properly explain to him what feederism is, what FA is, what the size acceptance movement is. To be honest I truly do think he believes I come here and have people tell me "HEY STAY FAT, IN FACT GET FATTER" all day everyday.
> 
> i understand its hard for him, hes been rejected a lot cos of his weight. hes gay and very young and everyone he likes only seems to want toned boys, skinny boys, pretty boys. his mum is weight loss mad, and i think his mind is just slightly distorted with regards weight issues*



First (And this is me correcting myself): *The people here* 

Second: You know, I wouldn't call or consider calling a foul if he weren't trying to encourage you in the opposite direction, but he is. No hatred again because I don't know him though. You have the right to keep your ground.

Let's all remember, however that lifestyle is an all cause determinant of mortality.


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## Emma (Feb 26, 2008)

I think certain things can be similer. 

I think people who want to get really really fat for vanity reasons are the same as people who want to get really really skinny for vanity reasons. Then there are some people here with an eating disorder (COE) and people here than encourage them to keep up their behaviour, the same as ana/mia sites. 

The big difference between the two is that there are a lot of people here who are fat through no choice of their own and they're here to find the confidence to live life and be how they are made and make friends with similer people. 

If you have no desire to change, why should you not be allowed to be happy?


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## funkyvixen416 (Feb 26, 2008)

Well with regards to your friend, I think misery loves company. it sounds like he is miserable and he wants you to be miserable. I had a friend, that i got rid of, who was similar in mind set and Gay. Sometimes he would say that being big was why we were both single and other times he would say at least i (me) could go out and get laid if i wanted to because i was a girl. He lost weight and was still single and still never realized it was because he was a total manipulating bastard with no self esteem and in denial. Though to be honest, it is hard for bigger gay males. Why does he go for guys who only want skinny, tone guys (my friend was the same way but he also like straight guys, so he was really in some weird denial)? He needs to find someone that will like him for him. I have noticed this to be problematic for the gay community in the US, it is a shame to hear it is the same across the Atlantic.
I can see how one could regard some of this site as similar to a pro-ane site. It is hard to not be bias, since we are all here with similar thoughts. I personally think too much of anything can be detrimental. But i am fairly certain that no one on this site would turn there eye on a medical condition that might arise from being overweight or eating unlike an anorexic who would probably starve until death ignoring a medical condition. 
I was diagnosed with type-2 diabetes and changed my diet appropriately, which actually meant i had to eat more frequently which was actually hard for me to do cause i had a crazy college schedule. but other then that i am perfectly fine and my doctor even said it was obvious that i ate really well, i just needed to spread out my meals. And my diabetes probably has more to do with my family history and the fact that i am African American. I personally keep active with hiking and walking. i have a friend that is almost 300lb at 5'6 or 5'7 (about 20 stones at 1.7meters) and she was super strong and had a black belt in Tang Su Do. i guess my point is there is a way to be healthy and thin and a way to be healthy and big. 
There are healthy ways to lose weight and restrict one diets without being anorexic. I don't know much about erotic wg or if it can be considered healthy but i guess it depends on how you go about it. i have never heard of erotic anorexia probably because anorexia is a disease, wg is not. Now there is a real diseases in which people can't stop themselves from eating because there brains never get a a signal to stop and will eat themselves to death but i don't think wg is about that. So i would have to say this site is not the same as a pro-ane site.
i think you have brought up a good point though. Kudos to you.


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## Russell Williams (Feb 26, 2008)

bexylicious said:


> *
> 
> i understand its hard for him, hes been rejected a lot cos of his weight. hes gay and very young and everyone he likes only seems to want toned boys, skinny boys, pretty boys. his mum is weight loss mad, and i think his mind is just slightly distorted with regards weight issues*



my thought is, If you do not want to have a poisoned life stay away from toxic people. Is is person a toxic person who is poisoning your life? 

Why hang out withsome one who tells you how bad are the things that are valuable to you?

Russell Williams


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## Jes (Feb 26, 2008)

i see certain parallels between the 2 types of sites, myself.


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## Russell Williams (Feb 26, 2008)

funkyvixen416 said:


> He lost weight and was still single and still never realized it was because he was a total manipulating bastard with no self esteem and in denial. Though to be honest, it is hard for bigger gay males. .



Actually once I gave a presentation to a convention of fat gay men. I do not know if the organization still exists but it may. Let him do the research and find out and if that or similar organizations still exists. Let him join.

Unless he perfers to wallow in his misery and try to get you to join him in misery wallow.

Russell Williams


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## funkyvixen416 (Feb 26, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> Actually once I gave a presentation to a convention of fat gay men. I do not know if the organization still exists but it may. Let him do the research and find out and if that or similar organizations still exists. Let him join.
> 
> Unless he perfers to wallow in his misery and try to get you to join him in misery wallow.
> 
> Russell Williams



A network of other big gay man might be helpful for your friend, as long as though don't also agree with him on needing to lose weight in order to be happy.


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## James (Feb 26, 2008)

Jes said:


> i see certain parallels between the 2 types of sites, myself.


 
yeah... I agree.


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## sweet&fat (Feb 26, 2008)

Jes said:


> i see certain parallels between the 2 types of sites, myself.



I've heard the analogy made a couple of times, once by a woman who is a therapist whose entire profession is devoted to treating eating disorders. For many people, binge eating is very much an eating disorder. The sites aren't the same, but Jes is right.


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## ashmamma84 (Feb 26, 2008)

sweet&fat said:


> I've heard the analogy made a couple of times, once by a woman who is a therapist whose entire profession is devoted to treating eating disorders. For many people, binge eating is very much an eating disorder. The sites aren't the same, but Jes is right.



I definitely agree too.


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## James (Feb 26, 2008)

sweet&fat said:


> I've heard the analogy made a couple of times, once by a woman who is a therapist whose entire profession is devoted to treating eating disorders. For many people, binge eating is very much an eating disorder. The sites aren't the same, but Jes is right.


 

yep... Pro-Ana and thinspiration etc is all about praise and virtue through loss of weight... this site has an undercurrent of praise and virtue through gain of weight. Of course not everyone is here for that fantasy... but the fantasy is protected and defended from outsider disgust in exactly the same manner thinspirational sites defend what we see as dangerous bubbles of self - delusion.

Its all a matter of perspective.


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## ashmamma84 (Feb 26, 2008)

James said:


> yep... Pro-Ana and thinspiration etc is all about praise and virtue through loss of weight... this site has an undercurrent of praise and virtue through gain of weight. Of course not everyone is here for that fantasy... but the fantasy is protected and defended from outsider disgust in exactly the same manner thinspirational sites defend what we see as dangerous bubbles of self - delusion.
> 
> Its all a matter of perspective.



Yes - eating 25 cheeseburgers in one sitting can be seen as "hot", "sexy". There is an aspect of how big a person is...the thrill of seeing the number how ever big it is, excites and encourages a person to keep gaining...how is that any different than what a woman experiences if she is restricting caloric intake and constantly weighs herself?


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## bexy (Feb 26, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> my thought is, If you do not want to have a poisoned life stay away from toxic people. Is is person a toxic person who is poisoning your life?
> 
> Why hang out withsome one who tells you how bad are the things that are valuable to you?
> 
> Russell Williams



*he isnt "toxic" he just doesnt understand, its the same as the way my mind is firmly set fat=good, his is firmly set to fat=bad, so he doesnt understand my thinking and i dont understand his.*


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## bexy (Feb 26, 2008)

ashmamma84 said:


> Yes - eating 25 cheeseburgers in one sitting can be seen as "hot", "sexy". There is an aspect of how big a person is...the thrill of seeing the number how ever big it is, excites and encourages a person to keep gaining...how is that any different than what a woman experiences if she is restricting caloric intake and constantly weighs herself?



*yes, exactly, it is parallels like this that got me to thinking are we similar? 
kudos!*


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## gangstadawg (Feb 26, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Very good point about the eating disorder, Loves. This site doesn't seem to encourage eating disorders either. (I don't consider erotic weight gain or feederism eating disorders).
> Comparing an eating disorder to the physical characteristic of being fat just doesn't jibe well. Not all people with eating disorders are fat...and not all fat people have eating disorders. I have an eating disorder myself...however, my eating disorder is not "encouraged" here even though it seems "okay" if I, or others, want to talk about them. This site focuses more on acceptance, and support, of a group of people that have been castigated for nothing more than physical appearance.
> Are the anorexics on those sites discriminated against for having an ED? Do the anorexics at those sites suddenly find new confidence and learn to accept themselves as they are (if so, do they stop dieting/starving when they learn to love themselves how they are right now?) Do the pro-ana sites have a sexual component to them? Are there many "AAs" as in Anorexic Admirers aka men or women sexually turned on by people that have anorexia? (I don't mean ultra thin....I mean anorexic..as in what that term truly encompasses).
> Do anorexics have a whole world feel discriminatory towards them and treat them as less than human? Is there a "anorexic acceptance" movement going on? I don't see the comparison....and it seems like one that could only be made by someone that has no real concept of what this site is really about.


or basically making statments by being on the outside looking in. gotta love people that make un-researched statments and call them facts. yep bexy maybe you should educate the guy on the way of the DIM board.


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## bexy (Feb 26, 2008)

gangstadawg said:


> or basically making statments by being on the outside looking in. gotta love people that make un-researched statments and call them facts. yep bexy maybe you should educate the guy on the way of the DIM board.



*it happens unfortunately. but i trying to explain to him what this is all about and maybe this will be a good thing as it will end up broadening his horizons!*


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## Jon Blaze (Feb 26, 2008)

ashmamma84 said:


> Yes - eating 25 cheeseburgers in one sitting can be seen as "hot", "sexy". There is an aspect of how big a person is...the thrill of seeing the number how ever big it is, excites and encourages a person to keep gaining...how is that any different than what a woman experiences if she is restricting caloric intake and constantly weighs herself?



Mutualistic views, and a concept of health thrown in at times? 

But no. I'm not trying to shut down your reply. There are surely people that do disregard health in the mix, and do go (Or wish to go) farther than what one person wants.


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## James (Feb 26, 2008)

ashmamma84 said:


> Yes - eating 25 cheeseburgers in one sitting can be seen as "hot", "sexy". There is an aspect of how big a person is...the thrill of seeing the number how ever big it is, excites and encourages a person to keep gaining...how is that any different than what a woman experiences if she is restricting caloric intake and constantly weighs herself?


 
it isnt different... self worth and scale readouts are a bad combination IMHO.

hence there being no scales in my house!


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Feb 26, 2008)

Actually, I have to agree. I do see a lot of similarities between the two sites.
Not all the same, but I can see why someone would say that.


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## butch (Feb 26, 2008)

Yeah, there are some similarities, imo. I had an interesting conversation once with someone who is researching ana and mia sites, and I kept hearing things that reminded me of Dims.

As to your gay friend, Bexy, there is a huge group of fat gay men out there, and lots of websites, to start.

I like bellybuilders.com myself. There's also biggercity.com, and plenty others, once you start looking aorund the web. 

Your friend could also google girth and mirth, which is a social group for gay men and their admirers. Or, you could tell him to check out the very extensive bear scene. That isn't exclusively for fat gay men, but they like 'em big and hairy, typically.

Really, the gay fat male scene seems to be just as active as the FA/BBW scene is, so anyone who thinks fat straight girls has it easier than fat gay men is incorrect.


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## bexy (Feb 26, 2008)

butch said:


> Yeah, there are some similarities, imo. I had an interesting conversation once with someone who is researching ana and mia sites, and I kept hearing things that reminded me of Dims.
> 
> As to your gay friend, Bexy, there is a huge group of fat gay men out there, and lots of websites, to start.
> 
> ...




*thanks butch, ive told him this. thing is he doesnt want to be liked/fancied for his fat. he doesnt want to be fat, thats his problem *


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## butch (Feb 26, 2008)

bexylicious said:


> *thanks butch, ive told him this. thing is he doesnt want to be liked/fancied for his fat. he doesnt want to be fat, thats his problem *



Girth and Mirth sounds more like his style, then. They're not all into the sexualization of fat, but about providing social outlets where fat gay men and others can meet and get to know and appreciate the whole person.


I'm curious about your friend, Bexy, and I hope you don't mind me asking some questions and making some observations. Does he hate his fat so much that he refuses to date until he is thin? If not, then why is he so afraid to even check out some things that are pro-fat gay men? I'm genuinely curious, since we all know the rate of permanent success for weight loss is very low. Hell, I even heard one of the trainers on The Biggest Loser say this a couple of weeks ago, so I always wonder if people who hate their fat as much as your friend does, do they plan on being celibate for their entire lives?

If not, then they need to play the odds, and at least try to find some outlets for dating and intimacy now, rather than later, because later might never come. if nothing else, hanging out in fat gay male sites might give your friend the confidence he needs to then meet the guys who don't care one way or the other if their partner is fat. Hating himself today, for whatever reason, makes him unattractive to others regardless of his weight.

And I say that not to be cruel, but because it is something I struggle with, too. And it doesn't get fixed when someone loses weight, at least not in my experience, and your friend deserves to be happy, and to be loved, no matter what size he is. 

I'm not saying he needs to love his fat, or he needs to stay fat, but he needs to love himself now, today, regardless, as its all we get. If he can't get past his fat to do that, then in the end fat is not his problem, its his mind, and he needs to be in therapy or some sort of support group.

I'm sorry if I sound too tough love about your friend, but if he's projecting all that self hate (ie: fat hatred) onto you, then eventually that hatred of fat is got to be corrosive to you, no? And you don't deserve that, either.

I reaaly feel awful for your friend, and want the best for him. I hope he finds happiness, whatever it may be for him.


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## BeckaBoo (Feb 26, 2008)

Yeah, i have to agree with what James and a few others have said.
There are definitely similarities, both BBW/BHM based sites and Pro-Ana are geared towards admiration and acceptance of human bodies which are perceived to be out of the boundaries of social normality's. 

Different strokes for different folks...


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## bexy (Feb 26, 2008)

butch said:


> Girth and Mirth sounds more like his style, then. They're not all into the sexualization of fat, but about providing social outlets where fat gay men and others can meet and get to know and appreciate the whole person.
> 
> 
> I'm curious about your friend, Bexy, and I hope you don't mind me asking some questions and making some observations. Does he hate his fat so much that he refuses to date until he is thin? If not, then why is he so afraid to even check out some things that are pro-fat gay men? I'm genuinely curious, since we all know the rate of permanent success for weight loss is very low. Hell, I even heard one of the trainers on The Biggest Loser say this a couple of weeks ago, so I always wonder if people who hate their fat as much as your friend does, do they plan on being celibate for their entire lives?
> ...



*hey butch

its hard to explain the way he is. first of he is a great friend. we very very rarely talk about weight, thats probably why this time i've made such a deal out of it.

he never says anything derogatory to me about my weight, just that he doesnt understand the attraction to a fat body. he thinks his fat is ugly. the experiences he has had seem to be boys want to sleep with him, one night stands etc, but never want to be his boyfriend. in fact he's never had a boyfriend. his mum made him go to a slimming club and he won slimmer of the week and all that jazz, only to put it all back on (as per what you said) and hates himself for it. he thinks he wont be happy until he loses weight.
i dont believe he wants me to lose weight, i believe he wishes he could gain the confidence i have, or gain an understanding of why fat is beautiful so he could learn to be comfortable with himself.

he just made the association between the 2 types of sites as he doesnt understand the difference between feederism and Fat Admiration. and lets face it a lot of people here were unaware Fat Admiration even existed at one point. i think he thinks everyone on sites like this is out to take advantage of "the poor fat girl" with no self esteem and push her into doing stuff, gaining, sex whatever. the link he made was that pro ana sites have triggers than can push someone who already thinks theyre overweight to have an eating disorder, the same can be said if someone very vulnerable meets an intense feeder.

what i tried to explain to him was he needs to broaden his horizons. not everything is black and white. people who like fat people dont all like feeding. people who want to be thin arent all anorexic. i even told him to the same extent that all gay men dont do a george michael and cruise for sex, there are HUGE spectrums.*


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## IceTeaPrincess (Feb 26, 2008)

Hi Bexy,
I know you say the dude is a very close friend but some of the things he's saying to you sound kind of disrespectful. Him saying "the poor fat girl" & implying that people would be primarily laughing at pictures of you on a paysite doesn't sound real nice or considerate of him to say to a friend.
I mean, you've won a modelling contest, you're beautiful! 
He is probably very jealous of your confidence & might be saying things to try to undermine it. 
Just my 2 cents...


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## Zoom (Feb 26, 2008)

I guess the question of if our cause is similar to pro-ana groups, depends on if we believe anorexia to always be unhealthy.


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## bexy (Feb 26, 2008)

IceTeaPrincess said:


> Hi Bexy,
> I know you say the dude is a very close friend but some of the things he's saying to you sound kind of disrespectful. Him saying "the poor fat girl" & implying that people would be primarily laughing at pictures of you on a paysite doesn't sound real nice or considerate of him to say to a friend.
> I mean, you've won a modelling contest, you're beautiful!
> He is probably very jealous of your confidence & might be saying things to try to undermine it.
> Just my 2 cents...


*
he didnt actually say "poor fat girl" just what i pick up from him. i think he thinks he is trying to protect me by saying a paysite might be a bad idea in case i get any negative feedback or attention from it.*


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## stan_der_man (Feb 26, 2008)

James said:


> yep... Pro-Ana and thinspiration etc is all about praise and virtue through loss of weight... this site has an undercurrent of praise and virtue through gain of weight. Of course not everyone is here for that fantasy... but the fantasy is protected and defended from outsider disgust in exactly the same manner thinspirational sites defend what we see as dangerous bubbles of self - delusion.
> 
> Its all a matter of perspective.



That's exactly it. Dimensions does have many parallels to Pro-Ana, and so do weight lifting / body building websites. It's all a matter of perspective and what a person prefers. When does advocating acceptance of something become promotion, and when does promotion become outright encouragement? And what is necessarily so bad about encouragement? Advocacy, promotion and encouragement all become bad when they reach the extreme, or when people try to force something upon someone else against their will.

Maybe I'm a simpleton but... Doesn't everything just come down to common sense and what is right for you?



Stan


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## ashmamma84 (Feb 26, 2008)

fa_man_stan said:


> That's exactly it. Dimensions does have many parallels to Pro-Ana, and so do weight lifting / body building websites. It's all a matter of perspective and what a person prefers. When does advocating acceptance of something become promotion, and when does promotion become outright encouragement? And what is necessarily so bad about encouragement? Advocacy, promotion and encouragement all become bad when they reach the extreme, or when people try to force something upon someone else against their will.
> 
> Maybe I'm a simpleton but... Doesn't everything just come down to common sense and what is right for you?
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, I don't think so. Everything that feels good, isn't good for you...and I really think that's where people get into trouble...that a person could be doing what they want, until suddenly it's too late and they find themselves in dire straights. I'd venture to say that some people don't know what's best for them...in a dysfunctional kind of way.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 26, 2008)

ashmamma84 said:


> Unfortunately, I don't think so. Everything that feels good, isn't good for you...and I really think that's where people get into trouble...that a person could be doing what they want, until suddenly it's too late and they find themselves in dire straights. I'd venture to say that some people don't know what's best for them...in a dysfunctional kind of way.



Agreed. If being thin is right for you, go for it. If eating nothing but carrot sticks for two weeks is how you choose to go about it, then not all right. Ignoring potential health risks of being overweight or having an unhealthy lifestyle as far as eating junk food and not exercising is also not all right.

One HUGE difference between pro ana sites and Dims is the sexual content. For many people, weight gain in either themselves or a partner is sexually arousing. For some, their entire sexuality is contained in fetishes about gaining or feeding or having a certain sized partner. Pro ana sites are about being thin because somebody finds a particular body type to be aesthetically pleasing. (There is a marked distiniction between the average site visitors and actually anorexia which is far more complex as to its mindset.)

Interestingly enough, the way I found Dims was that I got really angry when Yahoo and Geocites were closing down pro ana/mia sites. I knew there was such thing as feeding/gaining and starting googling words like those and found Dims. The only reason I could figure that ISP's would allow a site where people encouraged others to weigh 600 pounds was ok but encouraging others to weigh 80 pounds was NOT ok is that the former is sexual.


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## RedVelvet (Feb 26, 2008)

James said:


> it isnt different... self worth and scale readouts are a bad combination IMHO.
> 
> hence there being no scales in my house!




May I come over to your house, then?



(ok....I just like James....and am looking for an excuse...so sue me.)


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## stan_der_man (Feb 27, 2008)

ashmamma84 said:


> Unfortunately, I don't think so. Everything that feels good, isn't good for you...and I really think that's where people get into trouble...that a person could be doing what they want, until suddenly it's too late and they find themselves in dire straights.
> ...





LoveBHMS said:


> ...
> If eating nothing but carrot sticks for two weeks is how you choose to go about it, then not all right. Ignoring potential health risks of being overweight or having an unhealthy lifestyle as far as eating junk food and not exercising is also not all right.
> 
> One HUGE difference between pro ana sites and Dims is the sexual content. For many people, weight gain in either themselves or a partner is sexually arousing. For some, their entire sexuality is contained in fetishes about gaining or feeding or having a certain sized partner. Pro ana sites are about being thin because somebody finds a particular body type to be aesthetically pleasing. (There is a marked distiniction between the average site visitors and actually anorexia which is far more complex as to its mindset.)
> ...





fa_man_stan said:


> ...
> *Advocacy, promotion and encouragement all become bad when they reach the extreme,*
> ...



Where is the disagreement here? That's exactly what I'm talking about. When it gets to the extreme (whether it's about thin or fat) and people are resorting to unhealthy means to achieve certain extreme weight goals then I also believe it is bad. By bad I mean that these people will pay the consequences of poor health for doing things like this.

But who is the judge of what is "extreme"? Is it not reasonable to expect each person to take responsibility for making this judgment?


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## Littleghost (Feb 27, 2008)

I can definitely see where you're coming from on this; I do 'thought exercises' all the time on whether one side is just the mirror version of the other: Liberals vs. Conservatives, etc.

But the main difference I see is this: Dimensions exists _because_ of things like Pro-Ana sites. Those sites are like pulling forces, continually criticizing, saying that you're more worthy and beautiful the skinnier you are.

However, dimensions is a counterbalance not to drag _everyone_ to fat, but to neutralize its effects on fat people. Saying, "hey, not only is it okay to be fat and accept yourself, but other people will accept you too!" instead of "Hey, you _need_ to be fat and get fatter, because otherwise you're disgusting and worthless. If your friend doesn't buy it, point out that Pro-Ana sites use pics of BBWs for 'thinspiration', but the opposite isn't true: where are the 'fat-spiration' pics?

Yes, there are feeders and encouragers on Dimensions, but they're just one aspect. And there are much wider (pun intended?) degrees of healthy weights on the fat side than the thin. Ranges of around 200, 300, and 400 vs. 100 to say 80, and even that is getting very dangerous for most. They have to maintain it too, their bodies are naturally fighting against such a state.

So in the end, it's not so much that Dimensions is ice to Pro-Ana's fire, it's more like a fireman to help control the damage. Hopefully this helps.

P.S. You probably already know, but this is really his issue, and unless he's willing to deal with it (doesn't sound like it) then there's really only so much you can do, and are better off trying to avoid it, possibly even him.


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## fatchicksrockuk (Feb 27, 2008)

As I understand it, anorexia (as a medical disorder) as about always wanting to lose weight, to the point potentially of organ failure. An anorexic always feels they are too fat. Pro-ana sites, if they are encouraging this behaviour, are fundamentally different to Dimensions. Dimensions is about size-acceptance. Pro-ana sites are about changing your size. So, in my difference, there is a difference. The weight gain aspect of Dimensions is a relatively small part, whereas the weight loss aspect of pro-ana sites is the main part?


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## stefanie (Feb 27, 2008)

fatchicksrockuk said:


> As I understand it, anorexia (as a medical disorder) as about always wanting to lose weight, to the point potentially of organ failure. An anorexic always feels they are too fat. Pro-ana sites, if they are encouraging this behaviour, are fundamentally different to Dimensions. Dimensions is about size-acceptance. Pro-ana sites are about changing your size. So, in my difference, there is a difference. The weight gain aspect of Dimensions is a relatively small part, whereas the weight loss aspect of pro-ana sites is the main part?



These are some really good points. For one thing, while deliberate weight gain *is* a part of Dimensions, it's not all of Dimensions, and it certainly isn't (from what I've seen at least) much of a part of fat acceptance. Pro-ana by definition is about losing weight, no matter what.

The point which caught my eye, though, was that someone who's truly anorexic *never* thinks they're "too thin." They can be 80 lbs and "see" themselves as "grossly obese" (in their words.) That disconnect from the way the body really is, versus the perception, does NOT seem to be the case with those who want to gain. They may not *like* how their thinner bodies look, but (to my knowledge) they don't have a radically distorted view of what their bodies *do* look like.

I hear a lot of affirmation for women of size on Dimensions, whether they gain or not. That I would say is the biggest difference - here women (and men, on the BHM/FFA board) are *affirmed,* whereas pro-ana sites seem to never really affirm anyone - because they *never* can be really "beautiful;" they *never* can be "thin enough." Everyone's a "failure" if they have to eat even the barest minimum to survive.

Another difference is that pro-ana sites (from what I've seen) really feel a need to put fat people down. There's even a "negative inspiration" community on LJ, where they post mostly old-meme pictures of fat people, and go EWWW IF I EAT ONE MORE FORKFUL OF CAULIFLOWER ILL LOOK LIKE THAT. (No, I won't link to it, LOL.) Around here, I don't see people needing to put thinner people down, just to feel good about their size.


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## fatchicksrockuk (Feb 27, 2008)

stefanie said:


> These are some really good points. For one thing, while deliberate weight gain *is* a part of Dimensions, it's not all of Dimensions, and it certainly isn't (from what I've seen at least) much of a part of fat acceptance. Pro-ana by definition is about losing weight, no matter what.
> 
> The point which caught my eye, though, was that someone who's truly anorexic *never* thinks they're "too thin." They can be 80 lbs and "see" themselves as "grossly obese" (in their words.) That disconnect from the way the body really is, versus the perception, does NOT seem to be the case with those who want to gain. They may not *like* how their thinner bodies look, but (to my knowledge) they don't have a radically distorted view of what their bodies *do* look like.
> 
> ...



Thank you! It's a good point regarding the pro-ana sites putting people down. Dimensions is a very positive place, and is all the better for it


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## butch (Feb 27, 2008)

I mention this not because I disagree with what others have said, but there are studies that suggest fat people see themselves as smaller than they really are. I'm not endorsing those studies, and I imagine if they are accurate about a certain percentage of fat people, that this distorted perception is not the same as the one driving anorexic people.

Just fyi.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 28, 2008)

butch said:


> I mention this not because I disagree with what others have said, but there are studies that suggest fat people see themselves as smaller than they really are. I'm not endorsing those studies, and I imagine if they are accurate about a certain percentage of fat people, that this distorted perception is not the same as the one driving anorexic people.
> 
> Just fyi.



That makes sense, there is no reason to believe that dysmorphia or a flawed body image or sense of one's size would have to be limitted to thinking you were bigger than you really were.


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## Jon Blaze (Feb 28, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> That makes sense, there is no reason to believe that dysmorphia or a flawed body image or sense of one's size would have to be limitted to thinking you were bigger than you really were.



Yep. That's right. :bow:


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Feb 28, 2008)

butch said:


> I mention this not because I disagree with what others have said, but there are studies that suggest fat people see themselves as smaller than they really are. I'm not endorsing those studies, and I imagine if they are accurate about a certain percentage of fat people, that this distorted perception is not the same as the one driving anorexic people.
> 
> Just fyi.




I used to be like that before I hit the high 400's. I used to think I was just chubby and solid. Then I realised I was huge and I've never been the same inside.


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## Littleghost (Feb 28, 2008)

butch said:


> I mention this not because I disagree with what others have said, but there are studies that suggest fat people see themselves as smaller than they really are. I'm not endorsing those studies, and I imagine if they are accurate about a certain percentage of fat people, that this distorted perception is not the same as the one driving anorexic people.
> 
> Just fyi.



Yeah, there's been at least one thread around here about BBWs and body dysmorphia. It seemed to be mostly about whether one could fit into things or just general perception than being ''too thin''. Can't find it though, of course. :doh:


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## EtobicokeFA (Mar 1, 2008)

Littleghost said:


> I can definitely see where you're coming from on this; I do 'thought exercises' all the time on whether one side is just the mirror version of the other: Liberals vs. Conservatives, etc.
> 
> But the main difference I see is this: Dimensions exists _because_ of things like Pro-Ana sites. Those sites are like pulling forces, continually criticizing, saying that you're more worthy and beautiful the skinnier you are.
> 
> ...



Very nice analyst. I agree with it totally.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 1, 2008)

Littleghost said:


> I can definitely see where you're coming from on this; I do 'thought exercises' all the time on whether one side is just the mirror version of the other: Liberals vs. Conservatives, etc.
> 
> But the main difference I see is this: Dimensions exists _because_ of things like Pro-Ana sites. Those sites are like pulling forces, continually criticizing, saying that you're more worthy and beautiful the skinnier you are.
> 
> ...



Women (and let's assume it's 99.9% women) visit those sites because they want to lose weight. They have nothing to do with learning to accept yourself at whatever size you are. But more importantly, the site visitors are internally driven. Message boards are not filled with posters attacking each other, right or wrong, they are supportive of each other's intent to become very thin.

Most of the "thinspiration" is not pictures of fat women, it's pictures of very thin women, mostly supermodels or actresses who are known to be quite skinny (think Kate Bosworth or Kiera Knightly, not healthier thin actresses like Jennifer Aniston).

Dims does not counter balance a pro-ana site, if for no other than reason than the vast majority (and there are exceptions) of women who go to pro-ana sites don't want to be accepted at a certain size, they want to change their size.


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## AtlantisAK (Mar 1, 2008)

I haven't read through this entire thread yet as to what other people have said about this matter...but here's mine:

I personally don't agree with Pro-Ana sites. I read through one on just the first page and felt so disgusted by what they were saying. From what I saw, it appeared at least 80% were either just recovering or on their way to the hospital AGAIN. Here at Dims...I don't see and read about as many people needing to go to the hospital, although some do...but not nearly as many as on Pro-Ana sites.
My view on weight, weither it is great or small...is that it shouldnt be forced so that you need to go to the hospital to recover. I'm not a big fan of forced weight loss/gain. Neither are for me. I'm happy and healthy where I am. But I won't nessicarily go around preaching to others that they should or shouldnt do it. It's their choice. But if they are my friends and they are about to or are in the hospital because of weight loss or gain, then I will, as a friend, say something and try to help. I want my friends around. But to push the issue won't work because no one will accept help if they don't want it. 
I think that Pro-Ana sites do encourage people to do bad things to themselves. As another Dimmer said "I don't think you can catch a disease from the internet." I agree...But you can be influenced by things, such as the media like websites, books and all of that.
You could be new here at Dims for example, already a large person perfectly content with your size. But upon seeing the larger women post their beautiful pictures, you could be inspired to gain more weight to be like them. Thus, influenced 'but not catching a disease'. The same with Pro-Ana sites. It's influencial and most often, makes the real situation a 'pretty one'. Which anorexia isnt at all...It has more side effects than obesity. At least, from what I've seen, read about and experienced.
I agree with the thing: Be your weight, be happy and enjoy it. As long as you're healthy and happy, it doesn't matter. We seem to be healthier and happier here at Dims, versus over at a Pro-Ana site. We're more happy with ourselves and the Pro-Anas hardly seem to be.
And I was thinking earlier, after I saw my first Pro-Ana site, that they must be just as disgusted with us as we are of them. Lord only knows how many anorexics I've seen who've given me the worst looks ever. And honestly, I've tried not to give them back myself.

But baseline is...Anorexia isnt healthy. It is an unhappy, unhealthy and miserable thing. Obesity can get unhealthy with too much of it and quite possibly unhappy, depending on your frame of mind with fat.

-End of my opinion! Must go to work now!


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 1, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Dims does not counter balance a pro-ana site, if for no other than reason than the vast majority (and there are exceptions) of women who go to pro-ana sites don't want to be accepted at a certain size, they want to change their size.




Quoted for emphasis


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## OutbackZack (Mar 1, 2008)

I think in some small aspects we are, but to then again we're not. It really depends on how you look at it. Hence different points of view. I know some on here believe that erotic weight gain and feederism isn't an eating disorder, but to many outside of pur way of life it is. But this can be applied with any aspect in life.

Here's an example off topic, but yet not. The two bombs that the US droped on Japan to end WWII may be consider a bad or good thing. That in itself depends on point of veiw and how you consider the vaule of someone's life.

In this case it's how you consider the vaule of someone's health. I think in either case, weight gain or weight lost, if it reaches a certain point that it my cost someone's their life then yes it is an eating disorder. But now everyone's body doesn't work the same way. If someone is fat and healthy then they should be able to live that life. This should be the same case with someone thin and helthy. Remember, however, there is a too thin and a too fat, but as to when is that "too" point depends on the person's body.


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## Fuzzy Necromancer (Mar 2, 2008)

Just because there are paralells, that doesn't mean their the same thing. Opposites are opposite. 

Fat and weight gain are not a death scentence.

Anorexia Nervosa, untreated, is. 

A 150 pound girl can gain 150 pounds and still live comfortably. If she tries to lose 150 pounds she is in trouble.


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## OutbackZack (Mar 2, 2008)

Fuzzy Necromancer said:


> Just because there are paralells, that doesn't mean their the same thing. Opposites are opposite.
> 
> Fat and weight gain are not a death scentence.
> 
> ...



Just as there is a point to where you can lose weight and be healthy there is also a point where you can gain weight and be healthy.


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## Jon Blaze (Mar 2, 2008)

OutbackZack said:


> Just as there is a point to where you can lose weight and be healthy there is also a point where you can gain weight and be healthy.



True, but in either case: It's subjective.


Anorexia Nervosa is about the mind. Taking that element out is going straight for the cause. Of course, when you live in a society where people think you can just stop being anorexic/anorectic by choice, it's not surprising why the number go up.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 2, 2008)

Jon Blaze said:


> True, but in either case: It's subjective.
> 
> 
> Anorexia Nervosa is about the mind. Taking that element out is going straight for the cause. *Of course, when you live in a society where people think you can just stop being anorexic/anorectic by choice, it's not surprising why the number go up. *



Reading that part, I did the "flip side' in my mind (that's what this thread is doing , isn't it? ). It made me think how some people in the world seem to think that fat people don't realize they are fat and need some type of "counseling" about "how not to be fat". Some people seem to feel compelled, as if it's their "duty" to tell us we're fat because if we only KNEW what fat pigs we are, then we would surely "change". 
Not all fat people are "fat by choice", not all of us "overeat" and never exercise and we don't have character flaws that are directly linked to what we weigh. Some people are just naturally fatter than others. 

However, in thinking a little on this subject, I remember the reading I did about my own eating disorder (Compulsive Overeater with some bulimic tendencies- I also "Compulsively Diet" ). On some level, in our sub-conscious minds...we project/equate "good qualities" onto fatter people and have some not-so-nice ideas about thinner people. (I am not saying that all fat people do this, just stating something I read in my "self discovery" and feel that, SOMETIMES AND FOR SOME PEOPLE, it might be true).
Personally, I recognize that I, for many years, whilst self-hating myself for being fat, also held onto it as a form of "protection". In all fairness, I am speaking of my own ED and not about "being fat" in general. Not all fat people are fat due to an ED- just like not all thin people are that way due to an ED or constant dieting/exercise.

I also remember reading that anorexics seem to think that if they "just get thin enough" then they will be loved. I wonder if there can be a correlation made into some of the people here that are "willing to gain" for a lover/mate? (How about me with my own compulsive dieting? What was I hoping for?)


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## runnerman (Mar 4, 2008)

I tend to avoid the more serious threads on the Dimensions boards, because I basically come here to relax and enjoy myself. But this thread is thought provoking because it prompts me to ask myself if I am a hypocrite. After all, Ive been an FA all my adult life, and like many others, I sometimes indulge in fantasies about weight gain. So I ask myself whether some of the things that I enjoy about that fantasy and the Dimensions site in general are wrong in some way.

For me, I guess the answer is that this site is harmless fun, if not beneficial to some users, provided that its use remains just that  harmless fun. To be sure, some of the people who come here push the envelope in terms of their personal views and practices. Usually, that can be pretty darn exhilarating. Fantasy is good. Extremes are what make life interesting. And as long as the members respect one another for our differences, we stop well short of that line where dangerous or hurtful actions are tacitly condoned.

In fact, the diversity of viewpoints and the relative safety of these forums are what make this site so great. The Dimensions community accepts everyone. It does not espouse any one point of view, other than the acceptance and appreciation of people for what they are. It allows self-expression, admittedly in pretty extreme ways sometimes, but never renders abusive judgment on individuals. (The terrific moderators see to that.) It respects different viewpoints, preferences, fetishes, compulsions, and activities. It does not encourage people to do anything unhealthy, but rather celebrates the right of every member to make personal decisions about their bodies, their activities, and their lifestyles.

That said, I do think it is possible for individuals to take anything too far in life, to the point where it does harm to themselves or others. To go back to the topic of this thread, just like some people may desire to be thin to the point of it being unhealthy, a few folks in this community may lose their grip on personal habits that affect their health and well-being. We all care enough about one another in this on-line community to hope that doesnt happen, but for some, it does.

I believe the bottom line for all of us is self-awareness and a positive body image, no matter what size one may be. The Dimensions community promotes these values every day. 

So if someone thinks that they may not have full control over their decisions about their weight or some other aspect of their life, then it might be time to ask for help  from family, friends, professionals, or others whom they trust. Ive seen many posts where Dimensions members offered comfort and support for their friends in the community who needed that sort of help.

To me, thats what makes this site something much better than merely the flip side of a pro-AN site. Yes, its a community of large beautiful people and their admirers. Yes, the imagery can get pretty intense. Yes, there even is a focus in some quarters on weight gain. But it all happens in a setting of diversity and acceptance and in an atmosphere of mutual support for those who may need it. Quite the opposite of a site that advocates one lifestyle above others.

Thanks to Conrad and the mods for providing these forums.

Thats all. Sorry to ramble. Back to the fun stuff.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 4, 2008)

I think to a degree you're missing what pro-ana sites are about.

The internet is necessarily a one way medium. That is why internet ads/marketing is a challenge, because somebody has to come looking for you.

Saying that pro-ana sites promote one size or lifestyle to the exclusion of others is like saying that a site devoted to accupuncture promotes accupuncture to the exclusion of other treatments. Somebody is reading or posting on a site about accupuncture because they either use it or want to know more about it.

Pro ana sites are populated by women who *look for them.* Anyone who reads those sites already wants to pursue a certain size or lifestyle or way of behaving. Others on the site just encourage it the same as some posters on Dims would encourage somebody who posted about eating dessert and not feeling guilty or giving away clothes to Goodwill that no longer fit because she did not plan to lose weight.


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## Fuzzy Necromancer (Mar 4, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I also remember reading that anorexics seem to think that if they "just get thin enough" then they will be loved. I wonder if there can be a correlation made into some of the people here that are "willing to gain" for a lover/mate? (How about me with my own compulsive dieting? What was I hoping for?)



I, too, can only speak for my personal experience. 

To me, the whoe idea about "just _ enough" to be loved is discordant with everything I know about feeders and feedees.

The idea of "wanna get fatter" and "fat enough" are not conflicting. They go together like blueberries and cream.

It's not that there's some hypothetical weight the person needs to reach to be accepted. It's that feeders and feedees find delight in the journey, the process of getting fatter, rather than a specific weight. I can be attracted to a girl, think she's perfect, and still find the idea of her gaining weight hot. That I would be interested in her gaining does not mean I think she's not fat enough now. 

With the conventional standard of beauty, perfection is a point. Between this weight and this weight. This exact weight, this exact height, this color, etc. For me, it's a spectrum, a geometric progression, a range. That's what I like so much about being a feeder.

I feel a bit like you're ignoring the role of the feedee. The dimensions community is not entirely made up of feeders and girls who are "willing" to gain weight "for them". Feedees gain weight for themselves, because they enjoy it, not to please others. That's what makes them so awesome. That's what gives the idea it's appeal.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 4, 2008)

Fuzzy Necromancer said:


> I
> I feel a bit like you're ignoring the role of the feedee. The dimensions community is not entirely made up of feeders and girls who are "willing" to gain weight "for them". Feedees gain weight for themselves, because they enjoy it, not to please others. That's what makes them so awesome. That's what gives the idea it's appeal.



Didn't mean to imply that ALL people in that type of relationship don't enjoy it or want to do it for reasons other than pleasing a partner. (I should have given more clarity) SOME was the key word in my original post. 
I base my "musings" or wondering not on "my opinion of feeders/feedees" but rather more on what I know about myself, as a woman, and some other women I have known. Some women (and some men) do things solely to please their partners/maintain a relationship even if it was something they would usually not care to do. Some women might do certain sexual acts to please/keep a man (I'm not just talking about the sexual aspect of feederism, either...I'm talking about sex in general), some might pretend to like sports (barfs  ), enjoy certain music, etc. 
No, I don't see all people as this "shallow" or empty-headed....just see some people that don't always have enough self-confidence to "just say no" or "take me as I am"....people who just want to be loved and are willing to do a lot for it.

**I have done a lot for it myself....so no judgment in this post


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## Alias Registration (Mar 5, 2008)

bexylicious said:


> he totally disapproves of my doing a paysite and is doing his damn hardest to talk me out of it, as he thinks it will basically just be for people to laugh at the fat girl.[/B]



woah, woah, woah...
you're doing a paysite?


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## bexy (Mar 5, 2008)

Alias Registration said:


> woah, woah, woah...
> you're doing a paysite?



*yes, yes i am *


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## fffff (Mar 9, 2008)

Im really glad that someone approached this topic. Although I havent been reading this board for very long I think some parallels with pro-ana sites can be made. 

I discovered Dims when looking for size acceptance material. I am not overweight now but I have been at different times in my life. That being said I know what its like to have an emotional connection to food and eating and I am willing to make the assumption that far more people here eat out of emotion than are willing to admit. 
I know that people come in all shapes and a size, being fat doesnt necessarily mean that youre unhealthy, and being thin isnt an indicator of good health. You can fat and beautiful, thin and beautiful, and anywhere in between. There is something incredibly powerful about hearing that you are beautiful the way that you are, that you dont need to change your weight especially for the millions of women who dont fit into societal norms of what is attractive. However, far too often girls here post photos of themselves at different weights only to hear you looked great then, but now that youve gained xxlbs you are amazing! 

Personally, I find that disgusting. Not because being fatter make her more disgusting, but reinforcing that someone is better because of a change in their physical appearance is not okay. Furthermore, my weight fluctuates so I know that when a woman gains a large amount of weight in a short amount of time it is not a sign of health either emotionally or physically. I have to step away from this board at times because the health problems associated with binge eating and obesity are ignored or entirely discredited. Healthy is not necessarily a concrete term, but to me some of the standards of health advocated on this board are incredibly concerning. I would never want the absence of diabetes or sleep apnea to be a personal pillar of health. Even when I was overweight my blood pressure was normal but I couldnt easily take the stairs, or run, and I was exhausted at the end of every day. 

I hope this makes sense.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 9, 2008)

> However, far too often girls here post photos of themselves at different weights only to hear you looked great then, but now that youve gained xxlbs you are amazing!
> 
> Personally, I find that disgusting. Not because being fatter make her more disgusting, but reinforcing that someone is better because of a change in their physical appearance is not okay.



I think there is some nuance here that has to be addressed. Dimensions is an adult board. You must be a legal adult to register. It covers a broad range of size issues ranging from complaints over being asked to pay for a second airline seat, posting about what clothing stores carry high quality products for fat people, and what BBW/SSBBW dating sites are good. But for some posters, this board is an outlet for their sexuality. Not just what they find attractive, but what fulfills their sexuality. For some people, that's fat and/or weight gain. If you check the bottom of the front page, the most viewed thread on here is one which has photos that show weight gain over time. Many people find this erotic. So when somebody is told 'your weight gain is hot' they are not being told they are a better person, but rather whomever is saying that is essentially expressing his/her unique sexuality at finding the weight gaing to be erotically pleasing.



> Furthermore, my weight fluctuates so I know that when a woman gains a large amount of weight in a short amount of time it is not a sign of health either emotionally or physically.



Some people's sexuality is based in weight gain, with themselves and/or others. For whatever reason, it's either the only thing that allows them to become really excited or it's their primary sexuality. It just is, it's how their heads are. It does not make them emotionally unhealthy. As far as the physical risks, one of the women gainers on this board spoke about this on a much watched youtube video in which she said essentially that for her, weight gain is something that pleases her so much, she accepts the pleasure it brings her as a calculate, acceptable health risk.



> I have to step away from this board at times because the health problems associated with binge eating and obesity are ignored or entirely discredited. Healthy is not necessarily a concrete term, but to me some of the standards of health advocated on this board are incredibly concerning. I would never want the absence of diabetes or sleep apnea to be a personal pillar of health. Even when I was overweight my blood pressure was normal but I couldnt easily take the stairs, or run, and I was exhausted at the end of every day.



This i have to agree with. Of course one can be fat and healthy. However, what tends to frustrate me is when the "fat and healthy" argument is presented in a junk science model. By junk science I mean you start out with the answer you want and then adjust the facts. In other words, you can always choose some measures such as "not having diabetes" or "normal blood pressure" that will "prove" your argument.


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## fffff (Mar 9, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Some people's sexuality is based in weight gain, with themselves and/or others. For whatever reason, it's either the only thing that allows them to become really excited or it's their primary sexuality. It just is, it's how their heads are. It does not make them emotionally unhealthy. As far as the physical risks, one of the women gainers on this board spoke about this on a much watched youtube video in which she said essentially that for her, weight gain is something that pleases her so much, she accepts the pleasure it brings her as a calculate, acceptable health risk.



Everyone has some sort of sexual fetish that could be "weird", it's a natural outlet of being an adult. And there's nothing with having fantasies about weight gain and leaving it as just that, a fantasy. But what just doesn't sit right with me is the reality that both anorexia and massive weight gain result in a significantly reduced standard of living and an early death. And when someone is willing to dedicate their life and well-being to fulfilling a sexual fantasy I will never believe that they are psychologically stable. 

The internet can have an extremely isolating effect. When you have a preoccupation with something like weight gain the internet is really your only outlet for that. It is so easy to lose yourself in the wealth of information available on the internet involving weight; photos, stories, forums, in an extreme case one could spend the vast majority of their time focused on this topic and only communicating with others who share the same obsession. 

I just cannot accept that anyone who is willing to forgo mobility and heath to get really fat is emotionally stable and in touch with reality. It gives them so much pleasure that they'll never want to go for a long walk? Ride a bike, go to the movies, a concert, travel, not have to worry about whether something is too far or whether they'll be able to fit into a seat? There's a lot of great things to do in the world and obesity severely limits them.


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## fffff (Mar 10, 2008)

I made a reply but I guess the moderators deemed it unpostable.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 11, 2008)

fffff said:


> I made a reply but I guess the moderators deemed it unpostable.



Did you scroll back and read the whole page? You have a long reply posted above this one.


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## fffff (Mar 11, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Did you scroll back and read the whole page? You have a long reply posted above this one.



Yeah it's there it just took a while.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 11, 2008)

> But what just doesn't sit right with me is the reality that both anorexia and massive weight gain result in a significantly reduced standard of living and an early death.



The majority of anorexics do not die, and neither do the majority of gainers. But beyond that, erotic weight gain is a sexual fetish and anorexia is an emotional disorder. You can't make this analogy. Any health affects of anorexia are the same as ill health effects from any other disease.

I don't know of the X number of people who are sexually aroused by weight gain, what percentage participate in it beyond a fantasy level. And of the ones who do, I don't know what percentage participate in adding so much body weight that their health is affected. My guess is you are talking about a very small number of people.



> And when someone is willing to dedicate their life and well-being to fulfilling a sexual fantasy I will never believe that they are psychologically stable.



It's not about a willingness. Sex is a basic human drive. Most humans have sexual urges that they figure out how to satisfy, even if it's just done mentally or via internet porn.



> The internet can have an extremely isolating effect. When you have a preoccupation with something like weight gain the internet is really your only outlet for that. It is so easy to lose yourself in the wealth of information available on the internet involving weight; photos, stories, forums, in an extreme case one could spend the vast majority of their time focused on this topic and only communicating with others who share the same obsession.



True to some degree, but it's also possible to spend your whole life sitting on the internet looking at Playboy.com or other traditional pornography. It's possible to spend all your time on your fantasy football league, too, if you were so inclined. Some people spend hours reading blogs devoted to an infinite array of topics.

If you are into any sort of unusual sexual practice or fetish, it's true that you will probably feel weird communicating it to somebody who might not share it. Many people with fetishes of any sort will say they've:

1. Always had them.
2. Probably can't change them.
3. Are frustrated at the lack of opportunity to share them in real life.
4. In _some_ cases are cognizant of the fact that their lives/sex lives would be easier without them.


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