# Fat chicks: a magnet for creeps?



## Alzison (Jun 20, 2011)

So something kind of upsetting happened to me today and I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience. I had a nice morning, brunch with friends, then went to read outside for a few hours. Eventually, I decided to take a walk and stopped at a nearby used bookstore. The place was very small, and I quickly moved to the back of the store to peruse the fiction section. Immediately after turning the corner of the far bookcase, I was face-to-face with a guy I recognized from the park where I had been reading. I was listening to music and started walking away, but he waved at me to take off my headphones. My thought was that I just wanted to get rid of the guy and do so as quickly and calmly as possible, so I stopped and asked him what he wanted. "I don't want to say this too loud, but I wanted to tell you what I was thinking. I was thinking of this story. I follow you here from the park. And then we have an intimate conversation and- do you get what I'm saying?" I said "well, you just said you followed me here, so I get that that is pretty damn creepy." "No, I'm just sharing this thought I had. It's like... it's like foreplay... I follow you here, we have this intimate conversation and then... 'dot dot dot.' Do you get what I'm saying?" "Yeah," I said, "and it's not gonna happen." He told me he had to "take a leak" and soon left the store and I went up to the front desk to tell them about the dude and warn them not to let him back inside. Pretty much immediately, I took off and got as far away from that neighborhood as I could. OK, I walked a few blocks to a hat store and tried to find refuge in the floppy bonnets. Still!

The following me made me feel pretty violated, not to mention the fact that he admitted it to me as some sort of seduction technique. And it got me thinking. This was a particularly disturbing and upsetting scenario but, truthfully, not a rare one. I've talked to thin friends who are amazed at the volume completely creepy things people say and do to me. It's more than just staring or winking, I've been followed off the train multiple times, passed notes, men have grabbed me, asked me to take them home with me (a serious request), tried to kiss me or ask me to show them my breasts, they call after me and get verbally abusive if I just walk away or try to ignore it. But really, what do these guys think they are going to accomplish by behaving like this? Do you think that coming after me in a subway station and following me up the stairs will lead to me running back to your place to sleep with you? I don't think I get hit on more than my skinny friends or because I'm some exceptionally hot piece, but this latest experience has me wondering if men feel like, because I'm fat, I'm more likely to be receptive to these completely inappropriate and disgusting advances. It's insulting on so many levels and, frankly, couldn't be further from the truth. 

A friend of mine, formerly a size 16 (and now much smaller), also made a comment to me about how "fat girls are much sluttier because they are so insecure" and how so many of her fat friends slept around "to feel better about themselves." This was said as if coming from a good place and to explain the way men react to women like me. So clearly, the misconception goes beyond just the creepy men themselves. 

Thoughts?


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## Fat Brian (Jun 20, 2011)

We're told from the time we're young that fat people are ugly and weak and somehow less than thin people. Then as those kids get older some find themselves attracted to fat people and they have a hard time reconciling their opposing ideas of fat people. Add to that the varying levels of sexual and relationship dysfunction in the male population and you get a set of creepy, repressed guys who sneak around trying to have sex with fat women. They come up with terms like "whaling" and "hogging" to described what they seek out , names that display the same derision they were taught in childhood. This group of men has the same attitude toward women as those who objectify women based on hair color, breast size, or any other outward characteristic, they just do it based on fat.

The whole "slutty fat girl" thing is a myth. Women have been becoming sexually active in greater percentages and have also been getting fatter as a population. Therefore there are more sexually active fat women because more women are fat and more women are having sex.


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## crayola box (Jun 20, 2011)

No thoughts on whether this happens more to fat vs. thin women but I've definitely had it happen, being grabbed, pulled in for a kiss randomly in a park, and so on. I have a friend who takes no prisoners in this kind of situation and swiftly knees em where it hurts!

As for slutty women, I hate the term, and can't help but put my feminist hat on and cringe when I hear it. Not targeting the OP specifically but in general- I hate that adults still make moral judgments and use degrading juvenile language to describe female sexual behavior. And generalizing that fat women are more sexually active because they are insecure...like anything else some are some aren't. I think your friend underestimates how insecure even the thin/pretty/blonde/tan/fill-in-the blank can be, but agree she is not alone in this mindset.

I think at the end of the day every segment of the population has its creeps.


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## LovelyLiz (Jun 20, 2011)

First off, I'm really sorry this happened to you, Alzison. Really glad you were able to get away from him. 

And yeah, I have had some similar experiences over the years. But while I do think guys also target thin women to be super forward and lewd toward, I feel like there is something to your theory that it happens more often to us fat women. The reality is (even though I think this reality is changing rapidly) fat women are widely considered less desirable sexual or romantic partners by much of society. And those guys, clear lacking in social skills and "suave-ness", are also probably considered less desirable partners (or they have at least gathered as much from their track record). So I do think there is an element of pragmatism, conscious or unconscious, that they are going for someone who is at least more likely (in their view) to say yes to their inappropriate advances.

I'm not sure, as FatBrian implies, that these guys are all necessarily FAs. I think they might just be horny and attempting to be pragmatic about how to most likely get sex (of course with some FAs in the mix, too). 

And yeah...that whole "insecurity" line of thought is widespread. The get-the-limping-gazelle train of thought. But in my experience, most women can be pretty insecure about our bodies (thank you f**ked up society), and my thin friends are just as likely to have sex with a guy due to that insecurity. But maybe it won't be with such a creepy guy, and just a mean one instead? I dunno...


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## Pitch (Jun 20, 2011)

If I look at my ex boyfriends (and maybe the girlfriends, too)? This is so true. SO true. Creepers, the lot of them.

However, I dont get any male attention in public save for the occasional staring-guy driving down the street in his car while I'm walking. It's terrible you get this brand of street harassment, by the way.

But. Apparently it gets _worse_ if you lose weight. I think this brand of creeper is kind of equal opportunity when it comes to size. Though, fat is always associated with being unfeminine (lolwat) and a mark of being lascivious and greedy. So ...I guess I'm going back and forth on this.

Hmm.

Oh yeah, someone mentioned "whaling". There is nothing in the world that pisses me off more than this whole phenomenon. Apparently its big in the military. Whats funny is, I tore into a friend recently we call "Hobo" who is a Marine. He's been begging me to come visit me, hang out, maybe have sexy time or whatever. And then when he gets with his boys on one occasion they start joking about "Fat girls giving the best head because they're hungry", "whaling", etc etc. I reamed him to the best of my ability and he gave the excuse "Its just guys being guys baaawh!"

Like...I'm supposed to be okay with that? Joke or not, he's still my friend but there is no way I'm letting him come around and hang out when he's done something like that. And yet...part of his reassurance was that he really desired me, and all that crap.

I think that puts a little perspective to it. Fat women are supposed to be ugly and undesirable and I think they hide the fact that they DO desire us behind this facade of male homosociality.


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## hiddenexposure (Jun 20, 2011)

Alzison it's interesting to read this because I have been wondering about this myself. It seems that no matter what most of the male attention that I do get are from creepy guys in scenarios that are similar. More than the fear and anexiety that comes from these encounters it really makes me question myself from time to time. I know it's more them than it is me, but after a while you begin to wonder what sort of vibe you are giving off when the majority of your friends have legitimate suitors and I get stuck with "leisure suit larry"


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## PunkyGurly74 (Jun 20, 2011)

I think it is a combination of things, but, a lot what McBeth said..

I think we are viewed as the limping gazelle. And btw, sorry, that happened. Next time....explain you understand and knee him in the balls hehehehe

However, publicly, no...I never have men approach me in a positive manner to be completely honest. I get a lot of aggression and anger. I was with a nice group of people at this bar on Chesapeake Bay, much smaller than I am now..like 5'10" and 300 and I feel this sharp pain and I dropped. I had been violently elbowed me in the kidneys on purpose - as it turns out 2 large men saw the GUY who did it..and threw him out and down the stairs (we were on the second floor). Didn't know the guy - I'm like 700 miles from home. ..I had done nothing to provoke it..other than being fat.

Another time was at a Cher concert, this guy had been getting up and leaving the row the entire concert and each time he was more drunk and agitated. He came back ( I was on the end ) the last time and yanked on my arm very hard and started screaming at me - in my face (my friends and I were separated due to last minute ticket buying) - calling me names - two lovely gay men from across the aisle approached me quickly pulled me into their aisle and away from him and called security. I was in New Orleans - this man did not know me, I had said nothing to him.


So, not sexual, but, I sure do get the aggressive ones...I think it my height and size - it seems to be threatening somehow??? I dunno. But, if I had been 145lbs I think the stories would be vastly different. As these things have never happened to my skinny/average friends???


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## BlueBurning (Jun 20, 2011)

From the stories my fiancée has shared with me about incidence before we were together and during our relationship and from what I've seen in person to others, fat chicks certainly seem to attract more creeps than their counterparts. There are certainly some creeps who are female but males tend to dominate the category. As a result females tend to be the target of the majority of creeps and toss in being fat and you get a toxic mix. Which is why when teaching gender studies not only should there be a focus on the effects of being a visible minority and female but also the effects of being overweight and female which is something I've found to be lacking completely.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jun 20, 2011)

Any time you're talking about human behavior, it's unlikely you'll find a single cause: _everyone_ has made valuable -- and true -- points as far as I can see. Let me toss a couple more ideas into the mix:

1. In spite of feminism, a lot more little girls than little boys are encouraged to be polite and thoughtful: little boys are given much more latitude for acting out, because "boys will be boys." Hence, I suspect a lot of boys grow up without learning where the boundaries are or how to behave in polite society.

2. Punky Girly 74 mentioned something that has made a deep impression on me: a lot of men out there are terrified of women. After all, we have cybersex and 900 numbers so that men can have some sort of sexual relations with women _without the risk of being in the same room with them_. Large women, whether tall or fat or both, are even scarier because the man is unsure of his ability to dominate them physically. I suspect some physical attacks are the result of a timid man attempting a pre-emptive strike on a woman he perceives as a threat.


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## Fat Brian (Jun 20, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> I'm not sure, as FatBrian implies, that these guys are all necessarily FAs. I think they might just be horny and attempting to be pragmatic about how to most likely get sex (of course with some FAs in the mix, too)



Yeah, it was late and I didn't express myself as clearly as I though I had. A large portion of the creepers are looking for an "easy mark" so to speak. Their behavior, while indefensible, is more understandable since they don't place any value on fat women so why would they act in a respectful way ? What really saddens me is the amount of creepy FAs who should value the women they are approaching but all too often seem to use the same tactics. The number of conflicted, closeted FAs on here is a testimony to how poorly they can act.


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## Tau (Jun 20, 2011)

Perhaps its where I'm from but honestly if you're a woman, no matter your size, the creepers will come at you in South Africa. Most of my friends are thin and we have all been hit on by utterly repulsive people, stalked, harrassed etc. I'm really sorry that happened to you. I get so, so angry at men who behave in such shitty ways. Here we have men who believe they have right to grab you too - so they just reach out as you're walking by and grab. I lose it with that brand of creeper - got that sh*t a lot when I was younger, now they just speak but most keep their distance.


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## Jes (Jun 20, 2011)

I think I agree with McBeth's post... the reason I say 'I think' is because I do still wonder what a person's unique personality adds to the mix. If you are, say, a Midwesterner on the East Coast, you might unconsciously smile at people you meet on the street, which isn't really an East Coastie thing to do. As a result, though you might not realize it, you might be calling people to you by making eye contact and seeming approachable. 

I have had the strangest public interactions with men with which, when I describe them to other women, my female friends just can't identify. There was a period of a few years where a huge number of men who saw me on the street thought I was a prostitute.

Let me repeat: prostitute.

For the life of me, I can't explain it. And strangely enough, it went as quickly as it came. 

I assumed most women (at least those of us in the city) had similar experiences, but I get nothing but blank stares from thinner women when I bring it up.


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## superodalisque (Jun 20, 2011)

sorry you had to deal with this creepy situation. i do think it has to do with being fat but maybe not for the reason most people think. their are so many sexually pent up men out there who have wanted us for so long and never had the guts to be very public about it. i think after so much time squelching your true desires something happens to you. i'm not talking about what people might call FAs. i'm talking about men in general. i have personally met very few men who have never or will never find something very physically appealing about fat women. think about it. fat women just have even bigger feminine parts than average sized women. so this uber femme presentation we give off, even when we don't try to, must be very attractive to a lot of men. 

i feel its always been a fight between hedonism and puritanism. fat women are the hedonistic part of life. we appear to eat exactly what we want and our body parts, their size and their movements speak very boldly of sexual pleasure that we might participate in. there isn't much that's demure about us and i think that is much more attractive to many more men than the women who look like and preach a version of self denial.

i think the way that society and diet culture is working for and enforcing the puritanical viewpoints of self denial on men is causing some kind of mental and emotional problems in them that they tend to act on when they can't contain the conflict anymore. i think its all of the "what i really want" versus "what i'm supposed to have" tension. he was describing his fantasy to you and you were it.

short answer is i do think this happens to fat women more because fat women are kept away from men by societal prejudice. the same kind of thing used to happen to me as a young black woman growing up in Alabama just after segregation. there were sooo many men walking around feeling tortured to death by societal restraints that it made them creepy, crazy and yes unsafe.

i think the "i'll do it with a fatty cause she's easy" thing is a cop out. those guys know better. i've had this happen to me with people who know for sure i'm not easy at all. its like they just can't hold it in anymore.


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## Surlysomething (Jun 20, 2011)

I think most women have had problems with creepy creepsters.

I've had them as a large woman (flashers/guys jerking off) and as a thinner, young woman (old men hitting on me, guys offering booze for sex at bus stops). These 'men' are losers and will approach any available female. I met a senior citizen who got hit on right before the same creepy loser hit on me. So...

I will say that older mediterranean men particularly like the big girls and don't seem to have a problem ogling. It's creepy but kind of funny. 


Creepsters, they're everywhere.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 20, 2011)

Surlysomething said:


> I think most women have had problems with creepy creepsters.
> 
> I've had them as a large woman (flashers/guys jerking off) and as a thinner, young woman (old men hitting on me, guys offering booze for sex at bus stops). These 'men' are losers and will approach any available female. I met a senior citizen who got hit on right before the same creepy loser hit on me. So...
> 
> ...


 
The creeps hitting on me at the bus stop was an almost daily occurence for me when I was younger, and relied on public transportation. Problem solved when I bought my first car. 

I was slightly plump, at most, when I'd be provided with the very flattering and not-at-all insulting opportunity for some sex in exchange for a sip from that paper bag (or, for that matter, nothing at all but the opportunity to be drunkenly pawed on until creepy got his rocks off or passed out, whichever 'came' first).

I think it's a combination of many factors -- how approachable you seem, how timid, if you hang where the mass transit nutjobs do, etc. If you're identifiably female, you've got a creepy creepster story to tell.


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## LovelyLiz (Jun 20, 2011)

I amend my earlier post to add that it's definitely not *just* about being fat in public - as several others like Jes and TraciJo have pointed out. There definitely are a lot of other factors in the mix, like whether you seem friendly/approachable, what kind of vibe you give off, etc. These kinds of intangibles play at least as big a role, in my opinion, as to whether someone gets creeped upon.


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## Alzison (Jun 20, 2011)

Ah, I don't think I meant to imply that only fat women get hit on by these weirdos, I was just wondering if there was any potential correlation between the volume of explicit requests and size. I do definitely agree that there are also many elements to the situation. I dated a guy once who told me that I received this sort of attention because of my own "energy" that I was putting out there/ because on some level I wanted that sort of attention. Which is both upsetting and frustrating (because clearly it was on a subconscious level and thus more difficult to switch the behavior). Either way, I do think there is some element of self-fulfilling prophecy to it; once you get hit on by creeps enough (and regularly), you start expecting every creep you see to approach you. And I think that makes it more likely that they do... or at least it seems like they do. 

Brian also makes some interesting points below, which I wanted to quote. I think it's intriguing to consider the way women can now be more open with their sexuality and the potential implications this has on the male response. There is a lot more I'm tempted to say in response to this, but I would turn this whole response into a lesser version of a Savage Love episode. 



Fat Brian said:


> We're told from the time we're young that fat people are ugly and weak and somehow less than thin people. Then as those kids get older some find themselves attracted to fat people and they have a hard time reconciling their opposing ideas of fat people. Add to that the varying levels of sexual and relationship dysfunction in the male population and you get a set of creepy, repressed guys who sneak around trying to have sex with fat women. They come up with terms like "whaling" and "hogging" to described what they seek out , names that display the same derision they were taught in childhood. This group of men has the same attitude toward women as those who objectify women based on hair color, breast size, or any other outward characteristic, they just do it based on fat.
> 
> The whole "slutty fat girl" thing is a myth. Women have been becoming sexually active in greater percentages and have also been getting fatter as a population. Therefore there are more sexually active fat women because more women are fat and more women are having sex.


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## Lamia (Jun 20, 2011)

My niece looks like barbie and she tells me about weird shit men do all the time. She gets a lot of creeps, but she also gets hot guys hitting on her too. I am inclinded to think that all women get their fair share of creeps, but that more attractive women *based on societal standards of beauty* also get more than their fair share of suitable men. Where fat women seem to ONLY get creepy guys or it seems that way, or guys they just aren't interested in.


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## superodalisque (Jun 20, 2011)

Lamia said:


> My niece looks like barbie and she tells me about weird shit men do all the time. She gets a lot of creeps, but she also gets hot guys hitting on her too. I am inclinded to think that all women get their fair share of creeps, but that more attractive women *based on societal standards of beauty* also get more than their fair share of suitable men. Where fat women seem to ONLY get creepy guys or it seems that way, or guys they just aren't interested in.



i think it might just only seem that way. i have a lot of very handsome guy friends who are attracted to fat women but when they hit on them they get ignored because she tends to think its some kind of joke. IMO the only difference between the choices of fat women and average sized women are the expectations. they always ask me to hang out with them as fat girl bait so that other women my size can see that's what they actually like.


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## lozonloz (Jun 20, 2011)

Last time I went out, some guy wrote "Can i cum on your glasses?!" on his iphone and animated it. Then he flashed it in my direction every 5 seconds. 

Then he came over to ask in person.

I said I didnt want to make a mess on the dance floor and escaped, but yeah... creep attraction... is a problem.


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## EMH1701 (Jun 20, 2011)

I have had similar experiences over the years as well. 

One that takes the cake happened when I was an exchange student in Germany. This Middle Eastern foreign man who was middle-aged got off the bus I was on (coming back from high school) and followed me for a while. He attempted to converse with me in German, and while his German was worse than mine, it was still obvious that he was trying to hit on me. I finally had to fake him out by holding up my hand (which I had a cheap ring on) and said in German, "I'm sorry but my husband is waiting for me," and took off running. I was 17 at the time!

I seriously cannot believe the amount of creeps out there.


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## randomjenerator (Jun 20, 2011)

I must give off some kind of repellent vibe, cause this shit has never really happened to me. Frankly, I'm ok with that.


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## mithrandirjn (Jun 20, 2011)

Yeah, I think "creepers" as we've defined them in this thread will basically hit on any woman, regardless of appearance, in extremely inappropriate ways. I'm not sure they're swayed one way or the other, for the most part, by weight.

What I do believe bigger women have to deal with are guys who, as mentioned earlier, might be FA's, not want to admit it outright, and the conflict between their desires and their fear of being shunned for them causes a more awkward, less socially comfortable personality. This happens because they simply haven't had the chance to "learn by doing" when it comes to talking to women in an appropriate manner, as they've been in conflict with what kind of woman they even find attractive for so long.

A bit of a generalization there, but I think there's truth to it. Again, though, out and out "creepers" don't tend to discriminate.


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## Yakatori (Jun 20, 2011)

Alzison said:


> "_So something kind of upsetting happened to me today..._"



Alzison, I'm sorry this happened to you. I hope for you not to dwell on it any longer than it takes to figure out what works for you to prevent it from happening; and so it won't needlessly inform your own innate ability to take a stranger at face-value or to receive what's unknown with an open mind.



Alzison said:


> "_...wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience. ..._"


I guess it depends on what you really mean. Have I ever been approached by a person somewhere on the range of bat-shit crazy to a borderline personality disorder with some sort of inane question/proposal or their own nonsensical idea of a reminder/personal suggestion/joke/cautionary tale a la Frankenstein on _Late Night with Conan O'Brien_? Sure, lots of times; enough that I could probably write a coffee-table book about those experiences; most of them when I was living near a busy section of a small city, when I used public transportation & the local public library a lot more frequently. Nowadays? Not so much. But it's not like I would be too freaked out to be revisiting any of that, because; if what you really mean is to ask is if I've, personally, ever felt physically threatened by the aggressive and inappropriate behavior, sexual or otherwise, of a seemingly randomly approaching stranger; I would have to admit that's never happened to me.

And I think you should at least consider that what most accounts for the disparity in our respective experiences has nothing to do with, either, where we live, or being fat or thin, or being pretty or not-quite-pretty-enough, or being "approachable" versus "tough," etc.. For my part: I've lived in different types of neighborhoods at different times in my life. I'm probably fatter than you, if not bigger all-round. I'm, relatively-speaking, good-looking. I'm also; I think; friendly, gentle, & kind to every single person I come across. (My mom actually says that I'm "as sweet as pie.") But, unlike you, I also happen to be a guy.

To see why this matters so much, try to imagine what would happen if this guy attempted the same (or even just something similarly offensive/abhorrent, if you want to adjust for differences in social attitudes about same-sex couplings) with other men. In a busy place like Manhattan, there's a certain percentage that would just flat-out ignore him; I mean, not even react so much as to remove the headphones in the first-place. Then, if fortunate-enough, a majority of people would react somewhere along the lines of how I would: a smile, a laugh, maybe a gentle admonishment, and moving-on. But, honestly, how many guys could any other guy reasonably expect to try that with, without coming across that one guy that he really doesn't want to come across? 10? 20? 50? As such, the likely/potential consequences/risks of the unfavorable responses are a big part of what's informing this behavior.

It's not to say women aren't capable of horrific violence, even toward complete strangers; obviously they are. Or that men, in general, are at-all violent. It's just that the difference in the degree to which of an extreme outlier presents a practical danger, perhaps a near-mortal threat, is significant. And so when it comes to men; mature, adult men that are unknown to them; people in general are generally a little more careful in dealing with them. In the right frame of mind, in the wrong frame of mind, crazy, sane, drunk, sober, lawful, criminal; if you're meant to live-long, if you've evolved in in response to the most immediate & apparent dangers; you know-well to be a little more restrained, if not totally polite, with a man you don't know so well. Friends, enemies, relatives; guys you know, you can joke with, whatever. Face to face, don't joke with a guy you don't know. I know I wouldn't.

But since so many are pressing the "fat-girls attract more/better creepos" angle, I will try my best to apply my own observation/insight to it. Of the women I know who most fit the profile of what most of us mean by "traditionally attractive," I would say what most prevents them from effectively attracting the obvious-creeps has a lot to do with what I've mentioned above and what insulates them from mostly decent guys if not people-in general: competition from other guys. "Traditionally good-looking" women tend to be surrounded by "traditionally good-looking" men, if not men in general. They tend either to always have a boyfriend who can deflect a creep with glance, and/or; a lengthy cue of potential suitors/hangers-on who can do the same or both. They are also, it seems to me, more likely to have a dad and/or male sibling(s) that are predisposed to the task of "regulating" the onslaught of said suitors, let-alone lowly creeps. Sometimes, they even have gay-male friends who look-out for them, as well. And these are probably of the "traditionally good-looking" variety, which often means they have something of a nose for quasi-predatory, bullying/aggressive behavior and won't tolerate it. If they can fight, they will. And whether they can or can't, they won't hesitate to call the police on someone. Perhaps these are not the most politically correct observations around here; but, nonetheless, the way I see it. 

But, you know, it's not like we're living in the Pre-Historic era, right? If you had a problem with your/a car and knew nothing about it and had no mechanically-inclined friends; you wouldn't lament being single over that, right? You'd take it to a reputable mechanic. So, if you're dealing with a creep, what's really to stop you from calling the police? You felt threatened/violated, right? You saw, clearly, that this person doesn't abide normal personal boundaries, right? At what point would you've thought about involving the authorities? (I'm not arguing that you, necessarily, should've in this particular case; but, more-so, trying to speak to why, maybe, it seems like some of us are treated differently than our thin counter-parts) 

Suppose it wasn't you that was approached, but a thin/prettier colleague?Would you be quicker to intervene or be more assertive on their behalf?What would want for them to do in your absence? Or what if you were with an elderly companion or someone who's disabled in some way and some stranger (a man) was behaving toward them in manner that you deemed equally as "marginally-aggressive" as we might want to term it? Where's the line you wouldn't let them cross before involving police? (Not directed just at you, per se; but some basic things I think could be helpful for a person to consider for themselves in advance of a situation such as this) To that end, what would you think of the idea of going online and storing the number of your local police precinct in your phone and, perhaps, that of the neighborhoods where you work/go to school/recreate etc..just to have those numbers on hand in the event that you witness/experience something that's a little questionable. 

Obviously, in an emergency, you would dial 911. But these numbers are good to have on hand for any of a number of situations you might unexpectedly come across that don't quite merit a call for "emergency-assistance" (a child appears to be truant, an animal's running around unleashed, someone's double-parked blocking your car/driveway, you see an open fire hydrant, you want to complain about noise, you hear/see a domestic/street disturbance and don't want to get directly-involved, etc..) Too often, I think, we see these little situations that might merit some attention but could resolve themselves. And because we don't consider them emergencies and don't want to take the time/effort to locate a number on the spot, we just ignore them. And there and then it has the potential to become someone else's problem, if not a bigger one.


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## olwen (Jun 20, 2011)

Lamia said:


> My niece looks like barbie and she tells me about weird shit men do all the time. She gets a lot of creeps, but she also gets hot guys hitting on her too. I am inclinded to think that all women get their fair share of creeps, but that more attractive women *based on societal standards of beauty* also get more than their fair share of suitable men. Where fat women seem to ONLY get creepy guys or it seems that way, or guys they just aren't interested in.



I second this. Seems like it's been my experience too anyway. It's always the gross guys who hit on me in public and in gross ways. I have also had guys cuss me out really loudly for saying no. Once four guys surrounded me saying really gross things. It scared the shit out of me and I managed to run away before they could do... Who knows what they would have done. And it was a crowded brightly lit area, not some lonely dark street.

There is an awesome site called hollaback where women post stories about men who have been creepy, ect. We should all post our stories and be sure to say we are fat so that other women who read the stories will know this kind of thing can happen to all women no matter what you look like.


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## olwen (Jun 20, 2011)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Any time you're talking about human behavior, it's unlikely you'll find a single cause: _everyone_ has made valuable -- and true -- points as far as I can see. Let me toss a couple more ideas into the mix:
> 
> 1. In spite of feminism, a lot more little girls than little boys are encouraged to be polite and thoughtful: little boys are given much more latitude for acting out, because "boys will be boys." Hence, I suspect a lot of boys grow up without learning where the boundaries are or how to behave in polite society.
> 
> 2. Punky Girly 74 mentioned something that has made a deep impression on me: a lot of men out there are terrified of women. After all, we have cybersex and 900 numbers so that men can have some sort of sexual relations with women _without the risk of being in the same room with them_. Large women, whether tall or fat or both, are even scarier because the man is unsure of his ability to dominate them physically. I suspect some physical attacks are the result of a timid man attempting a pre-emptive strike on a woman he perceives as a threat.



I agree with a lot of this, But what I don't get is why a man should see a tall fat woman as a threat. I suppose it makes sense if the man doesn't really see "femininity" in a fat woman, just a body that's bigger than his. This makes feel that there are a lot of men who have a tenuous hold on their masculinity. Just last week I was in a bar. A skinny chick nearby decided to start arm wrestling all the other skinny chicks. When it was my turn I beat her and a few other women besides. Next I arm wrestled a dude and lost. The next guy didn't want to arm wrestle me, but he did arm wrestle all the other women. It kind of pissed me off. My arm was tired by then and he likely would have won. Clearly he saw a woman, but he also saw me as a threat. I'm just amazed sometimes at how men equate size with power rather than ability. Just because someone is big doesn't mean they'd be able to fight well. But by contrast these creepy guys who think they can get away with all kinds of disgusting shit probably see weakness in fat women. So what makes those guys different from the guys who see power/threat in fat women?


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## Jello404 (Jun 21, 2011)

I feel the exact opposite to be honest.I cant tell you how many times my skinyn friends have been approached by some creep and if they refuse them they get the standard "OH YOU THINK YOUR TOO GOOD FOR ME?" sometimes its violent.And since theyre smaller these men think they can toss them around like rag dolls if they're angry enough.Its scary...sometimes Im thankful to be larger because fat kids arent easy to kidnap lol But seriously..I find that men dont corner you or go after you because they know your big and they dont want to put up a fight. BUT sometimes if they are in a larger group they feel safe so they know they can target a fat person and get away with it.Its 50/50...luckily I havent been asulted like that.But they do think we're easy so they assume they can just waltz on up to us and anything they as for,we'll willingly give to them.


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## Yakatori (Jun 21, 2011)

olwen said:


> "_*...in gross ways...guys cuss me out really loudly for saying no. Once four guys surrounded me saying really gross things. It scared the shit out of me and I managed to run away before they could do... Who knows what they would have done. And it was a crowded brightly lit area....We should all post our stories*_"


If you'd be willing to post your story on a public forum; why wouldn't you just as easily tell your story directly to the police? Just curious...



olwen said:


> _...what I don't get is why a man should see a tall fat woman as a threat. I suppose it makes sense if...This makes feel that there are a lot of men who have a tenuous hold on their masculinity...he also saw me as a threat...I'm just amazed sometimes at how men equate size with power rather than ability. Just because someone is big doesn't mean they'd be able to fight well...*these creepy guys who think they can get away with all kinds of disgusting shit probably see weakness* in fat women. So what makes those guys different from the guys who see power/threat in fat women?_


I'm as guilty as anyone when it comes to over-thinking these things. But it doesn't have to be either/or. Someone could very well be behaving aggressively toward you on the basis of feeling an underlying/subconcious fear while, equally so, emboldened by virtue of the absence of an immediate threat, right? Why not just hold them accountable either way? Why not just threaten to call police, just to see how they'd respond?


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## olwen (Jun 21, 2011)

Yakatori said:


> If you'd be willing to post your story on a public forum; why wouldn't you just as easily tell your story directly to the police? Just curious...
> 
> I'm as guilty as anyone when it comes to over-thinking these things. But it doesn't have to be either/or. Someone could very well be behaving aggressively toward you on the basis of feeling an underlying/subconcious fear while, equally so, emboldened by virtue of the absence of an immediate threat, right? Why not just hold them accountable either way? Why not just threaten to call police, just to see how they'd respond?



I didn't go to the police because a)it was nighttime and I didn't get a good look at all their faces b)I ran across the street as fast as my fat legs would carry me and got on the bus that had thankfully just pulled up to the bus stop. c)what would I report? "Hey officer four random drunk white guys with accents just tried to assault me, but I got away, and I didn't really get a good look at them. I don't think you will be able to catch them, but I thought I'd let you know all the same." 

And sorry, and I'm not trying to be flip here but the rest your post is just too unnecessarily verbose and I don't quite understand what you are asking. Are you saying that a woman should file a report to the police any time she thinks a guy is thinking about being aggressive towards her or that she should say "stop or I'll call the cops" if he actually displays aggression? I do think shouting something, anything back at the guy might make him stop. Or even better, to take out a phone and snap a picture or a video and threaten to put it on the internet, like that one woman did to the guy who flashed her on the 6 train a few months ago.


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## LillyBBBW (Jun 21, 2011)

I'm on the fence about this. I suppose it depends on the circumstance. My experience is that in any given situation, the person who is going to be attracted to me is always going to be the weirdest person present. The one that one of my friends will say, "Oh my GAD, look at that dude over there!! What the hell is that on his head??" Dimes to donuts if he comes near to us he'll be all up in MY face. High probability there. It really adds to the addage everyone makes: only weirdos and freaks are attracted to fat women.

Even those who weren't carrying live chickens in their manpurse... good old fashioned shyness is there to keep things real. If he says anything at all it will brobably be the most bass ackward thing that makes conversation fall silent in an instant. And everybody is looking at you to respond in some way and at this weight I can't flee. This further adds to the mystique that only weirdos like fat chicks. 

I do understand the need for people to be honest and upfront about themselves. I prefer that actually, I really like straight shooters who don't bullshit around. I just wish things didn't have to come falling out of the closet before I've even had a chance to open the door. After having a strange conversation with a man I met at a convention, my friends excitedly asked me what he said. I wanted to tell them some romantic thing, you know? "He said he likes thick thighs and hamburgers. What the fuck do you think he said, he's a fucking wierdo for crying out loud! *runs away*" And so it goes.

Surely fat chicks are not the only people who get stalked and harassed by weirdos. It's difficult for any woman to walk down the street without some nut saying, "Yo mami," and follwing them off the bus or some such things. The world is full of weirdos. I just wish the ratio weren't so concentrated.


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## LillyBBBW (Jun 21, 2011)

olwen said:


> I didn't go to the police because a)it was nighttime and I didn't get a good look at all their faces b)I ran across the street as fast as my fat legs would carry me and got on the bus that had thankfully just pulled up to the bus stop. c)what would I report? "Hey officer four random drunk white guys with accents just tried to assault me, but I got away, and I didn't really get a good look at them. I don't think you will be able to catch them, but I thought I'd let you know all the same."
> 
> And sorry, and I'm not trying to be flip here but the rest your post is just too unnecessarily verbose and I don't quite understand what you are asking. Are you saying that a woman should file a report to the police any time she thinks a guy is thinking about being aggressive towards her or that she should say "stop or I'll call the cops" if he actually displays aggression? I do think shouting something, anything back at the guy might make him stop. Or even better, to take out a phone and snap a picture or a video and threaten to put it on the internet, like that one woman did to the guy who flashed her on the 6 train a few months ago.



Not to mention such actions are insanely inconvenient. I'm not just drifting though life looking for cafe windows to look out of, I have to be someplace. I don't have time to double back to a police station to offer vague discriptions that they don't even want to take most of the time. If they do, they might want you to take them back to where it happened and show them where and what. Meanwhile across town your job is preparing your pink slip. Things like this make me so angry that unless I think the guy is a serial killer or something I am defiantly trying not to let this person steal anything from my life. If I have to be somewhere at 9 I'm going to be there at 9. I don't have time for this bullshit. If women called the police every time a group of thugs sexually harassed her the police would be extremely busy. I don't know what it is but there are high concentrations of men out there who objectify women this way. It's terrible in summer.


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## Jes (Jun 21, 2011)

Lamia said:


> My niece looks like barbie and she tells me about weird shit men do all the time. She gets a lot of creeps, but she also gets hot guys hitting on her too. I am inclinded to think that all women get their fair share of creeps, but that more attractive women *based on societal standards of beauty* also get more than their fair share of suitable men. Where fat women seem to ONLY get creepy guys or it seems that way, or guys they just aren't interested in.



Um...yeah. When you put it this way, I'd say it's exactly right for me and a lot of other fat women I know. Because there hasn't been any 'balance' (nicer, more normal guys chatting me up in a positive way), it makes the creeps stand out even more. 

Smart post.


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## Jes (Jun 21, 2011)

olwen said:


> There is an awesome site called hollaback where women post stories about men who have been creepy, ect. We should all post our stories and be sure to say we are fat so that other women who read the stories will know this kind of thing can happen to all women no matter what you look like.



Interesting thought. 

I just ran across this, when looking for that story from about 6 years ago when a woman posted a shot to flickr of some flasher's dick. A blog post (from another woman) about subway dick-flashers reads:

"I was single back then, and while never naïve my friends and I were slightly carless with our attire, showing more skin then maybe I would now and characteristically unconcerned with the what ifs that living in the city held for young attractive women."
...

'young attractive women.' Please. I wonder why she put it this way instead of just saying women? I'm guessing that it's her own take on herself at the time: young and attractive. They do say 'write what you know,' but I still do find it interesting.

***
And Yakatori, with no disrespect (and I don't claim to speak for other women here), one of ways of answering your repeated 'why don't you call the police when it's happening' question would be for you to live in a woman's body and socially-conditioned mindset for a month. I think you might well have a different take on things, then.


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## lollipops708 (Jun 21, 2011)

Well i have had my fair share of creepy men, but i must add, that the creepy men i deal with are hispanic or black men when it comes to sexual refrences or leering, but when it comes to the creepy men that are rude and agressive towards me are always white men. I dont know why but that the way it always been. does anybody relate to this?


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## LovelyLiz (Jun 21, 2011)

Today I went for a long walk on the sidewalk next to the beach. As I was walking, a guy was coming slowly on a bicycle from the other direction and gave me (what I'm sure we all know as) "cunnilingus face." This means that he got a lewd expression, looked me in the eyes, stuck out his tongue, and started flicking it up and down suggestively. Nice, right? I mean, I *was* wearing loose-fitting black exercise pants, a college t-shirt, and a baseball cap...so clearly I was out trolling for oral sex.  (Yes, I mean that tongue emoticon in the double entendre sort of way.)

But anyway, it made me think about this thread, and I thought about why that guy could have done that, and whether it was a fat thing or something else. And I realized, part of it has to do with the fact that when I walk I tend to make eye contact with people who pass me and I greet them. I'm hyper-aware of my environment most of the time, and especially aware of the people that are around me. If I didn't make eye contact, I wouldn't have even noticed whether he popped up with his cunnilingus face or not. So while maybe he's an FA and it was a fat thing, I do realize that a piece of it just has to do with how I interact with strangers, and whether I am projecting a certain level of engagement. And since I sort of did engage by making eye contact, he (apparently) felt free to be lewd. (This in NO WAY excuses his or any other person's creepy, heinous behavior - it's just an observation. There is never any excuse for sexual harassment, especially not simple, basic civility or friendliness.)


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## J34 (Jun 21, 2011)

I am a guy and although I can't speak from personal experience I can say that I have witnessed this since I have an older sister. She is very conventionally beautiful and while I was young my mother always made me tag along with her just to keep her safe (yea older sister with younger brother how awesome).Through the many teenage years that I was "playing chaperone" I would notice cars circling around were we would be walking, older men stalking her. This happened all the time and everywhere. Now looking back she has told me how much of a help I was to her in shielding her from those predators, and while I can say I didn't feel like I really did much, there is always strength in numbers. So I guess you can say that the nerdy little brother play cockblocker to creepy older men.

Although she has moved out, now that she is on her own she would go out with her friends to the city, even then she confided to me how aggressive and lewd some men would be. There are many factors that attract creeps from how you dress to the way you look, though one can't really pin it on just being a fat chick, even then creeps will still show up no matter what. Nowadays when she tends to go out it is usually with 3 or more friends and if its not ladies night, then a guy friend (I despise clubs), So just stay safe out there ladies. even if you don't have pepper spray just say you do, and if all else fails a kick in the groin helps


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## CurvaceousBBWLover (Jun 21, 2011)

I have also noticed that BBW events tend to attract some real weirdos. What do you all think?


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## penguin (Jun 21, 2011)

There are creepsters everywhere and they'll creep on whoever it is they find attractive, available or just there. You'll find them at any event you go to.


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## olwen (Jun 22, 2011)

Jes said:


> Interesting thought.
> 
> I just ran across this, when looking for that story from about 6 years ago when a woman posted a shot to flickr of some flasher's dick. A blog post (from another woman) about subway dick-flashers reads:
> 
> ...



Interesting in what way? I wouldn't say it means she doesn't think she's unattractive now, but I don't know what else she wrote there...maybe she thinks older women would just be classier in general and would attract different sort of men. I dunno, tho. Just guessing here.


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## Jes (Jun 22, 2011)

olwen said:


> Interesting in what way? I wouldn't say it means she doesn't think she's unattractive now



My point was: 'young and attractive' women are not the only women in the city who will get unwanted attention. That's the point our thread has been making. I suspect the author wrote what she did b/c as I said, 'write what you know' and she was writing about herself, but I still think it's short sighted. 

Sort of like that study that came out recently--fat teenaged girls apparently need Sex Ed too, b/c they are *gasp* also having sex! 

Yes, this was an actual study with actual 'surprising' results. How can we have this duality going on? The stereotype that all fat chicks are easy and giving handies in church for love, and the stereotype that fat chicks sit home alone and have never seen anyone's genitals. The 2 are mutually exclusive.

But what I didn't understand about that study--and yes, it's a bit off topic here, sorry--was: in what universe where Sex Ed. is offered does the teacher/counselor decide who takes the class? I mean, is there a roster at the beginning of the year with the Health Teacher saying: Mary, Wendy, come sit up front b/c you're pretty. Sally, you're chubby, so why don't you go to the library for the hour. ?? The study's findings were not revolutionary nor was the issue even a REAL issue. There is no mechanism in place (other than, perhaps, parental choice) for a school to segregate kids they think need to know about Sex Ed and kids they think DON'T need to know about Sex Ed. So why is this being studied??

Anyway, that's my tangent. But anyway, does that make my point clearer, Olwen? I just thought it was a weird turn of phrase that the author didn't need. Older and marginalized women are certainly not immune to unwanted male attention.


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## Elfcat (Jun 22, 2011)

To tell you the truth, I think conventionally handsome and confident-looking men get away with more and more missteps by them are forgotten. But I also know that I felt just that kind of conflict of having gone through the stage of "What is so unattractive about them? Why are they acting so afraid? What should I do?" And I know for myself that there have been times all this has caused a traffic jam in my brain that led to some turets-like blurting out of hastily-cobbled words or more rarely an impulsive kiss. Also from my own experience, waist-petting used to seem like a way of communicating that I see how you look, I'm not in denial of it, and I'm drawn to the way you look rather than this repulsion everyone claims all guys have for fat girls. I've certainly never used the words "foreplay" or made a "cunny face" or tried to roleplay a trip home, that really is pretty odd!


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## Lamia (Jun 22, 2011)

I would say this guy has spent WAY to much time online just because of the dot dot dot statement. 

I don't mean to laugh at the situation, but all week I've been going up to my boyfriend and saying....dot dot dot and you know....


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## Red (Jun 22, 2011)

It's a bit hard to comment really as I've never been thin so I can't compare but I can say YES, I do seem to attract the crazies. Most recently a guy in a club in my current home town came up to me, serious expression and just stared at me, dead-eyed. I ignored him because I thought he was on coke but he kept getting closer and closer, my friend clocked on and stepped in doing the barrier thing girls do to keep crazies at bay but she went off at one point and he took this as his opportunity to approach me and shout full on in my face for being moody and uninterested in him. I looked at him bewildered...then he punched me straight in the stomach. Not a dramatic 'knock me down' kind of punch but enough to scare the shit out of me. I remember being acutely aware that I couldn't imagine this sort of thing happening if I were thin and dainty. Not sure why really I thought this because reality is he could be like that with anyone. I still can't work out why he would do that, to a complete stranger, this guy was young, conventionally good looking and mad enough to attack a complete stranger for not being attracted to him but he did it in a sneaky enough way to make sure no-one else noticed, embarrassment? My conclusion is still that he was on coke, seems to be a lot of that at the moment which is sad as it makes it near on impossible to meet anyone decent on a night out. Turns insecure fuckwits into cocky, violent and insecure fuckwits, great.

I've had other incidents, ranging from funny to obscene and 9/10 time its focused on the way I look but what doesn't kill you etc etc. I think over time it's just made me very aware of my surroundings and scan the room for the crazies and make a mental note not to make eye contact or walk past them, self preservation I guess.


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## biglynch (Jun 22, 2011)

ok lets try keep this simple and short. Men like ladies (fat/thin/short/tall) Some men are horrid little losers. These horrid little gits ruin shit for all guys by creeping out all types women on a equal basis.
This sucks.

Yakatori, lay of the long winded garbage buddy. No offence but that was the most pointless load of toss i ever wasted my time on reading. I send my appologies in advance as i may sound a bit rude, but really do you read what you type.


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## paintsplotch (Jun 22, 2011)

hiddenexposure said:


> Alzison it's interesting to read this because I have been wondering about this myself. It seems that no matter what most of the male attention that I do get are from creepy guys in scenarios that are similar. More than the fear and anexiety that comes from these encounters it really makes me question myself from time to time. I know it's more them than it is me, but after a while you begin to wonder what sort of vibe you are giving off when the majority of your friends have legitimate suitors and I get stuck with "leisure suit larry"



OMG i totally get this....... i feel like guys only want to stick around long enough to see if i will have sex with them. i wait MONTHS.... as soon as we have sex..... POOFFFF!!! 

then litterally six months to a couple years later, every one of them comes back and says that they miss me and dont know why they left me. i dont get it. i think i went off topic.... maybe... sorry..... ack..... im frustrated and confused.


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## BBW MeganLynn44DD (Jun 22, 2011)

Some people are just creepy!My thin friends don't get this too often.Maybe they think we are easy?


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## Diana_Prince245 (Jun 22, 2011)

I've been thin, and I can remember by biological father getting really pissed at some guys who were following us around San Antonio trying to hit on me (I was 13, but I already wore a D cup. I probably looked 18 or 19). Skinny girls get creeps too, it's just that they seem get normal guys too. 

It's also possible that we're more guarded because we're bigger and get more shit in general, so we notice all the weirdos and skinny/normal sized women, who aren't as guarded because their experiences are different, don't.


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## olwen (Jun 22, 2011)

Jes said:


> My point was: 'young and attractive' women are not the only women in the city who will get unwanted attention. That's the point our thread has been making. I suspect the author wrote what she did b/c as I said, 'write what you know' and she was writing about herself, but I still think it's short sighted.
> 
> Sort of like that study that came out recently--fat teenaged girls apparently need Sex Ed too, b/c they are *gasp* also having sex!
> 
> ...



Yes, I see what you mean. But I see what the woman is saying too. Of course no man should take skimpy clothes as a pass to do whatever he wants to a woman, but he is going to look. I've struggled with this with my niece, who is thin and conventionally beautiful. She would be dressed way too provocatively for my comfort and I'd want her to change, but I didn't want to slut shame her to get her to change either. I ended up saying "Well, if you want dirty old men learing at you then go on." She'd end up changing - some of the time. On the times she didn't all I could say was "Stick with your friends at all times, and be careful." But I do see now what you mean. It's not just the "young and attractive" girls who only get the creepers.


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## Saoirse (Jun 22, 2011)

99% of the time, im the creeper


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## TexasTrouble (Jun 22, 2011)

Some of these comments have really got me thinking. A lot of these creepers are sick in some way (physically assaulting, threatening someone--hello), but I wonder if part of the idea is that they can treat a larger woman that way comes from the whole way of thinking that a "big" girl will be able to physically take care of herself. I'm thinking of all the cartoonish depictions of the big woman carrying around a rolling pin or frying pan to keep men in line (kind of like Oprah Winfrey's character in The Color Purple). I'd like to hope I'm wrong, but I could really imagine an authority figure (cop, owner/bouncer at a bar) being horrified if a smaller woman was punched in the stomach or pushed but with a bigger woman I could see them asking: You're big enough. Why didn't you fight back?


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## Alzison (Jun 22, 2011)

Lamia said:


> I would say this guy has spent WAY to much time online just because of the dot dot dot statement.
> 
> I don't mean to laugh at the situation, but all week I've been going up to my boyfriend and saying....dot dot dot and you know....



I know, right? "dot dot dot" is clearly the creepy man's "yadda yadda yadda" :happy:


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## cinnamongirlky (Jun 23, 2011)

Alzison said:


> So something kind of upsetting happened to me today and I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience. I had a nice morning, brunch with friends, then went to read outside for a few hours. Eventually, I decided to take a walk and stopped at a nearby used bookstore. The place was very small, and I quickly moved to the back of the store to peruse the fiction section. Immediately after turning the corner of the far bookcase, I was face-to-face with a guy I recognized from the park where I had been reading. I was listening to music and started walking away, but he waved at me to take off my headphones. My thought was that I just wanted to get rid of the guy and do so as quickly and calmly as possible, so I stopped and asked him what he wanted. "I don't want to say this too loud, but I wanted to tell you what I was thinking. I was thinking of this story. I follow you here from the park. And then we have an intimate conversation and- do you get what I'm saying?" I said "well, you just said you followed me here, so I get that that is pretty damn creepy." "No, I'm just sharing this thought I had. It's like... it's like foreplay... I follow you here, we have this intimate conversation and then... 'dot dot dot.' Do you get what I'm saying?" "Yeah," I said, "and it's not gonna happen." He told me he had to "take a leak" and soon left the store and I went up to the front desk to tell them about the dude and warn them not to let him back inside. Pretty much immediately, I took off and got as far away from that neighborhood as I could. OK, I walked a few blocks to a hat store and tried to find refuge in the floppy bonnets. Still!
> 
> The following me made me feel pretty violated, not to mention the fact that he admitted it to me as some sort of seduction technique. And it got me thinking. This was a particularly disturbing and upsetting scenario but, truthfully, not a rare one. I've talked to thin friends who are amazed at the volume completely creepy things people say and do to me. It's more than just staring or winking, I've been followed off the train multiple times, passed notes, men have grabbed me, asked me to take them home with me (a serious request), tried to kiss me or ask me to show them my breasts, they call after me and get verbally abusive if I just walk away or try to ignore it. But really, what do these guys think they are going to accomplish by behaving like this? Do you think that coming after me in a subway station and following me up the stairs will lead to me running back to your place to sleep with you? I don't think I get hit on more than my skinny friends or because I'm some exceptionally hot piece, but this latest experience has me wondering if men feel like, because I'm fat, I'm more likely to be receptive to these completely inappropriate and disgusting advances. It's insulting on so many levels and, frankly, couldn't be further from the truth.
> 
> ...



*UGH, I am sorry that happened to you. I don't know WHY some men think because we are fat that we are desperate and that they can come on to us with some stupid line and/or fantasy and we will just be sooooo glad that they gave US the time of day that we would gladly just have sex with them right then and there. UGH, UGH! I hate that mentality and I am NEVER desperate. 

I'm glad you told the people in the store about the idiot. That is SUPER creepy and I would feel very violated as well. :-(*


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## scoot (Jun 23, 2011)

Alzison said:


> So something kind of upsetting happened to me today and I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience. I had a nice morning, brunch with friends, then went to read outside for a few hours. Eventually, I decided to take a walk and stopped at a nearby used bookstore. The place was very small, and I quickly moved to the back of the store to peruse the fiction section. Immediately after turning the corner of the far bookcase, I was face-to-face with a guy I recognized from the park where I had been reading. I was listening to music and started walking away, but he waved at me to take off my headphones. My thought was that I just wanted to get rid of the guy and do so as quickly and calmly as possible, so I stopped and asked him what he wanted. "I don't want to say this too loud, but I wanted to tell you what I was thinking. I was thinking of this story. I follow you here from the park. And then we have an intimate conversation and- do you get what I'm saying?" I said "well, you just said you followed me here, so I get that that is pretty damn creepy." "No, I'm just sharing this thought I had. It's like... it's like foreplay... I follow you here, we have this intimate conversation and then... 'dot dot dot.' Do you get what I'm saying?" "Yeah," I said, "and it's not gonna happen." He told me he had to "take a leak" and soon left the store and I went up to the front desk to tell them about the dude and warn them not to let him back inside. Pretty much immediately, I took off and got as far away from that neighborhood as I could. OK, I walked a few blocks to a hat store and tried to find refuge in the floppy bonnets. Still!
> 
> The following me made me feel pretty violated, not to mention the fact that he admitted it to me as some sort of seduction technique. And it got me thinking. This was a particularly disturbing and upsetting scenario but, truthfully, not a rare one. I've talked to thin friends who are amazed at the volume completely creepy things people say and do to me. It's more than just staring or winking, I've been followed off the train multiple times, passed notes, men have grabbed me, asked me to take them home with me (a serious request), tried to kiss me or ask me to show them my breasts, they call after me and get verbally abusive if I just walk away or try to ignore it. But really, what do these guys think they are going to accomplish by behaving like this? Do you think that coming after me in a subway station and following me up the stairs will lead to me running back to your place to sleep with you? I don't think I get hit on more than my skinny friends or because I'm some exceptionally hot piece, but this latest experience has me wondering if men feel like, because I'm fat, I'm more likely to be receptive to these completely inappropriate and disgusting advances. It's insulting on so many levels and, frankly, couldn't be further from the truth.
> 
> ...



Question (A New Viewpoint): How might a man that is interested in you, outside of being introduced 2 U by a common acquaintances, pursue you, if interested? How can any one that doesn't know you get to know you without a formal introduction? Paranoid? Starring at U from afar for a long period of time may show interest, but just following and winking at U without ever talking or approaching you in any reasonable amount of time sounds creepy 2 me as well,... especially from afar in public. Shy people aren't usually that noticeable or pronounced. I know that I take the same route 2 work every morning, and no doubt encounter a-lot of the same cars & faces every day. I think your caution is reasonable, but maybe you might miss out on some one who is genuinely interested in U by reason of your paranoia. Can any one approach you for any reason that doesn't sound creepy 2 U, without a formal introduction? Is every one U don't know already creepy 2 U? Is sexual attraction irrelevant? I know that sometimes you can simply see and get a feeling about some one (the way they move, talk, and act toward you, etc.) that let's you know something is off (aside of just plain dorkiness). :doh: But, we're not all psychics, in that we shouldn't judge others by mere appearances or just by the stupid things being said that we all say sometimes when we're shy or uncomfortable, and just trying to make a good first impression. Does your size matter in this? There are good & bad people in the world, but I think most people are nice (despite the media approach of those more notorious figures). I'm not telling you 2 change, but I think maybe U R more afraid than cautious? Anyway, better safe than sorry. Take care, Alzison...

-scoot


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## CastingPearls (Jun 23, 2011)

scoot said:


> Question (A New Viewpoint): How might a man that is interested in you, outside of being introduced 2 U by a common acquaintances, pursue you, if interested? How can any one that doesn't know you get to know you without a formal introduction? Paranoid? Starring at U from afar for a long period of time may show interest, but just following and winking at U without ever talking or approaching you in any reasonable amount of time sounds creepy 2 me as well,... especially from afar in public. Shy people aren't usually that noticeable or pronounced. I know that I take the same route 2 work every morning, and no doubt encounter a-lot of the same cars & faces every day. I think your caution is reasonable, but maybe you might miss out on some one who is genuinely interested in U by reason of your paranoia. Can any one approach you for any reason that doesn't sound creepy 2 U, without a formal introduction? Is every one U don't know already creepy 2 U? Is sexual attraction irrelevant? I know that sometimes you can simply see and get a feeling about some one (the way they move, talk, and act toward you, etc.) that let's you know something is off (aside of just plain dorkiness). :doh: But, we're not all psychics, in that we shouldn't judge others by mere appearances or just by the stupid things being said that we all say sometimes when we're shy or uncomfortable, and just trying to make a good first impression. Does your size matter in this? There are good & bad people in the world, but I think most people are nice (despite the media approach of those more notorious figures). I'm not telling you 2 change, but I think maybe U R more afraid than cautious? Anyway, better safe than sorry. Take care, Alzison...
> 
> -scoot


Paranoid? REALLY? Shy? REALLY? The guy didn't commit some faux-pas in his enthusiasm and appreciation and anticipation of a date with her. How difficult is it for anyone to say 'Hey I think you're pretty and was thinking maybe you'd want to get coffee' or maybe here's my number or whatever--it wasn't a shy man being awkward. It was a creepy crawly disgusting creeper who started making sexual innuendo to a woman alone (and cornered I might add) --what part of--'this story I was thinking', and 'foreplay' and 'intimate conversation dot dot dot' did you not get? 

Sexual attractive is indeed relevant but his behavior was blatantly over the top and you ask her to OVERLOOK his dorkiness? Is that what we're calling assholes who say clearly threatening and intimidating things to women -who incidentally wouldn't have had the balls to have said that to her had she been with a group of friends cos sneak attacks are soooooo suave aren't they?

You say we're not all psychics and that goes for her too. She felt violated and intimidated and threatened. Her feelings in spite of your defense of that troglodyte were completely valid if only to her and she got out of there (and they aren't any less valid if she doesn't file a police report YAKATORI so cut the shit with the slut-shaming) as she saw fit. You gave him far more benefit of the doubt than you did her. Very telling. Why don't you share some pick-up techniques of your own with us so we can critique them too.

If that was that guy's idea of 'trying to make a good first impression' then he failed miserably and NOBODY, least of all a woman who he clearly scared needs to hold his hand to help him navigate the awkward and puzzling world of hooking up.

If you weren't telling her to change then why did you tell her not to judge and ignore her own instinct? 

That guy isn't the only one who is clueless.


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## olwen (Jun 23, 2011)

scoot said:


> Question (A New Viewpoint): How might a man that is interested in you, outside of being introduced 2 U by a common acquaintances, pursue you, if interested? How can any one that doesn't know you get to know you without a formal introduction? Paranoid? Starring at U from afar for a long period of time may show interest, but just following and winking at U without ever talking or approaching you in any reasonable amount of time sounds creepy 2 me as well,... especially from afar in public. Shy people aren't usually that noticeable or pronounced. I know that I take the same route 2 work every morning, and no doubt encounter a-lot of the same cars & faces every day. I think your caution is reasonable, but maybe you might miss out on some one who is genuinely interested in U by reason of your paranoia. Can any one approach you for any reason that doesn't sound creepy 2 U, without a formal introduction? Is every one U don't know already creepy 2 U? Is sexual attraction irrelevant? I know that sometimes you can simply see and get a feeling about some one (the way they move, talk, and act toward you, etc.) that let's you know something is off (aside of just plain dorkiness). :doh: But, we're not all psychics, in that we shouldn't judge others by mere appearances or just by the stupid things being said that we all say sometimes when we're shy or uncomfortable, and just trying to make a good first impression. Does your size matter in this? There are good & bad people in the world, but I think most people are nice (despite the media approach of those more notorious figures). I'm not telling you 2 change, but I think maybe U R more afraid than cautious? Anyway, better safe than sorry. Take care, Alzison...
> 
> -scoot



Not to speak for Alzison, but seriously? We've been talking about creepy guys in this thread. Not guys who just walk up to you and say "Hi, my name is so and so how are you?" If a guy is genuinely interested but is going to be shy and weird he's probably just not going to get anywhere and he shouldn't blame his dating failures on a woman's "paranoia," he should get his act together. I think most women can figure out the difference between shy and harmless and creepy and disgusting. If a guy can approach in a nice normal way he will likely get somewhere, but stalking, creeping, saying the most disgusting and inappropriate things, groping, fondling, or minor acts of violence really aren't a good way to try and pick up a woman.


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## scoot (Jun 23, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> Paranoid? REALLY? Shy? REALLY? The guy didn't commit some faux-pas in his enthusiasm and appreciation and anticipation of a date with her. How difficult is it for anyone to say 'Hey I think you're pretty and was thinking maybe you'd want to get coffee' or maybe here's my number or whatever--it wasn't a shy man being awkward. It was a creepy crawly disgusting creeper who started making sexual innuendo to a woman alone (and cornered I might add) --what part of--'this story I was thinking', and 'foreplay' and 'intimate conversation dot dot dot' did you not get?
> 
> Sexual attractive is indeed relevant but his behavior was blatantly over the top and you ask her to OVERLOOK his dorkiness? Is that what we're calling assholes who say clearly threatening and intimidating things to women -who incidentally wouldn't have had the balls to have said that to her had she been with a group of friends cos sneak attacks are soooooo suave aren't they?
> 
> ...



Hi! I understand your input, and am more friendly and direct in my approach if at all (unintendedly I am still a dork though). Apparently I have inflamed your indignation, unintentionally. Maybe you know more about this story than what was written in the post - perhaps you have more experience. I respect your honesty. Anyway, I would like you to explain the art of approaching a beautiful woman (like you), unannounced, if that is acceptable. thanks! :bow:


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## scoot (Jun 23, 2011)

olwen said:


> Not to speak for Alzison, but seriously? We've been talking about creepy guys in this thread. Not guys who just walk up to you and say "Hi, my name is so and so how are you?" If a guy is genuinely interested but is going to be shy and weird he's probably just not going to get anywhere and he shouldn't blame his dating failures on a woman's "paranoia," he should get his act together. I think most women can figure out the difference between shy and harmless and creepy and disgusting. If a guy can approach in a nice normal way he will likely get somewhere, but stalking, creeping, saying the most disgusting and inappropriate things, groping, fondling, or minor acts of violence really aren't a good way to try and pick up a woman.



Isn't that what I just clarified?


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## Alzison (Jun 23, 2011)

scoot said:


> Question (A New Viewpoint): How might a man that is interested in you, outside of being introduced 2 U by a common acquaintances, pursue you, if interested? ...
> 
> There are good & bad people in the world, but I think most people are nice (despite the media approach of those more notorious figures). I'm not telling you 2 change, but I think maybe U R more afraid than cautious? Anyway, better safe than sorry. Take care, Alzison...
> 
> -scoot





CastingPearls said:


> Paranoid? REALLY? Shy? REALLY? The guy didn't commit some faux-pas in his enthusiasm and appreciation and anticipation of a date with her. How difficult is it for anyone to say 'Hey I think you're pretty and was thinking maybe you'd want to get coffee' or maybe here's my number or whatever--it wasn't a shy man being awkward. It was a creepy crawly disgusting creeper who started making sexual innuendo to a woman alone (and cornered I might add) --what part of--'this story I was thinking', and 'foreplay' and 'intimate conversation dot dot dot' did you not get?
> 
> Sexual attractive is indeed relevant but his behavior was blatantly over the top and you ask her to OVERLOOK his dorkiness? Is that what we're calling assholes who say clearly threatening and intimidating things to women -who incidentally wouldn't have had the balls to have said that to her had she been with a group of friends cos sneak attacks are soooooo suave aren't they?
> 
> ...



Uhhh... is this really a question? I mean, if you are *really* asking me why it is NOT ok for a dude to approach someone and basically be like "heh heh heh, so I followed you here in the hopes that this conversation could lead to us banging. What do you think?" then you have greater issues than I can possibly respond to. How SHOULD a woman be approached? Uh, in a polite way. Perhaps just saying "hi". If you are in a bookstore, maybe you could TALK ABOUT BOOKS?! I don't generally cower in a corner when in public or approached by a man, though from you, scoot, I might certainly run the other way...


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## scoot (Jun 23, 2011)

Alzison said:


> Uhhh... is this really a question? I mean, if you are *really* asking me why it is NOT ok for a dude to approach someone and basically be like "heh heh heh, so I followed you here in the hopes that this conversation could lead to us banging. What do you think?" then you have greater issues than I can possibly respond to. How SHOULD a woman be approached? Uh, in a polite way. Perhaps just saying "hi". If you are in a bookstore, maybe you could TALK ABOUT BOOKS?! I don't generally cower in a corner when in public or approached by a man, though from you, scoot, I might certainly run the other way...



I don't understand this response - it never applied to me. I wasn't talking about myself, but some one else.


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## scoot (Jun 23, 2011)

I reread your initial post and didn't get it all at first with the interpretations of your viewpoint as opposed to precise dialog, but with all you friends providing elaborations henceforth and rereading the post I do understand now. I'm Sorry you had to experience that - no offense intended.


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## SanDiega (Jun 23, 2011)

Slim FFA here intrigued by your post. I think that to be an attractive woman, regardless of weight, color, age, ect. will make you a magnet for creeps.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jun 23, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> sorry you had to deal with this creepy situation. i do think it has to do with being fat but maybe not for the reason most people think. their are so many sexually pent up men out there who have wanted us for so long and never had the guts to be very public about it. i think after so much time squelching your true desires something happens to you. i'm not talking about what people might call FAs. i'm talking about men in general. i have personally met very few men who have never or will never find something very physically appealing about fat women. think about it. fat women just have even bigger feminine parts than average sized women. so this uber femme presentation we give off, even when we don't try to, must be very attractive to a lot of men.
> 
> i feel its always been a fight between hedonism and puritanism. fat women are the hedonistic part of life. we appear to eat exactly what we want and our body parts, their size and their movements speak very boldly of sexual pleasure that we might participate in. there isn't much that's demure about us and i think that is much more attractive to many more men than the women who look like and preach a version of self denial.
> 
> ...



I like your theory about hedonism and puritanism. 



olwen said:


> I agree with a lot of this, But what I don't get is why a man should see a tall fat woman as a threat. I suppose it makes sense if the man doesn't really see "femininity" in a fat woman, just a body that's bigger than his. This makes feel that there are a lot of men who have a tenuous hold on their masculinity. Just last week I was in a bar. A skinny chick nearby decided to start arm wrestling all the other skinny chicks. When it was my turn I beat her and a few other women besides. Next I arm wrestled a dude and lost. The next guy didn't want to arm wrestle me, but he did arm wrestle all the other women. It kind of pissed me off. My arm was tired by then and he likely would have won. Clearly he saw a woman, but he also saw me as a threat. I'm just amazed sometimes at how men equate size with power rather than ability. Just because someone is big doesn't mean they'd be able to fight well. But by contrast these creepy guys who think they can get away with all kinds of disgusting shit probably see weakness in fat women. So what makes those guys different from the guys who see power/threat in fat women?



Some guys just are wimps- scared little boys who throw tantrums when "mother" doesn't drop everything and fulfill every need of a total stranger. Some seem to think that women, in general, were put on earth to serve them. (Yes I'm going to add the disclaimer NOT ALL because there really are some fantastic men out in the world).

I have my own theory about what Lamia said about that guy seeming to spend way too much time online. I tend to think the same thing about "inexperienced" men who spend too much time watching porn, too. 
The porno fantasy women don't usually act like the rest of us real people, do they? 
If I act out a porno scene with a lover, then that's all it is- a fantasy re-enactment with a person I have some type of friendship/relationship with- and I think guys that have never had actual relationships don't understand that part. 
The women in porn/fantasy usually act that way because they are paid ACTRESSES i.e. that shit doesn't always happen that way. It's really easy for the men in porn to get the woman because...she's paid to fuck him. duh. It's all been pre-arranged- it's not all that it seems and isn't really happening that easy. Even if the actress wants/enjoys the sex- it doesn't mean she's doing it for fantasy- nor does it mean that it's going to ever happen for a man like it does in porn. 

Men who have been in actual relationships instead of spending all their time in the fantasy world probably understand that it isn't always that easy. More is involved in the dynamic of sexual relationships than simply telling a random stranger that you're horny. 

Sounds like the dot dot dot guy probably never had a real girlfriend :huh:



paintsplotch said:


> OMG i totally get this....... i feel like guys only want to stick around long enough to see if i will have sex with them. i wait MONTHS.... as soon as we have sex..... POOFFFF!!!
> 
> then litterally six months to a couple years later, every one of them comes back and says that they miss me and dont know why they left me. i dont get it. i think i went off topic.... maybe... sorry..... ack..... im frustrated and confused.



That's weird because I have had some of the same experiences. Men that blow me off quick and easily- that come around later wanting to try again. Wtf? 



CastingPearls said:


> Paranoid? REALLY? Shy? REALLY? The guy didn't commit some faux-pas in his enthusiasm and appreciation and anticipation of a date with her. How difficult is it for anyone to say 'Hey I think you're pretty and was thinking maybe you'd want to get coffee' or maybe here's my number or whatever--it wasn't a shy man being awkward. It was a creepy crawly disgusting creeper who started making sexual innuendo to a woman alone (and cornered I might add) --what part of--'this story I was thinking', and 'foreplay' and 'intimate conversation dot dot dot' did you not get?
> 
> Sexual attractive is indeed relevant but his behavior was blatantly over the top and you ask her to OVERLOOK his dorkiness? Is that what we're calling assholes who say clearly threatening and intimidating things to women -who incidentally wouldn't have had the balls to have said that to her had she been with a group of friends cos sneak attacks are soooooo suave aren't they?
> 
> ...



Thank you- you said this well. 

I'm still not getting how scoot could have misconstrued the initial post as he claims. 

Scoot.....as a woman, I am _aware_ that men have "sexual needs". I also realize that when men have approached me in some way, that sexual motivation is usually behind it. That's _okay_- and I suspect most women are like me- they KNOW. 

However, what's not okay is a man assuming that it's okay to just go up to a woman he does not know and put his NEED right out there in front. Some women require time... (dot dot dot? ) Time to assess the situation, time to figure out the man's intentions and if we are attracted to him, time to figure out if we like him, can trust him, etc. 
Personally, I never see a man and just want to "jump him". I have seen men out on the street that make my heart beat faster but I would never go up to him and immediately try to have sex with him. 

Not all women are like the ones presented in porno/fantasy fiction. I think this can be very confusing for some men.

P.S. I haven't bothered to read Yakotuna's posts other than the capitalized line about calling the police. I'm glad I didn't bother. Apparently it's another case of someone who has never had it happen dispensing "advice" because they deem themselves smarter for some unknown reason.


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## scoot (Jun 23, 2011)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I'm still not getting how scoot could have misconstrued the initial post as he claims.
> 
> Scoot.....as a woman, I am _aware_ that men have "sexual needs". I also realize that when men have approached me in some way, that sexual motivation is usually behind it. That's _okay_- and I suspect most women are like me- they KNOW.
> 
> ...



I skim posts sometimes - my bad. For every man that participates in a porno video (in actuality or in virtuality), there is a woman doing it, too. Unless otherwise construed (gay or solo). Here we are? Pornography is viewed in a way that natural sexual relations are not seen by the actual participants, but from a third party point of view (camera view). This is not my perspective at all, nor my stand on any issue regarding human relations. Porn is perverse compared to the actuality of real human relations. Unless otherwise construed. No one is really ignorant here, Right? Anyway, I honor everyone's emotional care and insight here. Three ellipsis dots suggest an omission of one paragraph (editorial), while seven ellipsis dots denote the omission of more than one paragraph (eg. Harvard University). Until next time, hang loose every one...


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## Yakatori (Jun 23, 2011)

Jes said:


> "_...one of ways of answering your repeated 'why don't you call the police when it's happening' question would be for you to live in a woman's body and socially-conditioned mindset for a month. I think you might well have a different take on things, then._"


Well, I did point-out at the outset that it's precisely because I'm a guy that I don't really have to deal with any of this on the same level. So, my point is in how that can inform some solution to the problem for...non-guys. 



biglynch said:


> "_..lay of the long winded garbage...that was the most pointless load of toss i ever wasted my time on reading._"


Ok, I'll try to make my point more succintly. Especially as we're not too much at odds on this.



CastingPearls said:


> "_Her feelings...were completely valid if only to her and she got out of there (and they aren't any less valid if she doesn't file a police report YAKATORI so cut the shit with the slut-shaming) _"


Look, I realize that my post was too long, the transitions too...I dunno. If anyone mistakes where I'm coming from, that's on me. But I don't mean to invalidate the very real problem of fear, especially if just by asking questions, albeit pointed ones.



LillyBBBW said:


> "_..I am defiantly trying not to let this person steal anything from my life....I don't have time for this bullshit..._"


As much as it might seem otherwise, I actually do get that. It's, sort of, part of my point; which was really directed at this question:



Alzison said:


> "_...this latest experience has me wondering *if men feel like, because I'm fat, I'm more likely to be receptive to these completely inappropriate and disgusting advances...to explain the way men react to women like me*...Thoughts?_"


You can't really answer this logically or intelligently without making some basic distinction between men in general versus criminals & moral-deviants. There are obviously FA's in both categories, just as they are comprised of people of every race, social & economic class, religion, sexual orientation, level of education, etc.. What motivates the people of the first group, the types of strategies/tactics they tend to employ, the rules of engagement under which they operate, however diverse; is very different from those which apply to the other group. And so, suffice it to say that it's not as much a matter of "being fat" or what you're "receptive-to" as much as it's their anticipated outcome of the encounter based on both their previous experiences in similar types of encounters and with the types of methods they're most practiced-in. By inference, if you change the dynamics of the encounter, you can both change how they will anticipate the outcome and, as a result, how they will behave toward you, at least in that particular encounter. 



olwen said:


> "_...Are you saying that a woman should file a report to the police any time she thinks a guy is thinking about being aggressive towards her or that she should say "stop or I'll call the cops" if he actually displays aggression? I do think shouting something, anything back at the guy might make him stop. Or even better, to take out a phone and snap a picture or a video and threaten to put it on the internet, like that one woman did to the guy who flashed her on the 6 train a few months ago._"


Nah, I'm not really saying that. I'm sort of explicit in saying otherwise, there and here. But to that point, why do you that suppose someone; someone who's, obviously, otherwise so out of step with some very basic social-norms; is somehow deterred by your camera-phone? Is it because they're, really, afraid of the social stigma of being photographed in that particular context? Or are they probably more directly fearful of something else that they attach to being photographed in that manner? 



LillyBBBW said:


> "_...the person who is going to be attracted to me is always going to be the weirdest person present. The one that one of my friends will say, "Oh my GAD, look at that dude over there!! What the hell is that on his head??"...If he says anything at all it will brobably be the most bass ackward thing that makes conversation fall silent in an instant. ..."He said he likes thick thighs and hamburgers. What the fuck do you think he said, he's a fucking wierdo for crying out loud! *runs away*"..._"


Heh-heh. Well, there's a difference between creepy/awkward-shy versus creepy/aggressive-inappropriate. And it can be like a fine dotted line that you lose track-of here and there. And there are some people that quite adept at floating back and forth across it. But let's not mistake that line for not being real or worth considering & defending. Let's not conflate perfectly valid disgust/annoyance for/with marginal-but-generally-law-abiding guys for a sensible approach to someone who intentionally causes real fear and humiliation; who physically assaults someone that's at some disadvantage, either physical, intellectual, or emotional. Cause it's really two different animals.

*CastingPearls* sort of touches on this, but I feel it bears repeating/rehashing as the confusion over this as well as the larger dichotomy (described above in direct response to *Alzison's* main question, between regular dudes and people who, in some form or other, are on their way to incarceration) seems to permeate a lot of the thinking in this thread if not inform some prejudice within this community. Of course, I will concede that some "shy-awkward guys" (SAG's?) might stare at you across a room all night without ever approaching, or they might, finally approaching, stammer-out something totally nonsensical. And I appreciate that it can be frustrating/somewhat scary. But that is a world away from the stuff described in here, similar only to the extent that totally you ignore the key elements: tactic?=>reasonably-expected result?=>intent?=>motivation?. 



LillyBBBW said:


> If women called the police every time a group of thugs sexually harassed her the police would be extremely busy. *I don't know what it is but there are high concentrations of men out there who objectify women this way.* It's terrible in summer.


 Yeah, I agree; no sense in wasting valuable/limited manpower over some bullshit. However, I think we both know that -even if- that's what I was advocating, there's no way that it could result in people responding in that manner, to that degree. On the other hand, if more people just thought a little more about what they -might- want to do in such a situation, then they might also take some minute steps toward preparing to do just that. And, in turn, in some of the most egregious of these types of situations, people would likely involve police sooner, which would result in more of the worst of these types of offenders getting caught. And, well, that can have all kinds of residual effects I won't bother going into here. 

Otherwise, and not that I agree with/promote this type of a sentiment or the tone with which it's delivered, but your rant immediately made me think of it. And I think it's worth mentioning for how it underscores that; if we are to take aim at an actual solution, one that goes but a little further than just trying to make victims of crimes feel better about themselves; and if that requires leveraging the full weight of some organizational resources; then it will depend on a certain level of patience and discipline from a lot of individuals, people looking beyond the most immediate results and their own self-interests. To be fair, and for a lot of us, the most self-interested thing can be to take such an incident as a pure anomaly and not think too much of it beyond that. And that's, really, perfectly-cool. Just fine. As many of us just don't have the time/energy; and even if we did, why would we want to spend it on that? It's, basically, unfair to ask for that.

However, try to understand that, for some, a totally different calculus applies; one not just directed toward toward ourselves as the victim to be made whole; but, and, really, to the exclusion of the former, to the perpetrators of these acts and the danger they present, and their next victim, and the victim after that, and the one after that one, and the one after that, and so-on, and so-on... And so, unfair as it is for anyone to ask you to do what you otherwise as might not do; it's no more fair for anyone to balk at the question, "Shouldn't someone do something? Say something?" To be fair, it's highly unlikely that the creep you're facing-off with today is actually the serial-killer of tomorrow. But as unlikely as that is, it's that much more likely that, unchecked, his creepiness will continue to escalate; that is, until he's arrested/caught in some fashion or another. Which he very likely will, as easily for this particular type of crime as of any of a number of others. So, it's not really your problem, nor is it mine, or anyone's; lest/until they choose to take it on.



Red said:


> "_I do seem to attract the crazies...he took this as his opportunity to approach me and shout full on in my face...I looked at him bewildered...then he punched me straight in the stomach...enough to scare the shit out of me... I couldn't imagine this sort of thing happening if I were thin...*I still can't work out why he would do that, to a complete stranger*, this guy was young, conventionally good looking and mad enough to attack a complete stranger for not being attracted to him but he did it in a sneaky enough way to make sure no-one else noticed, embarrassment? *My conclusion is still that he was on coke*.._"


I wouldn't be surprised at all if some sort of controlled substance was a factor in any of the situations described in this thread. As it's perfectly valid to talk about things like poverty, familial instability, lack of educational/professional opportunity, disabilities, etc..as to things which help to steer a person toward one group or from another. But, if we're honest about it, there's people all over the world that use/abuse/enjoy all kinds of drugs that manage to get through the day without punching someone in the stomach, as there are people who're very poor, who do nothing but work until there's no more work that they can do, and then they just go without. Likewise, just as things like pornography can be a trigger for someone who's predisposed to these types of behaviors; there are parts of the world where there's no legal pornography and the level of harassment you'd experience would make some of this seem tame in comparison. Just as there are places in the world where both the ubiquity and variety of pornography and pornographically-inspired images/memes would seem sort of bizarre to many of us that actually experience very little, proportionally, in the way of street-crime or stranger on stranger-violence. Incidentally, such places have no shortage of shy-awkward guys. Similarly, I would agree that eye-contact can needlessly attract the attention of a violent-predatory person. However, you can say the same about any of number of things that are either totally outside of your immediate control or impossible to reasonably anticipate. And, of course, once you have that person's attention, taking your eyes off of them, if even for a second; well, I could on and on; but the point is.. I think it's, kind of, more helpful to try look at violence/intimidation as well as lawlessness as their own things, worthy of their own attention, for their own sake and outside of the context of all of these ancillary causes/problems. And to meet them with an appropriately focused & severe response.


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## olwen (Jun 23, 2011)

Yakatori said:


> Well, I did point-out at the outset that it's precisely because I'm a guy that I don't really have to deal with any of this on the same level. So, my point is in how that can inform some solution to the problem for...non-guys.
> 
> Ok, I'll try to make my point more succintly. Especially as we're not too much at odds on this.
> 
> ...



.....What?


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## biglynch (Jun 24, 2011)

"Ok, I'll try to make my point more succintly"

Followed by a page of more madness. Look im sure you are a decent person and want to help, but i say let this one go buddy.


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## Pitch (Jun 24, 2011)

biglynch said:


> "Ok, I'll try to make my point more succintly"
> 
> Followed by a page of more madness. Look im sure you are a decent person and want to help, but i say let this one go buddy.



I'm with you and behind this because what the _diddles_ just happened there!?


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## Jes (Jun 24, 2011)

If Yakatori and I had a Talk Off, he just might win! And that's realllly saying something, people.


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## LillyBBBW (Jun 24, 2011)

Yakatori said:


> Yeah, I agree; no sense in wasting valuable/limited manpower over some bullshit. However, I think we both know that -even if- that's what I was advocating, there's no way that it could result in people responding in that manner, to that degree. On the other hand, if more people just thought a little more about what they -might- want to do in such a situation, then they might also take some minute steps toward preparing to do just that. And, in turn, in some of the most egregious of these types of situations, people would likely involve police sooner, which would result in more of the worst of these types of offenders getting caught. And, well, that can have all kinds of residual effects I won't bother going into here.
> 
> Otherwise, and not that I agree with/promote this type of a sentiment or the tone with which it's delivered, but your rant immediately made me think of it. And I think it's worth mentioning for how it underscores that; if we are to take aim at an actual solution, one that goes but a little further than just trying to make victims of crimes feel better about themselves; and if that requires leveraging the full weight of some organizational resources; then it will depend on a certain level of patience and discipline from a lot of individuals, people looking beyond the most immediate results and their own self-interests. To be fair, and for a lot of us, the most self-interested thing can be to take such an incident as a pure anomaly and not think too much of it beyond that. And that's, really, perfectly-cool. Just fine. As many of us just don't have the time/energy; and even if we did, why would we want to spend it on that? It's, basically, unfair to ask for that.
> 
> However, try to understand that, for some, a totally different calculus applies; one not just directed toward toward ourselves as the victim to be made whole; but, and, really, to the exclusion of the former, to the perpetrators of these acts and the danger they present, and their next victim, and the victim after that, and the one after that one, and the one after that, and so-on, and so-on... And so, unfair as it is for anyone to ask you to do what you otherwise as might not do; it's no more fair for anyone to balk at the question, "Shouldn't someone do something? Say something?" To be fair, it's highly unlikely that the creep you're facing-off with today is actually the serial-killer of tomorrow. But as unlikely as that is, it's that much more likely that, unchecked, his creepiness will continue to escalate; that is, until he's arrested/caught in some fashion or another. Which he very likely will, as easily for this particular type of crime as of any of a number of others. So, it's not really your problem, nor is it mine, or anyone's; lest/until they choose to take it on.



Yakatori you've already asked this question and we gave you an answer based on our ground-level experiences on the issue. We've been women for a whole lot longer than you have and we understand all too well what's on the table here. Be that as it may we still have to choose our battles for reasons that would take too long to expound upon in detail. You are not telling us anything we don't already know intimately and our safety zone extends far beyond just the material space you can mark with a strip of yellow warning tape. It would be great if everything operated orderly and sanitarily when rote procedures are followed but that is not always the case. In fact, it is rarely the case. You make good points but honestly I think you are too busy looking at the forrest to notice the tree.


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## LovelyLiz (Jun 24, 2011)

Jes said:


> If Yakatori and I had a Talk Off, he just might win! And that's realllly saying something, people.



HA! For real. I don't agree with everything the guy says, but I like that Yakatori. He at least has contributed actual ideas to this conversation that, even when disagreed with, move things forward. Like in thinking about and explaining why we *wouldn't* choose to call the police in all of those situations, I mean, I hadn't even really thought of that as an option, but thinking about it (and dismissing it) did help me clarify some things.


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## JulianDW (Jun 24, 2011)

Yakatori said:


> Heh-heh. Well, there's a difference between creepy/awkward-shy versus creepy/aggressive-inappropriate. And it can be like a fine dotted line that you lose track-of here and there. And there are some people that quite adept at floating back and forth across it. But let's not mistake that line for not being real or worth considering & defending. Let's not conflate perfectly valid disgust/annoyance for/with marginal-but-generally-law-abiding guys for a sensible approach to someone who intentionally causes real fear and humiliation; who physically assaults someone that's at some disadvantage, either physical, intellectual, or emotional. Cause it's really two different animals.



Yakatori, that post had a lot of food for thought to chew on:eat1:! I think this bit is interesting because it gives some perspective on how one could view 'creepyness' in different contexts. Some situations aren't always black and white (op's however might be) and theres sometimes a grey area. I remember once when I was younger being 'pursued' by a woman older than me by 5 years. She took the same class as me and decided to 'get to know me' by bribing a colleague of mine into giving her my number. For at least half an hour she texted me creepy messages and then revealed her identity. Now, I should've said "I don't care who you are, you're creepy, leave me alone!" but since I thought she was cute, I actually disregarded the whole thing:doh: Again, I was younger/naive(er), but this example shows how creepyness is subjective or just 'in the eye of the beholder' in some cases. Anyway, those are my thoughts for the day


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## Alzison (Jun 24, 2011)

JulianDW said:


> Yakatori, that post had a lot of food for thought to chew on:eat1:! I think this bit is interesting because it gives some perspective on how one could view 'creepyness' in different contexts. Some situations aren't always black and white (op's however might be) and theres sometimes a grey area. I remember once when I was younger being 'pursued' by a woman older than me by 5 years. She took the same class as me and decided to 'get to know me' by bribing a colleague of mine into giving her my number. For at least half an hour she texted me creepy messages and then revealed her identity. Now, I should've said "I don't care who you are, you're creepy, leave me alone!" but since I thought she was cute, I actually disregarded the whole thing:doh: Again, I was younger/naive(er), but this example shows how creepyness is subjective or just 'in the eye of the beholder' in some cases. Anyway, those are my thoughts for the day





Yakatori said:


> You can't really answer this logically or intelligently without making some basic distinction between men in general versus criminals & moral-deviants. There are obviously FA's in both categories, just as they are comprised of people of every race, social & economic class, religion, sexual orientation, level of education, etc.. What motivates the people of the first group, the types of strategies/tactics they tend to employ, the rules of engagement under which they operate, however diverse; is very different from those which apply to the other group.



@Julian- I'm glad you commented on this point as well. From what I read of Yakatori's post (and I tried my darndest to make it at least half-way), the part that struck me was the request to make a line between "men in general vs. criminals". I don't mean to come of as a misanthrope here, but I really don't think such a distinction is appropriate. I wouldn't say that a criminal and a general type of man (whatever that means) are really mutually exclusive ideas. Every man and woman (and child?) has issues and defects and baggage and the like, and to first separate out those who are morally and mentally right before analyzing a situation is really not reflective of... uh humanity in general. 

I'd say it's best to consider the behavior presented to you (as, with strangers, that's all you know) rather than trying to make any over-arching decisions about who the person is or what that means. This guy was a creep. That doesn't mean he didn't pass his spelling test in 3rd grade or ever walk an old lady across the street. Also- why does it matter?


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## tjw1971 (Jun 24, 2011)

Kind of interesting (yet disturbing) stuff in this thread. Part of me WANTS to be shocked and surprised that guys were actually doing some of this stuff, but the other part of me thinks, "Yeah... well.... that's the general public for ya."

I don't know if I have a whole lot that's constructive to add here, except I have a few random thoughts you can either consider or dismiss.

1. Do you think that rather than your size/weight, part of this might have more to do with the wealth or lack thereof of the geographical area you were in when these things happened? I know where I live, the way people tend to behave in public seems to be linked to how affluent the area is. If you're out in the suburbs, people tend to be polite and relatively reserved. Sure, the occasional teenager might drive by whistling a "cat call" at some woman, but he's doing it only when he knows he can make a quick escape in the vehicle before the person can even see who did it.... FAR from stalking behavior. On the other hand, I work in a poorer part of town where we've got more factories and trucking companies and such around. I've seen all kinds of shenanigans out here, including guys trying to jump into a woman's car at a stoplight and ask if she'll give him a ride someplace, or public harassment out in the open. It seems to be "socially acceptable" to most bystanders, if they live or work in the area, too.

2. I wonder if having more of an "alternative" or "off-beat" look contributes to some of the unwanted attention? When I think of the "creepy" types who spend too much time online fantasizing about women vs. actually spending time with them in person, I suspect some of them get all worked up with wild ideas about what they'd like to have "go down" with some gal. But they're probably secretly hoping they can find one who "gets" their weird fantasy, vs. the "run of the mill" women they see all day long who would *clearly* rebuff their advances. So when you look like the "off beat, artsy" type with your makeup, hairstyle and glasses -- you look to them like a better chance at finding what they're after; hence a really oddball approach out of the blue with a strange sexual request or what-not. (Quite frankly, as long as I've been in the computer field, 9 times out of 10, the women who do spend a lot of time online in chat rooms, playing online games, or attending "geek" or "comic" themed conventions DO tend to dress in that more non-conventional style.)


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## Fat Brian (Jun 24, 2011)

1. It doesn't matter where you are. These creepy guys have hit on my wife in all sorts of places across the economic spectrum.

2.It doesn't matter how you look, every one of these guys has a trigger and they are all different.


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## CastingPearls (Jun 24, 2011)

So Alzison, moral of the story (in a nutshell) is that you don't belong in shitty areas (like *gasp* bookstores) and next time, if you don't want to be sexually propositioned, don't go out without your burqa. Obviously you were asking for it. Um....yeah. 

Oh and also, give peace a chance.


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## HottiMegan (Jun 24, 2011)

Very interesting thread. I can honestly say that I'm about to turn 33 and have never been hit on by anyone in real life. I would sort of think that creepy guys go after all shapes and sizes. Maybe it's more creepiness of opportunity or convenience, a woman alone is a much easier target than one who is with others.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jun 25, 2011)

Yakketytuna- if your point (and I don't usually waste my time reading really long posts because if you know what you're talking about, you can get your point out faster than that I figure :blink has been that some people are just assholes and we should just gauge their eyes out when they offend us, then we are in total agreement. You're a swell guy.

If not, then I don't give a shit what you think anyway. *shrugs*

That is all. This has been fun for me.


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## scoot (Jun 27, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> So Alzison, moral of the story (in a nutshell) is that you don't belong in shitty areas (like *gasp* bookstores) and next time, if you don't want to be sexually propositioned, don't go out without your burqa. Obviously you were asking for it. Um....yeah.
> 
> Oh and also, give peace a chance.


0

Bookstores! She, therefore, doesn't belong in bookstores?! (C' MON, REALLY!) Yadda! Yadda!! Yadda!!! HA! Just kidding! Cool response! Books are the basis of our common knowledge and we all have the right to be there without any obstruction to our personal space (as I'm sure you were implying)! I am very intrigued by all the insightful posts in this thread, and you are all (or at least seem to be) very intuitive and caring people from the base level and from the heart. We all have an ability to be kind or mean to each other (on any level intellectually, emotionally, physically, or even sexually). I just want to let you all know (and I may be a goofball sometimes), that Love and kindness as well as fortitude (and there is no mortal fear here), is my basis to understanding all people (within reason of course). After being judged cheaply here a few times on these boards (probably just for being a nutty goofball in my opinion - my bad!), I do understand the value of each and every one of you. And I do esteem you all equally as valuable as myself. Whether or not it applies to this particular thread, it's hard to understand the emotional recourse or gravity involved in all cases. We're not all poets, Are We? :smitten: I do learn things here, where the insight is real. I hereby judge you to be equally valuable human beings in every way. Thanks, and hang loose, every one!


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## scoot (Jun 27, 2011)

tjw1971 said:


> Kind of interesting (yet disturbing) stuff in this thread. Part of me WANTS to be shocked and surprised that guys were actually doing some of this stuff, but the other part of me thinks, "Yeah... well.... that's the general public for ya."
> 
> I don't know if I have a whole lot that's constructive to add here, except I have a few random thoughts you can either consider or dismiss.
> 
> ...




A very cool, relevant, and reasonable response, no doubt, dude! But also, it's about the desire of the recipient being equally agreeably to the initiator (you can always try) but..., where freedom of choice is preserved (this is where personal respect is truly required). AMERICA (YEA!), our country is for EQUALITY FOR ALL I HOPE (as was the original intention) :happy:


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## scoot (Jun 27, 2011)

HottiMegan said:


> Very interesting thread. I can honestly say that I'm about to turn 33 and have never been hit on by anyone in real life. I would sort of think that creepy guys go after all shapes and sizes. Maybe it's more creepiness of opportunity or convenience, a woman alone is a much easier target than one who is with others.



It sounds like your focus is on unwanted predators here? I suspect that if you introduce yourself to a woman/ or man, and your assertiveness is not accepted at first (you should retract), and if you continue to pursue, it would fall in to the category of TARGETING someone UNWANTINGLY. SO STOP IMMEDIATELY! And without fear. What would anyone else want by elaborating on, or pursuing such a thing? If it is otherwise construed, call The Police! :doh:


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## steadydecline (Jun 28, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLPZmPaHme0


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## Alzison (Jun 28, 2011)

steadydecline said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLPZmPaHme0



Amaaaazing.


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## joey86 (Jul 2, 2011)

Hope not otherwise im a super super creep lol .


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## scoot (Jul 5, 2011)

steadydecline said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLPZmPaHme0



Freaking Hilarious!


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## LillyBBBW (Jul 5, 2011)

Hee! I've got one for you too.

http://youtu.be/fk8egz_yXL0


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## scoot (Jul 5, 2011)

LillyBBBW said:


> Hee! I've got one for you too.
> 
> http://youtu.be/fk8egz_yXL0



I didn't see Weird Al himself in the video (Was that weird Al?), but creepy and funny it is. :huh: I am Happy to have been in a wonderful relationship with my girl for over 6 years now, and as always looking forward to more....... Mua ha ha!


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## bigmac (Jul 5, 2011)

olwen said:


> ... If a guy can approach in a nice normal way he will likely get somewhere, ...



You would think so -- but I've observed over the years that women who are approached when they're not expecting it (i.e. at the supermarket//cafe//bookstore) tend to become very defensive and are likely to label almost any male who approachs a creep (or at least question his motives).


Ironically some of these same women will have no problem hooking up with much creeper guys when they're the one on the prowl (i.e. at the club).


So I guess what I'm saying is that creepiness can be situational.


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## Fat Brian (Jul 5, 2011)

bigmac said:


> So I guess what I'm saying is that creepiness can be situational.



I totally agree with this. When you are out at a club you expect people to approach you, not so much when you're picking up toilet paper.

And Lilly, I'm out of rep for you again.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jul 5, 2011)

bigmac said:


> I've observed over the years that women who are approached when they're not expecting it (i.e. at the supermarket//cafe//bookstore) tend to become very defensive and are likely to label almost any male who approachs a creep (or at least question his motives).
> 
> 
> Ironically some of these same women will have no problem hooking up with much creeper guys when they're the one on the prowl (i.e. at the club).
> ...



Fortune favors the prepared mind. In a club atmosphere one is prepared for flirting; when one is inspecting a cabbage such attention may prove disconcerting. I suspect many women approached in what is usually not considered a social situation are not so much defensive as blindsided. There is also the omigod-I'm-not-wearing-makeup-and-there's-a-coffee-stain-on-my-tshirt reaction to be considered.


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## olwen (Jul 5, 2011)

bigmac said:


> You would think so -- but I've observed over the years that women who are approached when they're not expecting it (i.e. at the supermarket//cafe//bookstore) tend to become very defensive and are likely to label almost any male who approachs a creep (or at least question his motives).
> 
> 
> Ironically some of these same women will have no problem hooking up with much creeper guys when they're the one on the prowl (i.e. at the club).
> ...



I don't agree. As long as a guy can say something like "Hi." and then not follow that with some lewd sexual remark or some backhanded compliment he'll be okay regardless of where they are. 

Clubbing is a different situation where alcohol is involved, which likely impairs one's judgment. Still tho, if I'm at a club and some guy says something creepy and disgusting it's still creepy and disgusting. Location matters not.


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## penguin (Jul 5, 2011)

bigmac said:


> You would think so -- but I've observed over the years that women who are approached when they're not expecting it (i.e. at the supermarket//cafe//bookstore) tend to become very defensive and are likely to label almost any male who approachs a creep (or at least question his motives).



It all depends on the approach. I've been approached in creepy ways and nice ways while out shopping. The creepy ways were all from men twice my age, too, if it matters. 



olwen said:


> I don't agree. As long as a guy can say something like "Hi." and then not follow that with some lewd sexual remark or some backhanded compliment he'll be okay regardless of where they are.



Exactly. Having a guy come up to me while I'm out shopping and saying "Hi, I hope you don't think I'm being rude, but I think you're beautiful and I'd like your number" worked with me.


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## jen68 (Jul 5, 2011)

Alzison, I disagree with and take offence at your friend who claims fat girls are much sluttier. If a woman is going to be slutty it has nothing to do with her size and as far as insecure, all women no matter the size have insecurities due to our societies views on women of all size, shape and hair color. I have two girl friends I go out with all the time of which I am the larger of us three. The friend who is the smaller of the bunch (not skinny not fat but just average size) seems to be the sluttier one. Because of that she gets the creeps who approach her at closing time of the bar, take her home and if they call her after that its only as a booty call. I on the other hand, yes have had creeps follow me to my car and ask for my number or come on to me. My response to them is I show them my wedding ring and tell them no thanks. But I have also had both men and women approach me at a bar wanting to talk and have commented how they are attracted to me because of how confident I am and how I have an edge about me. Yes I have insecurities just like every other woman thin or fat but I choose to not let those insecurities show. I have been married to my husband for 20 years. I dont think his interest in me had anything to do with my size (I have been fat all my life) but in the confidence I portray. I dont think that we should feel that all negative things that happen to us are because of our size. There are just people out there who are creeps period and you just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. Weather fat or thin our beauty comes from within and our confidence should come from who we are not what we look like. I think the comment your friend made about fat girls being sluttier stems from her own insecurities what ever they may be. And I am so sorry that creep made you feel violated. No one has the right to do that to anyone.


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## olwen (Jul 5, 2011)

penguin said:


> It all depends on the approach. I've been approached in creepy ways and nice ways while out shopping. The creepy ways were all from men twice my age, too, if it matters.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. Having a guy come up to me while I'm out shopping and saying "Hi, I hope you don't think I'm being rude, but I think you're beautiful and I'd like your number" worked with me.



OMG, That's like, the perfect thing to say. It would work with me too.


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## kioewen (Jul 6, 2011)

olwen said:


> As long as a guy can say something like "Hi." and then not follow that with some lewd sexual remark or some backhanded compliment he'll be okay regardless of where they are.



No, this doesn't usually work; not unless the guy is particularly attractive. And let's be honest, those who say that it _would_ work on them are likely imagining someone attractive introducing themselves this way, not someone ugly.

What few seem willingly to acknowledge is that much or even most of the degree of success of an approach depends more on the relative attractiveness of the guy doing the approaching than on the specifics of his approach.

An ugly guy will usually be construed as creepy, regardless of what he says. But a Brad Pitt type, or whatever, will be usually found desirable, _nearly_ regardless of what he says. And then between those two polarities there are gradations of success.

It's not a cheery prospect, but that's life.


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## doughboy4u71 (Jul 6, 2011)

kioewen said:


> An ugly guy will usually be construed as creepy, regardless of what he says. But a Brad Pitt type, or whatever, will be usually found desirable, _nearly_ regardless of what he says. And then between those two polarities there are gradations of success.
> 
> It's not a cheery prospect, but that's life.



that explains alot, im a troll by most womens standards so no wonder i am taken as creepy:doh:


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## penguin (Jul 6, 2011)

olwen said:


> OMG, That's like, the perfect thing to say. It would work with me too.



It really was. And he was so nervous when he asked, which I think helped him. If he'd come across as cocky it might have gone differently.



kioewen said:


> What few seem willingly to acknowledge is that much or even most of the degree of success of an approach depends more on the relative attractiveness of the guy doing the approaching than on the specifics of his approach.



What you're forgetting there, is that everyone has different tastes and you can't guess what someone else will find attractive. Lots of women will like Brad Pitt, but plenty will like Steve Buscemi too.


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## bigmac (Jul 6, 2011)

kioewen said:


> No, this doesn't usually work; not unless the guy is particularly attractive. And let's be honest, those who say that it _would_ work on them are likely imagining someone attractive introducing themselves this way, not someone ugly.
> 
> What few seem willingly to acknowledge is that much or even most of the degree of success of an approach depends more on the relative attractiveness of the guy doing the approaching than on the specifics of his approach.
> 
> ...





Good point.

My two oldest daughters both tell me that their friends are afraid of me -- apparently I'm big and scary -- so its probably a good thing I never tried to hit on women who hadn't already had a few drinks.


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## LillyBBBW (Jul 6, 2011)

kioewen said:


> No, this doesn't usually work; not unless the guy is particularly attractive. And let's be honest, those who say that it _would_ work on them are likely imagining someone attractive introducing themselves this way, not someone ugly.
> 
> What few seem willingly to acknowledge is that much or even most of the degree of success of an approach depends more on the relative attractiveness of the guy doing the approaching than on the specifics of his approach.
> 
> ...



This exactly. You really are taking a chance that the lady in question will find you attractive. Sometimes she will, sometimes she won't. You can't just assume that because you look like Brad Pitt she's going to go all aflutter either. She could be a lesbian. It's the chance you take.


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## olwen (Jul 6, 2011)

kioewen said:


> No, this doesn't usually work; not unless the guy is particularly attractive. And let's be honest, those who say that it _would_ work on them are likely imagining someone attractive introducing themselves this way, not someone ugly.
> 
> What few seem willingly to acknowledge is that much or even most of the degree of success of an approach depends more on the relative attractiveness of the guy doing the approaching than on the specifics of his approach.
> 
> ...



Way to pigeon hole women. Ugly is a relative term. If every guy assumes they are ugly then no, they won't get anywhere. Women like confidence (but not arrogance) more than anything. A guy who might not look like brad pitt, but who exudes confidence gets the girl. Look at woody allen. He's not the most handsome guy, but he does okay.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jul 6, 2011)

olwen said:


> A guy who might not look like brad pitt, but who exudes confidence gets the girl. Look at woody allen. He's not the most handsome guy, but he does okay.



I wonder what his $ecret i$? Seriously, all the posters who point out that tastes differ are absolutely right, BUT this does not negate the basic truth of kioewen's post. We react positively to people we find attractive, negatively to those we find unattractive, and the vast majority of people follow convention in deciding whom they find attractive. (This is why Dimensions exists, after all) So, in approaching a total stranger, what are the odds of your being shot down? I don't know, but I'd bet you have a better chance if you look like someone from a soft drink commercial.


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## olwen (Jul 6, 2011)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I wonder what his $ecret i$? Seriously, all the posters who point out that tastes differ are absolutely right, BUT this does not negate the basic truth of kioewen's post. We react positively to people we find attractive, negatively to those we find unattractive, and the vast majority of people follow convention in deciding whom they find attractive. (This is why Dimensions exists, after all) So, in approaching a total stranger, what are the odds of your being shot down? I don't know, but I'd bet you have a better chance if you look like someone from a soft drink commercial.



Sure, but the assumption of ugly = creepy is an oversimplification. Hot guys can be creepy too. How many times do the women participating in this thread have to say that creepy is creepy no matter who the person is or what he looks like? 

Some hot guy is not going to get a pass if he approaches by saying the most disgusting thing he can think of. If that were the case, not only would I be annoyed but I'd be apt to think he's an asshole for thinking he can just walk up to a random fat chick and say whatever nasty thing is on his mind AND think he could get away with it because he might be used to getting by on his looks. That's just as bad. An ugly guy might get shot down, but if approaches in a disarming manner it won't be because he was creepy, it would simply be because she wasn't attracted and she has every right to say, "Oh, I'm flattered, but I'm sorry you're not my type." Guys just gotta learn the difference between creepy and disarming.


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## jen68 (Jul 6, 2011)

I agree with you Penguin not everyone has the same taste. What I find attractive may not be what someone else finds attractive. Some women like the pretty boys who look like they belong in a soft drink commercial but some dont. I think the point that Alzison was making was not based on his looks but his approach. I have a problem with a person thinking that they can approach an individual (fat or otherwise) in a manner that may be deemed inappropriate and think that it will get them play. I understand that when one is out at a bar or club you can expect some people to be a little more forward but even that can get out of hand sometimes. On the other hand being at a book store and having a total stranger approach you with his fantasy about you is creepy!!! I think the original questioned implied was: Are fat chicks a magnet for creeps. My response to that is I think creeps are not prejudice they are equal opportunists. Fat or thin, women are all magnets for creeps.


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## Kibeth (Jul 10, 2011)

I admit, it does drive me mad when guys hit me on in a creepish way- Then again, I suppose I'm at fault, because I dont like being approached in public and being told some one finds me physically attractive. I don't know, its been a sort of joke my entire life so it often blows my mind to see some one or imagine some one who does find me sexy or hot (besides me..duh!).

Have you ever had the "friend" creep? That friend's friend who just creeps on you inappropriately?

I'm fat, not desperate. Okay, thaaaaaanks.


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## keystonegirl06 (Jul 12, 2011)

Kibeth said:


> I admit, it does drive me mad when guys hit me on in a creepish way- Then again, I suppose I'm at fault, because I dont like being approached in public and being told some one finds me physically attractive. I don't know, its been a sort of joke my entire life so it often blows my mind to see some one or imagine some one who does find me sexy or hot (besides me..duh!).
> 
> Have you ever had the "friend" creep? That friend's friend who just creeps on you inappropriately?
> 
> I'm fat, not desperate. Okay, thaaaaaanks.



I haven't had the friend creeper... but i did have one man that would not leave me alone on Okcupid... i was not interested in him and told him so but he continued to try and get at me.. so i burst out laughing at the I'm fat... not desperate... I think that some men assume just because I'm a big girl i'm gonna give in quick... i don't think sooooooooo


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## KittyKitten (Jul 12, 2011)

I never really had a problem with creepy guys. But these are terrible experiences that I've been reading here.


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## darlingzooloo (Jul 18, 2011)

I'm only 23, but I have become convinced through the last 20 years of my life that if you are female you will be creeped upon no matter your age, weight, height, race, etc. 
I was three when I was first initiated into this cycle of creepdom with a man exposing himself to me, and as I later found out, many other children in the church. In my teens I'd get hit on by men old enough to be my father when I was working, one guy kept grabbing at my hand and I was terrified because I just transformed into that violated 3 year old again. Now it seems I just get stared at and/or guys mutter things under their breath at me when I walk by, and I thank God that I have a hard time hearing muttering. O_O; 

And I know when I'm old and in a nursing home there'll likely be creepers there hitting on me and the nurses, as there are now in the Veterans Home my Mum-Mum is in. x_x


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## Dr. P Marshall (Jul 19, 2011)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Fortune favors the prepared mind. In a club atmosphere one is prepared for flirting; when one is inspecting a cabbage such attention may prove disconcerting. I suspect many women approached in what is usually not considered a social situation are not so much defensive as blindsided. There is also the omigod-I'm-not-wearing-makeup-and-there's-a-coffee-stain-on-my-tshirt reaction to be considered.



There's also the fact that in a bar, they will have time to have a conversation with you and in a club, you can dance, maybe talk, whatever. I don't know why any man would ever think I would go on a date with him after a very brief interaction, which is pretty much the only type you can have at the grocery store, etc. Also, when I'm running errands, I have things to do, and a man might just be wasting my precious time that I can't afford that day. 

I will say one thing about geography, if you live in a walkable city (as opposed to LA or something) or a city with a lot of public transport, you'll just automatically encounter more creeps. You also encounter more creeps in major cities in general and I say this having lived in three major cities and rural/suburban areas in my lifetime. I even have a creep tier system for public transportation, the creepiest creeps are on buses, the next level up is usually subway trains, then commuter trains.


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## ExpandingHorizons (Jul 19, 2011)

Never thought of that way. Creep? Not who I am.


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## Jess87 (Jul 19, 2011)

As the others have said women in general are magnets for creeps. Not that guys don't have their fair share. I've gotten to the point where it doesn't bother me, unless they attempt to touch or do touch or start doing the creepy following thing. That is never okay. 



Dr. P Marshall said:


> I even have a creep tier system for public transportation, the creepiest creeps are on buses, the next level up is usually subway trains, then commuter trains.



My experience with subways and commuter trains is very limited. We don't have them here and didn't have them anywhere else I've lived. However, the level of creepy I've experienced on buses would be hard to top. So, I'm inclined to believe this is 100% accurate. I've noticed that despite the creep level of buses I've encountered a lot of creepers while just walking. The followers are the worst.


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## Kibeth (Jul 20, 2011)

I thought of this thread the other day. I was in the mall, walking out, by myself and minding my own business when this group of 3 or 4 guys started yelling at me about my ass. I consider it sexual harassment. It was honestly rude and offensive. "Look at all that ass in those jeans" and "look at that ass!" directly behind me, and then making this disgusting "Mmmm" noises. Kind of like campbell's commercials. 

What should have been my response to this? I simply walked away and didnt say anything but a lot of people were like YOU SHOULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING BLAH. How would you have reacted? In a public place, alone against 3 or 4 men?


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## duraznos (Jul 20, 2011)

Kibeth said:


> I thought of this thread the other day. I was in the mall, walking out, by myself and minding my own business when this group of 3 or 4 guys started yelling at me about my ass. I consider it sexual harassment. It was honestly rude and offensive. "Look at all that ass in those jeans" and "look at that ass!" directly behind me, and then making this disgusting "Mmmm" noises. Kind of like campbell's commercials.
> 
> What should have been my response to this? I simply walked away and didnt say anything but a lot of people were like YOU SHOULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING BLAH. How would you have reacted? In a public place, alone against 3 or 4 men?



i would have done the same thing you did... i'd like to believe that i'd turn around and tell them off, but i'd probably be embarrassed and just want to get out of there ASAP. it's such a shame some people are so disrespectful.


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## Tracyarts (Jul 20, 2011)

" Have you ever had the "friend" creep? That friend's friend who just creeps on you inappropriately? "

Not exactly, but I've experienced the "boyfriend/husband" creep a few times. Where a female friend or acquaintence's significant other would creep on me, either openly or behind her back. That's a difficult situation to navigate. 

Tracy


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## butch (Jul 20, 2011)

olwen said:


> Sure, but the assumption of ugly = creepy is an oversimplification. Hot guys can be creepy too.



............. 

View attachment bundy-death_1779899c.jpg


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## Kibeth (Jul 21, 2011)

duraznos said:


> i would have done the same thing you did... i'd like to believe that i'd turn around and tell them off, but i'd probably be embarrassed and just want to get out of there ASAP. it's such a shame some people are so disrespectful.



Thank you, I was feeling a little doubtful of myself for a minute. :/ I wasn't so embarrassed as I was offended and annoyed I guess? Its done with for now but I felt seriously offended.

@Tracy
I have had that a few times as well. It is kind of weird. Its like..eeeeh. you're girlfriend _is sitting right there._ I just try to be as unattractive as humanly possible.


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## HeavyDuty24 (Jul 21, 2011)

although it's rare,there are creepy women out there too haha.LOL


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## Power_Metal_Kitsune (Jul 21, 2011)

PunkyGurly74 said:


> I think it is a combination of things, but, a lot what McBeth said..
> 
> I think we are viewed as the limping gazelle. And btw, sorry, that happened. Next time....explain you understand and knee him in the balls hehehehe
> 
> ...



I'm no limping gazelle. I'm the dragon that will set their ass on fire for being a douchetard.


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## Power_Metal_Kitsune (Jul 21, 2011)

Pitch said:


> If I look at my ex boyfriends (and maybe the girlfriends, too)? This is so true. SO true. Creepers, the lot of them.
> 
> However, I dont get any male attention in public save for the occasional staring-guy driving down the street in his car while I'm walking. It's terrible you get this brand of street harassment, by the way.
> 
> ...



And he's still your friend? He would have been gone the first time he spoke that way to me or around me. I have enough fat-girl drama. I don't need anyone else's thanks.


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## Power_Metal_Kitsune (Jul 21, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> i think it might just only seem that way. i have a lot of very handsome guy friends who are attracted to fat women but when they hit on them they get ignored because she tends to think its some kind of joke. IMO the only difference between the choices of fat women and average sized women are the expectations. they always ask me to hang out with them as fat girl bait so that other women my size can see that's what they actually like.



Sadly enough, many times it IS a joke when guys hit on us or they're looking for sex, money, or a place to flop at. So if your friends ARE sincere, they may have to understand why we're so skittish everytime men even say "boo" to us. And maybe having a woman hang out with them when they're "chick-hunting" isn't such a hot idea itself, because I know when I see a guy alone with a woman my size (16-18 misses), I assume that it's either his girlfriend, his sister, or his asexual friend that hopes to be more, despite her size. In other words, inaccessible. (Scenario one: TAKEN! Scenario two: Sorry to say, most men I meet tend to see big women as one of three things: sexless fat girl friend, easy prey, or a caregiver, and who needs that?) So I walk on by, to avoid rejection, scorn, or mockery. There it is, right there, why many big women have little to no use for men who even say they're pretty.


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## idontspeakespn (Jul 22, 2011)

Alzison said:


> So something kind of upsetting happened to me today and I was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience. I had a nice morning, brunch with friends, then went to read outside for a few hours. Eventually, I decided to take a walk and stopped at a nearby used bookstore. The place was very small, and I quickly moved to the back of the store to peruse the fiction section. Immediately after turning the corner of the far bookcase, I was face-to-face with a guy I recognized from the park where I had been reading. I was listening to music and started walking away, but he waved at me to take off my headphones. My thought was that I just wanted to get rid of the guy and do so as quickly and calmly as possible, so I stopped and asked him what he wanted. "I don't want to say this too loud, but I wanted to tell you what I was thinking. I was thinking of this story. I follow you here from the park. And then we have an intimate conversation and- do you get what I'm saying?" I said "well, you just said you followed me here, so I get that that is pretty damn creepy." "No, I'm just sharing this thought I had. It's like... it's like foreplay... I follow you here, we have this intimate conversation and then... 'dot dot dot.' Do you get what I'm saying?" "Yeah," I said, "and it's not gonna happen." He told me he had to "take a leak" and soon left the store and I went up to the front desk to tell them about the dude and warn them not to let him back inside. Pretty much immediately, I took off and got as far away from that neighborhood as I could. OK, I walked a few blocks to a hat store and tried to find refuge in the floppy bonnets. Still!
> 
> The following me made me feel pretty violated, not to mention the fact that he admitted it to me as some sort of seduction technique. And it got me thinking. This was a particularly disturbing and upsetting scenario but, truthfully, not a rare one. I've talked to thin friends who are amazed at the volume completely creepy things people say and do to me. It's more than just staring or winking, I've been followed off the train multiple times, passed notes, men have grabbed me, asked me to take them home with me (a serious request), tried to kiss me or ask me to show them my breasts, they call after me and get verbally abusive if I just walk away or try to ignore it. But really, what do these guys think they are going to accomplish by behaving like this? Do you think that coming after me in a subway station and following me up the stairs will lead to me running back to your place to sleep with you? I don't think I get hit on more than my skinny friends or because I'm some exceptionally hot piece, but this latest experience has me wondering if men feel like, because I'm fat, I'm more likely to be receptive to these completely inappropriate and disgusting advances. It's insulting on so many levels and, frankly, couldn't be further from the truth.
> 
> ...



I had this happen to me on a daily basis. It's gotten so bad that I just keep my head down when I walk down the street, earplugs kept firmly in my ear...otherwise men would just accost me every few hundred feet. Really not me being a pre-madonna or anything...this does happen. One of my friends asked me why I kept my head down, because it looks as if I don't like meeting people in the eye because of low self-esteem...I let her see what happened when I smiled, rose my head and looked people in the eye as they passed me...she got the point when I guy tried to motor-boat me in the street. Granted he was drunk and stumbling out of a pub we were passing, but she understood. I hate it with a passion and guys will be made to know my displeasure. I've only had one guy come up to me on the street that didn't make me feel like I was a deer in a hunter's range...but that's a whole other can of worms I can't get into.

As for what guys might think: I think some--not all, but some--guys might think PSWs are sluttier because we have no self-esteem and don't think we can get any better. Personally, I just like sex. I don't hide that fact. However, I don't just jump into bed with anybody, and even if I did, it doesn't mean I have low-esteem and think I can't get any better. It may be true that some fat chicks do sleep around because of self-esteem issues, but that's not all of us, and it really infuriates me that the rest of us are lumped into the 'plus-sized = easy' category.

Overall, I think that having random creepos come up to you in the park, or at a coffee shop or wherever it is you might be is just how it works when you're a BBW. Probably works that way for a lot of other women, BBW or not. It sucks it works that way, but there it is. Perception is usually 99% misleading. 

FYI...I'm new to the Dimensions community, and this was my first post. Hi!


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## J34 (Jul 25, 2011)

Tracyarts said:


> Not exactly, but I've experienced the "boyfriend/husband" creep a few times. Where a female friend or acquaintence's significant other would creep on me, either openly or behind her back. That's a difficult situation to navigate.
> 
> Tracy



I am a guy, and I have noticed this from men all the time.


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## lozonloz (Jul 26, 2011)

I think it's entirely possible that we just notice that creepy guys are creepy more because the majority of large women can become defensive when someone shows attraction (yes, its a generalisation, but go with me here).

Basically, my brother walks in and tells me "You know what? Girls like jerks." (No s**t Sherlock...). Apparently some guy he met at a training course has various opening lines in the vein of "Woah girl, get that sexy butt over here!" and asked my bro to try it, he did, he got many phone numbers.

I just think most girls who aren't conventionally attractive, when having that yelled at them by a total stranger, are more likely to be creeped out and offended than a regularly pretty girl. According to the success of this technique, it seems at least some of them go for it. BBW thinks "creep/jerk/idiot", other girl thinks "how rude! Is my butt really that cute?".

Yes, big generalisation, no, obviously it doesn't apply to everyone, or maybe even most girls. But it's a thought no?


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## KittyKitten (Jul 26, 2011)

Doesn't matter if you are fat or thin, there are so many misogynistic men out there it is not even funny. Creeps are creeps, doesn't matter the size of the woman. Most likely if he disrespects you as a fat woman, he doesn't really think very highly of women in general anyway. It sucks how women are made to feel wrong for having standards in a man.


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