# 'Diet or die,' worlds fattest woman is warned after hitting FIFTY STONE



## chapelhillmensch (Dec 9, 2010)

Have you seen this story?


'Diet or Die'

A woman believed to be the world's fattest at 50 stone (700lbs) is facing a battle to shed weight after being told by doctors she could die.

Terri Smith is confined to her bedroom in her Ohio home unable to move, stand or roll over by herself.

Suffering from severe headaches which doctors fear could stem from a brain problem, Terri urgently needs a brain scan - but is too big to fit inside an MRI machine.
Huge problem: Terri Smith, pictured in her bed with medication, is facing a battle to get fit so she can fit in an MRI machine

Huge problem: Terri Smith, pictured in her bed with medication, is facing a battle to lose weight so she can fit in an MRI machine

To undergo the scan and receive the life-saving treatment she may require, Terri is now embarking on a weight loss regime of exercise and healthy eating.

She relies on her husband Myron, 44, and oldest daughter Najah, 30, to do everything for her. 

The 49-year-old must be washed, fed and dressed on the bed and wears nappies which her daughter and husband change.

'My husband is my guardian angel,' said Terri.

'He's stuck by me through everything. Most men would have left a long time ago and who could blame them but Myron is a living saint.'

Terri was always large - at age seven she weighed almost eight stone (112lbs).

'My nickname at school was fatso,' she said. 'No one wanted me on their sports team and that didn't help the fat.

'We grew up on soul food and no one thought anything about it.
Devoted: Terri with loving husband Myron who changes her nappies

Devoted: Terri with loving husband Myron who changes her nappies

'That's just what people did where I'm from. We never watched what we ate at all and we didn't know what was healthy and what wasn't.'

By the age of 20 Terri weighed 18 stone (252lbs) but she remained active and held a job as a mental health care worker for 20 years.

'I used to help people wash, feed and dress themselves,' she said.

'Back then I never thought that the tables would turn and someone would be doing all that stuff for me.'

After marrying her husband in 1986 Terri was big but happy.

'I prayed for a man like Myron and he came to me,' she said 'He's kind, gentle and he loves me for who

'I am. Even now he tells me I'm pretty, that man is amazing.'

But she continued to eat the same diet and kept on growing, while her husband and daughter stayed slim. 

Terri, who suffers severe headaches, needs an MRI scan to check for a potential brain tumour but is too big to fit in any scanners or into the doors of a hospital clinic. 
Younger: Terri, left, with friends as she was growing up

Younger: Terri, left, with friends as she was growing up

She faces a race against time to lose weight in a bid to qualify for gastric surgery to save her life.

When Terri was 32 she developed severe arthritis in her knees and couldn't walk for more than a few steps.

She was given an electric wheelchair and the lack of exercise made the weight pile on.

'I used to walk everywhere and be on my feet at work but suddenly I was trapped,' she said.

As the years passed her weight ballooned until she could hardly stand. 

Then, after her doctor changed her diuretic medication, she gained a staggering 6.5 stone (91lb) in 30 days. She suddenly found herself bedbound and has been trapped for almost three years.

Dr. Dariush Saghafi said: "I have been seeing Terri for six months.

'Caring for someone of Terri's size is very difficult. It is very hard to move and transport her. Hospitals do not have equipment to hold someone of her girth.
Grandmother: Terri with her grandchildren Jurnee Weeams, eight, (right) and Najeir, seven

Grandmother: Terri with her grandchildren Jurnee Weeams, eight, (right) and Najeir, seven

'Terri needs an MRI but there are no machines in the region big enough to take her weight.

'We thought that it might be possible for Terri to have an MRI at the Cleveland Zoo in the machine used for the elephants and rhinos but the zoo does not have a licence for humans.

'We're hoping the Cleveland clinic can find an MRI for Terri.' 

Retrieved From http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1337077 on Dec. 9 2010

DIRECT LINK:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rri-Smith-told-Diet-die-hitting-50-STONE.html


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## The Orange Mage (Dec 9, 2010)

Aaaaaaand may I recommend that no one read the comments under those stories?

And no lurkers/creepers make any creepy statements about this woman, please.


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 9, 2010)

The Orange Mage said:


> And no lurkers/creepers make any creepy statements about this woman, please.


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## Jes (Dec 9, 2010)

chapelhillmensch said:


> Have you seen this story?
> 
> 
> 'Diet or Die'
> ...



What's your take on it?


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## Ned Sonntag (Dec 9, 2010)

]http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/3266346/The-worlds-fattest-woman-weighing-50-stone-starts-desperate-battle-to-lose-weight.html?OTC-RSS&ATTR=News Yipes just like Renee Williams:bow: she wants... oops that's another board. :doh:


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## mossystate (Dec 9, 2010)

She wants to walk? 

Let's hope she gets what she wants.

:bow:


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## Ned Sonntag (Dec 9, 2010)

mossystate said:


> She wants to walk?
> 
> Let's hope she gets what she wants.
> 
> :bow:


I was alluding:doh: to a certain Procedure that has its own Forum devoted and dedicated to its discussion.


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## chapelhillmensch (Dec 9, 2010)

Jes said:


> What's your take on it?





Being a Super-sized Man, it doesn't really make me as mad as it used too. What really bothers me is how many small-minded people read stories like that (or Obesity is like terrorism,something like that) and really just instantly hate us? 

There has always been diet industries,weight loss 'shops' etc. But there was never the actual feeling of total 'hatred' as I feel directed towards me (in my opinion). I know the way information is distributed is instant and far reaching but even so its weird. 

What the Hell ever happen to Fat & Jolly?






Daniel Lambert


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## mossystate (Dec 10, 2010)

Ned Sonntag said:


> I was alluding:doh: to a certain Procedure that has its own Forum devoted and dedicated to its discussion.



Yes, Ned, I know you like to do that , and I was simply taking your  and your :bow: and using them to say I hope she is successful with the decisions she makes for _her_ life. Since I don't know exactly what is happening with her health, I thought it might be best to just come down on the side of wishing her well. :bow: :happy:


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## furious styles (Dec 10, 2010)

this is just sensationalist journalistic swill, hardly worth posting or publishing for that matter

i wish her the best, i hope she makes a little money from allowing people to parade her struggle for their own gain


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## Angel (Dec 10, 2010)

When will it ever end?

or _more_ aptly 

When will it ever begin?



When will women like the woman in the article be thought of as humans first and foremost rather than as a circus attraction or as an oddity? The title of the article and the style in which the story was written isn't really about the plight the woman is facing. It's not much more than tabloid trash. The focus wasn't on telling of her needs; it was on sensationalizing her weight gain and producing the almighty condescending gasp! factor.


We have come to expect this kind of trash "journalism" from the less than up to par Springer-ish style "news" sources. We all know this kind of garbage exists. Why litter the streets here with it?


Seriously. 

Think about it.


Do we want to or wish to continue to dehumanize women of this size? Do we want to continue with and add to the 'make them look like a circus freak show' mentality? Do we want the sensationalization (whether it be to evoke condecension; or conversely, as with the FA train of thought, eroticism of the path that lead to the present health crisis) of facts to be what's most important rather than the individual's health and well being? If this were about a male with similar medical issues, would it have been posted here by a FFA?



When an FA reads such an article does the condecending sensationalism of a fat woman's weight gain or weight related health issues immediately and without any conscientious thought become _transposed_ to nothing more than an erotic fantasy? Does the thought of the woman's current health situation become subordinate to the erotic thoughts that revolve around her prior weight gain and her current limitations? How much of _that_ is it that drives or motivates one to quote such an article as the one above?


I guess that simply stating that a woman needs help in getting an MRI wouldn't get as much of a reaction or a certain kind of reaction. Ironically that goes for in the "news" as well as here, albeit the certain kind of reaction is quite different.


When will women like the woman in the article be thought of as humans first and foremost? 

When will it ever begin?


Maybe it's too much to hope that it could begin here of all places.


.


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## bigmac (Dec 10, 2010)

This woman's sad plight is a good example of why I have real difficulty with feeders. There is nothing erotic about the end point of extreme feederism.


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## bigjayne66 (Dec 10, 2010)

Please all remember Pauline, our esteemed member on this board is around this lady's size too,and faces a similar struggle in many ways,and I hope every single member on here offers her moral support whatever Pauline decides to do.
I am nearly 450lbs and I am trying hard not to get any larger,I don't want to be totally immobile,I would feel totally undignified...


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## Wild Zero (Dec 10, 2010)

bigmac said:


> This woman's sad plight is a good example of why I have real difficulty with feeders. There is nothing erotic about the end point of extreme feederism.



I missed the part of the article where Terri was actively gaining to fulfill an erotic need.


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## Jes (Dec 10, 2010)

Wild Zero said:


> I missed the part of the article where Terri was actively gaining to fulfill an erotic need.



I think the comment was an offshoot of his own thinking about the article, not the article itself. But I understand his thinking...the gaining mentality, carried to the extreme, frightens many people. Does this woman's current situation sound good to anyone? BigJayne may caution us to speak respectfully about this woman, and I certainly hope I am, but the whole 'you can still be very fat and healthy'/HAES rhetoric (espoused elsewhere) doesn't convince me in cases like hers.


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## ashmamma84 (Dec 10, 2010)

Jes said:


> I think the comment was an offshoot of his own thinking about the article, not the article itself. But I understand his thinking...the gaining mentality, carried to the extreme, frightens many people. Does this woman's current situation sound good to anyone? BigJayne may caution us to speak respectfully about this woman, and I certainly hope I am, *but the whole 'you can still be very fat and healthy'/HAES rhetoric (espoused elsewhere) doesn't convince me in cases like hers.*



I agree. This is why on another thread I stated fat people aren't taken as seriously by some people. The idea that someone who is 700 lbs can be in extraordinary health is a leap most people aren't willing to wrap their heads around because the examples shown are the exact opposite of that. I don't know that I truly believe in HAES rhetoric so much, just from what I've witnessed in my personal life and have talked about with other (much, much larger) women. At extreme weights, I think those who are in supreme health are rare and if they were shown maybe they could set a precedent in changing minds - in the medical community and lay people alike - about what it means to be super super fat.

ETA - I hope the woman gets the help she needs.


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## TraciJo67 (Dec 10, 2010)

I hate even seeing this posted here. Not the news item itself (though I could do without the sensationalist natuer) but the inevitable discussion that ensues. 

To me, it seems crystal clear that the only good response to a story like this is to simply wish the woman well and hope that she is able to find a path towards recovery so that she can once again do all of the things that most of us take for granted, like walk and look after her own personal hygiene. I hate seeing anything other than that. It just feeds into my own cynical streak about human nature.


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## Blackjack (Dec 10, 2010)

furious styles said:


> this is just sensationalist journalistic swill, hardly worth posting or publishing for that matter
> 
> i wish her the best, i hope she makes a little money from allowing people to parade her struggle for their own gain



I really don't understand why there's more commentary than just this (excepting several of the points that Angel makes, one of which I'll also adress). There's no reason to turn this into a debate on feedism or WLS.



Angel said:


> When an FA reads such an article does the condecending sensationalism of a fat woman's weight gain or weight related health issues immediately and without any conscientious thought become _transposed_ to nothing more than an erotic fantasy? *Does the thought of the woman's current health situation become subordinate to the erotic thoughts that revolve around her prior weight gain and her current limitations?* How much of _that_ is it that drives or motivates one to quote such an article as the one above?




I just want to say that I don't believe that this is often the case, and that people who do place such eroticism over sympathy and conscience are less common than might be percieved based on the creepers and other vocal idiots.


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## superodalisque (Dec 10, 2010)

Angel said:


> When will it ever end?
> 
> or _more_ aptly
> 
> ...



great question. yes i think it will end but we have to make a point of helping to end it. i think you made a great observation here. but i'd also want to say that its going to help us more also when we cease internalizing the circus freak on the whole and interacting with the world as such and always assuming everyone will always have to think of us that way whether they really do or not. searching out stories like these is a problem as well. we tend to post more stuff like this than positive things we find. we should probably be writing our own articles about the woman with sensitive approaches that might influence the rest if media and submitting them. people are beginning to do that already and i see it beginning to catch. i know we have a lot of experienced writers here and i hope we encourage them in doing that. some of them can even add their own voice to the struggle in intimate ways if they are comfortable with that. i have heard that the reaction to the Marie Claire article has had quite a bit of unexpected influence in the industry. maybe bombarding this comment page would be a good idea to start with. we need to be very careful about looking at ourselves through the eyes of others and only taking offense instead of action. we need to be very careful about always exposing ourselves to the sensational and participating in a circus in certain ways that we say we don't want to be a part of.

the truth is this lady might have to lose weight. it happens. and, she probably really needs the money from the media right now poor thing. thats understandable. i think the last focus shouldn't be on FAs and whether they think this is sexy. it doesn't really matter. i doubt she cares right now as she struggles at the edge of life or death. it should be about her and what she needs. she probably isn't feeling very sexual right now anyway. focusing on that isn't too much different from the sensationalism thats only interested in being disgusted with her size. the only difference is we placed the focus on the admiration of her size and then judging that instead.

it might be more constructive to replace this as a chance to make FAs feel bad or guilty with viewing them as a resource? maybe the question should be are there some FA engineers out there who could rig up a floating MRI machine? that way maybe she could get the help she, and others later, needed before she is destroyed by some kind of brain anomaly. losing weight takes time she may not have. WLS might kill her in her state for all anyone knows. what about solving the problems she has, illnesses, instead of just worrying about her size and who likes it and who doesn't. really who should care at this point. she is a human being and she is ill. the only person who needs to like her size or dislike it is her. you are right. maybe all of us, the press, the medical profession, the admirers friends, family and well wishers need to focus on the truly important thing which is keeping her alive now instead of always worrying about us our fat angst or our fat desires.


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## Fat Brian (Dec 10, 2010)

Speaking as an FA there is nothing arousing about this situation. There is no "ZOMG !!!!!!! 700 pndz uv fahtz !!!!" reaction, and one is not proper here. She is sick and needs to do something about it. There are open MRI machines but there are still good only up to 500 pounds or so.


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## bigmac (Dec 10, 2010)

TraciJo67 said:


> I hate even seeing this posted here. Not the news item itself (though I could do without the sensationalist natuer) but the inevitable discussion that ensues.
> 
> To me, it seems crystal clear that the only good response to a story like this is to simply wish the woman well and hope that she is able to find a path towards recovery so that she can once again do all of the things that most of us take for granted, like walk and look after her own personal hygiene. I hate seeing anything other than that. It just feeds into my own cynical streak about human nature.



Yes!!! I really hope she's successful in regaining her life. The only reason I brought up the feeder issue is because Dimensions is full of posts ranting about how great and sexy it is, or would be, to be this huge. The article is a great reality check.


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 10, 2010)

bigmac said:


> Yes!!! I really hope she's successful in regaining her life. The only reason I brought up the feeder issue is because Dimensions is full of posts ranting about how great and sexy it is, or would be, to be this huge. The article is a great reality check.


ten characters


Blackjack said:


> There's no reason to turn this into a debate on feedism or WLS.


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## Tracyarts (Dec 10, 2010)

" There are open MRI machines but there are still good only up to 500 pounds or so. "

They are extremely rare. 

When I was dealing with a major health crisis, there was not a single imaging clinic with either an open MRI machine or catscan machine with a table weight limit exceeding 350 pounds in the greater Houston area that accepted my insurance. There were "standing" MRIs that could accomodate me physically, but since I have a back problem that makes it impossible to stand for the length of time required to perform the MRI, I was quite simply shit out of luck. 

I would love to know if there is actually a list somewhere of high-capacity imaging machines so I can try and find one located in an imaging center that accepts my insurance just in case I ever have need of one again.

Tracy


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## superodalisque (Dec 10, 2010)

Tracyarts said:


> " There are open MRI machines but there are still good only up to 500 pounds or so. "
> 
> They are extremely rare.
> 
> ...



the key here might be as you said accepting your insurance. there are a lot of open and high capacity imaging machines where i am here in atlanta. and i know houston has a really high population of fat people unlike here where the city population is listed as one of the "fittest" cities--their word not mine. thats another area advocates might want to work on--making sure insurance companies give fat people access to the technology they need.

i think your idea of having a list of high capacity MRI machines for every city we can is a great one.


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## Heyyou (Dec 10, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> the key here might be as you said accepting your insurance. there are a lot of open and high capacity imaging machines where i am here in atlanta. and i know houston has a really high population of fat people unlike here where the city population is listed as one of the "fittest" cities--their word not mine. thats another area advocates might want to work on--making sure insurance companies give fat people access to the technology they need.
> 
> i think your idea of having a list of high capacity MRI machines for every city we can is a great one.



A lot like Philadelphia. The articles talking about "Fattest cities" talk about the availability of Fattening Foods. And that is a real word. And in Philly, the "Philly Cheese Steak" comes to mind. I never ate. Too much. I eat big burgers sometimes, sure. But that? Coronary.

As to the woman, it sounds as if her weight is really pushing the envelope of health. And i have no problem saying that it if she were to pass, she was warned about her size affecting her body's ability to perform its functions. Weight CAN kill, if extreme. It really affects other things.

Let the Paragraphs come.


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## Fat Brian (Dec 10, 2010)

Tracyarts said:


> I would love to know if there is actually a list somewhere of high-capacity imaging machines so I can try and find one located in an imaging center that accepts my insurance just in case I ever have need of one again.Tracy



That would be interesting if someone had compiled such a list. I know there are a few in my area, my mother-in-law needed one a few years ago.


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## mossystate (Dec 10, 2010)

Heyyou said:


> A lot like Philadelphia. The articles talking about "Fattest cities" talk about the availability of Fattening Foods. And that is a real word. And in Philly, the "Philly Cheese Steak" comes to mind. I never ate. Too much. I eat big burgers sometimes, sure. But that? Coronary.
> 
> As to the woman, it sounds as if her weight is really pushing the envelope of health. And i have no problem saying that it if she were to pass, she was warned about her size affecting her body's ability to perform its functions. Weight CAN kill, if extreme. It really affects other things.
> 
> Let the Paragraphs come.



OK.

You sure are scolding when it comes to food and weight...yet I have read some of your other posts out here. Must be difficult to know _just_ when to stop the ^5's , before you whip out the " I told you so!!!! ".


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## Blackjack (Dec 10, 2010)

bigmac said:


> Yes!!! I really hope she's successful in regaining her life. The only reason I brought up the feeder issue is because Dimensions is full of posts ranting about how great and sexy it is, or would be, to be this huge. The article is a great reality check.



The only reason you brought up the feeder "issue" is because you either want to flog your own dead horse again, or because you feel like trolling the thread- both of which would fit your M.O. based on your posts in HP. It's childish either way.


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## bigmac (Dec 11, 2010)

Heyyou said:


> ... And i have no problem saying that it if she were to pass, she was warned about her size affecting her body's ability to perform its functions. ...
> 
> Let the Paragraphs come.



OK this has got to be one of the most obnoxious sentences ever posted here.

I don't think this lady needs any reminding of how her weight is affecting her health. There seems to be a sort of Calvinist enjoyment in the suffering of those deemed less worthy in your words.

What this lady needs is a constructive diagnosis and help. Was she encouraged to eat by a feeder, or is she a food addict, or was she traumatized and sought refuge in food -- or some combination? If she's ever going to be successful in loosing enough weight to regain her mobility she's going to have to figure out why it is she ate herself to 700 pounds. She may need a good therapist more than an MRI.


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## Dr. P Marshall (Dec 11, 2010)

Wow, there's a lot going on in this thread. Here are my thoughts, concisely for a change.

1) I feel terrible for this woman's plight, but I agree with Angel that this article is hardly raising awareness and is more interested in exploitation.

2) I agree with Ashmamma and Jes that obviously HAES is not always true. And as an FFA, I still don't understand why some members of the fat admiring community have such a hard time admitting that. 

3) I agree with blackjack that many, many F/FAs do not look at this and think of sex at all. A lot of us are perfectly normal, compassionate folks.

4) I wish I could tell Angel that an FFA would never post something like this, but there have been threads about the world's heaviest man on our board and sadly.....well, it's not only men who post inappropriate comments sometimes. 

5) I do think that the general public needs to stop being so effing judgmental about why someone is ill/in need of help/etc and just have some sense of decency. I get so sick of this blame game for everyone who is fat or comes down with certain cancers or anything else. We all do things that put ourselves, our lives and our well being at risk. What ever happened to sympathy? 

6) I like Orange Mage's quote in his sig.

7) OK, I have to say this....Ned Sonntag....what the hell is wrong with you? Seriously? You want this placed on the forum whose very existence obviously upsets you since you can't even say it by name? I don't know why the OP posted this or posted it here, but he's a SSBHM and he must have had a reason to want to discuss this on the main board. Sorry if reality offends you buddy. Geez. I never could tell if you were one of the nice guys or not because honestly I can't make sense of 80% of what you ever say, but really, stop being the WLS talk police. That wasn't what this was about.

8)bigmac - What the hell is wrong with you? Seriously? I get the point about extremes of feedism, I do, but this woman has already been put on display enough without you making assumptions about her personal life or using this as another platform to attack feeders. And once again can I point out that not all feeders are sociopaths and not all sociopaths are feeders. Thanks.:bow: Between you, heyyou and the comments on the original article there's enough self-righteousness going on here to last a couple decades. I think we can all go on posting hiatus until 2030.:doh:


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## Aswani (Dec 11, 2010)

If this woman were to come here and rely on this board for help, she'd probably be dead in a matter of months. If she relies on our society for help, she'll be dead even quicker.

This woman will have to fight this fight on her own and try her best to make the right decisions. And I wish her luck.


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## The Orange Mage (Dec 11, 2010)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> 2) I agree with Ashmamma and Jes that obviously HAES is not always true. And as an FFA, I still don't understand why some members of the fat admiring community have such a hard time admitting that.



I think it's a reluctance to deal with the ramifications of what they find attractive not being feasible, and whatever brand FA guilt comes along with that.

I know HAES is a load of poo. It's sure possible to be healthy at some very large sizes depending on the individual, but it's different for everybody. It should be HAYS (Health At _Your_ Size), as in the size that is right for YOU.


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## superodalisque (Dec 11, 2010)

Aswani said:


> If this woman were to come here and rely on this board for help, she'd probably be dead in a matter of months. If she relies on our society for help, she'll be dead even quicker.
> 
> This woman will have to fight this fight on her own and try her best to make the right decisions. And I wish her luck.



sad to say though, i think you need to reverse that. practically speaking the fat hating society at large, as in most cases, are probably doing a lot more for her now than her own community thats supposed to understand her. we can talk all we want. we can get whatever emotional payoff we want when we want to point out the lack of fat p.c.. but, until the people who understand start mobilizing to do something practical for people we know are suffering maybe we have no right to point any fingers at anyone at all. as soon as similar people have asked for help from the community they start getting the same blame game, if not worse, than they get on the outside.

many people in the community don't want to hear talk from people in bad shape and needing help. they often see them as downers. when they do as for help they suddenly become as disgusting to some in the community as they are to outsiders. i've seen them either get blasted for being a feedee or for not seeming erotically viable anymore. fat is cool with a lot of people until it asks something of them. then suddenly its no one's responsibility and everybody is out for themselves. before that its all fun and sexy time that a lot of people want a piece of. when fat is tough its either made invisible or its irritating. you're not even supposed to discuss what to do in case something does happen or how to prevent something or be careful of yourself because of the pretense a lot want to live under that nothing can ever or will ever happen to them. so i think its not exactly fair to blame outsiders who don't understand everything when even the people who do don't do much or are even that supportive or protective when it comes to a fat person in trouble with their health.

she shouldn't have to fight on her own or rely on luck. she should have help from people who understand.


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## superodalisque (Dec 11, 2010)

I was reading this study in Obesity: A Research Journal about the availability of high weight capacity MRI:

http://www.nature.com/oby/journal/v16/n11/full/oby2008410a.html 

as you can see some of the general public does care about the issue.

this article brings up an interesting idea i know that i had never thought of and that is using veterinary MRI machines. 

"For animal facilities, we attempted to contact veterinary personnel (veterinary technicians or veterinarians) at all zoos and veterinary schools. This survey asked whether the facility had a large animal CT or MRI equipment, whether they had ever imaged human patients, whether they would consider imaging human patients, and whether they had policies in place regarding this issue....

Large capacity CT scanners and open MRIs are manufactured (1), but our data suggest that they have not yet been adopted by most hospitals. Utilization of oversized, large animal equipment at zoos or veterinary hospitals has been cited in the popular media as a potential alternative (13,14). However, our data suggest that this is not a feasible option for most patients. Only two zoos reported having large animal CT scanners and neither would consider imaging human patients. Although more than half of veterinary hospitals had large capacity CT scanners, most have formal policies that prohibit imaging human patients. Informally, many animal facilities reported that they receive regular phone calls regarding their capacity and willingness to image human patients, despite efforts to correct the misconception that this practice is usually permitted (J. Pond, personal communication). "


i know there is an important primate center in my area. i have no idea what the machinery for horses or cows are like. i was also surprised to think of aquariums as a source (okay no whale jokes. i wonder if anyone has thought of that for this woman? it looks as if right now most veterinary schools etc... won't consider scanning humans. i wonder what it would take to change that? that could probably solve a lot of problems for a lot of people.

also, i had never thought of the fact that its not only the size but the actual weight of the individual that could affect the machinery. so even if its an open MRI maybe there could still be problems taking someone if there are machine parts underneath them that could be affected.


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## Russell Williams (Dec 11, 2010)

There is, of course, the obvious thing. If someone is immobile, then someone else is purchasing, transporting, cooking if needed, the food that the immobile person is eating.

I would think that if a person who is immobile is serious about losing weight. All they need to do is make sure that the people who are providing them with food provide less of.

If a person is truly immobile, no matter how strong the urge is to get up in the middle of the night and go raid the ice box, they are not going to do it.

But, which part of love is most importan?. One side of a person's mind might be saying, because I love her I'm going to deprive her of food, even if she yells at me about it.

The other side might be, "it is her choice, and I love her, so I will do as she asks,"

Which is the better type of love, people can debate about.


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## HereticFA (Dec 11, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> it looks as if right now most veterinary schools etc... won't consider scanning humans. i wonder what it would take to change that? that could probably solve a lot of problems for a lot of people.


The fix isn't to require access to the veterinary machines. That would open up multiple cans of worms.

The real fix would be to prohibit bariatric surgeons from performing WLS on patients they can't image with an MRI within 20 miles of their practice. There would be a sudden surge of large aperture MRIs across the US in appropriate hospital settings. That would bypass the hygiene, crash cart, ER, liability, QOS, billing, and general patient care issues you'd encounter with the veterinary based systems.

One issue that seems to get overlooked with the desire for large aperture MRIs: lower resolution. The larger machines will produce less distinct images which will hinder reading by the radiologist. Mediocre imaging is still far better than being opened up, it's just may be inadequate for some health issues.


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## Aswani (Dec 11, 2010)

Russell Williams said:


> But, which part of love is most importan?. One side of a person's mind might be saying, because I love her I'm going to deprive her of food, even if she yells at me about it.
> 
> The other side might be, "it is her choice, and I love her, so I will do as she asks,"
> 
> Which is the better type of love, people can debate about.



Russell, from my observation, you've chosen the latter with your present and x-wives and even your own daughter and the results have proven to be fairly disastrous on their health. The very, very bottom line question that we have to ask ourself is, do we want this person to be with us for as long as humanly possible, or do we want them to enjoy the edible pleasures of life, but with a limited and less comfortable visit on this planet?

As you've pointed out, someone is enabling this woman--and chances are it's probably someone that loves them. I'm praying the enabling --or actually, the encouragenet--didn't come from a virtual stranger she met on a website.


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## Blackjack (Dec 11, 2010)

Aswani said:


> As you've pointed out, someone is enabling this woman--and chances are it's probably someone that loves them. I'm praying the enabling --or actually, the encouragenet--didn't come from a virtual stranger she met on a website.



Surely it has nothing to do with the severe arthritis that she developed, or the downturn in exercise as a result of that, or the 90 pounds that she put on in a month due to a new medication.

Yes, eating habits (ones which she'd had for all of her life, apparently) are a significant factor in why she got as big as she is, and why she's been fat her entire life; but this isn't something that can be pinned on a single enabler or "encourager" like you're trying to do, instead being more of a cultural issue with lasting- and here, extremely dangerous- consequences.

And trying to say that it might be the result of "a virtual stranger" is not only absurd- especially given the evidence buried under the sensationalist nonsense in the article- it's almost insulting.


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## superodalisque (Dec 11, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> Surely it has nothing to do with the severe arthritis that she developed, or the downturn in exercise as a result of that, or the 90 pounds that she put on in a month due to a new medication.
> 
> Yes, eating habits (ones which she'd had for all of her life, apparently) are a significant factor in why she got as big as she is, and why she's been fat her entire life; but this isn't something that can be pinned on a single enabler or "encourager" like you're trying to do, instead being more of a cultural issue with lasting- and here, extremely dangerous- consequences.
> 
> And trying to say that it might be the result of "a virtual stranger" is not only absurd- especially given the evidence buried under the sensationalist nonsense in the article- it's almost insulting.



unfortunately it probably CAN be pinned on her and family and for sure since she can't walk to get her own food. arthritis and medications may have led to her immobility but excess calories are what actually cause her to be fat. whether she is hungry because of meds or not or mobile its the calories that actually make her fat. the people involved ARE enabling her at this time if they are still bringing her large amounts of high calorie foods. there is no way around that.

a lot of black people have the diet and genetics she has had her entire life and haven't ended up in her situation. its not fair to blame it on a cultural lifestyle alone that many people have as though its a racial short coming. its a situation where she individually had a snowball effect of biology, the influence meds on her appetite and metabolism and her personal and family environment and habits. she has a food addiction and her family , though lovingly, have pandered to that addiction. they didn't mean to but they have. she is a food dependent and they are feeding her many more calories than she needs to live. whether anyone thinks being fat or gaining is acceptable or healthy for other people or not is not really an issue here. what is the issue is whether her family and relations are subtracting from her life span. right now at least we know that indirectly they are. 

the previous posters have a right to be concerned and point out the dangers of gaining to extreme for any reason no matter who does it. just because there are people who know how to moderate themselves or have people around them who will it doesn't mean everyone will. no one can assume anything about this particular case without knowing. she might just have an outside enabler. she might not. either view is valid. a lot of married people have secrets. i'm sure there are a lot of people who can speak to that here. she has just as much of an ability to have access to these kinds of sites as the rest of us do and she might have for all we know. we also know there are those whose fantasies are out of control especially when the person is far away and not exactly real to them. so what the earlier posters were positing is not totally out of the question at all. there is something kind of bothersome to me in the idea that she is some poor ignorant black woman who can't get on the net like the rest of us have and got fat from bad cultural habits and poverty. its just as bothersome to me as assuming that the central reason for her bad health is her weight. 

what matters most though is that she is endangered now and her weight has become an issue for her. someone besides the addict has to be accountable at this point since she can't be fully accountable for herself right now. if someone is a drug addict it doesn't make a difference if family, friends or a total outsider brings the drug that perhaps does not kill them but causes dangerous complications for the person. whoever it is has to stop since the person who is addicted feels they no longer have the choice or control to be able to protect themselves.


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## superodalisque (Dec 11, 2010)

HereticFA said:


> The fix isn't to require access to the veterinary machines. That would open up multiple cans of worms.
> 
> The real fix would be to prohibit bariatric surgeons from performing WLS on patients they can't image with an MRI within 20 miles of their practice. There would be a sudden surge of large aperture MRIs across the US in appropriate hospital settings. That would bypass the hygiene, crash cart, ER, liability, QOS, billing, and general patient care issues you'd encounter with the veterinary based systems.
> 
> One issue that seems to get overlooked with the desire for large aperture MRIs: lower resolution. The larger machines will produce less distinct images which will hinder reading by the radiologist. Mediocre imaging is still far better than being opened up, it's just may be inadequate for some health issues.




that might just work since there are mega bucks in the bariatric industry. you'd think they'd be required to have the appropriate equipment, knowing especially the multiple kinds of complications that can come up for their patients. if they aren't able to make that business investment maybe they should not be allowed to do bariatrics since they don't have the proper tools to look after their special patients.


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## chapelhillmensch (Dec 11, 2010)

_OK, I have to say this....Ned Sonntag....what the hell is wrong with you? Seriously? You want this placed on the forum whose very existence obviously upsets you since you can't even say it by name? I don't know why the OP posted this or posted it here, but he's a SSBHM and he must have had a reason to want to discuss this on the main board. Sorry if reality offends you buddy. Geez. I never could tell if you were one of the nice guys or not because honestly I can't make sense of 80% of what you ever say, but really, stop being the WLS talk police. That wasn't what this was about.
*Originally Posted by Dr. P Marshall on this thread post #30*_


Since I am the original poster,I can comment on the reason I did. I knew of course that is was a "sensational" story. 

Like the quote above states, I am a SSBHM & it is stories like this that are coming at the Fat community with a lot of frequency lately. I placed this topic on the main board because it is size related,it is a current topic about weight. I do however feel that when I hear a thin person say just ignore stories like that, yadyayda it rings hollow. I read these as a Fat person trying to learn from them,at least make a feeble attempt in my mind at least to try understand such dislike directed towards Fat people. A lot people including FA's would benefit from the old adage 'walk a mile in my shoes'. 

I _*did not*_ intend for this to be turned into a Pro-Feedee Anti-Feedee debate. We have other boards here for that. There is nothing at all that brings up feeding in the story. So you are drawing conclusions based on your own feelings.

The story is what it is. I am actually very happy for her that in fact of what seems like a lot of difficulty,she seems to have a wonderful husband and family. Fat or skinny that is all we can hope for. For people to love them and accept us no matter what.

I will ask again though, What ever happened to being Fat & Jolly?


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## superodalisque (Dec 11, 2010)

Aswani said:


> Russell, from my observation, you've chosen the latter with your present and x-wives and even your own daughter and the results have proven to be fairly disastrous on their health. The very, very bottom line question that we have to ask ourself is, do we want this person to be with us for as long as humanly possible, or do we want them to enjoy the edible pleasures of life, but with a limited and less comfortable visit on this planet?
> 
> As you've pointed out, someone is enabling this woman--and chances are it's probably someone that loves them. I'm praying the enabling --or actually, the encouragenet--didn't come from a virtual stranger she met on a website.



unfortunately it most often is someone who loves them. i think its easier to rationalize since its just food. if it were heroin or something i think they would be much less likely to be able to fall into the habit and the mindset of enabling a fat person since food seems so harmless on its own. but often even the horror of heroin addiction etc... does not stop people from bringing things to the addict out of love. thats the real problem with enablers. they help to reason out for the addict their addiction and they are the one person who actually agrees with them and supports the habit. its another reason why the addict can't admit to themselves that they have a big problem and get the help--because someone else makes it seem ok.


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## mossystate (Dec 11, 2010)

chapelhillmensch said:


> I will ask again though, What ever happened to being Fat & Jolly?



Fat and jolly...gross and weak...same ugly coin.

Don't fence me in.


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## bigmac (Dec 11, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> Surely it has nothing to do with the severe arthritis that she developed, or the downturn in exercise as a result of that, or the 90 pounds that she put on in a month due to a new medication.



If its anything like my wife's joint problems its a result not cause of her weight gain. And and gaining 90 pounds of fat in a month is physiologically impossible -- if it actually happened its was extreme water retention or congestive heart failure (both require immediate medical attention).




Blackjack said:


> Yes, eating habits (ones which she'd had for all of her life, apparently) are a significant factor in why she got as big as she is, and why she's been fat her entire life; but this isn't something that can be pinned on a single enabler or "encourager" like you're trying to do, instead being more of a cultural issue with lasting- and here, extremely dangerous- consequences.



I'm not buying the she's always been big argument. The photo of this lady when she was young shows her to be moderately fat -- but nothing out of the ordinary range of variation. My wife was similar and had a similar trajectory -- she was a chubby but athletic teenager (apx. 170lbs @ 15) who ate herself to over 500 pounds by the time she was 30. She was the victim of abuse and from her late teen through her twenties a food addict. She didn't have a feeder other than loneliness (as she jokes now "chocolate cake never let her down"). The fact she was predisposed to being fat may have been responsible for her hitting 500 pounds rather than just 300 or 350 but the predominant reason for her extreme weight gain as a young adult was her pathological eating.

I guess my point is that it is very possible to have a toxic relationship with food and that this relationship usually has some underlying cause that needs to be diagnosed (at least informally). People in this community need to realize that not all eating is good.

FYI -- my wife got a handle on her eating and is now about 330 pounds. She regrets the damage her eating and subsequent botched WLS did to her body (her knees are shot and her digestive tract butchered). She's basically happy with her weight now -- a weight that, ironically, may well be where she would have ended up naturally.


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## Aswani (Dec 11, 2010)

Superodalisque, if you keep up these perfectly logical and just-plain smart posts I'm going to have to nominate you as president of NAAFA. In the meantime I'll just rep you.


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## Larry G (Dec 11, 2010)

bigmac said:


> And and gaining 90 pounds of fat in a month is physiologically impossible -- if it actually happened its was extreme water retention or congestive heart failure (both require immediate medical attention).



Right, but in my case I gained 110 lbs in the course of a year! as a result of side effects from ibuprofen (an NSAID), due to arthritis pain, which of course have been helped by weight loss but for the medications preventing it. I have since lost about 80 lbs of that regain.

Did you see the table of her meds? I'm willing to bet the lions share of the recent weight gain is due to meds, especially in her legs. The rest of it (about 400 lbs) is probably due to the eating. Her husband and children look pretty normal sized. Do they not live in the same house? And, she, herself, from the hips upward looks within the bounds of normal adiposeness. It's only in her hips and legs that they have ballooned in size, and I'm willing to bet the majority is water retention.

I had lost from 448 to 237 but gained back to 351 while on ibuprofen. I was gaining about 3 lbs per day on average. It would have been far worse, if I had not tried to avoid it by fasting and dieting. Thankfully, I figured it out and got off of that. 

I'm not saying you aren't right. It's just that medications can play a HUGE role in people predisposed to obesity and water retention.

I believe most of it in her case is water, but no one ever says: "Geez, you are big, but it's ok, I know it's only water". The prejudice and insults fly just the same.

Larry


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## Jon Blaze (Dec 11, 2010)

The Orange Mage said:


> I think it's a reluctance to deal with the ramifications of what they find attractive not being feasible, and whatever brand FA guilt comes along with that.
> 
> I know HAES is a load of poo. It's sure possible to be healthy at some very large sizes depending on the individual, but it's different for everybody. It should be HAYS (Health At _Your_ Size), as in the size that is right for YOU.



That's what it is.
HAES implies you. It's not "Health at ANY size." Everybody. Everyone. A lot of people don't understand that. It's based on the notion that doing things for your body is beneficial to YOU. Not that it's fine for me to be 130 pounds or 800 at 5'11." Is it fine for you? How the hell am I suppose I know? I'm not you. You aren't me.


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## butch (Dec 11, 2010)

I miss a world with more empathy. More joy, less pain. Greater tolerance, less division. More 'us,' less 'them'.

Just saying. And I may keep on saying it every time we get another one of these threads, where whatever fat axe we have to grind we use some innocent person's life as meat for the grist mill, and I get forced to use too many mixed metaphors.


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## TraciJo67 (Dec 11, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> Surely it has nothing to do with the severe arthritis that she developed, or the downturn in exercise as a result of that, or the 90 pounds that she put on in a month due to a new medication.
> 
> Yes, eating habits (ones which she'd had for all of her life, apparently) are a significant factor in why she got as big as she is, and why she's been fat her entire life; but this isn't something that can be pinned on a single enabler or "encourager" like you're trying to do, instead being more of a cultural issue with lasting- and here, extremely dangerous- consequences.
> 
> And trying to say that it might be the result of "a virtual stranger" is not only absurd- especially given the evidence buried under the sensationalist nonsense in the article- it's almost insulting.


 
I think that Russell had a different kind of point than simply laying all of the blame on enablers. Hopefully, he will chime in and clarify. But I viewed what he read more as: What does a caring family do in a situation where the person cannot choose to stroll to the refrigerator and fix his/her own meals? He has a point, and one that I hope would be explored compassionately. The woman quoted in the article wasn't, at some point, capable of continuing to eat massive quantities of food without the assistance of other people. Although I've never faced that situation, I have been placed in the position of knowing that the things that my bedridden father asked for -- begged for, in fact -- weren't in his best interest to have. I wish I could say that I never wavered, but the truth is that more often than not, I would fetch him that extra glass of water, one more pain pill, or a few more sugar-free cookies (his issue wasn't weight; it was that his weak, compromised body couldn't handle beverages that weren't thickened to the consistency of pudding and he couldn't process the extra calories or filter the drugs efficiently). I did it because I loved him, couldn't bear to see him beg, and needed to weigh the heavy knowledge that such action could harm him against his wishes that he be more comfortable. I can readily understand that the woman quoted in the OP's article, at this point in her life, probably feels that a reasonable amount of calories are starvation rations. So what does her loving family do? I can imagine that there may be people right here, reading this thread, who are faced with similar situations. 

I don't know the answer, aside from the obvious (stop feeding her anything other than a medically supervised diet), but then I also know what it feels like to be with someone you love, someone who is sick and in pain and helpless, begging you to provide him/her with something that would bring temporary relief from the suffering. There is no easy response to that.


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## bigmac (Dec 11, 2010)

The Orange Mage said:


> I know HAES is a load of poo. It's sure possible to be healthy at some very large sizes depending on the individual, but it's different for everybody. It should be HAYS (Health At _Your_ Size), as in the size that is right for YOU.



Unfortunately a lot of people are presently not at a size that's right for them. If the HAES crowd can encourage these people to eat a little better and exercise a little more TODAY at the the size they ARE TODAY then I'm in their camp.

A 700 pound person doesn't need anyone to tell them how limited their life is or how unhealthy they are -- they need people to accept them and encourage positive action. Loved ones need to provide good food and encourage whatever exercise is possible -- TODAY. If the HAES crowd supports this I support them.


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## Fat Brian (Dec 11, 2010)

There is a point where HAES breaks down. If you can't walk its hard to be healthy for long. I think the main message of HAES is that anyone can improve their health through healthy choices and exercise, even if huge weight loss isn't possible. At a certain point some people give up on activity if the goal is something they can never attain, but by giving them a more reasonable goal they will begin to try again.


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## chapelhillmensch (Dec 11, 2010)

mossystate said:


> Fat and jolly...gross and weak...same ugly coin.
> 
> Don't fence me in.




Well put 

In fact I won't fence you in but turn you lose and set you free somewhere in the middle of Montana.



(Merle Haggard is terribly underrated)


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## Russell Williams (Dec 11, 2010)

Aswani said:


> Russell, from my observation, you've chosen the latter with your present and x-wives and even your own daughter and the results have proven to be fairly disastrous on their health. The very, very bottom line question that we have to ask ourself is, do we want this person to be with us for as long as humanly possible, or do we want them to enjoy the edible pleasures of life, but with a limited and less comfortable visit on this planet?
> 
> As you've pointed out, someone is enabling this woman--and chances are it's probably someone that loves them. I'm praying the enabling --or actually, the encouragenet--didn't come from a virtual stranger she met on a website.





And your solution would have been to do what? If you had seen Peggy Williams at a convention going back for seconds, what would you have done? Stopped her from getting to the buffet? If you had been married to her what would you have done? Would you put a lock on the icebox door and you have the only key? Would you have a food closet that also was locked and you had the only key? When Peggy went to a gathering and forgot to bring her insulin along would you have told her that she had to promptly leave the gathering and go back home? 

While it's true that Louise and I have known each other for almost 30 years. There was a 17 year time in which we were never in each other's physical presence. During that time she went from about 342 to about 410. During that time we were not married nor were we engaged. We were friends. If you are friends with any of the women on this board what you do to make sure that they do not gain any weight? And, preferably, lose weight.

My fat white daughter has two fat white parents. It is possible that the actions of Peggy Williams and myself were the only reason she became fat and white. It also is possible that genetics played a large part in the situation.

Lori's brother is black and thin. It is possible that the reason he is black and thin is because his mother and I reduced his food intake and left him out in the sun a lot. It also also possible that the reason he is black and thin is because his birth mother and birth father were both black and thin.

Pontificating without full knowledge sometimes leaves one open to being shown that they really do not have a good grasp of the situation that they are pontificating about.

With my autistic daughter , one way to keep her out of the kitchen would be to put locked doors on the kitchen and only I would have keys to the doors and that way neither Louise nor Lori could get into the kitchen unless I was directly supervising them. Feel free to send a letter or an e-mail to Louise explaining to her why would be a good idea to give me complete control over her food and I will be happy to deliver it to Louise.

Actually, if you want, if you give me your phone number, I can arrange for you Louise to talk to each other and you can personally explained to her what she should do to allow me to have more control over her food intake.

I hope you do not mind if I list into the conversation between the two of you when that happens.

Russell Williams


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## Russell Williams (Dec 11, 2010)

Aswani said:


> Russell, from my observation, you've chosen the latter with your present and x-wives and even your own daughter and the results have proven to be fairly disastrous on their health. The very, very bottom line question that we have to ask ourself is, do we want this person to be with us for as long as humanly possible, or do we want them to enjoy the edible pleasures of life, but with a limited and less comfortable visit on this planet?
> 
> As you've pointed out, someone is enabling this woman--and chances are it's probably someone that loves them. I'm praying the enabling --or actually, the encouragenet--didn't come from a virtual stranger she met on a website.



do you have any friends smoke? If they do, every time you are together with them you spend some time explaining to them that they should not be smoking? What do you do to make sure that your friends who smoke either reduce their nicotine intake, or stop it altogether? If you see them with a pack of cigarettes do you grab the pack of cigarettes and throw it away? If not, why not, after all , cigarette smoking is bad for their health and you want them to be healthy.


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## bonified (Dec 12, 2010)

I think that when you love someone, you want the best for them, unselfishly. Even though it is arrogant to say you may know what's best for another. Deep down you know if someone doesn't love them self enough to prevent self harm, then your love for them has to step up at whatever costs, until they heal enough psychologically to understand and regain the connection with themself.


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## Tracyarts (Dec 13, 2010)

" Deep down you know if someone doesn't love them self enough to prevent self harm, then your love for them has to step up at whatever costs, until they heal enough psychologically to understand and regain the connection with themself. "

Unfortunately, this doesn't always work for various reasons. 

Sometimes people are just lost causes, and no matter how deeply you invest yourself in them, they cannot be fixed and at worst they will drag you down with them and at best you will end up being a sad witness to their complete self-destruction. Love doesn't conquer all, and it especially cannot conquer addictions and compulsions. Unless the person you love is 100% committed to their own recovery and wellness, you're not going to heal them no matter how much you love them and how much support you are willing to give them.

And sometimes there is a payoff related to the destructive behavior. And it doesn't necessarily have to be something they have a conscious agenda towards enabling. A lot of people out there don't love in a purely altruistic manner. They either just don't get it, or they are so blinded by their own wants from their partner, that they overlook or even encourage the self-destructive behavior. In their minds they may feel that they truly love their partner, but in reality they enjoy the results of the self-destructive behavior enough that they cannot see how they are enabling it or the ways that they are sabotaging their partner's attempts at recovery and wellness. The payoff can even be simply keeping that person around at all costs, because they are afraid that once well, their partner will leave them. 

And also, if both partners (or friends, or family members) have their own addictions or compulsions, they can get locked into a sick dance of mutual enablement and recovery sabotage. I have seen this scenario play out many times over with friends and acquaintences. A compulsive shopper might overlook her partner's alcoholism because if she cuts him slack about drinking too much, he doesn't hassle her about spending too much. Or they sabotage each others recovery efforts because they are afraid that once well, the other will leave and nobody else will put up with them. 

In a relationship where self-destructive behavior is present, the most important thing is boundaries. If you truly love your partner, you have to be willing to put your foot down and refuse to participate in their behavior. People with addictions and compulsions are master manipulators and you cannot cave in. No matter how much they wheedle and whine, no matter how angry they get, no matter what mind-games they play with you, no matter what kind of threats they make to leave you, no matter what weakness of yours they try and exploit... And even if you do have the backbone for it, they may just be a lost cause in which case you have to be strong enough for your own well-being to just call it a day and move on.

Tracy


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## tonynyc (Dec 13, 2010)

chapelhillmensch said:


> Well put
> 
> In fact I won't fence you in but turn you lose and set you free somewhere in the middle of Montana.
> 
> ...



*Should be loads of fun....*


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## tonynyc (Dec 13, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> Surely it has nothing to do with the severe arthritis that she developed, or the downturn in exercise as a result of that, or the 90 pounds that she put on in a month due to a new medication.
> 
> Yes, eating habits (ones which she'd had for all of her life, apparently) are a significant factor in why she got as big as she is, and why she's been fat her entire life; but this isn't something that can be pinned on a single enabler or "encourager" like you're trying to do, instead being more of a cultural issue with lasting- and here, extremely dangerous- consequences.
> 
> And trying to say that it might be the result of "a virtual stranger" is not only absurd- especially given the evidence buried under the sensationalist nonsense in the article- it's almost insulting.



Also .. according to one of the articles ... this poor lady is also a need of that MRI to find out what is causing her headaches - could the MRI uncover something that is causing this WG?


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## Aswani (Dec 13, 2010)

Russell Williams said:


> do you have any friends smoke? If you see them with a pack of cigarettes do you grab the pack of cigarettes and throw it away? If not, why not, after all , cigarette smoking is bad for their health and you want them to be healthy.



Stop playing games with me, Russell. You know what I'm talking about. You've snuck pizza to your daughter in a facility that had her on a strict food menu. At that point you're beyond an enabler, you're a provider. You've made the mistake of documenting huge chunks of your life here on the net on one board or another for reasons that escape me, and those chunks come back to prove you're either a liar or in denial. All that B.S. about how "genetics" may have contributed to your weight, your ex-wive's weigth, your daughter's mother's weight, and your daughter's weight is classic denial. 

"Today for lunch I had two hotdogs, 1/3 of a sub, a sticky bun and a couple of cups of hot chocolate."

My daughter and I went to an all you can eat chinese restrauart. I ate a lot of good food and wound up stuffed. Then the next morning I had 3 eggs and two baked potatoes. In the afternoon I went to an all you can eat ham turkey and oyster dinner. "

The only thing genetic here is a love to eat that probably came from your own parents. I'll even go so far as to say the massive weight gains your ex and present wives as well as your daughter have suffered from stems from YOUR love affair with food. I should know this because I am a big man who understands my weight is due to my love of food. I won't play games with myself that it's genetic. I do know my parents were big eaters because they enjoyed food very much as well, which is where I got my eating habits. Eating meant fun and bonding in my family and I know for a fact that's what it means to you and your loved ones. 

Russell, I can't count how many posts you've written about frequenting junk food restaurants and endorsing they embrace adequate seating for big people. So please, please, please don't paint a picture of someone who woafully sits in the shadows wringing your hands and watches as your loved ones wreck their health or lose their lives because you can't tell them what to do. If you want to go to all-you-can-eat buffets and stuff yourself until you're sick, use some will power and don't bring others with you whose health might improve if they ate better. From what I've observed, you have been seeking eating partners at mates, and it's proving to be a painful relationship with your wives and especially for your beloved daughter. 

And yes, I'm assuming you'll look over at your wife and ask her "Am I influencing your eating habits?" and I'm sure she'll say no. Which is probably true, and that makes yet another perfect eating partner for you. But please don't shed crocodile tears when they end up in a painful physical situation and wonder to yourself "How did this happen?!"


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## superodalisque (Dec 14, 2010)

Aswani said:


> Stop playing games with me, Russell. You know what I'm talking about. You've snuck pizza to your daughter in a facility that had her on a strict food menu. At that point you're beyond an enabler, you're a provider. You've made the mistake of documenting huge chunks of your life here on the net on one board or another for reasons that escape me, and those chunks come back to prove you're either a liar or in denial. All that B.S. about how "genetics" may have contributed to your weight, your ex-wive's weigth, your daughter's mother's weight, and your daughter's weight is classic denial.
> 
> "Today for lunch I had two hotdogs, 1/3 of a sub, a sticky bun and a couple of cups of hot chocolate."
> 
> ...




i have met Russell a few times. i think he is a great guy, wonderful human being and a loving respectful mate from what i've always seen. i know he has been very respectful to me as well. in many ways i feel he is a treasure that does not come across on the forums. but yes i think this is true as much as it pains me to say so. and thats the problem. these people tend to really love and stand by the person they are with but will deny to themselves and others what exactly is happening because its just too painful to face up to. denying the person something that they really want and something they really want them to have is something that seems very hard for them to do--even out of the question. but unfortunately love is harsh sometimes and forces you to make extremely hard choices to do whats best.


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## TimeTraveller (Dec 14, 2010)

This sounds almost like a description of Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy? Most often associated with parents who intentionally harm their children in order to seek continued medical attention for them and thereby garner praise and sympathy for their seeming devotion, it sometimes also occurs between adult family members.

Cleveland Clinic: Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy
http://my.clevelandclinic.org/disorders/factitious_disorders/hic_munchausen_syndrome_by_proxy.aspx


> MSP most often occurs with mothers—although it can occur with fathers—who intentionally harm or describe non-existent symptoms in their children to get the attention given to the family of someone who is sick. A person with MSP uses the many hospitalizations as a way to earn praise from others for her devotion to the child’s care, often using the sick child as a means for developing a relationship with the doctor or other health care provider.
> 
> People with MSP might create or exaggerate the child’s symptoms in several ways. They might simply lie about symptoms, alter diagnostic tests (such as contaminating a urine sample), falsify medical records, or induce symptoms through various means, such as poisoning, suffocating, starving, and causing infection.


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## Aswani (Dec 15, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i have met Russell a few times. i think he is a great guy, wonderful human being and a loving respectful mate from what i've always seen. i know he has been very respectful to me as well. in many ways i feel he is a treasure that does not come across on the forums. but yes i think this is true as much as it pains me to say so. and thats the problem. these people tend to really love and stand by the person they are with but will deny to themselves and others what exactly is happening because its just too painful to face up to. denying the person something that they really want and something they really want them to have is something that seems very hard for them to do--even out of the question. but unfortunately love is harsh sometimes and forces you to make extremely hard choices to do whats best.



From the words I've seen from Russell as well as the words from others about him (such as yours), he truly does seem to have a huge heart with genuine concern for not only his own loved ones, but for so many people way beyond his own personal circle. 

And I'm sorry to Russell and everyone if I tuned this thread into a Russell thread as my original comment was about the complications of enabling a loved one. Believe me, I know how complicated and disheartening it can get.


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## joswitch (Dec 19, 2010)

bigmac said:


> This woman's sad plight is a good example of why I have real difficulty with feeders. There is nothing erotic about the end point of extreme feederism.



:doh:
Dude, as you are NOT a feeder.
And no-one in this article is a feeder.
Nor a feedee.
You are plucking an assumption out of your ass.
Just to grind your favourite axe.

Contrary to many FANTASY stories you may have read, the ultimate goal of every feeder is NOT, shockingly enough, immobility for a feedee.
Really, do you imagine that everyone who enjoys S&M aspires to "Box Helena"??
The most extreme thing you can imagine does NOT = the ambition of most people in a group who happen to have a desire that you do not have, and personally find icky.
GTFOIA.


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## Szombathy (Dec 19, 2010)

Wow.

I thought this was a forum about size acceptance.

There are a lot of legitimate issues here (limits to HAES, etc). I just wonder why the discussion of such problems always seems to lead to ad hominem attacks.


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## superodalisque (Dec 19, 2010)

Szombathy said:


> Wow.
> 
> I thought this was a forum about size acceptance.
> 
> There are a lot of legitimate issues here (limits to HAES, etc). I just wonder why the discussion of such problems always seems to lead to ad hominem attacks.



probably because of the emotionally tough tension between desire and damage


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## Heyyou (Dec 19, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> probably because of the emotionally tough tension between desire and damage



What does that even mean? 

As to topic, if she does not lose weight she is in danger of perishing. Its fact.


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## bigmac (Dec 19, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> probably because of the emotionally tough tension between desire and damage



Great phrasing, desire vs damage -- I know I desire a fat partner -- on the other hand I feel its unethical to encourage your partner to get fatter on purpose.

People who love each other should in my opinion encourage each other to lead the healthiest lives possible. This may or may not lead to weight loss -- but its almost a certainty that it will not lead to significant weight gain.


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 20, 2010)

Szombathy said:


> Wow.
> 
> I thought this was a forum about size acceptance.



DIMs is a welcoming environment!
unless one believes in HAES or is a feeder/feedee, in which case any and all arguments are instantly invalid.


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## joswitch (Dec 20, 2010)

bigmac said:


> Great phrasing, desire vs damage -- I know I desire a fat partner -- on the other hand I feel its unethical to encourage your partner to get fatter on purpose.



You are assuming that fatter automatically = less healthy.
Probably because your impression of feederism sees every feedee ultimately immobile and bedridden.



> People who love each other should in my opinion encourage each other to lead the healthiest lives possible.



"Your opinion" is confusing a romantic partner with a doctor cum personal trainer. Most people aren't looking for their lover to be a self-appointed health guru.

Further:
Health in itself is not a life GOAL. Health is one of the factors that MAY help you to acheive your life goals /enjoy life's pleasures. It is NOT the be all and end all.

Newsflash:
Healthy people die. Every day.
Just like unhealthy people.
The clock is ticking for ALL of us.



> This may or may not lead to weight loss -- but its almost a certainty that it will not lead to significant weight gain.



Says you. 
There are endless screeds and libraries full of research on the various pros (yes, there are some pros) and cons of weightgain on health, much of which has been thrashed out on DIMs. But what the hell, why bother with the complexities of reality and biological variation? when you can just flat out declare X= BAD. 

Also "significant" = nice and vague.
In context it could mean pretty much whatever suits your argument at the moment. Nice set up.

Also, also: 
Sorry, it's just far too pat and neat that you; Mr. I'm-an-FA-not-a-feeder-nononono gets to stand on the moral high ground and condemn us evil feeders from your lofty perch. 
Frankly, I think you've cut the cloth to match your tastes, rather than any kind of rationality or evidence.
And bear in mind - because you are not constantly pressurising your wife to LOSE LOSE LOSE!!!! - out in wider, fatphobic society you too are seen as an evil-health-destroying-enabler, just as bad as ZOMG TEH FEEDAZ!!!!

So why don't you give us all a break from your self-righteous posturing? Thanks so much.


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## joswitch (Dec 20, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> probably because of the emotionally tough tension between desire and damage



Cos fat(ter) always = "damage", right?
Of course it does.
FFS!


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## orin (Dec 20, 2010)

bigmac said:


> This woman's sad plight is a good example of why I have real difficulty with feeders. There is nothing erotic about the end point of extreme feederism.



I agree ... I love plumpness ... but when it starts to severely affect health, such a desire becomes too selfish


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## orin (Dec 20, 2010)

bigmac said:


> OK this has got to be one of the most obnoxious sentences ever posted here.
> 
> I don't think this lady needs any reminding of how her weight is affecting her health. There seems to be a sort of Calvinist enjoyment in the suffering of those deemed less worthy in your words.
> 
> What this lady needs is a constructive diagnosis and help. Was she encouraged to eat by a feeder, or is she a food addict, or was she traumatized and sought refuge in food -- or some combination? If she's ever going to be successful in loosing enough weight to regain her mobility she's going to have to figure out why it is she ate herself to 700 pounds. She may need a good therapist more than an MRI.




You and I think alike in the subject bigmac, that what i was wondering, what would have made her eat to the point of loosing mobility. I was almost wondering if her husband is in fact a feeder. But alas the focus should be as to how can she loose the weight and regain her health and her life again.


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## joswitch (Dec 20, 2010)

orin said:


> You and I think alike in the subject bigmac, that what i was wondering, what would have made her eat to the point of loosing mobility.



If you read the article you'd know that she lost her mobility BEFORE she became extremely big. And in in fact that loss of mobility, which took away her ability to excercise has been a contributing CAUSE of her gain!



> I was almost wondering if her husband is in fact a feeder. But alas the focus should be as to how can she loose the weight and regain her health and her life again.



NOTHING about this article suggests the husband is a feeder!
WTF!

It's like people are seeing a feeder behind every fat person now!
"Oh, look a fat person"
"Oh, yeah... Must've been a feeder."
"Of course! BLAME FEEDERS! THEY ARE EVERWHERE!!!!"

Jeeeeezuz.


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## sallybbw82 (Dec 20, 2010)

Shouldn't we all be uniting around how wrong it is that this woman is a "story" just because of her size? 

This is the thing that scares me the most - that in society's eyes my most significant attribute is my size and that attribute is perceived as negative.


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## CleverBomb (Dec 20, 2010)

TraciJo67 said:


> I hate even seeing this posted here. Not the news item itself (though I could do without the sensationalist natuer) but the inevitable discussion that ensues.
> 
> To me, it seems crystal clear that the only good response to a story like this is to simply wish the woman well and hope that she is able to find a path towards recovery so that she can once again do all of the things that most of us take for granted, like walk and look after her own personal hygiene. I hate seeing anything other than that. It just feeds into my own cynical streak about human nature.


What she said. 

-Rusty


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## iglooboy55 (Dec 21, 2010)

bigmac said:


> This woman's sad plight is a good example of why I have real difficulty with feeders. There is nothing erotic about the end point of extreme feederism.


^ amen.
telling a girl she needs to gain weight to be sexier is just as bad as telling her she needs to lose weight. asking her to do either is an extremely selfish thing to do.


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## joswitch (Dec 21, 2010)

iglooboy55 said:


> ^ amen.
> telling a girl she needs to gain weight to be sexier is just as bad as telling her she needs to lose weight. asking her to do either is an extremely selfish thing to do.



Yeah, right, cos that's all that feedism is.
Ordering someone to fulfil your fetish.
Sure.
/sarcasm:doh:

Would it be too bloody much to ask from those of you who aren't feeders or feedees and don't "get" wtf feedism IS - to STFU about it?

Especially in THIS thread, which is NOTHING to do with feedism!?

Seriously, give us all a break here.
You are flogging the wrong fossilised horse.
Weakass, whiteknighting, holier-than-thou pontificating does not make you a good guy. It makes you the schoolyard bully who is trying to cover up his own "issues" by picking on people he thinks have worse "issues" than him.

Give it up.
You're spotted in the searchlight and your trousers are down.


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## Jes (Dec 21, 2010)

joswitch said:


> holier-than-thou pontificating does not make you a good guy. It makes you the schoolyard bully who is trying to cover up his own "issues" by picking on people he thinks have worse "issues" than him.
> 
> .



Wait, I just wanted to see this all alone for a second.


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 21, 2010)

Jes said:


> Wait, I just wanted to see this all alone for a second.


yeah, you should definitely focus on that


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## TraciJo67 (Dec 21, 2010)

joswitch said:


> Yeah, right, cos that's all that feedism is.
> Ordering someone to fulfil your fetish.
> Sure.
> /sarcasm:doh:
> ...


 
If you'd like it to move away from a discussion of feedism, perhaps you can stop your bitter, angry ranting about feedism. Perhaps, also, you can refrain from defense of feedism in a thread that isn't about feedism. 

I know that you don't take anything that I say seriously, and that's OK, but this I know to be true: You are coming across as quite sanctimonious and extremely defensive, yourself. Anyone sitting on the fence, reading this, is most definitely not getting the impression you'd like for them to have about the practice.


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## Blackjack (Dec 21, 2010)

TraciJo67 said:


> If you'd like it to move away from a discussion of feedism, perhaps you can stop your bitter, angry ranting about feedism. Perhaps, also, you can refrain from defense of feedism in a thread that isn't about feedism.
> 
> I know that you don't take anything that I say seriously, and that's OK, but this I know to be true: You are coming across as quite sanctimonious and extremely defensive, yourself. Anyone sitting on the fence, reading this, is most definitely not getting the impression you'd like for them to have about the practice.



As a feeder I can say that I quite strongly agree with this. You're not doing anyone any favors, jos.


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## joswitch (Dec 21, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> As a feeder I can say that I quite strongly agree with this. You're not doing anyone any favors, jos.



Yeah, well so you say... There's peeps who've PM'd to agree with me on this.

Always makes me laugh, whenever I call out someone on DIMs for the plat-de-jour of BS they are trying to serve up, then a whole bunch of peeps rush to try and make it all-about-me... Focus, people. Focus!

Bigmac started a whole "let's badmouth feeders, in a thread that's nothing to do with feeders" trope, and a whole bunch of Mini-macs tripped over their dicks scurrying to echo him. :doh:

This is what is happening.
Don't get mad at me for pointing out that BS, is in fact BS.

Also thanks so muchly for quoting TraciJo67  who I've had on blissful ignore for a good ol' while now...


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## joswitch (Dec 21, 2010)

Okayz, Imma letchu haz ur thread back now...
But don't you let me catch you kidz playin'-kick-the-feeder round here no more!
*shakes cranky fist*
*exits stage left*


....my work here is done...


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## Aswani (Dec 21, 2010)

Rule #1 Jos. NEVER do a follow-up post. Never ever EVER. It makes people turn away in embarrassment.


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## mossystate (Dec 21, 2010)

I wish Traci would keep her large dick out of my path...that's all I gotta say.


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## Heyyou (Dec 21, 2010)

mossystate said:


> I wish Traci would keep her large dick out of my path...that's all I gotta say.







> To me, it seems crystal clear that the only good response to a story like this is to simply wish the woman well and hope that she is able to find a path towards recovery



The only crystal clear thing to do is that if this particularly large woman ignores doctor's orders, there is substantially higher risk she will perish. Why would anyone want to wish her to perish? Why doesnt she adjust her diet, so that she is helping her body function right, not load it up with so much excess she may die, as the doctors have said?

Wishing her well as you say would be wishing her to die. What she does is up to her. But she knows she is at risk. I would not want to die, nor be "wished well."

Now if crystal clear is shades of grey, thats different.


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 21, 2010)

Aswani said:


> Rule #1 Jos. NEVER do a follow-up post. Never ever EVER. It makes people turn away in embarrassment.


speak for yourself. i have more respect than ever for joswitch.



Heyyou said:


> The only crystal clear thing to do is that if this particularly large woman ignores doctor's orders, there is substantially higher risk she will perish.


where in the initial article did it state she was ignoring doctor's orders?
if you can point that out to me, i'd appreciate it.


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## Aswani (Dec 21, 2010)

Heyyou said:


> Wishing her well as you say would be wishing her to die. .



Has someone spilled some mind-altering drug in your water system? She said she wishes her well and hopes she finds a path to recovery. What an odd phrase for you to cherry-pick for debate. I could be on a limb here but I'd say we all hope she finds a path to recovery.


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## Heyyou (Dec 21, 2010)

Aswani said:


> Has someone spilled some mind-altering drug in your water system? She said she wishes her well and hopes she finds a path to recovery. What an odd phrase for you to cherry-pick for debate. I could be on a limb here but I'd say we all hope she finds a path to recovery.



Well, lets all wish her well then.

And dont make fun of my water. :happy:


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## chapelhillmensch (Dec 22, 2010)

mossystate said:


> I wish Traci would keep her large dick out of my path...that's all I gotta say.




That was kinda rude


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## mossystate (Dec 22, 2010)

chapelhillmensch said:


> That was kinda rude



No, it wasn't. Safety is no laughing matter.


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## TraciJo67 (Dec 22, 2010)

bigmac said:


> Yes!!! I really hope she's successful in regaining her life. The only reason I brought up the feeder issue is because Dimensions is full of posts ranting about how great and sexy it is, or would be, to be this huge. The article is a great reality check.



But this thread wasn't about feeders and feedees. Although I knew that eventually it would be. We all know or should know the difference between fantasy and reality. I've seen so many examples of thoughtful distinctions from both feeders and feedees. I know thay after a while it has to get tiresome to keep having to point it out. I just hate watching the extremes on both ends start the inevitable ranting. Heyyou is quick to reassure us that this is an example of a bad fatty who failed to heed the deathfat warnings. Joswitch continues to assert, even in this thread, that not all fat is unhealthy. Both extremes are glib at best and fail to acknowledge the reality of this womans situation. Both also seem very self interested... heyyou as a way of distancing himself and Joswitch as defense of what he perceives to be a threat to his lifestyle. Otherwise reasonable people risk a scathing misconstrual if they so much as venture an opinion. And the focus of this thread is again trampled on by people with their own agendas. Tiresome.


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## superodalisque (Dec 22, 2010)

TraciJo67 said:


> But this thread wasn't about feeders and feedees. Although I knew that eventually it would be. We all know or should know the difference between fantasy and reality. I've seen so many examples of thoughtful distinctions from both feeders and feedees. I know thay after a while it has to get tiresome to keep having to point it out. I just hate watching the extremes on both ends start the inevitable ranting. Heyyou is quick to reassure us that this is an example of a bad fatty who failed to heed the deathfat warnings. Joswitch continues to assert, even in this thread, that not all fat is unhealthy. Both extremes are glib at best and fail to acknowledge the reality of this womans situation. Both also seem very self interested... heyyou as a way of distancing himself and Joswitch as defense of what he perceives to be a threat to his lifestyle. Otherwise reasonable people risk a scathing misconstrual if they so much as venture an opinion. And the focus of this thread is again trampled on by people with their own agendas. Tiresome.



i agree with you that the self interest is the core issue. if there were more concern about the actual person you'd see more about what to do and what could be done. the thing i find most tiring about the feeder/feedee/gaining tension is that much is basically pretty much selfish. its true that it isn't fair to paint everyone with the same brush, but on the other hand being in denial is an awful thing too. nothing practical ever gets done because the concern is all about judging someone else or trying not to look wrong. none of it is realistic of helpful. 

i'd feel much better about the people who make certain judgments if they were willing to do something concrete to help. unfortunately many haven't made much of an effort to meet or get to know much of anyone on a real level. they certainly aren't going to go to anyone's house to help them to clean up. they aren't going to take up collections or give anybody any money. they won't go and get their groceries. so really, sometimes the things they have to say sound pretty pointless in the scheme of things. it sounds more like they are just disgusted and trying to be right and give the same kinds of arguments to the rest of us that people think ignorant thin people would fall for. those of us who are fat know we didn't get supersized etc... because we do not eat. please don't encourage that bs. some of us eat more or less than others but thats about it. if something happens to us or our bodies we all have the same potential to get larger than we intended. if none of us consumed calories we'd all be thin, medications diseases etc... aside. they might increase the appetite and decrease the metabolism but we still eat.

but the truth be told the reality check is very important here because there has been too much denial for much too long. after being around for 8 years many of my friends have suffered permanent damage or even death. these are NOT people i just know from the net. they are people who have my real name address and phone number and we keep in touch regularly and see one another when time and distance permit. before someone says thin people get sick too, i'll state my disagreement to the attempt to trivialize the challenge of being a very fat person for many. i have a whole lot of fat friends. i go to events with them, have them in my home, visit theirs, socialize with them and call them on the phone etc... but i'm not a slim phobic by any means. i spend even more time with average sized people. i know there is nothing near the obvious problems that i see among us. trying to equate the two groups is unrealistic. there are very obvious differences between the two groups. anyone who says different is blowing smoke for their own benefit. even if its possible that fat people can be as healthy as anyone else it doesn't mean that they always are. potential and reality is NOT the same thing especially if you're not among people who really encourage fat people to go after their health and are actually turned on by the disabilities they can develop. lets be real. i would love it to be the same for fat and thin but its not. it doesn't make fat people bad at all. but i think fat people and their friends and lovers owe it to them to see things as they really are if they do care for themselves and each other. yet, there are still people claiming they don't see it but i know better. i have noted it first hand myself, had people tell me with their own mouths and have witnessed the same people who claim it doesn't exist viewing and hearing the same then later pretending differently so they can live with exactly what it is they are supportive of. 

these people often come to these boards and pretend with people who haven't been lucky enough to meet many of the wonderful people here first hand and see the struggle that does not always appear on the boards. i remember when i went to my very first event how shocked i was about how different things were than they are generally portrayed than when you meet in person--except for the genuine affection and fun. i also found it odd how people often deny the social influence there is to gain. the attention people get DOES cause many to go beyond what is right for them personally. worse is that suddenly its their fault alone and soley their responsibility if something goes wrong. with my own eyes i've seen some of the most white knighted defenders of the fat refuse to get a semi immobile woman a chair or a cold glass of water. yet they come here and behave as though they are the most wonderful and caring people around. honestly they wouldn't help in the least even though they were the first ones in line to enjoy the experience of watching someone become fatter and actively encourage them to get that way. 

honestly i understand Big Mac a lot . because it gets harder and harder for those who of us who actually love,care, take the time to actually listen to and stay around to look after those who gain more than they can personally handle to swallow. no matter how much i might like them as people, sometimes you just get tired of turning a blind eye or pretending with people who need their feelings of guilt assuaged or the reasons for that potential guilt ignored. i don't think there would be much of a tension if there weren't some people who need to totally pretend that weight has not had any effect whatsoever on anyone even though it obviously has. trying to convince themselves that it has had absolutely no effect ever on the people around them is something not to be championed. sorry but i won't pretend for anyone. if it was a person who was realistic and actually paid attention to that potential i'd say sure, i understand that. IMO but this constant need to pretend everyone can be a heavy as they can get on nearly no calories, because eating is somehow supposed to be shameful , with no ill effects whatsoever is just not right or fair to the people who have to carry the weight. thats especially true if you know they are the very ones who run when things gets tough and leave people who've been taking a risk to please their libido in a lurch.


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## Blackjack (Dec 22, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i agree with you that the self interest is the core issue.



Well if it ain't the other side of jos' coin


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## superodalisque (Dec 22, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> Well if it ain't the other side of jos' coin



i don't know what this means exactly but i know get nothing from this except for respecting other fat people i care about with honesty instead of the same lame platitudes. it doesn't sexually excite me to see fat people healthy or even dieting. i don't have a make everybody thin fetish. wishing other people well and encouraging them to consider themselves first is not self interested. if i were really being self interested i'd keep my mouth shut instead of saying the difficult thing that i know a lot will disagree with. i think i really was very self interested before because it was much easier not to make waves with people i care for. but truly the lies and pretense need to stop for everyone's best interest. no one should try to build their whole philosophy of life around trying to make someone comfortable with their eating by denying that they are. thats something a fat person has to deal with and they don't need people telling them how powerless they are over their own bodies. being fat should be their choice because they actually like it and not a life sentence to something they hate.

actually i like Jos but i feel he just doesn't get it because he is not fat. neither do you really. i think its very tempting to just be concerned mainly about keeping people fat without considering everything it takes for a person to be happy. but continually insisting that nobody is eating doesn't help fat people. its not the truth or something anyone needs to be ashamed of or have an excuse for. sure it works for people who need the crutch right now because they still aren't okay with themselves and the fact that they eat but hopefully soon they won't see the need to and be okay with however they are.

hopefully the years won't make the truths for people even more horrible to face. hopefully they won't have to run away ,close their eyes and pretend it isn't happening at all or that its not their responsibility and has nothing whatsoever to do with them and their actions. maybe they don't remember all of the times they spent reinforcing how desirable it was for someone else to change for them in ways that might not be a good idea for them. or, maybe easier to segregate from the people who've been around for a long time and had the experiences already and pretending those experiences are invalid. i don't now how many times or in how many ways people have to try and say it before it gets paid attention to. its better if someone else is just dumb stupid old or ignorant and it could never happen to people who feel they are smarter and more together. before things get out of control most people think they have it on lock. its easier not to listen to things not easy to hear and pretend they are meant just out of hostility or selfishness. but think about whi is getting what out of what, that should give you your answer.


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## Blackjack (Dec 22, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> (extensive verbosity)



Lengthy essays aside, you and this have a lot in common:


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## superodalisque (Dec 22, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> Lengthy essays aside, you and this have a lot in common:



easier to try and insult than answer isn't it?

just put me on ignore and you won't have to see the same old lengthy movie being played over and over again  isn't that easy


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## iglooboy55 (Dec 22, 2010)

i didnt know there was apparently a giant, vicious battle between feeders and non feeders. i got nothing against any of you all.
my apologies.


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## EtobicokeFA (Dec 23, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i don't know what this means exactly but i know get nothing from this except for respecting other fat people i care about with honesty instead of the same lame platitudes. it doesn't sexually excite me to see fat people healthy or even dieting. i don't have a make everybody thin fetish. wishing other people well and encouraging them to consider themselves first is not self interested. if i were really being self interested i'd keep my mouth shut instead of saying the difficult thing that i know a lot will disagree with. i think i really was very self interested before because it was much easier not to make waves with people i care for. but truly the lies and pretense need to stop for everyone's best interest. no one should try to build their whole philosophy of life around trying to make someone comfortable with their eating by denying that they are. thats something a fat person has to deal with and they don't need people telling them how powerless they are over their own bodies. being fat should be their choice because they actually like it and not a life sentence to something they hate.
> 
> actually i like Jos but i feel he just doesn't get it because he is not fat. neither do you really. i think its very tempting to just be concerned mainly about keeping people fat without considering everything it takes for a person to be happy. but continually insisting that nobody is eating doesn't help fat people. its not the truth or something anyone needs to be ashamed of or have an excuse for. sure it works for people who need the crutch right now because they still aren't okay with themselves and the fact that they eat but hopefully soon they won't see the need to and be okay with however they are.
> 
> hopefully the years won't make the truths for people even more horrible to face. hopefully they won't have to run away ,close their eyes and pretend it isn't happening at all or that its not their responsibility and has nothing whatsoever to do with them and their actions. maybe they don't remember all of the times they spent reinforcing how desirable it was for someone else to change for them in ways that might not be a good idea for them. or, maybe easier to segregate from the people who've been around for a long time and had the experiences already and pretending those experiences are invalid. i don't now how many times or in how many ways people have to try and say it before it gets paid attention to. its better if someone else is just dumb stupid old or ignorant and it could never happen to people who feel they are smarter and more together. before things get out of control most people think they have it on lock. its easier not to listen to things not easy to hear and pretend they are meant just out of hostility or selfishness. but think about whi is getting what out of what, that should give you your answer.



Great post.


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## butch (Dec 23, 2010)

So, why don't any of these conversations deal with the here and now instead of the couldas, shouldas, maybes? Seriously, if the majority of diets fail for the majority of people, of all sizes of fat, then why don't we focus more on the here and now of someone's health, instead of focusing on either extreme of: the person will just get fatter and fatter and then they'll die, or they just need to lose weight and then they'll be healthy?

This is why I like HAES, because it focuses on the person in the moment, and not as a person who was one way in the past, or will be some other way in the future, and helps them to live the healthiest life they can now, instead of having to delay that until some threshold of weight loss has happened.

This is the main reason I find nothing useful in these debates, because we focus on the past and the future, and not today. What can be done today to make a fat person feel better, and how can that be done in an ethical and supportive manner? Adding up a lot of 'todays' from this approach will equal a healthier future, don't you think? It sure has for me.


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## superodalisque (Dec 23, 2010)

butch said:


> So, why don't any of these conversations deal with the here and now instead of the couldas, shouldas, maybes? Seriously, if the majority of diets fail for the majority of people, of all sizes of fat, then why don't we focus more on the here and now of someone's health, instead of focusing on either extreme of: the person will just get fatter and fatter and then they'll die, or they just need to lose weight and then they'll be healthy?
> 
> This is why I like HAES, because it focuses on the person in the moment, and not as a person who was one way in the past, or will be some other way in the future, and helps them to live the healthiest life they can now, instead of having to delay that until some threshold of weight loss has happened.
> 
> This is the main reason I find nothing useful in these debates, because we focus on the past and the future, and not today. What can be done today to make a fat person feel better, and how can that be done in an ethical and supportive manner? Adding up a lot of 'todays' from this approach will equal a healthier future, don't you think? It sure has for me.



i agree with this point to a large part. however, IMO our past present and future are not totally separate. but in order to do today sometimes we have to make peace with our past and make friends with our future. part of that may be to be truthful about what we are doing and have done and to be fine with it not blaming ourselves or having to feel we need to be on the defensive all of the time about what we ate. IMO people who don't engage in HAES are not doing it because they don't want to or its too hard but because they might feel hopeless and out of control. they just might not be in the right place mentally. thats my issue with constantly pointing out to people how many diseases they have that might keep them fat or how their medications may keep them fat or how nothing will "work" for them with the always underlying assumption that everything only has to be about weight loss so that even a little weight loss is a bad thing even if it changes the quality of someone's life drastically. its not weight loss at all really. what it is about is feeling in control of your own body and your own actions because you love yourself enough to get what you want out of life. it doesn't come through someone else who isn't even fat and their opinions about you and your body. its about getting down to loving yourself just because, like you said, in the moment. like a lot of people have said, every fat person is different but they definitely don't need people telling them whats impossible and what they can't do at all. its just not helpful. and when i say what they can do i'm not talking necessarily about weight loss.


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## Blackjack (Dec 23, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> easier to try and insult than answer isn't it?



It's not easy to answer when there's such accusatory bullshit in your arguments as:



superodalisque said:


> i think its very tempting to just be concerned mainly about keeping people fat without considering everything it takes for a person to be happy.



Yes, FAs and feeders are more interested in keeping people fat and dissuading them from changing their habits than they are in considering happiness.

Seriously, where do you pull these caricatures of wretchedness out of? You keep bringing up all these things that FAs do as though they're some other race, incapable of anything resembling normal social behavior.



p.s. the key concept that you missed with that pic was *projector*. You project all this stuff and argue it, even if your thousand words are an unrelated response to ten.


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## superodalisque (Dec 23, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> It's not easy to answer when there's such accusatory bullshit in your arguments as:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




why are you so angry? its just my opinion.


and as i said before if you think my posts are useless projections why spend your time reading them?


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## Blackjack (Dec 23, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> why are you so angry? its just my opinion.



"It's just my opinion" is a sorry excuse and a weak defense for the accusations you continually make.


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## superodalisque (Dec 23, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> "It's just my opinion" is a sorry excuse and a weak defense for the accusations you continually make.



thats your opinion it being my opinion is not an excuse but a fact. if you don't like what i said why not refute the statements instead of getting personal? 

just in case you didn't know, i'm not here to please you specifically or produce an opinion that you personally approve of. neither is anyone else. have a nice day


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## superodalisque (Dec 23, 2010)

joswitch said:


> Yeah, right, cos that's all that feedism is.
> Ordering someone to fulfil your fetish.
> Sure.
> /sarcasm:doh:
> ...



its not a feederism or a fat or slim admirer question but a human one. thats what the person you quoted was trying to get at. no matter who it is that has the need to change or control someone else they have to know thats unfair pressure to be putting on someone if its posed as the ONLY way they can satisfy their partner or have their affection.


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## FishCharming (Dec 23, 2010)

don't mind me folks, just getting my post count up 

happy holidays!


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## Meddlecase (Dec 23, 2010)

FishCharming said:


> don't mind me folks, just getting my post count up
> 
> happy holidays!



I admire your drive for excellence.


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## Luv Gaining Ladies (Dec 2, 2015)

I look at a person like this. I look at just about anyone who is overweight, obese, fat, whatever you want to call it. And I have come to this conclusion.

There's always more to the story. There is, put simply, always more to the story than what people will inevitably conclude.

Whitney Thore of My Big Fat Fabulous Life is a prime example. A 5'2" woman simply doesn't get to 380 pounds by being lazy and stuffing food - there's more to her story. Namely, she has a condition (polycystic ovarian syndrome, which, up until recently has been a mystery disease) that causes her weight gain. I am all too familiar with the condition - my wife has it. It did the same thing to her. (I happen to think that both my wife and Whitney are gorgeous, but neither here nor there.)

I myself have struggled for most of my life with food. I can get a handle on just about every trigger item out there - I drink lightly, I don't smoke or use drugs, I gamble with extreme caution, I don't shop that much, and so on and so forth. My vice is food. Any time I'm stressed, I turn to food - or sometimes push it away completely. I've gone to therapy for it. I can't keep certain trigger foods in the house or available. I know there's more to it for me - food was a control thing for me growing up, and when my life got away from me, especially during law school, food was my coping device.

It's hard to learn not to judge people. But when people have issues of their own and struggle with them and still judge others harshly, well, there's just nothing you can do for those people.


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## KHayes666 (Dec 3, 2015)

Luv Gaining Ladies said:


> I look at a person like this. I look at just about anyone who is overweight, obese, fat, whatever you want to call it. And I have come to this conclusion.
> 
> There's always more to the story. There is, put simply, always more to the story than what people will inevitably conclude.
> 
> ...



You just necro-posted a 5 year old thread. Jesus


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