# So I have an interesting situation



## klosterblocked (Oct 21, 2007)

The story starts like many of the topics that I've seen before. There's this girl I went out with, and as I'm sure you've heard a million times before, she thinks she's too fat. She'll be 22 on the 26th, and is a size 20.

She's been heavy most of her life, though she has lost 60 pounds, she's still big by most (normal) peoples standards. I want to clarify right now that I don't just see her as an object, and I can respect and understand her feelings in the matter. This seems to be a common fallacy in a lot of peoples stories like this, and I seek to avoid it. She's always been big, or at least chunky, and she's always dated FAs. Thing is, she doesn't enjoy her fat herself. She likes the idea of curves, but sees fat itself as gross, etc...but here's the thing:

Having been part of the FA community for several years, I've read countless stories of people who's wifes/girlfriends initially disliked their fat and ended up growing to like it for some reason or another. Knowing that she's dated FAs for several years now, I assumed that it wasn't likely in her case.

But then out of curiosity I asked it anyway. I asked if she'd ever tried thinking about it the other way, looking at it with a different attitude. Interestingly enough, the idea had never occurred to her, and she remarked that she wouldn't know where to start. She said (her words) that she feels like society has told her that this is attractive, and she feels like she has to conform to it. I think one of the things that really made her think about this was my remarking that while she could feel attractive while thinner, that it still may be possible for her to feel attractive about herself now. The big problem is this little voice in her head that says "no it's not" when someone says something like a belly is attractive.

That said, she still was open to the idea of developing a way to feel better about herself in that way if its possible. Let me say right now (and I told her this as well) that I know that it may be impossible for her to change in that way. Some people are simply hard-wired and there isn't much you can do about it. That said, it had never even occurred to her to try and think about her weight in a different way, so that leaves open the possibility that she may be able to feel better about herself in that way, and is willing to explore this road.

One hypothesis I have is to attempt to associate it with something that she likes. (in her case, being spoiled) I had done a similar thing as a teenager. Originally, I was solely a maiesiophiliac, but I also had a thing for weight gain. After spending a lot of time reading about fat-related weight gain, I found myself slowly becoming more attracted to fat as well. Unfortunately, I've only managed to do this once, and that was to myself, and a different gender than what I'm dealing with in this case.

That said, this is new territory for me. I ask you, Dimensions weight board, what happened in your case? To those who had or have a significant other that was fat for a long period of time, did not enjoy it, then came to enjoy it (or at least no longer felt it made them unattractive), I ask you what happened? What were her feelings? What was her emotional reasoning? What changed?


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## Rowan (Oct 21, 2007)

klosterblocked said:


> big by most (normal) peoples standards.



because of something you said...im angry...so im going to keep this short and sweet...

big by most (normal) peoples standards?

please do elaborate on this...


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## charlieversion2 (Oct 21, 2007)

at this point I'm sure klosterblocked has the same sensation he would have if he just passed a state trooper on the highway.


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## TraciJo67 (Oct 21, 2007)

ChrisVersion2 said:


> at this point I'm sure klosterblocked has the same sensation he would have if he just passed a state trooper on the highway.



... while going 20 miles over the speed limit, with expired tabs, not wearing a seatbelt and smoking a doobie


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## charlieversion2 (Oct 21, 2007)

*noted*

don't forget the open 6pak, and I'm not talking abs here.


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## Lamia (Oct 21, 2007)

Rowan said:


> because of something you said...im angry...so im going to keep this short and sweet...
> 
> big by most (normal) peoples standards?
> 
> please do elaborate on this...



I think he is talking about the majority when he says normal. I didn't take it any other way. The majority of the population in this country view fat as bad. They are the norm. It doesn't mean people who enjoy fat are abnormal in a clinical sense, but they are going against the grain. I admire that. Normal is boring. Viva La Difference.

To answer the initial post. I believe it's totally possible to change your attitude about anything as long as you are open to change. I think this is why it scares some people to ruminate on taboo subjects too long, they might convert. My own attitude about my body and weight changes from moment to moment. Some days I feel beautiful other days I feel dreadful. I think all people go through this. Overall, I made a conscious decision to love myself as I am. I am still dealing with it. It's hard to recondition yourself. I don't know that I shall ever be successful. 

It helps having someone in my life who tells me I am gorgeous, but at the center of my being there is still doubt and it will always be stronger than any amount of external praise or support. 

Lamia


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## klosterblocked (Oct 21, 2007)

Lamia said:


> I think he is talking about the majority when he says normal. I didn't take it any other way. The majority of the population in this country view fat as bad. They are the norm. It doesn't mean people who enjoy fat are abnormal in a clinical sense, but they are going against the grain. I admire that. Normal is boring. Viva La Difference.



Ding ding ding!


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## AnnMarie (Oct 21, 2007)

Lamia said:


> I think he is talking about the majority when he says normal. I didn't take it any other way. The majority of the population in this country view fat as bad. They are the norm. It doesn't mean people who enjoy fat are abnormal in a clinical sense, but they are going against the grain. I admire that. Normal is boring. Viva La Difference.



I took it the same, and I think a simple change of punctuation from ( ) to " " shows the meaning.


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## wrestlingguy (Oct 21, 2007)

Okay, so now thqt we've scolded a guy with only 34 posts, can we answer his question so he will learn, and perhaps post again?

Years before Carla, I lived with a girl for just over 2 1/2 years. Awesome girl who due to clinical depression, gained over 100 lbs, and went from a size 8 to a size 22-24. She hated it for the same reasons your girl did.

Her gain was primarily from the use of Wellbutrin & Prozac. This was very early on in my FA dom, so I wasn't really sure how to deal with it. After months of telling her how beautiful she looked, and her not believing me, I showed her the Dimensions website. She thought it was porn, and she got so pissed that she moved out.

Fast forward 3 months. She meets me at a mutual friend's house, and I see that she's lost almost the entire 100 lbs. Still an awesome girl, we dated a bit, and a few weeks later she moves back in with me, minus the prescription drugs. I work, she stays home, and 8 months later, she gains over 115 lbs, and is pushing a size 26. She told me she loved the way her fat jiggled when we made love, I couldn't believe it, she was coming around!!!! I was in heaven. I'd come home to see her wiping out a quart of Sealtest Vanilla Bean Ice Cream almost daily. 3 nights a week at the Country Buffet, and one at the chinese.

Then out of nowhere, she tells me she wants out. Not for another guy, but she hated herself for her weight gain, and hated me for loving it. By then she had just turned 30. According to her, she felt that I was pressuring her into weight gain (and those of you who really know me know that is NOT the way I roll), and she couldn't take it anymore. We argued, she left, and I never looked back. I recently saw her, and while I didn't talk with her, I could see that she gained about 50 lbs back of the weight she'd lost on her second try.

The point I'm making here is that you never know how your girl will react, long term. Most of the girls here have not only accepted, but embrace who they are, and while fat plays a major part of their persona, it's not the only part. I married a gal who is more than comfortable with her weight, and isn't afraid to share her feelings about it with others. She's grown emotionally into that mindset, and that is one of the many reasons I married her.

We're all on a journey here. Feelings are often transient about weight, especially to someone so new to it. My suggestion, have patience, and don't expect miracles.


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## krystalltuerme (Oct 21, 2007)

wrestlingguy said:


> My suggestion, have patience, and don't expect miracles.


QFE

I'm in a similar boat, except that my girl never dated an FA before me. It's been rocky, but we've been together 3+ years now, and there have been definite improvements. You just have to expect that there will be good days and there will be bad days.


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Oct 22, 2007)

Lamia said:


> It helps having someone in my life who tells me I am gorgeous, but at the center of my being there is still doubt and it will always be stronger than any amount of external praise or support.


 And sometimes no amount of externally-applied praise or positive feedback will help them see themselves as beautiful or desirable. Some people flat out do not like their bodies, fat or thin. Nice-fitting clothes, lower #s on the weight scale, compliments, etc. won't change how they view themselves in the mirror.


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## pinkprincess5 (Oct 22, 2007)

If you love someone you love them regardless of size/colour etc etc etc and what is liked by one is not by another.Makes the world go round...:wubu:


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## Wagimawr (Oct 22, 2007)

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> And sometimes no amount of externally-applied praise or positive feedback will help them see themselves as beautiful or desirable. Some people flat out do not like their bodies, fat or thin. Nice-fitting clothes, lower #s on the weight scale, compliments, etc. won't change how they view themselves in the mirror.


My God, that's a depressing thought...


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## Tad (Oct 22, 2007)

klosterblocked said:


> That said, this is new territory for me. I ask you, Dimensions weight board, what happened in your case? To those who had or have a significant other that was fat for a long period of time, did not enjoy it, then came to enjoy it (or at least no longer felt it made them unattractive), I ask you what happened? What were her feelings? What was her emotional reasoning? What changed?



I've still not totally convinced my wife, after many years. But one small breakthrough recently was looking through a big book of classical paintings, and discussing the bodies of some of the women. In that sort of impersonal situation I was able to make her better understand some of what appealed to me, and why. Much safer than trying to make the same point with real women 

But do keep in mind that if she has never really liked her body, she has a lot of years of practice at disliking it, making negative comparisons, and so on. That is a lot of training to overcome. 

Best of luck!

-Ed


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## Littleghost (Oct 22, 2007)

pinkprincess5 said:


> If you love someone you love them regardless of size/colour etc etc etc and what is liked by one is not by another.Makes the world go round...:wubu:


What was the question?


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## ekmanifest (Oct 22, 2007)

This is a situation I struggle with myself. I think there is something so ingrained in me to believe that my body is not attractive. I am 41 and met my first FA and became involved with the fat acceptance community over the last 6-9 months - so many years of programming to overcome with.

Starting with the man in my life's love of my body, then through looking at the beautiful women on Dimensions, I have been able, to begin accepting that this body I inhabit actually is beautiful. It has given me permission to look at myself and occasionally think, "Damn - you look hot." This has really been life-changing with me.

However, then something happens - today it started with looking at some photos from a fundraising event over the weekend and it wasn't even my body, it was my face- and I just hated the way I looked. Then once that sets in it is there and I just start to get disgusted with myself all over again. I'd be interested in hearing from people who have been in this community for a long time - if those feelings ever totally go away? 

On the other hand, it doesn't mean that tomorrow, when I'm feeling a little better, and a little less tired, and have more energy to do it up with he hair and the makeup and feeling a little more present in my body - that I won't start loving it again. I guess it is just a process. 

This probably doesn't help the original poster much  Just kind of thinking aloud about what his post brought up in me.


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## Fascinita (Oct 22, 2007)

ChrisVersion2 said:


> at this point I'm sure klosterblocked has the same sensation he would have if he just passed a state trooper on the highway.



Chris! You are so cute! Just saw your photo and had to say it. 

To klosterclocked: Mmmm... not sure what you're asking exactly. But maybe you're overthinking it? I know I do that a lot. Maybe just relax and see where it goes with the girl? When you get a little closer, ask if you can kiss her belly and give her some good belly-related vibes.


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## BBWQueen33 (Oct 24, 2007)

I can totally relate to your friend, Klosterblocked. I have been heavy all of my life with a mom who always told me that I needed to loose weight for my health. I lost the weight in high school to fit in better, but I wasn't really happy with myself. (Althought I'm sure my mom was happier.) It didn't feel right.

By the time I entered college I'd put quite a bit back on. Finding a BF who preferred a BBW is what helped me. He always told me that I looked good. Even if I were in just a T-Shirt and some jeans, he still said it. He is what really made me take a step back and take a look at myself and decide that I don't have to be thin to be happy. Regardless of what other people might think. (Plus it helped a lot to know that someone found me, a BBW, attractive.)

I've never looked back and I've never really been interested in loosing weight since.


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## NancyGirl74 (Oct 24, 2007)

Here's my advice because your girl sounds a lot like me...You can't help her. You really can't. You can be there and you can be supportive but only she can help herself. When she's ready she will seek those who can guide her along her road to self acceptance. You have to realize though that her journey might take her down a road that might mean not accepting herself fat. If that is what makes her happy then that's her choice. Other than that, just be there, try to understand, and don't be afraid to show some tough love every now and then. In other words, don't foster the "woe is me" attitude. We all go there whether we are fat or thin. Those who stay in that mind set usually end up never finding acceptance from themselves or others. Those who continue to try and overcome the self doubts stand a chance at winning. 

Best wishes to you both.


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## gangstadawg (Oct 25, 2007)

pinkprincess5 said:


> If you love someone you love them regardless of size/colour etc etc etc and what is liked by one is not by another.Makes the world go round...:wubu:


maybe but thats not going to work 100% of the time i can like some ones personality alot but the physical attraction is a a must (i can only speak for my self) and it does play a part. at least im not stricktly bbw and ssbbws i like a woman thats thick too but nothing smaller than that. basiclly what im saying is that i can love some one due to personlity but because im not physically attracted to them the amount of sex might get reduced heavily (at least for me). 

for example lets say i had a girlfriend (or wife) who was about 300lbs and she some how got down to 120 due to any normal method of losing weight ( loss of weight not due to illness) im not going to be physically attracted to her. i might love her as a person but when it comes to sex its a sure bet that we wont be doing it as much and its not as much as its because i dont want to. its because i cant get "aroused" (or for a better word(s) "erect" or "hard") but then thats me i cant speak for every body.


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## fatgirlflyin (Oct 25, 2007)

gangstadawg said:


> . its because i cant get "aroused" (or for a better word(s) "erect" or "hard") but then thats me i cant speak for every body.



Anyone other than me think about that comcast (might be a california thing) commercial with the turtles where the boy turtle goes "duh" the girl turtle gets mad that the boy turtle says "sorry and or my bad"?

doesn't really relate to the post but it popped into my head and thought I'd share


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## gangstadawg (Oct 25, 2007)

gangstadawg said:


> maybe but thats not going to work 100% of the time i can like some ones personality alot but the physical attraction is a a must (i can only speak for my self) and it does play a part. at least im not stricktly bbw and ssbbws i like a woman thats thick too but nothing smaller than that. basiclly what im saying is that i can love some one due to personlity but because im not physically attracted to them the amount of sex might get reduced heavily (at least for me).
> 
> for example lets say i had a girlfriend (or wife) who was about 300lbs and she some how got down to 120 due to any normal method of losing weight ( loss of weight not due to illness) im not going to be physically attracted to her. i might love her as a person but when it comes to sex its a sure bet that we wont be doing it as much and its not as much as its because i dont want to. its because i cant get "aroused" (or for a better word(s) "erect" or "hard") but then thats me i cant speak for every body.


damn edit button time duration ill repost and edit that last part in my last post in this post.


for example lets say i had a girlfriend (or wife) who was about 300lbs and she some how got down to 120 due to any normal method of losing weight ( loss of weight not due to illness) im not going to be physically attracted to her. i might love her as a person but when it comes to sex its a sure bet that we wont be doing it as much and its not as much as its because i dont want to. its because i cant get "aroused" (or for a better word(s) "erect" or "hard") because im not physically attracted to her. but then thats me i cant speak for every body.


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## NancyGirl74 (Oct 25, 2007)

gangstadawg said:


> for example lets say i had a girlfriend (or wife) who was about 300lbs and she some how got down to 120 due to any normal method of losing weight ( loss of weight not due to illness) im not going to be physically attracted to her. i might love her as a person but when it comes to sex its a sure bet that we wont be doing it as much and its not as much as its because i dont want to. its because i cant get "aroused" (or for a better word(s) "erect" or "hard") because im not physically attracted to her. but then thats me i cant speak for every body.




No disrespect but....

I dunno. Maybe it's just me...but I really hope you don't ever go bald or start sprouting hair out of your ears. I'd hate for your girlfriend (or wife) to tell you that she still loves you as a person but won't be able to have as much sex with you because she can't get "aroused." I sincerely hope no one you love, value, and have committed yourself to ever treats you with the same shallowness you have expressed in your post.


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## wrestlingguy (Oct 25, 2007)

NancyGirl74 said:


> No disrespect but....
> 
> I dunno. Maybe it's just me...but I really hope you don't ever go bald or start sprouting hair out of your ears. I'd hate for your girlfriend (or wife) to tell you that she still loves you as a person but won't be able to have as much sex with you because she can't get "aroused." I sincerely hope no one you love, value, and have committed yourself to ever treats you with the same shallowness you have expressed in your post.



I am srtill staring in the mirror at my bald head and hairy ears................just..........wondering................


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## NancyGirl74 (Oct 25, 2007)

wrestlingguy said:


> I am srtill staring in the mirror at my bald head and hairy ears................just..........wondering................



Personally, I like bald men with hairy ears. It's just my preference.


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## gangstadawg (Oct 25, 2007)

NancyGirl74 said:


> No disrespect but....
> 
> I dunno. Maybe it's just me...but I really hope you don't ever go bald or start sprouting hair out of your ears. I'd hate for your girlfriend (or wife) to tell you that she still loves you as a person but won't be able to have as much sex with you because she can't get "aroused." I sincerely hope no one you love, value, and have committed yourself to ever treats you with the same shallowness you have expressed in your post.


shallow would be a person based on appearance only and would not value the person at all basically ingnoring the personality entirely. thats not what im saying. im saying that yeah i can like a persons personality but i have a physical preference for what i like as well but is not the most important factor that i look for in a woman. i also require a good personality and intelligence as well. if any one of those 3 requirements are not up to par with me its a no go. 

and about the physical requirement with me is not really strict at all especially not to the point of shallowness and ALOT of women meet that pretty easily. its the personality and/or intelligence that alot of times i have to say no to a woman. its usually one or the other and in some cases both but it might be because of the area im in.


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## fatgirlflyin (Oct 25, 2007)

gangstadawg said:


> shallow would be a person based on appearance only and would not value the person at all basically ingnoring the personality entirely. thats not what im saying. im saying that yeah i can like a persons personality but i have a physical preference for what i like as well but is not the most important factor that i look for in a woman. i also require a good personality and intelligence as well. if any one of those 3 requirements are not up to par with me its a no go.
> 
> and about the physical requirement with me is not really strict at all especially not to the point of shallowness and ALOT of women meet that pretty easily. its the personality and/or intelligence that alot of times i have to say no to a woman. its usually one or the other and in some cases both but it might be because of the area im in.




"for example lets say i had a girlfriend (or wife) who was about 300lbs and she some how got down to 120 due to any normal method of losing weight ( loss of weight not due to illness) im not going to be physically attracted to her. i might love her as a person but when it comes to sex its a sure bet that we wont be doing it as much and its not as much as its because i dont want to. its because i cant get "aroused" (or for a better word(s) "erect" or "hard") but then thats me i cant speak for every body."

Those were your words earlier in the thread. Most attraction starts out as physical attraction, but once you've been in a relationship long enough that attraction grows and changes. No one goes through life with the same body/face that they had when they were 21. People get fat or sometimes thin, men go bald that's just a part of life. If you are in a relationship with someone, you're in a relationship with the whole person and eventually that attraction that started out as man he's got nice arms or she's got a great rack becomes wow, she's an awesome mom and wife, he's a great dad, and so on.


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## MisticalMisty (Oct 25, 2007)

Ella Bella said:


> Those were your words earlier in the thread. Most attraction starts out as physical attraction, but once you've been in a relationship long enough that attraction grows and changes. No one goes through life with the same body/face that they had when they were 21. People get fat or sometimes thin, men go bald that's just a part of life. If you are in a relationship with someone, you're in a relationship with the whole person and eventually that attraction that started out as man he's got nice arms or she's got a great rack becomes wow, she's an awesome mom and wife, he's a great dad, and so on.



Before I start, I promise I'm not stalking you..LOL


There is a difference in your body changing due to nature and making the conscious decision to drastically change your body.

I feel like we've had this discussion 5 million times and I always get called out for being on the FAs side. I just can't handle it.

I'm 400 lbs. I know that gangsta is an fa. If he were to ask me out, I would know that part of the attraction for him is that I am a fat woman. Now, if I decided later in life that I am not happy being fat and I'm going to go lose 180 lbs, I wouldn't honestly expect him to be as attracted, or even remotely physically attracted anymore. I went into the relationship knowing his preference for fat women. Granted, my body isn't the only part of me, but we all know that physical attraction and intimacy go hand and hand. Once intimacy is lost..there's not much left for the relationship.

He also made it a point to say that the weight wasn't lost due to illness. It's if the woman made the choice to change her body. Does she have that choice? Damn right, but we also have to realize that when we change our appearance drastically, it can come with ramifications.

I just hate that he's being labeled shallow because he has a preference. We are all hotwired to like what we like. You can't ask that or expect that a man that's attracted to one extreme to be attracted to the opposite extreme.


/takes off her chearleading outfit and puts down her pom poms.


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## The Orange Mage (Oct 25, 2007)

To put the genetic-based/reproduction-based spin on this, we shouldn't put someone down because they no longer find their mate attractive. In the little brains of FAs and FFAs, fatness means fertility, health, and general awesomeness. It's simply against everything our little brains tell us to be sexual with someone who we KNOW is not in their "normal," fat state. In the case of an illness, we generally understand, but when it's a conscious decision to lose weight to be a "normal" weight it's a slow sexual suicide for the relationship, pure and simple.


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## fatgirlflyin (Oct 25, 2007)

MisticalMisty said:


> Before I start, I promise I'm not stalking you..LOL
> 
> 
> There is a difference in your body changing due to nature and making the conscious decision to drastically change your body.
> ...



You are stalking me, but that's ok. 

Wasn't labeling him as shallow, just suggesting that physical attraction isn't the only thing that matters and that in time physical attraction in a relationhip changes. That attraction that once started out as only physical becomes so much more.

I'm not on one side or the other, my taste in men and women run the full spectrum as far as body size goes but I can understand and appreciate the fact that some people like only one or the other. Hell sometimes I wonder what it would be like to be with someone who's really into my fat, especially since its such a part of me.


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## gangstadawg (Oct 25, 2007)

Ella Bella said:


> "for example lets say i had a girlfriend (or wife) who was about 300lbs and she some how got down to 120 due to any normal method of losing weight ( loss of weight not due to illness) im not going to be physically attracted to her. i might love her as a person but when it comes to sex its a sure bet that we wont be doing it as much and its not as much as its because i dont want to. its because i cant get "aroused" (or for a better word(s) "erect" or "hard") but then thats me i cant speak for every body."
> 
> Those were your words earlier in the thread. Most attraction starts out as physical attraction, but once you've been in a relationship long enough that attraction grows and changes. No one goes through life with the same body/face that they had when they were 21. People get fat or sometimes thin, men go bald that's just a part of life. If you are in a relationship with someone, you're in a relationship with the whole person and eventually that attraction that started out as man he's got nice arms or she's got a great rack becomes wow, she's an awesome mom and wife, he's a great dad, and so on.


then im just going to say that i guess ill have to be in a really long term relationship to truly find out for myself (if the physical change is that drastic that is)


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## gangstadawg (Oct 25, 2007)

MisticalMisty said:


> Before I start, I promise I'm not stalking you..LOL
> 
> 
> There is a difference in your body changing due to nature and making the conscious decision to drastically change your body.
> ...



next thing you know she will say if your wife gets a sex change and you leave you are shallow. also if you lost 180 pounds then i wouldnt complain that much. if you got down to like 120 or whatever weight is considered less than thick because of excercise (not an illness) then i dont know. if you lost it because of an illness then i would totally understand.


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## gangstadawg (Oct 25, 2007)

Ella Bella said:


> You are stalking me, but that's ok.
> 
> Wasn't labeling him as shallow, just suggesting that physical attraction isn't the only thing that matters and that in time physical attraction in a relationhip changes. That attraction that once started out as only physical becomes so much more.
> 
> I'm not on one side or the other, my taste in men and women run the full spectrum as far as body size goes but I can understand and appreciate the fact that some people like only one or the other. Hell sometimes I wonder what it would be like to be with someone who's really into my fat, especially since its such a part of me.


so from this i assume that your either bi or a pan-sexual (there is a difference) any ways what do you look for in a mate?


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## fatgirlflyin (Oct 26, 2007)

gangstadawg said:


> so from this i assume that your either bi or a pan-sexual (there is a difference) any ways what do you look for in a mate?




I dont have a set physical preference, what I find attractive in one man/woman I may not find attractive in another. As far as what I look for in a mate that's non physical, I look for (and have in my current mate) someone's who confident in themselves, someone with goals, someone capable of showing and expressing emotion, someone who loves kids, someone who can make me laugh, someone who can challenge me, and someone who I can trust.


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## Fascinita (Oct 26, 2007)

Ella Bella said:


> People get fat or sometimes thin, men go bald that's just a part of life.... she's an awesome mom and wife, he's a great dad, and so on.




Personally, I think baldness only makes a man more attractive. That's just my personal preference.

The other thought I had apropos the above is that you seldom hear men saying that their wife gives them a boner because she's an awesome mom.

And also, I don't understand how you (gangsta) could remain attracted to your mate if she lost weight because of illness but not if she chose to exercise the lbs away. I mean, how is that possible? I thought the idea was that you were "wired" to like women a certain way.

Disclaimer: I don't find essentialist ("we're just made that way") arguments credible.


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## fatgirlflyin (Oct 26, 2007)

Fascinita said:


> Personally, I think baldness only makes a man more attractive. That's just my personal preference.
> 
> The other thought I had apropos the above is that you seldom hear men saying that their wife gives them a boner because she's an awesome mom.




my fiance is bald, I find bald men attractive too. I'd still find him attractive if he decided to grow his hair back, or wear a toupe (sp)

There are all kinds of reasons for people to feel attraction for each other, but the argument that if someone's body changes that the attraction competely goes away doesn't make sense to me. If you've spent the last 20 years of your life with someone, that person isn't gonna look the same at 40 as they did at 20. So if your relationship and your attraction to that person is based soley on their looks there is gonna be a problem there...


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## Fascinita (Oct 26, 2007)

Ella Bella said:


> There are all kinds of reasons for people to feel attraction for each other, but the argument that if someone's body changes that the attraction competely goes away doesn't make sense to me.



Actually, I agree with you on that. Just was adding that particular point because it does seem true.


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## gangstadawg (Oct 26, 2007)

Fascinita said:


> Personally, I think baldness only makes a man more attractive. That's just my personal preference.
> 
> The other thought I had apropos the above is that you seldom hear men saying that their wife gives them a boner because she's an awesome mom.
> 
> ...


i never said i could. i just said i can understand. it was something that happend that she could not control thats basically all i said in that post.


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## gangstadawg (Oct 26, 2007)

Ella Bella said:


> my fiance is bald, I find bald men attractive too. I'd still find him attractive if he decided to grow his hair back, or wear a toupe (sp)
> 
> There are all kinds of reasons for people to feel attraction for each other, but the argument that if someone's body changes that the attraction competely goes away doesn't make sense to me. If you've spent the last 20 years of your life with someone, that person isn't gonna look the same at 40 as they did at 20. So if your relationship and your attraction to that person is based soley on their looks there is gonna be a problem there...


thats old age. thats a lil different. i dont mind wrinkles and i dont mind the breast sagging and dont people usually gain weight as they age?


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## fatgirlflyin (Oct 26, 2007)

gangstadawg said:


> thats old age. thats a lil different. i dont mind wrinkles and i dont mind the breast sagging and dont people usually gain weight as they age?



I've known some people who were smaller old than they were young. Also its really not all that different if you think about it. The outside is changing, whether its from aging, losing or gaining weight, the package that you initially found yourself attracted to isn't the same...


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## gangstadawg (Oct 26, 2007)

Ella Bella said:


> I've known some people who were smaller old than they were young. Also its really not all that different if you think about it. The outside is changing, whether its from aging, losing or gaining weight, the package that you initially found yourself attracted to isn't the same...


wouldnt this same logic apply to a scenario like for example lets say i had a girlfriend or wife and they decided to get a sex change operation because they really felt like they were born the wrong gender and wants me to still be in a relationship the new her (now a him)

the package (or the outside appearance) isnt the same as it used to be but the person is still there personality wise.

note: you already know what my answer is going to be if this really happend in case anyone dont know the answer NO!


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## cliffsurfer (Oct 30, 2007)

Although this is quite an old discussion I kind of want to say how I feel on this topic. I am a FA- always was, more than likely always will be. All my friends I grew up with are not. Many of them now are married and are complaining the other way. My wife or g/f is putting on too much weight and I am not attracted to her, like I was 10 years ago. On that I must say- if my partner (currently unattached) decided to lose weight, more power to her, but I will probably be not as attracted to her. Many guys (I don't want to speak for all) are probably like me- VISUAL and visual beauty is part of the whole package. I wouldn't say it's the only thing, but a big part.


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## gangstadawg (Oct 30, 2007)

cliffsurfer said:


> Although this is quite an old discussion I kind of want to say how I feel on this topic. I am a FA- always was, more than likely always will be. All my friends I grew up with are not. Many of them now are married and are complaining the other way. My wife or g/f is putting on too much weight and I am not attracted to her, like I was 10 years ago. On that I must say- if my partner (currently unattached) decided to lose weight, more power to her, but I will probably be not as attracted to her. Many guys (I don't want to speak for all) are probably like me- VISUAL and visual beauty is part of the whole package. I wouldn't say it's the only thing, but a big part.


THANK YOU!


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## Fascinita (Oct 30, 2007)

Well, that settles it for you two. When your wives/partners get thin, you'll both be leavin'. Fair enough, I think, as long as you let your women know upfront, so they can enter into relationships/vows with you with eyes wide open. Don't you agree?


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## gangstadawg (Oct 31, 2007)

Fascinita said:


> Well, that settles it for you two. When your wives/partners get thin, you'll both be leavin'. Fair enough, I think, as long as you let your women know upfront, so they can enter into relationships/vows with you with eyes wide open. Don't you agree?


why we goot leave them? they might leave us because the bedroom activities might have lost its spark if you know what i mean.


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## Fascinita (Oct 31, 2007)

gangstadawg said:


> why we goot leave them? they might leave us because the bedroom activities might have lost its spark if you know what i mean.



I do get what you mean. So you're saying you wouldn't leave your wife/gf/partner if she got thin? Or seek sexual gratification elsewhere?


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## gangstadawg (Nov 1, 2007)

Fascinita said:


> I do get what you mean. So you're saying you wouldn't leave your wife/gf/partner if she got thin? Or seek sexual gratification elsewhere?


i would leave but im not going to cheat then leave. if one person in a relationship is not happy then the relationship is doomed. if both parties in the relationship are not happy its just not gonna be long lasting.


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## mossystate (Nov 1, 2007)

Fascinita said:


> Well, that settles it for you two. When your wives/partners get thin, you'll both be leavin'. Fair enough, I think, as long as you let your women know upfront, so they can enter into relationships/vows with you with eyes wide open. Don't you agree?



Thing is...the men ( or women ) who believe this way will never have the courage to do it.....gutless.


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## NancyGirl74 (Nov 1, 2007)

If you go into a relationship already prepared to give yourself an easy out then you are sure to find one. Eventually, she'll be too thin, too fat, too old, too gray, too tired, too saggy, too this, or too that and she won't be your ideal any more. The challenge then becomes are you man enough to dig deep and see if you can love beyond the too this's and the too that's. If you can't you'll find that way out and damage the person you claimed to love in the process. You'll damage yourself as well because you will never know if you could have risen above our basest level of human nature which is that when we tire of our pretty, shiny new toy we toss it aside. You'll never know if you can achieve the thing we all claim to want...a love that lasts a life time. The only way to do that is to grow past the three year old mentality of "I want until I tire of it," to the mature, evolved mentality of "I love no matter what." Sure the likelihood of that happening is slim (especially in today's society) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. It doesn't mean someone should head into a relationship already knowing they will walk away if the person they are choosing doesn't remain perfect in their eyes. We should never go into a relationship already anticipating failure. People like that are doomed to disappointment because no human being will ever be able to live up to those expectations. Telling someone you claim to love "I need you not to change" amounts to the same thing as telling them "I need you to change." It doesn't work that way and it shouldn't work that way. If you expect your partner to never, ever change whether physically or emotionally you really don't ever plan to love them fully. People grow and people stay the same. If you don't love them as they are now AND as they might be in the future, do them a favor and don't love them at all. Let them find someone who will love them as is and whatever form of "as is" they may become.


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## gangstadawg (Nov 2, 2007)

NancyGirl74 said:


> If you go into a relationship already prepared to give yourself an easy out then you are sure to find one. Eventually, she'll be too thin, too fat, too old, too gray, too tired, too saggy, too this, or too that and she won't be your ideal any more. The challenge then becomes are you man enough to dig deep and see if you can love beyond the too this's and the too that's. If you can't you'll find that way out and damage the person you claimed to love in the process. You'll damage yourself as well because you will never know if you could have risen above our basest level of human nature which is that when we tire of our pretty, shiny new toy we toss it aside. You'll never know if you can achieve the thing we all claim to want...a love that lasts a life time. The only way to do that is to grow past the three year old mentality of "I want until I tire of it," to the mature, evolved mentality of "I love no matter what." Sure the likelihood of that happening is slim (especially in today's society) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try. It doesn't mean someone should head into a relationship already knowing they will walk away if the person they are choosing doesn't remain perfect in their eyes. We should never go into a relationship already anticipating failure. People like that are doomed to disappointment because no human being will ever be able to live up to those expectations. Telling someone you claim to love "I need you not to change" amounts to the same thing as telling them "I need you to change." It doesn't work that way and it shouldn't work that way. If you expect your partner to never, ever change whether physically or emotionally you really don't ever plan to love them fully. People grow and people stay the same. If you don't love them as they are now AND as they might be in the future, do them a favor and don't love them at all. Let them find someone who will love them as is and whatever form of "as is" they may become.



i know physical appearances change but thats a part (its not the biggest but it plays a role and that cant be denied) of sex is finding the physical at least some what attractive (depends on what you like). emotions is another part. any ways i can love a woman emotion wise but if im not attracted to her to point where sex isnt even worth it or im not happy then im just in a relationship where she is the only one happy and im sacrificing my happines and playing like im happy when im really not. a relationship CANNOT last long if both parties are not happy with the way its going and that includes if only one member is happy.


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## mossystate (Nov 2, 2007)

gangstadawg said:


> i know physical appearances change but thats a part (its not the biggest but it plays a role and that cant be denied) of sex is finding the physical at least some what attractive (depends on what you like). emotions is another part. any ways i can love a woman emotion wise but if im not attracted to her to point where sex isnt even worth it or im not happy then im just in a relationship where she is the only one happy and im sacrificing my happines and playing like im happy when im really not. a relationship CANNOT last long if both parties are not happy with the way its going and that includes if only one member is happy.



I don't think you want to understand...but..I will ask what another poster was getting at....do you tell a woman, right up front, at the beginning, that you will leave her if her appearance changes ' too much '...and you spell out what that means...?


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## gangstadawg (Nov 2, 2007)

mossystate said:


> I don't think you want to understand...but..I will ask what another poster was getting at....do you tell a woman, right up front, at the beginning, that you will leave her if her appearance changes ' too much '...and you spell out what that means...?


this gets tricky. telling really is not a good idea because that looks bad on your part but women have asked me would i. i said that depends how much of a loss and why it happened and i prolly wouldnt leave right a way. since most of the women i date are on the net (myspace, crushspot , fullfiggas...ect) they already know what i like so this question among others are asked so i dont have to bring it up.

ill give you an example . a ex of mine asked me once would i leave her if she lost weight. i replied with depends on how much of a lost? if your still thick then its no real problem. but to the point of being skinny thats really unknown. emotionally i can be with you but physically when it comes to sex this makes thing alot harder for me but who knows maybe it wont happen the way i think it will time will tell.

so i say dont say that you will leave them unless you have been in this situation before and already know what your going to do. this is one of those judgment calls.


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## TraciJo67 (Nov 2, 2007)

mossystate said:


> I don't think you want to understand...but..I will ask what another poster was getting at....do you tell a woman, right up front, at the beginning, that you will leave her if her appearance changes ' too much '...and you spell out what that means...?



Mossy, for some reason I'm getting this very strong mental image of a fat, purple Cheshire cat swatting a tiny mouse around betwixt its fat purple paws, grinning maniacally, before consuming said critter in one giant, crushing gulp.


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## Wagimawr (Nov 2, 2007)

Hmm. Seems this thread is becoming a question of whether a relationship can be sustained after attraction passes.

Also seems that the women are saying "absolutely", and the guys are all over the board everywhere from "it depends" to "probably not".


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## NancyGirl74 (Nov 2, 2007)

gangstadawg said:


> i know physical appearances change but thats a part (its not the biggest but it plays a role and that cant be denied) of sex is finding the physical at least some what attractive (depends on what you like). emotions is another part. any ways i can love a woman emotion wise but if im not attracted to her to point where sex isnt even worth it or im not happy then im just in a relationship where she is the only one happy and im sacrificing my happines and playing like im happy when im really not. a relationship CANNOT last long if both parties are not happy with the way its going and that includes if only one member is happy.





Gangsta,

Clearly, the thought of allowing yourself the possibility to love someone beyond their physical appearance is too taxing for you. Yes, I agree that physical attraction is key to sex. However, in a committed relationship it is key to allow your attractions to grow and change as you and your partner grow and change. If you are unable to grow and change then yes you will end up leaving your mate...From what I can see though she might leave your sorry "I'm-not-attracted-to-you-anymore" ass first. Quite frankly, your inability to evolve emotionally might kill her feelings for you sooner than her diet will kill your desire for her.


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## NancyGirl74 (Nov 2, 2007)

Wagimawr said:


> Hmm. Seems this thread is becoming a question of whether a relationship can be sustained after attraction passes.
> 
> Also seems that the women are saying "absolutely", and the guys are all over the board everywhere from "it depends" to "probably not".




The sad part of this is that any of the men who say a relationship won't last once attraction passes is going to end up in a scene like this:

Him: "Honey, I'm sorry I just don't find you attractive any more. I still love you as a person but I need more. I'll be moving in with Bunny this weekend."

Her: "Larry, I haven't found your hairy, lazy ass attractive in years either. But I put up with the public belching, the farting in the bedroom, the wondering eye, and the last of the toilet paper being used but not replaced because I loved you. However, if you want to move in with Bunny that is just fine...You might want to know that she's been married 4 times before and she only gained those 70 lbs so she could have WLS. Good luck, Larry. Me and the kids will be fine. By the way, your best friend Hank the Roto Rooter Man is hot and we've been fucking in his truck for the past six months. My pipes haven't felt this good in years."

Two years later: She is remarrying the Roto Rooter Man in a lovely outdoor wedding with family, friends, and neighbors all saying that the day Larry left her was the best thing that ever happened to her. 

Down the street: Larry is car pooling Bunny's 5 children to soccer practice because she's at home screwing around with future husband number 6....who, by the way, is also a Roto Rooter Man.


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## TraciJo67 (Nov 2, 2007)

NancyGirl74 said:


> The sad part of this is that any of the men who say a relationship won't last once attraction passes is going to end up in a scene like this:
> 
> Him: "Honey, I'm sorry I just don't find you attractive any more. I still love you as a person but I need more. I'll be moving in with Bunny this weekend."
> 
> ...




Nancy ... I think I love you. No, I *know* I do. That...was.... BRILLIANT.


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## LillyBBBW (Nov 2, 2007)

NancyGirl74 said:


> Gangsta,
> 
> Clearly, the thought of allowing yourself the possibility to love someone beyond their physical appearance is too taxing for you. Yes, I agree that physical attraction is key to sex. However, in a committed relationship it is key to allow your attractions to grow and change as you and your partner grow and change. If you are unable to grow and change then yes you will end up leaving your mate...From what I can see though she might leave your sorry "I'm-not-attracted-to-you-anymore" ass first. Quite frankly, your inability to evolve emotionally might kill her feelings for you sooner than her diet will kill your desire for her.



If you marry a guy who is Catholic and he converts to Islam and wants you to cover yourself in public and attend a nightly reading of the koran to your kids what would you do? Should you just suck it up and go along with it because it's good for his mental health? What about your mental health? We all have dealbreakers. Some people could live with something like that with no problem some people would find it intolerable. Some men would just leave the wife. He's found Allah, why would he want to stay with a woman without the eyes to see the beauty of Islam beyond her own perverse needs and wanton desires? 

Relatioships can't be simplified as if to say, "You love me therefore you must never leave, find fault with anything I do or be disappointed." Love doesn't conquer all, it is a partnership between two people. If you know your partner is a Southern Baptist minister it should come as no surprise that issues will arise if you become an atheist even if it brings you that inner peace that you've desperately sought for so long. Just because religion or fat desire seems silly to you doesn't mean everybody should believe or feel as you do because you are so obviously right.


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## NancyGirl74 (Nov 2, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> If you marry a guy who is Catholic and he converts to Islam and wants you to cover yourself in public and attend a nightly reading of the koran to your kids what would you do? Should you just suck it up and go along with it because it's good for his mental health? What about your mental health? We all have dealbreakers. Some people could live with something like that with no problem some people would find it intolerable. Some men would just leave the wife. He's found Allah, why would he want to stay with a woman without the eyes to see the beauty of Islam beyond her own perverse needs and wanton desires?
> 
> Relatioships can't be simplified as if to say, "You love me therefore you must never leave, find fault with anything I do or be disappointed." Love doesn't conquer all, it is a partnership between two people. If you know your partner is a Southern Baptist minister it should come as no surprise that issues will arise if you become an atheist even if it brings you that inner peace that you've desperately sought for so long. Just because religion or fat desire seems silly to you doesn't mean everybody should believe or feel as you do because you are so obviously right.




There is a difference between your spouse changing his/her whole social belief and value structure and saying you can't love your spouse because he/she isn't physically perfect any more.

I honestly don't know what I would do if my husband changed his religious or social views so drastically. However, I would be more respectful of his choice to leave me due to those changes rather than if he decided my booty just wasn't as bootylicious as it once was and therefore he couldn't find me attractive any more. Both would hurt but one I could respect.

Saying, "I'm sorry I can't stay with you because your values are no longer mine" is much different from saying, "I'm sorry I can't stay with your because you've lost 50 lbs." Yes, physical attraction plays an important role in any relationship. However, I can't get past the absolute gall it would take one person to say some form of the latter to another whom they have promised to love, not just desire but love. How hurtful, selfish, and disrespectful. By all means, if the size of your partners ass, belly, breasts, or thighs makes you that unhappy leave them. Do them a big favor and get thee gone because no one needs that level of shallowness in their lives.

Love does not conquer all and yes, we all have our deal-breakers. But perhaps I am a romantic because I choose to believe that any man or woman who goes into a committed relationship should treat their partner with respect through the various changes life brings...even the tough one's like losing 50 lbs.


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## LillyBBBW (Nov 2, 2007)

NancyGirl74 said:


> There is a difference between your spouse changing his/her whole social belief and value structure and saying you can't love your spouse because he/she isn't physically perfect any more.
> 
> I honestly don't know what I would do if my husband changed his religious or social views so drastically. However, I would be more respectful of his choice to leave me due to those changes rather than if he decided my booty just wasn't as bootylicious as it once was and therefore he couldn't find me attractive any more. Both would hurt but one I could respect.
> 
> ...



In a romantic partnership you need both, not just love. If you leave someone because their values are no longer compatible that doesn't neccesarily mean that you don't love them anymore I don't think? Love, trust, core values, desire -- all play separate but equal roles in a relationship and a relationship can't exist without all unless this was the agreement in the first place. Remove trust and you weaken the foundation. Remove love and you weaken the foundation. We're taught that desire is such a superficial inconsequential frivol but it isn't. I know lots of women who are not attracted to black men, just not their preference. Fortunatley for these women they have no fear of their beloved one day deciding he wants to be a black man but what a debate that would be! Suddenly a preference becomes an indication of how awful she is. It becomes a matter of prejudice where possibly none exists.


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## NancyGirl74 (Nov 2, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> In a romantic partnership you need both, not just love. If you leave someone because their values are no longer compatible that doesn't neccesarily mean that you don't love them anymore I don't think? Love, trust, core values, desire -- all play separate but equal roles in a relationship and a relationship can't exist without all unless this was the agreement in the first place. Remove trust and you weaken the foundation. Remove love and you weaken the foundation. We're taught that desire is such a superficial inconsequential frivol but it isn't. I know lots of women who are not attracted to black men, just not their preference. Fortunatley for these women they have no fear of their beloved one day deciding he wants to be a black man but what a debate that would be! Suddenly a preference becomes an indication of how awful she is. It becomes a matter of prejudice where possibly none exists.




Lilly, I get what you are saying and I agree for the most part. However, I don't know how to make my point any more clear. What I'm focusing on is that leaving one's partner because they have changed physically is shallow and fickle. If a man left his wife for a younger blonde people would be scandalized. If a wife left her husband because he lost his hair we would likely label her a bitch. If a husband left his wife because she gained weight it would be cruel. Why would leaving one's spouse because she lost weight be any different? Is it because he's an FA and he declared his preference that he's allowed the right to be hurtful? Stating your preference for fat before hand gives someone the right to be hurtful *after* years of commitment? I don't think so. I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.

I think this a good topic and it should be discussed further. However, I am bowing out because...well, I'm stubborn and I'm not going to change my mind. I appreciate what you are saying, Lilly and I see the logic in it. Gangsta, I think it's always better to be honest and I hope you always respect your partners by making your preferences clear. And I don't wish upon anyone a callous partner who heartlessly tells them the way they look is more important than who they are. :bow:


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## TraciJo67 (Nov 2, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> In a romantic partnership you need both, not just love. If you leave someone because their values are no longer compatible that doesn't neccesarily mean that you don't love them anymore I don't think? Love, trust, core values, desire -- all play separate but equal roles in a relationship and a relationship can't exist without all unless this was the agreement in the first place. Remove trust and you weaken the foundation. Remove love and you weaken the foundation. We're taught that desire is such a superficial inconsequential frivol but it isn't. I know lots of women who are not attracted to black men, just not their preference. Fortunatley for these women they have no fear of their beloved one day deciding he wants to be a black man but what a debate that would be! Suddenly a preference becomes an indication of how awful she is. It becomes a matter of prejudice where possibly none exists.



Lilly, I don't think that this is what Nancy is saying at all. Sure, you *do* need both physical and emotional attachments ... but in an ideal partnership, don't you think that these requirements should evolve and change over time? In reality, we ALL change physically, weight completely independent of the aging process. I do understand, at least on some level, what Ganstadawg was saying ... and I suspect that he is very young, and unattached, and at a time in his life when physical attraction supercedes all other types of connection (and we've ALL been there, Gangsta... I'm not disrespecting you). Ideally, if/when he meets and falls in love with that special someone, the physical attraction will carry them through that heady rush of the honeymoon phase that we 'old marrieds' remember so wistfully & oh so fondly  Once that intense, "we're driving each other mad with lust & longing" phase starts to pass (and it will), what's next? I suppose if physical attraction is the key element ... the relationship is doomed. I mean, hell, Brad Pitt got tired of fucking Jennifer Aniston. Where does that leave the rest of us? 

To me, and I think to Nancy (correct me if I'm wrong, please), the physical attraction is nice, and it's important, but there are other aspects of a committed relationship that are even more important. Things like, loyalty and trust. The ability to laugh with your partner, to see him/her in a light that nobody else ever does, to know that you are loved just as you are too, warts & all (and even if your husband wishes you'd gain 50 or 100 pounds, it's not an absolute requirement for his love). 

That isn't to say that a relationship can exist when there is no physical attraction (well, it can ... it's called 'friendship' ) ... just that, mature & pragmatic people who are involved in loving, longer-term relationships find ways to evolve & change *with* their partners, and to keep things as exciting as they possibly can be ... even after you've seen it all, done it all, time and again ... multiplied by loud, smelly farts in bed and dragon breath and occasional bouts of very unattractive childish petulance. Those are just his complaints. I have a list of my own


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## LillyBBBW (Nov 2, 2007)

TraciJo, I guess I'm relating it to situations that have transpired in my own life. I know this seems like apples and oranges to most people but I've had guys who really really liked me and the feelings were strongly returned but I just didn't have any attraction to them at all. We laughed at each others jokes, finished each others sentences and I thought that maybe one day I would be able to see beyond the physical and allow the person inside to transform him in my eyes but it never happend. Eventually it came to the point where I had to let him know and it was as near unpleasant as I imagined. In every instance the person would ask, "Well what kind of guy ARE you attracted to?" and I could give no answer. The truth is I dont have any specific criteria. Men I've been attracted to were all very different in the looks category so there's no common thread, but no matter what answer I give: tall, short, thin, stout it will make me look like a superficial jerk with no soul because I can't break through the superficial barrier of my lack of physical desire for him. 

I know it is quite different when you are talking about a commited couple who've been together for years and in that time everyone changes and they evolve with each other but that is assuming neither of them has a specific preference for something that is ingrained in their wiring. The person they are with may no longer hold those qualities which would not change the way they feel about them however does this mean the preference will suddenly go away or that they can pretend it doesn't exist? If it doesn't evolve with their partner despite their best efforts does it mean they are a bad person? I can't imagine ever being in that situation myself but if I were and found myself tempted to cheat on my spouse... I don't know, I just couldn't do that. I'm the kind of ninny who would have to tell the truth. Maybe I'm a despicable human being and I agree, no one would think well of me at all but I'd feel worse about cheating or giving my spouse less than the best that he deserves. I don't know, just trying to take a few steps in another person's shoes.


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## Fascinita (Nov 2, 2007)

gangstadawg said:


> so i say dont say that you will leave them unless you have been in this situation before and already know what your going to do. this is one of those judgment calls.



But you do realize that when you are not upfront about your "must have" preferences and you enter into a committed relationship where feelings and attachments grow with time (let's assume), that you are in essence playing with another person's emotions. Right? I have to assume that most fat women you date are not getting skinny overnight, so that at some point an alarm would go off for you and you'd make it clear that the weight loss has to stop or it's the highway for you.

I mean, it sounds a little self-serving when you say that you wouldn't be upfront about your absolute erotic preference. If someone I was considering getting involved with told me he was so intransigent in putting his sexual turns on ahead of everything else, I would thank him for his honesty and explain why I could not enter into any kind of ongoing relationship with him.

Maybe relationships aren't made for people like you, who have erotic turnons so specific and central to what you need in a woman that you're unlikely to be able to commit for the long term if the woman's qualities change or deviate.

As I understand it, it is the nature of people to change over time. IF we can't change and keep the people we love, it's obviously a losing proposition. This is why it would be most honest and least damaging to the people who share their bodies and love with us to make it clear exactly where we're coming from, if we're really sure we can't tolerate what changes may come.

GANGSTA: I also wanted to say that I think it's your absolute prerogative to change your mind, to feel not turned on anymore. What I'm suggesting, though, is that we should treat the people who are good to us with care, that we should be as honest as possible in cases where we have "dealbreaker" preferences like yours. The more sure we are that we cannot commit for the longterm unless we have absolutely everything our way, the more upfront we should be with our potential mates about that.


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## gangstadawg (Nov 3, 2007)

TraciJo67 said:


> Lilly, I don't think that this is what Nancy is saying at all. Sure, you *do* need both physical and emotional attachments ... but in an ideal partnership, don't you think that these requirements should evolve and change over time? In reality, we ALL change physically, weight completely independent of the aging process. I do understand, at least on some level, what Ganstadawg was saying ... and I suspect that he is very young, and unattached, and at a time in his life when physical attraction supercedes all other types of connection (and we've ALL been there, Gangsta... I'm not disrespecting you). Ideally, if/when he meets and falls in love with that special someone, the physical attraction will carry them through that heady rush of the honeymoon phase that we 'old marrieds' remember so wistfully & oh so fondly  Once that intense, "we're driving each other mad with lust & longing" phase starts to pass (and it will), what's next? I suppose if physical attraction is the key element ... the relationship is doomed. I mean, hell, Brad Pitt got tired of fucking Jennifer Aniston. Where does that leave the rest of us?
> 
> To me, and I think to Nancy (correct me if I'm wrong, please), the physical attraction is nice, and it's important, but there are other aspects of a committed relationship that are even more important. Things like, loyalty and trust. The ability to laugh with your partner, to see him/her in a light that nobody else ever does, to know that you are loved just as you are too, warts & all (and even if your husband wishes you'd gain 50 or 100 pounds, it's not an absolute requirement for his love).
> 
> That isn't to say that a relationship can exist when there is no physical attraction (well, it can ... it's called 'friendship' ) ... just that, mature & pragmatic people who are involved in loving, longer-term relationships find ways to evolve & change *with* their partners, and to keep things as exciting as they possibly can be ... even after you've seen it all, done it all, time and again ... multiplied by loud, smelly farts in bed and dragon breath and occasional bouts of very unattractive childish petulance. Those are just his complaints. I have a list of my own



whoa whoa whoa im not saying that the beauty part beats everything else. if that was the case then the only type of woman i would go out with is a woman that is beautiful (in my eyes and what i prefer) but would either be an idiot and/or did not have a good personalityand trust me thats not the way i work. I have met a lot of bbws that i physically liked but i had to say NO to a good amount of em because thats all they had was beauty and no intelligence and/or bad personality and i want a woman with those 2 qualities as well and i have mentioned this before.

basically if a woman meets only my physical preferance but is not intelligent or does not have a good personality then its a no go.


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## Fascinita (Nov 3, 2007)

gangstadawg said:


> and i want a woman with those 2 qualities as well and i have mentioned this before.
> 
> basically if a woman meets only my physical preferance but is not intelligent or does not have a good personality then its a no go.



Clearly, you want it all... until you don't want it anymore. 

Good luck!


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## gangstadawg (Nov 3, 2007)

Fascinita said:


> Clearly, you want it all... until you don't want it anymore.
> 
> Good luck!



i wouldnt say it like that. its not that cut and dry. actually definatly not that cut and dry. whats wrong with wanting a woman that has all 3. and i have found alot of woman that have all 3 and unfortuanately a big amout of woman that are missing at least one of the 3 but most cases the one requirment they are missing is the intelligence requirement which kinda shocks me. (and thats why i dont go out with women from the highland park area anymore which is practically apart of detroit which is where a large number of the not so inbtelligent women were from)


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