# The dangers of fat acceptance



## Jack Secret (Mar 10, 2013)

You know that the fat acceptance movement truly is gaining traction when doctors start crowing about how evil and dangerous it is.

Be proud people Be very, very proud


----------



## superodalisque (Mar 10, 2013)

yes, especially since they're even quietly adapting various aspects of HAES


----------



## BigBeautifulMe (Mar 10, 2013)

When the article starts with a caption that says "Leading board certified bariatric surgeon..." that's all you need to know right there. He has a significant monetary stake in fat people hating their bodies. Sorry, dude, your opinion is no longer valid.


----------



## SD007 (Mar 11, 2013)

Oh doctah Liu, you so sirry.



I'm glad to see that most of the comments are positive though


----------



## CleverBomb (Mar 11, 2013)

SD007 said:


> Oh doctah Liu, you so sirry.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad to see that most of the comments are positive though


Um, even his wrong (and likely selfishly-motivated) position doesn't justify the use of ethnic slurs. 

I'd like to think we're better than that, here.


----------



## moonvine (Mar 11, 2013)

Jack Secret said:


> You know that the fat acceptance movement truly is gaining traction when doctors start crowing about how evil and dangerous it is.
> 
> Be proud people Be very, very proud




I was so so so lucky for 11 years to have a doctor who never asked my weight (the nurse did but I refused it and it was no big deal) but never even mentioned it. Now I have moved and must find a new one but I doubt I will ever find another one that is that nice.


----------



## SD007 (Mar 11, 2013)

CleverBomb said:


> Um, even his wrong (and likely selfishly-motivated) position doesn't justify the use of ethnic slurs.
> 
> I'd like to think we're better than that, here.



I was just kidding, man. I talk like that all the time -- I didn't mean to be racist or anything.


----------



## Blackjack (Mar 11, 2013)

SD007 said:


> I was just kidding, man. I talk like that all the time -- I didn't mean to be racist or anything.



Except it's nothing but racist, so...


----------



## Hamdinger (Mar 13, 2013)

Someone pointed out to me once how much money there is to be made from shame. Think of all things from toothpaste to plastic surgery that are marketed by convincing people there is something wrong with them. Your teeth aren't white enough, your skin is too dry, etc.

If someone offers advice on self improvement, ask yourself how much they're making off of it. The worse you feel about your size, the more money these doctors take home.

Someday when I get to hell, I'm gonna make it a point to find these a-holes.


----------



## superodalisque (Mar 16, 2013)

Hamdinger said:


> Someone pointed out to me once how much money there is to be made from shame. Think of all things from toothpaste to plastic surgery that are marketed by convincing people there is something wrong with them. Your teeth aren't white enough, your skin is too dry, etc.
> 
> If someone offers advice on self improvement, ask yourself how much they're making off of it. The worse you feel about your size, the more money these doctors take home.
> 
> Someday when I get to hell, I'm gonna make it a point to find these a-holes.



exactly. and the same goes for any community. people who have so much interest in your being fat or thin or disapproving of the opposite probably have something to gain from it. sometimes it's financial sometimes it's some kind of power. it's really good to always look at possible motives.


----------



## Carmella_Bombshell (Mar 17, 2013)

Is it me or is the diet companies making serious cheddar by at agonizing fat people about their weight and to manipulate that skinny body equals happiness? [email protected]?%! If anything I know that more skinny chicks would like to be More plump! Smh. Happiness comes from accepting your true self fat or skinny!


----------



## superodalisque (Mar 17, 2013)

Carmella_Bombshell said:


> Is it me or is the diet companies making serious cheddar by at agonizing fat people about their weight and to manipulate that skinny body equals happiness? [email protected]?%! If anything I know that more skinny chicks would like to be More plump! Smh. Happiness comes from accepting your true self fat or skinny!



of course it's not your imagination. also a part of itis knowing that their "methods" are purposefully dooming people to fail at their personal goals since they don't really want people to be able to truly manage their weight anyway. they already know they're causing permanent glandular and hormonal damage for people. so they feed people a lot of false info. that actually makes them even fatter than they were before. 

i know a whole lot of thin girls too who'd be happy with being 
left alone to eat what they liked and to still be accepted as the beautiful women they are. the thing is i think they could be if they could only stop giving the media sales vultures so much weight in their life--pun unintended. same as i think fat women should not fight for equality or acceptance but just take it since it's already there to be had. IMO the real need is to finally start being courageous as women instead of waiting for others to approve of us. but i think it's hard to do with so many other women buying into it wholesale and trying to press the bs on everyone else too. sometimes i question other women on their ideas about weight and it's as though they've never once considered that there is an alternative. this is some awesome brainwashing technique. it's like we're living in the middle of stepford.


----------



## Hamdinger (Mar 17, 2013)

I did see a commercial the other day for a weight gain product. It was to help skinny men pack on muscle and women get "womanly curves." They even had testimonials from people who used to be skinny. It's a drop in the bucket compared to all the weight loss crap out there but at least there's enough of a market for it to advertise on TV.

I'd just take em to a steakhouse or Krispy Kreme, but that's me.


----------



## superodalisque (Mar 17, 2013)

eh, maybe we care too much about what the media says anyway. infomercials can't be a roadmap for a life . maybe we've just got to get tougher.


----------



## veggieforever (Mar 18, 2013)

*I was thinking the other day as I was driving home from my local Asda-Walmart with my GIANT 96 Tootsie Roll barrel in the boot of my car, past McDonalds, Burger King, Pizza Hut, along the road from The Golden Chip and Chicken Cottage, turning right at the corner of Stephen's the Bakers and Ameri-Kandy and taking a sharp left at Marmaris fast food outlet thats right next door to The Sweet Stop, Greggs the Bakers, Ashoka Shak, Buffet King, Pizza Boy, Seven Spices, Hong Kong Take Away, Deep Blue Fish Bar, Alari's Chip Shop, Chiquitto's and KFC - I remember thinking WHERE'S A BLOODY GREEN GROCER IN THIS TOWN??????

Fat Acceptance is the only way we CAN go when a person can only see fast food joints for miles and not one fruit and veg monger! Society and our Western culture has a lot to answer for when it cannot accept and embrace the 'human product' that comes of it's highly processed, fat drenched, quick, cheap and easy "food" stuffs (said very loosely!). 

It angers me when we are ostricised for being fat in a food culture that flies the banner for heart disease, strokes and cancer but sells a measley salad bowl, two fruit bags and bottled water thinking that is a sufficiently "healthy" choice to select from WHEREAS the flip-side of its menu has countless burgers, and array of shakes, multitudes of ice cream desserts and sundaes not to mention the pies, brownies and muffins - and says it gives "healthy options" to patrons! The only skinny thing on that menu is the "healthy options section"!!!! It is a Catch 22 and makes no sense at all to me. Fat Acceptance is no bother (fat is by-product of the food industry after all) but crappy, cheap, chemical packed and a potentially lethal food culture that assists in the health detererioration of the nation and targetting the wallets and purses of the poor, that I cannot condone or accept. I didn't mean this to be a rant folks, just food culture and societal values really make me fizz! How do they expect people NOT to get fat on that diet and then reject all notions of Fat Acceptance stating there are other choices! 1ltr or Coke (Big Gulp), a Snickers Bar and a family size bag of Doritos for 99c in Texas (according to BBC Documentary "The Men Who Made Us Fat") - I mean, come on! xXx *


----------



## Dr. Feelgood (Mar 18, 2013)

The "obesity epidemic" is not, IMO, really about food or health at all. It is virtually impossible for most Americans to afford the quality of food our great-grandparents ate a hundred years ago. Meat from free-range animals and organically raised vegetables are too expensive for most of us: we have to rely increasingly on prepackaged convenience foods loaded with salt, sugar, and fats. We are told to follow a diet that only the wealthy can afford; we are urged to enjoy healthful exercise during the hours when all but the independently wealthy have to work; and we are castigated if our second-class diets and exercise regimes produce figures that fall short of the upper-class ideal. Our society demands conformity to an ideal yet takes away the means of achieving that ideal -- for all but the richest of us. It's not about our food or our health: it's about keeping us in our place.


----------



## veggieforever (Mar 18, 2013)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> The "obesity epidemic" is not, IMO, really about food or health at all. It is virtually impossible for most Americans to afford the quality of food our great-grandparents ate a hundred years ago. Meat from free-range animals and organically raised vegetables are too expensive for most of us: we have to rely increasingly on prepackaged convenience foods loaded with salt, sugar, and fats. We are told to follow a diet that only the wealthy can afford; we are urged to enjoy healthful exercise during the hours when all but the independently wealthy have to work; and we are castigated if our second-class diets and exercise regimes produce figures that fall short of the upper-class ideal. Our society demands conformity to an ideal yet takes away the means of achieving that ideal -- for all but the richest of us. It's not about our food or our health: it's about keeping us in our place.



*I can see where you are shooting from and I understand your points. I must say though that you cannot have obesity without food (I am yet to see a fat Ethiopian!) and the most fattening variety (and kinds most BBW's and SSBBW's enjoy the most on this forum for gaining is junk food brands). Fruit and Vegetables do not have to be expensive at all. Non organic and frozen fruit and vegetables, pasta, rice, dried beans and pulses, herbs and spices are so inexpensive we stock our cupboards and freezer with them to make a variety of amazing vegan and vegetarian meals. Meat is the stinger on the wallet (and many would agree meat is a luxury especially in relation to its price when compared with fresh, seasonal fruits and vegetables!) and the money not spent on meats or treats could go towards more nutrient dense foods to pack your cupboards with. This bad food economic hits out at everyone of every class look at Kirsty Alley, Sharon Osbourne, Britney Spears and Christina etc... who have all struggled with their weight and therefore their 'societal acceptance' (which dropped disgustingly, might I add! ). IMHO It is the celeb endorsed diet plans that cost the earth! lol Good food does not have to be out of anyones reach by any standards. It is my experience that pre packaged, processed foods are quite hard on the wallet and the body and when I see them in supermarkets and I know I can make an abundance of amazing, exciting meals for a fraction of their cost. In my opinion, it is just a matter of how you 'play the game'. I choose frozen and seasonal veggies etc and it is so purse friendly instead of ready made alternatives. I also adore cooking - which helps  Exercise can also be utterly free! Walking round the neighbourhood or finding an appropriate home workout plan from the hundreds on Youtube is convenient to do in the privacy of your own home. They even have an SSBBW workout plan on Youtube too! Fat is classless. It doesnt care who you are or how rich or poor. So I cannot agree with you completely especially about your opinion that food is not to blame for obesity. You cannot get fat without it, lets be honest but your points are valid and well made  *


----------



## Jah (Mar 18, 2013)

veggieforever said:


> *I can see where you are shooting from and I understand your points. I must say though that you cannot have obesity without food (I am yet to see a fat Ethiopian!) and the most fattening variety (and kinds most BBW's and SSBBW's enjoy the most on this forum for gaining is junk food brands). Fruit and Vegetables do not have to be expensive at all. Non organic and frozen fruit and vegetables, pasta, rice, dried beans and pulses, herbs and spices are so inexpensive we stock our cupboards and freezer with them to make a variety of amazing vegan and vegetarian meals. Meat is the stinger on the wallet (and many would agree meat is a luxury especially in relation to its price when compared with fresh, seasonal fruits and vegetables!) and the money not spent on meats or treats could go towards more nutrient dense foods to pack your cupboards with. This bad food economic hits out at everyone of every class look at Kirsty Alley, Sharon Osbourne, Britney Spears and Christina etc... who have all struggled with their weight and therefore their 'societal acceptance' (which dropped disgustingly, might I add! ). IMHO It is the celeb endorsed diet plans that cost the earth! lol Good food does not have to be out of anyones reach by any standards. It is my experience that pre packaged, processed foods are quite hard on the wallet and the body and when I see them in supermarkets and I know I can make an abundance of amazing, exciting meals for a fraction of their cost. In my opinion, it is just a matter of how you 'play the game'. I choose frozen and seasonal veggies etc and it is so purse friendly instead of ready made alternatives. I also adore cooking - which helps  Exercise can also be utterly free! Walking round the neighbourhood or finding an appropriate home workout plan from the hundreds on Youtube is convenient to do in the privacy of your own home. They even have an SSBBW workout plan on Youtube too! Fat is classless. It doesnt care who you are or how rich or poor. So I cannot agree with you completely especially about your opinion that food is not to blame for obesity. You cannot get fat without it, lets be honest but your points are valid and well made  *



It is possible to eat healthy and cheap as well as exercise cheaply, but unfortunately that information isn't easily available and not everyone is good at cooking. It would be nice if cheap ways of exercise were advertised so that more people would know. It also would be nice if processed foods could be made healthier for people that aren't good at cooking and if fast food was healthier as well.
I had no idea there was an SSBBW workout plan on Youtube, I would love to see it.


----------



## veggieforever (Mar 18, 2013)

Jah said:


> It is possible to eat healthy and cheap as well as exercise cheaply, but unfortunately that information isn't easily available and not everyone is good at cooking. It would be nice if cheap ways of exercise were advertised so that more people would know. It also would be nice if processed foods could be made healthier for people that aren't good at cooking and if fast food was healthier as well.
> I had no idea there was an SSBBW workout plan on Youtube, I would love to see it.



*So true! Here, here! *


----------



## agouderia (Mar 18, 2013)

veggieforever said:


> * I remember thinking WHERE'S A BLOODY GREEN GROCER IN THIS TOWN?????? *





Dr. Feelgood said:


> It is virtually impossible for most Americans to afford the quality of food our great-grandparents ate a hundred years ago. Meat from free-range animals and organically raised vegetables are too expensive for most of us: we have to rely increasingly on prepackaged convenience foods loaded with salt, sugar, and fats. We are told to follow a diet that only the wealthy can afford;



From my constant travel experience, this actually very much is a UK/US problem (haven't been to Canada enough to be able to tell).
'The Economist' calls it the problem of 'food deserts' - large stretches of communities where you have shops, but not such where you can buy fresh produce, dairy or meat. 
Or if you do find a store which offers these it is very expensive.

(I tend to take a supply of apples & tangerines along on my business trips to the UK for instance because I don't have the time & opportunity to hunt for them).

That still is very different in large parts of continental Europe - here you have various options of buying fresh produce or non-processed/pre-fab basics all over the place.
Green grocers are to be found in most neighborhoods, often run by the people from the immigrant communities (i.e. Turks, Morrocans, Algerians) which offer mainly fruit & vegetables along with a small assortment of other food necessities.
The large, ubiquitous food discount chains like Aldi/Lidl all have sizable sections with very affordable produce at a reasonable to even good quality, with a range of organic products.
Same goes for large supermarkets - they all have fully stocked produce departments with, particularly if you buy the specials of the season, absolutely normal prices.
Then in many parts there are local markets on a daily or once/several times a week basis, where local and regional producers sell directly - these again with good value for money. 

Buying ingredients and making food from scratch still is cheaper than buying something processed/ready-made - particularly if you're doing it for a whole family.

Supermarket produce prices in most parts of the US bring tears to my eyes; looking at quality and variety makes it even worse.

I often wonder why this is the case - i.e. that with the UK crossing 21 miles of Channel can change things so much. 

It must be a mixture of supply - what about the medium sized regional fruit producer & gardening tradition? Has it been lost? - and demand. Why do the green grocers survive in France, Belgium, Germany and not in the UK? 




Jah said:


> It is possible to eat healthy and cheap as well as exercise cheaply, but unfortunately that information isn't easily available and not everyone is good at cooking.



I definitely agree - see above. Even in contintental Europe, where access to and pricing of produce is not a real problem the market share of processed food is rapidly increasing - and the vilified obesity rates with it.

It's not only a time issue - information and education are key; teaching to cook in schools, getting producers to come and show their fresh fruit and vegetables.


----------



## veggieforever (Mar 19, 2013)

*I completely agree with everything below. My travels abroad have made me feel a little ashamed of our poor diets. While in Greece EVERYONE shopped for fresh produce. A young woman of about 19 was in the market place and she had a shopping bag brimming with so many beautiful fruits and vegetables, I almost wish I could have had an invite to her dinner table! Such a young age to be making the correct and most wholesome choices. It is a different diet in the Med. They eat so fresh and so well and I aim to do the same and make similar choices each and every day. I also remember seeing very, very few "fat" or larger people! Everyone was their idea weight and very slim and slender (Especially those aged from 20's to 45+). There is no need for "Fat Acceptance" in these countries as "Fat" seems to be very few and far between due to the fresh and wholesome diet they all follow (What does that say about us??? lol). We do not follow such a clean and fresh diet generally and so our health, physical mobility and overall wellbeing is being scrutinised, so the up-shot of our lazy, sugary, fattening, processed and truly unhealthy diet means we wish slimmer and fitter members of society not to judge us - and for, I'm sure, very valid concerns, they will not accept us wholeheartedly and would wish us to adopt a more natural and healthful lifestyle to elongate our life span and increase our quality of life. So, flip this topic to a more controversial level and say, with all that in mind, WHY should people accept others hurting themselves through their diet??? Accepting "Fat" or "Super Morbid Obesity" is something that most would never condone and human instinct is to take people away from something harmful and guide them towards healing and good physical and mental health and wellness. The truth is being so fat you cannot walk, move, run or breathe efficiently is not as nature intended. We are designed to move and be completely physically strong and able. Western food culture and sedentry lifestyle is changing the human form into something it was never meant to be. Immobility and our next generation not out-living their parents due to our toxic food culture should be saddening, worrying and seen to be actively eradicated through better food education and not something to be embraced and "accepted" as if it is something that "should" be happening or is a "normal occurrance" in our society. It should not be controversial to suggest eating fresh, wholesome foods and cut out junk but I may come under attack for doing so. I can see no good coming from eating a type of food that will likely cause withdrawl symptoms such as mood swings, sweats, neausea, vomiting, shakes and other addictive characteristics when a person discontinues or leaves a large space of time between their next consumption of it. My point for anyone is WHY SHOULD slimmer and healthier members of our society accept their fellow human beings harming themselves? I do not condone verbal abuse from strangers (had it myself when I was larger in my past!). That is disgusting and not acceptable EVER. Food today is ADDICTIVE! (junk and fast varieties) That's frightening. Last year I decided to cut out ALL forms of junk and processed food just to see what would happen...
I am now almost a normal healthy body weight! From nothing more than not eating processed foods, fast foods and fizzy drinks (last had diet cola (or any fizzy drink) Sept '12) and the changes have been phenomenal! These food companies dont care about anyone but the almighty dollar. They dont care about "Acceptance" or what we talk about or hold dear on these forums. They just want us to keep on eating and keep on spending and not think about the consequences to our health. I am playing Devils Advocate here to ask: WHAT are we asking Society at large to "Accept" in regards to fat and also WHY should they "Accept" friends, family, neighbours and aquaintences eating themselves to immobility and premature death?*


----------



## GordoNegro (Mar 19, 2013)

Western civilization will never accept fat, it may make laws to 'tolerate' fat people in a public setting as far as harassment is concerned. There is too much $ involved whether its surgeons, diet gurus, and others when you combine the beauty, diet and medical industry (surgeons). People who are shamed, unhappy or miserable will spend more $ to feel good about themselves.
Pride, self-empowerment while ideal and necessary to get ahead in life, do not line the pockets of those industries. 
It's sad as there are fat people who need mammograms and prostate exams among other things, but their fear and bad experiences with some doctors may have them hold off until the signs can no longer be ignored as opposed to prevented.
I remember NAAFA had a fat friendly doctor list that provided contact info for those doctors and practices where there were positive experiences from fat people/patients of size.


----------



## Blackjack (Mar 19, 2013)

veggieforever said:


> *My point for anyone is WHY SHOULD slimmer and healthier members of our society accept their fellow human beings harming themselves?*



Personally, I'm unfond of your harmful insults to others and I fail to understand how you consider these sorts of comments are appropriate or acceptable here.


----------



## veggieforever (Mar 19, 2013)

Blackjack said:


> Personally, I'm unfond of your harmful insults to others and I fail to understand how you consider these sorts of comments are appropriate or acceptable here.



*There have been no harmful comments or insults posted. My post was all common sense and straight talking on healthy eating IN COMPARISON to unhealthy eating, consequences and providing an alternative view (to which I am VERY entitled) and I would also ask you quote my harmful INSULTS. There are NONE and you also quoted me out of context. Everyone should be treated with dignity and respect but my aim is to find out WHAT is to become of Society if we all just "Accept" and allow things to deepen and worsen and not deal with the emotional issues that go hand in hand with over eating and gross weight gain??? Also isnt this discussion forums on the DANGERS of "Fat Acceptance" after all??? Should I just skip the danger part???*


----------



## Jack Secret (Mar 19, 2013)

Hamdinger said:


> I did see a commercial the other day for a weight gain product. It was to help skinny men pack on muscle and women get "womanly curves." They even had testimonials from people who used to be skinny. It's a drop in the bucket compared to all the weight loss crap out there but at least there's enough of a market for it to advertise on TV.
> 
> I'd just take em to a steakhouse or Krispy Kreme, but that's me.



A weight gain product? Encouraging women to build womanly curves? I thought this was going to be a flash in the pan kind of thing, but one thing is for sure Women do like to work on their womanly curves these days!I hope This is a growing trend :bow::bow::bow::bow:


----------



## Blackjack (Mar 19, 2013)

veggieforever said:


> *the emotional issues that go hand in hand with over eating and gross weight gain???*



You realize that you're referring to the people here when you say this, right? That their bodies are gross and that they suffer from emotional issues?

Are you really incapable of understanding how this is insulting?


----------



## veggieforever (Mar 19, 2013)

Blackjack said:


> You realize that you're referring to the people here when you say this, right? That their bodies are gross and that they suffer from emotional issues?
> 
> Are you really incapable of understanding how this is insulting?



*Again, do you realise that the word "gross" is a reference to the meaning of LARGE and not disgusting???? Like Gross Pay etc Are you capable of reading my input PROPERLY and understanding what I wrote and realising that it is NOT and attack. I am creating the means of DISCUSSION for all users here and providing different aspects of "The Dangers of Fat Acceptance" for everyone to comment on so please stop reading meanings into my words that are simply NOT there. I thank you.*


----------



## bigmac (Mar 19, 2013)

Carmella_Bombshell said:


> Is it me or is the diet companies making serious cheddar by at agonizing fat people about their weight and to manipulate that skinny body equals happiness? [email protected]?%! If anything I know that more skinny chicks would like to be More plump! Smh. Happiness comes from accepting your true self fat or skinny!



Satisfaction is bad for business. If you're happy with your body, hair, car, house, ... whatever -- you're not going to be a good consumer. Many businesses thrive by making people people question their adequacy and the adequacy of their possessions.


----------



## Lamia (Mar 20, 2013)

If people go around accepting themselves then profit margins go down. Businesses have a vested interest in people of all shapes and sizes and shades to hate themselves and buy their shitty products that don't work. 

When I was a fat teen I remember there was another fat girl my size who was so confident, flaunted her body etc. I hated her because I felt she had no right to love herself and was obligated to hate herself just like me. As an adult I wish I had loved myself like that. It takes a strong person to love themselves when the world is screaming for you to fix yourself. I hope she still is confident and loving towards herself. 

I learned that meeting anyone's standards of beauty, but my own led to unhappiness.


----------



## LordQuas (Mar 20, 2013)

"I operate on your guts to get to your brain"

Easily my favorite part of the article


----------



## bigmac (Mar 20, 2013)

LordQuas said:


> "I operate on your guts to get to your brain"
> 
> Easily my favorite part of the article



There's actually some truth to this. WLS cuts nerves that send messages to the brain regarding hunger. Indeed it seems to me that just cutting the appropriate nerves without butchering a patients digestive system could be an effective means of promoting weight loss.


----------



## EMH1701 (Mar 20, 2013)

veggieforever said:


> *Again, do you realise that the word "gross" is a reference to the meaning of LARGE and not disgusting???? Like Gross Pay etc Are you capable of reading my input PROPERLY and understanding what I wrote and realising that it is NOT and attack. I am creating the means of DISCUSSION for all users here and providing different aspects of "The Dangers of Fat Acceptance" for everyone to comment on so please stop reading meanings into my words that are simply NOT there. I thank you.*



The vast majority of people in America do equate fat with disgusting, so why would you assume any of us would interpret the word "gross" differently when it is used in a sentence referring to weight gain? This is a site for average people, not accountants or finance experts of some other variety. Average people interpret words in average ways unless one communicates more clearly. This is something I am learning through Toastmasters. Clear communication makes for fewer errors in interpretation. When in doubt, use the clearest words possible to avoid people misinterpreting what you are trying to tell them.

This is a site for fat acceptance, among other things. Many of us were bullied for years. Some people on this site were abused by their parents. Many people have depression in relation to the bullying and abuse. Depression has serious consequences. So yes, there need to be support groups when we live in a society where people are bullied and abused for their weight. Not everyone here is into gaining -- some just want to accept themselves for who they are and live in a HAES manner. Please don't make the mistake of assuming that everyone here is into the same things.


----------



## Dr. Feelgood (Mar 20, 2013)

EMH1701 said:


> The vast majority of people in America do equate fat with disgusting, so why would you assume any of us would interpret the word "gross" differently when it is used in a sentence referring to weight gain?



Oscar Wilde once said that England and America were two nations divided by a single language, and I think you and Veggieforever have run into one of the differences between American and British usage. You're quite right that the primary meaning of 'gross' in the U.S. is "disgusting." But I believe that its primary meaning in the U.K. is "very large," and that Veggieforever, as a Scotswoman, was using it in that sense with the assumption that her American readers would interpret the word in that way.


----------



## veggieforever (Mar 21, 2013)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Oscar Wilde once said that England and America were two nations divided by a single language, and I think you and Veggieforever have run into one of the differences between American and British usage. You're quite right that the primary meaning of 'gross' in the U.S. is "disgusting." But I believe that its primary meaning in the U.K. is "very large," and that Veggieforever, as a Scotswoman, was using it in that sense with the assumption that her American readers would interpret the word in that way.



Thank you, sweetie. That is the exact issue with the word "gross". It is to emphasise EXCESSIVE and certainly NOT disgusting. I have stated this already but something is definitely lost in translation.


----------



## EMH1701 (Mar 21, 2013)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Oscar Wilde once said that England and America were two nations divided by a single language, and I think you and Veggieforever have run into one of the differences between American and British usage. You're quite right that the primary meaning of 'gross' in the U.S. is "disgusting." But I believe that its primary meaning in the U.K. is "very large," and that Veggieforever, as a Scotswoman, was using it in that sense with the assumption that her American readers would interpret the word in that way.



That is indeed possible. However, this goes to something else I have learned in Toastmasters, and that is know your audience. If you are communicating primarily to people of another country, it is generally wise to know the different meanings of the word. Anyway, I can see where people may misinterpret something accidentally. Not everyone knows the difference between American and British English. I'm a Dr. Who fan and I don't recall this word ever coming up in a Dr. Who episode.


----------



## loopytheone (Mar 21, 2013)

EMH1701 said:


> That is indeed possible. However, this goes to something else I have learned in Toastmasters, and that is know your audience. If you are communicating primarily to people of another country, it is generally wise to know the different meanings of the word. Anyway, I can see where people may misinterpret something accidentally. Not everyone knows the difference between American and British English. I'm a Dr. Who fan and I don't recall this word ever coming up in a Dr. Who episode.



...I so, so hope you are joking with this reply.


----------



## LeoGibson (Mar 21, 2013)

EMH1701 said:


> That is indeed possible. However, this goes to something else I have learned in Toastmasters, and that is know your audience. If you are communicating primarily to people of another country, it is generally wise to know the different meanings of the word. Anyway, I can see where people may misinterpret something accidentally. Not everyone knows the difference between American and British English. I'm a Dr. Who fan and I don't recall this word ever coming up in a Dr. Who episode.



Seriously?


----------



## EMH1701 (Mar 23, 2013)

loopytheone said:


> ...I so, so hope you are joking with this reply.



Excuse me? Why would you hope I was joking?

I honestly do not recall ever seeing the word gross in reference to being big anywhere other than a finance/accounting class, and then only in reference to numbers. If this is actually a common British slang word, it does not appear in popular British fiction over here.


----------



## EMH1701 (Mar 23, 2013)

LeoGibson said:


> Seriously?



Yes. When communicating to a group of people, especially in a debate, people should know their audience. I am completely serious about that.


----------



## LeoGibson (Mar 23, 2013)

EMH1701 said:


> Yes. When communicating to a group of people, especially in a debate, people should know their audience. I am completely serious about that.



Let me get this straight, just so I can understand. Because you and another person or two are ignorant of a word with multiple meanings usage, it is beholden to the speaker of that word to intuitively *know* this and change their word choice accordingly? I have little doubt that just as many knew exactly what she was referring to when using that word, and even those that were possibly unsure at least didn't feel the need to risk injury in their jump down from their moral high horse to put the boots to someone, metaphorically that is.:shocked:

Plus, are you also saying that, never mind centuries of English literature and theatre and over 100 years of highly regarded cinema, that you are going to base your entire knowledge of a word's full English usage by whether or not it has been used in a sub-par science fiction show that happens to have somewhat of a cult following?

Yeah, seriously?


----------



## EMH1701 (Mar 23, 2013)

LeoGibson said:


> Let me get this straight, just so I can understand. Because you and another person or two are ignorant of a word with multiple meanings usage, it is beholden to the speaker of that word to intuitively *know* this and change their word choice accordingly? I have little doubt that just as many knew exactly what she was referring to when using that word, and even those that were possibly unsure at least didn't feel the need to risk injury in their jump down from their moral high horse to put the boots to someone, metaphorically that is.:shocked:
> 
> Plus, are you also saying that, never mind centuries of English literature and theatre and over 100 years of highly regarded cinema, that you are going to base your entire knowledge of a word's full English usage by whether or not it has been used in a sub-par science fiction show that happens to have somewhat of a cult following?
> 
> Yeah, seriously?



Sub-par is your opinion only. Not everyone agrees with you on this particular subject. I've also read multiple works by British authors, including J.K. Rowling, Douglas Adams, C.S. Lewis, and Ian MacLeod. Those of us who are interested in sci-fi/fantasy fiction usually make it a point to search out authors with different perspectives, since that usually means more creative fiction. 

In any case, yes, the responsibility is on the person who is communicating to choose a word that does not have ambiguous meaning to the other party. If I went to London or Australia and made a presentation to a company there in a business sense, I would absolutely be expected to know the difference of the meaning of the words, and would thus have to write my speech accordingly. 

It cannot be assumed in a multi-cultural situation such as an Internet forum that everyone knows every single possible usage of a word which has multiple meanings in different contexts. Therefore, I will continue to argue that anyone writing on an Internet forum, especially one read by people from different countries, should err on the side of caution with word choices, myself included. There was obviously no ill intent here...it was a cultural misunderstanding. But again, I believe in being cautious.


----------



## superodalisque (Mar 24, 2013)

EMH1701 said:


> The vast majority of people in America do equate fat with disgusting, so why would you assume any of us would interpret the word "gross" differently when it is used in a sentence referring to weight gain?



because we should know better and because we aren't the rest of society and should not be interpolating everything the way some in the general public might. if fat folk and people who claim they support them are always thinking of the gross as a reflection of them as a first option just maybe they have issues they still haven't worked out for themselves yet and should. why should anyone here have to orient themselves to the language of prejudice especially among fat people and people who claim to support them. 

there was a time when the word lazy was associated with black folk as in the N word and the word niggardly. why? because slaveholders wanted more free work out of people they could control. so call them lazy to make them work harder. should i as an enlightened black person today take offense at the word lazy? no i shouldn't. people want fat folk to automatically think they are "gross" to sell them diet junk. we shouldn't be falling into that trap.

maybe that perspective should rethought instead of defended . yes people here are "ordinary people" but only to a point. most here are extraordinarily fat and are attracted to those who are extraordinarily fat. so that puts more responsibility on them not to absorb the prejudice of the outside world and reflect it back by continuing to agree with prejudice against by associating themselves with the most negative aspect of the word gross. 

maybe the question should be why is it that when someone uses the word gross some automatically associate it with fat people. they might have some deep seeded prejudices of their own because they are agreeing with the portion of society that would automatically make that association. it does seem like a self hating reaction to me. sounds like someone familiar with the perspective of the closet and someone who thinks they are fat and look gross to me.


----------



## Blackjack (Mar 24, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> maybe the question should be why is it that when someone uses the word gross some automatically associate it with fat people. they might have some deep seeded prejudices of their own because they are agreeing with the portion of society that would automatically make that association. it does seem like a self hating reaction to me. sounds like someone familiar with the perspective of the closet and someone who thinks they are fat and look gross to me.



It actually has to do with the phrase "gross weight gain", which are the exact words that were used. And as that phrase is coming from someone who considers fat people to be "harming themselves", I think that the misinterpretation of the word "gross" as disgusting is not at all far-fetched.


----------



## superodalisque (Mar 24, 2013)

Blackjack said:


> It actually has to do with the phrase "gross weight gain", which are the exact words that were used. And as that phrase is coming from someone who considers fat people to be "harming themselves", I think that the misinterpretation of the word "gross" as disgusting is not at all far-fetched.



like she said it's like the term gross pay. it's not her fault if other people make negative assumptions. if she thinks fat people are harming themselves that's her opinion but* don't help her out by automatically associating your fat friends with being gross.* it's understandable but not emotionally healthy and it could end up making an unintended point for her position. we've got to stop making that connection in our own minds altogether if were really believe we are equal.


----------



## Blackjack (Mar 24, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> like she said it's like the term gross pay. it's not her fault if other people make negative assumptions. if she thinks fat people are harming themselves that's her opinion but* don't help her out by automatically associating your fat friends with being gross.* it's understandable but not emotionally healthy and it could end up making an unintended point for her position. we've got to stop making that connection in our own minds altogether if were really believe we are equal.



Sorry, in the future I'll stop thinking that someone who has used insulting terms towards fat people is using an insulting word towards fat people when that word has another, lesser-used definition that is slightly more common in other areas of the world.

But while we're doing armchair psychology, I'd go ahead and say that your acceptance of her insults, your defense of her harmful opinions, would indicate a level of discomfort and hatred towards yourself and your body and that's not emotionally healthy at all. It'd be awesome if for once you could actually get a grip on how grossly* ignorant you are and how nonconstructive your lengthy commentary proves to be time and time again, especially when it involves telling people who are put off by an insulting phrase that they have to fix how they think about things, as though _they are to blame for being insulted by someone _rather than the person throwing the insults.

Alternatively this whole thing could be avoided by not insulting many of the site members with shit that can be heard everywhere else in the fucking world- another fact that is likely to cause it to be taken as something offensive.

*you choose the definition.


----------



## AuntHen (Mar 24, 2013)

veggieforever said:


> *I was thinking the other day as I was driving home from my local Asda-Walmart with my GIANT 96 Tootsie Roll barrel in the boot of my car, past McDonalds, Burger King, Pizza Hut, along the road from The Golden Chip and Chicken Cottage, turning right at the corner of Stephen's the Bakers and Ameri-Kandy and taking a sharp left at Marmaris fast food outlet thats right next door to The Sweet Stop, Greggs the Bakers, Ashoka Shak, Buffet King, Pizza Boy, Seven Spices, Hong Kong Take Away, Deep Blue Fish Bar, Alari's Chip Shop, Chiquitto's and KFC - I remember thinking WHERE'S A BLOODY GREEN GROCER IN THIS TOWN??????
> 
> Fat Acceptance is the only way we CAN go when a person can only see fast food joints for miles and not one fruit and veg monger! Society and our Western culture has a lot to answer for when it cannot accept and embrace the 'human product' that comes of it's highly processed, fat drenched, quick, cheap and easy "food" stuffs (said very loosely!).
> 
> It angers me when we are ostricised for being fat in a food culture that flies the banner for heart disease, strokes and cancer but sells a measley salad bowl, two fruit bags and bottled water thinking that is a sufficiently "healthy" choice to select from WHEREAS the flip-side of its menu has countless burgers, and array of shakes, multitudes of ice cream desserts and sundaes not to mention the pies, brownies and muffins - and says it gives "healthy options" to patrons! The only skinny thing on that menu is the "healthy options section"!!!! It is a Catch 22 and makes no sense at all to me. Fat Acceptance is no bother (fat is by-product of the food industry after all) but crappy, cheap, chemical packed and a potentially lethal food culture that assists in the health detererioration of the nation and targetting the wallets and purses of the poor, that I cannot condone or accept. I didn't mean this to be a rant folks, just food culture and societal values really make me fizz! How do they expect people NOT to get fat on that diet and then reject all notions of Fat Acceptance stating there are other choices! 1ltr or Coke (Big Gulp), a Snickers Bar and a family size bag of Doritos for 99c in Texas (according to BBC Documentary "The Men Who Made Us Fat") - I mean, come on! xXx *



I understand what you are saying but I also have a problem with your post.

I am fat but I cook most of my meals at home and try to buy organic as often as possible. I eat a wide variety of fruit, vegetables, etc. I would rather make it myself than buy the "bland imitations".

I absolutely hate the assumption that if a person is fat they must be eating "garbage". Maybe I eat too much of said food but I love and *prefer *"good quality food". It really offends me as a fatty... I mean hello! if anyone is going to know what the best food is, it's most likely going to be a fatty


----------



## veggieforever (Mar 24, 2013)

fat9276 said:


> I understand what you are saying but I also have a problem with your post.
> 
> I am fat but I cook most of my meals at home and try to buy organic as often as possible. I eat a wide variety of fruit, vegetables, etc. I would rather make it myself than buy the "bland imitations".
> 
> I absolutely hate the assumption that if a person is fat they must be eating "garbage". Maybe I eat too much of said food but I love and *prefer *"good quality food". It really offends me as a fatty... I mean hello! if anyone is going to know what the best food is, it's most likely going to be a fatty



*My post emphasises the fact that obesity is growing due to the fact that fast food joints are EVERYWHERE and people are not cooking at home as much as they used to fifty years ago and cooking meals via steam cookers, boiling and not in deep fat friers etc, so I fail to see where the problem is  My post was to put a few different POV's across and not just give empty lip service to Fat Acceptance. If you re-read the post you will see that was my only point and not to point the finger. If anything people are not so much to blame for their weight as the ENVIRONMENT they are in. It has been proved that fast foods are addictive and so it can sometimes see a little futile for society at large to expect ANYONE to be average or healthy weight when every food option outside of the house is a fast food one! It's great you are eating healthier home cooked meals. The happiest days I have are spent in my kitchen. It gives a person greater control over what they put into their bodies and when a person eats out as a treat once in a while it just tastes so much better! :eat2:

*


----------



## AuntHen (Mar 24, 2013)

Well, I don't really think food is so much the problem. I grew up in the 80's all that stuff was around and during the World Wars, a lot of processed food was invented/around and people were not as fat.

To me the big difference/culprit... transportation, remote controls, video games, computers, push buttons, gadgets, technology!

I mean the fact that people go to GYMS to get physical activity is just so absurd to me. People used to have big farms and walk a lot. I really think food is sometimes the LEAST to blame but people are still going to say "oh those fatties... they just eat at McDonalds!"

As long as everyone wants things SNAP BOOM in an instant at their fingertips, the higher possibility of overweight people there are going to be. It's a trend that society should have planned for/realized long ago (or at least admitted to).


----------



## veggieforever (Mar 24, 2013)

fat9276 said:


> Well, I don't really think food is so much the problem. I grew up in the 80's all that stuff was around and during the World Wars, a lot of processed food was invented/around and people were not as fat.
> 
> To me the big difference/culprit... transportation, remote controls, video games, computers, push buttons, gadgets, technology!
> 
> ...


*

I agree with your post completely but you cannot have excessive weight gain with a sedentery lifestyle alone. You need the fast food to go with it and there are a gazillion more fast food joints now than in the 80's and since their launch here in Britain in the 80's our nation has just gotten fatter and fatter. I also include processed sugary foods in that too not just fast food places but the availability of high calorie foods has (pardon the pun!) "saturated" our supermarkets and nationwide shops and sugar dense, calorie laden foods are just a few steps away from anyones reach as well as pizza and fast food delivery services that will come to us. The sedentery lifestyle assists in leaps and bounds but we cannot have one without the other. It would take truck loads of fruit and vegetables to hit exorbitant amounts of weight gain so we must be realistic and say that being overweight has everything to do with calorie dense food and not the opposite. We wouldnt have the epidemic we have today if not for the fast foods and convenience foods available. The Brit documentary "The Men Who Made Us Fat" is available to view on Youtube and backs up my statements entirely.*


----------



## Dr. Feelgood (Mar 24, 2013)

fat9276 said:


> To me the big difference/culprit... transportation, remote controls, video games, computers, push buttons, gadgets, technology!





veggieforever said:


> *I also include processed sugary foods in that too not just fast food places but the availability of high calorie foods has (pardon the pun!) "saturated" our supermarkets and nationwide.*



I believe you're both right. As fat9276 pointed out, there has been an entire lifestyle change over the last sixty years. Before WWII, about 70% of the population was rural and 30% was urban; by 1990, the percentages had reversed. As the cities grew, urban real estate became more expensive, people moved farther, out, and commute time grew. In 2002 I read that the *average* commute time in the San Francisco area was two hours. So more and more people have less and less time and space in which to exercise: add that to the mix. And there are also the obesogens to consider -- chemical compounds in the environment that stimulate our bodies to develop more fat cells. At the present time, a chemical used in the lining of aluminum food cans is being investigated as an obesogen; it 'leaks' into the food in the can, and preliminary studies indicate that it causes people who ingest it to develop additional fat cells: add that to the mix! I'm sure we've just scratched the surface. The fact is that we have gradually -- and largely unknowingly -- created a world in which iit is difficult *not* to be fat ... and then blamed the fat people for it. :doh:


----------



## superodalisque (Mar 24, 2013)

Blackjack said:


> Sorry, in the future I'll stop thinking that someone who has used insulting terms towards fat people is using an insulting word towards fat people when that word has another, lesser-used definition that is slightly more common in other areas of the world.
> 
> But while we're doing armchair psychology, I'd go ahead and say that your acceptance of her insults, your defense of her harmful opinions, would indicate a level of discomfort and hatred towards yourself and your body and that's not emotionally healthy at all. It'd be awesome if for once you could actually get a grip on how grossly* ignorant you are and how nonconstructive your lengthy commentary proves to be time and time again, especially when it involves telling people who are put off by an insulting phrase that they have to fix how they think about things, as though _they are to blame for being insulted by someone _rather than the person throwing the insults.
> 
> ...



no it indicates confidence in myself because i already know i'm not gross. i don't think other fat people are gross and her opinions of me or them could never make me feel that way. i'm not a weakling. i can take her opinions. 

on this site people get offended by absolutely everything. a lot come here itching for a fight. that's okay. but i don't have to adopt that tact because i don't blame how i feel about myself on other people. in fact i could care less about why someone agrees with my being fat or not. i agree with my size and that's all that really matters. 

being butt hurt everyday over prejudice gets you nowhere. only social action does. there are enough truly bad things happening to fat folk like medical discrimination etc... to fight that i don't have to erroneously knit pick something someone says particularly if there is enough other open and clear evidence available. don't make yourself look bad by flying off the handle at something that doesn't make linguistic sense especially when there are probably so many other things that are more solid to point to. arguing about every little thing, especially when you are wrong about the meaning, can make you look flighty. pick your battles so that they'd make sense to anyone and stop weakening your own position. when you debate somebody you have to use our brain as well as your heart. don't let your emotions have so much free reign that they take away the power of your argument. and above all don't make your need to be right make you start to look silly.

i think people in the community often have their hearts in the right place but they don't always think when they react. that's why sometimes when we debate in public we end up on the losing end. this can be a good place to practice the discipline and to sharpen our teeth for public debate. it could actually be a good thing to have some opposition here. it will make us better when it counts. besides, most adults have figured out some folks are just never going to agree with them. that's life.

if it makes you feel better you can fill out one of these: 

View attachment 480251_397915390315826_242220911_n.jpg


----------



## superodalisque (Mar 24, 2013)

i don't think "bad foods" are necessarily the only reasons people are fat. i almost never eat fast food and i'm fat. i probably have it maybe once or twice a year. in fact i usually eat organically. but what people often forget is that healthy food is not necessarily low calorie so that has absolutely nothing to do with weight. i know fat vegans etc... 

however, i do think the processed foods have a whole lot to do with illness. i also think it is a component in why a lot of americans are fat these days. ever since companies like monsanto started putting hormones in milk and other companies started selling feed with hormones to meat producing concerns for poultry pork and beef to gain weight and mature quickly we've seen people get a lot bigger a lot faster and earlier and in greater percentages. the size doesn't bother me but what does bother me is the huge rise in early puberty, and various cancers and diabetes that i feel have nothing to do with size alone but rather the toxins being introduced into all of our bodies. fat is where people store these toxins. but being thin has not exempted anyone from getting these conditions either. people don't think about the fact that most people are "overweight" so it would stand to reason that a greater percentage of us might present with certain diseases, just because there are numerically more of us specially as we get older when there is even ore exposure to potential disease.. 

fat has never been shown scientifically to be an illness. in fact the opposite has generally been true. and even those diseases they claim are fat related are a part of what is called an obesity paradigm in medicine, meaning that the assumption is that being fat causes disease but there is no statistical analysis that actually supports that. in fact every major study ever done on disease contains this obesity paradigm. fat itself has just been an easy scapegoat for doctors who just don't know or care about how to diagnose for a long time. it's only now with healthcare costs getting so out of sight for hospitals that doctors have seriously begun to look at actual causality that can be quantified rather than assumed because hospitals are now going to have to bear the actual costs of their misdiagnosis under Obamacare. for instance they're going to get charged a fine if you are sent home and have to come back to the hospital again with complications. so i have a theory that our health is going to be looked into in a more serious way in the future. 

just like everybody else or maybe moreso, since we are basically little storage modules, fat folk need to concern themselves with exactly WHAT they are putting in their bodies rather than how much they put in them.


----------



## loopytheone (Mar 25, 2013)

veggieforever said:


> *I agree with your post completely but you cannot have excessive weight gain with a sedentery lifestyle alone. You need the fast food to go with it and there are a gazillion more fast food joints now than in the 80's and since their launch here in Britain in the 80's our nation has just gotten fatter and fatter. I also include processed sugary foods in that too not just fast food places but the availability of high calorie foods has (pardon the pun!) "saturated" our supermarkets and nationwide shops and sugar dense, calorie laden foods are just a few steps away from anyones reach as well as pizza and fast food delivery services that will come to us. The sedentery lifestyle assists in leaps and bounds but we cannot have one without the other. It would take truck loads of fruit and vegetables to hit exorbitant amounts of weight gain so we must be realistic and say that being overweight has everything to do with calorie dense food and not the opposite. We wouldnt have the epidemic we have today if not for the fast foods and convenience foods available. The Brit documentary "The Men Who Made Us Fat" is available to view on Youtube and backs up my statements entirely.*



As a lactose intolerant vegetarian who rarely eats anything that isn't home cooked from scratch - thank you very much mummy! - and whom is medically obese I think it is a bit of a scapegoat to say that fast food or whatever is primarily responsible for rising rates of obesity. There are a myriad of causes for it; you seem to be well educated so I'm guessing you are aware of this, my point is just that your posts come off as though you are blaming solely one aspect, junk food. Oddly, five years ago when I ate a lot of processed, high sugar food and didn't have access to most fruits and vegetables I was of a medically normal weight. Now that I have stopped eating such things and started eating meals cooked from home I am medically obese (all 165lbs of me). The type of food available to people is bound to make a big difference and I agree that having so much absolute rubbish around to eat is bound to be an influencing factor in the spread of obesity. But you should be careful not to label it as the main or sole cause for the increase in obesity rates as everybody is different, slender people are exposed to the same 'food environment', so to speak, and everybody is different. It is an interesting point you raised though.


----------



## AuntHen (Mar 25, 2013)

veggieforever said:


> *I agree with your post completely but you cannot have excessive weight gain with a sedentery lifestyle alone. You need the fast food to go with it and there are a gazillion more fast food joints now than in the 80's and since their launch here in Britain in the 80's our nation has just gotten fatter and fatter. I also include processed sugary foods in that too not just fast food places but the availability of high calorie foods has (pardon the pun!) "saturated" our supermarkets and nationwide shops and sugar dense, calorie laden foods are just a few steps away from anyones reach as well as pizza and fast food delivery services that will come to us. The sedentery lifestyle assists in leaps and bounds but we cannot have one without the other. It would take truck loads of fruit and vegetables to hit exorbitant amounts of weight gain so we must be realistic and say that being overweight has everything to do with calorie dense food and not the opposite. We wouldnt have the epidemic we have today if not for the fast foods and convenience foods available. The Brit documentary "The Men Who Made Us Fat" is available to view on Youtube and backs up my statements entirely.*



With technology, came the ability for mass production. If you walked 5 miles to get your fast food, you would most likely not be fat. Malnourished and sickly maybe but I highly doubt *fat*. There are a lot of "slender" and/or "average" people who eat this stuff daily also (especially teens). I would even argue that this type of diet could actually starve you (from lack of nutrients, fiber, etc).

We can argue "which came first, the chicken or the egg" but in this case, the chicken (aka, machinery, etc).

You can sit on your couch and order pizza. Take your car to the nearest Wendy's. Put a frozen dinner in the microwave. The list goes on and on. Everything is there at the touch of a button

We have become/are becoming an easily bored, sedentary society. Regardless of where we get our calories, we aren't really doing anything to burn them off.

My main point was/is, people need to stop stereotyping fat people as the "fast food mongers". If you take Dimensions Food Board for example, you will see a large number of fat people here making and loving good old-fashioned homemade food.


----------



## AuntHen (Mar 25, 2013)

michellepinto said:


> True.... but don't you think in way or another, they maybe a necessary evil? there are people who use it right?



I should have multi-quoted...

Umm, could you please elaborate how this could be necessary? I fail to see your logic.


----------



## truebebeblue (Mar 25, 2013)

Some WLS does this. The sleeve does reduce the ghreling effect. I have very little physical hunger... like 1/100 of pre-op. I have to say it is very liberating. I do not believe the bypass has this same benefit and therefore the old stomach is still sitting empty and shooting that hunger signal to the brain and never gets relief.





bigmac said:


> There's actually some truth to this. WLS cuts nerves that send messages to the brain regarding hunger. Indeed it seems to me that just cutting the appropriate nerves without butchering a patients digestive system could be an effective means of promoting weight loss.


----------



## bigmac (Mar 26, 2013)

truebebeblue said:


> Some WLS does this. The sleeve does reduce the ghreling effect. I have very little physical hunger... like 1/100 of pre-op. I have to say it is very liberating. I do not believe the bypass has this same benefit and therefore the old stomach is still sitting empty and shooting that hunger signal to the brain and never gets relief.



Not an expert in this area but a good friend who had a gastric bypass told me that she wasn't physically hungry after her surgery and that her doctor said this was because (while the stomach was still present) nerves linking the stomach to the brain had been severed.


----------



## EMH1701 (Mar 28, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> i don't think "bad foods" are necessarily the only reasons people are fat. i almost never eat fast food and i'm fat. i probably have it maybe once or twice a year. in fact i usually eat organically. but what people often forget is that healthy food is not necessarily low calorie so that has absolutely nothing to do with weight. i know fat vegans etc...



I agree. I think a lot of it is genetics. Some of it is lack of exercise. Many of us have desk jobs now, and we are expected to actually sit and do work all day. I have been actually yelled at years ago, when I was working as a temp doing data entry, simply because I wanted to get up and stretch my legs for five minutes. In the U.S., companies do have to give breaks if you are working full-time. It is not good when managers discount that. And then they wonder why employees gain weight.

I read somewhere (sorry, I forget where) that you need to exercise over an hour a day if you are obese in order to actually lose weight. The thirty minutes to an hour a day doesn't cut it. So it is misleading to tell people to just take the stairs and park in the back of the parking lot, which is what a lot of health sites tell everyone.

Back when I was dieting and counting calories, I found that I was getting 1500-1700...nowhere near the 2,000 mark that all of the food packages say. So if I was eating 1500-1700 calories on average, why am I still overweight? I'm not a gainer, so I am probably still eating around the same amount of calories/day. My clothes still fit me from last year. I think something is missing in the equation and that all of these health experts are making incorrect assumptions.


----------



## EMH1701 (Mar 28, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> maybe the question should be why is it that when someone uses the word gross some automatically associate it with fat people. they might have some deep seeded prejudices of their own because they are agreeing with the portion of society that would automatically make that association. it does seem like a self hating reaction to me. sounds like someone familiar with the perspective of the closet and someone who thinks they are fat and look gross to me.



You make an interesting point. I think American culture, at least, has been so saturated with negativity towards fat people that most have no other reference when the word is used in a sentence, and will automatically assume such, even when there is no hostility intended. I don't know about other countries, but anti-fat propaganda is very prevalent in America. It is very much a cultural problem and one that we should work to change. I would love to see America embrace more of a HAES approach. Eat healthy, exercise, but quit focusing on weight and physical appearance so much. We are a country apparently obsessed with physical appearance, if you look at our advertising. Eating right and exercising should make everyone's health numbers better, and if it doesn't, then there are other issues besides food and exercise in those numbers.


----------



## melinda333 (Mar 28, 2013)

Not using the word gross would have been wiser and kinder, in my opinion. Because people would think the negative meaning, even if just a passing thought...I would rather avoid that if it was my writing, it just reminded me that some people think I'm gross. English is my second language and both meanings crossed my mind when reading it.

I'm vegetarian and stand on my feet all day due to my work, and I'm still fat.  Maybe people should just stop assuming why people are fat. It shouldn't matter for "acceptance" reasons.


----------



## superodalisque (Mar 29, 2013)

melinda333 said:


> Not using the word gross would have been wiser and kinder, in my opinion. Because people would think the negative meaning, even if just a passing thought...I would rather avoid that if it was my writing, it just reminded me that some people think I'm gross. English is my second language and both meanings crossed my mind when reading it.
> 
> I'm vegetarian and stand on my feet all day due to my work, and I'm still fat.  Maybe people should just stop assuming why people are fat. It shouldn't matter for "acceptance" reasons.



i can understand your point but wouldn't it be healthier to avoid the connective negatively associated thought rather than the word? you wouldn't feel like you were giving in to prejudice if you avoided using a word? it sort of reminds me of black folk who are afraid to eat watermelon in public, or even more pertinent, fat folk who refuse to eat anything at all in public.

so does this mean you really think it is okay to associate fat folk with grossness in it's most negative sense. are you agreeing with the people who think you are "gross"by accepting that negativity swallowing it down and restricting yourself totally from using a part of the english language?

i totally agree though that it should not matter why people are fat


----------



## melinda333 (Mar 29, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> so does this mean you really think it is okay to associate fat folk with grossness in it's most negative sense.



I merely acknowledged both meanings of the word gross when I read it, and it wasn't clear to me which way she meant it, after all she was pretty much bashing fat folk who "eat too much" or eat fast food, etc. It happens to several words or ambiguous sentences. I'm just saying it's better to not be ambiguous whenever possible, specially in a worldwide forum. I didn't say we shouldn't use the word gross in all its meanings, but be sensitive when we do use it.


----------



## superodalisque (Mar 29, 2013)

melinda333 said:


> I merely acknowledged both meanings of the word gross when I read it, and it wasn't clear to me which way she meant it, after all she was pretty much bashing fat folk who "eat too much" or eat fast food, etc. It happens to several words or ambiguous sentences. I'm just saying it's better to not be ambiguous whenever possible, specially in a worldwide forum. I didn't say we shouldn't use the word gross in all its meanings, but be sensitive when we do use it.



but sensitive to whom and for what reason is the real question? sensitive to people who automatically assume they are gross?

also some fat people do eat a lot. what they eat does affect fat people either negatively or positively just as it does with thin people. should we give up on paying attention to those things simply because we are fat? are we simply people who have given up on our bodies altogether just because we are fat?


----------



## melinda333 (Mar 30, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> but sensitive to whom and for what reason is the real question? sensitive to people who automatically assume they are gross?



Yes, I don't see why not. She didn't _need_ to use that word.



superodalisque said:


> also some fat people do eat a lot.



Yes, some. She wasn't so discriminative though.


----------



## superodalisque (Mar 30, 2013)

i still think agreement that fat people should automatically be associated in the negative sense with the word gross is extremely problematic. when someone says the word ho my head doesn't snap back because i already know i'm not that. it's time for fat folk to wake up to the fact that they aren't negatively gross.


----------



## bigmac (Mar 31, 2013)

One of beauties of the English language is that there are always many alternative ways to say basically the same thing. The party in question had many word choices -- by choosing a word widely and negatively associated with fat people -- she chose poorly.

Not the end of the world -- just a poor choice of words -- something we all do from time to time.


----------



## superodalisque (Mar 31, 2013)

keep agreeing to bully yourself and no one else will stop either


----------



## CaAggieGirl (Mar 31, 2013)

When I read gross, I read it the same way as blackjack and Melinda. I use gross, as in large/total, in my day to day work. I still took it as gross = disgusting. Just my two cents.


----------



## Jack Secret (Apr 1, 2013)

I've always been impressed with the character and sense of humor of the folks on this site. Apparently that is becoming a thing of the past

Why in God's name are people kicking a dead horse about a person's questionable use of the word gross? I think we can agree now that the use of the word was at worst a bad idea. The most that anyone should've done is to ask HOW she was using the word, clear up any misunderstanding about the use and move on. Instead, the majority of the God damned thread became combative and just plain ugly.

As if all of that wasn't enough, There is a personal attack launched By a long-contributing member against another long contributing member. Son, what happened to good old-fashioned online etiquette? You know better than that! If somebody says something that you don't like, don't attack them by presuming to know someone's thinking.

You folks used to have so much good stuff to say. Please tell me this isn't the beginning of the end of this website Because it can all fall apart.


----------



## love handles (Apr 16, 2013)

Fat acceptance is probably more healthy than not accepting fat people. A lot of fat people suffer from stress because they don't have equal rights in society. Also some are afraid to go to the doctor because they get told to lose weight so end up more sick as illnesses go undiagnosed. 
Also, fat doesn't mean unhealthy. You can have healthy fat people too. I think people are showing a lot of ignorance and prejudice about fat people.


----------



## veggieforever (May 1, 2013)

So what are the DANGERS of fat acceptance then? It seems to not have truly been discussed.


----------



## EtobicokeFA (May 2, 2013)

veggieforever said:


> So what are the DANGERS of fat acceptance then? It seems to not have truly been discussed.



If there are dangers of fat acceptance, then they would be the mostly be the same as the dangers of general of being fat, be it real or imagined. For the most part those dangers are imaginary, except of one. 

If fat acceptance does take hold it will destroy the billion dollar weight loss industry. 

However, I believe we can all live with that.


----------



## superodalisque (May 2, 2013)

over the years i have grown to think the real dangers of fat acceptance have been internal rather than external with people agreeing that they are unattractive and unwanted and using that as a base for their entire life and living as a victim even while other fat folk outside of it are living a healthily normal life not so chock full of self abuse and negativity. it would be great if fat acceptance were more celebratory but generally it seems that it's mostly a place for people to get their whine and complain on and to be a downer. i'd like to see more happiness gratefulness and appreciation over all. does anyone remember that series designing woman? i loved it when the character who was so worried about being fat basically said that "there are people starving in the world and here i am worrying because i have too much to eat". maybe we need to spend a lot more time getting outside of ourselves and doing something for someone else who is in real trouble. i'd love to see a fat group do a food drive--how appropriate! we love to eat. we would want the rest of the world to eat well too. we are damned lucky to be fat.


----------

