# The FA closet. Are you in or out?



## James (Nov 16, 2009)

This poll is accompanying the FA Myth thread:

_*"Most FAs choose to indefinitely stay in the closet rather than attempt to forge real life relationships with fat people"*_

Whether you identify as an FA or not, obviously this is a poll that can *only be answered by people who have an aesthetic towards fat people*. 

Needless to say its completely anonymous so honest answers please!


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## Blackjack (Nov 16, 2009)

There's a halfway option between in and out that's missing, which is more or less where I'm at. Mainly because I'm not all that outgoing- I'm actually fairly shy and mostly keep to myself. I'll talk about it if I'm asked, but not all that much otherwise.

Except for a handful of people, for personal reasons. Mainly to make my life far, far easier; but these are generally people who I wouldn't really discuss my relationships with anyhow, so no major loss, as far as I'm concerned.


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## joh (Nov 16, 2009)

Happily out of the closest! One of the best decisions of my life!


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## James (Nov 16, 2009)

Blackjack said:


> There's a halfway option between in and out that's missing, which is more or less where I'm at. Mainly because I'm not all that outgoing- I'm actually fairly shy and mostly keep to myself. I'll talk about it if I'm asked, but not all that much otherwise.
> 
> Except for a handful of people, for personal reasons. Mainly to make my life far, far easier; but these are generally people who I wouldn't really discuss my relationships with anyhow, so no major loss, as far as I'm concerned.



I think I'm still in the time window for mod edits on the poll options so I could try and add another option if you can think of an appropriate field to describe where you are at?

For reference, I would define 'out' as being comfortable with dating and ultimately being in a relationship with a fat person. That doesn't mean you actually have to have done so (although that probably helps in terms of being certain with an answer to this poll)... just that one honestly feels comfortable with the idea of living out an otherwise standard relationship with someone who is fat.


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## Jon Blaze (Nov 16, 2009)

James said:


> I think I'm still in the time window for mod edits on the poll options so I could try and add another option if you can think of an appropriate field to describe where you are at?
> 
> For reference, I would define 'out' as being comfortable with dating and ultimately being in a relationship with a fat person. That doesn't mean you actually have to have done so (although that probably helps in terms of being certain with an answer to this poll)... just that one honestly feels comfortable with the idea of living out an otherwise standard relationship with someone who is fat.



I agree with that.

Edit: I'm out in that sense. I feel no need to yell it to the world or flag twirl even, but I always tell the truth, have had relationships with fat partners in the past, and continue to (Attempt lol) to do so.

My family knows, and most of my closer friends know in some way. Usually it's just something I might pop into a conversation if it moves that direction, but I have no desire to discuss it every second.


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## kioewen (Nov 16, 2009)

I LOATHE the "in the closet" terminology, but if it gets the point across, so be it. At any rate, good poll question.

Someday, a follow-up question about how vocal FAs are about their preference would be interesting too.


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## Santaclear (Nov 17, 2009)

Obviously, many of us around Dimensions (at least those who post) aren't in any sort of FA closet.

I would say, though, that nearly every fat woman that I've gotten to know over the years has mentioned the closet thing as being a serious pain-in-the-ass problem.


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## James (Nov 17, 2009)

Santaclear said:


> Obviously, many of us around Dimensions (at least those who post) aren't in any sort of FA closet.
> 
> I would say, though, that nearly every fat woman that I've gotten to know over the years has mentioned this as being a serious pain-in-the-ass problem.



I've heard it a lot from women too. This poll isn't going to be fully representative of all FAs but it will hopefully indicate the distribution amongst those that are willing to vote (assuming honesty). I'm hoping some BBWs and BHMs will chime in on the myth thread to add perspective.


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## superodalisque (Nov 17, 2009)

there are guys who are out on dims and even go to events but aren't out IRL. is that an entirely new category?


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## Santaclear (Nov 17, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> there are guys who are out on dims and even go to events but aren't out IRL. is that an entirely new category?



Yeah, that's true. They're basically closeted then.


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## bmann0413 (Nov 17, 2009)

I am actually out of the closet. I'm glad, too.


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## tonynyc (Nov 17, 2009)

Out and about and happy to forge my fat relationships in real life...


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## James (Nov 17, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> there are guys who are out on dims and even go to events but aren't out IRL. is that an entirely new category?



If someone like this is voting. They've gotta pick one of the first two options in my opinion.


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## Lastminute.Tom (Nov 17, 2009)

out and vocal; especially when drunk


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## The Fez (Nov 18, 2009)

Lastminute.Tom said:


> out and vocal; especially when drunk



This. It doesn't always go down well with girls I've been hitting on either!


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## musicman (Nov 19, 2009)

I'm curious. We all know about those who are out. They are wonderful people, the heroes of fat women everywhere. (Okay, okay, I exaggerate. I know that open FAs can be either "good" or "bad".) And we know about those who want to come out. We encourage them to come into the light, for their own happiness and for the good of fat women everywhere. But what about this third group, the ones who DON'T want to come out? Is there any defense of their position, or are they reprehensible, slimy creatures, who all live double lives and cheat on their non-fat partners? I honestly don't know. Any opinions? (I'm not asking that group to defend itself, and I don't doubt their existence. I'm just wondering how people feel about this. Has anyone observed this species in the wild?)


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## Lastminute.Tom (Nov 19, 2009)

I pity those who cannot accept themselves for who they are for fear of societal rejection or what ever reason. I would say to those people; look at what you have here, is it worth appearing to adheare to the societal norm when inside you never will, if your friends, family, co-workers, if these people would reject you for who you are, then are they really people you want in your life?

Are you going to destroy your chance of happiness so that you fit in?

Who are you trying to please? and why?


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## The Fez (Nov 19, 2009)

It depends on the circumstances. If they're dating a big girl but hiding it from people, then yeah, douchebag, but if they aren't actively seeking to get with a girl and aren't doing anything that otherwise negatively influences others, then it's their right to be in the closet about it.

It's a shame, sure, but they shouldn't be lynched for it. Likewise those who say they're having a hard time coming out of the closet about it shouldn't be given shit (in which case they shouldn't bring it up on the main dimensions forum. christ).


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## BothGunsBlazing (Nov 19, 2009)

In the closet. 

































_With a fat chick_, if you know what I'm sayin'.


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## gangstadawg (Nov 19, 2009)

been out since the 3rd grade. love bbws and ssbbws with a passion.


























_With a fat chick_, if you know what I'm sayin'.












[/QUOTE]


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## Blockierer (Nov 19, 2009)

I cannot hide my wife cause she's too big 
I'm out and proud.


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## thatgirl08 (Nov 19, 2009)

James said:


> I'm hoping some BBWs and BHMs will chime in on the myth thread to add perspective.



I think most FA's are out in the sense that they will date large women and bring them around family & friends and don't act like they are dating them out of pity or despite looks. I don't think you necessarily need to say to everyone, hi, I'm a chubby chaser, to be out. So yeah, based on that definition I'd say most are out. That has been my experience both in talking to people at Dims and in real life. Generally, the FA's I meet in real life aren't part of the community (to my knowledge) but I know they are out because otherwise I wouldn't be privvy to the information. Of course, there are exceptions and I've come into contact with a few. Generally speaking, if they haven't hurt any fat women by leading them on or whatever, I have no problem with that. I don't care if they stay in the closet for the rest of their life. (Although I do think it's wrong to date thin women if you aren't bisizual because they deserve to be with someone that legitimately finds them attractive just as we do.) It's when closet cases go out and sleep with fat women or lead them on and then don't follow up, that pisses me off. Generally though, I think this is a smaller percentage of FA's than out FA's.


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## exile in thighville (Nov 19, 2009)

Santaclear said:


> Obviously, many of us around Dimensions (at least those who post) aren't in any sort of FA closet.



yeah you can't be in the closet behind the anonymity of the internet


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## exile in thighville (Nov 19, 2009)

where's the option for I'M OUT OF THE CLOSET AND WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK IN james


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## joswitch (Nov 19, 2009)

I chopped my closet up years ago and burned that fucker for warmth in the winter!  Never going back!


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## James (Nov 19, 2009)

exile in thighville said:


> where's the option for I'M OUT OF THE CLOSET AND WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK IN james



does anyone ever want to do this? lol


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## musicman (Nov 19, 2009)

joswitch said:


> I chopped my closet up years ago and burned that fucker for warmth in the winter!  Never going back!



No, you're doing it wrong. If you're really out of the closet, you find a woman big enough to keep you warm, and use your wood for something else.


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## Jon Blaze (Nov 19, 2009)

musicman said:


> No, you're doing it wrong. If you're really out of the closet, you find a woman big enough to keep you warm, and use your wood for something else.



"Go make sweet love down by the fire?"


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## kioewen (Nov 20, 2009)

exile in thighville said:


> where's the option for I'M OUT OF THE CLOSET AND WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK IN james



Conversely, I'll bet that there are quite a few men who may have been closeted when they were younger, and wish that they could go back and have a redo, being open about their preference from the beginning -- whether that means chatting up curvy girls whom they always crushed on, but never had the guts to approach, or times when they bit their tongue when curveophobic comments were being made, and wish they'd taken a stand.


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## exile in thighville (Nov 20, 2009)

James said:


> does anyone ever want to do this? lol



can't be just me


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## Dusselchen (Nov 20, 2009)

Some of my friends know it and, more important, my boyfriend knows it.
I don't deny, but I also don't tell everyone about my preferences.
And I don't hide my boyfriend... so I think I'm kinda out. Am I?


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## Santaclear (Nov 20, 2009)

Santaclear said:


> Obviously, many of us around Dimensions (at least those who post) aren't in any sort of FA closet.





exile in thighville said:


> yeah you can't be in the closet behind the anonymity of the internet



I mean people we know, who've either met in real life or posted pictures with our fat girlfriends etc. Sure, some are phonies and there are bound to be closet cases but many are not.


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## exile in thighville (Nov 21, 2009)

i'm not real


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## Dr. Feelgood (Nov 21, 2009)

exile in thighville said:


> i'm not real



And I like that about you. Surrealism is a turn-on.*:smitten:


*This presumably means i am our of the Reality Closet.:happy:


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## musicman (Nov 21, 2009)

Dusselchen said:


> Some of my friends know it and, more important, my boyfriend knows it.
> I don't deny, but I also don't tell everyone about my preferences.
> And I don't hide my boyfriend... so I think I'm kinda out. Am I?



I think that, if you have a fat partner or date fat people, and you don't try to hide it or deny it, then you're out. You don't have to tell complete strangers about your preference.


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## joswitch (Nov 21, 2009)

musicman said:


> I think that, if you have a fat partner or date fat people, and you don't try to hide it or deny it, then you're out. You don't have to tell complete strangers about your preference.



"HEY!!! Hey YOU! Yeah - you in the hat! *I LOVE FAT CHICKS!* Yeah! That's right! I love 'em! Okayz, now go about your day.... .... HEY!!! You in the crap trousers! ...." etc.


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## Jon Blaze (Nov 21, 2009)

joswitch said:


> "HEY!!! Hey YOU! Yeah - you in the hat! *I LOVE FAT CHICKS!* Yeah! That's right! I love 'em! Okayz, now go about your day.... .... HEY!!! You in the crap trousers! ...." etc.



My favorite is what my friend P said:

"I don't end a job interview by saying I like fat chicks." LOL


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## UMBROBOYUM (Nov 21, 2009)

I'm out and about. Those who cant accept me can shove it up their buns and Swivel on it.


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## Lastminute.Tom (Nov 21, 2009)

Jon Blaze said:


> My favorite is what my friend P said:
> 
> "I don't end a job interview by saying I like fat chicks." LOL



hmm, but might be worth a try, do you reckon that you could cry FA discrimination if they didn't hire you?


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## AuntHen (Nov 21, 2009)

joswitch said:


> "HEY!!! Hey YOU! Yeah - you in the hat! *I LOVE FAT CHICKS!* Yeah! That's right! I love 'em! Okayz, now go about your day.... .... HEY!!! You in the crap trousers! ...." etc.




hahahaha.. I am still giggling


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## joswitch (Nov 24, 2009)

fat9276 said:


> hahahaha.. I am still giggling



I'm thinking this is the "talky bit" lead in to a video for a rap song - "I love fat chicks!"...
There will be dancers...
and... jiggling....


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## MrRabbit (Nov 25, 2009)

kioewen said:


> Conversely, I'll bet that there are quite a few men who may have been closeted when they were younger, and wish that they could go back and have a redo, being open about their preference from the beginning -- whether that means chatting up curvy girls whom they always crushed on, but never had the guts to approach, or times when they bit their tongue when curveophobic comments were being made, and wish they'd taken a stand.


Absolutely! I am one of those. I wish I could redo my teens/twenties with the confidence I have now. I have spent evenings and evenings eying at beautiful big girls at a party without having the guts to approach her... I completely missed out on that phase in your development where you experiment and take your first steps to the opposite sex


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## Spiderweb Sitar (Dec 1, 2009)

The boyfriend and I are both polysizual... we discussed FA-typed things before we started dating, sort of in passing. It's since come up a few times (me having a preference for big guys, not so much his preferences), but its sort of an unspoken understanding with us.


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## mediaboy (Dec 1, 2009)

I'm out like George Michael at a central park bathroom.


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## OLD-LOVE (Dec 1, 2009)

the Door Is Half Open.


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## coolag12345 (Dec 1, 2009)

Interesting question; I'm "in the closet" with the exception of one or two people, and that wasn't by choice.

Long story short, my sister's ex-boyfriend was playing around with my iPhone and came across a picture that was... well, let's just say there was no way to pretend it was anything other than what it was. Now he knows, and I'm sure he told my sister; come to think of it, I hope he didn't tell anyone else. :doh: Oh well. 

I try not to be too vocal about my preferences; I date girls based on the girl, not their body. Though there are obviously a few pluses when that girl happens to be a BBW.


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## FredtheFA (Dec 2, 2009)

I did not know about the whole closet deal until I started visiting Dims, but I would say I'm in between, by that I mean I've been single since high school for the most part. The only girls that I would call a GF were definatly fat no question about it. I would have people walk up to me between class periods a without hesitation say hey you can do so much better, but I didn't care for their opinion, what really messed with me is my mom and sister always taking cheap shots whenever they felt. If only they know how much that screwed me up. I guess I started out of the closet to now being in the deepest darkest part of the closet. I won't approach anyone now because I don't want relive to relive that again, but after lurking here for a while I've seen that other have been through much more and still keep moving on I have no excuse to not approach who I feel I beautiful.


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## MrRabbit (Dec 2, 2009)

FredtheFA said:


> ...snip... I have no excuse to not approach who I feel I beautiful.


This is very true. You can try to hide your preference from others, but you cannot hide it from yourself. No matter how hard you try, your preference for big girls will never go away. If you want to find peace with yourself, you will have to accept your preference.


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## JMNYC (Dec 2, 2009)

I love the big girls and I am not shy about telling everyone I know, not that it comes up too often. But it does, hell, yea, I tell people. 

What I am not "out" about is specifics. 

Cellulite. Folds. Rolls. 

I love 'em like some people love lemon cake with white frosting. Love 'em like a boy loves a kite. Like a bird loves a piece of straw that fits the nest just right. 

Cellulite, Folds and Rolls.

And---

BrainsTalentKindnessSenseOfHumorWit---I'm out about liking all that, too.


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## liz (di-va) (Dec 2, 2009)

FredtheFA said:


> ...I have no excuse to not approach who I feel I beautiful.



 Interesting way to put it (has other applications, that)


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## Lastminute.Tom (Dec 5, 2009)

re-reading this thread reminded me of a few matrix quotes



exile in thighville said:


> where's the option for I'M OUT OF THE CLOSET AND WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK IN james





Cypher said:


> 'I know what you're thinking, 'cause right now I'm thinking the same thing. Actually, I've been thinking it ever since I got here: "Why oh why didn't I take the BLUE pill?"'





Cypher said:


> [talking to the unconscious Morpheus]
> 'If you'd told us the truth, we would've told you to shove that red pill right up your ass.'


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## Blanka (Dec 8, 2009)

kioewen said:


> Conversely, I'll bet that there are quite a few men who may have been closeted when they were younger, and wish that they could go back and have a redo, being open about their preference from the beginning -- whether that means chatting up curvy girls whom they always crushed on, but never had the guts to approach, or times when they bit their tongue when curveophobic comments were being made, and wish they'd taken a stand.



Yeah, I wish I had done thigs differently in high school. I didn't let anyone know about my tastes in women till I was like 20, I'm 24 now, and I wish I had been able to date back in highschool rather than starting later because I was too embarrassed to date big girls and had no interest in skinny ones.

I finally told my best friend about it and from there on started letting everyone close to me know. One day my parents asked me if I watched that show the biggest loser and I replied that I hated that show and when they asked me why I stated that "For some reason the women on that show seem to get less and less sexy as the season goes on." 

I was so worried about what people would think about it but it turned out that everyone I know either didn't really care or found it very interesting. I often joke that my best friend and my mom practically introduce me to people by my preferences.


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## samestar (Dec 8, 2009)

I am so in the closet it's not funny! My wife is a BBW and she doesn't understand my thought process. All my friends think I just married her 'cuz I couldn't get a skinny girl. That whole scenario makes me sad. :sad:


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## exile in thighville (Dec 8, 2009)

if your wife knows you like fat ladies that's not the same as closeted just because she won't accept it


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## pickleman357 (Dec 8, 2009)

samestar said:


> I am so in the closet it's not funny! My wife is a BBW and she doesn't understand my thought process. All my friends think I just married her 'cuz I couldn't get a skinny girl. That whole scenario makes me sad. :sad:


 
Honestly if anyone says to your face that you only married a fat girl 'cuz you couldn't get a skinny girl. Tell them that you actually like real women and not ones that look like they're 12. Then apologize for not being a pedifile like they are.

Rude? Yes. Disrespectful to skinny women? Yes. Giving them what they deserve? *Yes.*

Be sure to apologize to any skinny women around you and say something like "I had to say something to shut them up."


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## Blackjack (Dec 8, 2009)

pickleman357 said:


> Honestly if anyone says to your face that you only married a fat girl 'cuz you couldn't get a skinny girl. Tell them that you actually like real women and not ones that look like they're 12. Then apologize for not being a pedifile like they are.
> 
> Rude? Yes. Disrespectful to skinny women? Yes. Giving them what they deserve? *Yes.*
> 
> Be sure to apologize to any skinny women around you and say something like "I had to say something to shut them up."


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## Jon Blaze (Dec 8, 2009)

*FACEPALM*
You didn't post the Star Trek facepalm gif! How could you!?!?!?


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## Blackjack (Dec 8, 2009)

Jon Blaze said:


> *FACEPALM*
> You didn't post the Star Trek facepalm gif! How could you!?!?!?



It says right in the pic!


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## Jon Blaze (Dec 8, 2009)

Blackjack said:


> It says right in the pic!



NO IMPLYING FACEPALMS!


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## Carrie (Dec 8, 2009)

pickleman357 said:


> Honestly if anyone says to your face that you only married a fat girl 'cuz you couldn't get a skinny girl. Tell them that you actually like real women and not ones that look like they're 12. Then apologize for not being a pedifile like they are.
> 
> Rude? Yes. Disrespectful to skinny women? Yes. Giving them what they deserve? *Yes.*
> 
> Be sure to apologize to any skinny women around you and say something like "I had to say something to shut them up."


Newsflash: IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE AN AVOWED FA *WITHOUT* TRASHING THIN WOMEN. 

Jesus, I get tired of this schtick.


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## pickleman357 (Dec 9, 2009)

Carrie said:


> Newsflash: IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE AN AVOWED FA *WITHOUT* TRASHING THIN WOMEN.
> 
> Jesus, I get tired of this schtick.


 
This is called the porcupine defense. It doesn't hurt unless you try and attack it.

I'm really sick and tired of FA's being called freaks because we actually like the original beautiful women.

http://www.xenophilia.net/malta/goddess.jpg

And I'm not thrashing thin women, I'm thrashing the guy's ignorant preferances.

So if you have a better way to turn the tables on these assholes and put them on the defense I'd love to hear it!!!


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## Teleute (Dec 9, 2009)

a) You ARE thrashing thin women, although I know that's not your intent. You're saying that they look like 12-year-olds and that anyone who would want to be interested in them is a pedophile. That's every bit as horrible as saying "fat women look like pigs so if you like them you must be a zoophile". 

b) _Preferences_ aren't ignorant; people are. That guy doesn't like thin women because he's ignorant of the true beauty of BBWs; he likes them because that's what his body tells him is sexy. He would be ignorant for assuming that NOBODY likes fat women, and he would be unquestionably a douche, but liking thin women in and of itself is hardly a sign of ignorance.

c) I think putting someone on the defensive is the wrong move; when people feel attacked, they withdraw, and acceptance of your position is even less likely. I've always had better luck saying "Hardly... I LOVE the curves! I like it when my girlfriend has some squish on her!"


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## pickleman357 (Dec 9, 2009)

a) Well, what do we do about the assholes that do say "fat women look like pigs so if you like them you must be a zoophile"? How many women here have gotten moo-ed at at sometime in their life? 

A sexy skinny girl getting offended because there's actualy a guy out there that doesn't think she's sexy is nothing compared to the offence that a BBW has to go through every day;

Being teased in school
being treated like they have cancer or something by doctors
being told they're going to die by news and media
being told they're ugly every time they walk past a magazine stand
etc...
I think a little taste of what BBWs have to go through EVERY DAY, would be very educational for them.

This is also called counterculture. It needs to happen so we can change the status quo..... unless you're happy with it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterculture

b) Anyone who thinks along these lines
"All my friends think I just married her 'cuz I couldn't get a skinny girl." 
deserves a smack across the face in one way or another. Are you saying we should just let this ignorance reign?

c) Soo.... when an FA is attacked, and someone insults his wife, he should just withdraw?
I'm not withdrawing, if someone insults the woman I love, I stand up for her, period.

Actually, I talked this over with my g/f and she actually came up with a wonderful idea that I think would work wonderfully. If anyone suggests to me that I'm only with my g/f because I couldnt' get a skinny girl, she suggested this. Start talking about how much I love her fat, how her back rolls excite me and how I want to put my dick in her back cleavage, how her upper arm fat is like another pair of boobs, how glorious the feeling is when she's on top of me and I'm being crushed, etc.
I don't think they'll doubt you, or ever bring up the subject again.

Is that a better reply?


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## Jon Blaze (Dec 9, 2009)

No. You played oppression olympics. That's not a good point.


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## Wagimawr (Dec 10, 2009)

pickleman357 said:


> I think a little taste of what BBWs have to go through EVERY DAY, would be very educational for them.
> 
> This is also called counterculture. It needs to happen so we can change the status quo..... unless you're happy with it?


It's the difference between teaching someone that violence is bad by punching their lights out and teaching someone that violence is bad by showing them how to live non-violently.


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## exile in thighville (Dec 10, 2009)

there is no universal standard of beauty

next


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## Gspoon (Dec 10, 2009)

Very much out. I love it too, because it is a part of who I am. People will come and go, and they will say "Hey, there's the guy that likes fat girls". Who cares? My friends make fun of me for it and I am fine with it.

Why am I out? Because there are people who are afraid to show who they are in this world. Generalizing this down a bit, homosexuals. I admire how they are. A lot of people dislike, or are even angered by them. But still you see them out walking about with their significant other. Honestly, who am I to be a coward with who I am?

I love big women, and I always will. People will define me as such because I am not going to say "No! Thats not true!". And as I have said to many of my friends on and offline, If the girl I am attracted to has the confidence with their weight, I owe them the respect of being proud that I am with them and that I find their bodies sexually pleasing to the eye.


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## kioewen (Dec 10, 2009)

pickleman357 said:


> Honestly if anyone says to your face that you only married a fat girl 'cuz you couldn't get a skinny girl. Tell them that you actually like real women and not ones that look like they're 12. Then apologize for not being a pedifile like they are.
> 
> Rude? Yes. Disrespectful to skinny women? Yes. Giving them what they deserve? *Yes.*



I'm giving this a round of applause. There is no point in rebutting ignorance with tepid wishy-washiness. Sometimes, a verbal slap in the face is the best comeback. And the sting just might force them to reevaluate their thinking.


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## pickleman357 (Dec 10, 2009)

Wagimawr said:


> It's the difference between teaching someone that violence is bad by punching their lights out and teaching someone that violence is bad by showing them how to live non-violently.


 
And how would you go about that without them thinking that "he's just saying that to convince himself he loves her when he actually doesn't"? Hmmm?

These were his 'friends' that made the comment. Obviously, they know him, heck they might have been at his wedding. They haven't clued in yet, and he's already probably tried the "nice" method. 

So after the non-offending, nice, happy way doesn't work... then what?

Sometimes, you have to flip a few tables to get your point across.


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## Wagimawr (Dec 10, 2009)

I know it's fun to rip people apart, but you have to ask; how much is that really doing? It's still, at least in theory, better to boost your preferences than it is to tear down the preferences of others.

But, in practice, you're right. 

The other solution is just to cut off people who are intolerant of your sexual preferences; just make it clear in no uncertain terms that if that's how they feel, you don't want to hear from them ever again.


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## Fyreflyintheskye (Dec 10, 2009)

Blockierer said:


> I cannot hide my wife cause she's too big
> I'm out and proud.



*LOL!! *Fred, mein schatze, you are so fricking adorable. I can never say it enough :happy: Your wife is so lucky!!


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## pickleman357 (Dec 10, 2009)

Wagimawr said:


> The other solution is just to cut off people who are intolerant of your sexual preferences; just make it clear in no uncertain terms that if that's how they feel, you don't want to hear from them ever again.


 
That's essentialy the goal, so thanks for understanding!

On a lighter note there should be more options to this poll as I would fall under the;
_I was never in the closet to begin with._


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## Wagimawr (Dec 10, 2009)

pickleman357 said:


> That's essentialy the goal, so thanks for understanding!


Then that can be easily accomplished without being hurtful - UNLESS you tell them something akin to "look, you hate fat people, I get that. I don't, so I don't want anything to do with you" and THEN they don't take you seriously.

Then let them have it.  Too stupid to live, etc...


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## James (Dec 11, 2009)

(_The following has been posted to all current threads for informational purposes only. Please refrain from replying to this post in this thread. If you have questions please PM me. These rule changes have been brought about following significant deliberation between Dimensions moderators and are effective immediately in relation to all future posts._)




> The rules of this forum have been updated. I would encourage forum users to read the full text but in short, the main changes are the following
> 
> Threads or posts considered to be outside of the FA/FFA forum remit will be edited or deleted. Threads will not be moved to other forums. Please consider this before posting. Contact me via PM if you are unsure before posting.
> Discussion of sexual topics must not contain identities other than your own. Excessive objectification or crudeness will also be edited or removed. Keep things respectful.
> ...


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## TraciJo67 (Dec 12, 2009)

I'd encourage you to examine the reasons behind why you feel so angry and defensive, first. In reading what you've written, here and elsewhere in the thread, it seems that you have issues with thin women that extends beyond how larger women are treated in society. 

If you are REALLY interested in changing how people think, you wouldn't be interested in confronting/insulting/shocking them and calling that 'counterculture' as if what you're really doing is trying to change the world. You won't change anything. You'll be left with an angry, offended bigot who still wonders why you're with that fat chick. I'm not suggesting that you cannot choose how you deal with the ignorance. But at least be honest about your motive.

Overall though .... your posts don't seem directed at the "assholes" anyway. They seem directed at thin women and at the type of men who find thin women attractive, and you're splattering the innocent along with the few bigots who do fit the fat-hating mold. 




pickleman357 said:


> a) Well, what do we do about the assholes that do say "fat women look like pigs so if you like them you must be a zoophile"? How many women here have gotten moo-ed at at sometime in their life?
> 
> A sexy skinny girl getting offended because there's actualy a guy out there that doesn't think she's sexy is nothing compared to the offence that a BBW has to go through every day;
> 
> ...


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## LillyBBBW (Dec 12, 2009)

pickleman357 said:


> a) Well, what do we do about the assholes that do say "fat women look like pigs so if you like them you must be a zoophile"? How many women here have gotten moo-ed at at sometime in their life?
> 
> A sexy skinny girl getting offended because there's actualy a guy out there that doesn't think she's sexy is nothing compared to the offence that a BBW has to go through every day;
> 
> ...



You know I used to believe this. I changed my mind though because I got tired of devoting so much of my time to people who don't deserve it, when I'd much rather focus my attention on the people who matter in life. What sealed it for me was when I was out with a guy I was seeing (my first feeder! lol) and we were in the midst of a really special moment. We just sat there in silence for a moment or two when some young thuggish dudes walked by and made a noise. Man, I don't know what it was and I don't even think they were directing it at me, I don't know. My boyfriend got so angry that he began to engage these clods. I whined and said, no, but off he went and the spell was broken. People like that steal more from us than they should be allowed to. By all means stand up for yourself pickleman but don't get so engaged in the battle that you forget the ones closest to you who are more important and engaging.


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## pickleman357 (Dec 12, 2009)

All I'm doing is being myself. I have never been in the closet, nor will I ever. If I had the money I would put a picture of myself on a billboard with the words saying "I love fat chicks!"

Change only happens when people refuse to back down. For example


> Parks, Rosa Louise
> *Parks, Rosa Louise,* 19132005, American civil-rights activist, b. Tuskegee, Ala., as Rosa Louise McCauley. A seamstress and long-time member of the Montgomery, Ala., chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP), her Dec. 1, 1955, arrest for refusing to give up her seat on a municipal bus to a white man sparked the Montgomery bus boycott. This successful protest, which lasted just over a year, marked the emergence of Martin Luther King, Jr., to national prominence as a civil-rights leader and provided the model for future nonviolent movement actions. Fired from her job and unable to find work, Parks moved in 1957 to Detroit, where she remained active in the civil-rights movement and worked (196588) as an aide to Congressman John Conyers. She was awarded the Congressional Gold Medal, Congress's highest honor, in 1999.


 
Discrimination is discrimination. Its not going to change until someone does something. And sometimes all it needs is one person to refuse to back down to start it. 

So if I'm going about it the wrong way Lilly and Traci, what would you suggest I do?


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## Blackjack (Dec 12, 2009)

pickleman357 said:


> All I'm doing is being myself. I have never been in the closet, nor will I ever. If I had the money I would put a picture of myself on a billboard with the words saying "I love fat chicks!"
> 
> Change only happens when people refuse to back down. For example
> 
> ...



There's a difference between not backing down and flat-out insulting people who're completely unrelated to whatever petty squabble you're having with someone who takes issue with who gives you wood.


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## Wagimawr (Dec 12, 2009)

pickleman357 said:


> So if I'm going about it the wrong way Lilly and Traci, what would you suggest I do?


Support fat women and your taste for them WITHOUT bashing thin women and those who have a taste for them.

It's that simple.


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## James (Dec 12, 2009)

Blackjack said:


> There's a difference between not backing down and flat-out insulting people who're completely unrelated to whatever petty squabble you're having with someone who takes issue with who gives you wood.



I agree. Walk the more noble path for as long as its possible. If people continue to be an ass then walk away. If they are your friends then reconsider that relationship with them if they are adamant about being idiots. I've only had one or two friends that I had to jettison on these grounds but I think that this is usually a better choice than descending to the same level of insulting behavior that was the problem in the first place.


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## pickleman357 (Dec 12, 2009)

Blackjack said:


> There's a difference between not backing down and flat-out insulting people who're completely unrelated to whatever petty squabble you're having with someone who takes issue with who gives you wood.


 
So what should I do instead?



Wagimawr said:


> Support fat women and your taste for them WITHOUT bashing thin women and those who have a taste for them.
> 
> It's that simple.


 
If its that simple then it should be easy to give me an example that works!



James said:


> I agree. Walk the more noble path for as long as its possible. If people continue to be an ass then walk away. If they are your friends then reconsider that relationship with them if they are adamant about being idiots. I've only had one or two friends that I had to jettison on these grounds but I think that this is usually a better choice than descending to the same level of insulting behavior that was the problem in the first place.


 
So then how do we stop this insulting behavior? Its not just random people on the street its also things like this!
http://ca.lifestyle.yahoo.com/fashi...ren_ad_says_she_was_fired_for_being_too_large_
So what 'noble' path should I take that will help stop this from happening?


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## Wagimawr (Dec 12, 2009)

Actually, murder works pretty well!


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## pickleman357 (Dec 12, 2009)

Wagimawr said:


> Actually, murder works pretty well!


Not really, since they won't learn anything.


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## Wagimawr (Dec 12, 2009)

Ah, well, if you're looking for teaching, lessons like "GIRLS YOU LIKE ARE FUCKING UGLY" aren't very useful, are they?


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## pickleman357 (Dec 12, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> They seem directed at thin women and at the type of men who find thin women attractive, and you're splattering the innocent along with the few bigots who do fit the fat-hating mold.


 
Question for you though.....
What will it do to a thin woman to know, and I mean _know for a fucking fact_, that there guys out there that don't like thin women. That she doesn't *have* to be thin to be beautiful in someone's eyes?

http://www.cmha.ca/BINS/content_page.asp?cid=3-98



> Our society's preoccupation with body image is reflected in the fact that, at any given time, 70% of women and 35% of men are dieting. More seriously, a 1993 Statistics Canada Survey reported that in women between the ages of 15 and 25, 1-2% have anorexia and 3-5% have bulimia. Eating disorders have the highest mortality rate of all mental illnesses, with 10% to 20% eventually dying from complications.


 
Do you honestly think that if everyone knew that thin wasn't nessisarily beautiful, that women could be beautiful anyway they wanted, that that mortality rate would be so high?


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## LillyBBBW (Dec 12, 2009)

pickleman357 said:


> Question for you though.....
> What will it do to a thin woman to know, and I mean _know for a fucking fact_, that there guys out there that don't like thin women. That she doesn't *have* to be thin to be beautiful in someone's eyes?
> 
> http://www.cmha.ca/BINS/content_page.asp?cid=3-98
> ...



I think everybody is pretty much aware of that in life. There are few people in the world who don't feel ugly or worry that their attraction for someone else might not be mutual. Is there really a reason to get up in someone's face to say, "Damn, you iz ugly!"? People feel that because I'm fat that doing this to me is ok. The message should be "keep it to yourself, pal" -- not "these conditions make it okay, but not yours."


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## TraciJo67 (Dec 12, 2009)

pickleman357 said:


> Question for you though.....
> What will it do to a thin woman to know, and I mean _know for a fucking fact_, that there guys out there that don't like thin women. That she doesn't *have* to be thin to be beautiful in someone's eyes?
> 
> http://www.cmha.ca/BINS/content_page.asp?cid=3-98
> ...



pickleman, I'm a thin(nish) woman - at least, you would think so. And believe me, I know that you wouldn't find me at all attractive. And, that's OK. Also, I think that most thin women know that there are men out there who find women of all shapes and sizes to be lovely. I understand the source of your frustration. I'm not even suggesting that you choose another way to deal with assholes. I'm only saying that if educating people is a goal, alienating and insulting them isn't going to change their minds. If tit for tat is your goal, then by all means, go for it. Someone who would insult you or your girlfriend isn't worth a polite conversation. However, an entire group of people aren't who you should be angry with -- and it seems that way, from what you write. You seem to have an inherent dislike for thin women. If that's not the case, my apologies for reading you wrong.


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## rollhandler (Dec 13, 2009)

kioewen said:


> I LOATHE the "in the closet" terminology, but if it gets the point across, so be it. At any rate, good poll question.
> 
> Someday, a follow-up question about how vocal FAs are about their preference would be interesting too.



I tried that earlier this year but you are right, the timing may have been off and this forum hadn't been started yet. Here is the link if anyone wants to bump the thread with a response.

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55021&highlight=flag+wavers

If the link doesn't get response I may reword the topic and repost the thread differently here in the FA forum.
Rollhandler


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## pickleman357 (Dec 13, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> However, an entire group of people aren't who you should be angry with -- and it seems that way, from what you write. You seem to have an inherent dislike for thin women. If that's not the case, my apologies for reading you wrong.


 
When you put it like that... its not thin women as such. Thin women can be absolutly beautiful, just not in a sexual way in my eyes.

I think its the image of the thin women and what media has done to it that I'm against. How do you break media's hold on an image?


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## Jon Blaze (Dec 13, 2009)

pickleman357 said:


> When you put it like that... its not thin women as such. Thin women can be absolutly beautiful, just not in a sexual way in my eyes.
> 
> I think its the image of the thin women and what media has done to it that I'm against. How do you break media's hold on an image?



If that's the case, then why aren't you fighting the image they're given, while what you like is given the opposite image? 

If the image that they're given is the problem, you DON'T fight them because they exist. You're suppose to be fighting against that image, and if anything to help out women in general: The fact that their bodies are a subject of public opinion on their worth.


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## kioewen (Dec 13, 2009)

rollhandler said:


> I tried that earlier this year but you are right, the timing may have been off and this forum hadn't been started yet.



I recommend re-framing it as a poll, and putting the question to this forum. It might yield interesting results. Might.


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## Teleute (Dec 13, 2009)

pickleman357 said:


> a) Well, what do we do about the assholes that do say "fat women look like pigs so if you like them you must be a zoophile"? How many women here have gotten moo-ed at at sometime in their life?
> 
> A sexy skinny girl getting offended because there's actualy a guy out there that doesn't think she's sexy is nothing compared to the offence that a BBW has to go through every day;
> 
> ...



(bear with me, this will sound kinda strong, but I'm not actually upset with you or trying to attack you - I'm just trying to explain my initial reaction and its relationship to your approach.) 

I'm aware of the definition of counterculture, thank you. And patronizing questions like "...unless you're happy with it?" don't help convert me to think "oh, he's right, this is the only way! Thank you pickleman for opening my eyes!" Instead, they piss me off and make me think "fuck it, this guy is an idiot, it's not worth explaining anything to him." I am a pretty damn patient person, but it took me a good few days to talk myself back into responding here... which I only did because I'm pretty sure you're actually trying to make a difference and not just taking pleasure in being a douche to people. I'm telling you this because it's a similar reaction to what you'll get by using your original statement. The guy isn't going to hear "you're a pedophile for liking skinny women" and think "Oh, this guy must really love fat women to have such a strong reaction." He's going to think "this pathetic little fuck who can only get fat chicks is calling me a pedophile? Who the fuck does he think he is?" There is no lesson learned here! 

A lot of what you're saying seems to be based on dichotomies that don't exist. "BBWs will be the target of prejudice, or skinny women will." "You either smack someone or let their ignorance reign." "Withdraw or stand up by insulting thin women." These are not the only options! :doh: Your response to my point "b" had nothing to do with what I said. Of course I don't think ignorance should reign, or someone should just slink away if their partner is being insulted. That's preposterous, and you know it, and presenting those two approaches as the only options is a rather cheap way to make your own method look better.

What I'm saying is that it will be more effective to assert your preferences than to attack theirs. Your alternative suggestion - talking about how much you love your girlfriend's fat features - is one way to do this (also, it made me laugh). I mean, it'll probably make them think "whoa, what a freak", but it removes any doubt that you really do like the BBWs.

In regards to assholes, feel free to smack them all you want - but my point was you should be verbally bitchslapping THEM, not their preference. "You're a douche" rather than "you're a pedophile". They can't change what they find attractive any more than you can, and their preference for thin women is not what makes them an asshole - and you'd be insulting any friendly non-FAs nearby who might otherwise have supported you, not to mention the thin women. I'm not suggesting you be "wishy-washy" or just sit back and take the abuse; I'm just saying you should be calling them out on the asshole behavior rather than attacking the sexual preference of the majority of society.



pickleman357 said:


> And how would you go about that without them thinking that "he's just saying that to convince himself he loves her when he actually doesn't"? Hmmm?
> 
> These were his 'friends' that made the comment. Obviously, they know him, heck they might have been at his wedding. They haven't clued in yet, and he's already probably tried the "nice" method.
> 
> ...



I don't think he has tried the "nice" method; he said "I'm so in the closet it's not even funny". That doesn't sound to me like he's ever talked to them about how sexy he thinks Queen Latifah is, or mentioned how he loves seeing a woman with some belly hang, or anything else along those lines. Being vocal about loving fat women is something to try BEFORE the table-flipping. 



pickleman357 said:


> Question for you though.....
> What will it do to a thin woman to know, and I mean _know for a fucking fact_, that there guys out there that don't like thin women. That she doesn't *have* to be thin to be beautiful in someone's eyes?
> 
> http://www.cmha.ca/BINS/content_page.asp?cid=3-98
> ...



Yeah, I think you're right that it's important to get the message out there, and I think it's awesome that you're loud and proud about loving fat women. You just don't have to tell thin women they're inherently ugly, or tell potential non-FA allies they're pedophiles, to do it. "I am not attracted to you" is not the same as "no normal person could ever be attracted to you, only pedophiles". Don't go alienating yourself from potential supporters in your attempt to change society's idea of beauty.


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## pickleman357 (Dec 14, 2009)

Teleute said:


> The guy isn't going to hear "you're a pedophile for liking skinny women" and think "Oh, this guy must really love fat women to have such a strong reaction." He's going to think "this pathetic little fuck who can only get fat chicks is calling me a pedophile? Who the fuck does he think he is?" There is no lesson learned here!


 
...very ture.... you're right. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to everyone... I think this is just my frustration with the whole thing getting to me. I'm just cracking under the pile of WTF situtations.
Example; Oprah was being dumped on for gaining back the weight. Her friends... _*"*friends*"*... _said that she was a heart attack waiting to happen. :doh:
Then, you turn the page and litterally on the opposite side of the paper was an artical that says that if you want to prevent heart attacks you should eat chocolate.

Wha... huh... that's just... BLARG :doh::doh::doh:

Sorry again. I'm just frustrated



> In regards to assholes, feel free to smack them all you want - but my point was you should be verbally bitchslapping THEM, not their preference. "You're a douche" rather than "you're a pedophile". They can't change what they find attractive any more than you can, and their preference for thin women is not what makes them an asshole - and you'd be insulting any friendly non-FAs nearby who might otherwise have supported you, not to mention the thin women. I'm not suggesting you be "wishy-washy" or just sit back and take the abuse; I'm just saying you should be calling them out on the asshole behavior rather than attacking the sexual preference of the majority of society.


 
Would pointing out how easily they buy into propoganda and predijuse work? Like its people like them that enabled hitler and the kkk to rise to power? Would that work?


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## Wagimawr (Dec 14, 2009)

pickleman357 said:


> hitler


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## kioewen (Dec 15, 2009)

pickleman357 said:


> . I think this is just my frustration with the whole thing getting to me. I'm just cracking under the pile of WTF situtations.



IMO, it's more like you're cracking under peer pressure here. It's an interesting case of how groupthink can affect members even of a supposedly alternative community.

I still think your initial response was the correct one. People derive great security and complacency from thinking that they're the normal ones, the ones who are in the right. By calling them pedophiles, or whatever, you might in fact shake loose that complacent self-satisfaction. I'm betting that nothing would be more appalling to them than to think that they're abnormal rather than normal. A mere wishy-washy_ "please, oh, please accept that there are all kinds of beauty, kumbayah"_ plea would be worse than useless. A firm statement is the only thing that has even a chance of affecting these kinds of personalities.


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## Teleute (Dec 15, 2009)

pickleman, I totally understand the frustration... I didn't see the Oprah one, but that pisses me off too :doh: And it is satisfying to think of telling them off like that - I just don't think it'll work. 



kioewen said:


> A mere wishy-washy_ "please, oh, please accept that there are all kinds of beauty, kumbayah"_ plea would be worse than useless.



'cause that's totally what I said. Way to read there, champ. Also, please explain to me (in short words, because clearly I'm a naive hippie who can't handle anything more mentally tasking than singing campfire songs) how exactly this is more effective? You're relying on some very big ifs here. For this plan to work, they have to be simultaneously holding on tightly to the idea that they are normal and not tightly enough to the idea of what normal is - not really a likely combination. Then, they have to have the self-awareness to think about the implications of the statement and actually have the "hey, maybe I'm not the normal one here"/"maybe normal isn't what I thought it was" revelation, rather than to just haul off and punch you in the face. Then, IF that combination of things ever happened, you've converted one or two people... but you've still pushed away all the other non-FAs and thin women in the vicinity. How is this a good thing? I get that this course of action is very satisfying as it plays out in your head, but that doesn't make it a good idea in reality.


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## 99Haints (Dec 15, 2009)

Pickle-I think it's futile to try and shout them down in some kind of might-is-right pissing contest. When they're coming at you like that, it's with a sense that they are somehow restoring the social order, and no matter how nasty or cutting your retorts are, it's all just white noise to them, and probably pretty satisfying to have you on the defense. You'll win the battle, but lose the war because you lose face and integrity in letting them push you to these desperate, hateful responses that you don't even mean.

If this open hostility is coming from an idiot family member, or someone else you can't give a "fuck off" and walk away, simply deprive them of this concede that you owe an explanation, because you don't. State your preference in a way that is strong and non-apologetic without the insecure swipes at skinny women. Flip the discussion into being one about their hang ups, not your interests. Shine a bright light on their irrational prejudice, rather than your preference, because that's the truly curious anomaly here-and they don't even know it.


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## pickleman357 (Dec 15, 2009)

When I see, in my mind, telling off a fat-biggot, the biggot is usually in a group of other biggots* directly* laughing at me _and my g/f_.

If, say, I was at a social gathering and I overheard someone say something along the lines of "I don't understand why some guys find fat women attrative." then I would polietly explain how I enjoy things about a bbw that you cannot enjoy with a slim woman. I would not bash him, or his preferences, just inform him.  Example "Back rolls are great! They're like another pair of boobs that you can grope in public and not get arrested! :smitten:"

I still thing there's a time and place for everything, and I understand what you're all saying, and I'll definatly take it into concideration when conversations like that come up.

How does that sound?


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## freakyfred (Dec 15, 2009)

Me and a female friend both like chubby girls and talk about it sometimes but other than that never really been in a situation where it could be mentioned. I don't try to hide it though.


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