# Things to consider about FAs:



## stan_der_man

Things to consider about FAs:
This is the companion list to the FA code of conduct. This is a list of things that fat people should think about when they interact with the FAs in their lives. Things that help FAs to be comfortable with their preference:

Here's my contribution...

1.) Don't always think that you (the fat person) are going to crush or injure a smaller FA. The human body is really quite remarkable in many ways. Constantly dwelling on that can get old after a while, and even seem condescending to a FA. Let the FA have input on what they can handle, then proceed with caution if you are not sure.

2.) Don't automatically assume that a FA has malevolent motives. Having a FA offer to purchase an ice cream cone doesn't necessarily mean that they are trying to stuff you full of food. A simple "no thank you" is adequate.


Please add to the list...


----------



## Emma

3.) Just because a man is an FA don't automatically assume that he will find you attractive. Not all 'normal' men fancy all 'normal' sized girls. So don't accuse them of not being a 'real' FA if they don't fancy you. (Yes, I've seen this happen)


----------



## Tooz

I really need to pay attention to #1. I kind of struggle with that sometimes. As for #2, well...even if they were, I wouldn't get all angry at them. I'm pretty chill about those sorts of things. >__>

Okay, so...I can't think of #4. ;_;


----------



## stan_der_man

tooz said:


> ...
> Okay, so...I can't think of #4. ;_;



I'm totally blanking myself... I thought of a couple of others last night, but now I can't think of them... 

fa_man_stan


----------



## activistfatgirl

Not all FAs are into food or feeding or weight gain, and just because someone is doesn't make them the DEVIL!!!


----------



## chunkeymonkey

Just want to give a shout out to the FA's........Thanks for being you.
I used to think FA's were all the same,I have found out from experience there are multi dimensions of a FA.
The first being... FA's have feelings to, Most Fa's are misunderstood.
They are not all selfish some love to pamper the girls and seeing them happy.....*fantasy dream* FA rubbing my feet and feeding me grapes and bringing me the margarita....... foot rubs, booze,mmmmmmm 
I found a double pleasure of a FA......I Love massages and they love fat(and I have more than a roll or two...ok maybe more) so I am open for a fair trade.
Not all FA's will share their food.I am getting better at ordering my own dessert.
Love the FA's


----------



## liz (di-va)

Ya know, I never really worry about #1. Figure that's part of what y'all are here for...ifyouseewhatImean. And that y'all will speak up if necc...


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

CurvyEm said:


> 3.) Just because a man is an FA don't automatically assume that he will find you attractive. Not all 'normal' men fancy all 'normal' sized girls. So don't accuse them of not being a 'real' FA if they don't fancy you. (Yes, I've seen this happen)



Lol- that is almost as bad as someone saying a member of the opposite sex MUST be gay just that person doesn't find them attractive.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

liz (di-va) said:


> Ya know, I never really worry about #1. Figure that's part of what y'all are here for...ifyouseewhatImean. And that y'all will speak up if necc...




You know, I worry about that, too. But I think if the guy told me flat out he digs fat ladies instead of letting me figure that out on my own, I would think he likes my fat and not worry so much about it "crushing him" (read offend him somehow). Yeah, it comes down to my own insecurities again. :blush:


----------



## Violet_Beauregard

STAN! Yet another fantastic thread!!

I always worry about #1..... I think that's just a fat thing.

#2...not so much....






fa_man_stan said:


> Things to consider about FAs:
> This is the companion list to the FA code of conduct. This is a list of things that fat people should think about when they interact with the FAs in their lives. Things that help FAs to be comfortable with their preference:
> 
> Here's my contribution...
> 
> 1.) Don't always think that you (the fat person) are going to crush or injure a smaller FA. The human body is really quite remarkable in many ways. Constantly dwelling on that can get old after a while, and even seem condescending to a FA. Let the FA have input on what they can handle, then proceed with caution if you are not sure.
> 
> 2.) Don't automatically assume that a FA has malevolent motives. Having a FA offer to purchase an ice cream cone doesn't necessarily mean that they are trying to stuff you full of food. A simple "no thank you" is adequate.
> 
> 
> Please add to the list...


----------



## liz (di-va)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You know, I worry about that, too. But I think if the guy told me flat out he digs fat ladies instead of letting me figure that out on my own, I would think he likes my fat and not worry so much about it "crushing him" (read offend him somehow). Yeah, it comes down to my own insecurities again. :blush:



naw, dude, I *don't* worry about it. really never occurs to me, except occasionally in fun ways (hah). (everybody has insecurities--that's just not where mine lie.) I think most dudes like it, whatever size.


----------



## knottyknicky

#1 rarely occurs to me...i might ask if everythings okay and gauge their reactions, but I rarely think i'll crush them, because I know one of my favorite parts about intimacy is having weight on me as well


----------



## loggamatt

Number 4 (a controversial one perhaps) - If you lose a lot of weight it WILL be some sort of issue. If you're in a loving relationship with the FA and he's a good person he will probably get over it, but don't expect it not to be an issue.

Some BBW seem to expect a guy to love their size when they love their own size, but the minute they want to lose weight expect the guy to suddenly wish that they're thin as well. It really amazes me how much it seems to shock some BBW that it can bother FAs when they lose weight. It's as if some BBW think that deep down we'd find them more attractive if they were thinner regardless of what we say, and the whole FA thing is just a big charade.

I suspect I'll be accused by some of superficiality... so just to clarify, I'm not saying that a FA should leave a BBW partner if she loses weight. I make no comment on that extreme of the situation. I am merely saying that BBW should not expect it to be a non-issue.

*braces himself for being flamed*


----------



## bigplaidpants

loggamatt said:


> Number 4 (a controversial one perhaps) - If you lose a lot of weight it WILL be some sort of issue. If you're in a loving relationship with the FA and he's a good person he will probably get over it, but don't expect it not to be an issue......
> 
> *braces himself for being flamed*



Loggamatt....I'm not gonna flame you.  I think you bring up an important reality for FA's. And, it can be a real tension in FA/BBW (or FFA/BHM) relationships in my experience. But, I DO think its a tension, not a deal breaker. Its a tension that is important to fat/size attraction. Moreover, it is a tension like many in the whole business of erotic attraction and mutual respect. To some degree, some tension lies deep within most or all erotic relationships. Just, for FA's....the issue is size/fat.

While, I'm not going to plumb that tension here. I think it's been tried to varying degrees of failure before.  I will say that the problem of "wanting more/having enough" in terms of size/fat is something that FA's have and NEED to become responsible for. That's my soapbox. I'm not one-sided about the issue. Ultimately, healthy and whole relationship needs dynamic ongoing erotic energy. But, ultimately love and attraction must broaden beyond fat/size. (Catch the irony?  ) 

As James has often said, FAism is a whole package. For FA's it starts with size/fat....and the attraction endures. But, love and attraction eventually demands so much more. And, it should.

Sorry, if I'm preaching. I'll leave it there.


----------



## loggamatt

BPP - Very well said, I agree entirely.

As you say, it's a very big debate that I don't really want to get too deep into either. There's a middle ground in this tension where I think most healthy relationships exist. That some BBW (the minority though, in my experience) don't even see that it should be an issue at all is my only reason for mentioning it.


----------



## magnoliagrows

loggamatt said:


> Number 4 (a controversial one perhaps) - If you lose a lot of weight it WILL be some sort of issue. If you're in a loving relationship with the FA and he's a good person he will probably get over it, but don't expect it not to be an issue.
> 
> 
> 
> Of course. You bring up an important issue. I think it's an issue that couples deal with in many areas. For instance, a person in a relationship may decide they don't want kids after all. Or maybe a person decides that in order to follow his/her dreams he/she needs to quit a job and travel to the other side of the country to go to school. Anytime, someone in a relationship changes "the rules" so to speak, it is going to be an issue. Hopefully mutual respect and love will either pull the relationship through or allow it to end congenially. I don't think that an FA's desire to be with a big person is any less important than any other issue that faces a couple. It should be given just as much respect as any other deep desire.
Click to expand...


----------



## rabbitislove

5)If you feel uncomfortable with comments complimenting your body from the FA/FFA or the general touching of your belly - put it out there. We don't want to get off at the expense of your comfort zone.


----------



## love dubh

No disembodied discourse! 

None of that "I'd love to hug/kiss so-and-so's thigh/belly/arm flap." 

Why don't you want to hug/kiss SO-AND-SO? And then specify the areas that you want to love on....

I've heard it said...and it's REALLY creepy... >___>


----------



## AnnMarie

Liking this.... 

#1, I never worry about anymore, the only check in is "can you breath?"  That just seems like common courtesy.  

#2, I like ice cream... never hold back that offer. I'll tell you if I'm in the mood.

#3, EXCELLENT point Em. I find that a lot of women are put off by, or assume they're not, what some FAs want. FAs are as wide ranging in their interests as any guy into "normal" size girls. Some dig the belly, some dig the ass, some dig the "fat all over" girls, some dig super big legs, or thin faces or fat faces, etc. To internalize every comment or assume that because a guy doesn't prefer you, for whatever reason, he's not really an FA, or you're not a worthy fat girl is just crazy. Lid for every pot.... just keep plugging along until all the things you've got find a boat to float.  

#4, great point Matt. I know it sounds awful, but it's true. If I weigh 400 and I drop to 325 or so, I don't expect my "guy" (don't have one) to freak out. On me, that weight isn't a HUGE difference or deal breaker. If I drop to 200... well, I'm a different girl. The reasons behind the loss can be a bigger issue than the loss itself as well. Health can be one thing, but unhappiness in your body outlook just on the surface level can be a whole different ball of wax. Most FAs are very unhappy when paired with an insecure, body-loathing partner. 

Great thread... keep it up.


----------



## Webmaster

AnnMarie said:


> Liking this....
> 
> #1, I never worry about anymore, the only check in is "can you breath?"  That just seems like common courtesy.....



What actually happens is this: even a very large woman on top of you can feel light as a feather in the throngs of passion. Well, perhaps not quite that light, but it's a wonderful feeling that's simply indescribable.

HOWEVER, once the man orgasms and gradually comes down from the high, our FA superpowers seem to go away and the weight quickly seems to increase A LOT. For many of us that is the point where an inquiry or a shifting of weight, or simply switching to a position that works for both may be in order.


----------



## James

loggamatt said:


> Number 4 (a controversial one perhaps) - If you lose a lot of weight it WILL be some sort of issue. If you're in a loving relationship with the FA and he's a good person he will probably get over it, but don't expect it not to be an issue.
> 
> Some BBW seem to expect a guy to love their size when they love their own size, but the minute they want to lose weight expect the guy to suddenly wish that they're thin as well. It really amazes me how much it seems to shock some BBW that it can bother FAs when they lose weight. It's as if some BBW think that deep down we'd find them more attractive if they were thinner regardless of what we say, and the whole FA thing is just a big charade.
> 
> I suspect I'll be accused by some of superficiality... so just to clarify, I'm not saying that a FA should leave a BBW partner if she loses weight. I make no comment on that extreme of the situation. I am merely saying that BBW should not expect it to be a non-issue.
> 
> *braces himself for being flamed*



no flames... but a girl can lose a lot of weight but still be fat...

a girl of 200-250 lbs can be just as sexy as a girl 200lbs more than that. I know not everyone will agree with me but I'm still not liking the idea of linking a number to self worth or sexiness. Bah anyway, its just my opinion but it really *isnt *about the numbers!


----------



## loggamatt

> I know it sounds awful, but it's true. If I weigh 400 and I drop to 325 or so, I don't expect my "guy" (don't have one) to freak out. On me, that weight isn't a HUGE difference or deal breaker. If I drop to 200... well, I'm a different girl.



But, from the guy's perspective, if you start losing weight, how does he know you're going to stop at 325? It can be an issue, even if it's internalised, for the guy as soon as the weight loss starts. Especially if it's intentional weight loss. The girl may only lose 20lbs, but the FA can't predict the future and may fear the worst that it might be 200lbs.

If you say the FA should wait and see, where do you draw that line? You say not 325, what about 300? 275? At what point should the guy start freaking out? 

In my experience, this issue is usually more clear cut for the girl than it is for the guy. I've heard so many girls say things like "well I'll still be big, I just won't be this big." But the girl and the guy can have different thresholds for what is 'big'. If the guy is only attracted to SSBBW, when the girl thinks "250 is still big" the guy may think "no it isn't".

I think where it becomes a problem is if the girl expects the guy to automatically agree with her views on size, her body, what's big, what's small. Some BBW I've known have almost expected the FAs views on these things to change concurrently with her own as things in her life change her own views.

I guess what I'm trying to say is... don't assume the FA is going to think anything. If you are in a loving relationship you should expect the FA to do his best to deal with it, and not let it terminally damage the relationship... but you cannot expect him to have no feelings/opinions/views on any planned attempt to lose weight, even if you think it's not a lot of weight by your personal definition of what is 'a lot'.

Oh, by the way, hello AM  It's your turn to E-mail me you know


----------



## MisticalMisty

James said:


> no flames... but a girl can lose a lot of weight but still be fat...
> 
> a girl of 200-250 lbs can be just as sexy as a girl 200lbs more than that. I know not everyone will agree with me but I'm still not liking the idea of linking a number to self worth or sexiness. Bah anyway, its just my opinion but it really *isnt *about the numbers!



That's true James..but there is a huge difference *no pun intended* between a woman who is 200 lbs and a woman who is 400 lbs. Trust me..I went from 400 to 350ish and my body changed dramatically. It shouldn't be about the numbers...but when it's that big of a difference.........I don't see how it couldn't be an issue.


----------



## Sweet Tooth

FAs have their own body issues that do not reflect on how they feel about YOUR body.


----------



## loggamatt

> a girl of 200-250 lbs can be just as sexy as a girl 200lbs more than that. I know not everyone will agree with me but I'm still not liking the idea of linking a number to self worth or sexiness. Bah anyway, its just my opinion but it really isnt about the numbers!



Then in many ways you're a lucky guy. If you can date a girl who is 400lbs partially because you're attracted to her body, and still be equally attracted to her body when she's 200lbs then you're one of the rare breed of guys who is attracted to all shapes and sizes of girls. I know that with the majority of guys being 'superficial' like me, guys like you are the holy grail to many women... lol... so you're a lucky fella


----------



## magnoliagrows

loggamatt said:


> But, from the guy's perspective, if you start losing weight, how does he know you're going to stop at 325? It can be an issue, even if it's internalised, for the guy as soon as the weight loss starts. Especially if it's intentional weight loss. The girl may only lose 20lbs, but the FA can't predict the future and may fear the worst that it might be 200lbs.
> 
> If you say the FA should wait and see, where do you draw that line? You say not 325, what about 300? 275? At what point should the guy start freaking out?
> 
> In my experience, this issue is usually more clear cut for the girl than it is for the guy. I've heard so many girls say things like "well I'll still be big, I just won't be this big." But the girl and the guy can have different thresholds for what is 'big'. If the guy is only attracted to SSBBW, when the girl thinks "250 is still big" the guy may think "no it isn't".
> 
> I think where it becomes a problem is if the girl expects the guy to automatically agree with her views on size, her body, what's big, what's small. Some BBW I've known have almost expected the FAs views on these things to change concurrently with her own as things in her life change her own views.
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to say is... don't assume the FA is going to think anything. If you are in a loving relationship you should expect the FA to do his best to deal with it, and not let it terminally damage the relationship... but you cannot expect him to have no feelings/opinions/views on any planned attempt to lose weight, even if you think it's not a lot of weight by your personal definition of what is 'a lot'.
> 
> Oh, by the way, hello AM  It's your turn to E-mail me you know




Doesn't it go the other way too? In my experience with an FA, as he is excited with every pound I gain, there is a nagging question in the back of my mind. When is enough going to be enough? (I'm 5'4") Will he be happy when I reach 225 or will he still want more? 250? 300? It can be scary for a girl new to the FA/BBW acceptance scene, coming from a background with a more traditional view of beauty.

I think honoring the other's feelings is so important, not letting our fears make our decisions for us, relying on the trust that has been built through the relationship. It's important to remember that each of us wants the other to be happy - to have an abundance mentality - instead of believing that only one can have their way.

PS Stop referring to yourself as superficial. You're not being surface. You're being real.


----------



## SoCoCare

James said:


> no flames... but a girl can lose a lot of weight but still be fat...
> 
> a girl of 200-250 lbs can be just as sexy as a girl 200lbs more than that. I know not everyone will agree with me but I'm still not liking the idea of linking a number to self worth or sexiness. Bah anyway, its just my opinion but it really *isnt *about the numbers!


...words that every big girl has always wanted to hear.

Thanks for that!!


----------



## toni

James said:


> no flames... but a girl can lose a lot of weight but still be fat...
> 
> a girl of 200-250 lbs can be just as sexy as a girl 200lbs more than that. I know not everyone will agree with me but I'm still not liking the idea of linking a number to self worth or sexiness. Bah anyway, its just my opinion but it really *isnt *about the numbers!



In my experience with FA's it is about numbers. Sometimes something as small as a 1-2 lbs gain/loss can be obsessed over.


----------



## loggamatt

magnoliagrows said:


> Doesn't it go the other way too? In my experience with an FA, as he is excited with every pound I gain, there is a nagging question in the back of my mind. When is enough going to be enough? (I'm 5'4") Will he be happy when I reach 225 or will he still want more? 250? 300? It can be scary for a girl new to the FA/BBW acceptance scene, coming from a background with a more traditional view of beauty.
> 
> I think honoring the other's feelings is so important, not letting our fears make our decisions for us, relying on the trust that has been built through the relationship. It's important to remember that each of us wants the other to be happy - to have an abundance mentality - instead of believing that only one can have their way.
> 
> PS Stop referring to yourself as superficial. You're not being surface. You're being real.



Very wise words. You're right, there's a danger of framing this issue as if happiness in a BBW/FA relationship is mutually exclusive, and we all know that is not the case.

I guess in this situation it comes down to compromise, as does so much in a relationship. And that is not inherently bad.

As I said before, I'm not really trying to argue an FA's side that a BBW should not lose weight. I'm merely establishing that a partner's weight loss is a legitimate issue for a FA to have opinions of.

Feederism is separate from this issue in my opinion, but I can see why you would bring that up as it can be a similar issue. I am not a feeder myself, so I can't talk about this from personal experience, but I guess the issue there depends on the 'ground rules' that you established as part of the feeder/feedee relationship. If you both explicitly stated from the start that the aim was, I don't know, say 500lbs, and the feedee decided to give up at 300lbs, the feeder would have legitimate cause to feel misled and disappointed. Although, at the end of the day, it is the feedee's body and she would have the right to make this decision unilaterally.

If the feedee and feeder don't set goals or targets, then the feeder really should have no expectations of the feedee at all as far as I can see.

The difference between this and the issue of a BBW maintaining the weight she was when she started a relationship with the FA is that if the FA is open about the fact that he is attracted to her body from the start, that is effectively a substitute for the 'goals/targets' conversation in a feedee/feeder relationship. This is because the FA is open about the fact that he likes her the size she is, thus she is aware that her current size is one of the factors in attraction, and should therefore be equally aware that a change in her size could affect the attraction.

I don't know how much sense I'm making here... it is very very late in the UK  I got much more sleep when I was a lurker! lol

P.S. Thank you, I like to think that I'm not superficial either... was a pre-emptive attack on myself before any potential flaming I think  lol


----------



## Wagimawr

toni said:


> In my experience with FA's it is about numbers. Sometimes something as small as a 1-2 lbs gain/loss can be obsessed over.


1-2 pounds lost?

Absolutely not, no big deal.

50? Ok now I'm starting to wonder whether this BBW thing is really something a woman wants.

100 or more? Time for a conversation, assuming it's an unexpected loss.


----------



## SamanthaNY

This is a big issue for me - FAs and how they deal (or don't) with weight loss. I fear that I may never come to terms with it completely, but I'm grateful for seeing it discussed here. It helps. 

Thanks.


----------



## BitsyAintMyName

#5: If a BBW or BHM says they aren't interested please bow out gracefully and politely.

Some people seem to have the notion that fat people naturally have lower standards or none at all. I dunno why. *shrug* If you feel like you're "doing me a favor" by talking to me don't bother.


----------



## SoCoCare

BitsyAintMyName said:


> #5: If a BBW or BHM says they aren't interested please bow out gracefully and politely.
> 
> Some people seem to have the notion that fat people naturally have lower standards or none at all. I dunno why. *shrug* If you feel like you're "doing me a favor" by talking to me don't bother.


Well put!! I couldn't agree more! Good call girl!


----------



## Chimpi

liz (di-va) said:


> (everybody has insecurities)



To add upon this, "Fat Admirers" are human beings as well, with many feelings lurking around underneath their body as well. Insecurities are bound to come up, though not always in reference to weight (or the significant others' weight, more specifically). We also need encouragement, we need a reason to keep admiring your through and through (apart from the size of your body) the relationship, and we also may need some sort of reassurance every once in a while (maybe even dealing with the preference specifically).

Also, there may be other reason(s) that we, as "Fat Admirers" may want to get closer to you, or build a sturdy relationship with you. Yes, you are a fat person, and we love that about you, but do not think that that is the only thing that we see you as. If you believe you have a decent person on your hands, then odds are, he/she is and wants you for more than your body.


----------



## PiscesGirl

This thread makes me sad :-( I want unconditional love. I don't want to think my lover would leave me if I lost a few lbs.



Is 26 too young to adopt 50 cats and stop shaving your legs?


----------



## magnoliagrows

loggamatt said:


> Feederism is separate from this issue in my opinion, but I can see why you would bring that up as it can be a similar issue.



I wasn't talking about a feeder/feedee relationship. That doesn't define my relationship with my husband. I can see why you would get that from me. 

My thoughts came from experience when my husband (we weren't married yet) realized he was an FA (not suddenly but it felt that way) after I had lost about 40 pounds. We were able to navigate our relationship as he began to encourage me to gain it back. For me, it was the first time I had been a size 8 since Jr. High, so it wasn't easy. 10 years later (and an additional 70 pounds) we're still navigating but have found a way to do it joyfully. But there were a lot of times on my part over the years I wondered- when will it be enough?

So anyway. Thanks for the thoughts Loggamatt.


----------



## stan_der_man

love dubh said:


> No disembodied discourse!
> 
> None of that "I'd love to hug/kiss so-and-so's thigh/belly/arm flap."
> 
> Why don't you want to hug/kiss SO-AND-SO? And then specify the areas that you want to love on....
> 
> I've heard it said...and it's REALLY creepy... >___>



Love Dubh, that’s a very interesting point! I absolutely never thought of anything like that (my imagination brings me many strange places but I’ve never been there…) I can see where that would be creepy if somebody took it to an extreme, and never moved beyond that (the specific body part certainly…) I'll bet people who study such things have some term for it like, “corpus particular fixation” or something.



activistfatgirl said:


> Not all FAs are into food or feeding or weight gain, and just because someone is doesn't make them the DEVIL!!!



I completely agree with you AFG, and I’m going go jump head first into this one… (with some qualification…)

I think that the “feeders” are unnecessarily vilified and picked on at times. I have read many, many threads on this topic and just stood by non-committal and pondered my feelings about this. Certainly, there is a lot of bad behavior and lack of respect on the part of many “feeders” and scorn is well deserved in that case. Now comes the qualifying… (BTW my boss yells at me for being overly verbose quite often… I apologize in advance…).

I probably need to explain my use of quotes on the word “feeder” first. I think there are some terms that have such a stigma attached to them that they almost become unusable without causing an upwelling of emotion and negativity to a point that their meaning becomes obscured. Words like “pornography” (or “Fox News” ;P ) for example. “Porn” and nude photography are basically the same thing in a literal sense: images of naked people. It’s the intent, the interpretation or purpose of each that is different. Also, I should mention that I’m not a “feeder” per se. Sometimes I like to eat a lot, and I do think it’s sort of sexy to see a woman eat a lot, but I don’t loose much sleep fanaticizing about it. “Feeding” in a sense is nothing more than eating a lot. (My bias by the way… I avoid use of the word “overeating” because I think it insinuates a proper quantity that someone should be eating… maybe this is the weak area in my logic…) It’s the intent of purposeful eating of lots of food that makes “feeding” different from just simply eating a lot. It’s the callous or disrespectful manner in which some “feeders” promote or carryout “feeding” that makes their form of eating offensive to many people. It is once again disrespect that I feel is the offense, not this group of people per se, that engage in purposeful eating. As long as people keep in mind possible adverse health effects (in anything that they do for that matter), mutual “feeding” is really no more offensive than mutually agreed upon sex in my opinion.




loggamatt said:


> Number 4 (a controversial one perhaps) - If you lose a lot of weight it WILL be some sort of issue. If you're in a loving relationship with the FA and he's a good person he will probably get over it, but don't expect it not to be an issue….





bigplaidpants said:


> ... Ultimately, healthy and whole relationship needs dynamic ongoing erotic energy. But, ultimately love and attraction must broaden beyond fat/size. (Catch the irony?  )
> 
> 
> 
> As James has often said, FAism is a whole package. For FA's it starts with size/fat....and the attraction endures. But, love and attraction eventually demands so much more. And, it should.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, if I'm preaching. I'll leave it there.



BigPlaidPants, I’ll take it from here  … I think both of these answers that Loggamatt and BigPlaidPants make (including James’ writings…) are perfectly valid, but I’ll give my 2¢ on that tomorrow… I know this is a total tangent… I think somehow Albert Einstein was right, but even he couldn’t prove it. There must be one single equation that explains the universe in its entirety. The closest I’ve gotten to that equation is:

1 square man per square mile = Wyoming

(I’m definitely not as smart as Einstein…) All complex things are just a composition of many simple little things. I know I sound like a broken record, but FAs and fat people are basically just people, and their problems and issues (when broken down to their fundamental components) are basically the same as “regular” people. (Whoops, I’m using quoted words again… I’ll finish tomorrow…).

Stan


----------



## Tooz

PiscesGirl said:


> This thread makes me sad :-( I want unconditional love. I don't want to think my lover would leave me if I lost a few lbs.



Well, it's kind of the same thing if a skinny person gains a bunch. If it's a deep relationship, the attraction might still be there. Well, the love might be. As horrible as it sounds, there are couples where one (or both) will put on a lot of weight, and while they still love eachother, they just won't have sex and be romantic as much. Sadly, I have come to accept that looks do play a role in relationships. -_- Unconditional love and unconditional lust and attraction are not the same thing.


----------



## crazygrad

Pisces, 26 is fine to stop shaving your legs.

But only 10 cats. You can reach 20 at 30.


----------



## chunkeymonkey

*raises hand with a question* If I get into a relationship with a fellow FA knowing what his love is and I am at the current weight I am now,How should I deal with a FA 5 years down the road when I decide then I want to lose some weight?I fight with this one in my head all the time because I met my husband at 240lbs. I gained up to 300lbs plus and then lost weight to my lowest as 210lbs now I am 240lbs again.Let me just say I didn't think at the time it would be that big of a deal till he almost had a break down with a 90 lb drop in a wife.I was at a loss because in my head I am thinking its just fat would you love me any less if I lost an arm??? Would he really leave me over losing weight??? I am thinking to myself "when I met him he had a full head of hair" Do I leave him if all the sudden he grows bald or if his working penis no longer saluted when needed?Just a few things running in my head.....


----------



## loggamatt

magnoliagrows said:


> I wasn't talking about a feeder/feedee relationship. That doesn't define my relationship with my husband. I can see why you would get that from me.
> 
> My thoughts came from experience when my husband (we weren't married yet) realized he was an FA (not suddenly but it felt that way) after I had lost about 40 pounds. We were able to navigate our relationship as he began to encourage me to gain it back. For me, it was the first time I had been a size 8 since Jr. High, so it wasn't easy. 10 years later (and an additional 70 pounds) we're still navigating but have found a way to do it joyfully. But there were a lot of times on my part over the years I wondered- when will it be enough?
> 
> So anyway. Thanks for the thoughts Loggamatt.



Oh, sorry Magnolia, I shouldn't have thought that you were talking about a feedee/feeder relationship from what little you wrote of your relationship, was presumptuous of me.

I'm wary of commenting too specifically on your relationship with your husband... I guess the issue is that because your husband only realised that he preferred you when you were bigger after you had already lost the weight, it would have been impossible for you to know that your weight loss would be a legitimate issue for him until it had already happened (and provoked the realisation in him that he was a FA). That must have made the situation far more complicated as it could have been viewed as unfair for him to only insist that he wanted things to stay the same after they had already changed.

So then in that situation he would have relinquished any expectation that you should gain 50lbs, 70lbs, 100lbs... whether you wanted to do that to please him (and possibly yourself, I don't know) anyway would be your decision.

It sounds, from what little I've heard, that you are very considerate of your husband's feelings, and I'm sure he's a very lucky guy. Also, I wouldn't want you to think that I'm criticising your husband for not realising that he's a FA until late on, it can take people years to work these things out for themselves through no fault of their own.

I guess I'm just saying that I can appreciate that your situation is even more complicated than the common FA concern over a BBW partner losing weight  But what comes from this is that it sounds like in your relationship, the key was your understanding and ability to empathise with your husband. I think that communication and empathy are probably good starting points for dealing with any relationship problem, and could be the solution to 95% of the issues raised in this thread.

And, I'm sorry, I've commented on your relationship far more than I intended to, or probably ought to... but thanks from bringing up a thought-provoking point!


----------



## loggamatt

chunkeymonkey said:


> *raises hand with a question* If I get into a relationship with a fellow FA knowing what his love is and I am at the current weight I am now,How should I deal with a FA 5 years down the road when I decide then I want to lose some weight?I fight with this one in my head all the time because I met my husband at 240lbs. I gained up to 300lbs plus and then lost weight to my lowest as 210lbs now I am 240lbs again.Let me just say I didn't think at the time it would be that big of a deal till he almost had a break down with a 90 lb drop in a wife.I was at a loss because in my head I am thinking its just fat would you love me any less if I lost an arm??? Would he really leave me over losing weight??? I am thinking to myself "when I met him he had a full head of hair" Do I leave him if all the sudden he grows bald or if his working penis no longer saluted when needed?Just a few things running in my head.....



Interesting...

I think the differing factor between you losing weight and your husband going bald is intent. I doubt your husband would be pulling his hair out (although, with FAs dealing with BBW weight loss, anything is possible! lol), or that it would be something he would desire to happen.

If we use your example of losing an arm... if you lost an arm in an accident, whether it affected his attraction to you or not, it would be a horrible thing for him to do to not stand by you. You would be devastated at losing your arm yourself no doubt, and did not intend for it to happen.

Same goes for unintentional weight gain, weight loss, hair going grey, hair loss... all of these things that are part of the natural passage of life. They are not intentional, and they are often inevitable.

But, if you said to your husband one day "I've decided that I think I would be more attractive without my left arm, I'm going to pay a surgeon to amputate it", that is a different matter. I don't think many people would expect your husband not to state an opinion on that! lol

Or, if you were a size 10, married to a man who liked size 10 women, and you said to him "I've always wanted to be bigger, I'm going to intentionally try to gain 100lbs", who would not expect the husband to have an issue with that? Again, this is not the same as you naturally gaining 100lbs through the passage of life, this is an intentional thing.

Therefore, why would you not expect your husband to take issue with you saying "I'm going to intentionally try to lose 100lbs" if you knew that he was a FA?

As for how you deal with this... good question 

If I had a definitive answer to a question like that I would write The FA's Guide To Life and probably make my fortune... lol. As I said in a previous post, communication and empathy couldn't hurt... if you are incredulous that he even feels it's an issue, or dispute that he has any right to take issue with it, that probably wouldn't help the volatility of the situation... lol. There will hopefully be a compromise that you could both live with, but that would be different for each person and something you would have to talk about.

The bottom line is though, it's your body, and if you want to lose weight it is your right to do so. But, similarly, it is his life, and if he decides that he cannot deal with being in a relationship with someone so small, it is his right to leave the relationship.

Luckily, I doubt many relationships would break down to that extreme over this. In most cases the guy would decide to try to deal with his concerns over the weight loss because he is in love with the woman in question, and feels a commitment to her.

The first part of dealing with this as a BBW though is accepting that it's a valid concern for the FA, and not questioning his right to an opinion on it.


----------



## SamanthaNY

chunkeymonkey said:


> *raises hand with a question* If I get into a relationship with a fellow FA knowing what his love is and I am at the current weight I am now,How should I deal with a FA 5 years down the road when I decide then I want to lose some weight?I fight with this one in my head all the time because I met my husband at 240lbs. I gained up to 300lbs plus and then lost weight to my lowest as 210lbs now I am 240lbs again.Let me just say I didn't think at the time it would be that big of a deal till he almost had a break down with a 90 lb drop in a wife.I was at a loss because in my head I am thinking its just fat would you love me any less if I lost an arm??? Would he really leave me over losing weight??? I am thinking to myself "when I met him he had a full head of hair" Do I leave him if all the sudden he grows bald or if his working penis no longer saluted when needed?Just a few things running in my head.....


Call me a hardass (wouldn't be the first or last time), but I think it's entirely *un*reasonable for a husband to freak that far out about a weight loss. Sure, I can understand the odd pout or five. I understand that this is his sexual preference, melting before his eyes, but at some point - theoretically when you accepted his proposal, other more important values come to the forefront. And they stay there. 

I've been at odds with part of the FA-BBW (from here on out, let it be understood that this covers FFAs and BHMs too please) relationship, and community as a whole. Think about it - here is an entire community built upon one half being fat, and the other half loving that fat. Is that in and of itself, sort of screwy? Sure, it's a great initial jumping-off point, a source of attraction for two people to build upon, but I think it's morphed into something different in recent years. I think the focus is entirely too much on the fat - the body - the size - the weight. And not the people behind it. And when you add feederism to the mix - something that has grown leaps and bounds within this community - it further enhances that over-focus, to the detriment of BBWs and FAs alike. 

I have an FA husband, and he's the best person in the world. I lost a lot of weight a few years ago, and if he experienced any negative effects from that, he didn't express them (he could have - I asked). He knows I'd like to lose more, for health reasons, and he supports me in that effort. If he didn't, he'd be free to go on his way. To me - anything less than that is unacceptable. This is just my body - he didn't marry it, he married ME, and if he loved me enough to do that, he should also love me through any and every variation that body goes through. ESPECIALLY when it comes to health concerns. Sometimes we don't have control over those changes (your example of losing and arm), and sometimes we do. I fully expect his body and life to go through changes, and I'll be there for all of them. Why in the world should it be anything different in how he feels about me? (and if it IS different? I picked the wrong man to marry)

And I just don't buy the excuse that intent is a differing factor - I cannot understand how a husband can dare to utter an objection, or have a valid complaint (concern, yes - complaint, uh-uh), when his wife intends to try to get to a healthier size. Sorry husbands, I know this is your hard-on we're talking about. But we're the ones lugging that 400 pound hard-on (there's a vivid image, eh?) around every minute of every day. It ain't easy. 

So - to answer your question, CM - the way you deal with it is to ferret out the FAs that want a relationship with _you_... and choose them over the ones that want a relationship with your body.


----------



## chunkeymonkey

loggamatt said:


> Interesting...
> 
> I think the differing factor between you losing weight and your husband going bald is intent. I doubt your husband would be pulling his hair out (although, with FAs dealing with BBW weight loss, anything is possible! lol), or that it would be something he would desire to happen.
> 
> If we use your example of losing an arm... if you lost an arm in an accident, whether it affected his attraction to you or not, it would be a horrible thing for him to do to not stand by you. You would be devastated at losing your arm yourself no doubt, and did not intend for it to happen.
> 
> Same goes for unintentional weight gain, weight loss, hair going grey, hair loss... all of these things that are part of the natural passage of life. They are not intentional, and they are often inevitable.
> 
> But, if you said to your husband one day "I've decided that I think I would be more attractive without my left arm, I'm going to pay a surgeon to amputate it", that is a different matter. I don't think many people would expect your husband not to state an opinion on that! lol
> 
> Or, if you were a size 10, married to a man who liked size 10 women, and you said to him "I've always wanted to be bigger, I'm going to intentionally try to gain 100lbs", who would not expect the husband to have an issue with that? Again, this is not the same as you naturally gaining 100lbs through the passage of life, this is an intentional thing.
> 
> Therefore, why would you not expect your husband to take issue with you saying "I'm going to intentionally try to lose 100lbs" if you knew that he was a FA?
> 
> As for how you deal with this... good question
> 
> If I had a definitive answer to a question like that I would write The FA's Guide To Life and probably make my fortune... lol. As I said in a previous post, communication and empathy couldn't hurt... if you are incredulous that he even feels it's an issue, or dispute that he has any right to take issue with it, that probably wouldn't help the volatility of the situation... lol. There will hopefully be a compromise that you could both live with, but that would be different for each person and something you would have to talk about.
> 
> The bottom line is though, it's your body, and if you want to lose weight it is your right to do so. But, similarly, it is his life, and if he decides that he cannot deal with being in a relationship with someone so small, it is his right to leave the relationship.
> 
> Luckily, I doubt many relationships would break down to that extreme over this. In most cases the guy would decide to try to deal with his concerns over the weight loss because he is in love with the woman in question, and feels a commitment to her.
> 
> The first part of dealing with this as a BBW though is accepting that it's a valid concern for the FA, and not questioning his right to an opinion on it.



True I guess I left out the fact that when I had a tremendous weight loss I also had my thyroid removed due to a tumor.Shortly after the weight started to fall off and then I started to work out on top of that so I guess some was health related and the other would be I would have would be to eat way more to maintain a bigger weight.I did gain back 30 lbs at his request but at the same time I cant stuff my face with ice cream and chocolate and massive carbs and set this as an example for my kids.Especially when I have be diagnosed with type 2 diabetes.
So I guess the comparison was more for an uncontrolled weight loss and having a amputation.LOL and the hair loss well that went along with heavy stress......from the weight loss.
I just started to think when your young and big you dont look at things realistically until bang its in your face.For instance I know when your big you can suffer from joint pain and back pain and many more issues.In the back my head I am thinking ohhhh I only need to worry about that when I am older .....forgetting I am actually older than I think.I go to the Dr.and they say "well losing a few pounds will help with less pressure on those joints along with help with the diabetes" Guess I am thinking out loud.
As An FA do you look at a woman and say your beautiful now but if you decided to lose weight will I be ok with it? LOL my husband actually now gets a kick out of me losing weight because he knows if he waits me out I will gain it back and then some its just frustrating during.


----------



## loggamatt

SamanthaNY said:


> I cannot understand how a husband can dare to utter an objection, or have a valid complaint (concern, yes - complaint, uh-uh), when his wife intends to try to get to a healthier size. Sorry husbands, I know this is your hard-on we're talking about. But we're the ones lugging that 400 pound hard-on (there's a vivid image, eh?) around every minute of every day. It ain't easy.



But I would imagine that if you decided that, actually, you were content with your health and your size that your husband would automatically agree with that too?

I find it interesting how BBW's views on whether being a BBW is or isn't unhealthy can change whether they happen to be dieting that month or not. Personally, I feel that diets generally speaking cause more health problems than just maintaining your weight, or even gaining weight slowly and naturally. Because I that I feel no guilt for dating a BBW and not encouraging her to lose weight.

If I did believe that BBW should lose weight for their health, should I not encourage a BBW I'm in a relationship with (hypothetical relationship here I'm afraid... lol) to lose weight at all times if I cared about her, whether she actually wants to or not?

Believe me, I'm a big guy myself, and I know how infuriating it is when people make comments like "should you really be eating that? Think of your health", so I'd imagine most BBW would not want their partners to actively try to make them lose weight at all times.

It is hard for an FA to believe strongly in the health benefits of a BBW maintaining her size one month, but then alter his opinions entirely the next month to develop a strong conviction that dieting is the most healthy option, to mirror the BBW's own opinions.

You may say that we're not entitled to an opinion at all on this, that it's your body and it is only your opinion that is valid. I can understand and accept that to a point. Believe me, I'm trying very very hard to make it clear that I do not condone a guy divorcing his wife for losing 50lbs or any extreme like that... lol. But on the other hand, I simply can't accept that an FA in a relationship with a BBW has no right to an opinion on any drastic intentional changes that she wants to make to herself. If I decided I wanted to have dye my hair pink would my hypothetical wife have no right to an opinion on that?

You will no doubt say that weight loss is different, it's a health issue. But as far as I can see, you either start a relationship with a guy who thinks that you should lose weight to be healthy and put up with him actively encouraging you to lose weight and the "you have such a pretty face, if only you'd lose weight..." comments, or you start a relationship with a guy who thinks that it's healthy to maintain your weight and not expect the "I'm losing weight for my health" argumant to carry much sway with him.

Or you meet a guy (and maybe your husband is one of these guys...) who is attracted to all shapes, sizes and types of women and none of this is an issue. But that guy is not an FA, you cannot meet an FA who is equally attracted to thin women, that would be an oxymoron. Also, I'd say beware of guys telling you that they don't care whether you're big or small because they think that's what you want to hear, there are guys out there who do that.


----------



## chunkeymonkey

SamanthaNY said:


> Call me a hardass (wouldn't be the first or last time), but I think it's entirely *un*reasonable for a husband to freak that far out about a weight loss. Sure, I can understand the odd pout or five. I understand that this is his sexual preference, melting before his eyes, but at some point - theoretically when you accepted his proposal, other more important values come to the forefront. And they stay there.
> 
> I've been at odds with part of the FA-BBW (from here on out, let it be understood that this covers FFAs and BHMs too please) relationship, and community as a whole. Think about it - here is an entire community built upon one half being fat, and the other half loving that fat. Is that in and of itself, sort of screwy? Sure, it's a great initial jumping-off point, a source of attraction for two people to build upon, but I think it's morphed into something different in recent years. I think the focus is entirely too much on the fat - the body - the size - the weight. And not the people behind it. And when you add feederism to the mix - something that has grown leaps and bounds within this community - it further enhances that over-focus, to the detriment of BBWs and FAs alike.
> 
> I have an FA husband, and he's the best person in the world. I lost a lot of weight a few years ago, and if he experienced any negative effects from that, he didn't express them (he could have - I asked). He knows I'd like to lose more, for health reasons, and he supports me in that effort. If he didn't, he'd be free to go on his way. To me - anything less than that is unacceptable. This is just my body - he didn't marry it, he married ME, and if he loved me enough to do that, he should also love me through any and every variation that body goes through. ESPECIALLY when it comes to health concerns. Sometimes we don't have control over those changes (your example of losing and arm), and sometimes we do. I fully expect his body and life to go through changes, and I'll be there for all of them. Why in the world should it be anything different in how he feels about me? (and if it IS different? I picked the wrong man to marry)
> 
> And I just don't buy the excuse that intent is a differing factor - I cannot understand how a husband can dare to utter an objection, or have a valid complaint (concern, yes - complaint, uh-uh), when his wife intends to try to get to a healthier size. Sorry husbands, I know this is your hard-on we're talking about. But we're the ones lugging that 400 pound hard-on (there's a vivid image, eh?) around every minute of every day. It ain't easy.
> 
> So - to answer your question, CM - the way you deal with it is to ferret out the FAs that want a relationship with _you_... and choose them over the ones that want a relationship with your body.



I agree a relationship should be about the whole package not just the curb appeal.


----------



## loggamatt

chunkeymonkey said:


> True I guess I left out the fact that when I had a tremendous weight loss I also had my thyroid removed due to a tumor.Shortly after the weight started to fall off and then I started to work out on top of that so I guess some was health related and the other would be I would have would be to eat way more to maintain a bigger weight.I did gain back 30 lbs at his request but at the same time I cant stuff my face with ice cream and chocolate and massive carbs and set this as an example for my kids.Especially when I have be diagnosed with type 2 diabetes.
> So I guess the comparison was more for an uncontrolled weight loss and having a amputation.LOL and the hair loss well that went along with heavy stress......from the weight loss.
> I just started to think when your young and big you dont look at things realistically until bang its in your face.For instance I know when your big you can suffer from joint pain and back pain and many more issues.In the back my head I am thinking ohhhh I only need to worry about that when I am older .....forgetting I am actually older than I think.I go to the Dr.and they say "well losing a few pounds will help with less pressure on those joints along with help with the diabetes" Guess I am thinking out loud.
> As An FA do you look at a woman and say your beautiful now but if you decided to lose weight will I be ok with it? LOL my husband actually now gets a kick out of me losing weight because he knows if he waits me out I will gain it back and then some its just frustrating during.



Oh, that's totally a different matter, like I say, not an intentional thing. I can understand your husband being disappointed at your weight loss for reasons of attraction, but he would surely have to understand that it was something beyond your control?

And you know what? A FA's opinions on this issue DOES change the deeper he gets into a relationships and the more in love his is. I was having a conversation last night with a BBW who I care a great deal for but, unfortunately, can't be in a relationship with at the moment due to geographical distance. Back when I first met her I freaked out a little when she tried losing weight, but I mentioned the fact (the conversation came up because of this thread obviously! lol) that actually, if she did want to lose weight it wouldn't bother me nearly so much now. This is because as time goes by, the connection you have with someone becomes more emotional than physical. The physical can still be there and just as big a deal as it was before (at least, in my own case it is), but the emotional side of the relationship becomes a bigger deal.

Your husband has probably experienced the same thing.

So, really people, I'm not saying that no BBW can ever lose weight or her FA will definitely leave her, no matter how strong their relationship  I'm merely saying that it is a legitimate concern for a FA to some extent, even if just a small extent.


----------



## bigplaidpants

AnnMarie said:


> #4, great point Matt. I know it sounds awful, but it's true. If I weigh 400 and I drop to 325 or so, I don't expect my "guy" (don't have one) to freak out. On me, that weight isn't a HUGE difference or deal breaker. If I drop to 200... well, I'm a different girl. The reasons behind the loss can be a bigger issue than the loss itself as well. ....





SamanthaNY said:


> This is a big issue for me - FAs and how they deal (or don't) with weight loss. I fear that I may never come to terms with it completely, but I'm grateful for seeing it discussed here. It helps.





PiscesGirl said:


> This thread makes me sad :-( I want unconditional love. I don't want to think my lover would leave me if I lost a few lbs.





fa_man_stan said:


> ....I know I sound like a broken record, but FAs and fat people are basically just people, and their problems and issues (when broken down to their fundamental components) are basically the same as regular people. (Whoops, Im using quoted words again Ill finish tomorrow).



Forgive the treatise , but I'm trying to get a handle on all this. I'm leaving out alot of details to try to get to the heart of the issue here. 

*Point 1: Unconditional Love VS. The Erotic and Attraction* 

This grudge match of love vs. attraction lingers on for fat and thin alike....and, perhaps, always will. 

Stan is right: FA's and fat folk _are_ people. The content of the saga between love and attraction might be different (weight/fat/size), but the ongoing tension is the same: Love VS Attraction. 

For me, as an FA, the content of my saga is important. My fat attraction is something that happens to me. I can't imagine how I would have/could have chosen it. I'm glad it chose me!  But, when things change (weight, self-confidence, whatever), I do have feelings about it. I'm with loggamatt. I want to be able to have feelings.

Now, how I handle them, that's another question.

*Point 2: Things Change*

I've learned that things change in a relationship. So do bodies. We change in weight, health, self-confidence, the need for love, support, self-acceptance, etc. All these things shift. The need for love and attraction never goes away in all this. My fat attraction has never gone away, either. However, the needs of love vs. attraction make different demands on me. As a married FA, I've made the committment to try to meet them.

*(Controversial?) Point 3: Both FA's and Fat Folk may bring fantasies to a relationship.*

The problem of fantasy is often laid at the feet of FA's. And, for the sake of responsibility for their own fat fantasies, it should be. I don't deny that. But, that FA problem gets alot of airtime on these boards. 

I wanna talk about how fantasies _can _go both ways. (I'm going to gender this discussion, but I think the dynamics can go either way. Read it bisexually.  )

As a male and FA, I don't think I've ever been able to live up to the expectations. They go far beyond the expectations of the "perfect FA." Being an FA seems to just change the problem (weight/fat/size). There is the same expectations. My partner read alot of romance novels as a young woman. In them - like on the movies - the desired male always fit these sexual stereo-types: 

- He was active, the pursuer (she was supposed to just be perfect, desireable, and passive sexually and otherwise)
- His love and sense of attraction was always unwaivering (because she was perfect, changeless, needed nothing)
- He was successful, good-looking, and powerful (her prize)
- She earned all his love and desire unconditionally by just "being there." 

Like some of my fat fantasies, this fantasy was a problem in our relationship - for both of us! It kept us both from dealing with reality. She was never fat enough and I kept feeling like a factory second.

Now, depending on where you are in your love life, the HERO in your story (FA or not) may fit this model, too. She/he may either a) love you forever (unconditionally, no matter what) or b) love you just the way you are (right now, attracted to you, fat body n' all). 

Herein lies the problem of fantasy and reality. Everybody, including FA's and fat folk, have their own versions. My experience is that the reality of any enduring relationship runs up against the limits of our fantasies. 

This brings us back to Points #1 and #2: There is an onging tension between the needs for love and attraction. And, things change. 

When the fantasies break down (like with weight loss) both have to decide whether to a) talk about it, b) get out, or c) shift to sustain the relationship. But, it's important to remember, that this shift in felt love and attraction can come from anything! - weight loss, the relationship losing its sparkle, or a shift in health, having children, financial security.

In my experience, the cycle between points 1, 2, and 3 are ongoing, whether its weight of anything else. Every relationship eventually hits the wall between fantasy and reality. The need for love vs attraction waxes and wanes. The tension never go away. Fat/weight is one aspect of that tension for FA's and fat folk.

Unless a real crisis hits a relationship, I believe the committment to love feeds the attraction.  Both compromise; both take risks. But, in the end, love wins.....because reality wins. Fantasy in an engine for attraction. Commitment and risk is the engine of love.

It's on ongoing tension and discussion......


----------



## SamanthaNY

loggamatt said:


> But I would imagine that if you decided that, actually, you were content with your health and your size that your husband would automatically agree with that too?


To a point - he has a tendency to let me buy own bullshit for only so long. If he sees me revelling in bad habits, he'll say something. We have enough respect for each other that a mention is enough. 


> I find it interesting how BBW's views on whether being a BBW is or isn't unhealthy can change whether they happen to be dieting that month or not. Personally, I feel that diets generally speaking cause more health problems than just maintaining your weight, or even gaining weight slowly and naturally. Because I that I feel no guilt for dating a BBW and not encouraging her to lose weight.


Understandable - and I agree. It can sometimes be a roller-coaster for the mate of a BBW if we're struggling with health issues and are trying to handle that through weight loss. And just because you're with a fat women, that doesn't mean that they all want, or need to lose weight - everyone's health is different (though I believe there are certain health markers), so each person is to be treated as a separate case. 


> If I did believe that BBW should lose weight for their health, should I not encourage a BBW I'm in a relationship with (hypothetical relationship here I'm afraid... lol) to lose weight at all times if I cared about her, whether she actually wants to or not?


Slippery slope there. If you're dealing with an adult, I would think "Honey, I think your body is fantabulous - it's my every dream... but, your health comes first, ya know? It's your decision, but I just want you to know that even though your bod rocks my world, I care about you, and your health first." - would do nicely. Constant reminders would likely get you a slap with a hot pizza. And "I told you so" will get you a sharp kick in the meatballs, if you get my drift. You can't, nor should you try, to force someone to do something they're not prepared to do - even if it's the best thing for them. 


> It is hard for an FA to believe strongly in the health benefits of a BBW maintaining her size one month, but then alter his opinions entirely the next month to develop a strong conviction that dieting is the most healthy option, to mirror the BBW's own opinions.


Yeah, I can bet it is (see rollercoaster mentioned above). But, for me - the overall healthier lifestyle makes a big difference. Stressing over one bag of M&Ms isn't worth it, but asking me to cook us a healthy meal with a side salad every night is a step in the right direction.


> You may say that we're not entitled to an opinion at all on this, that it's your body and it is only your opinion that is valid. I can understand and accept that to a point. Believe me, I'm trying very very hard to make it clear that I do not condone a guy divorcing his wife for losing 50lbs or any extreme like that... lol. But on the other hand, I simply can't accept that an FA in a relationship with a BBW has no right to an opinion on any drastic intentional changes that she wants to make to herself. If I decided I wanted to have dye my hair pink would my hypothetical wife have no right to an opinion on that?


You are of course entitled to an opinion - and I want you to have one, and express it (which - on a personal note, you do _very_ well. Bravo, new guy). And of course, every woman (I think) would want her mate to share in discussions and decisions of this nature. I guess for me, the issue is with entitlement. My body isn't here solely for your (using the general 'you' here) entertainment. So when your sexual attraction morphs you into a whining child because your toy is gone/changed - I take issue. And if you dying your hair (pink? really?) significantly impacted how long you lived, yeah... I'd bring it up for discussion, even if pink hair got me going. 


> You will no doubt say that weight loss is different, it's a health issue. But as far as I can see, you either start a relationship with a guy who thinks that you should lose weight to be healthy and put up with him actively encouraging you to lose weight and the "you have such a pretty face, if only you'd lose weight..." comments, or you start a relationship with a guy who thinks that it's healthy to maintain your weight and not expect the "I'm losing weight for my health" argumant to carry much sway with him.
> Or you meet a guy (and maybe your husband is one of these guys...) who is attracted to all shapes, sizes and types of women and none of this is an issue. But that guy is not an FA, you cannot meet an FA who is equally attracted to thin women, that would be an oxymoron. Also, I'd say beware of guys telling you that they don't care whether you're big or small because they think that's what you want to hear, there are guys out there who do that.


My husband is a solid, 100% FA, and has little to no attraction to thin women. He adores my body as it is now, and when it was bigger - but he also understands that it might not be 1) how I want it to be and 2) what's best for me health-wise. Though he has an extremely strong attraction to me sexually, he loves me, the person, more. And he knew before we became seriously involved that weight loss could become something we would be faced with (that should be a reality for any FA, I would think), and he still stuck around. To me, that doesn't say that he was an FA that compromised, a guy just giving a line, or an FA-poser... but that he was (and is) a decent man. In my world (admittedly skewed), that's how every man should be.

I guess my point is that I would wish every man could be a decent man first, and an FA second. Wait... no, like I said above, it's that I _expect_ every man to be - and that's where my problems originate. When I see a man that isn't - I either have to consider that that particular guy sucks, or that my expectations are faulty to begin with. 

Btw, bravo again to you Matt, and to everyone else on this thread. This is a tough issue for all involved, yet it's being discussed calmly and intelligently, and minus any drama. I know I'm learning a lot here, and it's really helping me feel more comfortable about this community... even if it never resolves anything. I appreciate everyone's input.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

tooz said:


> unconditional lust and attraction



Not sure there is such a thing as unconditional lust and attraction  wouldn't it be nice if there were though?

You can't help what you find attractive in another person. It just is what it is. 

If a thin couple were together and the husband put on about 100 pounds and the wife found herself no longer attracted to her husband does that make her a bad person? I dont think so, I would hope that their love for each other is strong enough to be able to get past that hurdle. .

I can see how for an FA (if they find themselves attracted to a certain size woman) the idea of their partner losing a substantial ammount of weight could be a scary thing. 

Attraction is what initially draws people to each other, but its certainly not what keeps couples together. On the flip side of that coin though, it can't be a good feeling to know that you are in a relationship with someone that doesn't find you attractive anymore and I would imagine that there would have to be some serious discussions taking place. I can love someone with all my heart, and want the relationship to work with all of my being but if they aren't attracted to me there are going to be issues. SEX is a huge part of a relationship and once that flame goes out if you can't get it relit then other little things start becoming issues as well.


----------



## bigplaidpants

SamanthaNY said:


> My husband is a solid, 100% FA, and has little to no attraction to thin women. He adores my body as it is now, and when it was bigger - but he also understands that it might not be 1) how I want it to be and 2) what's best for me health-wise. Though he has an extremely strong attraction to me sexually, he loves me, the person, more. And he knew before we became seriously involved that weight loss could become something we would be faced with (that should be a reality for any FA, I would think), and he still stuck around. To me, that doesn't say that he was an FA that compromised, a guy just giving a line, or an FA-poser... but that he was (and is) a decent man. In my world (admittedly skewed), that's how every man should be.



I may be butting in.....but,

SamanthaNY, you describe the kind of ongoing _reality_ in a relationship I'm trying to describe. In my experience, a couple has to find and maintain a livable, and hopefully fulfilling!, balance of needed love and attraction for each other in order for the relationship to survive and flourish. 

The next question be, "How do you (couples who maintain the balance of love and attraction) do it?"



> I guess my point is that I would wish every man could be a decent man first, and an FA second. Wait... no, like I said above, it's that I _expect_ every man to be - and that's where my problems originate. When I see a man that isn't - I either have to consider that that particular guy sucks, or that my expectations are faulty to begin with.



And this exactly describes one side of the "wall between fantasy and reality" I'm trying to describe. It may not seem like much of fantasy because the myth of "a guy either is decent or sucks" is pretty prevalent. In truth, FA's have expectations they don't always meet. Sometimes we FA's suck. Sometimes, its a fault in expectations.

The reason why I end with the tension is because, I think, in truth....in each particular situation it is usually some of both.

For that same reason......on some other thread....some other time....I think this discussion is going to be rehad and had again.


----------



## SamanthaNY

bigplaidpants said:


> The next question many may have is, "How do you (couples who maintain the balance of love and attraction) do it?"


For me, it's not a balance, but a list of priorities. Emple and I have discussed and decided which things are more important to us, and how they all fit together in our lives. Actually, it wasn't so much a discussion, but just the luck of two people with very similar values finally finding eachother. 


bigplaidpants said:


> The reason why I end with the tension is because, I think, in truth....in each particular situation it is usually some of both.
> 
> For that same reason......on some other thread....some other time....I think this discussion is going to be rehad and had again.



Confuscius say: Wise man travel in bigplaidpants :bow:


----------



## James

loggamatt said:


> Then in many ways you're a lucky guy. If you can date a girl who is 400lbs partially because you're attracted to her body, and still be equally attracted to her body when she's 200lbs then you're one of the rare breed of guys who is attracted to all shapes and sizes of girls. I know that with the majority of guys being 'superficial' like me, guys like you are the holy grail to many women... lol... so you're a lucky fella



haha... i'm still superficial in the sense that I operate on a "no skinny chicks" dating policy


----------



## bigplaidpants

SamanthaNY said:


> For me, it's not a balance, but a list of priorities. Emple and I have discussed and decided which things are more important to us, and how they all fit together in our lives. Actually, it wasn't so much a discussion, but just the luck of two people with very similar values finally finding eachother.



I've often wished married or long-term'd FA's and BBW's (or FFA/BHM) could talk about these issues specifically b/c I think the commitment and length of relationship changes so many things.

In my marriage, we are committed to a set of priorities, too. Health, mutual respect, mutual happiness, etc. We agree on these things. The tension isn't in the values. I think it's more deeply rooted in how how happy and secure we are with ourselves and our bodies. 

This is where, I think, health sticks up its head and haunts every FA and fat person. Some certainly have definable health problems. Some, simply fear them because of all the messages fat folk get. I'm borderline "obese," myself. 

How do you love yourself or someone else when health becomes the risk? For me, that's when erotic concerns take a back seat. Because of the twisted messages sent, each person has to decide for themselves. That's when "back off," love, and respect your partner takes precedent.

In closing, thanks to everyone for the change to talk this out. As I try to think about the my experience as an FA, I have to say I think health is the ghost that haunts everything. Perhaps, this whole webboard....

This thread is great...but, I think it's wore me out. :doh: Sorry if it's worn anyone else out, too.


----------



## Jon Blaze

So far so good  

I agree with James that women of all sizes can truly be wanted. My only seperation is the line between thin and large, which I separate into what I call "Spectra." Other than that... It's equal game whether I am able squat my partner, or be squashed by my partner.


----------



## Tad

Ella Bella said:


> Not sure there is such a thing as unconditional lust and attraction  wouldn't it be nice if there were though?
> 
> You can't help what you find attractive in another person. It just is what it is.
> 
> If a thin couple were together and the husband put on about 100 pounds and the wife found herself no longer attracted to her husband does that make her a bad person? I dont think so, I would hope that their love for each other is strong enough to be able to get past that hurdle. .
> 
> I can see how for an FA (if they find themselves attracted to a certain size woman) the idea of their partner losing a substantial ammount of weight could be a scary thing.
> 
> Attraction is what initially draws people to each other, but its certainly not what keeps couples together. On the flip side of that coin though, it can't be a good feeling to know that you are in a relationship with someone that doesn't find you attractive anymore and I would imagine that there would have to be some serious discussions taking place. I can love someone with all my heart, and want the relationship to work with all of my being but if they aren't attracted to me there are going to be issues. SEX is a huge part of a relationship and once that flame goes out if you can't get it relit then other little things start becoming issues as well.



Very well put!

I can't remember the exact numbers, but I did hear of a couple of studies, and they found that relationships where there was a good sex-life had a much better chance of lasting. Sex does help pull us together in a basic chemical way, making it easier to put up with everything else.

Just by the way, a lot of posts try having comparisons "well what if he lost his hair/gained weight/ etc." Actually I don't think those things probably cut to most women's fundamental sexuality as weight does for an FA. The two examples that I think would be more accurate for most women would be:

1) He'd been very succseful and career oriented, and then he decides to drop all of that to take up painting, or

2) He wants to start dressing in women's clothes at least when at home.

Yes, many women could deal with one or both of those, because they love the guy no matter what. But for many those would be deal breakers--he is fundamentally not a 'guy' for them in ways that matter.

For some FA (and FFA), if you aren't fat, or especially if you are against fat, it kills the sexual attraction.

For my part my wife has lost about thirty pounds (probably over a quarter of her fat), and is barely in plus sizes anymore. I still love her and would never leave her (I have a duty and commitment streak that is a mile wide). But has it cooled my lust somewhat? Unfortunately yes. I really, really, wish that it had not. I wish I could will myself to be different than I am, but yes it takes some of the heat out of it. I'm still attracted to her, but without the same animal heat (aka we still have a sex life, just not the one we'd imagined a dozen years ago that we'd still have by now). Granted this could also be years in relationship and getting older too.....all three combined probably.

For that reason I would really not recommend getting into a relationship with an FA if you would don't like being fat. Because the two of you will always be pulling in different directions. Love can overcome that, but wouldn't you rather not have to overcome?

-Ed


----------



## Tad

SamanthaNY said:


> Btw, bravo again to you Matt, and to everyone else on this thread. This is a tough issue for all involved, yet it's being discussed calmly and intelligently, and minus any drama. I know I'm learning a lot here, and it's really helping me feel more comfortable about this community... even if it never resolves anything. I appreciate everyone's input.



I second that sentiment!

-Ed


----------



## EtobicokeFA

AnnMarie said:


> #4, great point Matt. I know it sounds awful, but it's true. If I weigh 400 and I drop to 325 or so, I don't expect my "guy" (don't have one) to freak out. On me, that weight isn't a HUGE difference or deal breaker. If I drop to 200... well, I'm a different girl. The reasons behind the loss can be a bigger issue than the loss itself as well. Health can be one thing, but unhappiness in your body outlook just on the surface level can be a whole different ball of wax. Most FAs are very unhappy when paired with an insecure, body-loathing partner.



And this is where FAs freak out! Especially with partners they dont know that well. Is my partner insecure loathing their body, or is for a genuine reason? 

Here is my two cents. If you are with a caring FA, small or unintentional weight loss should not be being an issue. 

Otherwise I would like to rewrite number four, if you dont mine. 

4) If you are in a relationship with a FA, and you thinking about weight loss, please, take the time to discuss it with him (or her). They can be understanding!


----------



## magnoliagrows

loggamatt said:


> Oh, sorry Magnolia, I shouldn't have thought that you were talking about a feedee/feeder relationship from what little you wrote of your relationship, was presumptuous of me.




No need to apologize. And I understand that my situation is more complicated than what was necessarily being talked about. He's been very empathetic and caring too.  I have to be careful I can get too gushy. :batting:


----------



## magnoliagrows

chunkeymonkey said:


> I cant stuff my face with ice cream and chocolate and massive carbs and set this as an example for my kids.




I think about this too. We keep cookies and brownies around. I try to eat it when my girls aren't watching but at 5 and 3 that isn't very often. And then they ask for some. I say no so often I don't know if I'm instilling a different kind of complex - like when they get older they'll gorge themselves and hide it from me. It's scary being a mom anyway. I haven't talked about this much but it certainly is a fear I carry.


----------



## mrman1980uk

chunkeymonkey said:


> *raises hand with a question* If I get into a relationship with a fellow FA knowing what his love is and I am at the current weight I am now,How should I deal with a FA 5 years down the road when I decide then I want to lose some weight?I fight with this one in my head all the time because I met my husband at 240lbs. I gained up to 300lbs plus and then lost weight to my lowest as 210lbs now I am 240lbs again.Let me just say I didn't think at the time it would be that big of a deal till he almost had a break down with a 90 lb drop in a wife.I was at a loss because in my head I am thinking its just fat would you love me any less if I lost an arm??? Would he really leave me over losing weight??? I am thinking to myself "when I met him he had a full head of hair" Do I leave him if all the sudden he grows bald or if his working penis no longer saluted when needed?Just a few things running in my head.....



I cannot speak for your husband, but, for me, there is a very important distinction in such circumstances between, on the one hand, the physical loss of weight itself, and, on the other, the person's desire to lose weight. The former is, as you point out, largely a cosmetic thing: people undergo all manner of visual changes (you gave the example of hair loss) as they get older. People's weight fluctuates frequently, and an attractive woman will look attractive at many different weights. As somebody else pointed out, it's really not about numbers.

However, a person _wanting_ to lose weight is a very different thing. That means that something far more important than the person's physique has changed: the person's _attitude_. No longer can one be comfortable in the knowledge that one's attitudes to life are shared with one's partner: a substantial part of that all-important mental connexion is gone. There is something about somebody who _desires_ to lose weight that is unbearably disappointing: wanting to lose weight, per se (as opposed, for example, to wanting to be fit and healthy in general, irrespective of weight) is something that I see as fundamentally irrational, and there is nothing more unattractive to me than irrationality. 

That is why, for me at least, people of almost any size who are unconcerned with their weight are infinitely more attractive than people of any size who desire to be thin (or thinner): even though my preference for body shape is decidedly in favour of curviness, a thin person (within a sane and healthy value of "thin") who is indifferent to her weight is far more attractive overall than a curvy woman who wants to lose weight, and a formerly curvy woman who has unintentionally lost a good amount of weight is far more attractive than a still curvy woman who has deliberately lost even a small amount of weight. That is not to say that I do not find it alluring when a woman _gains_ weight (within reason - I do not like great extremes of weight, although I have nothing against those who do).

So, returning to the original point, whilst, as I wrote above, I cannot speak for your husband, there really is a substantial difference, for me at least, between somebody in a relationship with somebody with my preferences who _decides_ to lose weight, and somebody who shows the normal, involuntary signs of ageing. It would be like, for example, you marrying a very ambitious man who, some years into the marriage, and in the middle of what would otherwise have been a successful career, decided that working hard was too tiring, and took up a job as a part-time shop assistant instead (which would be very different to a person whom illness had forced to take the lesser job). 

Mental compatibility is of foremost importance in any intimate relationship. Whilst one must be willing to accept the inevitable bodily fluctuations of living and ageing, and can rightly be criticised for being shallow if one ceases to continue to find the object of one's former desires desirable in consequence of a predictable or ordinary change in that person's bodily appearance, there is also a sense in which a person is entitled to say, "that is not the person I married (etc.)" if some substantial aspect of that person's attitude to life changes after the relationship commences.


----------



## SamanthaNY

mrman1980uk said:


> However, a person _wanting_ to lose weight is a very different thing. That means that something far more important than the person's physique has changed: the person's _attitude_. No longer can one be comfortable in the knowledge that one's attitudes to life are shared with one's partner: a substantial part of that all-important mental connexion is gone. There is something about somebody who _desires_ to lose weight that is unbearably disappointing: wanting to lose weight, per se (as opposed, for example, to wanting to be fit and healthy in general, irrespective of weight) is something that I see as fundamentally irrational, and there is nothing more unattractive to me than irrationality.


This is the type of position that I do not understand. You are of course entitled to it, and as long as your wife/girlfriend/mate feels the same, then I guess there's no harm. But I'm confused as to how you equate a partner's desire to lose weight with a total breakdown of the mental connection between those two people. We're talking about controlling one's own body - not suddenly taping tails to the children and raising them as monkeys. It's that type of over-focus on weight and fat (and some FAs wanting to control it) that worries me most about FAs. And isn't it rather... unforgiving to see irrationality as 'unnattractive"? We all have our moments of insecurity... I know for me, that's when I need the support of my husband the most. 

How does your position account for situations where a significant weight loss is essential to deal with a health problem? It's still an intentional loss - but how could you call that disappointing or irrational? 



> Mental compatibility is of foremost importance in any intimate relationship. Whilst one must be willing to accept the inevitable bodily fluctuations of living and ageing, and can rightly be criticised for being shallow if one ceases to continue to find the object of one's former desires desirable in consequence of a predictable or ordinary change in that person's bodily appearance, there is also a sense in which a person is entitled to say, "that is not the person I married (etc.)" if some substantial aspect of that person's attitude to life changes after the relationship commences.


In essence, I agree - but what worries me is that you've put such tremendous importance on weight as a part of that relationship. Again - your choice, and I'm not condemning you personally for it. However - when viewed as part of what I perceive as the growing tendency within the community, I think it's a serious warning of a very dangerous path for all of us. Perhaps that's just my own oversensitivity to this particular subject. 

Hope so.


----------



## mrman1980uk

love dubh said:


> No disembodied discourse!
> 
> None of that "I'd love to hug/kiss so-and-so's thigh/belly/arm flap."
> 
> Why don't you want to hug/kiss SO-AND-SO? And then specify the areas that you want to love on....
> 
> I've heard it said...and it's REALLY creepy... >___>



To be fair, it's not necessarily creepy for a man to want to touch a particular part of an object of his desires: what is creepy, I think, is for a person to express what is essentially a desire to touch somebody in a sexual way otherwise than as part of an ongoing romantic relationship, or otherwise socially inappropriately. What is creepy is not so much the man's sexual interest in any given part of a woman's body, nor his consequent desire to touch such a part, but his expression of it in circumstances that lead one to conclude that he either or both (1) is incapable of restraining his sexual urges in public; or (2) views women (or, at least some women) _only_ as objects of sexual desire, rather than as people who have the property of being desirable. 

If a man were to say, in an amorous bedroom context, "I want to kiss your belly", that would not only be non-creepy, but positively tame. If the same person said the same thing, however, to a near-stranger, or even a non-romantic friend, the inappropriateness of it would make it very creepy indeed.

However, what you describe above is not a characteristic limited to those who prefer curvy women: substitute "breasts" for "belly" and the thing becomes universal. The only differentiation might be that, because there is a social taboo surrounding the discussion of breasts, and other anatomical features that nearly everyone finds attractive, people may feel more restrained from making such comments than they do about anatomical components to which no such taboos attach, such as the abdomen.


----------



## mrman1980uk

SamanthaNY said:


> This is the type of position that I do not understand. You are of course entitled to it, and as long as your wife/girlfriend/mate feels the same, then I guess there's no harm. But I'm confused as to how you equate a partner's desire to lose weight with a total breakdown of the mental connection between those two people.



I did not suggest that there was a "total" breakdown: such things are not necessarily binary. However, the extent to which a person shares the same attitudes towards life, especially the extent to which a person is rational, is an inexorably important component of any intimate relationship. Even in non-romantic relationships, people who share attitudes are closer than those who do not, and, the more shared, the better the connexion. 



> We're talking about controlling one's own body - not suddenly taping tails to the children and raising them as monkeys.



It is not the _fact_ of controlling one's own body that is the issue - it is what one wants to do with that control, and the reasons that one wants to do it. 



> It's that type of over-focus on weight and fat (and some FAs wanting to control it) that worries me most about FAs.



As I explained above, it is not the _weight_ that is the focus, but the person's _attitude_ to her body: that is demonstrated by the difference in approach to deliberate, as opposed to accidental, fluctuations in weight. The reaction would be very similar if the person chose to have (non-weight related) cosmetic surgery (other than reconstructive surgery): a realisation that the way in which the person in question views her own body is deeply flawed. 

When (1) deliberate weight loss; and (2) non-essential cosmetic surgery engender a negative reaction, whereas (3) unintentional weight loss does not, it is hard to see how one can claim that weight, rather than attitude, is the focus. 



> And isn't it rather... unforgiving to see irrationality as 'unnattractive"? We all have our moments of insecurity... I know for me, that's when I need the support of my husband the most.



No, not at all: for me, rationality is unquestionably the most important feature in a romantic partner (or, indeed, _any_ relationship that one cares to name, whether romantic or mundane). Virtually all of the world's avoidable problems are caused directly by irrationality. All adverse human traits are ultimately forms of irrationality. It is no more unforgiving to find irrationality unattractive than it is to find dishonesty or infidelity unattractive. 

As for insecurity, there is a world of difference between _feeling_ insecure, and _acting_ on those feelings, since it is only when one acts on the feelings that one takes a decision: decisions can be rational or irrational, but merely having feelings cannot be. 



> How does your position account for situations where a significant weight loss is essential to deal with a health problem? It's still an intentional loss - but how could you call that disappointing or irrational?



In those rare circumstances where losing weight _per se_ is important for health, then the position would be very different, since the decision would not be irrational. However, one must be careful to distinguish those rare situations with the far more common situation of people falsely believing that being of above-average weight is, in and of itself, and without more, unhealthy, and claiming to be losing weight for "health" reasons, based on what is ultimately spurious science (there is no clear evidence connecting all but what I at least should consider quite extreme excess of weight with overall poor health, when factors such as diet and exercise are taken into account).


----------



## chunkeymonkey

magnoliagrows said:


> I think about this too. We keep cookies and brownies around. I try to eat it when my girls aren't watching but at 5 and 3 that isn't very often. And then they ask for some. I say no so often I don't know if I'm instilling a different kind of complex - like when they get older they'll gorge themselves and hide it from me. It's scary being a mom anyway. I haven't talked about this much but it certainly is a fear I carry.



I find myself in a hard place with that all the time.


----------



## chunkeymonkey

mrman1980uk said:


> I cannot speak for your husband, but, for me, there is a very important distinction in such circumstances between, on the one hand, the physical loss of weight itself, and, on the other, the person's desire to lose weight. The former is, as you point out, largely a cosmetic thing: people undergo all manner of visual changes (you gave the example of hair loss) as they get older. People's weight fluctuates frequently, and an attractive woman will look attractive at many different weights. As somebody else pointed out, it's really not about numbers.
> 
> However, a person _wanting_ to lose weight is a very different thing. That means that something far more important than the person's physique has changed: the person's _attitude_. No longer can one be comfortable in the knowledge that one's attitudes to life are shared with one's partner: a substantial part of that all-important mental connexion is gone. There is something about somebody who _desires_ to lose weight that is unbearably disappointing: wanting to lose weight, per se (as opposed, for example, to wanting to be fit and healthy in general, irrespective of weight) is something that I see as fundamentally irrational, and there is nothing more unattractive to me than irrationality.
> 
> That is why, for me at least, people of almost any size who are unconcerned with their weight are infinitely more attractive than people of any size who desire to be thin (or thinner): even though my preference for body shape is decidedly in favour of curviness, a thin person (within a sane and healthy value of "thin") who is indifferent to her weight is far more attractive overall than a curvy woman who wants to lose weight, and a formerly curvy woman who has unintentionally lost a good amount of weight is far more attractive than a still curvy woman who has deliberately lost even a small amount of weight. That is not to say that I do not find it alluring when a woman _gains_ weight (within reason - I do not like great extremes of weight, although I have nothing against those who do).
> 
> So, returning to the original point, whilst, as I wrote above, I cannot speak for your husband, there really is a substantial difference, for me at least, between somebody in a relationship with somebody with my preferences who _decides_ to lose weight, and somebody who shows the normal, involuntary signs of ageing. It would be like, for example, you marrying a very ambitious man who, some years into the marriage, and in the middle of what would otherwise have been a successful career, decided that working hard was too tiring, and took up a job as a part-time shop assistant instead (which would be very different to a person whom illness had forced to take the lesser job).
> 
> Mental compatibility is of foremost importance in any intimate relationship. Whilst one must be willing to accept the inevitable bodily fluctuations of living and ageing, and can rightly be criticised for being shallow if one ceases to continue to find the object of one's former desires desirable in consequence of a predictable or ordinary change in that person's bodily appearance, there is also a sense in which a person is entitled to say, "that is not the person I married (etc.)" if some substantial aspect of that person's attitude to life changes after the relationship commences.



Yes I guess i have this thoughts running through my head and I understand the huge disapointment weightloss brings to a FA.I find myself not wanting to lose weight but to sculpt my body.I would love to have a nice round ass and bigger boobs but all my weight hits my stomach.HA HA I am actually seriously considering ass implants.....Imagine this a fat girl going to the dr. and asking for more curves.Maybe this will be a first who knows but i will do it.


----------



## waldo

SamanthaNY said:


> .......................So - to answer your question, CM - the way you deal with it is to ferret out the FAs that want a relationship with _you_... and choose them over the ones that want a relationship with your body.



Well you could always have a relationship with a gay guy because they are going to be the only ones not interested in a relationship with your body.  

Seriously though, as already stated above you can't expect a complete relationship without the physical attraction spark. It just isn't natural unfortunately. And if that attraction decreases the relationship will suffer to some extent. It's simply a fact of life.

And as Loggamutt said, beware of any guy (or woman) who claims to be attracted to all types of women (men). That is BS - everyone has their preferences.


----------



## waldo

bigplaidpants said:


> ................. As I try to think about the my experience as an FA, I have to say I think health is the ghost that haunts everything. Perhaps, this whole webboard....



Yes and as time goes on, it will be more so the health issue than esthetics that will stand in the way of a greater level of fat acceptance in the general community.


----------



## stan_der_man

SamanthaNY said:


> This is the type of position that I do not understand. ... But I'm confused as to how you equate a partner's desire to lose weight with a total breakdown of the mental connection between those two people. We're talking about controlling one's own body - not suddenly taping tails to the children and raising them as monkeys. It's that type of over-focus on weight and fat (and some FAs wanting to control it) that worries me most about FAs.



I don't want to incorrectly speak for Loggamat, but I didn't really interpret his writing to equate a partner's desire to loose weight would in and of itself cause a total "breakdown of the mental connection between" the two people (fa and fat person); I think there are other issues involved. This is something I'm dealing with myself at the moment, so maybe this is just my interpretation of what Loggamat wrote. To make a long story short my wife recently had WLS, a decision that she made unilaterally for all practical purposes. Maybe this is more of a WLS issue, but I think some of the principles are the same as somebody deciding to loose weight the regular way. My wife decided to have WLS and loose weight for health reasons. I didn't approve of her decision, but I felt it wasn't my place to tell her what to do with her body. I had always encouraged her to exercise more and eat healthy, which I felt she disregarded. I believe in the NAAFA mantra (as I understand it anyway...) that a person can be large and healthy and loosing weight isn't an end goal. Loosing weight will often happen if a person eats healthfully, and in my opinion that's not a problem. Growing up as an fa I never had anybody to talk to about my feelings or preference. I never had anybody who supported my values as a young fa. I thought that I had found a soul mate that would relate to my preference for larger women, and initially she had at one time. To me I think this is the idea of "total breakdown of the mental connection" that takes place. My rephrasing of this would be, loosing a mutually held ideal or preference with your spouse. I felt it was somewhat of a betrayal to me, an abandonment of my values as a fa. Gone are my ideals and philosophies of admiring large women or admiring her figure. We no longer share this. I still love her and I'm willing to appreciate "the rest of the package" so to speak. I find her attractive in a different way now, in all honesty I find the effects of WLS to be weird and I may never get fully used to it or accept it, but I will try to find other things in our relationship to replace what I feel is gone. Maybe this is just my unique case, but I think a lot of fas deal with their preferences in isolation, without any support or very little. I can understand how some fas may be overly sensitive to their significant others loosing weight. I now once again have no support, no vindication of my preference. People complement my wife about how wonderful she looks "skinny". I don't mind her being happy and feeling a sense of accomplishment, I think that's a good thing. I once mentioned to my mom (and my birth mom also) that I missed her larger figure; the response was basically that I should be happy that she lost weight. My preferences as a fa are as low as dirt, I feel it's constantly rubbed in my face. Is my wife's health any better? Some of her ailments as a large woman are gone. Others have been replaced with those of a person who's had WLS. From what I've seen that happens to dieters to some extent also, many end up having gall stones. That's how I see it.

Stan


----------



## Brenda

Wow, Stan I appreciate you writing that.

I sense that my partner is uncomfortable sharing his opinion of when I lose or gain because he feels that it is wrong of him to interject his desires on my body. He is an FA but has a wide range of attraction to large woman. He has dated woman much smaller than I am currently but they were at all at least past chubby.

Two years ago after the "somewhat" weight related death of my sister I chose to address my health by losing about 100 lbs. While I am still rather fat I am more of a bbw than a ssbbw. He knows I lost weight out of fear for my life and because of actual physical problems I was having. He has been supportive but not "too" supportive.

While I sense his level of attraction has been consistent I wonder if he thinks I plan to get thin. 

Brenda


----------



## rainyday

Stan, that was a very heartfelt post and I'm guessing putting it out there took a deep breath before you hit submit. Thank you for sharing that. I don't think I've ever seen the sense of isolation an FA might feel in that situation articulated like that, and I'm sure you're not alone. Have you ever checked yahoo groups to see if there is a group for that--for FAs whose partners/spouses have had WLS? There seems to be a support group for just about everything else on there. I participated in one for a while for something pertinent in my life and found it very useful.


----------



## stan_der_man

Brenda said:


> Wow, Stan I appreciate you writing that.
> 
> I sense that my partner is uncomfortable sharing his opinion of when I lose or gain because he feels that it is wrong of him to interject his desires on my body. He is an FA but has a wide range of attraction to large woman. He has dated woman much smaller than I am currently but they were at all at least past chubby.
> 
> Two years ago after the "somewhat" weight related death of my sister I chose to address my health by losing about 100 lbs. While I am still rather fat I am more of a bbw than a ssbbw. He knows I lost weight out of fear for my life and because of actual physical problems I was having. He has been supportive but not "too" supportive.
> 
> While I sense his level of attraction has been consistent I wonder if he thinks I plan to get thin.
> 
> Brenda



I hope I didn't come across as bitter, but it took me a long time to find acceptance with being a fa, and I fear loosing what I had. I thought other fas might be in the same situation. Your partner seems like a good person to respect your body, I think that's simply the right thing to do. He sounds like me, offering only "passive" support, but support nontheless.

Stan


----------



## liz (di-va)

fa_man_stan said:


> This is something I'm dealing with myself at the moment, so maybe this is just my interpretation of what Loggamat wrote.



I found your post very moving, Stan... Just wanted to let you know that. Seems a hard position to be in.


----------



## stan_der_man

rainyday said:


> Stan, that was a very heartfelt post and I'm guessing putting it out there took a deep breath before you hit submit. Thank you for sharing that. I don't think I've ever seen the sense of isolation an FA might feel in that situation articulated like that, and I'm sure you're not alone. Have you ever checked yahoo groups to see if there is a group for that--for FAs whose partners/spouses have had WLS? There seems to be a support group for just about everything else on there. I participated in one for a while for something pertinent in my life and found it very useful.



Thanks Rainyday! That's a good idea about the Yahoo groups for FA / WLS partners; I'll take a look. I tried to go to one of her WLS group meetings but I didn't feel comfortable (it was very awkward for me), and my wife doesn't feel comfortable (apprehensive anyway) about rejoining NAAFA or things relating to Dimensions. I have been mulling this for a while and almost burst into a rant on the WLS board a few times, but thought it best not to. The time and place felt right for me to do it here.

I appreciate the support Liz(di-va)!

Stan


----------



## waldo

rainyday said:


> Stan, that was a very heartfelt post and I'm guessing putting it out there took a deep breath before you hit submit. Thank you for sharing that. I don't think I've ever seen the sense of isolation an FA might feel in that situation articulated like that, and I'm sure you're not alone. Have you ever checked yahoo groups to see if there is a group for that--for FAs whose partners/spouses have had WLS? There seems to be a support group for just about everything else on there. I participated in one for a while for something pertinent in my life and found it very useful.



The way I understand it, one of the intended roles of Dimensions is to act as a support group for us FAs. The other is to offer the women of our desires a chance to learn about us. I am glad to see the FAs given the chance to express their feelings on this thread without being shouted down. In fact, I see the diplomatic input from the women as a real benefit to the discussion. This thread really is Dimensions at its best!

I also am one whose wife has gone from being okay with her size to wanting to and succeeding in losing weight. While she did so partly out of concern for health, she also admittedly used it as a way to 'get back at me' for what she perceived as me neglecting her and being too focused on my job.  Well she knew when she married me that I was a hard-working Type A person. As already stated above, this is the type of thing that will be a problem for the relationship more than the weight loss itself -motivations behind it that are not necessarily legitimate.


----------



## bigplaidpants

fa_man_stan said:


> ....This is something I'm dealing with myself at the moment, ....
> 
> Stan




Stan,

<sits silent for a minute>

I feel heartache, for you as a person/husband, but also as a FA. I don't know if you're a religious/spiritual person. (I'm more of a confused religious cynic with deep convictions.) I've already lifted you up in my thoughts....and will continue to. If I had just a few more dollars, I'd hop on my Goldwing, head out Route 66 and catch you in a couple a days. We could grab a soda/coffee/beer. Your choice.

....Isolation? Yeah. You'd be the first FA I ever went and hung out with.....just as another FA.

Thanks for your post. You risked, and in doing so, opened up a window into something few get a chance to see about FA's, committed FA's, who love.

Peace,
Matt
bigplaidpants


----------



## Santaclear

fa_man_stan said:


> ......That's how I see it.



Wow, Stan, that's a lot for you both to deal with.


----------



## chunkeymonkey

waldo said:


> The way I understand it, one of the intended roles of Dimensions is to act as a support group for us FAs. The other is to offer the women of our desires a chance to learn about us. I am glad to see the FAs given the chance to express their feelings on this thread without being shouted down. In fact, I see the diplomatic input from the women as a real benefit to the discussion. This thread really is Dimensions at its best!
> 
> I also am one whose wife has gone from being okay with her size to wanting to and succeeding in losing weight. While she did so partly out of concern for health, she also admittedly used it as a way to 'get back at me' for what she perceived as me neglecting her and being too focused on my job.  Well she knew when she married me that I was a hard-working Type A person. As already stated above, this is the type of thing that will be a problem for the relationship more than the weight loss itself -motivations behind it that are not necessarily legitimate.



I can empathize with you on one hand and understand a little from the other.I get the pay back attention getting.My husband works long and hard.Now this could also raise another question as to an FA....my husband is not social unless it is work related and even then he does not like a social setting.He is also analytical and to a point I understand that.My question comes down to if he is a proud FA why wouldnt he want to take me out and be proud and show me off.We rarely go out together mind you we have 2 small children but still he relies on me to handle everything if I want something.In the end I am left with him saying "what do you want me to do?"Sometimes I feel like If he doesnt want to put in any effort why should I. Therefore I find myself with this huge daggar and I found the ultimate sore spot.....MY FAT. I get his attention by losing weight and yes I get the attention for a little bit but in the end find myself drifting further from him. Maybe I dont understand all the dimensions of an FA or maybe the meaning of what attracts you to a person is what you will end up hating the most.My husband loved me for my fat and for me but now i feel resentment because now I fear he only loves me for my fat. This may all be in my head but I find when I hear other FA's tell their side of their feelings on this I get a better grip on my situation.
I know I have been on many threads that have ripped a new hole for the FA's but hopefully this one can be a bit more civil and heartfelt rather than taken in criticism.
Thanks for all the great responses both from the BBW side and the FA's.


----------



## chunkeymonkey

fa_man_stan said:


> I don't want to incorrectly speak for Loggamat, but I didn't really interpret his writing to equate a partner's desire to loose weight would in and of itself cause a total "breakdown of the mental connection between" the two people (fa and fat person); I think there are other issues involved. This is something I'm dealing with myself at the moment, so maybe this is just my interpretation of what Loggamat wrote. To make a long story short my wife recently had WLS, a decision that she made unilaterally for all practical purposes. Maybe this is more of a WLS issue, but I think some of the principles are the same as somebody deciding to loose weight the regular way. My wife decided to have WLS and loose weight for health reasons. I didn't approve of her decision, but I felt it wasn't my place to tell her what to do with her body. I had always encouraged her to exercise more and eat healthy, which I felt she disregarded. I believe in the NAAFA mantra (as I understand it anyway...) that a person can be large and healthy and loosing weight isn't an end goal. Loosing weight will often happen if a person eats healthfully, and in my opinion that's not a problem. Growing up as an fa I never had anybody to talk to about my feelings or preference. I never had anybody who supported my values as a young fa. I thought that I had found a soul mate that would relate to my preference for larger women, and initially she had at one time. To me I think this is the idea of "total breakdown of the mental connection" that takes place. My rephrasing of this would be, loosing a mutually held ideal or preference with your spouse. I felt it was somewhat of a betrayal to me, an abandonment of my values as a fa. Gone are my ideals and philosophies of admiring large women or admiring her figure. We no longer share this. I still love her and I'm willing to appreciate "the rest of the package" so to speak. I find her attractive in a different way now, in all honesty I find the effects of WLS to be weird and I may never get fully used to it or accept it, but I will try to find other things in our relationship to replace what I feel is gone. Maybe this is just my unique case, but I think a lot of fas deal with their preferences in isolation, without any support or very little. I can understand how some fas may be overly sensitive to their significant others loosing weight. I now once again have no support, no vindication of my preference. People complement my wife about how wonderful she looks "skinny". I don't mind her being happy and feeling a sense of accomplishment, I think that's a good thing. I once mentioned to my mom (and my birth mom also) that I missed her larger figure; the response was basically that I should be happy that she lost weight. My preferences as a fa are as low as dirt, I feel it's constantly rubbed in my face. Is my wife's health any better? Some of her ailments as a large woman are gone. Others have been replaced with those of a person who's had WLS. From what I've seen that happens to dieters to some extent also, many end up having gall stones. That's how I see it.
> 
> Stan



I understand your heartache...sorry.I had to have my gallbladder removed shortly after child birth.In one day after having my son I dropped 25 lbs and the fluctuation of hormones ended me in the ER thinking I was dying from a heart attack,when in reality it was a gall bladder attack.I had It removed shortly after but then you are confined to a little stricter diet of way less fat.Life can be such a catch 22.


----------



## SamanthaNY

fa_man_stan said:


> This is something I'm dealing with myself at the moment... Stan



Okay, now this I understand, Stan. Thank you... this is the first post by an FA which really explains the situation in a way that I connected with. For some reason, a lot of the other posts just didn't get through to me. But in yours, I see that you do care deeply for your wife, and that her decision to change her body has left you with a pretty powerful sense of loss - not necessarily for her body (that part I always understood, and rejected - unfairly, I admit - as 'superficial'), but I read an emotional loss in your words as well. A loss of a commonality you both shared. As you've expressed it, I now understand. I was also surprised to hear your statements of FAs being somewhat isolated and unsupported, and this makes complete sense when explained _outside _the subject of sex. I guess I never realized just how important it could be as part of some relationships. 

I appreciate you sharing what must be a very personal and private situation for you, Stan. I am at once impressed and humbled by your expression, because it's taught me that I didn't look deeply enough into this subject... and I thought I had. Thanks to your efforts, some of the other posts make more sense to me. 



waldo said:


> I am glad to see the FAs given the chance to express their feelings on this thread without being shouted down. In fact, I see the diplomatic input from the women as a real benefit to the discussion. This thread really is Dimensions at its best!


Amen to that - I think I can safely say that this is one of the most significant threads I've ever participated in. I only hope others reading the words can gain as much as I think I have by participating. 



waldo said:


> she also admittedly used it as a way to 'get back at me' for what she perceived as me neglecting her and being too focused on my job.  Well she knew when she married me that I was a hard-working Type A person. As already stated above, this is the type of thing that will be a problem for the relationship more than the weight loss itself -motivations behind it that are not necessarily legitimate.


This makes me very sad, Waldo - to hear that this was part of what happened to you. And I think it's important that you qualify it as the _motivation _being the more impactful element rather than the weightloss. 

I have to say I'm really stunned. Is it that we've never delved into this issue this deeply, or have you people all gotten a lot smarter? (kidding, lol) Or am I _finally _smartening up enough to just now understand things like this? I think this is teaching me that my feelings and opinions about something aren't always enough to help me understand it (if that makes sense). Whatever the reason may be, I feel enlightened and educated to such a high degree, and its thanks to all of you.


----------



## Tad

SamanthaNY said:


> I have to say I'm really stunned. Is it that we've never delved into this issue this deeply, or have you people all gotten a lot smarter? (kidding, lol) Or am I _finally _smartening up enough to just now understand things like this?



I think we are fortunate to have had a conjunction of mature FA in long term relationships who are articulate and open. Reading most of this thread I've been feeling a mix of excited "Yes, exactly!" mixed with frustrated "How come I could never get it across that clearly?" I'm in the process of handing out rep like like crazy (I'll get to you all eventually--but there are limits to how much you can give in a certain amount of time....), this has been an awesome thread.

I would say we've never really delved into this issue deeply before. I think in part that is we haven't had the contributors who could really explain it at that level, and I think in part it is maturity of the board. Like in any relationship it takes time to get to the really deep stuff. It makes me glad that I've stuck with Dimensions all these years!

For what it is worth, several years ago I ran a yahoo group for "FA-hubands" (and later replaced it with one named in a less gender-specific way). At the time I'd been of the opinion that guys would never open up on these issues on the Dimensions boards. There was some interesting posts in that group, but nothing at this level I think. So I'm glad to see I was totally wrong about the limits of these boards.

-Ed


----------



## Tracyarts

waldo said:


> And as Loggamutt said, beware of any guy (or woman) who claims to be attracted to all types of women (men). That is BS - everyone has their preferences.



Why would you beware of me (after all, I am one of those people who claims (no actually I know without a doubt, myself to be) attracted to all types of men?

Is the fact that I don't have one specific body height, shape, size, color, etc... which I have picked again and again above all others a problem? Is the fact that my preferences tend to follow more subtle physical attributes, or non-physical attributes really "BS"?

Tracy


----------



## BubbleButtBabe

fa_man_stan said:


> To me I think this is the idea of "total breakdown of the mental connection" that takes place. My rephrasing of this would be, loosing a mutually held ideal or preference with your spouse. I felt
> it was somewhat of a betrayal to me, an abandonment of my values as a fa.



So instead of realizing the surgery could be a way of adding more years to her life,which would be spent with you,you internalized it as a betrayal..You let some thing she did for herself and her body affect you to much..I realize you fell for your wife because of her size but didn't her spirit keep you with her?




fa_man_stan said:


> Gone are my ideals and philosophies of admiring large women or admiring her figure. We no longer share this. I still love her and I'm willing to appreciate "the rest of the package" so to speak. I find her attractive in a different way now, in all honesty I find the effects of WLS to be weird and I may never get fully used to it or accept it, but I will try to find other things in our relationship to replace what I feel is gone.



I get the part of you admiring her figure, but why should it dash your ideals and philosophies of admiring larger women? Can you still not admire them? Have you set in your mind that the one woman you love, has changed her body so much the rest of the larger women are no longer attractive? Doesn't hurt to look,just can't touch! I understand change is hard to get use to and even harder to deal with at first..It can be done tho..You just have to dig a bit deeper..





> Maybe this is just my unique case, but I think a lot of fas deal with their preferences in isolation, without any support or very little. I can understand how some fas may be overly sensitive to their significant others loosing weight. I now once again have no support, no vindication of my preference. People complement my wife about how wonderful she looks "skinny". I don't mind her being happy and feeling a sense of accomplishment, I think that's a good thing. I once mentioned to my mom (and my birth mom also) that I missed her larger figure; the response was basically that I should be happy that she lost weight. My preferences as a fa are as low as dirt, I feel it's constantly rubbed in my face. That's how I see it.
> 
> Stan



You can not take what your Mom and birth Mom said to heart..They are just responding the way the rest of society has..It is pushed at us 24/7,that any kind of weight loss is great,the media bombard us with this type of propaganda over and over,day in and day out. My suggestion is to keep admiring the larger ladies,again doesn't hurt to look..Reconnect with your wife on a different level then from a FA with his BBW..I am sorry if this steps to hard on your toes Stan..I am just trying to play the devil's advocate a bit..So flame me if you must..


----------



## fatgirlflyin

BubbleButtBabe said:


> I get the part of you admiring her figure, but why should it dash your ideals and philosophies of admiring larger women? Can you still not admire them? Have you set in your mind that the one woman you love, has changed her body so much the rest of the larger women are no longer attractive? Doesn't hurt to look,just can't touch! I understand change is hard to get use to and even harder to deal with at first..It can be done tho..You just have to dig a bit deeper..



I can see how it would start to feel a little hypocritical. Saying you prefer fat women but are married to a skinny one. We flame men for saying that they prefer fat women but date/marry skinny ones. This is kinda the same thing, only he married a fat woman (a woman who's body type was most attractive to him) and he doesn't have that anymore.


----------



## Tad

BubbleButtBabe said:


> I get the part of you admiring her figure, but why should it dash your ideals and philosophies of admiring larger women? Can you still not admire them?



Something that seems hard for a lot of people to really get is that for a lot of FA it is not only, or even mostly about preferring the look of a larger body of the gender(s) that appeals to you. That is, it is not just a visual thing, and not even just a sensory thing (it is more than the sight and the feel together, although are certainly awesome). I’m not saying that this is true for all FA, for some I think it is just a visual and/or tactile thing.

However for at least some portion of us, it is also the idea, concept, philosophy, myth, or some-other-word of it. The thought can be even more potent than the image or feel. I’ve sometimes called myself a feeder, not because I want to make someone fat, but because the concept of someone wanting to be fat is just incredibly powerfully erotic to me. It is not so much about the actual gaining as the wanting to gain, and even then it is not so much the gain as gaining as a symbol of embracing fat.

I don’t know about anyone else on these boards, but this would probably count as dirty talk to me: “When I was looking for a new place to live I decided a condo loft would be best, because stairs are hard for fat folk and the open layout of a condo means that I can set it up so that there is lots of room for fat bodies to move around without bumping into things. I put in a nice spacious washroom, with a huge shower stall with a bench and wall mounted bars in it, so no matter what showering is not a problem. I made sure none of the kitchen cupboards were too high, because getting up and down on a step stool is a no-no. I made sure to get a huge fridge and a separate freezer, as well as a big pantry, because I always want to be well stocked with food. I made sure to choose a building with two elevators, so that it is unlikely they’d both be out of service at the same time, because I don’t ever want to have to climb seven flights of stairs.” It would not matter if the speaker were male or female, fat or thin, gaining or not—that sort of conscious decision to make fat a central consideration in their life would be hot. 

Or to look at it another way, write “fat” in the middle of a page of paper, and start brainstorming things associated with it. Say write down “bigger clothes” and from there go onto “plus sized clothing stores” and “adapting skinny fashions to big bodies.” Start another branch with “heavier” and go on to “takes more energy to move,” “slower,” and “get tired more quickly” on one sub-branch and “worried about breaking things” on another. Go on and add “looks fat” and “takes more space” "fat acrtress" and "sumo wrestlers" and every other factor and sub-factor that you can think of. They probably all grab my attention.

By way of analogy, think of a hard core fan of whatever sport is popular where you live. They watch it, they memorize statistics, they may have pictures from it on their computer, they know famous figures from the past of the sport, they know what is happening in a related league half way across the world and they can generally discuss it for endless hours. Maybe instead of a “fat admirer” you should call me a “fan of fat,” I guess you’d call that a FoF?

For me, and I believe for at least some other portion of FA, it is not “fat: the look” it is “fat: the constellation of associated ideas” or something like that. In my ideal world my partner would be just as interested, and we could have entire conversations debating the various merits of fat guys wearing their pants above or below the belly, or whether facial blush should be applied to a woman’s double chin when it is large enough that part of it faces forward, and might contrast with the &#8216;blushed’ tone of the cheeks. (I get to have lots of other great conversations with my wife, but unfortunately fat topics are not amongst them).

If you are partners with an FA of this type, any time you decide to reduce the role of fat in your life, you are cutting off some of their interests. It is far more than just how you look. Now, if you feel you need to lose weight but can still support the other fan of fat stuff, I think you will have the gratitude of your FoF partner. 

Of course, in many marriages you have one partner who is a fan of something and another who does not share those interests, and those partnerships can work out just fine. The problem when it comes to fat as opposed to say football (of whatever flavor), is that there is a good chance that you are the star player in their universe. Becks going to play in the USA is nothing on your partner deciding they don’t want to be fat. In football there can be another star, but if you are in a serious relationship there is no other star, ever—at least not one that you can allow yourself to get passionate about. (or almost—depending on the interests of the FoF they might enjoy getting fat themselves, but without anyone to appreciate that, it rings a bit hollow).

Now, whatever thoughts have built up in your head, take a deep breath before expressing them. I have exaggerated here. I think for any well balanced individual it is not as extreme as I’ve presented it, and the extreme case is always a ridiculous one. But I presented the extreme to help illuminate the more normal case. Maybe your partner is on half that way, or one tenth. But it may give you a concept of how they are feeling.

And to say it one more time: I’m not saying all FA are like that. In fact I’m not saying that any FA other than me are just like that. But from talking to a lot of FA around Dimensions over a lot of years, I think a good number of FA are somewhat like that.

Regards;

-Ed


----------



## Jellybean

I'm pretty new here and I just wanted to applaud how candid and articulate people have been in this thread.

Recently I've had the chance to explore the "fan of fat" erotic issues Ed discusses above with someone in a virtual context. It has been an intense, thrilling and freeing sense of connection and understanding. However, it has been frustrating to come to terms with the fact that in the usual ways of meeting people in the "real world", it is difficult enough to meet personalities you click with in people you're attracted to, let alone share a very particular erotic fantasy life. And that feels sad to me - I understand relationships are trade-offs and I'm not willing to sacrifice other things in order to make the erotic fantasy life the number one priority. But ideally, it would be a wonderfully intimate experience to have the whole package.

I've spent most of my life hoping people could see beyond my size and there have been times in my life if a man I was being intimate with even acknowledged he noticed my round curves (ha! of course he noticed!), I would feel deeply criticized even if the remark had been meant tenderly. Thankfully, I have gotten over this, but I think men worth their salt are aware of these issues and it can feel very uncomfortable and risky to discuss their feelings about a BBW's shape.

I also feel grateful that I have had many women to process issues around fat and body image and self-esteem. To make a sweeping generalization, men aren't socialized to discuss their feelings and it seems as if many FAs have to figure out this stuff in isolation. And that's a hard place to be.

So I guess it's a good thing we have this thread!


----------



## RedVelvet

This is the best goddamn thread I have ever read on this Board....

Stan: You made me cry.

BigPlaidPants: Best. New. Guy. Ever.

edx: Wow....what interesting and ASTUTE insights!...Made me think. 

Samantha: Well..I fucking love you, girl....

....and so many more.

I am deeply touched and moved by a great deal of what was said here.



Thank you for putting a HUGE chink in my misanthropy today.....

XO,

JKD


----------



## chunkeymonkey

edx said:


> Something that seems hard for a lot of people to really get is that for a lot of FA it is not only, or even mostly about preferring the look of a larger body of the gender(s) that appeals to you. That is, it is not just a visual thing, and not even just a sensory thing (it is more than the sight and the feel together, although are certainly awesome). Im not saying that this is true for all FA, for some I think it is just a visual and/or tactile thing.
> 
> However for at least some portion of us, it is also the idea, concept, philosophy, myth, or some-other-word of it. The thought can be even more potent than the image or feel. Ive sometimes called myself a feeder, not because I want to make someone fat, but because the concept of someone wanting to be fat is just incredibly powerfully erotic to me. It is not so much about the actual gaining as the wanting to gain, and even then it is not so much the gain as gaining as a symbol of embracing fat.
> 
> I dont know about anyone else on these boards, but this would probably count as dirty talk to me: When I was looking for a new place to live I decided a condo loft would be best, because stairs are hard for fat folk and the open layout of a condo means that I can set it up so that there is lots of room for fat bodies to move around without bumping into things. I put in a nice spacious washroom, with a huge shower stall with a bench and wall mounted bars in it, so no matter what showering is not a problem. I made sure none of the kitchen cupboards were too high, because getting up and down on a step stool is a no-no. I made sure to get a huge fridge and a separate freezer, as well as a big pantry, because I always want to be well stocked with food. I made sure to choose a building with two elevators, so that it is unlikely theyd both be out of service at the same time, because I dont ever want to have to climb seven flights of stairs. It would not matter if the speaker were male or female, fat or thin, gaining or notthat sort of conscious decision to make fat a central consideration in their life would be hot.
> 
> Or to look at it another way, write fat in the middle of a page of paper, and start brainstorming things associated with it. Say write down bigger clothes and from there go onto plus sized clothing stores and adapting skinny fashions to big bodies. Start another branch with heavier and go on to takes more energy to move, slower, and get tired more quickly on one sub-branch and worried about breaking things on another. Go on and add looks fat and takes more space "fat acrtress" and "sumo wrestlers" and every other factor and sub-factor that you can think of. They probably all grab my attention.
> 
> By way of analogy, think of a hard core fan of whatever sport is popular where you live. They watch it, they memorize statistics, they may have pictures from it on their computer, they know famous figures from the past of the sport, they know what is happening in a related league half way across the world and they can generally discuss it for endless hours. Maybe instead of a fat admirer you should call me a fan of fat, I guess youd call that a FoF?
> 
> For me, and I believe for at least some other portion of FA, it is not fat: the look it is fat: the constellation of associated ideas or something like that. In my ideal world my partner would be just as interested, and we could have entire conversations debating the various merits of fat guys wearing their pants above or below the belly, or whether facial blush should be applied to a womans double chin when it is large enough that part of it faces forward, and might contrast with the blushed tone of the cheeks. (I get to have lots of other great conversations with my wife, but unfortunately fat topics are not amongst them).
> 
> If you are partners with an FA of this type, any time you decide to reduce the role of fat in your life, you are cutting off some of their interests. It is far more than just how you look. Now, if you feel you need to lose weight but can still support the other fan of fat stuff, I think you will have the gratitude of your FoF partner.
> 
> Of course, in many marriages you have one partner who is a fan of something and another who does not share those interests, and those partnerships can work out just fine. The problem when it comes to fat as opposed to say football (of whatever flavor), is that there is a good chance that you are the star player in their universe. Becks going to play in the USA is nothing on your partner deciding they dont want to be fat. In football there can be another star, but if you are in a serious relationship there is no other star, everat least not one that you can allow yourself to get passionate about. (or almostdepending on the interests of the FoF they might enjoy getting fat themselves, but without anyone to appreciate that, it rings a bit hollow).
> 
> Now, whatever thoughts have built up in your head, take a deep breath before expressing them. I have exaggerated here. I think for any well balanced individual it is not as extreme as Ive presented it, and the extreme case is always a ridiculous one. But I presented the extreme to help illuminate the more normal case. Maybe your partner is on half that way, or one tenth. But it may give you a concept of how they are feeling.
> 
> And to say it one more time: Im not saying all FA are like that. In fact Im not saying that any FA other than me are just like that. But from talking to a lot of FA around Dimensions over a lot of years, I think a good number of FA are somewhat like that.
> 
> Regards;
> 
> -Ed



The great thing with you is, you put a lot of thought into your wife and others who are fat.That is something that we appreciate the thoughtful gestures that show you care.
When I think back to the very first time I found out my husband was a FA was a bit of a shock.Now this is pushing almost 11 years ago and I was 21 and he said he loves big girls and I thought to myself "well you got one here".He left the room and brought back a Dimensions magazine....LOL we have every issue BTW.HE showed me a picture of a 450 lb woman in some lingerie.First thought that came to mind was is that the way you see me is that big?Is that where you want me to be?Instead of asking I kind of but it to the back burner and left it alone.
I will never forget the first time I told my friends that my husband was a FA.They wanted me to join the gym and lose weight thinking that would put spark back into a relationship...HAHA I said I wouldnt because my husband would not like it if I lost weight.They didnt know what to say.....they looked as if they were told their house burned down and were still in shock.

What I have often wondered is I know there are a wide range of preferences with FA's and FFA"S.When you are out with your partner do window shop looking at other Fat women or men?
I often find myself telling my husband about some hottie he should check out.Sorry for all the questions its just nice to see things from the FA's side.Help clarify things on my end.


----------



## bigplaidpants

edx said:


> Something that seems hard for a lot of people to really get is that for a lot of FA it is not only, or even mostly about preferring the look of a larger body of the gender(s) that appeals to you. That is, it is not just a visual thing, and not even just a sensory thing (it is more than the sight and the feel together, although are certainly awesome).
> 
> ... for at least some portion of us, it is also the idea, concept, philosophy, myth, or some-other-word of it. The thought can be even more potent than the image or feel. I’ve sometimes called myself a feeder, not because I want to make someone fat, but because the concept of someone wanting to be fat is just incredibly powerfully erotic to me. It is not so much about the actual gaining as the wanting to gain, and even then it is not so much the gain as gaining as a symbol of embracing fat. ...
> 
> For me, and I believe for at least some other portion of FA, it is not “fat: the look” it is “fat: the constellation of associated ideas” or something like that. In my ideal world my partner would be just as interested, .... If you are partners with an FA of this type, any time you decide to reduce the role of fat in your life, you are cutting off some of their interests. It is far more than just how you look....
> 
> Regards;
> 
> -Ed



Hear, Hear! Ed, and I'll include Stan! My virtual FA comrades. They do a great job of pointing toward something that I find difficult to describe, even intangible for me, about being an FA. I've attempted to get at it in the idea of a FA or fat Spirituality.

My wife, on this board, uses an avatar of a big-bodied cosmic goddess. She wears a similar pendant around her neck from time to time. It is a large voluptuous woman-goddess with a large spiral swirling around the belly. This symbol speaks speaks more to me than just how much she weighs.

Regardless of how much she weighs, there is something in that symbol that speaks to both of us. My wife and bestfriend is not a large fat woman, but whatever resemblence she has to that image, we both share and relish in both in and out of bed.

I ache in some of these board discussions, because I think FA's are painted in the same stroke and color of the classic male stereotype. In this, I see the reality of ongoing sexism and the gender gap continuing with FAism only giving it "new dimensions." 

How many of us hve seen or written posts ourselves where BBW's have had to remind FA's "I'm not just a fat body; I'm a person." FA's bear responsibility, IMO, for misplacing their fantasizing and inappropriate objectification. Because of the power of sexism and men's ongoing privilege to objectify women in our culture, I share these sentiments with BBW's the best I can. But, unfortunately being an ally in the battle cry against callous and shallow objectificaiton does little to broaden our sense of the depth and richness of fat eroticism. One of the best things about Dim, is it actually provides a space for FFA's, BBW's, BHM to be included in this discussion. However, I also still see that FA's still need to prove themselves as more than just factory seconds or misdirected hornballs with an eye only to consuming, controlling, or owning the large or fat female figure. I don't blame any person here for that. I'm also not whining "victimization!" I'm just trying to make an observation. FA's, for being men who's form of erotics stand out as being different, are still subject to the scrutiny of being, well, men.

I don't want to be misunderstood. No doubt....NO DOUBT....many men, including many FA's, reinforce these stereotypes in their demeanor and behavior in relation to woman of all sizes. I see it often on the boards. But, just perpetuating such stereotypes never get below the surface to appreciate FAism as some of us FA's live and experience it. For me, it goes deeper to appreciating more deeply the erotic altogether. I think eroticism in general, and fat eroticism in particular, goes well beyond body lust and pleasure-sex. In my sense of it, there is a myriad of intimate forces at work: both intense love and attraction for the person, a capacity for exciting depth and deviance, and even worship and adoration for our bodies and sensuality, which leads on a path of intimacy that only FAism makes possible for me.

While my wife's size and weight are intimately tied to that, it certainly is not the only aspect that holds us and my fat eroticism together for me. For me, Ed and Stan both do a great job of attempting to talk about what is difficult to describe for some of us FA's, not only the breadth and depth of experience and relationship made possible by our fat attraction but also the big fat commitment to live and love our partners intimately.

Thanks to all of you, deeply, for your clarity - honesty - and integrity. This has been the best thread yet for me.


----------



## sean7

I'd also like to give a hear hear to all the veteran FAs on this board, and those that contributed to the thread. Many of you have said that you didn't have someone to share in your preference while growing up, a role model of some sort. I also was confused about my preference growing up. I thank you guys for sharing your experiences with us younger FAs. 

BGP, EDX, and FA man stan: the trimurti of golden age FAism.


----------



## Brenda

I really appreciate how upfront you are about your desires. That being said the scenario you find arousing, I find for the most part terrifying. Let me be clear and say it is not the fat it is the need for special accomodations for potential weight imposed limitations.

If I was fat and fit (able to do all the things I would like to physically and generally feel great) I would not concern myself with what I weigh at all. But I am not.

When I see a relatively young fat person in a scooter, I fear for my own mobilty. When I learn a fat friend has been diagnosed with Diabetes I wonder if I am next. When I see a fat friend who seemingly suddenly is huffing and puffing with the most basic of physical tasks I am filled with fear. I am not only afraid for myself, I am afraid for my fat friends and family.

While I can certainly appreciate your desires I am wondering how the reality of this sort of thing affects that. 

Brenda

""I dont know about anyone else on these boards, but this would probably count as dirty talk to me: When I was looking for a new place to live I decided a condo loft would be best, because stairs are hard for fat folk and the open layout of a condo means that I can set it up so that there is lots of room for fat bodies to move around without bumping into things. I put in a nice spacious washroom, with a huge shower stall with a bench and wall mounted bars in it, so no matter what showering is not a problem. I made sure none of the kitchen cupboards were too high, because getting up and down on a step stool is a no-no. I made sure to get a huge fridge and a separate freezer, as well as a big pantry, because I always want to be well stocked with food. I made sure to choose a building with two elevators, so that it is unlikely theyd both be out of service at the same time, because I dont ever want to have to climb seven flights of stairs. It would not matter if the speaker were male or female, fat or thin, gaining or notthat sort of conscious decision to make fat a central consideration in their life would be hot. ""


----------



## BubbleButtBabe

bigplaidpants said:


> How many of us hve seen or written posts ourselves where BBW's have had to remind FA's "I'm not just a fat body; I'm a person." FA's bear responsibility, IMO, for misplacing their fantasizing and inappropriate objectification.



That is part of what I am trying to understand..To see some of what is written you would think if you do not weigh 300+lbs,a true FA would not look at you..In other word you would not be attractive to a FA no matter your facial looks,your personality,your intelligence,all that would matter is the number on the scale..I would think men have evolved past that and realize that there is a very tender person below all that they fantasize about..





> Because of the power of sexism and men's ongoing privilege to objectify women in our culture, I share these sentiments with BBW's the best I can. But, unfortunately being an ally in the battle cry against callous and shallow objectificaiton does little to broaden our sense of the depth and richness of fat eroticism. One of the best things about Dim, is it actually provides a space for FFA's, BBW's, BHM to be included in this discussion. However, I also still see that FA's still need to prove themselves as more than just factory seconds or misdirected hornballs with an eye only to consuming, controlling, or owning the large or fat female figure. I don't blame any person here for that. I'm also not whining "victimization!" I'm just trying to make an observation. FA's, for being men who's form of erotics stand out as being different, are still subject to the scrutiny of being, well, men.



Yes and some men that want to push what ever bounds of decency they know..It is really hard for the good guys to get very far,because the asshole before them has already made the ladies wary and defensive..Even to the point that the BBW and FA may chat for days,weeks or even months and no mention of anything sexual comes up,then by accident something is said by the FA or something is taken out of context..Then bam he is as guilty as the asshole..




> I don't want to be misunderstood. No doubt....NO DOUBT....many men, including many FA's, reinforce these stereotypes in their demeanor and behavior in relation to woman of all sizes. I see it often on the boards. But, just perpetuating such stereotypes never get below the surface to appreciate FAism as some of us FA's live and experience it. For me, it goes deeper to appreciating more deeply the erotic altogether. I think eroticism in general, and fat eroticism in particular, goes well beyond body lust and pleasure-sex. In my sense of it, there is a myriad of intimate forces at work: both intense love and attraction for the person, a capacity for exciting depth and deviance, and even worship and adoration for our bodies and sensuality, which leads on a path of intimacy that only FAism makes possible for me.
> While my wife's size and weight are intimately tied to that, it certainly is not the only aspect that holds us and my fat eroticism together for me.



So if your wife decided to loose weight it wouldn't dampen your lust and eroticism for her? I know it might make it wane some,that is to be expected as aging would..Being together so long do you think there are other parts to your relationship that would fill the void?



> For me, Ed and Stan both do a great job of attempting to talk about what is difficult to describe for some of us FA's, not only the breadth and depth of experience and relationship made possible by our fat attraction but also the big fat commitment to live and love our partners intimately.
> 
> Thanks to all of you, deeply, for your clarity - honesty - and integrity. This has been the best thread yet for me.



Thank you as well..Like I said I am trying to play the devil's advocate and get more of how FAs think out there and from different FAs..Of course I figure I will get flamed a few times,I just ask that it be done in messages and not in this thread..Thanks.


----------



## Mokojumbie

Just wanted to say that this really is a great thread, and I agree with a lot of the posts here. Kudos!

I do admit that a significant other losing a lot of weight for non-health related issues is something that I think about. I'm not in a relationship at the moment, but in past ones, when my SO talked about going to the gym and losing weight, or saying, "I'm going on a diet. I think a size 14 would be good for me." I do support her, but a little bit of me wishes she wouldn't. I never tell her this of course, because she is the ultimate decision maker when it comes to all things her (naturally) and I know the thoughts are selfish ones.

However the thoughts are there. In fact, I would bet about four nickels that it happens a lot more in the thought processes of FAs (especially the supportive ones) than one might think.

PS. I 1000% agree with the statement that heath issues and concerns about them from both sides is the 800lb gorilla in the web room.


----------



## LillyBBBW

With all the stories I hear and the things I've observed since getting involved in fat acceptance it has become clear to me that things never go well for the fat woman. There is always a story of woe and ill fortune that befalls everyone at the end of the line or the fat heroine suddenly disappears without a trace with no preamble or explanation. This is something that I have struggled with for a long time because I genuinely love being fat, it's not a gimmick or a catch phrase. I've quibbled over my huge arms and my flat ass but in general I just don't feel fully dressed without being fat. For me it's as essential to me as my hair. Without it I'm bald and ugly. 

I thought coming here to Dimensions would be encouraging but bottom line is that it hasn't been. I've heard more warnings of, "One day YOU'LL end up just like me, then you'll be sorry," than I ever dreamed. "Diet. Diet. Lose weight. Lose weight," all over the place. It's like grandma is still here even though she died from alcohol poisoning years ago.

Nevertheless, with my turning 40 I decided to take a sobering look at myself and the fate that potentially awaits me and decided that as a 40th birthday present I would join a gym and seize control of my health. Like any other super model or hot body, mine comes at a price and with great responsibility attached. It's time I take up the gauntlet. So far it has been the best decision I've ever made, I've never felt better though I was never truly in bad health. I'm just thankful I've come up with the scratch to afford going. I've made it a priority in my life. 

But as I've said before, I've no intentions to lose weight. If I lost more than a few pounds in the long run I would be desperately disappointed. A few years ago I had a mysterious illness that caused me to lose weight for a time and I was in the throes of distress over it while my family cheered like rabid animals. It was horrible. Without having other FA's to talk to I think I would have had a nervous breakdown. But now you would not BELIEVE the mail I've received lately from FA's that read my blog. Good lord! Offline IM's from some of my dearest friends that say in angst, "So, have you lost 25 pounds yet?" People have gotten all worked up about the fear that I am trying to slim down. lol

I suppose like any FA I'm looking for that utopia where you can be fat and fit at the same time. Deep in my soul I *know* that place exists, I feel it in my spirit every day. But I find myself stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one side are the people who think I'm delusional and not doing enough and on the other side are people who fear I've fallen prey to the demonic pull to kill a part of my self to live. 

It's a lonely place trying to wrestle an 800 pound gorilla in this web room but I think I'm up to the challenge.


----------



## Tad

Brenda said:


> I really appreciate how upfront you are about your desires. That being said the scenario you find arousing, I find for the most part terrifying. Let me be clear and say it is not the fat it is the need for special accomodations for potential weight imposed limitations.
> 
> If I was fat and fit (able to do all the things I would like to physically and generally feel great) I would not concern myself with what I weigh at all. But I am not.
> 
> When I see a relatively young fat person in a scooter, I fear for my own mobilty. When I learn a fat friend has been diagnosed with Diabetes I wonder if I am next. When I see a fat friend who seemingly suddenly is huffing and puffing with the most basic of physical tasks I am filled with fear. I am not only afraid for myself, I am afraid for my fat friends and family.
> 
> While I can certainly appreciate your desires I am wondering how the reality of this sort of thing affects that.
> 
> Brenda
> 
> ""I dont know about anyone else on these boards, but this would probably count as dirty talk to me: When I was looking for a new place to live I decided a condo loft would be best, because stairs are hard for fat folk and the open layout of a condo means that I can set it up so that there is lots of room for fat bodies to move around without bumping into things. I put in a nice spacious washroom, with a huge shower stall with a bench and wall mounted bars in it, so no matter what showering is not a problem. I made sure none of the kitchen cupboards were too high, because getting up and down on a step stool is a no-no. I made sure to get a huge fridge and a separate freezer, as well as a big pantry, because I always want to be well stocked with food. I made sure to choose a building with two elevators, so that it is unlikely theyd both be out of service at the same time, because I dont ever want to have to climb seven flights of stairs. It would not matter if the speaker were male or female, fat or thin, gaining or notthat sort of conscious decision to make fat a central consideration in their life would be hot. ""




I did that paragraph badly. What I was trying to convey was not a case of needing to make allowances for fat, but choosing to make allowances for fat, as part of having fat a high priority in your thoughts. If the speaker was a size 12 and never in her life expecting to be bigger than a size 16 and very fit, and frankly actually did climb the seven flights of stairs most days, it would not make it any less hot. In fact, in some ways it would make it more hot because it would be totally clear that none of that was from necessity, all of it was from desire. It is the desire or interest or indulging the desire or something like that which is the hottest part to me.

Or to put it another way, for me it is mostly about the mental side of fat. Actually being fat is lovely and all, but the liking of fat is far more erotic. For me. Other FA can and will differ.

-ed


----------



## Jellybean

First - I tried to post something like this twice before yesterday and it never seemed to appear, so I apologize if this did pop up somewhere and some of it is a repeat. I'm new here and not so sure what I'm doing tech-wise!

I got what you were saying in your original "fan of fat" post, Ed. I'm a BBW who could climb 7 flights of stairs, but the idea of discusssing such choices to accomodate becoming a much larger person and having a partner who would be thrilled about it, is very appealing to me. I think BigPlaid has written before on that line between fantasy and reality - I don't want to become unhealthy and immobile but being a fan of fat is a very erotic fantasy to share with another person.

I've only had the chance to do it over the 'net and it has been thrilling and intense and freeing - it's quite an experience to share something that is counter-cultural and taboo yet deeply erotic with someone on the same page. However, I've also had to come to terms with the fact that in "real life", it's hard enough to find a personality you click with in a person you're physically attracted to, let alone adding to that sharing a very particular fantasy. So while I haven't given up hope in getting the whole package, I realize relationships are trade-offs and I'm not willing to prioritize the shared fantasy life over other things. I guess I'm just greedy. 

I will also say that in the past there have been times when if a man I was intimate with even acknowledged he noticed I was fat (ha! of course he noticed!) I would have heard it as a painful criticism since I feel as if I spent most of my life hoping people would see beyond my size. Thankfully I think I can discern the difference between a remark made in appreciation and one made in criticism but I think men worth their salt, as the FAs who posted here surely are, know how complicated body image issues are for women. It can be risky for sensitive guys to express their feelings about a BBW's shape.

Finally, I think men aren't socialized to share their emotions so most of these FAs are stuck in isolation trying to puzzle out these feelings whereas I at least have had many other women to process issues of body image, etc. Isolation is a hard place to be. I guess it's a good thing we have this community.


----------



## chunkeymonkey

LillyBBBW said:


> With all the stories I hear and the things I've observed since getting involved in fat acceptance it has become clear to me that things never go well for the fat woman. There is always a story of woe and ill fortune that befalls everyone at the end of the line or the fat heroine suddenly disappears without a trace with no preamble or explanation. This is something that I have struggled with for a long time because I genuinely love being fat, it's not a gimmick or a catch phrase. I've quibbled over my huge arms and my flat ass but in general I just don't feel fully dressed without being fat. For me it's as essential to me as my hair. Without it I'm bald and ugly.
> 
> I thought coming here to Dimensions would be encouraging but bottom line is that it hasn't been. I've heard more warnings of, "One day YOU'LL end up just like me, then you'll be sorry," than I ever dreamed. "Diet. Diet. Lose weight. Lose weight," all over the place. It's like grandma is still here even though she died from alcohol poisoning years ago.
> 
> Nevertheless, with my turning 40 I decided to take a sobering look at myself and the fate that potentially awaits me and decided that as a 40th birthday present I would join a gym and seize control of my health. Like any other super model or hot body, mine comes at a price and with great responsibility attached. It's time I take up the gauntlet. So far it has been the best decision I've ever made, I've never felt better though I was never truly in bad health. I'm just thankful I've come up with the scratch to afford going. I've made it a priority in my life.
> 
> But as I've said before, I've no intentions to lose weight. If I lost more than a few pounds in the long run I would be desperately disappointed. A few years ago I had a mysterious illness that caused me to lose weight for a time and I was in the throes of distress over it while my family cheered like rabid animals. It was horrible. Without having other FA's to talk to I think I would have had a nervous breakdown. But now you would not BELIEVE the mail I've received lately from FA's that read my blog. Good lord! Offline IM's from some of my dearest friends that say in angst, "So, have you lost 25 pounds yet?" People have gotten all worked up about the fear that I am trying to slim down. lol
> 
> I suppose like any FA I'm looking for that utopia where you can be fat and fit at the same time. Deep in my soul I *know* that place exists, I feel it in my spirit every day. But I find myself stuck between a rock and a hard place. On one side are the people who think I'm delusional and not doing enough and on the other side are people who fear I've fallen prey to the demonic pull to kill a part of my self to live.
> 
> It's a lonely place trying to wrestle an 800 pound gorilla in this web room but I think I'm up to the challenge.



I struggled the first time I went to a heavenly bodies dance.I was so excited to go got all dolled up and walked through the doors with my husband on my arms.I remember meeting so many wonderful women and I was talking to this guy who kept making saying how skinny I was and that was the oddest thing for me to hear.I had always grown up being told "you have such a beautiful face I am sure if you just lost a little weight you would look better."I went to a few more dances and realized I am a limbo weight.I am too big for people looking for an average girl under a size 14 and I am too small for a lot of the men who want a bbw at a size 24 or up.Now I am just saying this from my own personal experience.I grew very insecure as to which way I should be.When I was younger I thought I wanted to go against the grain and show people I could be FAT and be healthy.Well that worked well until I wanted to have children and then at that point I had what I thought I never would health issues.
This brings me back to the same Fear of the risks of being fat.On on hand I want to be proud of being fat and standing up for my rights.Then there is the side that I now face with my children.I have a 7 year old son who says" mom I dont want you to die from being fat."Its hard to explain to a child that that is my preference because what if he wants to be like me and follow in my foot steps.
Maybe this is in my head but I remember the thread where the FA's were Hit hard with anger for their preference in size.Some had preferences of a fatter woman but looked at the realistic side and said I want bigger but I dont want to have to deal with mobility issues or health issues. I see myself thinking in my head I want to be one way but I dont know if I can deal with the issues either way.
I think there are probably equal frustrations on both sides of a BBW and FA or FOF.I think for me I have always been insecure and have only really heard one side of how a FA is through my husband.Its is especially nice to see everyone put a heart felt side to this thread it helps with my understanding instead of letting my insecurities get the best of me.
Thanks to all of you ....


----------



## collegeguy2514

CurvyEm said:


> 3.) Just because a man is an FA don't automatically assume that he will find you attractive. Not all 'normal' men fancy all 'normal' sized girls. So don't accuse them of not being a 'real' FA if they don't fancy you. (Yes, I've seen this happen)



i agree 1000%!!


----------



## collegeguy2514

something else i'd like to chime in on: the issue of a woman losing weight and her man not being as interested. 

what about regular couples? if the woman is thin, and gains 20 lbs or so, most guys would be turned off by this. it goes the same as if the guy is in shape, but over the course of the relationship develops a gut. the woman would be turned off. 

this is how it works for (most) FA's. we like big women, they are things of beauty. if they arent as big, we arent as attracted, to a certain degree. 

every guy is different. im attracted to all sorts of women. from the 400 lb girl who's been big all her life, to the 120 lb college freshman girl who gains 20 lbs when she stops playing softball. it just depends on the girl.


----------



## loggamatt

wow... this will teach me to spark off such debate and then not have time to contribute for a couple of days... so many wonderful posts since I've last been here!

It would take me all night to comment specifically on all the interesting things that have been said, so just a few general comments...

1) Thank you to all who have thanked me for sparking this thread  Thank you in particular to fa_man_stan for such a moving response; bigplaidpants for brilliantly elucidating some of what I was trying to say; and SamanthaNY for her candour and passion in providing a persuasive counterpoint to my argument.

2) Even I find Stan's post remarkably illuminating in describing the FA mindset, and I am a FA so you would have thought that it should have come as no surprise to me!  But I guess it often takes adversity to make one truly self-aware, and Stan's experiences seem to bear this out.

Yes, I concur wholeheartedly, being a FA is not just a physical preference, but a lifestyle choice. Because physically attracted to BBW is not something I believe you have a choice in, but openly embracing that and becoming a 'FA' is something that you do have to consciously decide to do. It becomes part of who you are, part of how you relate to people, part of how you live your life. BBW have to deal with ignorance, social pressure and exclusion as part of living in this flawed society, and FAs have to deal with a similar 'stigma'. This cannot fail to make a BBW and FA in a relationship feel, to some extent, like they're a team, and it's them against the world. The FA has chosen to be an FA, and the BBW has often chosen to embrace her size, and accept it as part of who she is. If one partner breaks this pact, how can that fail to be devastating for the other? The FA is unlikely to decide not to be a FA as his decision to be a FA was based on a physical preference that he cannot control, so it would be rare for the FA to decide that he's no longer an FA and break that pact. But, it is conceivable that a BBW can break the pact by coming to a realisation, for whatever reason, that she is not happy with herself after all and wants to lose weight. This can feel like betrayal to the FA, even if he accepts it as unintentional betrayal, and can be very hard to deal with.

It must be so difficult for Stan to cope with, and I think that he is finding ways to cope is admirable. Thanks again for sharing this with us.

3) Yes, so many threads on this board, and so much agonizing in the minds of FAs comes down to the health issue. So here's my take on it...

I guess I'm lucky in that I don't really believe that it's more unhealthy to be big and to stay big than it is to try to lose weight. Perhaps I've brainwashed myself into believing that because it makes it more morally acceptable for me to be an FA if I hold that belief, I wouldn't deny that possibility, but it would take a lot to change my mind on that.

I believe it's an NAAFA statistic that only 2% of diets work long-term, and I've certainly heard that fact repeated from other sources including a British government minister from the department of health. That any weight loss nearly always leads to the weight being regained, and that we all know that yo-yo dieting is one of the least healthy things you can do to your body, leads me to believe that people's health is nearly always better served by letting their body weight change naturally.

Even in a case where a SSBBW has clearly limited mobility because of her size, is it better for her to reduce her weight significantly to increase her mobility for, say, a year if there is a 98% chance that before long that mobility will be reduced yet further when she has gained the weight back, plus more, and lost muscle mass due to dieting that helps burn calories?

You hear so many stories of big people saying "I lost 100lbs and I feel great!" It's just a shame that you don't hear from them another year down the line when they're saying "... but then I gained back 150lbs and I feel worse now." If there were a magic pill that would cause weight loss with no side effects and no chance of regaining the weight, I would not be able to defend my position, of course. But that pill does not exist.

Weight loss surgery certainly isn't that 'pill' and brings a whole other set of health problems into play.

So, frankly, when BBW/SSBBW say to me "but I'm doing this for my health... can't you see that's a positive thing?" I can quite honestly say with no qualms at all, "no, I don't."

I can imagine a BBW replying to this "but it's my body, don't you think I know my own health better than you do?" I can understand that, and as I have said before, the bottom line is that I strongly believe it is a person's right to do whatever they like with their own body. But that doesn't necessarily mean that that the BBW knows best. The fact that it is her own body and that she has a set of hopes and aspirations (I wish I could shop at that store, I wish I could fit on that ride, I wish my family couldn't bug me about my weight anymore... etc.) means that her desire to diet may be driven more by hope than by a rational assessment of that diet's chances of success.

So is it a BBW's moral right to do what she wants to her own body? Yes. Is she automatically right in what she chooses to do simply because it is her own body? No.


----------



## BubbleButtBabe

loggamatt said:


> wow... this will teach me to spark off such debate and then not have time to contribute for a couple of days... so many wonderful posts since I've last been here!
> 
> It would take me all night to comment specifically on all the interesting things that have been said, so just a few general comments...
> 
> 1) Thank you to all who have thanked me for sparking this thread  Thank you in particular to fa_man_stan for such a moving response; bigplaidpants for brilliantly elucidating some of what I was trying to say; and SamanthaNY for her candour and passion in providing a persuasive counterpoint to my argument.
> 
> 2) Even I find Stan's post remarkably illuminating in describing the FA mindset, and I am a FA so you would have thought that it should have come as no surprise to me!  But I guess it often takes adversity to make one truly self-aware, and Stan's experiences seem to bear this out.
> 
> Yes, I concur wholeheartedly, being a FA is not just a physical preference, but a lifestyle choice. Because physically attracted to BBW is not something I believe you have a choice in, but openly embracing that and becoming a 'FA' is something that you do have to consciously decide to do. It becomes part of who you are, part of how you relate to people, part of how you live your life. BBW have to deal with ignorance, social pressure and exclusion as part of living in this flawed society, and FAs have to deal with a similar 'stigma'. This cannot fail to make a BBW and FA in a relationship feel, to some extent, like they're a team, and it's them against the world. The FA has chosen to be an FA, and the BBW has often chosen to embrace her size, and accept it as part of who she is. If one partner breaks this pact, how can that fail to be devastating for the other? The FA is unlikely to decide not to be a FA as his decision to be a FA was based on a physical preference that he cannot control, so it would be rare for the FA to decide that he's no longer an FA and break that pact. But, it is conceivable that a BBW can break the pact by coming to a realisation, for whatever reason, that she is not happy with herself after all and wants to lose weight. This can feel like betrayal to the FA, even if he accepts it as unintentional betrayal, and can be very hard to deal with.
> 
> It must be so difficult for Stan to cope with, and I think that he is finding ways to cope is admirable. Thanks again for sharing this with us.
> 
> 3) Yes, so many threads on this board, and so much agonizing in the minds of FAs comes down to the health issue. So here's my take on it...
> 
> I guess I'm lucky in that I don't really believe that it's more unhealthy to be big and to stay big than it is to try to lose weight. Perhaps I've brainwashed myself into believing that because it makes it more morally acceptable for me to be an FA if I hold that belief, I wouldn't deny that possibility, but it would take a lot to change my mind on that.
> 
> I believe it's an NAAFA statistic that only 2% of diets work long-term, and I've certainly heard that fact repeated from other sources including a British government minister from the department of health. That any weight loss nearly always leads to the weight being regained, and that we all know that yo-yo dieting is one of the least healthy things you can do to your body, leads me to believe that people's health is nearly always better served by letting their body weight change naturally.
> 
> Even in a case where a SSBBW has clearly limited mobility because of her size, is it better for her to reduce her weight significantly to increase her mobility for, say, a year if there is a 98% chance that before long that mobility will be reduced yet further when she has gained the weight back, plus more, and lost muscle mass due to dieting that helps burn calories?
> 
> You hear so many stories of big people saying "I lost 100lbs and I feel great!" It's just a shame that you don't hear from them another year down the line when they're saying "... but then I gained back 150lbs and I feel worse now." If there were a magic pill that would cause weight loss with no side effects and no chance of regaining the weight, I would not be able to defend my position, of course. But that pill does not exist.
> 
> Weight loss surgery certainly isn't that 'pill' and brings a whole other set of health problems into play.
> 
> So, frankly, when BBW/SSBBW say to me "but I'm doing this for my health... can't you see that's a positive thing?" I can quite honestly say with no qualms at all, "no, I don't."
> 
> I can imagine a BBW replying to this "but it's my body, don't you think I know my own health better than you do?" I can understand that, and as I have said before, the bottom line is that I strongly believe it is a person's right to do whatever they like with their own body. But that doesn't necessarily mean that that the BBW knows best. The fact that it is her own body and that she has a set of hopes and aspirations (I wish I could shop at that store, I wish I could fit on that ride, I wish my family couldn't bug me about my weight anymore... etc.) means that her desire to diet may be driven more by hope than by a rational assessment of that diet's chances of success.
> 
> So is it a BBW's moral right to do what she wants to her own body? Yes. Is she automatically right in what she chooses to do simply because it is her own body? No.



Excellent post and insightful as well..I personally do not think anyone should "diet",eat healthy yes,but to "diet" is to gain weight..


----------



## LillyBBBW

I have a younger sister who is a size 16-18. She was feeling really down on herself about her weight and always commented about how she wished she had my self esteem and courage. I decided to take her to a Heavenly Bodies dance thinking this might lift her spirits. The women there were awful to her, some of them grumbling within earshot of her saying, "What is she doing here?" She was crushed, and never returned. 

She is so down on herself sometimes I'm physically sick over it. I know a lot of people in that midsize range who suffer the same hell of being in that body size of the damned and with all we boast about size acceptance and self esteem I can't even help them or point them in a direction where they won't face some form of rage and hostility. It's one of those things you have to dig deep in your soul to stand strong against on your own I'm afraid and I admire you for taking a strong stand to do that for yourself in some way.

A strange observation: I've always been super sized but kinda sorta on the low end of it. I got some attention here and there but was never really a hit at Heavenly Bodies parties no matter how I dressed. I haven't been in ages, just too busy I guess and I'm in a different place now. New Years Eve however I went after a long hiatus and was at my heaviest at 401 pounds. I was outrageously popular, I mean, like NEVER before. I'm not kidding, I literally had to slip away unnoticed towards the end of the night. It was surreal. 

Who's to blame for all of this? No one. You can't hold it against people for liking what they like or being what they are. But I know for a fact that there are lot of mid sized bbw lovers out there but it appears to me that they suffer the same scorn. They like 'em too fat for the skinny crowd but not big enough to keep from getting booed out of this forum like poseurs who don't belong. 

I hear you chunky, loud and clear. 





chunkeymonkey said:


> I struggled the first time I went to a heavenly bodies dance.I was so excited to go got all dolled up and walked through the doors with my husband on my arms.I remember meeting so many wonderful women and I was talking to this guy who kept making saying how skinny I was and that was the oddest thing for me to hear.I had always grown up being told "you have such a beautiful face I am sure if you just lost a little weight you would look better."I went to a few more dances and realized I am a limbo weight.I am too big for people looking for an average girl under a size 14 and I am too small for a lot of the men who want a bbw at a size 24 or up.Now I am just saying this from my own personal experience.I grew very insecure as to which way I should be.When I was younger I thought I wanted to go against the grain and show people I could be FAT and be healthy.Well that worked well until I wanted to have children and then at that point I had what I thought I never would health issues.
> This brings me back to the same Fear of the risks of being fat.On on hand I want to be proud of being fat and standing up for my rights.Then there is the side that I now face with my children.I have a 7 year old son who says" mom I dont want you to die from being fat."Its hard to explain to a child that that is my preference because what if he wants to be like me and follow in my foot steps.
> Maybe this is in my head but I remember the thread where the FA's were Hit hard with anger for their preference in size.Some had preferences of a fatter woman but looked at the realistic side and said I want bigger but I dont want to have to deal with mobility issues or health issues. I see myself thinking in my head I want to be one way but I dont know if I can deal with the issues either way.
> I think there are probably equal frustrations on both sides of a BBW and FA or FOF.I think for me I have always been insecure and have only really heard one side of how a FA is through my husband.Its is especially nice to see everyone put a heart felt side to this thread it helps with my understanding instead of letting my insecurities get the best of me.
> Thanks to all of you ....


----------



## Brenda

""I guess I'm lucky in that I don't really believe that it's more unhealthy to be big and to stay big than it is to try to lose weight. Perhaps I've brainwashed myself into believing that because it makes it more morally acceptable for me to be an FA if I hold that belief, I wouldn't deny that possibility, but it would take a lot to change my mind on that"


I used to believe what NAAFA and other like minded groups preached that all the scientific studies were way off base about the risks of being obese. This made great sense in my 20's, because I felt fine and so did the fat friends I surrounded myself with. Slowly but surely nearly all of us developed diabetes, extreme weight gains (without being in a yo you diet cycle) mobility problems, asthma etc This group suffered far more health problems than the thin friends I have. 

If you go to the grocery store you will see that 90% of the people using the scooters are fat. I know no thin people with diabetes personally but know dozens of fat folks who are. On the other hand I know a few fat and fit people but they are mostly chubby IMO and exercise almost constantly. 

While I certainly believe it is one's own business what they do with there bodies it is hard to deny that being large carries with it very real health risks. 

So while I agree dieting does not bring many to the road of wellness at some point many fat people become desperate to feel better. When you realize not dieting is not working, dieting becomes an appealing solution.


----------



## EtobicokeFA

The problem has always been the fact that to say you prefer fat women is deem shallow and to some people considered objectifying women. I know this because this is the second most common response I get when people find out I am a FA. 

Since fat is a physical attribute, and as with any preference towards any physical attribute, it will always be questioned as shallow lust and objectifying women. 

My point is that of course the packaging is not more important than what is inside. That is a not in question. The question is the importance of the packaging. How much importance can we but on the packaging? 

We all know that the passage of time change the body. How do we deal with that? Political correctness would have it that we disregard the attraction to outward appearance altogether. Is that realistic? 

This is a very tricky topic!


----------



## EtobicokeFA

LillyBBBW said:


> I have a younger sister who is a size 16-18. She was feeling really down on herself about her weight and always commented about how she wished she had my self esteem and courage. I decided to take her to a Heavenly Bodies dance thinking this might lift her spirits. The women there were awful to her, some of them grumbling within earshot of her saying, "What is she doing here?" She was crushed, and never returned.
> 
> She is so down on herself sometimes I'm physically sick over it. I know a lot of people in that midsize range who suffer the same hell of being in that body size of the damned and with all we boast about size acceptance and self esteem I can't even help them or point them in a direction where they won't face some form of rage and hostility. It's one of those things you have to dig deep in your soul to stand strong against on your own I'm afraid and I admire you for taking a strong stand to do that for yourself in some way.
> 
> A strange observation: I've always been super sized but kinda sorta on the low end of it. I got some attention here and there but was never really a hit at Heavenly Bodies parties no matter how I dressed. I haven't been in ages, just too busy I guess and I'm in a different place now. New Years Eve however I went after a long hiatus and was at my heaviest at 401 pounds. I was outrageously popular, I mean, like NEVER before. I'm not kidding, I literally had to slip away unnoticed towards the end of the night. It was surreal.
> 
> Who's to blame for all of this? No one. You can't hold it against people for liking what they like or being what they are. But I know for a fact that there are lot of mid sized bbw lovers out there but it appears to me that they suffer the same scorn. They like 'em too fat for the skinny crowd but not big enough to keep from getting booed out of this forum like poseurs who don't belong.
> 
> I hear you chunky, loud and clear.



I am sorry, what happen to sister, it happened to my wife as well! 

It sad that this happens in a community that is trying to promote self esteem.


----------



## Jon Blaze

Health is a concern in the relationships that I have. If my partner decided at whatever frame to lose whatever amount, I wouldn't object to it. At the most I would voice my opinion. If I agreed, then I might even help.

I have a problem with people that lose weight solely for assimilation and social reasons. I don't blame them for that (since this world is yet to embrace our message), but every time I see a perfectly healthy woman that is large, but loses weight so they can (Insert Social Reason here), I feel that even though the Fat Admiration/Size Acceptance movement is reaching unfathomable strength, it's like a lost cause. I just keep thinking to myself what would happen to this person if they found the right crowd/partner. I wouldn't object to that either, but my chances of helping someone in that situation are pretty slim. I'd try my best to not speak of it around them if voicing my opinion didn't help or caused tension.

On a countering note, I do find it a bit annoying that these people (mostly women) are being branded for losing weight, but are praised when they gain. To me that just doesn't seem fair. Women of any degree above the social norm have the possibility of being considered elite in the beauty department in my book. I'm willing to date thin women too... I don't seek them too often at all, however.

I know many FAs have ranges, but why brand someone you admire (Whether it's a model or your partner) when they fall the slightest bit out of your range? I know you don't like it, but why slander them?

Sorry... I've had a long morning. I'm going to nap now. When I wake up, I'm going to read through this entire thread, and see if I'm able to jump in. This was really on my mind, and I thought this would be a good thread to let it out.


----------



## EtobicokeFA

Brenda said:


> ""I guess I'm lucky in that I don't really believe that it's more unhealthy to be big and to stay big than it is to try to lose weight. Perhaps I've brainwashed myself into believing that because it makes it more morally acceptable for me to be an FA if I hold that belief, I wouldn't deny that possibility, but it would take a lot to change my mind on that"
> 
> 
> I used to believe what NAAFA and other like minded groups preached that all the scientific studies were way off base about the risks of being obese. This made great sense in my 20's, because I felt fine and so did the fat friends I surrounded myself with. Slowly but surely nearly all of us developed diabetes, extreme weight gains (without being in a yo you diet cycle) mobility problems, asthma etc This group suffered far more health problems than the thin friends I have.
> 
> If you go to the grocery store you will see that 90% of the people using the scooters are fat. I know no thin people with diabetes personally but know dozens of fat folks who are. On the other hand I know a few fat and fit people but they are mostly chubby IMO and exercise almost constantly.
> 
> While I certainly believe it is one's own business what they do with there bodies it is hard to deny that being large carries with it very real health risks.
> 
> So while I agree dieting does not bring many to the road of wellness at some point many fat people become desperate to feel better. When you realize not dieting is not working, dieting becomes an appealing solution.



First let me say that I am sorry to hear about you and friends. I don't know about the well enough to give a good response, so bear with me. 

Most of the people here are not denying that carrying a large amount of weight has it's risks! I don't think I believe you can be still be healthy if you are to the point of losing your mobility. Of course, I welcome anyone who knows more about it than I do!

Yes, there are some people who just accept the risk, but alot of people here are trying to reduce the risks. But, for some going down to a more healthy weight is not as simple as it is for someone else.

However, I find that the people who eat well and get enough exercise can be healthy.


----------



## LillyBBBW

My entire family has diabetes, high cholesterol, heart problems and hypertension including my younger sister - they're all thin. I have none of those issues and I'm the fattest. I have two brothers in their 50's with no health issues at all. Just two out of six. The only difference between them and the others is that one has a weight room in the basement of his house. He uses it regularly, has taught by example to his children that fitness is a personal responsibility. The other is a cyclist who rides his bike in cycle groups and races, riding his bike from state to state. They eat more than I do, often taking several plates of food home wrapped in tin foil at the end of every family get together, another maddenling trait passed on to their food mongering kids. They clean my parents out at every function. They and I have miraculously beaten the odds, me merely by sheer idiot's luck. 

My weight lifting brother's weight qualifies him as being obese even though he is clearly not. He is 6'3 and his weight stems from mostly muscle, a swelled head and a bloated ego. I've seen lots of sick fat people but I've also seen lots of sick thin people and no proof that being trim in and of itself will cure anybody of anything. If weight loss is the all encompassing cure for everything under the sun then why don't they administer emergency lypo? Surely it would save lives and is less traumatic than wls. I'm hoping these observations will pay off for me in stressing more on exercise and less on cutting off my food supply. But so far the stats on dieting are not as impressive as the stats on exercise.




Brenda said:


> ""I guess I'm lucky in that I don't really believe that it's more unhealthy to be big and to stay big than it is to try to lose weight. Perhaps I've brainwashed myself into believing that because it makes it more morally acceptable for me to be an FA if I hold that belief, I wouldn't deny that possibility, but it would take a lot to change my mind on that"
> 
> 
> I used to believe what NAAFA and other like minded groups preached that all the scientific studies were way off base about the risks of being obese. This made great sense in my 20's, because I felt fine and so did the fat friends I surrounded myself with. Slowly but surely nearly all of us developed diabetes, extreme weight gains (without being in a yo you diet cycle) mobility problems, asthma etc This group suffered far more health problems than the thin friends I have.
> 
> If you go to the grocery store you will see that 90% of the people using the scooters are fat. I know no thin people with diabetes personally but know dozens of fat folks who are. On the other hand I know a few fat and fit people but they are mostly chubby IMO and exercise almost constantly.
> 
> While I certainly believe it is one's own business what they do with there bodies it is hard to deny that being large carries with it very real health risks.
> 
> So while I agree dieting does not bring many to the road of wellness at some point many fat people become desperate to feel better. When you realize not dieting is not working, dieting becomes an appealing solution.


----------



## Brenda

I am not suggesting dieting will fix anything. What I am saying is when something is broken must people are going to at least try to fix it with whatever tools they have. Naturally regardless of weight there are many health ailments humans are at risk for but there are certain ones that seem to affect the fat more. 

I do not know what the answer is or even that there is one. I do know that for me personally I am not going to just accept an early death that my fat, diabetic family members have faced. I am going to try to figure out a way to be healthy and if that means losing weight than that is what I will do. If I can in fact be healthy at my current weight I am more than happy to stay as I am.

Kudos to you for launching an exercise program and following your own path to increased health.

Brenda


----------



## Durin

I think most FA's agree that they don't feel they have the right to tell their wives or SO what to do with their bodies. 

That doesn't help us with our conflicted feelings when my wife would diet or when she decided to have WLS. I was completely worried that this woman I had married would turn into someone else I would not know.

Many FA's myself included go through life seeing things at a 45' angle compared to everyone else. We finally mature enough to accept our preference or perversion or whatever we want to call it.

(I am not a pervert, I am a sane man in a perverted world.)

Then we find someone that fits our image of who we are attracted too and we build a relationship with that person. So when that person decides to opt out of this special thing we have, I think we feel a sense of rational or irrational betrayal. A sense that the bottom has dropped out of the world.

You get over it. 

But you see we FA's don't have a right to your body being a certain way, we just have these feelings, lusts and desires. And we usually just carry them around in our head, and don't normally let them out to roam.


----------



## stan_der_man

BubbleButtBabe said:


> So instead of realizing the surgery could be a way of adding more years to her life,which would be spent with you,you internalized it as a betrayal..You let some thing she did for herself and her body affect you to much..I realize you fell for your wife because of her size but didn't her spirit keep you with her?



I definitely won't flame you, I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this issue and I respect your opinions even if I don't agree with them. I also don't mean any disrespect to people who've had WLS and by no means do I claim to be an expert... Considering your statement BBB, I would be interested to see some hard data that states that WLS patients do in fact live longer or even better quality lives. I don't claim to be that knowledgeable about it, but I have yet to see any (unbiased) information that definitively states that. I am always happy to be proven wrong, I'd rather learn something new than believe something that is false. If you know of such information, by all means, please post it and we can debate it in the WLS Board. 



BubbleButtBabe said:


> I get the part of you admiring her figure, but why should it dash your ideals and philosophies of admiring larger women? Can you still not admire them? Have you set in your mind that the one woman you love, has changed her body so much the rest of the larger women are no longer attractive? Doesn't hurt to look,just can't touch! I understand change is hard to get use to and even harder to deal with at first..It can be done tho..You just have to dig a bit deeper..



You may have misunderstood my previous post. I didn't say that my ideals and philosophies for admiring larger women have been dashed or changed as a whole; for example, looking at other large women and appreciating their beauty (the limited amount that a married man is allowed...). Believe me, I still appreciate the beauty of fat women. I was explaining how a FA could loose connection with someone who lost weight, and in my case how that effected my ideals that I shared with my wife. I can't believe that I've "aired my dirty laundry" with people that I really don't know on these boards... I have been open with my wife about my displeasure with her WLS (or at least she hits a wall every time she goes into territory that offend my NAAFA sensibilities.) I suppose "airing my clean linens to dry" is OK; I actually feel comfortable with what I've said...



LillyBBBW said:


> I have a younger sister who is a size 16-18. She was feeling really down on herself about her weight and always commented about how she wished she had my self esteem and courage. I decided to take her to a Heavenly Bodies dance thinking this might lift her spirits. The women there were awful to her, some of them grumbling within earshot of her saying, "What is she doing here?" She was crushed, and never returned.
> 
> She is so down on herself sometimes I'm physically sick over it. I know a lot of people in that midsize range who suffer the same hell of being in that body size of the damned and with all we boast about size acceptance and self esteem I can't even help them or point them in a direction where they won't face some form of rage and hostility. It's one of those things you have to dig deep in your soul to stand strong against on your own I'm afraid and I admire you for taking a strong stand to do that for yourself in some way.
> 
> A strange observation: I've always been super sized but kinda sorta on the low end of it. I got some attention here and there but was never really a hit at Heavenly Bodies parties no matter how I dressed. I haven't been in ages, just too busy I guess and I'm in a different place now. New Years Eve however I went after a long hiatus and was at my heaviest at 401 pounds. I was outrageously popular, I mean, like NEVER before. I'm not kidding, I literally had to slip away unnoticed towards the end of the night. It was surreal.
> 
> Who's to blame for all of this? No one. You can't hold it against people for liking what they like or being what they are. But I know for a fact that there are lot of mid sized bbw lovers out there but it appears to me that they suffer the same scorn. They like 'em too fat for the skinny crowd but not big enough to keep from getting booed out of this forum like poseurs who don't belong....



I completely agree with you Lilly and Chunkymonkey! That's another important point here. We (large size community and FAs) should also be accepting of others as we wish others to be accepting of us... Lilly, your younger sister should be accepted or at least respected without a physique critique, by the larger sized gals (or whoever...). (Wow that last sentence really rhymed...) There is a lot of bad behavior out there in the size acceptance community (actually out in humanity as a whole...). Maybe I'm being naive that this will ever change, but at least we can keep having discussions like this and hopefully some people will see that what they are doing is just plain rude. Not anything to do with size acceptance issues, but just plain being rude. As for exercising and being healthy, that is also every person's right to feel the best that they can and be happy. That is just common sense, and in my opinion any respectable FA should see that. One of the things I find attractive about a women is her being vibrant and happy.

Stan


----------



## Tad

LillyBBBW said:


> I have none of those issues and I'm the fattest. I have two brothers in their 50's with no health issues at all. Just two out of six. The only difference between them and the others is that one has a weight room in the basement of his house. ...... The other is a cyclist ........ They and I have miraculously beaten the odds, me merely by sheer idiot's luck.



I just want to point out that even before joining the gym, you've been on a weight training gig pretty much your entire life, which has just gotten more intense in recent years. You sound like a pretty on the go person, so I get the impression that your nearly 400 pounds have walked a fair stretch, climbed some stairs, been down on the floor finding stuff under the couch, been up on the dance floor, and so on. If the key in your family is exercise you may have been getting a fair bit of it already--but going to the gym and adding a more formal component is no doubt a good idea!

Regards;

-Ed


----------



## Tad

....don't forget that some things are just genetic. My mother is slim, has jogged or walked every morning for thirty years, has gardened and done house work her whole life (and grew up on a farm doing more physically intense chores) eats reasonably well, and generally does everything you should. Her cholesterol is lousy and her blood pressure is high despite all sorts of meds.

My father is very active now that he is retired, but back when he was working an office job he drove to and from work each day, maybe took a couple flights of stairs, maybe cut the grass on weekends, but really was not very active. When he wasn't eating my mom's cooking it was McDonald's and KFC, and he had ham sandwiches for lunch so often we should have bought shares in pig farms. His cholesterol, blood pressure, and so on are all, and have always been, truly outstanding.

Of course, my mom's parents both died in their early 80s of circulatory type stuff (one stroke, one heart attack), while my dad's father died of alzeihmer's while in otherwise great health, and his mother lived until close to 100 until dying of essentially old age.

So sometimes really the first step is choosing the right parents, or at least the right genes from your parents.

There is also some evidence (there was a thread on this once, but it may have been on the old boards) that 'syndrome X' or 'metabolic syndrome' is all evidence of the same cause. This syndrome typically exhibits obesity with high amounts of abdominal fat, insulin resistance leading to type II diabetes (the cells creating the insulin essentially wear out early), and low HDL (aka healthy) cholesterol. One cause may be poor maternal nutrition during pregnancy, but there may also be others. So yes in these case obesity correlates with cholesterol and diabetes problems, and they may reinforce each other, but the underlying cause may be none of those issues directly.

And a final note, the infamous nurses study, the huge decades long tracking of nurses health which has led to many of the health to obesity correlations, showed that in most cases a 10% weight loss seemed to cancel almost all of the ill health affects. That may not be true in every individual case, but it suggests that in general it is not absolute fatness that is the issue, but fatness relative to what is 'normal' for you, so that if you improve your lifestyle enough to lose 10% of weight, you've probably done what you need to.

Regards;

-Ed


----------



## magnoliagrows

chunkeymonkey said:


> "I went to a few more dances and realized I am a limbo weight.I am too big for people looking for an average girl under a size 14 and I am too small for a lot of the men who want a bbw at a size 24 or up....



"You must spread some reputation around before giving it to chunkeymonkey again..."

Just wanted to say cheers to the limbo girls.


----------



## LillyBBBW

edx said:


> I just want to point out that even before joining the gym, you've been on a weight training gig pretty much your entire life, which has just gotten more intense in recent years. You sound like a pretty on the go person, so I get the impression that your nearly 400 pounds have walked a fair stretch, climbed some stairs, been down on the floor finding stuff under the couch, been up on the dance floor, and so on. If the key in your family is exercise you may have been getting a fair bit of it already--but going to the gym and adding a more formal component is no doubt a good idea!
> 
> Regards;
> 
> -Ed



I may have to take some of what I said previously back. I was chatting with my sister who I just had to leave work and pick up from the hospital. She is 4 1/2 months pregnant and has been placed on total bed rest so I had to go in and pick her up. As we were driving I ran my theory of our family health history and how exercise is probably the key. She pointed out that two of my brothers who suffer from heart conditions were runners who ran daily. When their heart conditions were diagnosed they were forced to cut back. Their father (not my father) also has a heart condition, diagnosed at aproximately the same age my brothers were, and to our knowledged he never exercised beyond the manual labor of day to day work. All of them are lanky and have been most of their lives. 

All this proves to me is that no one knows anything at all. Exercise, weightloss seemed to have no bearing on what was destined to happen to them through genetics. The only good thing in their favor is that due to their lifestyles and their BMI they are not held accountable for what has befallen them. 

It might also help to know that most of the people in my family are drinkers too so throw that in and who knows what is relevent. All I can do is what I can do.


----------



## stan_der_man

LillyBBBW said:


> I may have to take some of what I said previously back. I was chatting with my sister who I just had to leave work and pick up from the hospital. She is 4 1/2 months pregnant and has been placed on total bed rest so I had to go in and pick her up. As we were driving I ran my theory of our family health history and how exercise is probably the key. She pointed out that two of my brothers who suffer from heart conditions were runners who ran daily. When their heart conditions were diagnosed they were forced to cut back. Their father (not my father) also has a heart condition, diagnosed at aproximately the same age my brothers were, and to our knowledged he never exercised beyond the manual labor of day to day work. All of them are lanky and have been most of their lives.
> 
> All this proves to me is that no one knows anything at all. Exercise, weightloss seemed to have no bearing on what was destined to happen to them through genetics. The only good thing in their favor is that due to their lifestyles and their BMI they are not held accountable for what has befallen them.
> 
> It might also help to know that most of the people in my family are drinkers too so throw that in and who knows what is relevent. All I can do is what I can do.



I read an article somewhere that this subject reminds me of. It was about a guy who was a runner and just one day fell over dead in a marathon; I believe he was in his mid 40s. He wasn't one of those "extreme athletes" driving himself to the edge or anything. They really couldn't figure out what happened, he didn't seem to have anything abnormal about his heart that the doctors could find. It had some other statistics that I really don't remember off hand. The basic premise of the article was that it seems like people can exercise, have healthy habits or whatever, but they only seem to live to "X" amount of years. Some people smoke and drink and live to be 85, but here you have this guy who dies at 45+/- years. It seems like people don't necessary legnthen their lives by living healthy, but they may improve the quality of their lives during that "X" amount of years. Maybe longevity is hereditary?

Stan


----------



## LillyBBBW

fa_man_stan said:


> I read an article somewhere that this subject reminds me of. It was about a guy who was a runner and just one day fell over dead in a marathon; I believe he was in his mid 40s. He wasn't one of those "extreme athletes" driving himself to the edge or anything. They really couldn't figure out what happened, he didn't seem to have anything abnormal about his heart that the doctors could find. It had some other statistics that I really don't remember off hand. The basic premise of the article was that it seems like people can exercise, have healthy habits or whatever, but they only seem to live to "X" amount of years. Some people smoke and drink and live to be 85, but here you have this guy who dies at 45+/- years. It seems like people don't necessary legnthen their lives by living healthy, but they may improve the quality of their lives during that "X" amount of years. Maybe longevity is hereditary?
> 
> Stan



Maybe I'm destined to live to my 80's regardless of what condition I arrive there in. Whatever illnesses I incur are inevitable I suppose but I'd at least like to still be able to make it to Bingo without assistance.


----------



## waldo

fa_man_stan said:


> I read an article somewhere that this subject reminds me of. It was about a guy who was a runner and just one day fell over dead in a marathon; I believe he was in his mid 40s. He wasn't one of those "extreme athletes" driving himself to the edge or anything. They really couldn't figure out what happened, he didn't seem to have anything abnormal about his heart that the doctors could find. It had some other statistics that I really don't remember off hand. The basic premise of the article was that it seems like people can exercise, have healthy habits or whatever, but they only seem to live to "X" amount of years. Some people smoke and drink and live to be 85, but here you have this guy who dies at 45+/- years. It seems like people don't necessary legnthen their lives by living healthy, but they may improve the quality of their lives during that "X" amount of years. Maybe longevity is hereditary?
> 
> Stan




It is important not to misconstrue a few exceptional cases into a conclusion that the general rule of thumb really may not apply afterall. Just because there is the odd person who can smoke two packs a day for 50 years and not end up with lung cancer or emphysema, doesn't mean it is safe to smoke. On the flip side, just because the occasional healthy-lifestyle person drops dead unexpectedly is no reason to think that healthy living is a wasted effort. I suppose we all need to do what we can to take care of ourselves but with the realization that some of it is out of our hands.

As far as the whole weight-loss to improve health issue, I agree with the earlier comments that weight reduction via the traditional approach of a temporary reduction of caloric intake is a recipe for disaster. Unless one is committed to making permanent changes in eating and physical activity habits, it is most certainly (95 %) sure to be a failure. The best approach is likely to keep your weight from climbing too high in the first place (i.e. don't yo-yo diet your way up to ever higher weights). But then what is too high


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

LillyBBBW said:


> Maybe I'm destined to live to my 80's regardless of what condition I arrive there in. Whatever illnesses I incur are inevitable I suppose but I'd at least like to still be able to make it to Bingo without assistance.




Why is that? I am 46 and I use a scooter and it was a godsend. My mobility is compromised by a car accident 17 years ago.

You never know what curve balls life is gonna throw you. And don't assume all those fat people you see using scooters are there because of being fat.


----------



## waldo

Durin said:


> I think most FA's agree that they don't feel they have the right to tell their wives or SO what to do with their bodies.
> 
> That doesn't help us with our conflicted feelings when my wife would diet or when she decided to have WLS. I was completely worried that this woman I had married would turn into someone else I would not know.
> 
> Many FA's myself included go through life seeing things at a 45' angle compared to everyone else. We finally mature enough to accept our preference or perversion or whatever we want to call it.
> 
> (I am not a pervert, I am a sane man in a perverted world.)
> 
> Then we find someone that fits our image of who we are attracted too and we build a relationship with that person. So when that person decides to opt out of this special thing we have, I think we feel a sense of rational or irrational betrayal. A sense that the bottom has dropped out of the world.
> 
> You get over it.
> 
> But you see we FA's don't have a right to your body being a certain way, we just have these feelings, lusts and desires. And we usually just carry them around in our head, and don't normally let them out to roam.



This post nailed it. Guys (and gals) have "feelings, lusts, and desires" - exactly. Being able to channel those appropriately is the challenge. And of course what is appropriate to some is not to others. I guess an important aspect of a marriage is to be with someone who shares a similar value system.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

LillyBBBW said:


> I have a younger sister who is a size 16-18. She was feeling really down on herself about her weight and always commented about how she wished she had my self esteem and courage. I decided to take her to a Heavenly Bodies dance thinking this might lift her spirits. The women there were awful to her, some of them grumbling within earshot of her saying, "What is she doing here?" She was crushed, and never returned.
> 
> She is so down on herself sometimes I'm physically sick over it. I know a lot of people in that midsize range who suffer the same hell of being in that body size of the damned and with all we boast about size acceptance and self esteem I can't even help them or point them in a direction where they won't face some form of rage and hostility. It's one of those things you have to dig deep in your soul to stand strong against on your own I'm afraid and I admire you for taking a strong stand to do that for yourself in some way.
> 
> A strange observation: I've always been super sized but kinda sorta on the low end of it. I got some attention here and there but was never really a hit at Heavenly Bodies parties no matter how I dressed. I haven't been in ages, just too busy I guess and I'm in a different place now. New Years Eve however I went after a long hiatus and was at my heaviest at 401 pounds. I was outrageously popular, I mean, like NEVER before. I'm not kidding, I literally had to slip away unnoticed towards the end of the night. It was surreal.
> 
> Who's to blame for all of this? No one. You can't hold it against people for liking what they like or being what they are. But I know for a fact that there are lot of mid sized bbw lovers out there but it appears to me that they suffer the same scorn. They like 'em too fat for the skinny crowd but not big enough to keep from getting booed out of this forum like poseurs who don't belong.
> 
> I hear you chunky, loud and clear.



Funny to see it voiced it, Lilly.
I have wondered about such things myself. I blow it all off most of the time but I find myself mulling over whether I'm "in limbo". I'm too damn fat to be "acceptable" out in reality, yet here I sometimes feel "lacking" due to my size or not "carrying my fat right" . It's definitely a catch-22 when you think about it all.....

But either way, whether what I detect (not by everyone) is real or imagined, I'm not willing to change into something other than what I am for a person that thinks I'm "too small" anymore than I'm willing to starve anymore for acceptance on the other side of the coin.

I'm just glad for the nice people I have met here. Some make me feel really good about myself and that has definitely helped me with my self-esteem and "journey of self-acceptance". That makes the trip into cyberspace worthwhile.


----------



## SoVerySoft

What an insightful thread. 

I married twice, just after large weight losses. Neither husband was a true FA. Rebounding from the weight loss, I gained huge amounts of weight both times, and neither marriage survived.

I will never get involved with a man who is not a hard core FA. I don't want a man who "likes all sizes". I don't trust it. 

I think I am like Lilly, in that I identify with being fat, and while I would love to be more mobile, if I got motivated I would try to attain that without significantly changing my size.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

^^It's easy for me to like the guys that "like all sizes" or men that like thin ladies too because I am just like them. When I like a certain man, it depends on the individual man, not his size or build, whether or not I like him. 
That "philosophy" or "preference" strikes me as "more accepting" on some level. I feel like people have been trying to shove and push me into a box called thinness for most of my life. I have to wonder if someone that can only see me beautiful as fat is as bad as someone that cannot see me beautiful as fat. I'm here, inside, no matter what size. That's what he should be seeing.....


----------



## AnnMarie

SoVerySoft said:


> What an insightful thread.
> 
> I married twice, just after large weight losses. Neither husband was a true FA. Rebounding from the weight loss, I gained huge amounts of weight both times, and neither marriage survived.
> 
> I will never get involved with a man who is not a hard core FA. I don't want a man who "likes all sizes". I don't trust it.
> 
> I think I am like Lilly, in that I identify with being fat, and while I would love to be more mobile, if I got motivated I would try to attain that without significantly changing my size.



Agreed 100%. 

I enjoy FAs, I enjoy being with them, what they give me, what I give them in return, and then all the regular man/woman/love things that are shared beyond the fat/liking fat lines. 

I don't want a guy who would just as quickly date a size 6 as a size 26. There are fundamental differences in my body shape/look/appeal/sometimes limitations, and I want a man who is uniquely aware of those, in tune with them, and INTO them. Emotional/intellectual connections aside (those must be present for a relationship in my life), I want a guy who thinks I'm hotter than hell and whose body responds in kind. I don't want a guy who'd be just as hot about a size 10 pudge because that is something I will never be, don't care to be, and don't want to feel like "well maybe that's where 80% of his interest is, but I'm 20% he can "deal with" " - no thanks. 

I want a guy who can appreciate the size and expanse of my upper arm fat and my belly that can't be contained if my shirt is a bit too short. 

This doesn't mean I want a man who will leave me if I someday end up at 250-300lbs for some reason (never body dissatisfaction), or something. But I want a guy who is fat happy and AM happy. If I woke up someday miserable, hating my fat body and wanting to be 150lbs... I'd expect that relationship to end for a multitude of reasons... not only because my body is changing, but it would be a factor.

I've been with bisizual guys and it's just not enough for me... the passion, the amazed looks, the primitive touches.... they're just not present/the same as with a hard core FA. For me, I've had both, and one is the winner. 

I know there are other women who have no desire to have a guy who's got a large interest in their body, and that's fine... if it works for them, no problem. I just know that _for me_, it's a guy into big chicks or it's pretty much nothing.


----------



## BubbleButtBabe

fa_man_stan said:


> You may have misunderstood my previous post. I didn't say that my ideals and philosophies for admiring larger women have been dashed or changed as a whole; for example, looking at other large women and appreciating their beauty (the limited amount that a married man is allowed...). Believe me, I still appreciate the beauty of fat women. I was explaining how a FA could loose connection with someone who lost weight, and in my case how that effected my ideals that I shared with my wife. I can't believe that I've "aired my dirty laundry" with people that I really don't know on these boards... I have been open with my wife about my displeasure with her WLS (or at least she hits a wall every time she goes into territory that offend my NAAFA sensibilities.) I suppose "airing my clean linens to dry" is OK; I actually feel comfortable with what I've said...
> 
> 
> 
> I completely agree with you Lilly and Chunkymonkey! That's another important point here. We (large size community and FAs) should also be accepting of others as we wish others to be accepting of us... Lilly, your younger sister should be accepted or at least respected without a physique critique, by the larger sized gals (or whoever...). (Wow that last sentence really rhymed...) There is a lot of bad behavior out there in the size acceptance community (actually out in humanity as a whole...). Maybe I'm being naive that this will ever change, but at least we can keep having discussions like this and hopefully some people will see that what they are doing is just plain rude. Not anything to do with size acceptance issues, but just plain being rude. As for exercising and being healthy, that is also every person's right to feel the best that they can and be happy. That is just common sense, and in my opinion any respectable FA should see that. One of the things I find attractive about a women is her being vibrant and happy.
> 
> Stan



I admire you Stan and I think what you did took a lot of courage..I applaud you for standing your ground and teaching not only me but a couple more a few things..Thank you..

As you can tell I am still learning about true FAs and what it is that makes them tick..I think for you men to stand in your beliefs is a great thing..I admire you all for not giving into society's way of thinking but sticking by y'all guns..I for one think all of you men that have contributed to this thread deserve a big Thank you and a hug!


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

I completely agree!!




AnnMarie said:


> Agreed 100%.
> 
> I enjoy FAs, I enjoy being with them, what they give me, what I give them in return, and then all the regular man/woman/love things that are shared beyond the fat/liking fat lines.
> 
> I don't want a guy who would just as quickly date a size 6 as a size 26. There are fundamental differences in my body shape/look/appeal/sometimes limitations, and I want a man who is uniquely aware of those, in tune with them, and INTO them. Emotional/intellectual connections aside (those must be present for a relationship in my life), I want a guy who thinks I'm hotter than hell and whose body responds in kind. I don't want a guy who'd be just as hot about a size 10 pudge because that is something I will never be, don't care to be, and don't want to feel like "well maybe that's where 80% of his interest is, but I'm 20% he can "deal with" " - no thanks.
> 
> I want a guy who can appreciate the size and expanse of my upper arm fat and my belly that can't be contained if my shirt is a bit too short.
> 
> This doesn't mean I want a man who will leave me if I someday end up at 250-300lbs for some reason (never body dissatisfaction), or something. But I want a guy who is fat happy and AM happy. If I woke up someday miserable, hating my fat body and wanting to be 150lbs... I'd expect that relationship to end for a multitude of reasons... not only because my body is changing, but it would be a factor.
> 
> I've been with bisizual guys and it's just not enough for me... the passion, the amazed looks, the primitive touches.... they're just not present/the same as with a hard core FA. For me, I've had both, and one is the winner.
> 
> I know there are other women who have no desire to have a guy who's got a large interest in their body, and that's fine... if it works for them, no problem. I just know that _for me_, it's a guy into big chicks or it's pretty much nothing.


----------



## mossystate

I was with one man who DID like different sizes. He certainly LOVED *my* body. He did not like it 'in spite of' it being fat...trust me. I have to say that he was probably not the norm in terms of men who say they like many types( but then who said there is a 'norm' in terms of FA's ), but it IS possible. Now, I am more than open to being with a true-blue FA, as long as he is what I what in every way important to me.


----------



## SoVerySoft

I think because I am supersize I need to really know my guy LOVES supersize women. 

When I was midsize, it wasn't quite as important to me. 

Hardcore FAs aren't for everyone. A dear friend of mine hates getting attention because she is fat.


----------



## mossystate

SoVerySoft said:


> I think because I am supersize I need to really know my guy LOVES supersize women.
> 
> When I was midsize, it wasn't quite as important to me.
> 
> Hardcore FAs aren't for everyone. A dear friend of mine hates getting attention because she is fat.



I think some people are getting almost defensive ( not referring to your post..*s* ), and while I understand it, it is really important that all of us know that people are not so easily pigeonholed.

I am fine ending up with a 'hardcore FA' ( well, how I imagine that to look ), or a man who sees my fat and licks his lips, even if he can be attracted to another shape. I guess I was lucky to have found that one guy ( who was very artistic and could see so much beauty )..too bad he ended up just not being what I needed,at the time.

But, yes, if his eyes do not light up when thinking about fat, then..adios!!!!


----------



## Fuzzy

*looks in the mirror, thinking about fat womens...*

Light up, Damn you, Light up!


----------



## mossystate

Fuzzy said:


> *looks in the mirror, thinking about fat womens...*
> 
> Light up, Damn you, Light up!



 .........


----------



## waldo

Tracyarts said:


> Why would you beware of me (after all, I am one of those people who claims (no actually I know without a doubt, myself to be) attracted to all types of men?
> 
> Is the fact that I don't have one specific body height, shape, size, color, etc... which I have picked again and again above all others a problem? Is the fact that my preferences tend to follow more subtle physical attributes, or non-physical attributes really "BS"?
> 
> Tracy



Good point. With women, the preferences can often tend to be based on more subtle physical attributes, but they are preferences nonetheless. In other words it seems you are saying, as I have heard other women say, that some guys' look just doesn't float their boat. For example, some women are more attracted to a guy with a rugged look than a real pretty-boy look. Similarly, FAs such as myself can see the physical attractiveness in a thin woman but just not be sexually stimulated by them (other than in terms of fantasizing about them being larger).

On average (there will obviously be exceptions), men are much more visual than women and will be more likely to have stronger preferences for what they find attractive in the opposite sex. So it is more likely that a man who claims to 'like all sizes' is not being totally honest. I think SVS's post quoted below speaks to this issue quite convincingly. I also loved AM's post on the subject. She is the kind of woman that any 'hard-core' FA would be lucky to have a relationship with.  



SoVerySoft said:


> What an insightful thread.
> 
> I married twice, just after large weight losses. Neither husband was a true FA. Rebounding from the weight loss, I gained huge amounts of weight both times, and neither marriage survived.
> 
> I will never get involved with a man who is not a hard core FA. I don't want a man who "likes all sizes". I don't trust it.
> 
> I think I am like Lilly, in that I identify with being fat, and while I would love to be more mobile, if I got motivated I would try to attain that without significantly changing my size.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Why is that? I am 46 and I use a scooter and it was a godsend. My mobility is compromised by a car accident 17 years ago.
> 
> You never know what curve balls life is gonna throw you. And don't assume all those fat people you see using scooters are there because of being fat.



I've done nothing of the kind and never implied anything like that. I'm merely expressing my own feelings about my health, family history and hopes for the future. I'm not going to abandon all hope and effort because I fear I may be struck by lightening and killed.


----------



## bigplaidpants

BubbleButtBabe said:


> That is part of what I am trying to understand..To see some of what is written you would think if you do not weigh 300+lbs,a true FA would not look at you...I would think men have evolved past that and realize that there is a very tender person below all that they fantasize about..
> 
> ....
> 
> So if your wife decided to loose weight it wouldn't dampen your lust and eroticism for her? I know it might make it wane some,that is to be expected as aging would..Being together so long do you think there are other parts to your relationship that would fill the void?





magnoliagrows said:


> "You must spread some reputation around before giving it to chunkeymonkey again..."
> 
> Just wanted to say cheers to the limbo girls.





mossystate said:


> .....while I understand it, it is really important that all of us know that people are not so easily pigeonholed.
> 
> ...But, yes, if his eyes do not light up when thinking about fat, then..adios!!!!



*LOL, So what DOES tie these posts together? My life as an FA.*  

My life as an FA is complicated. Magnoliagrows is my wife. She is a mid-sized BBW. (and, yes, out of love and respect, she approved this post before I posted  ) She's only 5'3" or 5'4", and she has a small to average frame. At a little over 200lbs, she is exciting to look at and even more wonderful to be with. She jiggles, shakes, her belly still hangs on the sink as she looks in the mirror. One of the reasons I was attracted to her was because she was fat....even though lighter than she is now. Though I am attracted to other body types, my absolute preference is an hourglass. She *is* an hourglass. I dated very few woman who were not proportionately bigger all over - big breasts, belly, bottom. She is very hourglass shaped, which makes her figure all that more alluring and mind-splitting for me. Sound like too much objectifying? Probably. But, we've been married for 10 years....and FAism, for me, *in real life* is not just about the numbers. In fantasy? Yes. Numbers can mean everything.

That being said....let me clarify some things.

I'm one of those FA's who feels like I was born that way. For me, it all started when I was 7 or 8 and the fantasies to become fat myself. I was mesmerized by pics of really fat folk and by those few public sightings of really large/fat people out in life. Whenever I had these encounters, either with the Guiness Book of WR or in real life, it could send me into my imagination for hours. I remember those secretive(!) attempts to make my belly expand or putting pillows under my clothes and imagine the reality of it all.... If you're not an FA who experienced it like me....perhaps, it's difficult to describe those early experiences: the strange fixation on large/fat people or the strange feeling when hugging the fat ladies at church. LOL 

I am one of those FA's who didn't understand everything that was going on until in college. It was the very early 90's. I really didn't have the benefit of internet, yet. (I still don't know any other FA's in real life.) In high school, my fat fixations transposed to be clearly more focused on women. Adolescence had a formative affect on my FAism. Without any real sense of what FAism was, I only knew I was really only attracted to bigger girls. I didn't realize to what extent until a little later. But, it was clear in my history. I only went back to the larger women I dated. I would try and try to date "normal-sized" (hate these vague terms) girls, but the attraction always soon faded. I felt tortured because always wanted *more.* By the time I got to college, I met my wife. We started dating. While I dated others (all large, too), there was one other woman I was deeply attracted to; she was shorter and about 350lbs. But, she was a lesbian, I was just beginning to date my wife, and our brief turmultuous encounter didn't last long. 

What happened is I fell in love. When my wife dropped 30lbs, it did create a crisis for me. I felt like a complete a$$hole, and frankly deeply feared the whole situation. When I told her I was just more attracted to her bigger, she contemplated that and went back to her old eating habits. Lots happened in between. But, over the years, she's put on 70 more lbs. She knew my preference, but I wanted her to know it was her choice. I know it doesn't sound like much weight for many of you, but for her smaller frame, the difference has been considerable. She has done what she can live with and has grown to feel more and more sensuous by it. She wears her fat all-over, and it has made my lusting after her just that more exciting.

During all this, I had to come to terms with something. (So did she, but she must speak for herself. I don't own her, nor can I speak for her.  ) If she lost weight again, what would I do? To a great degree, I have always had to deal with that problem because it was in our college years that I really began to understand my FAism. I have always fantasized about her bigger, sometimes lots bigger. I still do. I always hoped she'd grow, size-wise, but also to be more in touch with her body the way I was. We've had 10+ years, to grow together with this. We still do. She is the one who always told me to accept myself. And, together, I've learned to keep a balance of reality and fantasy in our relationship together. I _love _being with her. It is difficult to imagine myself without her. 

The message? In reality, FAism is so much more than just about the numbers. But, yes, it's true. In my fat erotic world, I ALWAYS want more. Let me say that again...I ALWAYS want more. We both wonder if I would if she was 450.  Fantasizing is very important to keeping my sense of eroticism and my sense of my erotic self. But, when it comes to the fuller picture of our life together, the reality of our relationship, the love and affection we share outstrips my fantasies. Do we compromise? LOL In our experience, that is the nature of marriage.

Am I truly happy? Let me ask you, what happens for you in those moments of intimacy, when the softness of your bodies comes together in the intensity of tender eye-contact and your bodies, in climax, are shaking? 

As an FA, I am always drawn to confident bigger and heavier women. I adore and appreciate the heavenly body on any occasion. I find fat women incredible to talk to, to SEE as they are, and support them. Moreover, as an FA I've come to know in myself that fantasy is important to me. Through it, I've come to appreciate how it's important to the erotic life of any relationship. 

My guess is that FA's with BBW's as well as SSBBW's have to straddle the same issues of fantasy and reality. The realities of health, well-being, and activity all come up against the erotic tie that binds. As an FA, the push and pull of weight/fat/food, like a wild horse, tugs and tears at me ever so frequently. But, geez, so do my kids! And, in those windows when magnolia and I can shelter some time together, we go off into this secret world of big breasts, rubbing bellies, and incredible calves! that take us away for the time being.

That's all I wanted to say. Thanks...again....for the maturity expressed in this thread: the important questions, and the opportunity to share ourselves as FA's and our experiences. Mossy was right, it's easy to pigeonhole. But, ultimately...I think fat and FAism even comes bulging out of the box we've made for it.

I put it out there hoping someone might get something out of my experience. In fantasy and reality, both are important....but reality wins out.


----------



## butch

"bisizual"- that is my vote for best new word of 2007. 

Thanks for that, AnnMarie!


----------



## activistfatgirl

butch said:


> "bisizual"- that is my vote for best new word of 2007.
> 
> Thanks for that, AnnMarie!



I like it but I'm leery. Last thing I need is another label  that creates a categorized dichotomy of which tells anyone what they need to know about me based on a static definition. (I'm definately a bisizual.)


----------



## LillyBBBW

How about trisizual. Just because someone is one size or another size does not automatically mean I'm going to be attracted to them. I have to try them out first.


----------



## butch

LOL-LillyBBBW. I agree. 

AFG-that's why 'queer' is so useful-it says everything without giving away specifics, and in fact one could (and people have) argued that fatness is a site of queerness (see Hanne Blank's "Big Big Love" for a great short rationale for that claim).


----------



## mossystate

Many...many FA's like one very particular type of fat, female body. Some FA's like a variety of fat, female bodies( apologies to the female FA's..just going with what my thing ..is.. ). Some people might say that is different, because at least they like fat, but if you are with a FA who you see has pictures of old girlfriends( another thread altogether) and they are all 'apples' and you are a big time 'pear', are you going to feel that 'ping' in your stomach? Can you totally convince yourself that he is going to be grooving on your big thighs and butt, when your belly is rather small?...uhoh..uhoh....better start doubting his attraction...yup. 

Maybe men who like a variety ( probably not all ) of female shapes, just love women...period...maybe?...some of these men?..maybe cut some people some slack?


----------



## LillyBBBW

It's all a matter or preference really and has nothing to do with what's right or wrong or which is best. Someone prefers not to date anyone who listens to Monty Python. Might seem silly to some but whatever floats 'em I say.

Gawd I hope I'm not opening a new can of worms with this comparison. 




mossystate said:


> Many...many FA's like one very particular type of fat, female body. Some FA's like a variety of fat, female bodies( apologies to the female FA's..just going with what my thing ..is.. ). Some people might say that is different, because at least they like fat, but if you are with a FA who you see has pictures of old girlfriends( another thread altogether) and they are all 'apples' and you are a big time 'pear', are you going to feel that 'ping' in your stomach? Can you totally convince yourself that he is going to be grooving on your big thighs and butt, when your belly is rather small?...uhoh..uhoh....better start doubting his attraction...yup.
> 
> Maybe men who like a variety ( probably not all ) of female shapes, just love women...period...maybe?...some of these men?..maybe cut some people some slack?


----------



## fatgirlflyin

mossystate said:


> Many...many FA's like one very particular type of fat, female body.



I agree with that point. I've been told more times that I care to count that I'm not fat enough. The too fat one isn't fun either but you have to just roll with it and try to not take it personally (at least that's what I do). Everyone is attracted to different things and just because I dont happen to be that "thing" for one person doesn't mean that I'm not "it" for 10 other someones. 

Maybe that's why I prefer to date people who enjoy all different body types. Because I've never really fit into any one pigeonhole that people try so hard to shove each other into. 

I have to admit though that until I met my current partner, I never found myself attracted to big men. I had always dated and been with very fit, athletic men. Someone hard and angular to contrast my soft body. Since meeting him and being in a relationship with him I see myself noticing BHM's more and more. Dont know why, just know that I am. As far as women go, I am attracted to thin women just as well as fat. However, I PREFER large women. I like the feeling of her soft curvy body against my soft curvy body.

So while I can say that I enjoy people of all body types I definitely have a preference, and I can see how people would not want to feel like they were not my preference. I think that's the point that's being made with the people that are saying they want an FA and only an FA. Please correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## crazygrad

Lilly,
I really appreciate your post about your sister's experience and I think it illustrates an important distinction between PREFERENCE and BEHAVIOR.

I, for one, don't want to tell anyone what they can or should be attracted to or what to find beautiful. Nor do I think we should necessarily tell people there is only one way to act.

On the other hand, I'm not sure why a group of people, no matter the size, would choose to be rude to someone who doesn't look the part, so to speak. Whether its at a fat girls weekend, a cheerleader camp or a high school prom, it just seems like such a waste of energy to be nasty to someone because they don't have the magic size on their label.

So, no- I don't blame for liking what they like. And I don't hold them responsible for having a certain preference.

But I do think we can hold people responsible for how they act.


----------



## stan_der_man

bigplaidpants said:


> *LOL, So what DOES tie these posts together? My life as an FA.*
> 
> My life as an FA is complicated. ......
> 
> I put it out there hoping someone might get something out of my experience. In fantasy and reality, both are important....but reality wins out.



I can completely relate to what you are saying BigPlaid. My outlet as a FA was to make drawings of the women that I dreamed of, but rarely saw. I kept them is a case under my bed. One night I drew a particularly good drawing using pastels. I decided to spray it with fixant so it wouldn't smear, which needless to say really stank up my room. My mom burst in, probably thinking I was sniffing glue or something and discovered my drawings. She looked at them, just gave them back to me and didn't say anything. That was the day she discovered that I was attracted to fat women. From then on, I made my drawings in pencil or felt tip.

Kudos to you BigPlaid (I'm out of reps at the moment...)

Stan


----------



## LillyBBBW

I totally agree crazygrad. 




crazygrad said:


> Lilly,
> I really appreciate your post about your sister's experience and I think it illustrates an important distinction between PREFERENCE and BEHAVIOR.
> 
> I, for one, don't want to tell anyone what they can or should be attracted to or what to find beautiful. Nor do I think we should necessarily tell people there is only one way to act.
> 
> On the other hand, I'm not sure why a group of people, no matter the size, would choose to be rude to someone who doesn't look the part, so to speak. Whether its at a fat girls weekend, a cheerleader camp or a high school prom, it just seems like such a waste of energy to be nasty to someone because they don't have the magic size on their label.
> 
> So, no- I don't blame for liking what they like. And I don't hold them responsible for having a certain preference.
> 
> But I do think we can hold people responsible for how they act.


----------



## bigplaidpants

fa_man_stan said:


> I can completely relate to what you are saying BigPlaid. My outlet as a FA was to make drawings of the women that I dreamed of, but rarely saw. I kept them is a case under my bed. One night I drew a particularly good drawing using pastels. I decided to spray it with fixant so it wouldn't smear, which needless to say really stank up my room. My mom burst in, probably thinking I was sniffing glue or something and discovered my drawings. She looked at them, just gave them back to me and didn't say anything. That was the day she discovered that I was attracted to fat women. From then on, I made my drawings in pencil or felt tip.
> 
> Kudos to you BigPlaid (I'm out of reps at the moment...)
> 
> Stan



Thanks, Stan. I'm outta rep, myself.

It's hard to express how liberating it is to find others who resonate with my experiences - not only the fat fantasies I had as a kid (and I can still muster up to some degree), the erotics of food and big women, but especially _the reality of life, love, and marriage_. My posts above basically say it....you can try to live on one side or the other of your dreams, being angry at anyone who doesn't think you can have them or disagrees with you. But reality demands you to stand in the tension. That's where life and long-term relationships are lived, anyway. 

My experience is that you can't live only through your fantasies, no matter what they are. Frankly, some of my fantasies have conflicting interests!

Anyway....thanks for the feedback. I kinda hung myself and magnoliagrows out there. I was worried we gave TMI. But, frankly, if I was a struggling FA - I would have gained from hearing my experience.


----------



## furious styles

fa_man_stan said:


> I can completely relate to what you are saying BigPlaid. My outlet as a FA was to make drawings of the women that I dreamed of, but rarely saw. I kept them is a case under my bed. One night I drew a particularly good drawing using pastels. I decided to spray it with fixant so it wouldn't smear, which needless to say really stank up my room. My mom burst in, probably thinking I was sniffing glue or something and discovered my drawings. She looked at them, just gave them back to me and didn't say anything. That was the day she discovered that I was attracted to fat women. From then on, I made my drawings in pencil or felt tip.
> 
> Kudos to you BigPlaid (I'm out of reps at the moment...)
> 
> Stan



i did that too. still do in fact! aside from the hiding.


----------



## MissToodles

I can't change others preferences here, but I'll have to respectfully disagree. I've had nothing but trouble with so called "hardcore" F.A.'s. While I like my body appreciated and feeling "hot" for my s.o., I don't like it to be the dealbreaker in a relationship. I understand where both of you are coming from, sometimes I would be suspicious of someone who has such a wide net. But, I hate the feeling that my relationship is contigent on me staying a certain way. Our physicality is so mutable, who knows what I'll look like 2, 5, 10 years from now. 
I'm with someone who defintely thinks "wow" when he sees me, I've been fatter, I've been borderline supersized and the size I am now. I've always been appreciated in all my phases.
He's been with women of all sizes from thin, to chubby, to bigger than me. He doesn't deingrate me, he understands my limitations, yet he sincerely is attracted to all body sizes. To him, a beautiful woman is a beautiful woman at all weights (although he admits a bias against very thin women). I can't help but feel more comfortable with someone like him. I just don't want someone so invested in my body size and staying at a certain weight to be found attractive just bothers me. But then again, what works for me, might not work for you and vice versa.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

MissToodles said:


> I can't change others preferences here, but I'll have to respectfully disagree. I've had nothing but trouble with so called "hardcore" F.A.'s. While I like my body appreciated and feeling "hot" for my s.o., I don't like it to be the dealbreaker in a relationship. I understand where both of you are coming from, sometimes I would be suspicious of someone who has such a wide net. But, I hate the feeling that my relationship is contigent on me staying a certain way. Our physicality is so mutable, who knows what I'll look like 2, 5, 10 years from now.
> I'm with someone who defintely thinks "wow" when he sees me, I've been fatter, I've been borderline supersized and the size I am now. I've always been appreciated in all my phases.
> He's been with women of all sizes from thin, to chubby, to bigger than me. He doesn't deingrate me, he understands my limitations, yet he sincerely is attracted to all body sizes. To him, a beautiful woman is a beautiful woman at all weights (although he admits a bias against very thin women). I can't help but feel more comfortable with someone like him. I just don't want someone so invested in my body size and staying at a certain weight to be found attractive just bothers me. But then again, what works for me, might not work for you and vice versa.



Exactly- I was married to a man that had past girlfriends much smaller than me and others much larger. I liked that about him- his ability to like people without prerequisites of their appearance.


----------



## bigplaidpants

I had to quote too many posts to really just boil it down to this question:

On the side of BBW's and SSBBW's needing to clarify their preferences, I can see why making this differentiation between "hard core" and "bisizual" FA's is important. I'm not suggesting that such ideas shouldn't be made or in operation. But, I have to say, I think this is ultimately an uneasy distinction. 

Am I a "bisizual FA" because I didn't marry someone over 300-400lbs? (Even though, I have regular fantasies of it?) Am I bisizual because I have feeder/gaining fantasies that I generally keep in check?...for all the reasons often posted on this board?

For me, being an FA goes beyond simply one's "appetite for women" or a specific size. That is not to detract from what SVS and AM are saying however. As SSBBW's, they have an important interest in making sure their lovers know and love every part of them. 

But, for me, being an FA runs deeper. For one, it runs deep in one's erotic experience altogether. I don't know many on this board - HeatherBBW, BigBellySSBBW, edx, and others - who have had their fat fetish and fat fantasies going back into their childhood. I resonate with this. Their FAism runs over simply the object of their desire and sexual preferences. There is a FAism with a history, engrained in one's relationship with themselves, that runs deep to fat and size itself.

For me, because of this experience, I don't want to short-circuit the definition of a true FA, where a "hard core" FA is *really* a FA and a bisizual FA is only kinda a FA, simply based on the size of the BBW they love. I certainly understand its importance from the BBW's perspective. So, please, don't hear me dissenting. I just think FAism is more complicated.

As always, I welcome criticisms.


----------



## chunkeymonkey

bigplaidpants said:


> I had to quote too many posts to really just boil it down to this question:
> 
> On the side of BBW's and SSBBW's needing to clarify their preferences, I can see why making this differentiation between "hard core" and "bisizual" FA's is important. I'm not suggesting that such ideas shouldn't be made or in operation. But, I have to say, I think this is ultimately an uneasy distinction.
> 
> Am I a "bisizual FA" because I didn't marry someone over 300-400lbs? (Even though, I have regular fantasies of it?) Am I bisizual because I have feeder/gaining fantasies that I generally keep in check?...for all the reasons often posted on this board?
> 
> For me, being an FA goes beyond simply one's "appetite for women" or a specific size. That is not to detract from what SVS and AM are saying however. As SSBBW's, they have an important interest in making sure their lovers know and love every part of them.
> 
> But, for me, being an FA runs deeper. For one, it runs deep in one's erotic experience altogether. I don't know many on this board - HeatherBBW, BigBellySSBBW, edx, and others - who have had their fat fetish and fat fantasies going back into their childhood. I resonate with this. Their FAism runs over simply the object of their desire and sexual preferences. There is a FAism with a history, engrained in one's relationship with themselves, that runs deep to fat and size itself.
> 
> For me, because of this experience, I don't want to short-circuit the definition of a true FA, where a "hard core" FA is *really* a FA and a bisizual FA is only kinda a FA, simply based on the size of the BBW they love. I certainly understand its importance from the BBW's perspective. So, please, don't hear me dissenting. I just think FAism is more complicated.
> 
> As always, I welcome criticisms.



When I heard this topic come up a while ago about men fantasizing about bigger women and having a smaller one in reality, I always thought the guy just settled. I had a hard time understanding why a guy would marry a bbw when he really wanted a ssbbw, other than maybe he figured he couldn't hack it having a woman as large as he desired. I had many times where I became more insecure with thoughts I was not good enough even though I was reassured I was. It is funny when I explain to my best friend that one of my biggest competitors for my husband's attention is a ssbbw. Most women fear their partner will leave them for smaller and a younger someone. I became so jealous with the thoughts that he wants a 400lb woman and I am only a bit over half that. I would also ask myself " would I feel the same if my husband just decided he was gay and preferred a man?" No matter how I look at it and as much as I try to understand it and the rationales, I know I will always have these insecurities of what if and why. When I dig deep to see if this is something I can get past, I start to understand the thoughts the desires and fantasy's that he has. When I see other FA's voice their feelings on the issue, it really helps bring me to new level of understanding.
I start thinking about how people can change over time. Its no ones' fault peoples taste in things change. I know I have come through numerous amounts of fashion styles and tossed out things that i never thought I would get rid of. I think as a bbw who has been a bbw all of her life, I wait secretly for the day where I am told "its been fun,thanks for humoring me I found someone better". Growing up where FAT was considered UGLY by all my friends and family, I was just the girl with a pretty face and hair.
I thought I was never really good enough if I didn't lose weight to fit into what my friends and family thought of as normal. I thought the best way to go is be with a FA who would actually like me being FAT. He will love me for the package deal. Somewhere in my head I was only thinking about what I was wanting. I used to think if a FA loves Fat and I decided to lose weight and get skinny, he would still be happy. I thought this because when I am FAT, he will be the guy with a FAT wife, whereas if I lose weight he will have a skinny good looking wife from family and friends stand point effectively raising his standing with others who have a hard time believing his FA preference isn't an illness or fetish.
I see now that FA's and bbw/ssbbw have gone through much of the same pain mentally with the way society has come down on us for the way we are and the way we live.


----------



## James

Toodles and Green Eyed Fairy - I'm agreeing with you both. Big Plaid - I'm repped out for you but I hear you also... 

The biggest gf I've gone out with wasnt the sexiest on account of her being 350lbs (ish?). I thought the scale was a negative thing and we agreed on her getting rid of it). 

She was a cool girl but I didnt connect with her, or enjoy... ahem "horizontal time" as much as a previous gf of several years earlier who must have been a good 6 or 7 stone lighter. Ultimately neither were right for me but that was nothing to do with any size related issue. 

Thats not to say that I didnt find her more or less outwardly attractive - both were fat. Both were sexy. I have nothing bad to say about either... but its the person that you are making love to is what makes the feeling incredible, amazing or just average... not some kind of numeric sexiness barcode???


----------



## Brenda

""But, for me, being an FA runs deeper. For one, it runs deep in one's erotic experience altogether. I don't know many on this board - HeatherBBW, BigBellySSBBW, edx, and others - who have had their fat fetish and fat fantasies going back into their childhood. I resonate with this. Their FAism runs over simply the object of their desire and sexual preferences. There is a FAism with a history, engrained in one's relationship with themselves, that runs deep to fat and size itself.""

I firmly believe a very large percentage of fat woman just happen to be fat. It was not intentional, it just came about for a thousand different reasons. Most of us do not find the fat itself sexual while, we naturally like any sized woman sense our sexual power in relationship to our bodies. So even if a man with your ingrained desires enters a relationship with a very fat woman he may find she will not share the same sexualization of fat.

Your saying being a fa is basically at the core of who you are as a sexual being makes me wonder why those with similar sexual tendencies would not seek out a like minded partner. To me I would imagine it as a partner telling a woman after a few years that he has a deep passion for petite, slender woman at the core of who he is but don't worry I love you anyway. It seems fraudulent and cruel to the partner who may try to accommodate the desires but realize she just can't bring her body to a state of extreme thinness or fatness. And in all truth even is she could attain the desired body, she could never attain the sexual connection to the fat or the thinness.

While I understand that those in relationships with folks who do not share the eroticism of fat can be in love and have all sorts of other wonderful componets of a relationship. It just seems to me that there will be a huge vacuum and sooner or later the desire to have it filled will emerge.

Brenda


----------



## AnnMarie

bigplaidpants said:


> For me, because of this experience, I don't want to short-circuit the definition of a true FA, where a "hard core" FA is *really* a FA and a bisizual FA is only kinda a FA, simply based on the size of the BBW they love.



Okay, *for MY use and definition of bisizual, it doesn't apply to FAs at all.* It applies ONLY to a guy who would date a size 6 or a 36 just as easily. That is NOT an FA in my definition of an FA. 

An FA likes fat women, degrees of fat are fine and don't make him less of one - he might like anywhere from 200-500lbs... fine. He's still an FA if fat women are his preference. Within that group, he may have a stronger attraction toward a woman of 250-325lbs, whereas the 375-450lbs variety would be on a more case by case basis. Fine. He's still an FA if he treats the women accordingly (see about a million of my/Misty's old posts on FAs if you don't understand what "accordingly" means.)

Bisizual, as my use, means simply a guy who'd date "anyone" - really small to really big.

Just had to clear that up, because I don't consider bisizual to be anything to describe FAs and it actually made me bristle to read it.


----------



## SoVerySoft

bigplaidpants said:


> ...Am I a "bisizual FA" because I didn't marry someone over 300-400lbs? (Even though, I have regular fantasies of it?) Am I bisizual because I have feeder/gaining fantasies that I generally keep in check?...for all the reasons often posted on this board?
> 
> For me, being an FA goes beyond simply one's "appetite for women" or a specific size. That is not to detract from what SVS and AM are saying however. As SSBBW's, they have an important interest in making sure their lovers know and love every part of them....



I think I'd like to elaborate more on my perspective. 

I don't consider an FA who only lusts for SSBBWs to be more of an FA than a bisizual FA, but I do think he has specific tastes. My body has things going on that a smaller BBW doesn't share. I have creases, folds, bulges, and parts that exist only because of my extreme size. 

My comfort zone is knowing that the guy I am with enjoys that, and doesn't expect me to be a fluffy soft larger version of a thin woman. It is almost like I am another species.

Also, I have limitations, and it helps for me to know that a guy I am with has experience with some of the challenges that face a SSBBW.

When I was midsize I was not that different from a thin woman - but my parts were bigger and softer. But even then I had trouble being with a guy who was accepting of my size simply because he liked ME. I still needed someone who wanted to be able to grab a handful of belly, and be happy about it. 

Once I knew there were FAs, I couldn't settle for less.

My last serious boyfriend told me he has been with and enjoyed women of all sizes. While it made me a little leery, I got past it once I learned that his deep down preference is for supersize, and his lust for me was more than obvious. Maybe I resolved it in my mind by assuming that he was just working his way up to me, and my body was what he really wanted.  

And to address your question, Plaid, are you bisizual because you are with someone who is one size, but you fantasize about another size? I don't think so. 

To me, bisizual is someone who is equally drawn to different extremes, usually thin and fat. I don't know if it comes into play as much for different size bbws, to me. I think a fat-loving man can enjoy all flavors of bbws, it is only disconcerting when a guy likes thin and fat.

I think lots of people fall in love with someone who might not be our physical ideal - even though we are completely attracted to them. For example - a man who marries a woman with large breasts, but his fantasy might be extreme breasts. Enormous breasts will still turn his head and fuel his fantasies, but his (simply) large breasted wife is his love and his reality.


----------



## Sweet Tooth

Maybe it's just me, but there's no way realistically I could get all of my needs or fantasies fulfilled in one person. Obviously some characteristics are more important, and I chose my man based on those things. Sometimes I think the only way I'd have been always 100% happy and satisfied would have been to marry a shape shifter and/or personality chameleon... although it's good for me not to get my own way all the time. 

This isn't to say people shouldn't marry or date one with whom they find a significant level of love and attraction, of course. I'd just say that it's a realistic view, but reality may have very little to do with someone's fantasy partner.


----------



## bigplaidpants

Brenda, AM, & SVS - Thank you for your helpful replies. I like to introspect, and I confess I'm a bit embarrassed. :blush: After I posted, I realized my questions and response came out of anxiety. "Was I a true FA?!?"  Your responses clarify my misinterpretation. 




Brenda said:


> ....Most of us do not find the fat itself sexual while, we naturally like any sized woman sense our sexual power in relationship to our bodies....
> 
> While I understand that those in relationships with folks who do not share the eroticism of fat can be in love and have all sorts of other wonderful componets of a relationship. It just seems to me that there will be a huge vacuum and sooner or later the desire to have it filled will emerge.
> 
> Brenda



You clarify a couple of separate, but deeply related issues. I'm really impressed by how you say bring them such clarity. :bow: To really address them would require more autobiography for me - something of which I've already spread alot of on this thread. I don't assume anyone is particularly interested in more (or even what I've put up already). If you want to my response to them, I'd be happy to PM you. 



AnnMarie said:


> Okay, *for MY use and definition of bisizual, it doesn't apply to FAs at all.* It applies ONLY to a guy who would date a size 6 or a 36 just as easily. That is NOT an FA in my definition of an FA....
> 
> Just had to clear that up, because I don't consider bisizual to be anything to describe FAs and it actually made me bristle to read it.



:blink: Sorry I made you bristle. LOL Your clarity about your feelings about FA's and your preference for them has been something I've admired. It helps put clarity and positivity on a sense of fat eroticism and sexuality that I think is needed and a benefit to everybody. Perhaps my "newbie-ness" on this particular issue is showing. Thanks (again) for clarifying your meaning. 




SoVerySoft said:


> I think I'd like to elaborate more on my perspective.
> 
> I don't consider an FA who only lusts for SSBBWs to be more of an FA than a bisizual FA, but I do think he has specific tastes. .... And to address your question, Plaid, are you bisizual because you are with someone who is one size, but you fantasize about another size? I don't think so. .....



SVS, I appreciate for your generous reply. You seem to be generous all around.  Your response is as forthcoming as it is warm. And I trust, from what you've included from my quote, that my call for attention didn't overshadow what I heard you saying. 

Perhaps it goes without saying: This thread has really brought home to me the uniqueness of experiences and perspectives swarming around FAism and "the fat life." Being both lovingly and erotically DEEPLY DESIRED for who we are, body and soul, ties us together, it seems. 

It may sound gushing, but it's been a privilege to plumb these issues with you. Talking across the FA-SS/BBW gap has been as rewarding as enlightening.


----------



## rainyday

bigplaidpants said:


> To really address them would require more autobiography for me - something of which I've already spread alot of on this thread. I don't assume anyone is particularly interested in more (or even what I've put up already). If you want to my response to them, I'd be happy to PM you.


Blogs in the Clubhouse are where many of us share this type of thing.


----------



## bigplaidpants

rainyday said:


> Blogs in the Clubhouse are where many of us share this type of thing.



Rainy....thanks for lookin' out for me.  I've been waiting for an excuse to join.


----------



## rainyday

Well then join on up and bring Magnolia too. You guys will fit in well.


----------



## Jon Blaze

Rainy is right you know.


----------



## Santaclear

Rainy is always right.


----------



## CleverBomb

Santaclear said:


> Rainy is always right.


Doesn't this belong in the "FA Code of Conduct" thread? 
-Rusty


----------



## chunkeymonkey

Brenda said:


> ""But, for me, being an FA runs deeper. For one, it runs deep in one's erotic experience altogether. I don't know many on this board - HeatherBBW, BigBellySSBBW, edx, and others - who have had their fat fetish and fat fantasies going back into their childhood. I resonate with this. Their FAism runs over simply the object of their desire and sexual preferences. There is a FAism with a history, engrained in one's relationship with themselves, that runs deep to fat and size itself.""
> 
> I firmly believe a very large percentage of fat woman just happen to be fat. It was not intentional, it just came about for a thousand different reasons. Most of us do not find the fat itself sexual while, we naturally like any sized woman sense our sexual power in relationship to our bodies. So even if a man with your ingrained desires enters a relationship with a very fat woman he may find she will not share the same sexualization of fat.
> 
> 
> 
> Your saying being a fa is basically at the core of who you are as a sexual being makes me wonder why those with similar sexual tendencies would not seek out a like minded partner. To me I would imagine it as a partner telling a woman after a few years that he has a deep passion for petite, slender woman at the core of who he is but don't worry I love you anyway. It seems fraudulent and cruel to the partner who may try to accommodate the desires but realize she just can't bring her body to a state of extreme thinness or fatness. And in all truth even is she could attain the desired body, she could never attain the sexual connection to the fat or the thinness.
> 
> While I understand that those in relationships with folks who do not share the eroticism of fat can be in love and have all sorts of other wonderful componets of a relationship. It just seems to me that there will be a huge vacuum and sooner or later the desire to have it filled will emerge.
> 
> Brenda



You're right I think not all women who are in a relationship with a FA can ever fully understand the mind of a FA. I can understand the desires and wants. I can help act out some of the fantasy's. I have a hard time understanding what it is that they get out of FAT sexually. My husband says that, at least for him, it is more a visual thing than a touch thing. Maybe I cant get it if I am not fully comfortable and aware of my own fat issues.


----------



## rainyday

Clearly I am going to need to revist this thread when my rep supply is restocked. There are such wise men posting here.


----------



## AnnMarie

bigplaidpants said:


> :blink: Sorry I made you bristle. LOL



hahah, that's ok, not much makes me bristle!  It was more someone else reading would think that's what I had said or thought... just had to get that clear.


----------



## Tad

chunkeymonkey said:


> My husband says that, at least for him, it is more a visual thing than a touch thing. .



And for me it is more of a touch thing than a visual thing. Which I think goes to illustrate that "understanding FAs" is only slightly more possible than something like "understanding women." Doesn't mean that the effort is not worthwhile, it just means that it will never totally succeed.

-Ed


----------



## Tad

Sweet Tooth said:


> Maybe it's just me, but there's no way realistically I could get all of my needs or fantasies fulfilled in one person. Obviously some characteristics are more important, and I chose my man based on those things. Sometimes I think the only way I'd have been always 100% happy and satisfied would have been to marry a shape shifter and/or personality chameleon...



100% agreed, and I'd say "110%" if I wasn't such a math geek that the phrase offends me. 

That is EXACTLY how I feel on that topic. So you have to set priorities. The hard part is that few of us know exactly what it is that we really want, and even less what we will want 10, 20, or more years in the future. So we do our best in choosing then do our best in making it work, and more often than not it does.

-Ed


----------



## Lapwing

As a n00b on the Forum I want to say thanks to all the posters on this thread for enlightening me in the ways of FAs, some of which I feel is pertinent to my life at the moment.

When I met my husband I could just about pass for a "normal" size, but in the ten years we have been together I have gained about 50lb and no longer fit society's "normal" standards, although I think I would probably be classed as an in-betweener on this board, much like BigPlaidPants described his wife.

So because I met my husband when I was at pretty much my thinnest as an adult, I sort of assume in my head that he wants a normal sized girl. As I have increased in size, his appreciation of my size has become more noticeable and he has become more vocal in his admiration for larger women, whereas I have become more embarrassed and inhibited because of my changing body. He appreciates my larger belly and I just feel more self conscious. 

Husband has never as far as I know come onto Dimensions so doesn't know the FA terminology, but I think he would class himself as an FA. He has told me that he prefers my body now to how I was when we met and when I have challenged him as to how much weight I would have to gain for my body to be a turn off, I can see he wouldn't mind me gaining quite a lot more if it happened.

But I have a problem. Because when I met him, he wasn't an "out" FA and I was a conventionally "normal" size, I sort of can't get my head to believe him. I always wished for an out and out FA who would put it out there that he liked me fat and appreciated my size right from the get-go whereas I can't get my head round it to feel that my husband's admiration is real because he started going out with me when I was smaller and could "pass" in society.

My husband and I never really talk very much about my size, I have never really discussed how I feel with him (or anyone really) as to be honest, I am embarrassed about being fat because of deep seated messages ingrained into me by my parents, especially my mother who has "struggled" with her weight all her life.

I wish that I could let myself be happy with what I am and stop feeling self conscious about what I _think_ other people think and let my "sort-of" FA husband shower attention onto me which is what he wants to do, but at the moment I feel uncomfortable with. I just want to believe him when he tells me he loves my body as well as everything else! This is one of the reasons to have joined Dimensions, to try and improve my self esteem by being with people like yourselves.

I do apologise for the rather confused and rambling posting, and I hope that it is a least slightly appropriate for this thread. As a newbie I have rather a lot of stuff going round in my head, so please let me know if this is an inappropriate post. Thanks for listening


----------



## LillyBBBW

it wasn't confusing at all Lapwing, and welcome to the boards!  How things go for you would depend mostly on how you feel about you when you look in the mirror. There's a fine differential between being embarrassed about your body because of societal pressures and being embarrassed by your body because YOU don't like what you are. If you find yourself going shopping for clothes, trying things on and enjoying the way a well fitted dress or outfit looks on your curves as you swirl about in the mirror then there is hope. It is only a matter of time before the self consciousness and anxiety will ease if you are really working at it. But there's a difference between that and hating being fat. If the whole world rises with one voice to tell you how gorgeous you are as is it won't mean a thing if YOU don't agree. I think the key is to begin to learn to feel good about yourself. Your husband is already there from what I've gathered. But if you hate being fat and feeling good about yourself invovles weight loss, that is something you have to come to terms with as well. Fortunately you have the added bonus that your husband will love you either way, something a lot of people don't have - fat and thin alike. Whatever you decide to do I wish you all the best!





Lapwing said:


> As a n00b on the Forum I want to say thanks to all the posters on this thread for enlightening me in the ways of FAs, some of which I feel is pertinent to my life at the moment.
> 
> When I met my husband I could just about pass for a "normal" size, but in the ten years we have been together I have gained about 50lb and no longer fit society's "normal" standards, although I think I would probably be classed as an in-betweener on this board, much like BigPlaidPants described his wife.
> 
> So because I met my husband when I was at pretty much my thinnest as an adult, I sort of assume in my head that he wants a normal sized girl. As I have increased in size, his appreciation of my size has become more noticeable and he has become more vocal in his admiration for larger women, whereas I have become more embarrassed and inhibited because of my changing body. He appreciates my larger belly and I just feel more self conscious.
> 
> Husband has never as far as I know come onto Dimensions so doesn't know the FA terminology, but I think he would class himself as an FA. He has told me that he prefers my body now to how I was when we met and when I have challenged him as to how much weight I would have to gain for my body to be a turn off, I can see he wouldn't mind me gaining quite a lot more if it happened.
> 
> But I have a problem. Because when I met him, he wasn't an "out" FA and I was a conventionally "normal" size, I sort of can't get my head to believe him. I always wished for an out and out FA who would put it out there that he liked me fat and appreciated my size right from the get-go whereas I can't get my head round it to feel that my husband's admiration is real because he started going out with me when I was smaller and could "pass" in society.
> 
> My husband and I never really talk very much about my size, I have never really discussed how I feel with him (or anyone really) as to be honest, I am embarrassed about being fat because of deep seated messages ingrained into me by my parents, especially my mother who has "struggled" with her weight all her life.
> 
> I wish that I could let myself be happy with what I am and stop feeling self conscious about what I _think_ other people think and let my "sort-of" FA husband shower attention onto me which is what he wants to do, but at the moment I feel uncomfortable with. I just want to believe him when he tells me he loves my body as well as everything else! This is one of the reasons to have joined Dimensions, to try and improve my self esteem by being with people like yourselves.
> 
> I do apologise for the rather confused and rambling posting, and I hope that it is a least slightly appropriate for this thread. As a newbie I have rather a lot of stuff going round in my head, so please let me know if this is an inappropriate post. Thanks for listening


----------



## Elfcat

I think people get way too hung up on numbers. I don't know what my wife weighs right at this moment. I don't know by that if she's gaining or losing weight, though she tells me she thinks she's in an upswing. Any transition will bring a reaction. The reaction can be all positive, or all negative, but usually I think it's a combination of both.

(Note: as often seems to happen, I'm listening to KPFA and they are playing a totally appropriate song, a funny blue-grass number called "I Can See Your Aura And It's Ugly" - "I can see your aura and it's ugly. Your spirit must be rotten to the core. And to a new age guy like me, it brings pain and misery, so you see I cannot love you anymore.")

But back to all this fortune-telling.

Allow me one moment of channeling Sam Kinnison.

How do you know when you're uncomfortable enough with the way a mate has changed?

WHEN YOU'RE UNCOMFORTABLE ENOUGH WITH THE WAY THEY'VE CHANGED YOU IDIOTS, OWWW, OWWWWWWW!!!!! :doh:

Seriously though, some of the question here seems to be that people are worrying about when they're going to start being worried. If I ever saw a statement in need of a good bong hit...

Relationships are born, live and go under. Sometimes they're for life, sometimes not quite. If you have what someone craves and they have something you crave, then feast while it's there. What is the use of worrying how long it lasts? Who can dictate to someone else when to start and stop being turned on?


----------



## LillyBBBW

Elfcat said:


> (Note: as often seems to happen, I'm listening to KPFA and they are playing a totally appropriate song, a funny blue-grass number called "I Can See Your Aura And It's Ugly" - "I can see your aura and it's ugly. Your spirit must be rotten to the core. And to a new age guy like me, it brings pain and misery, so you see I cannot love you anymore.")



I haven't heard that song in AGES! I loved that song.


----------



## Lapwing

Thanks for the welcome Lily  

I feel ambiguous when I look in the mirror. Sometimes (in private) I feel really hot about myself, but then feel embarrassed for feeling that way. Sometimes even the thought of gaining weight is exciting, but then my "logical" brain brings me back to reality and I think about what other people would think about me.

It doesn't help that the sector that I work in is full of really fit people who think nothing of going out for a run at lunchtime, or cycle 20 miles to and from work  I sometimes feel really ashamed about my size when at work, and being the fattest person there, but deep down I don't hate my body, I hate what I perceive the media, my colleagues and especially my mother would think if I just accepted myself and enjoyed being the size I was and let my husband enjoy me at the size I'm at.



LillyBBBW said:


> But if you hate being fat and feeling good about yourself invovles weight loss, that is something you have to come to terms with as well.



I have only dieted once as an adult, about seven years ago for five months. It was absolutely awful and made me feel so bad about myself, in fact it was the worst I have ever felt about myself since I was a teenager. At that point I *did* hate my body as I was constantly thinking about it, and about what I ate. It didn't help that husband (who verges on BHM size) managed to lose 25lbs during the time I lost 4lbs (and he cheated!) I stopped dieting when I realised how unhappy it was making me and have gone back to ambiguity about my body.

One of the things that gives me hope that I will be able to learn to accept myself again, is I love shopping for pretty clothes and underwear. I love trying things on and at this point, I can feel quite hot and attractive. So in the privacy of my own head, I feel OK, it's just in the presence of other people I feel self-concious.

Maybe I have to "come out" in public as a fat person to enable me to accept myself. Everyone can see that I am fat, I just need to be able to admit it out loud, stop feeling embarrassed and stop pretending that one day I'll "fit in" again. 



LillyBBBW said:


> It is only a matter of time before the self consciousness and anxiety will ease if you are really working at it. But there's a difference between that and hating being fat. If the whole world rises with one voice to tell you how gorgeous you are as is it won't mean a thing if YOU don't agree. I think the key is to begin to learn to feel good about yourself.



I think the problems for me are that: 
a) I have years of parental conditioning telling me that fat people are worthless/ugly/will never get a boyfriend etc etc, and 
b) deep down I can't make myself believe that my husband really likes me fat as he was there from the start when I was thinner which is when he was originally attracted to me. 

If strangers started to come up to me and tell me how gorgeous I was or I'd met husband at the size I am now and he said from the start that he thought my size was gorgeous I would be more likely to believe them and I have to admit, it is something that I sometimes fantasize about. Bleh - the brain is a stupid thing on occasion! 

Sorry to have gone massively off topic in my posts :doh:


----------



## LillyBBBW

Everybody has anxieties about their bodies. Absolutely everybody. I used to work with this woman who was unbelievably gorgeous. She had Cindy Crawford beauty with legs that went on forever. All the guys in the office thought she was the hottest thing and we were somewhat friends. I felt fat and clumsy around her, I didnt have the highest self esteem but in contrast she was in the gym almost every day trying to maintain her weight. She had a tendency to put on weight and she loved to eat. It was a crippling cross for her to bear and her mother gave her hell if she put on five pounds. 

Well one day I went on a shopping spree. I found some VERY curve flattering knee length dresses, skirts, tops that looked killer on me. I think I spent close to $500 on clothes one weekend and was strutting my stuff around in them. It really made me feel so good. Well I remember my friend looked at me as I approached. I could see she really examined me from head to toe in my man killer dress and she didn't say anything. She didn't say, "Wow! You look great!" Strangers and passers by said nice things but she was very mum as if I hadn't changed a thing about me. But I noticed her attitude towards me changed a bit. She wasn't mean or cold, just different - not as talkative or chummy. I was really crushed, I was looking for her to say something as I really looked up to her in that way. But it almost seemed as though she were embarrassed to look at me.

Before anyone thinks of it, no she wasn't bi. to make a long story short I later learned that she was jealous. Jealous of my 265 pound body, I couldn't have even fathomed it before. It was because as gorgeous as she was she was always self conscious about her small average sized breasts and her lack of serious curvature in the hips. She was beautiful, but there were things about my body that she envied and it was a real sore spot for her.

I can't remember why I started to share this story with you. Things aren't always what they seem maybe? I know that wasn't it. I can't remember what I was trying to say. Now I just miss her.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

^^^Good post Lilly- just goes to show that, sometimes, our feelings of self-doubt are just silly


----------



## Lapwing

LillyBBBW said:


> Everybody has anxieties about their bodies. Absolutely everybody. <snip> to make a long story short I later learned that she was jealous. Jealous of my 265 pound body, I couldn't have even fathomed it before. It was because as gorgeous as she was she was always self conscious about her small average sized breasts and her lack of serious curvature in the hips. She was beautiful, but there were things about my body that she envied and it was a real sore spot for her.
> 
> I can't remember why I started to share this story with you. Things aren't always what they seem maybe? I know that wasn't it. I can't remember what I was trying to say. Now I just miss her.



Oh Lilly, that is really sad - sad for her and also for you :hugs: It's awful that we are all so wrapped up in our own insecurities no matter what size we are that it ruins relationships and the way we interact with each other. 

I can sort of see a bit of my mother in your story above. She tries so hard to keep her weight down (unsuccessfully), has spent her whole life dieting and I am here, not dieting, wearing nice clothes and taking care of my appearance even though I am fat and it maybe that it negates everything she has ever thought about her body......

Thanks for sharing, you have been really kind in replying to my posts, and your posts have given me much food for thought.....


----------



## magnoliagrows

"I'm coming out. I want the world to know. I'm gonna let it show."

That's all I can remember.  But you get the point I hope.

Lilly, I loved your story. I loved too that you ended by saying you missed her. That really touched me. I wish women were better at just loving each other and didn't let all the comparative stuff get in the way. We would be stronger I think.

Lapwing, FatGirlActivist wrote a post about her first FA. (I don't know how to do all that searching and hyperlinking stuff or I would link it here) where she talked about not being sure she was ready to be adored. It was something that really struck me because I realized that I've struggled with it too. Many of us have been conditioned to believe that we aren't worthy of love very early on because we are fat. When someone tries to love us, we don't trust it and even refuse it. We don't know how to accept it. To be honest, maybe we are afraid to accept it because when we do maybe it will disappear and then we'll be worse off than before, having let our guard down. But as Elfcat illuded to, that's a risk everyone takes in every relationship - right?

I've only been invovled with Dim for about two months or so but I can say it has changed the way I see myself and the way I see the world. This is a place where the world shouts at you that you are beautiful and desireable. Being on here with BigPlaidPants has done more for our marriage in a few weeks than three months of counseling. Cheaper too.  

Welcome and I hope you have as positive experience as I have had.


----------



## rainyday

Lapwing said:


> ...deep down I can't make myself believe that my husband really likes me fat as he was there from the start when I was thinner which is when he was originally attracted to me.



The men can speak to this more fully, but I think it is not uncommon for an FA's tastes to change with age and with it an appreciation for ever larger bodies. It could well be you were exactly the size he most desired when he met you and as his tastes have evolved and your weight has increased you still are today.

I think accepting ourselves can help bring us to a more unconditional acceptance of the partners who love us. There is a contradiction in saying to our men, "I accept all of you just as you are" but then continuing to believe that something they esteem--in this case our shape and size--is somehow wrong or bad. Letting him adore you--all of you--is a way to celebrate your acceptance of not just you but of him.

Glad you're here. Welcome to Dim.


----------



## Lapwing

> Originally Posted by *magnoliagrows*
> I've only been invovled with Dim for about two months or so but I can say it has changed the way I see myself and the way I see the world. This is a place where the world shouts at you that you are beautiful and desireable. Being on here with BigPlaidPants has done more for our marriage in a few weeks than three months of counseling. Cheaper too.
> 
> Welcome and I hope you have as positive experience as I have had.



One of the reasons I am here is due to having some serious counselling at the moment which is trying to delve into all this body image stuff. I want to be somewhere that is an environment that is nurturing to my body image rather than being out in the world where I am not the norm.....



> Originally Posted by *rainyday*
> The men can speak to this more fully, but I think it is not uncommon for an FA's tastes to change with age and with it an appreciation for ever larger bodies. It could well be you were exactly the size he most desired when he met you and as his tastes have evolved and your weight has increased you still are today.
> 
> I think accepting ourselves can help bring us to a more unconditional acceptance of the partners who love us. There is a contradiction in saying to our men, "I accept all of you just as you are" but then continuing to believe that something they esteem--in this case our shape and size--is somehow wrong or bad. Letting him adore you--all of you--is a way to celebrate your acceptance of not just you but of him.
> 
> Glad you're here. Welcome to Dim.



That is an interesting observation. Maybe he is growing in his appreciation of larger women than he liked originally. To be honest, I think I need to have a long chat with him, but it is a scary thing (for me) to bring up. It's horrible that I feel easier talking to people on the net than I do to my own husband about this issue. And it is also committing me to "coming out" as a fat woman in our relationship. I know that sounds really stupid, but it feels like an irrevocable step/threshold. Am I ready for it yet?

Thanks for the welcome both, you lot are great!


----------



## MisticalMisty

Lapwing said:


> One of the reasons I am here is due to having some serious counselling at the moment which is trying to delve into all this body image stuff. I want to be somewhere that is an environment that is nurturing to my body image rather than being out in the world where I am not the norm.....
> 
> 
> 
> That is an interesting observation. Maybe he is growing in his appreciation of larger women than he liked originally. To be honest, I think I need to have a long chat with him, but it is a scary thing (for me) to bring up. It's horrible that I feel easier talking to people on the net than I do to my own husband about this issue. And it is also committing me to "coming out" as a fat woman in our relationship. I know that sounds really stupid, but it feels like an irrevocable step/threshold. Am I ready for it yet?
> 
> Thanks for the welcome both, you lot are great!



First of all, congratulations on the counseling, I hope that you are able to take away from it what you need 

I just have a few things to add. I think sometimes it's easy to see some of the really confident women that post here and think "Wow, I really want to be like her right now." Just remember, we all have had our body image issues and we've all had to blaze our own path to self acceptance. It won't happen overnight, but you've taken the first step. Everyone's path is different, but I'm sure you are welcome to pm any of the ladies here and ask questions about how they felt or different experiences they've had.

As far as talking to your husband, I'm sure it is scary, but it sounds promising. If he's commented that he likes your new body, there probably won't be much of a coming out party..LOL Remember to do what's right for YOU.


----------



## bigplaidpants

Lapwing said:


> .....When I met my husband I could just about pass for a "normal" size, but in the ten years we have been together I have gained about 50lb and no longer fit society's "normal" standards, although I think I would probably be classed as an in-betweener on this board, much like BigPlaidPants described his wife.
> 
> So because I met my husband when I was at pretty much my thinnest as an adult, I sort of assume in my head that he wants a normal sized girl. As I have increased in size, his appreciation of my size has become more noticeable and he has become more vocal in his admiration for larger women, whereas I have become more embarrassed and inhibited because of my changing body. He appreciates my larger belly and I just feel more self conscious.
> 
> Husband has never as far as I know come onto Dimensions so doesn't know the FA terminology, but I think he would class himself as an FA. He has told me that he prefers my body now to how I was when we met and when I have challenged him as to how much weight I would have to gain for my body to be a turn off, I can see he wouldn't mind me gaining quite a lot more if it happened.



First of all LW, Welcome! Thanks for posting. You've been getting responses from some of my most favorite ladies on this board.... Anything I say, will only add to their better perspective and wisdom from the woman's pov. I by no means speak for other FA's here, but here's my thoughts....

As far as bein' a FA goes, you're husband may be feeling his own preferences out, too. I agree with rainy (I usually do). Tastes do change. I would trust what he says, unless you really have good reasons not to. 

I think I can identify a bit with your picture of him. I can imagine how a man might marry a "normal-sized" woman, but grow very much into or "discover" liking her larger...and even her gaining weight! Not all FA's experience it this way. But, some of us, I think, come to accepting and understanding our sense of fat eroticism not unlike fat/large women have to come to accept their bodies. Our love for the larger figure, or even the erotics of gaining, has to be mirrored or presented to us in some positive light or acceptable way for the force of our own social/moral training to relent a bit and let our desires have reign. I mean, imagine discovering after years of seemingly "normal" sexual desires that you're really getting into your partner's fat body. Imaging experiencing new heights of eroticism or desire in her fuller softer sensuousness....or having occasional fantasies about her gaining even more. Without knowing that such a sense of fat/size eroticism exists or knowing of other FA's who can identify with you, a conscientious unassuming man might not just come out with such fantasies and desires. They might feel friggin weird. (All the common tapes get played: "Is it bad to want her more fatter?"; "Am I just the opposite of the jerk who always nags his wife about her weight?"; "What about her health?"; "I mean, it's her body...") 

I, for one, have deep respect (not positive regard, mind you) for the power of repression. It has many sources. I also have deep respect for people's ability to live with a distorted or repressed sense of their own desires. The erotic, in my view, is kind of that way. I needs managing to some degree. We almost all live with an erotic self, discovered or not. And, we are socialized because, if we would let our sense of the erotic run free, many of us would be hedonists!

Anyway, my points is, I think you might trust him at his word. He very well might find your newfound belly bulge quite a turn on, or the softer feel of your body's sensuousness something he no longer wants to be without. Like rainy alludes to, in the end, I don't believe that there is any eroticism that "stays put." While it might always have a theme (like fat with FA's), that doesn't mean it doesn't change or develop. Regardless, the first step in anyone's sense of the erotic is just "coming out." And, in my experience, having a relationship where each other's understanding of erotic tastes grows and reshapes is not only exciting. It is as a demanding as rewarding part of a long-term relationship.



> But I have a problem. Because when I met him, he wasn't an "out" FA and I was a conventionally "normal" size, I sort of can't get my head to believe him. I always wished for an out and out FA who would put it out there that he liked me fat and appreciated my size right from the get-go whereas I can't get my head round it to feel that my husband's admiration is real because he started going out with me when I was smaller and could "pass" in society.
> 
> My husband and I never really talk very much about my size, I have never really discussed how I feel with him (or anyone really) as to be honest, I am embarrassed about being fat because of deep seated messages ingrained into me by my parents, especially my mother who has "struggled" with her weight all her life.



For years, I curtailed alot of my comments about my wife's size because it brought extreme attention to something that I realized was a life-long struggle for her: her body. I knew I had always like bigger, fuller, more shapely women. She knew it to. But, out of my love and respect for her and the love we shared, I didn't overwhelm her with talk about it. 

Some of us FA's can be a bit obsessive.  



> I wish that I could let myself be happy with what I am and stop feeling self conscious about what I _think_ other people think and let my "sort-of" FA husband shower attention onto me which is what he wants to do, but at the moment I feel uncomfortable with. I just want to believe him when he tells me he loves my body as well as everything else! This is one of the reasons to have joined Dimensions, to try and improve my self esteem by being with people like yourselves.
> 
> I do apologise for the rather confused and rambling posting, and I hope that it is a least slightly appropriate for this thread. As a newbie I have rather a lot of stuff going round in my head, so please let me know if this is an inappropriate post. Thanks for listening



It goes w/o saying, but I found nothing you wrote to be either confused or rambling. 

These are just my .02. And, I too, welcome, any more pm's (private messages) for specific questions or conversationing. Either way, blessings in your counseling work!!!


----------



## stan_der_man

Lapwing said:


> As a n00b on the Forum I want to say thanks to all the posters on this thread for enlightening me in the ways of FAs, some of which I feel is pertinent to my life at the moment.
> ...
> I wish that I could let myself be happy with what I am and stop feeling self conscious about what I _think_ other people think and let my "sort-of" FA husband shower attention onto me which is what he wants to do, but at the moment I feel uncomfortable with. I just want to believe him when he tells me he loves my body as well as everything else! This is one of the reasons to have joined Dimensions, to try and improve my self esteem by being with people like yourselves.
> 
> I do apologise for the rather confused and rambling posting, and I hope that it is a least slightly appropriate for this thread. As a newbie I have rather a lot of stuff going round in my head, so please let me know if this is an inappropriate post. Thanks for listening



I also would like to welcome you to the Dim forums Lapwing! I think you have discovered a place that will help you become more comfortable with yourself as a BBW and your husband as a FA; many of the people here have gone through the same thing that you and your husband are and will be experiencing. No worries, I don't think your post was rambling or confusing!

I think the most difficult thing about this whole BBW and FA thing is that it goes counter to what our society, parents, peers, etc. say is the "norm", and a person doesn’t realize how difficult it is to change their thinking to something that counters the “norm” until they have to do it themselves and deal with the repercussions socially and emotionally. It also can be a delicate situation in a person’s intimate relationship with their significant other. It sounds like that is what you are dealing with now. 

Not intending to trivialize what you are going through in dealing with your body image situation… I always think of it as the “caterpillar to butterfly” stage; when a large woman discovers that she really is the beautiful “butterfly” and that others consider her to be beautiful. It is a complete change of perspective in one’s life, especially if it is sudden. As long as you are able to find supportive people, your comfort level and happiness with yourself will improve over time.



MisticalMisty said:


> ...
> As far as talking to your husband, I'm sure it is scary, but it sounds promising. If he's commented that he likes your new body, there probably won't be much of a coming out party..LOL Remember to do what's right for YOU.



I think MisticalMisty summed it up perfectly… From what you write Lapwing, it sounds like your husband is a good guy and loves you as you are. Maybe along the way somewhere, he discovered he was attracted to “more” of you, and very much so. It may be as simple as that; it doesn’t sound like he even knew the term “FA”. Having a good talk with him about your feelings and how he may feel is always a good thing, and you certainly should do that, but I wouldn’t overanalyze the situation either. I know as a FA, I it really wears on me having my preference “analyzed” constantly. Many FAs are just average guys who happen to like some softness in their lives…

fa_man_stan


----------



## Tad

Welcome, Lapwing--or re-welcome, since you were here long ago. I'm afraid that while the name English Girl seems vaguely familiar it is generic enough in sound that I don't remember any specifics. Anyway, I was around back then, although I may have posting as Tad at the time. There are a few others still around from back then too--do you remember any names of people that you talked to back then? 

Also I'm curious, it sounds like back then you were, as you put it, normal sized (although it sounds like you were on the upper end of it). What was it that interested you in Dimensions back then? 



Lapwing said:


> Maybe he is growing in his appreciation of larger women than he liked originally. To be honest, I think I need to have a long chat with him, but it is a scary thing (for me) to bring up. It's horrible that I feel easier talking to people on the net than I do to my own husband about this issue. And it is also committing me to "coming out" as a fat woman in our relationship. I know that sounds really stupid, but it feels like an irrevocable step/threshold. Am I ready for it yet?



That could be. Another possibility, which was particularly common long enough ago that fewer people were online. He may have always been most attracted to BBW, but is also attracted to you at any size, and fell for you as an overall person. I speak of this from experience, it is exactly what happened with my wife and I. Like you she gained a fair bit of weight while we were going out, but has had difficulty getting totally comfortable in that regard. Your description of your husbands reactions and words sounds SO much like mine that I really wonder if this is the case with him. 

I get the difficulty in 'coming out as a fat woman.' To say 'yes I enjoy my size and welcome you to enjoy my size' does imply saying 'yes, I'm fat.' Since you've been told that is a bad thing your whole life, that is not easy.

BUT

You know he's always been attracted to you. You can sometimes feel your body is pretty sexy right now. Imagine how nice it would feel to look at yourself in the mirror, say "damn I look hot" and have him emphatically agreeing? Or for that matter to be able to tease him and make him all hot and bothered with your stomach or hips, just by emphising their curves and softness? Would you not enjoy him planting kisses all over your belly?

I also totally understand not feeling comfortable around the office with all the super-sporty types. May I make a suggestion, maybe you need to find some physical activity that you enjoy, and get doing it. NOT for weight loss* but rather for the triple benefits of feeling better, taking good care of your body, and giving people something to know about you other than your weight. To elaborate on that last point, your activity will be doubly noticed because people don't expect it from someone of your size, and therefore modest amounts can really change people's perceptions. People will even enjoy telling about your activity, because it is a surprise; 'You may not think it of her, but she spends hours gardening each weekend / walks a mile from the bus to work every day / swims regularly / etc.' 

* Not only do you not do it for weight loss, it tends to increase your appetite (you are burning more calories) so you can enjoy more food! Also, this could even be a way to raise the issue with your husband. Explain "I really want to start getting more active. I think it would be good for me, body and mind. But don't worry, I'm not going on a diet or trying to lose weight, so these curves are here to stay. I guess I'll just have to eat more." If he then hauls you off to bed at the soonest opportunity I think you would be pretty safe on the assumption that he is a full blown FA 

Anyway, I'm glad you found your way back to Dimensions, and I hope we hear lots more from you!

Regards;

-Ed


----------



## Tad

Another thought I had, after it was too late to edit my post:

How do you feel about your husbands size, and how does he feel about it? If the feelings are not symmetrical about your size and his size, that can be an added stress. It is OK if that is the case, we don't have to be consistent in everything, but it is good to be very clear where we are not consistent.

-Ed


----------



## Lapwing

So many replies to my comments, thanks all for answering my questions and posing some more. I'll do my best to reply to some of them here (as it's Monday I've not had the luxury of sitting at the computer all day cruising the Forums, much as I would love to!) 



MisticalMisty said:


> I think sometimes it's easy to see some of the really confident women that post here and think "Wow, I really want to be like her right now." Just remember, we all have had our body image issues and we've all had to blaze our own path to self acceptance. It won't happen overnight, but you've taken the first step.



Thanks Misty, that has to be some of the most sensible advice I've had for ages - just like anything worth having, accepting myself for what I am is going to take some head-work even though I want it all right now!



bigplaidpants said:


> Regardless, the first step in anyone's sense of the erotic is just "coming out." And, in my experience, having a relationship where each other's understanding of erotic tastes grows and reshapes is not only exciting. It is as a demanding as rewarding part of a long-term relationship.



BPP - thanks for your really interesting post on the nature of your FA-dom and the nature of how people's tastes can grow and change (no pun intended). I am particularly taken with your quote above -


> the first step in anyone's sense of the erotic is just "coming out."


 I don't feel like I have done this and I am therefore possibly not being truthful in my relationship and not giving it the attention that it deserves which means that it has stagnated somewhat and isn't growing like it should be. The relationship spark is hidden at the moment to be honest and this is one of the reasons I am reaching out to a resource like Dimensions as I need something to kick us back into (sexual) life. Or something  



fa_man_stan said:


> I think the most difficult thing about this whole BBW and FA thing is that it goes counter to what our society, parents, peers, etc. say is the "norm", and a person doesnt realize how difficult it is to change their thinking to something that counters the norm until they have to do it themselves and deal with the repercussions socially and emotionally. It also can be a delicate situation in a persons intimate relationship with their significant other. It sounds like that is what you are dealing with now.



That is so true, and going against the norm is very hard, although I have much less trouble with being "alternative" in other parts of my life, in fact I revel in being a rebel as far as other aspects of my lifestyle and friends go. I do wonder why the fat/weight aspect is so hard compared to other awkward views I hold (and I hold some *very* awkward views on some stuff!!) and why I have swallowed whole the untruths put about by the media/society and my parents. I feel like I have been brainwashed. 



fa_man_stan said:


> ...it sounds like your husband is a good guy and loves you as you are. Maybe along the way somewhere, he discovered he was attracted to more of you, and very much so. It may be as simple as that; it doesnt sound like he even knew the term FA. Having a good talk with him about your feelings and how he may feel is always a good thing, and you certainly should do that, but I wouldnt overanalyze the situation either. I know as a FA, I it really wears on me having my preference analyzed constantly. Many FAs are just average guys who happen to like some softness in their lives



I think you are probably right that DH isn't very clued up about the scene. I think he just knows what he likes, and as far as he's concerned, that is me (although he likes the UK actress Liza Tarbuck a lot too!!)

Good point about not over-analysing the FA thing. I suppose that there is a sort of fascination about this fabled species of man that isn't supposed to exist in real life, so when you meet/interact with one, you want to know the why, why, why of the reasons for the FA-ness of the man. But yes, I suppose it ends up "objectifying" (not sure if this is the right word) the FA just for their preferences when all you want to be is with someone you like! 



edx said:


> Welcome, Lapwing--or re-welcome, since you were here long ago. I'm afraid that while the name English Girl seems vaguely familiar it is generic enough in sound that I don't remember any specifics. Anyway, I was around back then, although I may have posting as Tad at the time. There are a few others still around from back then too--do you remember any names of people that you talked to back then?
> 
> Also I'm curious, it sounds like back then you were, as you put it, normal sized (although it sounds like you were on the upper end of it). What was it that interested you in Dimensions back then?



Now therein lies a story. I had always been told as a child/teenager that fat people were unattractive and ugly and didn't succeed in life, didn't have partners etc etc (the usual bullshit). I was a relatively fat child who was put on my first diet at about 7 which obviously didn't work. I was told I was fat all the time until I was 16 and when I went on an "eat nothing at all" diet and lost a lot of weight and became a more "acceptable" size and got lots of praise for it from my relations and friends. 

However, I always had a fascination with fat people (including myself) as the "forbidden" and therefore fascinating and interesting and sexy. I wanted to know more. Pre-internet, I devoured anti-diet and positive body image books (e.g. "Being Fat is not a Sin" (Bovey) "You don't have to diet", "Womansize" (Chernin) etc). I also got involved in body-image workshops at my first university where I had inevitably gained weight after leaving home and not having my eating watched by my mother. 

Anyway in 1996 I had just gone to university to do postgraduate research and I discovered the internet for the first time. I wanted to see what other people thought about fat women so in October 1996 I think I typed "Fat women" into AltaVista or the like and I got the "Women en large" website which is a collection of fat nude photos by Laurie Edison. Comments on this website led to Marylin Wann's Fat? So! website and its Wall of Weight which inevitably led to a nascent Dimensions site. At Dimensions I was literally like a kid in a sweetshop, Wilson Barbers Stories, Melanie Bell, the Weight Room, and strong big women role models like SirenSong CindyG, TaurusVixen even Danni. And to be honest, the stories turned me on, and I still can't work out whether that is bacause I'm an FA or a closet gainer or whether it's because it involves FAs enjoying being with fat women and showering attention on them or whether it is that "forbidden is sexy" aspect again.

And yes Tad I remember you, I think we even participated in some threads on the old board together - you were a prolific poster whereas I wasn't. I corresponded with PaulFA (I think he also registered later as BraveUK) for ages 'cos he was in the UK and we had other stuff in common. We were going to meet up, but then I met the man who is now my husband and felt that I couldn't run two relationships and ended up chosing the most "real", i.e. the one that was happening in real life rather than on the net.

So then I got a job and left Uni and didn't have so much access to the net (certainly not onto Dimensions through my employers web access!) and I stopped being involved and reading the boards and the "real" world of stick thin role models impinged on my life. For three years I had felt sexy and attractive but pretty much as soon as I lost my connection with the world of size acceptance, I lost my confidence. A few random insults here and snide comments from my mother there and I was back to being 16 and needing to diet again.

And through all this, I have never told my husband about Dimensions because I am embarrassed. So what the hell is going on here?



edx said:


> Another possibility, which was particularly common long enough ago that fewer people were online. He may have always been most attracted to BBW, but is also attracted to you at any size, and fell for you as an overall person. I speak of this from experience, it is exactly what happened with my wife and I. Like you she gained a fair bit of weight while we were going out, but has had difficulty getting totally comfortable in that regard. Your description of your husbands reactions and words sounds SO much like mine that I really wonder if this is the case with him.



Yes, you may very well be right here. He has admitted that he and a friend from school used to go clubbing in Manchester and check out all the large women and point them out to each other. It's just I don't think he has ever found resources like Dimensions so has never found the world that I was in when I met him.




edx said:


> I get the difficulty in 'coming out as a fat woman.' To say 'yes I enjoy my size and welcome you to enjoy my size' does imply saying 'yes, I'm fat.' Since you've been told that is a bad thing your whole life, that is not easy.
> 
> BUT
> 
> You know he's always been attracted to you. You can sometimes feel your body is pretty sexy right now. Imagine how nice it would feel to look at yourself in the mirror, say "damn I look hot" and have him emphatically agreeing? Or for that matter to be able to tease him and make him all hot and bothered with your stomach or hips, just by emphising their curves and softness? Would you not enjoy him planting kisses all over your belly?



I would love to do this, but I just feel so inhibited like its wrong to enjoy myslef - maybe its just good ol' fashioned prudery on my part  rather than shame about my body. I've got all this stuff (see my text above!!) going round in my head and none of it comes out physically.




edx said:


> I also totally understand not feeling comfortable around the office with all the super-sporty types. May I make a suggestion, maybe you need to find some physical activity that you enjoy, and get doing it. NOT for weight loss* but rather for the triple benefits of feeling better, taking good care of your body, and giving people something to know about you other than your weight.



Ahh, now I do already do some regular activity like pilates every week and I also have two dogs that I walk on a regular basis, and I walk pretty much everywhere in town as it's quite small. So although I don't do any aerobic classes as such, I am pretty active, and with said sporty friends, I can do walks with them - it's just I am slow. I managed a 10 mile walk last week on holiday which I am particularly proud of as I have back problems which had me laid up for ten days 8 weeks ago. And in the summer I do try to cycle to work a couple of times a week.



edx said:


> How do you feel about your husbands size, and how does he feel about it? If the feelings are not symmetrical about your size and his size, that can be an added stress. It is OK if that is the case, we don't have to be consistent in everything, but it is good to be very clear where we are not consistent.



This is the worst question of the lot. I don't particularly like his weight gain which makes me feel like a real cow. Here I am blethering on about size acceptance and I can't accept him for what he is  He hates his new shape too, which is all belly and nothing else. When I met him, he wasn't small, and having been out with thin men, I have to say I prefer chunky men, but husband has gained a lot in the past three years due to a sedentary job involving a lot of driving and eating junk food through boredom. We are both hoping that a new job that he is starting next month will lead to a change in eating/behaviour as he'll be working near home so can go home for lunch rather than eating pies and not doing stupidly long drives all the time which also leads to boredom eating of junk food.

Anyway, thats me done for now, sorry about the excessinve length of the post :blink:


----------



## Tad

Lapwing said:


> This is the worst question of the lot. I don't particularly like his weight gain which makes me feel like a real cow. Here I am blethering on about size acceptance and I can't accept him for what he is  He hates his new shape too, which is all belly and nothing else. When I met him, he wasn't small, and having been out with thin men, I have to say I prefer chunky men, but husband has gained a lot in the past three years due to a sedentary job involving a lot of driving and eating junk food through boredom. We are both hoping that a new job that he is starting next month will lead to a change in eating/behaviour as he'll be working near home so can go home for lunch rather than eating pies and not doing stupidly long drives all the time which also leads to boredom eating of junk food.



Thanks for the great post! I love long, thoughtful, posts 

I'm just going to address one small part of it, about your husbands weight.

If you have not done so, I would really suggest breaking down what you don't like about his weight gain. Or more precisely, what parts are making you feel what ways. I'm not saying you have to post it all here, but I think it is worth doing.

I have no idea what various things you might dislike about it. Im just going to throw out a bunch of examples, but Im sure there are others, and other ways of looking or dividing some of the issues Im mentioning here. Anyway, some of these may apply, some surely wont, but hopefully it gives you a starting point for analyzing your own feelings in this regard.

Is it the shape he has taken? If he had put on the fat differently, do you think youd be happier with him at this weight?

Is it a fitness thing, or perceived fitness thing, or actual/perceived strength thing? That is, does it feel to you (emphasis on feel) like he is less fit, strong, powerful, and hence less physically capable? If so, if he got fitter and stronger but stayed just as fat, would that be apt to change how you feel?

Is it simple esthetic preference? That is, are there no cultural or emotional overtones, simply that you dont like the look?

Does it make him feel less virile to you?

Does it make him feel less manly to you? Fat makes him softer and curvier, to you are those feminine properties that are not attractive in your partner?

Is it a virtue thing? That is, do you still feel at some level he is fat because he is not being virtuous (watching his eating and exercise, etc) and fat is a visible reminder of that? That he is letting himself go, and not doing his best to look good for you?

Is it a question of what others think? Do you feel bothered because his weight makes him seem less of a catch to others?

Does it make you feel less confident in his liking you fatter? That maybe he is content with you gaining weight just because then you cant complain about his gaining weight, so all his accepting comments are maybe not sincere?

Does it make you feel worried for the future, that hell keep getting fatter, until it really impacts your joint lifestyle?

Does it make you feel like maybe he likes his own fat as much as yours, and that is a scary thing?

Like I said, I dont expect to see your answers, but I really suggest you get your head clear on this front. Once we understand specifically what our feelings and thoughts on various subjects are then I think we usually start behaving in a more rational way. It is the half glimpsed things that we are afraid of looking at clearly or which we are trying to avoid dealing with that lead us to the screwiest behavior, I think.

Two final comments on this topic: First, if you want to talk about this part of things more, I wonder if it should get split into its own thread, perhaps on the main board (the whole issue of asymmetrical FA-ism is one that weve never really dealt with in detail, and probably should). Second, I focused on this small part of your whole message because it felt like, oh, hard to put it in exact words, but like it is one area that youve not figured yourself out on as much as the others, so that it might become a drag on the other areas progressing more, or something like that.

And finally, sorry to pester/nag! I hope this was more help than annoyance.

regards;
-Ed


----------



## bigplaidpants

edx said:


> Thanks for the great post! I love long, thoughtful, posts
> 
> I'm just going to address one small part of it, about your husbands weight.
> 
> If you have not done so, I would really suggest breaking down what you don't like about his weight gain. Or more precisely, what parts are making you feel what ways. I'm not saying you have to post it all here, but I think it is worth doing.
> 
> I have no idea what various things you might dislike about it. Im just going to throw out a bunch of examples, but Im sure there are others, and other ways of looking or dividing some of the issues Im mentioning here. Anyway, some of these may apply, some surely wont, but hopefully it gives you a starting point for analyzing your own feelings in this regard.
> 
> Is it the shape he has taken? If he had put on the fat differently, do you think youd be happier with him at this weight?
> 
> Is it a fitness thing, or perceived fitness thing, or actual/perceived strength thing? That is, does it feel to you (emphasis on feel) like he is less fit, strong, powerful, and hence less physically capable? If so, if he got fitter and stronger but stayed just as fat, would that be apt to change how you feel?
> 
> Is it simple esthetic preference? That is, are there no cultural or emotional overtones, simply that you dont like the look?
> 
> Does it make him feel less virile to you?
> 
> Does it make him feel less manly to you? Fat makes him softer and curvier, to you are those feminine properties that are not attractive in your partner?
> 
> Is it a virtue thing? That is, do you still feel at some level he is fat because he is not being virtuous (watching his eating and exercise, etc) and fat is a visible reminder of that? That he is letting himself go, and not doing his best to look good for you?
> 
> Is it a question of what others think? Do you feel bothered because his weight makes him seem less of a catch to others?
> 
> Does it make you feel less confident in his liking you fatter? That maybe he is content with you gaining weight just because then you cant complain about his gaining weight, so all his accepting comments are maybe not sincere?
> 
> Does it make you feel worried for the future, that hell keep getting fatter, until it really impacts your joint lifestyle?
> 
> Does it make you feel like maybe he likes his own fat as much as yours, and that is a scary thing?
> 
> Like I said, I dont expect to see your answers, but I really suggest you get your head clear on this front. Once we understand specifically what our feelings and thoughts on various subjects are then I think we usually start behaving in a more rational way. It is the half glimpsed things that we are afraid of looking at clearly or which we are trying to avoid dealing with that lead us to the screwiest behavior, I think.
> 
> Two final comments on this topic: First, if you want to talk about this part of things more, I wonder if it should get split into its own thread, perhaps on the main board (the whole issue of asymmetrical FA-ism is one that weve never really dealt with in detail, and probably should). Second, I focused on this small part of your whole message because it felt like, oh, hard to put it in exact words, but like it is one area that youve not figured yourself out on as much as the others, so that it might become a drag on the other areas progressing more, or something like that.
> 
> And finally, sorry to pester/nag! I hope this was more help than annoyance.
> 
> regards;
> -Ed



Ed....I can't edit your post down. What a thought-provoking and well stated set of questions. Your probes, here, are astute, IMO. You get at many of the conceptual/intangible "trailers" that attach themselves to fat and fat bodies. You are obviously someone who's spent some time with the subject.  

I'd like to hear more about what you mean by asymmetrical FA-ism.

Peace....


----------



## Tad

bigplaidpants said:


> I'd like to hear more about what you mean by asymmetrical FA-ism.
> 
> .



To be honest I use that term a little loosely, to cover two related things:

1) We don't all like fat equally on everyone (some like being fat but don't want a fat partner, others want a fat partner but don't want to be fat, some want to be fat and want a fat partner, but would never want their kids to be fat, etc).

2) When both members of a relationship are some degree of fat, and only one of them is an admirer of fat on the other.

Of course both fat and FA-ism can come in degrees. If one partner is 200 pounds and the other 400, the assymetry could be the 200 pound partner wishing that the 400 pound parnter was only 200 pounds, or it could be the 400 pound parnter wishing that the 200 pound partner was only 130 pounds. 

Whatever the details, it is an added twist to the already challenging FA/bigfolk relationships. If a skinny FA is with a big person, and the big person is most attracted to skinny people but enjoys being fat, there is no assymetry--but there can still be all sorts of issues about message from partner versus society, being a fat person in our society, influence of family, and so on. This gets discussed on Dimensions a fair bit.

But when both partners are fat, to some degree or other, and only one is an FA (or admirer of the size that the other partner is), this makes it that much more complicated. Trying to say "Yes, I like being fat and appreciate that you love my size, but by the way I think you need to lose weight" is going to strike most of us as hypocritical. But is it really, when that is how preferences are?

So that is what I mean by the term, and why I think it matters. If I start going into more detail I may need that pagination you talked about in a different post, so I'll leave it here for now.

A final discalimer: my thinking on this subject is no doubt colored by the fact that I'm a full blown FA, and am now as fat as my wife, while my wife at most prefers solidly built guys. So the assymetry is very much part of my life.

-Ed


----------



## Lapwing

edx said:


> Thanks for the great post! I love long, thoughtful, posts
> 
> I'm just going to address one small part of it, about your husbands weight.
> 
> If you have not done so, I would really suggest breaking down what you don't like about his weight gain. Or more precisely, what parts are making you feel what ways. I'm not saying you have to post it all here, but I think it is worth doing.
> 
> <snippety snip>
> 
> And finally, sorry to pester/nag! I hope this was more help than annoyance.
> 
> regards;
> -Ed



I'm going to have to be quick here as I'm off to a Pilates class.... I think the main reason why I have become less comfortable with how he looks is that it has ALL gone to his belly and it really does make him look like he is 7 or 8 months pregnant, like a big hard round beach-ball. And I think that this makes me feel really odd, like, I'm married to a pregnant man :blink: And this also has to be seen within context of the fact that I have issues with pregnancy myself (a fear of becoming pregnant/having kids myself, yes I am odd, why do you ask?  )

I have no problem per-se with fat men, and I think if he'd gained the weight all over and less disproportionately rather than just in his stomach, I wouldn't even consider it a problem at all. Even if he'd got more flabby in the stomach, that wouldn't have been an issue either, probably quite nice, but it's the fact is hard and sticks out so much, it's a bit wierd and I find it hard to deal with.

More later, thanks for the rather challenging post!


----------



## RedVelvet

Oh..this is hard...

I am a fat woman who likes thin to slightly thickish/muscular men....That is my preference...that is what I am attracted to, body wize.

My ex gained...something like 50 pounds over the course of our years together.....changed his face radically..and suddenly there was this big tummy.

I gained 5 pounds..and my hair got longer...so my looks didnt change.

I hate to admit this..I do...but MAN, I loved his old face..he was so handsome!

The new face is thick and...nice looking..but he was gorgeous before...

..and I felt like SUCH a shite for feeling that way.....such a hypocrite.....and no, of course..I said nothing to him..that is something for him to work out..and I still loved him...and in the long run...it didnt matter....

But man....I missed his old face.....and yes....YES....to my great and painful SHAME I .........wasnt as proud to have him on my arm as I had been in the past...and yes...I was not as sexually attracted to him.....

The rocks can start now.......hell....I'll give you some..


----------



## MisticalMisty

RedVelvet said:


> Oh..this is hard...
> 
> I am a fat woman who likes thin to slightly thickish/muscular men....That is my preference...that is what I am attracted to, body wize.
> 
> My ex gained...something like 50 pounds over the course of our years together.....changed his face radically..and suddenly there was this big tummy.
> 
> I gained 5 pounds..and my hair got longer...so my looks didnt change.
> 
> I hate to admit this..I do...but MAN, I loved his old face..he was so handsome!
> 
> The new face is thick and...nice looking..but he was gorgeous before...
> 
> ..and I felt like SUCH a shite for feeling that way.....such a hypocrite.....and no, of course..I said nothing to him..that is something for him to work out..and I still loved him...and in the long run...it didnt matter....
> 
> But man....I missed his old face.....and yes....YES....to my great and painful SHAME I .........wasnt as proud to have him on my arm as I had been in the past...and yes...I was not as sexually attracted to him.....
> 
> The rocks can start now.......hell....I'll give you some..


I'm not going to throw rocks Red, but I am interested in why you think it's hypocritical?


----------



## AnnMarie

RedVelvet said:


> Oh..this is hard...
> 
> I am a fat woman who likes thin to slightly thickish/muscular men....That is my preference...that is what I am attracted to, body wize.
> 
> My ex gained...something like 50 pounds over the course of our years together.....changed his face radically..and suddenly there was this big tummy.
> 
> I gained 5 pounds..and my hair got longer...so my looks didnt change.
> 
> I hate to admit this..I do...but MAN, I loved his old face..he was so handsome!
> 
> The new face is thick and...nice looking..but he was gorgeous before...
> 
> ..and I felt like SUCH a shite for feeling that way.....such a hypocrite.....and no, of course..I said nothing to him..that is something for him to work out..and I still loved him...and in the long run...it didnt matter....
> 
> But man....I missed his old face.....and yes....YES....to my great and painful SHAME I .........wasnt as proud to have him on my arm as I had been in the past...and yes...I was not as sexually attracted to him.....
> 
> The rocks can start now.......hell....I'll give you some..



NO rocks should be thrown. You're being honest about something that is very hard to be honest about. You said yourself you still loved him, but it made the attraction different... that's a fact, Jack!! Obviously moderate changes are tolerable and expected, and you rolled with it just fine... that's how it goes. If he'd gained another 50 I suspect it would have gotten more acute, and would have caused even more issues for you. 

That's what we're talking about here... degrees of change and acceptance. Bravo for being honest... it doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you REAL and honest.


----------



## RedVelvet

Thank you......very much indeed....

:batting:


----------



## RedVelvet

MisticalMisty said:


> I'm not going to throw rocks Red, but I am interested in why you think it's hypocritical?




I think its hypocritical because I would hope he would find me beautiful regardless of how my body changed, if it did....which is of course....unfair.

....Of course...I still found him handsome...I mean jeez..the man is an Alec Baldwin lookalike...he's handsome as hell.

...it just...changed.

..and ..well..now he is my ex, cuz he's a fucktard...but thats another story.


----------



## MisticalMisty

RedVelvet said:


> I think its hypocritical because I would hope he would find me beautiful regardless of how my body changed, if it did....which is of course....unfair.
> 
> ....Of course...I still found him handsome...
> 
> ...it just...changed.



Thanks for the explanation. I wasn't sure if that's what you meant..of you meant you were being hypocritical, because as a big woman you should like big men.... I had someone tell me once I was being a hypocrite because I'm not attracted to really big guys...

You like what you like is what I say and I have to echo AnnMarie. Kudos for you for being so upfront and honest about a really difficult subject.


----------



## RedVelvet

MisticalMisty said:


> Thanks for the explanation. I wasn't sure if that's what you meant..of you meant you were being hypocritical, because as a big woman you should like big men.... I had someone tell me once I was being a hypocrite because I'm not attracted to really big guys...
> 
> You like what you like is what I say and I have to echo AnnMarie. Kudos for you for being so upfront and honest about a really difficult subject.



Well thank you, m'dear....

YEs..I agree..there is this REALLY rather moronic idea out there that if you are big, you are...hm..."supposed" to be attracted to someone your own size?...and if you arent..you are bad..

Thats..bullshite..

Everyone gets to like what they like...I dont think less of men who are not attracted to me...(ok..I think they are blind, but thats just my towering ego (wink) ...)....and I like what I like...which is, handsome men....or rather what I see as such.


----------



## bigplaidpants

RedVelvet said:


> Oh..this is hard...
> 
> I am a fat woman who likes thin to slightly thickish/muscular men....That is my preference...that is what I am attracted to, body wize.
> 
> My ex gained...something like 50 pounds over the course of our years together.....changed his face radically..and suddenly there was this big tummy.
> 
> I gained 5 pounds..and my hair got longer...so my looks didnt change.
> 
> I hate to admit this..I do...but MAN, I loved his old face..he was so handsome!
> 
> The new face is thick and...nice looking..but he was gorgeous before...
> 
> ..and I felt like SUCH a shite for feeling that way.....such a hypocrite.....and no, of course..I said nothing to him..that is something for him to work out..and I still loved him...and in the long run...it didnt matter....
> 
> But man....I missed his old face.....and yes....YES....to my great and painful SHAME I .........wasnt as proud to have him on my arm as I had been in the past...and yes...I was not as sexually attracted to him.....
> 
> The rocks can start now.......hell....I'll give you some..



RedVelvet, I feel a bit awkward butting in on girl talk (i.e. AM's and MM's response), but I want to join. Your confession is a breath of fresh air....I, too, give you kudos for your honesty. For one, it helps balance out some of the flack FA's get for acknowledging their preference.

I completely emphathize with the shame about your feelings (i.e. interpreting the throw rocks thing). I feel like I was born to forcably live under the banner love = looks don't matter. And, to some degree, this will forever be true about love. But, in the throes of love and attraction, attraction, too, matters.

I hope my attempt to validate you isn't too off point. For my wife and I, the weight issue isn't quite the same, but the point of preference is. My wife/partner doesn't like me too soft, either. We've been together 12 years, and I've always been 6'1" and around 210-235lb. 

Besides my minor weight fluxuations, at one point my wife let me know that she liked my body better harder than softer. To be specific, she liked it better when I was working in the hydrolics factory than later studying in grad school.  My weight wasn't a huge difference itself, but I looked and felt different to her. When I was working in the factory 10 hours a day swinging heavy metal parts around, my body was proportioned different. The physical work affected my whole body: the way my face looked, my belly, my shoulders/chest, arms and hands. She gave no ultimatums. She just was much more attracted to me rougher, firmer....just like I was more attracted to her the fatter/bigger she was. So, as a part of our "play," we trade push-ups & sit-ups for brownies/cookies, etc. She makes me get my exercise everyday.  

TMI? Hope not. None of this gets obsessive....it's just part of the fun of keeping the erotic alive in our relationship together. I share it simply to empathize with you. There _is _a place for your preference in a relationship. I hope more women are beginning to feel the freedom to express theirs too!  Handling how your preference affects the dynamic between love and attraction is different for every couple and every relationship. 

<moves hands in a gentle fashion closer to RV>

Here's your rocks back.


----------



## Tad

RedVelvet said:


> The rocks can start now.......hell....I'll give you some..



Rocks? Absolutely!

RedVelvet rocks! :bow: 

Great post, thank you for your openness and honesty. and, umm, after that Mysty and AM and Mr.Pants have pretty much covered it.

Oh, wait, I do have something else to say after all. Sometimes fat admiration likes to camoflage itself under the size acceptance banner, but they are not the same. Just because you would not discriminate based on size, put someone down for their size, etc, does not mean you are attracted to fat people.

I think it would be hypocritical as a big person to expect acceptance of your size but not to extend size acceptance to other big people. However if you are big, if you are receiving fat admiration, that in no way implies that you have to admire fat yourself. Fat admiration is a preference, and we all have our preferences. Size acceptance is a matter of respect, and is reasonable to expect.

I know when I was younger, especially before finding the online size acceptance and fat admiration community, I tended to confound the two--I had not really seen either, but had both myself, so assumed that they went together. That led me to a number of unfounded assumptions. I try to keep them very distinct in my head now.

-Ed


----------



## RedVelvet

An excellent point!...OF COURSE I am all about size acceptance...most definitely....and would fight like hell to help anyone I could get the same rights and respect as anyone else...

I am.....not a fat admirer...well...maybe a little....plump girls are hot to me..hotter than thin ones...so..yeah...a nice little layer of fat on a woman's body is sexy as fuck to me...

so..um...

OK..

This is interesting....because it brings up something else you asked, edx!...

YES....I think of fat as feminine!...I cant help it!

I like hard boys and soft girls...

I also like gender roles, and I identify as a submissive in the BDSM world....so..its all wrapped up in that for me as well..

Fuck, this is interesting stuff!


----------



## RedVelvet

bigplaidpants said:


> RedVelvet, I feel a bit awkward butting in on girl talk (i.e. AM's and MM's response), but I want to join. Your confession is a breath of fresh air....I, too, give you kudos for your honesty. For one, it helps balance out some of the flack FA's get for acknowledging their preference.
> 
> I completely emphathize with the shame about your feelings (i.e. interpreting the throw rocks thing). I feel like I was born to forcably live under the banner love = looks don't matter. And, to some degree, this will forever be true about love. But, in the throes of love and attraction, attraction, too, matters.
> 
> I hope my attempt to validate you isn't too off point. For my wife and I, the weight issue isn't quite the same, but the point of preference is. My wife/partner doesn't like me too soft, either. We've been together 12 years, and I've always been 6'1" and around 210-235lb.
> 
> Besides my minor weight fluxuations, at one point my wife let me know that she liked my body better harder than softer. To be specific, she liked it better when I was working in the hydrolics factory than later studying in grad school.  My weight wasn't a huge difference itself, but I looked and felt different to her. When I was working in the factory 10 hours a day swinging heavy metal parts around, my body was proportioned different. The physical work affected my whole body: the way my face looked, my belly, my shoulders/chest, arms and hands. She gave no ultimatums. She just was much more attracted to me rougher, firmer....just like I was more attracted to her the fatter/bigger she was. So, as a part of our "play," we trade push-ups & sit-ups for brownies/cookies, etc. She makes me get my exercise everyday.
> 
> TMI? Hope not. None of this gets obsessive....it's just part of the fun of keeping the erotic alive in our relationship together. I share it simply to empathize with you. There _is _a place for your preference in a relationship. I hope more women are beginning to feel the freedom to express theirs too!  Handling how your preference affects the dynamic between love and attraction is different for every couple and every relationship.
> 
> <moves hands in a gentle fashion closer to RV>
> 
> Here's your rocks back.





Your wife?

ONE fucking LUCKY lady....seriously.

Seriously...ever consider plural marriage?..Because you rock.

Thank you so much for that candid response...

I could never tell the ex my preference..it would have hurt him so badly....


This remains the best doggamn thread ever.


----------



## Lapwing

RedVelvet said:


> Your wife?
> 
> I could never tell the ex my preference..it would have hurt him so badly....
> 
> 
> This remains the best doggamn thread ever.



This is how I feel about my husband's current weight gain. Wow *RedVelvet*, you really have articulated some of the stuff that is strangled up inside me about how I feel about him. I still love him, but he's changed and I sometimes look at him and wonder what happened.

And *edx* - thanks for elucidating the difference between FA and SA, its not something I've thought deeply about before.

I totally agree that this thread rocks!


----------



## butch

Ok, I'm going to hijack a little bit, and hopefully not in a way that looks confrontational, either.

I think it is important to note that I think fat isn't always a feminizing (sp?)feature for everyone, regardless of gender. It depends on placement, texture, relationship to other external expressions of gender, etc.

Some women and men have an accentuated hourglass figure because of the amount and/or distribution of fat on their body; other women and men look masculine for similar reasons. 

I point this out not to suggest that anyone is making an absolute claim about fat=feminine, but to point out that perspective is important. For me, a man with a huge belly seems more masculine, for some reason, not less.

I also notice that my fat body makes me look less feminine, even though I have a traditionally feminine distribution of fat on my body. Again, may just be my POV, but I do marvel at how often men will overlook my large breasts and big ass and think I'm a guy.

Just my opinion. Oh, and I wanted to offer support for those of you talking about these things, and desire in general-it helps all of us to work these issues out and learn to support each other, FA, Fat person, or other.


----------



## Tad

RedVelvet said


> I could never tell the ex my preference..it would have hurt him so badly....






Lapwing said:


> This is how I feel about my husband's current weight gain.



It is always dangerous to extrapolate from the personal to the universal. So, keeping that disclaimer in mind:

Hate to say, but they probably know. Unless you ladies are hella good actresses 24/7, or they are really oblivious--even for being guys--they know. They may not know that they know, or know it exactly, or be sure exactly what it is about them that has cooled you off but.....they know.

Sorry.  



> And *edx* - thanks for elucidating the difference between FA and SA, its not something I've thought deeply about before.



Yah, well, I've thought about it quite a bit, cause, well.......per the above, I know.

-Ed


----------



## RedVelvet

butch said:


> Ok, I'm going to hijack a little bit, and hopefully not in a way that looks confrontational, either.
> 
> I think it is important to note that I think fat isn't always a feminizing (sp?)feature for everyone, regardless of gender. It depends on placement, texture, relationship to other external expressions of gender, etc.
> 
> Some women and men have an accentuated hourglass figure because of the amount and/or distribution of fat on their body; other women and men look masculine for similar reasons.
> 
> I point this out not to suggest that anyone is making an absolute claim about fat=feminine, but to point out that perspective is important. For me, a man with a huge belly seems more masculine, for some reason, not less.
> 
> I also notice that my fat body makes me look less feminine, even though I have a traditionally feminine distribution of fat on my body. Again, may just be my POV, but I do marvel at how often men will overlook my large breasts and big ass and think I'm a guy.
> 
> Just my opinion. Oh, and I wanted to offer support for those of you talking about these things, and desire in general-it helps all of us to work these issues out and learn to support each other, FA, Fat person, or other.





Ok....good point...and..

(Warning: Crude Talk ahead.)

Also...all the women I have fucked, or rather, who have fucked me..ahem.... are very butch tops, (cuz I roll that way <grin>)...and their size varied...so I see your point on a number of levels...subtle and non...

....thank you for your input..


----------



## RedVelvet

edx said:


> RedVelvet said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It is always dangerous to extrapolate from the personal to the universal. So, keeping that disclaimer in mind:
> 
> Hate to say, but they probably know. Unless you ladies are hella good actresses 24/7, or they are really oblivious--even for being guys--they know. They may not know that they know, or know it exactly, or be sure exactly what it is about them that has cooled you off but.....they know.
> 
> Sorry.
> 
> 
> 
> Yah, well, I've thought about it quite a bit, cause, well.......per the above, I know.
> 
> -Ed




Maybe..maybe not...I didnt fuck him less. ....or tell him he was gorgeous less..

Of course....it probably helped that he was, at the end, the most self absorbed towering prick in the entire world....but thats just my opinion...


----------



## butch

RedVelvet said:


> Ok....good point...and..
> 
> (Warning: Crude Talk ahead.)
> 
> Also...all the women I have fucked, or rather, who have fucked me..ahem.... are very butch tops, (cuz I roll that way <grin>)...and their size varied...so I see your point on a number of levels...subtle and non...
> 
> ....thank you for your input..



Hey RedVelvet,

Thanks for the response, and for your appreciation of the butchies.


----------



## RedVelvet

butch said:


> Hey RedVelvet,
> 
> Thanks for the response, and for your appreciation of the butchies.




Oh hell yes! Goddess Bless Butch Women!


----------



## bigplaidpants

I just wanted to express my continued appreciation and support....this thread remains increasingly amazing to me. I've both learned and spilled more on it than any other.....

*edx *- as always, :bow: , Your posts are not only helpful _and _thoughtful, but important. Size Acceptance and Fat Admiration are NOT the same. This is an assumption for me.....and, it should not be lost.

*RedVelvet *- you rock, yourself, girl. And, I've thought about the poly thing, but I'm just not ready. :happy: BDSM and the bi- perspective, for me, accentuates the elasticity, as well as, multivalent nature of the whole fat erotic thing. It puts fat into play in a whole larger field of erotics, that I just think is absolutely interesting....and just plain....kewl. Which relates to....

*butch *- your point about fat and gender is friggin keen. I could sit and plumb that one with company over coffee for about a month. (I'd smoke, too, but I quit 9 years ago   the ambivalence of it all!) 

both you and RV could continue to enlighten me on how fat plays out in the whole butch/fem gig for you, too. It's not an invitation....but more of a fascination at this point. I personally see fat/size being dynamic here, playing into both sides of the power-play.

Anyway....exciting as hell. This is fun.


----------



## stan_der_man

I've really been amazed at where this thread has gone too BigPlaid. I wrote things that I only just (at the time of my writing them) understood about myself! The people on the Dim forums can be incredible sometimes...



RedVelvet said:


> Oh..this is hard...
> 
> I am a fat woman who likes thin to slightly thickish/muscular men....That is my preference...that is what I am attracted to, body wize.
> ...
> I hate to admit this..I do...but MAN, I loved his old face..he was so handsome!
> 
> The new face is thick and...nice looking..but he was gorgeous before...





butch said:


> Ok, I'm going to hijack a little bit, and hopefully not in a way that looks confrontational, either.
> 
> I think it is important to note that I think fat isn't always a feminizing (sp?)feature for everyone, regardless of gender. It depends on placement, texture, relationship to other external expressions of gender, etc.
> 
> .



It’s so cool that every body is being open and candid! When men and women (FAs and fat people, Gays and Straits, whatever…) have open discussions like this, what I always notice is that we really have more in common than differences. I had an African-American studies class in college, the professor gave us a challenge; for every difference we could find between blacks and whites, he would give us five things that we had in common, and he did that no matter what we threw at him. This reminds me of that.

Redvelvet, your opinions are perfectly valid and I certainly don’t think anybody should be throwing rocks at your preferences. Like I posted before, I think that anyone who claims to be intimately attracted to someone based purely on mind and personality is probably kidding themselves, or attempting to academically argue a point. There are different levels of how important physical atheistics are over personality for each person and each relationship no doubt. Maybe there are some people who honestly only look at personality as a sexual preference, but I would be willing to bet they are a small minority.

Men are commonly accused of being attracted to women because of a preferred body shape or type, but I think men and women do have this trait in common. I think women have their preferences about certain body types, and will prefer a man (s/o) of otherwise equal qualifications that has these certain physical attributes. Like I said before; Is this bad? No. Intimate relationships are very delicate and deeply heartfelt interactions, every little thing counts sometimes.

Not being a woman (or man who is attracted to other men…) I don’t really know what is considered attractive about men (maybe it’s just my learned behavior…) I wonder if men have limited amounts of shapes and women are put in a position that their physical preferences have to be relegated to a lesser importance (vs. preferences to a man’s personality) because of this. Men (or women) who are attracted to women have a plethora of womanly body shapes presented to them. I wonder if this is the thing that breaks the commonality between men and women and why men tend to be accused of being drawn to women’s bodies more often.

Butch, your point about fat not necessarily being feminine also makes me think how men and women have more commonalities than differences, and that gender may be more psychological than physical. Like you said, fat in certain places like around the stomach (or simply a different look that fat creates) can make a woman appear more masculine, and fat thighs / rear end on a man can make them look more feminine. The male preference tends (or is stereotyped) to be that the hourglass or pear figures are preferred. We tend to regard hourglass / pear shaped figures as feminine. Women with big bellies are teased more (or denigrated as being less feminine). Fat men with pear shaped figures (and there are some) are usually taunted more than men with “beer bellies”. Gender issues seem to overlap physical biology.

I don’t know what to conclude from this other than I don’t think any one opinion is right or wrong. I think being a FA, or a human for that matter, is not a simple thing to easily dissect and draw conclusions from. Most of the elements are the same when put into perspective though, and maybe that’s the important thing. I think this may be the key for men and women (FAs and fat people, gays and straits) to better understand each other.

Stan


----------



## RedVelvet

bigplaidpants said:


> *RedVelvet *- you rock, yourself, girl. And, I've thought about the poly thing, but I'm just not ready. :happy: BDSM and the bi- perspective, for me, accentuates the elasticity, as well as, multivalent nature of the whole fat erotic thing. It puts fat into play in a whole larger field of erotics, that I just think is absolutely interesting....and just plain....kewl. Which relates to....
> 
> *butch *- your point about fat and gender is friggin keen. I could sit and plumb that one with company over coffee for about a month. (I'd smoke, too, but I quit 9 years ago   the ambivalence of it all!)
> 
> both you and RV could continue to enlighten me on how fat plays out in the whole butch/fem gig for you, too. It's not an invitation....but more of a fascination at this point. I personally see fat/size being dynamic here, playing into both sides of the power-play.
> 
> Anyway....exciting as hell. This is fun.





Thanks, Sweetpea!.....I just feel all da love!.....and trust me..I am a combative thing here sometimes.....I like this better.

Oh boy...Butch/fem dynamics in a D/s and BDSM context!.....Now there's a light and simple subject!!.....lets add some FAT into it!


God...I am so glad I am a pervert.

(a monogamous one...but yeah..)

I find that there are a LOT of Dominants...men and women.....who like fluffy girls....for a million varied reasons..but the outcome is the same:

More attention for ME, thank you very much.

..and really..isnt that what matters?...


----------



## Tad

RedVelvet said:


> Maybe..maybe not...I didnt fuck him less. ....or tell him he was gorgeous less..
> 
> Of course....it probably helped that he was, at the end, the most self absorbed towering prick in the entire world....but thats just my opinion...



OK, I’ll grant you some people can be pretty resistant to reality, and it is possible that your ex’s ego was pretty much bullet proof. However I’d say the &#8216;he knows’ factor is not so much a matter of how often you did insert tab A in slot B games. Moving away from the specific to the general here, it is in how long your gaze lingers on him, and where you look, and how much your eyes widen and your pupils dilate. It is when you touch him, and how often, and where. Even how you touch him, if when your hand is on his knee your fingers start to dig in, if squeezing by him in the shower you lean into him that bit more. It is in how much attention you pay to what he wears and whether you point out to him things he might want to shop for cause you’d like to see him in them. In short, it is about how much attention you pay to his body. That is why I said that unless you can act incredibly well, 24/7, he’ll know. Barring, of course, his being totally oblivious or having a bullet-proof ego. Simply, it is hard to fake that degree of interest when you are not really paying attention.

Of course the same thing goes the other way too, I’m sure most women can tell when their guy’s interest in their body wanes, even if they could not always tell you exactly why they know. We are very well designed for noticing how much attention someone pays to us, and when that level is unusual or changing.

And like you said, what matters most is how much attention is paid to *me* (I'll just make that me in the general sense)

-Ed
PS. Yes, putting into words explicitly may have hurt the guys more. Hard to say.


----------



## RedVelvet

edx said:


> OK, Ill grant you some people can be pretty resistant to reality,.............. Moving away from the specific to the general here, it is in how long your gaze lingers on him, and where you look, and how much your eyes widen and your pupils dilate. It is when you touch him, and how often, and where. Even how you touch him, if when your hand is on his knee your fingers start to dig in, if squeezing by him in the shower you lean into him that bit more. It is in how much attention you pay to what he wears and whether you point out to him things he might want to shop for cause youd like to see him in them. In short, it is about how much attention you pay to his body. That is why I said that unless you can act incredibly well, 24/7, hell know. Barring, of course, his being totally oblivious or having a bullet-proof ego. Simply, it is hard to fake that degree of interest when you are not really paying attention.





True...very true...tiny shifts in tone and mood and how one is looked at...oh my...you are right.

Fortunately....he, in the end, saw nothing but himself.

You ARE a smartypants, edx.....my god...my respect for you is huge.


----------



## Tad

RedVelvet said:


> Fortunately....he, in the end, saw nothing but himself.



It sounds like, however much it may have been painful at the time, you are so much better off without him! 

As you say, it is not all about him--it is all about _you_!  

-Ed


----------



## ekmanifest

magnoliagrows said:


> Doesn't it go the other way too? In my experience with an FA, as he is excited with every pound I gain, there is a nagging question in the back of my mind. When is enough going to be enough? (I'm 5'4") Will he be happy when I reach 225 or will he still want more? 250? 300? It can be scary for a girl new to the FA/BBW acceptance scene, coming from a background with a more traditional view of beauty.
> 
> This is my first post and just wanted to say how useful this whole discussion is for me. This whole FA/BBW thing is very new to me. I love it, it is incredibly freeing and amazing . . . however, it is also scary. I am finding myself at 325+ pounds thinking, am I too thin for him? And if so, what does that mean.
> 
> Just chiming in!


----------



## jkssbbw

some FAs get very nasty and mean if you say simple no thank you.if my FA does not stop trying to stuff me .I,M leaving him i.m sure their are many FAs
that are not abusive and dont try stuffing against a womens will.My FA lurks around here I hope you see this HONEY.


----------



## waldo

jkssbbw said:


> some FAs get very nasty and mean if you say simple no thank you.if my FA does not stop trying to stuff me .I,M leaving him i.m sure their are many FAs
> that are not abusive and dont try stuffing against a womens will.My FA lurks around here I hope you see this HONEY.



Unfortunately, I think your experience is not that uncommon. This kind of bullying or coersion can exist in many forms and to a multitude of degrees. I hope your guy comes to his senses and lays off you before you are forced to kick him to the curb. Have you tried discussing with him the health and mobility consequences of extreme high weight? If he seems disinterested in that issue, he is clearly a shortsighted uncaring jerk. Good luck


----------



## SamanthaNY

jkssbbw said:


> some FAs get very nasty and mean if you say simple no thank you.if my FA does not stop trying to stuff me .I,M leaving him i.m sure their are many FAs
> that are not abusive and dont try stuffing against a womens will.My FA lurks around here I hope you see this HONEY.



I'd like to point out that you should probably replace the "FA" in your quote above should be replaced with "Feeder". Your *feeder *wants to stuff you - not your FA. Yes, feeders are often FAs as well, but *not* all FAs are feeders, and I think that's a very important distinction. 

Many (most?) FAs will be delighted if you gain, but they won't actively insure that you do so, and certainly won't throw a hissy-fit if you don't eat.


----------



## Tad

SamanthaNY said:


> I'd like to point out that you should probably replace the "FA" in your quote above should be replaced with "Feeder". Your *feeder *wants to stuff you - not your FA. Yes, feeders are often FAs as well, but *not* all FAs are feeders, and I think that's a very important distinction.
> 
> Many (most?) FAs will be delighted if you gain, but they won't actively insure that you do so, and certainly won't throw a hissy-fit if you don't eat.



First of all: yah, what Sam said.

Secondly, even many of the folk who might use the term feeder to describe themselves will not pressure their partner to gain--the term feeder gets used often to describe anyone who is erotically attracted to weight gain, but a good portion understand that this erotic fantasy has to take a back seat to good sense and living life. 

Anyone who is pressuring you to always gain, who is never happy with what you eat, who is trying to coerce you to gain: they are abusing you, at least emotionally. There are plenty of this sort of folk in all walks of life. If you are with one, then please, please, please get away from them. That is not love.

Regards;

-Ed


----------



## bigplaidpants

SamanthaNY said:


> I'd like to point out that you should probably replace the "FA" in your quote above should be replaced with "Feeder". Your *feeder *wants to stuff you - not your FA. Yes, feeders are often FAs as well, but *not* all FAs are feeders, and I think that's a very important distinction.
> 
> Many (most?) FAs will be delighted if you gain, but they won't actively insure that you do so, and certainly won't throw a hissy-fit if you don't eat.



I rep'd SamanthaNY for this clarification.



edx said:


> First of all: yah, what Sam said.
> 
> Secondly, even many of the folk who might use the term feeder to describe themselves will not pressure their partner to gain--the term feeder gets used often to describe anyone who is erotically attracted to weight gain, but a good portion understand that this erotic fantasy has to take a back seat to good sense and living life.
> 
> Anyone who is pressuring you to always gain, who is never happy with what you eat, who is trying to coerce you to gain: they are abusing you, at least emotionally. There are plenty of this sort of folk in all walks of life. If you are with one, then please, please, please get away from them. That is not love.
> 
> Regards;
> 
> -Ed



Ed expresses my sentiments, too. I've posted too much on fantasy vs. reality to repeat it here....

Blessings, JK, in your relationship. I hope your lurking "feeder" gets the message, too. This FA stereotype needs to be overcome.


----------



## Littleghost

5)? Don't assume that an 'out' FA doesn't know about predjudice or sympathize with being a BBW, especially since the FA once had the opportunity to 'hide'. It's kind of a smack in the face.


----------



## waldo

Littleghost said:


> 5)? Don't assume that an 'out' FA doesn't know about predjudice or sympathize with being a BBW, especially since the FA once had the opportunity to 'hide'. It's kind of a smack in the face.



I am confused by this post. Please explain further what you are saying in it. What is a smack in the face?? That the FA often doesn't sympathize with the burden associated with being fat in a fat-phobic society?


I see this argument quite often that FAs have the advantage of being able to 'hide' our attraction to fat women. In reality, I wonder how much of an advantage this really is. Locking up an important part of oneself inside is not an emotionally healthy situation and the burden of misrepresenting who you are takes a toll with time. And many FAs never really deal with this issue or do so only when much older thus resulting in many unfulfilling, wasted years. Or worse, hook up with fat women only on the sly - I wonder how many guys who do that are really happy with themselves or wish they had the strength to do better and be fully open about themselves. I'm not looking to start an FA pity party here as some might assume, just pointing out that we have our difficulties too, as some have already discussed earlier in this thread.


----------



## bigplaidpants

Littleghost said:


> 5)? Don't assume that an 'out' FA doesn't know about predjudice or sympathize with being a BBW, especially since the FA once had the opportunity to 'hide'. It's kind of a smack in the face.





waldo said:


> I am confused by this post. Please explain further what you are saying in it. What is a smack in the face?? That the FA often doesn't sympathize with the burden associated with being fat in a fat-phobic society?



Thanks, Waldo.

LittleG, plz say more. This thread has a good amount of thought-out and heartfelt discussion in it. If you flesh it out and say a little more, I think it'd help.



> I see this argument quite often that FAs have the advantage of being able to 'hide' our attraction to fat women. In reality, I wonder how much of an advantage this really is. Locking up an important part of oneself inside is not an emotionally healthy situation and the burden of misrepresenting who you are takes a toll with time. And many FAs never really deal with this issue or do so only when much older thus resulting in many unfulfilling, wasted years. Or worse, hook up with fat women only on the sly - I wonder how many guys who do that are really happy with themselves or wish they had the strength to do better and be fully open about themselves. I'm not looking to start an FA pity party here as some might assume, just pointing out that we have our difficulties too, as some have already discussed earlier in this thread.



Well said. Second. And, you're right. There's no need for a pity-party. FA's just have their sexual/erotic "stuff" like others do. Two suppressed, unexplored, or "hiding" sexual souls don't make for a "right" relationship no matter how you cut it. Self-discovery is work, unless you mindlessly buy the sexual world Hollywood's dishin'. We all have our own "stuff," and as I've seen many times on these boards, sometimes the FA/BBW aspect of them simply channels or shapes ole' gender stuff in new exotic wrapping.


----------



## stan_der_man

Littleghost said:


> 5)? Don't assume that an 'out' FA doesn't know about predjudice or sympathize with being a BBW, especially since the FA once had the opportunity to 'hide'. It's kind of a smack in the face.





bigplaidpants said:


> Thanks, Waldo.
> 
> LittleG, plz say more. This thread has a good amount of thought-out and heartfelt discussion in it. If you flesh it out and say a little more, I think it'd help.
> ...



I've been thinking about the whole FA thing, the issues that we deal with, about our own acceptance, and how our preferences and self acceptance are intertwined with the self acceptance of the fat people that we admire.

I recently posted in this thread: http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23807
In my last comment of this thread... http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=461401&postcount=86 I realized that I was taking a swipe at a fellow FA for (ineptly, as I accused him..) supporting fat women. In some ways I regret my comments because as an FA, I should be supporting my brethren, but at the same time if an FA so utterly creates a situation that stirs up the hornets nest of self acceptance issues (for fat people) and makes things worse, it only puts the cause of size acceptance (and acceptance of those who admire fat people) a step backwards. Maybe as FAs we should only concentrate on our cause, that of the acceptance of fat admirers, and just leave the whole NAAFA / fat acceptance thing to the people who are affected (fat people)? My past experience with NAAFA has been lukewarm support of (thin) FAs at best, maybe things have changed, it's been a while. I am a card carrying NAAFA member regardless, I still believe in the cause as a whole but maybe somebody like me isn't a good advocate for fat people, only for FAs. Maybe having (thin) FAs advocate size acceptance is like having a white guy support the Black Panthers; we are just setting ourselves up for a flogging if someone we support gets slighted. Maybe we should be narrower in our scope of advocacy and only concentrate on FAs?

Just some thoughts...

Stan


----------



## alienlanes

Fascinating thread! Thanks for bumping it, ekmanifest.



bigplaidpants said:


> Well said. Second. And, you're right. There's no need for a pity-party. FA's just have their sexual/erotic "stuff" like others do. Two suppressed, unexplored, or "hiding" sexual souls don't make for a "right" relationship no matter how you cut it. Self-discovery is work, unless you mindlessly buy the sexual world Hollywood's dishin'. We all have our own "stuff," and as I've seen many times on these boards, sometimes the FA/BBW aspect of them simply channels or shapes ole' gender stuff in new exotic wrapping.





fa_man_stan said:


> I've been thinking about the whole FA thing, the issues that we deal with, about our own acceptance, and how our preferences and self acceptance are intertwined with the self acceptance of the fat people that we admire.
> 
> I recently posted in this thread: http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23807
> In my last comment of this thread... http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=461401&postcount=86 I realized that I was taking a swipe at a fellow FA for (ineptly, as I accused him..) supporting fat women. In some ways I regret my comments because as an FA, I should be supporting my brethren, but at the same time if an FA so utterly creates a situation that stirs up the hornets nest of self acceptance issues (for fat people) and makes things worse, it only puts the cause of size acceptance (and acceptance of those who admire fat people) a step backwards. Maybe as FAs we should only concentrate on our cause, that of the acceptance of fat admirers, and just leave the whole NAAFA / fat acceptance thing to the people who are affected (fat people)? My past experience with NAAFA has been lukewarm support of (thin) FAs at best, maybe things have changed, it's been a while. I am a card carrying NAAFA member regardless, I still believe in the cause as a whole but maybe somebody like me isn't a good advocate for fat people, only for FAs. Maybe having (thin) FAs advocate size acceptance is like having a white guy support the Black Panthers; we are just setting ourselves up for a flogging if someone we support gets slighted. Maybe we should be narrower in our scope of advocacy and only concentrate on FAs?
> 
> Just some thoughts...
> 
> Stan



Well said, BPP and Stan, and emphatically agreed with! These are good points which I think are worth developing. I tend to consider having discussions like these in a public forum to be something that we as FAs can do for "the cause", because (I hope!) they help lurking/closeted FAs come to terms with their own issues, but now that I think about it, this doesn't really have as much to do with "size acceptance" as it does with "sexuality acceptance". Most of what I post whenever the subject of feederism comes up, for example, boils down to "don't be ashamed of your desires, but always be safe and consensual," which is no different from what I'd say to a newbie if this were a BDSM board or whatever.

I believe _very_ strongly in the importance of sexual self-acceptance. Repressed desires can do a _lot_ of psychological and emotional damage, and IMHO, sexual fear and shame are some of the most powerful psychological weapons by which "the system" keeps people in line. But this doesn't have anything to do with fat per se -- like BPP said, a lot of this is generalized gender stuff which just happens, in these particular cases, to involve fat.

The threads that come up every few weeks about "secret feeders", "you'd look so much better with a few more pounds", "how can I get my wife to gain weight," et cetera strike me as an example of this. This is just brainstorming here, but I wonder: if someone isn't comfortable with their own sexual desires, could dehumanizing their partner be a defense mechanism to avoid confronting their anxiety over their own sexual fantasies? If someone is horrified and frightened by the fact that they're attracted to supersized people or fantasize about extreme WG, they're less likely to share these fantasies with their partner and work out a healthy, consensual way of dealing with them. Whereas if they accept without guilt or anxiety that they have "weird" desires, they can find a more healthy and balanced place for them in their romantic/sexual lives.

But at the same time, as out FAs who have or want to have fat partners, we can't avoid being involved in size acceptance issues. Certainly those of us who are thin should be supportive of our partners (and of our other friends in the community) in their struggles. But I don't know what the best way might be to go about this.

IMHO, the first step, and the one which only we can take, is to educate other FAs about learning to accept themselves and their desires. Then the second step would be to teach them how to be supportive of fat people in _their_ self-acceptance struggles. I don't have any practical suggestions about this stage. The best thing to do might just be to ask our favorite BBWs and BHMs: what can we as FAs/FFAs do to be allies in the cause of size acceptance?

Although Step Two, Lesson #1 practically writes itself: "Never tell a woman 'you look hot, it's a shame you don't dress better.'" ...


----------



## Caligula

CurvyEm said:


> 3.) Just because a man is an FA don't automatically assume that he will find you attractive. Not all 'normal' men fancy all 'normal' sized girls. So don't accuse them of not being a 'real' FA if they don't fancy you. (Yes, I've seen this happen)



For serious! This is the main thing...I have incredibly high standards. The one friend I have that knows I dig fat chicks (as well as thin chicks) always points out every disgustingly ugly fat gal on the planet to me. I'm like "bro.....just because I dig fat chicks doesn't mean my picky (like Jerry Seinfeld picky) self is gone!"


----------



## Littleghost

My apologies for the inproper explanation. What I meant is, that there are FAs that are 'out', with their preference fully known to others around them and are not ashamed; make no attempt to hide it, and then there are FAs that are more "in the closet." They are secret FAs and only exercise this part of their lives when it's convenient.

Sometimes the 'out' FAs get lumped in with 'closet' FAs and are critised unjustly for 'having it easy' while not being sympathetic or appreciative of what it's like to be a (SS)BBW socially, physically, mentally and emotionally in the society that we live in. In other words, FAs sometimes come across the attitude that we have all the privledges, while none of the responsibilities or grief that (SS)BBWs experience and that FAs don't fully appreciate this situation.

I find that just as not all FAs are not feeders, not all FAs are closeted, and the uncloseted FAs have all experienced varying degrees of predjudice/resistance and their own levels of respect and compassion for (SS)BBWs.

In short, one bad apple FA does not make all FAs, and blanketing assumptions just do more damage than good. It's an insult to all the decent ones out there.

(There was a thread out there somewhere that talked about the possibility that these assumptions/criticisms might actually be keeping otherwise decent FAs in the closet about their preference/lifestyle, but I can't really find it right now while typing.)

Hopefully I cleared up any confusion I caused and didn't come across as embittered while doing so. I honestly appreciate all the appreciation that we get from (SS)BBWs here from time to time. It actually strengthens my resolve as an already out FA.


----------



## Littleghost

Here's a thread that dealt kinda/sorta/close to what I was talking about. However, it deals pretty much exclusively with closeted FAs. My opinions on such sad beasts are fiercely mixed, for the record. (Waldo contributed quite a hefty chunk to said thread!)

http://dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?p=318887#poststop


----------



## T_Devil

I don't consider a person to be an FA until they "come out" about it. Until then, I consider them a "closet case". It's kind of a mean and shallow thing, but see if I care what anyone else thinks. If you're in, you're all in. You can't admire on the sly. It's some sneaky, underhanded shit to do and that isn't fair to anyone.

No, if the person wants to be considered to be a Fat Admirer, they have to be willing to be seen with a fat person. They don't have to be as outspoken as I am, but they can't "just hide it" either. If a person want's to continue to be a closet case, then they ought to be seen as such.

I don't believe in being mean, I just beileve in being honest.


----------



## stan_der_man

SlackerFA said:


> ...
> 
> IMHO, the first step, and the one which only we can take, is to educate other FAs about learning to accept themselves and their desires. Then the second step would be to teach them how to be supportive of fat people in _their_ self-acceptance struggles. I don't have any practical suggestions about this stage. The best thing to do might just be to ask our favorite BBWs and BHMs: what can we as FAs/FFAs do to be allies in the cause of size acceptance?
> 
> ...



That's one thing I've been pondering for a while. I think the time is right insofar as there being a "critical mass" of FAs to create a SIG, seperate board, or community of some type that is made up of FAs, and specifically for FAs (all others being welcome of course, but the emphasis being for FAs…) By critical mass I mean that there seems to be enough members in this community (Dimensions) to make an interesting, diverse, self sustaining community that could be a resource for new FAs, and support for us FAs in general. Something like this has never materialized (not for very long anyway) that I can remember. I think having threads about this is a great way to bring FA issues to the forefront, but even the best of threads eventually sink into the digital blue ocean, and are forgotten. Personally I think this subject is worthy of some type of "permanent home" where it can be more readily accessed.





Littleghost said:


> My apologies for the inproper explanation. What I meant is, that there are FAs that are 'out', with their preference fully known to others around them and are not ashamed; make no attempt to hide it, and then there are FAs that are more "in the closet." They are secret FAs and only exercise this part of their lives when it's convenient.
> 
> ...


Littleghost, those are very valid points, I’m glad you articulated them further. I think each FA has to decide how they express their preference, whether it’s verbally, wearing a tee-shirt, or simply by their actions. One observation that I’ve made is, if a FA doesn’t completely “come out of the closet” and only exercises his (or her) preference when it is “convenient” it usually comes back to haunt them sooner or later; they will probably be “outed” in less than desirable circumstances, or forced to give up a relationship which they relish because of their cowardess.



T_Devil said:


> I don't consider a person to be an FA until they "come out" about it. Until then, I consider them a "closet case".
> …
> 
> No, if the person wants to be considered to be a Fat Admirer, they have to be willing to be seen with a fat person. They don't have to be as outspoken as I am, but they can't "just hide it" either. If a person want's to continue to be a closet case, then they ought to be seen as such.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe in being mean, I just beileve in being honest.


Also good points T_Devil. I think there are two issues here… One of simply being “out” about being an FA, and another about how much one expresses his (or her) sexual preferences. I never really engaged the people in my life directly about my sexual preferences per se. I simply did what I felt was right for me (dating fat girls, marrying a fat girl) and considered my actions to be the best representation of what I stood for. I always supported fat people, but didn’t deliberately go around beating a drum of support. I felt that simply setting an example by my actions and being proud of who I was (and who I was with) was all that I needed to do. I always defended myself and those I admired when insults flew, I felt that was all that was necessary for me. Going on Miami Ink, getting a fat girl tattoo and being interviewed (speaking) about size acceptance was a whole new realm of activism for me, I felt that the time and place was right for me. One interesting side note… having an image of a fat girl tattooed to my arm has actually been a very positive experience for me. On the warm days that I have worn a sleeveless shirt, I must say that I’ve gotten more positive comments about the fat girl on my arm than I expected. Maybe tattooing ones sexual preference on their arm is the easiest way for others to identify your preference and show your support for fat women (or men)… 

Stan


----------



## bigplaidpants

fa_man_stan said:


> That's one thing I've been pondering for a while. I think the time is right insofar as there being a "critical mass" of FAs to create a SIG, seperate board, or community of some type that is made up of FAs, and specifically for FAs (all others being welcome of course, but the emphasis being for FAs) .....



I'm still all for this, Stan. Just sayin'....


----------



## waldo

Littleghost said:


> Sometimes the 'out' FAs get lumped in with 'closet' FAs and are critised unjustly for 'having it easy' while not being sympathetic or appreciative of what it's like to be a (SS)BBW socially, physically, mentally and emotionally in the society that we live in. In other words, FAs sometimes come across the attitude that we have all the privledges, while none of the responsibilities or grief that (SS)BBWs experience and that FAs don't fully appreciate this situation.
> ...................................
> (There was a thread out there somewhere that talked about the possibility that these assumptions/criticisms might actually be keeping otherwise decent FAs in the closet about their preference/lifestyle, but I can't really find it right now while typing.)
> 
> Hopefully I cleared up any confusion I caused and didn't come across as embittered while doing so. I honestly appreciate all the appreciation that we get from (SS)BBWs here from time to time. It actually strengthens my resolve as an already out FA.



Thanks for the clarification. However, remember that many fat people will still believe (and be correct) that FAs have it much easier no matter how open we are about ourselves. We don't deal personally with the health and mobility issues and we don't get the stares from people in public when not accompanying our fat patner.



Littleghost said:


> Here's a thread that dealt kinda/sorta/close to what I was talking about. However, it deals pretty much exclusively with closeted FAs. My opinions on such sad beasts are fiercely mixed, for the record. (Waldo contributed quite a hefty chunk to said thread!)
> 
> http://dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?p=318887#poststop



Yes and an an excellent thread it was. A must read for anyone new on the scene.


----------



## waldo

fa_man_stan said:


> That's one thing I've been pondering for a while. I think the time is right insofar as there being a "critical mass" of FAs to create a SIG, seperate board, or community of some type that is made up of FAs, and specifically for FAs (all others being welcome of course, but the emphasis being for FAs…) By critical mass I mean that there seems to be enough members in this community (Dimensions) to make an interesting, diverse, self sustaining community that could be a resource for new FAs, and support for us FAs in general. Something like this has never materialized (not for very long anyway) that I can remember. I think having threads about this is a great way to bring FA issues to the forefront, but even the best of threads eventually sink into the digital blue ocean, and are forgotten. Personally I think this subject is worthy of some type of "permanent home" where it can be more readily accessed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Littleghost, those are very valid points, I’m glad you articulated them further. I think each FA has to decide how they express their preference, whether it’s verbally, wearing a tee-shirt, or simply by their actions. One observation that I’ve made is, if a FA doesn’t completely “come out of the closet” and only exercises his (or her) preference when it is “convenient” it usually comes back to haunt them sooner or later; they will probably be “outed” in less than desirable circumstances, or forced to give up a relationship which they relish because of their cowardess.
> 
> 
> Also good points T_Devil. I think there are two issues here… One of simply being “out” about being an FA, and another about how much one expresses his (or her) sexual preferences. I never really engaged the people in my life directly about my sexual preferences per se. I simply did what I felt was right for me (dating fat girls, marrying a fat girl) and considered my actions to be the best representation of what I stood for. I always supported fat people, but didn’t deliberately go around beating a drum of support. I felt that simply setting an example by my actions and being proud of who I was (and who I was with) was all that I needed to do. I always defended myself and those I admired when insults flew, I felt that was all that was necessary for me. Going on Miami Ink, getting a fat girl tattoo and being interviewed (speaking) about size acceptance was a whole new realm of activism for me, I felt that the time and place was right for me. One interesting side note… having an image of a fat girl tattooed to my arm has actually been a very positive experience for me. On the warm days that I have worn a sleeveless shirt, I must say that I’ve gotten more positive comments about the fat girl on my arm than I expected. Maybe tattooing ones sexual preference on their arm is the easiest way for others to identify your preference and show your support for fat women (or men)…
> 
> Stan



It is ironic that Dimensions started as just what you are describing as a resource primarily for the FAs with others (particularly the BBWs of our desires) welcome but the emphasis of it being a place for the FAs. Of course now Dimensions has become more and more a place (refuge) for the people first and foremost and a place for FAs second. And discussions of FA issues are becoming perhaps as welcome here as they have traditionally been in NAAFA. 

Here is an interesting read for those who haven't seen it. It was written a long time ago (mid '90s) by a former NAAFA president, and seems just as relevant today.

ETA: You really went on the TV show and had a fat woman tatooed on your arm?? That's great!!


----------



## stan_der_man

waldo said:


> ...
> Here is an interesting read for those who haven't seen it. It was written a long time ago (mid '90s) by a former NAAFA president, and seems just as relevant today.



I do remember reading that, I was a NAAFA member by then. You are right Waldo, that article still has as much validity today as it did back then. One fair criticism of FAs (myself included) is that we joined the movement, we went to the social events, met someone (got married or whatever), "got what we wanted out of the movement" and bailed out. In my case, that wasn't a conscious motive, I did believe in the size acceptance movement. My wife and I were active members of our local NAAFA chapter for a quite a few years after getting married, but viewed by others I could see the misperception that I just joined NAAFA to meet a fat woman. I think that is where the animosity rests between fat activists and FAs. It is perceived that FAs can get what they want out of the movement and vanish into "average society" as is convienent for them (or after the FAs get out of the movement what they want), while the fat people are (generally) always fat, and the issues that NAAFA deals with always apply to them. There is a good amount of truth to that. I agree that NAAFA should predominanly be for fat people, about fat people and comprised of fat people. Many FAs only joined NAAFA to meet chicks, no doubt about that, but plenty also believe in the size acceptance movement such as myself and resent being lumped into that group. Marginalizing an FA from the size acceptance movement, in my opinion, is somewhat like saying that a gay male can blend into society by acting strait, looking "normal" and suppressing their sexual desires. I think Dimensions (Mag and Online) has been more sucessful blending FAs and fat people because a culture was created (by Conrad of course) that didn't dwell on the fact that there will always be a "social" scene, I think NAAFA generally tried to discourage that, maybe with valid reason, but to the detriment of FAs. I think it's a shame that there is animosity between the NAAFA and Dimensions people, because both groups are analogous and together supplement each other's weaknesses. NAAFA is the more academic of the two, and Dimensions is the thriving social community. There is plenty of overlap needless to say, but viewing the two groups as competing against each other (in a negative way) serves no purpose other than creating discord.

Anyway, the best we can do (FAs and fat people) is realize that we are in the same boat, be supportive of each other, sensitive to each others issues and keep size acceptance progressing in a positive way.



> ETA: You really went on the TV show and had a fat woman tatooed on your arm?? That's great!!


Yup! Diedrababe and I will be on Miami Ink getting fat girl tattoos and promoting size acceptance. Probably in mid August... Hopefully we'll know more exact of a date soon.

Stan


----------



## alienlanes

fa_man_stan said:


> That's one thing I've been pondering for a while. I think the time is right insofar as there being a "critical mass" of FAs to create a SIG, seperate board, or community of some type that is made up of FAs, and specifically for FAs (all others being welcome of course, but the emphasis being for FAs) By critical mass I mean that there seems to be enough members in this community (Dimensions) to make an interesting, diverse, self sustaining community that could be a resource for new FAs, and support for us FAs in general. Something like this has never materialized (not for very long anyway) that I can remember. I think having threads about this is a great way to bring FA issues to the forefront, but even the best of threads eventually sink into the digital blue ocean, and are forgotten. Personally I think this subject is worthy of some type of "permanent home" where it can be more readily accessed.





bigplaidpants said:


> I'm still all for this, Stan. Just sayin'....



Thirded. I'd be very much in favor of an "FA Issues" forum of some sort.

Two thoughts: I've only been active on Dims for a few months, but certain issues -- "I'm an FA but I'm afraid people will make fun of me!" "I'm an FA and I love my girlfriend, but she's thin!" -- seem to come up with such regularity that it'd be really useful to have a FAQ or stickied thread that we could point people to. Much as I love to deliver it, I'm getting kinda tired of typing up the whole "share your fantasies with your partner in an atmosphere of trust and communication" spiel every single weekend .

Second, I'd want any potential FA subforum to be a safe space/"snark-free zone" for closeted FAs to air their issues. Yeah, in a perfect world all FAs would come out of the womb fully secure in their preferences, but unfortunately that doesn't happen, and as much as I understand women's frustration with closeted-FA bullshit, sometimes guys need a little nudging from sympathetic, experienced guys who know what they're going through. So I'd ask that any BBWs who contributed to the discussion be respectful of this. (You ladies certainly have a vested interest in there being a pool of eligible guys who are secure in their FAism, so let us whip 'em into shape for you and we promise that by the time we turn 'em loose they'll be perfect gentlemen .)



waldo said:


> Here is an interesting read for those who haven't seen it. It was written a long time ago (mid '90s) by a former NAAFA president, and seems just as relevant today.



Wow! Thanks for passing that essay along -- I'd never seen it before. This quote in particular has a lot of resonance for me:



> [FAs'] support of the movement is a reflection of their personal issues about their FAness just as a fat person's support of the movement is a reflection of their personal issues about their fatness. For this reason, FAs' allegiance to the size acceptance movement is very different from, say, a sighted person's support of the blind movement or a white person's support of the civil rights movement.



Yep.


----------



## RedVelvet

SlackerFA said:


> Second, I'd want any potential FA subforum to be a safe space/"snark-free zone" for closeted FAs to air their issues. Yeah, in a perfect world all FAs would come out of the womb fully secure in their preferences, but unfortunately that doesn't happen, and as much as I understand women's frustration with closeted-FA bullshit, sometimes guys need a little nudging from sympathetic, experienced guys who know what they're going through. So I'd ask that any BBWs who contributed to the discussion be respectful of this. (You ladies certainly have a vested interest in there being a pool of eligible guys who are secure in their FAism, so let us whip 'em into shape for you and we promise that by the time we turn 'em loose they'll be perfect gentlemen .)




Awwwwww MAN...........I never get to have ANY fun!



...........I'll be good....I promise.

....No...really.


----------



## goofy girl

****BUMP****

in light of recent threads/posts


----------



## The Orange Mage

Those suggesting a FA SIG or special "FA issues" section of the forums...you DO realize that Dimensions was born out of NAAFA's FA SIG, right? We don't needa new section really...the General board is the correct place for FA-centric discussion.


----------



## LillyBBBW

The Orange Mage said:


> Those suggesting a FA SIG or special "FA issues" section of the forums...you DO realize that Dimensions was born out of NAAFA's FA SIG, right? We don't needa new section really...the General board is the correct place for FA-centric discussion.



Or so one would assume. It does tend to get a little too noisy around here for discussions of that nature to go on. I'm in favor of a private sanctum for male chat.


----------



## vcrgrrl

This was a great "make you think" type of post. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## AnnMarie

LillyBBBW said:


> Or so one would assume. It does tend to get a little too noisy around here for discussions of that nature to go on. I'm in favor of a private sanctum for male chat.



I have no problem if the men would like that (obviously not up to anyone but Conrad) but I would be angry if there was an assumption or suggestion that followed that all "male" conversations should be moved there. 

There's a lot of attitude here in recent past that seems to suggest the women shouldn't have to read this stuff... and I think that's part of the entire purpose of these boards. For men and women to share their sides, their issues and feelings, to come closer through knowledge and communication. I think that's always been Conrad's plan and hope, and more segregation - while it can be helpful for certain topics - can be divisive. 

I think it would be a small leap from there to a guy posting a "wow, this is a lovely woman" post and someone quickly replying "shouldn't this be in the GUYS area??"

I can't even stand the idea of that happening.


----------



## Tad

AnnMarie said:


> I have no problem if the men would like that (obviously not up to anyone but Conrad) but I would be angry if there was an assumption or suggestion that followed that all "male" conversations should be moved there.
> 
> There's a lot of attitude here in recent past that seems to suggest the women shouldn't have to read this stuff... and I think that's part of the entire purpose of these boards. For men and women to share their sides, their issues and feelings, to come closer through knowledge and communication. I think that's always been Conrad's plan and hope, and more segregation - while it can be helpful for certain topics - can be divisive.
> 
> I think it would be a small leap from there to a guy posting a "wow, this is a lovely woman" post and someone quickly replying "shouldn't this be in the GUYS area??"
> 
> I can't even stand the idea of that happening.



Also, speaking from long experiencewhere there are no BBW or FFA, it is hard to keep the guys talking for long. You see it in chat all the time, you see it in threads here fairly often, and I spent some years trying to run a yahoo group for this exact sort of purpose, and despite much initial enthusiasm it just slowly ran down for lack of participation. 

I dont know exactly why it works this way, certainly many of the guys have things to say to other guys. Maybe it is just that around women we work extra hard to be witty and insightful (or annoying, or funny, or, well, anything other than boring)?

So I don't think, aside from the question of is it appropriate, that it is all that likely to be a big success.

Regards;

-Ed


----------



## The Orange Mage

AnnMarie said:


> I think it would be a small leap from there to a guy posting a "wow, this is a lovely woman" post and someone quickly replying "shouldn't this be in the GUYS area??"
> 
> I can't even stand the idea of that happening.



Are you speaking of the faceless horndogs who can't find the shift key or when one of the more involved male members compliment someone in a picture thread?

I understand (and support) complaints about the latter, but the former shouldn't be an issue.


----------



## RedVelvet

The Orange Mage said:


> Are you speaking of the faceless horndogs who can't find the shift key or when one of the more involved male members compliment someone in a picture thread?
> 
> I understand (and support) complaints about the latter, but the former shouldn't be an issue.




dontcha wanna reverse that?...or am I reading you wrong.


I kan haz sick todai.


----------



## superodalisque

oh thank you for this thread. i plan to read it carefully because i'm ALWAYS putting my foot in my mouth or putting a foot wrong. Thanks!


----------



## stan_der_man

edx said:


> Also, speaking from long experience……where there are no BBW or FFA, it is hard to keep the guys talking for long. You see it in chat all the time, you see it in threads here fairly often, and I spent some years trying to run a yahoo group for this exact sort of purpose, and despite much initial enthusiasm it just slowly ran down for lack of participation.
> 
> I don’t know exactly why it works this way, certainly many of the guys have things to say to other guys. Maybe it is just that around women we work extra hard to be witty and insightful (or annoying, or funny, or, well, anything other than boring)?
> 
> So I don't think, aside from the question of is it appropriate, that it is all that likely to be a big success.
> 
> Regards;
> 
> -Ed


You are completely right Ed, guys don't seem to communicate in a way that would make a continuous all male FA "forum" work the way other forums or SIGs may work. I doubt any of us guys are going to get deep with each other about our inner feelings let alone be willing to maintain such a dialog for very long. That is exactly why such attempts at all male FA forums turned to dust in the past. But as you said, we (the guys) may be enticed to have discussions in mixed company (FAs & BBWs) in a forum simply designated as the "FA SIG" or something like that. Being a guy myself, I know that I tend to be more interested in projects that have some sort of end goal, some sort of objective to work towards as opposed to endless discussion or "support" of each other. I think we have a unique opportunity to plan an event that the guys (or FAs male / female) could do if the national Dims get-together materializes. Even if this national get-together doesn't materialize (or simply acknowledging the fact that many of the FAs here may not be able to attend such an event...) I think it would be an interesting excercise to see what sort of things the other guys are interested in learning about being a FA, or at very least I think it would be interesting to have a forum to meet the other guys and see what they are all about in a non-judgmental situation. Some sort of place where the noobs can "out" themselves and seek advice, where the "old timers" can reminisce, where the "feeders" can discuss things without getting a linching. Yes, places for this already exist in the weight board, but there is always the overtone that these forums are "erotic", or that the emphasis is about "the weight". The Mainboard is very general in nature, as Lilly said:



LillyBBBW said:


> Or so one would assume. It does tend to get a little too noisy around here for discussions of that nature to go on.
> ...



Conversations specifically of non-erotic male FA nature tend to get drowned out by all the other surrounding activity. Name one other thread where we have had this sort of conversation? I didn't know of any when I started this thread. I don't think a FA SIG forum needs to be private, as you said Ed, we may in fact thrive publically (the proverbial exhibitionist male...  ). What's lacking in my opinion is simply a specifically acknowledged place for us FAs to "meet", to discuss things FA that are of the non-erotic variety. Taking this a step further, I think one of the reasons the whole fat acceptance movement has stalled for so long (or just isn't making that leap into mainstream) is because a coalescing of FA has never happened. Maybe not even a "movement" is necessary, maybe just a group that is a visible representation of FAs, in a positive light is what is missing. Who are the fat beautiful women modeling clothing for? Other women? Who are the BBW calenders being made for? Other women? Partially, yes. These things are also being made for this un-identified group of mystery men called FAs. Maybe part of the reason BBW magazine and large size clothing manufactures can't show their clothing on truly large sized models and make money (you always hear that they only sell clothing on Lane Bryant sized models...) is because there isn't this visible mass of male FAs saying... "Hell yeah, those big gals look beautiful in that clothing!" Maybe I'm a naïf, but that's how it seems to work for the skinny gals. I think a visible (specifically) FA presence is something long overdue. We (FAs) have always been a part of this wonderful community called Dimensions, but we have faded into the background in many ways.

fa_man_stan

P.S. Thanks for the reps Superodalisque, and Lipmixgirl, and for reminding that people are still interested in this. 



... and thanks RV... just because I like to thank you


----------



## RedVelvet

awwwwwwwwwwwww.......



Prepare your follicles!


----------



## stan_der_man

RedVelvet said:


> awwwwwwwwwwwww.......
> 
> 
> 
> Prepare your follicles!



Woohoo! My follicles are a tingling! Nothin' a FA likes better than having a BBHS (big beautiful hair stylist) do her thing on him!


----------



## Candy_Coated_Clown

LillyBBBW said:


> Or so one would assume. It does tend to get a little too noisy around here for discussions of that nature to go on. I'm in favor of a private sanctum for male chat.



I love this idea as well, although I think it would be good if women could join in as well and that it would be public...but just that the thread forum being FA-focused.

I wonder how successful that would be. Maybe this is a stereotype to some, but it has some truth on some level...in that men might not be as "chatty" with this forum as women could be? So then, would the forum be very active in discussion? However, thinking again, perhaps that would foster more expression...


----------



## AnnMarie

The Orange Mage said:


> Are you speaking of the faceless horndogs who can't find the shift key or when one of the more involved male members compliment someone in a picture thread?
> 
> I understand (and support) complaints about the latter, but the former shouldn't be an issue.




I don't have a problem with any of them - I think you take people as they present themselves. If someone is an ass and shows it, then so be it. They have a right to be an ass though - in my opinion. 

My post was saying that I could see the "women" here, anytime a male-centered thread came up that they didn't care for, thinking it should be moved into the "male area" just because it's something they don't care to read.


----------



## The Orange Mage

That's exactly why we don't need a male section...people don't have to read it if they don't want to.


----------



## Forgotten_Futures

AnnMarie said:


> There's a lot of attitude here in recent past that seems to suggest the women shouldn't have to read this stuff...


 
Well, yeah, not to be snarky, but... there's this whole concept called not clicking on it if you don't like what it looks to be about.

You don't watch movies you don't want to, and no one's forcing you either way. You don't have to read threads/posts you don't want to either.


----------



## Forgotten_Futures

edx said:


> Also, speaking from long experiencewhere there are no BBW or FFA, it is hard to keep the guys talking for long. You see it in chat all the time, you see it in threads here fairly often, and I spent some years trying to run a yahoo group for this exact sort of purpose, and despite much initial enthusiasm it just slowly ran down for lack of participation.
> 
> I dont know exactly why it works this way, certainly many of the guys have things to say to other guys. Maybe it is just that around women we work extra hard to be witty and insightful (or annoying, or funny, or, well, anything other than boring)?
> 
> So I don't think, aside from the question of is it appropriate, that it is all that likely to be a big success.
> 
> Regards;
> 
> -Ed


 
In my experience, there seems to be this strange taboo about talking about guy stuff with other guys, while girls don't seem to have this issue (they simply have other, bloodier ones... no, I wasn't going there). To be perfectly honest, I find it a lot easier to discuss a lot of things with my bi/lesbian female friends than other guys, and then there's the physical issues that you just can't talk to chicks about, common sexual mindsets or not = P.

THAT said, I'm perfectly capable of throwing weird comments out for the express purpose of messing with people. Quite fun.


----------



## katherine22

CurvyEm said:


> 3.) Just because a man is an FA don't automatically assume that he will find you attractive. Not all 'normal' men fancy all 'normal' sized girls. So don't accuse them of not being a 'real' FA if they don't fancy you. (Yes, I've seen this happen)




If you are a woman over the age of 50, your attractiveness whether a fat woman of thin plummets.


----------



## mossystate

katherine22 said:


> If you are a woman over the age of 50, your attractiveness whether a fat woman of thin plummets.



I have 3 years and 4 months until I plummet!!!


----------



## katherine22

Caligula said:


> For serious! This is the main thing...I have incredibly high standards. The one friend I have that knows I dig fat chicks (as well as thin chicks) always points out every disgustingly ugly fat gal on the planet to me. I'm like "bro.....just because I dig fat chicks doesn't mean my picky (like Jerry Seinfeld picky) self is gone!"




You have incredibly high standards except when it comes to your description of fat women you are not attracted to. As long as men think that they can speak in public like this, there will be no real size acceptance. Perhaps being a closeted fat admirer is the ultimate in convenience with those men wanting it to keep that way, to have their fat cake and eat it too.


----------



## saucywench

mossystate said:


> I have 3 years and 4 months until I plummet!!!


Yeah...but, then you can fuck freely!!!:bounce::bounce:


----------



## Webmaster

katherine22 said:


> If you are a woman over the age of 50, your attractiveness whether a fat woman of thin plummets.



That is not necessarily true. Attractiveness to the younger crowd perhaps, but not necessarily attractiveness to your contemporaries. One of the really cool things in life is that as we get older, what we consider hot gets older, too.


----------



## mossystate

saucywench said:


> Yeah...but, then you can fuck freely!!!:bounce::bounce:


You are like the Wizard Of Fuck! Yay!



Webmaster said:


> That is not necessarily true. Attractiveness to the younger crowd perhaps, but not necessarily attractiveness to your contemporaries. One of the really cool things in life is that as we get older, what we consider hot gets older, too.



I am counting on this.


----------



## Teresa

Webmaster said:


> .... One of the really cool things in life is that as we get older, what we consider hot gets older, too.



This is so true. In my 30's I'd never consider getting to know or dating a man in his 50's. He would have seemed too much like a "daddy" to me. Yet now that I'm 46 I find men in that age bracket very attractive. Also, I now find it next to impossible to consider a man in his 20's a possible romantic interest. 

Teresa


----------



## Forgotten_Futures

katherine22 said:


> You have incredibly high standards except when it comes to your description of fat women you are not attracted to. As long as men think that they can speak in public like this, there will be no real size acceptance. Perhaps being a closeted fat admirer is the ultimate in convenience with those men wanting it to keep that way, to have their fat cake and eat it too.



Not really... what you're saying is akin to the idea that liking any given body type means finding all people who fit that mold attractive... when there is so much more than body type to what a given person finds attractive.

Frankly, I'd be pretty depressed if someone found ALL fat chicks hot, because that would indicate to me that they were failing to look beyond the fat itself.


----------



## Cors

Forgotten_Futures said:


> Not really... what you're saying is akin to the idea that liking any given body type means finding all people who fit that mold attractive... when there is so much more than body type to what a given person finds attractive.
> 
> Frankly, I'd be pretty depressed if someone found ALL fat chicks hot, because that would indicate to me that they were failing to look beyond the fat itself.



I get your point, but the OP didn't have to refer to anyone who isn't his type as "disgustingly ugly".

P.S. Older women are awesome!


----------



## mergirl

katherine22 said:


> If you are a woman over the age of 50, your attractiveness whether a fat woman of thin plummets.


I wouldnt say this is Fa specific. Actually, i would imagine that more Fa's like older women than non Fa's because their 'fat' sexuality outweighs the age restrictions they would normally have placed on themselves in regards to looking for a partner.


----------



## mergirl

Also, can i say .....i'm pretty impressed this post is 2 years old!! Still 48 years of attractiveness left in it too!! excellent work! 
hmm.. Dawn French is 50 and hot.. though i feel i am repeating myself here a bit!.


----------



## Ho Ho Tai

katherine22 said:


> If you are a woman over the age of 50, your attractiveness whether a fat woman of thin plummets.



She CLAIMS that she is 51 but, by this measure, I think she is only 35.


----------



## Forgotten_Futures

Cors said:


> I get your point, but the OP didn't have to refer to anyone who isn't his type as "disgustingly ugly".
> 
> P.S. Older women are awesome!



And I further get your point... that said, there are "disgustingly ugly" people in all forms; variation knows no bounds. I'm not one to think in those terms, though.


----------



## swamptoad

If a FA loves the sensation of "touch" let he/she embrace that .. (touching holding, hugging .. etc.. )... though .. its also wise for he/she would control their urges and not over do it. And also respectfully do this. :bow:


----------



## gedjt1

SoVerySoft said:


> I think I'd like to elaborate more on my perspective.
> 
> I don't consider an FA who only lusts for SSBBWs to be more of an FA than a bisizual FA, but I do think he has specific tastes. My body has things going on that a smaller BBW doesn't share. I have creases, folds, bulges, and parts that exist only because of my extreme size.
> 
> My comfort zone is knowing that the guy I am with enjoys that, and doesn't expect me to be a fluffy soft larger version of a thin woman. It is almost like I am another species.
> 
> Also, I have limitations, and it helps for me to know that a guy I am with has experience with some of the challenges that face a SSBBW.
> 
> When I was midsize I was not that different from a thin woman - but my parts were bigger and softer. But even then I had trouble being with a guy who was accepting of my size simply because he liked ME. I still needed someone who wanted to be able to grab a handful of belly, and be happy about it.
> 
> Once I knew there were FAs, I couldn't settle for less.
> 
> My last serious boyfriend told me he has been with and enjoyed women of all sizes. While it made me a little leery, I got past it once I learned that his deep down preference is for supersize, and his lust for me was more than obvious. Maybe I resolved it in my mind by assuming that he was just working his way up to me, and my body was what he really wanted.
> 
> And to address your question, Plaid, are you bisizual because you are with someone who is one size, but you fantasize about another size? I don't think so.
> 
> To me, bisizual is someone who is equally drawn to different extremes, usually thin and fat. I don't know if it comes into play as much for different size bbws, to me. I think a fat-loving man can enjoy all flavors of bbws, it is only disconcerting when a guy likes thin and fat.
> 
> I think lots of people fall in love with someone who might not be our physical ideal - even though we are completely attracted to them. For example - a man who marries a woman with large breasts, but his fantasy might be extreme breasts. Enormous breasts will still turn his head and fuel his fantasies, but his (simply) large breasted wife is his love and his reality.



I was scanning through this thread and your post caught my eye, I agree with your observation that a man who is attracted to women of all sizes is probably not a true FA in real sense of the word, For me a straight single man who has always had a strong desire and passion for very big women, a skinny or average size woman doesnt even register on my radar haha. And your other observation that a man who marries or dates a woman with big breasts and his fantasy might be extreme breasts is also very true as it relates to me. Yep I have always lusted after women with truly enormous breasts and I dont mean dd's I mean LL'S or bigger and as a single man looking for a partner I think its important to find a woman who understands that passion and is compatible physically,mentally and spiritually


----------



## Fatcules71

I cannot believe I am just seeing this post. Thank you for the recent replies that brought it to the top of my feed. 

Typically my partners have gained weight while in a relationship with me. It may be because traditionally that happens in relationships and I make it known that I like the fuller female figure and that I am turned on by her growing figure and seeing her eat. 

One of my favorite (not) comments I have heard from several past partners and my current partner after they put on some weight and then tell me they want to lose weight is that “you fell in love with me at a lower weight”. Maybe it is just me but it feels as if I was given a gift and now it is being taken away from me. True, I fell in love with them at a lower weight but now there is even more to love.


----------



## waldo

Fatcules71 said:


> I cannot believe I am just seeing this post. Thank you for the recent replies that brought it to the top of my feed.
> 
> Typically my partners have gained weight while in a relationship with me. It may be because traditionally that happens in relationships and I make it known that I like the fuller female figure and that I am turned on by her growing figure and seeing her eat.
> 
> One of my favorite (not) comments I have heard from several past partners and my current partner after they put on some weight and then tell me they want to lose weight is that “you fell in love with me at a lower weight”. Maybe it is just me but it feels as if I was given a gift and now it is being taken away from me. True, I fell in love with them at a lower weight but now there is even more to love.



I see your point. Pretty much any FA feels the same kind of 'excitement' at experiencing their partner's weight gain (and disappointment with weight loss). But the comment you describe having been told is legitimate. It is kind of like the stereotype of the woman who marries a man with clear character/behavior deficiencies but hoping she can 'change' him for the better. Maybe if you went with someone who was bigger to start, and comfortable with herself, it would just be a better fit.


----------



## Blockierer

SoVerySoft said:


> I think I'd like to elaborate more on my perspective.
> 
> I don't consider an FA who only lusts for SSBBWs to be more of an FA than a bisizual FA, but I do think he has specific tastes. My body has things going on that a smaller BBW doesn't share. I have creases, folds, bulges, and parts that exist only because of my extreme size.
> 
> My comfort zone is knowing that the guy I am with enjoys that, and doesn't expect me to be a fluffy soft larger version of a thin woman. It is almost like I am another species...


I agree with this was SVS wrote. What has always fascinated me on SSBBWs whas the incredibly ability to wobble with their fat bodies. I confess it's arousing to me. No midsize woman can wobble like a SSBBW does. Another point for me is the attention I receive when I'm with my SSBBW in public areas. I love it when people realize that I really love very fat women. And, I'm very proud of me that I managed to come these fantasies true for me that I already had as a young guy.


----------



## Colonial Warrior

One of my joys of being a fat admirer is to find beautifulness in SSBBWs. In this case, the movements of big and fluffy arms, hands, and fingers. Like the ones from this beautiful Canadian who her name is Danielle McAllister. An upper body ballet. It's just poetry in motion!


----------



## luckyfa

1. A fat admirer will always make sure that there‘s plenty of food in the house.
2. He or she will let you eat as much as you want but won‘t necessarily force or persuade you to eat more than you want.
3. He or she will always find pleasure in newly discovering your body as it evolves.
4. A fat admirer will pay attention to your desires, needs and limitations brought about by your fatness.
5. He or she will pay attention to your entire body, not just the big three (belly, butt & thighs), but also to back fat, side rolls, side boobs/moobs (list non-exhaustive)


----------



## TheShannan

luckyfa said:


> 1. A fat admirer will always make sure that there‘s plenty of food in the house.
> 2. He or she will let you eat as much as you want but won‘t necessarily force or persuade you to eat more than you want.
> 3. He or she will always find pleasure in newly discovering your body as it evolves.
> 4. A fat admirer will pay attention to your desires, needs and limitations brought about by your fatness.
> 5. He or she will pay attention to your entire body, not just the big three (belly, butt & thighs), but also to back fat, side rolls, side boobs/moobs (list non-exhaustive)



I can't wait to find someone like this someday!!


----------



## RobertoDeMiami54

stan_der_man said:


> Things to consider about FAs:
> This is the companion list to the FA code of conduct. This is a list of things that fat people should think about when they interact with the FAs in their lives. Things that help FAs to be comfortable with their preference:
> 
> Here's my contribution...
> 
> 1.) Don't always think that you (the fat person) are going to crush or injure a smaller FA. The human body is really quite remarkable in many ways. Constantly dwelling on that can get old after a while, and even seem condescending to a FA. Let the FA have input on what they can handle, then proceed with caution if you are not sure.
> 
> 2.) Don't automatically assume that a FA has malevolent motives. Having a FA offer to purchase an ice cream cone doesn't necessarily mean that they are trying to stuff you full of food. A simple "no thank you" is adequate.
> 
> 
> Please add to the list...



Understand that for a very long time, in many parts of the world, most men were F/A's. Women who were popular with men would today qualify as BBW. The women that Peter Paul Rubens painted were mostly large women, and that was in Western Europe, in the Dutch Republic. In Russia, women were enormous by today's' standards, and I'm talking about women that the Russian Tsars made into their mistresses and girlfriends and even wives. It's said that Catherine the Great was herself a large woman and that one of her lovers was Casanova. 

So we can say that Casanova was an F/A. The Turkish sultans had a big preference for large women. Look at the art of the times, the paintings, the sculptures. Even in Roman times, the Roman emperors preferred their women largely. So we can say that F/A's controlled the Roman Empire.

I'm a rather large man. I'm 6'1"and weigh about 240 lbs. I've had women large and small, and of the women I've been to bed with, the larger women have given me the best sex. That I've had thinner women as girlfriends, well, yes, I've had women of all shapes and sizes as girlfriends and lovers since I was 16. Now, I'm 62, and I still get women of all shapes and sizes liking me which is why I'm still single.


----------



## luckyfa

Colonial Warrior said:


> One of my joys of being a fat admirer is to find beautifulness in SSBBWs. In this case, the movements of big and fluffy arms.




Yeah, that‘s right. She also has a pretty face. Her face is round and fat and her double chin is mind-blowing.


----------

