# What bothers me most about the fat acceptance community



## Happenstance (Jul 24, 2008)

Acronyms.

You've all seen them. Perhaps you've even used them. These vermin have inflitrated every aspect of this messageboard, and their use is only expanding. However, I believe that acronyms are undermining our language, our relatability, and the cause of fat acceptance itself.

The example I like to use for demonstrating the evils of acronyms is AC. As in, 'Jeeves, be a dear and put on the AC.' The phrase AC stands for, 'Air Conditioning', has no substance whatsoever when you take the words individually. There is nothing about the phrase that indicates that such a thing will make the air colder, yet it has become somehow understood. This phantom communication is the sort of thing turning the English language into internet jargon.

In a situation such as our little Dimensions community, acronyms can be excluding. They're cool if you're part of a secret society, and can make you feel important when you know what it means to meet the HP by the AF with FCO.* It's like you're 'in' on something that the rest of the world isn't. But that's not what we're about, is it? Unless I'm mistaken, we don't want to be the only ones accepting people of all sizes, we would rather have everyone accepting people of all sizes. And all the acronyms put me on edge a bit. And not only because I fear that outsiders see 'BBW FA BHM FFA FA LA LA LOL SSBBQ!' and come away from it all thinking that we're a version of LOLCATS, only instead of cats, we use pictures of fat people.

Acronyms are labels. And, if some fat admirer is browsing pornography, yes, it can be convenient to simply type 'BBW' or 'BHM' into the search engine. But, often times, there are people behind those labels. On the spectrum of human interactions, at one end, you have people disrespecting fat people because media pressure and conditioning has taught them to react with derision. On the other end, you have people disrepecting fat people by treating them as sex objects, including the 'chaser' contingent that finds low self-esteem attractive, and I suspect these types overuse the acronyms to depersonalize their victims. The ideal seems to be the middle of the two ends, (though I am not surprised to have seen cases of people choosing to be disrespected as a sex object because it isn't disrepsect because of their weight.) Perhaps by reducing acronym usage, the middle might more effectively distance itself from the ends.

This isn't just about 'Pensta having a pet peeve with acronyms. (I do, however, have a pet peeve with the term 'pet peeve', as well as acronyms.) No... this is more than that. I haven't found the right letters to describe me - I don't know where I fit here, only that I do.

I realize that I may be treading upon prickly ground here, as some members of this board have gone so far as to use these acronyms in their usernames, and to those people, this is not a personal attack on you. As I see it, such people have had to add adjectives next to the acronyms because the acronyms alone were insufficient descriptors - I will not have a problem with an individual because of this. Besides, these names may mean as little to them as 'Happenstance' does to me - Happenstance tells you nothing about me, so I've tried to convey myself more thoroughly through words, for the possibly up to two people who have remembered anything I've posted here.

I don't expect anything to change around here. In general, people like acronyms, and a look at www.acronymfinder.com will show that the trend is toward more, rather than fewer of them. It's just been bothering me lately, and I decided to share my opinion. Anyone in agreement?

(*the Hippopotamus Poacher by the Abandoned Factory with Four Cold Ones)


----------



## LillyBBBW (Jul 24, 2008)

Not to be insensitive but this all seems to me to be so very unimportant. If you don't want to use acronyms don't use them. Yes, I realize my comment is one of those trite internetz things snarky people like to say when they want to support the status quo but in truth I don't really see why this should be a concern. When I'm not on my meds I could swallow a lump of coal and shit diamonds for a week. In that state I might be able to find some potentially harmful aspect of acronyms claiming they single us out even further, therefore helping to marginalize us into neater packages in the long run and perpetuate matters for years to come. Then again I don't see how NOT using them will be much of an improvement. It all seems just a matter of personal taste. If that's the only point you're making then good on you. I do think it's okay for you not to use the acronyms and refer to these things in another way that will be understood by all. Consider it millitant activism for an alternative. 





Happenstance said:


> Acronyms.
> 
> You've all seen them. Perhaps you've even used them. These vermin have inflitrated every aspect of this messageboard, and their use is only expanding. However, I believe that acronyms are undermining our language, our relatability, and the cause of fat acceptance itself.
> 
> ...


----------



## Paquito (Jul 24, 2008)

So the kryptonite of Dimensions, the thing that will destroy it will be...acronyms? Not flame wars, trolls or infiltration of weight loss gurus, but acronyms?
I can see it now: threads collapsing, WTF and FTW setting posts on fire, members screaming for mercy at the hands of LOL and OMG.

The Horror. 
The Horror.


----------



## Dr. Feelgood (Jul 24, 2008)

Granted, it is unlikely that all life on earth will cease because of acronyms. Nevertheless, I think Happenstance has a point. Acronyms are not so much a disease in themselves as a symptom of bureaucracy. Acronyms proliferate in a bureaucracy because bureaucrats like to give long, complicated names to simple things, such as themselves. Then they are faced with spelling these long, complicated names and opt for an acronym instead, so that the Disintegrative Replication Parameter becomes a DRP. Why not just call it a 'durp' in the first place?


----------



## moore2me (Jul 24, 2008)

Happenstance said:


> Acronyms.
> 
> You've all seen them. Perhaps you've even used them. These vermin have inflitrated every aspect of this messageboard, and their use is only expanding. However, I believe that acronyms are undermining our language, our relatability, and the cause of fat acceptance itself.
> 
> ...




Dear Happenstance,

I agree with you that we should cut back on using abbreviations that confuses the majority of our readers. A few problems with writing clearly for the masses (even when acronyms are not used) -

1) Our readers are world-wide. It is extremely difficult to write something that everyone understands or that mean the same around the world. For example, if I write . . . "he's all washed up." This phrase to me means finished, to someone in China, it may mean the man is clean.

2) I work with a lot of government regulations and these old boys are "eat up" with acronyms. I try to spell out the words for folks when I use the initials, but you're right it is annoying. However, I don't think the federal government is going to stop. For example, OSHA, NIOSH, EPA, CDC, PPE, etc.
*Occupational Safety and Health Administration
National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health
Environmental Protection Association
Centers for Disease Control
Personal Protective Equipment*

3) I went back and checked a few of the posts that you wrote lately. I noticed that you used some abbreviations that could confuse some people not completely familiar with the English language. My point is, everyone has their "acronym" issue. You abbreviated -

lbs
porn
PS3
QC
NY
Dec

. . . "I . . .have been to/through Rochester on many a Greyhound." *(Dog?)*

I had wanted to reach 250 by the end of the year, and it looks like I'll more than make it, having gone from 195 to 230 since January. *(250 What? 195 What? 230 What?)*


----------



## Santaclear (Jul 24, 2008)

Don't be an AH (Acronym Hater.)


----------



## LoveBHMS (Jul 24, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> Not to be insensitive but this all seems to me to be so very unimportant. If you don't want to use acronyms don't use them. Yes, I realize my comment is one of those trite internetz things snarky people like to say when they want to support the status quo but in truth I don't really see why this should be a concern. When I'm not on my meds I could swallow a lump of coal and shit diamonds for a week. In that state I might be able to find some potentially harmful aspect of acronyms claiming they single us out even further, therefore helping to marginalize us into neater packages in the long run and perpetuate matters for years to come. Then again I don't see how NOT using them will be much of an improvement. It all seems just a matter of personal taste. If that's the only point you're making then good on you. I do think it's okay for you not to use the acronyms and refer to these things in another way that will be understood by all. Consider it millitant activism for an alternative.



ILY LillyBBW!


----------



## thatgirl08 (Jul 24, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> Not to be insensitive but this all seems to me to be so very unimportant. If you don't want to use acronyms don't use them.



This is basically what I was going to say. I don't think using acronyms or not using them is really going to make any sort of difference. If its your personal preference not to use them, then go for it.


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar (Jul 24, 2008)

The acronyms are even in our DNA. Combinations of A, T, C and G define our very existence.


----------



## UncannyBruceman (Jul 24, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> Not to be insensitive but this all seems to me to be so very unimportant. If you don't want to use acronyms don't use them. Yes, I realize my comment is one of those trite internetz things snarky people like to say when they want to support the status quo but in truth I don't really see why this should be a concern. When I'm not on my meds I could swallow a lump of coal and shit diamonds for a week. In that state I might be able to find some potentially harmful aspect of acronyms claiming they single us out even further, therefore helping to marginalize us into neater packages in the long run and perpetuate matters for years to come. Then again I don't see how NOT using them will be much of an improvement. It all seems just a matter of personal taste. If that's the only point you're making then good on you. I do think it's okay for you not to use the acronyms and refer to these things in another way that will be understood by all. Consider it millitant activism for an alternative.



I kinda of see where he's coming from, though. I don't so much think that acronyms define a secluded secret society as much as I think they take the humanity out of it.

Case in point..."midgets". That noun is used in jest, so the term "little person" became the politically correct label. I saw a biography on this a few years back, and there was a tall man who preferred little women, so he would go to functions and private parties to meet people and support them. His girlfriend was something like 3 feet tall or whatnot. But during the interview, he referred to them as LP's. It's an abbreviation, but, it still can be seen as dehumanizing...after all...you're talking about a PERSON.

Within our community, we more or less have the same thing. The word 'fat' is thrown around here like a hot potato, but not all women are comfortable with using it. And since 'fat' is ALWAYS used in a jestful and/or derogatory context in the outside world, some of us men may feel like we're being more respectful by using the BBW acronym.

I had struggled with that when I first came here. With the girlfriends of my younger years being as self conscious as they were, I wouldn't dare think of calling a girl 'fat'. I had ALWAYS felt that this word should be associated with beauty, but, it wasn't until I spent some time around these boards that I finally felt comfortable using it (and learned how to determine who and who not to use it freely with).

That was ten years ago...now I use it all the time, associating it with beauty, and to summarize a thing of beauty into an acronym (for the sake of being politically correct) seems unjust at times.

Can't really say that it bothers me, but, I can see how someone may not care for it.

__________________________
This musing of FA existentialism has been brought to you by the color purple and the letter Q.


----------



## goofy girl (Jul 24, 2008)

If you ever work for Medicare and they make you sit through a 45 minute cheezy "home made" training seminar video on the importance of using acronyms you'll start to understand why. I'd rather listen to/read/write 2 minutes of acronyms as opposed to 25 minutes of complete words. 

It's not to hide anything, or be secretive, it just saves time. But if that's your biggest annoyance, then you're doing really well LOL


----------



## pickleman357 (Jul 24, 2008)

I agree with Bruceman on this, its not the BBW etc that's a problem. Its labeling someone like that.

To be harsh, its like
"You're a BBW not a real person"
sort of idea

I just think that's the sort of the problem that Happenstance was talking about.


----------



## lostjacket (Jul 24, 2008)

I personally have no problem going by my personal acronym: S.T.U.

I think it tends to work out fairly well.


----------



## Santaclear (Jul 24, 2008)

Happenstance said:


> This isn't just about 'Pensta having a pet peeve with acronyms. (I do, however, have a pet peeve with the term 'pet peeve', as well as acronyms.) No... this is more than that.
> I realize that I may be treading upon prickly ground here, as some members of this board have gone so far as to use these acronyms in their usernames, and to those people, this is not a personal attack on you.



Just a heads up. PP is the correct abbreviation for "pet peeve." 

And "prickly ground" is PG.


----------



## TallFatSue (Jul 24, 2008)

Happenstance said:


> Acronyms.


Yep, acronyms are just plain lazy. Like those people who go *S*elf-*C*ontained *U*nderwater *B*reathing *A*pparatus diving, but can't be bothered to spell out what is, er, spelled out. They're all wet. They think they can stay under the *RA*dio *D*etection *A*nd *R*anging, but they burn me up hotter than a *L*ight *A*mplification by *S*timulated *E*mission of *R*adiation beam! 

That's the sort of *SNAFU*lery up with which I shall not put, *OK*? 

Sue in the good old *USA*.


----------



## moore2me (Jul 24, 2008)

TallFatSue said:


> Yep, acronyms are just plain lazy. Like those people who go *S*elf-*C*ontained *U*nderwater *B*reathing *A*pparatus diving, but can't be bothered to spell out what is, er, spelled out. They're all wet. They think they can stay under the *RA*dio *D*etection *A*nd *R*anging, but they burn me up hotter than a *L*ight *A*mplification by *S*timulated *E*mission of *R*adiation beam!
> 
> That's the sort of *SNAFU*lery up with which I shall not put, *OK*?
> 
> Sue in the good old *USA*.



Sue, I know where you and the others are coming from about acronyms being lazy, but if you do any work for the federal government, one must come to learn them and love them. *You cannot live or prosper in a government related profession without becoming intimate with those "silly" abbreviations.* This includes Medicare (as Goofygirl pointed out) and the military. I can pick up any of my "spellbinding" books from the Federal Register (which by the way are titled 29 CFR)* Title 29 Code of Federal Regulations*. . . . and I bet you five bucks that a randomly selected page will contain at least five acronyms. 

So in response to Happenstance, it's not just the fat community that overuse these little monsters. The US government is probably the #1 user and creator of these cryptic codes. And I doubt if it will stop anytime soon.


----------



## William (Jul 24, 2008)

This might help you.

http://www.acronymfinder.com/

William




Happenstance said:


> Acronyms.
> 
> You've all seen them. Perhaps you've even used them. These vermin have inflitrated every aspect of this messageboard, and their use is only expanding. However, I believe that acronyms are undermining our language, our relatability, and the cause of fat acceptance itself.
> 
> ...


----------



## TallFatSue (Jul 24, 2008)

moore2me said:


> Sue, I know where you and the others are coming from about acronyms being lazy, but if you do any work for the federal government, one must come to learn them and love them.


You do realize I was making a joke? 

Looks like I slipped that under the *RA*dio *D*etection *A*nd *R*anging.


----------



## Chimpi (Jul 24, 2008)

Happenstance said:


> And not only because I fear that outsiders see 'BBW FA BHM FFA FA LA LA LOL SSBBQ!' and come away from it all thinking that we're a version of LOLCATS, only instead of cats, we use pictures of fat people.



I get what you're saying, Happenstance.
I generally have a severe dislike for the use of acronyms and attempt to avoid it regularly. Sure we'll throw some common ones in just to save time or come across as more understood, but I see where you are coming from.

Apart from the fact that every time I see 'LOLCATS' I laugh out loud, I like to think that not everyone will walk away with that thought - we're a bunch of internet 'jargon' users using our acronyms to describe who we are in a silly, timely fashion. I would like to think that more people give it the benefit of the doubt, and I really think that is the case.
Not to mention that, as you probably have already noted for yourself, most people widely use acronyms, welcome the use and will fight for the right to use them. I respect that and understand it, I just wish I understood them more often than not (the acronyms... not the people. Though sometimes I need help on that, too). As an aside, I would never consider myself adept to the English language or proper grammar, but I try to maintain a steady stream of proper sentences and utilization. iFail misrbly.

Lulz I went back and read your 'LOLCATS' sentence. I laughed again.


----------



## Happenstance (Jul 24, 2008)

moore2me said:


> 3) I went back and checked a few of the posts that you wrote lately. I noticed that you used some abbreviations that could confuse some people not completely familiar with the English language. My point is, everyone has their "acronym" issue. You abbreviated -
> 
> lbs
> porn
> ...



So I'm not perfect. I'll throw stones anyhow. I just want to call attention to the fact that the post about Greyhounds (a bus company) uses the word buses in the previous sentence, and the second post is on the third page of a thread where the word 'pounds' ought to be implied if you've read even the first post. And the only acronym you caught me using was PS3, the rest are abbreviations, and none of them describe a person. [Edit: Alright, so that was your point. In conclusion, nyeh.]

Yes, this whole issue isn't really that important, I get it. It bothers me more than anything, which doesn't say much, because few things bother me. If nothing else, I have learned never to apply for a job with Medicare.


----------



## Happenstance (Jul 24, 2008)

TallFatSue said:


> Yep, acronyms are just plain lazy. Like those people who go *S*elf-*C*ontained *U*nderwater *B*reathing *A*pparatus diving, but can't be bothered to spell out what is, er, spelled out. They're all wet. They think they can stay under the *RA*dio *D*etection *A*nd *R*anging, but they burn me up hotter than a *L*ight *A*mplification by *S*timulated *E*mission of *R*adiation beam!
> 
> That's the sort of *SNAFU*lery up with which I shall not put, *OK*?
> 
> Sue in the good old *USA*.



Sue, I realize you're making a joke, but that's part of my point: who actually knows what SCUBA, RADAR, or LASER actually stand for, without looking them up? They have been so integrated into the language that most people aren't even aware that they are acronyms, and have lost the meaning of the words which once stood behind them. That seems to be the point that this thread is making - BBW and BHM now substitute for 'fat woman' and 'fat man' instead of their original meanings.


----------



## olwen (Jul 24, 2008)

Happenstance said:


> Acronyms.
> 
> You've all seen them. Perhaps you've even used them. These vermin have inflitrated every aspect of this messageboard, and their use is only expanding. However, I believe that acronyms are undermining our language, our relatability, and the cause of fat acceptance itself.
> 
> ...



I get where you're coming from. What do you do if those acronyms don't apply to you, and what do you do when not having such a label makes you feel left out of the group? Make your own label or just decide that you don't need a label to still be part of the group. 

I tend to think that if they annoy you just don't use them and if you don't know what one means just look it up. That's what I do. It took me a while to figure out what FWIW means. Eh. 

I don't think however that using acronyms to classify us will stop creeps or sexual predators from objectifying whomever they choose to. Acronyms don't cause them to depersonalize their victims a general lack of respect does. I'd say that attitude was well in place long before they heard the terms. That kind of behavior has been around long before the internet and will continue to be after the internet is gone.

As for language outside an internet context, I'd say don't worry much about that. You may hear the occasional LOL or OMG, as I have, but really most of these internet spawned acronyms usually just don't work well in real life. I'd be more worried about bad grammar, or the use of the word "like" in place of verbs or adjectives in every day parlance, than slang terms anyway.



Dr. Feelgood said:


> Granted, it is unlikely that all life on earth will cease because of acronyms. Nevertheless, I think Happenstance has a point. Acronyms are not so much a disease in themselves as a symptom of bureaucracy. Acronyms proliferate in a bureaucracy because bureaucrats like to give long, complicated names to simple things, such as themselves. Then they are faced with spelling these long, complicated names and opt for an acronym instead, so that the Disintegrative Replication Parameter becomes a DRP. Why not just call it a 'durp' in the first place?



LOL, From now on in order to post you must fill out form P dash FA stroke zed slash alpha dash 3 in triplicate, which must then be approved by an A level Moderator that's ALMOD to you, who then must submit it to the webhost in the form of a PDF (word docs will not be accepted), and in no less than one week your post shall appear. Now if your post happens to be only 10 characters long, you must fill out form P2FA stoke X slash beta dash 10 in duplicate and submit it to a CLMOD for approval and in only 3 days your post will appear. Posting images requires a completely different process takes three times as long....


----------



## olwen (Jul 24, 2008)

Happenstance said:


> Sue, I realize you're making a joke, but that's part of my point: who actually knows what SCUBA, RADAR, or LASER actually stand for, without looking them up? They have been so integrated into the language that most people aren't even aware that they are acronyms, and have lost the meaning of the words which once stood behind them. That seems to be the point that this thread is making - BBW and BHM now substitute for 'fat woman' and 'fat man' instead of their original meanings.



Okay so let's say the words "fat man" and "fat woman" were used in place of BBW or BHM. I can't see how the former terms would be satisfying to everyone. The fact is, not everyone is comfortable with calling themselves fat, unfortunately. Also the former terms are no more descriptive than BBW or BHM, moreover, they can be used with deliberate malice in a way that BBW and BHM can't be - at least to me anyway. 

I would love it if there were non food related terms to describe our shapes. Apple, pear, mango, hot dog, whatever the fuck, but there they are and they are more descriptive than "fat," yet sometimes I cringe inwardly when I hear those words applied. I don't cringe when I hear BBW or BHM.


----------



## pdgujer148 (Jul 24, 2008)

Question about the acronym BBW... Is is plural, singular, or both?

Some people think that BBW means Big Beautiful Woman; other think it means Big Beautiful Women.

For Example: 

"I am met a pretty BBW at Barnes and Noble." Pretty easy to figure out that I mean one person.

"BBW are the greatest!" You pretty much know that means more than one big beautiful woman.

Some people try to pluralize the acronym, but it just sounds wrong....

"Big beautiful "womans / womens" turn me on."

Anyway....


----------



## Chimpi (Jul 24, 2008)

I think it can be both.
I have also seen "BBW's/BHM's are sexy."
My personal opinion is that it is/should be singular: Big Beautiful Woman / Big Handsome Male.


----------



## Dangerous Dan (Jul 24, 2008)

Happenstance said:


> ... BBW and BHM now substitute for 'fat woman' and 'fat man' instead of their original meanings.


I'm not sure how that is deleterious to fat people or misleading to the public at large. I realize your exception is that the acronym makes a qualitative statement (or inference) as opposed to a quantitative one.

Think about this...

Why are the terms "Black" or "African American" more socially acceptable than Negro? It wasn't until the 1960's that the term was deemed a slur instead of just a statement of someone's race like "Caucasian".

Same here. Today the word "fat" is associated with so much negativity. So as long as your meaning is clear - what's the diff?

IMHO FWIW.


----------



## Tina (Jul 25, 2008)

It's just shorthand. Anyone who imbues the acronyms with anything more than that, or sees them as inescapable labels that actually define a person and the quality of their soul, has their own issues. But when all we have is text, it's just plain easier to use the acronym than type it out, IMO.


----------



## Tori DeLuca (Jul 25, 2008)

Happenstance said:


> Acronyms.
> 
> ...
> 
> The example I like to use for demonstrating the evils of acronyms is AC. As in, 'Jeeves, be a dear and put on the AC.' The phrase AC stands for, 'Air Conditioning', has no substance whatsoever when you take the words individually. There is nothing about the phrase that indicates that such a thing will make the air colder, yet it has become somehow understood. This phantom communication is the sort of thing turning the English language into internet jargon.



I get what you are saying except for the above statement... I dont ask to put on the Air conditioning.... I use and put on my AIR CONDITION*ER* which is an object therefore something that needs to be turned on and off.


----------



## Buffie (Jul 25, 2008)

If you don't like acronyms, I strongly suggest you avoid a career in insurance, banking or securities. 

-shudder-


----------



## daddyoh70 (Jul 25, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> Not to be insensitive but this all seems to me to be so very unimportant. If you don't want to use acronyms don't use them.


^Bottom line.^ 
What bothers me most about Fat Acceptance is the lack of it. Everytime I turn on my TV, which is rare, all I see is how the fucking Obesity Research Institute is working to fight the "EPIDEMIC", and how many fucking pills on the market will help us all lose that UGLY fat. If acronyms are your biggest concern, you should really try to delve a little further into the whole Fat Acceptance idea.




> When I'm not on my meds I could swallow a lump of coal and shit diamonds for a week.


On a more serious note, Lilly, if ever a video of this should be made, I would be forever in your debt to find a copy of it in my Inbox, or at least upload it to Clips 4 Sale  . Haven't talked to you in what seems like forever. Hope all is well with you.


----------



## Happenstance (Jul 25, 2008)

daddyoh70 said:


> If acronyms are your biggest concern, you should really try to delve a little further into the whole Fat Acceptance idea.



Thank you for contributing so much to this discussion. Am I talking about anyone outside the community? Is there a rule stating we may only discuss important things? I had 'no' for both.



Tori DeLuca said:


> I get what you are saying except for the above statement... I dont ask to put on the Air conditioning.... I use and put on my AIR CONDITION*ER* which is an object therefore something that needs to be turned on and off.



Meh, 'conditioner', 'conditioning', all the same. My point is that when you put the word 'air' next to the word 'conditioning', suddenly there's the implication that the air is made colder, even though this is nowhere to be found in the individual definitions of the words.


----------



## TallFatSue (Jul 26, 2008)

Happenstance said:


> Meh, 'conditioner', 'conditioning', all the same. My point is that when you put the word 'air' next to the word 'conditioning', suddenly there's the implication that the air is made colder, even though this is nowhere to be found in the individual definitions of the words.


Very true. Gotta love languages. I've always been amused that when people say an alarm went off, they actually mean an alarm went ON. 

As our German-speaking Swiss-American webmaster might attest, it's probably no surprise that this acronymic discussion has caused me so much flak (from the German *Fl*ug*a*bwehr*k*anone, [aircraft defence cannon]).


----------



## CurvaceousBBWLover (Jul 26, 2008)

I doubt that the world will end because of acronyms.


----------



## ravfa (Jul 26, 2008)

As Tina noted, the plethora of acronyms in this community is really just shorthand. Some of the actual terms are a little, um, awkward. I'm a self-identified FA. Does that mean I "admire" fat? No, it means I am attracted to a fat partner. But everyone here knows what FA means, and it's a lot easier & more convenient to use than "Person sexually attracted to a romantic partner of larger than average weight." 

It's the same with the rest of our particular alphabet soup. . .FFA, BBW, SSBBW, BHM, SSBHM, in addition to terms such as Feeder, Feedee, Gainer, Encourager, etc.

I've never thought of them as dehumanizing. They don't have to be limiting either. Yes I'm an FA, but that's not the sum total of who I am. It's an important part of me, but it's not ALL of me. Just as identifying a woman as a BBW isn't a way to label or reduce her for me. . .it's a starting point, a way to say, OK, that's why she's here, and go from there.

Just my largely immaterial point O' view, for what little it's worth.


----------



## CleverBomb (Jul 27, 2008)

CurvaceousBBWLover said:


> I doubt that the world will end because of acronyms.


TEOTWAWKI.
The End Of The World As We Know It
-Rusty


----------



## pdgujer148 (Jul 27, 2008)

CurvaceousBBWLover said:


> I doubt that the world will end because of acronyms.



EOTW!!!


----------



## blahblah007 (Jul 27, 2008)

Hi, this is my first post on the dimensions boards. I hadnt really intended to post on the boards at all when I first joined because frankly, I usually find discussions boards to be flooded with disrespectful or unintelligent comments. However, as I read more of the posts on this site Ive been really impressed. Rather than being horrified, Ive actually wanted to participate. Since language really interests me this seems as good a place to start as any.

Happenstance, while I disagree with many of your points, I think this is a great topic for discussion. While it is somewhat trivial, it can be more if people want to discus it seriously. Its about how we label ourselves, communicate, and appear to outsiders. 

I understand your point about acronyms not really having any meaning, but I think whats more important is that whats being said is comprehended. Language is constantly evolving and perhaps the trend towards more acronyms is just an inevitable step. As societies become more and more specialized I can only see this increasing. However I dont think that means that the words behind them will disappear. Yes there are a few examples where the words behind the acronym have been largely forgotten (RADAR or LASAR, as another poster pointed out), but these seem to me to be rare exceptions. You need to remember that different situations call for a different language register. While I might type LOL or IMHO on a website or chatting with a friend, I would never use those acronyms in a face-to-face conversation or a formal writing assignment. There will always be a place for formal language, but the internet may not be it. 

I really see these acronyms as an extension of slang, specially suited for the internet, rather than a plague upon the English language.

In answer to your idea that terms such as BBW or FA are barriers that keep new people from understanding what were saying, I would have to disagree here as well. Their intended meaning becomes quite clear after reading a few posts, and anyone who is truly interested can look them up in a number of places, as I myself did, and Im sure many others did. Most of the people who stumble upon this community are not complete strangers to the ideas presented here, and those who are, but who do not have the patience to look up a few words probably arent ready to hear what we have to say.

I defend our acronyms because not only are they tools of expediency that I use regularly, I believe they are helpful to the community. Rather than calling someone a fat person, or a chubby chaser or any other term, we can come together under neutral labels. Most of the terms that describe members of this community are quite incendiary, and by using the actual words people are much more likely to get offended. Even the politically correct terms or medical words (such as obese) carry certain connotations, but, with these acronyms, larger men and women get to be BBWs or BHMs and the people that are attracted to them get to be FAs or FFAs. And we all get the anonymity that we desire by choosing screen names.

Its true that not every person fits into these categories perfectly; people are much more complex than any one label could describe, and in this regard acronyms only go so far, but thats why we have conversations and debates such as these - so that we can further define ourselves and understand the diverse group of people who have come together here.



Well thats about all I have to say on this. I could probably keep going, Im a total grammar nerd (as if that wasnt obvious), but its late, and I doubt anyone is still reading this. I seem to have taken a really contrary position here, but, Happenstance, I want to thank you for bringing up the topic. I love debates like this. I just hope my late night ramblings still make sense in the morning. I cant wait to see what others write.


----------



## Happenstance (Jul 27, 2008)

It's just difficult for me to accept the 'Language is an living, evolving thing!' argument when I see the steps being taken as horribly backwards. There may be always a place for formal language, but I feel a hunted, endangered species for using it.

Alright, so here this is.
I am big, at least moderately so.
At least one person has called me beautiful.
At least one person has called me handsome.
I am transgendered.
Acronym me.


----------



## LillyBBBW (Jul 27, 2008)

Happenstance said:


> It's just difficult for me to accept the 'Language is an living, evolving thing!' argument when I see the steps being taken as horribly backwards. There may be always a place for formal language, but I feel a hunted, endangered species for using it.
> 
> Alright, so here this is.
> I am big, at least moderately so.
> ...



BBQT?


----------



## olwen (Jul 27, 2008)

Happenstance said:


> *It's just difficult for me to accept the 'Language is an living, evolving thing!' argument when I see the steps being taken as horribly backwards. There may be always a place for formal language, but I feel a hunted, endangered species for using it.*
> 
> Alright, so here this is.
> I am big, at least moderately so.
> ...



The language is evolving and does evolve constantly. Pick a genre novel written in the early half of the 20th century - and then go thru with an editor's eye and update the language. You'd take out weird spellings (Okeh for Okay) or words and phrases we no longer use (luncheon for lunch, and dame, missus) or some such. They didn't call people, they telephoned and telephone numbers had words. There was a time when consoles had nothing to do with video games and nobody knew what "nuke me up a frozen burrito" could possibly mean. How many people these days know what RKO or RCA means? Everyone knew what they meant in the days before tee-vee (archaic spelling by the way, and noticed how I spelled out btw  ). Go to England 500 years in the past and see how well you can understand the natives even tho you're both speaking english - hell, go today and see how well you can understand each other or if you're from there come here and do that. It drives me crazy that sneakers are tennis shoes and soda is pop or a water fountain is a bubbler. But such is the beauty of any language. One day English will no longer be the language of commerce just as Sumerian or Latin was thousands of years ago and life goes on. 

Eh, my point is that this is just a non-issue when you consider the way language does evolve. One day there may not be a need for size acceptance related jargon, but until then we will continue to make do.

As for an acronym for you how about ABG (androgynous big and gorgeous)?


----------



## sweet&fat (Jul 27, 2008)

People have been decrying the downfall of the English language for centuries. Nothing new. It's often attributed to new technology... the telegraph came out, and critics bemoaned the terse "telegraphic" style that came into vogue. Now it's the internet and text messaging. Sure, these things have an impact on language, but language is and will always be an evolving entity just like any form of human expression. Like it or lump it.



Happenstance said:


> It's just difficult for me to accept the 'Language is an living, evolving thing!' argument when I see the steps being taken as horribly backwards. There may be always a place for formal language, but I feel a hunted, endangered species for using it.
> 
> Alright, so here this is.
> I am big, at least moderately so.
> ...


----------



## TallFatSue (Jul 27, 2008)

sweet&fat said:


> People have been decrying the downfall of the English language for centuries. Nothing new. It's often attributed to new technology... the telegraph came out, and critics bemoaned the terse "telegraphic" style that came into vogue. Now it's the internet and text messaging. Sure, these things have an impact on language, but language is and will always be an evolving entity just like any form of human expression. Like it or lump it.


Yes indeedy. Thanx to my grandparents I can also stumble around reasonably coherently in French and German as well as English. Whenever I hear people complain about our language going to hell in a handbasket (which in itself has to be one of the most delightfully goofy expressions in English), I think: "You have no idea. If only you could expand your frame of reference another language or two. Then you'd see that English by no means has the corner on hellish handbaskets."

In French, one of the more amusing tempests in a teapot was the import of English computer terms like "le hardware" and "le software". Non non non! And so the language police decreed "thou must say 'le matériel' and 'le logiciel' instead" or something to that effect. The funny thing is that in France the average person said au contraire, we'll say what we want; whereas in Québec those accursed English computer phrases were eradicated from their French.

Even funnier, when I'm in France speaking perfectly good French, every so often I'll accidentally slip in a Québécois phrase or two, and see the locals wince, whereupon I immediately realize I've made a _faux pas à la québécoise_. Kinda like in France they say "le week-end" whereas in Québec they say "la fin de semaine" which is indeed correct French, but they just don't say that in France. I think it's great fun.


----------



## sweet&fat (Jul 27, 2008)

I remember it was something like "le baladeur" instead of walkman! Go Academie Francaise! 

How do you type in accents again?



TallFatSue said:


> Yes indeedy. Thanx to my grandparents I can also stumble around reasonably coherently in French and German as well as English. Whenever I hear people complain about our language going to hell in a handbasket (which in itself has to be one of the most delightfully goofy expressions in English), I think: "You have no idea. If only you could expand your frame of reference another language or two. Then you'd see that English by no means has the corner on hellish handbaskets."
> 
> In French, one of the more amusing tempests in a teapot was the import of English computer terms like "le hardware" and "le software". Non non non! And so the language police decreed "thou must say 'le matériel' and 'le logiciel' instead" or something to that effect. The funny thing is that in France the average person said au contraire, we'll say what we want; whereas in Québec those accursed English computer phrases were eradicated from their French.
> 
> Even funnier, when I'm in France speaking perfectly good French, every so often I'll accidentally slip in a Québécois phrase or two, and see the locals wince, whereupon I immediately realize I've made a _faux pas à la québécoise_. Kinda like in France they say "le week-end" whereas in Québec they say "la fin de semaine" which is indeed correct French, but they just don't say that in France. I think it's great fun.


----------



## superodalisque (Jul 27, 2008)

i kinda get what your talking about. i have thought about that a lot myself. i understand the creative nature of words. the question is what do they create? does BBW empower a person or does it objectify? i almost never call myself a BBW. i'm just mainly me. my fat doesn't have so much to do with my identity and experiences in the world. i have a lot of other identities that overpower it. but, i do understand for the purpose of acceptance sometimes people need it as almost a mantra. if a woman is called that often enough she might become that in her own mind. maybe one day the idea of being called "fat" won't be so terrible to her.

i find much fewer positive reasons for the term FA. i often personally wonder why a guy needs the term FA. especially if he just happens to be attracted to women who are fat. but then i'm not a guy and there are a lot of things i don't get about that viewpoint. i'd love it if someone could clear it up for me. often for me the term FA brings up the stereotype of guys who don't see women as people but perveyers of body parts. a lot of guys that are attracted to big women have told me that they don't like that term. they feel that in general it dehumanizes them and makes them suspect to women. instead of being a man who likes her and thinks a particular fat woman is beautiful his preference is often reduced to a fetish directed toward any woman who happens to be packing.


----------



## g-squared (Jul 29, 2008)

i dont think theres anything really that objectifying about using acronyms, nor do i think theyre a detriment to our society/the english language. However, i do think theyre a little annoying, or at least the amount theyre used is. Moderation is the name of the game if you ask me, plz and thx.:bow:


----------



## DuskyJewel (Jul 30, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> Not to be insensitive but this all seems to me to be so very unimportant. If you don't want to use acronyms don't use them. Yes, I realize my comment is one of those trite internetz things snarky people like to say when they want to support the status quo but in truth I don't really see why this should be a concern. When I'm not on my meds I could swallow a lump of coal and shit diamonds for a week. In that state I might be able to find some potentially harmful aspect of acronyms claiming they single us out even further, therefore helping to marginalize us into neater packages in the long run and perpetuate matters for years to come. Then again I don't see how NOT using them will be much of an improvement. It all seems just a matter of personal taste. If that's the only point you're making then good on you. I do think it's okay for you not to use the acronyms and refer to these things in another way that will be understood by all. Consider it millitant activism for an alternative.



Wish I could have said this! As someone fairly new to the entire community, I actually like the acronyms and I do not feel dehumanized in any way. I will admit there is a bit a secret society thing that I like. Maybe it is because I am too new to be jaded, but having a shortcut language makes me feel at home sometimes... sort of the like the pet name you may have for a loved one. It is not about cutting people OUT, but about welcoming people IN.


----------



## Webmaster (Jul 30, 2008)

We're all just us. And in the long run, all real relationships are based on getting along, having things incommon, and respecting and appreciating one another. I think that goes without saying.

That said, I think most of us have some physical preferences. I see nothing wrong with seeking someone who appeals to us both physically and spiritually/intellectually. And since desires and fantasies are usually about the physical aspects, people seek out certain types. For us guys who find fat women sexy and attractive, it can be hard not to be thrilled with all the abundant beauty we see, even if others cannot see it.

So I'd say that women who deny their physical presence and expect to only be appreciated for their inner selves will miss out. It's also a bit vexing to us guys when a woman expects to be admired and catered to, but we're not supposed to express our feelings of thrill and wonder for her fat body.

Do we need labels? We don't. But if we gather or seek others, having some sort of code comes in handy. "BBW" was always better than "FA," but that's just the way it played out. I really don't give it much thought. 



superodalisque said:


> i kinda get what your talking about. i have thought about that a lot myself. i understand the creative nature of words. the question is what do they create? does BBW empower a person or does it objectify? i almost never call myself a BBW. i'm just mainly me. my fat doesn't have so much to do with my identity and experiences in the world. i have a lot of other identities that overpower it. but, i do understand for the purpose of acceptance sometimes people need it as almost a mantra. if a woman is called that often enough she might become that in her own mind. maybe one day the idea of being called "fat" won't be so terrible to her.
> 
> i find much fewer positive reasons for the term FA. i often personally wonder why a guy needs the term FA. especially if he just happens to be attracted to women who are fat. but then i'm not a guy and there are a lot of things i don't get about that viewpoint. i'd love it if someone could clear it up for me. often for me the term FA brings up the stereotype of guys who don't see women as people but perveyers of body parts. a lot of guys that are attracted to big women have told me that they don't like that term. they feel that in general it dehumanizes them and makes them suspect to women. instead of being a man who likes her and thinks a particular fat woman is beautiful his preference is often reduced to a fetish directed toward any woman who happens to be packing.


----------



## CurvaceousBBWLover (Jul 30, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i kinda get what your talking about. i have thought about that a lot myself. i understand the creative nature of words. the question is what do they create? does BBW empower a person or does it objectify? i almost never call myself a BBW. i'm just mainly me. my fat doesn't have so much to do with my identity and experiences in the world. i have a lot of other identities that overpower it. but, i do understand for the purpose of acceptance sometimes people need it as almost a mantra. if a woman is called that often enough she might become that in her own mind. maybe one day the idea of being called "fat" won't be so terrible to her.
> 
> i find much fewer positive reasons for the term FA. i often personally wonder why a guy needs the term FA. especially if he just happens to be attracted to women who are fat. but then i'm not a guy and there are a lot of things i don't get about that viewpoint. i'd love it if someone could clear it up for me. often for me the term FA brings up the stereotype of guys who don't see women as people but perveyers of body parts. a lot of guys that are attracted to big women have told me that they don't like that term. they feel that in general it dehumanizes them and makes them suspect to women. instead of being a man who likes her and thinks a particular fat woman is beautiful his preference is often reduced to a fetish directed toward any woman who happens to be packing.



I strongly agree with you about the term FA. It does sound fetishistic, and I like women who happen to be fat. The fat itself is not the only reason why I would want to be with someone.


----------



## nlittle1011 (Jul 30, 2008)

I think the problem I have with the acronyms BBW/BHM is that terms beautiful and handsome. Not every bbw is beautiful nor is every BHM handsome (the same can be said about skinny people). Why does being larger automatically equate to being beautiful/handsome? I would also be offended if skinny people ran around and classified themselves this way. I would think they were being arrogant. That being said, there ARE many BBW/BHM's that ARE beautiful/handsome, I just wouldn't go as far as to say everyone is, bit of a generalization I am afraid.


----------



## g-squared (Jul 30, 2008)

nlittle1011 said:


> I think the problem I have with the acronyms BBW/BHM is that terms beautiful and handsome. Not every bbw is beautiful nor is every BHM handsome (the same can be said about skinny people). Why does being larger automatically equate to being beautiful/handsome? I would also be offended if skinny people ran around and classified themselves this way. I would think they were being arrogant. That being said, there ARE many BBW/BHM's that ARE beautiful/handsome, I just wouldn't go as far as to say everyone is, bit of a generalization I am afraid.



i agree with this.


----------



## BothGunsBlazing (Jul 30, 2008)

I just want to chime in and say that seeing people with user names like BEAUTIFULBIGBBW drives me fucking insane.

That is all.

Just saying, it's like totally redundant.


----------



## thatgirl08 (Jul 30, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> I just want to chime in and say that seeing people with user names like BEAUTIFULBIGBBW drives me fucking insane.
> 
> That is all.



Hahah. Ditto.


----------



## Tooz (Jul 30, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> I just want to chime in and say that seeing people with user names like BEAUTIFULBIGBBW drives me fucking insane.



Oh yes. I agree as well.


----------



## g-squared (Jul 30, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> I just want to chime in and say that seeing people with user names like BEAUTIFULBIGBBW drives me fucking insane.
> 
> That is all.
> 
> Just saying, it's like totally redundant.



me three!!!

note: ( i actually wasnt 3 exclamation points worth of excited but posts have to be at least 10 characters long.:happy


----------



## Happy FA (Jul 30, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> I just want to chime in and say that seeing people with user names like BEAUTIFULBIGBBW drives me fucking insane.
> 
> That is all.
> 
> Just saying, it's like totally redundant.


 
This is a very common effect of using acronyms. For example, people often talk about their PIN numbers. Of course PIN stands for Personal Identification Number. Others talk about their WAN networks, with WAN standing for Wide Area Network. 

Part of the problem is the too inclusive nature of the acronyms, part is people's failure to recall what the acronym stands for and part is the sense that there is a word missing when one uses an acronym to replace multiple words. Somehow the acronym sounds like an adjective and people feel the need to add something sounding like a noun to the adjective. Perhaps too grammatically challenging, but as we osmose into acronym-land, more and more bizarre iterations of talk speak speech talk to our overloaded timpanic membranes.


----------



## superodalisque (Jul 30, 2008)

Webmaster said:


> We're all just us. And in the long run, all real relationships are based on getting along, having things incommon, and respecting and appreciating one another. I think that goes without saying.
> 
> That said, I think most of us have some physical preferences. I see nothing wrong with seeking someone who appeals to us both physically and spiritually/intellectually. And since desires and fantasies are usually about the physical aspects, people seek out certain types. For us guys who find fat women sexy and attractive, it can be hard not to be thrilled with all the abundant beauty we see, even if others cannot see it.
> 
> ...




i agree to a point. i would never want a woman to deny her physical presence. thats not healthy. but to get lost in it is another thing altogether. she would be living less than half a life. for a woman i think its also a real mistake to think that just because you are a physical fantasy for someone that you can truly satisfy the person or yourself. its only a tiny component of who we truly are for someone who is actually interested in knowing us. i don't think its a good idea to have an imbalance when it comes to your identity as a human being.  i love living in my body. i'm very proud of it. i love sharing my body AND spirit with the lover i happen to be with. if i can't i find it disappointing. i adore being female in every way. for me being fat actually enhances that just like being african american, dark haired ,dark eyed, artistic, intelligent, loving, and a million other things i am. i love bing admired. but i like being admired for all of my characteristics. so if i talk to a guy who finds the fact that i'm fat physically appealing and can voice that but actually has a hard time finding anything else nice to say about me...

i do know that when i'm not appreciated for all that i am, for me ,it feels the same as being with someone who would actually feel disgust for my body, whoever that could POSSIBLY be . i'm not cattle. i'm not simply utilitarian. i don't exist just to fit someone's slot for a fat woman. and i wouldn't care for being treated that way and i wouldn't want to treat a man that way either. BBW and FA acronyms in and of themselves are fine. its the dehumanizing way that people sometimes choose to use and apply them that can be disturbing.


----------



## fatlane (Jul 31, 2008)

If you turn your head to the side, the letter B looks _wonderful._

I therefore approve of all acronyms with a capital B. 

And, if one draws a letter W with a rounded bottom, it looks like a rather lovely rounded bottom.

Therefore, if I see BBW with the right font, I'll be entertained for _hours._

The letter G is also quite interesting to contemplate, as are O, Q, and U. Not so much P, though. I prefer a fuller-figured letter. Preference, not fetish, GOT THAT?

****

The acronyms themselves are part of our little argot. Perhaps one day, they'll be as expressive as Polari... until then, omies and palonies, we'll have to use naff acronyms to cackle about bona jubes and lacoddies.


----------



## Happenstance (Jul 31, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> BBW and FA acronyms in and of themselves are fine. its the dehumanizing way that people sometimes choose to use and apply them that can be disturbing.



Agreed, it's like communism - a decent theory, but ruined in practice.



fatlane said:


> The acronyms themselves are part of our little argot. Perhaps one day, they'll be as expressive as Polari... until then, omies and palonies, we'll have to use naff acronyms to cackle about bona jubes and lacoddies.



...what?


----------



## fatlane (Jul 31, 2008)

He. Polari is the language used in the British homosexual community, particularly in the 60s and 70s. It allowed them to notice who was actively gay and discuss things of mutual interest without alerting an otherwise disapproving public to what was going on.

Acronyms are a form of language, but they're like profanity: the ideas they can express are limited and limiting.

For me, I like a bit of fluffy, if you know what I mean and if you do know what I mean, you like a bit of fluffy as well.


----------



## olwen (Jul 31, 2008)

To say that the terms BBW and BHM are dehumanizing is to take some of the responsibility off of the person who might feel that way....It's like you're saying the person may dehumanize a fat person _because _they see/read/hear/use the terms. To me this is like saying if a woman dresses provocatively then it's her fault if she gets raped, which is of course untrue.

Yes these terms are tools and as with any tool can be used for purposes for which they were not intended, but then should we suddenely stop using a tool if it can used as a weapon? 

That we end up using acronyms is irrellevant when you start talking about taking the humanity out of a person. I doubt that being able to call me a BBW would have stopped any of the guys who only wanted me for sex to not express that somehow. I don't place blame for that attitude on the acronyms, I place it on the men themselves for being selfish and insensitive in the first place.


----------

