# Sad secret on post secret this morning.



## MisticalMisty (Apr 22, 2007)

I saw this secret this morning. It's sad.


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## Tooz (Apr 22, 2007)

Well, he deserves to be sad and pining away for someone, then. I have no patience for people like that. "Oh, boo hoo, my FRIENDS made me do it and I have no spine, wah wah wah."


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 22, 2007)

Tooz said:


> Well, he deserves to be sad and pining away for someone, then. I have no patience for people like that. "Oh, boo hoo, my FRIENDS made me do it and I have no spine, wah wah wah."



She doesn't though..and that's what makes me sad. Been there..done that..hopefully some of the new, "closeted" FAs around here are getting the message..

Let's hope!


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## Tooz (Apr 22, 2007)

MisticalMisty said:


> She doesn't though..and that's what makes me sad. Been there..done that..hopefully some of the new, "closeted" FAs around here are getting the message..
> 
> Let's hope!



Well, as for the girl, I hope she realised he was a spinless loser and moved on to a better man maybe. :batting:


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## alienlanes (Apr 22, 2007)

MisticalMisty said:


> I saw this secret this morning. It's sad.



I don't know whether to say  or . But ehh, I hope she gets over him quickly, 'cause she deserves someone better.

It sounds like something from an after-school special , but I always want to say it to guys like this: dude, if that's how your "friends" treat you, then _they're not really your friends_.


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## AtlasD (Apr 22, 2007)

He should have ditched his so called "friends" and stayed with the lady. She can (and will) do better-


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## Blackjack (Apr 22, 2007)

Didn't we have that kid on here a few weeks ago?


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## loveembig (Apr 22, 2007)

What an IDIOT! But I do find the childlike scrall interesting :blink: .

Loveembig


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Apr 22, 2007)

Guys, it could be a 12 year old kid writing in. Just saying.


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## Waxwing (Apr 22, 2007)

i love postsecret. it almost always makes me cry. there's now a big coffee table book of the most interesting secrets from the years they've been doing it.


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## Arrhythmia (Apr 22, 2007)

Take a look at the words Fat Girl and Love. Not only are they capitalized, but underlined, as well. Those are two issues obviously bothering this kid. Probably running through his head are, "Can I love a fat girl?" and "Is it worth loving this fat girl and giving up all my friends?"
What a dilemna for a immature mind...


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## BigBeautifulMe (Apr 22, 2007)

Ha, I didn't see this til just now, and I posted about it on the IC thread. It looks exactly like my ex-boyfriend's handwriting, and that is precisely the reason he broke up with me (though he would never admit it). He was young when we were dating - only 21 or so - and definitely hadn't learned to stand up to his friends yet. It was quite sad. I knew, though, that if he didn't have the guts to stand up to his friends about it, our relationship (even though it lasted two years, and was full of love right up to the end) would never make it. Even though it looks like his handwriting, I don't think it's him, as Michigan would have no significance. I hope this girl, whoever she has, has already figured out what I have - dating guys who can't/won't stand up for you is just not worth it.


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 22, 2007)

Waxwing said:


> i love postsecret. it almost always makes me cry. there's now a big coffee table book of the most interesting secrets from the years they've been doing it.



I have the first 2 books..I'm hoping the third comes as a birthday gift..lol..but I'm sure it won't..unless I get it.

I absolutely love that site and have been reading it every Sunday for I think 2 years now..wow


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## rubenesque (Apr 22, 2007)

that is really heartbreaking. i have no pity for whoever wrote it...but the concept is just so saddening.


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## supersoup (Apr 22, 2007)

Waxwing said:


> i love postsecret. it almost always makes me cry. there's now a big coffee table book of the most interesting secrets from the years they've been doing it.



I MUST HAVE IT.


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## wrestlingguy (Apr 22, 2007)

Can somebody find this guy & send him to me for a day or so?? I'll straighten him right out, I promise......................:wubu:


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## activistfatgirl (Apr 22, 2007)

Shit! That's coming from Michigan. *looks around suspiciously*


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## Mia Davina (Apr 22, 2007)

Tooz said:


> Well, he deserves to be sad and pining away for someone, then. I have no patience for people like that. "Oh, boo hoo, my FRIENDS made me do it and I have no spine, wah wah wah."



here here, dood! Here friggin' Here!


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## toni (Apr 22, 2007)

This makes me sick. DUDE! Grow a backbone!


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## Jack Skellington (Apr 22, 2007)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Guys, it could be a 12 year old kid writing in. Just saying.



Nonsense! If it's on the internet it must be true!  

BTW: Just what the Hell is post secret anyway?


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## Spanky (Apr 23, 2007)

activistfatgirl said:


> Shit! That's coming from Michigan. *looks around suspiciously*



Thought this might be a BETTER postcard for Michigan. And maybe if he had looked at the postcard, he'da grown himself one backbone!





Note to OP: I am not trying to take away from the serious point of the post. Just adding a little levity.


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 23, 2007)

Spanky said:


> Note to OP: I am not trying to take away from the serious point of the post. Just adding a little levity.



Yeah, Yeah..whatever 

I would like to add that these types of things are what make Dimensions so important. I'm not excusing the behavior by any means, but just like fat girls have a journey to self acceptance, FAs have their own journey. No matter his age, he does have some growing up to do..and hopefully he's realized that his friends are assholes and that he needs to stand up for what he wants.

It's a process. There should be some sort of manual or something for FAs..lol.


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## activistfatgirl (Apr 23, 2007)

Spanky said:


> Thought this might be a BETTER postcard for Michigan. And maybe if he had looked at the postcard, he'da grown himself one backbone!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah ha ha ha ha ha, I can't believe that asshole dumped me. I mean, c'mon, look at that!


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## EtobicokeFA (Apr 23, 2007)

MisticalMisty said:


> Yeah, Yeah..whatever
> 
> I would like to add that these types of things are what make Dimensions so important. I'm not excusing the behavior by any means, but just like fat girls have a journey to self acceptance, FAs have their own journey. No matter his age, he does have some growing up to do..and hopefully he's realized that his friends are assholes and that he needs to stand up for what he wants.
> 
> It's a process. There should be some sort of manual or something for FAs..lol.



I like the idea of a training course for FAs. 

I don't know about this guy. But when I went to school there was a lot of pressure for everyone to be homogeneous. I had to learn to grow a backbone myself, and I think we should be teach kids to grow one as well.


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## Paw Paw (Apr 23, 2007)

activistfatgirl said:


> Shit! That's coming from Michigan. *looks around suspiciously*



I aint me!

Peace,
2P.


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## alienlanes (Apr 23, 2007)

EtobicokeFA said:


> I like the idea of a training course for FAs.
> 
> I don't know about this guy. But when I went to school there was a lot of pressure for everyone to be homogeneous. I had to learn to grow a backbone myself, and I think we should be teach kids to grow one as well.



That might not be a bad idea. Maybe it should be a stickied thread in the Weight Board -- that way nervous lurkers might stumble across it when they come looking for pr0n. (Not that anyone ever does that, of course .)

Spanky, AFG -- all I have to say is, that picture adds a whole new layer of meaning to what the original postcard says about Michigan being "a fascinating atmosphere in which to live or visit" .

Obligatory on-topic comment: TSL might be right about his being a very young kid, since he's got that grade-school sort of handwriting. But at least that means he's still got plenty of time to get his act together.


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## PhillyFA (Apr 23, 2007)

It kills me that a guy worries more about what his friends think or say, rather than his own feelings and desires. Grow a set of balls. If this guy loved the woman like he claims, then there should be nothing, and I mean absolutely NOTHING that should stand in his way of being with her. He obviously doesn't know what true love means. And if they are friends, then they wouldn't say anything to him about dating a fat girl. Sounds to me like this hump hangs around with a bunch of puds. What he should be doing is sticking with the girl, and dumping his friends. Who needs that bullshit?


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## EtobicokeFA (Apr 23, 2007)

SlackerFA said:


> That might not be a bad idea. Maybe it should be a stickied thread in the Weight Board -- that way nervous lurkers might stumble across it when they come looking for pr0n. (Not that anyone ever does that, of course .)
> 
> Spanky, AFG -- all I have to say is, that picture adds a whole new layer of meaning to what the original postcard says about Michigan being "a fascinating atmosphere in which to live or visit" .
> 
> Obligatory on-topic comment: TSL might be right about his being a very young kid, since he's got that grade-school sort of handwriting. But at least that means he's still got plenty of time to get his act together.



Yes, the will do! Except that I might be skimmed over by those "not" looking for pr0n.


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## Emy (Apr 23, 2007)

You know, everyone is railing at the guy for dumping the girl because his friends said so, but for those of you who don't remember how highschool was, or even for that case- being an adolescent was- the boy is probably under as much stress as the girl was.

To be disowned by your friends for someone you like can be hard, trust me.

Yes, he was spineless, but peer pressure is a bitch, to put it mildly.

And, the fact that he posted it means something.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Apr 23, 2007)

Emy's right! Every one of us, at any given moment, is doing his or her best. It's just that maturity is like any other skill: some have more talent for it than others. The upside is that, even if you're a complete jerk, you have the possibility of improvement.


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## The Orange Mage (Apr 23, 2007)

In my experience, the average male doesn't get a grasp of common sense until about ages of 28-35. :doh:

My signature explains part of the problem.


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## Spanky (Apr 24, 2007)

SlackerFA said:


> Spanky, AFG -- all I have to say is, that picture adds a whole new layer of meaning to what the original postcard says about Michigan being "a fascinating atmosphere in which to live or visit" .


 
I was thinking of "Michigan" and "unspoiled wilderness and wildlife" and thought of AFG. The post card felt more LP. If it was more yooper in nature then I'd have a pic of Rip representing (if one existed!). 

On topic, I do think that it is tough to demand a teen to be fully shed of peer pressure, which is what this is. If this was a 25 or 35 year old, the gravity of what was written would be apparent.


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## Mitchapalooza (Apr 24, 2007)

how did you get this so quick I just saw it today! on katie kurick 
did you see the dial a friend guy?


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## GWARrior (Apr 24, 2007)

Emy said:


> You know, everyone is railing at the guy for dumping the girl because his friends said so, but for those of you who don't remember how highschool was, or even for that case- being an adolescent was- the boy is probably under as much stress as the girl was.
> 
> To be disowned by your friends for someone you like can be hard, trust me.
> 
> ...




right on! Its so easy for everyone to say "Grow a spine, loser!" but when it all comes down to it, WE aren't the ones in the particular situation.

Peer pressure makes kids do crazy things. Im sure we can all think of something insane we did when we were younger...


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## BigBeautifulMe (Apr 24, 2007)

Uh, no. Instead we're the ones who don't have the CHOICE as to whether we want to be ostracized by our peers or not.


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## GWARrior (Apr 24, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Uh, no. Instead we're the ones who don't have the CHOICE as to whether we want to be ostracized by our peers or not.



so you're friends never got you to do anything that wasnt too smart? Oh, you're perfect. I get it.


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## Luvs2laff (Apr 24, 2007)

Playing devil's advocate, Ginny, isn't it possible that, on some level, it is just as hard (or maybe harder) to deal with the pressure when you have a choice to avoid it? Not to minimize at all the social pressures resulting from being an SSBBW, but as you correctly point out, you don't have a choice. The prejudice against the obese is something you have to deal with. You are forced to develop a thick skin. On the other hand, a budding FA is forced to make a choice between taking the hard road, making his preference known and living with the consequences, or he has an easy out and can just hide how he feels. But even that is not without stress, as he has to hide part of his personality. I am not going to try to pretend it is like being in the closet and not letting people know you are gay, but it is a bit like that, if to a much lesser degree.

Ultimately, I don't think it is possible to say who has it worse. The prejudice against fat people - and the people who love them - stinks no matter who faces it. Everyone faces challenges, and it is how you react to them that is important.


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## Blackjack (Apr 24, 2007)

In this case, I don't know that it really matters all that much about who has it worse. There's more than enough discussion on that in other threads.

Point is that he could be a kid in high school and caved in to peer pressure. That wouldn't make him a spineless asshole, it would make him a teenager.


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## BigBeautifulMe (Apr 24, 2007)

Luvs2laff said:


> Playing devil's advocate, Ginny, isn't it possible that, on some level, it is just as hard (or maybe harder) to deal with the pressure when you have a choice to avoid it?



Absolutely not. I believe this now, and I will believe this forever, because it is true. I have said it a million times on this board.

It is, of course, tough being an FA and facing the prejudice that comes along with that. Being judged for being the person you are is ridiculous and stupid, and no one deserves it. However, unless you happen to be kissing a fat girl at the time, people walking past you on the street don't know you're an FA. You don't face that prejudice every moment of every day from total strangers, because they don't KNOW you're an FA. The only people who know it, and can therefore judge you for it, are people you choose to tell. I cannot choose to hide my size from anyone (not that I would - but I don't get that choice). 

To use your analogy - if being a closet FA is like being gay and in the closet, being a BBW is like have GAY tattooed on your forehead in rainbow letters, in a society where it is still perfectly PC and, indeed, mainstream and encouraged, to look down on people for their sexual orientation. (To all my GLBTQ friends: PLEASE know that I am in no way discounting the prejudice you face. I realize that discrimination and prejudice are still quite alive and well in regards to sexual orientation, and I am not meaning to minimize that - I am only trying to use the same analogy in an understandable way).

Have a mob of people gang up on you and stone you for your preferences (as I was stoned for my appearance) and then we'll talk about it being harder to deal with the pressure as an FA.


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## lemmink (Apr 25, 2007)

Sometimes your friends and your life are more important than your girlfriend. That's just the way life is. I didn't tell anyone until I found someone who was more important.


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## toni (Apr 25, 2007)

Luvs2laff said:


> Playing devil's advocate, Ginny, isn't it possible that, on some level, it is just as hard (or maybe harder) to deal with the pressure when you have a choice to avoid it? Not to minimize at all the social pressures resulting from being an SSBBW, but as you correctly point out, you don't have a choice. The prejudice against the obese is something you have to deal with. You are forced to develop a thick skin. On the other hand, a budding FA is forced to make a choice between taking the hard road, making his preference known and living with the consequences, or he has an easy out and can just hide how he feels. But even that is not without stress, as he has to hide part of his personality. I am not going to try to pretend it is like being in the closet and not letting people know you are gay, but it is a bit like that, if to a much lesser degree.
> 
> Ultimately, I don't think it is possible to say who has it worse. The prejudice against fat people - and the people who love them - stinks no matter who faces it. Everyone faces challenges, and it is how you react to them that is important.





GWARrior said:


> right on! Its so easy for everyone to say "Grow a spine, loser!" but when it all comes down to it, WE aren't the ones in the particular situation.
> 
> Peer pressure makes kids do crazy things. Im sure we can all think of something insane we did when we were younger...




I think you two are giving these closeted FA's too much "understanding". They are hurting innocent women and they are hurting themselves. FOR WHAT? Just so people do not think poorly of them? IT IS RIDICULOUS and I am quite sick of it. I see this all the time. The fat girl always has to suffer because these men (for lack of a better word) can not take a stand. Maybe they might catch some hell in the beginning but I am sure it would die down after a while. I MEAN COME ON! I think the harassment and discrimination encountered by someone who is homosexual is way worse than it is for a man dating a fat chick. I know you did not imply that it was the exact same thing but I do not think it is a valid comparison. I have no respect or sympathy for them.


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## GWARrior (Apr 25, 2007)

toni said:


> I think you two are giving these closeted FA's too much "understanding". They are hurting innocent women and they are hurting themselves. FOR WHAT? Just so people do not think poorly of them? IT IS RIDICULOUS and I am quite sick of it. I see this all the time. The fat girl always has to suffer because these men (for lack of a better word) can not take a stand. Maybe they might catch some hell in the beginning but I am sure it would die down after a while. I MEAN COME ON! I think the harassment and discrimination encountered by someone who is homosexual is way worse than it is for a man dating a fat chick. I know you did not imply that it was the exact same thing but I do not think it is a valid comparison. I have no respect or sympathy for them.



Im willing to bet a lot of money that the person who wrote that post secret was hardly a "man". Comes off as a teenage boy. And teenage boys do immature things because they are teenage boys.

But what do I know? Ive never been discriminated against because of my size.


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## Blackjack (Apr 25, 2007)

toni said:


> I think you two are giving these closeted FA's too much "understanding".



Let's not understand them! Let's just hate them instead!


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## GWARrior (Apr 25, 2007)

Blackjack said:


> Let's not understand them! Let's just hate them instead!



apparently its the easier of the two.  

sucks.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Apr 25, 2007)

I agree that teen boys are probably subject to changes with life experience but still have issues myself with the closet people. If other people think it's okay to have a friendship with someone that is ashamed of them, then to each their own. I have too many of my own self esteem issues to be part of some sh*t like that though and I find it hard to respect those people, too.

It also pisses me off when I see, what I perceive to be, women told they are "not allowed' or "should not feel" that way towards those people- the issue should be taken with the offender- not the offended, IMO.

No one asked the guy to wear a shirt saying "I love fat girls" - he does seem like a total asshole though to be willing to hurt a person simply because of weight.


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 25, 2007)

MisticalMisty said:


> I saw this secret this morning. It's sad.



Guy made his own choice...he is the stupid ones, not his friends.

Make your own damn choices, and don't blame others for your stupidity...it is yours...embrace it and learn to live with it.

And if his friends mock him for his choice, what kind of friends are they?


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 25, 2007)

Ok, Ok, Ok. As fat girls, we've all been there at one point in our lives. There was a guy that we were into..that seemed into us...but it was a secret to everyone but us. I get that, we all get that.

I am no way a supporter of people who live their life for other people.


However, I am a supporter of boys and young men who are on their own path to accepting their preference and being loud and proud FAs.

We can't have a "burn them at the stake" mentality when it comes to young FAs. Dimensions needs to be a place where young men and women can be educated about this life and community. They need a place where they can find support for their journey.

Do I think this guy made a bad choice? Yes. Do I think he regrets it? Yes. Is this maybe the wake up call he needed to realize that he can't live his life worrying about what other people think? Hopefully. 

I'd like to think that if he was a lurker, he would be able to read posts similar to this one or many of the others from FAs who are "out" about their preference and finally realize that they aren't weird and they shouldn't worry about what others think about the person they choose to date.

ETA: As women, we have a responsibility to not allow ourselves to date men who are "ashamed" of us. We have a responsibility not to allow things such as hogging and couch dating and all those other horrible, horrible things to occur. If you are a confident fat girl and you know a girl who struggles with self esteem and confidence, turn them onto this site, or ones similar. Let them know that they deserve and should DEMAND the respect of the men in their lives. It starts with one. If we are going to change the way men *and society* treat us, it's going to have to start with us.


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## toni (Apr 25, 2007)

Blackjack said:


> Let's not understand them! Let's just hate them instead!




Someone who is that self centered does not deserve my understanding. They are not being true to themselves or the women they are hurting. I am not only talking about the person who wrote this post card, I am talking about closeted FA's as a whole. They leave a long line of broken hearts behind them AND IT SUCKS. So yes, I will hate them and YES I will not try to understand them. DO they try and understand the BBW's they hurt?


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## toni (Apr 25, 2007)

GWARrior said:


> But what do I know? Ive never been discriminated against because of my size.



Exactly! Wait until the day it happens to you. Let's see if you will be singing the song of understanding. 
I have been through it and I have seen it with friends way too many times. It is a very sad sad thing. It is not something that "just happens" either. It is cold and calculated.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Apr 25, 2007)

MisticalMisty said:


> Ok, Ok, Ok. As fat girls, we've all been there at one point in our lives. There was a guy that we were into..that seemed into us...but it was a secret to everyone but us. I get that, we all get that.
> 
> I am no way a supporter of people who live their life for other people.
> 
> ...




You know Misty- I agree with you - to an extent. I understand the point made by you and others and can appreciate your input and opinions. 

But.............. I still have a BIG problem with this. Why? Because I saw in this thread, and another one recently, where a BBW comes in, say they don't understand why everyone wants to bend over backwards for a guy that admits he is ashamed to be seen with one of us and people come out and tell us we are somehow "wrong" to feel this way. I don't think we are wrong at all- matter of fact, it seems quite ILLOGICAL for others on a site that is to promote fat acceptance to suggest we have no good reason or right to express our thoughts/feelings about these individuals.
IF this person, whom is from another site and may not even be on this board, is around, why is it my or any other BBW's responsibility to welcome him? Did anyone personally attack him? No..... it seems so wrong to try and squelch the opinions of people that have had dealings with these type of individuals. 
You put an addendum on the bottom of your post about "allowing" ourselves to be treated badly- I concur with that but isn't telling women that they should be "more welcoming" to these kind of guys just so they "might one day accept us if we're lucky" just as bad? I find that attitude towards BBW's not only insulting and appalling but also disheartening- especially when it is coming off this site. Isn't this supposed to be one of the places in the world where we are not put down for being what and who we are- yet we're being told to shut up and welcome those that openly admit their shame about being attracted to us. 
These are my true feelings about the subject- I hope to not personally offend anyone but I'm not going to sit and shut up while I see others being squelched simply for speaking out for themselves. And once again, that whole attitude offends me to no end.


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## rainyday (Apr 26, 2007)

MisticalMisty said:


> Ok, Ok, Ok. As fat girls, we've all been there at one point in our lives. There was a guy that we were into..that seemed into us...but it was a secret to everyone but us. I get that, we all get that.
> 
> I am no way a supporter of people who live their life for other people.
> 
> ...



What she said, including the edit. Great post, Misty. 

Not everyone intuitively knows how to walk the walk, and "You're a stupid ass" does nothing to teach them.


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 26, 2007)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You know Misty- I agree with you - to an extent. I understand the point made by you and others and can appreciate your input and opinions.
> 
> But.............. I still have a BIG problem with this. Why? Because I saw in this thread, and another one recently, where a BBW comes in, say they don't understand why everyone wants to bend over backwards for a guy that admits he is ashamed to be seen with one of us and people come out and tell us we are somehow "wrong" to feel this way. I don't think we are wrong at all- matter of fact, it seems quite ILLOGICAL for others on a site that is to promote fat acceptance to suggest we have no good reason or right to express our thoughts/feelings about these individuals.
> IF this person, whom is from another site and may not even be on this board, is around, why is it my or any other BBW's responsibility to welcome him? Did anyone personally attack him? No..... it seems so wrong to try and squelch the opinions of people that have had dealings with these type of individuals.
> ...



I never once said anything about how a fat girl should accept him so he'll date her. I never once said that we should welcome him because the pool of FAs is so shallow.

We need to welcome them, point them to threads where other men have been out and about with their preference, or the 100s of threads that discuss the topics of FAs "coming" out of the closet to EDUCATE THE BOYS! When I say welcome them, I don't mean welcome them into your pants or into your own personal life. I mean welcome them to this community. Let's educate them about the dos and don'ts of dating fat girls. Let's introduce them to the concept of CONFIDENT women who won't put up with dating someone ashamed of them. In order to change the behavior, you've got to educate the person and show them the more desirable behavior.

I'm by no means discounting the feelings of other fat girls. I've been fat for 25 years. My torment started in the first grade when a little boy called me big apple and it went on to be riverhorse all thru middle school and then just things such as fat bitch. I've dated a guy who was totally ashamed of me and I made myself a promise it would never happen again. 

We've all been there. If we want the next generation to not experience everything we have, we have to help change the behaviors. We have to make sure the guys know that we aren't going to stand for it and direct them to places to find the information and support they need.

I'm not excusing the guy's behavior. I've said that already. However, if a newbie were to show up today with the same dilema, I'm not going to jump down his throat and shove his insecurities at him. 

It's hard being a non-comformist. Openly dating fat girls is being a non-comformist. It's not easy and it takes a strong individual to be out and open about it. As a fat chick, I've had 25 years to get used to my body, to get used to the taunts and the names..and the discrimination. That's a lot for a boy at a young age to handle. I'm just saying, instead of immediately being angered about what's going on, let's try to educate them and get them on the path of self acceptance.


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 26, 2007)

rainyday said:


> Not everyone intuitively knows how to walk the walk, and "You're a stupid ass" does nothing to teach them.



Exactly. I'm getting ready for work, so I can't post much else this morning, but exactly..LOL


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## toni (Apr 26, 2007)

rainyday said:


> What she said, including the edit. Great post, Misty.
> 
> Not everyone intuitively knows how to walk the walk, and "You're a stupid ass" does nothing to teach them.




WOW! We have teach these "men" how to treat fat girls with respect? Teach them not to take advantage of someones love and affection? We have to teach them to stand up for what they want and believe in? I think that is ridiculous! You can not teach someone such things. You can not "show them the way". What these men do is very cruel, the behavior should not be excused because we assume they are ashamed or are feeling peer pressure. They need to be held accountable for their actions and their flaws. Coddling these types of offenders is only perpetuating the problem.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Apr 26, 2007)

I have no issues with people wanting to show these guys "a better way". I'm happy to hear that and commend people who wish to do that. 
What I am taking issue with is how I see the women who don't wish to do that being told they should not express their feelings about these people- THAT IS WRONG, IMO. 
No one is telling any of these new guys to shut up so why are the women being told to do so? Why are they getting jumped on by a collective group in order to protect these people that have openly expressed shame at being seen with a larger woman? 
Part of the big problem with those guys is that they listen to others opinions about fat people being "bad", "ugly" "stupid" etc and feel like it reflects on them somehow. So some of the women here don't feel like "proving" themselves otherwise- and there is not a damn thing wrong with that. Personally, if someone wants to "change" someone somehow then more power to them, however there are others who KNOW from personal experience that you CANNOT change people. When and if he ever actually is ready to change- then that will come from inside him- not from women on a website hoping to "prove" something to him. I'm glad there are "nice" FAs here to perhaps speak with him and help him on his journey- but others are also allowed their opinions, too and should be allowed to express them openly. 


Btw, I repped Misty for her post because I have nothing against her personally and respect her for her good intentions in this matter- I, and some others, just happen to disagree.


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## Blackjack (Apr 26, 2007)

I am so absurdly glad that I stopped being so shy before I came here, and that I stopped caring what my friends thought. Otherwise I apparently would be the scum of the earth, baby-eating, father-raping, worthless shit who doesn't deserve anything but to be pissed on.

Even though I was scarcely out of high school at the time.

And let's not forget that high school is cliques, peer pressure, and every damn immature thing that might stop people from actually growing up about this stuff.

So thank you very much for helping me realize that when I was younger, I was unworthy to eat rat shit.


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## Brenda (Apr 26, 2007)

""ETA: As women, we have a responsibility to not allow ourselves to date men who are "ashamed" of us. We have a responsibility not to allow things such as hogging and couch dating and all those other horrible, horrible things to occur. If you are a confident fat girl and you know a girl who struggles with self esteem and confidence, turn them onto this site, or ones similar. Let them know that they deserve and should DEMAND the respect of the men in their lives. It starts with one. If we are going to change the way men *and society* treat us, it's going to have to start with us.""

You kinda lost me with this part, on one hand fa's need room to grow and learn, agreed. BBW's on the other hand have a "responsibility" to not be taken in by fa's who have not yet have learned and grown?

Both parties have a responsibility to treat each other and themselves with dignity. While I have empathy for a guy who allows the opinions of others to come in between his happiness, I have more for girl he left behind. Maybe because I have been that girl.

Fat woman should not let men use them. Men should not use fat women. Equal responsibility but not getting used is more difficult because closeted fa's don't come with a warning. 

Brenda


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Apr 26, 2007)

Blackjack said:


> I am so absurdly glad that I stopped being so shy before I came here, and that I stopped caring what my friends thought. Otherwise I apparently would be the scum of the earth, baby-eating, father-raping, worthless shit who doesn't deserve anything but to be pissed on.
> 
> Even though I was scarcely out of high school at the time.
> 
> ...




I must have missed something- who here ever said anything along those lines to anyone?


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## Blackjack (Apr 26, 2007)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I must have missed something- who here ever said anything along those lines to anyone?





> Someone who is that self centered does not deserve my understanding.





> So yes, I will hate them and YES I will not try to understand them.





> the behavior should not be excused because we assume they are ashamed or are feeling peer pressure.





> Coddling these types of offenders is only perpetuating the problem.



Okay, so it was directed far more towards Toni than anyone else.

Although I agree for the most part about closeted FA's- especially the ones who hurt others- I simply *cannot* agree when teenagers are included in this generalization.

And yes, my post was an over-the-top exaggeration.


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 26, 2007)

Brenda said:


> Fat woman should not let men use them. Men should not use fat women. Equal responsibility but not getting used is more difficult because closeted fa's don't come with a warning.
> 
> Brenda



Exactly. We can't bitch and moan about the way men treat us as fat women, if we enable them to treat us that way. You may not personally allow that, but there are girls and women who still feel the need to validate themselves by sleeping with any guy that looks their way at a bar. That's where the demanding respect comes in to play. That's why Dimensions is such a crucial place for these girls to come and to see confident fat women and those on their journey to becoming confident with their bodies. That's why I added the ETA.


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 26, 2007)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I have no issues with people wanting to show these guys "a better way". I'm happy to hear that and commend people who wish to do that.
> What I am taking issue with is how I see the women who don't wish to do that being told they should not express their feelings about these people- THAT IS WRONG, IMO.
> No one is telling any of these new guys to shut up so why are the women being told to do so? Why are they getting jumped on by a collective group in order to protect these people that have openly expressed shame at being seen with a larger woman?
> Part of the big problem with those guys is that they listen to others opinions about fat people being "bad", "ugly" "stupid" etc and feel like it reflects on them somehow. So some of the women here don't feel like "proving" themselves otherwise- and there is not a damn thing wrong with that. Personally, if someone wants to "change" someone somehow then more power to them, however there are others who KNOW from personal experience that you CANNOT change people. When and if he ever actually is ready to change- then that will come from inside him- not from women on a website hoping to "prove" something to him. I'm glad there are "nice" FAs here to perhaps speak with him and help him on his journey- but others are also allowed their opinions, too and should be allowed to express them openly.
> ...


Who's telling anyone to shut up? I think there's been discussion, but no one has said that one side needs to shut up.

I said we can't burn every single one of them at the stake. I mean hell, if we burned everyone that ever made a mistake this damn website wouldn't exist.

As far as FAs, I'm not talking about men that are in their mid-late 20's and up. I'm talking about BOYS. Boys that are going thru all that bullshit we all went thru during high school. 

Thanks for the rep, but it wasn't needed. Some people are going to immediately pass judgement on FAs no matter what. We just have to remember that even the most well-respected FA members of this community have admitted to having a time when they struggled with admitting their preference.


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 26, 2007)

Blackjack said:


> Okay, so it was directed far more towards Toni than anyone else.
> 
> Although I agree for the most part about closeted FA's- especially the ones who hurt others- I simply *cannot* agree when teenagers are included in this generalization.
> 
> And yes, my post was an over-the-top exaggeration.



I agree. There is a huge difference between boys and men. When we are talking about grown men being closeted FAs, then HELL YES they need to get over. The young ones are the ones that deserve a little more understanding. Crap.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Apr 26, 2007)

MisticalMisty said:


> Who's telling anyone to shut up? I think there's been discussion, but no one has said that one side needs to shut up.
> 
> I said we can't burn every single one of them at the stake. I mean hell, if we burned everyone that ever made a mistake this damn website wouldn't exist.
> 
> ...




Personally, I don't even have issues with the teens- I consider them children myself and yes they are certainly subject to change. It's when the other side seems to keep saying we are somehow "wrong" not to want to embrace a different ideology about these people that I find myself quite annoyed. The people that need to be told to change their ideology are the ones that are embarrassed by another person's weight.


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 26, 2007)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> The people that need to be told to change their ideology are the ones that are embarrassed by another person's weight.



You do realize that's what I've personally been saying..LOL

What better place to be than Dimensions for that kind of change to occur?


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## AnnMarie (Apr 26, 2007)

MisticalMisty said:


> I'm just saying, instead of immediately being angered about what's going on, let's try to educate them and get them on the path of self acceptance.



I agree completely. 

The best way to get the change made, and make them WANT to change, is to show them the positive sides of being open, honest, happy and pursuing what you want. The attacks and nastiness are what they're already afraid of happening if they tell the truth, why give it to them on both sides?? Show them that being out and proud is a happy place - not a nightmare that they must mindlessly march into and accept. 

And for the record, since there seems to be so much confusion (why, I'm not sure), I'm talking about young guys, not men. I'm talking about guys who are still having trouble talking to chicks at all for the most part, not grown men who are living a closeted life because they're chicken shit and it's just easier. Let's ease the younger set into the process and give them the tools to make it part of them, and a POSITIVE part of them. 

Our collective bitterness at being treated second-class shouldn't be transferred to them when they're just starting on their path.


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## rainyday (Apr 26, 2007)

Ditto (again). Didn't realize it needed clarification, but it's the younger crowd that I was talking about as well.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Apr 26, 2007)

MisticalMisty said:


> You do realize that's what I've personally been saying..LOL
> 
> What better place to be than Dimensions for that kind of change to occur?



I first want to see that I did quote your post so it might have looked like I was strictly disagreeing with you but that was my mistake and not my intention at all- it's the over-all atmosphere lately that bothered me and that was what I was TRYING to say 
If people have a problem with a new person being "personally attacked" or the WAY someone says something and interprets it as "rude" or "unnecessarily nasty" then I can see that point. I read another thread previously and some parts of this one and I felt like the "needs of a closet fa" were being put ABOVE the needs of a BBW to express her opinions in an open forum for fat acceptance- when she was not the person who had even initially done anything wrong or hurtful. If there are BBW's that don't care to embrace these guys, then THAT should be respected, too. I see that as part of the "self-respect" you mentioned earlier.
Personally, I don't care if those guys ever "change". I have spent enough time in my life trying to change people and realize that's not a realistic approach to anything. I will re-iterate one of my initial points that "change" comes from within the individual- and they have to be the ones to initiate it. 
And please let me clarify- I'm speaking of grown-ups- not children-I thought that was understood on a site that allows only adults over 18.


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 26, 2007)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> And please let me clarify- I'm speaking of grown-ups- not children-I thought that was understood on a site that allows only adults over 18.



I don't have anything to say about the first part of your post. I do want to talk about this part though. 18 isn't an adult..LOL I mean, legally, they are, but hell they still have so many issues you could by volumes and volumes of them. I think until about age 23 or so, these kids need to be cut some slack. After that, they should have enough life experience to realize that they need to grow up and get over it.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Apr 26, 2007)

MisticalMisty said:


> I don't have anything to say about the first part of your post. I do want to talk about this part though. 18 isn't an adult..LOL I mean, legally, they are, but hell they still have so many issues you could by volumes and volumes of them. I think until about age 23 or so, these kids need to be cut some slack. After that, they should have enough life experience to realize that they need to grow up and get over it.



Once again, we are not in disagreement on this part 
There IS a maturity factor at work when it comes to age- but then again, some people never grow up- I know you've met those, too


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## toni (Apr 27, 2007)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> And please let me clarify- I'm speaking of grown-ups- not children-I thought that was understood on a site that allows only adults over 18.



Thank you!!!!!    As was I. I do not understand how anyone came to the conclusion I was speaking of teenagers. I clearly stated I was referring to closeted FAs and "men" who have shown this pattern of behavior.


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## AnnMarie (Apr 27, 2007)

I think because some people are talking about someone who would post HERE, and others are discussing the idea that was bandied about that the original post card of this thread was written by a teenager - so they hoped he grows up and out of it. 

Really, people are mostly saying the same things, some were referring to the original topic... others were off on the subject at large.


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## toni (Apr 27, 2007)

I kind of figured it was because some people were speculating that a 12 year old wrote the postcard. However, I clearly stated I was speaking about men. OH well.


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## GWARrior (Apr 27, 2007)

toni said:


> I kind of figured it was because some people were speculating that a 12 year old wrote the postcard. However, I clearly stated I was speaking about men. OH well.



but the rest of the thread isnt about MEN. its about the kid that wrote the postcard.

:doh:


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## toni (Apr 27, 2007)

OH you have confirmation that it was a kid? I was not aware that you located the sender.


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## Blackjack (Apr 27, 2007)

toni said:


> OH you have confirmation that it was a kid? I was not aware that you located the sender.



Not confirmation, but based on the handwriting and such, it's highly likely.

Since it's Post SECRET, all we can do is speculate, and that seems the most probable answer.


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