# Discussion: Feeders/Feedees and emotions/mentality



## AnnMarie

Okay, a thread recently brought up this issue - whether real, perceived, the degrees of which, etc... and it seems something that others would like to participate in further. 

So, here are the ground rules - stick to them or your post will be removed: 


This isn't about other posters of past/present - just about the topic as a whole and the views of observers/participants. 

Feel free to add your observations, assumptions, or personal experiences. 

Absolutely NO personal attacks, this is for discussion/debate. 

No pictures of anyone other than yourself.

I think this can be an interesting and enlightening conversation about how people view this, and how those who participate on either side view it. Let's use this as a learning and growing experience, and NOT as a battleground.


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## TheSadeianLinguist

So this isn't where I reveal you've skipped shaving your legs for a week? 

I think it's an interesting topic. I think there's a difference between getting off on perceived immobility and feeding someone, and getting off on the idea of being bedbound/having your partner bedbound, or, at least, following through with it.

Ultimately, if someone follows through with a plan of immobility, they lose so much: An ability to hold a fulltime job, to socialize in public, etc. Even if they don't want that, they lose the most basic choices and components of adulthood: When to use the bathroom, when to shower, etc. They are literally as dependent as infants with the minds of adults. To permanently desire that is a red flag to me there's something wrong with someone who wants that.

I think it's unusual, but there's nothing spectacular to me, if a guy and his girlfriend say, "Yeah, she's 300 lbs. and I wanna see her pack on another 200! If they do it in a safe/sane way, cool. If they KNOW there are risks and don't expect it to be all sunshine and miracles, fine. There are risks to alternative lifestyles, but that doesn't mean they're necessarily horrible decisions if they improve quality of life. As long as a feedee is capable of self-care, I'm fine with it. 

I think Dims has certainly changed my perspective on feederism and where I stand on it. I think had you asked me three years ago, if a woman was actively trying to gain 200 lbs. with the help of her boyfriend and she had high blood pressure as she gained more, I would have said she should have her head checked. At this point, I'm pretty fine with people doing whatever with their bodies as long as they're capable of making their own decisions. A 1000 lb. person who cannot move no longer really has control over any decision, and that can't be allowed to go on.


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## AnnMarie

LillyBBBW said:


> I'm not sure what you're looking for here? You want people to discuss how they feel about the subject, people who are into it, how it affects them personally? I'm a little dense.




Any of those things, but there are people who felt they didn't get to fully express their feelings in the closed thread, so this is a place they can start. 

If you just want to wait and see what/if they say anything, that's cool too.


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## catpass

LillyBBBW said:


> I'm not sure what you're looking for here? You want people to discuss how they feel about the subject, people who are into it, how it affects them personally? I'm a little dense.



It's a good point because we have to treat people with respect to make sure they will feel confident about their experiences.


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## AnnMarie

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> To permanently desire that is a red flag to me there's something wrong with someone who wants that.



I think those are good thoughts, Casey. Also, the line I quoted above... there is definitely a difference, too, between desiring that in your head, and executing that lifestyle. I think there are many who enjoy the "idea" of it, maybe in a way that a hard core submissive likes the "idea" of living bound in a cage... but it doesn't mean it's practical or healthy to actually live that way and in their head it will stay.


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## imfree

I am an FA. I love being fat and gaining, myself. I would love to 
see a woman gain for me. I would not advise anyone to go higher than my 
own level of obesity. I'm 51 years old, weigh 415 at 5'8" tall, and I'm at my 
body's limit. I'm diabetic and on oxygen. I manage my conditions properly 
and enjoy great health for a person in my condition. I have limitations, but 
I'm OK with them. I no longer desire to gain a lot of weight.
By using the infamous BMI formulas, I have determined that a
woman 5'3" tall at 330lbs or a woman 5'6" tall at about 390lbs would be as
obese as me. I don't desire a woman to gain beyond those limits for me 
and I'm attracted to women who aren't quite that heavy, as well. I'd be 
comfortable with a heavier woman, only if she was comfortable being that
heavy.
I am still mobile, but very much feel the effect of my weight when
I'm on my feet. I now know what supersize fells like from the inside and 
can appreciate the really big girls go through. I use bathing and hygeine 
aids.
I'm happy where I am and I'd never want a woman to get any
nearer to immobility than I am. Enough is enough.


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## bigplaidpants

I'm still unpacking boxes from our move.....so, I cannot give a thorough response. I skimmed parts of the closed thread. I want to simply throw out these ideas. It's all concepts at this point and will be too abstract to be interesting for some. But, they are kind of my framework on thinking about this subject.

I've found as a FA there is an ongoing tension between fantasy and reality. I also believe that the harmony between these two sides isn't fixed. It moves around for each person, each relationship, and each situation. In the realm of feeding/gaining, I would more specifically define this tension as being between wanting more and having enough.

I don't think this tension between fantasy and reality is unique to FA'ism. Nor do I think the constant struggle between wanting more and having enough is unique to feederism. I think the struggle between wants and reality comes with anyone living in touch with your erotic world. Eroticism seems to live on fantasies, desires that come in proportions that are larger-than-life (excuse the pun), and excesses on all sides. Just fish the internet: partners who have endless reseviors of romance or self-confidence; desires for gigantic breasts; fantasy partners that "want you so bad" or can have virtually endless orgasism. In short, to be in touch with your erotic desires is to live with "wanting more" in some form or another. But, when it comes to the reality of feeding, gaining, health, and emotional well-being - erotic desires, like all excessive wants, must in the end come down to earth and deal with the concrete aspects of life. For anyone whose read my posts before, you'll recognize me saying again...I believe real life shrivels without erotic desires. Likewise, eroticism is pretty empty without some aspects of reality. But, in the end, the preponderance of our life, energies, and concern must side with reality. I can live with always "wanting more" (think literally about feeding here), but always actually getting it can be dangerous. Mental and emotional well-being, not to mention physical, comes with realizing this kind of stewardship. This is where I really respect imfree's statement. "Enough is enough." He senses his body's limits. In my experience, knowledge of those limits is usually hard won.

I could say about how this personally affects me as a FA who would love to see others fat or fatten up myself, but I don't have time here. Not to mention, I want to be sensitive to how a personal treatise would bore all onlookers. 

....gotta get back to boxes......looking forward to reading more.


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## ClashCityRocker

good topic...

i feel that, with the mentalities of most of my peers, or even people in general these days, feeding will, at least for a while, remain just a fantasy. that's fine, considering that it's potentially very dangerous and it's really not what everyone wants. it just seems as if people are open-minded to an extent, but when it comes to something like the idea of being fat, or even simply talking about it, they turn mighty narrow-minded. it's funny...you'd think that a generation of so-called "free thinkers" wouldn't so readily accept all the garbage they were fed from TV or where ever the hell people get their (mis)information.

i've brought up the concept of WG to a few friends of mine, with ONE exception, i was reminded numerous times about how "weird" it was and things like that. everyone who knows me knows that im an FA, although if i said the term to them they'd be lost. i'm FEROCIOUS when it comes to defending a BBW that my more ignorant "friends" see in public...well, maybe i'm just ferocious. seeing how people react to someone who IS fat, i'd rather not complicate matters by bringing up the idea of weight-gain...until i met someone adult enough to appreciate it...or at very least, LISTEN.


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## Tina

AnnMarie said:


> I think those are good thoughts, Casey. Also, the line I quoted above... there is definitely a difference, too, between desiring that in your head, and executing that lifestyle. I think there are many who enjoy the "idea" of it, maybe in a way that a hard core submissive likes the "idea" of living bound in a cage... but it doesn't mean it's practical or healthy to actually live that way and in their head it will stay.



Here hear, AM. That is exactly the point I was making in the other thread that was so consistenly (and frustratingly) misunderstood, twisted and misrepresented (sometimes purposely, I wondered). Fantasy is just that. Feeding that is fun and not destructive is just that -- fun. Feeding that is harmful in that it is so extreme -- and not just the interest in going that far, but actual activity with the goal of immobility in mind -- that it threatens health and ends mobility. I think that kind of behavior is the sign of someone who has some problems. Disliking that aspect of does not mean I condemn all feeders, feedees, or people who just like foodplay. Sheesh.


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## imfree

bigplaidpants said:


> I'm still unpacking boxes from our move.....so, I cannot give a thorough response. I skimmed parts of the closed thread. I want to simply throw out these ideas. It's all concepts at this point and will be too abstract to be interesting for some. But, they are kind of my framework on thinking about this subject.
> 
> I've found as a FA there is an ongoing tension between fantasy and reality. I also believe that the harmony between these two sides isn't fixed. It moves around for each person, each relationship, and each situation. In the realm of feeding/gaining, I would more specifically define this tension as being between wanting more and having enough.
> 
> I don't think this tension between fantasy and reality is unique to FA'ism. Nor do I think the constant struggle between wanting more and having enough is unique to feederism. I think the struggle between wants and reality comes with anyone living in touch with your erotic world. Eroticism seems to live on fantasies, desires that come in proportions that are larger-than-life (excuse the pun), and excesses on all sides. Just fish the internet: partners who have endless reseviors of romance or self-confidence; desires for gigantic breasts; fantasy partners that "want you so bad" or can have virtually endless orgasism. In short, to be in touch with your erotic desires is to live with "wanting more" in some form or another. But, when it comes to the reality of feeding, gaining, health, and emotional well-being - erotic desires, like all excessive wants, must in the end come down to earth and deal with the concrete aspects of life. For anyone whose read my posts before, you'll recognize me saying again...I believe real life shrivels without erotic desires. Likewise, eroticism is pretty empty without some aspects of reality. But, in the end, the preponderance of our life, energies, and concern must side with reality. I can live with always "wanting more" (think literally about feeding here), but always actually getting it can be dangerous. Mental and emotional well-being, not to mention physical, comes with realizing this kind of stewardship. This is where I really respect imfree's statement. "Enough is enough." He senses his body's limits. In my experience, knowledge of those limits is usually hard won.
> 
> I could say about how this personally affects me as a FA who would love to see others fat or fatten up myself, but I don't have time here. Not to mention, I want to be sensitive to how a personal treatise would bore all onlookers.
> 
> ....gotta get back to boxes......looking forward to reading more.



Thanks, BBP, that did my heart at least a 1000 Reps worth
of good! I really needed it, too.


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## LillyBBBW

I think that a person should be able to do whatever it is they want to do as long as it harms no one else. I recall when I decided to go into music everyone warned me against it saying, "Yeah but what if you don't make it, what if you fail, what will you do when you're 40 and it hasn't worked out?" Lots of people thought I was crazy for throwing away a money making career and choosing the path I chose but I did so knowing the risks and the personal rewards. It was my choice to make and I was prepared to face the consequences for my actions whatever those consequences may be. I would not have been happy any other way and it's my happiness I'm responsible for, no one elses.

The same can be said for anything anyone feels in their heart is the right thing to do weather it's gaining weight or losing weight though diets or surgery. People should be able to make whatever decision is right for them without having their sanity or intelligence called into question as long as they are fully aware of the risks and are fully prepared to face the possible consequences for their actions.


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## LJ Rock

Good idea, AM... I had wanted to reply to this topic earlier but didn't get around to it. Thanks for the second chance.  

I don't think that there can necessarily be any concrete lines drawn between a person exhibiting "feederish" tendencies and their mental stability (other than perhaps a handful of annecdotal incidents.) I do believe however, that there is something undeniably and inherantly destructive about federism, for any and all parties involved, regardless of whether the idea of intentionally overeating and gaining weight makes you sick to your stomach or all hot and bothered. 

Some might argue that showing any kind of "self-destructive behavior" is a sign of deeper-rooted emotional or psychological issues. However, each of us is different, and we will all exhibit different behaviors as a means of expressing or coping with our varying emotional issues; just because one person has mental or emotional issues and is also a feeder or feedee, it does not mean that all feeders and feedees will necessarily have these same issues. By the same token, not all people with mental or emotional issues are going to exhibit the same kinds of behaviors. In some cases we may see said issues manifest themselves in eating disorders for example, or some kind self-abuse or mutilation. Some may just become withdrawn and depressed. Really it is quite fascinating, if you look at it, the many different ways that the human mind deals with trauma and dysfunction.

Now this destructive side of feederism may occur to varying degrees of severity, but is destructive none the less. After all, how bad is it really to allow oneself to overindulge a bit on occasion for pleasure when compared to compulsively overeating and gaining weight to the point where it is almost beyond one's control? None the less, in both cases one is making a conscious decision to "throw caution to the wind" as it were, and gratify their immediate and base desire for indulgance and overindulgance, regardless of the potential risks. In fact, it might even be said that it is indeed this very destructiveness that is the main attraction for feeders and feedees, much in the same way that people are attracted to drug and alcohol abuse, sexual promiscuity, or any other so-called "reckless" behavior. 

There is a certain excitement in the notion of letting go, loosing control of a situation, getting lost in the moment or experience. It is indeed a thrill, almost a life affirming experience to allow yourself to get swept away in your passion for something that all else becomes inconsequential. This I think is one of things that personally has interested me in feederism all these years. Total self-indulgance, self-gratification, with no regard for anyone or anything else; it's just you and the food, nothing else. The consequences of your actions? We'll worry about those tomorrow! Right now, it's all about the moment. It's all about attempting to satisfy the insatiable, to quench the unquenchable, completely giving into temptaion and getting lost in your desires.

But of course, there are always consequences to such actions. Aren't there? Aside from weight gain and the matters of physical health that go along with it, there are a host psychological and emotional issues that go along with granting yourself the power to satisfy your every whim at a moments notice. (How easy is it for us to become addicted to a behavior that gives us so much pleasure and excitement all at once?) Not to mention the fact that the concept of "gluttony" truly can be considered "sinful," in the face of those oh so many people around the world who are starving and must go without what so many of us here take for granted! 

And then there is yet another issue: how does this apply when you have a person for whom it their desire to see someone else do all the "indulging?" It's almost as if the "feeder" is living vicariously through his "feedee," allowing her to experience all of this decadence and "sinfulness" and saving himself the from the "consequences" that follow. Of course, there are control issues that can be involved as well. There are surely incidents where the "feeder" in question is really just an abusive person whos mission it is to dis-empower someone and take control over them. Part of it may be a matter of safety in numbers: as if the feeder says, "if this other person (the feedee) is doing what I want to do, in fact is doing it even MORE than I am or ever have, then really how bad can _I_ be?" More still, I think the desire for "excess" can be sexually stimulating for many people (especially for those with addictive personality types) and this may the attraction for many others still. 

I've been coming to this place for a long time, and it was my interest in wg and feederism (particularly as they apply to the bbw and ssbbw) that brought me here. Make no mistake about that! This post is in no way "anti-feeder" nor is it "pro-feeder." I'm not looking to get involved with that debate here and now. This is simply a collection of thoughts and observations on the subject. We've spoken often here about the delicate balance between fantasy and reality, but there always seems to be a "safety line" of sorts that no one dares cross; we want to keep it real without spoiling the fun. I don't want to spoil the fun either, but maybe (at least for me in my life) it's time to start keeping it a little more real where all of this is concerned.


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## Tina

LillyBBBW said:


> I think that a person should be able to do whatever it is they want to do as long as it harms no one else.


I agree. I have watched all kinds of people do all kinds of crazy things, and it's not up to me to stop them. Doesn't mean I won't have an opinion -- doesn't mean I will even give my opinion, and I certainly don't call their sanity or intelligence into question.

Sheesh. I never thought that one question, _based on things that have been posted here and elsewhere, and not just pulled out of thin air_, would cause such a stir, so many flared tempers and grasped onto with such terrier tenacity.



LJ Rock said:


> And then there is yet another issue: how does this apply when you have a person for whom it their desire to see someone else do all the "indulging?" It's almost as if the "feeder" is living vicariously through his "feedee," allowing her to experience all of this decadence and "sinfulness" and saving himself the from the "consequences" that follow. Of course, there are control issues that can be involved as well. There are surely incidents where the "feeder" in question is really just an abusive person whos mission it is to dis-empower someone and take control over them.


I think that's an interesting point. I think for some it really is a control issue, and for others it's not. And, like you say, maybe for some others it is a way of living vicariously through the feeded without having to suffer any of the negative consequences. That's something I can never know, as I really cannot relate to wanting to feed someone in a way beyond liking to cook for my boyfriend, enjoying that he enjoys it, and maybe feeding each other spoonfulls. I couldn't imagine wanting to strap him to a table and shove food or a tube in his mouth. Just not something that is part of my own reality, so I cannot relate.


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## AnnMarie

LillyBBBW said:


> I think that a person should be able to do whatever it is they want to do as long as it harms no one else. I recall when I decided to go into music everyone warned me against it saying, "Yeah but what if you don't make it, what if you fail, what will you do when you're 40 and it hasn't worked out?" Lots of people thought I was crazy for throwing away a money making career and choosing the path I chose but I did so knowing the risks and the personal rewards. It was my choice to make and I was prepared to face the consequences for my actions whatever those consequences may be. I would not have been happy any other way and it's my happiness I'm responsible for, no one elses.
> 
> The same can be said for anything anyone feels in their heart is the right thing to do weather it's gaining weight or losing weight though diets or surgery. People should be able to make whatever decision is right for them without having their sanity or intelligence called into question as long as they are fully aware of the risks and are fully prepared to face the possible consequences for their actions.



I agree. Unless you're someone's therapist, you really don't know what is in someone's mind. Drastic life alteration happens in many walks of life, and mental stability is generally called into question (meaning professional exams before sex changes, etc), but we're not the ones who make those calls for someone who desires extreme gain/immobility, etc. 

I can understand how one might speculate that anyone willing to give up their mobility and freedom may not be of sound mind, but it's just that... speculation. They clearly are dealing with life in a different way than those who don't share the interest, and if it "works" for them, if it's _their choice and desire_, it's not my place to judge their emotional/mental fitness. I know it's not what I'd want for my life, but that doesn't mean I'm right and they're wrong (not saying anyone here has said that).


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## AnnMarie

LJ Rock said:


> Good idea, AM... I had wanted to reply to this topic earlier but didn't get around to it. Thanks for the second chance.
> 
> ***snipped for length**
> 
> I don't want to spoil the fun either, but maybe (at least for me in my life) it's time to start keeping it a little more real where all of this is concerned.



Really intersting post, LJ... good thoughts.


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## Tina

One does not need to be an expert on body size to see that someone who is, say, 500 lbs, is really fat. Not a judgement, just an obvservation.

Likewise, one does not need to be a therapist to see the writings and photographic evidence of a person who is admittedly very self-destructive, with various mental problems, to observe that they are mentally unstable. Why is stating one much worse than the other? Because the mentally ill are thought of to be "less than"? Well so are fat people. And fact is, some people I love are bi-polar and I have had some problems with depression myself, so I do not feel that people with such problems are "less than."

I find it very odd that the only -- ONLY -- photos I have seen of women with feeding tubes have admittedly had mental and emotional problems. Is that me judging them? No, it is me making an observation, because it made me wonder why. If the two were attached somehow. If it was a death wish or just something they like. But saying this in public is somehow a bad thing, because people see it as a judgement. Whatever.

If someone has to be a professional to make observations, then there would be a whole lot less posts on this board, I can tell you, but somehow I stepped into some unmarked, taboo area. That makes me a baaaaad person, who, ironically (or, maybe even hypocritically), it is okay to judge.


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## Green Eyed Fairy

Personally, I don't care if people are feeders/feedees. I don't put people down for it or expect them to change. By being this way, I hope I'm giving to others what I would want from them- no interference in my lifestyle. 
Do I have my opinions about what the draw of feederism is? Yes, I think it's control issues but then again, that's just the outside looking in opinion of someone who isn't into it. It's really just not my thing and I'm not looking to change that- or others. 
Btw, it's my own control issues that make the idea of feederism look so unattractive to me- probably why I see it as something to do with control issues- whether I'm right or wrong doesn't make two cents to me- I'm not that concerned with it *shrugs*


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## bigsexy920

Good Thread and LJRocks that is a great post.


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## AnnMarie

Tina said:


> One does not need to be an expert on body size to see that someone who is, say, 500 lbs, is really fat. Not a judgement, just an obvservation.
> 
> Likewise, one does not need to be a therapist to see the writings and photographic evidence of a person who is admittedly very self-destructive, with various mental problems, to observe that they are mentally unstable. Why is stating one much worse than the other? Because the mentally ill are thought of to be "less than"? Well so are fat people. And fact is, some people I love are bi-polar and I have had some problems with depression myself, so I do not feel that people with such problems are "less than."
> 
> I find it very odd that the only -- ONLY -- photos I have seen of women with feeding tubes have admittedly had mental and emotional problems. Is that me judging them? No, it is me making an observation, because it made me wonder why. If the two were attached somehow. If it was a death wish or just something they like. But saying this in public is somehow a bad thing, because people see it as a judgement. Whatever.
> 
> If someone has to be a professional to make observations, then there would be a whole lot less posts on this board, I can tell you, but somehow I stepped into some unmarked, taboo area. That makes me a baaaaad person, who, ironically (or, maybe even hypocritically), it is okay to judge.



I'm not sure if you're talking about this thread, or the last one? 

Speaking for my own comments in reply to Lilly, they weren't about you - and I didn't read hers as being about you either (again, I'm confused if that's even what you were feeling). They're just about the entire issue as a whole and how it's judged/viewed by people - both inside and outside this "scene". 

My hope for this thread is discussion from both sides, which has been happening so far - with no blame/finger pointing in either direction. I think very few people here will be in total agreement about much of anything, but I think it's helpful to hear all the different views/takes on something that is so controversial... even here where it has some sort of "home".


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## AnnMarie

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Personally, I don't care if people are feeders/feedees. I don't put people down for it or expect them to change. By being this way, I hope I'm giving to others what I would want from them- no interference in my lifestyle.
> Do I have my opinions about what the draw of feederism is? Yes, I think it's control issues but then again, that's just the outside looking in opinion of someone who isn't into it. It's really just not my thing and I'm not looking to change that- or others.
> Btw, it's my own control issues that make the idea of feederism look so unattractive to me- probably why I see it as something to do with control issues- whether I'm right or wrong doesn't make two cents to me- I'm not that concerned with it *shrugs*



I think that's how a lot of people view it, GEF, and it's certainly some aspect of it for some participants. 

I personally am not into intentional gain - I'm happy with me as is, but I understand and can enjoy the more playful aspect of feeding/food, etc. To me, the interesting aspect is the sensual/nurturing one, the intimacy that can be involved, and that's a side of it that rarely gets much face time because there is so much talk about control (the controversy always wins  ). 

Anyway, just wanted to bring that up so you could at least think about it with another side if you want.


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## TheSadeianLinguist

You answered your own question, smart ass. 

I think people who really crave humiliation are perceived as having mental issues. I also think people who really crave humiliation HAVE mental issues. Any way you cut it, being tube fed is very, very degrading. There's something faulty about having a negative emotion like having your stomach hurt or being embarrassed feel "good." There's something unnatural about wanting to have somewhat painful sex while tied up. Doesn't mean enjoying any of those things are morally wrong. Somewhere along the line, "unnatural" got confused with "morally wrong." Human beings are walking contradictions. 

The only time I see it necessary to intervene with anyone's actions is when the affected individual is totally cut off from the outside world and they are totally controlled by others. Someone needs to step in and give the person a safe environment where they can say yes, it's what they want, or no, it isn't.

Note: I think immobilization, force-feeding, and feederism are different things. Not saying they're all the same. 



Tina said:


> One does not need to be an expert on body size to see that someone who is, say, 500 lbs, is really fat. Not a judgement, just an obvservation.
> 
> Likewise, one does not need to be a therapist to see the writings and photographic evidence of a person who is admittedly very self-destructive, with various mental problems, to observe that they are mentally unstable. Why is stating one much worse than the other? Because the mentally ill are thought of to be "less than"? Well so are fat people. And fact is, some people I love are bi-polar and I have had some problems with depression myself, so I do not feel that people with such problems are "less than."
> 
> I find it very odd that the only -- ONLY -- photos I have seen of women with feeding tubes have admittedly had mental and emotional problems. Is that me judging them? No, it is me making an observation, because it made me wonder why. If the two were attached somehow. If it was a death wish or just something they like. But saying this in public is somehow a bad thing, because people see it as a judgement. Whatever.
> 
> If someone has to be a professional to make observations, then there would be a whole lot less posts on this board, I can tell you, but somehow I stepped into some unmarked, taboo area. That makes me a baaaaad person, who, ironically (or, maybe even hypocritically), it is okay to judge.


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## MisticalMisty

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> I think people who really crave humiliation are perceived as having mental issues. *I also think people who really crave humiliation HAVE mental issues.* Any way you cut it, being tube fed is very, very degrading. There's something unnatural about wanting to have somewhat painful sex while tied up. Doesn't mean enjoying any of those things are morally wrong.



I don't agree with you at all. From your reasoning about 100% of the peoplewho participate in the bdsm lifestyle would have mental issues and that's not a true statement.

I'm a well educated, professional, confident woman who LOVES hearing certain things in the bedroom and yes I crave it as well. That doesn't mean I'm mentally unstable. It doesn't mean that it's unnatural for me to feel that way. It just means that I like something that's not considered "the norm." 

It could be said that homosexuality is unnatural, or that being an FA is unnatural, or like excessively thin women is unnatural. I don't believe it has anything to do with one's mental health.



I agree that mental health is a serious issue and not one to take lightly. But hell, if everything "unnatural" was a basis, we'd all be in the looney bin.


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## alienlanes

LJ Rock said:


> Some might argue that showing any kind of "self-destructive behavior" is a sign of deeper-rooted emotional or psychological issues. However, each of us is different, and we will all exhibit different behaviors as a means of expressing or coping with our varying emotional issues; just because one person has mental or emotional issues and is also a feeder or feedee, it does not mean that all feeders and feedees will necessarily have these same issues. By the same token, not all people with mental or emotional issues are going to exhibit the same kinds of behaviors. In some cases we may see said issues manifest themselves in eating disorders for example, or some kind self-abuse or mutilation. Some may just become withdrawn and depressed. Really it is quite fascinating, if you look at it, the many different ways that the human mind deals with trauma and dysfunction.



I agree, but I'd go even further: I don't think that feederism (or any other kink) is necessarily a response to trauma, just to the normal range of variation in human development. The process by which childhood experiences translate into adult sexual preferences is too complicated to generalize.

I suspect that everyone's experience of their fetish, whether that happens to be feederism, furry or feet, is subtly different. If two feeders were to switch brains for a day, I expect that beyond their basic commonality they'd be surprised at how different find each other's subjective life. 

Everyone has a unique constellation of turn-ons. On this board we share a "sun," erotic weight gain -- but we each have a different collection of kinky planets revolving around it, and that's where things get interesting.

Speaking solely for myself, whenever I hear someone say "feederism is all about controlling the feedee" I want to hop up and down yelling "No! That's not it _at all!_", because for me it's not; my own feederism is very, very submissive, and control fantasies leave me totally cold. But there _are_ guys, I'm sure, who get off on them. 

We call those guys "gross, sick and horrible deviants"!

Kidding, of course! But that's my point -- even within the fetish, there are profound variations. So I don't think you can generalize. Our specific kink triggers are just the antechambers of very intricate psychological labyrinths. The tough part, of course, is finding a compatible partner to safely and consensually explore them with. 

Ehh, I'm starting to ramble. Regarding Tina's comment, though, that the only tube feeding pics she's seen are of otherwise unstable women, I think that has less to do with feederism and more to do with the culture of Internet exhibitionism. 

I don't share the tube-feeding fantasy, but if I did, I expect I'd want it to be something private and intimate -- unlike simple eating pics, it's not something I'd share with the world at large. I don't know how many people tube feed in private, but if, as Tina says, the only ones who expose it publicly Have Issues, that makes me think that the desire to show it off might involve deeper self-esteem problems.


----------



## MisticalMisty

SlackerFA said:


> *snipped*
> 
> I don't share the tube-feeding fantasy, but if I did, I expect I'd want it to be something private and intimate -- unlike simple eating pics, it's not something I'd share with the world at large. I don't know how many people tube feed in private, but if, as Tina says, the only ones who expose it publicly Have Issues, that makes me think that the desire to show it off might involve deeper self-esteem problems.



But that's a generalization that is totally not fair to anyone to make.

The photos in question, or hell any other photo on the internet could just be staged. Hell, I could go get a funnel and a tube and throw some chocolate milk in it and take a picture. Am I seriously being tube fed? No, I'm projecting a persona to people using the internet.


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## LillyBBBW

I think that there will be a hypersentitivity around this subject for a long time. If I stated that every person I've ever known who likes to tan has exhibited some form of mental deficiency I'm sure I would get a good talking to, even if what I'm saying is true according to my experiences. 


EDIT: By the way, I hope my posts aren't coming off as hostile or angry. I'm not. I'm just saying stuff. 



Tina said:


> One does not need to be an expert on body size to see that someone who is, say, 500 lbs, is really fat. Not a judgement, just an obvservation.
> 
> Likewise, one does not need to be a therapist to see the writings and photographic evidence of a person who is admittedly very self-destructive, with various mental problems, to observe that they are mentally unstable. Why is stating one much worse than the other? Because the mentally ill are thought of to be "less than"? Well so are fat people. And fact is, some people I love are bi-polar and I have had some problems with depression myself, so I do not feel that people with such problems are "less than."
> 
> I find it very odd that the only -- ONLY -- photos I have seen of women with feeding tubes have admittedly had mental and emotional problems. Is that me judging them? No, it is me making an observation, because it made me wonder why. If the two were attached somehow. If it was a death wish or just something they like. But saying this in public is somehow a bad thing, because people see it as a judgement. Whatever.
> 
> If someone has to be a professional to make observations, then there would be a whole lot less posts on this board, I can tell you, but somehow I stepped into some unmarked, taboo area. That makes me a baaaaad person, who, ironically (or, maybe even hypocritically), it is okay to judge.


----------



## LillyBBBW

SlackerFA said:


> I don't share the tube-feeding fantasy, but if I did, I expect I'd want it to be something private and intimate -- unlike simple eating pics, it's not something I'd share with the world at large. I don't know how many people tube feed in private, but if, as Tina says, the only ones who expose it publicly Have Issues, that makes me think that the desire to show it off might involve deeper self-esteem problems.



There are people who are introverted and there are people who are not. Some people once they come to terms with something about themselves they want to express themselves and share it with others, glad to have found kindred spirits so to speak. Some express their desires through art - drawing, sketching or painting pictures depicting their fantasies. There are whole groups of people who gather round to share these images and take comfort in knowing there are others who are like them. Taking pictures of yourself with a tube in your mouth or lying on a mountain of empty pizza boxes, in my view, is just another form of that expression. It's a way to share a part of you that you've been ashamed or embarassed about for so long with people who will understand and appreciate it. 

It's you quiet ones who are insane.  j/k


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## alienlanes

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> There's something faulty about having a negative emotion like having your stomach hurt or being embarrassed feel "good." There's something unnatural about wanting to have somewhat painful sex while tied up. Doesn't mean enjoying any of those things are morally wrong. Somewhere along the line, "unnatural" got confused with "morally wrong." Human beings are walking contradictions.



Maybe there's "something unnatural" about having strange sexual turn-ons -- but I agree with Papa Freud: that's because there's something very unnatural about modern industrial civilization. Raise a gregarious savannah primate in an American commuter suburb and it's bound to get all sorts of weird ideas about sex  . 

But I don't like thinking of it as "unnatural," because, as you said, that word has bad connotations. I try to think of it as "unexpected... and interesting"


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## TheSadeianLinguist

I do think there's some sort of external trigger that happens to make someone have sexual attachments to external, independent of natural (read: inborn) sexual desires. Hey, maybe (and often) positive experiences, like enjoying playing cowboys and indians. So, perhaps "mental issue" was a bit of a tough term, but a fetish is not inborn. Homosexual/heterosexuality is naturally-occuring and we see it with lots of animals. Only the "rational animal" can form sexual attachments to non-sexual objects, and no, puppies humping a pillow does not count. 



MisticalMisty said:


> I don't agree with you at all. From your reasoning about 100% of the peoplewho participate in the bdsm lifestyle would have mental issues and that's not a true statement.
> 
> I'm a well educated, professional, confident woman who LOVES hearing certain things in the bedroom and yes I crave it as well. That doesn't mean I'm mentally unstable. It doesn't mean that it's unnatural for me to feel that way. It just means that I like something that's not considered "the norm."
> 
> It could be said that homosexuality is unnatural, or that being an FA is unnatural, or like excessively thin women is unnatural. I don't believe it has anything to do with one's mental health.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that mental health is a serious issue and not one to take lightly. But hell, if everything "unnatural" was a basis, we'd all be in the looney bin.


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist

SlackerFA said:


> Maybe there's "something unnatural" about having strange sexual turn-ons -- but I agree with Papa Freud: that's because there's something very unnatural about modern industrial civilization. Raise a gregarious savannah primate in an American commuter suburb and it's bound to get all sorts of weird ideas about sex  .
> 
> But I don't like thinking of it as "unnatural," because, as you said, that word has bad connotations. I try to think of it as "unexpected... and interesting"



Precisely. Wearing pants in hot weather, for example: TOTALLY unnatural. Would I say it's a bad thing? Hell no.


----------



## MisticalMisty

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> I do think there's some sort of external trigger that happens to make someone have sexual attachments to external, independent of natural (read: inborn) sexual desires. Hey, maybe (and often) positive experiences, like enjoying playing cowboys and indians. So, perhaps "mental issue" was a bit of a tough term, but a fetish is not inborn. Homosexual/heterosexuality is naturally-occuring and we see it with lots of animals. Only the "rational animal" can form sexual attachments to non-sexual objects, and no, puppies humping a pillow does not count.



Submission can be "inborn" and many of the activities that go along with it can be as well. Who's to say that it isn't natural and is a mental issue?


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## MissToodles

I want to know (and maybe the statistics here would be skewered) that feederism seems to be a purely Western, industrialized nations fantasy. We have so much, could this really exist without our total overconsumption of all resources?

I have more opinions on the actual "lifestyle" but that's for another time.


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## MisticalMisty

MissToodles said:


> I want to know (and maybe the statistics here would be skewered) that feederism seems to be a purely Western, industrialized nations fantasy. We have so much, could this really exist without our total overconsumption of all resources?
> 
> I have more opinions on the actual "lifestyle" but that's for another time.



I would assume that feederism has been around for centuries. Think about it..it's only within the last 60 something years that being thin has become such a norm in our society. In the past, being robust was a sign of wealth. It would seem to me that there were probably many a man that enjoyed seeing someone eat and enjoy eating without worrying about every damn calorie and some women were probably encouraged to eat so that they could flaunt their wealth. That's just my opinion.


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## LoveBHMS

I subscribe to the fairly boring notion that "normal" is what happens between consenting adults, in private, where nobody gets hurt. (Obviously removing intentional pain such as in BDSM.)

I really don't need to understand why I like what I like, or really want to know why other people are how they are. There is a massive range of fetishism including the sound of latex, chewing ice, popping balloons, tube feeding, amputees, and heaven knows what else. If you're not into something, of course it'll seem weird. For that matter, if you ARE into something you may think it's weird.

Really...so what?


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## alienlanes

LillyBBBW said:


> It's you quiet ones who are insane.  j/k



Heh, guilty as charged  

You and Misty are right -- and I realize that I'm not taking my own advice :doh: I'm generalizing from Tina's discomfort, and my own indifference, to assume that everyone finds tube feeding degrading or at least embarrassing. I don't have sufficient grounds to assume that. 

Especially not when my subjective experience of Lilly's post does a total backflip in the course of one sentence. "Tube-feeding, meh... wait, an empty mountain of pizza boxes? HOT HOT HOT! Where can I get those? :smitten:"


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## MissToodles

I suppose I am a hypocrite-- I believe in total body autonomy (it's your body to do as your please) but don't understand why people would want to go to such extremes to gain massive amounts of weight. Fantasy is one thing but as a very fat woman I know the struggles and realities from not fitting into places to more intimate hygeine issues. I've also met men who are totally into this thing and have no regards towards women, their bodies whatsoever. They could care less about someone gaining tons of weight which could possibly have some health reprecussions. I think so many live in that fantasy world that they don't regard the person outside of their physical existence. I also realize assholes are assholes regardless of their personal kink but I see this strain of subtle abuse/misogyny run rampant through this community.


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## LillyBBBW

MisticalMisty said:


> I would assume that feederism has been around for centuries. Think about it..it's only within the last 60 something years that being thin has become such a norm in our society. In the past, being robust was a sign of wealth. It would seem to me that there were probably many a man that enjoyed seeing someone eat and enjoy eating without worrying about every damn calorie and some women were probably encouraged to eat so that they could flaunt their wealth. That's just my opinion.



There are entire African villages dedicated to it. I had a calendar hanging in my kitchen last year depicting African women of different tribal clans from several regions. A few of the women had thick wide beaded bangles around their necks and some stacked on their legs from ankle to thigh to create the illusion of rolls on the body to attract the attention of men looking to choose a wife. Similar practices can be found in many native customs. On the contrary, it is the western influenced world that is so obsessed with being trim and rationing their food even though there is plenty to go around.


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## alienlanes

LoveBHMS said:


> I subscribe to the fairly boring notion that "normal" is what happens between consenting adults, in private, where nobody gets hurt. (Obviously removing intentional pain such as in BDSM.)
> 
> I really don't need to understand why I like what I like, or really want to know why other people are how they are. There is a massive range of fetishism including the sound of latex, chewing ice, popping balloons, tube feeding, amputees, and heaven knows what else. If you're not into something, of course it'll seem weird. For that matter, if you ARE into something you may think it's weird.
> 
> Really...so what?



Hey, some people find these questions intrinsically interesting. I don't feel the need to understand how an internal combustion engine works, but some people think about nothing else


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## MissToodles

Yes, but that seems more like ritual rather than a sexual fixtation. I saw that documentary on the Discovery (I believe) channel.


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## TheSadeianLinguist

MisticalMisty said:


> Submission can be "inborn" and many of the activities that go along with it can be as well. Who's to say that it isn't natural and is a mental issue?



Excluding domination, all the other ones are based on external or situational things: Bondage is about physical restraint. Masochism, the desire to be humiliated, or sadism, the desire to humiliate, are not inborn. Those are learned. Someone may have a LEANING towards being submissive or dominant, but no one just naturally wakes up and thinks being tied up would get them off. At some point, a situation occurs that makes them say, "Hey, this is fun. Maybe unnatural is a bad word, but it's not innate.

I could go on about this, just because I think it's interesting. I think sexual activities that involve social implications and roles are fascinating, and that's why I enjoy talking to people from the BDSM community. I don't think most people from the community are perverts, but I do think that when someone says, "Oh, I was born a Dom/me or a sub," well, no. They were born with certain personality traits, sure, and ASSUMED a role. No one is born to like bondage. It's an acquired taste. Does that mean once a connection is made, it's easy, or even a good idea to sever it? No. Enjoy it. Safe, sane, consensual BDSM can be a blast, but it ain't preprogrammed into us.

*For people into EXTREME humiliation/dangerous pain or being immobilized, I consider that something that needs to be delved into.* Guy who enjoys being trampled? Not so much. He had a positive experience and made a connection. Cool. Not the same thing as heterosexuality/homosexuality.


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## AnnMarie

SlackerFA said:


> Hey, some people find these questions intrinsically interesting. I don't feel the need to understand how an internal combustion engine works, but some people think about nothing else



I agree, I think it's just very interesting to hear views and standpoints from different sides of this issue. I'm sure there are those who don't, and that's fine, but I'm a dissector, and I always like to delve into the brains around see what makes them tick. 

I'm curious by nature, so discussions like this and others are a natural extension of that curiosity. I'm glad people are discussing it respectfully and frankly... it's been interesting so far.


----------



## LillyBBBW

MissToodles said:


> Yes, but that seems more like ritual rather than a sexual fixtation. I saw that documentary on the Discovery (I believe) channel.



Well there are two ways that this is expressed. Some villages do the bangles on the body, others send their daughters to places where the people in charge force feed them to make them fat so that they can get a decent man. It's a mixed brood there. Being healthy and robust is revered and coveted, yet you have to be busy and useful. If you are lazy that is when being fat becomes unattractive and you are subject to ridicule and scorn. It is mostly moderation and not to extremes though. Weather the extremes exist in these native cultures one never knows. It's a slim chance one of them will surf the internet and come here to tell us. I do know that I get a lot of attention from African men. My parents tease me about it.


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## Tina

AnnMarie said:


> I'm not sure if you're talking about this thread, or the last one?


Both, I guess, though mostly the last one. Given that I am the one who really brought up mental instability, and that my posts have been used most often as examples to rail against, it's hard not to think that, whether it's intended or not.


> I think very few people here will be in total agreement about much of anything, but I think it's helpful to hear all the different views/takes on something that is so controversial... even here where it has some sort of "home".


I'm not sure it has a home here, AM, as easily as people pile on if the PC thing isn't said. I'm hoping that this thread might be different.

I certainly don't expect others to agree with me, but only not to mis-characterize what I have said and attack based upon that.


TheSadeianLinguist said:


> You answered your own question, smart ass.


 


> Note: I think immobilization, force-feeding, and feederism are different things. Not saying they're all the same.


I agree, and I think so much is about intent.


SlackerFA said:


> Ehh, I'm starting to ramble. Regarding Tina's comment, though, that the only tube feeding pics she's seen are of otherwise unstable women, I think that has less to do with feederism and more to do with the culture of Internet exhibitionism.


See, that's the thing, I don't know _what_ it has to do with. I suspect some certainly are people who do it because of some dysfunctional reason. Fact is, if one is doing something that is leading intentionally to self harm, that isn't exactly healthy in any sense of the word. It's possible there are some who do it for little temporary kicks, or just, as you say, because of the culture of internet exhibitionism. I have no way of knowing, really, but did notice the commonalities of tube feeding and mental illness regarding what I have seen and read. It's something that isn't really discussed. And I can see why -- one misstep and it's a pile-on. I can see how my initial post might have come off as judgemental, just the way I said it; but I really did not mean to be snarky even if it came off that way.


> I don't share the tube-feeding fantasy, but if I did, I expect I'd want it to be something private and intimate -- unlike simple eating pics, it's not something I'd share with the world at large. I don't know how many people tube feed in private, but if, as Tina says, the only ones who expose it publicly Have Issues, that makes me think that the desire to show it off might involve deeper self-esteem problems.


I never said that "the only ones who expose it publicly Have Issues," but more that that is all *I* have seen, and I would never claim to have seen it all, that's for sure. I don't know about the rest, or what you say about self-esteem issues, but I'm guessing that if someone is also doing other, serious, things to harm themselves, it could be an issue.


LillyBBBW said:


> I think that there will be a hypersentitivity around this subject for a long time. If I stated that every person I've ever known who likes to tan has exhibited some form of mental deficiency I'm sure I would get a good talking to, even if what I'm saying is true according to my experiences.


I think that might be too much of a generalization, right? I mean, the only similarities I can see is if the person is talking about wanting to die and of the various ways they harm themselves, and that tanning is part of that. And then they go to something like this extreme:  






It's all context and intent, IMO.


> EDIT: By the way, I hope my posts aren't coming off as hostile or angry. I'm not. I'm just saying stuff.


No, you're not, to my mind anyway.


----------



## stan_der_man

The thing that makes feederism so intertwined with sexuality is that eating is such a carnal pleasure like sex, it is almost as hedonistic of a pleasure to eat as it is to have sex. You can eat to the point where you make yourself sick and you can have sex to the point where you injure yourself. I think that two people eating and gaining weight together is probably the most sensual thing next to having sex. Two people feeding each other chocolate... what's wrong with that? Feederism, to the point of immobility is simply an extreme form of feederism, just like anything else taken to an extreme; there are consequences that will occur. I don't think there is anything perverse or bad about feederism per se, you can take anything to an extreme and have negative consequences put upon yourself or upon others.

fa_man_stan


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## AnnMarie

fa_man_stan said:


> The thing that makes feederism so intertwined with sexuality is that eating is such a carnal pleasure like sex, it is almost as hedonistic of a pleasure to eat as it is to have sex. You can eat to the point where you make yourself sick and you can have sex to the point where you injure yourself. I think that two people eating and gaining weight together is probably the most sensual thing next to having sex. Two people feeding each other chocolate... what's wrong with that? Feederism, to the point of immobility is simply an extreme form of feederism, just like anything else taken to an extreme; there are consequences that will occur. I don't think there is anything perverse or bad about feederism per se, you can take anything to an extreme and have negative consequences put upon yourself or upon others.
> 
> fa_man_stan



Well said, I agree with that.


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## LillyBBBW

Tina said:


> I think that might be too much of a generalization, right? I mean, the only similarities I can see is if the person is talking about wanting to die and of the various ways they harm themselves, and that tanning is part of that. And then they go to something like this extreme:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's all context and intent, IMO.
> 
> No, you're not, to my mind anyway.



My scenario was hypothetical. I'm not into tanning. I think it's dangerous and ruins the skin, just my opinion. Most people who do it are very level headed people save for a few exceptions. One is bipolar and has been in and out of the hospital and had several suicide attempts, the other is an alcoholic and a druggie. I saw the alcoholic one day and she looked wonderful. I told her so and she immediately started to put herself down saying she hadn't been tanning in a while and she felt pale as a ghost. That's when it hit me: the tanning actually highlights the wrinkles in her face and around her eyes. That's why I thought she looked so good. 

My two friends are whackos. If they were the only two people I knew who tanned, and given my dim view of tanning as a whole I might begin to question the sanity of people who tan. It's my belief that it is dangerous, it ruins the skin plus I have rosacea and my skin takes a sore beating from the sun. I have no understanding of the practice. I'm not sure if we're talking about a person who has publicly declared that they want to die and that they are intentionally trying to tan themselves to death. Their desire to die and their desire to tan may be completely unrelated.

EDIT: I meant to hit preview but I hit post by accident. Some folks may have a death wish through feeding themselves to death but for many it's completely unrelated.


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## ripley

LillyBBBW said:


> People should be able to make whatever decision is right for them without having their sanity or intelligence called into question as long as they are fully aware of the risks and are fully prepared to face the possible consequences for their actions.



That's the rub...until you are extremely fat you have NO IDEA what it's like, what the consequences are. Twenty-five pounds ago I was a different person...it takes so little, really, to take things from fun and games to a serious change in your moment-to-moment life. An intentional gainer might say "Yes, I know that high blood pressure, diabetes, and mobility issues can occur; I'm aware." But they aren't feeling those things; they remain abstract until they happen. I'm not even talking being housebound or bedridden...you just don't know where that line is for you until you cross it...and then what? How sexy is it if you find one day you can't reach your own ass to wipe it? How sexy is it to not be able to walk very far at all without pain from joints or your back? How sexy is it to have all your furniture breaking down from you being so heavy? Sure, I know there are some that get turned on by those very things...but are they the ones with hygiene issues, joint pain, back pain, and a house full of crappy looking furniture? 

Some fantasies should stay fantasies. People can have all the fantasies they want and more power to them; play-act at it till your heart's content. Extreme weight gain is not like a submissive's collar that you can remove when it's time to go off to work or out to the grocery store...pounds of weight are far harder to remove (if you can remove them at all).

I think I have a different view than a lot of feeders/feedees in that I think I'd really like the nurturing aspect of having a feeder. The thought of a man bringing me goodies to eat and keeping me satisfied holds a lot of appeal to me. Weight gain does not. Extreme weight gain scares me; it does not arouse or titillate me in the least. I don't understand it...but I don't understand a lot of fetishes. I don't think the man who gets aroused by high-heeled boots is mentally compromised, but a man or woman who gets aroused by his or her partner being unable to participate in daily life, or a woman or man who gets aroused by abdicating mobility...that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.


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## Chimpi

bigplaidpants said:


> I've found as a FA there is an ongoing tension between fantasy and reality. I also believe that the harmony between these two sides isn't fixed. It moves around for each person, each relationship, and each situation. In the realm of feeding/gaining, I would more specifically define this tension as being between wanting more and having enough.



First of all, excellent post, bigplaidpants.  Yet another shining example of what a wonderful person you are.

I would completely agree with this statement, or as bigplaidpants put it, this concept. I believe that it is a matter of fact that the differences between fantasy and reality, and the surrounding barriers in which subject them to "beyond" the point of no return, move around from person to person.

I also believe that, as many people have said throughout Dimensions, Feeders/Feedees are not necessarily 'Fat Admirers', nor are 'Fat Admirers' necessarily Feeders (or Feedees, for that matter). However, I would speculate that a great deal of Feeders and Feedees would be into some form of 'Fat Admiration'. Also, I am not sure who would see it in my perspective and who would not, but I do not see Feederism strictly having anything, in concrete, about being into weight gain. I believe that many Feeders, and Feeders mind you, have no desire to experience or "help" another person gain weight. I believe a person that has a desire for food, and/or a desire to see someone eat food, in a purely sexual standpoint, may want nothing to do with gaining weight.

I'm not sure how large in numbers (no pun intended) those people are in this world, but I'm not going to really delve into that either.

I feel that if a woman is a feedee, that does not necessarily mean that she wants to gain weight and might find gaining weight erotic. That's my simple explanation. Rather, I would call them gainers, as has been said before. I also feel that if a man is a feeder, that does not necessarily mean that he is a person that likes very fat women, or has any desire at all to witness his feedee to gain any weight at all.

I also believe that a person who wants to gain weight intentionally, whether that amount is in "Under 100 pounds" category, or "above 500 pounds", or whatever amount, does not place them into a mentally unstable outfit, either. Everyone has their things, some more extreme than others, some very vague and almost nonexistant. I would not say that a woman with a feeding tube in her mouth constitutes her as being mentally unstable, nor would I say that she has the feeding tube in her mouth because of some deep inner emotional outrage. It might just be a passion she has, and wishes to indulge every once in a while.

Also, I would not say that a woman who wants to gain an extreme amount of weight is mentally unstable, either. Being mentally unstable is another way of saying "there is something wrong with that person" - What basis does any person have to say that said person is wrong, weird, or unnatural? I do not believe there is any normal way of being, acting, or indulging. I would go so far as to say that serial killers are not necessarily crazy, unstable, or otherwise "fucked up" in the head. If that's a thing, then that's their thing. It may be wrong, and may affect so many peoples' lives negatively, but that does not make them emotionally ...... (I really cannot think of the word that I am looking for right now, so I will go ahead and, yet again, say) unstable.

I will not go further into that, either, because I am not saying that serial killers are entitled to killing many people. 

I am no more normal than a woman who has a strong desire, be it erotic or just a dream, to gain 5000 pounds. It is what it is. Right and Wrong, Positive and Negative, Normal and Strange vary from person to person. That is what makes the human race so unique, in my opinion.

I've got quite a headache from not being able to word it as properly as I would have liked.


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## big_gurl_lvr

Health, health, health - most important concern in that temptating fantasy (for me). I would never ever ask somebody to gain on purpose for me - no way. I don't want anybody taking consequences of my decisions or choices. If my partner want to do it... i'm ok with it but still would be concerned about health and wouldn't like her to cross health/mobility/good living standart barier. It's also comming from me being selfish - I want partner not somebody totally depended on me... cause it wont be fun. So concluding + couple pounds, yes it's cute, + couple houndred pounds and major effect on health, life quality etc. no way... not a nice thing for me.... I see feeding more like time to time roleplay... more or less frequently... it can turn both people on and have no side effects. 
I don't want to insult anybody here... people who are gaining a lot or gained on purpose - you know better how to live your life... it is just my privat opinion...and I hope you are very happy now!


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## LillyBBBW

I cannot speak for them. I have no choice but to take their word for it that they are happy and well. For everthing there is something to compensate. Their are bidets, shower handles, king sized beds, ramps, scooters, supplements, washing instruments, etc. You don't want that and I don't blame you, yet there are people who are willing and able to adjust. Are they insane? Maybe about as insane as the person who is having their third suspicious mole removed or the NFL player who can't wait to recover from the surgery, multiple fractures and concussion so he can get back on the playing field and into position again. About as crazy as the retired general who lost his leg in the war and considers it a worthy sacrifice for his country. I dont relate to any of that but it's not my call.




ripley said:


> That's the rub...until you are extremely fat you have NO IDEA what it's like, what the consequences are. Twenty-five pounds ago I was a different person...it takes so little, really, to take things from fun and games to a serious change in your moment-to-moment life. An intentional gainer might say "Yes, I know that high blood pressure, diabetes, and mobility issues can occur; I'm aware." But they aren't feeling those things; they remain abstract until they happen. I'm not even talking being housebound or bedridden...you just don't know where that line is for you until you cross it...and then what? How sexy is it if you find one day you can't reach your own ass to wipe it? How sexy is it to not be able to walk very far at all without pain from joints or your back? How sexy is it to have all your furniture breaking down from you being so heavy? Sure, I know there are some that get turned on by those very things...but are they the ones with hygiene issues, joint pain, back pain, and a house full of crappy looking furniture?
> 
> Some fantasies should stay fantasies. People can have all the fantasies they want and more power to them; play-act at it till your heart's content. Extreme weight gain is not like a submissive's collar that you can remove when it's time to go off to work or out to the grocery store...pounds of weight are far harder to remove (if you can remove them at all).
> 
> I think I have a different view than a lot of feeders/feedees in that I think I'd really like the nurturing aspect of having a feeder. The thought of a man bringing me goodies to eat and keeping me satisfied holds a lot of appeal to me. Weight gain does not. Extreme weight gain scares me; it does not arouse or titillate me in the least. I don't understand it...but I don't understand a lot of fetishes. I don't think the man who gets aroused by high-heeled boots is mentally compromised, but a man or woman who gets aroused by his or her partner being unable to participate in daily life, or a woman or man who gets aroused by abdicating mobility...that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.


----------



## crazygrad

I just wanted to ditto what Ripley said. I think even knowing what the potential consequences of significant weight gain are, doesn't mean someone really appreciates what that really means. And I'm not suggesting people are stupid, just that as concepts, the problems seem so far off, and it is so easy to convince oneself that they won't happen to you.

the other issues for me are: while its possible gaining will have no health or other ramifications, they are likely and you never know when they will hit. Will you start having back problems at 250? Blood pressure problems at 275? Diabetes at 300? Apnea at 350, maybe walking will be painful at even lower weights. And the other issue, your problems may not resolve with loss.

So I guess the short of it is, unless you really can think about a life withg these and other problems, I'm not sure how meaningful the concept of informed consent is for this situation.


----------



## crazygrad

Lilly, could you clarify what you mean by someone having suspicious moles removed being akin to gaining? I'm not sure I see the connection here. I've had skin cancer and have suspicious moles removed every year as a precaution. I've never tanned and always wear sunscreen. So for me, mole removal is a prophylaxis.


----------



## AnnMarie

crazygrad said:


> Lilly, could you clarify what you mean by someone having suspicious moles removed being akin to gaining? I'm not sure I see the connection here. I've had skin cancer and have suspicious moles removed every year as a precaution. I've never tanned and always wear sunscreen. So for me, mole removal is a prophylaxis.



I took that she was referring back to her "death by tanning" example, and not that mole removal is akin to gaining. If they have all that removal but keep actively tanning, they're make a measured risk/reward choice of their own. 

I could be wrong... easily.


----------



## crazygrad

Not trying to speak for Lilly either, but after I hit post I went back and looked at her earlier post and thought the same thing. I especially loved the pic from Something about Mary.

I approach preaching against tanning because I've had skin cancer. I've quit gym memberships in protest, so yeah- I think its a pretty ah silly thing to do.


----------



## BBWTexan

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Only the "rational animal" can form sexual attachments to non-sexual objects, and no, puppies humping a pillow does not count.



Is it wrong that I'm so into logic that a simple Aristotilian reference makes me a little hot under the collar?

YIPES!


----------



## LillyBBBW

AnnMarie said:


> I took that she was referring back to her "death by tanning" example, and not that mole removal is akin to gaining. If they have all that removal but keep actively tanning, they're make a measured risk/reward choice of their own.
> 
> I could be wrong... easily.



No, you're right. That's exactly what I meant. Sorry for the confusion crazygrad.


----------



## crazygrad

No prob, like I said, I went back and figured it out. thanks for the pic!

And you, Lilly, are right about many African nations where feeding is an important cultural activity. As it was in earlier European societies. While I don't think it had the same sexual component as it has on this board (it may have though, I don't know) it was all about social position, class, prestige and status and respect.


----------



## Brenda

It is my opinion that many of IRL feeders are puttiing there desires ahead of the health and well being of there partner. They downplay the risks and ignore the negative consequences for the most part. They manipulate there partners to continuing even when it clear it is no longer fun and games for the feedee.

When I see a woman announce she is a feedee and wants to gain to some high weight, my mind automatically goes to others like her that ended poorly. Of course it is not going to go well for these woman. The endings I have seen are premature death, homebound, oxygen aided breathing, abandonment by feeder and unable to care for themselves and if they are lucky they survive and get gastric bypass. 


Fortunately once these things occur the feeder can go onto the next woman. 


Some things are best left in the fantasy realm, this is definitely one of them.

Brenda


----------



## LillyBBBW

crazygrad said:


> No prob, like I said, I went back and figured it out. thanks for the pic!
> 
> And you, Lilly, are right about many African nations where feeding is an important cultural activity. As it was in earlier European societies. While I don't think it had the same sexual component as it has on this board (it may have though, I don't know) it was all about social position, class, prestige and status and respect.



I agree. I suppose I was just exploring the theory that feeding is mainly a western culture thing with the excessive comsumption that is all around, as MissToodles alluded to. We get so accustomed to our daily world here of looking at fat and talking about feederism that we forget that the western world actually considers us all freaks.  Yet in native places where food is scarce the cultural norm is vastly different. Being a bit on the heavy side is what is coveted and people who desire something else are considered weak or weird. Odd how that is. The subject could probably take up a whole thread of its own.


----------



## waldo

Chimpi said:


> First of all, excellent post, bigplaidpants.  Yet another shining example of what a wonderful person you are.
> 
> I would completely agree with this statement, or as bigplaidpants put it, this concept. I believe that it is a matter of fact that the differences between fantasy and reality, and the surrounding barriers in which subject them to "beyond" the point of no return, move around from person to person.
> 
> I also believe that, as many people have said throughout Dimensions, Feeders/Feedees are not necessarily 'Fat Admirers', nor are 'Fat Admirers' necessarily Feeders (or Feedees, for that matter). However, I would speculate that a great deal of Feeders and Feedees would be into some form of 'Fat Admiration'. Also, I am not sure who would see it in my perspective and who would not, but I do not see Feederism strictly having anything, in concrete, about being into weight gain. I believe that many Feeders, and Feeders mind you, have no desire to experience or "help" another person gain weight. I believe a person that has a desire for food, and/or a desire to see someone eat food, in a purely sexual standpoint, may want nothing to do with gaining weight.
> 
> I'm not sure how large in numbers (no pun intended) those people are in this world, but I'm not going to really delve into that either.
> 
> I feel that if a woman is a feedee, that does not necessarily mean that she wants to gain weight and might find gaining weight erotic. That's my simple explanation. Rather, I would call them gainers, as has been said before. I also feel that if a man is a feeder, that does not necessarily mean that he is a person that likes very fat women, or has any desire at all to witness his feedee to gain any weight at all..



So what should we call someone like myself who isn't into the feeding thing but very much enjoys the results of a gainer's (whether she is doing so intentially or not) eating show up on her blossoming body?


I agree that extreme weight-gain to a point where the gainer is becoming seriously compromised in his/her daily life is better left to the world of fantasy. On the other hand, I often think that if I were extremely wealthy and could hire a personal assistant for my gaining partner I might want it to go further. But then maybe that would make me a bad guy for shifting the work of dealing with my partner's limitations to someone else.


----------



## MisticalMisty

Brenda said:


> It is my opinion that many of IRL feeders are puttiing there desires ahead of the health and well being of there partner. They downplay the risks and ignore the negative consequences for the most part. They manipulate there partners to continuing even when it clear it is no longer fun and games for the feedee.
> 
> When I see a woman announce she is a feedee and wants to gain to some high weight, my mind automatically goes to others like her that ended poorly. Of course it is not going to go well for these woman. The endings I have seen are premature death, homebound, oxygen aided breathing, abandonment by feeder and unable to care for themselves and if they are lucky they survive and get gastric bypass.
> 
> 
> Fortunately once these things occur the feeder can go onto the next woman.
> 
> 
> Some things are best left in the fantasy realm, this is definitely one of them.
> 
> Brenda


This isn't entirely directed just at you Brenda, but all people who seem to cry out that feeders are manipulative.

A lot of feedees are educated people who KNOW the risk of their actions. I think it's unfair to state that feeders are manipulative assholes that endanger a woman's life. Bullshit.

Feeding is just like any other sexual act. Unless someone has you tied down and is stuffing cheesecake down your throat, every time you put the fork to your mouth it's a consensual act. 

Have those of you who believe that feeders are manipulative and evil ever talked to one before? Most of the ones I've came in contact with get off on the idea of it..and want you to occasionally stuff yourself for their enjoyment. It's not an all day, everyday activity to them. 

Are there exceptions to the rule? Yes. I just hate when the majority is made out to be evil. Being with a man is a choice. Wanting to gain weight is a choice. Putting food into your body is a choice. 

My thought is..if it ain't happening in my bedroom..it's none of my damn business.


----------



## HeatherBBW

Tina said:


> Feeding that is fun and not destructive is just that -- fun. Feeding that is harmful in that it is so extreme -- and not just the interest in going that far, but actual activity with the goal of immobility in mind -- that it threatens health and ends mobility. I think that kind of behavior is the sign of someone who has some problems.



Tina,

I completely understand your thoughts and perceptions, but I can honestly say as a person who is into extremes.. I find myself pretty balanced and weight gain activities I have participated in, have been fun. I do know that there have been many unstable feedees who may or may not have had mental issues, but please don't group us all together. I think there are many different views from my side of the fence and we are all very different.

Fat Hugs,
Heather


----------



## HeatherBBW

LillyBBBW said:


> I think that a person should be able to do whatever it is they want to do as long as it harms no one else.



YAY! I completely agree with you. After reading the last topic that brought about this thread (Thanks AM!) I have to say I felt cold and misunderstood. I am not the best typer or expresser at much needed times and hopefully some of my posts here will shed some light as to the inner workings of someone who is into extremes that scare others off. But all in all... my body is my own and what decisions I make in my life in regards to it, as long as it doesn't affect other negatively, shouldn't be judged.


----------



## Brenda

I am not disputing that it is consenual. Of course the feedee did choose to go along with it but the consequences are all hers. He always walks away with his life and health, she does not.


Feeding is unlike other sexual acts in that it changes your body in many times permanant ways. 

I said IRL feeders to separate from those with fantasies because there is a huge difference.

To be honest Misty I feel like you base a lot of your opinions on this based on internet interactions and not seeing how it plays out in the real world.

In my nearly 15 years around the SA movement I have seen exactly what I described occur multiple times. Yes, the woman choice to do it, she was not forced but she always paid a very high price. The fact is once she does it and the consequences become more than she bargained for it is just too fucking late to change things.

You are always so concerned with protecting feeders and fa's, yet I don't see that sense of protection for your fellow fat woman. That I find very sad. 






This isn't entirely directed just at you Brenda, but all people who seem to cry out that feeders are manipulative.

A lot of feedees are educated people who KNOW the risk of their actions. I think it's unfair to state that feeders are manipulative assholes that endanger a woman's life. Bullshit.

Feeding is just like any other sexual act. Unless someone has you tied down and is stuffing cheesecake down your throat, every time you put the fork to your mouth it's a consensual act. 

Have those of you who believe that feeders are manipulative and evil ever talked to one before? Most of the ones I've came in contact with get off on the idea of it..and want you to occasionally stuff yourself for their enjoyment. It's not an all day, everyday activity to them. 

Are there exceptions to the rule? Yes. I just hate when the majority is made out to be evil. Being with a man is a choice. Wanting to gain weight is a choice. Putting food into your body is a choice. 

My thought is..if it ain't happening in my bedroom..it's none of my damn business. 
__________________


----------



## AnnMarie

Brenda said:


> You are always so concerned with protecting feeders and fa's, yet I don't see that sense of protection for your fellow fat woman. That I find very sad.



Because more often than not it's always painted with the man who is the evil controller and the woman is a helpless victim, even if she went fully willing into the relationship/gaining, and continued to gain past pains in knees, reach issues, mobility issues, etc. 

I believe in personal responsibility. I've done some extremely stupid things in relationships (long ago) and while I'd love to blame the "abuser" (and in every true sense he was)... I was there, I did those things, I made those horrible choices. I am to blame for getting myself there, and I had to get myself out. 

Again, disclaimer as required, I'm talking about women who enter consensual relationships - not any type of forced/deliberately manipulated situations.

So, while I feel bad for their pains or struggles, they walked that path on their own. There is plenty of anecdotal information about the struggles and risks of obesity, and true... while one may not understand them until they're under them, they KNOW the possibilities.

It would be like me getting hooked on heroin and blaming the fact that I couldn't know what it felt like to be addicted until it was too late. I know the risks, I know the downfalls, I don't tread that path because it's too dangerous to me. People who _choose_ to follow "dangerous" paths have to live with the consequences - that is fully their choice.


----------



## waldo

Brenda said:


> I am not disputing that it is consenual. Of course the feedee did choose to go along with it but the consequences are all hers. He always walks away with his life and health, she does not.
> 
> 
> Feeding is unlike other sexual acts in that it changes your body in many times permanant ways.
> 
> I said IRL feeders to separate from those with fantasies because there is a huge difference.
> 
> To be honest Misty I feel like you base a lot of your opinions on this based on internet interactions and not seeing how it plays out in the real world.
> 
> In my nearly 15 years around the SA movement I have seen exactly what I described occur multiple times. Yes, the woman choice to do it, she was not forced but she always paid a very high price. The fact is once she does it and the consequences become more than she bargained for it is just too fucking late to change things.
> 
> You are always so concerned with protecting feeders and fa's, yet I don't see that sense of protection for your fellow fat woman. That I find very sad.



You are wrong. I have seen Misty show a very vigorous 'sense of protection for fellow fat woman'. In recent times I have seen a more balanced approach from her and that is something that helps the discourse here immensely.


----------



## HeatherBBW

There were so many responses to the original topic that it was hard for me to jump in on each response I wanted to make to different people. So I've decided just to make a post of my own touching on some things I've read and my own personal choices and opinions. I'm not saying I am right or that I'm wrong, I'm just going to try to be honest so maybe there will be some understanding. I think there isn't enough representation from my perspective.

Bah.. now my mind just went haywire and thoughts are floating all over the place. I'll try not to make this post a huge run-on sentence.

I guess I'll start out with one of the things that really make me angry. I am angered when I see feeders condemned for their preferences. It seems there is the urban legend of the evil man carrying donuts who feeds his unwillingly but wanting to be loved partner to immobility and then leaves her for the next gal to fatten. Honestly, I've been in this "fat scene" for a long time and I've only seem one incident of such behavior and quite frankly, the guy was just an asshole the girl, well she just wanted his asshole attention at any cost.

Not every feeder/feedee situation is destructive... not every situation is forced... not every situation is of a domination/submission type relationship... not every situation involves two people... I myself... have gotten fat on my own...

So those who make such judgements that feeders are this evil non-caring group of (it always seems to be) men..... who have you to blame for the hundreds of pounds that I've put on?

What the hell is she talking about... Noone fattened her up? Isn't her partner a feeder? The answer is no and no I wish.

So maybe I'm mental, but as stated above, I sure feel fine. I feel like I am balanced and can look at things objectively. That doesn't stop my extreme fantasies and my desire to live them out.

I've wanted to be fat since I can remember. My most vivid memories are from around age 8 when I'd put on clothes of bigger adults and stuff them and stand in the mirror wondering what it would feel like to be fatter. Some say this behavior must have been triggered by something in my childhood. From all of my digging into my past, I can't say that I can recall anything that clicked on my "wanna be fat" button. I used to see fat ladies and wonder what it felt like to be in their bodies. Maybe like a young girl wonders what it would it feel like to have breasts when she first sees her mom topless. All I know, is I've definitely always felt that fat is feminine and I wanted to be fatter. VERY much fatter.

Growing up I was made fun of like every other fat kid. For me, it was hell and heaven at once. I can't explain it, but being teased was horrible on an embarassment level but it was also stimulating because it reminded me that I was indeed fat. I did feel like I had some power over those bullies though, because in my own mind, I felt like they just "didn't get it". I felt like I had some secret they didn't know and they were just in the dark. Is this unstable? I am really not a shrink, but I know it got me through those rough years and situations.

So I am 33 years old and 470ish pounds. In my life I've dated LOTS of FAs. I've been lucky enough to be in the fat media and have made lots of friends which led to many dates. I probably dated more feeders then I realized, but the only ones I shared anything weight gain related with and sometimes on very small levels (a secret or two here and there) were 3. I'd say that is a minimal number and they certainly couldn't be "blamed" for my fatness.

Honestly, getting fatter was a lonely journey for me. I often yearned to share my deep thoughts with someone and have them agree with me or understand me. Even after finding Dimensions and finding weight gain stories and the like, I still felt like it was too private and I couldn't share. Sure, I've taken food pictures and posted the results of my weight gain. But it's all very easily hidden in my modeling work. There are many girls who take such images that aren't "into it" but are catering to an audience of enthusiasts, it's their job.

It hasn't been until very recently that I've finally been able to type/share on these forums a few of my inner thoughts and I think that is because for the first time (very recently) in my adult sexual life, I've actually been able to tell a lover my thoughts/desires on the subject and have them be on the very same page. This is very enlightening and it made me feel less alone... and more importantly it made me feel open enough about it all to finally share. So here I am.

Extremes. For some it may be fantasy and some it may be reality. Those who choose whatever path for whatever reason... should be exactly that.. their choice. I myself personally thought that when I reached 300 lbs that I'd finally feel huge and fat. Well, I got there... and I didn't. Am I obsessed with being fat? Maybe. I don't know. I just know what is stimulating to me and I can't take it away. I do know, that it's my body and my choice. I've purposely gained since grade school and I've no intentions or an upper limit. I figure I will take things as they come. Do I fantasize about being as big as a king size bed? Absolutely! Is it actually possible? I don't know. Will I try to get that fat? We'll see. It's all very unknown. But I do know that I can't wait to be 500 lbs. I do know that I've given up things in my life in regards to mobility and places I can fit or enjoy... I've made those decisions with a level head. I think everyone has a Pro/Con list in their brains when making decisions, consider my decision making along this line. There are some things that I am limited in that are completely frustrating but very exciting at the same time. Like walking up stairs, bah, what a pain in my fat ass... but.. woah.. I'm so fat that they are hard... make any sense? I sit in a too small chair in a restaurant.. I'm pissed that they don't have better accomodations for bigger people and I'm not comfy... but I'm reminded of my size... hot... very hot. Make any sense? Probably not... but that's the thing... if you aren't into it... it shouldn't make sense and it should be hard for you to judge these reactions if you don't know what it's like to be and the choices I've made.

Blah, there are so many other things to be said here. I just feel... like of all places... there has to be other people like me out there... who think like me... or at least understand me... instead... in the past thread I seen there is lots of confusion, miscommunication, misunderstanding... and I don't want to feel that "am I the only one?" feeling anymore... 

I feel like I totally F-ed up this post, there is just too much to say and if we were all sitting in a room, I could easily express myself. But in a post.. it's too hard to do.

In closing, I do remember one thing that kept on being mentioned about the tube feeding picture and how only unstable women posted in such a situation.... well I've participated in tube feeding and guess what.... I wasn't being degraded by anyone... because there was no one else there. I wasn't submissive to anyone, I wasn't being forced and as far as pictures are concerned, I've thought about doing a set for my site in such a pose... but it's pretty personal... and very hardcore and I normally don't cross such lines on my site. Maybe one day, but I do want to say, that I've done it and I enjoyed it. 

Oh... I remembered another thing. For some (like myself) it really isn't mostly about the food or consumption, for me, it's about being fatter. I'd take a magic pill if there were one and bypass the food and caloric intake. But food is yummy and I do enjoy it like the next person.

Bah, I really screwed this entire post up, but I am just hitting enter. Maybe I'll look insane after all. LOL :doh:


----------



## MisticalMisty

AnnMarie said:


> Because more often than not it's always painted with the man who is the evil controller and the woman is a helpless victim, even if she went fully willing into the relationship/gaining, and continued to gain past pains in knees, reach issues, mobility issues, etc.
> 
> I believe in personal responsibility. I've done some extremely stupid things in relationships (long ago) and while I'd love to blame the "abuser" (and in every true sense he was)... I was there, I did those things, I made those horrible choices. I am to blame for getting myself there, and I had to get myself out.
> 
> Again, disclaimer as required, I'm talking about women who enter consensual relationships - not any type of forced/deliberately manipulated situations.
> 
> So, while I feel bad for their pains or struggles, they walked that path on their own. There is plenty of anecdotal information about the struggles and risks of obesity, and true... while one may not understand them until they're under them, they KNOW the possibilities.
> 
> It would be like me getting hooked on heroin and blaming the fact that I couldn't know what it felt like to be addicted until it was too late. I know the risks, I know the downfalls, I don't tread that path because it's too dangerous to me. People who _choose_ to follow "dangerous" paths have to live with the consequences - that is fully their choice.



Exactly. Brenda, I find it offensive that you think that I'm always only on the side of FAs/Feeders. 

I've been a fat girl all my life and I've struggled with it and have seen others struggle with it. I know what's it like. 

Like AnnMarie, I believe in personal responsibility. I believe that if a woman makes the choice to either become fat, or become fatter that is her business and her choice. I teach my students that actions have consequences, good or bad. Your words were:*but the consequences are all hers. He always walks away with his life and health, she does not.*That is the nature of a feeder/feedee relationship. One of them is going to get fat and sometimes it's a mutual gaining relationship and both of them gain. My point is she made the choice and the consequences of her actions belong to her alone.


----------



## MisticalMisty

waldo said:


> You are wrong. I have seen Misty show a very vigorous 'sense of protection for fellow fat woman'. In recent times I have seen a more balanced approach from her and that is something that helps the discourse here immensely.



Thank you, I really appreciate that. Why the hell would I be against girls like me? If you are wronged thru no fault of your own, I'm on it. HOWEVER these women choose the lifestyle.


----------



## crazygrad

Brenda, I don't think your post directed at Misty was very fair. From what I've seen, she has been a very supportive, friendly, open and accepting member of this community.

To basically call her a cheerleader for feederism or feeders is off the mark here.

I appreciate some of your ideas. Its very easy to see the inequity of these relationships when you see a fat person who has trouble walking, attending to their intimate hygeine, or has any number of medical conditions linked to (causally or exacerbated by) their weight, while their partner has none. And even when someone is aware intellectually of what may happen, that is different than actually really getting what that reality may in fact be like. So I see where you're at, I just think youcharacterized someone unfairly in this case.


----------



## AnnMarie

HeatherBBW said:


> There were so many responses
> 
> *snipped*
> 
> Bah, I really screwed this entire post up, but I am just hitting enter. Maybe I'll look insane after all. LOL :doh:



Well that's just GREAT. That leaves me almost nothing to black mail you with... and I'm beginning to think all my "complimentary" meals are part of a bigger, far more sinister, plan. 

:huh:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

I have to concur that it really looks like a no-win situation for whomever is the feedee- I don't care how much intimacy, love, etc is in the relationship. I have been in love relationships where I felt I was the luckiest woman in the world (not a feeder/feedee relationship but when you get down to it, all types of relationships can correllate somehow, imo) and now I feel lucky as hell not to be in the relationship anymore. I'm just glad I didn't come out of those relationships disabled- not able to function anymore- all in the name of "love". 


***Yes, I'm a bitter old woman 


I also have to add that I'm still "easy" about it all when it's the decision that other people make- it's when I see myself in that scenario that I really get bothered.


----------



## MisticalMisty

HeatherBBW said:


> There were so many responses to the original topic that it was hard for me to jump in on each response I wanted to make to different people. So I've decided just to make a post of my own touching on some things I've read and my own personal choices and opinions. I'm not saying I am right or that I'm wrong, I'm just going to try to be honest so maybe there will be some understanding. I think there isn't enough representation from my perspective.
> 
> 
> Bah, I really screwed this entire post up, but I am just hitting enter. Maybe I'll look insane after all. LOL :doh:



Heather, I don't think you screwed up at all. You put yourself out there to show another perspective to the lifestyle that so many people demonize.

You're right, there isn't enough representation from your perspective and it's because a lot of feeders/feedee avoid posting because they are tired of the constant flaming. I've had at least 4 or 5 people ask me if the feeders still get a bad rap on dimensions. 

What it ultimately boils down to is this: In most cases, it's a consensual act between 2 adults. Either gainer *since there are male feedees and women feeders* is willingly entering into a relationship with another person knowing the consequences of their actions. If they don't know the consequences of their actions, they live under a rock.


----------



## LillyBBBW

HeatherBBW said:


> Oh... I remembered another thing. For some (like myself) it really isn't mostly about the food or consumption, for me, it's about being fatter. I'd take a magic pill if there were one and bypass the food and caloric intake. But food is yummy and I do enjoy it like the next person.



How do you deal with the concept of the medical ramifications of gaining? Do you fear anything happening to you? Is there a conceptual point in your mind at which you may eventually say, "Okay, this is where it has to end,"?


----------



## crazygrad

Heather, I just wanted to thank you for your post, despite (grammar teacher here  )the run one sentences. It is really helping me to think about these issues. From what I've seen with a friend, her approach as she expresses it, is very different, but perhaps its just that she doesn't express herself as well as you did in that post.


----------



## MisticalMisty

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I have to concur that it really looks like a no-win situation for whomever is the feedee-



To you, it's a no win situation. But to a willing feedee it's their IDEAL situation.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

MisticalMisty said:


> To you, it's a no win situation. But to a willing feedee it's their IDEAL situation.




I can't buy that- how is disabling yourself a winning situation?


----------



## MisticalMisty

crazygrad said:


> Brenda, I don't think your post directed at Misty was very fair. From what I've seen, she has been a very supportive, friendly, open and accepting member of this community.
> 
> To basically call her a cheerleader for feederism or feeders is off the mark here.
> 
> I appreciate some of your ideas. Its very easy to see the inequity of these relationships when you see a fat person who has trouble walking, attending to their intimate hygeine, or has any number of medical conditions linked to (causally or exacerbated by) their weight, while their partner has none. And even when someone is aware intellectually of what may happen, that is different than actually really getting what that reality may in fact be like. So I see where you're at, I just think youcharacterized someone unfairly in this case.



Thank you. If anything, I'm a cheerleader for people having the right to enjoy the lifestyle they've chosen with out it being demonized and every MALE person in that lifestyle made out to be a bad guy.

It's amazing to me how we've only focused on male feeders and female "victims."


----------



## MisticalMisty

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I can't buy that- how is disabling yourself a winning situation?



It's what they want. Just because YOU wouldn't want to be immobile, or I wouldn't want to be immobile doesn't mean that the person who is gaining to that point doesn't want to.

Ok...we are talking about the EXTREMES of feederism. Not every single feeder/feedee relationship has the goal of disabling themselves in mind. Every person carries their weight differently and as Heather has stated, weight gain effects people differently. She's able to live a healthy and very productive life at 470 lbs. Could I? I don't know. Is she disabling herself by continuing gaining weight? Doesn't look like it to me.


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## Brenda

""It would be like me getting hooked on heroin and blaming the fact that I couldn't know what it felt like to be addicted until it was too late. I know the risks, I know the downfalls, I don't tread that path because it's too dangerous to me. People who choose to follow "dangerous" paths have to live with the consequences - that is fully their choice.""

I see it as the person who sold you the drugs bought them for you as also responsible.


I see so many fat woman beaten down by life that there judgment is clouded when they meet a man who tells them they are so pretty and would just be a little more so if she gained. So maybe they get swept up by that for a time and than decide it is too much but find turning the tide is not so easy. 

If someone like Heather wants to gain, hey have at it. She is doing it for her own pleasure, not someone elses. While I do think she is taking major risks with her health, it is her health to do with as she chooses.

My sister who was not a feedee but exceptionally heavy found that after she reached around 550lbs it all spiralled out of control. Very quickly she lost her mobility despite, continued to gain despite efforts to turn things around. She died a horrible death in her mid 40's. While her death was not totally weight related it played a big role especially in getting proper treatment and diagnosis. In the last few months before her death she could bearly walk inside her home and stayed mostly in bed. 

This is what I fear will be the end for other woman. Maybe it is none of my business, but I would wish on no one the pain my family and I have faced since we lost her. Her story is not the exception in cases of extreme weight, it can happen to anyone of us.

Brenda


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## LillyBBBW

crazygrad said:


> Heather, I just wanted to thank you for your post, despite (grammar teacher here  )the run one sentences. It is really helping me to think about these issues. From what I've seen with a friend, her approach as she expresses it, is very different, but perhaps its just that she doesn't express herself as well as you did in that post.



Yes, I agree. Very insightful. :bow:


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## Green Eyed Fairy

MisticalMisty said:


> It's what they want. Just because YOU wouldn't want to be immobile, or I wouldn't want to be immobile doesn't mean that the person who is gaining to that point doesn't want to.




Certainly, but couldn't that be where some people start wondering about the mental health aspect of it all? 
Not saying that I do, but don't you see how that could be easily misconstrued?
I mean there are many truly disabled people in this world that would love to have their mobility back and then you see someone willingly giving up some of the greatest gifts a person can have- health and mobility- all for sexual pleasure. Seems like a cheap trade off to me.


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## crazygrad

Yes, I discuss the gendered aspect of this more but I left my gender hat on campus. This belongs in another thread, but why do we (the general we) always assume that women are always lead astray by men and are always the victim or at least get the short end of the stick? Now I'm a feminist and I understand that historically, this is the case, but I do wish it wasn't the sort of instant reflex we have.

My friend (female) is not in a feeding relationship. Her partner doesn't want her to gain and will probably leave her since he thinks she's too fat (he's an ass in soo many ways). Like I said, I'm concerned about her physical problems and the fact that she doesn't seem to be dealing with them. But Heather's explaination helps- she's trying to be the person she sees in her mind. That doesn't really help her deal with some problems, but it helps me appraciate why much of what people (friends, family, doctors) reccomend her to do to help herself.

I am all for living the life they want and I am all for personal responsibility as well. I agree that you have to be living under a rock if you want to gain and don't know what could happen. But I disagree that knowing intellectually what the effects could be always translates into really appreciating what that means. Perhaps this comes from knowing my friend and her approach and ideas as she explains it.


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## MisticalMisty

Brenda said:


> I see so many fat woman beaten down by life that there judgment is clouded when they meet a man who tells them they are so pretty and would just be a little more so if she gained. So maybe they get swept up by that for a time and than decide it is too much but find turning the tide is not so easy.



I'm sorry for what you and your family have gone thru Brenda. I just want to touch on this paragraph.

Want to know why I'm so active on this board? That paragraph is the reason why. I'm a confident fat girl. It was a long road to get to where I am today, but I had to start somewhere. I want those girls who have the self-esteem issues and the body image issues to maybe read my posts and maybe something will click. I don't have a hero complex or anything like that, but I know when I first started around here seeing people like AnnMarie and some others in the chat room really opened my eyes to how my life could be if I just allowed myself to accept who I was.

It hurts me to see things like the hogging thread on the main board and know that there are women who feel the need to sleep with guys for validation. However, we can't be held responsible for the actions of others. We can continue to wear our size loud and proud and hope that others can look and and maybe find their inner strength. Is it sad when women fall into abusive relationships? hell yes, but for me to generalize that all relationships are abusive is just as absurd as someone generalizing that all feeder/feeder relationships are abusive.

I think what really saddens me the most is that people immediately assume that the woman is a victim...oh she has to be a victim. How sad is it when we believe our gender to be unable to make decisions such as these?


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## MisticalMisty

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Certainly, but couldn't that be where some people start wondering about the mental health aspect of it all?
> Not saying that I do, but don't you see how that could be easily misconstrued?
> I mean there are many truly disabled people in this world that would love to have their mobility back and then you see someone willingly giving up some of the greatest gifts a person can have- health and mobility- all for sexual pleasure. Seems like a cheap trade off to me.



One could say the same thing about abortion. Think of how many women and couples struggle daily to conceive a child and to know that someone went and willingly killed the one growing inside them...that's a cheap trade off as well. *Now, I'm all pro-choice so don't get all frappy on me..lol..it's just an example people*


I can't live my life wishing I was like someone else. If that were the case, many of us would be wishing our lives away. We have to play the hand fate dealt us. Is it fair, hell no, but it's life.


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## Brenda

I see this desire to be very similiar to those who wish to be amputees, so they take measures to destroy one or more limbs. Some of them who lack the "nerve" simply pretend to be missing a limb. They like the idea of being handicapped.

It has been found that some of those who were treated with anti depressants no longer felt the desire to maim themselves. So it seems there is some mental health issue associated with that speicfic behavior.

I would be curious if those who wish to be immobile see the other behavior as similar and/or a mental problem or not similar but not a sign of mental unwellness.



""Certainly, but couldn't that be where some people start wondering about the mental health aspect of it all? 
Not saying that I do, but don't you see how that could be easily misconstrued?
I mean there are many truly disabled people in this world that would love to have their mobility back and then you see someone willingly giving up some of the greatest gifts a person can have- health and mobility- all for sexual pleasure. Seems like a cheap trade off to me""


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## HeatherBBW

AnnMarie said:


> Well that's just GREAT. That leaves me almost nothing to black mail you with... and I'm beginning to think all my "complimentary" meals are part of a bigger, far more sinister, plan.
> 
> :huh:



Haha... all my fatty friends who've gotten fatter agree with you 

How about some brunch/lunch on Sunday in Sturbridge, I'm meeting up with Deeds/Stephen.. my treat


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## AnnMarie

HeatherBBW said:


> Haha... all my fatty friends who've gotten fatter agree with you
> 
> How about some brunch/lunch on Sunday in Sturbridge, I'm meeting up with Deeds/Stephen.. my treat




Ooo, tell me details later, I like brunch.


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## HeatherBBW

LillyBBBW said:


> How do you deal with the concept of the medical ramifications of gaining? Do you fear anything happening to you? Is there a conceptual point in your mind at which you may eventually say, "Okay, this is where it has to end,"?



It's hard to say Lilly. I deal with it as it comes. You know me personally so you know about the accident I had a few years ago. This led for my mobility to be significantly altered. I've since changed things in my life to work around it and I get around just fine and do the things I want to do.

I am lucky enough to have great blood pressure, cholesterol and sugar levels. When thinking about hurdles as my gain progresses, I think as in all things so far, I figure out if I can live with what is happening to me, how I can make it better and see if it's a liveable situation for me. 

I am very short and I have had reach problems for years with my little short fat arms... so hygiene has been an issue since I was around 350ish. I use some aids for reaching and I never skipped a beat about it. No humility at all. For some, it might have been a harder path to follow. 

At this point I don't have an "end point" - for me there is no too big. Mind you, this is coming from a lifetime of fantasies built up in my mind. Honestly, I don't think it's humanly possible to be as fat as I've fantasized about being.

I'll just keep along with my happy fat life and see where it takes me. If there comes a point where it's no longer enjoyable and I am sacrificing things without positive gains, then I imagine I'd stop it there with no regrets and just keep to my fantasies and healthy mind for my "fatter fixes". 

Hope that explains


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## HeatherBBW

AnnMarie said:


> Ooo, tell me details later, I like brunch.



I've sent Deeds on the hunt to find a place that has one... time will tell my little fatty.. time will tell.

P.S. I might hit up CT tomorrow night too, not sure. But your always invited.

Okie.. now back to on topic stuff...


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## HeatherBBW

crazygrad said:


> Heather, I just wanted to thank you for your post, despite (grammar teacher here  )the run one sentences. It is really helping me to think about these issues. From what I've seen with a friend, her approach as she expresses it, is very different, but perhaps its just that she doesn't express herself as well as you did in that post.



My pleasure 

It may be the case that she has a completely different take/perspective/fantasy of it all - I think I've met only a handful of people who were dead on with the same things I was into... and still it wasn't exactly the same. We are intricate creatures


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## HeatherBBW

MisticalMisty said:


> To you, it's a no win situation. But to a willing feedee it's their IDEAL situation.



... Exactly.


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## AnnMarie

HeatherBBW said:


> I've sent Deeds on the hunt to find a place that has one... time will tell my little fatty.. time will tell.
> 
> P.S. I might hit up CT tomorrow night too, not sure. But your always invited.
> 
> Okie.. now back to on topic stuff...



Nah, going to try to get some of my clothes together for sale, but Sunday might work... just let me know where/what time and I'll let you know. 

Mmmm, food! :eat2:


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## Eclectic_Girl

LillyBBBW said:


> I do know that I get a lot of attention from African men. My parents tease me about it.



Ditto. The first time I was aggressively pursued was in college, by a member of Ladysmith Black Mambazo when they performed there (I was on the activities committee, so I ran errands for them while they were on campus). My college friends still tease me about it.

***ETA: Posting before you have read the whole thread makes you look like an idiot. If I had waited, this would be about brunch instead.


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## Green Eyed Fairy

I want to say thank you to Misty for her responses and then also want to say that I hope I have offended no one with what I have said here. If I have, then it was certainly not my intention to make anyone feel judged or put down in any way for their preferences. 
The point of this thread, however, seems to be airing out some differences of opinions and I felt like it was the time to voice some of the things I have seen and how I perceive them.


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## HeatherBBW

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I can't buy that- how is disabling yourself a winning situation?



Once again, if you have no fantasies at all relevant to the topic... it would be hard for you to understand. I completely understand you being baffled by the concept, but I can assure you that the idea of immobility is quite the winning situation fantasy-wise and reality-wise for many.


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## Green Eyed Fairy

HeatherBBW said:


> Once again, if you have no fantasies at all relevant to the topic... it would be hard for you to understand. I completely understand you being baffled by the concept, but I can assure you that the idea of immobility is quite the winning situation fantasy-wise and reality-wise for many.




I realize that and don't judge anyone for it- anymore than I would want to be judged for my fantasies/desires. Just trying to help air out the perceptions of others (and myself) since this seems to be the thread for it.


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## HeatherBBW

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I realize that and don't judge anyone for it- anymore than I would want to be judged for my fantasies/desires. Just trying to help air out the perceptions of others since this seems to be the thread for it.



Agreed - I take no offense at all - I was just trying to explain. I can understand why it might boggle the brain if you weren't into it and make you question. I was just answering from this side of the fence  I think it's important to ask questions whatever they may be.


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## MisticalMisty

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I want to say thank you to Misty for her responses and then also want to say that I hope I have offended no one with what I have said here. If I have, then it was certainly not my intention to make anyone feel judged or put down in any way for their preferences.
> The point of this thread, however, seems to be airing out some differences of opinions and I felt like it was the time to voice some of the things I have seen and how I perceive them.



Thank you as well.


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## Jack Skellington

MisticalMisty said:


> It's what they want. Just because YOU wouldn't want to be immobile, or I wouldn't want to be immobile doesn't mean that the person who is gaining to that point doesn't want to.



I question the mental heath of someone that would place themselves in that situation or someone who would do that to another. I also would question the mental health of a person that sees a life of immobility, bed pans, bed sores, poor health, etc. as an ideal situation.


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## MisticalMisty

Jack Skellington said:


> I question the mental heath of someone that would place themselves in that situation or someone who would do that to another. I also would question the mental health of a person that sees a life of immobility, bed pans, bed sores, poor health, etc. as an ideal situation.



I would question the mental health of someone that wants to have 4 or more kids. That doesn't mean that they suffer from a mental problem.

People question the mental health of people who choose alternate religions too. Just because someone chooses something out of the norm, doesn't mean they are mentally ill.

If that were the case, I'd be accused of having mental health problems because I have chosen to stay fat.


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## Eclectic_Girl

I think I can understand the appeal of immobility, but only if it weren't permanent.

As ripley (??) said, I would love to have someone wait on me and bring me goodies. I like nothing better than to spend all day in bed with a stack of magazines and a supply of yummy snacks. (In fact, that may be the plan for tomorrow.) Mostly, that's because I get tired of having to be so bloody self-sufficient all the time. I'm proud that I can be - I just wish there was someone to take up the slack when I'm feeling lazy.

But getting to the point where someone was doing things for me because I was *incapable* of doing them myself? My pride won't allow me to accept help like that. It's ingrained in me from a lifetime of thinking that as long as I can take care of myself, I'm not truly bothering anyone, and I'm the only one inconvenienced by my size (and I'm the only one who has to accept the consequences). Maybe that's partly a trust issue on my part - I have yet to meet someone else who is not also fat who is proactive in accommodating my needs. And if those needs became greater, I would have a harder and harder time having to ask for help all the time. I'm stubborn like that. And I think that I'd also have a harder time feeling like a was an equal partner in the relationship (which is very important to me) if I relied on someone else to get me to the bathroom and wipe my ass. 

Unless I am "New Hampshire" sick - then I'll take all the help I can get.


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## Jack Skellington

MisticalMisty said:


> Just because someone chooses something out of the norm, doesn't mean they are mentally ill.



Whether doing it to yourself or others, abuse is not an alternate lifestyle.


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## MisticalMisty

Jack Skellington said:


> Whether doing it to yourself or others, abuse is not an alternate lifestyle.



You're assuming it's an abusive relationship.


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## Jack Skellington

MisticalMisty said:


> You're assuming it's an abusive relationship.



Harming yourself or harming others is abuse.


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## MisticalMisty

Jack Skellington said:


> Harming yourself or harming others is abuse.



Well, society tells me that being fat is harmful, so are you saying that I'm abusing myself? 

Really, everything isn't so cut and dry, black and white.


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## AnnMarie

Eclectic_Girl said:


> Unless I am "New Hampshire" sick - then I'll take all the help I can get.



When you're "New Hampshire" sick, you take the help because if you don't take it.... you die. LOL 

But yeah, I can understand what you're saying. I'm really independent, but I do love when there is someone who enjoys the "honey dos"... I wish I had the honey to do it. If he wanted to fetch me a bowl of ice cream, yay me!

Immobility doesn't "work" for me because I enjoy doing too many things, and being as physically comfortable doing them as possible. But that is MY comfort, and I can't assume that mine is what anyone else's may be. If your mind views your body in an altered way, maybe you're really only comfortable when you get wherever that is. Maybe you find your real comfort level on the journey - it may not always be about the destination. 

Sorry Carla, that wasn't even to you specifically, just made me think about it.


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## Jack Skellington

MisticalMisty said:


> Well, society tells me that being fat is harmful, so are you saying that I'm abusing myself?



Thin and fat are harmful in extremes. Immobility is obviously an extreme.


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## LillyBBBW

I had an aunt who was in an accident. The folks in my family aren't exactly the brightest beads in the rosary but she was a shining star, very smart. She was in a roof collapse and was basically left bedridden. Because she was immobile and had the fat gene she was a very big woman, 512 at last weigh in but probably much more. Despite all that she was very healthy and had no issues with blood pressure, etc. and she had all kinds of ingeneous ways in caring for herself.

People were exceedingly cruel towards her whenever we went out. She would come to places with us in her wheelchair and people would shoot us mean looks assuming she ate herself into a wheelchair. It really broke her down to the point where she stopped wanting to leave the comfort and safety of her home, a woman who once longed to travel. It never dawns on people that fat people have accidents too, or that normal sized handicapped people are sedantary and they don't weigh 500 pounds. 

I want to be careful in what I say because I don't want to come off as if I'm gung ho about immobility. Just that when somebody becomes immobile for any reason I'm uncomfortable with the morbid shadow that is cast on it. People who become immobile are not outcasts or helpless. I don't know a good way to say this because I'm just overwhelmed right now. I just don't feel comfortable promoting immobility as a door slammed in the face. It's not something I would say to a child, someone who has been in an accident, someone who is born with a disability or even someone who becomes that way due to reckless driving or a weight related issues. It seems strange to me to say to one person "You can do it!" and to another, "You're doomed," because we don't agree with how they got that way.

That being said, I do think that people should do their best to take care of themselves. Heather I don't judge you at all for feeling the way you feel. I just hope that you would seriously consider doing some small things like exercising your legs or strengthening your muscles to help yourself stay healthy for one thing, and to help the people around you who love and care for you. If anything happens to you, the people around will be the ones to fill in that gap where your own abilities leave off - it won't effect just you. With that in mind, consider taking on a more proactive role in insuring the best for your health and the health of the people around you while you explore this lifestyle.

*phew* Ok I'm through now, no more preachin'. Sorry.


----------



## Tina

HeatherBBW said:


> Tina,
> 
> I completely understand your thoughts and perceptions, but I can honestly say as a person who is into extremes.. I find myself pretty balanced and weight gain activities I have participated in, have been fun. I do know that there have been many unstable feedees who may or may not have had mental issues, but please don't group us all together. I think there are many different views from my side of the fence and we are all very different.
> 
> Fat Hugs,
> Heather



Who did I group together? I thought I have been making distinctions all along.  I would really like to know, because that's twice now that I feel you are misreading me, and I don't get it. So, are you saying that I am grouping together extreme feeders and feedees whose only interest is the incapaciation and pain of the feedee in mind (and before anyone else goes there, again, mis-characterizing, I am NOT saying all feeders have pain and incapacitation in mind, and never have)? If so, I can live with that; if not, please explain how I have grouped everyone else togther, because I have painstakingly tried _not_ to do that. Are all situations, feeders and feedees the same? No. I have never claimed they are.

Here's something from your post -- a post which I appreciated reading and gaining insight on. This, though, shows how people read through their own filters, and often don't really 'see' the words they are reading:

Heather:


> In closing, I do remember one thing that kept on being mentioned about the tube feeding picture and how only unstable women posted in such a situation....


You say you remember, but in fact, I believe you mis-remember if you are talking about my posts. I never -- not once -- put it that way. What I said was *the photos I had seen*, and admitted I hadn't seen them all. I would never, ever make such blanket statements.

I understand liking to be fat, I enjoy it to a certain degree myself, and almost daily (the exceptions being pain issues), but we do differ in the rest, as I have been to the point where it was too much for my body; and relentless, literally 24/7 pain is no picnic (nor is looking immobility square in the face, as I did), and decidedly _un_sexy. You are young, and your body can handle it. One day it will not, but that is your life and your decision. I do wish you the best in that, though, and I do not think you "look insane."

You say you're into extremes, and that you want to be huge. You say that if it gets to the point where it becomes unhealthy you'll stop, and that is a healthy outlook, I think. Thing is, though, that not all things can be reversed. But still, you are aware of what you are doing and it seems you don't want to stop living your life. Frankly, people can do what they like, and I'm not trying to stop anyone. But my opinion is that anyone wanting to do this to someone else in order to incapacitate them, or someone wanting to do it themselves or have it done to them so that they are incapacitated and no longer have a life outside of sitting, legs splayed, on a bed forevermore, people wiping their asses and having to wipe them down so that they never really feel clean, because they cannot even shower -- those people have a problem, in my eyes. My opinion, yes. I won't try to stop you or tell you that you are nuts, because I don't think you are. There is a huge difference in the way you talk about yourself and how others (others that I referred to before) have, and it is that difference that I based my _observations_ (_not judgements_) on. 

Again, thanks for sharing your views and life with the board. I understand not being able to always express oneself in writing as well as in person, just as the obverse is true for others (me, for instance). But I think you expressed yourself very well, and wish you the best in this and wish you continued good health.

As for Brenda, she has seen some who have seen the depths of hell. Her opinion is her opinion, just as we all have one. It's all theory when it's on a message board. When it has become part of your life, it takes on a whole different cast and meaning.


----------



## Cheryl05

I feel a certain empathy for the feeder community, even though I've no desire to practice it myself. There is an unfair underlying all or nothing presumption on the part of many feederism critics that the feeders/feedees I've chatted with do not reflect as being true. 

Feederism, at least as I understand it, is simply deliberate weight gain for erotic purposes. It is not, as its critics often assume, always or even usually continuous to the point of immobility or even 200+ pounds from a starting point. 

Some feeders/feedees gain, lose and regain the same weight multiple times within a range just because they like doing it. Others do it as a one time thing to a certain level and stop just for the experience. Isn't condemning such couples for consensually enjoying such behavior needless meddling in something that is really no one else's business?


----------



## alienlanes

Wow, lots of new posts to chew on since I last checked in! A few disjointed thoughts before I go to bed:

Several people pointed out that weight gain, unlike most fetishes, is something that's visible -- unlike S&M, "you can't take the collar off," as someone put it. Dan Savage made the same point about FA-ism in his column a few months ago. 

Yeah, this adds a new layer of complexity to the situation -- but I don't think it changes the basic principle that _any_ sexual relationship needs to be based on mutual satisfaction and consent. 

Cheryl makes the good point, which we should all be keeping in mind, that there's a big spectrum of possible reactions to gaining fantasies in between "doing nothing to satisfy them" and "indulging them to the point of immobility". There are plenty of possibilities for food-based roleplay, etc. that don't necessarily involve actual weight gain.

Heather's post pushed a lot of buttons for me. I think it's important for people who don't have the fetish to try to empathize with the fact that _some people genuinely do_ -- it's part of who we are, wired into our brains at a subconscious, irrational level. Trying to repress it _hurts_, the same way that trying to stay in the closet must hurt gay people. 

We all have to find a healthy way to live with our subconscious minds, and we all make different choices. To give you all an idea of where I'm coming from, I guess I'll confess here that my own fantasies involve mutual gaining -- in my fantasies, I'd love to be an SSBHM. :blush: 

But I have health problems of my own and can't do it. Does this frustrate me? Hell yeah! But it's a trade-off I've chosen, as an individual, to make. If someone were to tell me "no, you _can't_ gain!", I'd get very angry. And I respect and admire the fact that other people have made different decisions than I have.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that these feelings exist, and no, they're not rational, but they're _there_, they're not just a simple A-causes-B result of insecurity or whatever, and we have to deal with them. Heather's post touched a nerve for me, because, like her, I've had WG fantasies for as long as I can remember, and like her I was "the fat kid" in middle school. I became more average-sized when I had my teenage growth spurt -- I got taller but not bigger -- but I know exactly what she means when she says that being the fat kid was "heaven and hell at once." The teasing and embarrassment hurt, but it was also secretly a turn-on.

I know this makes no logical sense, and I know that it might even seem offensive to those of you who were/are fat and _don't_ have these fantasies -- why would we _deliberately_ put ourselves through that? I'd imagine it feels, in a way, like we're mocking you -- but it's the way some of us are wired.

Is it weird? Definitely. Is it a symptom of some deeper, underlying psychological problem? Maybe. But it's not going away, and each of us has to figure out the way of dealing with it that best fits our situation. If there's one principle I _do_ believe is universally applicable to sexuality, it's this: _if you repress your kink, it just messes you up worse_. (Hello, Pastor Haggard!) Some people (like pedophiles) have to accept that they _can't_ consensually act on their fantasies, and figure out how to live with that -- but we don't fall into that category.

I find it bizarre that someone would be turned on by having a limb amputated, but some people are. I'm sure there's a debate just like this one on some amputee forum. All I can try to do is give them the benefit of the doubt and try to empathize with the fact that, like all of us, they have subconscious/irrational needs and desires that they have to learn to healthily integrate into their personal lives.

OK, I'll step down off my soapbox now. I need to get some sleep :blink:. This turned out to be a much more ranty and personal post that I expected, but in the spirit of what Misty said -- that maybe my being honest and confident will help someone else -- I'll go ahead and post it.

(Heather, if you do come to the CT dance tomorrow night, let me buy you a drink -- in gratitude for that post and for everything else you've done for the community that I'm finally working up the nerve to become a part of.)


----------



## Tina

SlackerFA said:


> I guess what I'm trying to say is that these feelings exist, and no, they're not rational, but they're _there_, they're not just a simple A-causes-B result of insecurity or whatever, and we have to deal with them. Heather's post touched a nerve for me, because, like her, I've had WG fantasies for as long as I can remember, and like her I was "the fat kid" in middle school. I became more average-sized when I had my teenage growth spurt -- I got taller but not bigger -- but I know exactly what she means when she says that being the fat kid was "heaven and hell at once." The teasing and embarrassment hurt, but it was also secretly a turn-on.
> 
> I know this makes no logical sense, and I know that it might even seem offensive to those of you who were/are fat and _don't_ have these fantasies -- why would we _deliberately_ put ourselves through that? I'd imagine it feels, in a way, like we're mocking you -- but it's the way some of us are wired.



Nah. I HATED my fatness growing up, but that doesn't seem offensive to me. You, after all, have a right to feel how you feel, and you enjoying your fat when young, didn't make life more painful for me or anyone else, so go with it.  Hell, it would have been nice to feel that way, because at least there would have been SOMETHING to feel good about in all of that pain and humiliation. I didn't start liking my fat body until my eary thirties, and the only times I'm not thrilled with this bod is when I'm in pain for any length of time; but that's a separate issue.


----------



## alienlanes

Thanks, Tina!

One more response, then I really do need to get to sleep. I just want to make it clear that one of the posts I was responding to was this one:



Brenda said:


> I see so many fat woman beaten down by life that there judgment is clouded when they meet a man who tells them they are so pretty and would just be a little more so if she gained. So maybe they get swept up by that for a time and than decide it is too much but find turning the tide is not so easy.



That's probably true -- and guys who take advantage of them are exploitative asshats. (How much profanity can I use on this forum, anyway? But you get my drift.) I haven't been involved in the BBW/FA scene for very long, so I don't know how many of these cases exist. But, as Heather and I have both said, some people, male and female, genuinely do have these fantasies.


----------



## ripley

One thing that really bothers me is that everyone is always saying that the feeders/feedees get "picked on" and can't we just let them be etc. etc....well, feeders never let ME be.

I'm quite comfortably into SSBBW territory. and yet it's _still_ never enough. If they are FAs (which I don't think they are) I've got more than enough F to A. There is something wrong when that is not enough; when I'm asked time and time again if I'm gaining or would be amenable to gaining. I'm not a person, I'm a balloon to be inflated.

Some girls are feedees and get off on it...I get that. More power to 'em, and I'll offer them all the sympathy I can muster when they post on the main board about being bedridden, are too big to fit in the ambulance, that their upkeep is ruining their husband's back and their marriage, they're in constant pain, and could someone please help?

A feeder told me, on first talking to me, that he'd marry me if I gained to 500. I was curious, and asked him if he could ever be happy in a relationship if the woman wasn't actively gaining, and he said no, that he couldn't be 100% happy. I don't think that's such a rare thing for a feeder. And to me it is WRONG. It puts a burden on any partner when the other partner's happiness depends on their altering their very being, in ways that, like it or not, are ultimately harmful.

You say let the feeders/feedees be, that it's consensual, that the participants are into it and know the risks...I say that maybe in a perfect world that's true. In the real world, there are exponentially more feeders than there are genuine feedees, and those feeders are so driven, so very very driven, that they actively recruit women to gain. Nine out of ten people who PM me in chat ask me if I'm gaining or would be amenable to gaining. 

You know what the sad thing is? At one point I was tempted. I'm a very smart person, and I know my worth. I am lonely, though, and just looking at the odds of me finding a mate...they would increase tremendously if I would pretend to be a feedee. And if I could be tempted, so could other women. Couple the need for love and a mate with a SSBBW's natural inclination to creep up in weight...and you've got a volatile situation. Sure, he's not forcing her, controlling her, whatever...but it _is_ a situation that mentally is not healthy for the woman. 

I think it's interesting the comparison Brenda (?) drew between those that are aroused by amputating their own limbs and feeders/feedees. I wonder if people think that's A-OK 'cause after all, they know they'll end up in a wheelchair or with a prosthesis, but hey, they'll have a boner doing it so it's all good?


----------



## James

Tina said:


> ...the only times I'm not thrilled with this bod is when I'm in pain for any length of time; but that's a separate issue.



Is it though I wonder? A _completely _separate issue?

I completely take the "each to their own - as long as it doesn't hurt anyone" view towards the feeder-feedee relationships ONLY if both parties are turned on by it sexually. 

If one party is doing it to please the other then its not balanced. The feedee will at some point down the line (assuming an extreme case) experience mobility difficulties and see certain aspects of their lifestyle become limited or closed off to them. Unless that is actually what the feedee wants (or is prepared to accept as a consequence of realising their fantasy) then I really couldn't condone such a relationship. 

I don't condemn it either per se... as I say, each to their own. 

The undercurrent of "be bigger to be more beautiful" thinking that seems to exist across Dimensions... (and no doubt reflects the male part of the community as a stereotype) really irritates me sometimes. The cajoling and praising of BBWs by 'FAs' to reach the kind of weights that can only ultimately result in the kind of physical pain of which Tina speaks seems like a wholly negative and disrespectful thing to me... I say this, not least because a lot of the BBWs that come here are, initially at least, looking for acceptance... looking for an oasis of "*its ok to be you*" away from the mainstream "*be thinner*" message. To come to a place where the flipside to this is pushed as an ideal... i.e "*be fatter*" does nothing for size acceptance (slightly off topic... Sorry AM  ... and I realise that this kind of thing is the reason we have so many different forums).


----------



## James

ripley said:


> You know what the sad thing is? At one point I was tempted. I'm a very smart person, and I know my worth. I am lonely, though, and just looking at the odds of me finding a mate...they would increase tremendously if I would pretend to be a feedee. And if I could be tempted, so could other women. Couple the need for love and a mate with a SSBBW's natural inclination to creep up in weight...and you've got a volatile situation. Sure, he's not forcing her, controlling her, whatever...but it _is_ a situation that *mentally *is not healthy for the woman.



Rep is due....

Agreed... as I said in my previous post - if both parties are into it on a sexual level then its totally cool by me... their business...

but assuming thats not the case, then mental aspect of a bbw/ssbbw continually doing something to themselves that they dont want to... on account of wanting her to please her partner sounds like a permanent "am I good enough for him" style headf**k to me...


----------



## waldo

SlackerFA said:


> Wow, lots of new posts to chew on since I last checked in! A few disjointed thoughts before I go to bed:
> 
> Several people pointed out that weight gain, unlike most fetishes, is something that's visible -- unlike S&M, "you can't take the collar off," as someone put it. Dan Savage made the same point about FA-ism in his column a few months ago.
> 
> Yeah, this adds a new layer of complexity to the situation -- but I don't think it changes the basic principle that _any_ sexual relationship needs to be based on mutual satisfaction and consent.
> 
> Cheryl makes the good point, which we should all be keeping in mind, that there's a big spectrum of possible reactions to gaining fantasies in between "doing nothing to satisfy them" and "indulging them to the point of immobility". There are plenty of possibilities for food-based roleplay, etc. that don't necessarily involve actual weight gain.
> 
> Heather's post pushed a lot of buttons for me. I think it's important for people who don't have the fetish to try to empathize with the fact that _some people genuinely do_ -- it's part of who we are, wired into our brains at a subconscious, irrational level. Trying to repress it _hurts_, the same way that trying to stay in the closet must hurt gay people.
> 
> We all have to find a healthy way to live with our subconscious minds, and we all make different choices. To give you all an idea of where I'm coming from, I guess I'll confess here that my own fantasies involve mutual gaining -- in my fantasies, I'd love to be an SSBHM. :blush:
> 
> But I have health problems of my own and can't do it. Does this frustrate me? Hell yeah! But it's a trade-off I've chosen, as an individual, to make. If someone were to tell me "no, you _can't_ gain!", I'd get very angry. And I respect and admire the fact that other people have made different decisions than I have.
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to say is that these feelings exist, and no, they're not rational, but they're _there_, they're not just a simple A-causes-B result of insecurity or whatever, and we have to deal with them. Heather's post touched a nerve for me, because, like her, I've had WG fantasies for as long as I can remember, and like her I was "the fat kid" in middle school. I became more average-sized when I had my teenage growth spurt -- I got taller but not bigger -- but I know exactly what she means when she says that being the fat kid was "heaven and hell at once." The teasing and embarrassment hurt, but it was also secretly a turn-on.
> 
> I know this makes no logical sense, and I know that it might even seem offensive to those of you who were/are fat and _don't_ have these fantasies -- why would we _deliberately_ put ourselves through that? I'd imagine it feels, in a way, like we're mocking you -- but it's the way some of us are wired.
> 
> Is it weird? Definitely. Is it a symptom of some deeper, underlying psychological problem? Maybe. But it's not going away, and each of us has to figure out the way of dealing with it that best fits our situation. If there's one principle I _do_ believe is universally applicable to sexuality, it's this: _if you repress your kink, it just messes you up worse_. (Hello, Pastor Haggard!) Some people (like pedophiles) have to accept that they _can't_ consensually act on their fantasies, and figure out how to live with that -- but we don't fall into that category.
> 
> I find it bizarre that someone would be turned on by having a limb amputated, but some people are. I'm sure there's a debate just like this one on some amputee forum. All I can try to do is give them the benefit of the doubt and try to empathize with the fact that, like all of us, they have subconscious/irrational needs and desires that they have to learn to healthily integrate into their personal lives.
> 
> OK, I'll step down off my soapbox now. I need to get some sleep :blink:. This turned out to be a much more ranty and personal post that I expected, but in the spirit of what Misty said -- that maybe my being honest and confident will help someone else -- I'll go ahead and post it.
> 
> (Heather, if you do come to the CT dance tomorrow night, let me buy you a drink -- in gratitude for that post and for everything else you've done for the community that I'm finally working up the nerve to become a part of.)



Excellent post. I would also admit here that I have fantasies of mutual gain or even of being the sole gainer in a relationship. However, I am torn between the fantasy/desire of being fat with the reality of wanting to stay thinner. So in practice I am a hypocrite by wanting my wife to stay fat and not do so myself. This is on top of the guilt that an FA with no desires of being fat himself/herself might feel about the effects of the desire on one's partner. But in my defense, I do prefer my wife to remain mid-sized as a kind of compromise between my desires and reality.

Regarding the amputee fetish, I guess it is a bit more permanent to have a limb removed than to gain weight which theoretically can be lost. However, one should not forget the stretched out skin which sags down after a large weight loss and would require some surgery to remove. It also reminds me of reading a letter to the advice column in Penthouse from a guy who wanted his 30-something wife to have all her teeth pulled because of his fetish for having a toothless lover. Permanent but at least you can live a relatively normal life with dentures and nowadays with implants the dentures can be secured in place for a much better fit.

Thanks to Heather for her brave posts here. Having met her years ago at one of her dances, I think she seems a very kind-hearted person.


----------



## waldo

ripley said:


> One thing that really bothers me is that everyone is always saying that the feeders/feedees get "picked on" and can't we just let them be etc. etc....well, feeders never let ME be.
> 
> I'm quite comfortably into SSBBW territory. and yet it's _still_ never enough. If they are FAs (which I don't think they are) I've got more than enough F to A. There is something wrong when that is not enough; when I'm asked time and time again if I'm gaining or would be amenable to gaining. I'm not a person, I'm a balloon to be inflated.
> 
> Some girls are feedees and get off on it...I get that. More power to 'em, and I'll offer them all the sympathy I can muster when they post on the main board about being bedridden, are too big to fit in the ambulance, that their upkeep is ruining their husband's back and their marriage, they're in constant pain, and could someone please help?
> 
> A feeder told me, on first talking to me, that he'd marry me if I gained to 500. I was curious, and asked him if he could ever be happy in a relationship if the woman wasn't actively gaining, and he said no, that he couldn't be 100% happy. I don't think that's such a rare thing for a feeder. And to me it is WRONG. It puts a burden on any partner when the other partner's happiness depends on their altering their very being, in ways that, like it or not, are ultimately harmful.
> 
> You say let the feeders/feedees be, that it's consensual, that the participants are into it and know the risks...I say that maybe in a perfect world that's true. In the real world, there are exponentially more feeders than there are genuine feedees, and those feeders are so driven, so very very driven, that they actively recruit women to gain. Nine out of ten people who PM me in chat ask me if I'm gaining or would be amenable to gaining.
> 
> You know what the sad thing is? At one point I was tempted. I'm a very smart person, and I know my worth. I am lonely, though, and just looking at the odds of me finding a mate...they would increase tremendously if I would pretend to be a feedee. And if I could be tempted, so could other women. Couple the need for love and a mate with a SSBBW's natural inclination to creep up in weight...and you've got a volatile situation. Sure, he's not forcing her, controlling her, whatever...but it _is_ a situation that mentally is not healthy for the woman.
> 
> I think it's interesting the comparison Brenda (?) drew between those that are aroused by amputating their own limbs and feeders/feedees. I wonder if people think that's A-OK 'cause after all, they know they'll end up in a wheelchair or with a prosthesis, but hey, they'll have a boner doing it so it's all good?



You have made an excellent point. In reality there are far too few genuine and willing female feedees/gainers to go around for all the guys who want to live out their feeder fantasy. And it is absolutely true that they in large numbers are looking for fat women to 'recruit' into the lifestyle with varying levels of coersion. I had one guy tell me in a personal chat that with some of these lonely fat girls all you need to do is 'kill them with kindness' and you can manipulate them to become your feedee. In fact in December one girl posted on this board about having gotten involved with just such a feeder who was very nice to her but had a strong interest in having her become his submissive feedee to which she posted of being very tempted but concerned about the extreme expectations he had for their relationship. I have also heard from other women that they are continuously asked on Dim chat and otherwise about their intentions regarding gaining how much they eat, etc. etc. Most of these guys just seem to be like immature kids in a candy shop and totally out of touch with where the women are coming from. I see most of them as just being overzealous and foolish rather than malicious.

ETA: I guess I am a rat for divulging the private revelations from another guy to the board of women here


----------



## MisticalMisty

waldo said:


> *I have also heard from other women that they are continuously asked on Dim chat and otherwise about their intentions regarding gaining how much they eat, etc. etc.* Most of these guys just seem to be like immature kids in a candy shop and totally out of touch with where the women are coming from. I see most of them as just being overzealous and foolish rather than malicious.



Again, it's a person's responsibility to realize what is right and what is wrong for them. It's easy on the internet..STOP TALKING TO THE PERSON! I've done that on many occasions. As soon as they make me uncomfortable, they get a message telling them so and then I don't speak with them again.

One of the first questions I ask when a guy PMs me is what "is he." I'll ask if he's just an fa, or a feeder..etc. I want to know who I'm talking to. I know that if he's a feeder into weight gain, then he's not the guy for me. So he's told and we can continue to chat as friends or we can end communication.





Ripley said:


> You know what the sad thing is? At one point I was tempted. I'm a very smart person, and I know my worth. I am lonely, though, and just looking at the odds of me finding a mate...they would increase tremendously if *I would pretend to be a feedee.* And if I could be tempted, so could other women. Couple the need for love and a mate with a SSBBW's natural inclination to creep up in weight...and you've got a volatile situation. Sure, he's not forcing her, controlling her, whatever...but it is a situation that mentally is not healthy for the woman.



Pretending to be anything you are not is deceitful, no matter if you're talking about being a feedee or not. I've been lonely too. It can be hard, but you can't allow yourself to change to find some man. It's not worth it and eventually the relationship will implode anyways because it's been built on lies.

Again, the temptation is a personal responsibility. Do I feel sorry for the girls waldo mentioned? somewhat, but they are adults and have to do what's right for them. 




Ripley said:


> One thing that really bothers me is that everyone is always saying that the feeders/feedees get "picked on" and can't we just let them be etc. etc....well, feeders never let ME be.



Just ignore them. Unless they have approached you in real life, hit the delete or ignore button. It really IS that simple. 

Feeders are just like FA's just like members of the opposite sex when dating. The bad apples spoil the bunch. Not every feeder is some manipulative asshole looking to fatten his woman at all cost. Not every FA is some creepy dude that only wants to date your fat..Not every man/woman is a jerk/bitch. Do they exist? Yes..but it's unfair to generalize and stereotype the entire group based on the actions of a select few.

I'm sorry you've had bad experiences Ripley, I really am and I more than understand the loneliness of being a ssbbw. You just have to fight to stay true to who you are no matter who you come in contact with.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

James said:


> Is it though I wonder? A _completely _separate issue?
> 
> I completely take the "each to their own - as long as it doesn't hurt anyone" view towards the feeder-feedee relationships ONLY if both parties are turned on by it sexually.
> 
> If one party is doing it to please the other then its not balanced. The feedee will at some point down the line (assuming an extreme case) experience mobility difficulties and see certain aspects of their lifestyle become limited or closed off to them. Unless that is actually what the feedee wants (or is prepared to accept as a consequence of realising their fantasy) then I really couldn't condone such a relationship.
> 
> I don't condemn it either per se... as I say, each to their own.
> 
> The undercurrent of "be bigger to be more beautiful" thinking that seems to exist across Dimensions... (and no doubt reflects the male part of the community as a stereotype) really irritates me sometimes. The cajoling and praising of BBWs by 'FAs' to reach the kind of weights that can only ultimately result in the kind of physical pain of which Tina speaks seems like a wholly negative and disrespectful thing to me... * I say this, not least because a lot of the BBWs that come here are, initially at least, looking for acceptance... looking for an oasis of "its ok to be you" away from the mainstream "be thinner" message. To come to a place where the flipside to this is pushed as an ideal... i.e "be fatter" does nothing for size acceptance *(slightly off topic... Sorry AM  ... and I realise that this kind of thing is the reason we have so many different forums).




I repped you for this.....it's all absolutely true. You can easily go from feeling hideously ugly in the real world to feeling like a piece of meat that needs to learn to "fit into the program" - this is especially true in the chat. 
Ripley is correct about the people (read men) that seem overly eager to treat you like a balloon there. I also agree with Misty about asking them straight up if they are feeders or what and I always feel the need to tell them right off the bat "you ain't feeding me buddy"  . (read I have grown paranoid about feeders in chat WHEN THEY ARE IN THE MAIN CHAT ROOM and really have grown some sort of distrust/dislike about some of them that I previously have not had until Dims chat and my contacts with SOME of them- some others have been nice, polite men with whom I enjoy chatting regularly) I guess this always goes back to approach and how any particular man thinks he should/can treat a woman and is not always a characteristic of feeders only, in all fairness.

I think James' post is quite relevant to the topic at hand because I think it helps get to the heart of the matter here as to why some women here simply don't like the feeder guys.


----------



## LillyBBBW

It's practically a cliche around here. I know of several women who come to sites like this and say they want to gain 'wait' plz hlp because they want to meet men, and then feeders who complain about all the fake feedees, etc. I get approached by male feed hogs online all the time too which really irritates me as well and I AM a feedee*. ( *I do hate that description, but that's for another day ) I rarely go to chat simply because I get tired of swatting them away, but I can see how if someone is longing for a person in their life it could get frustrating after a while when it seems like all the FA's want a feedee, something that as a feedee I can tell you is completely false. After a while a person might contemplate the possibility of caving in to these goons who continue to paw at them for feed fodder. You've got 22 rabid abusive feeders who've gathered in one place and it can obscure the bigger picture that these goons do NOT represent the norm. They are idiots. Either that or they are just looking for a cyber turn on from a fattie who is willing to talk to them about their fat. If you think these men are going to sweep you off your feet if you say the right words then I've got a bridge to sell you in Kansas. Unless you're into that kind of thing, don't waste your time even talking with these men. They have a wife, kids and picket fence at home or they live with their mother and have never worked a day in their lives. You don't want them.

Unfortunately, predators come in all persuasions. A person doesn't have to be a feeder to be a toxic person you need to avoid. You can go around and tell the insecure women how to avoid getting stuck with a toxic feeder only for them to fall into the hands of a drunk, a gambler, a felon or just a plain ass. What I'm trying to say is, an ass is an ass. Feeder is not synonymous with Awful Person, Feedee (cringe) is not synonymous with lonely f*%ed up suicide risk - though both can be. I don't want to de-legitimize anyone's bad experiences with toxic feeders/feedees because surely I agree with them. I just want to stop short of lumping us all together as being dangerous people because it's not true. It's this climate that makes people afraid to step forward which merely feeds the hysteria. These angry assumptions prevent people from hearing from anyone other than the freaks in chat.


----------



## Tina

James said:


> Is it though I wonder? A _completely _separate issue?


Hi James. 

Yes and no. It is separate because I love my body independent of the pain, when it's just regular ol' pain. But when it gets to be too much, for too long, I'm not so thrilled with my body. So of course they are intrinsically tied on the one hand, but my journey to lovin' the fat was a separate issue. 

I hope this makes sense; I just woke up.


----------



## SamanthaNY

James said:


> The undercurrent of "be bigger to be more beautiful" thinking that seems to exist across Dimensions... (and no doubt reflects the male part of the community as a stereotype) really irritates me sometimes. The cajoling and praising of BBWs by 'FAs' to reach the kind of weights that can only ultimately result in the kind of physical pain of which Tina speaks seems like a wholly negative and disrespectful thing to me... I say this, not least because a lot of the BBWs that come here are, initially at least, looking for acceptance... looking for an oasis of "*its ok to be you*" away from the mainstream "*be thinner*" message. To come to a place where the flipside to this is pushed as an ideal... i.e "*be fatter*" does nothing for size acceptance (slightly off topic... Sorry AM  ... and I realise that this kind of thing is the reason we have so many different forums).


I feel like this has been said a hundred times here - but mostly by women. To hear it from you means the world. Sad that the _bearer _of the message changes the meaning of it's delivery so much - but, it does. 

Thank you.


----------



## Tina

waldo said:


> Regarding the amputee fetish, I guess it is a bit more permanent to have a limb removed than to gain weight which theoretically can be lost. However, one should not forget the stretched out skin which sags down after a large weight loss and would require some surgery to remove. It also reminds me of reading a letter to the advice column in Penthouse from a guy who wanted his 30-something wife to have all her teeth pulled because of his fetish for having a toothless lover. Permanent but at least you can live a relatively normal life with dentures and nowadays with implants the dentures can be secured in place for a much better fit.


Two things.

First, I do tire of men who are constantly writing [somewhere] wanting to change their girlfriend's/wife's body. Full to the gills. Who do these pompous assholes think they are that they get to make that decision for the woman they supposedly love? Wonder how they would feel if she was actively looking for ways to make him have a bigger dick, because his is just not cutting it.  

Second, so many say or think, "oh they/I can just lose weight if they/I don't like it." If it was that easy, would you be fat in the first place? Most people do not want to be fat, especially early on, and do not usually instantaneously like being fat and marginalized in society. Many have to consciously come to self-acceptance and love.

So, you're stuck with a huge body that hurts all the time and doesn't move well. You figure you'll get WLS, but then that doesn't work either.

Waldo, your best-case scenario of needing surgery for loose skin (which is a very painful and difficult surgery to recover from) presupposes the person was even able to lose weight in the first place. Again, if that were so easy, Dimensions would be populated by mostly male feeders and fat admirers, because it doesn't take a researcher to see that many fat people -- even here -- either don't want to be fat at all, or want to be much less fat.

As someone who had to lose weight for health and mobility reasons, and who still has probably about maybe 50 lbs to go -- 50 lbs that have been not wanting to come off for over a year now in an almost 3-year effort, and without WLS -- I can tell you that when a body wants to be fat, it will find a way to hold on to it, body and mind. Or, in other words: it ain't that easy!


MisticalMisty said:


> Again, it's a person's responsibility to realize what is right and what is wrong for them. It's easy on the internet..STOP TALKING TO THE PERSON! I've done that on many occasions. As soon as they make me uncomfortable, they get a message telling them so and then I don't speak with them again.
> 
> One of the first questions I ask when a guy PMs me is what "is he." I'll ask if he's just an fa, or a feeder..etc. I want to know who I'm talking to. I know that if he's a feeder into weight gain, then he's not the guy for me. So he's told and we can continue to chat as friends or we can end communication.


Here's a scenario for you, Misty.

The guy in chat doesn't tell you he's a feeder. You hit it off great, end up meeting and you really like him a lot. He likes to take you out to dinner, and buys you flowers and candy regularly. You decide to move in together. As part of a quick and healthy breakfast before you each go to work, he whips you both up smoothies. You notice you're really gaining some weight, but you chalk it up to being happy and going out to dinner together -- being wined and dined. This guy is so good to you in many ways and you love him deeply. You remember your life before him, always complaining that you're tired of being alone and you want a mate and children -- a happy family.

Turns out he is a feeder, and not only that, but being sick and tired of all the fat women out there who do not want to get fatter, he picked one he was really attracted to and decided to take care of business himself, on the sly.

You've lost weight in the past and wanted to pretty much stay there, because, after all, even though you've sent such mixed messages on the board like, "It's been a lousy day! I need a feeder to buy me some food!!" you really don't want to gain.

You try to cut back a bit and start watching what you're eating more -- maybe not so much in an effort to lose weight, but just to stop gaining. Yet, you still continue to gain. You've pushed a number of red flags aside, because not only do you want to be loved -- long to be loved -- but you love this man in particular.

You become suspicious and start looking around and find some kind of weightgain powder, and figure he's been putting it into your morning smoothies on the sly and you're livid. You're also conflicted, because you adore him.

Now what?

Is this all your fault? You unwaveringly lay responsibility 100% on the women in these various scenarios, yet relationships are 50-50, and even when it appears that the man is maybe being manipulative or deceptive, it's always the woman who should be blamed. You seem to portray yourself as being so strong -- that you would never fall for it. I wonder if you're so invincible, Misty. And guess what? These scenarios are not just fiction. I wish for you that you never end up in such a situation, but you could.

And for all of you who want to jump all over me about this for 'painting all feeders as being evil," let me remind you of my past words about it, but also let me tell you that more times than I can count, though not so much as when we had the old board format, guys were looking for weight gain powders and ways to secretly fatten their spouses. You weren't here to see it? Can't help that, it went on with regular frequency.


----------



## MisticalMisty

Tina, I have respected you until this last post. I will not answer it because it's completely unfair of you to create a scenario and use things I've actually said on the board or things that have happened in my life.

Every feeder I've ever talked to knows up front that while I do enjoy being cooked for, taken out to dinner..etc..that I'm a foodee and not a feedee. I've made that declaration on this board several times.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Tina said:


> Here's a scenario for you, Misty.
> 
> The guy in chat doesn't tell you he's a feeder. You hit it off great, end up meeting and you really like him a lot. He likes to take you out to dinner, and buys you flowers and candy regularly. You decide to move in together. As part of a quick and healthy breakfast before you each go to work, he whips you both up smoothies. You notice you're really gaining some weight, but you chalk it up to being happy and going out to dinner together -- being wined and dined. This guy is so good to you in many ways and you love him deeply. You remember your life before him, always complaining that you're tired of being alone and you want a mate and children -- a happy family.
> 
> Turns out he is a feeder, and not only that, but being sick and tired of all the fat women out there who do not want to get fatter, he picked one he was really attracted to and decided to take care of business himself, on the sly.
> 
> You've lost weight in the past and wanted to pretty much stay there, because, after all, even though you've sent such mixed messages on the board like, "It's been a lousy day! I need a feeder to buy me some food!!" you really don't want to gain.
> 
> You try to cut back a bit and start watching what you're eating more -- maybe not so much in an effort to lose weight, but just to stop gaining. Yet, you still continue to gain. You've pushed a number of red flags aside, because not only do you want to be loved -- long to be loved -- but you love this man in particular.
> 
> You become suspicious and start looking around and find some kind of weightgain powder, and figure he's been putting it into your morning smoothies on the sly and you're livid. You're also conflicted, because you adore him.
> 
> Now what?
> 
> Is this all your fault? You unwaveringly lay responsibility 100% on the women in these various scenarios, yet relationships are 50-50, and even when it appears that the man is maybe being manipulative or deceptive, it's always the woman who should be blamed. You seem to portray yourself as being so strong -- that you would never fall for it. I wonder if you're so invincible, Misty. And guess what? These scenarios are not just fiction. I wish for you that you never end up in such a situation, but you could.
> 
> And for all of you who want to jump all over me about this for 'painting all feeders as being evil," let me remind you of my past words about it, but also let me tell you that more times than I can count, though not so much as when we had the old board format, guys were looking for weight gain powders and ways to secretly fatten their spouses. You weren't here to see it? Can't help that, it went on with regular frequency.



Heh. I've BEEN in a relationship similar to that. When I pulled the plug on the gaining he dumped me. I moped and wrote shitty goth poetry for months but I got over it. The key for me was that I HAD to lose weight if I wanted to keep working therfore the temptation to give in and let it be was not an option, especially since it wasn't a stretch for me to be completely accepting of the situation anyway. But the controlling aspect of his actions was what was intolerable. Like any person who gets into a relationship where a guy gets hooked on drugs or becomes abusive it can be very difficult if not impossible to escape. But short of placing all men in concentration camps the only solution is to try to educate women to be aware and watch for red flags.


----------



## James

Tina said:


> Hi James.
> 
> Yes and no. It is separate because I love my body independent of the pain, when it's just regular ol' pain. But when it gets to be too much, for too long, I'm not so thrilled with my body. So of course they are intrinsically tied on the one hand, but my journey to lovin' the fat was a separate issue.
> 
> I hope this makes sense; I just woke up.



Hi Tina, 

It totally makes sense  

my point was kinda more of a general one though...

What I'm alluding to is that the ultimate outcome of person getting very heavy ... or at least, heavier than is comfortable for that person to be (as you used to be) *is *physical pain and a loss of independance. That is not cool. Unless that is a person's specific kink of course... but in general it sucks balls... big time. If someone gets to that point through any other reason than their own free will then thats frikkin sad for them IMO... and if such a thing comes out of a desire to be loved/wanted then personally I think this is sadder still. Every time I read a post saying something along the lines of 'yay... you are 300 or 400lb... blah blah... cant wait till you are 500, 600 etc.' it re-enforces the "be fatter" message... and that messes with the importance of the "its ok to be you" message... especially amongst those who are not totally at a point of self-acceptance... 

ack... I dunno... and I'm rambling again... Like I say, feeders, feedees... fine... if that is your thing then do it... but if a person is a feeder, I really think its in everyone's interest for that person to be honest with themselves and their motivations... draw the line, be respectful, and accept that you cant make a girl a feedee... she's either into it or she isn't.


----------



## MisticalMisty

LillyBBBW said:


> Like any person who gets into a relationship where a guy gets hooked on drugs or becomes abusive it can be very difficult if not impossible to escape. But short of placing all men in concentration camps the only solution is to try to educate women to be aware and watch for red flags.



Exactly. It's true of any abusive relationship. 

I know myself well enough to know that I've lived many years alone. I have a career that I can depend on to support me. I have friends and family who love me. I don't NEED a man in my life to feel complete. Are there things that I want out of life and desire a man to help me with those..YES..but I will not be with an abusive or manipulative individual just because I'm lonely and I need a man.

Fuck that shit. 


Being true to myself is more important than any of the perks that come from being in a relationship.


----------



## Tina

MisticalMisty said:


> Tina, I have respected you until this last post. I will not answer it because it's completely unfair of you to create a scenario and use things I've actually said on the board or things that have happened in my life.
> 
> Every feeder I've ever talked to knows up front that while I do enjoy being cooked for, taken out to dinner..etc..that I'm a foodee and not a feedee. I've made that declaration on this board several times.


Misty, these are things you have written more times than I can count; not private things, or I _never_ would have posted them. Anyone who has read your posts for any length of time has seen them, and I'm not putting you down for them. My reason for doing it was to hope that you might be able to see it in a more personal way, rather than the detached, seemingly cold, way that you have been reacting. I'm telling no secrets, nor am I using your words _against you_. And I am not against you personally, but I think that you are refusing to see that these things can happen and that maybe it's not _always_ the woman's fault. If it happened to you in that way would it be YOUR fault? If you want to discount me for something like this, fine. But I honestly think it would be for reasons _other_ than me using two things you have repeated here multiple times because I am talking _to you_ about _your life_. That such an innocuous thing, not meant in any negative way, nor portrayed in any negative way, can get you so enraged does make me wonder.


----------



## Tina

LillyBBBW said:


> Heh. I've BEEN in a relationship similar to that. When I pulled the plug on the gaining he dumped me. I moped and wrote shitty goth poetry for months but I got over it. The key for me was that I HAD to lose weight if I wanted to keep working therfore the temptation to give in and let it be was not an option, especially since it wasn't a stretch for me to be completely accepting of the situation anyway. But the controlling aspect of his actions was what was intolerable. Like any person who gets into a relationship where a guy gets hooked on drugs or becomes abusive it can be very difficult if not impossible to escape. But short of placing all men in concentration camps the only solution is to try to educate women to be aware and watch for red flags.


Exactly. Red flags are there for a reason, but people do get deceived in relationships all the time. Does that mean it was your fault? I don't think so, Lilly. However, as a responsible person who loves herself, the thing to do would be to remove yourself, as you did, and as I would do, too. But it would undeniably be with no small measure of sadness and pain. Sorry that happened to you.


----------



## MisticalMisty

Tina said:


> My reason for doing it was to hope that you might be able to see it in a more personal way, rather than the detached, seemingly cold, way that you have been reacting. I'm telling no secrets, nor am I using your words _against you_. And I am not against you personally, but I think that you are refusing to see that these things can happen and that maybe it's not _always_ the woman's fault. If it happened to you in that way would it be YOUR fault? If you want to discount me for something like this, fine. But I honestly think it would be for reasons _other_ than me using two things you have repeated here multiple times because I am talking _to you_ about _your life_. That such an innocuous thing, not meant in any negative way, nor portrayed in any negative way, can get you so enraged does make me wonder.



If you reread my posts the only relationships I have even commented on are those that are CONSENSUAL. I'm not cold by any means. However, if a woman goes into a relationship knowing that she's with a feeder who wants her to gain, A LOT, then it's her responsibility to take care of herself. I'm not going to feel a large amount of pity for someone who WILLINGLY puts them self into a position that could ultimately be harmful for them.

My response to Ripley was about men she was talking to who she KNEW were feeders. In that instance, it's her responsibility to do what's right for her. She was in control of the situation if she was aware that she was chatting with feeders. All she had to do was hit the x or logout or put the user on ignore. 

I've never made any mention about the non-consensual side of things and that's why I thought your scenario to be unfair..and you insinuating that I'm cold and heartless is completely uncalled for because I am neither.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Tina said:


> Exactly. Red flags are there for a reason, but people do get deceived in relationships all the time. Does that mean it was your fault? I don't think so, Lilly. However, as a responsible person who loves herself, the thing to do would be to remove yourself, as you did, and as I would do, too. But it would undeniably be with no small measure of sadness and pain. Sorry that happened to you.



I agree an you are exactly right Tina however I need to clarify something for my own conscience. My story was a little different in that my boyfriend never encouraged me to gain. I was always in hyper diet mode because I had lost weight to get a role in and opera. Once I got the role I was killing myself trying to stay this artificial weight so that my costume didn't have to be altered. When the opera was over I went hog wild and over indulged for a summer, invovling him in my sinister plan to slap the skinny loving poplace soundly in the face. We were happier than flies in sh*t but when I came to my senses and tried to lose weight again my boyfriend, whom I had not been gatting along with during my bitchy obsessive diet/workaholic phase, did not want to go back to the way things were so he broke it off. I admit that he was more than happy to facilitate my wishes to gain, but he was not the sly sinister protagonist as implied earlier. The dieting was a part of why he dumped me but there was way more to it than just that.


----------



## Tina

MisticalMisty said:


> If you reread my posts the only relationships I have even commented on are those that are CONSENSUAL. I'm not cold by any means. However, if a woman goes into a relationship knowing that she's with a feeder who wants her to gain, A LOT, then it's her responsibility to take care of herself. I'm not going to feel a large amount of pity for someone who WILLINGLY puts them self into a position that could ultimately be harmful for them.
> 
> My response to Ripley was about men she was talking to who she KNEW were feeders. In that instance, it's her responsibility to do what's right for her. She was in control of the situation if she was aware that she was chatting with feeders. All she had to do was hit the x or logout or put the user on ignore.
> 
> I've never made any mention about the non-consensual side of things and that's why I thought your scenario to be unfair..and you insinuating that I'm cold and heartless is completely uncalled for because I am neither.


Okay, I hear you on this, and agree with you when it comes to knowing from the start and choosing to go along with it anyway. But I never said you are a cold and heartless person, did I? I said "_the detached, seemingly cold, way that you have been reacting_." Huge difference there. I certainly did not, and would not, characterize you that way.

Thing is, situations are not always cut and dried, and people do not always know they are, or even understand the implications of, hooking up with a feeder. Being in this community and seeing what those of us who have been here long term have seen, we're pretty hip to the situation, but not all are. I know you want a family, as do many, many people. This is not 'your' information, and I wasn't using this against you, but more to illustrate that the desire for love is one of the strongest drives we have. A person's desire for love and for a family can blind them and lead them to do many things they wouldn't normally. If love is blinding a person, they are still responsible for their behavior, but can they be 'blamed'? It happens every day, to both women _and_ men. Both women _and_ men deceive, too, and can be very good at it. My post to you didn't just have to do with your response to ripley, but the way it seems that you do not give an inch

Do we know that in all cases the person hooking up with a feeder really understood what that was. Relationships start in lots of places, not just venues like this, where we're hip to what can happen. You might not have made any mention of the non-consensual side, but others have and your reaction was the same. That is what made me wonder what your opinion would be, and if you would still blame the woman, if such a thing happened to you? Maybe it would give you a bit of empathy, that not everything is seen at first, and sometimes things unfold in ways you never would have expected. 

In life and relationships, if you don't know, you don't know. But once you do, it's up to the person to decide what they will choose. At that point, I think they deserve some compassion, not blame.


----------



## MisticalMisty

Tina said:


> You might not have made any mention of the non-consensual side, but others have and your reaction was the same. That is what made me wonder what your opinion would be, and if you would still blame the woman, if such a thing happened to you? Maybe it would give you a bit of empathy, that not everything is seen at first, and sometimes things unfold in ways you never would have expected.



I went back and reread the entire thread and all of my responses and I didn't see anywhere that I had responded to anyone who made mention of the non-consensual side. If I did..I missed it.

I would definitely put the blame on me if I were to ever be in a similar relationship. The last "relationship" I had was totally unhealthy for me and I allowed it to go on longer than it should have because I was stupid. Could he be to blame? Maybe..but the blame still falls 99.9% onto my hands for allowing myself to be exploring a relationship that was unhealthy for me. I know myself better than anyone and I have a responsibility to myself to do what's right for me...no one else knows what's good for me..only I do. 

Dating and relationships, the good and bad, are all learning experiences. There are things that I will never allow to happen again now that I've experienced them. However, I can't go into my next relationship believing that the new guy will be anything like the old guy. That's where my biggest cry of foul has come from.

There are extremes in any situation. There are times that we make choices that are bad for us and we have to face the consequences. However, we can't blame anyone but ourselves for the way our lives turn out. We can't make generalizations about an entire group of people when only a select few are the bad eggs. We can't automatically victimize all women that are in this lifestyle and demonize the men. I'm not saying that you are doing that Tina, I'm just making an observation based on what's been happening on this board.


----------



## Tina

LillyBBBW said:


> I agree an you are exactly right Tina however I need to clarify something for my own conscience. My story was a little different in that my boyfriend never encouraged me to gain. I was always in hyper diet mode because I had lost weight to get a role in and opera. Once I got the role I was killing myself trying to stay this artificial weight so that my costume didn't have to be altered. When the opera was over I went hog wild and over indulged for a summer, invovling him in my sinister plan to slap the skinny loving poplace soundly in the face. We were happier than flies in sh*t but when I came to my senses and tried to lose weight again my boyfriend, whom I had not been gatting along with during my bitchy obsessive diet/workaholic phase, did not want to go back to the way things were so he broke it off. I admit that he was more than happy to facilitate my wishes to gain, but he was not the sly sinister protagonist as implied earlier. The dieting was a part of why he dumped me but there was way more to it than just that.


I can understand that, Lilly. After a lifetime of either restricting our own eating off and on, or also maybe parents restricting our eating, damn it feels good to just cut loose, doesn't it? So I understand that he wasn't necessarily a negative kind of feeder who behaved in an ugly way to you, but an encourager, but he wanted, it seems, for you to continue to get bigger, or at least stay the same. Knowing that, you couldn't stay. I wouldn't be able to, either, because ultimately, our health is the most precious thing we have. Without it, nothing else can hold much meaning. This of course, excepts those with a terminal disease who have accepted their imminent death and who have undergone a spiritual transformation. We do what we have to do, and were I you, I would have likely done the same thing, right down to posting to clarify that it wasn't all his 'fault.'


----------



## Tina

MisticalMisty said:


> I went back and reread the entire thread and all of my responses and I didn't see anywhere that I had responded to anyone who made mention of the non-consensual side. If I did..I missed it.
> 
> I would definitely put the blame on me if I were to ever be in a similar relationship. The last "relationship" I had was totally unhealthy for me and I allowed it to go on longer than it should have because I was stupid. Could he be to blame? Maybe..but the blame still falls 99.9% onto my hands for allowing myself to be exploring a relationship that was unhealthy for me. I know myself better than anyone and I have a responsibility to myself to do what's right for me...no one else knows what's good for me..only I do.


Of course, and I do not deny that. But it was hard to do, right? And have you at times even wanted to go back because it IS so hard? That is not a sign of weakness, as you have been very strong in your life and in the things we have talked about. But it is human to want compassion and comfort, love and warmth, and sometimes, in the wee hours of the night, we might feel for a moment that we are willing to trade the right thing for the comforting thing -- or, I should say, the illusion of comfort. We all have those conflicts, I think, and the one thing that I did take from what you have posted here that is only specific to you was the whole "feeder, send me some food" thing. The reason why I brought that up as a mixed message is that things like that can be a comfort, too, right? After a lousy, rotten day, it's a lovely thought to have someone we care about to bring us something yummy that will soothe. But as someone who doesn't want a feeder, or to be a feedee, if some lurker reads it and is a chatter, maybe it's not so out of line for him to think you dig it. The rest of the scenario was general, though you do fit the whole wanting a mate and family, but so do many other people. That is not unique. It was never my intention to hurt you, Misty. It was never my intention to put you down, because I don't think you should be put down. It was more my intention to say, "Hey, why not allow that sometimes it's not the woman's fault. Sometimes things happen that are out of her control."


> Dating and relationships, the good and bad, are all learning experiences. There are things that I will never allow to happen again now that I've experienced them. However, I can't go into my next relationship believing that the new guy will be anything like the old guy. That's where my biggest cry of foul has come from.


I'm not saying it will be. Not only is it not up to me, but it's none of my business and I cannot see into your future. The scenario I wrote was written to show how sometimes we don't know what we're getting into, even when we are careful. We also don't always know those we love, too. Doesn't mean I'm paranoid or saying you should be, just that it happens. It's happened to me, and has happened to many other women and men -- non-feeder and non-feedee alike -- just average people.


> There are extremes in any situation. There are times that we make choices that are bad for us and we have to face the consequences. However, we can't blame anyone but ourselves for the way our lives turn out.


I think a person can, depending upon the situation, but in the short-term. Some people have been victimized and they should not be blamed or accused for what happened to them. But no matter if we were victims at one point in our lives, we do have to move on and take our own lives in our own hands and take charge. 


> We can't make generalizations about an entire group of people when only a select few are the bad eggs. We can't automatically victimize all women that are in this lifestyle and demonize the men. I'm not saying that you are doing that Tina, I'm just making an observation based on what's been happening on this board.


I agree. As I've said I've seen both genders screw over the other. And how often do you see these nice guys with some woman who is a raging bitch who doesn't appreciate him at all? It's unfair to paint one gender, one culture, one race, one group with the same brush. It will never hold true.

Again, Misty, I apologize if I have hurt you, and it seems I have. I also appreciate our conversation off-board. Please know I did not have bad intentions in what I have written.


----------



## Tina

I think I'm going to remove myself from these discussions. I've still been having difficulties from the surgery I had about a week and a half ago, which was my third in under six months. That, combined with some pretty overwhelming stress and some of the other health problems I've had might be affecting my judgement. I seem to have caused problems twice now within a week in ways that do not usually happen. I apologize to those I have offended.


----------



## LillyBBBW

I'm not sure how wide spread this particular issue is but in my travels I've heard stories of men also being manipualted by women who present themselves as something they're not. Some schmo who happens to be a pretty decent normal guy except for the fact that he is really turned on by wieght gain. He's mostly aware of the dangers and risks associated with gaining, not to mention the fantasy itself is about as far a leap from reality as you can get. 

Then some girl comes on to him about how she luuurves to eat and gain, she's got pictures, she talks the talk, etc. and she wants to run away with him and live fattilly ever after. The guy is eventually sucked in because he really 'wants' to believe. I've known guys who have sent money, they've been totally taken advantage of by a manipulative person who exploited his desires and left him heartbroken and embarassed to have been so easly taken despite numerous red flags. It happens. How often I don't know. I'm suspecting maybe a bit more often than anyone realizes because of the embarassment of a guy having to confess such a thing. 

I'm just bringing it up because it's there. It's not always about the poor woman being made victim by a bad feeder but the game can be played the other way as well. Everybody has to be careful.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Oh Tina, I'm sorry to see you go. I've really been appreciative of your input into this as it has given us all plenty to think about. If you must step back then by all means do so but I want you to know I've really enjoyed the things you've had to say. 

I would rep you but the system says I can't anymore.


----------



## AnnMarie

ripley said:


> One thing that really bothers me is that everyone is always saying that the feeders/feedees get "picked on" and can't we just let them be etc. etc....well, feeders never let ME be.
> 
> I'm quite comfortably into SSBBW territory. and yet it's _still_ never enough. If they are FAs (which I don't think they are) I've got more than enough F to A. There is something wrong when that is not enough; when I'm asked time and time again if I'm gaining or would be amenable to gaining. I'm not a person, I'm a balloon to be inflated.
> 
> Some girls are feedees and get off on it...I get that. More power to 'em, and I'll offer them all the sympathy I can muster when they post on the main board about being bedridden, are too big to fit in the ambulance, that their upkeep is ruining their husband's back and their marriage, they're in constant pain, and could someone please help?
> 
> A feeder told me, on first talking to me, that he'd marry me if I gained to 500. I was curious, and asked him if he could ever be happy in a relationship if the woman wasn't actively gaining, and he said no, that he couldn't be 100% happy. I don't think that's such a rare thing for a feeder. And to me it is WRONG. It puts a burden on any partner when the other partner's happiness depends on their altering their very being, in ways that, like it or not, are ultimately harmful.
> 
> You say let the feeders/feedees be, that it's consensual, that the participants are into it and know the risks...I say that maybe in a perfect world that's true. In the real world, there are exponentially more feeders than there are genuine feedees, and those feeders are so driven, so very very driven, that they actively recruit women to gain. Nine out of ten people who PM me in chat ask me if I'm gaining or would be amenable to gaining.
> 
> You know what the sad thing is? At one point I was tempted. I'm a very smart person, and I know my worth. I am lonely, though, and just looking at the odds of me finding a mate...they would increase tremendously if I would pretend to be a feedee. And if I could be tempted, so could other women. Couple the need for love and a mate with a SSBBW's natural inclination to creep up in weight...and you've got a volatile situation. Sure, he's not forcing her, controlling her, whatever...but it _is_ a situation that mentally is not healthy for the woman.
> 
> I think it's interesting the comparison Brenda (?) drew between those that are aroused by amputating their own limbs and feeders/feedees. I wonder if people think that's A-OK 'cause after all, they know they'll end up in a wheelchair or with a prosthesis, but hey, they'll have a boner doing it so it's all good?



I agree with you Ripley, and anyone that I may have been "defending" are NOT the guys you're talking about in your experience. I've never been involved in a feedee/feeder relationship, it's not something I'm into, but I have dated guys who have tendencies/fantasies (fine by me) and I never miss a meal, so it works out fine. I know feeders from both online and in person. None of the men that I would include in my "defense" are as you described at all. 

In an ideal world they'd be happy to see the gain, but even then it probably has limits not only in her mobility and happiness, but in pocketbook and upkeep. The men you described are manipulative, and to me that approach and badgering is NOT part of anything I include as consensual. 

Essentially, we're talking about very different men who fall under a similar header - but not the same guys. I think much of the point of those defending is that it's not an all or nothing issue, not all people interested in feeding are safe/sane/rational/consensual and not all people interested in feeding are manipulative/controlling/evil puppet masters. 

More often than not the really nice, simple guy who simply gets a certain amount of "rocks off" over a cute fat girl downing some cupcakes, or her jeans being too tight after a big meal, is lost in the murk and the mire of the "evil empire" of feeders, and because of that they're much less vocal, much less willing to share, and add another face to the issue (as Heather has attempted to do from the feedee side). They feel instantly like they'll be grouped in, and I'm glad we're all having this discussion. Maybe they'll be more likely to poke their heads out of the sand and say something to at least add another dimension.


----------



## AnnMarie

LillyBBBW said:


> I'm not sure how wide spread this particular issue is but in my travels I've heard stories of men also being manipualted by women who present themselves as something they're not. Some schmo who happens to be a pretty decent normal guy except for the fact that he is really turned on by wieght gain. He's mostly aware of the dangers and risks associated with gaining, not to mention the fantasy itself is about as far a leap from reality as you can get.
> 
> Then some girl comes on to him about how she luuurves to eat and gain, she's got pictures, she talks the talk, etc. and she wants to run away with him and live fattilly ever after. The guy is eventually sucked in because he really 'wants' to believe. I've known guys who have sent money, they've been totally taken advantage of by a manipulative person who exploited his desires and left him heartbroken and embarassed to have been so easly taken despite numerous red flags. It happens. How often I don't know. I'm suspecting maybe a bit more often than anyone realizes because of the embarassment of a guy having to confess such a thing.
> 
> I'm just bringing it up because it's there. It's not always about the poor woman being made victim by a bad feeder but the game can be played the other way as well. Everybody has to be careful.



It happens ALLL the time!!!!!

And that's all I've got to say about that.


----------



## like em big

A con artist needs no particular gender. Male or female can be truthful or not.


----------



## ripley

MisticalMisty said:


> Again, it's a person's responsibility to realize what is right and what is wrong for them. It's easy on the internet..STOP TALKING TO THE PERSON! I've done that on many occasions. As soon as they make me uncomfortable, they get a message telling them so and then I don't speak with them again.
> 
> One of the first questions I ask when a guy PMs me is what "is he." I'll ask if he's just an fa, or a feeder..etc. I want to know who I'm talking to. I know that if he's a feeder into weight gain, then he's not the guy for me. So he's told and we can continue to chat as friends or we can end communication.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pretending to be anything you are not is deceitful, no matter if you're talking about being a feedee or not. I've been lonely too. It can be hard, but you can't allow yourself to change to find some man. It's not worth it and eventually the relationship will implode anyways because it's been built on lies.
> 
> Again, the temptation is a personal responsibility. Do I feel sorry for the girls waldo mentioned? somewhat, but they are adults and have to do what's right for them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just ignore them. Unless they have approached you in real life, hit the delete or ignore button. It really IS that simple.
> 
> Feeders are just like FA's just like members of the opposite sex when dating. The bad apples spoil the bunch. Not every feeder is some manipulative asshole looking to fatten his woman at all cost. Not every FA is some creepy dude that only wants to date your fat..Not every man/woman is a jerk/bitch. Do they exist? Yes..but it's unfair to generalize and stereotype the entire group based on the actions of a select few.
> 
> I'm sorry you've had bad experiences Ripley, I really am and I more than understand the loneliness of being a ssbbw. You just have to fight to stay true to who you are no matter who you come in contact with.




I DO ignore them, quit talking to them, let them know right away that I don't intentionally gain. I'm not "stereotyping the entire group based on the actions of a select few." What I am saying is that PERSONALLY, every feeder I've come into contact with on a one-to-one basis is obsessed. They literally cannot see past the feeder drive. They are in love with their fetish, and that makes the other partner just a vehicle for it's expression, not as an equal partner, respected and loved. What I see with my own eyes is that a feeding fetish is one of the most driven I have ever encountered. I don't know if it's our society (that of SA/Dims) that allows it to flourish but in magnitude it dwarfs something like a shoe fetish in drive every day of the week. 









Tina said:


> I think I'm going to remove myself from these discussions. I've still been having difficulties from the surgery I had about a week and a half ago, which was my third in under six months. That, combined with some pretty overwhelming stress and some of the other health problems I've had might be affecting my judgment. I seem to have caused problems twice now within a week in ways that do not usually happen. I apologize to those I have offended.




This makes me sad but I understand it. Having had a high weight and mobility issues makes your posts have a lot of truth and immediacy to them. I hope you feel better soon, T. 






AnnMarie said:


> I agree with you Ripley, and anyone that I may have been "defending" are NOT the guys you're talking about in your experience. I've never been involved in a feedee/feeder relationship, it's not something I'm into, but I have dated guys who have tendencies/fantasies (fine by me) and I never miss a meal, so it works out fine. I know feeders from both online and in person. None of the men that I would include in my "defense" are as you described at all.
> 
> In an ideal world they'd be happy to see the gain, but even then it probably has limits not only in her mobility and happiness, but in pocketbook and upkeep. The men you described are manipulative, and to me that approach and badgering is NOT part of anything I include as consensual.
> 
> Essentially, we're talking about very different men who fall under a similar header - but not the same guys. I think much of the point of those defending is that it's not an all or nothing issue, not all people interested in feeding are safe/sane/rational/consensual and not all people interested in feeding are manipulative/controlling/evil puppet masters.
> 
> More often than not the really nice, simple guy who simply gets a certain amount of "rocks off" over a cute fat girl downing some cupcakes, or her jeans being too tight after a big meal, is lost in the murk and the mire of the "evil empire" of feeders, and because of that they're much less vocal, much less willing to share, and add another face to the issue (as Heather has attempted to do from the feedee side). They feel instantly like they'll be grouped in, and I'm glad we're all having this discussion. Maybe they'll be more likely to poke their heads out of the sand and say something to at least add another dimension.




I talked to a guy that liked it when I'd talk about eating, and who always gave me the sad face if I'd talk about dieting. That, to me, does not make him a feeder. In fact, he's always told me that if I wanted to lose he'd help me (he's an exercise/weight lifter type) but I'm always the one who never follows through with it, lol.

That's the difference, though. A guy who'd say "I'll help you lose if that's what you really want" and one who takes it as a personal affront if you want to lose, and that your relationship would hinge on it.


Heather has very eloquently told us her side and given a "face" to a willing feedee. The thing is...I think there are tons of nervous/situational feedees that get into that lifestyle for whatever reason _that is NOT being a true feedee_. We could say "tough shit, you're an adult, it's your own fault" but that's not exactly true, and I personally don't want to be that hard and lacking in compassion. What happens to that feedee? When their marriage and the love of their partner hinges on living that fantasy in all it's day to day pain and drudgery? What if they have kids? Are they expected to help shoulder the burden of a parent that has compromised mobility? It is very, very, very rarely just a consensual thing that two adults do. It's a vortex that sucks in anything in it's orbit.


----------



## alienlanes

AnnMarie said:


> Essentially, we're talking about very different men who fall under a similar header - but not the same guys. I think much of the point of those defending is that it's not an all or nothing issue, not all people interested in feeding are safe/sane/rational/consensual and not all people interested in feeding are manipulative/controlling/evil puppet masters.
> 
> More often than not the really nice, simple guy who simply gets a certain amount of "rocks off" over a cute fat girl downing some cupcakes, or her jeans being too tight after a big meal, is lost in the murk and the mire of the "evil empire" of feeders, and because of that they're much less vocal, much less willing to share, and add another face to the issue (as Heather has attempted to do from the feedee side). They feel instantly like they'll be grouped in, and I'm glad we're all having this discussion. Maybe they'll be more likely to poke their heads out of the sand and say something to at least add another dimension.



Thanks, AM. This is exactly what I wanted to say. From the stories Tina and Ripley have been telling, it sounds like there are more real-life "toxic feeders" than I would have expected, and yeah, the anonymity of the Internet lets men to unleash their inner creep in a consequence-free environment. But I suspect, because I'm part of it, that there's a "silent majority" of guys with WG fantasies who would _never_ force, manipulate or trick someone into gaining without their full, informed consent. Not because we're super moral or super special, but because we're normal, decent human beings who recognize the differences between fantasy and reality and between the bedroom and the rest of the house. 

I could be wrong about this -- I'm a) new to the community, and b) not female, so I don't have the range of experiences that a lot of you do. But I bet there are a lot of guys who enjoy seeing their partner eat or roleplaying "ooh, I'm so full," but would never deliberately make them gain, any more than the average BDSM enthusiast would actually, non-consensually torture someone.

And yeah, FWIW, as a recent de-lurker I do feel very nervous about being open with my fantasies, especially using an account in which I've previously posted information about my real life identity. I'm trying to get over my own shame and self-hatred about having these fantasies, and feeling like I'm being lumped in with the proverbial manipulative control freak doesn't help  

This may not be their intention, but I get the impression that a lot of the "anti-feeder" posters in this thread are skeptical about whether any guy with a WG fetish can truly control his desires -- and yeah, I'm hurt by that.

"What if he's the perfect man, _except_ he's secretly feeding you?" Maybe I'm naive, but I just don't think that many guys are that kind of hardcore sociopath. If he's such a slave to his sexual urges, he probably doesn't have his shit together in the rest of his life either. Again, I don't have personal experience of this, but I suspect that Lilly's right about the average online feeder creep being either a deeply frustrated married guy or an undateable loser bachelor. 

We regular joes need to speak up more, I guess


----------



## Fuzzy

This feeder is keeping his head down in the foxhole


----------



## lemmink

I keep coming to this thread, starting a post, and then quitting in the middle when RL intervenes. Hopefully I'll actually manage to complete my post at some point...

There's so many different degrees of feederism that it's v. hard to argue cogently for one side or the other. If you say "Feederism is great!" someone is going to say, "Yes, but some feeders make people immobile/leave them/use them..." If you say "Feederism is bad," someone else will say, "My husband's a feeder but doesn't want me to gain much, maybe just a few pounds, and I'm a feeder and find it really exciting and sexually fulfilling" or "I'm a feeder and my girlfriend and I play out feeder games but we aren't really into weight gain, just the idea of it."

I think it might be easier to just say, "emotionally degrading/abusive/manipulative relationships are bad", and that this is true where it applies to any relationship - feeder, bdsm, vanilla, whatever - as a kind of disclaimer before addressing any feeder-specific elements of those relationships.



Chimpi said:


> I believe that many Feeders, and Feeders mind you, have no desire to experience or "help" another person gain weight. I believe a person that has a desire for food, and/or a desire to see someone eat food, in a purely sexual standpoint, may want nothing to do with gaining weight. I'm not sure how large in numbers (no pun intended) those people are in this world, but I'm not going to really delve into that either.



I guess I shouldn't say it's really "odd" that the thread seems to have mainly concentrated on the extreme side of feederism. However, I'm with Chimpi in that feederism doesn't technically have anything to do with having someone else gain weight. All the feeders I've met IRL - most of whom, I'm pretty sure, had no idea that that's what they were, and that there was an actual word for it - weren't into weight gain. They just got their rocks off cooking for women, watching women eat, feeding women. I'm almost certain that feeders like that are in the vast majority. Very few feeders/feedees seem to be into immobility as a reality. I don't know how many people are lying about their desire, but that's just how I've seen it. 



MisticalMisty said:


> I think what really saddens me the most is that people immediately assume that the woman is a victim...oh she has to be a victim. How sad is it when we believe our gender to be unable to make decisions such as these?



Both men and women stay in abusive relationships - of any kind - even when they see all the warning signs, even when they're suffering physical/mental pain/abuse, even when everyoen around them is telling them to get out. They do it for many reasons - they're in love, they're scared of being alone, they're scared of losing their lifestyle, they're scared of their partner, they're in denial that there's a problem, they're worried about their children, etc, etc. 

If someone feels trapped and powerless within a feeder/feedee relationship, whatever their gender, I'd call them a victim. It might have been their own naivete that got them into the situation, but that doesn't make them any less of a victim. People may play along in a role and then suddenly discover that things have gone too far and that now they can't get out - they have no trustworthy support group available to help them, emotionally or physically. Not all people are strong-willed in those kind of situations, and not all people even know what the 'danger signs' are. 

As other people have said, I don't think it's very hard to believe that this kind of thing could happen to someone. That said, I think it doesn't happen that often - that kind of abusive relationship is so rare compared to the number of feeders that aren't into that extreme.





Eh. To contextualise this post I should add that I'm a feeder, female, and in a feeder/feedee relationship with someone who's only doing it because he likes the attention. I'd guess he's a situational feedee, which is a different lil' issue again. I don't think there's a terrible problem with playing up to your partner's fantasies, though, within reason.

Also, I swear to god, when I started this post I was actually contributing something new to it... but writing this between RL stuff has taken about six hours. :doh:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Tina said:


> I think I'm going to remove myself from these discussions. I've still been having difficulties from the surgery I had about a week and a half ago, which was my third in under six months. That, combined with some pretty overwhelming stress and some of the other health problems I've had might be affecting my judgement. I seem to have caused problems twice now within a week in ways that do not usually happen. I apologize to those I have offended.



If you are to "blame" for this open discussion, which has been productive and much needed IMO, then it seems like a good thing to me. 

and thanks to AM for making the thread

One more thing to add myself, I keep remembering that loving feeder couple I saw on the Ablow show a few months back. They actually seemed very happy and were a good example IMO for those of us that don't really understand otherwise. They, and the nice men I have talked to online, are the "bright spots" in my mind about feederism. As in all things, good examples help to bring balance.


----------



## Totmacher

Darn it! There's no way in heck I'm gonna be able to wade through all these posts and say something sarcastic now!


----------



## SocialbFly

i am going to present an opposite opinion to some expressed here...first of all, let me say one thing....while i really do support free will, we need to talk about it a little....

first of all, this is a general response, there will be some ppl who will say, hey, this is some of what i posted, but it is not in general about you, but you gave me something to think about....ok. so that being said, i hope you will look at this as i am...

first of all, i am a fat woman already, i am 6 ft tall and weigh in somewhere around 460...that being said, my fat never bothered me when i was younger, now here i am 47 and crap...my body is screaming at me to weigh less...i think that is one thing that i think the younger women who are feeders need to realize, that while you are young your body handles things better, i have always been big and strong..but lately, oh for around the past 4 years or so, my body has been very upset and i am trying to listen to it...

yes, i am against Forced feederism....but erotic weight gain is something that is a personal choice (although not one i am into), but to say it is without problems is just a falicy...i am going to compare it to smoking cigarettes, you like to smoke (well, i dont so no screaming about that) you know it isnt good for you, you know it can kill you, or make your life shorter, but you do it anyway....that is how i view erotic weight gain.

that is my opinion to fat, i make a choice every time i put food into my mouth to stay this way...i know if i get on the treadmill (like one of my friends does) or if i get out my walking sticks and continue to watch what i am eating, i will at least maybe lose a little so my back or knees quit whining...i always said when the fat affected me, i would try to lose some of it...but here i am...

so what am i trying to say...

fat is not without its own issues, NO i am not presuming you stupid or that you dont already know that, but i can tell you as a nurse, that if you are ever truly sick, that your care WILL be altered due to your size, and depending on what is wrong with you, you may die simply because you are fat. yes, we choose to live life as a fat person, i dont mind being big and strong, but i hate walking slower at work, i hate limping when i first stand up because my knees hurt, i hate that after i work a HARD 12 hour shift that it takes two days for me to recover....i could go on and on..

why am i telling you this? would i have listened or read this when i was younger, i am not sure...but i know that my fat never bothered me when i was under 40, i was active as heck, biked, did my yard/house stuff, had three big dogs, yada yada yada....

now i am 47 and my back hurts and my knees hurt, i will probably die from a stomach bleed related to all the ibuprofen i take...

sexy isnt it?? hot isnt it??

the 16 year old that i watched die cause he was tooo fat to get a heart transplant sucked...it hurt like hell to watch him die, he was a kind and funny kid...did he deserve to die just cause he was fat?? no, but he did...do i see my beautiful fat nieces every time i think about J??? you bet, they are both that size and god forbid if they ever got a bad cardiomyopathy or something it would be devastating...hot isnt it???

i am not saying you should not do what you want...it is your choice, but to think there is no repercussions is not accurate, no matter if it is a willing choice or not...your young healthy body might just be that right now, but did you notice how many FEWER really fat chicks there are in my age group....

do you think that is just because we want to look good in our swim suits?? no, i promise you, i dont give a fuck about that, but ask me, do i want to be able to walk a couple of miles (even several blocks!), do i want to watch my nieces have kids and do i want to be able to stand and hold them for as long as needed, you bet...

i dont give a rats ass what society thinks anymore (or at least one heck of a lot less than when i was younger), that is one of the blessings of age, but one of the curses of age is a wisdom to understand what is happening in our lives, in our bodies...

that is called reality...and yes, sometimes it sucks.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Fuzzy, your avatar is scary.



Fuzzy said:


> This feeder is keeping his head down in the foxhole


----------



## LillyBBBW

SocialbFly said:


> i am going to present an opposite opinion to some expressed here...first of all, let me say one thing....while i really do support free will, we need to talk about it a little....
> 
> first of all, this is a general response, there will be some ppl who will say, hey, this is some of what i posted, but it is not in general about you, but you gave me something to think about....ok. so that being said, i hope you will look at this as i am...
> 
> first of all, i am a fat woman already, i am 6 ft tall and weigh in somewhere around 460...that being said, my fat never bothered me when i was younger, now here i am 47 and crap...my body is screaming at me to weigh less...i think that is one thing that i think the younger women who are feeders need to realize, that while you are young your body handles things better, i have always been big and strong..but lately, oh for around the past 4 years or so, my body has been very upset and i am trying to listen to it...
> 
> yes, i am against Forced feederism....but erotic weight gain is something that is a personal choice (although not one i am into), but to say it is without problems is just a falicy...i am going to compare it to smoking cigarettes, you like to smoke (well, i dont so no screaming about that) you know it isnt good for you, you know it can kill you, or make your life shorter, but you do it anyway....that is how i view erotic weight gain.
> 
> that is my opinion to fat, i make a choice every time i put food into my mouth to stay this way...i know if i get on the treadmill (like one of my friends does) or if i get out my walking sticks and continue to watch what i am eating, i will at least maybe lose a little so my back or knees quit whining...i always said when the fat affected me, i would try to lose some of it...but here i am...
> 
> so what am i trying to say...
> 
> fat is not without its own issues, NO i am not presuming you stupid or that you dont already know that, but i can tell you as a nurse, that if you are ever truly sick, that your care WILL be altered due to your size, and depending on what is wrong with you, you may die simply because you are fat. yes, we choose to live life as a fat person, i dont mind being big and strong, but i hate walking slower at work, i hate limping when i first stand up because my knees hurt, i hate that after i work a HARD 12 hour shift that it takes two days for me to recover....i could go on and on..
> 
> why am i telling you this? would i have listened or read this when i was younger, i am not sure...but i know that my fat never bothered me when i was under 40, i was active as heck, biked, did my yard/house stuff, had three big dogs, yada yada yada....
> 
> now i am 47 and my back hurts and my knees hurt, i will probably die from a stomach bleed related to all the ibuprofen i take...
> 
> sexy isnt it?? hot isnt it??
> 
> the 16 year old that i watched die cause he was tooo fat to get a heart transplant sucked...it hurt like hell to watch him die, he was a kind and funny kid...did he deserve to die just cause he was fat?? no, but he did...do i see my beautiful fat nieces every time i think about J??? you bet, they are both that size and god forbid if they ever got a bad cardiomyopathy or something it would be devastating...hot isnt it???
> 
> i am not saying you should not do what you want...it is your choice, but to think there is no repercussions is not accurate, no matter if it is a willing choice or not...your young healthy body might just be that right now, but did you notice how many FEWER really fat chicks there are in my age group....
> 
> do you think that is just because we want to look good in our swim suits?? no, i promise you, i dont give a fuck about that, but ask me, do i want to be able to walk a couple of miles (even several blocks!), do i want to watch my nieces have kids and do i want to be able to stand and hold them for as long as needed, you bet...
> 
> i dont give a rats ass what society thinks anymore (or at least one heck of a lot less than when i was younger), that is one of the blessings of age, but one of the curses of age is a wisdom to understand what is happening in our lives, in our bodies...
> 
> that is called reality...and yes, sometimes it sucks.



This is complicated by a larger issue. Once you get to a point where your weight causes you physical pain, exercise is no longer of benefit to you. Exercise such as walking, etc. merely adds more stress to the situation and can sometimes make you worse. You feel so much better if you lie down for a couple of days, then the pain goes away and you can walk again, only for the pain to return and you need another few days off your feet, then you gain more and it's worse and then you're bedridden. You would hope that through this rollercoaster of exercise and injury you can manage to lose weight but sometimes that is not the case. Some get worse before they get better and then it's too late. This I understand from personal experience.

Sports Rehabilitation Specialists always advise against exercise for someone in that position. They will immediately start a person on a weight training regimine. That means going to the gym or the physical therapists office and being worked on machines designed to strengthen muscles. This works. I've seen it, I've lived it. The NFL players you see weighing at 315 pounds and getting horrendous beatings night after night and coming back from injuries time after time live by this mantra. The problem is, once a person reaches a certain weight they may not feel comfortable or even physically able to go to a gym or a personal trainer. I've had difficulty even using such machines because these machines are designed for a person up to 280 pounds sometimes, and the ergonomics won't accomodate a person at 415.

Also these same NFL players suffer serious repercussions from their football days as they get older. Many of them are nearly crippled with arthritus and other regular joint aches sustained from the brutal existence they enjoyed in their professional career. Many have permanent issues with their heart as well and exist on pain killers, surgeries and cortizone shots. 

Anyone who believes that a person with the bug to play for the NFL is not fully aware of all of this is misinformed. You can be as passionate as you like and show them the plight of an aged former player and be left scratching your head wondering why they're suiting up and running past you to the playing field as if they just don't get it. The thing is, people like this already know the potential consequences for their actions. I know that many of you who know of which you speak are well meaning but it will make very little difference to someone who is overwhelmed with a desire they can't ignore.


----------



## roundbird

BRAVO! BRAVO! BRAVO! Yes you said it very well.


----------



## LJ Rock

Choices and consequences thats really what it comes down to, doesnt it? Its like they used to tell us back in high school; we have the reasoning power to make whatever decisions we feel is in our best interest at the moment, but in the end we are the ones who will have to deal with the repercussions of our actions. 

The notion of dealing with something after it has become a problem seems like a problem in and of itself. It seems to me that in regards to health issues, it is often to late to rectify a problem once it starts manifesting itself into visible or tangible physical ailments. Hearing someone say When my health starts suffering because of my weight, I will deal with it then, sort of reminds me of a drug addict or alcoholic who says things like I like to get high, but I dont have a problem or I can stop anytime I want to. Often these people dont realize the severity of there situation until it has already had a negative impact on their lives and the lives of those around them, and by that time they are so emotionally and/or physically addicted to their lifestyle choices and behaviors that it really is too late to make a change (at least not without great effort and hardship.) 

Old habits are hard to break, especially as it applies to something as personal and essential as the food we put into our bodies. For many of us, our questionable eating habits started very young. Going out for a pizza or burger was a treat, and getting candy and snacks were rewards for doing well in school or finishing a household chore. And maybe still for some of us, food was a form of escapism or a coping mechanism. Like a drug, we would steal away and eat in private as a means of shutting out all of the pain, fear and other bad feelings in the world. We learn to associate food with certain feelings, and continually use food to try and recapture those feelings, often to little or no avail. Thus, a pattern develops similar that of the drug addict or alcoholic, where we are constantly consuming more and more of what we desire trying to reach an unreachable high, never quite getting there. 

What is truly fascinating is that for some of us here, our minds have found a way to sexualize this behavior. I mean, what is the real the difference between someone with some kind of overeating disorder and someone who is practicing feederism? Certainly there can be many variances in the severity to which these actions are carried out (i.e., the couple who playfully feeds each other spoonfuls of pudding as opposed to the person who single-handedly and compulsively devours everything in site.) But it would seem to me that it is primarily the eroticized reaction to such behavior that makes the difference. What for some is a horrifying and uncontrollable scourge on their lives, the seemingly endless pattern of overeating and gaining weight, for others still is a joyous and sexually thrilling experience. 

Maybe this is all just a matter of perspective. After all, the entire size acceptance movement is based around defying the societal norms of what a healthy and normal body looks like. Maybe to some degree, feederism and intentional weight gain is an extension of this concept; going beyond a mere acceptance of fat and embracing a LOVE for fat and the behaviors that allow us to become fat. (I suspect there will be many officials in the size acceptance movement who would take exception to such a statement, confirming my ideas that there is a vast difference between the notions of fat-acceptance and fat-admiration. But I digress.)

Another fascinating aspect that has come to my attention from reading these posts: what is it exactly that makes some people feeders and others feedees. Weve exhausted the discussion about typical predatory abusive males and female victims in my opinion (while this may be true in some cases, I dont believe it to be the norm.) What is fascinating to me is how for some people their love of fat manifests itself in their own self-image, and for others it is mainly relegated to the admiration of fat in others. I thought of this when reading HeatherBBWs post where she talked about growing up and wondering what it was like to be fat and get fatter, wearing big clothes and stuffing them to look bigger (what we commonly refer to as padding around here.) I used to do and think about these same things as a kid as well; I think a lot of FAs used to do this. What makes us all do it exactly? Who really knows but what I am curios to know: where was the splitting point that made someone like her say I want to be fat and someone like me say, I want to have a fat girlfriend?

Granted, I was never really an overweight child. I went through some fluctuation in my weight growing up, as all children do. There were times in early childhood and into puberty where I went from being fairly average in size to slightly chubby and by my teens I was downright skinny! It hasnt been until much more recently that my weight has really started to creep up on me, and I am somewhat concerned about it. Maybe if I had been heavier growing up, my sexualized perception of fat and weight gain would have been more internalized and applied to myself, as opposed to being aroused by the weight gain of my female peers. 

That is to say, maybe instead of being an FA/feeder looking at BBW, I would have become the BHM/feedee looking for a FFA to fatten me up even more! lol Who can really say for sure? All I do know is that I do derive a lot of pleasure from eating and from being fed, as well as seeing others eating and being fed and gaining weight. I dont know why exactly, I didnt ask for it it is something Ive always been aware of my whole life, and I dont see it changing anytime soon. But maybe, just maybe, I need to start thinking about making the effort to change at least a little bit. At least to the point where I am not allowing my fantasies and erotic desires to control me and to affect the way I live my life, but rather I am in control of them and can keep it all in check. 

I think that for nearly all of us, we like to feel like it is one of our basic and inalienable rights to choose what we want to eat and how much we want to eat. Exercising this control is one of the few things we have in life that is our and ours alone, and no one can really tell us otherwise. Sure, maybe deep down we know it isnt right to eat a whole pizza in one sitting, or an entire bag of chips or whatever. Maybe we know that we need to eat more leafy green vegetables and whole grains and less meats or processed and fried foods, and that we should get out and get some fresh air and regular physical activity. But it is our decision to choose to do otherwise, for better or for worse, and we must deal with whatever consequences follow as a result of those choices.

Lastly, I just want to reiterate that my posts in this thread are in no way intended to be condemning or judgmental in any way. Like I said before, I am not trying to cast any stones or ruin anyones fun, Im just trying to keep it real. Also, while I tried to go through and read a lot of the posts in this thread, I was unable to read them all. So if there is anything I have written here that is any way redundant or has been previously addressed, I apologize.


----------



## LillyBBBW

A normal person thinks:
"My God, I'm crippled for life! I'll never walk again, I'll be on medication for the rest of my life, I'll never have children. Oh the humanity! How could I have let this happen to myself. If only I had known...... "​
A feedee thinks:
"Oh my God, I'm crippled. It's finally happend. My career is over. I'm never going to reach my goal. " ( Withdraws quietly into the shadows connected to an oxygen pump, staring down at an old photo of themself at their peak weight and caressing the image lovingly ) "Maybe if I'd gone a little slower...."​
Your anxiety about them not grasping the concept is wasted.


----------



## SamanthaNY

And what does the feeder in that scenario think?


----------



## LJ Rock

LillyBBBW said:


> This is complicated by a larger issue. Once you get to a point where your weight causes you physical pain, exercise is no longer of benefit to you. Exercise such as walking, etc. merely adds more stress to the situation and can sometimes make you worse. You feel so much better if you lie down for a couple of days, then the pain goes away and you can walk again, only for the pain to return and you need another few days off your feet, then you gain more and it's worse and then you're bedridden. You would hope that through this rollercoaster of exercise and injury you can manage to lose weight but sometimes that is not the case. Some get worse before they get better and then it's too late. This I understand from personal experience.
> 
> Sports Rehabilitation Specialists always advise against exercise for someone in that position. They will immediately start a person on a weight training regimine. That means going to the gym or the physical therapists office and being worked on machines designed to strengthen muscles. This works. I've seen it, I've lived it. The NFL players you see weighing at 315 pounds and getting horrendous beatings night after night and coming back from injuries time after time live by this mantra. The problem is, once a person reaches a certain weight they may not feel comfortable or even physically able to go to a gym or a personal trainer. I've had difficulty even using such machines because these machines are designed for a person up to 280 pounds sometimes, and the ergonomics won't accomodate a person at 415.
> 
> Also these same NFL players suffer serious repercussions from their football days as they get older. Many of them are nearly crippled with arthritus and other regular joint aches sustained from the brutal existence they enjoyed in their professional career. Many have permanent issues with their heart as well and exist on pain killers, surgeries and cortizone shots.



I don't think I have ever heard this put into such clear-as-day terms before, the difficulties of physical exercize at high weights. It really is a serious issue that desreves some attention! 



LillyBBBW said:


> Anyone who believes that a person with the bug to play for the NFL is not fully aware of all of this is misinformed. You can be as passionate as you like and show them the plight of an aged former player and be left scratching your head wondering why they're suiting up and running past you to the playing field as if they just don't get it. The thing is, people like this already know the potential consequences for their actions. I know that many of you who know of which you speak are well meaning but it will make very little difference to someone who is overwhelmed with a desire they can't ignore.



Bottom line in regards to the feederism debate; if you don't get it now you *never will!* Nothing I can say will "win you over" or make you understand how strong an affect the feeder-fantasy has on me. Either you're into it or you're not. For better or worse, it is a very real and very strong desire we all have, and it doesn't just "go away" because we want it to or because someone tells us it's "wrong." Nothing that anyone can say on either side of the fence will change anyone's mind about anything, because it is such a real and intimate thing.

I am still blown away after all these years of coming here that I have actully found this community on line of people who have the same kinds of thoughts and desires I have had all my life. When I think about it, it is really quite a phenomenon! When I think of all the years I really felt like I was the only person on earth who had erotic fantasies about weight gain... man, I think I'm gonna cry! lol 

Seriously though, I don't expect anyone to understand this "kink" or "fetish" or whatever you want to call it. And no, you don't have to like it either. But we're *not* all a bunch of nut-jobs and freaks. And yes, as Lilly said, we are all quite aware of the risks and consequences, and we all need to deal with those individually in our own ways. Despite all the differences there are among us so-called feeder and feedees, I think the one common thing we are all sort of looking for here at Dims is a place where we can talk about these things and not feel judged or persecuted for being different. Just be ourselves, and find some tollerance and acceptance. Is that so bad?


----------



## LillyBBBW

He's making sure the pump is working, the meds are up to date and there's no chocolate pudding in the house.


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## LillyBBBW

LillyBBBW said:


> He's making sure the pump is working, the meds are up to date and there's no chocolate pudding in the house.



LOL!! Actually I'd like to change my response to, "I dunno, who cares?"  Nine times out of ten a feeder isn't even in the picture anyway. Usually if a feedee even HAS a mate to begin with, by the time the illness has occured the feedee has lost her mate through divorce anyway because he was horrified by what she was doing to herself and got out a long time ago. Anyone who stays, feeder or not, is checking the pumps.


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## SamanthaNY

LJ Rock said:


> Bottom line in regards to the feederism debate; if you don't get it now you *never will!* Nothing I can say will "win you over" or make you understand how strong an affect the feeder-fantasy has on me. Either you're into it or you're not.
> 
> 
> I think the one common thing we are all sort of looking for here at Dims is a place where we can talk about these things and not feel judged or persecuted for being different. Just be ourselves, and find some tollerance and acceptance. Is that so bad?


The thing is, Dim is not a _declared _feederism website (I think?) - and there are bunches of people here who aren't into it and don't understand it (as you've said). Yes, you're right - we should all feel we can post without being judged and persecuted, but... those non-feeder/ee folks (and I'm one) will comment and question. Even when done constructively, that can be seen as negative. Sure there's going to be snarky comments too - but there is about almost everything. Unless and until there's a 'feederism only - hands off' portion of the site, I think that's how it's going to be here.

Or, is that what there should be - a 'hands-off' board where certain issues can be discussed without challenge? Is that what the feeders/ees really want? And is that something that should be provided? I think some people feel that's what the weight board already is... to my knowledge, that's not the case.

I'm not saying I have the answer to any of this - I don't want people to feel uncomfortable, but as an outsider of sorts to this topic, I still like to feel I can become involved in the discussion if I wish to.


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## LJ Rock

SamanthaNY said:


> The thing is, Dim is not a _declared _feederism website (I think?) - and there are bunches of people here who aren't into it and don't understand it (as you've said). Yes, you're right - we should all feel we can post without being judged and persecuted, but... those non-feeder/ee folks (and I'm one) will comment and question. Even when done constructively, that can be seen as negative. Sure there's going to be snarky comments too - but there is about almost everything. Unless and until there's a 'feederism only - hands off' portion of the site, I think that's how it's going to be here.
> 
> Or, is that what there should be - a 'hands-off' board where certain issues can be discussed without challenge? Is that what the feeders/ees really want? And is that something that should be provided? I think some people feel that's what the weight board already is... to my knowledge, that's not the case.
> 
> I'm not saying I have the answer to any of this - I don't want people to feel uncomfortable, but as an outsider of sorts to this topic, I still like to feel I can become involved in the discussion if I wish to.




Its always been my impression that the Weight Board was just a place discuss erotic weight related topics (fat admiration specifically in regards to BBWs and not BHMs, this is what the BHM board is for... I think. lol) This is something related to but seperate from "feederism" which is something very different (revolving around intentional "feeding" or stuffing/overeating and weight gain.) 

I don't know that there is any real amicable solution to make everyone happy, Samantha. I think that overall the system is working pretty good the way it is... especially when compared to the way things were on the old board, where everyone just kind of congregated around the weight board because thats where all the action was, and chaos and violence would typically ensue! (remember how bad it was? lol) Now, I think it's for the most part understood that The Weight Board is a place where you can post a thread about feederism if you want to, and those who are interested can check it out, and those who are not can steer clear (of that particular thread.) 

I think this particular thread is cool because its a chance for all of us (feeder and non-feeder alike) to kind of explore and discuss these issues, and maybe all become a little more aware of things. Like I said, we're really not going to make any "conversions" or any such thing.... either you get it or you dont, either you're into it or you're not. But its a chance for those who aren't into it to maybe understand on a slightly deeper level what it's really all about, and for those who are into it to maybe have a little bit of a deeper awareness of themselves and the roots of their desires.


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## imfree

WOW, LJ and Lilly, I'm right in there with you! Too many well-meaning people have told me I could go off oxygen if I would lose weight.
I make sure the oxygen equipment is operating properly and fight my diabetes tooth-and-nail with U-500 insulin.


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## alienlanes

LJ Rock said:


> Another fascinating aspect that has come to my attention from reading these posts: what is it exactly that makes some people feeders and others feedees. Weve exhausted the discussion about typical predatory abusive males and female victims in my opinion (while this may be true in some cases, I dont believe it to be the norm.) What is fascinating to me is how for some people their love of fat manifests itself in their own self-image, and for others it is mainly relegated to the admiration of fat in others. I thought of this when reading HeatherBBWs post where she talked about growing up and wondering what it was like to be fat and get fatter, wearing big clothes and stuffing them to look bigger (what we commonly refer to as padding around here.) I used to do and think about these same things as a kid as well; I think a lot of FAs used to do this. What makes us all do it exactly? Who really knows but what I am curios to know: where was the splitting point that made someone like her say I want to be fat and someone like me say, I want to have a fat girlfriend?



That's a very good question; I'd imagine the answer is different for everyone. In the case of people who were fat as children, it seems plausible that a subconscious desire to turn the tables on bullies -- "the other kids say I'm fat? _I'll_ show them fat!" -- could develop into a sexualized WG fetish.

But I think you're really on to something with the suggestion that when a child associates food, fat and eating with positive emotions, these associations will cohere during adolescence into a specific sexual preference. (I knew that I liked being around fat people, and had crushes on the fat girls in my grade school classes, long before I had any idea what "sex" was ) 

My own preferences seem to have arranged themselves in a descending hierarchy of importance. I'm an FA first and foremost -- before anything else, it takes a supersized partner to turn me on. If my partner wanted to gain, that would be icing on the cake, and if she wanted to "mentor" me in my own gaining, that would be... um... sprinkles on the icing? 

In my case, at least, the process doesn't work in reverse. The idea of a feeder/feedee relationship with an FFA who's smaller than I am leaves me totally cold.

Who knows why? We can speculate forever (at least _I_ can ) about what it was in our personal histories that made us this way, but what's really important is that we learn to accept ourselves and deal with our desires in a healthy and responsible way.


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## alienlanes

SamanthaNY said:


> I'm not saying I have the answer to any of this - I don't want people to feel uncomfortable, but as an outsider of sorts to this topic, I still like to feel I can become involved in the discussion if I wish to.



As long as they're civil, I have no problem discussing feederism with the people here who aren't into it -- I've learned a lot from Tina and Ripley's posts. All I'd ask is that they respect the fact that some people genuinely do have WG fantasies and appreciate having a safe space to talk about them.


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## Russ2d

Hmmm, my thoughts on Feederism?

I think it's an obvious component for most FAs in one form (and degree) or another. A woman eating to maintain her fat or increase her fat with all the myriad interactions that a man might be involved in from encouragement to force feeding and any and all fantasies with it.

"Feeding" is so demonized now that many FAs and fat women into it wont even touch the subject. Our culture is now one of hypersensitivity and offense. Everyone's offended now and the fat community is no exception, unfortunately.

As far as general judgements about "Feederism" it is completely between the man and woman involved and none of any else's damn business.

As far as sharing fantasies and experiences with this board (the WEIGHTGAIN board) goes... Pfffft forget it.


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## LillyBBBW

I don't relate much to Heather's experience of stuffing my clothes and trying to make myself look bigger. I was naturally over developed as a kid and had boobs in the third grade. Hormones naturally made me bigger and heavier than other kids my age. It was humiliating and embarrassing. I endure the scolding and constant put downs and for a while I even tried to change or hide things so that I could be more accepted. Secretly though, I would spend hours in the mirror admiring myself with my clothes off checking for changes and such. I had a measuring tape my Nana gave me for sewing and I kept records of my growth. I had super wide hips and took pleasure in hipping the boys in school from their seats and knocking them to the floor. Yeah, I was very popular.  I had older brothers and we would all compete to see who could finish their food first. If you ate too slow, they'd steal from your plate which I hated. I got bigger and that's just the way it was. I went through on and off phases where I loved my size, then was embarrassed by it, then loved it again, etc. Pretty much the same as now. I can only describe it as a feeling of sensually erotic empowerment to be a growing girl. I love it but I'm embarrassed by it as well. An odd combo.

As for being a feedee, it's like having a mansion. It's a WAY too expensive way to live. Somebody has to do the hunting around here and I have to work for a living. Plus I don't like the feeling of being helpless and weak. I'm turned on by the thought of taking up a whole bed and being lovingly cared for, I envision it a lot but I'm not sure I really want that. I long for the feel of it but I know I wouldn't want to live that way for long. Eventually I'd want to get up and finish up my artistic project or implement some more changes in the landscape project I have going in my yard. Even in an ideal situation where you have a person devoted to caring for you and whatnot, it is contingent on weather or not THAT person stays healthy. If they ever get sick and need care or should suddenly become incapacitated you're both screwed. For me it's best in the abstract and I'm fine with it.


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## alienlanes

LillyBBBW said:


> As for being a feedee, it's like having a mansion. It's a WAY too expensive way to live. Somebody has to do the hunting around here and I have to work for a living. Plus I don't like the feeling of being helpless and weak. I'm turned on by the thought of taking up a whole bed and being lovingly cared for, I envision it a lot but I'm not sure I really want that. I long for the feel of it but I know I wouldn't want to live that way for long. Eventually I'd want to get up and finish up my artistic project or implement some more changes in the landscape project I have going in my yard. Even in an ideal situation where you have a person devoted to caring for you and whatnot, it is contingent on weather or not THAT person stays healthy. If they ever get sick and need care or should suddenly become incapacitated you're both screwed. For me it's best in the abstract and I'm fine with it.



I love that "mansion" metaphor! I think you're right, too, that in real life, even disregarding health and hygiene issues, lying in bed all day being pampered would start to get boring after a while.

(Although I have to admit that your mention of "artistic projects" made me imagine being the feeder/amanuensis to a brilliant writer who works out of her bed. That would be sort of amazing :smitten:.)


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## Miss Vickie

Lilly, thank you for your articulate, thoughtful posts on this subject. It's really helped me understand what is appealing about weight gain. Thank you.


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## LillyBBBW

SlackerFA said:


> (Although I have to admit that your mention of "artistic projects" made me imagine being the feeder/amanuensis to a brilliant writer who works out of her bed. That would be sort of amazing :smitten:.)



_"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SlackerFA again."​_
Are you coming on to me?


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## alienlanes

LillyBBBW said:


> _"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SlackerFA again."​_
> Are you coming on to me?



Hey, the division of labor is the necessary foundation for great art... you write the novel and I'll bake the cupcakes.


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## LillyBBBW

SlackerFA said:


> Hey, the division of labor is the necessary foundation for great art... you write the novel and I'll bake the cupcakes.



*roflmao* I am roaring here.  Who needs a Nor'easter when I can knock the roof off of the house from laughing.  

Thanks for that image.


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## alienlanes

LillyBBBW said:


> *roflmao* I am roaring here.  Who needs a Nor'easter when I can knock the roof off of the house from laughing.
> 
> Thanks for that image.



Thanks, Lilly  

Now if I could find a lemon meringue recipe that would pump the floodwater out of my basement, I'd _really_ be set.


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## bigplaidpants

<swings hips side to side to get a thought in edge-wise>

As a FA who's also had fantasies about feeding/growing (which my body won't let me really do).....I can't wait to get a chance to really read this thread. 

.....pfff. Then I can put my .02 when everyone's lost interest.

<says under breath> friggin boxes.


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## JillyBee

Here's an interview that a friend showed me a while back. It had an enormous influence on the way I think about being fat and having admirers that want me to gain.... 

I never met LillyBeth (she died in a car crash some time ago) but I think I'd have really liked her. Did anybody here know her? 

Jilly
================

1Q. How has being a BBW affected your life?
I'm not quite sure I know yet what it means to ``be`` a BBW. I was a skinny kid and a barely-plump ten year old. As an adolescent I was miserable because I was hungry, and unpopular because I was miserable. It's only when I rejected the my mother's obsession with thinness and came to live in Paris that I stopped being miserable. Some people are drawn to me now because I'm ``big`` (actually, I'm short and fat), but I hope that folks can see through the fat, and find the real LilyBeth beautiful too.

2Q. Have you ever gone on a diet? Many BBW's diet to "gain back" the favour of society.
I have never voluntarily *gone* on a reducing diet. But I spent most of my puberty and adolescence being *sent* on such diets by my mother. The message she and her friends had for me was that food was dangerous to a girl as short as me, and that I would get too fat if I (and they) didn't watch every mouthful I took. I bought into the idea, so too many of my waking hours between the ages of 11 and 16 were spent feeling ravenously hungry, and miserable; occasionally smuggling food into my room and feeling guilty about it. In retrospect I realize that it was only my father's support at that time that kept me from becoming another casualty of one or another kind of diet madness.

I've become happy enough with myself and my life in the last five years that I can take what favour is offered and ignore abuse and ridicule. I find it easy to make friends with nice people and I have the emotional, intellectual, and material resources not to need any of the other kind. I'm lucky. 

3Q. Lily Beth's life before moving to Paris.
An idyllic childhood in and around Cambridge, Mass. where my father works. My dad is a clever yet beautifully serene person, from whom I've learned a lot. My mother's father had been a rabbinical scholar before leaving Europe, and I remember his part in my growing up with great warmth. The cataclysms of the 30s and 40s had put paid to his religious belief, but in his own quiet way he gave me a secular ethical foundation which has lasted to this day. 

My twin sister was born a few minutes before me, and was tiny and very weak. She died within two weeks of our birth and I don't think my mother has ever recovered from the pain of her death. When I was a child she was so rarely happy that I can almost remember the times I saw her smile for more than a moment. But until I was nearly eleven we had a nice straightforward (if not particularly warm) relationship. Then calamity descended -- in the form of puppyfat! The oppression started almost the moment the hormones began to flow. Careful, LB, you'll get fat if you eat that. No chips for LB, she'll get too fat. No dessert for LB, thanks. 

In short, LB's every mouthful was monitored. I was changing shape, and that proved the dangers of food as far as my mother was concerned. Now I see that from puberty 'til I was nearly 16 she was an anorexic-by-proxy, and the proxy was me! My dad's reasons for not stopping the madness immediately? I don't exactly know, but I believe they are rooted in his compassion for her continuing grief. I almost believed her myself, and did my best -- most of the time -- to keep food at bay, despite the misery her project was causing me. This was *my* act of compassion for her: perhaps even an act of contrition for having been the twin who survived!

Looked at only from the perspective of food/dieting/mother it might seem that this period was completely without joy for me; but it wasn't. I discovered that I was as clever as I'd always been told I was going to be. I discovered that I could find some happiness in my room with books. I discovered literature and history (and, amazingly, mathematics). I also began to discover that I had a self, and by the age of 17 I knew that I had to leave home as soon as I could if my self was not going to be extinguished. 

My first year in college (in Amherst) was not an unqualified success, but at least I was able to control my own food. I don't want to dwell on this year, but the essence of the story is that I started to eat, and the tension with my mother increased as I gained weight (barely 25lbs). To cut a long story short, my Grandfather died the day before my 18th birthday, and left me the wherewithal to leave my mother's orbit completely. Two long papers, and what the English call ``the old-boy network`` (one of my father's ``chers collegues``) got me a place in school in Paris the following year. 

4.Q. Lily Beth's life into willing weight gaining!
LB. 19 years old. Fluent enough in French to find an apartment and to order dinner, but not fluent enough to
understand the subtleties of French prehistory, or anthropology as taught by an elderly Prof. with a strong Alsace accent. Crowded lectures. Making friends slowly -- my very presence seems to polarise discussions sometimes. The French are ambivalent about us: some of them hate what they call our cultural imperialism, others find McDonalds smart! Eeek!

My apartment is 25 metres from a restaurant, Chez JC, where I eat a few times in the first week. French food is a revelation! They care about textures and flavours and the assemblage of dishes and of meals. I'm tempted to go further afield, but I begin to develop a warm relationship with the ``patron``, Jean-Christophe -- a man of about the same age as my dad whose wife died the year before. He tells me that he loves the look on my face when I eat his food. I'm scarcely aware of it at the time, but I know I always have a lot of fun when I eat there. By the end of the first month J-C and I are the best of friends, and I'm eating there two or three times a week. J-C tells me that he has a small proposition to make to me: he wants to become more adventurous in his cooking, and needs a friendly critic. He'll cook for me every evening, if I agree to give him an honest opinion of all his new dishes.

So he brings me new dishes to try out each day, and sometimes we work through several versions of a dish to find the combinations that work. Of course he is what I suppose I'd now recognise as a ''feeder'', but I am having so much fun with his food, and enjoying my changing shape so much, that I really don't pay any attention to the idea that what is being tried out is not his dishes, but my appetites.

As my friendship with J-C develops I discover many things about myself that have been hidden or suppressed. My love of the smells and tastes of food, my delight in becoming fatter, my astonishment at the amount of food I can eat, and my discovery of the intense sensual pleasure I get from eating and drinking. I am finding and nurturing the self that my mother suppressed in all sorts of ways. Sometimes I think that on these pages we focus on our fat-ness at the expense of other aspects of our being. Yes, it's what brought us here, but for me it's just a part of my real life.

5.Q. Lily Beth and food.
What can I say? I love to eat good food. I'm very lucky that I'm living in one of the gastronomic centres of the world! My father worries that I am an unhappily compulsive eater. I have spoken to people who describe themselves as compulsive eaters, but NEVER have they described their feelings about eating as happy: indeed it seems that they are usually miserable when they begin or end (what they call) a binge. For me the opposite is true: when I'm anticipating eating I get the kind of electric tingling that I imagine comes when one is about to meet a new lover..... a kind of joyful anticipation. While I'm eating I can easily abandon myself to the sheer sensual pleasures of the food, and the delightful feelings of my tummy beginning to swell in a way that I can't quite control. And when I've finished eating I love the way my tummy moves almost independently of the rest of me. As I've gotten bigger, I've enjoyed this last part more and more. 

6.Q. Lily Beth and love.
Sensual love? Romantic love? Passionate love? Filial love? Fraternal love? I've had lovers, and I have close friends whom I love. I'm slowly getting used to the idea that for some men my shape, and my enthusiasm for food, makes me very desirable. But for the moment, the idea of a close friend is more important to me than the idea of a passionate or romantic lover. I suppose that's because there's nobody in my sights right now. I'll probably give you a different answer if you ask me in six months time.

7Q. Lily Beth and clothing.
The less I speak of this the better. I try to look smart, but I'm 5'1'' tall and weigh around 330lbs. Mine is not a shape for which fashion gurus itch to design, and this leaves me with a problem which money on its own can't really solve -- especially while I stay in Europe. Most of the time I wear stuff which my dad sends from Boston. I've recenty found some large-size catalogues on the Web, so maybe I'll be able to branch out a little. I have a larger friend in England who has recently given me some of the nicer clothes she's outgrown, and I'm waiting for her seamstress to shorten them for me. 

8 Q. Being a BBW in Europe...
I've not really been fat anywhere else for any length of time, so I've nothing to compare it to properly. There are fewer really fat people here than I see when I'm in the US. Here I look and feel extraordinary, in the US I'm just another fat girl. 

9Q. What was the greatest emotion of your whole life?
That's a secret.

10Q. Who's a person you'll always have to thank?
My father, for keeping me sane despite my mother's madness. My friend Jean-Christophe, who taught me the sensual pleasures of food.

11Q Please, tell us about yourself: fears, hopes, beliefs...
My fear: that my mother and I will be estranged for ever. 
Personal hopes: a published novel, children (eventually).
Other hopes: an end to war and oppression, an end to poverty, help for people who need help and help from people who can give help.

12Q. Lily Beth and Paris..
It's a gas! I live the life of a dilettante-in-exile at the moment -- writing when I can, seeing friends, talking, galleries, plays, dinners! It won't last -- and I'd be stupidly unrealistic if I expected it to.

13Q. How would you define your spare time? Something boring, something exciting, something personal? How do you spend it?
I have no spare time!


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## alienlanes

JillyBee said:


> Here's an interview that a friend showed me a while back. It had an enormous influence on the way I think about being fat and having admirers that want me to gain....
> 
> I never met LillyBeth (she died in a car crash some time ago) but I think I'd have really liked her. Did anybody here know her?



Wow, that's amazing.

I never knew LilyBeth. I wish I had.


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## MisticalMisty

LJ Rock said:


> *Seriously though, I don't expect anyone to understand this "kink" or "fetish" or whatever you want to call it. And no, you don't have to like it either. But we're not all a bunch of nut-jobs and freaks.* And yes, as Lilly said, we are all quite aware of the risks and consequences, and we all need to deal with those individually in our own ways. Despite all the differences there are among us so-called feeder and feedees, I think the one common thing we are all sort of looking for here at Dims is a place where we can talk about these things and not feel judged or persecuted for being different. Just be ourselves, and find some tollerance and acceptance. Is that so bad?



AMEN! You don't have to like it..you don't even have to PRETEND to like it..but what's going on in someone else's house is really no one's business.

You're right. Even though a lot of people don't care for it, feederism is a part of this community. It will continue to be and an open mind or a willingness to stay out of the threads will help things along. You would think..a group that is judged so often and faces so many stereotypes wouldn't be so quick to judge other people.

You would think.


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## Waxwing

Far from being a bunch of nutjobs and freaks, I think that the majority of people here are caring, intelligent, bitchin' people. I hang out on the Weight Board because I find the discussions here so interesting. 

If I ever seem like I'm being closed-minded, kick me in the shins.

Also, that interview above is SO great! What a neat person.


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## Jack Skellington

MisticalMisty said:


> AMEN! You don't have to like it..you don't even have to PRETEND to like it..but what's going on in someone else's house is really no one's business.



If someone is abusing their spouse or partner, it is a crime. Whether you are caught or not, it's still breaking the law.


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## SocialbFly

I too have to say thank you for some of your wonderful posts...i think it is easy to see how some of us end up where we are...

the only thing i have to add is this...i think americans are more guilty of this than any other population...we always think it wont happen to us...i can gain weight, it wont happen to me, i can play football, it wont happen to me, i can smoke, it wont happen to me..you get the picture, but unfortunately, it does happen often...

some people would say my mobility problems are more related to me working in intensive care for 26 years, and of course, i only want to work in really jumping ones (damn adrenaline junkie)...so which came first, the chicken or the egg, doesn't matter, my weight is an issue...

to all of you who shared your comments without turning feral, i appreciate it, and it gave me something to think about....


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## MisticalMisty

Jack Skellington said:


> If someone is abusing their spouse or partner, it is a crime. Whether you are caught or not, it's still breaking the law.



You can't always assume that someone is being abused.

I'm loud when I have sex..Very loud.....I also like some BDSM...so that makes me even louder..lol..and things are crashing around sometimes..it can get very...well exciting....and on top of that..I bruise easily...I'm not being abused...well..I am willingly..but what happens in my bedroom is my business.

Now, if I'm in public..lol..feel free to watch or whatever


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## Waxwing

Jack Skellington said:


> If someone is abusing their spouse or partner, it is a crime. Whether you are caught or not, it's still breaking the law.


 
That's not actually the case, if the person in question has expressed (either explicitly or implicitly in some cases) consent. 

The issue is one of "Informed Consent", that is, if the person receiving the "abuse" has *"given consent based upon a full appreciation and understanding of the facts and implications of any actions, with the individual being in possession of all his faculties, and his judgment not being impaired at the time of consenting."* 

The parameters of this are fairly well understood, and while it is used most commonly to determine the legality of medical procedures, it's also used in conjunction with sex or sex-related play. 

In the event of actually injury, for instance in a BDSM relationship, there is some question in certain jurisdictions about what constitutes consent, and there are a few cases pending in the UK about this very issue. 

But by and large, if you consent to an activity, and are an adult of sound mind, unimpaired by drugs or alcohol, the activity is lawful. 

It may, to you, be totally unethical. But ethics and legality aren't always the same thing.


----------



## Jack Skellington

MisticalMisty said:


> but what happens in my bedroom is my business.




A person abusing their partner in public, their house, bed room, garage, basement, living room, etc. is still abuse.


----------



## MisticalMisty

Jack Skellington said:


> A person abusing their partner in public, their house, bed room, garage, basement, living room, etc. is still abuse.



No one is disagreeing with you on that fact. What we are saying is that you don't know when someone is really being abused...or if it's part of "play."


----------



## AnnMarie

I just want to take a minute to thank every single person who's contributed to this thread in a rational, balanced, and sincere manner. 

I really believe that we could have more conversations of this nature on these boards if we go into them with the right attitude and a basic respect of everyone's right to express themselves and be heard, even if that doesn't equal agreement. 

Please continue, but I just wanted to thank you. I had a lot of fear in starting the discussion, and I'm very happy to say I'm impressed by all of you.


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist

MisticalMisty said:


> No one is disagreeing with you on that fact. What we are saying is that you don't know when someone is really being abused...or if it's part of "play."



So here's a question: If you suspect someone is being abused, do you think it's better to not get police involvement because it might be consensual sexual activity?


----------



## Jack Skellington

Waxwing said:


> That's not actually the case, if the person in question has expressed (either explicitly or implicitly in some cases) consent.



The morals and ethics of S&M or "rough sex" aside, I find it hard to believe actually beating your partner is legal. Any a-hole could get away with beating the piss out of their wife with that kind of loop hole. 

Abusing a person because they hate themselves enough to take it or is too scared to speak up it doesn't make it right. It makes you a sick pathetic piece of shit for doing it.


----------



## Jack Skellington

MisticalMisty said:


> No one is disagreeing with you on that fact. What we are saying is that you don't know when someone is really being abused...or if it's part of "play."



Making someone immobile goes beyond play and into causing them harm.


----------



## Waxwing

Jack Skellington said:


> A person abusing their partner in public, their house, bed room, garage, basement, living room, etc. is still abuse.



In a lot of situations I agree with you, but that's an emotional and moral judgment, not a legal one. We may think that what two people engage in is just awful, but that doesn't make it illegal. 

The fact remains that if an act is agreed upon by both parties, our own moral or ethical problems with it are moot. 

I know I just posted it, but seriously this is the crux of the matter:



> Informed consent is a legal condition whereby a person can be said to have given consent based upon a full appreciation and understanding of the facts and implications of any actions, with the individual being in possession of all of his faculties (not mentally retarded or mentally ill), and his judgment not being impaired at the time of consenting.


----------



## MisticalMisty

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> So here's a question: If you suspect someone is being abused, do you think it's better to not get police involvement because it might be consensual sexual activity?



I would approach the person I thought was being abused. I would think that you could tell by their actions and body language if they were in fact being abused even if they were denying it.

I'm sure that..for example, it was my upstairs neighbor, if it got to be too much, I'd call the police anyways..


----------



## MisticalMisty

Jack Skellington said:


> Making someone immobile goes beyond play and into causing them harm.



If I'm consenting..it's my right to be made immobile.


I think a lot of people are getting caught up in the whole immobility debate. I wonder what the actual numbers are for feederism that has actually lead to immobility.


----------



## Jack Skellington

MisticalMisty said:


> If I'm consenting..it's my right to be made immobile.



Again, abuse is not a right or an alternate lifestyle. People don't have the right to abuse their partner whether they or willing or not.



Jack Skellington said:


> Abusing a person because they hate themselves enough to take it or is too scared to speak up it doesn't make it right. It makes you a sick pathetic piece of shit for doing it.


----------



## AnnMarie

Not sure if I posted my thank you a few moments too soon. 

There are tons of things that are painful in life that we choose to do anyway... tattoos, piercings??? I'm bleeding and hurt, but I asked for it and paid to have it done. Is that abuse?? It's injured me, it's hurt me, I might cry during it, I will bruise and scab... is the practitioner an abuser?

It's not up to anyone to decide, except in the eyes of the law... no, all is fine. I consented and requested that treatment. If they walked up to me on the street and did it without my consent, I could put them in jail. 

I think we all get this, and belaboring the point over what one views abuse and another views play seems nitpicky at this point in the thread. We all know that we don't see eye to eye on consent - one person's abuse is another person's fun Friday night.

(That was not said as a mod, but as a participant.)


----------



## MisticalMisty

Jack Skellington said:


> Again, abuse is not a right or an alternate lifestyle. People don't have the right to abuse their partner whether they or willing or not.



Well..your opinion is that it's abuse...doesn't make you right..but you're allowed to have your opinion..just as I am.


----------



## Waxwing

MisticalMisty said:


> If I'm consenting..it's my right to be made immobile.


 

You distilled into one sentence what I was writing a novel trying to say.  

I notice that what's going on is that people are approaching this issue with their emotions, which is totally understandable but won't necessarily lead us to any end point in the argument. I think that infantilism is horrible and gross and sick. Really. But I would never say that someone shouldn't be able to engage in it. That's none of my business. 

And if you're not insane and you to practice a sexual kink that I find fucking weird, that's also none of my business. 

Re actual abusive situations-- you can call the police, and in fact i would encourage it if you really think that someone is being harmed. If they are, they still have to press charges in order for it to legally go forward (I'm assuming both parties are adults). It isn't as though the police will arrest someone they think is abusive if both people say that it's consensual rough sex. 

Misty, I wonder as well how much immobility actually comes into play. It seems like that's a particularly extreme example of an already fringe fetish, so it's probably not too common.


----------



## MisticalMisty

AnnMarie said:


> Not sure if I posted my thank you a few moments too soon.
> 
> There are tons of things that are painful in life that we choose to do anyway... tattoos, piercings??? I'm bleeding and hurt, but I asked for it and paid to have it done. Is that abuse?? It's injured me, it's hurt me, I might cry during it, I will bruise and scab... is the practitioner an abuser?
> 
> It's not up to anyone to decide, except in the eyes of the law... no, all is fine. I consented and requested that treatment. If they walked up to me on the street and did it without my consent, I could put them in jail.
> 
> I think we all get this, and belaboring the point over what one views abuse and another views play seems nitpicky at this point in the thread. We all know that we don't see eye to eye on consent - one person's abuse is another person's fun Friday night.



I agree. No tattoos or piercings for me though


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist

MisticalMisty said:


> I would approach the person I thought was being abused. I would think that you could tell by their actions and body language if they were in fact being abused even if they were denying it.
> 
> I'm sure that..for example, it was my upstairs neighbor, if it got to be too much, I'd call the police anyways..



Fair enough.



MisticalMisty said:


> If I'm consenting..it's my right to be made immobile.
> 
> 
> I think a lot of people are getting caught up in the whole immobility debate. I wonder what the actual numbers are for feederism that has actually lead to immobility.



*I think you're right there.* For those whom immobility is a goal though, it raises some important questions:

Now that these people are disabled and cannot work to support themselves, are they entitled to government benefits?

When someone's behavior becomes harmful in the other extreme, like in anorexia nervosa, they are hospitalized. 

Why is being so fat you can't walk more sane than starving to the point where you can't stand without fainting? 

Should someone who wants their body altered to the point of self-harm be considered mentally ill?

If my boyfriend helps me starve to death, he gets in HUGE trouble. That's considered abuse. Again, why is it different if a guy feeds a woman who some would deem as mentally ill to the point where she is incapable of self-care?


----------



## Waxwing

AnnMarie said:


> Not sure if I posted my thank you a few moments too soon.
> 
> There are tons of things that are painful in life that we choose to do anyway... tattoos, piercings??? I'm bleeding and hurt, but I asked for it and paid to have it done. Is that abuse?? It's injured me, it's hurt me, I might cry during it, I will bruise and scab... is the practitioner an abuser?



This is a really good point. I've paid people hundreds and hundreds of dollards to shove ink under my skin with needles to make pictures. I mean, if you think about it, GROSS!


----------



## Jack Skellington

AnnMarie said:


> I consented and requested that treatment.



So if a guy that gets off on beating the piss out of women finds a woman that hates herself enough to seek out abusers, that's fine and dandy when he beats her? I say no.

There might be a legal fine line in abusing your partner but there is damn well not an ethical one in my opinion.


----------



## Jack Skellington

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> If my boyfriend helps me starve to death, he gets in HUGE trouble. That's considered abuse. Again, why is it different if a guy feeds a woman who some would deem as mentally ill to the point where she is incapable of self-care?



Exactly. It's the same and it's still abuse.


----------



## MisticalMisty

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> 
> 
> *I think you're right there.* For those whom immobility is a goal though, it raises some important questions:
> 
> Now that these people are disabled and cannot work to support themselves, are they entitled to government benefits?
> 
> When someone's behavior becomes harmful in the other extreme, like in anorexia nervosa, they are hospitalized.
> 
> Why is being so fat you can't walk more sane than starving to the point where you can't stand without fainting?
> 
> Should someone who wants their body altered to the point of self-harm be considered mentally ill?
> 
> *If my boyfriend helps me starve to death, he gets in HUGE trouble. That's considered abuse. Again, why is it different if a guy feeds a woman who some would deem as mentally ill to the point where she is incapable of self-care?*



You've brought up some really interesting points. The one I bolded is the one I have questions. How can anyone prove that he enabled you to be anorexic? How would anyone be able to prove that a guy was the cause of massive weight gain in a woman?

Unless there was documentation that the feedee was being force feed, I can't really see how someone would be able to prove that the guy actually caused the weight gain. We all eat.. there are millions of fat people that over indulge on a daily basis, how could one prove that another person was responsible for me getting fat?


----------



## Waxwing

He wouldn't get in trouble legally for helping someone starve, though it would be a horrible thing to do. I'm glad that TSL brought up the connections between the two scenarios. I find that really interesting.


----------



## AnnMarie

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Now that these people are disabled and cannot work to support themselves, are they entitled to government benefits?
> 
> When someone's behavior becomes harmful in the other extreme, like in anorexia nervosa, they are hospitalized.
> 
> Why is being so fat you can't walk more sane than starving to the point where you can't stand without fainting?
> 
> Should someone who wants their body altered to the point of self-harm be considered mentally ill?
> 
> If my boyfriend helps me starve to death, he gets in HUGE trouble. That's considered abuse. Again, why is it different if a guy feeds a woman who some would deem as mentally ill to the point where she is incapable of self-care?



I think these are excellent questions, especially in terms of government services. 

It's also a slippery slope... if I didn't force myself to get fat, but chose to lead my life as a fat person and someday was disabled as an effect of something related, am I also denied? I'm sure some would say yes... it's your fault. 

I'm not arguing, to be clear, I just think it's an interesting train of thought, and could lead in a lot of very weird/scary directions for the "naturally" fat among us. 

I suppose bottom line though, is that disabled is disabled, no matter how it happened... I don't think someone suffering from meth mouth and on the skids has any trouble getting assistance if they're playing the game and jumping through the bureaucratic hoops.


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist

MisticalMisty said:


> You've brought up some really interesting points. The one I bolded is the one I have questions. How can anyone prove that he enabled you to be anorexic? How would anyone be able to prove that a guy was the cause of massive weight gain in a woman?
> 
> Unless there was documentation that the feedee was being force feed, I can't really see how someone would be able to prove that the guy actually caused the weight gain. We all eat.. there are millions of fat people that over indulge on a daily basis, how could one prove that another person was responsible for me getting fat?



I think a DA could reasonably argue it was "brain-washing." Yup, juries would fall for that horseshit in a minute, and if you or me is ruled we're not sane, we don't have to press the charges. The state will for us. 

I have a good friend who's a schizo and her husband has gotten in trouble for neglect, despite the fact he can't help it that she's insane and won't take her meds. They're legally separated now because he can't be going into court because he's considered her default guardian and she's perceived as a threat to others. 



AnnMarie said:


> I think these are excellent questions, especially in terms of government services.
> 
> It's also a slippery slope... if I didn't force myself to get fat, but chose to lead my life as a fat person and someday was disabled as an effect of something related, am I also denied? I'm sure some would say yes... it's your fault.
> 
> I'm not arguing, to be clear, I just think it's an interesting train of thought, and could lead in a lot of very weird/scary directions for the "naturally" fat among us.
> 
> I suppose bottom line though, is that disabled is disabled, no matter how it happened... I don't think someone suffering from meth mouth and on the skids has any trouble getting assistance if they're playing the game and jumping through the bureaucratic hoops.



Too excited that work is almost over, but good points. Will reply later. Didn't ignore them though.



Waxwing said:


> He wouldn't get in trouble legally for helping someone starve.



Lemme clarify: Helping someone alter their bodies to the point of sickness could have serious legal ramifications. Don't see why it couldn't. Example: A D has a sub agree to restrict. The Dom/me foreseeably could be in an assload of of trouble if the state presses charges if the sub gets ill, if that person is found to be mentally unstable.

ETA: I gots to jet, folks, but now I'm interested. BB real soon!


----------



## Waxwing

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Lemme clarify: Helping someone alter their bodies to the point of sickness could have serious legal ramifications. Don't see why it couldn't. Example: A D has a sub agree to restrict. The Dom/me foreseeably could be in an assload of of trouble if the state presses charges if the sub gets ill, if that person is found to be mentally unstable.


 
Most certainly, if the person is found to be legally incompetent, the Dom or whomever could be charged with gross indifference at the very least. That said, it's rather difficult to prove that someone is mentally incompetent. You could get away with a hell of a lot of manipulation bordering on abuse and not be legally liable for it. The 'victim' has to be pretty demonstrably mentally ill or incapable of making informed decisions for it to be otherwise. 

But whether or not it could get you sent to the clink, taking advangate of someone's fragile mental state for your own erotic gains is a monstrous thing to do. I wasn't sure if in the midst of all of my legal rantings I made it clear that of course I believe that.

*taps foot impatiently waiting for TSL's return:


----------



## Waxwing

one more thing reiterating what Misty said earlier-- does anyone have any idea or impression of how often, if at all, feederism ever actually drifts into immobility territory? i'm really curious.


----------



## LoveBHMS

Let's say you have a chronic illness. Your quality of life decreases each day and you have no chance of recovering. As an adult of sound mind, you wish to end your life as you believe this illness will affect your quality of life to the point that you don't believe living is worth it.

You decide to simply quit eating and let nature take its course. I think the human body will live for something like 4-6 weeks without food. Again, you have made this choice as an adult with an illness that has no cure or treatment.

What should your partner do? Can s/he force you to eat? No. Does s/he have a responsibility to respect your wishes OR must s/he go to the police or court system and have you declared mentally incompetent and hospitalized and force fed? In that case, you are being made to do something you as an adult in a free world have chosen to not do.

If your partner resepected your wishes, should s/he be brought up on neglect charges? Or charged with Assisted Suicide if it is not legal in your state?


----------



## Waxwing

LoveBHMS said:


> Let's say you have a chronic illness. Your quality of life decreases each day and you have no chance of recovering. As an adult of sound mind, you wish to end your life as you believe this illness will affect your quality of life to the point that you don't believe living is worth it.
> 
> You decide to simply quit eating and let nature take its course. I think the human body will live for something like 4-6 weeks without food. Again, you have made this choice as an adult with an illness that has no cure or treatment.
> 
> What should your partner do? Can s/he force you to eat? No. Does s/he have a responsibility to respect your wishes OR must s/he go to the police or court system and have you declared mentally incompetent and hospitalized and force fed? In that case, you are being made to do something you as an adult in a free world have chosen to not do.
> 
> If your partner resepected your wishes, should s/he be brought up on neglect charges? Or charged with Assisted Suicide if it is not legal in your state?



This is a great question. I don't believe that you should be brought up on neglect charges, but you may be. Likewise you would probably be slapped with a civil suit by your mate's family.

In some sense though that's different from actively participating in someone's eventual demise. You aren't adding to the problem; you are a passive observer. I don't know if that's a meaningful distinction though.


----------



## LoveBHMS

One it was an episode of "Law and Order" and the woman who wanted to starve to death had her grandaughter charged with assisted suicide. Something about depraved indifference to human life.

Also, I know a guy whose mother did just that. He tried to talk her out of it but she had cancer and didn't want to go through radiation and chemo and drugs and all that, she wanted to let nature take its course and she felt that she'd managed her own life and was competant to manage her own death.

As far as the passive thing goes, aren't there changing "good samaritan" laws? You see this in the news every now and then.

And starvation takes time. What if we worked together and I told you I was going to leave work and toss myself off a bridge? You as a civilian have (probably) no legal imperative, but if you were a teacher or doctor or social worker, you would. So for some people, if they knew a person was going to harm him or herself, they would be legally bound to try to prevent it.


----------



## Jack Skellington

AnnMarie said:


> There are tons of things that are painful in life that we choose to do anyway... tattoos, piercings???



To clarify, It's about extremes.

Nothing wrong with having some tats and peircings. When you take it to extremes like the guy mentioned in this thread:

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21432

It becomes something else. I would question his mental health and the person that did it too him.

Fantasys and feeder/feedee role play is one thing. Fattening someone to immobility is another. 

Same with wanting to be thin. Nothing wrong with that. Wanting to be thin to the point of starving yourself to death is another.

S&M is also one thing. Beating the piss out of your partner is another. 

Now that that's out of the way.

I stand by what I've been saying. Abuse is abuse and finding a partner that will endure abuse doesn't make it right.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> 
> 
> *I think you're right there.* For those whom immobility is a goal though, it raises some important questions:
> 
> Now that these people are disabled and cannot work to support themselves, are they entitled to government benefits?
> 
> When someone's behavior becomes harmful in the other extreme, like in anorexia nervosa, they are hospitalized.
> 
> Why is being so fat you can't walk more sane than starving to the point where you can't stand without fainting?
> 
> Should someone who wants their body altered to the point of self-harm be considered mentally ill?
> 
> If my boyfriend helps me starve to death, he gets in HUGE trouble. That's considered abuse. Again, why is it different if a guy feeds a woman who some would deem as mentally ill to the point where she is incapable of self-care?



You know TSL, I actually thought about this myself the past couple of days but wasn't sure how to broach it- thanks for bringing it up. Anorexics are considered a danger to themselves, to an extent, and usually get "mental health treatment" (I have a cousin who is anorexic- she had to see a psychiatrist for it is what I base this on- I saw a counselor myself for my own eating disorder) so why is it so different to consider a woman that is willing to eat herself to bad health and immobility to have some type of mental health problem? It really IS something I wondered..... I mean going by arguments I have seen in this thread, isn't it the right of the anorexic to never eat again? Why is there help out there for anorexics/other eating disorders if eating yourself to mobility is such a "normal" thing?


***I am asking this question as someone with an eating disorder, not to make anyone feel bad about themselves or lifestyle or choices.


----------



## AnnMarie

I don't think eating yourself to immobility is a "normal" thing... so just wanted to get that said. It's clearly not the norm - even here, it's fringe, but it's something that some people here either play with or at the very least keep as part of their fantasy life. 

I'm not saying this is the difference, but one to me seems to be that eating disorders of the "thinning" variety often have to do with overt control over life issues where the person has no other control and also with some level (for some) of body dismorphia, where some really don't see/believe that they are already desperately skinny. 

With people who want to gain, they want to be super fat/fatter/maybe immobile, etc. They have a goal in mind and go for it for only that reason. They know they're fat, but they want to be fatter - not that they can't see they are fat. They like the fat on them, want more of it, etc. 

Now, I'm not saying that each extreme isn't endangering life on levels, just that there seem to be very different motivations (sexual being a large one in those who wish to gain) in each extreme. 





Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You know TSL, I actually thought about this myself the past couple of days but wasn't sure how to broach it- thanks for bringing it up. Anorexics are considered a danger to themselves, to an extent, and usually get "mental health treatment" (I have a cousin who is anorexic- she had to see a psychiatrist for it is what I base this on- I saw a counselor myself for my own eating disorder) so why is it so different to consider a woman that is willing to eat herself to bad health and immobility to have some type of mental health problem? It really IS something I wondered..... I mean going by arguments I have seen in this thread, isn't it the right of the anorexic to never eat again? Why is there help out there for anorexics/other eating disorders if eating yourself to mobility is such a "normal" thing?
> 
> 
> ***I am asking this question as someone with an eating disorder, not to make anyone feel bad about themselves or lifestyle or choices.


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist

Waxwing said:


> Most certainly, if the person is found to be legally incompetent, the Dom or whomever could be charged with gross indifference at the very least. That said, it's rather difficult to prove that someone is mentally incompetent. You could get away with a hell of a lot of manipulation bordering on abuse and not be legally liable for it. The 'victim' has to be pretty demonstrably mentally ill or incapable of making informed decisions for it to be otherwise.
> 
> But whether or not it could get you sent to the clink, taking advangate of someone's fragile mental state for your own erotic gains is a monstrous thing to do. I wasn't sure if in the midst of all of my legal rantings I made it clear that of course I believe that.
> 
> *taps foot impatiently waiting for TSL's return:



I drove through the worst traffic and skipped going to get diet soda to get back to you. I hope you're happy. 

Seriously, if that went to jury, people flip out over eating disorders. People who encourage/get off on that behavior or behavior that resembles that do not have a chance. That said, it'd have to be at the extreme: Think low 80's or into 1000's; there you're right.

And let's just tell the truth, WW. Let's be real for ONE MINUTE: We all know you have one super skinny slave and one supersized one. Tell the truth for a minute, if you can.


----------



## LillyBBBW

In a situation where a person has asked someone to gain to immobility for them, and out of love for the asker the partner has agreed that is one thing. If a person meets someone and the person is deliberatley gaining and it is understood in advance that is something else entirely. A feedee is not sitting around witing for her dashing prince to come and feed her. This is something she is already into and the guy who is with her is fully aware and is either tolerant of it or just as into it as she is. But there is no one 'feeding' a feedee, one of the reasons I hate that word. The word "Gainer" would probably be more appropriate and "Fan of Weight Gain" as the opposite though the label is too long. 

As for the first scenario I don't think there are scores of people locked in private rooms being fed against their will or coerced into being fed. We've all seen disturbing examples of this taking place but clearly this is not the norm. Every now and then you hear a story about a lone woman or man locked in their bedfoom for 'X' years and the fire department has to remove a wall to get them out of there for medical care or some such thing. Generally in these cases the person is single. Should family members, neighbors, the mailman, the gardner be held accountable or charged with abuse because they enabled the person to continue in their lifestyle? If the police are called and they see an immobile obese person in a bedroom seemingly safe and unharmed they cannot enact anything on their behalf if the person is seemingly cohearant and doesn't want help.


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist

Exactly. I suppose if someone had rotten COE and decided just to "embrace it," they could accomplish immobility. So, other than shame, what separates *extreme* feederism from an eating disorder? I guess one's eating with intent, but it still vaguely says something about mental health, to me, to want to eat to immobility. I don't think it's anyone's "right" to give themselves hideous bedsore scars, beat their pancreas and other organs unmercifully with excess, lose their ability to walk, and isolate themselves so they have really no chance of turning it around. At least, not if you believe the government should ensure its citizens, at the very least, have a right to the pursuit of happiness. Kind of hard to pursue things when you're restrained to your bed without assistance. 

I don't believe in a nanny state that says consenting adults can't have a feeder/feedee relationship, but if you're immobile, I think the state at least should step in and make sure both parties are willing AND prepared to deal with this.



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You know TSL, I actually thought about this myself the past couple of days but wasn't sure how to broach it- thanks for bringing it up. Anorexics are considered a danger to themselves, to an extent, and usually get "mental health treatment" (I have a cousin who is anorexic- she had to see a psychiatrist for it is what I base this on- I saw a counselor myself for my own eating disorder) so why is it so different to consider a woman that is willing to eat herself to bad health and immobility to have some type of mental health problem? It really IS something I wondered..... I mean going by arguments I have seen in this thread, isn't it the right of the anorexic to never eat again? Why is there help out there for anorexics/other eating disorders if eating yourself to mobility is such a "normal" thing?
> 
> 
> ***I am asking this question as someone with an eating disorder, not to make anyone feel bad about themselves or lifestyle or choices.


----------



## Jack Skellington

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> I don't think it's anyone's "right" to give themselves hideous bedsore scars, beat their pancreas and other organs unmercifully with excess, lose their ability to walk, and isolate themselves so they have really no chance of turning it around.



Preach it.

I would also agree that feeding yourself to immobility certainly could be/should be defined as an eating disorder. In away the other side of the coin of anorexia.

[edit]

I think there is a type disconnect with some in the FA community that would cringe at the idea of someone starving themselves to death but have no problem with someone eating themself to death.


----------



## LillyBBBW

There are many different kinds of eating disorders out there, including overeating. Having an eating disorder is not illegal in this country. I'm not sure how the law applies but can an adult with anorexia or any other form of an eating disorder be forced to seek treatment?


----------



## Waxwing

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> And let's just tell the truth, WW. Let's be real for ONE MINUTE: We all know you have one super skinny slave and one supersized one. Tell the truth for a minute, if you can.



I asked you, nicely, to PLEASE not out me on the board. It's something I'm working on, OKAY? I just...CAN'T let them go. 

In all seriousness, you're right about, well, everything. Yes it would have to be extremes, and in either extreme contributing to it by encouraging it is a deeply selfish and uncaring thing to do. And with either extreme immobility is the possible result. 

AnneMarie I think that in many cases eating disorders on the low extreme begin with a desire to have control (oversimplification on my part, but take it as read that it's complicated and different for everyone), but it can also be wanting to get to a very specific point. Once you connect the weight issue with the emotional pain that's sent you there, you can grow to genuinely *like* the look of protruding bones and lanugo. People can tell themselves that it's not a mental issue, that they just really really really want to get down to 80 pounds. If you really really want to gain to immobility, the two aren't that far removed. 

I am not not not saying that feedees are mentally ill. But at these fringe extremes, it is scary. I totally buy that someone can want to be larger and larger, but I can't imagine not wanting to move.


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist

Damn, I thought about this and no answer. All I can say is I have no idea how the government would handle it with feederism especially.



AnnMarie said:


> I think these are excellent questions, especially in terms of government services.
> 
> It's also a slippery slope... if I didn't force myself to get fat, but chose to lead my life as a fat person and someday was disabled as an effect of something related, am I also denied? I'm sure some would say yes... it's your fault.
> 
> I'm not arguing, to be clear, I just think it's an interesting train of thought, and could lead in a lot of very weird/scary directions for the "naturally" fat among us.
> 
> I suppose bottom line though, is that disabled is disabled, no matter how it happened... I don't think someone suffering from meth mouth and on the skids has any trouble getting assistance if they're playing the game and jumping through the bureaucratic hoops.


----------



## Waxwing

LillyBBBW said:


> There are many different kinds of eating disorders out there, including overeating. Having an eating disorder is not illegal in this country. I'm not sure how the law applies but can an adult with anorexia or any other form of an eating disorder be forced to seek treatment?



Well it works in the same way that expressing suicidal desires can cause you to be locked up. It's that danger to self or others thing. So if you are at a point approaching death, I believe that the state can force you to undergo treatment. But I'm not 100% sure on that one.


----------



## Waxwing

AnneMarie's question about governmental assistance is a great one, and I didn't think of an answer either. Hell, that one could be its own thread.


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist

LillyBBBW said:


> There are many different kinds of eating disorders out there, including overeating. Having an eating disorder is not illegal in this country. I'm not sure how the law applies but can an adult with anorexia or any other form of an eating disorder be forced to seek treatment?



Yep. You can initially be held for 48 to 72 hours depending on the state. If they rule you're harmful to yourself, they can pretty well hold you as long as you like. (Mind you, your weight has to be VERY low in all cases I've heard of...) I really don't see why they couldn't or wouldn't do the same to someone weighing, say, 1,300 lbs.


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## LillyBBBW

So Bill and Joanne are in a consensual feeding relationship. Joanne's a gainer and Bill is quite pleased with the arrangement but suddenly something is not quite right. Bill is beginning to notice some things, some very unhealthy things and wonders if it is not now time to stop. Joanne on the otherhand thinks Bill is overreacting but Bill is truly getting a bit alarmed as it seems things are getting way out of hand. Bill fears doing anything because he loves Joanne and fears that if he intervenes Joanne will become angry and leave him.

This in general is THE most common scenario in a feeder type relationship. Even where there is a gainer and the partner is not really into feeding at all, if a person doesn't want to lose the trust of their beloved they may do nothing until something really bad happens. When the truth is finally revealed everyone thinks "bad bad Bill, that sicko sat there and let her get that way" but many times there is more to it than what appears on the surface.


----------



## Waxwing

LillyBBBW said:


> So Bill and Joanne are in a consensual feeding relationship. Joanne's a gainer and Bill is quite pleased with the arrangement but suddenly something is not quite right. Bill is beginning to notice some things, some very unhealthy things and wonders if it is not now time to stop. Joanne on the otherhand thinks Bill is overreacting but Bill is truly getting a bit alarmed as it seems things are getting way out of hand. Bill fears doing anything because he loves Joanne and fears that if he intervenes Joanne will become angry and leave him.
> 
> This in general is THE most common scenario in a feeder type relationship. Even where there is a gainer and the partner is not really into feeding at all, if a person doesn't want to lose the trust of their beloved they may do nothing until something really bad happens. When the truth is finally revealed everyone thinks "bad bad Bill, that sicko sat there and let her get that way" but many times there is more to it than what appears on the surface.



Agreed, Lilly. With all this talk of what's abusive and what's not, we forget that much of it is personal responsibility for your own body.


----------



## LillyBBBW

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Yep. You can initially be held for 48 to 72 hours depending on the state. If they rule you're harmful to yourself, they can pretty well hold you as long as you like. (Mind you, your weight has to be VERY low in all cases I've heard of...) I really don't see why they couldn't or wouldn't do the same to someone weighing, say, 1,300 lbs.



I would think that the situation for a gainer would be a bit more tricky. For a small person all you need do is plop them in your purse and off they go. For a big person you need a lot more. You need the right amount to subdue them if they are resisting, you need to get them out of the house, you needsuitable transport, a place to hold them, etc. If the person is harmed in any way you could be sued, etc. I'd be surprised if there were too many places prepared to deal with the eventuality of having to remove an 800 pound person from their home given the low incidence.


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## MisticalMisty

Waxwing said:


> Agreed, Lilly. With all this talk of what's abusive and what's not, we forget that much of it is *personal responsibility for your own body.*



LMFAO..I preached that for 4 or 5 pages.


----------



## Waxwing

MisticalMisty said:


> LMFAO..I preached that for 4 or 5 pages.



I know! I hope I didn't sound like "oh i'm the voice of reason in the insanity." I really was just reiterating what you were saying like 4 hours ago.


----------



## LillyBBBW

There are so many fat people around this place that sometimes certain realities can get obscured. We make it look easy!  Most folks around here are not deliberately trying to gain and have never done so. The truth is that it is _very_ difficult to gain to a significant amount. Unless you are predisposed for it already which rarely anyone is, or you have some illness that causes you to gain rapidly wether you want to or not, you would have a hell of a time trying to gain. The body has its own defense system against that. You may be able to enjoy lavish eating but only for so long before your own body will work against you. You will come to a place where you *can't* eat any more. The sight of food will make you dizzy and whatever gains you've made will be lost almost immediately. Unless you've actively tried to gain you would not know this but gainers know it all too well. You want to eat the food but your arm goes to your stomach, you stick out your tongue in disgust and order the club soda with lime. You can't. Forced feeding results in vomiting.

Everyone's peak point is different. Some need medical care at 250 pounds, others can make it to 475 before signs of anything begin to show. People who got to 500 pounds have not achieved some great accomplishment. It is something they were predisposed to do anyway and in many cases could not have prevented it if they tried. They have merely overshot their normal weight which was already exorbitantly high to begin with.

The human body is a fascinating machine. The dietary needs for a spunky 4'10" dynamo are going to be vastly different than that of a 6'4" burly lumberjack. Demographics on averages are a nice tool but not absolutes for individuals. It can be difficult to tell what is abuse and what is something that the person has no control over. It is almost impossible for a person to get to 800 pounds unless their body has an allowance for it. Just like all anorexics aren't grossly thin, all gainers are not grossly fat. It is hard to tell with the human eye who is sick and who is not.


----------



## Brenda

"The truth is that it is very difficult to gain to a significant amount"

This has not been my experience. I can gain tons of weight without trying, when I eat what I want I gain quickly. I never not want to eat, but have to force myself not to to avoid weight gain.

Many of the fat people I know tell me they are similiar to me in this regard.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Brenda said:


> "The truth is that it is very difficult to gain to a significant amount"
> 
> This has not been my experience. I can gain tons of weight without trying, when I eat what I want I gain quickly. I never not want to eat, but have to force myself not to to avoid weight gain.
> 
> Many of the fat people I know tell me they are similiar to me in this regard.



As am I. I gain very easily. What I'm talking about is a deliberate gain, such as setting a goal to weigh 600 pounds. You might be able to put on 40 or 50 easily but after that it would be very tough.


----------



## Butterbelly

Wow...I can't believe I missed this thread.

I've been in only one feeder/feedee relationship before. At first, it was an amazing experience to have someone feed me sensual foods, love on my belly while I ate...plus it lead to amazing sex. However, after months of being in this relationship, I started to have some sort of emotional/mental breakdown from it all. I, honestly, started believing that he was with me for the sole purpose of "fattening" me up, and that he didn't really care about anything else. Our relationship revolved round the "feeding" fantasies and eventually, I couldn't handle it anymore. I NEVER wanted the feeding to become the main focus of the relationship, but as time went on...that's exactly what happened.

After the relationship was over, I absolutely despised the thought of someone feeding me...especially feeding me mini eclairs in bed. It took me a long time to realize that it wasn't that "act" of someone feeding me that repulsed me...it was the thought of it becoming a main focus in any further relationship I had with a FA. That being said, I would welcome the idea of someone sensually feeding me again, as long as it wasn't with the intent to purposely gain a lot of weight.


----------



## LJ Rock

LillyBBBW said:


> The word "Gainer" would probably be more appropriate and "Fan of Weight Gain" as the opposite though the label is too long.



From what I have read, the terms "gainer" and "encourager" are commonly accepted already in the gay community. It seems like these are more relevant terms in either case.


----------



## Waxwing

Thank you for sharing that, Butterbelly. It sucks that you had that experience, but I guess the constant danger with fetishes is that you might not always be sure if the person is with you for you, or to further their sexual desires. 

Well you deserve someone who can explore that with you, and feed you things you love, AND love and respect you for who you are.


----------



## Jack Skellington

MisticalMisty said:


> LMFAO..I preached that for 4 or 5 pages.



In my opinion, allowing yourself to be harmed (like in the extreme cases of immobility or getting beaten for example) is not taking responsibility for yourself. That's being abused.


----------



## LoveBHMS

but I think feederism has as much to do with eating disorders as BDSM had to do with cutting/self mutilation.

A sexual kink having to do with food is not necessarily related to a mental disorder relating to food.

There is also a huge difference between feederism as a sexual practice and "feeding somebody" in a sensual manner. You can hand feed somebody strawberries or truffles without the expectation or intent that they will gain weight. I mean you can also pour somebody a glass of wine without the intention of making them an alcoholic.

Feeding somebody either with the intention that they will gain weight or the fantasy they will gain weight (let's say it's done just as an occaisional isolated practice and not a lifestyle or ongoing activity) is again, a sexual kink and between two consenting adults, should be seen as suck.


----------



## LillyBBBW

LJ Rock said:


> From what I have read, the terms "gainer" and "encourager" are commonly accepted already in the gay community. It seems like these are more relevant terms in either case.



The gay community seems to be a step ahead of all of us in almost every aspect. Those terms make much more sense.


----------



## HeatherBBW

Jack Skellington said:


> In my opinion, allowing yourself to be harmed (like in the extreme cases of immobility or getting beaten for example) is not taking responsibility for yourself. That's being abused.



Why is it that someone is always "doing this to another". What about people who just fantasize, wish and possibly live out the situation on their own?

I'm not a victim, nor am I abused.


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## HeatherBBW

LoveBHMS said:


> but I think feederism has as much to do with eating disorders as BDSM had to do with cutting/self mutilation.
> 
> A sexual kink having to do with food is not necessarily related to a mental disorder relating to food.
> 
> There is also a huge difference between feederism as a sexual practice and "feeding somebody" in a sensual manner. You can hand feed somebody strawberries or truffles without the expectation or intent that they will gain weight. I mean you can also pour somebody a glass of wine without the intention of making them an alcoholic.
> 
> Feeding somebody either with the intention that they will gain weight or the fantasy they will gain weight (let's say it's done just as an occaisional isolated practice and not a lifestyle or ongoing activity) is again, a sexual kink and between two consenting adults, should be seen as suck.



I'd just like to throw in quickly, that weight gain fantasies don't always equate to mass consumption of food... 

I hate the term "Feedee" or "Gainer" - honestly, I just want to be fat.. fatter.. and that's that.


----------



## Jack Skellington

HeatherBBW said:


> Why is it that someone is always "doing this to another". What about people who just fantasize, wish and possibly live out the situation on their own?



Fantasy and feeder/feedee role play is one thing. Taking it to the extreme of immobility is another. 

I've been clear and consistent on my stance throughout this. Now, I'm stepping out of this discussion. Anything more is just repeating myself.


----------



## HeatherBBW

Jack Skellington said:


> Fantasy and feeder/feedee role play is one thing. Taking it to the extreme of immobility is another.
> 
> I've been clear and consistent on my stance throughout this. Now, I'm stepping out of this discussion. Anything more is just repeating myself.



Trust me, I understand your take on it all and I disagree on many points. But that isn't the reason I posted back, I was just trying to explain that these relationships and situations are sometimes solo and the aspects aren't always as black and white as you might think.


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## alienlanes

Yikes, another big batch of posts to respond to!  

Lilly's right about terminology. ("The first necessity is to rectify the names of things" -- Confucius.) From now on I'm going to use "gainer" and "encourager" instead of "feedee" and "feeder." Hope this doesn't confuse anyone! 

That said, I think we're talking way too much about hypothetical extreme cases. 

We all agree that manipulating someone's low self-esteem to make them gain when they don't really want to is deeply, profoundly wrong. The major division here seems to be over whether or not, in the case of someone who has a genuine gaining fetish, choosing immobility with all its attendant health problems is inevitably the sign of a disordered psychology.

My personal inclination, out of political principle, is to say "hands off" and let the hypothetical gainer do what they like. But I'm out of my depth when it comes to the legal definition of a sound mind, and I recognize that reasonable people can differ on where to draw the line between acceptable risk and unacceptable self-harm.

But seriously, how often does this situation come up in real life? Out of the already tiny number of people with a gaining fetish, how many of them are really single-minded enough to willingly give up the possibility of a normal life in order to indulge it? The fantasy of overflowing a bed is sexy to some of us, but real-life bedsores and bedpans aren't. Reasonable people realize this, and anyone who's genuinely interested in deliberate weight gain has thought long and hard about it. Whatever immobile gainers actually exist are a tiny minority of a tiny minority.

When we leave the hypothetical extreme of crippling immobility and start talking about plausible real-world scenarios, I think things become a lot more clear-cut. If somebody with a gaining fetish thinks it'd be hot to gain fifty pounds, and they're willing to accept the possible negative side effects, that's their own damn business -- no different from cigarettes or skydiving.


----------



## Jay West Coast

Wow, I can't believe I read so much of this thread. I mean, this is the topic of ages on Dimensions. So, I suppose its no coincidence that the thread is of epic proportions and emotions have been tested. I'm not really much of a feeder, but you can't hang around Dimensions for 10 years and not be quite familiar with the idea. I enjoy picking the brains of people I've met from around here, and oddly enough I've gotten to know many more gainers than feeders in my time here, and thus perhaps feel more an understanding of "feedees" than the "feeders." 

Sew, I have a question, actually posed by a friend of mine who happens to also be an active gainer. 

Say a woman is a gainer and open about it going into a relationship. The guy, however, isn't interested by weight gain at all, but seems to resign to the "to each his own" in response to her questions on the topic. Then, once in the relationship he explains that she is greatly "limiting herself" and being "willingly unhealthy" because of her desire to be bigger. He requires of her to no longer pursue gaining, against her independent wishes. 

Is this unfair of him, since it's her body and her right to do with it as she pleases? Is this not the same as a feeder requiring a non-gainer to gain? Or is this guy in the right for supposedly preserving her health and best interests?


----------



## alienlanes

Jay West Coast said:


> Say a woman is a gainer and open about it going into a relationship. The guy, however, isn't interested by weight gain at all, but seems to resign to the "to each his own" in response to her questions on the topic. Then, once in the relationship he explains that she is greatly "limiting herself" and being "willingly unhealthy" because of her desire to be bigger. He requires of her to no longer pursue gaining, against her independent wishes.
> 
> Is this unfair of him, since it's her body and her right to do with it as she pleases? Is this not the same as a feeder requiring a non-gainer to gain? Or is this guy in the right for supposedly preserving her health and best interests?



Ooh, that's a good question.

At first this struck me as a clear-cut case of the Dan Savage principle. If she was honest with him about her desire to gain, and if he implicitly or explicitly agreed to tolerate it, he shouldn't renege on that agreement. Plus the word "require" raises a red flag for me -- it sounds like he's making a unilateral demand that she stop or he dumps her. If that's true, he's being a manipulative jerk.

_But_, if they have a genuinely caring relationship and he's honestly concerned about her health... that's totally valid, and she should be willing to listen to him.

I don't know the details, of course, about how serious their relationship is or just how big she's trying to get. That said, my suggestion would be: She should agree to stop or at least slow down her gain for a while while they research and discuss its possible implications. But in return, he should be willing to roleplay gaining and feeding with her, even if he's not into it himself, so that her needs aren't going totally unsatisfied.

-- SlackerFA, advice columnist


----------



## LoveBHMS

SlackerFA said:


> Ooh, that's a good question.
> 
> At first this struck me as a clear-cut case of the Dan Savage principle. If she was honest with him about her desire to gain, and if he implicitly or explicitly agreed to tolerate it, he shouldn't renege on that agreement. Plus the word "require" raises a red flag for me -- it sounds like he's making a unilateral demand that she stop or he dumps her. If that's true, he's being a manipulative jerk.
> 
> _But_, if they have a genuinely caring relationship and he's honestly concerned about her health... that's totally valid, and she should be willing to listen to him.
> 
> I don't know the details, of course, about how serious their relationship is or just how big she's trying to get. That said, my suggestion would be: She should agree to stop or at least slow down her gain for a while while they research and discuss its possible implications. But in return, he should be willing to roleplay gaining and feeding with her, even if he's not into it himself, so that her needs aren't going totally unsatisfied.
> 
> -- SlackerFA, advice columnist



Again, you are talking about degrees here. If a partner said "I'm into BDSM" it might not be your cup of tea, but you learn some proficiency with a whip and handcuffs. If at some point your partner wants you to put out a cigarette in his hand or stomp on him wearing stiletto heels, you might well pull back and say you can't do that. It's not a matter of not respecting his desires, but believing they are being taken beyond where you feel you can ethically participate.

To go back to TSL's remarks about eating disorders. If you were overweight, you might ask your partner to help you out with holding your feet while you do situps or agreeing to go out to eat only at places that serve salads or other low cal fare. You'd willingly do this to help your partner achieve a goal. If s/he starts to get dangerously underweight, you might well say "Look, you need to stop losing weight now, you are far below normal and your health might be affected." I don't think at that point your partner can call you out for being unsupportive or for bailing out on your agreement to help with weight loss.


----------



## MisticalMisty

Jack Skellington said:


> In my opinion, allowing yourself to be harmed (like in the extreme cases of immobility or getting beaten for example) is not taking responsibility for yourself. That's being abused.



Yep Jack..we got that the first time you said it!


----------



## LillyBBBW

LoveBHMS said:


> Again, you are talking about degrees here. If a partner said "I'm into BDSM" it might not be your cup of tea, but you learn some proficiency with a whip and handcuffs. If at some point your partner wants you to put out a cigarette in his hand or stomp on him wearing stiletto heels, you might well pull back and say you can't do that. It's not a matter of not respecting his desires, but believing they are being taken beyond where you feel you can ethically participate.
> 
> To go back to TSL's remarks about eating disorders. If you were overweight, you might ask your partner to help you out with holding your feet while you do situps or agreeing to go out to eat only at places that serve salads or other low cal fare. You'd willingly do this to help your partner achieve a goal. If s/he starts to get dangerously underweight, you might well say "Look, you need to stop losing weight now, you are far below normal and your health might be affected." I don't think at that point your partner can call you out for being unsupportive or for bailing out on your agreement to help with weight loss.



I agree. It's like that with anything. If your partner were a casual drinker and you can see a problem developing you are not out of line to raise your concerns. Chances are she wouldn't keep quiet if the situation were reversed.


----------



## MisticalMisty

Jay West Coast said:


> Say a woman is a gainer and open about it going into a relationship. The guy, however, isn't interested by weight gain at all, but seems to resign to the "to each his own" in response to her questions on the topic. Then, once in the relationship he explains that she is greatly "limiting herself" and being "willingly unhealthy" because of her desire to be bigger. He requires of her to no longer pursue gaining, against her independent wishes.



Honestly, if it were me, the relationship wouldn't have began in the first place, but it if it seriously already had, I would probably cut ties and go our separate ways. Will that be hard to do? Hell yes. Is it something that may need to be done? Sounds that way.

The red flag for me is the "to each his own" in this context. It reminds me of men that don't have a preference. If I'm activitely changing my body, it's going to become a huge issue. I would think that I would pursue someone with the same interest so that I could be explore it and continue doing it without feeling guilty when my s.o becomes uncomfortable with it.

The word that bothers me the most is requires. I'm sorry. No man has the right to tell me what to do and what not to do. He's more than welcome to ASK ME..but to require me to do something is out of the question, unless that's the nature of our relationship..ie D/S etc.

As a fat girl, I seek out FAs specifically. If I were a gainer, I would definitely seek out someone that was into me gaining.


----------



## LillyBBBW

I wouldn't leave unannounced though, I would at least take the moment to say, "We need to talk." If the person isn't at least open to hear you out that's a sign that maybe it's time to walk. They may have rights but you have them too and if you don't want to put up with something you certainly don't have to. But you should at least speak up and let the person know how you feel. 



MisticalMisty said:


> Honestly, if it were me, the relationship wouldn't have began in the first place, but it if it seriously already had, I would probably cut ties and go our separate ways. Will that be hard to do? Hell yes. Is it something that may need to be done? Sounds that way.
> 
> The red flag for me is the "to each his own" in this context. It reminds me of men that don't have a preference. If I'm activitely changing my body, it's going to become a huge issue. I would think that I would pursue someone with the same interest so that I could be explore it and continue doing it without feeling guilty when my s.o becomes uncomfortable with it.
> 
> The word that bothers me the most is requires. I'm sorry. No man has the right to tell me what to do and what not to do. He's more than welcome to ASK ME..but to require me to do something is out of the question, unless that's the nature of our relationship..ie D/S etc.
> 
> As a fat girl, I seek out FAs specifically. If I were a gainer, I would definitely seek out someone that was into me gaining.


----------



## EtobicokeFA

Sorry to be late to the discussion. 

I agree that having a open and honest discussion about her want to gain weight. Tell her that you care for her and like her to maintain a level of health. And, if you can't come to a understanding then it might be time to shove off.


----------



## EtobicokeFA

AnnMarie said:


> I think these are excellent questions, especially in terms of government services.
> 
> It's also a slippery slope... if I didn't force myself to get fat, but chose to lead my life as a fat person and someday was disabled as an effect of something related, am I also denied? I'm sure some would say yes... it's your fault.
> 
> I'm not arguing, to be clear, I just think it's an interesting train of thought, and could lead in a lot of very weird/scary directions for the "naturally" fat among us.
> 
> I suppose bottom line though, is that disabled is disabled, no matter how it happened... I don't think someone suffering from meth mouth and on the skids has any trouble getting assistance if they're playing the game and jumping through the bureaucratic hoops.



This is an interesting train of thought indeed! If you want to you can also make the case that if a person get disabled because they are involved in a extreme sport then it their fault and the government shouldn't paid for them either. 

It all comes down to the risk we are willing to take. For example one of my uncles works in demolition, he loves it, but my family been worried that he going to be hurt at his job. He hasn't had an accident at work for fifty year. Ironically, his only accident was when he almost drown at the beach while on vacation. (Don't worry he okay, and still happily making money blowing things up!)


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

LillyBBBW said:


> I agree. It's like that with anything. If your partner were a casual drinker and you can see a problem developing you are not out of line to raise your concerns. Chances are she wouldn't keep quiet if the situation were reversed.



I had this same exact thought when I read LoveBHMS's posts- there is the possibility of too much excess in ANYTHING in ANY relationship. At some point it's not being "disloyal" to tell the person you love that you are concerned about them and say enough is enough.


----------



## Jack Skellington

MisticalMisty said:


> Yep Jack..we got that the first time you said it!



Don't drag me back into the conversation unless you want me to say things you don't want to hear.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

AnnMarie said:


> I think these are excellent questions, especially in terms of government services.
> 
> It's also a slippery slope... if I didn't force myself to get fat, but chose to lead my life as a fat person and someday was disabled as an effect of something related, am I also denied? I'm sure some would say yes... it's your fault.
> 
> I'm not arguing, to be clear, I just think it's an interesting train of thought, and could lead in a lot of very weird/scary directions for the "naturally" fat among us.
> 
> I suppose bottom line though, is that disabled is disabled, no matter how it happened... *I don't think someone suffering from meth mouth and on the skids has any trouble getting assistance if they're playing the game and jumping through the bureaucratic hoops*.



Just have to say that in the state where I live, they have now started NOT granting disability benefits to anyone who is shown to have gotten that way from alcohol/drug abuse. If they find anything like that in your records, they will question it and take it into consideration during a hearing of whether or not you are actually entitled to any benefits.
They don't want to support drug addicts and alcoholics that have harmed themselves any more.


----------



## BigCutieSasha

I would say that people can change their mind at anytime in a relationship about what they want and don't want. Like when someone might be ok in the beginning of a relationship with their partner smoking a bit and then later on wants them to stop all together. It's one persons prerogative. It doesn't mean that the partner needs to change or stop what they are doing though. That would be where the couple comes to a crossroads and has to decide where they go from there. You can't and shouldn't change someone for your own preferences or dislikes. Talking it out of course is a good idea, but if a girl wants to gain then thats her gig. If a man wants her to stop, then obviously there is an incompatibility there. I guess it all depends on how big a part of her life it is to gain.


----------



## Brenda

"Say a woman is a gainer and open about it going into a relationship. The guy, however, isn't interested by weight gain at all, but seems to resign to the "to each his own" in response to her questions on the topic. Then, once in the relationship he explains that she is greatly "limiting herself" and being "willingly unhealthy" because of her desire to be bigger. He requires of her to no longer pursue gaining, against her independent wishes.

Is this unfair of him, since it's her body and her right to do with it as she pleases? Is this not the same as a feeder requiring a non-gainer to gain? Or is this guy in the right for supposedly preserving her health and best interests?"


If John started drinking heavily, I would ask him to stop. I suspect if I gained weight on purpose he would ask me to stop. Clearly neither of us could make the other stop but if things got to a bad point we would withdraw from the relationship. If either of us chooses to self destruct and will not be turned away from that choice we can't expect the other to say nothing and go make a booze or burger run.


----------



## bigplaidpants

Jay West Coast said:


> Say a woman is a gainer and open about it going into a relationship. The guy, however, isn't interested by weight gain at all, but seems to resign to the "to each his own" in response to her questions on the topic. Then, once in the relationship he explains that she is greatly "limiting herself" and being "willingly unhealthy" because of her desire to be bigger. He requires of her to no longer pursue gaining, against her independent wishes.
> 
> Is this unfair of him, since it's her body and her right to do with it as she pleases? Is this not the same as a feeder requiring a non-gainer to gain? Or is this guy in the right for supposedly preserving her health and best interests?



Disclaimer #1: I've only been able to read the last 2 pages of this thread so forgive if my post is a bit misinformed.

Disclaimer #2: I don't expect anyone to be enthusiastic about the way I'm dealing with this issue here. But the same tensions seems to arise again and again around this topic. As some kind of ethicist, I want to try to tease them out.

Jay's reversal of the norms here (i.e. one leaves because of health, not ill-health; and *he* is not the feeder, etc.) is helpful. But, it doesn't get us around the underlying ethical dilemma. *As long as fat, fatness, and getting fat are considered potentially dangerous (which, by all measures we agree at some point they are), these discussions will continual perpetually.* Like a gerbil on a wheel, the wheel only stops if the gerbil gets off or dies. The issues and scenarios may change. But, in the end the positions are just going to oscillate around the same themes because the ethical norms drawn on will continue to differ. Personal rights vs. duty. They are paradoxical; they are always in tension. Let me try to make sense of what I'm saying.

Rights = "to each their own"; gat as fat as you want; it's my/your body; do what they want with it. The rights argument taken to its logical end basically says any one person can self-destruct, as long as they are of sound mind, as long as they don't infringe on the freedoms of others or cause harm to others. Our bodies are at our disposal. They are MY/YOUR private property. Some people, albeit with conflicts, ultimately fall into this camp.

Duty to care = obligation to provide care, both of oneself and/or another; refusal of care is considered abusive or neglect. Individuals, institutions, and governments as *public* entities are held to this responsiblity. The duty to care intervenes in the case of a feedee judged as abusing themselves (refusing care for their body and health) or a feeder committing abuse by submitting their feedee to situations that harm, i.e. immobility, health issues, etc. By the feeder giving up the duty to care, he is held accountable. He is giving up a universal responsibility.

In the question, "how fat is too fat" or "how much gaining is too much," ultimately the dilemma revolves around how we rights vs duty to care. This is true if we are an encourager encouraging a gainer or a gaining feeding ourselves. 

Why point all this out? Because balancing these two ethical stand points is a never ending process. Most of our religious and legal systems rest on them. *My right to get as fat as I want and my duty to care for my body (or another's body/health) are always in tension because both are universal claims. * EVERYONE has rights to do what they want. OK. But, within what limits? These limits are usually set by our duty to care. And, at some point, there is ALWAYS a duty to care. 

There are a couple of ways out of this dilemma. None of them may be vary exciting. 

First would be to come up with criteria for "health." What is a healthy desire? What is a healthy encourager/gainer relationship? What is a healthy way to be fat and gain? What is the objective criteria? The criteria would have to be something more than "to each his/her own." Lilly is often great for pointing out that what is true for many may not be true individually. If this is true, how do encouragers and gainers navigate their particular situation?

Another way out is to chose anther standpoint. For instance, a "love" ethic would ask, what does love require of me as a gainer or encourager? What would love for myself be? What would love for my partner be? 

A second ethical standpoint might be an "ecological" one which sees the health and wellbeing of a gainer or encourager intertwined with our health and wellbeing. 

Their just suggestions. But, both honor the relationship and not just ourselves independently of the other, or our public duty.

(I'm under no illusions that I've helped this discussion out any, except for maybe diluting it with more concepts. :blink: )


----------



## Jay West Coast

Perhaps I've been giving the gaining community too much credit for their fantasies. I'm biased, of course, because of knowing so many people with this kink, but I feel compelled to give it a fair shake. To me, there seems to be an equivalency question with my own sexuality: fat women. 

See, as an FA, I've had close confidants explain to me that dating BBW's is "fine as a fantasy, but its a totally destructive for real life." I've had almost the same blanket arguments layed out to me as the gainers are having layed out to them: "you're choosing a life of unhealth," "you're demonstrating a mental separation from reality," "can you distinguish between true love for your partner outside of your love for their fat?" and "if you truly love that person, you'd never accept them being fat." 

In some sense, if these arguments are right when applied to the gainers, their logically has to be a similar application to fat admiration and acceptance. If feeders and feedees aren't to actually act out their desires, then likewise I really ought to keep my dating fat women "just a fantasy" too.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Wha??? :blink: The question you posed seemed to indicate that there is an unwilling partner involved. You presented someone who said, "Well, I guess it's okay with me whatever," but then later realized it was not. That would not be the same as a guy who digs a fat chick and wants to date. I would suppose that after he was dating her and he discovered he didn't really like fat chicks after all the paralell would be the same. He's not obligated to stay in a relationship in which he is not happy. 

Or did I misunderstand again? *scratches head*



Jay West Coast said:


> Perhaps I've been giving the gaining community too much credit for their fantasies. I'm biased, of course, because of knowing so many people with this kink, but I feel compelled to give it a fair shake. To me, there seems to be an equivalency question with my own sexuality: fat women.
> 
> See, as an FA, I've had close confidants explain to me that dating BBW's is "fine as a fantasy, but its a totally destructive for real life." I've had almost the same blanket arguments layed out to me as the gainers are having layed out to them: "you're choosing a life of unhealth," "you're demonstrating a mental separation from reality," "can you distinguish between true love for your partner outside of your love for their fat?" and "if you truly love that person, you'd never accept them being fat."
> 
> In some sense, if these arguments are right when applied to the gainers, their logically has to be a similar application to fat admiration and acceptance. If feeders and feedees aren't to actually act out their desires, then likewise I really ought to keep my dating fat women "just a fantasy" too.


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## Brenda

""In some sense, if these arguments are right when applied to the gainers, their logically has to be a similar application to fat admiration and acceptance. If feeders and feedees aren't to actually act out their desires, then likewise I really ought to keep my dating fat women "just a fantasy" too.""

If you believe that the state of being fat is always a state of disease than you should keep fat women as a fantasy only. Otherwise you will either feel guilty for desiring what is unhealthy or feel you need to make your partner lose for her health's sake. Neither scenario would make for a very happy relationship IMO.


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## Jay West Coast

LillyBBBW said:


> Wha??? :blink: The question you posed seemed to indicate that there is an unwilling partner involved. You presented someone who said, "Well, I guess it's okay with me whatever," but then later realized it was not. That would not be the same as a guy who digs a fat chick and wants to date. I would suppose that after he was dating her and he discovered he didn't really like fat chicks after all the paralell would be the same. He's not obligated to stay in a relationship in which he is not happy.
> 
> Or did I misunderstand again? *scratches head*


 
LOL...sorry, I didn't mean for the two arguments to be complimentary or correlative, simply tangental in topic.

The post above is simply to ask a new question entirely: In terms of moving from fantasy to reality, if it's wrong for the above reasons for a gainer to actually gain, is it not wrong for an FA to actually date a fat woman?


----------



## AnnMarie

Jay West Coast said:


> LOL...sorry, I didn't mean for the two arguments to be complimentary or correlative, simply tangental in topic.
> 
> The post above is simply to ask a new question entirely: In terms of moving from fantasy to reality, if it's wrong for the above reasons for a gainer to actually gain, is it not wrong for an FA to actually date a fat woman?



I've heard this line of thought before, and while I understand the process, I don't agree with it. 

I am going to be fat regardless of any FA being present in my life. I'm a fat girl, always been fat, always going to be fat.... don't stay fat for the FA dating pool (that would be the dumbest idea known to man, losing weight could only improve my dating life just by sheer "odds" games). 

So, while the feeder/feedee thing can be debated about supporting/encouraging a "healthier" life into an unhealthier one... for someone like me, the fat girls who grew this way naturally over time, genetics, with no deliberate gains/changes, etc... we've been this way all along. For us to not be appreciated/admired/dated by the men who have a "natural" preference for us would be sad and tragic on both sides.


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## MisticalMisty

LillyBBBW said:


> I wouldn't leave unannounced though, I would at least take the moment to say, "We need to talk." If the person isn't at least open to hear you out that's a sign that maybe it's time to walk. They may have rights but you have them too and if you don't want to put up with something you certainly don't have to. But you should at least speak up and let the person know how you feel.



OH exactly...I agree..that a discussion needs to happen..but if he's at this point..then the relationship will probably end..


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## ripley

Jack Skellington said:


> Don't drag me back into the conversation unless you want me to say things you don't want to hear.



I want to hear what you have to say, Jack. There is room here for everyone's opinions.


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## LillyBBBW

Jay West Coast said:


> LOL...sorry, I didn't mean for the two arguments to be complimentary or correlative, simply tangental in topic.
> 
> The post above is simply to ask a new question entirely: In terms of moving from fantasy to reality, if it's wrong for the above reasons for a gainer to actually gain, is it not wrong for an FA to actually date a fat woman?



Ahhhh, so this is under the guise that by dating a fat woman you are somehow choosing a path of destruction that will eventually lead to your own peril. Say, you can't get promoted at work 'cause your wife is fat. You'll get harassed 'cause your wife is fat. For the sake of your future and standing in the community bla bla bla you should avoid fat people at all costs if you know what's good for you. In essence you desire something that will place limits upon your 'mobility' in the fast paced world of the movers and shakers therefore you should resist this desire and seek counseling immediately. You must be insane to want this. 

By limiting another's freedom to choose their poison we in a sense limit our own freedom to do the same via the same argument.


----------



## Waxwing

Brenda said:


> If John started drinking heavily, I would ask him to stop. I suspect if I gained weight on purpose he would ask me to stop. Clearly neither of us could make the other stop but if things got to a bad point we would withdraw from the relationship. If either of us chooses to self destruct and will not be turned away from that choice we can't expect the other to say nothing and go make a booze or burger run.



But wouldn't your asking him to stop be motivated by the fact that his drinking could also be detrimental to you? If someone is beginning to drink heavily, his personality may be compromised. He could become moody, or violent, or just slurringly maudlin.

My point is that gaining, in theory, only has the potential to hurt the one doing the gaining. It's unlikely that they'll get food drunk and break things.


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## LillyBBBW

It can sorta. If you're always the one to be the designated driver. You have to carry them to the car, slip them out of their clothes, clean up after them, explain to angry employers why your mate is missing work, etc. It can become tedious having to keep up after a person who is acting recklessly. 

For a gainer, once that person has limited mobility their mate or family members are the brawn for almost everything and if they didn't sign on for something like that it can get old pretty fast. If someone becomes sick through no fault of their own that's one thing but if you have to accommodate someone who willfully put themselves in a positon to be dependent it can make you pretty salty.




Waxwing said:


> But wouldn't your asking him to stop be motivated by the fact that his drinking could also be detrimental to you? If someone is beginning to drink heavily, his personality may be compromised. He could become moody, or violent, or just slurringly maudlin.
> 
> My point is that gaining, in theory, only has the potential to hurt the one doing the gaining. It's unlikely that they'll get food drunk and break things.


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## Waxwing

That's true. I didn't consider all the nursemaid activities you would need to perform in either case.


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## LillyBBBW

Waxwing said:


> That's true. I didn't consider all the nursemaid activities you would need to perform in either case.



I grew up in a family of alcoholics and wanton wastrels so my hackles are always raised on this kind of thing.


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## Green Eyed Fairy

Waxwing said:


> But wouldn't your asking him to stop be motivated by the fact that his drinking could also be detrimental to you? If someone is beginning to drink heavily, his personality may be compromised. He could become moody, or violent, or just slurringly maudlin.
> 
> My point is that gaining, in theory, only has the potential to hurt the one doing the gaining. It's unlikely that they'll get food drunk and break things.



But wouldn't someone immobile be dependent on you and thus affecting your lifestyle too? I see why you saw it as different but the analogies are the same if you compare them to long and short run effects. Any health problems that arise in the future from excess weight will also affect both partners in a relationship. That's why people get to step in and say something- it's not just one life affected.



***Alcoholism does long term damage but you can see it's effects from early on too- unlike the food.



***********oh sorry, just read back after first answering this post and see that you and Lilly covered it


----------



## Waxwing

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> But wouldn't someone immobile be dependent on you and thus affecting your lifestyle too? I see why you saw it as different but the analogies are the same if you compare them to long and short run effects. Any health problems that arise in the future from excess weight will also affect both partners in a relationship. That's why people get to step in and say something- it's not just one life affected.
> 
> 
> 
> ***Alcoholism does long term damage but you can see it's effects from early on too- unlike the food.
> 
> 
> 
> ***********oh sorry, just read back after first answering this post and see that you and Lilly covered it



I like the mid-post game of catch-up. I do that all the time. You see that it's been covered but at that point, dammit, you typed all that stuff!


----------



## Lilbexter

I hope it's alright that i'm just responding to the original question...

I guess I have always felt that weight gain can be very harmful. Beyond anything physical, it can emotionally scar you, and I believe that is the most traumatizing aspect of it. I think about the prospect of weight gain constantly, and though it intrigues me and I find it highly erotic, I find too many cons to actually engage in gaining myself. Being that it is taboo to be immobile or very large, I can only imagine how one may feel ostricised and cut off from the world. That to me, is the most damaging part of being a feedee. I guess I just can't see finding happiness in lying in a bed all day. But to be diplomatic, I suppose that's a personal matter.
Perhaps my apprehension stems from my sensitivity which causes me to over-think everything. I guess what I'm trying to verbalize is the prospect of depleting ones image of themselves, both mind and body. I truly believe that beauty and worth comes in all sizes, but it's important that one believes that of themselves, and getting to the point where you truly are unable to function would, in my opinion, put a damper on your self worth.


----------



## speakeasy

It's actually really cool to see women talking about their weight gain fantasies. I'm pretty sure I'm not the feeder type, but I still suffer from guilt trips because the idea of a woman being fed and gaining weight until she's immobile does turn me on, and I can't deny it. It's not that I think feeding is inherently bad, but as we've seen, some consider it pretty degrading. I guess that sometimes I feel bad that what's debilitating for someone else can be arousing for me. 
Does anyone get what I'm trying to say here?


----------



## alienlanes

speakeasy said:


> It's actually really cool to see women talking about their weight gain fantasies. I'm pretty sure I'm not the feeder type, but I still suffer from guilt trips because the idea of a woman being fed and gaining weight until she's immobile does turn me on, and I can't deny it. It's not that I think feeding is inherently bad, but as we've seen, some consider it pretty degrading. I guess that sometimes I feel bad that what's debilitating for someone else can be arousing for me.
> Does anyone get what I'm trying to say here?



Yeah, I understand exactly how you feel. I've been saying throughout this thread that people should learn not to be ashamed of their kinks, but sometimes I feel like I'm saying it so often because I'm the one who really needs to be convinced that it's OK.

You're not alone. I bet that just about everyone with WG fantasies has feelings like this. Speaking solely for myself, I know that I spent most of adolescence desperately wishing that I could just be normal.

I've come to enjoy and take pride in my FA-ism. Being an FA is such an integral part of who I am, and has been such a decisive influence on my personal growth, that I wouldn't change it even if I could. But if I could rub the magic lantern and get rid of being a gainer/encourager? I'm not sure that I wouldn't.

But it's not going to happen. This thing of ours is wired so deeply into my primitive nervous system that I doubt anything less than a lobotomy could make it go away .

All I can do is learn to deal with it in a healthy and responsible way, just like I've learned to deal with my other psychological quirks. Would I love to be in a relationship with a genuine gainer? Of course. But realistically? The woman who shares the fetish _and_ fits my picky and esoteric romantic standards may not be out there. 

The brain, as the saying goes, is the biggest sexual organ. If she's a charming SSBBW who's not totally repulsed by the fantasy, our overactive imaginations will take care of the rest -- all she really needs to do is whisper seductively over dessert once in a while. And in return I'll do whatever freaky shit turns _her_ on, even if she wants to dress up like Napoleon, spray me with ketchup, and whack my ass with a yardstick. Sometimes love means making sacrifices.


----------



## LillyBBBW

SlackerFA said:


> Yeah, I understand exactly how you feel. I've been saying throughout this thread that people should learn not to be ashamed of their kinks, but sometimes I feel like I'm saying it so often because I'm the one who really needs to be convinced that it's OK.
> 
> You're not alone. I bet that just about everyone with WG fantasies has feelings like this. Speaking solely for myself, I know that I spent most of adolescence desperately wishing that I could just be normal.
> 
> I've come to enjoy and take pride in my FA-ism. Being an FA is such an integral part of who I am, and has been such a decisive influence on my personal growth, that I wouldn't change it even if I could. But if I could rub the magic lantern and get rid of being a gainer/encourager? I'm not sure that I wouldn't.
> 
> But it's not going to happen. This thing of ours is wired so deeply into my primitive nervous system that I doubt anything less than a lobotomy could make it go away .
> 
> All I can do is learn to deal with it in a healthy and responsible way, just like I've learned to deal with my other psychological quirks. Would I love to be in a relationship with a genuine gainer? Of course. But realistically? The woman who shares the fetish _and_ fits my picky and esoteric romantic standards may not be out there.
> 
> The brain, as the saying goes, is the biggest sexual organ. If she's a charming SSBBW who's not totally repulsed by the fantasy, our overactive imaginations will take care of the rest -- all she really needs to do is whisper seductively over dessert once in a while. And in return I'll do whatever freaky shit turns _her_ on, even if she wants to dress up like Napoleon, spray me with ketchup, and whack my ass with a yardstick. Sometimes love means making sacrifices.



Damn. I still can't rep you. 

I think the whole adolescent realization was totally lost on me because there really wasn't any yearning ache for something I couldn't have. I already had what I wanted, it wasn't an outgoing desire. To me it _was_ normal, if that makes any sense. I appreciated my body, I appreciated the beauty of others as well - I just wasn't aware that anyone else liked my body as much as I did. Any embarrassment was just general embarrassment from the skinny loving public or temporarily wanting to be the cute cheerleader who gets to shop at cute stores and be at the top of the pyramid but I was far too narcissistic and too much of a bully for it to be as damaging to me as it could have been. I never had this wonder, "Hmm, why do I like my body?" As far as I was concerned loving my gaining body was natural and it worked to my advantage so I didn't complain or give it much thought. 

I am turned on by gaining and such but it is merely a small part of the whole of what I am. I like other stuff too. I'd liken it to my love for cheeseburgers! I love them :eat2: but I don't want to have cheeseburgers EVERY NIGHT with every meal. I like other foods too. My eyes light up at the thought of one, however if I'm with someone who *needs* to have cheeseburgers at every meal every day and they leave sizzling messages by email that list the ingredients, that's a bit over the top for me. Sometimes I perceive that for some encouragers it's a much bigger deal than it is for me which makes me a little nervous at times.


----------



## bigplaidpants

speakeasy said:


> It's actually really cool to see women talking about their weight gain fantasies. I'm pretty sure I'm not the feeder type, but I still suffer from guilt trips because the idea of a woman being fed and gaining weight until she's immobile does turn me on, and I can't deny it. It's not that I think feeding is inherently bad, but as we've seen, some consider it pretty degrading. I guess that sometimes I feel bad that what's debilitating for someone else can be arousing for me.
> Does anyone get what I'm trying to say here?





SlackerFA said:


> Yeah, I understand exactly how you feel. I've been saying throughout this thread that people should learn not to be ashamed of their kinks, but sometimes I feel like I'm saying it so often because I'm the one who really needs to be convinced that it's OK.
> 
> You're not alone. I bet that just about everyone with WG fantasies has feelings like this. Speaking solely for myself, I know that I spent most of adolescence desperately wishing that I could just be normal.
> 
> I've come to enjoy and take pride in my FA-ism. Being an FA is such an integral part of who I am, and has been such a decisive influence on my personal growth, that I wouldn't change it even if I could. But if I could rub the magic lantern and get rid of being a gainer/encourager? I'm not sure that I wouldn't.
> 
> But it's not going to happen. This thing of ours is wired so deeply into my primitive nervous system that I doubt anything less than a lobotomy could make it go away .
> 
> All I can do is learn to deal with it in a healthy and responsible way, just like I've learned to deal with my other psychological quirks. Would I love to be in a relationship with a genuine gainer? Of course. But realistically? The woman who shares the fetish _and_ fits my picky and esoteric romantic standards may not be out there.
> 
> The brain, as the saying goes, is the biggest sexual organ. If she's a charming SSBBW who's not totally repulsed by the fantasy, our overactive imaginations will take care of the rest -- all she really needs to do is whisper seductively over dessert once in a while. And in return I'll do whatever freaky shit turns _her_ on, even if she wants to dress up like Napoleon, spray me with ketchup, and whack my ass with a yardstick. Sometimes love means making sacrifices.



Guys, this is really well said. I resonate particularly with Slacker's longer post, here. Bein' a FA who loves the taboo requires some emotional work and a little (sometimes alot) of emotional management. And Slacker's right, it's more than just about the fetish. Relationships don't live on fetish alone. There's alot to be said about someone who simply stands by you, loves your kinks, and dapples in them.

Lilly, I'm not gushing. I simply always find your attitude and forthcoming way about fat, food, and pleasure so refreshing. You're reasoned and seasoned. 

I've said it before: I think being a man and a FA comes with its own traps. Sometimes some of us get targeted for our fat/food/gaining kinks because its read as predatory. I'm not say this isn't for good reason. But, it adds a layer of anxiousness and pressure to work through. I talk a little about that here.

Anyway, kudo's to all of you. Cheesecake, bear hugs, and beer steins raised in festive clamour. "Hear, Hear!"


----------



## alienlanes

LillyBBBW said:


> Damn. I still can't rep you.
> 
> I think the whole adolescent realization was totally lost on me because there really wasn't any yearning ache for something I couldn't have. I already had what I wanted, it wasn't an outgoing desire. To me it _was_ normal, if that makes any sense. I appreciated my body, I appreciated the beauty of others as well - I just wasn't aware that anyone else liked my body as much as I did. Any embarrassment was just general embarrassment from the skinny loving public or temporarily wanting to be the cute cheerleader who gets to shop at cute stores and be at the top of the pyramid but I was far too narcissistic and too much of a bully for it to be as damaging to me as it could have been. I never had this wonder, "Hmm, why do I like my body?" As far as I was concerned loving my gaining body was natural and it worked to my advantage so I didn't complain or give it much thought.
> 
> I am turned on by gaining and such but it is merely a small part of the whole of what I am. I like other stuff too. I'd liken it to my love for cheeseburgers! I love them :eat2: but I don't want to have cheeseburgers EVERY NIGHT with every meal. I like other foods too. My eyes light up at the thought of one, however if I'm with someone who *needs* to have cheeseburgers at every meal every day and they leave sizzling messages by email that list the ingredients, that's a bit over the top for me. Sometimes I perceive that for some encouragers it's a much bigger deal than it is for me which makes me a little nervous at times.



Thanks, Lilly. I still can't rep you either . 

As I've said before, I think part of the problem with the online encourager community is that most of the guys repress their encouraging _and_ their FA-ism in their everyday lives, so when they meet a female gainer who's not an obvious fake, all gates open at once and the fantasy comes flooding out in a scary torrent.

Although I wonder if there are guys who get off on the feeding and the gain without actually being sexually attracted to a fat partner. I can't even imagine that, myself, but I guess it's kinda like Heather's being turned on by the gaining but not by the eating, which I find equally incomprehensible . I have no idea what I'd say to a guy in that situation -- I'm an FA first and an encourager second, so I can think of plenty of fun things to do with an SSBBW that don't involve watching her eat . 

And I don't get why guys persist in being creepy after someone tells them off. I mean, c'mon, guys, shouldn't it be obvious that if she doesn't _like_ you she's not gonna hook up with you? Jeesh, my gender can be dense sometimes .


----------



## ripley

SlackerFA said:


> The brain, as the saying goes, is the biggest sexual organ. If she's a charming SSBBW who's not totally repulsed by the fantasy, our overactive imaginations will take care of the rest -- all she really needs to do is whisper seductively over dessert once in a while. And in return I'll do whatever freaky shit turns _her_ on, even if she wants to dress up like Napoleon, spray me with ketchup, and whack my ass with a yardstick. Sometimes love means making sacrifices.




PM me right now. 

Just kidding, but great post. What I've found is that the guys who are feeders who approach me often have little interests in my fantasies and what turns me on...they're so very driven by their own fantasies if they feel like they get a foot in the door they run you over rushing in.




SlackerFA said:


> Although I wonder if there are guys who get off on the feeding and the gain without actually being sexually attracted to a fat partner. I can't even imagine that, myself, but I guess it's kinda like Heather's being turned on by the gaining but not by the eating, which I find equally incomprehensible . I have no idea what I'd say to a guy in that situation -- I'm an FA first and an encourager second, so I can think of plenty of fun things to do with an SSBBW that don't involve watching her eat .



Okay, now I'm not kidding. PM me, mmkay? 


This is an interesting point, and something that kind of bothers me. I'm a SSBBW already. If they were FAs it would seem like I've got enough fat to admire as is, wouldn't it? The fact is that a woman who is already say...400 lbs. has no interest to a gain admirer unless she'll gain to 500 or something...but if I was 250 and said I'd gain to 400 it would drive them wild. It doesn't seem to be the fact of how large she already is, but how large she'll expand to be as they watch.


----------



## Brenda

"The fact is that a woman who is already say...400 lbs. has no interest to a gain admirer unless she'll gain to 500 or something...but if I was 250 and said I'd gain to 400 it would drive them wild. It doesn't seem to be the fact of how large she already is, but how large she'll expand to be as they watch."

Herein lies the basic problem IMO Once you move this fantasy into real life situations it seems that in order for it to continue to be satisfying the feedee would have to continue to gain. Once she stops it is a buzz kill. If she doesn't stop her health is jeopardized at some point.

So you meet the feeder of your dreams and over three years you gain to 400lbs. This is the goal you both agreed upon but once you are there you lose his interest. He did not really want a 400 lb woman, he wanted a woman who gains and you are no longer her. So what than? Either you continue to gain to keep his interest or he feels unfulfilled. Can't see this as a winning situation.

I also found it very interesting that Heather mentioned she thought she would feel fat enough at 300lbs, but instead found she did not. What if it never is enough? That the fantasy just can't be fulfilled? 

Brenda


----------



## SocialbFly

interesting post Brenda, i think that the question is one only answered when you reach the spot, and for some, i guess the thrill must continue....

i can't say i have ever tried to gain, my body took care of itself that way already, but i sure have to admit that i think often when i come here about the people who are so young, and so beautiful......gaining...and i wonder, how they will feel at my age...and i am always left with a profound sadness...everyone i know that is my age and ssfat...EVERYONE has some degree of issues with mobility and pain...

I don't know about you all, but i never asked for or thought i would get....that....


----------



## Waxwing

SlackerFA said:


> As I've said before, I think part of the problem with the online encourager community is that most of the guys repress their encouraging _and_ their FA-ism in their everyday lives, so when they meet a female gainer who's not an obvious fake, all gates open at once and the fantasy comes flooding out in a scary torrent.


 
This is such a great point. If you spend your life suppressing what you know to be your real attraction and your real desires, the first time you get a chance to let it out you're suddenly all atwitter totally overwhelmed by the newness of being able to even talk about it. And really, who wouldn't be that way? It doesn't mean that you're always a slobbering maniac.  

It's analogous to the kid who grows up ugly (subjective, but you know what i mean), and doesn't even approach others all through school. When other people are dating, she isn't. But she gets to college, and suddenly she's hot, and ohmygodwow starts going out and "expressing" herself, ifyouknowwhatimeanandithinkthatyoudo. She wants to try everything and is intense and passionate in her newfound freedom. And maybe that comes across a little strongly but HAVE YOU SEEN what you can do OH MY GOD ! WOW everything is amazing and sexy!! 

Eventually that initial burst of exploration relaxes, and you're able to settle in to who you are and explore your sexuality comfortably and without self-judgment. 

I mean, not that I would know anything about growing up like that. I just pulled that example out of the air.


----------



## stan_der_man

SocialbFly said:


> interesting post Brenda, i think that the question is one only answered when you reach the spot, and for some, i guess the thrill must continue....
> 
> i can't say i have ever tried to gain, my body took care of itself that way already, but i sure have to admit that i think often when i come here about the people who are so young, and so beautiful......gaining...and i wonder, how they will feel at my age...and i am always left with a profound sadness...everyone i know that is my age and ssfat...EVERYONE has some degree of issues with mobility and pain...
> 
> I don't know about you all, but i never asked for or thought i would get....that....



Slightly off topic, but related to what you are saying SocialbFly... I've always wanted to start a thread on this subject, but never quite knew how to approach it...

I've always wondered what the "naturally fat" people (the ones who gained weight naturally, presumably against their desire to do so...) think of the people who are making a conscious choice to gain weight (or engage in having a partner gain weight...) Especially the people who grew to a point where they have physical discomfort. I can see them wondering why someone would want to purposely gain weight and risk the mobility issues.

I myself can relate to thin(er) people who want to gain weight, maybe for erotic purposes; maybe like myself so I'm not so "boney" in appearance. I have never been very large (I'm 190ish at the moment), I have the presumption that I can loose the weight if I get to a point where I begin having health problems (but as LillyBBBW said earlier... once you have health problems, it may be too late...) I've found as a FA that "naturally fat" people (as defined above) tend to treat thin FAs with more suspicion, and seem to question their motives more quickly than a fat (or plump) FA.

I just wonder if there is a dynamic here where the "naturally fat" people are generally the ones against "feeders" because of experiences (or fears) that they have being fat, and maybe not being able to control their weight? Or if there is naiveté on the part of the thinner people about the possible consequences of making themselves fat (or a perception of naiveté by the "naturally fat" people upon the thin gainers).

I have been told a few times by fat people that I "don't know what it's like being fat!". I like to think that I do, but maybe I don't?

Stan


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## manloverssbbw

Iam new user on dimensions i live in switzerland and not ssbbw  

the bbw and ssbbw this very beautiful continue is supersize sorry for my english

Iam fa feedee and foodee iam fan of fat i like really

and the food its sensual 

its my first conversation:bow: so have nice day at all 

and bigger is better :eat1: always forever

cyril


----------



## waldo

LillyBBBW said:


> Ahhhh, so this is under the guise that by dating a fat woman you are somehow choosing a path of destruction that will eventually lead to your own peril. Say, you can't get promoted at work 'cause your wife is fat. You'll get harassed 'cause your wife is fat. For the sake of your future and standing in the community bla bla bla you should avoid fat people at all costs if you know what's good for you. In essence you desire something that will place limits upon your 'mobility' in the fast paced world of the movers and shakers therefore you should resist this desire and seek counseling immediately. You must be insane to want this.
> 
> By limiting another's freedom to choose their poison we in a sense limit our own freedom to do the same via the same argument.



I think the point Jay made is very important. In today's society, acts such as smoking and unhealthy eating are becoming more and more socially unacceptable as the cost of medical care become higher and the burden on the taxpayers increases So, more and more, people resent those who are perceived as having brought on their ill health by irresponsible actions. And unfortunately, the average person still perceives fat people as being at least partially responsible for their size and resultant health problems that may be related to it. The FA who professes his desire to be with a very fat person is then opened up to similar criticism/judgement regarding the practical issues around this reality. So the judgement of the FA by others in general society is very much analogous to the judgement of the feeders that goes on in this community. Jay has nailed it.


----------



## waldo

Lilbexter said:


> I hope it's alright that i'm just responding to the original question...
> 
> I guess I have always felt that weight gain can be very harmful. Beyond anything physical, it can emotionally scar you, and I believe that is the most traumatizing aspect of it. I think about the prospect of weight gain constantly, and though it intrigues me and I find it highly erotic, I find too many cons to actually engage in gaining myself. Being that it is taboo to be immobile or very large, I can only imagine how one may feel ostricised and cut off from the world. That to me, is the most damaging part of being a feedee. I guess I just can't see finding happiness in lying in a bed all day. But to be diplomatic, I suppose that's a personal matter.
> Perhaps my apprehension stems from my sensitivity which causes me to over-think everything. I guess what I'm trying to verbalize is the prospect of depleting ones image of themselves, both mind and body. I truly believe that beauty and worth comes in all sizes, but it's important that one believes that of themselves, and getting to the point where you truly are unable to function would, in my opinion, put a damper on your self worth.



One thing to remember is that when talking about 'immobility' there are varying degrees and there are various ways of dealing with limitations that may be caused by extreme weight. Just because someone is 'immobile' doesn't mean they will necessarily be bedbound. It could be someone who is fat enough that they have trouble walking very far so uses a scooter or wheelchair to get around. But in that case the individual will have to put up with the response of others to them when out in public, which as has been discussed here and other places, can be very difficult and only gets worse as a person gets bigger. I suppose, many people in that situation may become homebound by choice not wanting to have to deal with the cruelty of society anymore.


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## alienlanes

Waxwing said:


> It's analogous to the kid who grows up ugly (subjective, but you know what i mean), and doesn't even approach others all through school. When other people are dating, she isn't. But she gets to college, and suddenly she's hot, and ohmygodwow starts going out and "expressing" herself, ifyouknowwhatimeanandithinkthatyoudo. She wants to try everything and is intense and passionate in her newfound freedom. And maybe that comes across a little strongly but HAVE YOU SEEN what you can do OH MY GOD ! WOW everything is amazing and sexy!!



Or like the FA who finally works up the nerve to go to his first BBW dance.

Not that _I'm_ thinking of anyone specific, either...


----------



## LillyBBBW

Waxwing said:


> This is such a great point. If you spend your life suppressing what you know to be your real attraction and your real desires, the first time you get a chance to let it out you're suddenly all atwitter totally overwhelmed by the newness of being able to even talk about it. And really, who wouldn't be that way? It doesn't mean that you're always a slobbering maniac.
> 
> It's analogous to the kid who grows up ugly (subjective, but you know what i mean), and doesn't even approach others all through school. When other people are dating, she isn't. But she gets to college, and suddenly she's hot, and ohmygodwow starts going out and "expressing" herself, ifyouknowwhatimeanandithinkthatyoudo. She wants to try everything and is intense and passionate in her newfound freedom. And maybe that comes across a little strongly but HAVE YOU SEEN what you can do OH MY GOD ! WOW everything is amazing and sexy!!
> 
> Eventually that initial burst of exploration relaxes, and you're able to settle in to who you are and explore your sexuality comfortably and without self-judgment.
> 
> I mean, not that I would know anything about growing up like that. I just pulled that example out of the air.



I was similar to that when I first started going to bbw dances. I tried the promiscuous thing and it went over like a lead balloon, just not me. But I had the most impressive collecton of see through, short, tight clothes, high heels, glitter spray, false eyelashes and funky hats and wigs anywhere. It was like RuPaul threw out all her old clothes and platforms and they all landed in my suitcase. I just wanted to have fun being The Diva and it *was* fun. I dunno what happend though, I seem to have run out of gas now. But I was all about the dances and making a grand entrance at each one in a new outfit. Looking back now I must have been obnoxious.


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## Waxwing

LillyBBBW said:


> I was similar to that when I first started going to bbw dances. I tried the promiscuous thing and it went over like a lead balloon, just not me. But I had the most impressive collecton of see through, short, tight clothes, high heels, glitter spray, false eyelashes and funky hats and wigs anywhere. It was like RuPaul threw out all her old clothes and platforms and they all landed in my suitcase. I just wanted to have fun being The Diva and it *was* fun. I dunno what happend though, I seem to have run out of gas now. But I was all about the dances and making a grand entrance at each one in a new outfit. Looking back now I must have been obnoxious.



I bet you were awesome!


----------



## imfree

Waxwing said:


> I bet you were awesome!


 I agree, I always thought the spirited gals were the best.


----------



## Jay West Coast

waldo said:


> I think the point Jay made is very important. In today's society, acts such as smoking and unhealthy eating are becoming more and more socially unacceptable as the cost of medical care become higher and the burden on the taxpayers increases So, more and more, people resent those who are perceived as having brought on their ill health by irresponsible actions. And unfortunately, the average person still perceives fat people as being at least partially responsible for their size and resultant health problems that may be related to it. The FA who professes his desire to be with a very fat person is then opened up to similar criticism/judgement regarding the practical issues around this reality. So the judgement of the FA by others in general society is very much analogous to the judgement of the feeders that goes on in this community. Jay has nailed it.


 

Thanks Waldo! 

Honestly, I was indirectly alluding to the social consequences that arise for both FA's and feedees to act out their desires, but there is another point I was trying more directly to make that I left underdeveloped that is central to my point. 

Gaining, like dating fat women, is totally irrational. In truth, sexuality is the overriding variable in both situations. In other words, if I didn't have a sexual wiring, would I date fat women because it was more practical? No, I doubt it. Honestly, there are so many "reasons" why it is not a good idea to seek out a fat partner. However, I DO date fat women. Why? Because it sends all the right chemicals to my brain when I see or touch a fat woman. All of the sudden my sexuality makes the "illogical" seem _very_ logical. *chuckles* 

Let's look at a commonly accepted example. Truthfully, this sexuality-overriding-logic HAS to be why women date men. Look at us. There many good reasons to date men. We're obnoxious, gross, loud, brutish, less intelligent, spend money on expensive toys and we start lots of wars. We're really rather expensive to keep around just for opening jars of pickles. With modern advances in cloning and artificial sperm, it only makes _sense_ for women to invent a mechanical pickle jar-opener and stay as far away from men as possible. But they don't. Why? That thing that screws up "logic" called sexuality. *pauses to thank the heavens* 

So, returning to my primary point, I don't date fat women because it's the strategically logical life decision. I date them because I love it. It stimulates me, it makes me feel like I'm doing what I was designed to do. I want to do it within the most calculated and considerate way possible, totally thoughtful of health, wealth, and freedom, but fully live out the blessing of my sexuality nonetheless. 

Likewise, if I see it fair to make a decision to date fat women for sexual reasons--overriding the trusted advice that I'm choosing "unhealth over health"--then how can I see it fair to claim a woman shouldn't gain weight for her own sexual reasons? Especially if she is doing it in a way carefully conscientious of her own health and freedom, how can I tell her she's perverse because--being that it doesn't turn _me_ on--this "doesn't seem to make any _sense_ to me?" 

So, thus my thoughts and self reflections.


----------



## Lilbexter

In response to Jay and Waldo...

I completely agree with you in terms of "it just feels right". In no way am I knocking the preference, or how it makes you feel...It makes me feel the same way, BELIEVE me, lol. I definitely advocate for happiness. Thus, I suppose that's where my apprehension appears; I question how happy one can really be when their mobility is truly compromised. I'm not talking about getting out of breath or not wanting to walk for long periods of time, I'm talking about when your stuck in your home, reliant on someone else for one reason or another. That, to me, is the "immobility" that I fear is an end that will not justify the means. 
I think experimenting with food in sexual ways can be really arousing, as can be weight gain. I just don't know about it when it gets to a certain point of no return...


----------



## waldo

Lilbexter said:


> In response to Jay and Waldo...
> 
> I completely agree with you in terms of "it just feels right". In no way am I knocking the preference, or how it makes you feel...It makes me feel the same way, BELIEVE me, lol. I definitely advocate for happiness. Thus, I suppose that's where my apprehension appears; I question how happy one can really be when their mobility is truly compromised. I'm not talking about getting out of breath or not wanting to walk for long periods of time, I'm talking about when your stuck in your home, reliant on someone else for one reason or another. That, to me, is the "immobility" that I fear is an end that will not justify the means.
> I think experimenting with food in sexual ways can be really arousing, as can be weight gain. I just don't know about it when it gets to a certain point of no return...



I believe that the fact that 'it just feels right or natural' for FAs to be with a fat partner, means it is not a preference but an inborn orientation. Why make this distinction, you ask. Because, as Jay pointed out, it seems irrational to be an FA, and the term preference to me suggests a conscious decision to choose one path over another. The only choice an FA really faces is to follow his/her natural inclination or to repress those desires and conform to society. This has been discussed on this board before, but I feel it is important enough that it bears repeating.

As far as the immobility versus limited mobility issue, what I was trying to describe was someone who cannot walk for more than a few feet at a time as opposed to not wanting to do so. Such a person is not homebound but faces significant limitations somewhat like a paraplegic might. However, the fat person is likely to meet with scorn from society while the paraplegic will generally receive sympathy (which could be perceived by said paraplegic as pity and lead to its own issues).

There isn't necessarily a 'point of no return' with weight gain, but the concern is the vicious cycle of reduced mobility, leading to reduced calorie usage, leading to potential for increased fat storage, further reduced mobility, etc. And there is certainly no doubt that for the large majority of people getting the weight off, and more importantly keeping the weight off long term, is a significant challenge that should not be underestimated. .


----------



## LillyBBBW

I typed out a great response to this and then accidentally hit the BACK button and lost it all.  I HATE when that happens. I got so mad I just said f*%k it, I quit. I'm going to try again today but trust me, yesterday's response was way better - I coulda got an award. 



Brenda said:


> "The fact is that a woman who is already say...400 lbs. has no interest to a gain admirer unless she'll gain to 500 or something...but if I was 250 and said I'd gain to 400 it would drive them wild. It doesn't seem to be the fact of how large she already is, but how large she'll expand to be as they watch."
> 
> Herein lies the basic problem IMO Once you move this fantasy into real life situations it seems that in order for it to continue to be satisfying the feedee would have to continue to gain. Once she stops it is a buzz kill. If she doesn't stop her health is jeopardized at some point.
> 
> So you meet the feeder of your dreams and over three years you gain to 400lbs. This is the goal you both agreed upon but once you are there you lose his interest. He did not really want a 400 lb woman, he wanted a woman who gains and you are no longer her. So what than? Either you continue to gain to keep his interest or he feels unfulfilled. Can't see this as a winning situation.



Love is a many splendered thing. I've seen people stay with lovers who drank, ones who beat on them, ones who cheat on them and one's who did all three. It's not healthy and I don't recommend it but love will make you do things you never thought you'd do. You'll put up with crap you swore on your soul you would NEVER put up with I don't care how big and bad you think you are. As for the rabid tube swinging greeder feeders I suspect that they will do whatever it is they have to do to preserve the life of the person they love and can't live without, I don't care if she dwindles down to 114 pounds. He'll bug the hell out of you in chat but he's not leaving his wife and he's not going to touch her with a ten foot tube. 

As for the others, if that guy leaves it would be the best thing that ever happened to that woman even if she's covered in head to toe bedsores and can't even reach back and scratch her own ass. Good riddance to him. With him gone she is forced to seek help. Those are the times you read the blurbs in the paper about some woman being removed from her home through a hole in the wall and taken by tractor to a hospital. As awful and disturbing as that sounds these incidents are rare which is both a blessing and a curse. There are barely any facilities in place to help someone like this and no place feels the need to even plan for it because it is so, so rare. It's not worth the expense and would be fiscally irresponsible with so many other things a city/state needs to put their attention on. Even the worst case scenario of needing that is better than having a greeder feeder bent on feeding stay. Unfortunately the situation will go on till they pull the sheet over his victim's head and call the time of death.



Brenda said:


> I also found it very interesting that Heather mentioned she thought she would feel fat enough at 300lbs, but instead found she did not. What if it never is enough? That the fantasy just can't be fulfilled?
> 
> Brenda



I don't have an abundance of mirrors in my apartment. I have one cheapo full length on the back of my bedroom door that I look in quickly before I head out, otherwise I'm not up on things. I know I've gained weight through natural causes but never really gave it much of a look. Every now and then though I will stay in a hotel that has a closet with sliding glass mirrored doors by the bed. I recall sitting there in front of one and being mesmerized. I *could not* take my eyes away. I had a roommate with me and was trying not to appear like a crazed self absorbed vanity freak but I couldn't help it. I kept looking at my shoulders, my cleavage, my calves, my thighs and belly. I wanted to try stuff on, change positions on the bed. I loved the way everything bounced around whenever I struggled to change position on the bed and to me it looked so soft. I was nearly giddy. To me I looked radiant, healthy, full of life - my skin was pristine and glowing. I was flexing my toes and watching how the muscles contracted in my lower legs and seeing how the fat tightened and dimpled in my upper thighs. I was loving the changes and where everything had gone and mildly wondering.... what if? 

I'm not an active gainer and my desires are mild compared to many others but even I was thinking about more. One day someone may say, "Lilly, you've got one foot in the grave and another on a banana peel. You better have your breasts removed/stomach stapled/ass plugged up/teeth yanked out or you're a gonner." I suppose I will do what I have to do but I'll still lose my sense of propriety if I pass by a mirror and see my ass has gotten bigger or my falsies make me look like a whole person again. There's nothing I can do about it. I'm guessing that I will be wired this way till the day they pull the sheet over my head.


----------



## EtobicokeFA

LillyBBBW said:


> I typed out a great response to this and then accidentally hit the BACK button and lost it all.  I HATE when that happens. I got so mad I just said f*%k it, I quit. I'm going to try again today but trust me, yesterday's response was way better - I coulda got an award.
> 
> 
> 
> Love is a many splendered thing. I've seen people stay with lovers who drank, ones who beat on them, ones who cheat on them and one's who did all three. It's not healthy and I don't recommend it but love will make you do things you never thought you'd do. You'll put up with crap you swore on your soul you would NEVER put up with I don't care how big and bad you think you are. As for the rabid tube swinging greeder feeders I suspect that they will do whatever it is they have to do to preserve the life of the person they love and can't live without, I don't care if she dwindles down to 114 pounds. He'll bug the hell out of you in chat but he's not leaving his wife and he's not going to touch her with a ten foot tube.
> 
> As for the others, if that guy leaves it would be the best thing that ever happened to that woman even if she's covered in head to toe bedsores and can't even reach back and scratch her own ass. Good riddance to him. With him gone she is forced to seek help. Those are the times you read the blurbs in the paper about some woman being removed from her home through a hole in the wall and taken by tractor to a hospital. As awful and disturbing as that sounds these incidents are rare which is both a blessing and a curse. There are barely any facilities in place to help someone like this and no place feels the need to even plan for it because it is so, so rare. It's not worth the expense and would be fiscally irresponsible with so many other things a city/state needs to put their attention on. Even the worst case scenario of needing that is better than having a greeder feeder bent on feeding stay. Unfortunately the situation will go on till they pull the sheet over his victim's head and call the time of death.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have an abundance of mirrors in my apartment. I have one cheapo full length on the back of my bedroom door that I look in quickly before I head out, otherwise I'm not up on things. I know I've gained weight through natural causes but never really gave it much of a look. Every now and then though I will stay in a hotel that has a closet with sliding glass mirrored doors by the bed. I recall sitting there in front of one and being mesmerized. I *could not* take my eyes away. I had a roommate with me and was trying not to appear like a crazed self absorbed vanity freak but I couldn't help it. I kept looking at my shoulders, my cleavage, my calves, my thighs and belly. I wanted to try stuff on, change positions on the bed. I loved the way everything bounced around whenever I struggled to change position on the bed and to me it looked so soft. I was nearly giddy. To me I looked radiant, healthy, full of life - my skin was pristine and glowing. I was flexing my toes and watching how the muscles contracted in my lower legs and seeing how the fat tightened and dimpled in my upper thighs. I was loving the changes and where everything had gone and mildly wondering.... what if?
> 
> I'm not an active gainer and my desires are mild compared to many others but even I was thinking about more. One day someone may say, "Lilly, you've got one foot in the grave and another on a banana peel. You better have your breasts removed/stomach stapled/ass plugged up/teeth yanked out or you're a gonner." I suppose I will do what I have to do but I'll still lose my sense of propriety if I pass by a mirror and see my ass has gotten bigger or my falsies make me look like a whole person again. There's nothing I can do about it. I'm guessing that I will be wired this way till the day they pull the sheet over my head.



Damn it, I can't give Reputation points! But, great post Lilly!


----------



## AtlasD

I'm sure this is a volation of some rule (sorry, Ann Marie!). I originally posted this on Emma's thread, but it looks like it is relevant here also.

Any subject as sensitive as this needs discussion, and this forum is one of the few places where this can happen.

There is always a hazard with single theme relationships. Lets assume a couple shares a passion for kayaking. They kayak whenever and wherever they can, kayaking dominates their discussions, all their friends kayak. For some reason- injury, health issues, or loss of interest- one partner no longer can kayak or desires to kayak. The relationship dissolves because the one common thread holding it together has been broken. If a long-term relationship is to survive there must be multiple and diverse shared interests.

Feederism cannot go on forever in a relationship. Just as there is no such thing as infinite weight loss, there also cannot be infinite weight gain. At some point a limit is reached, and where does the relationship go from there? Hopefully there are other shared interests and the relationship continues to develop. But if weight gain is the dominant theme, with few or no other facets to the relationship, then the relationship is doomed, and very likely with someone being emotionally hurt.

What consenting adults do is between them and nobody elses business. If two people want to engage in gaining activity thats their business and their right. The key, of course, is mutual consent and understanding especially if feeding is a key component to the relationship. If the feedee decides that he or she no longer wants to gain, then there is no consent for continued weight gain, and the dynamic of the relationship has changed. There has to be a discussion and consensus between the couple on what will happen when this point is reached, and the discussion has to take place before its reached. 

Any relationship needs to have some thought about the future. Five years seems like a huge length of time to many people, but it goes by so fast. If a couple is serious about the relationship, they need to discuss where they will be a year from now, five years from now.

Finally- ( I can hear you screaming wont this guy shut up?)- Feederism cannot be generalized into good or evil categories; the spectrum and intensity ranges too widely (no pun intended). Most people are put off by extremes and feederism is no exception. (At what point does more fat merely become more fat?) Yet this thread has demonstrated it is possible to have a meaningful discussion on the topic. Most of us participate in these boards because the prevailing culture is intensely hostile to the concept of fat people being esthetically attractive. For the most part, we are here to share our feeling that fat is not ugly, and is, for us, pleasurable- a premise that meets with scorn and derision in our current culture. Feederism, mild or extreme, for good or for ill is a part of the fat esthetic culture; its counterpart in mainstream society is deliberate weight loss to achieve the ideal figure- and its extreme manifestation (anorexia) is as abhorrent as feeding to immobility and/or illness. Discussion and dialogue is valuable because it may help avoid the extremes.


----------



## ExpandingHorizons

I'm a FA and a mild feeder, nothing serious. Sometimes, I wish I NEVER had that feeding fetish because I don't want to hurt a woman with too much weight gain. I can never understand why it came up in the first place. I'm happy being a FA, but not the feeding part. I've tried to find ways to get away from that feeling, it seems it's part of me and it will never go away. It's like that fetish is chasing after me and I can't get away from it. It's not fun sometimes, I can feel very sad about that. 

Have anyone successfully kept the feeding fetish behind for years? Who knows?


----------



## Jon Blaze

I got her for you Etobicoke. That was a grand post she made.


----------



## Ample Pie

Trying to defend or explain feeders/feedees (and/or people of whatever term you'd like to apply) seems so silly to me. I get that there are social and even legal implications that may seem mysterious, but I maintain that that is pretty typical of sexuality--period. Or are we not still fighting about gay marriage? Was that issue solved while I was asleep? Aren't there still people fighting about how damaging that is to people, to society, etc? People get so hung up on the sexuality of others--needing to define and understand things just to make them seem safe. 

Of course people shouldn't abuse their spouses. Of course people should be responsible for their own bodies and actions. I somehow get the feeling if some dude was cutting off his oxygen for the purposes of a mind blowing orgasm and did some damage to his brain, he'd have an easier time getting assistance than a fat person--even if the fat person DIDN'T gain intentionally. It's all about stigma and what scares people the most on the whole. 

I've made no secret that I have feedee tendencies--I won't label myself with anything because I'm a human being with complex joys/sexuality/emotions etc. It's too hard to give it one word. I've always found it to be so when it comes to my sexuality. I can't claim to be heterosexual, I can't claim to be homosexual, and I can't claim to be bisexual--the object of my affection has never been another person's gender or sex. Similarly, I can't honestly claim to be a feedee. However, gaining a bit here and there *is* exciting for me and fantasies of even greater gain *are* exciting for me. They just are. I can't explain it or justify it and why do I have to just because it isn't the norm? 

It's like Lilly said, love makes people do crazy things, and like Jay said, sex makes people do crazy things (I'm paraphrasing here). 

I don't ever want to be immobile--in fact LONG before I realized that I have gainer/feedee tendencies, one of my biggest fears was immobility--not because there's a social stigma, not because I give two shits if you approve or not, not because I'm worried it won't be covered as a disability, but because MY OWN JOY WOULD BE COMPROMISED. I find joy in getting up and doing whatever the hell I want--even if it's grabbing a burger (or 3). I find joy in chasing my nephews. I find joy in reaching my own hoo-ha and in all kinds of other actions that require mobility and flexibility. This is my choice, acknowledging that makes it hard for me to attempt to deny others of their choices. Even if I don't understand them.


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## Jon Blaze

Rebecca- GOOD!!!


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## EtobicokeFA

Well said Rebecca!


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## Jon Blaze

5:46 am and no sleep... How about I express my opinion?

If I remember correctly, I heard the term feederism for the first time about 2000ish: Back when I was in the closet. It was somewhat interesting to me in the beginning. I must say it intrigued me.

I was never one to really consider it abuse, but it wasn't something I thought I could ever get into. Food acts as a good aphrodisiac, but the time for teh sexin'  and foreplay were the only times I deemed valid periods to use that. Not that I've done it yet (Dial V for Virgin), but sometimes I have random thoughts.

I can't say the time when I realized that the majority of the time the relationships are mutual, but when I found out: My opinion became more positive of it. It got to the point that I actually thought about weight gain on a fantasy level. I never thought to myself that I could aid the initiation of such things (Whether it was mutual or not), but I did sometimes feel that had I been with a woman that gained weight, I would probably enjoy it. I was into the idea of weight gain for quite a long time. I wasn't one to speak of it, however: I was still in the closet after all.

In the middle of the closet, I began thinking about society's loving relationship with larger people. I got sick of the insulting, I got sick of the "Thiness=Perfection" ideal that was being pushed into our faces, and I began thinking of the view that I still hold dear to my heart: Society is depraved.  I've never been fat in my life (Though I did get insults from my rather thin peers even though the BMI chart [Yes I know how much it sucks] said I was average weight), but I carried Size Acceptance with me on my way out of the closet. I didn't carry feederism, but I still recognize it as something that was somewhat of an allied movement in what I was believing in. 

Later down the line I learned more about. I soon realized the goals are different for each person, the type of relationships are different, and I finally realized how high the percentage is of the relationship being mutual. That's all I needed to approve of the majority of it.

When I got out of the closet, I still carried the fantasy weight gain idea in my head until I started to deal with models, and larger female friends that intended to lose weight. I grew out of it, and no I don't think that feederism is marked by weight loss hatred/thin hatred. It was what I perceived as being open-ended that made me change.

Then I moved on to the brigade period  : I realized that FAs commonly have different opinions on things that concern what they believe in, and I realized feeders were the same, but that didn't change the fact that I recognized the majority of them as being allies.

I've always known that feederism was different from what I have, but later down the line I thought it was a counter (Well I think Fat Admiration is a counter, but feederism is like a complete reversal) to what society preached. I didn't advocate it, but it was always something I thought was perfectly fine in my book.
SlackerFA made me realize that Fat Admiration is more complex than being either a preference, requirement, or even a fetish (I still don't know how it can be a fetish [Unless it's something that is just done on occasion], but I think it's valid to say that is possible). I also realized that feederism is the same. On a base level I consider it to be somewhere between a fetish and a lifestyle which I think is perfectly fine when mutual.

I think about it on occasion (Due to societal and community confusion on the difference between Fat Admiration and Feederism [And how in some people they overlap]):

I realize NAAFA has already stated that it doesn't approve of it, which then I ask questions to myself like: If weight loss is so dissapproved by the Fat Acceptance movement, why wouldn't the opposite be any different? Skip the numbers and the state of being fat: Would that not go against it as well? It is change for value after all. But of course that questioned is pWned times infinity by the mutual part.  I go across the net too much to not realize that many people share similar views.

If it isn't mutual: Hmmmm....I'm not a fan of the pressure (And/or aid of weight gain [Especailly with the whole thin hatred/weight loss hatred thing... That really grinds my gears]) when the person has openly disagreed (Or the person who is doing the pressuring doesn't know their opinion of the whole thing), but i'm also not the king of FAs. I think it's ok to ask someone about it, but you know the rest... 
Not that the pressure just comes from feeders, but I see it sometimes.

Whether I question it or not, I have to realize I am not a feeder, and while the feederism community isn't perfect: It's still not something I'm against.
I can't judge the unhealthy part as well because:
A. You can gain weight healthily and who said you aren't suppose to workout to get more in tune with your new body? Plus everyone is different so . 
B. Compensation Compensation Compensation...
I could go to sleep after I type this, or I can do the ginga for the next eight hours. Both would burn calories, but I might burn more doing the ginga. The ginga might wake me up too. But I need rest man!!! I'm going to sleep!  
It's all about awareness. I know a lot of couples that are in the feederism have weighed the pros and cons enough to accept what they are doing. Obesity may be causing a rise in health costs, but it's just a small percentage in comparison to the other crap that's causing rises.  In 1998 it was at 9.1. Oh NOES!!!!
But where's the other 90.9%? Does that stuff not matter or something? We should be looking for health on all plans. GOSH!  

There's nothing wrong with experimenting with fantasies and fetishism. 

It's now 7:05 am. OLE!!!


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## CurvaceousBBWLover

You guys have really said some interesting things. It's 3:00 AM and I have finally finished reading what you guys have to say. It's my turn now.

I think that people should be able to joyfully pursue their fetishes or fantasies as long as they are not harming another person or exploiting children. All other stuff is fair game. One person's pleasure is another person's perversion; therefore, we really should try to be open minded towards one another.

What I wonder about is what the feeders do to accommodate their partners as they grow larger? Do they fantasize about taking care of this person by having beds, bathrooms and other facilities that would be acommodating. What about buying large clothes as or getting lots of food? There are a lot of practical things to consider if this were to be pursued on a long-term basis.

Some people in the public do think that being a feeder and being an FA are the same. A few days ago, one of my co-workers added herself to my myspace page and told a joke about me fattening her up. She's 5'8 and 100 pounds soaking wet. LOL 

I remember when I first heard about the fattening farms in some parts of west Africa. I always thought it was cool that the people would feed the women lots of food in order for them to be considered "desirable." In some not all parts of Africa (and other non-western nations), food is not as available as it is here. And so I can see how having a large wife could be considered to be a mark of status. 

What I would like to see happen in America is for us to be more accepting of people of all sizes and less fixated on thinness vs. fatness. This is counterconstructive and only enriches the exploitative weight-loss industry while destroying people's budgets, self-esteem and health.

As a lifelong advocate of size acceptance, I've always wondered why it is so important to change women's bodies. What is wrong with them as they are, that we must reconstruct their bodies so they are either as thin as my flat screen monitor or so large they can't get out of their homes? What do you guys think?


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## LillyBBBW

CurvaceousBBWLover said:


> <snipped>.........
> 
> As a lifelong advocate of size acceptance, I've always wondered why it is so important to change women's bodies. What is wrong with them as they are, that we must reconstruct their bodies so they are either as thin as my flat screen monitor or so large they can't get out of their homes? What do you guys think?




I think it's all about the pursuit of happiness. If a person is unhappy truly with their appearance preaching about acceptance isn't really going to make them feel better about it. An electrologist, a cosmetic surgeon, a color stylist will have the magic touch for people who prefer something else for themselves. Just because they want curly red tresses though doesn't mean they want it for everybody, they have low self esteem or that they can't look at someone else's hair and think it's beautiful. It's just a personal choice. Getting a perm doesn't compare to gaining 150 pounds but it's not much different in the mindset. It's what YOU want that matters and not what everyone else thinks.

And yes, there are guys out there who really do want a woman who will gain for them and they will slave away taking care of her and rig up the whole house for her comfort and amusement. I've been asked that more than once online. I'm often surprised at how similar the descriptions are from guy to guy, and they're sincere -- though I doubt they fully grasp the true depth of what it is they are asking for. But they are holding out hope for the right one to come along, they've dreamt of it since childhood. It's not a deliberate attempt to harm anyone or demean anyone, just a very strong and very sad desire that will probably never be fulfilled.


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## Ned Sonntag

LillyBBBW said:


> ...But they are holding out hope for the right one to come along, they've dreamt of it since childhood. It's not a deliberate attempt to harm anyone or demean anyone, just a very strong and very sad desire that will probably never be fulfilled.


 Oh I dunno about that; I got EXACTLY what I wanted and it's more like 'careful what you wish for...':shocked:


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## Fuzzy Necromancer

ExpandingHorizons said:


> I'm a FA and a mild feeder, nothing serious. Sometimes, I wish I NEVER had that feeding fetish because I don't want to hurt a woman with too much weight gain. I can never understand why it came up in the first place. I'm happy being a FA, but not the feeding part. I've tried to find ways to get away from that feeling, it seems it's part of me and it will never go away. It's like that fetish is chasing after me and I can't get away from it. It's not fun sometimes, I can feel very sad about that.
> 
> Have anyone successfully kept the feeding fetish behind for years? Who knows?



*STOP RUNNING!*

You're running in circles. Feeder fetish is not a possessing demon that will force you to cripple and deform. It's part of you. You are running from yourself. Accept it as a valid and true facet of your identity.

You won't hurt a woman with weight gain, for a start because *you can't make her gain weight*. Even if you conciously choose to fatten a woman against her will, something you know to be wrong, you can't truly force somebody to become fat any more than you can make them turn skinny. You can make it difficult for a woman to maintain or lose weight, that's all, and you have as much control over your feeding behavior as you do your own arms and legs.


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## ExpandingHorizons

Fuzzy Necromancer said:


> *STOP RUNNING!*
> 
> You're running in circles. Feeder fetish is not a possessing demon that will force you to cripple and deform. It's part of you. You are running from yourself. Accept it as a valid and true facet of your identity.
> 
> You won't hurt a woman with weight gain, for a start because *you can't make her gain weight*. Even if you conciously choose to fatten a woman against her will, something you know to be wrong, you can't truly force somebody to become fat any more than you can make them turn skinny. You can make it difficult for a woman to maintain or lose weight, that's all, and you have as much control over your feeding behavior as you do your own arms and legs.



Thanks for the advice. That's what I needed to hear.


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## newlylarge

I am new to this forum having gained weight fairly recently while in a relationship. When we first started dating, I was and had been all my life, rather lean and she was too and still is to this day even after my weight gain. At the time that I was "gaining," I had never even heard of the terms "feeder" and "feedee." But when I came here, at first, the terms seemed to fit my girlfriend and I simply based on the words themselves.

On person ("feeder") feeds another person ("feedee") with the agreed upon purpose of making the "feedee" gain weight. I had not even taken the term "feed" literally (as in actually putting food into someone's mouth by some means), but rather I thought of "cooking for" someone as "feeding" them.

This would be to the liking of both parties, but perhaps somewhat more to please the "feeder" with the "feedee" even being indifferent as long as it pleases the feeder. To the extent that it generally occurs in the context of a "romantic" relationship (I assume), it is akin to the feedee agreeing to doing something to make his or her "significant other" happy. Although certainly not if it was contrary to the feedee's wishes.

In my case, I had unintentionally gained a bit of weight and found that I did not mind, but worried that my girlfriend might. If she had been indifferent, with no preference either way, I probably would not have gained more or certainly not intentionally gained as much or as rapidly as I did.

So I did not mind, and kind of liked, gaining weight, but mostly my girlfriend preferred it and asked if I would not mind gaining much more. I had no problem with it, so I agreed simply to "cater to" her desires and make her happy as much as anything else. But this was not her "controlling me" any more than a guy shaving his beard if his girlfriend prefers it as long as the guy does not really much care one way or the other. I wanted to please her, but it was always my choice to make.

But after reading a sampling of postings on this thread (there are too many to read them all. Sorry.), I am not sure WHAT those terms mean anymore or whether they could possibly apply to my experience with my girlfriend.

I'm SO confused.  

She loves to cook and soon began cooking for us (I guess more for ME) very early on. When I would ask if she would not rather go out for dinner more often or even have ME cook once in a while, she said, "Don't be silly. I love finally having someone else to cook for." She also commented that it helped to have me around to eat all that she cooked so that she would not eat too many leftovers. She definitely did not want to gain weight herself.

Before long, her generous nature and great culinary skill had me eating quite a bit more than I ever had before and I started gaining a few pounds. She did not seem to mind and kept cooking as usual so I kept eating as usual.

Eventually, she worked-up the nerve to just come right out and tell me that she LIKED my added weight and even wanted me to gain more. She asked if I would not mind if she cooked for me more often with the goal of putting more weight on me. I happily agreed, since she seemed so pleased with my new girth, and we both went to work "fattening me up."

She cooked much more for me to eat. I ate all that she cooked. And I gained weight quite rapidly and with her strong encouragement as well as appreciation for my ever increasing size and weight. So she was cooking for me and, I suppose you could say, "feeding" me. I was eating what she cooked or "fed" me, and it was all done with the clear and expressed purposes of making me gain weight.

But I am talking here about having gone from having been rather lean, with a completely flat stomach, to having become fairly "puffy," "softer," and "rounded" all over as well as having grown a fairly large, round belly. I always continued to exercise and certainly never had any "mobility" or even health issues. And we certainly never had any intention of going very much beyond where I "ended-up" and certainly nothing like "immobility."

So did that not make us "feeder and feedee"? One would think so.

But now I read the postings here and get the impression that, to many, the terms "feeder" and "feedee" implies some form of "control" by the feeder over the feedee including, not only (it has been implied) somehow "forcing" continued weight-gain (even if only by emotional "control") and also "control" in the sense of the "feedee" becoming "immobile" and therefore, to some extent, literally dependent upon or "controlled by" the "feeder."

So you can imagine my confusion and how I now wonder whether I should ever have referred to my girlfriend as a "feeder" and myself as her "feedee." We certainly were not those things in the sense that is discussed above.

But then again, can't the sort of thing my girlfriend and I did be described by those terms without all of the more extreme connotations?

As I said, in a sense, she FED me (not literally, but by cooking for me), I ate what she "fed" me, and we did so in order to intentionally make me fatter. I would have thought that "feeder" and "feedee" described our experience, but as I said, now I am not sure what to think.


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## newlylarge

Sorry to post again immediately after my last posting and sorry if my last posting seemed a bit "snippy" or like I was up on a soap-box, but let me clarify one concern I have over what we mean by the terms "feeder" and "feedee" even if those concerns are a bit self-serving.

As I said, I am new to the forum and have only begun posting recently. In my few postings on other threads, I often describe how I came to gain weight as a result of my girlfriend and I intentionally "fattening me up" once she realized that she liked my initial, unintentional weight gain and asked me if I would be willing to gain more and to let her "help" me to do so.

In those postings, I generally say at some point that she became sort of a "feeder" and I her "feedee" with no idea what such terms meant in the minds of some, or perhaps, many. I now worry how others on the forum may interpret my use of these terms to describe my experience gaining weight while dating my girlfriend.

I suppose I wonder if people will conjure images of her having me strapped to a chair with a tube snaked down my throat as she pours a concoction of weight-gain shake and melted butter down my gullet, all the while, cackling like the Wicked Witch of the North, "Eat, my pretty! Eat and grow FAT for me! Soon you will be SO FAT that I will not even need to strap you down because you will be unable to move. Bwaaa! Haaa! Haa! Ha!"

I know that is probably NOT what people mean by feeder/feedee, but from some of the discussion I have read here, I wonder if that is not the connotation that those terms carry. So I am not even sure whether I should ever, in future postings, use the terms "feeder" and "feedee" to describe the entirely voluntary and, I think, reasonable efforts that my girlfriend and I undertook to intentionally fatten me up once she discovered that she was, very much, an "FFA" who would appreciate a reasonable amount of weight gain on my part.

Also, I do not mean to imply that any form of one member of a "couple" literally "feeding" the other by actually putting food in their mouth as being bad in any way. Very often, my girlfriend enjoyed preparing "hand-foods," such as pastries, and then sitting on her couch or in bed next to me and actually "feeding" me the pastries by hand. She also often "spoon-fed" me ice-cream or chocolate mousse. Of course, this was done more as a kind of "play" and was certainly not the means by which I ate very much of what she cooked for me (or "fed" me).

I'm sure her "hand-feeding" me pastries, ice-cream, and chocolate mousse in such a many contributed to our shared goal of making me grow fatter, but mostly it was done for the fun of it with the vast majority of what I ate being "by my own hand" even if she had prepared the food for me to eat. I just do not want to seem to "lump in" such "play" with the "cartoon-like" description I provided above. I know that many here enjoy "feeding" and being "fed" in such a playful manner and I certainly do as well.


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## LillyBBBW

newlylarge said:


> .....<snipped>
> 
> As I said, in a sense, she FED me (not literally, but by cooking for me), I ate what she "fed" me, and we did so in order to intentionally make me fatter. I would have thought that "feeder" and "feedee" described our experience, but as I said, now I am not sure what to think.



Feeder/Feedee are really broad terms. There are many variations in the way this desire manifests itself from person to person. A significant amount of people experience it similar to what you describe. It was discussed a few pages back that many people prefer the term 'gainer' and 'encourager' but don't be scared off from the discussion because a few people enjoy it beyond the scope of what you and your sweetie find comfortable. There are some who are a bit more than dispassionate about gaining - they actually want to gain, are turned on by it and want to get as fat as possible. Some people are turned on by literally feeding or stuffing but those are not the only desires represented here.

The honest truth is that there are plenty of people here who conjure up images of someone being strapped to a metal table with an avalanche of rice krispy treats raining down on them every time their SO pulls the lever. You most certainly will encounter one or two people who believe that you've somehow been haplessly brainwashed and are in need of a good talking to. Fortunately there are enough people here who know better thanks to this thread. You should definitely read it if you ever have the time. There are some great contributions here, including yours.


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## newlylarge

LillyBBBW,

Thanks for your kind and insightful reply and for helping out a "newbie" like me. I suppose I have to admit that even I could see from the postings I read that the terms "feeder" and"feedee" have a wide variety of interpretations.

Thanks also for your advice of possibly using the terms "gainer" and "encourager" instead. It is interesting, because I had come to think that the term "gainer" was used here to refer to someone who is intentionally gaining weight, but on their own. I suppose that term too has broad meaning.

I suppose also that I was, initially, drawn to using the terms "feeder" and "feedee" (before I realized the more extreme possible connotations) to describe my experience with my "sweetie" because she was doing MORE than encouraging, she was "feeding" me in the sense of "cooking for" me, I was "gaining" primarily as a result of her "feeding" (or "cooking for") me.

I did sort of want to express the fact that my "fattening-up" was a joint effort on both our parts with her taking a very "active" role. More than that, as I said, if she had been indifferent to my weight gain, I would never had become an intentional "gainer" and, while I might have gained some more weight as I already had been, it surely would not have been as much or as rapidly as I ultimately did.

But she was NOT indifferent to my initial, unintended weight-gain. She liked it, she really really LIKED it.  

As such, she finally worked up the courage to tell me so and the even greater courage to sheepishly ask me if I would be willing to gain much MORE and to even allow her to "help" me do so by cooking lots more for me to eat.

When I met my "sweetie," I had been rather lean and always had been. When, for the first time in my life, I became even a bit "plump," my wonderful girlfriend not only did not mind, but she "appreciated" it. An actual, in the flesh, FFA. When other women might have told me, "Your getting FAT! You need to go on a diet." My girlfriend accepted my weight-gain and even saw the appeal of it which many women do not.

With her supportive reaction to my new "circumstance," I was very happy to support her in her discovery of her own new "circumstance." She had never known it before, because she had always been with slender guys (including me at first), but she "discovered" that she was, what you call here, an FFA.

I could have been content to remain only "plump" or "chubby," but once I realized her desire to explore her newly discovered "FFA feelings," I was all too happy to agree to let her "help me" to gain more weight. I knew that she would enjoy it, and she did so every step of the way, and I enjoyed seeing and contributing to her pleasure at having a "fat boyfriend" to "appreciate."  

But I was in complete control all the while.

So I suppose the reason I wish I could use the terms "feeder" and "feedee" to describe our experience together is because those terms, on their face, seem to imply a "partnership" such as the one we shared.


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## LillyBBBW

I never really liked the term 'feedee' because in my mind, it conjured up some negative stereotypes according the the way I've heard the term used. Feedee, however, represents different things to different people according to their exposure but really it encompasses a whole lot. I'm still a bit wary of using the term for myself because it leaves so much to the imagination and I'm not sure what pops into a person mind when I describe myself as one. Further explanation is usually necessary even in talking with other feedees and feeders but clearly I belong under that moniker. As I make my way along I'm becoming more comfortable but the term still makes me wince on occasion. 

Another reason I'm uncomfortable with it is because for me it is more a personal thing. Putting 'Feedee' in my profile feels akin to putting 'butt sex lover' in there. lol It's like I'm just asking for come ons or that's all I'm about which isn't the case. I tend to be an old lady about that kind of stuff though anyway. I've finally put it out there but believe me, it took a long way to get to this point. 

Congratulation on your happiness newlylarge. There are lots of feedees clawing their way though life hoping to find exactly what you and your girlfriend have stumbled upon. Welcome to the boards.


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## newlylarge

Thanks again, LillyBBBW.

I can particularly relate to your comment that, "Putting 'Feedee' in my profile feels akin to putting 'butt sex lover' in there. lol It's like I'm just asking for come ons or that's all I'm about which isn't the case." I suppose that is like my concern that calling my girlfriend a "feeder" might conjure images of someone who wishes to "control" or "dominate" someone by "making" them gain weight.

Perhaps the answer is that the terms "feeder" and "feedee" should be in the context of a relationship that is not based purely on such things as weight or weight-gain as is the case with me and my girlfriend. She "discovered" that she was an FFA and wanted to see me grow from lean to fat, but long before that, we had a wonderful relationship that had nothing to do with that. I was very lean, as I always had been before, when we met and our relationship was in no way based on either of our "sizes."

Perhaps, as you imply, being a "feeder" should not be a "stand-alone" description of a person as if all they want is to find someone to fatten them up and everything else is secondary. Perhaps it should refer to a person who is in a loving relationship who finds that, additionally, their partner also has a preference for seeing them heavier and would like to participate in making that "desire" a reality by "feeding" their partner or, in my case, cooking for them and "encouraging" weight gain.

Likewise, perhaps the term "feedee" should describe a person who finds that their partner wishes to see them heavier, and even wishes to "help" them grow larger, and that (as a feedee) he or she is mostly interested in their partner's desires (as most any member of a couple would be) and is even willing to gain weight with their partner's "help" if that is what is involved.

Perhaps we need a different term to describe someone who has a completely "independent" desire to gain weight by being "fed" by someone else. As I said, my desire to "allow" my girlfriend to "feed" me and make me grow fatter was entirely based upon my recognition that doing so would make her happy. Again, I note that this was not akin to letting her "control" me because I truly did not mind gaining more weight. If I had, I never would have agreed to her request just as I would never expect her to do anything for me that she was not comfortable with.

But if, as in my case, one has a girlfriend who "discovers" that she is an FFA and who asks that one gain weight (perhaps even with her assistance) in order to address her newly discovered preference, then agreeing to be "fed" and to gain weight seems an act of kindness that one would wish to provide to a loved one as long as it does not conflict with one's own desires.

That is why I was all to happy to let my girlfriend "feed" me and make me grow fat. I did not mind and I was glad that I could please her by doing so.

I suppose I wish that this was the connotation that "feedee" and feeder" held.


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## Russ2d

I think the whole realm of feeders and feedees is great and a natural outgrowth in one form or another of being an FA. What the hell is the controversy? FAs desire fat, food maintains and/or increases fat. Pretty simple basics to me, and as far as "feeding" dominance and submission and all the rest of it, that will vary from couple to couple just like everything else. There's way too much over-thinking on some of these threads in my opinion. Keep it simple, because it is.


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## newlylarge

You make a good point, Russ2d. But my point is merely that it seems the issue of "feeder/feedee" and that of "dominance and submission" are really two different matters.

Certainly, some people combine them, but I dare say that people who are into "dominance and submission" are probably into that independent of their interest in "feeder/feedee" and that the latter is merely one possible way of expressing the former. All I am saying is that it should be possible for people to talk about being a "feeder" or a "feedee" without there being any implication that they might also be into "dominance and submission."

Maybe we need a set of new terms, such as "dominance-feeder/submission-feedee," to describe a relationship where that applies. Accordingly, maybe the terms "feeder/feedee" should be assumed to have nothing to do with "dominance/submission." With due respect to anyone who IS into dominance and submission, I think that those of us who are not would like to avoid any confusion if we use the terms "feeder/feedee."

As you said yourself, Russ2d, "FAs desire fat, food maintains and/or increases fat. Pretty simple basics to me." I agree. That is what describes me and my girlfriend. She desired that I become fat and she "participated" in making that happen by preparing for me the food that "maintains and/or increases fat." ("feeding" me)

It had nothing to do with "dominance and submission" and it simply seems that there should be terms to describe such relationships that clearly distinguish between the two situations. So as I said, perhaps simply "feeding" someone because you prefer them fatter should be described as a "feeder/feedee" relationship. And perhaps feeding someone as part of some form of "dominance and submission" (in addition to promoting weight-gain) should be described as a "dominance-feeder/submission-feedee" relationship. That way, the two cases are clearly distinguished.

Just a "humble proposal" on my part.


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## xxladydreamzxx

ann marie ur eyes are so dang pretty


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## AnnMarie

xxladydreamzxx said:


> ann marie ur eyes are so dang pretty


Thank you very much... very nice of you.  

(And I had to remove your signature... please watch that when posting on other boards, it's not allowed. )


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## Korota

Hmm. Interesting thread. I've only read about halfway through so far, but I'm gonna post my 2 cents now, and hope I'm not stepping on any toes or repeating what other people have said.

First, a bit about where I stand in this wacky fetish. I'm an FA, and I guess you could say I'm both a feeder and a feedee, though these days I lean strongly towards the latter, and I've never had any real world experience with either of them. Both of these tendencies are colored by my being rather submissive and eager-to-please. I've got other fetishes involving getting bigger in various ways and places, but since this isn't about those particular kinks, I'll leave them out of this.

I'm a feeder, but I'm not an asshole! I'm too much of a desperate loser to afford to be.  The idea of making a girl gain(and by making, I don't mean forcing, I mean having a hand in it) is very appealing to me, but isn't some aspect of control and shaping someone to fit my desires. For me, the feedee would probably be in the dominant position, with me catering to their desires for food and fatness, which, considering my particular kink, I'd be more than happy to do. This doesn't seem to be a very common scenario, since people seem to tend towards the idea of the feeder being the one getting all the gratification, while the feedee is 'okay' with it, but pretty much is in an "I'm happy with it because you're happy with it" situation. I'm not fond of this outlook on the fetish, because it seems to assume that nobody would want to be on the recieving end of this treatment, when I'm living proof that it's not the case.

I'm very inclined towards the idea of being a feedee, and not simply out of some desire to please the feeder or to stay in a relationship which people so often seem to consider the case. I find the concept of eating huge amounts of delicious food and getting fatter and fatter because of it extremely enticing, and as I'm admittedly rather lazy(or at least unmotivated), the whole pampering aspect of being waited on by someone else without having to lift a finger is pretty appealing. When I say it like that, it seems kind of self-centered and spoiled, which makes me think that it's ironic how the feedee position tends to be cast in a submissive light. When I visualize someone having another person catering to every want and need, I don't think of the caterer of being the one in control! I know it's not always the case, and people will bring up the idea of the manipulative feeder who uses the illusion of that situation to get his own personal gratification, but the fact is, in most examples outside this community, when someone has people fulfilling their every desire, that person is usually the one who's the boss.

Of course, none of this is set in stone. Being a feeder does have aspects of personal gratification that appeals to me, and beng the eager-to-please type, I'd enjoy the idea that I was making someone else happy by becoming fatter. And I admit, I've entertained fantasies of fattening up another person without their consent or against their will(nobody specific, just the idea of doing it). But I've more often fantasized about being the 'victim' in such a situation, and in all cases, the idea of it happening in real life is downright distasteful. I think the distinction between fantasy and reality is important when you discuss this sort of thing. I'm sure most people have thought of doing things to people they would never ACTUALLY do, so condemning someone for having the thought really isn't fair.

As for all the stories people have posted about feeders who fit the stereotype of being pretty much OBSESSED with a girl gaining weight and losing interest once she stops is very unsettling. The fact that these are the only kinds of feeders you actually hear about makes me wonder, is that because the selfish, manipulative feeder is most common, or is it just because nobody cares about the feeder who's got a successful relationship with a feedee and doesn't take advantage of it. Either way, it seems like revealing that I'm turned on by a girl gaining weight will cause many women to avoid me like the plague and treat me like a serial killer. Which kinda sucks.


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## Fuzzy Necromancer

Here here! 

*raises a glass to Korota's name and words of wisdom*


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## Red Paul

I've wanted to be really big since I was a child, sometimes even immobile...but as for the immobile part always kept it in perspective, realizing that I really didnt want that, Since I was 18 (now 41) on at least on 10 occasions I have gained a large amount of weight ..example 70lbs in 4months only to suddenly realize for whatever reason to stop and lose it. Now I've often thought that maybe I was crazy or something and may be....lol....but it seems to be the only mental malfunction that I have...lol...seriously I do like eating & being fat ...and would love to weigh 500 lbs but no more, and probobly would had I not lost all the weight I've gained over the years...Im only 300 lbs


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## franchescassbbw

I'm a feedee and would LOVE to be much bigger than my current weight...I'm married to a feeder who is doing his job well. I've gain 100 lbs. in the last year. He wants me bigger as he is a FA. I want me bigger cause it makes me feel so sexy and beautiful. It's a perfect match. I don't think either of us is manipulating the other at all. We went into this relationship knowing what we wanted. It's one chance in a million that I found him.


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## Chubbling

I too will apologize for not having read the entirety of this thread but I thought I would toss in my 0.02 as well... 

Newlylarge, I am on a page very similar to yours... I'm rather new to all of this business and agree with much you've said... Like so many things, it seems to me the problem lies in the definition (or lack thereof in any specificity). 

I guess I jumped to conclusions and differentiated between extreme/fantasy feedee/feeder behaviour strictly as fantasy and assumed that most people (gross generalization - sorry!) did too. *For me*, I guess I would define myself as a feedee in the sense that I like to be fed but perceive it as a more nurturing behaviour and I don't *necessarily* equate it with weight gain although I'm guessing most people do (hence this thread). So, I guess I'm suggesting another category to the ones suggested by Newlylarge! I always get squishier in the winter and I love it (which is why I'm here!) but I definitely have an upper limit in terms of weight gain/muscle loss and would never let anyone dictate that for me. At the same time, I have no problem with people who decide to gain weight and have a partner who is eager to help and whose upper limit is significantly different from mine. I just hope that the control stays where it should for a healthy relationship whether it has to do with weight or anything else. Now, in terms of sexual play vs reality, I think there is a huge difference between someone who is fine with being tied to a chair/bed/etc. and stuffed every so often and someone who is completely submissive 100% of the time and is *not* in control of their body... 

Anyway, hopefully this makes sense...! I feel as though I haven't elaborated as much as I'd like... it's late... zzzzzzzz....


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## Mack27

Feederism is regarded by a lot of people as degenerate, immoral, self-destructive, unhealthy and disgusting. 

My response to that: And? So? Your point? What consenting adults want to do with or too each other is nobody else's business. Tell me till your blue in the face to not jump off a cliff to my death, if I'm going to do it I'm sure as hell not going to ask your permission. Feederism gives size acceptance a bad name they'll say. I'll accept you if you'll accept me, why can't you be more accepting? Obese people cost everybody more in health care costs...sorry every long-term study that projected lifetime costs proved that wrong. 

Self-important busy-bodies need to stfu and live and let live.


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## TheBiggerTheBetter

People make up there own minds, anybody who looks at Feederism in a negative way is a sefish person. It's like me telling somebody they cant use toys during sex, or watch porno. It's kinda like Gay marriage, you might not agree with it, but if it doesn't effect your life why should wrong for somebdy else to do it.


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## MakeMeAFeedee

I must apologize for not reading the entire thread, it's very intimidating in length . However, I have to say there is definitely a distinction between a person and a person's sex life. Friends of the opposite sex you may think you know really well can be entirely different when you begin to know them on a sexual/intimate level. And quite frankly, there are a lot of strange and wild fetishes out there. That being said, I feel like feederism should be more accepted, and not as a fetish but as a way of living or as a way of seeing the world an accepting what most people shun and degrade. The fact that this movement is referred to as the "new coming out" is, in my humble opinion, entirely ridiculous. In its nature, it seems to be caring, consensual and highly symbolic. Though, speaking from personal internal turmoils, there are a lot of family pressures to conform to a certain way of being, and a standardized Hollywood image. Though, just watch Wall-e or Bolt and see how society has evolved.


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## LillyBBBW

MakeMeAFeedee said:


> I must apologize for not reading the entire thread, it's very intimidating in length . However, I have to say there is definitely a distinction between a person and a person's sex life. Friends of the opposite sex you may think you know really well can be entirely different when you begin to know them on a sexual/intimate level. And quite frankly, there are a lot of strange and wild fetishes out there. That being said, I feel like feederism should be more accepted, and not as a fetish but as a way of living or as a way of seeing the world an accepting what most people shun and degrade. The fact that this movement is referred to as the "new coming out" is, in my humble opinion, entirely ridiculous. In its nature, it seems to be caring, consensual and highly symbolic. Though, speaking from personal internal turmoils, there are a lot of family pressures to conform to a certain way of being, and a standardized Hollywood image. Though, just watch Wall-e or Bolt and see how society has evolved.



I think there is a unique dynamic when you consider a feedee who happens to be fat. Without knowing anything at all about the person the pure sight of them has a majority of people making conclusions about him or her. There is already an element of censure, scorn and misguided concern in many cases - especially on the part of family members. The concept that the family fattie enjoys being that way and that both he and his partner enjoy both the fatness and the gain can be downright terrifying. They will often view the partner as some form of sociopath with a vulnerable relative in their clutches. Family will be far from accepting and the hysteria creates huge problems for both.


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## MakeMeAFeedee

Definitely. I would say the traditional family represents a great mental obstacle to over.


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## EtobicokeFA

LillyBBBW said:


> I think there is a unique dynamic when you consider a feedee who happens to be fat. Without knowing anything at all about the person the pure sight of them has a majority of people making conclusions about him or her. There is already an element of censure, scorn and misguided concern in many cases - especially on the part of family members. The concept that the family fattie enjoys being that way and that both he and his partner enjoy both the fatness and the gain can be downright terrifying. They will often view the partner as some form of sociopath with a vulnerable relative in their clutches. Family will be far from accepting and the hysteria creates huge problems for both.


 
Being just a FA, I have encounter this as well. However I would like to add, that it seems that in the case that the fattie does not have a partner the fattie, is themselves views as being self-destructive.


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## Tau

My very first encounter with the world of feederism was in a documentary called Fat girls and Feeders - and I can't lie I was truly upset by what I saw. The female feedee in the doccie came across as unhappy and trapped. She didn't want to gain weight and her partner kept pushing her to do so - he was even building a house with bigger doors etc so that they could move there and she could still move around. To me that was an abusive relationship - I didn't see how it was any different than some men insisting their girlfriends/wives undergo various forms of surgery just to appear physically appealing to them. I have learnt a whole lot about feederism since then and I have since encountered many empowered feedees - men and women who gain the weight because they want to, who have control of when and how and how much they gain. This changed a huge number of my perceptions and I'm thankful that boards like this exist in order to shed a fairer light on topics like this. I have to say thought that I don't think its ok to be unable to move because of your size. I don't think its great to have sores on your body, and pain in you bones and muscles because you're too big. I think gaining to those levels takes something that is fulfilling, sensual and intensely pleasurable and turns it into something unhealthy and disturbingly self destructive. And if I had a family member in that kind of situation, where they couldnt move and were entirely dependent on another person for everything, I would freak out big time.


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## LillyBBBW

Tau said:


> My very first encounter with the world of feederism was in a documentary called Fat girls and Feeders - and I can't lie I was truly upset by what I saw. The female feedee in the doccie came across as unhappy and trapped. She didn't want to gain weight and her partner kept pushing her to do so - he was even building a house with bigger doors etc so that they could move there and she could still move around. To me that was an abusive relationship - I didn't see how it was any different than some men insisting their girlfriends/wives undergo various forms of surgery just to appear physically appealing to them. I have learnt a whole lot about feederism since then and I have since encountered many empowered feedees - men and women who gain the weight because they want to, who have control of when and how and how much they gain. This changed a huge number of my perceptions and I'm thankful that boards like this exist in order to shed a fairer light on topics like this. I have to say thought that I don't think its ok to be unable to move because of your size. I don't think its great to have sores on your body, and pain in you bones and muscles because you're too big. I think gaining to those levels takes something that is fulfilling, sensual and intensely pleasurable and turns it into something unhealthy and disturbingly self destructive. *And if I had a family member in that kind of situation, where they couldnt move and were entirely dependent on another person for everything, I would freak out big time. *



My aunt was like that. I was very young but from what I recall the family did freak out about it. My mom and dad would have long, handwringing discussions about her and would use her as a bad example to get me to trim down. "You don't want to wind up like your aunt Pearl." I'm not completely certain but I don't think it was my aunt's choice to be that big or in that position. She had ceased being a human being to everyone and became only a giant weight problem. Nobody actually had conversations with her. It was always a discussion about how she was doing, how she was feeling, does she need anything, what did the doctor say, was she taking her medicine, etc. I was too young really so I didnt have the close relationship with her that I wanted. She was always melancholy and said very little to me if anything at all. 

Anyway, freaking out on a fat relative whether it's by choice or it isn't brings about only negative results both for you and your loved one. I can't and won't tell you how to feel. Just try to keep in mind that your relative is still a living loving human being and not just the embodiement of everything you fear.


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## Blackjack

Tau said:


> My very first encounter with the world of feederism was in a documentary called Fat girls and Feeders - and I can't lie I was truly upset by what I saw. The female feedee in the doccie came across as unhappy and trapped. She didn't want to gain weight and her partner kept pushing her to do so - he was even building a house with bigger doors etc so that they could move there and she could still move around. To me that was an abusive relationship - I didn't see how it was any different than some men insisting their girlfriends/wives undergo various forms of surgery just to appear physically appealing to them.



For what it's worth, Gina has actually stated quite often that the documentary was completely wrong with that and manipulated things to make it seem like the relationship was so abusive. It's more of a fantasy that just went too far, with serious results. She's still with the same guy, and he's actually supported her losing weight, which she has.

She posted a couple years back in this thread with a quick, happy update, but she hasn't really been around since last August.


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## Fuzzy Necromancer

MakeMeAFeedee said:


> I must apologize for not reading the entire thread, it's very intimidating in length . However, I have to say there is definitely a distinction between a person and a person's sex life. Friends of the opposite sex you may think you know really well can be entirely different when you begin to know them on a sexual/intimate level. And quite frankly, there are a lot of strange and wild fetishes out there. That being said, I feel like feederism should be more accepted, and not as a fetish but as a way of living or as a way of seeing the world an accepting what most people shun and degrade. The fact that this movement is referred to as the "new coming out" is, in my humble opinion, entirely ridiculous. In its nature, it seems to be caring, consensual and highly symbolic. Though, speaking from personal internal turmoils, there are a lot of family pressures to conform to a certain way of being, and a standardized Hollywood image. Though, just watch Wall-e or Bolt and see how society has evolved.



Yes. They show that society has evolved to easily sympathize with CGI dogs and robots.

They don't, however, give a great deal of information on society standards regarding deliberate erotic weight gain.


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## lovesgaininggirls

I like to make a distinction between a feeder and one who promotes gaining. I find the idea of convincing a thin woman to drop her inhibitions about gaining and eat whatever she wants to in whatever quantities she wants to as essentially erotic. That doesn't mean that I would want a woman 5 feet tall and who weighs 100 pounds to gain say 900 pounds to the point that she can't move. But to see her add oh say 50 percent to her weight, or more if she chooses, as terribly erotic. 

For me this also isn't about control. I just think eating has a sensual quality that a woman should open herself up to, without worrying about the attendant consequences, such as gaining weight. But in order for this to be erotic to ME it also has to be erotic to the woman involved. Hopefully, she will also come to love the sensual aspects of putting on weight from HER perspective. When it's mutual then the experience becomes meaningful.

Does that make sense?


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## Ample Pie

I think the distinction between "Feeder" and "encourager" is largely bunk and just lends support to the notion that feeders are bad controlling people while it asserts that there is a kinder gentler "encourager" who wants to help you feel better about yourself.

To my way of thinking the "encouragers" sound way shadier than feeders anyway. Feeders are people who, with Feedees, attempt to change said Feedee's weight, not because the original weight is bad, but because MORE weight is good. It's a joint thing and both people are getting off/enjoying it.

It's the encouragers who are so often surreptitious and are trying to CONVINCE someone that what they are is wrong and how much better they'd feel about themselves if they'd just loosen up and eat something already.

Give me a loud proud feeder any day. I like a man/woman who knows themselves and is proud and confident--because it gives me the freedom to be the same.


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## katherine22

Good point in this discussion. Normal behavior is a product of social construction. There may be parts of people's private behavior that one would deem personally unacceptable; however, that does not infer that personally unacceptable behavior is a sign of mental illness.


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## Ted Michael Morgan

A French philosophy Michel Foucault wrote in great depth about how much that we take to be natural facts are social constructions. I think we have to take all so-called norms carefully, but, at the same time, extreme weight gain might well be unhealthy for many of us. We have to take care. 

We don’t get to talk about our sexual fantasies often. People don’t want to hear us talk about them and many of us probably don’t care what turns on many people we know. But the topic is important. 

The dominance that I find in erotic weight gain fantasy just might not be good for any lover I might know. I have to realize that. Still, after 21 years with a compulsive dieter, I learned what I don’t like—a starving lover, even though I did love the one I had.


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## Noir

Interesting topic. Also a lot of good points with what I scanned. I suppose I'll just throw in my two cents. I was always attracted to larger girls growing up and when I discovered feederism in my teens, it just clicked for me. There is no denying that I enjoy a woman growing, now to the general public Im sure most of the reactions would be along the lines of "ew". They are right to their opinion just as I am right to mine. It just seems normal to me or to at least be attracted to larger women. With my experiences I have found it to be very fulfilling emotionally, physically, intimately. There is a lot of trust that needs to go into a relationship like that especially if the feedee is unsure to begin with. Personally, I also go by the feedee's preference. As I see it, its their body. If you care for that person you need to support in their decision if they want to stop, lose weight, or gain weight.


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## lovesgaininggirls

I think one of the major problems in dealing with the whole issue of feeding is the question of just what one means by a feeder. I think the stereotypical idea of a feeder is someone who uses either physical force or emotional blackmail to get someone to gain. If that is what a feeder is, and I personally don't subscribe to that definition, then I'm definitely NOT a feeder. I'm much more of an enabler, using compliments and encouragement to coax someone who already wants to gain but who is perhaps reluctant due to family or societal pressures, to gain anyway. Then there's the question of the ultimate goal. I think the stereotypical view of a feeder is that the feeder wants the feedee to gain to immobility or darn close to it. Once again, using that as a definition, I'm not a feeder. I believe gaining is for pleasure, abandoning the whole diet and exercise torture, not necessarily with the object of deliberately gaining, but simply throwing caution to the wind, accepting a new lifestyle, and not caring a whit about the consequences. I think the controversy comes from those who believe the stereoptype is what feederism is all about as opposed to those of us who are into gaining, but not to that extent.

So the whole idea isn't about gaining per se, but it's about the pleasure of eating without counting calories or feeling one has to run from Chicago to Milwaukee and back just because one has eaten an enormous meal. And most important, at least for me, the whole thing has to be purely voluntary. I don't want to see a woman go from skinny to plump to fat unless she finds the changes wrought to her body both pleasurable and in some sense perhaps, even erotic.


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## LoveBHMS

Agree completely. For me the other person *has to be* into it otherwise it's not even remotely fun.

This is not to say all feeders believe this---there may be some who genuinely get off on the idea of manipulation, using weight gain as punishment, or of harming the feedee. There are plenty of stories in the fiction archives that have these themes, so obviously those ideas have their audience.

For me however, the guy has to be really getting off on eating, feeling stuffed, being bloated, and getting bigger in order for it to excite me. My attitude towards fetishism is that a lot of it is about role playing; there are doms and subs, sadists and masochists, voyeurs and exhibitionists, and feeders and feedees. I'd never be interested in feeding if the other person was not interesting in being fed.


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## nykspree8

I wouldn't be against a girl I was with putting on some extra pounds and I've even fantasized about girls I've been in relationships with being bigger than they are, but in none of those fantasies have I ever envisioned myself as a "feeder". The weight gain would have to come naturally, per se. Yeah, I would be supportive if she wanted to gain weight here and there, but there should be limits, as there should be with all things, and that's all I'm going to say 

edit: After reading some of these posts, would me being supportive to a girl putting on weight make me a feeder??? Sure does seem like it cause some of these posts make a lot of sense *shrug*, oh well...limits...that's all I'm gonna say again ;P


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## aussiefa63

OMG! What a read, so many opinions, on a very interesting topic.

Firstly.



LillyBBW said:


> I know I've gained weight through natural causes but never really gave it much of a look. Every now and then though I will stay in a hotel that has a closet with sliding glass mirrored doors by the bed. I recall sitting there in front of one and being mesmerized. I *could not* take my eyes away. I had a roommate with me and was trying not to appear like a crazed self absorbed vanity freak but I couldn't help it. I kept looking at my shoulders, my cleavage, my calves, my thighs and belly. I wanted to try stuff on, change positions on the bed. I loved the way everything bounced around whenever I struggled to change position on the bed and to me it looked so soft. I was nearly giddy. To me I looked radiant, healthy, full of life - my skin was pristine and glowing



Lilly, I am sure you'd find just about every FA would love to see that too 

Ok, on the topic at hand. My wife has loved her food, but always been conscience about her weight, which to me is a contradiction. I have for as long as I can remember loved the BBW/SSBBW form & have dated a few, but I completely fell for my wife when we met & she was only 9 1/2st (133lbs) @5'6", so she wasn't a big girl at all, she's big boned though, so she was curvacious. I still always had thoughts of her gaining weight, getting bigger. Does that make me a feeder or just still an FA? 

After having both our kids she did of course gain weight, but managed to loose the weight after our first, but struggled after the second & yo-yo'd for years. I never discouraged her to loose weight, but I also did point out that yo-yo'ing was not good as she only put on more than she lost each time. Does that make me a feeder or just a loving husband pointing out a fact?

She threw out the scales quite some years back, but was still conscience about her weight & was still yo-yo'ing & each time she stopped dieting, she'd ended up gaining back the weight + some. I loved the extra curves of course & would compliment her on her figure, tell her how gorgeous she was, does that make me a feeder/encourager or just a husband that loves his wife & wants to support her, make her feel better about herself?

So, now she'd weigh I guess 220-240lbs & she has told me now a few times in the last year, she'll never diet again, she loves her food to much, she loves a social drink, so she's just going to enjoy life. Although there are the odd times that she wishes she was a size 14 & not a size 20. She has said she'll probably get bigger, which I know as she eats big meals, all healthy stuff though, she doesn't eat lots of cakes, pasteries, takeaway food, she likes to cook good healthy meals,(as do I & she loves it when I cook) but she'll have a big plate load & even go for seconds, then later she'll make something else to snack on. So is my letting her go, letting her enjoy her life the way she wants, make me a feeder/encourager cause I know she'll get bigger or again a loving, supportive husband & the bonus is she'll get bigger? It's a fine line me thinks.

Yes I'd like her to be bigger, always have, but at no time would I ever want her to get bigger than she was comfortable with being or if it made her health suffer in a big way. Currently her heath is good, no high bloodpressure, diabetes, colestereol is better than mine & I'm slim. Must be her healthy eating .

So, I think there is many differences in the whole feeder/feedee debate. For me force feeding someone is not right, unless they consent I guess, but I still don't get it. Even if your partner wants to gain weight till they become completely immobile, I think that you need to be responsible & not let that happen, as the quality of life for both would no longer be there & would have to effect the relationship. Yes, I like big women & the bigger the better, that's just my preference, but there is a point where bigger can be too big & a difference between fantasy & reality.

There are so many variables to this debate, but for me the bottom line would have to be the health, the quality of life, the happiness of those involved.

That's just my opinion & opinons are like arseholes, everyone has one.


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## Ted Michael Morgan

LoveBHMS said:


> Agree completely. For me the other person *has to be* into it otherwise it's not even remotely fun.
> 
> This is not to say all feeders believe this---there may be some who genuinely get off on the idea of manipulation, using weight gain as punishment, or of harming the feedee. There are plenty of stories in the fiction archives that have these themes, so obviously those ideas have their audience.
> 
> For me however, the guy has to be really getting off on eating, feeling stuffed, being bloated, and getting bigger in order for it to excite me. My attitude towards fetishism is that a lot of it is about role playing; there are doms and subs, sadists and masochists, voyeurs and exhibitionists, and feeders and feedees. I'd never be interested in feeding if the other person was not interesting in being fed.



Consent is vital. Otherwise, it is rape and pure exploitation. There is room for fantasy, of course, but I would never want to push my needs onto another person, particularly a lover.


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## Ted Michael Morgan

aussiefa63 said:


> OMG! What a read, so many opinions, on a very interesting topic.
> 
> Firstly.
> 
> 
> 
> Lilly, I am sure you'd find just about every FA would love to see that too
> 
> Ok, on the topic at hand. My wife has loved her food, but always been conscience about her weight, which to me is a contradiction. I have for as long as I can remember loved the BBW/SSBBW form & have dated a few, but I completely fell for my wife when we met & she was only 9 1/2st (133lbs) @5'6", so she wasn't a big girl at all, she's big boned though, so she was curvacious. I still always had thoughts of her gaining weight, getting bigger. Does that make me a feeder or just still an FA?
> 
> After having both our kids she did of course gain weight, but managed to loose the weight after our first, but struggled after the second & yo-yo'd for years. I never discouraged her to loose weight, but I also did point out that yo-yo'ing was not good as she only put on more than she lost each time. Does that make me a feeder or just a loving husband pointing out a fact?
> 
> She threw out the scales quite some years back, but was still conscience about her weight & was still yo-yo'ing & each time she stopped dieting, she'd ended up gaining back the weight + some. I loved the extra curves of course & would compliment her on her figure, tell her how gorgeous she was, does that make me a feeder/encourager or just a husband that loves his wife & wants to support her, make her feel better about herself?
> 
> So, now she'd weigh I guess 220-240lbs & she has told me now a few times in the last year, she'll never diet again, she loves her food to much, she loves a social drink, so she's just going to enjoy life. Although there are the odd times that she wishes she was a size 14 & not a size 20. She has said she'll probably get bigger, which I know as she eats big meals, all healthy stuff though, she doesn't eat lots of cakes, pasteries, takeaway food, she likes to cook good healthy meals,(as do I & she loves it when I cook) but she'll have a big plate load & even go for seconds, then later she'll make something else to snack on. So is my letting her go, letting her enjoy her life the way she wants, make me a feeder/encourager cause I know she'll get bigger or again a loving, supportive husband & the bonus is she'll get bigger? It's a fine line me thinks.
> 
> Yes I'd like her to be bigger, always have, but at no time would I ever want her to get bigger than she was comfortable with being or if it made her health suffer in a big way. Currently her heath is good, no high bloodpressure, diabetes, colestereol is better than mine & I'm slim. Must be her healthy eating .
> 
> So, I think there is many differences in the whole feeder/feedee debate. For me force feeding someone is not right, unless they consent I guess, but I still don't get it. Even if your partner wants to gain weight till they become completely immobile, I think that you need to be responsible & not let that happen, as the quality of life for both would no longer be there & would have to effect the relationship. Yes, I like big women & the bigger the better, that's just my preference, but there is a point where bigger can be too big & a difference between fantasy & reality.
> 
> There are so many variables to this debate, but for me the bottom line would have to be the health, the quality of life, the happiness of those involved.
> 
> That's just my opinion & opinons are like arseholes, everyone has one.



Well said.


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## badassdebate

I have to say, I have come to accept I am a feedee, I am very aroused by eating and gaining weight and I am involved with an awesome FA (he is the complete package) who does encourage my gaining (and I know he would perfer I was enormously obese) BUT he does not madate it or make me feel I would be better that way, actually when I said I wanted to do this he actually discouraged me at first lol to be sure I was doing it for me (though the fact it makes me more desireable is a turn on for me)....I am gaining and I love having a feeder who is supportive but not an enforcer...we have agreed at a set weight for me to gain to, to see how the progression is going, but I don't think it's a bad thing to gain weight for someone as long as you are doing it for yourself too, but I am being honest, it is for him as well....and I am sick of not eating what I want when I smoke lol


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## LillyBBBW

badassdebate said:


> I have to say, I have come to accept I am a feedee, I am very aroused by eating and gaining weight and I am involved with an awesome FA (he is the complete package) who does encourage my gaining (and I know he would perfer I was enormously obese) BUT he does not madate it or make me feel I would be better that way, actually when I said I wanted to do this he actually discouraged me at first lol to be sure I was doing it for me (though the fact it makes me more desireable is a turn on for me)....I am gaining and I love having a feeder who is supportive but not an enforcer...we have agreed at a set weight for me to gain to, to see how the progression is going, but I don't think it's a bad thing to gain weight for someone as long as you are doing it for yourself too, but I am being honest, it is for him as well....and I am sick of not eating what I want when I smoke lol



Welcome to the board badassdebate.


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## rubenesquehunny

hey Lily, I am Sarah of badassdebate but I just made this one instead with a more descriptive name for myself lol...I love the discussions and I can't wait to see where it goes...I understand the concern of a feeder exploiting the person he/she is with, but if there is a mutual agreement before hand, then I just think it's fine, it's actually what I am doing now, and because it is my decision to get fatter (cause bigger IS better!) he supports me and also happens to LOVE watching me eat and feeding me lol it's a win/win!!


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## LillyBBBW

rubenesquehunny said:


> hey Lily, I am Sarah of badassdebate but I just made this one instead with a more descriptive name for myself lol...I love the discussions and I can't wait to see where it goes...I understand the concern of a feeder exploiting the person he/she is with, but if there is a mutual agreement before hand, then I just think it's fine, it's actually what I am doing now, and because it is my decision to get fatter (cause bigger IS better!) he supports me and also happens to LOVE watching me eat and feeding me lol it's a win/win!!



Hey Sarah!  Just so you know, the Webmaster would have changed your name had you asked. Then you wouldn't have had to create two new names. The first one was on a pretty good roll too.  This discussion is kinda old. You've actually revived it after it's been dead a year or more. If you've got something you want to say though go on an blurt it out. Maybe you can get the ball rolling again.


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## rubenesquehunny

Oh Lily had I known that lol I would have just made the request!! Oh well, I am letting the other one pass, I love policy debate lol but it is not the right name for this forum lol

I guess for me, there is a certain mental image of feeder and/or feedee that inspires thoughts of oppression and potential abuse....and as I can see how that can happen, I would agrue that can happen in any relationship and in that situation, the abuser is using food as a weapon.....but for me, my feeder/feedee relationship has opened my life up both sexually and emotionally in a way I would hope everyone feels....Don't get me wrong, you should always get validation from your own self and sense of being, but when you hear negaitivity all your life on being fat and enjoying food (food is a fuel like gas to a car to be used and not enjoyed) it is so liberating to have someone come along and say "not only are you awesome as fat as you are, but if you want, I would love you to get bigger!" which makes my knees go weak to be honest lol....now I don't like stuffing so that isn't my thing (the activity, love the food lol) but I love having the control of my life to decide to gain the weight, do so on purpose, and doing it with a man (who as you all know by now is an avid FA) who not only enjoys each pound I gain, but also finds is so sexy and erotic watching me eat those calories.....if I stopped now he would be fine with it but I wouldn't lol.....so just wanted to say that to this thread lol since I have accepted and now embraced being a feedee I feel sexier, hungier and much more womanly....just putting that out there


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## LillyBBBW

rubenesquehunny said:


> Oh Lily had I known that lol I would have just made the request!! Oh well, I am letting the other one pass, I love policy debate lol but it is not the right name for this forum lol
> 
> I guess for me, there is a certain mental image of feeder and/or feedee that inspires thoughts of oppression and potential abuse....and as I can see how that can happen, I would agrue that can happen in any relationship and in that situation, the abuser is using food as a weapon.....but for me, my feeder/feedee relationship has opened my life up both sexually and emotionally in a way I would hope everyone feels....Don't get me wrong, you should always get validation from your own self and sense of being, but when you hear negaitivity all your life on being fat and enjoying food (food is a fuel like gas to a car to be used and not enjoyed) it is so liberating to have someone come along and say "not only are you awesome as fat as you are, but if you want, I would love you to get bigger!" which makes my knees go weak to be honest lol....now I don't like stuffing so that isn't my thing (the activity, love the food lol) but I love having the control of my life to decide to gain the weight, do so on purpose, and doing it with a man (who as you all know by now is an avid FA) who not only enjoys each pound I gain, but also finds is so sexy and erotic watching me eat those calories.....if I stopped now he would be fine with it but I wouldn't lol.....so just wanted to say that to this thread lol since I have accepted and now embraced being a feedee I feel sexier, hungier and much more womanly....just putting that out there



I so agree. It's great to have you here Sarah.


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## rubenesquehunny

Thanks so much Lily!! I have been posting all over cause I like this site better than most others I visit lol, but I had to write a paper lol so thank god that is done!!! I do love this site and the creators and mods are awesome for all the hard work and it is paying off in spades!! Love it here!!


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## pdt

I've sort of skimmed the thread >_>.

But it seems like there is a lot of hang-up on whether a feeder is exploiting a feedee for his own pleasure.

As somebody who identifies, in a very sexual way, as a gainer/feedee, this argument bugs me. There are people, like myself, who legitimately get off on being fat and getting fatter. I fail to consider it exploitation if I am a co-conspirator in the process of fattening me up.

It's different if the relationship is abusive, mind you, but an abusive relationship is just that. It doesn't matter if the couple is into feederism, BDSM, or has to have sex in full clothing with the lights off. If the relationship is abusive, then that's what it is. If one party seriously gets off on being dominated, or fattened, or whatever the case, then the relationship is not what I would consider abusive unless the following important condition is in place:
One party is placing the other party in clear and present danger, against their will, with no possibility of recourse.

So, it's like, let's say I plan to weigh 500 lbs eventually. Advisable? No. Terribly sexy to me? Yes. 
Let's say I end up with somebody who wants to push me harder to reach this obesity goal. Is it an unhealthy course of action? Yes. Will I be surrendering some control of my body and habits to another human being? Yes. Will this be like a non-stop sexy party in my weird brain? Absolutely. Is this person abusing me? No.
However...
Let's say I put on about 70 lbs and realize that my body won't be able to stand up to it as well as I imagined. In a non-abusive relationship, I broach this topic, and all intentional weight gain ceases. 
In an abusive relationship, I am threatened or coerced with actual, dangerous force or psychological terror to keep putting on weight that I am no longer comfortable with putting on.

In my mind, at least, the weight gain is a completely separate thing from the abuse, although the abuse may lead to weight gain, as in the above scenario. The two should not be confused with each other, though.


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## Pearfectssbhm

Ssbhm feedee+ FFA feeder= HEAVEN


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## Fatfanplus

Don't want to blow my own horn here, but this subject in particular was discussed in great detail on the latest episode (episode 4) of my podcast "The Gaining Life".

It's a 2 part interview with an encourager named "BBencourgr" and even though he's a gay man, his views on weight gain, feeding are not aimed at the male specifically, but at the process itself. It's really something to listen to, I hope you give it a shot.

Part 2 of his interview is going up tonight, Wednesday.

The podcast is at: http://thegaininglife.tumblr.com/

Russ


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## Sasquatch!

pdt said:


> I've sort of skimmed the thread >_>.
> 
> But it seems like there is a lot of hang-up on whether a feeder is exploiting a feedee for his own pleasure.
> 
> As somebody who identifies, in a very sexual way, as a gainer/feedee, this argument bugs me. There are people, like myself, who legitimately get off on being fat and getting fatter. I fail to consider it exploitation if I am a co-conspirator in the process of fattening me up.
> 
> It's different if the relationship is abusive, mind you, but an abusive relationship is just that. It doesn't matter if the couple is into feederism, BDSM, or has to have sex in full clothing with the lights off. If the relationship is abusive, then that's what it is. If one party seriously gets off on being dominated, or fattened, or whatever the case, then the relationship is not what I would consider abusive unless the following important condition is in place:
> One party is placing the other party in clear and present danger, against their will, with no possibility of recourse.
> 
> So, it's like, let's say I plan to weigh 500 lbs eventually. Advisable? No. Terribly sexy to me? Yes.
> Let's say I end up with somebody who wants to push me harder to reach this obesity goal. Is it an unhealthy course of action? Yes. Will I be surrendering some control of my body and habits to another human being? Yes. Will this be like a non-stop sexy party in my weird brain? Absolutely. Is this person abusing me? No.
> However...
> Let's say I put on about 70 lbs and realize that my body won't be able to stand up to it as well as I imagined. In a non-abusive relationship, I broach this topic, and all intentional weight gain ceases.
> In an abusive relationship, I am threatened or coerced with actual, dangerous force or psychological terror to keep putting on weight that I am no longer comfortable with putting on.
> 
> In my mind, at least, the weight gain is a completely separate thing from the abuse, although the abuse may lead to weight gain, as in the above scenario. The two should not be confused with each other, though.



Abuse is usually far more subtle than "Oh go on, eat more" or "Eat more I'mma shank you".
Not to mention the desire we all have to please our partners can alter the way we think. When relationships end, people often look back and say "What the hell was I thinking? How did I ever agree/want/find that attractive?"


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## Ample Pie

I've always said that the focus on feedees as victims is more of a problem with non-feedists than feedists. If you believe that I am the victim of my own sexuality and you don't even know me, well that's *your *problem.


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## loopytheone

My mother is a big believer that feeders are something disgusting and slimy that exist to abuse and deceive their poor little victim of a partner. Understandably as somebody who enjoys both the feedee and feeder aspect of things this annoys me quite a lot, though she is too much of a bigoted old woman for it to be worth me bothering to explain things properly to. She once called me a feeder as a insult and I guess she thought it worked because I went all shocked and red and flushed... actually my immediate thought was 'How does she know? How does she know? Is she reading my messages or something?!'! :doh: 

Both me and my partner are neutral about gaining weight, though I will admit that I am loving the idea of him getting bigger! But we enjoy the feeding aspect itself, which I guess is a bit different from most feeder/feedee type people. Then again, I never do anything 'normally'!


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## TwoSwords

I've always thought that there was a significant difference between feederism and gainerism, that not all people who enjoy eating/feeding others do so from a desire for them to gain weight (indeed, most of the people in the world who enjoy feeding others don't have this as their motive at all.) There's nothing wrong with handing someone a sandwich if they're hungry, and the nothing wrong with being happy that they then enjoy the sandwich, and benefit from it. In reality, I think very few feeders *or* feedees actively pursue immobility. There's other, safer, more-temporary ways to experience the kinds of feelings often associated with that.

I've been reading through the first page, though, and I do have to :doh: every time someone brings up "mental issues" as an explanation for aberrant behavior or unusual desires; especially being a researcher as both a hobby and a job. This isn't the 1500s anymore, and we have names and thorough descriptions of just about every type of actual, mental illness there is. Each one has distinct symptoms and can be diagnosed by recognizing those symptoms. It's how psychologists are able to recognize a real case of Stockholm Syndrome, as opposed to someone who learned to like a formerly-abusive person when they changed their ways. What kind of mental illness do we think a specific person has, and what symptoms do they show, which would indicate that?

I just think a lot of people use words synonymous with "crazy" to avoid studying the issues more closely.


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## Fat Molly

TwoSwords said:


> I've always thought that there was a significant difference between feederism and gainerism, that not all people who enjoy eating/feeding others do so from a desire for them to gain weight (indeed, most of the people in the world who enjoy feeding others don't have this as their motive at all.)
> 
> 
> In reality, I think very few feeders *or* feedees actively pursue immobility. There's other, safer, more-temporary ways to experience the kinds of feelings often associated with that.
> 
> I've been reading through the first page, though, and I do have to :doh: every time someone brings up "mental issues" as an explanation for aberrant behavior or unusual desires. <snip> I just think a lot of people use words synonymous with "crazy" to avoid studying the issues more closely.




good points here. a lot of this stuff is the stuff ive been thinking about intently with regards to my partner in the 'worry as an FA' thread. 

most ppl on tumblr who claim to be pursuing immobility are either thin or average or just barely chubby. and i look at them and think, lol, do you have any idea? bc i feel like many of them are underinformed or overoptimistic about what it would mean to be immobile. 

i think there *can* be elements of feedism that are intentionally self-destructive but it should never be thought of as a necessary component of feedist tendencies - even among depressed people. my feedee and feeder and gainer kink exists even when my depression/borderline symptoms aren't too significant - in fact, they're more active when my depression/borderline is alleviated. 

I like what alienlanes said about the collection of planets surrounding the central kink of erotic wg.


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## pdt

There's a lot to unpack with me. As a feedee, personally, I'm fascinated by immobility, mostly as like a bdsm-adjacent submission fetish thing. Mostly I just like the idea of my weight being out of my control.

I imagine I'll probably have to re-evaluate my position like 200 lbs from now, but for now I'm moderately active and fully independent around 300 lbs, and have never met a force feeding that I'm not extremely turned on by.


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## choudhury

This is a very long thread. Scanning it, I'm struck by how much confusion or uncertainty exists around the concept of "feeder." (We seem pretty clear on what a "feedee" is, i.e., someone who is sexually aroused by being fed and gaining weight). But on "feeder," we seem confused about whether there is a meaningful difference between "feeder" and "enabler" or "encourager" etc. 

Speaking for myself, I love when a woman overeats and when she gains weight. But I don't draw any particular thrill from being the agent DIRECTLY contributing to these things. That is, it's not about ME feeding her (whether through subterfuge or directly, or through pressure or consent, or whatever). It's about her choosing to eat a lot, basically.

Now the "enabling" part creeps in insofar as I'm happy to provide a safe and loving - and yes, even food-filled - environment for my lady to eat a lot. I suppose I "enable" every time I buy a dessert or propose going out for ice cream. But that seems like a pretty darned indirect species of "feeding," especially since I'd be doing these things anyway if I were on my own. And again, if I say "let's get Dairy Queen" and she says "yes," I'm not being turned on by the fact that I initiated this, so much as the fact that she ends up overfull from her order. 

If I had to arbitrate all this, I'd say we're probably better off defining "feeder" in a narrow way that ties sexual excitement to being the feeding agent, rather than in a loose way that slides over into characteristics of nearly all FAs (most of whom enjoy overeating and weight gain).


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## ChattyBecca

Ample Pie said:


> I've always said that the focus on feedees as victims is more of a problem with non-feedists than feedists. If you believe that I am the victim of my own sexuality and you don't even know me, well that's *your *problem.



AMEN!!!! Couldn't agree more!


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## John Smith

I was browsing around the earliest pages of this thread.

I was amazed. So fluid, so refined. So witty
That was truly the Golden Age of this website... what happened to these giants before us?


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## TwoSwords

John Smith said:


> I was browsing around the earliest pages of this thread.
> 
> I was amazed. So fluid, so refined. So witty
> That was truly the Golden Age of this website... what happened to these giants before us?



Sadly, to summon giants is a thing for gods, not men. A man has only the qualities of himself, and though he may increase those qualities with skill, the one quality that he can never increase is his amount.

As for the qualities of wit, refinement and fluidity, however, some still find them simple, but again, sadly, not myself. I am under a curse, you see; that I can learn only those things which can be taught or demonstrated, so my wit can rise no higher than the wit of those whose word I read, my refinement no further than my meager experiences make possible.

That only leaves fluidity, and there, I'm afraid that mine rests at a little over half, and no further. However, perhaps it's just as well, since a man more fluid might lose other qualities like these.

Yes. I'm watching Cyrano as I write this. Why?


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## John Smith

TwoSwords said:


> Sadly, to summon giants is a thing for gods, not men. A man has only the qualities of himself, and though he may increase those qualities with skill, the one quality that he can never increase is his amount.
> 
> As for the qualities of wit, refinement and fluidity, however, some still find them simple, but again, sadly, not myself. I am under a curse, you see; that I can learn only those things which can be taught or demonstrated, so my wit can rise no higher than the wit of those whose word I read, my refinement no further than my meager experiences make possible.
> 
> That only leaves fluidity, and there, I'm afraid that mine rests at a little over half, and no further. However, perhaps it's just as well, since a man more fluid might lose other qualities like these.
> 
> Yes. I'm watching Cyrano as I write this. Why?



The Curse of the Men...


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## Axof

I am a closet feeder. Been that my whole life and I am comfortable with that. My main issue is the health of my partner. Provided both partners are equally into it, still the feeder has by far the upper hand mentally and physically, he satisfy his kink without much downside while the feedee is the one who has to deal with the health (and social) issues. Also I fear if one is a "hardcore" feeder, he may not be ever satisfied and may constantly push or loose interest in the partner if things do not go his way. 
So yes, I do have issue with it.... to the point that I simply do not act on the kink - not everything has to be played in real life, some things may better stay in ones head. Luckily there are stories, videos and my own art that I can channel my sexual preference. I found out this is by far the easiest and cheapest way to be feeder and no tears, broken relationships or health issues. And my partner somehow grows naturally and constantly anyway (she is not that happy about it, but also not miserable either).


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## John Smith

Axof said:


> I am a closet feeder. [...]



... which one of us aren't??

Unless you are either the partner of a controversally recognized feedee model who showed out herself in mainstream media or partner to a "Body Positivity" Instagram "influencer" who continually keep to tease the feederist community while feigning not being a feedee (*rackling* Loey Lane!!) , nay King Steph's unfortunate sugar daddy, none of is
would certainly highlight on our professional resumes such abilities like "_fattening up hyperphagic individuals until they grow fat_" and other things!


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## Axof

John Smith said:


> ... which one of us aren't??
> 
> Unless you are either the partner of a controversally recognized feedee model who showed out herself in mainstream media or partner to a "Body Positivity" Instagram "influencer" who continually keep to tease the feederist community while feigning not being a feedee (*rackling* Loey Lane!!) , nay King Steph's unfortunate sugar daddy, none of is
> would certainly highlight on our professional resumes such abilities like "_fattening up hyperphagic individuals until they grow fat_" and other things!


 I guess that is probably true. The boards and videos make feederism/weight gain to look like one of the "things" but I bet in real life it is still much more a fringe behavior and looks sickening to vast majority. I mean most of my friends would definitely see it as a serious perversion.
I used to be maybe 220-230 pounds (I was concisely stuffing myself and trying to gain) and the downsides of it for the majority of normal life started to be really taxing to the point when I just said enough one day. F**k my darn fat kink. I am not going to be a prisoner of my own twisted mind. I slimmed down to like 160-170 and realized that these things probably really should be enjoyed as a fantasy on internet where it is easy to switch on and off whenever I want it. Now if I need a good dose of feederism I read some stories, watch some videos or make some 3D art and boom, switch it off when I am done with it.


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## John Smith

Personally, I don't mind about people's judgement. Every single ex-friend who was infiomed about my kink toward gaining women and my feeder pursuits had far much worse fetishes.


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## Jon Blaze

My how the tables have turned.

I guess my perspective is unique given that I started by being opposed. Initially it wasn't even a possibility. I literally ignored all feedee paysite content for roughly a decade. Even as I embrace this as my kink I remain very critical of all the unwarranted pressure BBW/BHMs receive to gain from random people. Also the horror stories of failed (and in some cases nonconsensual) relationships. But it all started to click when I realized the narrative can revolve around the feedees' happiness and comfort. Yes many people are lying about it for attention and money. But I've developed a strong attraction to the few women that really enjoy it. I've always been a partner-focused guy. I suppose that always meant there was potential for me to develop this trait.

For now this is my preferred type of relationship. But I definitely lean closer to being a traditional FA at the 450-600 range. However, if someone wants me to get them there: I will oblige. That's why I'm different. It's not just their choice. It doesn't do anything for me if they're gaining solely for my enjoyment. I'm not pressuring anyone that doesn't want me to. Period.


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## waldo

Jon Blaze said:


> My how the tables have turned.
> 
> I guess my perspective is unique given that I started by being opposed. Initially it wasn't even a possibility. I literally ignored all feedee paysite content for roughly a decade. Even as I embrace this as my kink I remain very critical of all the unwarranted pressure BBW/BHMs receive to gain from random people. Also the horror stories of failed (and in some cases nonconsensual) relationships. But it all started to click when I realized the narrative can revolve around the feedees happiness and comfort. Yes many people are lying about it for attention and money. But I've developed a strong attraction to the few women that really enjoy it. I've always been a partner-focused guy. I suppose that always meant there was potential for me to develop this trait.
> 
> For now this is my preferred type of relationship. But I definitely lean closer to being a traditional FA at the 450-600 range. However, if someone wants me to get them there: I will oblige. That's why I'm different. It's not just their choice. It doesn't do anything for me if they're gaining solely for my enjoyment. I'm not pressuring anyone that doesn't want me to. Period.



Good job Jon!!! You have embraced your self while still being true to the belief that everyone must be in control of their own destiny. Just remember that the numbers on the scale or the measuring tape are less important than being a good partner/spouse. Best wishes to you, young man!


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## TheShannan

I'm in a mutual feeder/feedee relationship. My boyfriend is loving, supportive, stable and he actually feeds. He purchases my meals, snacks, delivery etc. A former feeder I had just told me what to eat on my own dime. That's not a feeder. That's a "feeder".


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## luckyfa

Wondering if I am potential feeder. I am a longterm FA (+30 years) and enjoyed my wife’s weight gain of about 130 lbs she has achieved on her own. I just didn‘t prevent her from eating because I love to see her eat and I admire her appetite. I marvel at the fact that she can keep herself in check for months and then gain 15 lbs in six weeks. I’ve always honestly told her that I love her no matter what and that her excess body fat body turns me on. I‘ve always felt that more fat is better and I once told her that I sometimes imagine her being even fatter. She firmly declined and this was fine because I wasn‘t even sure if I truly wanted it.

So this behaviour might characterize me as an enabler or an encourager. I‘ve only discovered that there‘s such a thing as feedism in the early 2000s and it didn‘t sit well with me because it seemed obsessive and intrusive to me, even immoral. To this day, I enjoy the playfulness of her weight gain, including her ups and downs.

However, my attitude has shifted quite a bit in recent years, especialls since the pandemic hit. Way before the pandemic, her weight had reached a 25-year-low and then it crept up very very slowly for about a 1 ½ years. When Covid-19 came upon is, her weight gain accelerated, but at least in the first lockdown, not dramatically. This changed during the second lockdown. As her weight gain accelerated, I began to discover my feeder tendencies, especially since her body fat ratio increased disproportionally. She regained about 45 lbs in 3 ½ years, half of which in less than 1 ½ years. She‘s now almost as fat relatively speaking as she was when she had reached her peak weight. She knows that I love it and I know that more is better, in principle. However, I believe that she‘s only aware of her absolute weight gain but not of her increased body fat ratio.

Those feeder tendencies didn‘t materialize because I am almost 100% sure that she wouldn‘t want it. I still enjoy those playful, voluntary-involuntary gains so I am still not sure whether I wanted to force things even if she wanted. 

So things are very unlikely to change but those feeder tendencies are now undeniable. Imagining being a feeder seemed to be a thought crime to me only a few years ago. 

Somehow, I have to come to terms with these tendencies, not because they‘re immoral per se, but because I don‘t want to become manipulative by seducing her into over-eating. Maybe I‘ve always done that anyway, unconsciously most of the time.


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## waldo

luckyfa said:


> Wondering if I am potential feeder. I am a longterm FA (+30 years) and enjoyed my wife’s weight gain of about 130 lbs she has achieved on her own. I just didn‘t prevent her from eating because I love to see her eat and I admire her appetite. I marvel at the fact that she can keep herself in check for months and then gain 15 lbs in six weeks. I’ve always honestly told her that I love her no matter what and that her excess body fat body turns me on. I‘ve always felt that more fat is better and I once told her that I sometimes imagine her being even fatter. She firmly declined and this was fine because I wasn‘t even sure if I truly wanted it.
> 
> So this behaviour might characterize me as an enabler or an encourager. I‘ve only discovered that there‘s such a thing as feedism in the early 2000s and it didn‘t sit well with me because it seemed obsessive and intrusive to me, even immoral. To this day, I enjoy the playfulness of her weight gain, including her ups and downs.
> 
> However, my attitude has shifted quite a bit in recent years, especialls since the pandemic hit. Way before the pandemic, her weight had reached a 25-year-low and then it crept up very very slowly for about a 1 ½ years. When Covid-19 came upon is, her weight gain accelerated, but at least in the first lockdown, not dramatically. This changed during the second lockdown. As her weight gain accelerated, I began to discover my feeder tendencies, especially since her body fat ratio increased disproportionally. She regained about 45 lbs in 3 ½ years, half of which in less than 1 ½ years. She‘s now almost as fat relatively speaking as she was when she had reached her peak weight. She knows that I love it and I know that more is better, in principle. However, I believe that she‘s only aware of her absolute weight gain but not of her increased body fat ratio.
> 
> Those feeder tendencies didn‘t materialize because I am almost 100% sure that she wouldn‘t want it. I still enjoy those playful, voluntary-involuntary gains so I am still not sure whether I wanted to force things even if she wanted.
> 
> So things are very unlikely to change but those feeder tendencies are now undeniable. Imagining being a feeder seemed to be a thought crime to me only a few years ago.
> 
> Somehow, I have to come to terms with these tendencies, not because they‘re immoral per se, but because I don‘t want to become manipulative by seducing her into over-eating. Maybe I‘ve always done that anyway, unconsciously most of the time.



I think all 'hard core' FAs are potential feeders. But I suspect most are like myself and you (like you, I identify more as : encourager/enabler)
In particular, this section of your post is a good summary of the issues:
" I‘ve always felt that more fat is better and I once told her that I sometimes imagine her being even fatter. She firmly declined and this was fine because I wasn‘t even sure if I truly wanted it."
By telling her that you imagined/wished her larger, you are enabling future weight gain. And by being turned on by weight gain that has happened you feed (no pun intended) the cycle. I've totally been there but also understand the "wasn‘t even sure if I truly wanted it." Health concerns and just practical issues around mobility and other daily life limitations will come into play if you sit back and really examine from a realistic standpoint.


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## luckyfa

waldo said:


> Health concerns and just practical issues around mobility and other daily life limitations will come into play if you sit back and really examine from a realistic standpoint.



Thank you for your thoughtful reply. That‘s right, fatness is not the only thing in life and a relationship that‘s important.


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## SSBHM

I read a story here recently that told of a young lady's inexplicable passion for fat boys. It was a very sweet, well written, and gentle story about the undeniable innate yearning for someone that had a good appetite, confident demeanor, and stout figure. It didn't indicate that she would force him to eat more, but on a date she couldn't finish her meal and offered it to him to enjoy. At which point the story goes, she had a hard time not being mesmerized by his swollen belly. 

Ok, so I wanted to write a response that reflects how this yearning is inherent in me but for a woman or lady to be so inclined to indulge, bulge, and to enjoy doing and being so. I don't want to feel like I have forced someone to do something that is not what they want to do, but encouraging, appreciating, and being enraptured by it, pretty much covers it. 

Oh, I also have found my own desire to indulge and bulge. It's exciting for some inherent reason that I don't fully understand. Health, physical capability, and social pressures obviously do play some role, but emotions, feelings, or innate desire can't be easily overcome by these factors. I wonder if others feel like I do?


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