# Link to view the Dr. OZ show with Susan Eman



## Paul (Sep 23, 2011)

Here is a link to the video of Susan Eman's appearance on the Dr. OZ show.

Dying to be the world's fattest woman: http://www.doctoroz.com/videos/dying-be-fattest-woman-pt-1


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 24, 2011)

She keeps repeating "but I'm healthy." NO, you're not. She has the right to do whatever the fuck she wants to her own body, but that doesn't mean she's correct. It's not that fat = unhealthy (although I personally doubt anyone can be 700 pounds and still be healthy) but he points out five major risk factors to her health: mobility issues, high blood sugar, high triglycerides, inability to receive all treatments/tests because of size and past history of blood clots/pulmonary embolisms. "But............... I'm healthy." She clearly refuses to listen to the evidence even when it's shoved in her face.


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## CarlaSixx (Sep 24, 2011)

Just watched every part of this. Susan angers me. Like, in all honesty, I'm not usually offended as a fat person listening to other people who are fat and want to remain fat, nor am I offended at guys who want woman to get fatter... but something about Susan's cold answers just angered me. She did not keep any composure as some would believe. She downright just acted like a robot.

As for when he interviewed AJ and the other guy... It is very obvious that some editing was done, and I'm sorry they did that to you.


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## Shosh (Sep 24, 2011)

CarlaSixx said:


> Just watched every part of this. Susan angers me. Like, in all honesty, I'm not usually offended as a fat person listening to other people who are fat and want to remain fat, nor am I offended at guys who want woman to get fatter... but something about Susan's cold answers just angered me. She did not keep any composure as some would believe. She downright just acted like a robot.
> 
> As for when he interviewed AJ and the other guy... It is very obvious that some editing was done, and I'm sorry they did that to you.



Just so you know her name is Susanne. It may seem trivial to some that we ask for our names to be quoted correctly, but when you have such a name, ie my name is Susannah and not Susan or Susanne, I would ask people to take a moment to notice and use the proper name.


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## CarlaSixx (Sep 24, 2011)

Shosh said:


> Just so you know her name is Susanne. It may seem trivial to some that we ask for our names to be quoted correctly, but when you have such a name, ie my name is Susannah and not Susan or Susanne, I would ask people to take a moment to notice and use the proper name.



It was written that way in the title of the thread. I was going by the title, thinking the OP was right.

So I'm not the only one who was wrong. I know there's different spellings. My aunt is Suzanne, but it's French. So I wasn't sure.

Thanks for bitching at just me, though


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## Shosh (Sep 24, 2011)

CarlaSixx said:


> It was written that way in the title of the thread. I was going by the title, thinking the OP was right.
> 
> So I'm not the only one who was wrong. I know there's different spellings. My aunt is Suzanne, but it's French. So I wasn't sure.
> 
> Thanks for bitching at just me, though



I am not bitching at you, but you can understand how frustrating it is for someone such as myself who is often called an incorrect name, like Susan or Susanne, when my name is Susannah.

Anyway as per the other thread that spells her name out and has been here for a few weeks and is quite prominent, her name is Susanne.

Regarding the link, I cannot view it as I am outside North America. I have seen previews of the show, and it may find it's way onto YouTube in the next few days.


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## CarlaSixx (Sep 24, 2011)

Re: name spelling... Totally understandable.

I fear even some gainers and feeders would be offended by this show  While I don't participate in that side, I don't shame any for it. It's just her attitude... or lack of one... that's irritating.


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## Saoirse (Sep 24, 2011)

meh couldnt even watch.


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## tinkerbell (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm watching the last segment right now. And honestly, the best 2 words to describe her - DENIAL and sad. She claims to eat "healthy" - it would be very hard physically for someone to eat 20,000 calories a day of "healthy" food. 

I hope that she finds the help that she needs - because it is so glaringly obvious that she needs help.


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## Heyyou (Sep 24, 2011)

Saoirse said:


> meh couldnt even watch.



I have the file on my hard drive and im still debating watching it.

It really sounds as if she made such a fool of herself that perhaps its not even worth watching.

Then again, it portends itself to be a "SA" issue. So maybe i should.........

I honestly dont know. How long is the segment? I now have the -choice- of watching it if i want to.

Was it *THAT* bad? I think it was our prayer that a SBBBW on TV would shed a positive light on SA issues........................ and also to be treated fairly by the media. It sounds as if neithe rof these things has happened...

Tell you what, ill watch it right now and share my thoughts, if i have any.

EDIT: "Today's show will shock you." I am not easily shocked unless its by nastily graphic pics....

2. Around 45 seconds in, the newspaper headlines flashed on screen seem to tell the truth. "She should be locked up for her own good" one said. "Attention seeker" another said. I like how Dr. Oz said he was "dumbfounded" as a doctor. Its true, doctors are supposed to keep their patients healthy....

3. She would be DEAD well before "1600+" lbs. I think Dr. Oz surprised me.. I _am_ shocked.

(Gluttony, anyone?) And she is only 32... 

I dont like this. 

4. 1:49: "I enjoy the freedom of eating whatever i want, whenever i want." - Yeah, i do too. Ive been there, doing the "Eat out 100%" thing. But there are limits. I need $$$ for other things, AND i get full. And its hard to find a more avid "I eat out a lot BECAUSE I CAN" person than me.. but it gets to the point where you WANT to eat in, for a variety of reasons, the most prominent one being 1. How all those carbs make you feel over time and 2. Variety/cost.

In conclusion.. Even if she was MAYBE being vocal about the "I can do it because anyone else can" (I have heard others say the same thing, Queen Raqui comes to mind,) they are ultimately dismissed as side-shows because they act as though people are FORCED to accept them, though people's common sensibilities are offended when they see someone of that size AND GAINING say they "are healthy" while others say they "need help." It trivializes the "I need help" ones.


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## ThatFatGirl (Sep 24, 2011)

This is now the third thread on the main board about Susanne... perhaps it can be merged with the second or something?


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## Jes (Sep 24, 2011)

Part of me wants to take the other side of the argument on, too. For the fetishists who love fat, who love the extreme, who love gaining, who dream in their heart of hearts of truly giant women... why are any of you bitching at all? Don't get me wrong--I know not everyone desires that, but surely some do. Perhaps they're being quiet right now. But we hear all sorts of pro-fat (and I mean FAT) rhetoric here (giantess talk, gluttony talk, immobility talk) but when you have a woman saying and doing just that, and going on TV to do it, suddenly it's all hands on the angry, disapproving deck. Do any of you (and I'm speaking to the silent majority mostly, I think) judge yourselves the same way for liking this stuff?


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 24, 2011)

Wow Susanne:bow: really has nerves of steel... the doc would've had most guests weeping:sad: halfway thru... worth noting that Tiger Devore the Fetish Expert is a hermaphrodite with a vagina:batting: who takes high doses of testosterone and works out:bounce: hours a day to 'present' as a handsome:huh: Metrosexual... wonder what she/he envisions while wanking?:eat2: Oz, maybe!


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 24, 2011)

Jes said:


> Part of me wants to take the other side of the argument on, too. For the fetishists who love fat, who love the extreme, who love gaining, who dream in their heart of hearts of truly giant women... why are any of you bitching at all? Don't get me wrong--I know not everyone desires that, but surely some do. Perhaps they're being quiet right now. But we hear all sorts of pro-fat (and I mean FAT) rhetoric here (giantess talk, gluttony talk, immobility talk) but when you have a woman saying and doing just that, and going on TV to do it, suddenly it's all hands on the angry, disapproving deck. Do any of you (and I'm speaking to the silent majority mostly, I think) judge yourselves the same way for liking this stuff?


http://youtu.be/qQ_vRIbkyJg :kiss2:


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## NancyGirl74 (Sep 24, 2011)

I would guess that most extreme gainer fetishists are only so in fantasy. Speaking from that angle there is a reason why so few fantasies become reality...because they are not feasible or appropriate. What goes on in someone's head is their business. When they take those thoughts and make them reality they become the business of those affected by their actions. A woman choosing to gain to an extreme weight is one of those things. Sure, it is her body, her health, her life...but that would only be a valid argument if she were able to pay all her own bills (food, clothing, housing, medical) without the aid of lovers, friends, family, the medical field & insurance, and the government. And what of those who love her. Her children, for example? They did not choose this and they are directly affected by her actions. What this woman (and women like her) is doing is not her own business when the people around her are hurt by her purposeful, reckless, and completely selfish actions. AND it is no longer just her business when she goes on national TV to try and justify herself to the world. I'm sorry but the world is going to have something to say. If people haven't learned that by now then they are truly living in a fantasy.


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## Emma (Sep 24, 2011)

She makes me so angry. That smile and that laugh. She really thinks she knows everything, doesn't she? 

I don't care if she eats herself to death - I honestly culdn't care, if that is what she enjoys/turns her on. I wish she would just come out and say that she doesn't care.


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## The Orange Mage (Sep 24, 2011)

Jes said:


> Part of me wants to take the other side of the argument on, too. For the fetishists who love fat, who love the extreme, who love gaining, who dream in their heart of hearts of truly giant women... why are any of you bitching at all? Don't get me wrong--I know not everyone desires that, but surely some do. Perhaps they're being quiet right now. But we hear all sorts of pro-fat (and I mean FAT) rhetoric here (giantess talk, gluttony talk, immobility talk) but when you have a woman saying and doing just that, and going on TV to do it, suddenly it's all hands on the angry, disapproving deck. Do any of you (and I'm speaking to the silent majority mostly, I think) judge yourselves the same way for liking this stuff?



You have hit a certain nail on the head here, Jes. I know that I'm far too fetish-shamed to bother sharing my views around here 99% of the time when it comes to sexual topics. Like I might have said before, Dimensions, and interestingly fat/size-acceptance blogs have over time made me feel pretty bad about what I like. NO ONE has ever made me feel bad about liking what I like except two kinds of people: fellow FAs and such who set a terrible example, and most hurtfully fat women themselves.


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## FrancescaBombshell (Sep 24, 2011)

I was annoyed by Dr.Oz and her.. Him because he treated her like dirt and her because she basically proved what people already think about over weight people.. It did nothing at all for size acceptance. I do believe she set it back.


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 24, 2011)

I was struck by the enormous level of denial on her part. She mentioned at least a dozen times that she's healthy. She says that her doctor and her children are fine with her lifestyle. She repeats again and again that she's healthy. Dr. Oz breaks it down for her with real, impartial numbers. She is clearly very, very UNhealthy. This isn't bias or speculation, it is an undeniable fact. 

And she sits there and smiles with a vapid, vacant look on her face and continues to repeat that she's healthy. Healthy. She's healthy! I don't think her physical health is the imminent danger. Her emotional health is the bigger stumbling block.


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## Jes (Sep 24, 2011)

The Orange Mage said:


> and most hurtfully fat women themselves.


Can you explaina a little bit?


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## TexasTrouble (Sep 24, 2011)

TraciJo67 said:


> I was struck by the enormous level of denial on her part. She mentioned at least a dozen times that she's healthy. She says that her doctor and her children are fine with her lifestyle. She repeats again and again that she's healthy. Dr. Oz breaks it down for her with real, impartial numbers. She is clearly very, very UNhealthy. This isn't bias or speculation, it is an undeniable fact.
> 
> And she sits there and smiles with a vapid, vacant look on her face and continues to repeat that she's healthy. Healthy. She's healthy! I don't think her physical health is the imminent danger. Her emotional health is the bigger stumbling block.



When I first started watching it, I didn't think I could continue. She reminded me so much of some women I grew up around who kept smiling and smiling as their world just fell down around them. I found myself going back to the same sense of frustration I would experience back then. Especially toward the end, I kept being reminded of the grinning plastic Guy Fawkes masks. 

I did find the reactions of the FAs interesting. One actually seemed troubled by the numbers Oz was showing while another was not. And I thought Oz's comment about how neither of them would be around if (when?) major health problems occurred was spot on. It would be her children most likely who would be tasked with helping her recuperate if it would even be possible.


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## CarlaSixx (Sep 24, 2011)

I was not upset with Dr Oz. He started nicely, but someone who genuinely cares about the health and longevity of a person is going to get heated and react. That's what he did. He tried to be nice until there was no other way to act. And she still held her vacant "jackass" smile and told him she was healthy. If she's going to die, very few people will feel sorry for her, I think. The kids will get all the sorry. They already do, as they should. They have to live with her day in and day out. They have it the worst. I just hope her kids' emotional well-being will be taken care of, because it doesn't seem like she cares about anyone but herself. And even that seems like a stretch.


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## butch (Sep 24, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> Wow Susanne really has nerves of steel... the doc would've had most guests weeping halfway thru... worth noting that Tiger Devore the Fetish Expert is a hermaphrodite with a vagina:batting: who takes high doses of testosterone and works out:bounce: hours a day to 'present' as a handsome:huh: Metrosexual... wonder what she/he envisions while wanking?Oz, maybe



I don't even know where to begin with your need to discuss Tiger Devore's gender, and how that impacts Tiger's sexuality, other than to say that casting aspersions on someone else to divert one's own anxiety about their sexuality is sad. Plus, when did Tiger Devore say anything derogatory about the fat sexuality subculture?

Jeez Ned, this comment was full of :doh:.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 24, 2011)

butch said:


> I don't even know where to begin with your need to discuss Tiger Devore's gender, and how that impacts Tiger's sexuality, other than to say that casting aspersions on someone else to divert one's own anxiety about their sexuality is sad. Plus, when did Tiger Devore say anything derogatory about the fat sexuality subculture?
> 
> Jeez Ned, this comment was full of :doh:.


Sorry you feel that way Butch but Tiger has featured been on several shows such as STRANGE SEX... Tiger does good work with Intersex/Transgendered Folks(Tiger's term-of-choice), but that work has NOTHING to do with being a Fetish Expert. Being a Fetish Expert is what we call in politics, Astroturf vs Grassroots: Pontificating downward instead of representing oneself. I was not casting aspersions: that literally is Tiger's physical situation, and Oz is implying there is a line of logic. It's apples and oranges. My conjecture is that Oz owed Tiger a favor and got Tiger an appearance fee. Hope I've clarified that... not dissing Intersex/Transgendered people! Their issues have NOTHING TO DO with DIMz issues beyond sharing 'minority status' with what we deal with on DIMz. I'm angry at Oz, NOT Tiger.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 24, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> Sorry you feel that way Butch but Tiger has featured been on several shows such as STRANGE SEX... Tiger does good work with Intersex/Transgendered Folks(Tiger's term-of-choice), but that work has NOTHING to do with being a Fetish Expert. Being a Fetish Expert is what we call in politics, Astroturf vs Grassroots: Pontificating downward instead of representing oneself. I was not casting aspersions: that literally is Tiger's physical situation, and Oz is implying there is a line of logic. It's apples and oranges. My conjecture is that Oz owed Tiger a favor and got Tiger an appearance fee. Hope I've clarified that... not dissing Intersex/Transgendered people! Their issues have NOTHING TO DO with DIMz issues beyond sharing 'minority status' with what we deal with on DIMz. I'm angry at Oz, NOT Tiger.


 Hey I'm a handsome metrosexual too, if maybe not as much as 15 years ago.:doh:


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 24, 2011)

butch said:


> I don't even know where to begin with your need to discuss Tiger Devore's gender, and how that impacts Tiger's sexuality, other than to say that casting aspersions on someone else to divert one's own anxiety about their sexuality is sad. Plus, when did Tiger Devore say anything derogatory about the fat sexuality subculture?
> 
> Jeez Ned, this comment was full of :doh:.


Tiger Devore said something derogatory about the fat sexuality subculture when Oz walked over and SAID to say something derogatory about the fat sexuality subculture !!!!!!!:doh:


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 24, 2011)

butch said:


> I don't even know where to begin with your need to discuss Tiger Devore's gender, and how that impacts Tiger's sexuality, other than to say that casting aspersions on someone else to divert one's own anxiety about their sexuality is sad. Plus, when did Tiger Devore say anything derogatory about the fat sexuality subculture?
> 
> Jeez Ned, this comment was full of :doh:.


 You do realize you are ascribing motives~ accusing me of anxiety about my sexuality on a forum specifically dedicated to helping ALLAY members' anxiety about their sexuality. I have no idea who you are. You post thru a pseudonym. I am one of the VERY few posters who has NEVER used a pseudonym!! That should tell you something about MY comfort-level. Care to tell us a little about YOUR sexuality?


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 24, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> Sorry you feel that way Butch but Tiger has featured been on several shows such as STRANGE SEX... Tiger does good work with Intersex/Transgendered Folks(Tiger's term-of-choice), but that work has NOTHING to do with being a Fetish Expert. Being a Fetish Expert is what we call in politics, Astroturf vs Grassroots: Pontificating downward instead of representing oneself. I was not casting aspersions: that literally is Tiger's physical situation, and Oz is implying there is a line of logic. It's apples and oranges. My conjecture is that Oz owed Tiger a favor and got Tiger an appearance fee. Hope I've clarified that... not dissing Intersex/Transgendered people! Their issues have NOTHING TO DO with DIMz issues beyond sharing 'minority status' with what we deal with on DIMz. I'm angry at Oz, NOT Tiger.


 Erm unless of course they're Fat or Fat-admiring Intersex/Transgendered people a good number of whom I've known over the decades and counted as friends and have managed not to offend... except possibly perhaps Up Until Now !


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## Zoom (Sep 24, 2011)

For someone who's been on the board since before the current board software, Ned, you don't seem to know how to Edit Post. Just saying.


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## tinkerbell (Sep 24, 2011)

I think the world might be coming to an end.

Two posts in a row by Ned that are actually coherent enough for me to understand and there are NO emoticons in either one.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 24, 2011)

tinkerbell said:


> I think the world might be coming to an end.
> 
> Two posts in a row by Ned that are actually coherent enough for me to understand and there are NO emoticons in either one.


 Damnation via Faint Praise.:bow:
Tinkerbell and Butch sound like a Domestic Partnership made in Heaven.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 24, 2011)

Zoom said:


> For someone who's been on the board since before the current board software, Ned, you don't seem to know how to Edit Post. Just saying.


 I been on board:huh: since it was a mimeograph machine.:bounce:


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 24, 2011)

Jes said:


> Part of me wants to take the other side of the argument on, too. For the fetishists who love fat, who love the extreme, who love gaining, who dream in their heart of hearts of truly giant women... why are any of you bitching at all? Don't get me wrong--I know not everyone desires that, but surely some do. Perhaps they're being quiet right now. But we hear all sorts of pro-fat (and I mean FAT) rhetoric here (giantess talk, gluttony talk, immobility talk) but when you have a woman saying and doing just that, and going on TV to do it, suddenly it's all hands on the angry, disapproving deck. Do any of you (and I'm speaking to the silent majority mostly, I think) judge yourselves the same way for liking this stuff?



I think some of it is that for a lot of people, the gaining and immobility fantasies are just that - fantasies. As a fetishist, that's how it is for me. I have fantasies that revolve around exactly what Susanne is doing, but I'm not pursuing them because they interfere with things in my life that I consider to be far more important that orgasms (to be clear - these are MY priorities, not saying they have to be anyone elses.) Although the sexual side of me can understand these desires, the rational side of me worries about her health and about her children. 

Also, as far as judging myself.. I'd say that I do. I sometimes feel disgusted with myself over the things I fantasize about, and I do sometimes feel guilt over my attraction to people who are Susanne's size. To be frank, I've looked at her content a few times before and I do feel some guilt now that I've had a look into her personal life. It's a touchy subject.


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## Jes (Sep 24, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> Erm unless of course they're Fat or Fat-admiring Intersex/Transgendered people a good number of whom I've known over the decades and counted as friends and have managed not to offend... except possibly perhaps Up Until Now !


I'm not racist, I have black friends.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 24, 2011)

Jes said:


> I'm not racist, I have black friends.


 Another wet-noodle smackdown:bow: from the Mistress of Macaroni.


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## Jes (Sep 24, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> Another wet-noodle smackdown:bow: from the Mistress of Macaroni.



The fact that I don't like you doesn't mean every reply of mine is a smackdown. Don't get your wet noodle in a knot, Ned Sonntag.


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## SparklingBBW (Sep 25, 2011)

butch said:


> I don't even know where to begin with your need to discuss Tiger Devore's gender, and how that impacts Tiger's sexuality, other than to say that casting aspersions on someone else to divert one's own anxiety about their sexuality is sad. Plus, when did Tiger Devore say anything derogatory about the fat sexuality subculture?
> 
> Jeez Ned, this comment was full of :doh:.



Evidently Butch I need to pass some rep around, but in the meantime, Ned, is it the fact that Tigor Devore has a vagina what is so upsetting to you? Becaue people with vagina's can't be fetish experts and need to remember their purpose is to just sit there, getting fatter and fatter and eating so YOU can wank off to them? And I also don't remember him saying anything judgemental about the fat sexuality subculture. And furthermore, he is on shows like Strange Sex because he is a sexuality expert and practicing sex therapist and I've never seen him in any TV interview being anything but compassionate and understanding toward people of all sexualities and fetishes.


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## Chimpi (Sep 25, 2011)

Jes said:


> Part of me wants to take the other side of the argument on, too. For the fetishists who love fat, who love the extreme, who love gaining, who dream in their heart of hearts of truly giant women... why are any of you bitching at all? Don't get me wrong--I know not everyone desires that, but surely some do. Perhaps they're being quiet right now. But we hear all sorts of pro-fat (and I mean FAT) rhetoric here (giantess talk, gluttony talk, immobility talk) but when you have a woman saying and doing just that, and going on TV to do it, suddenly it's all hands on the angry, disapproving deck. Do any of you (and I'm speaking to the silent majority mostly, I think) judge yourselves the same way for liking this stuff?



I cannot speak for anyone except myself in relation to this subject.
I like all of that stuff. I'm also not bitching about any of it; or at least, not about her. I have no idea what her intentions are. I try not to care what her intentions are.
If she's doing it for money, then I'm pretty much okay with that. I would never do such a thing for money (display myself and my life on television to fatten my wallet). If she's doing it to increase her customer base (or amount of members), then I'm not personally on board with that. I don't enjoy the public approach to weight gain, or significant weight gain. I enjoy extreme aspects of weight gain, but I'm interested in it more for myself and the partner I'm with (conditions: she's okay with it - experiment, role-play, discuss, fantasy, whatever-the-fuck). If she's doing it to advance size/fat acceptance... well, she's not. The name of the show and the topic itself proves there's no greater agenda occurring other than "Susanne Eman." It's about her. This brings us back full-circle to ... she's either doing it for money or advertisement.

I have judged myself negatively for my views and attractions before. I do not anymore. I've learned to embrace everything I am and everything I like, and find ways to interpret and advance it _for myself_. I've been angered on this sort of subject before for various reasons, but in this specific case, I have no idea what the reasoning(s) is/are for it and truly do not care this time around. Been there, done that. I see nothing positive coming from shows such as Dr. Oz, Dr. Phil, Dr. Anything, other than critical judgement and an atmosphere to maintain any status quo.
<--- Not interested in the workings of the media machine.

Hope that helps at all...


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## Angel (Sep 25, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> Wow Susanne:bow: really has nerves of steel... the doc would've had most guests weeping:sad: halfway thru... worth noting that Tiger Devore the Fetish Expert is a hermaphrodite with a vagina:batting: who takes high doses of testosterone and works out:bounce: hours a day to 'present' as a handsome:huh: Metrosexual... wonder what she/he envisions while wanking?:eat2: Oz, maybe!



At one point here face turned all red and it sure did appear that she was fighting back the tears. Her voice even wavered. Then she quickly went back to her "I'm healthy" self talk (ie denial).

Why was it worth noting that Tiger is a "hermaphrodite"? First of all, he had absolutely no choice as to how he was born. Second, he had absolutely no say in the decisions the doctors made for his parents. Back then parents didn't question doctors and the parents did whatever doctors told them to do. Third, medically speaking, today chromosonal testing determines the true sex of an intrasexed baby or child or adult, not what is present or not present physically. Even then, there is no *force* to raise a child as either male or female as in the past. Now-a-days parents are often advised to wait and let the child decide. Fourth, neither gender or sexual orientation negate or adversly affect the intelligence level or knowledge gained in their professional field. 

Did you know that a true hermaphrodite can have both a vagina and a penis? So what if Tiger takes testosterone. What difference does it make? I didn't think liberals or unitarians like you passed judgement or wanted to play God and assign sexual orientation or condemn like those narrow minded conservatives do. (This from a very open minded conservative who believes there is more than the simplified XX and XY; and that many additional factors can come into play and it is NOT up to mere humans to pass judgement.)

I think you may have missed a huge part of Tiger's story. I'd even venture to say that he does well more than "present". He probably has more backbone and more 'gonads' than many of the spineless cowards that hide behind the cloak or shroud of FA around these parts!


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## butch (Sep 25, 2011)

Wow, I really pushed a nerve, didn't I, Ned? Other than your point that I shouldn't have made the claim that you were displacing your own anxiety over your FA-ness by denigrating Tiger Devore's body and sexuality, the rest of your claims don't address the very real phobia of intersexed people in your intial post, as SparklingBBW and Angel so clearly and educationally pointed out to you.

I apologize for that, but I'm still puzzled as to the reason you pointed out that someone has a vagina, but must be 'tricking' us by taking testosterone to present as a 'man,' and then the odd query about who Tiger uses as pleasuring fantasy fodder. Sounds like someone who is not hunky dory with intersexed/transgender people. 

For what its worth, my identity is a very open secret to anyone on Dims who wants to find out what it is, so I'm not hiding anything. I've had my picture posted here (and at Adipositivity, so obviously I'm not some scaredy cat hiding behind the name 'Butch'), and I've even been to bashes in NJ and MA.

If you're really interested in supporting your intersexed/transgendered friends, you're very lucky to live in MA, because there is a civil rights bill pending in the state legislature. You could write a letter to your represenatitves, come to a lobby day at the state house, or plenty of other activities. Check out http://www.masstpc.org/ for all the ways you can support the gender non-conforming in your state, Ned.


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## Jes (Sep 25, 2011)

Chimpi said:


> If she's doing it for money, then I'm pretty much okay with that. [snip] If she's doing it to increase her customer base (or amount of members), then I'm not personally on board with that. [snip] I Hope that helps at all...



Well.... if you look above, I think you'll see why I don't really follow (but I thank you for your answer).


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## blubrluvr (Sep 25, 2011)

What bugs me the most is the fact that Pauline contacted Oz looking for help and was ignored. This guy is NOT interested in helping people, he's an attention whore of the worst kind.


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## Jes (Sep 25, 2011)

To be fair, there are lots of reasons his producers may have been unable or unwilling to have Pauline on the show, but certainly it's also possible that talking with someone who acknowledges the challenges of weight and is desperate to lose it is less dramatic than someone who thinks 1800 (is that the goal now? I'd thought it was 1600) lbs. is as good as Christmas and a birthday all rolled into one.


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 25, 2011)

blubrluvr said:


> What bugs me the most is the fact that Pauline contacted Oz looking for help and was ignored. This guy is NOT interested in helping people, he's an attention whore of the worst kind.



Do you know how many people contact those shows? They probably get hundreds of emails a day. They can't help everyone. Dr Oz has had several people on his show to help them lose weight.. some of them near Pauline's size.


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## ThatFatGirl (Sep 25, 2011)

I've seen bits and pieces of ads and believe Dr. Oz has partnered with Weight Watchers and on tomorrow's show will unveil a weight loss competition with a million dollar prize. :doh:


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 25, 2011)

SparklingBBW said:


> Evidently Butch I need to pass some rep around, but in the meantime, Ned, is it the fact that Tigor Devore has a vagina what is so upsetting to you? Becaue people with vagina's can't be fetish experts and need to remember their purpose is to just sit there, getting fatter and fatter and eating so YOU can wank off to them? And I also don't remember him saying anything judgemental about the fat sexuality subculture. And furthermore, he is on shows like Strange Sex because he is a sexuality expert and practicing sex therapist and I've never seen him in any TV interview being anything but compassionate and understanding toward people of all sexualities and fetishes.
> 
> Just STFU for once would you?


 I always thought Tiger was really really cool:bow: until this show. Whoring:bounce: like this for Doctor Oz wipes all regard away. This is not Tiger's area-of-expertise. It was that creepy fake tan that really is the kiss-off.:kiss2:


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 25, 2011)

butch said:


> Wow, I really pushed a nerve, didn't I, Ned? Other than your point that I shouldn't have made the claim that you were displacing your own anxiety over your FA-ness by denigrating Tiger Devore's body and sexuality, the rest of your claims don't address the very real phobia of intersexed people in your intial post, as SparklingBBW and Angel so clearly and educationally pointed out to you.
> 
> I apologize for that, but I'm still puzzled as to the reason you pointed out that someone has a vagina, but must be 'tricking' us by taking testosterone to present as a 'man,' and then the odd query about who Tiger uses as pleasuring fantasy fodder. Sounds like someone who is not hunky dory with intersexed/transgender people.
> 
> ...


 Okay you're giving me that part of your initial smackdown was inappropriate... and then you're "quoting' me as saying Tiger's "tricking" us, which is a second-helping of inappropriate? I'm saying that Tiger should KNOW BETTER given past experience. 'Hermaphrodite' is not pejorative and 'Vagina' is not pejorative. 'Dopey-Looking Salon-Tan' IS pejorative!! I support you in your issues precisely up to the point when you start seeing me as the enemy. Then I Detach With Love.:kiss2:


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 25, 2011)

ThatFatGirl said:


> I've seen bits and pieces of ads and believe Dr. Oz has partnered with Weight Watchers and on tomorrow's show will unveil a weight loss competition with a million dollar prize. :doh:


 http://www.ceres.net/Investors/Investors-Equity.html Weight Watchers is currently owned by Artal Luxembourg and check out the other gold-plated:smitten: investment opportunities available thru neopaganly:eat2:-monickered 'Ceres'. This is where Tiger's appearance-fee is coming from.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 25, 2011)

Angel said:


> At one point here face turned all red and it sure did appear that she was fighting back the tears. Her voice even wavered. Then she quickly went back to her "I'm healthy" self talk (ie denial).
> 
> Why was it worth noting that Tiger is a "hermaphrodite"? First of all, he had absolutely no choice as to how he was born. Second, he had absolutely no say in the decisions the doctors made for his parents. Back then parents didn't question doctors and the parents did whatever doctors told them to do. Third, medically speaking, today chromosonal testing determines the true sex of an intrasexed baby or child or adult, not what is present or not present physically. Even then, there is no *force* to raise a child as either male or female as in the past. Now-a-days parents are often advised to wait and let the child decide. Fourth, neither gender or sexual orientation negate or adversly affect the intelligence level or knowledge gained in their professional field.
> 
> ...


 Liberals or Unitarians like me. Straight out of the Internet-Troll Styleguide. I do know all the sh*t you're asking me if I know because I'm better-educated, better-informed and way better at grammar than you, 'Angel'.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 25, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> Okay you're giving me that part of your initial smackdown was inappropriate... and then you're "quoting' me as saying Tiger's "tricking" us, which is a second-helping of inappropriate? I'm saying that Tiger should KNOW BETTER given past experience. 'Hermaphrodite' is not pejorative and 'Vagina' is not pejorative. 'Dopey-Looking Salon-Tan' IS pejorative!! I support you in your issues precisely up to the point when you start seeing me as the enemy. Then I Detach With Love.:kiss2:


 I'm trying to Google:huh: to remember:doh: exactly what went on with Tiger's genitalia... what his whole chromosome:blush: deal is... if there were never any female organs down there I may've been inaccurate, but not harsh, with the hermaphrodite remark... I'd just never seen him/her with the two-tone gelled-up hair:batting: and the jerseylicious tan:blush: before... not denotive of the gravitas involved in the possession of a PhD:bow::happy: in Behavioral Psychology...


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## CastingPearls (Sep 25, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> I'm trying to Google:huh: to remember:doh: exactly what went on with Tiger's genitalia... what his whole chromosome:blush: deal is... if there were never any female organs down there I may've been inaccurate, but not harsh, with the hermaphrodite remark... I'd just never seen him/her with the two-tone gelled-up hair:batting: and the jerseylicious tan:blush: before... not denotive of the gravitas involved in the possession of a PhD:bow::happy: in Behavioral Psychology...


Ned, you're drawing attention away from the OP and dwelling (obsessing?) on the sexual genitalia of one of the experts (who does have some expertise, Ned--you're not the only one with expertise--you have to share!!!) It's rather disingenuous for someone of your education, information and grammatical superiority, doncha think?


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 25, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> Ned, you're drawing attention away from the OP and dwelling (obsessing?) on the sexual genitalia of one of the experts (who does have some expertise, Ned--you're not the only one with expertise--you have to share!!!) It's rather disingenuous for someone of your education, information and grammatical superiority, doncha think?


 What's my motivation for being genuous, cutie-pie?:batting:


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## Heyyou (Sep 25, 2011)

I watched it halfway through. It seemed more stand-off-ish than anything.


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 25, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> What's my motivation for being genuous, cutie-pie?:batting:


 
I just died a little bit more inside, and it wasn't even *me* you were addressing, Ned.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 25, 2011)

Ned.....sometimes it's best to simply not talk about vagina....no matter if it's a vagina on a guy or not. Vagina talk can get you into trouble which is why I tend to stick to talking about penis most of the time. Duh Ned 





CurvyEm said:


> She makes me so angry. That smile and that laugh. She really thinks she knows everything, doesn't she?
> 
> I don't care if she eats herself to death - I honestly culdn't care, if that is what she enjoys/turns her on. I wish she would just come out and say that she doesn't care.



I took her smile to be defensive. I don't care if she eats herself to death either. Do I want her to die? No- not at all. 
I just don't believe in forcing my will upon someone who obviously is doing what she enjoys doing.....how could I or anyone else compete?

The healthy talk defense did get old quickly- I started wishing she would just tell Oz and his audience to go fuck themselves- they are going to judge her no matter what she chooses to do. The one thing I actually liked about her was that she honestly did seem happy/proud of her lifestyle choice. Just acknowledge the truth of the matter and the choices you make....

The part where she says she would consider stopping if her children asked her to.....I have my doubts about that for some reason.



TraciJo67 said:


> I was struck by the enormous level of denial on her part. She mentioned at least a dozen times that she's healthy. She says that her doctor and her children are fine with her lifestyle. She repeats again and again that she's healthy. Dr. Oz breaks it down for her with real, impartial numbers. She is clearly very, very UNhealthy. This isn't bias or speculation, it is an undeniable fact.
> 
> And she sits there and smiles with a vapid, vacant look on her face and continues to repeat that she's healthy. Healthy. She's healthy! I don't think her physical health is the imminent danger. Her emotional health is the bigger stumbling block.



My numbers were bad back in January- 127 fasting blood sugar reading and my doctor put me on Metformin. 
My cholesterol number was 386- I have managed to cut it back to 170 back at my last checkup in July. 
Those numbers scared me as a mother....and I have 11 years on Susanne.

I can't say that those numbers have "scared me skinny" but then again, I don't sit around now saying that "I am healthy" because I know I can do better. 

So yeah, I have to agree with the denial theory. 



CarlaSixx said:


> I was not upset with Dr Oz. He started nicely, but someone who genuinely cares about the health and longevity of a person is going to get heated and react. That's what he did. He tried to be nice until there was no other way to act. And she still held her vacant "jackass" smile and told him she was healthy. If she's going to die, very few people will feel sorry for her, I think. The kids will get all the sorry. They already do, as they should. They have to live with her day in and day out. They have it the worst. I just hope her kids' emotional well-being will be taken care of, because it doesn't seem like she cares about anyone but herself. And even that seems like a stretch.



I didn't see Dr Oz as being "unkind" either. However, I did find myself fighting off a view him as "spokesperson for all the diet nazis". That could simply be a perception in my head (once again, I will point out my eating disorder and the realization that my judgments might be.....different).
That perception could be, though, not from my distrust of "people speaking diet" but rather the way the show kept scanning for the judgmental looks of the audience. In other words, he was playing up to the status quo to help boost ratings. It's SHOWTIME first, time to "help" Susannah second, IMO.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 25, 2011)

TraciJo67 said:


> I just died a little bit more inside, and it wasn't even *me* you were addressing, Ned.


Holy Cats I'm like Moses:bow::blush: to you people... sorry to disappoint...:huh: "I might not get there with you...":really sad:


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## CarlaSixx (Sep 25, 2011)

So, Ned, are you (in basic terms) saying that Tiger has no credibility in his field simply because he likes to tan and get his hair done? Really?

That's just stupid, now. He looks polished and professional. Does he have to call himself an FA as well to gain credibility in your eyes? I'm sorry, but that would mean a doctor treating cancer would have to have cancer as well... a psychiatrist would have to have bipolar disorder in order to treat bipolar disorder... etc...

Do you see where I'm going with that?
It basically makes no sense!

So you do come off as someone who dislikes intersex people. Because you're judging his credentials based on his looks. That's stupid to do.


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## ThatFatGirl (Sep 25, 2011)

CarlaSixx said:


> So you do come off as someone who dislikes intersex people. Because you're judging his credentials based on his looks. That's stupid to do.



Quoted for truth.. sometimes, Ned, it's best to just keep your hands away from the keyboard and keep your thoughts to yourself.


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## Jes (Sep 25, 2011)

CarlaSixx said:


> So, Ned, are you (in basic terms) saying that Tiger has no credibility in his field simply because he likes to tan and get his hair done? Really?
> .



I thought Ned said he was a good-looking metrosexual? He should be on very friendly terms with tans and good grooming, then.

Here's the thing: if it's ok to make fun of what Dr. Tiger looks like, then it's open season on what Susanne looks like, too. 

If we want people to tolerate us, we need to learn to tolerate other people. It really is that simple.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 25, 2011)

CarlaSixx said:


> So, Ned, are you (in basic terms) saying that Tiger has no credibility in his field simply because he likes to tan and get his hair done? Really?
> 
> That's just stupid, now. He looks polished and professional. Does he have to call himself an FA as well to gain credibility in your eyes? I'm sorry, but that would mean a doctor treating cancer would have to have cancer as well... a psychiatrist would have to have bipolar disorder in order to treat bipolar disorder... etc...
> 
> ...


I'm saying in previous appearances he's looked like a serious grey-haired professional.:bow: Now he looks like Ryan Seachrist's uncle. And it seems he's on the take from this Big Pharma holding-company that owns Weight Watchers.:huh: He's on TELEVISION, people.:doh:


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 25, 2011)

CarlaSixx said:


> So, Ned, are you (in basic terms) saying that Tiger has no credibility in his field simply because he likes to tan and get his hair done? Really?
> 
> That's just stupid, now. He looks polished and professional. Does he have to call himself an FA as well to gain credibility in your eyes? I'm sorry, but that would mean a doctor treating cancer would have to have cancer as well... a psychiatrist would have to have bipolar disorder in order to treat bipolar disorder... etc...
> 
> ...


 Field-wise he has a PhD in Clinical Psychology. He did a paper!


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## Diana_Prince245 (Sep 25, 2011)

Putting a bunch of emoticons in your posts doesn't distract from your insistence on insulting Dr. Tiger's looks or your apparent distaste for the fact he's intersexed.

It also doesn't make you appear intelligent when you just keep digging yourself a bigger hole after you get called out for distasteful remarks.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 25, 2011)

Jes said:


> I thought Ned said he was a good-looking metrosexual? He should be on very friendly terms with tans and good grooming, then.
> 
> Here's the thing: if it's ok to make fun of what Dr. Tiger looks like, then it's open season on what Susanne looks like, too.
> 
> If we want people to tolerate us, we need to learn to tolerate other people. It really is that simple.


 I had the 2tone Madonna hair:batting: like everybody else in the 80s but I never had a tan:blush: in my life.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 25, 2011)

Diana_Prince245 said:


> Putting a bunch of emoticons in your posts doesn't distract from your insistence on insulting Dr. Tiger's looks or your apparent distaste for the fact he's intersexed.
> 
> It also doesn't make you appear intelligent when you just keep digging yourself a bigger hole after you get called out for distasteful remarks.


 Easy for You to say o Flyer in the Invisible Airplane:kiss2:


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## FA Punk (Sep 25, 2011)

Not trying to sound rude towards Ned...but does anybody understand what he's saying? No knock to ya man cause you seem like a nice enough guy but less smiles would be cool.


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## Emma (Sep 26, 2011)

FA Punk said:


> Not trying to sound rude towards Ned...but does anybody understand what he's saying? No knock to ya man cause you seem like a nice enough guy but less smiles would be cool.



I actually just skip his posts because I usually have no idea what he is going on about.


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## CleverBomb (Sep 26, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> Easy for You to say o Flyer in the Invisible Airplane:kiss2:





FA Punk said:


> Not trying to sound rude towards Ned...but does anybody understand what he's saying? No knock to ya man cause you seem like a nice enough guy but less smiles would be cool.





CurvyEm said:


> I actually just skip his posts because I usually have no idea what he is going on about.



"Diana Prince" was Wonder Woman's alter ego. Haven't read back to see what the rest was about. 

-Rusty


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## Angel (Sep 26, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> I'm better-educated, better-informed and way better at grammar than you, 'Angel'.



Let  me :eat2: improve :eat1: my :happy: grammer  for :smitten: you,  Ned. 


We should compare IQs sometime. :kiss2:


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## Jes (Sep 26, 2011)

Angel said:


> Let  me :eat2: improve :eat1: my :happy: grammer  for :smitten: you,  Ned.
> 
> 
> We should compare IQs sometime. :kiss2:



I wonder if some people feel that losing weight at any time for any reason is stupid. Therefore, they think that anyone who has ever lost weight is stupid. 

The fact that you've lost some and battled back from compromised mobility AND said so probably put a target over your face for some.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 26, 2011)

Angel said:


> Let me improve my grammer for you, Ned.
> 
> We should compare IQs sometime. :kiss2:


 This flamewar seems to be petering out... the STRANGE SEX series noted that there's a popular Transgender TV talkshow in India... in fact M-to-Fs:batting: have been a caste-unto-themselves for millennia over there and figure into Hindu cosmology. If what I spotted on Eman's Fox-Network(!) Oz-appearance ...was a dangling hint of Tiger getting a slot on OWN for an Intersex talkshow of his/her own... financially backed by Ceres Holding Hedgefund Central... then I want at least props for trendspotting precognition from my supposedly uncomprehending:doh: denigrators.:kiss2:


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 26, 2011)

Jes said:


> I wonder if some people feel that losing weight at any time for any reason is stupid. Therefore, they think that anyone who has ever lost weight is stupid.
> 
> The fact that you've lost some and battled back from compromised mobility AND said so probably put a target over your face for some.


 Nice troll-try, Pilot Fish. Wonder no more. I never said doing what you gotta do to survive is stupid.:doh: Weight loss may not be a guarantee for medium-term continued survival and it's well-established that weight-loss tends to be temporary. If it's extending your ability for us to have these little discussions, swell~ because I enjoy them.:eat2:


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 26, 2011)

FA Punk said:


> Not trying to sound rude towards Ned...but does anybody understand what he's saying? No knock to ya man cause you seem like a nice enough guy but less smiles would be cool.


 It's not my problem if I'm goin' too fast for ya. Maybe I'm a mad genius or maybe you're a sane moron, errrrm that is, dull-normal.:huh::huh::huh:


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 26, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> Field-wise he has a PhD in Clinical Psychology. He did a paper!


 Ooooh correction it's BEHAVIORAL Psychology:bounce: which is even more not-based-on-anything-medical than Clinical Psychology. The dude/chick is nowhere near legally-authorized to prescribe meds, folks. Behavioral Psychology is the study of Crowd Control LOL


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## Jes (Sep 26, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> The dude/chick is



In all seriousness, what is your problem with intersexed people? It seems like an awfully strange hill for you to die on


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 26, 2011)

Jes said:


> In all seriousness, what is your problem with intersexed people? It seems like an awfully strange hill for you to die on


 If Tiger turns out NOT to be about to turn into a sellout shill:batting: I'll certainly offer up humble apologies. I'm smelling the proverbial Smart Ones in the microwave now:eat2: and it'll be beeping any time now. Jes, I went to Pratt. I have transgendered friends going all the way back to that era. I'd suggest you don't mistake snark:happy: for fascism. Because there's plenty o' real fascists out there.


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## Jes (Sep 26, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> If Tiger turns out NOT to be about to turn into a sellout shill:batting: I'll certainly offer up humble apologies. I'm smelling the proverbial Smart Ones in the microwave now:eat2: and it'll be beeping any time now. Jes, I went to Pratt. I have transgendered friends going all the way back to that era. I'd suggest you don't mistake snark:happy: for fascism. Because there's plenty o' real fascists out there.



Get their numbers and give them a ring; read your posts aloud to them and see how they feel about your friendship now.

Dr. Devore doesn't need to please you for it to be genuinely OK that he's intersexed. You're allowed to dislike him, but why on earth are you picking such a ridiculous reason? 

It's not like he's killed anyone, if you know what I mean.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 26, 2011)

Jes said:


> Get their numbers and give them a ring; read your posts aloud to them and see how they feel about your friendship now.
> 
> Dr. Devore doesn't need to please you for it to be genuinely OK that he's intersexed. You're allowed to dislike him, but why on earth are you picking such a ridiculous reason?
> 
> It's not like he's killed anyone, if you know what I mean.


 Call him/her up and ask him/her if she/he's every killed anyone. :eat2:


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 26, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> Call him/her up and ask him/her if she/he's every killed anyone. :eat2:


 In one sense anyone appearing:batting: on the Fox Network:blush: in a paid capacity as a spokesperson representing Conventional Wisdom is complicit in the deaths of half-a-million Iraqis... hope:bounce: that clarifies my position.:kiss2:


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## NyGiant (Sep 26, 2011)

Does no one here think that Dr oz is a joke I mean come on he makes up more crap that fox news for god sakes like most recent apple juice contains poison. He uses scare tactics to get ratings. And most of his knowledge he gets from the writers he has on the show.he and that shitty face lift need to go somewhere. Now I didn't watch the clips but I guarantee it was edited and prob caught her off guard to make her look stupid I'm surprised to see everyone hating on her because she's doin what most wish but can't because they are to afraid.


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## Jes (Sep 26, 2011)

NyGiant said:


> stupid I'm surprised to see everyone hating on her because she's doin what most wish but can't because they are to afraid.



Yes, that's exactly what's going on.


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## moore2me (Sep 26, 2011)

*My two cents worth -*

*I still think that the Band of Brothers (and sisters) including Susanne, AJ, et al, did a great job on the Dr Oz show.* Sure they weren't slick Hollywood spokespeople, nor were they shot from good camera angles, nor were they shot using favorable lighting. You can make a person look good with the right camera filter (it's in Barbara Walter's contract) and with the right lighting (especially critical in HiDef). And your can make someone look like a standin from Buffy the Vampire Slayer by using the wrong color filters and letting them wear the wrong wardrobe (not schooling the panel in appropriate attire). A lot of this TV lookin good is due to smoke and mirrors. 

*What is one of the things most adults fear to do? Speak in public*. How would most of you feel about speaking in front of an audience? Most people are terrified. I have done lots of public speaking to large groups and in front of cameras and it scares me every time all over again. It takes a lot of nerve and intestinal fortitude to get in front of people - especially what you know will likely be a hostile audience. 
*
And another bow to Susanne, I quit flying and traveling because of the exertion of dragging myself from my home to where I was going to speak or attend a meeting.* It is very difficult to get thru airports, get on transportation, cope with breakdowns of equipment, suffer from dismal rooms with no air conditioning or crappy beds and chairs. The whole shooting match is a big plate of horrible. If you forget your medicine, or get sick, or get lost, or the taxis cannot hold you it just adds to your burden.
*
Which brings me to my next point - if we want a panel of fat folks that look and talk like others on TV, we need to get some professional representatives.* At least, we should use men and women who are trained in dealing with the public and looking good, talking good, and coming out smelling like a rose. Hey - people pay big money to train spokes models or talking heads to do this stuff. Then your cause will for sure get a good review. Also, it sounds like they would have good a better review here too.

And as to the debate about Dr Devore (Tiger), I would pick him time after time over Dr Oz. Tiger is good looking and spoke kindly of people. He did not scare me. *My opinion of Tiger was, he is okay. Dr Oz is not okay.
*
*So overall, I think the total package was great*. Those of you that say "What will people think?" It's not our business what people think (RuPaul) but continued innoculation to new ideas and new conditions will most likely sooner or later make people more accepting of those conditions. *Keep on trucking.*


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 26, 2011)

NyGiant said:


> Does no one here think that Dr oz is a joke I mean come on he makes up more crap that fox news for god sakes like most recent apple juice contains poison. He uses scare tactics to get ratings. And most of his knowledge he gets from the writers he has on the show.he and that shitty face lift need to go somewhere. Now I didn't watch the clips but I guarantee it was edited and prob caught her off guard to make her look stupid I'm surprised to see everyone hating on her because she's doin what most wish but can't because they are to afraid.


 
Why, yes ... I do wish that I could visit the ER several times because I can't breathe. I wish that I could move only with great difficulty. I certainly wish that I was "frankly diabetic" with a triglyceride level that's turning my blood into sludge. I wish that I felt the need to put on a vapidly brave face so that those who are financially supporting me will continue to do so (I simply MUST act at all times as if I'm having the time of my life and there's no downside whatsoever to being the poster girl for my paying customers). 

You know, at some point, "supporting" starts to look more like "objectifying" and "devaluing".


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## Mindee (Sep 26, 2011)

blubrluvr said:


> What bugs me the most is the fact that Pauline contacted Oz looking for help and was ignored. This guy is NOT interested in helping people, he's an attention whore of the worst kind.


NONE of these shows are there to "help" people. The hosts all reign over multi-million dollar businesses known as "their show". It is a money-making business. If they were into the "helping" business they would hang out their shingle and see patients. They are interested in what is going to drive ratings and hence revenue. Their producers decided that Susanne was worth using, and that Pauline was not. If someone really, truly wants help, there are legitimate places and people that they can turn to. Attempting to find help on a TV talk show is like trying to find a subway in the clouds.

XO
Mindee


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## Webmaster (Sep 26, 2011)

moore2me said:


> ....At least, we should use men and women who are trained in dealing with the public and looking good, talking good, and coming out smelling like a rose....



Exactly. You can do a lot of good when on TV, but you're also never more than a few words away from utter disaster. You need to be able to read a show and predict what angle they'll want to present, and prepare not to fall into the likely traps. You need to be well prepared, have your points ready, and you need to take the initiative whenever possible. Shows generally don't care who takes the floor, as long as someone speaks up and entertains. After all, it's all about ratings.

This is not to say that those inexperienced with TV should never go on. But if you want to communicate a message and steer clear of potential disaster, it's always better to deploy people who come across well, are equipped to take control, and know how to steer clear of the traps and pitfalls.


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## fatgirlflyin (Sep 26, 2011)

Webmaster said:


> Exactly. You can do a lot of good when on TV, but you're also never more than a few words away from utter disaster. You need to be able to read a show and predict what angle they'll want to present, and prepare not to fall into the likely traps. You need to be well prepared, have your points ready, and you need to take the initiative whenever possible. Shows generally don't care who takes the floor, as long as someone speaks up and entertains. After all, it's all about ratings.
> 
> This is not to say that those inexperienced with TV should never go on. But if you want to communicate a message and steer clear of potential disaster, it's always better to deploy people who come across well, are equipped to take control, and know how to steer clear of the traps and pitfalls.



A person can do much more good on tv talking about how fat people are deserving of dignified treatment by medical professionals, equal treatment by employers and respectful treatment by the public at large. A woman going on tv talking about how she aspires to be the worlds fattest woman smiling and ignoring the fact that her blood sugar is crazy high, and men talking about how they find her attractive does nothing to further anything for fat people. Unless you count being the butt of jokes...


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## Jes (Sep 26, 2011)

Mindee said:


> NONE of these shows are there to "help" people. The hosts all reign over multi-million dollar businesses known as "their show". It is a money-making business. If they were into the "helping" business they would hang out their shingle and see patients. They are interested in what is going to drive ratings and hence revenue. Their producers decided that Susanne was worth using, and that Pauline was not. If someone really, truly wants help, there are legitimate places and people that they can turn to. Attempting to find help on a TV talk show is like trying to find a subway in the clouds.
> 
> XO
> Mindee



I do understand where you're coming from and what you're saying, but I do have to ask: where else could Pauline have gone? I'm not saying there were no other places, but I am curious as to your ideas.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 26, 2011)

Jes said:


> Get their numbers and give them a ring; read your posts aloud to them and see how they feel about your friendship now.
> 
> Dr. Devore doesn't need to please you for it to be genuinely OK that he's intersexed. You're allowed to dislike him, but why on earth are you picking such a ridiculous reason?
> 
> It's not like he's killed anyone, if you know what I mean.


 I DO like him.:smitten: I was SHOCKED that he sat there looking like Ryan Seachrist's uncle.:doh: I feel TERRIBLE that the doctor cut his penis off as an newborn while cutting the cord or whatever. I APPLAUD his struggle.:bow: But if he gets one of these freakazoid 'medical' pop-psych shows on OWN I WON'T like him anymore.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 26, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> I DO like him.:smitten: I was SHOCKED that he sat there looking like Ryan Seachrist's uncle.:doh: I feel TERRIBLE that the doctor cut his penis off as an newborn while cutting the cord or whatever. I APPLAUD his struggle.:bow: But if he gets one of these freakazoid 'medical' pop-psych shows on OWN I WON'T like him anymore.


 Unless he goes back to the grey hair.


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## NyGiant (Sep 26, 2011)

Every persons body is different who's to say she will have diabetes I had a grandmother who smoked for 80 years and died of nothing to do with cigs but a person who hasn't smoked at all gets lung cancer. To be very honest she prob went on tv for 1 reason the MONEY. Maybe she knew what was planned for her on the show maybe she didn't. but doesn't give you the right Stop being a troll because its her life and not yours weather she feels healthy or not either way she has feelings and in one way or another I feel your r jealous cause either way your talkin about her, someone you don't even know.


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## CarlaSixx (Sep 26, 2011)

If Dr. Devore is actually looking to have his own show, maybe it IS to make things better. What's better than making sex and fetishes un-tabooed?! That's his focus when appearing on Strange Sex and on this Dr Oz show. He's pointing out that FETISHES ARE NORMAL.

And you're telling me someone who's trying to help people accept themselves and their likes is someone who's not worthy of praise?

I do think you have a deeper rooted dislike towards Dr Devore than just "He's on TV too much." 

Because if people were constantly shutting down on me because of what I found attractive, and in comes a Dr who says it's perfectly normal, healthy, and is accepting of these things I find attractive, I dunno about you.... but I'm going to quite like that doctor.


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## fatgirlflyin (Sep 26, 2011)

NyGiant said:


> Every persons body is different who's to say she will have diabetes I had a grandmother who smoked for 80 years and died of nothing to do with cigs but a person who hasn't smoked at all gets lung cancer. To be very honest she prob went on tv for 1 reason the MONEY. Maybe she knew what was planned for her on the show maybe she didn't. but doesn't give you the right Stop being a troll because its her life and not yours weather she feels healthy or not either way she has feelings and in one way or another I feel your r jealous cause either way your talkin about her, someone you don't even know.




And you didn't watch the show, obviously have no idea what those numbers mean as far as health goes, and do you even live in a fat body? Seriously dude, your hardon isn't at risk here... 

Nobody is saying she's too fat or she needs to lose weight. I dont care how fat she is, what I do care about is that another fat woman went on tv and furthered the stereotype that we all have our heads stuck firmly in the sand when it comes to health, that affects (effects?) MY life.


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## Jes (Sep 26, 2011)

NyGiant said:


> Every persons body is different who's to say she will have diabetes I had a grandmother who smoked for 80 years and died of nothing to do with cigs but a person who hasn't smoked at all gets lung cancer. To be very honest she prob went on tv for 1 reason the MONEY. Maybe she knew what was planned for her on the show maybe she didn't. but doesn't give you the right Stop being a troll because its her life and not yours weather she feels healthy or not either way she has feelings and in one way or another I feel your r jealous cause either way your talkin about her, someone you don't even know.



Let me ask you this: following your line of thinking, and I'm only going with stuff you yourself have posted, do you want to weight 1600 lbs? Or even 700 lbs? In your photo, you look to be average weight. If most people want to be fat but are afraid, and if fat doesn't mean you'll have any illnesses or complications, then do you plan on gaining 1400 lbs. anytime soon? This isn't a hypothetical, btw.


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## NyGiant (Sep 26, 2011)

At 315 I would say yes and in fact am very healthy. In fact came to the same negative bigotry that most doctors have towards obese people. Went to doctor for a check up took blood and heart monitor and checked my blood pressure. Said I unhealthy I was do to being overweight came back with results and was shocked to read out how wrong he was all my readings were normal for someone my age lol should have seen the look on his face priceless but still spit that garbage of how I need to lose the weight. So like I said not everyone is the same.


P.S I went from 235 to 315 in a lil more then a year so don't tell me it can't be done. And don't tell me I don't know what its like


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## Mindee (Sep 26, 2011)

Jes said:


> I do understand where you're coming from and what you're saying, but I do have to ask: where else could Pauline have gone? I'm not saying there were no other places, but I am curious as to your ideas.


Well for example, seek out a good counselor or therapist. Organizations such as the Samaritan Center offer good counselors and they will see you whether or not you can afford to pay. There are plenty of good doctors out there. It may take a little time & research to seek out the people you need, but attempting to go on TV isn't a good answer. The amount of "help" one will get from the TV show that is about 36 minutes worth of content is minimal and their follow-up is notoriously abysmal. Once they are done with you, they are on to the next show and the next story. Someone who truly wants help needs long term, local help who will be with them for the long haul. The only place where every problem is solved in 60 minutes minus commercials is in TV Land.


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## Jes (Sep 26, 2011)

Mindee said:


> Once they are done with you, they are on to the next show and the next story. Someone who truly wants help needs long term, local help who will be with them for the long haul. The only place where every problem is solved in 60 minutes minus commercials is in TV Land.



Yes, this is most likely true, you're right.
But I'm not sure how well seeking counselors works if you can't leave your home and I don't know a talk therapist who can help you lose 500 lbs. 
And I'm not dissing your suggestions, don't get me wrong. I, too, have had some kneejerk thoughts about what people can or should do, but then I realize that perhaps, for some, the 'take time and find a therapist' help may not be the right answer to a crisis. 
I'm not saying that appealing to TV is the right answer either, however.


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## NyGiant (Sep 26, 2011)

Jes said:


> Let me ask you this: following your line of thinking, and I'm only going with stuff you yourself have posted, do you want to weight 1600 lbs? Or even 700 lbs? In your photo, you look to be average weight. If most people want to be fat but are afraid, and if fat doesn't mean you'll have any illnesses or complications, then do you plan on gaining 1400 lbs. anytime soon? This isn't a hypothetical, btw.


No I don't wanna be immobile but for the right person I'd get as big as 5 or 600 maybe even 7 if I liked it but I will not know how it would make me feel till I get there.


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## fatgirlflyin (Sep 26, 2011)

NyGiant said:


> No I don't wanna be immobile but for the right person I'd get as big as 5 or 600 maybe even 7 if I liked it but I will not know how it would make me feel till I get there.



Know what happens when you get there and decide you don't like it? You're stuck, there's no pill that magically makes that fat go away, no wand to wave in the air to make it disappear.


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## NyGiant (Sep 26, 2011)

fatgirlflyin said:


> Know what happens when you get there and decide you don't like it? You're stuck, there's no pill that magically makes that fat go away, no wand to wave in the air to make it disappear.


 at my age its called exercise and eating right. If you have enough determination it can be done. But that's what life is all about decisions that one self makes and living with them.


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## fatgirlflyin (Sep 26, 2011)

NyGiant said:


> at my age its called exercise and eating right. If you have enough determination it can be done. But that's what life is all about decisions that one self makes and living with them.




Wow, you really have no clue. I hope you never find yourself in the position to find out just how wrong you are.


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## Jes (Sep 26, 2011)

NyGiant said:


> No I don't wanna be immobile but for the right person I'd get as big as 5 or 600 maybe even 7 if I liked it but I will not know how it would make me feel till I get there.



Wait, why don't you want to be immobile?


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## TexasTrouble (Sep 26, 2011)

NyGiant said:


> at my age its called exercise and eating right. If you have enough determination it can be done. But that's what life is all about decisions that one self makes and living with them.



So you know you don't want to be immobile. But you're not sure if you'd get up as high as 500-700 lbs because you don't know what that would feel like. But you are betting on the fact that you'd feel like exercising and eating right (and it would result in weight loss) if you didn't enjoy being at that weight. Sounds like a heck of a plan.


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 26, 2011)

NyGiant said:


> Every persons body is different who's to say she will have diabetes I had a grandmother who smoked for 80 years and died of nothing to do with cigs but a person who hasn't smoked at all gets lung cancer. To be very honest she prob went on tv for 1 reason the MONEY. Maybe she knew what was planned for her on the show maybe she didn't. but doesn't give you the right Stop being a troll because its her life and not yours weather she feels healthy or not either way she has feelings and in one way or another I feel your r jealous cause either way your talkin about her, someone you don't even know.


 
Clearly, you didn't see the show. She HAS diabetes. Her fasting blood glucose level was 156. Her triglyceride levels were multiple times higher than what would be considered acceptable. She visited the ER with complaints that she couldn't breathe, and given her bloodwork plus symptoms, doctors felt that she had a pulmonary embolism but could not diagnose it because she is too large to fit into diagnostic equipment. This wasn't speculation; it was fact that she didn't deny ... said instead something along the incredibly ill-informed line of "Who's to say that those numbers are bad? Numbers are arbitrary". Yeah. And there's nothing at all sad and tragic about a 32-year-old woman who cannot breathe and is so fearful for her life that she visits the ER. 

Seriously, and I do mean this SERIOUSLY: Those with a vested sexual interest in Susanne and in others who live the "love to gain to immobility" fantasy should NOT and I do mean NOT and let me re-emphasize should NOT be hopping in with their "uninvested" medical advise. Having the attraction, the fetish, whatever it is termed ... is not the problem. Pretending that one can be at all impartial when it comes to matters of health and lifestyle ... huge, huge red flag.


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## NyGiant (Sep 26, 2011)

Jes said:


> Wait, why don't you want to be immobile?



1 that just isn't me, I do not wanna be dependent on someone everytime I have to go to the bathroom or to get a glass of water plus I like to get around outside the house like the beach or what have you but there are some to whom known of that matters. And 2 it isn't MY fantasy not every feedee gainer bbw or bhm have to have the goal of being immobile.


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## Jes (Sep 26, 2011)

NyGiant said:


> 1 that just isn't me, I do not wanna be dependent on someone everytime I have to go to the bathroom or to get a glass of water plus I like to get around outside the house like the beach or what have you but there are some to whom known of that matters. And 2 it isn't MY fantasy not every feedee gainer bbw or bhm have to have the goal of being immobile.



Oh.
Ok. 

I don't know why I assumed you thought most feedees, gainers, bbws or bhms had a goal of being really fat/immobile. 

Maybe it was that time you said: she's doin what most wish but can't because they are to afraid.

What's wrong with being dependent on someone to pee or get a glass of water, though? I mean, really now, what's wrong with it?


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## Webmaster (Sep 26, 2011)

fatgirlflyin said:


> A person can do much more good on tv talking about how fat people are deserving of dignified treatment by medical professionals, equal treatment by employers and respectful treatment by the public at large. A woman going on tv talking about how she aspires to be the worlds fattest woman smiling and ignoring the fact that her blood sugar is crazy high, and men talking about how they find her attractive does nothing to further anything for fat people. Unless you count being the butt of jokes...



We're talking about two different things. My observations were about appearing on TV in general. You need to know what you're doing. 

As for this particular show, I couldn't agree more. Which is why Dimensions does not allow producers to recruit guests on our boards.


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## NyGiant (Sep 26, 2011)

Jes said:


> Oh.
> Ok.
> 
> I don't know why I assumed you thought most feedees, gainers, bbws or bhms had a goal of being really fat/immobile.
> ...


I said most not all and I also said that I am independent I did not say there is something wrong with being dependent on someone else its just not me and my whole point to this is do what makes YOU happy cause we all have 1 life to live and it isn't forever.


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## Jes (Sep 26, 2011)

NyGiant said:


> I said most not all and I also said that I am independent I did not say there is something wrong with being dependent on someone else its just not me and my whole point to this is do what makes YOU happy cause we all have 1 life to live and it isn't forever.



Well I do think you're right, even if it's not for you: most people _do_ want to be unable to clean themselves or leave their homes. I wish more people would admit that, NYGiant! Still, you'll most likely have your chance to find out if you do find that right person and gain up to 700!


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## NyGiant (Sep 26, 2011)

Jes said:


> Well I do think you're right, even if it's not for you: most people _do_ want to be unable to clean themselves or leave their homes. I wish more people would admit that, NYGiant! Still, you'll most likely have your chance to find out if you do find that right person and gain up to 700!


 one can only hope ;P


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## collared Princess (Sep 26, 2011)

FrancescaBombshell said:


> I was annoyed by Dr.Oz and her.. Him because he treated her like dirt and her because she basically proved what people already think about over weight people.. It did nothing at all for size acceptance. I do believe she set it back.



You can blame your web boss for all this..


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## moore2me (Sep 26, 2011)

*You can't mess with the laws of physics for too long. We have not discussed weight gaining from this perspective, but I'll have a run at it.* Structural engineers can use the strength of posts (wood, metal, concrete, etc.) and the weight of a supported floor and the wt of what's standing on the floor to calculate the safe capacity of a walkway or a outside porch. 

If too many people get on the porch, or walkway, or get too frisky (jumping, dancing, fighting) the once safe structure may not support the weight it was designed for. We have seen many examples lately of collapses of outdoor decks during parties, conventions, football games, or building failures. We have seen young people or pedestrians killed and maimed during these collapses. *The moral is structures have limits to their capacity. Our bodies are also such structures with the bones in our legs, our muscles, our ligaments and tendons keeping us upright. *Trying to bring us down would be our weight of fat, muscle, bones and the rest of our personal baggage inside our body and mean old Mr Gravity.

*You put three, four, or five or even ten times the normal weight on leg structures and pretty soon - crunch, crash, boom. Things are going to fail,* break, and the person will fall (most likely doing a Humpty Dumpty and not go back together again). Another analogy would be a heavy truck driven on a set of normal tires. The more weight, the worse the road, the heavier the traffic, the sooner the tires are going to blowout.

*And as we get older, many women (as Sally Field points out) loose bone density. *That will make our legs go crunch, crash, boom even sooner due to loose of structural strength. Other common diseases of aging like problems with joint movements (cartridge get worn away) or joint surfaces develop rough edges (ouch!), or blood flow diminishes in legs (numbness develops) and coordination goes in the crapper and down you go. For some of us (this includes me) your eyes get bad, hard to see fine details, you step on the dog again after dark, and boom, down you go. The diabetes that has been discussed previously can give you neuropathy (numbness) in the feet and legs and boom, down you go again. *Of course, some folks don't even get to keep their feet and legs once the diabetes starts eating your body. *

*If you live long enough to get down and need nursing assistance, most places will not take people with such huge body weights. *You will get stuck in a place far from home and family - alone. Most of us do not have Russell Williams to stand by our side at such a time. * You will be "turfed" to places and or providers that you would not choose voluntarily. * Chances are your MD "Peggy", will have just graduated from medical school via correspondence course from a prison.

Of course this stuff is not sexy. Of course it is not desirable by any means. No woman or man of sound mind would elect to go down this road voluntarily - but sadly many people do. Some of us are on a runaway train and we cannot get off. Some of you may not know the sordid details of the inevitable.* I thought I should speak of these things for the younger folks in our group and warn you of what to avoid.*


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## Jes (Sep 26, 2011)

moore2me said:


> *If you live long enough to get down and need nursing assistance, most places will not take people with such huge body weights. *You will get stuck in a place far from home and family - alone. Most of us do not have Russell Williams to stand by our side at such a time. * You will be "turfed" to places and or providers that you would not choose voluntarily. * Chances are your MD "Peggy", will have just graduated from medical school via correspondence course from a prison.
> 
> Of course this stuff is not sexy. Of course it is not desirable by any means. No woman or man of sound mind would elect to go down this road voluntarily - but sadly many people do. Some of us are on a runaway train and we cannot get off. Some of you may not know the sordid details of the inevitable.* I thought I should speak of these things for the younger folks in our group and warn you of what to avoid.*



Nobody young ever listens to sense; that's the definition of being young. For those who throw caution to the wind, I just think: well, I'm glad it won't be me dragging those extra 1600 lbs. around. We might want to prevent what we see as a bad thing, but I don't know that we can.


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 26, 2011)

Yes, because all fat, young people aspire to be 1600 pounds.

Oh wait.............. I'm young, fat and have the fetish to boot and I still think Susanne is an idiot. 

Luckily I have you Real Adults around to tell me what's up.. people like Ned Sonntag for instance. (I mean do we really need anymore proof than his posts in this thread to show that age doesn't necessarily equal intelligence or maturity.)


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## russianrobot (Sep 26, 2011)

We haven't heard from Joan Crawford yet... 

View attachment johnnyguitar1.jpg


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 26, 2011)

CarlaSixx said:


> If Dr. Devore is actually looking to have his own show, maybe it IS to make things better. What's better than making sex and fetishes un-tabooed?! That's his focus when appearing on Strange Sex and on this Dr Oz show. He's pointing out that FETISHES ARE NORMAL.
> 
> And you're telling me someone who's trying to help people accept themselves and their likes is someone who's not worthy of praise?
> 
> ...


 No you dunno about me, to judge from your jump-the-gun badinage. Guess what? Tiger tuned into DIMz about 8:30 tonite and as part of his gig as Behavioral Psychologist has been perusing this whole thread. ThatFatGirl was RIGHT ON THE MONEY.:bow: Oz just announced his Million Dollar Weight-Loss Bonanaganza!!! Sponsored by Weight Watchers WHICH according to their public documents KEEPS NO DATA... DOES NOT KEEP TRACK of its programs' 'successes or failures' BEYOND TWO YEARS.:doh: ...Owned by a holding-company in the tax-haven of Luxembourg!!  This, Tiger, is the entity you are about to sell out to.:batting: Many happy returns.:blush:


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 26, 2011)

thatgirl08 said:


> Yes, because all fat, young people aspire to be 1600 pounds.
> 
> Oh wait.............. I'm young, fat and have the fetish to boot and I still think Susanne is an idiot.
> 
> Luckily I have you Real Adults around to tell me what's up.. people like Ned Sonntag for instance. (I mean do we really need anymore proof than his posts in this thread to show that age doesn't necessarily equal intelligence or maturity.)


 I'll get to the bottom of this. And it's gonna be the Mother of All Bottoms,:eat2: believe you me.:happy:


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 26, 2011)

moore2me said:


> *You can't mess with the laws of physics for too long. We have not discussed weight gaining from this perspective, but I'll have a run at it.* Structural engineers can use the strength of posts (wood, metal, concrete, etc.) and the weight of a supported floor and the wt of what's standing on the floor to calculate the safe capacity of a walkway or a outside porch.
> 
> If too many people get on the porch, or walkway, or get too frisky (jumping, dancing, fighting) the once safe structure may not support the weight it was designed for. We have seen many examples lately of collapses of outdoor decks during parties, conventions, football games, or building failures. We have seen young people or pedestrians killed and maimed during these collapses. *The moral is structures have limits to their capacity. Our bodies are also such structures with the bones in our legs, our muscles, our ligaments and tendons keeping us upright. *Trying to bring us down would be our weight of fat, muscle, bones and the rest of our personal baggage inside our body and mean old Mr Gravity.
> 
> ...


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ant_and_the_Grasshopper This assumes:doh: that Things Will Go On As They Have and that There's A Future. If there's not, then, Susanne was The Girl With The Most Cake.:eat1:


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## CarlaSixx (Sep 26, 2011)

Okay... how does Dr Devore tie into the idea of Dr Oz starting a weight loss competition? That doesn't make sense to me.

Seriously... Dr Devore was basically on the show to support the fact that fat fetishism is real and alive. Nothing more.

But you seem to want to blame him for all these weight loss and TV things. 

You seriously have something against him you're trying to hide. 
C'mon. Let it out. Tell us how you really feel.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 27, 2011)

CarlaSixx said:


> Okay... how does Dr Devore tie into the idea of Dr Oz starting a weight loss competition? That doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> Seriously... Dr Devore was basically on the show to support the fact that fat fetishism is real and alive. Nothing more.
> 
> ...


 On the show to... what?? What kind of dreamy notion are you suggesting? He was on the show 'cause Oz's producer called Tiger's agent. There was PRODUCT to be sold. What would the motivation be for a behaviorial psychologist with an intersex clientele to come on a talk show to high-five Fat Admiration?:eat1: I blame him for debasing himself in a manner I found completely out of character.


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## Wild Zero (Sep 27, 2011)

Is there anyway the next "I WANT TO BE THE FATTEST WOMAN IN THE WORLD" who pops up can strike a middle ground between Susanne's dead eyed "If I plug my ears and ignore my doctor that means I'm not ill" and Donna Simpson's fatalistic "I'm gonna die of hereditary cancer anyway so why not just die of fatness," please?

It won't make for good television and the person self-aware enough (beyond upping subscriptions) to do so probably wouldn't even consider going on air, but honestly it's simple as making a statement on individual autonomy and saying something like, "I am aware of the health risks my gaining poses and regularly consult with my doctor to catch problems before they arise."


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## LovelyLiz (Sep 27, 2011)

Wild Zero said:


> Is there anyway the next "I WANT TO BE THE FATTEST WOMAN IN THE WORLD" who pops up can strike a middle ground between Susanne's dead eyed "If I plug my ears and ignore my doctor that means I'm not ill" and Donna Simpson's fatalistic "I'm gonna die of hereditary cancer anyway so why not just die of fatness," please?
> 
> It won't make for good television and the person self-aware enough (beyond upping subscriptions) to do so probably wouldn't even consider going on air, but honestly it's simple as making a statement on individual autonomy and saying something like, "I am aware of the health risks my gaining poses and regularly consult with my doctor to catch problems before they arise."



Be the change you wish to see in the world.


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## Angel (Sep 27, 2011)

Wild Zero said:


> Is there anyway the next "I WANT TO BE THE FATTEST WOMAN IN THE WORLD" who pops up can strike a middle ground between Susanne's dead eyed "If I plug my ears and ignore my doctor that means I'm not ill" and Donna Simpson's fatalistic "I'm gonna die of hereditary cancer anyway so why not just die of fatness," please?
> 
> It won't make for good television and the person self-aware enough (beyond upping subscriptions) to do so probably wouldn't even consider going on air, but honestly it's simple as making a statement on individual autonomy and saying something like, "I am aware of the health risks my gaining poses and regularly consult with my doctor to catch problems before they arise."



That would require that the individual be in touch with reality; which wouldn't make for good tabloid television.


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## Angel (Sep 27, 2011)

collared Princess said:


> You can blame your web boss for all this..



Was all the backlash after all of your appearances and feature stories/articles the fault of your (at the time) web boss?

Who got to fly in the airplanes and go on the trips? Who got to stay in the hotels? Who was provided with meals and groceries? Who signed all the legal documents? Who were the checks written out to? Who got their fifteen minutes of fame? Whose image has ended up being plastered in tabloid magazines, on television 'entertainment' shows, and on news broadcasts? Whose children have been taunted and teased and will have to endure even more for being dragged into a circus like atmosphere? Whose home did the film crews come to?

Don't blame someone else for what you wanted to do and intentionally did even after so many here tried to advise you not to. No one forced either you or Susanne to appear on the programs or to give the interviews or to provide the photos or to allow yourselves to be filmed. You both did it of your own free will and without regard to anyone else. You made the decision. You did exactly what *YOU* wanted to do.

Who would make the posts here and on other sites to tell everyone they were going to be filmed for whatever program, show, or tabloid. Who posted to tell when the shows would air? Who was it that was so excited to be going on these shows and trips while also being compensated for doing so?

You did it of your own free will. I highly doubt there was a web boss forcing you or Susanne to do anything.


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## russianrobot (Sep 27, 2011)

*


Angel said:



That would require that the individual be in touch with reality; which wouldn't make for good tabloid television. 



Click to expand...

*
That is the most sane, accurate, brilliant, statement said on these _*boards*_ in a long, long time about any subject. 

James Thurber Award for sincere wit!!


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## Jes (Sep 27, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> No you dunno about me, to judge from your jump-the-gun badinage. Guess what? Tiger tuned into DIMz about 8:30 tonite and as part of his gig as Behavioral Psychologist has been perusing this whole thread.



I get, WE ALL get, that you hate weight loss. But do you hate people who try or succeed in losing weight, too? 

Why can't you just let people be who they are? Why must you always be the contrarian, claiming that you're doing so to help people? 

No one needs that kind of help.


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## CastingPearls (Sep 27, 2011)

Angel said:


> That would require that the individual be in touch with reality; which wouldn't make for good tabloid television.


Too bad being in touch with reality isn't required on here. lol


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## Mindee (Sep 27, 2011)

moore2me said:


> *You can't mess with the laws of physics for too long. We have not discussed weight gaining from this perspective, but I'll have a run at it.* Structural engineers can use the strength of posts (wood, metal, concrete, etc.) and the weight of a supported floor and the wt of what's standing on the floor to calculate the safe capacity of a walkway or a outside porch.
> 
> If too many people get on the porch, or walkway, or get too frisky (jumping, dancing, fighting) the once safe structure may not support the weight it was designed for. We have seen many examples lately of collapses of outdoor decks during parties, conventions, football games, or building failures. We have seen young people or pedestrians killed and maimed during these collapses. *The moral is structures have limits to their capacity. Our bodies are also such structures with the bones in our legs, our muscles, our ligaments and tendons keeping us upright. *Trying to bring us down would be our weight of fat, muscle, bones and the rest of our personal baggage inside our body and mean old Mr Gravity.
> 
> ...


Another thing to point out here is that most hospitals (even the biggest & the best like Hopkins & Mayo) are not set up to handle super-sized people. They don't fit in the MRI machines, most CT Scan tables cannot handle people over 350 pounds, although some tables will handle up to 500 pounds. Even the bariatric hospital beds don't hold over 500 pounds. Most ambulance doors are not wide enough for a truly super-sized person. The costs for any healthcare organization to re-fit for someone who weighs 700 pounds is astronomical. And, since there are so few of these people, the costs are entirely prohibitive. You mention nursing homes. Compared to hosptials their budgets are miniscule, they can't even begin to pay for the kind of equipment super-sized people require. 

Sure it's your choice to grow yourself if you choose to. But if you have problems because of your choice you cannot expect that the world is prepared or equipped to help you in your time of need. 

XO
Mindee


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## Smushygirl (Sep 27, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> I'm better-educated, better-informed and way better at grammar than you, 'Angel'.



Hmmm, I wonder if this description is analogous to being a murdering, sociopathic narcissist.


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## Jes (Sep 27, 2011)

Mindee said:


> Sure it's your choice to grow yourself if you choose to. But if you have problems because of your choice you cannot expect that the world is prepared or equipped to help you in your time of need.



Nor, sadly, can anyone who gets to weights like those even without super-feedee intentional gaining expect the world to be equipped to handle them.

You know, this is something I've wanted to bring up before, and maybe even have, but has anyone ever considered that perhaps a number of these gainers, and feedees, and 'I want to be 1000-1600 lbs.'-ers are not so much eating by choice, or sexual satisfaction or even monetary gain; perhaps they are just people with food addictions and eating disorders out of control who find it easier to couch those issues as good-natured choices?

If, for example, you could get paid to drink yourself drunk every day (TIGER BLOOD! WINNING!), and have adoring fans who'd buy you the alcohol and send it, I have no doubt a number of people would say that they were choosing to do it, and could stop any time, and it was fun for them. In fact, isn't that what most addicts say? It's gotta be easier to say that than to admit misery and impotence in the face of addiction. I think Pauline has spoken about this before.

And let me be clear: I am in no way slighting people with disordered eating or food addiction. I have my own set of eating issues and while they are mild in comparison to some, they give me enough insight into larger problems to respect their difficulty. But let's not conflate illness and choice; the results are usually disastrous.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 27, 2011)

Jes said:


> I get, WE ALL get, that you hate weight loss. But do you hate people who try or succeed in losing weight, too?
> 
> Why can't you just let people be who they are? Why must you always be the contrarian, claiming that you're doing so to help people?
> 
> No one needs that kind of help.


 Weight loss makes me sad in certain very specific instances. I can handle sad! I don't hate anybody except Rupert Murdoch and to a slightly lesser extent Roger Ailes, the dudes who run Fox. If Roger lost some weight I'd be FINE with that.:eat2: I DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO let people be who they are. I must always be the Contrarian because as an old Underground Cartoonist THAT'S BEEN MY JOB for 40 years. I claim to AMUSE people, which sometimes 'gets them thru the nite' and might give them a moment's breathing room.:bounce: People in SA claim:blink: that my toons in the DIMz Genre HAVE helped them. That's what they claim.:batting: Who knows?


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 27, 2011)

Jes said:


> Nor, sadly, can anyone who gets to weights like those even without super-feedee intentional gaining expect the world to be equipped to handle them.
> 
> You know, this is something I've wanted to bring up before, and maybe even have, but has anyone ever considered that perhaps a number of these gainers, and feedees, and 'I want to be 1000-1600 lbs.'-ers are not so much eating by choice, or sexual satisfaction or even monetary gain; perhaps they are just people with food addictions and eating disorders out of control who find it easier to couch those issues as good-natured choices?
> 
> ...


 Whoa!:happy: Jes said something right!! This is accurate. Enabling is a moral grey area.:huh: "Trying to please" can become enabling in the blink of an eye, and the enabler doesn't Get It:doh: often until waaaay later. The Nedster has definitely Been There Done That on a number of occasions. Does this logically conflict with anything I've ever said on DIMz? Errrm shut up people that's a rhetorical question.:wubu:


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 27, 2011)

Smushygirl said:


> Hmmm, I wonder if this description is analogous to being a murdering, sociopathic narcissist.


 You're still mad at me from some other thread on some other forum.:doh:


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## Jes (Sep 27, 2011)

thatgirl08 said:


> .. people like Ned Sonntag for instance. (I mean do we really need anymore proof than his posts in this thread to show that age doesn't necessarily equal intelligence or maturity.)



Yes, Ned and his 20-year-old cartoons from the print age, which I, even at 41 have never seen and which you probably didn't know exist (which is not a slight against you, by any means). Ned's fear is that he's no longer relevant and his extreme fetishes are showing. He's right to have those fears. Thank God we've got a new generation of women coming up.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 27, 2011)

Maybe it's an Open Secret in the OWN community that Tiger's in a Domestic Partnership with a supersize Woman With A Penis.:eat2: That's the only justification there'd be for his moment of punditry.:huh: That would actually be kind o' sweet. If so, WHY NOT JUST TELL US?:kiss2:


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## Jes (Sep 27, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> Call him/her up and ask him/her if she/he's every killed anyone. :eat2:



Nope; I'm done talking to murderers.

Bye. I really cannot take you anymore. You make me question everything I see here and I'm wising up and clicking ignore from now on. You put me off my breakfast, lunch and dinner which, on some level, has just got to devastate you and everything you stand for.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 27, 2011)

Jes said:


> Yes, Ned and his 20-year-old cartoons from the print age, which I, even at 41 have never seen and which you probably didn't know exist (which is not a slight against you, by any means). Ned's fear is that he's no longer relevant and his extreme fetishes are showing. He's right to have those fears. Thank God we've got a new generation of women coming up.


 Oh yes like that engaged chick on STARK RAVING FAT who pledges total obedience to hubby-to-be and isn't a feminist because 'THEY'RE GENDER-BENDERS'. Image-wise,:smitten: ignorance of the Culture That Got You Here is no excuse. My extreme fetishes ROCK.:eat1:


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 27, 2011)

Jes said:


> Nope; I'm done talking to murderers.
> 
> Bye. I really cannot take you anymore. You make me question everything I see here and I'm wising up and clicking ignore from now on. You put me off my breakfast, lunch and dinner which, on some level, has just got to devastate you and everything you stand for.


 Yes! There IS a Goddess!!:bow: Reverse Psychology DID work!!!




Hope you Ignored in time because you knew I'd post a Pic.:smitten:


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 27, 2011)

Jes said:


> Nope; I'm done talking to murderers.
> 
> Bye. I really cannot take you anymore. You make me question everything I see here and I'm wising up and clicking ignore from now on. You put me off my breakfast, lunch and dinner which, on some level, has just got to devastate you and everything you stand for.


 OMG so many more hours in the day now! I can get some work done... awesome.:happy:


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## LillyBBBW (Sep 27, 2011)

Jes said:


> Nor, sadly, can anyone who gets to weights like those even without super-feedee intentional gaining expect the world to be equipped to handle them.
> 
> You know, this is something I've wanted to bring up before, and maybe even have, but has anyone ever considered that perhaps a number of these gainers, and feedees, and 'I want to be 1000-1600 lbs.'-ers are not so much eating by choice, or sexual satisfaction or even monetary gain; perhaps they are just people with food addictions and eating disorders out of control who find it easier to couch those issues as good-natured choices?
> 
> ...



They tried to make me go to rehab.  I think in general some of the behaviors and practices that most of society holds a dim view on could be fueled by some form of mental illness. I love science and medication like everyone else but they are by no means the missing link in the meaning of life. Where drugs, science and shibboleths fail there may be nothing left for a person but to find relief and happiness the best way that they can - preferrable without hurting others. Some can deal with the harm they cause themselves if this harm is preferable to whatever harms they are suffering as a result of their disposition. I tend to be not so judgemental of people and the choices they make. I feel they're free to make that choice without it being about me or counting myself complicit because I'm not finger wagging along with everyone else. I have loose morals I guess. But yeah, I think some people are simply doing what they have to do to get along in life.


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## Smushygirl (Sep 27, 2011)

Ned Sonntag said:


> You're still mad at me from some other thread on some other forum.:doh:



Nope, got that from right here in good ole Dimensions.


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## Mindee (Sep 27, 2011)

Jes said:


> Nor, sadly, can anyone who gets to weights like those even without super-feedee intentional gaining expect the world to be equipped to handle them.
> 
> You know, this is something I've wanted to bring up before, and maybe even have, but has anyone ever considered that perhaps a number of these gainers, and feedees, and 'I want to be 1000-1600 lbs.'-ers are not so much eating by choice, or sexual satisfaction or even monetary gain; perhaps they are just people with food addictions and eating disorders out of control who find it easier to couch those issues as good-natured choices?
> 
> ...


Of course there are medical conditions that cause certain situations and addicts could test the patience of a saint. Addicts have learned to become manipulative and dishonest to get what they crave. Dealing with addiction whether you are a family member or healthcare professional is tough business. Unless the addict actually WANTS to change there's nothing you can do to make them change. 

But, if we return to somebody making a choice then they have to be prepared to live with their choices. If their choice turns out badly, they cannot then blame others or organizations because their choice turns out to come with difficult consequences. If I choose to rob a bank and kill the bank guard in the process, then I have to accept the consequences of my actions. If I choose to pass a car on a curve against a solid double yellow line and get creamed by an oncoming truck, the consequences are mine. And if I choose to grow myself to an enormous size and my knees give out, or my heart collapses, and no healthcare orgainization has the equipment to help me out, then I have to accept those consequences as well. It is currently trendy to find an excuse or place blame on others for our behavior. But we only win when we accept the consequences for our actions whether they are good or bad. 

XO
Mindee


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## moore2me (Sep 27, 2011)

*DIMMERS have said a lot of the past few days about gaining large amounts of weight*. I cant speak for everyone here, but I know how a few of us feel  do I (or we) accept gaining such amounts? *Of course we acceptance the person  why am I a better person just for weighing a little less? I accept women as equals and worthy of life, happiness, family, and peace.* Being of sound mind and knowing the facts, they have the right to free will like the rest of us. I am not better than them  maybe luckier, or perhaps unluckier. *Often, we make our own luck too. I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul. *(Invictus)

I do think that women and men should have the information they need to evaluation their choice (or involuntary route) of travel along our lifes path. Show them the map, tell them about the hazardous road and the best road to travel. (And yes, often younger people prefer to discover the hazards on their own, but tell them anyway.) Sometimes, give them help by a little lift or handup if they need one. But I accept my fellow travelers. *We are all going to end up at the same place  I like to think they would help me and accept me too. Yes, size acceptance is still very much alive around here.*


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