# Michael Jackson RIP



## tonynyc (Jun 25, 2009)

Just listening to the local news right now - according to TMZ- Michael Jackson has just passed away.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Jun 25, 2009)

yeah I just heard....cardiac arrest. 

RIP MJ.


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## Your Plump Princess (Jun 25, 2009)

....No. Fucking. Way..................................

Oh my god.
RIP MJ!


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## Shosh (Jun 25, 2009)

Is TMZ a reputable news source or just a tabloid rag? I would be waiting until official confirmation comes through from a reputable source myself.


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## tootsmendozer (Jun 25, 2009)

i was gonna say it hasnt been made offical yet its just still saying hes in hospital


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## GWARrior (Jun 25, 2009)

i just read two different stories and one said he was in hospital, but they were unable to comment on his condition. The other article said he was dead.

Wow. two in one day.


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## tootsmendozer (Jun 25, 2009)

not wanting to be morbid but bad luck always comes in three's...whos next? :S


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## indy500tchr (Jun 25, 2009)

Well Ed McManhon did just die a few days ago.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 25, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> i just read two different stories and one said he was in hospital, but they were unable to comment on his condition. The other article said he was dead.
> 
> Wow. two in one day.



I've seen one saying he's in a coma and another just that he is in the hospital.


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## tootsmendozer (Jun 25, 2009)

indy500tchr said:


> Well Ed McManhon did just die a few days ago.



oh ok i didnt know that...guess this is the third....sad  i wasnt teh biggest fan but still its never nice when some one like that dies


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## JoyJoy (Jun 25, 2009)

MSNBC just reported officially that he died at 12:21 LA time.


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## GWARrior (Jun 25, 2009)

tootsmendozer said:


> oh ok i didnt know that...guess this is the third....sad  i wasnt teh biggest fan but still its never nice when some one like that dies



someone like Farrah, Ed or MJ?

I have plenty to say about MJ :happy:


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## tootsmendozer (Jun 25, 2009)

just confirmed on sky news now, he suffered from chest pains slipped into a coma and passed on.


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## disconnectedsmile (Jun 25, 2009)

tootsmendozer said:


> not wanting to be morbid but bad luck always comes in three's...whos next? :S


Ed McMahon died Tuesday. Farrah Fawcett died today. and now Michael.

Micheal's death hasn't been officially confirmed by L.A. coroners, but it seems all but likely. i mean, he was not breathing when he entered the hospital.

L.A. Times has confirmed it: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/music_blog/2009/06/in-memorium-michael-jackson-dead-at-50.html


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## Your Plump Princess (Jun 25, 2009)

MSNBC Did a "Breaking News" Clip and it IS Confirmed, He Died minutes ago at USCLA Hospital from Cardiac Arrest. Someone close to MJ Said it looked "Grim" once paramedics arrived.


There goes ANOTHER person I dreamed of seeing Live.


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## Crystal (Jun 25, 2009)

It is a sad day.

While he didn't have the best reputation over the past 15 years or so, there is no doubt that he was one of the best entertainers of all time.


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## Still a Skye fan (Jun 25, 2009)

Omigoodness!

Two in one day? Yes, I'm old enough to remember enjoying The Jackson 5, when I was a little kid (anyone remember their cartoon series?), and, regardless of the eccentric man he turned into, the music world has lost an icon.

My condolences to his family and friends


Dennis


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## katorade (Jun 25, 2009)

RIP King of Pop. You made some great stuff before the '90s when you went off the deep end.

Gotta say, first David Carradine, now MJ. Two of the world's most eclectic characters gone. 

Wait, does this mean he's going to come back as a zombie with wicked choreography?


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## CurvaceousBBWLover (Jun 25, 2009)

RIP Michael Jackson.

Michael was one of my favorite entertainers. I really enjoyed his singing and his videos.


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## chocolate desire (Jun 25, 2009)

This news like Farrahs was such that when you read it you keep hoping it is not so.
RIP Mj.


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## Goddess Patty (Jun 25, 2009)

Two of my all time fav people ever and both gone now *cries*
There will NEVER be another entertainer like MJ. Im so saddened by all this.
and on my birthday.

Too depressed now to celebrate!


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## disconnectedsmile (Jun 25, 2009)

katorade said:


> Wait, does this mean he's going to come back as a zombie with wicked choreography?



yes. the comeback tour will continue as scheduled.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkjtctcuQ9Q


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## Les Toil (Jun 25, 2009)

Just heard a few minutes ago. WHat can you say other than wow.

Of course my second thought is that this is another one of his publicity stunts. Doesn't sound like it though.


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## Les Toil (Jun 25, 2009)

chocolate desire said:


> This news like Farrahs was such that when you read it you keep hoping it is not so.
> RIP Mj.



Farrah passed away too???


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## JoyJoy (Jun 25, 2009)

I was only a passing fan of Michael's, although I'll always love some of his music and I felt pity for his tortured soul. I hope he'll be able to rest in peace now. 

People die every day, of course, but David Carradine, Ed McMahon, Farrah Fawcett, Michael Jackson - all icons of my youth that I have very fond memories of. A big chunk of my childhood has died in rapid succession. Kind of shakes one up a little.


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## StridentDionysus (Jun 25, 2009)

The first concert I have memories of is MJ's here in Mexico City. I must have one of the tickets laying around here somewhere still. I was about six .


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## LillyBBBW (Jun 25, 2009)

Les Toil said:


> Farrah passed away too???



Her passing was reported just hours before Michael's.


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## Shosh (Jun 25, 2009)

Well Jackson's death has been confirmed.

To be honest I feel nothing in regards to his passing.


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## moniquessbbw (Jun 25, 2009)

I am so sad Mj is gone and Farrah all in one day. I am just going to go back to bed and start over tomorrow


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## swamptoad (Jun 25, 2009)

My wife first told me of this a couple of hours ago .. then I went for a drive into town .... and the radio station was playing one of his songs and then the radiostation guy talked and had several callers call in disbelief and shock. 


Sad day.



RIP -- Michael Jackson


I was reflecting back to my childhood days. I recall like when I was 5 years old in Kindergarten .... I really was in awe over Michael Jackson's music and break-dancing ability. And then even when I grew up he was still quite impressive.


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## RVGleason (Jun 25, 2009)

This is really very sad. An exceptional talent in the league of Elvis, Sinatra, The Beatles and just a handful of others. Despite the freak show his life later became, he was an amazing performer and musician who will be remembered as one of the greats in music. 

RIP Michael


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## jewels_mystery (Jun 25, 2009)

This is so sad. His songs represents the songs of my childhood. hopefully he will find the peace in the next life that he didn't have here.


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## William (Jun 25, 2009)

Hi 

Sad News

I believe that he had more great songs in him.


I use to stand in front of the TV and sing this one out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYx3BR2aJA4


William








jewels_mystery said:


> This is so sad. His songs represents the songs of my childhood. hopefully he will find the peace in the next life that he didn't have here.


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## Les Toil (Jun 25, 2009)

There's no words that can describe what it's like to be an 8-year-old black boy and only know pop stars--or stars or ANY type--as having white skin and straight hair. But then suddenly see a group of boys generally my age...of my skin tone...explode into one's life. Such a feeling is indescribable. For the younger posters here who have ONLY known pop stars to come in all different colors and shapes, it might be difficult to understand why such a ground-breaking pop star's passing would mean so much to so many people like me. Of my color and my age. Not only was Michael a star that looked like me, but he was a human with the type of talent I had never, ever, EVER seen before. Michael Jackson and his brothers CREATED the kid pop star phenomenon. At that time you either had the Beatles/Stones pop star or the middle-age vocalist pop star ala Sinatra, Dean Martin, Tom Jones, etc...

So yeah, for whatever sexual attraction he formulated for children--if that is a fact, someone in my shoes couldn't help but to wish for a cure for such a person, as opposed to wishing such a person a speedy trip to damnation.


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## Les Toil (Jun 25, 2009)

William said:


> Hi
> 
> Sad News
> 
> ...



I knew something was going to bring me to tears during this devastating news. That clip was it William. Thanks for posting it.


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## Emma (Jun 25, 2009)

It's very sad. I was in a club and the news came through that he'd died, then that he wasn't actually dead but was in a coma, but then again that he'd died. 

Everyone was telling jokes about it. And, I guess thats what people do when someone famous dies. I mean, I've told enough jokes about Jade Goody and others. 

I just felt sad. Sad, that he'd never been left alone and sad that he never got peace when he was here. 

Me and Nik decided to come home anyway. We listened to a few songs and smoked a joint in his name. I hope he finds peace where he is. I really do


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 25, 2009)

I may have had mixed feelings about who Michael Jackson was, but I feel very sad for his children and the family that he leaves behind. Regardless of whatever demons may have haunted him in his personal life, he was THE American icon. I doubt that there's ever been anyone more famous than him, and I doubt there ever will be.


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## Fascinita (Jun 25, 2009)

I can't help but feel a little sad for Michael Jackson tonight, no matter how difficult he made it to continue to admire him. I see him as symbolic of what's happened in American culture since the 1960s. In some sense, he signified the best of post-integration, post-Civil Rights popular culture--all of that genius and energy manifesting in him as a little boy was something; and I think that some of his personal struggles (e.g., the "bleached" skin and plastic surgery) can be traced back to the weight of the legacy of racism: it was almost like he struggled to embody a hybrid America that wanted to transcend race, but couldn't quite manage it. At the same time, there was something monstrous about him: the megalomania, the schizophrenic appearance and behavior, the inappropriate obsession with children... I just don't know that anyone could have handled his life without collapsing internally, though. He's definitely been a force to contend with in our popular imagination, almost mythically.


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## Canonista (Jun 25, 2009)

BigBellySSBBW said:


> yeah I just heard....cardiac arrest.
> 
> RIP MJ.



Finally, an arrest that sticks....:doh:

Seriously, the poor guy was a broken soul. I can't say I approved of his adult life, but it was a sad path indeed which got him there.

I hope he's finding the peace he never had in life.


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## Canonista (Jun 25, 2009)

Susannah said:


> Well Jackson's death has been confirmed.
> 
> To be honest I feel nothing in regards to his passing.


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## LillyBBBW (Jun 25, 2009)

I wonder what's to become of his children?


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 25, 2009)

I remember the exact moment I heard John Lennon died! To this day it is still one of the most devistating moments of my life. While I do not put Micheal Jackson on the same level they do have 2 things in common - they both changed music and deeply touched their fans.

So, I'm sad - remembering my grief and feeling for the fans that are dealing with their own today.


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## Paquito (Jun 25, 2009)

No matter what happened in his personal adult life, I will forever respect Michael for his truly outstanding music.

It's a sad day for all of us with the loss of this artist.


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## ashmamma84 (Jun 25, 2009)

I am still in shock -- I am so sad. I blasted his music all the way home today. He was a musical genius, an icon, a legend. He was bad! 

Ugh. I can't believe it's real.


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## jewels_mystery (Jun 25, 2009)

I was watching CNN coverage and they were interviewing a woman. She just burst into tears. She made a comment that hit home. "Michael Jackson, Madonna and Prince represented my childhood. Now one is dead". I love the man for his music, the art he created and the ground breaking work he did. His personal life is his business and only he can answer for that.


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## ashmamma84 (Jun 25, 2009)

jewels_mystery said:


> I was watching CNN coverage and they were interviewing a woman. She just burst into tears. She made a comment that hit home. "Michael Jackson, Madonna and Prince represented my childhood. Now one is dead". I love the man for his music, the art he created and the ground breaking work he did. His personal life is his business and only he can answer for that.



I agree. I think people tend to forget celebs' humanity. I am in no way defending the accusations, but I do think he had a troubled life from jump. I think he wanted love just like everyone else and probably didn't get it. Anyway, I just hope he's resting in peace now. 

Farrah Fawcett's death this morning and then this...I need a glass of wine.


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## jewels_mystery (Jun 25, 2009)

ashmamma84 said:


> I agree. I think people tend to forget celebs' humanity. I am in no way defending the accusations, but I do think he had a troubled life from jump. I think he wanted love just like everyone else and probably didn't get it. Anyway, I just hope he's resting in peace now.
> 
> Farrah Fawcett's death this morning and then this...I need a glass of wine.



I agree with you. He will be forever missed. I am opening up my bottle now. lol


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## Shosh (Jun 25, 2009)

LillyBBBW said:


> I wonder what's to become of his children?



Will they not go to Debbie Rowe their mother? I am not sure if she is the mother of all three though.

I do have concern for his children, and wish them a happy and peaceful life.


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## Mack27 (Jun 25, 2009)

Geraldo Rivera just called Michael Jackson post-racial on the news. I don't think that will sit well with some people.

I made my brother agree that if MJ ever toured in the US again that we'd both go. 

The 2 most popular albums in 7th grade (we voted on them in our mock elections) were Thriller and 1984. 

Fuck, I'll miss Michael.


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## Hole (Jun 25, 2009)

I am a huge Michael Jackson fan.I made a thread here a while ago and it was moved to hyde park. That says something. I am so heartbroken.He has been my inspiration since childhood.He revolutionized music, defined dance and broke race barriers. He truly is a rarity. There'll never be anyone like him. He had 50 concerts coming up, big plans. This was meant to be his year. Sigh.


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## Les Toil (Jun 25, 2009)

Mack27 said:


> Geraldo Rivera just called Michael Jackson post-racial on the news. I don't think that will sit well with some people.
> 
> I made my brother agree that if MJ ever toured in the US again that we'd both go.
> 
> The 2 most popular albums in 7th grade (we voted on them in our mock elections) were Thriller and 1984.



You mean 1999 (by Prince). And yeah Mack, those two records came out at the very same time and they're considered two of the most influential pop records in history.


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## olwen (Jun 25, 2009)

LillyBBBW said:


> I wonder what's to become of his children?



I had that same exact thought. 

I heard just now there was a spontaneous celebration on 125th street that blocked traffic. I almost put on my shoes to run uptown just to witness it.


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## Mack27 (Jun 25, 2009)

Les Toil said:


> You mean 1999 (by Prince). And yeah Mack, those two records came out at the very same time and they're considered two of the most influential pop records in history.



No, I mean 1984 by Van Halen. Boys picked 1984 and girls picked Thriller. Maybe it had something to do with "Jump" being a sort of unofficial theme song for the champion Boston Celtics that year. I recall everyone singing "Maxwell jump!" referring to Cedric Maxwell instead of "might as well jump!"


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## Les Toil (Jun 25, 2009)

Mack27 said:


> No, I mean 1984 by Van Halen. Boys picked 1984 and girls picked Thriller. Maybe it had something to do with "Jump" being a sort of unofficial theme song for the champion Boston Celtics that year.



Whoops! My bad, Mack. 

And for the record--as a Van Halen fan--I though 1984 stunk. The first album was beyond a masterpiece and "Women and Children First" and "Fair Warning" were great. I thought the song "Jump" was an unbearably tedious song with it's droning keyboards.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Jun 25, 2009)

Such sad news...I feel sorry for his children..At least this is one tortured soul that can now go rest and not be expected to make the money for the family any more.


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## Mathias (Jun 26, 2009)

This is such terrible news. The world lost an icon today.


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## BMOC (Jun 26, 2009)

He will be missed but not forgotten especially, at least not for the next few weeks with the media picking his bones. 

I'll always remember his dance moves. When I first saw him perform the song "Dancing Machine", I lost my mind. Magic feet, I said. 

Michael Jackson R.I.P.


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## Timberwolf (Jun 26, 2009)

Somehow, I'm quite sure he just joined Elvis.


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## mergirl (Jun 26, 2009)

Its a shame. Farrah Fawcett is like mother thereasa when Diana died.. Michael stole her death. I was going to have an early night and then i heard about MJ Popping his clogs so had to sit up watching the news into the early hours. It was sort of like watching a zombie film because everytime i blinked there were more people doddering outside the hospital. His music was amazing. I have all the Jackson 5 stuff and pretty much all of michaels solo stuff.. 'Earth song' was where i drew the line, what with him being god and reviving elephants..i just couldnt stomach that. Anyway, his music was great..as a man he seemed like a child bothering scumbag.. Still a bit unbelivable. Uri geller is a knob.


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## William (Jun 26, 2009)

Hi 

I heard Chuck D in a interview with NPR where he denounced some the media tactics (including NPR) that have started.

William 





BMOC said:


> He will be missed but not forgotten especially, at least not for the next few weeks with the media picking his bones.
> 
> I'll always remember his dance moves. When I first saw him perform the song "Dancing Machine", I lost my mind. Magic feet, I said.
> 
> Michael Jackson R.I.P.


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## mergirl (Jun 26, 2009)

Just a thought. I wonder if, at any point they are going to attribute MJ's heart attack to the fact that he was very very thin? It could well be all the drugs and stresses of fame but then Cass elliot smoked heroin, took amphetamines on and off for over 10 years and yet her heart attack was still 'obesity' related!!


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## Melian (Jun 26, 2009)

mergirl said:


> Just a thought. I wonder if, at any point they are going to attribute MJ's heart attack to the fact that he was very very thin? It could well be all the drugs and stresses of fame but then Cass elliot smoked heroin, took amphetamines on and off for over 10 years and yet her heart attack was still 'obesity' related!!



Probably not. Death/disease that may be exascerbated by being thin is never mentioned on the news, and it is speculated that he died of an opiate overdose (or so says my national news).

Personally, I never liked the guy, but there is still such a surreal feeling when someone THAT famous dies.


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## mergirl (Jun 26, 2009)

Melian said:


> Probably not. Death/disease that may be exascerbated by being thin is never mentioned on the news, and it is speculated that he died of an opiate overdose (or so says my national news).
> 
> Personally, I never liked the guy, but there is still such a surreal feeling when someone THAT famous dies.


Yeah.. its so surreal. I can't think of anyone else that will die in our lifetime that is SO famous. People are a different kind of famous now, so i don't think anyone will ever get as famous as him. Its weird, going for the paper all the headlines are very Glaring ..There could be ww3 going on and it would probably be consigned to a few sentences about 10 pages in and every car that goes by, you hear an MJ song. As i was walking my dog i had the MJ megamix going on in my head.. which is ok when its songs that are ok.. but generally its one line of "Earth song" going over and over in my head. Hmm i hate O.C.D!!!


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## mergirl (Jun 26, 2009)

Oh..apparently he converted to Islam about a few months ago. If this is the case it means he has to be burried within 24 hours of death. Oh..or maby 48 ..i forget.. no more than 48 though.


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## EllorionsDarlingAngel (Jun 26, 2009)

Still in shock..I can't believe in one week we lost 3 Big Stars..Crazy...

RIP Ed, Farrah and Michael!


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## mango (Jun 26, 2009)

*To be honest, I can't say I'm all that sad.

I was a big fan of Michael Jackson growing up - I loved all his music from the 70's, 80's & early 90's and had all his albums... but to me he died when he went from being a talented genius with a somewhat eccentric nature (something which I totally identify with) to a total circus act / freak show who could not shake off the allegations of kiddie abuse.

I know it was never officially proven but at least no more kids will suffer from what he may have done. Maybe now that he's gone, some of these victims will come out and tell their story.

I think of the cartoon I saw in the news today of God reading the news of MJ's death and flipping a coin to decide whether he goes to heaven or hell. Although I don't believe in heaven & hell (or God for that matter), I think it does sum up the mood of many of his disillusioned fans.

So here's to the MJ that I remember.. RIP.
And here's a clip of "that moment" at the Motown 25th Anniversary when he brought the underground breakdance "moonwalk" move to the mainstream (3:40-3:45). 
One of the many peaks in his stellar career.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=0ipk3kL_soU


*


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## smithnwesson (Jun 26, 2009)

R. I. P. He was a great performer.


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## mejix (Jun 26, 2009)

we saw the jackson 5 in puerto rico some time in the early 70's. though i cant remember much of the concert any way. my older siblings had the "dancing machine" LP and i was not supposed to come close to it but did anyway. i was at an age that anything that my siblings liked i liked too. so i remember that period fondly.

by the time "thriller" came out i was a cynical teenager. from that period on i had that combination of admiration and repulsion, and pity for michael jackson. more of the later two as the years passed. 

i do remember hanging out my friends in high school and trying to the moonwalk. it was a big mess.


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## Canonista (Jun 26, 2009)

Susannah said:


> Will they not go to Debbie Rowe their mother? I am not sure if she is the mother of all three though.
> 
> I do have concern for his children, and wish them a happy and peaceful life.



Well.... They're definitely safer now.

Considering he was somthing around 300-400 million in debt I don't think they're going to have an easy life on Whacko Jacko's estate. The battle over his stuff will likely be the next media circus.


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## Canonista (Jun 26, 2009)

Les Toil said:


> Whoops! My bad, Mack.
> 
> And for the record--as a Van Halen fan--I though 1984 stunk. The first album was beyond a masterpiece and "Women and Children First" and "Fair Warning" were great. I thought the song "Jump" was an unbearably tedious song with it's droning keyboards.



Diver Down was their best. It all went downhill from there.


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## GWARrior (Jun 26, 2009)

honestly, could NOT care less.

Never liked his music, never liked him. He creeped me out beyond belief and I really think he messed up some kids for life.

I couldnt even sleep last night I was so upset... because of every fucking tv station chattering about him alllll niggghhhttt loooonnnggg.

Basically glorifying a predator.


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## Hole (Jun 26, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> honestly, could NOT care less.
> 
> Never liked his music, never liked him. He creeped me out beyond belief and I really think he messed up some kids for life.
> 
> ...



Paying tribute to a legend. It's sad he has to die for some people to realize his greatness.


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## smithnwesson (Jun 26, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> Basically glorifying a predator.



I suspect that it's probably more complicated than that. Anyway, this is how I choose to remember him:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_hz2am90Hk&feature=related


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## 1300 Class (Jun 26, 2009)

I was more shocked to find out he stood six feet tall than anything else when the news broke. I always thought he would have been quite short.

His music was before my time, and really I'll remember him for his eccentric (well down right bizarre) personal behavior and unsavory allagations made against him.


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## GWARrior (Jun 26, 2009)

Hole said:


> Paying tribute to a legend. It's sad he has to die for some people to realize his greatness.



I dont think he was great at all. I think he molested children.


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## JoyJoy (Jun 26, 2009)

I don't remember all the facts surrounding the molestation charges, so I read up a little to refresh my memory. The way I understand it, a person is innocent until proven guilty. A jury exonerated him. 

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/13/jackson.trial/index.html

I do understand those who remained suspicious of him, even after the trial. But he was an easy target. He was deeply disturbed, and extremely weird and tortured inside, obviously. I don't think any of us can say either way what the truth of the accusations are. 

To me, he was always just there - a part of the culture I've lived in. I've enjoyed his music, and as he grew more and more strange, his role in that culture changed, and he became a curiosity and someone for people to gawk at and joke about. I can't say either way if he turned into the monster some accuse him of being because there's no way to know...ever. So I choose to remain ambivalent to that aspect of him. That's not to say I'd excuse him if the accusations are true, but since there's no definite answer, it's pointless to me and a waste of energy to harbor bad feelings toward him. 

Because his death obviously has been at the forefront of many people's minds, including mine, I've spent some time listening to more of his music and reading about him. What I choose to remember him for is the love he exuded for mankind in his music, for his tender nature. I choose to recognize that those who were closest to him have always stood by him, even through the trial and his money problems - that in itself says something about the man, in my estimation. 

I understand that some are disturbed that people are mourning his death because you feel he was a horrible person. Obviously not everyone shares that opinion. It shows a great lack of respect to those people who are saddened to come into this thread and complain about it.


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## GWARrior (Jun 26, 2009)

Just because he wasnt convicted doesnt mean he was innocent. I dont believe he was and thats what Im sticking with.


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## JoyJoy (Jun 26, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> Just because he wasnt convicted doesnt mean he was innocent. I dont believe he was and thats what Im sticking with.


That's fine...you certainly have that right...but since this is the RIP thread for those who do care that he died, your posting here is out of place and rude. You know I love ya, GWA, but there's an entire thread just for people to complain about this. Please go there.


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## Mathias (Jun 26, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> I dont think he was great at all. I think he molested children.



You think that, but I don't. What I do think is that it shows a lack of class on your part to come into a thread honoring him for all of the positive things he's done for the music industry and just talk about molestation charges that he was exonerated of. I'm choosing to remember the artist and not the monster people made him out to be.


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## GWARrior (Jun 27, 2009)

AND IM CHOOSING TO POST THIS RIGHT HERE BECAUSE I CAN.

sometimes i get so sick of this board.

fuck


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## Mathias (Jun 27, 2009)

Well, then don't get pissed when other people object to it.


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## JoyJoy (Jun 27, 2009)

Sure you can, but that doesn't make it less rude and out of place. This is a society, much like real life. You'd be considered rude if you barged into a conversation about someone dying and talked about how much you hated the person. Why would it be okay here?


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## Wagimawr (Jun 27, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> I dont think he was great at all. I think he molested children.


His talent was great; his personal decisions and lifestyle were at best questionable, and at worst abhorrent.

You can separate the art from the artist, and many times it's necessary to do so to avoid disregarding or dismissing a lot of great art.


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## GWARrior (Jun 27, 2009)

JoyJoy said:


> Sure you can, but that doesn't make it less rude and out of place. This is a society, much like real life. You'd be considered rude if you barged into a conversation about someone dying and talked about how much you hated the person. Why would it be okay here?



because this is not life. this is a website. im so done with this shit.

fuck mj
fuckthis


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## Mathias (Jun 27, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNl2Pm9-7Vk


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## JoyJoy (Jun 27, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> because this is not life. this is a website. im so done with this shit.
> 
> fuck mj
> fuckthis


 Classy. Thanks for understanding.


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## Wagimawr (Jun 27, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> this is not life. this is a website.


To _spartaaaa_ or not to _spartaaaa_...





...











ALSO relevant to the last 10 posts or so...


----------



## george83 (Jun 27, 2009)

The first album ever owned was Bad on tape cassette, and I played it non stop! To me it's easily one of the top 5 albums ever made.

The man was a legend and always will be a legend, he now joins Elvis, John Lennon and Kurt Cobain as artists who died to young.

R.I.P M.J.


----------



## Canonista (Jun 27, 2009)

Hole said:


> Paying tribute to a legend. It's sad he has to die for some people to realize his greatness.



He was just a "pop music" act.

He didn't cure cancer. His "greatness" was very superficial.


----------



## Wayne_Zitkus (Jun 27, 2009)

Hole said:


> Paying tribute to a legend. It's sad he has to die for some people to realize his greatness.


And it's equally sad that some people don't realize that they're misdirecting their admiration toward someone who does not deserve it. As far as I'm concerned, Michael Jackson was an over-rated, egotistical pedophile, and the world will go on quite nicely without him.


----------



## Wayne_Zitkus (Jun 27, 2009)

Timberwolf said:


> Somehow, I'm quite sure he just joined Elvis.


If he did, he must be explaining to Elvis why he married Lisa Marie...


----------



## Wayne_Zitkus (Jun 27, 2009)

JoyJoy said:


> That's fine...you certainly have that right...but since this is the RIP thread for those who do care that he died, your posting here is out of place and rude. You know I love ya, GWA, but there's an entire thread just for people to complain about this. Please go there.


This is a board where people post their opinions. If some of us don't agree with your opinion, that's just the way it is.


----------



## Wayne_Zitkus (Jun 27, 2009)

JoyJoy said:


> That's fine...you certainly have that right...but since this is the RIP thread for those who do care that he died, your posting here is out of place and rude. You know I love ya, GWA, but there's an entire thread just for people to complain about this. Please go there.


And the pro-Michael Jackson posts in the other thread would then be considered equally out-of-place. Michael Jackson evoked strong reactions from other people - both positive and negative. And those of us who hold a negative opinion of him and his "contributions" have just as much right to post them as anyone else.


----------



## Wayne_Zitkus (Jun 27, 2009)

Mathias said:


> I'm choosing to remember the artist and not the monster people made him out to be.


People didn't make Michael Jackson out to be a monster. His actions did it.


----------



## Wayne_Zitkus (Jun 27, 2009)

Canonista said:


> He was just a "pop music" act.
> 
> He didn't cure cancer. His "greatness" was very superficial.


We've disagreed on many subjects in the past, but on this point I completely agree with you, Canonista.


----------



## Wild Zero (Jun 27, 2009)

I want the American justice system to depend on MY feelings, not this trial by jury nonsense.


----------



## swamptoad (Jun 27, 2009)

JoyJoy said:


> I don't remember all the facts surrounding the molestation charges, so I read up a little to refresh my memory. The way I understand it, a person is innocent until proven guilty. A jury exonerated him.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/13/jackson.trial/index.html
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing this reply. Its a very good one.


----------



## Mack27 (Jun 27, 2009)

I don't think any children's lives were ruined by Michael Jackson, I know that many children's lives were enriched by him. He gave more to and created more charities than any other musical artist. Tens of millions to charities, mostly helping kids, what have any of us done to compare to that? 

Pop music is what it is because of him, I defy you to find a top 40 artist in the past 20 years who doesn't give him some props. You may think pop music isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things, but it affects all of us on some level.


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## JoyJoy (Jun 27, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> And the pro-Michael Jackson posts in the other thread would then be considered equally out-of-place. Michael Jackson evoked strong reactions from other people - both positive and negative. And those of us who hold a negative opinion of him and his "contributions" have just as much right to post them as anyone else.


Sure, you have a right to be rude just like anyone else. Impressive, Wayne.


----------



## fatgirlflyin (Jun 27, 2009)

george83 said:


> The first album ever owned was Bad on tape cassette, and I played it non stop! To me it's easily one of the top 5 albums ever made.
> 
> The man was a legend and always will be a legend, he now joins Elvis, John Lennon and Kurt Cobain as artists who died to young.
> 
> R.I.P M.J.



My first album ever was Thriller on cassette tape! 

The man truly helped shape pop music as it is today and influenced a great many artist from all different genres! I do believe that he molested those children, but his talent didn't go away because of that.


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Jun 27, 2009)

JoyJoy said:


> Sure, you have a right to be rude just like anyone else. Impressive, Wayne.


I'm not being rude - I'm being realistic.

No other threads on Dims have stipulations attached to them on what can and cannot be posted on them, provided poste do not violate the established rules. Why should this thread be any different?


----------



## Wayne_Zitkus (Jun 27, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> The man truly helped shape pop music as it is today and influenced a great many artist from all different genres! I do believe that he molested those children, but his talent didn't go away because of that.


And his "talent" doesn't excuse his actions, either.


----------



## JoyJoy (Jun 27, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> I'm not being rude - I'm being realistic.
> 
> No other threads on Dims have stipulations attached to them on what can and cannot be posted on them, provided poste do not violate the established rules. Why should this thread be any different?


It's called courtesy...something most adults learn, but for some reason believe doesn't apply on a message board. 

Way to stand up for your rights, Wayne. You win.


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## moby-jones (Jun 27, 2009)

R.I.P michael,

your influence on music, dance and videoclips shall never be accomplished by someone else.


----------



## olwen (Jun 27, 2009)

Canonista said:


> He was just a "pop music" act.
> 
> He didn't cure cancer. His "greatness" was very superficial.



Don't underestimate the power of pop music and art. It's accessible, which is what makes it popular. There's a lot of pop music I don't like but I respect its place in our culture. Moreover, there is an entire area of academic study devoted to popular culture. It has it's place and it's affects on the populace cannot be denied.


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Jun 27, 2009)

JoyJoy said:


> It's called courtesy...something most adults learn, but for some reason believe doesn't apply on a message board.
> 
> Way to stand up for your rights, Wayne. You win.


Nice play for martyrdom, Joy.....


----------



## olwen (Jun 27, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> And it's equally sad that some people don't realize that they're misdirecting their admiration toward someone who does not deserve it. As far as I'm concerned, Michael Jackson was an over-rated, egotistical pedophile, and the world will go on quite nicely without him.



Wayne, I have really strong opinions about a lot of things, but I have learned the hard way, you can't tell people what to like or not like. You may not think he deserves praise for his music, but there is an entire world of people who would disagree with you. His personal life was a complete mess, but as far as I'm concerned, his massive contribution to music and to black people (in elevating and legitimizing our status as influential artists) is immeasurable and deserves respect for that. You have every right to hate the guy, and you don't even have to understand why other people like him, but at least respect the fact that other people do and for good reasons despite his personal life.


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## JoyJoy (Jun 27, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> Nice play for martyrdom, Joy.....



Oooh...good one. Yep, I dream of being a martyr for the cause of courtesy. 
You are the man. The man who stood up for himself so he could cut someone else down when people are trying to appreciate him. Score one for you.


----------



## Wayne_Zitkus (Jun 27, 2009)

olwen said:


> Wayne, I have really strong opinions about a lot of things, but I have learned the hard way, you can't tell people what to like or not like. You may not think he deserves praise for his music, but there is an entire world of people who would disagree with you. His personal life was a complete mess, but as far as I'm concerned, his massive contribution to music and to black people (in elevating and legitimizing our status as influential artists) is immeasurable and deserves respect for that. You have every right to hate the guy, and you don't even have to understand why other people like him, but at least respect the fact that other people do and for good reasons despite his personal life.


I don't hate him - I just think people are making WAY too much fuss about his passing.


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## Mathias (Jun 27, 2009)

So respect the fact that people choose to mourn his passing.


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Jun 27, 2009)

Mathias said:


> So respect the fact that people choose to mourn his passing.


And respect the fact that others choose not to.

I've said my piece. I'll leave this thread to those who wish to continue to wallow in mis-directed hero worship.


----------



## olwen (Jun 27, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> I don't hate him - I just think people are making WAY too much fuss about his passing.



That's what happens when people are affected by art.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 27, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> And his "talent" doesn't excuse his actions, either.



I didn't say that it did, nor did I see anyone else suggest that it did.


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## Wild Zero (Jun 27, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> And respect the fact that others choose not to.
> 
> I've said my piece. I'll leave this thread to those who wish to continue to wallow in mis-directed hero worship.



And when Wayne's posts are dead and gone...you know that Dims survives...so we can post foreverrrrrrrrr


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## Hole (Jun 27, 2009)

My fandom started with 'Moonwalker'. I found it on video tape and fell in love with the King of Pop.(Speaking of which, Michael didn't just cover pop. He covered genres such as rock and country too.Explore and you'll know what I mean. ) Whenever I had doubts about his innocence, I did my research.Important rule: tabloids shouldn't be your source.I think he was messed up but he wasn't a monster. Just a very tortured soul. I didn't grow up in the spotlight but I relate to him on more than one level. The physical abuse he endured growing up, the serious insecurities about his appearance, the loneliness, the obsession with perfection. This is common with many fans.I've always felt like a freak and he made me feel like it's okay to be different.He could have turned into his father but he didn't. He chose to take his pain and turn it into strength, into something beautiful: Art and kindness and compassion. That is what inspires me. Listen to his songs like stranger in moscow, childhood, will you be there and someone put your hand out. These are songs that show a glimpse of the demons inside. These are songs that have helped me get through the worst times of my life.Of course I'm going to be emotional when it comes to a man who made a difference in my life. Yes, Michael's death is worthy of being the centre of attention. His mission was to make changes in the world...to prevent horrible news headlines like the Iran crisis.Michael's aim was to spread awareness on issues such as Aids and global warming, he raised millions for the Heal The World foundation,released charity singles. He was not flawless but he was special.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0mcxmCGetI


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## Mathias (Jun 27, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> And respect the fact that others choose not to.
> 
> I've said my piece. I'll leave this thread to those who wish to continue to wallow in mis-directed hero worship.



Nice.  So who should we worship then?


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## Canonista (Jun 27, 2009)

Mathias said:


> Nice.  So who should we worship then?



Try God.


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## fffff (Jun 27, 2009)

olwen said:


> That's what happens when people are affected by art.



hear, hear!

No individual's music ever has been or ever will be as universal as Michael Jackson's.

In every part of the world, every ethnicity, age, rich, poor, everyone has listened to a Michael Jackson song. I grew up around people who didn't speak a word of English, but knew the chorus of Billie Jean by heart. I have traveled to Western Europe, Eastern Europe, the US, Asia, and the Middle East. Radically different cultures, and in each place I have witnessed people grooving to a Jackson song. 

His _music_ broke all barriers and the world is a happier place because of his _music_. 

If you don't start smiling and moving when you hear "don't stop til you get enough," you have no soul.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 27, 2009)

Canonista said:


> Try God.



and those of us that don't believe in god?
Nevermind, I'll just keep wallowing...


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## Your Plump Princess (Jun 27, 2009)

I Love how people like to be all 'HE RAPD BOYZ' 
Yeah? So do catholic priests. But Millions of people go to them weekly. 

His MUSIC is what was important.
As a Musician, he was a GENIUS.
But as a Person, I'll admit, he was a bit off. 


Think about it though?
When did he have a chance to grow up?
From the age of 9 he was a STAR.
Stars do not grow up. They don't HAVE to. 


Enough of this 'HEZ A MOLESTAR' Crap.
He's Dead.
Can't we have -SOME- Respect for the dead? Please? :/


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## Wild Zero (Jun 27, 2009)

I already mentioned the _Moonwalker_ bootleg I had as a little kid in the favorite song thread but I feel like sharing one of my favorite Michael moments.

A couple summers ago Kelly's niece and nephews came to stay with us for a month or so. Playing the part of "cool auntie and uncle" we'd let them keep odd hours, go to the beach at 3 in the morning to play soccer or pack into our car and go for aimless rides in the middle of the night. Headed home from one of those rides, Gardner, MA coming up with Michael Jackson's discography on my mp3 player, I realized I could pull off an awesome prank. A quick whisper and Kelly was in.

Thriller's on as we get off Route 2, headed for Crystal Lake Cemetery (or "You kids hungry? There's a 24 hour Wendy's here!"). Pull into the graveyard while Vincent Price "raps" and just before the song ends I cut the engine, lights and Kelly stops the track right before his laugh.

PANIC! I act like the car's broken down and while I'm opening the door to check under the hood she hits play.







The niece got out of the car and didn't stop running until she was out of the cemetery.


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## Tina (Jun 28, 2009)

Michael Jackson and I were about the same age. I am 11 days older. I've followed his career since we were both children, and I so liked him when he sang with his brothers, as I did as he grew up and decided to strike out on his own. 

I've always loved his music because it never failed to make me want to dance. His ability to dance and move his body in seemingly impossible ways was always such a wonder to behold. I thought he was very handsome and was so disappointed when he started in with the plastic surgery. I was even more disappointed, and angry, when I read account after account of his father's abusive, manipulative ways.

Before I moved to Canada I lived in Santa Maria, CA, which is where his trial was held. My old high school guidance counselor was the foreman of the jury that acquitted him. Mr. Rodriquez was always a fair guy, and I can't believe he was any different when it came to the trial. He had some doubts, but only doubts, not certainty, and in any case he had to go by the law. We don't know that Michael did that, and we don't know that he didn't. Even the jury seemed not to know, but they had to follow the law, and I believe the law in such cases is just, and we would all hope for justice were we the ones in the hot seat. The idea of justice and retribution are often two different things in many minds, depending upon which side of the fence one is standing. I felt, and feel, that if he was guilty he would have deserved whatever he got, and if he wasn't, then what a travesty that was in his life to be falsely accused. I am not unable to believe either that an adult would take advantage of children, or that an adult would use a child -- their child -- for their own gain. 

It's not up to me to judge in any case, but when I think of Michael, I prefer to think of his talent and the things he gave the world. Did he cure cancer? No, but he gave millions joy and fun with his talent, and that's no little thing.

I do think it's tacky for someone to go into a thread where people are mourning and honoring someone and say vile things. You feel that way, why not start your own thread instead? I never liked a certain president who died not terribly long ago, but I didn't go into the thread in HP at the time and say nasty things; that's just classless. That didn't stop some from doing it then either, though.

Those who know me well would know that I am no defender of child molesters or anyone who has been violent to a child in any way. But I think that people who are so certain that Michael was guilty should have been at the trial to give their proof. I believe that's called "put up or shut up."


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## Isa (Jun 28, 2009)

Tina said:


> Michael Jackson and I were about the same age. I am 11 days older. I've followed his career since we were both children, and I so liked him when he sang with his brothers, as I did as he grew up and decided to strike out on his own.
> 
> I've always loved his music because it never failed to make me want to dance. His ability to dance and move his body in seemingly impossible ways was always such a wonder to behold. I thought he was very handsome and was so disappointed when he started in with the plastic surgery. I was even more disappointed, and angry, when I read account after account of his father's abusive, manipulative ways.
> 
> ...



Thank you Tina for saying this!


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## JoyJoy (Jun 28, 2009)

Thank you, Tina.


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## GWARrior (Jun 28, 2009)

yes lets have a big circle jerk


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## Mathias (Jun 28, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> yes lets have a big circle jerk



You still came back.


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## GWARrior (Jun 28, 2009)

Im Trying To Get Banned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Mathias (Jun 28, 2009)

How's that different from just not coming to the site for awhile? I'm curious.


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## Mathias (Jun 28, 2009)

Well, by all means keep trying!


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## fffff (Jun 28, 2009)

> Did he cure cancer? No, but he gave millions joy and fun with his talent, and that's no little thing.



Worth quoting again. 

It wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that MJ's talent has made over a billion people happy at some point in there lives. 

Acting as if that's not a HUGE accomplishment is un-fucking-believable.


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## GWARrior (Jun 28, 2009)

yess i often get joy from a chi-mo


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## Wild Zero (Jun 28, 2009)

Stop the criminal justice system, GWARior wants to get off.


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## Wagimawr (Jun 28, 2009)

For the Michael haters:

When Farrah Fawcett reached heaven, God asked her, "Farrah, you've lived a good life, and because of that I'll grant you what you want most; just name it." Farrah thought about it and said, "I want all the children of the world to be safe." So God killed Michael Jackson. please don't ban gwarrior, mods, it'll be hilarious.


Wild Zero said:


> The niece got out of the car and didn't stop running until she was out of the cemetery.


This is the best thing ever.



Wayne_Zitkus said:


> I'll leave this thread to those who wish to continue to wallow in mis-directed hero worship.





Mathias said:


> Nice.  So who should we worship then?





Canonista said:


> Try God.





Ella Bella said:


> and those of us that don't believe in god?



Hey, Wayne said it.


----------



## swamptoad (Jun 28, 2009)

Tina said:


> Michael Jackson and I were about the same age. I am 11 days older. I've followed his career since we were both children, and I so liked him when he sang with his brothers, as I did as he grew up and decided to strike out on his own.
> 
> I've always loved his music because it never failed to make me want to dance. His ability to dance and move his body in seemingly impossible ways was always such a wonder to behold. I thought he was very handsome and was so disappointed when he started in with the plastic surgery. I was even more disappointed, and angry, when I read account after account of his father's abusive, manipulative ways.
> 
> ...




Thanks much for sharing this, Tina!


----------



## Santaclear (Jun 28, 2009)

What a sad, disturbing story his life seems to have been. I did love the _Thriller_ and _Off the Wall_ albums. RIP, Michael.


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## Tooz (Jun 28, 2009)

I love all the misguided cretins who are bashing MJ and those who are sad that he has passed because it's so obvious as to WHY he is being so widely mourned, but these people are too myopic to see it.

People may not be mourning the loss of MJ per se, but they ARE mourning the pop icon they grew up with. MJ was the very definition of iconic, and for such a long time. As I have heard someone say, MJ's music was such a big part of their life, and him dying is the end of a truly legendary pop star. I feel tremendous pity for MJ, as he was obviously messed up. People who are "Glad he's gone" just look like heartless bitches. Things he went to trial for were pretty awful, but if they didn't stick, they didn't stick and couldn't be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

If you brought something great to the world, would you seriously want everyone to only fixate on the stupid things you MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE done in your life at the time of your death? Really?


----------



## Suze (Jun 28, 2009)

Thanks for that kick ass concert back in the 90's.
I'll never forget it, you were great!






















What can i say, i'm the gif-girl...


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## GWARrior (Jun 28, 2009)

yes i am myopic

im also electric

and i want off.


----------



## jcas50 (Jun 28, 2009)

I was a huge fan of Michael Jackson. I am deeply saddened by his passing. My daughter had tickets to see him at the O2 on July 28. She cried uncontrollably for hours when she heard the news. 

I work in a community health center in New Haven. On Friday, everyone I work with was struck with grief. Everyone was a fan. Then that night, I went to the annual picnic for my Catholic Church choir, where I sing. The polite ones would say he had great talent but a deeply flawed life. The rude ones were quick to extol the vitriol. All I can say is I really think I work in the right place. 

RIP Michael, we will never see another like you.


----------



## Fascinita (Jun 28, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> I dont think he was great at all. I think he molested children.



I hear you on this. I have completely mixed feelings about it, myself. I think, "No, there is no conclusive evidence, but what if that's because his money bought that." In some sense I feel like no one will ever know what to make of his strange behavior toward children. Plus, I think it would be a bad precedent to set, saying that people's achievements somehow exonerate them from their possibly criminal behavior. Children don't have a lot of power, and predators take advantage of precisely that. So it's important to remember that we should take allegations of abuse seriously.

I think in the end, though, that whether you believe the justice system failed those kids--it's certainly possible--or you believe it exonerated him, both sides have to accept that it's a *complicated* set of facts he leaves us with, and that we may never know conclusively, one way or the other, what really happened. To say that the justice system never fails is to ignore reality, just as to want to lynch him posthumously ignores the fact that he seems to have paid a steep price for living in the limelight.

In short, I see what you're railing at: The image of the sexual predator who "gets away with it" because he has money and power is abhorent. I don't see anything wrong with making your views clear, so long as you realize what you're up against--many people obviously do not see it your way, possibly even for the same reasons you believe influenced the decision to acquit him, but not everyone sees it your way. That is their prerogative, and some have given fair, reasoned arguments for their stance. In the end, it has to be enough for anyone to stand by her beliefs in a situation like this. Even if what you believe turns out to make you unpopular and you feel antagonized, it's up to you to continue to stand up for it. Not sure that asking to be banned accomplishes anything. I like your presence here too much to let you disappear without saying something about it.


----------



## Mathias (Jun 28, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> yes i am myopic
> 
> im also electric
> 
> and i want off.



You stay classy, you hear?


----------



## Shawna (Jun 28, 2009)

What I loved most about Michael Jackson is that his music is loved by so many in so many different countries and by people from different racial and ethnic backgrounds. To me, that's a beautiful thing. 


Not to mention that Thriller is the best music video ever made. That video has been referenced in so many different movies and tv shows. Lots of people have benefited from what Michael Jackson did for the music world. That is a fact and nothing can change that!


----------



## Tina (Jun 28, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> yes i am myopic
> 
> im also electric
> 
> and i want off.


If you want off, why not have some self-control and ignore this thread? No one is making you read now, are they?


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Mathias said:


> Nice.  So who should we worship then?



Oooooo Ooooooo I know, I know - GOD! Or Goddess or and powerful super being who controls heaven and earth and creates worlds of wonder and beauty. Micheal Jackson? C'mon, worship?


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

OK wait a minute. Ignore the crime (cause ya know he was never convicted - but he was a man in his 40's sleeping with children in his bed) but lets remember his Art!?

Does that go for OJ Simpson too?????


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## katherine22 (Jun 28, 2009)

Michael Jackson was a brilliant artist whose life was under incredible scrutiny that very few people could hold up to.


----------



## katherine22 (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> OK wait a minute. Ignore the crime (cause ya know he was never convicted - but he was a man in his 40's sleeping with children in his bed) but lets remember his Art!?
> 
> Does that go for OJ Simpson too?????



In many cultures adults sleep with children and it has no sexual connotation. There is nothing intrinsically sexual in sharing a bed with a child.


----------



## prettysteve (Jun 28, 2009)

Still a Skye fan said:


> Omigoodness!
> 
> Two in one day? Yes, I'm old enough to remember enjoying The Jackson 5, when I was a little kid (anyone remember their cartoon series?), and, regardless of the eccentric man he turned into, the music world has lost an icon.
> 
> ...



I also remember watching the Jackson 5 cartoon series.By the way here is an old video clip of the cartoon....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbC8Jx2WLpk


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

katherine22 said:


> In many cultures adults sleep with children and it has no sexual connotation. There is nothing intrinsically sexual in sharing a bed with a child.




Maybe - but in this culture, it's not normal. If they were his kids that might be different, but they weren't. You don't pay parents to let their kids have a sleep over with a grown man. You just don't.

As a survivor of childhood sexual abuse - this just stinks to high heaven for me.


----------



## fatgirlflyin (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> OK wait a minute. Ignore the crime (cause ya know he was never convicted - but he was a man in his 40's sleeping with children in his bed) but lets remember his Art!?
> 
> Does that go for OJ Simpson too?????




Yes. OJ was not convicted. I think he probably did it but a jury of his peers said there wasn't enough evidence. 

The suspicion of guilt doesn't take away his accomplishments on the football field. IMO


----------



## Wild Zero (Jun 28, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> Yes. OJ was not convicted. I think he probably did it but a jury of his peers said there wasn't enough evidence.
> 
> The suspicion of guilt doesn't take away his accomplishments on the football field. IMO



Or his accomplishments in the awesome _Naked Gun_ films.


----------



## Tina (Jun 28, 2009)

I think that if one is talking OJ and MJ, we're talking apples and oranges. Very red-herring-like comparison, IMO.

While people can post where they like, I do think that since this is the "Michael Jackson RIP" thread, there is a "Tired of hearing about MJ" thread that seems the perfect place for railing against a man who is now dead anyway, and whose opinions will not change the opinions or feelings for those who would like to recognize the positives about the man.

Further, I think that people who dislike the Tired of Hearing about thread should do what some cannot do in this thread and stay away, and let them have their hatred/discontent/scorn/whatever.


----------



## Wayne_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Tina said:


> I think that if one is talking OJ and MJ, we're talking apples and oranges. Very red-herring-like comparison, IMO.
> 
> While people can post where they like, I do think that since this is the "Michael Jackson RIP" thread, there is a "Tired of hearing about MJ" thread that seems the perfect place for railing against a man who is now dead anyway, and whose opinions will not change the opinions or feelings for those who would like to recognize the positives about the man.
> 
> Further, I think that people who dislike the Tired of Hearing about thread should do what some cannot do in this thread and stay away, and let them have their hatred/discontent/scorn/whatever.


That would be fine, Tina. Except we have a bunch of pro-Michael people going over there criticizing what they see and telling us what we should and should not post.

I've stopped posting on this thread, aswas requested. All I ask is those who are not tired of MJ please stop posting in the other thread. Courtesy works both ways, ya know.


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## Tina (Jun 28, 2009)

And yet you're still posting in this thread. I have acknowledged that people are going to post where they want to, and made a suggestion to stay away if people don't like it here out of respect for someone who just died. And I made that request, as a fellow poster, not as a moderator, in this thread to stay away from that one, too, if it's objectionable. I didn't go running over to the other thread to post a blanket chastisement, and except as a moderator in the case of rules violations, it's not up to me to tell people where, or where not, to post, but instead made a request, as a fellow poster regarding both threads.

I'm personally not concerned with what's going on over in the other thread unless rules are being broken. Take care of that thread there, please.


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## Fish (Jun 28, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> That would be fine, Tina. Except we have a bunch of pro-Michael people going over there criticizing what they see and telling us what we should and should not post.
> 
> I've stopped posting on this thread, aswas requested. All I ask is those who are not tired of MJ please stop posting in the other thread. Courtesy works both ways, ya know.



So where does you taking your petulant commentary about Michael Jackson to the BILLY MAYS thread measure on that courtesy scale of yours? Seriously?

Nobody here is elevating Michael Jackson to sainthood except for those irate that we're not all verbally burning him in effigy. Believe it or not, not everyone is obliged to think the way you do. 

I have no idea if he was really guilty of what he was alleged of doing, but I know he wasn't found guilty and in spite of the multiple accusations, nothing was ever proven. So I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt and instead mourn the passing of an entertainment icon whose music and videos gave me countless hours of joy and, on occasion, prompted me to think about unpleasant things in the world like hunger and the suffering of others. 

I don't worship him, but I'm sad that he's done creating entertainment and will now never get the opportunity to turn the circus his life became around.


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## Mathias (Jun 28, 2009)

Fish said:


> So where does you taking your petulant commentary about Michael Jackson to the BILLY MAYS thread measure on that courtesy scale of yours? Seriously?
> 
> Nobody here is elevating Michael Jackson to sainthood except for those irate that we're not all verbally burning him in effigy. Believe it or not, not everyone is obliged to think the way you do.
> 
> ...



Now hold on, Wayne was only making an observation.


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## Edens_heel (Jun 28, 2009)

Fish said:


> So where does you taking your petulant commentary about Michael Jackson to the BILLY MAYS thread measure on that courtesy scale of yours? Seriously?
> 
> Nobody here is elevating Michael Jackson to sainthood except for those irate that we're not all verbally burning him in effigy. Believe it or not, not everyone is obliged to think the way you do.
> 
> ...



Very well said - I agree especially with the last paragraph.


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## Edens_heel (Jun 28, 2009)

Mathias said:


> Now hold on, Wayne was only making an observation.



"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mathias again."

Damn rules!


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Then I must be one of the few who views criminals as criminals and whatever they did before that was meaningless given what they did. It is not apples and oranges it's crime against adults vz crime against children. I view that latter very differently and with much more disgust and disdisdain.

This whole *Micheal the Saint* crap is just that.







Tina said:


> I think that if one is talking OJ and MJ, we're talking apples and oranges. Very red-herring-like comparison, IMO.
> 
> While people can post where they like, I do think that since this is the "Michael Jackson RIP" thread, there is a "Tired of hearing about MJ" thread that seems the perfect place for railing against a man who is now dead anyway, and whose opinions will not change the opinions or feelings for those who would like to recognize the positives about the man.
> 
> Further, I think that people who dislike the Tired of Hearing about thread should do what some cannot do in this thread and stay away, and let them have their hatred/discontent/scorn/whatever.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Mathias said:


> Now hold on, Wayne was only making an observation.




That is true. And he was stating an opinion. As apposed to those who want to worship a human being.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> That is true. And he was stating an opinion. As apposed to those who want to worship a human being.



So your husband saying something is just stating an opinion, but anyone who says something that's not in agreement with your husband is worshiping Michael Jackson?


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## Wild Zero (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Then I must be one of the few who views criminals as criminals and whatever they did before that was meaningless given what they did. It is not apples and oranges it's crime against adults vz crime against children. I view that latter very differently and with much more disgust and disdisdain.
> 
> This whole *Micheal the Saint* crap is just that.



He wrote a song titled "Smooth Criminal" but was never convicted. 

Unless you care to point us to some of his convictions, although rather than throwing 'em up on the board you might want to hold out for the big payoff from _The Enquirer_ for your exclusive access to top secret legal documents from an imaginary conviction.


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## Fish (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> That is true. And he was stating an opinion. As apposed to those who want to worship a human being.





Fish said:


> Nobody here is elevating Michael Jackson to sainthood except for those irate that we're not all verbally burning him in effigy. Believe it or not, not everyone is obliged to think the way you do.



And since you're so certain of his guilt, I must assume you have some as-yet unseen evidence that proves it. (seeing as how the existing accusations failed to materialize anything capable of convicting him on.) Where were you during the trial!?!


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Fish said:


> So where does you taking your petulant commentary about Michael Jackson to the BILLY MAYS thread measure on that courtesy scale of yours? Seriously?



About the same on your courtesy scale in this post I would say 




> Nobody here is elevating Michael Jackson to sainthood except for those irate that we're not all verbally burning him in effigy. Believe it or not, not everyone is obliged to think the way you do.



I think you should re-read this thread. A few people elevated him to god-like.




> I have no idea if he was really guilty of what he was alleged of doing, but I know he wasn't found guilty and in spite of the multiple accusations, nothing was ever proven. So I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt



And I choose to believe he was guilty as sin. And flaunted his sexual abuse of children in front of the whole world. It's amazing what you can get away with if you have money. 




> and instead mourn the passing of an entertainment icon whose music and videos gave me countless hours of joy and, on occasion, prompted me to think about unpleasant things in the world like hunger and the suffering of others.



Oh boy there is much I could say about that, but I wont.




> I don't worship him, but I'm sad that he's done creating entertainment and will now never get the opportunity to turn the circus his life became around.



He created that circus and apparenly liked it.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Fish said:


> And since you're so certain of his guilt, I must assume you have some as-yet unseen evidence that proves it. (seeing as how the existing accusations failed to materialize anything capable of convicting him on.) Where were you during the trial!?!



Sweetheart, I can't prove that my Uncle put his hands on me and molested me at 7 - but it happened.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Wild Zero said:


> He wrote a song titled "Smooth Criminal" but was never convicted.
> 
> Unless you care to point us to some of his convictions, although rather than throwing 'em up on the board you might want to hold out for the big payoff from _The Enquirer_ for your exclusive access to top secret legal documents from an imaginary conviction.



*** see what I posted to Fish about proof***


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> So your husband saying something is just stating an opinion, but anyone who says something that's not in agreement with your husband is worshiping Michael Jackson?



That is not what I said - but you know that.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> *** see what I posted to Fish about proof***





Really now Sandie, your uncle molesting you and you THINKING Michael Jackson molested some kids are two very different things.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> That is not what I said - but you know that.



Sure that's what you said. Its exactly the message you meant to come across


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## Mathias (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> That is not what I said - but you know that.



So what are you even doing in this thread? What you say isn't law.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> Really now Sandie, your uncle molesting you and you THINKING Michael Jackson molested some kids are two very different things.



Not to the kids he molested. It's the same thing. Nobody believed me as a child. No one believed me until some of my cousins said he did it to them too.

Money can make people go away (as I recall most of the accusers were paid off) but the damage done lasts forever for the kids. So, as one who knoes of which they speak, I believe the kids.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Mathias said:


> So what are you even doing in this thread? What you say isn't law.



What does that even mean? LOL


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> Sure that's what you said. Its exactly the message you meant to come across



No it's not and please refrain from telling me what I meant. There were people in this thread that used the word worship in reference to Michael (and not me or my darling husband). That's what I meant thankyouverymuch.


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## Fish (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> About the same on your courtesy scale in this post I would say



Well, it's a good thing that it was him and not ME that said:


Wayne_Zitkus said:


> That would be fine, Tina. Except we have a bunch of pro-Michael people going over there criticizing what they see and telling us what we should and should not post.
> 
> I've stopped posting on this thread, aswas requested. All I ask is those who are not tired of MJ please stop posting in the other thread. Courtesy works both ways, ya know.



I wasn't hypocritically crying for courtesy while going elsewhere to start shit, "Sweetheart".



Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Oh boy there is much I could say about that, but I wont.



Oh, don't be shy about your feeling NOW, "Sweetheart".


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

I have one last thing to say. You all choose to believe that MJ is innocent because nothing could be proven. Does that mean that any child who says - "He touched my in a bad way" is to be poopooed or ignored cause you know - it's a child? Or is that only reserved for the rich and the famous??

A fitting tribute to MJ's legacy:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0625091jackson1.html


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## Mathias (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> What does that even mean? LOL



It means that you're only seeing what you choose to and you're getting up in arms at the fact that some people are choosing to overlook the fact that he was charged- and later acquitted of child molestation charges. The people hear are remembering the good things about him but you and your husband are using as your own soapbox to say what a monster he was, despite not being convicted.


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## Wild Zero (Jun 28, 2009)

Enough projection, here's some music.

And some more music.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Not to the kids he molested. It's the same thing. Nobody believed me as a child. No one believed me until some of my cousins said he did it to them too.
> 
> Money can make people go away (as I recall most of the accusers were paid off) but the damage done lasts forever for the kids. So, as one who knoes of which they speak, I believe the kids.




Well, I was molested too and I for one also believe that he probably DID molest the kids, but a jury didn't find him guilty of it. 

However, my feelings or opinions of what he may or may not have done do not take away the mans talent or the good things that he did contribute to the world we live in, whether you like it or not.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> No it's not and please refrain from telling me what I meant. There were people in this thread that used the word worship in reference to Michael (and not me or my darling husband). That's what I meant thankyouverymuch.



That's right! I forgot! You and your darling husband are the only people allowed to have and express opinions! Let me know when you're taking your little red wagon and going home. I'm sure that times coming up pretty soon.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Fish said:


> Oh, don't be shy about your feeling NOW, "Sweetheart".




OK sweetheart is a term of endearment I use because I like your art. But you asked so here it is:

You said you were moved to *think* about homeless or starving people. But then what?? Did it motivate you to do something? If not it means nothing.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> That's right! I forgot! You and your darling husband are the only people allowed to have and express opinions! Let me know when you're taking your little red wagon and going home. I'm sure that times coming up pretty soon.




And I never said that either. But when people here can't figure out anything to say they throw that at me. I'm not going anywhere.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> Well, I was molested too and I for one also believe that he probably DID molest the kids, but a jury didn't find him guilty of it.
> 
> However, my feelings or opinions of what he may or may not have done do not take away the mans talent or the good things that he did contribute to the world we live in, whether you like it or not.



I don't like it or agree with it - but I'm not telling you to stop posting or to go away. You are entitled to your opinion as are my darling husband and myself.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Mathias said:


> It means that you're only seeing what you choose to and you're getting up in arms at the fact that some people are choosing to overlook the fact that he was charged- and later acquitted of child molestation charges. The people hear are remembering the good things about him but you and your husband are using as your own soapbox to say what a monster he was, despite not being convicted.




Where am I getting up in arms?? Seriously, I'm having a discussion you all seem to be the ones upset.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I don't like it or agree with it - but I'm not telling you to stop posting or to go away. You are entitled to your opinion as are my darling husband and myself.




No but what you and your husband HAVE done is to come into a thread and insult people because you don't agree with their opinion of a man who just died.

Having a different opinion and stating it is one thing, having a differing opinion and coming out and calling people names or saying they are wallowing is a totally different thing.


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## Isa (Jun 28, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> No but what you and your husband HAVE done is to come into a thread and insult people because you don't agree with their opinion of a man who just died.
> 
> Having a different opinion and stating it is one thing, having a differing opinion and coming out and calling people names or saying they are wallowing is a totally different thing.



And the congregation said Aaaaa-men!


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## Edens_heel (Jun 28, 2009)

It's amazing how many fewer posts you see here when just two people are added to one's ignore list


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## Edens_heel (Jun 28, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> No but what you and your husband HAVE done is to come into a thread and insult people because you don't agree with their opinion of a man who just died.
> 
> Having a different opinion and stating it is one thing, having a differing opinion and coming out and calling people names or saying they are wallowing is a totally different thing.



*claps loudly while munching on a bucket of salty, buttery, pop-corny goodness*


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> No but what you and your husband HAVE done is to come into a thread and insult people because you don't agree with their opinion of a man who just died.
> 
> Having a different opinion and stating it is one thing, having a differing opinion and coming out and calling people names or saying they are wallowing is a totally different thing.




I did nothing of the sort. I just stated my opinion.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Edens_heel said:


> It's amazing how many fewer posts you see here when just two people are added to one's ignore list



Isn't it though. Ignore is a wonderful thing.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I did nothing of the sort. I just stated my opinion.



Bullshit.

Just stating mine.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> Bullshit.
> 
> Just stating mine.





Well then I feel sorry for you that a civilized conversation is not possible without cussing.


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## Mathias (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Well then I feel sorry for you that a civilized conversation is not possible without cussing.



Tell that to Wayne.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Well then I feel sorry for you that a civilized conversation is not possible without cussing.





Oh I'm capable of having a civilized conversation. Don't you worry about that. I just prefer to have them with people who can be bothered to listen to my opinion, without putting it down.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Mathias said:


> Tell that to Wayne.




You tell him - he's my husband of 17 years I tend to side with him.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> Oh I'm capable of having a civilized conversation. Don't you worry about that. I just prefer to have them with people who can be bothered to listen to my opinion, without putting it down.




Ella, I have no idea why you keep saying I'm putting you down. I'm not and I am very sorry you or anyone feels that way. Honestly.


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## JoyJoy (Jun 28, 2009)

No one is worshiping MJ or making him a saint. They've expressed their admiration for his music and talent. People have asked for respect in this thread so that they could do so. 

Apparently you're not able to respect others in this thread, Sandie. You've found another cause to be argumentative about and jumped on the bandwagon, seemingly solely to be argumentative, as is your habit, and disrespecting many others in the process. Oh, but you can't confine your opinion to the other thread, can you? That would just be too difficult because you have a lion to slay in this one. 

I was molested too. My experience has nothing to do with people expressing their good thoughts on MJ, guilty or not. Stop making this personal for you, when it's not. (no, really, it's not - not this thread) Keep your beef with MJ where it belongs, in the negative thread. 

Show a little tact and back off.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

Nope. I have as much right to post here, as you do. I have done nothing to insult anyone but you all seem to want to insult me.

My experiences as a child affect my view of all things - even MJ. So while I know this is not about me, (really I do know that) my view is my view because of how I grew up and every experience I have had up to right now.  

And I am noit being argumentative but there are an awful lot of you who want to argue with me. 






JoyJoy said:


> No one is worshiping MJ or making him a saint. They've expressed their admiration for his music and talent. People have asked for respect in this thread so that they could do so.
> 
> Apparently you're not able to respect others in this thread, Sandie. You've found another cause to be argumentative about and jumped on the bandwagon, seemingly solely to be argumentative, as is your habit, and disrespecting many others in the process. Oh, but you can't confine your opinion to the other thread, can you? That would just be too difficult because you have a lion to slay in this one.
> 
> ...


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## JoyJoy (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Nope. I have as much right to post here, as you do. I have done nothing to insult anyone but you all seem to want to insult me.
> 
> My experiences as a child affect my view of all things - even MJ. So while I know this is not about me, (really I do know that) my view is ny vies because of how I grew up and every experience I have had up to right now.


Color me not surprised. I've never seen you back down when you have an axe to grind, regardless of who you're disrespecting. And YES, you are insulting and disrespecting people in this thread. By all means, carry on, though. Don't let anyone get in the way of you expressing your opinion. 

Although this thread is pointless by now since it's so horribly derailed. Maybe that was your whole agenda?


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## William (Jun 28, 2009)

Hi 

Don't forget that Michael was mentally and physically abused most of his childhood, if you can call that a childhood. Who knows what emotional age level he was operating on.

William





Sandie_Zitkus said:


> OK wait a minute. Ignore the crime (cause ya know he was never convicted - but he was a man in his 40's sleeping with children in his bed) but lets remember his Art!?
> 
> Does that go for OJ Simpson too?????


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## Blackjack (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I have done nothing to insult anyone


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 28, 2009)

JoyJoy said:


> Color me not surprised. I've never seen you back down when you have an axe to grind, regardless of who you're disrespecting. And YES, you are insulting and disrespecting people in this thread. By all means, carry on, though. Don't let anyone get in the way of you expressing your opinion.
> 
> Although this thread is pointless by now since it's so horribly derailed. Maybe that was your whole agenda?




No that's true, I don't back down ever. Why should I not express an opinion, if you are secure in yours what I think doesn't matter. And no I never have an agenda. I come here to interact with people I think of as family. But then again my definition of family is quite different from other peoples.

But Joy, see I still think I have some friends here, including you, but I see I am wrong. But that's OK because IRL I have people who love me and think I'm pretty special. 

But you know, you live you learn, and life goes on. But anyway we're putting a pool up and I will be in the pool most of the summer so I won't have time for all of you - big fish in a small pond bullies - whining about what a bitch I am. HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

It gets very tiresome. :doh:

But I'll be back - like a yeast infection. LMAO :bow:

(ya'll have no idea how funny you are making such big deals about a web board post):smitten::smitten:


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 28, 2009)

Really Sandie? Really?

You seem to have been just as involved in this thread as everyone else and now you are laughing at people for taking their opinions seriously? I just don't get you. I really don't.




Sandie_Zitkus said:


> No that's true, I don't back down ever. Why should I not express an opinion, if you are secure in yours what I think doesn't matter. And no I never have an agenda. I come here to interact with people I think of as family. But then again my definition of family is quite different from other peoples.
> 
> But Joy, see I still think I have some friends here, including you, but I see I am wrong. But that's OK because IRL I have people who love me and think I'm pretty special.
> 
> ...


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## JoyJoy (Jun 28, 2009)

My disagreeing with you, Sandie, and expressing what I think of your posting in this thread doesn't make me not your friend. I'm just highly annoyed that people find it so difficult to show a little respect when asked. And yes, it does seem that you're in this thread just to cause a ruckus, when it would have been just as easy for you to leave it alone and SHOW RESPECT FOR OTHERS. 

You're right, it does get very tiresome.


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## fffff (Jun 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> No that's true, I don't back down ever. Why should I not express an opinion, if you are secure in yours what I think doesn't matter. And no I never have an agenda. I come here to interact with people I think of as family. But then again my definition of family is quite different from other peoples.
> 
> But Joy, see I still think I have some friends here, including you, but I see I am wrong. But that's OK because IRL I have people who love me and think I'm pretty special.
> 
> ...



Well I think I echo the jealousy of this entire board because it's a proven fact that everyone who has participated in this thread besides you is going to spend their entire summer refreshing the "New Posts" button and crying over a lack of new reputation points. 


And I also wanted to  one last time before I go light the candles on my Michael Jackson shrine.


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## Wagimawr (Jun 28, 2009)

JoyJoy said:


> No one is worshiping MJ or making him a saint.


Er, actually, some people might be. They really need to cut that shit out.



Sandie_Zitkus said:


> (ya'll have no idea how funny you are making such big deals about a web board post)


A little snapshot of the top of the "Who Posted" list for this thread:



> Who Posted?
> Total Posts: 205
> 
> User Name Posts
> ...


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## Mathias (Jun 28, 2009)

Wagimawr said:


> Er, actually, some people might be. They really need to cut that shit out.
> 
> 
> A little snapshot of the top of the "Who Posted" list for this thread:


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## Edens_heel (Jun 28, 2009)

fffff said:


> Well I think I echo the jealousy of this entire board because it's a proven fact that everyone who has participated in this thread besides you is going to spend their entire summer refreshing the "New Posts" button and crying over a lack of new reputation points.



I approve of this post:happy:


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## Blackjack (Jun 28, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> I just don't get you. I really don't.



It's not really that difficult to figure out.

This explains it fairly clearly.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 28, 2009)

Blackjack said:


> It's not really that difficult to figure out.
> 
> This explains it fairly clearly.



Tried to rep you, gotta spread it around. I LOL'd though!


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