# BBWs outside the size acceptance community



## Cors (Dec 27, 2009)

There is an assumption that BBWs who are in the size acceptance community or just involved in some type of BBW/FA scene are generally more confident and are at least okay with the idea of FAs. However, their sisters outside of the SA community or BBW scene are often seen here as "unenlightened", buried in self-loathing and completely hostile to the idea of FAs. 

Unfortunately, this has been my experience so far. Almost all of the BBW friends I do have in person hate their bodies with a passion (some hide it better than others) and simply refuse to believe that anyone can possibly find them attractive. They think that the women on Dimensions are deluded, that the people admiring them are freaks and don't seem to care much about size acceptance at all. They don't even like the idea of joining a place like this or going to a bash because they feel that they have nothing in common with other fat people and don't want to date someone who actually appreciates their size. I have even seen lots of fat women hating on FAs in supposed size acceptance blogs and Facebook groups. Of course it could be because I live in a fat-unfriendly place where people are rather cold to each other but I have had this discussion with BBWs and FAs in other parts of the world and I am not alone. 

A number of FAs have mentioned that it is strange how they see so many seemingly confident, body-positive BBWs online but the fat girls they meet in person, or outside of a bash are mostly the opposite - hating their bodies, perpetually dieting and never really understanding that some people genuinely do prefer bigger women.I also remember reading posts about how the term BBW is used to described empowered, confident fat women and the others are just well, fat women. 

What do you think of this? What have your experiences with regard to fat women outside of the community been like?


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## LoveBHMS (Dec 27, 2009)

Well I'll answer this as an FFA regarding BHM, but I suspect you may find similar perspectives from male FAs.

Dimensions, bashes, other fat-positive online communities, and other size acceptance venues have a self selecting group of individuals. In other words, if you don't like being fat you probably won't want to go to a BBW dance and meet a guy who is turned on by fat women. If you want to lose weight, you might not want to be involved in size acceptance because you don't want it to apply to you. In other words, the ones who join the community are already either happy or accepting of their size, or they are trying to be. A lot of the new BHM that post on that board start out with "Wow...I never knew there were female fat admirers who would find my body hot..." and I see similar posts from new BBW and SSBBW.

So back to what I said about it being a self selecting group--the ones who dislike themselves or would think FA are freaks are not going to bashes to meet FA. The ones who are confident and like being fat and like their bodies are on here posting pictures of their bellies and getting excited over positive replies. I met my best BHM friend that way. A fat guy in the real world who hates being fat isn't going to show off his beer gut and think I'm going to appreciate it or get turned on by it.


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## That Guy You Met Once (Dec 27, 2009)

Cors said:


> They think that the women on Dimensions are deluded, that the people admiring them are freaks and don't seem to care much about size acceptance at all. They don't even like the idea of joining a place like this or going to a bash because they feel that they have nothing in common with other fat people and don't want to date someone who actually appreciates their size. I have even seen lots of fat women hating on FAs in supposed size acceptance blogs and Facebook groups.



Then who gives a shit?

If they insist on hating themselves (and us) and refusing to listen to logic, than there's no reason to care any more about their opinions than anyone else's, regardless of their weight. Treat them like any other fat hater.

...

Anyway, my experiences with fat people of both sexesl outside the SA community have run the spectrum. Most of the fat people I know act pretty much as you described. However, some were unsure about what to think, some had just "let themselves go" and given up caring about their weight, and a few (usually guys, interestingly) were OK with it.


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## Fascinita (Dec 27, 2009)

Actually, Cors, my experiences with fat women outside of Dimensions tend to go in the opposite direction as yours.

In high school, most of the fat girls I knew were happy and active. Many had boyfriends. Few--very, very few--had that "Who'd want to be with me?" attitude you mention. Most just wanted people to stop treating them differently and to stop having to account for their weight to everyone and their uncle.

In college, the women I met who had the most problems with self-image, who seemed to struggle the most with weight issues, were actually eating disordered women who were either very thin or just 5 to 20 lbs "overweight." Again, the fatter women I knew were mostly happy and active, with a very, very few exceptions who seemed battlescarred from all the pressure to be thinner.

Since college, I've known any number of fat women who are high achievers, happy and active, but who've complained to me that it really is a harder world on fatter women, romantically speaking. As one woman put it to me, "My vagina remains empty Saturday night after Saturday night." These are women who are graceful, have sense of humor, and who don't let "nothing" stop them from being themselves. Many single, high-achieving gals have told me that it's simply a matter of not enough potential partners--fat really is treated as a taboo, no matter how much we may wish that would go away. On the other hand, most of these women will readily admit that they are very picky, as well. And then there are the scores of fat women happily partnered and in marriages.

On the whole, more fat women I've known are/were comfortable with their bodies and their romantic/erotic selves than not--by FAR many more than not. The myth of the self-hating fat woman... I often wonder why it is expressed with such frequency at Dimensions. In my experience, self-hating fat women are a tiny segment of the fat woman population. It makes me wonder whether what happens is not that people expect fat women to behave superhumanly, to not have any of the problems that regular people clearly have in spades. Look around at the thinner people on this site. It's clear that many are not especially comfortable with _them_selves.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Dec 27, 2009)

I suspect that both Cors and Fascinita are right. BBW's outside the movement are too numerous to defy characterization: how you perceive them will depend a lot on who you meet and how strong an impression each individual makes. Having said that, my own impressions -- the result of living in various places all over the US map -- is that there is a slightly more relaxed attitude about fat in small towns and rural areas than in big cities (perhaps because everyone knows everyone else and sees them as individuals rather than types), in the South than in the North, among Hispanics, Native Americans, and African-Americans than among WASPs. And like all other generalizations, this has zero predictive value.


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## superodalisque (Dec 27, 2009)

into this you might want to add a racial equation. i find a lot more confident ssbbws IRL who are black. they don't like community FAs so well either. not because they don't like thier fat bodies but because of the assumption that most other people would not like thier fat bodies. i think i got that viewpoint from women like that. sometimes i feel highly insulted when FAs act as though no men are attracted to me except them. but thats how i was socialized. the men in my community always treated big women like they were pretty just like anyone else. i never even knew about women being called names for being fat unless i was outside of the black community when i was a girl. and thats still pretty much true for me over all. 

i think the racial difference between how women feel about thier weight in terms of race is lessening unfortunately but growing up i never felt abnormal because of the confident big black women in my community. they loved thier looks. they definitely did not diet. they had plenty of relationships and marriages. they were often the sexiest, most dynamic and most powerful women in the black community--and they would tell you so. that is changing a little but there are still a whole lots of ssbbbws who are like that here in the south. we are always wondering what the big deal is. its felt here that if one man doesn't like fat women there are plenty of others who will. so no harm no foul.

it could just be a southern thing. my white sisters down here don't seem to have as much of a problem either. but maybe thats because our communities were so close anyway (contrary to popular belief) and we've really influenced each other over the years. so i also see plenty of ssbbws in the atlanta burbs both black and white who are marriedor date a lot, have great careers, have famlies and eat as they like. they aren't spending time concentrating on or bemoaning thier weight very much. a lot of them are in much better health than a lot of people in the community as well. i think thats mainly because they go out more and are more physically active so they are stronger. no one here looks at you so hard if your fat and you're going somewhere or doing something. accommodations are easier down here too. i can't tell you the last time i couldn't "fit " somewhere. when i went to the hospital down here there wasn't any big drama over finding a gown to fit me or a bed i could fit in etc...so most of the ssbbws here don't face so many emotional and logistical hurdles so they are mainly concentrating on living. and even if you do face an obstacle people are very friendly helpful and not very likely to try to embarrass you. you can always tell when someone is from another region because often they are the ones who don't hesitate in breeching fat manners but they are generally quickly cued in. when we are together and talk no one cares that much about weight. i have always seen many more body issues in the size community than i have IRL. but i guess that would only make sense since its one place people can come to when they need the support.


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## ChubbyPuppy (Dec 27, 2009)

I have observed this as well. 

A bit of introduction/explanation:
I am involved in the furry fandom. Furries represent themselves online with drawn images of cartoon animals. Some draw themselves as close to their actual body shape as possible, albeit with tails and whiskers, while some misrepresent their actual appearance, perhaps for the sake of attracting attention for their "perfect" fake bodies. I think it's all very silly, and as an artist I try to be as true to life as one can when drawing a cartoon animal.

Among furry BBWs, and to a lesser extent BHMs, I've noticed a depressing tendency to hide behind skinny personas online. Even ladies who were dating FAs, and therefore should be well aware of fat acceptance are guilty of this, although in the time I spent with them in real life they didn't dwell on wanting to lose weight. 

On the other hand, I do know several BBWs who are not involved in the fat acceptance movement who simply shrug off negative comments about their bodies. One of my best friends is a fellow BBW and in all the years I've known her has never once expressed anything but love for her pudge.

I think what it comes down to is a difference in attitudes. Some people just don't care what society's current silly standards are and are happy to do what they enjoy.

Oh, and I'm going to second Fascinita's observations that people who are slightly overweight or even "normal" weight seem to be more concerned with dieting than us big girls.


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## speakeasy (Dec 27, 2009)

Seventy-Seven said:


> If they insist on hating themselves (and us) and refusing to listen to logic, than there's no reason to care any more about their opinions than anyone else's, regardless of their weight. Treat them like any other fat hater.



I can't speak for anyone, but I would guess there are a lot of fat women who want to lose weight but don't necessarily hate themselves or their bodies. Lots of people have issues with their physiques, but it doesn't always equate to self-loathing. 

I can also see how fat women could be a little weirded out by the idea of an FA. This is something I worry about a lot when talking to big women outside this community. It's easy for me to tell my buddies that I'm into big women, but it's a lot harder for me to tell a big woman that I'm into big women, ironically.


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## Jon Blaze (Dec 28, 2009)

I would say it varies. I've had experiences with very confident bigger women that knew nothing of community or even the idea of someone being attracted to them because of their figure. Occasionally I would say those that may not have seen their bodies as desirable just didn't see their body as a whole as something attractive. They would still be confident in their skin, and other traits, but they would be selective about what may make them attractive (I.e. Face, bottom, boobs, etc...), which I'm personally ok with.

I've had my share of those that weren't confident, hated themselves, and/or had various reasons to not love themselves. The only thing that would throw people off is the fact that I'm holistic with my beauty curve. So like the former they would think their boobs are something to be admired, but liking their belly for example was seen as "Odd." 

Online I've heard a lot of women rail FAs for existing, but in person I really haven't had too much flack from either gender.

My ex was the perfect example of the first statement. She loves herself. She feels that she is attractive, and has a lot of things going for her. The first time we cuddled she questioned me because I was rubbing everything I could get my hands on. lol It was something she wasn't used to, so I had to explain things. She learned to like it though.


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## katherine22 (Dec 28, 2009)

On the whole, more fat women I've known are/were comfortable with their bodies and their romantic/erotic selves than not--by FAR many more than not. The myth of the self-hating fat woman... I often wonder why it is expressed with such frequency at Dimensions. In my experience, self-hating fat women are a tiny segment of the fat woman population. It makes me wonder whether what happens is not that people expect fat women to behave superhumanly, to not have any of the problems that regular people clearly have in spades. Look around at the thinner people on this site. It's clear that many are not especially comfortable with _them_selves.[/quote]
 

The women who post on Dimensions are a small minority of fat women. There are plenty of fat women who feel no desire for support offered by a size acceptance community since they believe that their identity and self-worth transcends their fatness. Although some women may be very fat, they do not necessarily define themselves as a fat person since they may have other achievements, attributes and experiences that contribute more to their self-definition. There are men who are attracted to intelligent interesting women and these men do not give a shit if the woman is fat or not. There are men who can love a fat woman and do not need to feel supported by a size acceptance community.


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## superodalisque (Dec 28, 2009)

i couldn't rep you again



Fascinita said:


> Actually, Cors, my experiences with fat women outside of Dimensions tend to go in the opposite direction as yours.
> 
> In high school, most of the fat girls I knew were happy and active. Many had boyfriends. Few--very, very few--had that "Who'd want to be with me?" attitude you mention. Most just wanted people to stop treating them differently and to stop having to account for their weight to everyone and their uncle.
> 
> ...


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## Redhotphatgirl (Dec 28, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> Actually, Cors, my experiences with fat women outside of Dimensions tend to go in the opposite direction as yours.
> 
> In high school, most of the fat girls I knew were happy and active. Many had boyfriends. Few--very, very few--had that "Who'd want to be with me?" attitude you mention. Most just wanted people to stop treating them differently and to stop having to account for their weight to everyone and their uncle.
> 
> ...


I agree with this and I have to add something. I think some of the problem is that fas are tired of being bashed and they are giving up on women. But that is not the way to go I think you just have to be happy being you fat, skinny, married, single and make the best out of what you got and who you are. C.


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## LovelyLiz (Dec 28, 2009)

speakeasy said:


> I can also see how fat women could be a little weirded out by the idea of an FA. This is something I worry about a lot when talking to big women outside this community. It's easy for me to tell my buddies that I'm into big women, but it's a lot harder for me to tell a big woman that I'm into big women, ironically.



I think part of this has to do with something I've heard said quite a bit in these parts -- which is that sometimes women can feel weirded out when a guy gives all the attention to her body. Instead of someone saying "Hey, I'm into big women", I'd much rather hear someone say, "Hey, I'm into you." 

I agree with what some of the others have said, that it does seem that outside the SA community fat women can be engaged on more levels, and are not quite made to feel as much like they are merely being appreciated for their fatness. Though, I have also met some really great FAs who appreciate women for all they bring to the table, and don't just focus on their fat bodies. I guess it's not specifically an FA or SA thing.


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## TraciJo67 (Dec 28, 2009)

Cors, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. I think there may be some truth to what you are saying, but I don't think that it's the overriding truth. Speaking for myself only -- and I've seen that many other BBW's have said the same thing here at Dims -- I'm not so sure that if I were single I'd be pursuing an FA. This has NOTHING to do with how I see myself or my body image. I left behind most of that baggage in my 30's. How I see myself today is ... perfectly flawed  I wouldn't waste my precious time with a man who didn't absolutely cherish and value me for who and what I am and who didn't accept me just as I am. If that meant I'd be single forever ... so be it. I'm not at all uncomfortable in my own company. I have some concerns about SOME FA behaviors that I see here: The tendency to worship and objectify the fat, with or without inclusion of the person wearing it. The need for bigger, fatter, more more more. That wouldn't feel at all comfortable to me. And again, that says nothing about ME and everything about the type of man that I'd want to be with, if I were single. My body is mine, and it is tied in with my health and well-being, and I am the sole owner/occupant. I would need to be with a man who understood that, respected it, and would love ME no matter what my size happens to be. I am not fooled by the hyperbole we sometimes hear at Dims, about how people can't get beyond preferences. Of course there ARE people like that, and so long as they are honest with their partners -- and the partner accepts this particular limitation -- so be it. I would not accept it. I *know* that there are men out there who do not live by absolutes. I am married to one.


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## superodalisque (Dec 28, 2009)

Redhotphatgirl said:


> I agree with this and I have to add something. I think some of the problem is that fas are tired of being bashed and they are giving up on women. But that is not the way to go I think you just have to be happy being you fat, skinny, married, single and make the best out of what you got and who you are. C.



hehe. they can't give up on women forever. i think its true that expectations for FAs are changing as SA takes a real hold. in the past itwas enough that an FA just wanted someone fat. thats not true anymore. some are going to have to review previously held ideas and retrench. i don't know but i think bashing is not quite the word i might use. i think in the long run FAs will start to appreciate a BBW who states thier true feelings out in the open instead of getting a nasty surprise later on. maybe BBWs are less afraid of being alone now than they used to be. so they don't feel like they have to keep quiet and pretend as much?


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## katherine22 (Dec 28, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> hehe. they can't give up on women forever. i think its true that expectations for FAs are changing as SA takes a real hold. in the past itwas enough that an FA just wanted someone fat. thats not true anymore. some are going to have to review previously held ideas and retrench. i don't know but i think bashing is not quite the word i might use. i think in the long run FAs will start to appreciate a BBW who states thier true feelings out in the open instead of getting a nasty surprise later on. maybe BBWs are less afraid of being alone now than they used to be. so they don't feel like they have to keep quiet and pretend as much?



You have hit the nail on the head. Not only are fat women less afraid of being alone a lot of other women are less afraid of being alone as well.


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## Cors (Dec 28, 2009)

You are right about the self-selection, LBHMs. 

I have always thought that fat women (and men, though guys generally seem to care a lot less) outside of the community probably aren't all that different. The stereotype about the self-hating fat woman around here is pretty depressing, even more so because it has been my experience and other FAs have told me that they identify with it too. I am glad to hear about experiences like yours, Fascinita and SuperO. 

Good points about gender, geography and race affecting our experiences. I do know many fat men who couldn't care less about their own size or size acceptance. I know that some cities in the US are more accepting than others, and the US is generally regarded as more fat-friendly than other parts of the world. I grew up in Asia where most people have an extremely distorted perception of what fat is, and now live in London, UK where fat hate is just about everywhere. The BBWs I know in person are White or Asian and fat generally isn't as well tolerated in those communities. Also, most of them are in their early twenties like me which might further explain why our experiences are so different, though I must also point out that none of my "normal" sized friends are really happy with their bodies either. They do whine about diets, tucking this in and enlarging that, but they are far less likely to question the sanity of people who are actually physically attracted to them and generally seem a lot less depressed/angry or blame just about _everything_ on their size. I hope I am not trivialising what a fat person has to face, but I think most of you know the kind of defeatist attitude I am referring to. Again, it could just be the people I know. 

The idea of a confident, happy fat woman is something I have only encountered online. When I first found this place years ago, I was floored and did wonder if people were just showing one side of themselves online or are just saying things they think FAs like to hear. I can only speak for myself, but I honestly don't think that I have ridiculous expectations. I expect them to behave like any other woman who is constantly bombarded by unrealistic and unattainable beauty ideals and in fact give BBWs more leeway because I can in my own way empathise with how it is to be constantly told that one is too fat and hence ugly, worthless and what-have-yous.

As a woman, I hate being objectified myself and can understand why some fat women are weirded out by someone makes them feel like they are only being appreciated for their fatness. It is just that many women I know want to be loved in spite of their size, instead of allowing their partners to appreciate all of them. I know I am not the only one who has gotten the whole "you can touch my boobs but stay the hell away from my fat tummy and thunder thighs" thing, even when I don't focus on those parts. 

(Disclaimer: There are quite a few generalizations in my post, but I don't want to derail the topic too much.)


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## bigjayne66 (Dec 28, 2009)

I have no problem with FAs as long as they are respectful and do not over objectify me ,however being seen as wonderful to look at and even better to feel floats my boat,as long as the guy isn't in my face about it 24/7.
Where I live there are no obvious Fas,only stupid teens who jeer 'it's the incredible bulk' or some other juvenile spoutings,hence I remain out of sight.


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## superodalisque (Dec 28, 2009)

it could be that the real difference may be the context of BBWs and BHMs being seen in terms of a sexual scene rather than as they are in real life. i have to tell ya when someone one is putting thier sex in my face in a bit of an unsolicited and blunt way i might seem shy and and as though i had bad body self esteem too. but it might just be that the person is a little too rough and direct for my tastes. i often wonder how FA/FFA would feel if someone came up to them making a big issue about how they liked thier body before they had any idea who they were. sometimes thats really just too much. i have a lot of guys coming up to me explaining why they are so attracted to fat women. i know a lot of FA/FFAs don't feel too comfortable when a BBW or BHM tries to pretty much drag them off just because they know they are into fat. fat people need more than someone to just be sexualy attracted to us to. sometimes we like it if people just say hi


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## JMNYC (Dec 28, 2009)

You have to back up a bit to get the whole picture.

Humanity doesn't really spend a whole lot of time loving and appreciating itself. 

People often talk about man's inhumanity to man, but rarely do you hear discussed our tribe's basic loathing of itself.

One of the world's most popular religions teaches you that you are born a sinner. You're up against centuries of state-sanctioned repression, and church-sanctioned self-loathing.

Try a few hundred thousand messages anywhere in public you go that say "EAT!" accompanied by "BANISH BELLY FLAB IN 10 DAYS!" for a decade or two or three and see how much you love your belly or your chubby arms or your big butt.

That belly and chubby arms and big butt on that perfect body, that body that's descended from the strongest of the strong---our ancestors, who survived wars, plagues, famine, predators, natural disasters, cholera, bubonic plague, influenza, polio, syphillis and the list goes on.

What magnificent creatures we are, what survivors. Almost nobody lives that way, though. Most don't wake up every day and say, "Wow, I'm still here. Far out. Let's have fun."

Give it time. Give it a generation or two. Keep working on your part. Lead by example. Speak it, write it, live it, and let the mob do as it wishes---because it will. 

"I once was lost, but now I'm found."

I am occasionally surprised when I meet big women who aren't aware of the utter worship some male members of society have for their big bodies, especially with the explosion of the net. But what they think of me isn't any of my business, and I find I care less and less. In my experience, the only way a true transformation comes about in any human being is by hitting an absolute rock-bottom.

"I cannot hate myself any longer. I can't go on this way. From today on, I'm going to try and love myself, or at least not loathe myself." Works great! But first you gotta get to the bottom and discard self-loathing like yesterday's toilet flush. 

I flush on a daily basis!


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## superodalisque (Dec 28, 2009)

bigjayne66 said:


> I have no problem with FAs as long as they are respectful and do not over objectify me ,however being seen as wonderful to look at and even better to feel floats my boat,as long as the guy isn't in my face about it 24/7.
> Where I live there are no obvious Fas,only stupid teens who jeer 'it's the incredible bulk' or some other juvenile spoutings,hence I remain out of sight.



hehe i would wear incredible bulk on a tee shirt i haven't heard that one before .


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## olwen (Dec 28, 2009)

Cors said:


> There is an assumption that BBWs who are in the size acceptance community or just involved in some type of BBW/FA scene are generally more confident and are at least okay with the idea of FAs. However, their sisters outside of the SA community or BBW scene are often seen here as "unenlightened", buried in self-loathing and completely hostile to the idea of FAs.
> 
> Unfortunately, this has been my experience so far. Almost all of the BBW friends I do have in person hate their bodies with a passion (some hide it better than others) and simply refuse to believe that anyone can possibly find them attractive. They think that the women on Dimensions are deluded, that the people admiring them are freaks and don't seem to care much about size acceptance at all. They don't even like the idea of joining a place like this or going to a bash because they feel that they have nothing in common with other fat people and don't want to date someone who actually appreciates their size. I have even seen lots of fat women hating on FAs in supposed size acceptance blogs and Facebook groups. Of course it could be because I live in a fat-unfriendly place where people are rather cold to each other but I have had this discussion with BBWs and FAs in other parts of the world and I am not alone.
> 
> ...



You know, I have 4 other fat female friends that I grew up with. None of them have ever been interested in getting involved in SA. They all just had this "meh" attitude. They only thing they were willing to do is go to Goddess parties with me, but that wore out rather quickly since we kept running into men who just weren't our types, and such, so we all stopped going to those. 

Now that three of them have had lap band surgery and are now well below 400lbs I'm coming to find out how much they didn't like being fat and I wasn't prepared for that level of self fat-hatred from people I've known for over 10 years who in that time never expressed those feelings to me. Could be because I probably would have refused to talk about stuff like that and it makes me feel like the odd man out. Out of the five of us only one of us actually lacks confidence, but I think she'd still be that way if she were thin. It's just part of her personality. She doesn't however spend all her time talking about how much she hates X body part either, but again I wouldn't participate in that kind of conversation anyway, so if she does talk like that it's not around me.

The only fat women I've met in real life who don't completely hate their bodies are the women I've met inside SA.


ETA: Whether or not they all would or wouldn't date FAs, I'm not sure of. I think two would and two wouldn't. Tho I'm sure that they would care more about just meeting someone who liked them and their bodies and I think everyone wants that.


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## LoveBHMS (Dec 28, 2009)

> As a woman, I hate being objectified myself and can understand why some fat women are weirded out by someone makes them feel like they are only being appreciated for their fatness. It is just that many women I know want to be loved in spite of their size, instead of allowing their partners to appreciate all of them. I know I am not the only one who has gotten the whole "you can touch my boobs but stay the hell away from my fat tummy and thunder thighs" thing, even when I don't focus on those parts.



This particular issue has bothered me for a long time, and i truly don't think i have the proper way to articulate it, but i'm going to try.

The notion of "objectification" is complicated. I think once human sexuality, which is a basic and innate drive gets tied up with objectification, it takes on a negative light. The truth is, humans are sexual beings and most of us has some sort of sexuality. Humans pursue sexual gratification in a variety of ways ranging from masturbation and fantasy, to sexual activity within a monogamous romantic relationship to using prostitutes and one night stands. 

To pursue sexual gratification is inherently natural and it's a drive more than a conscious choice. Behaviour itself can be regulated but not ones sexuality. If you're an FA, the grabbing of fat body parts or even focus on body size should be seen as sexual expression, rather than being inherently wrong or harmful to another person. Sexuality can, and often is expressed and satisfied seperately from emotional connection with others. For the same reason it's possible to have a mental connection with another person absent of sexuality, it's possible to feel a drive to gain sexual gratification absent an interest in the mental/emotional/romantic connection.


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## Wagimawr (Dec 28, 2009)

LoveBHMS said:


> To pursue sexual gratification is inherently natural and it's a drive more than a conscious choice. Behaviour itself can be regulated but not ones sexuality. If you're an FA, the grabbing of fat body parts or even focus on body size should be seen as sexual expression, rather than being inherently wrong or harmful to another person. Sexuality can, and often is expressed and satisfied seperately from emotional connection with others. For the same reason it's possible to have a mental connection with another person absent of sexuality, it's possible to feel a drive to gain sexual gratification absent an interest in the mental/emotional/romantic connection.


So those who choose not to be objectified; what do they do, exactly? Just deal with it because it's natural and keep having to wade through the horndogs to find somebody who actually cares about more than their body?

I see your point and I think you're right on, but what does that mean in the context of people who are saying "I am MORE than the "sexy" parts of my body"? That idea is certainly not only prevalent in the SA/FA community.


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## TraciJo67 (Dec 28, 2009)

Wagimawr said:


> So those who choose not to be objectified; what do they do, exactly? Just deal with it because it's natural and keep having to wade through the horndogs to find somebody who actually cares about more than their body?
> 
> I see your point and I think you're right on, but what does that mean in the context of people who are saying "I am MORE than the "sexy" parts of my body"? That idea is certainly not only prevalent in the SA/FA community.




More than that .... I think that anyone who is looking for more than just a good time (and even those who are) are probably appalled at the notion that they should just grin and bear objectification in the name of someone else's sexuality. Worshipping at the altar of someone's body is a good thing (nay, a GREAT thing ), so long as the person attached to the parts is acknowledged in there somewhere. That is why I don't like absolutes. I can't be certain that I'm part of that equation if my lover is overly focused on one aspect of me.


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## Wagimawr (Dec 28, 2009)

Quite frankly, too, if I'm going to objectify somebody, I want them to be INTO it. Not just doing it because they think they have to in order to keep me around. Granted, I don't lose any sleep over not being able to do that because I don't think such a woman exists.


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## LoveBHMS (Dec 28, 2009)

Wagimawr said:


> So those who choose not to be objectified; what do they do, exactly? Just deal with it because it's natural and keep having to wade through the horndogs to find somebody who actually cares about more than their body?
> 
> I see your point and I think you're right on, but what does that mean in the context of people who are saying "I am MORE than the "sexy" parts of my body"? That idea is certainly not only prevalent in the SA/FA community.



I guess what i'm thinking is more along the lines of trying to untie the concepts of sexuality and objectifcation. We touch on this a lot within the fetish community, that sexual expression is a two way street. Fat sexuality is about the fat person as much as it's about the FA. The fat person's sexuality is there too.

On the same note, let's say you're looking at a traditional heterosexual mating model where a female searches for a male who can provide for her and the offspring. That on some level is an innate biological drive. But then you have those male would-be providers complaining that the females are superficial or "only care about money". Really what is happening in that coupling is partly romantic but partly practical and the practicality is part of a biological imperative. So if searching for a mate to provide for you and offspring is superficial or objectifying, it's still somewhat normal. If seeking out a partner who provides sexual gratification is superficial or objectifying, it's still normal.


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## speakeasy (Dec 28, 2009)

Cors said:


> As a woman, I hate being objectified myself and can understand why some fat women are weirded out by someone makes them feel like they are only being appreciated for their fatness. It is just that many women I know want to be loved in spite of their size, instead of allowing their partners to appreciate all of them. I know I am not the only one who has gotten the whole "you can touch my boobs but stay the hell away from my fat tummy and thunder thighs" thing, even when I don't focus on those parts.



I totally know what you're talking about, Cors. And I completely agree with you, McBeth, that it's much better to hear someone say "I'm into you" than it is to hear someone say "I'm into your type." But I think I worry that when I say "I'm into you," the woman actually hears "I'm into you in spite of the fact that you're fat." I can tell her she's beautiful and try to assuage her trepidations about being touched, but if I'm not telling her that fat women are very much "my type," am I sort of lying by omission?

I guess this ties into the topics of objectification and sexual satisfaction and all that. The goal is to explain that you want all of someone.


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## bigjayne66 (Dec 28, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> hehe i would wear incredible bulk on a tee shirt i haven't heard that one before .



No way I could do that round here,I would be ridiculed even more,and I am very sensitive to these comments,if one said 'now there's one hell of a sexy big babe' my head might swell a bit instead .


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## LovelyLiz (Dec 28, 2009)

speakeasy said:


> I totally know what you're talking about, Cors. And I completely agree with you, McBeth, that it's much better to hear someone say "I'm into you" than it is to hear someone say "I'm into your type." But I think I worry that when I say "I'm into you," the woman actually hears "I'm into you in spite of the fact that you're fat." I can tell her she's beautiful and try to assuage her trepidations about being touched, but if I'm not telling her that fat women are very much "my type," am I sort of lying by omission?
> 
> I guess this ties into the topics of objectification and sexual satisfaction and all that. The goal is to explain that you want all of someone.



When someone says "I'm into you" to me, I don't at all hear that they're into me in spite of anything, be it my size or some aspect of my personality or anything. I mean, I don't expect them to like every tiny detail and part of me, as I have flaws as well as the next person, but if they say they're into me, I trust that they mean it. Whether they are into me physically, I generally gauge by how they interact with me physically; and if a guy says he's into me, or likes me, or whatever, then I assume he's into my physical appearance as well. 

Why does it feel like a lie just because you don't say that you usually go for fat women? To me, if the guy is truly into me, I don't feel like there's any kind of lie no matter whether I do or don't fit his traditional type. If he wants to mention that he tends to prefer bigger women that's fine, but I don't feel like it's a lie if he was not to say that.


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## speakeasy (Dec 28, 2009)

mcbeth said:


> When someone says "I'm into you" to me, I don't at all hear that they're into me in spite of anything, be it my size or some aspect of my personality or anything. I mean, I don't expect them to like every tiny detail and part of me, as I have flaws as well as the next person, but if they say they're into me, I trust that they mean it. Whether they are into me physically, I generally gauge by how they interact with me physically; and if a guy says he's into me, or likes me, or whatever, then I assume he's into my physical appearance as well.
> 
> Why does it feel like a lie just because you don't say that you usually go for fat women? To me, if the guy is truly into me, I don't feel like there's any kind of lie no matter whether I do or don't fit his traditional type. If he wants to mention that he tends to prefer bigger women that's fine, but I don't feel like it's a lie if he was not to say that.



Thanks, that's really helpful.
Sorry if I kinda derailed this thread, y'all. :happy:


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## Fascinita (Dec 28, 2009)

Wagimawr said:


> Quite frankly, too, if I'm going to objectify somebody, I want them to be INTO it. Not just doing it because they think they have to in order to keep me around. Granted, I don't lose any sleep over not being able to do that because I don't think such a woman exists.



It requires some sensitivity and skill, not being a lunkhead. We've all had those lousy lovers whose numbers we want to lose sooner than you can say "quick." But the average person is in it for the mutual experiences. As you point out, Waggy, most people want the other to be "into it," just as most people will actually go to the trouble of making that happen. It's those clumsy peeps who plow forward at all costs--whether only thinking of themselves because the world somehow "owes" them sexy pleasures, or if not from entitlement from sheer brute malignancy--that are "the problem." 

It's not "objectifying" if both people are present and consensual and there is mutual giving and taking, and no one is there to squeeze the other for all they're worth without regard to the other's needs, etc.

When I was in high school, people who behaved that way were called "users." They were reviled and maligned and avoided, and usually sooner rather than later, we'd hear of the "user" getting her comeuppance in the form of some sad sack karmic irony--like they were kicked out of their job at McDonald's because they'd messed with the manager's favorite girl-cousin, or they got into a tragic motorcycle accident because they were as reckless with themselves as they were with others. (Yes, it really is a _Pretty In Pink_ world.) Unfortunately, the guy who got sacked at McDonald's usually just moved on to using some other girl for money; and the guy in the motorcycle accident usually walked away with a totaled bike and no set of wheels, having mowed down some old lady crossing the street but getting off with only a few scratches himself. 

Which is all to say, stay away from lousy, ungenerous lovers.


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## fatgirlflyin (Dec 30, 2009)

LoveBHMS said:


> If you're an FA, the grabbing of fat body parts or even focus on body size should be seen as sexual expression, rather than being inherently wrong or harmful to another person.




within the confines of a relationship sure. With any random fat stranger who happens to cross their path? Not so much...


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## Hathor (Dec 30, 2009)

Cors said:


> What do you think of this? What have your experiences with regard to fat women outside of the community been like?



I'm still fairly new to the community and I find it empowering. To be fat and accepting of yourself and have others find you beautiful is so amazing [and I love it]. I'm not a full time poster, but whenever I feel down and start thinking negative thoughts about myself, I come here and I instantly feel better. 

My roommate is fat (smaller than me though) and seems to lose herself in sexual activities with random men to feel worth. It might be a sex addiction, it might be a way of trying to make herself feel beautiful and wanted. I don't know, but every time we talk about men who love big women, she whispers and is like, "There are men who do like bigger girls and curves" and the whole time I feel like I'm flapping my arms going "DUH!!!!!" 

I told her about Dims and gave her the link because she's one of those fat girls who thinks it's nearly impossible for a guy to like bigger women. 

Of the fat women I have met either by working with them or having a quick conversation in a store, they are either self loathing, indifferent, or love having curves. It's not really one or the other.


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## fatgirlflyin (Dec 30, 2009)

Hathor said:


> It might be a sex addiction, it might be a way of trying to make herself feel beautiful and wanted.



Or just maybe she really enjoys sex. There are those of us out there...


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## Hathor (Dec 31, 2009)

fatgirlflyin said:


> Or just maybe she really enjoys sex. There are those of us out there...



I just can't wrap my head around that type of want... :blush:


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## TallFatSue (Jan 2, 2010)

katherine22 said:


> The women who post on Dimensions are a small minority of fat women. There are plenty of fat women who feel no desire for support offered by a size acceptance community since they believe that their identity and self-worth transcends their fatness. Although some women may be very fat, they do not necessarily define themselves as a fat person since they may have other achievements, attributes and experiences that contribute more to their self-definition. There are men who are attracted to intelligent interesting women and these men do not give a shit if the woman is fat or not. There are men who can love a fat woman and do not need to feel supported by a size acceptance community.



Exactly. I'm seeing more of this because I seem to be gradually drifting out of Dimensions and out of organized fat acceptance. For the past year or so, my husband & I have been reconnecting with old friends who have much more free time now that their grown-up children are either moving out or going to university. Several women are BBW or SSBBW who run the whole gamut from annoyance to tolerance to acceptance about their weights, but none seem to hate being as fat as they are. Their fat is just kinda there, they deal with it, and life goes on because they define themselves by their personalities and achievements. They all seem pretty happy with their marriages and their lots in life, although that seems true of all of my friends no matter what their sizes. Maybe that's simply the sort of people I naturally hang out with. I've introduced some of them to Dimensions, but none are very interested.

Art & I spent this week with one of those couples at their condo in Bonita Springs, Florida. Mrs. O is almost as fat as I am and seems very comfortable in her own skin, and Mr. O is an FA who has his priorities right because he loves her first, her mind second and her fat third. They have absolutely no interest in the size acceptance community because they're doing fine without it. We do find it interesting that many of his business associates have dumped their first wives for young thin trophy wives. They make her feel conspicuous at social events but that doesn't particularly bother her. In fact they seem to enjoy bucking the trend. We saw that for ourselves a few times last year when we went along with them. Interesting world. 

So methinx fat acceptance is what you make of it. If it helps to be part of a community, great. If fat acceptance comes purely from within, that's great too. Whatever works.


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## TallFatSue (Jan 12, 2010)

Here's something I found while looking for info about work-related statistics. It's fabulous to see comments like this in mainstream publications. The "obese woman in my early 50's" sounds like a very kindred soul, indirectly but proudly promoting fat acceptance by setting positive examples. Cool! :bow:

_Edmonton Journal_, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
*Obesity linked to work absence: StatsCan*
By soundoff Fri, Feb 20 2009
Overweight Canadians are more likely to miss work or be unproductive at the office, according to Statistics Canada.
http://communities.canada.com/edmontonjournal/blogs/soundoff/archive/2009/02/20/271556.aspx

*Your Comments

Julie* February 20, 2009 10:32 PM
"the people who get paid to analyze this data can be biased/prejudice, and personally i take great offence at the fact as a worker i am there to pay the tax man. we live in a high stress community, high expectations etc, quite honestly if i want to be healthy i know how to go about it and i don't need big brother telling me.. next they'll be taxing me by the pound"

*Fatty* February 20, 2009 5:30 PM
"I must fall into an ignored or overlooked category for the statistics. I am an obese woman in my early 50's who is a high wage earner (I earn approximately 30% more than the national average for my position) I have not missed a day's work in over 2 years . I am never late for work, I produce a high volume of quality work and my boss knows I'm no slacker and I get all the support I need from my co-workers. I work in a high stress business, but I am not stressed out. I'm certain I'm not the only one out there. I imagine there are many of us who would show a significant discrepancy in the findings. It would be interesting to know the precise parameters used for this study."


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