# Sensationalism at it's worst yet again; "Family Too Fat To Work"



## Upstate New York Foodee (Mar 21, 2009)

*sigh*

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...ay-22000-worth-of-benefits-is-not-enough.html

The tone of it angered me too much for me to make a proper comment right now.


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## Tooz (Mar 21, 2009)

It makes no sense. How are any of them too fat to work? Someone with epilepsy I can understand, but that's not a weight thing.

The article confused me.


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## indy500tchr (Mar 21, 2009)

uhhhh....yeah.....I don't know the converstion from pounds to stones but I prolly weigh twice as much as one of the girls and I run after kids all day. This is bullshit and THEY are why society thinks fat people are lazy.


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## BeaBea (Mar 21, 2009)

If it helps the weights convert as follows...
_Philip Chawner, 53, and his 57-year-old wife Audrey weigh 24st (336lbs). Their daughter Emma, 19, weighs 17st (238lbs), while her older sister Samantha, 21, weighs 18st (252lbs)._

These people have been featured a lot in the UK press. In my opinion they are not too fat to work. They are too stupid and too lazy - and they will remain stupid and lazy all the time the social security system in the UK allows them the luxury of sitting back and letting someone else pay their bills. As a group they are uneducated, inarticulate and ill-mannered and every appearance or comment by them in the media puts Size Acceptance back by decades. 

Tracey


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Mar 21, 2009)

It makes me so angry!!! If my 40 stone fat ass can pull myself out of bed every damn morning and go to a full time job, so could just about anyone. But people here in the UK use and abuse the system...like Oh, I have a hang nail, I can work. I need a council house and benefits!!!


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## exile in thighville (Mar 21, 2009)

that blonde girl's really cute. yeah, this whole article's bullshit - what did the telegraph do, stop a family of fatties in the street? if you have fingers you can type/work. also that dude's not that fat, heart condition notwithstanding. fruit and vegetables are cheaper than microwave dinners. i don't think these people are real.


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## BeaBea (Mar 21, 2009)

If you'd like more evidence of just how charming this family are...

_X Factor flop Emma Chawner is being evicted from her home after more than 150 complaints from neighbours over her family's foul-mouthed threats and tuneless all-night karaoke sessions._

You can read more of the sordid tale here

I guess the issue is that they would be just as offensive if they were thin - but, as they fat it is seen as the cause of their abhorrent behaviour instead of just being incidental.

Oh and Donni - you are an inspiration babe! Every time you go to work you do great work for Size Acceptance. I know its not easy, but you should be so proud of yourself :bow:

Tracey


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Mar 21, 2009)

BeaBea said:


> Oh and Donni - you are an inspiration babe! Every time you go to work you do great work for Size Acceptance. I know its not easy, but you should be so proud of yourself :bow:
> 
> Tracey



Thanks hun. That means a lot. Sometimes I get totally frustrated because of how much it does take out of me and people half my size are sitting on the sofa all day getting a free ride. But I digress.


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## jewels_mystery (Mar 21, 2009)

Are you serious? I drag myself to work everyday and I am bigger than them. Geez


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## BeaBea (Mar 21, 2009)

The family came to notice when one of them auditioned for X Factor. Yes - it IS as bad as you're imagining although I have heard Simon et al be far nastier to other contestants. In his criticism he doesnt mention her weight, just her voice and her fashion choice....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1j73o8lric&feature=related

I genuinely think its a shame. The girls are both pretty and you'd hope they might aspire to be more useful to society than their parents. At least one girl is working as a Hairdresser now so maybe theres hope?

Tracey


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## Just_Jen (Mar 21, 2009)

ya know, i saw this article! and i was sooo pissed off. Because people are reading it and it's giving us larger people a bad name! there's no such thing as too fat to work with the minor health problems they have, taking into account their weight/size (i in no way mean that v. larger people are too fat to work cause of health problems i just mean in relation to their size if that makes any sense..)
The amount of people who are fat and work just brilliantly. they just want an excuse to be lazy. and how much is that goign to give the general population that idea anyway! 

ARGH crush, kill DESTROY!!


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## Santaclear (Mar 21, 2009)

It's just sensationalist crap, like Jerry Springer. No truth there.


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## BeaBea (Mar 21, 2009)

Santaclear said:


> It's just sensationalist crap, like Jerry Springer. No truth there.



Sorry Santa but it IS true - the family really do believe they are too fat to work. I try not to be judgemental but from the way they conducted themselves in interviews etc I wonder if there are learning difficulties within the family. That said, they're clever enough to get money without working and to sell themselves for magazine interviews etc.

Tracey


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## Santaclear (Mar 21, 2009)

BeaBea said:


> Sorry Santa but it IS true - the family really do believe they are too fat to work. I try not to be judgemental but from the way they conducted themselves in interviews etc I wonder if there are learning difficulties within the family. That said, they're clever enough to get money without working and to sell themselves for magazine interviews etc.



I'm not saying the family isn't real, just that their apparent skill at being obnoxious and at playing the media (and vice versa) is sickening.

We all know being fat doesn't mean you can't work. The media circus causes much eye-rolling.


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## kayrae (Mar 21, 2009)

I watched the X Factor link, tee hee


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## missy_blue_eyez (Mar 21, 2009)

Oh my god, this makes me sooooooooooo angry! These people are exactly why I work so damn hard to make sure I can never been tarred with that age old stigma 'If your fat, your lazy!' I refuse to be labelled as a lazy fat person.....I work 2 jobs and do a degree full time. Im around 21 stone, but I manage to run around after pre-schoolers, toddlers and babies for 7 1/2 hours a day, go to a lecture for 2 hours and then spend my evening running up and down a bar at the theatre! 

How dare they! Yeah, I know, its total sensationalism, but I mean, are these people really that stupid to want to be the faces of this kind of rubbish? Good grief! I hate the fact that its titled 'Too Fat to work' there are thousands upon thousands of slim people in the Uk who dont work also, but its just down to being too god damn lazy to work. Fat has fuck all to do with it. 

The benefit system in this country is a fucking joke! It rewards people who have no intention of doing good for the national economy and the people who work there arses off and actually want to achieve something get fuck all and end up having to pay for the layabouts!

It pisses me off so much that im busting a gut to get a good education for myself, so I can provide a comfortable lifestyle for myself and a family when Im older and at the end of it ill have around £19,000 worth of debt. The government dont help me, or reward me for not being another fucking statistic....oh no, what do they do.....take part of my weekly earnings and put it into that big fucking tax pot which ends up paying for scum like this to have there fucked up lifestyle!!!!

I knew I shouldnt have read that article....rant rant rant!!!! Grrr grrrr grrrrr!


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## GoldenDelicious (Mar 21, 2009)

BeaBea said:


> If it helps the weights convert as follows...
> _Philip Chawner, 53, and his 57-year-old wife Audrey weigh 24st (336lbs). Their daughter Emma, 19, weighs 17st (238lbs), while her older sister Samantha, 21, weighs 18st (252lbs)._
> 
> These people have been featured a lot in the UK press. In my opinion they are not too fat to work. They are too stupid and too lazy - and they will remain stupid and lazy all the time the social security system in the UK allows them the luxury of sitting back and letting someone else pay their bills. As a group they are uneducated, inarticulate and ill-mannered and every appearance or comment by them in the media puts Size Acceptance back by decades.
> ...


Spot on Bea Bea. I'm heavier and fatter every member of that family and I work full time. It's people like that who take advantage of the wellfare state who spoil it for needy and deserving cases to access benefits they really need. As for being a positive representative for bbw's, you might think the girls are quite pretty until they open their mouths and speak, they are inarticultate, lazy, dillusional morons. I remember the young one on X factor and she was awful. Everything Simon Cowell said to that family was right. The parents are the most to blame, they should be teaching the girls that you need to work for what you get and not going to the papers complaining they are not getting enough hand outs that tax payers like myself are providing.


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## BeaBea (Mar 21, 2009)

GoldenDelicious said:


> Spot on Bea Bea. I'm heavier and fatter every member of that family and I work full time.



I've just realised that I weight more than both daughters together! I wonder if I could get a story in the Telegraph about the fact I run my own business and my work as a Consultant and Model and every other thing I do to pay my bills?

Tracey xx


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## 1300 Class (Mar 21, 2009)

What a bunch of selfish fuckwits. 
They are what is wrong with society today. 



> It pisses me off so much that im busting a gut to get a good education for myself, so I can provide a comfortable lifestyle for myself and a family when Im older and at the end of it ill have around £19,000 worth of debt. The government dont help me, or reward me for not being another fucking statistic....oh no, what do they do.....take part of my weekly earnings and put it into that big fucking tax pot which ends up paying for scum like this to have there fucked up lifestyle!!!!


Quoted for awsomeness. 

Actually, your entire post is awsomeness. 



> Emma, said: "I'm a student and don't have time to exercise"


What a blantant load of shit. These people live in a fucking fantasy world.


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## GoldenDelicious (Mar 21, 2009)

missy_blue_eyez said:


> Oh my god, this makes me sooooooooooo angry! These people are exactly why I work so damn hard to make sure I can never been tarred with that age old stigma 'If your fat, your lazy!' I refuse to be labelled as a lazy fat person.....I work 2 jobs and do a degree full time. Im around 21 stone, but I manage to run around after pre-schoolers, toddlers and babies for 7 1/2 hours a day, go to a lecture for 2 hours and then spend my evening running up and down a bar at the theatre!
> 
> How dare they! Yeah, I know, its total sensationalism, but I mean, are these people really that stupid to want to be the faces of this kind of rubbish? Good grief! I hate the fact that its titled 'Too Fat to work' there are thousands upon thousands of slim people in the Uk who dont work also, but its just down to being too god damn lazy to work. Fat has fuck all to do with it.
> 
> ...


Here Here, missy. I finished university with £16,000 of student debt and I'm still paying it. When I reached a certain threshold in sallary they started deducting it from my pay, lucky me. All that said though Missy, when you graduate and reach that achievement that you have worked so hard to get, you will have no one to thank but yourself and should be very proud. You will pass on your own morals and work ethic to others who look up to you and it's people like you who will save this country from turning into a complete joke. 

I juggled two part-time jobs when I was at university in order to support myself. I was too proud to ask my parents for help and my mum and dad would ask me if I was ok for money and I'd say I was fine. It was a bit of a catch 22 at times because when I got lots of hours at work I worried about getting behind with my studies and when I studied lots and cut back my work hours I worried that I wouldn't have enough money. I now do a job that I love so I wouldn't change it. You hang in there, it will all be worth it in the end and good luck with your degree, GD x


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## Shosh (Mar 21, 2009)

Epilepsy is a neurological condition that is NOT caused by being overweight.


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## Adamantoise (Mar 21, 2009)

These people are being very greedy,and I would like to believe there are people out there who are much more in need of the money they are receiving. Not to mention what damage this may do to the size acceptance movement,if they continue to perpetuate an ugly stereotype.


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## Fascinita (Mar 22, 2009)

That's sensational, alright! :bow:


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## Emma (Mar 22, 2009)

Crazy thing is this family get more money than me and Nik and Nik works for the bloody benefits office. It's crazy that people are getting more money than the people who work full time sorting it. 

I'm lucky I don't have to work whilst at uni, but it's only because we sacrifice a lot to get by that way. I'll be spending the summer doing unpaid work for my course.


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## 1300 Class (Mar 22, 2009)

> allowance for _*epilepsy*_ and asthma, both a result of being overweight.


What a load of shit. I don't care if they said it or the Telegraph did. What a load of fucking shit! Soshie hit it on the head.


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## BBW Betty (Mar 22, 2009)

This article pissed me off, too. It's hard enough to fight the stereroypes without lazy idiots like these. To me, they are the embodiment of "white trash" who just happen to be fat. The one daughter says they want to stop the abuse they get in the streets. Well, start taking responsibility for yourself to make your life better and more fulfilling. Handouts won't do it.

I'm also heavier than any one of them, and I work full time. My job is admittedly sedentary, but I've seen much bigger people working in factories.


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## Shosh (Mar 22, 2009)

Furthermore Asthma is NOT caused by being overweight. Asthma is a chronic respiratory condition that is resultant of a combination of environmental and genetic factors.
Allergies, pollution in the air etc etc, all can contribute to one developing this condition.

My 11 year old nephew Brandon is a severe Asthmatic, and he is NOT obese.

In a nutshell, Epilepsy is neurological in nature, Asthma is respiratory in nature.

They are both NOT caused by obesity.


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## 1300 Class (Mar 22, 2009)

Shhhhh, don't tell the Telegraph, it might get in the way of "news"!


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 22, 2009)

Susannah said:


> Furthermore Asthma is NOT caused by being overweight. Asthma is a chronic respiratory condition that is resultant of a combination of environmental and genetic factors.
> Allergies, pollution in the air etc etc, all can contribute to one developing this condition.
> 
> My 11 year old nephew Brandon is a severe Asthmatic, and he is NOT obese.
> ...



Actually asthma can be exacerbated by overweight. The fat can compress the internal organs, including the lungs, but not it is not caused by overweight.

But beyond that, I know plenty of asthmatics who work! We even have a couple of high profile American footballers who have asthma who have done public service ads to educate Americans about the disease and how you can still play sports with the proper care.

None of those people look to be too fat to work anyway. I work at a bar and 2 staffers there are the size of that husband, they not only work but work at jobs where you are always on your feet. I also have 3 relatives who are super sized (at least 2 are over 400) and they work full time and one is also a mother and grandmother.

Utter nonsense.


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## Pookie (Mar 22, 2009)

This really angers me, they are feeding the hatred of fat people by allowing themselves to be portrayed in this drama-whore way.

I work with children, I run about all bloody day, I get tired sure, but I work because I am not lazy money grubbing people like this. They are using fat as an excuse, completely and utterly as an excuse for their lazy self indulgent lifestyle. I know being fat makes things harder, but at their weights, and they are not immobile... then you can work, make something for yourself, you dont need to take the benefits system for a ride... not make fools of yourself in national papers.

Its this kind of person who really sets back efforts in fat acceptance by so many others.


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## mergirl (Mar 22, 2009)

Adamantoise said:


> These people are being very greedy,and I would like to believe there are people out there who are much more in need of the money they are receiving. Not to mention what damage this may do to the size acceptance movement,if they continue to perpetuate an ugly stereotype.


NOt to mention the damage its doing to people who actually ARE disabled and need social help!! It makes a fucking mockery out of the system and makes people who are genuine feel like shit cause they are lumped in with this family. In saying that, i'm sure they are slightly erm 'not right' mentally. Oh, i was also going to say..did they actually say they wern't working 'because' they were fat.. cause i think this might possibly have been another wee sneaky media ploy. ie.Take advantage of borderline retarded people by putting words in their mouths. Cause the media sometimes do that like!


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## olwen (Mar 22, 2009)

All I could do after reading the article was to LOL at how absurd this all is. Of course they aren't too fat to work. They just hate working and if they're living in a society that says fat people can't do anything then well, why not exploit that? I'm not sure which is more absurd, the fact that they are getting welfare or the fact that the media over there is picking up the story. 

I can only hope that thinking people will realize the absurdity of it all and will not lump us all in with them. It's all rubbish.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Mar 22, 2009)

olwen said:


> All I could do after reading the article was to LOL at how absurd this all is. Of course they aren't too fat to work. They just hate working and if they're living in a society that says fat people can't do anything then well, why not exploit that? I'm not sure which is more absurd, the fact that they are getting welfare or the fact that the media over there is picking up the story.
> 
> I can only hope that thinking people will realize the absurdity of it all and will not lump us all in with them. It's all rubbish.



See and this is what I try to explain about the UK vs the US. You would never hear about someone weighing 300lbs on welfare cos they couldn't work. I'm sure it happens, but the media here has such a STRONG anti fat attitude and it is deeply entrenched into the minds of the people who live here. It's very frustrating.


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## olwen (Mar 22, 2009)

BigBellySSBBW said:


> See and this is what I try to explain about the UK vs the US. You would never hear about someone weighing 300lbs on welfare cos they couldn't work. I'm sure it happens, but the media here has such a STRONG anti fat attitude and it is deeply entrenched into the minds of the people who live here. It's very frustrating.



I know. I read the bbc religiously and I'm struck by the alarmist attitude about fatness just from that one source. All the more reason for the absurd nature of it all.


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## mergirl (Mar 22, 2009)

BigBellySSBBW said:


> See and this is what I try to explain about the UK vs the US. You would never hear about someone weighing 300lbs on welfare cos they couldn't work. I'm sure it happens, but the media here has such a STRONG anti fat attitude and it is deeply entrenched into the minds of the people who live here. It's very frustrating.


Think i might write into the paper tommorow and tell them to write a story about all the fat people who actually DO work!
I think also people are VERY anoyed at 'benifit scroungers' in this country especially as taxes are high and we are in the midsts of a recession etc. I have seen stories about all sorts of people scrounging from the government in the papers.. this is just another example of this, it just so happens they are fat this time. 
I think also there are a lot more Fat people in the US than in the uk (though we are catching up) so you will maby see more stories like this over here till the media habituates itself to the fact that we are all fatter.


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## ghhfdh (Mar 22, 2009)

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/columnists/kelvin_mackenzie/article2327575.ece

Be sure to leave a comment!


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Mar 22, 2009)

ghhfdh said:


> http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/columnists/kelvin_mackenzie/article2327575.ece
> 
> Be sure to leave a comment!



That picture says a 1000 words. And some of those words are, they aren't that fat but they do look pretty dumb/stupid/learning disabled/plain ole retarded.


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## Mathias (Mar 22, 2009)

They actually think that telling the world they are all too fat to work and deserve more handout will STOP the ridicule they get?! These people are idiots.


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## mossystate (Mar 22, 2009)

BigBellySSBBW said:


> And some of those words are, they aren't that fat but they do look pretty dumb/stupid/learning disabled/plain ole retarded.





.........


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## superodalisque (Mar 22, 2009)

is it just me or is dims starting to resemble one of those fat hating sites where people put up stuff like this and then talk about how disgusting the fat people are? i wonder if folks don't understand that there are people getting off on this like some folks get off on mud wrestling? easy setup i'd say.


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## mergirl (Mar 22, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> is it just me or is dims starting to resemble one of those fat hating sites where people put up stuff like this and then talk about how disgusting the fat people are? i wonder if folks don't understand that there are people getting off on this like some folks get off on mud wrestling? easy setup i'd say.


Ive been feeling some anger here but i feel its more focused on 'media' representations of fat people...Or anger at particular fat people giving others a bad name.


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## Jon Blaze (Mar 22, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> is it just me or is dims starting to resemble one of those fat hating sites where people put up stuff like this and then talk about how disgusting the fat people are? i wonder if folks don't understand that there are people getting off on this like some folks get off on mud wrestling? easy setup i'd say.



This is another step back. Whether that means someone ranting rather than just saying "Ehhh," with a possible tactful reply and moving on is a matter of the person. The size of the person doesn't matter I think so much as the subject. Any controversy about size is going to make any number of people sour. 

This seriously invokes a TACTICAL FACEPALM for me, and I do agree what they're doing is despicable (Really? At that size? Really? ), but I'm not going to react too negatively even though I want to. 


And what Mer said too. No one says you gotta cut the bad apples in half, but that doesn't mean it's wrong to recognize them! lol


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## superodalisque (Mar 22, 2009)

mergirl said:


> Ive been feeling some anger here but i feel its more focused on 'media' representations of fat people...Or anger at particular fat people giving others a bad name.




i can understand how someone might feel that way. but these are just people who take advantage, just like thin people who take advantage. its really hard to make the connection between these people and the nice fat woman who works in the cubicle 3 rows over unless you are just a jerk anyway. in that case no one should care what your opinion is. i just think people might want to be careful about drawing parallels about how this story has something to do with them and their life or image. i mean thats a big weight to carry(no pun intended)--every bad behavior of every nutty BBW and BHM. sometimes you just have to let it be what it is and live your own life. people have enough to stress about. you can't waste yout time holding up a mirror to every n'er do well and asking is that what people see when they see me. the answer is that they see you nd whatever you are. i doubt that these people go through a thin person's head whenever they see a fat person. i doubt most of them ever sawor even paid atention to the story in the first place because they also have real lives to lead.


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## JenFromOC (Mar 22, 2009)

First and foremost....what is a bacon buttie? It doesn't sound delicious.

Epilepsy has, oh let's say, ZERO connection to being fat.

And, just the way this article was written, screams TABLOID!!!!!

LOL


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## Wild Zero (Mar 22, 2009)

JenFromOC said:


> Epilepsy has, oh let's say, ZERO connection to being fat.



And in fact can be treated with a high fat ketogenic diet, which is pretty much as far as an illness can get from "OBEEZEETEE RELATED DESEASE!!!11!!!"


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## Vanessa (Mar 22, 2009)

There are two things going on here - As a Brit I'm hanging my head and shaking it. But here goes.
First thing - We Brits have a nanny state. At times this is great, for instance no matter who you are or where you are in social system you will get free health care. Yeah I work and pay tax and NI but even if I didn't I'd still get free health care. I digress..

If people don't want to work there are all sorts of loops holes that make it easy for people not to. 

The second thing is these people know how to work the system. They are using every loop hole in order to play ignorant.

The world sees 'fat and lazy'. I see 'hustlers' They are not too stupid to walk around the block and get exercise they just chose not to. 

I don't go to a gym but I walk five miles a day more if I can. I like it - that's my keep fit. They're trying to tell me they don't know how to walk? 

They know by pulling the health card due to weight they will have less chance of being called upon by unemployment officials (when their claims are reviewed) to work. 

I'm surprised they haven't pulled the 'mental anguish due to body mass' card. 

Yes, it's a step back but there are two areas they make valid points and it aches me to say this but fruit and veg are expensive in this country (UK).
Most of it is imported and tastes like half a ton of pesticides have been sprayed on it.
There are markets but some are not in towns or easily accessible so good home grown stuff can be hard to come by. 

Then let's face it some people don't have a clue how to cook it. 
Microwaves are favored over ovens for many families in the UK.

Yes there is nothing from stopping these people growing their own if they have the space a small plot in the back yard, but let's face facts - it's cheaper to buy a pie and feel full than go out and get a fruit and veg plot going and eat off the land.

Processed foods are much much cheaper and this is the crying shame. 
I love fruit and veg (greens) and I can afford them but if I couldn't it would be very easy for me to buy crap just to feel like I've had a meal. 

These people though have stated they lack the education to change but they are educated to know enough about 'the fat gene'. 

People like this are easily found in the UK - I don't know about the rest of the world. But with families seeing this as the easy way out and a great cushion through life expect more stories like this.

But for every family like this there's plenty of others of the same weight who are working their arses off. But those stories don't sell magazines.

What makes me angry the most is the lack of incentive to change. 
But incentive comes from the core as well as from the way people are educated both in schools and at home. 

You can bet if they said to this family, 'You work for one year and we'll give you a million' they'd soon get their behinds off the sofa. 

Money talks and you get bet they were paid a nice sum for their interview too!


Vx


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## Vanessa (Mar 22, 2009)

JenFromOC said:


> First and foremost....what is a bacon buttie? It doesn't sound delicious.
> 
> Epilepsy has, oh let's say, ZERO connection to being fat.
> 
> ...



It's bacon in a sandwich and a very popular quick fix food snack in Britain


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## JenFromOC (Mar 22, 2009)

Vanessa said:


> It's bacon in a sandwich and a very popular quick fix food snack in Britain



Well then...I retract my previous statement! That DOES sound delicious.


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## Vanessa (Mar 22, 2009)

JenFromOC said:


> Well then...I retract my previous statement! That DOES sound delicious.



You don't know what you're missing.  They are lovely but for me they are a treat. I wouldn't want to live off them. The salt content alone is way too much for me.


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## 1300 Class (Mar 22, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> is it just me or is dims starting to resemble one of those fat hating sites where people put up stuff like this and then talk about how disgusting the fat people are? i wonder if folks don't understand that there are people getting off on this like some folks get off on mud wrestling? easy setup i'd say.


Regardless of whether they are fat or thin, these people are still welfare bludging 'tards who deserve to be ripped into. 

The fact they are using their weight as a justification for their selfish behaviour deserves to be talked about, because we as a community can't just ignore this sort of thing. It has to be adressed. There is a Ying and a Yang to this community and we can't just turn on the blinders when something distasteful or negative such as this rears its ugly head. 



> I would be very grateful if the lardarse lobby — which is huge, as you might expect — didn’t write to me, email me or text me.


Whats the story with organisations in the UK at the moment?


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## GutsGirl (Mar 22, 2009)

Vanessa said:


> Yes, it's a step back but there are two areas they make valid points and it aches me to say this but fruit and veg are expensive in this country (UK).
> Most of it is imported and tastes like half a ton of pesticides have been sprayed on it.
> There are markets but some are not in towns or easily accessible so good home grown stuff can be hard to come by.
> 
> ...



All good points. It is a shame that fruits and vegetables are so expensive in the UK... is it because of importing? 

A vegetable garden is not too hard to maintain, in my (very limited) experience. I don't know how much the UK weather would confound it, but I live in the American South, out in the countryside, and my family has a very small vegetable garden where we grow tomatoes, squash, and a few other things like peppers every summer. It's very, very tiny but it gets the job done and is not too hard to maintain, and the tomatoes are delicious. Then again the South is not England, so I honestly don't know what sort of vegetables and fruits would grow best in your climate. 

There is the saying, "You can lead a horse to water but cannot make him drink." This family is that horse.


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## mergirl (Mar 23, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> i can understand how someone might feel that way. but these are just people who take advantage, just like thin people who take advantage. its really hard to make the connection between these people and the nice fat woman who works in the cubicle 3 rows over unless you are just a jerk anyway. in that case no one should care what your opinion is. i just think people might want to be careful about drawing parallels about how this story has something to do with them and their life or image. i mean thats a big weight to carry(no pun intended)--every bad behavior of every nutty BBW and BHM. sometimes you just have to let it be what it is and live your own life. people have enough to stress about. you can't waste yout time holding up a mirror to every n'er do well and asking is that what people see when they see me. the answer is that they see you nd whatever you are. i doubt that these people go through a thin person's head whenever they see a fat person. i doubt most of them ever sawor even paid atention to the story in the first place because they also have real lives to lead.


Yup you are right. oh when i said i feel anger 'here' i ment on the boards in general and not 'here' as in from me specifically btw. 
Again though, i do think these people are slightly retarded and i mean that seriously. You only have to look at their madness on the x factor to see this. I think when we are slagging people like this off really we are just making fun of the village idiot to make ourselves feel better. I think it was just brought to our attention here because they are fat.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 23, 2009)

BigBellySSBBW said:


> That picture says a 1000 words. And some of those words are, they aren't that fat but they do look pretty dumb/stupid/learning disabled/plain ole retarded.



Donni, I know you are a kind person and meant no harm, but please keep in mind that many people are learning disabled and that is not comparable to being dumb or retarded. Yes these peoples' words certainly show them to be losers and jerks, but also keep in mind mental retardation is a _true_ disability and it's people like that who really do need public assistance.


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## mergirl (Mar 23, 2009)

LoveBHMS said:


> Donni, I know you are a kind person and meant no harm, but please keep in mind that many people are learning disabled and that is not comparable to being dumb or retarded. Yes these peoples' words certainly show them to be losers and jerks, but also keep in mind mental retardation is a _true_ disability and it's people like that who really do need public assistance.


The Pc term now is 'mental health service user'. To be honest i really think these people are in need of some sort of service..maby why they are on benifits. They are nowhere near being 'too fat to work'.


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## GoldenDelicious (Mar 23, 2009)

mergirl said:


> Yup you are right. oh when i said i feel anger 'here' i ment on the boards in general and not 'here' as in from me specifically btw.
> Again though, i do think these people are slightly retarded and i mean that seriously. You only have to look at their madness on the x factor to see this. I think when we are slagging people like this off really we are just making fun of the village idiot to make ourselves feel better. I think it was just brought to our attention here because they are fat.


It's not making fun of the village idiot, they might have a screw or two loose but they are not idiots, they were smart enough to milk the system and I know educated people who don't know the first thing about claiming benefits.

I do have to say this though, I don't think this family deserve to be abused in the street, only because I would never treat anyone that way. I actually don't think the girls get that much money, considering they are old enough to work and earn much more than the benefits they are receiving and the younger one is training to be a hairdresser that counts for something. It looks like they are receiving a lot when you add it up but between four adults, its not much. It's the mum and dad I think are not setting a good example to the girls, like the world owes them a living. They are probably in a council house and getting their rent paid and not paying any council tax either. 

I know some people who earn less than 22,000 pounds and support their families as well as pay a motgage off that sallary. I don't know that they actually said they were too fat to work, the headline says that and the interview questions them about their lifestyle but they weren't quoted saying it as far as I know. It is therefore sensationalist crap and the media are portraying fat=benifit sponging lazy morons. This I have an issue with. as well as;so long as you have families like this one posing happily for the photos and getting paid for thier interviews, whilst claiming benefits and not working they are indeed giving fat people a bad name. I have faced this prejudice in my life being fat and articles like this do nothing to alleviate the situation.


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## mergirl (Mar 23, 2009)

GoldenDelicious said:


> It's not making fun of the village idiot, they might have a screw or two loose but they are not idiots, they were smart enough to milk the system and I know educated people who don't know the first thing about claiming benefits.
> 
> .



If they were that smart the daughter would be 'claiming' she was too fat to work too and be on Disability as opposed to jobseekers because then she would get double the money.
I dont really get this. The father is epeleptic, so should be on disability. Sometimes people with epilepsy need full time carers hence the reason the mum might be claiming benifits. The younger daughter is training at college trying to make something of herself. The other daughter in on jobseekers..so is looking for work and getting about £50 a week, in a lot of areas work is scarce right now. Time we started seeing this for what it REALLY is- Society BLAMING fat people for the state of the country!!!! We cant blame black people, jews, people from different countries because (thankfully) there is legislation in place to fight this kind of discrimination.. FAT people though.. well thats another matter. Fat is the last bastian of acceptable discrimination..And Even the 'fat community' is falling for it!
Well..maby we will feel bad that we slagged this family off when they have fat people in the stocks, blaming them for the ecconomy etc etc... It seems to me that THIS is the sneeky tip of the iceberg!! who knows.


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## GoldenDelicious (Mar 23, 2009)

mergirl said:


> If they were that smart the daughter would be 'claiming' she was too fat to work too and be on Disability as opposed to jobseekers because then she would get double the money.
> I dont really get this. The father is epeleptic, so should be on disability. Sometimes people with epilepsy need full time carers hence the reason the mum might be claiming benifits. The younger daughter is training at college trying to make something of herself. The other daughter in on jobseekers..so is looking for work and getting about £50 a week, in a lot of areas work is scarce right now. Time we started seeing this for what it REALLY is- Society BLAMING fat people for the state of the country!!!! We cant blame black people, jews, people from different countries because (thankfully) there is legislation in place to fight this kind of discrimination.. FAT people though.. well thats another matter. Fat is the last bastian of acceptable discrimination..And Even the 'fat community' is falling for it!
> Well..maby we will feel bad that we slagged this family off when they have fat people in the stocks, blaming them for the ecconomy etc etc... It seems to me that THIS is the sneeky tip of the iceberg!! who knows.


Stop playing devils advocate, or shit stirrer, which ever you're trying to be. You have agreed with the things I have said about this family in the privacy of our own home so don't go misquoting me!!! I didn't say that the dad didn't deserve benefits for his disability but he doesn't need a full time carer, or at least he didn't when he strolled into the x factor auditions and argued with Simon Cowell. They want to be in the media spotlight and are enjoying the attention, they also want to be rich and famous for having no tallent and not working hard to be successfull.

You also know the prejudices I have encountered because of my size and it has enraged you because you know I am hard working in my career and in our home. When I told you about an ex colleague handing me a bag of fruit and saying, "go on, eat something healthy for a change" you were cursing her and ranting like a mad woman. So, then we have families like this claiming not to know what healthy food is and that fruit and vegetables are too expensive??? Ok, some fruit and vegetables can be but frozen vegetables are cheap and still good for you, you can buy what is in season and that will be the cheapest, potatoes to not need to be made into chips (fries) they can be baked, there is no excuse. Ok, I have qualifications in health and fitness and therefore have a little more than your average knowledge but the Uk has loads of TV adverts on about eating your five a day and low fat spread etc etc.

Yes, due to the 'credit crunch' the work situation is poor but you said yourself to me the other day that there are always shop jobs advertising, even a low paid job would give a little pocket money and a lot of pride and self-respect. I'm not buying that feeble excuse. I think we need more fat positive stories and more large role models to counter balance the trash stories like, 'too fat to work' piffle!


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## mergirl (Mar 23, 2009)

I'll be sleeping in the guest room tonight!


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Mar 23, 2009)

LoveBHMS said:


> Donni, I know you are a kind person and meant no harm, but please keep in mind that many people are learning disabled and that is not comparable to being dumb or retarded. Yes these peoples' words certainly show them to be losers and jerks, but also keep in mind mental retardation is a _true_ disability and it's people like that who really do need public assistance.


 
Yeah, I realised after it was too late to edit that what I said could have been said a whole lot better. Sorry to anyone I offended.


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## aptx (Mar 23, 2009)

Fuckin shamefull. Worst thing about the UK imo is how certain types of scummy individuals live off of the state.
Do these people have no pride or self respect?
Also, they are far from too big to work they are just lazy worthless fucks.

UGH


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## mergirl (Mar 23, 2009)

aptx said:


> Fuckin shamefull. Worst thing about the UK imo is how certain types of scummy individuals live off of the state.
> Do these people have no pride or self respect?
> Also, they are far from too big to work they are just lazy worthless fucks.
> 
> UGH


The good thing about the UK is the fact that when an ambulance rushes to take someone to hospital the first thing they check is their pulse NOT their wallet! I would rather some "Scummy lazy worthless prideless fucks with no respect" get through the net than have people dying because they dont have enough money for health care.


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## superodalisque (Mar 24, 2009)

mergirl said:


> The good thing about the UK is the fact that when an ambulance rushes to take someone to hospital the first thing they check is their pulse NOT their wallet! I would rather some "Scummy lazy worthless prideless fucks with no respect" get through the net than have people dying because they dont have enough money for health care.



maybe they should think of it as fat repairations and it might make em feel better about it

degrade, make fun of, humiliate and pay for the priviledge


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## OzGuy (Mar 26, 2009)

Unfortunately in Australia, the culture of putting the hand out for welfare has become so commonplace people just accept it as the norm. You don't seem to need any real excuse to get the cheque these days. 

Any one of those girls in the photo look quite capable of working to me.


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## 1300 Class (Mar 26, 2009)

Welfare should be a safety net, not a lifestyle. 

Thats the message that needs to be put out. In fact, I should use it more often.


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## BBW Betty (Mar 26, 2009)

aptx said:


> Fuckin shamefull. Worst thing about the UK imo is how certain types of scummy individuals live off of the state.
> Do these people have no pride or self respect?
> Also, they are far from too big to work they are just lazy worthless fucks.
> 
> UGH



Well, we have some of them in the U.S. too. Just different programs to take advantage of.

It really pisses me off when people abuse the system like this. Those programs are available because there are people with real problems. But welfare as a way of life...GRRRRR


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## mergirl (Mar 27, 2009)

BBW Betty said:


> Well, we have some of them in the U.S. too. Just different programs to take advantage of.
> 
> It really pisses me off when people abuse the system like this. Those programs are available because there are people with real problems. But welfare as a way of life...GRRRRR


You have to think why some people would chose 'weyylfayer' as a way of life. Could it be because taking a job would pay them just about as much money as it would if they were recieving benifits? Or that there is no adiquate child care systems? I think there are many reasons people are out of work. To be honest if my only choice was to work on a production line 9 to 5, all day every day for the rest of my life i think i would kill myself!!. (Alternativly, go on weyylfayyer and watch shit daytime tv shows berating other people on weyylfayyer).


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## BBW Betty (Mar 28, 2009)

mergirl said:


> You have to think why some people would chose 'weyylfayer' as a way of life. Could it be because taking a job would pay them just about as much money as it would if they were recieving benifits? Or that there is no adiquate child care systems? I think there are many reasons people are out of work. To be honest if my only choice was to work on a production line 9 to 5, all day every day for the rest of my life i think i would kill myself!!. (Alternativly, go on weyylfayyer and watch shit daytime tv shows berating other people on weyylfayyer).



Believe me, I completely understand about child care and other pragmatic issues. I know - and care deeply about - many people with real hardships and disablilities. Losing your job is not a shameful thing, either. But most people, when they lose one job, begin looking for another. Way of life means it's what they've chosen for their "career," and they teach their children to take advantage instead of finding a job they like/ can do. It crosses generations not because of lack of ability or options, but lack of ambition.


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## mergirl (Mar 28, 2009)

BBW Betty said:


> Believe me, I completely understand about child care and other pragmatic issues. I know - and care deeply about - many people with real hardships and disablilities. Losing your job is not a shameful thing, either. But most people, when they lose one job, begin looking for another. Way of life means it's what they've chosen for their "career," and they teach their children to take advantage instead of finding a job they like/ can do. It crosses generations not because of lack of ability or options, but lack of ambition.


It is a shame that young people are brought up in many cases to have no ambition. I have a social worker friend who has talked to kids in deprived areas and asked them what they want to be when they grow up. These kids were about 12 and you would expect they would have really high aspirations like astronaught, pop star etc.. but the majority of the kids said "probably just 'sign on' like my dad". Its really sad.. Its hard to inspire kids who have been brought up with that attitude. The parental attitude usually has come from lack of jobs and prospects or poor education and becomes a poverty spiral. I think i feel more sorry for these people than i feel anger.


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## olwen (Mar 28, 2009)

mergirl said:


> It is a shame that young people are brought up in many cases to have no ambition. I have a social worker friend who has talked to kids in deprived areas and asked them what they want to be when they grow up. These kids were about 12 and you would expect they would have really high aspirations like astronaught, pop star etc.. but the majority of the kids said "probably just 'sign on' like my dad". Its really sad.. Its hard to inspire kids who have been brought up with that attitude. The parental attitude usually has come from lack of jobs and prospects or poor education and becomes a poverty spiral. I think i feel more sorry for these people than i feel anger.



You have to wonder to if their teachers don't expect much from disadvantaged youths and also tell them they can't do much. That's the case here sometimes. Teachers can have students who are in gangs and might be scared of them and think trying to educate them is hopeless when they don't really want to learn, so they just go, do the minimun to get their paychecks and try to find better schools to teach in. Even worse is when the kids live in dangerous neighborhoods and consider it a good day if they make it home without getting shot or jumped. In that kind of environment it's hard to see a way out if no one tells you that education is the best way out (as opposed to the army), not even the educators. It is sad and depressing.


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## mergirl (Mar 28, 2009)

olwen said:


> You have to wonder to if their teachers don't expect much from disadvantaged youths and also tell them they can't do much. That's the case here sometimes. Teachers can have students who are in gangs and might be scared of them and think trying to educate them is hopeless when they don't really want to learn, so they just go, do the minimun to get their paychecks and try to find better schools to teach in. Even worse is when the kids live in dangerous neighborhoods and consider it a good day if they make it home without getting shot or jumped. In that kind of environment it's hard to see a way out if no one tells you that education is the best way out (as opposed to the army), not even the educators. It is sad and depressing.


Totally agree with you. In some of the rougher parts of cities here there is definate fear of violence for young people, obviously not with guns, but there is a mentality that if you are not hard then you get picked on. There are a lot of really bright kids who wont/cant study because they will get picked on. For people to have hope in their abilities they NEED someone who believes in them and if they are not getting it from home then school is the only way. If teachers are not going to be the mentors for these kids then it is of little surprise when they decide to 'sign on' for a living or turn to crime. In any case, as with everything, education is always the key to move forward or to get out.


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## gangstadawg (Mar 28, 2009)

Jon Blaze said:


> This is another step back. Whether that means someone ranting rather than just saying "Ehhh," with a possible tactful reply and moving on is a matter of the person. The size of the person doesn't matter I think so much as the subject. Any controversy about size is going to make any number of people sour.
> 
> This seriously invokes a TACTICAL FACEPALM for me, and I do agree what they're doing is despicable (Really? At that size? Really? ), but I'm not going to react too negatively even though I want to.
> 
> ...


some one ordered a tactical facepalm? sorry its a lil late.


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## BeaBea (Apr 2, 2009)

In case anyone is listening - the Jeremy Vine show are covering this story at 1pm on BBC Radio 2 today. I emailed my comments and theres a chance I might be on air. If anyone else wants to give their opinion they can! http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/shows/vine/biography.shtml

Tracey x


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## mergirl (Apr 2, 2009)

Just tuned in..This should be interesting.


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## Emma (Apr 3, 2009)

Is there anywhere I can listen to this show online?


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## mergirl (Apr 3, 2009)

CurvyEm said:


> Is there anywhere I can listen to this show online?


If you have clicked on the link above and there is no repeat then i'm not sure where you could. 
Oh tracey, i heard your 'menchie'! It was the best comment of all .."i weigh the same as both the daughters put together and i have like 3 jobs!" Brilliant! 
I found the interview itself a bit sad..the mum is obviously a bit slow. The dad is obviously actually in pretty ill health. I'm not too sure about the daughters but they SAY they have been looking extensivly for work. 
The interview made me cringe.. the host asked them to tell him what they ate in a day..and things like that and some of the public views and newspaper comments were, not just anti 'lazy people' but in some cases were sizist. 
I dont think i like the way this country is becomming more anti-fat. It is an ecconomy thing or is it just its always been these and now its rearing its head? Its a bit scary, the government are looking for someone to blame and they have found it in fat people and they are not even going to have to make fat people wear stars on their arms as fat is pretty easy to distinguish. I think this could be the beginning of a slippery slope, easing people in to fat hate by begining with people who are pretty much easy targets. I felt pretty sorry for them to be honest.


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## BeaBea (Apr 3, 2009)

You can hear the show again for the next seven days if you go here http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/shows/vine/ I dont think its been loaded up yet but should be available some time later today.

Mer, I agree with you, I thought the Mum was definitely a bit slow, and yes, I did feel sorry for them too. They seem to be caught up in a media storm and to have no skills to handle it all. I'm sure that when it is suggested to them they they give interviews they are told that they will have the chance to give their own side of the story - but even if they had any justification for refusing to work they certainly dont have the verbal skills to deliver a persuasive case. 

All in all its just sad. Their story is adding to size prejudice, its an insult to every large person who works damn hard and the family themselves are just digging their way deeper into notoriety. 

Tracey


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## 1300 Class (Apr 4, 2009)

> You have to think why some people would chose 'weyylfayer' as a way of life. Could it be because taking a job would pay them just about as much money as it would if they were recieving benifits? Or that there is no adiquate child care systems? I think there are many reasons people are out of work.


Thats total BullShit of the highest degree. Both my parents had to work full time when I was growing up and we all somehow got throught it. Without a single penny from the government for help. Or finding child care spaces or what have you. Maybe if people stopped leaching off the system and started contributing to it then more resources would be available, so that they could pay for child care et all. 



> To be honest if my only choice was to work on a production line 9 to 5, all day every day for the rest of my life i think i would kill myself!!. (Alternativly, go on weyylfayyer and watch shit daytime tv shows berating other people on weyylfayyer).


So we should close all the factories, manufacturing, mines, and any form of industry or transport that doesn't conform to your pet theories about social responsibility and economic viability?


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## mergirl (Apr 5, 2009)

Australian Lord said:


> Thats total BullShit of the highest degree. Both my parents had to work full time when I was growing up and we all somehow got throught it. Without a single penny from the government for help. Or finding child care spaces or what have you. Maybe if people stopped leaching off the system and started contributing to it then more resources would be available, so that they could pay for child care et all.
> 
> 
> So we should close all the factories, manufacturing, mines, and any form of industry or transport that doesn't conform to your pet theories about social responsibility and economic viability?


It wasn't my 'pet theory', it was my personal choice, which is why i have always been 'self employed'; in the music industry, Dj'ing or in jobs where i had a lot of freedom and daily changes ie teaching theater, music etc. I personally dont have whatever it is that would allow me to work in an office from 9 to 5 without killing myself. I know people who do this, so i know its not impossible..so no need to shut down the factories. Also, well done to your parents, thats great for them. 
I'm telling you why some people chose to stay on welfair. Its called the poverty trap. People get the same amount of money for not working than they do for actually working, so they dont bother. It doesnt matter what you or anyone else thinks about this because its what happens. Some people, like your parents work regardless but not all people are like that. Just because you dont like this doesnt make it less of a fact!


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## gangstadawg (Apr 5, 2009)

olwen said:


> You have to wonder to if their teachers don't expect much from disadvantaged youths and also tell them they can't do much. That's the case here sometimes. Teachers can have students who are in gangs and might be scared of them and think trying to educate them is hopeless when they don't really want to learn, so they just go, do the minimun to get their paychecks and try to find better schools to teach in. Even worse is when the kids live in dangerous neighborhoods and consider it a good day if they make it home without getting shot or jumped. In that kind of environment it's hard to see a way out if no one tells you that education is the best way out (as opposed to the army), not even the educators. It is sad and depressing.


i agree with you. i live in detroit (born and raised) and i know exactly how it is.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Apr 5, 2009)

mergirl said:


> It wasn't my 'pet theory', it was my personal choice, which is why i have always been 'self employed'; in the music industry, Dj'ing or in jobs where i had a lot of freedom and daily changes ie teaching theater, music etc. I personally dont have whatever it is that would allow me to work in an office from 9 to 5 without killing myself. I know people who do this, so i know its not impossible..so no need to shut down the factories. Also, well done to your parents, thats great for them.
> I'm telling you why some people chose to stay on welfair. Its called the poverty trap. People get the same amount of money for not working than they do for actually working, so they dont bother. It doesnt matter what you or anyone else thinks about this because its what happens. Some people, like your parents work regardless but not all people are like that. Just because you dont like this doesnt make it less of a fact!



The world would collapse if everyone had that attitude. If no one worked, there would be no welfare to be on as no one would have wages to be taxed. There would be no goods and services to live on.

Work sucks, but it is a reason to get up in the morning and feel like you are contributing to the good of mankind.


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## op user (Apr 5, 2009)

mergirl,

I tried to give you some respect for the whole point of low paid jobs vs. receiving benefits. In our days media promote glamorous jobs and life style giving very little importance to base values, like being a decent citizen, and a good family member. These girls see all those pop stars making millions and living a very fancy life style and they feel they can do it as well. At the contrary the jobs they CAN make are tyring and difficult and lowly paid.

The whole point is how can you make people being proud about the job they can do and choice to work over receiving benefits. 

op user


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## 1300 Class (Apr 5, 2009)

> I'm telling you why some people chose to stay on welfair. Its called the poverty trap. People get the same amount of money for not working than they do for actually working, so they dont bother. It doesnt matter what you or anyone else thinks about this because its what happens. Some people, like your parents work regardless but not all people are like that. Just because you dont like this doesnt make it less of a fact!


That is false. 

If they do get the same amount of money from either, then they should be working and creating wealth, not sapping it away! Thus instead of living off the state, there are now more resources thus still available for distribution in other forms. So because it 'just happens' we should just say its ok and bury our heads in the sand? 

Your argument seems to rest on the foundation argument that therefore people permanently on Welfare are lazy and rorting the system. 

I have been a long time proponent of Work for the Dole schemes, like we have had here in Australia for some time. Basically, if you want Dole money, you are thus assigned something to do. Planting trees, sweeping streets, clearing median strips or parks or whatever. At least then, the person is contributing something back into society rather than just "take take take" for free. 



> I tried to give you some respect for the whole point of low paid jobs vs. receiving benefits. In our days media promote glamorous jobs and life style giving very little importance to base values, like being a decent citizen, and a good family member. These girls see all those pop stars making millions and living a very fancy life style and they feel they can do it as well. At the contrary the jobs they CAN make are tyring and difficult and lowly paid.


So its everybody's fault bar their own, ignoring their own selfish, lazy workshy attitudes? Oh of course! Its never their fault, how could it be, bless them~! I stack shelves, work casual, and try and do the best every time I go in because that was the way I was brought up. If your going to do a job, then do it well it every time and don't expect to do it anyless. Maybe if some of these people were taught a bit of work ethic and responsibility the long term 'lazies' as identified by Mergirl, then things would be better.

Welfare bludgers, rorters and their hand kissing apologists which have emerged out of the woodwork here to defend them really, really piss me off.


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## olwen (Apr 5, 2009)

Australian Lord said:


> That is false.
> 
> If they do get the same amount of money from either, then they should be working and creating wealth, not sapping it away! Thus instead of living off the state, there are now more resources thus still available for distribution in other forms. So because it 'just happens' we should just say its ok and bury our heads in the sand?
> 
> ...



AL, the problem tho is that some of the people on welfare lack education, which in this country makes them virtually unemployable, especially if they are minorities, tho there are more whites on welfare than minorities here. They are stuck doing menial wage jobs that offer no or little room for advancement, which usually means you work twice as hard for just enough to barely pay the bills. Means you work 35-50 hours a week and you still have to choose between food or clothes or healthcare. Then if you have kids you have to find a way to pay for all their needs, which means you work two and three jobs. When is there time to go to night school to get a high school diploma, college degree, or trade certificate? They know how to work, but if they can get the same amount of money for doing nothing -and with no education- then I don't blame them for choosing welfare. 

It would be better for the government to give them payouts on the condition they finish some kind of schooling. But in this country anyway, the people in power don't think poor people are worth the effort or expense. Better to just blame them for societies problems, tho the current financial crisis speaks to otherwise.


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## 1300 Class (Apr 5, 2009)

I agree with you and yes, education does play a role. And yes, getting people into either a trade or study in return for recieving the dole is as good idea as having them work for it in some fashion. I'm not against that. Indeed we have that here, called Aus-Study, which helps people studying or in an apprecenticship who only work casual or are unable to work. 

I'm not against Welfare when its needed to help, I'm against it being a lifestyle choice.


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## olwen (Apr 5, 2009)

Australian Lord said:


> I agree with you and yes, education does play a role. And yes, getting people into either a trade or study in return for recieving the dole is as good idea as having them work for it in some fashion. I'm not against that. Indeed we have that here, called Aus-Study, which helps people studying or in an apprecenticship who only work casual or are unable to work.
> 
> I'm not against Welfare when its needed to help, I'm against it being a lifestyle choice.



I see what you're saying. I think it's the idea of it being a choice that bothers me. It seems to me as tho they don't have much of a choice. I have a hard time with the idea that someone with an education would choose to go on welfare.


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## mergirl (Apr 6, 2009)

Australian Lord said:


> That is false.
> 
> If they do get the same amount of money from either, then they should be working and creating wealth, not sapping it away! Thus instead of living off the state, there are now more resources thus still available for distribution in other forms. So because it 'just happens' we should just say its ok and bury our heads in the sand?
> 
> .



It is true. 
I'm not saying what people 'should' do... i'm telling you what actually happens in many of the 'dole as a lifestyle' cases here. I studied social psychology for a year and i have a couple of friends who work in social work who actually see this happening every day. Right. People 'should' be creating wealth by working and not just sapping it away. This is why its important to understand why people are not. The people burying their heads in the sand are the ones just getting angry and not looking at the social, psychological and ecconomical factors that contribute to this 'way of life'. You can bang your fists into the air forever and nothing will change these fundimental things are looked at. 
For example;You could work 40 or more hours a week minimum wage, find it difficult to see your children or persue any sort of interests other than work or chose to be on benifits, get your taxes and housing paid. The other option is to persue an education of course but some people might not have the confidence or chances to do so. 
I agree with Olwen when she said NO-one who is educated to a standard where they could get a decent job would 'chose' to be on benifits. I think you need to look more closely at some of the social reasons for unemployment or chosing to not work instead of spouting the same old falicy that "lazy people are using all my taxes!"


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## 1300 Class (Apr 6, 2009)

> The other option is to persue an education of course but some people might not have the confidence or chances to do so.


Everybody can do something, can be taught to do something. There is no limit to what a person can achieve if they believe it is within their means. Not everybody is going to have degrees, or become high earners, famous or this, that there or the other thing. Everybody is capable of something, some skill or trade that can contribute. If people put their mind to it, the individual spirit can triumph, there is no limit to the possibilities. 

Do you oppose work for the dole schemes? To build confidence, work ethic and get them up and out of the house, surely not?


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## mergirl (Apr 6, 2009)

Australian Lord said:


> Everybody can do something, can be taught to do something. There is no limit to what a person can achieve if they believe it is within their means. Not everybody is going to have degrees, or become high earners, famous or this, that there or the other thing. Everybody is capable of something, some skill or trade that can contribute. If people put their mind to it, the individual spirit can triumph, there is no limit to the possibilities.
> 
> Do you oppose work for the dole schemes? To build confidence, work ethic and get them up and out of the house, surely not?


Was that a rhetorical question?
I'm not against the schemes that the dole set up which are supposed to build confidence, work ethics and get them out the house. Though i belive confidence can be shattered when the course is finished and there is still no work available, or as i have said before the work is so low paid that people cant afford child care and they would be better off on the dole. Work ethics dont mean shit when you dont have any work you can go to. 
One of the reasons the government set up these schemes is because, when people are on them they are not counted as being unemployed, hence they can say unemployment is down. There are just some people who are habitually unemployable and its usually because they dont want to be employed, for all the reasons i stated before. I dont think people have to be 'high earners, have degrees, or 'be famous!?' before they can be of value, in an ecconomical way, to society but in order for people to earn enough money to make it worth their while to work, they usually have to have 'proper' training (not just pep talks from people with a svq in social education at their local brew office). This would be useful, but its not often that people have the oppertunities to recieve training like this. Also, i think you are seing social 'worth' in very ecconomical terms which i really dont agree with. For example, i have a friend who has M.s and she often can't work because of it, so, she volenteers with a charity shop for a few days a week when she can. I think this is of equal value than if she went out to work for money. I think if people would struggle working full time because of ecconomic, child care issues, then they could volenteer for a charitable organisation for a couple fo days a week. Hey, perhaps even some people on the dole could offer to do some free child care so that others could do some charity work!? Who knows?. Anyway, i think seeing people in terms of their ecconomic value is shallow and doesnt take into account personal and social situations or other ways in which a human can have 'value' to a society even when they dont contribute to the ecconomy in the ways you are talking about.


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