# What comes first? Plot or characters?



## Cylon_bob (Aug 15, 2012)

This is semi-sorta similar to the "plot or gain" thread, but it's about the writing process itself, not so much the story 

When you're laying out a plan for a story, do you start with a set, fully-laid-out idea of what will happen, or do you develop the characters and figure it out from there?

Obviously you have to have some kind of rough plotline set out, but I find it's easier to set up and plan out a complete, multi-installment story if I start with the characters and let them tell me the details of the story. I actually am taking an entire document and making notes on each of the characters to help me remember the details that AREN'T based on someone in particular that I know.

I haven't posted the endings of either of the two stories I've finished, but I've gotten them mostly written and fully planned, so it shouldn't be long before they're out there. There's another round of edits I'm planning to run them through.

But I want to hear about you. Is character development as important to your writing process as it is to me? Or do you let the plot determine the personalities?


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## Tad (Aug 15, 2012)

Given how little I post in the way of stories anymore Im probably not going to give the most useful of responses, but Ill give it anyway.

Im terrible about actually finishing longer stories, which is (dis) credit to the fact that I start with characters, a situation, and usually some vague sense of a theme I want to explore. Then I explore the characters and theme through writing, often with only a hazy idea of how it is all going to work out. If youve ever tried to read Lewis Carols other long work of fiction, Bruno and Sylvie, youll have an idea how poor of an idea writing without knowing where you are going can be. Given that Lewis Carol was an inventive genius and Im..not, I really shouldnt handicap myself in this way, but it seems the only way that I can identify where Im going. 

It is not that Im writing completely blind.well maybe it is, in that I cant see or put into words what the end point is, it is more something that I can feel. I have to kind of grope my way there, often deciding that Ive written my way off course such that I have to go back and delete or re-write major sections. I often along the way realize that there is more than one story that I really want to tell, and they are confusing each other, so then I have to mentally disentangle them; in practice that typically means starting a new story to anchor one of those threads so that the existing story can follow the other.

On the other hand, shorter stories often come to me as an essentially complete story arc. A few bits may fill in as I write, and the characters are developed (to the degree that they are developed) to support the story arc. Those are easy and fun to write. However there seem to be a limited number of types of story arcs that come to me, and I've written one or two stories in most of them already, so I haven't bothered writing more, not wanting to re-tell the same basic story repeatedly (not that this is a horrible thing, just not something I want to do).


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## StrugglingWriter (Aug 15, 2012)

I find that if my writing is planned too far in advance, I lose interest in writing it.

Something's Gotta Give started with a particular inspiration, which I'll reveal after that monstrosity is completed. So I knew where it was going from the start, and I knew the start point, and I knew who I wanted Kelly to be when she started. That's about it. How I'd get there has been a mystery. Many of the plot twists, introductions of new characters, and relationships between the characters have been serendipitous--so much so that there are some inconsistencies in the story line as it has unfolded. For example, I didn't initially plan for Kelly's mother to be fat. I didn't plan for Caleb and Gail to have a history. The idea to introduce Wade serves some necessary plot elements, but the idea for him came after a picture I saw. Each character arrived as I thought about what elements I would need to make it all believable--and, because Kelly is a social person, which means lots of contacts. So in lots of ways, the plot came first and the characters second, but only by means of a rough outline.

Kelly is the typical heroine for most weight gain stories: young, beautiful, blonde, ex-cheerleader. That's kind of a yawner for character development and a line we've seen time and time again. The only thing making her character development interesting to me is the influence from the characters around her. As long as this story is, I've indulged very little beyond the necessary information to put all those pieces together and give it some substance. Without those characters, all I'd have is just another contrived plot about a cheerleader getting fat. Film at 11. *yawn*

I find the narrator's character arc (or, debateably lack of one) in What I'd Like to Say... (http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21010) much more compelling. The other characters are more incidental, the weight gain and surrender to appetite more central, and the plot straightforward. I did not start the narrative expecting sexual assault (the scene that had it banned to the Unique Special Interests archive--as if it were an interest!), and the final plot twist didn't occur to me until almost before I wrote it. I find that story fairly elegant and am delighted any time I re-read it by how good a job I think I did.

So there you have it. I noticed that Tad's answer and mine both related similarly to pieces of different length. Incidentally, A Southern Story is almost entirely about character, and it's a hot, compelling read.


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## Imp (Aug 17, 2012)

StrugglingWriter said:


> I find the narrator's character arc (or, debateably lack of one) in What I'd Like to Say... (http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21010) much more compelling. The other characters are more incidental, the weight gain and surrender to appetite more central, and the plot straightforward. I did not start the narrative expecting sexual assault (the scene that had it banned to the Unique Special Interests archive--as if it were an interest!), and the final plot twist didn't occur to me until almost before I wrote it. I find that story fairly elegant and am delighted any time I re-read it by how good a job I think I did.



By the way, that's the edited version of the story that I have, not the shoddily edited thing that got posted one bit at a time here.


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## zxc098 (Aug 18, 2012)

This is my process:

1: The idea, what is it generally going to be about. Is it a BHM or BBW storey.

2: The setting - very important where does it take place, Restaurant, cafe, gym, kitchen etc...

3: Now the characters. Are they nice or mean. What do they look like, are they already chubby to start with or thin and fit. How fat should they end up?

4: Come up with a really good beginning, something that will pull the reader in and want to read more.

5: Develop the plot and add characters and scenarios / situations as they come to you in your head.

6: Think of a good ending and hope like hell you will see your story through to the end.


At the moment i am working on 3 different stories, all good, all with different themes.

Thing is when I get tired of writing one story I can just switch to the next and when I get tired of that I go back to the first one until they are all finished.


With Tank Ass my original idea was to create a charter with a huge butt, one that would be about squishing and sitting.

However as the story progressed and the readers commented on how much they liked the characters and wanted to see more of certain things i began to flesh out the story, adding in arcs i never intended on. Hence the story became very long. btw its still not finished just on hold.

With Arrogant pig to just pig which is finished i had it more laid out from start to finish, was a mission to finish writing it as I knew what would happen which sometimes doesn't make it that fun to write.


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## Cylon_bob (Aug 22, 2012)

zxc098 said:


> 1: The idea, what is it generally going to be about. Is it a BHM or BBW storey.
> 
> 2: The setting - very important where does it take place, Restaurant, cafe, gym, kitchen etc...
> 
> ...



Thanks for that

So you start with the setting? I really haven't put to incredibly much thought into settings, beyond just really general, non-specific areas, like with Southern Story, just 'A southern town, similar to where I live' or 'an apartment complex.' Keep it simple, you know?
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I'm wrapping up the two main stories I'm working on soon, so I don't have to deal with overly-long stories. Because I've thought about the characters so much, and with the format I've chosen, I could probably keep going on both of them indefinitely, but no, I'd rather move on to new projects.
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StrugglingWriter, to clarify, I'm not making in any way detailed plans, just little notes like, 'so and so' will do 'X' after such and such does Y' and when I'm writing I do not take those plans as gospel, I still feel free to change them spur of the moment, so long as they still fit the character's personality. It just helps me feel like I can do subtle bits of foreshadowing.
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I'm on the 'plot' side of the Plot v. Gain debate obviously, though I don't aim for overly complex plots. Or complex plots at all.


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## stuffedbellylover (Aug 24, 2012)

Hi!

As a writer myself (even if I haven´t published a thing in 2 years) I think it depends on... Sometimes you have a straight kind of frame you want to go and you develop the characters by writting it all down... but sometime you also feel the need to develop the characters at first and develop a certain plot afterwards...

I have done both ways so far to say... so I don´t think there is a right or wrong way... it just varies from author to author or even story to story...

Just my thoughts, folks!

Best wishes,

Chris


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## maltesefalcon (Aug 25, 2012)

I develop the characters of course and figure out a basic story outline.
Then I work on the _ending_. Its always the most important part.

The rest of the story should complement and steer toward it.
Once you have a good ending, you will know when the story has all the components required and it will be easier to stop and publish it.

IMHO there are a few abandoned stories on this website that may have been completed, had this route been taken.


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## StrugglingWriter (Aug 27, 2012)

maltesefalcon said:


> IMHO there are a few abandoned stories on this website that may have been completed, had this route been taken.



That kind of goes full circle to the OP's question, too. Because, really, what's the ending to these stories? Person is fat. That's a yawner. So, a story worth reading needs one of two things: an interesting development in the character, or an interesting resolution in the plot. I'm betting many of the abandoned stories are stories that someone wrote because they thought weight gain was hot. Then they realized there's only so much description of that before it becomes repetitive and the, "Oh, someone got fat" staple becomes all that's left.


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## Tad (Aug 27, 2012)

StrugglingWriter said:


> That kind of goes full circle to the OP's question, too. Because, really, what's the ending to these stories? Person is fat. That's a yawner. So, a story worth reading needs one of two things: an interesting development in the character, or an interesting resolution in the plot. I'm betting many of the abandoned stories are stories that someone wrote because they thought weight gain was hot. Then they realized there's only so much description of that before it becomes repetitive and the, "Oh, someone got fat" staple becomes all that's left.



Also in many cases the story starts where the character starts to get fat--for whatever reason--and all they leave themselves is the process of getting fat. To me, in many cases, the key part in the story is actually the point where it becomes inevitable that they will get fat....the rest is icing on the cake--delicious, but you only want so much of it.


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## agouderia (Aug 27, 2012)

StrugglingWriter said:


> That kind of goes full circle to the OP's question, too. Because, really, what's the ending to these stories? Person is fat. That's a yawner. So, a story worth reading needs one of two things: an interesting development in the character, or an interesting resolution in the plot. I'm betting many of the abandoned stories are stories that someone wrote because they thought weight gain was hot. Then they realized there's only so much description of that before it becomes repetitive and the, "Oh, someone got fat" staple becomes all that's left.



I definitely agree.

For my writing it all starts with the character(s) - the one or two protagonists mostly appear in my head and start telling me their story, an initial scene from their lives, giving me an idea of the setting and what to do with it.

What triggers that varies totally, from an - often minor - personal incident, meeting some people, reading an article or even a very short video clip (I got the idea for '525' from a 45 second clip on an economics news show which featured a young baker who had gotten very fat after he had inherited the bakery).

In the strict sense, I probably write more fat than weight gain fiction - because the characters do gain weight, but that's not the main point of the plot. It's more how their weight/being fat affects their lives, personalities, professional development, relationships, etc. - and it's that development which pans out into the actual story.

After getting to know my characters, I flesh them out a little, think of a few supporting roles and do a rough sketch of the plot run to the ending; in some cases I'm written the first and second as well as the last chapter in the initial conceptualizing phase.


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## Tad (Aug 28, 2012)

Something I was thinking about on the way home from work yesterday.....long before I tried to write fiction, I spent a lot of time playing pen-and-paper role playing games (Dungeons and Dragons and all those games that followed it). I created a lot of characters, and in some cases even had multiple pages of back-story written up for them before playing them. Then you'd get into the game and find out what happens next.

I think that may be part of the genesis of my worst writing habit, which is coming up with characters I'm interested in, then just starting to write their story to find out what happens next. That is, trying to feel my way through the story organically, rather than putting in a structure to guide its growth.

In other words, I really should treat my stories more like I treat my tomato plants, I suppose.


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## Blame Picasso (Aug 29, 2012)

Everyone's processes are very interesting. I am no stranger to the discard room, I often get inspiration from a character or a situation and then as anyone who has read my version of those stories knows I illustrate and expand on the characters. I give them lives, history, hobbies, and careers. 

In my original stories I think I usually begin with a character. "The Girl On the Beach' literally started as I was sitting on the beach and a gorgeous, plump redhead in a gray bikini walked by me into the water. I watched her for the rest of the day and when I got home I started writing about her.

I've read a few posts by writers who lose their way in long stories and then get bored. I am extremely guilty of that although I managed to finish 'Angie' and most recently 'Cherry Forever' after long hiatus'. I have tried writing outlines to stories but that doesn't work for me, I may have an idea of where a story will end from the moment I begin typing. 'Larger Every Day' is an example of knowing the ending and working towards it, but often, I don't know what is really going to happen in most of my stories until it flows on to the screen.


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## maltesefalcon (Aug 30, 2012)

While I would agree that WG stories have an inevitable plot _cycle_ due to the nature of the story I would disagree the end is a forgone conclusion.

I realized the potential trap right away and have tried to craft my work as a _story_ first and foremost that has a wg theme.

None of us is writing masterpieces, (who are we kidding?) but the better tales here have character development, coherant plot, continuity and proper grammar and punctuation.

In other words, both interesting, non-repetitive and readable.

If that sounds like a no-brainer check out some of the writing on Fantasy Feeder. The bar is set pretty low there imho.


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## StrugglingWriter (Aug 30, 2012)

maltesefalcon said:


> None of us is writing masterpieces, (who are we kidding?) but the better tales here have character development, coherant plot, continuity and proper grammar and punctuation.



I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure that _I'm_ writing a masterpiece.:bow:


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