# moral dilema



## phelan4022 (Sep 18, 2015)

This is an absurdly long and convoluted story, but essentially, a dear friend of mine who has been more than a friend in the past is a fetish model, a feedee, and she is facing tremendous health risks directly attributable to her weight gain. I had to stop talking to her, and had to cease a romantic relationship with her, because she was not making choices to save her life and I couldn't watch her die for an attraction I shared, but was willing to cease in order to pursue her health. She was pursuing another man as well, another feeder, but one who did not share my reservations about her health. I realized that I could not help her if she did not want to get better. I keep in touch with mutual friends that share my concern but I refrain from asking about her too much, except in the most generalized questions about her health and well being.

She had been very inactive in modeling, because of her health, but she recently started posting updates again, with other models, etc. and I looked at one out of morbid curiosity. She is the same weight or perhaps even bigger. If I were not partial to very exact medical information, I might be able to hope that she had beaten her health issues and was able to pursue her attractions safely. However, her health issues will only be further complicated by her weight remaining the same or by gaining.

Ultimately, I know that it is her life and the responsibility for her health is not mine, but I feel so... frustrated that I cannot at least try to reach out to her close friends and family as a means to maybe trigger some kind of an intervention. Do I maintain my distance and leave her to her choices or should I make some kind of attempt to reason with her, etc. I honestly don't know what to do, I am a firm believer in personal responsibility, but I love this woman and I do not want to see her die. I'm not sure there is a good answer to this but maybe I can get some feedback that will help. Please, if you have anything to offer, I'm all ears.


----------



## loopytheone (Sep 18, 2015)

From the sounds of it, you have already discussed this with her and told her about your concerns and she has ignored you. The chances are that if she has ignored you about this once, nothing else you could say would have any impact on her decision making. 

As much as it must be awful to watch, if she has pulled away from you and ignored or disregarded your warnings then there isn't anything else you can do. It is her life to lead, as she pleases, even if you don't agree with her choices.


----------



## agouderia (Sep 18, 2015)

Phelan - you don't have a moral dilemma anymore, because of this....



phelan4022 said:


> Ultimately, I know that it is her life and the responsibility for her health is not mine, ... I am a firm believer in personal responsibility


 
You've addressed the issue as a friend - that's all you can do. 

Interventions work only

a) in movies & on TV when they're scripted (reality) and not actual real life 

b) when the target person of the intervention has him/herself at least halfway come to the realization that something needs to be done about the issue and is willing to do his/her part. Otherwise anything said, no matter how drastic will fall on deaf ears.

This is the painful and frustrating experience you seem to have already made. 


phelan4022 said:


> I realized that I could not help her if she did not want to get better.


 
Having someone else do the intervention won't change that until she is open to a realistic assessment of the situation herself. 

Most of us run into this dilemma sooner or later in life, when we see someone we care harming themselves - and can't do anything about it. I had that experience with a university room mate who was an alcoholic. 

Not to be cynical - but c'est la vie.


----------



## Tad (Sep 18, 2015)

All I can think of is sending her a note (and if you have a real mail address then maybe do it that way, on a nice card?), saying you still think of her and care about her, that you know she gets to make her own choices, but that if she ever wants to talk about changing some of her choices that you will always be willing to talk about that, with no judgement involved. Or something like that.

Basically just in case she ever feels trapped by her past choices that you make it clear that there is still a route open to the path not taken. 

Probably she doesn't take you up on your offer, but at least you'll know that you've made it. Just knowing that the option, and the support, is there may be the most that you can do for her.

Meanwhile, best of luck in wrestling with your own feelings.


----------



## Dr. Feelgood (Sep 18, 2015)

Basically, I agree with Tad: send her a note, let her know you think of her and value her friendship. I'd leave out the preachy stuff, though; she already knows how you feel, because you've made it very clear to her. Besides, your concern for her is not predicated on whether or not she follows your advice. Just keep in touch and be there for her. It's a hell of a thing to watch someone you love dancing on the edge of a cliff, but sometimes you just gotta let them dance.


----------



## phelan4022 (Sep 19, 2015)

Thanks all. These are the conclusions I reached myself. I guess hearing them from other people makes it a little bit less bitter to swallow, a little, but not much.


----------



## Blockierer (Sep 20, 2015)

phelan4022 said:


> ....
> She had been very inactive in modeling, because of her health, but she recently started posting updates again, with other models, etc. and I looked at one out of morbid curiosity. ....


Maybe she needs to earn money. I noticed that many of the paysite model are gaining. Is it really worth to ruin one's health for money?


----------



## gangstadawg (Sep 20, 2015)

Blockierer said:


> Maybe she needs to earn money. I noticed that many of the paysite model are gaining. Is it really worth to ruin one's health for money?


some are also using the loot earned to get WLS.


----------



## choudhury (Sep 21, 2015)

Blockierer said:


> Maybe she needs to earn money. I noticed that many of the paysite model are gaining. Is it really worth to ruin one's health for money?



Yow, this hits close to the bone, doesn't it? Paysite models are 'gaining,' but why? Presumably, because _that's where the demand is_. That's what the customer wants. Speaking for myself, I sure do enjoy weight gain (even if I don't happen to be into the 'feeder' scene per se, preferring partners whose gain, if it occurs, 'just happens naturally'). But obviously, past a certain point, it becomes unhealthy or at least very risky - right? So consumers of these sites are implicated in potentially self-destructive activity by the models.

The counter, of course, is that it's a purely voluntary transaction. No different from paying someone to pursue any other risky activity for our enjoyment, which we do all the time (e.g., paid attendance at dangerous contact sports, etc.).

In the end, this is a variant of the old-as-the-hills debate around love for SSBWs, and especially feedees, more generally. Maybe it's more 'ethical' to be feeder to a willing partner who you love, than to just pay someone to do be fed and gain weight. But no matter how you slice it, it's fraught terrain.


----------



## supersizebbw (Sep 22, 2015)

Unfortunately in situations like these only she would have to be the one to want to change. Other than letting her know you'll be there to support her, there isn't much else you can do for now except hope that she makes the decision to better her health before it's too late. You've been a good friend to her and done you're best.


----------



## Archetypus (Sep 24, 2015)

You turned your back on a problem that you helped create & now you want to insinuate yourself into someone else' private affairs in order to mollify your own guilty conscience about being a shitty friend? Is that about the size of it?

The oblivious hypocrisy of the feeder community consistently fucking baffles me.

Try this, Phelan: stop letting your feeder tendencies bleed over into a serious matter by stripping her of her agency & passive-aggressively dictating the course of someone else' decision making process. Nothing but negativity can result from your interference, as evidenced by her current situation. No amount of self-important backpedaling is going to prevent _anyone_ from dying, ever - not even someone you care about. If you love her as you claim to, then simply _love her_.


----------



## lucca23v2 (Sep 24, 2015)

Archetypus said:


> You turned your back on a problem that you helped create & now you want to insinuate yourself into someone else' private affairs in order to mollify your own guilty conscience about being a shitty friend? Is that about the size of it?
> 
> The oblivious hypocrisy of the feeder community consistently fucking baffles me.
> 
> Try this, Phelan: stop letting your feeder tendencies bleed over into a serious matter by stripping her of her agency & passive-aggressively dictating the course of someone else' decision making process. Nothing but negativity can result from your interference, as evidenced by her current situation. No amount of self-important backpedaling is going to prevent _anyone_ from dying, ever - not even someone you care about. If you love her as you claim to, then simply _love her_.



Did you full read what was written or did you just read some things and filled in the rest with your obvious problem with feeders?



phelan4022 said:


> I had to stop talking to her, and had to cease a romantic relationship with her, because she was not making choices to save her life and I couldn't watch her die for an attraction I shared, but was willing to cease in order to pursue her health.



this is what he wrote, that he could not watch her die from an *attraction he shared*, not that he caused it.

Everyone is so damn sensitive these days. Maybe if we get out of our own heads and hurts and read what people write without trying to imbue our own hurts and feelings and biases to what others post, maybe then there can be real discussions with actual ways to help or maybe just be an ear (or in this case eyes) to lean on and just talk things out.

As to your feeder dislike/hate:

Just as an aside, not all feeders are bad. Yes there are some who don't care about the other persons health, but many of them do and actively curb their fetish. You can not blame the feeder for everything. These are adult women/men who have the full capability to say no.


----------



## Archetypus (Sep 24, 2015)

Hi, Lucca.

Yes, I made sure I read it all. He said he was involved with her romantically & then ceased doing what he was doing, which implies he had engaged in the behavior up to that point. I didn't say he caused it, just that he helped create it by what I am assuming was initially encouraging it. It's possible I assumed too much or misinterpreted something. 

I don't really have a problem with the idea of feedism itself, as long as the participants are fully engaged with reality & the consequences of their behavior. Of course many are & as you pointed out they approach their attraction with the requisite responsibility, as should anyone who participates in a potentially life-threatening kink. And good on them. But I didn't see that here.

I didn't really say anything that others before hadn't already said, but I did make a conscious decision to say it in a different way. It may not be the emotionally fulfilling ears & eyes drum-circle technique you & he had hoped for, but since that had been done already I didn't see anything wrong with taking the logical course and pointing out the flaws in his reasoning - which in a perfect world, is an argument that can & should coexist with the 10 other "aw shucks you're a swell guy" responses prior to my own.

Lucca, I don't hate anyone. But I do hate irresponsibility, avoidance & obliviousness in all it's forms, especially when someone else' life is at stake.


----------



## dwesterny (Sep 24, 2015)

Archetypus, let me first say I appreciate your intensity and humor. I have read some of your old posts and often in secret given a big dumb grin and thumbs up at what you have said.

The feeder community can be creepy as fuck. I agree and have said it myself on the boards. That being said I have a hard time judging others especially when I know I've taken solace in places and things I am not proud of and many times I've chosen not to make a decison. Many people are amazingly good at adapting to shit circumstances and just trudging on as best they can. I guess the idea of civilization and its discontent goes a long way with me in these questions. We have instincts and tendencies that are at odds with the soft cushy world we live in now. Aggression, feeding tendency to fatness all these things seems to me remnants of a tougher environment now causing problems. Does that excuse behavior, no. Though with me explanation counts for a lot. Maybe I'm just full of shit and rambling.


----------



## phelan4022 (Sep 25, 2015)

Archetypus said:


> Hi, Lucca.
> 
> Yes, I made sure I read it all. He said he was involved with her romantically & then ceased doing what he was doing, which implies he had engaged in the behavior up to that point. I didn't say he caused it, just that he helped create it by what I am assuming was initially encouraging it. It's possible I assumed too much or misinterpreted something.
> 
> ...



Well, you know what they say about assumptions. I was never her feeder. We fell in love from afar and over years of talking. I fully admit to an attraction to feeding, but my own moral boundaries have kept me from engaging in it, in the past for reasons of shame and in the present for health concerns. I refuse to be a part of something destructive for the sake of my sexual gratification. Sex is not worth a life, it isn't that important.

I actually agree with you, I do hate irresponsibility, avoidance & obliviousness in all it's forms, especially when someone else' life is at stake. The life at stake was hers and I could not condone her irresponsibility with her health, her avoidance of the fact that her fetish was and is killing her and her obliviousness to her own responsibility for that. I am a trained and educated sports and nutritional therapist, I wrote her a 16 page nutrition and exercise plan to specifically address each health issue. I didn't stop loving her, I still love her but she didn't want to live. Entirely apart from self-destructive weight gain, she would play Russian Roulette by taking far too many of her prescription psychotropic meds, tell me she didn't know if she wanted to wake up then hang up her phone or get off Skype and not reply. There comes a point where trying to help someone becomes enabling them and I chose to stop it when I felt it was reaching that. I'm not looking for anew emotional justification for my part in a destructive fetish, I was genuinely seeking options for an entirely untenable situation apart from the ones I reached. But there is no good solution.

Thanks to everyone with positive feedback.


----------



## Azrael (Sep 26, 2015)

To start off, this is how feederism often work.
People gain and many of them have their limits and usually those limits will be discussed or mentioned about. Sometimes, people have different limits. A feeder might have a higher limit or a feedee might have a higher limit.

In the instance where the limits are reached either the feeder gets used to it or the relationship ends, at least in the healthy feederism relationships.

Sometimes there is health issues thrown into the mix of this. When there's health issues thrown into the mix if the feedee is concerned about that then they will stop but if they aren't then they very well may continue.

Sometimes it's enough to make partners break up but at the end of the day that's how the cookie crumbles, especially with the more extreme ends of feederism.

As for the whole Russian roulette with drugs, that's definitely something to see a therapist about.

As for the rest of the post...

People are people and they will do what they do. Between the choice of sexual repression with a higher life expectancy or sexual expression with a lower life expectancy a number will choose the latter, tough luck.

What I will stress though is that she may want to consider seeing a therapist but as they say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

You did your best that's all you can do.


----------



## Ho Ho Tai (Oct 29, 2015)

phelan4022 said:


> This is an absurdly long and convoluted story, but essentially, a dear friend of mine who has been more than a friend in the past is a fetish model, a feedee, and she is facing tremendous health risks directly attributable to her weight gain. I had to stop talking to her, and had to cease a romantic relationship with her, because she was not making choices to save her life and I couldn't watch her die for an attraction I shared, but was willing to cease in order to pursue her health. She was pursuing another man as well, another feeder, but one who did not share my reservations about her health. I realized that I could not help her if she did not want to get better. I keep in touch with mutual friends that share my concern but I refrain from asking about her too much, except in the most generalized questions about her health and well being.
> 
> She had been very inactive in modeling, because of her health, but she recently started posting updates again, with other models, etc. and I looked at one out of morbid curiosity. She is the same weight or perhaps even bigger. If I were not partial to very exact medical information, I might be able to hope that she had beaten her health issues and was able to pursue her attractions safely. However, her health issues will only be further complicated by her weight remaining the same or by gaining.
> 
> Ultimately, I know that it is her life and the responsibility for her health is not mine, but I feel so... frustrated that I cannot at least try to reach out to her close friends and family as a means to maybe trigger some kind of an intervention. Do I maintain my distance and leave her to her choices or should I make some kind of attempt to reason with her, etc. I honestly don't know what to do, I am a firm believer in personal responsibility, but I love this woman and I do not want to see her die. I'm not sure there is a good answer to this but maybe I can get some feedback that will help. Please, if you have anything to offer, I'm all ears.



This area of the board is largely unexplored territory for me. I was looking for an appropriate place to express a thought and I found much more. Phalen's very well expressed dilemma applies in other areas of life also. We all know people whom we have come to love whose lives seem to be heading way off the track. We see a train wreck in the making but feel powerless to stop it. I'm sure that many of us have felt this way about a child who is entering maturity and adulthood, but sooner or later, you have to take the training wheels off the bike, let them figure it out, and just watch.

In my case the issue is not one of feederism, nor is it about my offspring (and their offspring). They are all geniuses, of course, and either have successful careers or will soon be entering them.

Ours concerns a housekeeper we have engaged for nearly ten years, a woman of foreign birth (and still naive re: the US culture), nearing forty years of age - just the age to be the caboose of my family. She has become more like a daughter and is certainly a friend. She has made a number of choices over which we agonize and seems to be heading for the streets. If she really were our daughter, we would always be ready to take her in, as we would our other children. But she isn't quite this and isn't quite that. We can guide, we can help financially to a degree, but we can't pretend.

I'm sorry if this seems inappropriate. It's not what I meant to write. I continue with that, below.

This started as a PM to someone on these boards. I decided to share it with the community at large, if I could find an appropriate venue.

I don't think that a predilection for plump women is a learned trait. I think that the Hollywood slimness model is crammed into our heads at an early age - until we remember our ancestral roots. When our ancestors depended on what they could catch, prepare, sew, et c., men hunted but women did almost everything else. Women worked much harder than most men do now, from just a few hundred years ago to the dim reaches of past history. Women were expected to become plump since this ensured survival in hard times and harsh climates. That plumpness was money in the bank and permitted them to have and raise children while doing all the 'womens' work'. Plumpness meant survival of the family, of the community, and (through children) the future of the race. A plump woman and a hard, tough man were signs of a successful economic unit.

I know that I had a taste for plumpness as early as 6 or 8 y.o., though I didn't associate it with this deeper meaning until adulthood. All it takes is for guys to return to their ancestral roots is to open their eyes a bit wider, and hold out their arms a bit wider for a hug.


----------

