# A Very Sad News Story



## bigmac (Sep 18, 2010)

I thought about posting this incredibly sad story in the "Death and Such" thread but that thread seems to have lost its focus. 

The linked article is a great example of how the world can be a much more dangerous place if you're super-sized.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ger-dies-firefighters-carry-burning-home.html

It's also an example of how the world is much more dangerous if you're poor.


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## imfree (Sep 18, 2010)

Indeed, Bigmac, very sad.


Getting incapacitated
large people out of
structures is a harsh
reality of ours, the
supersized. They'll 
have to cut this 
room open to get me
out if I die back here.


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## AnnMarie (Sep 18, 2010)

Only comment I saw that rang true and real: 



> People are living without water and electricity in 2010. America seriously needs to stop meddling in overseas affairs and update poverty stricken America. They waste billions on useless wars and their own live in worse conditions than in the Third World. They simply do not care its a hopeless society. RIP Pretty Lady, America has failed you.
> 
> ​




What a beautiful girl, and a horrible, horrible tragedy. No blame to go around that I see, other than that if they'd had power in the home perhaps there wouldn't have been a lit candle to tip over. But the firefighters tried, and hopefully this will raise awareness about bariatric devices that could have helped them raise her up and out.


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## wrestlingguy (Sep 18, 2010)

Here's the same story from an American website:
http://www.thisis50.com/profiles/blog/show?id=784568%3ABlogPost%3A21821372&xg_source=activity&page=1#comments

More amazing is some of the comments that were made in response to this news story.



> "that's sad they should got her sum help with her weight gastric bypass or sumthin if I had a child that obese I would had got her help that's like sittn back & lettn them kill themself! Real f*** up!"
> 
> "the epitome of gluttony"
> 
> ...


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## blubberismanly (Sep 18, 2010)

Maybe I'm being dense here, but how does a poor kid grow to over 500 lbs? I've been poor all my life and was homeless off and on for most of my adolescence. Given the conditions she was living in, I doubt there was enough money in the household to feed her that much. People blame the weight alone for her death...I have to wonder of there was some other issue that led to the weight, like lymph edema, caused by a more serious condition. I would be interested in the full coroner's report, but they will probably never release it.


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## Theresa48 (Sep 18, 2010)

Wow...a lot of hate in this world. Very sad. (re: comments quoted by wrestlingguy)


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## CleverBomb (Sep 19, 2010)

blubberismanly said:


> Maybe I'm being dense here, but how does a poor kid grow to over 500 lbs? I've been poor all my life and was homeless off and on for most of my adolescence. Given the conditions she was living in, I doubt there was enough money in the household to feed her that much. People blame the weight alone for her death...I have to wonder of there was some other issue that led to the weight, like lymph edema, caused by a more serious condition. I would be interested in the full coroner's report, but they will probably never release it.


Not having actually read the article, I'll answer your comment on its own:
Eating badly is cheaper than eating well. 
Orange soda is cheaper than orange juice.
Depending on the area, it may be very difficult to get fresh fruits and vegetables without having a car available. Many disadvantaged areas don't have grocery stores, just convenience stores. 
Fast food is cheap, and if you don't have utilities (as seems to have been the case in the referenced incident) it's pretty much the only way to have a hot meal. Also, without electricity, anything that needs refrigeration (milk, meats,etc) has to be bought in small enough quantities to be used immediately. 
And not everyone has good role models or education to know how to select and cook healthy foods. And, if working multiple low-paying jobs to make ends meet, the time to cook them.

-Rusty


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## blubberismanly (Sep 19, 2010)

I understand all of that, but I had a very different experience when I was homeless. Food was my main expense, but I had almost no money whatsoever to spend on it. When I did have enough for a meal, I found out quickly that junk food was actually more expensive than healthy stuff. That may just vary on location, but I could always afford an apple before a candy bar. Given that the conditions described aren't far separated from being homeless, I would assume the basic situation would be very similar.


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## cinnamitch (Sep 19, 2010)

blubberismanly said:


> I understand all of that, but I had a very different experience when I was homeless. Food was my main expense, but I had almost no money whatsoever to spend on it. When I did have enough for a meal, I found out quickly that junk food was actually more expensive than healthy stuff. That may just vary on location, but I could always afford an apple before a candy bar. Given that the conditions described aren't far separated from being homeless, I would assume the basic situation would be very similar.



Oh my with foodstamps you can go to the day old bread place and stock up on bread, cinnamon rolls, and all that good stuff. Gravy on a cheap can of biscuits is filling and fattening. Bologna is cheap so is fake cheese. You can get store brand 2 liters of pop cheaper than you can get juice . You can buy canned fruit packed in syrup cheaper and feed all the family cheaper than you can get 4 apples. Corn flakes and sugar makes cheap breakfast. Ramen noodles are cheap and eat them everyday and watch you gain weight. Pasta, beans, Potatoes, those are the staples of the poor mans diet. It is sad but it is often the way it is with poor folks. You do the best you can with what you have and to make it taste better sometimes it ends up not being so healthy. Not the greatest choices I know but with some it is all they have ever known.


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## thirtiesgirl (Sep 19, 2010)

blubberismanly said:


> I understand all of that, but I had a very different experience when I was homeless. Food was my main expense, but I had almost no money whatsoever to spend on it. When I did have enough for a meal, I found out quickly that junk food was actually more expensive than healthy stuff. That may just vary on location, but I could always afford an apple before a candy bar. Given that the conditions described aren't far separated from being homeless, I would assume the basic situation would be very similar.



Different parts of the world don't always have such easy access to fresh fruit and vegetables. Thusly, they're more expensive than in areas where fresh fruit and veg are easier to ship.


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## Your Plump Princess (Sep 19, 2010)

That's terrible.. D: May that poor beautiful girl rest in piece.. 


As to the 'food' talk going on above me,

Think of it this way.
When you are starving, hungriest of hungry, what do you want to eat? You want to feel full, yeah? So CARBS. 

Lots of Food Pantries, at least in my area, and discount-food-opportunities, 80% of what you get is carbs. 

There's something in my area called "Ruby's Kitchen", for example. For $15 you go and get 2 boxes full of food.

This Food? --- Several bags of frozen fries, pasta, potatos, bread, a gallon of milk, and a bunch of dried goods. [Cereal, Oatmeal, Ect.] Maybe 1/4 of each box contained something that wasn't a carb.


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## blubberismanly (Sep 19, 2010)

thirtiesgirl said:


> Different parts of the world don't always have such easy access to fresh fruit and vegetables. Thusly, they're more expensive than in areas where fresh fruit and veg are easier to ship.



So it is related to location...interesting. And I do remember being on food stamps when I was little...they never paid for enough. But that's thinking as an educated LA chick. I've been to GA and some areas are, well...deplorable. The education and housing are both substandard. So it may not entirely be access, but as mentioned, knowledgem of what to and not to eat.

I still think 500 lbs is a bit...much for a poor kid. I can't get past that.


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## thirtiesgirl (Sep 19, 2010)

blubberismanly said:


> So it is related to location...interesting. And I do remember being on food stamps when I was little...they never paid for enough. But that's thinking as an educated LA chick. I've been to GA and some areas are, well...deplorable. The education and housing are both substandard. So it may not entirely be access, but as mentioned, knowledgem of what to and not to eat.
> 
> I still think 500 lbs is a bit...much for a poor kid. I can't get past that.



I live in SoCal, too. We have easier access to fresh fruit and vegetables than other parts of the country. They grow here, so it's not so expensive to get. Other parts of the country and world, not so much.


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## Christov (Sep 19, 2010)

Next stop facepalm city, population: us.


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## LillyBBBW (Sep 19, 2010)

Bleh. Nevermind. I hate these kinds of stories.


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## Ernest Nagel (Sep 19, 2010)

Fire is dangerous to people of all sizes. Her weight may have been a factor but smoke inhalation/respiratory distress could've done mortal damage before the firemen ever got there. Speculation here is pointless. Sad to see any life cut so tragically short.

* USFA Home
* Fire Statistics
* QuickStats

QuickStats
The Overall Fire Picture - 2008
*
* There were 3,320 civilians that lost their lives as the result of fire.
* There were 16,705 civilian injuries that occurred as the result of fire.*
* There were 118 firefighters killed while on duty.
* Fire killed more Americans than all natural disasters combined.
* 84 percent of all civilian fire deaths occurred in residences.
* There were an estimated 1.5 million fires in 2008.
* Direct property loss due to fires was estimated at $15.5 billion. This figure includes the 2008 California Wildfires with an estimated loss of $1.4 billion.
* An estimated 32,500 intentionally set structure fires resulted in 315 civilian deaths.
* Intentionally set structure fires resulted in an estimated $866 million in property damage.

Source: National Fire Protection Association Fire Loss in the U.S. 2008 and USFA's Firefighter Fatalities in the United States in 2008.


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## AnnMarie (Sep 19, 2010)

blubberismanly said:


> I still think 500 lbs is a bit...much for a poor kid. I can't get past that.



She wasn't 500lbs _just_ because they're poor - I'm 400lbs (for 20ish years or more) and have never been what anyone would consider poor a day in my life. 

She was fat because of whatever reason people are fat - genetics, or whatever. We don't know if they were always that level of poor - that picture of her indicates to me that maybe they weren't - she looks quite lovely and well-taken-care-of. Maybe they were a victim of economy, they went from lower-middle class to nothing - who the hell knows. 

That's not the point of the story - fat happens, death happens, but this combo was tragic and hopefully there will be some plan in place to better assist people of size, more quickly, in an emergency like that. She's not even close to the only 500lbs+ person in America who may require emergency assistance.


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## LovelyLiz (Sep 19, 2010)

AnnMarie said:


> SNIPPED
> She's not even close to the only 500lbs+ person in America who may require emergency assistance.



Exactly. And the problem is, the more people see a situation like this and blame the girl for her fatness (or her family, or the economy, or WHATEVER), it just distracts from the real issue: getting emergency service providers to find ways to attend to the needs of all of the citizenry, including people who are 500+ pounds. If we keep blaming the person who died, the larger, broken, ineffective structure is let off the hook. That's not good.


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## joswitch (Sep 19, 2010)

bigmac said:


> I thought about posting this incredibly sad story in the "Death and Such" thread but that thread seems to have lost its focus.
> 
> The linked article is a great example of how the world can be a much more dangerous place if you're super-sized.
> 
> ...



Damn. Poor girl. That's hella sad.

I think it would've been very relevant to the "death and such" thread.
We were talking about how much the partner of a super sized person (feedee) would have to be willing and ABLE to do in that thread...

Back when I was with my long term gf who was in the mid to high 200lbs a big motivation for my working out like mad was - how much could I lift? Would I have the strength and stamina to get her out of a burning building if she was unconcious...? 
It was a very real concern for me... I actually pushed myself so hard I did some tendon damage and had to back off some... Yeah, I ain't physically all that... but I think the answer was "yes" albeit it would've been difficult and we'd both probably have ended up mightily bruised and battered...

If I was with a supersized partner, I know I'd have to put more resources (mechanical assistance) into that possibility....


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## jewels_mystery (Sep 20, 2010)

Your Plump Princess said:


> Lots of Food Pantries, at least in my area, and discount-food-opportunities, 80% of what you get is carbs.
> 
> There's something in my area called "Ruby's Kitchen", for example. For $15 you go and get 2 boxes full of food.
> 
> This Food? --- Several bags of frozen fries, pasta, potatos, bread, a gallon of milk, and a bunch of dried goods. [Cereal, Oatmeal, Ect.] Maybe 1/4 of each box contained something that wasn't a carb.



I agree with this. I did a internship where I had to take my clients to food pantries. I was stunned what food was given to clients. Nothing but high sugar, salt and carbs. No frozen or fresh fruits/vegs. Everything was canned and processed. they would give clients a box of cereal but no milk. A married couple recieved one bag of groceries that had to last two weeks.


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## cinnamitch (Sep 20, 2010)

jewels_mystery said:


> I agree with this. I did a internship where I had to take my clients to food pantries. I was stunned what food was given to clients. Nothing but high sugar, salt and carbs. No frozen or fresh fruits/vegs. Everything was canned and processed. they would give clients a box of cereal but no milk. A married couple recieved one bag of groceries that had to last two weeks.



A food pantry in a town i used to live in would collect the day old bakery products from the grocery stores. You would be almost guaranteed a big box of donuts and some kind of pie or cake. It was all about getting full. They had limited funds, limited donations so you ended up with cheap, fattening stuff.


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## jewels_mystery (Sep 20, 2010)

cinnamitch said:


> A food pantry in a town i used to live in would collect the day old bakery products from the grocery stores. You would be almost guaranteed a big box of donuts and some kind of pie or cake. It was all about getting full. They had limited funds, limited donations so you ended up with cheap, fattening stuff.



That was nice to give a sweet and bread to their clients. I nearly fell out on one visit. Apparently a store went out of business and donated the left over groceries. It must have been a fancy store and our clients ate good for a couple of weeks. We gave away all types of nuts in the fancy packages, soy milk and name brand items. I am talking the huge cashews that you normally buy from a nut shop for $12 a pound.


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## cinnamitch (Sep 20, 2010)

jewels_mystery said:


> That was nice to give a sweet and bread to their clients. I nearly fell out on one visit. Apparently a store went out of business and donated the left over groceries. It must have been a fancy store and our clients ate good for a couple of weeks. We gave away all types of nuts in the fancy packages, soy milk and name brand items. I am talking the huge cashews that you normally buy from a nut shop for $12 a pound.



You know the food shelves really try . I know at Thanksgiving and Christmas they work hard to make sure everyone who applies gets a nice box of food including the fixings for a pie. You might not always get turkey but you at least get a big hen. I know one year the VFW bought turkeys and donated them. It is just sad to realize that one box of food represents helping to feed a family for a month, since most of them limit you to once a month. 

Back to the subject before i get in trouble for derailing it. When you are larger and have mobility issues, you and those who may either live with you or help you with your activities should talk about contingency plans for the worst case scenarios. I myself have some mobility issues. So my room in on the main level and my bed is by a window. If for some reason there was a fire and i could not get out through a door, i know as long as there was someone to help me out i can get out through the window. Yeah i might be bruised or scratched up, but i will be out. If you live in a smaller town , it might be a good idea to have your info on file with the police and fire depts just in case emergency services might be required. I would rather be a little embarrassed by giving them my info, than to be dead because they were not prepared to deal with someone my size.


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## liz (di-va) (Sep 20, 2010)

This is really sad. She was beautiful. Poor girl.


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## blubberismanly (Sep 20, 2010)

Just to clarify, I wasn't intentionally trying to blame anybody for the death, I was just reconciling my experiences with one that was far different yet similar.


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## whome (Sep 20, 2010)

Our local food bank is very much the same, no fresh fruits or veg besides the occasional potato or carrot. If you have young children you can get milk and maybe some eggs. Most food banks are limited in their funds and rely upon donations. At anytime a loaf of bread can be found, but a bit of meat...only at Christmas


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## Forgotten_Futures (Sep 20, 2010)

Your Plump Princess said:


> Think of it this way.
> When you are starving, hungriest of hungry, what do you want to eat? You want to feel full, yeah? So CARBS.
> 
> Lots of Food Pantries, at least in my area, and discount-food-opportunities, 80% of what you get is carbs.



Actually, no. You want to feel full, you turn to fiber and protein. I can put down a pound of pasta in a single meal no problem, but 8 ounces of meat leaves me pretty full.

No, carbs are the item of choice for three reasons:
1) Keeps decently well once opened in a room temperature environment. Meat will spoil, fruits/veggies will spoil. Bread will go stale in a week or two, and pasta will keep for months.
2) Cost:mileage ratio. A loaf of bread or box of pasta will go farther (be available for more meals) than a slab of meat or a few cans of whatever. It'll cost less to obtain, too.
3) Energy rich. Takes the least effort to digest, and goes the farthest for those who need the calories. Considering many who turn to food pantries can't always get enough calories in a day, they need to store when they can for the future.

If food pantries were really concerned with making people feel full, they'd hand out boxes of All-Bran, beef jerky, and canned apples/pears. Instead, common handouts (assuming no refrigeration or cooking ability) are bread, peanut butter, and various canned fruits, vegetables, and meats. Spam is also popular = P



jewels_mystery said:


> I agree with this. I did a internship where I had to take my clients to food pantries. I was stunned what food was given to clients. Nothing but high sugar, salt and carbs. No frozen or fresh fruits/vegs. Everything was canned and processed. they would give clients a box of cereal but no milk. A married couple recieved one bag of groceries that had to last two weeks.



You unfortunately got just one side of things, and probably never asked the pantry supervisors why. When I was younger, I spent a lot of my summers helping out at the food pantry at my Grandparents' church. It was a 3-day supplemental operation, by no means intended to be a person's sole supply of food for the month. We serviced local townspeople once a week, and once per person/family per month. At the time, my Grandparents' oversaw the operation (they passed those reins due to age not long after work and college prevented me from helping out much any more), so I learned quite a bit in my time (nearly ten years) spent helping there.

There's two basic criterion that effect who gets what. They are, in order, ability and need. Break that down for ya.

Ability means, literally, what a client can and cannot do with what the pantry gives them. Depending on the locale and how long a pantry has existed, this can sometimes be determined by checking a client's address (or lack thereof). The one I served in was in a very small community (a town literally 1 mile, square) and so it was pretty well known who could handle what. This boils down to storage (refrigerator/freezer/neither) and preparation (microwave/toaster oven/stove/oven/none of the above). Also, in a lot of cases where there was access to one or more cooking/storage devices, that access was shared and/or limited in terms of duration at a given time. Ability basically determines what a client can and cannot use effectively. Meat, frozen fruit/veggies, and other short-term perishables were not given to people without storage capabilities. Similarly, if a client could not reliably cook something properly, it would not be available to them. This limited a lot of people to canned foods (some of which could outlast a nuclear holocaust, until opened), and moderate-long shelf life basics like bread, cereal, and peanut butter.

Need came second. In this case, need mostly represents a special case such as children (especially young ones) and/or certain health issues that require certain foods (as opposed to certain other ones), diabetics being the most common issue there. Due the increased needs of developing children, families with kids got more, and tended to get more variety as well. It was somewhat rare to encounter a family with children and no storage/prep device access, so these clients also tended to be the ones who got "big ticket" items, if we happened to have a supply on hand that week. This could mean as much as a 5-pound hunk of braise-quality beef, a 1-pound chunk of what was essentially unsliced deli meat, or perhaps merely a pack of hot dogs. It could also mean any sort of "comfort food" - a higher grade variant of a basic staple, perhaps something "kid friendly", or a pack of cookies.

I spent most of my time in the Government supplied goods section. Not every person had access to these, and what we had varied somewhat from week to week based on what they were able to get from the local food bank. Things we tended to have week after week were peanut butter, one or more varieties of canned fruit/veggies, one or more varieties of nuts, and some form of pasta. I often leveraged "young person's experience" to bolster what we gave out to multi-child families. Also, as I grew older, I helped out a lot with transporting heavy boxes inside the pantry, and at one point migrated the monthly government paperwork over to an excel spreadsheet.


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## Angel (Sep 20, 2010)

Your Plump Princess said:


> Think of it this way.
> When you are starving, hungriest of hungry, what do you want to eat? You want to feel full, yeah? So CARBS.





Forgotten_Futures said:


> Actually, no. You want to feel full, you turn to fiber and protein. I can put down a pound of pasta in a single meal no problem, but 8 ounces of meat leaves me pretty full.



Let's get serious here. If or when someone is _starving_ - and we are talking *deprived* and *malnourished* here and not just "I haven't had anything to eat since my last meal and my tummy is rumbling" hungry - they are not going to be picky about what they can get their hands on or about what is given to them. They will be thankful for anything that will ease the hunger pains (yes, pains) and thankful for whatever assistance is available to help make ends meet or that will help stretch any resources they may have.

Someone who is starving or _hungry_ and whose body isn't used to three nutritionally well balanced meals a day will not be able to handle fiber rich foods (like All-Bran) or 8 ounce slabs of meat at one sitting. 

One individual consuming eight ounces of meat isn't even a consideration among those truly "in need". Eight ounces of meat would be stretched to feed an entire family, and sometimes saved for their Sunday dinner because during the week dinner was what ever was grown in the small family garden or made from flour. It truly amazes me at what is often taken for granted.




Forgotten_Futures said:


> No, carbs are the item of choice for three reasons:
> 1) Keeps decently well once opened in a room temperature environment. Meat will spoil, fruits/veggies will spoil. Bread will go stale in a week or two, and pasta will keep for months.
> 2) Cost:mileage ratio. A loaf of bread or box of pasta will go farther (be available for more meals) than a slab of meat or a few cans of whatever. It'll cost less to obtain, too.
> 3) Energy rich. Takes the least effort to digest, and goes the farthest for those who need the calories. Considering many who turn to food pantries can't always get enough calories in a day, they need to store when they can for the future.
> ...



I don't think what you witnessed while helping out at the food pantry at your Grandparents' church would be considered as typical or even comparable to how most other church food pantrys are ran. Most food pantrys (even church ran ones) deal with much more than a small community inhabiting a one square mile radius. Most don't have the man power to keep such detailed tabs on those they are trying to assist. As a matter of fact, I've never been involved with a food pantry whose number one priority was based upon "ability". Those I have helped at and oversaw were concerned with "need" and "helping" and "assisting". Clients were all treated equally. The clients were "in need" and greatful and thankful and there was almost an unspoken type of honor system among the regulars. If they received something they couldn't use (due to dietary restrictions; health; etc.) they would not take it or they give it to another client or family that could use the item or product. One pantry was even a self serve, take what ever you need or can use. Even then I only know of one individual who took advantage of the way things were set up. When motivation is sincere on both the side of the suppliers and among clients or those in need, things usually have a way of working out in a positive way. Human need isn't based upon methodologies; and meeting those needs should never be based upon agendas in my opinion. But then again, I'm one of those who is lead by what's within my heart.


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## Jes (Sep 20, 2010)

You know, maybe this thread will be good motivation for those of you with an interest in helping at a food pantry to do just that.


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## Forgotten_Futures (Sep 20, 2010)

Angel said:


> Let's get serious here. If or when someone is _starving_ - and we are talking *deprived* and *malnourished* here and not just "I haven't had anything to eat since my last meal and my tummy is rumbling" hungry - they are not going to be picky about what they can get their hands on or about what is given to them. They will be thankful for anything that will ease the hunger pains (yes, pains) and thankful for whatever assistance is available to help make ends meet or that will help stretch any resources they may have.
> 
> Someone who is starving or _hungry_ and whose body isn't used to three nutritionally well balanced meals a day will not be able to handle fiber rich foods (like All-Bran) or 8 ounce slabs of meat at one sitting.
> 
> One individual consuming eight ounces of meat isn't even a consideration among those truly "in need". Eight ounces of meat would be stretched to feed an entire family, and sometimes saved for their Sunday dinner because during the week dinner was what ever was grown in the small family garden or made from flour. It truly amazes me at what is often taken for granted.



Good points, all. I was responding directly to the statement that carbs are your goto to feel full. But you are totally correct. A stomach unused to complex foods doesn't handle them well, which is a fourth point I missed in favor of a carb-heavy diet for those whose circumstances prevent them from affording properly varied food choices.



> I don't think what you witnessed while helping out at the food pantry at your Grandparents' church would be considered as typical or even comparable to how most other church food pantrys are ran. Most food pantrys (even church ran ones) deal with much more than a small community inhabiting a one square mile radius. Most don't have the man power to keep such detailed tabs on those they are trying to assist. As a matter of fact, I've never been involved with a food pantry whose number one priority was based upon "ability". Those I have helped at and oversaw were concerned with "need" and "helping" and "assisting". Clients were all treated equally. The clients were "in need" and greatful and thankful and there was almost an unspoken type of honor system among the regulars. If they received something they couldn't use (due to dietary restrictions; health; etc.) they would not take it or they give it to another client or family that could use the item or product. One pantry was even a self serve, take what ever you need or can use. Even then I only know of one individual who took advantage of the way things were set up. When motivation is sincere on both the side of the suppliers and among clients or those in need, things usually have a way of working out in a positive way. Human need isn't based upon methodologies; and meeting those needs should never be based upon agendas in my opinion. But then again, I'm one of those who is lead by what's within my heart.



No two organizations are going to be run exactly the same, even if their end goals are identical. Perhaps I'm just cynical, but I don't trust people enough not to take advantage of a system if they think they can. If you've experienced a pantry where the honor system was used and worked, then that is truly awesome. I'm also not under the illusion I was privy to a normal situation. That pantry is very lucky in how much they know and how little they have to keep track of, in terms of quantity of clients and serving them. I don't know what kind of usage they see these days, but I'd give a fair guess of ~100 people per month, average, when I used to help out there.

Either way, my purpose and intent was to give posters (and readers) who have no personal experience with the system some sort of idea the reason(s) behind the content of alms provided by pantries.


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## vardon_grip (Sep 20, 2010)

I feel that all this talk about economic ability, carb's, nutrition, food stamps, mobility issues...etc. would have been deemed "disrespectful" if Jamaya Herron was a member of Dimensions. 

Since she wasn't a member who died and since no one knows her "personally"...it's cool to discuss similar stuff that was deemed disrespectful several weeks ago in another thread. This is a weight related death from a new perspective.

I'm not saying it's wrong to discuss this. I'm not saying it's right. Either it's okay to discuss this or it's not and being a member of Dimensions shouldn't be a factor in what is or isn't "disrespectful".


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## Rebel (Sep 20, 2010)

mcbeth said:


> Exactly. And the problem is, the more people see a situation like this and blame the girl for her fatness (or her family, or the economy, or WHATEVER), it just distracts from the real issue: getting emergency service providers to find ways to attend to the needs of all of the citizenry, including people who are 500+ pounds. If we keep blaming the person who died, the larger, broken, ineffective structure is let off the hook. That's not good.



AnneMarie and Macbeth are both right in many ways. And in a great many ways, local emergency response agencies are making much needed improvements.

I have transported patients who weighed more than 500 pounds, including performing CPR on a patient closer to 600 pounds. Our front-line ambulances are equipped so that certain parts can be removed from the floor quickly to allow the transport of patients who simply will not fit on our cots, or stretchers. It is not easy on the patient or the medics, but as firemen we are pretty well versed in improvisation.

When the economy was good, my fire department was assembling an ambulance which would be dedicated to transporting patients who were simply too large to be loaded and treated in our front-line ambulances. This included both provisions for the massively obese and patients over 6'9" tall. It would have included a heavy duty hydraulic stretcher, greater wheelbase chassis, longer intubation equipment, larger b/p cuffs, and other equipment and provisions for that minority of patients who are of greater than normal sizes.

Unfortunately, the realities of the economy forced that money to be shifted to other priorities. A specially dedicated ambulance, even if it is unmanned, is a daunting expense, and not one which can be included when a budget is unavoidably cutting jobs and benefits. I'm not sure how much higher in the "larger, broken, ineffective structure" we can go to solve these issues, but I can assure you that they are beyond the scope of your fire departments and EMS providers.

But the transport of patients is only one aspect, and not the one most relevant to this story. Having been in a number of house fires and a few less victim rescues (and far too many body recoveries), I can assure you that lifting a person is only one part of the problem. Carrying, or even dragging a person in a house is where the real problem comes in.

Turn around, look around your house or apartment. I'll bet you have a doorway that hits the side of the end of a hallway that leads to the bedrooms. Most homes, and probably the single-story tract home in the story, have one like this, it is an efficient design for people who are walking. Now remember how much trouble it was moving the furniture through that doorway, especially something like a big heavy headboard or bookcase. It was difficult even when the the visibility was good, there was no rush, the movers were wearing just jeans and a tee shirt, and the object being moved had lots of places for handholds. And remember that very few objects in your house weigh more than 400 pounds. Even with a standard ambulance cot and no patient, that corner is a pain.

Now picture that same corner, but this time it's obscured to invisibility by smoke. It's too hot to stand up without wearing full protective gear, including thick leather gloves and an air tank that sticks out behind you a full foot. There is no way to fit more than two firefighters dressed like that side by side in that hallway, and they can't through the door at the same time. They know that they have a sharply limited amount of time in the structure for many reasons, not the least of which is their own breathable air is limited. Instead of carrying a big heavy headboard or bookcase, they have a 490 pound victim. She is unconscious and limp, so even grabbing her to lift is problematic. There is barely room for her and the three firefighters in the hallway, so each one has to carry 160 extra pounds in addition to the 75 pounds he is wearing. even with a carrying strap, which my department issues, you can see how difficult this is. And things will get even worse when they get to end of the hallway and have to maneuver her through that doorway. And that is only one example. Imagine if she was in the bathroom between the commode and the bathtub, or in a crowded bedroom with a dresser too close to the door. Imagine if the victim was in a small bathroom in a crowded bedroom at the end of that hallway. 

And even using the carrying straps, dragging an unconscious body of any size through a house is not as easy as it seems. Next time you have some bored friends over, try it.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no device which can be readied for rapid deployment in a close space, have a body loaded onto it in that space by less than three rescuers, and then rolled through a tight maze. If such a rescue device is invented, I am certain that it will be far too expensive for the vast majority of cities to place on even a few of their fire trucks.

This was indeed a tragedy, I have no argument there at all. I am gladdened by the rescues which were accomplished. I commend the firefighters who made and attempted them. Like firefighters everywhere, they do the best they can with what they have where they are. Sometimes, like in this story, that just isn't enough to save everyone. In this case, I do not believe that "getting emergency service providers to find ways to attend to the needs of all of the citizenry, including people who are 500+ pounds" would have saved this beautiful girl. I do not believe that this was the fire department's fault. I believe that Macbeth is wrong to imply blame on them.

The story did not say if the house had battery operated smoke detectors installed, or if they were operational. Does yours? Home Depot, Lowes, Walmart, and lot's of other places have them for under $10. Many fire departments, my own among them, will provide and install smoke detectors free of charge to poor families in homes. Even with the house electricity turned off, even with cheap batteries, these little devices truly are life savers. 

How many of you remember fire drills at school, when the alarm went off and you practiced filing out of the building with your classmates? I always though it was fun. Have you ever done that at your home? You should. determine two routes out of your home, and then see if you can follow them while crawling with your eyes closed. Make sure that your smoke alarm will wake you all up. The most important part of a home fire drill is to make sure that everyone knows where to meet, like at the neighbors' mailbox.

Your firefighters will do the best we can with what we have where we are. If you can help us with that, you'll be helping yourself.


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## Szombathy (Sep 20, 2010)

Rebel's post and others suggest an important point: that those of us who are large enough to have a reason to be concerned (and those of us who are friends with said people) ought to prepare their own emergency preparedness/evacuation plans to avoid future tragedies.


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## Forgotten_Futures (Sep 20, 2010)

Does a typical fire truck carry anything that could go through the outer wall of a house? Particularly one that might not be in the best of shape to begin with *and* is on fire? I know those nice red axes are a lot sharper than most commercial offerings.


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## Rebel (Sep 21, 2010)

Forgotten_Futures said:


> Does a typical fire truck carry anything that could go through the outer wall of a house? Particularly one that might not be in the best of shape to begin with *and* is on fire? I know those nice red axes are a lot sharper than most commercial offerings.



Yes Forgotten Futures, they do carry fire axes. And in some instances, that is the way to effect a rescue. And while that may possibly have worked here, I am not willing to accept that it was the proper tactic here with no more information than I have. If had no more information, knowledge, and experience than you appear to have, I certainly would never put such a sarcastic supposition up.

If I knew what you did for a living, I also might make ignorant assumptions about how your field of endeavor could be improved. It wouldn't be the first time I have made a mistake. 

I will assume that since you think fire axes are sharper than a commercially available axe that you aren't that familiar with them. They are quite a bit duller in fact, because an axe that is too sharp will be damaged by striking nails, wires, pipes, and other hard objects used in construction but not normally found in trees.

But just so you know, if a fire department does decide to breach an exterior wall for whatever reason, it is a lot more likely that we'll use a combination of sledges and a K12 saw. Most engine companies don't have a K12, so that would mean waiting for a truck company to arrive. In most cases, the smaller faster engines, or pumpers, arrive first.

Under perfect conditions, breaching an exterior wall may have been the proper method for rescuing a trapped victim. But obviously, no rescue ever occurs under perfect conditions. I do not know the SOPs of the Rockford FD, but I do know that a known rescue is the FIRST PRIORITY of any fire department. That means that the first arriving fire company, or companies if they are lucky, will be the ones to attempt any rescue. That means that there is a severely limited number of trained firefighters on scene during the initial stages of fire operations. And don't forget, the fire always has a head start on us! And active fires move fast, much faster than Hollywood leads you to believe. In this case, two people were rescued, so that tells me that there were even fewer people available to attempt the last rescue.

And what size hole would you need to breach in an exterior wall to remove a 500 pound person? In a structure of that sort, particularly one that might not be in the best of shape to begin with and is on fire, it could well be enough to weaken the wall enough to cause a roof collapse. In that instance, you would very likely have a civilian fatality as well as two Line Of Duty Deaths.

Another potential problem is determining which walls are external? The fire occurred at night, so the firefighters may not have been able to use the light from windows as a guide. In an unfamiliar house under that type of stress in those conditions, it really is a guessing game. If they guess wrong, they will waste valuable time that could not only delay the rescue but lead to all of their deaths.

The one familiar thing that firefighters do have is the hose line. We are trained from rookie school that the hose always leads out. We are trained to follow the hose line out. We drill on being able to tell by feeling the couplings which way the hose is positioned, and therefore which way the engine is, and therefore where OUT is. In a difficult rescue, you are almost always best served to follow your training. In uncertain situations, that training is to follow the hose line out.

One other thing which I have not seen addressed here but I can assure you is a real possibility is that a victim was found in a place where she could not have survived. If that was the case, there was never any tactic which might have saved her. As an example, if she was lying on a mattress when she was found and the level of smoke was down to the floor when the firefighters arrived, it is very likely that she had already been dead for sometime. As professional firefighters, we all recognize this reality and still we make the attempt to get them out on the off chance that they just might be the miraculous exception.

As I said, going through an exterior wall may have been a way to make that rescue. I don't know, I wasn't there. It is certainly something that I will try to keep in mind as a potential tactic in the future. There may come a time when Forgotten Future's sarcasm may save a life, how about that!

Am I willing to lay blame on the firefighters who were there on the scene and were injured during the course of their duty? No, I am not. Am I willing to demonstrate how clever is my sarcasm on the brave men and women who have to live with the fact that a girl died with them? No.


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## Forgotten_Futures (Sep 21, 2010)

I apologize if I sounded sarcastic; I wasn't. I was honestly curious what alternate methods might exist to deal with a difficult removal situation, such as this one. I am also chagrined at being wrong on the sharpness of the axe.

Thank you for the thorough, descriptive reply. I learned something.


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## Rebel (Sep 21, 2010)

Forgotten Futures, your reply was much classier than mine. Thank you, and I'm sorry I took that tone.


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## joswitch (Sep 21, 2010)

Rebel said:


> Forgotten Futures, your reply was much classier than mine. Thank you, and I'm sorry I took that tone.



I too was wondering about the tear-down-a-wall option.
Your post was enlightening, Rebel, thanks.


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## jewels_mystery (Sep 22, 2010)

Forgotten_Futures said:


> You unfortunately got just one side of things, and probably never asked the pantry supervisors why. When I was younger, I spent a lot of my summers helping out at the food pantry at my Grandparents' church. It was a 3-day supplemental operation, by no means intended to be a person's sole supply of food for the month. We serviced local townspeople once a week, and once per person/family per month. At the time, my Grandparents' oversaw the operation (they passed those reins due to age not long after work and college prevented me from helping out much any more), so I learned quite a bit in my time (nearly ten years) spent helping there.
> 
> There's two basic criterion that effect who gets what. They are, in order, ability and need. Break that down for ya.
> 
> Thank you for sharing your experience with pantries in a small town. I used to be a social worker and very familiar with the procedures. The food pantries that I took my clients too were both church and agency based. As it was stated before, the food given out was meant to supplement or provide emergency food. Our pantries went by zip codes and usually served at least 5. There would be days that I would have to take my clients to several pantries until we found one that still had food. The same groceries were given out to every client regardless of "ability". The whole "ability" notion is a bit too judgmental and I am glad none of my pantries took that role. We left it up to the clients to decide what they wanted. Donations & funding are small and that reflected in the food that is given out. They can do but so much with a small amount of money. Most pantries do not have the freezers and refrigerators to hold frozen and dairy products. The only pantry that did give out meat and dairy products was at a HIV agency. My agency also had clients in rural areas and I have to admit the pantries there had a better selection of food.


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## JMNYC (Sep 22, 2010)

Whatever size you are, respect and keep a close eye on any candles or open flame in any house. RIP


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## gangstadawg (Sep 23, 2010)

may she rest in peace!


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## largehipslover (Sep 23, 2010)

oh God, such a beautiful girl too.... most importantly only 18. This is so saddening...


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## Emma (Sep 23, 2010)

I'm very saddened that people can be so poor in this day and age in a country where there is so much available. I'm also super saddened that this has happened.


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## KHayes666 (Sep 23, 2010)

Jes said:


> You know, maybe this thread will be good motivation for those of you with an interest in helping at a food pantry to do just that.



Already there....


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## jewels_mystery (Sep 23, 2010)

My heart and prayers go out to her family. She was too young and her life was just beginning.


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## midnightrogue (Sep 23, 2010)

Natural selection at work here.


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## mossystate (Sep 23, 2010)

midnightrogue said:


> Natural selection at work here.




What is wrong with you.


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## Aswani (Sep 23, 2010)

bigmac said:


> The linked article is a great example of how the world can be a much more dangerous place if you're super-sized.



I whole-heartedly agree. And I'm very happy to see the support and encouragement of such things as feederism/gainerism towards super-size people is on the downswing. It's showing a positive sign that _all_ of us actually are concerned about the health and wellfare of those in this community. 

This is a very sad story and I wish the victim's family kindness and support.


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## Jes (Sep 23, 2010)

midnightrogue said:


> Natural selection at work here.



Rogue, I understand that you have your own body issues and that you're conflicted about your desires and the social impact they might have on you, but I'm going to ask you to think about what you've typed above, and to decide if it was helpful, necessary or kind.


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## KHayes666 (Sep 23, 2010)

midnightrogue said:


> Natural selection at work here.



Please elaborate....for your own sake.


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## PewterBunny (Sep 23, 2010)

blubberismanly said:


> Maybe I'm being dense here, but how does a poor kid grow to over 500 lbs? I've been poor all my life and was homeless off and on for most of my adolescence. Given the conditions she was living in, I doubt there was enough money in the household to feed her that much. People blame the weight alone for her death...I have to wonder of there was some other issue that led to the weight, like lymph edema, caused by a more serious condition. I would be interested in the full coroner's report, but they will probably never release it.



I have unfortunately lived on both sides of the fence. I was working a great job...making lots of money. Lots of money = lots of money for food...good food....the expensive stuff like fruit and veggies...Cereal, juice, lean meat... Then went off on sick leave... (not exactly poverty I know), but learning to shop totally differently in a grocery store, so you have enough left over for rent, insurance, car payment, gas...food unfortunately comes last on the payment schedule.

THEN there is the question of cheap food being....yes...cheap....boxed, bagged, canned, a .99$ loaf of cheap white bread (I live in Canada btw) vs a $2.99 bag of whole wheat bread...then lets look at what we put on that sandwich....peanut butter and ooo splurge on jam...or lovely deli ham and cheese.... Its easy to eat good food with a good amount of money.

I have also had the pleasure of working at a food bank for several months. The food given out is desperately needed, but looking into the bags of food being given out...I know they try to get as many food groups into the bag as possible...its a grand gesture...but I'm afraid not much help.

I'm also not saying all people with a lower paying job, or no job at all are fat, I myself have added a lot of weight being on sick leave....(sick leave also means not much physical movement)....so you have to read into it what you want....:blush:

Factor in any number of health issues she may have had to get her to that size. And yes I fully agree with you blubberismanly that the coroners findings will probably never hit the newsstand.

Ohh btw I'm on my way back to work...hopefully before the end of November!


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## PewterBunny (Sep 23, 2010)

midnightrogue said:


> Natural selection at work here.



 But does it actually say SENIOR MEMBER under Midnightrogue's name??? Can you get to be "senior" on the DIM Forums by posting comments such as this? Or is Senior suggesting an age bracket?

Just sayin'....


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## D_A_Bunny (Sep 23, 2010)

midnightrogue said:


> Natural selection at work here.



This statement placed / plopped down in the middle of this thread makes me feel as if I have been discussing some important information with my neighbor and someone's loose animal has just come and taken a dump at our feet. It would cause me to pause and wonder, why the hell did he do it here? What is his problem? Is he trying to get our attention?

Well, you have my attention. What is the natural selection? Female? Fat? Black? Poor? Still living with her parents? Chicago area? What caused her to be selected?

And I am really hoping that you have the cajunes to come back to this thread and answer the people who have responded to your statement. Passive/aggressive is *so* not in this year.


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## joswitch (Sep 23, 2010)

midnightrogue said:


> Natural selection at work here.



Here's an idea:
Why not sit down..... relax... 
And treat yourself to a nice, big cup of shut-the-fuck-up??


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## joswitch (Sep 23, 2010)

Aswani said:


> I whole-heartedly agree. And I'm very happy to see the support and encouragement of such things as feederism/gainerism towards super-size people is on the downswing.



What the hell makes you think these events had anything to do with feedism???:doh:

Odds are this young girl was not a gainer and probably never heard of feedism... It's irrelevant...

Lessons /issues in this story for anyone with mobility issues, especially if super-sized, and the people who love them - regardless of how they acquired mobility issues, or how they became supersized.


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## CastingPearls (Sep 23, 2010)

midnightrogue said:


> Natural selection at work here.


Profoundly offensive.


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## AnnMarie (Sep 23, 2010)

Aswani said:


> I whole-heartedly agree. And I'm very happy to see the support and encouragement of such things as feederism/gainerism towards super-size people is on the downswing. It's showing a positive sign that _all_ of us actually are concerned about the health and wellfare of those in this community.
> 
> This is a very sad story and I wish the victim's family kindness and support.



WHAT???



joswitch said:


> What the hell makes you think these events had anything to do with feedism???:doh:
> 
> Odds are this young girl was not a gainer and probably never heard of feedism... It's irrelevant...
> 
> Lessons /issues in this story for anyone with mobility issues, especially if super-sized, and the people who love them - regardless of how they acquired mobility issues, or how they became supersized.




Yes, all this. 


SHE WAS FAT. Most of us didn't get this way because of any sexual fetish or interest, we're JUST FAT. She was a young girl, who was just fat. Bleh, don't even know what else to say to you trying to make that part of this discussion.


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## CleverBomb (Sep 24, 2010)

joswitch said:


> What the hell makes you think these events had anything to do with feedism???:doh:
> 
> Odds are this young girl was not a gainer and probably never heard of feedism... It's irrelevant...
> 
> Lessons /issues in this story for anyone with mobility issues, especially if super-sized, and the people who love them - regardless of how they acquired mobility issues, or how they became supersized.


don't get to rep this time, but that, yeah. 

-Rusty


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## CleverBomb (Sep 24, 2010)

AnnMarie said:


> SHE WAS FAT. Most of us didn't get this way because of any sexual fetish or interest, we're JUST FAT. She was a young girl, who was just fat. Bleh, don't even know what else to say to you trying to make that part of this discussion.


or this time, either. Bang on.

-Rusty


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## Aswani (Sep 24, 2010)

joswitch said:


> What the hell makes you think these events had anything to do with feedism???:doh:
> 
> Odds are this young girl was not a gainer and probably never heard of feedism... It's irrelevant...



I don't know why or how you associated my statement with the young victim being a feeder. I said I'm glad this community is showing more care and understanding to the notion that encouraging someone to gain hundreds of pounds is not a humane thing to do. There was a time here where that type of practice was considered fun and fair and harmless. In other words I was echoing the original poster's sentiment that life can be more dangerous if your weight begins to compromise your mobility. I was saying _good things _about this community. Not bad.


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## joswitch (Sep 24, 2010)

Aswani said:


> I don't know why or how you associated my statement with the young victim being a feeder. I said I'm glad this community is showing more care and understanding to the notion that encouraging someone to gain hundreds of pounds is not a humane thing to do. There was a time here where that type of practice was considered fun and fair and harmless. In other words I was echoing the original poster's sentiment that life can be more dangerous if your weight begins to compromise your mobility. I was saying _good things _about this community. Not bad.



You were trashing feedism and gaining and spuriously linking their practice to this thread. That's what you were doing.

You can stop kidding yourself now, cos you sure ain't kidding anyone else.


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## Dromond (Sep 24, 2010)

The story is about a young girl who died in a fire. It's not an invitation to pontificate. Show a little respect, people.


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## Aswani (Sep 26, 2010)

Agreed....


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## loveembig (Sep 27, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> Here's the same story from an American website:
> http://www.thisis50.com/profiles/blog/show?id=784568%3ABlogPost%3A21821372&xg_source=activity&page=1#comments
> 
> More amazing is some of the comments that were made in response to this news story.



No offense but what I find "amazing" is that you find the all too real vile comments "amazing". The world has always been overrun with intolerant self righteous assholes. It’s just that the net has now given them all a voice and with that voice comes exposure to an almost unlimited audience. Most everybody today is looking for their 15 minutes of fame in one way or the other and for some, showing off how much of a dick they can be is the only way they can get it. 
It's a pitiful commentary on our society if you ask me.


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## Aswani (Sep 27, 2010)

loveembig said:


> No offense but what I find "amazing" is that you find the all too real vile comments "amazing".



Even though we all see such comments--and a lot worse--on the internet on a daily basis, we still can't cease to be amazed by such insensitivity. I personally think when we _stop_ showing amazement for such things, all truly is lost. 

I do realize the best remedy is to ignore the senseless comments from snerts that just want their bit of fame since their objective is to rile our tail feathers.


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