# Did you hear the news? Obesity is contagious!



## volatile (Jul 25, 2007)

I found this article on Yahoo! that basically says that if you are thin and you have friends that are gaining weight you should stay away from them if you "value you sleek physiques". I'm so offended I don't even know where to begin. I don't know about anyone else but my weight isn't affected by anyone. I have skinny friends and I have fat friends, I don't look to them to determine how much I weigh.

--------------------------------------------



Jeanna Bryner
LiveScience Staff Writer
LiveScience.com1 hour, 23 minutes ago

People who notice their friend packing on pounds might want to steer clear if they value their sleek physiques.

A new study finds that when the scale reads "obese" for one individual, the odds that their friends will become obese increase by more than 50 percent.

The study, published in the July 26 issue of the New England Journal of Medicine, suggests that obesity is "socially contagious," as it can spread among individuals in close social circles. The likely explanation: A person's idea of what is an appropriate body size is affected by the size of his or her friends.

Conversely, the researchers found that thinness is also contagious.

"Social effects, I think, are much stronger than people before realized," said co-author James Fowler, a social-networks expert at the University of California-San Diego. "There's been an intensive effort to find genes that are responsible for obesity and physical processes that are responsible for obesity, and what our paper suggests is that you really should spend time looking at the social side of life as well."

An outside expert on social networks called the new research impressive, particularly in showing a causal link between obesity and friends. However, he cautioned that the evidence for the effect extending out to friends' friends, and so on, is weaker.

"The suggestion in their paper is that obesity sort of spreads through the network as if it were some kind of epidemic, some kind of contagious disease," said Duncan Watts, who studies social networks at Columbia University. While this is plausible, he noted, the current research doesn't provide direct evidence for this phenomena.

Social networks

Research has shown that peers influence each other's health behaviors. One past study showed that teens associating with friends who smoke and drink were more likely to take up the behaviors. However, no past research has looked at how the impact extends to friends' friends and beyond.

In the new study, Fowler and Nicholas Christakis of Harvard Medical School analyzed health data collected between 1971 and 2003 from more than 12,000 adults who participated in the Framingham Heart Study, an ongoing cardiovascular study. Participants provided contact information for close friends, many of whom were also study participants, resulting in a total of 38,611 social and family ties.

The researchers found that if a participant's friend became obese over the course of the study, the chances that the participant also became obese increased by 57 percent. Among mutual friends (both individuals indicate the other is a "friend"), the chances nearly tripled.

Among siblings, if one becomes obese the likelihood of their sister or brother becoming obese increases by 40 percent. Among spouses there is a 37 percent increased risk.

Gender also affected the degree of "obesity contagion." In same-sex friendships, individuals had a 71 percent increased risk of obesity if a friend became obese. If a guy's brother is obese, he's 44 percent more likely to also become obese. Among sisters, the risk was 67 percent.

Fat factors

Other studies have suggested that obesity might be physically contagious, possibly passing from one person to another by virus. But that idea has not been firmly supported. The new study doesn't address this possibility but instead looked at mindsets and attitudes as the controlling factors.

Fat-fueling factors were taken into consideration. For instance, the researchers made sure the effect wasn't a case of "birds of a feather flocking together." Body measurements were taken throughout the study period, showing when individuals became obese and whether they began the study with obese readings.

"It's not that obese or non-obese people simply find other similar people to hang out with," Christakis said. "Rather, there is a direct, causal relationship."

They also ruled out the idea that an outside factor, and not the friendship, caused the fatness. If an environmental factor were affecting both individuals in a friendship, then it shouldn't matter whether individuals are mutual friends or just one individual labels the other as a friend.

The study, however, found that it does matter which way the friend arrow points: If subjects named an obese person as a friend, they tended to be affected by that person's obesity.

But when the person on the receiving end did not label the first person as a friend, there was no "obesity contagion" effect in the other direction. The distinct variable here is who calls whom a "friend." 

"The fact that it only has an effect when I think you're my friend is very strongly suggestive to me," Watts said. "That's about as good as you can do in terms of identifying a causal relationship."

Perhaps friends just spend a lot of time together and so would eat similar foods and engage in the same physical activities. But they found the results held no matter the geographic proximity of friends.

"So friends that are thousands of miles away have just as large an impact on you as friends who are right next door," Fowler told LiveScience.

The scientists suggest the findings can be explained if friends are influencing one another's norms for body weight.

"What appears to be happening is that a person becoming obese most likely causes a change of norms about what counts as an appropriate body size," Christakis said. "People come to think that it is OK to be bigger since those around them are bigger, and this sensibility spreads."

Bulging waistlines

In the past 25 years, obesity among U.S. adults has shot from 15 to 32 percent. The new study reveals friends could be feeding the fat epidemic, along with our large-serving, high-calorie, fast-food lifestyles.

"We show that one person's behavior ripples through the network to have an impact beyond those first-order friendships," Fowler said. "So we're talking about dozens of people that are affected by one person's health outcomes and health behaviors."

He added, "And that needs to be taken into account by policy analysts and also by politicians who are trying to decide what the best measures are for making society healthier." 

Source: Yahoo!


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## Wagimawr (Jul 25, 2007)

> "What appears to be happening is that a person becoming obese most likely causes a change of norms about what counts as an appropriate body size," Christakis said. "People come to think that it is OK to be bigger since those around them are bigger, and this sensibility spreads."


This is the most horrifying statement in the entire article.


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## Waxwing (Jul 25, 2007)

> "What appears to be happening is that a person becoming obese most likely causes a change of norms about what counts as an appropriate body size," Christakis said. "People come to think that it is OK to be bigger since those around them are bigger, and this sensibility spreads."



Oh my god. I cannot believe I just read that.

Edit: Wag snipped that first.


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## SamanthaNY (Jul 25, 2007)

Resistance is futile
You will be assimilated





We Are Fat.


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## Jon Blaze (Jul 25, 2007)

Their minds are so blown, it isn't even funny. What begins as a simple observation, turns into a brash generalization that validates prejudice. Such a sad thing to see from people that we are supposed to believe are professionals. *SIGH* Maybe aspiring to get a psychology degree for the second run is a good idea.
Money makes the world go round...


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## AnnMarie (Jul 25, 2007)

So, following this line of thinking... if you hang out with a bunch of gay people, you become gayer?

And frankly, what is wrong with perhaps realizing that you don't HAVE to be a certain size to be "ok" in this world, and that maybe being around different groups and changing along with them (however that may be) is something we do as humans to be comfortable, to find our "pack", to leave judgment behind and find a happy medium. 

Ugh, I'm sick of this shit... sick to death of it. 

The saddest thing is, it would probably almost be easier to be thin and just go along to get along. That's a sad fucking world to live in.


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## volatile (Jul 25, 2007)

_Other studies have suggested that obesity might be physically contagious, possibly passing from one person to another by virus. But that idea has not been firmly supported. The new study doesn't address this possibility but instead looked at mindsets and attitudes as the controlling factors._


I've never laughed so hard reading something like this. Are they kidding me? lol

Fat germs? For some reason I keep picturing the little fat Mucinex men clinging to skinny people and yelling "You sha'll be fat now! You cannot stop me!"

I guess whenever someone stares at me I can't say "Don't worry, you can't catch it!" anymore. LOL Man, these people are so far gone from actual reality it is scary.


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## volatile (Jul 25, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> So, following this line of thinking... if you hang out with a bunch of gay people, you become gayer?



Well hell if that's the case I must be *super* gay! lol My roommate is a lesbian and I have 2 uncles, 1 aunt and 3 cousins that are gay. Not to mention countless gay friends and a few extended relatives. 

I can say that I have become a hell of a lot more comfortable with my fatness since joining this board and seeing all the beautiful fat people here. That does not mean I'm going to go and gain more weight because of it.


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## AnnMarie (Jul 25, 2007)

volatile said:


> I've never laughed so hard reading something like this. Are they kidding me? lol
> 
> Fat germs? For some reason I keep picturing the little fat Mucinex men clinging to skinny people and yelling "You sha'll be fat now! You cannot stop me!"
> 
> I guess whenever someone stares at me I can't say "Don't worry, you can't catch it!" anymore. LOL Man, these people are so far gone from actual reality it is scary.



None of my skinny bfs has caught it. 

And they would have. 

If you know what I'm sayin'.


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## diggers1917 (Jul 25, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> So, following this line of thinking... if you hang out with a bunch of gay people, you become gayer?



Not just that. I _knew_ the reason I was having trouble reaching the top shelves recently is because I have so many short friends... 

And the Fat Plague? Where do they dig these people up?


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 25, 2007)

SamanthaNY said:


> Resistance is futile
> You will be assimilated
> 
> 
> ...




Oh my gawd... best post I have read in a long time


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## TallFatSue (Jul 25, 2007)

diggers1917 said:


> Not just that. I _knew_ the reason I was having trouble reaching the top shelves recently is because I have so many short friends...


Exactly. Come to think of it, I used to be 7ft3 until I started hanging around shorter people, and now I'm only 6ft tall.


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## Jon Blaze (Jul 25, 2007)

volatile said:


> _Other studies have suggested that obesity might be physically contagious, possibly passing from one person to another by virus. But that idea has not been firmly supported. The new study doesn't address this possibility but instead looked at mindsets and attitudes as the controlling factors._
> 
> 
> I've never laughed so hard reading something like this. Are they kidding me? lol
> ...










I'M ALL UP IN UR BODY, MESSING WIT UR MUHTABOLIZM!!
Now let's conga!


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## Keb (Jul 25, 2007)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/25/AR2007072501353.html?hpid=topnews

The Post's coverage contains a few astonishingly scary lines as well. Anyone know if MeMe Roth funded this study? Geez. 

"Other researchers used words like "brilliant" and "groundbreaking" to describe the work and said it is likely to lead to a flurry of new research." 

This qualifies for scientific analysis?

"If these close social environments can promote a disease, they can also promote solutions to disease," said William H. Dietz of the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. "These same social networks might be used to turn a disease like obesity around."

So...everyone should become a fat bigot so we all lose weight. Yeah, cause that -really- works.


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## pani (Jul 25, 2007)

I bet this theory could be debunked in a few seconds flat when we actually read it. But here are a few thoughts without even reading it yet:

I an not sure they proved their point about "birds of a feather" not flocking together. Sometimes people with similar body types befriend each other. Maybe they weren't officially "obese" at the time of the study, just merely a bit plump, but their bodies were programed to be fatter later on. Not to say that ALL people hang around similar body types, only that there is enough of a trend to for statistics to pick up on. (And their stats were not all that impressive to begin with in proving causation!!!) Likewise, people with fat family members may be more comfortable around other people with fat families. And maybe their genetic tendency toward obesity will just show up later on in life.

It also didn't take into account that people of similar social classes tend to befriend each other. It is true that there is an association between poverty and obesity, statistically poor people are more likely to be fatter. So it is not that fat people make their friends fatter, but that socioeconomic status play a role in both ones weight and social circle. A high stress lifestyle from a low paying job, and a greater than average exposure to pollution MAY contribute to weight gain. On the other hand, in the upper social classes there is extreme pressure to be thin at all costs.

Then too, DIETING makes people fatter. Even barely plump people are pressured into dieting. So friends encourage each other to diet, which means weight gain. Naturally thin people who have no need to diet may befriend each other because they have less in common with dieters. Again, I am not saying this is always the case, just enough of a trend to pick up statistically.

And how are these stats manipulated? MOST people gain weight as they get older, so there is going to be a far greater statistical correlation between friends gaining weight than losing weight. I wonder just how many people who befriended thin folk actually lost weight? I would be willing to bet not that many!

Seems like their is a sinister agenda behind this junk to deny the genetics behind body size and God knows what else!


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## volatile (Jul 25, 2007)

Jon Blaze said:


> I'M ALL UP IN UR BODY, MESSING WIT UR MUHTABOLIZM!!
> Now let's conga!



YES! LOL *Exactly* what I was thinking only with a bit more belly, preferably hanging over the pants.


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## Waxwing (Jul 25, 2007)

You guys, I don't feel good. I'm achy and my throat kind of hurts.

Do you think that I'm coming down with FAT? 

I knew I shouldn't have shared that soda.


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## AnnMarie (Jul 25, 2007)

Waxwing said:


> You guys, I don't feel good. I'm achy and my throat kind of hurts.
> 
> Do you think that I'm coming down with FAT?
> 
> I knew I shouldn't have shared that soda.



Are your thighs bubbling?? That's the first sign. 

You should rethink Labor Day, it's going to be a hot zone.


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## Waxwing (Jul 25, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> Are your thighs bubbling?? That's the first sign.
> 
> You should rethink Labor Day, it's going to be a hot zone.



There is some bubbling, yeah. Aw man is this like mono?

Last time I ever give you half my beverage, Ann Marie.


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## SuperMishe (Jul 25, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> None of my skinny bfs has caught it.
> 
> And they would have.
> 
> If you know what I'm sayin'.



Perhaps you have to be an actual CARRIER though - because the men in MY past life certainly gained weight when they were with me. :doh: 

I wonder if I should supply any future boyfriends with sterile gloves, gowns and masks?!

Does anyone know if these experts suggested chicken soup as a cure? :eat1:


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## AnnMarie (Jul 25, 2007)

Waxwing said:


> There is some bubbling, yeah. Aw man is this like mono?
> 
> Last time I ever give you half my beverage, Ann Marie.



In all seriousness, this is starting to piss me off the more I brew on it. 

(Not you, Waxy.)

I mean, if FAT is catchy in social groups, why isn't thin? Why anytime I work with thin people in a group setting for 40 hours a week haven't I become smaller? 

It's because 1) it's bullshit and 2) fat is BAD and it's something you FEAR, and it's something you CATCH!

I feel like I'm back in the Salem Witch Trials... and I know damn well I float in water, so I guess I'm next up on the stake?

And I'm not kidding, by their ridiculous train of logic, if hanging around with a bunch of fatties causes you to get fat if you're NOT already, then I think by expanding on that... my lifetime of being surrounded by smaller/thin people should have had some "beneficial" effect on me - no??

Huh, shocking it doesn't work in reverse when one thing is "good" and the other is "evil".


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## AnnMarie (Jul 25, 2007)

SuperMishe said:


> Perhaps you have to be an actual CARRIER though - because the men in MY past life certainly gained weight when they were with me. :doh:
> 
> I wonder if I should supply any future boyfriends with sterile gloves, gowns and masks?!
> 
> Does anyone know if these experts suggested chicken soup as a cure? :eat1:



Oh I'm staying the hell away from you then.... I'm at maximum capacity.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jul 25, 2007)

Ah, supporting the age old bullshit theory that women who like their bodies and enjoy the friendship of other women and enjoy food will be fat and die of a heart attack by age 30.

I love it.


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## Waxwing (Jul 25, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> I feel like I'm back in the Salem Witch Trials... and I know damn well I float in water, so I guess I'm next up on the stake?
> 
> And I'm not kidding, by their ridiculous train of logic, if hanging around with a bunch of fatties causes you to get fat if you're NOT already, then I think by expanding on that... my lifetime of being surrounded by smaller/thin people should have had some "beneficial" effect on me - no??
> 
> Huh, shocking it doesn't work in reverse when one thing is "good" and the other is "evil".



It IS like a witch trial. It's also suggesting that you shun those who have different body types. 

Maybe everyone should be put on an island. But wait...why don't we just genetically select against fat? Problem solved!

Hi, eugenics!

It is truly repulsive.


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## loggamatt (Jul 25, 2007)

At the risk of being shot down, I don't see why so many of you guys have trouble believing this?

It seems to me that it's very possible that your peers, who are people who influence the way you see yourself and the world, could affect your body image. If I'm a BBW who starves herself to try to be thin like her thin friends - as, I'm bombarded by them with living 'proof' that it's better to be thin - how would I react to befriending some confident, empowered BBW who felt attractive as they are? Would that not perhaps make me question whether I need/want to keep starving myself? Sure, in many cases it probably wouldn't, people are influenced by their peers to varying degrees depending on their personalities, but I could imagine that there are enough people who are significantly influenced by their peers for a statistical trend supporting this to exist.

Please note that the study said socially contagious and not virally contagious. It did mention that other studies have considered the possibility of a viral obesity contagion, but that it is unsupported.

Obviously, as with any study like this, it shouldn't be accepted at face value and statistical studies can be disproven. But I wouldn't necessarily reject it out of hand either.

Where I do disagree with the study as much as everyone else is that there's a clear implication throughout that being fat is bad. We on the boards know that (thankfully!!) not everyone believes that  But, whatever the motives and beliefs of the author of this research, I don't believe it necessarily makes their findings invalid. If someone wrote a paper saying "good news! We've found out that if you hang around with confident BBW, you're more likely to become a confident BBW and stop obsessing about your weight!" I think it would have been better received here, while essentially making the same point.


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## Tooz (Jul 25, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> In all seriousness, this is starting to piss me off the more I brew on it.
> 
> (Not you, Waxy.)
> 
> ...



I agree. Initially, I laughed at the ridiculous nature of the article. But, the more I thought about it, the angrier I became-- fat people endure enough hatred as it is, and crap like this is only going to make it worse. No wonder fat women are 50% less likely to attend college! Hell, look at the threads about my uni struggles and it's no wonder. Why PAY to be discriminated against?

It's just so sad.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jul 25, 2007)

loggamatt said:


> At the risk of being shot down, I don't see why so many of you guys have trouble believing this?



1) My size.
2) The various sizes of my friends.

Given, the people who I choose to associate with tend to respect my eating choices and control their own and enjoy food, so YMMV.


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## Tooz (Jul 25, 2007)

loggamatt said:


> It seems to me that it's very possible that your peers, who are people who influence the way you see yourself and the world, could affect your body image.



I don't think it's a hard concept to swallow, the tone of the article is where my beef exists.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jul 25, 2007)

Tooz said:


> I don't think it's a hard concept to swallow, the tone of the article is where my beef exists.



Exactly: It's the implication I am uncontrollable eater only kept in place by rigid rules. That just ain't the case.


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## loggamatt (Jul 25, 2007)

Tooz said:


> I don't think it's a hard concept to swallow, the tone of the article is where my beef exists.



Ok, understood. As I said, I'm as unhappy with the implication as everyone else. I just don't necessarily agree that it makes the findings of the study invalid.


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## pickleman357 (Jul 25, 2007)

I think, inside everyone there is a piece of us that wants to be fat. The being wrapped in the warm softness is very comforting.

So, my theory is that if a bunch of twigs hangs around bbw, they can _actually start *eating*, and enjoying life _because they'll still be _"thinner" _then their friend.

that's just my $0.02


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## Waxwing (Jul 25, 2007)

pickleman357 said:


> I think, inside everyone there is a piece of us that wants to be fat. The being wrapped in the warm softness is very comforting.
> 
> So, my theory is that if a bunch of twigs hangs around bbw, they can _actually start *eating*, and enjoying life _because they'll still be _"thinner" _then their friend.
> 
> that's just my $0.02



Yeah. BUT. That's implying that all thin people are such only through struggle and self-deprivation. I mean, whatever, I don't want to argue about that. I'm missing the point because I'm spacy right now.

Blee I'm tired.

You know what though? Write an article based on that premise. That would be awesome. And then submit it to the same rags that printed this.


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## pickleman357 (Jul 25, 2007)

Waxwing said:


> Yeah. BUT. That's implying that all thin people are such only through struggle and self-deprivation. I mean, whatever, I don't want to argue about that.
> 
> Not Everybody wants to be anything.
> 
> Blee I'm tired.



I know its not 100% of the thin population, I wouldn't be surprized if it was less then 20%.

I'm partially getting this from a coulple thoughts; The amount of weight loss commercial, and the said trick of looking thinner in your wedding photos by making your bride's maids look fatter.

There's be evidence here on dimensions of people having revalations about wanting to get bigger because they've found big beautiful people here to ... basically say that its okay to be big despite what soceity is blasting us with.

Just random thoughts, that's all


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## saucywench (Jul 25, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> Ugh, I'm sick of this shit... sick to death of it.


************ 
View attachment 23508

************ 
'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it: 
"I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"


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## saucywench (Jul 25, 2007)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Ah, supporting the age old bullshit theory that women who like their bodies and enjoy the friendship of other women and enjoy food will be fat and die of a heart attack by age 30.
> 
> I love it.


What, they don't become lesbians, too? :doh:


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## pani (Jul 25, 2007)

Some other thoughts. The purpose of the Framingham study was to uncover risk factors for heart disease. These researchers were using data from a study not designed for the purpose of examining relationships on weight. All the Framingham participants were volunteers. What did the term "friend" mean to them when they were filling out the forms? Obviously it meant different things to different people, which is why we see some people listing each other, while some do not reciprocate. Since it was not the studies original purpose, I doubt there was any attempt to assess the quality of the relationships. (Like how often they interacted, how close they were, etc.) Friend could be someone whose address they had on hand while filling out the forms to a true life long best friend. If the whole point of this study was to find out how friends influenced each other, but they really had no idea about the relationships themselves, they can't possibly draw any valid conclusions.

Really, the researchers contradict themselves when they speculate the size of one's reference group influences a person, then admit some friends live thousands of miles away. If they live that far, how could their size really impact someone? Really, who says well my friend 2 time zones away is fat, haven't seen her in 10 years, but hey, it must be o.k. for me to be fat too.


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## BeakerFA (Jul 25, 2007)

Well, that's it.. Starting next week, I'm befriending as many scrawny folk as possible. Who knows.. One of my best friends, a one-time anorexic, has gained over 100 pounds since my g/f and I first met her six years ago. At least I'll enjoy myself until they lock me up in a camp of some kind.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jul 25, 2007)

I don't know if hanging around fat people makes you fatter, but I'm pretty sure that hanging around with stupid people makes you dumber.

Every day at work I can feel a few more brain cells die...


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## chunkeymonkey (Jul 25, 2007)

Ok so if I hang out with tight asses does that mean I will become one ???? 

Studies like these always draw attention . Like any research there will always be a new study and major contradictions.


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## Jack Skellington (Jul 25, 2007)

People have way too much time on their hands to come up with this stuff.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jul 25, 2007)

saucywench said:


> What, they don't become lesbians, too? :doh:



Yes actually. How did you know?


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## saucywench (Jul 25, 2007)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Yes actually. How did you know?


I performed my very own bastardized, double-binded, placenta-controlled clinical trial. With funding from NOW, even. And the ACLU. And the Women's Christian Temperance Union. And the DAR. And Cosmopolitan Magazine. Yeah, that's the ticket. That's why.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jul 25, 2007)

saucywench said:


> I performed my very own bastardized, double-binded, placenta-controlled clinical trial. With funding from NOW, even. And the ACLU. And the Women's Christian Temperance Union. And the DAR. And Cosmopolitan Magazine. Yeah, that's the ticket. That's why.



This sounds totally valid. Do you have an organization I can throw some money at?


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## saucywench (Jul 25, 2007)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> This sounds totally valid. Do you have an organization I can throw some money at?


Yes. Please make check payable to The Society for the Eradication of Stupid Fucking Studies and Utter Waste of Taxpayer's Money. In return for your generous donation, you will receive a sheaf of unused voter registration cards replete with dangling chads.

Hey, it ain't much, but it's all I've got. :blink:


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## b01 (Jul 25, 2007)

I don't know what you all are getting mad about, this is GREAT NEWS.


Now I can get the fat body I've always wanted! Hey Ann Marie, can I hang around you so that I can get a set of great knockers like yours, I mean I know I'm a guy, but if I had gorgeous breast like those, I would be a HAPPY man!

After I get the body and boobs, I think I'll go hang around some African Americans, so I don't have to sit in the sun to get an awesome tan. 


WOW!! Why didn't they do this study sooner!?:doh:


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## AnnMarie (Jul 26, 2007)

Uhhhmmmmm.....

I'ya....

uhm


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## Sandie S-R (Jul 26, 2007)

I saw this on the news tonight, and I had two thoughts....

1. This will cause more employers to not hire fat people, out of fear that all their employees will become fat.

2. This will cause more thin people to ditch their fat friends and family members out of fear of becoming fat.

Do we really need another excuse for others to discriminate against fat people?

 

Enough is enough.

 

Junk science.


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## Tina (Jul 26, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> I mean, if FAT is catchy in social groups, why isn't thin?


They say it is, and that's why 'treatment' of us would work best in group settings.


> Why anytime I work with thin people in a group setting for 40 hours a week haven't I become smaller?


Yes, because it's bullshit.

I know I've said this before, but years back on the old main board, I said that eventually the treatment of fat people would be second only to pogrom of the Jews. Someone, I don't remember who, said (in effect) I was being offensive and stupid. I don't think so. I think that if the moneymakers find that we can be 'cured' and our fat made extinct, while all the while the moneymakers make gobs of money, they would do it quicker than a heartbeat.


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## Jack Skellington (Jul 26, 2007)

Tina said:


> Yes, because it's bullshit.



Totally. It boggles the mind how obvious junk science like the fat germ and Gay virus even makes the news.


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## Tina (Jul 26, 2007)

Fear mongering for fun and profit.


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## isotope (Jul 26, 2007)

I thought the article was interesting.

But seeing the response here, I think i'll change my feelings about it.

HOGWASH!


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## Russell Williams (Jul 26, 2007)

volatile said:


> _Other studies have suggested that obesity might be physically contagious, possibly passing from one person to another by virus. But that idea has not been firmly supported. The new study doesn't address this possibility but instead looked at mindsets and attitudes as the controlling factors._
> 
> Fat germs? For some reason I keep picturing the little fat Mucinex men clinging to skinny people and yelling "You sha'll be fat now! You cannot stop me!"
> 
> I guess whenever someone stares at me I can't say "Don't worry, you can't catch it!" anymore. LOL Man, these people are so far gone from actual reality it is scary.





So how do these germs get transmitted to others? Apparently not by sex. At the convenitons over the years I have seen a lot of very fat women with thin men who admire them and the thin men do not seem to all get fat over the years. 

And no I am not saying that all thin men who come to conventions engange in sexaul activity with fat women nor am I saying that all thin men who come to conventions never engage in sexual activity with fat women.


Russell Williams


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## Russell Williams (Jul 26, 2007)

b01 said:


> I don't know what you all are getting mad about, this is GREAT NEWS.
> 
> 
> Now I can get the fat body I've always wanted! Hey Ann Marie, can I hang around you so that I can get a set of great knockers like yours, I mean I know I'm a guy, but if I had gorgeous breast like those, I would be a HAPPY man!
> ...



Wonderful job of scarcasim. (but my spelling is not as wonderful)

Russell Williams


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## Russell Williams (Jul 26, 2007)

pani said:


> Some other thoughts. The purpose of the Framingham study was to uncover risk factors for heart disease. These researchers were using data from a study not designed for the purpose of examining relationships on weight. All the Framingham participants were volunteers. What did the term "friend" mean to them when they were filling out the forms? Obviously it meant different things to different people, which is why we see some people listing each other, while some do not reciprocate. Since it was not the studies original purpose, I doubt there was any attempt to assess the quality of the relationships. (Like how often they interacted, how close they were, etc.) Friend could be someone whose address they had on hand while filling out the forms to a true life long best friend. If the whole point of this study was to find out how friends influenced each other, but they really had no idea about the relationships themselves, they can't possibly draw any valid conclusions.
> 
> Really, the researchers contradict themselves when they speculate the size of one's reference group influences a person, then admit some friends live thousands of miles away. If they live that far, how could their size really impact someone? Really, who says well my friend 2 time zones away is fat, haven't seen her in 10 years, but hey, it must be o.k. for me to be fat too.




Or it is possible that fat people tend to be more friendly and so more people are likely to list fat people as their friends. 

It is possible that fat people are less likely to hang out with those thin people who are always giving them grief about their size.

It is possible that thin people who hang out with fat people start to realize that being fat is not then end of the world and so are in less terror of gaining weight and so gain some weight.

I wonder if aneroxics have a lot of thin friends. I wonder if hanging out with anorexics tends to make some people start to adopt some anorexic behaviors?

All of the above are simply questions that I do not know the answers to and hearing about one or two examples will not be considered as good scentific research.

Russell Williams


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## mateo4531 (Jul 26, 2007)

Good news for me. The more fat women the better!


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## CrankySpice (Jul 26, 2007)

So, yeah...front page news in our local paper today.  

*sigh*

I'm the only fat person (not just the only fat woman, but the only fat person) in a company that employs over 50 people. Very health conscious (sp? I hate that word) company, too. Almost everyone goes on daily walks during breaks, there've been weight loss support groups off and on, bowls of fruit are available almost daily.

No one, that I have noticed, has become fatter since I started working here except me. 

So.......yeah. :huh: 

Now I really REALLY want to go touch some of the "I'm so fat" people here who aren't at all fat. Just a little poke in the shoulder followed by, "TAG, YOU'RE FAT!" and then hand them the article.


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## Sandie S-R (Jul 26, 2007)

This came in my in box this morning from NAAFA, thought you all might find it interesting. ~ Sandie



> The report released today by the New England Journal
> of Medicine is flawed. These so-called researchers took collected
> data from an existing study whose focus was not on weight and size,
> the same study just used to report that diet soda is just as bad for
> ...


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## AppreSheAte (Jul 26, 2007)

In today's news there are scientific reports about how obesity is contagious. What I gathered from what I heard was that if you are friends with or involved with people that are gaining you're inclined to gain too. It is a combination of social perception, acceptance, and predisposition. 

It really makes sense to me. If you enjoy being with people that act or look a certain way, you obviously want to be accepted by them, and you probably want to act more like them. If they are enjoying good food, and don't mind being bigger or getting bigger, there is probably a greater likelihood that you will also start enjoying food more, and not be as sensitive about or inclined to watch your own weight, but simply share the same outlook of those around you that you enjoy being with.

Obviously this website is detrimental to anyone's waistline that appreciates big beautiful women. Although it seems that many big beautiful women prefer their partners small, psychologically, it simply seems more likely that encouraging enjoyment of good food, appreciating fuller figures, or simply preferring the personalities of those that have rounder, curvier bodies will lead to being rounder and fuller.

Well, I'm off now to get some coffee, and some donuts, and I can't wait until lunch. I'm starving! lol


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## Waxwing (Jul 26, 2007)

Yeah, there's a pretty good discussion going on here:

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26578

Check it out. 

Oh now I want donuts too.


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## Tori DeLuca (Jul 26, 2007)

Sandie S-R said:


> I saw this on the news tonight, and I had two thoughts....
> 
> 1. This will cause more employers to not hire fat people, out of fear that all their employees will become fat.
> 
> ...



Shit....
When I read this report that was EXACTLY my thought.
I mean they discriminate already, saying obesity is a chronic condition therefore giving them reason NOT to hire because of 'insurance liabilities' Now this???

Arizona is a 'right to work' state therefore most discrimination laws dont even have a basis here. Someone I know VERY well, God love her, applied for a poistion at a modeling agency as a front desk secretary. They BEGGED her to come in for an interview because she had all the qualifications they wanted etc. Once she waltzed in, thier tone changed. That was because they got a glimpse of her 350 pound body. And they TOLD HER SO. That she portrayed an 'image' that wasnt one they wanted to project to potential clients.
She sued.
They admitted what they said in court.
They agreed it was discrimination.
She STILL lost the case.

Studies like this worry me because it just reinforces the stereo type that 'fat is bad'. We all better run, because it may even be contagious now. Sheesh.


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## JimboÂ° (Jul 26, 2007)

It's a good new........


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## pani (Jul 26, 2007)

Here is yet another flaw, that was reported in another version of the article. The junkscience study did not look at any friends OUTSIDE of those reported in Framingham. The whole point of the study was to determine the influence of social networks on one's weight, but they had NO IDEA of who was really in their network. It is possible a person could have had ONE friend listed in the study who was far away, yet five thin friends they see every day never included in the research. The more I read the details, the more absurd this study gets.


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## Fuzzy Necromancer (Jul 26, 2007)

Hmm, somebody beat me to posting this.

>.>

<.<


In other news, a rain of poisonous snakes terrorise the east coast! A male cow gave birth to a two-headed Ann Coulter! Flying skulls have broken loose in the city of brotherly love! The beast has risen from the pit to make war upon Bruce Cambell! The entire nation of china has caught fire! Fire, death, devastation, reanimation, and the rise of the fourth reich! MAAAAADDNESSS! MAAAAAAADDDNNEEESSS! MAAAAAAADDDDDDDNEEEEESS!  

*runs around like a chicken with its head cut off*


Yeah, this seriously peeves me off. On the plus side, all the comments on the page seem equally incredulous and outraged. Just further prove that MSN news is only slightly more reliable than Weekly World News or The Sun.


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## Fish (Jul 26, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> I feel like I'm back in the Salem Witch Trials... and I know damn well I float in water, so I guess I'm next up on the stake?



You raise an interesting analogy here, and an accurate on, I think. I've read and reread this both here and where I FIRST saw it, as a headline story on CNN.com. (One of a couple of anti-fat stories that somehow merited top story status this week at cnn.com) I don't think i'm imagining intent here. I feel that the REAL purpose of this article is to further push the demonization of fat people. It's not a new idea, but this pathetic attempt at psudo-science to create fear in people is disgusting. I can't believe I live in a world where scientists are essentially saying it's OKAY to avoid certain people because of they way they are... because you could become like THEM! Key word there... "Them". In that article, while they may not directly say it, it's written from the perspective of the thin person looking down at the fat person. The thin person is the first person narrator of sorts, and the fat people are the "Other". Defining people by what they are, not who is about as low as one could get.

There have been a few funny jokes about how if this is true, could hanging around gay people make ME gay and the like, and I got a kick out of them... Then I THOUGHT about it more and took that train of thought further down the track. Could you imagine this article and the stink it would raise if you replaced "Fat" with "gay"? Or "Fat" with "Black"? It would show that article for the fear-mongering hate manifesto it is.

I'm actually angrier after writing this.


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## T_Devil (Jul 26, 2007)

Try to use that as an excuse to call into work:

"Yeah, I can't come into work today."
"Why not? You have the flu?"
"No, I got *THE FAT.*"

Spare me. Fat as a contagious illness? What would you even call that? _Second-Hand Fat_? Talk about your paranoia. It's like when AIDS first broke out on the scene and people thought you could get it just by looking at a gay guy. Some people are just really f*ckin' stupid. :doh: 

I'd have read the whole article, but I can feel it unleashing stupidity on my entire brain. Thank God for Attention Defficit Disorder!


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 26, 2007)

T_Devil said:


> Try to use that as an excuse to call into work:
> 
> "Yeah, I can't come into work today."
> "Why not? You have the flu?"
> ...



I owe you rep for Second-hand Fat......:bow:


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## Waxwing (Jul 26, 2007)

From Editor & Publisher:



> CHICAGO If the article on The New York Times Web site Thursday reporting that obesity can spread like a virus triggered déjà vu -- it's probably because it was anticipated almost exactly three years ago by the satirical weekly The Onion.
> 
> "Study Says Obesity Can Be Contagious," read the headline above the Times article by health reporter Gina Kolata.
> 
> ...



When the Onion spoofs you IN ADVANCE, you know you're stupid.


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## Ned Sonntag (Jul 26, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> Oh I'm staying the hell away from you then.... I'm at maximum capacity.


 Oooh that's hot.:wubu:


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## Ned Sonntag (Jul 26, 2007)

pani said:


> Some other thoughts. The purpose of the Framingham study was to uncover risk factors for heart disease. These researchers were using data from a study not designed for the purpose of examining relationships on weight. All the Framingham participants were volunteers. What did the term "friend" mean to them when they were filling out the forms? Obviously it meant different things to different people, which is why we see some people listing each other, while some do not reciprocate. Since it was not the studies original purpose, I doubt there was any attempt to assess the quality of the relationships. (Like how often they interacted, how close they were, etc.) Friend could be someone whose address they had on hand while filling out the forms to a true life long best friend. If the whole point of this study was to find out how friends influenced each other, but they really had no idea about the relationships themselves, they can't possibly draw any valid conclusions.
> 
> Really, the researchers contradict themselves when they speculate the size of one's reference group influences a person, then admit some friends live thousands of miles away. If they live that far, how could their size really impact someone? Really, who says well my friend 2 time zones away is fat, haven't seen her in 10 years, but hey, it must be o.k. for me to be fat too.


 Isn't Big Cuties based in Framingham? The epicenter of the etiology!!


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## butch (Jul 26, 2007)

Am I the only one to notice that this study seems to be the same crap that "The Secret" said: don't look at fat people or you'll gain weight? Really, now that new age mumbo jumbo and the NEJM are claiming the same thing, we know we're in the End Times.

Was a fat person one of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse?


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## Seth Warren (Jul 26, 2007)

Since they've been trying to pass a smoking ban around where I live, I've read a lot of angry letters to the editor from bitter addicts saying, "if they ban smoking because it's unhealthy, why don't they ban fatty foods as well?" The answer has always been a simple "duh" response: nobody shoves fatty foods into your mouth and forces you to swallow, but it's hard to contain smoke and unreasonable to ask anyone nearby who doesn't wish to partake of your nicotine stick to hold his or her breath.

So, now I'm wondering if this "study" wasn't secretly funded by the tobacco industry, perhaps as an act of revenge. Fudged facts seem to be their forte...

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to take a break from posting. I feel like I'm coming down with Teh Phat _and_ Teh Ghey.


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## Waxwing (Jul 26, 2007)

Seth Warren said:


> nobody shoves fatty foods into your mouth and forces you to swallow,



Man you take that shit to the Weight Board.


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## pani (Jul 26, 2007)

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/357/4/370

Here is the study from the NEJM. I can't seem to find how the weights of the friends who were not involved in Framingham were determined. At one point it said the study participants provided detailed information on family members and at least one "close" friend at 7 intervals. So the weights of the friends of nonstudy participants were estimated????? Maybe someone else can find what I am not seeing?


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## Surlysomething (Jul 26, 2007)

I can't even watch this video clip. It seems almost every day CNN has something to say about overweight people in their main "news" board.

I think it's bogus crap. I'm pretty sick of this made up news, maybe they should spend more time reporting on actual news stories. 

Oh, sorry. :doh: That would make too much sense. My bad.


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## Big D Guy (Jul 26, 2007)

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18888&highlight=Contagious


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## EtobicokeFA (Jul 26, 2007)

Of course, it might be something far more dangerous, at least in their minds, than fat that is being passed around.

It's omg
*BODY ACCEPTANCE!!!!!!!!!*


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## pani (Jul 26, 2007)

Sandy Szwarc has posted a very good article on her blog. I may have had my disagreements with her, but if she writes something fantastic, I will be the first to give her credit. This article is worth of dissemination:

http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/2007/07/oh-what-tangled-web-we-weave-sir-walter.html


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## Caligula (Jul 26, 2007)

While it is a rather close mided view they have I guess they are right. If you spend all your days around people 300 pounds and bigger than I'm sure you would gain weight. Just as if you spent your time around computer nerds or jocks...either or you would become more of what they are.


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## saucywench (Jul 26, 2007)

View attachment 23565

================


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## pani (Jul 26, 2007)

Caligua, they are NOT right. That is not what the study found. It found that weight gain in friends had an impact even if they were hundreds of miles away and hardly saw each other! 

Also, forget my previous question. I think all those in junkstudy were in the original study. I read so many confusing media accounts, I had to keep on going back to get it straight.

"Fat can be beautiful. Ignorance and intolerance are ALWAYS ugly."


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## kr7 (Jul 26, 2007)

Caligula said:


> While it is a rather close mided view they have I guess they are right. If you spend all your days around people 300 pounds and bigger than I'm sure you would gain weight. Just as if you spent your time around computer nerds or jocks...either or you would become more of what they are.



Bulldinkies! I'm around morons all day, and my IQ keeps on getting higher, not lower. If you actually do become the person you are hanging out with, it's not so much because it's catching, as because you have no spine or personality.

Chris


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## T_Devil (Jul 27, 2007)

Caligula said:


> While it is a rather close mided view they have I guess they are right. If you spend all your days around people 300 pounds and bigger than I'm sure you would gain weight. Just as if you spent your time around computer nerds or jocks...either or you would become more of what they are.


*Really?*

I need to start hanging around RICH people!


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## butch (Jul 27, 2007)

saucywench said:


> View attachment 23565
> 
> ================



I wanted to rep you, but I can't, Saucy. Great image, and so true.


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## saucywench (Jul 27, 2007)

butch said:


> I wanted to rep you, but I can't, Saucy. Great image, and so true.


Rep ain't no big deal to me, butch, although I appreciate the comments I get. I'm just glad _somebody_ 'got it.' 

Oh, and appreciation also goes to the anonymous artist. I would have lent attribution if I knew who it is.


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## Keb (Jul 27, 2007)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...7/07/25/DI2007072501452.html?hpid=discussions

One of the study's authors spoke about it in an interactive discussion.

He says over and over again "More friends make you healthier." Probably true, BUT the problem is he's jumping immediately from correlation to causation AGAIN. Maybe healthier people have more friends because of discrimination? The ability to go more places? 

The flaw in his reasoning for both his own study and those he cites is astoundingly simple.


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## pani (Jul 27, 2007)

For what it is worth, I am going to post this on every political board I come across. If anyone out there is completely bored and wants to point out typos, I suck at editing:


I am no longer surprised by the sleeze, underhandedness and outright lies of the mainstream media anymore than I am by Brittany's Speers latest publicity stunts. Yet, when I read headlines like Fat Friends are Bad for Your Health, I see they are taking yellow journalism to a whole new shade of pale! These amazing conclusions are based on a new study by James Fowler and Nicholas Christakis in Julys NEJM. The premise is that if we have fat friends, we wont feel so fat ourselves, so we will have the nerve to think we might be o.k. the way we are. Really, it doesnt sound so bad to me. Except that scientifically speaking, that assertion, based on THAT study alone, is about as weak as Dick Cheneys old pacemaker. 

One of its first flaws is that it was based on data from a study designed for a completely different purpose. Yes, Framingham is a well respected research project. But it was designed to look at risk factors for heart disease, NOT the relationship between friendship and weight. Study volunteers were asked to provide contact information about friends and relatives so researchers would not lose track of them. Many of those friends listed were also study participants. From that contact information, Christakis makes one of the major assumptions of his own study, that the respondent put down a friend they admired. And if they admired them, perhaps they also emulated them. Lets think about this. When you are asked to give contact information for work or other such purposes, do you put down the person you admire most? Personally, I put down the person with the most stable resident history. Or the one I know wont mind being bothered. Or, quite honestly, sometimes someone I like least whose info I happen to have on hand so my true friends wont be ticked at me for giving out their address. We have no way of knowing how close these friends were, or if the participants admired them or not.

Unclear relationship to the listed contacts are only the beginning of this studys problems. If we are going to design a study that examines the influence of our friends weight on ourselves, how should we do it. Would it be reasonable to ask a person how many friends they have? How close they are? How often they interact with them? How many are thin? How many are fat? You bet it would!!!! But this study did none of that! All it did was look at people listed in the contact info who also participated in Framingham. So we have no clue how many other friends a person had or what size they are. Such incomplete research leads to inexplicable results. Friends hundreds of miles from the participant had an influence, but neighbors had no effect. Theoretically, it was possible for someone to have one far away fat friend they rarely see weigh more heavily (pun intended) in influence than several thin friends, neighbors and co-workers nearby. Absurd!!!!!!!

Astonishingly that was not the most bizarre finding in this study. Jeanna Bryner of LiveScience explains If subjects named an obese person as a friend, they tended to be affected by that person's obesity. But when the person on the receiving end did not label the first person as a friend, there was no "obesity contagion" effect in the other direction. The distinct variable here is who calls whom a "friend." Huh???? Basically it works like this. If Tom put down Harry as a friend on his contact sheet and Harry gained weight, Tom also had a higher risk of gaining weight. If they both put down each other, their risk was even higher. But if Harry put down Tom and Tom did not reciprocate, Tom had no increased risk of weight gain. In other words, if you admire a fat person you are in trouble. If a fat person admires you, you are safe from a cellulite attack. At least that is how Dick (oh I guess it is Nick - it just seems there should be a Dick in there somewhere!) interprets it. In the first scenario Harry serves as Toms reference group so Tom doesnt mind his tummy too terribly. But are we so SURE that in the 3rd scenario (Tom doesnt put Harry down as a contact) means he doesnt admire him? That they are not friends? Maybe Tom knew Harry already put him down as a contact so he wanted to give a 3rd person as additional backup. Or a million other reasons. We just dont know!!!!!

Ignorance of the true nature of the relationship did not stop Christakis from using this rather strange finding as a way to dismiss one of the most important questions ALL studies that try and determine a cause and effect relationship need to ask. Could something else be causing them both???? Personally, I dont think they did enough to take social class into account. (They did control for education, but it is not a complete indicator of social class.) Their is an association between social class and obesity in the U.S. Poor people are heavier statistically. People also tend to befriend people in the same socioeconomic status. So maybe, social class affects both ones weight AND the friends you have. Christakis claims that if that were the case, there would be the same results in all 3 of the above scenarios. That the Toms dont gain weight when they dont list the Harrys back is enough for him there cant be some intermediate or antecedent variable at work. (Fancy research talk for something that was affecting both their weights besides friendship) Who knows??? Maybe Tom was in a higher social class. In which case, statistically he would be at greater odds of staying thin. And at greater risk of being a big old snob which may why he didnt put down poor Harrys name on his contact sheet after Harry was nice enough to name him. Again, we just dont know!!!!

Yet even this is not the most questionable aspect of this study. That honor goes high tech. It turns out that much of this study was based on computer modeling. You can try to read the study itself, but certain parts will leave your head spinning. This is not always an accident in reporting research. When lay people read it, they come away with the feeling it is so over their heads they should leave it up to the experts. When experts read it, many would never admit to being confused so the just give it thumbs up or down depending on whether or not they agree with the results. The low down on computer models is that they are based on assumptions. Start with one set of assumptions, get one set of results. Start with different assumptions, and get entirely different results. One can get anything one wants with computer models. Which is not really proving anything at all!

Not, of course, that the media needs proof, truth, or scientific standards to turn this into the admonition that even looking at your fat friend will raise your cholesterol. It is all about pleasing one of their major sponsors, Big Diet/Pharma. To save space, lets just call it BARFMA. BARFMA has reason to worry of late. Used to be peoples number one worry was their weight! Since BARFMA has spent millions terrorizing us it should be proud! But the times, they are a changing! Weight obsession is a product of an affluent society. Our economy is sinking faster than Bushs approval ratings. Our dollar is down against other currencies, and so are are home prices. Gas is UP, and so is food and everything else. Just wait till peak oil. We are drowning in debt both personally and nationally. We face unprecedented environmental disaster, possibly even famine. Even the honey bees are deserting us. Silly Americans are realizing they might have other things to spend their shrinking cash on besides shrinking their waistlines. So the efforts of the dietary-pharmaceutical complex must get even more heavy handed. It is not enough just to scare people about their own health. They must live with the guilt their very presence on earth is a danger to their loved ones. They must be ostracized into action. Diet products are one way obscene amounts of cash gets sucked up from the middle class to the corporate elite and that conveyor belt cannot stop! Especially since so many of us found out about that Haliburton thing.

There are two types of people that should not only ignore this study, but be outraged by the headlines it generated and the uncritical way it has been promoted in the media. Fat folk themselves who need to wake up and see they are nothing more than walking dollar signs to BARFMA; and, friends everywhere who believe relationships should never be contingent on a price tag! Or a measuring tape!


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## Chubbyadmirer86 (Jul 27, 2007)

Waxwing said:


> When the Onion spoofs you IN ADVANCE, you know you're stupid.



Priceless! Funniest thing said on this board.


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## waldo (Jul 27, 2007)

Keb said:


> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...7/07/25/DI2007072501452.html?hpid=discussions
> 
> One of the study's authors spoke about it in an interactive discussion.
> 
> ...



*"BUT the problem is he's jumping immediately from correlation to causation AGAIN."*

That statement says it all. Many of these studies make a big leap by concluding that something is a cause of something else just because there appears to be a statistical correlation. But that said, I think for many people they may be less adverse to allowing themselves to gain a little weight if their friends would also do so. Although most of us would like to think we are very independent, peer pressure is quite powerful for most of us.


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## QuantumXL (Jul 28, 2007)

So basically what their saying is Obesity is a form of peer pressure, but without the pressuring? uuhh this is confusing, but don't you choose to be big? I guess we're just setting a new trend i suppose?


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## waldo (Jul 28, 2007)

QuantumXL said:


> So basically what their saying is Obesity is a form of peer pressure, but without the pressuring? uuhh this is confusing, but don't you choose to be big? I guess we're just setting a new trend i suppose?




No it is more like there is peer pressure to stay thin amongst some social circles (and in some work environments as one person posted above). The obesity may be more likely in cases where your social circle includes other obese people and the peer pressure to be thin is not there. And it is not like people choose to be big but more so may choose to stop fighting their body's natural tendency to be bigger.


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## pani (Jul 28, 2007)

I have daily kosed my above piece:



http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/7/28/84516/3178

Anyone want to fight back against this nonsense? For further info, please see post and internet warriers and spiritual akido in Hyde Park!


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## chickadee (Jul 28, 2007)

Change the adjective "fat" to "black" or "people of color." You have the same kind of rationalizations that people used to argue why their children shouldn't go to school with black kids. 

They're operating on the assumption that "Fat" is undesirable. "Fat" is the new, socially acceptable form of discrimination. People used to say that individuals of color had undesirable traits that would be "contagious" if their children spent time with them. Now the traits have shifted to "fat" people. 

Some of the survey methodology also troubles me. Sloppy. They're not using a random sample and they're misusing data to twist it into a bigoted theme.


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## EtobicokeFA (Jul 28, 2007)

chickadee said:


> Change the adjective "fat" to "black" or "people of color." You have the same kind of rationalizations that people used to argue why their children shouldn't go to school with black kids.
> 
> They're operating on the assumption that "Fat" is undesirable. "Fat" is the new, socially acceptable form of discrimination. People used to say that individuals of color had undesirable traits that would be "contagious" if their children spent time with them. Now the traits have shifted to "fat" people.
> 
> Some of the survey methodology also troubles me. Sloppy. They're not using a random sample and they're misusing data to twist it into a bigoted theme.



You hit it right on the target!


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## pani (Jul 29, 2007)

I posted my article on several non SA boards and I am happy to report my response is far more postive than negative. In fact, I am getting a far better response outside the SA community than within it! Thank you do those who went to Daily Kos, it looks like at least one person was from SA.

I also wrote a letter to Dr Christakis telling him, no holds barred, EXACTLY how I feel. He wrote me a civil response saying they did not intend to stigmatize yada yada and they have no control over how the media portrayed the story. I am not completely buying that!!!! Other stories that are potentially sensitive, such as HIV are handled in a way to minimize stigma. Furthermore, he has ties to the Robert Woods Johnson Foundation. They have influence over the media, in fact the have sponsored several shows. MacNeil Leher did a segment on these piece that was full of praise, not ONE criticism. Studies should ALWAYS be held up to scrutany, it is academic tradition and the media used to at least include some counterpoints. NOT ONE!!!! So happens the Robert Woods Johnson Foundation has been a sponsor of the MacNeil Leher newsletter! I supposed a lowly MA like me has lots of nerve sounding off to a Harvard PhD. OH WELL

p.s. He said he doesn't want to stigmatize fat people cause he has relatives who are "quite heavy." How many times have I heard, I'm not prejudice my best friend is __________


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## Surlysomething (Jul 29, 2007)

http://www.bellinghamherald.com/317/story/140081.html


another opinion editorial piece from this Betsy Hart chick..it showed up in the Vancouver Province's opinion editorial section...I was glad I was scarfing down a dense chocolate brownie at the time :eat2: 

-she also doesn't believe that global warming is primarily a man-made condition

-is also against the production and consumption of organic food

She's a real winner.


she reminds me of "Dr. "skeletor" Laura


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## gangstadawg (Jul 29, 2007)

T_Devil said:


> *Really?*
> 
> I need to start hanging around RICH people!


i was thinking that too.


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## Caligula (Jul 29, 2007)

T_Devil said:


> *Really?*
> 
> I need to start hanging around RICH people!



lol, come on now. Really. If i spent all my time hanging around people who were obese (the natural assumption is that they eat unhealthily, so work with me here) I'm sure I would gain weight. I'm not saying that it is physically contagious but I get what they are trying to hint at..no mater if it is a slander at the fat community or not.


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## Caligula (Jul 29, 2007)

pani said:


> Caligua, they are NOT right. That is not what the study found. It found that weight gain in friends had an impact even if they were hundreds of miles away and hardly saw each other!
> "



Ok, well that is proboly bullshit...unless you lived online in some sort of community where fat is ok.  I wish everybody did.... lol!


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## Jon Blaze (Jul 30, 2007)

Surlysomething said:


> http://www.bellinghamherald.com/317/story/140081.html
> 
> 
> another opinion editorial piece from this Betsy Hart chick..it showed up in the Vancouver Province's opinion editorial section...I was glad I was scarfing down a dense chocolate brownie at the time :eat2:
> ...



300,000 people my ass. Even if it was the overstated statstic (IN EXCESS OF 4.....hundred....thousand!! OMGZZZZZ): It would only be .06% of the people that are overweight/obese that would be killed. A more accurate number (Which I think Kate referenced to [Or Sandy.. I forgot which one :doh: ) would be 25,000 if I remember correctly?


.06%?!?!??!! HOLY SHIT!!! HOLY SHIT!!!! HOLY SHIT BATMANNNNN!! I CAN'T GOEZ OUTSIDE CUZ DUH FAT WILL CATCH ME OMGZZZZZZZ!!!

Of course this comes when:
A. I'm yet to hear any television references to the "Fat on the inside" article.
B. The main stipulation of this hysteria is based around the assumption that every obese person is eating in unhealthy amounts (And/or type), which would be the more accurate determinant of health in itself than weight on its own (Health is both subjective and objective). Of course our scientists don't want to separate lifestyle and bodyweight, because apparently they can be used interchangeably. 
C. Only on a rare occasion will you hear the truth that is "Sedentary thin people are far more unhealthy than active, obese/overweight people."

What's the usual number of years that is claimed to be taken off because of obesity in itself (Which wouldn't include acute things such as heart attacks [Which a recent study concluded obese people are more likely to survive them than thin people anyway just as an example  ]? Between 1-13.
What's the number of years that can be taken off by eating <1000 or >4000 calories per day, of a non-balanced intake without variety like candy (Which you can actually lose weight off of) *regardless of bodyweight* ? Ummm.... About 20.  

It's ok!! Your arteries can't get clogged if you're thin! Just eat what you want, and you'll be ok if you never get fat!!
O RRY?
Why am I hearing comments similar to this from people MY AGE???!!?!? WAI?!??!!?!??!? *Shakes Fist* 

But you'd never hear that (Unless of course it's "OKKKK.. just don't get fat LOLOLLLZZZZZZZ" "Yes Doctor."  ). They just don't want to be around ze fat, cuz it is teh disgusting apparently.

It is highly accurate to say that some doctors will refuse to perform duties for obese people because of their disgust with them. That kind of thinking should never happen in a medical setting PERIOD.

Let's not forget almost no one touches on the subject of the exceptions of the rule. It's said that 5% of overweight/obese people just can't lose the weight. Even if that were true, it would be higher than the number that are killed supposedly (Just a couple million people... but that's nothing compared to holy shit .06% omgzzzzzz....  ).

This isn't on you, but I had to do a little rant-de-rant.
Someone that commented on Kate's shakesville blog stated one of the most succinct comments I've heard on the whole thing (Verbatim):
Not taking in any exceptions to these sets of rules:
"Eat right, and exercise: Everything else is bullshit."


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## Jon Blaze (Jul 30, 2007)

Caligula said:


> lol, come on now. Really. If i spent all my time hanging around people who were obese (the natural assumption is that they eat unhealthily, so work with me here) I'm sure I would gain weight. I'm not saying that it is physically contagious but I get what they are trying to hint at..no mater if it is a slander at the fat community or not.



It is accurate to say that in _some_ situations you can be _influenced_ by the people you are around, but the basis of this article is based around that assumption (Even moreso than just some: He's saying you shouldn't be around them period, which is not only going for correlation to causation, but it's also a brash generalization that obese/overweight people are all the same, and that the friend-to-friend relationship is almost indirectly parasitic in a sense in regards to this), which is one of the many problems behind it. 

It might have been a good idea on paper, but it wasn't executed correctly. If it would have just simply said "We are sometimes influenced by the people around us" rather than saying "OMGZ DUH FAT IS CONTAGIOUS!! RUNZ AWAY!! Mebbe we can influence ppl 2 b thin," it might have been taken more lightly by people that analyze it the way many of us here have.
I'm thin, but I've also taken enough social science classes to know this is a load of shit at best. 
That's why psychology is that *real* social science.    

Just kidding: Social sciences in themselves are not bad: Just some of the people in them.


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## T_Devil (Jul 31, 2007)

Caligula said:


> lol, come on now. Really. If i spent all my time hanging around people who were obese (the natural assumption is that they eat unhealthily, so work with me here) I'm sure I would gain weight. I'm not saying that it is physically contagious but I get what they are trying to hint at..no mater if it is a slander at the fat community or not.


I still don't get it.

So like, if a person hangs around a fat friend, that fat friends eating habits will have an influence on that person? And here I thought we could choose what we wanted to eat or what we didn't want to eat.

It all comes down to personal choice and what what we choose for ourselves. We can choose for ourselves if we want an extra piece of pie or not. We can't make other peoples decesions for them, be we can be held accountable for our own. If a person gains weight while hanging around an overweight friend, they made the choice to follow the overweight friends example. Nobody forced them.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jul 31, 2007)

Let me explain it to you:

People who don't judge others based on size are NATURALLY weak followers and ALL fat people grossly overeat. I mean, I went out for a business lunch, and just because there were some fat people there, I ate about six entire cakes. It's true.



T_Devil said:


> I still don't get it.
> 
> So like, if a person hangs around a fat friend, that fat friends eating habits will have an influence on that person? And here I thought we could choose what we wanted to eat or what we didn't want to eat.
> 
> It all comes down to personal choice and what what we choose for ourselves. We can choose for ourselves if we want an extra piece of pie or not. We can't make other peoples decesions for them, be we can be held accountable for our own. If a person gains weight while hanging around an overweight friend, they made the choice to follow the overweight friends example. Nobody forced them.


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## Caligula (Aug 1, 2007)

T_Devil said:


> I still don't get it.
> 
> So like, if a person hangs around a fat friend, that fat friends eating habits will have an influence on that person? And here I thought we could choose what we wanted to eat or what we didn't want to eat.
> 
> It all comes down to personal choice and what what we choose for ourselves. We can choose for ourselves if we want an extra piece of pie or not. We can't make other peoples decesions for them, be we can be held accountable for our own. If a person gains weight while hanging around an overweight friend, they made the choice to follow the overweight friends example. Nobody forced them.



I never said they forced them too. but many people are not strong. They are sitting there and a friend has an extra slice so they do to....you see?


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## Caligula (Aug 1, 2007)

Jon Blaze said:


> nced by the people around us" rather than saying "OMGZ DUH FAT IS CONTAGIOUS!! RUNZ AWAY!!



Course, but than who would read it? That's a hell of a headline in todays society.


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## Tina (Aug 1, 2007)

Caligula said:


> I never said they forced them too. but many people are not strong. They are sitting there and a friend has an extra slice so they do to....you see?


You are operating under the stereotypical assumption that all fat people eat their way to fatness. That is not an opinion embraced by this board, as we know that's not the whole story. It's also backwards, sizeist thinking.

You know, the biggest eaters I have ever seen have been skinny males. I'm guessing that those funding and performing "the study" (and all others who continue to promote hatred of fat) would never say that high-volume-eater skinnies would make those around them gain weight simply because they eat so much. It's only us fatsos who compel others to shove food into their pie holes and gain weight.


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## isotope (Aug 1, 2007)

It's an interesting to look at the reactions from this board to this article.

Personally, I see some truth to the idea.

But before you pick up your torches and your witty one liners to shoot me down, let me say this.

There's truth to the idea based upon behavior. I think that the article might have taken a few jumps to reach the conclusion and the tone is all blah.

So, whether some of you would like to admit it, there are people out there who do eat themselves fat. Just like there are asians out there with buck teeth and have funny accents.(ex. William Hung)

Before you're offended, realize that strereotypes do not encompass everyone, since everyone is unique and what have you.

The idea is that if you're around people who eat junk, there's a very good chance you'll eat junk too. Not because you're a mindless drone, but simply by being around it so much, you might give in. I'd say look at some married couples who are celebrating their 20th, 30th or 40th anniversary. You'll find that they might have picked up habits(either social, personal or eating) from one another. 

So, devil's advocate done.

You may resume being offended.


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## Gspoon (Aug 1, 2007)

Its true! My girlfriend's friend sneezed on her and she blew up to 230! Itsa curse I tells ya...

Its weird if it is. If you are hanging around someone who is fat, then I dont think you'll gain weight. But if you are hanging around someone who is constantly eating, and you feel like you should eat too... then I think it is a social thing. Other wise... FAT ISNT CONTAGIOUS!


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## Jon Blaze (Aug 1, 2007)

Caligula said:


> Course, but than who would read it? That's a hell of a headline in todays society.



You're right, and that's really sad that scare tactics are the way that things get by.

"I bet I can make fat seem more immoral than you can make it seem!!!" 

"O RRY???"


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## T_Devil (Aug 1, 2007)

Caligula said:


> I never said they forced them too. but many people are not strong. They are sitting there and a friend has an extra slice so they do to....you see?



No. I still don't see.

If a person chooses to have an extra slice, that's their choice. They can also decline to have another slice. It's not about fat being contagious, it's about people being weak willed. If THAT is the case, then being fat has nothing to do with it at all.

There must be accountability. If a person cannot say no, THEY are the ones held accountable, not the person who is already fat. It's paranoid thinking that really is not helpful.


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## pani (Aug 1, 2007)

It that is true Isotope, why did the study find a fat friend hundreds of miles away had MORE of an influence than a neighbor or spouse. Why did it not find that different sex friends influenced each other? Whether or not some fat people eat alot, and whether or not this study proved obesity is contagious are two different issues.

I said to myself I wasn't going to post anymore on this issue, but since I did... the study also failed to take into account the Hawthorne effect. This holds that awareness of being studied has an independent effect on behavior. Every person knew they were going to be weighed every 3 years. Maybe those who didn't gain weight when a fat friend listed them but they didn't list them back is because they were very afraid of gaining weight. I have noticed that many people afraid of weight gain avoid ANYONE even mildly fat like the plague. I have even know people to snub people who have fat family members or spouses. (I am not saying all weight conscious folk are like that, only enough it could possibly show up in the stats.) We have no way of knowing if this loony toon results would hold for a population not being weighed, poked and prodded every 3 years.


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## J34 (Aug 1, 2007)

Wow this is ridiculous! Yet intriguing at the same time. If you think about it in a negative sense then yea how can you affect the way people live their own lives since they are an indivdual and they make their won decisions. On the other hand every who is overweight can start hanging out with all the skinny people. Sooner or later everyone will be fat and no one will feel bad or isolated because of their weight we will all be equal


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## Russell Williams (Aug 1, 2007)

If we start with the seemingly false premise of the article, being around fat people makes you gain weight, then here is an opportunity for NAAFA to improve its finances.

Charge anorexics to attend NAAFA dances. If fat is catching they can dance with a fat person, and another, and another, and another. They can sit at a table and talk with fat people. In some instances they can go swimming with fat people. If fat is catching than the anorexics will catch fat.

Since some insurance companies or family members pay thousands and thousands of dollars treating anorexics NAAFA could probably reasonably charge $300-$500 for each treatment. If the research is valid then anorexics will gain weight and thousands of anorexics and or their insurance companies will be pleading to be next in line for their clients to be able to catch fat.

10,000 anorexics per year at $500 per treatment, $5 million a year for a couple of years should definitely improved NAAFA's financial situation.

If my conclusions are nonsense than the premises of the research are nonsense. Feel free to quote me to anyone who tries to rub your face in this study.

Yours truly,

Russell Williams


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## bigplaidpants (Aug 1, 2007)

*Warning*: reflections of an untamed cynic

I respect those who've flamed, interrogated, and/or deconstructed this article. It is propaganda, not science. But, what makes it propaganda is not "information intended to manipulate the public." Of course, on the whole, we are a public waiting to be manipulate. But, what I mean by propaganda is that it is designed for mass consumption. In a news-market like ours, consuming is enough because the intent is more consumption.

The determining factor in producing "news" like this is not its scientific verifiability or methodology, or even its wit, entertainment, or poetics. The question is, will it sell. We all know fear and loathing sells. Anything with the word "contagious" in it sells. It sells like crazy. In this case, fat-phobia, fat-hatred and fat-phobic hysteria sells. 

I dare say, neither the Bible nor the Constitution are exempt from this simple truth. They're printed in quantity b/c "people will read it." 

<igor, with his copy of the Wall Street Journal, wrings his hands>

This "news" isn't _ultimately _accountable to anyone but the shareholders of the news outlets reproducing it. Unfortately, they know that fat folk and fat-phobics alike will be interested in "news" like this.

In the end, the truth of whether "Obesity is Contagious" is immaterial - something for scientists and activists to work out. 

Isotope and Caligula are given too much credit. I haven't seen them come up with anything interesting, yet, in regards to the topic at hand except to give variations on "if someone does it alot (like get fat), others will, too." (I mean this as a critical observation, not a put-down). 

This kind of group-think or mass psychology will always be persuasive because it reflects the logic of mass consumption. In the end, it forms a kind of logic-circle. Whether "news" or "science," the stuff that sells, sells. It has to have this kind of logic or it goes out of business. Why else would the same media outlets (whether internet, print, or television) that produce "10 ways to perfect hair," or "Lohan from rehab to DUI in 11 days" also run a story like "Obesity is contagious."

Like yawning and puking, many will always believe that something mindless and "socially contagious" will have "the truth" lurking in it somewhere. This is the sad truth of a world that has no standards but mass produced information. (Yea to pani, btw, for making this reality to her advantage)

Yawning and puking are contagious. You ever been on a plane when it starts? *Well then!* 

We know this is true of terrorists, too. Our current national security and defence is built on this "truth." If you hang out around alot of terrorists terrorizing, then you'll become a terrorist, too. 

Well, obviously, it's true of fat people, too. 

AM and others are right: true or not, this kind of crap has the stench of 19th Century racist science and 17th Century witch hunts.


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## Caligula (Aug 2, 2007)

Tina said:


> You are operating under the stereotypical assumption that all fat people eat their way to fatness. That is not an opinion embraced by this board, as we know that's not the whole story. It's also backwards, sizeist thinking.
> 
> You know, the biggest eaters I have ever seen have been skinny males. I'm guessing that those funding and performing "the study" (and all others who continue to promote hatred of fat) would never say that high-volume-eater skinnies would make those around them gain weight simply because they eat so much. It's only us fatsos who compel others to shove food into their pie holes and gain weight.



"sizeist"... Lol, I wonder if that will ever go main stream. Anyways the perception is that overweight people eat more. Sure it's a steryotype, but there is a bit of truth to every steryotype out there. I'm not saying that it's because all fat people sit around shoving pizza in their face all day, but if someone is with a fat person and they see that that person is overweight or somthing than they may think "Well I won't really be noticibly hevier if I am around him/her." I know when I go visit my sister I probly gain a few pounds if I am there for a long time because she is pretty big and loves to cook/eat. Don't misunderstand me, I think it's just a flashy headline and is not somthing that anyone should really take seriously, as in avoiding fat people or somthing like that, but in it's base sense I can see what they are saying. Of course all they are saying is that peer pressure works this way as well so it's not exactly news. Hell if you look in the stories section there are a bajzillion stories about some skinny girl sitting around with fat friends and who starts to gain weight. Of course it's fiction, but it just shows that the views of our own at least slightly mirror the meaning of the study.


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## fatlane (Aug 2, 2007)

Ever notice how there's never a Big News Story® about how dieting contributes to obesity? All those fat panic stories, and not one about the mental bankruptcy of dieting...

Maybe being around fat people makes people fatter because they all agree to diet together, hmmm? I dunno... or maybe if we didn't have such a hang-up about conformity, size wouldn't even be an issue?


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## bigplaidpants (Aug 2, 2007)

Caligula said:


> .... Sure it's a steryotype, but there is a bit of truth to every steryotype out there. .... in it's base sense I can see what they are saying. Of course all they are saying is that peer pressure works this way as well so it's not exactly news. ....it just shows that the views of our own at least slightly mirror the meaning of the study.



This couldn't have illustrated my point better. Thank you.


stereotype = bit of 'truth' + stereotype. brilliant.

peer pressure + 'our own views at least slightly mirror the meaning of the study' = what I read sounds alot like what me and my friends already believe! Golly, it must be 'true.'

I'm done spending time on this. Thanks for the fun.


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## waldo (Aug 2, 2007)

bigplaidpants said:


> This couldn't have illustrated my point better. Thank you.
> 
> 
> stereotype = bit of 'truth' + stereotype. brilliant.
> ...



It is fortunate we have such wise and intelligent people around here to set the wayward-thinking fools straight.


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## bigplaidpants (Aug 2, 2007)

waldo said:


> It is fortunate we have such wise and intelligent people around here to set the wayward-thinking fools straight.



Haha. Does this somehow apply?: _"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."_  

Should I say, "Thank you" or touche!


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## fatlane (Aug 2, 2007)

bigplaidpants said:


> Haha. Does this somehow apply?: _"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."_
> 
> Should I say, "Thank you" or touche!



Say both and leave him guessing.


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## Jane (Aug 2, 2007)

Interviewer: Well, I see you are overweight. Tell me, do you have any friends who are overweight as well?

Fat Girl: Well, yes, I have a friend who lives 1/2 way across the country, and she is overweight.

Interviewer: I knew it!!!!!! It's all her fault. I hope she's happy.


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## fatlane (Aug 2, 2007)

Heck, lots of people here are friends and, uh, I don't know how to say this, but...





some of you are kinda fat...

Coincidence? I think not.


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## yrmangledheart (Aug 16, 2007)

I haven't read this entire thread as I am very tired so I don't know the general consensus but what I do know is that it seems fairly obvious to me.

The bigger the girl I am dating at the time or, more accurately, the more she eats, the more I tend to eat. If I am in a relationship with a bigger girl who eats a lot then nights in tend to turn into snack-filled nights for both. 
If I am with a tiny skinny friend who rarely eats or only eats healthily I will tend not to eat as much or, if I do, not huge fattening meals. However, if I am with a bigger dude or someone who eats lots of food or junk food I will tend to eat out at the same places, same time and so on.
When my family are on a health kick and the food in the house is healthy I will tend to eat in turn, shunning fattier foods and big plates for smaller portions or if there is fattening food around I will dig into that.

This isn't to say I am exclusively influenced by other people's eating patterns. If I am particularly hungry and my partner/friend/relative isn't I won't deny myself on their behalf or eat food they specify. I just think most people's eating habits are in tune with those they spend the most time with. 

I remember a time a few years ago when I was dating a girl who was particularly big, around 300 pounds at 18 years old. She had no problem whatsoever letting her eating reflect this and, although I have never been greatly overweight, this was probably when I was at my largest. I feel it was definitely due to the relationship. I remember we constantly influenced one another into eating large meals or fast food and we were always snacking. Like meets like.


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