# pick up lines.



## Russell Williams (Feb 20, 2008)

A womon asked me about parts of NAAFA that were not about women meeting men. I pointed out that activism is seldom popular and wondered about the following

At a dance, for a man to say, "There is a pharmancy nearby that does not have comfortable seating for fat people. How about you and I bolting this joint and going to the pharmancy and complaining about the lack of seating for fat people" would probably not be a good pick up line.

Any of the women here ever have a man use that pickup line on them?

If so how effective was it?

Russell


----------



## Russell Williams (Feb 20, 2008)

If that line would not work, what has worked with you?

Russell


----------



## CAMellie (Feb 20, 2008)

:huh::huh::doh:


----------



## Jes (Feb 20, 2008)

I think you're going to need to rephrase your question so that we can better understand it, Russell Williams.


----------



## D_A_Bunny (Feb 20, 2008)

"You look beautiful, would you care to dance?"

I think that just being at a size related event is activism in a sense. I think that when the participants leave and go back to their regular lives is when the real activism begins. Being in a fat friendly situation gives a lot of people the confidence and push that they may need to be more of an activist.

I went to my first convention with my husband so I was not looking to pick up a man. I was however, looking to meet a fat girl that I could be friends with since all of my friends were thin. I was very lucky and met a fabulous lady who I am best friends with to this day, ten years later.

Just my little story for the day.


----------



## Russell Williams (Feb 20, 2008)

People complain that dances are meat markets and yet when given a choice between trying to improve life for fat people in general and their own dating life it has been my expierence that most people want to meet eligable members of the opposite sex more then they want to spend time trying to make the world more accepting of fat people.

I suspect that the proposed activism pick up line will prove my point. Most commenters will ridicule it and those who tell what line works will probably be listing lines that have noting to do with improving the lives off all fat people in general but do increase the likeyhood that the person getting fed the line will increast their personal chances of finding a suitable temporary or permanet partner.

So meat market in actuality may triumph over networking for activism

Russell


----------



## Jes (Feb 20, 2008)

Russell, I'm asking a question here that doesn't exactly follow your thread--my apologies.

But you've mentioned often that your daughter suffers from autism, and that you feel there's a hereditary connection in those suffering from autism, right? I don't want to connect dots that you haven't connected, but am I right in remembering that you've posted about your own struggles with autism in the past?


----------



## D_A_Bunny (Feb 20, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> People complain that dances are meat markets and yet when given a choice between trying to improve life for fat people in general and their own dating life it has been my expierence that most people want to meet eligable members of the opposite sex more then they want to spend time trying to make the world more accepting of fat people.
> 
> I suspect that the proposed activism pick up line will prove my point. Most commenters will ridicule it and those who tell what line works will probably be listing lines that have noting to do with improving the lives off all fat people in general but do increase the likeyhood that the person getting fed the line will increast their personal chances of finding a suitable temporary or permanet partner.
> 
> ...




I guess I am confused. I only offered my "pickup" line because your original post referenced a dance. Silly me. I think you might be mixing apples and oranges here. I would think that when one goes to a dance or other social gathering they are expecting to mingle and have a good time. If they want to, or are expected to participate in activism, they should probably know that before they arrive.
If your question is how do we get more people to participate in activism for size acceptance as a whole, as opposed to, find a mate for themselves, I don't think that was quite clear from the original posting. Or, as my run on sentence can tell you, I may just be confused right now.

Oh well, just saying...


----------



## Dr. Feelgood (Feb 20, 2008)

DumbAssBunny said:


> "You look beautiful, would you care to dance?"
> 
> I think that just being at a size related event is activism in a sense. I think that when the participants leave and go back to their regular lives is when the real activism begins.



Bingo! Everything you do in public is activism because it influences others. It's very tempting to think that other people have their acts together and know what they're doing, but really they're just making it up as they go along, just like you and me. And just as we watch other people to see how they manage, other people are always watching _us_ to see how _we_ manage. We're all students, and we're all teachers.


----------



## BeaBea (Feb 20, 2008)

DumbAssBunny said:


> I think that just being at a size related event is activism in a sense.



I completely agree! Some days, and for some people, even leaving the house counts as activism and I applaud them for it.

As for a pick up line... I might be too shy to dance (yes, honestly!) but why not just smile and ask if I'm having a nice time? If I respond then move on to maybe asking if I know many people here, if I've been here before and then, if we have a little rapport, offer to buy me a drink. 

That would work on me and I've also used it to meet other people at all kinds of events from business meetings to wedding receptions. Its non offensive, non sexual and works on men and women from 8 to 80. It's not so much a pick up as just being polite.

Tracey xx


----------



## guitarguyCO (Feb 20, 2008)

I don't like or use pickup lines. Just say whatever you're thinking!


----------



## Fyreflyintheskye (Feb 20, 2008)

try: "Hello, my name is ____. That outfit's so becoming on you. If I were on you, I'd be coming, too."


----------



## Sugar (Feb 20, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> A womon asked me about parts of NAAFA that were not about women meeting men. I pointed out that activism is seldom popular and wondered about the following
> 
> At a dance, for a man to say, "There is a pharmancy nearby that does not have comfortable seating for fat people. How about you and I bolting this joint and going to the pharmancy and complaining about the lack of seating for fat people" would probably not be a good pick up line.
> 
> ...



This is a kin to two people meeting at a gathering with a bunch of animal rights activists and a man asking "So you wanna go rough up some dock workers?" Uh thanks, Stud, but no.

What's wrong with the standard "Can I buy you a drink?"

Maybe I'm easy, or maybe I'm just a lush but that works as far as someone getting their foot in the door with me everytime.


----------



## Zoom (Feb 20, 2008)

In my opinion, activism is not a very good chat-up. It's a call to action, but not _that_ sort of action.


----------



## bmann0413 (Feb 21, 2008)

Pick-up lines never worked for me... that's why I don't use 'em...

So I just be my awesome and charming self! But that doesn't seem to work either... WHAT DO YOU WOMEN WANT?!


----------



## BeaBea (Feb 21, 2008)

bmann0413 said:


> WHAT DO YOU WOMEN WANT?!



We're compiling the list. We'll get back to you! 

Tracey xx


----------



## Gspoon (Feb 21, 2008)

"Are you an astronaut? Cause I want to have sex with you"

"How would you like to gain (Say YOUR weight) For (Say a time limit)"

"Does this rag smell like Chloroform to you?"

And my favorite...

"This is a pick up line! There, am I cool now?"


----------



## Fairest Epic (Feb 21, 2008)

Hrmm pick up lines that have worked on me

1. "Don't worry i'm not hitting on you" haha
2. "Excuse me ma'm but does this smell like chloroform to you"
3. "Why dont we take a little trip to your narrows where you can ride my man cannon"
4. "hey gorgeous"
5. hey there...just so you know all my base are belong to you
6. I wanna make you scream like a boga lizard

explanations: 
#3 is a nerdy pick up line...there is a halo 3 map called narrow and on that map there are mechanisms known as man cannons

#4 may not make me laugh, but it makes me blush and giggle with gleee everytime i hear it. Teusday night, gorgeous was replaced with beautiful. But yanno...gorgeous beautiful, dollface....all work for me...haha

#5 video game humor
#6 star wars humor...gotta love the nerds at cons!haha


I adore the nerd ones...i mean seriously..if you want to me to ba all over you like mynocks on the millenium falcon, go this route. haha


----------



## Fairest Epic (Feb 21, 2008)

ShakenBakeSharleen said:


> try: "Hello, my name is ____. That outfit's so becoming on you. If I were on you, I'd be coming, too."




haha oh dear God....


----------



## SparklingBBW (Feb 21, 2008)

If I'm standing in my kitchen and someone says to me:

"Your buns are on fire!" I'm gonna reach for a fire extinguisher. 

If I'm standing at a BBW dance and someone says to me: 

"Your buns are on fire!" I'm gonna reach for his hand and say, "Come on then baby, let's stop, drop and roll!" :wubu:


I think an area NAAFA Chapter meeting would be a better place to propose marching over to the pharmacy to protest their seating.


----------



## Fairest Epic (Feb 21, 2008)

haha thats absolutely adorable!



Genarose54 said:


> If I'm standing in my kitchen and someone says to me:
> 
> "Your buns are on fire!" I'm gonna reach for a fire extinguisher.
> 
> ...


----------



## LisaInNC (Feb 21, 2008)

The way I interpret this is...He is saying that what in the hell does gathering in a group in a bar thats been rented out for your specific party have to do with activism? Going to a bar that has not been rented out for a private party and infiltrating is activism. Marching in parades; activism. Talking to any journalist who will listen about the plight of overweight people; activisim. 
So how can you connect going to a party where you know everyone is ok with your fat, activisim?


----------



## LisaInNC (Feb 21, 2008)

Best pickup line for me was...wanna go in half on a fuck trophy?
Worst.........You wanna fuck me dont you? (to which I replied, Id rather masturbate with a cheese grater)


----------



## Fyreflyintheskye (Feb 21, 2008)

LisaInNC said:


> The way I interpret this is...He is saying that what in the hell does gathering in a group in a bar thats been rented out for your specific party have to do with activism? Going to a bar that has not been rented out for a private party and infiltrating is activism. Marching in parades; activism. Talking to any journalist who will listen about the plight of overweight people; activisim.
> So how can you connect going to a party where you know everyone is ok with your fat, activisim?



I lmfao'ed (laughed my fat arse off )... I should know better than to read one of Lisa's posts (er, chatlines/txts/anythings) at work before picking up my office phone in preparation. I have to pretend I'm actually talking to someone so they don't lock me away for laughing at spreadsheets!


----------



## TallFatSue (Feb 21, 2008)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Bingo! Everything you do in public is activism because it influences others. It's very tempting to think that other people have their acts together and know what they're doing, but really they're just making it up as they go along, just like you and me. And just as we watch other people to see how they manage, other people are always watching _us_ to see how _we_ manage. We're all students, and we're all teachers.


Absolutely. Even though I led a perfectly happy life before Dimensions came along, it's even better now that I can share experiences with other fat women. 

Methinx the best form of fat activism is simply to be the best woman I can be. Let's face it, at my size I attract attention, like it or not. So I may as well make a virtue of necessity and use the attention to best advantage. One reason I readily agree to give presentations in my job is to show people that an obese woman can be as professional and productive as anyone else, if not more so.


----------



## mango (Feb 21, 2008)

*The Good

"What's a sexy woman like you doing in a dirty mind like mine?"


"I'm new in town and can't find my way around, could I have directions to your place?"


"What's your name?"


"See my friend over there? He wants to know if you think I'm cute."



The Bad

"Hey, I was just thinking of you! Okay, I'm all cleaned up now though."


"How would you like your eggs for breakfast: scrambled, boiled or fertilized?"


"What do you say we go back to my place and do some math? Add the bed, subtract the clothes, divide the legs, and multiply!"


"You might as well sleep with me because I'm going to tell everybody we did it anyway."


"Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that was a Braille name tag."


"Baby, we're like two banks - we both have interest in each other and we should merge!" 



& The Ugly

"Can I buy you a drink or do you prefer the cash instead?"


"If you've lost your virginity, can I have the box it came in?"*


----------



## TallFatSue (Feb 21, 2008)

DumbAssBunny said:


> "You look beautiful, would you care to dance?"


Oh I've heard a few notable pick-up lines over the years.

Crass:
"Holy @#$%&! You're the biggest @#$%& woman I've ever seen in my life!"
"You look like you need someone who's man enough to handle you."
"Hey baby, nice big ass, bend over again." (as I reached down into a frozen food case).

Class:
"When I saw you enter the room, I said to myself, there's a woman who knows her own mind."
"Why are all the good women like you already taken?" (from a man who actually noticed my wedding ring)
"Are all the women in the States as big and beautiful as you?" (in a tango hall in Buenos Aires, Argentina)

My all-time favorite pick-up lines happened when I was an internet novice back around the turn of the millennium, and a message suddenly popped up on my screen.

He: Hey baby, you have all them fat curves, you are so fine, can you help me?
Me: What's the problem?
He: I have this pressure and I need to release it.
Me: Go ahead and burp.
He: No it's lower than that.
Me: Then maybe you'd better open all the windows.
He: No it's in front.
Me: Sounds like you have more pressure than bubble wrap.
He: Yeah can you help me?
Me: Well, when I need to take care of bubble wrap I usually run over it several times with my desk chair.


----------



## Fyreflyintheskye (Feb 21, 2008)

ohhh, Internet pick up lines deserve their own thread. We could go on for years!! With just yahoo and Dims chat alone. LOL!!! :doh:  

:: fluffymcbunnyfeet: will you have my baby bunnies? your fluff will keep them warm::

::antman: please step on me. i am so small and you are SO BIG::

don't even get me started on myspace lmao :huh: 

::teeth:: (yes, I know you post here lol I've seen you!!) "I'd pounce on you and have like 20 of your babies!" LOL


----------



## TraciJo67 (Feb 21, 2008)

ShakenBakeSharleen said:


> try: "Hello, my name is ____. That outfit's so becoming on you. If I were on you, I'd be coming, too."



I married the man who used that charmer on me


----------



## NYSquashee (Feb 21, 2008)

Saving this one for when I want a bottle broken over my head in a bar:

"So sweetheart, how much to trade places with that stool you're sitting on?"


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus (Feb 21, 2008)

Let's see:

Put your hand on my ass, and whisper in my ear:

"You're not big enough for me, but, I could feed you real good."

Then smile at me like I must have loved your compliment - keep smiling as I walk away.

Yeah yeah - true story.


----------



## NYSquashee (Feb 21, 2008)

Wow, that's one of the worst I've heard in a while.


----------



## David Bowie (Feb 21, 2008)

i like ya mind ya body your soul your figure
i wanna bring ya real close so i can squeeze ya like a trigger





ahahah


----------



## Pookie (Feb 21, 2008)

:blink: at whatever the original question was... but...

Want to share my favourite real life (internets is WHOLE 'nother story) was waiting in a bar for a bunch of people from my teaching circle to arrive, but I was early and this guy, in a red polo neck, so my immediate thought was not to hang with him as that uniform clearly meant he was expendable pretty soon lol... but I declined a drink, he then said 

"can I name my guitar after you?"

 yuh huh

I was then thankfully saved by a very big hairy dressed in leather friend from my group.


----------



## D_A_Bunny (Feb 21, 2008)

Pookie said:


> :blink: at whatever the original question was... but...
> 
> Want to share my favourite real life (internets is WHOLE 'nother story) was waiting in a bar for a bunch of people from my teaching circle to arrive, but I was early and this guy, in a red polo neck, so my immediate thought was not to hang with him as that uniform clearly meant he was expendable pretty soon lol... but I declined a drink, he then said
> 
> ...



You mean, like a real guitar, or just something he strums?


----------



## Pookie (Feb 21, 2008)

oh my... I always thought he meant a real guitar, never pondered any other meanings :blink:


----------



## Maxx Awesome (Feb 21, 2008)

bmann0413 said:


> Pick-up lines never worked for me... that's why I don't use 'em...
> 
> So I just be my awesome and charming self! But that doesn't seem to work either... WHAT DO YOU WOMEN WANT?!



The only line that will ever work on women:
"My two favourite things are commitment & changing myself."

Think of me when you're having the best sex of your life, pal.


----------



## Keb (Feb 21, 2008)

bmann0413 said:


> Pick-up lines never worked for me... that's why I don't use 'em...
> 
> So I just be my awesome and charming self! But that doesn't seem to work either... WHAT DO YOU WOMEN WANT?!



Me? I want attention! The sort where you actually remember some of what I'm saying ten minutes into the conversation...or at least, if you forget, you were distracted by my beautiful eyes or something sappy like that.

That'd do for starters.


----------



## Fyreflyintheskye (Feb 21, 2008)

Fairest Epic said:


> Hrmm pick up lines that have worked on me
> 
> 1. "Don't worry i'm not hitting on you" haha
> 2. "Excuse me ma'm but does this smell like chloroform to you"
> ...



nerds, geeks, programmers, guitarists, pianists... all very dexterous/nimble and curious lol. 

just saying. 

:batting:


----------



## Fyreflyintheskye (Feb 21, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> I married the man who used that charmer on me



lmao  hey, that is ballzy stuff. he must hez cöjonez, huh lol


----------



## Ernest Nagel (Feb 22, 2008)

Genarose54 said:


> If I'm standing in my kitchen and someone says to me:
> 
> "Your buns are on fire!" I'm gonna reach for a fire extinguisher.
> 
> ...



Rep is SO unfair! This woman posts SO seldom but her every thought drips with BBW wisdom and insight! Will someone kindly rep the living crap outta her (not just for me, for the luvva G-d and whatever's right.)? Smokin', smokin' smokin', keep them buns a' tokin'! Rawwwwhiiiide! Get'em UP, move'em out! Rawwwhhiiiiide!


----------



## duraznos (Feb 22, 2008)

i know one that does NOT work: 

"pssssst! pssssst! pssssst!"


...while i'm in line at walgreens trying to check out.


----------



## LalaCity (Feb 22, 2008)

Eh...nobody's ever tried to pick up on me with the line, "let's go to a pharmacy with comfortable seating..."

...which is too bad because I love Longs! I like to go there at 2 am and rifle through the toy section...

Come to think of of it, nobody's ever really used a cheezy/memorable/bad pick-up line on me that I can remember...

...I'm starting to feel a bit deprived, actually!

I'd add this: the great majority of people on earth want to have some sort of romantic partnership at some point in their lives...

...only a very small percentage, on the other hand, feel inclined toward some form of concerted daily activism (selfishness being a rather intrinsic biological fact of our being, and all)...


----------



## mango (Feb 22, 2008)

*.... Aye babe.... I'm da best!

I gotta cumftabool seat right ova 'eeeere!!


*


----------



## Renaissance Woman (Feb 22, 2008)

Russell, here's another one that wouldn't work: 

"I'm sure there are some women here at this BBW dance that are familiar with clothing stores for large women. Maybe they could help you out."


----------



## LillyBBBW (Feb 22, 2008)

Guy: "My but you're a pretty girl! Tell me love, do you have any Irish in you?"
Me: "No, I don't think so."
Guy: "Would you like some, love? *g*"

One of my favorite lines.


----------



## Maxx Awesome (Feb 22, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> Guy: "My but you're a pretty girl! Tell me love, do you have any Irish in you?"
> Me: "No, I don't think so."
> Guy: "Would you like some, love? *g*"
> 
> One of my favorite lines.



Wasn't that Phil Lynnot?

Oh & here's a guaranteed way to get laid:
Slather your torso in baby oil, slick your hair way back, wear tight leather trousers & a shiny silver shirt (unbuttoned). Get a friend to dress identically. Hit the nightclubs & proclaim yourselves to be "Hans & Jose, The Sexy Brothers". One of you speaks with a bad German accent, the other adopts a bad Mexican dialect. Pepper your speech with a few choice words & phrases of your chosen country of origin & make sure to continually thrust your groin in the region of the woman you most desire.
Mastering the dance seen in the follwing video will greatly improve your chances for some lovin':
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxFh4eAGSpU&NR


----------



## Fairest Epic (Feb 22, 2008)

haha wow that's pretty dang beautiful right there



Maxx Awesome said:


> Wasn't that Phil Lynnot?
> 
> Oh & here's a guaranteed way to get laid:
> Slather your torso in baby oil, slick your hair way back, wear tight leather trousers & a shiny silver shirt (unbuttoned). Get a friend to dress identically. Hit the nightclubs & proclaim yourselves to be "Hans & Jose, The Sexy Brothers". One of you speaks with a bad German accent, the other adopts a bad Mexican dialect. Pepper your speech with a few choice words & phrases of your chosen country of origin & make sure to continually thrust your groin in the region of the woman you most desire.
> ...


----------



## Russell Williams (Feb 26, 2008)

Renaissance Woman said:


> Russell, here's another one that wouldn't work:
> 
> "I'm sure there are some women here at this BBW dance that are familiar with clothing stores for large women. Maybe they could help you out."



Actually I was not trying to pick up that woman. I was trying to get her to accept herself at start living at the weight she was.

As best I remember she told me that she knew that she did not dress well but it made no sense to buy nice clothing untill she got back to her normal weight of 160 instead of the 230 she was at as we spoke.

Russell " How long have you been at 230"

Woman "15 years"

Russell " Lady 230 is your normal weight. Start enjoying life now and stop waiting for the return to 160"


----------



## Keb (Feb 26, 2008)

Russell, I'm sure you mean well, but you can't make a girl accept or like her weight anymore than her mother, "friend", concerned neighbor can make her lose weight. It's just not that simple.


----------



## Maxx Awesome (Feb 26, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> Actually I was not trying to pick up that woman. I was trying to get her to accept herself at start living at the weight she was.
> 
> As best I remember she told me that she knew that she did not dress well but it made no sense to buy nice clothing untill she got back to her normal weight of 160 instead of the 230 she was at as we spoke.
> 
> ...



Smooooooooooooooooth...


----------



## butch (Feb 26, 2008)

Keb said:


> Russell, I'm sure you mean well, but you can't make a girl accept or like her weight anymore than her mother, "friend", concerned neighbor can make her lose weight. It's just not that simple.



Keb, I wish he would listen to the dozens of women here at Dims over the years who have told him this very thing. He chooses not to hear us, alas, and that is why I don't know that he does mean well. If he did, he'd actually internalize what he's been told, and adjust his behavior accordingly.


----------



## Fairest Epic (Feb 26, 2008)

If I were an Enzyme I'd be a DNA Helicase so I could unzip your genes.


hehe gotta love the nerdtacular ones:wubu:


----------



## themadhatter (Feb 26, 2008)

mango said:


> *.... Aye babe.... I'm da best!
> 
> I gotta cumftabool seat right ova 'eeeere!!
> 
> ...



Aye. That's a good one thar.

Also try (in Brooklyn speak): Ehhh, 'ow youu doin'?  (ya gotta wink)

And the ever popular:

"You want to see my spaceship?"







Why the eff did I start out talking like a pirate???


----------



## Maxx Awesome (Feb 26, 2008)

Never forget the all-important rule. When in doubt... whip it out!


----------



## Fuzzy Necromancer (Feb 26, 2008)

I've never understood why people use pick up lines. I don't see how they're supposed to work. Is the woman supposed to respond "Wow, that was such an amazing display of verbal whit that I'm going to agree to have sex with you!"


----------



## Fairest Epic (Feb 26, 2008)

Maxx Awesome said:


> Never forget the all-important rule. When in doubt... whip it out!





hahahahahahaahahaha


----------



## Littleghost (Feb 27, 2008)

BeaBea said:


> We're compiling the list. We'll get back to you!
> 
> Tracey xx



The copy center I work at could definitely use the money, wanna print it there?


----------



## Keb (Feb 27, 2008)

I'd probably respond to "Wanna see my spaceship?" just for the nerdiness factor. Besides, if he's actually got one...how cool would that be?


----------



## Jes (Feb 27, 2008)

butch said:


> Keb, I wish he would listen to the dozens of women here at Dims over the years who have told him this very thing. He chooses not to hear us, alas, and that is why I don't know that he does mean well. If he did, he'd actually internalize what he's been told, and adjust his behavior accordingly.


You know...in relation to this, I'm still hoping Russell answers my question in this thread. He doesn't have to, of course, and I would never have pursued my line of inquiry if he hadn't brought it up himself (opening the door, to keep the trial metaphor going!) but... I'm just gonna spit out my thinking, here. I think Russell has told us he suffers from autism, yes? And I'm also guessing that explains much of his behavior both in the 'real world,' and with the way he makes posts here, asking questions of us. We all have to admit he does so in a very specific style, right? Out of context, kind of stiff and formal and signed: Russell Williams. I want to throw out the possibility that I'm onto something here...and more to the point, that getting upset with him, or engaging him, or debating him or belittling him might be a bit like yelling 'learn to read!' at a dyslexic.

Now, this may be very offensive. I wanted Russell to kind of... answer the question so that I could gauge whether or not I thought it would be constructive to bring this up with everyone who reads his threads. Maybe I've done a bad thing, and maybe he will feel called out, so let me be sure to say I'm not saying: SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH YOU, BAD RUSSELL WILLIAMS, DO IT ON THE PAPER! That's not my intent. But the same thing happens with most of the exchanges here, and I really think there's one thing tying all of this together. Don't you? (communal you.)


----------



## Russell Williams (Feb 28, 2008)

Jes said:


> Russell, I'm asking a question here that doesn't exactly follow your thread--my apologies.
> 
> But you've mentioned often that your daughter suffers from autism, and that you feel there's a hereditary connection in those suffering from autism, right? I don't want to connect dots that you haven't connected, but am I right in remembering that you've posted about your own struggles with autism in the past?



About 10 years ago, for while, Johns Hopkins Hospital was studying my family. They were trying to decide if I was an extreme of my father and my daughter was an extreme of me. What ever happened to the study and what conclusions were I do not know.

There are times when, in spite of the fact that I get upset by rejection, I can continue to do and say things that I think are important. 

I have a long history of doing this. In Sunday school class when I was in about the eighth grade, I stated that I would not automatically rule out of marriage partner possibilities a woman of a different color than I. In a segregated Southern community they had special names for people like that.

In the early 60s I would go into restaurants and tell them they should take down the signs that said, "colored serve to take out only". I did it alone and I got a lot of rejection from a lot of people who would explain at length and loudly why it was an extremely bad idea to suggest that black people and white people be allowed to be in the same restaurant. After all, it might lead to interracial dating.

In the late 60s I decided that the United States was not going to win in Vietnam and that lives and money were being thrown away even though the government said if Vietnam became communist all of South East Asia would become communist. I expressed the opinion that the United States was not going to win and, that if the Communists took over all of Vietnam that did not mean that all the rest of Southeast Asia would promptly become communist. This again was an extremely unpopular opinion. People would forcefully explained to me that we would win in Vietnam, we were winning in Vietnam, there was light at the end of the tunnel, and that by winning in Vietnam we would save Southeast Asia from communism.

Then in the 70s I became involved in the size acceptance movement.

Some people seem to feel uncomfortable when I signed myself as Russell Williams. Would they prefer to use the name my fellow members of the volunteer ambulance service gave to me, "the Professor"?


----------



## Russell Williams (Feb 28, 2008)

butch said:


> Keb, I wish he would listen to the dozens of women here at Dims over the years who have told him this very thing. He chooses not to hear us, alas, and that is why I don't know that he does mean well. If he did, he'd actually internalize what he's been told, and adjust his behavior accordingly.



How do fat women become convinced that they are ugly and socially unacceptable? I assumed that it is by being told over and over and over that they are ugly and socially unacceptable.

How do fat women become more self accepting? I would think and believe that it is by being told in many places and by many people that they are a lovely and socially acceptable. I seem to remember reading the fat women who say that reading dimensions columns and boards has helped to improve their self-image. I remember a woman at a dance commenting that three days at a NAAFA convention did more for her self-image than three years of psychotherapy.

My voice alone is an ignored voice crying in the wilderness but if my voice is part of a mighty chorus then there are some who will hear the chorus and begin to agree with what the chorus that in many forms and many bodies is saying, "fat women can be beautiful and you are beautiful".

Yours truly,

The professor


----------



## Jes (Feb 28, 2008)

Russell, I think we've all stood up for things we don't agree with, in one way or another, and that's not really my issue, here. I'm not questioning your belief system, but more your...style, shall we say? You encounter a lot of resistance here and sometimes, that resistance overshadows the points you're trying to make. And I just wonder if there isn't also something else going on, something that might explain the difference in styles or communication patterns and that, if addressed, might help everyone to come together. KNow what I mean? And you can sign yourself any way you like--Russell Williams, The Professor, Mary Anne, the King of France. I wouldn't dream of telling you how to refer to yourself.


----------



## BeaBea (Feb 28, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> About 10 years ago, for while, Johns Hopkins Hospital was studying my family.....



Russell,

I read your reply to Jes with interest, and you are to be applauded on a lot of your actions. Are you aware though that you haven't given any kind of meaningful answer to the question she's very tactfully asking you? Personally I find some of your posts to be astonishing. Theres nothing wrong with that - people on Dims and across the internet surprise me continually - it's just that your methods seem very much at odds with your aims.

If you do suffer from Autism or possibly Aspergers though a lot of your posts become instantly understandable. Please understand that I am making no judgement when I make this blunt enquiry - I have a friend with mild Aspergers so I do understand some of the challenges that sufferers can face. I am just desperately trying to understand how you cant see that your methods in trying to improve womens esteem are self defeating at best, and down right offensive at worst.

If you'd rather not answer this post I would completely understand and I apologise if I have offended you. 

Love Tracey


----------



## butch (Feb 28, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> How do fat women become convinced that they are ugly and socially unacceptable? I assumed that it is by being told over and over and over that they are ugly and socially unacceptable.
> 
> How do fat women become more self accepting? I would think and believe that it is by being told in many places and by many people that they are a lovely and socially acceptable. I seem to remember reading the fat women who say that reading dimensions columns and boards has helped to improve their self-image. I remember a woman at a dance commenting that three days at a NAAFA convention did more for her self-image than three years of psychotherapy.
> 
> ...



I certainly agree with you-fat can be beautiful, but you did not address my crtique of your style, Russell, which is of course your right.

Unfortunately, your fixation on gender and attractiveness in some of your size acceptance work suggests that you are actually not interested in the well being of all fat people, just the ones you personally find attractive. To me, that is not something that suggest you truly are invested in size acceptance for all.

Which is a shame, because plenty of fat people of all genders, sexualities, and ages deserve to benefit from committed activism on their behalf. And that doesn't happen with your activism when you confuse your attraction for fat women with your fat activism. 




also, I had already realised that these types of posts don't 'work' on Russell, which again, is fine and I have no reason to expect anyone should accept my critique of their posts, but when I do engage in a response to Russell's posts, they are for the argument itself, and the effect such an argument can have in our 'culture of fat' here at Dims.


----------



## Ernest Nagel (Feb 28, 2008)

I won't presume to speak for him but I suspect Russell and I share a similar lack of _salesmanship_, for lack of a better term, for the same pathological reason. If I'm right there is really only so much he can do about it. The neurological condition known as Aspergers syndrome is a high functioning form of autism. Among other things it means we are somewhere between empathy challenged and empathy void. I cannot read people or anticipate emotional responses without a deliberate and practiced effort. Where Neuro Typicals (NT) possess varying degrees of empathy and emotional intelligence Aspys have little or none. 

I am fortunate to have been aware of this incapacity most of my life and well before I ever heard the term Aspergers. I have taught myself to anticipate by process of logical elimination what might be the emotional response to my words or actions. I can emulate empathy. It requires some effort and I'm often wrong but it allows me to pass for normal in all but my most intimate relationships. 

I'm not sharing this to get any slack or sympathy. From time to time I do feel disconnected and subhuman. OTOH it has undoubtedly contributed to my success and effectiveness in several fields. I can be present to and observe some aspects of human interaction without the distraction of emotional interpretations. Many famous mathematicians have exhibited symptoms of Aspergers or borderline Aspergers. It is not without some backsliding that I have come to accept it as a mixed blessing.

What I would like people to know is that Aspys are not without emotion. It's more difficult for us to access them and we may not have quite a full palette of emotional colors but they are there. I do care when I hurt or offend people unintentionally. It saddens and troubles me deeply and sometimes I want to withdraw just for the good of those around me. When I feel this way I remind myself of something my politically incorrect grandfather was fond of saying, every cripple finds his own way of walking.

I get along in the world as best I can. I've learned that there are certain types of people who are very difficult for me to relate to. I've also learned that people by and large are very generous. They forgive me many things even without my asking or explaining why Im so obtuse. They choose to accept my good intentions and excuse my "style", or raging lack thereof. And then some don't. It is what it is and we each play the hand were dealt as best we can, if thats not too hopelessly platitudinous? 

I suppose it's almost redundant to say I don't know how Russell will feel about this post? I don't know how anyone will feel about anything, if you somehow missed that point. Ill just close with one of my all time fave F. Scott Fitzgerald quotes. This isn't in reference to Russell or myself or directed to anyone in particular. Just some wise words I try to live by.

Whenever you feel like criticizing any onejust remember that all the people in this world havent had the advantages that youve had.

I'm surprised how hard this was for me to write; not so much because of what I've said but I think who I'm saying it to? Thanks to my many friends here for your support and kindness. :bow:


----------



## butch (Feb 28, 2008)

Ernest,

Thanks for sharing. I certainly am not taking Russell to task for any possible brain configurations that might make it difficult for us to communicate with each other, but since he and I are both posting on a public message board, I do feel that I have a right to point out the problematics of his 'style' because other people are reading, and I don't want them to think there's absolutely nothing wrong with conflating one's desire with fat women with their advocacy for a defintion of 'size acceptance' that seems to boil down to: fat women will only feel good about themselves once men tell them how pretty they are.

So, long ago I recongized that Russell hears what he wants to hear (and he isn't the only person who behaves this way at Dims, and, honestly, I don't think everyone with this affliction has Aspergers, since it even strikes me at times,  ), and that any impact I hope to have on him is nil. I must say, though, that I don't hear anyone giving him a hard time for possibly having certain brain characteristics that makes his communication style less common than others, but in a public forum we all have a right to debate ideas, assumptions, and actions, no matter how they come accross, as long as we do so without personal attacks (well, yes, I know, this happens sometimes, too, but I'm being idealistic).

I just want to be clear that I don't believe I was being harsh on Russell because he might have Autism or Aspergers, I was critiquing his ideas, and he of course was welcome to critique mine, which is the fun and the horror of an internet message board. I've already made allowances for Russell's style of communication, but does that mean I should keep completely silent whenever he posts here, just because he may or may not have a condition that makes it difficult for him to communicate in the typical ways that people do, by integrating information others give you, processing it, and forming a response that addresses, in whole or part, the points the other person made to you? 

I don't believe that I should have to give up the ability to engage in debate with anyone else who posts here at Dims, but I am willing to make allowances for situations where my style of communication is at odds with whoever I may be speaking with. I do this with Russell, and with others in other situations and for other reasons. Are you asking any of us to do more, Ernest? I am confused, I must admit.


----------



## Jes (Feb 28, 2008)

butch said:


> I don't think everyone with this affliction has Aspergers.



Yes. Just short of the clinical definition, I call THAT special thing:

Pain in my Aspergers. 

Sadly, there's no treatment for it.


----------



## Ernest Nagel (Feb 28, 2008)

butch said:


> Ernest,
> 
> <snip> I just want to be clear that I don't believe I was being harsh on Russell because he might have Autism or Aspergers, I was critiquing his ideas, and he of course was welcome to critique mine, which is the fun and the horror of an internet message board. I've already made allowances for Russell's style of communication, but does that mean I should keep completely silent whenever he posts here, just because he may or may not have a condition that makes it difficult for him to communicate in the typical ways that people do, by integrating information others give you, processing it, and forming a response that addresses, in whole or part, the points the other person made to you?
> 
> I don't believe that I should have to give up the ability to engage in debate with anyone else who posts here at Dims, but I am willing to make allowances for situations where my style of communication is at odds with whoever I maybe speaking with. I do this with Russell, and with others in other situations and for other reasons. Are you asking any of us to do more, Ernest? I am confused, I must admit.





Jes said:


> Yes. Just short of the clinical definition, I call THAT special thing:
> 
> Pain in my Aspergers.
> 
> Sadly, there's no treatment for it.



Julia I apologize that you felt I was somehow being critical of you or anyone else for the way you interact with Russell. In re-reading my post I can see how you might have gotten that but it was sincerely not my intention. 

What I wanted to do that I clearly did not was offer some insight into what might have someone seem so aloof or intransigent. Again, I do not want to presume to speak for Russell. I don't follow his posts closely and I have no acquaintance with him. I do sense your frustration in dealing with him or people like him. I thought maybe I could abate that somewhat by distinguishing some of the differences between a clinical and a voluntary asshole. 

Think of it as akin to colorblindness. There is a huge difference between someone who hates the color blue and someone who simply can't see it. If I despise blue I can refuse to look at it or listen to anything you have to say about how great it is. Still, I at least know what we're talking about. If I literally cannot see the color blue you are flogging the proverbial dead horse. 

I have what is considered borderline Asperger's, which kind of means I can be both a voluntary and an involuntary asshole, sometimes simultaneously. Someone with profound Asperger's, and I don't mean to imply that this is Russell, can literally not imagine anyone thinking differently than they do. Any different opinion than theirs is quite literally and automatically wrong. One of the simplest ways I can think of to differentiate this type of thinking is that a full-on Aspy never defends their position, they only reiterate it, often verbatim. 

I love this board for the rich variety of opinions expressed here and never more than when they are expressed with the eloquence and wit of yours and Jes'. The last thing I want to do is dissuade anyone from feeling the space to share anything here. I guess what I want people to understand is that while everyone's minds work a little bit differently NT's differences are more like the differences between various types of cars. Aspy's are like a locomotive on a straight flat stretch of track. 

Because Aspy's can be extremely intelligent it is often confusing and frustrating for other intelligent people who attempt to engage them in conversation. Julia, you are very persuasive but the most brilliant logic and reasoning in the world cannot win an argument or even make any headway with what amounts to the smartest anvil in the world. In some ways we are ideally suited to being relentlessly hammered. Maybe it helps to understand that Aspy intelligence simply cannot meet this standard:

"The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function." ~ F. Scott Fitzgerald 

Of course neither can many NTs but with Aspys there's no real choice in the matter. I'd probably be an asshole even if I was an NT. I don't use it as an excuse for unacceptable behavior; mine or anyone else's. I've worked long and hard on myself and with the support of many people I consider myself a recovering asshole. For me, coming to Dims is kind of like an alcoholic going to a bar; it's a way of testing myself. The temptations to assholery are wide and deep here <NPI>. I often lapse but I rarely fail to learn from my mistakes. That's about as good as it's going to get for me. I hope this clears things up a bit?


----------



## butch (Feb 28, 2008)

Ernest, thanks for the clarification. I am aware of the unique qualities of Apergers and other forms of Autism, but I appreciate your personal narrative about the realities of Asperger. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that every post here is meant for two groups-the OP one is responding to, and everyone else who is (or could be) involved in the discussion or reading along. Whenever I come across someone who seems to exhibit the characteristics you're describing, any response I give is geared more towards the larger audience than the OP, and so often times my only choice is to use the OP as a jumping off point for the rest of the audience. So, what may appear to be the clash of two competing communication styles is actually a dialogue keeping the multiple other participants 'in play' to various degrees of effectiveness.


----------



## Jes (Feb 28, 2008)

Right, B. And I think that's what I was trying to get at, too, with my questions, and speculations to and about Russell. Everyone can feel about his posts as they want, certainly. But if I'm right in how I'm seeing htings (and I don't know that I am), then lots of trying to convince Russell to be different than he is will be fruitless and just turn nutty. But I really think you've expressed yourself well, here, in terms of the attractiveness trap, which I don't think I'd really connected in my mind, when I've read posts that ...sit in my craw. So, thanks for that.


----------



## Ernest Nagel (Feb 29, 2008)

butch said:


> Ernest, thanks for the clarification. I am aware of the unique qualities of Apergers and other forms of Autism, but I appreciate your personal narrative about the realities of Asperger. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that every post here is meant for two groups-the OP one is responding to, and everyone else who is (or could be) involved in the discussion or reading along. Whenever I come across someone who seems to exhibit the characteristics you're describing, any response I give is geared more towards the larger audience than the OP, and so often times my only choice is to use the OP as a jumping off point for the rest of the audience. So, what may appear to be the clash of two competing communication styles is actually a dialogue keeping the multiple other participants 'in play' to various degrees of effectiveness.





Jes said:


> Right, B. And I think that's what I was trying to get at, too, with my questions, and speculations to and about Russell. Everyone can feel about his posts as they want, certainly. But if I'm right in how I'm seeing things (and I don't know that I am), then lots of trying to convince Russell to be different than he is will be fruitless and just turn nutty. But I really think you've expressed yourself well, here, in terms of the attractiveness trap, which I don't think I'd really connected in my mind, when I've read posts that ...sit in my craw. So, thanks for that.



Thanks to each of you, generous and lovely ladies. I often find myself slip-sliding into the middle of things I don't really understand. It's more helpful than I'm sure you realize to receive the kind of input I am gratefully blessed with here. 

I wish I could adequately describe the analogies/disparities I see between the nascent fat acceptance movement and the virtually nonexistent asshole acceptance movement? They say that fat bashing is the last socially acceptable prejudice. I'm pretty confident that asshole bashing will be here to stay long after fat is universally accepted and praised. 

Yes, fat is difficult to disguise. I doubt however that you realize what a blessing that is? I can blend simply by keeping my mouth shut. Because I am borderline I can even emulate normalcy if I am merely willing to acknowledge no one would accept me for my true self. The possible consolation prize for being fat is to be known and loved for your great personality, as in "she's fat, but she's so sweet!". Having Aspergers affords little redemption. "He's just an asshole, steer clear." Welcome to my world.

STG, I'm not bitter. I'd just like people to understand that every person who seems oblivious or inconsiderate isn't necessarily an irredeemable jerk _by choice _any more than every person who's overweight is a lazy overeater. As a "genetic jerk" I have no way of separating myself from someone who is an asswipe simply by virtue of their disposition. 

I have many redeeming qualities, but in order for people to see them I have to contort and disguise myself in ways that often leave me feeling fractured and disconsolate. Seeming to be an asshole is not something that I can lose via exercise, diet or surgery. Hurting or offending people inadvertently is something I would trade for almost anything in a heartbeat. It's just not on the table so I get by as best I can. I think that parallel to obesity warrants some deference and respect for Aspys here? Regardless, I find great pleasure and solace in BBWs, so I'm here to stay.


----------



## Chimpi (Feb 29, 2008)

I am not a behavioral expert or analyst, nor can I relate to any of what has been stated in this thread (I don't have Autism or Asperger's, nor do I use pick up lines), but I would like to throw a question out there that I would like to know an answer to (if there is an actual answer).

Reference goes back to something Russell Williams stated:


Russell Williams said:


> How do fat women become convinced that they are ugly and socially unacceptable? I assumed that it is by being told over and over and over that they are ugly and socially unacceptable.
> 
> How do fat women become more self accepting? I would think and believe that it is by being told in many places and by many people that they are a lovely and socially acceptable.



And then Ernest expressed his reply that related (I think) to what Russell Williams stated.



Ernest Nagel said:


> Someone with profound Asperger's, and I don't mean to imply that this is Russell, can literally not imagine anyone thinking differently than they do. Any different opinion than theirs is quite literally and automatically wrong.



If Russell understands the concept that some one being told something over and over and over again can certainly impact their view and thought process on that specific subject, I would also believe that he can adapt those views and new thought processes in the same manner. Where I make no judgment about Russell one way or the other, if his "style" is unconventional and possibly offensive to people, and if he understands the concept of repetitive ideas and knows that people can possibly reflect those ideas in the future, then is it also possible that he can perform the same adaptations?

Again, I have no expertise in any of this. I'm merely throwing that out there in hopes of an answer (such as Jes is trying to find out Russell's answer to her question).

And as an aside, I really wanted to hand you reputation for *this* post of yours, Ernest. But I am not allowed to do so until I spread the love. Thank you for sharing your experiences and viewpoints.


----------



## ripley (Feb 29, 2008)

I'm pretty much appalled at how this thread went. If Russell had wanted your views and/or opinions on autism he would have made an autism thread. To bring up stuff from the past to try to explain his "style" or anything else is rude bordering on perversely mean. Who gives a fuck what you think of his style or what you think of why his posts sometimes irk people? Let me give you a hint...every single person here has made posts that irk people, including all of you. That's why we have the ignore function, so we don't have to engage with those people.


To hector him into answering your questions about his personal matters is something that I think the mods should not have allowed.


----------



## butch (Feb 29, 2008)

ripley, I don't know if you're including me in your response, but if so, my participation in this thread started out only as a response to Keb, and that was how I had planned on leaving it until Russell responded directly to my post. Anything since then was in response to larger questions about how and why we interact with others here who have a variety of communication styles, and not meant as an attack on any one individual as a person.

I presume we all adjust out interaction with others here for a variety of reasons, and I doubly presume that happens to me as well as to everyone else here. I'm not holding myself up as a paragon of communication skills, so I know I've posted things where people haven't been able to figure me out, either. 

I never once took anyone to task for their participation on these boards, but I did take task with the ideas they put on this board, which is what I thought message boards were all about. I also engaged in dialogue more broadly about how one should or would be expected to interact here with someone who has Aspergers with someone who self-identified as having Aspergers, only after that person contributed to this thread. 

Again, not meant to hector someone into telling me if they have a certain condition or not, and not meant to make anyone feel bad if they have a certain condition or not. I have my own quirks when I post here that can be seen as just as problematic as the things Ernest talks about, and I don't expect people to have to adjust how they interact on the board to deal with it, and if nothing else, that was my point-it doesn't matter if someone has a 'reason' for why they post the way they do, once they post an opinion here all of us have a right to respond to that opinion in any way we see fit, as long as we are not attacking an individual's right to post it, and I never said that Russell or anyone else shouldn't post here.

Which is why I never use the ignore function, because I believe this place is better when all of us post, even the ones I don't like or have a hard time understanding. I apologize if it appeared I was trying to attack anyone or stiffle their right to participate. That was not my intent in any way. If the mods want to remove my posts, that is A-Ok with me.


----------



## TraciJo67 (Feb 29, 2008)

I'm in awe. Truly.

A roomful of psychologists, armed to the teeth with PhD's and an intimate knowledge of the human psyche, couldn't have done a better job of oh, so politely ripping into Russell & Ernest. I can't even say that they'd have used purtier language. 

Someone less educated (or perhaps just a bit more honest about their motives) would have probably just called 'em asshats and been done with it. 

Armchair diagnosing someone with an autism spectrum disorder (while carefully excusing oneself by asserting that it's "just speculation") ... well, that's just ... BRILLIANT.


----------



## Tina (Feb 29, 2008)

ripley said:


> I'm pretty much appalled at how this thread went. If Russell had wanted your views and/or opinions on autism he would have made an autism thread. To bring up stuff from the past to try to explain his "style" or anything else is rude bordering on perversely mean. Who gives a fuck what you think of his style or what you think of why his posts sometimes irk people? Let me give you a hint...every single person here has made posts that irk people, including all of you. That's why we have the ignore function, so we don't have to engage with those people.
> 
> 
> To hector him into answering your questions about his personal matters is something that I think the mods should not have allowed.



You know, just because something is here, that doesn't mean it's because the mods have "allowed" it. It usually means (though not always, but _usually_) that no one has reported it (thankfully, someone did, this morning). We cannot read every post on the board, you know. That is why, if someone is so appalled at a post, the Report Post button alerts us to it.

Thread closed.


----------

