# Jezebel article: Good Guys Are Hard to Find



## Jes (Apr 11, 2011)

http://jezebel.com/#!5789174/how-the-good-guys-are-hard-to-find-narrative-hurts-women

I just ran across the article above (well, actually, it was served to me from Jezebel.com via Facebook) and I read it through the lens of 'FA' and not just 'good guys.'

If you read it, I'd be interested to know what you think of it. I think SuperO has posted something about FAs getting a free pass merely by existing (and I think that can be true for some of them) which echoes what this author is saying.


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## 1love_emily (Apr 11, 2011)

This is incredibly interesting... and incredibly true.

I don't really know what to say because it's true. Girls don't feel like they are worth as much because of all that was mentioned.

I'm lucky enough that I don't feel that way... most of the time.


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## Tania (Apr 11, 2011)

Meh, I think "good guys are hard to find" doesn't have to swing that way. When I use the phrase, it's an emblem of self-esteem...a refusal to settle...a challenge to men to step up to the fucking plate or fuck the hell off. 

I think the problem here is the age group being discussed. Young teenagers as general class are a clueless and inexperienced bunch. They can be swayed by the slightest breath of peer pressure and turn on an emotional dime. They can expect too much out of situations, people, life, and at the same time _actually think to ask_ or negotiate for much, much less than they should. Sometimes the relationship drama isn't really about the relationship, it's about the drama. Teenagers, especially girls, tend to like the drama. I mean, you can't even drive by a high school anymore without catching a heady whiff of llama excrement as you pass. 

Teenagers also use words and phrases to describe grownup realities that don't yet exist for them, but sound really cool and adult. I mean, how can you expect kids to get ree-_LAYYYYYY_-shun-ships right when most adults can't? A "good guy" to someone who's 13 might mean "cute and popular," but to someone who's 25, it'll likely (hopefully) mean a helluva lot more. Also, a lot of essentially decent young guys are basically still in womb-mode while in high school, and will happily take the nice things you offer them without any quid pro quo because they're used to their mommies' unconditional love. Most of them kinda get over it eventually, often when some cute girl or three berates them for being a douche. The real tests come as they progress through the stages of life; if someone's still living in his parents' basement at 40, unemployed, addicted to video games, and insisting that he should date I mean _longterm fuck_ a model, then you KNOW it's a lost cause. 

The same kind of thinking applies to the girls. I LOLed over the "oh it's so sad" comments from the "friends" mentioned in the articles. Passive-aggression and "relationship" drama, which I've already mentioned, is how the female of the spoiled-brat species protects her fragile ego and garners the OMGATTENSHUN. Bitches. If you want people - guys or girls - to, you know, like you personally let alone want to spend actual time with you, don't be a fucking backstabbing fishwife, no matter how glamorously 35-year-old-double-divorcee it sounds. 

At the end of the day, it's really up to individuals and their absentee parents to buck the hell up and end the cycle. Frankly, I don't think older childhood is ever going to be a romantic bed of roses, but parents do have the power to head off the eating disorders and bad blowjob habits at the pass. Girls put up with ridiculous behavior from girlfriends and boys because they either like drama or they're so selfishly, desperately in need of the OMGATTENSHUN that they let douches be douches AND they propagate their own brand of hypocritical bullshit in the process. Fuck that noise.

This is why I probably won't have kids. I'd likely murder them to death before they hit 16.


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## CastingPearls (Apr 11, 2011)

Tania, while I agree with much of what you're saying, I hear the same complaints from women in their 30s and 40s and they can be encouraged about their value until you're blue in the face and they can even repeat the mantra 'I'm worth it' themselves and STILL accept and excuse shitty disrespectful behavior because at heart they believe if they were less flawed they'd be more loved, cherished, etc. 

If you (general you) accept poor behavior from anyone why should they give you what you deserve if you don't believe what you deserve yourself? 

For a few years I lost my way. I wasn't even exempt from this but I have woken up since and am regaining my own personal power. I am worth all the good things life has to offer because I have so much to offer. If a man doesn't respect and cherish that, he's history because I *DO* believe there are a LOT of good men out there and he can and will be replaced with one who IS capable of a mature healthy relationship.

EDT: I also say less analysis of bad boy/sad girl behavior and for women to cut the line and keep moving forward rather than sitting around thumbsucking over margaritas with their girlfriends.


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## Tania (Apr 11, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> Tania, while I agree with much of what you're saying, I hear the same complaints from women in their 30s and 40s and they can be encouraged about their value until you're blue in the face and they can even repeat the mantra 'I'm worth it' themselves and STILL accept and excuse shitty disrespectful behavior because at heart they believe if they were less flawed they'd be more loved, cherished, etc.



I think that if more people grew up with the mindset that it's bad to use or manipulate people and good to cut selfish people loose with no questions, you wouldn't see boys/men taking so much advantage nor as many girls/women gaming the sympathy/drama angle. Social behavior - from using girls because they're there to playing the passive-aggressive drama llama attention card - is learned. That's why it's essential to understand that on one hand, kids need guidance and should be given the chance to grow out of it (given the tough love, of course), and on the other, people - no matter how young or old the may be - need to be hammered with the the social responsibility lesson that no matter how "bad" other people may be or how imperfect or unworthy they may consider themselves, they still have to take action to protect themselves emotionally! It's certainly okay to make mistakes and get upset with people who've been douchey to you, but you can't expect people to take you seriously if you keep making the same hurtful mistakes over and over and over and over again. Because that's crazy behavior. Time for therapy. Histrionics no good. 



> If you (general you) accept poor behavior from anyone why should they give you what you deserve if you don't believe what you deserve yourself?



Right - but you can believe that "good men" (for you) are hard to find and not fall into the habit of enabling bullshit. Where I take issue with the writer's attack on the mantra is the assumption that immature people's conflation of "good" with "cute/physically attractive/convenient" should invalidate the idea as a whole. At root, it is the expression of the reality that people should choose wisely and expect respectful behavior from the opposite sex, not expect to just fall into a relationship right away (perfect or otherwise). 



> For a few years I lost my way. I wasn't even exempt from this but I have woken up since and am regaining my own personal power. I am worth all the good things life has to offer because I have so much to offer. If a man doesn't respect and cherish that, he's history because I *DO* believe there are a LOT of good men out there and he can and will be replaced with one who IS capable of a mature healthy relationship.



Right on. It happens, and nobody's exempt. It's not a sin to take risks and be hurt because you were hoping for the best. It's not a sin to get flippin' mad over the fact that it happened. Honestly, sometimes the best thing a person can do to reestablish her self-confidence is to piss herself off into a full-scale self-worth epiphany. 

I agree that there are "good" guys out there, but the fact of the matter is that "good" does not always mean good for you - compatible, interesting, or interested. It's hard out there for a pimpette no matter how positive or great she happens to be. That said, it's the same story for the nice guys. But no matter what the reasons for difficulty in finding a good match, the bottom line is that it's vitally important to treat yourself right and call bullshit when you see it. 



> I also say less analysis of bad boy/sad girl behavior and for women to cut the line and keep moving forward rather than sitting around thumbsucking over margaritas with their girlfriends.



Pretty much. And this applies to the parents of wayward teens as well as those wayward teens themselves. Catch 'em early and teach them not to look to boys and the drama llama for attention and excitement, because that's selfish and douchey in and of itself.


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## itsfine (Apr 14, 2011)

I think this is fairly close to reality.

I have so many friends who fit the standards of being beautiful (and have been told that they are beautiful and smart their whole lives), have more education, and a better job than myself, but they sell themselves short. 

I think I was told I was beautiful twice in my childhood/teens. I never had a date to any of the dances, ect. So I always relied on myself to be independent and strong. When I entered college, I really started to appreciate those qualities about myself. I didn't need a boy to make me feel important. I could make myself that way. 

Now, I have been dating a man for the past 4 and a half years who is amazing. In those years I have never felt anything but loved. If my feet hurt, he rubs them. If I am sick he will leave the house at 2 am to get me medicine. If a friend is coming to visit me from out of town, he actively tries to make their stay here enjoyable and fun (and will even give us some alone girl time). If there is a problem, I am confident in our relationship to bring it up. He is AMAZING. 

Many of my friends have a high standard for appearance of guys (specific types), and I feel that also hinders their success in relationships. My "type" was of Italian appearance - my boyfriend is not that but is still very attractive to me.

Confidence, knowing what you want and being able to talk about it, and an open-mind were key qualities that helped me in my relationship.


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## Tau (Apr 18, 2011)

I see all this linked to the fact that or most our lives we are taught that we don't have a right to pleasure, to take care of ourselves. Like the comment from the girl bout how she's the hook up, the blow job girl. Why is she handing out blow jobs she sounds so unhappy about??? How does it make sense in her mind to do this? Is male attention that important that these women would rather have some then none at all??? I can't help contrasting articles like this to that awful piece of rubbish that was in hyde park recently - the one where men are essentially threatening women with video games and sex toys because we're all just so unbearably demanding and gold diggerish. Bullshit. More women need to be willing to demand respect, to demand joy and pleasure and more women need to be willing to tell men who will not give this to them to fuck off. We have options ladies - its past time that sank in.


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## ashmamma84 (Apr 18, 2011)

Tau said:


> I see all this linked to the fact that or most our lives we are taught that we don't have a right to pleasure, to take care of ourselves. Like the comment from the girl bout how she's the hook up, the blow job girl. Why is she handing out blow jobs she sounds so unhappy about??? How does it make sense in her mind to do this? Is male attention that important that these women would rather have some then none at all??? I can't help contrasting articles like this to that awful piece of rubbish that was in hyde park recently - the one where men are essentially threatening women with video games and sex toys because we're all just so unbearably demanding and gold diggerish. Bullshit. More women need to be willing to demand respect, to demand joy and pleasure and more women need to be willing to tell men who will not give this to them to fuck off. We have options ladies - its past time that sank in.



I agree with this. 

But for women, especially women who have never been in a relationship or dated, sometimes they are more likely to accept bs than women who've been around the block a time or two. It can also happen in marriages too. 

That was the basis of my uncle and aunt-in-law's dysfunctional union. He would cheat, lie, etc. She put up with the disrespectful behavior because as long as she didn't have to pay bills or lift a finger he came and went as he pleased. I have to say, they both were good at playing that sick game though. She was able to call and whine to her friends about how bad her husband treated her and then when he felt bad enough he would throw her a bone or two and buy her something nice. It was a vicious and horrible trap though because once she found herself sick of the disrespect (his mistresses would call their house in the early morning asking for him, he literally wouldn't say two words to his wife at one point, got a new cell phone and wouldn't give her the number, etc) she still found that she had nowhere to go. She didn't have an education to fall back on, no money saved up and no family she could live with until she got on her feet. I guess she got so tired of being emotionally/spiritually beaten down that no amount of diamonds and gold would make up for the trauma. So she finally served him divorce papers after he'd cheated on her for over 30 years. 

Maybe it takes some women much MUCH longer than others but I think all beings have a breaking point in which they cannot help but do something different or else a dire consequence ensue. Kinda like a self preservation mode. Maybe something clicked for her. Maybe she figured she was so low the only way to go was up from there. Who knows? Even though I've never cared for her as a person I am glad they parted ways. I think she's much better off without him. 

I don't think their story is remarkable or even special. I think it happens all too often that women trade self respect/confidence/power, etc for financial stability. Unfortunately the clothes, shoes, bags can't keep you warm at night. I don't think I'd ever want to be in a position to be someone's beautiful fool.


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## Pitch (May 7, 2011)

Definitely like this article. It rings very true for me, but rather than "settling" I might date someone once every 4 years (only to get what I call "better dealed") for a few weeks. Otherwise I feel like dating is a horrible meat market and someone fat like me is the 'green meat'. Why would anybody want to buy that? And if they dont what do I want to do with them?

However, I dont think it's the parent's fault girls [as explained in the article] feel like they never measure up. We're told it everyday by the television, magazines, music and yes-- men. And it's reinforced by male homosociality which demands that men see women as an amalgamation of body parts measured on a scale of 1-10. Shamelessly.

It is -literally- pounded into our heads that the Iron Maiden is very, very real. And if you dont fit inside of it, you may as well fade into obscurity.

Personally, I still dont feel like I am pretty, deserve love or physical satisfaction/affection or to be doted on because I am not the ideal at 287 pounds. A life of being taught this is hard to undo.

..I think I am going to slap this article on my Facebook.


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