# Don't know if it's kosher for me to ask, but what the hell...



## Mini (May 3, 2006)

OK, I know I'm not a BHM, but I am a freakin' huge guy all the same, and fashionable clothes aren't exactly easy for me to come by. Most stores only get 2 or 3 L/Ts in of any particular style, and in my experience they're gone on the same day they arrive. 

My question is, where do the tall dudes here shop? Is there a good site online? Good store I should keep my eyes open for?

Any help would be appreciated. My summer attire is pretty sad right now.

Also, is hot pink a "gay" color? I'm clueless when it comes to fashion.


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## Tad (May 3, 2006)

George Richards
Highway 406 & Glendale Ave.
St. Catharines, ON L2T 2K9

It is a large Canadian "big and tall" chain. There may be other big and tall stores in your vicinity too--look in your yellow pages under whatever they call men's clothes (apparel, men perhaps?)

-Ed


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## Mini (May 3, 2006)

I was just there this afternoon. The dearth of L/Ts prompted the post. 

Thanks, though.


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## sunandshadow (May 3, 2006)

Hmm, I remember when I worked as a cashier at the Value City in Erie, PA, we had several L/T rounders in the men's section, and we used to regularly get Canadian tourbusses come in on shopping tours.


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## AnnMarie (May 3, 2006)

I don't have a resource to help you right now, but I "personally" don't think hot pink/dark pink is a gay color... but it would depend on what you're wearing/where you're wearing, etc... 

Hope that helps a little.  I need a boy to dress up, I love making them look hot.


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## Mini (May 3, 2006)

AnnMarie said:


> I don't have a resource to help you right now, but I "personally" don't think hot pink/dark pink is a gay color... but it would depend on what you're wearing/where you're wearing, etc...
> 
> Hope that helps a little.  I need a boy to dress up, I love making them look hot.



Road trip! 

I was thinking pink top with white pants/shorts. My dad thinks I should adjust my gaydar. I can't help it if my tastes lean towards the flamboyant.


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## AnnMarie (May 3, 2006)

Mini said:


> Road trip!
> 
> I was thinking pink top with white pants/shorts. My dad thinks I should adjust my gaydar. I can't help it if my tastes lean towards the flamboyant.



I don't think it sounds too bad... but I'd dig it with a pair of dark wash denim jeans too.... maybe for night, ya know?


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## jamie (May 3, 2006)

LL Bean online usually has lots of options in the L/T area. I buy alot of the bf's shirts from there.

Pink is a great color.


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## Mini (May 3, 2006)

Jamie, thank you. They've got just what I'm looking for.


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## Sandie S-R (May 3, 2006)

Mini said:


> OK, I know I'm not a BHM, but I am a freakin' huge guy all the same, and fashionable clothes aren't exactly easy for me to come by. Most stores only get 2 or 3 L/Ts in of any particular style, and in my experience they're gone on the same day they arrive.
> 
> My question is, where do the tall dudes here shop? Is there a good site online? Good store I should keep my eyes open for?
> 
> ...



Hi Mini...

My husband Guy is 6'8" and 270, he wears a 2XLTall, or a 3XLTall. We buy shirts for him at Land's End, Eddie Bauer, Repp Big & Tall, Hoffman's Big and Tall, and Big Dogs. 

Guy wears purples and burgundys and blue and they look great on him, although some men won't wear those colors. 

Anyway, hope that helps. Happy shopping!


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## Jes (May 3, 2006)

AnnMarie said:


> I don't think it sounds too bad... but I'd dig it with a pair of dark wash denim jeans too.... maybe for night, ya know?


How about mango/tangerine? perhaps less stereotypically 'gay' but still wild and fun. And definitely a summer color. I can see it on you. Also, off you.


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## MissToodles (May 3, 2006)

Tall people shop in big & tall shops? I thought that was just a myth.


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## AnnMarie (May 3, 2006)

Jes said:


> How about mango/tangerine? perhaps less stereotypically 'gay' but still wild and fun. And definitely a summer color. I can see it on you. Also, off you.



Agree, and stripes! woo hooo... I want a Mini doll. Although, after poking around online for a bit, I can't figure out what I'd dress him in... I see his problem. All the "talls" I find are for up to about 6'5"! HA! I laugh at their idea of tall

Poor Mini, it's quite a challenge!


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## Mini (May 3, 2006)

MissToodles said:


> Tall people shop in big & tall shops? I thought that was just a myth.



I need a Big And/Or Tall store. Most shirts are made for 8 foot linebackers.

Seriously, I tried one on today. I thought I had found an L/T. It was, except I missed the 5X printed right below it.

It was like putting a tent on a toothpick. Holy SHIT.


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## AnnMarie (May 3, 2006)

I like this : 
stripes -in last color swatch/orange
Well, Ruby is ok as well, and the default. Stripes are good.

I guess I'm confused though... can you do a regular tall for a shirt? I'd think if it's made for a 6'3" guy then the arms would be wayyy too short?

But at least Sandie chimed in on what Guy is able to get, that's got to be helpful since he's in the same neighborhood.


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## Mini (May 3, 2006)

I've got long limbs and a long, albeit thin, torso. I've got a 30, 31-inch waist and broad-ish shoulders, so *just* large will be expose my midriff, and *just* tall will be too tight in the back.

I'm lookin' at this one:

http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/st...d=TA&from=&rtnComp=&attrValue_2=Gunmetal Gray

And this one:

http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/st...ategory=3500&cat4=6413&shop_method=pp&feat=ln


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## Ash (May 3, 2006)

I agree with AM on the stripes thing. So hot, especially in bold colors. 

My boyfriend won't go shopping with me because I'm always trying to dress him up. I can't help it!


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## Sandie S-R (May 3, 2006)

Mini said:


> I've got long limbs and a long, albeit thin, torso. I've got a 30, 31-inch waist and broad-ish shoulders, so *just* large will be expose my midriff, and *just* tall will be too tight in the back.
> 
> I'm lookin' at this one:
> 
> ...




Mini...

Those look great. Let us know how they work out if you try one. Try checking out Land's End and Eddie Bauer as well.

www.landsend.com

www.eddiebauer.com

We have relly good luck with their tall shirts for Guy.


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## Jes (May 3, 2006)

If you're the credit card type, get an LLBean card before you buy. No annual fee, and free shipping on all purchases, along with free monogramming on monogrammable things. Also, you earn points for catalog items.


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## Fuzzy (May 4, 2006)

I have the best luck finding shirts with long sleeves long enough for my gorilla arms at "hunting" and "outdoors" type stores like Cabelas or at Farm and Implement shops. Good prices on boots too.


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## ScreamingChicken (May 4, 2006)

Mini said:


> OK, I know I'm not a BHM, but I am a freakin' huge guy all the same, and fashionable clothes aren't exactly easy for me to come by. Most stores only get 2 or 3 L/Ts in of any particular style, and in my experience they're gone on the same day they arrive.
> 
> My question is, where do the tall dudes here shop? Is there a good site online? Good store I should keep my eyes open for?
> 
> ...


I bought a pastel pink polo shirt just for Easter. Now I'm 6'2" and 325lbs (broad shoulders, long arms) and I got complimented many times over by the females in my family on how it looked on me.


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## BeaBea (May 4, 2006)

I love pink on men! I dont think a colour would ever make me wonder about someones sexuality, that would be more down to maybe picking up clues from their words, attitude and mannerisms. (Forgive the gross generalisations!)

Seeing a cute guy and -wondering- if he was gay would just make me flirt a little harder till I found out  Would that be a bad thing?? 

Tracey xx

www.beabea.co.uk


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## 4honor (May 4, 2006)

Mini~

Since you are gonna have to plunk down some dough to get clothing anyway, hire yourself a professional seamstress or tailor and get it done how you like. The hardest part is getting the original patterns set - then it is all a matter of style changes.

Personally, I make great shorts, short sleeve shirts and the occasional knit polo or T-shirt. I make tank tops and swim trunks for men, and have made an Outback Drover's coat, fashion ties, a tux shirt, and many many western shirts as well. (Just love those pearl buttons and cowboy hats.) 

My husband is a size L but has "gorilla arms" and broad shoulders, huge feet and hands... as if everything grew nicely but his height -- no Irish here -- just good Austrian stock. But I digress.

I know I am not the only seamstress out in the world that could assist you in gaining a fabulous wardrobe. ... You could even find a big beautiful single seamstress near your age who would love to climb a beanstalk like you. (It could happen.)


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## AnnMarie (May 4, 2006)

4honor said:


> You could even find a big beautiful single seamstress near your age who would love to climb a beanstalk like you. (It could happen.)




So you're sayin' I should learn to sew?

 


hahahaha


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## jamie (May 4, 2006)

Mini- look at this one too wrinkle free chino shirt.

It looks really plain, but the texture and material are so soft and the shirt always looks so crisp and good. J has one in butter, and he looks *very* cute in it. I can vouch for the quality. .


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## Jes (May 5, 2006)

I will never understand you women. You all keep trying to put the gents here in MORE CLOTHING.

In some ways, you and I are very different people...


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## ScreamingChicken (May 5, 2006)

Jes said:


> I will never understand you women. You all keep trying to put the gents here in MORE CLOTHING.
> 
> In some ways, you and I are very different people...


Don't you know that us guys are just anatomically correct Ken dolls for you to play with? I can't tell you how many times my wife and sister in law would take delight in going out and picking my wardrobe for me.


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## Mini (May 5, 2006)

See, now I wouldn't mind playing the "Ken doll" role. I like good clothes, but I'm not exactly the best judge of what goes together. I can't match colors for shit. Need a woman's eye, I guess.


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## ScreamingChicken (May 5, 2006)

I did get a degree of payback on my SIL. When she was dating her future husband, she wanted my opinion on some lingerie to wear for him and I was trickeded in to going shopping with her for some "attire". She me asked what she should get and I told her with an ass like hers to flaunt( she is a stunning pear shaped BBW). She promptly turned a deep shed of red but I think she enjoyed the compliment.


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## ValentineBBW (May 5, 2006)

Mini,

I don't know how bad shipping would be, but here is a site that carries LT sizes.

http://www.casualmale.com/store/en_...sp?id=cat10055&catId=cat10019&filterBy=L-TALL


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## PolarKat (May 6, 2006)

Shipping looked a bit expensive here, but you'd save the pst over ordering stateside. Only shop that has the large sizes in montreal, so it might be a good excuse to take a drive down for the just for laughs or jazz fest 
It's also a family run shop, so you could always call them and try to haggle over the shipping if you're ordering a bunch of stuff..

http://www.groversbigandtall.com/


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

Mini said:


> O
> 
> Also, is hot pink a "gay" color? I'm clueless when it comes to fashion.



Yes!!! OMG it is SO gay! And the minute you put it on you will turn into a raging bottom boy with drag queen tendencies. You will start wanting to listen to ABBA and the Village people and becomes unnaturally attracted to Cher's music, especially from early-mid 90's. You will then quit your job because circuit parties and finding yourself a sugar Daddy with leather fetishes will be much more important to you than earning a living. 

Yes, this is a sarcastic answer to a question that anyone secure in their sexuality wouldn't need to ask.


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## Jane (May 10, 2006)

BeaBea said:


> I love pink on men! I dont think a colour would ever make me wonder about someones sexuality, that would be more down to maybe picking up clues from their words, attitude and mannerisms. (Forgive the gross generalisations!)
> 
> Seeing a cute guy and -wondering- if he was gay would just make me flirt a little harder till I found out  Would that be a bad thing??
> 
> ...


Hell, I ask.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (May 10, 2006)

StoneFemme said:


> Yes!!! OMG it is SO gay! And the minute you put it on you will turn into a raging bottom boy with drag queen tendencies. You will start wanting to listen to ABBA and the Village people and becomes unnaturally attracted to Cher's music, especially from early-mid 90's. You will then quit your job because circuit parties and finding yourself a sugar Daddy with leather fetishes will be much more important to you than earning a living.
> 
> Yes, this is a sarcastic answer to a question that anyone secure in their sexuality wouldn't need to ask.



Your answer made me laugh. A lot. But come on. He's young. He's straight. Don't expect him to be a beacon of understanding yet. I can say as a whole he seems pretty chilled out and comfortable with his sexuality. I think he was just asking since pink's becoming more socially acceptable for men, is it a sexual orientation thing? 

If you go around getting mad at people who make silly faux paus, you pretty much succeed at making REAL homophobes look correct. "Oh look, 'they' are hypersensitive!" You also risk scaring off really nice people from getting to better understand GLBTQ people. 

Hey, I understand being mad about having to endure crap for your sexual orientation as someone who leans to the girl-friendly side of bisexual on the Kinsey scale. However, don't let it make you a bitter person. You miss out on a lot of great things that way. Cherish that you are who you are, stand up for your rights, and be good family to the human race.


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## Mini (May 10, 2006)

StoneFemme said:


> Yes!!! OMG it is SO gay! And the minute you put it on you will turn into a raging bottom boy with drag queen tendencies. You will start wanting to listen to ABBA and the Village people and becomes unnaturally attracted to Cher's music, especially from early-mid 90's. You will then quit your job because circuit parties and finding yourself a sugar Daddy with leather fetishes will be much more important to you than earning a living.
> 
> Yes, this is a sarcastic answer to a question that anyone secure in their sexuality wouldn't need to ask.



I'm quite secure, smartass. 

I was asking from the perspective of someone who was curious, not fearful.


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> He's young. He's straight.




so lemme get this right now: I'm supposed to excuse homophobia in old people cuz they are old and grew up in bigoted times, and now im supposed to excuse it in young people because they are young? Excuses for everyone I see.


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## Mini (May 10, 2006)

OK, now you're being difficult. There's no need for it.


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

Mini said:


> OK, now you're being difficult. There's no need for it.




and there was no need to be homophobic either

Who cares if some small-minded prick thinks the color of your shirt indicates your sexual orientation. Why in the name of everything decent would you lend credit to such an asinine claim by caring what that sort of moron would think? Unless, of course, you are in favor of promoting stereotypes and bigotry.


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## Mini (May 10, 2006)

Yes, I'm afraid of gay people. You caught me.  

(Guess what? I'm bisexual!)


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

Mini said:


> Yes, I'm afraid of gay people. You caught me.
> 
> (Guess what? I'm bisexual!)




1. Being bisexual doesn't mean you can't be homophobic.

2. The fact that you are worried about people thinking the color of your shirt is "gay" is a perfect example of that.


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## Mini (May 10, 2006)

StoneFemme said:


> 1. Being bisexual doesn't mean you can't be homophobic.
> 
> 2. The fact that you are worried about people thinking the color of your shirt is "gay" is a perfect example of that.



1) Granted, but it also doesn't mean that I am.

2) Or, it could be a perfect example of curiosity without fucking judgment, which you can't seem to grasp.


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

Mini said:


> 2) Or, it could be a perfect example of curiosity without fucking judgment, which you can't seem to grasp.




1. You can refrain from using that language with me, little boy. 

2. Use of 4 letter words is a sign of low intelligence and weak position in debate. 

3. Curiosity about what? How to promote stereotypes?


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## Mini (May 10, 2006)

StoneFemme said:


> 1. You can refrain from using that language with me, little boy.
> 
> 2. Use of 4 letter words is a sign of low intelligence and weak position in debate.
> 
> 3. Curiosity about what? How to promote stereotypes?



Humor me, is there any answer I could possibly give you that would change your mind as to my intention, or are you so set in being a contrarian that you're no longer interested in what I have to say?

'Cause frankly, I've got better things to do than debate someone who thinks she has a better understanding of my mind than I do. 

(Oh, and FUCK. Yes, fuck. Great word, fuck.)


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

Mini said:


> Humor me, is there any answer I could possibly give you that would change your mind as to my intention, or are you so set in being a contrarian that you're no longer interested in what I have to say?
> 
> 'Cause frankly, I've got better things to do than debate someone who thinks she has a better understanding of my mind than I do.
> 
> (Oh, and FUCK. Yes, fuck. Great word, fuck.)



You could admit that you have some internalized homophobia and that if you were truly secure in your masculinity that you wouldn't care if some moron thought your shirt color indicated a non heterosexual orientation. 


You could also watch your mouth, you aren't making yourself look better by being crass.


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## BeaBea (May 10, 2006)

StoneFemme said:


> 2. Use of 4 letter words is a sign of low intelligence and weak position in debate.



Ummm, use of nothing but swear words might make me question a persons intelligence and position. Use of a beautifully positioned swear word in a thoughtful post just makes me laugh so much I spit tea all over my keyboard.

Nice one Mini 

Tracey

www.beabea.co.uk


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

BeaBea said:


> Ummm, use of nothing but swear words might make me question a persons intelligence and position. Use of a beautifully positioned swear word in a thoughtful post just makes me laugh so much I spit tea all over my keyboard.
> 
> Nice one Mini
> 
> ...



because reinforcing stereotypes is SO thoughtful ?


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## Mini (May 10, 2006)

StoneFemme said:


> You could admit that you have some internalized homophobia and that if you were truly secure in your masculiniity that you wouldn't care if some moron thought your shirt color indicated a non heterosexual orientation.
> 
> 
> You could also watch your mouth, you aren't making yourself look better by being crass.



Technically, I could watch my fingers. I don't type with my tongue. 

(Point taken, however. I do swear far too often.)

However, I asked whether or not it was a gay color. I didn't say anything about not intending to wear it if it is. I was curious. That's it. That's all there is to it. No hidden homophobia, no agenda. Just curiosity. Imagine that.


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

Mini said:


> However, I asked whether or not it was a gay color. I didn't say anything about not intending to wear it if it is. I was curious. That's it. That's all there is to it. No hidden homophobia, no agenda. Just curiosity. Imagine that.




That is exactly the point...what exactly is a gay color? I interpreted it to mean " a color that small minded bigots want to stereotype and associate with a certain sexual orientation" in which case, why would you want to propmote that kind of bigoted, ignorant type of stereotype?

As a sidenote, I am gay and I wear LOTS of colors, how exactly does a color get "gay" or "straight" status? do the sexuality police come in and decide? is there a vote?


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## moonvine (May 10, 2006)

Dangit, TSL, I can't rep you again.


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## Mini (May 10, 2006)

StoneFemme said:


> As a sidenote, I am gay and I wear LOTS of colors, how exactly does a color get "gay" or "straight" status? do the sexuality police come in and decide? is there a vote?



My guess? Gay telepathy.

(Or, more seriously, that's a question worthy of a freakin' doctorate thesis. I have no idea.)


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## BeaBea (May 10, 2006)

I was commenting on the language Mini used. 

I wasn't commenting on the content of his post. I couldn't detect the slightest hint of homophobia in his postings. I even went back and read the whole thread again to double check and and I still think he was perfectly clear and posing a valid question. I dont have any doubts about his intentions. 

Sorry I dont agree with you but there it is  

Tracey

www.beabea.co.uk


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

Mini said:


> My guess? Gay telepathy.
> 
> (Or, more seriously, that's a question worthy of a freakin' doctorate thesis. I have no idea.)




It is the type of homophobia that gets teenagers beat up for wearing the wrong color in school.. and just because you want to ignore it doesn't mean that it is not true.


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

BeaBea said:


> I was commenting on the language Mini used.
> 
> I wasn't commenting on the content of his post. I couldn't detect the slightest hint of homophobia in his postings. I even went back and read the whole thread again to double check and and I still think he was perfectly clear and posing a valid question. I dont have any doubts about his intentions.
> 
> ...




you are clearly missing the point, stereotypes hurt people, and conforming to them only strengthens them


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## Mini (May 10, 2006)

StoneFemme said:


> It is the type of homophonia that gets teenagers beat up for wearing the wrong color in school.. and just because you want to ignore it doesn't mean that it is not true.



I'll assume you meant homophobia. 

And I'm not at all ignoring that it exists. I know it does. I've seen it firsthand. (Ex-coworker frequently ran into problems because he's gay.) 

If my answer seemed a cop-out, it's because it was. I have no idea how things got the way they are. It's a very far-reaching question, and not one I'm prepared to answer with anything more than a smartassed quip.

I think you're aiming your vitriol at the wrong person. I'm not a homophobe. I don't know how many different ways I need to say this.


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

Mini said:


> =
> 
> If my answer seemed a cop-out, it's because it was. I have no idea how things got the way they are. It's a very far-reaching question, and not one I'm prepared to answer with anything more than a smartassed quip.
> 
> I think you're aiming your vitriol at the wrong person. I'm not a homophobe. I don't know how many different ways I need to say this.




You are either part of the problem or part of the solution, conforming to bigoted stereotypes definitely doesn't help.


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## Mini (May 10, 2006)

Ah, right, my mistake. Because I am not actively campaigning to put an end to every single societal ill I am worthy of being demonized. Gotcha.

Here, one of my friends beat you to it.


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## BeaBea (May 10, 2006)

Thanks StoneFemme - I think I understand a bit about stereotypes. I cant think of a single fat person who doesnt.

My point is simply that I cannot see any reason to take offence at Mini's question. Your indignation at my response indicates that you think I should agree with you. If you want to try to persuade me then give it your best shot and I'll try to follow your reasoning and to remain open minded. 

So far though it just seems like you're determined to take offence where none was intended and I think that trivialises an important point. 

If you want to debate this further though maybe we should take it to PM? I wont respond to this thread again as we seem to have strayed a bit from the 'Fashion' subject of this board.

Tracey 

www.beabea.co.uk


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

Mini said:


> Ah, right, my mistake. Because I am not actively campaigning to put an end to every single societal ill I am worthy of being demonized.




No, I never said that. I said that choosing to conform to bigoted stereotypes promotes them. 

How hard is it to admit that " gee I didn't realize that conforming to bigoted stereotypes might hurt people" and i dunno.. try to REFRAIN from doing it? 

Of course, that would require that a person actually examine their own actions with a critical eye.


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

BeaBea said:


> So far though it just seems like you're determined to take offence where none was intended and I think that trivilaises an important point.



Saying it is ok to promote harmful stereotypes as long as your intent is not maliciious doesn't excuse the harm that is done, nor does it free a person from responsibility for the consequences.


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## Mini (May 10, 2006)

StoneFemme said:


> No, I never said that. I said that choosing to conform to bigoted stereotypes promotes them.
> 
> How hard is it to admit that " gee I didn't realize that conforming to bigoted stereotypes might hurt people" and i dunno.. try to REFRAIN from doing it?
> 
> Of course, that would require that a person actually examine their own actions with a critical eye.



Sorry, I'm a guy. Men don't self-analyse.

Tell me something, as a tall person, should I be offended when someone asks me if I play basketball? I mean, that's a stereotype, right? 

And hey, I'm white. I can't dance, either, but I'll be damned pissed if someone automatically assumes I can't.

Jestery aside, I know what you were saying. But that doesn't change the fact that I was asking a question, sans judgment, based on curiosity. "Is pink considered a "gay" color?" 

Notice that I didn't ask, "Can a straight man wear pink without turning gay?", or "Only faggots like that pink shit, right?".

You've basically said that I'm promoting a stereotype by asking about whether something's a stereotype or not. YOU made the assumption that I had some nefarious ulterior motive.

This is really all I have to say on the matter. If you still think I'm some bigoted bastard, have at it. I'm sick of having to justify a harmless question.


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

Mini said:


> You've basically said that I'm promoting a stereotype by asking about whether something's a stereotype or not. YOU made the assumption that I had some nefarious ulterior motive.
> 
> This is really all I have to say on the matter. If you still think I'm some bigoted bastard, have at it. I'm sick of having to justify a harmless question.



That is just the point. You don't/can't/have no desire to see that just because your INTENT was not malicious that it is possible for harm to come of it. 

You further refuse to acknowledge that harm without intent is still harm. I might not mean to run someone over with my car when they were standing in my blind spot, but if I do it, I am still responsible for it. 

Bottom line: lending weight to stereotypes gives them power. Stereotypes that hurt people need to have their power lessened, not strengthened.


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## Sandie S-R (May 10, 2006)

*StoneFemme...

I understand where you are coming from, I think we all do. However...Mini has clearly stated his intention, and I think we are all willing to take him at face value here, and accept his explanation. As moderator, I am asking that you dial it back a notch. Mini has said he meant no harm, nor was it is intention to promote a stereotype. We need to let it go at that, and get back to the subject at hand. I would prefer not to have to lock a thread like this...but if it continues to denigrate into a slugfest, then I will.

Let's all take a step back, and then we can get back to discussing Mini's wardrobe dillema.

Thanks.

Fashion Board Moderator*


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

Sandie S-R said:


> *StoneFemme...
> 
> I understand where you are coming from, I think we all do. However...Mini has clearly stated his intention, and I think we are all willing to take him at face value here, and accept his explanation. As moderator, I am asking that you dial it back a notch. Mini has said he meant no harm, nor was it is intention to promote a stereotype. We need to let it go at that, and get back to the subject at hand. I would prefer not to have to lock a thread like this...but if it continues to denigrate into a slugfest, then I will.
> 
> ...




Somehow I am SO not surprised. 

I call out someone on homophobic statements and I get told to shut up, but they use 4 letter words and that is ok. mmmm yeah 

my entire point has been missed.


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## Sandie S-R (May 10, 2006)

StoneFemme said:


> Somehow I am SO not surprised.
> 
> I call out someone on homophobic statements and I get told to shut up, but they use 4 letter words and that is ok. mmmm yeah
> 
> my entire point has been missed.



*OK, SM...You have made your point. It was not missed. We hear you. We get it. Mini also stated his point of view, and now I want this put to rest. No where did I tell you to "shut up", I asked you to dial it back a notch. You are not going to get people to see things your way by beating them over the head with your anger. 

Now, let's move on.*


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

Sandie S-R said:


> *OK, SM...You have made your point. It was not missed. We hear you. We get it. Mini also stated his point of view, and now I want this put to rest. No where did I tell you to "shut up", I asked you to dial it back a notch. You are not going to get people to see things your way by beating them over the head with your anger.
> 
> Now, let's move on.*




in other words, shut up

Silly me, I thought a board that was designed for acceptance would be opposed to promoting bigoted, harmful stereotypes.

don't worry, you won't be hearing from me again
I learned my lesson: Bigots come in all shapes and sizes.


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## Timberwolf (May 10, 2006)

StoneFemme said:


> in other words, shut up
> 
> Silly me, I thought a board that was designed for acceptance would be opposed to promoting bigoted, harmful stereotypes.
> 
> ...


Dear StoneFemme,

after reading the entire thread, I have just one question on my mind...

Could it be that you are just a little bit too sensitive about this?



People are grown up with stereotypes. Which means in first place, they don't know it better, even if they want to. You can't claim them to know that it's not right, without telling them first.
Reading your posts, I get a feeling there was something else that hurt you foremost. Then you read this post and let go all of your frustration...

Yours, Chris


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## TheSadeianLinguist (May 10, 2006)

StoneFemme said:


> so lemme get this right now: I'm supposed to excuse homophobia in old people cuz they are old and grew up in bigoted times, and now im supposed to excuse it in young people because they are young? Excuses for everyone I see.



That's hardly homophobia. And whoops on assuming he was straight... (Hell, Mini, what's a gal to guess anymore?) You shouldn't excuse real homophobia. I think we've both probably experienced the real deal, and to me, asking if whatever color is "gay" is not the biggest offense. No one gets hurt. It's like asking if red is a "black" color, or if feminists are "allowed" to wear pink. It's just kind of a weird, silly question.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (May 10, 2006)

StoneFemme said:


> You are either part of the problem or part of the solution, conforming to bigoted stereotypes definitely doesn't help.



Because everything in life is just that dichotomised... YEAH RIGHT! If you think asking if pink is a "gay" color, then you must think my general dislike of wearing dresses on a casual basis is doing nothing but providing fodder for homophobes. 

Before you start ranting at everyone telling them that they're part of the problem, ask yourself what you're doing for the GLBTQ community. Talk is cheap. Do you set the example you preach by being out when it's inconvenient? Donate time or funds to organizations like PFLAG? Offer yourself as a kind ear to closeted people? Try to educate people what GLBTQ people are really like (everyone else)? I do it, and frankly, it's a lot harder than getting your panties in a wad over a message board. And you know what, when you quit sniping and take action, you'll find people often treat you with more respect.


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## Timberwolf (May 10, 2006)

Do you think acting argumentative is the right way to handle this?


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## TheSadeianLinguist (May 10, 2006)

I'm merely saying the attitude of "us vs. the heterosexuals" is dumb. She's treating people the exact same way she doesn't want to be treated, just because she assumes they're straight. The way she's throwing around the word "homophobe" is no better than the way bashers throw around the word "******." It's meant to be equally as hurtful and damaging. When people get all worked up about small things like asking if a color is "gay," I question how involved they are within their own community. 

Picking on queer people is NOT cool, and the first person to do that will receive a hell of an ass whipping from me. Learning to laugh at something that's basically inane bullshit that we know isn't true is what helps us progress out of stereotypes.


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Before you start ranting at everyone telling them that they're part of the problem, ask yourself what you're doing for the GLBTQ community. Talk is cheap. Do you set the example you preach by being out when it's inconvenient? Donate time or funds to organizations like PFLAG? Offer yourself as a kind ear to closeted people? Try to educate people what GLBTQ people are really like (everyone else)? I do it, and frankly, it's a lot harder than getting your panties in a wad over a message board. And you know what, when you quit sniping and take action, you'll find people often treat you with more respect.



I WAS going to walk away from this but since you want to make assumptions:

I am out 24/7/365(336 leap year). I bring same sex partners to family functions, I have lost a job because my manger saw me kiss my girlfriend goodbye in the parking lot, I have held office in LGBT organizations at two universities, worked for the only gay-friendly campus ministry at NIU, co-organized Day of silence, stop the hate, and a number of other special events. 

I provided trucks for the NIU entry in Chicago pride 2 years in a row, and drove one of those years. I dealt with having a parent disown me for over 3 years because I refused to lie about who and what I am. I have been the only out queer in the vast majority of my classes since entering the higher educational system. I have also cleaned the wounds, driven to the ER, and held the hands of people I love who have had the cr*p beat out of them for daring to be out. 

I have been the only source of unconditional love and support for a number of newly out freshmen at NIU, a number of whom call me "mom" out of affection as a result. 

I have been afraid to leave my dorm room for fear of being assaulted by girls on my floor because they left threatening notes when they found out i was gay.

I have been the ONLY person in my family who will stand up to my bigoted, hypocritical, fundie asshole uncle on matters of religion and morals. 

I have been LOUDLY out and proud for over 8 years, and not just when it is "convenient" as you so eloquently put it. 

It is very clear to me that you have no idea what my life is like, so please reserve your assumptions for things you have half a clue about.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (May 10, 2006)

Then why are you worrying about someone asking if pink is "gay" on a message board? Do you see how minute and tiny that is when we have a public official saying that homophobia should pretty much be legalized? BIGGER PROBLEMS, GIRLY!


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Then why are you worrying about someone asking if pink is "gay" on a message board? Do you see how minute and tiny that is when we have a public official saying that homophobia should pretty much be legalized? BIGGER PROBLEMS, GIRLY!




Because hate starts with the small things.

Ask some gay kids who have been bullied in HS if you don't believe me. It starts with " that's so gay" and ends up with someone in the ER. And trust me, it gets there very very quickly.

ETA: Don't take my word for it, see for yourself:

http://www.glsen.org/cgi-bin/iowa/all/news/record/1927.html

Key Findings of the 2005 National School Climate Survey include:

The Scope of the Problem:

# 75. 4% of students heard derogatory remarks such as "******" or "dyke" frequently or often at school, and nearly nine out of ten (89.2%) reported hearing "that's so gay" or "you're so gay" - meaning stupid or worthless- frequently or often.

# Over a third (37.8%) of students experienced physical harassment at school on the basis of sexual orientation and more than a quarter (26.1%) on the basis of their gender expression. Nearly one-fifth (17.6%) of students had been physically assaulted because of their sexual orientation and over a tenth (11.8%) because of their gender expression.

Academic Engagement, Aspirations and Achievement:

# LGBT students were five times more likely to report having skipped school in the last month because of safety concerns than the general population of students.

# LGBT students who experience more frequent physical harassment were more likely to report they did not plan to go to college. Overall, LGBT students were twice as likely as the general population of students to report they were not planning to pursue any post-secondary education.
# The average GPA for LGBT students who were frequently physically harassed was half a grade lower than that of LGBT students experiencing less harassment (2.6 versus 3.1).

Positive Interventions and Support:

# The presence of supportive staff contributed to a range of positive indicators including greater sense of safety, fewer reports of missing days of school, and a higher incidence of planning to attend college.

# Students in schools with a GSA were less likely to feel unsafe, less likely to miss school, and more likely to feel like they belonged at their school than students in schools with no such clubs.

# Having a comprehensive policy was related to a lower incidence of hearing homophobic remarks and to lower rates of verbal harassment. Students at schools with inclusive policies also reported higher rates of intervention by school staff when homophobic remarks were made.



And Events like this would not be necessary if I wasn't telling you the truth here:

http://www.glsen.org/cgi-bin/iowa/educator/library/record/1921.html


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## Mini (May 10, 2006)

OK, I know I said I'd stay out of this, but do you actually think that tomorrow I'm gonna go out and beat someone because today I asked if pink was a gay color?

Get your head out of your ass, girl.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (May 10, 2006)

Seen that study. Here's the thing: We're not high schoolers. We grew up in a homophobic culture. Don't forget, you're speaking to someone who dealt with homophobia on a very real level. We're not talking about calling something "gay" or "black" or "girly." We're talking about a snarky tongue in cheek comment from one grown-up to others. Seriously, you're comparing apples and oranges.


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

Mini said:


> OK, I know I said I'd stay out of this, but do you actually think that tomorrow I'm gonna go out and beat someone because today I asked if pink was a gay color?
> 
> Get your head out of your ass, girl.




You wouldn't be the first or last person to do it, and I'd rather not take the chance. I _will_ call out homophobia and bigotry, and immature insults won't stop me.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (May 10, 2006)

StoneFemme said:


> You wouldn't be the first or last person to do it, and I'd rather not take the chance. I _will_ call out homophobia and bigotry, and immature insults won't stop me.



If you think asking dumb questions = homophobia, move to Tennessee. On that note, I'm done with this.


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Seen that study. Here's the thing: We're not high schoolers. We grew up in a homophobic culture. Don't forget, you're speaking to someone who dealt with homophobia on a very real level. We're not talking about calling something "gay" or "black" or "girly." We're talking about a snarky tongue in cheek comment from one grown-up to others. Seriously, you're comparing apples and oranges.



I don't see it that way. I see it as someone making excuses for a comment that is based in homophobic stereotypes. 

And when he stops acting like a high school kid, I'll stop treating him like one.


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## Mini (May 10, 2006)

So, let's review, just so I'm fully aware of what you're telling me.

1) Asking *any* question that MIGHT have a stereotype attached to it is perpetuating a cycle of hate.

2) Genuine curiosity always has an evil ulterior motive.

3) Pink is emphatically NOT a gay color. 

4) Or maybe it isn't. That never really got answered.

5) You're a saint and should be regarded as such.

Just out of spite I'm going for an all pink wardrobe this year. Thanks for enlightening me. 

(Oh, and FYI, I'm a high school dropout with an IQ slightly higher than room temperature, and I'm still making more sense than you.)


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## StoneFemme (May 10, 2006)

Mini said:


> So, let's review, just so I'm fully aware of what you're telling me.
> 
> 1) Asking *any* question that MIGHT have a stereotype attached to it is perpetuating a cycle of hate.
> 
> ...




All this proves is that you missed the entire point of what I was saying in the first place. 

Have fun in your ignorance, I'm sure you will have much company here.


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## Mini (May 10, 2006)

You had a point?


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## Sandie S-R (May 10, 2006)

*One more time folks, take a breath, and step back from this thread. I am about to lock it, and I do not want to have to.

StoneFemme...It's not so much your message that is a problem, but your delivery that is at issue. You came in here guns blazing and smoke pouring out of your ears, before ever gettting to know Mini or trying to assess what the situation was. You are fairly new to this community, and in looking at your other posts here at Dimensions, most of them are just as hostile and intense. It almost appears that you came here with a major chip on your shoulder just looking for something to pounce on. You made some very serious assumtions about Mini's motives, and that was just as unfair as what you were acusing him of doing. 

If you can't discuss things here in a civil, non-acusatory tone, then you may want to post elsewhere. Attacking others for their ideas, is just not acceptable here. Civil debates are. 

If you have any further concerns please feel free to PM me or email me privately.*


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## missaf (May 11, 2006)

Wow, I totally took Mini's question as someone asking for an informed answer on something he knows nothing about (fashion). Even if he's a straight guy looking to not wear something that stereotypically used for a sexual preference icon, that's his right. 

I, on the other hand, happen to think men look great in colors that match their skin tone. Not everyone can wear pink well.


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## Jes (May 11, 2006)

StoneFemme said:


> Have fun in your ignorance, I'm sure you will have much company here.


I know I, for one, am dumb as dirt!!


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## StoneFemme (May 12, 2006)

Sandie S-R said:


> If you can't discuss things here in a civil, non-acusatory tone, then you may want to post elsewhere. Attacking others for their ideas, is just not acceptable here. Civil debates are.
> 
> If you have any further concerns please feel free to PM me or email me privately.[/b][/i]



Unless those ideas are mine, apparently. 

how do I delete my profile? I no longer have any wish to be a part of this community if it is going to be tolerant of people perpetuating stereotypes and using foul language while silencing unpopular speech.


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## BeaBea (May 12, 2006)

StoneFemme said:


> how do I delete my profile? I no longer have any wish to be a part of this community...



I have no idea. I'm sure a Mod will be able to help you.

I second Sandie S-Rs wise words that the problem doesn't lie in your message so much as your delivery though. 

So speaking personally I'd say dont worry about deleting your profile. As soon as you go away I'll forget all about you 

Tracey

www.beabea.co.uk


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## StoneFemme (May 12, 2006)

BeaBea said:


> I have no idea. I'm sure a Mod will be able to help you.




I don't recall asking you.

And your delivery isn't much better when you start being obtusely rude to someone who is trying to leave and take her profile with her. I don't like the idea of my information being up in a place I am clearly not welcome, and never was. To be fair, I should have known better, this place is very heterocentric, but silly me, i thought I'd give it a chance. Bad move on my part.


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## BeaBea (May 12, 2006)

Oh good grief. It was a joke. Thats what this means -> 
I hope you find a new home on the net and that you're very VERY happy there.

Best of luck

Tracey

www.beabea.co.uk


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## Mini (May 12, 2006)

I s'pose I should feel bad about this, but I don't. YOU misinterpreted my intent and made some rather rude, not to mention incorrect assumptions about me and my character, and then you got pissed when I wouldn't apologize to you for something I never did, or for being something I'm emphatically not.

I'll be the first to admit to a wrong-doing if someone calls me on it, so long as I was actually wrong in the first place. But guess what? I wasn't! You're just overly sensitive!


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## TheSadeianLinguist (May 12, 2006)

StoneFemme, it wouldn't matter if you were lesbian, straight, bisexual. You're just looking to pick a fight with relatively nice people, and that isn't cool. In a world where calling someone a homophobe can be just as powerful as using an anti-gay slur, you're acting little better than a Fred Phelps follower. 

If you take life seriously all the time and judge everyone, you're not going to have much fun. You also won't have much success in educating people if you're hateful. I find when I kindly approach people and talk about issues like homophobia, they quit doing it because they respect me. People don't respect people who just want to pick a fight.


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## Sandie S-R (May 12, 2006)

StoneFemme said:


> I don't recall asking you.
> 
> And your delivery isn't much better when you start being obtusely rude to someone who is trying to leave and take her profile with her. I don't like the idea of my information being up in a place I am clearly not welcome, and never was. To be fair, I should have known better, this place is very heterocentric, but silly me, i thought I'd give it a chance. Bad move on my part.



*StoneFemme...

You still seem unwilling to listen or understand. You were always welcome. Respectful debate is always welcome. It's your attitude, abrasive demeanor, and the condecending way you approach people that is not welcome. If you want your profile deleted, then e-mail or PM the Webmaster, Conrad. He will be more than happy to accommodate you.*


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