# American Airlines Wants to Weigh Passengers to Decide Flight Costs



## ESPN Cutie (Jun 7, 2008)

*Sorry if this is old news. 

But, on tonight's O'Reilly Factor (hosted by Laura Ingraham), they did a segment on American Airlines, who is thinking about weighing customers as a way to determine a passenger's airfare. They would weigh the person and their luggage; anything over the pre-determined weight limit would be charged extra. MeMe Roth was on the show and she said that this was a way to combat rising fuel costs and that it costs more fuel to fly airplanes carrying heavier loads. Meme said that when people ship packages, the package is weighed to determine the cost; thus, it makes sense that people should be weighed to determine the cost of their airplane ticket (if I followed her logic correctly). To see the video, a link to the FoxNews website is below (scroll down a bit and it's on the right side, under the title "Unfriendly Skies") 

http://www.foxnews.com/oreilly/

Laura said that Meme wouldn't have any problems with this because she's skinny; but hell, who do you know wants to be weighed at the airport infront of a long line of strangers? I'm average-sized and I sure wouldn't!*


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## moniquessbbw (Jun 7, 2008)

WHAT MORE DO THEY WANT FROM US? I ALREADY BUY 2 SEATS.


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## ASEXIIBABIIGIRL (Jun 7, 2008)

Ditto! That Makes Absolutely No Sense.


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## UncannyBruceman (Jun 7, 2008)

This is size discrimination in its purest form and I'm both shocked and appalled that this thread isn't swarmed with responses.

Here's the first and only question that comes to my mind...

WHERE THE FUCK IS NAAFA???????


This proves two things to me. Firstly, NAAFA truly is a dead entity that cares for nothing more than giving themselves plaques and stars to hang on their walls for leading an organization that has really done next to nothing for size acceptance (Mo'Nique has done more for fat girls than anything NAAFA has put thought into).

Secondly, it proves that this site is free dating and nothing else. I merely found out about this 20 minutes ago and I'm blasting my guns already...I'm shocked, insulted, and disgusted to see that I'm more or less the only one (out of HOW MANY people who post here???)


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## Shosh (Jun 7, 2008)

Isn't it early morning in America right now? Maybe many people are still sleeping and have not had the chance to view this thread and/or are unaware of the discussion of this topic on Fox News. Be fair. Give people a chance to respond when they can here Bruce.


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## stan_der_man (Jun 7, 2008)

American Airlines is only "considering" doing this. Perhaps I'm naive, but I seriously doubt this is going to happen. They'll probably lose business if they do this.


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## mango (Jun 7, 2008)

*American Airlines (AA) would never be able to pull it off.

It would be a legal minefield to subject people to a weight scale and charge them accordingly. It is size discrimination - against large people of all sizes. It would also be a violation of rights to subject people to a scale in public. It reeks of fascist classification. Would they have scales that go over 400 etc? What if its winter time and people wear more clothes and heavy jackets?

What about a really tall person vs a short person. There would be weight difference there, even if they were both skinny. Professional body builders and athletes who carry alot of muscle would also be subjected to paying more.

In an economic climate where airlines are on the verge of going bust due to high fuel costs and increased competition, this would be the last thing a major airline would seriously do.

I doubt I'll be flying American again after they introduced the checked bag charge. Now the fact they are considering this, is the icing on the cake.

If they really had some f'n brains, they'd promote a "no checked bags" discount for passengers who travel light and don't need to check any luggage. That would save weight and promote lighter travel and pass on a saving to the consumer too. I think AA needs a new marketing dept. 

These National Action Against Obesity (or whatever) people are getting desperate. I saw some of these members of the lunatic fringe outside the hotel at the Vegas Bash last year handing out cards saying stuff like "Don't Feed the Fat People" with a logo symbol of a fat person and a red line through it (kinda like ghostbusters or something). I walked outside and had a look at them on the sidewalk handing out their crap. Fat people should be the last thing they should be worried about.

Now, I wanted to set up a buffet table right there and then on the strip in Vegas directly opposite them and conduct some sort of "Free Banquet for Fatties and all that love them" and have lavish gourmet food and everything - but that would be going over the top a little - especially in the summer heat. (heh )

This latest stunt of theirs is exactly that.. just another cockeyed scheme to target those bad fatties as part of their agenda. They represent people who are afraid of getting fat - part of Sigmund Freud's "Shadow Theory" where what they fear most in themselves is projected out onto others. I think Hitler suffered a similar complex. That Meme Roth girl (president/founder of the group) says she has obesity in her family - which I find very hard to believe. I doubt she's related to or even knows (or bothers to know) any really large people. But I guess that depends on what she defines as obese.

And those two stuck-up peroxide blondes on Fox News can look forward to years of living in fear of the big F.A.T. 'coz I have a revelation for them. Someone needs to tell them and their compatriots that they are losing "the war"....

I see fat people taking over across the board... gaining in numbers... and in size. Cramming trains and buses. Planes shaking more violently in turbulence under heavy duress. All the food eaten. Less park bench space for bums. Increased demand on underwear fabric due to larger sizes. More displaced ocean water due to more fatties swimming at beaches causing sea levels to rise (and then fall lower when they get out). Increased frequency and volatility of earthquakes... And finally.. the earth's mass will grow and attract more planet harming asteroids due to its greater gravitational pull. All because of fat people.


This is the nightmarish armageddon or major fatastrophe (fudgement day? heh) that they all fear.

Let's make it happen.

*


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## Russell Williams (Jun 7, 2008)

*"This proves two things to me. Firstly, NAAFA truly is a dead entity that cares for nothing more than giving themselves plaques and stars to hang on their walls for leading an organization that has really done next to nothing for size acceptance (Mo'Nique has done more for fat girls than anything NAAFA has put thought into)."*

For somewhere between eight and 10 years I was co-chairperson of the national activism committee of NAAFA. During that time I and my co-chairperson accomplished many things for fat people. 

People on this board have complained about and ridiculed some of my daily activism activities and talked about how they would rather quietly and in a dignified manner suffer discrimination if the alternative was to call attention to themselves as they fought discrimination.

I suspect many of these people will be explaining how it be far better to pay more to ride on the airplane that would be to call attention to themselves by trying to fight for equality of opportunity.

By the way, the local school system has 22,000 students. The local school system, because of my work, for the last 25 years has had "size" as one of the categories that cannot be discriminated against. What is your evidence that in the last 25 years that has done nothing for the fat girls in this particular school system?

Yours truly,

Russell Williams


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## jakub (Jun 7, 2008)

LOL - they (AA) wants (no offense) to be first choice for midgets and small thin Chinese people.


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## pani (Jun 7, 2008)

I can't stand to fly anymore with all the crowds, and hassles and delays so this is not something I personally will get worked up about. But as other posters have pointed out, it is a really dumb idea. Most women hate to be weighed. Some corporations who use small planes to taxi VIPs used to ask passengers for their weights had to stop doing it over protests. And that was just for safety concerns as they didn't want to overbook the little planes. 

Some other companies won't do that and clean their clocks.

Maybe this will be the catalyst that finally ticks ticks the public off and sets the off their butts to start fighting back. I am a educator. I get one flat rate per class. If some students take up more of my time, or are more challenging, it is all part of my job. Can you imagine if this were applied to everything.


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## lypeaches (Jun 7, 2008)

OK...here comes the cynic in me. Could this possibly be some sort of wierd publicity stunt to garner gratitude to the airlines? 

As in....
Pretty much everyone is hating on the airlines these days. So...they float a story that is patently ridiculous...and then when they DON'T do it (complete with press release saying that they don't want to embarass their customers) , at least a portion of the flying public is actually relieved that all they have to do is pay yet another fuel surcharge, without threat of a public weigh - in. And voila...making people feel good about paying more money! 

Or is it just me?


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 7, 2008)

mango said:


> *
> I doubt I'll be flying American again after they introduced the checked bag charge. Now the fact they are considering this, is the icing on the cake.
> *


*

Pretty much every airline out there is going to be charging for checked baggage. If not for all bags at least for anything after the first bag. The cost of fuel is causing these fees to come about and until that gets under control we can expect to be charged for whatever they can possibly charge us for...*


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## Ruby Ripples (Jun 7, 2008)

Agree with all the posts here, its horrific. I note that it said they will charge extra for people over a certain weight... So by the same token, they should then have to refund some fare to people under a certain weight, since they are taking up less than their allotted fare "weight". But will that happen? Let me take a wild guess at ... NO. I imagine one could fight that if they are travelling with two children who pay full fare, that they are "underweight" therefore balancing out the heavy person's weight. It's all just ridiculous and another way to get more money out of people.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 7, 2008)

Ruby Ripples said:


> Agree with all the posts here, its horrific. I note that it said they will charge extra for people over a certain weight... So by the same token, they should then have to refund some fare to people under a certain weight, since they are taking up less than their allotted fare "weight". But will that happen? Let me take a wild guess at ... NO. I imagine one could fight that if they are travelling with two children who pay full fare, that they are "underweight" therefore balancing out the heavy person's weight. It's all just ridiculous and another way to get more money out of people.



That's really true though Ruby. Its called weight and balance. I know for my particular airline the average weight of a passenger is figured at 200 lbs and the average weight for a child is 100 lbs. Bags are figured at an average weight of 30 lbs. Some adults and children are above the average weight and some are below. Same thing with the bags. In the end it all balances out...


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## Raqui (Jun 7, 2008)

The humilation lawsuits would be abundant. Imagine fat and skinny alike in line to get weighed. The humilation for some people of size as well as smaller counterparts would be quite evident. You would at the very least have to have a seperate room in which people would be weighted. What about those that cannot walk. Like the elderly? Would you lift them out of the wheel chairs and sit them on a scale. You would also have to have bi-lingual, tri-lingual people etc. To work these positions because we have a many cultures who fly. 


You cannot take the time to weigh each person indiviually and then charge them at the time of arrival for there seat. Does that mean that they would also seat big people next to skinny people? Because if your weight means you only take up half a seat and payed less, then my right as a fat person is to take up the other half since I am literally paying by the pound.

This sounds like bullshit to me and I dont think i will fly AA after hearing about this.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Jun 7, 2008)

Yeah, no, that is ridiculous. Beyond the whole discrimination thing against fat people and what not I really don't think most people, especially women will want to be subjected to this shit. The paranoia about fat in this country is already intense and something like this would be crippling for some. Completely absurd and insulting and while I do dislike the policy of making larger people pay for two seats, I do understand why .. but this? RIDICULOUS.


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## Tina (Jun 7, 2008)

I never used AA anyway, but if this catches on it will be horrible. How many fat people who were fat children remember being lined up and weighed in front of other students? Traumatic. Nope, not gonna do it.


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## mergirl (Jun 7, 2008)

hmm..yeah..and maby you could take skinny people on flights as hand luggage! lol
but seriously, i'm surprised there hasnt been a bigger stink kicked up about this very issue..
Surely companies should be treating custumers as individuals and catering to thier needs.
I was watching some crappy reality show called "airport" or something like that..and a big guy was checking in...and the attendant with a worried look said some numbers into the tanoy..and then took her co-worker aside and said something allong the lines of "oh oh we have a P.O.S emergancy"!! 
I think the poor guy actually did have to pay for two seats, which they made him feel "grateful" for because if the plane was full he would have had to wait for an extra flight.
I think it should be automatic that when you are booking a flight they should ask if you need anything specific, like an extra seat. 
Which should of course be free! Its a shame when "the corporation" as ever seeks out money instead of making people feel like valued and respected custumers..
baws to them!

xmer


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## Raqui (Jun 7, 2008)

I know when i took the amtrack train they gave me a special price and seating arrangement. I paid for only 1 and 1/4 extra for two seats and they made sure to seat me right near a bathroom so I wouldnt have to walk through car after car.


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## Tina (Jun 7, 2008)

I hear you, Raqui. The airlines are just too full of themselves and their own importance. We are not, after all, inanimate parcels to ship from here to there, even though that is obviously how they see us. Cattle. Fat cattle.


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## qwertyman173 (Jun 7, 2008)

mango said:


> I see fat people taking over across the board... gaining in numbers... and in size. Cramming trains and buses. Planes shaking more violently in turbulence under heavy duress.



Wouldn't the plane shake less during turbulence if there were more people on board? Fat flying should be encouraged !!!


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## Tooz (Jun 7, 2008)

Ella Bella said:


> Pretty much every airline out there is going to be charging for checked baggage. If not for all bags at least for anything after the first bag. The cost of fuel is causing these fees to come about and until that gets under control we can expect to be charged for whatever they can possibly charge us for...



US Airways charges for *every* bag now, including the one that goes under the seat in front of you, apparently.

EDIT: I also have to say I'm not really worried about my weight being broadcast for the whole world to see. It might even do some good in a way. Kind of like, hey people, this is what 388 pounds looks like. I'm not immobile, I'm not wheezing like I just ran ten miles, and I CAN fit through the door.  My problem is the fact that assuming I flew AA and was going somewhere nearby, I would think paying 500+ bucks would be a little ridic.


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## elle camino (Jun 7, 2008)

guys.
i'm pretty sure i saw on CNN yesterday that this was a hoax/rumor/joke/whatever. not actually happening.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 7, 2008)

Tooz said:


> US Airways charges for *every* bag now, including the one that goes under the seat in front of you, apparently.



Yeah it sucks. I didn't realize that anyone was charging for carry on bags, though I have to say it doesn't surprise me! 

The airlines are scrambling right now trying to do whatever they can to make up for the cost of fuel, but are going to end up shooting themselves in the foot in the long run.


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## Carl1h (Jun 7, 2008)

elle camino said:


> guys.
> i'm pretty sure i saw on CNN yesterday that this was a hoax/rumor/joke/whatever. not actually happening.



There was a hoax about this, scroll down to the bottom of the page for the "this is a joke" disclaimer.

http://flyderrie-air.com/


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## elle camino (Jun 7, 2008)

right, there we go.
i was really hoping i hadn't hallucinated that.


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## bexy (Jun 7, 2008)

thank god for that, i was beginning to think buses were next and i would be totally screwed lol!


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## Raqui (Jun 7, 2008)

If your going to charge me by the pound feed me by the pound also !!!!

I would think that airlines would give fat people a BIG DISCOUNT on that extra seat. If you think about it. The steward or stewardess only has to serve one person not two people in two diffrent seats. That is one less person to cater to and one less person to look after. One less pillow to run for and blanket to pass on. You only serve one soda and asked one question.(Hopefully) Most fat people get to get on first and are situated before the rest of the people get on. I personally wait until almost everyone leaves for me to leave so we are alot less trouble. 

So in actually one fat person in two seats saves a lot of work for the people who take care of and serve patrons.


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## exile in thighville (Jun 7, 2008)

i'm glad it's a joke, and while this stuff never gets approved for real, it's pretty dehumanizing to think about.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 7, 2008)

Raqui said:


> So in actually one fat person in two seats saves a lot of work for the people who take care of and serve patrons.




Yes but one person taking up two seats loses the airline money. The flight attendants will still have to be on the plane no matter how many seats people take up and their pay comes out of how many seats are sold... 

Fewer seats on that flight earning money mean the less money there is to go around. That means people start losing jobs (which is already happening) and fares and fees start going up (happening too).


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## ThatIsThat (Jun 7, 2008)

If this were true, I would see where they are coming from. It's not price discrimination, because that has nothing to do with costs. It'd be airplane companies just trying to keep their costs down. Look at health insurance. If you smoke, the average cost that the insurance companies have to pay goes up, so your rates increase. It makes sense, imo


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## exile in thighville (Jun 7, 2008)

Ella Bella said:


> Yes but one person taking up two seats loses the airline money. The flight attendants will still have to be on the plane no matter how many seats people take up and their pay comes out of how many seats are sold...
> 
> Fewer seats on that flight earning money mean the less money there is to go around. That means people start losing jobs (which is already happening) and fares and fees start going up (happening too).



Whose problem is this, though? And does pay come out of the flight attendants' pockets for disabled patrons who require special seating arrangments too? I don't think the flight attendants _or_ the fatties should be punished for a condition a relatively strong percentage of the country who flies represents. Shitty paying practices. I don't know how this stuff works exactly, but there should always be accomodations as often as possible and I don't see why the flight attendants should be taking the hit.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 7, 2008)

exile in thighville said:


> Whose problem is this, though? And does pay come out of the flight attendants' pockets for disabled patrons who require special seating arrangments too? I don't think the flight attendants _or_ the fatties should be punished for a condition a relatively strong percentage of the country who flies represents. Shitty paying practices. I don't know how this stuff works exactly, but there should always be accomodations as often as possible and I don't see why the flight attendants should be taking the hit.



It comes out of everyone's pockets employed by that airline. Wasn't suggesting the flight attendants were taking the hit, just responding to the post and making an example. 

Disabled passengers that require a second seat have to pay for them, and I can't speak for anyone else but I don't like that fat people are automatically lumped in with disabled people. I'm fat but I manage just fine, there are those out there that don't but not all of us.


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## ESPN Cutie (Jun 7, 2008)

fa_man_stan said:


> American Airlines is only "considering" doing this. Perhaps I'm naive, but I seriously doubt this is going to happen.



*Sorry if I did not make it clear that this was not set in stone, just a suggestion by AA.*


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## ESPN Cutie (Jun 7, 2008)

Carl1h said:


> There was a hoax about this, scroll down to the bottom of the page for the "this is a joke" disclaimer.
> 
> http://flyderrie-air.com/



*The CNN thing and the FoxNews thing are too different storys. FlyDerrie-air is a fake airline, AA is not.*


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## AnnMarie (Jun 8, 2008)

ESPN Cutie said:


> *The CNN thing and the FoxNews thing are too different storys. FlyDerrie-air is a fake airline, AA is not.*




Can you link directly to any article that actually states that AA said this? I've searched endlessly and can't find a thing other than online blogs that are discussing how "is this where we're headed?" after the baggage check charge they instituted. 

In other words, it's speculation of where will this all end.... but I still am unable to find a single news article that states that AA is considering taking this action - and linking to OReily's main page won't cut it, or to one of his editorials... I'm looking for an actual news piece.... AP, CNN, anything like that. 

Not being argumentative, I just need confirmation that is or is not legit,... and so far I can find nothing that says this is an actual story of something that AA stated/thought/proposed, etc. 

Thanks.


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## Renaissance Woman (Jun 8, 2008)

Tooz said:


> US Airways charges for *every* bag now, including the one that goes under the seat in front of you, apparently.



I flew US Air to the labor day bash, and I didn't get charged for any bags. What they ARE doing is strictly enforcing the "one carry-on plus a personal item" rule. Before, I'd typically have my computer case, my purse, and my very small carry-on (enough room for toiletries and a change of underwear and not much else. My stuff combined takes up less room than one of the typical carry-on suitcases. Nobody said anything to me until last year when I suddenly got grief about having 3 items. 

On my recent trip they were making people check bags at the gate who had more than what they were supposed to, and charging them $25/extra bag.


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## D_A_Bunny (Jun 8, 2008)

If this is a possiblity, I see two things happening -

1- All the skinny chicks will also be complaining about it because they won't want to be weighed either.

2 - There is going to be a long line of FA's applying for the job.


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## exile in thighville (Jun 8, 2008)

Ella Bella said:


> It comes out of everyone's pockets employed by that airline. Wasn't suggesting the flight attendants were taking the hit, just responding to the post and making an example.
> 
> Disabled passengers that require a second seat have to pay for them, and I can't speak for anyone else but I don't like that fat people are automatically lumped in with disabled people. I'm fat but I manage just fine, there are those out there that don't but not all of us.



I wasn't intending to lump them in with the disabled people, I was trying to ask with another example to see if it makes a difference in accomodation's all (fat people aren't necessarily prioritized for extra care usually). It's a sticky situation, I hear what you're saying.


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## sobie18 (Jun 8, 2008)

My cell phone can do this and my IPod crap whatever.................

Here's my Question:

Where the hell are the teleporters? 

Like the ones used in Star Trek.

I am serious. Quit with this cell phone upgrade crap and build me a damn transporter teleporter. Would sure beat flying for 15+ hours...


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## Tooz (Jun 8, 2008)

Renaissance Woman said:


> I flew US Air to the labor day bash, and I didn't get charged for any bags. What they ARE doing is strictly enforcing the "one carry-on plus a personal item" rule. Before, I'd typically have my computer case, my purse, and my very small carry-on (enough room for toiletries and a change of underwear and not much else. My stuff combined takes up less room than one of the typical carry-on suitcases. Nobody said anything to me until last year when I suddenly got grief about having 3 items.
> 
> On my recent trip they were making people check bags at the gate who had more than what they were supposed to, and charging them $25/extra bag.



That's reasonable. I generally have my purse-like item for the seat, and then a small-size LLBean duffel for the overhead, and one checked bag for longer trips. -_o


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 8, 2008)

exile in thighville said:


> I wasn't intending to lump them in with the disabled people, I was trying to ask with another example to see if it makes a difference in accomodation's all (fat people aren't necessarily prioritized for extra care usually). It's a sticky situation, I hear what you're saying.



I hate it, its awful and makes people on both sides of the issue feel bad. We have an official policy on passengers who need a second seat. I ignore it as often as possible but there have been a couple of times on a completely full flight when I've had to approach someone. I dont know if it makes it easier or harder to have someone who's fat suggest that they need a second seat but I usually just upgrade them to first class if at all possible. 

I've also been on the receiving end. Just the other day when flying up to Seattle I had a flight attendant suggest that I'd need an extender, I didn't and knew that I didn't (not on that type of aircraft anyway) and I kinda snapped back at her and told her that I'm fully capable of asking for one if needed. I didn't need someone to look at me and decide that I was too fat and would need a longer seatbelt. I was having a bad, not liking my fat day. 

So I see both sides of this coin, I wish that it was something that no one had to deal with but we do.


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## largenlovely (Jun 8, 2008)

I actually don't know a whole lot about NAAFA, especially because i was actually told that it was more of an exclusive group that really didn't take to outsiders and that i probably wouldn't be welcome...though i know nothing of it, have never been to an event and couldn't even tell ya who runs it or who is a part of it. Regardless of all these things i do still have an opinion lol. I'm also aware that this particular case is a hoax....but in general i'd like to say .....

that NAAFA's job is to speak up for those who are too embarrassed to speak for themselves. I'm sure most other groups who are "different" would rather just hide quietly and try to go unnoticed as well. I think the homosexual community should be an example. They are extremely vocal about receiving their rights and it has brought them a long way. I would love to see a NAAFA representative on fox news right there with that skinny blonde fat hating lady. I wish NAAFA was known nationally instead of mostly amongst our own community. Now, i'm not saying that they're not known or anything...but you know what i mean. I wish NAAFA were more of a well known association ..like PETA or whatever. 

Of course...this is just coming from someone who has nothing to do with the association other than being a fat person. 




Russell Williams said:


> People on this board have complained about and ridiculed some of my daily activism activities and talked about how they would rather quietly and in a dignified manner suffer discrimination if the alternative was to call attention to themselves as they fought discrimination.
> 
> I suspect many of these people will be explaining how it be far better to pay more to ride on the airplane that would be to call attention to themselves by trying to fight for equality of opportunity.


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## Raqui (Jun 8, 2008)

As far as NAAFA - I have been told plenty of negative and postive things about them. I have also been told plenty of negative and postive things about myself.

They say that because i am Queen Raqui I really couldnt care anything about Size Acceptance and Empowerment. But I feel I do. Maybe I am not walking in a rally or doing soemthing of that sort. But I do what I feel I can do. I connect people of size together with resources if I can. I speak to many people indivdually. Help Plus Sized people feel empowered in business no matter what business they choose. And I try to give plus sized people a voice to be heard. Maybe that is amazing to some and barely nothing to others.

I think any organization that gives a voice in some way to people of size is doing something amazing. Those who are willing to reach out to others is a plus. They lead the way for the next generation to move forward and help more. I dont nothing about NAAFA personally other than what i read and hear from time to time. I dont join any organizations because I dont want to be in clicks I stay to myself. 

I am thankful to anyone who does something for people of size. I love to work with people who reach out to me. And if nothing esle. A NAAFA Rep called into my show and gave some great information to the people who were listening. I didnt ask her to be a guest she took an interest in what I did and came on by.

I cant say nothing wrong about that.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 8, 2008)

UncannyBruceman said:


> This is size discrimination in its purest form and I'm both shocked and appalled that this thread isn't swarmed with responses.
> 
> Here's the first and only question that comes to my mind...
> 
> ...



Yes, because expressing my outrage about this issue on the internet is sure to generate such a fog of rage that said emotion turns automatically into activism directed quite effectively against American Airlines


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## Tooz (Jun 8, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> Yes, because expressing my outrage about this issue on the internet is sure to generate such a fog of rage that said emotion turns automatically into activism directed quite effectively against American Airlines



Isn't this a little like the pot calling the kettle black on some level? 



Also, people get mad on the internet. ~Newsflash~


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## UncannyBruceman (Jun 8, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> Yes, because expressing my outrage about this issue on the internet is sure to generate such a fog of rage that said emotion turns automatically into activism directed quite effectively against American Airlines



It's like Melissa said earlier today...if you don't post here at Dimensions, then you probably don't know who or what NAAFA is. It is an activist group that doesn't really seem to act on anything, and I would like to see a NAAFA rep seated next to that diet nazi that appears on The O'Reilly Factor as well. 

I was at the NAAFA convention in MA two years ago and I was left with an empty feeling. I watched all the board members pass awards to each other like a hot potato, and all they really did was show up to the event. All the people who actually put work into putting the event together were simply thanked for their support while the board members themselves were leaving the podium with shopping bags filled with plaques and golden stars.

Since that event, the only time I've seen NAAFA anywhere in the media was a courtroom TV show in which the lovely Sandie Sabo defended the organization. An ex NAAFA member wanted to sue them for being duped into gaining 100lbs and it basically turned into a circus sideshow that probably got a lot of laughs from people who are guilty of size discrimination. Other than that, NAAFA has had NO voice to speak for victims of size discrimination, whereas people like Al Sharpton are yanking white people off of TV and radio and gay rights activists fight diligently for their right to same-sex marriage (which I support unconditionally). The "obesity epidemic" hasn't been spreading amongst human beings, but rather, in the media, and I can't remember a single instance in which NAAFA was there to fight for size acceptance rights or even MAKE A COMMENT.

And finally, being a member of NAAFA isn't free. I don't see the point in paying X amount of dollars to hear people say that they support you when you can just keep in touch with your Dimensions friends for free, online or in person.

So yeah, I'm pissed, and as a former member of NAAFA, I have every right to be. Yet people still support them and continue to pay for this illusion of hope that they've been selling for years.


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## Tooz (Jun 8, 2008)

UncannyBruceman said:


> It's like Melissa said earlier today...if you don't post here at Dimensions, then you probably don't know who or what NAAFA is. It is an activist group that doesn't really seem to act on anything, and I would like to see a NAAFA rep seated next to that diet nazi that appears on The O'Reilly Factor as well.
> 
> I was at the NAAFA convention in MA two years ago and I was left with an empty feeling. I watched all the board members pass awards to each other like a hot potato, and all they really did was show up to the event. All the people who actually put work into putting the event together were simply thanked for their support while the board members themselves were leaving the podium with shopping bags filled with plaques and golden stars.
> 
> ...



You bring a good point up. I really see zilch from NAAFA ANYWHERE. I can't remember if I've even once seen them on TV or in any kind of news or doing anything.


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## UncannyBruceman (Jun 8, 2008)

The last time I heard about them before the court show was somewhere in the area of 1992 on a biography that a news network did on a big handsome male. He told his story of starting local support groups in his own area and then commented on how he looked outside his groups, discovered NAAFA, and got involved with Dimensions when it was still in print, etc.

BUT THAT WAS 1992. That was sixteen years ago, and there have been plenty of advances and attacks related to size acceptance that NAAFA had been absent for. Where was NAAFA when Mo'Nique started fighting the good fight with that beauty pageant she was hosting? Where was NAAFA when Donald Trump was making fat comments about Rosie O'Donnell? Where was NAAFA when that skinny blonde rag from the anti-obesity war machine appeared on O'Reilly and pointed fingers at the fucking GIRL SCOUTS OF AMERICA for promoting 'evil obesity'?

They were hanging up their plaques and then running to the bank.


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## AnnMarie (Jun 8, 2008)

Yeah. 

They issue press releases. Not even a lot of them, but they do. 

Here's a link to them: http://www.naafa.org/newevents/pressreleases.html

The thing is... it wasn't always like this. NAAFA was everywhere all the time... they were the go to organization for size issues, they were right up front and vocal with the whole Southwest thing, powerful enough to get reps from each airline to come and meet with our group during the NAAFA convention in Atlanta. It was nice to see an organization that made a company stand up and take notice. 

I still have hopes that a tide will turn and the things that need to change will change - the things that will bring many dedicated members, participants, and helpers back to NAAFA. But until those things change... I know more than 15-20 very (formerly) dedicated people who won't be involved. Once it turned from an organization that unites people across their hearts and minds and turned into a "give us your money and you'll like what you get" place... I knew it was time for me to go. 

Sad, really.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 8, 2008)

AnnMarie said:


> Yeah.
> 
> They issue press releases. Not even a lot of them, but they do.
> 
> ...



I've been to 1 NAAFA convention, when it was in the bay area a couple of years ago or so. I enjoyed the dance I attended, mostly because of the people that I went there with. I did not enjoy the attitude of a lot of the people I came across. 

It costs way too much money to be a member and I can't see spending all that money to belong to an organization that doesn't do anything.


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## UncannyBruceman (Jun 8, 2008)

...And this is why I felt obligated to throw the first punch. What if this airline discrimination WASN'T a hoax? The posts I've read here suggest that not many of us would expect any help from them.


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## UncannyBruceman (Jun 8, 2008)

AnnMarie said:


> I still have hopes that a tide will turn and the things that need to change will change - the things that will bring many dedicated members, participants, and helpers back to NAAFA. But until those things change... I know more than 15-20 very (formerly) dedicated people who won't be involved. Once it turned from an organization that unites people across their hearts and minds and turned into a "give us your money and you'll like what you get" place... I knew it was time for me to go.
> 
> Sad, really.



I will never forget sitting with you at the awards assembly and watching the board members congratulate themselves for basically getting off the plane to attend the function. I will never forget being hounded for free artwork when one of them learned that I was a cartoonist/illustrator. And I certainly won't ever forget that attending the function required registration fees that ultimately paid for the awards they were giving each other as well as their traveling expenses.

I was a believer until that weekend. I left heart-broken. And like I said, they can't continue to pat themselves on the back for activism that was taken 10 or 20 years ago. Size discrimination continues to appear in all corners of the media and day to day life and they have done absolutely nothing in recent years to fight it.

Thank goodness this airline nightmare was bullshit. While my initial post was fueled by anger and rage, it still got people talking and addressing something that can't be ignored; NAAFA suckling us for what we're worth and celebrating their accomplishments from over a decade ago.


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## Carl1h (Jun 8, 2008)

UncannyBruceman said:


> ...And this is why I felt obligated to throw the first punch. What if this airline discrimination WASN'T a hoax? The posts I've read here suggest that not many of us would expect any help from them.



I was never invested in the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance (or NAMBLA, for all the Daily Show fans) so I have none of your disappointment in them. I do think that it would be a relatively easy thing to start a thread of fat acceptance boilerplate that people can use in emails to protest or complain about fat acceptance issues. It only takes one person with sufficient writing skills and outrage to write up a form email that everyone else can then copy, paste and send. I know it's not as good as a regular letter campaign or a bunch of emails that don't follow the same form, but it is better than nothing, completely within the abilities of the people here... and more useful than just complaining to each other on the boards here.


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## UncannyBruceman (Jun 8, 2008)

That's a swell idea. I'll put some thought into it and pool some ideas with anyone interested in participating.

Then again, I'm no longer a member, so they may charge me to hear me express my concerns.

The invitation still stands, though. If any NAAFA members have been keeping quiet for whatever reason, then now would be a good time to jump in on something that could do us some good.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 8, 2008)

Tooz said:


> Isn't this a little like the pot calling the kettle black on some level?
> 
> Also, people get mad on the internet. ~Newsflash~



On what level would that be? Sure, people get mad on the internet. They just don't usually castigate other people for not being as quick to anger ... as if a sure, swift, angry reaction to a specific issue would ever hope to solve that particular problem ... while nothing is done, except a whole lotta ... angry discussion. 




UncannyBruceman said:


> It's like Melissa said earlier today...if you don't post here at Dimensions, then you probably don't know who or what NAAFA is. It is an activist group that doesn't really seem to act on anything, and I would like to see a NAAFA rep seated next to that diet nazi that appears on The O'Reilly Factor as well.
> 
> I was at the NAAFA convention in MA two years ago and I was left with an empty feeling. I watched all the board members pass awards to each other like a hot potato, and all they really did was show up to the event. All the people who actually put work into putting the event together were simply thanked for their support while the board members themselves were leaving the podium with shopping bags filled with plaques and golden stars.
> 
> ...




I'm not a member of NAAFA, nor have I ever been. I do think that your observations are probably accurate, just based on things that I've heard, and on how obscure the organization remains to most people who are not involved in SA issues.


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## Russell Williams (Jun 9, 2008)

lypeaches said:


> OK...here comes the cynic in me. Could this possibly be some sort of wierd publicity stunt to garner gratitude to the airlines?
> 
> As in....
> Pretty much everyone is hating on the airlines these days. So...they float a story that is patently ridiculous...and then when they DON'T do it (complete with press release saying that they don't want to embarass their customers) , at least a portion of the flying public is actually relieved that all they have to do is pay yet another fuel surcharge, without threat of a public weigh - in. And voila...making people feel good about paying more money!
> ...



Could the whole thing be related to this?

*updated 1:43 p.m. ET, Fri., June. 6, 2008
PHILADELPHIA - Derrie-Air has been exposed. Readers of The Philadelphia Inquirer and Philadelphia Daily News opened their papers Friday to see ads for a new airline called Derrie-Air, which purportedly charges passengers by the pound.

But the new carrier will never get off the ground. It's a one-day advertising campaign about a fake airline by Philadelphia Media Holdings, the papers' owner, and Gyro ad agency.*


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## Rojodi (Jun 9, 2008)

Consider the source. FixedNews, err Fox Noise, will do everything and ANYTHING to get the US to be Stepford Wives and DittoHeads. I saw something on Fox Business News, while flipping through channels. The woman from the Lunatic Anti-Obsesity group was just a fool. She actually believed her own line of BS, like the weight of people on a jet will make a difference in fuel costs :doh:


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## FAinPA (Jun 9, 2008)

Yeah, here is their disclaimer from the bottom of the website:

"The Derrie-Air campaign is a fictitious advertising campaign created by Philadelphia Media Holdings to test the results of advertising in our print and online products and to stimulate discussion on a timely environmental topic of interest to all citizens. All names, identities, characters, persons, whether living or dead, companies, situations, offers, products, services, and other information appearing in this campaign and the associated website are fictitious. Any resemblance to real or fictitious names, identities, characters, persons, whether living or dead, companies, situations, offers, products, services, or other information, is purely coincidental and unintentional. In other words, smile, we're pulling your leg."

I'm not even sure there was any airline "bad news to good news" conspiracy angle of the hoax, though that seems possible considering the swine who run them. But moreover, the newest owners of the newspapers here in Phila. have been hemorrhaging money in the soft ad market and down-spiraling economy, especially in print media. So I think they wanted to see if people are paying attention to their pages and of course get their own free publicity out of the test.




Russell Williams said:


> Could the whole thing be related to this?
> 
> *updated 1:43 p.m. ET, Fri., June. 6, 2008
> PHILADELPHIA - Derrie-Air has been exposed. Readers of The Philadelphia Inquirer and Philadelphia Daily News opened their papers Friday to see ads for a new airline called Derrie-Air, which purportedly charges passengers by the pound.
> ...


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## mergirl (Jun 9, 2008)

missaf said:


> I'm probably the only fat brod here that believes if you use more resources, you should have to pay the price. We sometimes eat more food, so we pay for it. We sometimes drive bigger cars, and pay for the size increase and the gas they use. We need more fabric for our clothing, so we pay high prices for clothes.
> 
> So if I use more gas on a plane because my fat ass weighs twice as much as the guy next to me, even though his shoulders are bugging the lady next to him, and my ass still barely fits in my seat, so be it.


So if people rant the most they should pay tax on all the air they use up??

xmer


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## vardon_grip (Jun 9, 2008)

Rojodi said:


> Consider the source. FixedNews, err Fox Noise, will do everything and ANYTHING to get the US to be Stepford Wives and DittoHeads. I saw something on Fox Business News, while flipping through channels. The woman from the Lunatic Anti-Obsesity group was just a fool.  She actually believed her own line of BS, like the weight of people on a jet will make a difference in fuel costs :doh:



You're not serious are you? Why is this BS? It doesn't matter if weight comes from my fat butt or the golf clubs I am toting to Hawaii to play in the Sony Open. Weight is weight. The Federal Aviation Administration completes calculations for aircraft hourly fuel burn and considers *how fuel burn increases** when there is additional weight on a plane*. Extra weight impacts fuel burn because the engines must expend more energy to maintain flight. (Thrust to Weight ratio) Weight is directly related to fuel costs.


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## mergirl (Jun 9, 2008)

missaf said:


> If the shoe fits.


lmao! totally.. i must owe about a million squillion pounds.. oh dear! lmao
better start ranting less!

xmer


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## vardon_grip (Jun 9, 2008)

[B said:


> ESPN Cutie;813887]*
> 
> But, on tonight's O'Reilly Factor (hosted by Laura Ingraham), they did a segment on American Airlines, who is thinking about weighing customers as a way to determine a passenger's airfare. They would weigh the person and their luggage; anything over the pre-determined weight limit would be charged extra. MeMe Roth was on the show and she said that this was a way to combat rising fuel costs and that it costs more fuel to fly airplanes carrying heavier loads. Meme said that when people ship packages, the package is weighed to determine the cost; thus, it makes sense that people should be weighed to determine the cost of their airplane ticket (if I followed her logic correctly). To see the video, a link to the FoxNews website is below (scroll down a bit and it's on the right side, under the title "Unfriendly Skies") *





[B said:


> *
> 
> http://www.foxnews.com/oreilly/
> 
> ...


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## Russell Williams (Jun 9, 2008)

largenlovely said:


> I would love to see a NAAFA representative on fox news right there with that skinny blonde fat hating lady. I wish NAAFA was known nationally instead of mostly amongst our own community. Now, i'm not saying that they're not known or anything...but you know what i mean. I wish NAAFA were more of a well known association ..like PETA or whatever.
> 
> Of course...this is just coming from someone who has nothing to do with the association other than being a fat person.



Are you looking for something like this?

When she threw the fat on the table I knew I had my work cut out for me.
Tuesday I was invited to help give a presentation for something called Leadership of Howard County. The purpose of the morning was to provide tools for the leaders of Howard County to anticipate and take responsibility for the present and future health care needs of their community. I was invited to give a presentation during the segment titled Impact of Obesity. My co-presenters were:
Christine Walsh, Manager of the Bariatric Program at Johns Hopkins Bayview Medical Center in Baltimore.
Another person who I believe was the chair Of the Nutrition and Fitness Coalition.
When I was first invited to the presentation I e-mailed the Declaration of Fat Independence, The Anthropology Lesson, the Battle of Hagerstown, and the story of the LA dance that occurred simultaneously with the Miss teen California contest. Much to my surprise all of these items had been included in a handout that was given to all the participants in the meeting.
Before the discussion I talked with Christine Walsh. I assumed it was pointless to suggest to her that the program that employed her should be shut down and she should be put out of work. Instead, I mentioned the need for follow-up. She said they did send out cards after a period of time and asked people to return the cards. I suggested that the follow-ups should be for 1, 3, and 5 years and that the follow-up cards should include some sort of a statement explaining that not all weight-loss surgery people kept all of the weight off and for the purposes of collecting adequate data it was very important that people return the cards regardless of whether or not they had gained some or most of the weight back. Ms. Walsh said that that sounded like an excellent idea and she would try to implement it. Of course I also told her of the importance of having some armless chairs available.
The Nutrition and Fitness Coalition person gave the first presentation. She started by taking a 10 pound bag of fat out of her handbag and flopped it on the table in front of her and next to me. She then quickly went through a slide show demonstrating that the average American was getting fatter.
Mrs. Walsh focused on how much effort their bariatric Center had expended on trying to make sure that all of the equipment was fat friendly, that all of the staff had been trained in moving and physically and emotionally supporting fat people and that, where needed, surgical instruments were acquired that could better deal with very large bodies.
Now it was my turn. If I were to say that fat can be healthy I wouldve lost the audience. If I were to criticize bariatric surgery I would be considered a fool for not wanting to help these poor desperate fat people have available to them this marvelous life-saving surgery (for those who missed it the last 10 words were sarcasm). Since the first presenter had talked a lot about exercise I decided to start with that. I started the presentation by pulling out my visual aid. Next to the 10 pounds of fat I put my tricycle crash helmet. I asked the group how many people had ridden bicycles to the meeting. No hands went up. I asked the group how many of them regularly rode bicycles to their work. No hands went up. I asked the group how many regularly walk to work. No hands went up.
As I gave my presentation I was standing, I was looking at various people in the room, and I was working with no notes. I told of how people talk about children needing more exercise and of how I have encouraged the local educational leadership to ride bicycles and tricycles to the nearby schools and of how nobody takes me seriously. While holding the crash helmet I told them that I had ridden my tricycle about 1000 miles in the last 12 months. I talked of how the average American is getting fatter and at the same time spending more and more money on exercise and dieting. I pointed out that the only logical explanation is that no diets work. I showed two books from the Serendipity series. Leo the Lop teaches that variability in ear size is perfectly acceptable. Catundra teaches that the only way the fat child can become socially acceptable is to get thin. I talked about the need for adequate seating for fat people in school auditoriums. I told of how Washington County handles this need. As best I remember I also talked about how employees should be evaluated on competency factors and not weight. I explained that fat is not a four letter word and that my wife is a fat, white, woman. I explained that she is not ashamed of being a woman, white, or fat. I added that some of her best friends were women, and/or fat, and/or white. I mentioned that she also had friends who were none of those things. By that time my six allocated minutes were up
When I sat down the 10 pounds of fat lady asked me if I wore a pedometer. I told her I did not. At some point this woman mentioned that she had a grandchild who had Prater Willie syndrome.
In the questioning Dr. Rich Krieg, the moderator, asked if employers should be required to hire fat people when they knew that the hiring of fat people would add to their health care costs. I pointed out that their are health care costs associated with being black and, pointing to a black man in the audience, asked him if he would have any objection to employers refusing to hire black people because of their potential additional health risks. With power in his voice he stated that he would find such a situation very objectionable.
Someone stated that this will be the first generation of children that grow up living with a shorter life expectancy than their parents. I pointed out that if that was true then Social Security was saved. I pointed out that if I live to be a hundred I will collect about $1,500,000 in pensions and Social Security. I asked why that meant dying early because Im fat would be more expensive than the living to be 96, collecting well over $1 million, and dying slowly in a series of nursing homes as my father did.
I was allowed to give the last word. Before exercise becomes popular a whole change in social norms will have to take place. For instance, saying to someone, You look all hot and sweaty, will have to be a complement, and that will be a long time coming. I left them laughing.
Yours truly,
Russell Williams


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## UncannyBruceman (Jun 10, 2008)

vardon_grip said:


> [B said:
> 
> 
> > ESPN Cutie;813887]*
> ...


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## largenlovely (Jun 10, 2008)

I don't mean to sound as if i'm implying that NAAFA does nothing..that really wasn't my intent. I'm aware that just because i don't happen to hear about things, that doesn't mean they're not going on. What i was trying to get at is that ..yeah, what Bruce said lol...i just wish NAAFA were more vocal nationally and that if there were an obesity related issue, someone like Bill O'Reily or Larry King..or whoever, would call a NAAFA representative to be on the show to stand up for us. I wish someone were there at the slightest provocation saying, "WHOAH wait a minute!!! Fat people have rights too!!". 



Russell Williams said:


> Are you looking for something like this?


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## UncannyBruceman (Jun 10, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> Are you looking for something like this?



Yes, but no. You're obviously out there, trying to make a difference, and I commend you for it. But here's the thing, Russel...a single lion's roar will command more attention than the sound of 10,000 worker ants. This is why I will wait to hear what Rosie O'Donnell has to say if regulations like this are ever approved on airlines, mainly because I'm pretty sure that NAAFA will sit it out. 

Not to say that what you personally do doesn't count for anything, but I'm sure you see where I'm coming from. Once again, if you're not a regular here at Dimensions, then you probably have no idea what NAAFA is or what they stand for (and these days, I question that myself...and I was a member). 

Fat people face more discrimination than any other social group in this country. Unless NAAFA selects a champion to appear on these talk shows and news shows to fight or at least comment on these discriminations, then these discriminations are likely to continue and cause us more grief. You can raise the argument that NAAFA can't be everywhere, but, if NAAFA has no problem taking money from people everywhere, then said people are entitled to see size activism where they are...whether it's in local news or nationwide news.


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## Russell Williams (Jun 12, 2008)

UncannyBruceman said:


> Yes, but no. You're obviously out there, trying to make a difference, and I commend you for it. But here's the thing, Russel...a single lion's roar will command more attention than the sound of 10,000 worker ants. This is why I will wait to hear what Rosie O'Donnell has to say if regulations like this are ever approved on airlines, mainly because I'm pretty sure that NAAFA will sit it out.
> 
> Not to say that what you personally do doesn't count for anything, but I'm sure you see where I'm coming from. Once again, if you're not a regular here at Dimensions, then you probably have no idea what NAAFA is or what they stand for (and these days, I question that myself...and I was a member).
> 
> Fat people face more discrimination than any other social group in this country. Unless NAAFA selects a champion to appear on these talk shows and news shows to fight or at least comment on these discriminations, then these discriminations are likely to continue and cause us more grief. You can raise the argument that NAAFA can't be everywhere, but, if NAAFA has no problem taking money from people everywhere, then said people are entitled to see size activism where they are...whether it's in local news or nationwide news.




From about 1977 to 1996 I had a pretty good idea of what NAAFA was about and doing. Most of that time I was an elected member of the board of directors of NAAFA and also the Co-chairperson of the National Activism Committee of NAAFA.

These days the leadership of naafa does not much talk to me tho I would be happy to talk to them about activism and ways to increase visibility of the organization and its leaders. If any of them want to give me a call I can give them my phone number and would be happpy to discuss things with them.

The past co-chairperson of the National Actvism Committee is also available to disucss her expieriences and thoughts. Actually the president of NAAFA may have my phone number and I actually have access to her phone number but I would not want to call her if it would bother her to talk to me.

Russell Williams


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## UncannyBruceman (Jun 12, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> From about 1977 to 1996 I had a pretty good idea of what NAAFA was about and doing. Most of that time I was an elected member of the board of directors of NAAFA and also the Co-chairperson of the National Activism Committee of NAAFA.
> 
> These days the leadership of naafa does not much talk to me tho I would be happy to talk to them about activism and ways to increase visibility of the organization and its leaders. If any of them want to give me a call I can give them my phone number and would be happpy to discuss things with them.
> 
> ...



Russell,

It feels that your post is merely backing my argument. You OBVIOUSLY know what NAAFA is all about if you were active with them for nearly 20 years. But what about Bill O'Really? Geraldo Rivera? Or any other major media player who tackles social issues on their programs? Do THEY know?

Sounds to me like you're the lion that I made reference to, and if you feel that it would bother NAAFA's board members to contact you, then it merely confirms that just about everything I said about them has a good amount of truth to it.


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## EtobicokeFA (Jun 12, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> From about 1977 to 1996 I had a pretty good idea of what NAAFA was about and doing. Most of that time I was an elected member of the board of directors of NAAFA and also the Co-chairperson of the National Activism Committee of NAAFA.
> 
> These days the leadership of naafa does not much talk to me tho I would be happy to talk to them about activism and ways to increase visibility of the organization and its leaders. If any of them want to give me a call I can give them my phone number and would be happpy to discuss things with them.
> 
> ...



I know what you guys are talking about! I remember during the 80's how NAAFA, always had a front person on call to talk to media almost immediately after stuff like this comes to light. And, NAAFA was the cornerstone of the movement. It was a group that I was excited to be apart of. 

Today, we have more splinter groups than I can keep track of. Dimensions seems to be the most active community for the movement, while NAAFA's message boards seems almost dead. 

Don't get me wrong. I applaud them for leading the charge for weight discrimination laws in Massachusetts. And, I know that being non-profit they might not have the resources. However, I agree that one of the things that NAAFA should get back into is getting some public exposure for itself and the movement, specially when issue like this comes up.


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## Russell Williams (Jun 12, 2008)

UncannyBruceman said:


> Russell,
> 
> It feels that your post is merely backing my argument. You OBVIOUSLY know what NAAFA is all about if you were active with them for nearly 20 years. But what about Bill O'Really? Geraldo Rivera? Or any other major media player who tackles social issues on their programs? Do THEY know?
> 
> Sounds to me like you're the lion that I made reference to, and if you feel that it would bother NAAFA's board members to contact you, then it merely confirms that just about everything I said about them has a good amount of truth to it.



Years ago 60 minutes came to the NAAFA convention and did a show about it. Mike Wallace asked my wife how much she weighed. She said she weighed 350 pounds. I interrupted and said 375. My wife laughed, shrugged her shoulders, and said, "He is always bragging".

That interaction was used as a teaser for the week before that show aired.

Oprah Winfrey knows a little bit about NAAFA because, before she got her own show, I was twice interviewed by her.

In 2001 the Discovery Channel did a show about fat acceptance and discrimination. Acquaintances tell me that occasionally they still see me on reruns of that particular Discovery Channel show. I am the one standing in front of the United States Capitol talking about some of the evils of size discrimination.

Because of interaction started by me the Denny's restaurant chain revised its whole seating policy for new restaurants built and for restaurants that were retrofitted. 

I have experience talking to both reporters and on TV. For the last eight years, almost once every two weeks I have given a five-minute televised presentation on educational topics. Talking about education and/or size discrimination I've been on radio shows, TV shows, given presentations to hospital administrators, college students, and written many, many, letters to the editor.



Yours truly,

Russell Williams


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## largenlovely (Jun 12, 2008)

you are definitely not the guy we're aggrivated with then Russ  



Russell Williams said:


> I have experience talking to both reporters and on TV. For the last eight years, almost once every two weeks I have given a five-minute televised presentation on educational topics. Talking about education and/or size discrimination I've been on radio shows, TV shows, given presentations to hospital administrators, college students, and written many, many, letters to the editor.


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## UncannyBruceman (Jun 13, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> Years ago 60 minutes came to the NAAFA convention and did a show about it. Mike Wallace asked my wife how much she weighed. She said she weighed 350 pounds. I interrupted and said 375. My wife laughed, shrugged her shoulders, and said, "He is always bragging".
> 
> That interaction was used as a teaser for the week before that show aired.
> 
> ...



You're proving me right, Russell. After all, you did say that you left NAAFA in 1996. Everything that you participated in after that was on your own accord, and no one is telling you that it's not enough.

You said yourself that it may bother NAAFA's board members to contact you for public speaking or anything else. And that, to me, is backwards. For Peggie Howell to ask a starving artist for free artwork and then appear on a game show (or so I was told earlier tonight) instead of appearing on 60 Minutes...well...that tells me all I need to know about what they do with themselves these days.

If NAAFA board members truly took discrimination as seriously as you do, none of us would have anything to be angry about.


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## butch (Jun 13, 2008)

Well, for those of you who are less than pleased with NAAFA, you're not alone. Other folks who feel similarly to you have launched fatrights.org and are trying to get a new activist organization off the ground. If you're interested in trying to do what you wish NAAFA would do, then check them out.

I'm not invested in defending NAAFA, I'm a member, and I don't view it the way others do, but I do know that Jeanie Toombs, before she passed away, was on MSNBC talking about the MA size/height discrimination bill, and I know other folks with connections to NAAFA who have been in print, radio, and TV talking about fat rights. If Bill O'Reilly and their ilk don't want to book NAAFA folks, there sure isn't a whole lot NAAFA can do about it, and MeMe Roth is just a media whore.

Maybe we need a media whore as awful as MeMe Roth to get booked on Fox News, and if so, then I have to say I'm glad NAAFA isn't represented on those shows.

But yeah, whats that phrase about 'be the change you want to see in the world'? I may not be on TV, but I'm doing my own activist work, and I urge all of you to find something you can do to let the rest of the world know that fat hate needs to stop, even if you're not affiliated with any organization. No group of people should sit back and let an organization do all the work for them, and thats one reason why the NAACP, the HRC, LULAC, NOW, and so on get shit done-because the people they represent know they have to get involved at both the national and grass roots level.


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## cute_obese_girl (Jun 13, 2008)

missaf said:


> I'm probably the only fat brod here that believes if you use more resources, you should have to pay the price. We sometimes eat more food, so we pay for it. We sometimes drive bigger cars, and pay for the size increase and the gas they use. We need more fabric for our clothing, so we pay high prices for clothes.
> 
> So if I use more gas on a plane because my fat ass weighs twice as much as the guy next to me, even though his shoulders are bugging the lady next to him, and my ass still barely fits in my seat, so be it.



I agree with you. I'd be willing to pay more because I weigh more if and only if the airlines did the following:

1) got rid of the buy two seats if you don't fit rule
2) actually equipped the planes with seats wide enough for my ass to fit in and with appropriate length seat belts to go with it
3) there were a lesser charge for children and smaller adults (this weight thing has to go both ways after all)
4) The difference in fees between weight classes was minimal like $10-$15. My fat ass might use more fuel, but the bulk of fuel use is simply running the engines with no passengers.
5) The scale was in the floor at the check in counter and gave a color code visible only to the ticketing agent (eg. yellow for 1-99lbs, blue for 100-199, green for 200-299, etc)

Okay, I'm totally a loser for thinking this through so much, but a lot of my family is in the airline business. Something has to be done so that people of all sizes can travel and the airlines can stay afloat so airport and aircraft personnel can keep their jobs. I think this would be a fair enough compromise.


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## Russell Williams (Jun 13, 2008)

butch said:


> If Bill O'Reilly and their ilk don't want to book NAAFA folks, there sure isn't a whole lot NAAFA can do about it, and MeMe Roth is just a media whore.
> 
> 
> level.



25 to 50 fat people and friends picketing outside of the building that Bill O'Rielly broadcasts from might get his attention. If not his attention then the attendion of his competitors-which would include the local newspapers.

And these days, if O'Riley will not do the story then NAAFA people should be able to record it and post it on You Tube or the like.

Prehaps a heading of "Fat People Bug Bill O'Riley" That might be an interesting enough title to get people to click on the link.


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## butch (Jun 13, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> 25 to 50 fat people and friends picketing outside of the building that Bill O'Rielly broadcasts from might get his attention. If not his attention then the attendion of his competitors-which would include the local newspapers.
> 
> And these days, if O'Riley will not do the story then NAAFA people should be able to record it and post it on You Tube or the like.
> 
> Prehaps a heading of "Fat People Bug Bill O'Riley" That might be an interesting enough title to get people to click on the link.



That's a good tactic, for sure. Maybe the local NY NAAFA affiliate might be interested in organizing that? YouTube is another great suggestion, Russell.


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## moonvine (Jun 13, 2008)

Raqui said:


> If your going to charge me by the pound feed me by the pound also !!!!
> 
> I would think that airlines would give fat people a BIG DISCOUNT on that extra seat. If you think about it. The steward or stewardess only has to serve one person not two people in two diffrent seats. That is one less person to cater to and one less person to look after. One less pillow to run for and blanket to pass on. You only serve one soda and asked one question.(Hopefully) Most fat people get to get on first and are situated before the rest of the people get on. I personally wait until almost everyone leaves for me to leave so we are alot less trouble.
> 
> So in actually one fat person in two seats saves a lot of work for the people who take care of and serve patrons.



I only buy one seat. One person, one seat.


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## moonvine (Jun 13, 2008)

mango said:


> *American Airlines (AA) would never be able to pull it off.
> 
> It would be a legal minefield to subject people to a weight scale and charge them accordingly. It is size discrimination - against large people of all sizes.*


*

From what I can see this is a dead issue because the original post turned out to be a joke, but people should realize that "size discrimination" is not against Federal law and in only a few places is against state or local law. So basically for the most part they can legally do it all they like. Whether or not it would be a good idea, or workable, or customer-friendly is a different story, but legal it is.*


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## BigBeautifulMe (Jun 14, 2008)

I agree that NAAFA is not what it used to be. 

Just as an FYI though, I saw NAAFA's Linda Ramos on "Moment of Truth" last week, asking the contestant if fat people repulsed him. They said she was from NAAFA and explained what NAAFA stood for.


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## UncannyBruceman (Jun 14, 2008)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> I agree that NAAFA is not what it used to be.
> 
> Just as an FYI though, I saw NAAFA's Linda Ramos on "Moment of Truth" last week, asking the contestant if fat people repulsed him. They said she was from NAAFA and explained what NAAFA stood for.



Good for her, but not for nothing, I'd find it a little more productive and meaningful to see her do that with Meme Roth and not some jackass looking to win a half a million dollars on some flash-in-the-pan game show.


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## BigBeautifulMe (Jun 14, 2008)

I completely agree. But at least it's SOME kind of visibility. Who knows? Maybe some fat people watching that show decided to google NAAFA and discovered Fat Acceptance for the first time. Here's hopin.'


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## Russell Williams (Jun 15, 2008)

butch said:


> That's a good tactic, for sure. Maybe the local NY NAAFA affiliate might be interested in organizing that? YouTube is another great suggestion, Russell.



It is my understanding that national NAAFA neither encourages nor supports chapters. I hope that I am wrong.

In the 80s they were three or four active chapters in the New York City area. I do not know if there are any active chapters there now. If there are no local chapters are leaders in the New York City area it would be very difficult for national NAAFA to find 25 or 50 local New York people and the required leadership to put up a picket line around anything.

Yours truly,

Russell Williams


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## butch (Jun 15, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> It is my understanding that national NAAFA neither encourages nor supports chapters. I hope that I am wrong.
> 
> In the 80s they were three or four active chapters in the New York City area. I do not know if there are any active chapters there now. If there are no local chapters are leaders in the New York City area it would be very difficult for national NAAFA to find 25 or 50 local New York people and the required leadership to put up a picket line around anything.
> 
> ...



The NYNAAFA chapter, from what I hear from people in it, seems to be one of the more active NAAFA chapters. I also hear that the LA NAAFA chapter is VERY active. If the NYNAAFA chapter paired up with NOLOSE, I bet they could get 25-50 folks very easily in NYC to picket. I also know national board members who would happily support such an event.


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## IszyStone (Jun 16, 2008)

This would be extremly horrible especially for the people who live in Hawaii. Basically to get out of this state we HAVE to fly or endure a long cheesy boat cruise that would take a chunk out of our lives and wallets. It's also horrible for the people of this state, my home, because there are a lot of larger people not just fat people but larger people. Like the samoans who live here who are just large because that's what that race is. 
This brings me to my next point IF they do serve the pacific United Airlines would get a lot of complaints and maybe rebellion because flying is one of the few ways for the Pacific Islanders to get around AND the people in the Pacific are larger because the cultures here, In the Pacific, do honor larger people. So if they do indeed go through with this they'd better be ready for the native invasion.


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