# weight loss and salvation



## Dr. Feelgood (Mar 9, 2012)

Some years ago I read an account of a minister's wife who lost considerable weight because, in her words, "Being fat was not pleasing to the Lord." Although the U.S. may seem rabidly religious to many of our European colleagues, our trend throughout most of the twentieth century has been towards a more secular society. But at the same time, a number of "health" (i.e., weight loss) magazines* have adopted a sort of revivalist approach, featuring stories of (caloric) sin, repentence, and spiritual struggle, culminating in thinness as a sort of secular redemption. There are group weight-loss programs in which backsliders are reproved and encouraged to repent and confess their sins. I cannot help but wonder if, in an increasingly secular age, weight loss has become, not merely a business, but a secular religion? What do you think?


*Okay, so I read them for the "before" pictures. Your point?


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## imfree (Mar 9, 2012)

I've wondered the same thing, myself, because the psychological aspects look similar to me.


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## Surlysomething (Mar 9, 2012)

I think people need to stop mind other people's business. It's becoming ridiculous to the point of extreme.

I'm so sick of the shame in everything. Sheeple and their views push me further and further away from giving a shit about just about everything.


GET OFF MY LAWN


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## Orso (Mar 9, 2012)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> .....weight loss has become, not merely a business, but a secular religion? What do you think?



Very interesting point of view! Maybe a friend of mine is right saying that humans need a religion, so in secularized societies we make for ourselves a secular one.

Last century the secular religion was communism, with bearded major and minor prophets, sacred texts, heresies and heretics, apocalypse, salvation of mankind and so on. This century it is weight loss. 

Great!


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## liz (di-va) (Mar 9, 2012)

http://www.salon.com/2012/01/31/praying_to_be_skinny_and_straight/

haven't read it. looks interesting.


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## Lizzie (Mar 10, 2012)

When I read this, a couple of things come to mind. One is the success of Christian-based programs like the Weigh Down workshop. The weight loss industry has definitely turned to religion as a marketing tool. And why not? What better way to sell a product than to convince the ultra-religious that they are not going to be pleasing to God if they don't buy it?

But going back to the OP's original point, I do think weight loss has become a religion. Even listening to dieters in their conversation, you can hear the cycle of sin-forgiveness that is present in so many religions. "Oh, I've been so bad...I ate X". "That's okay, you can start dieting again." And those who are successful are revered. "Did you hear about so-and-so? She lost 100 pounds!" "How did you do it? What's your secret?" Substitute religious phrases for the weight loss phrases and this wouldn't sound too out of place in a church. 

P.S. Imfree, your signature always makes me want to blast Aerosmith at top volume.


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## Fat Brian (Mar 10, 2012)

When traditional Jesus-based salvation proves unsatisfactory people often turn to an alternative means to save their souls. Some people turn to very restrictive diets, believing in a vegetable-based salvation, while others turn to saving the earth or saving the animals or various other things. It seems to be about finding a way to feel superior to other people, that you are doing something more deserving of favor than someone else.


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## EMH1701 (Mar 13, 2012)

Weight loss has indeed become a religion for some. When you have group sessions like Weight Watchers essentially becoming the church for dieters, it has replaced religion.


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## imfree (Mar 13, 2012)

Lizzie said:


> When I read this, a couple of things come to mind. One is the success of Christian-based programs like the Weigh Down workshop. The weight loss industry has definitely turned to religion as a marketing tool. And why not? What better way to sell a product than to convince the ultra-religious that they are not going to be pleasing to God if they don't buy it?
> 
> But going back to the OP's original point, I do think weight loss has become a religion. Even listening to dieters in their conversation, you can hear the cycle of sin-forgiveness that is present in so many religions. "Oh, I've been so bad...I ate X". "That's okay, you can start dieting again." And those who are successful are revered. "Did you hear about so-and-so? She lost 100 pounds!" "How did you do it? What's your secret?" Substitute religious phrases for the weight loss phrases and this wouldn't sound too out of place in a church. *
> 
> *P.S. Imfree, your signature always makes me want to blast Aerosmith at top volume. *



Thanks. True story, I first heard that great song when I was 21 and wondered if I'd be singin' about those "lines on my face" when I was in my 50's. Now I know they come from all that losin' it takes to really win anything.

*I actually have heard "Atkins" more than Jesus in some people's after church conversations.


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## liz (di-va) (Mar 13, 2012)

imfree said:


> *I actually have heard "Atkins" more than Jesus in some people's after church conversations.


Hah! Interesting.


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## imfree (Mar 13, 2012)

liz (di-va) said:


> Hah! Interesting.



It could get really interesting if someone in a church got it all mixed up and started something from the Second Chapter of At's!!!


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## Azrael (Mar 13, 2012)

It's very much a "religious" thing.

Basically, being fat has become a moral issue over a health issue. The idea is that being fat means that someone "must" be lazy and glutonous. So, if someone is fat to the mainstream it's seen as being morally bankrupt and sinful (as gluttony and sloth are two of the supposed deadly sins).

To this end, we can understand how losing weight has become a religion. The thin are not "sinful" for their weight is supposedly a sign of their activity and self restraint (thus "holy"). While the "morally bankrupt" fatties are supposedly sinful because according to the usual shtick they are Lazy and glutonous.


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## CastingPearls (Mar 13, 2012)

Azrael said:


> It's very much a "religious" thing.
> 
> Basically, being fat has become a moral issue over a health issue. The idea is that being fat means that someone "must" be lazy and glutonous. So, if someone is fat to the mainstream it's seen as being morally bankrupt and sinful (as gluttony and sloth are two of the supposed deadly sins).
> 
> To this end, we can understand how losing weight has become a religion. The thin are not "sinful" for their weight is supposedly a sign of their activity and self restraint (thus "holy"). While the "morally bankrupt" fatties are supposedly sinful because according to the usual shtick they are Lazy and glutonous.


Very much this.

As a survivor (and escapee) of fundamentalism, I can tell you that it is part and parcel of the intent to control believers in every aspect of their lives. You're indoctrinated that you're a moral or spiritual failure (the body is the temple of the holy ghost and those who 'abuse' it are sinning against themselves and god) so it would stand to reason, while losing weight has become a religion, religion has also become the perfect vehicle to shame people into losing weight. 

Ironically, the biggest glutton I knew was quite thin and a leader in the church my family belonged to. She bragged how she would eat, then force herself to vomit so she could eat again. She also hated fat people. She was also considered quite righteous by the congregation.

That church had a program called Thin for Him which was dieting, exercise and being accountable to each other (read emotionally abusing under the guise of spiritual guidance). When they asked me if I was interested in joining, I politely declined and was soon ousted from another area I was involved in (volunteering in the nursery during services). I was considered too rebellious and not a good influence on children.


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## Lizzie (Mar 13, 2012)

Azrael said:


> Basically, being fat has become a moral issue over a health issue. The idea is that being fat means that someone "must" be lazy and glutonous. So, if someone is fat to the mainstream it's seen as being morally bankrupt and sinful (as gluttony and sloth are two of the supposed deadly sins).
> 
> To this end, we can understand how losing weight has become a religion. The thin are not "sinful" for their weight is supposedly a sign of their activity and self restraint (thus "holy"). While the "morally bankrupt" fatties are supposedly sinful because according to the usual shtick they are Lazy and glutonous.



I agree, and is it just me or does it seem like that has become more true recently, with the heightened focus on obesity in this country?


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## CrystalDiorDoll (Mar 14, 2012)

ive been approached twice by the same woman at my church suggesting gastric bypass to me also one of the elders wives put a offensive lil comic strip on facebook the women in the ad was saying they were happy she was saying impossible cant be fat and happy and no man could love them im considering leaving that church tell me what do yall think i should do


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## DarkHephaestus (Mar 14, 2012)

imfree said:


> It could get really interesting if someone in a church got it all mixed up and started something from the Second Chapter of At's!!!



This topic depresses me greatly. Not only as a man who wishes to see greater size acceptance, but as a Christian as well. Lately I've been hearing so many stories about churches promoting so much un-Christ-like behavior, that I am actually quite ashamed to call myself a "Christian" in the now traditional sense. I'm starting to think that "Follower of Christ" is more accurate, as there are so many "Christian" groups that villianize and ostracize so many people and cultures, its insane.

Let me ask these "Thinner and Holier Than Thou" people: Did Jesus judge the appearance of his peers? Did he rebuke people because they sinned? No! Christ was at home amongst the sinners. His company was often prostitutes, tax-collectors, liars, and mortgage bankers (jk). His actions showed that He loved EVERYONE. Now if these congregations are going to criminalize something as silly as adipose, then I truly wonder if they even read the New Testament! If they are so quick to point out the fat speck on their friends' eyes, they are overlooking the plank in their own.

Each day, I shake my head at the stupidity of the world. I still love everybody, I just wish they'd all brighten up a bit!


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## Skye23 (Mar 14, 2012)

Um, find another church? One that loves you like God does - as you are. Not all of them are like this, I can think of 2 pastor's wives I know personally who are zaftig and don't have any issues with being so. 

Gluttony may be a sin, but thats an entirely different kettle of fish. You can be skinny and be a glutton. The sin of gluttony is the one of substituting something (food) for God and spiritual nourishment. It would be far closer to being a drug addict, or alcoholic then simply a big eater. There's a world of difference between a food addict, who has any of the range of food disorders and harmed both physically and emotionally by their addiction or condition and someone who's simply fat and ok with it. If you eat 1 dozen donuts because you're miserable, and then you feel worse for doing it, feel ashamed, and then you repeat the cycle over and over trying to feel better - you have a problem. If you eat 1 dozen donuts because you darn well wanted to and you're ok with it when you're done well thats an entirely different thing. 

From a Christian perspective - anytime you regularly and habitually substitute something for God as a way to comfort and console you and to fill any emotional/spiritual needs you may have - that's a problem if not necessarily a "sin". Food, alcohol, prescription drugs, illegal drugs, weight loss programs, golf, sex - anything.


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## penguin (Mar 14, 2012)

I'd steer clear of any church that uses guilt and passive aggressive bullying techniques to get what they want. They clearly don't understand what it is they're meant to be doing, and are only interested in control.


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## imfree (Mar 14, 2012)

DarkHephaestus said:


> This topic depresses me greatly. Not only as a man who wishes to see greater size acceptance, but as a Christian as well. Lately I've been hearing so many stories about churches promoting so much un-Christ-like behavior, that I am actually quite ashamed to call myself a "Christian" in the now traditional sense. I'm starting to think that "Follower of Christ" is more accurate, as there are so many "Christian" groups that villianize and ostracize so many people and cultures, its insane.
> 
> Let me ask these "Thinner and Holier Than Thou" people: Did Jesus judge the appearance of his peers? Did he rebuke people because they sinned? No! Christ was at home amongst the sinners. His company was often prostitutes, tax-collectors, liars, and mortgage bankers (jk). His actions showed that He loved EVERYONE. Now if these congregations are going to criminalize something as silly as adipose, then I truly wonder if they even read the New Testament! If they are so quick to point out the fat speck on their friends' eyes, they are overlooking the plank in their own.
> 
> Each day, I shake my head at the stupidity of the world. I still love everybody, I just wish they'd all brighten up a bit!



I totally agree. I even think that churches are distracted from more important things when they give too much attention to appearance related issues.

Your post reminded me of this great Todd Agnew song, My Jesus.


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## joswitch (Mar 14, 2012)

Lizzie said:


> When I read this, a couple of things come to mind. One is the success of Christian-based programs like the Weigh Down workshop. The weight loss industry has definitely turned to religion as a marketing tool. And why not? What better way to sell a product than to convince the ultra-religious that they are not going to be pleasing to God if they don't buy it?
> 
> But going back to the OP's original point, I do think weight loss has become a religion. Even listening to dieters in their conversation, you can hear the cycle of sin-forgiveness that is present in so many religions. *"Oh, I've been so bad...I ate X".* "That's okay, you can start dieting again." And those who are successful are revered. "Did you hear about so-and-so? She lost 100 pounds!" "How did you do it? What's your secret?" Substitute religious phrases for the weight loss phrases and this wouldn't sound too out of place in a church.
> 
> P.S. Imfree, your signature always makes me want to blast Aerosmith at top volume.



Agree. I'm sick of hearing people use "I've been good/bad" in reference to what they eat, as though eating or not / weight has some kind of moral component. Aaaarrrrgh! So annoying. 

Also, I suspect it's a societally approved way of expressing infantile needs e.g. attention / approval seeking. 

Imagine a world where all the energy put into dieting went into creating / doing something truly amazing / useful for that attention and approval kick so obviously craved? We'd have world peace, jet packs and a colony on Mars by now.


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## joswitch (Mar 14, 2012)

Fat Brian said:


> When traditional Jesus-based salvation proves unsatisfactory people often turn to an alternative means to save their souls. Some people turn to very restrictive diets, believing in a *vegetable-based salvation,* while others turn to saving the earth or saving the animals or various other things. It seems to be about finding a way to feel superior to other people, that you are doing something more deserving of favor than someone else.



Bwahahahahahaaaaa!!  I cannot rep you.


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## LinathSuru (Mar 14, 2012)

CastingPearls said:


> ...That church had a program called Thin for Him which was dieting, exercise and being accountable to each other (read emotionally abusing under the guise of spiritual guidance). When they asked me if I was interested in joining, I politely declined and was soon ousted from another area I was involved in (volunteering in the nursery during services). I was considered too rebellious and not a good influence on children.



That really disturbs me. I know it happens all the time in all manner of places, but... 'Thin for Him'? May as well call it 'Christ's Fat-Shaming Club'. I was raised Lutheran, though not the 'strict' version of the denomination. My mother always made a point to stress that God loves ALL people. She might have whispered to me asking if she was as fat as someone else in the room, but it was always about her insecurity. God accepts us for all our faults and all our strengths. He loves all people, in all shapes, all sizes. 



CrystalDiorDoll said:


> ive been approached twice by the same woman at my church suggesting gastric bypass to me also one of the elders wives put a offensive lil comic strip on facebook the women in the ad was saying they were happy she was saying impossible cant be fat and happy and no man could love them im considering leaving that church tell me what do yall think i should do



I would bring it up with the pastor... Because to me it would be important to know what the spiritual leader felt about such things. If he seemed in agreement with the comments about fat people not being happy and not being worthy of love I would be gone in a heartbeat. A church looks to it's spiritual leader for guidance... And as a member of the 'flock' there you should ask him to address that kind of bias. It's quite likely he's not going to because he's human and may well share their views... But that's something you should know about the person who leads your community of faith. If he does share their views you need a healthier spiritual environment.

I haven't been going to church for years. I'm not sure I'd still count myself 'Christian'. I believe in the principles of Christianity that I was taught growing up, and I follow them. I believe in God. I just don't believe in religious organizations.. Or at least none in my area. Too many times I've gone to a religious congregation only to find the wrong messages. Literally, "Cast out all of your non-Christian friends and ten good, strong, Christian friends will come to replace them..."

Those were words from a youth pastor when I had just attended church for the first time in years at the age of fourteen or so. Those words broke my heart. That church.. The energy in it.. It was so positive, so uplifting.. The sense of community was wonderful.. And then that. Many of my friends aren't Christian. That's between them and their beliefs. I won't force my religion on anyone, nor will I abandon anyone for not sharing it. Ridiculous.

I cried over that service because I realized I couldn't put my faith there, in that church. I stopped going to services again, and kept my faith in my own home. At the end of the day... God knows what's in your heart. You don't need a pastor to speak to him.

Good luck with your situation, CrystalDiorDoll.


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## fritzi (Mar 14, 2012)

Reading through this thread reminds me why the Europeans are so smug about having managed to export all their Christian extremists to us in the US over the past few centuries .... 

Part of the problem though is that many self-proclaimed ministers, pastors, etc. lack even a basic theological education!
(I'm a history teacher, so that naturally really bothers me!)


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## Dr. Feelgood (Mar 14, 2012)

CastingPearls said:


> As a survivor (and escapee) of fundamentalism...



I can't help thinking of the lyrics from the old spiritual...

"If you get there before I do,
Just dig a hole so you can pull me through."

Congratulations on your successful emigration. :bow:


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## Keb (Mar 16, 2012)

My sister's theory is that food has largely taken the place that sex used to in terms of social approval--perhaps moreso in secular society than in religious groups, but I've yet to see any religious society that didn't reflect the social norms around it in some way. What she means is that while (in liberal/secular circles at least) it's rarely acceptable to criticize sexual behavior anymore, eating behaviors are entirely, as it were, on the table.


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## Fat Brian (Mar 16, 2012)

Keb said:


> My sister's theory is that food has largely taken the place that sex used to in terms of social approval--perhaps moreso in secular society than in religious groups, but I've yet to see any religious society that didn't reflect the social norms around it in some way. What she means is that while (in liberal/secular circles at least) it's rarely acceptable to criticize sexual behavior anymore, eating behaviors are entirely, as it were, on the table.



That makes sense, peoples innate need to feel superior to and judge others will fit itself into whatever social construct people choose to live in. In areas where religion is less prominent the need is expressed in criticizing whoever is on the margins of or disrupts the norms of the larger group.


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## AuntHen (Mar 16, 2012)

Azrael said:


> It's very much a "religious" thing.
> 
> Basically, being fat has become a moral issue over a health issue. The idea is that being fat means that someone "must" be lazy and glutonous. So, if someone is fat to the mainstream it's seen as being morally bankrupt and sinful (as gluttony and sloth are two of the supposed deadly sins).
> 
> To this end, we can understand how losing weight has become a religion. The thin are not "sinful" for their weight is supposedly a sign of their activity and self restraint (thus "holy"). While the "morally bankrupt" fatties are supposedly sinful because according to the usual shtick they are Lazy and glutonous.




yep, "church ladies" (in my experience) are notorious for their constant dieting and talking about dieting and telling fatties about diets... yet they bring the most nutrient lacking, processed foods to potlucks... go fig


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## MissAshley (Mar 18, 2012)

I think if people want to believe that for their own sake, they should be able to without judgement, but if they start forcing their views on others who don't want it, that is where I draw the line.


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## FA Punk (Mar 18, 2012)

If you look at it people like Meme Roth, Jillian Michaels, Richard Simmons, and Dr. Oz are looked upon by the weight loss nuts as gods so yes calling it a religion does make sense or should we say..*''CULT?!''*


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## imfree (Mar 18, 2012)

I think the difference between BBL, big but losing and BNL, big not losing changes many people's perspective on a number of things. Does anyone care to discuss? I posted the question here because I think this type of thinking is related to conscience, inner thinking, and, sometimes, religious thinking.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Mar 18, 2012)

imfree said:


> I think the difference between BBL, big but losing and BNL, big not losing changes many people's perspective on a number of things. Does anyone care to discuss?



Good question, Edgar. I suspect that, for many people, BBL = penitent sinner; BNL = unrepenting sinner. And although we are called upon to extend love and compassion to both, many people find it easier to love penitent sinners (who by their repentence are admitting that WE knew best all along) than those who challenge our assumptions by their way of life.


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## imfree (Mar 21, 2012)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Good question, Edgar. I suspect that, for many people, BBL = penitent sinner; BNL = unrepenting sinner. And although we are called upon to extend love and compassion to both, many people find it easier to love penitent sinners (who by their repentence are admitting that WE knew best all along) than those who challenge our assumptions by their way of life.



In addition to the above statements, and maybe even for those reasons, there seems to be a little contention between BBL and BNL people in DimmerLand.


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## Nenona (Apr 9, 2012)

There's several writings that were in early christianity that specifically talk about depriving oneself as 'holy'. There's also a line of coke in religion that lots of religious people snort--that basically makes them believe--that all outward problems, are signs of inward "sin"--breast cancer? from not having enough kids! STD? PUNISHMENT FOR HAVING SEX!

Religion does a lot of things--mainly connecting food to morality--saying that you're "good" for eating foods that are bland and empty of calories--and 'controlling' your 'sinful lust' for food or you know, just generally not enjoying anything on the planet--an early writer in Christianity was Saint Augustine--he stole pears as a child and then went on and on in his main book about how it was bad to eat--and later in his life purposefully starved himself because he thought that was what god wanted him to do.

Also connected in religion is the idea that beautiful people=rewarded by god and ugly people=punished by god. Even if that makes NO SENSE because the ideals of beauty are a sliding scale and really depend on the person doing the judgement, of course there's a general societal consensus of "what society thinks pretty is" and when you don't fit it, you're a freak and a sort of living representation of "all the sin in the world."

I wish I was better at explaining it but it can be broken down to this:
-They believe sin causes outward changes.
-One of those outward changes is to get fat
-They believe that the 'sin' we've commited is being unable to control ourselves and properly put our "love of the lord' ahead of everything else. You know, the whole "JOY" deal--Jesus first, Others Next, Yourself Last--clearly you're not putting yourself last!

For the record, I'm atheist, and spitballs in Sunday school are why I freaking hated church as a kid and later looked for answers in science.


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