# Happy Meals Ban in Santa Clara County, CA



## wrestlingguy (Apr 28, 2010)

From the LA Times website:



> Happy Meal toys and other promotions that come with high-calorie children's meals will soon be banned in parts of Santa Clara County unless the restaurants meet nutritional guidelines approved Tuesday by the county Board of Supervisors.
> 
> "This ordinance prevents restaurants from preying on children's' love of toys" to sell high-calorie, unhealthful food, said Supervisor Ken Yeager, who sponsored the measure. "This ordinance breaks the link between unhealthy food and prizes."
> 
> ...


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## Tau (Apr 28, 2010)

Why are people so afraid of letting parents be parents??? It's a parents job to monitor what their child eats, what kind of calories they take in, whether they get a happy meal or not. We're looking for schools for my niece to go to now - she's 6 and starts Grade 1 next year. At every school we're getting this crazy list of the things she's allowed to have in her lunchbox and incredibly stupid rules about what she's allowed to buy at tuckshop. Now I'm always hesitant about arguing this because I am a vast fatty and have been since i was like 4 but I strongly believe that it should be up to each child's parents to decide what their baby eats. Most people who have children love them and want the best for them. Perhaps some don't know what kind of foods are best for their little tots health and well being but that can be remedied by having nutrition classes for interested parents surely - not by being all prescriptive and psycho about what we let other people's children eat. Just annoys me no end.


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## LoveBHMS (Apr 28, 2010)

Tau said:


> Why are people so afraid of letting parents be parents??? It's a parents job to monitor what their child eats, what kind of calories they take in, whether they get a happy meal or not. We're looking for schools for my niece to go to now - she's 6 and starts Grade 1 next year. At every school we're getting this crazy list of the things she's allowed to have in her lunchbox and incredibly stupid rules about what she's allowed to buy at tuckshop. Now I'm always hesitant about arguing this because I am a vast fatty and have been since i was like 4 but I strongly believe that it should be up to each child's parents to decide what their baby eats. Most people who have children love them and want the best for them. Perhaps some don't know what kind of foods are best for their little tots health and well being but that can be remedied by having nutrition classes for interested parents surely - not by being all prescriptive and psycho about what we let other people's children eat. Just annoys me no end.



I agree that we should let parents be parents, however schools and other organizations should have some reasonable interest in contributing to kids' well being. We don't have sugared soft drinks in schools, nor do we have cigarette machines. i don't think many of these common sense regulations are any sort of an attack on fat people; there is no real social value in Happy Meals and i dont' think anyone's school experience is going to be negatively affected for a lack of cupcakes.

There is also reasonably a difference between what is done in public and private. Schools don't have vending machines that sell Coca Cola but of course parents are allowed to buy it for their children if they so choose. Some schools won't allow parents to provide junk food for school parties, but that does not mean they are prohibited from buying it and letting kids eat it in private. I know some parents allow kids to have a couple of sips of wine with dinner, but that does not mean they'd want them buying alcohol on their own or believe bars should serve young people.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Apr 28, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> We don't have sugared soft drinks in schools,
> 
> Schools don't have vending machines that sell Coca Cola .



Wow! I'm not sure where you live, but can I come live there too? A whole LOT of schools sell out to Coke or Pepsi: in exchange for promoting these 
drinks and insuring that school vending machines sell only their products, the schools get donations from the company and a percentage of the money from the machines. I remember in California a few years back one of the schools had a 'Coke day' when all the students were supposed to wear promotional t-shirts for Coca-Cola; one boy wore a Pepsi t-shirt and was suspended. And it isn't just the public schools that shill for Coke; the university where I teach has a similar agreement, and only Coca-Cola products can be served on campus.


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 28, 2010)

Yes, because it's the toys -- NOT THE PARENTS LETTING THEM EAT AT MCDONALDS -- that are allowing kids to eat high calorie food.

ohwait.


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## LoveBHMS (Apr 28, 2010)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Wow! I'm not sure where you live, but can I come live there too? A whole LOT of schools sell out to Coke or Pepsi: in exchange for promoting these
> drinks and insuring that school vending machines sell only their products, the schools get donations from the company and a percentage of the money from the machines. I remember in California a few years back one of the schools had a 'Coke day' when all the students were supposed to wear promotional t-shirts for Coca-Cola; one boy wore a Pepsi t-shirt and was suspended. And it isn't just the public schools that shill for Coke; the university where I teach has a similar agreement, and only Coca-Cola products can be served on campus.



In many school districts schools can sell certain products, but not full sugar soft drinks. For instance Coca Cola makes Dasani brand bottled water and that is sold in vending machines, but not the actual Coke soft drink. The vending machines may have logos or photographs of Coke bottles or cans, but not actually sell the product. i'm pretty sure they make Tropicana brand juices as well and those are sold in schools. At least in New England, the trade associations that lobby and do public relations for the soft drink industry are running ads touting the removal of full sugar/full calorie drinks from schools.


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## Tau (Apr 28, 2010)

We don't have vending machines in schools - well the schools I went to anyway. And most South African schools don't do cafeteria's at all - parents provided packed lunches and you sat outside in the sun and ate what you got - and that's what my niece will be getting. When we were in school we got tuck money once a week - enough for a chocolate or an ice-cream or a packet of chips. My parents controlled just about everything we put in our mouths - I would think that would be the same with children everywhere? I ate in one school cafeteria when I was 15 and they served things like couscous, veggies and mutton stew, toasted sandwhiches, sausages and mash and on Friday they'd do pizza or chicken burgers. Even then I found the food balanced and tasty.


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## ulli (Apr 28, 2010)

Its good idea but for another reason, who needs these low quality toys anyway, oil taken up, toy produced in china, imported, played with for a minute and then thrown away with batteries and everything. I think its a disgusting way to threat our planet and future generations like it was a dump..


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## willowmoon (Apr 28, 2010)

I was going to say that if the parent wants to, they can just buy a Happy Meals toy individually without having to buy the food that comes in a Happy Meal. If they want to buy something "healthier" at McDonald's for their child while they're there, that's up to that parent. Ultimately it's the parent's responsibility to decide what their child is going to eat. I just feel that this is a really bad idea -- I'm sure the originators of this ordinance have good intentions so that America's youth eat healthier, but I really doubt if this is the way to go.


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## HottiMegan (Apr 28, 2010)

So no happy meals but you can get burgers, fries, taco bell, pizza and all that junk at the school cafeteria. (I grew up in Santa Clara county) I wont even talk about the snack bar and all the really bad for you crap you can buy! (but these were jr high and high school)
lame.
I wonder if McDonalds and Burger King will send in their big lawyers to fight this. I know i'm not a typical mom but happy meals are a very rare treat for my son. And we get the cheeseburger without the meat and the apple pieces. If he wants the toys i just buy the toy.


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## LovelyLiz (Apr 28, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> In many school districts schools can sell certain products, but not full sugar soft drinks. For instance Coca Cola makes Dasani brand bottled water and that is sold in vending machines, but not the actual Coke soft drink. The vending machines may have logos or photographs of Coke bottles or cans, but not actually sell the product. i'm pretty sure they make Tropicana brand juices as well and those are sold in schools. At least in New England, the trade associations that lobby and do public relations for the soft drink industry are running ads touting the removal of full sugar/full calorie drinks from schools.



This is true. Though, at the public high school where I taught (here in L.A.) they took out the Coke machines only to replace them with Powerade machines. They followed the letter, but not necessarily the spirit of the law. Then a couple years later they had to take out those machines too, and now they can only sell bottled water to students in the cafeteria. I think that's the rule throughout the Los Angeles school district now.

But anyway, I agree with all the posters who say parental responsibility is really the primary thing. At the same time, I was just talking with some friends over dinner last night about the cereal we ate as kids. My mom didn't let me have "sugar cereals" so whenever we went to the cereal aisle I got to choose between Cheerios (not honey nut), Rice Crispies, and Corn flakes. And I still remember seeing all those colorful cartoon characters enticing me into their world of high fructose corn syrup with their bright colors and their free toys inside each box! It felt like such a deprivation to me. 

So I guess the thing is, even though my mom DID fulfill her parental responsibility to feed me more healthy foods (which didn't stop me from finding sneaky ways to eat sugar), the fact that I saw these unhealthy items being marketed in such a tantalizing way to my young brain still made them seem like the holy grail of foods. I do think marketing is powerful, and that commercials/ads really really affect kids' (and adults') brains in ways that we're not always 100% privy to. So the idea to stop aiming unhealthy food choices at kids by marketing directly to them does seem like a good thing (though it opens a whole other debate about social control and regulation that I am not sure how I feel about).


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## LoveBHMS (Apr 28, 2010)

> So I guess the thing is, even though my mom DID fulfill her parental responsibility to feed me more healthy foods (which didn't stop me from finding sneaky ways to eat sugar), the fact that I saw these unhealthy items being marketed in such a tantalizing way to my young brain still made them seem like the holy grail of foods. I do think marketing is powerful, and that commercials/ads really really affect kids' (and adults') brains in ways that we're not always 100% privy to. So the idea to stop aiming unhealthy food choices at kids by marketing directly to them does seem like a good thing (though it opens a whole other debate about social control and regulation that I am not sure how I feel about).



Numerous public policy debates have centered around companies' rights to market products compared with what is safe and/or appropriate for young people to see. Tobacco companies have been forced to not market to kids. Products seen as gateway products like flavored chewing tobacco or wine coolers have come under fire. Liquor can not be advertised during prime time television. None of those policies stop parents from educating children about alcohol and tobacco, and in fact should not give parents a false sense of security about childrens' ability to be aware of those products. I don't think junk food, sugar cereals, and fast food need to be treated any differently from tobacco or alcohol. Foods lacking nutritional value that are high in fat, sodium, and sugar are dangerous and can contribute to poor health. While they are not necessarily as dangerous as cigarettes, they are dangerous and there is no reason to allow those companies to market to kids. They can market to older folks who can in turn decide to feed those products to their children or not.


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## truebebeblue (Apr 29, 2010)

Yeah mixing food and happy I think is normal to an extent (special dinners to celebrate, birthday cake) being that we are humans. I also think that companies marketing directly to children in any way is sneaky and harmful.
If you have strong parents who say no or even just can't afford it,you still feel deprived and often resent your parent/sneak objects of desire.
Advertising is one of the main reasons I do not watch television and haven't for over 5 years. I think parents should limit their children's time with advertisers as little as possible there is no way for a parent to completely counteract the damaging messages sent to kids by pure volume alone during television viewing.


Kinda derailed! sorry



True


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## KHayes666 (Apr 29, 2010)

I said it once and I'll say it a thousand times, kids today aren't fat because of places like McDonalds, kids today are fat because they don't get any exercise and parents are too lazy to make them.

McDonalds and other fast food chains have been around for over 50 years so how are only today's generation of kids fat? Maybe its because children don't have to go outside anymore to socialize with others. Thanks to the wonders of the internet and online video games, kids don't have to leave the house to keep up with their schoolmates and the outside world.

This wasn't always the case, look no further than the 60's and 70's where there were barely any television to watch. There were no video games, no computers and nothing really to keep kids entertained unless you read books or MAD Magazine. You had to go outside to find your fun which is what parents these days apparently forgot to teach to their kids. Hell fast food was cheaper then than it is now, my father told me when he was much younger 2 dollars could get you a full course meal at McDonalds.

I'm probably a great example of how fast food isn't the primary cause of kids being fat. When I was a child I ate enough McDonalds and Burger King to kill a horse and I remained thin/built because I played a lot of sports and did a lot of outdoor recreation. I had a lot of neighborhood friends and we played our video games and ate our share of crap, but we also went outside and rode bikes, played wiffleball and occasionally ran around pretending to be various pop culture figures and superheros. Hell, this was the Super Soaker era and every summer would be spent running around drenching each other with the biggest, baddest gun you could afford. (This was back in 1993 when bringing water pistols to school wasn't just ok, it was ENCOURAGED) Actually now that I think about it, there was only one fat kid on our street and guess what, he was the only one that didn't go out and play with us. I didn't find out until after I moved away but he had a video game collection second to none and he spent most of his days indoors playing games.....16 years later the one kid on the street has turned into EVERY kid on the street.

Parents don't need to ban toys from McDonalds or soda machines in schools, they need to turn off the god damn X-Box, unplug the verizon wireless, limit the Direct TV and make their children go out and play. Maybe if parents weren't so damn lazy the childhood obesity "epidemic" wouldn't even be an issue


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 29, 2010)

After making 100 or so happy meals today at work I'm suddenly super in favor of this idea.


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 30, 2010)

HottiMegan said:


> So no happy meals but you can get burgers, fries, taco bell, pizza and all that junk at the school cafeteria. (I grew up in Santa Clara county) I wont even talk about the snack bar and all the really bad for you crap you can buy! (but these were jr high and high school)
> lame.
> I wonder if McDonalds and Burger King will send in their big lawyers to fight this. I know i'm not a typical mom but happy meals are a very rare treat for my son. And we get the cheeseburger without the meat and the apple pieces. If he wants the toys i just buy the toy.



I would think that their lawyers are already all over it. They do offer alternatives like apples and milk to replace fries and soda, so its not like they aren't trying to provide healthy choices. 

Ultimately its a parents responsibility to decide what food their child gets, healthy or not.


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 30, 2010)

mcbeth said:


> This is true. Though, at the public high school where I taught (here in L.A.) they took out the Coke machines only to replace them with Powerade machines. They followed the letter, but not necessarily the spirit of the law. Then a couple years later they had to take out those machines too, and now they can only sell bottled water to students in the cafeteria. I think that's the rule throughout the Los Angeles school district now.
> 
> But anyway, I agree with all the posters who say parental responsibility is really the primary thing. At the same time, I was just talking with some friends over dinner last night about the cereal we ate as kids. My mom didn't let me have "sugar cereals" so whenever we went to the cereal aisle I got to choose between Cheerios (not honey nut), Rice Crispies, and Corn flakes. And I still remember seeing all those colorful cartoon characters enticing me into their world of high fructose corn syrup with their bright colors and their free toys inside each box! It felt like such a deprivation to me.
> 
> So I guess the thing is, even though my mom DID fulfill her parental responsibility to feed me more healthy foods (which didn't stop me from finding sneaky ways to eat sugar), the fact that I saw these unhealthy items being marketed in such a tantalizing way to my young brain still made them seem like the holy grail of foods. I do think marketing is powerful, and that commercials/ads really really affect kids' (and adults') brains in ways that we're not always 100% privy to. So the idea to stop aiming unhealthy food choices at kids by marketing directly to them does seem like a good thing (though it opens a whole other debate about social control and regulation that I am not sure how I feel about).



Here's the thing, my kids can scream all they want about something they want, but if I don't want to buy it they just don't get it. Yes some things are marketed to kids but its the parents responsibility to look at that item and see if its really ok for their kid and to exercise moderation when they do buy it for their kid. 

Really, if more parents were parents instead of trying to be best buds with their kid this wouldn't be an issue. Is little Johnny asking for McDonalds every day? Say no. Is little Susie crying for the coco puffs in the store aisle? Say no. It really is that simple. I don't need a government parenting for me.


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 30, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> After making 100 or so happy meals today at work I'm suddenly super in favor of this idea.



I did my time at McDonalds and I remember when I had to work the back drive thru window I was expected to set up happy meals. Would have towers of staged happy meal boxes surrounding me by time my shift was done. It does get old!


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## LovelyLiz (Apr 30, 2010)

fatgirlflyin said:


> Here's the thing, my kids can scream all they want about something they want, but if I don't want to buy it they just don't get it. Yes some things are marketed to kids but its the parents responsibility to look at that item and see if its really ok for their kid and to exercise moderation when they do buy it for their kid.
> 
> Really, if more parents were parents instead of trying to be best buds with their kid this wouldn't be an issue. Is little Johnny asking for McDonalds every day? Say no. Is little Susie crying for the coco puffs in the store aisle? Say no. It really is that simple. I don't need a government parenting for me.



I agree. That wasn't my point. My mom did the same thing - I didn't get those unhealthy things. But it did build up this idea of "deprivation" in my mind as a child (not like extreme) but because advertisers build them up as the most fun foods ever, it does influence how the kids think about the foods. In the last line of my post though, I say that it doesn't mean based on the ways advertising adversely affects kids we can leap to the conclusion that advertising should be regulated - that's a separate question entirely.


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## superodalisque (Apr 30, 2010)

not a bad idea. kids are always targeted in ways in the media that oppose what parents really want for them. its a running battle. its cereal, fast food etc.... hour after hour after hour. they even advertise on school grounds now and have vending machines and kiosks. they are indoctrinating children behind parents backs whenever they can. i feel sorry for tired overworked parents, especially the single ones. not only do they have to battle their kids but overcome the temptation to buy something cheap and unhealthy. i think its good to send a message that we want better for our children, not because we want to guard them from the "evils" of obesity but because we want media to stop sticking its nose in where it doesn't belong when it comes to children. its a chance for parents to kick back after having big corporations have their way with advertising for a very long time. give a toy away with any purchase and really let the parents decide what to buy their children without all of the tantrums in the back seat. make things that sell, taste great and that are good for health. stop bribing children with toys to become addicted to fat, salt and corn syrup with no nutritional content and no real flavor. then maybe one day fat folks won't be as sickly as they are and will stop getting scapegoated as much for it. they can get fat on things that taste good and actually benefit their health for a change. maybe the FDA needs to stop mediating how many rat droppings, how many wood shavings and how much chalk filers are ok to put in our food and actually require people to put in real fruit vegetables, spices and actual beef? maybe we can stop subsidizing farmers who are suppliers to destroy an overage of crops that are bad for us and instead use the money to grow things that are good for us. then maybe fast food restaurants like MacDonalds can stop paying lobbyists to try to basically bribe for farm subsidies and use the savings to buy real whole foods to put in their products. MacDonalds sucks anyway. improve your crap or go the way of camels cigarettes and stop helping to make fat kids sickly instead of heavy healthy and robust.


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 30, 2010)

mcbeth said:


> I agree. That wasn't my point. My mom did the same thing - I didn't get those unhealthy things. But it did build up this idea of "deprivation" in my mind as a child (not like extreme) but because advertisers build them up as the most fun foods ever, it does influence how the kids think about the foods. In the last line of my post though, I say that it doesn't mean based on the ways advertising adversely affects kids we can leap to the conclusion that advertising should be regulated - that's a separate question entirely.



I guess it just goes to show how different people can view different things. I didn't get happy meals or sugary cereal growing up. We never had soda and had milk with dinner, but I never felt deprived. That's just how my family was. 

I just think its sad that people are blaming fast food companies for fat children.


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## superodalisque (Apr 30, 2010)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Wow! I'm not sure where you live, but can I come live there too? A whole LOT of schools sell out to Coke or Pepsi: in exchange for promoting these
> drinks and insuring that school vending machines sell only their products, the schools get donations from the company and a percentage of the money from the machines. I remember in California a few years back one of the schools had a 'Coke day' when all the students were supposed to wear promotional t-shirts for Coca-Cola; one boy wore a Pepsi t-shirt and was suspended. And it isn't just the public schools that shill for Coke; the university where I teach has a similar agreement, and only Coca-Cola products can be served on campus.



here too. and also vending machines with candy and chips. there are also schools that have fast food kiosks.


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## superodalisque (Apr 30, 2010)

mcbeth said:


> I agree. That wasn't my point. My mom did the same thing - I didn't get those unhealthy things. But it did build up this idea of "deprivation" in my mind as a child (not like extreme) but because advertisers build them up as the most fun foods ever, it does influence how the kids think about the foods. In the last line of my post though, I say that it doesn't mean based on the ways advertising adversely affects kids we can leap to the conclusion that advertising should be regulated - that's a separate question entirely.



thats a great point. advertising does work on the basis of deprivation. its affected us all as adults and we know how. maybe it is a good idea to put the breaks on all of those psychological mind games with our children so that they can be happy without all of the empty stuff. maybe they'll start focusing more on how good the food is than the cheap plastic toys they get bribed to overlook the blandness with that they buy from china for 1/10th of a cent. you know, an entire happy meal probably only costs maybe 10 cents to produce with targeted farm subsidies and quantities of scale. maybe 50 cents would actually make them some quality fast food that they'd love that won't contribute to the rise in diabetes and high blood pressure of children of all sizes and they could still have a toy no matter what they chose to eat.


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## superodalisque (Apr 30, 2010)

i like Ron English's take on the issue: 

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## superodalisque (Apr 30, 2010)

ulli said:


> Its good idea but for another reason, who needs these low quality toys anyway, oil taken up, toy produced in china, imported, played with for a minute and then thrown away with batteries and everything. I think its a disgusting way to threat our planet and future generations like it was a dump..



yep, and ourselves. i'm glad somebody is putting their foot down and parents are joining together to say no as a group so that food producing corporations will take notice that people do care what goes into their child's body. numbers are more likely to make them do something.


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## thatgirl08 (May 1, 2010)

fatgirlflyin said:


> I did my time at McDonalds and I remember when I had to work the back drive thru window I was expected to set up happy meals. Would have towers of staged happy meal boxes surrounding me by time my shift was done. It does get old!



haha yeah they still do it that way.. working at the back window is the worsttt.


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## msbard90 (May 1, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> After making 100 or so happy meals today at work I'm suddenly super in favor of this idea.



Lol aren't they the worst?
Especially when they want you to show them EVERY toy that you have and even make you go in back looking for it? Happy meals can be nightmares to make!


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## Davastav (May 1, 2010)

Excuse me people but there is only one real issue here and that is allowing the government to have more authority on how we run our daily lives...its a dangerous precedent that is being repeated over and over under the guise of the general health and well being of the population..If this was like drugs, cigarettes and alcohol there is are scientific cases to be made against marketing these items to children...But why dont we simply trust parents to say no to their kids if they want a happy meal with a toy...Does it have to be banned...Its food fascism!!!!


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## Lamia (May 2, 2010)

I think the fast food places should offer alternatives, but that parents should be able to choose what the kid eats. 

When I was in school there were no vending machines or soda machines. We got milk provided at lunch and a milk at recess. This was in the late 70s and early 80s K-8. I think High School they had a soda machine. Our school lunches were often made from scratch. Homemade hot rolls THE best. They just auctioned off secret recipe for Lucille's hot rolls for charity. 

My favorite school topic listed in my baby book as noted by my mother was LUNCH. 

Wow I miss those school lunches :eat2:


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## thatgirl08 (May 2, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> Lol aren't they the worst?
> Especially when they want you to show them EVERY toy that you have and even make you go in back looking for it? Happy meals can be nightmares to make!



ughhh, yes! The one I work at has a play place so the children come in DROVES so that's basically the story of my life at work.


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## KittyKitten (May 2, 2010)

Erase post


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## KittyKitten (May 2, 2010)

Great post, Tau. And I may add, regulating cigarettes and alcohol is fine (you don't need those things to live), but food should not be regulated. Food is a source of nourishment, we all have to eat to live right? You can't regulate what someone wants to eat. I am also getting so damn sick of the government trying to take the place of parents, too. 

Every time you hear about these crazy NANNY laws it's always in California! What's up with that state? Don't look at me that way ya'll, that state has some interesting laws.


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## msbard90 (May 2, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> ughhh, yes! The one I work at has a play place so the children come in DROVES so that's basically the story of my life at work.



LOL!! We have this place called giamatti field where its like hardcore little league. Every summer and fall, little league teams from all over the northeast play their big games there, which basically means bus-fulls of kids come in weekly for their happy meals (all at once, usually....  ). I wonder what would happen to our mc donald's summer sales if we no longer offered happy meals to these kids. We'd lose over 100 customers a week in the summer alone just from the little league.


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## superodalisque (May 2, 2010)

Davastav said:


> Excuse me people but there is only one real issue here and that is allowing the government to have more authority on how we run our daily lives...its a dangerous precedent that is being repeated over and over under the guise of the general health and well being of the population..If this was like drugs, cigarettes and alcohol there is are scientific cases to be made against marketing these items to children...But why dont we simply trust parents to say no to their kids if they want a happy meal with a toy...Does it have to be banned...Its food fascism!!!!



how is it food fascism if a community composed of a group of parents have decided together that they don't want corporations targeting their children with items they don't find appropriate? who said parents don't have the right to create power against corporate interests by forming powerful groups? 

also nobody is banning anything. kids can still have Macdonalds, parents can still buy it. parents just don't want the extra pressure of cheap toys influencing what their children want in the first place.

i really can't understand all of the knee jerk negativism when it comes to children having access or being encouraged to eat healthier foods. especially in our community where a lot of people wished they had been exposed to healthier items as a fat child that would have made their lives as fat children and adults a lot more enjoyable. also maybe if as fat children more kids are exposed to a healthy diet the stereotype of a unhealthy fat person might not hold as much water since fewer fat people would probably be in bad health. i mean , if you spend all of your childhood eating things with bovine hormones and so many preservatives that it can stay fresh for ten years without refrigeration -- no wonder many of us are sickly. whats wrong with children having strawberry shortcake with real cream and strawberries? it tastes good. and it won't make you sick. you don't have to offer a child a toy for him to eat it either. why are we fighting to protect the rights of corporations to advertise horrible alternatives to children that don't even taste as good. i think doing that has it backwards.


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## msbard90 (May 2, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i really can't understand all of the knee jerk negativism when it comes to children having access or being encouraged to eat healthier foods. especially in our community where a lot of people wished they had been exposed to healthier items as a fat child that would have made their lives as fat children and adults a lot more enjoyable. also maybe if as fat children more kids are exposed to a healthy diet the stereotype of a unhealthy fat person might not hold as much water since fewer fat people would probably be in bad health. i mean , if you spend all of your childhood eating things with bovine hormones and so many preservatives that it can stay fresh for ten years without refrigeration -- no wonder many of us are sickly. whats wrong with children having strawberry shortcake with real cream and strawberries? it tastes good. and it won't make you sick. you don't have to offer a child a toy for him to eat it either. why are we fighting to protect the rights of corporations to advertise horrible alternatives to children that don't even taste as good. i think doing that has it backwards.



I agree completely! Well said! in my opinion just because the SA community is supportive of obesity doesn't mean its also supportive of unhealthy eating. Of course as a parent, it is easy to offer our kids fast food- I do it when I'm in a hurry. But it is also important to learn that eating isn't something that needs to be rewarded- WITH A TOY! My personal stance is that I find that kids are much more willing to eat and are satisfied with the end product if they had a hand in making it. I can see where parents are coming from with this. From working at McDonald's I know that kids will come in and eat a happy meal JUST to get the toy.


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## thatgirl08 (May 2, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> LOL!! We have this place called giamatti field where its like hardcore little league. Every summer and fall, little league teams from all over the northeast play their big games there, which basically means bus-fulls of kids come in weekly for their happy meals (all at once, usually....  ). I wonder what would happen to our mc donald's summer sales if we no longer offered happy meals to these kids. We'd lose over 100 customers a week in the summer alone just from the little league.



oh wow, that can't be fun at all! haha


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## TabithaJames (May 3, 2010)

I wish they would stop putting those little dang toys in the food anyways...thats all my kids want is the toy. Won't eat the food lol


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## CastingPearls (May 3, 2010)

In all the areas I've lived and worked the meals were available without the toy and the toy was available for purchase alone (I like a lot of the toys especially the collectibles). I see everyone's point about it being all about marketing, greed, etc. but then any marketing campaign could just as easily be targeted because that's the point--you buy our product-you reap the benefits (reward, instant gratification)--we make a profit.


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## stldpn (May 3, 2010)

I've wondered recently. Why are there so few places that offer good food choices for people on the run? You can't even get a simple fresh sandwich anymore in a drive thru. Let alone a burger or chicken sandwich with a healthy slice of tomato on it. High calorie meals don't bother me nearly as much as the fact that the meal comes standard consisting entirely of overly processed junk.


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## msbard90 (May 3, 2010)

stldpn said:


> I've wondered recently. Why are there so few places that offer good food choices for people on the run? You can't even get a simple fresh sandwich anymore in a drive thru. Let alone a burger or chicken sandwich with a healthy slice of tomato on it. High calorie meals don't bother me nearly as much as the fact that the meal comes standard consisting entirely of overly processed junk.



I know that up in CT, fast food places are not serving tomatoes unless they are requested at the moment because of the funky winter in FL. We have a subway drive thru (maybe a couple of them) in the state. We have a lot of pizza shops around that will deliver "healthy" grinders and salads to your home, work, wherever. There are healthy options, a lot of them. Even your run of the mill fast food places now have healthier options, like mcdonald's grilled salads, dunkin donut's egg white flatbread sandwiches, subways subs with 6 grams of fat or less, taco bells under 500 calorie fresco menu.... etc. There are a lot of "healthy" (so to speak...) fast food choices, surprisingly.


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## exile in thighville (May 3, 2010)

i'm fine with this law


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## Vespertine (May 3, 2010)

TabithaJames said:


> I wish they would stop putting those little dang toys in the food anyways...thats all my kids want is the toy. Won't eat the food lol



I was the exact same way as a kid, and it drove my mom nuts


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## thatgirl08 (May 3, 2010)

Some of the fastfood places are the same way with the tomato up here too.. I know all the Wendy's in Rochester are that way. The McDonalds I work at right now is only charging for tomato if it doesn't normally come on the sandwich.. they used to not charge at all but the whole shortage thing. It's only like 30 cents though. 

I think people don't take the time to really read the nutrition facts from fastfood places. Most of it is junk but every place has come up with healthier options and some truly aren't that bad. Burger King and McDonalds both offer apple slices with low-fat carmel dip.. obviously you could skip on the dip (McDonald's dip is mad nasty anyway.. BK's is pretty good though) and just eat the apples. McDonalds also has the snack size fruit and walnut salad with yogurt, walnuts, apples and grapes. It's like $2. Plus now McDonalds has a side salad and three different meal size salads.. even with grilled chicken on them they're all about 300 calories plus about 100 cals for the dressing. The salads are made fresh everyday. 400 calories isn't bad at all for eating lunch at a fast food place.. and the salads are great, and pretty filling too.. you get an entire chicken breast on them. Anyway my whole point is that you aren't stuck eating a Big Mac or a Whopper.. there are options, you just have to read the nutrition facts.. most chains have some nutrition facts available in the store and all have it online so look it up and be prepared next time you need to eat out!


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## Nutty (May 3, 2010)

Anyone else hungry from all this happy meal talk? :eat2:


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## stldpn (May 3, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> I know that up in CT, fast food places are not serving tomatoes unless they are requested at the moment because of the funky winter in FL. We have a subway drive thru (maybe a couple of them) in the state. We have a lot of pizza shops around that will deliver "healthy" grinders and salads to your home, work, wherever. There are healthy options, a lot of them. Even your run of the mill fast food places now have healthier options, like mcdonald's grilled salads, dunkin donut's egg white flatbread sandwiches, subways subs with 6 grams of fat or less, taco bells under 500 calorie fresco menu.... etc. There are a lot of "healthy" (so to speak...) fast food choices, surprisingly.



I'm not sure about you but the sodium intake required to eat anything at Mcdonald's (including that salad which is ballparked at 230 calories and 830mg of sodium) is beyond me and the dunkin donuts sandwich is a close second with 700mg and 20mg of straight cholesterol. Your average subway 6inch turkey sub rolls in at 280 calories with 1000mg of sodium and 20mg cholesterol. By contrast your average 4oz of homemade turkey breast on rye. light mayo, 1 slice 2% cheese, and two slices of beefsteak tomato is a little heftier at 300 calories but has less than 250 mg of sodium and 10 mg of cholesterol. The proteins in it are leaner, and better than anything available to you at subway.

I'm not generally an alarmist but if you think that carry out is healthy you might pick up a copy of "The Omnivore's Dilemma" I promise it's much less a discussion about how to lose weight and more of a questioning what we put in our body. For example it provides this discussion about our beloved mcnugget.


> The ingredients listed in the flyer suggest a lot of thought goes into a nugget, that and a lot of corn. Of the thirty-eight ingredients it takes to make a McNugget, I counted thirteen that can be derived from corn: the corn-fed chicken itself; modified cornstarch (to bind the pulverized chicken meat); mono-, tri-, and diglycerides (emulsifiers, which keep the fats and water from separating); dextrose; lecithin (another emulsifier); chicken broth (to restore some of the flavor that processing leeches out); yellow corn flour and more modified cornstarch (for the batter); cornstarch (a filler); vegetable shortening; partially hydrogenated corn oil; and citric acid as a preservative. A couple of other plants take part in the nugget: There's some wheat in the batter, and on any given day the hydrogenated oil could come from soybeans, canola, or cotton rather than corn, depending on the market price and availability.
> According to the handout, McNuggets also contain several completely synthetic ingredients, quasiedible substances that ultimately come not from a corn or soybean field but form a petroleum refinery or chemical plant. These chemicals are what make modern processed food possible, by keeping the organic materials in them from going bad or looking strange after months in the freezer or on the road. Listed first are the "leavening agents": sodium aluminum phosphate, mono-calcium phosphate, sodium acid pyrophosphate, and calcium lactate. These are antioxidants added to keep the various animal and vegetable fats involved in a nugget from turning rancid. Then there are "anti-foaming agents" like dimethylpolysiloxene, added to the cooking oil to keep the starches from binding to air molecules, so as to produce foam during the fry. The problem is evidently grave enough to warrant adding a toxic chemical to the food: According to the Handbook of Food Additives, dimethylpolysiloxene is a suspected carcinogen and an established mutagen, tumorigen, and reproductive effector; it's also flammable. But perhaps the most alarming ingredient in a Chicken McNugget is tertiary butylhydroquinone, or TBHQ, an antioxidant derived from petroleum that is either sprayed directly on the nugget or the inside of the box it comes in to "help preserve freshness." According to A Consumer's Dictionary of Food Additives, TBHQ is a form of butane (i.e. lighter fluid) the FDA allows processors to use sparingly in our food: It can comprise no more than 0.02 percent of the oil in a nugget. Which is probably just as well, considering that ingesting a single gram of TBHQ can cause "nausea, vomiting, ringing in the ears, delirium, a sense of suffocation, and collapse." Ingesting five grams of TBHQ can kill.



We get into the habit of thinking low cal things are healthy, anything that has 1000mg of Sodium is not healthy.


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## stldpn (May 3, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> Some of the fastfood places are the same way with the tomato up here too.. I know all the Wendy's in Rochester are that way. The McDonalds I work at right now is only charging for tomato if it doesn't normally come on the sandwich.. they used to not charge at all but the whole shortage thing. It's only like 30 cents though.



I actually walked in and got a refund this past week at wendy's I know they don't want to "waste" the tomato but if I tell you I want a chicken sand and that sandwich has a picture on your menu that includes a fucking tomato I will be epic pissed about not getting my mater. I'd rather they raise the price on the sandwich, because making me ask for the tomato as if it's not standard is a shitty way to do business.


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## thatgirl08 (May 3, 2010)

Clearly 1000mg is not the best choice in the entire world but you can have like 2000 a day.. so eat less the other two meals. If you have to eat out you're still better off eating a salad with 1000mg of sodium than just eating a large Big Mac meal. There's a reason fast food is terrible for you.. because it's all shipped from other places, its cheap, and its fast.. if you want a nice burger cooked to perfection with fresh veggies on it, then you can't have it in 90 seconds or less. Super fast & cheap don't mesh well with super good for you. It's all about trade offs.


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## thatgirl08 (May 3, 2010)

stldpn said:


> I actually walked in and got a refund this past week at wendy's I know they don't want to "waste" the tomato but if I tell you I want a chicken sand and that sandwich has a picture on your menu that includes a fucking tomato I will be epic pissed about not getting my mater. I'd rather they raise the price on the sandwich, because making me ask for the tomato as if it's not standard is a shitty way to do business.



Yeah, I agree.. or at least they should say, just so you know that sandwich no longer comes with a tomato on it.. or put up signs or something.


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## stldpn (May 3, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> Clearly 1000mg is not the best choice in the entire world but you can have like 2000 a day.. so eat less the other two meals. If you have to eat out you're still better off eating a salad with 1000mg of chicken than just eating a large Big Mac meal. There's a reason fast food is terrible for you.. because it's all shipped from other places, its cheap, and its fast.. if you want a nice burger cooked to perfection with fresh veggies on it, then you can't have it in 90 seconds or less. Super fast & cheap don't mesh well with super good for you. It's all about trade offs.



I'm lucky enough that I can honestly say I care less about the cheap and more about the good. Because of my current circumstances I have found myself spending way too much time (2-3 times a week) eating out. The fact that there's no such thing as a "fresh" chicken parm or meatball sub available to me anymore pisses me off. My blood sugar and pressure have been an issue for the first time in five years as a result of the excessive salt and sugar. And that's my complaint, I do believe there would be a market for food that has never spent time in a vacuum sealed bag. So why isn't anybody feeding that need?


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## stldpn (May 3, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> Yeah, I agree.. or at least they should say, just so you know that sandwich no longer comes with a tomato on it.. or put up signs or something.



They had a sign on the counter, which I dutifully pointed out that I could not see while I was ordering in the drive thru. So really, I wonder why it's such a big deal to ask me if I'm sure I want tomato, and explain why if I ask why...


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## thatgirl08 (May 4, 2010)

stldpn said:


> I'm lucky enough that I can honestly say I care less about the cheap and more about the good. Because of my current circumstances I have found myself spending way too much time (2-3 times a week) eating out. The fact that there's no such thing as a "fresh" chicken parm or meatball sub available to me anymore pisses me off. My blood sugar and pressure have been an issue for the first time in five years as a result of the excessive salt and sugar. And that's my complaint, I do believe there would be a market for food that has never spent time in a vacuum sealed bag. So why isn't anybody feeding that need?



Yeah, I get what you're saying. Have you tried talking to local pizza places that aren't chains? A lot of the ones around here have fresh food. There's also a few Italian delis and regular restaurants where you can get fresh food made to pick-up. I mean, that's if you're willing to wait 20 minutes for something. When you start talking actual fast food.. like going through a drive thru, it's just not feasible to have non prepackaged or organic or cooked to order food.


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## stldpn (May 4, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> Yeah, I get what you're saying. Have you tried talking to local pizza places that aren't chains? A lot of the ones around here have fresh food. There's also a few Italian delis and regular restaurants where you can get fresh food made to pick-up. I mean, that's if you're willing to wait 20 minutes for something. When you start talking actual fast food.. like going through a drive thru, it's just not feasible to have non prepackaged or organic or cooked to order food.



Even the local pizza spots use canned sauce. And if you're diabetic you know how crappy that stuff really is. Shitty to say but this is one of a million reasons why I sometimes think it would be nice to be married.


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## thatgirl08 (May 4, 2010)

stldpn said:


> Shitty to say but this is one of a million reasons why I sometimes think it would be nice to be married.



Yeah, get them bitches in the kitchen.


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## LoveBHMS (May 4, 2010)

stldpn said:


> Even the local pizza spots use canned sauce. And if you're diabetic you know how crappy that stuff really is. Shitty to say but this is one of a million reasons why I sometimes think it would be nice to be married.



Or you could learn to cook and take responsibility for your own health.


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## msbard90 (May 4, 2010)

stldpn said:


> I'm not sure about you but the sodium intake required to eat anything at Mcdonald's (including that salad which is ballparked at 230 calories and 830mg of sodium) is beyond me and the dunkin donuts sandwich is a close second with 700mg and 20mg of straight cholesterol. Your average subway 6inch turkey sub rolls in at 280 calories with 1000mg of sodium and 20mg cholesterol. By contrast your average 4oz of homemade turkey breast on rye. light mayo, 1 slice 2% cheese, and two slices of beefsteak tomato is a little heftier at 300 calories but has less than 250 mg of sodium and 10 mg of cholesterol. The proteins in it are leaner, and better than anything available to you at subway.
> 
> I'm not generally an alarmist but if you think that carry out is healthy you might pick up a copy of "The Omnivore's Dilemma" I promise it's much less a discussion about how to lose weight and more of a questioning what we put in our body. For example it provides this discussion about our beloved mcnugget.
> 
> ...



Ummmm..... just fyi since you were mentioning "drive thru", usually that food has to cook fast, and hold for a long time. So, if you truly want something healthy, then maybe you should be healthy enough to leave your car and walk in a store and buy it.


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## msbard90 (May 4, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> Yeah, get them bitches in the kitchen.



LMAO!!! You're so funny!


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## thatgirl08 (May 4, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> Or you could learn to cook and take responsibility for your own health.





msbard90 said:


> Ummmm..... just fyi since you were mentioning "drive thru", usually that food has to cook fast, and hold for a long time. So, if you truly want something healthy, then maybe you should be healthy enough to leave your car and walk in a store and buy it.



Yeah, these girls said what I wanted to say but nicer.


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## msbard90 (May 4, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> Yeah, these girls said what I wanted to say but nicer.



I thought I was being pretty mean there..... lol at least I have some reassurance that I wasn't!


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## LoveBHMS (May 4, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> I thought I was being pretty mean there..... lol at least I have some reassurance that I wasn't!



Yeah but nobody _rocks_ the mean like thatgirl08.

<3


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## msbard90 (May 4, 2010)

Oh I should have known that! :doh: Thank you for enlightening me LOL 

anyways... back to happy meal talk....


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## Paquito (May 4, 2010)

I basically skipped over the entire Happy Meal thing.

Mighty Kid's Meal ftw.


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## LoveBHMS (May 4, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> Oh I should have known that! :doh: Thank you for enlightening me LOL
> 
> anyways... back to happy meal talk....



First can we laugh at the notion of somebody complaining about the lack of a _healthy_ version of a chicken parm or meatball sub?


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## msbard90 (May 4, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> First can we laugh at the notion of somebody complaining about the lack of a _healthy_ version of a chicken parm or meatball sub?



or the lack of healthy DRIVE THRU food! Since walking to get food is so "unhealthy"...


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## Fuzzy (May 4, 2010)

*The board, whose jurisdiction extends only to the unincorporated parts of the county, including much of Silicon Valley,...*

This is really much ado about nothing. This only affects businesses that the county board has jurisdiction over. The business that exists outside this jurisdiction, will continue to sell their product, business as usual, only now, they will get the business of those who decide to take their business to them. 

Business Outside 1, Business Inside 0.


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## squeezablysoft (May 4, 2010)

I told a friend about this the other day and she said "Why are they outlawing the toys?" I said "They think the toys are making kids fat". She said "Well, they should tell the kids to stop eating them then!" LOL


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## thatgirl08 (May 4, 2010)

The most ridiculous part of all of this is the fact that children don't own cars. They don't have money. They can't walk in and buy a Happy Meal. Someone is bringing them to McDonalds and purchasing the Happy Meal for them. Maybe parents need to learn to say no, you can't have that. I guarantee that even if the toys are gone parents will buy their kids fast food still.


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## Larry G (May 4, 2010)

stldpn said:


> Even the local pizza spots use canned sauce. And if you're diabetic you know how crappy that stuff really is. Shitty to say but this is one of a million reasons why I sometimes think it would be nice to be married.



Dude, I'm a guy and cook and bake for myself, I enjoy it. It's part of why I got so fat, haha.


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## Davastav (May 4, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> how is it food fascism if a community composed of a group of parents have decided together that they don't want corporations targeting their children with items they don't find appropriate? who said parents don't have the right to create power against corporate interests by forming powerful groups?
> 
> also nobody is banning anything. kids can still have Macdonalds, parents can still buy it. parents just don't want the extra pressure of cheap toys influencing what their children want in the first place.
> 
> you don't have to offer a child a toy for him to eat it either. why are we fighting to protect the rights of corporations to advertise horrible alternatives to children that don't even taste as good. i think doing that has it backwards.



You are underscoring my point here - who exactly are these parent groups and what interests do they represent exactly?...Most parents want the basic right to simply choose what foods to buy in the supermarket and what fast foods to buy for their children - happy meals that are inclusive of toy or not. This includes healthy and not so healthy products. But it should be right of the individual citizen and not some public interest group that has the audacity to pressure businesses without even proposing legislation of any kind. This is not about fighting for corporate rights to market unhealthy food products but about the power of a small group of radical individuals who are imposing their own interpretation of what kind of lifestyle we should all be living and what food and beverage products can and cannot be sold to children.


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## TraciJo67 (May 4, 2010)

stldpn said:


> I've wondered recently. Why are there so few places that offer good food choices for people on the run? You can't even get a simple fresh sandwich anymore in a drive thru. Let alone a burger or chicken sandwich with a healthy slice of tomato on it. High calorie meals don't bother me nearly as much as the fact that the meal comes standard consisting entirely of overly processed junk.


 
Expecting fresh, quality, or even tasty from ... a fast food restaurant? 

EXPECTING it? Well, aren't you the entitled one. Oops. Entitled. Capital 'E'.


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## Davastav (May 4, 2010)

TraciJo67 said:


> Expecting fresh, quality, or even tasty from ... a fast food restaurant?
> 
> EXPECTING it? Well, aren't you the entitled one. Oops. Entitled. Capital 'E'.



Agreed - Fast Food in general is pretty bad despite their attempts at offering healthy alternatives. Honestly if I'm going to McDonald's for example I am most probably not going near their salads anyway...


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## thatgirl08 (May 4, 2010)

The salads are actually pretty popular around here.. we sell about 50 of them in an average 8 hour shift. That's pretty good considering they're one of the most expensive things on the menu. I personally think the salads are yummy, but to each their own.


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## CastingPearls (May 4, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> First can we laugh at the notion of somebody complaining about the lack of a _healthy_ version of a chicken parm or meatball sub?


There are very healthy versions of those meals but you do have to make them yourself and even if time were an issue one could spend a day cooking and have enough meals for a week or more depending on tastes and freezability.

AND Taco Bell for one has a new line called fresca that is quite good and available through the drive-thru.

There's an awesome series of books called EAT THIS NOT THAT that offer excellent alternatives when you must eat out or hit the drive-thru. There's about four or five versions and visually they're foodee porn with lots of nutritional info.


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## AshleyEileen (May 4, 2010)

stldpn said:


> I actually walked in and got a refund this past week at wendy's I know they don't want to "waste" the tomato but if I tell you I want a chicken sand and that sandwich has a picture on your menu that includes a fucking tomato I will be epic pissed about not getting my mater. I'd rather they raise the price on the sandwich, because making me ask for the tomato as if it's not standard is a shitty way to do business.



I agree with you, but all of the Wendy's around here have signs inside, on the drive thru menu, and one on each drive thru window.


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## CastingPearls (May 4, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> The salads are actually pretty popular around here.. we sell about 50 of them in an average 8 hour shift. That's pretty good considering they're one of the most expensive things on the menu. I personally think the salads are yummy, but to each their own.


When on the run, I love the salads but the dressings (It's impossible for me to eat a plain salad) are hidden killers. Again--fat, carbs, sodium. Even the low-fat/low cal viniagrettes are very high in sodium. There are options but you have to choose wisely and be as informed as possible.


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## msbard90 (May 4, 2010)

The thing that surprised me most about mc'ds salads and parfaits is that they are actual food. The salad is honest to goodness salad greens like you'd buy at the grocery store and the fruit parfaits are dannon (I'm pretty sure its dannon... if not its a popular brand) low fat vanilla yogurt and your run of the mill frozen fruit. The salad dressing is the same newmans own you'd buy at the store, and if thats too fatty for you, you can always eat a dry salad. And if you get a egg mcmuffin, the egg is an actual egg you have to crack and fry up. Its no more processed than any other place pople dine at- and hey even my sisters doctor recommended eating a double cheeseburger every once and again to keep her iron up. Aparently the iron in a double cheeseburger outweighs the calories/sodium. Not saying to eat 02983402938409384029843 of them, but don't knock it completely.


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## msbard90 (May 4, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> When on the run, I love the salads but the dressings (It's impossible for me to eat a plain salad) are hidden killers. Again--fat, carbs, sodium. Even the low-fat/low cal viniagrettes are very high in sodium. There are options but you have to choose wisely and be as informed as possible.



LOL my aunt had the same issue. She always kept a small bottle of salad dressing with her if she knew she was going out and would put her own dressing on the salad.


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## CastingPearls (May 4, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> The thing that surprised me most about mc'ds salads and parfaits is that they are actual food. The salad is honest to goodness salad greens like you'd buy at the grocery store and the fruit parfaits are dannon (I'm pretty sure its dannon... if not its a popular brand) low fat vanilla yogurt and your run of the mill frozen fruit. The salad dressing is the same newmans own you'd buy at the store, and if thats too fatty for you, you can always eat a dry salad. And if you get a egg mcmuffin, the egg is an actual egg you have to crack and fry up. Its no more processed than any other place pople dine at- and hey even my sisters doctor recommended eating a double cheeseburger every once and again to keep her iron up. Aparently the iron in a double cheeseburger outweighs the calories/sodium. Not saying to eat 02983402938409384029843 of them, but don't knock it completely.


I love their yogurt parfaits and they're on a lot of dollar menus.


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## CastingPearls (May 4, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> LOL my aunt had the same issue. She always kept a small bottle of salad dressing with her if she knew she was going out and would put her own dressing on the salad.


Yup---I save packets of healthier stuff or use half of what I get. And in a pinch, straight balsamic vinegar works too.


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## Nutty (May 4, 2010)

I used to just order the Big Mac value meal, but now I love to order their Angus cheddar bacon burger combo :eat2::eat2:


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## Tracyarts (May 4, 2010)

" First can we laugh at the notion of somebody complaining about the lack of a healthy version of a chicken parm or meatball sub? "

Oh hell yes.

Because you can't make a low fat, low sodium, low sugar, low whatever... version of certain foods without using a LOT of fake stuff. Which isn't really healthy either.

Tracy


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## Nutty (May 4, 2010)

Tracyarts said:


> " First can we laugh at the notion of somebody complaining about the lack of a healthy version of a chicken parm or meatball sub? "
> 
> Oh hell yes.
> 
> ...



Kudos! I agree!


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## stldpn (May 4, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> Yeah, get them bitches in the kitchen.



Well, yes and no. Theoretically if I had a wife the chances of me eating out by myself every night would be much less. I come home around ten each night. Breakfast and lunch are rarely an issue. Is it really so ridiculous to hope to come home to leftovers or a sandwich two or three times a week? Sweet jesus I feel badly for the men in your life if you consider that an extreme sacrifice.


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## CastingPearls (May 4, 2010)

stldpn said:


> Well, yes and no. Theoretically if I had a wife the chances of me eating out by myself every night would be much less. I come home around ten each night. Breakfast and lunch are rarely an issue. Is it really so ridiculous to hope to come home to leftovers or a sandwich two or three times a week? Sweet jesus I feel badly for the men in your life if you consider that an extreme sacrifice.


It isn't ridiculous. In fact, to many people and many cultures it is a gesture of love to feed someone. I know with my ethnic background it is a source of pride that a husband is well fed, fat and happy.


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## stldpn (May 4, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> Ummmm..... just fyi since you were mentioning "drive thru", usually that food has to cook fast, and hold for a long time. So, if you truly want something healthy, then maybe you should be healthy enough to leave your car and walk in a store and buy it.



Well I referenced drive thru because for work reasons I've found myself getting out late. My students, also working people, have similar issues. This is not a metro area,  the only places open are "convenience" spots. Wendy's, mcdonald's, perkin's, denny's, ihop and the like, there are few menu items that don't get shipped to the store in a vacuum bag. The only other "option" I have is the one that involves going home and preparing my own meals. Which I'm not too lazy to do, it'd just be nice if there was a reasonable variety of food. It's really too bad that you chose to make the assumption that I am lazy, would you have assumed that if you didn't know I was fat?


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## stldpn (May 4, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> Or you could learn to cook and take responsibility for your own health.



Who said I don't cook? I'd wager that 4 years working my way up to sous chef means that I might have more knowledge of basic culinary tricks than your average kraft mac and cheese cooking joe blow. But fresh food prep requires you to do a few things that are difficult when time is a personal issue. If I wasn't working noon to ten four days a week I'd have plenty of time to cook on those days. Thanks for assuming I don't take responsibility for myself simply because I disagree with the way that we've cut corners on food prep to buffer the bottom line.


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## CastingPearls (May 4, 2010)

stldpn said:


> Who said I don't cook? I'd wager that 4 years working my way up to sous chef means that I might have more knowledge of basic culinary tricks than your average kraft mac and cheese cooking joe blow. But fresh food prep requires you to do a few things that are difficult when time is a personal issue. If I wasn't working noon to ten four days a week I'd have plenty of time to cook on those days. Thanks for assuming I don't take responsibility for myself simply because I disagree with the way that we've cut corners on food prep to buffer the bottom line.


FWIW--I'm noticing in a lot of produce sections of markets, precut onions, peppers, olives, garlic etc...something to keep in mind since prep-work is usually the bulk of cooking.


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## LoveBHMS (May 4, 2010)

stldpn said:


> Well, yes and no. Theoretically if I had a wife the chances of me eating out by myself every night would be much less. I come home around ten each night. Breakfast and lunch are rarely an issue. Is it really so ridiculous to hope to come home to leftovers or a sandwich two or three times a week? Sweet jesus I feel badly for the men in your life if you consider that an extreme sacrifice.



Because it's a well documented fact that single people can't cook or make sandwiches. Exactly how much time and effort does it take to go to the store once a week and buy sliced turkey breast and make a sandwich when you get home?


> But fresh food prep requires you to do a few things that are difficult when time is a personal issue



Food prep? What about just getting healthy takeout from someplace like steamed veggies and chicken from a chinese restaurant or even a grocery store salad bar? Come on, even a Starbucks has yogurt parfaits, low fat muffins and whole grain bagels. For that matter, a 7-11 has low fat string cheese, yogurt, or even a meal replacement bar. Hardly a gourmet feast but perfectly healthy and a passable dinner when you're short on time.



> Which I'm not too lazy to do, it'd just be nice if there was a reasonable variety of food.



you're capable of getting the reasonable variety of food into the refrigerator the same way your wife would do it. Go to the store and buy it. Are you aware at all that there are tons of families where both parents work? And tons of single people who are healthy because they put the minimal effort into purchasing food so there will be a reasonable variety of it?


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## stldpn (May 4, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> First can we laugh at the notion of somebody complaining about the lack of a _healthy_ version of a chicken parm or meatball sub?



You find it funny? you do know that the chicken can be fresh rather than coming out pre breaded from a 20lb bag into the fryer right? or that god forbid you could make things fresh every morning rather than snipping open a non refrigerated bag and dumping it in a warmer. Not all restaurants rely on those kind of disgustingly unhealthy cost cutting measures, but apparently you and many other people are content to assume that the status quo should be rewarded.


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## CastingPearls (May 4, 2010)

Well documented fact?? REALLY? What study did that ''fact' get documented in?? Have you any idea how many single chefs there are? I've been cooking since before the top of my head cleared the stove. Standing on a chair. My husband who is inept at nearly everything cooked for himself when he was single. I bet I can document a helluva lot more single people who can cook long before you can provide proof of documentation for your fact.


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## stldpn (May 4, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> It isn't ridiculous. In fact, to many people and many cultures it is a gesture of love to feed someone. I know with my ethnic background it is a source of pride that a husband is well fed, fat and happy.



Trust me, it's only an issue because it's me. God forbid, it's not as if I misrepresent the things I want out of a woman to the woman I'm with in an effort to "trap" her. But apparently, wanting a more traditional life means that I must be evil.


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## CastingPearls (May 4, 2010)

stldpn said:


> Trust me, it's only an issue because it's me. God forbid, it's not as if I misrepresent the things I want out of a woman to the woman I'm with in an effort to "trap" her. But apparently, wanting a more traditional life means that I must be evil.


The horns don't show in your photos at all. Kudos to whoever photoshopped.


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## LoveBHMS (May 4, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> Well documented fact?? REALLY? What study did that ''fact' get documented in?? Have you any idea how many single chefs there are? I've been cooking since before the top of my head cleared the stove. Standing on a chair. My husband who is inept at nearly everything cooked for himself when he was single. I bet I can document a helluva lot more single people who can cook long before you can provide proof of documentation for your fact.



I was being sarcastic. This guy is claiming his barrier to good health is the lack of a wife and i'm pointing out that single people such as him are capable of cooking or preparing healthy food.


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## stldpn (May 4, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> Because it's a well documented fact that single people can't cook or make sandwiches. Exactly how much time and effort does it take to go to the store once a week and buy sliced turkey breast and make a sandwich when you get home?
> 
> 
> Food prep? What about just getting healthy takeout from someplace like steamed veggies and chicken from a chinese restaurant or even a grocery store salad bar? Come on, even a Starbucks has yogurt parfaits, low fat muffins and whole grain bagels. For that matter, a 7-11 has low fat string cheese, yogurt, or even a meal replacement bar. Hardly a gourmet feast but perfectly healthy and a passable dinner when you're short on time.
> ...



Contrary to all of your assumptions it's not like I don't take care of myself. My complaint was about the lack of healthy takeout. As I said breakfast and lunch are rarely the issue. But if you can name me a spot where I can find organic/whole foods/high protein carry out in lake county fl let me know. But as far as I can tell it doesn't exist.


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## CastingPearls (May 4, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> I was being sarcastic. This guy is claiming his barrier to good health is the lack of a wife and i'm pointing out that single people such as him are capable of cooking or preparing healthy food.


Actually if you review the thread, he takes good care of his health and has a woman in his life. He's also a skilled professional who has time management concerns and is voicing his opinions on the lack of healthy choices in food service. 

You know, it's really sad when people come to a community where they're supposed to have reasonable expectations to express their opinions without being attacked, ganged-up on or bullied in spite of their popularity or lack thereof.


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## LoveBHMS (May 4, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> Actually if you review the thread, he takes good care of his health and has a woman in his life. He's also a skilled professional who has time management concerns and is voicing his opinions on the lack of healthy choices in food service.
> 
> You know, it's really sad when people come to a community where they're supposed to have reasonable expectations to express their opinions without being attacked, ganged-up on or bullied in spite of their popularity or lack thereof.



Nobody is ganging up on him. He said he's had issues with his diabetes and then says that it would be easier if he were married. The two girls who responded are both students who also work full time jobs and one has posted about being a single parent. If you make comments to people who simultaneously work, go to school, and parent about _how much easier it would be_ if only you had somebody to shop and cook for you, you should expect a little backlash.


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## CastingPearls (May 4, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> Nobody is ganging up on him. He said he's had issues with his diabetes and then says that it would be easier if he were married. The two girls who responded are both students who also work full time jobs and one has posted about being a single parent. If you make comments to people who simultaneously work, go to school, and parent about _how much easier it would be_ if only you had somebody to shop and cook for you, you should expect a little backlash.


So, in the end, this thread devolved into a pissing contest over whose life is more complicated (and it would follow according to your logic, that the loser is not allowed to express how he feels because his life doesn't suck in comparison) and backlash is a new more empowering term for ganging up on people you don't like?
In a perfect world most of us would all like someone to cook for us. Does that make us lazy or ogres?


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## TraciJo67 (May 4, 2010)

Davastav said:


> Agreed - Fast Food in general is pretty bad despite their attempts at offering healthy alternatives. Honestly if I'm going to McDonald's for example I am most probably not going near their salads anyway...


 
I actually like McDonalds salads, and the fruit and yogurt with candied walnuts is to die for. My taste for fast food has changed in the past few years -- I used to love Big Macs with extra sauce and cheese, hold the healthy stuff (lettuce, tomatoes ) and those hot, greasy fries. I can't even remember when I last had one. Fast food just doesn't appeal to me anymore. It just tastes bland, salty, mushy, processed, and cheap. When I'm in the mood for a burger, I'd rather grill one myself - or spend a few dollars more and go to a sit-down restaurant. It's probably not much healthier, but it sure is tastier. 

That said, to the topic at hand: huge eye roll. Just another way to demonize McDonalds instead of placing responsibility squarely with those actually responsible: The parents of the toddlers/tweens who seem scared to death to say no. I take my son to McDonalds once in a while, and allow him to gorge himself on chicken nuggets, fries, milkshakes. It's a treat, not a dietary pattern. He loves the toy that comes with the meal, and I enjoy indulging him. It's up to his father and I to ensure that it's not a habitual thing. How retarded to think we should blame McDonalds for capitalizing on the obvious pull of a colorfully boxed junk food meal with a toy inside.


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## TraciJo67 (May 4, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> You know, it's really sad when people come to a community where they're supposed to have reasonable expectations to express their opinions without being attacked, ganged-up on or bullied in spite of their popularity or lack thereof.


 
lol

that is all

just ... lol


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## stldpn (May 4, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> So, in the end, this thread devolved into a pissing contest over whose life is more complicated (and it would follow according to your logic, that the loser is not allowed to express how he feels because his life doesn't suck in comparison) and backlash is a new more empowering term for ganging up on people you don't like?
> In a perfect world most of us would all like someone to cook for us. Does that make us lazy or ogres?



LOL this is how web boards work. Someone always assumes they have a right to be critical of someone else's lifestyle and opinions about what works/doesn't work for them based on their own biases about that person or idea. And once the assumption is made any evidence that might derail the process of debasing the person get's scrapped. For example, the fact that I don't define healthy as Low-cal or low fat doesn't enter into the equation when there's an opportunity to make a joke at my expense. It's how it goes, I do find it amusing that people are unable to step back from their assumptions for five minutes and consider that yes three people posting back and forth about how stupid someone else's opinion is would generally be considered "ganging up."


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## Vespertine (May 4, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> Actually if you review the thread, he takes good care of his health and has a woman in his life. He's also a skilled professional who has time management concerns and is voicing his opinions on the lack of healthy choices in food service.
> 
> You know, it's really sad when people come to a community where they're supposed to have reasonable expectations to express their opinions without being attacked, ganged-up on or bullied in spite of their popularity or lack thereof.



I have to agree. It depends on where you live, also. In SoCal, I find myself dealing with the no-win situation of 'driving thru' exponentially more often than I like in comparison to anywhere else I've lived, which is over a dozen places. I almost never drove thru in four years living in the North Bay area, had two years with zero trips. I'm a vegetarian with profound anti-big biz sentiments, so I'm just about out of options for time or sanity when I do. 

Not everyone is going to be brilliant in the kitchen. I have no predisposition to it, and why should I? Everyone has their talents, my cooking talent extends to toast making, slicing raw veggies and turning out some nice holiday cookies once a decade. I have other useful talents. Does anyone here really think humans ever all cooked for themselves?

Telling someone they aren't taking responsibility for their health when they make enough money to buy a healthy product would it be offered is a bit silly. A person _cannot_ be responsible for every last detail of their life, society needs to help out, we are social animals that depend on each other. If anyone wants to argue our work lives have been structured in a way to make being responsible to our health extremely difficult, I can support that. 

It would be nice if biz responded to consumer needs like this but it wouldn't be as profitable (oh the horror).


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## LoveBHMS (May 4, 2010)

Vespertine said:


> I have to agree. It depends on where you live, also. In SoCal, I find myself dealing with the no-win situation of 'driving thru' exponentially more often than I like in comparison to anywhere else I've lived, which is over a dozen places. I almost never drove thru in four years living in the North Bay area, had two years with zero trips. I'm a vegetarian with profound anti-big biz sentiments, so I'm just about out of options for time or sanity when I do.
> 
> Not everyone is going to be brilliant in the kitchen. I have no predisposition to it, and why should I? Everyone has their talents, my cooking talent extends to toast making, slicing raw veggies and turning out some nice holiday cookies once a decade. I have other useful talents. Does anyone here really think humans ever all cooked for themselves?
> 
> ...



It is not society's job to do somebody's grocery shopping.

This deal about 'structured work lives' is just as silly. He said he works noon to 10 four days a week. By my thinking that leaves three whole days off to go to the store, not to mention several waking hours in the mornings.


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## CastingPearls (May 4, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> It is not society's job to do somebody's grocery shopping.
> 
> This deal about 'structured work lives' is just as silly. He said he works noon to 10 four days a week. By my thinking that leaves three whole days off to go to the store, not to mention several waking hours in the mornings.


The thread is about fast food and healthy choice. As a consumer it isn't unreasonable for you, me or him to desire more options. 
Reworking HIS lifestyle to fit YOUR expectations is ludicrious. We don't know what else takes up his time and he doesn't owe it to us to hand over his dayplanner to pencil in visits to Piggly Wiggy.


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## thatgirl08 (May 4, 2010)

stldpn said:


> Well, yes and no. Theoretically if I had a wife the chances of me eating out by myself every night would be much less. I come home around ten each night. Breakfast and lunch are rarely an issue. Is it really so ridiculous to hope to come home to leftovers or a sandwich two or three times a week? Sweet jesus I feel badly for the men in your life if you consider that an extreme sacrifice.



There isn't a single man in my life expects me to cook for them cause this isn't fucking 1950 anymore and I don't surround myself with misogynistic assholes who expect women to be in the kitchen makin' sandwiches to keep their man "well fed and happy" or whatever CP said. If you want a sandwich.. go to the store, buy some bread and cold cuts, and make it your damn self. Between work and school my days are hours longer than yours and somehow I manage to keep myself fed. Did your four years of training as a sous chef teach you how to spread some mayo on a slice of wonderbread?


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## TraciJo67 (May 4, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> There isn't a single man in my life expects me to cook for them cause this isn't fucking 1950 anymore and I don't surround myself with misogynistic assholes who expect women to be in the kitchen makin' sandwiches to keep their man "well fed and happy" or whatever CP said. If you want a sandwich.. go to the store, buy some bread and cold cuts, and make it your damn self. Between work and school my days are hours longer than yours and somehow I manage to keep myself fed. Did your four years of training as a sous chef teach you how to spread some mayo on a slice of wonderbread?


 
I didn't like the way that he worded it, either. But I don't think we should crucify him just yet ... he still has another few inches of rope to play with  

My husband hates to cook, and if left to his own devices, just prior to starvation he'd pop a frozen pizza in the oven. I do all of the cooking, and I'm happy to do it for him. He doesn't expect it, and he more than makes up for it by taking over household chores that I detest. But yeah, he gets a hot meal served to him, most nights. I think that's a perk of being in a partnership. He doesn't have to cook, I don't have to do laundry. I wouldn't call my husband a misogynist because he doesn't know his way around the kitchen, and frankly, he would be complaining about the same things that stldpn was, if he was single.


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## stldpn (May 4, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> There isn't a single man in my life expects me to cook for them cause this isn't fucking 1950 anymore and I don't surround myself with misogynistic assholes who expect women to be in the kitchen makin' sandwiches to keep their man "well fed and happy" or whatever CP said. If you want a sandwich.. go to the store, buy some bread and cold cuts, and make it your damn self. Between work and school my days are hours longer than yours and somehow I manage to keep myself fed. Did your four years of training as a sous chef teach you how to spread some mayo on a slice of wonderbread?



lmao It is neither misogynistic nor controlling to ask a woman who is your wife to assist in feeding you. You're not my wife, I didn't fucking ask YOU to make me a sandwich. With your "I don't have time to meet any of your needs" attitude, I wouldn't even be interested in a date.

The truth is everybody is busy now and then, but if your day is spent doing only the things that benefit you directly then YOU shouldn't be in a relationship. If making an extra sandwich while you're making something for yourself, or god forbid putting aside a plate for someone you supposedly love is too much effort it's not misogyny it's selfishness that's an issue.

People do things for each other, and sooner or later you're going to want him to do something for you. Maybe make you a sandwich if he's the first one home at night even?


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## thatgirl08 (May 4, 2010)

stldpn said:


> lmao It is neither misogynistic nor controlling to ask a woman who is your wife to assist in feeding you. You're not my wife, I didn't fucking ask YOU to make me a sandwich. With your "I don't have time to meet any of your needs" attitude, I wouldn't even be interested in a date.
> 
> The truth is everybody is busy now and then, but if your day is spent doing only the things that benefit you directly then YOU shouldn't be in a relationship. If making an extra sandwich while you're making something for yourself, or god forbid putting aside a plate for someone you supposedly love is too much effort it's not misogyny it's selfishness that's an issue.
> 
> People do things for each other, and sooner or later you're going to want him to do something for you. Maybe make you a sandwich if he's the first one home at night even?



You realize you're back pedaling, right?


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## stldpn (May 4, 2010)

stldpn said:


> Even the local pizza spots use canned sauce. And if you're diabetic you know how crappy that stuff really is. *Shitty to say but this is one of a million reasons why I sometimes think it would be nice to be married.*





thatgirl08 said:


> You realize you're back pedaling, right?



I'm not backpedaling. Maybe you just reacted without knowing what the hell was said. But then again maybe you should clarify things before you make so many assumptions.


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## thatgirl08 (May 4, 2010)

stldpn said:


> Is it really so ridiculous to hope to come home to leftovers or a sandwich two or three times a week? Sweet jesus I feel badly for the men in your life if you consider that an extreme sacrifice.





stldpn said:


> God forbid, it's not as if I misrepresent *the things I want out of a woman* to the woman I'm with in an effort to "trap" her.





stldpn said:


> But apparently, wanting a more traditional life means that I must be evil.



Let me know where I'm misreading.


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## Nutty (May 4, 2010)

Well *I* think Happy Meals should *NOT* be banned because not only are you getting food, but a* FREE TOY!!*


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## stldpn (May 5, 2010)

Let's take a trip back to the beginning..



thatgirl08 said:


> Yeah, get them bitches in the kitchen.



you're honestly telling me that this statement above is a reasonable non assumptive response to the one I put forth below



stldpn said:


> Even the local pizza spots use canned sauce. And if you're diabetic you know how crappy that stuff really is. Shitty to say but this is one of a million reasons why I sometimes think it would be nice to be married.






thatgirl08 said:


> There isn't a single man in my life expects me to cook for them cause this isn't fucking 1950 anymore and I don't surround myself with misogynistic assholes who expect women to be in the kitchen makin' sandwiches to keep their man "well fed and happy" or whatever CP said. If you want a sandwich.. go to the store, buy some bread and cold cuts, and make it your damn self. Between work and school my days are hours longer than yours and somehow I manage to keep myself fed. Did your four years of training as a sous chef teach you how to spread some mayo on a slice of wonderbread?



and better yet that it's polite to assume that not only do I not reciprocate based on the statement


> Is it really so ridiculous to hope to come home to leftovers or a sandwich two or three times a week? Sweet jesus I feel badly for the men in your life if you consider that an extreme sacrifice.


But that I'm talking about the need for every woman to jump in the kitchen and make me a sandwich? I'm clarifying, and it's blatantly obvious to me that you're now attempting to say that I'm backpedaling because you realize that you made a lot of dumb assumptions based on one line in one post that you found offensive.




thatgirl08 said:


> You realize you're back pedaling, right?



I stick by my statement if you don't have time to make an extra fucking sandwich I pity the poor bastard that tries to make that one sided relationship work.




thatgirl08 said:


> Let me know where I'm misreading.


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## thatgirl08 (May 5, 2010)

Let's take a trip back to the way beginning where you blamed corporations for your inability to stop eating like shit.


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## stldpn (May 5, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> Let's take a trip back to the way beginning where you blamed corporations for your inability to stop eating like shit.



wait so now we don't want to discuss your behavior? We did have a sort o0f interesting dialogue going on before you felt the need to interject the idea that I was a mysogynistic pig. 

I never blamed anyone. I simply said it sucked that most fast food joints rarely carry anything fit for a diabetic to eat. I didn't get fat from eating fast food anyway. I got fat because I weight trained for 5 years with the desire TO GAIN MASS.


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## thatgirl08 (May 5, 2010)

Interesting? I must've missed it. But seriously, talk about my "behavior" all you want. I still think I'm right. Are we getting anywhere?


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## stldpn (May 5, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> Interesting? I must've missed it. But seriously, talk about my "behavior" all you want. I still think I'm right. Are we getting anywhere?



no, because obviously you're not going to admit that you might have dumped the cart afore the horse huh? I'm waiting, what's your next face saving tactic?


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## thatgirl08 (May 5, 2010)

stldpn said:


> no, because obviously you're not going to admit that you might have dumped the cart afore the horse huh? I'm waiting, what's your next face saving tactic?



You're fucking obnoxious.


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## mossystate (May 5, 2010)

Cast a line...get a nibble...yank...dare...react with ' outrage ' and clarify ( natch )...rinse....repeat....live another day to plant the same old seed.

wheeeeee

lol


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## mossystate (May 5, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> The horns don't show in your photos at all. Kudos to whoever photoshopped.



* color me confused *


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## KHayes666 (May 5, 2010)

Stl is right when he says not knowing you how to cook doesn't automatically make you a misogynist and Rachel is right when she says that EXPECTING and demanding of someone else to cook for you is downright BS. I for one can't cook to save my life and my father (who was a cook during the Vietnam War) never bothered to show me. However I have never...EVER expected nor demanded my g/f or her mother to cook for me. If anything I can't cook yet I order take out or buy food for me and my girl all the time.

But that's not the topic at hand....the topic at hand is the toys for tots idea at fast food places. When I was a kid the toys at McDonalds were cheap hunks of plastic, you weren't really getting anything special anyway. The only real crazes that really brought people to McDonalds were the original Monopoly (which tampered off when it was discovered that the game was rigged) and the Teenie Beanie Baby ideas. 

From a marketing standpoint its a great idea to serve bonuses to draw customers. Toys, extra food, games....its all about BUSINESS. Which goes back to my original point of child obesity being caused by lazy children and even lazier parents. How is it McDonalds fault if little Jimmy sits on his ass and plays X-Box live from 5 pm to 11 and the only meal he eats is from McDonalds? When little Tiffany sits and watches Glee, American Idol, NCIS and nonstop tv all day and night, how is it McDonalds fault if she's bursting out of her bathing suit come summer time?

McDonalds serving toys with their meal isn't making kids fat, its the parents for letting their lazy children stay indoors and eat nothing but crap. Hell I ate at Mcdonalds the other day and then I walked around Salem checking out the historical areas. All kids have to do is get some semblence of exercise in their lives and this "obesity epidemic" wouldn't be a problem.


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## tonynyc (May 5, 2010)

Watch the food network - learn to appreciate and enjoy cooking... you'll be better off in the long run...


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## LoveBHMS (May 5, 2010)

stldpn said:


> wait so now we don't want to discuss your behavior? We did have a sort o0f interesting dialogue going on before you felt the need to interject the idea that I was a mysogynistic pig.
> 
> I never blamed anyone. I simply said it sucked that most fast food joints rarely carry anything fit for a diabetic to eat. I didn't get fat from eating fast food anyway. *I got fat because I weight trained for 5 years with the desire TO GAIN MASS*.



FWIW, muscle and fat are two different things. Muscle does not turn to fat, despite what people think so no, if you're fat it is not because you lifted weights.

If you're diabetic you need to do what everyone else with special dietary needs does, make your own accomodations. I've been a vegetarian most of my life so there is very little i can eat at fast food places. I've had many many times where i stopped at 7-11 and got a coffee and granola bar or coffee and a few pieces of string cheese. Not luxury but a way to keep from going hungry. As was pointed out upthread, Taco Bell's fresco menu is a good healthy option also.


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## Tracyarts (May 5, 2010)

" You find it funny? you do know that the chicken can be fresh rather than coming out pre breaded from a 20lb bag into the fryer right? "

Funny in a snarky and ironic kind of way. Given that most people I know define "healthy" food as low fat, low sugar, low calorie, and low sodium, and give no thought whatsoever about how it was made and what it was made from. All they care is that it tastes decent, is easy to get/prepare, isn't out of their price range, and meets their critera for "healthy". And also, most people I know either wouldn't have the first clue of what to do with fresh chicken, or would be too squicked out and intimidated by the "raw chicken gives you salmonella" factor to even touch it. They can manage preparing a frozen precooked breaded chicken breast. But anything else is beyond their culinary skills or comfort zone. And of the ones who would be willing to take on the challenge, many would think it was either too time consuming or too expensive to be realistic for their lifestyles. 

Tracy


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## stldpn (May 5, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> FWIW, muscle and fat are two different things. Muscle does not turn to fat, despite what people think so no, if you're fat it is not because you lifted weights.
> 
> If you're diabetic you need to do what everyone else with special dietary needs does, make your own accomodations. I've been a vegetarian most of my life so there is very little i can eat at fast food places. I've had many many times where i stopped at 7-11 and got a coffee and granola bar or coffee and a few pieces of string cheese. Not luxury but a way to keep from going hungry. As was pointed out upthread, Taco Bell's fresco menu is a good healthy option also.



I am fat because because I gained mass in order to lift. I was always chunky but 20% body fat is pretty damn average for a powerlifter. Even at my current 28.3%(measured via hydrostatic scales) I wouldn't be considered out of shape in a super-heavy or unlimited competition. I'm "old school" I don't do anabolics and I don't "lift lean" because it gets more dangerous to do it the older you are.

But back on track? I'm a type one diabetic, which means that I've been a diabetic for over thirty years, and I make *lots* of accommodations. Believe it or not for six years I edited a monthly web based newsletter aimed at outpatient education for adults with diabetes. 
This is the full breakdown of nutrition facts for all of taco bells products if you can point to one thing on that list that isn't a condiment or a soft drink that has *less than * 20 mg of cholesterol and 500mg of sodium(btw the mayo clinic currently advises anyone with kidney disease to stay under 1500mg of sodium per day) I'll buy it for you. Being a vegetarian is a choice. Being a diabetic is not a choice, and it's a hard enough life without having to subsist on granola and coffee four nights a week. 

There are 26 million adults with diabetes (roughly 9% of the population) in this country, and not one of the major fast food chains is putting out a product that I would feel comfortable recommending to a diabetic. Do you really seriously think that people who say that's screwed up are just whining or not "taking responsibility"?


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## msbard90 (May 5, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> You're fucking obnoxious.



IF I COULD REP YOU I SOOOOOO WOULD!!!!! I FUCKING LOVE YOU!


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## stldpn (May 5, 2010)

Tracyarts said:


> " You find it funny? you do know that the chicken can be fresh rather than coming out pre breaded from a 20lb bag into the fryer right? "
> 
> Funny in a snarky and ironic kind of way. Given that most people I know define "healthy" food as low fat, low sugar, low calorie, and low sodium, and give no thought whatsoever about how it was made and what it was made from. All they care is that it tastes decent, is easy to get/prepare, isn't out of their price range, and meets their critera for "healthy". And also, most people I know either wouldn't have the first clue of what to do with fresh chicken, or would be too squicked out and intimidated by the *"raw chicken gives you salmonella*" factor to even touch it. They can manage preparing a frozen precooked breaded chicken breast. But anything else is beyond their culinary skills or comfort zone. And of the ones who would be willing to take on the challenge, many would think it was either too time consuming or too expensive to be realistic for their lifestyles.
> 
> Tracy



I'm a little aghast. You'd rather consume chicken treated with bha and other suspected carcinogens than take a chance of getting salmonella? Do you know that many oncology specialists (even the not fruity ones) advise patients against consuming non-organic meats because of the effects that glucocortoids can have on a tumor? I'm also wondering how that's cheaper since last I checked a 6 oz box of tyson tenders was going for four bucks and a lb of chicken and a lb of flour could be purchased for around eight bucks.


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## stldpn (May 5, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> You're fucking obnoxious.



Yeah but at least I read other people's posts without assuming they're lazy, stupid, and misogynistic.


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## stldpn (May 5, 2010)

mossystate said:


> Cast a line...get a nibble...yank...dare...react with ' outrage ' and clarify ( natch )...rinse....repeat....live another day to plant the same old seed.
> 
> wheeeeee
> 
> lol



Is that supposed to be you or me? I'm confused.

Nice contribution to the thread though. Do you have anything else to say about happy meals?


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## LoveBHMS (May 5, 2010)

stldpn said:


> I am fat because because I gained mass in order to lift. I was always chunky but 20% body fat is pretty damn average for a powerlifter. Even at my current 28.3%(measured via hydrostatic scales) I wouldn't be considered out of shape in a super-heavy or unlimited competition. I'm "old school" I don't do anabolics and I don't "lift lean" because it gets more dangerous to do it the older you are.
> 
> But back on track? I'm a type one diabetic, which means that I've been a diabetic for over thirty years, and I make *lots* of accommodations. Believe it or not for six years I edited a monthly web based newsletter aimed at outpatient education for adults with diabetes.
> This is the full breakdown of nutrition facts for all of taco bells products if you can point to one thing on that list that isn't a condiment or a soft drink that has *less than * 20 mg of cholesterol and 500mg of sodium(btw the mayo clinic currently advises anyone with kidney disease to stay under 1500mg of sodium per day) I'll buy it for you. Being a vegetarian is a choice. Being a diabetic is not a choice, and it's a hard enough life without having to subsist on granola and coffee four nights a week.
> ...



The Volcano Taco and the Fresco Taco are both under 500 mg. of sodium, and most of the Diet Menu is under 1000 mg.

Fast food joints are not hospital cafeterias. They're fast food and they're mostly cheap and loaded with sodium, fat and calories. They also don't have much to cater to anyone with celiac disease or a metabolic disorder where you can't break down fat. (i forgot what it's called but it exists.) When i said you had to take responsibility i meant to arrange for yourself to eat without having to resort to fast food. If you're going to just stomp your feet and refuse to just go to the store once a week and buy products you'd need for dinner on the go, that's on you. Do you have a backpack or briefcase? Go to the store, buy bread and sliced deli turkey, make a sandwich and take it to your job. Problem solved. Millions of people manage to not starve to death without Burger King having food for them to eat.


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## LoveBHMS (May 5, 2010)

stldpn said:


> I'm a little aghast. You'd rather consume chicken treated with bha and other suspected carcinogens than take a chance of getting salmonella? Do you know that many oncology specialists (even the not fruity ones) advise patients against consuming non-organic meats because of the effects that glucocortoids can have on a tumor? I'm also wondering how that's cheaper since last I checked a 6 oz box of tyson tenders was going for four bucks and a lb of chicken and a lb of flour could be purchased for around eight bucks.



1. Buy chicken.
2. roast chicken.
3. slice chicken and place in some sort of container.
4. place container in your briefcase.

Problem solved. Cheap healthy food any time of day or night.


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## msbard90 (May 5, 2010)

stldpn said:


> Yeah but at least I read other people's posts without assuming they're lazy, stupid, and misogynistic.



Seems to me like you're just trying to argue with everyone. You probably should take a breath and think before posting.


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## stldpn (May 5, 2010)

Please try again I spy 5 g of sat fat(trig) and 35 mg of cholesterol in that volcano taco. And what we have to remember is that even those numbers can vary based on the beef that's in them. 



stldpn said:


> This is the full breakdown of nutrition facts for all of taco bells products if you can point to one thing on that list that isn't a condiment or a soft drink that has *less than * 20 mg of cholesterol and 500mg of sodium(btw the mayo clinic currently advises anyone with kidney disease to stay under 1500mg of sodium per day) I'll buy it for you. Being a vegetarian is a choice. Being a diabetic is not a choice, and it's a hard enough life without having to subsist on granola and coffee four nights a week.





LoveBHMS said:


> The Volcano Taco and the Fresco Taco are both under 500 mg. of sodium, and most of the Diet Menu is under 1000 mg.
> 
> Fast food joints are not hospital cafeterias. They're fast food and they're mostly cheap and loaded with sodium, fat and calories. They also don't have much to cater to anyone with celiac disease or a metabolic disorder where you can't break down fat. (i forgot what it's called but it exists.) When i said you had to take responsibility i meant to arrange for yourself to eat without having to resort to fast food. If you're going to just stomp your feet and refuse to just go to the store once a week and buy products you'd need for dinner on the go, that's on you. Do you have a backpack or briefcase? Go to the store, buy bread and sliced deli turkey, make a sandwich and take it to your job. Problem solved. Millions of people manage to not starve to death without Burger King having food for them to eat.



Celiac sprue is closer to about 4% of the population though right? Did you know that almost 20% of adults diagnosed with celiac sprue are also type 1 diabetics? I don't think I'm throwing a tantrum. Just stating the fact that it stinks. BTW it's not really advisable to leave turkey unrefrigerated for over eight hours, otherwise I might have done just that.


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## fatgirlflyin (May 5, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> The most ridiculous part of all of this is the fact that children don't own cars. They don't have money. They can't walk in and buy a Happy Meal. Someone is bringing them to McDonalds and purchasing the Happy Meal for them. Maybe parents need to learn to say no, you can't have that. I guarantee that even if the toys are gone parents will buy their kids fast food still.



Too true! Sure the toys may ask some kids to go to McDonalds when they see the commercials on tv but McDonalds isn't going to lose any business if they can't put the food in a cardboard box and include a little toy.


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## stldpn (May 5, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> Seems to me like you're just trying to argue with everyone. You probably should take a breath and think before posting.



I should take a break? I was staying on topic before all of this turned into a personal attack. I know you're sticking up for your little buddy, but do us both a favor and remember I'm not the one who started in with the unprovoked inflammatory rhetoric.


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## LoveBHMS (May 5, 2010)

stldpn said:


> Please try again I spy 5 g of sat fat(trig) and 35 mg of cholesterol in that volcano taco. And what we have to remember is that even those numbers can vary based on the beef that's in them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So i guess you work someplace that does not have refrigerators? Like where, the same rock quarry as Fred Flinstone? And i'll just save us both time and assume you don't have access to a cold pack sort of thing that you keep in the freezer overnight and just pack with your dinner to keep it cold.

The bottom line is if fast food places can't provide you with a dinner to suit your needs, you take responsibility for yourself. It "stinks"? Cry me a river. You live in the US and you have a job that pays you enough to buy food; that puts you way the heck ahead of a lot of people on this planet. Your diabetes is causing problems because you're not taking care of yourself, not because McDonalds isn't doing its part to cater to your dietary needs

And let's just also throw out the obvious which is that fast food really is not good for anyone. Not children, not diabetics, not anyone with high blood pressure or celiac. The brown paper bag industry has survived this long because people pack their own food to go to work.


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## msbard90 (May 5, 2010)

stldpn said:


> BTW it's not really advisable to leave turkey unrefrigerated for over eight hours, otherwise I might have done just that.



Ice packs and thermal lunch boxes work wonders.


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## msbard90 (May 5, 2010)

stldpn said:


> I should take a break? I was staying on topic before all of this turned into a personal attack. I know you're sticking up for your little buddy, but do us both a favor and remember I'm not the one who started in with the unprovoked inflammatory rhetoric.



Oh, because your original statement had everything to do with a happy meal, right? Oh wait... unless you're like ten, I don't think you're buying those anymore. And I'd never do you any favors.... by the way.

And like the majority of people who have a brain here have stated, McDonald's isn't meant to be eaten every day. If you are going to be eating it every day, you should damn well know what you are doing to yourself. And if you are subjecting your children to a $4.00 happy meal every day because you can't cook the poor kid a dinner, then there's another serious issue as well. I don't think anyone at McDonald's corporate would condone someone eating so much McDonald's as to worsen their diabetes or make them obese. They are a business. They make hamburgers because people like to eat them. If your doctor is saying no hamburgers/fast food, then maybe you should be doing yourself a favor and follow their advice. If you cared so much about what you ate, you would have found a way to "safely" pack one by now.


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## Vespertine (May 5, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> It is not society's job to do somebody's grocery shopping.



No, not to buy people's groceries, no one was suggesting that. But yes I say, it most definitely is the wider society's role to help people out on legitimate needs- actually what else is it there for, decoration? If our agricultural policies directly reward biz for selling cheap/gov subsidized 'food'stuffs full of additives that everyone knows is garbage, it most definitely is down to our larger society and also government to intervene on monopolies doing it, and there are many more involved than the end-product fast food chains. Unless of course the big corpz suddenly grow souls to go with their personhood. 

Stldpn isn't unique in dependence on fast food, it is a national trend, and its not because Americans are dumb and lazy, I don't buy that for a second. It doesn't matter what the societal needs or willingness to meet them are, cos big biz is making the rules and is anti-social in its behavior when profit is threatened. People only accept wilty fast food 'health' options cos they can't get anything else. Many people want fresh and whole ingredients in their prepared food, but smaller biz serving those needs is going to have trouble competing. I know cos I tried to start a healthy drive-thru biz in SoCal when I first moved to CA eightish years ago. You have to be very lucky with real estate or a millionaire to start a small business like this from scratch. 

It's really pretty deliberate, cos small biz people buy up franchises instead of doing their own thing, then are the first to suffer from bad corporate policy. I wanted to franchise my own good ideas, and ran into a lot of trouble I wouldn't have if I took my funds and bought an established brand. Mainly afaics from landowners preferring a franchise that doubtlessly would come, from the drive-thru locations I looked into. It was always dinky brands that went bust like Wiener-Schnitzel, the big ones stick around forever. Even if a franchisee has to drop out cos of revenue issues, the brand still has enough value to pawn off on another sucker.



> This deal about 'structured work lives' is just as silly. He said he works noon to 10 four days a week. By my thinking that leaves three whole days off to go to the store, not to mention several waking hours in the mornings.



As far as that, if he still says his time is short, why not just believe him instead of assuming he's an irresponsible person. If he can't or doesn't want to cook on his days off, why can't he muse about the troubling state of our food system as reflected in his area. My time off is golden, there's been weekends where I just needed to be off my feet and do something to ease work-induced stress or else had other urgent or fun errands, laundry be damned. There isn't enough time for all of it and sanity too. 

Maybe I'm biased cos I was raised in a diabetic household and think everyone can do without this junk. Fast food chains are a powerful force for providing food, they can easily turn themselves into a true outlet for healthier food not by changing their menu to my model, but just by getting crap like sugar out of places it doesn't belong. They don't, and it's worth looking at why.


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## fatgirlflyin (May 5, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> There isn't a single man in my life expects me to cook for them cause this isn't fucking 1950 anymore and I don't surround myself with misogynistic assholes who expect women to be in the kitchen makin' sandwiches to keep their man "well fed and happy" or whatever CP said. If you want a sandwich.. go to the store, buy some bread and cold cuts, and make it your damn self. Between work and school my days are hours longer than yours and somehow I manage to keep myself fed. Did your four years of training as a sous chef teach you how to spread some mayo on a slice of wonderbread?



I'm not sure that commenting that he would be eating healthier if he had a wife makes him a misogynist. I don't think there's anything wrong with having roles in relationships as long as people go into them with their eyes wide open.

I will be the first one to admit that I eat healthier when my bf is home than I do when he's away. Same goes for when my kids are home versus when they are off visiting grandma or something. Its a pain in the ass for me to cook a meal for myself, so when I'm alone I'm apt to stop at subway or grab a salad someplace. If 'm cooking it for my family then its something I enjoy doing and actually spend the time to prepare and cook a healthy meal. 

Also, I work 10 hour shifts 4 days a week with wierd hours, and doing anything before or after work doesn't happen because I'm too tired. My first day off is spent sleeping to make up for the lack of sleep during my work week and the other two days are spent on school and keeping the house in order.


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## LoveBHMS (May 5, 2010)

Vespertine said:


> No, not to buy people's groceries, no one was suggesting that. But yes I say, it most definitely is the wider society's role to help people out on legitimate needs- actually what else is it there for, decoration? If our agricultural policies directly reward biz for selling cheap/gov subsidized 'food'stuffs full of additives that everyone knows is garbage, it most definitely is down to our larger society and also government to intervene on monopolies doing it, and there are many more involved than the end-product fast food chains. Unless of course the big corpz suddenly grow souls to go with their personhood.
> 
> Stldpn isn't unique in dependence on fast food, it is a national trend, and its not because Americans are dumb and lazy, I don't buy that for a second. It doesn't matter what the societal needs or willingness to meet them are, cos big biz is making the rules and is anti-social in its behavior when profit is threatened. People only accept wilty fast food 'health' options cos they can't get anything else. Many people want fresh and whole ingredients in their prepared food, but smaller biz serving those needs is going to have trouble competing. I know cos I tried to start a healthy drive-thru biz in SoCal when I first moved to CA eightish years ago. You have to be very lucky with real estate or a millionaire to start a small business like this from scratch.
> 
> ...



You're making this way way way too complicated. As far as what society has to do, i'll give one example. Food stamps can't be used for prepared food, even a cup of coffee. You can't use them at McDonalds or BK. 

Sure everyone is tired on their days off. I am, everyone is. But like you i'm a vegetarian so fast food is not an option for me ever. In what way is society responsible for me? The fact that i'm tired and still have to buy food is not some terrible travesty. The supermarket is opened at 7:00 am and in many places there are 24 hour markets or markets open till 10 pm or midnight. As far as i'm concerned they are responding to consumer needs. Supermarkets sell plenty of cheap healthy food (rice, beans, peanut butter, oatmeal, canned and frozen fruit, etc.) 

I'm not willing to blame society if i'm tired on my day off work and don't feel like shopping cause i sort of have to do it anyway. I mean i don't expect the government to drop by with fresh groceries and do my laundry.


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## superodalisque (May 5, 2010)

i really understand everyone's concern about having the right to eat what they want to, but why so much hostility around healthier choices and against parents who don't want their children needlessly enticed by things that have nothing at all to do with how the food tastes or feels to children. whats really going on here? clarify for me: do you feel that moves like this will take away your food? do you think healthier food will bring more attention to what you are or what people think you are eating along with their opinions about it? could there be a little fear that healthier choices will actually make a lot of people thinner than they are and you'll stand out more? i'm just trying to wrap my head around why its so important to support things like a 1/10th penny toy thats used to entice kids to eat things that they don't really like that aren't good for them. as someone mentioned many kids throw the stuff away half eaten or drown it in ketchup anyway. why are we supporting children getting addicted to cheap ingredients when they could actually be happily fat eating things that taste good and are good for them? i'm just not getting it.


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## Vespertine (May 5, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> You're making this way way way too complicated. As far as what society has to do, i'll give one example. Food stamps can't be used for prepared food, even a cup of coffee. You can't use them at McDonalds or BK.



I am not making it too complicated. I'm pointing out how the monopolization goes quite deep and is supported by our policies. You think I'm the only genius to come up with a healthy fast food drive thru? I mean, its an obvious market. Jack in the Box accepts Food Stamps now, and McD's has in the past.



> Sure everyone is tired on their days off. I am, everyone is. But like you i'm a vegetarian so fast food is not an option for me ever. In what way is society responsible for me? The fact that i'm tired and still have to buy food is not some terrible travesty. The supermarket is opened at 7:00 am and in many places there are 24 hour markets or markets open till 10 pm or midnight. As far as i'm concerned they are responding to consumer needs. Supermarkets sell plenty of cheap healthy food (rice, beans, peanut butter, oatmeal, canned and frozen fruit, etc.)
> 
> I'm not willing to blame society if i'm tired on my day off work and don't feel like shopping cause i sort of have to do it anyway. I mean i don't expect the government to drop by with fresh groceries and do my laundry.



It is a travesty if you have any idea of how competitive business should work.


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## fatgirlflyin (May 5, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i really understand everyone's concern about having the right to eat what they want to, but why so much hostility around healthier choices and against parents who don't want their children needlessly enticed by things that have nothing at all to do with how the food tastes or feels to children. whats really going on here? clarify for me: do you feel that moves like this will take away your food? do you think healthier food will bring more attention to what you are or what people think you are eating along with their opinions about it? could there be a little fear that healthier choices will actually make a lot of people thinner than they are and you'll stand out more? i'm just trying to wrap my head around why its so important to support things like a 1/10th penny toy thats used to entice kids to eat things that they don't really like that aren't good for them. as someone mentioned many kids throw the stuff away half eaten or drown it in ketchup anyway. i'm just not getting it.





Plenty of skinny people live on McDonalds, and I could care less that someone may think I do too just because I'm fat. What I take issue with is the idea that there is a group of people who have decided that all the other parents in the community need to have the evil temptaion of happy meal toys taken away from them, because after all, that's why they are all feeding their kids burgers and fries.

Its not the toys, its the lack of time many parents have, that have drive thru lines so full around dinner time. Mom and dad both work, one of them stops to get the kids from the day care center on the way home from work say around 6 or so. The other stops and picks up dinner on their way home. Fastest and most economical choice? Something that comes with fries and a drink included. For single parents its the same thing, just one parent doing it all. Toys or not, people are still going to be eating at fast food places.


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## mossystate (May 5, 2010)

stldpn said:


> Nice contribution to the thread though.




Thanks!


:bow:


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## superodalisque (May 5, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> You're making this way way way too complicated. As far as what society has to do, i'll give one example. Food stamps can't be used for prepared food, even a cup of coffee. You can't use them at McDonalds or BK.
> 
> Sure everyone is tired on their days off. I am, everyone is. But like you i'm a vegetarian so fast food is not an option for me ever. In what way is society responsible for me? The fact that i'm tired and still have to buy food is not some terrible travesty. The supermarket is opened at 7:00 am and in many places there are 24 hour markets or markets open till 10 pm or midnight. As far as i'm concerned they are responding to consumer needs. Supermarkets sell plenty of cheap healthy food (rice, beans, peanut butter, oatmeal, canned and frozen fruit, etc.)
> 
> I'm not willing to blame society if i'm tired on my day off work and don't feel like shopping cause i sort of have to do it anyway. I mean i don't expect the government to drop by with fresh groceries and do my laundry.





yes, this is the typical american attitude, and this is also why our diets are so narrow and basically bad. its why we are so sickly when compared to the rest of the 1st world. it sounds like corporate justification for selling things that basically add to the chronic illness and mortality rate. i really respect a lot of European countries and the way that society there has jointly decided to be responsible for each other as it regards food, health, education etc... thats what society is for--a shared responsibility. otherwise people would just be running around lawlessly and with no conscience regarding other people or the order that that care creates. then having society at all would be a pointless exercise.

when people talk about the problems in this country it can all be pointed back at the lack of will we have to be as responsible as we should be to provide for the best case in society. if its so easy to provide for people who want to eat the worst quality food available why can't we also provide for people who'd like to eat the best? i think whats going on is that corporations don't want to produce the best because its a bit more expensive and labor intensive. also if they do start producing tasteful healthy food they know more people will want it and they feel it would cut into their bottom line. its only about the money. if people really want something they do need to ask for it or nothing ever changes--just like those parents in Cali did.

in this case food corporations aren't really filling a consumer need. like the cigarette industry, they are trying to create one through addiction. they know that certain foods like salt, fat and sugar are biologically addictive. so they ply us with cheap products that are much too fatty, salty and sugary. they know exactly how the mechanisms work and they've seen the studies. none of them want to admit that issues with diabetes and high blood pressure among the young began with the introduction of hormones and chemicals meant to increase crop and stock productivity as well. they are also well aware that its hard to get children who haven't been unexposed to their bland food to eat it without the inducement of promises of some kind of fun or play or toy. by keeping the food bland and without spices they get people to eat more. they know that people feel more satisfaction of appetite when there is more flavor in the food. if you have little flavor people will eat more and purchase more. 

making it more difficult for people who want to eat well on the run is also part of the strategy. its no accident that drive throughs with healthy foods aren't out there. there is plenty of pressure you can bring to bear on the marketplace when you have so much money and influence in congress. so many things you've never even heard of don't have the chance to get off the ground. sure, the fast food restaurants all have a few healthy choices, but not enough to make it feel that people really do have a choice. and they make sure to engineer the taste in ways that they don't compete with the other things on the menu that cost them less to sell.


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## superodalisque (May 5, 2010)

fatgirlflyin said:


> Plenty of skinny people live on McDonalds, and I could care less that someone may think I do too just because I'm fat. What I take issue with is the idea that there is a group of people who have decided that all the other parents in the community need to have the evil temptaion of happy meal toys taken away from them, because after all, that's why they are all feeding their kids burgers and fries.
> 
> Its not the toys, its the lack of time many parents have, that have drive thru lines so full around dinner time. Mom and dad both work, one of them stops to get the kids from the day care center on the way home from work say around 6 or so. The other stops and picks up dinner on their way home. Fastest and most economical choice? Something that comes with fries and a drink included. For single parents its the same thing, just one parent doing it all. Toys or not, people are still going to be eating at fast food places.




i agree that people will still eat fast food. but what harm is it if a group of people who are also parents decide they just don't want the toy there? it doesn't stop the people who are going to buy the fast food anyway. 

one thing i think would be better is if they actually pressured MacDonalds to have healthier food for children and no toys. and i think that should be food industry wide. that would help out single parents with the begging and keep their children's health in tact at the same time.


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## fatgirlflyin (May 5, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i agree that people will still eat fast food. but what harm is it if a group of people who are also parents decide they just don't want the toy there? it doesn't stop the people who are going to buy the fast food anyway.
> 
> one thing i think would be better is if they actually pressured MacDonalds to have healthier food for children and no toys. and i think that should be food industry wide. that would help out single parents with the begging and keep their children's health in tact at the same time.



Because I like the toys and why do they get to decide for me? Just because they are afraid of their child getting fat because they aren't able to say no when their brat is yelling and screaming for a happy meal?


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## TraciJo67 (May 5, 2010)

Vespertine said:


> I am not making it too complicated. I'm pointing out how the monopolization goes quite deep and is supported by our policies. You think I'm the only genius to come up with a healthy fast food drive thru? I mean, its an obvious market. *Jack in the Box accepts Food Stamps now, and McD's has in the past.*
> 
> 
> 
> It is a travesty if you have any idea of how competitive business should work.


 
You have to be eligible for the federal "Restaurant Meal Program" in order for your EBT card to be programmed for a swipe at the drive-through. Only people who are elderly (60+), disabled (receiving SSI or RSDI disability) or homeless (no access to a kitchen to purchase and prepare food) can purchase at a fast food restaurant. So it's a special provision, not something that's going to be available to everyone who gets food support.


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## superodalisque (May 5, 2010)

TraciJo67 said:


> You have to be eligible for the federal "Restaurant Meal Program" in order for your EBT card to be programmed for a swipe at the drive-through. Only people who are elderly (60+), disabled (receiving SSI or RSDI disability) or homeless (no access to a kitchen to purchase and prepare food) can purchase at a fast food restaurant. So it's a special provision, not something that's going to be available to everyone who gets food support.



this makes me feel even sorrier for the poor people who really need it that there isn't better stuff available


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## TraciJo67 (May 5, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> this makes me feel even sorrier for the poor people who really need it that there isn't better stuff available


 
I didn't even believe it at first, SuperO -- I looked under the government's thrifty food program and saw the restaurant meals allowances. Believe it or not, there is an extensive list of restaurants, and not all of them are of the junky junk variety (in other words, I'd go there ). El Pollo Loco, M&M Soul Food, California Steak & Fries, Denny's (decent breakfasts), lots of independent ma & pa establishments, and the usual suspects: Subway, Dominos, Papa Johns, Jack in the Box. 

To the best of my knowledge, this program isn't offered in all 50 states. I'm fairly certain that it isn't offered here in Minnesota. I wish it was -- it makes sense to allow the homeless or those who would have a lot of difficulty with purchasing and preparing food of their own to buy the cheapest possible alternatives -- certainly, it's better than starving


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## Tracyarts (May 5, 2010)

" I'm a little aghast. You'd rather consume chicken treated with bha and other suspected carcinogens than take a chance of getting salmonella? "

Me personally? 

I'm not a germaphobe. And ever since the movie "Food Inc." freaked the bejeezus out of me, I stay as far away from processed and factory farmed food as I can. 

But I know several people who will not prepare raw meat in their kitchen because they are either so afraid of germs that they can't bring themselves to handle it, or because they are completely squicked out by the fact that it's dead animal flesh. And since they're not interested in going veg, they rely on processed convenience meat products so that they can just tip it into a pot or pan from the sterile plastic package without having to touch it or see any blood. 

Tracy


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## stldpn (May 5, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> So i guess you work someplace that does not have refrigerators? Like where, the same rock quarry as Fred Flinstone? And i'll just save us both time and assume you don't have access to a cold pack sort of thing that you keep in the freezer overnight and just pack with your dinner to keep it cold.
> 
> The bottom line is if fast food places can't provide you with a dinner to suit your needs, you take responsibility for yourself. It "stinks"? Cry me a river. You live in the US and you have a job that pays you enough to buy food; that puts you way the heck ahead of a lot of people on this planet. Your diabetes is causing problems because you're not taking care of yourself, not because McDonalds isn't doing its part to cater to your dietary needs
> 
> And let's just also throw out the obvious which is that fast food really is not good for anyone. Not children, not diabetics, not anyone with high blood pressure or celiac. The brown paper bag industry has survived this long because people pack their own food to go to work.



I work in a technical college. We're lucky to have a coffee pot and a vending machine. Do you have diabetes? If not let me attempt to put it in terms that might be more familiar to you.

Would you say it's fair to tell anyone who is fat that they're fat because they simply don't take care of themselves? Is it fair to tell people that it's "only a matter of willpower" to lose weight?

Maybe reality is not so cut and dry, yes, we can make choices. But sometimes, when you make the choice to work, it means that being healthy is just that much harder. I personally don't have diabetes because I "didn't take care of myself" I have it because I inherited it genetically.


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## stldpn (May 5, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> Oh, because your original statement had everything to do with a happy meal, right? Oh wait... unless you're like ten, I don't think you're buying those anymore. And I'd never do you any favors.... by the way.
> 
> And like the majority of people who have a brain here have stated, McDonald's isn't meant to be eaten every day. If you are going to be eating it every day, you should damn well know what you are doing to yourself. And if you are subjecting your children to a $4.00 happy meal every day because you can't cook the poor kid a dinner, then there's another serious issue as well. I don't think anyone at McDonald's corporate would condone someone eating so much McDonald's as to worsen their diabetes or make them obese. They are a business. They make hamburgers because people like to eat them. If your doctor is saying no hamburgers/fast food, then maybe you should be doing yourself a favor and follow their advice. If you cared so much about what you ate, you would have found a way to "safely" pack one by now.



I seriously did not say I eat mickey d's every day. I stated that four days out of the week it is a latent temptation and that recently I'd indulged it. I never said how much only that the few trips I've made have completely fucked up my blood sugar. Now everyone has made so many assumptions about what was said that it's become pointless to try to correct those of you that only read the things that aren't between the lines.


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## LoveBHMS (May 5, 2010)

stldpn said:


> I work in a technical college. We're lucky to have a coffee pot and a vending machine. Do you have diabetes? If not let me attempt to put it in terms that might be more familiar to you.
> 
> Would you say it's fair to tell anyone who is fat that they're fat because they simply don't take care of themselves? Is it fair to tell people that it's "only a matter of willpower" to lose weight?
> 
> Maybe reality is not so cut and dry, yes, we can make choices. *But sometimes, when you make the choice to work, it means that being healthy is just that much harder. *I personally don't have diabetes because I "didn't take care of myself" I have it because I inherited it genetically.



When you make the choice to work? I had no idea working was a choice. For the vast majority of us it's a _necessity_. To suggest that working for a living is such an outsized hardship that you can't possibly go grocery shopping and fix yourself a sandwich in the morning is just ridiculous.

This argument has nothing to do with weight loss and nothing to do with fat. When you claim that being single and having a job is some sort of impediment to your health, people are going to call you out on it. You were not talking about being fat, you were talking about your diabetes having problems. When a problem can be solved by taking the time to go grocery shopping and buying a salad bar takeout or pre-sliced deli meat and a loaf of bread and you dont' want to do that, you're going to be called out. This isn't like somebody lambasting you for not eating a raw food diet or working out five hours a day. Some of us have simply pointed out that depending on McDonalds to meet your nutritional needs isn't a good idea that for minimal cost and effort you can feed yourself.


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## stldpn (May 5, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> When you make the choice to work? I had no idea working was a choice. For the vast majority of us it's a _necessity_. To suggest that working for a living is such an outsized hardship that you can't possibly go grocery shopping and fix yourself a sandwich in the morning is just ridiculous.
> 
> This argument has nothing to do with weight loss and nothing to do with fat. When you claim that being single and having a job is some sort of impediment to your health, people are going to call you out on it. You were not talking about being fat, you were talking about your diabetes having problems. When a problem can be solved by taking the time to go grocery shopping and buying a salad bar takeout or pre-sliced deli meat and a loaf of bread and you dont' want to do that, you're going to be called out. This isn't like somebody lambasting you for not eating a raw food diet or working out five hours a day. Some of us have simply pointed out that depending on McDonalds to meet your nutritional needs isn't a good idea that for minimal cost and effort you can feed yourself.



According to you, everything is a choice. It's so simple to choose to go to the store on an off day, and choose to make a sandwich in my obviously ample free time. By that rationale, being fat is also a simple choice. Because, fat people/diabetics/ and everyone else only need to choose to eat diets and form habits that promote their goals according to people who believe everything is determined by free will and personal responsibility. It's all a choice. 

You've been sitting there, judging me, for not making this simple little choice that you think is the right one. And I've told you over and over again, it's just not as simple for me as it apparently is for you. In a world where you adopt the rationale that everything is a matter of choice, even work is a choice. Never mind the fact that sometimes you feel the need to take that which is offered. You always have the option of going home and waiting for unemployment checks and foreclosure, or starting your own business. Nevermind that those latter choices aren't ones that work for everyone because for you it's simple, it's all about taking responsibility for your choices. 

If you don't like your job, you can choose not to go, but you don't like the idea of being unemployed, or self employed, so you choose to work the job you have in front of you, right? You do it because the alternatives aren't appealing. Myself, I don't like the choices I face when I go into a restaurant at 10pm looking for something simple to eat.

I've made the choice to work and having done so I have to make choices about how I arrange for my meals. I can either go home hungry (that sucks) prepare my own meal at 10:30 PM (which I don't like to do because after ten hours I'm kinda tired) or go somewhere to eat. It's all a choice right?

I don't depend on fast food all the time, but when it's better than going hungry or eating a granola bar and coffee for dinner I've sucked it up and done it. And having done it and felt the consequences, I simply pointed out that their menu fucking sucks and offers no truly healthy choice. See how simple that choice is?


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## LoveBHMS (May 6, 2010)

> yes, this is the typical american attitude, and this is also why our diets are so narrow and basically bad. its why we are so sickly when compared to the rest of the 1st world. it sounds like corporate justification for selling things that basically add to the chronic illness and mortality rate. i really respect a lot of European countries and the way that society there has jointly decided to be responsible for each other as it regards food, health, education etc... thats what society is for--a shared responsibility. otherwise people would just be running around lawlessly and with no conscience regarding other people or the order that that care creates. then having society at all would be a pointless exercise.
> 
> when people talk about the problems in this country it can all be pointed back at the lack of will we have to be as responsible as we should be to provide for the best case in society.



i'm not sure what you're calling the "typical attitude", but at some point, yes, personal responsibility is going to come into play. In the past ten years or so, i've seen an increase in supermarket's hours, an increase in offerings of prepared foods, an increase in offerings of convenience food in supermarkets like presliced apples and carrot sticks, and the advent of self scanner checkouts so customers can get through the cashier line more quickly. While it's not perfect, many companies are provided such products as "Healthy Choice" prepared foods with lower fat and sodium. McDonalds does have salads and sliced veggies, Taco Bell does have the Fresco menu, and even Starbucks has lower fat muffins and whole grain bagels. It seems like no matter what, some people are never going to accept responsibility for their own behaviour and cast about for some way to blame society or big business or corporations.


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## Vespertine (May 6, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> i'm not sure what you're calling the "typical attitude", but at some point, yes, personal responsibility is going to come into play. In the past ten years or so, i've seen an increase in supermarket's hours, an increase in offerings of prepared foods, an increase in offerings of convenience food in supermarkets like presliced apples and carrot sticks, and the advent of self scanner checkouts so customers can get through the cashier line more quickly. While it's not perfect, many companies are provided such products as "Healthy Choice" prepared foods with lower fat and sodium. McDonalds does have salads and sliced veggies, Taco Bell does have the Fresco menu, and even Starbucks has lower fat muffins and whole grain bagels. It seems like no matter what, some people are never going to accept responsibility for their own behaviour and cast about for some way to blame society or big business or corporations.



What about government accepting its responsibility to enforce anti-trust laws? I'm saying there are plenty of small businesses that want to fill the need for a true healthy alternative, but they cannot get a foothold in. Honestly I'm sorry for you if you can accept what you have without imagining how it could be so much dang better. I wanted to serve you vegan/veg meal options from my drive thru, I wanted to franchise and go big, too. _But it will never happen_ at this rate. I think its nuts to blame a person relentlessly like this and totally ignore how our 'competitive business' economic model has broken down in the prep-food industry.



superodalisque said:


> thats what society is for--a shared responsibility. otherwise people would just be running around lawlessly and with no conscience regarding other people or the order that that care creates. then having society at all would be a pointless exercise.



I'm frankly bewildered at American attitudes. There's like an undercurrent of hostility, where everyone else is a weirdo out to get you and everyone's on their own. Just suck it up and deal with the collective nightmare of our situation like we have no control over it. It's bizarre!


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## ashmamma84 (May 9, 2010)

Something interesting I found re: access to healthier foods in Chicago. I'm hoping other cities have (or will in the near future) caught on.

Food Stamp Farmer's Markets

http://uspoverty.change.org/blog/view/farmers_markets_to_accept_food_stamps_in_chicago


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## msbard90 (May 11, 2010)

ashmamma84 said:


> Something interesting I found re: access to healthier foods in Chicago. I'm hoping other cities have (or will in the near future) caught on.
> 
> Food Stamp Farmer's Markets
> 
> http://uspoverty.change.org/blog/view/farmers_markets_to_accept_food_stamps_in_chicago



That's awesome! I was surprised to find that they don't do that everywhere in the US, actually. I knew that we do that in CT, as well as give low income mothers extra vouchers for the farmers market. Pretty neat stuff.


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## superodalisque (May 12, 2010)

Vespertine said:


> What about government accepting its responsibility to enforce anti-trust laws? I'm saying there are plenty of small businesses that want to fill the need for a true healthy alternative, but they cannot get a foothold in. Honestly I'm sorry for you if you can accept what you have without imagining how it could be so much dang better. I wanted to serve you vegan/veg meal options from my drive thru, I wanted to franchise and go big, too. _But it will never happen_ at this rate. I think its nuts to blame a person relentlessly like this and totally ignore how our 'competitive business' economic model has broken down in the prep-food industry.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm frankly bewildered at American attitudes. There's like an undercurrent of hostility, where everyone else is a weirdo out to get you and everyone's on their own. Just suck it up and deal with the collective nightmare of our situation like we have no control over it. It's bizarre!





it is! its almost totally due to sitting alone in the dark looking at a screen projecting things that manipulate us instead of actually getting out and living. we are solid proof that the studies are right. too much t.v. and too many video games desensitize you. we expose ourselves to every negative overt and subliminal message there is. typical statement "life is shit" "the world is shit" "so buy my shit". people here have no real life. just a virtual one. people never get out into the sun and are too afraid to touch real people. they become dark depressed morose paranoid hopeless and defeatist just like the corporations want us. so we feel too powerless to actually press for anything that would actually improve the quality of our lives. we don't think they can be improved. 

View attachment maurizio-cattelan_05.jpg


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## superodalisque (May 12, 2010)

ashmamma84 said:


> Something interesting I found re: access to healthier foods in Chicago. I'm hoping other cities have (or will in the near future) caught on.
> 
> Food Stamp Farmer's Markets
> 
> http://uspoverty.change.org/blog/view/farmers_markets_to_accept_food_stamps_in_chicago



they were talking about spreading this. it was one of the main focuses during the hearings on childhood obesity. the actual goals they've set seem to be much less about castigating fat folk than just giving everyone overall access to cheap healthy food and safe parks etc... to play in. i'm really pleased so far that they don't seem to want to do anything specifically to fat kids except create an environment where they at least have choice. i'm all for fat choice but not fat traps for children.


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## verucassault (May 12, 2010)

Tau said:


> Why are people so afraid of letting parents be parents??? It's a parents job to monitor what their child eats, what kind of calories they take in, whether they get a happy meal or not. .



well i dont know how it is where you are, but many parents are not parents at all. i really dont know many proactive parents who dont allow the television and playstation to raise their children.


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## trucrimsongold (Oct 9, 2010)

None of it matters. The government needs to back off, that is the problem today and why so many changes are truly going to occur is governments over stepping it's boundaries thinking they should be the one's who decide for us what is best. We have already forfeited too many freedoms. Food will not be one of them. I can't wait to after November.


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## louisaml (Oct 19, 2010)

KHayes666 said:


> I said it once and I'll say it a thousand times, kids today aren't fat because of places like McDonalds, kids today are fat because they don't get any exercise and parents are too lazy to make them.
> 
> McDonalds and other fast food chains have been around for over 50 years so how are only today's generation of kids fat? Maybe its because children don't have to go outside anymore to socialize with others. Thanks to the wonders of the internet and online video games, kids don't have to leave the house to keep up with their schoolmates and the outside world.
> 
> ...



I totally agree. I was overweight as a kid. I did play sports but my mom demanded I sit on the bench cause i was delicate. I didn't get to play with kids in the neighborhood because my mom was rude to their parents. I read a book instead of play during recess because I was bigger then the other kids and had shorter hair. All of this caused me to get beat up on a daily basis from grades 1-11. I was very fit my junior year of highschool cause I did Yoga, Pilates, Weight Training, and Soccer. I was toned and around 140. Yet this wasnt good enough for the girls at school. They were jelous my boobs were a 40 D since I was in the 5th grade.:happy: My mom also cooked alot of crap from scratch. It tasted good but it was still crap. When my dad cooked it was always prepackaged frozen food. I was different with my daughter, I gave her healthy things like yogurt, lean deli meats and cheese, and lots of fruits and veggies. Also when I have her I let her play till she is ready to drop. She also has several food allergies like alot of kids today, so most parents figure if it doesnt have the allergens then its good for them even if its crap. I never went to a public school so I never had vending machines.


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## KHayes666 (Oct 20, 2010)

louisaml said:


> I totally agree. I was overweight as a kid. I did play sports but my mom demanded I sit on the bench cause i was delicate. I didn't get to play with kids in the neighborhood because my mom was rude to their parents. I read a book instead of play during recess because I was bigger then the other kids and had shorter hair. All of this caused me to get beat up on a daily basis from grades 1-11. I was very fit my junior year of highschool cause I did Yoga, Pilates, Weight Training, and Soccer. I was toned and around 140. Yet this wasnt good enough for the girls at school. They were jelous my boobs were a 40 D since I was in the 5th grade.:happy: My mom also cooked alot of crap from scratch. It tasted good but it was still crap. When my dad cooked it was always prepackaged frozen food. I was different with my daughter, I gave her healthy things like yogurt, lean deli meats and cheese, and lots of fruits and veggies. Also when I have her I let her play till she is ready to drop. She also has several food allergies like alot of kids today, so most parents figure if it doesnt have the allergens then its good for them even if its crap. I never went to a public school so I never had vending machines.



One thing I like to add that I thought about since I posted that. Video Games themselves weren't always what they are now.

Back in 1992 in the era of Super Nintendo, unless they were multiplayer sports titles games rarely lasted more than a few hours. A kid could play a game at lunchtime, beat it, and still be out with friends by mid-afternoon in time to play ball. Also, even with multiplayer there was no online gaming so if you wanted to play with someone else you actually had to be friends with someone in order to get them to come over and play.

Its a different world now. Games are days long, it takes a few hours just to beat a single level or mission. With the way online is now you don't ever have to see a living soul the rest of your life and you'll still have endless players on the internet to game with. Kids don't have to make friends anymore to have fun. Parents that have to deal with yelling and screaming kids and are too paranoid about ghastly neighbors will gladly let the tv and PS3 raise their kids and keep them in the house so no "predators" can get them. 

There is no "obesity epidemic" its more like "bad parenting epidemic". 

You're a great mother for limiting what your children eat and let them run around and play, unfortunately so many other parents aren't like that.


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