# Are BHMs fragile flowers on the edge of emotional collapse?



## Carl1h (May 4, 2008)

If they are I don't really see it here. Sure there are dramatic posts saying, "no one appreciates me and I am never coming back!" But I don't think those represent the majority of BHMs here. Some guys find this forum and feel like they just found a sign that says free candy. Then they get upset because they aren't getting any candy (nudge, nudge, wink, wink... _candy_, he said knowingly). There isn't really a sign that says free candy, though and if I can over use that analogy a little longer I could say that the candy doesn't usually like the implication that it should be free. So feelings are hurt and emotions get out of control and sometimes a BHM goes home crying and other times they learn something and stick around and occasionally some even get some candy. I don't think that the ones that go home crying are the majority though.

What I can't see directly, though, are the private conversations between BHMs and FFAs and this seems to be where most of the perception that BHMs are emotional wrecks is coming from. Now, we all open up a little emotionally in a relationship, don't we? Isn't that what _intimacy_ is all about? So we have to be talking about something beyond the standard sort of complaint about something like total strangers coming up to talk to you about dieting, we're talking about real emotional fragility.

So, what about it guys and gals, are BHMs a bunch of fragile flowers on the verge of emotional collapse?


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## Tychondarova (May 4, 2008)

Yeah, I think that we notice the ones who are fragile and go all weird on us at the slightest provocation, instead of the majority of BHMs who are stable people.

You know, it never really occured to me to use Dimensions as a daing site. Like, I always thought of it as a place for people to come and talk about the things we share interests in, and share photos and stuff, but not as a place to coordinate hook-ups or anything.

I think people in general are "fragile flowers on the edge of emotional collapse", not just BHMs.

-Ty


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## William (May 4, 2008)

Hi 

Just a reminder that we guys as a whole are not that sturdy anyway, when you remember that we account for most of the people in prison and in Alcohol & Drug Rehabs. Also we are also falling behind in academics.

We still can carry heavy stuff 

William






Tychondarova said:


> Yeah, I think that we notice the ones who are fragile and go all weird on us at the slightest provocation, instead of the majority of BHMs who are stable people.
> 
> You know, it never really occured to me to use Dimensions as a daing site. Like, I always thought of it as a place for people to come and talk about the things we share interests in, and share photos and stuff, but not as a place to coordinate hook-ups or anything.
> 
> ...


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## Nerdzilla (May 4, 2008)

To a degree, like all fat folks, we are emotionally scarred. There are the few and proud who have gotten over this or perhaps (less likely) never experienced any trauma from it.

To my mind you have to expect a lot of the time that new users will need support and encouragement. Because that's what they're coming here for - affirmation that we're not abnormal the way we are, that other like the way we are, and we can like it too!

Now, I'm not saying kid gloves for every new poster but from my lurking and posting here I don't think the general flavour of the forum is perhaps as welcoming or as useful to that purpose as I would have hoped.

The recent set up of other sites and more specifically tailored communities I think shows that in some ways Dims is not catering to that more emotional need of the BHM admirer dynamic.

We DON'T fit in in the rest of the forums. Not that its not relevant, but because we get lost in the crowd. Where I've seen threads moved out of here to other locations I've sighed - because then I find it hard as to what MY peers think about things.

Sorry, turned a bit ranty here.

In summary: yes, we can be, and more consideration for that should be shown.


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## Carl1h (May 4, 2008)

I like to think that women just haven't broken the glass ceiling keeping most of them out of the drug rehabs and prisons. 



William said:


> Hi
> 
> Just a reminder that we guys as a whole are not that sturdy anyway, when you remember that we account for most of the people in prison and in Alcohol & Drug Rehabs. Also we are also falling behind in academics.
> 
> William


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## Windom Earle (May 4, 2008)

I just happen to work in the Mental Health component of Californian's largest Substance Abuse program and I sure see quite a few women around our building in the Outpatient program, seeking treatment for both mental health and substance abuse problems...I understand that our in-prison programs at Women's Prisons in the Great State of California are stuffed to the gills and while there are not as many women clients as men clients overall, part of that is the traditional and historical stigma about women seeking treatment for behavioral health issues in general...that is all changing, as are most gender-related roles and stressors in our Society. What we do find is that individuals; across any gender differences, do experience trauma and compensate in many individual ways. I refuse to get into any gender-specific argument about this, because it is _individuals_ that we are talking about and not whole genders, although two of our best-practice models, "Dialectial Behavioral Therapy" and "Seeking Safety" were originally designed for women with Borderline Personality Disorder and Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, respectively. They are now used for male, female, transsexual and intersexual individuals across the board...that tells you something right there! 
The new models are coming out on a community and peer support structure, like "The Village", down in Los Angeles...individuals with all kinds of disparate backgrounds and specific needs, helping each other to find practical cognitive solutions to their problems in a group, with professional clinicians in the background as team members, not the "stars" of the show...the World is changing and my best respose to BHM-specific problems has been for peer to peer support on the basis of unique individuals helping each other through rough spots for the good of the whole community. That, I can stand by! Does it actually happen here at Dims? I worked much better in a face-to-face setting at a NAAFA regional convention when I was doing a workshop...part of the support seems to get lost in the electron fog or something! Still, it is the model I have supported here for years and I will continue to back it. :bow:






Carl1h said:


> I like to think that women just haven't broken the glass ceiling keeping most of them out of the drug rehabs and prisons.


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## Ninja Glutton (May 4, 2008)

I believe lifetimes of rejection and ostracization (even among people we consider "friends") has rendered many of us insecure husks of people. It's not only societal pressure, but internal pressure as well. 

You look at people and you're jealous and envious of their slender bodies and ability to appear attractive to the public eye. Culture reinforces these ideas and you're left with a really deep-rooted outsider feeling. Almost like you operate solely on the outskirts of the world and that you will never be fully accepted or appreciated among people.

No matter how many times you try to tell yourself that it doesn't matter what people say or think about you, it affects you significantly.

At least in my case, I came here for acceptance both socially and romantically. Sure, the first year of my time here has been marred by my obsession with finding a female, but I feel like I've added to discussions and tried my damnedest to make friends/further ideas to the best of my abilities.

I don't know. Sometimes I feel like some people here preach understanding and acceptance, but they make this place so divisive by taking potshots at people in posts. They don't mention names, but you can discern who they're talking about by the vague descriptions they give. I've never personally attacked someone here, and I never would, but I resent the air of supposed "maturity" that some people claim while their criticisms and rude comments prove the exact opposite.

As I said many, many times before: I did not ask for my username to be deleted because I "found someone." That's retarded. It was a question of time allocation and an attempt to protect myself from people who could use information/pictures I posted here negatively. I don't really find that immature or offensive to this community. 

I mean, honestly, I respond to almost every intelligent thread in this place and try to get in on the discussion.

Sorry about the offtopic rant thrown in there, but that bothers me.

Anyway, no, I don't find that BHMs are always on the verge of emotional collapse. There's up days and down days. I think that holds true for everyone ... fat or skinny. I mean, hell, it's not like insecurities and emotional distress are limited only to the fat community. It's just that society likes to make fat people the scapegoats, and doctors and professionals back them up on this. It's disheartening and unnecessary, but many things in life are. I just keep on trucking and trying to remember the good things that bring me happiness and a sense of belonging. However rare that feeling is, the fact that it's there does much to improve my morale about life in general.


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## PolarKat (May 4, 2008)

I'm going to veer a bit to bring in part of the discussion that Olwen was having in the other thread as well.

I'm quite far from any emotional collapse.. even in the worst of time's I've been nowhere near there, but like others have said you have your good and bad days.. It's the same as with anything else, like financial problems etc..

those the "go home crying".. I don't think it has anything to do with being a BHM, I think it's just character in general. If a women rejected my advances, I wouldn't even blink, or flinch.. I've been there ad nauseam. As a fat guy there are behaviors that I've learned that might come off as "Fragile", or better put as non-confident.
I don't flirt or try to pick up complete strangers, as much as I enjoy putting my hand in a fire, eventually you learn that you get burned.. So you don't repeat this process. It's quite the inverse, if you continue to put your hand in the fire, then you do have mental issues. Trial and error has taught me, that after I get to know someone the 100% rejection rate will start to fall, leaving me an opening. Women who are used to the "confident" male approach, would infer my behaviour as non-confident.. FFA's would probably interpret this even more so, since the pattern I've used is an attempt to sell other features, when they are expecting the "normal" behavior, since they're interested in the feature I'm not putting out on the showroom floor. Like i said before FFA's don't exist in real life, so why would I change my approach.
You could sum this rationale up for any of the percieved BHM fragilities, in as much as an FFA likes moobs, they aren't going to be swinging free in the air anytime soon.. 99.9% of the population have deemed them as evil as a hump or hairy back.. it's not a lack of confidence that keeps me hiding them, it's simply that I don't have the urge to be heckled..


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## ntwp (May 4, 2008)

Can I just say that after reading what's been posted so far I feel like I'm learning so much. I love hearing the guys' perspectives on this and I hope more contribute.


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## olwen (May 5, 2008)

ntwp said:


> Can I just say that after reading what's been posted so far I feel like I'm learning so much. I love hearing the guys' perspectives on this and I hope more contribute.



I too am learning and I hope they post more too. I'm just struck by how similar our experiences are and surprised by my surprise. I really had a duh moment. 
Seems obvious now. 

I've read some of the posts and almost cried because I could see myself in them. It's honestly not something I've thought much about since I've never really talked to a BHM about these things. Please guys keep posting.


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## Dr. P Marshall (May 5, 2008)

But all of you posters, consider yourselves repped. I'll try to catch up later. 

The usually verbose Dr. P is going to just say that I really want to hear more from the BHM on this issue (and other issues), so I will respectfully sit back and "listen" and thank you all for sharing your thoughts with the board. :bow:


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## cammy (May 5, 2008)

I have to agree that most people, inclusive of BHMs, are fragile on some level. We all have emotional baggage that never quite gets completely emptied - mostly, we put the bag on a top shelf and leave it there out of sight, but not out of mind. Who's to say that any one issue is more devastating than another, for one person or another? Not every one experiences and/or processes circumstances, situations and events, regardless of the nature, in the same manner.


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## Zandoz (May 5, 2008)

Hmmm....Are BHMs fragile flowers on the edge of emotional collapse. Some ways yes...some ways no.

Fragile compared to what? Any person substantially greater in size than "normal", just as a matter of existence day to day, pretty much has to have a substantially higher level of tolerance for the crap life throws at us. We not only get the typical life crap, we get the size related crap. But for the most part, we carry on.

On the edge of emotional collapse? Sometimes yes...sometimes no...in general, no more likely than anyone else having to deal with a lot of crap in their life.

In the end, I don't really see it as a BHM thing....it's a people of size thing.


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## topher38 (May 5, 2008)

well I have to say I have never been anywhere near emotional collapse. even when I had to have brain surgery. yes thats whats wrong with me.. but as for people judging me on looks heck I don't sweat that. I have family, friends who love me. so as for being a fragile flower nope..... more of a hard to break weed
Topher


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## stefanie (May 6, 2008)

PolarKat said:


> Like i said before FFA's don't exist in real life, so why would I change my approach.



Hi, PolarKat. I'm not sure what you mean by this ... FFAs don't exist in real life? :checks self; still exists ...:

If you are looking for FFAs who are single, that's another qualifying factor. However, perhaps it's not that there are "no" FFAs IRL; perhaps it's that many FFAs get "taken" very quickly? Or are already in established /long-term relationships? Or are single but not looking at the moment? Or are perhaps 10, 20 years older (or more)? Anyway, I do hope you find what you are looking for.

Re: confidence. To me, "confidence" doesn't have much to do with picking up strangers. As I see it, confidence shines out when a person is truly "centered" in their life, whatever they're doing. It doesn't come from a certain job, or having money, or being seen as conventionally "hot" (even w/in fat admiration circles.) Confidence, to me, is a product of strong character and of an inner sense of "rightness," of inner peace and "groundedness." 

It's not something that can be bought; it isn't conveyed when one buys a certain product (although advertisers would like us to think so.) In my experience, it comes from mastering difficult things; from dealing with adversity. There is adversity to living as a fat man. While one person cannot "give" another one confidence, OTOH (and this is where the role of this BHM/FFA board comes in), people *can* help one another deal with the various adversities of being a fat man in a fat-hating world, as well as simply enjoying the fat men in their midst (and I am *not* speaking only of sexual attraction here.)


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## PolarKat (May 6, 2008)

stefanie said:


> Hi, PolarKat. I'm not sure what you mean by this ... FFAs don't exist in real life? :checks self; still exists ...:
> 
> If you are looking for FFAs who are single, that's another qualifying factor. However, perhaps it's not that there are "no" FFAs IRL; perhaps it's that many FFAs get "taken" very quickly? Or are already in established /long-term relationships? Or are single but not looking at the moment? Or are perhaps 10, 20 years older (or more)? Anyway, I do hope you find what you are looking for.


People say they see UFO's.. the lockness monster.. I've never seen them myself.. so I have to be a bit skeptical if they exist.. Until I see an FFA and I can apply the scientific method to determine their existance, and exact properties... 
It's just an exaggeration. I never met one physically in my 35 years on this planet.. So placing bets to find one tommorow isn't realistic. It would be like that fellow with the lamp.. can't remeber his name..


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## Mythik (May 6, 2008)

Fragile flower? On the verge of emotional collapse? No, not usually -- though when stressful life events get the better of me, things can get pretty crumbly.

Having grown up fat, and lived most of my life fat, I have had to learn to "roll with the punches" more than my thin compatriots. When I was younger, it was very easy to get down on myself and society whenever I experienced rejection, which was often. Let's face it, we don't live in a very fat-friendly society, and people have a tremendous facility for being cruel and narrow-minded. I don't think I need to expound on all of that -- it's all over these forums.

I think what has saved me more often than not, is having the courage and willingness to take a step back, and to remember that who and what I am is not contingent on anyone else's opinion. I am beautiful, strong, capable, compassionate, and loving, whether others recognize it or not. If my well-being hinged on others' acknowledgement, I'd have shriveled up and died years ago. This attitude has not come easily, though, and sometimes it doesn't come at all. It has taken a lot of practice, and still does. 

And if I have a day where I can share a little joy and compassion with my fellow bruised, broken, and downtrodden humans? Golden. 





PolarKat said:


> It would be like that fellow with the lamp.. can't remeber his name..



That'd be Diogenes.


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## Tad (May 6, 2008)

William said:


> Hi
> 
> We still can carry heavy stuff



Which is good, with the bellies to haul around and all 

On topic, some BHM have had a shortage of stable, healthy, supportive relationships of any sort, and had too many incidents of being mocked, rejected or abused. Anyone who goes through that, for whatever reason--and lots of people have the same issues for non-fat reasons--is apt to carry some emotional and social scars from it. Some people will do pretty well despite those scars, some won't.

I think in general though you'll find BHM have less cockiness than the average guy, because they know there is something visible about them that will get them marked down in most people's assessment automatically. So I don't think you'll find as high a portion of BHM, even amongst those without past scars such as people who gained their weight as adults, who will just take whatever amount of crap and let it roll off them, confident in their own value and studliness.

Just my impressions.


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## olwen (May 6, 2008)

PolarKat said:


> People say they see UFO's.. the lockness monster.. I've never seen them myself.. so I have to be a bit skeptical if they exist.. Until I see an FFA and I can apply the scientific method to determine their existance, and exact properties...
> It's just an exaggeration. I never met one physically in my 35 years on this planet.. So placing bets to find one tommorow isn't realistic. It would be like that fellow with the lamp.. can't remeber his name..



Dude, they exist. You're so used to not seeing them that you aren't seeing them. I would have said the same thing about FA's two years ago. Not today. Open up a little and let go of the negativity. Seriously. I had to do this myself. When I look back and see how negative I used to be because of all the rejection I experienced I'm appalled. My friends all tell me that being more positive is the biggest and most welcome change about me lately. 



edx said:


> Which is good, with the bellies to haul around and all
> 
> *On topic, some BHM have had a shortage of stable, healthy, supportive relationships of any sort, and had too many incidents of being mocked, rejected or abused. Anyone who goes through that, for whatever reason--and lots of people have the same issues for non-fat reasons--is apt to carry some emotional and social scars from it. Some people will do pretty well despite those scars, some won't.*
> 
> ...



I think this is something all fat people go thru. _*All *_of us.


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## PolarKat (May 6, 2008)

missaf said:


> Haven't I told you before if you weren't buried in snow you'd see us FFAs? :bow:



You know.. that might actually be it.. when I look at the location of the FFA's they all tend to be in a warmer climate.. Could it be the FFA's fear or are alergic to the cold?


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## Tad (May 6, 2008)

olwen said:


> I think this is something all fat people go thru. _*All *_of us.



To make a wild guess, I would not be surprised if around a third of the population has had some form of this. Fat. Some other physical feature. Stuttering. A learning disability. Poverty. Being a visible minority in your setting. Family background. Being a real nerd. Having a funny sounding name. Being very short or tall. Sometimes nothing anyone could put a finger on, yet they got harassed for years and years.

The thing is, while so many people go through some variant of this, for some portion of their life, almost by definition it is an individual hell, and I think the very act of realizing it is NOT really about you, and you are not alone in it, starts helping. 

In high school I got into an enriched program. For the first year about half of the class spent our lunch breaks pretty much on our own--we were all used to be the odd strange nerdy one in the schools we'd come from, and we kept to those habits. But in the second year, one nice day I mustered up some nerve and asked one of the other guys if he'd like to toss around a frisbee. He would. The next day we asked another of this type. Within a week we had a dozen guys playing frisbee football every day at lunch and when we had spares. I think all but two of us had glasses, and those two (identical twins) had really bad acne (not that some of the others of us didn't have that too). I'd say half the group were amongst the 'last picks' in gym class for various reasons. But that didn't matter, we had a lot of fun. All of us had been pretty socially isolated at school before that, but it turned out that we were all pretty fun guys, once we got to know ourselves.

It remains one of my favorite things that I did, kicking the first pebble that started all of that in motion. And I think that group made all the members in it stronger, as social networks tend to do.

So yah, fat people go through that, but they aren't the only ones.


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## PolarKat (May 6, 2008)

olwen said:


> Dude, they exist. You're so used to not seeing them that you aren't seeing them. I would have said the same thing about FA's two years ago. Not today. Open up a little and let go of the negativity. Seriously. I had to do this myself. When I look back and see how negative I used to be because of all the rejection I experienced I'm appalled. My friends all tell me that being more positive is the biggest and most welcome change about me lately.
> 
> I think this is something all fat people go thru. _*All *_of us.




I'm a little hard to read on text, I'm actually never 100% serious, unless I have to be, and I don't actually get mad, I always see any argument or debate as simplly 2 sets of views, where one tries to clarify a position to another in order to change an option. I never take anything personally unless it is intended as such... and I can switch views on a dime if need be. And I'm rarely negative.. and I suck at witty humor.. did I mention that?

So that wasn't actually negative.. it was actually mostly humor..with a bit of underlying truth.. like the scientific investigation part.. close examination of an FFA is something I would like to do in my lifetime.. I mean..it's for science and all!

Back to the serious.. The only place I've seen FFA's is here on Dims. Out and "enthusiastic" FA's I personally know a few, but never met any women that "liked the fat men". Maybe it's a regional or social thing that doesn't occur where I live.. Maybe like Missaf was saying.. I can't see them from under the snow.. or they wear camoflauge...


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## olwen (May 6, 2008)

Polarkat, Santa can't give you presents if you block off your chimney. Maybe you're just not letting the FFA's go down your chimney.


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## Zandoz (May 6, 2008)

In general terms, I have to agree with PolarKat...based on personal experience, outside of sightings here on Dimensions, FFAs are mythical creatures. <shrug> And I don't live in the land of ice & snow...LOL


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## olwen (May 6, 2008)

Zandoz, that's what the internet is for!


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## Zandoz (May 6, 2008)

Oh I know full well the potential of the net....that's how I met my wife. LOL My search for the mythical ones is over.

I was just affirming PolarKat's experiences...experiances are by far the norm, rather than the exception for him, myself, and from my observation, the majority of fat guys.


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## olwen (May 6, 2008)

You all should talk more about that.


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## Zandoz (May 6, 2008)

olwen said:


> You all should talk more about that.



I have no clue what else there is to say...or to whom....LOL


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## olwen (May 6, 2008)

You can talk about:

1. how you all feel now about those experiences.
2. what happened specifically - cause really who doesn't love juicy gossip?
3. what you were feeling when you had the experiences
4. compare notes. 

start a thread about it. 

Simple


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## Dr. P Marshall (May 6, 2008)

PolarKat said:


> So that wasn't actually negative.. it was actually mostly humor..with a bit of underlying truth.. like the scientific investigation part.. close examination of an FFA is something I would like to do in my lifetime.. I mean..it's for science and all!



For me personally, I'm just so busy with work, and all the social activities Bigfoot plans for the mythical creatures society and my Space Aliens Living on Earth support group. I just don't get out much socially.  

Seriously, in real life I'VE never met another FFA in person, so I can definitely see how it might seem like we don't exist sometimes. Then again, I don't really talk about what we find "hot" with my female friends, so maybe some of the ones who date bigger guys are FFAs. I think for all of the reasons that have been mentioned on the boards at various times, FFAs often just don't ever bring it up. They just date BHM and most people don't question them about it too much. So maybe we're just used to being more quiet about it in general?


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## Paquito (May 6, 2008)

Again, its more of a person-of-size issue than solely BHM. We all, fat men and fat women, have issues in today's society. Let's face it, we have to work twice as hard to get the recognition of our rail-thin conterparts. It can get hard sometimes, but it helps to be like "f*** society, keep those double chins up. And of course this site is a great confidence builder, gracias Dimensions!

P.S. - true, the sighting of the FFA is rare, but could it also be said that the sighting of a true, confident BHM is rare aswell? Just thought I'd bring another side to that arguement.

P.P.S - Me man. Man no feel emotional collapse. Man no flower. *slumps back to cave*


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## Zandoz (May 6, 2008)

olwen said:


> You can talk about:
> 
> 1. how you all feel now about those experiences.
> 2. what happened specifically - cause really who doesn't love juicy gossip?
> ...



Well, it's kind of difficult to go into any detail about that which never happened. Having never encountered an FFA in real life, what is there to say beyond that?


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## William (May 6, 2008)

Hi 

From my experiences and from what I have heard from other fat men is that many started having their fat affect them socially as early as late Elementary School. For me that was about when I stopped swimming or showering in public.

So it may look to others that my Fat did not affect me because I humg out with the crowd and stuff, but it did. I still do not swim, maybe one day 

Dating was slow in high school, I later realize that there was a couple of FFA in High School. College was better. Maybe because of parties and alcohol.

I have been "best friends" with too many woman in my lifetime and it is hard to tell what they are looking for in you until it is plain to see.

William




olwen said:


> You can talk about:
> 
> 1. how you all feel now about those experiences.
> 2. what happened specifically - cause really who doesn't love juicy gossip?
> ...


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## Mythik (May 6, 2008)

On the "do FFAs exist?" sub-thread:

I have to honestly say that I've only met one FFA in my life (I've probably crossed paths with many more, but I just didn't know it). This woman made it very clear what she was into. So, if there's one out there, it's likely there are a few more. 

However, I have noticed a very interesting phenomenon regarding attraction, dating behavior, and the like. I've dated several women who weren't into big men at all, but they were very attracted to me for who I am, how I think, how I treat them, etc. In other words, they were attracted to me for many other qualities, and in spite of my size.

I've known very few men who are willing to work that same equation when it comes to their choices for dating. I hear men all the time, saying things like: "Yeah, she's pretty cool, and smart, and funny, and a great conversationalist. But she's so fat! No way!" And then they go look for a skinny woman who may or may not be a good match.

I don't claim to know "how it is" with people, but my experience is that, in the dating scene, women are far more willing to look past body image issues than men. IMO, YMMV, etc.


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## Zandoz (May 6, 2008)

Mythik said:


> On the "do FFAs exist?" sub-thread:
> 
> I have to honestly say that I've only met one FFA in my life (I've probably crossed paths with many more, but I just didn't know it). This woman made it very clear what she was into. So, if there's one out there, it's likely there are a few more.
> 
> ...



Yup...my relationship experience is pretty much the same...in spite of my being fat, and not a contributing factor.


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## PolarKat (May 6, 2008)

olwen said:


> Polarkat, Santa can't give you presents if you block off your chimney. Maybe you're just not letting the FFA's go down your chimney.



Crap! that might be it .. at least it explains the lack of presents.. I've got electric heating!!! off to cut a hole in the roof!!!


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## PolarKat (May 6, 2008)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> For me personally, I'm just so busy with work, and all the social activities Bigfoot plans for the mythical creatures society and my Space Aliens Living on Earth support group. I just don't get out much socially.


Now.. I'm dumbfounded.. I've been to a meeting of the "Space aliens living on earth support group".. oh wait.. no.. sorry.. I'm mistaking that for waiting in line for StarWars with my geekier friends.. 



Dr. P Marshall said:


> Seriously, in real life I'VE never met another FFA in person, so I can definitely see how it might seem like we don't exist sometimes. Then again, I don't really talk about what we find "hot" with my female friends, so maybe some of the ones who date bigger guys are FFAs. I think for all of the reasons that have been mentioned on the boards at various times, FFAs often just don't ever bring it up. They just date BHM and most people don't question them about it too much. So maybe we're just used to being more quiet about it in general?



I realize on my part how I could be completely oblivious to their existance.. buried in 3m snow is one of them  (I really gotta change that location it's already 20C here).. I've become kinda immune to signals.. Fat guys to non-FFA's get deported to the "holding area" and then mostly become friends, and on the rare occasion get an out of jail card. So you learn the pattern.. signals.. flirt.. moved to the pound.. charisma +25.. deafeted her evil friend that hates you!! got the dungeon key.. you gained a level!
So even if I did meet an FFA I'd proably wouldn't be the brightest in that scenario.. unless she wore a shirt with "I like fat guys!! you in particular stupid!!"..uhmm.. for a couple days in a row..





MyThink said:


> I don't claim to know "how it is" with people, but my experience is that, in the dating scene, women are far more willing to look past body image issues than men. IMO, YMMV, etc.


If they don't like fat, not going to happen, some people on people just have "other" physical attractions.. some like hands, arms, legs, the shape of the face, eyes etc.. each has a ranking, some don't have fat up there on the list, so it's not much effort to look over the fat thing for them, but it still plays a negative role in the long term when you start to bring in family and friends.


----------



## stefanie (May 6, 2008)

PolarKat said:


> I realize on my part how I could be completely oblivious to their existance.. buried in 3m snow is one of them  (I really gotta change that location it's already 20C here).. I've become kinda immune to signals.. Fat guys to non-FFA's get deported to the "holding area" and then mostly become friends, and on the rare occasion get an out of jail card. So you learn the pattern.. signals.. flirt.. moved to the pound.. charisma +25.. deafeted her evil friend that hates you!! got the dungeon key.. you gained a level!



LOL! Very cute description.



> So even if I did meet an FFA I'd proably wouldn't be the brightest in that scenario.. unless she wore a shirt with "I like fat guys!! you in particular stupid!!"..uhmm.. for a couple days in a row..



I'm not so sure the female world is divided into FFAs/not-FFAs. Like Dr. Marshall said, women often don't come right out and claim it, especially to their women friends. I know that I liked big men *long* before I ever put a name to it. I know, though, that around here there are fat guys with women *all the time.* So somebody is loving the fat guys ... ; )

But yeah, being buried under snow won't help ...


----------



## ntwp (May 6, 2008)

Mythik said:


> On the "do FFAs exist?" sub-thread:
> 
> I've dated several women who weren't into big men at all, but they were very attracted to me for who I am, how I think, how I treat them, etc. In other words, they were attracted to me for many other qualities, and in spite of my size.
> 
> I've known very few men who are willing to work that same equation when it comes to their choices for dating. ....



This sub-thread interests me as well. Also speaking from experience I agree, there are alot more girls willing to "look past" the layer of chub if they aren't particularly attracted to it but have found an otherwise very stable and kind guy. No offense to thin or muscular guys, but alot of my female friends agree that chubby guys are generally less likely to be a-holes. I've had several friends over the years, from high school through college and beyond, who have told me they are into one body type, and then end up with a really genuine guy who is chubby or even fat and they love them very much, without regard to their weight (at least notthat they've expressed to me-- we never know what goes on in private conversation). 


Dr. P Marshall said:


> Then again, I don't really talk about what we find "hot" with my female friends, so maybe some of the ones who date bigger guys are FFAs.


Dr. P. Marshall, I think you may be surprised if you share (perhaps a "watered-down version" at first if you're worried of how they'll treat you) of your FFA-ness with friends, especially those who are with fat significant others. I have been opening up to alot of my friends about this (ranging from "I have always had a little thing for chubby guys" to "Damn, I think my guy is the sexiest guy on the planet, and I adore his body", depending on how close we are). A couple of my aquaintances actually responded with, "OMG I think chubby guys are great" and "Yeah I think my boyfriend is sexy as hell and I have since I first met him" (he's a fat guy). 

One of my friends who has dated both fat and skinny guys told me recently that she definitely prefers bigger guys. She wouldn't have opened up to me if she hadn't already known how attracted I am to big guys. Even though I haven't brought them into the Dimensions circle (I'm never sure that they're nearly as serious as I am about fat admiration), it's still nice to get it out there and check. 

More power to the FFAs and BHM!


----------



## olwen (May 6, 2008)

This is such a quotable page. Multi-quote fun.




Dr. P Marshall said:


> ...Seriously, in real life I'VE never met another FFA in person, so I can definitely see how it might seem like we don't exist sometimes. Then again, I don't really talk about what we find "hot" with my female friends, so maybe some of the ones who date bigger guys are FFAs. I think for all of the reasons that have been mentioned on the boards at various times, FFAs often just don't ever bring it up. They just date BHM and most people don't question them about it too much. So maybe we're just used to being more quiet about it in general?



Exactly. I still think women are just more accepting of big guys because being with big guys is more acceptable in our society, which is evidenced by the many examples in the media of big men with skinny wives/girlfriends. Not so much the other way around. I wish it were. It just seems the other way around to some BHMs because men get to have their sexual desires expressed in many ways and are encouraged to express their fantasies from early on. Your fantasies are reflected in every aspect of life thru many mediums. Women don't get to have the same sexual freedoms.



free2beme04 said:


> Again, its more of a person-of-size issue than solely BHM. We all, fat men and fat women, have issues in today's society. Let's face it, we have to work twice as hard to get the recognition of our rail-thin conterparts. It can get hard sometimes, but it helps to be like "f*** society, keep those double chins up. And of course this site is a great confidence builder, gracias Dimensions!
> 
> P.S. - true, the sighting of the FFA is rare, but could it also be said that the sighting of a true, confident BHM is rare aswell? Just thought I'd bring another side to that arguement.
> 
> P.P.S - Me man. Man no feel emotional collapse. Man no flower. *slumps back to cave*



We as fat people do have to work harder. Working harder also means making with the attitude, and by attitude I mean the "fuck you" attitude that helps to instill confidence in us. Confidence is a _huge _turn on.



Zandoz said:


> Well, it's kind of difficult to go into any detail about that which never happened. Having never encountered an FFA in real life, what is there to say beyond that?



I think it's more than not having something to talk about and I find this to be a very weird guy thing. My guy friends don't bother to tell me about the girls they date until after like four or five dates and months or weeks after they've met. My female friends tell me everything from the first phone call to the first date. Ask me and tell me about all the little details. They share their lives with me. When my guy friends finally tell me about what's going on I'm always angry about it. 

me: "You met her _when_..., and you're telling me this _now_??!!" 
guy friend: "Oh well, I didn't want to talk about it if it didn't work out."
me: "Well, what the fuck are we friends for if you don't tell me what's going on in your life?"
guy friend: shrugs, "We like the same music and beer."
me: "Aaaarrrrgggg." Every effing time.

Yeesh.



William said:


> Hi
> 
> From my experiences and from what I have heard from other fat men is that many started having their fat affect them socially as early as late Elementary School. For me that was about when I stopped swimming or showering in public.
> 
> ...



My fat has always been there too, but I just didn't give a toss about what people thought. I just refuse to let it keep me from living my life. I'd be a miserable wreck right now if I had. I've been the "best friend" too. It sucks. If I thought someone was interested tho, I asked em about it. None of them ever were, but I figured it was better to know than to just wonder about it forever. Then there's the one who got away....when I think back about that guy I realize he was an FA and even tried in his clumsy way to show it. If I knew then what I know now....

If I didn't put on a bathing suit, I wouldn't be allowed in the pool.  Seriously tho. I realized I needed to learn to swim. I was really nervous, no, very anxious about being in that bathing suit. But once I put it on and went out there and saw that nobody flinched I relaxed a little. Then I saw all the other fat people in the pool after I took the aqua workout class. I never gave it another thought.



Mythik said:


> On the "do FFAs exist?" sub-thread:
> 
> I have to honestly say that I've only met one FFA in my life (I've probably crossed paths with many more, but I just didn't know it). This woman made it very clear what she was into. So, if there's one out there, it's likely there are a few more.
> 
> ...



Cause the wimmins are cool like that...



Zandoz said:


> Yup...my relationship experience is pretty much the same...in spite of my being fat, and not a contributing factor.



I'm starting to get what you all mean by "in spite of my fat."



PolarKat said:


> ...I realize on my part how I could be completely oblivious to their existance.. buried in 3m snow is one of them  (I really gotta change that location it's already 20C here).. I've become kinda immune to signals.. Fat guys to non-FFA's get deported to the "holding area" and then mostly become friends, and on the rare occasion get an out of jail card. So you learn the pattern.. signals.. flirt.. moved to the pound.. charisma +25.. deafeted her evil friend that hates you!! got the dungeon key.. you gained a level!
> So even if I did meet an FFA I'd proably wouldn't be the brightest in that scenario.. unless she wore a shirt with "I like fat guys!! you in particular stupid!!"..uhmm.. for a couple days in a row..
> 
> 
> ...



Like I said, confidence is a HUGE turn on. Maybe that's where all the "in spite of" stuff starts to play into it.



stefanie said:


> ...I'm not so sure the female world is divided into FFAs/not-FFAs. Like Dr. Marshall said, women often don't come right out and claim it, especially to their women friends. I know that I liked big men *long* before I ever put a name to it. I know, though, that around here there are fat guys with women *all the time.* So somebody is loving the fat guys ... ; )
> 
> But yeah, being buried under snow won't help ...



See above.

Dude, you gotta get out from under all that snow.


----------



## PolarKat (May 7, 2008)

I think this lurker is starting to get digital sunburn.. 


olwen said:


> This is such a quotable page. Multi-quote fun.
> Exactly. I still think women are just more accepting of big guys because being with big guys is more acceptable in our society, which is evidenced by the many examples in the media of big men with skinny wives/girlfriends. Not so much the other way around. I wish it were.



you have to be careful with this one the "big guy is more acceptable" it's a misconception, in quite a few ways. First you have to define fat.. chubby, yes I'd agree.. 300lb plus.. not really, the whole picture instantly changes.
On TV the fat guy is always there as the idiot baffoon so we can see how he can mess up this week. In real life it's actually the opposite, it's more common to see a fat woman with the thinner S.O. It's just that hollywood seems to have an easier time with the inverse. Jump on a BBW/BHM dating site and take a look as a male and female and see what your search results bring back. it's not scientific but it's a good general consensus. Or even just look here at dims and do a head count.

I made a little remark about a negative role in the long term when it comes to family and friends. I've seen first hand how unacceptable a fat man can be to friends and family. I've seen an S.O brought to tears for the sole reason that she was dating someone fat.. it's something I really never want to see again, but it's also part of the reality




olwen said:


> It just seems the other way around to some BHMs because men get to have their sexual desires expressed in many ways and are encouraged to express their fantasies from early on. Your fantasies are reflected in every aspect of life thru many mediums. Women don't get to have the same sexual freedoms.


The only desire I got to express early on was rather cruel rejection, or being used because the "sucker/easy target" sign over my head. Trust me when I say that teenage girls can be the most evil things. Most of us fat guys, who have been fat from early on have 0 self esteem after those wonderful years in primary school, most of us build up our confidence much later in life, and are actually sexually and emotionally retarded compared to our thinner couterparts. It's something that you can spot in college easily, by then we tend to develop a backbone, and some self esteem, and then start fumbling horribly with the girlfriends.. The other guys can chime in as well I'm sure they've had simmilar experiences.




olwen said:


> Like I said, confidence is a HUGE turn on. Maybe that's where all the "in spite of" stuff starts to play into it.
> 
> See above.
> 
> Dude, you gotta get out from under all that snow.





stefanie said:


> I'm not so sure the female world is divided into FFAs/not-FFAs. Like Dr. Marshall said, women often don't come right out and claim it, especially to their women friends. I know that I liked big men *long* before I ever put a name to it. I know, though, that around here there are fat guys with women *all the time.* So somebody is loving the fat guys ... ; )
> 
> But yeah, being buried under snow won't help ...



I did come out from under the snow, it just hasn't worked quite well yet. It was about two years ago.. If you hunt down old posts you'll probably find it. I decided to stop being the hermit/workaholic and to just go out and smile at every woman I saw, and occasionally just start up random converstaions. It was quite hard in the begining, but I'm doing it out of instinct now. I've gone out for the occasional coffee or lunch with some of the people I've met but nothing has come of it. It's actually fun to see the reaction people have when a total stranger starts a converstation.


----------



## olwen (May 7, 2008)

PolarKat said:


> I think this lurker is starting to get digital sunburn..
> 
> 
> *you have to be careful with this one the "big guy is more acceptable" it's a misconception, in quite a few ways. First you have to define fat.. chubby, yes I'd agree.. 300lb plus.. not really, the whole picture instantly changes.
> ...



You make really good points here. I'm glad you explained it that way. Since I've never known any BHMs in my life who were bigger than me I've never witnessed this. The majority of the fat people (my size or bigger even when I was at my biggest) I've known in my life have all been women. And now I can't believe I never thought about it from a BHMs point of view with such clarity. For all our gender differences, we are still fat after all.

I'm going to remember this. Thanks.


----------



## William (May 7, 2008)

Hi Stefanie

For women that like big guys the divide may not be that great (like FAs) and it may not even be noticeable to them that it exists. But is does exist and far more women reject fat guys than accept them.

You could use the current "Hot Boy" thread here at Dimensions as statistical evidence 

William




stefanie said:


> LOL! Very cute description.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## stefanie (May 7, 2008)

William said:


> Hi Stefanie
> 
> For women that like big guys the divide may not be that great (like FAs) and it may not even be noticeable to them that it exists. But is does exist and far more women reject fat guys than accept them.
> 
> ...



I will take your word for it, as I've never been a big guy looking for dates! ; ) 

I think I might have looked at the "hot boy" thread awhile back; maybe it needs another peek.

*ETA*: Dude. I peeked. I can see where that thread might be a self-confidence killer for fat guys. I am not intending to criticize the thread - everyone has their own taste - but it's so obviously not mine. Those guys pictured do nothing for me ...


----------



## Zandoz (May 7, 2008)

olwen said:


> Exactly. I still think women are just more accepting of big guys because being with big guys is more acceptable in our society, which is evidenced by the many examples in the media of big men with skinny wives/girlfriends. Not so much the other way around. I wish it were.



I really think this popular line of thought is a myth...I don't think either gender has it better or worse when it comes to society's view of fat acceptability. In general I think it's pretty much a common human trait to think that "our team" gets a raw deal more often, when in reality it is more about the natural tendency to notice the bad stuff that hits home more than it is to notice the stuff hitting elsewhere. <shrug>



olwen said:


> It just seems the other way around to some BHMs because men get to have their sexual desires expressed in many ways and are encouraged to express their fantasies from early on. Your fantasies are reflected in every aspect of life thru many mediums. Women don't get to have the same sexual freedoms.



Actually, in terms of society's acceptance of sexual expression, BHMs are probably closer to those of women in general than those of men in general in the net effect. There is virtually no general encouragement or acceptance of any kind of expression of sexuality for a fat guy...outside of those mythical FFAs. The underlying reasons for unacceptability may be different, but it's still unacceptable. For a fat guy, 99.99% of the time, any kind of expression of sexuality is going to either invoke an "Ewwwwww" kind of response or laughter. The reason you see big guys "in the media" is almost universally for comedy fodder.



olwen said:


> I think it's more than not having something to talk about and I find this to be a very weird guy thing. My guy friends don't bother to tell me about the girls they date until after like four or five dates and months or weeks after they've met. My female friends tell me everything from the first phone call to the first date. Ask me and tell me about all the little details. They share their lives with me. When my guy friends finally tell me about what's going on I'm always angry about it.
> 
> me: "You met her _when_..., and you're telling me this _now_??!!"
> guy friend: "Oh well, I didn't want to talk about it if it didn't work out."
> ...



Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. At least for me there really is nothing for me to say about any kind of experience with FFAs, because there has been no experience to talk about. As far as talking about life experiences in general, my life has been so outside the norm in about every way, that any discussion would lend no insight to the general state of things.


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## Carl1h (May 7, 2008)

William said:


> You could use the current "Hot Boy" thread here at Dimensions as statistical evidence
> 
> William



Wow. I hadn't noticed that thread.

The statistical evidence of that thread:

1017 (that's one thousand and seventeen) posts.

51 pages.

Ten posts with pictures of fat guys. Ten.

That's one in one hundred. And these are not even real fat guys, these are Hollywood fat guys. There wasn't even a token pic of any one who would be considered large on this board.

A quick search on google gave me the statistic that that almost 20% of Americans are obese. But only 1% of the guys on that thread are obese.

Ok, it's in the Lounge and that says it's for off topic stuff, and I guess if the topic is size acceptance, then a thread that shows how much they love the skinny guys falls into the off topic category. But is there a thread anywhere around there full of pictures of skinny women? A thread of over a thousand posts dedicated to pictures of skinny women?

Well, there doesn't need to be because in reality most of the internet is devoted to pictures of skinny women and this corner of the internet doesn't need to be the same.

Thank you William for showing so very clearly how it can be much harder for a fat man to be accepted by women, fat women or thin women, than it can be for a fat woman to be accepted by men.

It isn't any wonder that the fat guys here appreciate the FFAs here, sometimes our acceptance space can feel very small, very small indeed.


----------



## imfree (May 7, 2008)

"Adversity builds character" is what my pastor says.
Though my ride in Dimmerland has been bumpy, I
wouldn't trade it for the world. Real character growth
can occur after a person gets past the sting of 
criticism and takes good advice to heart. It has had
it's uncomfortable times for me, but I'm far richer
from my experience.


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## LisaInNC (May 7, 2008)

Ok this is for PolarKat...I LOVE chunky guys...but I have found they are only interested in rail thin girls. Now when you say you have yet to meet an FFA...do you mean an FFA built like Paris Hilton? I know in the past I have asked bigger guys out and stuff and have been totally overlooked.


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## Mythik (May 7, 2008)

LisaInNC said:


> Ok this is for PolarKat...I LOVE chunky guys...but I have found they are only interested in rail thin girls. Now when you say you have yet to meet an FFA...do you mean an FFA built like Paris Hilton? I know in the past I have asked bigger guys out and stuff and have been totally overlooked.



If I ever stop by in Charlotte, I'm looking you up.


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## Mythik (May 7, 2008)

Carl1h said:


> Wow. I hadn't noticed that thread.
> 
> The statistical evidence of that thread:
> 
> ...



I looked at that thread the other day, and made some similar observations. I was tempted to start a "Hot Girl Thread" with skinny girl pics in it, just to prove a point -- but that would have been dishonest (images of skinny girls do nothing for me). It also would have been inflammatory.

But yes, it is interesting...


----------



## William (May 7, 2008)

Hi 

There was one started by one of the ladies here I think, but it died out.

William




Mythik said:


> I looked at that thread the other day, and made some similar observations. I was tempted to start a "Hot Girl Thread" with skinny girl pics in it, just to prove a point -- but that would have been dishonest (images of skinny girls do nothing for me). It also would have been inflammatory.
> 
> But yes, it is interesting...


----------



## olwen (May 7, 2008)

Zandoz said:


> I really think this popular line of thought is a myth...I don't think either gender has it better or worse when it comes to society's view of fat acceptability. In general I think it's pretty much a common human trait to think that "our team" gets a raw deal more often, when in reality it is more about the natural tendency to notice the bad stuff that hits home more than it is to notice the stuff hitting elsewhere. <shrug>
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, in terms of society's acceptance of sexual expression, BHMs are probably closer to those of women in general than those of men in general in the net effect. There is virtually no general encouragement or acceptance of any kind of expression of sexuality for a fat guy...outside of those mythical FFAs. The underlying reasons for unacceptability may be different, but it's still unacceptable. For a fat guy, 99.99% of the time, any kind of expression of sexuality is going to either invoke an "Ewwwwww" kind of response or laughter. The reason you see big guys "in the media" is almost universally for comedy fodder....



Zandoz, When I say you get to have your desires expressed, what I mean is that you get to have what you like sexually expressed in many ways. You can go somewhere to find the things that turn you on in exactly or almost exactly the way you feel/see it in you own personal fantasy life. When I say you are encouraged to express your fantasies I mean just that. Even if you don't express them to others you have a way of realizing those fantasies either by yourself or with another person. Women don't get to do that because by and large porn isn't made with women in mind. In all types of pornography and even in advertising women are paid do things that turn straight men on. And sometimes men are paid to turn gay men on. Men are not paid specifically to turn women on and to fuel their sexual fantasies. That's what I mean. 

As for big guys in the media, yes, I agree they are often used as comedy fodder. Fat men coon for the skinnies. However, the fact that fat men are shown in healthy relationships or relationships at all (fat men of all ages, not just youthful looking ones) not only negates your previous statement to some extent, it goes a long way to normalizing that relationship in our collective unconsciousness. 

Fat women are also used as comedy fodder, however fat women are seldom shown in relationships with any men at all. The only examples that come to mind are Tracy Turnbladt (Hairspray) and Sabrina (Fat Girls). Both are comedies, btw. More often than not, fat women are shown as the sad hopeless food addicted best friend who wishes she were the thin girl, or the fat old matron who gives everybody else what for. Hell fat women don't even get to be fat (Shallow Hal). Fat men get to play lead roles with characters who are strong and powerful and not at all comical. Those men may not have romantic interests but sometimes they still get to be unapologetically fat. Fat women, especially older women are never the lead role, unless it's a movie about some fat related health issue and she looses weight in the end. We watch the fat woman literally disappear. The only example of a fat woman that comes close to being powerful in a way that skinny people can digest is Roseanne. And she succumbed to the pressure to loose weight didn't she? Try to dispute this. Not seeing fat women as sexual beings also goes a long way - to negate the visibility of fat women in our collective unconscious.

So I ask you which is better, being shown in a relationship, even if it's to coon or being shown as an immoral emotional wreck with no hope but lonliness, sadness and death or else?

American cinema in the 1940's was full of blacks cooning, excuse me, playing roles of service. We got to be the butler, the porter, the maid, the fat mammy. Hispanics were hapless criminals, and when they weren't criminals white men played hispanics. Film historians can say well this is a horrible way to treat blacks and hispanics in film. These characters didn't always reflect the real lives of blacks and latinos. And they are right. But they can also say, well at least they were seen. At least they were visible. 

Ultimately, my point is that even tho fat men aren't being represented in a way that makes sense to you and reflects attitudes, roles, and ideas that jive with you at least they are shown as men who have their shit together. This shouldn't make you angry, this should let you know that it's one less step for fat men to climb on the way size acceptance for all.


----------



## olwen (May 7, 2008)

I can totally see how a hot guy thread would make some of you mad. If it were a hot skinny chick thread I'd be livid. But let me remind you that some of the fat chicks like thin guys, just like some of you fat dudes like the thin girls. This is in no way representative of everybody, just the people who are enjoying the pics in the thread. The point of the thread is to give some of the women the opportunity to see what turns them on in a way that they like. Surely the BHMs make the same requests of the FFAs.

ETA: I am glad to know how you all feel about it tho.


----------



## William (May 7, 2008)

Hi Olwen

I know that everyone deserves what turns them on.

I think that it is the huge number of posts in that thread that makes it look bad for Fat Men, but maybe it was just a matter of a few women making a lot of posts. 

William





olwen said:


> I can totally see how a hot guy thread would make some of you mad. If it were a hot skinny chick thread I'd be livid. But let me remind you that some of the fat chicks like thin guys, just like some of you fat dudes like the thin girls. This is in no way representative of everybody, just the people who are enjoying the pics in the thread. The point of the thread is to give some of the women the opportunity to see what turns them on in a way that they like. Surely the BHMs make the same requests of the FFAs.
> 
> ETA: I am glad to know how you all feel about it tho.


----------



## Carl1h (May 7, 2008)

olwen said:


> I can totally see how a hot guy thread would make some of you mad. If it were a hot skinny chick thread I'd be livid. But let me remind you that some of the fat chicks like thin guys, just like some of you fat dudes like the thin girls. This is in no way representative of everybody, just the people who are enjoying the pics in the thread. The point of the thread is to give some of the women the opportunity to see what turns them on in a way that they like. Surely the BHMs make the same requests of the FFAs.



I wouldn't have a problem with a thread where the BBW's showed off their husbands and boyfriends, whether they be fat, skinny or in between. But a 1000+ post thread of pictures of celebrities that is 99% skinny, buff guys, goes kinda far with it in my opinion. But then just as I don't really need to be reminded what the popular view of the perfect male is, I also don't need to be reminded that people can be clueless about the effects of their own actions.

Speaking of fat roles for women, though, do you remember Mimi from the Drew Carey show? I loved Mimi, she was a great character. Unapologetically fat and very strong.

I hate that whole fat suit thing. What was John Travolta doing in a fatsuit in the role of Edna in Hairspray? If they couldn't get a fat transvestite to reprise Divine's performance then they should have gotten a fat woman, no one who needed a fat suit should have been cast for that role.

But then we really shouldn't be turning to Hollywood for our role models, there isn't any reality there. Everything is made up. The fat people aren't really all that fat (if they are even fat at all), and the skinny people are unrealistically skinny and people kill themselves trying to match that skinny ideal... which kind of brings me back to a great long thread of pictures of skinny celebrities that people are drooling over, and reasons why I might not like it.


----------



## olwen (May 8, 2008)

Damn Carl, and here I thought my post was undisputable. I forgot all about Mimi. I confess, I stopped watching that show for a while then suddenly she was married. But remember, she was crass and portrayed as a clown, not necessarily as a sexy bbw. And I haven't seen the film version of the muscial version of the film version of hairspray. I forgot about John Travolta too! I love John Waters' films. In my head I thought of Divine.

You're absolutly right, we shouldn't be turning to hollywood, however, the average consumer eats it up and unfortunately hollywood is where the average consumer takes a lot of their cues. Advertisers reach the widest audiences when they market to the lowest common denomenator. The lowest common denomenator makes the film and tv companies the most money. Real money; and so their perceived desires are catered to.

As Dr. P said in another thread, context is everything. This is a site for fat people and their admirers. Whether you realize it or not your body, your fat body is being admired. Make no mistake about that. Not every woman on earth will find you attractive and not every man on earth will find me attractive. It's a fact of life we both have to live with. Now I don't know if you are attracted to bbws, but if you aren't, then why should it matter if so many of them are attracted to thin guys. I like big guys too sometimes, but I don't let it get to me if they aren't attracted to me in return.

But I get that on a site like this you'd want your body to be celebrated in every possible way. And I get how seeing that thread would make you feel quite uncelebrated, but put it into context. This just happens to be a site (in a world of few opportunities) where women can express what they like. I don't have a porno site to go to, or hundreds of glossy mags to choose from, or a paysite board to oggle, or a phone sex line to call, or victor's secret catalog to order to see some of what I like. 

I have a thread in Dims. 

Let me have it.


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## Carl1h (May 8, 2008)

olwen said:


> I forgot all about Mimi. I confess, I stopped watching that show for a while then suddenly she was married. But remember, she was crass and portrayed as a clown, not necessarily as a sexy bbw.


I disagree that Mimi was portrayed as a clown, or at least no more than everyone else on the show. She wore a lot of flashy make up and and wore the (IMO) greatest flashy dresses, it's true. But she was always totally confident about her looks and her sex appeal, and nothing ever got by her. Let me quote Wikipedia as a second opinion:
Mimi Bobeck (Kathy Kinney) - Mr. Bell's, and then later Mr. Wick's, assistant/secretary. She is an overweight woman who wears a lot of make-up, but has very high self-esteem. (As an in-joke, Mimi's mother was played by Tammy Faye Bakker.) _(Snipped it here for brevity)_ Her character can be seen as an attack on societal norms of beauty, much as the main character of Rosalie Goes Shopping. Mimi's past has a lot of connections to the world of music; she often talks about being a roadie for Foghat and was married to Eddie Money for two weeks after appearing at his first concert. Additionally, she admits to sleeping with both Joe Walsh and Peter Frampton. Frampton still carries a torch for Mimi; he has a tattoo of her likeness on his chest.



olwen said:


> But I get that on a site like this you'd want your body to be celebrated in every possible way. And I get how seeing that thread would make you feel quite uncelebrated, but put it into context. This just happens to be a site (in a world of few opportunities) where women can express what they like. I don't have a porno site to go to, or hundreds of glossy mags to choose from, or a paysite board to oggle, or a phone sex line to call, or victor's secret catalog to order to see some of what I like.



If you want a porno site to go to and you haven't found one, then I don't think you're looking, especially if you like the much hyped skinny guy with the six pack abs, which is what we're talking about in the thread in question, I mean I'm not saying that you shouldn't be able to come here and ogle fat guys. While porn targeted at women is much much less common than porn targeted at men it does exist and the internet makes finding it easier than ever before in history. As far as the images on the hot boy thread go, anytime you want to see an image like any of those posted you can simply go to google (or any other search engine) and do an image search by name. I typed in Keanu Reaves (no reason why I chose him, he just came to mind first) and it brought back 3480 results in .07 seconds. Chippendales brought back 16,400 in .08 seconds. I don't really see how women are being so deprived of these images on the internet that they have to have them posted here. This isn't a case of downtrodden women eking out a small territory where they can ogle good looking male celebrities, they can do that easily on the internet from any search engine. You also claim this to be a rare place for women to express what they like. It might be rare to have a site for women to express how much they like fat guys, but as far as women being able to express how much they like hunky celebrities? That doesn't hold up, these guys wouldn't be celebrity hunks if women didn't express how much they like them.

How many sites do you think there are where fat guys can go and be appreciated and not be subject to comparison to images of the ideal six pack ab males? Do you think all those guy oriented porno sites use fat guys? Do you think they even use guys with average sized dicks? Are we supposed to be seeing ourselves in those guys? The argument you're using only works for my side of the argument. If you think it's important to have a little space set aside that isn't set aside anywhere else, then then you would find that thread distasteful. If you want to think that the "woman's" side in this argument is the right side, no matter what, well then you aren't really having a discussion where you are open to learning anything, and I'll stop wasting my time.

As far as what the women here look at, I don't care what they look at. A lot of the regular FAs are, as far as I can tell, conventionally handsome men. I wouldn't complain about a thread showing off their thin bodies and ripped abs, because I can see the point in it and these guys are real guys who are here doing the support thing. Women preferring thin guys really aren't any sort of deviance, they aren't unusual, they are the norm, and I have already noticed that trend. I just don't think that particular thread is in good taste on a fat acceptance site, and I would hope that you, not everyone, lets just say that I hope that you could acknowledge as much, rather than make excuses. You know how you would feel if the situation was reversed, why don't you see that wrong is wrong?


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## PolarKat (May 8, 2008)

LisaInNC said:


> Ok this is for PolarKat...I LOVE chunky guys...but I have found they are only interested in rail thin girls. Now when you say you have yet to meet an FFA...do you mean an FFA built like Paris Hilton



Paris Hilton.. just typing that.. now I feel dirty.. hang on.. gonna wash my hands.. maybe take a shower.. OHHKAYY feel better now.. 

I mean FFAs built with two X chromosomes. I guess you're implying that I might be looking in just one direction. It isn't that simple. I'm not a fat or skinny admirer. On a purely physical level size isn't the specific I find attractive, it's these little bizzare features, and to make matters worse, the features depend on other features.. I'm probably not making sense.. okay.. a certain shape of eye goes with a certain eyebrow, big lips with bunny teeth, or slim lips with cat fangs, rounded face with a wide pointed nose, or a narrow face with a thin button nose. and then there's features specific to thin women, and one's specific to large women.. I notice these things way before I actually notice the height or width.. 

I've dated both BBWs and thin, my first "steady" was a BBW, and my longest relationship was one also, and she always dated tall ultra skinny guys, she's dating one now as well. Could be she's a feeder that wants a fresh start 



LisaInNC said:


> I know in the past I have asked bigger guys out and stuff and have been totally overlooked.



From my perspective it might be a few things, they have preference for thin, some men don't know how to deal with agressive women, and if they're like me.. they're chicken.. well almost, I'm generally ultra shy, and character is a big criteria for me as well, so I like to get to know someone as a friend before I go down that road..partially so I don't end up with a paris , and to build up the extra confidence, and comfort level.. in the end it's very person specific, the only other BHM I'm close with in real life was too outgoing and agressive, and to this day I don't think he can even see thin women, if they're not BBW's it's like he's looking right through them..
There's quite a few BHM's that are FA's here I hope they chime in, maybe it'll shed some light on this.


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## stefanie (May 8, 2008)

Carl1h said:


> I wouldn't have a problem with a thread where the BBW's showed off their husbands and boyfriends, whether they be fat, skinny or in between. But a 1000+ post thread of pictures of celebrities that is 99% skinny, buff guys, goes kinda far with it in my opinion. (snip)
> 
> But then we really shouldn't be turning to Hollywood for our role models, there isn't any reality there. Everything is made up.



I agree; the larger difficulty is with the whole cult of "celebrities" from the ground up - especially when celebrities are used as benchmarks for increasingly narrow standards of "beauty." So you have this exceptionally rigid visual "caste system" where if someone gains 5 lbs., their career is threatened. Or the offending body shape is just digitally chiseled out (like Ray Winstone in Beowulf, who is IRL kind of chunky, but in Beowulf was digitally "buffed" to make him look more like a stereotypic "hero.")

So would a Hot FAT Actors thread be an alternative, or is that just perpetuating the problem? On one hand I would love to find an outlet for my collection of Jorge Garcia (Hurley on LOST) pics; OTOH is that contributing to celebrity worship? ; )



> I hate that whole fat suit thing. What was John Travolta doing in a fatsuit in the role of Edna in Hairspray? If they couldn't get a fat transvestite to reprise Divine's performance then they should have gotten a fat woman, no one who needed a fat suit should have been cast for that role.



I know - I thought Divine's memory could have been honored a bit better, by using not only a person in the role who was genuinely, seriously fat (as Divine was), but also a transvestite as well.


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## Carl1h (May 8, 2008)

stefanie said:


> So would a Hot FAT Actors thread be an alternative, or is that just perpetuating the problem? On one hand I would love to find an outlet for my collection of Jorge Garcia (Hurley on LOST) pics; OTOH is that contributing to celebrity worship? ; )


There have been threads here where FFAs have posted their favorite fat actors, and I am pretty sure that Jorge Garcia has made more than one appearance. Those threads weren't offensive because they featured fat actors and that fits with the overall them of fat acceptance.


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## LoveBHMS (May 8, 2008)

Carl1h said:


> I wouldn't have a problem with a thread where the BBW's showed off their husbands and boyfriends, whether they be fat, skinny or in between. But a 1000+ post thread of pictures of celebrities that is 99% skinny, buff guys, goes kinda far with it in my opinion. But then just as I don't really need to be reminded what the popular view of the perfect male is, I also don't need to be reminded that people can be clueless about the effects of their own actions.



Man, this is the best post ever.

I am unabashedly posting on Dims _right now._ In light of all the ridiculous over the top stuff that's gone down recently regarding me, I really wanted to respond to this post. And if anyone reading a post with my name on it takes issue, try the ignore function.

The time is long long overdue for a discussion about gender roles at Dims and in the SA community at large. I can't imagine the hullabaloo that would result if a BHM had started a lounge topic wherein males could post pictures of "HOT GIRLS."

There would be a hue and cry about how the women don't come *here to Dimensions* to see pictures of thin women.


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## Zandoz (May 8, 2008)

olwen said:


> Zandoz, When I say you get to have your desires expressed, what I mean is that you get to have what you like sexually expressed in many ways. You can go somewhere to find the things that turn you on in exactly or almost exactly the way you feel/see it in you own personal fantasy life. When I say you are encouraged to express your fantasies I mean just that. Even if you don't express them to others you have a way of realizing those fantasies either by yourself or with another person. Women don't get to do that because by and large porn isn't made with women in mind. In all types of pornography and even in advertising women are paid do things that turn straight men on. And sometimes men are paid to turn gay men on. Men are not paid specifically to turn women on and to fuel their sexual fantasies. That's what I mean.
> 
> As for big guys in the media, yes, I agree they are often used as comedy fodder. Fat men coon for the skinnies. However, the fact that fat men are shown in healthy relationships or relationships at all (fat men of all ages, not just youthful looking ones) not only negates your previous statement to some extent, it goes a long way to normalizing that relationship in our collective unconsciousness.
> 
> ...



As far as porn goes, that is simply a matter of market. No one is out there stopping them from making it...no one is out there protesting the making of woman oriented porn any more than they are male oriented. Woman oriented porn operations have been tried, and some are still around as far as I know...but the market has never taken off to any great deal. In the days when the porn outlets were mainly seen as "seedy places that women should not go", there was some validity to what you say...but now days with the internet, it is available safely and discreetly to anyone who wants it and is willing to pay. Try simply googling "women's porn"...18,700 pages...and I'd bet not one of them that would turn away a woman customer. And I'd be very surprised if even one of their suppliers would turn down the money to be made making any kind of porn that there was a money making demand for. Any kind of porn that there is a money making market for, is and will be made...even if illegal. 

The same goes for advertising. What's put out there is determined by what the marketing people see as catching the attention of the most people most likely to buy their product. In an economic climate where companies do ANYTING...even sell out their own country...to add another penny to the bottom line, there is not any wide spread ongoing plot to intentionally ignore large segments of potential markets just to keep women in their place...what ever that means. Dollar signs do not have gender.

Fat guys as strong leading men? Shown as having their shit together? I do not recall any in any kind of a positive role, unless you count something like Marlon Brando in The Godfather...and that was more a stereotypical thing...the two roles fat guys can get...mobster and biker dude. Neither very positive. The rest are just at best bumbling buffoons. Roseanne came into had her 15 minutes plus while she was fat. Though I can't speak specifically to her motives for losing, to me it was so out of character for the role she played, and her comedy persona before the TV series, I suspect it was more about her grasping at straws to stay in the limelight once her show had run beyond it's course. The show did not decline because of her size...it took off in spite of her size...and simply ran out of fresh variations on that theme. The last I saw of her she was still fat, and gaining, and talking about how the whole WLS thing did not work for her. Oprah climbed into the limelight when she was heavier....in spite of her being fat. Yes, there are isolated examples for both fat genders, making TV/Movie inroads...mostly stereotypical or in spite of their size. As far a men's success vs women's success, Roseanne and Oprah are two more than the number of men I can think of in non stereotypical/comedy rolls.

For the most part like the porn and the advertising, mainstream visual entertainment is about appealing to the largest markets. Face it, even among people who are fat, in spite of the whole size acceptance movement, the majority would rather not be fat. Overall the general market for anything is likely to be overwhelmingly people not seriously fat...and those that are fat but don't want to be.


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## Mythik (May 8, 2008)

Remember "Cannon"? It was a '70s TV detective series with a fat protagonist, played by William Conrad:







GREAT show -- good writing, good acting, well-produced. Too bad it didn't fit the formula.

I remember seeing an interview with William Conrad, wherein he stated that at one stage he lost a tremendous amount of weight, but his wife objected, and asked him if he'd gain it back. So, here we have a fat actor, playing a positive fat role, and in real life, he has a FFA spouse. 

Ah, the good old days...


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## Melian (May 8, 2008)

Oh PolarKat....we FFAs are in the snow, hunting the insulated mens


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## Zandoz (May 8, 2008)

missaf said:


> Power is in the mind of the beholder. There are many role models that are fat that aren't even being mentioned here. Roseanne, sure, but what about Cammryn Mannheim... Orson Welles?



Orson Wells made his name in the entertainment business when he was not the fat man he is remembered as in his later life. As his weight increased, the visual roles disappeared in spite of his huge talent. The majority of his later work was in narration and commercials. 



Mythik said:


> Remember "Cannon"? It was a '70s TV detective series with a fat protagonist, played by William Conrad:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



After I made that last post, I thought of Bill Conrad and his role as Frank Cannon. Though he is another who made his name before he was unmarketable fat, that was a role that is still the only fat man positive roles I can think of. As good as that series was, back in the detective show boom period, it is about the only one of those 70s detective series that has not had much of a syndication life...in spite of being better than many of those that have lived on.


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## Ninja Glutton (May 8, 2008)

Carl1h said:


> I wouldn't have a problem with a thread where the BBW's showed off their husbands and boyfriends, whether they be fat, skinny or in between. But a 1000+ post thread of pictures of celebrities that is 99% skinny, buff guys, goes kinda far with it in my opinion. But then just as I don't really need to be reminded what the popular view of the perfect male is, I also don't need to be reminded that people can be clueless about the effects of their own actions.



Dude, I 110% agree here. Anytime girls drools over/state their preferences about what is a "hot male body" it is perfectly acceptable. As soon as a male does anything near the same, they are chastised and ostracized. Their posts are ignored. Their opinions no longer matter. The double standard of it all drives me absolutely batty. The thread name should be "Are BBWs fragile flowers on the edge of emotional collapse" because they seem to take everything to heart.


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## Melian (May 8, 2008)

Ninja Glutton said:


> Dude, I 110% agree here. Anytime girls drools over/state their preferences about what is a "hot male body" it is perfectly acceptable. As soon as a male does anything near the same, they are chastised and ostracized. Their posts are ignored. Their opinions no longer matter. The double standard of it all drives me absolutely batty. The thread name should be "Are BBWs fragile flowers on the edge of emotional collapse" because they seem to take everything to heart.




I can't rep you again, but I notice this double standard too! And not just on message boards....


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## LoveBHMS (May 8, 2008)

Ninja Glutton said:


> Dude, I 110% agree here. Anytime girls drools over/state their preferences about what is a "hot male body" it is perfectly acceptable. As soon as a male does anything near the same, they are chastised and ostracized. Their posts are ignored. Their opinions no longer matter. The double standard of it all drives me absolutely batty. The thread name should be "Are BBWs fragile flowers on the edge of emotional collapse" because they seem to take everything to heart.



Carl, I apologize.

THIS is now the best post ever.

Recent events have shown me something about this community.

It's uniquely stereotypically female.

Being female is a good thing. But sometimes the traditional women's way of doing things is different. One hallmark is groupthink. In order to belong to the group it is imperative you act a certain way. Getting out of line ensures a swift kick to the head. I saw this when i recently instigated (by mistake) a sad and unpleasant event on this board. People were angry at me (rightfullty so) , but many of my friends chose to be supportive. In being supportive, they were mocked and shouted down and harassed in public. Several questioned why they were not entitled to their own observations about the situation, but were quickly painted as traitors. Holding an opinion different from the majority made them the targets of great anger even though they had done nothing wrong and were merely offering opinions on the goings on.

Girl cliques in middle schools have been studied and found to have certain attributes. A small number of queen bees with arbitrary rules who decide how everyone should dress/talk/look/think. Their is a tremendous amount of emphasis on following the leader or leaders. Individuality is punished.

Girls are taught to be nice. But the forced niceness 24/7 is not realistic. So girls wind up with little or no outlet for aggression. Boys will stereotypically, if they have a conflict, knock each other around or fight and then shake hands and have a beer. Since girls are disallowed from being aggressive, their outlet becomes personal cruelty, nastiness, or ostracism.

In girl cliques, the rules sometimes differ for different people. There may be one super cool fat girl while the other fat girls get rocks thrown at them. There may be one totally badassed lesbian who's in the in crowd even though homophobia is rampant.

This community sometimes has a sense of forced sweetness. When somebody posts pictures there is almost an imperative to say "OMG...UR so hot!" Interestingly, when we women dont' respond to a man's pictures, we get castigated. "I"m leaving you all suck nobody said i was hot." It's as if women are expected to be sweet even if we don't like a picture. If you visit the makeup or clothing board, virtually any posted picture will immediately be followed with fawning "Oh wow you're gorgeous!" whether or not the person even looks good by any reasonable standard. But we're supposed to behave that way b/c we're women.


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## Waxwing (May 8, 2008)

^^^ Absolutely right.


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## cammy (May 8, 2008)

Ninja Glutton said:


> Dude, I 110% agree here. Anytime girls drools over/state their preferences about what is a "hot male body" it is perfectly acceptable. As soon as a male does anything near the same, they are chastised and ostracized. Their posts are ignored. Their opinions no longer matter. The double standard of it all drives me absolutely batty. The thread name should be "Are BBWs fragile flowers on the edge of emotional collapse" because they seem to take everything to heart.



This double standard exists because throughout history, men have traditionally been the aggressors, rapists, abusers, etc., and thus, a kind of perceived letcherous reputation, deserved or undeserved, is attached to any comment remotely sexual in nature. But of course, women who post "revealing" photos or posts should be willing to accept whatever resulting comments are brought forth, or they should refrain from such postings.

As an aside, in other areas of life, women are driven batty by other double standards.


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## Pinstripes67 (May 8, 2008)

Having not waded through the pages of posts... I will kinda just throw my two cents in.. and if its been said, I apologize.

Are BHMs fragile? Eh, just like anyone it depends on the individual and their circumstances. Me? In general, I am not overly full of self-esteem and tend to be a bit thin-skinned, but can also be jovial and self-deprecating with full confidence of who I am, what I am, and what I can do. This just depends on what is going on in my life at any given time. 

F'rinstance, these days I am a complete mess. My self-esteem is in the toilet I am more thin-skinned than the ankles of an anorexic 80-yr old grandmother and I couldnt be less friendly if I was a DMV agent with poison ivy covered genitals.

Will I come out of it? I assume so, peaks and valleys of life and all that. At some point in the future, I will go back to having the days of confidence and esteem. BUt I guess that's the point, we all have our periods of time where we are more or less emotionally stable. BHMs arent any different than anyone else.


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## Rojodi (May 8, 2008)

I ain't no fragile flower, that's for DAMN sure!! I know who I am, I know what I am! I am one hot MoFo!! But it seems I'm in the minority.


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## LoveBHMS (May 8, 2008)

> BHMs arent any different than anyone else.



Except, hotter.

:wubu:


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## Pinstripes67 (May 8, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Pinstripes67 said:
> 
> 
> > BHMs arent any different than anyone else.
> ...



Well, yeah.. there's that


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## sweet&fat (May 8, 2008)

So true, gentlemen. I'm glad this inequity is being discussed. I tried to start a comparative FA/FFA and BBW/BHM thread on the main board a few months ago, and it got ridiculed and eventually bumped to the FFA/BHM board. I have noticed times when BHMs have tried to contribute to a thread on other boards and were ignored or knocked down.

I have contributed to the "hot boy" thread, and I thank you for sharing your thoughts on it. You've opened my eyes and I see where it could be hurtful to BHMs. I think you have every right to start a "hot girl" thread if you want to, with skinny women if that's your preference. But you're right, you'll probably get a lot of grief for it. I don't know what the solution is, but I just wanted to say that there are some BBWs who recognize this double standard and think it's unfair. 



Carl1h said:


> I wouldn't have a problem with a thread where the BBW's showed off their husbands and boyfriends, whether they be fat, skinny or in between. But a 1000+ post thread of pictures of celebrities that is 99% skinny, buff guys, goes kinda far with it in my opinion. But then just as I don't really need to be reminded what the popular view of the perfect male is, I also don't need to be reminded that people can be clueless about the effects of their own actions.





Ninja Glutton said:


> Dude, I 110% agree here. Anytime girls drools over/state their preferences about what is a "hot male body" it is perfectly acceptable. As soon as a male does anything near the same, they are chastised and ostracized. Their posts are ignored. Their opinions no longer matter. The double standard of it all drives me absolutely batty. The thread name should be "Are BBWs fragile flowers on the edge of emotional collapse" because they seem to take everything to heart.


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## Tad (May 8, 2008)

Ninja Glutton said:


> Dude, I 110% agree here. Anytime girls drools over/state their preferences about what is a "hot male body" it is perfectly acceptable. As soon as a male does anything near the same, they are chastised and ostracized. Their posts are ignored. Their opinions no longer matter. The double standard of it all drives me absolutely batty. The thread name should be "Are BBWs fragile flowers on the edge of emotional collapse" because they seem to take everything to heart.



Gross generalization much?

I'm not saying that there is no truth to it, because of course there is. But the action of a few does not mean that everyone in that class feels the same way. For certain there are some people around Dimensions who really seem interested in hearing from only fat women and thin FA. And I've had my own episodes of being largely ignored on threads where guys in general were encouraged to post pictures, or everyone was encouraged to post pictures of a particular type, because those reading those threads were often looking only for 'hot boy' FA in the former type, or BBW/thinFA in the latter. But some are more sensitive to these issues, and some do more broadly get it.

I do feel that this place should be about celebrating the attractiveness of BBW and BHM. There are very few places where you can see bigger people portrayed in a positive light, and there are very few places that bigger people can go and get appreciated for their looks. I dont really have an issue with FA of either gender showing pics here and there, especially in the lounge or as couples with big folk, but I am kind of uncomfortable with threads inviting the admirers to post their hot pictures. This is not a dating site in intent, so I dont really see the need for that sort of thread. But Im sure that others feel otherwise, and their perspective is as valid as mine. 

I just heard a song that caught my feeling about some of these situations rather well, called "Psychic Cat Fight" by Lily Frost. Unfortunately I can't find the song or lyrics anywhere easily linkable. But you can listen to it by going to http://radio3.cbc.ca/ then in the search bar near the bottom of the screen put in lily frost, then choose "Fuse in Concert" from the options that come up, then choose 'Psychic Cat Fight'


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## stefanie (May 8, 2008)

sweet&fat said:


> So true, gentlemen. I'm glad this inequity is being discussed. I tried to start a comparative FA/FFA and BBW/BHM thread on the main board a few months ago, and it got ridiculed and eventually bumped to the FFA/BHM board.



Hi, *sweet&fat*, do you mind linking to the thread you're referring to, if you know? (If not, that's OK - I can go look when I have a bit more time.) Maybe the thread just needs a little waking up?



> I have contributed to the "hot boy" thread, and I thank you for sharing your thoughts on it. You've opened my eyes and I see where it could be hurtful to BHMs.



For myself, I wasn't sure if posting an attractive fat man celebrity pic on that thread would have been OK or not.


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## butch (May 8, 2008)

You know, when I want to get pages upon pages of pics of fat men, I go to bellybuilders.com. I love it. Tons of pics, all men, lovely. 

If you're not happy with the amount of lovely fat male pics here, maybe go see why the sites for the gay men are different, and replicate it here. 

I will say, though, that its funny, just like some of you are complaining at the percentage of fat guys on the hot boy thread, I was secretly dismayed at the recent thead here about pics of fat celebrities, because they were mostly of guys who are barely fat, IMO. I like 'em big, and Seth Rogan and the rest aren't too big. But hey, its a free country, post what you like, and I don't take it personally.

If it sounds like I'm here to snark and stir it up, I'm not. I'm just pointing out how these complaints seem to be shared by a lot of fat people, not just BHM and the FFAs.


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## sweet&fat (May 8, 2008)

No problem. It was well received on the FFA/BHM board:

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33705


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## LalaCity (May 8, 2008)

I don't normally participate in the FFA/BHM board (though, obviously, I lurk) because I'm not an FFA, per se (I just like me some mens, whatever size and shape, period!).

But I, too, dislike the "Hot Body" thread -- in fact, I try to stay away from all those threads I find objectifying, but I don't dispute others' desire to post or enjoy those topics.

If I were a BHM, I think I'd be hurt by a huge, unending thread glorifying the male body in its largely unrealistic "ideal" (read: slim but muscled) form...in fact, if I were just your average guy, I'd probably be a little put out, as well. That kind of ranking by physical-prettiness-as-determined-by-_US Magazine_ stuff is basically what the entire rest of the internet exists for...but here?

This "who's hot" business -- especially when it's promoting the kind of images of "perfection" that most of us find oppressive IRL -- really shouldn't be a recurring theme on a size acceptance site which, let's face it, serves as a refuge for bigger people of both genders.

So, yeah, agreed -- there's a definite double standard at work here.


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## olwen (May 8, 2008)

Carl1h said:


> I disagree that Mimi was portrayed as a clown, or at least no more than everyone else on the show. She wore a lot of flashy make up and and wore the (IMO) greatest flashy dresses, it's true. But she was always totally confident about her looks and her sex appeal, and nothing ever got by her. Let me quote Wikipedia as a second opinion:
> Mimi Bobeck (Kathy Kinney) - Mr. Bell's, and then later Mr. Wick's, assistant/secretary. She is an overweight woman who wears a lot of make-up, but has very high self-esteem. (As an in-joke, Mimi's mother was played by Tammy Faye Bakker.) _(Snipped it here for brevity)_ Her character can be seen as an attack on societal norms of beauty, much as the main character of Rosalie Goes Shopping. Mimi's past has a lot of connections to the world of music; she often talks about being a roadie for Foghat and was married to Eddie Money for two weeks after appearing at his first concert. Additionally, she admits to sleeping with both Joe Walsh and Peter Frampton. Frampton still carries a torch for Mimi; he has a tattoo of her likeness on his chest.
> 
> Mimi always made me cringe. It really bothered me that the only way people could seem to digest the idea of a fat woman being sexual on TV was if she was cartoonish.
> ...



I recall seeing a thread on this board when I first joined that had pics of skinny girls in them and I kinda freaked and got a little enraged, but then I realized, :doh: they're FFA's. I say start a thread about the thin celebrity women you find hot and if a bbw tells you it's offensive point her to the hot boy thread, and call it a day.


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## Ninja Glutton (May 8, 2008)

edx said:


> Gross generalization much?
> 
> I'm not saying that there is no truth to it, because of course there is. But the action of a few does not mean that everyone in that class feels the same way.



I agree that it was a gross generalization, but I was just using it to prove a point. I'm sorry if I offended those of you who don't marginalize, but I always feel like the BHMs are the most misunderstood group on the boards. If we post too many pictures, we're immature and annoying. If we contribute our actual opinions to discussions, we're closeminded. If we comment on thin, attractive girls, we're shallow. 

I just don't like the way _some_ BBWs try to (excuse the expression) "run shit" on the boards and push everyone else around with their opinions. I believe the community suffers from unilateral voices. I'm not saying I'm the most sensitive, virtuos, open-minded guy in the world, but I give everyone a chance. I would never try to silence someone or shut down a thread because it was offensive to me.

When will everyone realize that the answer to hateful speech isn't less speech... it's more?


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## William (May 8, 2008)

Hi Ninja

When I mentioned the hot boy thread I was not looking for it to be shut down, but I just wanted to highlight it as a example of what BHM have to deal with despite what so many people in Fat Acceptance have to say about the experiences of Fat Men.

If here in a community of Fat Acceptance and Admiration Fat Men could comprise such a small percentage of Beef Cake photos in a thread then in the real world the results would be far worse 

Tomorrow I will read in someone's Fat Acceptance Blog how much easier it is for Men to be fat than it is for women 

The good news that Dimensions rates right up with the best Fat Acceptance Blogs in regards to empathy towards Fat Men and their need for Fat Acceptance.

William

PS

I myself even helped marginalized BHM 

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=758317&postcount=933

William.............go figure 







Ninja Glutton said:


> I agree that it was a gross generalization, but I was just using it to prove a point. I'm sorry if I offended those of you who don't marginalize, but I always feel like the BHMs are the most misunderstood group on the boards. If we post too many pictures, we're immature and annoying. If we contribute our actual opinions to discussions, we're closeminded. If we comment on thin, attractive girls, we're shallow.
> 
> I just don't like the way _some_ BBWs try to (excuse the expression) "run shit" on the boards and push everyone else around with their opinions. I believe the community suffers from unilateral voices. I'm not saying I'm the most sensitive, virtuos, open-minded guy in the world, but I give everyone a chance. I would never try to silence someone or shut down a thread because it was offensive to me.
> 
> When will everyone realize that the answer to hateful speech isn't less speech... it's more?


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## Fascinita (May 8, 2008)

Ninja Glutton said:


> I just don't like the way _some_ BBWs try to (excuse the expression) "run shit" on the boards and push everyone else around with their opinions. I believe the community suffers from unilateral voices.



Well, let me ask you this... How often do you go out on the non-BHM/FFA boards and mingle with BBWs and FAs? I stop here about once a month, and even though it's my impression that most of you BHM prefer thin women exclusively, I still make an effort to participate here and say positive stuff about BHM--not in a pandering way, but because it's how I really feel. But I can tell you that I get few responses to my posts here, and most of the responses I do get seem to come from others, like butch, who know me from the other boards.

I'm just saying that it seems to me that if you'd like things to be better, the best place to start is with yourself. That's how it looks to me, and I can't say that I know for sure that you _don't_ already mingle on the other boards. I'm making a general point, more than anything else, about how I think we _all_ could contribute toward positive changes, rather than stopping at complaining.


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## TCUBOB (May 8, 2008)

To answer the title question, "It depends."

Are you into that?


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## Smite (May 8, 2008)

If anyone ever called me a fragile flower, i'd more than likely punch them point blank in the face.


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## PolarKat (May 9, 2008)

Melian said:


> Oh PolarKat....we FFAs are in the snow, hunting the insulated mens


In the winter when I was shoveling the driveway.. I kept looking up and wondering what that large cage hovering over my garage door, with cheeze under it was for.. :doh:


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## irish_redhead (May 9, 2008)

I don't usually venture in here (actually - I don't usually venture anywhere outside of the clothing boards) - but I followed the controversary, and saw some interesting posts here. 

Specifically - the topic of the "double standard" has been brought up. 

It sucks, but it is. 

Historically women have been disadvantaged by double standards. Women expressing aggressive sexuality is a relatively new concept. Even pioneers (such as Jospehine Baker) were utilizing their close-to-ideal feminine form to assert themselves. In spite of the leaps and bounds we've made in eliminating some repression in the gender, there are still hurdles to overcome. 

As girls it's acceptable to be sexual. As a fat girl it is still ridiculed. Partly because there are no icons of fat women being sexually aggressive in an attractive, realistic, respected manner - it's become a punchline because the fat woman is a parody, or the entire idea itself is portrayed as an absurdity. So in a world where women are raised with a greater sense of freedom, young fat girls are still taught to repress it and avoid any expression of sexual desire or attraction. 

When women finally learn that it's acceptable - even encouraged - in a place such as this, it starts pouring out. Some women can put men to shame with their frankness, suggestiveness or flirtatiousness - or lewd comments about the male form. In threads like the "hot boy" thread (which I haven't actually looked at - there's one on every message board I visit it seems), the sexuality explodes. It is upsetting that - at the same time - men are made to feel that their behaviour is sexist or demeaning or unacceptable. This could be because men are perceived to be aggressors (as was stated), and therefore women aren't comfortable. It doesn't negate the fact that it is no more appropriate to drool over some guy around the water cooler than it is for your male coworker to do to some blonde with huge tits. It SHOULD be unacceptable for either gender to behave this way in some situations, and acceptable for both in others. Work is unacceptable; The internet should be a place for these casual discussions (or at a bar with friends). And women should have no right to chastise the behaviour if they themselves behave that way. If there is a faction of people who desire thin women on this board, they are obviously here for reasons other than the admiration of BBWs (but they're still HERE because Dimensions relates to THEM). There should be a "hot girl" thread for those who want it, and it shouldn't be questioned by those who don't condone it. If it helps - put a disclaimer at the top of both threads indicating that there is no need for discussion - both threads have a right to exist and why. 

Which, finally, brings me to my second point:

Attraction is so much more than physicality for a lot of women (and men) - and because someone loves to look at great abs should NOT be taken for anything more than just an appreciation of ANY (semi-)nude form. It doesn't mean women don't want other body types, or find them attractive. It's definately more difficult to find male celebrities who aren't buff and thin but are portrayed in a sexual manner (the same is true for females!), but a lot of women just release their pent up sexuality by admiring MEN in general. 

Personally - I have no type. I'm married to a tall, quite thin/lean blonde guy. But I'm also attracted to some who are tall, dark and handsome. I love the goth look, rocker boys, preppy types. But I also like a lot more than that. I fawn over Brad Pitt (and sometimes Ryan Reynolds!), have a Kiefer Sutherland obsession, and adore Jeremy Sisto... all very different. I've had a thing for Brian Dennehy and John Goodman at times as well, and more "average" guys like Donal Logue or Vincent D'Onofrio. I have thin male friends that I've never once looked at as anything more than friends.... and a couple of male friends (considered heavy by some) that I am attracted to - and never actually even noticed that they had a gut, or love handles... (of course, I've never seen them naked---yet.) It's all about CHARISMA. Preference does come into play - and it's not harmful to state that "MY preference is for..." certain things. It's harmful to have the attitude that anything outside your preference is wrong and bad... but it should be just fine to say that "I prefer tall thin blondes" without having to worry about hurting someone's feelings. The charisma and chemistry is what matters. 

I've known women who only dated a certain type. One in particular (cute, chubby brunette) who ONLY ever dated athletic, tanned men of a certain height. She wouldn't even talk to a man who didn't fit that bill. One day - years later - I met her and her husband for the first time. He was shorter, older, pale and stocky. And she was in complete love with him. It wasn't about appearance - or settling for someone... or any of that. It was about her taking notice of a man who wasn't her type, and feeling an instant connection and desire. She relayed the story of how she was on a date with someone else when they first met. She ditched the surfer-dude mid-date, - and the next day she was calling her husband to ask him out. She thought the tall tanned guy was her fantasy - but he actually wasn't. It's not that looks don't matter at all - it's just that there are as many different preferences and opinions as there are physical differences. People shouldn't be chastised or made to feel uncomfortable for expressing it - either gender, or any size...

I've rambled enough... Sorry!


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## Carl1h (May 9, 2008)

Smite said:


> If anyone ever called me a fragile flower, i'd more than likely punch them point blank in the face.





missaf said:


> So the answer to the question would then be "Yes."



Lucky for my keyboard I wasn't drinking when I read that. Insightful, funny, well put. I'm tempted to go post something bad about you on another thread just so I can take it back and admit how wrong I was.

Just for the record the term stems from the comedy of Judy Tenuta who referred to herself as a petite and fragile flower. Whenever I want to mess with anyone who curses near me I warn them that they should watch their language, I am a petite and fragile flower. Then I get to watch them try to deal with the fact that a 500 pound man just said that to them, deadpan.


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## William (May 9, 2008)

Hi IR

There was this Hot Girl Thread

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26797

I find it funny that they originator of the thread felt the need to place a disclaimer because her pick was not a BBW 

Anyway the thread continued for reasonable length of time and people moved on.

I think that the mix of women that was chosen was a far more diverse group than the men that are being picked.

William



irish_redhead said:


> I don't usually venture in here (actually - I don't usually venture anywhere outside of the clothing boards) - but I followed the controversary, and saw some interesting posts here.
> 
> Specifically - the topic of the "double standard" has been brought up.
> 
> ...


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## Tad (May 9, 2008)

Ninja Glutton said:


> When will everyone realize that the answer to hateful speech isn't less speech... it's more?



Good post overall, but I really like this last line! SOOOOOO true :bow:


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## Observer (May 9, 2008)

Regarding Mr. Conrad of Cannon fame, how many recall that on radio he was the original Matt Dillon of Gunsmoke? But his stature and size prevented him from having the role that ultimately went to James Arness when the series transitioned to television.

Another actor of size was also a band leader and comedian - Jackie Gleason. And Raymond Burr in his later years was certainly larger. Former college football star and announcer Don Wilson was with Jack Benny for forty years.

Others with their own programs: Jack McElroy, who started out as the fat kid in Our Gang comedies and 300+ pound news anchor Alex Drier.

Just some name dropping . . .


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## Zandoz (May 9, 2008)

Actually, I have no problem with any of the "Hot ____ <insert gender descriptor here>" threads. Everyone is entitled to their preferences, no matter what size they are or what size(s) their preferences are. Even without such threads, functioning in everyday life pretty well demonstrates that those that prefer or even merely accept fat _____ <insert male descriptor here> are very very very few and far between. It's something that needs to be learned to cope with early on, or that whole fragile flower scenario is gonna hit home often and hard. Does it suck? Of course it does. But it's the reality that has to be dealt with and gotten over, because like it or not, it's not going to change...except for maybe for the worse. As I've said elsewhere, the whole size acceptance thing is functionally pretty much preaching to the choir...more so for ______<insert male descriptor here> fat acceptance.


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## Melian (May 9, 2008)

PolarKat said:


> In the winter when I was shoveling the driveway.. I kept looking up and wondering what that large cage hovering over my garage door, with cheeze under it was for.. :doh:



Must have been a different FFA...my trap has pie.


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## mossystate (May 9, 2008)

William..I knew there had been a ' hot girl ' thread, but I couldn't find it..ha. You say there was more diversity, even though you have not looked at the hot boy thread. Not sure how you can compare without seeing.

I just whipped through there, and, I did not see the diversity. I saw two very slightly plump women..the rest were really thin. So, all this complaining about double-standard, in terms of pictures shown out here..pretty silly. Like someone has mentioned...post the pics you ( general you ) want to see. 

Oh, and William...I am not sure where you have been hiding..there are a gadzillion ( ok, I did not count..ha ) men out here who comment and 'drool' over women.


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## olwen (May 9, 2008)

irish_redhead, I don't know you, but I love you for this post.




irish_redhead said:


> I don't usually venture in here (actually - I don't usually venture anywhere outside of the clothing boards) - but I followed the controversary, and saw some interesting posts here.
> 
> Specifically - the topic of the "double standard" has been brought up.
> 
> ...


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## William (May 9, 2008)

Hi Mossy

Not only have I looked at the Hot Boy thread I am a contributer!!

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=758317&postcount=933

My original double standard was not about the fact that women were drooling over men, but that out of all those hundreds of photos only a few were even of chubby men and none of fat men. I felt that with that many different people posting that the numbers statistically made a obvious trend. What made it even worse is that Dimensions is a Fat Friendly area so the results should even be worse in the real world.

The double standard is how Fat Acceptance is always fixating on how "easy" it is for Fat Men to be fat.




mossystate said:


> William..I knew there had been a ' hot girl ' thread, but I couldn't find it..ha. You say there was more diversity, even though you have not looked at the hot boy thread. Not sure how you can compare without seeing.
> 
> I just whipped through there, and, I did not see the diversity. I saw two very slightly plump women..the rest were really thin. So, all this complaining about double-standard, in terms of pictures shown out here..pretty silly. Like someone has mentioned...post the pics you ( general you ) want to see.
> 
> Oh, and William...I am not sure where you have been hiding..there are a gadzillion ( ok, I did not count..ha ) men out here who comment and 'drool' over women.


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## olwen (May 9, 2008)

William, 

While being fat is difficult in and of itself, would you at least acknowledge and accept that fat men do not have to deal with out and out gender bias. A man will never be the target of gender bias. If I were a guy I'd be thankful for that...

ETA: ....it just seems to me that you all seem to forget about gender bias whenever it's convenient for you...when you spend time on this site reading about the kinds of experiences that fat women go thru (the kind that fat men don't have to and never will) ought to make you cognizant of the effects of gender bias against fat women in the world at large....I'm frankly tired of the way some of you BHMs throw around the you-think-it's-easier-for-us argument as if it isn't true. Instead of whining about it, how about just speaking to your experiences for what they are, and realizing where they are in the larger scheme of things. 

....I just don't understand why you don't seem happy about not having to deal with gender bias....


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## William (May 9, 2008)

Hi Olwen

I always comment on the problems of Fat Women and Women in general, but that has nothing to do with Fat Acceptance's need to reduce Fat Male experiences into the smallest amount possible. If you noticed I never mention which gender I thought had it worse, I try never to do that.

William






olwen said:


> William,
> 
> While being fat is difficult in and of itself, would you at least acknowledge and accept that fat men do not have to deal with out and out gender bias. A man will never be the target of gender bias. If I were a guy I'd be thankful for that...


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## Zandoz (May 9, 2008)

olwen said:


> William,
> 
> While being fat is difficult in and of itself, would you at least acknowledge and accept that fat men do not have to deal with out and out gender bias. A man will never be the target of gender bias. If I were a guy I'd be thankful for that...



Not necessarily...the last job I worked at, when a woman took over the department (the 2nd woman to hold that position), she immediately befriended all the women in the department, barely acknowledged the presence of any of the men, and within 6 months all the men were gone....mostly for obviously BS reasons (as pointed out by other women working there). 

Discrimination is almost never a one sided coin. One side may come up more often, but that does not make it any more palatable to the ones that come up occasionally. If you get hit in the head with a brick, it doesn't really matter why the brick was thrown, or how many others get hit with bricks for what ever reasons...the injury is still the same.


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## Pinstripes67 (May 9, 2008)

olwen said:


> A man will never be the target of gender bias.



Yeah, I don't think I could disagree with this more...


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## olwen (May 9, 2008)

Could you guys give me examples or flesh out your opinions a little more? If you want to change my mind then _show _me what you mean.


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## Pinstripes67 (May 9, 2008)

olwen said:


> Could you guys give me examples or flesh out your opinions a little more? If you want to change my mind then _show _me what you mean.



Sure... in an age where gender bias is built into our laws (see Affirmative Action laws where, not just race but, gender quotas are mandated) to paint a broad brush of, and I paraphrase, "Men will never face gender bias." seems.... naive... at best.

There doesnt have to be anectdotal evidence of specific case of gender bias. It's simply written into our laws.


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## William (May 9, 2008)

Hi Olwen

I think that a main component of Fat Male Bias is Gender Bias.

William




Pinstripes67 said:


> Sure... in an age where gender bias is built into our laws (see Affirmative Action laws where, not just race but, gender quotas are mandated) to paint a broad brush of, and I paraphrase, "Men will never face gender bias." seems.... naive... at best.
> 
> There doesnt have to be anectdotal evidence of specific case of gender bias. It's simply written into our laws.


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## Carl1h (May 9, 2008)

olwen said:


> Could you guys give me examples or flesh out your opinions a little more? If you want to change my mind then _show _me what you mean.



I don't really think you are sincerely offering to have your mind changed, your mind seems pretty well made up, but I am willing to post my own personal examples, simply because you asked. I've said elsewhere, and I'll say again here that that I don't feel like I have it bad. If you think you have it worse than me, then I agree, you have it worse than me. On the other hand I don't believe that having it worse than me absolves anyone of responsibility for their actions.

For instances of clearly stated gender preference I have encountered I offer these: When I was younger there were several times when I was out of work and needing a job quite badly. At those times I applied for jobs that were "women's ghetto" jobs, being young and naive enough not to really understand that they were. Once the male manager in charge of hiring, took me to the work area, showed me the entirely female work force and said, "Do you see why you wouldn't fit in here?" I couldn't really, but I could see that I wasn't going to get that job. The second time, the (once again male) manager in charge of hiring just flat told me that women did better in that job and they didn't hire men for it. These weren't great jobs, I doubt they could even be called good jobs, but I think that the women working those jobs would have agreed that when you need the paycheck, ANY job is better than no job. Ironically, the job I did get after not getting those jobs the manager basically told me that I got the job because because I was a white man (he didn't say that exactly, but his meaning was clear). That terrific job reserved for elite white men? I got robbed twice in as many months and quit. Honestly, that was the worst job of the three. Years later I applied for a staff job at a state university and the administrator in charge of the position told me that she wouldn't hire me because the rest of her staff were all women and that I wouldn't be able to fit in with them. Lastly, and probably most ridiculously, when I was working as a toll collector, six months after I was hired, I was told by my female supervisor that I could no longer wear the earrings I had been wearing all along. I was the only guy there with earrings (two in one ear) but all the women there wore them. The women there heard about this from the lower level supervisors and took a stand on my behalf saying that it wasn't fair to say that men couldn't wear earrings but women could, and they were not going to be removing their earrings. She backpedaled to saying that everyone could wear only one earring per ear and then never pursued it again after one of the women went and got an extra piercing in her ears so she could wear two in each ear.

Is that the sort of examples you wanted to see? Don't bother telling me that other people have it worse, because I never said I have had it the worst, I'm just giving examples of how it happens.


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## Zandoz (May 9, 2008)

olwen said:


> Could you guys give me examples or flesh out your opinions a little more? If you want to change my mind then _show _me what you mean.



I already did.


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## William (May 9, 2008)

Hi Olwen

Personally I do not think that it is less acceptable for Women to be Fat than for Men. What I do believe that it is more acceptable for both Women and Men to harass a Woman than to harass a Man hence all the terrible stuff we hear about Fat Women experiencing in public.

Hearing these experiences does not make it one ounce more acceptable for me to be Fat. In print and on the internet the Fat rolls of both sexes are attacked with malice.

William




olwen said:


> Could you guys give me examples or flesh out your opinions a little more? If you want to change my mind then _show _me what you mean.


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## stefanie (May 9, 2008)

William said:


> Hi Olwen
> 
> I think that a main component of Fat Male Bias is Gender Bias.
> 
> William



Yes - in one example, fat men are sometimes seen as "feminine" (I do NOT think so; but sometimes that's the social prejudice.) They don't look like the "Greek god" ideal which forms the basis of so much of our society's standard of beauty. This ideal is pretty damaging to a lot of people's self-images, all through life. 

Similarly, fat women are vilified because they also don't have a more slender "adolescent boy" appearance.

I'm reading a book now called _The Desirable Body_ by Jon Stratton. It's got a lot of academic jargon in it, and I don't agree with some of it, but it *is* interesting in showing how idealized body types in many ways negatively affect both men and women. For instance, it says that about 100 years ago, a 5'7" woman was thought to be healthy *and* lovely if she weighed 148 lbs; in the 1950s she was thought to be beautiful at 115 lbs.


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## olwen (May 9, 2008)

Eh, guys, I push these arguments because I want to hear about your experiences and I want to know what you go thru - as men. Believe it or not I really do want to understand. I came here to understand. I honestly didn't think I came to this thread with an us vs. them mentality, but hearing that sentiment from you all makes me think....

Thank you Carl for actually giving me something to chew on.


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## Fascinita (May 10, 2008)

Pinstripes67 said:


> Sure... in an age where gender bias is built into our laws (see Affirmative Action laws where, not just race but, gender quotas are mandated) to paint a broad brush of, and I paraphrase, "Men will never face gender bias." seems.... naive... at best.
> 
> There doesnt have to be anectdotal evidence of specific case of gender bias. It's simply written into our laws.



I think there should be Affirmative Action for middle- and upper-class caucasian men. Because, you know, everyone else has it so much better than they do. It's just not fair!


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## Green Eyed Fairy (May 10, 2008)

Carl1h said:


> Ok, it's in the Lounge and that says it's for off topic stuff, and I guess if the topic is size acceptance, then a thread that shows how much they love the skinny guys falls into the off topic category. * But is there a thread anywhere around there full of pictures of skinny women?* A thread of over a thousand posts dedicated to pictures of skinny women?



Actually, it's a thread on this board called "Where are the Skinny FFAs At?" 
Not really a pic thread about "not real" people....but it does show an interest in thinner women. Nothing wrong with that, IMO.....just don't get why the BHM complain about a BBW that might prefer a thin FA.....
It's a known occurence down on this board.....
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10818&highlight=Skinny

Btw, I like some of the heavier guys....I also like some of the thin ones. I'm not apologizing. 
I posted about thin guys in that "hot boy" thread...I also posted some pics of heavier guys, too. Sorry I didn't come down here and snatch pics of men from this board.....400 pd Jude would have been my first choice but didn't think it was ethical to snatch his pic and post it.



***********************


Back to the subject at hand....do I think a man is an "emotional flower" because of his weight? That's absurd. 
Any man, of any weight can be "not as strong" as human beings need to be to survive in this world. 
I also don't think being a thin person makes you "emotionally strong". I'm pretty damn strong myself...and have been so at varying weights through- out my life.
I was picked on as a girl....a thin girl. I was abused as a girl...a thin girl. I am a strong woman....a fat woman.
Weight doesn't have shit to do with my emotional strength. It's an easy leap for me to think the same of a man.

ANYONE that chooses to be a victim...will be. Surviving and enjoying the life you have been given is much better, IMO.


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## Pinstripes67 (May 10, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> I think there should be Affirmative Action for middle- and upper-class caucasian men. Because, you know, everyone else has it so much better than they do. It's just not fair!


Way to miss the point of the post  ... the post was in response to someone saying that men NEVER face gender bias... my response was an example where gender bias not only occurs but is mandated... next time try context


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## BothGunsBlazing (May 10, 2008)

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40953

Hot girl thread.

HIT IT UP.


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## William (May 10, 2008)

I moved this


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## mossystate (May 10, 2008)

And of course there WAS the hot girl thread that was full of small women...*L* William, I could post pictures of men I do not find attractive ( and not referring to bigger guys ) , but, isn't the point of these ' hot ' threads all about people posting what they like? Am I missing something?


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## William (May 10, 2008)

That thread was also a reaction post.

I am not questioning or criticizing what people post just using the percentages of the totals which reveals a lot about the acceptance (or lack of) of Fat Men.

William




mossystate said:


> And of course there WAS the hot girl thread that was full of small women...*L* William, I could post pictures of men I do not find attractive ( and not referring to bigger guys ) , but, isn't the point of these ' hot ' threads all about people posting what they like? Am I missing something?


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## Green Eyed Fairy (May 10, 2008)

If the point is supposed to be that more women prefer thin men...then welcome to my world. Most men prefer thin women. 

Now that the news flash is over.....


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## mossystate (May 10, 2008)

William said:


> That thread was also a reaction post.
> 
> I am not questioning or criticizing what people post just using the percentages of the totals which reveals a lot about the acceptance (or lack of) of Fat Men.
> 
> William




Well, William, and this is not snark, welcome to the world of preferences. Acceptance is not the same as wanting to date and perhaps develop a romantic relationship with a person. I know that as a Fat Woman, only a certain percentage of the general, heterosexual/bi male world will find me attractive. The men who do not find me attractive..can still...accept me as a human being, deserving of all the happiness and rights that all people should be receiving. They just won't pretend they want to cuddle up to me in a sexual manner...that's all.

The only thing the uneven numbers reveal is that there might be more women into smaller guys..out here...that's all. I hope that more women who are into fat men, make themselves known. I think that would soothe you a bit..I do.


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## William (May 10, 2008)

Hi Mossy

You make it sound as if I am upset because of the choices people made and if you have read my posts on these threads you will see that I only used this to illustrate that experiences of BHMs are no where near as trivial as Fat Acceptance portrays.

I think that Fat Acceptance accepts that there is a finite number of men out there for Fat Women and is just starting to admit that Fat Men are in the same boat as Fat Women in regards to many issues because of their fat.

William



mossystate said:


> Well, William, and this is not snark, welcome to the world of preferences. Acceptance is not the same as wanting to date and perhaps develop a romantic relationship with a person. I know that as a Fat Woman, only a certain percentage of the general, heterosexual/bi male world will find me attractive. The men who do not find me attractive..can still...accept me as a human being, deserving of all the happiness and rights that all people should be receiving. They just won't pretend they want to cuddle up to me in a sexual manner...that's all.
> 
> The only thing the uneven numbers reveal is that there might be more women into smaller guys..out here...that's all. I hope that more women who are into fat men, make themselves known. I think that would soothe you a bit..I do.


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## PolarKat (May 10, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> If the point is supposed to be that more women prefer thin men...then welcome to my world. Most men prefer thin women.
> 
> Now that the news flash is over.....


If we could merge our worlds.. I think we could solve the problem




mossystate said:


> The only thing the uneven numbers reveal is that


They hard to divide without leaving a remainder??


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## Green Eyed Fairy (May 10, 2008)

PolarKat said:


> If we could merge our worlds.. I think we could solve the problem
> 
> 
> 
> They hard to divide without leaving a remainder??




Far as I can tell, they are together. As much as they can exist PEACEFULLY anyway


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## PolarKat (May 10, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Far as I can tell, they are together. As much as they can exist PEACEFULLY anyway



So building this quntum universe thingy, I found plans for on the internet... you're saying it won't work.. crap..:doh: I hope radio shack does refunds..


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## Ruby Ripples (May 11, 2008)

missaf said:


> Power is in the mind of the beholder. There are many role models that are fat that aren't even being mentioned here. Roseanne, sure, but what about Cammryn Mannheim... Orson Welles?
> 
> Many women from this board aren't finding satisfaction with the porn industry in regards to fat men, so they're members of chub sites, or begging for photos here for their spank banks. That's all well and good, but in some ways, it's counterproductive to actual size acceptance for some people.
> 
> And nothing at all is stopping people from expressing their preferences here, or on the Weight Board. There are fetishes within fat sexuality that I have trouble understanding, but if people choose to discuss them, that's fine, I won't feel the need to ridicule or lambast them for doing so.



Hear, hear.


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## William (May 16, 2008)

Hi Missf

The truth is that you will not find many male or female fat bodies out on the celebrity photo websites, there aren't too many of them. 

I think having both a photo stream of male and female slender bodies in a odd way adds balance to Dimension and that may make the huge bandwidth that the threads use worth it.

William







missaf said:


> Power is in the mind of the beholder. There are many role models that are fat that aren't even being mentioned here. Roseanne, sure, but what about Cammryn Mannheim... Orson Welles?
> 
> Many women from this board aren't finding satisfaction with the porn industry in regards to fat men, so they're members of chub sites, or begging for photos here for their spank banks. That's all well and good, but in some ways, it's counterproductive to actual size acceptance for some people.
> 
> And nothing at all is stopping people from expressing their preferences here, or on the Weight Board. There are fetishes within fat sexuality that I have trouble understanding, but if people choose to discuss them, that's fine, I won't feel the need to ridicule or lambast them for doing so.


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## kittymahlberg (Jun 23, 2008)

PolarKat said:


> People say they see UFO's.. the lockness monster.. I've never seen them myself.. so I have to be a bit skeptical if they exist.. Until I see an FFA and I can apply the scientific method to determine their existance, and exact properties...
> It's just an exaggeration. I never met one physically in my 35 years on this planet.. So placing bets to find one tommorow isn't realistic. It would be like that fellow with the lamp.. can't remeber his name..


That, my dear sir, would be Diogenes, who carried a lamp through Athens in broad daylight, looking for one honest man (in vain, it seems).


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