# Observation about this community of ours



## jason'sgottenfat (Aug 9, 2012)

I can not help but notice that there seems to be a lot of people in this community that politically,...and with their values,..lean to the liberal left. I have recently come back to this forum. I can't lie. I seem to be the only social conservative here. It is the one thing about these boards for me that make it an uncomfortable thing for me. I honestly hate the direction our nation (The United States), our society, and our government is going. I am not looking to get a million rabid responses from everyone here. Lord knows I have been rabidly attacked on this forum in the past and online in general. I am just saying that it is incredibly uncomfortable on this forum.


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## Lamia (Aug 9, 2012)

jason'sgottenfat said:


> I can not help but notice that there seems to be a lot of people in this community that politically,...and with their values,..lean to the liberal left. I have recently come back to this forum. I can't lie. I seem to be the only social conservative here. It is the one thing about these boards for me that make it an uncomfortable thing for me. I honestly hate the direction our nation (The United States), our society, and our government is going. I am not looking to get a million rabid responses from everyone here. Lord knows I have been rabidly attacked on this forum in the past and online in general. I am just saying that it is incredibly uncomfortable on this forum.



I would avoid Hyde Park then. Your alternative is start your own forum for conservatives if being among the liberals makes you uncomfortable. Best of luck.


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## PinkPoodle (Aug 9, 2012)

I, for one, am unafiliated. I try not to get involved with political conversations because it just makes me angry. Political conversations or debates tend to make all those involved look like big jerks. So you can hang out with me cause I'd rather talk about other things.


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## penguin (Aug 9, 2012)

jason'sgottenfat said:


> I am just saying that it is incredibly uncomfortable on this forum.



So don't discuss politics. There's a lot more to dims than political opinions.


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## bigmac (Aug 9, 2012)

jason'sgottenfat said:


> I can not help but notice that there seems to be a lot of people in this community that politically,...and with their values,..lean to the liberal left. I have recently come back to this forum. I can't lie. I seem to be the only social conservative here. It is the one thing about these boards for me that make it an uncomfortable thing for me. I honestly hate the direction our nation (The United States), our society, and our government is going. I am not looking to get a million rabid responses from everyone here. Lord knows I have been rabidly attacked on this forum in the past and online in general. I am just saying that it is incredibly uncomfortable on this forum.




Go back in the archives a year or two or three. Radical right wingers and libertarians ruled the roost. For some reason many of these guys (and a few gals) didn't play well with others -- when people challenged their ideas they either responded in ways that ultimately resulted in banishment or voluntarily took their metaphoric balls and went home.


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## Diana_Prince245 (Aug 9, 2012)

If it makes you uncomfortable, don't come here.

Your values likely make others uncomfortable. It's not as if it's a one-way street.


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## MattB (Aug 9, 2012)

jason'sgottenfat said:


> I can not help but notice that there seems to be a lot of people in this community that politically,...and with their values,..lean to the liberal left. I have recently come back to this forum. I can't lie. I seem to be the only social conservative here. It is the one thing about these boards for me that make it an uncomfortable thing for me. I honestly hate the direction our nation (The United States), our society, and our government is going. I am not looking to get a million rabid responses from everyone here. Lord knows I have been rabidly attacked on this forum in the past and online in general. I am just saying that it is incredibly uncomfortable on this forum.



There are conservatives here, myself for one, but despite participating in a few political threads here and there (and being labelled a "duck" once, for some bizarre reason...) I tend to stay away from that sort of thing. There's plenty of other places to get my political fix without bringing it here. This is a social site for me, and I'd like to keep it a pleasant experience. 

My values are very important to me, but they're mine to live. I'd rather live them than argue on the internet. I've participated in local and federal politics in the past, and you can get a whole lot more done volunteering for a cause than letting what people on the internet think, or believe, get you down. If someone here is getting under your skin- block them. 

I'll echo the others, if it makes you uncomfortable I would suggest avoiding Hyde Park and just enjoy the vast majority of the site that's not political. No one can change you if you don't let them. Also, you won't get cooties.


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## Durin (Aug 9, 2012)

I would say that I am mostly libertarian. This isn't really a politics site except for Hyde park.


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## CastingPearls (Aug 9, 2012)

It's very rare that there's reasonable intelligent discourse between opposing political parties here, at least currently. It usually turns into insults, a free-for-all and then before the thread is closed down and infraction points and bans are doled out, a few gifs are posted for hahas signifying the impending demise of the thread which is usually by that point, merciful but not always swift. So, I would suggest, for your peace of mind, to look for a political forum where there's either respectful debate or it's all your political slant and stay here for everything else that suits you.


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## agouderia (Aug 10, 2012)

One element of this community is fat/size acceptance or even the celebration of fat - thus openly defying the current social standard that rejects and ostracizes fat.

Social conservatism by definition aims at maintaining, strengthening and enforcing traditional social standards - so it's an almost logical consequence that it will not be prevalent in the context of this board, since it would mean enduring at least a cognitive dissonance in one (however major) aspect of one's life.


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## Shosh (Aug 10, 2012)

Lamia said:


> I would avoid Hyde Park then. Your alternative is start your own forum for conservatives if being among the liberals makes you uncomfortable. Best of luck.



Why? People can be of differing political persuations here and they should not have to feel uncomfortable about it.

Dimensions should be a place for all kinds of views.


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## Gingembre (Aug 10, 2012)

I'm British, so don't really care about American politics. It's certainly not what I come to Dims for. I find that it's fairly easy to avoid all the political stuff and just concentrate on what interests me. I don't know about the political leanings of most of the people I talk to here, and that's the way I like it!


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## Surlysomething (Aug 10, 2012)

Dude, you have less than 30 posts and you're making judgements already?
I would say...watch, learn, participate. Or don't.

You can only be a part of a community if you're a part of it, right?


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## immobile1 (Aug 10, 2012)

It is the nature of a group fighting for one's rights to lean left as the fight begins or is still not fully recognized. Once accepted, a group would then fall into a more natural state reflecting its participants, either staying left, moving the center or to the right.

Just as Churchill said about individuals, the quote below may also apply to groups:

"If you're not a liberal at 20 you have no heart, if you're not a conservative by the time you're 40 you have no brain."

But America's current divide is almost as bad as pre-civil war times. One side can't compromise with the other. This is why nothing gets done and we get passed by other countries. 

The only bright spot for anyone in result of our suffering is that the rich are getting far richer. 

Otherwise, the US is a stagnate country. All we export are tobacco and movies and music, everything else is developed here but manufactured somewhere else.


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## bbwsrule (Aug 10, 2012)

I for one consider myself "center right" but having dabbled in Hyde Park, I no longer do. This site really isn't about politics to me.

I suppose on one level, gay rights being among them, suggest that Conservatives (I don't label myself as such or anything else really) are less tolerant and might therefore be less tolerant of size acceptance. There are plenty of people like myself who think Gays should have rights to marry etc but are economicially more conservative. So in that sense alone it is hard to generalize.

However, with size acceptance it does seem to me that the most engergetically-opposed to fatness might be some on the left (not here of course, but in society). Witness some of the initiatives in NYC for example.
I think FA and fat hate runs across the spectrum of society in general.

In any event, hope the OP can enjoy other stuff on this site. I certainly do!


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## Ho Ho Tai (Aug 10, 2012)

jason'sgottenfat said:


> I can not help but notice that there seems to be a lot of people in this community that politically,...and with their values,..lean to the liberal left. I have recently come back to this forum. I can't lie. I seem to be the only social conservative here. It is the one thing about these boards for me that make it an uncomfortable thing for me. I honestly hate the direction our nation (The United States), our society, and our government is going. I am not looking to get a million rabid responses from everyone here. Lord knows I have been rabidly attacked on this forum in the past and online in general. I am just saying that it is incredibly uncomfortable on this forum.



This is not a direct response, or challenge, to your comments, but I think it fits here. 

I had a recent off-board exchange with one of our Dimensions folks. It was primarily about biking, but the idea of community crept in also. Your use of that word prompted me to repeat my message here.

I am, generally speaking, a progressive, but not entirely so. I do believe that people should stand on their own two feet when they can - and then offer a hand to those who cannot. Mrs Ho Ho and I stand on our own feet pretty well yet, though mine are a bit wobbly at times. We do reach out our hands to those who need help regaining their feet - and sometimes find that their hand is supporting us as well.

That, to me, is the nature of community.

Quoting myself: "In my old age, I figure it is part of my role to lend support in all sorts of ways - smiling, or smiling back at another's smile, offering compliments, when meaningful, acknowledging the success of another, or offering sympathy for their pain. At my age, I've just about done it all and empathy comes as easily as sympathy. We are lucky to be in a position to offer more concrete support also, when that seems appropriate.

All of these actions have in common the appreciation of communities, whether local, on-board, or world wide. All of these action are meant to strengthen the webwork of community, the very cradle of civilization.

This quotation is variously attributed to Paul Wellstone or to Jim Hightower's father: "When everyone does better, everyone does better." It is one of the two bumper stickers on my vehicle and one of the mottos we live by.

Bikers and biking seem to form a community of their own, but not a community limited just to them. Folks who refine their personal strengths and social contacts on the trail tend to carry these into their larger lives as well. "Trail buddies never leave trail buddies behind" and that works pretty well for communities also."


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## cinnamitch (Aug 10, 2012)

Ho Ho Tai said:


> This is not a direct response, or challenge, to your comments, but I think it fits here.
> 
> I had a recent off-board exchange with one of our Dimensions folks. It was primarily about biking, but the idea of community crept in also. Your use of that word prompted me to repeat my message here.
> 
> ...



Ho Ho you quote one of my favorite men, Paul Wellstone. I miss having him in Minnesota politics and I wish we still had him with us in these trying times to remind us that we are all in this life TOGETHER.


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## Ned Sonntag (Aug 10, 2012)

agouderia said:


> One element of this community is fat/size acceptance or even the celebration of fat - thus openly defying the current social standard that rejects and ostracizes fat.
> 
> Social conservatism by definition aims at maintaining, strengthening and enforcing traditional social standards - so it's an almost logical consequence that it will not be prevalent in the context of this board, since it would mean enduring at least a cognitive dissonance in one (however major) aspect of one's life.


 THANK YOU.:bow: DIMz grew out of NAAFA which started in '68 as an offshoot of the civil-rights movement. Capital-L Libertarianism didn't come along 'til '77 after the 'Nam debacle had forced the Right to STFU for 3 years. They had to get their foot back in the door somehow and they certainly managed. The 'right to be left alone to be fat' is pretty much a male issue.


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## bbwbud (Aug 10, 2012)

As a fellow conservative, I agree that this is not a place where you will find many who are like minded. One of the things that attracts me to conservativism is that we think not everything in life is political (amen), and when I come here, I generally prefer to leave my politics at the door, in the hope that others would do the same. One of the drawbacks of a life lived online is a greater willingness to preach politically to others, as I have learned from all to many people on Facebook and other forums. I think you have learned, maybe later than most that many who praise the values of diversity and tolerance, don't extend those feelings to ideology.


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## moore2me (Aug 11, 2012)

jason'sgottenfat said:


> I can not help but notice that there seems to be a lot of people in this community that politically,...and with their values,..lean to the liberal left. I have recently come back to this forum. I can't lie. I seem to be the only social conservative here. It is the one thing about these boards for me that make it an uncomfortable thing for me. I honestly hate the direction our nation (The United States), our society, and our government is going. I am not looking to get a million rabid responses from everyone here. Lord knows I have been rabidly attacked on this forum in the past and online in general. I am just saying that it is incredibly uncomfortable on this forum.





CastingPearls said:


> It's very rare that there's reasonable intelligent discourse between opposing political parties here, at least currently. It usually turns into insults, a free-for-all and then before the thread is closed down and infraction points and bans are doled out, a few gifs are posted for hahas signifying the impending demise of the thread which is usually by that point, merciful but not always swift.
> (snipped) . . . .





Shosh said:


> Why? People can be of differing political persuations here and they should not have to feel uncomfortable about it.
> 
> Dimensions should be a place for all kinds of views.





Gingembre said:


> I'm British, so don't really care about American politics. It's certainly not what I come to Dims for. I find that it's fairly easy to avoid all the political stuff and just concentrate on what interests me. (snipped . . . .





immobile1 said:


> (snipped) . . . .
> Just as Churchill said about individuals, the quote below may also apply to groups:
> 
> "If you're not a liberal at 20 you have no heart, if you're not a conservative by the time you're 40 you have no brain."
> ...



Dear Jason,

I agree with part of your complaint in that at times the DIMS community can be very opinionated. However, sometimes it swings to the left (individual rights and fat tolerance) and sometimes it swings to the right (crime and punishment & world relationships). I really like the quote that immobile offered that is attributed to Churchill - yes, it does seems we can change our political views as we age - usually from liberal to conservative.

What I would like to see more of here are true debates without the name calling, cat calling, booing, hissing, and spitting - and let me say I am guilty of violating these type of attacks just as much as others. *I think that true debate is a valuable tool to state important truths and inform others of the facts in the "other side of the story". Attempting to persuade our peers and speaking out about what we see as truths is one of the important rights in modern societies*. We just need to learn to talk with enthusiasm and passion without turning into pit bulls and going for each others' throats. 

And as Gingembre commented, America is not the only player in this game of life. There are many other countries with issues just as important as those in the US. Showing more concern towards other countries, their problems and people will help erase some of the ugly American comments and accusations - and we have a lot to learn from others.


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## Blackhawk2293 (Aug 11, 2012)

jason'sgottenfat said:


> I can not help but notice that there seems to be a lot of people in this community that politically,...and with their values,..lean to the liberal left. I have recently come back to this forum. I can't lie. I seem to be the only social conservative here. It is the one thing about these boards for me that make it an uncomfortable thing for me. I honestly hate the direction our nation (The United States), our society, and our government is going. I am not looking to get a million rabid responses from everyone here. Lord knows I have been rabidly attacked on this forum in the past and online in general. I am just saying that it is incredibly uncomfortable on this forum.



I prefer not to label myself as liberal or conservative or whatever other labels are out there. To me, politics is all about a bunch of silver spoons who have everything arguing with each other about what they believe "the people" want when they (1) have no idea, (2) don't really give a shit, and (3) are so unwilling to give a shit that they use diversionary topics to block "the people" from speaking out about what matters to them and what's worrying them.

If I were to label myself I would give the label "annoyed"! LOL!!!


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## Ned Sonntag (Aug 11, 2012)

Blackhawk2293 said:


> I prefer not to label myself as liberal or conservative or whatever other labels are out there. To me, politics is all about a bunch of silver spoons who have everything arguing with each other about what they believe "the people" want when they (1) have no idea, (2) don't really give a shit, and (3) are so unwilling to give a shit that they use diversionary topics to block "the people" from speaking out about what matters to them and what's worrying them.
> 
> If I were to label myself I would give the label "annoyed"! LOL!!!


Less Epictetus and more Diabeetus.:eat2:


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## Lamia (Aug 11, 2012)

Shosh said:


> Why? People can be of differing political persuations here and they should not have to feel uncomfortable about it.
> 
> Dimensions should be a place for all kinds of views.



He's the one complaining about being uncomfortable around people with different views than his own. That's why I suggested he find someplace that caters only to his viewpoints. I didn't suggest anything about Dimensions not being diverse. Not sure how you misunderstood that.


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## Miss Vickie (Aug 12, 2012)

Jason, you will always be around people with different views. I think it's a bit of an exaggeration to say you're the "only" social conservative here but even if you were -- so what? Are you here to discuss politics or to talk about size related issues?

If you want to talk politics -- post in Hyde Park and you'll see you're not the only one who believes as you do. If you don't want to talk about politics, then the answer is simple -- don't.

If the environment is uncomfortable for you because there are people who believe differently, then I don't know what to tell you. Maybe find an environment more conducive to your belief?


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## Hathor (Aug 12, 2012)

jason'sgottenfat said:


> I can not help but notice that there seems to be a lot of people in this community that politically,...and with their values,..lean to the liberal left. I have recently come back to this forum. I can't lie. I seem to be the only social conservative here. It is the one thing about these boards for me that make it an uncomfortable thing for me. I honestly hate the direction our nation (The United States), our society, and our government is going. I am not looking to get a million rabid responses from everyone here. Lord knows I have been rabidly attacked on this forum in the past and online in general. I am just saying that it is incredibly uncomfortable on this forum.



I'm ultra-conservative myself. It's why about 95% of my time on this forum is spent not logging in and only coming to look at the fashion links when I'm shopping. That's a wealth of information there.


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## Jello404 (Aug 13, 2012)

Just like a conservative would start ruffling unnecessarily feathers.Classic.


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## bigmac (Aug 13, 2012)

Jello404 said:


> Just like a conservative would start ruffling unnecessarily feathers.Classic.



Yes. It's their entitled attitude -- they seem to believe that all the world should obviously agree with them.


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## Mathias (Aug 13, 2012)

Agreeing with all who've said to avoid Hyde Park if you think it'll take away from your experience here. Just keep in mind that it doesn't speak for the entire site nor is it the only thing the site has to offer. I usually stay in the lounge and things are cool.




Jello404 said:


> Just like a conservative would start ruffling unnecessarily feathers.Classic.





bigmac said:


> Yes. It's their entitled attitude -- they seem to believe that all the world should obviously agree with them.



^^^^

Broad brush statements like that are what I think the OP is talking about. The both of you would be up in arms if someone said that about Liberals. Not all conservatives are like you describe.


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## EMH1701 (Aug 13, 2012)

I agree with each major party about 50% of the time. Hence I tend to avoid politics.


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## bigmac (Aug 14, 2012)

Mathias said:


> ...
> 
> Broad brush statements like that are what I think the OP is talking about. *The both of you would be up in arms if someone said that about Liberals*. Not all conservatives are like you describe.



Actually no, people have said much worse about me and I've never whined (or reported anyone). When I put my ideas out there I fully expect people to respond (a percentage in inappropriate ways).


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## Mathias (Aug 14, 2012)

bigmac said:


> Actually no, people have said much worse about me and I've never whined (or reported anyone). When I put my ideas out there I fully expect people to respond (a percentage in inappropriate ways).



You still don't get it. Making blanket statements adds nothing to either side of the argument.


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## jason'sgottenfat (Aug 14, 2012)

WOW,.......
I have been away for a few days and I see that this post actually really hit home so much as to end up in a few pages of discussion. Thank you to those that came out to say something. It did honestly make me feel a little better. I didn't intend to start any sort of DIM's war. I am concerned for the politics and culture war here in the states and my nation of origin. (Eire) There were a few responses that were regretably what I was talking about. All in all, I do feel somewhat relieved here at least as far as this forum is concerned.


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## Saoirse (Aug 16, 2012)

time to put on your pancake eating shoes.


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## Miss Vickie (Aug 25, 2012)

jason'sgottenfat said:


> WOW,.......
> I have been away for a few days and I see that this post actually really hit home so much as to end up in a few pages of discussion. Thank you to those that came out to say something. It did honestly make me feel a little better. I didn't intend to start any sort of DIM's war. I am concerned for the politics and culture war here in the states and my nation of origin. (Eire) There were a few responses that were regretably what I was talking about. All in all, I do feel somewhat relieved here at least as far as this forum is concerned.



Oh, honey, two pages of discussion around here. We have the ability to beat a dead horse with 30 pages of nonsense. So calling this a "Dim's war" is hyperbole.

Enjoy your time here, participate in things that interest you, and if you don't want to talk about politics -- don't. It's really that simple. Had you not mentioned your political affiliation in your original post I wouldn't have known (or cared). Now I know, but I still don't care. It would only be relevant to me if you and I happened to be having a discussion in Hyde Park. We're not so... your political affiliation is moot.


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## Jim Miller (Aug 29, 2012)

jason'sgottenfat said:


> I can not help but notice that there seems to be a lot of people in this community that politically,...and with their values,..lean to the liberal left. ... I seem to be the only social conservative here.



Many people here claim they don't like politics. (They don't realize that fat acceptance is an expression of politics.) Because fat acceptance does not yet have rigid ideological lines, you will find people here from all parts of the political spectrum, as well as people who identify as apolitical (again, despite the fact that fat acceptance is inherently political).

So, if you feel like you're alone here, that probably says more about your need to be surrounded by like-minded people than it does about the composition of Dimensions. You can easily participate in the community here without ever getting into a political discussion on a topic that doesn't have to do with fat acceptance.

However, I also think you're on to something. Even though the full political spectrum is represented here, I think people at Dimensions generally are _more likely_ to be socially liberal than to be socially conservative. And it's not just Dimensions. This is true of the entire fat acceptance movement.

Consider the basic justifications for fat acceptance from an ideological standpoint. Conservative fat acceptance typically asserts that people should be left alone to do with their bodies as they please. That's about it. There isn't much intellectual breadth.

Liberal fat acceptance, on the other hand, is all about humanizing people who have an alternative lifestyle, and building acceptance for them among society at large. This is a much more welcoming and intellectually robust perspective around which to participate in fat acceptance. In contrast to the conservative version of "leave me alone," the liberal version of fat acceptance doesn't encourage the isolation and indifference of diverse people. It encourages people to speak up, to express themselves, to step out into the world and be true to who they are.

Social conservatism hates that. Just replace "fat person" with "atheist," or "lesbian," or "immigrant," or "welfare recipient." In the United States of today, social conservatism spends all its energy trying to _stop_ the advance of social justice and the spread of tolerance for people of all shapes and creeds. Social conservatism is singularly bent on enforcing right-wing Christian values upon our whole society. And if any of the rest of us don't like that, if we speak out against it, you wonderful traditionalist folks tell us that we are free leave the country.

Social conservatives want to be free to express themselves as much as they want, but they'd very much rather that everyone else shut up and get out of sight, because, as their logic goes, it was right-wing Christians who founded the country and therefore this country rightfully belongs to social conservatives only and not to all of us.

So far, "fat acceptance" hasn't threatened social conservatism. The movement is still too much of a niche to attract the mass media's attention, and in lieu of such attention most people don't realize that fat acceptance is an offshoot of the civil rights movement, the sexual equality movement, and the broader left-wing pursuit of social justice. (Some folks up thread made this point too. I want to reiterate it.)

Consider, for instance, that fat acceptance heavily overlaps with feminism, because fat women get treated so much worse than fat men. The overwhelming majority of indie fat acceptance blogs on the Internet are written by non-Christian, left-wing, fat women who have had it up to their necks with being discriminated against six ways from Sunday. Despite the fact that conservatives here tend to be all for fat-acceptance, they don't have any kind words for feminists--even though feminism comes from exactly the same place as fat acceptance does. You just don't understand that yet.

Once you do, perhaps you won't feel that the country is moving in such a bad direction after all. And perhaps you won't feel so uncomfortable at Dimensions. Or maybe not. Perhaps you'll turn against fat people and start calling us a bunch of liberal slobs mooching off the national dole. Who knows?



jason'sgottenfat said:


> It is the one thing about these boards for me that make it an uncomfortable thing for me.



Believe me, buddy, these are not liberal boards. Dimensions is a pretty neutral place. In Hyde Park I was recently told flat-out by someone who claims to be a liberal that human trafficking doesn't exist. (Never mind the fact that I've been an activist against it for years and know a number of people who have personally been trafficked.) On a genuinely liberal web forum, he'd have been laughed off the premises or even banned. Here, not a squeak. If you are uncomfortable with an environment like this...I humbly suggest you need a thicker skin.


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## Nenona (Sep 7, 2012)

agouderia said:


> One element of this community is fat/size acceptance or even the celebration of fat - thus openly defying the current social standard that rejects and ostracizes fat.
> 
> Social conservatism by definition aims at maintaining, strengthening and enforcing traditional social standards - so it's an almost logical consequence that it will not be prevalent in the context of this board, since it would mean enduring at least a cognitive dissonance in one (however major) aspect of one's life.



This.
It doesn't help that I live in a place where I was dragged to weight loss groups run by local churches.
Because Jesus only loves thin people, apparently.

But yes, I'm a dirty liberal, and I get along with conservatives as long as they aren't sexist, racist, ableist or sizest. They do exist.
It just bugs me. I dealt with crap all my life for being a woman and being fat. I'm not about to watch someone else give crap to someone for being fat or disabled.


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## EMH1701 (Sep 7, 2012)

Nenona said:


> This.
> It doesn't help that I live in a place where I was dragged to weight loss groups run by local churches.
> Because Jesus only loves thin people, apparently.



Much of the hate I got as a child was in the church school I went to. Besides that, my late mother's religious beliefs factored in with her fat-phobia.

Now, I know that not everyone who hates fat people is Christian, and I know that not all Christians hate fat people.

But when you are a pre-teen and your mother is constantly telling you things like you're going to burn in hell for not being thin enough, yeah, it cuts deep. 

Here's the thing though, I've also seen left wing churches hating on fat people. It's not just the conservative ones. Apparently when it comes to prejudice, it is equal-opportunity to hate on people of size. Go figure.


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