# High fructose corn syrup vs. Sugar?



## stan_der_man (May 31, 2009)

I'm curious... Does anybody else have issues with fructose? I hear over and over again that fructose and sugar are basically the same, but foods or drinks with fructose or corn syrup just don't agree with me but I seem to be able to handle sugar.

I've long ago had to give up sodas because most of them in the U.S. now use corn syrup instead of sugar. Only recently have I tried drinking Hanson's sodas which use cane sugar, those I can handle.

When I drink sodas with corn syrup I get a headache, a pain in the back of my head in particular or I get a stomach ache. Same with hot dogs or whatever type of food that has fructose in it, only a mild stomach ache with that, but I don't get a stomach ache eating kosher hot dogs without fructose.

Any thoughts?


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## Ernest Nagel (May 31, 2009)

Or maybe you'll find this helpful? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMo3gOWC8h0

Srsly. lots of junk science re HFCS but it's hard to avoid. If the gubmint keeps subsidizing ethanol and Obama normalizes relations with Cuba watch for sugar to re-emerge as the sweetener of choice. Sadly, all health issues boil down to economics. Sorry if that's a too HP answer to your personal dilemma, Stan? JMO :bow:


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## William (May 31, 2009)

Stan

You need to stock up on Passover Coke!!

William




fa_man_stan said:


> I'm curious... Does anybody else have issues with fructose? I hear over and over again that fructose and sugar are basically the same, but foods or drinks with fructose or corn syrup just don't agree with me but I seem to be able to handle sugar.
> 
> I've long ago had to give up sodas because most of them in the U.S. now use corn syrup instead of sugar. Only recently have I tried drinking Hanson's sodas which use cane sugar, those I can handle.
> 
> ...


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## Elfcat (May 31, 2009)

I have heard that Mexican Coke still has sugar (look for the glass bottles in Mexican grocery shops) because they never developed a palate for corn syrup - and they're the original breeders of corn!

The last time I was in Safeway early this week, I noticed that there is a Pepsi Natural drink. It's very innovative, you know what the ingredients are? Water, sugar and kola nut extract. Who would've come up with that? Oh yeah, I forgot, the people who invented cola!


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## stan_der_man (Jun 1, 2009)

missaf said:


> I recently met a lady at a medical conference who self-diagnosed herself, then later her doctor agreed with her, that she suffers from fructose intolerance.
> 
> http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/fructose-intolerance/AN01574



Thanks for the info Missaf. Come to think of it, there are some fruits that have the same effect on me such as fruits like peaches. I've never really known the difference between fructose and corn syrup... I assume that corn syrup is a type of fructose?



Ernest Nagel said:


> Or maybe you'll find this helpful? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMo3gOWC8h0
> 
> Srsly. lots of junk science re HFCS but it's hard to avoid. If the gubmint keeps subsidizing ethanol and Obama normalizes relations with Cuba watch for sugar to re-emerge as the sweetener of choice. Sadly, all health issues boil down to economics. Sorry if that's a too HP answer to your personal dilemma, Stan? JMO :bow:



I completely agree Nagel, and thanks for the info. I actually did find a Mexican grocery store that used to sell Mexican Coke (with sugar), but they had to stop selling it because their franchise agreements forbid them to do so. BTW... Many years ago when I started suspecting that fructose gave me stomach aches, I found a store online called something like "The Pop Shoppe" in the Dallas area (I completely forgot where... it may have been Ft. Worth...?) they sold many sodas with real cane sugar. My sister and her husband (who lived in Plano) took me there and we learned all sorts of things about different sodas. I found out that Dr. Pepper (also made in the Dallas / Ft. Worth area?) sells the original Dr. Pepper with sugar locally, but won't distribute it further because it tastes better than the Dr. Pepper with fructose (fructose being a cheaper ingredient, they don't want consumers preferring the one with sugar...)



William said:


> Stan
> 
> You need to stock up on Passover Coke!!
> 
> William



When I was in that place "The Pop Shoppe" I mentioned above, I tried the Dutch version of Coke which had sugar in it, I thought it tasted better and it didn't give me a stomach ache from what I remember. Just curious, where can you get Passover Coke from?



Elfcat said:


> I have heard that Mexican Coke still has sugar (look for the glass bottles in Mexican grocery shops) because they never developed a palate for corn syrup - and they're the original breeders of corn!
> 
> The last time I was in Safeway early this week, I noticed that there is a Pepsi Natural drink. It's very innovative, you know what the ingredients are? Water, sugar and kola nut extract. Who would've come up with that? Oh yeah, I forgot, the people who invented cola!



That was the whole thing from what I understood of the franchise agreements that the Mexican grocery store had problems with. The Coca-Cola Corporation franchise agreements required the contracted stores to only sell products that they (the Coca-Cola Corp.) allow, and forbid them to import Coca-Cola products that are marketed for other areas or countries... Mexican Coke for example. I also read that over and over again, people preferred cane sugar to fructose so the beverage companies (Coca-Cola and Pepsi) made sure that they only had fructose based products available in the U.S. and no sugar based products that could compete with them (and be less profitable...) As Nagel said... it's all economics.


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## HottiMegan (Jun 1, 2009)

Our local Costco sells sugar coke by the case in bottles. I don't like non-diet soda if i drink it. (water's my beverage of choice)


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## Sandie S-R (Jun 1, 2009)

fa_man_stan said:


> I'm curious... Does anybody else have issues with fructose? I hear over and over again that fructose and sugar are basically the same, but foods or drinks with fructose or corn syrup just don't agree with me but I seem to be able to handle sugar.
> 
> I've long ago had to give up sodas because most of them in the U.S. now use corn syrup instead of sugar. Only recently have I tried drinking Hanson's sodas which use cane sugar, those I can handle.
> 
> ...



I'm in complete agreement, Stan. Guy and I both read labels carefully when shopping and avoid high fructose corn syrup like the plague. 

It give us both headaches, and I know (being highly insulin resistant) that it affects my body in other ways I just don't need. If I'm going to eat something sweet - I'll opt for real sugar (over high fructose corn syrup) every time.


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## stan_der_man (Jun 1, 2009)

HottiMegan said:


> Our local Costco sells sugar coke by the case in bottles. I don't like non-diet soda if i drink it. (water's my beverage of choice)



I'll take a look next time I go to our local Costco! Speaking of which, I recently found out that our local Costco (in San Bernardino) has been test marketing bulk packages of Hanson's cane sugar sodas (unfortunately their root beer isn't bulk packaged...) Another interesting thing speaking of Hanson's and franchise agreements... I've noticed places like Von's (I believe they are Albertson's or Safeway in NorCal...?) that sell root beer like A&W (or whatever... also containing fructose) sell Hanson's sodas, but not Hanson's cane sugar root beer, which is reeeeaaaalllllyyy good! I've only seen Hanson's root beer at Trader Joe's.



Sandie S-R said:


> I'm in complete agreement, Stan. Guy and I both read labels carefully when shopping and avoid high fructose corn syrup like the plague.
> 
> It give us both headaches, and I know (being highly insulin resistant) that it affects my body in other ways I just don't need. If I'm going to eat something sweet - I'll opt for real sugar (over high fructose corn syrup) every time.



Actually I think I know those other ways of effecting one's body you are talking about... I get effected that way sometimes also. The thing I'm just so puzzled about is why do foods like hot dogs and some meats have corn syrup in them? I've found that many food products have corn syrup in them that just don't make sense. I've also found it difficult to find foods let alone beverages without some sort of fructose in them. And the foods you do find without fructose in them are more expensive, like the kosher hot dogs I usually get (which are sold in bulk at our local Costco BTW...)


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## William (Jun 1, 2009)

It appears that some COSTCOs in California carry Mexican Coke

http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/397449

William




fa_man_stan said:


> When I was in that place "The Pop Shoppe" I mentioned above, I tried the Dutch version of Coke which had sugar in it, I thought it tasted better and it didn't give me a stomach ache from what I remember. Just curious, where can you get Passover Coke from?


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## Canonista (Jun 1, 2009)

Find yourself some Pepsi or Mountain Dew "Throwback".

Both are made with real cane sugar. It's supposed to be a limited time offer, but if we buy enough they'll see the demand for it and keep it on the market.


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## Tad (Jun 1, 2009)

In general high fructose corn syrup seems to be pretty nasty stuff. Standard sucrose is essentially a glucose molecule bound with a fructose molecule, and they break apart in the body pretty easily. If I recall correctly the body doesnt read fructose intake well, basically it reads how much glucose you take in and assumes that you have equal amounts of fructose, or something like that. Or something like that, Im sure others here could tell you far more about the biology of it all. But yah, from all Ive read it is good stuff for everyone to avoid.

As to how to avoid it, I hate to say it but pretty much by reading labels and avoiding processed food. My wife is lactose intolerant so weve been doing this for years because lactose shows up in all sorts of things, and recently Ive had my own food intolerances get worse, so have also had to work at avoiding certain things. It has taken some time, but once we got used to made from scratch we find that most processed food really doesnt taste that good to us; it almost all relies on some combination of lots of salt, extra sweetening, and often onion or garlic powder, rather than trying to use quality ingredients or interesting flavoring. (lactose isnt used so much as a flavoring, more as a binder for other things I think. Like most flavored potato chips contain lactose).


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## stan_der_man (Jun 1, 2009)

HottiMegan said:


> ...
> (water's my beverage of choice)


I just read over the posts again... I also mostly drink water myself. I read somewhere that practically all drinks with sugar (fructose or whatever...) actually dehydrate you because you have to metabolize the sugar which requires hydration. Luckily we have fairly good tap water where we live. I like to keep glass bottles of cold water in the refrigerator for most of my drinking.



William said:


> It appears that some COSTCOs in California carry Mexican Coke
> 
> http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/397449
> 
> William



Thanks for the link William! After I leave work in a few minutes I'm going to swing by our local Costco and see if they do have the Mexican Coke just out of curiosity. I'll post whether or not they have it here.




Canonista said:


> Find yourself some Pepsi or Mountain Dew "Throwback".
> 
> Both are made with real cane sugar. It's supposed to be a limited time offer, but if we buy enough they'll see the demand for it and keep it on the market.



Thanks for the info Canonista! I did a web search of the "Throwback" beverages you mentioned...

Here is a link describing Pepsi and Mountain Dew Throwback...

Below is an interesting quote from the link that caught my eye... the beverage companies seem to believe (or advocate...) that HFCS (high fructose corn syrup) is metabolized the same as sugar... (Yeah.. and cigarettes aren't bad for you either... )



> *What prompted the rollout of Pepsi/Mountain Dew Throwback?*
> 
> Here's the official press release spin on the purpose of the Throwback line: "'As we revamp our brand with our 'refresh everything' campaign, we want to give a nod to the fun things of the past," said Anamaria Irazabal, director of marketing, Pepsi-Cola North America Beverages. "For some, it will be a trip down memory lane but for others, it will be a chance to experience a new twist on their favorite brands'."
> 
> When I followed up regarding the removal of high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) and the current debate over the use of that sweetener, Pepsi replied that "these products were not created because of any health concerns. There is a lot of misinformation circulating about HFCS, but the truth is that it's made from corn and contains no artificial or synthetic ingredients or color additives. HFCS is essentially the same as table sugar and is metabolized the same."





edx said:


> In general high fructose corn syrup seems to be pretty nasty stuff. Standard sucrose is essentially a glucose molecule bound with a fructose molecule, and they break apart in the body pretty easily. If I recall correctly the body doesnt read fructose intake well, basically it reads how much glucose you take in and assumes that you have equal amounts of fructose, or something like that. Or something like that, Im sure others here could tell you far more about the biology of it all. But yah, from all Ive read it is good stuff for everyone to avoid.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the chemistry aspect of it Ed! That's what I've heard from the biologists where I work... that it is sort of like sugar but it really isn't. The thing I've always wondered is how do they actually make corn syrup? The beverage companies (and food companies) always list corn syrup or fructose as a "natural product", that nothing is added to it. But I would imagine there is some processing involved in getting the "syrup" our of corn? More so than processing sugarcane I would think.

BTW, my wife also recently discovered that she is lactose intolerant... I'll pass on the information about some chips having lactose in them.


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## Tad (Jun 2, 2009)

Stan, I was going to PM, but you seem to have that turned off.....so I'll spam this thread a bit on lactose.

It shows up in all sorts of crazy stuff--places where you would not normally use milk at all, but it is not being used as milk but as some sort of binder. So for her sake you both need to start really reading packaging. It might be in that can of chili, or in the premade hamburger patty, or fish sticks, or.....

Good luck!


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## Red (Jun 2, 2009)

I know us Brits felt a bit 'wrong' when we came to visit the States last year. As it was the first time we'd been there we had no idea things like 'Coke' and bread (!!!) contained completely different ingredients to the stuff back home. I remember a couple of us feeling headachy with a sore tummy and we put it down to this. I am however still really jealous that you lot have Trader Joes and we don't, I'd LOVE a store like that here!


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## HottiMegan (Jun 2, 2009)

fa_man_stan said:


> I just read over the posts again... I also mostly drink water myself. I read somewhere that practically all drinks with sugar (fructose or whatever...) actually dehydrate you because you have to metabolize the sugar which requires hydration. Luckily we have fairly good tap water where we live. I like to keep glass bottles of cold water in the refrigerator for most of my drinking.



We too have great tap water. And Von's is Safeway up here 
I limit my iced tea drinking because it can dehydrate you too. (I learned this from a nutritionist, even though i drink it unsweetened) We bought an ice machine a couple summers ago so i keep my drinks icy cold


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## Indy (Jun 3, 2009)

If you like lemon (I do) San Pellegrino make a great lemonota (sp) soda that's very refreshing and is made with cane sugar. It comes both in cans and bottles. They also make a orange one which I haven't tried. It's expensive but a nice treat, makes a great wine spritzer also!


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## stan_der_man (Jun 3, 2009)

edx said:


> Stan, I was going to PM, but you seem to have that turned off.....so I'll spam this thread a bit on lactose.
> 
> It shows up in all sorts of crazy stuff--places where you would not normally use milk at all, but it is not being used as milk but as some sort of binder. So for her sake you both need to start really reading packaging. It might be in that can of chili, or in the premade hamburger patty, or fish sticks, or.....
> 
> Good luck!



Thanks for the info Ed, I'll pass it along to Mtnmaiden. She is watching out for things that contain lactose.



HottiMegan said:


> We too have great tap water. And Von's is Safeway up here
> I limit my iced tea drinking because it can dehydrate you too. (I learned this from a nutritionist, even though i drink it unsweetened) We bought an ice machine a couple summers ago so i keep my drinks icy cold



I actually went cold turkey on everything caffeinated for a while because caffeine makes me jittery (and doesn't particularly awaken me...) But I have since started drinking ice tea again on occasion. From what I remember Mtnmaiden telling me, I believe it is caffeine that dehydrates also?



Indy said:


> If you like lemon (I do) San Pellegrino make a great lemonota (sp) soda that's very refreshing and is made with cane sugar. It comes both in cans and bottles. They also make a orange one which I haven't tried. It's expensive but a nice treat, makes a great wine spritzer also!



I do like lemon, that sounds like a good drink Indy! I sometimes drink Perrier mineral water with added lemon, but only on occasion when it's on sale (it can also be a bit pricey...)



Red said:


> I know us Brits felt a bit 'wrong' when we came to visit the States last year. As it was the first time we'd been there we had no idea things like 'Coke' and bread (!!!) contained completely different ingredients to the stuff back home. I remember a couple of us feeling headachy with a sore tummy and we put it down to this. I am however still really jealous that you lot have Trader Joes and we don't, I'd LOVE a store like that here!



Oh yes... Trader Joes's! I do appreciate having a store like them in the area. I must say that I do very much admire the Europeans, I noticed in Germany (as I assume it is in the UK...), where I have visited a few times, that the food ingredients are much more natural, or at least don't have any corn syrup (or not as much...) that I saw. I think there is more of a tradition in Europe to keep food supplies local (or perhaps out of necessity...) and less industrialized food from what I've seen.



Reporting back on my trip to Costco... I purchased another good stock of Hanson's cane soda. The 24 can combo pack containing Mandarin, Cherry Vanilla, Pomegranate and Kiwi Strawberry cost $6.99. Definitely a savings over purchasing them by the six pack, even at TJoe's. I spoke with the beverage guy at Costco, he said that he believed San Bernardino was one of a few Costco stores test marketing Hanson's. The Costco in SBdo did not have the Mexican Coke. When I asked the beverage guy about this, he said again, that different Costco stores are more than likely test marketing different items so it will probably vary at different stores. I also purchased a couple of packages of Hebrew National Kosher Franks (the standard size hot dogs...) They cost $9.99 for 4 packages containing 7 hot dogs each. From what I've heard, kosher products are usually (always?) required to contain natural products (and their definition of "natural" doesn't include corn syrup...?) Interestingly enough, I had a Muslim co-worker who told me that he purchases kosher products when he couldn't readily find hallal products (the Islamic equivalent of Kosher) because the standards are fairly close.


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## Ernest Nagel (Jun 4, 2009)

Just an interesting piece re FDA food labeling regs and enforcement. Dr. Mercola is a bit of an over-the-top wingnut on some topics but this sounds about right.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...Labels-Can-Fool-Even-the-Smartest-People.aspx


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## comperic2003 (Jun 4, 2009)

edx said:


> In general high fructose corn syrup seems to be pretty nasty stuff.



No credible scientific evidence supports that statement.



edx said:


> If I recall correctly the body doesnt read fructose intake well, basically it reads how much glucose you take in and assumes that you have equal amounts of fructose, or something like that.



If that were correct, then, your body would have trouble digesting Honey.


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## Sandie S-R (Jun 4, 2009)

fa_man_stan said:


> I'll take a look next time I go to our local Costco! Speaking of which, I recently found out that our local Costco (in San Bernardino) has been test marketing bulk packages of Hanson's cane sugar sodas (unfortunately their root beer isn't bulk packaged...) Another interesting thing speaking of Hanson's and franchise agreements... I've noticed places like Von's (I believe they are Albertson's or Safeway in NorCal...?) that sell root beer like A&W (or whatever... also containing fructose) sell Hanson's sodas, but not Hanson's cane sugar root beer, which is reeeeaaaalllllyyy good! I've only seen Hanson's root beer at Trader Joe's.
> 
> 
> 
> Actually I think I know those other ways of effecting one's body you are talking about... I get effected that way sometimes also. The thing I'm just so puzzled about is why do foods like hot dogs and some meats have corn syrup in them? I've found that many food products have corn syrup in them that just don't make sense. I've also found it difficult to find foods let alone beverages without some sort of fructose in them. And the foods you do find without fructose in them are more expensive, like the kosher hot dogs I usually get (which are sold in bulk at our local Costco BTW...)





As to why high fructose corn syrup is in so many foods?

All the government subsidies that are paid to corn farmers. Plain and simple. 

It used to be that sugar was in soda for sweetner - now it is high fructose corn syrup. 

It makes sense.


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## William (Jun 5, 2009)

Hi Sandie

Corn grows very well in most parts of the US Sugar-Cane does not. Corn is cheaper and less labor intensive than Sugar Cane or Sugar Beets.

William




Sandie S-R said:


> As to why high fructose corn syrup is in so many foods?
> 
> All the government subsidies that are paid to corn farmers. Plain and simple.
> 
> ...


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## Canonista (Jun 6, 2009)

If the import tarriffs on cane sugar and subsidies for domestic corn growers were removed cane sugar would be cheaper than corn syrup.


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## katorade (Jun 6, 2009)

comperic2003 said:


> No credible scientific evidence supports that statement.
> 
> 
> 
> If that were correct, then, your body would have trouble digesting Honey.




Actually, there's plenty of credible evidence supporting it. The biggest concern with HFCS is that fructose metabolizes mainly in the liver, whereas glucose can be metabolized anywhere in the body. This puts significant strain on the liver and can lead to problems like insulin resistance. 

This is mostly a problem where the higher concentration HFCS90 is used. HFCS90 is also used to make HFCS55, which is similar to sucrose (table sugar), but still has slightly higher fructose levels than glucose. Only problem is that manufacturers don't need to specify what level of HFCS they are using, so your intake could be much higher or lower than you expect.

HFCS42 is what is typically used in "non-sweet" foods like packaged meats and breads. It's less sweet than sugar, and is commonly used in foods as a flavor additive because of its cheap cost and the fact that it's very easy to add to almost any food. That is the #1 concern of HFCS (and all sugars, really, if they were used more). It's so prevelent in the American food industry that it can be very hard to avoid. The quantity of HFCS we consume as a country is very, very high.

People with fructose intolerance DO have trouble digesting honey, although typically less of a problem than HFCS. Honey has more fructose in it than other sugars, but has less fructose in it overall than HFCS because of the presence of other sugars (like maltose) and other compounds.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Jun 6, 2009)

I just read an article in Prospect about the over production of corn. I am sure that the over production of corn has given the need to use the corn in any way possible. Thus putting into the products that the poorer people would indulge in.

Food for thought...no?


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## olwen (Jun 6, 2009)

Sandie S-R said:


> As to why high fructose corn syrup is in so many foods?
> 
> All the government subsidies that are paid to corn farmers. Plain and simple.
> 
> ...



Yup yup. And once upon a time, cane sugar was reserved for wealthy people because it was so expensive. Government subsidies made it cheaper for the masses. Now, HFCS is also cheaper than cane sugar or beet sugar, so manufacturers prefer it. 

It's interesting tho how it's impossible to find HFCS in a grocery store. I don't think I've ever seen it actually. I have to wonder that if it was perfectly good for us, why it wasn't more readily available at the retail level, but for all that we probably consume more HFCS than sugar from cane or beets overall anyway.

Stan, you just have to be vigilant about reading ingredients in food. 
I try to avoid processed foods too because of all the crap it has in it. Another ubiquitous ingredient is soy, which doesn't agree with me, but which is in most processed food. Maybe you should go to an allergist to see if you're allergic to any other foods.


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## olwen (Jun 6, 2009)

BigBellySSBBW said:


> I just read an article in Prospect about the over production of corn. I am sure that the over production of corn has given the need to use the corn in any way possible. Thus putting into the products that the poorer people would indulge in.
> 
> Food for thought...no?



Or for making biodiesel fuel.


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## William (Jun 7, 2009)

I heard that all this biodiesel stuff is gonna drive the price of popcorn at the theaters even higher!!!

William 




olwen said:


> Or for making biodiesel fuel.


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## Bafta1 (Jun 7, 2009)

William said:


> Stan
> 
> You need to stock up on Passover Coke!!
> 
> William



This is ABSOLUTELY right!!!!!! Passover coke is much better than the corn syrup stuff. They use sugar instead. It would also go well with the kosher hot dogs.


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## olwen (Jun 7, 2009)

Bafta1 said:


> This is ABSOLUTELY right!!!!!! Passover coke is much better than the corn syrup stuff. They use sugar instead. It would also go well with the kosher hot dogs.



Some kosher hot dogs use soy as a filler.  Sabretts hot dogs actually are made with 100% pure beef and no extra fillers...maybe they are kosher too.


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## olwen (Jun 7, 2009)

William said:


> I heard that all this biodiesel stuff is gonna drive the price of popcorn at the theaters even higher!!!
> 
> William



So, don't eat movie popcorn. I don't eat the stuff anyway since it already costs too much.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jun 7, 2009)

olwen said:


> It's interesting tho how it's impossible to find HFCS in a grocery store. I don't think I've ever seen it actually. I have to wonder that if it was perfectly good for us, why it wasn't more readily available at the retail level, but for all that we probably consume more HFCS than sugar from cane or beets overall anyway.



It's not hard to buy corn syrup in a grocery store where I live, but I don't know for sure if it's HFCS. The label only says "corn syrup", but I don't know if the manufacturer is required to specify when corn syrup is the main ingredient.  Anyway, I've got a jar of Griffin's Crystal White Corn Syrup knocking around somewhere, and I believe Karo is a national brand. Besides, you can buy ANYTHING in the Big Apple! Some day you'll pass a guy standing in the shadow, and he'll say, "Psst! Lady! High fructose corn syrup?"


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Jun 7, 2009)

olwen said:


> Or for making biodiesel fuel.



That's what we want to believe, but it really isn't so.

Take a look at this.


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## olwen (Jun 7, 2009)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> It's not hard to buy corn syrup in a grocery store where I live, but I don't know for sure if it's HFCS. The label only says "corn syrup", but I don't know if the manufacturer is required to specify when corn syrup is the main ingredient.  Anyway, I've got a jar of Griffin's Crystal White Corn Syrup knocking around somewhere, and I believe Karo is a national brand. Besides, you can buy ANYTHING in the Big Apple! Some day you'll pass a guy standing in the shadow, and he'll say, "Psst! Lady! High fructose corn syrup?"



You would think that. I can't find freaking buttermilk here. Goat milk, yes. Buttermilk, no. Next time I go to the grocery store I'll look for Karo. I don't think I've ever seen it tho...



BigBellySSBBW said:


> That's what we want to believe, but it really isn't so.
> 
> Take a look at this.



Yeah, I know. I've read about how hard it is to manufacture, but that doesn't seem to be out of people's minds. I know in Brazil? they use alcohol as fuel but it's made from sugar cane. I can't remember tho if it's ethanol or methanol.


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## William (Jun 7, 2009)

Hi Olwen Stan

We have a brand in Connecticut







http://foxonpark.com/cart.php?m=splash

I have bought some and they do taste good but the store that I goto does not carry their Cola.

They do take mail orders 

William 




olwen said:


> Yup yup. And once upon a time, cane sugar was reserved for wealthy people because it was so expensive. Government subsidies made it cheaper for the masses. Now, HFCS is also cheaper than cane sugar or beet sugar, so manufacturers prefer it.
> 
> It's interesting tho how it's impossible to find HFCS in a grocery store. I don't think I've ever seen it actually. I have to wonder that if it was perfectly good for us, why it wasn't more readily available at the retail level, but for all that we probably consume more HFCS than sugar from cane or beets overall anyway.
> 
> ...


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## Miss Vickie (Jun 7, 2009)

olwen said:


> You would think that. I can't find freaking buttermilk here. Goat milk, yes. Buttermilk, no. Next time I go to the grocery store I'll look for Karo. I don't think I've ever seen it tho...



It's usually found in the baking section, with molasses and stuff like that. It's called "karo syrup" and some recipes call for it and I have the same bottle in my pantry since Clinton was president. I'm not sure it's the same as HFCS, though. 

As for the topic, I can't help but think that the explosion of diabetes, in both adults and younger and younger kids, has at least a little to do with the vast amount of HFCS in our diets. I mean it's in EVERYTHING -- tomato sauce, ketchup, mustard, things you wouldn't necessarily equate with "sweets". I have to believe that the huge amount of this in our diets isn't a good thing, and its effect on the pancreas, stressing it with constantly pumping out insulin to combat the sugar we're taking in can't be healthy.

I'm old enough to remember a book called "Sugar Blue's" that came out in the early 80's. To me, good old fashioned sugar seems like a health food compared to this stuff.  :eat1:


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## Canonista (Jun 7, 2009)

I also forgot Dublin Dr. Pepper.

Bottled in Dublin, Texas, you can order some cane sugar sweetened Dr. Pepper at their site and have some shipped to your door.


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## katorade (Jun 8, 2009)

Karo corn syrup is not the same as HFCS. HFCS is corn syrup that has gone through an enzymatic process to turn glucose into fructose.


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## stan_der_man (Jun 11, 2009)

Thanks for all the information! I'm just lurking and reading... 

BTW, my wife found out that the Costco in Fontana, CA is now selling "Pepsi Natural", apparently along the lines of the "Throwback" beverages with cane sugar, but this line of "natural" drinks are supposed to have all natural ingredients... assuming their labeling is accurate of course...


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## Elfcat (Jun 11, 2009)

Regarding the conversion process, I saw an article a few days ago that the machinery used contains mercury. Now elemental mercury is not the same thing as methylmercury in fish, so there is some debate about just how dangerous this is, but the concern is out there in some quarters.


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## comperic2003 (Jun 11, 2009)

katorade said:


> Actually, there's plenty of credible evidence supporting it. The biggest concern with HFCS is that fructose metabolizes mainly in the liver, whereas glucose can be metabolized anywhere in the body. This puts significant strain on the liver and can lead to problems like insulin resistance.
> 
> This is mostly a problem where the higher concentration HFCS90 is used.



HFCS 90 is almost never used to sweeten food.




katorade said:


> The biggest concern with HFCS is that fructose metabolizes mainly in the liver, whereas glucose can be metabolized anywhere in the body. This puts significant strain on the liver and can lead to problems like insulin resistance.



HFCS 42 has less fructose than table sugar. And HFCS 55 is nearly identical to table sugar. So, I fail to see how HFCS is anymore damaging than table sugar.


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## katorade (Jun 11, 2009)

comperic2003 said:


> HFCS 90 is almost never used to sweeten food.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You quoted the same thing twice.

Like I said, HFCS90 is used mostly to make HFCS55. It is added to more foods than you'd think, but it is usually added as a blend with HFCS55 to boost its sweetness without causing things like drinks to be syrupy in the mouth.

I did say what is most damaging about HFCS42 is that it's added where it isn't needed as a cheap flavor replacement, boosting the overall quantity of sugar we get in our diet. There are also concerns about the processes HFCS goes through to be made, but the jury's still out on that.

You originally argued that there was no credible evidence supporting the claims, you didn't specify which ones exactly.


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## comperic2003 (Jun 11, 2009)

katorade said:


> You quoted the same thing twice.



I quoted the same thing twice because I had two separate points to make and I wanted to avoid confusion.



katorade said:


> Like I said, HFCS90 is used mostly to make HFCS55.



Exactly. So, HFCS 90 is not a problem.



katorade said:


> It is added to more foods than you'd think, but it is usually added as a blend with HFCS55 to boost its sweetness without causing things like drinks to be syrupy in the mouth.



HFCS 90 is so sickeningly sweet that even when it is added to foods, it is used in small amounts. 

And, in and of itself, HFCS 90 is not unhealthy either.



katorade said:


> I did say what is most damaging about HFCS42 is that it's added where it isn't needed as a cheap flavor replacement, boosting the overall quantity of sugar we get in our diet.



But that does not support the argument that HFCS 42 or 55 is inherently "nasty stuff." Nor does it support the argument that HFCS 42 or 55 in excess, is any worse for you than sugar in excess.



katorade said:


> You originally argued that there was no credible evidence supporting the claims, you didn't specify which ones exactly.



I originally argued that, "no credible evidence supports" the statement, "_n general high fructose corn syrup seems to be pretty nasty stuff."_


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## katorade (Jun 11, 2009)

comperic2003 said:


> And, in and of itself, HFCS 90 is not unhealthy either.
> 
> 
> I originally argued that, "no credible evidence supports" the statement, "_n general high fructose corn syrup seems to be pretty nasty stuff."_


_

HFCS90 IS incredibly bad for you. It's just that most of us consume a trivial amount of it. More than is necessary, though.

The statement wasn't specifying 90, 42, or 55. Just HFCS in general, so both arguments can be said. It is inherently nasty stuff, but not as demonic as most people think it is.

Nobody said that an excess of one was worse than the other. I already said there was a marginal difference. An excess of EITHER is bad. Problem is, HFCS is used MORE than cane or beet sugar in foods it really doesn't belong in. HFCS is used in more processed foods, period. 
The other problem is that companies are not made to list what levels of HFCS are used, so people that have issues with absorbing different types of complex carbohydrates or that have insulin resistance issues are forced to gamble when they eat._


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## comperic2003 (Jun 11, 2009)

katorade said:


> HFCS90 IS incredibly bad for you. It's just that most of us consume a trivial amount of it. More than is necessary, though.



How is HFCS 90 incredibly bad for you? That is essentially the same as saying, fructose is incredibly bad for you.



katorade said:


> The statement wasn't specifying 90, 42, or 55. Just HFCS in general, so both arguments can be said. It is inherently nasty stuff, but not as demonic as most people think it is.



I fail to see how it is inherently nasty. If it is, then table sugar is inherently nasty as well.


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## Ernest Nagel (Jun 11, 2009)

Health considerations aside the environmental consequences of corn production for both ethanol and HFCS are pretty grim. Corn is extremely water intensive both to grow and process. The Ogallala Aquifer that stretches from Texas to Wyoming has fallen over 100 feet in just 60 years. If it's uncertain how much HFCS we can live with the amount of water we can't live without is pretty damn well <npi> understood. We've already got too many straws in the ground depleting a resource that took millions of years to accumulate. 

Cuba irrrigates sugar cane primarily with rainwater and produces cane sugar very economically. Putting a questionable political initiative (the embargo that lead to the prominence of HFCS) ahead of something that's causing known ecological and probable health damage seems to me to be the height of absurdity. JMO. :bow:


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## katorade (Jun 11, 2009)

comperic2003 said:


> How is HFCS 90 incredibly bad for you? That is essentially the same as saying, fructose is incredibly bad for you.
> 
> 
> 
> I fail to see how it is inherently nasty. If it is, then table sugar is inherently nasty as well.




Go back and read my original post. Fructose is metabolized almost solely in the liver, whereas glucose can be metabolized by every cell in the body. That puts an incredible strain on the liver and can lead to insulin resistance and other fun issues like fatty liver.


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## Risible (Jun 11, 2009)

This thread has strayed far from its original intent. It has deteriorated into argument - something that is not welcome and little tolerated in the Health Forum.

I'm sorry, Stan, that I have to close your thread; hope you found some answers to your original question.

/mod


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