# Retiring the Good Guy FA Card : Holding FAs to a higher standard.



## Ample Pie (Aug 25, 2010)

The most common complaint I hear from FAs is that the fatties they so love and adore (or at least find attractive) often lack confidence and/or find it weird or strange or even off-putting that someone might love a part of themselves that they actually hate-- ie fat. If I'm wrong here, please let me know, but I'm pretty sure that this basic assertion is right and accurate. 

Given the above point, I put forth the idea that FAs hold BBW, SSBBW, BHM, SSBHM (henceforth known as the fatties they love) to a higher standard than the rest of the world. A good portion of the Western World's population would list body-issues as something with which they struggle. Moreover, our advertisers, movies, television shows, families, and friends support and even actively enforce and encourage that struggle. On top of that add the fact that these messages are aimed disproportionately at fat people. So, basically FAs want from us something that most of the Western World can't really do very well when the forces working against us doing it are even greater than those against our peers of average weight. A higher standard.

Is it wrong for them to want that? No. Sometimes there are selfish motives behind it: the world can treat them like freaks for what they like and they don't want to be reminded of that by the people they adore. It makes sense, when you think about it. And, of course, sometimes it just has to do with the fact that they want the fatties they love to feel good about themselves. I can get behind that. However, I think that a key step in this process lies squarely in the palm of FA hands and that's giving up the “Good Guy” FA card.

What is the “Good Guy” FA card you ask? Well, if you've been around the Fat Acceptance/Size Acceptance community, you know there is a tendency to break FAs down into two groups: the Creeps and the Good Guys. A Creep might steal your photo and put it on a website without your permission. The Good Guy FA would never do that. The Creep will skip over a thousand words describing a health problem you're having just to tell you how hot it is when you're gasping for breath. The Good Guy FA would never do that. You dig? 

The thing is when the Good Guy FA screws up and says or does something really stupid; s/he has his/her Good Guy FA card to play. “Come on, I'm one of the Good Guys; you know I didn't mean it that way.” And s/he gets a pass. Meanwhile, whatever stupid thing s/he did or said is still hanging out there being a very poor representation of what FAs should probably be if they actually (and I mean truly) want the fatties they love to be confident. What's worse is we fatties [they love] are the ones giving them the passes. 

I'm not saying people don't deserve forgiveness or that we're not all entitled to screw ups. What I'm saying is that if FAs want to be a positive force in the movement to help fatties gain respect in the outside world and confidence on the inside, a better reaction to screw ups might be to own them, to claim them for what they are, to learn from them, and to become better FAs. This not only diffuses whatever stupid thing was said or done, it teaches a new generation of FAs how to deal with similar sticky situations.

That's why I'm suggesting that we fatties and the FAs we love retire the “Good Guy” FA card—not the love or acceptance we have for FAs, just our tendency to give them a pass simply because they like fatties and don't generally side with the Creeps. That just isn't good enough. Liking fatties isn't a good enough reason to let rudeness and hurtful comments or actions slide. I think we should expect and even demand more: we should demand that when and if they do or say something that hurts fatties or Fat Acceptance, they take responsibility for it, learn from it, and move on. We should expect them to step in when another FA is doing something to tarnish the term 'FA.' We should expect them to show just as much confidence in and love of the name FA as they expect us to show as fatties. We should hold them to a higher standard than we currently do, to the same standard they have for us.

----

_Footnote: I'm using the term FA as it applies to all genders. Ditto for the word "Guy." "Good Guy FA" is a term I picked up on Dimensions and so I use it, but I don't mean to indicate men specifically._


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## vardon_grip (Aug 25, 2010)

Hopefully both sides will step up and be accountable.


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## jewels_mystery (Aug 25, 2010)

I loved reading this post and related to several points. I think it applies to everyone regardless of preference. I had friends who I over looked their behavior because they were "nice". None of us are perfect and need to remember that.


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## KHayes666 (Aug 25, 2010)

If I'm reading this right, and I'd like to think I am....you're saying that F/A's who fuck up should take responsibilities for their actions and mistakes and get rid of their "good guy" label in the process.

While I agree with the whole premise of that, there is one question I have to ask. Wouldn't the fact they actually own up to their mistakes be the reason they have the "good guy" label to begin with?

For example if the normally mild mannered Blackjack somehow gets drunk, takes his pants off and does the Electric Slide at the next bbw dance....wouldn't it make him a good guy to apologize to everyone who witnessed that the very next day?

The guys that don't take responsibilities for their actions are the slimeballs to begin with. The guys with thin wives who secretly want to fuck the daylights out of fat women, the slick feeders who put their own selfish needs ahead of anyone elses, the serial one nighter who's track record of who he's fucked is longer than my arm yet can't hold a LTR so save his life, etc. While these guys aren't exactly the sociopath that you can easily dismiss, they're not Prince Charming either.

Then, not to contradict myself but even when someone owns up to their mistakes....they still may not be a good person depending on the situation. If a guy cheats on his wife and apologizes after, he's still a dick in my opinion.

I guess what I'm saying is nobody is perfect, hell I would never consider myself a "good guy" anyway...but there's a reason some guys have that label and part of it is that they own up to mistakes.


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## Ample Pie (Aug 25, 2010)

No one said give up the good guy status, just the free pass card. I'm just saying being one of the "Good Guys" shouldn't give someone a pass for being a jerk. Moreover, if we are already owning up to our screw ups, then this doesn't really concern us, does it?


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## Blackjack (Aug 25, 2010)

KHayes666 said:


> For example if the normally mild mannered Blackjack somehow gets drunk, takes his pants off and does the Electric Slide at the next bbw dance....wouldn't it make him a good guy to apologize to everyone who witnessed that the very next day?



Wait, why would I be apologizing? I'd be charging for the chance to see that shit.


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## Ample Pie (Aug 25, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> Wait, why would I be apologizing? I'd be charging for the chance to see that shit.


I was actually going to say this too, but I figured I'd let you catch it.


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## spiritangel (Aug 25, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> Wait, why would I be apologizing? I'd be charging for the chance to see that shit.



oh good I am not the only one who would find this majorly entertaining then?


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## KHayes666 (Aug 25, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> Wait, why would I be apologizing? I'd be charging for the chance to see that shit.



Perhaps I should have come up with a better metaphor.


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## Jes (Aug 25, 2010)

I'd like for the shitty Dims men I've encountered (and not all of them are, certainly) to stop calling themselves 'one of the good FAs.' I'm not sure that while you're* telling me that you want to meet me and sex me up, because your GF* lives a whole 2 hours away and you can't get there and you're oh-so-horny, and why don't I come out tonight and meet you and blah blah blah' you can also be 'one of the good FAs.' What an insanely high, and undeserved, opinion of yourself! The hypocrisy! The sheer grossness of it all. 


*names available on request. Thank goodness I have a habit of keeping PMs!


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## thirtiesgirl (Aug 25, 2010)

I know I'm stating the obvious, but just because you're an FA, that doesn't automatically make you a good guy. What makes you a good guy is your behavior overall, to everyone you encounter in your life, not just your admiration of fat women. You don't earn a gold star just for admiring my fat. Same for FFAs, too.

-Captain Obvious, out.


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## EtobicokeFA (Aug 25, 2010)

Should we take responsibilities for our actions? Of course. 

However, I think the real difference between a "good guy" FA and a creep FA, is that when the Good Guy FA screws up and says or does something really stupid, he has *genuine remorse* for his actions, while the creep does not seem to know or care that their actions are inappropriate.


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## frankman (Aug 25, 2010)

I just repped Hayes. Long time since I last did that. Felt pretty okay. I said: "good post, man". Because it was.

As for Blackjack's nekkid electric slide: give me at least some months advance warning, I have to save up for plane tickets to see that.


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## Ample Pie (Aug 25, 2010)

EtobicokeFA said:


> Should we take responsibilities for our actions? Of course.
> 
> However, I think the real difference between a "good guy" FA and a creep FA, is that when the Good Guy FA screws up and says or does something really stupid, he has *genuine remorse* for his actions, while the creep does not seem to know or care that their actions are inappropriate.




Just a note: I didn't limit the definition of what a "Good Guy" FA is. I gave two examples but in no way said those were the only two defining points.

Moreover, I'm not sure the remorse is that important to me. I mean, for one I'd rather someone not feel bad about something; I don't like to see people feel bad. And, anyway, their emotions aren't really my business, but their actions can be. 

My only point is that no one should ever get a pass for being rude just because they're a "Good Guy" and that taking responsibility for any rude moments or silly slips is a far better way to promote confidence than saying "I'm a Good Guy, you know I didn't mean it."


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## chicken legs (Aug 25, 2010)

Rebecca said:


> That's why I'm suggesting that we fatties and the FAs we love retire the Good Guy FA cardnot the love or acceptance we have for FAs, just our tendency to give them a pass simply because they like fatties and don't generally side with the Creeps. That just isn't good enough. Liking fatties isn't a good enough reason to let rudeness and hurtful comments or actions slide. I think we should expect and even demand more: we should demand that when and if they do or say something that hurts fatties or Fat Acceptance, they take responsibility for it, learn from it, and move on. We should expect them to step in when another FA is doing something to tarnish the term 'FA.' We should expect them to show just as much confidence in and love of the name FA as they expect us to show as fatties. We should hold them to a higher standard than we currently do, to the same standard they have for us.
> 
> ----
> 
> _Footnote: I'm using the term FA as it applies to all genders. Ditto for the word "Guy." "Good Guy FA" is a term I picked up on Dimensions and so I use it, but I don't mean to indicate men specifically._



I hope all people of all shapes/sizes/genders try to avoid being an a-hole via being open to learning from their mistakes (aka..social snafu's).



vardon_grip said:


> Hopefully both sides will step up and be accountable.



Totally agree.

It goes both ways.


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## Ample Pie (Aug 25, 2010)

chicken legs said:


> I hope all people of all shapes/sizes/genders try to avoid being an a-hole via being open to learning from their mistakes (aka..social snafu's).
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well I did address both parties....I'm not big on the whole "us vs them" thing anyway. I think we're all responsible--and that's why I did address this to FAs and SS/BBWs & SS/BHM.


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## Angel (Aug 25, 2010)

EtobicokeFA said:


> he has *genuine remorse* for his actions



I think that creature is on the endangered species list; or may possibly be extinct already. 








If such a creature does exist who is capable of processing, possessing, and/or displaying such sincere emotions; and who also tries to make amends without blaming anyone but himself for *his* actions, he would be worth his weight in gold.


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## frankman (Aug 25, 2010)

Angel said:


> I think that creature is on the endangered species list; or may possibly be extinct already.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wait a minute. Genuine remorse is saying sorry and meaning it, right? Why would that be a rare thing?


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## EtobicokeFA (Aug 25, 2010)

Angel said:


> I think that creature is on the endangered species list; or may possibly be extinct already.
> 
> If such a creature does exist who is capable of processing, possessing, and/or displaying such sincere emotions; and who also tries to make amends without blaming anyone but himself for *his* actions, he would be worth his weight in gold.



I am endangered?


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## frankman (Aug 25, 2010)

EtobicokeFA said:


> I am endangered?



No, you're _endangered_.

Italics make all the difference.


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## Ernest Nagel (Aug 25, 2010)

Considering other people's feelings doesn't make someone a good guy, it just makes us human. Respecting other people's feelings and their right to feel exactly as they do or don't is a step in the right direction. A "good guy" is someone who supports your happiness and fulfillment, regardless of the consequences to himself. JMO


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## vardon_grip (Aug 25, 2010)

Ernest Nagel said:


> Considering other people's feelings doesn't make someone a good guy, it just makes us human. Respecting other people's feelings and their right to feel exactly as they do or don't is a step in the right direction. A "good guy" is someone who supports your happiness and fulfillment, regardless of the consequences to himself. JMO



Agreed.

On a similar note: Are our standards so low that behaving like a decent human being is seen as extraordinary or that it deserves recognition or even praise? That's so sad.


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## AnnMarie (Aug 25, 2010)

I have no issue calling out good guys on their bad statements or behavior. I questioned one here just recently, very directly and deliberately, about something he'd posted that really caused me to take pause. People screw stuff up sometimes, and he quickly realized he'd made a mistake, that was not how he felt or thought. 

Regardless of his answer, I called him out because I wanted to know what he REALLY thought. Even if he'd said "yeah, I really think that" it wouldn't have made him a creep. I just would have realized that we view a major thing very differently. 

But yeah, no one should slide on junk just because. However, some people take much bigger issue with some things than others. Something I might find funny or benign could be a federal case to someone else. So what "let slide" isn't a slide, it's nit a big deal to me. Someone might think it's a pass, but it's not to me. Them jumping all over someone might seem extreme to me. 

So, yeah. All a matter of perspective I think. Excuse typos, on phone.


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## Ample Pie (Aug 26, 2010)

Then I'm damn glad I didn't ever once suggest jumping all over anyone.

Whew!


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## musicman (Aug 26, 2010)

I agree with 99% of the original post in this thread. No one should get a free pass based on who they are sexually attracted to. People of all stripes SHOULD hold their fellow humans to a higher standard. Good behavior is good, and bad behavior is bad, regardless of the actor. To me, that's a no-brainer. But there is one sentence I find problematic. I will quote it here:



Rebecca said:


> We should expect them to step in when another FA is doing something to tarnish the term 'FA.'



I feel about as responsible for the actions of my fellow FAs as I do for people who have the same hair color as myself. I have a strong negative reaction to anyone who would judge me by the actions of others. Those people are called "bigots". Just as fat people object to being stereotyped as a group, so do FAs. (And so should any human being! People are not like ants in a colony who all share the same DNA. We're individuals.) I believe that is what people have objected to, in certain other recent threads.

[I have a bad feeling that this thread is going to degenerate quickly, so I feel required to add this disclaimer: I don't think that the OP, or anyone else here, is a bigot. The fact that I even have to say this is a sad sign of how far discussions here have sunk in recent months, but that's off-topic.]


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## Simplicity (Aug 26, 2010)

Yeah I don't see bigotry anywhere in this. But way to plant the seed.


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## AnnMarie (Aug 26, 2010)

Rebecca said:


> Then I'm damn glad I didn't ever once suggest jumping all over anyone.
> 
> Whew!



Never thought, said, or even implied you suggested it. Doesn't mean it never happens.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Aug 26, 2010)

Ernest Nagel said:


> Considering other people's feelings doesn't make someone a good guy, it just makes us human.




And, in all probability, Canadian.




musicman said:


> No one should get a free pass based on who they are sexually attracted to.




Nobody should get a free pass EVER, in my opinion: if you're going to talk the talk, you'd better be able to walk the walk.


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## Ample Pie (Aug 26, 2010)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Nobody should get a free pass EVER, in my opinion: if you're going to talk the talk, you'd better be able to walk the walk.



This, too. 

---

You know, I'm an FA too. I have had to go back and eat my words on stuff that I didn't even realize was idiotic or hurtful--and it was hard, but it had to be done. I wrote this for myself as much as anyone.


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## Ample Pie (Aug 26, 2010)

AnnMarie said:


> Never thought, said, or even implied you suggested it. Doesn't mean it never happens.



Never thought, said, or even implied you did.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 26, 2010)

The issue I've always had with the "good guys" is that some of them have a seemingly outsized need to highlight their position as "one of the good guys". The designation typically is derived from, as pointed out here, a simple lack of exhibiting poor behaviour rather than being "good". But what bothers me is not pride at behaving a certain way, but rather the need for constant admiration and praise for it. People who are good don't typically need constant recognition for it.


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## EtobicokeFA (Aug 26, 2010)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> And, in all probability, Canadian.



Anything wrong with that?


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## Carrie (Aug 26, 2010)

This is a very interesting question. I do think that the "good FA" label thing can sometimes be so fully incorporated into a person's identity, to the point where maybe the FAs themselves start taking it for granted that they are, regardless of their thoughts and corresponding behavior. I don't think I've seen it so much the other way around, where the fat people's perceptions of the FA remains positive regardless of what they say/do, but in terms of self-perception on the part of the FAs, yes, sometimes. I haven't seen it often, but it can happen.


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## Redhotphatgirl (Aug 26, 2010)

Let she who is perfect throw the first stone. We are all human and complicated. Everyone makes mistakes it should not be us against them. What it should be is open communication. Like listen do not ever call me a term you think is cute if it involves a barn yard animal honey cause It hurts me. Or no just cause your in the hot tub with me does not mean you can rub my fat thighs with out permission. Education on both sides goes along way.


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## HappyFA75 (Aug 26, 2010)

Redhotphatgirl said:


> Let she who is perfect throw the first stone. We are all human and complicated. Everyone makes mistakes it should not be us against them. What it should be is open communication. Like listen do not ever call me a term you think is cute if it involves a barn yard animal honey cause It hurts me. Or no just cause your in the hot tub with me does not mean you can rub my fat thighs with out permission. Education on both sides goes along way.



+1 Communication, as well!


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## Ample Pie (Aug 26, 2010)

Rebecca said:


> Well I did address both parties....I'm not big on the whole "us vs them" thing anyway. I think we're all responsible--and that's why I did address this to FAs and SS/BBWs & SS/BHM.





Redhotphatgirl said:


> Let she who is perfect throw the first stone. We are all human and complicated. Everyone makes mistakes it should not be us against them. What it should be is open communication. Like listen do not ever call me a term you think is cute if it involves a barn yard animal honey cause It hurts me. Or no just cause your in the hot tub with me does not mean you can rub my fat thighs with out permission. Education on both sides goes along way.



Also, communication is what I'm suggesting. 

----

What I am not suggesting is ever shunning someone who makes a mistake or stripping anyone of their "Good Guy" status--as I already said.

Fucking up doesn't make someone a jerk or somehow less worthwhile, but thinking it's okay to be a jerk because "come on, I'm one of the Good Guys" doesn't encourage much in the way of respect.


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## KHayes666 (Aug 26, 2010)

Rebecca said:


> Also, communication is what I'm suggesting.
> 
> ----
> 
> ...



This I agree with wholeheartedly. Its one thing to exhibit bad behavior for a short period of time and later say "yeah I fucked up, I'm really sorry" and someone else exhibiting bad behavior and saying "but...but...I'm one of the good guys"

I wonder why people do that. Is it so hard to say you're sorry for something that could damage a potential great friendship?


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## Lovelyone (Aug 26, 2010)

I am not disagreeing that some men/women use the "good guy/girl card". It happens in all parts of society not just the fat community. Personally, I don't think it is used as much in this community as it is in everyday society because the women/men in this community have had to deal with so much bigotry, hatred, and smack talking just for being plus-sized that they have developed a pretty accurate bullshit meter. I know I have. 

I don't have enough fingers and toes to be able to count the men who've used the "I am a good guy" or the "I am not like the other FA's--cos I think of you as a person and don't only take into account your size" line on me. Did I fall for it? Yes several times I did and got burned because I was so naive. Do I hold it against the next guy who comes along because f*cktard decided to portray himself as something that he wasn't? Maybe..a little. That doesn't mean that I won't give them a chance. I admit that its hard to trust the next one that comes along--but everyone deserves a chance and shouldn't be stereotyped because of some douche-bag who is saying one thing and meaning another, or trying check off a few more fat girls names in his little black book cos he "nailed" them. (and yes, we ladies know who you are). 

I agree with the posters who said that respect is earned. Time will tell if the person that you are dating/seeing/whatever-ing really IS a good guy/girl. I think its best to give the benefit of doubt to someone who is trying to be sincere, ask around and get a feel for whom you are getting to know, but IMHO the most important thing is to trust your own instincts. A skunk will still smell like a skunk even if he/she did take a bath in rose water.


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## frankman (Aug 26, 2010)

Redhotphatgirl said:


> Let she who is perfect throw the first stone. We are all human and complicated. Everyone makes mistakes it should not be us against them. What it should be is open communication. Like listen do not ever call me a term you think is cute if it involves a barn yard animal honey cause It hurts me. Or no just cause your in the hot tub with me does not mean you can rub my fat thighs with out permission. Education on both sides goes along way.



Look, I said sorry okay? It was a misunderstanding on my part, bunny.


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## Szombathy (Aug 26, 2010)

Is it really the FA's that are responsible for the conditions under which they are given a pass for being a "good guy" or "good girl"?

The claim that is being made here is that FA's are being held to a lower standard because of their FAness that allows them to get away with bad behavior. But it seems like the root cause of this behavior is the mentality inherent in thinking that, simply because of their appreciation of fat, will treat partners somehow differently than people in general. This seems to me to create a higher standard of expectation for FAs, rather than a lower one.


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## CastingPearls (Aug 26, 2010)

I don't give anyone a free pass for bad behavior whether they're labeled, good FA, special, artistic, disabled, overworked and overextended, addicted, disturbed, etc., ad nauseum. If you're having a bad day, yeah okay, whatever. If you treat me like shit, you're dog meat. 

P.S. Those endangered people--I guess I'm blessed to know quite a few.
My cups runneth over.


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## CastingPearls (Aug 26, 2010)

EtobicokeFA said:


> Anything wrong with that?


I took it to mean that Canadians are polite and considerate of other's feelings, which is a compliment, no? 

I <3 my Canadians.


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## Dromond (Aug 27, 2010)

After reading the opening post a couple of times to make sure I read it right, and reading all the responses in this thread, I've come away a little disheartened. It seems like nobody talks to each other anymore, everyone talks past each other. It's an illusion of interaction, which you project your own interpretation of what's going on onto the other person and react to that rather than what they are actually saying and doing.

Men do it when they grab the thigh in a hot tub, to use a given example. All they see is something they want, they are not listening to her or even seeing her as a real person. Just a projection of their fantasy.

Women do it when they carry that thigh grabbing experience and project it onto the next guy who tries to introduce himself. She is not listening to him or even seeing him as a real person. She's projecting her bad experience onto him, and is immediately suspicious of his motives. And so it goes.


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## thirtiesgirl (Aug 27, 2010)

Dromond said:


> After reading the opening post a couple of times to make sure I read it right, and reading all the responses in this thread, I've come away a little disheartened. It seems like nobody talks to each other anymore, everyone talks past each other. It's an illusion of interaction, which you project your own interpretation of what's going on onto the other person and react to that rather than what they are actually saying and doing.
> 
> Men do it when they grab the thigh in a hot tub, to use a given example. All they see is something they want, they are not listening to her or even seeing her as a real person. Just a projection of their fantasy.
> 
> Women do it when they carry that thigh grabbing experience and project it onto the next guy who tries to introduce himself. She is not listening to him or even seeing him as a real person. She's projecting her bad experience onto him, and is immediately suspicious of his motives. And so it goes.



So maybe if the thigh grabbing stopped, women would stop projecting. As far as I'm concerned, it's not a chicken-or-egg argument. Stop one problematic behavior, and the other will probably start to go away as well.


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## frankman (Aug 27, 2010)

Dromond said:


> After reading the opening post a couple of times to make sure I read it right, and reading all the responses in this thread, I've come away a little disheartened. It seems like nobody talks to each other anymore, everyone talks past each other. It's an illusion of interaction, which you project your own interpretation of what's going on onto the other person and react to that rather than what they are actually saying and doing.
> 
> Men do it when they grab the thigh in a hot tub, to use a given example. All they see is something they want, they are not listening to her or even seeing her as a real person. Just a projection of their fantasy.
> 
> Women do it when they carry that thigh grabbing experience and project it onto the next guy who tries to introduce himself. She is not listening to him or even seeing him as a real person. She's projecting her bad experience onto him, and is immediately suspicious of his motives. And so it goes.



I so want to grab your thigh right now. 

Good point, man. My rep-meter tells me I must grab someone else's thigh first, but you'll get yours ASAP.


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## Dromond (Aug 27, 2010)

Ew. I don't know where your hands have been.


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## frankman (Aug 27, 2010)

Dromond said:


> Ew. I don't know where your hands have been.



I'll use purile first.


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## Blackjack (Aug 27, 2010)

frankman said:


> I so want to grab your thigh right now.
> 
> Good point, man. My rep-meter tells me I must grab someone else's thigh first, but you'll get yours ASAP.



Got him for you.

Dromond, your thigh is safe. For now.


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## Dromond (Aug 27, 2010)

I thank you.


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## sirGordy (Aug 28, 2010)

I have been reading this thread for the past few days. Let me say this, just to put the record straight. I am a PA (People Admirer) and you know, we are responsible for our actions. I am that good guy, which has been used so much in this thread, but my actions make me that, not me articulating that, and folks who know me here, already know of the person I am.

That being said, doing rather impish things like feeling up a woman you do not not even know, its not only boorish, but would deserve that smack and retort from the lady in question. Bad behaviour is bad behaviour, period. Some of us though have learned that women are not objects, but fellow human beings, and deserve the dignity and respect that we all ask for. For me, the good guy (or good girl for that matter) is noted not by saying it, but by being it. So to me, this is the perfect example of the adage that actions do speak louder than words.

One more thing of note, that I have seen, and this is in no way a blanket statement, but I have seen this "bad boy" image that some seen to relish and are attracted to. Not only that the good guy is seen as a loser or a wimp. These stereotypes seem to just promulate an already confusing situation when it comes to understanding the genders. People are people, and will act accordingly.

This is why its important to get to know one another before passing judgements and before one can get to know the real person and who and whom they actually are.


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## spiritangel (Aug 28, 2010)

sirGordy said:


> I have been reading this thread for the past few days. Let me say this, just to put the record straight. I am a PA (People Admirer) and you know, we are responsible for our actions. I am that good guy, which has been used so much in this thread, but my actions make me that, not me articulating that, and folks who know me here, already know of the person I am.
> 
> That being said, doing rather impish things like feeling up a woman you do not not even know, its not only boorish, but would deserve that smack and retort from the lady in question. Bad behaviour is bad behaviour, period. Some of us though have learned that women are not objects, but fellow human beings, and deserve the dignity and respect that we all ask for. For me, the good guy (or good girl for that matter) is noted not by saying it, but by being it. So to me, this is the perfect example of the adage that actions do speak louder than words.
> 
> ...



I am out of rep but have to say both you and Drommond have said much of what I have been thinking when reading this thread just far far more eloquently than I ever could 

hugs


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## bigmac (Aug 28, 2010)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> And, in all probability, Canadian.



We Canadians can be jerks too -- once in a while -- especially when exposed to 110 degree heat all week.


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## sirGordy (Aug 29, 2010)

spiritangel said:


> I am out of rep but have to say both you and Drommond have said much of what I have been thinking when reading this thread just far far more eloquently than I ever could
> 
> hugs


 
Thanks Spiritangel *reciprocal hugs*


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## NoWayOut (Aug 29, 2010)

I don't consider myself a good guy, I just try not to be a dick. As long as the subject's not politics, I pull that off pretty well.


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## LillyBBBW (Aug 30, 2010)

Rebecca said:


> The most common complaint I hear from FAs is that the fatties they so love and adore (or at least find attractive) often lack confidence and/or find it weird or strange or even off-putting that someone might love a part of themselves that they actually hate-- ie fat. If I'm wrong here, please let me know, but I'm pretty sure that this basic assertion is right and accurate.
> 
> Given the above point, I put forth the idea that FAs hold BBW, SSBBW, BHM, SSBHM (henceforth known as the fatties they love) to a higher standard than the rest of the world. A good portion of the Western World's population would list body-issues as something with which they struggle. Moreover, our advertisers, movies, television shows, families, and friends support and even actively enforce and encourage that struggle. On top of that add the fact that these messages are aimed disproportionately at fat people. So, basically FAs want from us something that most of the Western World can't really do very well when the forces working against us doing it are even greater than those against our peers of average weight. A higher standard.
> 
> ...



I've been off for about a week or so. I'm just seeing this post so I'm late to the party. I was like, "Yes.... Yes... YES!!" with your post until I got to the good FA part. I haven't read everything here and I'm not sure if someone else made this point so forgive me if I'm repetative, but I got tripped up on the concept of a Good FA. There is no good FA really, only people. I think the beginning of your post made valid points about FAs holding bbws to a higher standard than the general public when it comes to confidence and so forth. This being the case, I can't subscribe to the notion that there are good bbws and bad bbws. There are only women. Fat women who have good days and bad days, good moments and bad moments like anyone else. If that holds true for bbw and we are to demand to be treated as individuals it seems a bit hypocritical to then come up with this system for identifying good FAs and bad ones. It seems we can all make room for a shitty moment or a learning curve or two without the need for public executions and final statements. Hope I'm making sense.


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## Ample Pie (Aug 30, 2010)

I really think you have misunderstood what I was saying in that post. I'm not suggesting that FAs are any different than the rest of the world, in fact I'm saying the exact opposite. I'm saying that FAs are people like anyone else and shouldn't be excused from bad behavior just because they like fat people.

Too many times, especially here,all that has to happen for bad behavior to slide is an FA will say "but I'm a good guy, I like fat people, I'm not sizist" 

So it isn't that they are or aren't good guys--they may or may not be, it's that some of them use the "good guy" card to get out of bad behavior and we (the people of the board) let them.


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## wrestlingguy (Aug 30, 2010)

I'm a FA. I'm attracted to fat girls.

I'm also a human being. I like monogamous relationships, fidelity, respect, partners reaching common goals as they support each other's individual endeavors.

The challenge to me, in being an FA and a human being is that they sometimes come into conflict. Not with me, but by others.

Over my 13+ years here, I have dated, gotten engaged, and married. In EVERY case, the woman I was involved with was harmed in some way by a man, or men, in many different ways, although most of the harm was done either emotionally, monetarily, verbally, or physically.

So I come along, and I'm met with mistrust, and at times disdain, because even though I'm a human being (as noted above), I'm still a FA, and that must count for something. 

*I'm not to be trusted by any of my words or actions, simply because I "resemble" the other guys in "her" life in the things that I say or do. Doesn't matter that I really mean them, it must be bullshit, because after all, I am a FA.

So I must be responsible for every guy who makes a date and breaks it, I must be responsible for sexing a fat girl up at a dance and even though I take her phone number, I never call. Yes, it's me who borrowed money from the last unsuspecting fatty at the bash last week who has no intentions of paying it back.

It was me under another name who entered into chat and PM'ed you, telling you how good that ass would look if you gained another 75 pounds. Yeah, the same guy who 2 weeks before told you he masturbated to your pics found on a site that steals party pics from places like this, and posts them so others can "appreciate" you with their genitalia in hand.

And while it was me who walked right past you at the last BBW dance to try to get with that webmodel, as soon as I realized that I was out of my league with her, I walked over to you, since you'd do as long as I'm hard anyway......but hell, at least I offered to buy you a drink!!!

It's me who tells all the other women that what you have to say about me is bulls**t, that she's only bitter because I dumped her because she's crazy. It's a game for me, and I find it funny and easy to get you to believe my bullshit too........how the hell stupid are you???? Do you really think you're DIFFERENT??? REALLY???????????? I can even get you to cheat on your man, because after all, I'M BETTER..................right? I pay attention to you!

You're right, I don't care what kind of music you like, or anything else you think about or want in your life, because I care about ME...........ME, not you. I'm here for the short term, the night, or several nights if I can convince you that I'm legit.........'cause after all, I AM the exception. I can even get some of you to get even fatter for me, if I take my time and say the right things, but in the end, I can go, because it's about me, not you......*

And somehow, in every relationship I've been in since coming here, I've had to contend with that mentality, and minimize the damage it causes. I'm held to a completely different standard because even though I'm the human being as noted by my statement above, I'm still a FA, and that's not a great thing.


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## chicken legs (Aug 31, 2010)

Rebecca said:


> Well I did address both parties....I'm not big on the whole "us vs them" thing anyway. I think we're all responsible--and that's why I did address this to FAs and SS/BBWs & SS/BHM.



What (sticky situation).. or who.. inspired your post in the first place? It sounds like you're venting about a certain person or maybe the type of guy you are attracting.?

The thing is you really didn't address the bad behavior of the "fatties" only "fa/ffas" which isn't addressing both parties. Personally, I rarely see unselfish "fatties" and I have seen plenty of burned out FA/FFA's..who gave and gave..until they gave out before they bailed or their SO died. I don't think that FFA/FA's hold those they admire to a higher standard. I think its a misunderstanding of what those they admire go through and how it effects their personality. I really didn't understand the anxiety of living in a world built for smaller people and how that effected super sized people. I had no clue what big folks went threw until I moved in with my ssbhm boyfriend. However, he got a crash course in what its like being a single mother juggling life. Neither situation is easy but you won't know that until you get close to that person and go threw stressful situations together.


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## MizzSnakeBite (Aug 31, 2010)

chicken legs said:


> Personally, I rarely see unselfish "fatties" and I have seen plenty of burned out FA/FFA's..who gave and gave..until they gave out before they bailed or their SO died.



There are plenty, and I mean _plenty_, of "fatties" that give and give and give to their SOs until they can give no more. Just sayin'.

And I'm not going to even touch the "their SO died" statement. All I can say to that is, wow.


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## Angel (Aug 31, 2010)

chicken legs said:


> The thing is you really didn't address the bad behavior of the "fatties" only "fa/ffas" which isn't addressing both parties.



The "bad behavior of the fatties" _was_ addressed. The bad behavior of "fatties" is when a "fattie" gives a FA/FFA a pass (lets FA/FFA's bad behavior or actions slide or go unquestioned) just because they are a 'good FA'. 

Your child is normally kind and well behaved; a "good" child. Your child is cranky and grouchy today and sassy. Would you pat your child on the back and say "well done" if the child hurt another child's feelings or the feelings of an adult that you care about? or would you take responsibility and explain to your child how what your child said was hurtful to the other child or to the adult you care about?




chickenlegs said:


> Personally, I rarely see unselfish "fatties" and I have seen plenty of burned out FA/FFA's..who gave and gave..until they gave out before they bailed or their SO died. I don't think that FFA/FA's hold those they admire to a higher standard. I think its a misunderstanding of what those they admire go through and how it effects their personality. I really didn't understand the anxiety of living in a world built for smaller people and how that effected super sized people. I had no clue what big folks went threw until I moved in with my ssbhm boyfriend. However, he got a crash course in what its like being a single mother juggling life. Neither situation is easy but you won't know that until you get close to that person and go threw stressful situations together.



If a "fattie" demands respect and wants to be treated decent and refuses to put up with being treated like a second class citizen or worse, does that make them selfish in your eyes? Did any of the selfish "fatties" you have alluded to want anything more than what any other human being wants? Did/do they want anything more than you would want? Did/do those selfish "fatties" want anything more than to be treated with kindness? Did/do they want anything more than acceptance, affection, appreciation, and love from those they loved?

I know of some "fatties" - most of the "fatties" here - who give just as much, if not more, and put as much if not more effort into relationships. A "fattie" knows when they have found something good, and most work hard to keep what they have. 

Many FAs do hold "fatties" to a higher standard. You know how many jocks and professional businessmen want a confident intelligent beautiful svelte trophy wife or model on their arm or beside them? They want the Sports Illistrated Swimsuit model or Playboy Bunny type of woman. Many FAs have the same kind of standards, except their idea of confidence and perfection comes from other sources besides SI or Playboy. I'm glad you have never experienced FAs wanting your body to be exacly like so-and-sos. I'm glad that no FA has ever expected you to wear clothes that are 5 sizes too small every day of your life and especially if you go out into public with him. Showing off our fat and our rolls and our belly and our fat arms equals confidence. I'm glad that no FA has ever expected you to smile all the time and to never let on that you just might be physically uncomfortable in any way. Again, that means as a "fattie" you'd be lacking in self-confidence. I'm so glad that you have never been reminded that your fat body isn't perfect like Ms. Fattie so-and-sos. I'm glad that no FA has ever told you that you were too fat, or that you aren't fat enough for him, or that if you loved him you would change or alter your body for him; and I'm so glad that no one tells you that it's all your fault if you perceive those kinds of things. After all, we should smile and be confident and take any kind of crap off of anyone who pays us any attention. And if an FA happens to be be called out on his questionable behavior, he's not to blame. "It's just a misunderstanding" because it's the personalities of the "fatties" - and because of what the "fatties" have experienced at the hands of others (including some  FAs). Yeah, it's always the fault of the "fattie". Kind of reminds me of what giving FAs a pass is all about. 

Making excuses for bad behavior only encourages more bad behavior. 

One more thing. Do you realize how that "SO died" comment comes off? It's like you are saying that if a "fattie" dies it was by choice and intentional and therefore it's the "fattie's" fault if the FA/FFA they were in a relationship with hurts emotionally or mourns after the death. Let me tell you something. There are "fatties" here who have been deeply wounded, wounded to the core, because their SO - or the FA or FFA they loved passed away. Do you see anyone else here blaming the SO of the "fattie" or those FA or FFA who died? Do you realize how insensitive what you posted was? "Fatties" don't choose to die. They don't intentionally die just so that someone they love or someone who loves them ends up hurting emotionally. Do you have any idea of how hard some "fatties" here fight (or fought) to stay alive or of how hard they fight every single day of their life to try and be as healthy as they possibly can?


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## Angel (Aug 31, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> I'm a FA. I'm attracted to fat girls.
> 
> I'm also a human being. I like monogamous relationships, fidelity, respect, partners reaching common goals as they support each other's individual endeavors.
> 
> ...



Thank you. 

I wish that every FA and FFA would go back and read what you posted. Especially the bolded text. 

The good guys do have it tough..... and it's because sometimes it takes years to undo the damage that bad guys have caused. 

The good guys and the sincere guys have to work that much harder to prove that they are the exception. 

And it's not always fair to the good guys. If he is sincere, he will understand why there are layers and layers to get through and he will understand why the walls of self protection are so solid and so high. 


Thank you again, wrestlingguy. 

At least one man/FA seems to get it.


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## frankman (Aug 31, 2010)

Rebecca said:


> I really think you have misunderstood what I was saying in that post. I'm not suggesting that FAs are any different than the rest of the world, in fact I'm saying the exact opposite. I'm saying that FAs are people like anyone else and shouldn't be excused from bad behavior just because they like fat people.
> 
> Too many times, especially here,all that has to happen for bad behavior to slide is an FA will say "but I'm a good guy, I like fat people, I'm not sizist"
> 
> So it isn't that they are or aren't good guys--they may or may not be, it's that some of them use the "good guy" card to get out of bad behavior and we (the people of the board) let them.



Give ONE example of a good-guy card being _accepted_ and I'll believe your stance in every subsequent post.

But there isn't. This board is pretty vicious. I've seen people get verbally assaulted just because they used the wrong phrasing. I don't mind, it's how people learn; getting called on their slip-ups, but trust me, people in this forum are too harsh sooner than too mellow. Probably logical if even half of the bad stuff posted here happened to any of the board members, but still.

I'm all for guys not being dicks, but it's not like dicks get away with anything on this board, so it's a self-modding scenario. People will keep on attacking stupid remarks, and good people will learn and become better people, bad people will be butt-hurt and leave. Or they shut up and lurk.

(this post pertains to the forum. Since I don't use the chat, I don't know anything about the situation there)


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## MzDeeZyre (Aug 31, 2010)

MizzSnakeBite said:


> There are plenty, and I mean _plenty_, of "fatties" that give and give and give to their SOs until they can give no more. Just sayin'.
> 
> And I'm not going to even touch the "their SO died" statement. All I can say to that is, wow.



You are so very right MSB..... not every BBW/SSBBW is out to please themselves. There still are those of us with good core beliefs that would do for someone else, before themselves. Apparently folks haven't looked in the right places......



Angel said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I wish that every FA and FFA would go back and read what you posted. Especially the bolded text.
> 
> ...



I agree with this 100%. On the same token, I'd like to bring up what you stated above:

"The good guys do have it tough..... and it's because sometimes it takes years to undo the damage that bad guys have caused. 

The good guys and the sincere guys have to work that much harder to prove that they are the exception. 

And it's not always fair to the good guys. If he is sincere, he will understand why there are layers and layers to get through and he will understand why the walls of self protection are so solid and so high. "



This is true for women also. There are men in this world that have been SO damaged by the BAD women in their lives. That when they come upon a good girl, they don't trust her. They don't know that they can even stand up to their end of a relationship, because their previous girlfriends/wives have them so completely fucked up over all of the shit that they put them through. Should they be faulted for that? Absolutely not.

There are givers and takers on both sides of this spectrum, and I am pretty sure we all can name a few of each. It doesn't matter in the end. What matters is at the end of the night when you are curled up next to your significant other, and you know in your heart that you are doing absolutely everything you can, to let them know how very special they are to you. 

So while we're all out here whistling Dixie, and making this out to only seem like an FA issue.... it's a real life issue for many BBW/SSBBW's as well. There are people in this world who take.... Fat/Thin Male/Female. It's not just within this community. But there are also people who give.... There will always be bad people where ever you go in life......the key is finding the right match and making it work for you.

So maybe.... instead of holding FA's to a higher standard..... We should worry about holding ourselves to higher standards and not accepting anything less than we deserve??


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## LillyBBBW (Aug 31, 2010)

MzDeeZyre said:


> You are so very right MSB..... not every BBW/SSBBW is out to please themselves. There still are those of us with good core beliefs that would do for someone else, before themselves. Apparently folks haven't looked in the right places......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree with this while struggling with it at the same time. I simply wont stand for being treated like a second class citizen simply because some guy was cheated on or given the run around by some other woman. He's not going to speak to me or treat me any old kind of way nor do I feel I should tolerate it because bad women exist. It's not my fault. At the same time I can't use the same tool of torture against someone simply because I met a few bad apples. Not saying I'm good at this at all, just saying. It's a two way street but there's a right and a wrong way to vocalize what we're looking for.


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## MzDeeZyre (Aug 31, 2010)

LillyBBBW said:


> I agree with this while struggling with it at the same time. I simply wont stand for being treated like a second class citizen simply because some guy was cheated on or given the run around by some other woman. He's not going to speak to me or treat me any old kind of way nor do I feel I should tolerate it because bad women exist. It's not my fault. At the same time I can't use the same tool of torture against someone simply because I met a few bad apples. Not saying I'm good at this at all, just saying. It's a two way street but there's a right and a wrong way to vocalize what we're looking for.



Absolutely..... I guess what I was trying to get across is that I will be patient, and understanding that he isn't where I necessarily am. Not everyone moves at the same speed, and if we are moving together towards a common goal I am MUCH more tolerant. That being said, I don't think it is EVER acceptable to be treated like crap, and to feel like you aren't good enough, or that you aren't doing absolutely everything in your power to prove to him that you aren't like the others. There has to be a natural balance of give and take in all relationships.....and nothing worth having happens immediately. I remind myself of this quite often.


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## Ruby Ripples (Aug 31, 2010)

Thanks for starting this interesting thread, Rebecca. I have only read the first page so far. By far the most disgusting, nasty, vicious and plain unforgiveable post against SSBBWs that I've ever seen in my time online, was one written by a self-proclaimed (HUNDREDS of times) "good guy fa" on this site. It truly showed his true colours. I was horrified that the posts following it were from other SSBBWS petting and fawning over him. The nasty post was all because he didn't want ssbbws to have our own forum for discussing things that we COULDN'T discuss on the main board. 

He has never apologised for that post, which was of course quickly removed. He is not, and never will be, a good guy. No good person would ever have posted something like that. Whatever they say.

People who blow their own trumpet repeatedly are just trying to convince themselves and others. Doesn't work though. lol

I would like to say that I don't apply to this to all FAs at all, just that one.


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## LillyBBBW (Aug 31, 2010)

Ruby Ripples said:


> Thanks for starting this interesting thread, Rebecca. I have only read the first page so far. By far the most disgusting, nasty, vicious and plain unforgiveable post against SSBBWs that I've ever seen in my time online, was one written by a self-proclaimed (HUNDREDS of times) "good guy fa" on this site. It truly showed his true colours. I was horrified that the posts following it were from other SSBBWS petting and fawning over him. The nasty post was all because he didn't want ssbbws to have our own forum for discussing things that we COULDN'T discuss on the main board.
> 
> He has never apologised for that post, which was of course quickly removed. He is not, and never will be, a good guy. No good person would ever have posted something like that. Whatever they say.
> 
> ...



I think I know who you are talking about and I aint exactly on friendly terms with that guy either.  Though in his defense I think there is a big difference between having a VERY unpopular opinion and being a bad person. There are several people here whom I wouldn't want to be burried next to due to their opinions on things but are pretty decent people otherwise. They're not wife beaters, rapists, liars, users, insincere in their intentions, etc. I have to give this person the benefit of the doubt even though it's killing me softly to do so. :doh: I think this is the crux of what I was getting at. We don't necessarily hold to the same opinions all the time here Rubes but I wouldn't go so far as to say that you are a bad bbw just because something you said didn't sit well. Sometimes I do think that the label 'bad' is used a bit too liberally.


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## mossystate (Aug 31, 2010)

Ruby Ripples said:


> Thanks for starting this interesting thread, Rebecca. I have only read the first page so far. By far the most disgusting, nasty, vicious and plain unforgiveable post against SSBBWs that I've ever seen in my time online, was one written by a self-proclaimed (HUNDREDS of times) "good guy fa" on this site. It truly showed his true colours. I was horrified that the posts following it were from other SSBBWS petting and fawning over him. The nasty post was all because he didn't want ssbbws to have our own forum for discussing things that we COULDN'T discuss on the main board.



Think I know who you are talking about, and it wasn't just that post. Yeah. When you start piecing together all the bits of ugly, and I am talking about things that directly affect the ' good 'fa' ' standing. I think it might depend on what one sees. Good example of a person who wrapped themselves in a ' fa ' flag.


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## TraciJo67 (Aug 31, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> I'm a FA. I'm attracted to fat girls.
> 
> I'm also a human being. I like monogamous relationships, fidelity, respect, partners reaching common goals as they support each other's individual endeavors.
> 
> ...


 
Phil, I say this with utmost respect for you, and I wondered about saying it at all. I understand what you're driving at with your post. I just also wonder about the theme I see running just under what you've posted, which is that you choose emotionally damaged women. 

I've been hurt, betrayed, humiliated, stood up. You can't live without experiencing that. When I was young, I wasn't able to rebound so quickly, because I didn't understand perspective (knowing that no matter how awful I felt about a betrayal, a relationship ending, etc ... tomorrow it would hurt just a little bit less, and every tomorrow after that). It seems to me that some people learn to be emotionally resilient -- a lucky few are born that way -- and others just never acquire that skill. 

I guess what I'm saying is, we're all responsible for how we're treated (which doesn't negate the fact that assholes are assholes) and for learning from those experiences. If I continued to find myself drawn to assholes, I'd have to question my own role in that. Likewise, if I continued to find myself in relationships with men who had been damaged to the extent that they couldn't trust, I'd have to wonder about my role in choosing people who weren't emotionally resilient. I wouldn't lay all of the blame on the jerks who went before me. Maybe not even most of it? (and yes, that is a question -- I don't know how much of my opinion is based on my own circumstances, as I haven't had many partners for comparison).


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## LillyBBBW (Aug 31, 2010)

TraciJo67 said:


> Phil, I say this with utmost respect for you, and I wondered about saying it at all. I understand what you're driving at with your post. I just also wonder about the theme I see running just under what you've posted, which is that you choose emotionally damaged women.
> 
> I've been hurt, betrayed, humiliated, stood up. You can't live without experiencing that. When I was young, I wasn't able to rebound so quickly, because I didn't understand perspective (knowing that no matter how awful I felt about a betrayal, a relationship ending, etc ... tomorrow it would hurt just a little bit less, and every tomorrow after that). It seems to me that some people learn to be emotionally resilient -- a lucky few are born that way -- and others just never acquire that skill.
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is, we're all responsible for how we're treated (which doesn't negate the fact that assholes are assholes) and for learning from those experiences. If I continued to find myself drawn to assholes, I'd have to question my own role in that. Likewise, if I continued to find myself in relationships with men who had been damaged to the extent that they couldn't trust, I'd have to wonder about my role in choosing people who weren't emotionally resilient. I wouldn't lay all of the blame on the jerks who went before me. Maybe not even most of it? (and yes, that is a question -- I don't know how much of my opinion is based on my own circumstances, as I haven't had many partners for comparison).



This has been true for me also, not just in romantic relationships but in ALL kinds. I found myself constantly being stiffed on the tab for things, being taken advantage of, stabbed in the back, etc. by friends. History repeated itself so often that I couldnt help but stop and take a look at what I've been doing to facilitate this. The profundity of it all was expecting my friends to treat me as if I deserve better when by my choosing them in the first place I was demonstrated that I didn't even believe it myself. Profound for me at least. I do believe that people should be held accountable for their actions but oftentimes we have more power in these situations than we realize. We simply need to realize. I try to do so while at the same time respecting exactly where someone is at in their life at that moment. We all have to travel from somewhere to get here.


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## joswitch (Aug 31, 2010)

Rebecca said:


> The most common complaint I hear from FAs is that the fatties they so love and adore (or at least find attractive) often lack confidence and/or find it weird or strange or even off-putting that someone might love a part of themselves that they actually hate-- ie fat. If I'm wrong here, please let me know, but I'm pretty sure that this basic assertion is right and accurate.
> 
> Given the above point, I put forth the idea that FAs hold BBW, SSBBW, BHM, SSBHM (henceforth known as the fatties they love) to a higher standard than the rest of the world. A good portion of the Western World's population would list body-issues as something with which they struggle. Moreover, our advertisers, movies, television shows, families, and friends support and even actively enforce and encourage that struggle. On top of that add the fact that these messages are aimed disproportionately at fat people. So, basically FAs want from us something that most of the Western World can't really do very well when the forces working against us doing it are even greater than those against our peers of average weight. A higher standard.
> 
> *snip*



Hmmmmm...



> The thing is when the Good Guy FA screws up and says or does something really stupid; s/he has his/her Good Guy FA card to play. Come on, I'm one of the Good Guys; you know I didn't mean it that way. And s/he gets a pass.



^I hear a lot about the special treatment of FAs and FA entitlement etc.etc. on Dims... But - nowhere else... Certainly *this^ "FA free pass" has never happened to me IRL with actual gfs.* I can't imagine it ever would.



> Meanwhile, whatever stupid thing s/he did or said is still hanging out there being a very poor representation of what FAs should probably be



^FAs are not in a union.
Nor are men.

I am no more responsible nor acountable to other FAs, nor men for my romantic successes or failures... Just because I share an orientation, or a genital assignment with some other people does not = a collective / league of some nature...



> if they actually (and I mean truly) want the fatties they love to be confident. What's worse is we fatties [they love] are the ones giving them the passes.
> 
> I'm not saying people don't deserve forgiveness or that we're not all entitled to screw ups. What I'm saying is that if FAs want to be a positive force in the movement to help fatties gain respect in the outside world and confidence on the inside, a better reaction to screw ups might be to own them, to claim them for what they are, to learn from them, and to become better FAs. This not only diffuses whatever stupid thing was said or done, it teaches a new generation of FAs how to deal with similar sticky situations.
> 
> That's why I'm suggesting that we fatties and the FAs we love retire the Good Guy FA cardnot the love or acceptance we have for FAs, just our tendency to give them a pass simply because they like fatties and don't generally side with the Creeps. That just isn't good enough. Liking fatties isn't a good enough reason to let rudeness and hurtful comments or actions slide. I think we should expect and even demand more: we should demand that when and if they do or say something that hurts fatties or Fat Acceptance, they take responsibility for it, learn from it, and move on.



You know this is all very vague. It doesn't resonate with my life experience at all. Maybe if you gave examples?



> We should expect them to step in when another FA is doing something to tarnish the term 'FA.' *snip*.[/I]



No. FAs do not = the Borg.
Each person is responsible for their own behaviour.

Sure, when I see some prick beating his missus in the street I stop and intervene (at least three times I count to date), but not because he tarnishes the term 'man'. I do not feel some weird collective guilt at his actions. I intervene cos it's the right thing to do, to stop someone being hurt.
That said if a couple are just mouthing off at one another, with no sign of escalation, I'll leave it entirely alone. You gotta draw a line somewhere...


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## joswitch (Aug 31, 2010)

Rebecca said:


> No one said give up the good guy status, just the free pass card. I'm just saying being one of the "Good Guys" shouldn't give someone a pass for being a jerk. Moreover, if we are already owning up to our screw ups, then this doesn't really concern us, does it?



Who are these "free pass" guys anyway?


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## joswitch (Aug 31, 2010)

Jes said:


> I'd like for the shitty Dims men I've encountered (and not all of them are, certainly) to stop calling themselves 'one of the good FAs.' I'm not sure that while you're* telling me that you want to meet me and sex me up, because your GF* lives a whole 2 hours away and you can't get there and you're oh-so-horny, and why don't I come out tonight and meet you and blah blah blah' you can also be 'one of the good FAs.' What an insanely high, and undeserved, opinion of yourself! The hypocrisy! The sheer grossness of it all.
> 
> 
> *names available on request. Thank goodness I have a habit of keeping PMs!




Aha! So:
The "Good FA / free pass" guy = the fake "Nice Guy".
So you and Rebecca are complaining about guys who say they are "Nice" and try to use that idea to get whatever, when those guys are not nice at all, and in fact are assholes.
Ok.
I get it now.
Real good guys never say "Hey I'm a good guy".


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## CastingPearls (Aug 31, 2010)

Guys who like women of all descriptions and women who like guys of all descriptions use that 'free pass' shit all the time. They say, 'I'm not like this or that (insert negative descriptor here) guy' to get over and do get over because people are gullible or they're pathological predators and are good at snowing everyone. 

It's not isolated to FAs only and to paint them as such is disingenuous.


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## joswitch (Aug 31, 2010)

Angel said:


> I think that creature is on the endangered species list; or may possibly be extinct already.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



But no-one could afford them, on account of the credit-crunch.


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## joswitch (Aug 31, 2010)

Rebecca said:


> I really think you have misunderstood what I was saying in that post. I'm not suggesting that FAs are any different than the rest of the world, in fact I'm saying the exact opposite. I'm saying that FAs are people like anyone else and shouldn't be excused from bad behavior just because they like fat people.
> 
> Too many times, especially here,all that has to happen for bad behavior to slide is an FA will say "but I'm a good guy, I like fat people, I'm not sizist"
> 
> So it isn't that they are or aren't good guys--they may or may not be, it's that some of them use the "good guy" card to get out of bad behavior and we (the people of the board) let them.



I have spent waaaaaaaay too much time on DIMS the last few months...
but I don't recall seeing anything like this^...
I do recall a lot of dinks getting flamed to a crisp char, though...


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## chicken legs (Aug 31, 2010)

MizzSnakeBite said:


> There are plenty, and I mean _plenty_, of "fatties" that give and give and give to their SOs until they can give no more. Just sayin'.
> 
> And I'm not going to even touch the "their SO died" statement. All I can say to that is, wow.



There may be plenty of "fatties" (i really don't like that term) who give, but there are plenty of Fa/FFa who give as well, and everyone has things they need to own up to. Frankly, bashing any particular group doesn't sit well with me because we work off of each other, which is why I asked what/who inspired the post in the first place. The OP's post felt like the tip of an a relationship iceberg. 

It may sound harsh but there is only 3 ways out of a serious relationship. A person can become a ghost of themselves (mentally escape), they bail, or they die.


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## Szombathy (Aug 31, 2010)

To summarize this thread:

1) FA's are people. 
Some people are jerks.
Therefore, some FA's are jerks.

2) BBW/BHM ("fatties") are also people.
Therefore, some "fatties" are jerks.

3) For reasons of social conditioning, some but not all "fatties" have perhaps felt that they have received a greater amount of criticism about their looks in the past from the general public than average people.

4) "Fatties" can respond to this feeling of a lack of security by either being too receptive to the cloying affections of those whom they desire or by being too closed off to any such affection, or paradoxically they can be both at the same time.

5) A portion of the FA's who are jerks will respond by trying to take advantage of these insecurities, thus further exacerbating them. 

6) FA's who are trying not to be jerks will overcompensate for this by being too emphatic that their motives are pure, thus making the problem worse by seeming insincere.


Did I get this right?


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## LordQuas (Sep 1, 2010)

This thread reminds me why I never got into forums centered around the BBW "community". The baggage that most bigger women and those who are attracted to them carry around is just incredible to me and that fact that both sides criticize the other for not being accommodating enough is even worse. I hate terms like BBW, FA, etc because they only serve to separate "us" from everyone else when at the end of the day we are all people. It doesnt matter if you get shit for being fat, skinny, dark, pastey, whatever. At the end of the day you can't project what has happened to you in the past onto everyone you meet. Im all for learning from past experiences and such but it's unfair and stupid to keep bringing past baggage to every potential mate and just expecting them to deal with it. And to reiterate, this applies to both men and women. I'm sorry if this comes off as a bit disjointed but I've been lurking on this forum for quite some time and I never post because I don't want people jumping down my throat but I just couldn't read this without putting in my two cents so there it is


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## LordQuas (Sep 1, 2010)

I'd like to know where I can purchase this "FA Free Pass"


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## Dromond (Sep 1, 2010)

A good person does not say they are a good person. They don't have to, it is self evident.


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## t3h_n00b (Sep 2, 2010)

Why does everybody want to play cards all of a sudden?

There's the "race card", the "fa good guy card", the "reverse racism card", the "woman card", the "gay card", the "[whatever you think you are] card" etc. What are the rules of this game and what other cards are in the deck? FWIW, I think it all sounds stupider than a game of Pokemon solitaire.


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## LillyBBBW (Sep 2, 2010)

t3h_n00b said:


> Why does everybody want to play cards all of a sudden?
> 
> There's the "race card", the "fa good guy card", the "reverse racism card", the "woman card", the "gay card", the "[whatever you think you are] card" etc. What are the rules of this game and what other cards are in the deck? FWIW, I think it all sounds stupider than a game of Pokemon solitaire.



Just DON'T get the Old Maid card.


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## MizzSnakeBite (Sep 2, 2010)

chicken legs said:


> There may be plenty of "fatties" (i really don't like that term) who give, but there are plenty of Fa/FFa who give as well, and everyone has things they need to own up to. Frankly, bashing any particular group doesn't sit well with me because we work off of each other, which is why I asked what/who inspired the post in the first place. The OP's post felt like the tip of an a relationship iceberg.
> 
> It may sound harsh but there is only 3 ways out of a serious relationship. A person can become a ghost of themselves (mentally escape), they bail, or they die.



Here's an unsolicited tip: When accusing someone of not "addressing both parties," it's generally best not to commit that act yourself.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Sep 2, 2010)

Dromond said:


> A good person does not say they are a good person. They don't have to, it is self evident.



"Oh, what a tangled web we weave
When first we practice to deceive..."

We give ourselves away, don't we, by overcompensating where we wish to be deceptive? If someone emphasizes that he's a "good guy", expect betrayal. And the person who peppers her remarks with "honestly" and "to tell the truth" is lying to you.


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## toni (Sep 3, 2010)

Dromond said:


> A good person does not say they are a good person. They don't have to, it is self evident.



Duplicate...oops


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## toni (Sep 3, 2010)

Dromond said:


> A good person does not say they are a good person. They don't have to, it is self evident.





Dr. Feelgood said:


> "Oh, what a tangled web we weave
> When first we practice to deceive..."
> 
> We give ourselves away, don't we, by overcompensating where we wish to be deceptive? If someone emphasizes that he's a "good guy", expect betrayal. And the person who peppers her remarks with "honestly" and "to tell the truth" is lying to you.




This! 

Time after time I find this to hold true in all aspects of life. Family, friends, lovers and co workers.


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## Lovelyone (Sep 3, 2010)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> "Oh, what a tangled web we weave
> When first we practice to deceive..."
> 
> We give ourselves away, don't we, by overcompensating where we wish to be deceptive? If someone emphasizes that he's a "good guy", expect betrayal. And the person who peppers her remarks with "honestly" and "to tell the truth" is lying to you.



I totally do not agree with you that someone who says "honestly" and "to tell the truth" is lying to you. There are people who use those terms while being completely honest and totally truthful.


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## Lovelyone (Sep 3, 2010)

LillyBBBW said:


> Just DON'T get the Old Maid card.



Might want to avoid the death card too.


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## KHayes666 (Sep 3, 2010)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> "Oh, what a tangled web we weave
> When first we practice to deceive..."
> 
> We give ourselves away, don't we, by overcompensating where we wish to be deceptive? If someone emphasizes that he's a "good guy", expect betrayal. And the person who peppers her remarks with "honestly" and "to tell the truth" is lying to you.



I've been completely, and sometimes even brutally honest with my g/f. When I say "honestly" and "to tell the truth" I'm actually being honest. What experiences have you had to lead you to your conclusion?


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## frankman (Sep 3, 2010)

KHayes666 said:


> I've been completely, and sometimes even brutally honest with my g/f. When I say "honestly" and "to tell the truth" I'm actually being honest. What experiences have you had to lead you to your conclusion?



It's about over-use, not casual use. I say those terms sometimes as well, but when somebody assures you the they Honestly, Truthfully are Not Lying about something, in fact they are willing in all Sincerety to Swear on their mother's grave about it, there's a good chance you're being scammed.

There's a big difference between that last sentence and sometimes saying "frankly my dear, I don't give a damn."


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## LillyBBBW (Sep 3, 2010)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> "Oh, what a tangled web we weave
> When first we practice to deceive..."
> 
> We give ourselves away, don't we, by overcompensating where we wish to be deceptive? If someone emphasizes that he's a "good guy", expect betrayal. And the person who peppers her remarks with "honestly" and "to tell the truth" is lying to you.



Yeah, I say "Honestly" and stuff a lot. Usually I start sentences like that when I'm about to share something that is unpopular, unflattering or maybe unexpected. "To tell the truth I'm not really a fan of Billy Holiday at all," would not be a lie.


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## frankman (Sep 3, 2010)

LillyBBBW said:


> Yeah, I say "Honestly" and stuff a lot. Usually I start sentences like that when I'm about to share something that is unpopular, unflattering or maybe unexpected. "To tell the truth I'm not really a fan of Billy Holiday at all," would not be a lie.



But in all honesty it would be kind of wrong.


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## toni (Sep 3, 2010)

Lovelyone said:


> I totally do not agree with you that someone who says "honestly" and "to tell the truth" is lying to you. There are people who use those terms while being completely honest and totally truthful.



It's not an absolute but you have to take it in context.


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## Lovelyone (Sep 3, 2010)

LillyBBBW said:


> Yeah, I say "Honestly" and stuff a lot. Usually I start sentences like that when I'm about to share something that is unpopular, unflattering or maybe unexpected. "To tell the truth I'm not really a fan of Billy Holiday at all," would not be a lie.





toni said:


> It's not an absolute but you have to take it in context.



I can understand what you say about context. I realize that there ARE people who use those things to put a lie past someone, but not EVERYONE does that. Much like Lilly, I have used "honestly", and "to tell the truth" as a buffer when I want to say something that might not be as acceptable, or flattering, and unpopular, or if I have something to say that might be hurtful to someone else--but I've never used it to lie. When I say "to tell the truth" you can be sure that its coming from a good place and that what I am saying is truly what I believe. for example in the following conversation if a bbw were to ask:

"Do these pants make my butt look big?" 
in some circumstances an admirer might say "Honesty, those pants make you look hot" but that's HIS opinion. 
Another person's opinion might be: "Truth be told, they really aren't all that flattering on you." 
Neither is a lie.


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## CastingPearls (Sep 3, 2010)

I think people are being deliberately obtuse when they misunderstand what Feelgood is saying. There are plenty of people who say 'honestly' et al and mean it but there are many people who say it so much that they appear to be trying to convince themselves as well as you and it blatantly reeks of deceit. However, this applies to anyone, not just FAs.


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## toni (Sep 3, 2010)

Lovelyone said:


> I can understand what you say about context. I realize that there ARE people who use those things to put a lie past someone, but not EVERYONE does that.



With all due respect, if you understand why are you still insisting? 

Honestly, I like your hair curly instead of straight. - NOT A LIE
Honestly baby, it wasn't me your sister saw kissing that girl. - LIE


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## Lovelyone (Sep 3, 2010)

toni said:


> With all due respect, if you understand why are you still insisting?
> 
> Honestly, I like your hair curly instead of straight. - NOT A LIE
> Honestly baby, it wasn't me your sister saw kissing that girl. - LIE



Thanks for the due respect, which I offer right back to you. Without trying to to get into a pissing match with anyone, I was just stating my opinion. No one has to agree with it. I didn't think that I was trying to INSIST--as much as prove a point that its not exactly true that when Dr. Feelgood said, "And the person who peppers her remarks with "honestly" and "to tell the truth" is lying to you". That's a blanket statement that covers everyone, however NOT everyone is lying when they say those things. Sorry to have offended, but as I said, its just MY opinion.


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## KHayes666 (Sep 4, 2010)

toni said:


> With all due respect, if you understand why are you still insisting?
> 
> Honestly, I like your hair curly instead of straight. - NOT A LIE
> *Honestly baby, it wasn't me your sister saw kissing that girl. - LIE*



That's not always a lie. Sometimes the sister can be a lying sack of shiite herself and make up stories to sabotage relationships.

I get your point though in one Honestly being different from the other.


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## thirtiesgirl (Sep 7, 2010)

LillyBBBW said:


> Just DON'T get the Old Maid card.



Heh. I was handed that one from birth. Now if you'll excuse me, I must go meet with my bridge club.


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## Russ2d (Sep 7, 2010)

LillyBBBW said:


> I agree with this while struggling with it at the same time. I simply wont stand for being treated like a second class citizen simply because some guy was cheated on or given the run around by some other woman. He's not going to speak to me or treat me any old kind of way nor do I feel I should tolerate it because bad women exist. It's not my fault. At the same time I can't use the same tool of torture against someone simply because I met a few bad apples. Not saying I'm good at this at all, just saying. It's a two way street but there's a right and a wrong way to vocalize what we're looking for.



I agree with Lilly here, 

Nobody likes to be pre-judged, regardless of the bad experiences someone had with SOMEONE else. It's understandable if that person is on their guard but inflicting it upon the person they are now with is unacceptable.

Also, I don't know, I find this thread to be akin to banging a square peg into a round hole. There is no one standard. People are people- they can be rude, or overly sensitive, they can make mistakes or wrongly be perceived to have, what is upsetting to one is not to another- and on and on

Each situation requires direct communication with the person you're dealing with at that time


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## bmann0413 (Sep 8, 2010)

I have ulterior motives? I never knew.


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## Fox (Sep 9, 2010)

I never saw it as a good guys vs. creeps thing. That's just a clever guise so we can be controlled and pushed around. It's basically like how they took health care away from obese people, and everybody was cheering about it because THEY DIDN'T WANT NO FATTIES STEALING THE HEALTHCARE! Since we let it happen (and in fact wanted it to happen) The government eventually took out all the healthcare. Then when we got our healthcare back, they eventually scared hundreds of Republican Christians into protesting against it, just because Obama's the one who passed it.
In my honest opinion, fat vs. skinny, gay vs. straight, republican vs. democrat, are all little fights keeping our minds away from the really big one: Rich vs. poor. Those who seek control vs. those they seek to take control of.


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## That Guy You Met Once (Sep 12, 2010)

I've met assholes of all sizes and both genders.

Applying any kind of behavioral labels or standards to FAs (or BBWs, BHMs, etc.) that you wouldn't to any random person on the street is foolish.

...Although I will gladly admit dims has far fewer assholes than most communities I've seen.


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## Ample Pie (Sep 12, 2010)

I wish I'd remembered this older post before I typed _this _long ass post, because, yeah, it basically says what I was trying to say.



LoveBHMS said:


> When somebody's post includes such gems as
> 
> "You big beautiful ladies have more important things to do, like discuss hygene issues... or which stores have the cutest super-sized toilet seat covers."
> 
> ...



For the record, I'm not calling Stan on the carpet, the particular event in this post was all LONG AGO addressed and filed under "solved." I just think the gist of the statement was what I was trying to say with this "FA card" thread. Also, no, it wasn't Stan or even anyone here who inspired the rant/thread.


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