# What does it all really mean?



## MisticalMisty (Apr 10, 2006)

I asked these questions of another poster in a different thread and I wanted to know the opinions of everyone else. The questions are:

Does this (the posts of the last few days over-run with generalzations and sterotypes) mean that we haven't made any real strides in the fat acceptance movement? What does it mean for the future of fat acceptance?


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## Sandie S-R (Apr 10, 2006)

Hey MM...

I think what it means to me is that we are all a complex group of individuals with complicated feelings, dreams, needs and desires. The only single thing that we have in common is that we either are fat (to one degree or another), or are an admirer of the fat (to one degree or another).

If this were a perfect world, we would all respect each other's needs, dreams, desires, and goals...but we all know it is not perfect. We all bring such a diverse and complicated background to the mix - depending on where we are from, how our families have raised us, and what our past experiences have been (especially with relationships). 

I would hope that at the least (here on theis web board), we would all be willing to listen to each other and learn from one another. At the very least gain more tollerance of other's lives and needs, and not just be focused on our own personal stuff. But some folks appear to just be stuck where they are, and for whatever reason, can't see beyond their own clouded perspective.

Regardless, it is good that we talk about all this stuff. With any luck at all, we will all be better people for it. But, then I am always the optimistic type.


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## pickleman357 (Apr 10, 2006)

There are always new, curious FAs coming into the comunity as well.

Plus, I think the biggest thing is to kinda looks like a war to me
*Mainstream says fat is ugly*
_we say its not_
*Mainstream says fat is unhealthy*
_we say its not_
*Mainstream says fat is unhealthy for a new reason*
_We say, WTF?_
*Mainstream pushes that you have to be thin to be beautiful*
_We point out that there are many FAs in the world, despite the fact that a lot of them are in-the-closet/shy about it. Probably because of the mainstream_
*Mainstream makes a bunch of BS stereotypes in movies, books etc.*
_We try and make some good movies/books where fat women are protrated in a positive light. Like 'Phat Girlz' and 'Pizza'_
etc

its just back and forth. Yes, there shouldn't be a war, there should never be any. But it seems to be in human nature to attack what we don't understand.
So its definatly going to be a long hard road to win this, but the worse thing we can do is give up. Especially a great fighter like you Misty!


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## sweetnnekked (Apr 10, 2006)

MisticalMisty said:


> I asked these questions of another poster in a different thread and I wanted to know the opinions of everyone else. The questions are:
> 
> Does this (the posts of the last few days over-run with generalzations and sterotypes) mean that we haven't made any real strides in the fat acceptance movement? What does it mean for the future of fat acceptance?



I belive we've made great strides in changing stereotypes and generalizations amongst ourselves but not so much with the general population.
These changes always take a slower amount of time over a longer period. We could compare it, although possibly with not as much impact and hatred, as the plight of African Americans and their fight for freedom and equality.
The same types of bigotry and ignorance exist against us and our African American brothers and sisters. 
What we need to do is educate our children. Teach them that just because people are different doesn't make them bad. We also need more acceptance in Hollywood of people like Camryn Manheim, large folks portraying us in a positive, everyday light and not just a bunch of goofballs to laugh at!


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## Boteroesque Babe (Apr 10, 2006)

MisticalMisty said:


> Does this (the posts of the last few days over-run with generalzations and sterotypes) mean that we haven't made any real strides in the fat acceptance movement? What does it mean for the future of fat acceptance?


I can answer that no better than this man has. And he did it without hair-pulling or name-calling.

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?p=97960#post97960


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## moonvine (Apr 10, 2006)

MisticalMisty said:


> I asked these questions of another poster in a different thread and I wanted to know the opinions of everyone else. The questions are:
> 
> Does this (the posts of the last few days over-run with generalzations and sterotypes) mean that we haven't made any real strides in the fat acceptance movement? What does it mean for the future of fat acceptance?




I'm not sure how to say this without offending anyone, and I hope I *don't* offend anyone. I think this board may have some use as a "jumping off" point for the fat acceptance movement - in other words, it could be an introduction to someone that the fat acceptance movement exists and is out there, but I don't think that it has much relation to the fat acceptance movement as a whole. It is a discussion board, and one that is only tangentially related to the fat acceptance movement, if at all.

Right now, I think the fat acceptance movement is spinning its wheels. People can't even, after so many years, decide which direction to go with it or what it should encompass. The two main fat acceptance orgs, NAAFA and ISAA, are terribly underfunded and unable to do a whole lot (contrast that to something like AARP). The numbers of fat people are out there to form a significant voting block, and exert significant political pressure, but it hasn't ever happened. I hope that it someday will.

Either way, I don't think this board can be used as a barometer of anything that is happening in the fat acceptance movement. I think a better barometer would be Big Fat Blog, which tracks fat related news stories and has discussion of those news stories.


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## Carrie (Apr 10, 2006)

I think it's important for all of us to remember that this group, while we do certainly have a common interest and in some cases point of view, is comprised of individuals. Individuals who have had different experiences, and who are at very different stages in their lives, and different "rest stops" of their metaphorical journeys in the world of size acceptance. 

I'll give you an example. A nineteen year old man and a forty year old man can both identify themselves as FA's, but I'm not going to expect them to to embrace the same exact ideals and philosophies in the way they express and act upon their admiration of fat women. I think the very young FA's who are "out and proud" are wonderful, but I also think they're fairly rare. It's very common for a very young FA to be struggling with coming to terms with his preferences and how it will affect his life, including his relationships with family and friends. On the other hand, I would hope that most older, "seasoned" FA's have had gathered sufficient experience and life wisdom to fully embrace their preferences and find ways to follow their bliss openly. 

So while both of them are attracted to fat women, they are most likely at very different points of incorporating their preference into their lives. 

So the point I'm trying to illustrate here, albeit long-windedly, is that while most of us share this journey of embracing fat in a largely fat-hating world, we are all at different points in that journey. People are going to say bone-headed things - sometimes inadvertently, sometimes purposely. And it would probably be good if we could all be a bit more open to gleaning the spirit in which a comment was intended before assuming it was said with malice. That way, if it was a comment that *I* find insulting, if it was inexperience talking vs. obnoxiousness, I can say, "You know what? I think I understand what you're getting at, but let me tell you how what you said made me feel." 

I understand that as fat women, it's difficult to hear hurtful comments come out of a FA's mouth. I mean, they're supposed to be our allies, right? Our advocates, our heros, our knights in shining armor! Nope. They're just people. People who struggle with the repurcussions of loving fat women in a thin-centric world, and people who, despite their best intentions, will sometimes say hurtful things. Because here's the thing: unless you're a significantly fat person, you don't know what it's like to *be* a significantly fat person. You may be the most understanding, empathetic person in the world, but you still do not know what it's like to have lived your life as a fat person - so yes, you will probably sometimes say things that are unintentionally hurtful, or vexing to me, as a fat person. 

And this is why places like Dimensions are so important. This is a venue for us in which to educate each other, to share experiences and ideas, to better understand the challenges of living as a fat person or a FA. 

I hope I'm not coming across as holier-than-thou here. I always hate posts where people are like, "Why can't we all just get aloooooooong?", or worse, "Ooooh, look at me, I'm so wise!". Truthfully, I read the post about what's too fat to date and it really chapped my ass. But when I took a few minutes to think about it, I realized that the person asking the question was really trying to ask some legitimate questions in his post - what are some of your concerns in dating a larger fat woman vs. smaller? How do you deal with familial and societal pressure? - and just didn't express it as well as he might have hoped. But it was evident to me (again, once my Irish went back down ), that what he said wasn't meant to be offensive or hurtful. Thanks to some constructive comments in his thread, he now understands how his question could have been misconstrued, and he took responsibility for his words and apologized - a true class act, I'd say. 

That's about it, I guess. If you read this entire thing, I'll send you a cookie because you deserve it. Oh -- and one more thing? 

Ooooh, look at me, I'm so wise!!


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## saucywench (Apr 10, 2006)

Carrie,

Thank you for so aptly putting into words what I was feeling but didn't quite know how to express. Sometimes, in trying to look at the big picture, I get this "data overflow" situation where my brain can't seem to process my thoughts into a cohesive point. I appreciate your efforts (and those of others) for "filling in" that way when I can't.

Cindy


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## Carrie (Apr 10, 2006)

saucywench said:


> Carrie,
> 
> Thank you for so aptly putting into words what I was feeling but didn't quite know how to express. Sometimes, in trying to look at the big picture, I get this "data overflow" situation where my brain can't seem to process my thoughts into a cohesive point. I appreciate your efforts (and those of others) for "filling in" that way when I can't.
> 
> Cindy



Thank YOU, Cindy. And boy, do I know exactly what you're talking about with the "data overflow" situation. I depend on others here to express what I'm thinking quite frequently for the same reason. Just happened to have a particular moment of clarity this morning, so I seized it.


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## rainyday (Apr 10, 2006)

Here's what it means to me:

Although I am still grieving and not interested in dating again, as an SSBBW the threads I've been reading have made me feel like less. Less attractive. Less normal. Less worthy of respect. I generally feel pretty okay about myself, so this is a significant shift. 

I prefer to hear the truth about what men think, even if I don't like it. I dont think they should be hushed because letting them tell us is the only way we'll know what's on their minds. It's hard though to hear that someone would consider you fuckable but not worthy of a relationship. Especially when thats driven by a guys embarrassment at being with you. It's dehumanizing and it's not without consequences. If even the ones who claim to admire us feel we are unacceptable and embarrassing at our size, what hope is there for convincing the rest of the world? Time to throw in the towel.

I know not all men have such arbitrary weight limits, though not many seem to be posting. Somehow (against what now seem like huge odds) I managed to find and have a loving relationship with one. There were lots of small ways he accommodated my needs as an SSBBW. There were also lots of ways I accommodated him as well (like rides to work when he was running late). It was within the give and take of a relationship and none of them were any big deal.

As for SSBBWs being the unhealthy ones, I wont deny that at the upper levels of the SSBBW range there are more health concerns. But there are also plenty of SSBBWs who defy the stereotypes the men are buying into. How sad that a guy might overlook one of these women and settle instead for something else based on some silly adherence to numbers. There are no guarantees, and life rarely follows the patterns we expect. I am an SSBBW and my average-weight partner is the one who died, so you can picture the irony with which I read these threads. 

I can understand the desire to post and compare your thoughts about these things with other guys. There aren't many other venues in which to do that. But please choose your words in a way that doesnt wound. You can convey your preferences without disdain and disgust. Well still understand you just fine, and you wont leave us feeling like shit in the aftermath.


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## ataraxia (Apr 10, 2006)

I hate to repeat myself, but...

I think the movement is getting big. There are now more n00bs than old fogeys around here. The current phase is most likely one of two things:

Growing pains
A limitation of the "web board" concept (ever notice that people are much less easy to get along with online than off?)


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## pickleman357 (Apr 10, 2006)

Carrie said:


> I understand that as fat women, it's difficult to hear hurtful comments come out of a FA's mouth. I mean, they're supposed to be our allies, right? Our advocates, our heros, our knights in shining armor! Nope. They're just people. People who struggle with the repurcussions of loving fat women in a thin-centric world, and people who, despite their best intentions, will sometimes say hurtful things. Because here's the thing: unless you're a significantly fat person, you don't know what it's like to *be* a significantly fat person. You may be the most understanding, empathetic person in the world, but you still do not know what it's like to have lived your life as a fat person - so yes, you will probably sometimes say things that are unintentionally hurtful, or vexing to me, as a fat person.
> 
> And this is why places like Dimensions are so important. This is a venue for us in which to educate each other, to share experiences and ideas, to better understand the challenges of living as a fat person or a FA.


I think that's the biggest thing. At least for me it is. Its that you don't truely know what its like on the other side. A FA has no idea what its like to be a SSBBW, nor does a SSBBW really know what its like to be a FA.

This is why I totally agree with you Carrie, communication and the exchange of experience and ideas is probably the only to get over this barrier.
I'll give an example, _(Note: I like extreme examplse because they get the point across)_
So let's have an FA, and a SSBBW who weights 300lbs more then the FA.

The FA looks at the SSBBW and tries to imagine what it would be like to carry around an extra 300lbs
So he pictures a 300lbs backpack on his back
Then he pictures his spine collapsing.

Now the SSBBW is used to her body and it doesn't get in her way at all anymore. She's perfectly healthy.
Unfortunatly, the SSBBW doesn't know that the FA has this image in his head of his spine collapsing. So when the FA starts to worry about the SSBBW's health, she gets upset by him because she's perfectly healthy.


We need more comunication. Lots more. 


> That's about it, I guess. If you read this entire thing, I'll send you a cookie because you deserve it.


MMMMmmmm :eat2: 
So, my mailing address is.....
 



rainyday said:


> As for SSBBWs being the unhealthy ones, I wont deny that at the upper levels of the SSBBW range there are more health concerns. But there are also plenty of SSBBWs who defy the stereotypes the men are buying into. How sad that a guy might overlook one of these women and settle instead for something else based on some silly adherence to numbers. There are no guarantees, and life rarely follows the patterns we expect. *I am an SSBBW and my average-weight partner is the one who died, so you can picture the irony with which I read these threads. *



I grieve for you loss rainyday.  
but your story does break one of the stereotypes about health. 



ataraxia said:


> I hate to repeat myself, but...
> 
> I think the movement is getting big. There are now more n00bs than old fogeys around here. The current phase is most likely one of two things:
> Growing pains
> A limitation of the "web board" concept (ever notice that people are much less easy to get along with online than off?)


Lack of comunication again. The Web cannot bring across a person's tone of voice and body language, so we only really get 1/3 of the message. The abundant use of smilies might bring that up to half, but its still only half.

The only way for this community to get bigger, is to bring new people in (n00bs). Of course, they will have the same stereotypes in their head because of the mainstream, so there will be more people to educated about this.

Getting back to the first post


MisticalMisty said:


> Does this (the posts of the last few days over-run with generalzations and sterotypes) mean that we haven't made any real strides in the fat acceptance movement? What does it mean for the future of fat acceptance?


I say, yes we have, because there is an over-run of n00bs coming into the community that need to learn what its all about. Of course, we basically have to debugg the mainstream BS out of their head. It may not be pretty.... but.... I can't think of any other way to do it.... except take over the world.


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## Jane (Apr 10, 2006)

Women don't know what it's like to be men, men to be women. Tall people to short people...White to black...and yet we're all human, and there are basic truths we can find in each other.

Something that, if aimed about some aspect of yourself, would hurt, will probably hurt someone. 

If you don't EVER want to offend, don't post.

If, however, you can take the chance, and try to phrase things in as nice a way as possible, considering others feelings, most people will not take offense.

I could get very offensive in giving illustrations of things that would perturb many of the men here, but I CHOOSE not to.

And, yeah, time to time I will offend someone not meaning to (and some because they've pissed me off).


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## Boteroesque Babe (Apr 10, 2006)

rainyday said:


> I know not all men have such arbitrary weight limits, though not many seem to be posting.


I think this place is brimming with good, solid, grown-up FAs, Rainy. Men who'll nuzzle your neck in public and call anyone out, dare they disrespect you. Men who left their shame in high school. Perhaps the reason few have weighed in on the topic is the same reason I didn't look at the thread in question until someone reported a post. It's exactly the kind of high-fiving pile-on I try to avoid. Rhetoric and rudeness overpower thought and honesty. Progress is stunted by name-calling and blame. By now most all earnest discussion has been lost, and it has devolved into a cocks vs. hens thing. 

When I read what I did of it, I swear I could hear the rumble theme from _West Side Story_ in my head.

But please, _please_ don't assume the male participants represent the majority of men. Same goes for the women.


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## grey1969 (Apr 10, 2006)

rainyday said:


> Here's what it means to me:
> 
> Although I am still grieving and not interested in dating again, as an SSBBW the threads I've been reading have made me feel like less. Less attractive. Less normal. Less worthy of respect. I generally feel pretty okay about myself, so this is a significant shift.
> 
> ...



My hat is off to you. Your note was wonderfully written. As one of those whose comments yesterday helped set off the uproar, I wish to personally say I am sorry to you. I am also sorry to those other SSBBWs who I hurt with my statements. Had this been the type of response I initially received, rather than the bitter bashing, I likely would have taken it and not lashed back as I did. I will reiterate what I said in my first post. Although I worry about some of the issues that could potentially come with having a SSBBW girlfriend/wife (I was the one who brought the issues of health and fertility into the discussion), I like to think I would be willing/able to put those fears aside.

In my eyes, you are worthy. A lot us us FAs are just scared and weak. We wish we could be a good enough man to do well by someone like yourself, but we fear we are not. I hope this helps


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## pickleman357 (Apr 10, 2006)

grey1969 said:


> My hat is off to you. Your note was wonderfully written. As one of those whose comments yesterday helped set off the uproar, I wish to personally say I am sorry to you. I am also sorry to those other SSBBWs who I hurt with my statements. Had this been the type of response I initially received, rather than the bitter bashing, I likely would have taken it and not lashed back as I did. I will reiterate what I said in my first post. Although I worry about some of the issues that could potentially come with having a SSBBW girlfriend/wife (I was the one who brought the issues of health and fertility into the discussion), I like to think I would be willing/able to put those fears aside.
> 
> In my eyes, you are worthy. A lot us us FAs are just scared and weak. We wish we could be a good enough man to do well by someone like yourself, but we fear we are not. I hope this helps



Isn't this exactly what I said?
Lot o n00bs that don't know about the Size Acceptence community and we have to debug the mainstream BS out of em? _And it won't be pretty?_

This is a good sign, this means that the SA community is growing!!!
*
Welcome to the communty grey1969!  *


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## ataraxia (Apr 10, 2006)

Boteroesque Babe said:


> I think this place is brimming with good, solid, grown-up FAs, Rainy. Men who'll nuzzle your neck in public and call anyone out, dare they disrespect you. Men who left their shame in high school. Perhaps the reason few have weighed in on the topic is the same reason I didn't look at the thread in question until someone reported a post. It's exactly the kind of high-fiving pile-on I try to avoid. Rhetoric and rudeness overpower thought and honesty. Progress is stunted by name-calling and blame. By now most all earnest discussion has been lost, and it has devolved into a cocks vs. hens thing.
> 
> When I read what I did of it, I swear I could hear the rumble theme from _West Side Story_ in my head.
> 
> But please, _please_ don't assume the male participants represent the majority of men. Same goes for the women.


Let's not forget, that the old pros youre talking about, have been hanging around Dim for so long that a lot of them don't post much any more. They've said their piece so many times that it's not likely they say it again.

Slow and steady may win the race, but it sure makes the fans worried in the meantime.


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## ValentineBBW (Apr 10, 2006)

Carrie and Rainy: excellent posts.

Carrie: you ARE a wise woman, your post is exactly what I needed to hear, to remind myself that it was just a couple opinions, not that of every FA.


Rainy: Thank you for posting my EXACT feelings. It was if you were reading my mind and copying it down, but making it sound better and make sense.


hugs to you both


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## TraciJo67 (Apr 10, 2006)

rainyday said:


> Here's what it means to me:
> 
> Although I am still grieving and not interested in dating again, as an SSBBW the threads I've been reading have made me feel like less. Less attractive. Less normal. Less worthy of respect. I generally feel pretty okay about myself, so this is a significant shift.
> 
> ...



Rainyday, I can't imagine you ever letting someone make you feel 'less than'. You are stunningly gorgeous, you have an amazing sense of humor, and your empathy for others is pretty much off the chart. I know that's some pretty 'flowery' stuff, but the thing is, I absolutely 100% sincerely mean it. I adore you. 

Anyone who thinks you may be 'less than' in any way at all .... clearly, the deficiency is with him. And it ain't just in his pants


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## rainyday (Apr 10, 2006)

Thanks for the responses, folks. Wasn't looking for shoring (though I appreciate it!). I really just wanted to communicate how it FELT reading those threads because gosh it didn't feel good. (Thanks for letting me know I wasn't the only one, Valentine.) I hope those of you postulating that it's just a noob influx are right. BB, maybe threads like those need some kind of bat signal calling on the been-around-the-blockers to post for balance. 

Grey, I honestly can't remember who said what over there, but I appreciate you responding and acknowledging that you understand the impact of the words. That's what I was hoping for, and it's nice to know the message was heard.

Traci, I feel a hug coming on. You already know my reply is "ditto!"

Thanks for listening, folks.


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## ataraxia (Apr 10, 2006)

rainyday said:


> BB, maybe threads like those need some kind of bat signal calling on the been-around-the-blockers to post for balance.


Just make sure you don't accidentally send up the bat signal for the stork instead...


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## grey1969 (Apr 10, 2006)

pickleman357 said:


> Isn't this exactly what I said?
> Lot o n00bs that don't know about the Size Acceptence community and we have to debug the mainstream BS out of em? _And it won't be pretty?_
> 
> This is a good sign, this means that the SA community is growing!!!
> ...



Wrong!!! I was subscribing to Dimensions way back in 1992. SO I have been aware of Size Acceptance for a long time. I remember being a 19 year old kid (circa 1988), scared to death of my preference for fat women, and seeing Conrad Blickenstorfer and his wife (with some other NAAFA folks) on the Geraldo show. See for some of us, coming to terms with our FAness is a long journey. For me there have been some important milestones along the way like admitting to family and friends what kind of girl I want and having to deal with their incredulousness. Meeting and marrying my wife who weighed about 240 when we met, were wonderful steps forward for me. But I struggle with it still. My wife is not a fan of the size acceptance movement and so maybe she has always kept me with one foot in the "Mainstream". She has lost weight due to "health concerns" and I mourn the loss of some of her fat. 

This thing is difficult and the women who say the FAs just need to grow some balls and get over themselves just make me sad. They want us to be understanding for them but it should be a two way street and it appears at least from the last couple days it is not. Vince is right on the money with that one. That guy seems to be getting an undeserved bad rap around this place. Sure he says things that are not PC and he goes against the grain, but he seemed relatively intelligent in his analysis of the situation. This should be a place for genuine discourse but it seems there are some insecure people on here that you need to tiptoe around like the proverbial minefield. On the other hand some of the women seem to have their heads together enough to be able to have a meaningful discussion. 

Anyway thanks for the welcome but I didn't really appreciate the comment about "debug the mainstream BS out of em'". That was condescending and really uncool. But I appreciate the good intentions.


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## rainyday (Apr 10, 2006)

ataraxia said:


> Just make sure you don't accidentally send up the bat signal for the stork instead...



Heh. I'm thinking one flashes frantically, and the other just sort of rhythmically pulses.


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## ataraxia (Apr 10, 2006)

grey1969 said:


> Vince is right on the money with that one. That guy seems to be getting an undeserved bad rap around this place. Sure he says things that are not PC and he goes against the grain, but he seemed relatively intelligent in his analysis of the situation.


I agree that Vince does frequently say intelligent things. However, I don't think "going against the grain" is how he got his bad reputation - he got it frequently _trying_ to piss people off and to instigate fights.

(Vince, don't bother to reply to me - I've had you on ignore forever now. I don't like having my chain yanked.)


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## pickleman357 (Apr 10, 2006)

grey1969 said:


> Anyway thanks for the welcome but I didn't really appreciate the comment about "debug the mainstream BS out of em'". That was condescending and really uncool. But I appreciate the good intentions.



Sorry dude, but.... you did say "she has always kept me with one foot in the "Mainstream". "

But dont' worry man, I don't judge unless I want to be judged myself the same way. And I had to be debugged as well. Misty helpped me with that. But the whole thing with Nature vs Nurture. If the way you were raised is opposite to your own nature, there's going to be complications. Very few FAs don't have to go through this on some level.

_(at least I think. I'm not 100% sure, I'm just guessing)_


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 10, 2006)

I really appreciate everyone's respone to this thread..I think last night I was just feeling at the end of my rope with trying to defend being a ssbww in a way. 

But I do appreciate everyone's input


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## ataraxia (Apr 10, 2006)

pickleman357 said:


> And I had to be debugged as well.




```
~ % gdb pickleman357
GNU gdb 6.4-debian
(gdb) core
No core file now.
(gdb) stop in FA_init
(gdb) r
Starting program: /dim/pickleman357
Program received signal SIGMNST, Mainstream sympathizing.
0x00002b94736b5802 in FA_eval () from pickleman357
(gdb) where
#0  0x00002b94736b5802 in FA_eval () from pickleman357
#1  0x0000000000402e11 in ?? ()
#2  0x0000000000000400 in ?? ()
#3  0x0000000000000001 in ?? ()
#4  0x00000000004015bf in ?? ()
#5  0x09691a7500000000 in ?? ()
#6  0x0000000000000003 in ?? ()
```

I sure hope somebody gets this joke, it was work to make up.


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## GWARrior (Apr 10, 2006)

well...

I think everyone should chill and smoke a blunt.

but thats just me


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## pickleman357 (Apr 10, 2006)

ataraxia said:


> ```
> ~ % gdb pickleman357
> GNU gdb 6.4-debian
> (gdb) core
> ...



I'm a programmer by trade so I think I get it... hehehh....

Maybe debug is the wrong word.... deprogram? educated? hmmm.... I only speak english... and yet my strongest language is C++..... :doh:


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## ataraxia (Apr 10, 2006)

pickleman357 said:


> I'm a programmer by trade so I think I get it... hehehh....
> 
> Maybe debug is the wrong word.... deprogram? educated? hmmm.... I only speak english... and yet my strongest language is C++..... :doh:


It's kinda like "refactor", but not quite. "Deprogram" isn't bad, either.


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## grey1969 (Apr 10, 2006)

GWARrior said:


> well...
> 
> I think everyone should chill and smoke a blunt.
> 
> but thats just me



Hey you are a great asset to this board! Keep up the attempts to lighten things up. I for one certainly appreciate it. I didn't get a chance to respond to your message about your planned move to Indiana, because all the fur began to fly just as you posted. I had my hands full in a vain attempt to ward off a mob of angry women. Anyway, having lived in SouthEastern MASS for 2.5 years, I can say you are in for a bit of an ajustment period. But the people here in Indiana (Hoosiers) are a nice lot and real estate prices are down right reasonable.

I hope noone was offended by my post above. I just would like to be able to connect intellectually on this board and am afraid it is going to be difficult with some tender feelings out there and me being on the one hand blunt and opinionated and on the other hand a wounded heart myself. I agree with what Sandie Sabo said yesterday, it would be nice to be able to use this place as a big mutual therapy session.

Take care everyone


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## rainyday (Apr 10, 2006)

grey1969 said:


> In my eyes, you are worthy. A lot us us FAs are just scared and weak. We wish we could be a good enough man to do well by someone like yourself, but we fear we are not. I hope this helps



I thought I was done with this thread but this paragraph has been rattling around my brain since I read it and it's sitting funny, so I have to ask. . . .

It seems like you are saying, "Don't ask us to step outside our comfort zone; just accept that it's too hard for us, even if we wish it weren't." Shouldn't the goal be to overcome this fear? And if so, how could men be helped to find courage? My opinion is it can only come from maturity and a sturdiness within so it really is a matter of "growing some balls," but maybe I'm wrong. And while I'm at it, what does being "understanding" mean? (From your post above.)

I hope I've written this to come across as genuine questions (they are) rather than yelling.


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## pickleman357 (Apr 11, 2006)

rainyday said:


> It seems like you are saying, "Don't ask us to step outside our comfort zone; just accept that it's too hard for us, even if we wish it weren't." Shouldn't the goal be to overcome this fear? And if so, how could men be helped to find courage? My opinion is it can only come from maturity and a sturdiness within so it really is a matter of "growing some balls," but maybe I'm wrong. And while I'm at it, what does being "understanding" mean? (From your post above.)
> 
> I hope I've written this to come across as genuine questions (they are) rather than yelling.



Its kinda what I said before 


> I think that's the biggest thing. At least for me it is. Its that you don't truely know what its like on the other side. A FA has no idea what its like to be a SSBBW, nor does a SSBBW really know what its like to be a FA.



Each side has its own issues to work though. I'm not going to try and determind which side is tougher, because I've never been a SSBBW  

Your idea of reaching the goal of overcoming the fear of having a SSBBW at your side, could be summed up as "Growing some balls". This of course could take time. Could be a few minutes for some FA, years for others.

We're all fighting against the mainstream here, let's stick together and we'll get through this.


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## rainyday (Apr 11, 2006)

pickleman357 said:


> We're all fighting against the mainstream here, let's stick together and we'll get through this.



I agree. Nothing's accomplished fighting amongst ourselves. But guys can have to choose not to be mainstream. It's harder for us to blend into the crowd, so there's less choice involved.


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## Paul (Apr 11, 2006)

MysticalMisty,

I know this issue has gotten to you emotionally over the past couple of days. On the issue of size acceptance I have concluded that the situation is not as gloomy as we have experienced it here at Dimensions, althjough there is room for improvement.

I beleive I daily experience the results of size acceptance each and every day as I go about my daily business. What I may only be that todays society is caught up in poliktical correctness so that there is more acceptance of all types of people who differ from the majority. Handicapped washrooms are the norn just as it is less acceptible to make fun of how someone looks. Fat people still experience discrimination though each year this happens less and less as as society learns to be more accepting.

Why do I feel the situation for fat women is improving (though there is room for further improvement)? Just go to the mall (at least here in Winnipeg on a warm spring day). I have never seen so many fashionably dresses large women (teens to seniors) who were dresses in clothes very similarly to their thinner counterparts. The mall I speak of is close to a local high scholl so it is frequented by a large number of teenage girls. The larger girls appear to be accepted into any groupings of girls and are not excluded becuase they are fat. Acceptance appears to be occuring among the younger generation.

Now at Dimmensions: I am convinced that what we have experienced in some posts/threads in recent days is an anomoly(sp) and not the norm. On web boards there is a tendency for some people to participate with the intent just to stir up trouble. They are simply put mean persons. They troll the internet looking to stir up trouble. You can find them at any place on the internet were people are different (anorexic sites, "little people" sites, etc.) poking fun at the people there, stiring up trouble. To further feed their love of making fun of people who are different and to gain a fan base, the often set up web sites. Remeber the awful site Fat Chicks in Party Hats? These persons are trolls and and are not representative of the larger society and in particular the SA society.

Mystical have you experienced more discrimination lately in real life beyond the internet? I am not a fat woman so I do not know what discrimination a fat woman might ecounter on a daily basis. Just from my personal observations of the situation around me there appears to be far less discrimination as well as tolerance for discrimination of fat women. Several women (i.e. TallFatSue, Chicklets to name two who come to mind) have posted here over the years that there employees havet gone out of their way to accommodate their size, such as purchasing them a special chair that can hold their weight. 15-20 years ago the fat peron whould have had a much harder time with their employer who would have been less willing to accommodate their size at work. There is room for employment, but hey its better than it was and I believe it is improving daily by small leaps and bounds.

Enough. I see that size acceptance has had an impact. Society is less discriminating towards fat people. Is this improvement a result of SA or simply that society dictacts it is not politically correct to discriminate against fat persons or for that matter anything that makes people different. I am not sure but I believe it is a combination of the two.

I hope this topic has not got you down too much Mystical. I hope there hasn't been something that has happened recently to you in real life that has made this topic such an intense one for you.

What are your thoughts about my post Mystical?


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## grey1969 (Apr 11, 2006)

rainyday said:


> I thought I was done with this thread but this paragraph has been rattling around my brain since I read it and it's sitting funny, so I have to ask. . . .
> 
> It seems like you are saying, "Don't ask us to step outside our comfort zone; just accept that it's too hard for us, even if we wish it weren't." Shouldn't the goal be to overcome this fear? And if so, how could men be helped to find courage? My opinion is it can only come from maturity and a sturdiness within so it really is a matter of "growing some balls," but maybe I'm wrong. And while I'm at it, what does being "understanding" mean? (From your post above.)
> 
> I hope I've written this to come across as genuine questions (they are) rather than yelling.




I know how you feel. After yesterday, I thought I was going to be done with this board. But something is bringing me back. It is what I stated above: I want to have an intelligent discourse. I want to have that discourse with people that interest me. You seem to get it.

Anyway, your approach to quizzing me out is quite effective. Somehow you are able to ask the tough questions without seeming antagonistic. When it comes right down to it, a lot of FAs are probably like myself in being shy and timid not just in terms of our preference for large women and our resulting trepidation about pursuing that preference. We are maybe just reticent in general. Look at the types of careers we tend to go for (science, engineering, computers) - we are analytical and can analyze ourselves into a state of paralysis. So the BBW or SSBBW of our desires shouldn't necessarily expect us to always be a strong shoulder for her to lean on. Instead, she should sometimes be the shoulder for us to lean on. It goes both ways. Both sides hurt from our rejection by society. I know yours is worse. But we carry a "secret" for years. Then we still carry feelings of being strange or fetishists or wanting a woman to be fat and worrying our wishes would contribute to her having prematurely declining health. Our friends and family say they understand and accept it but do they really? My mother and everyone went on and on about how good my wife looked when she lost weight. I was the only one who felt differently and I had noone to share my pain with. I am alone in my disappointment. Acknowledgment of this type of issues that an FA deals with would be the type of thing I mean when I speak of mutual understanding.

As far as growing the balls to go for the SSBBW, I guess it is true one has to eventually show the maturity to just sieze the day. Hopefully the woman in that situation can also be able to support the FA in his spreading of his wings. It is like I wouldn't have probably had kids if my wife didn't prod me into it. But now I am glad I did. It is a big step and a leap of faith but once taken there is no looking back.

You are a credit to this community and you just might keep me around yet. Thanks :kiss2:


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## sweetnnekked (Apr 11, 2006)

GWARrior said:


> well...
> 
> I think everyone should chill and smoke a blunt.
> 
> but thats just me



If you've got one to share, I'd be happy to partake!


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## Fuzzy (Apr 11, 2006)

MisticalMisty said:


> I asked these questions of another poster in a different thread and I wanted to know the opinions of everyone else. The questions are:
> 
> Does this (the posts of the last few days over-run with generalzations and sterotypes) mean that we haven't made any real strides in the fat acceptance movement? What does it mean for the future of fat acceptance?



Basically it means, this board is fantastic!


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## rainyday (Apr 11, 2006)

Grey, if that post had appeared in the other thread I think things would have gone much, much better. There's much less arguing when we speak from our hearts about how we feel, and that was a very real, heartfelt post. 

Hopefully having an outlet and being able to share that kind of thing here will help keep your marriage together under what seem like frustrating circumstances, especially if you have kids involved. 

Thanks for answering and sharing. I understand more now.


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## ripley (Apr 11, 2006)

grey1969 said:


> You are a credit to this community and you just might keep me around yet. Thanks :kiss2:




Isn't she, though? I think she keeps a lot of us around. Rainy's like...Dimensions flypaper.


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## rainyday (Apr 11, 2006)

Rip, you ever walk past one of those things and get it stuck in your hair? Man, it's not pretty! 

[size=-2](Thanks, Toots)[/size]


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## Tina (Apr 11, 2006)

grey1969 said:


> When it comes right down to it, a lot of FAs are probably like myself in being shy and timid not just in terms of our preference for large women and our resulting trepidation about pursuing that preference. We are maybe just reticent in general. Look at the types of careers we tend to go for (science, engineering, computers) - we are analytical and can analyze ourselves into a state of paralysis. So the BBW or SSBBW of our desires shouldn't necessarily expect us to always be a strong shoulder for her to lean on. Instead, she should sometimes be the shoulder for us to lean on. It goes both ways. Both sides hurt from our rejection by society. I know yours is worse. But we carry a "secret" for years. Then we still carry feelings of being strange or fetishists or wanting a woman to be fat and worrying our wishes would contribute to her having prematurely declining health. Our friends and family say they understand and accept it but do they really? My mother and everyone went on and on about how good my wife looked when she lost weight. I was the only one who felt differently and I had noone to share my pain with. I am alone in my disappointment. Acknowledgment of this type of issues that an FA deals with would be the type of thing I mean when I speak of mutual understanding.



This is true. My ex went through hell at times with some of his co-workers, who used to make cracks about me and try to set him up with other women. It was hurtful to both of us. I'd bring him his lunch and the guys would be nice, but then behind my back they'd undermine me. It hurt my feelings, but for him it was tiring and he really got sick of their attitude and behavior and moved on. That was the worst place, but almost every place he worked there was some small version of that: "what do you see in her?" Society is so brainwashed by the Playboy mentality that unless one is an Admirer or the sort who is able to see beauty in many different physical types, it will have to be good enough to just get acceptance of you and yours, because they likely won't understand it.



> As far as growing the balls to go for the SSBBW, I guess it is true one has to eventually show the maturity to just sieze the day. Hopefully the woman in that situation can also be able to support the FA in his spreading of his wings. It is like I wouldn't have probably had kids if my wife didn't prod me into it. But now I am glad I did. It is a big step and a leap of faith but once taken there is no looking back.



Every guy I've had a longer term relationship with has had, at one time or another, anger at the (thankfully) seldom remarks or reactions. And my son gets the same way. They feel protective and don't want anyone to hurt or judge me. I have a much more philosophical reaction because I've had plenty of years to get used to it, and unless someone gets in my face with it I really couldn't care less. I feel it's none of my business what the random person feels about me or my looks; and their feelings do not affect my life nor my self-esteem. But I understand getting more upset over what someone says or does to someone I love than over what they might do or say to me, because I am very protective of those I love, too. So it can require looking at the situation philosophically.

Now, one thing I could not handle would be to be in a relationship with a guy who was ashamed of me. That I would not stand for. Do not act embarrassed to be with me. Do not pretend you do not know me in public. If you have a problem with this, you have some work to do on yourself before we could be together (or really, before you should be with any fat woman), because the world is judgemental enough without having a boyfriend who hasn't the backbone and confidence to want to be seen in public with me. I know of no woman who is willing to tolerate that -- it can be soul-destroying.

And rainy is a credit to every community she posts to. Remarkable woman, she.


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 11, 2006)

Paul said:


> MysticalMisty,
> 
> I know this issue has gotten to you emotionally over the past couple of days. On the issue of size acceptance I have concluded that the situation is not as gloomy as we have experienced it here at Dimensions, althjough there is room for improvement.
> 
> ...




Your post is fine and your right, the movement has come a long way..especially in the last 5 years or so.

As far as discrimination..I think most fat people experience some level every day. I tend to let it roll off my back unless it's so blatant it pisses me off..LOL


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## chunkeymonkey (Apr 11, 2006)

Ok I knew at some point I would rock the boat on this topic.Here it goes and I am sure It might flip and sink(Good thing I know how to swim)..I was overweight my whole entire life and I could diet and loose weight I just found it easier to blame it on a medical problem(I had a tumor on my thyroid gland along with nodules and thyroiditus and had the whole gland removed ) so I didnt have to have people look down on me. I liked food as comfort food. I never realized how much until I started to become happy with myself and I found myself loosing weight with out really trying. Now at the age of 17 I realized there were men who were FAs (I was kind of sheltered I know), but I thought to myself wow they love fat woman how wonderful I dont have to loose weight to find a man I can just have a FA. So here I am on the flip side a hypocrite because on one hand I say I am happy being who I am at the size I am currently at 220lbs,Then I say to myself well I did have health issues when I was 300lbs thats why I lost weight but I was really happy with myself at 300lbs to. As I start to call myself out more I realize I like to think I was happy I acted happy to friends I was a happy go lucky person but on the inside I think I had a secret hate for myself I held onto every little comment someone said about weight. I tried to convince people I was very much ok with being fat because I have never lived a life as a skinny person. When I lost a significant amount of weight 80lbs I began to see a different side to me. I was always a sexy classy dresser no matter what size I was but I found myself in a very different light as I got smaller. My husband is a die hard FA and he thought it was a personal attack when I lost weight ,he thought I did it to punish him and maybe some of it was who knows. I got a little freaked out when he said hey my fantasy woman is 500lbs I would cringe because sometimes I felt like I never measured up and I thought it was a little perverted like in a way of me being used while he was f***ing me and doing a 500lb woman in his head..after many years of thinking I was ok with this I realized I was never really ok with it. Now in no way am I against overweight people I just start to question if all of them are as happy as they claim . I guess it comes all down to psychological debate like if a guy is filthy rich and hot looking and he likes to spend lavishly would you say hey he is a big egotistical arrogant show off or is it possible that he is very insecure and is over compensating for something he doesnt want people to know about. The ironic part is I spent my whole life making fun of myself so it wouldnt hurt so much when someone else did. I used humor so much to mask how I felt. I had convinced myself I was so comfortable being who I am that I was in denial of so much going on around me. 
I had this huge argument with my husband over the whole Mandisa issue , now I tried to explain to him that even if you had all the FAs out there voting for her no matter what doesnt mean she would win. I understand the whole discrimination thing size race etc. but no one will ever know for sure why she was voted off and for what reason all we have is huge speculation. He was really hurt because I didnt quiet stand up for her the way he wanted me to, but I have a little more of a different opinion than him to. I tried to explain to him that in some cases that there are more followers than leaders everyone says one thing to your face and behind your back will say and believe something else.
I guess thats where I am the hypocrite on one hand I say I love FAs as long as they dont treat me like a piece of sexual meat because I would like to think they also like me for the inside more. But I realize when I get told by a FA you are hot just look at those curves and bodacious tatas I am very uncomfortable because its a sting towards me for my size I feel like an object. But if they were to say how beautiful I was and how smart and intelligent I was I am completely ok.(yeah as you can see I will have some hefty therapy bills to figure out what going on in my head).
Now I agree that a lot of the FAs have been brutally torn apart with the way they think about the woman I know I am married to one who is a freaking genius now when it comes to book smarts he knows his stuffwhen it comes to human emotion he seems to lack the bedside manner( however I have several guy friends who are FAs and they lack that as well not that this means anything) I dont think we should judge them so harshly on some of the comments but realize like with anything on the internet .Conversations are very much one dimensional because we dont feel exactly how people are trying to come across ( IE arrogant condescending honest sincerely etc) but I know I tend to react in the moment I read it and I fly with it..later I can read the same thing and think oh wow maybe I read that wrong and I just tore that poor shmuck a new hole.I will also attack more if i feel threatened in anyway.....dont mess with my cubs.I will attack people and stand up for what I believe in especially if I think I am right even if i am not right i like to still think i am.. (I AM ALSO A VERY SORE LOOSER). So I guess what I am saying is maybe everyone needs to put a little of the hurt feeling aside because I really dont think people want to intentionally hurt people here but understand more of what is really going on and figuring out things. 
Ok I am rambling now and I have to find my life jacket now. See you if I make it to shore.:doh:


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 11, 2006)

chunkeymonkey said:


> Now in no way am I against overweight people I just start to question if all of them are as happy as they claim . I guess it comes all down to psychological debate like if a guy is filthy rich and hot looking and he likes to spend lavishly would you say” hey he is a big egotistical arrogant show off” or is it possible that he is very insecure and is over compensating for something he doesn’t want people to know about. :


Does someone else want to take this one? I'm pooped.

Ok..in all seriousness..I'm sure that most people, regardless of weight, are not as happy as they claim. Hell, look at the headlines..the one that comes to mind is the preacher that was recently murdered by his wife in Tennessee..All anyone could talk about is how they were such a great couple and a loving family..BLAH BLAH BLAH. Well....there's a lot we can hide from the world.

I think it's really sad that you arent sure if you were happy with yourself at a heavier weight. There are days when I'm not happy with my whole self, but I never blame my weight. So, I'm not saying it can't happen and I'm sure many women who are just starting to accept their bodies struggle daily...I'm saying that it's not really fair compare her to a man who is rich and you claim may acts like an arrogant ass but is really insecure. There's a huge difference I think..I dunno..This is all just my opinion.

Now, the only thing I really find fault in your statement is this "Now in no way am I against overweight people." It's been my experience that a person who starts a sentence or statement with these words is about to say something that proves otherwise. 

As for your husband, you've mentioned him in your one other post and the fact that he fantasizes about a 500 lb woman when you guys have sex...my question..what keeps your there?


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## ThatFatGirl (Apr 11, 2006)

MisticalMisty said:


> Does someone else want to take this one? I'm pooped.



I think you did a fine job, Misty. Far better than I could've. I feel like I've been beating my head against a wall and repeating myself over and over. I'm done. I began posts several times yesterday and finally decided to heed my mother's advice that if you can't say something nice, then say nothing at all.

I do think we need to give a shout out to the real FAs.. the ones BB described in an earlier post. The guys who know who they are, they know who they like, and they don't need their mother, friends, or society's approval one way or the other. None of them were apologizing and making excuses on these boards yesterday. They didn't refer to the bbw women of this board as "You people" - a phrase which always makes my skin crawl. They may have preferences for reasons across the board about the women they're attracted to, but they would never suggest a conversation asking about weight limits, rather they would post a question asking other FAs how they deal with some of the special needs of their bbw partners. Big difference there.

So my hat's off to the TRUE FAs. You guys rock and we appreciate you.

p.s. - I will celebrate you this weekend with my boyfriend - a true FA - and in your honor will give him a couple of wild nights he will never forget.


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## ripley (Apr 11, 2006)

rainyday said:


> Rip, you ever walk past one of those things and get it stuck in your hair? Man, it's not pretty!
> 
> [size=-2](Thanks, Toots)[/size]




Yep. Ever try to get one off a collie?

You're welcome.


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## grey1969 (Apr 11, 2006)

ThatFatGirl said:


> I think you did a fine job, Misty. Far better than I could've. I feel like I've been beating my head against a wall and repeating myself over and over. I'm done. I began posts several times yesterday and finally decided to heed my mother's advice that if you can't say something nice, then say nothing at all.
> 
> I do think we need to give a shout out to the real FAs.. the ones BB described in an earlier post. The guys who know who they are, they know who they like, and they don't need their mother, friends, or society's approval one way or the other. None of them were apologizing and making excuses on these boards yesterday. They didn't refer to the bbw women of this board as "You people" - a phrase which always makes my skin crawl. They may have preferences for reasons across the board about the women they're attracted to, but they would never suggest a conversation asking about weight limits, rather they would post a question asking other FAs how they deal with some of the special needs of their bbw partners. Big difference there.
> 
> ...



Well let's get the Moose out on the Table here folks! Guess who is ChunkyMonkey's husband. That's right, it's me. Dimensions Enemy Number One. The new official whipping boy of the board. Well as I tried to say previously I came to this board with a genuine intention to interact intelligently with people. So my first foray into this board was an utter disaster in which I put my foot in my mouth. I made statements that I thought were intended to balance the whole discussion about what could contribute to a guy's hesitation to be with a SSBBW. That it wasn't just about embarrassment. Maybe there were other considerations. It turns out I actually poured gasoline on the fire. 

I made the staement that "You people are too oversensitive." I made the statement that "You people are a bunch of losers with a capital L." Again gasoline on the fire. I APOLOGIZED. Some people thought my apology was sincere. You are still intent on spewing venom.

The question is do you, ThatFatGirl, want to hold something like that against a person forever? Do you believe in second chances? Do you believe in hearing the other side of the story?

I wish I was one of the TRUE FAs that you wax on poetically about. But , alas,I am a flawed human. I came to this board looking for moral support. Instead I got pulled into an argument where in the heat of frustration, I traded insults and then later apologized for my transgressions, but I never received any apologies in return. It is like Vince said, the default position is that the women never say or do anything wrong. 

*The bigger question for the people of this board is:* do you want to allow into your board someone like myself who is willing to honestly discuss difficult issues? Or are you only interested in having yes-men (perhaps what some of you think of as the TRUE FAs) around that only tell you what they think you want to hear? Do you want to help an FA develop as a person? Or do you simply want to shun him because he is not already the person you think he should be? If the latter, then perhaps you are really no more tolerant than the people of "mainstream" society that you say have shunned you repeatedly.

As you can tell from my wife's post above it hasn't been easy for me as an FA living with a fat wife who doesn't even know enough not to use the word "overweight". Now that is a word that I find very offensive. So you see, you can try to be a good FA, but maybe your wife is just not helping much with it and the whole thing goes in the crapper.  

And Misty, when I make love to my wife and dream of being with a 500 pound girl - I fantasize about my wife being 500 pounds not some other girl. Maybe that is wrong, but as I said I am just a flawed human. She gained weight when we got together, leveled out in the upper 200s, and has now lost weight. Do I wish she had kept on gaining. Sure. But her and I both thought of potential ramifications. Do I wish she has stayed at 300 pounds instead of losing? Yes, now our marriage is strained and her weight loss has been a big part of that.

I apologize again for having come on your board and stirring up the pot. (THis is starting to feel like I am in the Twilight Zone or having some weird dream). But maybe we at least made some of you all think a little bit. I might be back I might not. Most of you probably couldn't care less. I wish you all well


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 11, 2006)

grey1969 said:


> And Misty, when I make love to my wife and dream of being with a 500 pound girl - I fantasize about my wife being 500 pounds not some other girl. Maybe that is wrong, but as I said I am just a flawed human. She gained weight when we got together, leveled out in the upper 200s, and has now lost weight. Do I wish she had kept on gaining. Sure. But her and I both thought of potential ramifications. Do I wish she has stayed at 300 pounds instead of losing? Yes, now our marriage is strained and her weight loss has been a big part of that.
> 
> I apologize again for having come on your board and stirring up the pot. (THis is starting to feel like I am in the Twilight Zone or having some weird dream). But maybe we at least made some of you all think a little bit. I might be back I might not. Most of you probably couldn't care less. I wish you all well



Honestly..there are 2 reasons why I asked First is because she's made a total of 2 posts and said that in both posts..not mentioning the fact that you think of her being 500 lbs. What goes on in your house is your business..but when people bring it up in an open forum...it's gonna be discussed. Secondly, if she is so unhappy and the sex is awful and she feels like you aren't attracted anymore..I just wondered why she would stay where she didn't feel wanted or desired.

Now, staying or leaving is of course up to you, but if you're gonna leave over something like this, then maybe this isn't the right place for you...I sincerely hope you find a place where you can be happy.


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## fatlane (Apr 11, 2006)

Dude... drama... heavy... as far as the acceptance thing goes, I'm trying to do my part. I think I hit on something recently that might just have the key. If not for everyone else, at least for me.


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## Vince (Apr 12, 2006)

I have to say that Grey is innocent of all charges and no apology is necessary. Sally Smith was right, the admirers need their own place.


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 12, 2006)

chunkeymonkey said:


> .....I guess that’s where I am the hypocrite on one hand I say I love FA’s as long as they don’t treat me like a piece of sexual meat because I would like to think they also like me for the inside more. But I realize when I get told by a FA you are hot just look at those curves and bodacious tata’s I am very uncomfortable because it’s a sting towards me for my size I feel like an object.



I'm still trying to figure out exactly what you're getting at in your post. It's late and I'm a bit slow  , but what you seem to be carrying on about is the complaint of almose EVERY woman I know. EVERYBODY does this. Nobody wants to be seen as an object or a piece of meat but you know, guys can be such cavemen at times - even non FA's. 

There are lots of people who try to make the best of the hand they've been dealt in life but if they had the chance to change they would in a heartbeat. Taller, richer, healthier, leggier, blonder, more talented, etc. Not everybody looks like Cindy Crawford. Some people look like Janet Reno. Men hold the door for Cindy but let it slam in Janet's face without a backward glance. Would that the grass in our lawn can be as green as your neighbor's.

I'm not discounting how you feel or trying to say you're wrong. What I am trying to say I guess is that how you feel is only how YOU feel. There may be some other pretenders out there who are toeing the line simply because they don't have any other choice and they want to fit in here, but there are some of us here who truly are happy. We all have our, "I wish my hair had more body/I wish I had smoother skin/smaller arms," kinda grievances like any other but for the most part we are happy, it's not a hoax. Seriously.


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## grey1969 (Apr 13, 2006)

MisticalMisty said:


> Honestly..there are 2 reasons why I asked First is because she's made a total of 2 posts and said that in both posts..not mentioning the fact that you think of her being 500 lbs. What goes on in your house is your business..but when people bring it up in an open forum...it's gonna be discussed. Secondly, if she is so unhappy and the sex is awful and she feels like you aren't attracted anymore..I just wondered why she would stay where she didn't feel wanted or desired.
> 
> Now, staying or leaving is of course up to you, but if you're gonna leave over something like this, then maybe this isn't the right place for you...I sincerely hope you find a place where you can be happy.



Misty,

I'm still not sure if this is the right place for me. But it still interests me to try to interact here. Bottome line, the best (only ?) way to grow beyond objectifying some group (in this case BBWs/SSBBWs) is to get to know them better as people. Your statement about staying or leaving being up to me is intended as a lukewarm invitation to stay, i suppose. After the animosity that has occured between me and yourself and others on here, I suppose that is the best I should expect at this point.

Frankly, I am a bit dissappointed that my post did not generate more response. You are certainly a game individual. I appreciate your willingness to keep up the discussion/debate. 

Getting back to my wife's and my dirty laundry (I hope noone is offended by me turning this into some quasi- group marriage therapy session). Your statement that "if she is so unhappy and the sex is awful and she feels like you aren't attracted anymore..I just wondered why she would stay where she didn't feel wanted or desired." is in need of a response. It turns out that our sex life is actually reasonably good and always has been. My wife has always been quite interested in regular sex, often more so than I which is an uncommon thing. I assume this to mean her ability to experience pleasure from sex is not a problem. I currently have no problem achieving sexual arousal from my wife, despite the fact she isn't as fat as I would like her to be. 

Now back to the delicate issue of fantasizing during the sex act. I am not sure that this is a bad thing. In an ideal world people would be so turned on by their sex partner that such a thing would be totally unnecessary. But we live in the real world, not an ideal world. I found an article (see link below) that deals with this issue. It seems there is consensus amongst sex therapists that it is probably mostly a good thing.

http://marriage.about.com/od/sex/i/fantasies.htm

Although my wife won't admit to it, I imagine she likely fantasizes about people/things other than me while we are having sex. I am willing to accept that, because it is just a human nature thing. 

Regards,

Wayne (aka Grey1969)


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## Jon Blaze (Apr 13, 2006)

Well... I wouldn't say that. I just think the standards of being an FA or size acceptant (or whatever your preference maybe) don't have "commandments" so to speak, which means there are so many people with so many personalities, and preferences that are to the teeth. I guess we all have our indivdual views on how these people are suppose to be. 

Maybe what we expect isn't being fufilled.... but I could just be ranting again...


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## Jes (Apr 13, 2006)

fatlane said:


> I think I hit on something recently that might just have the key. If not for everyone else, at least for me.


Was it your giant weenis avatar? No...?


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## pickleman357 (Apr 14, 2006)

@ Chunkeymonkey's big post

Being fat does not make you unhealthy. Look at MisticalMisty. SSBBW, and perfectly healthy. 

You have to find out what person you are and what you want to be. If you were happier at 300lbs, be 300lbs. If you're happier at 220, then be 220.

@grey1969

RE: do we want you here?

yes, The last thing we want to do is make this SA community some sort of exclusive club. We have to get people to understand this community. If that takes a lot of head aches and pissed-off moments, then that's what it takes! Throwing away potential True FAs because they have a few problems would be wrong in every sense of the word!



RE: Fantasies

Well, men are cursed to be very visual when it comes to sex. The difference between a good guy and jerk is whether they put a woman's personality first, or their body.

grey has put her personality first, meaning his morals are at least in the right order. He's still with her and I assume makes her happy to stick around even though they both know he fantizises about her being bigger.

I think, at least once, a guy has looked at his woman and wondered about what she would look like if she was taller/shorter/lighter/heavier/blonde/brunette/etc. I think that's just a genetic quirk in guys.

Before I started dating her, my g/f had physical qualities that weren't my ideal of what I thought I wanted. however, I loved her more then her body. So I sucked it up and kept with it. Now I accept her for who she is no matter what, cause I realize that we're all going to get old and wrinkly anyhow, its who you are that will last till the day you die.

My advice is find out what she is comfortable with, being 220, or 500 or whatever, and then enjoy that. Every weight has its own quirks and interesting things to play with.
Eg. A 220lbs woman can sit on your lap for a lot longer then a 500lbs woman can.... unless of course you don't need blood to your legs or anything crazy like that!


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## grey1969 (Apr 14, 2006)

pickleman357 said:


> @ Chunkeymonkey's big post
> 
> Being fat does not make you unhealthy. Look at MisticalMisty. SSBBW, and perfectly healthy.
> 
> ...



Your comments are much appreciated on this end.  Tolerance of all those that have a stake in the size acceptance movement and try to interact in a respectful manner is essential to fulfilling the intended purpose of this board. This is what Conrad (God love him) reiterated in his recent statement, so lets all heed his wisdom. thanks


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