# Secret Snowflake: A Poll



## MisticalMisty (Nov 10, 2009)

It seems that there is some debate as to whether or not Secret Snowflake should occur this year.

For those newbies, three years ago I started a card exchange at Christmas that was modeled after Jes' Cupid exchange in February.

You can be a sender or a receiver. This is how it has worked in the past. The sender PMs me a list of people they want to send a card to from the boards.

I would pm those people, collect their addresses and let the sender know they could mail their cards to me. I was the only person who had the addresses and I personally hand addressed over 500 cards the first year, 800 cards the 2nd and 1,000 cards last year.

Unfortunately, last year we had some problems with the mail and with cards not arriving to me. I will also admit that there was some book keeping errors on my part. Cards were lost in the mail, arrived past the due date and were misplaced, or I had put the wrong address on them and feelings were left hurt.

Other than that, it's been a successful program that brings cheer to those who need it the most.

You'll never know the amount of messages I've received that said that Secret Snowflake was the only reason they made it through the holidays or that it really made their day to find a card in their mailbox.

I originally started it because I hated the holidays. I was always alone for them and I wanted a way to give back to this community that is so near and dear to my heart. I've never had malicious intent. I've never purposely lost or misplaced cards. Last year was hard for me because I know how expensive it is to buy and send the cards. I apologized then and I'm apologizing again now.

So, after all of that. I just want to know if you would participate in Secret Snowflake if it was available this year. You can vote yes or no in the poll.

Thanks,
Misty


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## littlefairywren (Nov 10, 2009)

I like Secret Snowflake


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## Sugar (Nov 10, 2009)

I think that some of the concerns last year were alleviated when Donna took over. 

While I personally have no problem with you Misty...I think many who had issues may be reluctant to participate with you in charge again. Plus it didn't seem like anyone else got the chance to offer their services before you said you wanted it back.

As it was your idea in my mind it's fair that it stays your project, but it may have lower numbers due to the issues last year.


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## MisticalMisty (Nov 10, 2009)

Sugar said:


> I think that some of the concerns last year were alleviated when Donna took over.
> 
> While I personally have no problem with you Misty...I think many who had issues may be reluctant to participate with you in charge again. Plus it didn't seem like anyone else got the chance to offer their services before you said you wanted it back.
> 
> As it was your idea in my mind it's fair that it stays your project, but it may have lower numbers due to the issues last year.



I completely understand that and I'm well aware that my involvement may cause some people not to participate. I just hope that people understand that it wasn't completely my fault and that there will be some different policies in place to make sure that everyone receives their cards in a timely manner.

Of course I can't control the postal services, but I will do my best to ensure that we don't have a repeat from any error of mine.


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## Gingembre (Nov 10, 2009)

Sounds like such a lot of work on your part, Misty, but I would like to participate if you were to do it again


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## Donna (Nov 10, 2009)

Sugar said:


> I think that some of the concerns last year were alleviated when Donna took over.
> 
> While I personally have no problem with you Misty...I think many who had issues may be reluctant to participate with you in charge again. Plus it didn't seem like anyone else got the chance to offer their services before you said you wanted it back.
> 
> As it was your idea in my mind it's fair that it stays your project, but it may have lower numbers due to the issues last year.



What if there were multiple Snowflakes handling things, in a sort of committee? That might alleviate the issues some folks might have (they could chose the Snowflake they wish to contact,) would give more people the opportunity to participate in the sending/mailing, and would lighten the load on everyone involved. If coordinated properly, that might be the answer. 

I'm long on ideas folks...unfortunately I am short on time.


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## MisticalMisty (Nov 10, 2009)

Donna said:


> What if there were multiple Snowflakes handling things, in a sort of committee? That might alleviate the issues some folks might have (they could chose the Snowflake they wish to contact,) would give more people the opportunity to participate in the sending/mailing, and would lighten the load on everyone involved. If coordinated properly, that might be the answer.
> 
> I'm long on ideas folks...unfortunately I am short on time.



We could do a regional thing of there were others that wanted to handle cards.


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## Still a Skye fan (Nov 10, 2009)

If you decide to do it, count me in.

Dennis


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## mel (Nov 10, 2009)

I think it is a great idea..I would do it.


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## MisticalMisty (Nov 12, 2009)

Thanks to everyone who has commented or taken time to vote. Your input is really appreciated.


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## Sandie S-R (Nov 13, 2009)

Misty,

Aren't you getting married and starting a new job, and moving right now? 

With all that going on, how can you assure everyone that the same problems won't happen again this year that happened last year.


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## D_A_Bunny (Nov 13, 2009)

With Misty's permission, I would like to throw my hat into the ring. I offered to assist her last year and she has mentioned that she might like me to assist or take over this year since Donna has stated that she is unable to do it.

I can state for the record that I am a stay-at-home princess with lots of time to do what I choose. I do not have time consuming or elaborate plans for the holidays to take up a lot of my time.

If I were to become the person to do secret snowflake I can tell you that I would be my usual Virgo organized self, and keep track of the cards coming in and going out. 

I would also expect the same respect and consideration that would be given to anyone providing a voluntary service to the very best of their ability.

I do believe that I can satisfactorily complete this task or I would not offer my services. I hope that this situation can be rectified soon so that we can start making plans for the Secret Snowflake.


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## JerseyGirl07093 (Nov 13, 2009)

I know that Donna was going to have a whole spread sheet system to keep track of cards that were mailed to her and who she mailed them out to. Maybe if the person, whoever it is, that does the Secret Snowflake this year uses a system like that it would make more people inclined to participate because they would feel better about making sure the cards get to where they are meant to go. The Secret Snowflake is a big undertaking. I give props to anyone who takes on the job. :bow:


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## rainyday (Nov 13, 2009)

D_A_Bunny said:


> With Misty's permission, I would like to throw my hat into the ring. I offered to assist her last year and she has mentioned that she might like me to assist or take over this year since Donna has stated that she is unable to do it.



Bunny, I think you'd be a great addition to the team. 

Thanks to all those of you offering to do this.


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## D_A_Bunny (Nov 13, 2009)

To clarify - I have offered to take over the Secret Snowflake and am waiting for a response. This might take a few days since the message was just sent out.

If I were to take over Secret Snowflake, I do have a plan to keep track.

My plan is to make an address card for each sender and each reciever. When the package is recieved I will assign a four digit number to that sender. That persons cards will be checked in on their card. When the card is addressed, I will write the senders four digit number on the back.

Part of the instructions made to the participants will be to keep track of the four digit number and write it on the card when it is opened. That way if the person actually does make it a secret, there will be some knowledge of who the person is.

If a question arises to if a card was received or sent, I can keep track by each recipient telling me the four digit numbers of the cards they have recieved.

I hope that I am explaining this well because it makes perfect sense to me.

So basically, each sender gets a number and on their card is the list of whom they sent to.
Each recipient has a card with a list of the senders. Each person keeps track of the cards they recieved and if so inclined, let's me know the four digit numbers on the cards recieved. I can then tell each sender who recieved their cards.

Of course, anyone who signs their cards with their real names inside will probably know when their card is recieved because the recipient will PM a thank you. (hint hint)

I have already cleared out my PM box in preparation and will be purchashing the index cards needed.


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## D_A_Bunny (Nov 13, 2009)

rainyday said:


> Bunny, I think you'd be a great addition to the team.
> 
> Thanks to all those of you offering to do this.



Thanks Rainy! I have every confidence that I can do this or I would not have offered. I am quite organized and believe that this can run smoothly.


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## SparklingBBW (Nov 13, 2009)

I second the nomination for Bunny. She'd be great for the job! 

.


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## Sugar (Nov 13, 2009)

SparklingBBW said:


> I second the nomination for Bunny. She'd be great for the job!
> 
> .



I think Bunny would do a great job as well.


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## D_A_Bunny (Nov 13, 2009)

SparklingBBW said:


> I second the nomination for Bunny. She'd be great for the job!
> 
> .





Sugar said:


> I think Bunny would do a great job as well.



Thank you ladies! I appreciate your support.


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## Donna (Nov 13, 2009)

WHOMEVER is picked/steps up/voted on....whomever runs this SS thing, is more than welcome to the spreadsheets I created. I have already emailed them to Misty, but a simple PM to me with an email address will make those spreadsheets appear magically in your email box.


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## MisticalMisty (Nov 14, 2009)

Sandie S-R said:


> Misty,
> 
> Aren't you getting married and starting a new job, and moving right now?
> 
> With all that going on, how can you assure everyone that the same problems won't happen again this year that happened last year.



Sandie, what's happening in my life right now is none of your damn business or concern.

As I stated in my pm to you when you said I needed permission, I started this 4 years ago and it's always been a VOLUNTARY program. If people choose not to participate, that's their choice.

However, as you notice from the poll and the comments, people DO want to participate. I'll have to time. I've always had the time. I think I've been MORE than generous with my time.

The problems last year were many. Some caused by myself, some by the postal service and some by people who sent their cards past the deadline and I wasn't home to receive them.

Even if someone else takes over, they can NOT guarantee that there won't be issues. No one can guarantee that.

So, with that being said, no, I can't promise there won't be issues...but no one else can either.

If you don't want to participate....don't. You don't need to piss on anyone else's party.


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## MisticalMisty (Nov 14, 2009)

I think this job is too big for one person. So, I've sent a message suggesting that Bunny and I both do it.

More details will come once she and I work out the kinks. Hopefully we'll have an announcement by next week!


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## Sugar (Nov 14, 2009)

MisticalMisty said:


> I think this job is too big for one person. So, I've sent a message suggesting that Bunny and I both do it.
> 
> More details will come once she and I work out the kinks. Hopefully we'll have an announcement by next week!



I think doing it together is a good idea. 

I'm sorry if anything I said upset you Misty. I know a lot of people participate and this is their only card exchange...it makes a big difference in their holidays which can be lonely for some.

I think it's awesome that you started it and together you guys are going to keep it going.


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## Inhibited (Nov 14, 2009)

If it is open to OS members i would participate....


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## D_A_Bunny (Nov 14, 2009)

Inhibited said:


> If it is open to OS members i would participate....



I am not sure what OS means, but Secret Snowflake is open to ALL members of the Dimensions community.


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## Inhibited (Nov 14, 2009)

D_A_Bunny said:


> I am not sure what OS means, but Secret Snowflake is open to ALL members of the Dimensions community.



lol sorry.... Overseas = OS


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## D_A_Bunny (Nov 14, 2009)

Inhibited said:


> lol sorry.... Overseas = OS



Yes, it is open to overseas members. You will be required to determine the correct postage for the cards you send and apply it to the envelope. Then when you put them into a bigger envelope to send to the person doing the mailing, you will need to make sure you have enough postage to get the package to the US.

For example, if you are in Australia, and the cards you are sending are to people in the US, you would only need to put US postage stamp on the card. However, if you wanted to send a card to the UK, then you would need to place postage from the US to the UK. 

Do they sell American stamps in your country? If not, and all your cards were being sent to US folks only, I am sure we can work something out, like you send funds for the postage and we can apply the stamps for you from here. 

Once we get this thing rolling, send me a PM and we will figure out some details for you.


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## Sandie S-R (Nov 14, 2009)

MisticalMisty said:


> Sandie, what's happening in my life right now is none of your damn business or concern.
> 
> As I stated in my pm to you when you said I needed permission, I started this 4 years ago and it's always been a VOLUNTARY program. If people choose not to participate, that's their choice.
> 
> ...




Misty, there is no need to be snippy and rude. I asked a simple question, that had you answered in a civil manner, would have gone a long way to reinstate people's confidence in your abilities to handle this card exchange. 

And, yes I think what is going on in your personal life right now is pertinent to the topic at hand. Last year you blamed alot of the card delays on issues that were going on in your personal life. And, you have stated here on the boards for everyone to see that you are getting married, starting a new job, and moving. Personally, getting married, starting a new job and moving are 3 of the most stressful things anyone can do in life. And that you want to take on this card exchange in the middle of this, I personally think is a bad idea. 

I am not opposed to the card exchange in general, I am just opposed to you handling it. I have heard from a lot people who will not post in this thread, that they will not participate if you are involved. They were very upset over your handling of the card exchange last year. There may have been people who received their cards, but a significant number of people did not. I know of one person in particular who purchased about 25 special cards to send out to people, put a lot of thought into the cards they sent. The person got them to you in time. And out of those cards only 2 or 3 actually made it to the people. I was one of those people that actually received their card, although it was the end of February (with a post mark of February 19th). 

So, Misty, without rehashing this, I think that there are enough issues here, that you should hand this Secret Snowflake over to Christine DABunny as she offered. She seems very organized, dedicated to the task, and has the time to handle the project with no outside issues or influences to interfere. You could certainly advise her if she has any questions, but I think Christine would be the best choice to handle the Secret Snowflake at this point, and would instill the most confidence in the project being carried out.

As moderator here, I just want to see this handled well with no hard feelings or people being angry (like last year), and I think the other Moderators would agree with me on this.


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## MisticalMisty (Nov 14, 2009)

Sugar said:


> I think doing it together is a good idea.
> 
> I'm sorry if anything I said upset you Misty. I know a lot of people participate and this is their only card exchange...it makes a big difference in their holidays which can be lonely for some.
> 
> I think it's awesome that you started it and together you guys are going to keep it going.



You haven't said anything at all. I realize that last year was a cluster fuck...but we had 2 really great years before then and now with the addition of Bunny helping, I think this year will be the best.

Thanks


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## MisticalMisty (Nov 14, 2009)

D_A_Bunny said:


> Yes, it is open to overseas members. You will be required to determine the correct postage for the cards you send and apply it to the envelope. Then when you put them into a bigger envelope to send to the person doing the mailing, you will need to make sure you have enough postage to get the package to the US.
> 
> For example, if you are in Australia, and the cards you are sending are to people in the US, you would only need to put US postage stamp on the card. However, if you wanted to send a card to the UK, then you would need to place postage from the US to the UK.
> 
> ...




Actually, you have to have Paypal in order to send cards from overseas to the US. The main reason is the postage is completely different. What we do is calculate the postage, you paypal the money and in the past, I've purchased the stamps. 

We'll have to work out how that will work this year!


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## MisticalMisty (Nov 14, 2009)

Sandie S-R said:


> Misty, there is no need to be snippy and rude. I asked a simple question, that had you answered in a civil manner, would have gone a long way to reinstate people's confidence in your abilities to handle this card exchange.
> 
> And, yes I think what is going on in your personal life right now is pertinent to the topic at hand. Last year you blamed alot of the card delays on issues that were going on in your personal life. And, you have stated here on the boards for everyone to see that you are getting married, starting a new job, and moving. Personally, getting married, starting a new job and moving are 3 of the most stressful things anyone can do in life. And that you want to take on this card exchange in the middle of this, I personally think is a bad idea.
> 
> ...



I am not handing it over. We are working it out on how we can both handle it. Over 1,000 cards will be hard for just one person to handle...especially since she will have to hand address them as I have had to do so in the past.

I'm snippy with you because you've implied over and over again that I'm completely at fault for what happened last year and that's not the case. This year there will be stricter deadlines and if cards are not postmarked by a certain date, then they will be returned to sender. 

As far as my personal life...I'm moving Friday. I'm already halfway here and settled and we are not planning a wedding.

I've worked all of the other years as well, so that's not going to be an issue.

Plus, Rob has offered to help. We've got it handled.

If there are people who don't participate this year, well, I'm really sorry that they feel that they have to make that choice. 

Again, I've apologized for my part..but I'm not taking total blame. 

As far as the February cards..if I had received them on time, they would have went out on time. Since you have no idea, I don't see how you can comment on that with full certainty.

Anyways, Bunny and I will be working together the next few days to hash out details and then we will be posting one day next week.

I encourage people to participate because it's a great program, but again, I it's a project I started and I want to see it through.

Thanks for your suggestions though!

Misty


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## Ruby Ripples (Nov 14, 2009)

Hi there. I loved taking part in the Secret Snowflake programme in the past three years. Can I ask anyone that receives cards, PLEASE can you acknowledge to the person that sent you it, so they know. I spent a lot of money last year on lovely cards, sending the parcel to the US and in some cases having cards then sent BACK to the UK to members. I sent 38 or 39 cards and I received I think... eight acknowledgements. So I don't know if anyone else even got my cards, or just didnt think to mention. 

Thankyou so much to the six people that sent me a card! I acknowledged them all. *pats myself on the back*. 

I don't know if it would complicate matters more, but I would certainly be happy to do Secret Snowflake for those members in the UK sending cards to members in the UK. To save the cost of postage to the US first, then back to the UK. I understand if it's too complicated to work out though.


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## Sandie S-R (Nov 14, 2009)

MisticalMisty said:


> I am not handing it over. We are working it out on how we can both handle it. Over 1,000 cards will be hard for just one person to handle...especially since she will have to hand address them as I have had to do so in the past.
> 
> I'm snippy with you because you've implied over and over again that I'm completely at fault for what happened last year and that's not the case. This year there will be stricter deadlines and if cards are not postmarked by a certain date, then they will be returned to sender.
> 
> ...





Well, Misty here is the way I see it (as well as a lot of other people). 

You have had 36 people (here in the poll) say that they will participate in sending or receiving cards with the project as you have proposed (with you being involved). That is a drop in the bucket of people that are here at Dims, and quite frankly I think a lot of people are going to be left out because they will not participate with you involved in this.

As to whether Christine can handle this on her own? She and I have had some discussion about this and she assures me that she can. Her plan is well thought out, and I think most people here would feel more comfortable with her in charge and running this project, and therefore more will participate - which to me is the real issue here. 

So, if you care about the "spirit" of Secret Snowflake and having the most amount of people here at Dims being involved so they will all feel cared for at the holidays, then you clearly know the right thing to do would be to hand this project off to Christine completely. 

If you care about only sending out cards to 36 people and vindicating yourself from any responsibility from last years fiasco, then I guess you will continue on regardless of what anyone else thinks. 

The ball is in your court, and I hope you will do the right thing.


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## TraciJo67 (Nov 14, 2009)

Misty, I didn't participate as a sender last year (or ever) because I know that I wouldn't follow through. I'm lazy. It's hard enough for me to remember to send cards to family members only. To that end, I respect what you have done each year, as I can't even imagine how much work is involved in it. You volunteered. I don't know what went wrong last year ... I remember a discussion about it then, but not the particulars. The reason I'm saying anything at all right now is because I think you're getting some really harsh feedback here, and a lot of it seems undeserved. You started the program (which is a wonderful idea and as a recipient for several years, I can personally attest that it brings a smile to my face), got it up and running, and acknowledged that you've made some mistakes along the way (again, in this voluntary effort that you donate your time and energy to). Kudos for that. Sincerely 

IMO, anyone who chooses not to participate this year if you are involved in it has that right. I don't think it was right for Sandie to tell you that people (nameless, faceless ones at that) won't participate if you are involved. I don't see what purpose that serves, other than to hurt you. I hope that wasn't her intent. The intent seems unclear at best, to me.

I think you're making a wise decision to take DA Bunny on as a partner. As someone who struggles to send 20-25 cards per year, I can't even begin to imagine the scope and magnitude of a project like this. I wish you both well, thank you both for doing this, and ... thank you very much for the previous years, as well. I benefited from it without giving a thing back, and I know that many other people have as well.


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## ThatFatGirl (Nov 14, 2009)

I never even saw the poll until just now and I'm sure I'm not the only one. So I would not count 36 as any sort of final number of people interested in participating with Misty overseeing the exchange. If it was a vote on whether or not you have confidence in Misty handling things (with Bunny's help or not), I would vote yes. As to whether or not I am going to participate, I'm not sure but it has nothing to do with who is organizing things.

The poll does not say "Do you want to participate if Misty's running the show?" Sandie's reading a lot more into the results than what's actually there.


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## Sandie S-R (Nov 14, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Misty, I didn't participate as a sender last year (or ever) because I know that I wouldn't follow through. I'm lazy. It's hard enough for me to remember to send cards to family members only. To that end, I respect what you have done each year, as I can't even imagine how much work is involved in it. You volunteered. I don't know what went wrong last year ... I remember a discussion about it then, but not the particulars. The reason I'm saying anything at all right now is because I think you're getting some really harsh feedback here, and a lot of it seems undeserved. You started the program (which is a wonderful idea and as a recipient for several years, I can personally attest that it brings a smile to my face), got it up and running, and acknowledged that you've made some mistakes along the way (again, in this voluntary effort that you donate your time and energy to). Kudos for that. Sincerely
> 
> IMO, anyone who chooses not to participate this year if you are involved in it has that right. I don't think it was right for Sandie to tell you that people (nameless, faceless ones at that) won't participate if you are involved. I don't see what purpose that serves, other than to hurt you. I hope that wasn't her intent. The intent seems unclear at best, to me.
> 
> I think you're making a wise decision to take DA Bunny on as a partner. As someone who struggles to send 20-25 cards per year, I can't even begin to imagine the scope and magnitude of a project like this. I wish you both well, thank you both for doing this, and ... thank you very much for the previous years, as well. I benefited from it without giving a thing back, and I know that many other people have as well.




As a moderator and a long time member and participant here at Dimensions Traci, I have every right to to comment on this project. Keep in mind that as moderators we had to deal with all the complaints from all the people who's cards never made it to their destinations last year. And the numbers were in the hundreds. 

Since you admittedly have not participated with the card exchange here and were not involved in any of the problems (you also admittedly don't remember anything about what went on), I'd be curious why you thought your comments here were helpful, (other than providing you with an opportunity for a jab at me)?


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## Sandie S-R (Nov 14, 2009)

ThatFatGirl said:


> I never even saw the poll until just now and I'm sure I'm not the only one. So I would not count 36 as any sort of final number of people interested in participating with Misty overseeing the exchange. If it was a vote on whether or not you have confidence in Misty handling things (with Bunny's help or not), I would vote yes. As to whether or not I am going to participate, I'm not sure but it has nothing to do with who is organizing things.
> 
> The poll does not say "Do you want to participate if Misty's running the show?" Sandie's reading a lot more into the results than what's actually there.



Laura,

I am not "reading" anything into the poll. As a moderator here I am aware of a lot more surrounding this situation that any of you have any idea of. I have heard from people personally who have said they will not participate in this if Misty is involved. I did not get that information from the poll.


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## TraciJo67 (Nov 14, 2009)

Sandie S-R said:


> As a moderator and a long time member and participant here at Dimensions Traci, I have every right to to comment on this project. Keep in mind that as moderators we had to deal with all the complaints from all the people who's cards never made it to their destinations last year. And the numbers were in the hundreds.
> 
> Since you admittedly have not participated with the card exchange here and were not involved in any of the problems (you also admittedly don't remember anything about what went on), I'd be curious why you thought your comments here were helpful, (other than providing you with an opportunity for a jab at me)?



Sandie, if I wanted to take a jab at you, I think you know that I'd have been a lot more pointed. What I really wanted to convey was some support to Misty because I think she needs it. Had I been the recipient of what you've now several times directed to Misty, I'd feel very hurt and somewhat betrayed as well. I don't understand why this is such a big deal. She's acknowledged that she's made some mistakes, outlined a plan for addressing them so that they aren't made again this year, and agreed to take on a partner to manage the scope of the project. 

And sure, you have every right to comment. I have every right to disagree with the nature of your comments. They seem unnecessarily cruel to me. I am wondering why this whole thing couldn't have been handled less publicly, especially given the very pointed nature of your criticism.


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## TraciJo67 (Nov 14, 2009)

Sandie S-R said:


> Laura,
> 
> I am not "reading" anything into the poll. As a moderator here I am aware of a lot more surrounding this situation that any of you have any idea of. I have heard from people personally who have said they will not participate in this if Misty is involved. I did not get that information from the poll.



Sandie, if they don't have the guts to say anything to Misty, I don't think you should be dragging them out of the shadows and using them to make your point here.


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## Weeze (Nov 14, 2009)

So much for holiday spirit 

For the record, I would participate if my mother wouldn't be all A STRANGER HAS OUR ADDRESS!!!! GINAER;GOINERBINEAR;OIGNAER;GONIKDFBN;ADB;NKADBN

Note: I know misty's safe, that's just what good ol' mom's reaction would be


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## Sandie S-R (Nov 14, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Sandie, if I wanted to take a jab at you, I think you know that I'd have been a lot more pointed. What I really wanted to convey was some support to Misty because I think she needs it. Had I been the recipient of what you've now several times directed to Misty, I'd feel very hurt and somewhat betrayed as well. I don't understand why this is such a big deal. She's acknowledged that she's made some mistakes, outlined a plan for addressing them so that they aren't made again this year, and agreed to take on a partner to manage the scope of the project.
> 
> And sure, you have every right to comment. I have every right to disagree with the nature of your comments. I am wondering why this whole thing couldn't have been handled less publicly, especially given the very pointed nature of your criticism.



I tried to handle this privately with Misty. She is the one that refused to keep it private, and took the whole thing public with her poll. 

Please trust me that my intent is not to hurt Misty. My responsibility to Dimensions and the members here is to see that this is handled with integrity and in a manner that does not result in the major foul ups and losses that occurred last year. Many people spent a lot of money on cards and postage only to have no one receive their cards. It was very disappointing to the senders, and to the recipients who never knew that there were so many others that were thinking of them at the Holidays. 

I hope that you all understand that to me this is about the big picture here, not about one person's feelings.


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## Emma (Nov 14, 2009)

Ruby Ripples said:


> I don't know if it would complicate matters more, but I would certainly be happy to do Secret Snowflake for those members in the UK sending cards to members in the UK. To save the cost of postage to the US first, then back to the UK. I understand if it's too complicated to work out though.



I think thats a great idea. I was deliberating over offering to do that myself but I don't have the time.


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## Sugar (Nov 14, 2009)

Sandie S-R said:


> Laura,
> 
> I am not "reading" anything into the poll. As a moderator here I am aware of a lot more surrounding this situation that any of you have any idea of. I have heard from people personally who have said they will not participate in this if Misty is involved. I did not get that information from the poll.



Wouldn't it be best if people have such a problem with it they say something?

I was concerned that Misty was in charge again because several people sent me cards and I did not get them...which upset me for obvious reasons. That being said I asked and was answered. Now it's up to me if I want to participate or not.

As a Mod didn't you sign on to hear the bitching as well as the benefits of helping a place you support?


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## Emma (Nov 14, 2009)

Sandie S-R said:


> As a moderator and a long time member and participant here at Dimensions Traci, I have every right to to comment on this project. Keep in mind that as moderators we had to deal with all the complaints from all the people who's cards never made it to their destinations last year. And the numbers were in the hundreds.



I think Misty should run the project. She thought of it, she started it. She wasn't asked to do it by dims, she offered to do it to make people happy. 

I don't know why people think they have the right to complain to the mods if something goes wrong. Its nothing to do with you guys. 

I'm another one that didn't have time to vote but would happily send cards if Misty (and/or christine) are involved.


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## Sandie S-R (Nov 14, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Sandie, if they don't have the guts to say anything to Misty, I don't think you should be dragging them out of the shadows and using them to make your point here.



The threads from last year are searchable - check yourself and see how many people were angry. 

And as to why people choose to not speak up for themselves, that's not for me to say. Take a look at this thread. Maybe you can figure it out. Anytime anyone speaks up - they seem get ganged up on.


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## TraciJo67 (Nov 14, 2009)

Sandie S-R said:


> I tried to handle this privately with Misty. She is the one that refused to keep it private, and took the whole thing public with her poll.
> 
> Please trust me that my intent is not to hurt Misty. My responsibility to Dimensions and the members here is to see that this is handled with integrity and in a manner that does not result in the major foul ups and losses that occurred last year. Many people spent a lot of money on cards and postage only to have no one receive their cards. It was very disappointing to the senders, and to the recipients who never knew that there were so many others that were thinking of them at the Holidays.
> 
> I hope that you all understand that to me this is about the big picture here, not about one person's feelings.



I don't know all of the particulars re: why Misty posted this poll. IMO though, unless she was tearing up the cards and flushing 'em down the toilet, I'd be willing to overlook some mistakes. I trust that she had good intentions. It just seems to me, as an outsider looking in (which is not always a bad thing, Sandie ... I don't have to be a moderator or an exchange participant in order to have a valid perspective) that since this is entirely a voluntary thing, with the intention being a good one, some slack could have/should have been cut? 

I think that you are taking on a role that is far beyond the scope of your own voluntary job description as a Dims moderator. Why would you, or any other moderator, feel responsible for influencing the direction this project, or for dealing with the complaints that you got about it? 

Had I taken part, sent out a few dozen cards, and then found out that only a few people got them ... sure, I'd be annoyed. I'd like to think, though, that I'd keep it in perspective. Misty isn't the United States Postal Service (and they don't take any responsibility for their own massive screw-ups). She's one woman who volunteered to donate her time and energy to what seems a project that was just too big for her to handle alone. Couldn't that be addressed by her partnership with DA Bunny?


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## TraciJo67 (Nov 14, 2009)

Sandie S-R said:


> The threads from last year are searchable - check yourself and see how many people were angry.
> 
> And as to why people choose to not speak up for themselves, that's not for me to say. Take a look at this thread. Maybe you can figure it out. Anytime anyone speaks up - they seem get ganged up on.



You missed my point, Sandie.

If they don't speak up, it's not your role to speak on their behalf. I mistrust anyone who uses the shadowy "legions of silent supporters" argument ... anywhere, anyplace, no matter who uses it. It doesn't matter to me why people will not speak up. It matters to me that you are taking on that role for them. What I meant to imply (without spelling it out initially) was that I don't think it's ethical to do so, especially while wearing the moderator hat.


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## Sandie S-R (Nov 14, 2009)

Sugar said:


> Wouldn't it be best if people have such a problem with it they say something?
> 
> I was concerned that Misty was in charge again because several people sent me cards and I did not get them...which upset me for obvious reasons. That being said I asked and was answered. Now it's up to me if I want to participate or not.
> 
> As a Mod didn't you sign on to hear the bitching as well as the benefits of helping a place you support?



Of course I did, but if someone is going to use Dimensions as place thru which to run a project that ends up a big disaster with lots of people upset, then don't you think that we, as moderators have a responsibility to step up and attempt to avoid the problems a second time? Or do you think we're supposed to just sit back and watch the train wreck?

I feel an obligation to Dimensions to do what is right for the community as a whole. I think every Moderator does.


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## Sandie S-R (Nov 14, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> You missed my point, Sandie.
> 
> If they don't speak up, it's not your role to speak on their behalf. I mistrust anyone who uses the shadowy "legions of silent supporters" argument ... anywhere, anyplace, no matter who uses it. It doesn't matter to me why people will not speak up. It matters to me that you are taking on that role for them. What I meant to imply (without spelling it out initially) was that I don't think it's ethical to do so, especially while wearing the moderator hat.



Well then Traci, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I also think you are missing my points. 

I think as a moderator it _*is*_ my responsibility to step in when something is happening here that can potentially hurt a large group of people. As I just said in my last post.... if someone is going to use Dimensions as place thru which to run a project that ends up a big disaster with lots of people upset, then don't you think that we, as moderators have a responsibility to step up and attempt to avoid the problems a second time? Or do you think we're supposed to just sit back and watch the train wreck?


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## Sugar (Nov 14, 2009)

Sandie S-R said:


> Of course I did, but if someone is going to use Dimensions as place thru which to run a project that ends up a big disaster with lots of people upset, then don't you think that we, as moderators have a responsibility to step up and attempt to avoid the problems a second time? Or do you think we're supposed to just sit back and watch the train wreck?
> 
> I feel an obligation to Dimensions to do what is right for the community as a whole. I think every Moderator does.



Saying something and forcing the issue are two different things. Plus Christine stepped up and now two people are running a really big project. 

I think we all need to lay off Misty and this Snowflake thing. It's decided Misty and Christine are running it and if people don't want to participate because of Misty, then so be it. 

Seriously if people have issues THEY need to speak up. Saying there are people who have an issue but are only going to discuss it with you or another Mod...well that's being a coward. The mods nor you are running the program. Either speak up or deal with it.


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## TraciJo67 (Nov 14, 2009)

Sandie S-R said:


> Well then Traci, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I also think you are missing my points.
> 
> I think as a moderator it _*is*_ my responsibility to step in when something is happening here that can potentially hurt a large group of people. As I just said in my last post.... if someone is going to use Dimensions as place thru which to run a project that ends up a big disaster with lots of people upset, then don't you think that we, as moderators have a responsibility to step up and attempt to avoid the problems a second time? Or do you think we're supposed to just sit back and watch the train wreck?



I could use the same argument, Sandie. I could tell you that I've just received REP from several people and PM's from several more who agree with my perspective. I could wait a day or so and tell you that the numbers have now climbed to dozens. Your role as moderator, my role as a Dims participant, are equal HERE, in this discussion. Using the shadowy support argument isn't right. 

At any rate, it seems counter-productive to continue this discussion. You'll simply use it as yet another opportunity to highlight "fiasco" and "train wreck" and "disaster" with another collection of colorful terms that are (as I'm sure you're well, well aware) extremely offensive and also completely unnecessary.


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## cinnamitch (Nov 14, 2009)

It is Misty's baby, she should get the chance to make it work. I am in full support of her and Bunny working together. Good luck ladies.


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## goofy girl (Nov 14, 2009)

This thread is kind of breaking my heart.


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## D_A_Bunny (Nov 14, 2009)

I'm dreaming of a white Christmas, just like the ones I used to know. Ok that is a bit of a fib, cuz I live in Florida, BUT -

I am dreaming of Christmas cheer. Please friends, let us keep Secret Snowflake a positive and sharing experience.

All of the details are being worked out and new information will be available soon. I think that we can satisfy everyone and spread some cheer while we are at it.


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## rainyday (Nov 14, 2009)

Misty, I appreciate the time you've put into Secret Snowflake the past few years and that you created it in the first place (with a nod to Jes for getting the ball rolling with Cupid). It's always been a private service you've offered, not an official Dim amenity, so I think you should handle it any damn way you please. I'm glad you're bringing Bunny on board to help. I think she'll do a great job along with you and hopefully you both can have FUN doing it.

From what I remember from last year you were slow to acknowledge that part of the problem was you'd made errors, and that added to the animosity people had over it. You've acknowledged it since then, and while doing it right up front would have been better, that counts for something to me. 

To Sandie, I'd ask--Have you never made errors while doing a job and hoped afterward to make them right by showing you could do things better in the future? Whether you celebrate out of faith or not, the whole event this holiday centers around is a man who came to offer redemption for our failings. Out of three years of doing this, Misty did beautifully twice and messed up once. Can we all not be generous enough--especially after all the many hours she put into this for FREE over three years--to give her another chance to try this task again and succeed? Reason for the season, spirit of the holidays, love for your fellow man and all that.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Nov 14, 2009)

You know what? Some of you are being extremely un=forgiving here. And while I'm not surprised it is annoying and mean spirited. I agree with TraciJo 100% (another Festivous Miracle!!) If you don't want to deal with Misty - I think all of you people lurking about and not saying anything  should do your own Secret Snowflake. Then you can see just how much work it is.

This is one reason why I hate Christmas. It brings out the worst in people.

BAH HUMBUG!!!


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## goofy girl (Nov 14, 2009)

haha..Ok...I had to laugh at your Festivus Miracle


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## supersoup (Nov 14, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> I could use the same argument, Sandie. I could tell you that I've just received REP from several people and PM's from several more who agree with my perspective. I could wait a day or so and tell you that the numbers have now climbed to dozens. *Your role as moderator, my role as a Dims participant, are equal HERE, in this discussion. Using the shadowy support argument isn't right.
> *
> At any rate, it seems counter-productive to continue this discussion. You'll simply use it as yet another opportunity to highlight "fiasco" and "train wreck" and "disaster" with another collection of colorful terms that are (as I'm sure you're well, well aware) extremely offensive and also completely unnecessary.



the bolded emphasis is mine.

reading that we as posters do not understand what you are privy to behind the scenes, in regards to something the public board is discussing, makes me extremely uncomfortable, not to mention not appreciating that that would negate any opinion we as posters have on the situation. isn't that something that should stay quiet, and behind the scenes? i'm obviously not a moderator, but shouldn't anything said in that realm stay there?

if i can get my finances in order, i'll be participating again this year. thanks misty and bunny, for taking on this monumental volunteer task!


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## BBWTexan (Nov 14, 2009)

I did not participate in Secret Snowflake last year as a sender, but I did the prior year and my recollection is that the whole thing went quite well. In fact, Misty was kind enough to cover the extra postage I accidentally left off of a card I was sending overseas - I doubt I was the only one, so I imagine there was some personal financial cost involved. If memory serves, last year's card count was FAR in excess of the prior year, so while it may have been more than could be handled by one person, there was no way this would have been known in advance. We can Monday-morning-quarterback this thing all day long, but that doesn't really get us anywhere. 

We all know mistakes were made and that point is not being disputed by anyone. It sounds like measures are being put into place to make sure that history does not repeat itself and that's an excellent thing. How about we stop beating each other up over a single incident and move on and work towards a successful Secret Snowflake exchange this year? I, for one, will participate this year just to help prove that the program can work.

For all the lip service I see paid to fostering this idea of 'community,' it sure is amazing to see how fast we start kicking someone when they're down. Were this a chronic problem, I'd get the point, but it hasn't been. Additionally, it is completely voluntary, so if someone chooses to sit a year out to make sure it runs smoothly, he or she is free to do so. 

'Tis the season, my friends.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Nov 14, 2009)

I have just 1 small thing to say then I will leave this alone..

To the people that do not want Misty handling their cards this year,send them to Christine..To those that enjoy Misty doing them send them to Misty...Easy peasy..Just pm whomever you want and be done with it...

Mist and Christine make a joint decision of how many members each of you are willing to do then post it here...


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## mergirl (Nov 14, 2009)

As a plebian non moderator.. i would like to say.. erm.. Shouldn't people get a second chance??... especially if it wasn't totally their fault...!!?? How horrid and un xmasish this palava is. Misty and Miss bunny.. i have total faith in you both...
Jingle bells jingle bells...batman smells.. (Hope no-one is called batman here lest i get an xmas infraction) ho ho ho!!!!
Mergirl-NON MODERATOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Weeze (Nov 14, 2009)

mergirl said:


> As a plebian non moderator.. i would like to say.. erm.. Shouldn't people get a second chance??... especially if it wasn't totally their fault...!!?? How horrid and un xmasish this palava is. Misty and Miss bunny.. i have total faith in you both...
> Jingle bells jingle bells...batman smells.. (Hope no-one is called batman here lest i get an xmas infraction) ho ho ho!!!!
> Mergirl-NON MODERATOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Oh, you kill me


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## Wagimawr (Nov 14, 2009)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> To the people that do not want Misty handling their cards this year,send them to Christine..To those that enjoy Misty doing them send them to Misty...Easy peasy..Just pm whomever you want and be done with it...
> 
> Mist and Christine make a joint decision of how many members each of you are willing to do then post it here...


The perfect solution. Handles both the large workload and any personal issues too!


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## NancyGirl74 (Nov 14, 2009)

Or everyone could try and take their own time and energy to gather all the addresses on their own. How many people are going to give out their addresses to everyone who wants to send them a card???

Misty is offering a service here and that should be appreciated. Mistakes happen. She wasn't deliberately cruel or unkind or indifferent to the senders. There _are_ members of this community who have been all those things and we've been asked to forgive and forget those situations. I think we can forgive a mistake by someone accidentally (for whatever the reason) sent a few holiday cards late. Misty admitted her own errors as well as worked to come up with solutions for improving things that were beyond her control. We should all be so mature.


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## Mathias (Nov 15, 2009)

mergirl said:


> As a plebian non moderator.. i would like to say.. erm.. Shouldn't people get a second chance??... especially if it wasn't totally their fault...!!?? How horrid and un xmasish this palava is. Misty and Miss bunny.. i have total faith in you both...
> Jingle bells jingle bells...batman smells.. (Hope no-one is called batman here lest i get an xmas infraction) ho ho ho!!!!
> Mergirl-NON MODERATOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



CURSE YOU REP GODS!!


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## MizzSnakeBite (Nov 15, 2009)

D_A_Bunny said:


> To clarify - I have offered to take over the Secret Snowflake and am waiting for a response. This might take a few days since the message was just sent out.
> 
> If I were to take over Secret Snowflake, I do have a plan to keep track.
> 
> ...



You sound like you're up for the job!! :bow: I nominate D A Bunny!!

Say, can you take over and run my life? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze????


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## Smushygirl (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm not sure I like having my personal information in a database on someone's computer. Nor would I like it accessible by friends, roommates, etc. 

Perhaps Jes, who started this whole thing with Project Cupid, could explain how she does the card exchange. I've never had a problem with my cards there.


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## kayrae (Nov 15, 2009)

I received three cards last year and it really cheered me up. BUT I'M SORRY!!!! I was one of those people who were slow to acknowledge the senders.


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## superodalisque (Nov 15, 2009)

Misty i just wanted to say thank you for all of the years you've done secret snowflake. i really appreciated it. it was really nice to be surprised and to surprise people with my wishes. i am also very pleased that you'd like to try it again what with all of the unecessary criticism. it just goes to show you that sometimes good deeds seem to go unappreciated. but i just wanted you to know that i for one don't downplay all the work you've done that a lot of the critical folks would never do for others in a million years. anybody can talk and criticize but it takes a lot for someone like you to act and take on all of that work. i know there have been some mistakes in the past but they were hugely outnumbered by your successes over the years. i want to let you know that i trust you and you deserve my trust. going by the poll a lot of other people feel the same way. if people are really worried about it being too much for you they should just offer to help instead of reminding you of some relatively few mistakes in the past. the griping tone around here tends to lend a negative pall to anything positive that anyone is trying to do. especially when *if anything really bothers anyone about it all they have to do is opt out since its not manditory to participate or better yet offer their help.* i just want to thank you for weathering all of this childish drama and high handed arrogance. i hope it hasn't dampened your spirit. sometimes the things people say and do make you wonder if people get any meaning at all from what the season is supposed to be about in the first place.


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## superodalisque (Nov 15, 2009)

D_A_Bunny said:


> With Misty's permission, I would like to throw my hat into the ring. I offered to assist her last year and she has mentioned that she might like me to assist or take over this year since Donna has stated that she is unable to do it.
> 
> I can state for the record that I am a stay-at-home princess with lots of time to do what I choose. I do not have time consuming or elaborate plans for the holidays to take up a lot of my time.
> 
> ...



this is why we love you!:smitten: its an even better idea that the two of you are going to do it together with possibly even more help!


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## D_A_Bunny (Nov 15, 2009)

Smushygirl said:


> I'm not sure I like having my personal information in a database on someone's computer. Nor would I like it accessible by friends, roommates, etc.
> 
> Perhaps Jes, who started this whole thing with Project Cupid, could explain how she does the card exchange. I've never had a problem with my cards there.



Angie, we will be doing this old school. I believe Misty uses a notebook, I am going to be using index cards. The information will be on the cards only and after the project when all cards have been successfully received, the cards (the ones that I have written on) will go into the shredder.

Yeah, I have already burned thru two shredders in the past few years, but I shred everything and anything that has ANY personal information on it.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Nov 15, 2009)

CurvyEm said:


> I think thats a great idea. I was deliberating over offering to do that myself but I don't have the time.



I too think it is an excellent idea!!! There are loads of us here in the UK.


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## indy500tchr (Nov 15, 2009)

I always love this project!!! Sorry I didn't see this in time to participate in the poll so you can ADD ONE MORE to the number.

I've sent cards before and have had cards send to me. And being a close friend to Christine I know her and Misty will do an amazing job.


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## Blackjack (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm in. As a reciever, obviously, and if I can scrounge up the cash as a sender as well.


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## superodalisque (Nov 15, 2009)

Blackjack said:


> I'm in. As a reciever, obviously, and if I can scrounge up the cash as a sender as well.



maybe you can cut a few costs by sending pages from your notebook that says "santa haz lap" instead of buying cards. then all you have to pay for is the postage the personal touch is always best


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## MisticalMisty (Nov 16, 2009)

Sandie S-R said:


> As a moderator and a long time member and participant here at Dimensions Traci, I have every right to to comment on this project. Keep in mind that as moderators we had to deal with all the complaints from all the people who's cards never made it to their destinations last year. *And the numbers were in the hundreds. *



I'm not sure where you came up with that number, but it's absolutely not true.

The people you speak of need to stop hiding behind you and make their opinions known...if not, then speak only for yourself.

Seriously? Hundreds? It was maybe 75 at the most. Sheesh.


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## MisticalMisty (Nov 16, 2009)

Thank you for all your support. I appreciate it.

To clarify, I started this poll to see if there was any interest this year in secret snowflake. Clearly, there is.

Sandie, we don't know if the 36 people will participate as just senders or as both senders and receivers. Plus, not everyone reads the threads as several posters have mentioned.

Finally, Bunny and I have come up with a great system. Just FYI, people will have the option of choosing Bunny or myself to be responsible for their cards.

She and I will have our own way of doing things, but will abide by the same deadlines and rules.

More details to come later this week.


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## Miss Vickie (Nov 16, 2009)

I'd love to do the Secret Snowflake. I got some cards last year and look forward to sending some this year! Misty, I know you had problems with getting them out and I trust that you'll do your best to get them out as quickly and accurately as possible this year.

I'm glad you're doing it and not me -- if I were responsible, no one would get their cards, I'm so disorganized. I think you and Bunny tag teaming it is a good use of both of your time and resources.

Just let us know how/when/where and I'll get my cards out!


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## Mathias (Nov 16, 2009)

I received cards last year, so I would love to have Secret snowflake done again. I'll even send cards out.


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## mergirl (Nov 17, 2009)

yeah.. i loved the cards i recieved last year. I would be interested in giving and recieving (erm) but didn't get time to vote.


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## Leesa (Nov 17, 2009)

It is supposed to be fun DAMMIT!  (Now back to my Christmas joy! )


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## Aliena (Nov 19, 2009)

I am probably one of those idiots that didn't respond in time to Misty to receive a Christmas card someone took the time to send. For that I apologize to the sender and to Misty; I had so much going on at the time with school and meeting deadlines with research papers. By the time I realize someone was wanting to send a card, I was too late to respond. 

I am more than willing to be both a sending and receiver and I promise to meet any deadlines. 
Misty, just let us know the specific details when the time is nigh. 

~Dee


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## D_A_Bunny (Nov 19, 2009)

For anyone who hasn't noticed yet, the official Secret Snowflake thread has been started and is a sticky at the top of the Lounge page.

Please, anyone who is interested in participating, please read that thread and follow the directions. We will get your cards where you want them to go in a timely and efficient manner.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Nov 19, 2009)

I would love to participate. To be honest, it didn't bother me that some cards were late.....I got to feel special all over again from the cards that came in January when I checked my box


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