# More fat-bashing movie "fun"



## Renaissance Woman (Sep 30, 2006)

Just saw an ad for this:
http://www.meetnorbit.com/

Eddie Murphy plays several roles, including the fat wife/girlfriend (unclear from the ad) who is, of course, every negative stereotype you can think of.

Yay, another two-hour fat joke.


----------



## Dark_Hart (Sep 30, 2006)

errrrrrrrr


----------



## exile in thighville (Sep 30, 2006)

Renaissance Woman said:


> Just saw an ad for this:
> http://www.meetnorbit.com/
> 
> Eddie Murphy plays several roles, including the fat wife/girlfriend (unclear from the ad) who is, of course, every negative stereotype you can think of.
> ...



fat jokes could conceivably be funny, they just often aren't. they'd certainly be more welcome if there wasn't such deep hatred behind them. and they haven't come up with any new ones in years.

EDIT: i just watched the trailer. that's the hottest i've ever seen eddie murphy. i mean, that fat suit is not bad at all from the neck down. i don't really get the plot of the movie...nerdy pushover guy ends up with fat girlfriend who he really doesn't like? or something?


----------



## elle camino (Sep 30, 2006)

that's because from the neck down it's an actual lady! fancy fancy cgi. 
me and my filmschool nerd pals discussed this the night before last, whilst drinking.


----------



## Rainahblue (Sep 30, 2006)

Renaissance Woman said:


> Just saw an ad for this:
> http://www.meetnorbit.com/
> 
> Eddie Murphy plays several roles, including the fat wife/girlfriend (unclear from the ad) who is, of course, every negative stereotype you can think of.
> ...



"Nutty Professor" much? It looks like the same formula is being reworked except this time the moral of the story is it's okay to make fun of a fat person if they're unpleasant. If they're nice, like the Sherman Klump character, then you should just feel sorry for them.

I'm disappointed in Eddie.  ​


----------



## rectumsandroses (Sep 30, 2006)

Well...whoever it is from the neck down looks awesome


----------



## out.of.habit (Oct 1, 2006)

:doh: 

They're not even trying anymore. Unfortunately, it is still offensive as hell.


----------



## FatAndProud (Oct 1, 2006)

Lol, I think it looks funny. Maybe I'm not offended easily?


----------



## Seth Warren (Oct 1, 2006)

I can't see myself paying $12 to see this. It does look like a 90-minute fat joke with absolutely no plot to speak of.


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist (Oct 1, 2006)

I can't see myself being PAID $12 to sit through this drivel. 

1) Fat jokes. How original! "Wow, look at her, she's obnoxious! We should attribute this to her fat! Haw haw haw!"

2) Transracial jokes: "This dude's a pussy because he's raised by white people and is totally out of touch with his culture! Haw haw haw!" 

This movie trailer manages to demean women, blacks, whites, fat people, and polite men all in one sweep. Wow. How cute.


----------



## Ghostly-Spectre (Oct 1, 2006)

Generally, its now OK for a black person to make jokes about being black. Its ok, even politically PC, for a white person to respond by making a joke about being white. Its almost expected for nerds to make jokes about being nerds. Gays have championed efforts to bring gay jokes to television with Will & Grace. 

Politicians are given standing ovations when they make jokes about themselves. Likewise to comedians. Its considered a social miscue NOT to make a joke about a lawyer if the subject comes up in conversation.

Jokes about dumb blondes, while somewhat lowbrow, are generally ok. As PC rules are relaxing, jokes about gender, both male and female, are becoming more and more OK. Same thing with smokers.

So why is it STILL so horrible , so absolutely awful to make a fat joke? 

I don't get it. Surely being gay, or black in some communities, is as socially detrimental as being fat. In fact you can't even USE the word "fat" somtimes!

I'm not argueing that fat people should have their feelings hurt. What i am saying is that fat people shouldn't just say fat jokes arent ok whereas almost every other kind of joke imaginable is.


----------



## Wilson Barbers (Oct 1, 2006)

Ghostly-Spectre said:


> Generally, its now OK for a black person to make jokes about being black. Its ok, even politically PC, for a white person to respond by making a joke about being white. Its almost expected for nerds to make jokes about being nerds. Gays have championed efforts to bring gay jokes to television with Will & Grace.
> 
> So why is it STILL so horrible , so absolutely awful to make a fat joke?


You inlcuded the answer in your own question: every example you came up with involved people making jokes about themselves. I see no evidence that the makers of the new Eddie Murphy movie are themselves fat - are indulging in a little good-natured outsider humor at their own expense. No, on the basis of the trailer, what we see are members of the Hollywood mainstream moviemaking machine - which has exalted one specific body type for years now over all all others - building a movie around an obnoxiously cartoonish fat character who makes the Klumps look like models of decorum.

It's always risky judging a movie too harshly on the basis of its trailer, but I can definitely understand the reaction here . . .


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist (Oct 1, 2006)

*No, it's not okay.* Bigotry and hatred are still just that, even if it's self-hatred. When a white person makes a white joke, or a black person makes a black joke, or a gay person makes a gay joke, or a fat person makes a fat joke, what sort of message is that sending to white/black/gay/fat viewers, especially amongst the younger set. Now, I'm all for freedom of speech, but I believe we should still demand better of our entertainers that degrading others (including themselves) for amusement.

Learning to laugh at oneself is fine, but for hours and hours basically making the statement that a certain group is somehow lesser or stupid? That's not funny at all in my book.



Ghostly-Spectre said:


> Generally, its now OK for a black person to make jokes about being black. Its ok, even politically PC, for a white person to respond by making a joke about being white. Its almost expected for nerds to make jokes about being nerds. Gays have championed efforts to bring gay jokes to television with Will & Grace.
> 
> Politicians are given standing ovations when they make jokes about themselves. Likewise to comedians. Its considered a social miscue NOT to make a joke about a lawyer if the subject comes up in conversation.
> 
> ...


----------



## CurvaceousBBWLover (Oct 1, 2006)

I don't think Eddie Murphy's movie will be all that bad. It is easy for my politically correct friends to become offended simply because Eddie is going to make fat jokes, but Eddie is going to make jokes about everybody, not just fat people. His goal is to satirize life from the point of view of various characters, rather than taking the approach of "let's show how stupid/vile or disgusting this fat freak is" as the Wachowski Brothers did in Shallow Hal. Shallow Hal was definitely offensive.

My politically correct friends on this board will disagree, but it is good for people to be able to laugh at themselves sometimes. I think people should be allowed to joke about ethnicity, body size, sexual orientation as long as they don't go out of their way to be egregiously nasty to others. 







Renaissance Woman said:


> Just saw an ad for this:
> http://www.meetnorbit.com/
> 
> Eddie Murphy plays several roles, including the fat wife/girlfriend (unclear from the ad) who is, of course, every negative stereotype you can think of.
> ...


----------



## exile in thighville (Oct 1, 2006)

elle camino said:


> that's because from the neck down it's an actual lady! fancy fancy cgi.
> me and my filmschool nerd pals discussed this the night before last, whilst drinking.



whoa, that is trippy.


----------



## exile in thighville (Oct 1, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> I can't see myself being PAID $12 to sit through this drivel.
> 
> 1) Fat jokes. How original! "Wow, look at her, she's obnoxious! We should attribute this to her fat! Haw haw haw!"
> 
> ...



that sums it the fuck up except for one thing that won't happen because the movie's gonna flop, and that would be the director and/or murphy pulling a farrelly brothers-type defense in interviews, where they act like the content was intended to be offensive for shock value, not that they know what true offensiveness is, but also that it's a "love letter to fat people." ugh.


----------



## William (Oct 1, 2006)

Hi

It is a shame that this guy is now such a cliché, he once had talent. He is almost like a movie about a famous entertainer who has lost his talent and gasps for anything to continue. 

If I remember right one of Eddies homies from his SNL days was big enough to be Pros. Klump.

William




dan ex machina said:


> that sums it the fuck up except for one thing that won't happen because the movie's gonna flop, and that would be the director and/or murphy pulling a farrelly brothers-type defense in interviews, where they act like the content was intended to be offensive for shock value, not that they know what true offensiveness is, but also that it's a "love letter to fat people." ugh.


----------



## GordoNegro (Oct 1, 2006)

The movie seemed hilarious to me.
I can pretty see myself and an ssbbw date rofl in the theater as it happens.
If something is funny regardless of the demographics, I'm the type to laugh period.
Same things go if its corny as well.
As badly as some berated Shallow Hal, at least he stayed with her as an ssbbw, how many other films/shows have that happen?
With the Nutty professor/the klumps Sherman got the girl being a ssbhm in the end.
I guess we're all entitled to the different types of humor that appeal to us whether its slapstick, sitcom, dry, witty, lowbrow, stereotypical etc.
The trailer was entertaining and fun to me, and other ssbbws I showed it to. I just do not see how its that serious, life's too short.


----------



## out.of.habit (Oct 1, 2006)

Wilson Barbers said:


> You inlcuded the answer in your own question: every example you came up with involved people making jokes about themselves. I see no evidence that the makers of the new Eddie Murphy movie are themselves fat - are indulging in a little good-natured outsider humor at their own expense. No, on the basis of the trailer, what we see are members of the Hollywood mainstream moviemaking machine - which has exalted one specific body type for years now over all all others - building a movie around an obnoxiously cartoonish fat character who makes the Klumps look like models of decorum.
> 
> It's always risky judging a movie too harshly on the basis of its trailer, but I can definitely understand the reaction here . . .


*
You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.*



TheSadeianLinguist said:


> *No, it's not okay.* Bigotry and hatred are still just that, even if it's self-hatred. When a white person makes a white joke, or a black person makes a black joke, or a gay person makes a gay joke, or a fat person makes a fat joke, what sort of message is that sending to white/black/gay/fat viewers, especially amongst the younger set. Now, I'm all for freedom of speech, but I believe we should still demand better of our entertainers that degrading others (including themselves) for amusement.
> 
> Learning to laugh at oneself is fine, but for hours and hours basically making the statement that a certain group is somehow lesser or stupid? That's not funny at all in my book.



*You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TheSadeianLinguist again.*


You are all too on the mark on the boards lately! My rep cannot keep up!


----------



## out.of.habit (Oct 1, 2006)

It is true that we often take life too seriously, it is true that we need to laugh more. However, I don't think that the sad fact that we don't laugh enough excuses the poor attempts made at humor at the expense of others. It is sad that we need to stereotype groups of people and marginalize them to have a good time, but that doesn't make it okay. Sure, a couple self-deprecating jabs is amusing every now and then, but we really need to come up with a new way to laugh other than to imply that a group of people (or one person) is stupid, or lazy, or terrorists even... 

Really, we can be more intelligent than that. Maybe it's a preference of mine, maybe a preference of others to guffaw at the expense of others... and while sensitivity can be taken to an unreasonable level, I do not believe that this is the case here.


----------



## metalheadFA (Oct 1, 2006)

I think when your in a house with your mates it can be funny to satarize political correctness, I hate Racism, Sexism and Homophobia but im not above making a joke with my freinds because from my point of view Im sending up the stupidity of Nazi biggots who believe. In the same respect it wouldnt work on the big screen if I made a rascist joke as there is no way I can provide an explanation, thus unless it is so obviously ridiculous (Eg. John Cleese's goosestep in Fawlty Towers) it is not satirical and from the trailer it doesnt look to be making any attempt to be satirical rather just plain nasty and idiotic. Unfortunatley I can see alot of people buying into this in the UK because there is a real following for these really purile comedies over here call it a superiority complex but I wouldnt pay six quid to see anything that hasent got some element of artistry or social comment (or gore horror lol) in it.
Paramount comedy ran a great ad campaign in Britain a couple of weeks ago when they were showing a series of Eddie Murphy films which had the tagline "See Eddie Murphy when he was good."


----------



## Rainahblue (Oct 1, 2006)

:huh: Why is it that laughing at bigotry is so often considered progressive thinking?

The older members of my family grew up under Jim Crow law, so no, I don't usually find jokes about race amusing. In an age when preteen girls risk literally starving themselves due to the fatphobia exhibited everywhere in the media, I'm very sensitive to and not amused by fat jokes.

I have no problem referring to myself as fat. I have no problem making non-pc jokes with close friends. This movie is not just being marketed to my friends and me, though. It's going to be shown to people everywhere and not all of those people will be laughing because they think fat jokes are ridiculous enough to be funny.​


----------



## GordoNegro (Oct 1, 2006)

So who just to ask is acceptably funny in this case?
Who would you spend on tickets to watch stand-up live or on tv?


Jim Crow?
Steve Harvey, Cedric, DL Hughley, Bernie Mac, David Chappelle, Sommore, Adele Givens et al. have all done comedy routines based on their experiences that some can say are race-related.
Kings of Comedy didn't go over too well?
Or is this a modern-day version of Amos and Andy?

Honestly Big Mama's House 2 should have never been made as that was just painful to watch from beginning to end like Soul Plane.
From the trailer alone, this should outgross the both of them.

Besides this could be a wake-up call for some folk. If others take from the movie and apply it to their opinions of you, your sexuality etc. it may be time to re-evaulate why those individuals are in your life or what impact they have on your life.
Just a thought.


----------



## NFA (Oct 1, 2006)

CurvaceousBBWLover said:


> I don't think Eddie Murphy's movie will be all that bad. It is easy for my politically correct friends to become offended simply because Eddie is going to make fat jokes, but Eddie is going to make jokes about everybody, not just fat people. His goal is to satirize life from the point of view of various characters, rather than taking the approach of "let's show how stupid/vile or disgusting this fat freak is" as the Wachowski Brothers did in Shallow Hal. Shallow Hal was definitely offensive.
> 
> My politically correct friends on this board will disagree, but it is good for people to be able to laugh at themselves sometimes. I think people should be allowed to joke about ethnicity, body size, sexual orientation as long as they don't go out of their way to be egregiously nasty to others.



In your rush to congratulate yourself for your "political incorrectness", you seem to have exhibited no desire to watch the trailer. If you had, you'd have seen that not only is the humor VERY much in the "Shallow Hal" vein, it is clearly much more mean-spirited and for the very explicit purpose of holding the fat character up for ridicule. The trailer includes a number of scenes with cheap fat jokes, mocking the fat character for having a sense of self-worth, and making it very clear that we are meant to laugh at her. "Shallow Hal", for all its faults, at least thought it was challenging fat bigotry. It was doing so in a way which really only served to affirm fat bigotry, but the producers clearly were presenting the fat character as the good guy. Not so here. She is presented in an unrelentingly negative and spiteful manner. It is not "politically correct" to be offended when someone treats you in a cruel and dehumanizing manner. Its frankly the right way to respond to such a direct and unapologetic slight.

And the arguement that fat people are somehow being too sensative and sure learn to take a joke, what culture do you live in, exactly? Because, if there is a culture where its not okay for there to be frequent cruel jokes made at the expense of fat people, I would like to move there. If there is a culture where fat women aren't completely disenfranchised by the film industry that the only time they appear on a movie is screen is as played by Gweneth Paltrow, Martin Lawrence, or Eddie Murphy, I'd like to move there. If there is a culture where fat people are treated so lightly where they could be honestly accused of being overly sensative if they were the object of self-directed humor similiar to what we see in the gay community or the black community, tell me. Because that sure isn't the culture I live in. The one I live in, fat people are ridiculed and demeaned as one of the few "safe" targets for vicious and objectifying mockery. Fat people are kept out of the entertainment industry and appear only as targets of mean jokes or objects of shame and pity. That's the culture I live in. So no, I don't think saying that enough is enough or rather that enough was enough YEARS ago, is showing a lack of humor or an excess of sensativity. I'd say its about time.


----------



## Rainahblue (Oct 1, 2006)

GordoNegro said:


> So who just to ask is acceptably funny in this case?
> Who would you spend on tickets to watch stand-up live or on tv?
> 
> 
> ...



I don't care who bases their standup act on race, I don't find it funny. I'm not always necessarily offended, but I certainly have more respect for a comedian who can find something else to joke about. 

As far as "Kings of Comedy" goes, I'm not sure what your point is. I _personally_ do not like comedy based on the obvious differences in cultures, whether they're based on sexuality or race... that has nothing to do with what the masses prefer.​


----------



## Miss Vickie (Oct 1, 2006)

CurvaceousBBWLover said:


> I don't think Eddie Murphy's movie will be all that bad. It is easy for my politically correct friends to become offended simply because Eddie is going to make fat jokes, but Eddie is going to make jokes about everybody, not just fat people.




Since when did kindness and consideration become PC? And for that matter, just because he attacks everyone, how does THAT make it okay? I don't get it.... It just seems to me that lots of times when people want to justify cruelty -- whether it be against another religion, size, or race -- they call those of us who are outraged by it "being PC" and trivialize our position as such. That's hardly fair. If you find this kind of humor funny, then congratulations. It's just not my cuppa tea. If that makes me "PC", then so be it.


----------



## Tina (Oct 1, 2006)

Hey, I like fat jokes, but not ususally if told by a skinny person, because, see, we fat people _are_ the jokes to mainstream USA.

Now, John Pinette, Chris Farley, Thea Vidale -- any fat, and funny, comedian can make me laugh at a fat joke. The difference is that they have laughed _with_ us as well as _at_ us.


----------



## GordoNegro (Oct 1, 2006)

Rainahblue said:


> I don't care who bases their standup act on race, I don't find it funny. I'm not always necessarily offended, but I certainly have more respect for a comedian who can find something else to joke about.
> 
> As far as "Kings of Comedy" goes, I'm not sure what your point is. I _personally_ do not like comedy based on the obvious differences in cultures, whether they're based on sexuality or race... that has nothing to do with what the masses prefer.​



So which comedian(s) do you know that find something else to joke about and are successful?
I hope you're not referring to Byron Allen and other dry type of comedians out there on Comedy Central (not that all are as they are not). but even if so everyone is entitled to their opinions as such.
My point with Kings of Comedy is that there are elements of cultural/race/upbringing in all 4 of their routines and I've yet to hear people knock it or knock it completely.


----------



## out.of.habit (Oct 1, 2006)

GordoNegro said:


> So which comedian(s) do you know that find something else to joke about and are successful?
> I hope you're not referring to Byron Allen and other dry type of comedians out there on Comedy Central (not that all are as they are not). but even if so everyone is entitled to their opinions as such.
> My point with Kings of Comedy is that there are elements of cultural/race/upbringing in all 4 of their routines and I've yet to hear people knock it or knock it completely.



I just don't think this is a fair question, putting someone in a position where they need to defend themselves for finding something offensive. There are plenty of comedians that don't need to use these issues to make a living - and it is okay if you don't happen to enjoy their acts. It comes down to preference. And, again, the comedians you mention are poking fun at _their own upbringing_, their own experiences with race, not someone else's. This isn't to say that less hot-button issues that come up in comedy wouldn't be hilarious... but what I find to be less offensive could be more offensive to you. I'm not proposing that I know where the safe comedy is, but I am proposing that it would be great if we could come to a place where media in general could be respectful of things that deviate from their own status quo.


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist (Oct 2, 2006)

GordoNegro said:


> So which comedian(s) do you know that find something else to joke about and are successful?
> I hope you're not referring to Byron Allen and other dry type of comedians out there on Comedy Central (not that all are as they are not). but even if so everyone is entitled to their opinions as such.
> My point with Kings of Comedy is that there are elements of cultural/race/upbringing in all 4 of their routines and I've yet to hear people knock it or knock it completely.



Not all of them are "dry" by any means. Look at Dennis Leary. Sure, he makes the occassional jab at groups, but mostly he's crafted an "angry" persona which makes people like me laugh like hell. There's a big difference in making people face a truth like, "Fat people are just fat. They're not big-boned," and admitting one's outright an asshole, than *implying* for hours that fat people are lazy and bossy through crude physical humor and claiming one's a nice guy. The latter's disingenuous and really more vicious.


----------



## Rainahblue (Oct 2, 2006)

GordoNegro said:


> So which comedian(s) do you know that find something else to joke about and are successful?
> I hope you're not referring to Byron Allen and other dry type of comedians out there on Comedy Central (not that all are as they are not). but even if so everyone is entitled to their opinions as such.
> My point with Kings of Comedy is that there are elements of cultural/race/upbringing in all 4 of their routines and I've yet to hear people knock it or knock it completely.



OoH and TSL took the words right out of my mouth: why does it matter? I think it's pretty obvious by now that you and I have comepletely different tastes in what we consider entertaining, let's leave it at that. My point was, I won't be paying a dime to see yet another flick promoting the idea that fatphobia is hilarious. That was the point of this thread, right?

As Tina said, comedians who laugh with us are a world away from those who make fat jokes while never having been in our skin.

I could care less whether or not KOC was successful or wildly popular. So is crack. I still have no plans to smoke any.​


----------



## GWARrior (Oct 2, 2006)

I <3 Eddie Murphy.


----------



## Fairia (Oct 2, 2006)

What I'm really confused about is who is in the fat suit? And who is playing Norbit? And...what is a norbit?


----------



## GordoNegro (Oct 3, 2006)

Comparing KOC to crack is all I needed to hear.
It's ok, I'll fall back.

Yes, I do like Leary's stand-up as its witty and funny.


----------



## Jay West Coast (Oct 3, 2006)

Maybe its because I've spent so much time in Latino culture, but I don't think being able to laugh at something necessarily furthers a social stereotype or prevents people from understanding one another. Often, I've seen humour used to teach about those differences. And i believe being able to joke about yourself is healthy. We can't always take life so seriously. 

I was thinking about this the other day. I was with some Guatemaltecos and Hondurenos two days ago sightseeing, and they were cracking Gringo jokes with me. I'm mostly gringo, and I have tons of gringo friends back in the states. My dad's a gringo. So why wasn't I offended? Because they are funny. And these guys joke about Guatemaltecos, and Hondurenos, and Puertorriquenos, and women, and men, and kids, and architects and engineers, and Christians and Muslims, and rabbis and pastors and imams, factory owners and factory workers, doctors and patients, about themselves and the people they admire. 

We're all different. That's whats so great about us. And if we can't learn to enjoy that, then we'll simply learn to loathe it. It's this sort of joking that has helped a lot of Latinos keep going even during oppression. 

And I'm not necessarily saying that I wouldnt find some of the jokes in the movie too much or offensive. But the best BBW/FA movie ever (Tida Chang:Jumbo Queen, Thailand, 2004), had plenty of fat jokes. But they were great fat jokes, because the main character's beauty was always a given in the movie, and only other people's hatred toward fat was called into question. 

I dunno what my thesis is. I guess I should just say that I never thought I could ever find Eddie Murphy hot until I saw that car washing scene....


----------



## CurvaceousBBWLover (Oct 3, 2006)

I thought the trailer for "Meet Norbit" was interesting. I will see the movie and after I do, I will start a thread about it. 

I liked "The Nutty Professor" and even bought the movie. Before I saw that movie, I had no idea that fat people came with their own issues. I found some of the things in there to be teachable, so to speak. 

Shallow Hal was over the top. I thought the scene of the woman breaking the chair was unnecessary. The swimming pool scene was overdone. I'm certain that if the lady landed in the pool, she would displace a lot of water. I definitly think she would not have displaced enough water to push a child up into a tree. That was unnecessary.

What really angered me about Shallow Hal was its insinuation that every fat person contains a beautiful thin person inside of them. What would have made that movie better would have been if Hal could have seen the people as people and seen their beauty without the Farrelly Brothers promoting the idea that thin = beautiful. I have never agreed with that idea.

If I was a movie director, I would make lots of positive movies containing fat characters. And one of these days, I might just write some fiction with a positive fat character.

In a diverse society, humor affects people differently. I know that if some people saw themselves depicted in a movie like Meet Norbit--and this movie made fun of imperfections they saw in themselves--they would be greatly offended. No one likes to be the butt of jokes about their weaknesses. 

I think it's wrong to condemn "Meet Norbit" before the movie even comes out in theaters. I think everyone should be able to view the movie and form his or her opinion about what happened.











NFA said:


> In your rush to congratulate yourself for your "political incorrectness", you seem to have exhibited no desire to watch the trailer. If you had, you'd have seen that not only is the humor VERY much in the "Shallow Hal" vein, it is clearly much more mean-spirited and for the very explicit purpose of holding the fat character up for ridicule. The trailer includes a number of scenes with cheap fat jokes, mocking the fat character for having a sense of self-worth, and making it very clear that we are meant to laugh at her. "Shallow Hal", for all its faults, at least thought it was challenging fat bigotry. It was doing so in a way which really only served to affirm fat bigotry, but the producers clearly were presenting the fat character as the good guy. Not so here. She is presented in an unrelentingly negative and spiteful manner. It is not "politically correct" to be offended when someone treats you in a cruel and dehumanizing manner. Its frankly the right way to respond to such a direct and unapologetic slight.
> 
> And the arguement that fat people are somehow being too sensative and sure learn to take a joke, what culture do you live in, exactly? Because, if there is a culture where its not okay for there to be frequent cruel jokes made at the expense of fat people, I would like to move there. If there is a culture where fat women aren't completely disenfranchised by the film industry that the only time they appear on a movie is screen is as played by Gweneth Paltrow, Martin Lawrence, or Eddie Murphy, I'd like to move there. If there is a culture where fat people are treated so lightly where they could be honestly accused of being overly sensative if they were the object of self-directed humor similiar to what we see in the gay community or the black community, tell me. Because that sure isn't the culture I live in. The one I live in, fat people are ridiculed and demeaned as one of the few "safe" targets for vicious and objectifying mockery. Fat people are kept out of the entertainment industry and appear only as targets of mean jokes or objects of shame and pity. That's the culture I live in. So no, I don't think saying that enough is enough or rather that enough was enough YEARS ago, is showing a lack of humor or an excess of sensativity. I'd say its about time.


----------



## Littleghost (Oct 3, 2006)

Eddie's kinda gone downhill over the years, maybe it's the curse of SNL or perhaps he's just suffering from hiding that he's a closet-FA.

Where's Gumby, dammit?
--Littleghost


----------



## CurvaceousBBWLover (Oct 3, 2006)

I wouldn't be surprised if he was closeted. 

His movies were great when he first started making movies. I agree with you that his quality has gone down. 




Littleghost said:


> Eddie's kinda gone downhill over the years, maybe it's the curse of SNL or perhaps he's just suffering from hiding that he's a closet-FA.
> 
> Where's Gumby, dammit?
> --Littleghost


----------



## metalheadFA (Oct 3, 2006)

Didnt Eddie Murphy get picked up for picking up a male prostitute or a transvestite (im sure there was summin unusual!)
I agree with CurvaceousBBWLover Shallow Hal was really insulting, I watched that movie recently not being a big fan of thses crap comedies being spouted from America (No offence intended) and the inferences were terrible, basically being good was personified by being thin yet every good person I have ever met has not been a waif (at least a UK size 10) Stupid stupid stupid, basically the infered message was thin girls are good although the only good message is where Jack Black procliams Gwyneth Paltrow in her fuller form is "Beautiful" its really making up for a big propoganda burst for the previous hour and a half of your life (plus has anybody on that movie who designed the fat suit dated a BBW/SSBBW?)
One word British critique: Shit!


----------



## Ghostly-Spectre (Oct 3, 2006)

metalheadFA said:


> Didnt Eddie Murphy get picked up for picking up a male prostitute or a transvestite (im sure there was summin unusual!)
> I agree with CurvaceousBBWLover Shallow Hal was really insulting, I watched that movie recently not being a big fan of thses crap comedies being spouted from America (No offence intended) and the inferences were terrible, basically being good was personified by being thin yet every good person I have ever met has not been a waif (at least a UK size 10) Stupid stupid stupid, basically the infered message was thin girls are good although the only good message is where Jack Black procliams Gwyneth Paltrow in her fuller form is "Beautiful" its really making up for a big propoganda burst for the previous hour and a half of your life (plus has anybody on that movie who designed the fat suit dated a BBW/SSBBW?)
> One word British critique: Shit!



You totally didn't get the movie.

Hal, who was shallow, saw thin women are more attractive than fat women. Why? Because he was a typical member of society that thinks that way. He learns to see women for their "Inner beauty," thus to him, the nice women look like his version of beautiful, thin.

What's intersting here is that ALL of the good women are ugly in reality and all of the thin beautiful women are bad people. Ok?

Then, Hal loses his spell. He sees women for how they truly are. But is he repulsed by his newly fat girlfriend? No! He learns the lesson, that you should see inner beauty, not outer beaty, and he loves her for who she is as a human being even if she isn't his ideal weight.

Shallow Hal is not a FA movie, though it is pro-size-acceptance. Shallow Hal is about saying we should judge women not by their looks but by who they are as people.

By the way , some people strongly objected that throughout the movie there were a few "fat jokes." There were also jokes about people being bald, people being stupid, people being born with genetic abnormalities, ect. It had jokes. The PC police should understand that jokes are OK. Jokes do not cause the problem. The guy who cracks off a "fat joke" in a bar isn't a problem because he told an unkind joke about fat women. He's at fault because of his attitude about women that would make the joke funny.

In that respect, Shallow Hal is a complete repudation of all fat jokes because the entire point of the movie is that its really really wrong to judge women based on how they look.


----------



## metalheadFA (Oct 3, 2006)

Its not that I didnt get the basic concept its more how Shallow Hal was marketed and what its target audience would have taken away from the movie.


----------



## out.of.habit (Oct 4, 2006)

Ghostly-Spectre said:


> You totally didn't get the movie.
> 
> What's intersting here is that ALL of the good women are ugly in reality and all of the thin beautiful women are bad people. Ok?
> 
> ...



Let's get one thing straight:
Size-acceptance isn't just about finding the good _inside_ people. Size-acceptance is also learning about the social stigma that goes along with fat, and dispelling the myths. There is nothing gained by saying that in reality the 'good women are ugly' and the 'thin beautiful women are bad.' Good does not equal ugly and thin/beautiful does not equal bad. Thin and beautiful are not synonyms, nor are fat and ugly. Fat and beautiful are not mutually exclusive, and the lesson shouldn't be that he simply shouldn't be repulsed by his fat girlfriend.
The lesson should be that she IS beautiful, and always has been. This isn't to discount that fat women are also frequently intelligent, charismatic, amazing, etc., but it is to say that the movie does not stand for size-acceptance, it barely stands for size-tolerance. 
If the moral of the story is to only look within, they've only got half the picture, and have done the half they did get a grave disservice by presenting the fat girlfriend the way that they did. Her 'true beauty' is not just her personality*. It is everything about her.*

/rant.
s'cuse me if this is less than eloquent. It's true, IQ drops by 12 when livid.


----------



## Renaissance Woman (Oct 4, 2006)

Ghostly-Spectre said:


> You totally didn't get the movie.


I totally DID get Shallow Hal. And I wasn't impressed. Every fat joke they did? I predicted it. And even said it out loud to prove it. "Cue the chair breaking." "Cue the car tipping when she gets in." Oh, how clever, original, and heart-warming.

For those who are arguing about how we should not be overly sensitive and PC, let me posit the following: What would you say about a movie made by white people about black people who are always late, are lazy, uneducated, eat nothing but chicken and watermelon, and are oversexed? And for good measure, what if it threw in some jokes about Asians being bad drivers and good at math? Would it have jokes that some would find funny? Sure. Are there some people from all these groups that fall into these categories? Sure. Does that mean that it would be original, creative, or a positive thing to do? Hell emphatically no. 

There is a big difference between making fun of stereotypes and contributing to them. Both Shallow Hal and this latest Eddie Murphy offering fall into the latter category. As an example of the first, Dave Chappelle has a joke that goes something like, "I thought I liked chicken because it was delicious. Turns out I'm genetically predisposed to liking it." See the difference?


----------



## Ghostly-Spectre (Oct 4, 2006)

Renaissance Woman said:


> I totally DID get Shallow Hal. And I wasn't impressed. Every fat joke they did? I predicted it. And even said it out loud to prove it. "Cue the chair breaking." "Cue the car tipping when she gets in." Oh, how clever, original, and heart-warming.
> 
> For those who are arguing about how we should not be overly sensitive and PC, let me posit the following: What would you say about a movie made by white people about black people who are always late, are lazy, uneducated, eat nothing but chicken and watermelon, and are oversexed? And for good measure, what if it threw in some jokes about Asians being bad drivers and good at math? Would it have jokes that some would find funny? Sure. Are there some people from all these groups that fall into these categories? Sure. Does that mean that it would be original, creative, or a positive thing to do? Hell emphatically no.
> 
> There is a big difference between making fun of stereotypes and contributing to them. Both Shallow Hal and this latest Eddie Murphy offering fall into the latter category. As an example of the first, Dave Chappelle has a joke that goes something like, "I thought I liked chicken because it was delicious. Turns out I'm genetically predisposed to liking it." See the difference?



I'm sorry we disagree. When I saw Shallow Hal i thought it was the biggest gift Hollywood had ever given overweight women. When i read that so many were offended i thought "how ungreatful." Though, upon later reflection i admit that as a thin man i really don't know what its like and i have no right to judge others views.

You mention a movie about Black people being negative stereotypes. What if there was a movie about a white guy who's a racist and that's how he sees the world. Then something happens to change his mind and he's tolerant and accepting in the end. Along the way, we have some laughs about the strange views this guy holds, along with making fun of other popularly held notions. 

What's wrong with that?


----------



## Renaissance Woman (Oct 4, 2006)

Ghostly-Spectre said:


> I'm sorry we disagree. When I saw Shallow Hal i thought it was the biggest gift Hollywood had ever given overweight women. When i read that so many were offended i thought "how ungreatful." Though, upon later reflection i admit that as a thin man i really don't know what its like and i have no right to judge others views.
> 
> You mention a movie about Black people being negative stereotypes. What if there was a movie about a white guy who's a racist and that's how he sees the world. Then something happens to change his mind and he's tolerant and accepting in the end. Along the way, we have some laughs about the strange views this guy holds, along with making fun of other popularly held notions.
> 
> What's wrong with that?


In your movie scenario, should all black people then be grateful about how much that theoretical movie has done for them? Wow, stereotypes are suddenly shattered by showing them over and over in order to build up to a five minute revelation at the end!  

Feh. So call me ungrateful, then.


----------



## CurvaceousBBWLover (Oct 4, 2006)

I agree. They could have left out some of their more offensive jokes ( like the woman breaking the chair and tipping the canoe) if they wanted to promote acceptance. Also they could have left out the beautiful thin people Hal saw. This movie showed that the Farrelly brothers had no concept of what life was like for a 300+ pound woman. I'm not sure what they were trying to do with the movie except show what morons they could be.



metalheadFA said:


> Its not that I didnt get the basic concept its more how Shallow Hal was marketed and what its target audience would have taken away from the movie.


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist (Oct 4, 2006)

Love someone for inner beauty only? Oh, that's going to make for a healthy sexual relationship! It's Hollywood once again promoting this Wildeian bullshit: "It's better to be beautiful than to be good, but if you're ugly, it's better to be good than bad." All "ugly" women are not nice. All "pretty" women are not mean. One shouldn't "settle for an ugly chick" just to get married. That's the message of the film. 

Jokes are fine, but this was being bandied as family friendly fun. WHY is it considered "nice" humor to make fun of fat people, but a comedian who uses the word "fuck" is a MONSTER? 

Here's MY problem with the film: Bob and Sally drop their 14 y/o chubby daughter and her friend to catch a film. The girls see this film and see that if they are wanted, it won't be because they're truly beautiful. How awful is that to think that only people looking for abstract inner beauty will consider a relationship with you? NO ONE approaches a person based on that. It basically reinforces the idea that if you're fat, you're damned lucky for anything that comes your way, even if you're really nice. That's not pro size acceptance.


Ghostly-Spectre said:


> You totally didn't get the movie.
> 
> Hal, who was shallow, saw thin women are more attractive than fat women. Why? Because he was a typical member of society that thinks that way. He learns to see women for their "Inner beauty," thus to him, the nice women look like his version of beautiful, thin.
> 
> ...


----------



## Les Toil (Oct 4, 2006)

This is the second time I've heard of a movie where they've computer imposed a comedian's head on another's body. First being Marlon Wayon's head on a midget's body. This new Eddie movie creeps me out as strongly as that midget movie does with that effect. Morbid. LOL...I mean, where the f#ck did those people's heads go?? And yes, the fat jokes are offensive and tired. And I agree it's hypocritical Eddie showed how deeply hurtful fat jokes are in Nutty Professor.


----------



## Joseph the Weird (Oct 4, 2006)

"Fat women are ugly, but that shouldn't matter" is as much size-acceptance as "women are naturally inferior but we should give them a try anyway" is gender equality. It's not even a step forward. Saying "the stereoptype is true but...", whatever is behind the but, you're still affirming said stereotype. Which is not a good thing. I understand fat women's outrage at many of the supposedly "fat-positive" films, because saying "you should treat them nicely even though they're fat" is a lesson in political correctness, not in size acceptance.

And I'm not even going to mention the supposedly "fat friendly" films that end with said fat main character losing weight. Those are even worse than bullshit.


----------



## Slowfuse (Oct 5, 2006)

Ok, not to throw gas on the fire, but did anybody else see tonight's "Mind of Mencia"? He did a musical skit that had a BBW doing some sexy dancing. Then, leading into the commercial breaks, showed the audition footage of 3 other women dancing nasty. Then at the end of the show, all 4 came back out on stage, doing some dirty dancing. And while they were great to watch, they were presented in a "comedy" format. Was cool though, watching the guys get out of their seats and get on stage to dance with them. Wish I could have.....


----------



## exile in thighville (Oct 7, 2006)

Ghostly-Spectre said:


> You totally didn't get the movie.
> 
> Hal, who was shallow, saw thin women are more attractive than fat women. Why? Because he was a typical member of society that thinks that way. He learns to see women for their "Inner beauty," thus to him, the nice women look like his version of beautiful, thin.
> 
> ...



and what you're missing is that shallow hal is complete hypocrisy because it "wants" to be a movie about everything you mentioned, yet it wants to have its cake and eat it too, as a comedy vehicle where every joke is on the fat girl anyway. look at the intentions of the filmmakers. they want to make you laugh by patronizing the same person you're supposed to feel sorry for. the guy who cracks the joke in the bar for instance, isn't at fault because of his attitude about women. the "joke" is that hal thinks he's talking about him, not rosemary. ha ha, get it? because he thinks she's thin! listen, you can like shallow hal, i'm not going to attack your taste in cheap comedy, but don't piss on my leg and claim it's a pro-size acceptance film. that's my problem with it. i don't have issues with offensive comedies, i have issues with offensive comedies that put on the air of having a "message" or some kind of redeeming social value. the message of shallow hal is that you can learn to love a fatty if you're blind to what she actually looks like, and then you're too attached by the time you find out the truth to get nauseated by those unsightly chins and rolls. that's not size acceptance. that's teaching size tolerance, like a plea bargain or something. not realistic and certainly not "acceptance." shallow hal isn't an awful film because it completely fails at its own message, it is because it's not funny. there are funny fat jokes. chairs breaking and huge splashes from diving in a pool don't fall into that.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 7, 2006)

Lol- Im not offended and I'm fat enough to "lift my belly" like the lady in the trailer. Im still laughing about the song "dontcha". I just see the "fat humor" as a bi-product of what it's really about? A nerdy guy that always gets the shit end of the stick? (hell I can relate to that nerdy part on some level, too and still laugh about it  )
I havent seen the movie but dont think it intends to specifically pick on fat people ( they pick on nerds and asian stereotypes too from the looks of it)
I dont need Hollywood to tell me or others that I am attractive- screw Hollywood. While I fully realize that part of the reason that many of us have/had issues with body acceptance is from the stereo-typing, we have to stop letting them make us feel bad. If someone is blind and easily led in their opinions by such things as comedy movies and is made to "hate" fat people because someone told them to, Im not interested in them or their opinions anyway. 
As a strong person, I prefer to surround myself with strong people who arent afraid to form their own opinions and preferences. The sheep can find someone else to give a damn about their shallow thoughts. I think part of self-acceptance is being able to not only enjoy and love myself, but also being able to laugh at myself occasionally.
Matter of fact, I see so many here and in the chats make "fat jokes" about themselves, too. Part of me appreciates the humor but part of me cringes because I wonder if the person feels like they have to put themselves down or were truly enjoying their own humor?(I occasionally make my own fat cracks against myself and enjoy the surprised laughter I sometimes get from people) If you can make remarks about yourself and find it funny, why does an established comic taking crack shots at "stereo types" bother you? 
Just wanted to add that I see so many intelligent, witty, kind people here and that's what I enjoy most about this place, not just the "Fat acceptance".

Btw, I loved Shallow Hal. I found some of the "fat jokes" stupid but then again it was a comedy- have to take the jokes as they come. Shallow Hal not only centered on "Fat girls" but also other women not "considered as attractive" and burn victims. (remember?) It strove to break up stereo types and even portrayed fat and not conventionally beautiful people in a "beautiful light". Sure it didnt scream "FAT IS BEAUTIFUL" but instead said what someone looks like doesnt matter- it's who they are the makes them beautiful. I have to give that a *thumbs up*.


----------



## Wagimawr (Oct 7, 2006)

dan ex machina said:


> message of shallow hal is that you can learn to love a fatty if you're blind to what she actually looks like, and then you're too attached by the time you find out the truth to get nauseated by those unsightly chins and rolls. that's not size acceptance. that's teaching size tolerance, like a plea bargain or something.


Good call - I never bothered to watch the movie cause it struck me as just not funny.


----------



## Les Toil (Oct 7, 2006)

Regarding Shallow Hal,the ultimate message to fat people is basically, "You're unattractive but I'm noble enough to see beneath your ugly exterior". Hal even SAYS that at the end of the flick. We have to get to the place where we fully understand that the notion of fat being something ugly is nothing but a gross FALSEHOOD. Don't applaud Shallow Hal because the hero fell for the heroine in spite of her looks, applaud a movie that depicts the hero being hot for the heroine BECAUSE she's gorgeous inside and out. I mean, I was waiting for the fat girl to say "Thank you for loving me" at the end of Shallow Hal.

And the fat jokes were about as funny and as original as my grandma's shoehorn. In my opinion! 

What sucks about this new Eddie Murphy movie is many young closet FAs are going to see this movie playing at the mall and just go back home and sink deeper into the closet.


----------



## moncietron (Oct 7, 2006)

Did you know there's a personality that sticks up like a sore thumb upon fat people being better actors? I would probably see a million dollars after what I wrote during the years as people of extra size were treated as heroes just because they wouldn't let skinnier characters get away on being first. Hell, I've written more than half the characters being big on size just because you can't replace the class of muscle or garments that they wore. Most people have been said that the greatest people are the one's that revoked weakeness simply because they thought size didn't matter. In most cases, those that referred to slimmer being better were wrong. The Bigger you are in some, the stronger you make an opposing character look weak.


----------



## Fuzzy Necromancer (Nov 1, 2006)

Some day, movie-goers will attend a film where every role, including "second mortician" and "key grip", is played by eddie murphy.


----------



## William (Nov 1, 2006)

Hi 

What is sad is that once Eddie was funny, give me SNL reruns any day!!!

William




Fuzzy Necromancer said:


> Some day, movie-goers will attend a film where every role, including "second mortician" and "key grip", is played by eddie murphy.


----------



## Tooz (Nov 1, 2006)

"Don't applaud Shallow Hal because the hero fell for the heroine in spite of her looks, applaud a movie that depicts the hero being hot for the heroine BECAUSE she's gorgeous inside and out."

Well said.

My problem with this movie trailer is the fact that this fat woman is portrayed with a huge lack of grace. I HATE the misconception that fat people have no poise.


----------

