# Understanding the FA Movement



## Mr Objective (Feb 13, 2008)

This will probably piss everyone off but I don't care. My motto is "truth before harmony" so I am not one to mince words.

Let's start with reality. The fat acceptance movement is not a mainstream movement like the civil right movement. Agree? Disagree?

One prevailing sentiment and plank in the platform of the FA movement is that fat people even morbidly obese people are as healthy as lean people and if they are sick their excess body fat is rarely ever the cause? ?????

Is it a fair statement to say that fat acceptance movement believes that there is a lower limit for safe body fat meaning that is anorexics go below 10% for women and 4% for men they will suffer dire health issues but there is not limit of excessive body fat that can adversely effect the health of the obese?

I am conducting research for some articles about the obesity crisis in the US and I need clarification on the movement's position on high body fat and health.

I have asked this question of several fat activists and none of them would give me a straight answer. Often I am greeted with hostility for even broaching the subject. It seems like it is blasphemy just asking. I will be publishing an article on WLS and I know that FA is very involved with the topic of WLS and its dangers. I am hoping that a spokesperson and members of the FA community would like to answer the above questions. 

I have one more question. Is Big Fat Blog a parody site used to poke fun at fat people or are they for real. I can't tell.


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## Jes (Feb 13, 2008)

tell us more about yourself. what's your background? what's your agenda? do you like to dance? who are you writing for and why? i couldn't tell from your opening salvo. BFB is not mock-y.


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## CrankySpice (Feb 13, 2008)

No doubt you're nothing more than a trollkin...I have a difficult time believing you are an actual writer given your sentence structure and several spelling and grammar errors. I hope, at least, you have a decent editor.

Having said that, I will say that I have never heard anyone in the movement state the absolutes that you seem to be shoving into their mouths, although having remained source-less, I don't know with whom you've been speaking.

I will say, however, that my experience has shown that most people in the Size Acceptance movement aren't trying to prove that all fat people are healthy but rather that not all fat people are unhealthy. There's a HUGE difference between those two assumptions. 

Fat people and thin people can both suffer physical ailments that are often attributed strictly to being fat. That's a contradiction that most articles about the 'dangers of obesity' seem to want to overlook. Fat people with these ailments should be treated by the medical community IN THE SAME EXACT WAY a thin person with these ailments would be treated. Instead, they are often advised to lose weight--as though that is the miracle cure. If that were the case, ONLY fat people would suffer these ailments, and that's clearly not the case.


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## Fyreflyintheskye (Feb 13, 2008)




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## ripley (Feb 13, 2008)

Anyone who uses the words "obesity crisis" has their mind made up already. 

Mr. "Objective" my ass.


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## Fyreflyintheskye (Feb 13, 2008)

ripley said:


> Anyone who uses the words "obesity crisis" has their mind made up already.



"You must spread some Nutella around before giving it to Ripley again"
*
ahem
*
*
*


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## Tina (Feb 13, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> This will probably piss everyone off but I don't care. My motto is "truth before harmony" so I am not one to mince words.


You are misinformed and you obviously do not honor your "motto."


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## Mr Objective (Feb 13, 2008)

Jes said:


> tell us more about yourself. what's your background? what's your agenda? do you like to dance? who are you writing for and why? i couldn't tell from your opening salvo. BFB is not mock-y.



BFB is for real WOW! No shit? That is interesting to know. I thought is was spoof.

I am a free lance writer and photographer. A trade journal is seeking an article about the obesity crisis. Because I have some experience in engineering and sold medical equipment they wanted an article on obesity in the medical setting. The guidelines are still a bit up in the air right now so we are kinda fishing for ideas.

My CV is not all that impressive as I was a high school physical education teacher and wrestling coach most of my adult life. When I retired from teaching I sold medical equipment and fitness equipment just to keep busy.

I am still learning the writing trade so thank goodness for sympathetic editors and word processors.

What do you mean by salvo? All I did was ask a question and two responses that came back were disproportionate and impolite to say the least. 

There is no agenda. In my research so far I see that medical equipment does not always meet the needs of the morbidly obese. We may address those concerns in the article. Because the SA movement is hopped up about these issues I wanted to include some of their input in this series that I am co authoring with a medical engineer and psychologist. 

As you may know, some of today's equipment and devices are not manufactured to accommodate the morbidly obese and super morbidly obese. Some types of equipment cannot be designed to function on people above a certain size so their attitudes about their obesity is important for us to know.

While fat acceptance seems to be a fringe sort of movement its influence is felt in mainstream society. Many MDs complain about fat patients while many others are frustrated by the limitations of medical devices. In some cases in order to receive a proper dx and treatment patients need to lose weight. Many patients do not comply. Part of the series will be about non compliance and the attitudes of the obese and morbidly obese. We are seeking their input so that we can devise the best strategy to meet their medical needs. That is why we believe it is important to know what they think about health and how obesity effects it.


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## CAMellie (Feb 13, 2008)

ShakenBakeSharleen said:


> "You must spread some Nutella around before giving it to Ripley again"
> *
> ahem
> *
> ...



Oh yeah...I Repped her goooooooood! :batting:


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## Fyreflyintheskye (Feb 13, 2008)

CAMellie said:


> Oh yeah...I Repped her goooooooood! :batting:



I'm still tingly :happy:


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## Tina (Feb 13, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> \In some cases in order to receive a proper dx and treatment patients need to lose weight. Many patients do not comply. Part of the series will be about non compliance and the attitudes of the obese and morbidly obese. We are seeking their input so that we can devise the best strategy to meet their medical needs. That is why we believe it is important to know what they think about health and how obesity effects it.


Yes, I'm going to ignore the rest of your post, because I'm not sure I believe it, but check this out.

Have you ever known anyone who is naturally too skinny who has been ordered to gain weight who could actually do it to any real degree and keep it on? Throughout all of my childhood, and teen years, too, I had skinny friends. They all wanted to gain some weight. I wanted to lose it. We had the same activity level, but the difference is that some of them ate way more than me; others about the same. My best friend when I was in my later teen years, Ed, was skinny and ate like a horse to try to change that, to no avail. He got the stomach flu and lost 12 lbs in a couple of days. Obversely, for a month I was sick with some kind of food poisoning and could hardly eat a thing. At the end of the month I had gained 20 lbs.

People who think what they want to think believe that there are those in the world who are naturally skinny, but figure that all fat people are just pigs at the trough. This shows, IMO, a lack of common sense and an inherent bias.

Your use of the language implies you are already biased going in, so why should we help you?


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## Fyreflyintheskye (Feb 13, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> I have one more question.



yes, it is.


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## Sugar (Feb 13, 2008)

ripley said:


> Anyone who uses the words "obesity crisis" has their mind made up already.
> 
> Mr. "Objective" my ass.



Oh how I love her... :wubu:

Tonight 9ish, spooning, chat, be there!


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## BothGunsBlazing (Feb 13, 2008)

Why is this called "FA Movement" is this some way to say that BBW movement is an oxymoron or something?


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## altered states (Feb 13, 2008)

This guy is a writer like I'm a wrestling coach.


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## Tina (Feb 13, 2008)

BGB, I'm guessing he means Fat Acceptance movement.


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## altered states (Feb 13, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> Why is this so-called "FA Movement"?



I made one this morning. 

View attachment 180px-All-bran.cbx.jpg


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## BothGunsBlazing (Feb 13, 2008)

Tina said:


> BGB, I'm guessing he means Fat Acceptance movement.



 Well, I know. I was just thinking from the nature of his posts, that BBW & movement are something that usually don't go together too often. Think movement in the verb sense.


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## Mr Objective (Feb 13, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> Well, I know. I was just thinking from the nature of his posts, that BBW & movement are something that usually don't go together too often. Think movement in the verb sense.



I am not familiar with the BBW movement. Is there male version of it? I thought that the fat acceptance movement was all inclusive. Are you saying there is a separate movement exclusively for women? That is important because women in general have more encounters with medical persons and equipment than men. Also it is generally believed that women and girls have more issues with body image than men or boys and are often more modest but that may be changing.

One of the things that impacts patients are the gowns that they are given to wear prior to an examination of procedure. Those gowns tend to make one feel exposed to say the least. I would guess that a woman and more particularly a fat woman would feel vulnerable and and intimidated while wearing one.

How do you think that the reactions to medical situations vary between obese males and obese females?


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## Fascinita (Feb 13, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> Because I have some experience in engineering and sold medical equipment they wanted an article on obesity in the medical setting.



I remember a few years ago I signed on to write this freelance article for a bunch of nobodies, I have no idea who. Because I have been in a public school building a few times in my life, and because I used to sell cookies, they wanted an article about the safety of fire extinguishing protocols.

Like I said, I have no idea--so don't ask.

Oh, and my motto is "Ars longa, veritas brevis."


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## AnnMarie (Feb 13, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> One of the things that impacts patients are the gowns that they are given to wear prior to an examination of procedure. Those gowns tend to make one feel exposed to say the least. I would guess that a woman and more particularly a fat woman would feel vulnerable and and intimidated while wearing one.
> 
> How do you think that the reactions to medical situations vary between obese males and obese females?




Most modern, major medical offices and institutions now have gowns made to accommodate even the largest of patients. Also, patients can be their own best advocates - it's extremely easy to buy a gown that fits you and bring it along to your appointments.


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## James (Feb 13, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> That is important because women in general have more encounters with medical persons and equipment than men.


 
got any stats to back that up Mr "Objective" ?


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## Fyreflyintheskye (Feb 13, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> One of the things that impacts patients are the gowns that they are given to wear prior to an examination of procedure. Those gowns tend to make one feel exposed to say the least. I would guess that a woman and more particularly a fat woman would feel vulnerable and and intimidated while wearing one.



Are we talking back-closure gowns or front? I feel like a sexy minx in the front-tie ones, but there, again, I feel just as naughty with the ones that close in back... Hm... I'm thinking this thread could definitely appeal to the clothing and fashion board! :happy:


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## Fyreflyintheskye (Feb 13, 2008)

tres huevos said:


> I made one this morning.



I just LOL'ed so hard I spilled some lol on the floor!


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## Mr Objective (Feb 13, 2008)

In the judgment and view of the fat acceptance movement is it possible to be too skinny from a health stand point and at about where would you say that happens with an adult female in terms of percent body fat?

In the judgment and view of the fat acceptance movement is it possible to be too fat from a health stand point and at about where would you say that happens on with an adult female in terms of percent body fat?

Here is what medical experts say. In terms of body fat percentages an adult female needs to be over 10% and below 31%. What is the position of Fat Acceptance and what are your personal beliefs?


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## AnnMarie (Feb 13, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> In the judgment and view of the fat acceptance movement is it possible to be too skinny from a health stand point and at about where would you say that happens with an adult female in terms of percent body fat?
> 
> In the judgment and view of the fat acceptance movement is it possible to be too fat from a health stand point and at about where would you say that happens on with an adult female in terms of percent body fat?
> 
> Here is what medical experts say. In terms of body fat percentages an adult female needs to be over 10% and below 31%. What is the position of Fat Acceptance and what are your personal beliefs?



Just to be perfectly clear, no one here is the "spokesperson" for any movement of any kind. We're all just people, varying sizes of large, or "normal" who prefer large partners. 

Your questions posed this way lead me to believe you'll report anyone's response as speaking for a "movement". 

If you want answers like that, speak to NAAFA.org - they have people assigned to do just that job, have statistics at their finger tips, and I'm sure would be more than happy to get more face-time in the media. 

We're fat people living our lives, not subjects in a double-blind study, or brains for your picking. If people want to share their "opinions" on things, that's fine obviously, but your questions are so pointed, and prickly, that I can't imagine the answers being treated in the context they're being asked and answered - a very casual, informal message board of non-medical-professionals.


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## Smushygirl (Feb 13, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> In the judgment and view of the fat acceptance movement is it possible to be too skinny from a health stand point and at about where would you say that happens with an adult female in terms of percent body fat?
> 
> In the judgment and view of the fat acceptance movement is it possible to be too fat from a health stand point and at about where would you say that happens on with an adult female in terms of percent body fat?
> 
> Here is what medical experts say. In terms of body fat percentages an adult female needs to be over 10% and below 31%. What is the position of Fat Acceptance and what are your personal beliefs?



Ok, I'm just going to say what I don't think anyone else has said. 

1. On the home page of this forum, there are many articles about fat, some may even answer your questions.

2. You are using the wrong nomenclature, the movement you are asking about is called Size Acceptance, NOT Fat Acceptance. FA means something else here. It stands for Fat Admirer or Admiration.

3. You are on a mostly social board. Many people here do not agree on the price of rice here, let alone are we all in lockstep about size acceptance. This is mostly supposed to be a fun place. Most of the questions you are asking I and, I am sure, many here have no interest in or knowledge of. 

I would, as I said, check out the articles found on this site's home page or check out a more politically active size acceptance site. Have you tried contacting NAAFA? Have you tried contacting the owner of this site? Perhaps you are getting hostile responses because you are asking the wrong people.


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## Fyreflyintheskye (Feb 13, 2008)

Smushygirl said:


> Ok, I'm just going to say what I don't think anyone else has said.
> 
> 1. On the home page of this forum, there are many articles about fat, some may even answer your questions.
> 
> ...



 *you have given out too much love within the past 24 hours*

Grr. Damned sick days in with cabin fever. I will tag you tomorrow, for certain


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## wrestlingguy (Feb 13, 2008)

In terms of being "objective" vs. what Mr. Objective felt may have been a bit of hostility in the initial responses, one only has to look at the many people who have spent countless hours here over the years (I've been here on & off for nearly 10) talking with people about this "phenomenon" called size acceptance.

I would suggest that hanging around here for a week or so, asking questions of people who are VERY secure about who they are, physically, mentally, and spiritually, may come as a shock to someone who is uninitiated to this.

You may want to chat privately with some of the veterans here, many of who spend time in the chat rooms. Understanding this will not happen overnight......it didn't for the people who frequent this place, and it won't for you either. So, unless you're predisposed into thinking there is in fact an obesity "crisis", you should spend more time listening, and less time talking, like I did the first year I was here.

Class dismissed.


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## Mr Objective (Feb 13, 2008)

James said:


> got any stats to back that up Mr "Objective" ?



Yes.

http://www.ajph.org/cgi/reprint/93/7/1076.pdf
http://www.parentprofiles.com/pregnancy-articles/why-so-many-prenatal-visits
http://www.obesityresearch.org/cgi/content/full/13/9/1615
http://men.webmd.com/news/20070620/why-men-skip-doctor-visits

Men avoid doctor visits far more than women, lest they appear weak or out of control. Thus, they often neglect getting recommended routine screening tests for blood sugar and cholesterol that can indicate increased heart disease risks. "Women visit doctors more, and they tend to be more compliant and willing to follow their doctors' orders. They are more caregivers for their children and themselves, inscribed in their DNA," he says.

http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/1031002509.html

From the cdc http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/PRESSROOM/01news/newstudy.htm

Men avoid doctors it is a well known fact but it think you already know that. It's common knowledge.


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## Observer (Feb 13, 2008)

Suggestion: Assuming you truly are a writer doing research, why not do everyone (yourself especially) a favor by by reading some of the books written by and for fat people? 

If you did this you would find out that many heavier people are not physically sick from actual health problems; we are however sick and tired of having to deal with stereotypes and assumptions from the non-obese. Then you might be able to express yourself in a less presumptive manner. Right now your approach comes across as very arrogant and ignorant.

For starters, the term "morbid obesity" is used for anyone 20% over the presumably ideal weight charts. It implies we should be at death's door - which is hardly the case.

Secondly you would not make the error of charging in here quoting statistics and numbers you assume are benchmarks that none of us have ever heard of - even after decades of experience. Why not do some research around the NAAFA.org website and get some perspective? Then when you use numbers at least quote your sources.

Thirdly, why not interview some happily married fat people and find out how we really think and live? It might change your view - we don't really think about our size or eat that much; we have lives, hobbies and concerns very much like everyone else. The vast majority of us certainly have no need of special medical appliances.

I'm sorry, if you are not really as obtuse as you seem, if we come across as a little hostile - but many of us have just about had it with the anti-fat hostility in many parts of today's society.


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## Mr Objective (Feb 13, 2008)

Smushygirl said:


> Ok, I'm just going to say what I don't think anyone else has said.
> 
> 1. On the home page of this forum, there are many articles about fat, some may even answer your questions.
> 
> ...



I will read that but I am interested what you think and if people in the movement see it the same as the leadership.

I have looked at the naffa site and they call what they do fat acceptance hence National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance. Is there a separate movement that does not make a distinction that promotes acceptance of people of all sizes. I know that in sales it has been proven that tall people do better than short ones.


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## Mr Objective (Feb 13, 2008)

Observer said:


> Suggestion: Assuming you truly are a writer doing research, why not do everyone (yourself especially) a favor by by reading some of the books written by and for fat people?
> 
> If you did this you would find out that many heavier people are not physically sick from actual health problems; we are however sick and tired of having to deal with stereotypes and assumptions from the non-obese. Then you might be able to express yourself in a less presumptive manner. Right now your approach comes across as very arrogant and ignorant.
> 
> ...




According to the National Institutes of Health (NIH), a person is considered "obese" when he or she weighs 20 percent or more than his or her ideal body weight. At that point, the person's weight poses a real health risk. Obesity becomes "morbid" when it significantly increases the risk of one or more obesity-related health conditions or serious diseases (also known as co-morbidities). Morbid obesitysometimes called "clinically severe obesity"is defined as being 100 lbs. or more over ideal body weight or having a Body Mass Index (BMI) of 40 or higher.

According to the NIH Consensus Report, morbid obesity is a serious chronic disease, meaning that its symptoms build slowly over an extended period of time. Today 97 million Americans, more than one-third of the adult population, are overweight or obese. An estimated 5-10 million of those are considered morbidly obese.

Super morbid obesity is defined by a BMI of 50 and super super morbid obesity is defined by a BMI of 60 or greater. I don't even think there is an ICD-9 code for that.

Medical manufacturers a scrambling to build equipment do meet the need of the obesity crisis but the FDA has lots of red tape to contend with and much needed medical equipment is being delayed and this article illustrates. The US population of morbidly obese, super morbidly obese and super super morbidly obese is growing faster than the overweight and obese and I don't think it is wrong to call this a crisis because it is becoming more and more difficult to deliver the medical care that the extremely obese require. *It is indeed a medical crisis* and it is something we are writing about.

As U.S. Obesity Rate Grows, Extreme Obesity Grows 3 Times Faster
By Daniel J. DeNoon
WebMD Medical News
Reviewed by Louise Chang, MD

April 9, 2007 -- The U.S. obesity rate is growing fast -- but the rate of extreme, morbid obesity is growing three times faster, a RAND study shows.

Obesity means having a BMI (body mass index, a ratio of weight to height) of 30 or higher. Severe obesity -- also called morbid obesity -- begins at a BMI of 40. That's a weight of about 235 for a person who is 5 feet 4 inches tall and a weight of about 280 for a person 5 feet 10 inches tall.

Even more extremely obese people have a BMI of 50 or more: a weight of about 292 pounds for that 5-foot-4 person and about 350 pounds for that 5-foot-10 person.

RAND economist Roland Sturm, PhD, looked at data from a telephone survey of American households. He found some shocking numbers -- especially as people in self-report studies tend to say they weigh less than they really do.

From 2000 to 2005, Sturm found, the U.S. obesity rate increased by 24%. But the rate of severe obesity increased even faster. The number of people with a BMI over 40 grew by 50% -- twice as fast. The number of people with a BMI over 50 grew 75% -- three times as fast.

Doctors, Sturm says, tend to think of morbid obesity as a relatively rare problem that affects a consistently small percentage of the population. But the new findings suggest this isn't so.

Sturm calculates that the percentage of people who suffer morbid obesity grows disproportionately as the population as a whole becomes more and more overweight. That means that even the huge increase in bariatric surgery -- with an estimated 200,000 stomach-reducing procedures in 2006 -- won't have a public health impact.

"The explosion in the use of bariatric surgery has made no noticeable dent in the trend of morbid obesity," Sturm said in a news release.

Everybody knows that exercising more and eating less helps us control our weight. But that isn't easy to do -- especially in our modern environment.

"Car-friendly (and bike/pedestrian-hostile) urban developments, desk jobs, television viewing, and relatively cheap calorie-dense foods" are major factors in the U.S. obesity epidemic, Sturm says. "Environmental interventions to counter the obesity epidemic, similar to tobacco and alcohol policy, would be needed."

However, Sturm notes that such policies are not likely to be enacted in the near future.

Sturm's study will appear later this year in the journal Public Health.
View Article Sources Sources

SOURCES: Sturm, R. Public Health, 2007, in press. News release, RAND Corporation.
© 2007 WebMD, Inc. All rights reserved.


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## Jon Blaze (Feb 13, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> I will read that but I am interested what you think and if people in the movement see it the same as the leadership.
> 
> I have looked at the naffa site and they call what they do fat acceptance hence National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance. Is there a separate movement that does not make a distinction that promotes acceptance of people of all sizes. I know that in sales it has been proven that tall people do better than short ones.



Look: There's a separate movement for admiration of fat partners exclusively or not called Fat Admiration. That has nothing to do with accepting people of all sizes, and yes: Some people in this movement aren't accepting of people of all sizes.

Size Acceptance, for the most part is about that. "Body Acceptance" is in the same coin.

Fat Acceptance: It's true that more often than not, that movement has a lean towards fat people, but thin hatred is NOT a standard for any of these (A), and some believe that it's about your own personal view of the fat on your body (Which we all have: B). You're assuming it's about attacking thin people, when that's rarely ever true.

This board is sort of an ecletic mix of all them, albeit predominantly immerse in Fat Admiration, so I don't think you're looking at the right source. Check the "Fatosphere" series of blogs, and as everyone else said; Ask NAAFA. the ISAA would be a good bet too. Email them, and ask them questions. They have people that will answer you.


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## CAMellie (Feb 13, 2008)

This thread gives me the heebie-jeebies. Does anyone have a huff I can borrow? I wanna storm out of here. :blush:


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## rainyday (Feb 13, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> My CV is not all that impressive as I was a high school physical education teacher and wrestling coach most of my adult life. When I retired from teaching I sold medical equipment and fitness equipment just to keep busy.



You'd be surprised how often we run across extremely fitness-oriented men who have a fascination and lust for the bodies of fat women. Or maybe not. The more closeted ones usually arrive with attitudes similar to yours, and more often than not it's acceptance of themselves that needs the most researching.

No clue if this applies to you or not. Your tone just strikes me as remarkably similar to those who've preceded you.


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## Fyreflyintheskye (Feb 13, 2008)

CAMellie said:


> This thread gives me the heebie-jeebies. Does anyone have a huff I can borrow? I wanna storm out of here. :blush:




I don't have any huff
*
*
*
but I know someone who may!


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## Fyreflyintheskye (Feb 13, 2008)

rainyday said:


> You'd be surprised how often we run across extremely fitness-oriented men who have a fascination and lust for the bodies of fat women. Or maybe not. The more closeted ones usually arrive with attitudes similar to yours, and more often than not it is acceptance of themselves that needs the most researching.
> 
> No clue if this applies to you or not. Your tone just strikes me as remarkably similar to those who've preceded you.



my noggin was kind of dancing around that notion, too, Miss :smitten: but now I think he just wants someone to write his book report for him


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## TallFatSue (Feb 13, 2008)

Observer said:


> Suggestion: Assuming you truly are a writer doing research, why not do everyone (yourself especially) a favor by by reading some of the books written by and for fat people?





Mr Objective said:


> I will read that but I am interested what you think and if people in the movement see it the same as the leadership.


You say you'll read them, but you won't. Get up and do it now! 

Mr Objective kinda reminds me of some of the people I work with, who repeatedly ask me questions about stuff they can easily look up for themselves. Why? Because it's even easier to ask someone else to give them the answers. And then they wonder why we won't pay them the big bucks. 

And then Mr. Objective posts a big long article to bore us with, as if we aren't already bombarded with baloney like that. Is he here to question us or preach to us? Methinx I've already spent enough time in this topic. Exit stage right.


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## Smushygirl (Feb 13, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> I will read that but I am interested what you think and if people in the movement see it the same as the leadership.
> 
> I have looked at the naffa site and they call what they do fat acceptance hence *National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance*. Is there a separate movement that does not make a distinction that promotes acceptance of people of all sizes. I know that in sales it has been proven that tall people do better than short ones.



I believe I said that *here* we call it size acceptance and that FA means something different *here*. There are people *here* of all sizes so like I said there is no group think. Very few people *here* practice market research or constantly cite statistics. There are a few, perhaps they will PM you. 

Your questions are so bizarre, it's hard to believe what kind of article you are writing.


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## CAMellie (Feb 13, 2008)

ShakenBakeSharleen said:


> I don't have any huff
> *
> *
> *
> but I know someone who may!



KING JULIEN! I r happy nowz! :blush:


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## Fyreflyintheskye (Feb 13, 2008)

Smushygirl said:


> I believe I said that *here* we call it size acceptance and that FA means something different *here*. There are people *here* of all sizes so like I said there is no group think. Very few people *here* practice market research or constantly cite statistics. There are a few, perhaps they will PM you.
> 
> Your questions are so bizarre, it's hard to believe what kind of article you are writing.




I think what we have to do is sit him down, wave a magic wand above his head, and say, "Hocus pocus, try to focus!" and swat him with it. Really hard.
*
*
it could work.
*
*
:doh:


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## GWARrior (Feb 13, 2008)

I just read this whole thread... and theres no bewb pix.


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## Smushygirl (Feb 13, 2008)

ShakenBakeSharleen said:


> I think what we have to do is sit him down, wave a magic wand above his head, and say, "Hocus pocus, try to focus!" and swat him with it. Really hard.
> *
> *
> it could work.
> ...



SHAR!!! It is so good to see you posting so much *here*!!!! :wubu:


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## Fyreflyintheskye (Feb 13, 2008)

GWARrior said:


> I just read this whole thread... and theres no bewb pix.



fwhat?! I put some cleavage on el pagina dos! See?


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## GWARrior (Feb 13, 2008)

ShakenBakeSharleen said:


> fwhat?! I put some cleavage on el pagina dos! See?



:doh: im an eejit. i even commented to myself about the hotness of the pic. BUT WUT ABOUT UR NIPPLEZZZZ???


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## Littleghost (Feb 13, 2008)

ShakenBakeSharleen said:


>



Is that a plucked chicken with a butcher knife on that stick??? Seriously.


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## Laina (Feb 13, 2008)

Littleghost said:


> Is that a plucked chicken with a butcher knife on that stick??? Seriously.



I feel so unimaginative. I just thought someone was holding the tray. 

I like your version so much better!


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## RedVelvet (Feb 13, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> This will probably piss everyone off but I don't care. My motto is "truth before harmony" so I am not one to mince words.
> 
> Let's start with reality. The fat acceptance movement is not a mainstream movement like the civil right movement. Agree? Disagree?
> 
> ...





Do you realize that your tone is hostile?

That you are showing up, saying "gimmie, now, and I'm so removed from this I can't even tell if this blog is parody or not..."

Is it working for you so far?

Not sure if we are so organized that we even have defined planks in our platform, btw.....I doubt that anyone here would think someone is healthy regardless of how much fat that they carry, or that fat has no health consequences. I think most might say there are limits to things, and that wilst a number of health related issues can be related to being fat, the hysteria around trying to assign blame of fat on everything health related is both stupid and unhelpful.

i would also dare to say that most people in the movement think diets don't work very well.....and in spite of endless admonitions, eating little and exercising a lot isnt a sure fire way to thin-dom for everyone.

Really...again....your tone was SO hostile and superior, thats rather more than you deserve in the way of answers.


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## wrestlingguy (Feb 13, 2008)

RedVelvet said:


> Do you realize that your tone is hostile?
> 
> That you are showing up, saying "gimmie, now, and I'm so removed from this I can't even tell if this blog is parody or not..."
> 
> ...



I wish that I could give you rep for this post, but I will say that is is even better than my response to him. Thanks for getting to the point.


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## Mr Objective (Feb 13, 2008)

TallFatSue said:


> You say you'll read them, but you won't. Get up and do it now!
> 
> Mr Objective kinda reminds me of some of the people I work with, who repeatedly ask me questions about stuff they can easily look up for themselves. Why? Because it's even easier to ask someone else to give them the answers. And then they wonder why we won't pay them the big bucks.
> 
> And then Mr. Objective posts a big long article to bore us with, as if we aren't already bombarded with baloney like that. Is he here to question us or preach to us? Methinx I've already spent enough time in this topic. Exit stage right.



I have the NAAFA stuff and they are very vague. Besides I would rather here the opinion of people than a statement from an organization, 

The question is really simple and it does not have a right or wrong answer. I am just asking people what they think. I don't know what to think about why people are reluctant to answer. 

This is not an answer anyone can easily look up because it has to do with attitudes and beliefs more than the policy of an organization. 

Maybe if I put it another way. 

Do you think it is possible to have too little body fat in order to be healthy?

Do you think it is possible to have too much body fat?

I checked NAAFA and ISSA and they aren't saying.


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## TraciJo67 (Feb 13, 2008)

RedVelvet said:


> Do you realize that your tone is hostile?
> 
> That you are showing up, saying "gimmie, now, and I'm so removed from this I can't even tell if this blog is parody or not..."
> 
> ...



And here I was, just about to hire him as an independent consultant for my new company ... Drive-By Finger Waggers R Us. 

Because if *anyone* is an expert at subtle hostility and verbal abuse wrapped up in a blanket of seemingly impartial "facts 'n figgures" ... it's this guy. Sir, I must have you, at any cost.


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## Mr Objective (Feb 13, 2008)

RedVelvet said:


> Do you realize that your tone is hostile?
> 
> That you are showing up, saying "gimmie, now, and I'm so removed from this I can't even tell if this blog is parody or not..."
> 
> ...



Where would you put that number of fat percentage where ill health begins?


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## TraciJo67 (Feb 13, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> Where would you put that number of fat percentage where ill health begins?



Well, Mr. Objective, I know that you didn't ask me this question, but since I'm a Medical Doctor *and* I play one on TV, I'll take a stab at it. 

Most definitively, ill health begins when one's head becomes fatter than the space between most standard doorframes. And yes, I do take walk-in appointments, as I'm sure this is most unwelcome news to you.


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## RedVelvet (Feb 13, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> Where would you put that number of fat percentage where ill health begins?



Doncha think that might be a case by case basis, based on fitness level, age, etc, Mr. Warmth?

Wow. Ok.

Either you are a troll, or so lacking in social skills as to be one by default.

You and me? We are all done here.


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## pudgy (Feb 13, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> Do you think it is possible to have too little body fat in order to be healthy?
> 
> Do you think it is possible to have too much body fat?



I skip the arguments and just answer.

1) Yes, it's obviously possible to have too little body fat.
2) Yes, it's possible to have too much body fat?

Happy?


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## ripley (Feb 13, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> I have the NAAFA stuff and they are very vague. Besides I would rather here the opinion of people than a statement from an organization,
> 
> The question is really simple and it does not have a right or wrong answer. I am just asking people what they think. I don't know what to think about why people are reluctant to answer.



So you want to "here" our opinions, so in your article you can say "Joe Fattypants, random person from the internet, thinks that you can never be too big, that it doesn't impact health. HAHAHAHAHAHA, what a dumb fat schmuck!"

People are reluctant to answer because:

1) your mind is made up already
2) you don't appear very intelligent
3) you're hostile, patronizing, lazy, and your "science" is wonky

And for me personally, number four: I do not see any value that random fat people's opinions about when fat impacts health has to do with your stated article's topic. As AnnMarie said, none of us is a spokesperson for any movement, and if you asked us all you would get a different answer from each of us. 

Instead of being so pushy, why don't you read Big Fat Lies by Dr. Glen Gaesser, or The Obesity Myth by Paul Campos.


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## Blackjack (Feb 14, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> I have the NAAFA stuff and they are very vague. Besides I would rather here the opinion of people than a statement from an organization,





Mr Objective said:


> *In the judgment and view of the fat acceptance movement *is it possible to be too skinny from a health stand point and at about where would you say that happens with an adult female in terms of percent body fat?
> 
> *In the judgment and view of the fat acceptance movement *is it possible to be too fat from a health stand point and at about where would you say that happens on with an adult female in terms of percent body fat?
> 
> Here is what medical experts say. In terms of body fat percentages an adult female needs to be over 10% and below 31%. *What is the position of Fat Acceptance *and what are your personal beliefs?



I also have to state that if you're a writer, I sincerely hope that you put more effort into your articles and essays than you do in your posts here, because your grammar, punctuation, and spelling are severely lacking.


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## liz (di-va) (Feb 14, 2008)

Real journalists give you their creds and tell you (specifically) for whom they're writing. Among other things this guy isn't doing. Including not getting that BFB is a real site, when it is constantly cited in the media.


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## RedVelvet (Feb 14, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> And here I was, just about to hire him as an independent consultant for my new company ... Drive-By Finger Waggers R Us.
> 
> Because if *anyone* is an expert at subtle hostility and verbal abuse wrapped up in a blanket of seemingly impartial "facts 'n figgures" ... it's this guy. Sir, I must have you, at any cost.





Promise me someday we will meet. My life will be so beautiful then.


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## Mr Objective (Feb 14, 2008)

rainyday said:


> You'd be surprised how often we run across extremely fitness-oriented men who have a fascination and lust for the bodies of fat women. Or maybe not. The more closeted ones usually arrive with attitudes similar to yours, and more often than not it's acceptance of themselves that needs the most researching.
> 
> No clue if this applies to you or not. Your tone just strikes me as remarkably similar to those who've preceded you.



I am not a fitness nut unless you call working out 3 or for times a week extreme. 

My wife is a strict practitioner of CRON so her BMI is 19. Like most men my natural proclivity is for women with BMI of 18.5 to 22. You know what I mean, like the ones you see in Playboy Magazine. I like a curvy but athletic look. Sort of the Greek ideal of beauty ie. healthy looking.


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## pudgy (Feb 14, 2008)

Again, you're looking down on us! "Like most men my natural proclivity..." is towards society's norms! Well aren't you proud of yourself! Why do you have this necessity to make yourself sound so much better than anyone?


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## NancyGirl74 (Feb 14, 2008)

****Deleted!****


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## RedVelvet (Feb 14, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> Like most men my natural proclivity is for women with BMI of 18.5 to 22. You know what I mean, like the ones you see in Playboy Magazine.



Ah...so you like them with fake boobies, covered in body makeup and airbrushed.


That clears up a lot.






And now I really AM done.


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## Laina (Feb 14, 2008)

RedVelvet said:


> Ah...so you like them with fake boobies, covered in body makeup and airbrushed.
> 
> 
> That clears up a lot.
> ...



Airbrushed=healthy, didn't you know?


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## Mr Objective (Feb 14, 2008)

RedVelvet said:


> Doncha think that might be a case by case basis, based on fitness level, age, etc, Mr. Warmth?
> 
> Wow. Ok.
> 
> ...



I don't think body fat percentage is on an individual basis by more than plus or minus a few percentage points.

I have asked a very benign question that merely seeks an opinion for an answer. By the over the top reactions i got from that FAIR question would think I had walked into a church and questioned the existence of God.


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## pudgy (Feb 14, 2008)

No, it would be the equivalent of walking into a church and declaring bin Laden the messiah. And explaning how God obviously didn't exist because you can't see Him, touch Him, feel Him, etc. In other words, you came in blissfully ignorant and appear to want to stay that way, because despite people's warning towards you and THOUSANDS of posts that answer your questions and baises, you still say things that (purposely) piss people off.

Keep in mind we also asked FAIR questions. Who are you writing for? Where are getting your "information"? How are you a writer and yet write so poorly? You can't stomp onto a board and start asking questions without some kind of rapport with your audience. 

I'm done.


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## RedVelvet (Feb 14, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> I don't think body fat percentage is on an individual basis by more than plus or minus a few percentage points.
> 
> I have asked a very benign question that merely seeks an opinion for an answer. By the over the top reactions i got from that FAIR question would think I had walked into a church and questioned the existence of God.




MUST.....RESIST.......MUST......RESIST...


aw fuck..I cant....


The fact that you cant see its not the QUESTIONS you have asked, but your tone, arrogant demeanor and writing style that is pissing people off is really fucking amazing, Sport.

It's like you are missing pieces.....and your absolute refusal to understand this is wearying to the point of ridiculous. 

Obtuse on a level that is staggering, really. Your lack of rapport a certain sign of doom to your supposed profession.

But really, this is all bullshite. You know what you believe....we are not needed in your eyes. Even if someone responded to your unbelievably callous self with a reasoned, thoughtful response, it is obvious you would leave, decide we are all nuts, and write whateverthefuck you want anyway.

You had it in your first sentence posted....and then made sure it happened, and are now claiming "who me?...Im just asking QUESTIONS!".

Christ....why AM I bothering.....must stop.


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## Mr Objective (Feb 14, 2008)

RedVelvet said:


> Ah...so you like them with fake boobies, covered in body makeup and airbrushed.
> 
> 
> That clears up a lot.
> ...



I like women with lean bodies. I don't care if they wear make up. I just prefer healthy looking and physically fit women. Like this
http://cache.eb.com/eb/image?id=68712&rendTypeId=4


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## Tina (Feb 14, 2008)

Is that what you came here to tell us? Your welcome will be officially worn out in 5... 4... 3... 2... *poof!*


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## Laina (Feb 14, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> I like women with lean bodies. I don't care if they wear make up. I just prefer healthy looking and physically fit women.



And I don't. What's your point?

No, seriously, is there one?


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## RedVelvet (Feb 14, 2008)

Why thank you Tina!


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## Observer (Feb 14, 2008)

Yes, methinks Mr Objective has now shown himself to be anything but . . .

This is no more a research for an article thread than it is a treatise on moonwalking.


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## RedVelvet (Feb 14, 2008)

Observer said:


> Yes, methinks Mr Objective has now shown himself to be anything but . . .
> 
> This is no more a research for an article thread than it is a treatise on moonwalking.




Well....I object to his presence here.....that much of the name is right.....again..thank you Tina!


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## Observer (Feb 14, 2008)

She's gone nighty nite but you're welcome. He won't be back.


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## TallFatSue (Feb 14, 2008)

Tina said:


> Is that what you came here to tell us? Your welcome will be officially worn out in 5... 4... 3... 2... *poof!*


Well done. Wish I could do this in person sometimes. In my role as an office manager I deal with Mr. Observer types semi-regularly, so I sensed something was up with him right away. This type of person seems nice at first, as if he is genuinely qualified and capable and wants to learn or help, but before long the hidden agenda becomes apparent. 

Come to think of it, I have made a few Mr. Observer types go *poof* in person. The most obvious example was one guy on my staff who turned out to be passive aggressive, and managed to knew how to push everyone's buttons and disrupt our operations, but somehow never quite crossed the line. Mr. Passive-Aggressive usually backed up his positions with impressive-sounding statistics or studies, which afterward turned out to be false or skewed. Sounds kinda like Mr. Observer eh?

Then one fine day Mr. Passive-Aggressive cited some statistics which I absolutely positively knew were false, so I politely but firmly challenged his position. That must have been a new experience for him. Soon he exploded, yelled "I quit", walked out of the meeting and left the building! So I seized that golden opportunity to eliminate him without technically firing him. The next day he returned as if nothing had happened, and our personnel manager informed him that we had accepted his resignation. As he cleaned out his office under close supervision (we had made sure to disconnect his computer) someone asked what he was doing. "That big fat-ass Sue fired me!" Our personnel manager corrected him. "No, she didn't. You resigned in front of 6 witnesses."

That entire episode tore me up at the time, so I went on a major chocolate bender. But after that jerk was baniushed, office morale skyrocketed. I knew he was a drag on our work environment in more ways than one, but only then did I realize how pervasive it was. Likewise the timely departure of Mr. Observer should raise morale around here too. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again. What I absolutely positive love about being as fat as I am is that it has taught me what is and is not truly important in life, how to see past the obvious, and how to think independently and creatively. My physical size is also very useful in the workplace, as it gives me an aura of authority so I can keep our office staff on track without being overly pushy, and my curvy jiggly fat provides a warm and comforting presence too. My husband also loves to massage me, and I won't say no to that! Mr. Observer might not believe it, but obesity has probably made me a better person. Any health risks and logistical problems caused by all this fat are probably more than offset by my generally positive attitude and excellent quality of life. 

But of course Mr. Observer has already made up his mind, despite his claims that he wants to edumicate himself. When I find one of his ilk in the road of life, I remember this quotation:


> "In the fevered state of our country, no good can ever result from any attempt to set one of these fiery zealots to rights, either in fact or principle. They are determined as to the facts they will believe, and the opinions on which they will act. Get by them, therefore, as you would by an angry bull; it is not for a man of sense to dispute the road with such an animal." -- President Thomas Jefferson, Washington, 24 November 1808, in a letter to his grandson Thomas Jefferson Randolph.



PS. I note that Mr. Observer likes women with thin athletic bodies who look emaciated. Luckily for them they also look like they can easily outrun him.


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## TraciJo67 (Feb 14, 2008)

Chumpmeister sent me a PM, questioning my assertion that I'm an MD. The nerve! He issued the following challenge:

_OK then what is DRG, BMP and BPV?

I could ambush you on the board but I don't do that sort of thing.

If you really are an MD then you know the truth._

Since I really *am* an MD, *and* I play one on TV, my response:

DRG = diagnostic related group
BMP = bone morphogenetic protein
BPV = benign positional vertigo

And now that I've passed your little test, and proven that I truly *am* a doctor (and not some average schmoe with access to freakin' GOOGLE), I'm going to give you some free medical advise.

That gigantic, fleshy protuberance dangling from your ass is not a hemmorhoid. It's your head, and it really should be removed surgically.


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## Tina (Feb 14, 2008)

You're most welcome, RV. Sometimes giving someone new a chance pays off, sometimes they just become fodder for (well deserved) rotten tomatoes before they get banned. This guy was the latter.

I like that story, Sue. All it can take is one negative person in the workplace to bring everyone down. Sounds like he was a stone around peoples' necks. BTW, His 'name' was Mr. Objective. We have an Observer here -- two very different posters.


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## TraciJo67 (Feb 14, 2008)

Sigh. So, I'm busted. I'm really not a doctor. Truly, I just play one on TV. 

Was fun, until my operating privileges were revoked.


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## Tina (Feb 14, 2008)

I figured maybe you had a Doctorate.


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## TraciJo67 (Feb 14, 2008)

Tina said:


> I figured maybe you had a Doctorate.



I do, but it's in Tom Foolery, which really only counts in Minnesota.


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## RedVelvet (Feb 14, 2008)

You slay me, girl. For serious.


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## prickly (Feb 14, 2008)

........i mean, how basic....BMP is a DJ term for "beats minutes per". who the fuck doesn't know that?


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## Jes (Feb 14, 2008)

Mr Objective said:


> I will read that but I am interested what you think and if people in the movement see it the same as the leadership.
> .



I'm fully comfortable talking about all of this and I invite you to contact me for an interview. I do charge for my time, though, at a very conservative rate of $40/hour (the rate I charge for my high-end freelance clients). I'm available via PM here at Dims.

eta: shit, really? he's gone? and i'm not gonna get my money? I was all ready to share my paypal info...

and prickly, i won't get into it, but it's academic in nature. And $40 ain't nothing. I know people who do translations for corporate clients who get $80 and up per hour, standard. And, of course, lawyers and consultants can make a LOT. I once made $1200 for 4 hours of work, but that was a fluke and I felt horrible about it, actually. So, drinks are on me tomorrow night at happy hour!


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## prickly (Feb 14, 2008)

........40 bucks an hour? what do it get to do, er, i mean ask?


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## mossystate (Feb 14, 2008)

No fear...he will be back..and snicker over how he got folks out here all riled up..............a television commercial was playing as I typed this..something about recycling.....rinse, repeat....


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## pudgy (Feb 15, 2008)

This is neither here nor there, but your post, Mossy, reminded me of that book _White Noise_ by Don DeLillo where the narrator throws in random bits of what the television is saying.

My apologies to all those who saw something new on this thread, only to read this.


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## RedVelvet (Feb 15, 2008)

pudgy said:


> This is neither here nor there, but your post, Mossy, reminded me of that book _White Noise_ by Don DeLillo where the narrator throws in random bits of what the television is saying.
> 
> My apologies to all those who saw something new on this thread, only to read this.



Ah...but if you are seeing what she is writing as....random.....you are missing a lot.


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## pudgy (Feb 15, 2008)

Which was the point of the book too! We are sooo on the save wavelength!


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## RedVelvet (Feb 15, 2008)

pudgy said:


> Which was the point of the book too! We are sooo on the save wavelength!



Heh....I know you were being sarcastic...but I have read the book.


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## TallFatSue (Feb 15, 2008)

Observer said:


> Sue - Please! I'm Observer, and I'm oneiof the good guys!
> 
> The proper name of the bad guy you were referencing was Mr. Objective!


D'oh! I stand corrected! :doh:

Sure glad it's Friday. 

Sue


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## stefanie (Feb 15, 2008)

Awww, a troll, and I missed him. I especially liked the part where he was whining about how *mean* everyone was being.

*Rainyday*, I think you "named" him. It's like a guy walking into a gay bar, checking out the men, while at the same time going on about how straight he is, would you like to see a picture of my girlfriend, blah blah. I mean, the photo of the woman runner - that was overkill, IMO.


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## Zoom (Feb 16, 2008)

(oops, my post was too much like the last one.)

If there's one thing I don't like, it's when someone claims to be objective and backs up all his claims with propaganda instead.

Unlike Dracula (thanks for your article link Ned), he came here uninvited trying to change our opinions. However, we have too much at stake.


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## RedVelvet (Feb 16, 2008)

stefanie said:


> Awww, a troll, and I missed him. I especially liked the part where he was whining about how *mean* everyone was being.
> 
> *Rainyday*, I think you "named" him. It's like a guy walking into a gay bar, checking out the men, while at the same time going on about how straight he is, would you like to see a picture of my girlfriend, blah blah. I mean, the photo of the woman runner - that was overkill, IMO.




Cuz really..nothing looks more like a playboy bunny (see above) than a whipcord slender, yet highly muscular, 6% body fat, small chested uber-athlete.


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