# Do FAs Understand Fatties?



## Fascinita (Oct 26, 2008)

Many people on the boards report on what it's like to be fat: the constant well-meaning intrusions and unwanted suggestions for losing weight... the physical realities of being fat (both positive and negative)... the forced invisibility and de-sexualization (or oversexualization) of fat... the random insults shouted from passing cars... the toils of finding clothing that fits...

Clearly being fat is frequently a unique, complicated experience of itself, with both many wonderful highs and a number of disheartening lows.

My question for FAs is: How do you show your understanding of fat people's unique experiences, in your relationships with fat people? How does someone's experience of being fat play into and determine your relationship with them, and how do you respond to this? Are you more accommodating? Can you sympathize fully with the fat experience, or does it remain essentially foreign to you? ...............................................Or?


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## KendraLee (Oct 26, 2008)

WOW, Amazing question. I can't wait to read the responses


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## imfree (Oct 26, 2008)

I empathize, understand, and live fat, myself, so I
live and know much of how my partner feels. I
don't expect her to live in a way that I can't live,
myself. I really wouldn't encourage her or anyone
else to be as obese as I am. I have limited mobility,
but it really doesn't bother me that much, since I
can be free in a small circuit board or at the 
computer.


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## olwen (Oct 26, 2008)

These are exactly the kind of questions I've been wondering too. I too can't wait to hear the responses.


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## imfree (Oct 26, 2008)

KendraLee said:


> WOW, Amazing question. I can't wait to read the responses


 
A very rep-worthy post, indeed! Sorry.


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## bmann0413 (Oct 26, 2008)

I can sympathize with it. Most of the folks in my family are overweight (me too somewhat), so I've seen how some overweight people can feel when they don't like being fat. For example, my sister. I constantly tell her that she's okay, but she constantly knocks herself down saying that she's ugly. I mean, some of you have seen her! She's definitely not ugly, but I guess because I'm her brother, she doesn't believe me.


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## Chimpi (Oct 26, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Many people on the boards report on what it's like to be fat: the constant well-meaning intrusions and unwanted suggestions for losing weight... the physical realities of being fat (both positive and negative)... the forced invisibility and de-sexualization (or oversexualization) of fat... the random insults shouted from passing cars... the toils of finding clothing that fits...
> 
> Clearly being fat is frequently a unique, complicated experience of itself, with both many wonderful highs and a number of disheartening lows.
> 
> My question for FAs is: How do you show your understanding of fat people's unique experiences, in your relationships with fat people? How does someone's experience of being fat play into and determine your relationship with them, and how do you respond to this? Are you more accommodating? Can you sympathize fully with the fat experience, or does it remain essentially foreign to you? ...............................................Or?



*How do you show your understanding of fat people's unique experiences in your relationship with fat people?*
That's kind of a hard question to answer. You'd be better asking that question to those people that have been in relationships with "Fat Admirers." Personally, I think I listen very well, I give advice when I know what to say and where applicable, I understand where she comes from (although not to as large of an extent I don't think) and I respect her views and experiences. Everyone is not a tank when it comes to emotions molded by other people's comments and actions. I try to help as best I can with those situations.
Need a chair rather than a booth at a restaurant? You got it.
Need help getting in and out of the vehicle? You got it.
Need help getting in and out of furniture? You got it.
Need help in the more personal aspects of life? You got it.
Need help reaching something? You got it.
Need help completing a task due to tiredness? You got it.
So on and so forth...

*How does someone's experience of being fat play into and determine your relationship with them, and how do you respond to this? Are you more accommodating?*
Their experiences in being fat are going to be different - sometimes widely (*snicker*) different - from person to person, as well as different from mine. It's hard to say without having a specific type of person as an example. A person _being_ fat matters a great deal to me, personally. I'm sure I'm not the only one when I speak very highly of having fat people surround me. It makes me feel whole, it makes me feel welcome, it makes me feel comfortable. I generally don't lose that sense of fat positivity away from fat people, but it greatly enhances that experience for me. I'm unsure of how anyone else might feel towards the situation, though.
When it comes to a female that I am interested in creating a partnership with, being fat matters a great deal to me as well. It makes me feel whole, it makes me feel wonderful, it enhances my joy and pleasure, and depending on the characteristics of the female, it grabs hold of some other somewhat-essential positive aspects of the relationship.
Yes, I am more accommodating. That's not to say that I am _not_ accommodating to others if they are not fat - and that's not to suggest that I'm accommodating of all fat people - but it certainly helps a lot.

*Can you sympathize fully with the fat experience, or does it remain essentially foreign to you?*
I can sympathize and empathize. I can also help create another perspective - another worldly view - when it comes to things I think can help improve the fat experience. That always varies from person to person, but I think I can bring a lot to the table. Fatness is not foreign to me at all.

I hope I answered your questions, Fascinita.


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## philosobear (Oct 27, 2008)

I think, whatever a thin FA, or one who has put on a bit over the years may learn about their partner's life and needs, if you haven't grown up fat, you can't really know the experience. You can empathise, intellectualise and adjust somewhat, but there's something about growing up noticeably fat that those of us that didn't will never fully understand. As for what that is, well, by definition, that's not for me to say...


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## No-No-Badkitty (Oct 27, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Many people on the boards report on what it's like to be fat: the constant well-meaning intrusions and unwanted suggestions for losing weight... the physical realities of being fat (both positive and negative)... the forced invisibility and de-sexualization (or oversexualization) of fat... the random insults shouted from passing cars... the toils of finding clothing that fits...




I am fat (have always been fat). I like the way fat makes a women look (especially) and I like meat on my men.
I don't know if that makes me an FA or not because I can find equal beauty in thin people as well.
But any how.
To be honest. I don't think anyone who is not fat could ever "understand" what it's like to be fat. Just like as a white cracker, I could never "understand" what it's like to be black, yellow, brown, etc. To struggle with being black. To face the same trials. To see the same prejudice. I can be aware of what minorities go through, but I can NEVER *know* what it's like until I myself wake up a different color and live their life.
I am by no means saying that people cannot empathize with fat people, but in all reality it's not the same. And way too often (in my experience) that empathy comes off like pity. And I am sorry but I do not want to be pitied. You pity people who need pity because of misfortune I am not misfortunate because I am fat. 
I think the fact that non fat people try to understand is great and I wouldn't want it any other way but I do think true understanding will never be found unless they live the life.

P.s.
I know some people gain and loose weight as they please. They become fat or thin. That might give them a little insite but even then...the knowledge that they can loose saves them. Many fat people cannot loose no matter what we do, aside from surgery or self-induced starvation.


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## Ichida (Oct 27, 2008)

That is a really great question...

I guess for me it comes down to emphathy - not with being fat (because I have never been a true bbw although at one point I was 170 on my 5'3 frame), but about being self conscious in general. I think if you have a larger partner it figures into your everyday thinking. When planning a hike you take into consideration the type of trail, or the seating at a restaurant. By doing this you spare them embarrassment from not being able to fit into ridiculously small spaces or feel like they are very unfit. You need to be sensitive of their physical, and emotional needs.

As far as the emotional impact I think it is true being fat is unique in many ways. On the other hand I myself got over dibiltating confidence issues and social ostricism, so I can empathize with the type of behaviour people exhibit and how it makes people feel. Looking at the person like being fat is completely acceptable in society isn't fair - you have to aknowledge that sometimes it is hard. Just knowing someone cares and sympathizes can help.


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## Tad (Oct 27, 2008)

I dont think we even know exactly how the person standing next to us perceives the same rose that we are looking at. Does red look exactly the same to them? Do they pick up on smells the same way we do, and react to them the same? Are they more distracted by the noise of the passing car? If they prick their finger on a thorn does the pain hit them the same way it would us? 

Researchers recently associated a variant with one gene with more intense emotional recall. That is, the minority of people with this gene seem to be more affected by memories of intense emotions. Well, at least intense, unpleasant, emotions (what they tested with), but it may affect other emotions too, that would require future testing. So if you and I were both passengers in a bus that crashed, how that event affects us in the future may affect us differently for genetic reasons, before even taking into account past experiences, counseling, and so on.

Several years ago I read an article with some results from a long term study that looked at kids growing up in a very poor area of Hawaii, where there were a lot of what we might think of as more typically big city poor neighborhood social problemsalcoholism, high levels of divorce and single parent families, low levels of completing school, and so on. They found that indeed a lot of kids growing up there had a lot of problems and seemed likely to carry on the cycle. Some, however, seemed immune to their setting, and looked poised to have their lives much more together. What frustrated the researchers was that they could not correlate any of the factors that they tracked with this success. It wasnt the state of the family, family income level, participation in particular programs, birth weight, or a bunch of other factors. The best they could say was that these kids perhaps had either had some genetic difference that prevented them from being so affected, or maybe some small factor when they when they were young. But whatever it was, it wasnt anything they could observe, and transmit to others.

In other words, I think that how we perceive the world, and the experiences we have in dealing with the word, vary a LOT from person to person. I dont believe that there is one fat person experience nor one nature or attitude of FA. So in a lot of ways I think this is a bit like asking Do parents understand todays teenagers? The answer will of course be yes-no-maybeso-noneoftheabove.

Having said all of that, I can assure you that as a younger FA, I totally did not get it. There were some things I could understand, but a lot that never even occurred to me. I could see that airplane seats, which werent that big for me, would be a problem for someone fatter, and would be physically uncomfortable. I totally did not get the emotional or social discomfort that a lot would feel, even if they accepted their body. I got that a fatter person would tire more easily and maybe could not walk as far as a thinner one, I didnt get that what might limit them more than fatigue was pain in their knees, ankles, and feet. I understood that finding clothes that fit and looked good could be more of a challenge, but I saw it as a logistical challenge only, and did not get the sense of social isolation or second class citizen feelings that could go with it.

I get more of this now, after well over a decade around Dimensions, and having lived through certain personal experiences. But Im sure that there are still things I dont get. But Im sure there are things I dont get about having bright red hair, or being left-handed, or a whole host of other variations of the human experience. Or for that matter, things I dont get about being a middle-aged, mildly fat, balding, desk jockey other than myself.


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## GoldenDelicious (Oct 27, 2008)

great question!

Edx I think you've made some very good points on this. I think as people are individuals each individual FA will have their own understanding (or lack of it). In my relationship I think Mer understands me very well and more so as our relationship has developed however, I think that can have as much to do with communication and taking the time to be interested in and really get to know and try to understand and empathise with the highs and lows of being fat. It's as much to do with our relationship and less to do with being an expert FA. As each man or woman will have their own perpective and feelings and experiences of being fat, so too will their partners responses, reactions and understanding be different.

If FA's read about fat people's experiences in order to try to be more understanding in their current relationship, then I'd advise them they'd be better talking to and listening to their partners. If they are not in a relationship and would like to be an understanding good 'FA catch' then I guess listening to others experiences will be good for them and I'd say well done for caring enough to do your research, you're off to a good start.


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## ssbbwlover2 (Oct 27, 2008)

My question for FAs is: How do you show your understanding of fat people's unique experiences, in your relationships with fat people? 

I take the time to understand the needs of bigger people and always attempt to accomodate their unique needs to be determines based on each individual's needs. 

How does someone's experience of being fat play into and determine your relationship with them, and how do you respond to this? Are you more accommodating? Yes very accomodating and I always try to help in whatever way I can.


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## Edens_heel (Oct 28, 2008)

I think I definitely have a unique understanding considering I was a short (4'11") and fat kid in high school, and the ridicule I had to put up with triggered a pretty severe and longstanding bout of anorexia in me (to be honest, it never really dies away completely). 

Interesting side note from that is that as a result, while I've kept myself pretty fit and slim, I've found that I have even LESS attraction to thinner women. If I hug someone and can feel ribs or sharp shoulder blades, it's almost like it triggers a bad memory of what i put myself through and it makes me want to pull away altogether.

So yeah, I'd say I have at least some understanding of the day-to-day shit that fat people have to put up with.


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## mergirl (Oct 28, 2008)

No-No-Badkitty said:


> I am fat (have always been fat). I like the way fat makes a women look (especially) and I like meat on my men.
> I don't know if that makes me an FA or not because I can find equal beauty in thin people as well.
> But any how.
> To be honest. I don't think anyone who is not fat could ever "understand" what it's like to be fat. Just like as a white cracker, I could never "understand" what it's like to be black, yellow, brown, etc. To struggle with being black. To face the same trials. To see the same prejudice. I can be aware of what minorities go through, but I can NEVER *know* what it's like until I myself wake up a different color and live their life.
> ...


Right, When i read the op i thought along the same lines. That you never really can know what its like to be someone else. Though, it may also feel different to be fat depending on your geographical location, peer group, upbringing etc etc. I wouldnt confuse "empathy" with sympathy though. If you are empathising with someone, you are trying to feel what it would be like to walk in thier shoes whether its a positive or negative experience, with sympathy its generally with feelings of loss or sadness. I suppose if we are talking about Fa's empathising with fat people (assuming the fa's are not fat btw) it might depend on the experiences they have had with fat people themselves. 
Still, though..it is one thing to consider the needs and wants, struggles and tribulations of someone and quite another thing to experience first hand what someone is going through emotionally.


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## mergirl (Oct 28, 2008)

GoldenDelicious said:


> great question!
> 
> Edx I think you've made some very good points on this. I think as people are individuals each individual FA will have their own understanding (or lack of it). In my relationship I think Mer understands me very well and more so as our relationship has developed however, I think that can have as much to do with communication and taking the time to be interested in and really get to know and try to understand and empathise with the highs and lows of being fat. It's as much to do with our relationship and less to do with being an expert FA. As each man or woman will have their own perpective and feelings and experiences of being fat, so too will their partners responses, reactions and understanding be different.
> 
> If FA's read about fat people's experiences in order to try to be more understanding in their current relationship, then I'd advise them they'd be better talking to and listening to their partners. If they are not in a relationship and would like to be an understanding good 'FA catch' then I guess listening to others experiences will be good for them and I'd say well done for caring enough to do your research, you're off to a good start.


I'm NOT an expert FA??? *sobs*
hmm.. actually, being an "expert" in anything sounds like a lot of hard work to me.. much better to bluster along by the seat of your pants i feel. lol 

xmer


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## goodthings (Oct 29, 2008)

i have not actually met a fa yet, but I would hedge a bet that they cannot understand a fatty. I am a fatty and do not understand all other fatties.


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## GordoNegro (Oct 29, 2008)

Being a mutual gainer and seeing myself go from chubby to portly to undeniably fat, i believe i can definately empathize along with sympathize.
Knowing its a little different being the only dark-skinned latino at times to being (one of) the fat one.
Seeing changes in peoples reactions, attitudes, opinions and all.
Firsthand seeing others frustrations/attitudes just to say 'excuse me' before or while making contact already.
Though IMO, being able to empathize and sympathize made me a better FA than before.


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## superodalisque (Oct 29, 2008)

i really don't know if FAs understand fatties. since, i never describe myself as a fatty. and i don't describe men who are interested in me as FAs. i just worry whether people understand me. i don't think i have a shared consciousness with all other fat women. as far as i know, all of the beautiful women who are my friends who carry extra poundage are generally highly individualistic and have their own opinions about everything. in fact i never describe myself as a fat woman, only a woman who happens to have a physical description of being fat. for me describing myself as a fat woman brings up images of the circus and deletes who i am. i'm not a joke. i'm not a freak. i'm not a fetish. i'm intelligent , smart, sexy and talented. i'm a whole lot of things the image of fat woman in the circus never brought to anyone's mind--even though they were all of that and more. the difference is i know i'm all of that and i show it at every opportunity. i'm a woman the same as any other AND i have a lot of nice fat on my body. i like being Felecia who is fat but i would hate being a fat woman. i like my identity. sometimes i wonder if we people who are fat freakify ( yep a new word! i just made it up!) the whole issue too much. i know i'm splitting hairs but i thought i would just throw it in there.

PS: this does not have a hostile tone:kiss2:


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## superodalisque (Oct 29, 2008)

to answer your question in the way you intended it. as far as i'm concerned i feel that most FAs i've met don't have a clue. and sometimes even if they do they like pretending as if they don't. if they can keep up the pretense they can get away with more. the ones i know are by no means all of them and i probably haven't met them in the right situtations. this answer pertains to how they approach me and not whether they understand i might get out of breath if i walk too far.


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## Hole (Oct 29, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i really don't know if FAs understand fatties. since, i never describe myself as a fatty. and i don't describe men who are interested in me as FAs. i just worry whether people understand me. i don't think i have a shared consciousness with all other fat women. as far as i know, all of the beautiful women who are my friends who carry extra poundage are generally highly individualistic and have their own opinions about everything. in fact i never describe myself as a fat woman, only a woman who happens to have a physical description of being fat. for me describing myself as a fat woman brings up images of the circus and deletes who i am. i'm not a joke. i'm not a freak. i'm not a fetish. i'm intelligent , smart, sexy and talented. i'm a whole lot of things the image of fat woman in the circus never brought to anyone's mind--even though they were all of that and more. the difference is i know i'm all of that and i show it at every opportunity. i'm a woman the same as any other AND i have a lot of nice fat on my body. i like being Felecia who is fat but i would hate being a fat woman. i like my identity. sometimes i wonder if we people who are fat freakify ( yep a new word! i just made it up!) the whole issue too much. i know i'm splitting hairs but i thought i would just throw it in there.
> 
> PS: this does not have a hostile tone:kiss2:




I love your attitude. *thumbs up*

PS: No sarcasm. (Just incase!)


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## B68 (Oct 29, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> to answer your question in the way you intended it. as far as i'm concerned i feel that most FAs i've met don't have a clue. and sometimes even if they do they like pretending as if they don't. if they can keep up the pretense they can get away with more. the ones i know are by no means all of them and i probably haven't met them in the right situtations. this answer pertains to how they approach me and not whether they understand i might get out of breath if i walk too far.



The FA's/men who have more than a clue have little chance to be known for who they really are as well.

But believe me, they excist. And they look and act pretty much like the clueless at first sight.

It isn't easy. The same goes for me. I've invested time, money and loads of feelings in women who didn't deserve it at all. And there was nothing that could tell me so beforehand. But i'll never give up on love.


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## superodalisque (Oct 29, 2008)

i haven't given up either. i just don't care for people who only choose to see me in one way. the men that i'm attracted to are a bit more sensitive than that--to me and ther women as well. also i know and understand that the majority of men that are attracted to me are not even FAs.


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## Fascinita (Oct 29, 2008)

Don't you split hairs on me, Felecia! 

Actually, I think you make some fair points.

Thanks, everyone for the thoughtful replies. Keep your thoughts flowing, please.


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## olwen (Oct 29, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i haven't given up either. i just don't care for people who only choose to see me in one way. the men that i'm attracted to are a bit more sensitive than that--to me and ther women as well. also i know and understand that the majority of men that are attracted to me are not even FAs.



I'm just a bit confused about how someone who's never been attracted to a fat person will suddenly be attracted to one? 

I know you don't like labels, but this is where I find them helpful. Are you referring to men who were always attracted to fat women, but never labeled themselves as FAs or are you talking about men who were never attracted to fat people and never considered themselves FAs?


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## superodalisque (Oct 29, 2008)

olwen said:


> I'm just a bit confused about how someone who's never been attracted to a fat person will suddenly be attracted to one?
> 
> I know you don't like labels, but this is where I find them helpful. Are you referring to men who were always attracted to fat women, but never labeled themselves as FAs or are you talking about men who were never attracted to fat people and never considered themselves FAs?



neither and both. well there are some people who are attracted to fat people and then there are some people who are attracted people who happen to be fat and they explore that and get to know all of the juicy little joys that all FAs probably already now about. its like the difference between a guy who is attracted only to girls with big boobs, and a guy who is attracted to a woman who happens to have big boobs and he discovers all of the joys of that as a part of her, not as something that stands separate and almost disembodied. its not a condition he takes her on. it took me a while to realize that there are guys who operate in different ways. they aren't all the same. i think its a matter of sensibilities. i know some guys who'd actually be disgusted by the idea that they'd be with just anyone because they were a certain body type. then i know guys who'd say it wasn't hurting anybody. he could say yes and take on all comers.

also i didn't say it was someone who was never attracted to a person who is fat. just because a guy isn't what might be defined as an FA and go exclusively after women who are fat it doesn't mean he doesn't find them sexy. i think thats a myth. in fact i know its one. i think its put out by people who don't want to share whats rare and hard to get. i've had very passionate relationships with men who never went exclusively for fat women. i also know a few men who kind of discovered a preference for big girls late in life and before that didn;t think they were attracted to a waman who was big. mainly they've said they never thought about it before. culturally as you know BBWs haven't been presented that way in general. and until recently in this half of this fat hating century i'd say 99.9% of BBWS did not express themselves much in any kind of confident and womanly way. even now with the websites etc... oyu very seldom see a woman who is fat presented in a sensual and romantic way. its often presented in a freakish oddity fetishlike way with a focus on fat and not the beauty of the woman. so yet and still in some ways we are not being portrayed as fully desireable. 

also BBWs still aren't they aren't really available. they don't go to regular date and meet up places much. in other words they don't give guys a chance. even the ones who do are not often very confident in private. i now from modeling nude that most men will display evidence that they think a woman who is fat is sexy. we are not these big honking ugly turnoffs that we seem to think we are. don't fall into the trap of believing that the only kind of person who can desire you passionately is an FA. don't limit yourself. i'm here to tell you that its not true. and also don't confuse simple sexual desire from someone who happens to be an FA for caring.


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## olwen (Oct 29, 2008)

I'm not sure that clears it up for me, but it's just something I have to continue to think about. I'm just trying to wrap my brain around the fact that a man could be attracted to a body type he's never responded to before simply because he thinks the person is great. My experiences with men just haven't spoken to that. It's one of those I need to see it before I can believe it type of things. I've seen women respond like that, but not men. 

....but since so many people see an attraction to fatness as a preference, then, maybe I need to hang around more open minded guys.


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## superodalisque (Oct 29, 2008)

olwen said:


> I'm not sure that clears it up for me, but it's just something I have to continue to think about. I'm just trying to wrap my brain around the fact that a man could be attracted to a body type he's never responded to before simply because he thinks the person is great. My experiences with men just haven't spoken to that. It's one of those I need to see it before I can believe it type of things. I've seen women respond like that, but not men.
> 
> ....but since so many people see an attraction to fatness as a preference, then, maybe I need to hang around more open minded guys.



i'll be so happy for you when you do experience it. its so worth the wait. i can't tell you how much i miss it.


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## Haunted (Oct 30, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i'll be so happy for you when you do experience it. its so worth the wait. i can't tell you how much i miss it.



I'm not about to attempt to convince anyone whether i Fully Understand My "fatty" or not

I do want to reply to superdalisque I will say that when with My girl i'm Much more passionate, i appreciate her body to no end, i have never felt a physical attraction like this before. don't get me wrong i love her we have a very deep emotional connection, But physically i can not get enough of the feel and look of her soft curves, Olwen you need to get yourself a true FA


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## superodalisque (Oct 30, 2008)

Haunted said:


> I'm not about to attempt to convince anyone whether i Fully Understand My "fatty" or not
> 
> I do want to reply to superdalisque I will say that when with My girl i'm Much more passionate, i appreciate her body to no end, i have never felt a physical attraction like this before. don't get me wrong i love her we have a very deep emotional connection, But physically i can not get enough of the feel and look of her soft curves, Olwen you need to get yourself a true FA



have you ever been with another big girl you haven't felt as passionate about as you do with your love now? hey i'm not excluding sexual attraction from the mix at all. this is not the either or argument people always seem to want to make it. once i looked across the room at someone and i knew he was it. we couldn't stop smiling at each other. he said that he always felt the same and he couldn't wait to touch me--which was definitely true. we had a very active sex life. i never felt that he'd rather be with someone else physically ever. he never compared me to any thin woman. i didnt have to be bigger or smaller to attract him. he never acted as though i wasn't enough for him--just me. and that was from day one. but love takes different forms for everybody. sex alone doesn't make everything alright.
i'd never encourage anyone to be narrow and maybe miss the chance. i wouldn't want any woman to think she has only to be this specimen of sexual desireability alone before she can be loved. its not true and its never was true.

i'm not trying to be argumentative. i was just thinking. what if your beautiful lady woke up one day and felt that as much as you desired her that it wasn't enough for her. what if she thought that was all about you and your desires alone. twhat if she wanted more proof of love than just passionate sex. what if she thought it was all about her body? what if she decided that she wanted to be thin? or what if she lost weight because of an illness and would never be able to gain it back and she worried you wouldn't want her anymore because he physical part of your relationship was so important to you in this particular way? what if she found a man who was as passionate who did not care how her body changed? which do you think she would find more satisfying? respectfully, the conditionality that some FAs have kind of detracts from what i would like to have with a man. but, thats just my opinion.


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## Haunted (Oct 30, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> have you ever been with another big girl you haven't felt as passionate about as you do with your love now? hey i'm not excluding sexual attraction from the mix at all. this is not the either or argument people always seem to want to make it. once i looked across the room at someone and i knew he was it. we couldn't stop smiling at each other. he said that he always felt the same and he couldn't wait to touch me--which was definitely true. we had a very active sex life. i never felt that he'd rather be with someone else physically ever. he never compared me to any thin woman. i didnt have to be bigger or smaller to attract him. he never acted as though i wasn't enough for him--just me. and that was from day one. but love takes different forms for everybody. sex alone doesn't make everything alright.
> i'd never encourage anyone to be narrow and maybe miss the chance. i wouldn't want any woman to think she has only to be this specimen of sexual desireability alone before she can be loved. its not true and its never was true.



to be totally honest I think it has alot to do with her confidence, she's very comfortable with her body so i don't feel bad or awkward about worshiping her Body she loves how i touch her and even though she has some hang-up's with her body she's comfortable enough with me that they aren't issues.

My ex-wife was chubby and she hated her body. which made intimacy challenging, and we didn't have the level of a connection that Misty and i do. so Your right in saying it's more than just Fatty love we have an honest connection and we get each other on a very deep level


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## superodalisque (Oct 30, 2008)

Haunted said:


> to be totally honest I think it has alot to do with her confidence, she's very comfortable with her body so i don't feel bad or awkward about worshiping her Body she loves how i touch her and even though she has some hang-up's with her body she's comfortable enough with me that they aren't issues.
> 
> My ex-wife was chubby and she hated her body. which made intimacy challenging, and we didn't have the level of a connection that Misty and i do. so Your right in saying it's more than just Fatty love we have an honest connection and we get each other on a very deep level




the same thing was said to me by men who had never thought of being with a woman who was fat before. it was my confidence that sent them thinking dreaming and fantasizing about a fat woman when it had never occurred to them before. 

i think the two of you are wonderful. you are probably a really great and sensitive guy. i'd never talk a woman out of an FA. but, i also think its important to think about what it means to a woman when you say ONLY an FA could love her passionately. what are you really saying to her. are you, the one who admires and adores her type, telling her that somehow you agree with society--that she is generally undesireable? that its not possible for another man to love her and love her passionately because her looks are not appealing? sometimes i wonder if deep down in their souls if some FAs don't actually believe women who are fat beautiful. some of them are ashamed of us. a lot don't treat us with respect. some don't think other men want us. what does that say?


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## Smushygirl (Oct 30, 2008)

olwen said:


> I'm not sure that clears it up for me, but it's just something I have to continue to think about. I'm just trying to wrap my brain around the fact that a man could be attracted to a body type he's never responded to before simply because he thinks the person is great. My experiences with men just haven't spoken to that. It's one of those I need to see it before I can believe it type of things. I've seen women respond like that, but not men.
> 
> ....but since so many people see an attraction to fatness as a preference, then, maybe I need to hang around more open minded guys.



Dearest Olwen,

When I read this, I thought to myself, "wow, just wow, how sad".

I am trying to do this diplomatically, so please bear with me. I am not criticizing you at all, just expressing dismay at what I see happening around me. I find that sexuality being marketed into niche markets a sad thing. I'm a woman, not a demographic.

When I was your age, I had to go out and do all the things I wanted to sexually to find out what I liked. I couldn't go on the internets and be fascinated by something I hadn't even tried. 

I went to college and attracted many guys, most of whom I am sure weren't FA's. I slept with whom I was attracted to, not just what about him I was physically attracted to. I'm sure that there are men that don't venture out of their comfort zone for physicality, but I also know that there are those that do. I have been with them. The best lover I ever had was not an FA, he was very into ME though. 

In this hurly burly word of internet porn and dating, everyone seems to very happy with demanding what they think will make them happy without a thought to the fact there is a person involved. Sometimes I feel like I am looked at as a plug in to someone's kink script. "OK, here's my kink, this is the scenario, ok, this is where you fit in...just shut up and cooperate!" Where is there room for me in that?

I have a girlfriend that advertises in her personal ads for men whose penises are no smaller than 7.5". She says if you don't have big meat, don't apply. I kind of admire her for that, lol, but I also find it distasteful. What if there was a great guy that was 5.5", girthy, and a wonderful person, not to mention a great lover?

Just recently at the NJ bash, I was told by someone I considered a good male FA friend that maybe I should gain 100 lbs. Because I consider him a friend, he still has his teeth. Imagine how everyone on this board would feel if some man at a party had told them they would be more attractive if the LOST 100lbs? 

I know we all have preferences, I certainly have mine. I just wish we would give each other a break sometimes.

Your pal, 

Smushy


P.S. (((((Felecia))))) I miss you! :kiss2:


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## Shosh (Oct 30, 2008)

Smushygirl said:


> Dearest Olwen,
> 
> When I read this, I thought to myself, "wow, just wow, how sad".
> 
> ...




A triumph in words Smush.:bow:


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## superodalisque (Oct 30, 2008)

Smushygirl said:


> Dearest Olwen,
> 
> When I read this, I thought to myself, "wow, just wow, how sad".
> 
> ...



i miss you too!:kiss2: you know i had to rep you for this don't you?


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## exile in thighville (Oct 30, 2008)

I think I feel 100% of the emotional experience of fat. I can't speak to the physical experience or difficulties, but I forget that I'm thin myself the way my mind jumps in comfort around thin/fat discussion with other thin people...the pit I get in my stomach when someone tosses off a meaningless catch-all against fat, the personal slap I feel, the embarrassment, intolerance, all of it. I used to think I would have trouble transitioning from one community (web) to another (life) and now I have friends emailing me about fat-related songs or my dad mentioning plus size events he caught in the newspaper, and the same goes for negativity...I'm always uncomfortable around diet/gym discussions, or casual mentions of "I look fat" from a thin person. I'm at a point where I'm visibly and openly more comfortable around fat people...it's almost fellow thins who make me nervous, the assumptions they make about ideal beauty or health, the jarring slip of casual fat gripes from even the most erudite people I'm meeting at the oldest years of my life.


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## Shosh (Oct 30, 2008)

I do not know how to answer this question really. I think FA's certainly try to understand the fat experience, but we either are living it, or have lived the physicality of fat, and the emotional aspects of it.

I do not wish to isolate anybody, but can those who are not fat, and who have never been fat ever really understand?

Somebody I knew once likened being fat to comitting social suicide. I never forgot that, and it upset me greatly.


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## B68 (Oct 30, 2008)

(The following is not an attack on opinions and i only use the perspective of the male FA for the ease of reading.)

I don't think there's an answer to the original question in general. 

As an FA i'm limited by my own sexuality. Other men are limited by their social environment. Or by their sexdrive and narcism. 

Which leads to a new definition of the FA. Fat Admirer in some cases has become Fat Abuser. 

A Fat Abuser is someone who's only looking for sex with a fat woman and some occasional company. He's likely to see a woman as a mere sexual instrument. He will try to force things without consideration. And when she doesn't co-operate, he'll cheat. 

A Fat Admirer is just an admirer in a positive way. He knows what attracts him physically. And he has to live with that. He doesn't allways like to be that way, because he can see the beauty in a thin women too. He just knows he can't be more than friends with her. And the admirer loves to admire when he meets a BBW who attracts him in every possible way. If the attraction is mutual... PARTY!!

The admirer loves that one fat woman for her body&soul. And because he knows a thing or two about the subject of being fat, he'll treat that aspect with respect as well as passion. And when he sees her naked, he doesn't see tits and a hole, but a goddess from head to toes. That's awkward for some women who're not used to that, but isn't it a beautiful thing on it's own?

And an admirer may want to improve only one thing about his SO. Her self esteem if needed. 

People can care completely when love just happens to them. And that goes for all of us, fat, thin, occasional admirer and absolute admirer.

The limits of a Fat Admirer are his own sexual limits from within he can operate, not the limits of others. And they certainly don't exclude love or understanding. Speaking for myself, i can't have sex without love. Damn, another limit...


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## LillyBBBW (Oct 30, 2008)

I'll never fully know what it means to be a gay Hispanic male but surely I can understand. I can't possibly know it all though or think that becasue I have one friend that I now understand what they all must be thinking or going through.


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## Ivy (Oct 30, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> I'll never fully know what it means to be a gay Hispanic male but surely I can understand. I can't possibly know it all though or think that becasue I have one friend that I now understand what they all must be thinking or going through.



exaaaactly. i think FAs can understand and empathize with what a fat person goes through to a point, but they can never fully and completely know what it means to be a fat person unless they themselves are fat or have been fat in the past.

grr cant rep you.


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## imfree (Oct 30, 2008)

Ivy said:


> exaaaactly. i think FAs can understand and empathize with what a fat person goes through to a point, but they can never fully and completely know what it means to be a fat person unless they themselves are fat or have been fat in the past.
> 
> grr cant rep you.




I got her for ya'. She's a very repworthy gal.


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## Haunted (Oct 30, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> the same thing was said to me by men who had never thought of being with a woman who was fat before. it was my confidence that sent them thinking dreaming and fantasizing about a fat woman when it had never occurred to them before.
> 
> i think the two of you are wonderful. you are probably a really great and sensitive guy. i'd never talk a woman out of an FA. but, i also think its important to think about what it means to a woman when you say ONLY an FA could love her passionately. what are you really saying to her. are you, the one who admires and adores her type, telling her that somehow you agree with society--that she is generally undesireable? that its not possible for another man to love her and love her passionately because her looks are not appealing? sometimes i wonder if deep down in their souls if some FAs don't actually believe women who are fat beautiful. some of them are ashamed of us. a lot don't treat us with respect. some don't think other men want us. what does that say?



I didn't say only an Fa could Love her this Passionately, I said i have never Been this passionate with anyone before. The more and more i think about this the answer is too complicated to lay out in a forum thread. I do not just love her because she's fat, although I do worship and caress every inch of her.

What I'm really telling her is I love her and She Is stunningly Beautiful and i'm Scared of losing her Because i'm so far away, If i agreed with society and thought i was some gift to Fat girls then why did i fall for one 3000 miles away wouldn't it be more productive to tear through New England Breaking the hearts of Big girls along the way 

Yes I'm a fat admirer and the One "Fatty" That stole My heart is in California sure there are plenty Of Beautiful Big Girls around here but none of them are Misty. 

Or maybe i'm not an fa Maybe i just love her so completely That physical attraction is a moot point (of course that wouldn't explain the obsessive tummy rubs) 

I believe i am an fa (fat admirer Not abuser) and along the way while admiring Fat woman I found My Dream "Fatty" 

also i believe i tend to obsess over the Physical because I can't Have it. We connect emotionally everyday on the phone or on video chat etc. so when i start to write about my Misty it very often becomes a rant about her physically how i want to hold her, How I'm dying to feel her close, pressed tightly against me, How i want to feel her lips on mine. How i wish i could run my hands through her hair and smell her perfume. We send t-shirts back and forth to each other to feel closer, when they stop smelling like her i turn it in on the t-shirt exchange program (sounds goofy but it gets me through the lonely Nights) 

this is starting to feel like the question "do you love her Because of or inspite of her Fat?" the answer is neither I Love her, And She happens to be Fat. I noticed her because of her fat and back then she was really only Chubby lol.

I'm not about to try to say i understand what it's like to be fat i was a fat kid growing up i Know it's hard but i was a kid not an adult i was a boy not a woman and i lived in the north east not the West Coast and all these things and more dictate each "Individuals" experience 

Sorry if this seems disjointed i just let it flow hopefully it makes sense


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## ashmamma84 (Oct 30, 2008)

I think Supero is on to something...stirring the pot up a bit maybe. 

In my personal life I know of men who don't consider themselves to be FA's. My brothers and my father all love big women, but if you saw them on the street and asked if they were an FA, they would look at you crossed eyed and crazy. Not because they are ashamed, not because they are embarassed, but because they don't know any of this fancy schmancy lingo that we use at Dims. I'm subject to believe there are millions of other men just like this. So maybe its limiting in a way...a single woman could be passing up a great guy simply because that's now how he defines himself.

And I think its also true that you might not know what rocks your world until you've experienced or laid eyes on it...


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## B68 (Oct 30, 2008)

ashmamma84 said:


> I think Supero is on to something...stirring the pot up a bit maybe.
> 
> In my personal life I know of men who don't consider themselves to be FA's. My brothers and my father all love big women, but if you saw them on the street and asked if they were an FA, they would look at you crossed eyed and crazy. Not because they are ashamed, not because they are embarassed, but because they don't know any of this fancy schmancy lingo that we use at Dims. I'm subject to believe there are millions of other men just like this. So maybe its limiting in a way...a single woman could be passing up a great guy simply because that's now how he defines himself.
> 
> And I think its also true that you might not know what rocks your world until you've experienced or laid eyes on it...



Well, you may dislike the term FA, but when you talk here on the boards it can be convenient to use them, instead of explaining where you stand all the time. In this thread it doesn't work though

When i joined the forum recently, i thought it was enough to say that i'm an FA. But the women in here made me realize there is more to it.

I've shown my view in this thread. I have to do that in the Netherlands too, because the terms FA and BBW aren't known by everyone. And it works better than just saying i'm an FA. Because in some ears that sounds like saying 'i'm an FA, SO i like you'. 

On the other hand, you know that the term FA just says someone is limited in the range of women he can like physically. It says nothing about the rest of his personality. And it doesn't say 'i love every fat woman who looks like this or that'. 

Hey, i don't disagree with you or the other women in here. I just want to say there's nothing wrong with the basic meaning of the term FA.


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## Santaclear (Oct 30, 2008)

ashmamma84 said:


> I think Supero is on to something...stirring the pot up a bit maybe.
> In my personal life I know of men who don't consider themselves to be FA's. My brothers and my father all love big women, but if you saw them on the street and asked if they were an FA, they would look at you crossed eyed and crazy. Not because they are ashamed, not because they are embarassed, but because they don't know any of this fancy schmancy lingo that we use at Dims. I'm subject to believe there are millions of other men just like this. So maybe its limiting in a way...a single woman could be passing up a great guy simply because that's now how he defines himself.
> And I think its also true that you might not know what rocks your world until you've experienced or laid eyes on it...



I agree pretty much with what B68 responded to this, Ash. "FA" is just Dimensions-type shorthand - it doesn't hold a lot of currency positive or negative out in the rest of the world. Since we do discuss these issues a lot here and among fat people it does have meaning.


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## Santaclear (Oct 30, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> ..Clearly being fat is frequently a unique, complicated experience of itself, with both many wonderful highs and a number of disheartening lows.
> 
> My question for FAs is: How do you show your understanding of fat people's unique experiences, in your relationships with fat people? How does someone's experience of being fat play into and determine your relationship with them, and how do you respond to this? Are you more accommodating? Can you sympathize fully with the fat experience, or does it remain essentially foreign to you? ...............................................Or?



To answer Fasc's original question, I don't regard myself as an expert on other people's feelings and experiences, so it would be presumptuous for me to say that I "sympathize fully" with _anyone's_ experiences - that's for them to decide, not me. 

But I try to be sensitive. There have been times I've made accommodations with driving or walking. Seating. None of this has really made much impact on me or my life thus far but as one who loves fat woman I'd say I sympathize a lot - it's sure not foreign to me.


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## B68 (Oct 30, 2008)

Santaclear said:


> To answer Fasc's original question, I don't regard myself as an expert on other people's feelings and experiences, so it would be presumptuous for me to say that I "sympathize fully" with _anyone's_ experiences - that's for them to decide, not me.
> 
> But I try to be sensitive. There have been times I've made accommodations with driving or walking. Seating. None of this has really made much impact on me or my life thus far but as one who loves fat woman I'd say I sympathize a lot - it's sure not foreign to me.



This is a reply i can fully sympathize with


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## olwen (Oct 30, 2008)

I'm amazed that there are so many different interpretations of the term FA. It wasn't until I came to these boards that I knew this was possible. To me it's just always meant - a person who is physically attracted to fat people. All this extra stuff: inspite of fat, because of fat, not labeling, only labeling, limiting vs. not limiting, physcial attraction vs. attraction to personality...it just never crossed my mind. And the difference between a physical attraction and a mental one never seemed like something I had to distinguish when it came to FAs because it seemed like something everyone experiences. And by my own definition, it was just a moot point. I guess we talk about that last bit a lot around here...as for the last bit, I think if we're talking about things like tall vs. short, red hair vs. blonde hair, muscular vs. not muscular, or big boobs vs. small boobs then I'd think what people like would be more fluid and it really wouldn't matter. Those seem like really small things. But 200-300lbs seems like a not so small thing. I once had a guy tell me, "you like what you like." He said he couldn't control the way his body responded to women. He wasn't attracted to fat people. Until he said that, it had never occurred to me to think that way about non-Fas. If people think it's possible for guys to be able to override their bodies, no matter what body types they're attracted to or not attracted to, then okay. I'll just have to take everyone's word for it. 

Fasc, maybe the topic for this thread should be "Do fatties understand FAs?"


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## Fascinita (Oct 30, 2008)

Haunted said:


> I didn't say only an Fa could Love her this Passionately, I said i have never Been this passionate with anyone before. The more and more i think about this the answer is too complicated to lay out in a forum thread. I do not just love her because she's fat, although I do worship and caress every inch of her.
> 
> What I'm really telling her is I love her and She Is stunningly Beautiful and i'm Scared of losing her Because i'm so far away, If i agreed with society and thought i was some gift to Fat girls then why did i fall for one 3000 miles away wouldn't it be more productive to tear through New England Breaking the hearts of Big girls along the way
> 
> ...




No, I actually found your post coherent and very emotionally resonant. And I think it's neat that it seems to provide a window into the way that FA is not just a way of saying "I like all fat," because of the circumstances of your relationship as you explained them. Clearly, you're mad for your fatty.  That's awesome.


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## superodalisque (Oct 31, 2008)

i think the reason i might define an FA differently is because in my experience i have noticed a general difference in the way i get treated by guys who call themselves FAs vs those who don't. this is by no means all of them but its enough that i've noticed a trend. the ones who don't just tend to treat me like a woman they like and are interested in. maybe because i don't tend to meet them at BBW events or online they have actual conversations about life with me. they take me out. they try to be polite. they're careful not to invade my personal space without at least my implied permission. in other words they show me a lot of respect. 

but, i find that often times when i'm dealing with a card carrying FA they spend an inordinate amount of time focusing on and almost always talking about my body and the bodies of other women. and when they don't it seems like a real effort for them. they don't seem to want to do anything. no dancing , no going out, no dressing for a date--in short no effort to please BBWs much except in ways that excite them. they have no problem "helping" if a woman is somewhat disabled. there are always lots eager to do that. that isn't to say that a lot who are helping us out aren't just genuinely kind. i know they are. there are much better ways to spend their time. but then those are the guys who are gentlemen in every way and not just in one fake way. but in general, for me, its often like being with a teenage guy all over again. remember,this is a big honking generalization. other women who date both and i talk about this but it doesn't get said in public much because no one wants to hurt anyone's feelings or make anyone who doesn't behave like that uncomfortable. i know its not everybody and i know my experience is limited.

i don't really have a problem with the term FA its just that i kinda question the kind of license it gives to certain people. its as though it makes it alright to seperate the woman from her body. its a FAT admirer. its a bit like the "i like big tits" t-shirt mentality in a way. its not a person who just happens to attracted to people who are soft round and plump. there is just something hard and harsh about the term FA as i usually see it expressed. i know i'm being picky picky picky but there it is. what i see sometimes is that at its worst it can be the same kind of thing you'd see around the playboy mansion or something. i know that has its place in the world. thats going to exist. i'm not a pollyanna about it. but i would still rather not encounter it as much as i do on a personal level. when i say that as a BBW i'd like more kindness and respect i really don't mean it as man bashing. i know they get a lot of mixed messages. they can behave badly and still get a lot of us to just follow around and act like its ok with us. if what i said applies to someone even in a small way then at least someone has told them and now they know. 

PS: this is not a condemnation. i'm just thinking things out.


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## superodalisque (Oct 31, 2008)

Haunted said:


> I didn't say only an Fa could Love her this Passionately, I said i have never Been this passionate with anyone before. The more and more i think about this the answer is too complicated to lay out in a forum thread. I do not just love her because she's fat, although I do worship and caress every inch of her.
> 
> What I'm really telling her is I love her and She Is stunningly Beautiful and i'm Scared of losing her Because i'm so far away, If i agreed with society and thought i was some gift to Fat girls then why did i fall for one 3000 miles away wouldn't it be more productive to tear through New England Breaking the hearts of Big girls along the way
> 
> ...



i respect your feelings for Misty very much. but i'd have to say respectfully that it sounds like fantasy to me. i personally think you only truly know a person and whether you love them by being with them day to day. but then only you can truly answer that for yourself. you never have to explain how or why you do love her anyway. if you do then you just do. but, i'm going to say this for her. if you love her so much you should be together and make the sacrifice. people don't live forever and you'll be forever kicking yourself if you waste time if you already know that you love her.

also when you said "Olwen you need to get yourself a true FA" i just interpreted it that you thought FAs were the only way for her to go because you felt so intensely for your girl in that particular way. are you really sure that other men don't feel that intensely about the women they love as well. people have different ways of expressing and experiencing feelings. there is more than one way. fatty love may be one. but there are lots of others too. it doesn't make any of them wrong or right. her belly may do it for you but for someone else it could be something else entirely. the question for Olwen is not how she should EXPECTto be loved but how would she LIKE to be loved.


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## Tragdor (Oct 31, 2008)

Most people barely understand themselves, let alone other people. Empathy can lessen the psychological distance between different people, but there is a limit to how much that can happen.

So ya, I said what everbody else in the thread has been saying


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## Haunted (Oct 31, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i respect your feelings for Misty very much. but i'd have to say respectfully that it sounds like fantasy to me. i personally think you only truly know a person and whether you love them by being with them day to day. but then only you can truly answer that for yourself. you never have to explain how or why you do love her anyway. if you do then you just do. but, i'm going to say this for her. if you love her so much you should be together and make the sacrifice. people don't live forever and you'll be forever kicking yourself if you waste time if you already know that you love her.
> 
> also when you said "Olwen you need to get yourself a true FA" i just interpreted it that you thought FAs were the only way for her to go because you felt so intensely for your girl in that particular way. are you really sure that other men don't feel that intensely about the women they love as well. people have different ways of expressing and experiencing feelings. there is more than one way. fatty love may be one. but there are lots of others too. it doesn't make any of them wrong or right. her belly may do it for you but for someone else it could be something else entirely. the question for Olwen is not how she should EXPECTto be loved but how would she LIKE to be loved.



Believe me if it were that easy i'd have moved to cali months ago unfortunately I have a house in mid remodel I'm trying to finish. I can't just sell it as is because it's a family property so i have to finish it and be sure it stays in the family, And of course most importantly I have a 4 year old daughter here and i'm not exactly prepared to move clear across the country and leave her here. Misty and i are talking and trying to find a solution that we can all deal with. Nothing worth having is easy. In time we will be together.



superodalisque said:


> i'll be so happy for you when you do experience it. its so worth the wait. i can't tell you how much i miss it.



and when i told olwen to find a true FA i was kind of Re-iterating what YOU Said, i just didn't realize the term FA was inappropriate


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## bellyjelly (Oct 31, 2008)

This thread has raised some brilliant questions.

In terms of empathy, some people are able to empathise, put themselves in another's shoes, and others can't. Fat or thin. 

How can an FA get it right? I echo what Tragdor says: it's hard enough understanding yourself let alone another person.

Just as edx said on the first page: In terms of being fat, although we fat people have many shared experiences, discomforts and so on, we're all different people with differing slants on life. My experience of being fat in Liverpool in the naughties, is probably different from someone in LA and again different from another in Bangkok.


SUPERODALISQUE makes some brilliant points in this thread. All bodies change over the years and I, too, have wondered what would become of a relationship with a FA if the fat were to go (for whatever reason). Is it the be all, end all?


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## B68 (Oct 31, 2008)

bellyjelly said:


> SUPERODALISQUE makes some brilliant points in this thread. All bodies change over the years and I, too, have wondered what would become of a relationship with a FA if the fat were to go (for whatever reason). Is it the be all, end all?



I've missed that. But i've been thinking about that a lot because an ex brought this up once. And i've talked about this on another thread.

When you're in love or when you love, you have to realize that the other might change physically. I can be paralyzed by an accident, she can have whatever you can think of. Would you stay and support? Yes, without a doubt. 

Of course it will cause an enormous strain in your relationship, but i will go for it. On the other hand, i don't know what i would say to her when i would no longer be able to give her sexual pleasure. 

Being an FA makes no difference in this case.


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## bellyjelly (Oct 31, 2008)

Perhaps, B68, you could video the wobble before the weight falls off, then revisit it prior to jumping on the bones?


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## B68 (Oct 31, 2008)

Tragdor said:


> Most people barely understand themselves, let alone other people. Empathy can lessen the psychological distance between different people, but there is a limit to how much that can happen.
> 
> So ya, I said what everbody else in the thread has been saying



That's why some threads are so interesting. In allmost every reply there's something that makes you dig in your brain to find out if your original view on things was right.

When you're really honest to yourself, you'll understand yourself a tiny bit more every day. Speaking for myself, some critical people here have made me an even wiser man than i already was


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## B68 (Oct 31, 2008)

bellyjelly said:


> Perhaps, B68, you could video the wobble before the weight falls off, then revisit it prior to jumping on the bones?



Of course i do. I'm not a fool


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## Haunted (Oct 31, 2008)

B68 said:


> That's why some threads are so interesting. In allmost every reply there's something that makes you dig in your brain to find out if your original view on things was right.
> 
> When you're really honest to yourself, you'll understand yourself a tiny bit more every day. Speaking for myself, some critical people here have made me an even wiser man than i already was



Your absolutely Right about this as soon as i think i have a good response to a thread Someone poses a question that makes me question my own post! Usually from Olwen Or Lilly Why it's them that make me think more than i usually do i will never know lol


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## Jon Blaze (Oct 31, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Many people on the boards report on what it's like to be fat: the constant well-meaning intrusions and unwanted suggestions for losing weight... the physical realities of being fat (both positive and negative)... the forced invisibility and de-sexualization (or oversexualization) of fat... the random insults shouted from passing cars... the toils of finding clothing that fits...
> 
> Clearly being fat is frequently a unique, complicated experience of itself, with both many wonderful highs and a number of disheartening lows.
> 
> My question for FAs is: How do you show your understanding of fat people's unique experiences, in your relationships with fat people? How does someone's experience of being fat play into and determine your relationship with them, and how do you respond to this? Are you more accommodating? Can you sympathize fully with the fat experience, or does it remain essentially foreign to you? ...............................................Or?



Well depending on the point of view of the person in question, I was once heavier, and shorter, which at the time it happened made my peers and some of my family members consider me fat when I was younger.

It's kind of hard for me to answer the other questions, and there's two reasons why.

-I know some situations in relation to fat are going to be similar for many if not all fat people, but I don't try to approach it trying to having an automated answer to every situation. I should be aware of certain things (And take note of certain threads here for that exact reason), but every person, regardless of size, has different experiences. That connects to the second reason:

- Minus some things that might be/are size specific, I really don't intend to make my relationship with fat women any different than one I might have with someone smaller. I want to chat, cuddle, take them out, do that romantic stuff, and just be nice you know?


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## Jon Blaze (Oct 31, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Many people on the boards report on what it's like to be fat: the constant well-meaning intrusions and unwanted suggestions for losing weight... the physical realities of being fat (both positive and negative)... the forced invisibility and de-sexualization (or oversexualization) of fat... the random insults shouted from passing cars... the toils of finding clothing that fits...
> 
> Clearly being fat is frequently a unique, complicated experience of itself, with both many wonderful highs and a number of disheartening lows.
> 
> My question for FAs is: How do you show your understanding of fat people's unique experiences, in your relationships with fat people? How does someone's experience of being fat play into and determine your relationship with them, and how do you respond to this? Are you more accommodating? Can you sympathize fully with the fat experience, or does it remain essentially foreign to you? ...............................................Or?



Well depending on the point of view of the person in question, I was once heavier, and shorter, which at the time it happened made my peers and some of my family members consider me fat when I was younger.

It's kind of hard for me to answer the other questions, and there's two reasons why.

-I know some situations in relation to fat are going to be similar for many if not all fat people, but I don't try to approach it trying to having an automated answer to every situation. I should be aware of certain things (And take note of certain threads here for that exact reason), but every person, regardless of size, has different experiences. That connects to the second reason:

- Minus some things that might be/are size specific, I really don't intend to make my relationship with fat women any different than one I might have with someone smaller. I want to chat, cuddle, take them out, do that romantic stuff, and just be nice you know?  Not that you're saying that it should be different, but I personally don't want that at all if possible. At least conceptually that is.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 31, 2008)

olwen said:


> Fasc, maybe the topic for this thread should be "Do fatties understand FAs?"



This sounds like one hella good sister thread to me....... :bow:


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## imfree (Nov 1, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> This sounds like one hella good sister thread to me....... :bow:



That's a very repable post, GEF. Ummmm......er.......
but, well, you know..........
Someone please help me.


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## runningman (Nov 1, 2008)

I haven't read this thread but 'do FAs understand fatties?' My immediate response would be does any man understand women? I don't think so. We keep trying but we just keep getting it wrong. You're just so damn complex! why can't you be more like men - eat, think about sex, work, think about sex, sleep, think about sex, football, think about sex...........


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## imfree (Nov 1, 2008)

runningman said:


> I haven't read this thread but 'do FAs understand fatties?' My immediate response would be does any man understand women? I don't think so. We keep trying but we just keep getting it wrong. You're just so damn complex! why can't you be more like men - eat, think about sex, work, think about sex, sleep, think about sex, football, think about sex...........




One picture is worth a thousand words.

If Mom would have needed to figure out
how to turn that bottom one on, I
wouldn't be here!


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## superodalisque (Nov 1, 2008)

runningman said:


> I haven't read this thread but 'do FAs understand fatties?' My immediate response would be does any man understand women? I don't think so. We keep trying but we just keep getting it wrong. You're just so damn complex! why can't you be more like men - eat, think about sex, work, think about sex, sleep, think about sex, football, think about sex...........




by jove! runningman i think you've got it!  i wish my process were so simple *sigh*. does this mean i have penis envy?


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## exile in thighville (Nov 1, 2008)

FAs see one side that fatties don't, of the hatred toward them, because we aren't necessarily fat and people will just say anything to us without holding back, assuming we're just one of them by default. Unless someone knows I'm an FA (and even sometimes when they do) I'm amazed at the shit people think it's ok to just be an asshole about. People think it's funny to do a "random" rant about "I hate those girl who wear t-shirts too small with their gut hanging out" etc. I know those people, butthead.


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## Fascinita (Nov 1, 2008)

runningman said:


> I haven't read this thread but 'do FAs understand fatties?' My immediate response would be does any man understand women? I don't think so. We keep trying but we just keep getting it wrong. You're just so damn complex! why can't you be more like men - eat, think about sex, work, think about sex, sleep, think about sex, football, think about sex...........



Well, I understand FA to include both male and female Fat Admirers; and I understand "fatties" to include both male and female fatties.

As to my being so darn complex... Thank you. I'll take that as a compliment. Let me tell you, though, that my day is not so different from yours. Minus the football. That's just icky.

Dan, are you working for the Village Voice now?


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## olwen (Nov 1, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i respect your feelings for Misty very much. but i'd have to say respectfully that it sounds like fantasy to me. i personally think you only truly know a person and whether you love them by being with them day to day. but then only you can truly answer that for yourself. you never have to explain how or why you do love her anyway. if you do then you just do. but, i'm going to say this for her. if you love her so much you should be together and make the sacrifice. people don't live forever and you'll be forever kicking yourself if you waste time if you already know that you love her.
> 
> also when you said "Olwen you need to get yourself a true FA" i just interpreted it that you thought FAs were the only way for her to go because you felt so intensely for your girl in that particular way. are you really sure that other men don't feel that intensely about the women they love as well. people have different ways of expressing and experiencing feelings. there is more than one way. fatty love may be one. but there are lots of others too. it doesn't make any of them wrong or right. her belly may do it for you but for someone else it could be something else entirely. *the question for Olwen is not how she should EXPECTto be loved but how would she LIKE to be loved.*



I expect to be treated with respect, and I expect the guy to be crazy about me mentally and physically. I don't think those are expectations that FAs can't fill. Those are expectations that all guys can fill. I don't see how being an FA should take away from that ability.


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## olwen (Nov 1, 2008)

runningman said:


> I haven't read this thread but 'do FAs understand fatties?' My immediate response would be does any man understand women? I don't think so. We keep trying but we just keep getting it wrong. You're just so damn complex! why can't you be more like men - eat, think about sex, work, think about sex, sleep, think about sex, football, think about sex...........



HA. Who says we don't.  But you know, this thread is about female fat admirers and bhms too.


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## Chimpi (Nov 1, 2008)

exile in thighville said:


> People think it's funny to do a "random" rant about "I hate those girl who wear t-shirts too small with their gut hanging out"



I hate it, too. Especially when they're not available and ready for action.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Nov 1, 2008)

Hehe, someone said penis in this thread......


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## B68 (Nov 2, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Hehe, someone said penis in this thread......



Yup, the penis is the biggest, hardest to deal with problem in this thread. 

Somehow, some of us trust these things to be our intellectual advisers... I mean, have you ever seen one...? Even when the independant thinkers try to control the threat with a firm grip, it's so headstrong that it will blow into a big mess.

And because men don't like mess, they just fall asleep.


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## Fascinita (Nov 2, 2008)

B68 said:


> Yup, the penis is the biggest, hardest to deal with problem in this thread.
> 
> Somehow, some of us trust these things to be our intellectual advisers... I mean, have you ever seen one...? Even when the independant thinkers try to control the threat with a firm grip, it's so headstrong that it will blow into a big mess.
> 
> And because men don't like mess, they just fall asleep.



Yes...  We all know how powerful penises are and how they rule everything there is and all the rest. There's no accounting for the power of penis!

*yawn*

You were more interesting when you were talking intelligently about being an FA instead of gushing forth about how crazy headstrong your pee-pee is.


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## Smushygirl (Nov 2, 2008)

B68 said:


> Yup, the penis is the biggest, hardest to deal with problem in this thread.



Are you trying to tell me something? :batting::blush:


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## superodalisque (Nov 2, 2008)

olwen said:


> I expect to be treated with respect, and I expect the guy to be crazy about me mentally and physically. I don't think those are expectations that FAs can't fill. Those are expectations that all guys can fill. I don't see how being an FA should take away from that ability.



no it shouldn't. your exactly right. but as you say there's no reason other men can't either. it just depends on the individual person. we don't disagree as much as you think. i just get a little over protective because i just hear too many people acting as though FAs are the only guys a woman who happens to be fat can attract. i just don't want anyone to make the mistake of giving someone an automatic pass or fail because he considers himself an FA or not and FA.


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## superodalisque (Nov 2, 2008)

Smushygirl said:


> Are you trying to tell me something? :batting::blush:




hehe--naughty girl!


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## olwen (Nov 2, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> no it shouldn't. your exactly right. but as you say there's no reason other men can't either. it just depends on the individual person. we don't disagree as much as you think. i just get a little over protective because i just hear too many people acting as though FAs are the only guys a woman who happens to be fat can attract. i just don't want anyone to make the mistake of giving someone an automatic pass or fail because he considers himself an FA or not and FA.



Look, the reality for a lot of fat folks, men and women alike is that there isn't a horde of people knocking down our doors to be with us, and there never has been. So the idea that there is a group of people who would be knocking down the door is an amazing one, and it makes sense to concentrate your attention on that pool of people. It's not that you ignore the people who are not FAs, it's that the people who are not tend to ignore you, and there just isn't a precedent to make you think otherwise. 

I'd think if we were giving pass/fail marks to FAs it would be based on previous experience, not some abstract idea of one. I think tho *everybody* does something like that when it comes to dating. It's not just specific to fat people and FAs. It's just human. I wouldn't think I was limiting myself by choosing to look for a partner among a pool of FAs. I'd think I was increasing my chances and saving myself a lot of heartache and automatic rejection - based on past experience. 

If a non-FA became interested in me, I'd have a lot of questions for him. If he'd never been with a fat woman before, I'd be leary about being his "test fattie." Seems like there would be a lot of uncomfortable conversations in our future together. I don't know that I'd have the energy for that. I'd only deal with that if I really really liked the guy and thought he was worth the effort. At least with an FA I'd have a fair idea of what to expect and I'd be prepared for whatever discussions/issues come up, and since they're issues I've dealt with before, I know I could handle it. There's a certain security in that. I'd know also that if he ever rejected me, it would be for some reason other than what I look like. I'd prefer to be rejected based on someone's assessment my character, rather than on my looks - despite my character. The latter seems like more of a slap in the face to me. I don't know about you SuperO, but I'm willing to bet a lot of fat people have had that happen, at least once. I think it's just human to look for ways to avoid that from ever happening again, even if that means restricting yourself to a certain pool of people. 

But you know, it's like any other thing when it comes to attraction. What if you only date within your race, religion, age group, income and education level, or region? Or what if you only dated big boobied blondes, or tall people, or brown eyed people, or thin people? Everybody does something like that. It's easy to say don't limit yourself, and we all probably shouldn't, but you know, you like what you like, or maybe some people feel like they should take what they can get. I think if you're seeing the desire to want to be with FAs as a take what you can get kind of thing...I don't see it that way.


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## superodalisque (Nov 2, 2008)

someone made the point that a woman who is fat might not understand FAs. i have to agree with that. i am not one of the ones who don't understand the attraction. i think fat on a woman is pretty myself. but i just don't get all of the other stuff like how it get expressed sometimes. but like runningman said i think its more of a man woman kind of thing.

kinda like this  : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVTyLqkez6A


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## superodalisque (Nov 2, 2008)

beautiful points Olwen! but be sure not to let the fear of the unknown drive you. any person can let you down. any guy can decide you just aren't his type even after being in a relationship a bit, FA or no. and that reason can't always be assumed to be fat. it could be how you can or can't relate to each other etc...i think that for a lot of non FAs and FAs alike, its a lot to deal with. what i'm talking about is the idea that a BBW couldn't or shouldn't be attractive to most folks at least in a surface way. and then there is all of the questioning. even FAs get a lot of the questioning about WHY they like us. thats a question we have to answer inside of ourselves. if we can't understand why someone would be attracted to us i'm not sure if either an FA or a non- FA would be too happy with that. i agree with going where the action is for a woman. but i just wish BBWs really knew the action is where ever they are. i think the main thing people keep away from is the fear, hostility and lack of confidence.


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## Fascinita (Nov 2, 2008)

olwen said:


> If a non-FA became interested in me, I'd have a lot of questions for him. If he'd never been with a fat woman before, I'd be leary about being his "test fattie." Seems like there would be a lot of uncomfortable conversations in our future together.



But if the issue of someone's being an FA is so crucial, it seems there would be a lot of uncomfortable conversations regardless. Just how can you be sure someone is an FA or not? Is it a self-identifying thing? I am just one of those people that believes actions speak louder than words, and so labels of "FA" or "not FA" would matter less to me than the way a person treated me. Over time, relationships have little to do with labels, I think.

For example: If someone seems to care about me as a person and seems to like my fat arms and the rolls around my midsection and my fat body as a whole, I am going to be a lot more interested in him/her than in someone who professes to be an "FA" but can only muster up an interest in the fattest parts of my body or is always secretly wishing I were fatter or had a monster ass or something--no matter how ecstatic he/she was around the fattest parts of me. I don't come in parts. I need to be liked as a whole, you know? Anything beyond that is just frosting on the cake, FA or not.

I don't know if that makes perfect sense.


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## Smushygirl (Nov 2, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> But if the issue of someone's being an FA is so crucial, it seems there would be a lot of uncomfortable conversations regardless. Just how can you be sure someone is an FA or not? Is it a self-identifying thing? I am just one of those people that believes actions speak louder than words, and so labels of "FA" or "not FA" would matter less to me than the way a person treated me. Over time, relationships have little to do with labels, I think.
> 
> For example: If someone seems to care about me as a person and seems to like my fat arms and the rolls around my midsection and my fat body as a whole, I am going to be a lot more interested in him/her than in someone who professes to be an "FA" but can only muster up an interest in the fattest parts of my body or is always secretly wishing I were fatter or had a monster ass or something--no matter how ecstatic he/she was around the fattest parts of me. I don't come in parts. I need to be liked as a whole, you know? Anything beyond that is just frosting on the cake, FA or not.
> 
> I don't know if that makes perfect sense.



It does to me.


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## superodalisque (Nov 2, 2008)

B68 said:


> (The following is not an attack on opinions and i only use the perspective of the male FA for the ease of reading.)
> 
> I don't think there's an answer to the original question in general.
> 
> ...



i love your definition of a fat admirer. maybe the truth is that we've been seeing a lot of fat abusers around and not enough real admirers.


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## Haunted (Nov 2, 2008)

olwen said:


> Look, the reality for a lot of fat folks, men and women alike is that there isn't a horde of people knocking down our doors to be with us, and there never has been. So the idea that there is a group of people who would be knocking down the door is an amazing one, and it makes sense to concentrate your attention on that pool of people. It's not that you ignore the people who are not FAs, it's that the people who are not tend to ignore you, and there just isn't a precedent to make you think otherwise.
> 
> I'd think if we were giving pass/fail marks to FAs it would be based on previous experience, not some abstract idea of one. I think tho *everybody* does something like that when it comes to dating. It's not just specific to fat people and FAs. It's just human. I wouldn't think I was limiting myself by choosing to look for a partner among a pool of FAs. I'd think I was increasing my chances and saving myself a lot of heartache and automatic rejection - based on past experience.
> 
> ...



well put, i believe part of what may turn many off to the whole fa idea or people who call themselves fa's is that some fa's act as if they are god's gift to fat woman. i call myself an fa mainly just to be able to let people here at dim's no which side of the fence i am on, i don't go through life advertising my Fa-ness (although some single woman would prefer it as it's been mentioned on other threads) I am for one not available, and most people i'd encounter on a day to day basis wouldn't understand the term and explaining becomes more complicated than it's worth( we really don't need to label it i think we do just to show what side of the discussion we are coming from here), and it also feels like i'd be saying well i like fat chicks so you should be grateful for me. this is not the case just because i like bigger woman does not give me license to assume i get my pick of the fatties in the bar. it's still dating and it's still hit or miss. Liking Big girls is no different from liking busty woman or blond or redheads they are still woman and i still will never understand them. 

Of course when i'm with my fatty i am proud to be with her (Because she is Freaking Gorgeous) Yes i call her my fatty (Cause Umm she's fat) and physically i love the way she feels (but i'v been through this on previous post's) 

sorry i keep revisiting this just got my mind working on the whole subject sometimes i wish my brain had an off switch


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## Fascinita (Nov 2, 2008)

Smushygirl said:


> It does to me.



Oh, you! You rock my world. :wubu::kiss2:


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## Fascinita (Nov 2, 2008)

Haunted said:


> sorry i keep revisiting this just got my mind working on the whole subject sometimes i wish my brain had an off switch



lol. It's cool, Haunted. It's good to talk about this stuff and talking about it is exactly what I hoped for when I made the thread.


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## SparklingBBW (Nov 2, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> But if the issue of someone's being an FA is so crucial, it seems there would be a lot of uncomfortable conversations regardless. Just how can you be sure someone is an FA or not? Is it a self-identifying thing? I am just one of those people that believes actions speak louder than words, and so labels of "FA" or "not FA" would matter less to me than the way a person treated me. Over time, relationships have little to do with labels, I think.
> 
> For example: If someone seems to care about me as a person and seems to like my fat arms and the rolls around my midsection and my fat body as a whole, I am going to be a lot more interested in him/her than in someone who professes to be an "FA" but can only muster up an interest in the fattest parts of my body or is always secretly wishing I were fatter or had a monster ass or something--no matter how ecstatic he/she was around the fattest parts of me.
> 
> I don't know if that makes perfect sense.



I'm not sure how to tell with the female FAs, but with the male kind, self-proclaimed FA or not...they have a pop-up button, as it were, that is your first clue. 

Okay, okay, all kidding aside, I don't pay much attention to what an FA might say in regard to whether or not they "are" an FA, I look at what he does. Does he take me out? Does he hold my hand or smooch on me in public? How is the sex...is it mutually enjoyable? Will he meet my friends? Will I meet his (or his family?). I think you're right on the money when you say that relationships are what matters, not labels. :happy:

.


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## Fascinita (Nov 2, 2008)

Genarose54 said:


> I'm not sure how to tell with the female FAs, but with the male kind, self-proclaimed FA or not...they have a pop-up button, as it were, that is your first clue.



Honey, FA or not, they all have a pop-up button. 



> Okay, okay, all kidding aside, I don't pay much attention to what an FA might say in regard to whether or not they "are" an FA, I look at what he does. *Does he take me out? * *Does he hold my hand or smooch on me in public? How is the sex...is it mutually enjoyable?** Will he meet my friends? Will I meet his (or his family?). * I think you're right on the money when you say that relationships are what matters, not labels. :happy:
> 
> .



Yes! YES! YESSSSSS!!!!!!!!


All kidding aside... Great points!

(((Gena))) :wubu:


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## olwen (Nov 2, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> beautiful points Olwen! but be sure not to let the fear of the unknown drive you. any person can let you down. any guy can decide you just aren't his type even after being in a relationship a bit, FA or no. and that reason can't always be assumed to be fat. it could be how you can or can't relate to each other etc...i think that for a lot of non FAs and FAs alike, its a lot to deal with. what i'm talking about is the idea that a BBW couldn't or shouldn't be attractive to most folks at least in a surface way. and then there is all of the questioning. even FAs get a lot of the questioning about WHY they like us. thats a question we have to answer inside of ourselves. if we can't understand why someone would be attracted to us i'm not sure if either an FA or a non- FA would be too happy with that. i agree with going where the action is for a woman. but i just wish BBWs really knew the action is where ever they are. i think the main thing people keep away from is the fear, hostility and lack of confidence.



The fear of the unknown doesn't drive me at all. Like I said, if I really liked a guy I'd deal with a certain level of fat people ignorance. The older I get, the less I want to deal with it. Since my fat is my primary identifier, I need to know that my friends and lovers understand me on that level, and I need to know they are familiar with the things fat people go thru. To have to catch someone up to me as far as the bedroom is concerned is just a pain in the ass. I just don't have the patience for it. I think maybe this is the divergence point in this discussion. I think how much you identify as a fat person might have a lot to do with how you relate to FAs and what your understanding of one is....

You make good points too. I'm not dismissing them out of hand, I'm just speaking to my experience. I've been madly in love with three guys in my life who each told me that they loved me deeply but they just couldn't be with me because I was fat, so I KNOW they rejected me because of what I looked like. That's three times too many. I'm not saying looks are the only reason one can be rejected, but for a person who identifies as fat, it's no ahem, small matter. 



Fascinita said:


> But if the issue of someone's being an FA is so crucial, it seems there would be a lot of uncomfortable conversations regardless. Just how can you be sure someone is an FA or not? Is it a self-identifying thing? I am just one of those people that believes actions speak louder than words, and so labels of "FA" or "not FA" would matter less to me than the way a person treated me. Over time, relationships have little to do with labels, I think.
> 
> For example: If someone seems to care about me as a person and seems to like my fat arms and the rolls around my midsection and my fat body as a whole, I am going to be a lot more interested in him/her than in someone who professes to be an "FA" but can only muster up an interest in the fattest parts of my body or is always secretly wishing I were fatter or had a monster ass or something--no matter how ecstatic he/she was around the fattest parts of me. I don't come in parts. I need to be liked as a whole, you know? Anything beyond that is just frosting on the cake, FA or not.
> 
> I don't know if that makes perfect sense.



How can I know if someone is an FA? I ask early on in the getting to know you process. You just have to communicate - if it matters to a fat person enough to have a discussion about it. If the guy treats you the way you want to be treated and you don't have any discussions about him being an FA and it never comes up then who cares. Just go with it. I'm not saying don't ever date non-FAs. I'm saying it's easier for *me* if he is one because it means I won't have to have conversations I don't want to have or deal with situations I don't want to deal with. Does it mean I'll turn away non-FAs out of hand? Of course not. It just means I don't expect someone who isn't attracted to fat people to be interested - based on past experiences. Why all the hubbub about labels? I like them because they can offer up structure, a certain set of rules, and familiar expectations. True, they can also be limiting, but for me, knowing there's a box helps me to be able to think around it. That's just how my mind works.


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## Fascinita (Nov 2, 2008)

olwen said:


> How can I know if someone is an FA? I ask early on in the getting to know you process. You just have to communicate - if it matters to a fat person enough to have a discussion about it. If the guy treats you the way you want to be treated and you don't have any discussions about him being an FA and it never comes up then who cares. Just go with it. I'm not saying don't ever date non-FAs. I'm saying it's easier for *me* if he is one because it means I won't have to have conversations I don't want to have or deal with situations I don't want to deal with. Does it mean I'll turn away non-FAs out of hand? Of course not. It just means I don't expect someone who isn't attracted to fat people to be interested - based on past experiences. Why all the hubbub about labels? I like them because they can offer up structure, a certain set of rules, and familiar expectations. True, they can also be limiting, but for me, knowing there's a box helps me to be able to think around it. That's just how my mind works.



Fair enough, olwen.  I think I see what you mean.


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## olwen (Nov 2, 2008)

Haunted said:


> well put, i believe part of what may turn many off to the whole fa idea or people who call themselves fa's is that some fa's act as if they are god's gift to fat woman. i call myself an fa mainly just to be able to let people here at dim's no which side of the fence i am on, i don't go through life advertising my Fa-ness (although some single woman would prefer it as it's been mentioned on other threads) I am for one not available, and most people i'd encounter on a day to day basis wouldn't understand the term and explaining becomes more complicated than it's worth( we really don't need to label it i think we do just to show what side of the discussion we are coming from here), and it also feels like i'd be saying well i like fat chicks so you should be grateful for me. this is not the case just because i like bigger woman does not give me license to assume i get my pick of the fatties in the bar. it's still dating and it's still hit or miss. Liking Big girls is no different from liking busty woman or blond or redheads they are still woman and i still will never understand them.
> 
> Of course when i'm with my fatty i am proud to be with her (Because she is Freaking Gorgeous) Yes i call her my fatty (Cause Umm she's fat) and physically i love the way she feels (but i'v been through this on previous post's)
> 
> sorry i keep revisiting this just got my mind working on the whole subject sometimes i wish my brain had an off switch



See, here's the thing. Guys who are only attracted to thin women who act like they are gods gift to women are called players. When talking about fat women they're only seen as the asshats they are, but instead of making all men look bad, they make only male FAs look bad. It's interesting. 

Maybe we spend too much time talking about male FAs as if you guys aren't you know, guys. I'm not saying guys are all bad, I'm just saying we act like FAs should be thought of as different from other guys because we are fat, and might see ourselves as different. And in a way you are different, but only in that I expect FAs to be more enlightened than non FAs. I'm not sure I can properly verbalize how I expect you all to be enlightened, but I think that is an underlying message in the discussion about FAness.


----------



## superodalisque (Nov 2, 2008)

olwen said:


> The fear of the unknown doesn't drive me at all. Like I said, if I really liked a guy I'd deal with a certain level of fat people ignorance. The older I get, the less I want to deal with it. Since my fat is my primary identifier, I need to know that my friends and lovers understand me on that level, and I need to know they are familiar with the things fat people go thru. To have to catch someone up to me as far as the bedroom is concerned is just a pain in the ass. I just don't have the patience for it. I think maybe this is the divergence point in this discussion. I think how much you identify as a fat person might have a lot to do with how you relate to FAs and what your understanding of one is....
> 
> You make good points too. I'm not dismissing them out of hand, I'm just speaking to my experience. I've been madly in love with three guys in my life who each told me that they loved me deeply but they just couldn't be with me because I was fat, so I KNOW they rejected me because of what I looked like. That's three times too many. I'm not saying looks are the only reason one can be rejected, but for a person who identifies as fat, it's no ahem, small matter.
> 
> ...



i wonder about the fat ignorance thing anyway since all fat women are different. some have issues with certain things and some don't . every woman no matter what her size is has certain issues. they might not be fat girl issues but they are there. like i have a friend who does not ride in SUVs either because she injured a knee jogging etc... i have another friends who is sure eveyone notices she is jewish and is taking something out on her--yeah a bit paranoid but she feels its real. 

i think the actual mechanics are always something that can be learned by someone who cares who is really willing. FAs even have a learning curve. and there is something to be said about giving something too much attention. i mean, i have a large chest but if a guy who likes me assumed they make my back hurt or knew all about bras and how to accomodate my large chest... well i wouldn't exactly feel that his mind was in the right place

the thing is not about recognizing an FA but recognizing a good guy. like i said --an FA is just as likely to leave you for being too thin or not his particular shape as a guy who would leave you because you are too fat and not shaped as he might like. they are different sides of the same coin. they are men who are run moreso by they sexual preference than some other men might be. there are extremes on both ends. but there are a lot of men in the middle who fully appreciate all kinds of women too.

but i think you are right. if something is important to you you have to be able to discuss it. if you can't talk to somebody about all of your concerns its hard to do anything with that anyway. the thing is asking them how they approach being with a woman who is fat is much more important than their being a card carrying FA. but often i find that actions are worth much more than any words. just go by how he treats you and how he makes you feel when your together. FA or not, if you can't feel comfortable with him then you know he isn't the one.


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## Haunted (Nov 2, 2008)

olwen said:


> See, here's the thing. Guys who are only attracted to thin women who act like they are gods gift to women are called players. When talking about fat women they're only seen as the asshats they are, but instead of making all men look bad, they make only male FAs look bad. It's interesting.
> 
> Maybe we spend too much time talking about male FAs as if you guys aren't you know, guys. I'm not saying guys are all bad, I'm just saying we act like FAs should be thought of as different from other guys because we are fat, and might see ourselves as different. And in a way you are different, but only in that I expect FAs to be more enlightened than non FAs. I'm not sure I can properly verbalize how I expect you all to be enlightened, but I think that is an underlying message in the discussion about FAness.



Another thing to consider is alot of BBW's are uncomfortable in their own bodies so to have a guy approach and be genuinely attracted to them automatically makes them leary of what this guys intentions are.

also i could understand and have been in the situation where the woman is not comfortable with her body and yet an fa love's the feel of their bodies so you end up in this awkward scenario where the FA wants to enjoy the BBW but the BBW is very uncomfortable allowing this.

It seems a major difference is that you stated that your size defines you which leads me to believe you are accepting of your bbw-ness (LOL) where as many woman have not accepted themselves. 
You also seem to have a very confident attitude. and could appreciate being loved as is. Some woman get weirded out being appreciated and touched the way an Fa will


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## B68 (Nov 2, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> For example: If someone seems to care about me as a person and seems to like my fat arms and the rolls around my midsection and my fat body as a whole, I am going to be a lot more interested in him/her than in someone who professes to be an "FA" but can only muster up an interest in the fattest parts of my body or is always secretly wishing I were fatter or had a monster ass or something--no matter how ecstatic he/she was around the fattest parts of me. I don't come in parts. I need to be liked as a whole, you know? Anything beyond that is just frosting on the cake, FA or not.
> 
> I don't know if that makes perfect sense.



I think it makes perfect sense too. The problem IS the penis though. And i was more serious than you thought. All right, let's change penis in sexdrive. What i want to say is this: It's up to how grown up we are. When a man, FA or not, isn't grown up, he's heading for trouble. He indeed will look at you as parts of a body and he just sees you as a sexual object. 

An FA/man who's grown up, knows what he likes as a whole and he's ready to wait for his personal perfect woman. Even if she'll never show up. 

He won't settle for less and he certainly won't abuse a woman who's not his ideal. 

I think it makes sense for both parties to look for a grown up.


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## Fascinita (Nov 2, 2008)

B68 said:


> I think it makes perfect sense too. The problem IS the penis though. And i was more serious than you thought. All right, let's change penis in sexdrive. What i want to say is this: It's up to how grown up we are. When a man, FA or not, isn't grown up, he's heading for trouble. He indeed will look at you as parts of a body and he just sees you as a sexual object.
> 
> An FA/man who's grown up, knows what he likes as a whole and he's ready to wait for his personal perfect woman. Even if she'll never show up.
> 
> ...



I think that many men live under the assumption that women are only capable of love and not of sexual desire--as if the two ideas _always _had to be separated. Women have genitals and sexual drives, just as well as men. So I wanted to clear up and make sure we're not proceeding from the misconception that only men see others as sexual objects. Nor is there a good argument for, "Men want sex more than women do and it's biologically determined and that's just the way it is." These arguments are often no more than tautologies, frequently used to justify "bad" behavior in men more than anything. With me they hold no ground.

Your point about adults not settling for anything but full adult love is well taken, I want to stress. I think it makes sense for adults to look for grown-up love, too. It may be a matter of maturity, more than of gender.

You're kinda cute, by the way.


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## B68 (Nov 2, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> I think that many men live under the assumption that women are only capable of love and not of sexual desire--as if the two ideas _always _had to be separated. Women have genitals and sexual drives, just as well as men. So I wanted to clear up and make sure we're not proceeding from the misconception that only men see others as sexual objects. Nor is there a good argument for, "Men want sex more than women do and it's biologically determined and that's just the way it is." These arguments are often no more than tautologies, frequently used to justify "bad" behavior in men more than anything. With me they hold no ground.
> 
> Your point about adults not settling for anything but full adult love is well taken, I want to stress. I think it makes sense for adults to look for grown-up love, too. It may be a matter of maturity, more than of gender.
> 
> You're kinda cute, by the way.



I know, i allways assume others to understand that i talk in general, genderwise. That can be tricky. 

I'm very well aware of female sexual desire. I'm actually more feministic about that than some women i've known. 

Much more fun for both if all matches up. Sex and love.

And ehh... kinda cute... Yup, no more no less


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## IrishBard (Nov 2, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Many people on the boards report on what it's like to be fat: the constant well-meaning intrusions and unwanted suggestions for losing weight... the physical realities of being fat (both positive and negative)... the forced invisibility and de-sexualization (or oversexualization) of fat... the random insults shouted from passing cars... the toils of finding clothing that fits...
> 
> 
> > Is that not the same with everyone?
> ...


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## tonynyc (Nov 2, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Your point about adults not settling for anything but full adult love is well taken, I want to stress. I think it makes sense for adults to look for grown-up love, too. It may be a matter of maturity, more than of gender.



It's also a matter of circumstances as there are many folks that are in a relationship because it's a matter of convience.


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## Fascinita (Nov 2, 2008)

IrishBard said:


> Is that not the same with everyone?
> 
> doesn't a goth face similar problems, invisiblity, de-sexualisation (or oversexualisation), physical difficulties of wearing all black in summer, random insults shouted at from passing cars, toils of finding black cloths? Or a mod? Or a nerd? or a indie kid?
> 
> ...



This I love because it pretends that you, IrishBard, have all the answers and know exactly how to deal with the problems of fatphobia AND because it manages to bypass an opportunity to talk about a variety of personal experiences from a particular focus of "understanding each other" in favor of "Hey, you're fat and I have bad teeth... Deal with it!"

Classy! Emotionally blunted! Yum. Just what I wanted for dinner.


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## Fascinita (Nov 2, 2008)

tonynyc said:


> It's also a matter of circumstances as there are many folks that are in a relationship because it's a matter of convience.



Good point, Tony. Takes effort, right? Only sometimes we don't have what it takes and fall short on it. Convenience is... well... convenient.


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## IrishBard (Nov 2, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> This I love because it pretends that you, IrishBard, have all the answers and know exactly how to deal with the problems of fatphobia AND because it manages to bypass an opportunity to talk about a variety of personal experiences from a particular focus of "understanding each other" in favor of "Hey, you're fat and I have bad teeth... Deal with it!"
> 
> Classy! Emotionally blunted! Yum. Just what I wanted for dinner.



I'm sorry it came out that way, I was trying to put across the idea that society, as a whole, hates difference and that I've buckled under its pressure on a number of occasions. 

Being fat, in my belief, is like being a goth, its a life-style choice, which makes it more tradgic to see such life-style choices not being taken into account in the same way that race, sex and class have been taken into account. 

as a Life-style choice, people expect you to change it if they don't like what you're doing, and that just can't happen for most people. then they are presented with a number of options, to talk about it with friends, to shut everyone else off, to change to their preferences (like I did, and I'm not proud of it), and so on...

(digging a hole, bard, digging a hole)

the point I was trying to make is that People can't comprehend why people have made certain life-style choices, and thus don't like it. understanding is the key, and if people are not willing to listen to other points of veiw, then all we can do is to fight fire with fire, so to speak. 

I really am not making any sense here, am I?


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## Fascinita (Nov 2, 2008)

IrishBard said:


> I'm sorry it came out that way, I was trying to put across the idea that society, as a whole, hates difference and that I've buckled under its pressure on a number of occasions.
> 
> Being fat, in my belief, is like being a goth, its a life-style choice, which makes it more tradgic to see such life-style choices not being taken into account in the same way that race, sex and class have been taken into account.
> 
> ...



Thank you for saying more. 

The thing I want to say is that being fat is not a lifestyle choice. Many of us eat healthy and exercise daily, but the weight stays. Some of us are recovering from years of trying to "maintain" an "acceptable" weight by eating next to nothing and spending more time at the gym than Martha Stewart spends sleeping in a week--given the choice of making ourselves sick to stay thin against what may be perhaps a genetically determined weight range (damaged knees from too much exercise, self-hate, constant anxiety about maintaining weight, making ourselves throw up to stay thin, etc.) OR of letting ourselves "go," many people find they prefer to be OK with their bodies as they are... it's less destructive in the end.

SO it's not exactly like choose life choose a job choose black clothing choose a fucking big television.

You haven't dug a hole.  We're just talking. OK?


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## B68 (Nov 2, 2008)

tonynyc said:


> It's also a matter of circumstances as there are many folks that are in a relationship because it's a matter of convience.



It's great if both really feel convenient in such a situation. I know a lot of people who do and a lot who don't. 

I won't like a woman to be just comfortable with me because i make noise and fill the room a bit.

In the Netherlands we have a saying (probebly most countries have something similar) 'i love her so much that i'll eat her shit'. Maybe it sounds harsh, but i think it's beautiful. It describes exactly how love and sexual desire become all you can possibly feel for someone. 

If you had this feeling once, you never settle for less. Or at least, i won't.


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## Fascinita (Nov 2, 2008)

B68 said:


> 'i love her so much that i'll eat her shit'



Very romantic, actually, in its own transgressive way. Why should anyone settle for anything less than full top-to-bottom, guts-n-all love?  

This does seem to set a high standard for how much love a person is capable of. I'm so glad you mentioned it. lol


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## Haunted (Nov 2, 2008)

B68 said:


> 'i love her so much that i'll eat her shit'. Maybe it sounds harsh, but i think it's beautiful. It describes exactly how love and sexual desire become all you can possibly feel for someone.





Fascinita said:


> Very romantic, actually, in its own transgressive way. Why should anyone settle for anything less than full top-to-bottom, guts-n-all love?
> 
> This does seem to set a high standard for how much love a person is capable of. I'm so glad you mentioned it. lol



The figurative Meaning is very intense and beautiful and i have felt it, It's almost as if there is Nothing, I mean Nothing i wouldn't do for her 

But in the literal meaning it's a little Umm Hard To Swallow :eat1:


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## Fascinita (Nov 2, 2008)

Haunted said:


> The figurative Meaning is very intense and beautiful and i have felt it, It's almost as if there is Nothing, I mean Nothing i wouldn't do for her
> 
> But in the literal meaning it's a little Umm Hard To Swallow :eat1:



Yeah. lol I meant to praise the figurative meaning only. Hadn't even considered the literal! Yes, indeedy.


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## olwen (Nov 2, 2008)

Haunted said:


> Another thing to consider is alot of BBW's are uncomfortable in their own bodies so to have a guy approach and be genuinely attracted to them automatically makes them leary of what this guys intentions are.
> 
> also i could understand and have been in the situation where the woman is not comfortable with her body and yet an fa love's the feel of their bodies so you end up in this awkward scenario where the FA wants to enjoy the BBW but the BBW is very uncomfortable allowing this.
> 
> ...



Exactly. I am comfortable, so I like being touched everywhere. I wouldn't have to teach an FA what to do with my body. He would touch me without fear, whereas a non-FA wouldn't know what to do and he might just sort of choose to not touch anything he's not used to seeing. An FA would revel in all my parts, and I like that. I don't have to wonder if he knows what to expect when I take my clothes off, and I know an FA wouldn't freak out. If a non-FA expressed interest in me, I'd wonder and worry about that. It would be like fumbling around like it was your first time. Awkward.


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## olwen (Nov 2, 2008)

IrishBard said:


> I'm sorry it came out that way, I was trying to put across the idea that society, as a whole, hates difference and that I've buckled under its pressure on a number of occasions.
> 
> Being fat, in my belief, is like being a goth, its a life-style choice, which makes it more tradgic to see such life-style choices not being taken into account in the same way that race, sex and class have been taken into account.
> 
> ...



Being fat is not a lifestyle choice for every fat person. It may in fact be for some, but for the rest of us it's just the way we were born. And comparing fatness to being a goth or a geek just trivializes the experiences of fat people. It's not at all the same.


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## olwen (Nov 2, 2008)

B68 said:


> It's great if both really feel convenient in such a situation. I know a lot of people who do and a lot who don't.
> 
> I won't like a woman to be just comfortable with me because i make noise and fill the room a bit.
> 
> ...



Ha. That's an awesome proverb. We don't say that here. Maybe the closest thing is "I'd die for you." But I like yours better.


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## Haunted (Nov 2, 2008)

olwen said:


> Exactly. I am comfortable, so I like being touched everywhere. I wouldn't have to teach an FA what to do with my body. He would touch me without fear, whereas a non-FA wouldn't know what to do and he might just sort of choose to not touch anything he's not used to seeing. An FA would revel in all my parts, and I like that. I don't have to wonder if he knows what to expect when I take my clothes off, and I know an FA wouldn't freak out. If a non-FA expressed interest in me, I'd wonder and worry about that. It would be like fumbling around like it was your first time. Awkward.



My first time with Misty was my first time with a confident BBW and her first time with an FA. It wasn't actually awkward but i was surprised that i was able to touch her all over and explore her with no resistance from her, and she was shocked at how i loved touching her and how pleasurable it was to be treated (for lack of better phrasing) a Desirable Woman. of course she was a little worried about how i'd react to seeing her in all her glory and i was worried about coming across as creepy for wanting to touch her belly. It was amazing how comfortable we where with each other from the start. I could go into detail about how i felt seeing her for the first time etc But i think i'v made it clear how she absolutely blows my mind on so many levels. The ultimate bonus to her being Happy with her body and me being an Fa is that there is no part of her thats off limits she enjoys every caress and every squeeze. My ex had certain parts that made her uncomfortable for me to touch. and your right With Misty she isn't just parts i can enjoy all of her!


But Yes Olwen when it's known that you are confident with yourself as you are and you are with a guy who makes no bones about being attracted to the same it cuts out alot of the bull and can make for a much less awkward experience


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## imfree (Nov 2, 2008)

Haunted said:


> My first time with Misty was my first time with a confident BBW and her first time with an FA. It wasn't actually awkward but i was surprised that i was able to touch her all over and explore her with no resistance from her, and she was shocked at how i loved touching her and how pleasurable it was to be treated (for lack of better phrasing) a Desirable Woman. of course she was a little worried about how i'd react to seeing her in all her glory and i was worried about coming across as creepy for wanting to touch her belly. It was amazing how comfortable we where with each other from the start. I could go into detail about how i felt seeing her for the first time etc But i think i'v made it clear how she absolutely blows my mind on so many levels. The ultimate bonus to her being Happy with her body and me being an Fa is that there is no part of her thats off limits she enjoys every caress and every squeeze. My ex had certain parts that made her uncomfortable for me to touch. and your right With Misty she isn't just parts i can enjoy all of her!
> 
> 
> But Yes Olwen when it's known that you are confident with yourself as you are and you are with a guy who makes no bones about being attracted to the same it cuts out alot of the bull and can make for a much less awkward experience



Wow, what a beautiful post!


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## The Orange Mage (Nov 2, 2008)

Haunted said:


> My first time with Misty was my first time with a confident BBW and her first time with an FA. It wasn't actually awkward but i was surprised that i was able to touch her all over and explore her with no resistance from her, and she was shocked at how i loved touching her and how pleasurable it was to be treated (for lack of better phrasing) a Desirable Woman. of course she was a little worried about how i'd react to seeing her in all her glory and i was worried about coming across as creepy for wanting to touch her belly. It was amazing how comfortable we where with each other from the start. I could go into detail about how i felt seeing her for the first time etc But i think i'v made it clear how she absolutely blows my mind on so many levels. The ultimate bonus to her being Happy with her body and me being an Fa is that there is no part of her thats off limits she enjoys every caress and every squeeze. My ex had certain parts that made her uncomfortable for me to touch. and your right With Misty she isn't just parts i can enjoy all of her!
> 
> 
> But Yes Olwen when it's known that you are confident with yourself as you are and you are with a guy who makes no bones about being attracted to the same it cuts out alot of the bull and can make for a much less awkward experience



I hear that. It's a very uneasy feeling when you don't know if she's cool with your FA-ness, let alone her own body, but what's even worse is when there's actual dislike of the fact you're an FA...dislike of your attraction to belly, and all the other fat bits like upper arms, thighs, love handles, etc., that normal people don't even pay attention to. That and I'm a terribly touch-oriented person...it's my big way of showing affection. Restraining myself isn't very fun at all, as you might guess. :|


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## Haunted (Nov 2, 2008)

The Orange Mage said:


> I hear that. It's a very uneasy feeling when you don't know if she's cool with your FA-ness, let alone her own body, but what's even worse is when there's actual dislike of the fact you're an FA...dislike of your attraction to belly, and all the other fat bits like upper arms, thighs, love handles, etc., that normal people don't even pay attention to. That and I'm a terribly touch-oriented person...it's my big way of showing affection. Restraining myself isn't very fun at all, as you might guess. :|



Dude, Having a girl be cool and actually like it is the best, She has these new back roll's that i can't seem to stop grabbing and she says she loves the way it feels when i do. I Love Tucking My hands under Her belly! I love how smooth and soft the skin feels under there and how warm it is.

Thats probably why i continually Rave about the physical side of our relationship because i have never been so physically attracted and have never been as open with one person as i am with Misty.


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## Fascinita (Nov 2, 2008)

Haunted said:


> Dude, Having a girl be cool and actually like it is the best, She has these new back roll's that i can't seem to stop grabbing and she says she loves the way it feels when i do. I Love Tucking My hands under Her belly! I love how smooth and soft the skin feels under there and how warm it is.
> 
> Thats probably why i continually Rave about the physical side of our relationship because i have never been so physically attracted and have never been as open with one person as i am with Misty.



Mmmkay. Ahem.  Thank you for sharing, Haunted! It makes some of us jealous and gives some of us hope.

Let's talk some more about FAs understanding fatties: 

When the fatty is angry at or bummed out by the anti-fat world, can you handle that? Hmmm? Can you?

Inquiring fatties want to know.

:bow:


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## Haunted (Nov 2, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Mmmkay. Ahem.  Thank you for sharing, Haunted! It makes some of us jealous and gives some of us hope.
> 
> Let's talk some more about FAs understanding fatties:
> 
> ...



Sorry if i got offtrack and yes for your information I support her through everything and anything. 

why do i feel like you look at me as so one track 

there's enough aggravation and sadness in our lives that i don't want to dredge it all up here. It's not all roses and butterflies, if you haven't read any of my other post's or our Blog. I am In NH She Is in California, every night we talk on skype I call her every morning, And between each job during the day. we text nonstop back and forth, most nights i fight back tears cause she's not beside me in bed we keep skype running all night with lights on in our rooms so we can hear each other breathing or snoring and see one another if we wake up at night. we are both going through divorces and trying to get our lives back. If it wasn't for my daughter i would have transferred to cali months ago. There is so much more i could go into but this isn't the place for it. So yeah i have her back and i hate that i'm not there with her to do more. i beat myself up daily because i feel helpless sometimes. 

To be honest i haven't seen her Mad at the _*Anti fat*_ world I have however seen her mad at the world in general i'v seen her stressed out, I'v been stressed out, We have fought. we have gone to bed mad at each other. as i said in an earlier post, i will not stand here and tell you i understand a fatty, hell i barely understand myself sometimes!


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## Fascinita (Nov 2, 2008)

Haunted said:


> Sorry if i got offtrack and yes for your information I support her through everything and anything.
> 
> why do i feel like you look at me as so one track
> 
> ...




Aww, no. Thanks for your honesty, actually. It brings a lot to this thread. I was just being an old fuddy duddy as I am wont to do from time to time  And I _have_ noticed your posts about each other and I support the two of you. Rock on. And post on. :happy:


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## KaliCurves (Nov 2, 2008)

Ok I need to jump in here since I am the Fatty!

Let me tell you Haunted does understand more then he thinks or even knows. I do have my own fears of being out in public, or at some ones house BUT Never when I’m with him. He is always conscious and aware of my size and limits. 
Let me post a few examples:


We was at his mother’s for dinner and he made a conscious effort to find me the sturdiest chair and widest that there was available for me to sit in. He did this without making a scene since this was only the first time I had met his mom and part of his family.

&#8226;	We went to Boston for the day because I had never been. And if you have never been let me tell you there is A LOT of walking. He kept checking in with me to see if I needed to rest or needed a drink or what not.

&#8226;	Same goes for anytime we are out in public; he asks if I would like to be dropped at the door, or finds the closes spot possible to park.

&#8226;	We went shopping for shoes for a wedding, got down on his knees in the store to help me try on shoes. I don’t know of to many men who would go shoe shopping to start with, let alone get down on the floor and help put on shoes. 

This man is the definition of a Fat Admirer, now only does he love me for my individuality, and personality, he loves my body and all it entails good or bad.






Fascinita said:


> Aww, no. Thanks for your honesty, actually. It brings a lot to this thread. I was just being an old fuddy duddy as I am wont to do from time to time  And I _have_ noticed your posts about each other and I support the two of you. Rock on. And post on. :happy:





Fascinita said:


> Mmmkay. Ahem.  Thank you for sharing, Haunted! It makes some of us jealous and gives some of us hope.
> 
> Let's talk some more about FAs understanding fatties:
> 
> ...





Haunted said:


> Sorry if i got offtrack and yes for your information I support her through everything and anything.
> 
> why do i feel like you look at me as so one track
> 
> ...


----------



## Fascinita (Nov 3, 2008)

KaliCurves said:


> Ok I need to jump in here since I am the Fatty!



Hello, the Fatty! I am another Fatty. Thanks for adding to the conversation. It sounds like you two have a great thing going and are wonderfully crazy about each other. Kudos!

Keep the understanding flowing, y'all.


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## Haunted (Nov 3, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Aww, no. Thanks for your honesty, actually. It brings a lot to this thread. I was just being an old fuddy duddy as I am wont to do from time to time  And I _have_ noticed your posts about each other and I support the two of you. Rock on. And post on. :happy:



Well Thanks and i apologize for the knee jerk reaction I'v been attacked a few times on the boards here (not by any one on this thread), and i get defensive sometimes because of it.


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## KaliCurves (Nov 3, 2008)

Ok now you two hug !!! ROFL I just love happy endings... 



Fascinita said:


> Aww, no. Thanks for your honesty, actually. It brings a lot to this thread. I was just being an old fuddy duddy as I am wont to do from time to time  And I _have_ noticed your posts about each other and I support the two of you. Rock on. And post on. :happy:





Haunted said:


> Well Thanks and i apologize for the knee jerk reaction I'v been attacked a few times on the boards here (not by any one on this thread), and i get defensive sometimes because of it.


----------



## Fascinita (Nov 3, 2008)

Haunted said:


> Well Thanks and i apologize for the knee jerk reaction I'v been attacked a few times on the boards here (not by any one on this thread), and i get defensive sometimes because of it.





KaliCurves said:


> Ok now you two hug !!! ROFL I just love happy endings...



Hehe lol Cool.  

You kids make me smile.


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## shazz2602 (Nov 3, 2008)

I personally think that FA's can sympathize with big or fat people, but they can't really understand how it feels.
In an average day to get stared at or looked down upon because your big can hurt and because everyone deals with these things in there own way its not easy to understand how it feels.
My boyfriend is a big bloke but he doesn't get stared at or frowned upon because of it, but being a woman who is very over weight i do.
I think big men get a better deal out of being big, they seem to go less unnoticed and seem to be more accepted by society, unlike big women.


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## EtobicokeFA (Nov 3, 2008)

shazz2602 said:


> I personally think that FA's can sympathize with big or fat people, but they can't really understand how it feels.
> In an average day to get stared at or looked down upon because your big can hurt and because everyone deals with these things in there own way its not easy to understand how it feels.
> My boyfriend is a big bloke but he doesn't get stared at or frowned upon because of it, but being a woman who is very over weight i do.
> I think big men get a better deal out of being big, they seem to go less unnoticed and seem to be more accepted by society, unlike big women.



While I agree that it maybe harder for a man to understand what a women goes through, but I don't agree that a man is incapable of understanding. 

I believe that it all comes down to a willingness to understand.


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## GordoNegro (Nov 3, 2008)

shazz2602 said:


> I personally think that FA's can sympathize with big or fat people, but they can't really understand how it feels.
> In an average day to get stared at or looked down upon because your big can hurt and because everyone deals with these things in there own way its not easy to understand how it feels.
> My boyfriend is a big bloke but he doesn't get stared at or frowned upon because of it, but being a woman who is very over weight i do.
> I think big men get a better deal out of being big, they seem to go less unnoticed and seem to be more accepted by society, unlike big women.



I do have to agree as FA/FFA can sympathize but not empathize; as to actually live with the looks, stares, comments, whispers on a consistent basis whether an FA/FFA is beside you or not, can be tiresome.
Though I have to say taller bhms do appear get more love/'a pass' as opposed to their shorter, more rotund brethren (myself included).


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## IrishBard (Nov 3, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Thank you for saying more.
> 
> The thing I want to say is that being fat is not a lifestyle choice. Many of us eat healthy and exercise daily, but the weight stays. Some of us are recovering from years of trying to "maintain" an "acceptable" weight by eating next to nothing and spending more time at the gym than Martha Stewart spends sleeping in a week--given the choice of making ourselves sick to stay thin against what may be perhaps a genetically determined weight range (damaged knees from too much exercise, self-hate, constant anxiety about maintaining weight, making ourselves throw up to stay thin, etc.) OR of letting ourselves "go," many people find they prefer to be OK with their bodies as they are... it's less destructive in the end.
> 
> ...



I believe that it's not a matter of genetics, but its a matter of social pressures (I did sociology at A level, not biology, so my oppinion differs). Society says, however blatant or subliminal "Thin is good, acheive it no-matter what the cost", sowing the seeds of paranoia about our weight into our subconcious at a very early age. Society makes people fight their "Inner calling" torwards being fat or to listening to slipknot rather than girls aloud and so on to be socially exceptable, which is by no means trivialising the struggle fat people are presented with, but to present it from another point of view. to say that everyone has societial pressures on them, some have less because they buckle more easily, and probably have an unhappier life for it, but some decide to be atlas and take more because of them saying "You know what? I like being fat, it feels good, it feels me." Or "I like being a goth, it's an identity i want to be proud of." and so on.

I'm saying hold your head's high, be proud of the fact that society hates you, and stick it to the man because of that. People may not like it, but hey, they are afraid of something different. If you feel good about it, in your corest of cores, heart of hearts, know you feel good about who you are, then you've won and society can do jack shit about it.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Nov 3, 2008)

Just feel the need to point out that some FAs/FFAs are fat themselves.....so I assume this thread is addressing thin FAs only. That being said, it makes me ask the question, does anyone see fat FAs in a different light?


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## Fascinita (Nov 3, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Just feel the need to point out that some FAs/FFAs are fat themselves.....so I assume this thread is addressing thin FAs only. That being said, it makes me ask the question, does anyone see fat FAs in a different light?



Good point. One of the first people who responded to the thread was imfree, who identified as a BHMFA. I guess I was thinking of thin FAs when I posed the question, since I was thinking in terms of "understanding the fat experience." But the question could apply across gender, too, since men and women often experience body scrutiny differently. And I think probably many of the respondents here have been fat to some extent. No one has zero body fat, after all.


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## southernfa (Nov 3, 2008)

olwen said:


> I'm just a bit confused about how someone who's never been attracted to a fat person will suddenly be attracted to one?
> 
> I know you don't like labels, but this is where I find them helpful. Are you referring to men who were always attracted to fat women, but never labeled themselves as FAs or are you talking about men who were never attracted to fat people and never considered themselves FAs?



I've sort of tried to stay out of this thread until now because I was a little daunted by the OP's proposition.

Speaking as a self-confessed 'FA', when I consider real-life encounters I can immediately think of two ladies who reduced me to a cold-sweat stunned mullet on first sight. One would have weighed maybe 100 pounds dripping wet. The other was 20 stone if she was an ounce. So much for physical preferences. They are a predilection, no more and no less and it is very possible to be attracted to something you might never have considered before.

Infinitely more important, is the person within. As a personal admission, when I think back on it, I have actually dated fairly few ladies, and slept with far fewer. This cuts both ways; I am 'choosy' but conversely, I am also something of an 'acquired taste' that would be of little interest to most women. C'est la vie. 
I can't seriously imagine dating a woman purely for physical attraction (or ulterior motive...), it would be boring. For me, there needs to be an emotional and intellectual connection as well. I did once date someone primarily because of physical attraction and that was a mistake.

As to whether I, as a thin 'FA', can understand fatties? 
Sometimes, I can be an amazingly perceptive and sensitive individual. I can also be an outstandingly dense and obtuse male. I seem to have very little control over this...

What I have noticed is that if you treat people with courtesy and respect and with some consideration of their situation; they will generally respond very well, because regrettably that is rather better than the rest of their world will behave. 
Having been raised conservatively by a semi-invalid mother, I guess I am also quite good at keeping an eye out for people when they need a hand or an arm to lean on etc.

Would I make a special effort because a lady was a 'fattie'? No, I wouldn't. Would I make an special effort because she as an individual needed that care and attention? Every single time, or at least I would try.

I doubt that we every totally understand each other, except at a superficial level. Each life is unique. But I also think that a partial-understanding made in good faith can in fact be a very powerful thing and conversely saying that another "can't/doesn't understand me" can be a very destructive and separating thing.


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## tonynyc (Nov 4, 2008)

I consider myself a proud BHMFA (5'10",265). It's a shame that the term FA is given such an unfair rep- like anything you will find folks that are sincere and those that are assholes - no different than anything else in life... 

I guess in terms of public perception- if I'm with a SSBBW - it's like expected - folks may stare;but, they keep their mouths shut and comments to themselves. 




GordoNegro said:


> Though I have to say taller bhms do appear get more love/'a pass' as opposed to their shorter, more rotund brethren (myself included).



*
You do hit upon another topic that I think would be a great thread in itself. Is there a difference between being a taller BHM vs. a shorter more rotund. I've had conversations with BBWs in the past and taller BHM's (those at or above avg. height get more love) but, this is also true of thinner men as well... 
*




shazz2602 said:


> I think big men get a better deal out of being big, they seem to go less unnoticed and seem to be more accepted by society, unlike big women.



*
I don't know if there is anymore acceptance of Big Men as oppossed to Big Women. The only acceptance may be in the arena of sports: oh he looks like he plays football- or an ex-football player etc. etc.

Also as what may have been mentioned in a previous thread- if someone is going to insult a BHM ; they may have to suffer the consequences of a pissed off angry big man.

Injustice be it overt or subtle still hurts- and at the end of the day there is only so much fighting that even the strongest person can put up with. Injustices hurts regardless of gender. 
*






IrishBard said:


> I'm saying hold your head's high, be proud of the fact that society hates you, and stick it to the man because of that. People may not like it, but hey, they are afraid of something different. If you feel good about it, in your corest of cores, heart of hearts, know you feel good about who you are, then you've won and society can do jack shit about it.



*
So true- at the end of the day- you have to be happy with yourself and if other folks don't like it- it's their loss not yours. 
*


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## superodalisque (Nov 4, 2008)

southernfa said:


> I've sort of tried to stay out of this thread until now because I was a little daunted by the OP's proposition.
> 
> Speaking as a self-confessed 'FA', when I consider real-life encounters I can immediately think of two ladies who reduced me to a cold-sweat stunned mullet on first sight. One would have weighed maybe 100 pounds dripping wet. The other was 20 stone if she was an ounce. So much for physical preferences. They are a predilection, no more and no less and it is very possible to be attracted to something you might never have considered before.
> 
> ...




well said human being first FA second they wouldn't let me rep you but i'll get you later.


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## Mini (Nov 4, 2008)

Haven't read the full thread, so forgive me if this ground's already been covered, but no, I don't understand the trials and tribulations that the larger ones go through. I love fat, but I'll be damned if I can do the math and see how it might adversely affect my partner's life. I'm kinda selfish like that, but it's not intentional. Just... ignorance, I guess. :S


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## superodalisque (Nov 4, 2008)

Mini said:


> Haven't read the full thread, so forgive me if this ground's already been covered, but no, I don't understand the trials and tribulations that the larger ones go through. I love fat, but I'll be damned if I can do the math and see how it might adversely affect my partner's life. I'm kinda selfish like that, but it's not intentional. Just... ignorance, I guess. :S



this made me think. although its good to relate and understand certain realities maybe its not so good if your partner rolls in a pity party with you. maybe it would be crippling in a way to have a person relate to all of the negative things that happen to you in your life. i have friends who have no idea about certain things. if i'm having a bad day the quickest way to lighten my load is to have them say or do something thats totally out in left field when it comes to my problems. then i'm able to laugh and put things into a human perspective.


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## Mini (Nov 4, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> this made me think. although its good to relate and understand certain realities maybe its not so good if your partner rolls in a pity party with you. maybe it would be crippling in a way to have a person relate to all of the negative things that happen to you in your life. i have friends who have no idea about certain things. if i'm having a bad day the quickest way to lighten my load is to have them say or do something thats totally out in left field when it comes to my problems. then i'm able to laugh and put things into a human perspective.



So, if I'm getting this, the answer lies somewhere in the middle. It's good to know where your partner's coming from occasionally, but you're not helping anyone if you attribute all the world's ills to something that might not even be that big an issue, no pun intended.


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## bellyjelly (Nov 4, 2008)

Obsessing and empathising with every detail of living in a fat body? I'd feel I were under a microscope. No thanks.

*Yep, I can't fit there, walking far's a bitch and I'll steal your desert. *:eat2:

As far as I'm concerned, that's enough for a potential SO to know for starters.


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## Fascinita (Nov 4, 2008)

bellyjelly said:


> *Yep, I can't fit there, walking far's a bitch and I'll steal your desert. *:eat2:



When I started this thread I was actually really hungry. So what I had in mind as far as "understanding" was along the lines of what you mention.

Will FAs--even fattie FAs--understand when I steal their desserts? I hope it doesn't end up causing any friction! :happy:


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## bellyjelly (Nov 4, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> When I started this thread I was actually really hungry. So what I had in mind as far as "understanding" was along the lines of what you mention.
> 
> Will FAs--even *fattie FAs--understand when I steal their desserts? *I hope it doesn't end up causing any friction! :happy:



Hahaha

Or would that just be WAR?


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## imfree (Nov 4, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> When I started this thread I was actually really hungry. So what I had in mind as far as "understanding" was along the lines of what you mention.
> 
> Will FAs--even fattie FAs--understand when I steal their desserts? I hope it doesn't end up causing any friction! :happy:



Fattie FA wisdom always buys more than
enough dessert ahead of time.


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## Haunted (Nov 4, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> When I started this thread I was actually really hungry. So what I had in mind as far as "understanding" was along the lines of what you mention.
> 
> Will FAs--even fattie FAs--understand when I steal their desserts? I hope it doesn't end up causing any friction! :happy:





bellyjelly said:


> Hahaha
> 
> Or would that just be WAR?





imfree said:


> Fattie FA wisdom always buys more than
> enough dessert ahead of time.



Um I order dessert even when i don't want it hoping she'll steal it


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## B68 (Nov 4, 2008)

This thread is narrowing down to a final conclusion.

Do FA's understand Fatties? Yes, because they let their fatties steal their dessert. 

When i see a BBW look like :eat2: i give her my dessert, she :eat1: and i'm


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## Fascinita (Nov 4, 2008)

Yes, but how many miles would you travel to find a special treat for a fattie?

Something heavenly with coffee and chocolate flavors together. Something spongy and crunchy at the same time. Sweet and rich and made of the finest flours and sugars and caramels.

Let's gauge how well you understand in terms of miles traveled for fattie's dessert, shall we?


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## B68 (Nov 4, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Yes, but how many miles would you travel to find a special treat for a fattie?
> 
> Something heavenly with coffee and chocolate flavors together. Something spongy and crunchy at the same time. Sweet and rich and made of the finest flours and sugars and caramels.
> 
> Let's gauge how well you understand in terms of miles traveled for fattie's dessert, shall we?



Believe me, i'm willing to travel miles, sacrifice desserts and much more...

BUT... there's this boy who calls me daddy 2 days in every 14 days... He's THE love of my life, no matter what happens...


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## Fascinita (Nov 4, 2008)

B68 said:


> Believe me, i'm willing to travel miles, sacrifice desserts and much more...
> 
> BUT... there's this boy who calls me daddy 2 days in every 14 days... He's THE love of my life, no matter what happens...



Oh, brother. lol... It was a theoretical question. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, foxy.  No one's asking you to bring _me_ dessert for realz. :happy:

I meant that, should your fat lady ask you to get in a spaceship and travel to the moon for dessert, how willing would you be to don a spacesuit and do it. Something along those lines...

Greetings to your son, who must be very sweet. And congrats on being a good dad.

:bow:


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## B68 (Nov 4, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Oh, brother. lol... It was a theoretical question. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, foxy.  No one's asking you to bring _me_ dessert for realz. :happy:
> 
> I meant that, should your fat lady ask you to get in a spaceship and travel to the moon for dessert, how willing would you be to don a spacesuit and do it. Something along those lines...
> 
> ...



He he he. I did understand the theoretical part. Don't worry

It's just that i really faced the temptation recently. So my reply was theoretical as well. And a fart of a mind which has been very busy thinking about this at the same time.

Anyway, besides that, i would travel to the moon without a spacesuit to get dessert


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## superodalisque (Nov 4, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> When I started this thread I was actually really hungry. So what I had in mind as far as "understanding" was along the lines of what you mention.
> 
> Will FAs--even fattie FAs--understand when I steal their desserts? I hope it doesn't end up causing any friction! :happy:



girl!!!!! my skinny friends are the biggest dessert thieves i know! my fat friends know the danger of being stabbed with a fork so i get my respect


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## Haunted (Nov 4, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Yes, but how many miles would you travel to find a special treat for a fattie?
> 
> Something heavenly with coffee and chocolate flavors together. Something spongy and crunchy at the same time. Sweet and rich and made of the finest flours and sugars and caramels.
> 
> Let's gauge how well you understand in terms of miles traveled for fattie's dessert, shall we?



Don't forget there also some great Mail Order desserts to 

CheeseCake Fantasy

Wicked Whoopies Home of the Five Pound Whoopie Pie as well as Chocolate Covered Whoopie Pie's


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## Tad (Nov 5, 2008)

B68 said:


> When you're in love or when you love, you have to realize that the other might change physically. I can be paralyzed by an accident, she can have whatever you can think of. Would you stay and support? Yes, without a doubt.
> ........
> Being an FA makes no difference in this case.



This has come up on other threads in the past, and I just want to mention one thing that seemed to be a bit of a general conclusion in some of those: An unavoidable change might, in some ways, be much easier to deal with than a chosen change. 

In other words:

Medical condition which forces loss of weight: you miss the pounds, but you are glad she is alive.

She chooses to lose weight: you miss the pounds, but on top of that she has chosen to change something she knows you like. You might support her doing what she feels will make her happier/healthier/whateverthemotivationwas, but you have to deal with both the physical loss of part of what attracted you, and the emotional loss of her choice. Many guys find the second part almost as hard to adjust to as the first part. (to be clear: these aren't cases of guys saying she shouldn't make the change, but even with good will it can be hard to process).



Fascinita said:


> When I started this thread I was actually really hungry. So what I had in mind as far as "understanding" was along the lines of what you mention.
> 
> Will FAs--even fattie FAs--understand when I steal their desserts? I hope it doesn't end up causing any friction! :happy:





imfree said:


> Fattie FA wisdom always buys more than
> enough dessert ahead of time.



I loved this whole exchange. And yes, I think very few FA will complain about you stealing their dessert! In fact I think the FA/fatfolk issue might more often be the FA not understanding when their partner doesn't want dessert.


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## GoldenDelicious (Nov 5, 2008)

edx said:


> I think very few FA will complain about you stealing their dessert! In fact I think the FA/fatfolk issue might more often be the FA not understanding when their partner doesn't want dessert.



Well, I kind of disagree with the first part Mer WOULD complain if I stole her dessert because she likes her food too, mind you she would be as organised as I'mfree and make sure there was plenty of dessert ahead of time AND always gives me the biggest piece of cake (but that's only because she doesn't have as sweet a tooth as I do for everything else she is obsessive about things being equal).

My FA would not understand if I didn't want dessert and in fact would worry I was ill, the last time I refused dessert she asked me if I was feeling ok and looked worried about me

On a final note... I don't think the whole 'do FA's understand fatties' is as simplistic as to reducing it to a pudding obsession, lol. GD XX


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## B68 (Nov 5, 2008)

edx said:


> This has come up on other threads in the past, and I just want to mention one thing that seemed to be a bit of a general conclusion in some of those: An unavoidable change might, in some ways, be much easier to deal with than a chosen change.
> 
> In other words:
> 
> ...



You're right, there's a difference. Both situations will be pretty tough to deal with in daily life. And it depends on the communication and the intensity of your feelings how much the FA will see weightloss by choice as some sort of betrayal. 

I know the weightloss by choice from an ex. She'd mentioned this desire when we were together and i'd told her i'd support her if she was ready for it. It would be my loss too, i thought, but i loved her, so...

Anyway, we divorced for reasons that had nothing to do with physical things. Only years after we split up she started to lose weight by a diet. To her it means a fight for the rest of her life, but that's another topic. 

She's the mother of our son, so we still see each other. And i can say it makes less of a difference than i thought before. Of course i say this as an ex, but still... The fact that she'd the garden (i made out of a jungle) replaced by tiles hurted more


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## mergirl (Nov 5, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Oh, brother. lol... It was a theoretical question. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, foxy.  No one's asking you to bring _me_ dessert for realz. :happy:
> 
> I meant that, should your fat lady ask you to get in a spaceship and travel to the moon for dessert, how willing would you be to don a spacesuit and do it. Something along those lines...
> 
> ...


haha.. facinita. You are a total rocket! 
All hilarity aside, its a kinna common thing round these here parts to consign the "Fa" to the submissive role. I wonder why that is?? Like "how far would you be willing to come lick my fat boots fa's??"
I think we should not ask what the Fa's should do for the fatties but what the fatties should do for the fa's (do you like my presidential theme) ..and maby more importantly what both Fa's and fatties can do for each other! cakes might well be an important part of this understanding..


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## B68 (Nov 5, 2008)

mergirl said:


> haha.. facinita. You are a total rocket!
> All hilarity aside, its a kinna common thing round these here parts to consign the "Fa" to the submissive role. I wonder why that is?? Like "how far would you be willing to come lick my fat boots fa's??"
> I think we should not ask what the Fa's should do for the fatties but what the fatties should do for the fa's (do you like my presidential theme) ..and maby more importantly what both Fa's and fatties can do for each other! cakes might well be an important part of this understanding..



The reason behind this hilarity was actually about the equal problems of an FA and a BBW. Both bound by kids and a lot of sea between them. Never mind that, it was personal. 

But what will allways connect every one of us, FA's and fatties all over the world, is indeed the cake of victory. 

Seriously, when the FA likes it when the fattie likes the cake is there need for more understanding? And is there a submissive role for either of parties?


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## Haunted (Nov 5, 2008)

mergirl said:


> I think we should not ask what the Fa's should do for the fatties but what the fatties should do for the fa's (do you like my presidential theme) ..and maby more importantly what both Fa's and fatties can do for each other! cakes might well be an important part of this understanding..



Nice Spin What would the Fatty Do for the FA ??? 

To be honest doesn't really matter to me i'm content Loving my fatty.


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## Fascinita (Nov 5, 2008)

B68 said:


> Anyway, besides that, i would travel to the moon without a spacesuit to get dessert



Remains to be seen.


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## Haunted (Nov 5, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Remains to be seen.



I apologize but your Banana Split Melted during Re-entry


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## Fascinita (Nov 5, 2008)

Haunted said:


> I apologize but your Banana Split Melted during Re-entry



loolol Ah, the dangers of space travel.

Super FA: able to bring desserts intact back from the moon, bypassing the laws of physics.


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## imfree (Nov 5, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> loolol Ah, the dangers of space travel.
> 
> Super FA: able to bring desserts intact back from the moon, bypassing the laws of physics.



I repaired broken electronic equipment for
27 years, bypassing the laws of physics
was my specialty.


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## B68 (Nov 6, 2008)

imfree said:


> I repaired broken electronic equipment for
> 27 years, bypassing the laws of physics
> was my specialty.



Indeed, Imfree is SuperFA. I'm FArzan


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## johnnny2005 (Nov 8, 2008)

This a great topic i feel.Felecia made some very vaild points!i have to admit that when i was younger i did mainly see bbws and ssbbws as just sexy ladies and not much deeper than that.BUT as i have gotten older and more mature and encountering more and more bbws i see life on a much deeper level.I have adopted the attitude like Felecia pointed out girls that happen to be fat but have the most amazing energy and personailties!so i guess me point is to any ''FAs'' out there that see big women in mainly a sexual way is to refocus and to wonder of what a great lady and person she is apart from the weight she carries on her body.i hope anyone reading can understand me point,cheers


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