# Hooters---Just a thought



## lucca23v2 (Mar 3, 2014)

I was watcing a movie the other day and there was a scene at hooters. I started to wonder if they had a BBW version of hooters would it be as popular...


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## ScreamingChicken (Mar 3, 2014)

lucca23v2 said:


> I was watcing a movie the other day and there was a scene at hooters. I started to wonder if they had a BBW version of hooters would it be as popular...



I would blow every paycheck at that place. 

In all seriousness, I have wondered myself how a place with that kind of concept would go over. It all depends where you did it. My instinct says that it would go over well here in Houston. FWIW, I've also said the same thing about a BBW topless bar as well.

BTW, I could see this going over well in NOLA too.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 3, 2014)

ScreamingChicken said:


> I would blow every paycheck at that place.
> 
> In all seriousness, I have wondered myself how a place with that kind of concept would go over. It all depends where you did it. My instinct says that it would go over well here in Houston. FWIW, I've also said the same thing about a BBW topless bar as well.
> 
> BTW, I could see this going over well in NOLA too.



I was just wondering considering that there seems to be a growing trend towards liking big women lately.

But would Hooters allow it. That is the question. They have a reputation for thin girls with big breast.. not fat chicks with big thighs and breast..

but still I wonder...


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## ScreamingChicken (Mar 3, 2014)

lucca23v2 said:


> I was just wondering considering that there seems to be a growing trend towards liking big women lately.
> 
> But would Hooters allow it. That is the question. They have a reputation for thin girls with big breast.. not fat chicks with big thighs and breast..
> 
> but still I wonder...



Hooters doesn't have the market all to themselves when it comes to restaurants featuring waitresses with big breasts in skimpy clothes. There's a chain in Houston called Twin Peaks does just the very same thing.

Besides, Hooters doesn't have to be the one to go this route. Another enterprising company can take the idea and run with it. But instead of wings, I could see it working better with a home cooking or BBQ type menu.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 3, 2014)

ScreamingChicken said:


> Hooters doesn't have the market all to themselves when it comes to restaurants featuring waitresses with big breasts in skimpy clothes. There's a chain in Houston called Twin Peaks does just the very same thing.
> 
> Besides, Hooters doesn't have to be the one to go this route. Another enterprising company can take the idea and run with it. But instead of wings, I could see it working better with a home cooking or BBQ type menu.



mmm.. BBQ... and it can be called thighs and things..lol


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## bbwbud (Mar 3, 2014)

Count me in. And it would just seem logical to be able to order nice, boneless breats, instead of wings which are bones with hardly any meat on them, kind of defeating the purpose of a BBW themed breastaurant.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 3, 2014)

bbwbud said:


> Count me in. And it would just seem logical to be able to order nice, boneless breats, instead of wings which are bones with hardly any meat on them, kind of defeating the purpose of a BBW themed breastaurant.



Great idea!


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## J34 (Mar 3, 2014)

I've heard that they do have bbw strip clubs. So a bbw themed restaurant modeled after Hooters is not like an idea that is impossible to come to fruition. Perhaps it might come sooner than we think.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 3, 2014)

J34 said:


> I've heard that they do have bbw strip clubs. So a bbw themed restaurant modeled after Hooters is not like an idea that is impossible to come to fruition. Perhaps it might come sooner than we think.



Let's hope!


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## Blackjack (Mar 3, 2014)

Alternatively, we could go to eateries that did not objectify women as their main selling point.

Somehow I think that'd be better for everyone.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 3, 2014)

Blackjack said:


> Alternatively, we could go to eateries that did not objectify women as their main selling point.
> 
> Somehow I think that'd be better for everyone.



You have a point. 

Then again... A nice healthy girl can help promote that the food at the place is really good!

Depends on how you spin it.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 3, 2014)

Someone else thought of it as well..

Ivy Dommkitty..

IJS..... 

View attachment Ivy Doomkitty.jpg


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 3, 2014)

Blackjack said:


> Alternatively, we could go to eateries that did not objectify women as their main selling point.
> 
> Somehow I think that'd be better for everyone.



Just out of curiosity, if the women working at Hooters choose to work there because they enjoy showing off their bodies, they are exhibitionist, is it still objectification?


IJS...


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## Tad (Mar 3, 2014)

Blackjack said:


> Alternatively, we could go to eateries that did not objectify women as their main selling point.
> 
> Somehow I think that'd be better for everyone.



Yah, this ^^^^^^

Hey, I'm all for having bbw and bhm wait staff, and might even be more likely to then frequent the restaurant, all else being equal. But emphasizing the woman's bust as the main selling point of the place just seems to me to send messages about men and women that I'm not crazy about.


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## ScreamingChicken (Mar 3, 2014)

Tad said:


> Yah, this ^^^^^^
> 
> Hey, I'm all for having bbw and bhm wait staff, and might even be more likely to then frequent the restaurant, all else being equal. But emphasizing the woman's bust as the *main* selling point of the place just seems to me to send messages about men and women that I'm not crazy about.



You can have a restaurant staffed with gorgeous fat women wearing tight shorts and tank tops , accentuating their immense bosoms and asses...it won't succeed if the food and drink aren't good, the establishment isn't clean and well run, and the service isn't stellar. Just like any other restaurant.

BBW's, in this case, would be something that gives the place something "different" to offer to the market and a bit more of an identity. You come for the sizzle but stay for the steak, if you will.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 3, 2014)

Tad said:


> Yah, this ^^^^^^
> 
> Hey, I'm all for having bbw and bhm wait staff, and might even be more likely to then frequent the restaurant, all else being equal. But emphasizing the woman's bust as the main selling point of the place just seems to me to send messages about men and women that I'm not crazy about.



So lets take the "uniform" away.. and make it a simple black slacks and white top... what would it then be acceptable?

Then you are still sending a mesage that big people are not as attractive as their thin counterparts and we chose to cover them up.. it can go bith ways..

There is no winning...if you cover up the fat people you are saying they are not as sexually appealing as the skinny people and it is bad...

If you put them in skimpy attire like their counterparts it is sexism and "hocking their goods" for lack of a better term to make money...so there is no winning...

However this is off the original topic which was..

Would this work and would people go to eat there?

All things being equal and it is not an objectification or either men or women..


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 3, 2014)

Blackjack said:


> Alternatively, we could go to eateries that did not objectify women as their main selling point.
> 
> Somehow I think that'd be better for everyone.





Tad said:


> Yah, this ^^^^^^
> 
> Hey, I'm all for having bbw and bhm wait staff, and might even be more likely to then frequent the restaurant, all else being equal. But emphasizing the woman's bust as the main selling point of the place just seems to me to send messages about men and women that I'm not crazy about.



Just as an FYI, if yout hink that women in skimpy attire objectifies a woman, is the only time women are objectified, you have a lot to know. Women are objectified even when they are fully clothed and dressed like nuns. It is part of life.

On a separate note, then what about skimpy bathing suits that show more than those skimpy uniforms, that they choose to wear? Wouldn't they be the ones objectifying themselves?..

Hoosters did not go out and recrruit. These women chose to work their even knowing what the uniforms were going to be.

You can't put your hand in the mouse trap knowing full well it will snap on you, then blame the company that makes the trap saying the trap snapped on my hand..it is your fault.

IJS....


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## Blackjack (Mar 3, 2014)

lucca23v2 said:


> Just as an FYI, if yout hink that women in skimpy attire objectifies a woman, is the only time women are objectified, you have a lot to know. Women are objectified even when they are fully clothed and dressed like nuns. It is part of life.
> 
> On a separate note, then what about skimpy bathing suits that show more than those skimpy uniforms, that they choose to wear? Wouldn't they be the ones objectifying themselves?..
> 
> ...



I can sure as fuck criticize a company that makes its selling point the waitresses, as though their bodies are the main feature that should bring in clients.

I'm well aware of the ubiquitous objectification of women, and that does not excuse in any way this sort of bullshit.


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## ScreamingChicken (Mar 3, 2014)

Blackjack said:


> I can sure as fuck criticize a company that makes its selling point the waitresses, as though their bodies are the main feature that should bring in clients.
> 
> I'm well aware of the ubiquitous objectification of women, and that does not excuse in any way this sort of bullshit.



Blackjack, watching you lecture someone on "the objectification of women" and getting yourself in a tirade when you have a pretty well known rep for making posts where you are drooling over many a Paysite model.....it smacks of hypocritical. I am sorry but it does.

If you can layout how their is a difference, I am very willing to listen to with an open mind.


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## Blackjack (Mar 3, 2014)

ScreamingChicken said:


> Blackjack, watching you lecture someone on "the objectification of women" and getting yourself in a tirade when you have a pretty well known rep for making posts where you are drooling over many a Paysite model.....it smacks of hypocritical. I am sorry but it does.
> 
> If you can layout how their is a difference, I am very willing to listen to with an open mind.



Women who are putting themselves out there for purposes of sexualization, and monetizing that, is one thing, and that's what's on the paysite board.

The sexualization of young women by men as a method of selling a product is quite different, and something that's prevalent and problematic in our society. 

Basically if the selling point of your restaurant is not the food but the fact that your waitresses are attractive, it's exploitation and _that's a fucking problem_; if you are a paysite model and play up your body's features for a job which is by its nature more sexual than serving drinks, that's not even in the same ballpark.


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## dharmabean (Mar 3, 2014)

lucca23v2 said:


> Someone else thought of it as well..
> 
> Ivy Dommkitty..
> 
> IJS.....



Ugh!! I can't stand Ivy Doomkitty!! She's such a b***h to people at conventions, unless of course you're swooning over her and you're of the male persuasion.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 3, 2014)

dharmabean said:


> Ugh!! I can't stand Ivy Doomkitty!! She's such a b***h to people at conventions, unless of course you're swooning over her and you're of the male persuasion.



I don't really have an opinion of her one way or the other.... I just used er as an example of a bigger girl wearing the hooters uniform


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 3, 2014)

Blackjack said:


> Women who are putting themselves out there for purposes of sexualization, and monetizing that, is one thing, and that's what's on the paysite board.
> 
> The sexualization of young women by men as a method of selling a product is quite different, and something that's prevalent and problematic in our society.
> 
> Basically if the selling point of your restaurant is not the food but the fact that your waitresses are attractive, it's exploitation and _that's a fucking problem_; if you are a paysite model and play up your body's features for a job which is by its nature more sexual than serving drinks, that's not even in the same ballpark.



The selling point of Hooters was not the women but the food. The women were just a way to get people in through the door. 

There is no difference. The women at hooters were not recruited and they were not forced to work there. They choose to apply to work their knowing full well that they will have to show skin. So in a way they are doing the same thing that the women on the paysites are doing, just live. There is no difference.


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## Fat Molly (Mar 3, 2014)

Blackjack said:


> Women who are putting themselves out there for purposes of sexualization, and monetizing that, is one thing, and that's what's on the paysite board.
> 
> The sexualization of young women by men as a method of selling a product is quite different, and something that's prevalent and problematic in our society.
> 
> Basically if the selling point of your restaurant is not the food but the fact that your waitresses are attractive, it's exploitation and _that's a fucking problem_; if you are a paysite model and play up your body's features for a job which is by its nature more sexual than serving drinks, that's not even in the same ballpark.



Bingo. One is women getting direct dividends for their work being sexual objects, one is women getting indirect or minimal dividends for ostensibly being waitresses, but actually working as being sexual objects. People getting money for being sexual objects is far better than people getting money for being waitresses when they're really being used as sexual objects. 

While Hooters' reputation is clear, and consent is somewhat implied as part of the application process (even if there's no legalese to reflect that), I'm definitely feeling like Hooters' plays into the power dynamic of sexism instead of equalizing the playing field. Independent or self-organized women opting to work as models & sexual objects is, instead, often a way to equalize the playing field. (Often it doesn't always work, of course, but for many it does.) 

Granted, I'm less educated about these things than some people, but here's my verdict: any employer that stigmatizes against folks because of their size... whether large or small ... may be infringement of employment law. I would much, much prefer to frequent a restaurant that emphasizes BODY DIVERSITY and GENDER DIVERSITY and RACIAL DIVERSITY and other forms of diversity among its waitstaff. 

Because after all, what if a waitress develops a health problem, such as cancer or something less serious, and loses a significant amount of weight? Would she have to be fired for that since she's not 'big enough' anymore? 

Also: we run the risk of qualifying women's beauty as being purely dependent on their weight by glorifying it in a restaurant. That's something I see here on this forum a lot, which leaves me feeling icky - the idea that THE BIGGER YOU ARE THE MORE BEAUTIFUL YOU ARE is really repellent and does not create a safe work culture. 

One other issue that I see arising regarding the actual development of such a restaurant - I can see insurance agencies being really horrible about providing insurance to employees. In fact, that might be the primary stumbling block preventing such a business from existing already. We can't just hand-wave this away - in running a business, we need to be equitable in how we treat employees, and getting them the shittiest of insurances is not an option. Encouraging a Health at Every Size paradigm within the business culture might help convince a more liberal company to provide insurance, and that would be great. 

Also re: uniforms - what I've seen work well in the past is allowing folks to choose the uniforms they want to wear from a variety of models that have the same artistic design but different shapes for different bodies & preferences. Those that choose to be more revealing can be more revealing. Those that want to be more conservative can be more conservative.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 3, 2014)

Let me just clarify something before people get the wrong idea. I do not agree wit the objectifying of people period. 

That being said, i do say that if you willing put yourself in a position that you full well know you will be objectified, then you can not complain about it.

It is kind of like jumping in the lake knowing full well you will be wet, then complaining you are wet.


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## CastingPearls (Mar 3, 2014)

I've never been to one and have no desire to go to one, but are there male servers at Hooters? If so, what do they wear?


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## dharmabean (Mar 3, 2014)

lucca23v2 said:


> I don't really have an opinion of her one way or the other.... I just used er as an example of a bigger girl wearing the hooters uniform



I've met her. I'm not judging from her picture(s) or how she represents herself online. :blush: I just wasn't impressed with her mannerisms. 

But, I see your example of a bigger girl wearing hooters gear. 

With that said, I see no difference in these women CHOOSING to don the uniform for money, knowing full well they're objects of sexual desire..

And the bbw/ssbbw on the paysite being oogled as well. 

Both are adults. Both go into it knowing that?
A. They'll make good money.
B. Sex sells.
C. They're adults.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 3, 2014)

Fat Molly said:


> Bingo. One is women getting direct dividends for their work being sexual objects, one is women getting indirect or minimal dividends for ostensibly being waitresses, but actually working as being sexual objects. People getting money for being sexual objects is far better than people getting money for being waitresses when they're really being used as sexual objects.
> 
> While Hooters' reputation is clear, and consent is somewhat implied as part of the application process (even if there's no legalese to reflect that), I'm definitely feeling like Hooters' plays into the power dynamic of sexism instead of equalizing the playing field. Independent or self-organized women opting to work as models & sexual objects is, instead, often a way to equalize the playing field. (Often it doesn't always work, of course, but for many it does.)
> 
> ...



People make things harder tan they have to be. The simple fact is that people know the reputation of hooters so if you *CHOOSE* to apply to work there, then you know full well what you are getting into.

That is the same as choosing to be on a paysite selling sex. Wen you go apply to work at hooters you know that the job entails some sexual nature. It may not be as explicit as on a paysite, but you know you will have men ogling you and you know that some might go further. What I am saying is don't jump in knowing full well you will get sexual attention then complain.. ugh.. why is he looking at me that way.


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## Fat Molly (Mar 3, 2014)

lucca23v2 said:


> People make things harder tan they have to be. The simple fact is that people know the reputation of hooters so if you *CHOOSE* to apply to work there, then you know full well what you are getting into.
> 
> That is the same as choosing to be on a paysite selling sex. Wen you go apply to work at hooters you know that the job entails some sexual nature. It may not be as explicit as on a paysite, but you know you will have men ogling you and you know that some might go further. What I am saying is don't jump in knowing full well you will get sexual attention then complain.. ugh.. why is he looking at me that way.



I really don't want to get into an internet argument over something like this. But you're wrong. Choice to do one thing (waitressing, even at Hooter's) does not equal choice to do another thing (be ogled, groped, verbally harassed, perhaps sexually assaulted, etc.) It's possible to see this as blaming the victim here. That's all I gotta say.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 3, 2014)

dharmabean said:


> I've met her. I'm not judging from her picture(s) or how she represents herself online. :blush: I just wasn't impressed with her mannerisms.
> 
> But, I see your example of a bigger girl wearing hooters gear.
> 
> ...





Thank you! That is what I have been saying all day!


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## Yakatori (Mar 3, 2014)

On a Sunday, you would literally see scores of young(ish) married couples with little children...



ScreamingChicken said:


> "_Hooters doesn't have the market all to themselves when it comes to restaurants featuring waitresses with big ...a chain in Houston called Twin Peaks does just the very same thing...instead of wings, I could see it working better with a home cooking or BBQ type menu._"


There's actually a number of them, smaller regionally-based franchises with only a few stores. The popular industry-term is "_breastaurant_." Although some might consider it a mere variation of the more traditional "bikini-bar," you will tend to see here a much stronger emphasis (behind the scenes, naturally)on corporate-style management and best practices (uniform pours, measured portioning, etc...) and conspicuous brand-building (professional advertising, promotional events, etc..) Some articles have been written to the effect of how this was supposed to've been a more recession-resistant corner of the overall food-service marketplace. 

Naturally, stuff like wings and domestic beer and a highly simplified menu is a vital part of this equation. To keep food cost & price points relatively low. 



ScreamingChicken said:


> "_My instinct says that it would go over well here in Houston.... I could see this going over well in NOLA too._"


It would probably be most successful just about anywhere you see something similar. Since these companies do a fair amount of market-research before investing anything in a particular location. All you (then) would have to do is actually run a better restaurant!



lucca23v2 said:


> "_Just out of curiosity, if the women working at Hooters choose to work there because they enjoy showing off their bodies, they are exhibitionist, is it still objectification?..._"


It certainly involves a degree of objectification. But probably no more (necessarily so) than any of a number of other ways to put your back into your living. As far as I know, no one has ever been forced to put on a Hooters' uniform and work there. I think you'd have to (first) voluntarily apply for the job. Have some experience, good references, etc... It's probably a bit more competitive than some of us realize. 



Blackjack said:


> "_Alternatively, we could go to eateries that did not objectify women as their main selling point.
> 
> Somehow I think that'd be better for everyone._"


Ah...not if you're the one working at Hooters, apparently. Btw, where is this restaurant where they feature coldly-indifferent and unattractive waitresses? Kind of curious about that, do I need to tuck myself between my legs before walking in there?


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## superodalisque (Mar 4, 2014)

i dunno. really don't want other people's body parts with my food. i never understood why people who do don't just ask the strip clubs to have better food and have done with it. i can't see it improving things for fat women any more than pole dancing will. BTW i live near the original Hooters.


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## CastingPearls (Mar 4, 2014)

superodalisque said:


> i dunno. really don't want other people's body parts with my food. i never understood why people who do don't just ask the strip clubs to have better food and have done with it. i can't see it improving things for fat women any more than pole dancing will. BTW i live near the original Hooters.


Come on, those fat pole dancers are amazing. I wish I could defy gravity like them. I can barely keep my boobs up with a good bra. LOL


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 4, 2014)

superodalisque said:


> i dunno. really don't want other people's body parts with my food. i never understood why people who do don't just ask the strip clubs to have better food and have done with it. i can't see it improving things for fat women any more than pole dancing will. BTW i live near the original Hooters.



lol.. thing is.. the thread originally was not one about promoting anything. It was a simple question of would a hooters that had BBWs as waitresses be as popular really. Would it be as successful as the one with the thin girls and fake boobs. 

It quickly turned into a "this is being exploitative to women"
.. yadda yadda yadda..

But is was a good turn in the thread....


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## penguin (Mar 4, 2014)

Sex doesn't sell: objectification does. Take a good hard look at ads, on tv, in magazines, on billboards, and you'll realise they're not pushing sexuality, they're pushing objectification. The way women are portrayed in the ads, when they're shown as body parts on display, or shown in overtly sexualised situations, it isn't about sex. It's objectification, sometimes literally.

I think that a restaurant that only has fat staff, especially if they were put on display like they are at Hooters, would find itself and its staff the victim of a lot of ridicule.


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## dharmabean (Mar 4, 2014)

penguin said:


> Sex doesn't sell: objectification does. Take a good hard look at ads, on tv, in magazines, on billboards, and you'll realise they're not pushing sexuality, they're pushing objectification.



One of the best tumblrs I follow:

Ad-Busting


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## superodalisque (Mar 4, 2014)

lucca23v2 said:


> lol.. thing is.. the thread originally was not one about promoting anything. It was a simple question of would a hooters that had BBWs as waitresses be as popular really. Would it be as successful as the one with the thin girls and fake boobs.
> 
> It quickly turned into a "this is being exploitative to women"
> .. yadda yadda yadda..
> ...



girl you should know how serious i am by now


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## superodalisque (Mar 4, 2014)

CastingPearls said:


> Come on, those fat pole dancers are amazing. I wish I could defy gravity like them. I can barely keep my boobs up with a good bra. LOL



oh i'm cool with fat girls being able to do it for themselves. but like a lot of things about us all the fun gets taken out of it when people are out there buying and selling us. 

tell me about bras! they need good female engineers that know a lot about designing silk scaffolding. now that would be a company i could really get behind.


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## superodalisque (Mar 4, 2014)

technically i can't see it working because of staffing issues. i don't know of too many fat waitresses who'd be willing to hoof it around all night at the expense of their knees hips and backs on hard floors in heels for typical restaurant wages.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 4, 2014)

Fat Molly said:


> I really don't want to get into an internet argument over something like this. But you're wrong. Choice to do one thing (waitressing, even at Hooter's) does not equal choice to do another thing (be ogled, groped, verbally harassed, perhaps sexually assaulted, etc.) It's possible to see this as blaming the victim here. That's all I gotta say.



Not an argument. But you have to admit that everyone knows the reputation of hooters. If you choose to work there then you know you are opening the door to people oggling you, verbaly harrassing you, sexually harrassing you, etc. I am not saying that it is right. What I am saying is that when you sign up to work there you have to expect that at some point you will get it because that is what the environment of the establishment is. Not to be harrassed, but to be eye candy. If you sign on to be part of it you can't them complain. 

It is not right to put yourself in a place where you are fully aware you will be ogled, and then go back and complain that men are ogling you.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 4, 2014)

superodalisque said:


> technically i can't see it working because of staffing issues. i don't know of too many fat waitresses who'd be willing to hoof it around all night at the expense of their knees hips and backs on hard floors in heels for typical restaurant wages.



That is one of the few draw backs. There is also that you won't be able to have as many tables because bigger people need a bit more room to move around in.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 4, 2014)

superodalisque said:


> oh i'm cool with fat girls being able to do it for themselves. but like a lot of things about us all the fun gets taken out of it when people are out there buying and selling us.
> 
> tell me about bras! they need good female engineers that know a lot about designing silk scaffolding. now that would be a company i could really get behind.



I know right!.. and is it me or has the sizing changed as well? And it seems that even the "expensive" bras are not worth the mooney. They are just as crappy as the cheaper ones. no good structure. I find I have to use mostly bras with underwire and I hate underwire!


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## Yakatori (Mar 4, 2014)

penguin said:


> "_Sex doesn't sell: objectification does...they're not pushing sexuality, they're pushing objectification...it isn't about sex. *It's objectification, sometimes literally.*_"


Right, and if sexuality, as a topic, runs counter to the concept or idea that the brand is attempting to evoke, we can also see objectification through de-sexualizing. Like the mammy on my syrup. Or my "uncle" who serves up the most perfectly steamed and fluffy rice.


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## Fat Molly (Mar 4, 2014)

lucca23v2 said:


> Not an argument. But you have to admit that everyone knows the reputation of hooters. If you choose to work there then you know you are opening the door to people oggling you, verbaly harrassing you, sexually harrassing you, etc. I am not saying that it is right. What I am saying is that when you sign up to work there you have to expect that at some point you will get it because that is what the environment of the establishment is. Not to be harrassed, but to be eye candy. If you sign on to be part of it you can't them complain.
> 
> It is not right to put yourself in a place where you are fully aware you will be ogled, and then go back and complain that men are ogling you.



I'm just going to link to a couple of blogs written by people who know better than you or me what it's like to be a Hooter's girl. 

http://hootersgirlexperiences.blogspot.com/

http://hotfoodcoldbeer.blogspot.com/

http://www.dance.net/topic/8815547/1/Diaries/Goldman-achs-My-New-Life-as-a-Hooter-s-Girl.html

http://diaryofahootersgirl.blogspot.com/2008/08/and-so-it-begins.html?zx=20d06472ee29322b

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/aitye/i_am_a_former_hooters_girl_ama/

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/kaxma/i_was_a_hooters_girl_for_2_years_ama/

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/13gm46/iama_former_hooters_girl_amaa/

Not unilaterally negative or positive, but certainly there are a lot of girls who got more than their fair share of ogling/harassment and didn't get adequately compensated for it. Or protected from it.  

Telling folks that it's their choice to work there is really reductionist - because choices are far more complex than you're making them out to be.


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## Fat Molly (Mar 4, 2014)

penguin said:


> Sex doesn't sell: objectification does. Take a good hard look at ads, on tv, in magazines, on billboards, and you'll realise they're not pushing sexuality, they're pushing objectification. The way women are portrayed in the ads, when they're shown as body parts on display, or shown in overtly sexualised situations, it isn't about sex. It's objectification, sometimes literally.
> 
> I think that a restaurant that only has fat staff, especially if they were put on display like they are at Hooters, would find itself and its staff the victim of a lot of ridicule.



Bingo. I'd give you rep but I'm all repped out it seems.


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## Saoirse (Mar 4, 2014)

Fat Molly said:


> I really don't want to get into an internet argument over something like this. But you're wrong. Choice to do one thing (waitressing, even at Hooter's) does not equal choice to do another thing (be ogled, groped, verbally harassed, perhaps sexually assaulted, etc.) It's possible to see this as blaming the victim here. That's all I gotta say.



Pretty sure Hooters is not cool with customers groping/harassing their wait staff. Lawsuits are scary.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 4, 2014)

Fat Molly said:


> Bingo. I'd give you rep but I'm all repped out it seems.



I repped her for you.


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## superodalisque (Mar 5, 2014)

Saoirse said:


> Pretty sure Hooters is not cool with customers groping/harassing their wait staff. Lawsuits are scary.



wanna bet. hooters wants their waitresses to brush it off because a drunk is supposed to be able to grab them and they are supposed to keep smiling. it's not easy to sue your boss for something a customer does either. also with the way america is do you really think a waitress who puts her stuff out there is actually going to get a fair hearing re: sexual harassment by customers at work? wake up. this is the real objectifying slut shaming world we live in. even the waitresses who cover up get treated like crap on a daily basis.

also most states are "right to work states" so they'll just fire you the first time you even look like you aren't going to cooperate.


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## penguin (Mar 5, 2014)

I find it really interesting how some are willing to brush off harassment and assault as "just the way it is."


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 5, 2014)

penguin said:


> I find it really interesting how some are willing to brush off harassment and assault as "just the way it is."



No one is brushing off harassment as "just the way it is". 

That being said, you can't put yourself in a position were you know people are more likely to harass you and then complain about it.

If women *CHOOSE,* _* choose*_ to work in places that they show skin, then they should be ready to accept the fall out of it.

Women who work at titi bars don't complain when men make comments about their breast. Why? because they understand that they CHOSE to work at a titi bar and it leaves them open to comments about their breast.

You can't have it both ways. You can't expose yourself in a public forum and not expect the public to comment on it. Even if the comment are rude and you don't like them, you don't have the right to complain about it because you CHOSE to put yourself on display in public.


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## Rebel (Mar 5, 2014)

Lucca,

I'm not sure that you will appreciate my help since I am an educated middle-aged white guy, and am therefore the apex predator at the top of every exploitation food chain, but I think that your original post explores a great idea that should have been put into action by now. A themed restaurant featuring sexy BBWs would certainly have a core clientele who come in for the waitresses. Hopefully the food would be good enough to attract other customers and earn their loyalty as well.

If a person or group of people object to the way they perceive these waitresses to be treated, their rights should be respected and they should never be forced to go there. The people here on this website have very eloquently made their point that they object to this perceived exploitation as well as why they object to it. I concede their points and do not believe I will add anything of merit to their positions. In their way, they are right.

But so what? One of the most beautiful aspects of our species is that variation in beliefs allows for a much greater opportunity for our collective survival. If a big girl is pretty enough to wait tables in a suggestive and sexy outfit and can capitalize on the increased tips her physical beauty and outgoing personality bring her, I absolutely support her right to do so. I would financially support the business that supplies her the venue to do that as often as I could afford to buy lunch or dinner there. 

There a great many other issues entwined in this debate which I have no interest in revisiting. I am simply saying that in our society as it stands, I would be happy to see the restaurant you suggested initially, Lucca. I would love to frequent such a restaurant, and I think that Dallas, Texas might be as good a location as Houston or New Orleans.

Thank you for bringing this up. I hope it brings this particular restaurant chain one step closer to existing.


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## bigmac (Mar 5, 2014)

penguin said:


> I find it really interesting how some are willing to brush off harassment and assault as "just the way it is."




Humans are sexual animals. In the expression of our sexuality we walk a thin line between flirting and harassment -- between assertive sexuality and assault. That some people are going to transgress is inevitable. 

IMO the best way to mitigate inappropriate behavior is to be more open about sexuality. Our culture exposes us the coarse aspects of sexuality but subtleties are often much less understood.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 5, 2014)

Rebel said:


> Lucca,
> 
> I'm not sure that you will appreciate my help since I am an educated middle-aged white guy, and am therefore the apex predator at the top of every exploitation food chain, but I think that your original post explores a great idea that should have been put into action by now. A themed restaurant featuring sexy BBWs would certainly have a core clientele who come in for the waitresses. Hopefully the food would be good enough to attract other customers and earn their loyalty as well.
> 
> ...



Thank you. Funny enough though, My thought was someonthing completely different than what the thread turned out to be. I asked the question because I thought given the change of people dating bigger woman these days, would a restaurant like hooters work if it had BBWs. Would it be as popular, would it make as much money. 

Maybe if I had phrased it that way the thread would have gone a different way.

I do enjoy the thread though.


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## penguin (Mar 5, 2014)

lucca23v2 said:


> No one is brushing off harassment as "just the way it is".
> 
> That being said, you can't put yourself in a position were you know people are more likely to harass you and then complain about it.
> 
> ...



There are rules at strip clubs. If you violate them, you get kicked out, and than can include disrespecting the women. The nature of a strip club is very different to that of a restaurant, even one like Hooters. Looking and admiring the staff is very different to harassing and assaulting them. 

You're only a few steps from saying that women who choose to dress a certain way should expect harassment on the street. Just because this DOES happen doesn't mean it SHOULD, and we shouldn't just brush this behaviour off as normal and acceptable.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 5, 2014)

penguin said:


> There are rules at strip clubs. If you violate them, you get kicked out, and than can include disrespecting the women. The nature of a strip club is very different to that of a restaurant, even one like Hooters. Looking and admiring the staff is very different to harassing and assaulting them.
> 
> You're only a few steps from saying that women who choose to dress a certain way should expect harassment on the street. Just because this DOES happen doesn't mean it SHOULD, and we shouldn't just brush this behaviour off as normal and acceptable.



There are rules to a restaurant as well. AND after all it is a restaurant that chooses to sell it's product using sex. If a client is rude they should be tossed. But the people working there should not be complaining when it happens because choosing to work there you open yourself up to comments.

as far as women getting cat calls... well.. I will just say it. If you dress exy.. or too revealing, you can expect some to make nice remarks such as you look nice today, or you look hot. But you must also expect that people do not respect boundries and will say they want a piece of what you are advertising. 

Now just to be CLEAR, I am not saying they have a right to do or say nasty and vile things just because you are dressed a certain way. HOWEVER, i do say, that if you are going to do it, then you should know the human race well enough to know that some people don't respect boundries and will make disparaging remarks.

We all wish this was a "happy go lucky, nothing is ever wrong and everything and everyone is beautiful" world, but the reality is that there are vile people and they will make remarks. 

What I do say is that if you don't want the remarks, try your best to not be somewhere or do something that will invite those remarks. I am not saying that you don't have the right to wear what you want, what I will say is that people will remark regardless. Some positively, others negatively. Just make sure you are ready for the negative.


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## ScreamingChicken (Mar 5, 2014)

Getting back to the original spirit of the thread...

A restaurant that featured nothing but BBWs (showing cleavage and wearing tight jeans or shorts) as servers, provided the food is good and the quality of service is , high, could succeed in the right place , with the right business model, and the right management...has the potential to be very successful for all parties involved.


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## Blackjack (Mar 5, 2014)

lucca23v2 said:


> No one is brushing off harassment as "just the way it is".





lucca23v2 said:


> the reality is that there are vile people and they will make remarks.



If that's not a "it's just how it is" statement to excuse harassment then I don't know what is.


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## Yakatori (Mar 5, 2014)

penguin said:


> _There are rules at strip clubs. If you violate them, you get *kicked* out..._


Yeah, literally. If you're lucky it will end without too much more than that. But to add that approach & response extends beyond basic courtesy towards the staff and into pretty much anything which might threaten to disrupt the normal flow of business.

But, equally so, some measure of how tightly things are run is in how these types of problems/threats are anticipated and identified so well in advance as to be completely extinguished before they really even have the chance to develop into anything.

Obviously, what actually goes on at Hooters is a world away from any kind of strip club. (So I have to assume that *supero*'s kind of joking about the wearing of high-heels.) But-still, the analogy certainly does apply in as much a much bigger difference in terms of how a particular server is treated (more significant than whatever types of uniforms or kind of brand or atmosphere's being promoted) has to do with the strength of its management.

More so in heading-off what's more situational-behavior versus actually excluding or refusing service to certain types or groups (Which, frankly, does need to happen from time to time). But also in training staff in how to better anticipate problems and respond more quickly and adroitly-themselves. But also how to best make use of other resources at their disposal as well. 

Which is why I'm a bit skeptical, to say the least, at the implied claim of how any individual Hooters' franchise is necessarily any worse (in terms of the issues we're discussing here) than whatever privately operated Sports' bar one might come across in their travels.




penguin said:


> "_I find it really interesting how some are willing to brush off harassment and assault as "just the way it is."_"


Firstly, there's a cultural aspect to what you're observing. Some of us are wired in such a way as to have to work a little harder at listening...just for the sake of it. We want to act! We like to "_fix_" things. It's difficult, for some of us, to hear about a problem for so long...without physically getting up to do something about. If what's to be done is not so readily apparent, then we tend to "_shut-down_" in a certain sense.

Also, as you point out, it's NOT "_just the way it is_" in most places. And where you tend to see more of certain kinds of transgressions, that would be some indication of the likelihood that other deeper problems and issues are at work with respect to how that particular location is being run. 



lucca23v2 said:


> "_That being said, you can't put yourself in a position were you know people are more likely to harass you and then complain about it._"


I think a better way to put-it would be to say that working in certain types of jobs brings with it a more fundamental task of recognizing the relevant occupational hazards. And to take some personal responsibility for considering how to best manage and mitigate these risks. And think and plan for how to best respond when certain situations begin to materialize 



lucca23v2 said:


> "_...someonthing completely different than what the thread turned out to be....a restaurant like hooters work if it had BBWs. Would it be as popular, would it make as much money..._"


To me, that's what's interesting about seeing the interaction unfold between different point's of view and personalities. The dynamic quality of it. Personally, my thought is: Why can't an already established chain like Hooters take the risk of giving a bigger, fatter woman the very same opportunity they would to anyone else? What's the worst that could happen? She won't make money and will probably have to quit? Given the average rate of turn-over in that type of field, it doesn't really seem like such a risky experiment.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 5, 2014)

Blackjack said:


> If that's not a "it's just how it is" statement to excuse harassment then I don't know what is.



I am not excusing it. I am just pointing out that it happens.. it is a part of life.. Some people do not have a filter and will say anything.

I don't condone murder either, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. There is even justified murder. 

Again, for those that need the extra wording. I *DO NOT* condone or support harassment. Personally when i hear it, I stop it cold. But that is just me. I don't laugh it off, or anything of the sort.

When I post it is just how it is, that means that regardless of how much you stop it, some people will just say what they want. and unfortunately that is how it is. It is the world we live in.

Do I wish it were not like that, yes, but I am realistic about the world I live in. I believe everyone has a right to say what they want no matter how vile it is.

I respect someone calling me a cow, because then they have to respect that i will call them an asshole.


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## AuntHen (Mar 5, 2014)

oops nevermind, I misread a post.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 5, 2014)

Blackjack said:


> If that's not a "it's just how it is" statement to excuse harassment then I don't know what is.



even thought we are at odds on this thread I do enjoy the way your mind works. very quick.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 5, 2014)

Thanks everyone! Even thought I may be at odds with some of you on this thread, I do appreciate you posting! I also appreciate that things did not get nasty as I have seen so many threads go.

YOU ALL ROCK!:bow:


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## penguin (Mar 5, 2014)

lucca23v2 said:


> But the people working there should not be complaining when it happens because choosing to work there you open yourself up to comments.



This is not true. If they are being harassed or assaulted, then they should speak up. They should not just have to take it. If a stripper can stop a customer from touching her or being degrading, then why can't a waitress?



> as far as women getting cat calls... well.. I will just say it. If you dress exy.. or too revealing, you can expect some to make nice remarks such as you look nice today, or you look hot. But you must also expect that people do not respect boundries and will say they want a piece of what you are advertising.


Catcalling is NOT a compliment. It is harassment. It doesn't matter HOW you dress, it is NOT okay to harass anyone. This victim blaming mentality does nothing to help anyone. We should be allowed to dress as we want without fear of harassment or assault. There is HUGE difference between someone saying "Wow, that's a great dress" and "Dang, girl, your ass needs to be on my face." I had a man walk past me the other day and say "You have lovely hair, lady. Very lovely." He smiled and walked on, and that was a compliment. It was respectful and non-invasive. Catcalls are disrespectful and invasive and need to stop. 



> Now just to be CLEAR, I am not saying they have a right to do or say nasty and vile things just because you are dressed a certain way. HOWEVER, i do say, that if you are going to do it, then you should know the human race well enough to know that some people don't respect boundries and will make disparaging remarks.


But that's exactly what you ARE saying. You said that it's how it is and it should be expected, which is giving those people the right to behave in that way. Their behaviour needs to be called out and they need to be taught that it's not acceptable or welcome. Other people need to learn that they don't have to put up with it, and that they too can call those asses out on it. As I said before, just because they CAN, doesn't mean they SHOULD.



> We all wish this was a "happy go lucky, nothing is ever wrong and everything and everyone is beautiful" world, but the reality is that there are vile people and they will make remarks.


We don't have to stay silent. We don't have to condone or enable their behaviour. Women have had to endure this kind of treatment for far too long. Why on earth should we let it continue?



> What I do say is that if you don't want the remarks, try your best to not be somewhere or do something that will invite those remarks. I am not saying that you don't have the right to wear what you want, what I will say is that people will remark regardless. Some positively, others negatively. Just make sure you are ready for the negative.


Victim blaming is NOT okay. This falls in line with the "she was asking for it" mentality of rape victims who wore short skirts or were drinking. We should NOT have to put up with this. It should NOT be condoned or enabled. If someone in your life acts this way, you need to pull them up short and tell them to stop. If someone talks to you this way, you don't have to accept it as "just how it is." 



Blackjack said:


> If that's not a "it's just how it is" statement to excuse harassment then I don't know what is.



Exactly.


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## AuntHen (Mar 5, 2014)

penguin, just a question... do you *personally *believe that men are actually sexually stimulated by physical appearance? Like, if we were to look at this scientifically... is it fair to say that most men are aroused easily by visual stimuli?


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## penguin (Mar 5, 2014)

fat9276 said:


> penguin, just a question... do you *personally *believe that men are actually sexually stimulated by physical appearance? Like, if we were to look at this scientifically... is it fair to say that most men are aroused easily by visual stimuli?



Yes.

That doesn't mean it's okay to catcall, harass, or assault them. You can admire someone or find them attractive without being a creep.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 5, 2014)

penguin said:


> This is not true. If they are being harassed or assaulted, then they should speak up. They should not just have to take it. If a stripper can stop a customer from touching her or being degrading, then why can't a waitress?
> 
> Catcalling is NOT a compliment. It is harassment. It doesn't matter HOW you dress, it is NOT okay to harass anyone. This victim blaming mentality does nothing to help anyone. We should be allowed to dress as we want without fear of harassment or assault. There is HUGE difference between someone saying "Wow, that's a great dress" and "Dang, girl, your ass needs to be on my face." I had a man walk past me the other day and say "You have lovely hair, lady. Very lovely." He smiled and walked on, and that was a compliment. It was respectful and non-invasive. Catcalls are disrespectful and invasive and need to stop.
> 
> ...



OMG.. really? Here we go again...If a woman is being assaulted she should say something. 

If a woman CHOOSES to work at a place where the waitresses are picked because of the size of their breast.. then you should not bitch when a man says you have a nice pair of tits. It is what the restaurant is known for. If you choose to work there then you should expect to hear it. 

NOW if he is saying bring those tits over here for me to suck on... he has gone to far and that should be reported. 

Some catcalling is a compliment. He whistles at you and says you look beautiful today.. and keeps it moving it is a compliment. If he whistles and says bring all that ass this way and let me handle it.. he is harassing you that is not a compliment. Now if you are wearing shorts or a skirt that is showing half your ass, then don't expect a man in the street to say you look beautiful, because the impression that you are giving him is that you are easy and he will treat as such and say bring all that ass over here.


It is not victim blaming. Wearing clothes that will show more than they should is going to give off an impression. You don;t see hookers on the corner dressed as nuns do you? They are out there with there tits and ass showing. so if you are going out in public dressed like a hooker, expect the same comments from men that they give the hooker.

There it is in plain English.


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## AuntHen (Mar 5, 2014)

Yes, I understand that. Would you also agree that in knowing this and because we *expect *men to behave as "*gentlemen *", that it would only be considered *fair *that we would expect women to also behave as "*ladies*"?


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## superodalisque (Mar 5, 2014)

bigmac said:


> Humans are sexual animals. In the expression of our sexuality we walk a thin line between flirting and harassment -- between assertive sexuality and assault. That some people are going to transgress is inevitable.
> 
> IMO the best way to mitigate inappropriate behavior is to be more open about sexuality. Our culture exposes us the coarse aspects of sexuality but subtleties are often much less understood.



I do find most sexual imagery regarding BBWs to be coarse cheap and exploitative. it would be nice to see us portrayed and beautiful and sexy somewhere. with fat women there seems to be absolutely no unobtainability quotient . a friend of mine refers to it as the BBW trailer trash syndrome. we are always portrayed as easy cheap pickings either under the bleachers, on a pole, for sale cheap for 14.99 a view or a five dollar tip. I'm waiting for something really glorious and worshipful. it might not be everyone's taste but I'd like to have my mind blown like that just once.


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## Blackjack (Mar 5, 2014)

lucca23v2 said:


> Now if you are wearing shorts or a skirt that is showing half your ass, then don't expect a man in the street to say you look beautiful, because the impression that you are giving him is that you are easy and he will treat as such and say bring all that ass over here.
> 
> 
> It is not victim blaming. Wearing clothes that will show more than they should is going to give off an impression. You don;t see hookers on the corner dressed as nuns do you? They are out there with there tits and ass showing. so if you are going out in public dressed like a hooker, expect the same comments from men that they give the hooker.
> ...



Fuck this line of thinking. Fuck this attitude that people deserve to be treated poorly because of how they dress. You're placing the blame on the woman for the harassment that she gets with this, and that's bullshit that does nothing but permit that harassment to continue by ignoring the people who perpetrate it.



fat9276 said:


> Yes, I understand that. Would you also agree that in knowing this and because we *expect *men to behave as "*gentlemen *", that it would only be considered *fair *that we would expect women to also behave as "*ladies*"?



And I'd also like to note that this concept of women being "ladies" is chauvinist bullshit that treats women as lesser members of society.


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## AuntHen (Mar 5, 2014)

Blackjack, that makes me wonder how you would define a gentleman then.


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## CastingPearls (Mar 5, 2014)

I don't agree that a woman deserves any kind of harassment or abuse based on what she wears. There are entire cultures (belief systems and countries) who've taken this line of thinking to such a degree that if an ankle or wrist is shown, a woman can be beaten (or stoned) in the street. 

I don't care if a woman dresses like a hooker, or if she is a hooker. She doesn't deserve to get 'what's coming to her' based on what she wears. No one should. There's obviously a difference of opinion here of what's a compliment, what's an insult, what's acceptable sexy talk and what isn't, but to say a woman should expect it is going too far. And I can read, so I get the 'I'm not advocating abuse' but it's a very fine line to say one should expect words because conversations, this thread for example, can turn on a single word. I think it is absolutely victim blaming.

Maybe that isn't what the point of the thread was, but it certainly was headed in that direction and threads usually meander off-topic anyway. It belongs to the group discussing it once it's put out there. If anything, this thread serves as an example of how talking about one thing can be misperceived, twisted, or even loaded to begin with. IJS


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 5, 2014)

well.. as they say.. opinions are like........

Fact is..

if you dress like a slob.. you will be treated differently than a person who is dress to impress.

it is the same things as dressing classy and sexy.. and dressing like a hooker.. dress sexy and classy, and you will be treated differently than when you dress like a hooker with everything hanging out. 

If you want people to perceive you a certain way, than dress the part.

I am sure everyone has heard "Dress for the position you want, not the position you have" and I use this because we have long since left the topic of hooters and their uniforms.

It is not rocket science. It is not even 2 grade science.


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## AuntHen (Mar 5, 2014)

No one deserves harassment or abuse. No one. But people need to stop pretending or acting like women aren't rational, thinking creatures that know EXACTLY what their bodies do to other people when they dress or act a certain way. That they don't actually TRY for certain attention.

Let's say for example, I decide to work at a strip club and am shaking my boobs up on stage and some guy yells "yeah shake those titties!". I am not going to get my panties in a bunch over it. I am working in a strip club, shaking my titties.

If I work at Fat Hooters and a man tells me I have a sexy fat belly (because we all know Fat Hooters would probably have them show their bellies), same thing. 

Lumping this in with harassment/abuse, as I feel some are trying to do, is ridiculous. This is just my opinion.


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## CastingPearls (Mar 5, 2014)

Nope, it's not rocket science. We can agree there. It's sociology which ranges from the micro level of individual agency and interaction to the macro level of systems and the social structure. That's not second grade science either, FYI. It's a lot more complex than that and can't simply be boiled down 'if you dress like a slob.....' 

Although some may have moved on, the topic may still be of interest to others who can discuss it rationally...or dismissively, depending on their ability and desire to interact, agree, and disagree like adults.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 5, 2014)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDXEgBh0TF0


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## penguin (Mar 5, 2014)

fat9276 said:


> Yes, I understand that. Would you also agree that in knowing this and because we *expect *men to behave as "*gentlemen *", that it would only be considered *fair *that we would expect women to also behave as "*ladies*"?



I don't expect men to act like "gentlemen" or women to act like "ladies." I'm not pushing outdated gender roles on anyone. I expect people to treat each other with RESPECT. If someone holds the door open for me, I'll say thank you. I'll hold the door open for others if they're coming through behind me, because it's good manners. Nothing to do with chivalry or being a gentleman or lady.



lucca23v2 said:


> If a woman CHOOSES to work at a place where the waitresses are picked because of the size of their breast.. then you should not bitch when a man says you have a nice pair of tits. It is what the restaurant is known for. If you choose to work there then you should expect to hear it.



No no no no no no no no no no no.

I expect people to behave in an environment appropriate manner. In a strip club, yes, you're expected to admire the women and look at the bodies and enjoy that. But if you cross the line, if you touch them when you're not allowed, or you speak to them in a way they find insulting, you get kicked out. The rules of behaviour are VERY clear in a strip club, and they're usually strictly enforced (in good clubs, anyway). In a restaurant, I don't care WHAT the person is wearing, you treat the waitstaff with respect. You don't grope, or leer, or make rude comments. I don't care if it's a topless bar or a fancy five star restaurant. You can admire the view, sure, but you still treat them like the people they are.



> Some catcalling is a compliment.


Catcalling is NOT a compliment. It is street harassment. End of story. If someone is yelling out to you, how is it a compliment? They're treating you like a piece of meat, there for their visual satisfaction.



> He whistles at you and says you look beautiful today.. and keeps it moving it is a compliment. If he whistles and says bring all that ass this way and let me handle it.. he is harassing you that is not a compliment. Now if you are wearing shorts or a skirt that is showing half your ass, then don't expect a man in the street to say you look beautiful, because the impression that you are giving him is that you are easy and he will treat as such and say bring all that ass over here.


There are men out there who will make comments like that about women who are wearing jeans, long skirts, clothes that cover their body. Are they "asking for it" too? NO. Quit with the victim blaming. Catcalling is harassment. It is sexually objectifying the victim and attitudes like this are trying to force the idea that she should be grateful someone finds her attractive, like it's the ultimate goal in life for women. 

The people who behave this way need to be taught to NOT do it.



> It is not victim blaming. Wearing clothes that will show more than they should is going to give off an impression. You don;t see hookers on the corner dressed as nuns do you? They are out there with there tits and ass showing. so if you are going out in public dressed like a hooker, expect the same comments from men that they give the hooker.
> 
> There it is in plain English.


That is indeed victim blaming. You are putting the onus of the behaviour ont the victim. Why should the woman be blamed for a man's response? No matter what it is a woman wears, someone will pull out the "but she was dressed like that" excuse. Maybe her ankle showed. Maybe her hair was uncovered. Maybe she was wearing shorts and a crop top. Maybe she was wearing a suit. Slut!

I don't see hookers on the street around here, but they're allowed to work from brothels. I don't give a flying fuck what a hooker wears - because I don't think there's anything wrong with being a sex worker. Sex workers need to be respected, just like people in any other profession. If the customer treats the sex worker badly, then she can refuse service and he can be removed from the establishment. A sex worker does NOT have to provide a service to everyone who wants to pay for it. They do have a choice, and they can refuse service upfront, or cancel it during. 



fat9276 said:


> No one deserves harassment or abuse. No one. But people need to stop pretending or acting like women aren't rational, thinking creatures that know EXACTLY what their bodies do to other people when they dress or act a certain way. That they don't actually TRY for certain attention.



So what if they dress a certain way? We know the majority of humans are sexual creatures. The irrationality comes from the catcaller, because they're under the impression their opinion matters and is wanted.



> Let's say for example, I decide to work at a strip club and am shaking my boobs up on stage and some guy yells "yeah shake those titties!". I am not going to get my panties in a bunch over it. I am working in a strip club, shaking my titties.
> 
> If I work at Fat Hooters and a man tells me I have a sexy fat belly (because we all know Fat Hooters would probably have them show their bellies), same thing.


Context is everything. If a customer crosses the line at a strip club, like I said earlier, you could get him kicked out. Hooters isn't a strip club. It has women in skimpy clothing, but that doesn't mean that it's okay to tell the staff just how you're objectifying them.



> Lumping this in with harassment/abuse, as I feel some are trying to do, is ridiculous. This is just my opinion.


It's inappropriate behaviour for the venue. My opinion is that you're falling into the victim blaming mentality, and absolving the men of their actions.

This video is worth watching. "Oppressed majority takes place in an alternate reality where women jog half naked and work while the men take care of the kids and endure daily sexual harassment."


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## AuntHen (Mar 6, 2014)

My opinion is that *everyone * has a responsibility in what goes on in their life. How we conduct ourselves (and that includes men and women) is important. Where we go and what we do is important. I know that not every man and woman thinks and/or reacts the same. I know that not every man and woman has the same strengths and weaknesses. 

I also know that common sense is a wonderful thing.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 6, 2014)

fat9276 said:


> My opinion is that *everyone * has a responsibility in what goes on in their life. How we conduct ourselves (and that includes men and women) is important. Where we go and what we do is important. I know that not every man and woman thinks and/or reacts the same. I know that not every man and woman has the same strengths and weaknesses.
> 
> I also know that common sense is a wonderful thing.



Here Here!


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## bmann0413 (Mar 6, 2014)

All I have to say is that if there was a "Fat Hooters" or whatever, it needs to have great food. The food at Hooters is kinda bland and nothing to write home about. lol


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## penguin (Mar 6, 2014)

Yes, common sense is important. That does not absolve the acts of those who harass and disrespect others.


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## superodalisque (Mar 6, 2014)

actually the more i think about it, for their sake, i think i am more than glad it doesn't exist to save fat women more objectifying bull they don't need to deal with for just 2.75 and hour and having to beg like trained seals for the rest of their livelihood.


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## Yakatori (Mar 6, 2014)

There's a recurring theme at work here. You're so frustrated with how much further (you think) things really need to go, that you basically cut-off (at the knees) any kind of incremental-progress.

There are people who work at Hooters that like it. That have little or no problem with either the theme or being looked at or admired. Nor are they, for the time being, concerned about harassment.

Certainly, they make a lot more than 2.72 an hour, nor do they beg like trained seals. In an economic climate where jobs on the whole are difficult to come by.

To me, it has that feel of Ivory-tower thinking, to be making choices for other people. To impose or project my own morality or values onto their situation. Calls to mind the admonishment of those would have college athletes delay going pro....so they can finish school!


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## superodalisque (Mar 6, 2014)

Yakatori said:


> There's a recurring theme at work here. You're so frustrated with how much further (you think) things really need to go, that you basically cut-off (at the knees) any kind of incremental-progress.
> 
> There are people who work at Hooters that like it. That have little or no problem with either the theme or being looked at or admired. Nor are they, for the time being, concerned about harassment.
> 
> ...



i think you are fantasizing if you think it is the kind of job anyone really enjoys and if you think positive comments aren't mostly planted or contrived. the thing that keeps women planted to jobs like waitressing is not enjoyment. it's desperation for money. waiting tables is one of the ten worst jobs in america. sorry if i don't wish that on my fat girls. and if it is an ivory tower that i want more for my fat girls i'm very happy to stand on top of one. i want the best for them most especially when we are dreaming for them. dreams are for high expectations i would think. 

actually i was wrong. the federal minimum wage for waitstaff is 2.13 an hour and some states are exempted from that altogether.

PS: you might find this interesting:

http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm



Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About Working At Hooters
ASHLEY LUTZ 
JAN. 7, 2013, 5:22 PM 671,207 21

inShare
EMAIL MORE

hooters waitresses
Wikimedia Commons


Q: Was the pay better than other restaurants?
Q: Was the pay better than other restaurants?

A: No. Maybe slightly more, but nothing too significant. Your salary there is pretty comparable with other sit-down, chain restaurant

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/hooters-waitress-tells-all-2013-1?op=1#ixzz2vArHSF47


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## AuntHen (Mar 6, 2014)

penguin said:


> Yes, common sense is important. That does not absolve the acts of those who harass and disrespect others.




I am not absolving anyone or anything. The point you seem to be missing, is that you may *want *society to behave a certain way but guess what, there *are *creeps out there. There *are *perverts out there. There *are *people with disorders (mentally, emotionally, physically) and they are not going to behave the way you want, just because you want. There are deviants who FLOCK to certain locations.

It's irresponsible of women to not ask themselves... is what I wear or where I go or where I work, going to put me more at risk to situations I do not want? It's irresponsible of women to not take precautions and protect themselves. 

I live in the city and I know not to go to certain areas of town after dark (the normal streets themselves are more dangerous at night even ). Creeps are out in broad daylight on the streets here, it's worse at night. Is it victim blaming mentality (by the way, I notice you seem to want to put labels on everything and especially on everyone that you disagree with) to say, it's *unwise *for women to go to those places, especially after dark? That by doing so they are putting themselves at risk? Because I am a liberated woman, I can go where I want, anytime I want? I mean, people should and need to behave right? It's what I deserve right?


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## AuntHen (Mar 6, 2014)

fat9276 said:


> Because I am a liberated woman, I can go where I want, anytime I want without *any *risk or consequence? I mean, people should and need to behave right? It's what I deserve right? I just need to *blindly *expect it?




Sorry, I want to edit this last sentence and it's too late to do on the original post now, so will correct on a new one (I wrote this too early in the morning).

*correction in the quote*


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## Saoirse (Mar 6, 2014)

lucca23v2 said:


> You don;t see hookers on the corner dressed as nuns do you?



Thats it, right there, black and white.


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## Saoirse (Mar 6, 2014)

fat9276 said:


> No one deserves harassment or abuse. No one. But people need to stop pretending or acting like women aren't rational, thinking creatures that know EXACTLY what their bodies do to other people when they dress or act a certain way. That they don't actually TRY for certain attention.
> 
> Let's say for example, I decide to work at a strip club and am shaking my boobs up on stage and some guy yells "yeah shake those titties!". I am not going to get my panties in a bunch over it. I am working in a strip club, shaking my titties.
> 
> ...




This too. :bow:


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## Saoirse (Mar 6, 2014)

lol Penguin, have you ever been to a strip joint? Touching will not get you thrown out. If you have enough money you can touch anything you want. Girls be strippin to make money!


You EXPECT people to behave appropriately, but the plain old fact is that people will behave however the hell they want, whether you deem it appropriate or not.

And some chicks are cool with being catcalled, so they dress the way they dress.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 6, 2014)

Saoirse said:


> lol Penguin, have you ever been to a strip joint? Touching will not get you thrown out. If you have enough money you can touch anything you want. Girls be strippin to make money!
> 
> 
> You EXPECT people to behave appropriately, but the plain old fact is that people will behave however the hell they want, whether you deem it appropriate or not.
> ...



THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## penguin (Mar 6, 2014)

Saoirse said:


> lol Penguin, have you ever been to a strip joint? Touching will not get you thrown out. If you have enough money you can touch anything you want. Girls be strippin to make money!



I have, yes. I know different clubs have different rules, but customer who still behave inappropriately will get thrown out. Stripping doesn't involve touching. 



> You EXPECT people to behave appropriately, but the plain old fact is that people will behave however the hell they want, whether you deem it appropriate or not.



...duh? 



> And some chicks are cool with being catcalled, so they dress the way they dress.



And some women aren't cool with being catcalled, and they'll still dress the way they dress.

Some people may be okay with it, but that doesn't mean that it's okay. Going from your posts on here, I'm under the impression you have minimal empathy for other people, so I don't expect you to understand.


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## J34 (Mar 6, 2014)

Post it took for thread to Derail: #10.


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## Blackjack (Mar 6, 2014)

J34 said:


> Post it took for thread to Derail: #10.



This might be the most useless post I've seen in a long time, and that's saying something.


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## Yakatori (Mar 6, 2014)

superodalisque said:


> "_...i don't wish that on my fat girls. and if *it is an ivory tower that* i want more for my fat girls *i'm very happy to stand on top of* one. i want the best for them most especially when we are dreaming for them. dreams are for high expectations i would think._"


It's not for what you wish-for that the ivory-tower comes to mind. It's more in how cavalier one can be in appreciating the importance of their own vision or ideas (dreams or delusions included here as well) over the nuts and bolts that're holding someone else's life together. How easily a potential ally or source of support is of 'no help,' once they step however slightly out of line with (hot-house reared) great-expectations. How it's conceived that fewer choices are somehow actually better than more. How your own feeling or want means more than what happens as the wheels meet the road.


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## superodalisque (Mar 6, 2014)

Yakatori said:


> It's not for what you wish-for that the ivory-tower comes to mind. It's more in how cavalier one can be in appreciating the importance of their own vision or ideas (dreams or delusions included here as well) over the nuts and bolts that're holding someone else's life together. How easily a potential ally or source of support is of 'no help,' once they step however slightly out of line with (hot-house reared) great-expectations. How it's conceived that fewer choices are somehow actually better than more. How your own feeling or want means more than what happens as the wheels meet the road.



I is true that I may want different things. but that might sometimes be because I may have some experience re: how unromantic, and not fun certain things really are.


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