# New Movie..."Just Friends"



## Obesus (Nov 11, 2005)

Well, OK...here is the BHM version of "Shallow Hal" in some ways, eh?
I think this speaks pretty well for itself..
"He loves her. She loves him not"....quite the little tagline there.... 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0433400/

http://www.cinemablend.com/new.php?id=1606


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## fatlane (Nov 11, 2005)

I plan to not see it.


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## Shylla (Nov 11, 2005)

What the hell? That looks terrible. Thanks for the warning about what horrors we can expect to see in theaters soon.


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## Obesus (Nov 11, 2005)

The girl falls in love with him AFTER he loses weight and becomes a Hollywood type wheeler-dealer...that just about sums up the dominant meme structure. Fat men are not to be approached as romantic partners and can even be considered taboo; the image of fat men conveys a non-virile, even sterile sexual partner who is unable to reproduce or even to hold a decent job...at least that is the image that science and business have painted since the 1920's...this also explains the upward battle that FFA's have to fight, because the image is pervasive and deep...even hard-wired, as all memes are.:shocked: 




Shylla said:


> What the hell? That looks terrible. Thanks for the warning about what horrors we can expect to see in theaters soon.


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## fatlane (Nov 11, 2005)

Poor old Fatty Arbuckle... never got an even shake...


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## Obesus (Nov 11, 2005)

Conspiracy mavens have always had the sneaking suspicion that the whole thing was a set-up job. I tend to agree! 



fatlane said:


> Poor old Fatty Arbuckle... never got an even shake...


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## Jeannie (Nov 11, 2005)

Obesus said:


> Well, OK...here is the BHM version of "Shallow Hal" in some ways, eh?
> I think this speaks pretty well for itself..
> "He loves her. She loves him not"....quite the little tagline there....
> 
> ...



Sickening!


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## Obesus (Nov 11, 2005)

It does make one realize just how deep the prejudice against fat runs...and this highlights the fact that fat men are singled out because they are expected to be poor sexual partners and financially challenged. This is definitely sign of an uphill battle! It does explain why so many fat men tend to be isolated and socially rejected before they even have a chance..unless they can rise above the dominant meme and prove themselves..Orson Welles comes to mind, but look at how much fun was made of Marlon Brando when he became fat.....it was because he reversed his previous sexual attractiveness and became sexless in the minds of the media. This also brings to mind Baudrillard's hypothesis that the obese make sex redundant..I am getting new insight on that with this film and the poster...:shocked: 



Jeannie said:


> Sickening!


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## Qit el-Remel (Nov 12, 2005)

BHMs aren't sterile. An ex-lover of mine got his girlfriend pregnant _quite early in their relationship_, presumably by accident.

They seem to be dealing well enough thus far...but I'm keeping my fingers crossed on their behalf, because _talk about rushing things_!

-Qit


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## SnapDragon (Nov 12, 2005)

That's really degrading. So degrading they couldn't even get a real fat guy to play the part and had to use some weedy little bloke with a pillow stuffed up his jumper and a very unconvincing side of pork wrapped around his neck.

This is the thing I hate most about fatprejudice in the film industry. Even if there's an awful offensive film with a fat chap in it, at least you can go and ogle and appreciate the actor. If it's just some unattractive berk covered in silicone rubber, then you are denied even that privelege! It looks disgusting! Gentlemen, if you don't understand this, compare it with how you would feel if the producers cast a man in drag with a strap-on rubber bosom in the role of a woman!

-SnapDragon.


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## SherbetLemon (Nov 12, 2005)

Obesus, you wrote "the image of fat men conveys a non-virile, even sterile sexual partner who is unable to reproduce or even to hold a decent job...at least that is the image that science and business have painted since the 1920's"

Do you have more info on that to share? I'm interested in stuff about how stereotypes are created, function in society, etc, etc.


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## pani (Nov 12, 2005)

Without denying the reality of fat prejudice, it is also quite possible this is a marketing scheme cooked up by a diet related sponsor to give men the same sense of sexual insecurity as women. And therefore send them rünning to the diet companies. Such practices do exist. Remember how tobacco companies paid stars to smoke.  I was just reading on a website that deals with PR that the pharmaceutical companies commissioned a book about terrorists poisoning drugs imported from Canada to scare the public off imported drugs. How these scumbags sleep at night is beyond me.


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## Obesus (Nov 12, 2005)

....or cultural gene comes from Richard Dawkins' book "The Selfish Gene." There are a ton of books out on this concept of hard-wired cultural memes now...such as Robert Aunger's "The Electric Meme." The "meme" is a metaphor for the idea of information particles that replicate themselves as people exchange information. The new science of "memetics" is wrapped up with cognitive science and neuroscience and it is beginning to pack a potent punch as a way of explaining how cultural values and ideas are transmitted so quickly across media, for example. Previous to the turn of the Century, "Fat" was perceived in a variety of ways, but it was generally a sought-after sign of wealth, sensuosity and power. There was a gender differential even then, but let us just focus for a second on the general idea of "fat" as a cultural icon. The late 19th Century was also the period of the burgeoning "health" movement with clubs forming around the world for exercise, weight reduction and the beginnings of the public health system in a lot of countries. The key turning point, I believe, was the rise of eugenics as a (pseudo)science during the 1920's. The whole concept of breeding perfect, fit and healthy children arose during that period after WWI and it is no accident that the basic meme of fat turned in the opposite direction once it became the more predominant meme that "fitness" was the highest ideal and eugenically demanded. There are so many books and resources on this that I suppose I should produce a list of resources....okey dokey...I will put them on my website in the "Fat Studies" department! Hmmmm...I will have to get that up on the site too! LOL I hope that gives you just a basic idea of what forces were at work...it is, of course, vastly more complex, but these huge memes were certainly at war, just as the European countries had been just a few years previous  :bow: 




SherbetLemon said:


> Obesus, you wrote "the image of fat men conveys a non-virile, even sterile sexual partner who is unable to reproduce or even to hold a decent job...at least that is the image that science and business have painted since the 1920's"
> 
> Do you have more info on that to share? I'm interested in stuff about how stereotypes are created, function in society, etc, etc.


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## Shylla (Nov 12, 2005)

Pani:
I would not be greatly surprised if advertisers were trying to think of such schemes. Men who are chubby are generally more positive feeling about it than women who are so, although I believe the level of negativity-towards-self is equal once you get into people in the category of "fat" or "obese". I can see someone wanting to take advantage of a situation to make those guys who are okay with not being slim atheletes feel the low self-esteem too.

Obesus:
Fascinating stuff! I'm inclined to believe that meme theory is true. The major shift in our culture towards demonization of fat all at once in the 20th century is amazing. Those countries of Europe and the Americas that now look down on the fat once created such lovely classical art pieces depicting noblemen with promontory bellies and thick forms, and shapely women of many sizes and builds. I wonder how someone can look at that art in museums, and deny that part of the beauty of it is the forms depicted?


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## Obesus (Nov 12, 2005)

I am also beginning to suspect that the level of hysteria against fat is becoming more equalized across gender. I have seen a few studies that indicate that the number of men who are obsessed with weight and appearance is on the rise, as is the number of male anorechics. We have had a couple at our mental health clinic. who had turned to methamphetamine or other drugs specifially to remain thin. People are generally fatter, but the attitudes toward being fat are not automatically shifting toward the positive. Our statistically tiny community here is barely a blip on the radar. I remember back in the 60's there was talk about an "Obese Subculture" composed of folks who genuinely enjoyed being hugely fat and even enhancing it and the number of folks in that subculture may remain resolutely tiny, unless there is a huge outside shift in the dominant meme. Rising numbers of obese people may just lead to draconian political measures. A lot of this is a sub-dominant reaction to the dominance of the male religious and philosophical ideas of the West...a shift towards a more Goddess oriented or Afro-Oriental set of religious ideals would be enough to cause a major change...and that may be a force out there! The future will be a wild and crazy place to be! :shocked: 



Shylla said:


> Pani:
> I would not be greatly surprised if advertisers were trying to think of such schemes. Men who are chubby are generally more positive feeling about it than women who are so, although I believe the level of negativity-towards-self is equal once you get into people in the category of "fat" or "obese". I can see someone wanting to take advantage of a situation to make those guys who are okay with not being slim atheletes feel the low self-esteem too.


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## bigwideland (Nov 12, 2005)

I have enjoyed the posts in this thread; the movie is a self righteous bit of manipulative social engineering crap and is hunting money of equally limp minded people that may go see it. 

It is all part of the metro sexual, the men must use skin cream and have gay make overs, it's all about not being okay with how or what you are or what you have or do not having but they do have, getting you into the spend money scene that so annoyes we about the inhuman and insane culture that has develop in this world today. 

I for one are fat, I like it and anyone that wishs to alter me had better have a lot of time on their hands.

BWL.


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## Obesus (Nov 13, 2005)

Exactly who was this movie intended for? It is romantic comedy...but who would enjoy this story and why? Is it a male version of the cinderella story, or is it about the shallowness of "lookist" society..it is hard to tell without knowing more about it, but on the face of it, it seems to be a straight-up put-down of fat men....but why? why on earth would they use fat men, except for the Jerry Springer shock value? It is still a bit of a mystery and I am thinking that it might be interesting social research to figure out why they made this turkey...movies aren't made for much more reason than to make money, so we have to assume they expected to make a profit...oh, that is the other thing...there is a "jolly fat man" stereotype going on here as well in the poster....how does that fit in with being rejected by this woman because of his weight? It is starting to give me the heebie jeebies! :shocked: 



bigwideland said:


> I have enjoyed the posts in this thread; the movie is a self righteous bit of manipulative social engineering crap and is hunting money of equally limp minded people that may go see it.
> 
> BWL.


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## cute_obese_girl (Nov 13, 2005)

Its not really surprising to see such an insensitive farce from Ryan Reynolds (the guy in the fat suit). Just think about what else he's done...Van Wilder and Waiting. Also very low brow, disgusting and often offensive humor. 

No offense to people who think he's funny, I just can't stand him.


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## Edward (Nov 13, 2005)

Shylla said:


> Men who are chubby are generally more positive feeling about it than women who are


I don't agree at all. Men are just programmed that showing any emotional weakness is unacceptable. That doesn't mean we don't feel pain. We just don't feel safe showing it.

_I believe the level of negativity-towards-self is equal once you get into people in the category of "fat" or "obese"._

I think it's equal, period. That it's socially acceptable for men to be fat is a fantasy invented by people who obviously have no idea what they're talking about. Unlike me, as I've been dealing with anti-fat bigotry from men and women since 7th grade. There wasn't any less of it and it didn't hurt any less because I am male. 

_I can see someone wanting to take advantage of a situation to make those guys who are okay with not being slim atheletes feel the low self-esteem too_

Simple-minded stereotypes about the male experience of being fat does not validate obnoxious anti-fat stereotyping. 

Sorry to rant. I've been hearing the "it's more acceptable for guys to be fat" bullshit since childhood. It was a lie then, it's a lie now. I've been hurt too much to let it pass without comment.


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## William (Nov 13, 2005)

Hi

I think that it is just another lame movie where Fat People get no respect!

Also think that it is a shame that aside from this board and a couple of other places in Fat/Size Acceptance that there is very little said to contradict the stereotypes about BHM in this movie (well the trailers is all that I have seen).

I did think that the Hockey scene with the Kids was funny 

William


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## missaf (Nov 13, 2005)

In my humble opinion, the movie poster shows an awful fat suit face and makes it all look too phoney.


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## Shylla (Nov 13, 2005)

Edward said:


> I don't agree at all. Men are just programmed that showing any emotional weakness is unacceptable. That doesn't mean we don't feel pain. We just don't feel safe showing it.
> 
> ...
> 
> I think it's equal, period. That it's socially acceptable for men to be fat is a fantasy invented by people who obviously have no idea what they're talking about.




I'm sorry that your experiences were different than those of men I know. I tend to not take hear-say on issues like that at face value. I've had several male acquaintances who were overweight -- but not more than 50 pounds so -- say they were fine with it. Perhaps you think they are lying, but all of those men I reference in my example have never shown any inclination to me to change from how they are. So, my personal experience with the issue is different.

Frankly, I take offence that you believe I was just repeating propaganda or trying to set a double-standard or trying to be insensitive towards men.  I don't believe I would be here, in a forum that regularly talks about very personal and sensitive issues of men, if such were the case.


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## Edward (Nov 13, 2005)

Shylla said:


> my personal experience with the issue is different


I believe you.

_Frankly, I take offence that you believe I was just repeating propaganda or trying to set a double-standard or trying to be insensitive towards men. _

I am sorry to have offended you. :'-( Your friends are probably truthful. But so am I. People aren't any nicer to fat men than they are to fat women. I'm unlucky in that it does bother me, even if it apparently doesn't bother your friends.

_I don't believe I would be here, in a forum that regularly talks about very personal and sensitive issues of men, if such were the case._

True. Again, I was not trying to claim otherwise. I'm going go crawl under a rock now.


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## William (Nov 13, 2005)

Hi Shylla

What you said was OK. Chubby guys do on average have it easier than fat or obese guys, especially if they are tall.

William


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## SherbetLemon (Nov 14, 2005)

Thanks to Obesus and Shylla for all the info. I'm not well informed enough about this to comment on most of it but as for why art depicting fat people is not seen as beautiful, I was thinking it may well be seen like that by quite a large number of people but the dominant ideas about fat in culture today prevents people sharing these sort of 'subversive' pro-fat thoughts. We really have no idea how large a percentage of the population would react positively to fat in art...

Any BHM paintings you'd recommend???




Shylla said:


> Pani:
> Fascinating stuff! I'm inclined to believe that meme theory is true. The major shift in our culture towards demonization of fat all at once in the 20th century is amazing. Those countries of Europe and the Americas that now look down on the fat once created such lovely classical art pieces depicting noblemen with promontory bellies and thick forms, and shapely women of many sizes and builds. I wonder how someone can look at that art in museums, and deny that part of the beauty of it is the forms depicted?


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## Obesus (Nov 15, 2005)

Depicted much fatter figures than Rubens and a lot of them are men! He is a fascinating study from the art historical viewpoint, because where Rubens represented the ideal of "high" culture, Jordaens was much more felt to be a "man of the people"...well worth googling!




SherbetLemon said:


> Thanks to Obesus and Shylla for all the info. I'm not well informed enough about this to comment on most of it but as for why art depicting fat people is not seen as beautiful, I was thinking it may well be seen like that by quite a large number of people but the dominant ideas about fat in culture today prevents people sharing these sort of 'subversive' pro-fat thoughts. We really have no idea how large a percentage of the population would react positively to fat in art...
> 
> Any BHM paintings you'd recommend???


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