# Author: FA's Make Me Want To Be Thin



## Jay West Coast

I was flipping through the cover article in the SFWeekly this morning at my local coffeeshop. The author had weight loss surgery two years ago, but I decided to read it anyway out of pure curiosity. The author goes on about how she actually cherished being 360, but in the world in which fat people have to live, it became "unreasonable" to not to live as a thin person.

As she discusses her life experience being fat (which is well written and I think people ought to be more educated to what the fat experience is), she writes a chapter about dating FA's:



> What is there to say about chubby chasers? They objectify fat women, and after eight years of no action, this ho was ready to be objectified. Everything that might disgust you about your body  your hanging belly, your cottage-cheese butt, your floppy, massive titties  got these men harder than concrete.
> 
> On the Internet I came across a guy who was conventionally handsome in his picture. He wasn't really the sort of man the thin me would go for  too square  but compared to all the other gnomes out there who liked superbig girls, he was a catch. I instant-messaged him with a picture of myself. He asked for my phone number, and for some stupid reason I gave it to him.
> 
> Small talk ensued. I said I was a writer, and he told me he was an actor currently playing Tony in Tony and Tina's Wedding in a Philly dinner theater. He instantly got very pushy about my going there to meet him. "I just feel something between us, you know?" he said. "Like, girls like you are hard to come by. That woman 'Tina' in my play, she's like this Barbie doll, totally what most men would want. She disgusts me. I like fat girls."
> 
> "Okaaaaayyyy," I responded, alarm bells going off.
> 
> He wanted to fly me out to see his show, and insisted that I would come backstage after his performance: "Yeah!" His voice was picking up in pace and he seemed, er, a bit more herky-jerky.
> 
> "You will come backstage! And I will introduce you to Tina!"
> 
> "Yeah?" I said. "I dunno ..."
> 
> "Yes! You will meet Tina, and ... and ... and then I want you to ... squish her."
> 
> He said the "squish her" part with a breathlessness that belied the release that I feared was coming.
> 
> "Squish her??!"
> 
> "Yeah! Press your big fat body into her! Press her into the floor! Ohhhhhhhh!"
> 
> Click.
> 
> I think it was at this point that I began to really consider weight-loss surgery.



After reading this, I felt really strange. Is it true? Are we weirdoes? If this liberal ultra-accepting newspaper labels us as fetishistic bucketcases, maybe I've been thinking of this all wrong.

What are your experiences with FA's? Are they the wonderful intentions of creation made to appreciate fat women for the beautiful beings they are, or a collection of fellers who could use some counseling? Was this author's experience indicative, or unfortunate and off-base?

(And, yes, part of me is posting this to hear self-affirming points that FA's are not freaks.)


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## LillyBBBW

'fraid so Jay. Some of you FA's are total pervs lacking in the social restraints the good Lord gave to the common mutt. Meeting one off the bat can be traumatizing enough to make you hit anyone who calls you beautiful as hard as you can and then run away. These circus freaks give the rest of you a bad name and unfortunatley they seem to be the ones who do most of the talking, social restraint not being one of their strong points.


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## AnnMarie

I can't answer this again - but you'll get plenty of "yes, you're freaks" responses, Jay. Hope you're ready for them. 

The FAs I've known, loved, dated, etc... not freaks. Good men who find something "unconventional" to be attractive and desireable. I don't consider the rude/tactless/pure fetish cases FAs at all... so that's not part of my experience with "effays". 

Freaks to a woman like that because she hated herself and all her fat represents - hard not to see a freak in someone who likes all you loathe.


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## Ash

Jay West Coast said:


> What are your experiences with FA's? Are they the wonderful intentions of creation made to appreciate fat women for the beautiful beings they are, or a collection of fellers who could use some counseling? Was this author's experience indicative, or unfortunate and off-base?
> 
> (And, yes, part of me is posting this to hear self-affirming points that FA's are not freaks.)



Some of you are.

I kid, I kid.

There are PLENTY of good, loving, normal FAs out there. I've met them, been friends with them, and dated them. What your writer friend here experienced is definitely NOT the norm of real-life FAs. 

I think that what the writer was experiencing has less to do with general fat admiration and more to do with a lack of social graces. Sure, it might be appealing (in the dark recesses of the normal FA's mind) to see a Barbie type overtaken by a big fattie. But a well-adjusted FA isn't going to mention that to said fattie. Especially upon first interaction, and especially when the girl is so obviously not comfortable with her size. 

I think this is a case of a guy who is letting his fantasies carry him away a little bit. Is there room for squashing fantasies and the like in fat admiration? Of course. Should he have blurted it out as if he were talking about a change in the weather? Probably not. 

Also, I think it's important to note that weird and otherwise not-socially-acceptable fantasies exist in all people. Guys who like thin girls are into weird things, too. For some reason, though, we never hear "guys who like thin girls are FREAKS" (except maybe within our own little subculture here). 

So no, FAs aren't freaks. But there are certainly some freaks who are FAs. And there are some freaks who are fat women, too. It all works out.


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## isotope

That made me lolzerz. Mostly because as many there are well read and intelligent admirers in our community, there's about five million times more weirdos. That goes for any part of society though. peeple r wrd.


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## MissToodles

There are a lot of maladjusted people online, not just endemic in this community. People don't feel free to censor themselves, so you end up speaking to a lot of um to put it mildly interesting types. It just ends up becoming happy fantasy land, where some parties see the other person just like a phone sex operator.


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## sweet&fat

Clearly this guy was a creep who is also an FA. I guess the question is if you believe that the percentage of creeps among FAs is higher than the percentage of creeps among non-FAs. My instinct is no, there are creeps among any population, but I do wonder sometimes if FAs "gone wrong" try to pull off bad behavior more often than their non-FA counterparts because they think BBWs are easier targets.


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## Tooz

Echo, echo, echo.

The FA community has a lot of weird people in it. So does the non-FA rest of the world (tm). As with everything, though, there are fantastic people within the community. The problem is, every time someone has a bad experience, you are far more likely to hear about it. "My husband likes large women, and he treats me wonderfully. I cherish every day we have together!" doesn't attract readers like "and THEN he wanted me to put my _____ on his _____! CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?"

I have seen the freaks, and I have also seen some respectable guys who are FAs. Like "normal" dating, finding a nice person is pretty much a crap shoot. That article except is depressing, though.


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## goofy girl

LillyBBBW said:


> 'fraid so Jay. Some of you FA's are total pervs lacking in the social restraints the good Lord gave to the common mutt. Meeting one off the bat can be traumatizing enough to make you hit anyone who calls you beautiful as hard as you can and then run away. These circus freaks give the rest of you a bad name and unfortunatley they seem to be the ones who do most of the talking, social restraint not being one of their strong points.



I totally agree. There are some wonderful, intelligent, kind FA's out there, however, they seem to be the minority. Or at least, as Lilly mentioned, they aren't as prominent. 

Sadly, the article you quoted seems to describe almost every FA I ever knew. Most of the FA's that I have encountered make me feel used (for the belly, the boobs, the arm fat or whatever it is they are into) and not at all that they genuinely want to know me as a person. They feel that because they admire my body and "treat me like a Goddess" (code word for oral sex, I guess?) meant that I should be OK with them grabbing my fat and shaking it or using the back of my knee as a vagina. Ummmm yeah..NO. 

No idea if any of this makes any sense (what else is new??), but..anyway, I don't think that just being an FA makes someone a freak, but there are definitely FA freaks out there-lots of them.


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## Forgotten_Futures

All other arguments about what is and isn't an FA and what fetishes are inherently FA-ish and which just involve fatness aside...

Freakishness, in most any case, is subjective. Even freaks often consider themselves to be so. In the case of fat chicks and FA's, the underlying difference arises between the fat chicks and FA's on an individual level.

You have your fat chicks who are, if not necessarily overjoyed at being fat, are at least accepting of the fact and not grossed out by their own existence. On the other hand, you have the fat people who revile themselves for getting/being fat.

No matter what you do, you aren't going to seem normal to a fat chick who hates herself if you profess, honestly or otherwise, to like her because of or in spite of her fatness. She's as likely to be disgusted by you and your feelings as she is of herself, and that's never a good relationship. You might even be lucky enough to link fatness to sexual pleasure in her head, but that'll possibly cause an even bigger rift if she differentiates what gets you on and her as being two separate things. Eventually something will fail, usually badly.

Then again, even the fat chicks who are at peace (or better) with themselves might acknowledge you as a strange person for deviating from the social norm and wanting them for them.

So yeah, we're freaks. But is that entirely a bad thing?


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## Jasminium

I think the author is being a bit wacko herself. I couldn't imagine ruling out an entire group of people just because some were nuts. If I did that, there wouldn't be anyone left to date.


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## Fascinita

Jay West Coast said:


> What are your experiences with FA's? Are they the wonderful intentions of creation made to appreciate fat women for the beautiful beings they are, or a collection of fellers who could use some counseling? Was this author's experience indicative, or unfortunate and off-base?



Both: *Several* really "not well" men who bordered on abusive and/or self-hating (which manifested as secretiveness and dishonesty) and/or manipulative and/or just plain weird. And *a handful* of really nice, regular guys. At least in my case, the author of that piece had experiences that are somewhat indicative of the situation. Though I don't think her take paints the entire picture. For instance, when I was thinner, I met weirdos, too. What's more, although I think my life would be different as a thin person, I would never get the surgery.

To me the bottom line, as far as whether life would be better as a thin girl, is that the men who wouldn't want me as a fattie are probably not the kind of men that I'd want in turn. I can't think in terms of "what if I were thinner." Well, what if I lived in a land of chocolate? That might be nice, too. But it's a dream. I have to live my life as it is *now*. I can work toward becoming thinner, if that's important to me. But it's not going to make the world a nicer place, and it's not going to keep me from feeling scorned when the boyfriend who'll date me at 125 lbs leaves me when I start gaining weight again. Life seems too short to live worried about keeping the approval of others. I do understand where this woman is coming from, though, and I have lived stories similar to those she wrote about.

I think that this author probably also experienced the whole nine yards of fat discrimination--not just in dating, but in the way people look/don't look at you, the fear of not being able to find work because one is fat, ongoing isolation, loneliness, all of the other stuff we suffer through. Not all of us are isolated or lonely or worried about not finding work, it must be said. But I don't think it's right to say that what this woman experienced is just something you can shrug off and rise above. Not everyone is equipped to do that. It takes years of patience and self-work, at least as far as I know.

Still. Surgery seems just too much of an extreme to go to to get more and less-weird men to pay attention to me. (Of course, some people have to have the surgery for the sake of staving off some other health condition. Not to mention that there can be health problems at heavier weights--though I've known people who had the surgery, and sometimes it seems they traded in one set of problems for another.) And as I said, being thinner does not mean the world is any nicer. There are weird men who like thin women exclusively, too. So I think you have to be realistic and make a life for yourself NOW. Work with what you have, and don't give out your phone number to people you don't know.


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## sweet&fat

goofy girl said:


> I totally agree. There are some wonderful, intelligent, kind FA's out there, however, they seem to be the minority. Or at least, as Lilly mentioned, they aren't as prominent.
> 
> Sadly, the article you quoted seems to describe almost every FA I ever knew. Most of the FA's that I have encountered make me feel used (for the belly, the boobs, the arm fat or whatever it is they are into) and not at all that they genuinely want to know me as a person. They feel that because they admire my body and "treat me like a Goddess" (code word for oral sex, I guess?) meant that I should be OK with them grabbing my fat and shaking it or using the back of my knee as a vagina. Ummmm yeah..NO.
> 
> No idea if any of this makes any sense (what else is new??), but..anyway, I don't think that just being an FA makes someone a freak, but there are definitely FA freaks out there-lots of them.



Yeah, many do not know the difference between admiration and objectification. Are FAs any more guilty of this than others?


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## goofy girl

sweet&fat said:


> Yeah, many do not know the difference between admiration and objectification. Are FAs any more guilty of this than others?



Like others have mentioned this is probably an issue that affects all sorts of fetishes, or preferences. I'm sure it's all the same no matter what ..."community"?..you are in. But, this is the one I know!


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## Mini

The Internet is a double-edged sword: It gives everyone a voice while reminding us that some people should be silenced. Or, in other words, you're going to meet some nice, normal people, but the ones that you'll remember are the socially inept jackasses. I imagine it's exacerbated somewhat due to our community's relatively small size; sorta how nothing travels faster than bad news.

Does that make any sense?


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## goofy girl

Mini said:


> The Internet is a double-edged sword: It gives everyone a voice while reminding us that some people should be silenced. Or, in other words, you're going to meet some nice, normal people, but the ones that you'll remember are the socially inept jackasses. I imagine it's exacerbated somewhat due to our community's relatively small size; sorta how nothing travels faster than bad news.
> 
> Does that make any sense?




It does 

Oh, and I really hope the woman that wrote that article doesn't think that if she loses weight, then all of a sudden she's gonna find Prince Charming a week later. She'll probably have to weed out a few more freaks before she does.


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## Forgotten_Futures

sweet&fat said:


> Yeah, many do not know the difference between admiration and objectification. Are FAs any more guilty of this than others?


 
Objectification always comes into play somewhere. If you masturbate, you're objectifying someone or something in order to get off. Thus far in life I've come to the tentative conclusion that if someone turns you on simply by existing, it's probably not admiration.

For instance, there's a young woman who works in a pizza shop next door to where I work. She's pregnant, and showing nicely. I find this a highly arousing thing. However, outside of this pregnancy, I never paid much attention to her - she's simply not my type of person. I'm objectifiying her as a pregnant woman simply by being turned on at her current state. Admittedly, I am somewhat ashamed at myself for this. Still, I admit it's a fact of being human. It happens. Not objectifying people in any way is effectively dooming yourself to a life without arousal. Does that mean it's okay? In the confines of a relationship where both partners are okay with it, sure. In normal day-to-day stuff, yeah. Telling random fat people you want to see them squashing someone without so much as accounting for their opinion on the matter? Defintely not okay.


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## Blackjack

So basically, some FA's are total perverted creeps who objectify fat women.

It's also worth noting that there's some men who are total perverted creeps and who objectify women.

Who would've thought that a difference in preferred body shape might mean that we're like normal guys?

So the guy was a fucking creep. Lots of guys are, regardless of what they like.


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## goofy girl

Blackjack said:


> So basically, some FA's are total perverted creeps who objectify fat women.
> 
> It's also worth noting that there's some men who are total perverted creeps and who objectify women.
> 
> Who would've thought that a difference in preferred body shape might mean that we're like normal guys?
> 
> So the guy was a fucking creep. Lots of guys are, regardless of what they like.



I think that's the point almost all of us are getting at...regardless of preference, there's creeps and there's non creeps.

Personally, I have met alot of creepy FA's..however, I was also _looking_ for FA's, so I probably met more of them than other types. 

This is giving me a headache.


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## Blackjack

goofy girl said:


> I think that's the point almost all of us are getting at...regardless of preference, there's creeps and there's non creeps.



Yeah, but I did the SparkNotes version for people like myself with limited attention span.


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## goofy girl

Blackjack said:


> Yeah, but I did the SparkNotes version for people like myself with limited attention span.



is that what we used to call Cliff's Notes??


BTW, you're non-creepy Kevin (usually hahaha)


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## Blackjack

goofy girl said:


> BTW, you're non-creepy Kevin (usually hahaha)



Means I have to try harder, I guess.


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## Sweet Tooth

Seems that, if you have a couple of people whose primary initial source of connection is one of their bodies, you're going to have some level of objectification. Some people just take it obnoxiously far, as if you're there for their use until they're done with you, as if you have no basic rights or feelings of your own. And it seems that the internet brings out these latent tendencies in people who might otherwise at least *try* to be respectful in person.

Bothers me, but I realize it's going to be the same in other ways for other groups of people. If the person has a fundamental disrespect, it won't matter whether they're attracted to fat women or people of a certain color or whatever it may be. They'll objectify the target of the moment.

I've seen some FAs be pretty pathetic, but I've seen that in non-FAs too.


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## liz (di-va)

That article...oy. Thanks for pointing it out!

It's worth reading the whole thing--there's a lot more than the FA bit--as she was somebody who was very involved with fat politics and burlesque, etc. She wasn't somebody who flirted with the idea of being out and proud as a fat chick; she actually was for a while. But then had the surgery anyhow, also despite a lack of (current) health problems.

It's interesting because it's honest. Also icky and alarming and saddening cause it's honest. Also, because like so many pieces these days, it's hopelessly first-person without any thoughtful context about (for instance) FAs, and whom she was speakin for there. She doesn't do anything very helpful or human in her writing there imho. Last time I checked the internet was a fine way to meet weirdos, period.

Her editors should have cut out this line, give me a break:

"I no longer have to post "Lost Dog" signs around town, all the while not knowing that the Chihuahua is actually wedged between my butt cheeks. D'oh!)"


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## ripley

I struggle with this. A LOT. I don't think all FAs are freaks, but there sure are a lot who are. I don't think this guy is a freak for getting off on the squashing-a-Barbie scenario; I think he is a freak for pushing it on a woman he had just met. And that's the rub. I think liking fat women is almost taboo for some, and when they get in an environment (online, at a bash, whatever) where BBWs abound and are looking for love...I think the possibility of having the taboo FA/BBW love come true makes them run wild with every other fantasy they have ever had. It's almost like "Now all my dreams can come true! YOU THERE, RANDOM FAT GIRL, MAKE THEM COME TRUE!" And the BBW is thinking "WTF? I just want a guy who is nice and funny, into me, and not ashamed to be seen with me in public."

Obsessive people are no fun (whether it is a fat-related obsession or speaking in nothing but Klingon, or collecting Civil War Memorabilia to the exclusion of buying food). One note songs are boring, and played long enough are downright creepy. I don't think I'm rare in saying that if I met a guy, got to know and like him, had had conversations about many other things, and _then_ he shared his squashing-a-Barbie fantasy with me...I'd be game to play at it. It's the difference between a man with a slightly off the norm fantasy and a walking obsession that can only see itself.


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## Zoom

I think the author should come here and defend her statements if she wants us to treat her with any sort of respect. Calling FAs "gnomes" just because of a few bad examples really gets my goat. I ought to invade her garden wearing a red pointy hat!


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## AnnMarie

Zoom said:


> I think the author should come here and defend her statements if she wants us to treat her with any sort of respect. Calling FAs "gnomes" just because of a few bad examples really gets my goat. I ought to invade her garden wearing a red pointy hat!



I think the last thing in the WORLD I want is anyone with that attitude gracing us with their presence. 

All set.


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## Jack Skellington

There's a lot of perverts out there!? On the Internet no less!? Wow, there's a shock. Thank you Captain Obvious. Just one little thing she seems to be glossing over, thin women have to deal with pervs too. Objectification and assholery knows no size limit.


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## Sandie S-R

Oh, Jay....

Well, I'm sure you will get a lot of the same kind of stuff, but here goes. Yes, I have met some real and total pond scum FAs, some very socially backward FAs, some really arrogant FA's, and some really great, kind and wonderful FAs. (Fortunately I'm married to one in the last category). And Jay, I would definitely put you in that category as well.  

Just like men who like thin women are all different, FAs are all different too. There are fabulous ones, and total creeps, and everything in between. I must admit though that I think if a women is confident, together, and values herself, (whether she is fat or thin) the men she dates will be the good ones, because she chooses wisely.


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## Jon Blaze

Jasminium said:


> I think the author is being a bit wacko herself. I couldn't imagine ruling out an entire group of people just because some were nuts. If I did that, there wouldn't be anyone left to date.



I have to agree, and she's a prime example of people that as much as I would love to try to show some light on them, I wouldn't consider worth my time. It's great to describe one guy as being unacceptable to her, but she jumped all the way to prejudice. She may think being thin makes her impervious (Or that someone like me would date her, let alone associate HAHA! WHAT A JOKE! I don't care what size she is!), but she's only fooling herself.


I agree with the general consensus of FAs too. There's definitely some FAs that I know are good souls (Like Jay West of course  ), but others that I'm sure we can't say the same for. I know I'm not perfect either, but I'm also far from fetishism. I don't know if we should be considered god sends too, because the reality is: We're just men/women. 

It does open my eyes a bit. My opponents usually use that as a poorly executed ad hominem ("Omg u have no reason to talk, cuz ur biased!!" and the like) if I ever speak of any topic related to Size/Fat Acceptance. Then I remind them: "Ok. You hate fat people. I DON'T hate thin people, and I defend them, so you fail miserably at this ad hominem."  :bow:


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## ksandru

Zoom said:


> I think the author should come here and defend her statements if she wants us to treat her with any sort of respect. Calling FAs "gnomes" just because of a few bad examples really gets my goat. I ought to invade her garden wearing a red pointy hat!




I wish she would. I have a few choice words I would love to say to her!

She is what pisses me off most about former BBW's who lose lots of weight through WLS or any other way. They love to take pot shots at other BBW's/SSBBW's and talk about how "disgusting" they were before losing weight. Well, babe, you might have lost the weight, but you still have a ton of issues. How dare she! my husband is a proud and out FA who is committed to me for life. My being fat is a turn on, yes, but there are other things that turn him on as well. I guess the fat that I treat him like a king kinda helps. He treats me like a queen as well. We love & respect one another. Period.


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## Judge_Dre

That one line, "I'm still a mess, but a better-looking mess," just sickens me. That article was really uncomfortable to read, not just for its FA bashing, but for the pathetic and dismal attitude the writer kept projecting. I'm hoping a lot of angry letters arrive to the SF Weekly offices next week.

Stinky's Peep Show sounds like a real cool venue. A club that plays punk rock and has fat dancers, that just my kind of place!


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## Jasminium

Judge_Dre said:


> Stinky's Peep Show sounds like a real cool venue. A club that plays punk rock and has fat dancers, that just my kind of place!



It was awesome, it's not being held anymore though.


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## ekmanifest

This article makes me very sad.


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## gangstadawg

all i got to say is being normal is over rated and what really is normal any ways? who defines what normal is?

and FAs are wierd is not as bad as some of the other statments or stereotypes i have seen around the net about FAs. go to the link below and look for a poster called feczor

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OUzvmJUNQSY


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## Judge_Dre

I also really hate this excerpt:

"On the Internet I came across a guy who was conventionally handsome in his picture. He wasn't really the sort of man the thin me would go for — too square — but compared to all the other gnomes out there who liked superbig girls, he was a catch."

Jeez, don't do us any favors! Not only are we freaks, but we aren't good looking or cool enough for thin girls. Good thing self-loathing fat girls are willing to lower their standards to date us.


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## Green Eyed Fairy

Thought I better edit this before someone reads it and takes it seriously


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## goofy girl

It's kind of silly do debate this all...I think we can all agree that as Angus says "THERE IS NO NORMAL!!", and you can find "freaks" everywhere.


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## Ned Sonntag

goofy girl said:


> I totally agree. There are some wonderful, intelligent, kind FA's out there, however, they seem to be the minority. Or at least, as Lilly mentioned, they aren't as prominent.
> 
> Sadly, the article you quoted seems to describe almost every FA I ever knew. Most of the FA's that I have encountered make me feel used (for the belly, the boobs, the arm fat or whatever it is they are into) and not at all that they genuinely want to know me as a person. They feel that because they admire my body and "treat me like a Goddess" (code word for oral sex, I guess?) meant that I should be OK with them grabbing my fat and shaking it or using the back of my knee as a vagina. Ummmm yeah..NO.
> 
> No idea if any of this makes any sense (what else is new??), but..anyway, I don't think that just being an FA makes someone a freak, but there are definitely FA freaks out there-lots of them.


 I LOVE the backs of knees but I never made the vagina connection. I'll never look at that area in the same way again... proving to BBWs that I'm not a total wanker is a 'battle' that must be 'fought' over and over again and I'm actually not as smooth at it as I used to be in the 80s...


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## TheSadeianLinguist

Jay West Coast said:


> After reading this, I felt really strange. Is it true? Are we weirdoes? If this liberal ultra-accepting newspaper labels us as fetishistic bucketcases, maybe I've been thinking of this all wrong.
> 
> What are your experiences with FA's? Are they the wonderful intentions of creation made to appreciate fat women for the beautiful beings they are, or a collection of fellers who could use some counseling? Was this author's experience indicative, or unfortunate and off-base?
> 
> (And, yes, part of me is posting this to hear self-affirming points that FA's are not freaks.)



Oh, for fuck's sake. ALL people objectify. Men who like thin women? They objectify. Guess what? While out with a good friend who is male and likes thin women this afternoon, he was looking down my shirt when he thought I wasn't looking. And I am almost positive he's not an FA.

My experience with FA's is pretty much, "Wow, they're a lot like my brothers!"  Most of what I saw of Placebo and Slacker is that they're really cool, respectful dudes. Mini is learning.


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## Spanky

Can I add a little bit to this by asking about the whole "label" thing? FA. Fat Admirer. If I like the fat form and find it beautiful, does that mean that I only like that form?? Maybe I prefer that form? Does it mean I get lumped into the same group as guys who obsess and objectify the shape and size of a woman??

I hate labels. Not because they are bad, but that they end up being tatooed on so many that don't deserve it (good or bad). I only refer to women here as BBW because people here understand it. It too is a label. The women here are W-O-M-E-N, lovely women. Lovely shapes, brains, ideas, purposes, feelings, emotions, hair, eyes, butts, thoughts, humor, etc, etc. 

I know a few other men here have mentioned like me that the taste for the physical in women does not end at some weight or dress size. For some FAs it is only about the size. For some IT IS NOT. 

I began following Dims in 1992 because I could see larger female forms online. Not nudes, but just beautiful pictures of BBW (sorry for the label again) that we don't see in any print media of any kind. I can only glance at Lane Bryant ads for so long. 

As I began to engage a little more, I felt to be just another small voice out there for the BBWs visiting the site to support the "you are beautiful" and "you should feel beautiful no matter your size" ideas. Maybe I am just a little brick in the foundation, I am not a preacher nor an activist. I practice this IRL with my wife because it is the only true place I can make at least an everyday attempt to make one woman feel beautiful even if she is told she is not beautiful in the eyes of the media and much of the brutal world around her. I can only try, every day, in small ways to do this. It is up to her, and all the women who visit this board, to believe it. 

Thanks for bringing this up, Jay. If there is such a thing as an FA and that label was properly used, it would be you to represent, IMHO. :bow:


----------



## ClashCityRocker

SERIOUSLY. these stories always sound fabricated to me, but i dont doubt their credibility. SAD SAD SAD. anyways, im not a gnome...or a square. i think the problem lies as much w/this lady's attitude as much as the guy she's referring to. i dont think i can say anything else that hasnt been said already, so for anyone who post what i was thinking: I AGREE!


----------



## LillyBBBW

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Oh, for fuck's sake. ALL people objectify. Men who like thin women? They objectify. Guess what? While out with a good friend who is male and likes thin women this afternoon, he was looking down my shirt when he thought I wasn't looking. And I am almost positive he's not an FA.
> 
> My experience with FA's is pretty much, "Wow, they're a lot like my brothers!"  Most of what I saw of Placebo and Slacker is that they're really cool, respectful dudes. Mini is learning.



ROFL!!  Big story: men objectify. Ask any woman who has ever walked past a construction site or sat alone at a bar. Ask them if the men who approach them remove their hats and say please and thank you. Psh! The guy that woman was talking about would be a freak no matter who he's attracted to. Gay men have to stare down freaks and losers too. They're everywhere. 

IMO, the whole thing is exacerbated for FA's because there aren't enough normal ones seen in real life other than on web boards. The ONLY visible representatives seen are the flamboyant drunken ones being kicked out of BBW parties all across the universe. Out and proud just isn't as common in real life as it is here on this board. When you finally see one you wish you'd never wished. In the mainstream there are enough examples of normal guys all around to rest in the security of knowing the freaks are the exception and not the rule.


----------



## CleverBomb

liz (di-va) said:


> Last time I checked the internet was a fine way to meet weirdos, period.



Could we get Chief to post that on the chat log-in page? kthx.

-Rusty
(who is kinda weird his own self, come to think of it...)


----------



## k1009

Disclaimer: I've never met an actual FA, let alone had one shag my elbow fat. 

I don't think FAs are all creepy weirdos but given that this is a subculture which does much of its interaction online, it should be expected that the proportion of creepy weirdos involved would be quite high. I think a lot of FA activity borders on fetish too (fetish as in the proper use of the word, not glam emo kind), particularly the obsession some men have with bellies or with certain shapes. Sure, there are guys into thin girls who are exclusively leg or breast men, but very few to the point that I see with FAs and their love of [insert body part/shape here].

Then there are the things you can do with a fat girl that can't be done with a thin one. Not that I'm not embracing my fat but... I don't want to do these things! And I'm sure I'm not alone. I just want a nice bloke who wants to ____ me and doesn't want to bukkake my rolls, you know? 

I understand where this woman is coming from. Sometimes you just want to be like everyone else, even if being an individual is super fantastic and unique.


----------



## waldo

AnnMarie said:


> I can't answer this again - but you'll get plenty of "yes, you're freaks" responses, Jay. Hope you're ready for them.
> 
> The FAs I've known, loved, dated, etc... not freaks. Good men who find something "unconventional" to be attractive and desireable.* I don't consider the rude/tactless/pure fetish cases FAs at all... so that's not part of my experience with "effays". *
> Freaks to a woman like that because she hated herself and all her fat represents - hard not to see a freak in someone who likes all you loathe.



This point bears repeating - it is inappropriate to use the term FA for such individuals because in order to admire someone you also must RESPECT them. It seems the FA term is used here as a blanket term for all guys who are attracted to fat women because it is short and convenient to use. The woman who wrote the article used the term 'chubby chaser' which I feel more accurately describes the less scrupulous among us. I feel bad for any young and insecure FAs who may read that article (or others like it) and have their fragile self-image further compromised because they are not plugged in to a resource like Dimensions that can offer some reassurance that they are not 'freaks'.


----------



## k1009

waldo said:


> This point bears repeating - it is inappropriate to use the term FA for such individuals because in order to admire someone you also must RESPECT them. It seems the FA term is used here as a blanket term for all guys who are attracted to fat women because it is short and convenient to use. The woman who wrote the article used the term 'chubby chaser' which I feel more accurately describes the less scrupulous among us. I feel bad for any young and insecure FAs who may read that article (or others like it) and have their fragile self-image further compromised because they are not plugged in to a resource like Dimensions that can offer some reassurance that they are not 'freaks'.



I've heard being an FA compared to being gay. That it's who you are, not who you choose to be. And chubby chaser is used endearingly amongst the gay community so it might be a bit off to refer to the blokes we don't want in that way. 

Reminds me of a discussion I followed on a alt.twuedomsandslaves once, twice, ten million times. 

"he's not a real dom"
"yes he is"
"he isn't because I say he isn't"
"blow me"


----------



## AnnMarie

k1009 said:


> Disclaimer: I've never met an actual FA, let alone had one shag my elbow fat.
> 
> I don't think FAs are all creepy weirdos but given that this is a subculture which does much of its interaction online, it should be expected that the proportion of creepy weirdos involved would be quite high. I think a lot of FA activity borders on fetish too (fetish as in the proper use of the word, not glam emo kind), particularly the obsession some men have with bellies or with certain shapes. Sure, there are guys into thin girls who are exclusively leg or breast men, but very few to the point that I see with FAs and their love of [insert body part/shape here].
> 
> Then there are the things you can do with a fat girl that can't be done with a thin one. Not that I'm not embracing my fat but... I don't want to do these things! And I'm sure I'm not alone. I just want a nice bloke who wants to ____ me and doesn't want to bukkake my rolls, you know?
> 
> I understand where this woman is coming from. Sometimes you just want to be like everyone else, even if being an individual is super fantastic and unique.



There are so many presumptuous, grand characterizations in your post that I can't even begin to dissect it. 

I'll leave it at this, I'm offended for all the great guys I know who love and respect fat women, who choose to partner with them, and who have just been lumped in with what you clearly perceive as their counterparts. 

I think it's sad, dismissive, and completely rude. I can't decide if I hope you meet a great, normal, adjusted FA immediately - or never, so that he never has to be subjected to your assumptions about his motives or desires. 

Also, it's insulting to all the women here who've dated, met, married, enjoyed, befriended some wonderful guys who you're painting with a very broad brush. 

It takes a lot to get me ruffled around here, pretty much anyone can attest, but man that got under my skin.


----------



## fatboy1004

k1009, I've shortened and clarified your post, for the benefit of all. It makes a lot more sense now.



k1009 said:


> Disclaimer: I've never met an actual FA.


----------



## k1009

AnnMarie said:


> There are so many presumptuous, grand characterizations in your post that I can't even begin to dissect it.
> 
> I'll leave it at this, I'm offended for all the great guys I know who love and respect fat women, who choose to partner with them, and who have just been lumped in with what you clearly perceive as their counterparts.
> 
> I think it's sad, dismissive, and completely rude. I can't decide if I hope you meet a great, normal, adjusted FA immediately - or never, so that he never has to be subjected to your assumptions about his motives or desires.
> 
> Also, it's insulting to all the women here who've dated, met, married, enjoyed, befriended some wonderful guys who you're painting with a very broad brush.
> 
> It takes a lot to get me ruffled around here, pretty much anyone can attest, but man that got under my skin.



Twice in two days, I'm good.

I suppose if I were to reword the post I'd not use fetish to describe the feelings of a lot of FAs. Not only is it technically incorrect, but it's also a very loaded word. Tends to evoke images of men hiding in the bushes with binoculars and a drooling leer. Not very comforting. 

I'm not dismissing the preferences, or characters of FAs. I don't think there's anything wrong with being into a woman's bellyhang, or preferring a pear shaped woman to any other. It's struck me, though, that a lot of FA activity is centred around certain parts of a woman's body or what she can do with her bulk, almost exclusively. Again, this isn't a bad thing. My point is that for some of us... I don't know how many, maybe the author and I are in a very small club, it just doesn't work. 

My aspirations? I'm pretty sure I don't want an FA. I've seen the way guys who used to want my thin body treat me now and it doesn't make me feel too great about men whose preferences run to one particular body type. Obviously this leaves a very small pool of men I'd want and even smaller number of men who'd want me. And no, I'm not sure how that's actually going to play out. Maybe I'll lose weight and decide those thin kate-loving guys were ok after all. Maybe I'll gain and..... move to America. Who knows?


----------



## k1009

fatboy1004 said:


> k1009, I've shortened and clarified your post, for the benefit of all. It makes a lot more sense now.



Thanks for being so presumptuous! :kiss2:


----------



## bmann0413

Sure does make me feel bad, because I always considered myself a respectable FA. I don't really think of big women as sex objects, just women who I think are beautiful and don't get enough credit for being beautiful in this world who is so obsessed with getting everyone to be the same size.

But I guess I'm just a horny weirdo who doesn't give a damn about how women should be treated...


----------



## Jon Blaze

bmann0413 said:


> Sure does make me feel bad, because I always considered myself a respectable FA. I don't really think of big women as sex objects, just women who I think are beautiful and don't get enough credit for being beautiful in this world who is so obsessed with getting everyone to be the same size.
> 
> But I guess I'm just a horny weirdo who doesn't give a damn about how women should be treated...



No. You're being prejudged by someone that thinks you're a horny weirdo. It's not you: It's her inability to learn the difference between a personality trait, and the variation of a personality trait. Now let's start telling all the gay people there's no such thing as a masculine gay! I'm sure they'd love to hear that from a straight ally.


----------



## gangstadawg

Jon Blaze said:


> No. You're being prejudged by someone that thinks you're a horny weirdo. It's not you: It's her inability to learn the difference between a personality trait, and the variation of a personality trait. Now let's start telling all the gay people there's no such thing as a masculine gay! I'm sure they'd love to hear that from a straight ally.




we all know thats not true. remember omar from the HBO series the wire?


----------



## Jon Blaze

gangstadawg said:


> we all know thats not true. remember omar from the HBO series the wire?



Sorry. Twas sarcasm if you didn't catch it, but I'm getting sick and tired of these people attacking the groups they move away from (Or giving baseless advice). It's racking my brain today. I just want to tie strings around them, and sing "Societal Marionetteeeeeeeeee" over, and over again.


----------



## Dr. P Marshall

k1009 said:


> Twice in two days, I'm good.
> 
> I suppose if I were to reword the post I'd not use fetish to describe the feelings of a lot of FAs. Not only is it technically incorrect, but it's also a very loaded word. Tends to evoke images of men hiding in the bushes with binoculars and a drooling leer. Not very comforting.
> 
> I'm not dismissing the preferences, or characters of FAs. I don't think there's anything wrong with being into a woman's bellyhang, or preferring a pear shaped woman to any other. It's struck me, though, that a lot of FA activity is centred around certain parts of a woman's body or what she can do with her bulk, almost exclusively. Again, this isn't a bad thing. My point is that for some of us... I don't know how many, maybe the author and I are in a very small club, it just doesn't work.
> 
> My aspirations? I'm pretty sure I don't want an FA. I've seen the way guys who used to want my thin body treat me now and it doesn't make me feel too great about men whose preferences run to one particular body type. Obviously this leaves a very small pool of men I'd want and even smaller number of men who'd want me. And no, I'm not sure how that's actually going to play out. Maybe I'll lose weight and decide those thin kate-loving guys were ok after all. Maybe I'll gain and..... move to America. Who knows?




OK. A non-BBW FFA here, and although this thread is, perhaps, not intended for me I will preface this by saying that one of the things I have noticed since coming to Dimensions is how often I sympathize with or agree with/understand my non-BHM/FA counterparts. I will also add that I am writing this to specifically address the line about not wanting to meet an FA. I am not denying there are creeps in every community. I just don't like the idea of lumping all FAs together.

First of all, to assume that there is something wrong with a person just because they have a physical preference in a partner and choose to pursue relationships with a person who meets those preferences is ridiculous. Everyone who walks into any room will see people they find attractive and people they don't. It might be a look, a way of dressing, a hair color, etc. That doesn't automatically mean that they can't see the other person as anything other than an object just because it was something physical that brought him/her to their attention. 

Also, obviously if you are attracted to a fat person, you are going to find all the things that make their body different part of the attraction. If a woman was into weight lifters and she liked it every time her boyfriend picked her up and threw her over his shoulder, does that mean she loves only the biceps and not the man? Now I'm not saying that makes it OK for an FA or FFA to just objectify someone completely and declare their desire to get intimate with someone's fat folds on the first date, but it shouldn't be harshly judged if a man who loves fat women wants to admire her body as well. AS WELL being the operative phrase. If a man loves you and your body great, if he sees you as a walking set of breasts or anything else, then yes, obviously there's a problem. But the problem would not be that he likes breasts, or BBW or anything else. The problem is he doesn't see women as people. Being an FA has nothing to do with it.

Are there jerks who also happen to be FAs? Of course. Are there jerks who also happen to be athletes, sailors, writers, bankers, etc. Of course. Would a bad experience with one banker mean that they all had a problem? Come on, you know that's not true. Each of these assumptions used with a different group of men sounds exactly as what they are, silly. The problem for FAs is that it is too easy to throw the entire package together because the label that identifies them takes into account their sexuality as well. I think that is why so much gay terminology (like being "closeted") gets used. People automatically think that they know a lot about a man because he finds BBW attractive, when the truth is all they know is that he finds BBW attractive.

*I am not saying the term closeted should not be used. It was just the first "crossover" term that came to mind.


----------



## James

Jay West Coast said:


> After reading this, I felt really strange. Is it true? Are we weirdoes?



I think its understandable when FAs are seen as weirdoes by women who have a non-existent or narrow frame of reference for FAs. Some of these women will enjoy the 'different' attention and others will inevitably be repulsed by the idea. I have personally experienced both scenarios in the past.

It seems to me that believing in their attractiveness goes against the media-reinforced core programming of pretty much the majority of women anyways? Paying women compliments over any aspects of their appearance (that they've been conditioned to hate about themselves) often results in "zzz.... does not compute error messages. 

But of course it isn't the response of a woman that defines the virtues of the FA. Liking fat is, after all, nothing more than an aesthetic... A component part of ones overall make-up but not an all-defining one. In the long term we ought to be judged by women upon the sum of our actions (not on whether we prefer blond/brunette hair or x pounds/ y pounds or whatever?) just like any other men do


----------



## goofy girl

bmann0413 said:


> Sure does make me feel bad, because I always considered myself a respectable FA. I don't really think of big women as sex objects, just women who I think are beautiful and don't get enough credit for being beautiful in this world who is so obsessed with getting everyone to be the same size.
> 
> But I guess I'm just a horny weirdo who doesn't give a damn about how women should be treated...





Jon Blaze said:


> No. You're being prejudged by someone that thinks you're a horny weirdo. It's not you: It's her inability to learn the difference between a personality trait, and the variation of a personality trait. Now let's start telling all the gay people there's no such thing as a masculine gay! I'm sure they'd love to hear that from a straight ally.



Ok, see. I don't agree with this. I think most bbw's can tell you at some point they have met an FA that had a few screws loose, however..personally, even after ALL THE NUMEROUS loose screw FA's I met, I STILL continued to meet them, *hope* to meet them, and *assume they were decent people until they proved otherwise.* I don't think anyone (within the fat community) would think "OMG he's an FA?!? What a freak!!" Don't you realize that generally bbw's hope to find a really great FA that they get along with!!! Seriously!!!


----------



## furious styles

i'm a squarish gnome


----------



## love dubh

mfdoom said:


> i'm a squarish gnome



Are you a 4, a 9, or 16? Anything beyond that, and well, we can't help you here.


----------



## LillyBBBW

goofy girl said:


> Ok, see. I don't agree with this. I think most bbw's can tell you at some point they have met an FA that had a few screws loose, however..personally, even after ALL THE NUMEROUS loose screw FA's I met, I STILL continued to meet them, *hope* to meet them, and *assume they were decent people until they proved otherwise.* I don't think anyone (within the fat community) would think "OMG he's an FA?!? What a freak!!" Don't you realize that generally bbw's hope to find a really great FA that they get along with!!! Seriously!!!



I hate to say it folks but I agree with goofy girl here. Putting aside all the fat girls that hang out here and know what we know, it is arrogant to expect people to assume that you -- a normal well adjusted FA -- exist. People are only aware of evidence that can be seen and witnessed. When half the normal FA's are in the closet and the other half are indignantly hemming and hawing about being tagged with a label people are left to judge soley on the evidence and the evidence paints a very grim picture. Pervy Peter is front and center. Nobody is going to naturally assume in your favor because it is 'logical' to do so. The logical thing to do is deal with what's in front of you. People assume FA's are freaks for a reason more compelling than, "They should just use their heads to conjure the truth."

EDIT: And K1009 you HAVE met FA's and plenty of them, trust me. You just didn't know it.


----------



## LoveBHMS

> ROFL!! Big story: men objectify. Ask any woman who has ever walked past a construction site or sat alone at a bar. Ask them if the men who approach them remove their hats and say please and thank you. Psh! The guy that woman was talking about would be a freak no matter who he's attracted to. Gay men have to stare down freaks and losers too. They're everywhere.



Lilly, this is absolutely true. But a big part of this is situational. Most women have been shouted out from construction sites, but nobody really expects a guy to leap off a girder and come down and open a door for you. It's an objectifying situation, it part because there is some distance/anonymity between "construction worker" and "woman walking by." I'm sure if you met that same construction worker in a social situation like at a party or sporting event or through work that he's not going to just say "Hi. Man, you have big tits."

By the same token, I think any situation in which a guy is seeking out a woman based on her looks is going to be fertile ground for that sort of behaviour. He may even think "well, she's here (on this website or at this BBW Bash) because she's putting her fat front and center, so it's ok for me to focus on it."

I think that is where Kate was going with her comments. I don't think she meant that just because a man likes fat girls, it means he is or is not a creep. I think she meant more that when you make a woman's size and the man's sexual attraction to that size the central point of an encounter, there might be problems and miscommunication.


----------



## Jon Blaze

goofy girl said:


> Ok, see. I don't agree with this. I think most bbw's can tell you at some point they have met an FA that had a few screws loose, however..personally, even after ALL THE NUMEROUS loose screw FA's I met, I STILL continued to meet them, *hope* to meet them, and *assume they were decent people until they proved otherwise.* I don't think anyone (within the fat community) would think "OMG he's an FA?!? What a freak!!" Don't you realize that generally bbw's hope to find a really great FA that they get along with!!! Seriously!!!



I'm mad at her because she's trying to use one experience with a bad apple in an attempt to attack an entire personality trait. That's what I have a problem with. I could care less about the subject, and whether or not it related to me. If she started doing this with thin people, fat people, gays, christians, jews, minorities, whatever: I would respond *exactly* the same. It's all fine and dandy that she had a bad experience with him (No foul there: I don't even wish for us to have any sort of pedestal either), but to use one experience as a way to judge an entire group of people is wrong any way you slice it. I'd even be the same way if she said "ZOMG FAS ARE GODSENDS!!! THEY'RE PERFECT!" I would think "No. We're humans. There's good and bad." 

The subject matter has nothing to do with it: It's the response that matters. She seems to think the size is supposed to be vocal point, but she's not realizing the diversity that goes with it: It's the huge area between toleration and fetishism.


----------



## TallFatSue

LillyBBBW said:


> 'fraid so Jay. Some of you FA's are total pervs lacking in the social restraints the good Lord gave to the common mutt. Meeting one off the bat can be traumatizing enough to make you hit anyone who calls you beautiful as hard as you can and then run away. These circus freaks give the rest of you a bad name and unfortunatley they seem to be the ones who do most of the talking, social restraint not being one of their strong points.


My impression in half-a-century of living is that most FA's are fine decent men, with a subgroup who are merely clueless on how to deal with fat women. There are also a minority of pervs, who I don't think are very numerous but they sure are visible and memorable. Be that as it may, FA's sure don't have the corner on pervs by any means, so no cause to single them out. 

One prominent example: Those ever-famous foot fetishists who go gaga when they learn that I am a 6ft tall woman with size 13 feet. One esoteric example: I get the hiccups 2 or 3 times a day for maybe 10 or 15 minutes at a time, and I participate in a chronic hiccup forum. From time to time I get private messages and e-mails from men who get major jollies from watching or hearing women hiccup, and some are verrrry persistent asking me to record my hiccups for them. I kid you not! Believe you me, pervs turn up just about everywhere, but we need not be unduly concerned. (My husband loves my hiccups, but he has special dispensation. :smitten: Or is it because he says they're the only thing that can interrupt me when I'm talking?  )


----------



## Blondzilla

This is a great thread and discussion, I have enjoyed reading everyones views on this and lately I have actually been having some of the same thoughts and feelings twords some so-called FA's in the last couple of months here.

There is a bigass major difference between an FA and a FatFetishest..Of course there are FA's who are just into, attracted to and down for Fat chicks, and thats cool and all ((wish I could find them)) there are some good ones and bad ones as well, thats just a human thing.

With that said, my personal experince with the fatfetishests 'pretending/portraying' themselves to be FA's has really been a major turn off and has brought me much annoyance and disgust. ((Not trying to start a fight or argument here..I know everybody ain't the same)) I just feel like the guys who get off on just fatness alone are kinda creepy and screwy in the head and are not what *I* am interested in at all! ((but to each his own :blink: I am extremley openminded and don't care what other's do or want.. its just been hard to convey that recently to far too many beligerant FA poser/imposter's)) Its the actual 'fat fetish' I don't care for for myself, I have plenty of fetishes and want a man I am with to have'em too.. its just I have always been with guys who dig on fat chicks and its been good and normal but never had a major sexual focused aspect regaurding my fat. 

I am happy, fat, proud, secure and confident with myself these days and I accept my fatness in all its glory, I don't have the self conciousness or feel bad about my fatness and think guys who might focus on it a bit are not good enough..I kind of want someone who wants me because I am fat and also despite it ((I know its not a perfect world though lol)) Like I say, there is a difference between someone wanting you as a woman/person they are attracted to and someone who focuses only on the fatness itself and just on how fat you are or can be and how they want to bang it or feed it. ((I agree with what goofygirl said about that kinda thing))
Its like it has nothing to do with anything but that and they end up coming off as pervey imbeciles, and again, that could be said for lots of types as well.
I must stress I am just speaking on what I like/feel/dig on from a personal level.

So Jay, NO.. *I* do not think you are all freaks my dear or all humans in general for that matter! 

I think..eh actually.. I *know* that in all categories of everything you have to weed out the good from the bad.. we all have different experinces and feelings about all things..

I know I probabley repeated my own self here a couple of times and also what others have said in this thread..I also don't mean to offend anyone of the normal peeps with healthier fat fetishes. :doh:

Did I contradict myself here? lol oi...


----------



## Jon Blaze

Blondzilla said:


> This is a great thread and discussion, I have enjoyed reading everyones views on this and lately I have actually been having some of the same thoughts and feelings twords some so-called FA's in the last couple of months here.
> 
> There is a bigass major difference between an FA and a FatFetishest..Of course there are FA's who are just into, attracted to and down for Fat chicks, and thats cool and all ((wish I could find them)) there are some good ones and bad ones as well, thats just a human thing.
> 
> With that said, my personal experince with the fatfetishests 'pretending/portraying' themselves to be FA's has really been a major turn off and has brought me much annoyance and disgust. ((Not trying to start a fight or argument here..I know everybody ain't the same)) I just feel like the guys who get off on just fatness alone are kinda creepy and screwy in the head and are not what *I* am interested in at all! ((but to each his own :blink: I am extremley openminded and don't care what other's do or want.. its just been hard to convey that recently to far too many beligerant FA poser/imposter's)) Its the actual 'fat fetish' I don't care for for myself, I have plenty of fetishes and want a man I am with to have'em too.. its just I have always been with guys who dig on fat chicks and its been good and normal but never had a major sexual focused aspect regaurding my fat.
> 
> I am happy, fat, proud, secure and confident with myself these days and I accept my fatness in all its glory, I don't have the self conciousness or feel bad about my fatness and think guys who might focus on it a bit are not good enough..I kind of want someone who wants me because I am fat and also despite it ((I know its not a perfect world though lol)) Like I say, there is a difference between someone wanting you as a woman/person they are attracted to and someone who focuses only on the fatness itself and just on how fat you are or can be and how they want to bang it or feed it. ((I agree with what goofygirl said about that kinda thing))
> Its like it has nothing to do with anything but that and they end up coming off as pervey imbeciles, and again, that could be said for lots of types as well.
> I must stress I am just speaking on what I like/feel/dig on from a personal level.
> 
> So Jay, NO.. *I* do not think you are all freaks my dear or all humans in general for that matter!
> 
> I think..eh actually.. I *know* that in all categories of everything you have to weed out the good from the bad.. we all have different experinces and feelings about all things..
> 
> I know I probabley repeated my own self here a couple of times and also what others have said in this thread..I also don't mean to offend anyone of the normal peeps with healthier fat fetishes. :doh:
> 
> Did I contradict myself here? lol oi...




This is what I'm talking about.  HAI!!  :bow:
Great post.


----------



## TraciJo67

k1009 said:


> Twice in two days, I'm good.
> 
> I suppose if I were to reword the post I'd not use fetish to describe the feelings of a lot of FAs. Not only is it technically incorrect, but it's also a very loaded word. Tends to evoke images of men hiding in the bushes with binoculars and a drooling leer. Not very comforting.
> 
> I'm not dismissing the preferences, or characters of FAs. I don't think there's anything wrong with being into a woman's bellyhang, or preferring a pear shaped woman to any other. *It's struck me, though, that a lot of FA activity is centred around certain parts of a woman's body or what she can do with her bulk, almost exclusively. Again, this isn't a bad thing. My point is that for some of us... I don't know how many, maybe the author and I are in a very small club, it just doesn't work*.
> 
> My aspirations? I'm pretty sure I don't want an FA. I've seen the way guys who used to want my thin body treat me now and it doesn't make me feel too great about men whose preferences run to one particular body type. Obviously this leaves a very small pool of men I'd want and even smaller number of men who'd want me. And no, I'm not sure how that's actually going to play out. Maybe I'll lose weight and decide those thin kate-loving guys were ok after all. Maybe I'll gain and..... move to America. Who knows?



I'm with you on this point, Kate. I'm not sure how to word this without it seeming as if I'm painting all FA's with a broad brush; that is not my intention at all. But the part that I've highlighted above? It doesn't work for me either ... although I will also admit that part of the reason that it doesn't is because I wasn't OK with being fat. I hated my gigantic boobs, big stomach, chunky thighs; how could I be OK with someone else 'worshipping' them? Then again, I like my legs, my lips & my eyes ... and I'd be just as concerned at the idea of someone *exclusively* being attracted to those parts of my body as well ... the key being, that certain parts of my body feeding into someone's fetish. That's just me ... I understand and respect that there are many happy, well-adjusted people who do not feel as I do. And I understand that FA does not equal fetishist ... I'm addressing only the small percentage that does tend to objectify fat women. 

I didn't take your comments to be a sweeping condemnation of all FA's. I read it as, some aspects of FA preferences are just not your thing. You want a man to see *you*, not your fat rolls. Of course, fat or thin, most potential suitors are going to judge you based on how attractive they find you before they focus on who you are. My husband likes curvy women, but not exclusively ... I would categorize it as more of a preference (I catch him sizing up the Barbie-ish coeds far too often to think otherwise). To me, being with a man with very narrowly-defined preferences would be problematic on many levels, not the least of which would be where am *I* in that equation? And what if I get sick and can't maintain my weight, or just want to lose a few pounds? I suppose I'd just be one of those silent, unheard from women whose husband patronizes sites like Dimensions and bemoans to any attractive fat woman who will listen that his wife just doesn't "understand" him anymore. That would be my fear, anyway.


----------



## LillyBBBW

The woman was asked to speak on her own behalf, not yours. The bottom line is her experiences were unpleasant. What is she supposed to do, lie? Assume her experiences are psaltry formalities and unrealistic? Possibly the woman added flair to her stories to keep the audience entertained but she has gotten the message across that her expereinces were disturbing enough to force her to make a change. She told what she knew. You want to offer a rebuttal fine but don't judge her for telling her story. It's what happened to her. When it's your turn to tell your story no one expects you to include the things that you don't know anything about.




Jon Blaze said:


> I'm mad at her because she's trying to use one experience with a bad apple in an attempt to attack an entire personality trait. That's what I have a problem with. I could care less about the subject, and whether or not it related to me. If she started doing this with thin people, fat people, gays, christians, jews, minorities, whatever: I would respond *exactly* the same. It's all fine and dandy that she had a bad experience with him (No foul there: I don't even wish for us to have any sort of pedestal either), but to use one experience as a way to judge an entire group of people is wrong any way you slice it. I'd even be the same way if she said "ZOMG FAS ARE GODSENDS!!! THEY'RE PERFECT!" I would think "No. We're humans. There's good and bad."
> 
> The subject matter has nothing to do with it: It's the response that matters. She seems to think the size is supposed to be vocal point, but she's not realizing the diversity that goes with it: It's the huge area between toleration and fetishism.


----------



## RedVelvet

Sweet Tooth said:


> Seems that, if you have a couple of people whose primary initial source of connection is one of their bodies, you're going to have some level of objectification. Some people just take it obnoxiously far, as if you're there for their use until they're done with you, as if you have no basic rights or feelings of your own. And it seems that the internet brings out these latent tendencies in people who might otherwise at least *try* to be respectful in person.
> 
> Bothers me, but I realize it's going to be the same in other ways for other groups of people. If the person has a fundamental disrespect, it won't matter whether they're attracted to fat women or people of a certain color or whatever it may be. They'll objectify the target of the moment.
> 
> I've seen some FAs be pretty pathetic, but I've seen that in non-FAs too.




Was going to say something...but this fine person said it better than I could have.

so......yes....what she said...exactly.



Also....I gotta say .....my experience with FAs has been universally positive.......until....well.....I came here.

I had to come to Dims to see the truly objectifying, creepy stuff.

I hate to say that about a place that has become very important to me....but HERE is where I have seen things that made me, someone who pretty much likes herself more than she should even....question my size.

bummer, that.

Dims is still of extreme value to me, but ....thats the truth.


----------



## Jes

LillyBBBW said:


> I hate to say it folks but I agree with goofy girl here. Putting aside all the fat girls that hang out here and know what we know, it is arrogant to expect people to assume that you -- a normal well adjusted FA -- exist. People are only aware of evidence that can be seen and witnessed. When half the normal FA's are in the closet and the other half are indignantly hemming and hawing about being tagged with a label people are left to judge soley on the evidence and the evidence paints a very grim picture. Pervy Peter is front and center. Nobody is going to naturally assume in your favor because it is 'logical' to do so. The logical thing to do is deal with what's in front of you. People assume FA's are freaks for a reason more compelling than, "They should just use their heads to conjure the truth."
> 
> EDIT: And K1009 you HAVE met FA's and plenty of them, trust me. You just didn't know it.


My take on this woman's article is that it described her experience truthfully for hte most part. Who are we to say that her experience wasn't her experience?

I don't think all FAs are crazy or disgusting or anything else. I will say that those I've come across in my life, certainly those who self identified as FA, wanted me to break chairs, gain more weight, and feel lucky that they were talking to me at all (while they were telling me to gain more weight and break chairs). How many asked me about who I am as a person? Now compare that to how many who asked me 'how much do you weight?' and then expressed genuine disappointment when I didn't say 400 lbs, even though they lived on the opposite side of the country/world and weren't going to be seeing me, meeting me or even typing to me again, so what the hell did it really matter anyway? 

Do I think every guy into fat women is like this? No. But can I point to more guys who are what I'd prefer than the guys described in the paragraph above? No. Not in terms of who I've met in my own life. My experience may not be representative, but it's certainly my experience.

I have this gut feeling that by a time a guy learns about he term 'FA' and the communities that have sprung up around that, he's already been steeped in the often-very-fetishy world of fat stuff. Maybe he's hidden this about himself for a long time, or even not had much (or any) sexual or social interaction. And maybe, the 40 year old virgins I've come into contact with here (and in my experience, there are a lot of them--including men who have been sexually active, but never with a fat woman), have a very unrealistic sense of what sex is, because that sense has been developed in a vacuum. Maybe they've read a lot of posts from women who talk about all things fat, and loving it, and wanting to eat another pie, and playing fast and loose and silly with little piggie outfits and lingerie, and perhaps they take this as representative of all fat women and their interests. And why wouldn't they--it's right there in black and white (and color). Pages and pages and pages of women saying those things are their biggest turn ons. ANd who am I to say that's not true? It might well be. But it's certainly not true for us all. But a man desperate to believe he's found a kindred soul may not be able, or willing, to make that distinction. Sometimes, people who have developed their sexual identities around sometimes-fetishistic places can end up stunted and dysfunctional. I'm guessing that's what women who want guys who like fat women but don't necessarily describe themselves as FAs and who know all of the other terminology in the Dims world, are responding to. And I'm guessing that's the stunted, dysfunctional world that the author of this article came up flush against, as well. You might not like her choices, you might not like her writing style, you might not like some of her judgements or pronouncements, but you can't fault someone for bristling at being met with stunted and dysfunctional men. You can't blame anyone for bristling at that!


----------



## Jon Blaze

LillyBBBW said:


> The woman was asked to speak on her own behalf, not yours. The bottom line is her experiences were unpleasant. What is she supposed to do, lie? Assume her experiences are psaltry formalities and unrealistic?



I said that her indicating that she had a bad experience is perfectly fine. Everyone has that right.

As for the ending: She shouldn't believe it's either extreme, because it's a trait. Hence why I used my examples of a variety of topics where I would have responded the same. I don't doubt there are good and bad, but to say having such a trait is automatically a form of objectification, when you have experience with one man, whose variation of the trait is under scrutiny from people in the movement is wrong. Not to mention the fact that she _may _not even question herself now in that she thinks men that exclusively date thin women are guilty of objectification too. 



LillyBBBW said:


> Possibly the woman added flair to her stories to keep the audience entertained but she has gotten the message across that her expereinces were disturbing enough to force her to make a change. She told what she knew.



Her experiences being bad are still no foul at all. Again, I don't have a problem with the fact that she's saying that, but I do have a problem with her using her experiences as factual information for a group of human beings. 




LillyBBBW said:


> You want to offer a rebuttal fine but don't judge her for telling her story. It's what happened to her. When it's your turn to tell your story no one expects you to include the things that you don't know anything about.



It's not about the story: It's how it was told, and what conclusions are being made from the situation.

I've noticed that many people whom lose weight end up becoming almost evangelical about it. They perjure, and demean the group they move away from. I've seen that in many cases when it comes to people that are gaining weight too. Would you rather me tell my story by saying "If you lose weight, I know you're going to become evangelical," or "I rarely have anything against weight loss/gain, but if you perjure the group you move away from: I don't think I can respect you?"


----------



## LillyBBBW

Jon Blaze said:


> I said that her indicating that she had a bad experience is perfectly fine. Everyone has that right.
> 
> As for the ending: She shouldn't believe it's either extreme, because it's a trait. Hence why I used my examples of a variety of topics where I would have responded the same. I don't doubt there are good and bad, but to say having such a trait is automatically a form of objectification, when you have experience with one man, whose variation of the trait is under scrutiny from people in the movement is wrong. Not to mention the fact that she _may _not even question herself now in that she thinks men that exclusively date thin women are guilty of objectification too.
> 
> 
> 
> Her experiences being bad are still no foul at all. Again, I don't have a problem with the fact that she's saying that, but I do have a problem with her using her experiences as factual information for a group of human beings.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's not about the story: It's how it was told, and what conclusions are being made from the situation.
> 
> I've noticed that many people whom lose weight end up becoming almost evangelical about it. They perjure, and demean the group they move away from. I've seen that in many cases when it comes to people that are gaining weight too. Would you rather me tell my story by saying "If you lose weight, I know you're going to become evangelical," or "I rarely have anything against weight loss/gain, but if you perjure the group you move away from: I don't think I can respect you?"



When I was a child I told everybody that I got my red corduroys from Santa Clause. I did not get my pants from Santa Clause but if you asked me where I got them, I would assert that St. Nicholas came by in the night and left them under the tree. Who is going to fault me for asserting only what I knew to be true? Eventually it dawned on me that I had never seen Santa Clause. I mentioned that I doubted Santa existed and my mom was furious. A whole slew of people told me that Santa was there yet I'd never seen him. How much longer is someone supposed to go on believing in something they've never seen?

Hit the 'SUBMIT' button too soon. I don't fault you for finding the article upsetting and trying to correct an improper image but being angry at the author is futile.


----------



## k1009

TraciJo67 said:


> I'm with you on this point, Kate. I'm not sure how to word this without it seeming as if I'm painting all FA's with a broad brush; that is not my intention at all. But the part that I've highlighted above? It doesn't work for me either ... although I will also admit that part of the reason that it doesn't is because I wasn't OK with being fat. I hated my gigantic boobs, big stomach, chunky thighs; how could I be OK with someone else 'worshipping' them? Then again, I like my legs, my lips & my eyes ... and I'd be just as concerned at the idea of someone *exclusively* being attracted to those parts of my body as well ... the key being, that certain parts of my body feeding into someone's fetish. That's just me ... I understand and respect that there are many happy, well-adjusted people who do not feel as I do. And I understand that FA does not equal fetishist ... I'm addressing only the small percentage that does tend to objectify fat women.
> 
> I didn't take your comments to be a sweeping condemnation of all FA's. I read it as, some aspects of FA preferences are just not your thing. You want a man to see *you*, not your fat rolls. Of course, fat or thin, most potential suitors are going to judge you based on how attractive they find you before they focus on who you are. My husband likes curvy women, but not exclusively ... I would categorize it as more of a preference (I catch him sizing up the Barbie-ish coeds far too often to think otherwise). To me, being with a man with very narrowly-defined preferences would be problematic on many levels, not the least of which would be where am *I* in that equation? And what if I get sick and can't maintain my weight, or just want to lose a few pounds? I suppose I'd just be one of those silent, unheard from women whose husband patronizes sites like Dimensions and bemoans to any attractive fat woman who will listen that his wife just doesn't "understand" him anymore. That would be my fear, anyway.



:wubu: Traci. You put it so much more tactfully than I did, but, we all know how hard I fail when it comes to tact. This discussion has totally got me thinking, but I'm a wee bit trashed so I'll save my intellekshul moosings for tomorrow.


----------



## Jon Blaze

LillyBBBW said:


> When I was a child I told everybody that I got my red corduroys from Santa Clause. I did not get my pants from Santa Clause but if you asked me where I got them, I would assert that St. Nicholas came by in the night and left them under the tree. Who is going to fault me for asserting only what I knew to be true? Eventually it dawned on me that I had never seen Santa Clause. I mentioned that I doubted Santa existed and my mom was furious. A whole slew of people told me that Santa was there yet I'd never seen him. How much longer is someone supposed to go on believing in something they've never seen?
> 
> Hit the 'SUBMIT' button too soon. I don't fault you for finding the article upsetting and trying to correct an improper image but being angry at the author is futile.



It's just the response that really gets me.


----------



## sweet&fat

Jes said:


> My take on this woman's article is that it described her experience truthfully for hte most part. Who are we to say that her experience wasn't her experience?
> 
> I don't think all FAs are crazy or disgusting or anything else. I will say that those I've come across in my life, certainly those who self identified as FA, wanted me to break chairs, gain more weight, and feel lucky that they were talking to me at all (while they were telling me to gain more weight and break chairs). How many asked me about who I am as a person? Now compare that to how many who asked me 'how much do you weight?' and then expressed genuine disappointment when I didn't say 400 lbs, even though they lived on the opposite side of the country/world and weren't going to be seeing me, meeting me or even typing to me again, so what the hell did it really matter anyway?
> 
> Do I think every guy into fat women is like this? No. But can I point to more guys who are what I'd prefer than the guys described in the paragraph above? No. Not in terms of who I've met in my own life. My experience may not be representative, but it's certainly my experience.
> 
> I have this gut feeling that by a time a guy learns about he term 'FA' and the communities that have sprung up around that, he's already been steeped in the often-very-fetishy world of fat stuff. Maybe he's hidden this about himself for a long time, or even not had much (or any) sexual or social interaction. And maybe, the 40 year old virgins I've come into contact with here (and in my experience, there are a lot of them--including men who have been sexually active, but never with a fat woman), have a very unrealistic sense of what sex is, because that sense has been developed in a vacuum. Maybe they've read a lot of posts from women who talk about all things fat, and loving it, and wanting to eat another pie, and playing fast and loose and silly with little piggie outfits and lingerie, and perhaps they take this as representative of all fat women and their interests. And why wouldn't they--it's right there in black and white (and color). Pages and pages and pages of women saying those things are their biggest turn ons. ANd who am I to say that's not true? It might well be. But it's certainly not true for us all. But a man desperate to believe he's found a kindred soul may not be able, or willing, to make that distinction. Sometimes, people who have developed their sexual identities around sometimes-fetishistic places can end up stunted and dysfunctional. I'm guessing that's what women who want guys who like fat women but don't necessarily describe themselves as FAs and who know all of the other terminology in the Dims world, are responding to. And I'm guessing that's the stunted, dysfunctional world that the author of this article came up flush against, as well. You might not like her choices, you might not like her writing style, you might not like some of her judgements or pronouncements, but you can't fault someone for bristling at being met with stunted and dysfunctional men. You can't blame anyone for bristling at that!



Would like to rep you, but I can't. Sigh.


----------



## Jes

sweet&fat said:


> Would like to rep you, but I can't. Sigh.



i will take cash.


----------



## Jack Skellington

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Oh, for fuck's sake. ALL people objectify. Men who like thin women? They objectify.



I think this nicely sums up the whole thing.

I think this community has become so insular to an extent they don't see or notice the human behavior outside of the BBW/FA community. 

Without a doubt, I've come across a lot of posts here that have made my skin crawl. There are disrespectful pervs here no doubt about it and I have been known to call them out on their crap in my own polite way from time to time.

But outside of Dims (and I am restating the obvious here) there are just as many sickos, pervs, fetishists, abusers and weirdos after thin women and whatever else you can think of asking them to do whatever sick thing their mind can come up with. BBWs are not unique with this problem. They are just like everyone else.


----------



## Jack Skellington

TallFatSue said:


> My impression in half-a-century of living is that most FA's are fine decent men, with a subgroup who are merely clueless on how to deal with fat women.



I would go as far to say that I think there is a fairly sizable portion of men in general that are absolutely clueless on how to politely socially interact with women. If it was up to me, I'd have finishing school style classes starting at maybe the Jr HS level to help young men learn on how to politely behave in social situations.


----------



## Jes

Jack Skellington said:


> I think this nicely sums up the whole thing.
> 
> I think this community has become so insular to an extent they don't see or notice the human behavior outside of the BBW/FA community.
> 
> Without a doubt, I've come across a lot of posts here that have made my skin crawl. There are disrespectful pervs here no doubt about it and I have been known to call them out on their crap in my own polite way from time to time.
> 
> But outside of Dims (and I am restating the obvious here) there are just as many sickos, pervs, fetishists, abusers and weirdos after thin women and whatever else you can think of asking them to do whatever sick thing their mind can come up with. BBWs are not unique with this problem. They are just like everyone else.



i echo what someone else said about finding much more of that here than i ever found anywhere else. and i've been the same old fat chick for a long while. 

i acknowledge the fact that it's my choice to be here and that i can vote with my feet, but jack, please realize you may have a female avatar but you're not actually a woman. It's different for a girl, as they say.


----------



## Jack Skellington

Jes said:


> i echo what someone else said about finding much more of that here than i ever found anywhere else. and i've been the same old fat chick for a long while.



I'll point you back to TallFatSue's post. She has had the displeasure of finding weirdos just about everywhere.



> but jack, please realize you may have a female avatar



From what I understand there's actually a bit of debate about that. 



> but you're not actually a woman.



Does that mean the people that have cats and dogs for avatars are not actually kittens and puppies!?


----------



## LillyBBBW

I'm actually an angry dude in a funny hat.


----------



## Wagimawr

I take it you're also not convinced?


----------



## LillyBBBW

Wagimawr said:


> I take it you're also not convinced?



Cut it out, I can't Rep you again!


----------



## Jack Skellington

LillyBBBW said:


> Cut it out, I can't Rep you again!



It won't let me rep him yet either.


----------



## Wagimawr

Jack Skellington said:


> It won't let me rep him yet either.


Been stingy with rep, eh Jack?


----------



## Jack Skellington

Wagimawr said:


> Been stingy with rep, eh Jack?



Yeah, I guess I have been kinda slacking on my spite rep lately.


----------



## Wagimawr

Between that avatar and your own shining star of a personality you've probably got spite for ages.

Vault. *ahem* Rep. GET TO IT


----------



## Jes

Jack Skellington said:


> I'll point you back to TallFatSue's post. She has had the displeasure of finding weirdos just about everywhere.
> 
> 
> 
> ?



Yes, but how do they contact her? On the internet. Via a message board.

I rest my case.


----------



## RedVelvet

Jack Skellington said:


> I would go as far to say that I think there is a fairly sizable portion of men in general that are absolutely clueless on how to politely socially interact with women. If it was up to me, I'd have finishing school style classes starting at maybe the Jr HS level to help young men learn on how to politely behave in social situations.




So many reasons to love Jack...so little time.


----------



## Jon Blaze

Jack Skellington said:


> It won't let me rep him yet either.



I got him for you both.


----------



## runningman

I can't read all this thread (to be honest I don't read through many) but in this case I'm too afraid of what I'll read. I am an 'FA' for want of a better term. I am physically attracted to larger girls. I am also a 'fetishist' as I have a fetish that gets me excited. So this makes me one of the real nutters. I have no idea why my fetish gets me excited. For years I dismissed it as some sort of mental disorder. Sites like dimensions helped me realise that I am not alone and let me except that yes I like **********, it is a bit 'weird' if you like but it just does it for me and I no longer search for reasons trying to 'explain' it.

I have made many friends through this site. And I consider myself to be thoroughly normal. In fact 'average' probably sums me up. I am however afraid that if I read through this thread I will discover that I am a fucked up mental case who should be removed from all society forthwith. And if I do that who are you gonna make sheep jokes about? 

I am not trying to stick up for anybody in particular. I guess what I am trying to say is that 'generalisation' is the enemy. No one person can make a judgement about a collective group of people based on one or even several experiences. You have to take each and every person you meet as an individual and thus different from the last guy. It's easy to say because essentially when we generalise and group and categorise or whatever it is human nature. We all do it or have done it at some point. My friends for example are convinced that all Americans are idiots. I say that generalisation is wrong - there are smart and stupid people everywhere etc etc. And then Bush comes on the tv and I lose my argument. 

OK I started this post with a serious agenda. And now I am making jokes. :doh: Just don't make me read this thread so I have to see how 'wrong' everybody thinks I am or I am heading straight for the nearest bridge!


----------



## AnnMarie

runningman said:


> I can't read all this thread (to be honest I don't read through many) but in this case I'm too afraid of what I'll read. I am an 'FA' for want of a better term. I am physically attracted to larger girls. I am also a 'fetishist' as I have a fetish that gets me excited. So this makes me one of the real nutters. I have no idea why my fetish gets me excited. For years I dismissed it as some sort of mental disorder. Sites like dimensions helped me realise that I am not alone and let me except that yes I like **********, it is a bit 'weird' if you like but it just does it for me and I no longer search for reasons trying to 'explain' it.
> 
> I have made many friends through this site. And I consider myself to be thoroughly normal. In fact 'average' probably sums me up. I am however afraid that if I read through this thread I will discover that I am a fucked up mental case who should be removed from all society forthwith. And if I do that who are you gonna make sheep jokes about?
> 
> I am not trying to stick up for anybody in particular. I guess what I am trying to say is that 'generalisation' is the enemy. No one person can make a judgement about a collective group of people based on one or even several experiences. You have to take each and every person you meet as an individual and thus different from the last guy. It's easy to say because essentially when we generalise and group and categorise or whatever it is human nature. We all do it or have done it at some point. My friends for example are convinced that all Americans are idiots. I say that generalisation is wrong - there are smart and stupid people everywhere etc etc. And then Bush comes on the tv and I lose my argument.
> 
> OK I started this post with a serious agenda. And now I am making jokes. :doh: Just don't make me read this thread so I have to see how 'wrong' everybody thinks I am or I am heading straight for the nearest bridge!



There are actually some very supportive, nice posts about FAs - so don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.


----------



## LJ Rock

Interesting article... allow me to preface this post by saying that I've not yet read all the posts in this thread. So forgive me if any of these points sound redundant in any way. 

I think we can state with assurance that the issue of objectifying women is not unique to the FA/BBW community. Anywhere you look you will see the female form and female sexuality being used and exploited, from the hardest of the hard-core porn, to Playboy and Penthouse, to the covers of fashion magazines and television ads, etc. These media images are driven into our collective subconscious from the time we are old enough to hold a remote or click a mouse (we meaning all of us, men and women,) and for better or worse they stay with us always. In this light it is no surprise that many young men (and young women) grow up with a warped, twisted view of sexuality, regardless of their individual preferences and/or fetishes. 

Why then should we expect things be any different for men who are attracted to women of size? 

The problem is, as I see it, that because there is so much prejudice against people of size in our society, many women are lead to feel that the only men that they can really find companionship with are either those who will love them _despite_ their size, or maybe even better, _because_ of their size. It makes sense, doesn't it? If I am a fat woman, and this guy likes fat women, then we should be a match made in heaven. Right? 

So then what is the problem? 

I'll tell you what the problem is: it's that nice guys finish last! _Always!_ I should know, because I am a nice guy, and I always finish last. lol Well, maybe not _always._ But seriously, my point is that the "nice guys" in the world, including nice FAs are often not aggressive enough or assertive enough to really put themselves out there and approach the women that they find so desirable. They may be too shy, or just too respectful of women to utilize the brazen "Yo, Baby!" approach that often times seems to be the only thing that gets anyone's attention. 

And that's the other side of the coin: often times it seems like women aren't really looking at the "nice guys." I think the "freaks" get all the attention sometimes because they're just more, well... _interesting_ (to cleverly use a word that's already been used to describe them but in a slightly different context. lol) Whether we're in the real world or cyber world, the freaks, jerks and abusive bastards are just out there and in your face all the time, while the nice guys are just sitting quietly hoping that they're not bothering anyone and wondering if anyone in the room likes them. :doh: 

Ultimately I'd like to believe that there are enough nice FAs and nice BBWs to go around. I don't know if it's true or not, but I'd like to believe that it is, and I'd like to believe that if we all just hang in there and don't let the freaks and geeks and assholes bring us down, we'll all be lucky enough to sort through the madness and find one another.


----------



## Fascinita

I mean, in the end, all this woman is saying is that she had a terrible time as a fat person, and that she decided life would be better thin. And I hear some truth in her complaint, though I don't share in most of her view on life. I'm never going to have WL surgery, for instance; and I believe in living your life as you are, rather than pipe dreaming and going to extremes to fit some mold. But I can sympathize with this woman. I've lived some of those experiences she describes.

She's talking about not just perverted FAs, but about a life that she felt dissatisfied with. We can all agree that not every person who likes a fat partner is a weirdo. It's ridiculous to say that all FAs are sickos. And her piece suffers a little, in my opinion, from a too-narrow autobiographical perspective. I would like to have seen her story drawn against a larger background of "life as a fat person," including perhaps accounts of other people's experiences. Still, it is her prerogative to write exclusively about her own experiences, and you *can't force anyone to abandon their views in favor of yours*. (Not just the author, but the *editors* are responsible for what was published in this piece, as well. Let's not forget that.)

But you can *dialogue*.

I'm sorry that the men here at Dimensions feel offended by the article. I wouldn't like to read an article written by Joe Average railing about how the woman he met online turned out to weigh 300 lbs and hadn't showered in a month. It's a fine line between "this happened to me" and "all I could see/hear when I met her/him was that the stereotypes are true." But some of the women here are saying that they HAVE encountered a number of fat admiring "perverts." Many of us have *acknowledged* that it's just *par for the course*, since most anyone who dates is bound to meet a few doozies before finding gold. So it's not even a question of ALL FAs being this way or that, but of *discussing experiences*--which is healthy, right? discussion is a good thing--that for many of us have been negative, and which have added to our sense of isolation as fat people. For example, I would be interested in hearing from men here on whether THEY see the portrayal of the perverted fat admirer as a stereotype, and *how or why* it is made into a stereotype, or whether they see any truth in it, and maybe help us fat chicks learn a thing or two about men. 

I don't think we need to be deffensive because *I don't think we need to be ashamed* of ourselves, those of us who are basically good people who'd never dream of taking advantage of or abusing other people. But we can talk. I think dialogue is good, you know?


----------



## EtobicokeFA

Fascinita said:


> I mean, in the end, all this woman is saying is that she had a terrible time as a fat person, and that she decided life would be better thin. And I hear some truth in her complaint, though I don't share in most of her view on life. I'm never going to have WL surgery, for instance; and I believe in living your life as you are, rather than pipe dreaming and going to extremes to fit some mold. But I can sympathize with this woman. I've lived some of those experiences she describes.
> 
> She's talking about not just perverted FAs, but about a life that she felt dissatisfied with. We can all agree that not every person who likes a fat partner is a weirdo. It's ridiculous to say that all FAs are sickos. And her piece suffers a little, in my opinion, from a too-narrow autobiographical perspective. I would like to have seen her story drawn against a larger background of "life as a fat person," including perhaps accounts of other people's experiences. Still, it is her prerogative to write exclusively about her own experiences, and you *can't force anyone to abandon their views in favor of yours*. (Not just the author, but the *editors* are responsible for what was published in this piece, as well. Let's not forget that.)
> 
> But you can *dialogue*.
> 
> I'm sorry that the men here at Dimensions feel offended by the article. I wouldn't like to read an article written by Joe Average railing about how the woman he met online turned out to weigh 300 lbs and hadn't showered in a month. It's a fine line between "this happened to me" and "all I could see/hear when I met her/him was that the stereotypes are true." But some of the women here are saying that they HAVE encountered a number of fat admiring "perverts." Many of us have *acknowledged* that it's just *par for the course*, since most anyone who dates is bound to meet a few doozies before finding gold. So it's not even a question of ALL FAs being this way or that, but of *discussing experiences*--which is healthy, right? discussion is a good thing--that for many of us have been negative, and which have added to our sense of isolation as fat people. For example, I would be interested in hearing from men here on whether THEY see the portrayal of the perverted fat admirer as a stereotype, and *how or why* it is made into a stereotype, or whether they see any truth in it, and maybe help us fat chicks learn a thing or two about men.
> 
> I don't think we need to be deffensive because I don't think we need to be ashamed of ourselves. But we can talk. I think dialogue is good, you know?



It is not that she had a bad date with a FA, it's the fact that she using the bad experience to form a generalization about the entire FA community. 

And, considering her bad experience with society about her weight, that was just the straw the broke the camel's back.

As for the statement *"can't force anyone to abandon their views in favor of yours"*, technically you are right, but if they have a open mind you can slowly influence their views.


----------



## Jes

LJ Rock said:


> Why then should we expect things be any different for men who are attracted to women of size?
> 
> .



again, my understanding of the author's experiences wasn't that she was talking about attraction, but more about fetishizing. Yes, I've had men be aggressive to me before, sexually. The standard bar hit-on thing. Not a lot, but I've been there (online too, obviously). But that's somehow, to me, different from the Hey, SIT ON ME 'TIL I DIE! I WANT YOU TO CUT OFF MY AIRWAYS! CAN YOU EAT SO MUCH FOOD THAT YOU STOP UP MY TOILET? THAT WOULD BE HOT! And then, them thinking that's sexually arousing to me, a turn on, a give and take. At least a guy who hits me up for sex can be relatively sure I like sex. But Killing someone with my hootie? and then stopping up his toilet? 

I don't know. I don't believe objectification or unsolicited whatever is any better if it's more... mainstream, but my god, this stuff is so specific that if you're not into it, it just feels really screwed up and disconcerting. And it comes out so quickly from these guys. Runningman, your having a fetish--good on ya, mate. But the author's issue is, I think, that trotting out that stuff 12 seconds into a conversation is like flashing. It feels like an assault.

I have talked myself into a circle here and I don't know where to go. I think I've made, and then negated, my argument. Damn.


----------



## Judge_Dre

Fascinita said:


> (Not just the author, but the *editors* are responsible for what was published in this piece, as well. Let's not forget that.)
> 
> But you can *dialogue*.



Speaking as a journalist and editor, I feel that the editors of SF Weekly did a great disservice in printing that article. According to Jay West Coast, this was the cover story. San Francisco has a reputation of tolerance that can border on the extreme at times. It surprises me that the editors would print an article that really condemns a lot of people unfairly. Yes she has every right to discuss her bad relations with FAs, but what if she had bad relations with Blacks or Jews? Couldn't she then dismiss them as freaks and weirdos? I'm expecting a lot of angry and disappointed size activists sending letters to the editorial office.

The article was way too overindulgent for a professional weekly newspaper. This isn't a college writing workshop. What value is there to be taken from reading the whining of a woman who despite losing weight, still isn't comfortable with herself? She even admits, "I'm still a mess, but a better looking one." 

In an earlier post, I also quoted her as saying that FAs cannot go out with thinner girls because we aren't good looking or charming enough. She is very childish. This sounds more like the drivel of a summer intern than it does of a writer of a cover story.

Cosmetic WLS is promoted. Even after the surgery, the writer still has problems with herself. Guys who are attracted to big women are creeps. There seems to be no real positive message to this article. Reading this article makes people feel uncomfortable. Is that what the editors wanted?

I've had it with insecure fat girls. I want to read articles written by Big Beautiful Women!


----------



## Jes

Judge_Dre said:


> Speaking as a journalist and editor, I feel that the editors of SF Weekly did a great disservice in printing that article. According to Jay West Coast, this was the cover story. San Francisco has a reputation of tolerance that can border on the extreme at times. It surprises me that the editors would print an article that really condemns a lot of people unfairly. Yes she has every right to discuss her bad relations with FAs, but what if she had bad relations with Blacks or Jews? Couldn't she then dismiss them as freaks and weirdos?
> 
> The article was way too overindulgent for a professional weekly newspaper. This isn't a college writing workshop. What value is there to be taken from reading the whining of a woman who despite losing weight, still isn't comfortable with herself? She even admits, "I'm still a mess, but a better looking one."
> 
> In an earlier post, I also quoted her as saying that FAs cannot go out with thinner girls because we aren't good looking or charming enough. She is very childish. This sounds more like the drivel of a summer intern than it does of a writer of a cover story.
> 
> Cosmetic WLS is promoted. Even after the surgery, the writer still has problems with herself. Guys who are attracted to big women are creeps. There seems to be no real positive message to this article. Reading this article makes people feel uncomfortable. Is that what the editors wanted?
> 
> I've had it with insecure fat girls. I want to read articles written by Big Beautiful Women!


Ok! Then go read the mags and papers where happy fat women are invited to write about the....

oh. right.


----------



## Ash

AnnMarie said:


> There are actually some very supportive, nice posts about FAs - so don't throw out the baby with the bathwater.



'Cause then what will we do for maracas? 


But seriously, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I have met, dated, and been friends with some very cool, normal, non-freaky FAs. Fat-admiration and fat fetishism are not the same thing.


----------



## Fascinita

EtobicokeFA said:


> It is not that she had a bad date with a FA, it's the fact that she using the bad experience to form a generalization about the entire FA community.
> 
> And, considering her bad experience with society about her weight, that was just the straw the broke the camel's back.



Did you read the entire article, Etobicoke? Because there was much more in there than just her making a generalization about the antire FA community. In fact the author goes to lengths to explain how she hated herself for being fat, and acknowledges that this prevented her from enjoying the love of her *non-pervy FA boyfriend*. She also says later that "the internet is a... paradise" for fat women and their admirers, and reports that she *enjoyed* some of the fetish play she engaged in with the men she dated. In the end, she acknowledges that her dating life as a thin person is sometimes just as disappointing as when she was fat.

So she is describing one woman's complicated relationship with the world, as a fat person. The description of the man who used her in conversation for masturbation fodder is really only a small part of the article, though an important one.


----------



## RedVelvet

Jes said:


> But that's somehow, to me, different from the Hey, SIT ON ME 'TIL I DIE! I WANT YOU TO CUT OFF MY AIRWAYS! CAN YOU EAT SO MUCH FOOD THAT YOU STOP UP MY TOILET? THAT WOULD BE HOT! *And then, them thinking that's sexually arousing to me, a turn on, a give and take. *
> 
> ..... Runningman, your having a fetish--good on ya, mate. But the author's issue is, I think, that *trotting out that stuff 12 seconds into a conversation is like flashing. It feels like an assault.*




EXACTLY! egads! Thats IT!....its half the fetish....and half the fecking DECORUM.


Also....god, I guess I have to say it yet again....LOVE FAs in general, folks....prefer them, thank you...we are talking idiots in general....of which there seems to be a lot in the FA community...sorry..but there does.

There are ALSO a LOT of idiots in the BDSM community....trust me.

These two seem to be the winners in the "Percentage of Idiots" sweepstakes.....but that is, again...only MY opinion and experience.


----------



## Fascinita

Judge_Dre said:


> Speaking as a journalist and editor, I feel that the editors of SF Weekly did a great disservice in printing that article. According to Jay West Coast, this was the cover story. San Francisco has a reputation of tolerance that can border on the extreme at times. It surprises me that the editors would print an article that really condemns a lot of people unfairly.



Well, it's because fat is the current "last bastion" of hatred. Make no mistake about it: this article, much as it's been painted here as an anti-FA piece, is NOT an attack on y'all so much as it's just another volley in a mounting battle against everything fat. The woman is expressing her *surrender* over to the side of thin. It's clear she's conflicted about her own pro- and anti-fat feelings.

Yes, I'm a little disappointed that even San Fran doesn't welcome us entirely; but I'm a fat woman living in America, so I'm not completely suprised about it, either.


----------



## Judge_Dre

Fascinita said:


> Well, it's because fat is the current "last bastion" of hatred. Make no mistake about it: this article, much as it's been painted here as an anti-FA piece, is NOT an attack on y'all so much as it's just another volley in a mounting battle against everything fat. The woman is expressing her *surrender* over to the side of thin. It's clear she's conflicted about her own pro- and anti-fat feelings.
> 
> Yes, I'm a little disappointed that even San Fran doesn't welcome us entirely; but I'm a fat woman living in America, so I'm not completely suprised about it, either.



To be honest, I'm not all that surprised myself. I once wrote an article on Heather Boyle. It was in writing that article that I first met many people from Dimensions in person. My editor loved the article and was pushing to have it published. Of course, my fat positive article never saw the light of day due to the higher ups in the company. At the same time I was being commended for bringing diversity in, I was being marginalized.


----------



## Jes

Judge_Dre said:


> . At the same time I was being commended for bringing diversity in, I was being marginalized.



Hmm. Not unlike my delicious, delicious buttocks.


----------



## LJ Rock

Jes said:


> again, my understanding of the author's experiences wasn't that she was talking about attraction, but more about fetishizing. Yes, I've had men be aggressive to me before, sexually. The standard bar hit-on thing. Not a lot, but I've been there (online too, obviously). But that's somehow, to me, different from the Hey, SIT ON ME 'TIL I DIE! I WANT YOU TO CUT OFF MY AIRWAYS! CAN YOU EAT SO MUCH FOOD THAT YOU STOP UP MY TOILET? THAT WOULD BE HOT! And then, them thinking that's sexually arousing to me, a turn on, a give and take. At least a guy who hits me up for sex can be relatively sure I like sex. But Killing someone with my hootie? and then stopping up his toilet?
> 
> I don't know. I don't believe objectification or unsolicited whatever is any better if it's more... mainstream, but my god, this stuff is so specific that if you're not into it, it just feels really screwed up and disconcerting. And it comes out so quickly from these guys. Runningman, your having a fetish--good on ya, mate. But the author's issue is, I think, that trotting out that stuff 12 seconds into a conversation is like flashing. It feels like an assault.
> 
> I have talked myself into a circle here and I don't know where to go. I think I've made, and then negated, my argument. Damn.



Okay, well I guess that's the point I was trying to make (long-winded as it might have been,) that there are men in the world who are users of women's bodies rather than lovers of a woman as a human being. Regardless of what body part or body type they are obsessed with, their view of women is that they are slabs of meat to be used to satisfy their own desires and then discarded with no consideration for their feelings. There are men like this everywhere, and there are women all over of all shapes, sizes, colors, creeds and stations in life who fall victim to their games. 

Ultimately it doesn't matter to these men whether you are fat, skinny, short, tall, young, old or anything. All they see is that you are of the "weaker sex" and that you exist for their pleasure or amusement. I know that sounds horrible, and I hate even saying it.... but it is really horrible to know just how many men there are who actually think like this. In short, they are misogynists. 

I take no offense to this article nor to the author's sentiments. She is only reflecting her point of view from her experiences, and I respect that completely. In response the question posed by the OP, I strongly contend that *NO* not all men who admire women of size are abusers or view women as sexual objects only. This is something I know for a fact!


----------



## Fascinita

Jes said:


> Hmm. Not unlike my delicious, delicious buttocks.



She does, Dre. One side is chocolate, the other strawberry. And they taste good with syrup.

PS - I could tell you stories about how many times people have clammed up when I try to bring up the subject of fat--even well-meaning, intelligent people who enjoy debate and are engaged politically. But it's just sort of tabboo. Sorry your article was nixed. Keep trying.


----------



## Jes

LJ Rock said:


> In short, they are misogynists.
> 
> !



for some reason, this is both the funniest, and cutest, thing I've seen in days. 

grrr! angry face! don't hate women! 


And Fasc, there was a thread a while back(last few months) from FAs talking about FA stereotypes. Someone can point you to it, I'm sure. I think just about every guy said he had nothing to do with them, as I recall (haha), so I don't know where those stereotypes are comin' from.


----------



## Fascinita

Jes said:


> for some reason, this is both the funniest, and cutest, thing I've seen in days.
> 
> grrr! angry face! don't hate women!



Now that you point it out, I see what you mean. lol Cute and sweet.

---

LJ Rock, I know more than a few women who _love_ nice guys. Jes, for instance!


----------



## Angel

LJ Rock said:


> Interesting article... allow me to preface this post by saying that I've not yet read all the posts in this thread. So forgive me if any of these points sound redundant in any way.
> 
> I think we can state with assurance that the issue of objectifying women is not unique to the FA/BBW community. Anywhere you look you will see the female form and female sexuality being used and exploited, from the hardest of the hard-core porn, to Playboy and Penthouse, to the covers of fashion magazines and television ads, etc. These media images are driven into our collective subconscious from the time we are old enough to hold a remote or click a mouse (we meaning all of us, men and women,) and for better or worse they stay with us always. In this light it is no surprise that many young men (and young women) grow up with a warped, twisted view of sexuality, regardless of their individual preferences and/or fetishes.
> 
> Why then should we expect things be any different for men who are attracted to women of size?
> 
> The problem is, as I see it, that because there is so much prejudice against people of size in our society, many women are lead to feel that the only men that they can really find companionship with are either those who will love them _despite_ their size, or maybe even better, _because_ of their size. It makes sense, doesn't it? If I am a fat woman, and this guy likes fat women, then we should be a match made in heaven. Right?
> 
> So then what is the problem?
> 
> I'll tell you what the problem is: it's that nice guys finish last! _Always!_ I should know, because I am a nice guy, and I always finish last. lol Well, maybe not _always._ But seriously, my point is that the "nice guys" in the world, including nice FAs are often not aggressive enough or assertive enough to really put themselves out there and approach the women that they find so desirable. They may be too shy, or just too respectful of women to utilize the brazen "Yo, Baby!" approach that often times seems to be the only thing that gets anyone's attention.
> 
> And that's the other side of the coin: often times it seems like women aren't really looking at the "nice guys." I think the "freaks" get all the attention sometimes because they're just more, well... _interesting_ (to cleverly use a word that's already been used to describe them but in a slightly different context. lol) Whether we're in the real world or cyber world, the freaks, jerks and abusive bastards are just out there and in your face all the time, while the nice guys are just sitting quietly hoping that they're not bothering anyone and wondering if anyone in the room likes them. :doh:
> 
> Ultimately I'd like to believe that there are enough nice FAs and nice BBWs to go around. I don't know if it's true or not, but I'd like to believe that it is, and I'd like to believe that if we all just hang in there and don't let the freaks and geeks and assholes bring us down, we'll all be lucky enough to sort through the madness and find one another.




"Yo, Baby!" 


Here it's "Yo, Babe! Nice belly! MMMMmmmmm!!!!!!" 


*giggles*


Great post.



Nice guys (and gals) may finish last, but who they eventually end up with will be well worth the wait. At least I keep telling myself that, anyway.


----------



## RedVelvet

LJ Rock..

As a woman who NEVER had a "bad boy" phase....and always liked nice men..

....you will not forever finish last...I promise.





Meanwhile....few things scarier than a non nice man who thinks he is...


"BUT I AM SUCH A HAPLESS LAD!"

(ahem..)


----------



## waldo

k1009 said:


> I've heard being an FA compared to being gay. That it's who you are, not who you choose to be. And chubby chaser is used endearingly amongst the gay community so it might be a bit off to refer to the blokes we don't want in that way.
> 
> Reminds me of a discussion I followed on a alt.twuedomsandslaves once, twice, ten million times.
> 
> "he's not a real dom"
> "yes he is"
> "he isn't because I say he isn't"
> "blow me"



It is true, in my opinion, that being an FA is not a choice but rather an inborn orientation just as being homosexual. The problem is that the respectful/honest FAs get irritated when the term is used in referring to the unsavory characters. Then we have seen some people use the term 'true FA' (of which I am not a fan) to refer to those who have proven to be of good intentions. Of course it is just a name and most people (including fat chicks) are still going to lump us all together and see us as freaks regardless of what you call us.

I have seen it mentioned before that 'chubby chaser' is routinely used in the gay community but it seems to be quite commonly used in the general American population to refer to FAs. Often references to heterosexual male and female FAs in TV and movies will use this term.

In looking for use of the term chubby chaser online, I found this YouTube video which is from a young woman who has a similar story as the one profiled in the SF Weekly article - another fat woman who had WLS and is now discussing her opinions on the FA/BBW dynamic. I found it to be an interesting piece.

Here is a Myspace page of a musical group of hetero male FAs
that calls themselves The Chubby Chasers -


----------



## LJ Rock

Angel said:


> "Yo, Baby!"
> 
> 
> Here it's "Yo, Babe! Nice belly! MMMMmmmmm!!!!!!"
> 
> 
> *giggles*
> 
> 
> Great post.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice guys (and gals) may finish last, but who they eventually end up with will be well worth the wait. At least I keep telling myself that, anyway.



Thanks, Angel.  

And yeah, I think you're right... if you're sure of yourself and you know what you want, you will find what you are looking for, and it will indeed be well worth the wait. Such is true of life.


----------



## LJ Rock

RedVelvet said:


> LJ Rock..
> 
> As a woman who NEVER had a "bad boy" phase....and always liked nice men..
> 
> ....you will not forever finish last...I promise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Meanwhile....few things scarier than a non nice man who thinks he is...
> 
> 
> "BUT I AM SUCH A HAPLESS LAD!"
> 
> (ahem..)



Thank you, RedVelvet... I beleive you are correct; nice guys who finish last today will almost always come out on top in the end.  As a matter of fact I consider myself one of the lucky ones who managed to find a good woman whom I have a good relationship with, despite sometimes being too "nice" for my own good. lol


----------



## TraciJo67

LJ Rock said:


> Thank you, RedVelvet... I beleive you are correct; nice guys who finish last today will almost always come out on top in the end.  As a matter of fact I consider myself one of the lucky ones who managed to find a good woman whom I have a good relationship with, despite sometimes being too "nice" for my own good. lol



LJ, I'm curious ... can you clarify? What is it about yourself that makes you think that you're too nice? I've heard men use this phrase so many times before, and I have to admit ... I'm curious as to what it actually means.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Tooz said:


> Echo, echo, echo.
> 
> The FA community has a lot of weird people in it. So does the non-FA rest of the world (tm). As with everything, though, there are fantastic people within the community. The problem is, every time someone has a bad experience, you are far more likely to hear about it. "My husband likes large women, and he treats me wonderfully. I cherish every day we have together!" doesn't attract readers like "and THEN he wanted me to put my _____ on his _____! CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?"
> 
> I have seen the freaks, and I have also seen some respectable guys who are FAs. Like "normal" dating, finding a nice person is pretty much a crap shoot. That article except is depressing, though.



I think Tooz makes a good point here.....:bow:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

goofy girl said:


> I totally agree. There are some wonderful, intelligent, kind FA's out there, however, they seem to be the minority. Or at least, as Lilly mentioned, they aren't as prominent.
> 
> Sadly, the article you quoted seems to describe almost every FA I ever knew. Most of the FA's that I have encountered make me feel used (for the belly, the boobs, the arm fat or whatever it is they are into) and not at all that they genuinely want to know me as a person. They feel that because they admire my body and "treat me like a Goddess" (code word for oral sex, I guess?) meant that I should be OK with them grabbing my fat and shaking it or using the back of my knee as a vagina. Ummmm yeah..NO.
> 
> No idea if any of this makes any sense (what else is new??), but..anyway, I don't think that just being an FA makes someone a freak, but there are definitely FA freaks out there-lots of them.




I figure that dating FAs is like dating out in "the rest of the world" , it's a simple case of "all of the good ones are taken" and all the rest of the single ones are single for good reasons :doh: 

OH and I repped the heck out of you for "code word for oral sex" ---------- that's so hot *swoons* ooooooooopppppppppppppssss wrong window again DOH

























Yes, I'm an old bitter pessimist...........you really should stop reading my opinions/posts


----------



## EtobicokeFA

Fascinita said:


> Did you read the entire article, Etobicoke? Because there was much more in there than just her making a generalization about the antire FA community. In fact the author goes to lengths to explain how she hated herself for being fat, and acknowledges that this prevented her from enjoying the love of her *non-pervy FA boyfriend*. She also says later that "the internet is a... paradise" for fat women and their admirers, and reports that she *enjoyed* some of the fetish play she engaged in with the men she dated. In the end, she acknowledges that her dating life as a thin person is sometimes just as disappointing as when she was fat.
> 
> So she is describing one woman's complicated relationship with the world, as a fat person. The description of the man who used her in conversation for masturbation fodder is really only a small part of the article, though an important one.



True, she said things like this, to acknowledges that her body hatred prevented her from accept her boyfriend. 



> Then I met another boyfriend, a great guy who was really nice (I didn't trust him of course  he was too nice), and, strangely, he liked "fleshy" women. This didn't compute; no one liked fat chicks except closet cases and retards. Despite all my attempts at anorexia I had never gotten beyond being curvy, or, in my mind, fat. Still, I remember gaining a little weight in the beginning of our love, as people often do, and looking at myself in the mirror and saying, "You know what, Katy? So what?"


And, yes I know that it was about her complicated relationship with the world. 

And this is why I said this: 



EtobicokeFA said:


> And, considering her bad experience with society about her weight, that was just the straw the broke the camel's back.



But the my issue is with this statement:



> * What is there to say about chubby chasers? They objectify fat women*, and after eight years of no action, this ho was ready to be objectified. Everything that might disgust you about your body  your hanging belly, your cottage-cheese butt, your floppy, massive titties  got these men harder than concrete.


The way I am interrupting this she sees FAs objectifying her, just like the world did. 

And, if you read the article she seems to made the decision of WLS shortly after the date with the *pervy FA boyfriend*, and there is no mention on how the relationship with no non-pervy FA ended. 

It is too bad that even with the strength, support and knowledge, in the end society won, over her body image. And, it's a shame when it does. 

Finally, you know that one of the issue that is also brings up is this question. Is the concept of Fat Admirer really just, the objectification of fat women instead of thin ones?


----------



## goofy girl

Let's just burn the article and use the flames to toast marshmallows for smore's


----------



## Spanky

TraciJo67 said:


> LJ, I'm curious ... can you clarify? What is it about yourself that makes you think that you're too nice? I've heard men use this phrase so many times before, and I have to admit ... I'm curious as to what it actually means.



<lock and load, ladies>

Bad Boy: tries to get into a lady's pants first as a way to maybe get to know her later. 

Nice Guy: tries to get to know a lady first as a way to maybe get into her pants later. 

<ducks and runs>


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Blackjack said:


> Means I have to try harder, I guess.




Now you have me interested........:batting: :smitten:


----------



## TraciJo67

Spanky said:


> <lock and load, ladies>
> 
> Bad Boy: tries to get into a lady's pants first as a way to maybe get to know her later.
> 
> Nice Guy: tries to get to know a lady first as a way to maybe get into her pants later.
> 
> <ducks and runs>



What kind of cheese?


----------



## Spanky

TraciJo67 said:


> What kind of cheese?



Well, I'm headed to Surdyk's.......make a list. 

Geeeez.


----------



## TraciJo67

Spanky said:


> Well, I'm headed to Surdyk's.......make a list.
> 
> Geeeez.



Hokely dokely, neighbor. I'll take some w(h)ine with that cheese. Really


----------



## The Orange Mage

Spanky said:


> <lock and load, ladies>
> 
> Bad Boy: tries to get into a lady's pants first as a way to maybe get to know her later.
> 
> Nice Guy: tries to get to know a lady first as a way to maybe get into her pants later.
> 
> <ducks and runs>



Believe it or not, women can't read minds (in this situation.)

If you approach a woman "wanting to get to know her" then you are approaching her as someone wanting to be a friend and therefore will be classified as one.

If you want to get romantically involved with a woman, be upfront about it and be charming while you're at it. Not fake-charming...more of the "I'm being sincere and slightly shy" kind of charming. Also, an authentic British/Irish/Spanish/etc. accent never hurts. 

Am I right?


----------



## gangstadawg

k1009 said:


> Disclaimer: I've never met an actual FA, let alone had one shag my elbow fat.
> 
> I don't think FAs are all creepy weirdos but given that this is a subculture which does much of its interaction online, it should be expected that the proportion of creepy weirdos involved would be quite high. I think a lot of FA activity borders on fetish too (fetish as in the proper use of the word, not glam emo kind), particularly the obsession some men have with bellies or with certain shapes. Sure, there are guys into thin girls who are exclusively leg or breast men, but very few to the point that I see with FAs and their love of [insert body part/shape here].
> 
> Then there are the things you can do with a fat girl that can't be done with a thin one. Not that I'm not embracing my fat but... I don't want to do these things! And I'm sure I'm not alone. I just want a nice bloke who wants to ____ me and doesn't want to bukkake my rolls, you know?
> 
> I understand where this woman is coming from. Sometimes you just want to be like everyone else, even if being an individual is super fantastic and unique.


whats bukake?


----------



## goofy girl

gangstadawg said:


> whats bukake?



ick *shivers* blech ..you don't want to know. Well, maybe you do..google it


----------



## Jes

gangstadawg said:


> whats bukake?



Oh, honey! it's called google! look into it!

Not only can I sort of believe someone doesn't know the term BUT it's priceless that this is the only word you picked out to question! why not google first?!


----------



## Blackjack

gangstadawg said:


> whats bukake?



I'll tell you this much- don't do an image search of it.


----------



## Jon Blaze

gangstadawg said:


> whats bukake?



To be blunt:
Think of it as a sexually one-sided super soaker game, with one victim, and many "Attackers".


----------



## gangstadawg

Blackjack said:


> I'll tell you this much- don't do an image search of it.


:looks up definition: wow sounds kinda crappy
:does image search dispite warning givin: aww thats not kosher at all. the definition alone was a WTF moment. now i wanna erase the word "load" from my vocabulary.


----------



## The Orange Mage

Hah, I drop a decent, non-agressive post and I'm repaid with bukkake discussion?

What's sad is, I can't decide if that's terrible or terribly awesome. :blink:


----------



## Jes

The Orange Mage said:


> What's sad is, I can't decide if that's terrible or terribly awesome. :blink:



Why must you insist on this dichotomy?


----------



## Eclectic_Girl

The Orange Mage said:


> Believe it or not, women can't read minds (in this situation.)
> 
> If you approach a woman "wanting to get to know her" then you are approaching her as someone wanting to be a friend and therefore will be classified as one.
> 
> If you want to get romantically involved with a woman, be upfront about it and be charming while you're at it. Not fake-charming...more of the "I'm being sincere and slightly shy" kind of charming. Also, an authentic British/Irish/Spanish/etc. accent never hurts.
> 
> Am I right?



You are right.


----------



## LJ Rock

TraciJo67 said:


> LJ, I'm curious ... can you clarify? What is it about yourself that makes you think that you're too nice? I've heard men use this phrase so many times before, and I have to admit ... I'm curious as to what it actually means.



Hi TraciJo... well, for a long winded and perhaps somewhat convoluted explanation of what I mean please feel free to read my first response to this thread found on page of five. lol To paraphrase for you, basically what I was saying is that often times the men who are respectful and considerate of women's feelings get pushed to the back and otherwise overshadowed by the so-called "jerks" and "creeps" who are constantly in your face with "Hey Ma, holla at yo boy" and "let me see your blankety-blank!" These guys get all the attention because they are so obnoxious and so vocal, while so-called "nice guys" would never dream of doing or saying something like that to woman (particualrly someone he doesn't even know.) And I think that maybe sometimes you ladies get to a point where if you meet a guy who isn't hooting and hollering and carrying on like that, you might think that he's not even interested in you, even though he may very well be. 

I actually like what Spanky said: that a _Bad Boy_ tries to get into a lady's pants first as a way to maybe get to know her later, and that the _Nice Guy_ tries to get to know a lady first as a way to maybe get into her pants later. lol It sounds kind of funny, but its really kind of deep. Basically its saying that a _real man_ puts the needs and feelings of a woman he cares (or anyone he cares about) before his own needs and his own gratification. Thats part of what it means to really care about somebody.... something to think about! 

To further clarify, when I describe myself as being a nice guy or "too nice for my own good" by no means am I trying to say that I am perfect or something. lol I am no saint to be sure! Sometimes I forget to leave the toilet seat up (or down, or whatever it is.) I've forgotten birthdays and anniversaries, and have time to time exhibeted other such ungentelman-like behavior.  But I try! I try hard to put the needs of others before my own, especially my woman's. And you know, there have been times in my life, more than one, when I was younger and less secure in myself when I let someone that I was genuinely interested in pass me by because I was _too_ considerate and _too_ cautious, not asserting myself and making my desires known... only to have that person swept away by some loud mouth jerk with a fast car and a drinking problem who was just in the right place at the right time, saw an opportunity to get something he wanted, and exploited it. Thats what it means to be "too nice." It happens all the time. But we all grow and learn.... well, most of us do. 

Alas, another long winded post. lol But I hope that helps to clarify.


----------



## Littleghost

I don't know, I think it's kinda the general tendency of anyone anywhere to latch on to the bad parts of anything non-average. It's why the news is sensational and Springer sells. (He still does, right?) It's kinda hard for anyone, even FAs to 'yell out' how nice or great they are without sounding jerky or conceited. <----- See? I just made it sound conceited.  Any one horror story will ruin it for a group, what with stereotyping. And when someone has a feel-good story about things most just have a "Eh, whatever." attitude. It's the tendency to dwell on the negative. Right now, I myself will admit that while I don't go for sensationalism, I find Oprah and the like to be too "saccharin."

What can I say? FAs are just people, maybe a little isolated sometimes, but we should be treated, just like BBWs () on an individual basis. Now dinner theater actors??? Don't even get me started.


----------



## Littleghost

There was an article in a science magazine I read awhile back on the psychology of why people notice/are attracted to things that stand out; world's tallest man, biggest ball of twine, most rubber bands, etc. And it was a real mind-bender trying to explain why things that actually stand out to us actually stand out to us. I sound silly even just trying to describe it in type.:doh: But it kinda dealt with people's general perceptions of things and what it really meant. Maybe I can dig it up.


----------



## The Orange Mage

Jes said:


> Why must you insist on this dichotomy?



Are you saying there's a middle ground...or perhaps this scale wraps around and I can have both?


----------



## Littleghost

sweet&fat said:


> Clearly this guy was a creep who is also an FA. I guess the question is if you believe that the percentage of creeps among FAs is higher than the percentage of creeps among non-FAs. My instinct is no, there are creeps among any population, but I do wonder sometimes if FAs "gone wrong" try to pull off bad behavior more often than their non-FA counterparts because they think BBWs are easier targets.



And then of course, there are always the creeps who aren't FAs at all, but are just screwing with BBWs because they think they're easy, etc. Very sad.


----------



## gangstadawg

LJ Rock said:


> Hi TraciJo... well, for a long winded and perhaps somewhat convoluted explanation of what I mean please feel free to read my first response to this thread found on page of five. lol To paraphrase for you, basically what I was saying is that often times the men who are respectful and considerate of women's feelings get pushed to the back and otherwise overshadowed by the so-called "jerks" and "creeps" who are constantly in your face with "Hey Ma, holla at yo boy" and "let me see your blankety-blank!" These guys get all the attention because they are so obnoxious and so vocal, while so-called "nice guys" would never dream of doing or saying something like that to woman (particualrly someone he doesn't even know.) And I think that maybe sometimes you ladies get to a point where if you meet a guy who isn't hooting and hollering and carrying on like that, you might think that he's not even interested in you, even though he may very well be.
> 
> I actually like what Spanky said: that a _Bad Boy_ tries to get into a lady's pants first as a way to maybe get to know her later, and that the _Nice Guy_ tries to get to know a lady first as a way to maybe get into her pants later. lol It sounds kind of funny, but its really kind of deep. Basically its saying that a _real man_ puts the needs and feelings of a woman he cares (or anyone he cares about) before his own needs and his own gratification. Thats part of what it means to really care about somebody.... something to think about!
> 
> To further clarify, when I describe myself as being a nice guy or "too nice for my own good" by no means am I trying to say that I am perfect or something. lol I am no saint to be sure! Sometimes I forget to leave the toilet seat up (or down, or whatever it is.) I've forgotten birthdays and anniversaries, and have time to time exhibeted other such ungentelman-like behavior.  But I try! I try hard to put the needs of others before my own, especially my woman's. And you know, there have been times in my life, more than one, when I was younger and less secure in myself when I let someone that I was genuinely interested in pass me by because I was _too_ considerate and _too_ cautious, not asserting myself and making my desires known... only to have that person swept away by some loud mouth jerk with a fast car and a drinking problem who was just in the right place at the right time, saw an opportunity to get something he wanted, and exploited it. Thats what it means to be "too nice." It happens all the time. But we all grow and learn.... well, most of us do.
> 
> Alas, another long winded post. lol But I hope that helps to clarify.


sounds similar to what was said at FF.


----------



## exile in thighville

Jay West Coast said:


> I was flipping through the cover article in the SFWeekly this morning at my local coffeeshop. The author had weight loss surgery two years ago, but I decided to read it anyway out of pure curiosity. The author goes on about how she actually cherished being 360, but in the world in which fat people have to live, it became "unreasonable" to not to live as a thin person.
> 
> As she discusses her life experience being fat (which is well written and I think people ought to be more educated to what the fat experience is), she writes a chapter about dating FA's:
> 
> 
> 
> After reading this, I felt really strange. Is it true? Are we weirdoes? If this liberal ultra-accepting newspaper labels us as fetishistic bucketcases, maybe I've been thinking of this all wrong.
> 
> What are your experiences with FA's? Are they the wonderful intentions of creation made to appreciate fat women for the beautiful beings they are, or a collection of fellers who could use some counseling? Was this author's experience indicative, or unfortunate and off-base?
> 
> (And, yes, part of me is posting this to hear self-affirming points that FA's are not freaks.)



It's not that it's not a liberal ultra-accepting newspaper. It's that this disillusioned woman idiotically attacked an entire group based on the behavior of one. A thin woman could write articles all day on the freaks who hit on her. Let her get the WLS, good riddance.


----------



## liz (di-va)

This article only continues to bother me. Why? I've seen it now in action, after sending it to a couple people I know, as they jumped onto the fatty freak lover dude discussion to the exclusion of all else and then asked me if all the guys I dated were like that.

(Something that keeps striking me about it retrospect: when she says, "I was also just glad to be gettin' some." The point being, you don't actually *have* to settle for Willie Wonka freaks if you don't wanna, ESPECIALLY for casual dating. What the hell. If you just wanna get laid, as she said she did, that's the easy part.)

The bigger issue, one that bounces around Dims these days a lot, one this article seems to have sparked again, is how we all find each other.

I'm a 41 fat chick and I find dating difficult. It's *not* that easy to meet nice FA-types. It's just not. Frankly, I think I'm a tough match, thin or fat. But not impossible. When it works for me, a lot of it *is* about being open to what (I still might not believe) is possible--letting the world come to me, not dismissing signals when I get them--and *getting out there*. 

I find it funny when it's not exasperating these days that Dimensions has become a place where people seem to think they are going for unicorn-spotting rather than for affirmation. People seem so sure nice FAs don't exist. 

Even if you have no evidence of them in your own life (or so you think), this place, contrary to the effect if seems to have, is evidence that they do. That is, I am very clear that I need Dims to be a place to validate my experiences as a fat woman: discrimination of various kinds, fitting into the world around me, dealing with the--yes--difficulties of dating, everything. I am here to know that people *believe* that these things happen, god knows they do. That's *one* thing I know I get here, otherwise I wouldn't bother. The first and most important thing.

So why don't we extend the same belief to dudes always? This place is swarming with (yes, okay, kooks and closeted guys and whatever--perils of self-identifying on the web, but also) regular guys who like fat chicks and articulate their (sometimes heartbreaking) experiences over and over. Shouldn't that confirm things rather than deny them? Don't we owe their experiences the same validation?

There is a logic breakdown from I'm-not-gettin-laid to FA's-don't-exist.

I say this despite the fact that I find it hard to find what I'm looking for, myself, short or long-term. I get exasperated and frustrated. But honestly, I don't have any 41-y-o friend who doesn't, fat or thin. With all the perils and foibles of this place, one thing it's always provided me with is hope. Not to mention, although I have made some romantic connections here (spread out very much over the course of 10 years), and I love seeing people meet and love each other through this site, I have always figured my chances were better outside of here, and so they've proven to be. This is where I come to recharge my batteries, not provide my everything. It's alluring to think it can (oh golly is it), but I'm just not sure that's how the whole thing works overall.

I have nothing but empathy for the where-are-the-FAs discussion. I have the same thoughts everyone else does: I sometimes wish FAs were equipped with pink hats by law so there wouldn't be one more thread about how "there are no FAs/BBWs in _______" and so it'd be easier to know what stranger to lurch up to in public and see if you got along. That'd fuckin rock. I think we have a hard row to hoe, fat people, and there are really few things to compare it to, socially, especially as a single person. But somehow...I think the challenge life provides us is the challenge life provides everyone, just more ratcheted up. I know that whenever I start wishin for the pink hats it's kind of a sign of something else goin on. *Nobody* gets pink hats.

That article lacks context and balance, just as discussions do here sometimes, I think. I'm sure this does too, although I tried. All I can say is that I've been listening to Edx talk about likin fat chicks for 10 years...I refuse to believe that there's just one dude in Ottawa waving that flag .

(p.s. _SFWeekly_ has made gallons of $ over the years from fattie advertising, not to mention a gizillion wacky features about fat burlesque and Says Who? and Marilyn Wann..they know people like fat chix. They just gave a forum to one of their own, here.)


----------



## Jes

The Orange Mage said:


> Are you saying there's a middle ground...or perhaps this scale wraps around and I can have both?



all i'm saying is that i've made a career out of being simultaneously terrible and terribly awesome.  haha.


----------



## Ash

liz (di-va) said:


> This article only continues to bother me. Why? I've seen it now in action, after sending it to a couple people I know, as they jumped onto the fatty freak lover dude discussion to the exclusion of all else and then asked me if all the guys I dated were like that. ...
> 
> *snip*



Yes! Yes, yes, yes, yes.


----------



## Dr. P Marshall

-on what it is about what was presented in the ARTICLE (not anyone's responses) that bothered me. It's the leap in logic that if a man is an FA and a creep, the creepiness has something to do with his being an FA. There are lots of creeps in the world. Plenty of non-FAs are capable of being very disturbing. And before the men on here get upset, I believe lots of us women can be creepy too, I just think women who are creepy and disturbing do it in a different way.


----------



## LillyBBBW

liz (di-va) said:


> This article only continues to bother me. Why? I've seen it now in action, after sending it to a couple people I know, as they jumped onto the fatty freak lover dude discussion to the exclusion of all else and then asked me if all the guys I dated were like that.
> 
> (Something that keeps striking me about it retrospect: when she says, "I was also just glad to be gettin' some." The point being, you don't actually *have* to settle for Willie Wonka freaks if you don't wanna, ESPECIALLY for casual dating. What the hell. If you just wanna get laid, as she said she did, that's the easy part.)
> 
> The bigger issue, one that bounces around Dims these days a lot, one this article seems to have sparked again, is how we all find each other.
> 
> I'm a 41 fat chick and I find dating difficult. It's *not* that easy to meet nice FA-types. It's just not. Frankly, I think I'm a tough match, thin or fat. But not impossible. When it works for me, a lot of it *is* about being open to what (I still might not believe) is possible--letting the world come to me, not dismissing signals when I get them--and *getting out there*.
> 
> I find it funny when it's not exasperating these days that Dimensions has become a place where people seem to think they are going for unicorn-spotting rather than for affirmation. People seem so sure nice FAs don't exist.
> 
> Even if you have no evidence of them in your own life (or so you think), this place, contrary to the effect if seems to have, is evidence that they do. That is, I am very clear that I need Dims to be a place to validate my experiences as a fat woman: discrimination of various kinds, fitting into the world around me, dealing with the--yes--difficulties of dating, everything. I am here to know that people *believe* that these things happen, god knows they do. That's *one* thing I know I get here, otherwise I wouldn't bother. The first and most important thing.
> 
> So why don't we extend the same belief to dudes always? This place is swarming with (yes, okay, kooks and closeted guys and whatever--perils of self-identifying on the web, but also) regular guys who like fat chicks and articulate their (sometimes heartbreaking) experiences over and over. Shouldn't that confirm things rather than deny them? Don't we owe their experiences the same validation?
> 
> There is a logic breakdown from I'm-not-gettin-laid to FA's-don't-exist.
> 
> I say this despite the fact that I find it hard to find what I'm looking for, myself, short or long-term. I get exasperated and frustrated. But honestly, I don't have any 41-y-o friend who doesn't, fat or thin. With all the perils and foibles of this place, one thing it's always provided me with is hope. Not to mention, although I have made some romantic connections here (spread out very much over the course of 10 years), and I love seeing people meet and love each other through this site, I have always figured my chances were better outside of here, and so they've proven to be. This is where I come to recharge my batteries, not provide my everything. It's alluring to think it can (oh golly is it), but I'm just not sure that's how the whole thing works overall.
> 
> I have nothing but empathy for the where-are-the-FAs discussion. I have the same thoughts everyone else does: I sometimes wish FAs were equipped with pink hats by law so there wouldn't be one more thread about how "there are no FAs/BBWs in _______" and so it'd be easier to know what stranger to lurch up to in public and see if you got along. That'd fuckin rock. I think we have a hard row to hoe, fat people, and there are really few things to compare it to, socially, especially as a single person. But somehow...I think the challenge life provides us is the challenge life provides everyone, just more ratcheted up. I know that whenever I start wishin for the pink hats it's kind of a sign of something else goin on. *Nobody* gets pink hats.
> 
> That article lacks context and balance, just as discussions do here sometimes, I think. I'm sure this does too, although I tried. All I can say is that I've been listening to Edx talk about likin fat chicks for 10 years...I refuse to believe that there's just one dude in Ottawa waving that flag .
> 
> (p.s. _SFWeekly_ has made gallons of $ over the years from fattie advertising, not to mention a gizillion wacky features about fat burlesque and Says Who? and Marilyn Wann..they know people like fat chix. They just gave a forum to one of their own, here.)



It might have a bit to do with the fact that of the 1500 men who hang on this board possibly 60 of them post, 45 are nice FA's while the rest are slinking around on the paysite board cloaked and anonymous. With those odds it kills me that people are surprised at the public perception that FA's are closet freaks. I'd love to be all sweet and cuddly about the thing but the bottom line is the fine upstanding FA's are outnumbered. Grossly outnumbered. This doesn't diminish who you are as a good person but I'm in a place right now where I'm about sick from the liberal sugar coating that we seem to enjoy here in this insular bubble we call Dimensions. Yay for the silver lining but lets not kid ourselves.


----------



## LoveBHMS

LillyBBBW said:


> It might have a bit to do with the fact that of the 1500 men who hang on this board possibly 60 of them post, 45 are nice FA's while the rest are slinking around on the paysite board cloaked and anonymous. With those odds it kills me that people are surprised at the public perception that FA's are closet freaks. I'd love to be all sweet and cuddly about the thing but the bottom line is the fine upstanding FA's are outnumbered. Grossly outnumbered. This doesn't diminish who you are as a good person but I'm in a place right now where I'm about sick from the liberal sugar coating that we seem to enjoy here in this insular bubble we call Dimensions. Yay for the silver lining but lets not kid ourselves.



Lilly, I understand what you're saying, but do you think to some degree being on a size acceptance website is also somewhat an unusual situation? Sure men come here to look at the paysite board, but I'm not sure that makes them objectifying creeps any more than saying a man looking at Penthouse represents all heterosexuals.

That a guy may come here and look at adult oriented website pictures I don't think translates into being a freak in his daily life. Sometimes? Sure. But that's true of any man, or probably any person.


----------



## LillyBBBW

LoveBHMS said:


> Lilly, I understand what you're saying, but do you think to some degree being on a size acceptance website is also somewhat an unusual situation? Sure men come here to look at the paysite board, but I'm not sure that makes them objectifying creeps any more than saying a man looking at Penthouse represents all heterosexuals.
> 
> That a guy may come here and look at adult oriented website pictures I don't think translates into being a freak in his daily life. Sometimes? Sure. But that's true of any man, or probably any person.



I would love to be a 'glass half full' girl today but I just don't have the energy. I would suggest taking a few pictures of yourself, morphing them to about 400 pounds and posting them in your profile. Give it a year and the picture may come into clearer focus for you and you'll know what I mean.


----------



## Spanky

LillyBBBW said:


> I would love to be a 'glass half full' girl today but I just don't have the energy. I would suggest taking a few pictures of yourself, morphing them to about 400 pounds and posting them in your profile. Give it a year and the picture may come into clearer focus for you and you'll know what I mean.



Boy, Lilly, I agree with what you are saying. The one main reason that FAs have much less to complain about is that we are not noticeable. If you are fat, especially a fat woman, society sees that everyday and reacts to it someway, good , bad or invisible. FAs blend in, no one looks at me or any other and sees a preference. 

I hope anything I said didn't come off as complaining. I can only imagine that sometimes it can be a struggle and one that I only can understand through your eyes (and other ladies on the boards).


----------



## LillyBBBW

Spanky said:


> Boy, Lilly, I agree with what you are saying. The one main reason that FAs have much less to complain about is that we are not noticeable. If you are fat, especially a fat woman, society sees that everyday and reacts to it someway, good , bad or invisible. FAs blend in, no one looks at me or any other and sees a preference.
> 
> I hope anything I said didn't come off as complaining. I can only imagine that sometimes it can be a struggle and one that I only can understand through your eyes (and other ladies on the boards).



Thanks Spanky. While I don't agree with the broad brush the author uses to paint all FA's, I would be lying if I said I didn't full well understand the energy behind what makes her feel as she does and think the way she does. I know a little bit better than she does but I can't blame her. Some of the whiney posts from FA's on this board at times make me seriously consider becoming a lesbian. Really, I wish I was.


----------



## altered states

It's never been settled here in Dimensionsland as to whether fat "admiration" is a fetish or not. For me it's both - I'm attracted to fat women in general, and I also fetishize their fat, weight gain, and other aspects that don't pertain to the women themselves, in decidedly non-sexual situations. 

It's important to distinguish between the psychological definition of fetishism - the displacement of sexual arousal or gratification to a fetish - and how we picture fetishists based on media stereotypes. There are non-fetishists who have lousy social skills, poor hygiene, look like gnomes, live with their moms, etc. And the reverse is true - I don't fit any of these characteristics and I consider myself a fetishist. The fetishists who do fit this characterization perhaps are fetishists because of these factors. Or maybe they've taken on these characteristics because their fetish has taken over their lives. Or maybe one has nothing to do with the other - they happen to be obsessed with fat, and they happen to be creeps. 

Yeah, I object to the tone of this excerpt, but I check myself with the knowledge that fat women themselves have been mischaracterized in this exact way a million times more. Enough times at least that a woman who seems to be reasonably happy, intelligent, socially adept, engaged, accomplished, and healthy is going to undergo voluntary surgery with a 10% death rate for the chance at fitting in with, uh, normal society.


----------



## LoveBHMS

tres huevos said:


> It's never been settled here in Dimensionsland as to whether fat "admiration" is a fetish or not. For me it's both - I'm attracted to fat women in general, and I also fetishize their fat, weight gain, and other aspects that don't pertain to the women themselves, in decidedly non-sexual situations.
> 
> It's important to distinguish between the psychological definition of fetishism - the displacement of sexual arousal or gratification to a fetish - and how we picture fetishists based on media stereotypes. There are non-fetishists who have lousy social skills, poor hygiene, look like gnomes, live with their moms, etc. And the reverse is true - I don't fit any of these characteristics and I consider myself a fetishist. The fetishists who do fit this characterization perhaps are fetishists because of these factors. Or maybe they've taken on these characteristics because their fetish has taken over their lives. Or maybe one has nothing to do with the other - they happen to be obsessed with fat, and they happen to be creeps.
> 
> Yeah, I object to the tone of this excerpt, but I check myself with the knowledge that fat women themselves have been mischaracterized in this exact way a million times more. Enough times at least that a woman who seems to be reasonably happy, intelligent, socially adept, engaged, accomplished, and healthy is going to undergo voluntary surgery with a 10% death rate for the chance at fitting in with, uh, normal society.



In response to your post.

For some men, fat _is_ a fetish. They can not get sexually aroused unless they are with a fat woman. They just plain need it. For others, they may find fat women attractive, but they can also get attracted to thin women. The fat is more of an aesthetic issue than a sexual one.

Being obsessed with fat does not make you a creep. Having a fetish does not make you a creep. you can be obsessed with fat and either be, or not be a creep.

As far as WLS, i think it is unfair to quantify it. It is certainly unfair to say that people have it to "fit in" in the same way they might buy a certain brand of purse or shoes or jeans. In many cases, the likelihood that the patient will die of a comorbidity of obesity is greater than the 1 in 200 likelihood that s/he will die from the surgery. Those in this community who have posted about it have said their health and well being was compromised.


----------



## EtobicokeFA

LillyBBBW said:


> Thanks Spanky. While I don't agree with the broad brush the author uses to paint all FA's, I would be lying if I said I didn't full well understand the energy behind what makes her feel as she does and think the way she does. I know a little bit better than she does but I can't blame her. Some of the whiney posts from FA's on this board at times make me seriously consider becoming a lesbian. Really, I wish I was.



And, also make some guys, embarrassed for their own gender.


----------



## LillyBBBW

FA is a bit more ambiguous in that being an FA bears no physical characteristics. Fat ladies loath the stereotype of the fat smelly woman with dirty feet who wears the same Mickey Mouse sweatshirt to WalMart every day. Most of us don't want to be that woman. At least there is enough evidence that not all fatties are like that but with an FA, you don't know he's an FA unless he tells you or gives himself away. In either case, 90% of the time it is revealed in some crass manner or they're caught doing something they shouldn't be doing and usually BBW's who bear the honors of seeing it most. For many women these encounters constitute the majority of their interactions with FA, at least to their knowledge. The others blend in with the crowd smiling politely, admiring your ass when you turn your back and then denying they're FA's 'cause they like other chicks too.  That's a real heart warmer there. 

Sorry y'all, I'm just in a bitter bitchy mood this year apparently.


----------



## Paul Delacroix

You know, I should be offended by this, but I'm not. FAs have image problems..largely concomitant to how we are represented in size acceptance.

To be honest? A lot of it is deserved. But what nobody understands is that self-perpetuating stereotypes are still stereotypes.

The FA image problem could be fixed if size acceptance were larger and more powerful...but it isn't.


----------



## RedVelvet

LillyBBBW said:


> FA is a bit more ambiguous in that being an FA bears no physical characteristics. Fat ladies loath the stereotype of the fat smelly woman with dirty feet who wears the same Mickey Mouse sweatshirt to WalMart every day. Most of us don't want to be that woman. At least there is enough evidence that not all fatties are like that but with an FA, you don't know he's an FA unless he tells you or gives himself away. In either case, 90% of the time it is revealed in some crass manner or they're caught doing something they shouldn't be doing and usually BBW's who bear the honors of seeing it most. For many women these encounters constitute the majority of their interactions with FA, at least to their knowledge. The others blend in with the crowd smiling politely, admiring your ass when you turn your back and then denying they're FA's 'cause they like other chicks too.  That's a real heart warmer there.
> 
> Sorry y'all, I'm just in a bitter bitchy mood this year apparently.





:kiss2::kiss2::kiss2::kiss2:


My inner bitch kisses yours.


Add to above with the statements of FAs who say that they LOVE sloppiness and laziness and huffing and puffing and all the things most women fear and loathe and do everything in our power to avoid.....and it just gets them going...oh baby!


Gah........never knew..never knew...

My real world life, again...has been filled with really positive experiences with men who like larger women....of course these are guys who appreciate my particular brand of femininity...very girly, very dressed up....and healthy. And big. Also...my insides matter more than the outsides? Fantastic men.


Had to come *here* to meet men who are fucking COMPELLED to share their fantasies about feeding a woman to immobility. Men who like the sloppy and the lazy and self distructive....panting and wheezing and sweating and bursting out of clothing and breaking furniture and ISNT THAT HOT??!?!?!?!.CAN I FUCK YOUR FOLDS PLEASE?!?!?!?!?


Real eye opener, that....but even more disturbing is this unbelievably HOSTILE reaction to anyone who suggests that maybe that kind of stuff is..well...FUCKED UP, or hurtful. 

ALL fantasy is good fantasy.....I realize that is the motto here. 

And it seems that for every pot who wants to fuck someone's folds ..there seems to be a lid who likes to be fucked that way.(yeah...we like it SO MUCH....I mean..I have hidden clits everywhere, so fucking my tummy flab is just so..er.......oh baby oh baby..uh......yeah).. ....so..um..yay?

I guess I will never understand the dark side to this....will never see the eroticism in using appendage body parts as genital orifice replacements. Never understand someone who wants to get so fat their genitals don't even..function...to return to an infantile state. (a wish expressed recently on another thread)....and all this is somehow now tied up with Fat Admiration for me.....I am trying to keep it separate....realize its fetish....

But its hard...Gotta keep the fetish from the FA...or else its so mucked up for me I get rather blue.


God bless the healthy, rational, PERSON-LOVING-FIRST .....FA.


----------



## mossystate

Lilly and RveeJ just made me orgasm.


----------



## Spanky

RedVelvet said:


> :kiss2::kiss2::kiss2::kiss2:
> 
> 
> My inner bitch kisses yours.
> 
> 
> Add to above with the statements of FAs who say that they LOVE sloppiness and laziness and huffing and puffing and all the things most women fear and loathe and do everything in our power to avoid.....and it just gets them going...oh baby!
> 
> 
> Gah........never knew..never knew...
> 
> My real world life, again...has been filled with really positive experiences with men who like larger women....of course these are guys who appreciate my particular brand of femininity...very girly, very dressed up....and healthy. And big. Also...my insides matter more than the outsides? Fantastic men.
> 
> 
> Had to come *here* to meet men who are fucking COMPELLED to share their fantasies about feeding a woman to immobility. Men who like the sloppy and the lazy and self distructive....panting and wheezing and sweating and bursting out of clothing and breaking furniture and ISNT THAT HOT??!?!?!?!.CAN I FUCK YOUR FOLDS PLEASE?!?!?!?!?
> 
> 
> Real eye opener, that....but even more disturbing is this unbelievably HOSTILE reaction to anyone who suggests that maybe that kind of stuff is..well...FUCKED UP, or hurtful.
> 
> ALL fantasy is good fantasy.....I realize that is the motto here.
> 
> And it seems that for every pot who wants to fuck someone's folds ..there seems to be a lid who likes to be fucked that way.(yeah...we like it SO MUCH....I mean..I have hidden clits everywhere, so fucking my tummy flab is just so..er.......oh baby oh baby..uh......yeah).. ....so..um..yay?
> 
> I guess I will never understand the dark side to this....will never see the eroticism in using appendage body parts as genital orifice replacements. Never understand someone who wants to get so fat their genitals don't even..function...to return to an infantile state. (a wish expressed recently on another thread)....and all this is somehow now tied up with Fat Admiration for me.....I am trying to keep it separate....realize its fetish....
> 
> But its hard...Gotta keep the fetish from the FA...or else its so mucked up for me I get rather blue.
> 
> 
> God bless the healthy, rational, PERSON-LOVING-FIRST .....FA.




All of that was just so good, RV. :bow::bow::bow::bow:


I'll PM you about the punctuation later.


----------



## TraciJo67

mossystate said:


> Lilly and RveeJ just made me orgasm.



Was it clitoral or vaginal?


----------



## Wagimawr

orgasm of the HEART <3<3<3


----------



## Paul Delacroix

RedVelvet said:


> ALL fantasy is good fantasy.....I realize that is the motto here.
> 
> And it seems that for every pot who wants to fuck someone's folds ..there seems to be a lid who likes to be fucked that way.(yeah...we like it SO MUCH....I mean..I have hidden clits everywhere, so fucking my tummy flab is just so..er.......oh baby oh baby..uh......yeah).. ....so..um..yay?



Not necessarily. You may be reading the comments of a second FA 'fantasist' who is pretending to be a woman. There's lots of crossdressing on here.


----------



## RedVelvet

Spanky said:


> All of that was just so good, RV. :bow::bow::bow::bow:
> 
> 
> I'll PM you about the punctuation later.





I have an elipses problem in general...and type and punctuate poorly when writing quickly.

Meanwhile....eff you.


----------



## RedVelvet

Paul Delacroix said:


> Not necessarily. You may be reading the comments of a second FA 'fantasist' who is pretending to be a woman. There's lots of crossdressing on here.



THATS easier for me to believe that there is a woman who claims to get off on having her belly button poked at as much as her hoochie..(yes, I have seen it...HERE, folks!)....

I mean...maybe..sure.....ok....but wow...interesting body you have there.


Good point, Paul.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Paul Delacroix said:


> You know, I should be offended by this, but I'm not. FAs have image problems..largely concomitant to how we are represented in size acceptance.
> 
> To be honest? A lot of it is deserved. But what nobody understands is that self-perpetuating stereotypes are still stereotypes.
> 
> The FA image problem could be fixed if size acceptance were larger and more powerful...but it isn't.



And I agree with this - to a point.

There are an awful lot of fat women who find dating an FA offensive and in some ways they perpetuate the "FA's are freaks and fetishists" crap that I keep hearing and just hate!

FA's are not freaks - I'm married to a lifelong FA and I know you pretty well Paul - and you and Wayne are NOT freaks not by a long shot. The whole -"I wanna be loved for who I am - not what I look like" bull gets old after you've heard women lament that for the millionth time.  Men are visual creatures - big deal. I never understood what was so wrong with a man LOVING my body - the rest of the world tells me I'm disgusting - FA's tell me I'm sexy - THANK GOD!!

The truth is - after being in the NAAFA/Dimensions circles for almost 20 years I know what the truth is:

"FA's are just like average guys - except they like fat women." PERIOD. No more no less. It really is that simple. Are there freak FA's? Absolutely! But there are freaks everywhere.

I wish people in general could just see that FA's and fat women are just normal. I'm exhausted by it all.


----------



## mossystate

TraciJo67 said:


> Was it clitoral or vaginal?




Belly hang...of course...


----------



## RedVelvet

mossystate said:


> Belly hang...of course...




Everyone knows only a belly hang orgasm is a REAL WOMANs orgasm...

Those immature clitoral types are so so SAD.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

> And it seems that for every pot who wants to fuck someone's folds ..there seems to be a lid who likes to be fucked that way.(yeah...we like it SO MUCH....I mean..I have hidden clits everywhere, so fucking my tummy flab is just so..er.......oh baby oh baby..uh......yeah).. ....so..um..yay?



What is wrong with fat fucking? Have you done it? If you are with an FA - fat fucking is pleasurable to him - so what's wrong with that? Who is it hurting? Is it any more offensive than anal sex?? 

I don't get it.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

RedVelvet said:


> Everyone knows only a belly hang orgasm is a REAL WOMANs orgasm...
> 
> Those immature clitoral types are so so SAD.



Look - making fun of different ways people have sex is not productive or nice. You don't like it - don't do it.

I dated a guy who wanted me to pee on him. In comparison fat fucking is pretty tame. IMO


----------



## RedVelvet

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> The whole -"I wanna be loved for who I am - not what I look like" bull gets old after you've heard women lament that for the millionth time.  Men are visual creatures - big deal. I never understood what was so wrong with a man LOVING my body - the rest of the world tells me I'm disgusting - FA's tell me I'm sexy - THANK GOD!!





I call middle ground here.


Of course men are visual...I don't begrudge them that at all. AND....I really dig being thought of as beautiful and being affirmed in that way.

Just trying to say that the INTENSE and relentless focus on looks is ALSO exhausting.

I'm greedy..I want it all.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

But RV - I get that. And I get both from Wayne. But my skinny girlfriends complain about the very same thing. This is not an FA thing - by any means. That's all I'm saying. 





RedVelvet said:


> I call middle ground here.
> 
> 
> Of course men are visual...I don't begrudge them that at all. AND....I really dig being thought of as beautiful and being affirmed in that way.
> 
> Just trying to say that the INTENSE and relentless focus on looks is ALSO exhausting.
> 
> I'm greedy..I want it all.


----------



## RedVelvet

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Look - making fun of different ways people have sex is not productive or nice. You don't like it - don't do it.
> 
> I dated a guy who wanted me to pee on him. In comparison fat fucking is pretty tame. IMO




Hmm...


I would reverse that. Peeing on someone is pretty tame to me.

and fat fucking isnt anything other than baffling to me.

also..I wasnt making fun of ANYONE. I was expressing my bafflement with the arousal to it...saying I dont understand it.

I get to say that, right? I see people here all the time saying that BDSM is something they will NEVER understand....I dont take offense to that..and I dont think they are making fun of me, either.


----------



## Paul Delacroix

RedVelvet said:


> THATS easier for me to believe that there is a woman who claims to get off on having her belly button poked at as much as her hoochie..(yes, I have seen it...HERE, folks!)....
> 
> I mean...maybe..sure.....ok....but wow...interesting body you have there.
> 
> 
> Good point, Paul.



Well, I have been associated with being an FA for a long time and I'll be the first to admit it: *We have a horrible image.* And a lot of it is self-inflicted. 

I think there are huge numbers of great guys out there who are FAs, but most of them have probably never heard of the term "FA". The internet FA seems to be gradually getting more and more twisted, like the Picture of Dorian Gray.

I stopped being a BBW artist for a long time because I didn't like the image. Hence a lot of folks on this board probably don't even know that I am a BBW pinup artist. I haven't had any desire to advertise it. I still don't for the most part. I am doing new material, but don't self-promote it. I've never been a good self-promoter, anyway. 

The main thing is--I'm sure I'd be wildly popular on here if I drew 900-pound women with bellies that ooze out on the floor, eating 6-layer cakes with each hand. 

My 280 pound wood nymphs and women riding on bicycles are, I'm sure, quite boring by comparison to what seems to be the mainstream Internet FA audience.


----------



## mossystate

It's like the premise of the movie Deep Throat. While I have invited in, while I am in complete control of the situation, a man, I do not have a clitoris in my mouth and the obssesion and harm that came from that movie showed how a human being can be viewed as...parts.

Nothing ' wrong ' with mouth or body parts..play....just.....see the woman connected to those parts...I think that's the point.


----------



## RedVelvet

Paul Delacroix said:


> Well, I have been associated with being an FA for a long time and I'll be the first to admit it: *We have a horrible image.* And a lot of it is self-inflicted.
> 
> I think there are huge numbers of great guys out there who are FAs, but most of them have probably never heard of the term "FA". The internet FA seems to be gradually getting more and more twisted, like the Picture of Dorian Gray.
> 
> I stopped being a BBW artist for a long time because I didn't like the image. Hence a lot of folks on this board probably don't even know that I am a BBW pinup artist. I haven't had any desire to advertise it. I still don't for the most part. I am doing new material, but don't self-promote it. I've never been a good self-promoter, anyway.
> 
> The main thing is--I'm sure I'd be wildly popular on here if I drew 900-pound women with bellies that ooze out on the floor, eating 6-layer cakes with each hand.
> 
> My 280 pound wood nymphs and women on riding on bicycles are, I'm sure, quite boring by comparison to what seems to be the mainstream Internet FA audience.



a shame...I would dig your nymph.


I think what you just said reaffirms my own feelings.

Real world vs. Internet.......

I'll take the real world...please!!


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Of course you get to say what you want - we all do. But some of your posts about it seemed to be making fun of it - if you weren't I apologize.

Fat fucking is just another way of showing he loves your body. It really is no big deal and no more a perversion than BDSM - in fact I think it's a mild perversion. Some guys like to fuck tits - foot fetishist like to fuck your feet - and etc., etc.

Whatever floats your boat is how I see it. 





RedVelvet said:


> Hmm...
> 
> 
> I would reverse that. Peeing on someone is pretty tame to me.
> 
> and fat fucking isnt anything other than baffling to me.
> 
> also..I wasnt making fun of ANYONE. I was expressing my bafflement with the arousal to it...saying I dont understand it.
> 
> I get to say that, right? I see people here all the time saying that BDSM is something they will NEVER understand....I dont take offense to that..and I dont think they are making fun of me, either.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

RedVelvet said:


> a shame...I would dig your nymph.
> 
> 
> I think what you just said reaffirms my own feelings.
> 
> Real world vs. Internet.......
> 
> I'll take the real world...please!!



His work is so beautiful RV - I have some if you want to see!


----------



## TraciJo67

mossystate said:


> Belly hang...of course...



It's back to the Loch with ye, Nessie!


----------



## RedVelvet

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Of course you get to say what you want - we all do. But some of your posts about it seemed to be making fun of it - if you weren't I apologize.
> 
> Fat fucking is just another way of showing he loves your body. It really is no big deal and no more a perversion than BDSM - in fact I think it's a mild perversion. Some guys like to fuck tits - foot fetishist like to fuck your feet - and etc., etc.
> 
> Whatever floats your boat is how I see it.



Cool beans....I think we are on the same page.



Of course...you have a more generous stance than I do...I find tit fucks annoying and absolutely neutral in pleasure.....so there is MY bias showing.

Your perspective on him loving your body and fat fucking as a way of expressing that is a good one....on the opposite side.....I tend to see it as....well...USING my body as a masturbatory tool, given that I get almost NO pleasure in the act, myself.

Which of us is right? prolly both.....depends on the lover, no?


----------



## imfree

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> And I agree with this - to a point.
> 
> There are an awful lot of fat women who find dating an FA offensive and in some ways they perpetuate the "FA's are freaks and fetishists" crap that I keep hearing and just hate!
> 
> FA's are not freaks - I'm married to a lifelong FA and I know you pretty well Paul - and you and Wayne are NOT freaks not by a long shot. The whole -"I wanna be loved for who I am - not what I look like" bull gets old after you've heard women lament that for the millionth time.  Men are visual creatures - big deal. I never understood what was so wrong with a man LOVING my body - the rest of the world tells me I'm disgusting - FA's tell me I'm sexy - THANK GOD!!
> 
> The truth is - after being in the NAAFA/Dimensions circles for almost 20 years I know what the truth is:
> 
> "FA's are just like average guys - except they like fat women." PERIOD. No more no less. It really is that simple. Are there freak FA's? Absolutely! But there are freaks everywhere.
> 
> I wish people in general could just see that FA's and fat women are just normal. I'm exhausted by it all.



That pretty well says it, thanks Sandie.


----------



## Wagimawr

RedVelvet said:


> depends on the lover, no?


Exactly - for every woman that likes deep conversations and hates titfucking, there's a guy who loooooooooooooooves boobies and could care less about chatting (the roll-over-and-sleep type).

Just another affirmation of "everybody's different".


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

RedVelvet said:


> Of course...you have a more generous stance than I do...I find tit fucks annoying and absolutely neutral in pleasure.....so there is MY bias showing.



I don't like tit fucks either. 



> Your perspective on him loving your body and fat fucking as a way of expressing that is a good one....on the opposite side.....I tend to see it as....well...USING my body as a masturbatory tool, given that I get almost NO pleasure in the act, myself.



Does giving the man you love pleasure? That's why I enjoy it - it gives him pleasure. He gives me what I like. 



> Which of us is right? prolly both.....depends on the lover, no?



Absolutely depends on the lover.


----------



## Shosh

I must be the most boring person in the world, because I prefer your regular, garden variety lovemaking.

Golden showers? No.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

For Red Velvet and other's who have not seen Paul's artwork:

I love this one - she's Bambina - I think she looks like me (as does Paul) 











This is another I love:


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist

Yay for sexually stifled American culture!!!

Graphic, so bear with me. It's for a POINT.

Someone might like a rollfuck for the same reason I like a titfuck. It won't bring me to orgasm. I like the position of a male lover and seeing his stomach, and still being able to look at his face and feel connected and with him. It's friction, therefore interesting. With fatfucking, you are almost certainly getting another perspective of your partner. Unlikely to bring you to orgasm, but worth trying.


----------



## TraciJo67

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> What is wrong with fat fucking? Have you done it? If you are with an FA - fat fucking is pleasurable to him - so what's wrong with that? Who is it hurting? Is it any more offensive than anal sex??
> 
> I don't get it.



Sandie, I don't see anything inherently wrong with it ... it's not my thing, never has been, never will be (I'm more into mutual pleasure ... and fucking my folds is a sure way to induce a semi-comatose 'lemme count the tiles in the ceiling while you do your thing' yawn-a-thon in me) ... but I don't call "perv" on people who enjoy it. It's harmless fun between two consenting adults. 

Point being, it's behavior that is being *engaged* in ... rather than something that is being foisted upon you by a complete stranger. Some of the behaviors displayed here, by men who call themselves FA's, are .... frankly, astonishing. 
And yeah, I'm also referring to the stray PMs that find their way into my inbox from people who obviously know NOTHING about me (i.e., they don't post on the message board or bother to read my profile) ... and yet, they'd still love to feed me ... and how much do I weigh, by the way, because they can't tell from my photo ... and am I open to gaining? Coz don't you know ... it's all about the fat ... and let's cut right to the chase, eh?


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Oh I understand that Tracy. I used to get those PM's too. I don't anymore and I'm glad. But my favorites were the erect penis pics - by men who have nothing to be proud of ya know? lol I usually sent them back with the comment:

"Now why would you want to show me your short comings?"

I also agree there are some disturbing things here lately. I just choose not to get upset by it. It doesn't effect me. And there are so many good guys here - they make up for the icky stuff. IMHO 





TraciJo67 said:


> Sandie, I don't see anything inherently wrong with it ... it's not my thing, never has been, never will be (I'm more into mutual pleasure ... and fucking my folds is a sure way to induce a semi-comatose 'lemme count the tiles in the ceiling while you do your thing' yawn-a-thon in me) ... but I don't call "perv" on people who enjoy it. It's harmless fun between two consenting adults.
> 
> Point being, it's behavior that is being *engaged* in ... rather than something that is being foisted upon you by a complete stranger. Some of the behaviors displayed here, by men who call themselves FA's, are .... frankly, astonishing.
> And yeah, I'm also referring to the stray PMs that find their way into my inbox from people who obviously know NOTHING about me (i.e., they don't post on the message board or bother to read my profile) ... and yet, they'd still love to feed me ... and how much do I weigh, by the way, because they can't tell from my photo ... and am I open to gaining? Coz don't you know ... it's all about the fat ... and let's cut right to the chase, eh?


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Excellent point! 




TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Yay for sexually stifled American culture!!!
> 
> Graphic, so bear with me. It's for a POINT.
> 
> Someone might like a rollfuck for the same reason I like a titfuck. It won't bring me to orgasm. I like the position of a male lover and seeing his stomach, and still being able to look at his face and feel connected and with him. It's friction, therefore interesting. With fatfucking, you are almost certainly getting another perspective of your partner. Unlikely to bring you to orgasm, but worth trying.


----------



## RedVelvet

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I
> 
> Does giving the man you love pleasure? That's why I enjoy it - it gives him pleasure. He gives me what I like.




I'd rather give him a world class blow job....

ha.

(of course...I know what he likes...)


----------



## TraciJo67

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Oh I understand that Tracy. I used to get those PM's too. I don't anymore and I'm glad. But my favorites were the erect penis pics - by men who have nothing to be proud of ya know? lol I usually sent them back with the comment:
> 
> "Now why would you want to show me your short comings?"
> 
> I also agree there are some disturbing things here lately. I just choose not to get upset by it. It doesn't effect me. And there are so many good guys here - they make up for the icky stuff. IMHO



Damn it, I've never received stray erect penis pics. Maybe ... I'm just bitter 

FRANTIC ETA: Not that I'm inviting them. Irony. IRONY!!


----------



## Paul Delacroix

TraciJo67 said:


> And yeah, I'm also referring to the stray PMs that find their way into my inbox from people who obviously know NOTHING about me (i.e., they don't post on the message board or bother to read my profile) ... and yet, they'd still love to feed me ... and how much do I weigh, by the way, because they can't tell from my photo ... and am I open to gaining?



"What are your weight gain goals?" LOL. Reading that one after a woman posts a plump picture always cracks me up. Like there's a weight chart up on a wall in the locker room.


----------



## RedVelvet

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Yay for sexually stifled American culture!!!
> 
> Graphic, so bear with me. It's for a POINT.
> 
> Someone might like a rollfuck for the same reason I like a titfuck. It won't bring me to orgasm. I like the position of a male lover and seeing his stomach, and still being able to look at his face and feel connected and with him. It's friction, therefore interesting. With fatfucking, you are almost certainly getting another perspective of your partner. Unlikely to bring you to orgasm, but worth trying.




Baby..there ain't much I haven't tried....you know? Thats how I GOT my opinions!

I still prefer mutual pleasure..(like me giving him a blowjob) rather than enduring something strictly for his pleasure....call me selfish..but there we are.


----------



## mossystate

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Yay for sexually stifled American culture!!!
> 
> Graphic, so bear with me. It's for a POINT.
> 
> Someone might like a rollfuck for the same reason I like a titfuck. It won't bring me to orgasm. I like the position of a male lover and seeing his stomach, and still being able to look at his face and feel connected and with him. It's friction, therefore interesting. With fatfucking, you are almost certainly getting another perspective of your partner. Unlikely to bring you to orgasm, but worth trying.



Of course..and as I felt in the crosshairs of that comment about " sexually stifled American culture"..again...all fine and good..unless it has one person pretty much...erased...otherwise....fuck away!


----------



## LillyBBBW

Paul Delacroix said:


> Not necessarily. You may be reading the comments of a second FA 'fantasist' who is pretending to be a woman. There's lots of crossdressing on here.



In this case she was reading my comments, a real live woman with an interesting body.


----------



## RedVelvet

Susannah said:


> I must be the most boring person in the world, because I prefer your regular, garden variety lovemaking.
> 
> Golden showers? No.



eh...me neither...but I like a LOT of stuff that I have been told is degrading to women, etc..

Me...I am all about the lack of PERMANENT harm...and mutual pleasure....so....if it doesnt permanently alter someone's body, or hurt their health, and if it brings pleasure to both, rather than only one...I can probably get behind it.

Or in front...or underneath.


----------



## T_Devil

After reading that excerpt and some of the responses, I think I'm just going to hang it up on being an outspoken FA. We're freaks and just horrible people. Maybe Kirsty Ally was right, I don't know.

All I do know is that it really sucks being a way that you didn't ask to be. To prefer a certain someone and not know exactly why. I just know I'm married to a great woman who accepts me for all of my faults and excentricities. God only knows I'll have to kill myself if I ever lost her.

I know I'm weird. I know I'm odd. I know I'm different.

I never asked to be this way though, and if I could change it.... well after reading this article and some of these responses... I don't know if I would change it or not. I'm just not sure, not anymore. I mean, if all I'm ever going to be is labeled as some find of freak, then is there any place for me in society? Will anybody ever love me for me? Does anyone really accept me the way that I am now? I question a lot of things now, and the conculsions I'm forced to deal with are disheartening.

I know there are some real loser FA's out there and it sucks that they are the ones that everybody and the world rest their convictions on, and that's really a god damned shame because it's being prejudiced on so many different levels. Now, come to learn that we are seen as so repulsive that we make women consider WLS because of it? And just when I thought we were doing so well.

I know I'm tired of it. I'm tired of the lable, the stigma, the general disdaine and misunderstanding that is caused by a bunch of sloppy cocks that are only interested in one thing. It's bullshit. But what can be done about it? The decent ones tend not to speak up and if they do they are seen as the freeks that society has masked them to be.

Ok, some of those assholes are objectifying, big fucking deal. It's reality, we all live in it and it's something we will all share until we die. It's not going to change because people seldomly ever change.... well, habitualy anyways. Humans are creatures of habit and one of those habits is knee-jerk reactions to things they are conditioned to have a negative perspective towards.

I've been trying to change that and I've been standing by people that I believed were putting things in the right direction. Have I been backing the wrong people? is it better to live a lie and in a constant state of unhappiness. From the looks of things, appears so.

I know, I'm probobly over-reacting like I always do. I know I'm over-reacting. But that feeling just won't go away though. Now I'm going to think twice about wearing my favorite shirts out in public now. My _Dumptruck_ shirts and my _I *heart* fat chicks_ shirts. I feel like I should just throw them out now because I'm not only portraying myself as this predatory sexual deviant that is only intersted in one depraved thing, I feel as though I'm also objectifying fat women everywhere.

It's not pride I feel, it's shame. Shame that I can't be who I am.... a guy who is happy that he finds fat girls attractive. Shame that I am seen through the eyes of prejudice and lies. Shame that people will write me off before they even get to know who I am. It sucks and I hate it, but what am I gonna do? Keep trying to turn it around? Why? What fucking difference does it make? Society sees me as some lonely skeeze that is "settling for less" of "not having quality standards", and I now see that there is a segment with my own constituancy that believes very same thing. 

What a bummer.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

RedVelvet said:


> I'd rather give him a world class blow job....
> 
> ha.
> 
> (of course...I know what he likes...)





GIRL! You and me both!! But occasionally he wants something else. AOK with me!


----------



## RedVelvet

Yes...you are absolutely..and completely..overreacting.

Egads...thats all you see? Alors!








T_Devil said:


> After reading that excerpt and some of the responses, I think I'm just going to hang it up on being an outspoken FA. We're freaks and just horrible people. Maybe Kirsty Ally was right, I don't know.
> 
> All I do know is that it really sucks being a way that you didn't ask to be. To prefer a certain someone and not know exactly why. I just know I'm married to a great woman who accepts me for all of my faults and excentricities. God only knows I'll have to kill myself if I ever lost her.
> 
> I know I'm weird. I know I'm odd. I know I'm different.
> 
> I never asked to be this way though, and if I could change it.... well after reading this article and some of these responses... I don't know if I would change it or not. I'm just not sure, not anymore. I mean, if all I'm ever going to be is labeled as some find of freak, then is there any place for me in society? Will anybody ever love me for me? Does anyone really accept me the way that I am now? I question a lot of things now, and the conculsions I'm forced to deal with are disheartening.
> 
> I know there are some real loser FA's out there and it sucks that they are the ones that everybody and the world rest their convictions on, and that's really a god damned shame because it's being prejudiced on so many different levels. Now, come to learn that we are seen as so repulsive that we make women consider WLS because of it? And just when I thought we were doing so well.
> 
> I know I'm tired of it. I'm tired of the lable, the stigma, the general disdaine and misunderstanding that is caused by a bunch of sloppy cocks that are only interested in one thing. It's bullshit. But what can be done about it? The decent ones tend not to speak up and if they do they are seen as the freeks that society has masked them to be.
> 
> Ok, some of those assholes are objectifying, big fucking deal. It's reality, we all live in it and it's something we will all share until we die. It's not going to change because people seldomly ever change.... well, habitualy anyways. Humans are creatures of habit and one of those habits is knee-jerk reactions to things they are conditioned to have a negative perspective towards.
> 
> I've been trying to change that and I've been standing by people that I believed were putting things in the right direction. Have I been backing the wrong people? is it better to live a lie and in a constant state of unhappiness. From the looks of things, appears so.
> 
> I know, I'm probobly over-reacting like I always do. I know I'm over-reacting. But that feeling just won't go away though. Now I'm going to think twice about wearing my favorite shirts out in public now. My _Dumptruck_ shirts and my _I *heart* fat chicks_ shirts. I feel like I should just throw them out now because I'm not only portraying myself as this predatory sexual deviant that is only intersted in one depraved thing, I feel as though I'm also objectifying fat women everywhere.
> 
> It's not pride I feel, it's shame. Shame that I can't be who I am.... a guy who is happy that he finds fat girls attractive. Shame that I am seen through the eyes of prejudice and lies. Shame that people will write me off before they even get to know who I am. It sucks and I hate it, but what am I gonna do? Keep trying to turn it around? Why? What fucking difference does it make? Society sees me as some lonely skeeze that is "settling for less" of "not having quality standards", and I now see that there is a segment with my own constituancy that believes very same thing.
> 
> What a bummer.


----------



## Angel

Lilly, thank you for having the courage to post what so many of us feel. You have long been well known here at Dimensions so your voice is heard much louder than the quieter among us and louder than the not as well known among us. Your views, opinions, and experiences are seen as legitimate because of who you are and because of your status within the Dimensions community.

Some of us live in areas where there are no fat admirers. Some of us would have never encountered an FA in real life unless we had met them online first and then made the effort to travel hundreds of miles to meet them in person. In our reality or day to day life, there are no fat admirers within reach to cuddle with or to hug us. There are no local parties, meet-ups, or bashes. There is no endless line of fat admirers waiting for the chance to meet us in person, either. Most of the time our only contact with fat admirers is online. 

I didn't find the Dimensions online community until 2001. At that time I was 37 and had long been an ultrasized BBW. I had found my way to self acceptance as a fat woman on my own and without the support from a significant other, and without the support of family, fat admirers, or this community. I had never even heard of size acceptance, fat acceptance, or fat admirers. I knew who I was inside, though. I was comfortable with - and accepting of - who I was both inside and out.

I can attest to the fact that there are bad eggs in all walks of life. There are men who regardless of their personal preference or orientation will objectify, use, and / or abuse women. We know that this happens to both skinny women and to fat women. No size range is is an exception to, nor holds an exclusive entititlement to having experienced mistreatment.

That being said, not all fat admirers are bad eggs. There are some genuine nice respectful men in this community. Like our skinny sisters, we're also going to have to kiss a few frogs before meeting our handsome prince. 

We have each reached the point of life where we now exist on our own unique and very personal journey. We have all had different experiences in life and have had different experiences with men. Some of those experiences may -or may not- include bad experiences with fat admirers.

Let us not attempt to invalidate or make light of what someone else may have experienced, be it good or bad. A personal experience is just that, _personal_ and _unique_ to the individual relating the experience.

Let us also remember that there are those who lead double lives. They may treat you like a queen; but at the same time may be treating other women disrespectfully. Trust me, that does -and has- happened within this community. 

I think the reason this article has _stirred_ us so is because it brings to light different aspects that we wish didn't exist within the size acceptance or fat acceptance world. There are those who still secretly despise being fat. There are those who confuse admiration and respect with lust and objectification. There are those who can't differentiate between emotional feelings and physical needs. There are those who profess to love us, when in reality they only love the fat that is on our physical body. There are those of us who want to be loved and accepted for all that we are, and not only in spite of -or because that- we are fat. Many women are looking for one thing and men are wanting something else, but they both believe that they want the same. 

Many fat women (and fat men) find this community (a size accepting or fat acceptance site) and think that because they finally found others who desire them, that they will be treated with nothing but respect and admiration. After all, society _hates_ fat and here fat is _loved_ and _celebrated_. This must be the ultimate fat utopia we've always dreamed of! Eventually, though, our rose colored glasses are removed and we realize that this imagined utopia is very much like the real world after all.


----------



## TraciJo67

Susannah said:


> Golden showers? No.



Prude.

And, who are you to judge me?


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

TraciJo67 said:


> FRANTIC ETA: Not that I'm inviting them. Irony. IRONY!!




That was close!! LOL


----------



## EtobicokeFA

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> And I agree with this - to a point.
> 
> There are an awful lot of fat women who find dating an FA offensive and in some ways they perpetuate the "FA's are freaks and fetishists" crap that I keep hearing and just hate!
> 
> FA's are not freaks - I'm married to a lifelong FA and I know you pretty well Paul - and you and Wayne are NOT freaks not by a long shot. The whole -"I wanna be loved for who I am - not what I look like" bull gets old after you've heard women lament that for the millionth time.  Men are visual creatures - big deal. I never understood what was so wrong with a man LOVING my body - the rest of the world tells me I'm disgusting - FA's tell me I'm sexy - THANK GOD!!
> 
> The truth is - after being in the NAAFA/Dimensions circles for almost 20 years I know what the truth is:
> 
> "FA's are just like average guys - except they like fat women." PERIOD. No more no less. It really is that simple. Are there freak FA's? Absolutely! But there are freaks everywhere.
> 
> I wish people in general could just see that FA's and fat women are just normal. I'm exhausted by it all.



Well said!


----------



## Shosh

TraciJo67 said:


> Sandie, I don't see anything inherently wrong with it ... it's not my thing, never has been, never will be (I'm more into mutual pleasure ... and fucking my folds is a sure way to induce a semi-comatose 'lemme count the tiles in the ceiling while you do your thing' yawn-a-thon in me) ... but I don't call "perv" on people who enjoy it. It's harmless fun between two consenting adults.
> 
> Point being, it's behavior that is being *engaged* in ... rather than something that is being foisted upon you by a complete stranger. Some of the behaviors displayed here, by men who call themselves FA's, are .... frankly, astonishing.
> And yeah, I'm also referring to the stray PMs that find their way into my inbox from people who obviously know NOTHING about me (i.e., they don't post on the message board or bother to read my profile) ... and yet, they'd still love to feed me ... and how much do I weigh, by the way, because they can't tell from my photo ... and am I open to gaining? Coz don't you know ... it's all about the fat ... and let's cut right to the chase, eh?




Yes. I have had several guys here ask me if I would have my Lapband taken out so that I could gain etc etc. They said that if I loved my partner etc it would be a good thing to do. I have this band because I am sick meanwhile and had to lose. Is that not an important issue to consider? Don't wanna be skinny, but it was something I had to do.


----------



## Paul Delacroix

T_Devil said:


> After reading that excerpt and some of the responses, I think I'm just going to hang it up on being an outspoken FA. We're freaks and just horrible people. Maybe Kirsty Ally was right, I don't know.
> 
> All I do know is that it really sucks being a way that you didn't ask to be. To prefer a certain someone and not know exactly why. I just know I'm married to a great woman who accepts me for all of my faults and excentricities. God only knows I'll have to kill myself if I ever lost her.
> 
> I know I'm weird. I know I'm odd. I know I'm different.
> 
> I never asked to be this way though, and if I could change it.... well after reading this article and some of these responses... I don't know if I would change it or not. I'm just not sure, not anymore. I mean, if all I'm ever going to be is labeled as some find of freak, then is there any place for me in society? Will anybody ever love me for me? Does anyone really accept me the way that I am now? I question a lot of things now, and the conculsions I'm forced to deal with are disheartening.
> 
> I know there are some real loser FA's out there and it sucks that they are the ones that everybody and the world rest their convictions on, and that's really a god damned shame because it's being prejudiced on so many different levels. Now, come to learn that we are seen as so repulsive that we make women consider WLS because of it? And just when I thought we were doing so well.
> 
> I know I'm tired of it. I'm tired of the lable, the stigma, the general disdaine and misunderstanding that is caused by a bunch of sloppy cocks that are only interested in one thing. It's bullshit. But what can be done about it? The decent ones tend not to speak up and if they do they are seen as the freeks that society has masked them to be.
> 
> Ok, some of those assholes are objectifying, big fucking deal. It's reality, we all live in it and it's something we will all share until we die. It's not going to change because people seldomly ever change.... well, habitualy anyways. Humans are creatures of habit and one of those habits is knee-jerk reactions to things they are conditioned to have a negative perspective towards.
> 
> I've been trying to change that and I've been standing by people that I believed were putting things in the right direction. Have I been backing the wrong people? is it better to live a lie and in a constant state of unhappiness. From the looks of things, appears so.
> 
> I know, I'm probobly over-reacting like I always do. I know I'm over-reacting. But that feeling just won't go away though. Now I'm going to think twice about wearing my favorite shirts out in public now. My _Dumptruck_ shirts and my _I *heart* fat chicks_ shirts. I feel like I should just throw them out now because I'm not only portraying myself as this predatory sexual deviant that is only intersted in one depraved thing, I feel as though I'm also objectifying fat women everywhere.
> 
> It's not pride I feel, it's shame. Shame that I can't be who I am.... a guy who is happy that he finds fat girls attractive. Shame that I am seen through the eyes of prejudice and lies. Shame that people will write me off before they even get to know who I am. It sucks and I hate it, but what am I gonna do? Keep trying to turn it around? Why? What fucking difference does it make? Society sees me as some lonely skeeze that is "settling for less" of "not having quality standards", and I now see that there is a segment with my own constituancy that believes very same thing.
> 
> What a bummer.



Cheer up. The mainstream Hollywood anorexics with the fake breasts and the collagen lips are just as fetishistic, and less natural.

I think what I am complaining most about is that size acceptance is 99% dead, and we FAs never did even have a good image when it was alive and kicking. 

At some point we should consider doing it again; doing it RIGHT. We're better than this; fat women are beautiful, and the skinny female image is the one that requires brainwashing to relate to..not the natural beauty of the fat woman. In order to reinforce the idea that society considers fat women ugly, FAs must also be ugly, twisted little pervies who you wouldn't let your best friend date. 

We someday need another organization, one that deals with the body image issues directly, and places them at center stage...and for reinforcement of our normalcy, it ought to be an organization that also promotes healthy exercise for people of all sizes. The existing organizations are fine and dandy but we need something new and different.

Bear with me, folks. I make this speech every six months or so. Usually after at least a half dozen beers. I got myself shunned at at least one SA convention for talking this way.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Thanks Angel.  And for the record, I don't think my opinion or voice is more valid than anyone elses here. They're all just opinions and mine can be deemed crap just as well as anyone elses. I guess I'm just more inclined to be a "do something about it" kind of poster rather than a "look on the bright side" type. It comes off as being very negative at times which is why I'm sometimes hesitant to say anything at all. Only sometimes though.  




Angel said:


> Lilly, thank you for having the courage to post what so many of us feel. You have long been well known here at Dimensions so your voice is heard much louder than the quieter among us and louder than the not as well known among us. Your views, opinions, and experiences are seen as legitimate because of who you are and because of your status within the Dimensions community.
> 
> Some of us live in areas where there are no fat admirers. Some of us would have never encountered an FA in real life unless we had met them online first and then made the effort to travel hundreds of miles to meet them in person. In our reality or day to day life, there are no fat admirers within reach to cuddle with or to hug us. There are no local parties, meet-ups, or bashes. There is no endless line of fat admirers waiting for the chance to meet us in person, either. Most of the time our only contact with fat admirers is online.
> 
> I didn't find the Dimensions online community until 2001. At that time I was 37 and had long been an ultrasized BBW. I had found my way to self acceptance as a fat woman on my own and without the support from a significant other, and without the support of family, fat admirers, or this community. I had never even heard of size acceptance, fat acceptance, or fat admirers. I knew who I was inside, though. I was comfortable with - and accepting of - who I was both inside and out.
> 
> I can attest to the fact that there are bad eggs in all walks of life. There are men who regardless of their personal preference or orientation will objectify, use, and / or abuse women. We know that this happens to both skinny women and to fat women. No size range is is an exception to, nor holds an exclusive entititlement to having experienced mistreatment.
> 
> That being said, not all fat admirers are bad eggs. There are some genuine nice respectful men in this community. Like our skinny sisters, we're also going to have to kiss a few frogs before meeting our handsome prince.
> 
> We have each reached the point of life where we now exist on our own unique and very personal journey. We have all had different experiences in life and have had different experiences with men. Some of those experiences may -or may not- include bad experiences with fat admirers.
> 
> Let us not attempt to invalidate or make light of what someone else may have experienced, be it good or bad. A personal experience is just that, _personal_ and _unique_ to the individual relating the experience.
> 
> Let us also remember that there are those who lead double lives. They may treat you like a queen; but at the same time may be treating other women disrespectfully. Trust me, that does -and has- happened within this community.
> 
> I think the reason this article has _stirred_ us so is because it brings to light different aspects that we wish didn't exist within the size acceptance or fat acceptance world. There are those who still secretly despise being fat. There are those who confuse admiration and respect with lust and objectification. There are those who can't differentiate between emotional feelings and physical needs. There are those who profess to love us, when in reality they only love the fat that is on our physical body. There are those of us who want to be loved and accepted for all that we are, and not only in spite of -or because that- we are fat. Many women are looking for one thing and men are wanting something else, but they both believe that they want the same.
> 
> Many fat women (and fat men) find this community (a size accepting or fat acceptance site) and think that because they finally found others who desire them, that they will be treated with nothing but respect and admiration. After all, society _hates_ fat and here fat is _loved_ and _celebrated_. This must be the ultimate fat utopia we've always dreamed of! Eventually, though, our rose colored glasses are removed and we realize that this imagined utopia is very much like the real world after all.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Are you ready to put your convictions where your speeches are Mister? 




Paul Delacroix said:


> Cheer up. The mainstream Hollywood anorexics with the fake breasts and the collagen lips are just as fetishistic, and less natural.
> 
> I think what I am complaining most about is that size acceptance is 99% dead, and we FAs never did even have a good image when it was alive and kicking.
> 
> At some point we should consider doing it again; doing it RIGHT. We're better than this; fat women are beautiful, and the skinny female image is the one that requires brainwashing to relate to..not the natural beauty of the fat woman. In order to reinforce the idea that society considers fat women ugly, FAs must also be ugly, twisted little pervies who you wouldn't let your best friend date.
> 
> We someday need another organization, one that deals with the body image issues directly, and places them at center stage...and for reinforcement of our normalcy, it ought to be an organization that also promotes healthy exercise for people of all sizes. The existing organizations are fine and dandy but we need something new and different.
> 
> Bear with me, folks. I make this speech every six months or so. Usually after at least a half dozen beers. I got myself shunned at at least one SA convention for talking this way.


----------



## RedVelvet

mossystate said:


> Of course..and as I felt in the crosshairs of that comment about " sexually stifled American culture"..again...all fine and good..unless it has one person pretty much...erased...otherwise....fuck away!




exactly.....its more than the act itself.


Now...of course...I have nothing against a good screw...a nice, hot meaningless screw.......

I don't even mind feeling like I am being used, on occasion (say..tied up?)....I just dont like feeling like my fat is a masturbatory tool for someone who would be just has happy fucking a mound of it without me included.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Lilly I hope you always feel you can voice your opinion here - your voice is important. 





LillyBBBW said:


> Thanks Angel.  And for the record, I don't think my opinion or voice is more valid than anyone elses here. They're all just opinions and mine can be deemed crap just as well as anyone elses. I guess I'm just more inclined to be a "do something about it" kind of poster rather than a "look on the bright side" type. It comes off as being very negative at times which is why I'm sometimes hesitant to say anything at all. Only sometimes though.


----------



## LillyBBBW

I think you're on to something Paul, sign me up for your newsletter! Though I would like to steer clear of any language that marginalizes someone else. Anorexic fake breasted collagen lipped chicks need love too.




Paul Delacroix said:


> Cheer up. The mainstream Hollywood anorexics with the fake breasts and the collagen lips are just as fetishistic, and less natural.
> 
> I think what I am complaining most about is that size acceptance is 99% dead, and we FAs never did even have a good image when it was alive and kicking.
> 
> At some point we should consider doing it again; doing it RIGHT. We're better than this; fat women are beautiful, and the skinny female image is the one that requires brainwashing to relate to..not the natural beauty of the fat woman. In order to reinforce the idea that society considers fat women ugly, FAs must also be ugly, twisted little pervies who you wouldn't let your best friend date.
> 
> We someday need another organization, one that deals with the body image issues directly, and places them at center stage...and for reinforcement of our normalcy, it ought to be an organization that also promotes healthy exercise for people of all sizes. The existing organizations are fine and dandy but we need something new and different.
> 
> Bear with me, folks. I make this speech every six months or so. Usually after at least a half dozen beers. I got myself shunned at at least one SA convention for talking this way.


----------



## RedVelvet

LillyBBBW said:


> I think you're on to something Paul, sign me up for your newsletter! Though I would like to steer clear of any language that marginalizes someone else. Anorexic fake breasted collagen lipped chicks need love too.




oh Lilly 
I like you.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

RedVelvet said:


> exactly.....its more than the act itself.
> 
> 
> Now...of course...I have nothing against a good screw...a nice, hot meaningless screw.......
> 
> I don't even mind feeling like I am being used, on occasion (say..tied up?)....I just dont like feeling like my fat is a masturbatory tool for someone who would be just has happy fucking a mound of it without me included.




But see that's not true. In my case at least. 

The good guys are NOT about fucking fat - any fat. They are about mutual sexual pleasure with someone they care about. 

And who says it's not pleasurable for the woman??  The skin is the largest erogenous zone on the body.


----------



## EtobicokeFA

LillyBBBW said:


> Thanks Angel.  And for the record, I don't think my opinion or voice is more valid than anyone elses here. They're all just opinions and mine can be deemed crap just as well as anyone elses. I guess I'm just more inclined to be a "do something about it" kind of poster rather than a "look on the bright side" type. It comes off as being very negative at times which is why I'm sometimes hesitant to say anything at all. Only sometimes though.



And, we thank you for being an example to us, and staying what is on your mind!


----------



## RedVelvet

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> But see that's not true. In my case at least.
> 
> The good guys are NOT about fucking fat - any fat. They are about mutual sexual pleasure with someone they care about.
> 
> And who says it's not pleasurable for the woman??  The skin is the largest erogenous zone on the body.



SANDIE!! ggeeeez...maybe I just suck at communication, but I feel like I am not being heard, intention, wize... 

Did I say the GOOD guys are about fucking fat? NOPE! I said the BAD ones were!
Why would I say that about a good guy!?



And as to pleasure or not for the woman? Ok...maybe there are women out there who find that hot.....ok..fine..maybe there are (which is, I might remind you...what I said in my ORIGINAL post about pots and lids?)....I originally said there must be women out there who do....cuz fat IS being fucked, somewhere in the world...and I would pray to the goddess that its not by women doing it SOLELY for someone else's pleasure.

Me....I don't like it...and not a single fat women I have discussed it with does....and thats my only opinion...I never said I speak for everyone...never will.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Sorry -I'm pounding my point again aren't I? LOL

I'm trying not to do that. 





RedVelvet said:


> SANDIE!! ggeeeez...maybe I just suck at communication, but I feel like I am not being heard, intention, wize...
> 
> Did I say the GOOD guys are about fucking fat? NOPE! I said the BAD ones were!
> Why would I say that about a good guy!?
> 
> 
> 
> And as to pleasure or not for the woman? Ok...maybe there are women out there who find that hot.....ok..fine..maybe there are (which is, I might remind you...what I said in my ORIGINAL post about pots and lids?)....I originally said there must be women out there who do....cuz fat IS being fucked, somewhere in the world...and I would pray to the goddess that its not by women doing it SOLELY for someone else's pleasure.
> 
> Me....I don't like it...and not a single fat women I have discussed it with does....and thats my only opinion...I never said I speak for everyone...never will.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Sorry -I'm pounding my point again aren't I? LOL
> 
> I'm trying not to do that.



*giggle* that sounds dirty.


----------



## RedVelvet

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Sorry -I'm pounding my point again aren't I? LOL
> 
> I'm trying not to do that.




Sounds fucking kinky....ha!


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

RedVelvet said:


> Sounds fucking kinky....ha!



YOU have a dirty mind. Just like me!


----------



## fanofdimensions

I have to say, I was really surprised by the article...I read her bar reviews in the Weekly which are really fun to read...but I had no idea she had the surgery or that she was once 360 lbs. I think she's a neat person no matter what, and she's very attractive at any size.

I see her point though. I think that pushing some sort of "thing" on women who are curvy like she was can make them feel as shitty as pressuring someone to lose weight all the time.

I think to be truly "open minded" one should just see people for who they are not what they are and not limit themselves to only thin people, tall people, fat people, whatever.






Jay West Coast said:


> I was flipping through the cover article in the SFWeekly this morning at my local coffeeshop. The author had weight loss surgery two years ago, but I decided to read it anyway out of pure curiosity. The author goes on about how she actually cherished being 360, but in the world in which fat people have to live, it became "unreasonable" to not to live as a thin person.
> 
> As she discusses her life experience being fat (which is well written and I think people ought to be more educated to what the fat experience is), she writes a chapter about dating FA's:
> 
> 
> 
> After reading this, I felt really strange. Is it true? Are we weirdoes? If this liberal ultra-accepting newspaper labels us as fetishistic bucketcases, maybe I've been thinking of this all wrong.
> 
> What are your experiences with FA's? Are they the wonderful intentions of creation made to appreciate fat women for the beautiful beings they are, or a collection of fellers who could use some counseling? Was this author's experience indicative, or unfortunate and off-base?
> 
> (And, yes, part of me is posting this to hear self-affirming points that FA's are not freaks.)


----------



## Jane

Jay West Coast said:


> I was flipping through the cover article in the SFWeekly After reading this, I felt really strange. Is it true? Are we weirdoes? If this liberal ultra-accepting newspaper labels us as fetishistic bucketcases, maybe I've been thinking of this all wrong.
> 
> What are your experiences with FA's? Are they the wonderful intentions of creation made to appreciate fat women for the beautiful beings they are, or a collection of fellers who could use some counseling? Was this author's experience indicative, or unfortunate and off-base?
> 
> (And, yes, part of me is posting this to hear self-affirming points that FA's are not freaks.)





> but compared to all the other gnomes out there who liked superbig girls, he was a catch



And what a fucking catch she is, with all that sensibility and shit.

Everyone is a freak. Period. If they are a lot like you, they're your kind of freak. The more "normal" they act, the freakier they are.

And FA or not FA some men are really "out there" when it comes to sexual issues.


----------



## Paul Delacroix

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Are you ready to put your convictions where your speeches are Mister?



I have no podium, let alone audience.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Paul Delacroix said:


> I have no podium, let alone audience.




HA!!! Of course you do! Look around here.


----------



## Paul Delacroix

LillyBBBW said:


> I think you're on to something Paul, sign me up for your newsletter! Though I would like to steer clear of any language that marginalizes someone else. Anorexic fake breasted collagen lipped chicks need love too.



As long as we can salute the aesthetic superiority of the fat woman. Citing aesthetic superiority is not marginalization. It's making a choice, like chocolate over vanilla.


----------



## Jack Skellington

LillyBBBW said:


> Though I would like to steer clear of any language that marginalizes someone else. Anorexic fake breasted collagen lipped chicks need love too.



I agree with that and for the record, I have absolutely no problem with fake breasts. Breasts are kewl.


----------



## Paul Delacroix

Jack Skellington said:


> I agree with that and for the record, I have absolutely no problem with fake breasts. Breasts are kewl.



Fake breasts do not jiggle.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Paul Delacroix said:


> Fake breasts do not jiggle.




LMAO!!!

The jiggle factor!


----------



## RedVelvet

Jack Skellington said:


> I agree with that and for the record, I have absolutely no problem with fake breasts. Breasts are kewl.




I just like..bodies. In all their infinite variety.

also..big penises.

no wait..I mean eyes.


----------



## Jack Skellington

Paul Delacroix said:


> Fake breasts do not jiggle.



You'd be surprised. 

Seriously though, Lilly really did make a good point. Marginalizing another group is really not the right way to go about this.


----------



## ripley

LillyBBBW said:


> In either case, 90% of the time it is revealed in some crass manner or they're caught doing something they shouldn't be doing and usually BBW's who bear the honors of seeing it most. For many women these encounters constitute the majority of their interactions with FA, at least to their knowledge.



This about sums up my experience, I'm sad to say.

I've been flirted with a handful of times in real life (outside of the internet or BBW event) and they were pretty nice, mannerly interactions. However, most of my interactions with FAs are online, and the vast majority of those are through Dimensions. I have met some great guys here, and count many as my friends. 

But.

I have a cornucopia of fat-freak FA horror stories. The person who said he didn't think the author of this article had really had this happen to her, I'd say think again. I'm not going into them here, but I have had this (or worse) things laid out for me on an almost daily basis. I'm afraid it's making me bitter. If I do have a guy approach me in chat I try to be a little reserved (never know when you're going to be hit by something that you'd rather not think about, and it pays to brace yourself) but how does that read to the nice, shy FA type who has screwed up the courage to PM you cold? I'm trying to protect myself, and he's feeling like he's getting the cold shoulder. I don't know what to do anymore.

I come from a really small town (just over 300 people) and finding interested men (whom I am interested in too) offline is quite hard. When I first found Dimensions about four or five years ago, I was dazzled. All these men, flirting with me! It was like a whole new universe. It's now easier for me to feel like my body is sexy, and that I'm an attractive person, but nothing has fundamentally changed. I still haven't dated. I keep coming back, despite the unsavory exchanges, because it is the most potent, distilled place for me to find some of these feelings. And I quite like feeling beautiful, and sexy, and desirable. I know that it's fool's gold, most likely, and I'll continue to go on alone, but for now, at least, it's worth the risk of encountering creeps to find those rare guys that can make you feel seen, and wanted, body and mind.


----------



## Jack Skellington

RedVelvet said:


> I just like..bodies. In all their infinite variety.
> 
> also..big penises.
> 
> no wait..I mean eyes.



Yes, yes of course. 

BTW: You rule.


----------



## Paul Delacroix

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> LMAO!!!
> 
> The jiggle factor!



Yep, Jigglosity. 

I've often felt that the post 19th Century western Breast Obsession was a fetish response to the corset and slimmer figures. 

Fat women jiggle in great places, over widespread areas. Actually most women do--they just don't do it as nicely.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Paul Delacroix said:


> Yep, Jigglosity.
> 
> I've often felt that the post 19th Century western Breast Obsession was a fetish response to the corset and slimmer figures.
> 
> Fat women jiggle in great places, over widespread areas. Actually most women do--they just don't do it as nicely.




Ahhhhhhh the images you bring to mind.


----------



## RedVelvet

Jack Skellington said:


> Yes, yes of course.
> 
> BTW: You rule.




No, you do, sweetie..

Lets get some crowns made and take over a small country...some place with good local wines, cuisine and clothing companies.

We will look smashing together and actually enjoy each others company, unlike most royal families.


----------



## Paul Delacroix

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Ahhhhhhh the images you bring to mind.



Well, fat women jiggle and curve _gracefully_.


----------



## RedVelvet

I smell flirting.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

RedVelvet said:


> I smell flirting.



HA!

Mutual admiration.  And good friends.


----------



## TraciJo67

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> HA!
> 
> Mutual admiration.  And good friends.



sniff ... sniff ...

No, it's flirtation that I be smellin' as well. It has the distinctly full-bodied, musky aroma of hanky, followed by the lush bouquet of panky


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

TraciJo67 said:


> sniff ... sniff ...
> 
> No, it's flirtation that I be smellin' as well. It has the distinctly full-bodied, musky aroma of hanky, followed by the lush bouquet of panky



You guys are terrible! Altho I am a horrible flirt!

But I was enjoying the visuals Paul was painting with his words. LOL Sue me.


----------



## Dhaunae

I have very little experience with FA's so I can't comment much on their freakish, or lack thereof, qualities. I have experienced behavior in chat that has made me apprehensive of going back.. PM's from men who think I am into food and that it's going to turn me on by telling me what they're eating, etc. I am trying to come to grips with my weight and I limit myself on what I eat so the idea that someone would want to either arouse me with snacks or encourage me to get bigger really weirds me out.


----------



## RedVelvet

TraciJo67 said:


> sniff ... sniff ...
> 
> No, it's flirtation that I be smellin' as well. It has the distinctly full-bodied, musky aroma of hanky, followed by the lush bouquet of panky




HAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHHAAH!!!

Traci...funny.

Way fucking funny.





Paul..this is overdue...your work is lovely...really charming and vintage looking, yet fresh and with with your own distinct style...meant to say that.

GOOD stuff.


----------



## Paul Delacroix

RedVelvet said:


> HAAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHHAAH!!!
> 
> Traci...funny.
> 
> Way fucking funny.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Paul..this is overdue...your work is lovely...really charming and vintage looking, yet fresh and with with your own distinct style...meant to say that.
> 
> GOOD stuff.



Thanks! Maybe I'll put a website back up or something.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Paul Delacroix said:


> Thanks! Maybe I'll put a website back up or something.



Huh? Wha?? Where did I hear that suggested before? I could swaer there was someone telling you to do that..............right??? LMAO


----------



## Paul Delacroix

Dhaunae said:


> I have very little experience with FA's so I can't comment much on their freakish, or lack thereof, qualities. I have experienced behavior in chat that has made me apprehensive of going back.. PM's from men who think I am into food and that it's going to turn me on by telling me what they're eating, etc. I am trying to come to grips with my weight and I limit myself on what I eat so the idea that someone would want to either arouse me with snacks or encourage me to get bigger really weirds me out.



That's a valid point, and--even if some people do like gaining weight/fantasy/gluttony, etc., many people-even if they are accepting of their weight personally--are still concerned with health, which means things like cholesterol, sugar grams, and so on are cognizant thoughts. 

And I hate to be a stick in the mud, but I think almost NO ONE in the size acceptance or BBW/FA world talks enough about exercise. Exercise is a necessary ingredient to the health and well-being of people of all sizes.


----------



## OfftoOtherPlaces

Paul Delacroix said:


> Exercise is a necessary ingredient to the health and well-being of people of all sizes.



That's right. Even gnomes.






I agree with the other stuff about exercise too. It's one of the best things that anyone can do for themselves. Exercising for even one minute of one day once a year will make you healthier than someone who has exercised none. Not being sarcastic here.


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist

Say Hello to the Angels said:


> Absolutely. Even gnomes.



No. I really don't want the gnomes to be healthy.


----------



## TraciJo67

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> No. I really don't want the gnomes to be healthy.



That's coz you're pushing your own agenda, Casey. And, I really want my money back. Yesterday.


----------



## liz (di-va)

Paul Delacroix said:


> The FA image problem could be fixed if size acceptance were larger and more powerful...but it isn't.



In a nutshell.


----------



## mossystate

TraciJo67 said:


> That's coz you're pushing your own agenda, Casey. And, I really want my money back. Yesterday.



You just want somebody to snatch you and take pictures of you in front of the Taj Mahal..and every Sizzler in North America....


----------



## TraciJo67

mossystate said:


> You just want somebody to snatch you and take pictures of you in front of the Taj Mahal..and every Sizzler in North America....



Get OUT OF MY HEAD, woman! Seriously ... it's creepy, how well you know me.


----------



## mossystate

TraciJo67 said:


> Get OUT OF MY HEAD, woman! Seriously ... it's creepy, how well you know me.





Hey, nobody else was using the space.


* ba dum bum *


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist

TraciJo67 said:


> That's coz you're pushing your own agenda, Casey. And, I really want my money back. Yesterday.



Oh. Just send me a $55 processing fee. I'll just add it back into the check.


----------



## pani

I think it is January. Therefore, media will trot out all kinds of antifat articles. Even if it is not instigated by a particular sponsor, the media's job nowdays is to create a climate that is good for their sponsors. Size acceptance is bad for business! Men who like fat women are a threat to the diet industry. So they have to be discreditied and molded as uncool! Know what the most uncool freak I ever dated did. Rag on me for having a normal sized plate of lettuce instead of a small one. Now that is about as freakish and obsessive as you can get!


----------



## Jon Blaze

Paul Delacroix said:


> And I hate to be a stick in the mud, but I think almost NO ONE in the size acceptance or BBW/FA world talks enough about exercise. Exercise is a necessary ingredient to the health and well-being of people of all sizes.




I advocate exercise a lot, but I believe that NAAFA and the like still have a lot of disagreements on what kind of activities they want people to engage in. Not everyone likes water polo, aerobics, and yoga. I do though, but I'd rather tornado kick somebody in the head after I run a few miles. 

You also have to look at it from the HAES view too. There's no set beliefs in that too. That's why I sometimes separate HAES from FAES (If you or anyone else believes in the seperation), even though I think they should coexist, if not be one in the same.

There doesn't seem to be a set concept on how to go about it, due to the variety of sizes and situations we're dealing with. I've heard people that believe in HAES dismiss exercise more than once (Not a standard though).


----------



## OfftoOtherPlaces

Jon Blaze said:


> I advocate exercise a lot, but I believe that NAAFA and the like still have a lot of disagreements on what kind of activities they want people to engage in. Not everyone likes water polo, aerobics, and yoga. I do though, but I'd rather tornado kick somebody in the head after I run a few miles.
> 
> You also have to look at it from the HAES view too. There's no set beliefs in that too. That's why I sometimes separate HAES from FAES (If you or anyone else believes in the seperation), even though I think they should coexist, if not be one in the same.
> 
> There doesn't seem to be a set concept on how to go about it, due to the variety of sizes and situations we're dealing with. I've heard people that believe in HAES dismiss exercise more than once (Not a standard though).



I'm sorry, what is a HAES? FAES? I'm not up on all this political stuff.


----------



## Jon Blaze

Say Hello to the Angels said:


> I'm sorry, what is a HAES? FAES? I'm not up on all this political stuff.



HAES- "Health at Every Size." The definition is subjective. Most, imo, consider it the concept of living healthy without an emphasis on the size you happen to be. That varies a lot though:
Some believe in intuitive eating. Some believe in healthy eating. Some believe in a mix. Most of the other parameters (Sleep, habits, and so on: There's more lifestyle factors that have an effect on the waistline than Saturn has moons ) are about the same, but you occasionally get someone that believes otherwise. My stance is that mix (Unless you're like me, and your eating habits just happen to be a mix of intuition/health anyway ).


FAES- HAES usually has the health/fitness component thrown, in, but this is "Fitness at every size." Similar concept again: What's more important to you? The ability to do 50 crunches and run two miles, or your abs? Which has a better correlation to fitness? Ah. DING DING! If you say abs: WRONG!  

I consider what I do something like that if not in a reduced form. I exercise almost exclusively for the BIG 7: Speed, strength, power, balance, stamina, coordination, and flexibility. If my body changes in some way, it's fine, but an inability in the big 7 is going to hit harder than not having my six-pack anymore. Not a moral falling by any means, but it would hurt me much worse than if I got drastically heavier/thinner.

It's controversial. I love it, but it's not too uncommon for someone to disagree with it for one reason or another (i.e. Doesn't like exercise, views don't align with it, and so on).


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

mossystate said:


> Lilly and RveeJ just made me orgasm.




I would be angry if I hadn't already kicked you to the curb for such infidelities


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Wagimawr said:


> orgasm of the HEART <3<3<3




I doubt it


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Paul Delacroix said:


> My 280 pound wood nymphs and women riding on bicycles are, I'm sure, quite boring by comparison to what seems to be the mainstream Internet FA audience.




You draw wood nymphs? How YOU doing?  :wubu: :bow:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Yay for sexually stifled American culture!!!
> 
> Graphic, so bear with me. It's for a POINT.
> 
> Someone might like a rollfuck for the same reason I like a titfuck. It won't bring me to orgasm. I like the position of a male lover and seeing his stomach, and still being able to look at his face and feel connected and with him. It's friction, therefore interesting. With fatfucking, you are almost certainly getting another perspective of your partner. Unlikely to bring you to orgasm, but worth trying.




I think tit-fucking is hot- it's not the ONLY thing I like but as part of the over-all experience, it floats my boat, too  
























there have other mentioned things here that I like as well but I won't go into that- I don't consider myself a fetishist for it.......just an "open" type of girl :batting:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

TraciJo67 said:


> Damn it, I've never received stray erect penis pics. Maybe ... I'm just bitter
> 
> FRANTIC ETA: Not that I'm inviting them. Irony. IRONY!!



I actually did get a cawk pic in my PM box once..........I didn't chastise him for it because I do go around making all those jokes about them......he just didn't seem to realize that it IS a joke on my part :doh:



yeah yeah, I asked and FINALLY received


----------



## CleverBomb

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I think tit-fucking is hot- it's not the ONLY thing I like but as part of the over-all experience, it floats my boat, too
> 
> <edited for space>there have other mentioned things here that I like as well but I won't go into that- I don't consider myself a fetishist for it.......just an "open" type of girl :batting:



As you so elegantly put it....


Green Eyed Fairy said:


> How YOU doing?  :wubu: :bow:



[Note: yep, I'm still happily otherwise occupied... but that called out for a response.  ]
-Rusty


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Susannah said:


> Yes. I have had several guys here ask me if I would have my Lapband taken out so that I could gain etc etc. They said that if I loved my partner etc it would be a good thing to do. I have this band because I am sick meanwhile and had to lose. Is that not an important issue to consider? Don't wanna be skinny, but it was something I had to do.



Whenever someone pulls that "if you love me you will" card, I hear loud sirens in the back of my mind.........and feel my hackles rise. :blink:


----------



## CleverBomb

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Whenever someone pulls that "if you love me you will" card, I hear loud sirens in the back of my mind.........and feel my hackles rise. :blink:


 
as well you should.

-Rusty


----------



## superodalisque

i have to say i agree with the article somewhat. i love my body. i'm 440lbs. i've never dieted a day in my life. but, i have met a few FAs who have made me lose my appetite. 

but i don't think every FA is like that.

keep talking Jay because sometimes the other ones get too loud and i can hardly hear you!


----------



## Jane

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Whenever someone pulls that "if you love me you will" card, I hear loud sirens in the back of my mind.........and feel my hackles rise. :blink:



Kinda like when someone says "It's him or me." Well, then..byeee!!!


----------



## exile in thighville

TraciJo67 said:


> (I'm more into mutual pleasure ... and fucking my folds is a sure way to induce a semi-comatose 'lemme count the tiles in the ceiling while you do your thing' yawn-a-thon in me) ... it's all about the fat ... and let's cut right to the chase, eh?



I mean, you could look at the ceiling and not enjoy the fact you're granting someone pleasure with your body, that they're loving you for who you are and what you've got. Or you could take the reigns and make it mutual by demanding some pussyeating in return.


----------



## Angel

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> If you are with an FA - fat fucking is pleasurable to him - so what's wrong with that?



There are some fat admirers who haven't; have absolutely no desire to; and whose only desire is to have conventional intercourse with - or to make love to the BBW they are involved with (or wish to become involved with).








ok, where are the pics and vids of the well-endowed FA and the BBW who are into it? color me curious.


----------



## TraciJo67

dan ex machina said:


> I mean, you could look at the ceiling and not enjoy the fact you're granting someone pleasure with your body, that they're loving you for who you are and what you've got. Or you could take the reigns and make it mutual by demanding some pussyeating in return.



Is there a 3rd option? Oh, yeah.

I think I'll choose ... not letting the man I love fuck my fat folds in the first place, and instead grant him the sort of pleasure with my body that *also* pleases me.


----------



## exile in thighville

TraciJo67 said:


> Is there a 3rd option? Oh, yeah.
> 
> I think I'll choose ... not letting the man I love fuck my fat folds in the first place, and instead grant him the sort of pleasure with my body that *also* pleases me.



That's one way to turn down a lover's needs.


----------



## TraciJo67

dan ex machina said:


> That's one way to turn down a lover's needs.



Fortunately, my lover doesn't have that particular need ... so it's win/win! Yay!


----------



## liz (di-va)

I _know_ this (frotteurism) is a hot-button topic, but I have to be honest: I grow weary of a sense of low-grade sexual disapproval that bubbles away despite "ymmv" protestations. The fact that someone likes receiving frotteur sex or sex in other than a sanctioned set of Okay Places (vaginal intercourse, oral sex) doesn't mean you're a passive insecure freak who lets weird FAs treat you like meat (fatty fatty meat). After all, it's not like there's a clitoris in your mouth, either, as a friend of mine once said. Most of sex is...parts.

It's all about how connected a person is to the person they're having sex with. It's possible for there to be connected, intimate, personal sex when yer all bdsm-ed up or worshipping somebody's feet or whatever. I'm not saying some of the great wide world of sexual proclivities doesn't squick me out either, but this seems a strange community wherein to keep drawing a line disapproving of frotteurism, which truly is a YMMV sexual act and does have something to do with fat bodies.


----------



## Jane

I think, personally, people can draw that line wherever they want. I don't see any condemnation as a community, so what's the beef?


----------



## Shosh

TraciJo67 said:


> Prude.
> 
> And, who are you to judge me?



I would never judge you Traci. I am back in your good graces again. I dont wanna risk that! Ha Ha!

Meanwhile Golden Showers, icky!!!


----------



## LillyBBBW

Jane said:


> I think, personally, people can draw that line wherever they want. I don't see any condemnation as a community, so what's the beef?



The beef is:


I think _______ is icky.
I think people who like _______ are icky.

One is a personal opinion, the other is a personal attack.


----------



## TraciJo67

LillyBBBW said:


> The beef is:
> 
> 
> I think _______ is icky.
> I think people who like _______ are icky.
> 
> One is a personal opinion, the other is a personal attack.



I agree with you, Lilly. And as I stated before, _____ is just not *my* thing. I resented the implication that I'm a selfish lover because if asked for ______, I'd turn it down. And I responded to that.


----------



## TraciJo67

dan ex machina said:


> I mean, you could look at the ceiling and not enjoy the fact you're granting someone pleasure with your body, that they're loving you for who you are and what you've got. Or you could take the reigns and make it mutual by demanding some pussyeating in return.



I've just noticed that you did a rather misleading cut 'n paste job on my original quote, Dan ... adding the "it's all about the fat" line to the end of the initial comment that you quoted, and chopping out the part about how I was referring to complete strangers who SPAM my inbox with "how fat r u, how fat do you wanna be" crap ... and making it seem that I was implying that what I'd find distasteful in bed ... with my husband/lover of 20 years (rather than my desire to not be objectified by anonymous men via my inbox) .... is "all about the fat". That's REALLY BAD FORM on your part, Dan.


----------



## Jane

TraciJo67 said:


> I've just noticed that you did a rather misleading cut 'n paste job on my original quote, Dan ... adding the "it's all about the fat" line to the end of the initial comment that you quoted, and chopping out the part about how I was referring to complete strangers who SPAM my inbox with "how fat r u, how fat do you wanna be" crap ... and making it seem that I was implying that what I'd find distasteful in bed ... with my husband/lover of 20 years (rather than my desire to not be objectified by anonymous men via my inbox) .... is "all about the fat". That's REALLY BAD FORM on your part, Dan.



Oh, you silly Traci...thinking you know what you want. Thinking you're anything more than a big ol' Rubber Rhonda to begin with.

It's not like we haven't tried other things, guys. There are things one woman likes that another doesn't.

I knew a man who would never have sex while on his back. His two older brothers had held him down and dribbled spit on him when he was a kid...not once but daily for years. That position, somehow, did not allow him to relax.

And, a hint, the day you figure out that women are people, too, and that we have the same rights to do or not do that you have, you will be in for one of those epiphany things, and might even find someone who will agree to do some of the things about which you fantacize.


----------



## stefanie

TraciJo67 said:


> I agree with you, Lilly. And as I stated before, _____ is just not *my* thing. I resented the implication that I'm a selfish lover because if asked for ______, I'd turn it down. And I responded to that.



Exactly. It's not selfish, to feel there are certain things you cannot do; certain sexual "places" you cannot go. Some people are "game" for just about everything. Others are not.

As far as the original article goes, I personally think the author is blaming some creepy men she's met, and her weight, for a lot of her problems. Even if she *does* get small enough to be socially "acceptable" as a non-fat woman (no guarantee), she will probably still run into creepy men. Many of her old problems will still be there, with some new ones hanging on for the ride.

Her conclusion that *all* men who like fat women are creepy is not well-thought out, but it does provide her with at least a partial rationale for her decision. 

*Paul Delacroix*, the little I've seen of your pinups are intriguing. I don't think it would be too much self-promotion to put them up on a website ...


----------



## DoctorBreen

It depends on how you look at it. Every time you masturbate to porn, you're objectifying someone. I admit I do that. Out of sexual attraction, that's granted. Not something you do outside. It's for my own pleasure, and in moderation.
Sex is probably one of the last things on my mind when I approach a lady I like. If it's for a serious relationship, I want a girl with a personality, who's good to talk to. I wouldn't have sex with a chick just because of her physique. One night stand, maybe, just for fun.
Freaks who happen to be FAs, are guys who just view real women who they meet in person as sexual objects, nothing more, etc.
I prefer bigger ladies than is considered "normal", and some related turn ons, :blush: but nothing like the freaky crap some FAs come up with. FA is just a general term for guys who are attracted to big chicks and so on. And those guys can be all sorts of people. Otherwise "average" guys, intellectuals, professionals, even people who you would assume would be anti-fat girl or something, e.g sportsmen. And within the group there are some hardcore fetishist FAs who are so fixated and fetishised, and try to make their fantasies become reality, feeders, hardcore sex, stalkers, disturbing comments, etc.
Fat fetishists aren't exactly bad if they know control, but the hardcore FAs are often embarrassing and unnerving to behold(no offence). Really lets down the honest, well-intentioned guy who likes big chicks.


----------



## TraciJo67

stefanie said:


> As far as the original article goes, I personally think the author is blaming some creepy men she's met, and her weight, for a lot of her problems. Even if she *does* get small enough to be socially "acceptable" as a non-fat woman (no guarantee), she will probably still run into creepy men. Many of her old problems will still be there, with some new ones hanging on for the ride.
> 
> Her conclusion that *all* men who like fat women are creepy is not well-thought out, but it does provide her with at least a partial rationale for her decision.



Stefanie, I went back and read the entire article that the OP referenced. I don't think that she was intentionally implying that all of the FA's she met were creepy. Here's one snippet from Katy St Clair's article:

*Then I met another boyfriend, a great guy who was really nice (I didn't trust him of course  he was too nice), and, strangely, he liked "fleshy" women. This didn't compute; no one liked fat chicks except closet cases and retards. Despite all my attempts at anorexia I had never gotten beyond being curvy, or, in my mind, fat.*

I think that what she's saying here is that because she hated her body, and rejected the idea that her body is beautiful JUST AS IT IS, she couldn't understand that anyone else could find it attractive... or if he did, there must be something "wrong" with him. 

Here's what she writes about her body image, and (I think) probably closer to the reason why she really opted for WLS: 

*It became apparent to me that no matter how much progress was made in my therapy, self-image, and strength, I would constantly be put up against the rest of the world, who could see none of my spiritual growth. Damn, it was hard to be fat. Also, no matter how "happy" I was, I still wouldn't fit in airplane seats or restaurant booths, or be able to have a healthy pregnancy someday.*

I can relate to what she writes, especially the post-WLS experience. I found Dimensions *after* I had WLS (actually, I was introduced to Dimensions by friends who were posting on another size acceptance board along with me). I stumbled into size acceptance because I was feeling lost, desperately needed support, and was growing disillusioned with the rabidly anti-fat message that was being shoved down my throat by the participants in my WLS "support" group meetings. It was my first real eye-opening experience with REAL fat hatred ... not to say that I didn't experience that as a fat woman, but in snippets (a callous remark here ... an indifferent dismissal there). What I was getting from the pro-WLS cheerleaders was a pure, concentrated dose. I was still a very fat woman ... being told by formerly fat women that it's OK to hate my fat and to blame it for everything that had gone wrong in my life ... and that life would be a lemon-scented spray of sunshine, once the weight came off. One day, I looked up fat acceptance on the internet, and I found a place where I felt I belonged. The irony is not lost on me, that I was becoming a formerly fat woman myself. Prior to finding Dimensions and other size-acceptance sites, I was truly ignorant of the notion that there are men ... a LOT of men ... who find the rubenesque form to be very beautiful. And they aren't just looking beyond it (as I felt that my husband was doing with me or that, frankly, any man would have to do in order to be with me) ... they PREFER it. The truth is, my husband wasn't just 'looking beyond' it either. But ... that idea ... just did not compute with me. All my life, I'd been led to believe that my fat was unattractive. And to me, it was. My husband could have shouted from the rooftop that he loved my fat body and I wouldn't have heard him. My very limited experience as a single fat woman was rather similar to the Katy's: strange men approaching me in bars (the fat purse-holding friend, of course) and not even ATTEMPTING to engage me in conversation or God forbid, even offering to buy me a drink ... just flat-out propositioning me. I did not have WLS in order to be attractive to other men; I was married & very much in love with my husband, I desperately wanted to have his baby, and fertility specialists were telling me that my weight was preventing me from that goal. But if I had been single ... I wonder how many of these type of encounters I'd have suffered through before coming to the conclusion that it would be far easier to be thin? And had I found size-acceptance groups ... and attended the meet 'n greets ... would I have encountered more of the same outrageous behaviors outlined by Katy? I'm honestly curious ... I haven't been single since I was 20, so I just don't know. I do know that there are a lot of really great guys here (a few that I'm thrilled to consider friends) ... and a lot of sharks ... and unfortunately, the predators are rather ... vocal. 

This has been my experience: life as a thin(ner) woman is easier, but not 'happier'. I rejoice in many of the same things that Katy does (issues related to restored mobility & freedom of movement). I have many of the same problems, and for the first few years at least, new ones to add to the mix. I am NOT advocating WLS ... I have very mixed feelings about it, and would not recommend it as a quick fix or even as the first alternative to extreme health concerns. I am only saying that I can understand the despair, and the desperation, that fueled Katy's decision. And ... I don't know what I'm sadder for ... those wasted years of self-loathing that I'll never get back, or the soon-to-be very disillusioned men & women who still believe that their own lives would be ever so much happier if they'd just lose weight.


----------



## LillyBBBW

It has occured to me that 'FA' may mean different things to different people. To some it means a person who is attracted to anybody who is fat while to others it is merely the opposite of an FH. (fat hater) One person associates FA with fetishism and obsession which would make the term undesirable while to most everyone else applies it to people who find fat an attractive attribute without the exclusion of all else. 




DoctorBreen said:


> It depends on how you look at it. Every time you masturbate to porn, you're objectifying someone. I admit I do that. Out of sexual attraction, that's granted. Not something you do outside. It's for my own pleasure, and in moderation.
> Sex is probably one of the last things on my mind when I approach a lady I like. If it's for a serious relationship, I want a girl with a personality, who's good to talk to. I wouldn't have sex with a chick just because of her physique. One night stand, maybe, just for fun.
> Freaks who happen to be FAs, are guys who just view real women who they meet in person as sexual objects, nothing more, etc.
> I prefer bigger ladies than is considered "normal", and some related turn ons, :blush: but nothing like the freaky crap some FAs come up with. FA is just a general term for guys who are attracted to big chicks and so on. And those guys can be all sorts of people. Otherwise "average" guys, intellectuals, professionals, even people who you would assume would be anti-fat girl or something, e.g sportsmen. And within the group there are some hardcore fetishist FAs who are so fixated and fetishised, and try to make their fantasies become reality, feeders, hardcore sex, stalkers, disturbing comments, etc.
> Fat fetishists aren't exactly bad if they know control, but the hardcore FAs are often embarrassing and unnerving to behold(no offence). Really lets down the honest, well-intentioned guy who likes big chicks.


----------



## LoveBHMS

LillyBBBW said:


> It has occured to me that 'FA' may mean different things to different people. To some it means a person who is attracted to anybody who is fat while to others it is merely the opposite of an FH. (fat hater) One person associates FA with fetishism and obsession which would make the term undesirable while to most everyone else applies it to people who find fat an attractive attribute without the exclusion of all else.



True. I like fat guys. If i'm someplace in public and a fat guy walks by, my head will turn. Last week i was at the gym and 'distracted' myself while on the stairmaster by watching a fat guy who was weightlifting (more fun than a stupid magazine or ipod!) If i encounter a fat guy through work or a social event, i'll probably check out his belly.

That having been said, it's not a fetish for me. I've recently dated a guy who weighs 130 pounds. I've dated fat guys who lost weight. I don't see an attractive man and start thinking "not fat enough.." I sure don't objectify it.

BUT. Some women do, and i get that. There are women on the BHM board who post about getting upset if a partner loses weight. There are women who if they are not with a SSBHM, just won't get horny enough. There is nothing wrong with those women---it's just how they are. 

What's important is how you act, not how you think.


----------



## TraciJo67

Jane said:


> Oh, you silly Traci...thinking you know what you want. Thinking you're anything more than a big ol' Rubber Rhonda to begin with.



Thanks, but I really prefer to be known as Silicone Sally.


----------



## LoveBHMS

TraciJo67 said:


> Thanks, but I really prefer to be known as Silicone Sally.



Silicone isn't very soft or bouncy.


----------



## Moonchild

There are a lot of freaking posts in this thread so I'm sure I'm repeating something. I read the first and last page but that's it...

I think objectifying is an inescapable part of humanity. I think my girlfriend (who happens to be thin, for the record) is gorgeous and I tell her that all the time, which is a reflection of my response to her body and therefore objectification, but every so often I remind her that that isn't why I love her. Immanuel Kant argued that people can be treated as means or as ends; that is to say treated like things or like people. He demanded that all rational beings be treated as ends. As long as they are treated as ends, they also may be treated as means, provided it does not interfere with their treatment as ends. It's classic dualistic paradox - we ARE objects, but more importantly, we're also NOT objects. The story this thread is about gave an example of a violation of this rule.

Now, I didn't say all of that to argue that objectification is okay - I'm more of the opinion that it's a necessity that must be carefully moderated, but rather to argue that the author of the story in the first post here is trying to escape something that is inescapable. I think a request for her soliciter to fuck off would be more appropriate than dangerous surgery, especially if, as is implied (I'm sure [read: hope] this isn't the case), it's the only reason for it.

I feel there is a gaping hole in her logic. She doesn't want a man who will objectify her, but she has to lose weight to get him? I'd rather have someone who loves me no matter what I look like. Getting weight loss surgery for this sole reason means she has abandoned hope of this ever happening, even though it is simultaneously her impetus. Does that make sense?

But that's just me. Some people have different priorities. She seems to really believe all FAs are insane, but I'd like to think that if I were in the same position I wouldn't sacrifice a part of myself unless it was something I'm relatively indifferent to. For example, I would shave my beard off to get a girl, but asking me to cut my hair would be crossing the line. Of course, everything I just said is based on the idea that she did enjoy being fat like she said. If she didn't actually care that much, than whatever, I have no opinion of her actions.

I think one of the problems with FAs on the internet is that the crazy ones are often the vocal ones. Analogous example: think of a Republican and a Democrat - not specific ones, just generic ones. Did you picture an inbred hillbilly with four teeth and a dirty teenager tripping on various cacti? I did. Of course I may be biased... But it's hard to be aggressively _not weird_. Even if freaks are few and far between, they're the ones you _notice_.

Of course there's always the alternative to the rest of this entire post that I'm really just trying to defend myself.


----------



## sweet&fat

I'm still just stunned at the author's clumsy and childish use of language. She wields it like a blunt object- what self-respecting person over the age of 12 uses the phrase "closet cases and retards" to make a point?


----------



## James

Moonchild said:


> Of course there's always the alternative to the rest of this entire post that I'm really just trying to defend myself.



I think thats a natural reaction. The OP and most of the FAs posting in the thread have expressed guarded and 'not me guvna' responses to the 'weirdo' tag... but I get the impression that most of the people posting here (on the main board on dims) arent a lot like the chap in question anyway... At least it seems that way to me? None of the FAs I've actually met in person seem particularly maladjusted or closeted or anything particularly unlike say, the rest of my friends. 

I dont deny these guys exist though... You dont have to look far to see myspace is rife with fatty-collectors and anonymous FAs. Thats less obvious to me here on dims but but I've been shown once or twice the kind of lechy, objectifying stuff that gets written in PMs by some FAs. 

I'm not sure if the problem is bad enough to warrant action but could this kind of drive-by objectification be avoided by removing PM rights from new posters until they have 50 posts or something like that?


----------



## RedVelvet

DoctorBreen said:


> It depends on how you look at it. Every time you masturbate to porn, you're objectifying someone. I admit I do that. Out of sexual attraction, that's granted. Not something you do outside. It's for my own pleasure, and in moderation.
> Sex is probably one of the last things on my mind when I approach a lady I like. If it's for a serious relationship, I want a girl with a personality, who's good to talk to. I wouldn't have sex with a chick just because of her physique. One night stand, maybe, just for fun.
> Freaks who happen to be FAs, are guys who just view real women who they meet in person as sexual objects, nothing more, etc.
> I prefer bigger ladies than is considered "normal", and some related turn ons, :blush: but nothing like the freaky crap some FAs come up with. FA is just a general term for guys who are attracted to big chicks and so on. And those guys can be all sorts of people. Otherwise "average" guys, intellectuals, professionals, even people who you would assume would be anti-fat girl or something, e.g sportsmen. And within the group there are some hardcore fetishist FAs who are so fixated and fetishised, and try to make their fantasies become reality, feeders, hardcore sex, stalkers, disturbing comments, etc.
> Fat fetishists aren't exactly bad if they know control, but the hardcore FAs are often embarrassing and unnerving to behold(no offence). Really lets down the honest, well-intentioned guy who likes big chicks.




Yay, you.

thanks for this.


----------



## RedVelvet

LoveBHMS said:


> True. I like fat guys. If i'm someplace in public and a fat guy walks by, my head will turn. Last week i was at the gym and 'distracted' myself while on the stairmaster by watching a fat guy who was weightlifting (more fun than a stupid magazine or ipod!) If i encounter a fat guy through work or a social event, i'll probably check out his belly.
> 
> That having been said, it's not a fetish for me. I've recently dated a guy who weighs 130 pounds. I've dated fat guys who lost weight. I don't see an attractive man and start thinking "not fat enough.." I sure don't objectify it.
> 
> BUT. Some women do, and i get that. There are women on the BHM board who post about getting upset if a partner loses weight. There are women who if they are not with a SSBHM, just won't get horny enough. There is nothing wrong with those women---it's just how they are.
> 
> What's important is how you act, not how you think.




I love this post so much I want to have its babies.


----------



## RedVelvet

James said:


> I think thats a natural reaction. The OP and most of the FAs posting in the thread have expressed guarded and 'not me guvna' responses to the 'weirdo' tag... but I get the impression that most of the people posting here (on the main board on dims) arent a lot like the chap in question anyway... At least it seems that way to me? None of the FAs I've actually met in person seem particularly maladjusted or closeted or anything particularly unlike say, the rest of my friends.
> 
> I dont deny these guys exist though... You dont have to look far to see myspace is rife with fatty-collectors and anonymous FAs. Thats less obvious to me here on dims but but I've been shown once or twice the kind of lechy, objectifying stuff that gets written in PMs by some FAs.
> 
> I'm not sure if the problem is bad enough to warrant action but could this kind of drive-by objectification be avoided by removing PM rights from new posters until they have 50 posts or something like that?





Ok...I need to step in here and say that there is objectification....and *OBJECTIFICATION*...
Cripes....we ALL objectify, and it can even be hot.

This isn't the issue...its more subtle than that, and we have a few people here (including myself....and _excluding_ James...who is, I admit, a total favorite of mine, and think him very clever and smart and kind....shhhh...he doesnt know..)...wielding blunt instruments to make a point when surgical tools are needed. A lot of the feelings that create the uncomfortableness here are subtle ones...hard to express..

Meanwhile

Guess..what? I GET to think that the fatty frotterism is oddly depressing and strange and not for me. And.... I think...I get to even say it out loud. In my original post I said I will never understand the act.....as a pleasurable one. I never said that all people who like it are freaks.

No matter what ANYone says in their post..no matter how many times everyone inserts caveats stating that HEY...they don't think ALL___________ are __________, someone will *always* come back and say "HEY!! How dare you say all are ___________ and that I am ___________!!" You suck for thinking that way!

Can't win.

Strong language causes strong reactions here, I realize...but what the fuck......

I am also noticing a pattern.. that male posters in this thread and others who used much blunter language than I, whilst in many ways are agreeing with my post, are often not challenged...but many women are called to task for expressing anything other than "everything is good and right and goes...and anything you like is lovely...and yay for you...and anyone who thinks otherwize is a hata"....this is NOT expressed to imply sexism...I just think that the guys get a pass a lot of the times I sure wish I enjoyed.

Sigh.

There are so many things you can't say here.....and so much OUTRAGEOUS stuff you can..I feel like I am walking in a minefield sometimes.


----------



## JMNYC

Of course, we are weirdos.

But I also, just today, bought a 1911 78 RPM recording of John McCormack singing "Macushla" on Ebay.

Some might say that's even weirder!


----------



## RedVelvet

JMNYC said:


> Of course, we are weirdos.
> 
> But I also, just today, bought a 1911 78 RPM recording of John McCormack singing "Macushla" on Ebay.
> 
> Some might say that's even weirder!



You win!

.........of course....this also makes you rather cool.


----------



## EtobicokeFA

Since we are on the subject. 

View attachment lila2007121018508.gif


Enjoy!


----------



## CTAnonymousCT

My ex wife is a bbw who hated the fact that she was fat. ( She recently had WLS ) She thinks I am the weirdest guy in the world ( I am ) because I only like bbw's. She has gone on to inform me, that I only like bbw's because they have insecurity issues. ( LOL I told her you gotta meet AnnMarie and Heather and My Sunchips if you think THATS true!). Many people are going to believe what ever they have chosen to, regardless of whatever they are told. 

I will say that I am not into some of the more "fetish" things some FA's are into. I am not into being squished, nor do I enjoy to her fat more than I enjoy her boobs or other parts. BUT I am not attracted at all to skinny women in general, I like a fat girl, bbw, phat girl, thick, plump whatever you want to call her..Just something about a woman with soft, voluptious curves that does it for this FA. There are a few exceptions..Halle Barry, Lil Kim ( before all her surgery), Jessica Simpson are 3 "celebs" that I find very hot. Anyhoo,,thats my 2 cents...


----------



## RedVelvet

CTAnonymousCT said:


> My ex wife is a bbw who hated the fact that she was fat. ( She recently had WLS ) She thinks I am the weirdest guy in the world ( I am ) because I only like bbw's. She has gone on to inform me, that I only like bbw's because they have insecurity issues. ( LOL I told her you gotta meet AnnMarie and Heather and My Sunchips if you think THATS true!). Many people are going to believe what ever they have chosen to, regardless of whatever they are told.
> 
> I will say that I am not into some of the more "fetish" things some FA's are into. I am not into being squished, nor do I enjoy to her fat more than I enjoy her boobs or other parts. BUT I am not attracted at all to skinny women in general, I like a fat girl, bbw, phat girl, thick, plump whatever you want to call her..Just something about a woman with soft, voluptious curves that does it for this FA. There are a few exceptions..Halle Barry, Lil Kim ( before all her surgery), Jessica Simpson are 3 "celebs" that I find very hot. Anyhoo,,thats my 2 cents...




I like your two cents. See...you come across as every sweet, nice, FA I have ever known in the real world. Un-hung up and cool. Yay, you.


----------



## Spanky

RedVelvet said:


> I like your two cents. See...you come across as every sweet, nice, FA I have ever known in the real world. Un-hung up and cool. Yay, you.



This post is.......


----------



## CTAnonymousCT

RedVelvet said:


> I like your two cents. See...you come across as every sweet, nice, FA I have ever known in the real world. Un-hung up and cool. Yay, you.



Thanks for the compliment, though I am not too sure about the sweet part..I been called ALOT of things, but sweet aint usually one of em! :bow::bow:


----------



## RedVelvet

Spanky said:


> This post is.......




Holy Shit!....I have a stamp!


Since when?

and....I am going to kill you.

(right after I steal this..)

cuz really....my fecking opinion is SO important.


----------



## Spanky

RedVelvet said:


> Holy Shit!....I have a stamp!
> 
> 
> Since when?
> 
> and....I am going to kill you.
> 
> (right after I steal this..)
> 
> cuz really....my fecking opinion is SO important.



It is all yours! a la Spanky. :bow:

I like that it looks all lipsticky. You seem like you might be a lipsticky kinda gal! 

Oh.. and it is red too. That's fecking important too.


----------



## moniquessbbw

goofy girl said:


> I totally agree. There are some wonderful, intelligent, kind FA's out there, however, they seem to be the minority. Or at least, as Lilly mentioned, they aren't as prominent.
> 
> Sadly, the article you quoted seems to describe almost every FA I ever knew. Most of the FA's that I have encountered make me feel used (for the belly, the boobs, the arm fat or whatever it is they are into) and not at all that they genuinely want to know me as a person. They feel that because they admire my body and "treat me like a Goddess" (code word for oral sex, I guess?) meant that I should be OK with them grabbing my fat and shaking it or using the back of my knee as a vagina. Ummmm yeah..NO.
> 
> No idea if any of this makes any sense (what else is new??), but..anyway, I don't think that just being an FA makes someone a freak, but there are definitely FA freaks out there-lots of them.



I have yet to meet a normal FA as well. I have also felt used in the past for my fat. It is hard to meet someone who likes you for who you are as a person and not how far down your belly hangs.


----------



## RedVelvet

Spanky said:


> It is all yours! a la Spanky. :bow:
> 
> I like that it looks all lipsticky. You seem like you might be a lipsticky kinda gal!
> 
> Oh.. and it is red too. That's fecking important too.





Wow...Spanks, Red, and Lipstick? 

How DO you know me so well?

(delighted squeal)..


Scuza da hijacking....


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Jane said:


> I think, personally, people can draw that line wherever they want. I don't see any condemnation as a community, so what's the beef?



I concur.........good point, Jane


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

DoctorBreen said:


> It depends on how you look at it. Every time you masturbate to porn, you're objectifying someone. I admit I do that. Out of sexual attraction, that's granted. Not something you do outside. It's for my own pleasure, and in moderation.



The people in the porn have agreed to be objectified. You can't compare normal relationships or women in general that you have never met before to porn.



**Not saying that YOU did that Dr Breen....just saying the people shouldn't relate porn to reality because it's not


----------



## Les Toil

LillyBBBW said:


> 'fraid so Jay. Some of you FA's are total pervs lacking in the social restraints the good Lord gave to the common mutt.



I suggest you consult with your thinner sisters and see what form of creature they have to contend with on the internet. Trust me, from the testimonials I've heard, us FAs are a breath of fresh air. 

The grass is always greener on the other side and I can't wait for that writer to come out with a follow-up piece about how men are now objectifying her new lean body.


----------



## RedVelvet

dan ex machina said:


> That's one way to turn down a lover's needs.




Ok..first..lets define....need.

You sure its a need? Or is it a desire? I have LOTS of extremely intense desires that I will probably never find a partner with which to act them out with any skill....thank goodness its not a need, no?


----------



## RedVelvet

Les Toil said:


> I suggest you consult with your thinner sisters and see what form of creature they have to contend with on the internet. Trust me, from the testimonials I've heard, us FAs are a breath of fresh air.
> 
> The grass is always greener on the other side and I can't wait for that writer to come out with a follow-up piece about how men are now objectifying her new lean body.




Oh I agree with you........really....in the sense that any person with a specific preference is not unusually screwed up. I think you can find fucked up anywhere.

I offer you ALT.com as a prime place to find absolute batshit crazy mixed in with the sane and smart....and its got nothing to do with size....FAs are there....men who like thin women are there..its a free for all.


I wonder sometimes...its it just the nature of the board itself? My dealings in the real world, yet again....are the real breath of fresh air.... compared to online.


----------



## Paul Delacroix

moniquessbbw said:


> I have yet to meet a normal FA as well. I have also felt used in the past for my fat. It is hard to meet someone who likes you for who you are as a person and not how far down your belly hangs.



Good point!

As opposed to the hundreds of millions of non-FA men who don't want a woman with either a combo of (a) tiny waist and massive boobs; (b) tiny waist and big butt; (c) poufy hair and very long legs, or (d) some combo of the above. 

Just playing Devil's Advocate here.


----------



## waldo

LoveBHMS said:


> In response to your post.
> 
> For some men, fat _is_ a fetish. They can not get sexually aroused unless they are with a fat woman. They just plain need it. For others, they may find fat women attractive, but they can also get attracted to thin women. The fat is more of an aesthetic issue than a sexual one.
> 
> Being obsessed with fat does not make you a creep. Having a fetish does not make you a creep. you can be obsessed with fat and either be, or not be a creep..



I think it is inaccurate to suggest that because a man can only be aroused by a fat woman he has a fat fetish. In the true sense of the term a fat admirer is a man who is only (or at least primarily) sexually turned on by / interested in fat women. Similarly, a homosexual is only sexually turned on by someone of the same sex. Analogously to bisexuals, some men are attracted to fat and thin women. 

A fetish is like someone only being focused on big bellies or big thighs. If a guy is attracted to all parts of the fat woman's body and different body shapes as well as the total package (hair, face, clothes, etc.) he is most certainly not dealing with a fetish.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

I'm not sure I agree with this. A Fetish is defined as "Something someone must have in order to get sexually aroused". That would include fat - by itself. If you cannot even imagine having sex or getting turned on by a thin woman -you have a fat fetish. SO WHAT??? Everyone has a kink or 2. I LOVE feet!! Let's not say a fetish is a bad thing - it's not. IMO





waldo said:


> I think it is inaccurate to suggest that because a man can only be aroused by a fat woman he has a fat fetish. In the true sense of the term a fat admirer is a man who is only (or at least primarily) sexually turned on by / interested in fat women. Similarly, a homosexual is only sexually turned on by someone of the same sex. Analogously to bisexuals, some men are attracted to fat and thin women.
> 
> A fetish is like someone only being focused on big bellies or big thighs. If a guy is attracted to all parts of the fat woman's body and different body shapes as well as the total package (hair, face, clothes, etc.) he is most certainly not dealing with a fetish.


----------



## chunkeymonkey

I personally know a few guys that are FA's who do more lurking and reading on Dimensions. Most have told me that they feel intimidated to actually post because they sense a significant antagonistic atmosphere toward FAs who present themselves as anything less than having it all together - lest they be discounted as ' gutless whiners'. I have met a few of them and they seem to be a great catch, normal guys with normal FA fantasies although often a bit insecure about their sexuality. I have also experienced a lot of the totally crass guys with their enquiries about how much I eat or weight I plan to gain. 

One thing I continue to have a hard time with is understanding the distinction between FA's fantasies and how they incorporate their preferences into their real lives. It has been great to understand feedback that I have read and received from all the posts I have read here. But it has also been discouraging to see many FAs and other members have been run off for voicing their views. I guess so much for free speech. Everyone is entitled to their voice, you should never feel like a freak for how you feel. Thats my 2 cents....... haha and if I still lived in Canada it would be 2.01 cents 




Jay West Coast said:


> I was flipping through the cover article in the SFWeekly this morning at my local coffeeshop. The author had weight loss surgery two years ago, but I decided to read it anyway out of pure curiosity. The author goes on about how she actually cherished being 360, but in the world in which fat people have to live, it became "unreasonable" to not to live as a thin person.
> 
> As she discusses her life experience being fat (which is well written and I think people ought to be more educated to what the fat experience is), she writes a chapter about dating FA's:
> 
> 
> 
> After reading this, I felt really strange. Is it true? Are we weirdoes? If this liberal ultra-accepting newspaper labels us as fetishistic bucketcases, maybe I've been thinking of this all wrong.
> 
> What are your experiences with FA's? Are they the wonderful intentions of creation made to appreciate fat women for the beautiful beings they are, or a collection of fellers who could use some counseling? Was this author's experience indicative, or unfortunate and off-base?
> 
> (And, yes, part of me is posting this to hear self-affirming points that FA's are not freaks.)


----------



## Angel

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I'm not sure I agree with this. A Fetish is defined as "Something someone must have in order to get sexually aroused". That would include fat - by itself. If you cannot even imagine having sex or getting turned on by a thin woman -you have a fat fetish. SO WHAT??? Everyone has a kink or 2. I LOVE feet!! Let's not say a fetish is a bad thing - it's not. IMO



I think a fetish has to do with *an object* (example: I have to smell or feel leather against my skin in order to become aroused and in order to climax) or *a body part* (example: I have to be with a woman whose belly hangs past her knees in order to become aroused and in order to climax). A fetish usually involves something tactile or something that appeals to one or more of the senses. 

I think that a preference (as in that of a fat admirer) has to do with an affinity or attraction to a certain body type -or shape- of the *whole and complete human being*; and not to just a specific body part or partial component of said human's body. 


*Some* fat admirers do have a fetish for the fat specifically; or may have a fetish for a particular body part (belly or fat rolls); or may have a fetish involving the physical changes that being fat bring (stretch marks, cellulite, dimpled skin); etc. 

*NOT ALL* fat admirers have a fetish. Some are simply turned on by the woman who happens to be fat. They can become aroused because of the attraction they feel to the person, and not necessarily _need to have or experience_ anything involving the tactile sensations of the fat or of a particular fat body part. 


The difference:

A fat admirer becomes aroused when he gently caresses and tenderly touches a woman who happens to be fat. It could be as simple as touching her upper arms and shoulders or caressing her face. 


Someone who has a fat fetish _needs_ to touch or stroke or grab or feel or shake or visualize the fat flesh or fat body part in order to become aroused and in order to climax. 


Some fat admirers may partake in some of the more tactile of the above described activities; but they don't necessarily _*need*_ to participate in the activity in order to become aroused or in order to climax; so therefore for them it isn't a fetish.



That's my understanding.



I don't think that all fat admirers want to be thought of as having a fetish for fat; or for a particular fat body part; or for any particular activity that involves a fat body part.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

I disagree.  I don't think a fetish is a bad thing. There is very little difference in your descriptions. 

I don't mind being the object of a fetish. It's just more human sexuality. IMO. 




fet·ish also fet·ich (ftsh, ftsh)
n.
1. An object that is believed to have magical or spiritual powers, especially such an object associated with animistic or shamanistic religious practices.
2. An object of unreasonably excessive attention or reverence: made a fetish of punctuality.
3. Something, such as a material object or a nonsexual part of the body, that arouses sexual desire and may become necessary for sexual gratification.
4. An abnormally obsessive preoccupation or attachment; a fixation.





Angel said:


> I think a fetish has to do with *an object* (example: I have to smell or feel leather against my skin in order to become aroused and in order to climax) or *a body part* (example: I have to be with a woman whose belly hangs past her knees in order to become aroused and in order to climax). A fetish usually involves something tactile or something that appeals to one or more of the senses.
> 
> I think that a preference (as in that of a fat admirer) has to do with an affinity or attraction to a certain body type -or shape- of the *whole and complete human being*; and not to just a specific body part or partial component of said human's body.
> 
> 
> *Some* fat admirers do have a fetish for the fat specifically; or may have a fetish for a particular body part (belly or fat rolls); or may have a fetish involving the physical changes that being fat bring (stretch marks, cellulite, dimpled skin); etc.
> 
> *NOT ALL* fat admirers have a fetish. Some are simply turned on by the woman who happens to be fat. They can become aroused because of the attraction they feel to the person, and not necessarily _need to have or experience_ anything involving the tactile sensations of the fat or of a particular fat body part.
> 
> 
> The difference:
> 
> A fat admirer becomes aroused when he gently caresses and tenderly touches a woman who happens to be fat. It could be as simple as touching her upper arms and shoulders or caressing her face.
> 
> 
> Someone who has a fat fetish _needs_ to touch or stroke or grab or feel or shake or visualize the fat flesh or fat body part in order to become aroused and in order to climax.
> 
> 
> Some fat admirers may partake in some of the more tactile of the above described activities; but they don't necessarily _*need*_ to participate in the activity in order to become aroused or in order to climax; so therefore for them it isn't a fetish.
> 
> 
> 
> That's my understanding.


----------



## Angel

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I disagree.  I don't think a fetish is a bad thing. There is very little difference in your descriptions.
> 
> I don't mind being the object of a fetish. It's just more human sexuality. IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fet·ish also fet·ich (ftsh, ftsh)
> n.
> 1. An object that is believed to have magical or spiritual powers, especially such an object associated with animistic or shamanistic religious practices.
> 2. An object of unreasonably excessive attention or reverence: made a fetish of punctuality.
> 3. Something, such as a material object or a nonsexual part of the body, that arouses sexual desire and may become necessary for sexual gratification.
> 4. An abnormally obsessive preoccupation or attachment; a fixation.




I'm not necessarily saying that a fetish is a bad thing. If two consenting adults are turned on by the same thing, or are curious about trying something, hey, go for it.

I think this will explain my feelings better. I don't mind participating in something with my s.o. if it is something that both of us want and enjoy doing - even if it is something that may be considered as a fat fetish related activity.

Ultimately though, I would rather be the object of his affection than the object of a fetish.

That's just me, though. 


Just because I may not prefer every fat fetish related activity doesn't make me any less of a sexual being or any less in tune with my sexuality. I'll say no more about that! I'm already blushing!


----------



## DoctorBreen

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> The people in the porn have agreed to be objectified. You can't compare normal relationships or women in general that you have never met before to porn.
> 
> 
> 
> **Not saying that YOU did that Dr Breen....just saying the people shouldn't relate porn to reality because it's not



I agree, that's why it's acceptable. And no, I don't relate porn to reality.


----------



## Jes

Paul Delacroix said:


> Good point!
> 
> As opposed to the hundreds of millions of non-FA men who don't want a woman with either a combo of (a) tiny waist and massive boobs; (b) tiny waist and big butt; (c) poufy hair and very long legs, or (d) some combo of the above.
> 
> Just playing Devil's Advocate here.



i'm wondering about another layer of stuff that complicates this issue, for me. What about the very common notion that my fat is some sort of political or sexual statement on my part. That it's my greatest turn-on? That because I'm now fat, I must have made a concerted effort to become so, with physical and sexual motivations underlying the efforts.

I don't know whether thinner women have this experience; I can't know, I'm not thin. Never have been (well, after the beginnings of puberty. And I wasn't a binge eater, a pillow-in-the-clothes stuffer, a girl turned on by inflation, etc., though I respect that some women are). 

But this issue is the single biggest disconnect and disappointment for me, frankly, in the Dims fat world. Men assuming that I have a strong sexual connection to my fat, as opposed to my body, which happens to be fat. If fat isn't your thing (even if you are fat), you're never really going to feel totally...in tune with someone who thinks it is, or should be.

My opinion alone, of course. And I'm not saying FAs shouldn't desire, or want, fat partners. I'm saying that if the 2 of you don't see ...eye to eye on fat, and you FAs are very vocal about it, especially 12 seconds into a conversation, it's not a good match. For either of you.

oh, and ps? the next dude who tells me i hate my body b/c I go to the gym, or that I should totally find my fat the sexiest thing about me, and so on, is going to get a huge kick in the ass. It's not my fetish, get over it. Find someone for whom it IS a major turn-on. And don't tell me I'm fucked up because that's not me.


----------



## RedVelvet

Jes said:


> But this issue is the single biggest disconnect and disappointment for me, frankly, in the Dims fat world. Men assuming that I have a strong sexual connection to my fat, as opposed to my body, which happens to be fat. If fat isn't your thing (even if you are fat), you're never really going to feel totally...in tune with someone who thinks it is, or should be.
> 
> 
> oh, and ps? the next dude who tells me i hate my body b/c I go to the gym, or that I should totally find my fat the sexiest thing about me, and so on, is going to get a huge kick in the ass. It's not my fetish, get over it. Find someone for whom it IS a major turn-on. And don't tell me I'm fucked up because that's not me.




Well...fuck yeah! Wish I could rep this!


My body is my body....I love it because its mine, but my fat neither delights nor repels me in any way....its just me...like my hands and nose and feet.

Please don't think there is something wrong with me because just being in this body doesn't give me a moistie every minute of the damn day. That's your kick.

How about you tie me up and enjoy it? Then we both win.

ahem.


----------



## Jane

RedVelvet said:


> Well...fuck yeah! Wish I could rep this!
> 
> 
> My body is my body....I love it because its mine, but my fat neither delights nor repels me in any way....its just me...like my hands and nose and feet.
> 
> Please don't think there is something wrong with me because just being in this body doesn't give me a moistie every minute of the damn day. That's your kick.
> 
> How about you tie me up and enjoy it? Then we both win.
> 
> ahem.



Kinda like guys who say, "If I had boobs, I'd just sit around playing with them all day." No, you wouldn't. They're boobs and after a few years of carrying them around...nice to show but get sore when you play with them all the time.


----------



## mossystate

All these uppity women...the fat boat is gonna tip if you all don't sit down..now..thanks.


----------



## Jon Blaze

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I disagree.  I don't think a fetish is a bad thing. There is very little difference in your descriptions.
> 
> I don't mind being the object of a fetish. It's just more human sexuality. IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> fet·ish also fet·ich (ftsh, ftsh)
> n.
> 1. An object that is believed to have magical or spiritual powers, especially such an object associated with animistic or shamanistic religious practices.
> 2. An object of unreasonably excessive attention or reverence: made a fetish of punctuality.
> 3. Something, such as a material object or a nonsexual part of the body, that arouses sexual desire and may become necessary for sexual gratification.
> 4. An abnormally obsessive preoccupation or attachment; a fixation.



Ok. I'm going to start this by saying: By your definition, I don't have a fetish, because I'm non-exclusive. I nonetheless disagree.

We're talking about objectivity. That being the case, that has to go both ways. If it has to be present for sexual gratification, it also have to be objectively defined as sexually gratifying, independent of people involved. If I have a fetish for S&M, does that mean that everytime I want to have intercourse, I'm grabbing the whips and chains? Maybe, maybe not. But that is a fetish, because it's an activity you do.  

In other words: No weight preferences within this preference (No I like BBWs, but not SSBBWS, or whatever! Scratch that! ), no "Wow. For a thin chick, she's actually hot" (No exceptions to the rule!), no "I think she's a hot fat girl, and her friend isn't that great at the same weight," none of that at all! It has to always be seen as good (Maybe even go farther and say "Bigger is always better" as a _ strict_ paradigm), meaning that the woman (Or man for the BHM admirers) can't have anything to do with it whatsoever. We can't prefer (Or even worse: REQUIRE!!! ONOZ! ) shapes, we can't talk hair, we can't talk sizes, we can't talk personalities, we can't say anything about the woman. If she's 300 pounds: We're suppose to go Blanka on her!






WHAT?!??!?! 300 pounds?!?! RAWRRRRRR! 

Preference would of course imply that more often than not, someone picks something over another, but not objectively in that the former can never be seen as any degree of good (Or better than), and the latter can't have any variation whatsoever. It has to be independent of people invovled, and that's the definition of "Objective."

I know a lot of FAs have had experiences with thin women that are poor, but a lot haven't. I'm not saying they should give a try if they don't want to (Far from it!), but I have heard stories of FAs still living with thinner women as partners, due to fate. I mean, it's only one trait among all the traits of dating. Relationships are complex.

Take SlackerFA for example:
He has a preference for a larger women, and a "Kink" for ssbbws. He has said, however, that even if it's slim to none (Like 1/1000000000000000000 ), he could end up with a thin woman. He's probably not going to openly seek them (And it's probably exceedingly rare ), but you never know. Aw snap! Curveball! Hehe... a pun.


Since there's variety with how the traits involved with a relationships are weighed, even if I or anyone was exclusive, those other things can't be included. I'm 50/50 with looks and personality, so I will *immediately* dismiss the idea of dating the hottest woman in my mind if I can't get along with her enough to date her. Even if I was exclusive: I would do the same thing. ^_^
Personality can be sexy too. ^_^

I don't want to be rude, but there's very few FAs that objectively see every larger woman as being attractive enough to date. I am terribly sorry, but that is a *BIG* pipe dream.

The ones that do are fine, and they might just be fetishists. The ones that don't that are exclusive still aren't necessarily. Variety is variety.

Now I do believe that some (See: most) agree with the whole "Bigger is always better" paradigm, but not everyone that is exclusive does (A), and not everyone thinks that fat *objectively* (Or I was just going to say always) enhances beauty. I don't, and my views on beauty don't coincide with that. Why? It's the woman that makes the object, and that is one of the many reasons why I try to appreciate beauty the way it comes.

I'm still not trying to be rude, but I don't think fat women are automatically attractive simply because they're fat. I don't think that for thin women either. If someone is exclusive (Whether it's something prefer/require), they are not automatically categorized as fetishists, if they don't objectively see that as being always gratifying, regardless of form.

Mr. Zitkus LOVES YOU!!!!! Don't you appreciate the fact that he picked you as being unique out a bevy of larger women!??!! DON'T CHA?!?!?! ^_^

But it's ok either way: If you have a fetish: Just treat your partner right. If you don't: Do the same.


----------



## Alias Registration

i feel so sad for the author of the story in first post  i'm sure she was beautiful.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

John I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here.

Everybody seems to be taking fetish as a bad thing. It's not.





Jon Blaze said:


> Ok. I'm going to start this by saying: By your definition, I don't have a fetish, because I'm non-exclusive. I nonetheless disagree.
> 
> We're talking about objectivity. That being the case, that has to go both ways. If it has to be present for sexual gratification, it also have to be objectively defined as sexually gratifying, independent of people involved. If I have a fetish for S&M, does that mean that everytime I want to have intercourse, I'm grabbing the whips and chains? Maybe, maybe not. But that is a fetish, because it's an activity you do.
> 
> In other words: No weight preferences within this preference (No I like BBWs, but not SSBBWS, or whatever! Scratch that! ), no "Wow. For a thin chick, she's actually hot" (No exceptions to the rule!), no "I think she's a hot fat girl, and her friend isn't that great at the same weight," none of that at all! It has to always be seen as good (Maybe even go farther and say "Bigger is always better" as a _ strict_ paradigm), meaning that the woman (Or man for the BHM admirers) can't have anything to do with it whatsoever. We can't prefer (Or even worse: REQUIRE!!! ONOZ! ) shapes, we can't talk hair, we can't talk sizes, we can't talk personalities, we can't say anything about the woman. If she's 300 pounds: We're suppose to go Blanka on her!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHAT?!??!?! 300 pounds?!?! RAWRRRRRR!
> 
> Preference would of course imply that more often than not, someone picks something over another, but not objectively in that the former can never be seen as any degree of good (Or better than), and the latter can't have any variation whatsoever. It has to be independent of people invovled, and that's the definition of "Objective."
> 
> I know a lot of FAs have had experiences with thin women that are poor, but a lot haven't. I'm not saying they should give a try if they don't want to (Far from it!), but I have heard stories of FAs still living with thinner women as partners, due to fate. I mean, it's only one trait among all the traits of dating. Relationships are complex.
> 
> Take SlackerFA for example:
> He has a preference for a larger women, and a "Kink" for ssbbws. He has said, however, that even if it's slim to none (Like 1/1000000000000000000 ), he could end up with a thin woman. He's probably not going to openly seek them (And it's probably exceedingly rare ), but you never know. Aw snap! Curveball! Hehe... a pun.
> 
> 
> Since there's variety with how the traits involved with a relationships are weighed, even if I or anyone was exclusive, those other things can't be included. I'm 50/50 with looks and personality, so I will *immediately* dismiss the idea of dating the hottest woman in my mind if I can't get along with her enough to date her. Even if I was exclusive: I would do the same thing. ^_^
> Personality can be sexy too. ^_^
> 
> I don't want to be rude, but there's very few FAs that objectively see every larger woman as being attractive enough to date. I am terribly sorry, but that is a *BIG* pipe dream.
> 
> The ones that do are fine, and they might just be fetishists. The ones that don't that are exclusive still aren't necessarily. Variety is variety.
> 
> Now I do believe that some (See: most) agree with the whole "Bigger is always better" paradigm, but not everyone that is exclusive does (A), and not everyone thinks that fat *objectively* (Or I was just going to say always) enhances beauty. I don't, and my views on beauty don't coincide with that. Why? It's the woman that makes the object, and that is one of the many reasons why I try to appreciate beauty the way it comes.
> 
> I'm still not trying to be rude, but I don't think fat women are automatically attractive simply because they're fat. I don't think that for thin women either. If someone is exclusive (Whether it's something prefer/require), they are not automatically categorized as fetishists, if they don't objectively see that as being always gratifying, regardless of form.
> 
> Mr. Zitkus LOVES YOU!!!!! Don't you appreciate the fact that he picked you as being unique out a bevy of larger women!??!! DON'T CHA?!?!?! ^_^
> 
> But it's ok either way: If you have a fetish: Just treat your partner right. If you don't: Do the same.


----------



## Smushygirl

You know this thread alternates between being interesting and getting on my nerves.

From what I can see, it seems like the women here are sharing their experiences with *some* FA's, and the men are complaining about being stereotyped. I heartily concur with a lot of the bad experiences some of the women have had with *some* FA's. I haven't lost my mind enough to think that it is all of them.

OK, here's my devil's advocate question: Men, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to behave better? Are you going to vilify men that act that way? Or are you going to whine about it and stay safe behind your monitors? I mean what the women here post, on the entire site, is actually a blueprint for how they want to be treated and approached and all I am hearing from you is how society downs FA's??!!! That is a load of crazy!!!

And for all you virgin guys (and there are many whether they admit it or not) on here preaching about fat ladies, I say this: GO OUT AND HAVE SEX!!! Get in a real relationship with a real fat girl or woman and treat her nice, not just as a means to an end!

Back in the olden days when I was coming along, I had to have sex to find out what I liked and disliked and to develop my fetishes. I didn't have the internet to get all fetishy first. If you were here looking at the ladies before having sex, you were developing a fetish, no matter how much you may protest.

Not that I think that fetishes are bad, I have a few myself. :batting:


----------



## mossystate

Smushy is kinda cool and groovy..and right on the fucking money....* bows *


----------



## RedVelvet

Go Smushy...Go Smushy...Go Smushy...Go Smushy...!

xoxoxo


----------



## Wagimawr

wrongwrongwrongwrongwrong


----------



## RedVelvet

Wagimawr said:


> translation: virgins can't have fetishes, only turnons?
> 
> makes sense, I guess



Yes...thats EXACTLY what she MEANT...totally what she intended....because she is irrational and stupid..

EXACTLY.....how DID you figure it out?!?!


----------



## Wagimawr

wrongwrongwrongwrongwrong


----------



## Paul Delacroix

Smushygirl said:


> You know this thread alternates between being interesting and getting on my nerves.
> 
> From what I can see, it seems like the women here are sharing their experiences with *some* FA's, and the men are complaining about being stereotyped. I heartily concur with a lot of the bad experiences some of the women have had with *some* FA's. I haven't lost my mind enough to think that it is all of them.
> 
> OK, here's my devil's advocate question: Men, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to behave better? Are you going to vilify men that act that way? Or are you going to whine about it and stay safe behind your monitors? I mean what the women here post, on the entire site, is actually a blueprint for how they want to be treated and approached and all I am hearing from you is how society downs FA's??!!! That is a load of crazy!!!



Actually what I was saying was that FAs have a bad image that they have largely brought on themselves---but that mainstream society tends to reinforce it, partially as a means of denying the attractiveness of fat women.

Think about it. Nerd-FA/Pervie Feeder = Validation of the Idea that Fat Women are Unattractive. 

If 'the only men fat women can attract' are candidates for the Jerry Springer Show, what does that say about fat women? It's a calculated insult.

As to the fetish factor, the near-universal consensus here is that sexual fetishes are okay--but in addition to that, I an attempting to point out that mainstream society's image of what constitutes an attractive woman is just as fetishistic as anything on these boards.


----------



## Smushygirl

mossystate said:


> Smushy is kinda cool and groovy..and right on the fucking money....* bows *





RedVelvet said:


> Go Smushy...Go Smushy...Go Smushy...Go Smushy...!
> 
> xoxoxo



Thanks, Dollfaces!!! :bow::kiss2:




Wagimawr said:


> translation: virgins can't have fetishes, only turnons?
> 
> makes sense, I guess



Er, uh...no.



RedVelvet said:


> Yes...thats EXACTLY what she MEANT...totally what she intended....because she is irrational and stupid..
> 
> EXACTLY.....how DID you figure it out?!?!



Perhaps semaphorore or American Sign Language would help. I never understand why men and women don't understand one another. But I keep trying.


----------



## RedVelvet

Wagimawr said:


> awesome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't have fetishes to be ashamed of I have turnons to fear because they may one day turn into fetishes to be ashamed of
> 
> take thy snark and shove it




And back atcha times two, if you SERIOUSLY meant the original question, Mister.

Surely you are a little too intelligent to be that fucking obtuse.


You arent ACTUALLY saying that you didnt understand that what she was trying to say was basically.."If you don't get out there and experience real flesh, you will just develop fantasy that is more abstract and "fetishy" than real world based sensory input?" That there is nothing wrong with fetish but without real world experience, its rather unbalanced?

OK.


----------



## Smushygirl

Paul Delacroix said:


> Actually what I was saying was that FAs have a bad image that they have largely brought on themselves---but that mainstream society tends to reinforce it, partially as a means of denying the attractiveness of fat women.
> 
> Think about it. Nerd-FA/Pervie Feeder = Validation of the Idea that Fat Women are Unattractive.
> 
> If 'the only men fat women can attract' are candidates for the Jerry Springer Show, what does that say about fat women? It's a calculated insult.
> 
> As to the fetish factor, the near-universal consensus here is that sexual fetishes are okay--but in addition to that, *I an attempting to point out that mainstream society's image of what constitutes an attractive woman is just as fetishistic as anything on these boards*.



OK, Paul. I'll buy that. But does that make it right, either here or on "mainstream society"? Whatever that is? For what it's worth, you have to remember, I am out of a lot of "mainstreams", I'm smart, I'm Black, I'm a woman and I'm fat.


----------



## Jon Blaze

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> John I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here.
> 
> Everybody seems to be taking fetish as a bad thing. It's not.



It's different, but it's not bad, hence why I said it wasn't twice.

All I was trying to say is that Fat Admiration is not objective. It can be, and that's fine, but it isn't simply based on having the trait.


----------



## Wagimawr

RedVelvet said:


> You arent ACTUALLY saying that you didnt understand that what she was trying to say was basically.."If you don't get out there and experience real flesh, you will just develop fantasy that is more abstract and "fetishy" than real world based sensory input?" That there is nothing wrong with fetish but without real world experience, its rather unbalanced?


Got that part, as well as the "don't just use women as a means to an end" message, i.e., women are people too, not simply masturbatory icons.

Hence my edit to the original posts.


----------



## RedVelvet

Wagimawr said:


> Got that part, as well as the "don't just use women as a means to an end" message, i.e., women are people too, not simply masturbatory icons.
> 
> Hence my edit to the original posts.




oh my.

well....thats very different.




Nevermind.

:batting: 

View attachment litella.jpg


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

And here we are back on the same side of this issue again. 

I agree with this post completely. 




Paul Delacroix said:


> Actually what I was saying was that FAs have a bad image that they have largely brought on themselves---but that mainstream society tends to reinforce it, partially as a means of denying the attractiveness of fat women.
> 
> Think about it. Nerd-FA/Pervie Feeder = Validation of the Idea that Fat Women are Unattractive.
> 
> If 'the only men fat women can attract' are candidates for the Jerry Springer Show, what does that say about fat women? It's a calculated insult.
> 
> As to the fetish factor, the near-universal consensus here is that sexual fetishes are okay--but in addition to that, I an attempting to point out that mainstream society's image of what constitutes an attractive woman is just as fetishistic as anything on these boards.


----------



## Jes

Smushygirl said:


> I am out of a lot of "mainstreams", I'm smart, I'm Black, I'm a woman and I'm fat.



Me too! Preach it!


I think I was trying to talk about this in another thread a while back... all of the anger from male FAs over the guys who post to and look at VeryFatWomen. My stance is that most every man here has used those photos, or joined groups like that, or collected photos like that. I get it. I do. I get it. I don't like it, but I understand it. It's free candy. When my hand is on my peener, I'll use whatever's around (and sometimes, that's a photo of Kid Rock on the cover of Rolling Stone, so clearly, I have no stringent requirements nor any shame), too. But to hate the VeryFatWomen types, including all of those who sign on, as if just about every guy here hasn't done something similar...eh. You know? I don't buy it. If you disagree, then I respect that, but I don't buy it. Especially after we read about coming out via googling fat chicks online, collecting tons of photos from diet sites, or whatever, and gettin.it.awn with themselves. It's not the end of the world, but I wish I didn't feel scared to say what I think about that, when my position makes all the sense in the world. I read what a lot of FAs say, and when I mention it later in my own words, then I'm maligning them. Come on. Can the Subaltern Speak? (Spivak. Sorry.)


----------



## Jon Blaze

First: I agree with what Paul said.



Smushygirl said:


> You know this thread alternates between being interesting and getting on my nerves.
> From what I can see, it seems like the women here are sharing their experiences with *some* FA's, and the men are complaining about being stereotyped. I heartily concur with a lot of the bad experiences some of the women have had with *some* FA's. I haven't lost my mind enough to think that it is all of them.


That's fine.



Smushygirl said:


> OK, here's my devil's advocate question: Men, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to behave better?



I don't know what's wrong with what I do. The physical part is about what I see: Not what I hear.



Smushygirl said:


> Are you going to vilify men that act that way?


I could, but it I doubt it would help. That's one focal point of this thread with what you see, and what the FAs see in the woman's point: "You can lead a jackass to water, but you can't make 'em drink."



Smushygirl said:


> I mean what the women here post, on the entire site, is actually a blueprint for how they want to be treated and approached and all I am hearing from you is how society downs FA's??!!! That is a load of crazy!!!


I hope I wasn't implying that. I think all the FAs that have posted have said something along the lines of "Yes there's crazies, but no it's not a standard." That is what I think we have beef with: Trying to identify that trait by saying it in itself makes men irregular based on one experience.



Smushygirl said:


> And for all you virgin guys (and there are many whether they admit it or not) on here preaching about fat ladies, I say this: GO OUT AND HAVE SEX!!! Get in a real relationship with a real fat girl or woman and treat her nice, not just as a means to an end!


(Off topic)
I'm kind of screwed there: BMT in May, then tech school. I can barely use my cell phone there, let alone be around women of any size for long periods of time. 
But of course afterwards: Yea. I plan on doing that, but right now I'm completely fucked (Metaphorically speaking that is).



Smushygirl said:


> Back in the olden days when I was coming along, I had to have sex to find out what I liked and disliked and to develop my fetishes. I didn't have the internet to get all fetishy first. If you were here looking at the ladies before having sex, you were developing a fetish, no matter how much you may protest.



What I have is not objective ( I never intended for it to be that way), and it's still changing. The images I see and get happy about  aren't all the same in any way. Beyonce- Pretty. Smushygirl- Also pretty.  

Anywho: We're sorry!!!


----------



## Fascinita

Alias Registration said:


> i feel so sad for the author of the story in first post  i'm sure she was beautiful.



Oh, please. What? One fewer fat woman? Take heart, fat is on the wax, and there are plenty of others to ogle.


----------



## ripley

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> fet·ish also fet·ich (ftsh, ftsh)
> n.
> 4. An abnormally obsessive preoccupation or attachment; a fixation.





Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Everybody seems to be taking fetish as a bad thing. It's not.



It is when it's number four. From where I'm sitting, anyway. It's boring, and creepy when it's pushed on you from strangers, and WAY too prevalent in our community.


----------



## Fascinita

Smushygirl said:


> You know this thread alternates between being interesting and getting on my nerves.
> 
> From what I can see, it seems like the women here are sharing their experiences with *some* FA's, and the men are complaining about being stereotyped. I heartily concur with a lot of the bad experiences some of the women have had with *some* FA's. I haven't lost my mind enough to think that it is all of them.
> 
> OK, here's my devil's advocate question: Men, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to behave better? Are you going to vilify men that act that way? Or are you going to whine about it and stay safe behind your monitors? I mean what the women here post, on the entire site, is actually a blueprint for how they want to be treated and approached and all I am hearing from you is how society downs FA's??!!! That is a load of crazy!!!
> 
> And for all you virgin guys (and there are many whether they admit it or not) on here preaching about fat ladies, I say this: GO OUT AND HAVE SEX!!! Get in a real relationship with a real fat girl or woman and treat her nice, not just as a means to an end!
> 
> Back in the olden days when I was coming along, I had to have sex to find out what I liked and disliked and to develop my fetishes. I didn't have the internet to get all fetishy first. If you were here looking at the ladies before having sex, you were developing a fetish, no matter how much you may protest.
> 
> Not that I think that fetishes are bad, I have a few myself. :batting:



Smart, to-the-point, real. Thanks, Smushy-kins. That's all.


----------



## Frankhw

ripley said:


> It is when it's number four. From where I'm sitting, anyway. It's boring, and creepy when it's pushed on you from strangers, and WAY too prevalent in our community.



Unfortunately things like people pushing what they want on other people reguardless of what the other person may want are way to prevalent in SOCIETY period.


----------



## Alias Registration

Fascinita said:


> Oh, please. What? One fewer fat woman? Take heart, fat is on the wax, and there are plenty of others to ogle.


that she felt like she needed to loose weight to find love.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

ripley said:


> It is when it's number four. From where I'm sitting, anyway. It's boring, and creepy when it's pushed on you from strangers, and WAY too prevalent in our community.



Ripley - 

Whatever is OK between 2 adults is OK.

I'm not talking about creepy guys who stalk you.

A fetish is not a perversion - they are 2 different things. IMO

If you don't want to be liked for your fat - why are you socializing in a fat community???

And have you talked to skinny women lately about their dating scene? I have thin girlfriends - the men want:

Bigger boobs
bigger lips
Smaller thighs
Bigger buts
Longer hair
Blonde hair

SSDD.

I'm not being flippant - I'm sincere in my question. ??? I don't understand this mind set.


----------



## Jane

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Ripley -
> 
> Whatever is OK between 2 adults is OK.
> 
> I'm not talking about creepy guys who stalk you.
> 
> A fetish is not a perversion - they are 2 different things. IMO
> 
> If you don't want to be liked for your fat - why are you socializing in a fat community???
> 
> And have you talked to skinny women lately about their dating scene? I have thin girlfriends - the men want:
> 
> Bigger boobs
> bigger lips
> Smaller thighs
> Bigger buts
> Longer hair
> Blonde hair
> 
> SSDD.
> 
> I'm not being flippant - I'm sincere in my question. ??? I don't understand this mind set.



Not everyone is here to meet someone of the opposite sex to hook up with. I assume you're not, Sandie.

And I understand perfectly. I've never looked for someone to just love my fat. If they don't love me what is the point?


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Jane said:


> Not everyone is here to meet someone of the opposite sex to hook up with. I assume you're not, Sandie.
> 
> And I understand perfectly. I've never looked for someone to just love my fat. If they don't love me what is the point?



Now wait a minute - were we not discussing single people who want to be loved for who they are and not their fat??? That's what I was discussing.

If someone is here in a community that is clearly defined as one for fat people and those who love them and then complains that they don't want to meet men who love their fat - I'm confused as to where the problem lies. The men who love fat women, and are only stating their preference in a community where it is supposed to be safe to do so? Or the women who are rejecting them and criticizing their preference because they are not comfortable with their own fat bodies. And don't tell me it's not that because that is a BIG part of it.

Any why does it matter why I am here??


----------



## Jane

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Any why does it matter why I am here??



Because personalization is personalization. 

Any of this could have been discussed without YOU getting personal, but you didn't take that path.

I assumed that you were here for fellowship, a sense of belonging, meeting people who share some aspect of their lives with some aspects of yours, and the wittiness of many of the posters. I think that was a safe assumption, and there certainly is nothing wrong with it. Were you here for any other reason that would be something to be addressed by you, Wayne, and whoever else would be involved, not for the general population of Dims unless you cared to make it so. While we share a lot here, we have some right to privacy.

Maybe you think I'm strange because my sole purpose here isn't to be idolized for my fat. I think I've had the chance to engage with some wonderful people, many of whom both of us like.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Jane I was discussing single people here to meet each other. If you are not here to meet a SO I am not talking about you. Why I am here is not part of the equation. I've been around here for almost 20 years. But none of that matters. Is this a personal issue - yes some of it is. As a fat woman married to an FA the constant dismissal and down right anger thrown at FA's is personal seeing as I am married to one and my closest friend is one.

But - I really don't know why most people are here unless they say something. I couldn't care less why you or anyone else is here, it's none of my business unless they start a conversation about it. And when some of the posters start complaining about the men they have met through this place THEY (not me) made it personal. 

It may surprise you to know that I don't care if you are here to be worshiped for your fat or not. I'm not - I get that at home. 

But my point after all this beating around the bush is - if you don't want to meet men (I am using the collective YOU) who love fat women why would You (collective again) look to _meet men_ in a place like Dimensions? I'm puzzled by that and actually I think some of the good guys are being thrown out with the relative small percentage of creeps.

Let me ask you this Jane. Do you think if you hated hispanics you should join a singles group for Hispanics and then complain about only meeting Hispanic men?? Yeah sure you would probably meet some wonderful women and make some great friends but do you then have the right to criticize the men you meet??

I'm addressing single people who are here to meet me - that's all.









Jane said:


> Because personalization is personalization.
> 
> Any of this could have been discussed without YOU getting personal, but you didn't take that path.
> 
> I assumed that you were here for fellowship, a sense of belonging, meeting people who share some aspect of their lives with some aspects of yours, and the wittiness of many of the posters. I think that was a safe assumption, and there certainly is nothing wrong with it. Were you here for any other reason that would be something to be addressed by you, Wayne, and whoever else would be involved, not for the general population of Dims unless you cared to make it so. While we share a lot here, we have some right to privacy.
> 
> Maybe you think I'm strange because my sole purpose here isn't to be idolized for my fat. I think I've had the chance to engage with some wonderful people, many of whom both of us like.


----------



## TraciJo67

I don't think that any single woman who posts here was saying that she doesn't want to meet a man who doesn't love her fat. What I'm reading is that she wants a man who desires HER -- all of the unique attributes that make up WHO she is, not WHAT she is. In other words, the soft, curvy, fat body is an added attraction ... not the primary object of immediately lustful and often creepy behavior from complete strangers.

I suppose I should throw in the standard disclaimer that I'm not referring to all, or even most men who post at Dims. I'm referring to the few who troll for fat women, apparently ANY fat woman, quite aggressively and inappropriately.


----------



## Jane

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Jane I was discussing single people here to meet each other. If you are not here to meet a SO I am not talking about you. Why I am here is not part of the equation. I've been around here for almost 20 years. But none of that matters. Is this a personal issue - yes some of it is. As a fat woman married to an FA the constant dismissal and down right anger thrown at FA's is personal seeing as I am married to one and my closest friend is one.
> 
> But - I really don't know why most people are here unless they say something. I couldn't care less why you or anyone else is here, it's none of my business unless they start a conversation about it. And when some of the posters start complaining about the men they have met through this place THEY (not me) made it personal.
> 
> It may surprise you to know that I don't care if you are here to be worshiped for your fat or not. I'm not - I get that at home.
> 
> But my point after all this beating around the bush is - if you don't want to meet men (I am using the collective YOU) who love fat women why would You (collective again) look to _meet men_ in a place like Dimensions? I'm puzzled by that and actually I think some of the good guys are being thrown out with the relative small percentage of creeps.
> 
> Let me ask you this Jane. Do you think if you hated hispanics you should join a singles group for Hispanics and then complain about only meeting Hispanic men?? Yeah sure you would probably meet some wonderful women and make some great friends but do you then have the right to criticize the men you meet??
> 
> I'm addressing single people who are here to meet me - that's all.



Sandy, you specifically picked out Ripley at whom you addressed your post. THAT's what I meant about personalization.

And, yes, one is much more apt to find men who like fat girls here. But there are places in Dimensions where I am not comfortable. I stay out of chat because I'm not comfortable there. 

There is no doubt that being together for 20 years there is more to your and Wayne's relationship than the fact you are a big girl. 

And the last line of your post made me laugh. I know it was a typo, but it really made me chuckle.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

I understand that Traci and I agree with you but I have to say some of the posts here have been extremely strongly worded and whether it is stated or not good guys and the bad guys are going to read this and possibly be hurt.

I met my share of freaks - but not that many. I met a lot of wonderful men, men who helped me accept my body. It hurts me to see ALL FA's being lumped into the category of freaks. It's simply not so.

And what is wrong with being loved for how you look? Men need to be physically attracted to a woman first - then he can fall in love. And as a woman I have to be physically attracted to the man I love - I have to. Are we as fat women so used to being seen as A-sexual that we want it from our men too??? It puzzles me.

I'm not trying to hurt anyones feelings - I'm trying to understand some of what's being said here by beautiful intelligent women. 

(I should just probably step back from this conversation - I had to piut my puppy to sleep today and I am probablt oversensitive right now.)

BTW - Traci - thank you for your kind words.

I'm bowing out now. :bow:






TraciJo67 said:


> I don't think that any single woman who posts here was saying that she doesn't want to meet a man who doesn't love her fat. What I'm reading is that she wants a man who desires HER -- all of the unique attributes that make up WHO she is, not WHAT she is. In other words, the soft, curvy, fat body is an added attraction ... not the primary object of immediately lustful and often creepy behavior from complete strangers.
> 
> I suppose I should throw in the standard disclaimer that I'm not referring to all, or even most men who post at Dims. I'm referring to the few who troll for fat women, apparently ANY fat woman, quite aggressively and inappropriately.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Jane said:


> Sandy, you specifically picked out Ripley at whom you addressed your post. THAT's what I meant about personalization.
> 
> And, yes, one is much more apt to find men who like fat girls here. But there are places in Dimensions where I am not comfortable. I stay out of chat because I'm not comfortable there.
> 
> There is no doubt that being together for 20 years there is more to your and Wayne's relationship than the fact you are a big girl.
> 
> And the last line of your post made me laugh. I know it was a typo, but it really made me chuckle.



I did pick out Ripley - if that was mean I apologize I did not mean it to be. Her post just started me thinking.

Yes that was a typo. LOL Made me laugh too when I saw it.


----------



## LillyBBBW

To be completely honest, even us chicks who are into that kind of thing complain about the guys who seem go on and on and talk of nothing else. You can say, "Look Skippy, we've been talking about fat rolls for about ten minutes and you're wearing me out. Don't you have any other interests?" Sometimes the guy is totally appologetic and starts to talk about himself and he turns out to be an interesting fella. Sometimes he's got nothing. As much as it gets on my nerves after a while I don't want to go so far as to say that all guys who do this are no good. Probably no good for you because you're not into that kind of thing, but I don't want to go so far as to say all guys who are turned on by fat are vapid shallow losers who can't appreciate the inside of a person. That is not always true. Sometimes it is, but not always. That doesn't mean you have to endure what you don't like. Like Nancy always says, Just Say No. 

As fort the ones who aren't into fat and just have a preference (still not sure how to describe the difference properly but you know what I mean) I freely admit that I personally don't meet a lot of those guys. I know they exist, just that I seem to meet fat fiends a bit more often which can be disheartening for those of you who are hoping to avoid them. I just want to say to be fair that a person who revels in fat may not necessarily be a one trick pony. They like intelligence, wit, bla bla bla too but can get stuck and come off real scary - even to those who are receptive to it. The numbers online do seem to be disproportionaltey slanted towards the fat fixators though and they can be very scary, hence the reputation for FA's being freaks.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I understand that Traci and I agree with you but I have to say some of the posts here have been extremely strongly worded and whether it is stated or not good guys and the bad guys are going to read this and possibly be hurt.
> 
> I met my share of freaks - but not that many. I met a lot of wonderful men, men who helped me accept my body. It hurts me to see ALL FA's being lumped into the category of freaks. It's simply not so.
> 
> And what is wrong with being loved for how you look? Men need to be physically attracted to a woman first - then he can fall in love. And as a woman I have to be physically attracted to the man I love - I have to. Are we as fat women so used to being seen as A-sexual that we want it from our men too??? It puzzles me.
> 
> I'm not trying to hurt anyones feelings - I'm trying to understand some of what's being said here by beautiful intelligent women.
> 
> (I should just probably step back from this conversation - I had to piut my puppy to sleep today and I am probablt oversensitive right now.)
> 
> BTW - Traci - thank you for your kind words.
> 
> I'm bowing out now. :bow:



I'm sorry to hear about your pup, Sandie. I had to put my dog to sleep a few weeks ago and I've been a basket case since. (((hugs)))


----------



## Smushygirl

Jon Blaze said:


> (Off topic)
> I'm kind of screwed there: BMT in May, then tech school. I can barely use my cell phone there, let alone be around women of any size for long periods of time.
> But of course afterwards: Yea. I plan on doing that, but right now I'm completely fucked (Metaphorically speaking that is).
> 
> 
> 
> What I have is not objective ( I never intended for it to be that way), and it's still changing. The images I see and get happy about  aren't all the same in any way. Beyonce- Pretty. Smushygirl- Also pretty.
> 
> Anywho: We're sorry!!!



Jon, you are sweet, smart and good looking, and if I weren't old enough to be your mother, I'd grab you by the ears and...oh nevermind! :doh: :kiss2:


----------



## The Orange Mage

I think these odd/lurking/invisible FAs need to realize that the majority of BBWs aren't into their own bodies in any way REMOTELY resembling the way an FA does. I mean, your average BBW may think her butt is is nice/cute/delicious, or may think her tummy is adorable, but very few BBWs _in my experience_ (emphasis mine to prevent crap) are into ALL of their bodies the way an FA usually is.

There's always exceptions of course, and one of the most major is female gainers/feedees...but such people are extremely rare. Sorry, FAs.


----------



## Fascinita

The Orange Mage said:


> I think these odd/lurking/invisible FAs need to realize that the majority of BBWs aren't into their own bodies in any way REMOTELY resembling the way an FA does. I mean, your average BBW may think her butt is is nice/cute/delicious, or may think her tummy is adorable, but very few BBWs _in my experience_ (emphasis mine to prevent crap) are into ALL of their bodies the way an FA usually is.
> 
> There's always exceptions of course, and one of the most major is female gainers/feedees...but such people are extremely rare. Sorry, FAs.



Well, to me it only makes sense that a person would not be as "into" their body (weird choice of words, considering "I" am in my own body) as an admirer would. I mean, I don't know that many people who lust after their own bodies? You know? I mean, how do you even do it? How do you lust after your own body?


----------



## Smushygirl

Fascinita said:


> Well, to me it only makes sense that a person would not be as "into" their body (weird choice of words, considering "I" am in my own body) as an admirer would. I mean, I don't know that many people who lust after their own bodies? You know? I mean, how do you even do it? *How do you lust after your own body?*



Have you been on the erotic weight gain board lately?


----------



## stefanie

Fascinita said:


> Well, to me it only makes sense that a person would not be as "into" their body (weird choice of words, considering "I" am in my own body) as an admirer would. I mean, I don't know that many people who lust after their own bodies? You know? I mean, how do you even do it? How do you lust after your own body?



I think it's a matter of balance. A little self-lust, a little self-appreciation allows you to see how the other person sees you; to put yourself in their shoes. Too much, of course, and you get a person who becomes very self-centered, self-focused to the exclusion of their lover.

There's an interesting passage in R.A. Heinlein's sci-fi book, _Stranger in a Strange Land_, where a woman who's a stripper has a kind of telepathic experience given to her by her lover. He enables her to see herself *as he sees her.* It gives her a deep appreciation of how attractive she is, not only to him, but in general.

So I guess if you find your own body desirable, it makes it easier to see how someone else could?


----------



## The Orange Mage

I assume everyone understands at this point why so many FAs are so into gaining women/feedees.

I mean, a guy who loves football would love to hook up with a good looking, sweet-as-can-be girl who loves football, too, right?

So therefore, an FA, which is a guy who lusts after the fat female form, should want to hook up with a woman who loves the fat female form as much as he does, while also having that body that they _both_ lust after.


----------



## Smushygirl

The Orange Mage said:


> So therefore, an FA, which is a guy who lusts after the fat female form, should want to hook up with a woman who loves the fat female form as much as he does, while also having that body that they _both_ lust after.



I love how the ladies here look, but wouldn't that make me a lesbian if I *lusted* after a woman's form? Not that there is anything wrong with being a lesbian or bisexual. I'm just scratching my head here trying to understand.


----------



## Fascinita

Smushygirl said:


> Have you been on the erotic weight gain board lately?



Not often enough, Smush. Tragically, not often enough.


----------



## nottobig

I have to tell you that some of the ladies are "freaks" in their own way. A young lady I was chatting with recently almost immediately began wanting me to humiliate her and berate her for being fat. It got her "horny" to be humiliated.

Now I am as open minded as they come, and anything that floats your boat and doesn't hurt anyone else is good with me. But this is every bit as "freakish" as the original post in the thread.

I think the reality is that most people repress BIG parts of their personality in daily life and the distance imposed my a telephone or the internet is enough for them to expose the repressed parts.

(Hopefully the sociology and psychology majors out there will be impressed by the efforts of a lowly engineer to "get it" lol)


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Paul Delacroix said:


> Good point!
> 
> As opposed to the hundreds of millions of non-FA men who don't want a woman with either a combo of (a) tiny waist and massive boobs; (b) tiny waist and big butt; (c) poufy hair and very long legs, or (d) some combo of the above.
> 
> Just playing Devil's Advocate here.




No no Sweetie.... *I* am the devil here and have to say that plenty of men here seem to prefer small waist/big butt, etc.


----------



## Jes

nottobig said:


> (Hopefully the sociology and psychology majors out there will be impressed by the efforts of a lowly engineer to "get it" lol)



Art?! Is that you?


----------



## The Orange Mage

Smushygirl said:


> I love how the ladies here look, but wouldn't that make me a lesbian if I *lusted* after a woman's form? Not that there is anything wrong with being a lesbian or bisexual. I'm just scratching my head here trying to understand.



I guess my wording was a little off, but what I mean is a person who is just in love and lust with their own fatness...the feeling of it, the softness of it...and they want more. Most (hetero) gainers don't lust after the form of their own gender, usually...it's not about gender, it's about self.


----------



## Fascinita

stefanie said:


> I think it's a matter of balance. A little self-lust, a little self-appreciation allows you to see how the other person sees you; to put yourself in their shoes. Too much, of course, and you get a person who becomes very self-centered, self-focused to the exclusion of their lover.
> 
> There's an interesting passage in R.A. Heinlein's sci-fi book, _Stranger in a Strange Land_, where a woman who's a stripper has a kind of telepathic experience given to her by her lover. He enables her to see herself *as he sees her.* It gives her a deep appreciation of how attractive she is, not only to him, but in general.
> 
> So I guess if you find your own body desirable, it makes it easier to see how someone else could?



Not to split hairs, stef, but feeling good in my own body is a far cry from lusting for it. I don't understand how it would be possible at all to feel lust for oneself. It doesn't make sense.

But if we mean "I feel sexy," then yes I can see that. Still that's not the same as your boyfriend wanting sex because you're looking hot this morning.

And the sci-fi thing is interesting (thanks for posting it), but it's sci-fi. I mean, I don't need the laws of physics to go wacky for me to be able to see my body as desirable. You know? Still... feeling good is not the same as being "into" my body the way my boyfriend might be into it. A healthy self-image is good. Self-lust seems an absurdity.


----------



## Fascinita

The Orange Mage said:


> So therefore, an FA, which is a guy who lusts after the fat female form, should want to hook up with a woman who loves the fat female form as much as he does, while also having that body that they _both_ lust after.



I mean, are you jesting? Because you seem to be saying that men should want to hook up with women that lust after women? Are you saying men should be with lesbians? With bisexuals? 

A little clarification, please. Explain how one lusts after onself, for starters. Because that one is really not clear to me. You could give examples from daily life. How do _you_ (Orange Mage) lust after yourself, for instance?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

mossystate said:


> Smushy is kinda cool and groovy..and right on the fucking money....* bows *



Let me add a ~~Hallelujah~~ and a loud ~~AMEN~~ to this..........since she just had a nice word of prayer with some  :bow:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Paul Delacroix said:


> Actually what I was saying was that FAs have a bad image that they have largely brought on themselves---but that mainstream society tends to reinforce it, partially as a means of denying the attractiveness of fat women.
> 
> Think about it. Nerd-FA/Pervie Feeder = Validation of the Idea that Fat Women are Unattractive.
> 
> If 'the only men fat women can attract' are candidates for the Jerry Springer Show, what does that say about fat women? It's a calculated insult.
> 
> As to the fetish factor, the near-universal consensus here is that sexual fetishes are okay--but in addition to that, I an attempting to point out that mainstream society's image of what constitutes an attractive woman is just as fetishistic as anything on these boards.




I agree with your point about society in general- it is just another load of fat hatred to be all happy to scream that men that like fat women must be freaks because fat women can't be attractive. However, it seems to be fat women telling their own bad experiences with ~some~ in this thread. 
Thing is though, we are online.........and doesn't online in general seem to bring out the worst in some people? Aren't there freakish, no-life, selfish, not worth shit people all over cyberspace acting like idiots with wayyyy too much time on their hands? 
I suppose my point could be that meeting men online and meeting men in reality can be two distinctly different things, in my personal experience. 









I would consider slapping the taste out a man's mouth in reality if he tried to talk the shit in reality that some do online


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Smushygirl said:


> OK, Paul. I'll buy that. But does that make it right, either here or on "mainstream society"? Whatever that is? For what it's worth, you have to remember, I am out of a lot of "mainstreams", *I'm smart, I'm Black, I'm a woman and I'm fat*.



And I love all these things about you :wubu: :bow:





















I might just have to add you to my crush list in the other thread :batting:


----------



## Frankhw

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> No no Sweetie.... *I* am the devil here and have to say that plenty of men here seem to prefer small waist/big butt, etc.



Personaly I like the whole peaches, apple and pears package (all _*Frankie sized*_ as my wife would say)


----------



## Smushygirl

Oh it's past crushing for me, I luuurrrvvves me some Green Eyes! :wubu:













but I am betrothed to Ripley!:wubu::wubu::wubu:


----------



## Jon Blaze

Smushygirl said:


> Jon, you are sweet, smart and good looking, and if I weren't old enough to be your mother, I'd grab you by the ears and...oh nevermind! :doh: :kiss2:



My mom is 47, so you fail the mom test. HAHA! COME AND GET ME!!


----------



## RedVelvet

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I met my share of freaks - but not that many. I met a lot of wonderful men, men who helped me accept my body. *It hurts me to see ALL FA's being lumped into the category of freaks. It's simply not so.*



Ok...firstly....I am very sorry for the loss of your animal friend. Its extremely hard.


Secondly....everyone here has gone absolutely nuts bending over backwards to make it clear that they are only referring to *SOME * experiences with some men.

Every woman here, I think, has made that disclaimer...grabbed that caveat....including myself...and means it.

my Freak to Nice Guy FA ratio (in the real world) runs about 20-1 in favor of nice guys......

my Freak to Nice Guy FA ratio (online) runs about 1-5 in favor of freaks...and by freaks I simply mean creepy, inappropriate, overly forward, "CANT I FUCK YER FOLDS?!?!?!--having met me 2 minutes ago, guys........and this is the focus for many of us here....the unpleasant online experience.

Please.....could you please, pretty please....stop saying that "all" is being said said about "all"....its so hard to try to communicate when important things are either being missed or simply not seen.

OK....and now...tea.


----------



## Jane

Fascinita said:


> Not to split hairs, stef, but feeling good in my own body is a far cry from lusting for it. I don't understand how it would be possible at all to feel lust for oneself. It doesn't make sense.
> 
> But if we mean "I feel sexy," then yes I can see that. Still that's not the same as your boyfriend wanting sex because you're looking hot this morning.
> 
> And the sci-fi thing is interesting (thanks for posting it), but it's sci-fi. I mean, I don't need the laws of physics to go wacky for me to be able to see my body as desirable. You know? Still... feeling good is not the same as being "into" my body the way my boyfriend might be into it. A healthy self-image is good. Self-lust seems an absurdity.



The term is Narcissistic. In love with oneself.


----------



## ripley

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Ripley -
> 
> *Whatever is OK between 2 adults is OK.
> *
> I'm not talking about creepy guys who stalk you.
> 
> A fetish is not a perversion - they are 2 different things. IMO
> 
> *If you don't want to be liked for your fat - why are you socializing in a fat community???*
> 
> I'm not being flippant - I'm sincere in my question. ??? I don't understand this mind set.



I think you assumed what my "mind set" was from very little information, and you're way off the mark. When I quoted your definition of fetish, and said that the problem was when it was the fourth definition...I can't see how that is maligning all FAs and calling them all creeps.

Let's say hypothetically that you meet a guy who likes scat. In the first few minutes of talking to you...sometimes the first thing he says period!...he asks you to shit on him. He goes into great detail about the warmth and fragrance of it. He tells you how sexy you'd look squatting and dumping a big load. You try to change the subject...he ignores you and asks if you'd eat corn for him because he likes the added texture to your stool. Maybe you'd try it, if you had dated the guy for a year and you loved him, had many shared interests and experiences. But wouldn't you find it creepy if a stranger said these things to you, if you did not share his fetish for feces? If he wouldn't stop talking about it? It's obsessive, it's a fixation, and it's off-putting to have it thrust upon you by a stranger. I'm not saying the poop-lovin' man is a bad person. I'm not condemning him for liking scat. 

I never said that what goes on between two people is my business or subject to my judgment. But we're not talking about two random people, we are talking about another person and ME. Two other people can do whatever the hell they want, but *I* don't have to put up with someone forcing their fetish on me. And I think when a person has a fetish they are fixated on, and force it on strangers...that yes, that IS a problem.

The two things in your post I put into bold...I didn't say either one of those things. I'm not sure why you asked me them? Could you tell me what I said to make you say them? I'm not trying to argue, I just can't answer them when I never took that stance to begin with. I'll say one thing though...I don't want to be liked for my fat. I want to be liked because I am a good person, funny, smart, and who tries to be kind. Being in a fat community is not about wanting to be liked for your fat. It's wanting to not have your fat held against you. It's wanting fair medical treatment and fair wages for fat people. It's about wanting a chair in your dentist's waiting room without arms. 

"Being liked for your fat"....I just don't get that, or why ANYONE would want that. We are all so much more than the bodies we walk around in. "Being liked for your fat" is just the same as other people being liked for having a Playboy bunny's body. It's superficial.

I accept my body (well, except for a few things, but what woman doesn't have those?). If I had a boyfriend and he wanted to try the fat-humping thing? Sure, I'd be game! But a stranger coming up and wanting to talk about doing that...no way. It's the difference between a man having an unusual interest, versus a man who is driven by obsession.




Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Now wait a minute - were we not discussing single people who want to be loved for who they are and not their fat??? That's what I was discussing.
> 
> If someone is here in a community that is clearly defined as one for fat people and those who love them and then complains that they don't want to meet men who love their fat - I'm confused as to where the problem lies. The men who love fat women, and are only stating their preference in a community where it is supposed to be safe to do so? Or the women who are rejecting them and criticizing their preference because they are not comfortable with their own fat bodies. And don't tell me it's not that because that is a BIG part of it.
> 
> Any why does it matter why I am here??




I'd like to meet a guy and fall in love. Sure, this place is full of men who wouldn't automatically discount me because of my fat figure. I DO NOT WANT A MAN WHO JUST WANTS MY FAT. There is a big difference. I don't want a man who "loves my fat." I want a man who loves *me*, and also thinks my body is rockin'. I don't know how to explain that difference any more clearly. But why I come here? It's for the friends I've made. There are some wonderful people here, who amaze me with their wisdom and kindness. If you took meeting a man off the table, I'd still come here for them. They are so worth it. 



P.S. Sorry for the graphic example above.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Ripley -
> 
> Whatever is OK between 2 adults is OK.
> 
> I'm not talking about creepy guys who stalk you.
> 
> A fetish is not a perversion - they are 2 different things. IMO
> 
> If you don't want to be liked for your fat - why are you socializing in a fat community???
> 
> And have you talked to skinny women lately about their dating scene? I have thin girlfriends - the men want:
> 
> Bigger boobs
> bigger lips
> Smaller thighs
> Bigger buts
> Longer hair
> Blonde hair
> 
> SSDD.
> 
> I'm not being flippant - I'm sincere in my question. ??? I don't understand this mind set.




She doesn't want to be liked SOLEY for her fat, that's what I'm getting from her statement. When I was in high school I knew a girl who was pretty thin but had huge ta tas, I'm talking basketball huge, on a little tiny girl who probably didn't weigh more than 130 pounds. She had plenty of attention from guys, and usually the guys talked to her tits never once even bothering to make eye contact. Senior year she had a breast reduction. Not so popular anymore... 

Nothing wrong with liking what you like, hell I like tall athletic men with huge wallets. I dont, however, require that someone I date be tall, athletic, or have a huge wallet. I also dont dominate every minute of every conversation with exactly how tall they are, how athletic they are or how much money they have in their bank account. I also dont try to convince them to get taller.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

ripley said:


> P.S. Sorry for the graphic example above.



Rep just for that graphic example above!


----------



## superodalisque

Ella Bella said:


> She doesn't want to be liked SOLEY for her fat, that's what I'm getting from her statement. When I was in high school I knew a girl who was pretty thin but had huge ta tas, I'm talking basketball huge, on a little tiny girl who probably didn't weigh more than 130 pounds. She had plenty of attention from guys, and usually the guys talked to her tits never once even bothering to make eye contact. Senior year she had a breast reduction. Not so popular anymore...
> 
> Nothing wrong with liking what you like, hell I like tall athletic men with huge wallets. I dont, however, require that someone I date be tall, athletic, or have a huge wallet. I also dont dominate every minute of every conversation with exactly how tall they are, how athletic they are or how much money they have in their bank account. I also dont try to convince them to get taller.





wonderfully said!!!!!


----------



## RedVelvet

ripley said:


> I accept my body (well, except for a few things, but what woman doesn't have those?). If I had a boyfriend and he wanted to try the fat-humping thing? Sure, I'd be game! But a stranger coming up and wanting to talk about doing that...no way. It's the difference between a man having an unusual interest, versus a man who is driven by obsession.
> 
> 
> I'd like to meet a guy and fall in love. Sure, this place is full of men who wouldn't automatically discount me because of my fat figure. I DO NOT WANT A MAN WHO JUST WANTS MY FAT. There is a big difference. I don't want a man who "loves my fat." I want a man who loves *me*, and also thinks my body is rockin'. I don't know how to explain that difference any more clearly. But why I come here? It's for the friends I've made. There are some wonderful people here, who amaze me with their wisdom and kindness. If you took meeting a man off the table, I'd still come here for them. They are so worth it.




Pretty damn clear, and well said.


Can I just add in here...for those who actually MIGHT BE THINKING IT.....sigh.......methinks Ripley is not literally comparing liking fat to liking poo....as in....it might be an amazing example-as-metaphor....but poo and fat are not the same thing, even in this fat hating culture..

Thanks.

(sorry Rip...but given the level of misunderstanding here....just wanted to cover this angle...)

...now...if someone comes after me for "being against poo".....I am so gonna kick their arse.


----------



## exile in thighville

RedVelvet said:


> Ok..first..lets define....need.
> 
> You sure its a need? Or is it a desire? I have LOTS of extremely intense desires that I will probably never find a partner with which to act them out with any skill....thank goodness its not a need, no?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savage_Love#GGG

Define it how you'd like. Turn a partner's reasonable request down and may you receive the same in return.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Fascinita said:


> I mean, are you jesting? Because you seem to be saying that men should want to hook up with women that lust after women? Are you saying men should be with lesbians? With bisexuals?
> 
> A little clarification, please. Explain how one lusts after onself, for starters. Because that one is really not clear to me. You could give examples from daily life. How do _you_ (Orange Mage) lust after yourself, for instance?



Call it vanity. One can be turned on by their own sexiness or the idea of it and not be gay or a lesbian. Being turned on by something is not the same as sexual desire. Marvin Gaye's music turns me on but I don't want to hump his CD's.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Jane said:


> The term is Narcissistic. In love with oneself.



I was going to use that term also except that narcissism can include self desire.


----------



## TraciJo67

dan ex machina said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savage_Love#GGG
> 
> Define it how you'd like. Turn a partner's reasonable request down and may you receive the same in return.



OK, this is now veering from mildly annoying to actively making me angry. 

Dan, how are we defining 'reasonable request' here? Would it be reasonable for your lover to ask you if she could shove her fist up your ass? I mean, it could be her "thing" ... it could be what she needs, sexually. And what if you'd really rather not have a fist in your ass? Would it be "unreasonable" for you to decline that request? 

I know that we're talking about two different things ... one is or can be physically painful, and the other is or can be emotionally painful. They are still similar in that both options are painful. I derive no pleasure from the thought of my husband making love to my fat. None. In fact, if he were to request it, and I were to grant that request, it would humiliate me. I don't want him to worship my fat folds. I want him to pleasure my body in the manner that pleases *me*. I get to choose what is and is not pleasurable for me, what is and is not painful and/or humiliating, and what I will and won't do. Some things, I do, although they aren't a primary source of pleasure for me (because I know that my husband enjoys it). That is where the give and take comes in, but *we* maintain control of our personal boundaries. 

You are assuming that Dan Savage is interpreting "reasonable request" in the same way that you are interpreting it. I'd suggest that you go back and read more of what he writes, because I can tell you with absolute certainty that he'd never advise someone to consent to an act that would leave him/her feeling humiliated ... or even just *bored*. He's all about mutual pleasure.


----------



## Jes

RedVelvet said:


> ...now...if someone comes after me for "being against poo".....I am so gonna kick their arse.



which might result in dropping a load, so watch out!


----------



## RedVelvet

TraciJo67 said:


> OK, this is now veering from mildly annoying to actively making me angry.
> 
> Dan, how are we defining 'reasonable request' here? Would it be reasonable for your lover to ask you if she could shove her fist up your ass? I mean, it could be her "thing" ... it could be what she needs, sexually. And what if you'd really rather not have a fist in your ass? Would it be "unreasonable" for you to decline that request?
> 
> I know that we're talking about two different things ... one is or can be physically painful, and the other is or can be emotionally painful. They are still similar in that both options are painful. I derive no pleasure from the thought of my husband making love to my fat. None. In fact, if he were to request it, and I were to grant that request, it would humiliate me. I don't want him to worship my fat folds. I want him to pleasure my body in the manner that pleases *me*. I get to choose what is and is not pleasurable for me, what is and is not painful and/or humiliating, and what I will and won't do. Some things, I do, although they aren't a primary source of pleasure for me (because I know that my husband enjoys it). That is where the give and take comes in, but *we* maintain control of our personal boundaries.
> 
> You are assuming that Dan Savage is interpreting "reasonable request" in the same way that you are interpreting it. I'd suggest that you go back and read more of what he writes, because I can tell you with absolute certainty that he'd never advise someone to consent to an act that would leave him/her feeling humiliated ... or even just *bored*. He's all about mutual pleasure.





Get outta my fucking head!! Every word!!

..what SHE said.

The famous GGG rule from Dan Savage applies to stuff that might not turn you on, but doesn't create problems for you either...when it does, its "leave them already" time.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Sorry ladies but I stand by what I said.

RV - I will stop saying you are lumping all men into this catagory. BUT - the more disgusted your posts get about men loving your fat the more offended any FA could get. Whether they are a freak or not - ALL FA's like the fat on a curvy woman.

We all want to be loved for who we are - BUT - no man (FA or not) is going to get to that part if he isn't first physically attracted to you. 

And Ripley - I apologized for singling you out. But your analogy equating being shit on with having someone love your fat was -- um -- an interesting choice. 

I feel like part of the problem is socializing online. Guys will say things to you online that he would never say, face to face. IMO.

When Wayne and I met - in a bar - the first thing he will say he noticed was my eyes. LOL BUT, if you pursue the question a little - he will tell you he knew he REALLY liked me when we went to dance and he saw my BUTT. LOL

To this day that still makes me laugh. 


I'm through defending myself here, I stand by what I said. 

I'm dealing with a lot of emotional pain today from putting one of our dog's down yesterday.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Sorry ladies but I stand by what I said.
> 
> RV - I will stop saying you are lumping all men into this catagory. BUT - the more disgusted your posts get about men loving your fat the more offended any FA could get. Whether they are a freak or not - ALL FA's like the fat on a curvy woman.
> 
> We all want to be loved for who we are - BUT - no man (FA or not) is going to get to that part if he isn't first physically attracted to you.
> 
> And Ripley - I apologized for singling you out. But your analogy equating being shit on with having someone love your fat was -- um -- an interesting choice.
> 
> I feel like part of the problem is socializing online. Guys will say things to you online that he would never say, face to face. IMO.
> 
> When Wayne and I met - in a bar - the first thing he will say he noticed was my eyes. LOL BUT, if you pursue the question a little - he will tell you he knew he REALLY liked me when we went to dance and he saw my BUTT. LOL
> 
> To this day that still makes me laugh.
> 
> 
> I'm through defending myself here, I stand by what I said.
> 
> I'm dealing with a lot of emotional pain today from putting one of our dog's down yesterday.



I do agree with you Sandie. I just want to distiguish that speaking only for myself, I've never had any problems with guys who like fat. In fact, I vigorously encourage it.  My beef is with guys who slobber all over the place and completely dehumanize you as a person. I love objectification but there should be a balance.


----------



## Spanky

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> When Wayne and I met - in a bar - the first thing he will say he noticed was my eyes.



The interesting thing, is that you (Sandie), GEF, RV, T-Jo67, Lilly, Jes, Ella, and Rip (the eyes I have seen) ALL have really pretty eyes. :bow:

Sorry for the side note. Ya'll need something you can agree on. 

Slay on!


----------



## TraciJo67

Spanky said:


> The interesting thing, is that you (Sandie), GEF, RV, T-Jo67, Lilly, Jes, Ella, and Rip (the eyes I have seen) ALL have really pretty eyes. :bow:
> 
> Sorry for the side note. Ya'll need something you can agree on.
> 
> Slay on!



Spanky, you perv, stop objectifying us.


----------



## Spanky

TraciJo67 said:


> Spanky, you perv, stop objectifying us.



Jeez, dere, honey. I'm jus tryin' to be nice dere, dontcha know. Jeez.

Hata.


----------



## RedVelvet

Spanky said:


> The interesting thing, is that you (Sandie), GEF, RV, T-Jo67, Lilly, Jes, Ella, and Rip (the eyes I have seen) ALL have really pretty eyes. :bow:
> 
> Sorry for the side note. Ya'll need something you can agree on.
> 
> Slay on!




Well thank you, sugar. 


By the way..

My fat body is also very pretty.

I really like it when my fat body is liked by an FA. Why this isn't clear, after all this time....is a mystery.

For some reason, finding the act of fucking my folds humiliating is the same thing as not wanting my fat body to be found attractive ....a baffling mystery I hope someday can be solved......I am starting to think my communication skills are just shite.


----------



## imfree

Ella Bella said:


> She doesn't want to be liked SOLEY for her fat, that's what I'm getting from her statement. When I was in high school I knew a girl who was pretty thin but had huge ta tas, I'm talking basketball huge, on a little tiny girl who probably didn't weigh more than 130 pounds. She had plenty of attention from guys, and usually the guys talked to her tits never once even bothering to make eye contact. Senior year she had a breast reduction. Not so popular anymore...
> 
> Nothing wrong with liking what you like, hell I like tall athletic men with huge wallets. I dont, however, require that someone I date be tall, athletic, or have a huge wallet. I also dont dominate every minute of every conversation with exactly how tall they are, how athletic they are or how much money they have in their bank account. I also dont try to convince them to get taller.



That's one very well put statement that shows the difference between
a real FA and a creep who objectifies fat women.


----------



## Jon Blaze

Ella Bella said:


> She doesn't want to be liked SOLEY for her fat, that's what I'm getting from her statement. When I was in high school I knew a girl who was pretty thin but had huge ta tas, I'm talking basketball huge, on a little tiny girl who probably didn't weigh more than 130 pounds. She had plenty of attention from guys, and usually the guys talked to her tits never once even bothering to make eye contact. Senior year she had a breast reduction. Not so popular anymore...
> 
> Nothing wrong with liking what you like, hell I like tall athletic men with huge wallets. I dont, however, require that someone I date be tall, athletic, or have a huge wallet. I also dont dominate every minute of every conversation with exactly how tall they are, how athletic they are or how much money they have in their bank account. I also dont try to convince them to get taller.



Ohhhhhhhh... Good post.  

HAI! :bow::bow:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Ella Bella said:


> Nothing wrong with liking what you like, hell I like tall athletic men with huge wallets. I dont, however, require that someone I date be tall, athletic, or have a huge wallet. I also dont dominate every minute of every conversation with exactly how tall they are, how athletic they are or how much money they have in their bank account. I also dont try to convince them to get taller.




Very well said........and if a guy chose not to talk to you again and thought badly of you for such things, I'm sure there wouldn't be a pile of people telling him that he is LUCKY to have you.


----------



## exile in thighville

TraciJo67 said:


> OK, this is now veering from mildly annoying to actively making me angry.
> 
> Dan, how are we defining 'reasonable request' here? Would it be reasonable for your lover to ask you if she could shove her fist up your ass? I mean, it could be her "thing" ... it could be what she needs, sexually. And what if you'd really rather not have a fist in your ass? Would it be "unreasonable" for you to decline that request?
> 
> I know that we're talking about two different things ... one is or can be physically painful, and the other is or can be emotionally painful. They are still similar in that both options are painful. I derive no pleasure from the thought of my husband making love to my fat. None. In fact, if he were to request it, and I were to grant that request, it would humiliate me. I don't want him to worship my fat folds. I want him to pleasure my body in the manner that pleases *me*. I get to choose what is and is not pleasurable for me, what is and is not painful and/or humiliating, and what I will and won't do. Some things, I do, although they aren't a primary source of pleasure for me (because I know that my husband enjoys it). That is where the give and take comes in, but *we* maintain control of our personal boundaries.
> 
> You are assuming that Dan Savage is interpreting "reasonable request" in the same way that you are interpreting it. I'd suggest that you go back and read more of what he writes, because I can tell you with absolute certainty that he'd never advise someone to consent to an act that would leave him/her feeling humiliated ... or even just *bored*. He's all about mutual pleasure.



OK, you're changing your story now. First it was, "I don't want to look at the ceiling," and now it's "I'd feel humiliated." That is a different story. I was only getting on your nerves because you made it out like suffering a little boredom to please your husband (and, just to clarify, I only endorse if he pleases you back) was this unimaginable horror. I personally don't see it as any more humiliating than, right, a titty fuck, but you're certainly entitled to your own emotions. I maintain that I don't at all think it's an unreasonable request in the _physical_ aspect, and that "anal fisting" is quite a big step from rollfucking in the regard of physical discomfort.


----------



## Jane

dan ex machina said:


> OK, you're changing your story now. First it was, "I don't want to look at the ceiling," and now it's "I'd feel humiliated." That is a different story. I was only getting on your nerves because you made it out like suffering a little boredom to please your husband (and, just to clarify, I only endorse if he pleases you back) was this unimaginable horror. I personally don't see it as any more humiliating than, right, a titty fuck, but you're certainly entitled to your own emotions. I maintain that I don't at all think it's an unreasonable request in the _physical_ aspect, and that "anal fisting" is quite a big step from rollfucking in the regard of physical discomfort.



Ever been titty fucked?


----------



## TraciJo67

dan ex machina said:


> OK, you're changing your story now. First it was, "I don't want to look at the ceiling," and now it's "I'd feel humiliated." That is a different story. I was only getting on your nerves because you made it out like suffering a little boredom to please your husband (and, just to clarify, I only endorse if he pleases you back) was this unimaginable horror. I personally don't see it as any more humiliating than, right, a titty fuck, but you're certainly entitled to your own emotions. I maintain that I don't at all think it's an unreasonable request in the _physical_ aspect, and that "anal fisting" is quite a big step from rollfucking in the regard of physical discomfort.



You're right, Dan ... I was lying, in order to win this "debate" with you


----------



## RedVelvet

Jane said:


> Ever been titty fucked?



I was wondering that too.


(Im not fleshy between my breasts..so...does nothing for me..and is owie/hurty at times....mildly humiliating, but not overweeningly so....unpleasant...but thats just me.)....the fat fold fucking is psychologically loaded....somehow..waaaaay more ......way more.


----------



## RedVelvet

dan ex machina said:


> I was only getting on your nerves because you made it out like suffering a little boredom to please your husband (and, just to clarify, I only endorse if he pleases you back) was this *unimaginable horror*.




Hmm......I think she said "humiliating".

.....You calling it "unimaginable horror", as if she had said that herself, in order to make her seem ridiculous for feeling so, is.....well....beneath you, Dan.


Also...you keep arguing regarding PHYSICAL discomfort....when Traci made it very clear that this was about psychological discomfort....comparing it to be the PSYCHOLOGICAL discomfort equivilant of an extreme act such as fisting (ok..I might have used a less difficult physical comparision.but there you have it)

She keeps saying "its humiliating"....and you keep saying..."It hurts no more than a titty fuck..so who cares?"

sigh....


----------



## TraciJo67

Jane said:


> Ever been titty fucked?



I don't think that I could scrape together enough flesh to rub 'twixt a pencil, far less anything of ... greater girth 

I am hereby asserting my bid to derail this thread by changing the topic to: Mammograms, why the FUCK are they so damn painful? Or we could discuss menstrual cramps. Anything but titty and fat fold fucking, which is what it appears to have degenerated into.


----------



## RedVelvet

TraciJo67 said:


> I don't think that I could scrape together enough flesh to rub 'twixt a pencil, far less anything of ... greater girth
> 
> I am hereby asserting my bid to derail this thread by changing the topic to: Mammograms, why the FUCK are they so damn painful? Or we could discuss menstrual cramps. Anything but titty and fat fold fucking, which is what it appears to have degenerated into.



And humiliation, of course....because even if I like it in some contexts....I am a prig if I don't like it in all.


Bring on the cat macros.


----------



## Sweet Tooth

Seems to me that every human has the right to define their _own_ sexual or personal boundaries, and then they get to deal with the consequences - both good and bad. What's so wrong with that?

Seems to me that the people who can respect another human's _right_ to their boundaries, even if they don't agree with where the boundary line is set in their own estimation, are the ones most women here would term "good guys" or "good FAs". The problem with the rest is that they not only disagree with your boundary lines, but they're happy to cross them whenever it's convenient. Sure, people cross boundaries all the time, but they could at least back off once they're told or when they see certain cues in body/facial language.


----------



## Jes

i have to wonder, too, about the definition of good FA... Without a doubt there are lots of respectful guys here, but even when they are nice, and polite, and smart, and sentient and aware of all things Fat, i often realize they're also married. And not saying so. Or not out in their own lives. And not saying so. Or they're posting about how their chubby/fat GFs hate themselves or how they married thin women (for valid reasons, don't get me wrong)

Being a fat admirer and saying so online, and doing all the right things and being a really great FA... ever think that what we women (and the author in the OP) are objecting to is that, in the real world (which is the one in which I live), internet FAs don't really translate.


----------



## RedVelvet

Jes said:


> i have to wonder, too, about the definition of good FA... Without a doubt there are lots of respectful guys here, but even when they are nice, and polite, and smart, and sentient and aware of all things Fat, i often realize they're also married. And not saying so. Or not out in their own lives. And not saying so. Or they're posting about how their chubby/fat GFs hate themselves or how they married thin women (for valid reasons, don't get me wrong)
> 
> Being a fat admirer and saying so online, and doing all the right things and being a really great FA... ever think that what we women ....are objecting to is that, in the real world ..... internet FAs don't really translate.




Excellent point. Brilliant point, even.


----------



## Jane

TraciJo67 said:


> I don't think that I could scrape together enough flesh to rub 'twixt a pencil, far less anything of ... greater girth
> 
> I am hereby asserting my bid to derail this thread by changing the topic to: Mammograms, why the FUCK are they so damn painful? Or we could discuss menstrual cramps. Anything but titty and fat fold fucking, which is what it appears to have degenerated into.




I should have said...or indicated...or quoted....that was for dan.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Maybe there's no such thing as a good FA. Maybe they're all just pretending so they can win our trust, meanwhile when we're not looking they're swabbing the deck thinking of us lying face down in our own feces.


----------



## TraciJo67

Jane said:


> I should have said...or indicated...or quoted....that was for dan.



I got that it was for Dan, Jane. 

I even got that my response was TMI.

I just didn't care ...  (If it makes Dan a little green in the face, then my purpose will have served).


----------



## mossystate

TraciJo67 said:


> I got that it was for Dan, Jane.
> 
> I even got that my response was TMI.
> 
> I just didn't care ...  (If it makes Dan a little green in the face, then my purpose will have served).



Hehe..I just realized that we need more smilies...to fit zee various moods.....big mouth smiley says that " anal fisting does not have to be horrible..a vat of lube and a few gentle words whispered, can have any undecided lover ok with giving what their paramour desires, dare I say...neeeeeds "

yeah, I am running on little sleep...


----------



## Fascinita

LillyBBBW said:


> Call it vanity. One can be turned on by their own sexiness or the idea of it and not be gay or a lesbian. Being turned on by something is not the same as sexual desire. Marvin Gaye's music turns me on but I don't want to hump his CD's.



I do define being "turned on" as feeling sexual desire. Do you mean that Marvin Gaye puts you in the mood? I don't see that as the same thing as my boyfriend desiring my body. Of course you don't desire Marvin Gaye's CDs sexually. So going back to the original question I had, I still don't understand how it's possible to feel sexual desire for one's own body. My question stems from a third poster asserting that most fat women are not going to be as into their fat bodies as an FA would be. And my confusion creeps in when I ask myself how it's possible for a person to feel desire for their own body the way a lover feels desire for it. Maybe, though, the person who made the comment that I responded to--Orange Mage, I think--meant something along the lines of what you mean, Lilly: that a person may feel sexy in their own body the same they might feel sexy when they hear Marvin Gaye? That might explain things... Yeah. Because in that case we're talking about someone (a fat woman, in this case) feeling sexy in their body, and someone else (an FA, in this case) desiring that body. And that might also explain why a fat woman is not likely to be "as into" her own body as an FA: we're talking about two completely different things--one refers to a fat woman's subjective sensuality, the other refers to an FA's desire for the woman's body. Those work differently. Apples and oranges. Can't be compared.


----------



## exile in thighville

Jane said:


> Ever been titty fucked?



Should I ask someone I know ~pretty well~ who has, and actively enjoys it? Not that it matters; it's obviously different for everyone, as there are people who enjoy anal fisting too (god, how horrible!), but the crux of what I was saying involved compromises in bed, and that unwillingness to, at least try something, that their partner asks for.



TraciJo67 said:


> You're right, Dan ... I was lying, in order to win this "debate" with you



Instead of picking on my words, notice I said that I change my response in that case? Re: debate over. I didn't say you were lying, I said your original complaint was pretty lame.

On a side note, It's not easy to shock me, and I'm no gynophobe, so OMG WIMMINZ MENSTRUATE isn't going to "make me green in the face." Speaking of compromises, I've been known to get some of that stuff on my fingers during certain times of the month when Jenny's desires don't just up and disappear. I guess you could call that "humiliating" if I wasn't so in love with the chick. It also appalls me that you brand even the discussion of titty and roll fucking something to be "degenerated to" on the web's premier fat sex forum. I love how the discussion of the mythical "perfect FA" involves a list of no-nos in bed.  

I guess I could always start a thread about how sexually-uncomplex BBWs make me want to be into thin chicks, since the fact this is even a discussion is complete and utter bullshit.


----------



## Fascinita

Jane said:


> Ever been titty fucked?



I was wondering that, too. lol I think we should stop ribbing him, though, before he turns against us and goes over to the thin-chick camp.


----------



## The Orange Mage

dan ex machina said:


> I guess I could always start a thread about how sexually-uncomplex BBWs make me want to be into thin chicks, since the fact this is even a discussion is complete and utter bullshit.



It's my experience that there are some BBWs, even amazingly awesome and confident ones, who are not compatible with FAs. They're just too different in some cases.


----------



## RedVelvet

I seriously doubt any of the people here knows anyone else who has participated on this thread well enough to be able to make a judgement call about how adventurous or not everyone else is in bed. Kinda insulting.

Dan....you seem up for anything.....thats cool. Don't assume just because someone might not like one or two things...that they are somehow prudes.

No-no's in bed? I had no idea. Here I thought I was just saying what makes me, personally, uncomfortable.

I would never proclaim on high what is right and true for all. 

Just no winning here.....I guess I am a scolding prude in your eyes, given the tiny, itty bitty part of me you might think you know.

I am relieved to find that your poor opinion of me doesn't devastate.

I wish you well in your superior sexuality.


----------



## ripley

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Sorry ladies but I stand by what I said.
> 
> And Ripley - I apologized for singling you out. But your analogy equating being shit on with having someone love your fat was -- um -- an interesting choice.



I chose it specifically, and with a purpose, Sandie. I chose something that (I assumed) you weren't into, and if you're not, can be pretty ickifying to have it pushed on you ad nauseum by a stranger. Or a series of strangers, as the case may be. All people poop. It does not follow that all people want their pooping fetishized. All fat women are fat. It does not follow that all fat women want their fat fetishized. The poop fetish guy and the fat fetish guy aren't wrong, or villains, or indicative of all men. But if the woman has given no indication that she is into his fetish too...well, shut the fuck up already, guys. There is a lot of assumption in these parts that because I have a large volume of fat I must get off on it or will be amenable to having men fetishize it. No. 

You seem to have a problem understanding that no one is condemning FAs for _*liking*_ the fat. We love that they love our bodies! But NO ONE wants to be loved for just a physical attribute. NO ONE wants their body to be more important to their partner than their mind and soul are. It's a matter of degree.


----------



## sweet&fat

dan ex machina said:


> ... if I wasn't so in love with the chick.



Best. phrase. ever.


----------



## mossystate

I just slipped a lil something to RV and Ripley. Some call it rep. I call it Monique Kisses.


----------



## TraciJo67

dan ex machina said:


> It also appalls me that you brand even the discussion of titty and roll fucking something to be "degenerated to" on the web's premier fat sex forum. I love how the discussion of the mythical "perfect FA" involves a list of no-nos in bed.



Please tell me where I've said, or even IMPLIED that either of these things are "degenerate". What I've consistently said is that they do nothing *for me*. I've further stated that a mutually satisfying sex life, *for me*, is one in which both partners give and receive in ways that *are* mutually satisfying. 

You get to choose what goes on in *your* bedroom, what satisfies you & your lover ... what you'll try, what you don't like & won't try again ... and hey, so long as it's something that happens between two consenting adults ... GET YOUR FREAK ON, buddy ... and nobody has a right to judge that.

And I get to choose what works for me, and that shouldn't include judgment from you. Nor should you be stuffing words into my mouth and assuming that because something doesn't work for me, I brand everyone else who likes that act a "degenerate".


----------



## LillyBBBW

Fascinita said:


> I do define being "turned on" as feeling sexual desire. Do you mean that Marvin Gaye puts you in the mood? I don't see that as the same thing as my boyfriend desiring my body. Of course you don't desire Marvin Gaye's CDs sexually. So going back to the original question I had, I still don't understand how it's possible to feel sexual desire for one's own body. My question stems from a third poster asserting that most fat women are not going to be as into their fat bodies as an FA would be. And my confusion creeps in when I ask myself how it's possible for a person to feel desire for their own body the way a lover feels desire for it. Maybe, though, the person who made the comment that I responded to--Orange Mage, I think--meant something along the lines of what you mean, Lilly: that a person may feel sexy in their own body the same they might feel sexy when they hear Marvin Gaye? That might explain things... Yeah. Because in that case we're talking about someone (a fat woman, in this case) feeling sexy in their body, and someone else (an FA, in this case) desiring that body. And that might also explain why a fat woman is not likely to be "as into" her own body as an FA: we're talking about two completely different things--one refers to a fat woman's subjective sensuality, the other refers to an FA's desire for the woman's body. Those work differently. Apples and oranges. Can't be compared.



I was speaking on behalf or myself and how it works out for me. I don't want to put words in TOM's mouth but I think that is what he was referring to at least as I interpreted it. It is as you say, a fat woman feeling sexy in her own body only with the fat as a strong focal point. That is a huge turnon for some FA's, a woman who loves her fat. Women who think like that are rare but we do exist. Feeling sexy doesn't necessarily mean we're homosexuals.


----------



## Fascinita

LillyBBBW said:


> I was speaking on behalf or myself and how it works out for me. I don't want to put words in TOM's mouth but I think that is what he was referring to at least as I interpreted it. It is as you say, a fat woman feeling sexy in her own body only with the fat as a strong focal point. That is a huge turnon for some FA's, a woman who loves her fat. Women who think like that are rare but we do exist. Feeling sexy doesn't necessarily mean we're homosexuals.




OK. I see. Men like it when women are comfortable in their own bodies and are able to enjoy their own sensuality. Is that more or less the gist, do you think? (Seeing as how TOM jumped shipped and gave up answering me,,, lol you'll have to do, Lilly.)

Where is the lesbian thing coming from? Was that mentioned somewhere? I lost track. But mmm... no I don't think feeling sexy means one is gay. Though some of the sexiest people I have known are gay. But that's a whole 'nother thing. I didn't mean that desiring oneself would mean one had repressed gay desires, if that's how what I said was _interpreted_... Gayness was never part of what I posed. What I meant was that desiring one's own body is absurd, doesn't make sense. How can you want to make love to yourself? So I think there was a misunderstanding there somewhere. But I think you've answered the *central part *of my question (see my first paragraph above.) 

Anyway. Here's to feeling good.


----------



## The Orange Mage

LillyBBBW said:


> I was speaking on behalf or myself and how it works out for me. I don't want to put words in TOM's mouth but I think that is what he was referring to at least as I interpreted it. It is as you say, a fat woman feeling sexy in her own body only with the fat as a strong focal point. That is a huge turnon for some FA's, a woman who loves her fat. Women who think like that are rare but we do exist. Feeling sexy doesn't necessarily mean we're homosexuals.





Fascinita said:


> OK. I see. Men like it when women are comfortable in their own bodies and are able to enjoy their own sensuality. Is that more or less the gist, do you think? (Seeing as how TOM jumped shipped and gave up answering me,,, lol you'll have to do, Lilly.)
> 
> Where is the lesbian thing coming from? Was that mentioned somewhere? I lost track. But mmm... no I don't think feeling sexy means one is gay. Though some of the sexiest people I have known are gay. But that's a whole 'nother thing. I didn't mean that desiring oneself would mean one had repressed gay desires, if that's how what I said was _interpreted_... Gayness was never part of what I posed. What I meant was that desiring one's own body is absurd, doesn't make sense. How can you want to make love to yourself? So I think there was a misunderstanding there somewhere. But I think you've answered the *central part *of my question (see my first paragraph above.)
> 
> Anyway. Here's to feeling good.



YES! Thank you Lilly! THAT is what I was trying to get across...was actually hoping either you or Aurora would pop in and translate what I was trying to say, lol. 

What many FAs want is a woman who not only accepts her body, but simply knows and shows that her body and all it's soft, womanly glory, is a thing of great beauty to an FA. We FAs feel that you are goddesses, and it drives us wild when you embrace the physical part of that as we do.

And as Lilly said, this kind of woman is very rare, further elevating the whole "goddess" status in the eyes of FAs.


----------



## troubadours

sweet&fat said:


> Best. phrase. ever.



i knooww right :bow:


----------



## MisticalMisty

nottobig said:


> I have to tell you that some of the ladies are "freaks" in their own way. A young lady I was chatting with recently almost immediately began wanting me to humiliate her and berate her for being fat. It got her "horny" to be humiliated.
> 
> Now I am as open minded as they come, and anything that floats your boat and doesn't hurt anyone else is good with me. But this is every bit as "freakish" as the original post in the thread.


HEY! Now..I love verbal humiliation and I'm by no means a freak..just a kinky fattie


----------



## LillyBBBW

Fascinita said:


> OK. I see. Men like it when women are comfortable in their own bodies and are able to enjoy their own sensuality. Is that more or less the gist, do you think? (Seeing as how TOM jumped shipped and gave up answering me,,, lol you'll have to do, Lilly.)
> 
> Where is the lesbian thing coming from? Was that mentioned somewhere? I lost track. But mmm... no I don't think feeling sexy means one is gay. Though some of the sexiest people I have known are gay. But that's a whole 'nother thing. I didn't mean that desiring oneself would mean one had repressed gay desires, if that's how what I said was _interpreted_... Gayness was never part of what I posed. What I meant was that desiring one's own body is absurd, doesn't make sense. How can you want to make love to yourself? So I think there was a misunderstanding there somewhere. But I think you've answered the *central part *of my question (see my first paragraph above.)
> 
> Anyway. Here's to feeling good.



Somebody said it somewhere back there, I can't remember who. The question was about a woman being into her own body and wouldn't that mean the woman was a homosexual? Looked like it was getting all mixed up so I trying to address a whole bunch of stuff at once in an effort to clarify. Like a woman who sees herself in a brand new pair of stilletto pumps and gets a charge out ofthe way they make her legs look, a woman will see a new mound of soft round fat someplace on her backside and get all giddy because she loves how it looks. Why are we like that I don't know but for some reason some FA's find that really hot. That doesn't mean I'll hook up with any guy who thinks like that nor are they beating a path to my door either. Same courtship rules apply. Not saying you implied anything, I'm just talking general stuff.

There is such a thing as a person being sexually turned on by their own bodies. It's referred to as narcissism and when I was younger I wondered fearfully if maybe I wasn't one because I enjoyed my gaining body so much. Not THAT kind of enjoyed, I meant just a fascinated preening excitement over the newness of change. I'm told that narcissism is a whole other barrel of fish and what I have is as normal as a woman who preens after a makeover, just that mine is not a common view of beauty and not something that requires psychotherapy or a registry someplace.


----------



## Smushygirl

LillyBBBW said:


> Somebody said it somewhere back there, I can't remember who. The question was about a woman being into her own body and wouldn't that mean the woman was a homosexual?



That was me, Lilly! What he said was this:

"So therefore, an FA, which is a guy who lusts after the fat female form, should want to hook up with a *woman who loves the fat female form as much as he does, while also having that body that they both lust after*."

Sorry, but that sounded like he was looking for a gay person to me. Nothing wrong with that, but it indicated a fundamental disconnect between FA's and fat girls to me. I'm one of those girls that is just fat, but not *into* fat. I don't lose, I don't gain, I just like who I am and am trying to find someone that likes me too. Look, I'm old, 45, I've done a lot of different kinds of sexual stuff, but before I came here, I never heard of some of the stuff that people profess to like to do here. Some of it has been intriguing to me, a lot of it a turn off. That doesn't make it wrong, and I'm not being judgmental, but I have to tell you guys, coming here made me feel like "Little Nell from the country".

Please let it be ok that I am relating my own experience here!


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Ripley - if you can use the analogy of being shit on to try to explain to me how admiration of your fat makes you feel - we have nothing more to discuss on this subject.

Did you choose it on purpose? I guess you did. But you and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum - I like FA's telling me how sexy my body is. I like that my husband loves the way my fat body looks. And I love Wayne touching and loving my fat folds.

I have nothing else to say. I'm out. 




ripley said:


> I chose it specifically, and with a purpose, Sandie. I chose something that (I assumed) you weren't into, and if you're not, can be pretty ickifying to have it pushed on you ad nauseum by a stranger. Or a series of strangers, as the case may be. All people poop. It does not follow that all people want their pooping fetishized. All fat women are fat. It does not follow that all fat women want their fat fetishized. The poop fetish guy and the fat fetish guy aren't wrong, or villains, or indicative of all men. But if the woman has given no indication that she is into his fetish too...well, shut the fuck up already, guys. There is a lot of assumption in these parts that because I have a large volume of fat I must get off on it or will be amenable to having men fetishize it. No.
> 
> You seem to have a problem understanding that no one is condemning FAs for _*liking*_ the fat. We love that they love our bodies! But NO ONE wants to be loved for just a physical attribute. NO ONE wants their body to be more important to their partner than their mind and soul are. It's a matter of degree.


----------



## troubadours

just for the record
i like being fucked all over - we're waiting for my arms to be ready
i didn't realize it was bad for some people but quite honestly you don't know what you're missing
my fattest parts are usually quite sensitive, so


----------



## ripley

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Ripley - if you can use the analogy of being shit on to try to explain to me how admiration of your fat makes you feel - we have nothing more to discuss on this subject.



IT WAS NOT TO EXPLAIN HOW ADMIRATION OF MY FAT MAKES ME FEEL. It was, BY EXAMPLE, trying to show you how it feels to have a fetish you DO NOT SHARE pushed on you by strangers.



Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Did you choose it on purpose? I guess you did. But you and I are on opposite ends of the spectrum - I like FA's telling me how sexy my body is. I like that my husband loves the way my fat body looks. And I love Wayne touching and loving my fat folds.



I NEVER SAID that I don't like an FA to tell me my body is sexy. I said that I DON'T WANT STRANGERS fetishizing me and expecting me to be gung ho about it.



Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I have nothing else to say. I'm out.



Thank God, 'cause this is frustrating the hell out of me.


----------



## Santaclear

Have a great weekend, everyone.


----------



## RedVelvet

ripley said:


> IT WAS NOT TO EXPLAIN HOW ADMIRATION OF MY FAT MAKES ME FEEL. It was, BY EXAMPLE, trying to show you how it feels to have a fetish you DO NOT SHARE pushed on you by strangers.
> 
> 
> 
> I NEVER SAID that I don't like an FA to tell me my body is sexy. I said that I DON'T WANT STRANGERS fetishizing me and expecting me to be gung ho about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank God, 'cause this is frustrating the hell out of me.




I tried to help Rip....even put in the disclaimer trying to say that you are not equating your fat with poo.

I tried so hard.

basta.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

So you're the only one frustrated??? LOL

Whatever - LOL





ripley said:


> IT WAS NOT TO EXPLAIN HOW ADMIRATION OF MY FAT MAKES ME FEEL. It was, BY EXAMPLE, trying to show you how it feels to have a fetish you DO NOT SHARE pushed on you by strangers.
> 
> 
> 
> I NEVER SAID that I don't like an FA to tell me my body is sexy. I said that I DON'T WANT STRANGERS fetishizing me and expecting me to be gung ho about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank God, 'cause this is frustrating the hell out of me.


----------



## LillyBBBW

I understood what TOM was trying to say though I admit now that the way he said it would be confusing to one who isn't in the know. I just hope I explained it a little better. I hate putting myself in the position of being official spokesperson but no one else was handy. 




Smushygirl said:


> That was me, Lilly! What he said was this:
> 
> "So therefore, an FA, which is a guy who lusts after the fat female form, should want to hook up with a *woman who loves the fat female form as much as he does, while also having that body that they both lust after*."
> 
> Sorry, but that sounded like he was looking for a gay person to me. Nothing wrong with that, but it indicated a fundamental disconnect between FA's and fat girls to me. I'm one of those girls that is just fat, but not *into* fat. I don't lose, I don't gain, I just like who I am and am trying to find someone that likes me too. Look, I'm old, 45, I've done a lot of different kinds of sexual stuff, but before I came here, I never heard of some of the stuff that people profess to like to do here. Some of it has been intriguing to me, a lot of it a turn off. That doesn't make it wrong, and I'm not being judgmental, but I have to tell you guys, coming here made me feel like "Little Nell from the country".
> 
> Please let it be ok that I am relating my own experience here!


----------



## waldo

I notice two different perspectives in the two posts quoted below. Red Velvet says she has met numerous upstanding FAs in person but MUCH more often than not assholes online. Jes indicates she has met numerous respectful FAs online but they seem not anywhere to be found in real life.

I don't really have much of a point here but the difference just struck me - a good example of how different individual experiences can be.



RedVelvet said:


> my Freak to Nice Guy FA ratio (in the real world) runs about 20-1 in favor of nice guys......
> 
> my Freak to Nice Guy FA ratio (online) runs about 1-5 in favor of freaks...and by freaks I simply mean creepy, inappropriate, overly forward, "CANT I FUCK YER FOLDS?!?!?!--having met me 2 minutes ago, guys........and this is the focus for many of us here....the unpleasant online experience.
> 
> Please.....could you please, pretty please....stop saying that "all" is being said said about "all"....its so hard to try to communicate when important things are either being missed or simply not seen.
> 
> OK....and now...tea.





Jes said:


> i have to wonder, too, about the definition of good FA... Without a doubt there are lots of respectful guys here, but even when they are nice, and polite, and smart, and sentient and aware of all things Fat, i often realize they're also married. And not saying so. Or not out in their own lives. And not saying so. Or they're posting about how their chubby/fat GFs hate themselves or how they married thin women (for valid reasons, don't get me wrong)
> 
> Being a fat admirer and saying so online, and doing all the right things and being a really great FA... ever think that what we women (and the author in the OP) are objecting to is that, in the real world (which is the one in which I live), internet FAs don't really translate.


----------



## Jes

Fascinita said:


> . Apples and oranges. Can't be compared.



oh, sweetheart, don't you know by now? here at dims, it's apples and pears. And pears always win!


----------



## Jes

The Orange Mage said:


> And as Lilly said, this kind of woman is very rare, further elevating the whole "goddess" status in the eyes of FAs.



oh, i don't know about that...


----------



## Jes

new rule: once you say 'that's it, i'm done, i'm not saying anything else' you have to live by your word. 

ah, in my fantasies, I suppose...


waldo, i haven't met many good men here. I think I was saying: i'm sure there are some. Not that I'd run into a pack of them.


----------



## CleverBomb

Jes said:


> oh, sweetheart, don't you know by now? here at dims, it's apples and pears. And pears always win!


oh, I don't know about that...

-Rusty


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

CleverBomb said:


> oh, I don't know about that...
> 
> -Rusty




You must spread some ............... :wubu:


----------



## Jon Blaze

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You must spread some ............... :wubu:



Got you covered papple. 10-4


----------



## waldo

Jes said:


> new rule: once you say 'that's it, i'm done, i'm not saying anything else' you have to live by your word.
> 
> ah, in my fantasies, I suppose....



It seems people write that but then look and see that in the meantime someone posted another reply to their prior posts and are compelled to respond. If you really want to bow out of the discussion you just need to make that 'I'm done' post and not look at the thread from there on.



Jes said:


> waldo, i haven't met many good men here. I think I was saying: i'm sure there are some. Not that I'd run into a pack of them.



Apologies for misinterpreting your words. I see it now upon closer reading. Of course when meeting people online it is a little harder than in real life to guage who you are dealing with but in many cases the guys seem to come on with a vulgar approach so are easily discountable. BUT it would be dangerous to assume that the individual who initially comes off respectful is truly well-intentioned (not that I am insinuating anyone is gullible).


----------



## LillyBBBW

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You must spread some ............... :wubu:



Yep, I hit 'im for you too pretty lady! :kiss2:


----------



## NoWayOut

ripley said:


> IT WAS NOT TO EXPLAIN HOW ADMIRATION OF MY FAT MAKES ME FEEL. It was, BY EXAMPLE, trying to show you how it feels to have a fetish you DO NOT SHARE pushed on you by strangers.
> 
> 
> 
> I NEVER SAID that I don't like an FA to tell me my body is sexy. I said that I DON'T WANT STRANGERS fetishizing me and expecting me to be gung ho about it.



Nor should you. All things being equal, I prefer women who are "overweight" (the word does belong in quotes, overweight women are what normal weight should be) to those who are underweight. But I go for personality, not what looks are there or not there. 

Plus, it's not my choice what a woman I like does with her weight, because it's not my body. If I'm dating or married to a woman and she wants to be thin but healthy or normal or plump (anything but anorexic), I'll support her, even if I think she'd look better if she gained weight.

Going back to what you said, you're absolutely right that strangers should not expect bigger ladies to be pleased when someone pushes a fetish on you. Not everyone has the same wants, and if you don't want that pushed on you, you shouldn't have to deal with that.


----------



## Frankhw

Originally Posted by Jes 
oh, sweetheart, don't you know by now? here at dims, it's apples and pears. And pears always win! 



CleverBomb said:


> oh, I don't know about that...
> 
> -Rusty



Apples and Pears and Peaches (Melons?) oooh my.  :wubu: :blush:


----------



## Ray Ros

(Pls. accpt/excuse the abrviatns I use to save space/time),,,, As a startr let me say I'v been a fat admirer all my life... I hv been to meetings and dances and unfortunately, the men seem to b below par...Most r unketpt, potbellied, beards..,poor clothng....some downright slobs...I hv yet to meet one tht luks like a movie star or a Wall St. executive....Most not succesful financially or othrwise...Women seem to b a litle betr but also like belonging to lower classes....Tht's wht a friend of mine sed when I mentiond my prefrence...."U'd only find those girls in the lowe classes"...Why, I replied vehemently..."cuz only a woman in that class wud let herself grow an ass like that.."...Cudnt reply...He had a point....Cn u imagine a first lady at 450 plus lbs<<...or a princess, a queen??...So my experience is most of us that like big women are sorta strange...We hv to admit we r a subculture and the upper classes and th rich are not into it....So it is a bad lot for big girls...Particulrly SSBBWs...They wil eithr get a weirdo, or a wacko or a failure (like me..,67 yrs, not much money or future....Hispanic.., in special situation, educatd, tho)...,Altho some girls r a litle betr not many ar artistic, or with degrees...how many Mastrs and PHDs r thr here??....Sorry,., that is my take, my experience...And yet.., I cn not help but admire them & lov them....All that cottage cheese, stretch markds...cellulite..I cn not commit eithr....So, many of us r not only weirdos,. etc.., but also users...sorta..,More thn 15 yrs in th movment...Saw Dimensions from its beginnigs, stapled, photocopies..,but I wil always admire th big, fat girls...almost no limit....Anybody cn write to me....Tnx...RAY [email protected]..


----------



## RedVelvet

Ray Ros said:


> (Pls. accpt/excuse the abrviatns I use to save space/time),,,, As a startr let me say I'v been a fat admirer all my life... I hv been to meetings and dances and unfortunately, the men seem to b below par...Most r unketpt, potbellied, beards..,poor clothng....some downright slobs...I hv yet to meet one tht luks like a movie star or a Wall St. executive....Most not succesful financially or othrwise...Women seem to b a litle betr but also like belonging to lower classes....Tht's wht a friend of mine sed when I mentiond my prefrence...."U'd only find those girls in the lowe classes"...Why, I replied vehemently..."cuz only a woman in that class wud let herself grow an ass like that.."...Cudnt reply...He had a point....Cn u imagine a first lady at 450 plus lbs<<...or a princess, a queen??...So my experience is most of us that like big women are sorta strange...We hv to admit we r a subculture and the upper classes and th rich are not into it....So it is a bad lot for big girls...Particulrly SSBBWs...They wil eithr get a weirdo, or a wacko or a failure (like me..,67 yrs, not much money or future....Hispanic.., in special situation, educatd, tho)...,Altho some girls r a litle betr not many ar artistic, or with degrees...how many Mastrs and PHDs r thr here??....Sorry,., that is my take, my experience...And yet.., I cn not help but admire them & lov them....All that cottage cheese, stretch markds...cellulite..I cn not commit eithr....So, many of us r not only weirdos,. etc.., but also users...sorta..,More thn 15 yrs in th movment...Saw Dimensions from its beginnigs, stapled, photocopies..,but I wil always admire th big, fat girls...almost no limit....Anybody cn write to me....Tnx...RAY [email protected]..




Well done..."Sir".

.......my god. What IS your world like?

Your ignorance is.......staggering.


Love,
A successful artist with a Masters


PS: After the string of insults...you leave your email. Given the dazzling communication skills you possess...I am sure your mailbox will be filled to overflowing. I do thank you, though....for helping to prove the point so....eloquently.

Educated, huh? It shows.


----------



## RedVelvet

NoWayOut said:


> Nor should you. All things being equal, I prefer women who are "overweight" (the word does belong in quotes, overweight women are what normal weight should be) to those who are underweight. But I go for personality, not what looks are there or not there.
> 
> Plus, it's not my choice what a woman I like does with her weight, because it's not my body. If I'm dating or married to a woman and she wants to be thin but healthy or normal or plump (anything but anorexic), I'll support her, even if I think she'd look better if she gained weight.
> 
> Going back to what you said, you're absolutely right that strangers should not expect bigger ladies to be pleased when someone pushes a fetish on you. Not everyone has the same wants, and if you don't want that pushed on you, you shouldn't have to deal with that.




And what a nice antidote to the previous poster this is.

Thanks for existing.


----------



## AnnMarie

Okay, I'm not a horn tooter, but to be perfectly clear: 

Well-educated (a lowly bachelor - clearly a complete loser am I.)
Creative
Traveled
Life-experience
Picky
From what most would consider a rich family - not Hilton rich, but very well into upper middle class. 

I've run events with Heather for over 10 years, and while we get an entire cross section of attendees (they are open to the public!) I could count on two hands the times the men have been smelly or disheveled. There are professionals, business owners, blue collar, grad students and more who attend (in women AND men) and we have some "movie star" looking men - and there are women here who can testify to it, they've been there and met them. 

So, while I know that your experience is your own - and you're welcome to it, know that there is another dimension that you're not privy to. 

If I'd read a post like yours when I first got to this community over 10 years ago, I'd have locked myself in the house until death. People need to know this is NOT everyone's reality.


----------



## Jes

ray, why can't you commit to cottage cheese? you ain't getting any younger, boobookitty.


----------



## ThikJerseyChik

Hukd on foniks werkd fer Ray!


----------



## Jasminium

Wow, an intelligent, well-read, insightful man like yourself only attracts low class women, what a shock!

sarcasm alert


----------



## RedVelvet

Jasminium said:


> Wow, an intelligent, well-read, insightful man like yourself only attracts low class women, what a shock!
> 
> sarcasm alert



You mean "lowe" class, love....."lowe".


----------



## RedVelvet

Jes said:


> ray, why can't you commit to cottage cheese? you ain't getting any younger, boobookitty.



He's in a "special situation", dontcha know.


----------



## Jane

Ray, where have you been all my life?

Learning to text message, it appears.

And, you owe me a BUNCH of child support.

I have found that is the ultimate way to get rid of a man.


----------



## mossystate

No college degree here, so, I suppose Ray is right. Oh, sorry, is this where I am supposed to defend myself?

:doh:


----------



## exile in thighville

RedVelvet said:


> I seriously doubt any of the people here knows anyone else who has participated on this thread well enough to be able to make a judgement call about how adventurous or not everyone else is in bed. Kinda insulting.
> 
> Dan....you seem up for anything.....thats cool. Don't assume just because someone might not like one or two things...that they are somehow prudes.
> 
> No-no's in bed? I had no idea. Here I thought I was just saying what makes me, personally, uncomfortable.
> 
> I would never proclaim on high what is right and true for all.
> 
> Just no winning here.....I guess I am a scolding prude in your eyes, given the tiny, itty bitty part of me you might think you know.
> 
> I am relieved to find that your poor opinion of me doesn't devastate.
> 
> I wish you well in your superior sexuality.



We only brought up my *superior sexuality* because someone asked me if I've had the pleasure of being tittyfucked. Sorry if this FA comes off a bit *judgmental* in one of many threads on here devoted to bashing my ilk (two ilks, in fact: being an FA, and loving a woman for, gasp, her body as well as her mind). Look, my original intent was only to hand out these nuggets of wisdom:

1. compromise is important in the sack, to men, and yes, some women.

1. titty/roll/arm/nostrilfucking is only as humiliating as you deem it yourself

I don't really think about you guys or have an opinion on anything other the posts/debate at hand, so any conclusion I draw is hardly more than a quick thought of "whoa, I can't believe rollfucking is such a big deal." So don't worry, you're all safe from my wrath. Unless you vote for Huckabee.


----------



## AnnMarie

exile in thighville said:


> ***snipped***




Woah. Name change totally freaked me out.


----------



## exile in thighville

TraciJo67 said:


> Please tell me where I've said, or even IMPLIED that either of these things are "degenerate". What I've consistently said is that they do nothing *for me*. I've further stated that a mutually satisfying sex life, *for me*, is one in which both partners give and receive in ways that *are* mutually satisfying.
> 
> You get to choose what goes on in *your* bedroom, what satisfies you & your lover ... what you'll try, what you don't like & won't try again ... and hey, so long as it's something that happens between two consenting adults ... GET YOUR FREAK ON, buddy ... and nobody has a right to judge that.
> 
> And I get to choose what works for me, and that shouldn't include judgment from you. Nor should you be stuffing words into my mouth and assuming that because something doesn't work for me, I brand everyone else who likes that act a "degenerate".



"Or we could discuss menstrual cramps. Anything but titty and fat fold fucking, which is what it appears to have *degenerated* into."


----------



## exile in thighville

AnnMarie said:


> Woah. Name change totally freaked me out.



You like? I just don't want people to Google my music and for every aspect of my sex life to come up's all. Plan on sending shit to labels soon.


----------



## RedVelvet

exile in thighville said:


> We only brought up my *superior sexuality* because someone asked me if I've had the pleasure of being tittyfucked. Sorry if this FA comes off a bit *judgmental* in one of many threads on here devoted to bashing my ilk (two ilks, in fact: being an FA, and loving a woman for, gasp, her body as well as her mind). Look, my original intent was only to hand out these nuggets of wisdom:
> 
> 1. compromise is important in the sack, to men, and yes, some women.
> 
> 1. titty/roll/arm/nostrilfucking is only as humiliating as you deem it yourself
> 
> I don't really think about you guys or have an opinion on anything other the posts/debate at hand, so any conclusion I draw is hardly more than a quick thought of "whoa, I can't believe rollfucking is such a big deal." So don't worry, you're all safe from my wrath. Unless you vote for Huckabee.




Your points where all obvious. 

I think, really...if we were sitting across a table from each other having this discussion it would have been summed up in about....10 minutes.

And my points:

1.Don't assume that compromise doesn't happen in vast quantities in my sex life, or anyone else's here. Very few lovers in my life wanted to go to the places where I want to go. I live with it.

2. As to your humilation point: ...well....duh. What we like and don't like comes into being from a rather vast conglomeration of experiences and sensations. You make it sound like a preference or like is a simple thing and easily changed. Tis not always the case. Your fantasies are complex in origin. Please assume mine are as well.....and just as rich and varied.

3. Huckabee is insane.


----------



## AnnMarie

exile in thighville said:


> You like? I just don't want people to Google my music and for every aspect of my sex life to come up's all. Plan on sending shit to labels soon.



gotcha man, makes total sense and I'm glad you were able to do it and keep your history here.  Just freaked me out! Keep your AV up for quite a while so people can get used to the fact that it's you. 

And yeah, I dig the name... good choice.


----------



## Smushygirl

exile in thighville said:


> I just don't want people to Google my music and for every aspect of my sex life to come up's all. Plan on sending shit to labels soon.



Another proud and open FA


----------



## AnnMarie

Smushygirl said:


> Another proud and open FA



I'm sorry, but there's a huge difference between being a proud FA and having business associates come and read about your personal sexual fantasies. 

I don't think there's anything wrong with what Dan did. 

Most people here don't use their "real life" names, so there's not many stones to throw in that regard.


----------



## TraciJo67

exile in thighville said:


> "Or we could discuss menstrual cramps. Anything but titty and fat fold fucking, which is what it appears to have *degenerated* into."



Dan, apparently you have a reading comprehension problem. Let me break it down for you: I was referring to the TOPIC OF DISCUSSION changing/degenerating. TOPIC.OF.DISCUSSION. Is that clear enough for you?


----------



## RedVelvet

Smushygirl said:


> Another proud and open FA




Actually, sweetie...I am sure he is. I keep my sexuality somewhat private too....


----------



## Smushygirl

AnnMarie said:


> I'm sorry, but there's a huge difference between being a proud FA and having business associates come and read about your personal sexual fantasies.
> 
> I don't think there's anything wrong with what Dan did.
> 
> Most people here don't use their "real life" names, so there's not many stones to throw in that regard.



I understand that, AnnMarie, I really do. Of course everything I post here, I really have no worries about even when people that know me here use my real name, and they do.

Just find it hard to watch a petulant youngster sass my friends. I had a moment and now it's over.


----------



## RedVelvet

Smushygirl said:


> Just find it hard to watch a petulant youngster sass my friends. I had a moment and now it's over.



I know this is a no-no....but I gotta admit...the intent is so sweet. Thanks for the many layers of sentiment behind it.

:kiss2:


----------



## Tooz

Ray Ros said:


> (Pls. accpt/excuse the abrviatns I use to save space/time),,,, As a startr let me say I'v been a fat admirer all my life... I hv been to meetings and dances and unfortunately, the men seem to b below par...Most r unketpt, potbellied, beards..,poor clothng....some downright slobs...I hv yet to meet one tht luks like a movie star or a Wall St. executive....Most not succesful financially or othrwise...Women seem to b a litle betr but also like belonging to lower classes....Tht's wht a friend of mine sed when I mentiond my prefrence...."U'd only find those girls in the lowe classes"...Why, I replied vehemently..."cuz only a woman in that class wud let herself grow an ass like that.."...Cudnt reply...He had a point....Cn u imagine a first lady at 450 plus lbs<<...or a princess, a queen??...So my experience is most of us that like big women are sorta strange...We hv to admit we r a subculture and the upper classes and th rich are not into it....So it is a bad lot for big girls...Particulrly SSBBWs...They wil eithr get a weirdo, or a wacko or a failure (like me..,67 yrs, not much money or future....Hispanic.., in special situation, educatd, tho)...,Altho some girls r a litle betr not many ar artistic, or with degrees...how many Mastrs and PHDs r thr here??....Sorry,., that is my take, my experience...And yet.., I cn not help but admire them & lov them....All that cottage cheese, stretch markds...cellulite..I cn not commit eithr....So, many of us r not only weirdos,. etc.., but also users...sorta..,More thn 15 yrs in th movment...Saw Dimensions from its beginnigs, stapled, photocopies..,but I wil always admire th big, fat girls...almost no limit....Anybody cn write to me....Tnx...RAY [email protected]..



After the entire bottle of Excedrin I took to treat the headache your typing gave me, I thought it might be good to write a response.

As much as I hate the term SSBBW, I suppose I fall into that category. Uneducated? PLEASE. I'll be graduating this semester (with honors), and may possibly seek a more advanced degree in the future. I am moderately artistic, and while I haven't been to finishing school, I have SOME poise and grace.

I'm not lower class, and your whole post bothers me. Are you seriously for real?


----------



## exile in thighville

Smushygirl said:


> Another proud and open FA



I'm on record as a pretty outspoken FA in my published work: http://stylusmagazine.com/reviews/gravy-train/all-the-sweet-stuff.htm

But yeah, Ann Marie nailed it. Difference between a fetish (feeding, private) and a preference (being an FA, public) right there. I'm sure if someone was so inclined to dig up dirt, they'd still find my Dimensions shit, it's just now it's not gonna be the first thing that comes up in a search.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

Tooz said:


> After the entire bottle of Excedrin I took to treat the headache your typing gave me, I thought it might be good to write a response.
> 
> As much as I hate the term SSBBW, I suppose I fall into that category. Uneducated? PLEASE. I'll be graduating this semester (with honors), and may possibly seek a more advanced degree in the future. I am moderately artistic, and while I haven't been to finishing school, I have SOME poise and grace.
> 
> I'm not lower class, and your whole post bothers me. Are you seriously for real?




He's only got what, 9 posts? I'm thinking a kid who's xbox is broken, or got taken away.


----------



## Fascinita

Jes said:


> ray, why can't you commit to cottage cheese? you ain't getting any younger, boobookitty.



But will cottage cheese commit to _him_?


----------



## Tooz

Ella Bella said:


> He's only got what, 9 posts? I'm thinking a kid who's xbox is broken, or got taken away.



Ooh, good one.


----------



## exile in thighville

TraciJo67 said:


> Dan, apparently you have a reading comprehension problem. Let me break it down for you: I was referring to the TOPIC OF DISCUSSION changing/degenerating. TOPIC.OF.DISCUSSION. Is that clear enough for you?



You said "degenerate" as a noun, not me. Really, get over it.


----------



## Eclectic_Girl

Ray Ros said:


> (Pls. accpt/excuse the abrviatns I use to save space/time),,,,


You're not excused. Space isn't rationed here, and it wouldn't kill you to spend a little more time articulating your thoughts. Well-thought out posts show respect for your fellow posters. Only a person in "that class" would let himself be so linguistically sloppy.



Ray Ros said:


> As a startr let me say I'v been a fat admirer all my life... I hv been to meetings and dances and unfortunately, the men seem to b below par...Most r unketpt, potbellied, beards..,poor clothng....some downright slobs...


 This has not been my experience. I am sad for you that it has been yours.



Ray Ros said:


> I hv yet to meet one tht luks like a movie star or a Wall St. executive....Most not succesful financially or othrwise...


I have seen some very handsome FAs, some of them in the traditionally wealthy/successful mode. That's not what does it for me, but they're out there. Also, I have met (and dated) FAs who are very successful financially, so my experience there is different again.



Ray Ros said:


> Women seem to b a litle betr but also like belonging to lower classes....Tht's wht a friend of mine sed when I mentiond my prefrence...."U'd only find those girls in the lowe classes"...Why, I replied vehemently..."cuz only a woman in that class wud let herself grow an ass like that.."...Cudnt reply...He had a point....Cn u imagine a first lady at 450 plus lbs<<...or a princess, a queen??... So my experience is most of us that like big women are sorta strange...We hv to admit we r a subculture and the upper classes and th rich are not into it....


 Well, the queen of Tonga was pretty hefty... This has more to do with societal pressures about what would be "allowed" by the majority of a fat-hating society than about the fat girls themselves. Also, about wage discrimination in working and middle classes. There are fat society matrons - they just come from "old money" so they didn't have to rely upon fitting in to a homogenous corporate culture to make their fortune. 


Ray Ros said:


> So it is a bad lot for big girls...Particulrly SSBBWs...They wil eithr get a weirdo, or a wacko or a failure (like me..,67 yrs, not much money or future....Hispanic.., in special situation, educatd, tho)...,Altho some girls r a litle betr not many ar artistic, or with degrees...how many Mastrs and PHDs r thr here??....


Me: SSBBW; graduate-level education (weird certification/degree, which I won't bore people by explaining), including education in England; official Smarty-Pants, according to the folks at Mensa, the College Board (SAT), the Educational Testing Sevice (GRE), Stanford-Binet (IQ), and Jeopardy. (Just sayin', a PhD does not a Smarty-Pants make...); reasonably well-dressed and -groomed; content with my income bracket and the lifestyle it supports; able to channel my creative impulses into a variety of artsy/crafty and musical projects solely for my own amusement; kind to children and animals; capable of developing loyal friendships; able to balance a healthy inner/spiritual life with the slings and arrows of the pragmatic world. 



Ray Ros said:


> <edit quasi-personal ad>



Neither I or the many wonderful fat women of all sizes that I have met have to resign themselves to a "weirdo, wacko, or failure", as you put it. I enjoy romantic relationships, but not enough to disrupt the life I love to be with someone I can't respect (i.e., who can't respect himself). 

That, to me, is the key to being a "good" FA: self-respect. Respect yourself enough to present yourself well to others (in language, manners, and appearance in whatever style is your own). Respect yourself enough to embrace your sexuality - it is nothing to be ashamed of, so don't act like the human beings you're attracted to are something to be ashamed of. Respect yourself enough to develop a well-rounded personality that integrates, but does not obsessively focus on, your sexuality. Respect yourself enough to inspire respect from others, and give respect to others without them having to demand it from you. 

If the author of the article Jay originally posted about so long ago had had more respect for herself as a person, fat or not, she wouldn't have felt the need to categorize FAs as some freakish Other to be afraid of instead of the infinitely diverse group of individuals with one (*ONE*) thing in common that they actually are.

[/rant]

Can I get a hand getting down, here? My soapbox got higher as I was writing this...


----------



## Jane

exile in thighville said:


> We only brought up my *superior sexuality* because someone asked me if I've had the pleasure of being tittyfucked.



I don't believe I asked you if you had the pleasure. I asked you if you had been. And while it's not my favorite thing..been there, done that, not humiliated, and its not off my list.

And, the funniest thing, you choose to pick on my post which in no way denigrated FA's or anything about them. I've never dated an "out" FA. I have never had one approach me and say they were an FA. I kinda figure if they flirt with me, ask me out, want to have sex, and want to be seen in public with me, they like me, fat and all.

I think damned near everyone is warped. Doesn't mean I don't like quite a few people, love a smaller number and know even more. It's the people who act "normal" who scare the absolute bloody hell out of me, simply because I consider any "normalcy" to be an act.


----------



## Frankhw

Sorry for the clip.



Eclectic_Girl said:


> [/rant]
> 
> Can I get a hand, here? My soapbox got higher as I was writing this...



_Bringing over a ladder and offers a hand. _

Here you go.



A lot of good points do make for a high box..


----------



## butch

Yes, Ray Ros's entire post seems to make the SF author's point, unfortunately. His gross stereotyping and patronizing air is laughable if it weren't so sad. I must say, though, as someone who thinks both fat men and fat women are delightful, I loved* his dig at FAs at the events he goes to as being 'pot bellied.' Oh, the horror!* The FAs must be freaks and weirdos if they happen to have a little pudge, just as the fat women at the events must all be dirty, poor, dumb, and bland.*

*please note sarcasm here

I love double standards, don't you? Next thing you know, a certain someone will show up and tell us how he approaches women at events and gives them pointers on dressing, make-up, and hairstyles. Or another poster will show up and tell fat girls not to wear certain things, or another poster will tell us how fat we women should or shouldn't be to get his attention. It gets old, this sense of ownership and entitlement and willful blindness and ignornace on the part of SOME people who don't get that women (and men) aren't some commodity that they buy, that they pick out at the showroom and can select all the features they choose for their model. 

Bottom line is, treat the fat woman of your desires as a human first, and a fat person second, and no one will confuse you for the FAs that are being maligned in the article. The bonus to this plan, you might ask? You'll then get to have enough fat sexy fun which will keep your freak flag flying for a real long time. Its a win-win, ain't it?


----------



## Blackjack

butch said:


> Next thing you know, a certain someone will show up and tell us how he approaches women at events and gives them pointers on dressing, make-up, and hairstyles. Or another poster will show up and tell fat girls not to wear certain things, or another poster will tell us how fat we women should or shouldn't be to get his attention.



So you mean that it's wrong that I go to these bashes and tell people they should be naked?


----------



## fatgirlflyin

exile in thighville said:


> I'm on record as a pretty outspoken FA in my published work: http://stylusmagazine.com/reviews/gravy-train/all-the-sweet-stuff.htm
> 
> But yeah, Ann Marie nailed it. Difference between a fetish (feeding, private) and a preference (being an FA, public) right there. I'm sure if someone was so inclined to dig up dirt, they'd still find my Dimensions shit, it's just now it's not gonna be the first thing that comes up in a search.



I almost never agree with anything that you say, it even physically pains me a little bit to agree with you here.  
But I can see where you're coming from and people will always look for something that they can use to spin negatively, and sex is the easiest thing to do that with.

He likes fat chicks? Yeah so what. He likes feeding someone and getting someone fatter? Oh my god he must be some kind of wierdo freak!


----------



## Jane

Ella Bella said:


> some kind of wierdo freak!



= human EWWWW!!!!


----------



## TraciJo67

exile in thighville said:


> You said "degenerate" as a noun, not me. Really, get over it.



Despite the fact that I've clarified my position over and over again, you insist on TELLING ME what I meant. 

Dan, I think you're telling the wrong person to "get over it." Maybe you should examine why you feel such a need to tell *me* how *I* feel.


----------



## butch

Blackjack said:


> So you mean that it's wrong that I go to these bashes and tell people they should be naked?



Unless you're having a BBW Bash at a Nudist retreat, then yes, its wrong, Beej.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

mossystate said:


> No college degree here, so, I suppose Ray is right. Oh, sorry, is this where I am supposed to defend myself?
> 
> :doh:



Funny how we both manage to spell better than him though  





















My troll alarm is going off, too. That's probably why he left his email addy...so he and his HS friends can read angry responses to his intentional flame on fat women. :doh:


----------



## exile in thighville

Ella Bella said:


> I almost never agree with anything that you say, it even physically pains me a little bit to agree with you here.
> But I can see where you're coming from and people will always look for something that they can use to spin negatively, and sex is the easiest thing to do that with.
> 
> He likes fat chicks? Yeah so what. He likes feeding someone and getting someone fatter? Oh my god he must be some kind of wierdo freak!



I'm not afraid of sexual extortion or anyone "spinning it negatively," it's just a simple fact: my sex life isn't the world's business, and I choose my right to only discuss it with this board and whoever I'm dating at the time. At worst I'd be gossip fodder amongst my friends, most of which I already try to scare off with tales of merely dating fat chicks. I mentioned anal sex to a friend who up until that point was keen on sharing sex stories, and he said that "creeped him out." I don't think he'd go out of his way to dig up further fetish dirt on me or confront me. The only people I think I'd really be petrified to discuss it with are my parents, and I can't imagine anyone else would enjoy a parent-child kink discussion much more. But believe me, I'm mostly shielding my friends from _me_, and not the other way around. I'm open like Paris Hilton's legs; if the world could handle its own kinks and differences, I'd discuss feeding with strangers on the street.


----------



## RedVelvet

butch said:


> I love double standards, don't you? *Next thing you know, a certain someone will show up and tell us how he approaches women at events and gives them pointers on dressing, make-up, and hairstyles. Or another poster will show up and tell fat girls not to wear certain things, or another poster will tell us how fat we women should or shouldn't be to get his attention. It gets old, this sense of ownership and entitlement and willful blindness and ignornace on the part of SOME people who don't get that women (and men) aren't some commodity that they buy, that they pick out at the showroom and can select all the features they choose for their model. *
> 
> *Bottom line is, treat the fat woman of your desires as a human first, and a fat person second, and no one will confuse you for the FAs that are being maligned in the article. * The bonus to this plan, you might ask? You'll then get to have enough fat sexy fun which will keep your freak flag flying for a real long time. Its a win-win, ain't it?






My worship of you has reached fever pitch.

Marry me....marry me now.


----------



## Jon Blaze

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Funny how we both manage to spell better than him though



Agreed on all points.















This person has used the term "Flabbergasting" to describe the women about 100000000 times. That doesn't sound like true endearment to me, unless it's just a REALLY bad pun.
ONOZ WHITE TEXT HAHA!!


----------



## Fascinita

LillyBBBW said:


> I understood what TOM was trying to say though I admit now that the way he said it would be confusing to one who isn't in the know. I just hope I explained it a little better. I hate putting myself in the position of being official spokesperson but no one else was handy.



It's not so much that I'm not in the know, as that the rhetoric was really bothering me and I wanted him to clarify. There are plenty of myths around the female of the species, and I find most of these work to place real limits on the lives of real women (e.g., women belong in the home, women are the weaker sex, women are to be worshipped). So I just wanted to call into question the assumption that people can desire their own bodies the way others can. The last thing we need as women is more pressure to "be" this way or that, because it's what men find sexy. It places women into categories, you know? The "superior" woman who is so "into" her body that she's all sex and nothing but sex, vs. the little ole regular woman who is "too insecure" to accept her proper place as a fat goddess. Understand, I'm addressing a certain rhetoric, not dismissing the fact that many of us do own our sensuality fully and maybe even enjoy playing at roles. When rhetoric is taken as "the truth" it has the potential to become a means of subjugating others. As long as we can frame our preferences as personal preferences, and give room to others to enjoy theirs without pathologizing them, I think we'll be OK.

And I'm hapy to be a woman. I understand and respect "goddess worship," but to me, being a woman is honestly enough.

You did explain it well, Lilly. Thanks so much.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Fascinita said:


> It's not so much that I'm not in the know, as that the rhetoric was really bothering me and I wanted him to clarify. There are plenty of myths around the female of the species, and I find most of these work to place real limits on the lives of real women (e.g., women belong in the home, women are the weaker sex, women are to be worshipped). So I just wanted to call into question the assumption that people can desire their own bodies the way others can. The last thing we need as women is more pressure to "be" this way or that, because it's what men find sexy. It places women into categories, you know? The "superior" woman who is so "into" her body that she's all sex and nothing but sex, vs. the little ole regular woman who is "too insecure" to accept her proper place as a fat goddess. Understand, I'm addressing a certain rhetoric, not dismissing the fact that many of us do own our sensuality fully and maybe even enjoy playing at roles. When rhetoric is taken as "the truth" it has the potential to become a means of subjugating others. As long as we can frame our preferences as personal preferences, and give room to others to enjoy theirs without pathologizing them, I think we'll be OK.
> 
> And I'm hapy to be a woman. I understand and respect "goddess worship," but to me, being a woman is honestly enough.



I understand exactly what you mean Fascinita, and of course you're absolutley right about that. I think in the sheer number of different schools of thought and conversation going on here there is an overzealousness in the need to express oneself over and over and get the point across. Sometimes the manner of talk creates a hostile environment even though that may not be the intent. Still, at times it needs to be pointed out. I'm not sure anyone here on either side is trying to say, "My way is better," just, "My way is better for me." Thanks for saying this. In all honestly I hadn't even thought of it that way.


----------



## Fascinita

:wubu::wubu::bow::bow::happy:


----------



## UMBROBOYUM

exile in thighville said:


> I'm on record as a pretty outspoken FA in my published work: http://stylusmagazine.com/reviews/gravy-train/all-the-sweet-stuff.htm
> 
> But yeah, Ann Marie nailed it. Difference between a fetish (feeding, private) and a preference (being an FA, public) right there. I'm sure if someone was so inclined to dig up dirt, they'd still find my Dimensions shit, it's just now it's not gonna be the first thing that comes up in a search.



Smart moves. I find myself in a similar situation as Dan. I would tell anyone I'm an F.A. but fantasy and fetish are a private thing I agree. 


....so to get back to the O.P.'s article post, upon re-reading it I felt sad.
I felt sad to know that because I feel like the article and the writer have unfairly thrown me in a category of things that presume to know what and how I think of people. Yes it's true I'm A "Fat Admirer" or a person who can appreciate bodies of different sizes. I know and understand that there are many jerks out there that call themselves F.A.s and treat women like crap. Thats not what I call an F.A., thats what we call a disrespectful Gerk. It makes me sad to hear that this person who wrote the article can't bother to distinguish that. I've found a short excerpt in particular that I really found insulting... 


_"Then I met another boyfriend, a great guy who was really nice (I didn't trust him of course  he was too nice), and, strangely, he liked "fleshy" women. This didn't compute; no one liked fat chicks except closet cases and retards."_



It hurts when people think and talk like that. I'm not complaining or anything like that.. its just that I've seen and felt this kind of prejudice before. Growing up in a small town where there weren't many Asian people I was picked on, called names, and threatened. Though this time I'm not being judged for my skin, but for what I believe in and find attractive is almost equally insulting. I haven't done anything wrong by preferring bigger women. It's a person's choice and right to choose what makes them happy without hurting others. A bigger woman makes me happy and if by that "natural" choice of feelings and emotions, someone decides to label me a "Closet Case or Retard....." then to hell with them. 

An F.A. to me is a person who prefers fat on a person, respects and can admire the person underneath as well. My definition of A real F.A. is one who doesn't look at just the fat but what beauty and spirit lives encased in it. It's such a hard thing to describe with words without sounding "objective". I suppose if one could place themselves in our shoes for a moment and realize what a delicate situation this is, one might understand? Its a long thin gray line we walk that could break at any moment. "_Do they think I love them for only being fat"_ on one side and _"Do they think that I don't find them attractive for not being fat"_ on the other. I don't know how to say what it's like because just as some things are, it is a sensitive case that just has to be experienced. I don't regret being an F.A. not for one second! I accept the responsibility and consequences of the choice to be an active one.

Being an F.A. as I have learned in my life means not only Admiring, but also entails effort made on my part to let others know that yes there are people who will find "fat" beautiful. It means making a stand for who I am. I am an F.A. and if anyone got a problem with that, then come down here and fix it, otherwise I won't care what you have to say. I accepted who I was a long time ago, now I'm defending what I am. So to the author of the article Katy. St.Clair, I send my sympathies in regards you are still a "mess" and that you can't find yourself. I wish you the best in finding yourself. I could say more but I'm not. 

I feel bad knowing that the ladies here have experienced such gerks. I hope you ladies find what your looking for in life, whether it be a companion or self acceptance. Your not alone in your struggles. I'm not perfect or right sometimes but I feel like after reading the 5 paged article I must step up for the "good" guy/girl F.A.s out there. 

I understand it looks and sounds easy to post this on the forums(Lawlz interwebz tough guy post), feel free to download Ventrilo or teamspeak and talk with me. 


anyways have a good one!

-Jon


----------



## Jane

UMBROBOYUM said:


> An F.A. to me is a person who prefers fat on a person, respects and can admire the person underneath as well. My definition of A real F.A. is one who doesn't look at just the fat but what beauty and spirit lives encased in it.



You know, that is all we ask.


----------



## RedVelvet

Yay,UMBROBOYUM!


----------



## Keb

Thin girls don't want to be loved just for their physical features either. Guys don't want to be loved just because they've got nice biceps. In an ideal world, we'd be able to see that so clearly that people would be able to stop focusing so much on their looks and start focusing on the things they really care about. Unfortunately, we've all been trained to believe that it's impossible to find love without fitting into some physical ideal or another, since our outer appearance is the first thing a potential mate sees. Why do we do this to ourselves?


----------



## lovessbbw

butch said:


> Yes, Ray Ros's entire post seems to make the SF author's point, unfortunately. His gross stereotyping and patronizing air is laughable if it weren't so sad. I must say, though, as someone who thinks both fat men and fat women are delightful, I loved* his dig at FAs at the events he goes to as being 'pot bellied.' Oh, the horror!* The FAs must be freaks and weirdos if they happen to have a little pudge, just as the fat women at the events must all be dirty, poor, dumb, and bland.*
> 
> *please note sarcasm here
> 
> I love double standards, don't you? Next thing you know, a certain someone will show up and tell us how he approaches women at events and gives them pointers on dressing, make-up, and hairstyles. Or another poster will show up and tell fat girls not to wear certain things, or another poster will tell us how fat we women should or shouldn't be to get his attention. It gets old, this sense of ownership and entitlement and willful blindness and ignornace on the part of SOME people who don't get that women (and men) aren't some commodity that they buy, that they pick out at the showroom and can select all the features they choose for their model.
> 
> Bottom line is, treat the fat woman of your desires as a human first, and a fat person second, and no one will confuse you for the FAs that are being maligned in the article. The bonus to this plan, you might ask? You'll then get to have enough fat sexy fun which will keep your freak flag flying for a real long time. Its a win-win, ain't it?





UMBROBOYUM said:


> Smart moves. I find myself in a similar situation as Dan. I would tell anyone I'm an F.A. but fantasy and fetish are a private thing I agree.
> 
> 
> ....so to get back to the O.P.'s article post, upon re-reading it I felt sad.
> I felt sad to know that because I feel like the article and the writer have unfairly thrown me in a category of things that presume to know what and how I think of people. Yes it's true I'm A "Fat Admirer" or a person who can appreciate bodies of different sizes. I know and understand that there are many jerks out there that call themselves F.A.s and treat women like crap. Thats not what I call an F.A., thats what we call a disrespectful Gerk. It makes me sad to hear that this person who wrote the article can't bother to distinguish that. I've found a short excerpt in particular that I really found insulting...
> 
> 
> _"Then I met another boyfriend, a great guy who was really nice (I didn't trust him of course  he was too nice), and, strangely, he liked "fleshy" women. This didn't compute; no one liked fat chicks except closet cases and retards."_
> 
> 
> 
> It hurts when people think and talk like that. I'm not complaining or anything like that.. its just that I've seen and felt this kind of prejudice before. Growing up in a small town where there weren't many Asian people I was picked on, called names, and threatened. Though this time I'm not being judged for my skin, but for what I believe in and find attractive is almost equally insulting. I haven't done anything wrong by preferring bigger women. It's a person's choice and right to choose what makes them happy without hurting others. A bigger woman makes me happy and if by that "natural" choice of feelings and emotions, someone decides to label me a "Closet Case or Retard....." then to hell with them.
> 
> An F.A. to me is a person who prefers fat on a person, respects and can admire the person underneath as well. My definition of A real F.A. is one who doesn't look at just the fat but what beauty and spirit lives encased in it. It's such a hard thing to describe with words without sounding "objective". I suppose if one could place themselves in our shoes for a moment and realize what a delicate situation this is, one might understand? Its a long thin gray line we walk that could break at any moment. "_Do they think I love them for only being fat"_ on one side and _"Do they think that I don't find them attractive for not being fat"_ on the other. I don't know how to say what it's like because just as some things are, it is a sensitive case that just has to be experienced. I don't regret being an F.A. not for one second! I accept the responsibility and consequences of the choice to be an active one.
> 
> Being an F.A. as I have learned in my life means not only Admiring, but also entails effort made on my part to let others know that yes there are people who will find "fat" beautiful. It means making a stand for who I am. I am an F.A. and if anyone got a problem with that, then come down here and fix it, otherwise I won't care what you have to say. I accepted who I was a long time ago, now I'm defending what I am. So to the author of the article Katy. St.Clair, I send my sympathies in regards you are still a "mess" and that you can't find yourself. I wish you the best in finding yourself. I could say more but I'm not.
> 
> I feel bad knowing that the ladies here have experienced such gerks. I hope you ladies find what your looking for in life, whether it be a companion or self acceptance. Your not alone in your struggles. I'm not perfect or right sometimes but I feel like after reading the 5 paged article I must step up for the "good" guy/girl F.A.s out there.
> 
> I understand it looks and sounds easy to post this on the forums(Lawlz interwebz tough guy post), feel free to download Ventrilo or teamspeak and talk with me.
> 
> 
> anyways have a good one!
> 
> -Jon




Thank you both so much from a fellow FA. I guess all I have to say or add is that each person you meet just try and get to know them as simply an individual. Sure, it is sadly so easy to label others as well as ourselves. I guess is part of the human experience to label even on the basic level as to explain things to ourselves and others. 
I know in my experience I do try and see each woman as just that a woman first and as a bbw / ssbw second. I guess an easy way to explain my thoughts is just this - that now matter how attractive or sexy I find the size and shape of a woman the foremost thing is what's inside. Her mind, heart, soul or spirit. Forging or maintaining any relationship can never be based on physical attributes alone. When all is said and done the people we decide to share and live life with is not the size or shape it's the inner person that we truly come to know and love and live with. Put another way it's not the fat or big curves on a woman I would live with as it's the woman inside I would have to live with everyday. It's the true gift inside the pretty wrapping that you enjoy far longer.


----------



## Elfcat

Forgotten_Futures said:


> Objectification always comes into play somewhere. If you masturbate, you're objectifying someone or something in order to get off. Thus far in life I've come to the tentative conclusion that if someone turns you on simply by existing, it's probably not admiration.



Yes, but the fact is we are all wired to turn on to the existence of those who are transmitting the wavelengths to which we're tuned. Further up in the thread someone wrote of "the sense the good lord gave the common mutt". Yes, I'm sure my newest yet-to-be-fixed kitten who just for the hell of it climbed up on the long-spayed queen of the house and nibbled her neck for a second had been deeply embroiled in worry about whether he was being objectifying. <chuckle>


----------



## Elfcat

I've had run-ins myself in the past with some erstwhile compatriots who nearly accused me of heresy for saying I think exercise is a good thing. I mean, you gotta have some strong muscles, bones and blood vessels to be as healthy as possible. Personally I think telling someone what they think of themselves is pretty presumptuous anyway. It's a little like the anti-circumcision guy I run into occasionally. He tells me I'm in denial about missing something I don't even remember having! As if suddenly feeling rotten about it or being consumed with speculation about how it would feel to be "unmutilated" would help anything.


----------



## katystc

Hi everybody... its been awhile since i have been to the dimensions site! Nice to be back. I have enjoyed reading, and learned a lot from, these posts about my story. I certainly regret making the impression that all men who are attracted to big women are kooks. No way. I did say in my story that I met a lot of guys when i weighed 360, and had more sex than I had at 160... but I suppose the implication that not all of those guys were nutso didn't translate. I included the stories I did because A. they were funny, in retrospect; and B. they did really chip away at my self esteem. I have seen a few women post on here in repsponse to the story who understand what I am talking about. You spend so much time, as a big woman, trying to fit in, trying to let the world see the you that you see, trying to feel sexy, and then all it takes is one weirdo FA to make you feel, deep down, that yes, you are a freak. I am just being honest. It makes me mad that this is the experience of some of us. 

For those of you who are FAs and do not fit that category, I want to say thank you. Thank you for finding me beautiful, listening to me, and even at times falling in love. I remember one guy, who i really loved, said to me, "Katy, I would love you even if you were thin." This was so amazing to hear. So, yes, you are not all gnomes, not by far. 

I'm not sure how many of you who posted actually read the whole story. It's certainly open to criticism! There are a lot of things I would do differently if I had had more space. They wanted me to compact an entire life in 5000 words... anyway... It sounds trite, but I was trying to convey my sisterhood with big women; i do still feel like a sell-out of sorts. I think that big women (and men...I have always been attracted to big men) are beautiful. I did something that was right for me, after a lifetime of anorexia, bulimia, and extreme obesity. I now live a life where food is not the center of my world. I have been liberated from food, not from my fatness. It was the liberation from the addictions, etc that i wanted, and damnit, no one can tell me that i made the wrong decision for myself. It was my decision. 

Anyway, thank you for giving me this space, and I look forward to your responses, if you have any! 

Yours,
Katy St. Clair


----------



## Jon Blaze

katystc said:


> Hi everybody... its been awhile since i have been to the dimensions site! Nice to be back. I have enjoyed reading, and learned a lot from, these posts about my story. I certainly regret making the impression that all men who are attracted to big women are kooks. No way. I did say in my story that I met a lot of guys when i weighed 360, and had more sex than I had at 160... but I suppose the implication that not all of those guys were nutso didn't translate. I included the stories I did because A. they were funny, in retrospect; and B. they did really chip away at my self esteem. I have seen a few women post on here in repsponse to the story who understand what I am talking about. You spend so much time, as a big woman, trying to fit in, trying to let the world see the you that you see, trying to feel sexy, and then all it takes is one weirdo FA to make you feel, deep down, that yes, you are a freak. I am just being honest. It makes me mad that this is the experience of some of us.
> 
> For those of you who are FAs and do not fit that category, I want to say thank you. Thank you for finding me beautiful, listening to me, and even at times falling in love. I remember one guy, who i really loved, said to me, "Katy, I would love you even if you were thin." This was so amazing to hear. So, yes, you are not all gnomes, not by far.
> 
> I'm not sure how many of you who posted actually read the whole story. It's certainly open to criticism! There are a lot of things I would do differently if I had had more space. They wanted me to compact an entire life in 5000 words... anyway... It sounds trite, but I was trying to convey my sisterhood with big women; i do still feel like a sell-out of sorts. I think that big women (and men...I have always been attracted to big men) are beautiful. I did something that was right for me, after a lifetime of anorexia, bulimia, and extreme obesity. I now live a life where food is not the center of my world. I have been liberated from food, not from my fatness. It was the liberation from the addictions, etc that i wanted, and damnit, no one can tell me that i made the wrong decision for myself. It was my decision.
> 
> Anyway, thank you for giving me this space, and I look forward to your responses, if you have any!
> 
> Yours,
> Katy St. Clair



FINALLY! We get some closure.


----------



## PursyMarr1992

I think that as far as the kinky thing goes... everyone is going to have their own thing. I've dated tons of guys that aren't FAs, and they might think its weird that I like different kinds of fat play but a guy thats a feeder and meets up with me, might view that as just something that's common and unexciting. 

And sometimes, one gets carried away when they dont have the physical person in front of them. It's alot easier for me to throw away social norms when I'm IMing someone and get down to what I would really like. And sometimes, the idea is better than the reality. Does the idea of getting tied up and forcefed brownies until I can barely breathe turn me on? Hell yeah. Actual practice, not so much.


----------



## superodalisque

Ray Ros said:


> (Pls. accpt/excuse the abrviatns I use to save space/time),,,, As a startr let me say I'v been a fat admirer all my life... I hv been to meetings and dances and unfortunately, the men seem to b below par...Most r unketpt, potbellied, beards..,poor clothng....some downright slobs...I hv yet to meet one tht luks like a movie star or a Wall St. executive....Most not succesful financially or othrwise...Women seem to b a litle betr but also like belonging to lower classes....Tht's wht a friend of mine sed when I mentiond my prefrence...."U'd only find those girls in the lowe classes"...Why, I replied vehemently..."cuz only a woman in that class wud let herself grow an ass like that.."...Cudnt reply...He had a point....Cn u imagine a first lady at 450 plus lbs<<...or a princess, a queen??...So my experience is most of us that like big women are sorta strange...We hv to admit we r a subculture and the upper classes and th rich are not into it....So it is a bad lot for big girls...Particulrly SSBBWs...They wil eithr get a weirdo, or a wacko or a failure (like me..,67 yrs, not much money or future....Hispanic.., in special situation, educatd, tho)...,Altho some girls r a litle betr not many ar artistic, or with degrees...how many Mastrs and PHDs r thr here??....Sorry,., that is my take, my experience...And yet.., I cn not help but admire them & lov them....All that cottage cheese, stretch markds...cellulite..I cn not commit eithr....So, many of us r not only weirdos,. etc.., but also users...sorta..,More thn 15 yrs in th movment...Saw Dimensions from its beginnigs, stapled, photocopies..,but I wil always admire th big, fat girls...almost no limit....Anybody cn write to me....Tnx...RAY [email protected]..




believe it or not i understand what he's trying to say. i don't think its the people that is really the problem i think its the impressions that events leave that is the real problem often. i do think the bar needs to be raised on the standards set sometimes. sometimes we have to push ourselves to the next level. FAs need to put themselves together better out of respect for the bbws. even for the the sake of fat acceptance and how we look to the general public. BBWs have a dificult time finding what they would really like to have to wear at an event, especially when you get to the super sizes. we spend lots of time asking other women where they get things. events are really good for shopping tips lol. but i have noticed that there has been a real improvement. i've seen pix of past events. and as bbws have more resources they present themselves much better. 

FAs are always telling me that i'm supposedly unusual since i'm single educated (now PHD and 2 MAs in different fields)i know you'd never believe it by reading my grammar. i tell them thats not true at all. in fact when i go to events the women are really intelligent. they are some of the most interesting women i know. but i do find that they might not mention their intellectual or economic achievements. men tend to get very frightened when you do. if i start the kind f conversation i like to have personally, i often get a blank stare. they get down right scared when i mention exactly what i do--all of it.


----------



## LillyBBBW

superodalisque said:


> believe it or not i understand what he's trying to say. i don't think its the people that is really the problem i think its the impressions that events leave that is the real problem often. i do think the bar needs to be raised on the standards set sometimes. sometimes we have to push ourselves to the next level. FAs need to put themselves together better out of respect for the bbws. even for the the sake of fat acceptance and how we look to the general public. BBWs have a dificult time finding what they would really like to have to wear at an event, especially when you get to the super sizes. we spend lots of time asking other women where they get things. events are really good for shopping tips lol. but i have noticed that there has been a real improvement. i've seen pix of past events. and as bbws have more resources they present themselves much better.
> 
> FAs are always telling me that i'm supposedly unusual since i'm single educated (now PHD and 2 MAs in different fields)i know you'd never believe it by reading my grammar. i tell them thats not true at all. in fact when i go to events the women are really intelligent. they are some of the most interesting women i know. but i do find that they might not mention their intellectual or economic achievements. men tend to get very frightened when you do. if i start the kind f conversation i like to have personally, i often get a blank stare. they get down right scared when i mention exactly what i do--all of it.



I used to go out of my way to make sure I looked like $1,000,000 everytime I left the house. I wore makeup, my hair and nails were done, I was pressed out and fashionable. I don't do that so much anymore mainly because I got tired of caring what impression everyone else is getting. It seemed I wore the weight of the world on my shoulders and I had to represent 40 year olds, fat women, black women, Christainity, chicks from the projects and all these trappings of life. Maybe I just got old or exhausted but I felt like today is the day that I'm just going to live my life and wear what I want to wear and to hell with everyone else - they're on their own. I'm wearing horizontal stripes and I'm wearing Crocs. If somebody wants to look and say, "See, that's what all fat/black/chicks/Christians/Switchboard ops do," then let them go with it. I've just gotten so tired of it all.

I think that the public perception of FA's is ruled by the outspoken freaks who have no problems with snapping your bra strap from behind to get your attention and saying, "Boy, you iz a biggun," with a crooked leer. The nice ones are just living their lives quietly and don't want to have to be the public spokesperson in every corner of the globe. I think it's a tall order to try to change public perception by asking average citizens to dance around to get noticed. Everytime an article is published or someone is asked to speak it is always somebody with a horror story or someone with something awful to say. Anything positive doesn't sell mags, nobody wants to hear form the fat woman with a doctorate unless she says, "I changed my life with the 60 day weight plan!" 

I would love to see a print magazine of some sort. At this point I don't think the voices of the porn smugglers and the people who run from them are underrepresented in the media nor will they ever be. When does the cool responsible FA get to say something or the fat person whose life revolves around her gifts and accomplishments rather than her constant struggle with her weight? There's a time and place for everything I guess but it kills me that someone like Carnie Wilson has done so many philanthropic things yet they are rarely ever mentioned unless she's willing to stand inside a pair of 38 jeans, hold the waist band out and smile.


----------



## superodalisque

LillyBBBW said:


> I used to go out of my way to make sure I looked like $1,000,000 everytime I left the house. I wore makeup, my hair and nails were done, I was pressed out and fashionable. I don't do that so much anymore mainly because I got tired of caring what impression everyone else is getting. It seemed I wore the weight of the world on my shoulders and I had to represent 40 year olds, fat women, black women, Christainity, chicks from the projects and all these trappings of life. Maybe I just got old or exhausted but I felt like today is the day that I'm just going to live my life and wear what I want to wear and to hell with everyone else - they're on their own. I'm wearing horizontal stripes and I'm wearing Crocs. If somebody wants to look and say, "See, that's what all fat/black/chicks/Christians/Switchboard ops do," then let them go with it. I've just gotten so tired of it all.
> 
> I think that the public perception of FA's is ruled by the outspoken freaks who have no problems with snapping your bra strap from behind to get your attention and saying, "Boy, you iz a biggun," with a crooked leer. The nice ones are just living their lives quietly and don't want to have to be the public spokesperson in every corner of the globe. I think it's a tall order to try to change public perception by asking average citizens to dance around to get noticed. Everytime an article is published or someone is asked to speak it is always somebody with a horror story or someone with something awful to say. Anything positive doesn't sell mags, nobody wants to hear form the fat woman with a doctorate unless she says, "I changed my life with the 60 day weight plan!"
> 
> I would love to see a print magazine of some sort. At this point I don't think the voices of the porn smugglers and the people who run from them are underrepresented in the media nor will they ever be. When does the cool responsible FA get to say something or the fat person whose life revolves around her gifts and accomplishments rather than her constant struggle with her weight? There's a time and place for everything I guess but it kills me that someone like Carnie Wilson has done so many philanthropic things yet they are rarely ever mentioned unless she's willing to stand inside a pair of 38 jeans, hold the waist band out and smile.




...and this is why you were exactly one of the great women i was thinking of when i posted!


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## mossystate

That, Lilly, was a wonderful post.


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## RedVelvet

No kidding.....

Lilly is one of my heroines.


Wow!


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## ripley

LillyBBBW said:


> I would love to see a print magazine of some sort. At this point I don't think the voices of the porn smugglers and the people who run from them are underrepresented in the media nor will they ever be. When does the cool responsible FA get to say something or the fat person whose life revolves around her gifts and accomplishments rather than her constant struggle with her weight? There's a time and place for everything I guess but it kills me that someone like Carnie Wilson has done so many philanthropic things yet they are rarely ever mentioned unless she's willing to stand inside a pair of 38 jeans, hold the waist band out and smile.



I miss Radiance. 


Great post, Miss Lilly.


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## Tina

I miss it, too, Rip. Saved all my copies, but I wish they were still publishing.

I echo the praise for Lilly's post and agree with you wholeheartedly, Lilly. :wubu:


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