# Fat Admiration - Journals, Papers, Books, Blog Posts and News Articles Thread...



## James (Apr 18, 2009)

Fat Admiration is a subject that has been getting greater news and TV coverage in recent years. As our visibility as a group increases, I figured that it might be interesting/useful, from the point of view of seeing whats being said and written about us, to create a thread relating to media articles and scientific studies on the subject. 

Additionally, whilst researching a related topic for a sociology paper, I've been coming across several interesting papers relating to Fat Admiration. One in particular (Big Beautiful Women: The Body Size Preferences of Male Fat Admirers, Swami, Tovee, 2009) considers the range of body type preferences (FAs have a much broader aesthetic), which has led other researchers to question if so called 'normal' weight range preferences in Non- FAs (typically around +/- 30lbs) are more fetishistic in nature than FAs? 

*The Fat Admirer - Erich Goode*

After following up on a few authors, I came across a book called 'Extreme Deviance'... Whilst initially a little irritated by the title, I'm glad I took a look through the chapter on Fat Admiration as it makes a whole lot of useful and interesting observations on FA behavior, different types of FA, the reasons why people remain closeted, the dynamics of FA guilt etc.... 

here's the link to the google book . The article is pages 80 to 89... The conclusion on page 89 is worth looking at alone, even if you don't fancy reading the whole article...

*"Differently Straight" - BStu (Shapely Prose)*

This is a pretty good account of the FA experience from a guy who used to post here a couple of years ago.


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## katherine22 (Apr 18, 2009)

James said:


> Fat Admiration is a subject that has been getting greater news and TV coverage in recent years. As our visibility as a group increases, I figured that it might be interesting/useful, from the point of view of seeing whats being said and written about us, to create a thread relating to media articles and scientific studies on the subject.
> 
> Additionally, whilst researching a related topic for a sociology paper, I've been coming across several interesting papers relating to Fat Admiration. One in particular (Big Beautiful Women: The Body Size Preferences of Male Fat Admirers, Swami, Tovee, 2009) considers the range of body type preferences (FAs have a much broader aesthetic), which has led other researchers to question if so called 'normal' weight range preferences in Non- FAs (typically around +/- 30lbs) are more fetishistic in nature than FAs?
> 
> ...



I appreciate your starting this thread to discuss how fat admiration is being viewed in academia and mainstream culture. At peril of stating the obvious, haven't all people who have deviated from the norm had to contend with derision in engaging in choices rediculed by the those who cannot think beyond the norm? It takes courage to be a fat admirer - no one who has brought new awareness in the world was embraced heroically, Plato drinking hemlock is the enduring reminder of that.


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## marlowegarp (Apr 18, 2009)

"There must be something wrong with him if he likes me the way I am." GAAHHH!
It's like some cruel logic puzzle.


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## CCC (Apr 18, 2009)

Thanks for posting the BStu blog entry. It's well-written and informative, especially for someone who doesn't quite understand it all quite yet. I think I may send the link to my mother...


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## Littleghost (Apr 18, 2009)

Here's an earlier article by the same guy in another sexuality book: http://books.google.com/books?id=grWb6zyrEhsC&pg=PA325&dq=Fat+Admirer

And also some more books academic and not in google books, some interesting, some just schlocky 'weird' pieces:
http://books.google.com/books?q=Fat+Admirer&btnG=Search+Books


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## James (Apr 18, 2009)

marlowegarp said:


> "There must be something wrong with him if he likes me the way I am." GAAHHH!
> It's like some cruel logic puzzle.



Yeah, I think a lot of us hear you on that! Cruel logic puzzle indeed!

I think this is what FAs actually mean when they say they prefer confident BBWs... i.e. a confident BBW doesn't view one's attraction to her as a suspicious, sinister or 'wrong' behavior...


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## Carrie (Apr 18, 2009)

James said:


> Yeah, I think a lot of us hear you on that! Cruel logic puzzle indeed!
> 
> I think this is what FAs actually mean when they say they prefer confident BBWs... i.e. a confident BBW doesn't view one's attraction to her as a suspicious, sinister or 'wrong' behavior...


Hmm, I don't know about that, James; that's not my perception of that phrase, having been on the receiving end of it, but it's definitely possible that I've misinterpreted it. I'd be very interested in hearing other FAs' takes on it. I think it would make a great thread, actually.


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## James (Apr 18, 2009)

its entirely possible that different FAs mean different things when they say that they prefer 'confident' partners. For me this has meant that my attraction isn't on trial or considered wrong... Maybe I'll start a thread on the subject...? (on here or the main board..? hmmm?)


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## Carrie (Apr 18, 2009)

James said:


> Maybe I'll start a thread on the subject...? (on here or the main board..? hmmm?)


I think that's what I just suggested. 

And here seems the perfect spot!


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## exile in thighville (Apr 18, 2009)

this should probably be an archive in the main site area rather than a thread, or at least a sticky.

but here:

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/06/22/big_love
http://www.orlandoweekly.com/columns/story.asp?id=11662
http://www.clevescene.com/2003-10-01/news/big-game-hunters
http://livinginsmallsizes.com/2007/06/07/inside-the-world-of-fat-sex (this link refers to an article from Details that someone should find and scan, it's not on the web)

and of my own:

http://stylusmagazine.com/reviews/gravy-train/all-the-sweet-stuff.htm
http://kissoutthejams.blogspot.com/2008/04/conflict-of-interest.html
http://askaguywholikesfatchicks.blogspot.com

be warned, some of these are not positive articles, but i think it would be an delusional mistake to not include them for reference.


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## James (Apr 19, 2009)

exile in thighville said:


> http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/06/22/big_love








*
"I won't accept being labeled a closet Kevorkian just because I love a woman and her fat, too"*

Nice article!


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## katherine22 (May 3, 2009)

James said:


> Yeah, I think a lot of us hear you on that! Cruel logic puzzle indeed!
> 
> I think this is what FAs actually mean when they say they prefer confident BBWs... i.e. a confident BBW doesn't view one's attraction to her as a suspicious, sinister or 'wrong' behavior...



Your preference for a BBW who considers your attraction to her reasonable is a tall order for a BBW or a thin woman. There is a double standard of sexual conduct defined as men being able to respond to their sexual desires with impunity and women who are conditioned to believe that the only appropriate outlet for their sexuality is a committed relationship or marriage. Most women feel conflicted about their sexuality since they receive conflicting messages from the culture and that conflict is reflected in feeling uncomfortable with male attention. Women who sexually behave on their own terms have been denigrated as "nymphos" or mentally ill.


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## MisticalMisty (May 3, 2009)

*sigh* I miss Brian!

James, I guess by your definition I'm a "confident" bbw. However, and I think you'll agree, confidence embodies so many other things as well.

Nice thread.


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## zosimos (May 3, 2009)

James, thanks for posting that link to the google book Extreme Deviance and that Erich Goode article in it. Some interesting and kind of sad stories in there. But I love how they call serious FAs "mountain men." Actually, that whole book looks pretty fascinating, despite it's silly title. Where I come from, viewing things like tattoos, FAs, and belief in aliens as somehow ""*extreme*"" is itself kinda "extreme" in a hilarious way.


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## James (May 9, 2009)

More coverage of the Swami paper...

http://www.ukmedix.com/weight-loss/some_men_want_fat_women4610.cfm

Note the end of article disclaimer...


> You should always strive to have a healthy BMI because it is the healthiest way to be and not because of any other reason


 :doh: a "healthy" BMI? Gah... this isn't the place for discussing it perhaps, but the notion that BMI is any measure of health whatsoever is infuriatingly misguided!


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## superodalisque (Jul 3, 2009)

great thread and interesting article. 

i also like the definition of a confident BBW discussed here since a lot of BBWs translate that into sexually available instead of an unquestioning submission to the fact that she herself is an attractive woman. sexual availability does not necessarily = confidence. it was good to clear that up.


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## James (Jul 17, 2009)

but its tangentially relevant to FAs...



> ....However, even though the mainstream of the world is beginning to see that full figured women are also sexy, some men are too concerned about their image. They worry that their friends or relatives wont approve their relationship with a big woman. So they choose a traditional girlfriend or wife. But behind their closed doors, they take out their credit cards and browse through adult websites with big beautiful women.


http://www.ecommerce-journal.com/articles/16887_bbw_when_size_matters


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## butch (Jul 19, 2009)

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the ethical controversy that surrounds Erich Goode's work. He slept with a lot of fat women when he was doing his academic research, and that is big no no in the social sciences field. 

Here's his info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Goode

Unfortunately his sexual history has degraded the standing of his research in the academia, and that is a real shame, becasue FAs and Fat people deserve better.


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## alienlanes (Jul 19, 2009)

butch said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned the ethical controversy that surrounds Erich Goode's work. He slept with a lot of fat women when he was doing his academic research, and that is big no no in the social sciences field.
> 
> Here's his info:
> 
> ...



Yuck.

I had never heard of this guy until you posted, but apparently he was a sociologist who joined NAAFA in the early 80s and slept around as part of his "research." Twenty years later he published a vaguely self-congratulatory article in a sociology journal about what a groundbreaking researcher he was for breaking the taboo on sleeping with your subjects. His academic colleagues (rightly) called him out on it.

I did some googling; you can read his whole article here.

Goode is ambiguous, perhaps deliberately, as to whether he's genuinely attracted to fat women or whether he was just pretending to be so that he could break into the community for the sake of his research. He identifies himself to other NAAFA members as an FA, but he also tells some lame, self-justifying stories about how the mean NAAFA people wouldn't let him study them until he proved his bona fides by sleeping with a bunch of fat women. Eventually he ends up fathering a child out of wedlock with one of his informants.

The impression the article gives is of a guy with poor social skills and no self-awareness. It seems not to have occurred to him that hopping into bed with every woman who made herself available would disrupt his attempts to get an unbiased view of the scene. How does a guy without a drama radar become a sociologist, anyway?

To be fair, it's interesting to read an outsider's account of what NAAFA was like back in the day. Some of the situations and personalities Goode describes could have come straight from Dims 2009. (History moves on, but drama springs eternal.) Still, my verdict is "clueless tool."


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## Carrie (Jul 19, 2009)

alienlanes said:


> Yuck.
> 
> I had never heard of this guy until you posted, but apparently he was a sociologist who joined NAAFA in the early 80s and slept around as part of his "research." Twenty years later he published a vaguely self-congratulatory article in a sociology journal about what a groundbreaking researcher he was for breaking the taboo on sleeping with your subjects. His academic colleagues (rightly) called him out on it.
> 
> ...



Agreed 100%. I just read his article, too, and wow. It makes me want to take a shower, and not in a good way. Clueless and smug, a very unattractive combination.


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## James (Sep 9, 2009)

From 1976....

Its interesting to see the term used in print this early on. I believe that this is the first record (on the internet at least) of the words 'fat admirer' being used?

I'm not sure about the 'break her neck' comment... I would like to assume that was meant in a comedic manner but without qualification from the journalist, I guess there is no way of knowing?


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## James (Oct 16, 2009)

I'm not sure if the FA forum is the best place for this one as its a bit weight gain/relationship specific... but it popped up on my 'fat admirer' google alert so I figured I'd share the link.

http://www.metrotimes.com/culture/story.asp?id=14468

(n.b. for hetero FFAs - there's a cute little image on the page you may like? I didn't link it here because it probably breaches dims rules)

[edit - I just realized that this article is also being discussed on the main board - http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65249]


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## James (Nov 5, 2009)

"I am a Fat Admirer"

article posted on sizenet - http://www.sizenet.com/showdoc.asp?id=242


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## Webmaster (Nov 5, 2009)

James said:


> ...Erich Goode....




I remember Erich. He was a pretty serious researcher and we had some interesting discussions at Long Island NAAFA events in the early 1980s.


And Karen Scott-Jones! Now there was a fighter!


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## superodalisque (Nov 11, 2009)

zosimos said:


> James, thanks for posting that link to the google book Extreme Deviance and that Erich Goode article in it. Some interesting and kind of sad stories in there. But I love how they call serious FAs "mountain men." Actually, that whole book looks pretty fascinating, despite it's silly title. Where I come from, viewing things like tattoos, FAs, and belief in aliens as somehow ""*extreme*"" is itself kinda "extreme" in a hilarious way.



it is a little nuts, but saying as an SSBBW its weird but i get approached by a lot of X-sports types--trick bikers, base jumpers, high divers, mountain climbers,motocross guys etc... in short a lot of risk takers. i've always wondered why. when i was in my 30s i thought it was because i looked their age. now that i'm 46 i'm pretty sure i don't look like a 20 something anymore. i'm not sure if the book will answer any of my questions but at least it looks interesting.

here's a link for those who want to take a look at the FAT STUDIES READER 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0814776310/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

needless to say i'm buying it


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## James (Nov 11, 2009)

It does look like a great book. Thanks for the link SuperO


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## superodalisque (Nov 12, 2009)

heres a nice breakdoown of fat studies:

http://chronicle.com/article/No-Fear-of-Fat/49041/


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## James (Dec 17, 2009)

A widely held presumption is that sexual selection is determined by a genetic predisposition to seek out a physically healthy partner. This is often cited as a rationale for the predominant preference for thin partners.

A paper published in August by Swami and Furnham, in the Archive of Sexual Behavior journal, addresses the existence of Fat Admirers in relation to this presumption. It found that while FAs were physically attracted to fatter body types, when asked what they presumed to be a healthy body type they selected significantly thinner ones. 

http://www.springerlink.com/content/243703127hg7k1p8/
Swami & Furnham, 2009, Big and Beautiful: Attractiveness and Health Ratings of the Female Body by Male &#8216;&#8216;Fat Admirers’’

Here's the abstract:


> This study examined the body weight and waistto- hip ratio (WHR) preferences of &#8216;&#8216;fat admirers’’ (FAs), that is, individuals who are sexually attracted to heavier partners. Fifty-six heterosexual men involved in the FA community rated a series of line drawings that varied in three levels of body weight and six of WHR for physical attractiveness and health. The results showed significant main effects of body weight and WHR, as well as a significant body weight · WHR interaction for both health ratings. In general, there was a preference for heavyweight figures and high WHRs for ratings of attractiveness and normal-weight figures and mid-ranging WHRs for ratings of health. Limitations of the study and explanations for fat admiration are discussed.


and a section of the conclusion that had me raising an eyebrow a couple of times (I'm glad the researcher acknowledges the hypothetical nature of his conclusions though);



> Finally, it seems plausible that male FA is paraphilic in the sense of it being a non-mainstream sexual practice without necessarily implying dysfunction or deviance. For instance, it may be that hunger or food was involved in the behavioral imprinting of a fat fetish in early childhood, a hypothesis favored by some psychoanalysts and demonstrated experimentally in non-human species (cf. Massie & Szajnberg, 1997; Plaud & Martini, 1999). A related theory also based on the principles of behavioral imprinting argues that when young men masturbate, the objects that are frequently nearby at the time of masturbation become objects of arousal in the future (Lowenstein, 2002). The individual is thus associating the object with sexual orgasm, and this may include either eroticized images of overweight individuals, food, and so on. In preliminary discussions of &#8216;&#8216;fat heterosexuality,’’ Saguy (2002) has described FA in similar terms: she argues that the attraction FAs have for BBWs is a form of fetishism that ultimately reinforces gender inequality. In this view, male fat admiration may not be much different from &#8216;&#8216;thin heterosexuality,’’ in that both objectify women and, in doing so, reinforce the vulnerability of overweight women. Related eroticized behaviors, such as that between &#8216;&#8216;feeders’’ and &#8216;&#8216;feedees,’’ may underscore this aspect of vulnerability. A feeder, as the name suggests, is an individual in a relationship with a feedee, who is provided with an abundant supply of food either to encourage weight gain or to take pleasure from the act of eating. Saguy (2002) suggests that feeders (who tend to be men) may have the upper hand in such relationships, as feedees become dependent on them for more than just nutritional intake. In this view, then, fat admiration is located within dynamic complex of gendered forces, where the vulnerability of overweight and obese women becomes sexually arousing for some men. However, such dynamics may only be part of the story. For one thing, &#8216;&#8216;squashing’’-another commonmale FA fantasy, in which one or several large women sit on a FA-may give women a sense of power over the men they squash. In turn, the squashed men may take pleasure in the feeling of being overpowered.
> 
> Clearly, more careful and detailed studies are required to examine these hypotheses. This study has made a start in documenting the attractiveness and health preferences of FAs. These findings may have important consequences for our understanding of eating and body weight disorders, as it would appear that FAs do not conform to &#8216;&#8216;mainstream’’ societal ideals of what constitutes an attractive body. Extending the present research can only help elucidate the manner in which such preferences are formed and what effect that might have on the self-esteem of overweight
> individuals and their admirers.


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