# sony got some controversy at E3 with the game called fat princess



## gangstadawg (Jul 25, 2008)

im not going to say anything on it im just going to post a link to the story and let you guys say your opinions on this.


http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/07/24/sony039s-fat-princess-causing-controversy


----------



## UncannyBruceman (Jul 25, 2008)

The first letter cited in the article actually comes from a fat girl. Her choice of words tell me that she's got some self acceptance issues and probably hasn't ever come through these doors.

Sony comments that the concept artist is female, but does not comment on whether she is fat or not. 

I'm sure there would have been mixed reviews on this and I'm not surprised that some fat girls find it offensive that the object of the game is to fatten up the enemy's princess so they can't haul her back...instead of doing it because that's what a princess ought to look like!

I'm just waiting for Meme Roth to open her jaws on this one...


----------



## gangstadawg (Jul 25, 2008)

UncannyBruceman said:


> The first letter cited in the article actually comes from a fat girl. Her choice of words tell me that she's got some self acceptance issues and probably hasn't ever come through these doors.
> 
> Sony comments that the concept artist is female, but does not comment on whether she is fat or not.
> 
> ...



meme roth prolly will start sqawking when this comes out.


----------



## kioewen (Jul 25, 2008)

UncannyBruceman said:


> I'm not surprised that some fat girls find it offensive that the object of the game is to fatten up the enemy's princess so they can't haul her back...instead of doing it because that's what a princess ought to look like!


It would be wonderful if someone could revise the game, ever so slightly, to make that the premise. The princess in the picture is very cute.

I had to laugh at the first blogger's use of the word "heteronormative". Riiiiight. Anything that doesn't support what is undoubtedly her preferred notion of sexual relations (same sex) is to be treated as politically immoral.

How much do you want to bet that her real issue with the game isn't so much the weight issue, but simply that it involves a male knight rescuing a female princess?


----------



## Happenstance (Jul 25, 2008)

Well, I flinched at the first review... I'm glad it's sarcasm?


----------



## UncannyBruceman (Jul 25, 2008)

kioewen said:


> I had to laugh at the first blogger's use of the word "heteronormative". Riiiiight. Anything that doesn't support what is undoubtedly her preferred notion of sexual relations (same sex) is to be treated as politically immoral.
> 
> How much do you want to bet that her real issue with the game isn't so much the weight issue, but simply that it involves a male knight rescuing a female princess?



It could go either way on this one...she DID say something along the lines of "why would anyone want to rescue a fat girl when fat people are miserable pieces of human garbage"...

The girl clearly has a lot of personal demons that need to be exorcised (and not exercised).


----------



## aheartofstars (Jul 25, 2008)

I'm not sure the game is anti-fat. I would either need to read a more accurate description of the game, or play it myself to know better, but from the provided description it sounds like it could have a somewhat fat acceptance stance to it. It definitely is not very feminist, but that is a different topic I suppose. Think of it like this. Even though the princess is getting fat, her prince still wants to rescue her. I think the game portrays women in a negative way, and I honestly think that the fat part is the least of its problems.


----------



## Victim (Jul 25, 2008)

If I was a writer for that game, I'd put the prince in a boring arranged marriage with the princess and make it apparent that he is longing for something that isn't there.

After the game when the princess is fat, the prince goes to rescue her only because it is his duty, but upon discovering what she has become, falls madly in love with her.

OK, I should probably save this for my stories...


----------



## aheartofstars (Jul 25, 2008)

Victim said:


> If I was a writer for that game, I'd put the prince in a boring arranged marriage with the princess and make it apparent that he is longing for something that isn't there.
> 
> After the game when the princess is fat, the prince goes to rescue her only because it is his duty, but upon discovering what she has become, falls madly in love with her.
> 
> OK, I should probably save this for my stories...



That would make the "fat" part better, I suppose.


----------



## mossystate (Jul 25, 2008)

aheartofstars said:


> I'm not sure the game is anti-fat. I would either need to read a more accurate description of the game, or play it myself to know better, but from the provided description it sounds like it could have a somewhat fat acceptance stance to it. It definitely is not very feminist, but that is a different topic I suppose. Think of it like this. Even though the princess is getting fat, her prince still wants to rescue her. I think the game portrays women in a negative way, and I honestly think that the fat part is the least of its problems.



exactly

and the bit of the first review was sarcasm

I just don't want young kids playing this thing. Same goes for probably a majority of vid games. One day, girls/women won't be portrayed as needing...rescuing. Weird how making fat part of the equation automatically makes it positive...hmmm. Whine all ' you ' want about any fallout....it is a good to see and discuss. Oh, and no one should worry.....those pesky feminists are getting soundly bashed in the comments section....phew....


----------



## olwen (Jul 25, 2008)

aheartofstars said:


> I'm not sure the game is anti-fat. I would either need to read a more accurate description of the game, or play it myself to know better, but from the provided description it sounds like it could have a somewhat fat acceptance stance to it. It definitely is not very feminist, but that is a different topic I suppose. Think of it like this. Even though the princess is getting fat, her prince still wants to rescue her. I think the game portrays women in a negative way, and I honestly think that the fat part is the least of its problems.



Aren't most video games misogynist in some way? That doesn't seem to be the part the is causing the controversy. If it were there are loads of games to choose from. 

If I were into gaming, I'd play this game just to see what happens _after _he rescues the princess. Would there be a little movie?


----------



## aheartofstars (Jul 25, 2008)

If I had children, I wouldn't let them play the game or if I did let them play it they would have to hear a whole lecture about how it is reinforces the comodification of women, and how violence has serious consequences in life, which I would need to do for nearly all of the games out there.


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 25, 2008)

mossystate said:


> Oh, and no one should worry.....those pesky feminists are getting soundly bashed in the comments section....phew....



Gawd. Not the feminists again. They're suuuuuuuuuuch a drag.

kioewen, I don't know about anyone else, but your heteronormativity turns me on.




























Psych!


----------



## olwen (Jul 25, 2008)

some quick gamining stats:

click here


----------



## aheartofstars (Jul 25, 2008)

I think that is the problem with the whole "controversy." People are upset about the wrong problem. As far as I can tell, the game is not anti-fat, but it is pro-commodification of women, which may be a worse offense as a lot of fat bashing stems from the trade of women.


----------



## aheartofstars (Jul 25, 2008)

Feminism and feminists are not bad, but the women commenting on the game do not know what they are talking about.


----------



## aheartofstars (Jul 25, 2008)

Just because a large percentage of women are playing video games, it does not mean that the content of the video games is feminist. In fact, in many ways women perpetuate an anti-feminist attitude.


----------



## IrishBard (Jul 25, 2008)

It's like working for Lucasarts. All people want is the same rubbish churned out at a pace fast enough to smash brick walls, whilst when something original or thought provoking comings into being, some people decide to jump up and down like Kangaroos in the mating season in a mine feild, shouting that the game has some kind of viriant diesease because of its new ground. 

honestly, Fat Princess was one of the tamest things at E3, and yet it still has an article written about its controversy. which would you consider more controversial, chainsaw to the face or giving a woman food, shooting african peasants or gathering cake.


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 25, 2008)

IrishBard said:


> which would you consider more controversial, chainsaw to the face or giving a woman food, shooting african peasants or gathering cake.



You're not fat, are you?


----------



## Waxwing (Jul 25, 2008)

olwen said:


> Aren't most video games misogynist in some way? That doesn't seem to be the part the is causing the controversy. If it were there are loads of games to choose from.
> 
> If I were into gaming, I'd play this game just to see what happens _after _he rescues the princess. Would there be a little movie?



They used to be, but I've noticed a really fantastic trend of stronger, more badass female characters in video games. This coincides with more female designers getting into the business. It's really heartening.


----------



## mossystate (Jul 25, 2008)

IrishBard said:


> honestly, Fat Princess was one of the tamest things at E3, and yet it still has an article written about its controversy. which would you consider more controversial, chainsaw to the face or giving a woman food, shooting african peasants or gathering cake.




so, you won't be upset about anything on this earth....if there is something ' more horrible ' out there ( and..way to go for not seeing the finer points here ).....ok...now, I am holding you to that...and I will be watching..


----------



## gangstadawg (Jul 25, 2008)

Victim said:


> If I was a writer for that game, I'd put the prince in a boring arranged marriage with the princess and make it apparent that he is longing for something that isn't there.
> 
> After the game when the princess is fat, the prince goes to rescue her only because it is his duty, but upon discovering what she has become, falls madly in love with her.
> 
> OK, I should probably save this for my stories...



you do realise its a multi-player game right?


----------



## gangstadawg (Jul 25, 2008)

IrishBard said:


> It's like working for Lucasarts. All people want is the same rubbish churned out at a pace fast enough to smash brick walls, whilst when something original or thought provoking comings into being, some people decide to jump up and down like Kangaroos in the mating season in a mine feild, shouting that the game has some kind of viriant diesease because of its new ground.
> 
> honestly, Fat Princess was one of the tamest things at E3, and yet it still has an article written about its controversy. which would you consider more controversial, chainsaw to the face or giving a woman food, shooting african peasants or gathering cake.


RE5 is gonna cause more controversy AGAIN. alot of gamers remember when the first few trailers of resident evil 5 when they came out and people started calling it racist.


----------



## Victim (Jul 25, 2008)

gangstadawg said:


> you do realise its a multi-player game right?



Most have some kind of single player storyline or at least a back story. Unless they are trying to be Strifeshadow or something like that.


----------



## gangstadawg (Jul 25, 2008)

Victim said:


> Most have some kind of single player storyline or at least a back story. Unless they are trying to be Strifeshadow or something like that.


all i know is that the game has a capture the flag feel to it. and there is some gameplay vids of it on the net.


----------



## UncannyBruceman (Jul 25, 2008)

mossystate said:


> I just don't want young kids playing this thing. Same goes for probably a majority of vid games. One day, girls/women won't be portrayed as needing...rescuing. Weird how making fat part of the equation automatically makes it positive...hmmm.



Actually, if you were paying attention to the responses the game has gotten here, you'll find that the reviews are somewhat mixed. While I find it positive that ANY video game contains a fat girl character, I'm not entirely pleased with the conditions we're faced with. I'm intrigued to see more, just because it's unique compared to its peers, so I'll probably download it.

As for the damsels in distress...Tomb Raider, Heavenly Sword, Resident Evil 3 and Resident Evil: Code Veronica X, and Blood Rayne are just four of many popular titles in which heroic women are slaughtering monsters and men, which I'm sure that you of all people will thoroughly enjoy. The damsel in distress story has been and continues to be done to death in films and video games...does this mean that you're boycotting action films on top of this game? Sounds to me like you just want something else to complain about.

Also don't forget that the video game industry runs on testosterone and the target market is primarily male. Fat Princess is a major break from the status quo and had a female concept artist. Complain about that.


----------



## Waxwing (Jul 25, 2008)

UncannyBruceman said:


> As for the damsels in distress...Tomb Raider, Heavenly Sword, Resident Evil 3 and Resident Evil: Code Veronica X, and Blood Rayne are just four of many popular titles in which heroic women are slaughtering monsters and men, which I'm sure that you of all people will thoroughly enjoy. .



Not to mention that the designer of Heavenly Sword's main character, Nariko, is a woman herself.


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 25, 2008)

Yeah, mossy. Just shut up. OK?

Let the men talkity-talk. They have Important Things to say, mostly about their own levels of testosterone. Learn to be seen and not heard, madam! And pay attention! Especially when you're being told to shut up.

I'll tell you, I just don't know when women will learn their place. Especially the ones that are just out to grind some axe against men.


----------



## disconnectedsmile (Jul 25, 2008)

UncannyBruceman said:


> Also don't forget that the video game industry runs on testosterone and the target market is primarily male. Fat Princess is a major break from the status quo and had a female concept artist. Complain about that.


well said.
frankly, i don't get the big deal. it's a cartoony game, and i think, in the modern age, it's hard to take the "girls are helpless" thing seriously. but that's just me.
i think, as a whole, the gaming industry is misunderstood. if this content was to be seen on a saturday morning cartoon, people wouldn't think twice about it. (and we might see a discussion or two about its merits on the weight board here. )
every game is controversial, isn't it?
Mortal Kombat has too much blood. Call of Duty is too violent. Mass Effect has too much nudity. Lara Croft is too unrealistic.
video games are just an entertainment medium, nothing more, nothing less. just like movies, just like books, etc.

i say, take the games for what they are at face value.


----------



## mossystate (Jul 25, 2008)

UncannyBruceman said:


> Actually, if you were paying attention to the responses the game has gotten here, you'll find that the reviews are somewhat mixed. While I find it positive that ANY video game contains a fat girl character, I'm not entirely pleased with the conditions we're faced with. I'm intrigued to see more, just because it's unique compared to its peers, so I'll probably download it.
> 
> As for the damsels in distress...Tomb Raider, Heavenly Sword, Resident Evil 3 and Resident Evil: Code Veronica X, and Blood Rayne are just four of many popular titles in which heroic women are slaughtering monsters and men, which I'm sure that you of all people will thoroughly enjoy. The damsel in distress story has been and continues to be done to death in films and video games...does this mean that you're boycotting action films on top of this game? Sounds to me like you just want something else to complain about.
> 
> Also don't forget that the video game industry runs on testosterone and the target market is primarily male. Fat Princess is a major break from the status quo and had a female concept artist. Complain about that.



Like the attention you were paying to the obvious sarcasm from the woman you said had major problems and had obviously never poked her head into the door at Dims......ok.

I realize I should do as Fasc has said and leave the complaining..errr..the potent discussion to guys like you....but....I think I will be ok with myself saying whatever the f*** I want to say.

You see positive wherever there is fat...which..to me....to meeeeee...is pretty ridiculous. Having a fat character is not always a good thing, if it drags with it a bunch of other garbage.

Some woman doing a shopworn tap dance is not exactly something I will get behind. She has every right to do the dance...I just will not be on the sidelines clapping......see?...a complaint. You are so wrapped up in the fat vs thin and male vs female, that you are projecting. I do not see any great dismantling being done just because some designer is a woman....oy. You use the same game pieces, ya gets the same results.

Oh, and, I am not ' boycotting ' anything, as I do not play video games. I am, however, a citizen of this earth, so I will voice my opinion.

Damn..there I go...not shutting up when told to zip it.


----------



## Tooz (Jul 25, 2008)

I am surprised that there are so many offended people regarding this game. I found it to be relatively harmless.


----------



## Wagimawr (Jul 25, 2008)

Apparently it's true: if you're not offended, you're not paying attention.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 25, 2008)

I wish we knew more about the designer....in some ways...she almost seems like a feminist herself from what I have read of the game....as in she is MOCKING the traditional paradigm of women. You know..."princess" as in she's the pampered head bitch in charge.... "all women on diets and eating disorders" "women shouldn't eat"....the "princess" says fuck that and eats what she wants.

She designed a princess...one that eats what the hell she wants and has a bunch of idiots trying to rescue her aka pander to her...... doesn't sound so bad to me   :bow:


----------



## mossystate (Jul 25, 2008)

Oooooo...a chance to yell at Greenie...and boycott her........


I will take you behind the woodshed!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 25, 2008)

Nah.... just toss me some cake...I will have one of my boys go fetch it


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 26, 2008)

mossystate said:


> Oooooo...a chance to yell at Greenie...and boycott her........
> 
> 
> I will take you behind the woodshed!



Spank her! Give it to her!

:happy:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 26, 2008)

OooOoOooO now we're talking....let's take it to PM..... :batting: :wubu:


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 26, 2008)

lol @ "Grease Be Gone"


----------



## thatgirl08 (Jul 26, 2008)

I don't really get why this is even controversial. I think the game seems cute, not offensive.


----------



## FaxMachine1234 (Jul 26, 2008)

I like how one of them said that they should change the game so that you weigh down a treasure chest instead, so it doesn't "offend anyone". Wow, great way to both act as a censor for what other people can play and drain all the character out of the game as well! Brilliant!

Lord, save the feminist movement from the feminists.


----------



## mossystate (Jul 26, 2008)

Ekim said:


> I like how one of them said that they should change the game so that you weigh down a treasure chest instead, so it doesn't "offend anyone". Wow, great way to both act as a censor for what other people can play and drain all the character out of the game as well! Brilliant!
> 
> Lord, save the feminist movement from the feminists.



hmmmm, ' should change ' sounds like a suggestion....kinda like when people talk about a billion other things and voice concern...opinions......suggestions. I guess I am not seeing the rampant censoring, concerning this trailblazing game.

I _am_ glad that you are truly concerned about the ' feminist movement '. Perhaps the ' feminist movement ' could use your........suggestions...as it seems like you see the real issues.


----------



## UncannyBruceman (Jul 26, 2008)

mossystate said:


> You see positive wherever there is fat...which..to me....to meeeeee...is pretty ridiculous. Having a fat character is not always a good thing, if it drags with it a bunch of other garbage.



And you see something that isn't there, because what you say here basically reflects my views of this game. Read the post first.

And to meeeeeeee, your feminism rant seems pretty ridiculous on top of it all. I got some sad news for you..._Erin Brockovich: The Video Game_ will probably not be a popular title. Video games aren't cheap, and players will want a little bang for their buck. Further, the industry has been targeted males between 12-30 for the the past 30 years, and I don't see any of that making any radical changes any time soon.

So ya get what ya get.


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 26, 2008)

Ekim said:


> Lord, save the feminist movement from the feminists.



I got your Lord right here. 































(Seriously, I do. I'm wearing a little wooden cross on a necklace.)


----------



## Jack Skellington (Jul 26, 2008)

olwen said:


> Aren't most video games misogynist in some way?



No, generally they are about shooting stuff and watching it blow up real good. Like you'll be playing a sweet FPS and there are conveniently placed explosive barrels all over the place so when you shoot them you can take out a whole mess of enemies all at once. Damn, I love them barrels.


----------



## Samurai (Jul 26, 2008)

olwen said:


> Aren't most video games misogynist in some way? That doesn't seem to be the part the is causing the controversy. If it were there are loads of games to choose from.
> 
> If I were into gaming, I'd play this game just to see what happens _after _he rescues the princess. Would there be a little movie?



In what way are you referring that most games are misogynist? That women are put in stereotypical situations/looks/attitudes? Or that games usually have a male lead?


----------



## Samurai (Jul 26, 2008)

I think there's still too little info to bash or not bash the game yet. A few games that have larger characters have actually put them in a good light, whether they are fat, tall, or extremely muscular, rather than bumbling idiots that barely know how to speak properly. So I'll wait and see if they're putting the princess in a negative light with the fat portion of it, but as a female being rescued, thats been done one too many times as someone else commented earlier on.


----------



## Jack Skellington (Jul 26, 2008)

Waxwing said:


> They used to be, but I've noticed a really fantastic trend of stronger, more badass female characters in video games.



Samus was trailblazer in that respect. 

When Metroid was first released in the US in 1987 I think it was bit of shock to some people when they found out they had been playing as a woman the entire game. On a bit of a side note Super Metroid is my favorite SNES game of all time. I played that game to death.


----------



## olwen (Jul 26, 2008)

Samurai said:


> In what way are you referring that most games are misogynist?* That women are put in stereotypical situations/looks/attitudes?* Or that games usually have a male lead?



It's that. When there are female characters they have clearly been designed with a heterosexual male in mind. For example, I've played Lara Croft a couple of times and the way she looked distracted me from completing the tasks. Somehow the fact that she can shoot a gun or hold a knife or so wicked jumps sort of added to the male fantasy. In general the female characters look unrealistic. Sure the male characters can also look unrealistic, but there are more average looking male characters than female characters. One of these karaoke games - I've played so many I can't remember anymore which on it is - has a whole host of female characters and I get frustrated trying to put together an avatar that looks even remotely like me and I'm not just talking about weight or race or the quality of the images either. The characters just don't look realistic to me. Seems a bit misogynistic to me.


----------



## olwen (Jul 26, 2008)

Jack Skellington said:


> No, generally they are about shooting stuff and watching it blow up real good. Like you'll be playing a sweet FPS and there are conveniently placed explosive barrels all over the place so when you shoot them you can take out a whole mess of enemies all at once. Damn, I love them barrels.



Oh right, I forgot about the violence. I haven't played a shoot em up game in a long time.


----------



## mossystate (Jul 26, 2008)

UncannyBruceman said:


> And you see something that isn't there, because what you say here basically reflects my views of this game. Read the post first.
> 
> And to meeeeeeee, your feminism rant seems pretty ridiculous on top of it all. I got some sad news for you..._Erin Brockovich: The Video Game_ will probably not be a popular title. Video games aren't cheap, and players will want a little bang for their buck. Further, the industry has been targeted males between 12-30 for the the past 30 years, and I don't see any of that making any radical changes any time soon.
> 
> So ya get what ya get.




And this society is basically pro thin...anti fat....sooooooo..when you complain about the lack of hot, fat women in the media..remember your stance on things male and female, and tell yourself........I got what I got and that's life...that's the way it goes ....and I need to stop complaining and stop the fat rants. Right?...ok...cool.

yay


----------



## olwen (Jul 26, 2008)

Waxwing said:


> They used to be, but I've noticed a really fantastic trend of stronger, more badass female characters in video games. This coincides with more female designers getting into the business. It's really heartening.



I get that. When Xena came out (yeah it's been that long since I owned my own game console) I was so exited. Same about Lara Croft. Since I gravitated towards fighting games back then, I always played the female characters in Mortal Combat, Street Fighter, Tekken, Battle Arena Toshinden, ect but I hated the way those characters looked and their powers weren't always as awesome as the male characters. 

Honestly I haven't played a violent game in a while, but I have to wonder if these characters are badass in a way that the women who play them would want to be badass or badass in a male fantasy sort of way. Here I'm thinking of film equivalents like Pam Grier, Mila Jovovich, or Anjelina Jolie....I just have to wonder - and have wondered - about how female strength is internalized and then displayed. Does it happen in a way that women can actually use or is it just some condescending male fantasy - Yeah, we'll let you kick ass but only if you look a certain way and you aren't a lesbian and oh yeah, just remember, I'm letting you win...


----------



## BothGunsBlazing (Jul 26, 2008)

Jack Skellington said:


> Samus was trailblazer in that respect.
> 
> When Metroid was first released in the US in 1987 I think it was bit of shock to some people when they found out they had been playing as a woman the entire game. On a bit of a side note Super Metroid is my favorite SNES game of all time. I played that game to death.



Yeah, I definitely saw a parallel between Samus and Ripley from the Alien movies which came out just before it was released. I am sure that was somewhat of an inspiration.

I also like how Zelda has become a much stronger character in those games.


----------



## IrishBard (Jul 26, 2008)

mossystate said:


> so, you won't be upset about anything on this earth....if there is something ' more horrible ' out there ( and..way to go for not seeing the finer points here ).....ok...now, I am holding you to that...and I will be watching..



I quickly want to validate my statement before there is any agreement made:

Firstly, I do get upset at some stuff in Videogames, but alot of things in Videogames which are so called "Controversial" I gloss over, because as long as it drives the story and makes a valid point, then I don't mind. The only time I get upset in this form of media is were the events is written so well and it tugs on the heartstrings so well, I get upset, like when your entire squad was wiped out by the bomb at the end of COD4, or when Issun is forced to leave Amateratsu as she continues the adventure in Okami. It's the same with other forms of media, an example is in Manga comics (sorry to draw this in, but its the only example i can think of)

Naruto: Sasuke families death seen- to me, it just seemed a hugely overblown moment which made me dislike the character even more because he behaved like such a dick afterwards. 

One piece: Robin's Plea for life before her execution- a similar think happened to Robin, but she remembered, before she was about to be killed what she needed to do, and the huge build-up and the fact that her friends were willing to show such a commitment to save her, even though she had betrayed them and almost killed them, actually brought a lump to my throat. 

Secondly, I can also get upset with bad Game controls and frustrating bits. If a game is executed poorly, then I get as angry as The Hulk after seeing how badly his game was made, because it is treating the customer like turds in a barrel. Most of the time, I give up on bad controls, but when the story is good, I soldier on, despite the amount of times I've almost hurled the consoles out of the window.


----------



## Samurai (Jul 26, 2008)

olwen said:


> It's that. When there are female characters they have clearly been designed with a heterosexual male in mind. For example, I've played Lara Croft a couple of times and the way she looked distracted me from completing the tasks. Somehow the fact that she can shoot a gun or hold a knife or so wicked jumps sort of added to the male fantasy. In general the female characters look unrealistic. Sure the male characters can also look unrealistic, but there are more average looking male characters than female characters. One of these karaoke games - I've played so many I can't remember anymore which on it is - has a whole host of female characters and I get frustrated trying to put together an avatar that looks even remotely like me and I'm not just talking about weight or race or the quality of the images either. The characters just don't look realistic to me. Seems a bit misogynistic to me.



I actually haven't gotten into Tomb Raider much, so I don't know much about the storyline, whether she was in the military or is just some regular treasure hunter, but I never got into it before because I felt back then it was more of a "sex sells" kind of thing. I was able to see the significance in the actual game later on as I grew up, but I get at what you're saying now, thanks.


----------



## Santaclear (Jul 26, 2008)

I have never played a video game, so I prefer to get upset about threads about video games rather than the actual games.


----------



## disconnectedsmile (Jul 26, 2008)

Santaclear said:


> I have never played a video game, so I prefer to get upset about threads about video games rather than the actual games.


and yet you have your face imposed onto CATS?
SOMEONE SET ME UP THE CONFUSION


----------



## gangstadawg (Jul 26, 2008)

UncannyBruceman said:


> And you see something that isn't there, because what you say here basically reflects my views of this game. Read the post first.
> 
> And to meeeeeeee, your feminism rant seems pretty ridiculous on top of it all. I got some sad news for you..._Erin Brockovich: The Video Game_ will probably not be a popular title. Video games aren't cheap, and players will want a little bang for their buck. Further, the industry has been targeted males between 12-30 for the the past 30 years, and I don't see any of that making any radical changes any time soon.
> 
> So ya get what ya get.


but nintendo i will admit has been targeting everbody with the WII and DS. there are more female gamers now then ever befopre but japan has a higher number of female gamers than the U.S. due to more genres there.


----------



## Surlysomething (Jul 26, 2008)

mossystate said:


> You see positive wherever there is fat...which..to me....to meeeeee...is pretty ridiculous. Having a fat character is not always a good thing, if it drags with it a bunch of other garbage.


 
must spread rep around and all that
:bow:


----------



## Jack Skellington (Jul 26, 2008)

olwen said:


> Oh right, I forgot about the violence.



You say it like it's a bad thing.


----------



## Tychondarova (Jul 26, 2008)

*Sigh*

You know, when I first saw this game, there was a little voice in the back of my head that thought, for a bizarre abstact moment, that this sort of game could actually break a lot of stereoptypes, possibly illiciting a positive reaction from critics on the feminist front.

Man, I must have smoked a shoebox full of blow to even believe that for a moment.

First they were being rescued, and they hated that. Then they became heroes, and they hated that. First they were ridiculously thin, and they hated that. Now we've portrayed them as fat, and they hate that. I now firmly believe that feminists will not applaud a female character in a game unless she is castrating men to complete missions, beating their faces into the ground with bulging sacks of money to score bonus points, and standing atop a mounted pile of their downtrodden bodies, roaring in the credits.

The worst part of it is that these two women, who appear to be nothing more than jaded misanthropes beating their wardrum and looking for the next imaginary controversy, are actually hindering the quest for equality that many women fight legitimately for each day. This is the unfortunate backlash of our politically correct time though. If a man were fattened up in this game instead of a woman, and he went spouting worthless drivel like these women have, he'd be thrown away, keys and all. But in our modern society, it is perfectly rational for a woman to be allowed to do this, irregardless of how her efforts make a mockery of the legitimate fight for equality among all people.

I, as a man, firmly believe in equality, and also firmly believe that any woman who genuinely wants to make a difference in the greater struggle for equality should tape these womens' mouths shut before they can make your fight any more of a joke.

-Ty


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 26, 2008)

Tychondarova said:


> First they were being rescued, and they hated that. Then they became heroes, and they hated that. First they were ridiculously thin, and they hated that. Now we've portrayed them as fat, and they hate that. I now firmly believe that *feminists will not applaud a female character in a game unless she is castrating men to complete missions, beating their faces into the ground with bulging sacks of money to score bonus points, and standing atop a mounted pile of their downtrodden bodies, roaring in the credits.*




You said all that like it was a bad thing...... 


Would you like a piece of cake?


----------



## mossystate (Jul 26, 2008)

Uppity is a word that is so on the tip of so many tongues. If it were not so tired, it would be good for a teehee...a guffaw...and a whooped-di-doodeedooo.

I wonder how big a cherry a castrating feminist would need for that pile of bodies. Things that make you go...grrrrrr.

It is interesting that any...any...commenting on such thing is seen as man hating. Fasc had it right......shhhhhhhhhhhhh. Thing is?...I am less than a month from turning 46...I no longer feel a need or a desire to squash a valid point I want to make...just because it will be twisted and dismissed....and _I_ will be labeled. Life really is too short to forever be tap dancing. Now, off to sharpen my scissors and rehearse my cackle.

greenie...more cake....please


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 26, 2008)

May I feed it to you Monique....and can others watch?


----------



## mossystate (Jul 26, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> May I feed it to you Monique....and can others watch?



That frosting looks a lil gummy...work on that.

But...yes...yes....be sure to charge admission...you can make change with one of those coin dispenser thingies one would wear on a belt........i always wanted one of those....as I am being fed, I want to hear you make change.......god......hot.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 26, 2008)

CHA- CHING!! with a cherry on top..... 







My coin dispenser is very big...... :batting:


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 26, 2008)

Tychondarova said:


> *Sigh*
> 
> First they were being rescued, and they hated that. Then they became heroes, and they hated that. First they were ridiculously thin, and they hated that. Now we've portrayed them as fat, and they hate that. I now firmly believe that feminists will not applaud a female character in a game unless she is castrating men to complete missions, beating their faces into the ground with bulging sacks of money to score bonus points, and standing atop a mounted pile of their downtrodden bodies, roaring in the credits.



See, this is part of the problem. You think that, no matter what they're doing, women must be doing something that centers around men--if we're not getting you off or serving you food or raising your kids, then the only other role you envision for us is that of "castrator of men."

You think we need you to depict us this way or that. And what you don't understand is that *all that is required of you* is that you get it through your head that as a woman, I will say what want, wear what want, celebrate who and what I want, complain against who and what I want, kiss who I want, eat what I want, fart when I want, trim my hair when and if I want, do my nails anyway I want (or not), drink what I want, when I want, how I want, and on and on and on. 

I don't need your permission to think, to speak, to eat, to run, to play, to get up in the morning or go to the bed at night. And no matter how much _you_ sigh and complain and moan about how much I complain and sigh and moan, it's not going to change the fact that I WILL DO AS I WANT AND SAY WHAT I WANT, WHEN I WANT--within the limits of the law, of course, hehe--AND THAT IT'S NOT FOR YOU TO DECIDE WHEN, or HOW, or WHAT, or WHY I do what I do. So you may as well get used to it. 

I hope that clarifies things a little for you. Oh, and, gee you... you sure know how to moan and sigh real sad-like. Let me play a little sad violin music to make you feel a little better.



> I, as a man, firmly believe in equality, and also firmly believe that any woman who genuinely wants to make a difference in the greater struggle for equality should tape these womens' mouths shut before they can make your fight any more of a joke.
> 
> -Ty




Oh, yes, well, I doubt very much that you're "pro-equality" given the pyschotic tendencies the latter half of that paragraph exhibits. 

So you want us to believe that you believe in equality, but only so long as the people whose views you don't agree with are forced into silence? Interesting.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 26, 2008)

I have the biggest coin dispenser in this thread........


----------



## Jack Skellington (Jul 27, 2008)

Tychondarova said:


> I now firmly believe that feminists will not applaud a female character in a game unless she is castrating men to complete missions, beating their faces into the ground with bulging sacks of money to score bonus points, and standing atop a mounted pile of their downtrodden bodies, roaring in the credits.



You obviously have some real issues there. 

Anyhoo, I'm personally not offended by the game. I just think it's stupid and don't want to play it. I also think Wii Music and Wii Fit are stupid and don't want to play them either. I hate crap games and shovelware as a rule.


----------



## CleverBomb (Jul 27, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I have the biggest coin dispenser in this thread........


It's dangerous out there. Take this.





-Rusty


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 27, 2008)

Oh my Rusty...what big coin dispenser you have there....you must be after my piece....of cake :batting:


----------



## CleverBomb (Jul 27, 2008)

I torte you'd like it. 
You, no doubt, are a fine piece... of cake. 
Quite tasty indeed.

-Rusty


----------



## Tychondarova (Jul 27, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You said all that like it was a bad thing......
> 
> 
> Would you like a piece of cake?



Yes I most certainly would. I personally think Fat Prince would be a great sequel.

I'm glad you at least say the humor in this. Consequently, I think a game with roaring women and whatnot might be interesting.



Fascinita said:


> See, this is part of the problem. You think that, no matter what they're doing, women must be doing something that centers around men--if we're not getting you off or serving you food or raising your kids, then the only other role you envision for us is that of "castrator of men."



Ugh, somehow I knew I wouldn't be able to handle such a delicate issue with the tact required not to stir things up here and completely squew my point... As for the whole standing on the piles of men thing, that was an exagegration meant to make a point about how hard feminists are to please. It had nothing to do with roles, or women in power, or anything like that. I attempting to be hyberbolic. 

In fact, I don't think I said anything about raising kids or making food.... I would hope you're not projecting through my post.



Fascinita said:


> You think we need you to depict us this way or that. And what you don't understand is that *all that is required of you* is that you get it through your head that as a woman, I will say what want, wear what want, celebrate who and what I want, complain against who and what I want, kiss who I want, eat what I want, fart when I want, trim my hair when and if I want, do my nails anyway I want (or not), drink what I want, when I want, how I want, and on and on and on... I don't need your permission to think, to speak, to eat, to run, to play, to get up in the morning or go to the bed at night. And no matter how much _you_ sigh and complain and moan about how much I complain and sigh and moan, it's not going to change the fact that I WILL DO AS I WANT AND SAY WHAT I WANT, WHEN I WANT--within the limits of the law, of course, hehe--AND THAT IT'S NOT FOR YOU TO DECIDE WHEN, or HOW, or WHAT, or WHY I do what I do. So you may as well get used to it.



Okay, first off SLOOOOOOW DOWN Fascinata. I think you've gotten hung up on a piece of diction and gone completely the other way with what I meant to say. First of all, when I said, "we've depicted" you in a certain way, keep in mind that A) Men are mainly the ones who design games, and B) I am a game designer. I meant no offense by this, I simply used less than precise diction. In fact... I mean, I don't think I said anything to the effect of limiting what you can and can't do. I have no wish to impugn upon your right to do whatever the hell you what, nor would I to anyone.

You're being really argumenative. Get it through my head? Get used to it? I have it through my head, you insane person. I am used to it. I have no wish to decide for anyone but myself what or when I do something. I never said anything like that in my post. I understand you clearly have some resentment about gender issues, but I don't know why you're taking this out on me...



Fascinita said:


> I hope that clarifies things a little for you. Oh, and, gee you... you sure know how to moan and sigh real sad-like. Let me play a little sad violin music to make you feel a little better.



Sad? More dissapointed. Irrationality disheartens me. I don't know why you're making a point of tearing me down about that, but whatever, it seems at this point I have become the unwitting target of a lot of pent up aggression, so I'll just ride it out since this post is almost over.

If its all the same to you, you may keep your violin music, thanks.



Fascinita said:


> Oh, yes, well, I doubt very much that you're "pro-equality" given the pyschotic tendencies the latter half of that paragraph exhibits.
> 
> So you want us to believe that you believe in equality, but only so long as the people whose views you don't agree with are forced into silence? Interesting.



Psychotic? Seems a bit harsh, but then again, this whole post has been, especially for someone who wants to see more women in the workplace, earning more, and accomplishing things, etc. And as for forcing them into silence.... I know if I were in your position, I would be first in line to shut them up before they makes the rest of you look bad. But clearly that's not your opinion, so whatever.

You know, all in all this really just proves my point. I am someone who has always wanted equality, always thought women deserve everything a man has, and you've attacked and ridiculed me. What saddens me most is that you can't see that. But it is not a big deal, I've faced this kind of hate before, and I've never stopped promoting equal rights. Fortunately I am understanding.

However, the one thing I do not tolerate is extremism of any kind, whether it be racial, sexist, or religious.





Jack Skellington said:


> You obviously have some real issues there.



And what issues might those be, Jack? Perhaps you might want to take a pot-shot since everyone else seems ready to.

This is why I hate the internet. You all have ganged up on a guy who's on your side because I apparently couldn't make myself clear.

-Ty


----------



## gangstadawg (Jul 27, 2008)

disconnectedsmile said:


> and yet you have your face imposed onto CATS?
> SOMEONE SET ME UP THE CONFUSION


i though his character name was spelled KATS i could be wrong. and to quote the games bad english translation.

"all your base belong to us"


----------



## gangstadawg (Jul 27, 2008)

Tychondarova said:


> *Sigh*
> 
> You know, when I first saw this game, there was a little voice in the back of my head that thought, for a bizarre abstact moment, that this sort of game could actually break a lot of stereoptypes, possibly illiciting a positive reaction from critics on the feminist front.
> 
> ...


you mean in our society its perfectly rational for a woman to be irrational. just kidding


----------



## Jack Skellington (Jul 27, 2008)

Tychondarova said:


> And what issues might those be, Jack? Perhaps you might want to take a pot-shot since everyone else seems ready to.
> 
> This is why I hate the internet. You all have ganged up on a guy who's on your side because I apparently couldn't make myself clear.



The first pot shots were yours so don't even bother playing the victim, it doesn't work on me.


----------



## Santaclear (Jul 27, 2008)

disconnectedsmile said:


> and yet you have your face imposed onto CATS?
> SOMEONE SET ME UP THE CONFUSION



No understando CATS. 

Que?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 27, 2008)

Tychondarova said:


> Yes I most certainly would. I personally think Fat Prince would be a great sequel.
> 
> I'm glad you at least say the humor in this. Consequently, I think a game with roaring women and whatnot might be interesting.


Can I feed him cake? 

Anyhoo, there was a game with a "roaring woman"...it's called Mortal Kombat 3 and the character was Sindel. One of her personal weapons was a piercing scream that would render her opponent helpless for a short bit.
She also could sling her long hair and it pick up her opponent and toss them about.
God I loved that bitch....I played her every chance I could 


It's also ironic to me that you say the feminists need their mouths taped shut for simply expressing an opinion......yet when I make light of it all, you seem bothered again. I mean are we to take the game serious or not? I thought this was about the game and not "feminists that all need to stfu". 
You should really rethink some of your own histrionics in your original post. You really think women want to beat you up or something? Why are you so scared of women......oh and the words of two women don't automatically speak for us all. 
That would be like me saying that 100% men are assholes....when I know it's probably more like a slightly smaller percentage that are


----------



## CleverBomb (Jul 27, 2008)

Santaclear said:


> No understando CATS.
> 
> Que?


It's not CATSurday, but here's the reference. Apparently Disconnected confused the Borg meme with the AYB meme. 





-Rusty
(for great justice)


----------



## Tychondarova (Jul 27, 2008)

gangstadawg said:


> you mean in our society its perfectly rational for a woman to be irrational. just kidding



Lol, I'm not touching that one



Jack Skellington said:


> The first pot shots were yours so don't even bother playing the victim, it doesn't work on me.



Oh can it Jack. You clearly mistook what I meant in the first place and have already labeled me as the villain, so just leave me alone, because you're not going to listen to anything I have to say anyway.



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Can I feed him cake?



I assume that would be the point. Can I be the prince?



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Anyhoo, there was a game with a "roaring woman"...it's called Mortal Kombat 3 and the character was Sindel. One of her personal weapons was a piercing scream that would render her opponent helpless for a short bit.
> She also could sling her long hair and it pick up her opponent and toss them about.
> God I loved that bitch....I played her every chance I could



Yeah, I remember that back from the good old days. I always liked either Sindel or Sub-Zero. Man, they don't make Mortal Kombat like they used to...



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> It's also ironic to me that you say the feminists need their mouths taped shut for simply expressing an opinion......yet when I make light of it all, you seem bothered again. I mean are we to take the game serious or not? I thought this was about the game and not "feminists that all need to stfu".



I appreciate you taking light of it, since clearly you're the only one who hasn't misconstrued my meaning. If I seem agitated, I guarentee its not your doing Green Eyes



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You should really rethink some of your own histrionics in your original post. You really think women want to beat you up or something? Why are you so scared of women......



No, I don't think women want to beat me up. I was being hyperbolic because I'm pretty sure that feminists want to beat me up. At any rate, it was meant to be an over-the-top image meant to illustrate how hard feminists are to please with female video game characters.

And no, I'm not scared of women. In fact, I have grown quite fond of them



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> oh and the words of two women don't automatically speak for us all.
> That would be like me saying that 100% men are assholes....when I know it's probably more like a slightly smaller percentage that are



Exactly, the words of two women don't speak for all of you... but when they talk so much louder and cause so much controvsery, the words of the other women are eclipsed.

Its like with Muslims. Are all Muslims terrorists who blow up women and children? No, of course not. But because the few who do cause so much uproar, we seem to forget about the majority of Muslims who are good people.

My point is, if I was a Muslim, I would want the terrorists to stop, because it demonizes our whole culture. Like how a few irrational feminists can make all the good women of the world seem like crazy people.

-Ty


----------



## Jack Skellington (Jul 27, 2008)

Tychondarova said:


> Oh can it Jack. You clearly mistook what I meant in the first place and have already labeled me as the villain, so just leave me alone, because you're not going to listen to anything I have to say anyway.



You are cowardly still trying to play the victim here with that villain bullshit. You went on a vitriol filled rant stereotyping and bashing Feminists there is no mistaking that. Your disclaimer at the end that you are supposedly for women's rights isn't fooling anyone. 

BTW: If you want me to leave you alone fine, then don't try to call me out with this cowardly passive aggressive bullshit because I am not on the mood.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 27, 2008)

Tychondarova said:


> Its like with Muslims. Are all Muslims terrorists who blow up women and children? No, of course not. But because the few who do cause so much uproar, we seem to forget about the majority of Muslims who are good people.
> 
> My point is, if I was a Muslim, I would want the terrorists to stop, because it demonizes our whole culture. Like how a few irrational feminists can make all the good women of the world seem like crazy people.
> 
> -Ty




You know I can see your point here again except....I don't perceive a feminist blog (a blog is understood to be someone's opinion only, btw) on the same tier as terrorist bombings......
It's not something I'm going to get upset about ..... those women were simply expressing their opinions....and that no way causes the same type of damage as a suicide bomber. Once again, I saw your post as being a bit over the top and overly dramatic (like your muslim analogy is) because I would rather protect the right to free speech for EVERYONE rather than tape their mouths shut. 
Feminists are not villians...matter of fact, some of them have helped to change the world in a very positive way for some of us ladies. Nah....let them talk  They are not doing all the massive damage you are asserting they do.


----------



## wrestlingguy (Jul 27, 2008)

I wonder if the digression would have taken place if the orignal post was placed on another board.

Maybe I'm a big old dummy, but I can't connect the dots that brought the thread to where it is now. I'm also not sure that I want to.

I'm also looking in amazement as another thread that I read right before this is from a newbie who is looking for acceptance & perhaps a bit of support here, and then gets to read THIS thread. I wonder what's going through their minds??


----------



## Tychondarova (Jul 27, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You know I can see your point here again except....I don't perceive a feminist blog (a blog is understood to be someone's opinion only, btw) on the same tier as terrorist bombings......
> It's not something I'm going to get upset about ..... those women were simply expressing their opinions....and that no way causes the same type of damage as a suicide bomber. Once again, I saw your post as being a bit over the top and overly dramatic (like your muslim analogy is) because I would rather protect the right to free speech for EVERYONE rather than tape their mouths shut.
> Feminists are not villians...matter of fact, some of them have helped to change the world in a very positive way for some of us ladies. Nah....let them talk  They are not doing all the massive damage you are asserting they do.



True, feminists have done so much good in the world. Obviously. I mean, suffragists, etc, have all given immense sacrifices to bring equality to a group of people that were oppressed for ages. I am not disputing this. They're heroes in their own right, who fought or something good.

However, I do feel that these particular women are not doing good for your gender. I feel its somewhat the opposite. In fact, I feel that nowadays feminists sometimes go too far on certain issues, and are not so much fighting for equality anymore as fighting for female dominance. 

I once heard it put best by a feminist friend of mine who said, "We want equal rights, but we all know women are better."

To me, that's not real equality, and I think large portions of the feminist movement nowadays have taken this route, distancing themselves from the originally admirable work of the feminists of the past.

As for the analogy, my point is that it smacks of extremism, and I feel that extremism of any kind, casts a negative light on the mainstream of the group they represent. Like how right wing nutjobs make regular Republicans look bad, etc. Perhaps that would be a better analogy?

And never underestimate the value of opinions. Opinions are the sparks that ignite fires, for good or ill.

And Jack, whatever man. I know what I believe and I know whose side I'm on, and I don't have to explain myself to you.

-Ty

P.S. Wrestling Guy, I have to agree, its kind of strange how it got to this ponit. I have had this same discussion on multiple other boards, and it never has ended up as hostile as this.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 27, 2008)

Tychondarova said:


> However, I do feel that these particular women are not doing good for your gender. I feel its somewhat the opposite. In fact, I feel that nowadays feminists sometimes go too far on certain issues, and are not so much fighting for equality anymore as fighting for female dominance.



I have to go back to one of my original points though.....they don't speak for or represent all women. Just like any guy that I date that decides to drink too much and beat me up doesn't represent how you might be out on a date. 
Should I tell you that you shouldn't date anymore because of what some other guy did?
It's too all-encompassing to say that they "hurt my gender"......there are many jerky men in the world but I have to keep my head in the right spot and also remember the guys that I have met that do a lot of good things. People are people...some good some bad and mass blanketing in our attitudes is more harmful than anything those two might have said....



Tychondarova said:


> I once heard it put best by a feminist friend of mine who said, "We want equal rights, but we all know women are better."
> 
> To me, that's not real equality, and I think large portions of the feminist movement nowadays have taken this route, distancing themselves from the originally admirable work of the feminists of the past.



Of course that's not equality...but it also sounds like something said tongue in cheek....kind of like my first post to you. Lighten up....and I have to think that if she REALLY felt that way, that she probably wouldn't have said it so openly and quickly. 

But once again, even if she was serious, how is one individual representative of the whole feminist movement? 
One asshole man doesn't mean all guys are assholes...you can see that side of it, right?



Tychondarova said:


> As for the analogy, my point is that it smacks of extremism, and I feel that extremism of any kind, casts a negative light on the mainstream of the group they represent. Like how right wing nutjobs make regular Republicans look bad, etc. Perhaps that would be a better analogy?
> 
> And never underestimate the value of opinions. Opinions are the sparks that ignite fires, for good or ill.



I do understand you.....just don't concur mainly because it goes beyond what some people "represent"....... we cannot control the thought processes of everyone around us....nor can we control their words or deeds. All we have control over is ourselves.....and allowing our minds to jump to immediate conclusions over a whole sect of people because we saw a couple we don't agree with is erroneous thinking on our own part. THAT is something we can change and control....not the actions of others


----------



## Tychondarova (Jul 27, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I have to go back to one of my original points though.....they don't speak for or represent all women. Just like any guy that I date that decides to drink too much and beat me up doesn't represent how you might be out on a date.
> Should I tell you that you shouldn't date anymore because of what some other guy did?



No, but if I met that guy I'd tell him to stop drinking and beating up women, not only because its wrong, but because it makes the rest of us guys look bad. And yes, those feminists don't speak for and represent all women, but in the eyes of the masses, they do. My point is that because they stir up controversy it creates a skewed view of the percentage of women who think like they do.



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> It's too all-encompassing to say that they "hurt my gender"......there are many jerky men in the world but I have to keep my head in the right spot and also remember the guys that I have met that do a lot of good things. People are people...some good some bad and mass blanketing in our attitudes is more harmful than anything those two might have said....



That's certainly a realistic point, and I agree with it. For myself, I have known many feminists who I felt have been extreme about their views, but I don't let that tarnish my opinion of the gender. However (as I am sure you know), there are many out there who don't take a person-by-person look at things like we do.



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Of course that's not equality...but it also sounds like something said tongue in cheek....kind of like my first post to you. Lighten up....and I have to think that if she REALLY felt that way, that she probably wouldn't have said it so openly and quickly.



Ha, if only you knew her.... She says it so openly as quickly because she genuinely believes it.



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> But once again, even if she was serious, how is one individual representative of the whole feminist movement?
> One asshole man doesn't mean all guys are assholes...you can see that side of it, right?



And naturally, her words, nor even the words of a few, don't speak for the entire group (even if they might sometimes appear to). Its just that all the self-proclaimed "feminists" I have ever known have been combative and shared this sentiment of superiority. As my ex-girlfriend used to say, "no vagina, no opinion."



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I do understand you.....just don't concur mainly because it goes beyond what some people "represent"....... we cannot control the thought processes of everyone around us....nor can we control their words or deeds. All we have control over is ourselves.....and allowing our minds to jump to immediate conclusions over a whole sect of people because we saw a couple we don't agree with is erroneous thinking on our own part. THAT is something we can change and control....not the actions of others



True, we cannot control the thoughts and deeds of others.

But it doesn't mean we have to like what the actions of a few do to the image of us all... Frankly many of my female friends claim to "dislike feminists", because they feel the movement is counter-productive to true equality, and I'm inclined to agree with them sometimes.

For you Green Eyes:kiss2:

-Ty

P.S. Can I have that cake now please?


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 27, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I saw your post as being a bit over the top and overly dramatic (like your muslim analogy is) because I would rather protect the right to free speech for EVERYONE rather than tape their mouths shut.



And, dare I say, his post was _irrational_, since--as you point out, GEF--there's no rational way a feminist blog where a few people exercise their right to free speech can be compared to terrorism.

Ergo, Ty, take the mote out from your own eye before you go calling people _irrational_.


----------



## mossystate (Jul 27, 2008)

wrestlingguy said:


> I wonder if the digression would have taken place if the orignal post was placed on another board.
> 
> Maybe I'm a big old dummy, but I can't connect the dots that brought the thread to where it is now. I'm also not sure that I want to.
> 
> I'm also looking in amazement as another thread that I read right before this is from a newbie who is looking for acceptance & perhaps a bit of support here, and then gets to read THIS thread. I wonder what's going through their minds??



This game is also being discussed on another board. If any angle other than the fat one were discussed on that board, ' we ' would be told to get lost. I think it is very appropriate that people talk about what they want to talk about, to discuss any and all angles. 

I sometimes look on in amazement that if some people dare find a negative about something that has a ' fat tone ', then it must be wrong. It becomes a ' oh, lighten up ' situation. Would you suggest that nobody comment..if they don't like something? That is what I am sensing, as I know very well why this thread has gotten to this point. 

I don't see how this thread has somehow damaged the people who come here for support. Like in the ' real world ', lots of threads make up the fabrics of our lives. Some would say there are much more damaging things around here than this.The person looking for acceptance might look at those and go running for the hills. That's what happens when many different types get together....stuff is discussed...shown...etc..etc..etc..etc


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 27, 2008)

Tychondarova said:


> I don't know why you're taking this out on me...



I don't know you. I have nothing against you. I'm not taking anything out on you. You don't know me. You don't know what I resent or celebrate. Please don't make assumptions.

My post was addressed to your histrionic bashing of feminism in general and of certain women specifically. If you go back and re-read, you will see that I made no blanket statements about you--that would be irrational--but kept myself to the context of your post. I also used some humor. That's about the extent of what I said. 

So I simply don't know where you're coming from with your assumptions in your response.

It's always interesting to me that it's the most irrational people who will try to call those they disagree with "irrational" in turn, as if simply hurling that accusation were proof enough of who's right and who's wrong. Clearly, if you disagree with someone, you should say you disagree and leave it at that. If you're trying to reiretate a point, you should reiterate your point and leave it at that. If you're trying to offer a counterargument, you should offer a counterargument and leave it at that. Jumping to conclusions, assuming too much... now _that's_ irrational and illogical.

I'll reiterate my previous point, but re-phrased: Just because you don't approve of a couple of women's opinions on some blog, does not mean that they have to have their mouths taped shut. No one has to seek your approval or permission to express their views. That you believe the women in question are too rash does not mean that your opinions--about what feminism has or has not accomplished and whether for our own good women should force some other women to be quiet--have any more validity than anyone else's. But you seem to believe that by simply calling others irrational and loudmouthed, you have established some ground of correctness for how women should or shouldn't behave. Well, it's not enough to have an opinion, Ty. You're entitled to it, but not to feeling like it counts more than others', and that by simply raising your voice you've had the last word.

(See? Unlike you, when I call people irrational, I demonstrate my point.)

Thanks.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 27, 2008)

Tychondarova said:


> But it doesn't mean we have to like what the actions of a few do to the image of us all... Frankly many of my female friends claim to "dislike feminists", because they feel the movement is counter-productive to true equality, and I'm inclined to agree with them sometimes.



I feel that woman who say the "dislike feminists" have bought into the negative stereo-typing that people like to do when they feel threatened  
Let's leave it at this......


----------



## Asrai (Jul 27, 2008)

The leader of the swedish feminist party said during a meeting that there should be a "man tax" since men rape and abuse women.

So there is no wonder that many men have a beef with feminists if they think like that.




Though if they passed that law would that mean I could rape and abuse women as long as long as I paid my "man tax"?


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 27, 2008)

Asrai said:


> The leader of the swedish feminist party said during a meeting that there should be a "man tax" since men rape and abuse women.
> 
> So there is no wonder that many men have a beef with feminists if they think like that.



Riiiiiiiiight. You have a beef with feminists, but not with Swedes.

I see where you're going with that. 



> Though if they passed that law would that mean I could rape and abuse women as long as long as I paid my "man tax"?]



Well, well. I see that you may be a coward and--apparently--channeling Ted Bundy, but you still _do_ appear to retain your wits about you. 

Lemme 'splain something to you, Gary Leon Ridgway: Putting it in a smaller font and in white text may hide it from first glance, but it does not make that sentiment any less completely pathological. Get help. For God's sake.


----------



## wrestlingguy (Jul 27, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Riiiiiiiiight. You have a beef with feminists, but not with Swedes.
> 
> I see where you're going with that.
> 
> ...



Hello, sir.............all that wisdom in just 50 posts. I will temporarily set aside my want to get this thread back on original topic (although I would welcome a new thread to discuss the points brought up by Mossy, GEF, and Fasc), just so I could comment publicly on your very brave comments. You won't have to read between the lines to see what I'm really thinking.







I never liked Sweeden............


----------



## Tychondarova (Jul 28, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> (See? Unlike you, when I call people irrational, I demonstrate my point.)
> 
> Thanks.



Yeah, because THAT'S not hostile... 

Whatever, like you said, I don't know you, and you don't know me. You came off to me as a resentful person looking to take out your aggression on someone, and I came off as being a mysoginist. I know you're wrong about me, and by that logic, chances are good I was wrong about you. Let's leave it at that, agreed?



Asrai said:


> The leader of the swedish feminist party said during a meeting that there should be a "man tax" since men rape and abuse women.
> 
> So there is no wonder that many men have a beef with feminists if they think like that.
> 
> ...



Yeah, how about that, huh?



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I feel that woman who say the "dislike feminists" have bought into the negative stereo-typing that people like to do when they feel threatened
> Let's leave it at this......



Why would women feel threatened by feminists unless they thought they were doing ill?

Oh, now I see what you mean, you're making a subtle jibe at me.



Fascinita said:


> Riiiiiiiiight. You have a beef with feminists, but not with Swedes.
> 
> I see where you're going with that.
> 
> ...



I think he was making a joke.

Whatever, this whole experience has just reinforced why I loathe the internet.

-Ty


----------



## FaxMachine1234 (Jul 28, 2008)

mossystate said:


> hmmmm, ' should change ' sounds like a suggestion....kinda like when people talk about a billion other things and voice concern...opinions......suggestions. I guess I am not seeing the rampant censoring, concerning this trailblazing game.
> 
> I _am_ glad that you are truly concerned about the ' feminist movement '. Perhaps the ' feminist movement ' could use your........suggestions...as it seems like you see the real issues.



Assuming you're being sarcastic (I honestly can't tell), my point was that this was not a "real issue" for feminists, and to be screaming loudly everytime somehow produces something that refers to women being not in an equal role (although this game takes place in an era in which that wasn't the case, Keira-Knightly-in-Pirates-be-damned) just makes the screaming about important issues not as noticable, and that's a real shame. The civil rights movement largely knew when to pick its fights well, but I don't really see that from the feminist movement.

Why are there two threads on this game, anyway?


----------



## gangstadawg (Jul 28, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Can I feed him cake?
> 
> Anyhoo, there was a game with a "roaring woman"...it's called Mortal Kombat 3 and the character was Sindel. One of her personal weapons was a piercing scream that would render her opponent helpless for a short bit.
> She also could sling her long hair and it pick up her opponent and toss them about.
> ...


actually some woman can be fairly scary. im not homophobic but hever seen a stud lesbian in the hood pissed? seems like the majority of them are hard (there atitude and state of mind) if not harder than a male inmate in a maximum security prison. here in detroit in a club you gotta becareful with them but thats a whole nother topic that ill save for fullfiggas.


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 28, 2008)

Tychondarova said:


> You came off to me as a resentful person looking to take out your aggression on someone, and I came off as being a mysoginist. I know you're wrong about me, and by that logic, chances are good I was wrong about you. Let's leave it at that, agreed?



Well, I _was_ resentful. I was resentful of your comments specifically.

There's a difference between being resentful for a moment and being a resentful person.

I think you understand, at least, that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, at least where this thread is concerned.

Makes no difference to me, one way or the other, how you want to leave it. But please understand that if you expect to hold me to standards to which you don't hold yourself, I'm going to have something to say about it. 



Tychondarova said:


> why I loathe the internet.
> 
> -Ty



Brother, you and I both!

I especially loathe it when people raise the old "He was just making a joke" flag when I point out that joking about rape and abuse is kinda not so much funny as sick. Lololol. Know what I mean? Because then it's like, the problem isn't the rape comment! The problem is that I don't have a sense of humor! Lololol. And you see, I loathe that. hahah heheheeh.

Yeah, good times.

Oh, you kid.


----------



## mossystate (Jul 28, 2008)

Ekim said:


> Assuming you're being sarcastic (I honestly can't tell), my point was that this was not a "real issue" for feminists, and to be screaming loudly everytime somehow produces something that refers to women being not in an equal role (although this game takes place in an era in which that wasn't the case, Keira-Knightly-in-Pirates-be-damned) just makes the screaming about important issues not as noticable, and that's a real shame. The civil rights movement largely knew when to pick its fights well, but I don't really see that from the feminist movement.
> 
> Why are there two threads on this game, anyway?



Jesus H Macy

Where, in this thread, have you seen a call to arms...a call for a million feminist march...etc..etc..etc........I have seen , and have participated in making mention of a stereotype. It really is not a bad thing to do this.

As for comments made on other sites concerning this game, and more to the point, the attitude, again, never bad to keep people on their toes. It helps with having some at least question what they enjoy...and why. It really is not always about the particular game...speech...whatever...in question.

Oh, and there are always these comments about how this group ..or that group...should conduct themselves....you know.......out of sheer concern....yeah. 

----

I was going to comment on the boy who made the ' rape tax ' joke...but...I will let him read my thoughts.


----------



## Littleghost (Jul 28, 2008)

Jack Skellington said:


> Samus was trailblazer in that respect.
> 
> When Metroid was first released in the US in 1987 I think it was bit of shock to some people when they found out they had been playing as a woman the entire game. On a bit of a side note Super Metroid is my favorite SNES game of all time. I played that game to death.



I always liked Samus and Metroid. It seemed (and probably still is to some extent) to be way ahead of its time in a lot of ways. It was very bizarre though that her character was developed as well as it was while surrounded by save the princess games, but when the next notable female character came out nearly a decade away, Tomb Raider's Laura Croft wasn't much more than Indiana Jones as eye candy. Quite a step back.


----------



## olwen (Jul 28, 2008)

Tychondarova said:


> ...No, I don't think women want to beat me up. I was being hyperbolic because I'm pretty sure that feminists want to beat me up. At any rate, it was meant to be an over-the-top image meant to illustrate how hard feminists are to please with female video game characters.
> 
> And no, I'm not scared of women. In fact, I have grown quite fond of them
> 
> ...



Okay, if you don't think a few irrational feminists don't represent all women then why even bring this up? 
....I'm guessing your idea of a feminist isn't what my idea of a feminist is. I'd even go so far as to say that the idea you may have in your head isn't a feminist at all...


----------



## olwen (Jul 29, 2008)

Tychondarova said:


> No, but if I met that guy I'd tell him to stop drinking and beating up women, not only because its wrong, but because it makes the rest of us guys look bad. And yes, those feminists don't speak for and represent all women, but in the eyes of the masses, they do. My point is that because they stir up controversy it creates a skewed view of the percentage of women who think like they do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Look Ty, your post here makes it seem like you really believe that all feminists really are all feminazis. Feminazis aren't feminists. They're just angst filled young women. Feminism shouldn't be as complicated as Einstein's Theory of Relativity. The movement is woefully misunderstood. Yes feminism can be about equality but ultimately it's about choice. A woman should be able to choose her own path and make her own way in the world. When that happens then we will be equal to men. That's all there is to it.


----------



## Tychondarova (Jul 29, 2008)

olwen said:


> Okay, if you don't think a few irrational feminists don't represent all women then why even bring this up?
> ....I'm guessing your idea of a feminist isn't what my idea of a feminist is. I'd even go so far as to say that the idea you may have in your head isn't a feminist at all...



I don't think they represent all women, but there are some who do, and the more noise those irrational few make, the more people will have a skewed perception.



olwen said:


> Look Ty, your post here makes it seem like you really believe that all feminists really are all feminazis. Feminazis aren't feminists. They're just angst filled young women. Feminism shouldn't be as complicated as Einstein's Theory of Relativity. The movement is woefully misunderstood.



And I wonder why the movement is woefully misunderstood?

It is because of the controversies like these. That's the whole point I am tyring to make.

Of course, personally I have never encountered a women who labeled herself as a "feminist" that WASN'T like that, but I still believe that most feminists aren't as irrational as the feminists I've encountered.

At least I hope not.

-Ty


----------



## olwen (Jul 29, 2008)

Tychondarova said:


> And I wonder why the movement is woefully misunderstood?
> 
> It is because of the controversies like these. That's the whole point I am tyring to make.
> 
> ...



Ty, just repeat to yourself: Feminazis aren't feminists. 

They aren't feminists for the same reasons that fundamentalist christians aren't real christians or fundamentalists muslims aren't real muslims. See? Actual feminists are not irrational. Period.


----------



## mossystate (Jul 29, 2008)

feminazi.....oy....funny thing?...some women who are given that moronic label are actually just kickass, intelligent women......but, I do know how some people love flinging the label nazi around...


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 29, 2008)

mossystate said:


> feminazi.....oy....funny thing?...some women who are given that moronic label are actually just kickass, intelligent women......but, I do know how some people love flinging the label nazi around...



Why, mossy! Whatever do you mean? Don't you agree that the (so-called) word "feminazi" flung at a woman is a marker of only the highest, most distinguished, logically sound speechifying? 

Just the way it rolls off the tongue... _Femi.... nazi_. Sounding for all the world like the feminine hygiene product of choice of Hitler's mistress... Reminiscent of the most noble pronouncements of the World's Bestest Human Rights Defender and Protector of Humanity from the Claws of Evil Women (TM). 

How fiendishly clever it is, to lump outspoken women with Nazis. How clever, indeed.


----------



## Santaclear (Jul 29, 2008)

There are good Feminazis and bad Feminazis, same as any other group. It's unfair to lump them all together and paint them with the same Nazi broad brush.


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 29, 2008)

Santaclear said:


> There are good Feminazis and bad Feminazis, same as any other group.



I'll grant you that some feminine products are better than others at doing what they say they'll do.



My only question is, "Why hasn't the word 'femifascist' been coined yet?"

My only other question is, "What about 'femi-Huns'?" Why have they not been afforded an equal foothold in the popular imagination?


----------



## Santaclear (Jul 29, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> My only question is, "Why hasn't the word 'femifascist' been coined yet?"
> 
> My only other question is, "What about 'femi-Huns'?" Why have they not been afforded an equal foothold in the popular imagination?



Nazi broads evidently don't go for those terms, hun.


----------



## Santaclear (Jul 29, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> I'll grant you that some feminine products are better than others at doing what they say they'll do.



I agree it should sound like a female product or some sort of lozenge.

What about Feminine peskies?


----------



## FaxMachine1234 (Jul 29, 2008)

The more annoying thing is that there are a ton of video games that depict women in a much more degrading manner, namely the Grand Theft Auto-clones that have sprouted up over the last few years and just a lot of games in that genre, and you don't hear a peep about those things, but this innocent(-ish) little game has this "controversy" on the front page of Yahoo.


----------



## olwen (Jul 29, 2008)

mossystate said:


> feminazi.....oy....funny thing?...some women who are given that moronic label are actually just kickass, intelligent women......but, I do know how some people love flinging the label nazi around...






Fascinita said:


> Why, mossy! Whatever do you mean? Don't you agree that the (so-called) word "feminazi" flung at a woman is a marker of only the highest, most distinguished, logically sound speechifying?
> 
> Just the way it rolls off the tongue... _Femi.... nazi_. Sounding for all the world like the feminine hygiene product of choice of Hitler's mistress... Reminiscent of the most noble pronouncements of the World's Bestest Human Rights Defender and Protector of Humanity from the Claws of Evil Women (TM).
> 
> How fiendishly clever it is, to lump outspoken women with Nazis. How clever, indeed.



Oh dear, I'm afraid I'm just lost. What are we talking about? An outspoken woman or a woman who speaks period....Unfortunately, Ty has a point about how a lot of people view feminists - as _feminazis _and that just shouldn't be believable like the tooth fairy or santa claus or jesus. I hope I was clear about that in the first place.


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 29, 2008)

Santaclear said:


> I agree it should sound like a female product or some sort of lozenge.



I like the word lozenge. I don't know why.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 29, 2008)

olwen said:


> Look Ty, your post here makes it seem like you really believe that all feminists really are all feminazis. Feminazis aren't feminists. They're just angst filled young women. Feminism shouldn't be as complicated as Einstein's Theory of Relativity. The movement is woefully misunderstood. Yes feminism can be about equality but ultimately it's about choice. A woman should be able to choose her own path and make her own way in the world. When that happens then we will be equal to men. That's all there is to it.





olwen said:


> Ty, just repeat to yourself: Feminazis aren't feminists.
> 
> They aren't feminists for the same reasons that fundamentalist christians aren't real christians or fundamentalists muslims aren't real muslims. See? Actual feminists are not irrational. Period.



You know....as I was reading your post that quoted Ty's post....it occurred to me how he keeps saying he has "female friends"    
hehehehehehehehhee



Help I'm chuckling...and I don't want to stop! :happy:



Tychondarova said:


> I don't think they represent all women, but there are some who do, and the more noise those irrational few make, the more people will have a skewed perception.
> 
> 
> Of course, personally I have never encountered a women who labeled herself as a "feminist" that WASN'T like that, but I still believe that most feminists aren't as irrational as the feminists I've encountered.



Ty...I support feminism....so I'm supposing that makes me a feminist. 

As I stated earlier, I have met some real asshole men that do stupid, mean shit .........but know what? I like to think of myself as intelligent to some degree...which means I won't lump them all together. 
Nah, I'm not doing the menfolk a favor not to consider them all assclowns...I'm just doing the smart....and dare I say LOGICAL?..... thing. 





Santaclear said:


> Nazi broads evidently don't go for those terms, hun.



Oh how I continued laughing



Santaclear said:


> I agree it should sound like a female product or some sort of lozenge.
> 
> What about Feminine peskies?



One thing I am not sure of is who exactly needs the feminine protection....it ain't always the womenfolk that are on the rag......:doh:


----------



## Observer (Jul 30, 2008)

This whole thread has been hijacked into an argument over semantics. 

The real question is, what if anything is wrong with a female video game writer portraying one of her sisters as a fat person rather than the traditional Pauline in peril? 

With the exception of Miss Piggy (a puppet) and a few Superman episodes every female role that I can think of over 60 years (Lois Lane in Superman, Margo Lane in the Shadow, Olive Oyl in Popeye, Kitty in Gunsmoke, Tess Truhart in Dick Tracy, Jane in Tarzan, Della Street in Perry Mason, etc ) has been a size 12 or smaller. 

The FAs of the world finally get ONE Fat Princess (and a virtual character at that) and the PC crowd goes ballistic! Let's see some video games featuring Rosemary Clooney and Kate Smith! Those gals could sing.


----------



## DuskyJewel (Jul 30, 2008)

Observer said:


> This whole thread has been hijacked into an argument over semantics.
> 
> The real question is, what if anything is wrong with a female video game writer portraying one of her sisters as a fat person rather than the traditional Pauline in peril?
> 
> ...



I think you have hit the nail on the head. I have been going back and forth with my opinion of the game and I have to agree.. the "controversy" is in the fat in Fat Princess. The women who have been critical in interviews are most likely not fat-positive nor interested in advancing size acceptance. It seems that they are offended by the idea of a fat woman period. If not, where have they (and the rest of the MSM) been with the release of increasing violent, anti-female games out there? Based on all that I have read, it had little to do with fat and more to do with gamers/gaming and the seemingly anti-female environment.

On a side note: The idea that fat can be used to one's advantage is actually interesting to me. Question: Is there something inherently bad in being too heavy for enemies to carry away? Or does it fly in the face of the belief that a woman should be willowy and light?


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 30, 2008)

Observer said:


> The FAs of the world finally get ONE Fat Princess (and a virtual character at that) and the PC crowd goes ballistic!



Well, if the FAs of the world are happy... That's all I care about!

(Or at least, that's all I _should_ care about, evidently.)



PS - I'm ballistic. Ballistic, I tell you. Watch out, cuz I've gone ballistic.

PPS - All kidding aside--no, really--when I see fat being bashed I speak up, and when I see women being bashed I speak up, too. Don't ask me to choose. I'm both fat and a woman. Perhaps not having to see the world from a woman's point of view is a "luxury" that men can afford, fat or thin, but I'm not as priviledged. And I will defend the rights of fat people and women both whenever and wherever I can. In addition, while it's fine to chide us about our splitting hairs over semantic, I didn't exactly notice you, Observer, stepping up to the plate to challenge the validity of some very ugly, very destructive sentiments that were expressed against "feminists" and women in general earlier in this thread. Perhaps you have less trouble swallowing that kind of vitriol than the semantic stylings of the "PC brigade," but from where I'm standing, that in itself smells like teen spirit (and by teen spirit I mean bias.) And anyway, "PC" has been so thoroughly reviled in the last decade that methinks the tables are turned--the real policing, it's now clear, is being done by those who don't think it's OK to be PC. Yes, folks, it's become all the rage to say that "PC" sucks. It's become un-PC to be PC. And if you're PC, you are suspected of being downright un-American sometimes! Nowadays, the old enemies of PC act more PC than the "PCrs" themselves! Irony, anyone?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 30, 2008)

Post pix o ur balls plz kthx


----------



## mossystate (Jul 30, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Well, if the FAs of the world are happy... That's all I care about!
> 
> (Or at least, that's all I _should_ care about, evidently.)
> 
> ...




I can smell the smoke coming from your brain....mmmmmm....reminds me of Oberto Cocktail Peps.

You...m'lady...are out of control.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 30, 2008)

Oh gawd Monique...don't get it all messed up...I don't want a pic of her brain....I WANT TO SEE SOME BALLS DAMNIT!!!!


----------



## CleverBomb (Jul 30, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Oh gawd Monique...don't get it all messed up...I don't want a pic of her brain....I WANT TO SEE SOME BALLS DAMNIT!!!!


Balls y stick?
"Y" of course, is "and" in Spanish. Sorry, had to go multilingual to make the pun work...
-Rusty


----------



## mossystate (Jul 30, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> PPS - All kidding aside--no, really--when I see fat being bashed I speak up, and when I see women being bashed I speak up, too. Don't ask me to choose. I'm both fat and a woman. Perhaps not having to see the world from a woman's point of view is a "luxury" that men can afford, fat or thin, but I'm not as priviledged. And I will defend the rights of fat people and women both whenever and wherever I can. In addition, while it's fine to chide us about our splitting hairs over semantic, I didn't exactly notice you, Observer, stepping up to the plate to challenge the validity of some very ugly, very destructive sentiments that were expressed against "feminists" and women in general earlier in this thread. Perhaps you have less trouble swallowing that kind of vitriol than the semantic stylings of the "PC brigade," but from where I'm standing, that in itself smells like teen spirit (and by teen spirit I mean bias.) And anyway, "PC" has been so thoroughly reviled in the last decade that methinks the tables are turned--the real policing, it's now clear, is being done by those who don't think it's OK to be PC. Yes, folks, it's become all the rage to say that "PC" sucks. It's become un-PC to be PC. And if you're PC, you are suspected of being downright un-American sometimes! Nowadays, the old enemies of PC act more PC than the "PCrs" themselves! Irony, anyone?





Seriously...this is a fantastic paragraph. It is about the common decency of not dismissing people, and their personal experiences, which, when living in someplace bigger than ones four walls, becomes about all of us.


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 30, 2008)

CleverBomb said:


> Balls y stick?
> 
> -Rusty



Downright _balistica_!

El smoke-o is coming out of my cabeza, as someone pointed out.

You quiero pix k thanks?

:happy:


----------



## wrestlingguy (Jul 30, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Oh gawd Monique...don't get it all messed up...I don't want a pic of her brain....I WANT TO SEE SOME BALLS DAMNIT!!!!



For you ladies, I present.................the balls.





I'm wondering how many of you FEMINISTAS already have these on your trucks...............if not, wear 'em in good health!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 30, 2008)

On their trucks? Not hardly......... 



REAL feminazis keep 'em like this......
















Oh yeah, baby.....that's soooo hot  


But if you got some BIG balls, then the femi nazis ain't so scary....


----------



## olwen (Jul 30, 2008)

Did somebody mention cock and ball torture?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 30, 2008)

It's so good to see that I don't have to beg for big cawk pics by myself anymore......


----------



## mossystate (Jul 30, 2008)

That is one BHC.


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 30, 2008)

Hang on a sec. I need to get my ball bearings.


----------



## fatlane (Jul 31, 2008)

How come there's never a helpless guy in these games? Does nobody want to rescue a helpless guy?

Or puppies? Is it too much to ask for a game where one has to save a puppy? Or would the screen where the puppy buys the farm because you were too much of a spazz too objectionable?

Sheesh... I'm gonna go play Europa Universalis III now... while swingin' to classic Dean Martin tunes.






That's what video games need. More Dean Martin crooning, less gangsta rap and emo metal... Martin's got CLASS.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 31, 2008)

^^^I love that idea Fatlane.....but I wouldn't rescue him..... I WOULD KICK HIS ASS!!!!!



Hells yeah....kick it....hard.....and often........just like a good feminazi should!


----------



## fatlane (Jul 31, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> ^^^I love that idea Fatlane.....but I wouldn't rescue him..... I WOULD KICK HIS ASS!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Hells yeah....kick it....hard.....and often........just like a good feminazi should!



OK, this thread needs to move to the fiction part of the forum... NOW!!!

:wubu:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 31, 2008)

fatlane said:


> OK, this thread needs to move to the fiction part of the forum... NOW!!!
> 
> :wubu:




Careful, careful now........I have written stories and they are down in the erotica forum.....don't give me any new ideas.... :wubu:


----------



## fatlane (Jul 31, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Careful, careful now........I have written stories and they are down in the erotica forum.....don't give me any new ideas.... :wubu:



Is there a step-by-step procedure to follow to not give you ideas?

And if I gave you an idea... would I be... _baaaad?_


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 31, 2008)

fatlane said:


> Is there a step-by-step procedure to follow to not give you ideas?
> 
> And if I gave you an idea... would I be... _baaaad?_





Hit me....or would you rather that I hit you?


----------



## fatlane (Jul 31, 2008)

OK, this is SO not on topic...

I am bad.

Please?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 31, 2008)

fatlane said:


> OK, this is SO not on topic...
> 
> I am bad.
> 
> Please?




I don't know....are you? and bad at what...? 






















So tell me Fatlane....do ya like Femi nazis? You only get one chance to answer corectly.......


----------



## fatlane (Jul 31, 2008)

Homina homina homina homina...


----------

