# Are There Men That Have Been Ruined?



## LoveBHMS (Aug 28, 2006)

This is a serious question.

Is it possible that some BHM's have just been messed up for life? I've found too many self help books for women that focus on the woman's role in the relationship and pretty much say "If a man likes you he will behave a certain way."

I had met a wonderful BHM. His last relationship had been 5 years of shacking up with a woman he didn't love. He said he didn't propose because he "didn't even like her that much" and didn't break up with her b/c "he didn't want to admit defeat." Prior to that he'd dated a woman who was with another man the whole time. She got engaged to the other man and according to this wonderful BHM, stalked him to the point he had to change his phone number.

He and I had known each other for around a month and a half. Everything was wonderful. It was long distance but he visited me and we emailed and talked every day. We laughed constantly. We talked in a roundabout way if we were looking for something permanent which we both were. He wanted me to come visit him and sent me a non-refundable plane ticket. He called and asked me to send him a shopping list b/c I'm a vegetarian and he wanted to know what food I liked. He asked me how I liked a bed set up, what kind of sheets I liked, and told his mom about me. He'd planned part of our weekend, telling me we were doing ____ the night I got there and going out with his best friend the next night and after that we'd just play it by ear.

Then out of nowhere, he just ends it. Tells me "we have nothing in common" and since it "isn't going to go where he wants it to" [meaning he wanted to talk about us living together] he's ending it completely. He starts crying and said he was falling for me but couldn't handle getting hurt again. I told him I couldn't make any guarentees, and after less than six months certainly couldn't say I wanted to marry him, but was definitely falling for him and thought we had something wonderful.

I couldnt' think of any red flags. He'd sent me a non refundable plane ticket. We'd talked about a future together. He'd bought vegetarian food for me. Each time we'd talk or email he'd tell me how he was fixing the house up so it would look nice for when I visited him. Then while crying he tells me it's over. I tried to talk with him but he said he didn't want to talk to me b/c it would be too hard. I tried emailing him but he would never even answer me.

I went back over the whole thing, and all I could come up with was, why would he stay with a woman he didn't love for five years and toss me out like trash while CRYING and saying how much he liked me and had wanted to be with me. All I could think of was, maybe it's not me, it was him. Maybe some men simply don't want healthy normal enriching relationships.


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## missaf (Aug 28, 2006)

I wouldn't say this is unique to BHMs, it happens to everyone, male and female. 

Keep in mind that it sounds like this is his problem, not yours, and he's got to work through it in order to be healthy enough to be with anyone.


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## steely (Aug 28, 2006)

It's definitely not you!I'm sorry this happened to you.It sounds like he has serious issues.how could he have gotten hurt in the previous relationship if he didn't care about the woman.He sounds confused and needs to do some soul searching.You may have dodged a bullet.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 28, 2006)

that he was in a comfort zone with being unhappy.

And I'm not given to armchair psychoanalyzing. He never said he was hurt in the previous relationship, just that it was bad. He said he never loved her, didn't even like her, didn't want to marry her, etc. And it's not like I needed to hear that or asked him a dozen times about his ex, he pretty much volunteered all of it. I was in no way insecure about his feelings for me, I think that's why I was in so much shock when he just said "it's over."

I truly think that he didn't know how to deal with something nice and normal and terrific, so he just ruined it before it could get ruined. And it's not like I say that whenever something doesn't work out, but in this case, I think it was the truth.


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## lemmink (Aug 28, 2006)

I think a lot of guys have problems like that, it isn't BHM specific. After a horrible relationship, they just don't feel they deserve to be loved when someone good comes along. I guess this is also why you hear a lot about women and men involved in a 'cycle' of abusive relationships.

I wouldn't totally give up on him, though. He may come back and surprise you. It may just take him time to get over what's happened before. He sounds like a sweet guy with a lot of baggage.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 28, 2006)

I wish it were so, but I doubt it.

When somebody sends you a non-refundable plane ticket to visit them, buys you vegetarian food when he's a major carnivore, and has your visit planned and tells his mom about you...and then suddenly shuns you, he's not coming back. We'd even talked about things we'd do in the future, like birthdays, holidays and such. We were really in synch about our approch to relationships, both of us feeling like they should be about teamwork and that they should be not 50-50 but 100-100. That is why I think it was him and not me, I think he had what he wanted but had been in crappy situations for so long that he couldn't handle it. I suggested he give it time, and he said "his whole life he'd taken things one day at a time and that had always sucked, so now he KNEW it wouldn't end up the way he wanted so he ended it."

I tried telling him my heart was open, at least for a while. I emailed him several times asking him if this was truly what he wanted, and could we work together to solve whatever problems we had? He refused to even answer. He told me in no uncertain terms to never call him, not send him any gifts, not make a surprise visit. He kept saying "It's over. When I give somebody my word it means something, and it's over it's over it's over."


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## Carrie (Aug 29, 2006)

I don't know if this will be a comfort to you, but I'm hoping the possibility might help to explain things a bit. The thing about long-distance relationships that *begin* as LDR's (meaning you've never lived in close proxomity to your partner) is that you really have no idea what's going on in that person's life when they're not in contact with you. I'm not anti-LDR, not at all. I believe that love is worth working for, and that distance shouldn't necessarily be a significant hurdle. But the fact is, if you're not seeing that person on a regular basis, you're not able to develop your own perception of what's going on in his/her life - your only perception is what that person is feeding you (forgive the inadvertent pun). Sometimes it's accurate, and sometimes it isn't. 

Of course there's a story behind my feelings. I met someone over a year ago here at Dim who seemed utterly perfect for me - the only drawback was that he lived several hundred miles away. We talked constantly, told each other everything about our lives (or so I thought), became closer than I ever dreamed two people could become. Things eventually went bad, and left me just in complete misery and shock - there was no explanation for his actions, based on what I knew of him. Well, that was the problem....all I knew of him was what he'd presented to me, and what I'd gathered in the little time that we spent together physically. He was a wonderful person, and I don't regret loving him, not for a minute, but it was later revealed to me that he had things going on in his life that were pretty horrific, and made any relationship, never mind a long-distance relationship, out of the question for him at the time. He was too afraid to tell me what was going on in his life, so he hid it all from me until he was no longer able to, and then everything fell apart. 

So that's not meant to be a cautionary tale to anyone, and maybe something similar happened with your guy, maybe not. His intentions may have been 100% true, but who knows what may have actually been going on in his life that affected this break-up. Sometimes people get in over their heads and then flounder around and make a mess of things, despite their best intentions. I don't know, maybe this *is* meant to be a cautionary tale, after all - my feeling now is that if I meet someone I like, say, online, and he lives far away, I want to meet him quite soon if we both feel that feelings are developing and there may be a future, and I want to spend a good bit of time with him - not just a weekend - so I can feel confident that what I think of him is actually true, and so that he can do the same with me. 

Gah. I don't know if I'm making sense, but I hope that helps a little. Anyway, I'm very sorry this happened to you. I do know how heart-wrenching it is. 


P.S. The guy I fell for was 5'10", 140 lbs. soaking wet, so it can happen with anyone.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 29, 2006)

in that this was not specific to his being a BHM.

Or to it being Long distance. 

I just thought that we had so much going for us, that why would he give it up?


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## TraciJo67 (Aug 29, 2006)

There are so many possibilities. Yeah, he could be as emotionally fragile as he says he is. Or, he could be involved with someone else or back together with the woman that he's claimed all along that he didn't love. I understand where you are coming from. When your heart is broken, you want so badly to know the "why" of things. The sad thing is, most of the time, you have to live with the knowledge that you'll never really know what happened. As time passes, you begin to realize that the "why" of it isn't as important as you thought initially -- at least as applied to what motivated the other person to act as he did. I've found myself in a similar position, I think we all have, to one degree or another. It sucks, and nothing but time eases the heartache. Hopefully, as time passes for you, why he broke it off will matter less to you ... and the fact that he didn't treat you respectfully, no matter what his reason, will matter more. You deserve to be with someone who is emotionally available and healthy. 

I no longer care about "fixing" broken things, and I can't imagine something more distasteful to me personally, than to be with someone who drains my time and energy with his selfish rendition of his past baggage and how he can't get past it. Blah, blah blah, man. Get over yourself, and don't get involved in another relationship until you can be reasonably certain that you're healthy enough to avoid hurting someone else. That's what I'd be telling myself, if I were feeling hurt as you do. It's time for you to get angry, and then move on. This man isn't worth your pain.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 29, 2006)

I know that for certain.

But you are right in that the why doesn't matter.

My thinking is always that people are not interchangeable. This man was special and wonderful and terrific, and while I have lost him, it's not comfort to say that somebody else will come along.


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## TraciJo67 (Aug 29, 2006)

LoveBHMS said:


> I know that for certain.
> 
> But you are right in that the why doesn't matter.
> 
> My thinking is always that people are not interchangeable. This man was special and wonderful and terrific, and while I have lost him, it's not comfort to say that somebody else will come along.



I'm sorry, I think that I wasn't clear. I wasn't suggesting to you that someone else will come along. I don't think that would be appropriate advise at all, especially when your heart is broken and you are vulnerable.


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## Carrie (Aug 29, 2006)

LoveBHMS said:


> in that this was not specific to his being a BHM.
> 
> Or to it being Long distance.
> 
> I just thought that we had so much going for us, that why would he give it up?



I apologize; maybe I wasn't as clear as I had hoped in my post. The point that I was trying to get at was similar to what TraciJo said - that due to the distance and the resulting situation, you'll probably never know what went wrong, which is, admittedly, maddening, frustrating, and heartbreaking. So while asking "why" is perfectly natural, the sooner you accept that you will probably never have an answer to that, the better. 

I am very sorry for the pain you're experiencing.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 29, 2006)

I do absolutely believe it was what Lemmink said, that some men just prefer or are accustomed to being in abusive relationships.

I am pretty much positive that is what happened, it was all too normal for him so he ruined it.


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## SamanthaNY (Aug 29, 2006)

LoveBHMs, I hope that _you _don't get ruined by this. I'm sorry this guy flaked on you, but sadly this is something that certain people do, and it's not particular to men or women. And Traci's right - you may never know why. 

Bottom-lining it, he was irresponsible and unreliable. He didn't handle himself, or his relationship well, and he didn't treat you fairly. Chances are he would have flaked on you over and over again, so even though it hurts, you've probably been spared in the overall sense. 

If you take anything away from this, I hope it's a bit of pride that you got out of it when you did, that you've examined your part in it, and that you've perhaps learned to recognize the type if you run into it again.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 29, 2006)

Believe me, I examined my part over and over again. I never would look at a situation and say "oh, I am 100% blameless here." But in this case, I think it was just him, i don't think there was anything I could have done differently or any signed I could have seen [apart from his having stayed with a woman he didn't love for so many years] that would have told me it wasn't going to work.

It seems too easy and self indulgent to say "he just wasn't ready for a relationship" but in this case, I think it's true.


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## Jackoblangada (Aug 29, 2006)

There is one thing I tell every woman I know , friend, lover or family, and I know I am going to get flamed for this by some guys but..

Never underestimate the fragility of the male ego. 

In this case it sounds exactly like what you said. His ego simply could not take another direct hit so he broke it off. 

Ia sure there were a few more things going on in his head but basically he was scared. That alone is enough of an ego shot for some.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 29, 2006)

I understand that the male [and sometimes the female] ego is fragile.

I knew he had been in a bad relationship. I made every effort to remind him I cared. I went out of my way to vocally appreciate what he did for me. If I hurt him, I always apologized. I tried to listen to what was important to him and accomodate him when I could. I always told him that whatever troubles we had, I'd work with him to address them.

I even tried to make a point of complimenting him a lot. Not in a fake fawning way, just to notice positive attributes he had, whether it was his beautiful eyes or his professional capabilities. 

I was not perfect, nobody is. But when you know you've done 100% to make something work, there is nothing more you can do.


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## Obesus (Aug 30, 2006)

I will never forget when someone I had been with for almost two years suddenly broke it off without a single word of explanation. About a year later she called me up and invited me out to tea and explained that she had a habit of breaking off with men before it got "serious", because she was afraid of being rejected (we were both fat)...and I was an ego-shattered mess for years after that. It just seemed so crazy. 
Now, a couple of decades later and with a lot of study of human psychology, I can she that she had some pretty severe avoidant issues due to her abusive upbringing. You just never know, even with someone you have physically lived with or known for years. It is always a chance, but sometimes the person is just important enough to you for you to take the big chance. I think I am a lot better prepared at this point than I was twenty years ago...my insight has grown so much, but the male ego is always a touchy thing and always will be: the myth of the big strong emotionless man is just that...a myth...JO has it down pat! :bow: 



Jackoblangada said:


> There is one thing I tell every woman I know , friend, lover or family, and I know I am going to get flamed for this by some guys but..
> 
> Never underestimate the fragility of the male ego.
> 
> ...


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## Ivy (Aug 30, 2006)

word. i've had thin men do this to me, and chunkers. 
it really, really sucks. i hope that you find someone awesome soon!!

it is his issue, not yours. he is obviously crazy.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 30, 2006)

I think I've just read too many self help books that say if a guy likes you, he'll stay. While books like "He's Just Not That Into You" and "The Rules" make some good points such as allowing men to pursue you and telling you when a guy is just making excuses and doesn't like you, they also just don't allow you to say "sometimes it's not you, it's him" and "some men are not ready for relationships." What you always read is "If a guy says he isn't ready for anythng serious, it means he doesn't like you."

This guy never said anything like that. All his indications were that he did care. In fact, when he sent me the plane ticket, he'd remembered I was a vegetarian and made sure I would get a vegetarian dinner on the flight. He also told me he wanted to sit outside and roast marshmallows because he thought it would be romantic, when I told him I couldn't eat marshmallows because they're made with gelatin [not vegetarian] he went online and found a supplier that sold vegan marshamallows and emailed me when they had been shipped. He said "Hey! I got the shipping notice for the vegan marshmallows today." No guy that doesn't like you is going to do that.

His upbringing may not have been perfect, but once you are well into your 30's I don't accept that as an excuse. By then you should have either been in therapy or done enough soul searching or just plain learned that healthy relationships are possible. Everyone has "things" left over from their childhood, I know I do, but I am able to articulate them and say "I have this personal shortcoming...this is where it comes from."

I think more and more my original thought was right; he simply was in a comfort zone after so many years of bad relationships and that was either all he knew or all he wanted to know.


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## Buffetbelly (Aug 30, 2006)

Sounds like it has everything to do with being long distance. Six weeks is very little time for an online relationship. It seems awfully short a time to be buying nonrefundable tickets for someone and discussing sheets and things. Sometimes relationships that build more slowly over time instead of erupting overnight into a full time obsession have better prospects for survival. Your relationship was too fast to live, yet too young to die.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 30, 2006)

What gave that idea?

We spent time together in person.

Because it was long distance, yes we talked and emailed a lot, but it was a "real" relationship. It wasn't like we had never been in the same room and were talking marriage.

All he was doing in sending the ticket was asking me to come visit him and he sent it b/c I'd recently started my own business and was more financially strapped then he was.


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## Buffetbelly (Aug 30, 2006)

LoveBHMS said:


> *He and I had known each other for around a month and a half.* Everything was wonderful. It was long distance but he visited me and we emailed and talked every day. We laughed constantly. We talked in a roundabout way if we were looking for something permanent which we both were. He wanted me to come visit him and sent me a non-refundable plane ticket.


 
It sounds a bit intense for a 6 week long distance relationship. That's all I'm saying. A lot of guys would get scared.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 30, 2006)

He was the one that said he "knew" he wanted it to move towards something permanent. I didn't demand the plane ticket, he sent it.

I think the speed was mutual, really. We were both comfortable with it. There were times we'd get on the phone and suddenly realize it was 3 or 4 in the morning. It was amazingly nice, but not intense on a scarey level. I truly think it was comfortable for both of us.

I also think part of the problem is that I needed more time and he said he didn't. He pretty much wanted me to say "i knew the second I saw you that you were the man for me" and I needed more time. I thought he was amazing; sexy, funny, smart, successful, good values, etc. But you still need time to really get to know somebody.


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## CuteyChubb (Aug 30, 2006)

It's not your fault. I think I have your guys problem. I recently broke up with my husband of 4 months and have no intention of going back. I have had sooooo many bad relationships and have spent the majority of my time out of relationship rather than in one. It is very uncomfortable for me to be in a real, loving relationship. I don't know how to behave. I probably need loads of therapy. I am right now, as I type driving my soon to be ex-husband crazy because I will not take his call. I figure it would just be better for everybody if it was over. I am sorry you got messed up with someone who sounds like me. We have good intentions but when things get too serious and seem too good to be true, we're outta there. Better luck next time.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 30, 2006)

I wonder how you'd both feel if you knew the pain you were causing.

I'm not saying this to guilt you, but it's ironic that he was so afraid of being hurt that he inflicted severe hurt on somebody else. I thought that was amazingly selfish. If he knew he had "issues" he should have stayed the heck away from an innocent woman who wanted nothing more than to build a relationship with him.


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## Laina (Aug 30, 2006)

LoveBHMS said:


> He was the one that said he "knew" he wanted it to move towards something permanent. I didn't demand the plane ticket, he sent it.
> 
> I think the speed was mutual, really. We were both comfortable with it. There were times we'd get on the phone and suddenly realize it was 3 or 4 in the morning. It was amazingly nice, but not intense on a scarey level. I truly think it was comfortable for both of us.
> 
> I also think part of the problem is that I needed more time and he said he didn't. He pretty much wanted me to say "i knew the second I saw you that you were the man for me" and I needed more time. I thought he was amazing; sexy, funny, smart, successful, good values, etc. But you still need time to really get to know somebody.



...actually, I think that was the first red flag. Sounds dumb, I know, but a guy who rushes into a relationship will often rush out just as quickly. This is especially common in "comfort creatures"--and the same guy will often stay with someone they no longer have feelings for, simply so they don't have to be alone. What it comes down to is a need for intimacy but an unwillingness to take the time to foster the same. (Or, sometimes, an inability.) 

For many of the same reasons, adolescent relationships move at a similar pace--a teen couple can go from flirting to engaged and back in a matter of months. (After which they tend to "hate" each other and vow to never speak again...which never seems to last.)

If, for some reason, he comes back into your life (and if you decide you want him there), stick to your guns and insist on getting to know him--because you nailed it when you said it takes time. If he doesn't come back...well, you might be better off. *hugs* 

I'm sorry, hun.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 30, 2006)

I gave a lot of thought to what you said about the speed, but honestly we were both adults and it did feel comfortable.

What you said about the comfort creatures was perfect, though. I think you're right that some people just have to be in a relationship even if it's a bad one and even if being there is stopping both partners from finding somebody they each really love.

He's not coming back. That i know. Even if he did, now i know he's somebody who can just take a flyer on the whole thing. Everyone needs security in a relationship, and if you're rightfully always going to worry about if each time you see him or talk to him it will be the last time, then how can you relax and get to know him? Some people have a 'fear of abandonment'. I don't have that by nature but if somebody has already done it to you, you could never let them back in your life except as a casual friend, one that you expect nothing from. Who wants to worry all the time if he's going to take off with no warning.

I can't say I am better off without him, because he was terrific. But I can say he clearly was not ready for a real relationship. I think he probably feels relieved now that the pressure of having something normal is gone.


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## CuteyChubb (Aug 30, 2006)

LoveBHMS said:


> I wonder how you'd both feel if you knew the pain you were causing.
> 
> I'm not saying this to guilt you, but it's ironic that he was so afraid of being hurt that he inflicted severe hurt on somebody else. I thought that was amazingly selfish. If he knew he had "issues" he should have stayed the heck away from an innocent woman who wanted nothing more than to build a relationship with him.



You are right. It is selfish. For me, it's self protection. I'm not sure if that is what happenned with you, it just sounded familiar. In the event your ex is like me, we really can't help the behavior. It's like the whole time we were together, I kept waiting for him to end things. He wouldn't. so I did. It is crazy, so it doesn't make sense. I am sorry you are hurting.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 30, 2006)

since it was long distance, there was that challenge. i told him that I didn't think any challenges were insurmountable as long as we worked on them together.

I truly did not want to move where he lived, but since he owned a house and I did not, and i'm self employed and can work from anywhere and he had an office job, we agreed if it came to that, it made more practical sense for me to move.

anyway, he knew I would not have really enjoyed living where he did, and he kept goading me into saying that it wouldn't work. One night he spent literally hours saying "just tell me, tell me to give up hope, tell me it's never going to happen, I need to know it is a dead end." And I said "i can't tell you that. I like you. I can't make any promises one way or the other. let's just keep being honest with each other and keep seeing what happens. let's give it time." And he kept asking me to tell him that there was no chance of it ending with us being together. I kept saying that I couldn't swear anything one way or the other, I just didn't know after less than six months!!!

If anyone is looking for guarentees, they're just not there.


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## Laina (Aug 30, 2006)

LoveBHMS said:


> I gave a lot of thought to what you said about the speed, but honestly we were both adults and it did feel comfortable.
> 
> What you said about the comfort creatures was perfect, though. I think you're right that some people just have to be in a relationship even if it's a bad one and even if being there is stopping both partners from finding somebody they each really love.
> 
> ...



I guess what I meant was more "you're better off in no relationship than you would be in the kind of relationship he could offer at this point". I have no doubt that he was wonderful while you were courting...because comfort creatures don't MEAN to do what they do. They're not looking for women (or men) to hurt. It's more that they want, very much, to be loved. Enough so that they will dive headlong into a relationship, usually with high expectations ("we'll get married, you'll move here, everything will be wonderful!"). If the relationship does go somewhere, they either panic that it will end...or panic because it isn't ending. The problem, I think, is their expectation level at the outset. Every relationship is going to be just PERFECT...and when perfection is not forthcoming, they don't know how to react.

Obviously it's not something that you did wrong, and I'm not trying to imply that you did. It sounds like this guy has serious issues on his own end that he needs to work through--issues that I'm sympathetic to, honestly. And I'm still really sorry this happened. Sometimes it doesn't matter if it was six weeks, six months, or six years. When you're building a connection and it disappears, it hurts, no matter what.


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## Laina (Aug 30, 2006)

CuteyChubb said:


> You are right. It is selfish. For me, it's self protection. I'm not sure if that is what happenned with you, it just sounded familiar. In the event your ex is like me, we really can't help the behavior. It's like the whole time we were together, I kept waiting for him to end things. He wouldn't. so I did. It is crazy, so it doesn't make sense. I am sorry you are hurting.



*hugs* Been there, done that, had the therapy. Speaking of which, HAVE you considered therapy? This is in no way an attack...when my fiance and I split up I spent a lot of time bouncing from relationship to relationship, always ending things when it got "too serious", because I was convinced that this guy, too, would get tired of me (and sleep with my best friend...ugh). Eventually a friend sat me down and said "so what's wrong with being alone until you find someone you trust?".

I'm not saying that made it all better...but the time alone helped. The time spent dating casually helped. Going back to school, finding my own path, making my own friends...it all helped. I'm not afraid to be single anymore, because I have a clear definition of myself--and better still, I'm not afraid to love someone and lose them.

Other than that, I can only wish you the best, hun. And remind you that you CAN help yourself (and other people can help you) once you really know what's holding you back.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 30, 2006)

He expected it to be perfect. He expected ME to be perfect. Obviously that is a 100% chance of being let down because nobody is and nothing is.

We had this one 'go round' where I was really ticked off b/c a client had stiffed me for over $5K and another client had terminated a contract. I was down about $12K financially from where I thought I'd be at the time. It was really scarey and depressing. One thing i do when I get depressed/panicky is I transfer things onto the other person, taking what I think of myself and putting it on them, i.e. "You think I'm stupid, you think I'm incapable of making my business work, you probably think everything I do is stupid."

Now, I know that's wrong, but I also know I have a pattern of doing that and anyone that knows me has been on the receiving end of it and typicaly says "Calm down, I know you're just angry about [something]" In fact, when I reached out to friends for support, they all said "Oh, yeah, you get like that, it's no fun but it's just how you are, I love you and just wait for you to relax b/c I know it's just a phase."

With this man, I explained myself and apologized. I told him I'd gotten angry and fed up over the $$ issues and that I acted out. I said I was sorry and said it was a pattern I should not have acted out on him. Now, he'd had his own issues and quirks and oddities throughout. We always talked things through and when there were problems he'd apologize and i'd assure him that I accepted him how he was. But he didn't do the same for me.

And that was the problem. He was allowed to be imperfect but I wasn't. He should be forgiven his quirks but not me. Once I let it slip that I wasn't perfect and the relationship wouldn't be perfect, he freaked. And that is HIS thing, not mine.


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## lemmink (Aug 30, 2006)

LoveBHMS said:


> anyway, he knew I would not have really enjoyed living where he did, and he kept goading me into saying that it wouldn't work. One night he spent literally hours saying "just tell me, tell me to give up hope, tell me it's never going to happen, I need to know it is a dead end." And I said "i can't tell you that. I like you. I can't make any promises one way or the other. let's just keep being honest with each other and keep seeing what happens. let's give it time." And he kept asking me to tell him that there was no chance of it ending with us being together. I kept saying that I couldn't swear anything one way or the other, I just didn't know after less than six months!!!



Sounds like the guy was going absolutely crazy to get a definite. I think he sounds pretty damaged by his past relationship - just from that kind of conversation, it's not really very, er, healthy. While he seems to have been a really super guy, he probably wasn't ready for a commitment - or, conversely, WAY too ready for commitment.


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## CuteyChubb (Aug 30, 2006)

Laina said:


> *hugs* Been there, done that, had the therapy. Speaking of which, HAVE you considered therapy?




Thanks for the hug, back at ya. Yes, I have considerd it. I wonder though if it may be too late. I'm so used to being me, maybe I can't change. Therapy is not really an option for me now as I can not afford it. Did it really help you? 

I have decided to be single forever. I will date casually but when things start to get serious, I'll just be honest and tell him, I just can't do it. I like sleeping single in a double bed.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 30, 2006)

He most certainly was not ready. He may have wanted one, but if your notion of a committment is one where you have a 100% promise of everything being just what you want, then you're not ready.

I have no guarentee that I won't get hit by a bus when I'm walking to work tomorrow. None whatsoever. There are no guarentees in life. Marriages unravel after years, perfect couples break up, seemingly perfect people have flaws. Expecting perfection and taking a flyer when it doesn't come is just setting yourself up.

If you can't handle a relationship with warts and all, you can't handle one. I didn't think expecting a man in his late 30's to know that was expecting too much.


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## moonvine (Aug 30, 2006)

Laina said:


> ...actually, I think that was the first red flag. Sounds dumb, I know, but a guy who rushes into a relationship will often rush out just as quickly. This is especially common in "comfort creatures"--and the same guy will often stay with someone they no longer have feelings for, simply so they don't have to be alone. What it comes down to is a need for intimacy but an unwillingness to take the time to foster the same. (Or, sometimes, an inability.)



This is a red flag on several levels. One of the hallmarks of an abusive man is also to rush into relationships. 

I don't think rushing into a relationship is ever a good thing. Just my opinion.


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## moonvine (Aug 30, 2006)

CuteyChubb said:


> Thanks for the hug, back at ya. Yes, I have considerd it. I wonder though if it may be too late. I'm so used to being me, maybe I can't change. Therapy is not really an option for me now as I can not afford it. Did it really help you?



I don't think it is ever too late for change, unless you are dead. Sometimes it is too early for change, and some people aren't ever ready. It can be hard and painful to change. You have to be ready to change and want to do so for yourself. 

Moonvine, former therapist.


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## Laina (Aug 30, 2006)

CuteyChubb said:


> Thanks for the hug, back at ya. Yes, I have considerd it. I wonder though if it may be too late. I'm so used to being me, maybe I can't change. Therapy is not really an option for me now as I can not afford it. Did it really help you?
> 
> I have decided to be single forever. I will date casually but when things start to get serious, I'll just be honest and tell him, I just can't do it. I like sleeping single in a double bed.



I'm with moonvine--it's never too late. If you're talking about it here, maybe it's time to talk about it elsewhere, too. If you can't afford therapy (and gods know I couldn't) there are usually community programs that offer group therapy--in some cases there are free or reduced price clinics, as well (I know of at least one in _my_ area, which is of course no help to you).

You can try namitexas.org/resources/links.html for links to all kinds of help. If you're feeling overwhelmed by the options, look into emotionsanonymous.org--I think (although I'm not sure) they offer online support, as well. It also doesn't hurt to mention to your primary doctor that you were thinking about therapy and see if they can reccommend someone in the area. (That's actually how I found my therapist--and my mother wandered into a walk-in clinic for a referral to hers.)

*edited because I'm pretty sure direct URL links are against the rules. Eep!


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## Laina (Aug 30, 2006)

moonvine said:


> This is a red flag on several levels. One of the hallmarks of an abusive man is also to rush into relationships.
> 
> I don't think rushing into a relationship is ever a good thing. Just my opinion.




Very, very true. Moreso when you read that he was allowed imperfections, but his partner was not. I'm glad you got out when you did, hunny...no matter how hard it was.


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## LoveBHMS (Aug 30, 2006)

I'm not being self aggrandizing, but I certainly allowed him his imperfections. That is what you do in a healthy adult relationship.

He didn't allow me mine.

If you're waiting for a perfect woman and a perfect relationship you will find yourself very lonely.


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## BLUEeyedBanshee (Aug 31, 2006)

I've been reading through this thread. I don't think this kind of behavior is just among BHM's. I have seen my fair share of average guys behave similarly.

Do I think past relationships can scar a person pretty bad? Hell yeah, I know that for a fact. 

Thing is, there have been two times in my life I've rushed into a relationship. The overwhelming initial euphoria was awesome...the first one things went south very quick. I felt suffocated. He was a great guy, a sweet guy, but a little too sensitive for me. I need a certain degree of freedom or I freak out. He didn't really understand that. We then were "just friends' and things were much better. I still care a lot about him and when he moved over 600 miles away, I really missed him. But it wasn't that big euphoric rush I missed. It was him, the friendship we built and all that. 

Second time...well again the big rush of emotions and happiness and ummmm well naughtiness for lack of a better term right now. It was awesome...lasted for close to a year and then well it was relatively hollow. We stayed friends, for about a year or so, both dated other people and now we're back together, as more than friends. The year of "friendship" makes us much more substantial. I love him. And it's fine to be frustrated with him and he with me, because we are also best friends.

Whirlwind relationships are just that...whirlwind, they can fizzle out fast, or build up more speed, but eventually fizzle out. 

Anyway...in the long run, if it was just a month and a half wasted, it's not an overwhelming loss. I don't think this phenomenon is solely among BHM though by any means.


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## LoveBHMS (Sep 1, 2006)

Gathering everyones' opinions has been helpful. you've all had a lot of insight...most importantly that it's not particular to BHM's.

I guess part of me thought there was something else going on in his head. He'd been over 430 at one point, and I think when you get to that size, in many cases there is a not very happy reason for it. I got the sense the fat was 'insulation' for him.

Funny thing was i never thought of it as whirlwind. We weren't like all teenagerish over it, i thought it was a pretty mature and good thing when it was going on.


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## DebbieBBW (Sep 1, 2006)

I have seen both men and women do this...and I have to admit that to a degree I have done it myself. I probably had a read flag or two to go on, but either way I work harder at keep men away from me then I ever do to get them close, out of fear.

I would say that this poor guy sounds scared to death. With the other ladies it sounds like he was only with them "just because" and losing them would not have been such a big deal. The idea of losing someone like you on the other hand I think was something he just could not take...

He need to seek some help and who knows, maybe you two can still work things out. I wish you both the best!


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## LoveBHMS (Sep 1, 2006)

the whole notion of 'fear of getting hurt' bothers me. Everyone risks getting hurt in any area of their life. What if you said you were afraid to go jogging because you might get hit by a bus? Or afraid to have a job you like because you might lose it? Or afraid to buy a nice purse because somebody might steal it? I guess you could make an effort to be across the board miserable, but why? Just because there are no guarentees in life?

Part of why it really stung was that, as I said, we were very different in superficial ways [where we lived, upbringing, education, etc.] and I always knew there was a chance he'd dump me for somebody more like himself. I even told him that, I said he was worth the risk of losing my heart to him even if it meant I might get dumped for somebody more his type. I'm not saying "well I took a risk and so should he" but it's just part of life, part of relationships.

Sure it's horrible to lose somebody you love, but people live through it. And it might never even have happened!!


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## Qit el-Remel (Sep 2, 2006)

Wow. And I thought that guys who swear you to secrecy and then run their _own_ sucks were bad! 

He put up with someone he didn't even _like_ out of fear of being alone...but he dumps a woman whom he claims to be in love with? Sounds to me like that boy is a bona fide, Grade A, _neurotic mess_ who's afraid of love (would the word be "agapophobia"?). 

-Qit


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## LoveBHMS (Sep 2, 2006)

We just both agreed we were heading that way. We both said we were "falling"

Part of it was the long distance, in her case she was already there and i think he just didn't want to bother breaking up with her. It's easier to break up with somebody you're not living in the same state with.

The whole 'afraid of love' and 'afraid of being hurt' thing just annoys me. I mean, I was the one that wound up getting hurt! So he protected himself at my expense, and really at our expense because he told me the whole problem was he couldn't stand it being a 'dead end' thing, which it didn't have to be.


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## Qit el-Remel (Sep 2, 2006)

LoveBHMS said:


> We just both agreed we were heading that way. We both said we were "falling"


Okay. Thanks for the clarification.



> Part of it was the long distance, in her case she was already there and i think he just didn't want to bother breaking up with her. It's easier to break up with somebody you're not living in the same state with.


Those sound...well, kind of like excuses (on his part). I've heard people claim the exact opposite.



> The whole 'afraid of love' and 'afraid of being hurt' thing just annoys me. I mean, I was the one that wound up getting hurt! So he protected himself at my expense, and really at our expense because he told me the whole problem was he couldn't stand it being a 'dead end' thing, which it didn't have to be.


Basically. As I stated, the guy sounds neurotic. Not to mention a bit self-absorbed.

-Qit


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## LoveBHMS (Sep 2, 2006)

Wow. Nail. Head. Hit.

You just crystalized it for me. He was self absorbed. I thought of him as kind and generous and thoughtful because of all these things he did for me. Like buying me vegetarian marshmallows and buying the kind of sheets I liked and telling me he cared about me. And I can't take that away from him.

But when it came down to it--he wanted what he wanted. When I said we talked about marriage it was more in an abstract way, sort of talking about 'what if's' the way you might do if you wanted kids or didn't want kids and wanted to clarify that early on in a relationship. I agreed that since I didn't own a house and he did and i could work from anywhere, that if we got to that point, it made more sense for me to move then him. When he expressed certain neuroses he had, I listened and assured him of my feelings and that I would always be honest with him about different things. Yet when my neuroses came out, he got angry at me and said it was over. I was willing to deal with our differences--I'm not saying this matters but I was better educated and we just knew differeent types of people as far as professional and educational status. We liked different things. I was willing to put the effort in to work throught our differences but he wasnt.

And you're right, it's because he was too self absorbed to deal with not having exactly what he wanted and too self absorbed to work at problems and issues that come up in EVERY relationship.


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 3, 2006)

Just curious - would this guy happen to patronize the Dims boards?


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