# National Geographic Channel: "Taboo: Fat"



## ThatFatGirl (Jan 18, 2010)

Potentially interesting program with a couple of familiar faces airs this Wednesday, January 20 at 10 pm Eastern on National Geographic channel.

"Taboo: Fat"

In much of the West thin is beautiful, and fat is taboo. But a new health epidemic is sweeping the planet: obesity. We follow the story of Alan, who at 650 pounds is imprisoned in his own bedroom. In Mauritania mothers risk the health of their daughters by force-feeding them to fatten them for marriage. In the U.S.A., Deidra, a 450 pound model is fat, proud and happy. And 24 "plus size" women push the ideals of beauty when they compete in the Miss Plus America Pageant.

Read more: http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/taboo/4597/Overview#ixzz0cwIHRaEB


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## stan_der_man (Jan 18, 2010)

Thanks for the heads up TFG! It will be interesting to see how National Geographic presents the subject.


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## Paquito (Jan 18, 2010)

I've been looking forward to it. The Drugs and Prostitution ones were very interesting.


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## indy500tchr (Jan 18, 2010)

There was a film crew at the DIMS Bash back in June. They interviewed me and a few others for the show. I'm just curious to see if I made the cut!  

They asked very positive questions about DIMS and how I feel about myself. Let's just hope they don't do any funny editing and twist my words.


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## FatAndProud (Jan 18, 2010)

If someone could (in the future) post a link of the show...I'd be glad to see it. I've got no tv and/or cable!


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## mel (Jan 18, 2010)

I just set my DVR


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## Rowan (Jan 18, 2010)

indy500tchr said:


> There was a film crew at the DIMS Bash back in June. They interviewed me and a few others for the show. I'm just curious to see if I made the cut!
> 
> They asked very positive questions about DIMS and how I feel about myself. Let's just hope they don't do any funny editing and twist my words.



Same here...id like to see if i made the cut but i dont get the channel and i cant afford to subscribe to it! Blah


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## ThatFatGirl (Jan 18, 2010)

Rowan, you indeed made the cut! I don't know to what extent of course, but your beautiful face is in the ad twice.


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## DeniseW (Jan 18, 2010)

In a preview I saw, it showed you dancing with someone.....



Rowan said:


> Same here...id like to see if i made the cut but i dont get the channel and i cant afford to subscribe to it! Blah


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## superodalisque (Jan 18, 2010)

here is a snippet of the program, at least one section anyway: 

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/series/taboo/4597/Overview

also note the context of the show about Fat as it relates to the other shows in the Taboo series. you might find it interesting. this season they are, Fat, Narcotics, Misfits and Strange Love?


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## exile in thighville (Jan 18, 2010)

yeah i have a good feeling about this


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## FatAndProud (Jan 19, 2010)

Ugh...I saw the previews for this show....I don't think I'd like it. It's made to look like a freakshow. I mean...next in the lineup is Altered States: Drug Cultures Around the World...


Nice one....really. :|


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## MatthewB (Jan 19, 2010)

I dunno; they were pretty open about the practice of bringing out dead bodies during celebrations in one episode...

I've got the channel, so I might just DVR it, and see.


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## superodalisque (Jan 19, 2010)

FatAndProud said:


> Ugh...I saw the previews for this show....I don't think I'd like it. It's made to look like a freakshow. I mean...next in the lineup is Altered States: Drug Cultures Around the World...
> 
> 
> Nice one....really. :|



i had seen the shows before so when i found they were at the dimsbash in orlando i stayed as far away from the cameras as possible.


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## Jigen (Jan 19, 2010)

Sounds Interesting.


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## collared Princess (Jan 19, 2010)

Mango is looking to cool in this episode !!!


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## TallFatSue (Jan 19, 2010)

FatAndProud said:


> Ugh...I saw the previews for this show....I don't think I'd like it. It's made to look like a freakshow. I mean...next in the lineup is Altered States: Drug Cultures Around the World...
> 
> Nice one....really. :|


Exactly. It looks like freak show by association, at the very least. Besides, the video previews are about a fat man who "was eating himself to death" and a country where "young girls are force-fed in a tradition called 'gavage'." Looks like more of the usual fat = freak junk. 

Why won't anyone make truly fat-positive documentaries, about fat people who are perfectly happy, healthy and doing just fine in life? Maybe because happy, healthy people of any size are too boring for compelling television? This might be a job for Mythbusters! Meanwhile, I'll content myself with real-life "boredom" anytime. 

PS. Oh heck. Now I have visions in my head of Mythbusters Jamie and Adam following me around on a typical day, testing my office chair etc. Naaaahhhh....


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jan 19, 2010)

TallFatSue said:


> Why won't anyone make truly fat-positive documentaries, about fat people who are perfectly happy, healthy and doing just fine in life? Maybe because happy, healthy people of any size are too boring for compelling television?



You've put your finger on it, Sue: television is about stories, and stories are about conflict. How many great novels -- or movies -- are about happy people having a nice time? So any TV portrayal of fat people -- or thin people -- is going to include some element of threat, danger, or misery. As Piet Hein put it:

"All true wisdom must comprise
Some nonsense as a compromise
Lest fools should fail to find it wise."


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## EtobicokeFA (Jan 19, 2010)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> You've put your finger on it, Sue: television is about stories, and stories are about conflict. How many great novels -- or movies -- are about happy people having a nice time? So any TV portrayal of fat people -- or thin people -- is going to include some element of threat, danger, or misery. As Piet Hein put it:
> 
> "All true wisdom must comprise
> Some nonsense as a compromise
> Lest fools should fail to find it wise."



You are right. Except in cases of Documentaries, were you need to include the truth.

Okay you may be selective with the truth, or dress up the truth but it still has to be mostly based on the truth.


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## joswitch (Jan 19, 2010)

ThatFatGirl said:


> Potentially interesting program with a couple of familiar faces airs this Wednesday, January 20 at 10 pm Eastern on National Geographic channel.
> 
> "Taboo: Fat"
> 
> ...



Bolded for the AAAaaaargh!! I'm so sick of hearing the media trot out that BS hyperbole!


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## Judge_Dre (Jan 19, 2010)

Taboo is an excellent show. For all those on this board who worry about the "freakshow" aspect of it, that's really the opposite of its intent. While definitely the shock factor is what gets people to watch the episodes on such outre subjects as drugs, funeral traditions, sex, blood sports, exotic cuisine, etc., the show really tries to break the down the cultural barriers we have towards these subjects. What's normal for one group of people is shocking to an other. We have to admit, that is an apt description of our subculture. It's better to have anthropologists and serious researchers at National Geographic profile our culture rather than exploitative talk shows and diet gurus.


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## FatAndProud (Jan 19, 2010)

Judge_Dre said:


> Taboo is an excellent show. For all those on this board who worry about the "freakshow" aspect of it, that's really the opposite of its intent. While definitely the shock factor is what gets people to watch the episodes on such outre subjects as drugs, funeral traditions, sex, blood sports, exotic cuisine, etc., the show really tries to break the down the cultural barriers we have towards these subjects. What's normal for one group of people is shocking to an other. We have to admit, that is an apt description of our subculture. *It's better to have anthropologists and serious researchers at National Geographic profile our culture rather than exploitative talk shows and diet gurus.*



Umm, excuse me...but is that not what these so called anthropologists and 'serious' researchers are doing at National Geographic? They are using MASS MEDIA (which has NEVER been an empirical/validated outlet for 'research) to convey a subculture. Not only are they using a method (mass media) that is NOT PROVEN TO RETRIEVE EMPIRICAL RESULTS, they are further exploiting their 'study' by using shock factors (i.e. fat man eating himself to death, stuffing kids....ohhhhh and there's also a bash that caters to obese...yay? uh no.). I still say it's not a positive step in terms of breaking down cultural barriers. If these were real researchers, they would do a qualitative analysis of fat people as a whole, then onto each society, and further evaluate their data and share the data in an unbiased way. Taboo is meant to shock, period. It's not meant to enlighten or teach us something. That's what peer-reviewed articles are for.


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## Rowan (Jan 19, 2010)

ThatFatGirl said:


> Rowan, you indeed made the cut! I don't know to what extent of course, but your beautiful face is in the ad twice.





DeniseW said:


> In a preview I saw, it showed you dancing with someone.....



Sweeeeet  

We all know I havent met a camera I didn't like LOL 
Hopefully someone will tape it and link it...I've been dying to see it since they did the shoot at the bash!


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## Judge_Dre (Jan 19, 2010)

FatAndProud said:


> Umm, excuse me...but is that not what these so called anthropologists and 'serious' researchers are doing at National Geographic? They are using MASS MEDIA (which has NEVER been an empirical/validated outlet for 'research) to convey a subculture. Not only are they using a method (mass media) that is NOT PROVEN TO RETRIEVE EMPIRICAL RESULTS, they are further exploiting their 'study' by using shock factors (i.e. fat man eating himself to death, stuffing kids....ohhhhh and there's also a bash that caters to obese...yay? uh no.). I still say it's not a positive step in terms of breaking down cultural barriers. If these were real researchers, they would do a qualitative analysis of fat people as a whole, then onto each society, and further evaluate their data and share the data in an unbiased way. Taboo is meant to shock, period. It's not meant to enlighten or teach us something. That's what peer-reviewed articles are for.




National Geographic is a respected institution for over 130 years. They don't do exploitation. When the magazine first came out, it was infamous for publishing photographs of native women topless. That wasn't exploitation, that was truth. Have you ever watched Taboo? They do a great job explaining the reasons and motives behind the various taboos on the show. On topics like sports, extreme food and sex they usually have a doctor explaining the physical effects such activity might have. I have never seen any judgment passed on the people on the show. All the professors are very professional and objective. Force-feeding and immobility aren't pleasant topics, but they do fall under the broad category of "Fat." Taboo really gives a balanced view of various cultures. If tomorrow's episode is exploitative, that would be a first for the show in its four seasons.


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## indy500tchr (Jan 19, 2010)

I am just wondering where you are seeing these preview vids? The only two I have found are about the very large man and the tribe that force feeds their young girls.


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## superodalisque (Jan 20, 2010)

FatAndProud said:


> Umm, excuse me...but is that not what these so called anthropologists and 'serious' researchers are doing at National Geographic? They are using MASS MEDIA (which has NEVER been an empirical/validated outlet for 'research) to convey a subculture. Not only are they using a method (mass media) that is NOT PROVEN TO RETRIEVE EMPIRICAL RESULTS, they are further exploiting their 'study' by using shock factors (i.e. fat man eating himself to death, stuffing kids....ohhhhh and there's also a bash that caters to obese...yay? uh no.). I still say it's not a positive step in terms of breaking down cultural barriers. If these were real researchers, they would do a qualitative analysis of fat people as a whole, then onto each society, and further evaluate their data and share the data in an unbiased way. Taboo is meant to shock, period. It's not meant to enlighten or teach us something. That's what peer-reviewed articles are for.



exactly. they use a lot of enlightened language because its not acceptable anymore to openly do the freakshow act as it has been done in the past. now they use patronizing language to cater to the same emotions and ignorant presumptions. just the title of the series alone was enough without actually seeing the messed up shows they've done in the past was enough to let me know what the outcome would be. the first point being is that for me fat isn't a taboo dammit!


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## t3h_n00b (Jan 20, 2010)

I think there is a problem with the outlook of the documentary. It basically others fatness and an attraction to it as something strange or an exotic oddity that is really screwed it. There's no way to do our community any justice with that outlook. What makes our community what it is is our presence in western media-driven societies. We are HERE and we're normal folks. I haven't seen it yet (obviously), but this documentary doesn't seem inclined to show that.


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## Judge_Dre (Jan 20, 2010)

It seems to me some people are pissed of that us "normal" BBWs and FAs are being lumped in with primitive natives and strange foreigners. Everyone who has been profiled on that show believes that they are normal and what they do is not taboo. That's the whole point. In an anthropological standpoint, these so-called "messed-up" people are no more normal or weird than we are. I'm sure if people who have actually watched the show before realize how respectful Taboo is to its subjects. I am choosing to be optimistic about tonight's episode. We'll just have to watch it and find out.


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## Tmhays87 (Jan 20, 2010)

indy500tchr said:


> I am just wondering where you are seeing these preview vids? The only two I have found are about the very large man and the tribe that force feeds their young girls.



Same here. 

Can anyone point us in the right direction?


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## ThatFatGirl (Jan 20, 2010)

The promo for tonight's program with Diedre and Rowan are airing regularly on the Nat Geo channel.


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## Jes (Jan 20, 2010)

I'd appreciate it if everyone who sees her/himself portrayed (or caught on film) would post where and when. thanks!


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## stan_der_man (Jan 20, 2010)

Judge_Dre said:


> It seems to me some people are pissed of that us "normal" BBWs and FAs are being lumped in with primitive natives and strange foreigners. Everyone who has been profiled on that show believes that they are normal and what they do is not taboo. That's the whole point. In an anthropological standpoint, these so-called "messed-up" people are no more normal or weird than we are. I'm sure if people who have actually watched the show before realize how respectful Taboo is to its subjects. I am choosing to be optimistic about tonight's episode. We'll just have to watch it and find out.



I sort of wondered that myself... Thinking about it more, the combination of "normal BBWs", force feeding West Africans, and an immobile male sort of struck me as doing a show combining the fashion industry with anorexia / pro-ana and Asian feet binding, or something like that.

It will be interesting to see how National Geographic handles the subject at very least. Btw... I just realized that we don't have National Geographic on the Dish that we just subscribed to. If anybody can record and post this show that would be greatly appreciated!


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## the_captain (Jan 20, 2010)

I wonder if Nat Geo sells their programs on DVD, like History Channel and PBS do?


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## the_captain (Jan 20, 2010)

Rowan said:


> Sweeeeet
> 
> We all know I havent met a camera I didn't like LOL
> Hopefully someone will tape it and link it...I've been dying to see it since they did the shoot at the bash!



Can I have your autograph, Rowan?


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## Isa (Jan 20, 2010)

the_captain said:


> I wonder if Nat Geo sells their programs on DVD, like History Channel and PBS do?




They do but it looks like Taboo is sold in seasonal sets.

NatGeoStore


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## FrancescaBombshell (Jan 20, 2010)

I can't wait for this to air...I have my tv set to record!!


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## indy500tchr (Jan 20, 2010)

FrancescaBombshell said:


> I can't wait for this to air...I have my tv set to record!!



I do too but I hope to stay awake to watch it live. It doesn't come on until 10pm here.


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## Rowan (Jan 20, 2010)

the_captain said:


> Can I have your autograph, Rowan?



Awww im flattered :blush:


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## superodalisque (Jan 20, 2010)

Judge_Dre said:


> It seems to me some people are pissed of that us "normal" BBWs and FAs are being lumped in with primitive natives and strange foreigners. Everyone who has been profiled on that show believes that they are normal and what they do is not taboo. That's the whole point. In an anthropological standpoint, these so-called "messed-up" people are no more normal or weird than we are. I'm sure if people who have actually watched the show before realize how respectful Taboo is to its subjects. I am choosing to be optimistic about tonight's episode. We'll just have to watch it and find out.



putting a BBW/BHM and the people who love them in the same category as a man who carries on an adult relationship with a plastic doll is a bit incongruent. i doubt you'll find much of that in america or the rest of the world. but what you do find particularly in the US is lots of people carrying on perfectly normal relationships with fat people everyday since more than half of america is fat. the odd angle is weird at best. i know a lot of people feel comfortable happy and even excited by the feeling that fat is a taboo and a preference unique to them or a small group but thats fantasy and not reality. the hatred of fat and the misunderstanding of admirers is not the result of rarity or oddity but moreso of the brainwashing of the diet industry over the past one hundred years. it will be interesting to see who the advertisers will be.

i've seen the show before and i think it has an appearance of respectfulness but as a fat person i find the approaches listed for the program on the website as patronizing steretypical and more of the same old same old. of course on a show like "taboo" they only want to show extreme cases and not just regular fat people living thier lives like everyone else as most of us do. that would defeat the purpose of making us look like a taboo. instead of painting all of fat people with a broad brush maybe they should have done a show on the fattening culture of the people in mauritania? but even that wouldn't be a true taboo because its a culture wide practice thats approved of. 

i also resent the idea that fat people are an example of people who are taboo but like the other people on the series don't feel they are taboo.


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## FatAndProud (Jan 20, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> putting a BBW/BHM and the people who love them in the same category as a man who carries on an adult relationship with a plastic doll is a bit incongruent. i doubt you'll find much of that in america or the rest of the world. but what you do find particularly in the US is lots of people carrying on perfectly normal relationships with fat people everyday since more than half of america is fat. the odd angle is weird at best. i know a lot of people feel comfortable happy and even excited by the feeling that fat is a taboo and a preference unique to them or a small group but thats fantasy and not reality. the hatred of fat and the misunderstanding of admirers is not the result of rarity or oddity but moreso of the brainwashing of the diet industry over the past one hundred years. it will be interesting to see who the advertisers will be.
> 
> i've seen the show before and i think it has an appearance of respectfulness but as a fat person i find the approaches listed for the program on the website as patronizing steretypical and more of the same old same old. of course on a show like "taboo" they only want to show extreme cases and not just regular fat people living thier lives like everyone else as most of us do. that would defeat the purpose of making us look like a taboo. instead of painting all of fat people with a broad brush maybe they should have done a show on the fattening culture of the people in mauritania? but even that wouldn't be a true taboo because its a culture wide practice thats approved of.
> 
> i also resent the idea that fat people are an example of people who are taboo but like the other people on the series don't feel they are taboo.



Next, I hear NatGeo respected researchers are doing a Taboo show on African Americans in political power. They are interviewing Obama.....

Same difference. Just saying.


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## Jon Blaze (Jan 20, 2010)

I have one sanity point left!


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## Paquito (Jan 20, 2010)

Aww, it was cool seeing people from the Dims Bash!


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## Jon Blaze (Jan 20, 2010)

It was almost balanced...almost lol
At least Fat Admiration was finally described correctly somewhere (Minus the coining of bisizuality question, which I believe goes to Ann Marie lol)


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## Paquito (Jan 20, 2010)

Mango's epic stache took most of the attention!


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## Jon Blaze (Jan 20, 2010)

free2beme04 said:


> Mango's epic stache took most of the attention!



And Ash, Rowan, and all them getting down! lol


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## Tmhays87 (Jan 20, 2010)

I had a brief cameo and my wife had a slightly longer bit, but neither of our interview portions made air. Oh well, that was cool enough, I suppose 

Russell was a fantastic choice as the only Dims Bash attendee with a speaking appearance, if it had to be just one. Personally, I think a lot more could have been added from the footage shot there that could have shown a more positive light on us.

Can't say I'm entirely pleased, overall, but it did try to be somewhat positive. Of course, as always, the last thing we're left with is an ominous reminder of how unhealthy it is to be fat :doh: But, what was I expecting?


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## Paquito (Jan 20, 2010)

Jon Blaze said:


> And Ash, Rowan, and all them getting down! lol



Hear hear! :bow:

The second half was vastly superior to the first.


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## Jon Blaze (Jan 20, 2010)

free2beme04 said:


> Hear hear! :bow:
> 
> The second half was vastly superior to the first.



Agreed. I really wish they had health care professionals with counter views in. If they did, the balance would have been nearly perfect.


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## Jes (Jan 20, 2010)

i found the first section with...michael was it? enlightening and disturbing. I've begun thinking more and more about the infantalizing properties of extreme weight and the teddy bear bedsheets will definitely stick out in my mind. I enjoyed the program.


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## OneWickedAngel (Jan 20, 2010)

I thought it was a fairly balanced episode. Fatness may not have gained any major points, but I don't think we lost any either. Did it end on a negative? Of course, but considering how our society views fatness, it was pretty much a given it would end that way. 

It was cool seeing the very brief glimpses of Dimmers on the dance floor. Go Ashley! Go Mango! Go Leroy! Go Rowan! Go Billie!  For all the interviews that were given I guess was expecting a little more Dims Bash exposure than what finally aired, but much, much kudos to Deirdre! That more than made up for it.:bow:



Jes said:


> i found the first section with...michael was it? enlightening and disturbing. I've begun thinking more and more about the infantalizing properties of extreme weight and the teddy bear bedsheets will definitely stick out in my mind. I enjoyed the program.



His name is Alan and that is exactly what the segment was supposed to be - enlightening and disturbing. Let's face it, the very last image of the show is of him. Despite the positives attitudes shown, the message was pretty blatant (at least to me) this is how all fat people are going to wind up in the end if we don't at least attempt to toe our society's "beauty standard" line.


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## OneWickedAngel (Jan 20, 2010)

..........


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## superodalisque (Jan 20, 2010)

OneWickedAngel said:


> His name is Alan and that is exactly what the segment was supposed to be - enlightening and disturbing. Let's face it, the very last image of the show is of him. Despite the positives attitudes shown, the message was pretty blatant (at least to me) this is how all fat people are going to wind up in the end if we don't at least attempt to toe our society's "beauty standard" line.



exactly! i think Jes' comment about infantilization kinda goes along with that. fat people who like themselves are children with no control over thier bodies, don't know what the hell they are doing so they are doomed like children who eat all of candy and get a tummy ache. there was a lot of finger waving at the end. unless we do something *somber voice* " most of the world might one day be fat" ---wooohoooo! wouldn't that mean it wouldn't be taboo anymore?

it was also kind of messed up the way they tried to make it look like it would be Deidre's fault if we all went to fat hell in a handbasket because she's an example of how not to be miserable about yourself. have you ever noticed how these types of shows never mention once that more people worldwide die from being underweight than overweight by a longshot? 

you're right though. the one redeeming thing was getting to see all of the dimmers out and about. it made me smile remembering!


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## MatthewB (Jan 21, 2010)

I recognized a good number of the dancing ladies; nice to see them living it up! 

Also... I think Deidre may have stolen my heart with that one interview segment. :wubu:


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## FrancescaBombshell (Jan 21, 2010)

I was really hoping that this show would take a different direction.. But as usual its the same bs that we are always hearing.. Enough is enough..I think we have bigger problems in this country then "THE OBEASITYEPADEMIC"


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## Fish (Jan 21, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> there was a lot of finger waving at the end. unless we do something *somber voice* " most of the world might one day be fat"



I swear that the way they ended that show could only have been more melodramatic was if after that last line, they added a big "Dun DUN *DUNNNNNNN!!!!!"""* and maybe Vincent Price's creepy laugh from "Thriller". 

Once upon a time, National Geographic was great. I grew up LOVING that magazine and all the cool stuff I read about in it sparked my imagination. _(Especially all the articles about their hologram covers.)_ But I don't recognize this _*"Nat Geo"*_ exploitative nonsense. This show came off to me as little more than a prettied up circus sideshow.


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## Hathor (Jan 21, 2010)

I don't have TV. Do they ever post full episodes on National Geographic or does someone know of a place where I can catch the full program?


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## moore2me (Jan 21, 2010)

stan_der_man said:


> It will be interesting to see how National Geographic handles the subject at very least. Btw... I just realized that we don't have National Geographic on the Dish that we just subscribed to. If anybody can record and post this show that would be greatly appreciated!





Hathor said:


> I don't have TV. Do they ever post full episodes on National Geographic or does someone know of a place where I can catch the full program?


*
Two more repeats of Taboo: Fat will be on* 

-Sunday January 1/24 at 3 PM Central Standard Time and

-On Wednesday 1/27 at 5 PM Central Standard Time.

Portions of the show are on National Geographic Channels website, but I could not find all of the show on there yet. Here is a link. Perhaps entire show will appear later?

http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/videos/

You might also check with video on demand. If you do not have this service at home, perhaps your local library would have the ability.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_on_demand


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## Russell Williams (Jan 21, 2010)

On the show there were two predictions about life expectancy. One was that this generation will not live to be as old as their parents and a second position was that this fat generation will live as long as their parents but will live in a lot more pain.

When I hear people say that, because so many people are fat, this generation will not live as long as their parents, I combine it with the statements I hear that social securty will go broke because people are living to older ages.

I combine these two statements and comment, "Well if it is true that this generation will not live as long as their parents gereration then social security is saved. Call your congress person and tell them there is nothing to worry about" I have found that my response tends to leave the doomsday people speechless.

Russell Williams


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## the_captain (Jan 21, 2010)

moore2me said:


> *
> Two more repeats of Taboo: Fat will be on*
> 
> -Sunday January 1/24 at 3 PM Central Standard Time and
> ...



Thanks for posting the repeat times, moore2me. Unfortunately I was on an important phone call while the show was on, so I only caught bits and pieces of it. From what I saw it seemed to focus mostly on a fellow named Alan, but I did get to see some Dims folks - that was mighty cool!  I also wish I could have heard more of what Dierdre had to say, but I'll catch up when I watch a repeat.

By the way, they kept showing scenes of a woman clamping some poor kid's foot between two sticks. What was that all about?


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## Tmhays87 (Jan 21, 2010)

the_captain said:


> By the way, they kept showing scenes of a woman clamping some poor kid's foot between two sticks. What was that all about?



That was a Mauritanian woman putting her 5-year-old daugher through a force-feeding ritual called _gavage_. In Mauritania, mainstream views on beauty are essentially the exact opposite of mainstream views in the Western world: fat is beautiful, thin is unattractive. Therefore, many women intentionally gain to become more attractive for potential husbands. This usuallly begins at a young age, and sometimes through forced feeding. The sticks being clamped down on the little girl's feet were to induce a level of pain that would persuade the already-full girl to continue drinking the milk she was being forced to drink.

In the program, they were clear to point out that not everybody participates in _gavage_ (about 1 in 5 girls, they estimate). Though the practice is legal in Mauritania, there is a growing movement against it on the grounds that it is child abuse.


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## Jes (Jan 21, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> exactly! i think Jes' comment about infantilization kinda goes along with that. fat people who like themselves are children with no control over thier bodies, !



No, it wasn't quite that.... I think Alan's piece did make me wonder what the small minority of people who are gainers/feedees and who aspire to Alan's lifestyle think about. His wife was very explicit in saying that she took care of his every need--every psychological need, every physical need (feeding, bathing, changing diapers? linens?) and that he was relegated to his bed. The teddy bear bed sheets really did it for me, and I don't believe that was put on for the camera.


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## ThatFatGirl (Jan 21, 2010)

I really didn't see the point to the first half of the show in the context of "taboo" because Alan is fat, unhealthy and unhappy, something all fat people are supposed to be anyway. Taboo would have been that he was happy or that his wife was getting off on his gaining when clearly that was not the case. I enjoyed the rest of the program (tuning out the ominous health predictions from the health "experts"). I was wondering if they might talk about fetish feeding, yet kind of relieved they didn't. Also, though I loved seeing the images from the Dimensions bash, I cringed when they mentioned it by name as I fear trolls finding their way here to the forums.

I enjoyed what Dierdre had to say too. As someone who still struggles with self confidence, hers was remarkable to me. I second the kudos.


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## Jes (Jan 21, 2010)

ThatFatGirl said:


> I really didn't see the point to the first half of the show in the context of "taboo" because Alan is fat, unhealthy and unhappy, something all fat people are supposed to be anyway.



well....i thought that they did show at least 1 woman who was fat and not unhappy, so I don't know if that holds for me... But yes, perhaps the taboo-ness was just investigating the life of someone that many people know little about (but fear). Perhaps taboo is at times synonymous with spectacle (which only happens when we look at something) and/or fear? Someone with a disfiguring disease (wasn't another episode about leprosy promo'd last night?) isn't taboo at all unless you choose to define taboo as spectacle or fear.


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## Jes (Jan 21, 2010)

ThatFatGirl said:


> I really didn't see the point to the first half of the show in the context of "taboo" because Alan is fat, unhealthy and unhappy, something all fat people are supposed to be anyway.



well....i thought that they did show at least 1 woman who was fat and not unhappy, so I don't know if that holds for me... But yes, perhaps the taboo-ness was just investigating the life of someone that many people know little about (but fear). Perhaps taboo is at times synonymous with spectacle (which only happens when we look at something) and/or fear? Someone with a disfiguring disease (wasn't another episode about leprosy promo'd last night?) isn't taboo at all unless you choose to define taboo as spectacle or fear.


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## Jes (Jan 21, 2010)

ThatFatGirl said:


> I really didn't see the point to the first half of the show in the context of "taboo" because Alan is fat, unhealthy and unhappy, something all fat people are supposed to be anyway.




well....i thought that they did show at least 1 woman who was fat and not unhappy, so I don't know if that holds for me... But yes, perhaps the taboo-ness was just investigating the life of someone that many people know little about (but fear). Perhaps taboo is at times synonymous with spectacle (which only happens when we look at something) and/or fear? Someone with a disfiguring disease (wasn't another episode about leprosy promo'd last night?) isn't taboo at all unless you choose to define taboo as spectacle or fear.

I just had another thought...maybe it's also taboo to look at the humanity of fat people. The fact that we have shitty nutritional options and food culture in many western countries (starting with the US for sure)... Know what I mean? Investigating the fact that society contributes to this issue so heavily and that it's not just lazy people eating 5 chickens for breakfast can be seen as taboo? That might be a stretch...


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## OneWickedAngel (Jan 21, 2010)

I was completely expecting all of the finger wagging "fat people are going to DIE" commentary, so I will concede it didn't piss me as much it perhaps should have. Here are the things that did immediately strike me as negative: 


The first 30-40 mins of the show were on the extreme negatives. The remaining segments combined did not total the first.

While interviewing Deidra, she was still filmed in such a way that it turned her into a "headless fattie" near the end of the segment. If you didn't already know the footage was of her, that's how it would be viewed as the commentator predicted all the ailments she will have as she gets older because of her size.

 The repetitive extreme-close-up eating shots of Alan and Deidra. Seriously, that was so unnecessary and served no purpose but to repulse the mainstream viewer.

 Every segment ended on a negative. Every segment. Especially that oh so ominous very last image of a near naked Alan, before fading to black at the end of the show.

We are divisive enough about feederism here on Dims. There was absolutely NO WAY in hell NatGeo was going to tackle it. That would be an hour unto itself to cover the subject even half-assed, let alone properly. 

The _Taboo_ episode was never going to be a fat positivity show. The fact that liking/loving fat is even being equated with the word taboo, immediately places it on the defensive. It did feature Deidra and the Miss Plus contestants. Women totally who own their beauty, that just happen to be fat. Granted nothing was shown in the best possible light, but it wasn't the total complete goat fuck that has happened to fatties on various other shows (Tyra). So, I considered it as near fair as it possibly could be all things considered.


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## Ned Sonntag (Jan 21, 2010)

Rowan said:


> Sweeeeet
> 
> We all know I havent met a camera I didn't like LOL
> Hopefully someone will tape it and link it...I've been dying to see it since they did the shoot at the bash!


NatGeo had one of the voice-guys who narrate trailers for action-adventure movies narrating the thing to generate maximum anxiety:doh:... I enjoyed the contrast between the two medical pundits: the creepy lisping guy who was terrified at the whole prospect vs the grinning bearded guy who saw some positive aspects... In the Monroe LA beauty-contest the glossy-lipped ultraglam J.Lo girl who inexplicably lost was awesome and I LOVED the short AfricanAmerican girl in the middle in the gold dress... who was the lady at the Big Cuties dance in the red dress putting on makeup in the powder-room? Wow. All our Boston goddesses photographed very well but Rowan even with hair back and glasses on was absolutely riveting:bow: in her few seconds of screen-time. I hope this at least leads to more character-parts in cop shows for our Paysite Goddesses ...we REALLY need to get them onto some SyFy Network shows as the wave Of The Future!!!!!!!!!!!


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## furious styles (Jan 21, 2010)

nothing that hasn't been done a million times before


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## LillyBBBW (Jan 21, 2010)

OneWickedAngel said:


> I was completely expecting all of the finger wagging "fat people are going to DIE" commentary, so I will concede it didn't piss me as much it perhaps should have. Here are the things that did immediately strike me as negative:
> 
> 
> The first 30-40 mins of the show were on the extreme negatives. The remaining segments combined did not total the first.
> ...



Deeds commented that they showed the same spoonfull she ate about three times yet they didn't show ANY footage of her date eating along with her. The place where she works was happy to be featured but in the end this business was described like some two-bit hole in the ground, the only place that would let her work there. She's quite disappointed in the way it was all portrayed and implied most of the business who agreed to be featured are disappointed with their portrayal as well.


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## Ash (Jan 21, 2010)

Ned Sonntag said:


> who was the lady at the Big Cuties dance in the red dress putting on makeup in the powder-room? Wow. All our Boston goddesses photographed very well but Rowan even with hair back and glasses on was absolutely riveting:bow: in her few seconds of screen-time. I hope this at least leads to more character-parts in cop shows for our Paysite Goddesses ...we REALLY need to get them onto some SyFy Network shows as the wave Of The Future!!!!!!!!!!!



This footage was filmed at Dimensions Bash in Orlando, and the girl in the red dress putting on her makeup was Big Cutie Stephenie.


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## Ash (Jan 21, 2010)

You know, I think we all hoped that NatGeo would do us a solid and not produce the same fat show that we've seen over and over and over, but they didn't. The show was incredibly fat negative, on the whole, and even those glimpses of positivity (Deidra's segment, Dims Bash, Miss Plus pageant) were marred by somber voiceovers about how much of a drain fat people are on the healthcare system and how fat acceptance probably shouldn't be encouraged. 

So, my friends and I were having a discussion after we watched the show about future action when we (the collective we, as out-loud fat people and FAs) are asked to do this sort of interview or be filmed for a show like this. Should we learn our lesson and just decline all further publicity or should we continue trying to be heard? Honestly, I'd like to hear opinions here. I'll withhold my own for now. So where do we go from here?


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## Wagimawr (Jan 21, 2010)

I dunno; I'm not convinced the size/fat acceptance community is going to get a fair shake ANYWHERE, so you might as well keep at it, in hopes that somebody presents things fairly.


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## Tooz (Jan 21, 2010)

I really don't get how anyone would honestly be surprised it would be different from the norm.


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## Wagimawr (Jan 21, 2010)

Tooz said:


> I really don't get how anyone would honestly be surprised it would be different from the norm.


Also true, especially when National Geographic is, at least, at its foundation, a scientific organization; and right now, science says FAT IS BAD with very few qualifiers to that doom-and-gloom statement.


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## FatAndProud (Jan 21, 2010)

It makes me sad. I really wanted to believe that something positive would come out of a NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC segment...but I knew better. I really love all the Dimensions' BBW/FA/BHM/etc and I HATE, HATE, HATE to see them shat upon like the media always seems to do. It's almost like watching a brother/sister get pushed in a mud puddle and all the town's people are staring and laughing, and I'm sitting there while it's happening. I suggest those that do public appearances, as a size acceptance advocate, make sure as to what their interview will entail and/or how the interviewer will portray their character. It's all fine and dandy to be out and proud, promoting size acceptance, and having fun while doing so...but it's another matter when you invite someone *outside* of your 'group' to explain how YOU think/feel. I'm beginning to really, really, really hate mass media as a whole. If you want others to know about size acceptance do rallys, protests, and more political avenues instead of something a family watches at primetime to drain out the sorrows of the day.


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## OneWickedAngel (Jan 21, 2010)

Rowan said:


> Sweeeeet
> 
> We all know I havent met a camera I didn't like LOL
> Hopefully someone will tape it and link it...I've been dying to see it since they did the shoot at the bash!



Other than the quick shots of folks dancing there is nothing else of the Dims Bash. For what it was, it could have been a NJ or the MA Mini-Bash that Ned so easily mistook it for. Considering how the final product came out, it probably is a very good thing none of the one-on-one interviews taken at the Dims Bash were shown. Goodness only knows how someone's innocent comment could be misconstrued into a negative sound bite.

Ashley, yes, the same-ol', same-ol' of Taboo was disheartening. But we have no choice about this. We HAVE TO keep at it. I was having a conversation elsewhere about how some states are including body size in policy statement about discrimination and negative behaviors. Is it a shame that has to be made law? Yes. Is it a drop in the bucket for all of the BS we still have to deal with daily? Yes. But it's a drop we didn't have before and it's step in the right direction for us. Changes never happen without someone first speaking up. Silence gives them the consent to keep talking down to use, mistreating us as second class citizens or worse totally ignore our basic needs as human simply we're physically so much of one. I don't remember whose sig it is here, but the words are perfect "Because I'm more of a person, doesn't make me less of one." We have to keep speaking, and yelling, and screaming as much as possible, not only until we are heard, but actually listened to.


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## Tmhays87 (Jan 21, 2010)

> ...and the girl in the red dress putting on her makeup was Big Cutie Stephenie.



Not that anybody who didn't already know that could tell, thanks to this craptastic show's poor production. :doh: Oh well, at least my baby looked damn good in her anonymous, up-close cameo 



> Should we learn our lesson and just decline all further publicity or should we continue trying to be heard? Honestly, I'd like to hear opinions here. I'll withhold my own for now. So where do we go from here?



OneWickedAngel already said it, but I agree with her - we have to keep trying. If we don't, instead of getting a little bit of the positive message out, we'll get none. Pride is about showing your confidence and positive self-image despite how it may be interpreted or misconstrued. If even one person thinks better of fat people because of our willingness to put ourselves out there positively, then it's worth it to me 



> I suggest those that do public appearances, as a size acceptance advocate, make sure as to what their interview will entail and/or how the interviewer will portray their character.



I'm sure that most, if not all, who agree to these appearances do this. I know I did when they interviewed Steph and me, because I was wary of the same old song and dance. I guess our interviews were just a bit too fat-positive because they didn't air, even in some chopped-up, misleading form. Bottom line is they can make a program say pretty much whatever they want it to in the production/editing phase. There's no way of really knowing what the finished product will be when they film you or interview you. As I opined above, I think all we can do is keep a smile on our faces, maintain a positive message and hope for the best.


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## Rowan (Jan 21, 2010)

Ned Sonntag said:


> NatGeo had one of the voice-guys who narrate trailers for action-adventure movies narrating the thing to generate maximum anxiety:doh:... I enjoyed the contrast between the two medical pundits: the creepy lisping guy who was terrified at the whole prospect vs the grinning bearded guy who saw some positive aspects... In the Monroe LA beauty-contest the glossy-lipped ultraglam J.Lo girl who inexplicably lost was awesome and I LOVED the short AfricanAmerican girl in the middle in the gold dress... who was the lady at the Big Cuties dance in the red dress putting on makeup in the powder-room? Wow. All our Boston goddesses photographed very well but Rowan even with hair back and glasses on was absolutely riveting:bow: in her few seconds of screen-time. I hope this at least leads to more character-parts in cop shows for our Paysite Goddesses ...we REALLY need to get them onto some SyFy Network shows as the wave Of The Future!!!!!!!!!!!



Thank you much darlin


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## indy500tchr (Jan 21, 2010)

Tmhays87 said:


> *sniip* I guess our interviews were just a bit too fat-positive because they didn't air, even in some chopped-up, misleading form. Bottom line is they can make a program say pretty much whatever they want it to in the production/editing phase. There's no way of really knowing what the finished product will be when they film you or interview you. As I opined above, I think all we can do is keep a smile on our faces, maintain a positive message and hope for the best.



Same here. Guess they didn't want to see anymore fatties besides Didi happy with who they are! Oh well maybe someday. I did enjoy seeing all the familiar faces getting their groove on though! 

I thought the show was just Meh. Nothing new or exciting.


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## superodalisque (Jan 21, 2010)

Tooz said:


> I really don't get how anyone would honestly be surprised it would be different from the norm.



i don't quite get it myself. but, the producer or whoever she was that was there sounded very level headed and sympathetic so i can imagine how anyone could be led to believe that this one would be different. but having seen some of the other Taboo shows and thinking of the concept behind taboo i avoided the cameras like the plague. i had a feeling as well that they really wouldn't spend all that much time talking to dimsfolk anyway because they'd sound much too normal natural and happy. it wouldn't be very taboo if fat folk were easy to relate to. Diedre was great but they still managed to take at least some of her ooommmph away by the way they seemed to edit her into the rest of the program with all of those famous somber voiceovers.


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## butch (Jan 22, 2010)

To answer your question Ashley, I do think we have to speak up whenever we have the opportunity, even if we know the result will be something like the Taboo episode (fwiw, Fox owns the NatGeo channel). As OWA points out, 'obesity' is increasinly a public policy issue, which means that if we don't speak up, the future for fat people could be very Orwellian, in that we'll all be forced into 'wellness' plans that only use weight loss as a marker of health, and is explicitly invested in eradicating all fat everywhere. If you're at all a beliver of body size diversity, regardless of how you feel about fatness and health, you should be very wary of this wholesale push into the government regulating the appropriate sizes bodies must be. 

In other news, The First Lady's cause for 2010? Childhood Obesity. Obama takes on Obesity, and so this governmental need to control and police body size is now being lead by a branch of the Exceutive Office.


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## Tad (Jan 22, 2010)

I'm thinking that maybe the best thing is to encourage as much coverage as possible....sure at first it will be 90% or more the same-old-same-old....but that gets old after a while, and media thrives on what is fresh (or at least seems to be). Eventually the shock value of "OMG fatties who don't apologize for being fat and people who don't think they are ugly pigs!!!!" will wear out and more coverage will take different angles on it, just to differentiate themselves.

And in the meantime, some people who watch it will have never even had a hint before this that anyone could find fat attractive, or could be fat and content about it, and that may lead some of them to investigate more when they would not otherwise have done so.

(or at least, so I imagine.....)


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## superodalisque (Jan 22, 2010)

one day maybe groups like NAAFA etc.. will collect funds and make thier own programming and PSAs. i know i'd donate for that. if we keep relying on everyone else to tell our story they are always going to get it wrong. maybe the real answer is to get in gear and do our own thing. as long as we are doing commentary on the work of people who don't have our interests at heart instead of creating our own we are always going to have the same problem. i can envision us doing what the black community has done with BET etc... where is our FET? where are our historical documentaries and health shows seen through our own eyes? why aren't NAAFA meetings on C-SPAN. a lot of things are free but we aren't taking advantage of it. that might be more effective than waiting on someone to do the right thing.


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## LillyBBBW (Jan 22, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> one day maybe groups like NAAFA etc.. will collect funds and make thier own programming and PSAs. i know i'd donate for that. if we keep relying on everyone else to tell our story they are always going to get it wrong. maybe the real answer is to get in gear and do our own thing. as long as we are doing commentary on the work of people who don't have our interests at heart instead of creating our own we are always going to have the same problem. i can envision us doing what the black community has done with BET etc... where is our FET? where are our historical documentaries and health shows seen through our own eyes? why aren't NAAFA meetings on C-SPAN. a lot of things are free but we aren't taking advantage of it. that might be more effective than waiting on someone to do the right thing.



I couldn't agree more.


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## Fat.n.sassy (Jan 22, 2010)

ThatFatGirl said:


> Potentially interesting program with a couple of familiar faces airs this Wednesday, January 20 at 10 pm Eastern on National Geographic channel.
> 
> "Taboo: Fat"




Shoot! I missed it!


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## calauria (Jan 22, 2010)

OneWickedAngel said:


> Other than the quick shots of folks dancing there is nothing else of the Dims Bash. For what it was, it could have been a NJ or the MA Mini-Bash that Ned so easily mistook it for. Considering how the final product came out, it probably is a very good thing none of the one-on-one interviews taken at the Dims Bash were shown. Goodness only knows how someone's innocent comment could be misconstrued into a negative sound bite.
> 
> Ashley, yes, the same-ol', same-ol' of Taboo was disheartening. But we have no choice about this. We HAVE TO keep at it. I was having a conversation elsewhere about how some states are including body size in policy statement about discrimination and negative behaviors. Is it a shame that has to be made law? Yes. Is it a drop in the bucket for all of the BS we still have to deal with daily? Yes. But it's a drop we didn't have before and it's step in the right direction for us. Changes never happen without someone first speaking up. Silence gives them the consent to keep talking down to use, mistreating us as second class citizens or worse totally ignore our basic needs as human simply we're physically so much of one. I don't remember whose sig it is here, but the words are perfect "Because I'm more of a person, doesn't make me less of one." We have to keep speaking, and yelling, and screaming as much as possible, not only until we are heard, but actually listened to.



Yeah!! There are more of us than there are of them!!


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## calauria (Jan 22, 2010)

butch said:


> To answer your question Ashley, I do think we have to speak up whenever we have the opportunity, even if we know the result will be something like the Taboo episode (fwiw, Fox owns the NatGeo channel). As OWA points out, 'obesity' is increasinly a public policy issue, which means that if we don't speak up, the future for fat people could be very Orwellian, in that we'll all be forced into 'wellness' plans that only use weight loss as a marker of health, and is explicitly invested in eradicating all fat everywhere. If you're at all a beliver of body size diversity, regardless of how you feel about fatness and health, you should be very wary of this wholesale push into the government regulating the appropriate sizes bodies must be.
> 
> In other news, The First Lady's cause for 2010? Childhood Obesity. Obama takes on Obesity, and so this governmental need to control and police body size is now being lead by a branch of the Exceutive Office.



I know, I was so very disappointed in Michelle.


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## calauria (Jan 22, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> one day maybe groups like NAAFA etc.. will collect funds and make thier own programming and PSAs. i know i'd donate for that. if we keep relying on everyone else to tell our story they are always going to get it wrong. maybe the real answer is to get in gear and do our own thing. as long as we are doing commentary on the work of people who don't have our interests at heart instead of creating our own we are always going to have the same problem. i can envision us doing what the black community has done with BET etc... where is our FET? where are our historical documentaries and health shows seen through our own eyes? why aren't NAAFA meetings on C-SPAN. a lot of things are free but we aren't taking advantage of it. that might be more effective than waiting on someone to do the right thing.



We should very well do that!! I know there is enough money, intelligence, skill and creativity to do just that!!


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## D_A_Bunny (Jan 22, 2010)

I think that until the entire production of a show is made by fat positive folks, it is never going to be truly fat positive. Everyone on board would need to know that the direction of the show was to show "the fat" in a positive light. Then they would have no problem showing the interviews and happy times. 

The producer from Taboo was trying to get hubby and I to do an interview and let me say that I really did think that based on what she was saying that it actually had a chance of being less "omg, look at the fat ones" than other shows. Sadly, based on the responses here, this is not true. So, I am very glad that our time and hopes were not wasted by giving her an interview, because then I would be really ticked off. And since they apparently didn't use much if any of the interviews, why did they do them anyway? Just to waste people's time?


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## Paquito (Jan 22, 2010)

butch said:


> In other news, The First Lady's cause for 2010? Childhood Obesity. Obama takes on Obesity, and so this governmental need to control and police body size is now being lead by a branch of the Exceutive Office.



That's disappointing, I really loved what she was doing last year.


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## moore2me (Jan 23, 2010)

Fat.n.sassy said:


> Shoot! I missed it!



One more time, 

Two more repeats of Taboo: Fat will be on

-Sunday January 1/24 at 3 PM Central Standard Time and

-On Wednesday 1/27 at 5 PM Central Standard Time. :bounce::bounce::bounce:


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## Sweet Tooth (Jan 23, 2010)

I only watched the last 20 minutes or so of it. I was annoyed with how the fat-positive side was portrayed [partying, dancing, casual, and then the eating close up shot, etc] in comparison to the anti-obesity peeps [serious, "credible" doctors and experts intoning with apocalyptic voices, blah blah blah]. However, I do know that, back when I was first drawn to size acceptance, any portrayal of fat people in a positive light was like a cool drink of water to my parched self-esteem. We're all looking at it as people who crossed over that line to some extent. Some people are still out there having no clue that fat could in any way be positive. For them, a show like that could be a watershed moment.

On a far less serious note... if National Geographic got its reputation for showing topless women... well, I think the best thing we could do for size acceptance would be for them to take pictures of our women topless. Think about it... big beautiful real breasts? We'd get all the 10 year old boys trying to sneak a peek. LOL :bounce:


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## Ned Sonntag (Jan 23, 2010)

The narration referred to Size Acceptance as a "Counterculture"... that's totally copped from my 21st-century postings here on Dimz...:doh::doh::doh:


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## StaySafeTonight (Jan 26, 2010)

Ashley said:


> You know, I think we all hoped that NatGeo would do us a solid and not produce the same fat show that we've seen over and over and over, but they didn't. The show was incredibly fat negative, on the whole, and even those glimpses of positivity (Deidra's segment, Dims Bash, Miss Plus pageant) were marred by somber voiceovers about how much of a drain fat people are on the healthcare system and how fat acceptance probably shouldn't be encouraged.
> 
> So, my friends and I were having a discussion after we watched the show about future action when we (the collective we, as out-loud fat people and FAs) are asked to do this sort of interview or be filmed for a show like this. Should we learn our lesson and just decline all further publicity or should we continue trying to be heard? Honestly, I'd like to hear opinions here. I'll withhold my own for now. So where do we go from here?




Frankly, I think it should be all declined unless the intent is absolutely known. I've seen too many shows and segments over the years that I hoped would shine a positive light onto the fat positive community. 

It is a community I know I love, and one I hope in the future to be a much larger part of. I don't like seeing it taken advantage of, and misrepresented by the media like it continually is. Maybe one day a program will come along... hey! I could be a TV producer! It's not too late to change majors! Problem solved


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## LillyBBBW (Jan 26, 2010)

StaySafeTonight said:


> Frankly, I think it should be all declined unless the intent is absolutely known. I've seen too many shows and segments over the years that I hoped would shine a positive light onto the fat positive community.
> 
> It is a community I know I love, and one I hope in the future to be a much larger part of. I don't like seeing it taken advantage of, and misrepresented by the media like it continually is. Maybe one day a program will come along... hey! I could be a TV producer! It's not too late to change majors! Problem solved



I agree. I personally think that all offers should be declined. While it's nice to get ourselves out there, there needs to come a point where we will no longer allow ourselves to be an easy buffoon for any network looking for a showcase. I agree with many others who say we ourselves could tell a better story that best represents us. We already know what we represent to the networks.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jan 26, 2010)

Ashley said:


> You know, I think we all hoped that NatGeo would do us a solid and not produce the same fat show that we've seen over and over and over, but they didn't. The show was incredibly fat negative, on the whole, and even those glimpses of positivity (Deidra's segment, Dims Bash, Miss Plus pageant) were marred by somber voiceovers about how much of a drain fat people are on the healthcare system and how fat acceptance probably shouldn't be encouraged.
> 
> So, my friends and I were having a discussion after we watched the show about future action when we (the collective we, as out-loud fat people and FAs) are asked to do this sort of interview or be filmed for a show like this. Should we learn our lesson and just decline all further publicity or should we continue trying to be heard? Honestly, I'd like to hear opinions here. I'll withhold my own for now. So where do we go from here?



They asked me if I wanted to be interviewed for this thing that they filmed at the bash and I said absolutely not. I think they were a little surprised at the fact that I had no interest in being a part of whatever they were filming. 

These kinds of things are NEVER positive, even when the directors swear they are gonna be. They can't be, because the majority of the advertisements on the networks are for diet products of some sort or another. How on earth can you put a show on tv singing the praises of fat people and follow that with Jenny Craig? The advertisers will pull their ads and the networks lose money. Positive fat messages on TV? Its never gonna happen.


I would rather just see fat people say thanks but no thanks, I can paint a much more positive picture about just how fat people are and live by just living my life.


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## musicman (Jan 26, 2010)

fatgirlflyin said:


> These kinds of things are NEVER positive, even when the directors swear they are gonna be. They can't be, because the majority of the advertisements on the networks are for diet products of some sort or another. How on earth can you put a show on tv singing the praises of fat people and follow that with Jenny Craig? The advertisers will pull their ads and the networks lose money. Positive fat messages on TV? Its never gonna happen.




Bingo! You are one of the few people who understand how the mass media works. The money comes from advertising, and without the ads, there is no money and no TV (or newspaper or radio, etc.). Hence, the sad condition of the mass media. They can call it "journalism" or whatever euphemism they want, but it's all about pimping for the advertisers. It colors everything they do.



fatgirlflyin said:


> I can paint a much more positive picture about just how fat people are and live by just living my life.



You are exactly right about that!


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## mszwebs (Jan 26, 2010)

My apologies, but I don't understand why we would have to be "disappointed" in Michelle Obama for making Childhood Obesity her cause.

Just because we are happy as fat people (define that however it applies or doesn't apply to you) and ADULTS, mind you, doesn't mean that everyone else has to be fat too.

Are we going to sit here and argue that all children should be fat? Because honestly, that's how its coming across. "Oh, Michelle should concentrate on cancer or illiteracy and leave all the fat kids alone. Let them figure it out themselves." 

Are we going to argue that sugary soda and bagged sugary snacks are better for kids than water and some types of juice and an apple? Or that sitting and playing video games is better than something that is going to encourage activity and mobility?


Yeah, OK. Possibility for as Butch put it, "Orwellian" tactics. Sigh. Just like there is with everything else in this country.

But...I don't see how making an effort to improve the meals served in schools, teaching kids about different choices in eating and bettering the physical education programs in schools are going to be harmful (which is basically her plan). If the kid is destined to be fat, Michelle Obama isn't going to change it.


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## DeniseW (Jan 26, 2010)

I totally agree, I was an obese child and my life was hell, I'm not saying every fat kid will have a bad life but it sure doesn't make it any easier. I see nothing wrong with teaching children about good nutrition and trying to get them to move more. When I was a child, I did everything wrong that I possibly could and not a lot of guidance of how to do things the right way. I say Go Michelle!!




mszwebs said:


> My apologies, but I don't understand why we would have to be "disappointed" in Michelle Obama for making Childhood Obesity her cause.
> 
> Just because we are happy as fat people (define that however it applies or doesn't apply to you) and ADULTS, mind you, doesn't mean that everyone else has to be fat too.
> 
> ...


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## superodalisque (Jan 26, 2010)

i agree with the two previous posts and i'll go further. i think childhood obesity should be addressed because often its not something chosen by children. its because adults are out of whack. when kids get to be young adults and can buy thier own foods and make thier own informed choices then its okay. but they shouldn't feel trapped just because thier parents the school system and corporations are putting things out there that takes the choice out of being fat for children. people shouldn't be trapped into being fat they should be fat only because they like it.


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## ThatFatGirl (Jan 26, 2010)

I'd rep you, MsZ, but I repped you for your cute Granny last night and have to spread it around. I wholeheartedly agree with you and Denise. The only thing that made me cringe when I first read about Mrs. Obama's cause was a flashback to my own embarrassing experiences during physical fitness evaluation week in the early '80's (a program Ronald Reagan promoted) and being weighed in front of the classroom and performing terribly in timed one-mile runs and pull-up exercises.

Hopefully, whatever Mrs. Obama promotes will focus on healthier living and will not encourage any embarrassing evaluations or comparisons that might leave a young person feeling inadequate or ashamed of themselves.


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## Paquito (Jan 27, 2010)

ThatFatGirl said:


> I'd rep you, MsZ, but I repped you for your cute Granny last night and have to spread it around. I wholeheartedly agree with you and Denise. The only thing that made me cringe when I first read about Mrs. Obama's cause was a flashback to my own embarrassing experiences during physical fitness evaluation week in the early '80's (a program Ronald Reagan promoted) and *being weighed in front of the classroom and performing terribly in timed one-mile runs and pull-up exercises*.
> 
> Hopefully, whatever Mrs. Obama promotes will focus on healthier living and will not encourage any embarrassing evaluations or comparisons that might leave a young person feeling inadequate or ashamed of themselves.



Unfortunately, that little tradition carried well into the 2000s.


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## butch (Jan 27, 2010)

Here's the thing-I don't have a problem with her doing any and everything to improve the health of all children, including weight loss, if that is needed, but why focus on the fat kids? Plenty of thin kids can benefit from better nutrition, exercise, and the like. When you single out fat kids, you give the thin kids a pass on healthy lifestyles, and you add further stigma to the fat kids by making them feel different and less than. I don't think physical health can be achieved at the expense of mental health, and if my fat childhood has any bearing on the topic, the mental abuse heaped on me in order to make me 'healthy' was worse than any physical effects I had then, or now, because of my fatness.

So, call it focusing on improving all children's nutritional and physical health, and quit using BMI and other arbitrary things to determine if kids are fit. It isn't some cop out to say one can be fat and fit, whether we're talking about kids or adults, and the reality is, most of the stuff that afflicts fat kids is mental abuse because of the stigma attached to fat, and having the First Lady focus on childhood obesity just makes that stigma worse. If kids weren't made to feel ashamed about their bodies, they'd move more, they'd be more fit. Instead, they hide their bodies, and don't participate because they get made fun of. Why doesn't Michelle work on lessinging bullying in children? That would be just as beneficial and healthful to fat kids as focusing on their nutrition would be.


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## Jes (Jan 27, 2010)

mszwebs said:


> My apologies, but I don't understand why we would have to be "disappointed" in Michelle Obama for making Childhood Obesity her cause.
> 
> .



Good post.

I think it's very interesting how different people can have different views on the Taboo ep. I mean, we're all individuals and fat people don't all act the same on any topic, so it's not surprising, but it's been interesting to me to read everyones' comments. And, while I loved Deeds' portion of the show, and thought she was great, she did make the choice to do an eating set for her website when she was being filmed. She opened that door. I'm sure many other things were filmed that day as well, and only when someone else commented did I remember that the producers showed her eating in the restaurant, but I also noted that she was involved in showing an eating set, which does give the home viewer some insight into one angle of fat porn/paysites.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jan 27, 2010)

Agreed. 

I think that childhood obesity should be addressed. I'm fat, I've been fat my whole life. My kids are not and I don't want them to be. Not because I think it would make them less spectacular people but because there are some things in their life that it would make harder. Why would I wish that on my children just because Im a happy fat woman?

Does that mean that I think all fat kids should be taken aside and put through boot camp and crash diets? No. But it can't hurt to make sure that the foods served in their schools is healthy, that they don't have soda machines all over the place. It would be a good idea to also increase funding to the physical fitness programs in the schools that our children attend. 





mszwebs said:


> My apologies, but I don't understand why we would have to be "disappointed" in Michelle Obama for making Childhood Obesity her cause.
> 
> Just because we are happy as fat people (define that however it applies or doesn't apply to you) and ADULTS, mind you, doesn't mean that everyone else has to be fat too.
> 
> ...


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## mszwebs (Jan 27, 2010)

Having been forced to threaten the Milwaukee Public School system with legal action if they further attempted to place me in a Special Education PE class because I was fat during Middle School, as they wanted to, I fully understand the potential detriment to a child's psyche and the stigma that goes along with it.


Childhood obesity isn't something that is just going to go away.

Believe me, I'm not saying diet the kids or anyone else down...and I'm the FIRST one to opt to sit on my ass when I have the opportunity.

However, Mrs. Obama is not proposing to send the fat kids to Siberia. She wants them to go out and play.


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## Jon Blaze (Jan 27, 2010)

butch said:


> Here's the thing-I don't have a problem with her doing any and everything to improve the health of all children, including weight loss, if that is needed, but why focus on the fat kids? Plenty of thin kids can benefit from better nutrition, exercise, and the like. When you single out fat kids, you give the thin kids a pass on healthy lifestyles, and you add further stigma to the fat kids by making them feel different and less than. I don't think physical health can be achieved at the expense of mental health, and if my fat childhood has any bearing on the topic, the mental abuse heaped on me in order to make me 'healthy' was worse than any physical effects I had then, or now, because of my fatness.
> 
> So, call it focusing on improving all children's nutritional and physical health, and quit using BMI and other arbitrary things to determine if kids are fit. It isn't some cop out to say one can be fat and fit, whether we're talking about kids or adults, and the reality is, most of the stuff that afflicts fat kids is mental abuse because of the stigma attached to fat, and having the First Lady focus on childhood obesity just makes that stigma worse. If kids weren't made to feel ashamed about their bodies, they'd move more, they'd be more fit. Instead, they hide their bodies, and don't participate because they get made fun of. Why doesn't Michelle work on lessinging bullying in children? That would be just as beneficial and healthful to fat kids as focusing on their nutrition would be.



THIS, over and over again.


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## superodalisque (Jan 27, 2010)

mszwebs said:


> Having been forced to threaten the Milwaukee Public School system with legal action if they further attempted to place me in a Special Education PE class because I was fat during Middle School, as they wanted to, I fully understand the potential detriment to a child's psyche and the stigma that goes along with it.
> 
> 
> Childhood obesity isn't something that is just going to go away.
> ...



i agree with that. here is a flip side i thought might be interesting. i was fat as a girl and i actually loved PE. i liked the testing even when i was last. they didn't weigh us. no one berated me about losing weight or being fat. so i guess it depends on the school you went to. they did try to encourage me to get my numbers up for performance--like it was a game. they never expected less of me just because i was fat. they never treated me like i should be slow or awkward. i actually got a lot of encouragement and respect because i tried hard and i also respected the ability to be strong and being able to use my body well. i never looked on my coaches teachers etc... as an enemy that way and we always had a good relationship. i really owe those people a lot because i have generally been a very healthy fat person because i wasn't set up for failure. they are part of the reason that i love my body. i think the reason i can work so hard at and benefit from the physical therapy i'm in now is because of that positive experience. they are the reason i'm not at all afraid of a gym. they believed in HAAS way back then and they probably had no idea what NAAFA was. 

i hope thats the spirit they take from Mrs. Obama's initiative in a day when kids don't have recess and they have snack machines in the lunchroom. maybe they can bring some sensibility to it so that fat kids can benefit from it instead of just having it reinforced that they "can't" do things like be active or healthy or even eat quality food just because they happen to be fat. i think that would be falling into a stereotype thats not good for fat kids and doesn't have to be true. being fat doesn't mean that all of your habits have to be bad ones. hopefully washington will have experts who can speak to that since not everyone in the health field or the education field are holding on the the old backward practices of the past. so maybe now there might be more psychological directives aimed particularly at how to handle fat children besides abusing and embarrassing them. at least a discussion and a focus will be taking place that wasn't happening before.

i think maybe there is a focus on fat kids because so many children who are fat are miserable in thier bodies. in general a lot of them feel inept and hopeless in thier bodies. also because there is a need to combat bad practices at home and at school. adults are blaming children for things they have no control over, like the types of groceries they buy, foods they provide or the opportunities for play. focusing on fat children might help society to learn a lot about how health and fat really works together instead of just how they feel it works together. it might help to truly break down some prejudices if we work it right.


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## TheNowhereMan (Jan 27, 2010)

I'm still not sure what to make of it...
It's being rerun right now and I'm flipping back and forth between it and Simpsons. 
I want to watch Deidra's parts though.


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## Zoom (Jan 27, 2010)

TheNowhereMan said:


> I want to watch Deidra's parts though.


Well said.


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## butch (Jan 28, 2010)

Zoom said:


> Well said.



Deidra's bits are the best part of the program, for sure.


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## superodalisque (Jan 28, 2010)

on top of it Deidra's personality and intellect are no slackers either


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## Laura2008 (Jan 28, 2010)

Ughh I missed it! Is this episode being shown online somewhere?


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## MatthewB (Jan 28, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> on top of it Deidra's personality and intellect are no slackers either


That's for sure; where is she, on these boards, anyhow?


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## EtobicokeFA (Feb 2, 2010)

fatgirlflyin said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I think that childhood obesity should be addressed. I'm fat, I've been fat my whole life. My kids are not and I don't want them to be. Not because I think it would make them less spectacular people but because there are some things in their life that it would make harder. Why would I wish that on my children just because Im a happy fat woman?
> 
> Does that mean that I think all fat kids should be taken aside and put through boot camp and crash diets? No. But it can't hurt to make sure that the foods served in their schools is healthy, that they don't have soda machines all over the place. It would be a good idea to also increase funding to the physical fitness programs in the schools that our children attend.




I agree. I would also be in favor of children programs like this if the focus was to ensure that kids get exercise, and good food items. But, unfortunately most or focus on BMI, and kids looks thin.


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## LillyBBBW (Feb 3, 2010)

EtobicokeFA said:


> I agree. I would also be in favor of children programs like this if the focus was to ensure that kids get exercise, and good food items. But, unfortunately most or focus on BMI, and kids looks thin.



I know EtobicokeFA. Physical fitness programs have been a part of school curriculum for ages. This new focus will be very Hansel and Gretel'esque which I don't particularly care for. I'm glad I don't have kids because I would be seriously considering home schooling.


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## Tooz (Feb 3, 2010)

mszwebs said:


> However, Mrs. Obama is not proposing to send the fat kids to Siberia. She wants them to go out and play.



See, here is the thing. What about the fat kids who played and played and played and were STILL fat? That was me. I bristle when talk of childhood obesity comes up because it includes the notion that it is something that can be fixed.

Though I don't doubt it can be for some, I know I was fat and that is just how it was.


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## butch (Feb 3, 2010)

Tooz said:


> See, here is the thing. What about the fat kids who played and played and played and were STILL fat? That was me. I bristle when talk of childhood obesity comes up because it includes the notion that it is something that can be fixed.
> 
> Though I don't doubt it can be for some, I know I was fat and that is just how it was.



That is my experince, too. I was playing football and basketball and soccer and riding my bike all year long, and I was still a fat kid. That is how I first began to put things together, because I could see how fit and active and healthy I was, and yet everyone said I was unhealthy and unfit and going to die. I was doing the same thing my peers were (and my sibling was), and yet they were healthy and I wasn't, even though they would get all kinds of ailments and illnesses that I never did.


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## fatgirlflyin (Feb 3, 2010)

Tooz said:


> See, here is the thing. What about the fat kids who played and played and played and were STILL fat? That was me. I bristle when talk of childhood obesity comes up because it includes the notion that it is something that can be fixed.
> 
> Though I don't doubt it can be for some, I know I was fat and that is just how it was.



I was fortunate in that I didn't have that experience as a fat child. I always just did everything the other kids did and if I couldn't do it as fast I just went at my own pace. 

I don't think childhood obesity is something that can necessarily be fixed, or even that it should be looked upon as something that is fixable, but I think in some cases its avoidable, and I think those avoidable issues should be addressed. Kids should know that its important to move their bodies, they should know that an apple is a better choice for them than a candy bar, water better than soda. These are things that all children, fat or thin would benefit from learning.

I think too many kids live in homes where nutritious, healthy foods are out of the family budget. They live in homes where both parents have to work and often the television or video games is the babysitter. Also, how many neighborhoods are safe enough that kids can go out and play til it gets dark outside? I can remember as a child playing outside until the sun started to go down. I was riding my bike and running through the neighborhood with all the other kids, fat or not. Not too many kids today can do that.


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## superodalisque (Feb 3, 2010)

fatgirlflyin said:


> I was fortunate in that I didn't have that experience as a fat child. I always just did everything the other kids did and if I couldn't do it as fast I just went at my own pace.
> 
> I don't think childhood obesity is something that can necessarily be fixed, or even that it should be looked upon as something that is fixable, but I think in some cases its avoidable, and I think those avoidable issues should be addressed. Kids should know that its important to move their bodies, they should know that an apple is a better choice for them than a candy bar, water better than soda. These are things that all children, fat or thin would benefit from learning.
> 
> I think too many kids live in homes where nutritious, healthy foods are out of the family budget. They live in homes where both parents have to work and often the television or video games is the babysitter. Also, how many neighborhoods are safe enough that kids can go out and play til it gets dark outside? I can remember as a child playing outside until the sun started to go down. I was riding my bike and running through the neighborhood with all the other kids, fat or not. Not too many kids today can do that.



exactly. i hope those issues get brought up. how do we make it safe for children to play and for parents to be able to afford the healthy food thier children need? how do we reinstitute PE and recess that has been cut out of way too many schools? how do we get unhealthy junk food out of the cafeteria? i don't feel its right for us to create situtations where children thin or fat can do nothing else but grow unhealthy just because the rest of us have some point to prove about being fat as an adult. the children aren't responsible for our fight --we are. so no mattter whether the child is fat or not adults should do thier best to provide a healthy environment in terms of exercise and healthy food. basing our decision on the bullying or abuse we may have gone through as children is not enough of a reason to neglect the health of the young. if we're really worried it might be better to remind the people involved now of the mental issues so that they don't mentally abuse children like fat adults may have been as children.

when i was a kid i never thought of myself in terms of obesity. i was just a fat kid who did everything else everyone else did. but i think i would really have felt like a total outsider if i hadn't been healthy. unfortunately i think thats where many fat children are rigth now. i see a whole lot fewer fat kids who are healthy than when i was young. i had fat friends and we used to run around and do PE etc... gasping but we could do it hehe. and we actually enjoyed ourselves. but right now fat children seem a whole lot weaker because there are a whole lot more reasons to remain inactive. when i was young it was the healthy food that was cheap. now its the other way around. i think all of that is making them suffer a whole lot more than a lot of us did growing up. keeping them in a situtation where they are bound to feel bad emotionally and physically just because we might have something to prove would be a mistake and a bit selfish.

i think we need to be really careful about thinking about the reasons we are against the initiative. is it really bad for the children? would we have wanted someone to at least try to help in an environment such as we have now thats a little more enlightened? are we really just looking for some justification for being fat ourselves and thinking we can't change and applying that to other people? what point would there be in being fat if you didn't actually want to be fat? whats wrong with children losing weight who might really want to be thin? its not enough to say i'm fat and i don't like it so you should be fat too. i'm not sure i believe the "i'm against it because people will be emotionally abusive toward these fat children" argument. we already know they face discrimmination already anyway. wouldn't it be better for them to have the adults be responsible for a change instead of having them berate children for things beyond thier control all of the time?


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## butch (Feb 4, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> exactly. i hope those issues get brought up. how do we make it safe for children to play and for parents to be able to afford the healthy food thier children need? how do we reinstitute PE and recess that has been cut out of way too many schools? how do we get unhealthy junk food out of the cafeteria? i don't feel its right for us to create situtations where children thin or fat can do nothing else but grow unhealthy just because the rest of us have some point to prove about being fat as an adult. the children aren't responsible for our fight --we are. so no mattter whether the child is fat or not adults should do thier best to provide a healthy environment in terms of exercise and healthy food. basing our decision on the bullying or abuse we may have gone through as children is not enough of a reason to neglect the health of the young. if we're really worried it might be better to remind the people involved now of the mental issues so that they don't mentally abuse children like fat adults may have been as children.
> 
> when i was a kid i never thought of myself in terms of obesity. i was just a fat kid who did everything else everyone else did. but i think i would really have felt like a total outsider if i hadn't been healthy. unfortunately i think thats where many fat children are rigth now. i see a whole lot fewer fat kids who are healthy than when i was young. i had fat friends and we used to run around and do PE etc... gasping but we could do it hehe. and we actually enjoyed ourselves. but right now fat children seem a whole lot weaker because there are a whole lot more reasons to remain inactive. when i was young it was the healthy food that was cheap. now its the other way around. i think all of that is making them suffer a whole lot more than a lot of us did growing up. keeping them in a situtation where they are bound to feel bad emotionally and physically just because we might have something to prove would be a mistake and a bit selfish.
> 
> i think we need to be really careful about thinking about the reasons we are against the initiative. is it really bad for the children? would we have wanted someone to at least try to help in an environment such as we have now thats a little more enlightened? are we really just looking for some justification for being fat ourselves and thinking we can't change and applying that to other people? what point would there be in being fat if you didn't actually want to be fat? whats wrong with children losing weight who might really want to be thin? its not enough to say i'm fat and i don't like it so you should be fat too. i'm not sure i believe the "i'm against it because people will be emotionally abusive toward these fat children" argument. we already know they face discrimmination already anyway. wouldn't it be better for them to have the adults be responsible for a change instead of having them berate children for things beyond thier control all of the time?



The thing people don't get is, we're not saying "Do nothing because it will damage the self esteem of fat kids," we're saying "Do everything you're going to do about health, nutrition,and fitness, but make it for all kids, fat or thin, and don't single out the fat kids and make them feel like they are 'bad' for feeling fat." Because some thin kids need the exact same information that fat kids, and fat kids don't need the extra layer of shame that goes along with feeling they are the only ones who have 'bad' bodies. In the end, if the initiative is all about behaviors and practices, focus on that only, and leave the body judgements out of it. 

If that happened, more kids who need extra help, fat or thin, would get it, and nobody would have to worry about fat kids getting a knock to their mental health because they weigh more than their peers. I was just reading some statistics yesterday about the ways fat kids are treated in our schools, and it is appalling, they get bullied and ignored by students and staff, even without 'obesity' initiatives that will single them out for negative attention even more.

Believe me, my objection isn't about needing to justify my own fat adult body. It is about speaking up for fat kids like me who didn't have a voice to say that their judgements, and their treatment of me, was damaging and wrong. I say this as someone who was singled out as a young teen and made to go to meetings with all the other fat kids in my school to learn how to lose weight. If that is any indication, these plans won't work too well. The 'star pupil' ended up getting WLS as an adult, fwiw.


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