# I had an epiphany.



## saturdayasusual (Oct 4, 2007)

A few nights ago, Aris and I were walking back to our dorm from a friends apartment. It was late, we were tired, and we really just wanted to get back to go to bed. So, we're minding our own business walking along, and this SUV drives by and a guy randomly leans out the window and shouts something about me being a "fat cunt". I didn't hear all of what he said, but it was definitely something derogatory.

I, personally, found the guy pathetic. But, amazingly, the words didn't phase me at all. It was kind of strange to just experience that though, with no feeling whatsoever. I knew that I was getting more confident and accepting myself the way I am, and learning to love myself, but I guess I didn't realize I'd made it that far yet. A year and a half ago that one comment would have ripped my heart in two. But I've come a long way, and it didn't hurt at all. Definitely a "wow" moment for me.

Aris asked me several times if I was all right, and tried to comfort me because of it. I had to keep telling him I was fine, really, and that he didn't need to worry about me. It felt good to be able to say that and mean it. I didn't have to just say it so I didn't feel belittled by the whole thing. That made me feel accomplished. I don't need to care about what random people think of me.

I told a friend of mine about it. He said, "He was just jealous because you make being fat hot."

My sentiments _exactly_. 

So what about you guys? Has anyone had a "wow" moment, where you realize that just because someone feels like making an ass out of themselves, you don't have to feel bad for it?


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## Allie Cat (Oct 4, 2007)

A bit of a side note, I was driving on Wayne Ave. the other day and I think I saw you guys.

=Divals


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## imfree (Oct 4, 2007)

Hahaha, I don't think Divals believes in HUGGZZ, either. JMO


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## Dr. Feelgood (Oct 4, 2007)

saturdayasusual said:


> I told a friend of mine about it. He said, "He was just jealous because you make being fat hot."
> 
> My sentiments _exactly_.



I think your friend's (and your) assessment are right on the money. But I think the jerk's comment was not aimed at you as much as at _Aris_. Jerk (as I will call him) has doubtless been raised with the fratboy value that it is shameful to be seen with a fat girl. He sees you, and he's attracted to you; that's bad enough! But now here's this obviously normal, cool-looking guy (the kind he'd like to be) clearly enjoying your company and thereby _violating every social norm Jerk believes in_! So another male is threatening him, and he knows in that situation you gotta pound your chest. So he does.


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## Allie Cat (Oct 4, 2007)

imfree said:


> Hahaha, I don't think Divals believes in HUGGZZ, either. JMO



...what?


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## imfree (Oct 4, 2007)

Divals said:


> ...what?


 Nothing bad meant, Divals, just some good natured kidding.


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## LillyBBBW (Oct 4, 2007)

Yesterday I was in a shoe store trying on shoes. There in the back was a pleasant young woman sitting on one of the square stools with the slanted foot mirror. She was freindly enough but she had her daughter with her who looked to be about 3 I guess. She looked up at me with huge quizzical eyes and said, "She's big!" Her young mother was mortified, laughed nervously and said, "Emily stop!" I just chuckled and said, "It's ok. No, no really -- it's okay." The little girl continued to say it over and over and the mother was all flustered and embarassed. I just looked at the girl, smiled and confirmed her suspicions, "Yes, I am big." She coutinued to say it and roll it around in her mind over and over again while her mom and I tried on shoes. The mother spent the whole time having to ask Emily to get down from there, stop running, get over here, bla bla bla, and was unbelievabley uncomfortable with her daughter's refusal to stop reaffirming that I was a big woman. Every now and then the girl would say it again and finally I told the girl, "Sweetie, I'm ok with you saying that but if you say it to others they might not like that." That was the last she spoke of it again, but she was a perfectly pleasant little girl -- outgoing, talkative, curious. At one point she made an attempt to ram herself into me. I guess she wondered if she would bounce or wondered what I felt like. She missed and stumbled, almost falling to the floor. It was all just something new to her I guess, she's only 3 years old.

Many many many years ago had that happened to me I would have been humiliated and I would have left that store shaking and embarassed and would have bought four cases of Slim Fast on the way home. Today, it's just a thing.


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## Shosh (Oct 4, 2007)

I am sorry that you had to experience this. What a bloody pig this man sounds. I am glad that you are not taking this on board also.
These kind of people are real low lives, and karma will catch up with them, don't worry about that.
Be happy. 

Susannah


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## gangstadawg (Oct 4, 2007)

wow thats fucked up. i was up at ferris state (big rapids michigan) about a month ago helping my friend move into her dorm when some dill hole called me a ugly ni***r from his scion car window. i wanted to beat the living shit out of his skinny ass but im not sure how the police are in that area. he was lucky he wasnt in detroit where i know the police would not give a damn.


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## gangstadawg (Oct 4, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> Yesterday I was in a shoe store trying on shoes. There in the back was a pleasant young woman sitting on one of the square stools with the slanted foot mirror. She was freindly enough but she had her daughter with her who looked to be about 3 I guess. She looked up at me with huge quizzical eyes and said, "She's big!" Her young mother was mortified, laughed nervously and said, "Emily stop!" I just chuckled and said, "It's ok. No, no really -- it's okay." The little girl continued to say it over and over and the mother was all flustered and embarassed. I just looked at the girl, smiled and confirmed her suspicions, "Yes, I am big." She coutinued to say it and roll it around in her mind over and over again while her mom and I tried on shoes. The mother spent the whole time having to ask Emily to get down from there, stop running, get over here, bla bla bla, and was unbelievabley uncomfortable with her daughter's refusal to stop reaffirming that I was a big woman. Every now and then the girl would say it again and finally I told the girl, "Sweetie, I'm ok with you saying that but if you say it to others they might not like that." That was the last she spoke of it again, but she was a perfectly pleasant little girl -- outgoing, talkative, curious. At one point she made an attempt to ram herself into me. I guess she wondered if she would bounce or wondered what I felt like. She missed and stumbled, almost falling to the floor. It was all just something new to her I guess, she's only 3 years old.
> 
> Many many many years ago had that happened to me I would have been humiliated and I would have left that store shaking and embarassed and would have bought four cases of Slim Fast on the way home. Today, it's just a thing.


well you are big. big and beautiful lilly.


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## gangstadawg (Oct 4, 2007)

Susannah said:


> I am sorry that you had to experience this. What a bloody pig this man sounds. I am glad that you are not taking this on board also.
> These kind of people are real low lives, and karma will catch up with them, don't worry about that.
> Be happy.
> 
> Susannah


yep karma is a bitch. what goes around comes around.


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## Shosh (Oct 4, 2007)

gangstadawg said:


> wow thats fucked up. i was up at ferris state (big rapids michigan) about a month ago helping my friend move into her dorm when some dill hole called me a ugly ni***r from his scion car window. i wanted to beat the living shit out of his skinny ass but im not sure how the police are in that area. he was lucky he wasnt in detroit where i know the police would give a damn.



That is also awful. Sorry you had to hear that repulsive, horrible word and sentiment Trey. What a pathetic excuse for a person, an absolute disgrace.

Shosh


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## Spanky (Oct 4, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> Yesterday I was in a shoe store trying on shoes. There in the back was a pleasant young woman sitting on one of the square stools with the slanted foot mirror. She was freindly enough but she had her daughter with her who looked to be about 3 I guess. She looked up at me with huge quizzical eyes and said, "She's big!" Her young mother was mortified, laughed nervously and said, "Emily stop!" I just chuckled and said, "It's ok. No, no really -- it's okay." The little girl continued to say it over and over and the mother was all flustered and embarassed. I just looked at the girl, smiled and confirmed her suspicions, "Yes, I am big." She coutinued to say it and roll it around in her mind over and over again while her mom and I tried on shoes. The mother spent the whole time having to ask Emily to get down from there, stop running, get over here, bla bla bla, and was unbelievabley uncomfortable with her daughter's refusal to stop reaffirming that I was a big woman. Every now and then the girl would say it again and finally I told the girl, "Sweetie, I'm ok with you saying that but if you say it to others they might not like that." That was the last she spoke of it again, but she was a perfectly pleasant little girl -- outgoing, talkative, curious. At one point she made an attempt to ram herself into me. I guess she wondered if she would bounce or wondered what I felt like. She missed and stumbled, almost falling to the floor. It was all just something new to her I guess, she's only 3 years old.
> 
> Many many many years ago had that happened to me I would have been humiliated and I would have left that store shaking and embarassed and would have bought four cases of Slim Fast on the way home. Today, it's just a thing.




Lilly, no matter about your body. You really have your head screwed on EXACTLY RIGHT!! You were so good in that situation for so many reasons. Wow! Major league kudos. :bow: :bow: :bow:


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## LillyBBBW (Oct 4, 2007)

gangstadawg said:


> well you are big. big and beautiful lilly.



Trey you kick ass even without kicking ass! :wubu:


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## gangstadawg (Oct 4, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> Trey you kick ass even without kicking ass! :wubu:


thanks lilly


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## mediaboy (Oct 4, 2007)

Just out of curriosity, has any one ever had a positive encounter with a fraternity brother?

Having asked that question, why is it still a desirable thing to join a fraternity so you can live in a house vested in prejudice, debauchery, and ignorance?


On topic, I would like to congratulate you for your resolve in the face of such insufferable idiots. 

There have been studies that show the more education you recieve, the more tolerant you are and yet, this sort of prejudice probably occurs on a daily basis at campuses across the country.


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## Spanky (Oct 4, 2007)

mediaboy said:


> Just out of curriosity, has any one ever had a positive encounter with a fraternity brother?
> 
> Having asked that question, why is it still a desirable thing to join a fraternity so you can live in a house vested in prejudice, debauchery, and ignorance?



I am assuming that this generalization is pointed at straight, white males, at least middle class, and college educated. Well, IT'S OK THEN. 

Your statement already hits two of the three descriptive nouns you yourself use for describing what is wrong with fraternities. 

Jeez.


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## Jes (Oct 4, 2007)

i've had a coupla positive encounters with frat boys. all at the same time.

no, i jest.

My response to the OP is not specifically fat related. It's more like...not taking it personally when I say or do things that would've made me feel awkward not that long ago. A sort of: well, if you're not interested (in whatever it is), then that's on you. I used to always feel it was on me. I still feel that a lot of the time. I'm working hard not to feel it.


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## TallFatSue (Oct 4, 2007)

mediaboy said:


> There have been studies that show the more education you recieve, the more tolerant you are and yet, this sort of prejudice probably occurs on a daily basis at campuses across the country.


Unfortunately there are plenty of well-educated boors in the world. Pay them no mind.

Mob mentality plays a role too. Put a bunch of rowdy guys in a car, and they'll think it's so cool to lean out the window and insult anybody, with little fear of consequences. Although I did have the satisfaction in my own college days of seeing one such idiot lean out of a car to yell at someone and get beaned by a low-lying tree branch! I felt sorry for the tree.


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## Littleghost (Oct 4, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> At one point she made an attempt to ram herself into me. I guess she wondered if she would bounce or wondered what I felt like. She missed and stumbled, almost falling to the floor. It was all just something new to her I guess, she's only 3 years old.


Dare to dream.


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## Shosh (Oct 4, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> Yesterday I was in a shoe store trying on shoes. There in the back was a pleasant young woman sitting on one of the square stools with the slanted foot mirror. She was freindly enough but she had her daughter with her who looked to be about 3 I guess. She looked up at me with huge quizzical eyes and said, "She's big!" Her young mother was mortified, laughed nervously and said, "Emily stop!" I just chuckled and said, "It's ok. No, no really -- it's okay." The little girl continued to say it over and over and the mother was all flustered and embarassed. I just looked at the girl, smiled and confirmed her suspicions, "Yes, I am big." She coutinued to say it and roll it around in her mind over and over again while her mom and I tried on shoes. The mother spent the whole time having to ask Emily to get down from there, stop running, get over here, bla bla bla, and was unbelievabley uncomfortable with her daughter's refusal to stop reaffirming that I was a big woman. Every now and then the girl would say it again and finally I told the girl, "Sweetie, I'm ok with you saying that but if you say it to others they might not like that." That was the last she spoke of it again, but she was a perfectly pleasant little girl -- outgoing, talkative, curious. At one point she made an attempt to ram herself into me. I guess she wondered if she would bounce or wondered what I felt like. She missed and stumbled, almost falling to the floor. It was all just something new to her I guess, she's only 3 years old.
> 
> Many many many years ago had that happened to me I would have been humiliated and I would have left that store shaking and embarassed and would have bought four cases of Slim Fast on the way home. Today, it's just a thing.



You handled that with real grace Lilly. Working with children so closely I know how their little minds work. They are not malicious like adults can be, and they are just kind of curious about each and every little or big thing.
They do not censor themselves and they speak their own truth.

I have children say hilarious things to me all the time. A four year old recently was complaining bitterly that another child was not "Respecting" him! 

Susannah


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## Ned Sonntag (Oct 4, 2007)

imfree said:


> Nothing bad meant, Divals, just some good natured kidding.


 Nature is the devil's playground.:batting:


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## HottiMegan (Oct 4, 2007)

I have grown up a lot over the last few years. Comments like that dont come at me often but it doesnt hurt me anymore. I just wish i had a quick wit to have a good comeback 

As for little kids. I used to be hurt when they'd talk about me being fat. Sometimes i'd tell them i swallowed a pillow. I tell my niece and nephew who have a fat phobic mom that i didnt eat my veggies as a kid and that's waht made me fat. Kids dont bother me since they're just curious.


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## imfree (Oct 4, 2007)

Ned Sonntag said:


> Nature is the devil's playground.:batting:



Hahaha!!!, ya' got me, Ned!(imfree gets his smoking a$$ 
up one more time.)


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## mediaboy (Oct 4, 2007)

Spanky said:


> I am assuming that this generalization is pointed at straight, white males, at least middle class, and college educated. Well, IT'S OK THEN.
> 
> Your statement already hits two of the three descriptive nouns you yourself use for describing what is wrong with fraternities.
> 
> Jeez.



Good point, I retract my statement in light of being a hypocrit.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Oct 4, 2007)

TallFatSue said:


> Unfortunately there are plenty of well-educated boors in the world. Pay them no mind.
> 
> Mob mentality plays a role too. Put a bunch of rowdy guys in a car, and they'll think it's so cool to lean out the window and insult anybody, with little fear of consequences. Although I did have the satisfaction in my own college days of seeing one such idiot lean out of a car to yell at someone and get beaned by a low-lying tree branch! I felt sorry for the tree.



If it won't offend you, Sue, I'd like to amend your first statement to "there are plenty of uneducated boors with college degrees."

As to mob mentality, here's something I've noticed*: in any group of adolescent males, there is a pecking order. It is usually the lowest-ranking member of the group who yells drive-by insults. I believe this is protective behavior designed to forestall teasing by the higher-ranking males ("Ah reckon y'all lahk them fat gals, don't yew, Cletus?").

*These observations have all been made on Okie bubbas; some behavioral variation may occur in more advanced hominids.


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## TallFatSue (Oct 4, 2007)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> If it won't offend you, Sue, I'd like to amend your first statement to "there are plenty of uneducated boors with college degrees."


Plenty of uneducated boors with college degrees. Say ... I like that! May I use it? I've worked with more than a few of those over the years.


Dr. Feelgood said:


> As to mob mentality, here's something I've noticed: in any group of adolescent males, there is a pecking order. It is usually the lowest-ranking member of the group who yells drive-by insults. I believe this is protective behavior designed to forestall teasing by the higher-ranking males ("Ah reckon y'all lahk them fat gals, don't yew, Cletus?").


Sounds reasonable to me. My husband just told me a story which bears this out, and shows that rowdy guys don't only pick on girls. About 5 years ago Art was in West Lafayette, Indiana for some engineering project. As he walked to a pizza place near Purdue University, somebody in a passing car emptied the contents of a big soft drink cup at him. Art saw the cola shower coming and knew it would miss him, so he pretended not to even notice. Can't think why they'd single him out, other than a target of opportunity.

A couple minutes later, one of Art's coworkers joined him at the pizza place and said he saw it from the parking lot. He said the rowdies' car stopped at the next traffic light, and it sounded like the other guys in the car were pounding the cola bombardier. "You f---ing threw my Pepsi out the window!" "And you couldn't even f---ing hit that guy on the sidewalk!"

Methinx sometimes the best reaction is no reaction whatsoever.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Oct 4, 2007)

That's pretty awesome that you just let it roll off your back. People like that are assholes and if you weren't fat, they'd just find another reason to be pricks to you and people like you, so yeah, no need to pay them any mind. 

 I always like reading stories like this. I guess this whole FA/BBW scene is effective.


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## bluewine (Oct 4, 2007)

Sounds like you just have a llot of self confidence. When I was a kid a remember another kid asking a kid that was playing with me why he was playing with a "N word". All I remeber thinking was that I thought I was doing anyone a favor by paling with them or giving them the time of day for that matter. I was 7. I'm pretty much the same at 53.


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## Keb (Oct 4, 2007)

When I was in Japan, I was walking along the street and this boy who looked about 6 passed by me. He stopped in his tracks, looked up at me, and said "Ookii," (which means "big") in this astonished voice. I grinned, patted him on the head, and replied "Chiisai" which is the opposite, indicating that he was pretty small. 

Somehow that made me grin all day long. Kids are easy. Grownups who aren't sure what to make of the fact that you don't fit into their neat boxes of categorization are more difficult to deal with.


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## JerseyGirl07093 (Oct 4, 2007)

It never ceases to amaze me that there are people like this in the world. People who would just try and hurt random strangers for no reason at all. How horrible their own lives must be. Just sad.


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## ppinkie (Oct 4, 2007)

Its funny, I dont really see myself as fat. Apparently, Im obese according to my Drs. and so on, since Im only 5'2" and 220 lbs, but I really dont feel that way. 

Anyway, I always feel weird when people describe me as "overweight" or plus size. I just dont view myself that way. 

I have had a similar instance where some teenage boys were driving by, and shouted, "Fat Bitch!" at me. I honnestly looked behind me, looking for who they were screaming at, not realizing it was me. 

Ive had strangers suggest that I, walk rather than take a ride, because I "need the exersize", blah, blah, blah. 

My point....Im not sure if I have had a simmular ephiphany and totally accept my body or Im in complete denial. lol


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## irish_redhead (Oct 5, 2007)

I've had similar experiences. In fact, my most recent was on a message forum I'm at regularly. Some random guy was being an asshole to a bunch of people, and deliberately inciting flames. Since I just can't leave well enough alone, I put my mad googling skills to work and posted an extremely dorky picture of his from his Myspace album. 

This single action (combined with a smart assed comment or 2) sent him flying into a rage - he sent me harrassing PMs on Myspace and on the forum, which I promptly reported (and yes, replied too... likeI said, I can't leave well enough alone), then I blocked him. Frustrated, he decided to exact his revenge that he threatened. 

His revenge was lame, even by internet standards. He proceeded to repost a pic (that I had previously posted myself), called me every name for fat in the book, and made all sorts of stereotypical insults. Several times. 

His rant was posted in several forums on the board - he spammed them overnight. 

Once upon a time, it may have stung a bit. But damn - yes I was drunk and tired and not looking my best - but that pic was with a good friend taken at a party I have fond memories of. I laughed myself silly at just how upset he was, and at the responses to him. I received PMs from friends apologizing for his behaviour... while they may not believe me that I wasn't upset, I hope they do... 

That whole event prompted my mom and I to discuss confidence etc. as causing me to be a target. I also bought an adorable fridge magnet (I'm not really a bitch - I just play one in your life) that is now my avatar there. While the insults he hurled don't bother me, I just find it pathetic that he couldn't be more creative... I've been called a Femi-nazi Bitch, Ilsa - She cow of the SS... all sorts of names online. Why? I'm a target - yes I'm fat, so they think it hurts me to call me that. I'm also one of very few women on this forum, and I'm also very outspoken... I don't deny that I may elicit some of these responses - but why state the obvious? Come up with something different if you want to insult me. 

While I also don't believe that a reaction is a good idea in some instances, I do like to call people out on their behaviour. If someone is TRYING to get a reaction, I don't give them one. On the other hand, if someone is making snarky comments while whispering to their friends, I'll be the first to call them on it. It's far more embarrassing to them when you do so. I've had complete strangers laugh and applaud me for taking on a couple of high school cunts who spent the whole bus ride making snarky comments and giggling at passengers at the front of the bus. After that episode, they quickly shut up, looked ashamed and got off at the next stop.


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## asho (Oct 5, 2007)

Having been fat all my life I too have had many similar experiences. But thinking back most of them were in my teens and up into my early twenty's. I think the reason for this is in the past I felt worthless, disgusting and completely unattractive. When you feel and think like this people pick up on it. Nasty hurtful people almost pray on you because they can sense your venerability. I have had men shout out those 'fat cow' comments from cars, heard poeple talk about me on bus's and trains ( as if because I was fat I couldn't hear them!!). Total strangers feel as if it's ok to just walk up to you in the street etc and tell you about different diets or their friends sucsessful diets stories. Or how pretty I was and what a pity it was I was so fat. I still have never figures out why people seem to have no respect for me as a fat person. They assume that because i am fat, I can't hear them talk about me, see them staring or laughing at me. Everytime this happened I just felt worse. I would only go home to eat more. I stayed home eating, getting bigger. 

Then when I was about 22 I started a course. It was surposed to be a get back to work course but it turned out to be so much more. Over the next six months I did things I never thought I could do. Abseiling, rock climbing, public speaking, going to nite clubs. Made loads of new friends. I had my first kiss. I had my first big crush. My first boyfriend. I lost weight. Not through dieting but just because I was more active but most importantly because it felt good to me. I was still very much a bbw but it was ok. 

But the biggest change was inside me. I realise that being fat didn't stop me from doing anything. That if I wanted something, I could get it. If I wanted to do something I could do it. When I went out I walked with confidence. I held my head up high. And guess what? The comments, looks and stare's stop. Or maybe they didn't, but I just didn't care what people thought of me. I just stopped lisening for them or looking at people as they walked towards me to see how they reacted if they noticed me. 

Today I'm happy. If I was to be honest I would have to say I don't like being fat. If the was a pill I could take and I could wake up tomorrow and be skinny I would take it. But the fact is being fat has made me the person I am. And I like who I am. If you don't love yourself how can you except someone else to love you? If you don't think sexy or attractive how can you except someone else to think it? 

BIG IS BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## TraciJo67 (Oct 5, 2007)

irish_redhead said:


> I've had complete strangers laugh and applaud me for taking on a couple of high school cunts who spent the whole bus ride making snarky comments and giggling at passengers at the front of the bus. After that episode, they quickly shut up, looked ashamed and got off at the next stop.



Ouch at the "c" word, though I understand the reasoning behind its usage. 

I can usually ignore morons who have targeted my weight (especially kids). But last year, a trio of giggly young women dressed in maid uniforms watched my mother and I pass by them. They looked at both of us and said (in a language they thought I wouldn't understand) "there goes dumb white fatty and fatter". One girl also made rapid eating motions with her hands, just to be sure that we REALLY understood that they were making fun of us. My mother was walking in front of me, and I could literally see how hurt she was just by watching her shoulders slump as she passed them. I saw red  I waited until my mother turned the corner, and turned on them. My response was actually very far outside the scope of what they'd said/done to us (I was frankly a little ashamed of myself). At first, they looked horrified and embarrassed, but I heard the giggling start up as I walked away. So I turned around and reported them to the hotel management. While I'm not sure what action was taken, I never saw the vicious little twats again. I'd like to think that they were fired. And that the only other employment they could find was cleaning the endlessly filthy toilets at roadside stops.


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## stefanie (Oct 5, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> Yesterday I was in a shoe store trying on shoes ...



It sounds like you handled that really well (a lot better than mom.)

When I was a young kid, I probably caused some discomfort to some adults (not on purpose!) because I thought fat people were fascinating. I must have been between 4-6, just a bit older than the little girl you described. Whenever I saw one, I stared as hard as I could. I thought they were beautiful, like gods or goddesses (that sounds funny, but I'd just discovered the Greek myths, and to me they were larger-than-life.) Of course, as a dorky little kid, I probably just stood there with my mouth open, gaping, which could be taken as rude or hurtful.

So you never know who you "encouraged" with your kind response! ; )


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Oct 5, 2007)

Jes said:


> i've had a coupla positive encounters with frat boys. all at the same time.
> 
> no, i jest.


 Yeah, I kept thinking "wait a minute, isn't a fraternity 'pig party' something where the fratboys compete to find the biggest and/or most unattractive woman to bring as a date?"

Fraternities in my experience is a way for straight males to experience all the wonders of homoerotic cohabitation without all the sodomy. They get to live as close 'brothers,' hug, cajole, drink and run around chasing each other while they binge drink, screw equally snobby women in an emotionally empty, vain attempt to be popular, masculine and continue their high school attention whore ways. I see stuff on MTV and similar places on fraternities, and I can almost see their thought bubble saying, "I'm doing everything I can to distract people from how much I want to wear assless chaps while my bro busts a loaf in my mouth."

Then again, these are the movers and shakers, the men who will lead our country into a new age of enlightenment. Future Congressman and business magnates. Jesus wept.


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## TraciJo67 (Oct 5, 2007)

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> Yeah, I kept thinking "wait a minute, isn't a fraternity 'pig party' something where the fratboys compete to find the biggest and/or most unattractive woman to bring as a date?"
> 
> Fraternities in my experience is a way for straight males to experience all the wonders of homoerotic cohabitation without all the sodomy. They get to live as close 'brothers,' hug, cajole, drink and run around chasing each other while they binge drink, screw equally snobby women in an emotionally empty, vain attempt to be popular, masculine and continue their high school attention whore ways. I see stuff on MTV and similar places on fraternities, and I can almost see their thought bubble saying, "I'm doing everything I can to distract people from how much I want to wear assless chaps while my bro busts a loaf in my mouth."
> 
> Then again, these are the movers and shakers, the men who will lead our country into a new age of enlightenment. Future Congressman and business magnates. Jesus wept.



You know, that really explains a lot about Senator Craig and his recent career implosion and personal meltdown:

*At the University of Idaho he was student body president and a member of the Delta Chi fraternity* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Craig

He just wasn't distracting us enough.


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## Jes (Oct 5, 2007)

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> Yeah, I kept thinking "wait a minute, isn't a fraternity 'pig party' something where the fratboys compete to find the biggest and/or most unattractive woman to bring as a date?"
> 
> .



there's some of that, but generally, people can tell that when something doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense for a reason.

my point was serious, except for the 'at the same time' part. A frat, or any organization, is what you make of it. Not every sorority woman is an airhead and not every fraternity guy is an asshole. Wouldn't life be easier if they were? But they're not. Which is good, because not all fat people are pigs either, right? Know what I mean? Sweeping generalizations are bad. Unless I make them, of course.


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## Spanky (Oct 5, 2007)

Jes said:


> A frat, or any organization, is what you make of it. Not every sorority woman is an airhead and not every fraternity guy is an asshole. Wouldn't life be easier if they were? But they're not. Which is good, because not all fat people are pigs either, right? Know what I mean? Sweeping generalizations are bad.



Thanks, Jes. Well said. :bow:


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Oct 5, 2007)

Jes said:


> there's some of that, but generally, people can tell that when something doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense for a reason.
> 
> my point was serious, except for the 'at the same time' part. A frat, or any organization, is what you make of it. Not every sorority woman is an airhead and not every fraternity guy is an asshole. Wouldn't life be easier if they were? But they're not. Which is good, because not all fat people are pigs either, right? Know what I mean? Sweeping generalizations are bad. Unless I make them, of course.



Mmm hmm. It's not a sweeping generalization if I apply the situation only to my personal experiences and viewpoints. I wish people could get that straight. (No, I've never been rejected by a fraternity or beaten up by some fratboys. The two dozen fraternity/sorority people I know are simply all masters of super-dickery). In a fish out of water sense, a sorority girl or guy might be perfectly acceptable in a general group of non-Greeks, may even be close friends or colleagues. Put them back into the pool with their brothers and sisters and it's a transformation of Dorian Grey proportions sometimes. You can actually feel the IQ points evaporating. 

The idea that waking up after a night of binge drinking covered in your own vomit and piss is somehow humorous and deserving of a tale told through the ages is somehow sad and revolting to me. For others, this is simply called "Every saturday morning". Then again, as a non-drinker, most of what happens under the influence of alcohol is baffling to me.


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## LJ Rock (Oct 5, 2007)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I think your friend's (and your) assessment are right on the money. But I think the jerk's comment was not aimed at you as much as at _Aris_. Jerk (as I will call him) has doubtless been raised with the fratboy value that it is shameful to be seen with a fat girl. He sees you, and he's attracted to you; that's bad enough! But now here's this obviously normal, cool-looking guy (the kind he'd like to be) clearly enjoying your company and thereby _violating every social norm Jerk believes in_! So another male is threatening him, and he knows in that situation you gotta pound your chest. So he does.



Tried to rep you for this one... you make a good point, Doc. I was kind of thinking the same thing... that it was really this jerks way of putting down the _guy_ she was with more than he was putting down her. Its so unfortunate that there really are people like this in the world, and even more unfortunate that a woman not as confident in themselves as the OP would have actually thought that those nasty comments were a reflection of themselves, rather than the horrible disposition of the bastard making them.


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## Jes (Oct 5, 2007)

Carole Pateman. Book title: The Sexual Contract. The best and smartest take on Dr. Feelgood's comments I've ever read.

Some years ago, I was at the grocery story and some guy started leering at me. Really obviously and really grossly. Then suddenly my 'guy' (who, in this case, was a 5 ft 10 in very, very slight guy who happened to be gay and so was not my BF and was not giving off that vibe) rounded the aisle to ask me something, and the leering dude's head snapped down and he looked and walked away. 

The leering only stopped when he saw David (who was not a threat of any kind). He was respecting David's property. He wasn't respecting me.


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## irish_redhead (Oct 5, 2007)

While I do think that sweeping generalizations are bad, I can't disagree with the assessment of fraternities. 

Not to say that every frat boy is a bigoted asshole, but there are enough of them. And in an environment that can be considered a "mob mentality", the guys who are free-thinkers, have different tastes, and wouldn't necessarily be part of that mentality outside of the frat end up stifled and "going along with the crowd", because to rebel against the party line would single them out for mistreatment as well. 

I'm sure (and I've met) a lot of frat boys are nice enough guys... but in that environment they are at the mercy of a leader - and it's usually the dominent, controlling individuals who end up in that role... The frat then becomes an extension of one person's ego and ideals, for better or worse. 

I haven't been on the receiving end of any issues from frat boys (of course, I generally avoided them), but I have seen some behaviour that was appalling. When I got to know people individually, away from the group, I found guys who were sensitive, intelligent, moral... when they were with the group, those qualities were perceived to be signs of weakness, and they became loud, obnoxious assholes. 

Mind you, in spite of all of that, some of my best memories involved frat house keggers that went until 5 am.


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## Tina (Oct 5, 2007)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> ("Ah reckon y'all lahk them fat gals, don't yew, Cletus?").



When I read it, I read it hearing Ron White's voice. Couldn't help it.

I think you're right on the money, though, Dr.


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## Spanky (Oct 5, 2007)

saturdayasusual said:


> A few nights ago, Aris and I were walking back to our dorm from a friends apartment. It was late, we were tired, and we really just wanted to get back to go to bed. So, we're minding our own business walking along, and this SUV drives by and a guy randomly leans out the window and shouts something about me being a "fat cunt". I didn't hear all of what he said, but it was definitely something derogatory.
> 
> I, personally, found the guy pathetic. But, amazingly, the words didn't phase me at all. It was kind of strange to just experience that though, with no feeling whatsoever. I knew that I was getting more confident and accepting myself the way I am, and learning to love myself, but I guess I didn't realize I'd made it that far yet. A year and a half ago that one comment would have ripped my heart in two. But I've come a long way, and it didn't hurt at all. Definitely a "wow" moment for me.
> 
> ...



I re-read Saturday's comments here and noticed that frat boys did not do this. At least she didn't state that the boys were frat boys. I think Dr. Feelgood made mention of a frat boy mentality and now it seems that frat boys did this and always do this. She also didn't mention whether the boys were black, hispanic, asian or white. Should we start pounding that also?? 

I think what the boys did was assinine. This is the shit part of humanity. It happens, did happen and will happen in the future. Saturday really figured it out and how to handle it. 

So let's bash frats. I joined a frat in college and was less and less involved as I progressed through college. I am more of an individualist. A lot of students get drunk and vomit on themselves and are not in frats. Believe it or not, I JUST BET that the drinking, sex, puking and general jackass rate is the same at a school whether you are in a frat or not. Five guys walking down the street passing a fat girl (or fat guy) have to make a decision. Frat or not, many make the wrong decision. But then we don't seem to remember the cars or people passing by the didn't yell something. 

Amazing.


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## Raider X (Oct 5, 2007)

I think it was about eight months ago before I transferred to another store when these two Caucasian women walk in and I greeted them. After a while, they were in line and bought items. They decided to leave the store with our shopping carts so I attempted to get their attention. The older woman was explaining to the younger one that ghetto (Black was what she meant...) people don't know how to behave. I kept getting trying to get their attention but they ignored me until out of frustration I said, "Hello," and asked for the carts back. They surrendered them and the older woman said to the younger one, "See what I mean? They don't know how to act!"

I was stunned at first, then I came to the conclusion that this woman was ignorant and the younger one foolish because she was listening to misinformation.


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## Jes (Oct 5, 2007)

Spanky said:


> But then we don't seem to remember the cars or people passing by the didn't yell something.
> 
> Amazing.



ok, that reminds me of my favorite Sherman Alexie story. 

He (a slightly brown Spokane/Coeur d'Alene Indian) was walking down the street once near where he was born, and a car full of whitey drives by in a car and (seeing his brown skin) yell GO BACK TO YOUR OWN COUNTRY! at him.

hahahahahaa. Good lord. What do you even say to that?


and i know my post is tangential. but it's a damned good story.


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## steely (Oct 5, 2007)

I went to the doctor today and when I got weighed they had to bring out the extra weight that equals a hundred pounds.All the nurses were so nervous that I would be upset.I honestly didn't care,I was amazed they had the extra part to weigh me on.

I hate for other people to be upset for me about my weight.I really don't care and it doesn't make me uncomfortable anymore.I just am,I'm exactly what I want to be.


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## LillyBBBW (Oct 5, 2007)

Jes said:


> ok, that reminds me of my favorite Sherman Alexie story.
> 
> He (a slightly brown Spokane/Coeur d'Alene Indian) was walking down the street once near where he was born, and a car full of whitey drives by in a car and (seeing his brown skin) yell GO BACK TO YOUR OWN COUNTRY! at him.
> 
> ...



You mean Native American. Not that I'm out to beat the politically correct horse good and dead. Just that this story is much funnier if you are talking about a Native American rather than an Indian and I neeeeed this laugh right now.


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## steely (Oct 5, 2007)

Jes said:


> ok, that reminds me of my favorite Sherman Alexie story.
> 
> He (a slightly brown Spokane/Coeur d'Alene Indian) was walking down the street once near where he was born, and a car full of whitey drives by in a car and (seeing his brown skin) yell GO BACK TO YOUR OWN COUNTRY! at him.
> 
> ...



That is the best damned story I've heard:happy:


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## Jes (Oct 5, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> You mean Native American. Not that I'm out to beat the politically correct horse good and dead. Just that this story is much funnier if you are talking about a Native American rather than an Indian and I neeeeed this laugh right now.



nope.

Alexie calls himself INdian and prefers to be known by that. It's his preferred choice. His official website uses the term Indian.

Now, if you would like me to call YOU native american, I will gladly do so.

and by indian, i don't mean sub continent.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 5, 2007)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I think your friend's (and your) assessment are right on the money. But I think the jerk's comment was not aimed at you as much as at _Aris_. Jerk (as I will call him) has doubtless been raised with the fratboy value that it is shameful to be seen with a fat girl. He sees you, and he's attracted to you; that's bad enough! But now here's this obviously normal, cool-looking guy (the kind he'd like to be) clearly enjoying your company and thereby _violating every social norm Jerk believes in_! So another male is threatening him, and he knows in that situation you gotta pound your chest. So he does.



I have to concur...... he most likely is jealous that Aris is strong enough to not only know what he wants but is also living his life with exactly who he wants. He envies Aris


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 5, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> Yesterday I was in a shoe store trying on shoes. There in the back was a pleasant young woman sitting on one of the square stools with the slanted foot mirror. She was freindly enough but she had her daughter with her who looked to be about 3 I guess. She looked up at me with huge quizzical eyes and said, "She's big!" Her young mother was mortified, laughed nervously and said, "Emily stop!" I just chuckled and said, "It's ok. No, no really -- it's okay." The little girl continued to say it over and over and the mother was all flustered and embarassed. I just looked at the girl, smiled and confirmed her suspicions, "Yes, I am big." She coutinued to say it and roll it around in her mind over and over again while her mom and I tried on shoes. The mother spent the whole time having to ask Emily to get down from there, stop running, get over here, bla bla bla, and was unbelievabley uncomfortable with her daughter's refusal to stop reaffirming that I was a big woman. Every now and then the girl would say it again and finally I told the girl, "Sweetie, I'm ok with you saying that but if you say it to others they might not like that." That was the last she spoke of it again, but she was a perfectly pleasant little girl -- outgoing, talkative, curious. At one point she made an attempt to ram herself into me. I guess she wondered if she would bounce or wondered what I felt like. She missed and stumbled, almost falling to the floor. It was all just something new to her I guess, she's only 3 years old.
> 
> Many many many years ago had that happened to me I would have been humiliated and I would have left that store shaking and embarassed and would have bought four cases of Slim Fast on the way home. *Today, it's just a thing.*


*
*
Children won't stay around people that make them uncomfortable- I think she really liked you and your friendly ways as well as being curious about your size


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## imfree (Oct 5, 2007)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> [/B]
> Children won't stay around people that make them uncomfortable- I think she really liked you and your friendly ways as well as being curious about your size



If you're OK with yourself, kids know and they're comfortable around
you, oh, but they will ask questions. How we answer can have an effect on
what kind of adults they'll be.


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## Surlysomething (Oct 5, 2007)

imfree said:


> If you're OK with yourself, kids know and they're comfortable around
> you, oh, but they will ask questions. How we answer can have an effect on
> what kind of adults they'll be.




I thought you left the boards.

Haha.

Sometimes I can't keep up with the changes.


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## imfree (Oct 5, 2007)

Surlysomething said:


> I thought you left the boards.
> 
> Haha.
> 
> Sometimes I can't keep up with the changes.



I thought Santaclear left his thread. Dim's is like Hotel California, you
can check out anytime you like...........


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## Jes (Oct 6, 2007)

Surlysomething said:


> I thought you left the boards.
> 
> Haha.
> 
> Sometimes I can't keep up with the changes.



i thought he did too! i'm glad you said that...I was having an out of body experience...


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## Surlysomething (Oct 6, 2007)

Jes said:


> i thought he did too! i'm glad you said that...I was having an out of body experience...




bahaha

there's drama everywhere


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