# Wynonna Judd drops 60 pounds



## HappyFA75 (Sep 16, 2010)

The singer shows off her slimmer self on "The Oprah Winfrew Show"

http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/ourcountry/52899/wynonna-shows-off-60-pound-weight-loss-on-oprah/

Thoughts?


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## Jes (Sep 16, 2010)

I think she looks good. That woman has battled a lot of things for much of her life (many of them self-created to some extent or other) and I hope she finds some peace. If weight loss gives it to her, then booyah.


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## FatAndProud (Sep 16, 2010)

I just wanna say that I think red haired bbw/ssbbw are so sexy/awesome. They look exotic for some reason....to me, anyways lol I know red haired ladies are just like blondes and brunettes..but yeah...lol It's a thing, I guess!


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 16, 2010)

I reserve Judd-gement on this one.


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## Still a Skye fan (Sep 16, 2010)

I wish Wynona well...losing weight isn't easy.


Dennis


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## thirtiesgirl (Sep 16, 2010)

If it makes her happy, that's great. But why is her weight loss our business? I know she's making it the business of the general public by sharing it on Oprah, and I really wish she wouldn't. Just once I'd love to see a woman in the popular media _not_ make a big statement about her body and/or life choices whether she loses weight or gains, and not expect public approval or attention for her personal choices. Why are a woman's personal choices about her body always subject to public opinion?


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## Dr. Feelgood (Sep 16, 2010)

thirtiesgirl said:


> Why are a woman's personal choices about her body always subject to public opinion?



They aren't -- UNLESS the woman (or the man; remember Elvis) is a celebrity. Celebrities are people who have become public property: they court the public, and the price for that is being subject to public opinion.*



*and paparazzi


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## Mishty (Sep 16, 2010)

> I just started walking in the wilderness, and screaming at God, 'why'? And I just kept walking--next thing I know, I like to walk.



thank you God.....


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## CarlaSixx (Sep 17, 2010)

She looks great! Definitely looks like a fireball of energy and happiness now  And I think that's the most important part. It seems what she really wanted to share was the fact that after all her battles, she's finally _happy._ Not just talking about her weight loss, but that's the most noticeable thing to talk about. She is looking very happy and I've got nothing but praise for her for that.

They're a good looking family, though. It was bound to be like that, lol.


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## AJ! (Sep 17, 2010)

Between Wynonna, Kirstie Alley and Sara Rue, all my favorite celebrity fatties are withering away to nothing.


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## thirtiesgirl (Sep 17, 2010)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> They aren't -- UNLESS the woman (or the man; remember Elvis) is a celebrity. Celebrities are people who have become public property: they court the public, and the price for that is being subject to public opinion.*
> 
> 
> 
> *and paparazzi



I disagree. Just because you 'court the public,' it doesn't mean your body or your personal choices should be subjected to the court of public opinion. The choices one makes with one's body and lifestyle belong to the individual only. Why should their choices be our business?


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## moniquessbbw (Sep 17, 2010)

AJ! said:


> Between Wynonna, Kirstie Alley and Sara Rue, all my favorite celebrity fatties are withering away to nothing.



Jesus Christ!!!!!! it's not all about FA's. Weight loss isn't easy it is hell on earth, but if you want to stay on this earth at times it is needed. So get over it FA's........


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## MizzSnakeBite (Sep 17, 2010)

AJ! said:


> Between Wynonna, Kirstie Alley and Sara Rue, all my favorite celebrity fatties are withering away to nothing.



You've got to be joking. 

How would you like it if some guy that preferred average-thin women said, "all my favorite celebrity thinnies are ballooning up to death. " 

Yes, I can see how it's frustrating, just like it's frustrating to fat women to hardly ever see plus-sized, female celebrities, but for whatever reason, they decided to lose weight. We shouldn't be judging them for "withering away to nothing" (quite melodramatic, imo). Their life, their body.


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## Jes (Sep 17, 2010)

AJ! said:


> Between Wynonna, Kirstie Alley and Sara Rue, all my favorite celebrity fatties are withering away to nothing.



maybe you should all start a support group for yourselves to handle this tragedy. It'll be called Keep It To Yourselves: a 12 Step Program.


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## Cynthia (Sep 17, 2010)

AJ! said:


> Between Wynonna, Kirstie Alley and Sara Rue, all my favorite celebrity fatties are withering away to nothing.



AJ, I think that you were simply being lighthearted.

Dimensions can be weird in that we awkwardly dance around weight loss issues to remain politically correct and protect our posts from moderation. What we say about size is not always what's in between the lines. (And I've seen that dynamic at Dimensions since the early days in the mid '90s.) I'm not ashamed to say that, for me, life was a helluva lot easier at a size 16-18


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## AJ! (Sep 17, 2010)

And people wonder why I so rarely express an opinion around here.

Oh well, back to keeping my yap shut.

Man, nobody gets me anymore...


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## Dr. Feelgood (Sep 17, 2010)

thirtiesgirl said:


> I disagree. Just because you 'court the public,' it doesn't mean your body or your personal choices should be subjected to the court of public opinion.



You're probably right. The problem is that people aren't the way they should be, they're the way they are. Nosy, for one thing. They are insatiably curious about the details of other people's lives (even fictional people's lives: _Soap Opera Digest_). If, therefore, I allow myself to become a public figure in any way, rest assured that my public will dissect every aspect of my life, including my body, my personal choices, and what I eat for breakfast. I'm not advocating it; I'm just saying that this is how it is; we can complain about it in the same way we can complain about the law of gravity -- and with about as much effect.


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## Ruffie (Sep 17, 2010)

I enjoy Wynonna because she is a woman who puts herself out there. She shares her struggles, her victories, her insights and most of all her passion with the world. She says what she thinks and is honest, that is a rarity in today's society. She is talented, smart and funny and if she wants to lose some weight to make herself feel better good on her!


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## FatAndProud (Sep 17, 2010)

AJ! said:


> And people wonder why I so rarely express an opinion around here.
> 
> Oh well, back to keeping my yap shut.
> 
> Man, nobody gets me anymore...








lol I had to!


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## Sensualbbwcurves (Sep 17, 2010)

If she's happy then, I think it's great!! I personally love her, and think she's beautiful no matter what weight she happens to be!! I love her flaming red hair!!!


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## imfree (Sep 17, 2010)

FatAndProud said:


> lol I had to!



Sadly, no one gets any respect, those who express
their opinion, those who are at weights others don't
approve of, and those who are losing/gaining.

Damn!, it's so hard to just let go and respect 
the right of others to exercise free-will!
Bad news sells tabloids, so they'll never let it
go!!!

I adore the gal at her heaviest, but, her own
right to exercise free-will is tantamount 
to her own happiness and maybe even health.:bow:


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## CastingPearls (Sep 17, 2010)

AJ! said:


> Between Wynonna, Kirstie Alley and Sara Rue, all my favorite celebrity fatties are withering away to nothing.


JESUS, they aren't NOTHING. They're human beings with wants, needs and desires like you and me. If that's what makes them happy who the hell are we to judge?


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## DeniseW (Sep 17, 2010)

Lordy people, lighten up. AJ has been around forever and is definitely an FA. He meant no harm or disrespect I'm sure. Jesus!!


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## Jes (Sep 17, 2010)

DeniseW said:


> Lordy people, lighten up. AJ has been around forever and is definitely an FA. He meant no harm or disrespect I'm sure. Jesus!!



Yes ma'am. I will lighten up ma'am. Sorry ma'am.


Hey, is this one of those cases where a guy is 'one of the good FAs' so no one can speak her mind about anything?


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## giggles (Sep 17, 2010)

A.J., I "got" you. You were only joking.


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## CurvaceousBBWLover (Sep 17, 2010)

I could not care less about her weight loss.


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## Miss Vickie (Sep 17, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> JESUS, they aren't NOTHING. They're human beings with wants, needs and desires like you and me. If that's what makes them happy who the hell are we to judge?



Plus, it's not as though she's whittled down to waif status. She's still a substantial woman, hardly likely to blow away in a stiff wind. 

If she feels great and has found a way to address her demons, then more power to her. I applaud her efforts and want nothing more than a healthy life and heart for everyone. As for why she felt the need to go public, it seems like most female celebrities, if they don't go public, are subject to all kinds of rumor and innuendo. I don't blame them for wanting to set the record straight, even while it's truly none of our business what they do with their bodies.


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## liz (di-va) (Sep 18, 2010)

It's not just "FAs" who have mixed reactions to public figures of size and how they handle it. It is just a fact that most people in the public eye who are big end up smaller. That's just a thing. 

*I* have mixed feelings about it, depending on the situation--which has nothing to do with denying the individual's right to do whatever they want, or whatever they need to do--or even really body size. I am talking about the public discourse about/engagement with weight by the public figures themselves.

As far as Wynonna goes? Personally, I've been extremely uncomfortable with how she's handled public discussions of her weight, and especially on Oprah. I thought some of the previous episodes with her mother (gah) were kind of humiliating and showed an unusually weird lack of boundaries--it's like she was apologizing to the world (and mom) for being fat. I'm not comfortable with that, don't like it. I don't mean that she doesn't have a right to feel however she feels: I'm talking about the fact that she talks about it so publicly and that in that forum she found a place for complicity in all the shame.


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## liz (di-va) (Sep 18, 2010)

Also (forgot to mention) I really disliked her Alli ads.


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## CastingPearls (Sep 18, 2010)

liz (di-va) said:


> It's not just "FAs" who have mixed reactions to public figures of size and how they handle it. It is just a fact that most people in the public eye who are big end up smaller. That's just a thing.
> 
> *I* have mixed feelings about it, depending on the situation--which has nothing to do with denying the individual's right to do whatever they want, or whatever they need to do--or even really body size. I am talking about the public discourse about/engagement with weight by the public figures themselves.
> 
> As far as Wynonna goes? Personally, I've been extremely uncomfortable with how she's handled public discussions of her weight, and especially on Oprah. I thought some of the previous episodes with her mother (gah) were kind of humiliating and showed an unusually weird lack of boundaries--it's like she was apologizing to the world (and mom) for being fat. I'm not comfortable with that, don't like it. I don't mean that she doesn't have a right to feel however she feels: I'm talking about the fact that she talks about it so publicly and that in that forum she found a place for complicity in all the shame.


Her sister has a personal anti-fat agenda and in fact is a spokesperson for anti-obesity activism. 

In some interviews with Wynonna, she said how much her sister would 'guilt' her by saying, I'm only thinking of you and your health, and also threatened to cut off their relationship if she continued on a 'self-destructive path' with her weight. Naomi and Ashley being so small and naturally thin, I can't imagine what it was like growing up in that household.


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## liz (di-va) (Sep 18, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> In some interviews with Wynonna, she said how much her sister would 'guilt' her by saying, I'm only thinking of you and your health, and also threatened to cut off their relationship if she continued on a 'self-destructive path' with her weight. Naomi and Ashley being so small and naturally thin, I can't imagine what it was like growing up in that household.


Bleah. Awful. And - hello - if ever there were a glaring lesson in genetics (diff fathers, same mother, right?) it'd be those two sisters. Clearly built very differently.


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## superodalisque (Sep 18, 2010)

i'm really happy for her as long as she is being who SHE wants to be. i find her beautiful at any size. i don't think fat should be a prison for anyone but something they actually enjoy. if they don't enjoy it they should be completely free and comfortable with getting smaller if they want or need to. i don't need her to enhance my self esteem or self worth by being close to my size. i'm free and she is free. she doesn't have to be anyone but herself with her fantastic voice to please me. the rest is up to her. rock on with your bad self Wynonna!


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## The Fez (Sep 18, 2010)

Jes said:


> Yes ma'am. I will lighten up ma'am. Sorry ma'am.
> 
> 
> Hey, is this one of those cases where a guy is 'one of the good FAs' so no one can speak her mind about anything?



You're having a go at him for speaking his mind though, right?


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## joswitch (Sep 18, 2010)

Cynthia said:


> AJ, I think that you were simply being lighthearted.
> 
> Dimensions can be weird in that *we awkwardly dance around weight loss issues *to remain politically correct and protect our posts from moderation.



^Hardly. Weight loss gets regularly celebrated on DIMs.
The mods don't catch everything by any means.



> What we say about size is not always what's in between the lines. (And I've seen that dynamic at Dimensions since the early days in the mid '90s.) * I'm not ashamed to say that, for me, life was a helluva lot easier at a size 16-18*



^there we go.
And yet people keep on saying they just can't say this stuff on here.


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## joswitch (Sep 18, 2010)

Miss Vickie said:


> Plus, it's not as though she's whittled down to waif status. She's still a substantial woman, hardly likely to blow away in a stiff wind.
> 
> If she feels great and has found a way to address her demons, then more power to her. I applaud her efforts and want nothing more than a healthy life and heart for everyone. As for why she felt the need to go public, it seems like most female *celebrities, if they don't go public, are subject to all kinds of rumor and innuendo.* I don't blame them for wanting to set the record straight, even while it's truly none of our business what they do with their bodies.



^More like if they DON'T go public they won't be able to sell as many copies of their autobiog / self-help / diet / excercise book / DVD....

It's about the $$$money$$$$ honey.


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## joswitch (Sep 18, 2010)

liz (di-va) said:


> Also (forgot to mention) I really disliked her Alli ads.



Did they remember to mention the greasy diarrhea? And how for some Alli takers it never, ever goes away? 

Bet that got snipped out of the script.

"Alli! Shit yourself thin!
Do you want to be thin more than you want bowel control?
Take Alli!
Comes with a years supply of adult diapers!"


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## joswitch (Sep 18, 2010)

AJ! said:


> And people wonder why I so rarely express an opinion around here.
> 
> Oh well, back to keeping my yap shut.
> 
> Man, nobody gets me anymore...



Yeah, quit oppressing dieting people by crying over spilt fat. 
Your feelings are dangerous and bad and must not be expressed.
Do not forget this.
/sarcasm


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## superodalisque (Sep 18, 2010)

please don't make AJ out to be a victim Jos. he's not. for some people what he said was a bit of a misstep. what he is is just kinda old school when it comes to sexual politics. it has nothing to do with being an FA but a man in general. it just should not be a requirement that every woman has to be your type. each woman is her own individual self and has the right to be whatever that is. if she isn't your preference just look elsewhere. compliment somebody else but leave her alone. 

it may be only a joke but women often feel oppressed by those kinds of jokes. its partly why they have such poor body image. that mindset even has something to do with the fact that Wynonna couldn't be comfortable being the beautiful fat redhead she already was only going in the opposite direction. 

what if a guy said just the opposite? what if he said that his fav celebrities were all getting fat in a huffy way even as a joke, especially if we were all aware he really felt that way because we knew his preference was for thin? how do you think the fat women in question would feel? knowing that you find them attractive how would you feel about him saying that especially if you knew they preferred being fat? would that dynamic change how you thought about that? i know its something you might not get but i hope this helps you to understand another perspective on why many women are so protective of each other that way.


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## mossystate (Sep 18, 2010)

joswitch said:


> ^Hardly. Weight loss gets regularly celebrated on DIMs.
> The mods don't catch everything by any means.
> 
> ^there we go.
> And yet people keep on saying they just can't say this stuff on here.



You think that a fat person simply saying that life was easier at a smaller size should get moderated? She didn't mention ' diet ' plans. She didn't say, " hey, I love that I went to Jenny Craig AND WW at the same time!..now let me tell you what they can do for YOU! ". There is a difference. 



joswitch said:


> ^More like if they DON'T go public they won't be able to sell as many copies of their autobiog / self-help / diet / excercise book / DVD....
> 
> It's about the $$$money$$$$ honey.



None of us can possibly know all the reasons - none of us. But. seeing as she IS a celebrity, it's what they do.



joswitch said:


> Did they remember to mention the greasy diarrhea? And how for some Alli takers it never, ever goes away?
> 
> Bet that got snipped out of the script.
> 
> ...



Or you could look at it that this drug is simply not a good idea. A fat person who wants to be thin (ner ) shouldn't have to choose...ya know? 



joswitch said:


> Yeah, quit oppressing dieting people by crying over spilt fat.
> Your feelings are dangerous and bad and must not be expressed.
> Do not forget this.
> /sarcasm



He expressed himself. Other people ( including some fat people who get to feel what we feel ) then expressed _themselves_.


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## DeniseW (Sep 18, 2010)

thanks for calling me ma'am....lol. I didn't say you couldn't speak your mind, does it always have to end up like this? I'm just saying that a few of us tend to jump all over people immediately without even thinking. 





Jes said:


> Yes ma'am. I will lighten up ma'am. Sorry ma'am.
> 
> 
> Hey, is this one of those cases where a guy is 'one of the good FAs' so no one can speak her mind about anything?


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## verucassault (Sep 18, 2010)

she's gone orange, like more orange than usual. its scarey. people stop with the spray tanning!


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## CastingPearls (Sep 18, 2010)

DeniseW said:


> thanks for calling me ma'am....lol. I didn't say you couldn't speak your mind, does it always have to end up like this? I'm just saying that a few of us tend to jump all over people immediately without even thinking.


I think it's 'jumping' to assume that 'a few of us' aren't even thinking.


'We' may not agree with 'you' but that doesn't mean we're incapable of reason, thank you.


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## CastingPearls (Sep 18, 2010)

verucassault said:


> she's gone orange, like more orange than usual. its scarey. people stop with the spray tanning!


You don't post nearly enough.


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## verucassault (Sep 18, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> You don't post nearly enough.



i know, i am working on it


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## frankman (Sep 18, 2010)

I liked her better when she was really thin.


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## CastingPearls (Sep 18, 2010)

frankman said:


> I liked her better when she was really thin.


Bad Frank. Stirring the pot!! Shame shame!


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## joswitch (Sep 18, 2010)

mossystate said:


> You think that a fat person simply saying that life was easier at a smaller size should get moderated?



Nope. Take care not to imagine stuff I haven't said.
My point was that there's plenty of thin(ner) / less fat celebration on DIMs that does NOT get moderated away, and it's time to stop pretending it all does (get moderated away).



> None of us can possibly know all the reasons - none of us. *But. seeing as she IS a celebrity, it's what they do.*


^Yep. We agree on that point.



> Or you could look at it this drug is simply not a good idea. A fat person who wants to be thin (ner ) shouldn't have to choose...ya know?


^Errr... my cracks re. the greasy shits were not empty rhetoric. That IS what Alli does. Any person who wanted to be thin(ner) would be well advised to choose some method(s) that do not include Alli...



> He expressed himself. Other people ( including some fat people who get to feel what we feel ) then expressed _themselves_.



^True, but you'll note that his expression was a general whine, whereas subsequent expression attacked what he, specifically, said.
If FAs can't whinge about spilt fat on DIMs and hear some gentle rumblings of fellow feeling from other FAs - where can they go to do that? eh?
/rhetoric

Also:
Thanks Mossy for the "Crying over spilt fat" crack.
I stole that from one of your posts.


Also also:
I had no idea that the woman referred to in the OP existed, until I read this thread.


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## joswitch (Sep 18, 2010)

frankman said:


> I liked her better when she was really thin.



Never mind Frank, there's always the way back Internet machine, or failing that, Photoshop....


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## joswitch (Sep 18, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> please don't make AJ out to be a victim Jos. he's not. for some people what he said was a bit of a misstep. what he is is just kinda old school when it comes to sexual politics. it has nothing to do with being an FA but a man in general. it just should not be a requirement that every woman has to be your type. each woman is her own individual self and has the right to be whatever that is. if she isn't your preference just look elsewhere. compliment somebody else but * leave her alone*.



I must have missed the part of AJ's post where he said he planned to camp in the bushes outside whatsername's house with a crate of Big Macs, 20 feet of poly rope and a bottle of chloroform.

I'd bet a dollar to your dime that none of the celebs AJ was pining about will ever read his post.



> it may be only a joke but women often feel oppressed by those kinds of jokes. its partly why they have such poor body image. that mindset even has something to do with the fact that Wynonna couldn't be comfortable being the beautiful fat redhead she already was only going in the opposite direction.



How do you think *I* feel every time Beyonce sang that "No Scrubs" song, eh? eh?  I mean I don't have a car, or mucho dinero and my skin is "kinda weak"


Everybody's always banging on about what they want from one another.
Good or bad, it's never going to stop. 

AJ just did so on an internet backwater devoted to a fat positive POV.
And got his ass spanked for it.



> what if a guy said just the opposite? what if he said that his fav celebrities were all getting fat in a huffy way even as a joke, especially if we were all aware he really felt that way because we knew his preference was for thin?



If he said that on a fat positive board = bad.
Teh internetz is now split up into sandpits so everybody gets to play with folks of their own preference. No excuse for trolling someone else's.



> how do you think the fat women in question would feel? knowing that you find them attractive how would you feel about him saying that especially if you knew they preferred being fat? would that dynamic change how you thought about that? i know its something you might not get but i hope this helps you to *understand another perspective on why many women are so protective of each other that way.*



^I understand that by weight of posts, DIMs has very largely become a BBW support group, where the correct and approved opinions are very largely = to those of society at large - insofar as: many of the most prolific posters here see fatness as a burden - which to a greater or lesser extent and for various reasons they wish to / are in process of / get(ting) / or have gotten - rid of.

It is, of course, their absolute right to do what they will with their own bodies, in whatever regard. Why they choose to talk about that weightloss desire / practice on a board created for fat positivity is, honestly, baffling to me. I really do not get why the many people who have repeatedly expressed their want / need / desire / practice of weightloss on here, often to acclaim of other like minded posters - haven't gone and started up their own weightloss board. Certainly they'd have plenty of subscribers.

Is it just a form of social inertia / laziness??
I guess it's just easier to take over an existing board than start your own.


Also:
I understand that there is no room in DIMs anymore for FAs to express their negative feelings about people losing weight. Not without getting flamed anyhow. It's actually broader than that even. It is largely not OK, outside of the Paysite or Weight Board to express a preference of physical attraction. Your mileage will vary, of course, depending on your genitals.

Just felt the need to tell it like it is. This is DIMs in Web 2.0.

And no, I'm not telling people to go away.
That would be entirely pointless. 
Fuck it, the weight loss lobby has WON.
The war is OVER.
All over the globe.
That meme's taken over DIMs as well, barring a few feedist holdouts.

Nor am I suggesting there's been some kind of conspiracy.
Clearly, the vast majority of fat people do not want to be (so) fat.
Cos there are many fat people posting on DIMs - we have a lot of people posting who - don't want to be fat.

That's all there is to it.
I see it all soooooooo clearly now.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled program of weightloss applause.

G'night y'all, I'm off to get some kip now... Have fun while I'm gone!


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## Dromond (Sep 18, 2010)

Why do some FAs feel they should be able to say any insensitive thing and that be okay? I'm pretty sure AJ was joking, but I'm absolutely sure Jos is serious. You don't get a free pass because you love teh fatz. None of us should. Big women are people, and if they take offense to something you've said, OH FUCKING WELL. Deal with it like a big boy, don't shout "Help, help! I'm being repressed!"


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## mossystate (Sep 18, 2010)

joswitch said:


> You may now return to your regularly scheduled program of weightloss applause.



Wow. Seems that any support of women who choose...choose... to lose weight means that the ' fat woman support group ' doesn't give the same support to women who choose...choose...to live and thrive in the bodies they have...as is. It's not weightloss " applause "...not the way you mean it. It is not applause that they have lost ' the ugly weight!!! '. Fat positivity also means you respect and want the best for the fat person as an individual. You seem to think that can be followed like some script. I know exactly what I mean by that, and it certainly does not smell like what you described in this thread. There is a lot of talk about loving the fat form, outside of the boards you mentioned. There is no weight loss lobby.


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## cinnamitch (Sep 18, 2010)

Dromond said:


> Why do some FAs feel they should be able to say any insensitive thing and that be okay? I'm pretty sure AJ was joking, but I'm absolutely sure Jos is serious. You don't get a free pass because you love teh fatz. None of us should. Big women are people, and if they take offense to something you've said, OH FUCKING WELL. Deal with it like a big boy, don't shout "Help, help! I'm being repressed!"



Oh Mr Jos wont even get reprimanded, the only ones who will get reprimanded will be the ones who dare to say its a persons right to be what they want, even if its skinnier.


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## Dromond (Sep 18, 2010)

Well then bring on the red cans, because that's how I feel.


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## Paquito (Sep 18, 2010)

Isn't size acceptance supposed to be about... size acceptance?


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## MizzSnakeBite (Sep 18, 2010)

Paquito said:


> Isn't size acceptance supposed to be about... size acceptance?



Crazy talk. Pure crazy talk.


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## Dromond (Sep 19, 2010)

Paquito said:


> Isn't size acceptance supposed to be about... size acceptance?



Stone him.


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## imfree (Sep 19, 2010)

Dromond said:


> Stone him.



Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone.
I just dropped mine and trotted away.


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## joswitch (Sep 19, 2010)

Dromond said:


> Why do some FAs feel they should be able to say any insensitive thing and that be okay? I'm pretty sure AJ was joking, but I'm absolutely sure Jos is serious. You don't get a free pass because you love teh fatz. None of us should. Big women are people, and if they take offense to something you've said, OH FUCKING WELL. Deal with it like a big boy, don't shout "Help, help! I'm being repressed!"



You've enormously missed my point.

My point was WHY is it seen as offensive, at all, on a board whose tagline is "Where Big Is Beautiful", for some guy to have an ickle whine about how celeb girls losing weight ("withering away") makes him all sad and shiz.

And the answer is simple - lots of fat and ex-fat people on DIMs are very personally invested in losing weight and they don't want to hear that. They identify with those weight-losing celebrities and take that "withering away" remark as personally offensive.

And there's enough of these peeps to form a large majority by-number-of-posts on DIMs, to the point that tagline is now pretty damn misleading to teh noobs.

Maybe AJ feels repressed, I dunno.
I certainly don't cos, hey, I'm still talking here.


----------



## joswitch (Sep 19, 2010)

mossystate said:


> Wow. Seems that any support of women who choose...choose... to lose weight means that the ' fat woman support group ' doesn't give the same support to women who choose...choose...to live and thrive in the bodies they have...as is. It's not weightloss " applause "...not the way you mean it. It is not applause that they have lost ' the ugly weight!!! '.



There you go trying to read between the lines again.
I meant applause for losing weight. No adjectives implied or required.



> Fat positivity also means you respect and want the best for the fat person as an individual.



Nope. That would be something like "Individual body autonomy and personal fulfilment positivity." within which fat would have no intrinsic value (positive or negative) outside of what the individual assigned to it. Now that might be seen as a very laudable thing n'all, but it's not "Where Big Is Beautiful" - which is a very definite value assignment. 

You can see how some dude stumbling in the door thinking he'd found a fat celebration party might be surprised and confused to find he'd stumbled into a body autonomy support group, and that before he realised that, he might make a few contextual "faux pas".



> You seem to think that can be followed like some script. I know exactly what I mean by that, and it certainly does not smell like what you described in this thread. There is a lot of talk about loving the fat form, outside of the boards you mentioned. There is no weight loss lobby.



The weight loss lobby I referred to is the vast multi-billion dollar industry out there in the realworld and all up in your media. That lobby has been responsible for propogating the fat-is-bad meme-complex and has done so with such success that its ideas are now a standard imprint in the vast majority of humans in the Western world. Lots of those humans are posting here and they bring it in with them. I'm not talking about some kind of organised lobby on DIMs per se.


----------



## Jes (Sep 19, 2010)

The Fez said:


> You're having a go at him for speaking his mind though, right?



No. I'm having a go at her for being angry that I spoke my mind. There's a difference. He spoke his mind. I spoke my mind. Someone else told me only one of us should've posted.

Yes?


----------



## vardon_grip (Sep 19, 2010)

Jes said:


> No. I'm having a go at her for being angry that I spoke my mind. There's a difference. He spoke his mind. I spoke my mind. Someone else told me only one of us should've posted.
> 
> Yes?



Yep!

Maybe some help from Kevin Kline is in order
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edDPZAI-Zuw&feature=related


----------



## Jes (Sep 19, 2010)

joswitch said:


> I'd bet a dollar to your dime that none of the celebs AJ was pining about will ever read his post.



No, but every woman in this thread will. I hope you think that matters.


----------



## thirtiesgirl (Sep 19, 2010)

Jos, the fat gals are going to stop liking you if you _try to make them_ like you.


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## The Fez (Sep 19, 2010)

Jes said:


> No. I'm having a go at her for being angry that I spoke my mind. There's a difference. He spoke his mind. I spoke my mind. Someone else told me only one of us should've posted.
> 
> Yes?



Oh, ok. That's actually what I was arguing in favour of.

Progression!


----------



## Dromond (Sep 19, 2010)

joswitch said:


> You've enormously missed my point.
> 
> My point was WHY is it seen as offensive, at all, on a board whose tagline is "Where Big Is Beautiful", for some guy to have an ickle whine about how celeb girls losing weight ("withering away") makes him all sad and shiz.
> 
> ...



They don't want to hear that. Got it. If anyone takes objection to the "ickle whining" they should shut up. Got it. Your opinion is the only right one. Got that, too.

Newsflash, sunshine, you aren't the protector of Dimensions, so you can climb down from that high horse any time. You're just going to have to deal with the fact that some women want to lose weight for their health, mental well being, and physical well being.


----------



## mossystate (Sep 19, 2010)

joswitch said:


> > There you go trying to read between the lines again.
> > I meant applause for losing weight. No adjectives implied or required.
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Jes (Sep 19, 2010)

joswitch said:


> I understand that there is no room in DIMs anymore for FAs to express their negative feelings about people losing weight. Not without getting flamed anyhow. It's actually broader than that even. It is largely not OK, outside of the Paysite or Weight Board to express a preference of physical attraction. Your mileage will vary, of course, depending on your genitals.
> 
> Just felt the need to tell it like it is. This is DIMs in Web 2.0.
> 
> ...



This post of yours, Jos, is really a perfect example in my mind of what can happen in the male camp when women living in a patriarchy actually speak their minds. When they say, out loud, what they genuinely feel, or truly want. And, of course, this can function in other paradigms; there's a kind of all-or-nothing hysteria that comes from the top spot in the pecking order when the lower orders speak their mind (in as much as that's ever possible. Cf. Gramsci and then Spivak's 'subaltern'). It's such a defensive posture 'oh, wait! we can't rule the roost? well then ALL ORDER HAS BROKEN DOWN AND THE WORLD IS NO MORE.'

But actually....the world is still here. Dims is still here. You and I are still here. Only for the top spot on the totem pole is free thought a problem. If things fall apart, if the center can not hold, one group stands to lose much more than do the others. Sometimes, top dog has to share.

I wouldn't expect you to agree; if you did, you'd be disproving my point. But I do have to thank you for such a shining example of this whole issue, especially today, when I'm supposed to get busy with the homework I've been putting off for my post-structuralist post-colonial PoliSci class. Ah, graduate school--when will I ever stop sucking your teat?


----------



## joswitch (Sep 19, 2010)

Dromond said:


> They don't want to hear that. Got it. If anyone takes objection to the "ickle whining" they should shut up. Got it. Your opinion is the only right one. Got that, too.



No, you really don't "got it".:doh:
Hmmm, I don't recall you being this obtuse in the usual way of things.

Let me break this the fuck down for you:

_"My point was about WHY is it seen as offensive, at all, on a board whose tagline is "Where Big Is Beautiful", for some guy to have an ickle whine about how celeb girls losing weight ("withering away") makes him all sad and shiz.

And the answer is simple - lots of fat and ex-fat people on DIMs are very personally invested in losing weight and they don't want to hear that. They - *the fat people who identify with those weight-losing celebrities* and take that "withering away" remark as personally offensive.

*And that is entirely their right to do and say so.*

And *there's enough fat people who identify with weight-loss to form a large majority by-number-of-posts on DIMs, to the point that tagline is now pretty damn misleading* to teh noobs."_

^This is my point:
*DIMs is NOT what it says on the tin, and hasn't been for a while.*
That's an observation.
An observation that I consider to be accurate.

I'm not voicing it here in an attempt to get all the weight-loss committed fat people to shut up. No. They're not going to give up something they identify with so strongly, regardless of what I might say (or not).
I'm voicing it, cos I think it needs saying, explicitly.
It's been an enlightening observation for me, at least.
Now I get this^, it's saved me a great deal of banging my head against a brick wall. It's saved me an enormous amount of time, I might otherwise have spent posting on here.



> Newsflash, sunshine, you aren't the protector of Dimensions, so you can climb down from that high horse any time. You're just going to have to deal with the fact that some women want to lose weight for their health, mental well being, and physical well being.



^And some want to lose it:
- to fit in socially
- to buy nice clothes from the same shops their friends shop at
etc. etc.
It doesn't matter why fat people, want/choose to lose.
*Their reasons are their own and they are entitled to them, whatever they are.*
The point I am making here is: 
pretty much all fat people, including most of those here on DIMs, want to lose (some, or a lot of) weight.

FAs who have a problem with that^ are fucked.
Or not, in fact, fucked.
That's tough shit for FAs.
Cos it's not gonna change (back).
Also tough shit for FAs is: DIMs now belongs (outside the Paysite and WB) to those weight loss peeps, so FAs don't even get to whinge about it here anymore.

Observations of what is.
That is all.


----------



## joswitch (Sep 19, 2010)

mossystate said:


> *snip*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm not in favour of censorship.
I'd let fat people talk about their weightloss wants on here aaaaallll they want.
I think that truth would spare FAs from the illusion that all but a very, very few fat people are unhappy being fat (to some degree) and don't want to be (as) fat.
The sooner FAs get that truth, the sooner we can GTFOI, and... 
I dunno, go be Buddhist monks or something.
(I admit, I haven't really thought through that last bit)


----------



## joswitch (Sep 19, 2010)

Jes said:


> This post of yours, Jos, is really a perfect example in my mind of what can happen in* the male camp* when women living in a *patriarchy* actually speak their minds. When they say, out loud, what they genuinely feel, or truly want. And, of course, this can function in other paradigms; there's a kind of all-or-nothing hysteria that comes from the top spot in the pecking order when the lower orders speak their mind (in as much as that's ever possible. Cf. Gramsci and then Spivak's 'subaltern'). It's such a defensive posture 'oh, wait! we can't rule the roost? well then ALL ORDER HAS BROKEN DOWN AND THE WORLD IS NO MORE.'
> 
> But actually....the world is still here. Dims is still here. You and I are still here. Only for the top spot on the totem pole is free thought a problem. If things fall apart, if the center can not hold, one group stands to lose much more than do the others. Sometimes, top dog has to share.
> 
> I wouldn't expect you to agree; if you did, you'd be disproving my point. But I do have to thank you for such a shining example of this whole issue, especially today, when I'm supposed to get busy with the homework I've been putting off for my post-structuralist post-colonial PoliSci class. Ah, graduate school--when will I ever stop sucking your teat?



Aahahahahaha!
Very amusing!
Especially the bit about me being part of some "male camp" or teh "patriarchy", maximum LOLz!

Seriously, what power did FAs ever have, over anything?
Other than maybe, the broad direction of these boards?
And that's long gone. (Despite some FAs still blundering about looking for Shangri-La).
Which, was of course, my point.
It's not hysteria to point out the truth.

But, hey whatever puts a shine on for ya.
Enjoy it.


----------



## joswitch (Sep 19, 2010)

thirtiesgirl said:


> Jos, the fat gals are going to stop liking you if you _try to make them_ like you.



Lolz!
You_ were_ being sarcastic right?
Cos, this is not me trying to be charming, or something....


----------



## superodalisque (Sep 19, 2010)

joswitch said:


> No, you really don't "got it".:doh:
> Hmmm, I don't recall you being this obtuse in the usual way of things.
> 
> Let me break this the fuck down for you:
> ...



i lost weight and i didn't want to. i have never hankered after being thin ever for any reason. so that has nothing to do with my cheering on another woman who is controlling her own destiny. what i do want however is for women to stop being told that somehow their bodies are WRONG one way or another. i admit i used to say similar things that AJ said. but guess what? i was wrong. no one should have to look like what my idea of beautiful is--nobody. Wynonna's body is hers and its beautiful anyway she decides to inhabit it. its her temple and she is always the goddess of it no matter how big or small it is. any woman's body is beautiful in the exact same way. 

isn't it time for us to stop downing each other for a physical reality especially if we'd resent it being done to us? i understand why some people feel the need to down thin but isn't it time to evolve past that yet? its juvenile to feel you have to hate something you aren't just because its the popular thing and you or the people you might admire may not be. it reeks of sour grapes and has nothing to do with fat people being truly confident and competent in their own bodies. you don't have to hate someone else to love yourself.

PS: When some guys discuss their negative feelings about weight loss which has never been disallowed here as actual discussions that are pro weight loss have, it doesn't mean that the women who are actually fat have to be silent about taking exception to that mindset that has nothing to do with weight loss but simply the ability for a woman to be allowed to exist as she is. i think thats called size acceptance. when people have been criticized their entire life for being who they are physically its easy to relate to someone else being criticized for a body that belongs to her that others choose to project their negative opinions on. is the real answer that women should all shut up about our real feelings? would you rather that people feel as you do should be allowed to express that and we should not? where is the balance in that? you have an opinion. so do others. they may differ. live with it.


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## DeniseW (Sep 19, 2010)

but you did indeed have a go at him first and once again, I never said you shouldn't have posted, sorry, if you're looking for a fight, not in the mood....




Jes said:


> No. I'm having a go at her for being angry that I spoke my mind. There's a difference. He spoke his mind. I spoke my mind. Someone else told me only one of us should've posted.
> 
> Yes?


----------



## CastingPearls (Sep 19, 2010)

DeniseW said:


> but you did indeed have a go at him first and once again, I never said you shouldn't have posted, sorry, if you're looking for a fight, not in the mood....


Why do you assume she is looking for a fight because she addresses something she disagrees with? Isn't 'having a go' expressing her opinion as valid as yours or mine or AJ's? You say you never said she shouldn't have posted but telling us to lighten up basically only authorizes agreement, doesn't it? 



FTR--Jos, honestly I don't understand why you don't understand that this isn't about dieting. This is about a woman who is taking charge of her own happiness and some of us supporting her decisions. It has nothing to do with anyone's desire to lose weight or be thinner. I have no desire to do either and any weight loss I achieved was actually detrimental to my health but that's on plenty of other threads to peruse. I have never celebrated any weight loss. I celebrate anyone who loves themselves enough to pursue their own happiness whether it's gaining, maintaining or losing. I will not be boxed into someone else's ideal for me but you are certainly entitled to express yourself, only don't wave the martyr flag and imply anyone who disagrees with you has an agenda to eradicate teh eveel fatz.


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## mossystate (Sep 19, 2010)

joswitch said:


> I think that truth would spare FAs from the illusion that all but a very, very few fat people are unhappy being fat (to some degree) and don't want to be (as) fat.



Perhaps if more guys like you set a good example of loving your bodies as they are and being all super confident, then maybe there would be less unhappiness.

But if you won't fight the darn brainwashing, how do you expect us to find the courage and conviction?


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## superodalisque (Sep 19, 2010)

mossystate said:


> Perhaps if more guys like you set a good example of loving your bodies as they are and being all super confident, then maybe there would be less unhappiness.
> 
> But if you won't fight the darn brainwashing, how do you expect us to find the courage and conviction?



yes, what about all of the guys with fantasies of being fat but don't dare because of comments and reproof? just let Wynonna alone so that she can be happy hopefully just like everyone else wants to be.


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## wtchmel (Sep 19, 2010)

Personally i don't find her attrative at all and never had. In the pic with oprah she looks like she's sucking it in hardcore, to where her neck veins are a poppin'! I guess she's just not my type.


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## joswitch (Sep 19, 2010)

mossystate said:


> Perhaps if more guys like you set a good example of loving your bodies as they are and being all super confident, then maybe there would be less unhappiness.


You're right of course, it's all my fault... /sarcasm


> But if you won't fight the darn brainwashing, how do you expect us to find the courage and conviction?



^I expect nothing. And in this I am amply recompensed.


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## thirtiesgirl (Sep 19, 2010)

joswitch said:


> Lolz!
> You_ were_ being sarcastic right?



No, I wasn't.


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## mossystate (Sep 19, 2010)

joswitch said:


> ^I expect nothing. And in this I am amply recompensed.



No...really...why didn't you fight the brainwashing. You so hate that so many fat people can't/don't/won't. I know you want to be clever and all...but I am serious when I ask. 

Why can't you see yourself in a discussion like this, and actually do a cool thing by addressing it? The world is a cold place for a lot of people. Here is your chance to show some understanding, beyond the snappy quips. 


As a fat person, I totally get at least one of the reasons why you didn't feel confident....why you didn't love yourself. It's not easy when so many want to ridicule. So?


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## joswitch (Sep 19, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> Why do you assume she is looking for a fight because she addresses something she disagrees with? Isn't 'having a go' expressing her opinion as valid as yours or mine or AJ's? You say you never said she shouldn't have posted but telling us to lighten up basically only authorizes agreement, doesn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> FTR--Jos, honestly I don't understand why you don't understand that this isn't about dieting. This is about a woman who is taking charge of her own happiness and some of us supporting her decisions.



^Her decision to.... lose weight.
A decision taken by an overwhelming majority of people all over the place, all the time... And supported by almost all the people, almost all the time...

In contrast: when people make a decision to gain weight, and declare so publically, there is almost universal wailing and gnashing of teeth... Even on DIMs...

So I remain unconvinced by the general assertion (in contrast with your particular assertion, CP, which I am convinced by) that it's just about supporting the individual's decision, whatever that may be.



> It has nothing to do with anyone's desire to lose weight or be thinner. I have no desire to do either and any weight loss I achieved was actually detrimental to my health but that's on plenty of other threads to peruse. I have never celebrated any weight loss. I celebrate anyone who loves themselves enough to pursue their own happiness whether it's gaining, maintaining or losing. I will not be boxed into someone else's ideal for me but you are certainly entitled to express yourself, only don't wave the martyr flag and imply anyone who disagrees with you has an agenda to eradicate teh eveel fatz.



^I said "a majority" not "all", nor "anyone". 

Certainly the first poster who jumped on AJ is, as she stated, in the middle of major weight loss...
Mossy has stated on these boards that she wants to lose 50lbs...
Miss Vickie has lost mucho...*
Just for starters...

I do get how some people might be happy for whatsername celebrity, without subscribing to weightloss...
But those people are, I perceive, in a minority on DIMs - in contrast with those who do (subscribe to weightloss)...

It's not martyrism (is that even a word?) to point out what is blindingly obvious to anyone who's been reading around on DIMs for a while.


_
*and yes, before someone starts up again, *of course these people have the right to:
- do want they want with their bodies
- say what they want about their bodies*_

but.... don't ask me to believe that they are not personally invested in weightloss one way or another... even if they themselves may believe that they are all value-neutral as far as weight is concerned...


----------



## superodalisque (Sep 19, 2010)

joswitch said:


> ^Her decision to.... lose weight.
> A decision taken by an overwhelming majority of people all over the place, all the time... And supported by almost all the people, almost all the time...
> 
> In contrast: when people make a decision to gain weight, and declare so publically, there is almost universal wailing and gnashing of teeth... Even on DIMs...
> ...



your seeming belief that just because a fat woman wants to lose a little weight for health's sake makes her a person who hates herself fat is downright wrong. i really miss the weight i lost. i didn't even lose it on purpose. what about me? you really can't understand why joking about someone's being too thin is the same as joking about them being too fat? or is it just that you refuse to understand? i hadn't thought you were that callous but maybe i was wrong.


----------



## mossystate (Sep 19, 2010)

joswitch said:


> Mossy has stated on these boards that she wants to lose 50lbs...
> 
> 
> > Might you have the post saved where I said that? I don't recall ever giving a number. Now, not saying it's not possible, but I do know I tend to...tend to...stay away from mentioning poundage. I do remember saying that I would like to be around a size 20 or so. Oh, and losing 50 pounds...I would still be FAT.
> ...


----------



## joswitch (Sep 19, 2010)

mossystate said:


> joswitch said:
> 
> 
> > Mossy has stated on these boards that she wants to lose 50lbs...
> ...


----------



## mossystate (Sep 19, 2010)

joswitch said:


> But your position is not one of fat positivity, as such, it's a position of individual body autonomy / personal fulfilment... Which is perhaps, fat neutral...



Positions for you are obviously very black and white. However, you still refuse to answer what I have now asked more than once, which leads me to believe that the black and white only applies when it comes to other people.

Thanks.


----------



## joswitch (Sep 19, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> your seeming belief that just because a fat woman wants to lose a little weight for health's sake makes her a person who hates herself fat is downright wrong. i really miss the weight i lost. i didn't even lose it on purpose. what about me?



I never used the word "hate" in this thread.

Obviously, you're not one of the weightloss invested people I had in mind.



> you really can't understand why joking about someone's being too thin is the same as joking about them being too fat? or is it just that you refuse to understand? i hadn't thought you were that callous but maybe i was wrong.



I'm a thinnish person who got a lot of abuse growing up for being "too thin", I do get the "thin abuse" angle...


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## joswitch (Sep 19, 2010)

mossystate said:


> Positions for you are obviously very black and white. However, you still refuse to answer what I have now asked more than once, which leads me to believe that the black and white only applies when it comes to other people.
> 
> Thanks.



I was just going back to edit that...

I can see that for you there's shades of grey, with positive and -ve feelings towards fat... but given that your current ambition is to be less fat, surely that puts you more to the -ve, as things stand, atm.... Albeit only slightly...

Which question was that?
Sorry, the profusion of rhetorical points become a blur..


----------



## mossystate (Sep 19, 2010)

About as -ve as you being -ve because you are not, or don't want to be fat.

Which ties into, quite nicely, my asking you about your own brainwashing. Go.


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## Russ2d (Sep 19, 2010)

joswitch said:


> ^More like if they DON'T go public they won't be able to sell as many copies of their autobiog / self-help / diet / excercise book / DVD....
> 
> It's about the $$$money$$$$ honey.




Took the words right out of my mouth! 99 times out of a hundred that's exactly what's going on


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## joswitch (Sep 19, 2010)

mossystate said:


> About as -ve as you being -ve because you are not, or don't want to be fat.



^Oh, teh assuming... I refer you to the "switch" in my handle.



> Which ties into, quite nicely, my asking you about your own brainwashing. Go.



What?
Oh, you mean why didn't I stay really, really weak and thin?
Why did I spend loads of time, effort, sweat and pain training to get bigger and stronger?
Cos I didn't want to get beaten up anymore. (It worked).
Cos I wanted to be able to lift heavy things. (I can).
And climb mountains. (I did).
Cos all the girls I ever fancied wanted (kinda) muscular guys, and I wanted to get laid. (It helped).
Dudes will do pretty much anything to get laid, especially when we're young.
And that shapes a lot of stuff about us...
To quote Chris Rock:
"If a man could fuck a woman in a cardboard box? ...He wouldn't buy a house!"


But I don't really see how all that's relevant...
It's not like I'm railing at people on here to overcome their programming...
I'm 30 years too late for that anyhow...
I'm just flagging up what IS... 
and how what IS, conflicts with the label on the DIMs tin...


----------



## mossystate (Sep 19, 2010)

joswitch said:


> ^
> 
> 
> > Oh, teh assuming... I refer you to the "switch" in my handle.
> ...


----------



## joswitch (Sep 19, 2010)

mossystate said:


> Well, I have never noticed you talk about how you are gaining weight. That doesn't mean you have not said the words...just have never seen them.



Errr... well I did work my arse off on two separate campaigns to gain 14lbs first time and 18lbs the second (I'd lost some in between through sickness when travelling)... It took me over a year for each "build"... but both of those were strength focussed gains and therefore were a little over half muscle... Although my whole FA / switchness thing helped me be cool about the just under half that was fat...

But that's not the kind of weight gain you were referring to is it?
See below...



> and that's the problem
> 
> so, you had your list of reasons why you succumed to your brainwashing, and what you only thought you wanted and desired...but I see from the quote above that you are starting on a journey to thumb your nose at your past brain laundering, in order to become more fully +ve
> 
> I had no idea you wanted to be fat. Sorry.



Heh. I figure you're being sarcastic here, but wtf in for a penny, in for a pound....

My feedee switchness is like my other switch aspects, which I've also mentioned here...
Rarely practiced in the absence of a gf who is specifically into that kink...
Cos without that they're just not hot, to me.....
They are "be done to" kinks, for me... 
So they remain minor aspects...

In particular I've yet to date, or even meet, a female feeder*...
probably cos they're waaaaay rare... So that particular switchness of mine has remained very much (mostly) unexplored..

(*Even if I did, judging from a fair sampling of female feeders with profiles online, they very rarely, if ever want to start with a small dude... And cos they're so rare they get to choose their ideal...)

My current body shape and efforts to maintain it = my dominant aspects, and given: my past experience, current income level / lifestyle and the (even greater) rarity of women compatible with my minor aspects I reckon it represents my better bet, for the time being anyway... Certainly there seem to be more BBWs who are into slim/muscular -ish dudes than there are female feeders who wanna "roll their own" BHM from scratch.... And I can live / cope with very little to no expression of my switchness, pretty much indefinitely....

Not that you give a crap. You were, after all just trying to catch me out, or something, I'm sure.


----------



## mossystate (Sep 19, 2010)

joswitch said:


> Not that you give a crap. You were, after all just trying to catch me out, or something, I'm sure.



You are right...I don't give a crap about your kinks, my kinks, or anybody elses kinks...not when it comes to this particular conversation.

I am not talking about aspects of a person's life that they can switch on and off. Also, I was not trying to " catch " you in anything...not in a manner that would have me say ah-HA! This is a MUCH more serious line of conversation. You reduce intelligent and sometimes very difficult decisions as being a product of brainwashing...across the board. My desiring to be in a slightly smaller body becomes my being slightly fat negative...your desires for your own body depend on the availability of certain others...and because of that convenient fact, you get to say, " hey, look, I gained some weight last month, so I am fat positive ", and when you lose that weight, because you have ' switched ', you are not fat negative, because there is the possibility of always another adventure, right around the corner. 

Fat people who are full-time fat ... we have to just try and get to the only voice in our heads that matter.........our own.


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## joswitch (Sep 19, 2010)

mossystate said:


> You are right...I don't give a crap about your kinks, my kinks, or anybody elses kinks...not when it comes to this particular conversation.
> 
> I am not talking about aspects of a person's life that they can switch on and off. Also, I was not trying to " catch " you in anything...not in a manner that would have me say ah-HA! This is a MUCH more serious line of conversation. You reduce intelligent and sometimes very difficult decisions as being a product of brainwashing...across the board.



Not always and not in all cases.
I was talking in broad generalities upthread....
From the POV of memes moving in a population...
I do get that you're ticked off, cos you think that I'm implying everyone is an unthinking robot...
I'm not, btw, I don't think absolutely everyone chooses not to think for themselves... 

All that^ really was peripheral to my actual point, which was about - what's really going on in DIMs...




> My desiring to be in a slightly smaller body becomes my being slightly fat negative...


Yeah, maybe... I'm not hugely invested in arguing that with you...


> your desires for your own body depend on the availability of certain others...and because of that convenient fact, you get to say, " hey, look, I gained some weight last month, so I am fat positive ", and when you lose that weight, because you have ' switched ', you are not fat negative,


Nooooo, I don't lose weight cos I have "switched"...
I have never deliberately lost any weight...
I lose weight, involuntarily:
When I'm sick (I had my tonsils out, cos tonsilitis made me puke = weightloss)
When I don't get to train (cos both my muscle mass and appetite drop)
When I'm down on myself
When I'm sleep deprived
When there isn't ethical, safe food around to eat (depending where I am in the world)
When I'm too skint to afford enough good, nutritious food
- maintaining my weight upwards requires effort, for me, to date.



> because there is the possibility of always another adventure, right around the corner.


^Actually that last bit, there, is exactly how I try to live my life.  In a general sense, not in a love-em-and-leave-em-sense... It being hard to find someone I'm compatible with, I'm inclined to love-em-and-stay-with-em....



> Fat people who are full-time fat ... we have to just try and get to the only voice in our heads that matter.........our own.



Yes. Sure. Absolutely. Fine.
Nothing I've said here has been about trying to change the minds of fat people about what they should do with their bodies.

What I've been addressing is - 
FAs coming to DIMs need to ignore that "Where Big Is Beautiful" tag at the top. Cos *DIMs really isn't about that* anymore. *It's a support group *"Where All Bodies Are Beautiful - When Their Wearers Are Happy With Themselves, Which May Require Weight Loss " or something....
It's a very different place from the description on the top bar.
And FAs shouldn't expect it to be somewhere safe to express FA type feelings - like mourning of weightloss....
Cos they're gonna be disappointed...
And they're gonna get slapped down...
That is all.

Over to you for the last word.


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## mossystate (Sep 19, 2010)

Yeah, you totally didn't understand. Goodnight, Gracie.


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## imfree (Sep 19, 2010)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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## Dromond (Sep 19, 2010)

That post didn't need to be made, man.


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## Dromond (Sep 19, 2010)

joswitch said:


> [much snippage] Observations of what is.
> That is all.



It seems I'm not the obtuse one here. You are projecting your issue onto the board as a whole. I quite simply don't care that some FA's may be horrified that women might want to lose weight. People simply don't go from super sized to skinny. It doesn't happen. Women who want to lose weight to increase their mobility, feel better about themselves, for medical reasons, WHATEVER, don't need to take your feelings into account. You, nor I, matter to them. It's their body, and they get to decide what to do with it. It doesn't make them fat haters. It isn't a disaster of epic proportions. It's their choice. You have no say.

As for the people supporting their choice, I don't for a second see how that equals fat hate, either. If you don't like what this community has become, there is always Fantasy Feeder.


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## joswitch (Sep 20, 2010)

Dromond said:


> 1- It seems I'm not the obtuse one here.
> 2- You are projecting your issue onto the board as a whole.
> 3- I quite simply don't care that some FA's may be horrified that women might want to lose weight.
> 4- People simply don't go from super sized to skinny. It doesn't happen.


1- Your epic fail to address what I said, as as opposed to what you imagine I said, indicates otherwise.
2- No.
3- So what? I don't care that you don't care. You don't care that I don't care that you don't care. Who does care?
4- Reality frequently disagrees with you. How terribly inconvenient for you.


> Women who want to lose weight to increase their mobility, feel better about themselves, for medical reasons, WHATEVER, don't need to take your feelings into account. You, nor I, matter to them. It's their body, and they get to decide what to do with it.
> *snip*
> It's their choice. You have no say.


^I particularly enjoyed your angrily banging the table here... while you vehemently agree with me. After all I did say:
*of course these people have the right to:
- do want they want with their bodies
- say what they want about their bodies*
upthread, and I bolded it, specially for you, to save you having to regurgitate this particular freeze-dried, reconstituted rant again.


> 5- It doesn't make them fat haters. *snip* As for the people supporting their choice, I don't for a second see how that equals fat hate, either.


5- I never used the word hate(rs). 
Fat neutral, or somewhat negative does not = hate.
It's not the same as fat positive, either.

I really don't see (or care) why you have such a huge problem with my pointing out how DIMs has changed from what it says on the tin.
Now it's a support group: 
"*Where All Bodies Are Beautiful - When Their Wearers Are Happy With Themselves, Which May Require Weight Loss* " or something....
Surely it's better to point that out, rather than leave clueless FAs to stumble in here thinking it's somewhere safe to express FA type feelings - like mourning of weightloss....
Cos, yeah, you don't care about that, and you don't wanna hear it.
Pointing that the fuck out, might mean less of it.
Which is what you want, right?
Not that I care.
About what you want.
Of course.


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## Tracyarts (Sep 20, 2010)

All I can say, is that reading this thread strongly reinforces that I made the right choice not to marry a man who is exclusively into fat women. Because if instead of celebrating my weight loss for the improved health, improved mobility, increased life potential, and increased ability to do things that bring me happiness and fulfillment it brings me, he was getting butt-hurt and mourning the loss of the precious poundage it was taking away from him, I'd start to seriously wonder what he valued more in the relationship. Me or my fatness, and it would make me feel a little less of a person inside.

Tracy


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## Jes (Sep 20, 2010)

DeniseW said:


> but you did indeed have a go at him first and once again, I never said you shouldn't have posted, sorry, if you're looking for a fight, not in the mood....



I am absolutely not looking for a fight, DeniseW.


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## Carrie (Sep 20, 2010)

Tracyarts said:


> All I can say, is that reading this thread strongly reinforces that I made the right choice not to marry a man who is exclusively into fat women. Because if instead of celebrating my weight loss for the improved health, improved mobility, increased life potential, and increased ability to do things that bring me happiness and fulfillment it brings me, he was getting butt-hurt and mourning the loss of the precious poundage it was taking away from him, I'd start to seriously wonder what he valued more in the relationship. Me or my fatness, and it would make me feel a little less of a person inside.
> 
> Tracy


Big difference between FAs here posting about how they feel about some random celebrity they'll never meet losing weight and how they'd react to a partner they love losing weight. I'm not saying none of then would be dicks about it, but it doesn't quite seem fair to draw conclusions about how an entire group of people would behave in a relationship based on this celebrity-centric phenomenon.


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## superodalisque (Sep 20, 2010)

Carrie said:


> Big difference between FAs here posting about how they feel about some random celebrity they'll never meet losing weight and how they'd react to a partner they love losing weight. I'm not saying none of then would be dicks about it, but it doesn't quite seem fair to draw conclusions about how an entire group of people would behave in a relationship based on this celebrity-centric phenomenon.



not really. i understand your point about celebrity but what about all of the ladies here who've felt a twinge when someone mentions in a negative way that a celebrity is getting fat and "unattractive". most women take it a bit personally as a reflection on her and the type of body they both share. so when people are negatively observing the bodies of celebrities all women's bodies are being put on a slab and observed negatively, commented on and being required to fit someone else's standard whether they're fat or thin. its a blatant statement about what someone finds acceptable or unacceptable in the body of another. 

why have a requirement for women who are not what you desire when there are so many more who are? why not just say you found her adorable fat and it was a shame she felt uncomfortable that way? is it really necessary to say how unattractive she is to you now or how much she let you down since she refuses to fit your personal perimeters? there is something kind of punitive and resentful in that where there is no authority to be. why force women into a box of being a type rather than who they want to be or naturally are? its not as though there aren't any other women in the world who are fat. no one owes it to anyone to shape their body into a fantasy image fat or thin. the very idea that a person must be pandered to by all women in that way is disrespectful to women and who they are as individual people. no one owes anyone their physical identity. that smacks of a kind of priviledge that no one should ask for or deserve. and i agree with Tracy. i think that kind of pointed disapproval does not limit itself to celebrities but often translates into a kind of entitlement in personal relationships with women thats inappropriate on any level. no woman owes anyone, particularly a stranger, anything except to be herself.


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## Saoirse (Sep 20, 2010)

Tracyarts said:


> All I can say, is that reading this thread strongly reinforces that I made the right choice not to marry a man who is exclusively into fat women. Because if instead of celebrating my weight loss for the improved health, improved mobility, increased life potential, and increased ability to do things that bring me happiness and fulfillment it brings me, he was getting butt-hurt and mourning the loss of the precious poundage it was taking away from him, I'd start to seriously wonder what he valued more in the relationship. Me or my fatness, and it would make me feel a little less of a person inside.
> 
> Tracy



I share this sentiment.

I hope Jos realizes how he's making FA's look baaaddd.


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## Saoirse (Sep 20, 2010)

joswitch said:


> I'm a thinnish person who got a lot of abuse growing up for being "too thin", I do get the "thin abuse" angle...



And you decided to change that.

But a woman who wants to lose weight for personal issues is just giving in to societal demands?

WOW.


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## wrestlingguy (Sep 20, 2010)

Carrie said:


> Big difference between FAs here posting about how they feel about some random celebrity they'll never meet losing weight and how they'd react to a partner they love losing weight. I'm not saying none of then would be dicks about it, but it doesn't quite seem fair to draw conclusions about how an entire group of people would behave in a relationship based on this celebrity-centric phenomenon.



Great post, Carrie.

I had non Hodgkins Lymphoma in 1981.

Having it opened doors up for me that without, I would not have seen. I had 39 radiation treatments. I lost hair from the radiation, I had no energy to work out or run, as I had in the past. My body began to go through changes, as I lost a significant amount of weight due to not being able to keep food down.

My first wife stayed with me the entire time, and we made love often, as if nothing had changed. I don't know if it's true of all women (I think it can be said of almost all of the women I've been with in my life) that when they love you, they love you through any physical change you go through.

I was blessed inasmuch as I feel that way about the women in my life. I think that when you're in LOVE (not lust, and I think a distinction needs to be made here), those physical changes don't have the same effect as when you're in lust.

To me, that is where most guys get stuck at.........lust. Sure, guys may "feel" love, but I don't think it's the same kind of love that women feel, otherwise, they'd be more than able to go through those changes. Years ago, I had a buddy of mine leave his wife less than a year after she had a mastectomy, and it hurt me to hear his reasons, which were all about the physical differences.

Now I'm not saying every guy should go get cancer like I did, but I do think they need to learn the distinction between love and lust. Fewer women would be hurt by false proclamations of love and fidelity, and guys who "get it" would be more supportive in loving their girlfriend, fiancee' or wife at the times when they may need to feel that love the most.

Please don't lump all of us into the "we don't care about anything but the secks" category. Some of us kinda get it.........


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## superodalisque (Sep 20, 2010)

joswitch said:


> You've enormously missed my point.
> 
> My point was WHY is it seen as offensive, at all, on a board whose tagline is "Where Big Is Beautiful"...



because the rest of the tagline isn't "...and where little is ugly"


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## Carrie (Sep 20, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> not really. i understand your point about celebrity but what about all of the ladies here who've felt a twinge when someone mentions in a negative way that a celebrity is getting fat and "unattractive". most women take it a bit personally as a reflection on her and the type of body they both share. so when people are negatively observing the bodies of celebrities all women's bodies are being put on a slab and observed negatively, commented on and being required to fit someone else's standard whether they're fat or thin. its a blatant statement about what someone finds acceptable or unacceptable in the body of another.
> 
> why have a requirement for women who are not what you desire when there are so many more who are? why not just say you found her adorable fat and it was a shame she felt uncomfortable that way? is it really necessary to say how unattractive she is to you now or how much she let you down since she refuses to fit your personal perimeters? there is something kind of punitive and resentful in that where there is no authority to be. why force women into a box of being a type rather than who they want to be or naturally are? its not as though there aren't any other women in the world who are fat. no one owes it to anyone to shape their body into a fantasy image fat or thin. the very idea that a person must be pandered to by all women in that way is disrespectful to women and who they are as individual people. no one owes anyone their physical identity. that smacks of a kind of priviledge that no one should ask for or deserve. and i agree with Tracy. i think that kind of pointed disapproval does not limit itself to celebrities but often translates into a kind of entitlement in personal relationships with women thats inappropriate on any level. no woman owes anyone, particularly a stranger, anything except to be herself.


Read and noted, but I stand by what I said. I think it's unfair and inaccurate to draw a conclusion about how a group of men conduct themselves in relationships based on what a few guys have said in this thread about a celebrity with whom they have no real connection. 


wrestlingguy said:


> Great post, Carrie.
> 
> I had non Hodgkins Lymphoma in 1981.
> 
> ...


Exactly, Phil. Thank you so much for sharing this story, it does a far better job of expressing what I was trying to say than I did. 

And I'm very glad you read that pesky Hodgkins the riot card and sent it on its way. :happy:


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## superodalisque (Sep 20, 2010)

Carrie said:


> Read and noted, but I stand by what I said. I think it's unfair and inaccurate to draw a conclusion about how a group of men conduct themselves in relationships based on what a few guys have said in this thread about a celebrity with whom they have no real connection.
> 
> :



its not all guys i was speaking of but the guys who specifically share the exact same attitudes about what women owe them as a few might who posted here. i was not speaking of absolutes. most guys could care less as quite a number have already mentioned on this thread. guys who are not totally invested in the size of all women both known and unknown are definitely not included in that group. they are just as cognizant of making those kinds of statements about thin women as they would be about making them about fat women because they don't feel either owes them anything anyway whether they prefer them or not.


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## Tracyarts (Sep 20, 2010)

" its not all guys i was speaking of but the guys who specifically share the exact same attitudes about what women owe them as a few might who posted here. "

What always puzzled me is how some men invest themselves in the bodies of women they aren't involved with. It's like if any random fat woman loses weight they are seen as taking that precious, precious, poundage away from those men; who sometimes take it so personally that it's almost as if they felt some kind of entitlement to the woman's fatness. 

Tracy


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## MizzSnakeBite (Sep 20, 2010)

Saoirse said:


> And you decided to change that.
> 
> But a woman who wants to lose weight for personal issues is just giving in to societal demands?
> 
> WOW.



Of course she is! 

We don't want him to lose his erection, after all.


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## joswitch (Sep 21, 2010)

thirtiesgirl said:


> No, I wasn't.



Sometimes I feel like I'm talking with sign language... in the dark...


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## joswitch (Sep 21, 2010)

mossystate said:


> No...really...why didn't you fight the brainwashing. You so hate that so many fat people can't/don't/won't.



Postscript:
^You used the word "hate". 
I hadn't spotted that in the wordstorm earlier.
I do not hate anyone for doing what they want with their own bodies.


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## joswitch (Sep 21, 2010)

Saoirse said:


> I share this sentiment.
> 
> I hope Jos realizes how he's making FA's look baaaddd.



You didn't read the thread, did you?


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## joswitch (Sep 21, 2010)

Saoirse said:


> And you decided to change that.
> 
> But a woman who wants to lose weight for personal issues is just giving in to societal demands?
> 
> WOW.



ZzzoooooooooooOOOOOoooooooooommmmm

...that was the point, flashing past you at 100miles an hour....

Seriously, don't even quote me.


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## joswitch (Sep 21, 2010)

MizzSnakeBite said:


> Of course she is!
> 
> We don't want him to lose his erection, after all.



That's right, it's only about erections.:doh:
Amazing powers of deduction.
Well done.
You win a tiny, tiny prize.
It is made of smug.
Enjoy it.

Oh sorry, it's a bit sticky.


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## Jes (Sep 21, 2010)

joswitch said:


> ZzzoooooooooooOOOOOoooooooooommmmm
> 
> ...that was the point, flashing past you at 100miles an hour....
> 
> .



or put another way: I'm rubber and you're glue; whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.

MOM! SOMEONE'S BEING MEAN TO ME!

good god, Jos--it just got stupid(er) up in here. C'mon, man. You're better than this. Even you.


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## joswitch (Sep 21, 2010)

Jes said:


> or put another way: I'm rubber and you're glue; whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.
> 
> MOM! SOMEONE'S BEING MEAN TO ME!
> 
> good god, Jos--it just got stupid(er) up in here. C'mon, man. You're better than this. Even you.



No really, when someone only reads a redundant, irrelevant diversion at the end of a 3 page debate about something else, latches onto one sentence and hails it like they've exposed a damning revelation - I'm not going to take them seriously, or waste my time counter posting.


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## Dmitra (Sep 21, 2010)

I really try to stay out of thread brawls like this one but, O my freaking Go-ha-ha-od, why is Joswitch being pilloried like this? I've read the whole thing and simply do not understand why the expression of his feelings of sadness and dismay have become virtually the anti-christ of FA-dom.

Hello? I thought we as women wanted to UNDERSTAND men and get them to spill the beans of FEELINGS more often. I don't feel threatened by his feelings, in fact, I share them: Sophie was a healthy girl and now she looks a post-chemotherapy cancer survivor. Does it ultimately matter what I think about her decision, though? No. Do I lose my fat feminist "card" for this? No. 

Considering how many women of all flavors offer themselves for view and lust-inspiration, it's stupid and sexist to insinuate that one guy's potential lost boners are the sole inspiration for his feelings of dismay. Turn the sexes around and visualize: one woman trying to express her opinion and being told she's baaaad/hateful/controlling/etc. by multiple men? More than a few, I'm hopeful, would be righteously upset at the group attack mentality.

I read an interesting essay, The Responsibility of Beauty, yesterday that seems more pertinent now. It's by model Paulina Porizkova, whom I've always admired as an honest, straightforward woman despite disagreeing with her on certain things. Basically she's saying embrace what makes you you, your intelligence and your uniqueness.

I can't say whether Sophie, Wynnona, or Jennifer (or Rikki, Carnie, etc.) are being true to themselves but I'd defend their choices because it's what they want, even though I, or Joswitch and anyone else, may be saddened as a result. Certainly it's everyone's choice, and right, to do (or violently struggle to attempt to do, I'm looking at you diets) what they want with their own body but it's also everyone's right to have a reaction to another's change. And, to have a reaction to that person's reaction in turn, as long as it doesn't degenerate into sniping accusations and harassment.



joswitch said:


> No really, when someone only reads a redundant, irrelevant diversion at the end of a 3 page debate about something else, latches onto one sentence and hails it like they've exposed a damning revelation - I'm not going to take them seriously, or waste my time counter posting.


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## Saoirse (Sep 21, 2010)

joswitch said:


> ZzzoooooooooooOOOOOoooooooooommmmm
> 
> ...that was the point, flashing past you at 100miles an hour....
> 
> Seriously, don't even quote me.




HAHAHAHA what the hell are you... a 15 year old girl? hahaha!


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## joswitch (Sep 21, 2010)

Saoirse said:


> HAHAHAHA what the hell are you... a 15 year old girl? hahaha!



Sadly, not.


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## Jes (Sep 21, 2010)

joswitch said:


> Sadly, not.



maybe a 13-year -old one in an English boarding school, then...? *hopeful face*


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## joswitch (Sep 21, 2010)

Jes said:


> maybe a 13-year -old one in an English boarding school, then...? *hopeful face*



Hey, when I want a double act? I'll let you know upfront....

Otherwise, leave the punchlines to me...


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