# Introducing John LucasBBW lover & more



## johnlucas (Jun 18, 2006)

*sigh* I've had this site on my favorites for awhile checking in reading posts but I've never touched down & introduced myself.

Hello everybody here at Dimensions Forums. My name is John Lucas & I am a lover & appreciater of the Big Beautiful Woman.

I study as a hobby the self-image issues facing different social groups & often I use the Fat Acceptance movement as an example to other maligned groups that you *CAN* love yourself *AS* yourself without change, without altering yourself to someone else's ideals.

I am proud of the progress fat people have made in standing up for their own worth in a society that still demonizes this body type.
Shows like "The Biggest Loser" (appalling title!  ) & "Celebrity Fit Club" just add on to the popular notion that fat people or even slightly plump people aren't attractive.
And it pisses me off quite frankly.

I want there to be a world where *EVERYBODY* has a place at the table. I want *EVERYBODY* to feel not only accepted but CELEBRATED & DESIRED. All types, all sizes, all shapes, all kinds.
And I'm trying to find tangible solutions to helping overcome these self-image complexes so that they can live life freely & openly. So that they will come out of these self-imposed shells they hide in & go out to meet people without worry or fear of rejection. And to be able to weather any rejections that may come their way STILL secure in their worth & value.

It's not easy though. Not at all.
Even here as much progress as has been made in the Fat Acceptance Movement there are still mountains to climb before the fat people are truly free.

Just read a couple of posts one on a woman who wants to tell a BHM that she REALLY likes him & find him & his form attractive. That she lusts for him & loves him. But he's wary because he's may think she's toying with him or putting him on. He's not used to being seen as attractive as all the plaque of society has weighed him down on his self-image & worth.
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5766

The Female Fat Admirer which according to this post is more common than you think.
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8510

Read another post with BBW's who are uneasy in their roles as sex symbols to Male Fat Admirers.
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8449

Similar to the sentiments of some large-breasted women they don't want to be seen "as a piece of meat" to be drooled over & lusted over.
That they want someone to love them for MORE than their fat & weight.

Ironic, isn't it?
In a society that largely dictates that fat people have no ability to attract we NOW have a situation where fat women feel intruded upon when one lusts after them just like supermodels in the magazines.

The confusing phenomenon is told from the inverse side in the same thread where some said they didn't want someone to tolerate their fat & size for their personality. To date someone "in spite" of their size.

There's more work to be done. They have a point in that they don't want to be used because of their size but then again they may rule out potential matches by not letting the admirer get a little caught up in the excitement.
Who DOESN'T want to be desired & mesmerizing to a mate?
That's a main component of the whole shebang.

The movement's still in growing pains as fat people & their admirers try to strike a balance where one is loved Mind, Body, AND Soul.

To REALLY know that you are not a niche or "alternative" to so-called "real beauty" or "the mainstream" fat people must participate in ALL of the aspects of the dating scene. Everything DOESN'T have to be a long-term relationship or a full meeting of the minds. Sometimes it's just carnal & one-night stands.
When fat people are able to experience comfortably & assuredly what the thinner people in society already do & take for granted that's when the complex is REALLY broken.
To be able to marry & stay together for 50/60 years.
To be able to date one, break up & date another & another if you so choose.
To be able to have random sex with somebody.
To be able to do all of this without mindfulness of your size & weight.
When YOU are in control, that's when you have overcome.

The movement has succeeded in making BBW's sex symbols at least on the internet.
Next is acceptance & freedom from discrimination in the workplace.
Prominent Leading Roles in mass media.
Leadership positions.
Social accomodation toward size in airplane seating & such.
Clothing & its variety.
Activities suited for fatter people.
Less doctor scare tactics about weight & health.

You all are on your way.
It is only a matter of time before fatter people are viewed less as plagues & more like the human beings that we all are.
Where people will stop being closet FA's & it becomes as common as seeing a BHM poster boy or BBW calendar girl on someone's wall. Where fat kids don't have to go through that social struggle being the size they are.

I'm proud & happy of this movement & when I talk to other groups such as flat-chested women, short-heighted men, small-genitaled men, anorexics & any other group that feels ostracized or not desired in society, I use you all as an example of people summoning & pooling their own strength from within & rebelling against what some society said should be.

And they can understand because everybody knows the hell fat people have been through in society. They may have contributed to some of it even.
They will understand what I am trying to do.
And they will know that the true goal is to get *EVERYBODY* of all types a place at the table where they can feel accepted, desired, & loved.
That's what every human being wants.

That will improve human relations & reduce the tensions between us if we achieve this.
The day the Creator made us different from one another was the day humanity was doomed to suffer this fate. We are NOT all created equal. We are nowhere NEAR the same. We are all different.
It is our job to find the power & beauty in each form & type so that we can stand proud knowing our value to ourselves & to others.

My name is John Lucas, soldier to repair the human mosaic, an admirer of women in general, & dedicated admirer of the Big Beautiful Woman.

Thanks for making through my long-winded ramblings & more to come!
John Lucas


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## Tzetrik (Jun 19, 2006)

erm... Hi!


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## Carrie (Jun 19, 2006)

Yes, hi! And welcome.


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## AnnMarie (Jun 19, 2006)

If anyone ever needed to be H'd, it's this guy. 

Welcome to the boards, enjoy your time!


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## Ned Sonntag (Jun 19, 2006)

(kinky friedman) 

Ol ben lucas had a lot of mucus
Comin right out of his nose.
He picked and picked till it made you sick:doh: 
But back again it grows.

Well, ol ben lucas had a lot of mucus
Comin right out of his nose.
He picked and picked till it made you sick,
But back again it grows.

When its cotton picking time in texas,
Boys, its booger picking time for ben.
Hed raise that finger mean and hostile
Stick it in that waitin nostril,
Here he comes with a green one once again.

All right, pick it, eric!

Ol ben lucas had a lot of mucus
Comin right out of his nose.
He picked and picked till it made you sick,
But back again it grows.

Everybody!
Ol ben lucas had a lot of mucus
Comin right out of his nose,
He picked and picked till it made you sick
But back again it grows.


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## SamanthaNY (Jun 19, 2006)

Hi John Lucas. Welcome to the boards. I read your impressively long intro with interest. 


johnlucas said:


> I study as a hobby the self-image issues facing different social groups & often I use the Fat Acceptance movement as an example to other maligned groups


Your dedication to furthering causes is admirable. But I must admit that a red flag went up for me when I read this sentence. I don't think I personally want to be pointed out as an example to any other person or group. I just want to be part of the norm. When you use "us" as an example - aren't you further separating us out? I think that might be what we're fighting against to begin with. Just a thought. 


> fat people must participate in ALL of the aspects of the dating scene.
> When YOU are in control, that's when you have overcome.


I think we already do that. Not sure where you're going with this one, but the flags are waving again. 


> I'm proud & happy of this movement & when I talk to other groups such as flat-chested women, short-heighted men, small-genitaled men, anorexics & any other group that feels ostracized or not desired in society, I use you all as an example of people summoning & pooling their own strength from within & rebelling against what some society said should be.


Oh, stop now. Flat chested women? Small genitiled men? You "talk" to groups of these people? Do they pay you for this? Or do you just corral hapless () un-well-endowed mall shoppers? Maybe you have a mailing list of anorexics - that I can believe, but the others? Pull someone else's legs, mine are long enough. But again, I'm not sure Fat People want to be portrayed as poster children for any one else's social challenge. Just my opinion. 


> And they can understand because everybody knows the hell fat people have been through in society.


They do? Isn't that exactly what size acceptance is based on? That everybody _doesn't_ know? That they don't get it? 


> They will understand what I am trying to do.


Okay, cuz I'm still not quite sure. 


> That will improve human relations & reduce the tensions between us if we achieve this.


Wouldn't that be lovely? Sounds a little too simplistic though. 


> My name is John Lucas, soldier to repair the human mosaic, an admirer of women in general, & dedicated admirer of the Big Beautiful Woman.
> Thanks for making through my long-winded ramblings & more to come!
> John Lucas


Again, welcome to the boards, John Lucas. It's a great group of folks, and I hope you become an integral part. I hope you'll take some time to enjoy yourself here, have some fun. Take a break from the soldiering for a bit. Ever seen a dog in a hat?


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## ripley (Jun 19, 2006)

Hello and welcome, John! 

I too am a soldier for the undesirable! If we don't take up their cause, who will? I remember when I was a guest speaker at the Miniscule PeePee and Little Nubbin Bewbie Association....I told them "You should see fat people! You are brothers and sisters under the skin...unite!" Have you ever attended any of the MPLNBA symposia? We may have even met! 

Perhaps you've read my dissertation on the medical and social benefits of using liposuctioned fat from "overweight" people to augment breast size and penis girth? After all, no man has ever had to buy two airplane seats because he has a fat...well, you know. It's a win-win situation! 

Again, welcome to the boards! I look forward to many great conversations with you.


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## dreamer72fem (Jun 19, 2006)

Hey there....welcome to the boards.
Stacey


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## johnlucas (Jun 19, 2006)

SamanthaNY said:


> Hi John Lucas. Welcome to the boards. I read your impressively long intro with interest.



Thanks for the warm welcome everybody. And before things get out of hand I'm gonna clear up some misunderstandings, OK? Want us to be on the same page.



> *johnlucas:* I study as a hobby the self-image issues facing different social groups & often I use the Fat Acceptance movement as an example to other maligned groups
> ================
> Your dedication to furthering causes is admirable. But I must admit that a red flag went up for me when I read this sentence. I don't think I personally want to be pointed out as an example to any other person or group. I just want to be part of the norm. When you use "us" as an example - aren't you further separating us out? I think that might be what we're fighting against to begin with. Just a thought.



Thank you SamanthaNY for the compliment. When I said that above I meant that I show people who feel badly about themselves on whatever self-image issue they face the progress of THIS movement as a standard showing how everyone can overcome & defeat complexes on self-image imposed by self & society.
No need for red flags here.

I want to show them YOUR success so that they know THEY can be equally successful in conquering their issues.
I'm not AT ALL implying that fat people are irregular or abnormal. Don't get me wrong. In reality I'm showing the common thread between people's differing issues with their appearances. I believe ALL groups & types should learn from each other to gain better understanding about others AND themselves. Forums are EXCELLENT resources for learning about how people feel. You get the straight-from-the-heart stories from people's personal experiences & I think that is valuable.

People only know about their own dealings. To learn from someone who has different experiences in life can broaden the horizons & hopes of that learner.

Yes, all humans have common threads but NO there are things that only people of that type can intimately understand. I am a man & I cannot know exactly what women go through. We are both human beings & there are things we have in common that I CAN relate & understand but at the same time there are things that a man knows only and a woman knows only.
To bridge the gap we must learn from each other.

This is what I've done lurking & reading various forums on a variety of issues. And I STILL have much learning to do. But I have learned a lot reading the experiences that are not my own.

I am & have always been skinny. 6 foot tall. 145 pounds. I CANNOT understand in detail what a fat person goes through growing up. I can see some of it from afar & relate on being ostracized because we've ALL had experience with that but what do I REALLY know about the life & struggles of someone growing up in this society who is fat?

For me to just disregard & ignore someone else's challenges will ENSURE that the discrimination & ostracization NEVER goes away.
I'm black. And there are white, asian, etc. people who want to understand just what challenges black people go through. Do I erect a barrier forbidding them from learning about my kind & the lives we live?

How CAN we be one, how CAN we be all together, all normal if barriers exist to understanding each other? Barriers & walls only build distrust & misunderstanding.

I believe by telling other people of your movement I am NOT separating you out and acutally bringing you more IN. They will see what you have in *common* & how some of the same themes pop up in their struggles.
The success & progress of this movement can help other people in starting theirs. Whether it be a national one or a personal one.



> *johnlucas:* fat people must participate in ALL of the aspects of the dating scene.
> When YOU are in control, that's when you have overcome.
> ====================================
> I think we already do that. Not sure where you're going with this one, but the flags are waving again.



SamanthaNY, some may have it under control but there are plenty of posts here as we speak with people having difficulty feeling comfortable with admirers or suitors. A lot of distrust no doubt caused from the residues of the social stigma placed upon large-sized people. They can't tell if the people are being genuine in their admiration or are just putting them on. Or in some cases looking to exploit them. Still some confusion here. That's why this group exists, right?
The battle is not won yet.



> *johnlucas:* I'm proud & happy of this movement & when I talk to other groups such as flat-chested women, short-heighted men, small-genitaled men, anorexics & any other group that feels ostracized or not desired in society, I use you all as an example of people summoning & pooling their own strength from within & rebelling against what some society said should be.
> ===============================
> Oh, stop now. Flat chested women? Small genitiled men? You "talk" to groups of these people? Do they pay you for this? Or do you just corral hapless () un-well-endowed mall shoppers? Maybe you have a mailing list of anorexics - that I can believe, but the others? Pull someone else's legs, mine are long enough. But again, I'm not sure Fat People want to be portrayed as poster children for any one else's social challenge. Just my opinion.



You don't believe me, do you? I've set off your cynic guarddog it seems.
I admit I'm an unusual person. Most people don't bother studying stuff like this & I think that's the problem. I want this world to have a better understanding of each other & each other's challenges. Self-image issues I believe are the root of a lot of problems that face the world. The insecurities become poisonous to civilization I believe. I'm trying to figure out TANGIBLY not just philosophically how to solve them.

YES. I *DO* talk to & study these groups.
In this forum here below I just recently counseled a woman who sought out my opinion in a Private Message about getting breast implants. A flat-chested woman who was uneasy with her appearance.

*BreastTalk Community Forums*
http://forum.breasttalk.co.uk/category-view.asp
She wanted an alternative MALE viewpoint on the issue.
I told her that she should try celebrating her form & find the beauty within it.
Told her my opinion would be to NIX the surgery.

I do this on my own free will. No payment for this whatsoever. Like I said I'm committed to trying to beat these issues. I want to get to the bottom of them because what I'm seeing in the culture disturbs me. Plastic surgery EVERYWHERE & treated as normal??? Shows like "The Swan" & "The Biggest Loser"??? That *stuff* (keeping it clean) makes me SICK.

You wanna see my first post to a forum of small-genitaled men? (possibly the hardest group to crack the image complex on)
*My first post to Measurection.com*
http://www.measurection.com/forums/...ectioncentral&Number=208789&fpart=&PHPSESSID=

I have found studying this group of people that they have EVEN MORE difficulties than the difficulties faced by fat people. And if you don't believe me read that site. They have an EVEN STEEPER hill to climb in getting to self-acceptance & celebration.

And because I wasn't small-genitaled I had to learn what they faced in society by reading their experiences. I joined that site YEARS ago & just studied before I finally posted this month.
If you read that post you will get my long history of how I fell into this peculiar hobby.
I'm just curious about why things are the way they are & that's what motivates me.



> *johnlucas:* And they can understand because everybody knows the hell fat people have been through in society.
> ==============================
> They do? Isn't that exactly what size acceptance is based on? That everybody _doesn't_ know? That they don't get it?


 
They may not know your PERSONAL hells but they can't NOT know how maligned fat people are in society. And some may have contributed to it. Either as bystander or enacter or victim we all know that fat people aren't valued as they should be in this society.
They WILL understand in DEPTH once they read your experiences.
Which is why I'm baffled at your defensiveness when I mentioned that I relate the existence of your movement to other groups in order to help them.
They can see people similarly maligned take their own power & resist the negatives of the culture that wishes them to subexist. I'm telling them YOUR story to bring them hope. 'Cause you all's story is a story of hope.



> *johnlucas:* They will understand what I am trying to do.
> ====================================
> Okay, cuz I'm still not quite sure.


 
Well then let me say it again. I want EVERYBODY to feel loved, valued & accepted as who they are. I want to end the image complexes that threaten to cripple the human race. I don't want to see people in pain. I want people to be carefree in society secure in the knowledge that they belong. I want to end the prejudices & stigmatization facing certain social groups. I'm trying to put up a counter to the virtual inevitability of exclusionary eugenics. Eugenics that seek to "weed out" the "undesirables". I want civilization to step up & accomodate all types of people. I want plastic surgery (the precursor to exclusionary eugenics) not to be as normalized as it is in society going back to its role as repairer of true defects/disfigurements rather than this vanity "I'm not good enough" surgery we see today. I want different types of people in leadership roles. I want plentiful media representation of all the types we are. I want to expand the notions of beauty. I want to break down the barriers that divide us all.
Utopian perhaps but that's what I'm trying to do & it's d*mn sure better than just accepting things the way they are now.

I HATE the phrase: "That's just the way it is." I don't believe in that & I don't accept that.



> *johnlucas:* That will improve human relations & reduce the tensions between us if we achieve this.
> =============================
> Wouldn't that be lovely? Sounds a little too simplistic though.



You're a bit cynical but that's OK.  Gaining understanding ALWAYS improves things. Knowledge is advancement. When people went out on that limb & did what was thought to be impossible doubters existed then too. The doubters learned. Solving the self-image complex is only the beginning, SamanthaNY.



> *johnlucas:* My name is John Lucas, soldier to repair the human mosaic, an admirer of women in general, & dedicated admirer of the Big Beautiful Woman.
> Thanks for making through my long-winded ramblings & more to come!
> ====================================
> Again, welcome to the boards, John Lucas. It's a great group of folks, and I hope you become an integral part. I hope you'll take some time to enjoy yourself here, have some fun. Take a break from the soldiering for a bit. Ever seen a dog in a hat?



Thanks again, SamanthaNY. Put away your red flags. You'll soon find out that I am very genuine. This is my real name & I always post with my real name & my real thoughts.

And trust me every topic I put here is not gonna be this heavy-handed. I like to have fun too.
But when I first come to a forum I always Introduce myself telling all why I'm here to join you.

No, never seen a dog in a hat.
Only in a tux. 
John Lucas


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## ThatFatGirl (Jun 19, 2006)

Why don't you start all over again and tell us about YOU... 

Did you take a chubby girl to the prom?

Have you ever actually gotten a woody over a fat girl _herself_.. you know, the person?


What compels you to try to be a savior to so many? This is a _hobby_ for you? 

Do you really think you're qualified to offer counseling to strangers over the net? What is your professional background? Hours of Montel, Sally, and Oprah don't quite cut it.


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## ThatFatGirl (Jun 19, 2006)

P.S. - Welcome to the Boards...


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## johnlucas (Jun 19, 2006)

ThatFatGirl said:


> Why don't you start all over again and tell us about YOU...
> 
> Did you take a chubby girl to the prom?
> 
> ...



Wow, very strange.
Why is everybody so defensive around here?
I'm just a regular man offering my perspective, OK?
Like everybody else.
If you take that stance then nobody should go to support groups like these for feedback or counsel. We should only share these issues with psychologists & psychiatrists. Professional people. Qualified.

Yeah, I like large women. Strike that. I LOVE large women. There's this big girl at work who turns me on who comes in every morning. And I've even vouched for her to her boss about her qualifications on the job because I felt she was getting shafted. She was supposed to be a supervisor. (it worked out in the end though)

No, I WOULDN'T hide the fact that I love fat women from anybody & I've told many people in the open about this.
I wouldn't pull the date in secret/deny in public routine.
Is that verification enough for you?
Is this part of some hazing ritual I'm going through here?

I didn't go to the prom so I can't answer that question outside of yes I WOULD have taken a fat girl & *believe me* not out of pity.

A savior? I'm just trying to help people. Is that wrong?
Should I just be callous & not care about anybody but myself?

I remember having a short friend who now that I look back on it years later had some serous issues with his height. Knowing what I know now I coulda gave him some advice to help him overcome that.
I'm not short so I had no way of knowing the depths of his complex. I only heard him talk about it pejoratively from time to time & he drunk heavily often. He said on occasion that his sister got the good genes.
He was ALSO fat as well & took after his short & stout dark-haired mother (he basically looked like the male version of his mother) while his sister took after their leaner taller blonder father.

Perhaps this led to what could have been a secret depression that caused him to drink a lot. Then again perhaps he just liked to get drunk but maybe if I knew what I know now I could have offered some hope for him & to help him not beat up on himself so much.

Studying the issues is what I termed a hobby. Is that a problem?
I called it a hobby because I'm not doing this for a school paper or an article in print or even getting paid for my time studying the subject.
So YES I would call it a hobby.

Trying to help people from the knowledge I've picked up in my hobby is NOT a hobby. The hobby is the studying.

I've found myself mesmerized by many heavy girls who I worked with & crossed paths with. I'm attracted to many types of women but one of these types is DEFINITELY the BBW.

You know I think I'm learning something else right now.
I've seen this in Measurection.com, the site for small-genitaled men.

Some of the men there seem similarly defensive or resentful toward the WOMEN who post there. As if the woman is an outsider & encroaching on their turf. Even heard some go so far as to say that they would rather not hear from women at all on that site. And no these weren't the gay guys.

I think it's the same theme. Distrust. I get the feeling some of you think I'm trolling this site. Do these posts I put up look like a troll to you???

I've read recently some of the guys here post about the friction between Fat Admirers & Big Beautiful Women. The women are sort of resistant & defensive towards the presence of the FA's to the bewilderment of the FA's.
Like I posted in the top of this thread.
The BHM who got a little antsy & distrustful when the FFA, Female Fat Admirer fancied him.

In case you're wondering, NO, I don't just see you as walking parcels of fat.
What did I say? I said women, didn't I? And if I only saw you as parcels the quality of my posts would not be the same.

I'd just be coming here drooling & talking like a caveman. Or like Homer Simpson "Faaaat...ARGHGHGHGLLGHGLLL."

But no you didn't hear that from me so what's with all this third degree?
I know there are some people out there who misled you in the past but it benefits nobody if you instantly distrust every newcomer to the scene.

If you don't like my unusual interest in studying the self-image subject I'm sorry but this is of interest to me. I want to understand it for myself. And hopefully end some of it.

And if you think the boundaries of my knowledge end with the talk shows then you obviously didn't read all the way through.
That's was my entry into this interest.

Are there any LESS hostile people on this forum I can talk to?
God!  
John Lucas


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## SamanthaNY (Jun 19, 2006)

Thanks for the reply, John. I'm still uncomfortable with the idea of being studied, by you or anyone else. Flags are still waving for me, but I suppose we'll see how things progress. 

Btw, I hope you'll ask for our permission before you share our posts with another, unrelated board. Yes, these are public posts - but... 



> I HATE the phrase: "That's just the way it is." I don't believe in that & I don't accept that.


A word of caution here. Your enthusiasm and passion could possibly be viewed by some as a tad overbearing. Personally, I tend to bristle when new people come in and try to dictate how they think things should be. Your mileage may vary.

I hope you have fun here.


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## GWARrior (Jun 19, 2006)

johnlucas said:


> Are there any LESS hostile people on this forum I can talk to?
> God!
> John Lucas



Some people just enjoy being hostile.

However, Im not one of them. Welcome!


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## mossystate (Jun 19, 2006)

...*blinks*...


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## johnlucas (Jun 19, 2006)

SamanthaNY said:


> Thanks for the reply, John. I'm still uncomfortable with the idea of being studied, by you or anyone else. Flags are still waving for me, but I suppose we'll see how things progress.
> 
> Btw, I hope you'll ask for our permission before you share our posts with another, unrelated board. Yes, these are public posts - but...
> 
> ...



NOW I understand the misreading!  
No, no, no.
I've NEVER shared or posted anybody's *POSTS* from here, no.

I just talked about the movement in general.
The fact that it exists, that's all.
People are not aware that there's any Fat Acceptance movement & I simply verified its existence.

I would never do nothing like that.
And I'm no dictator.
Just see how I post in the future. How's that?

(usually they greet me with flowers when I arrive to new forums *sigh*  )
an embattled John Lucas


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## Miss Vickie (Jun 19, 2006)

Welcome, John.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I think some of the problem you're facing is the perception that you're talking down to us, as though from some higher place. Maybe that's not your intention, but that's how I read your post, initially, and I have to admit it raised my hackles a bit. Having comeone come in, an outsider, if you will (and not even a fat one who's experienced what we have experienced), telling us what to do/how to be/ etc is a little irritating to some of us. You haven't lived in a fat body -- or had a tiny penis (I suppose), or been a woman with small breasts, large labia or any of the other groups you've tried to help -- and so it feels weird, at least to me, to have you tell me how I should act, as a fat woman, in relationships, something I've had 40+ years of experience DOING. 

And I have to ask, what as an amateur "studier" of fringe groups, qualifies you to help us? And why do you think we need help? See what I mean? It just feels a little ... um... pedantic to me, I guess. Some guy coming in, admitting he's an amateur but that we're his hobby and he wants to help us. It just rubs me the wrong way, which is unfortunate because I suspect you are actually a very caring individual. I just can't get past the feeling that I'm being talked down to, or set up, or something.

I think we're pretty receptive to new people here, John. It's just that having someone come in who wants to "study" us and "help" us makes us feel less than the wonderful beings we are. And it probably makes some of us think less of you. Why not get to know us as people? That's how you get chicks, you know, not by studying us.


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## Jes (Jun 19, 2006)

The JohnLucas doesn't like his eggs runny!

Hi, Hasselhof!


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## saucywench (Jun 19, 2006)

Jes said:


> The JohnLucas doesn't like his eggs runny!
> 
> Hi, Hasselhof!


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## mossystate (Jun 19, 2006)

*looks around*

who is bashing the large labia??..huh?..huh???..HUH??!!??

Let my people go!!!!

Vickie..great post


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## Tina (Jun 19, 2006)

Large labia, Vick???

I confess, I couldn't bring myself to do anything beyond a light scan of his post.


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## johnlucas (Jun 19, 2006)

Miss Vickie said:


> Welcome, John.
> 
> I can't speak for anyone else, but I think some of the problem you're facing is the perception that you're talking down to us, as though from some higher place. Maybe that's not your intention, but that's how I read your post, initially, and I have to admit it raised my hackles a bit. Having comeone come in, an outsider, if you will (and not even a fat one who's experienced what we have experienced), telling us what to do/how to be/ etc is a little irritating to some of us. You haven't lived in a fat body -- or had a tiny penis (I suppose), or been a woman with small breasts, large labia or any of the other groups you've tried to help -- and so it feels weird, at least to me, to have you tell me how I should act, as a fat woman, in relationships, something I've had 40+ years of experience DOING.
> 
> ...



 *sigh*
Hold on, hold on, hold on.
If that's how I'm comng across that's not my intention.
I posted those links from current threads just relating a few of the obstacles still facing fat people in regards to acceptance.

I was not telling people what they should or should not do.

See this one?
*"How do you convince him he's hot?"*
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5766
The woman wanted some advice on how to help a fat man she liked understand that she really liked him. The man still caught up in society's stigma doesn't trust her motives. That's all I was saying. He thinks she may be putting him on or making a joke of him. "LoveBHMS" said right in her post:



> He never believed me. Never 'thought of himself as gorgeous'. Was not used to a woman telling him how attractive he was. His lack of confidence was so sad...he was the most wonderful man ever. It ended and i'm miserable.
> 
> How do other ladies deal with a man that doesn't believe you when you tell him how amazingly hot he is? How do you deal with the greater and greater frustration of admiring somebody that does not think you should admire them?



I was just pointing out some obstacles still to overcome in this struggle that's all.

And this one:
*"Dating someone because of or despite their size"*
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8449

The comments in here reminiscent of what big breasted women feel when a person dates them solely for their features. The inverse talking about size being settled for in favor of personality. A variety of comments all throughout the post on the issue from a range of perspectives on the issue.

I read a post earlier which I did not link from FA's who felt blocked out for stating their preference. How they didn't want to scare off the woman. Being an FA was almost a repellant. It was similar to the story of the FFA above.

I was just saying these kinds of things were still issues. That's all.
And that once those were gone the movement will have fully succeeded in its goals.
I was just relating. I never said ALL FAT PEOPLE WILL DO THIS & ALL FAT PEOPLE WILL DO THAT.

I was just introducing my history of what led me to this group. Just a little background. Trying to display my understanding of some of the phenomena.
Like I ALWAYS do everytime I enter a new forum.
I'm not gonna always be talking like this on every issue.

We all study each other just by posting here. We get insight on people's thoughts & feelings. Studying people comes naturally. Everything you say registers into people's understanding. They learn about you the more you say.
It's not like I'm turning you into a Nat'l Geographic special. No, that's not my purpose.

Yes, I DO want to understand some things that go on in a fat person's development. Fat camp & stuff like that. Issues with clothing styles. I wanna learn. But that's not my whole purpose here.

The fact that I DON'T have a small-penis & that I'm NOT a woman & that I DON'T have small-breasts, large labia, etc. makes it all the MORE important for me to learn. How can acceptance come about without understanding?

Why SHOULD I be an outsider? Do I HAVE to be fat to post here?
Are skinny people not accepted here?

See? Everybody misunderstands. I DID NOT SAY the people were my hobby. I just said STUDYING THE ISSUES was my hobby.

You distrust me & I don't know why.
I came here to learn, OK? And see if I can add another perspective to the table like everyone else. If someone comes to me seeking help then I'll give my views but I'm not gonna be overbearing dictating to everybody what to do & what not to do.

If you all think I was talking down to you, that's not what I was doing.
And that greet with flowers thing was just a gag.

I just got here. I will learn about you as people as we go along & post together like in every forum. And you will learn about me a person too & not this scary ivory tower outsider people seem to think I am.

I don't know how you all got that from my post.
When I learned about issues from different groups of people I was better equipped to help those who needed advice.
In a now-defunct site SallyLiplady.com, which celebrated large female genitalia & social issues related to that, a girl was panicked about how her boyfriend would see her. I posted on that site for the pics & the commeraderie of the community. With a helping of understanding the issue & the prejudice. She liked what I said on there (webmaster Sally put my letter to her on front page of site) & asked me my viewpoint in private. And I related my views to her & she felt better about herself.
But I wasn't going around trying to advise those who didn't need it.

And I'm not gonna do it here.
All I'm gonna do is read, learn, say a few words to enrichen the discussion & if someone wants me to elaborate to them personally I'll do that.
And certainly wasn't telling them what to do.

I said so many times in that intro how proud I am of you all. You are strong people. I admire you all. And I think the movement is beautiful that's why I tell so many people about it (not your posts, just the existence of the movement). You overcame a steep hill placed by society & are overcoming everyday. Nobody can tell you you are worthless. Nobody can break your spirit. I admire that, everybody. That makes me happy.

Well I guess I'm gonna be the misunderstood one around here so I better get used to it.
To those who understood what my intro was about, thank you.
Apologies for offending anybody who misred my intentions.
John Lucas


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## SoVerySoft (Jun 19, 2006)

Tina said:


> ...I confess, I couldn't bring myself to do anything beyond a light scan of his post.




Likewise...


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## grey1969 (Jun 20, 2006)

Welcome back Vince........................ Uh, I mean welcome John


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## ScreamingChicken (Jun 20, 2006)

Well, no one can accuse this place of being boring, that's for sure.


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## Ho Ho Tai (Jun 20, 2006)

. . . just splashed all the water out of the bathtub!

It's late, and I don't feel particularly wordy or responsive right now. But you did make a couple of comments which resonated with me, and I will just make a quick response to those.

You said:"I want there to be a world where EVERYBODY has a place at the table. I want EVERYBODY to feel not only accepted but CELEBRATED & DESIRED. All types, all sizes, all shapes, all kinds.
And I'm trying to find tangible solutions to helping overcome these self-image complexes so that they can live life freely & openly."

I'm reminded of the lyrics to this song by Bill Staines from some decades ago. This is the first stanza and there are at least a dozen more. (See:
http://www.niehs.nih.gov/kids/lyrics/critters.htm You can even listen to it there.

It reminds me of something else too, but I'll save that for a later response - maybe tomorrow.

Speaking of birds, we have a number of bird feeders on our deck. It's fun to watch the transcient communities in progress. There may be, say, a dozen birds, of different species, contentedly munching away. Then along comes a Newby - maybe of yet another (and unfamiliar) species, or maybe a bit larger. All the birds will scatter as the newby looks for an unoccupied perch. There is a bit of a scramble - musical perches - but soon, all is as it was before.

So, don't worry. I think that there are plenty of perches here, and plenty of seed, for everybirdy - er, everybody.

By Bill Staines
"All God's critters got a place in the choir
Some sing low, some sing higher
Some sing out loud on the telephone wire
And some just clap their hands, or paws
Or anything they got."


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## Sandie S-R (Jun 20, 2006)

ScreamingChicken said:


> Well, no one can accuse this place of being boring, that's for sure.



ChickenMan...

You are the master of understatement!


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## Barnes (Jun 20, 2006)

::stares at incredibly long paragraph:::


yeah im too ADD. But hi!


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## Miss Vickie (Jun 20, 2006)

Johnlucas, I've told you what it was you said that kind of ruffled feathers (mine, anyway). I don't have time to go back and cut and paste what you said that was irritating. But suffice to say that the sense that I got -- as well as others -- is that you wanted to "help" us, not "educate" yourself. Generally, when people want to learn, they shut up and listen to what others have to say. They don't come in, speak volumes about who THEY are. I mean, it's interesting and all, and I enjoyed your posts, but it's not how you learn about being fat.

And no, you don't have to be fat to post here. Many people post here who are thin(ner) who enjoy the fat female or male form, so you're not alone in that. But what it doesn't entitle you to do, as a guy who digs fat chicks, is tell us how to live. And that's what you were doing in your initial post -- intentionally or not. (Or at least that's how I, and others, read it).

I'm just speaking MY truth which is that I felt talked down to. And as a woman over 40, I take particular umbrage to that. If that's not your intent, great, marvelous, fabulous, lovely. Join in some of the discussions and get to know us and let us get to know you; that way you won't be perceived as an outsider and your observations might be taken more to heart.

And again, welcome. I'm sorry you felt attacked, but we're (with good reason) suspicious of people who come in and, we perceive, tell us how to live our lives or what we're doing wrong or that they're going to "help" us; we get that all the time, from people who are well, and not so well, intentioned. As someone who's not part of a picked on group, maybe you can't understand that. But it's our reality, nonetheless.


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## GWARrior (Jun 20, 2006)

im just seeing all kinds of rudeness today.


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## Michelle (Jun 20, 2006)

Miss Vickie said:


> As someone who's not part of a picked on group, maybe you can't understand that. But it's our reality, nonetheless.


 
Vickie, I agree with most of what you've said, but I gotta mention this one. JohnLucas states that he is is a "black male". I think that qualifies him mightly to be in a "picked on" group.

Otherwise, you're right - it did sound like we were being lectured to, but I got the feeling it was with the best of motives. I can be extremely naive, but I hope I'm not in this case.


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## goldenzim (Jun 20, 2006)

Hey John Lucas

I read your posts this morning and at first glance couldn't find anything too offensive about what you had to say. That is until I read a bunch of the replies and comments that you received.

I can see why you would be baffled by the hostile, can I say hostile? Yes I think that is a fair description of many of them. Hostile relpies you received. I think as someone who doesn't visit these boards all that often, that I can maybe help you to see why your posts got so many peoples' hackles up. 

You say you want to learn about what it's like to be part of the FA (fat acceptance) movement or indeed what it's like to be fat, grow up fat, love a fat person etc. (Not to mention those other social groups you interact with)

I think here is where you erred: You disturbed the natural order of things round here - If you truly want to study something, you must observe it in such a way as to be as unobtrusive as possible. You were, my man, a bit too "In your face!" in your introduction.

These boards are indeed educational JL but I find that the best way to learn is to listen. 

If, on the other hand you're here to meet some amazing people. Then you have come to the right place.

Thanks for reading my opinions.... And welcome.


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## johnlucas (Jun 20, 2006)

Michelle said:


> Vickie, I agree with most of what you've said, but I gotta mention this one. JohnLucas states that he is is a "black male". I think that qualifies him mightly to be in a "picked on" group.
> 
> Otherwise, you're right - it did sound like we were being lectured to, but I got the feeling it was with the best of motives. I can be extremely naive, but I hope I'm not in this case.



Yes, I am a black man. And I DEFINITELY know how it is to feel ostracized in society. If not through my own personal experiences then with those of the ones like me.

It doesn't happen often but I guess my long-windiness can get me in trouble.
I was just trying to make an informative engaging intro.
I ALWAYS introduce myself & why I came to a forum when I join new forums.

I said "Introducing John Lucas—Nintendo fan" in a Nintendo gameplayers group telling my history & knowledge of Nintendo & why I think they a great company.
I said "Introducing John Lucas—MJ fan" in a Michael Jackson music group doing the same there. My history/knowledge of the subject & why I think he's the greatest entertainer.
I would say "Introducing John Lucas—stamp collector" in a stamp collecting group doing exactly the same there.

Well if I came off lectury it wasn't with the intent of talking down to you all.
But I can understand the hostileness. I saw a post a little while back with a guy telling you that you're unhealthy or something like that. You must get posts like that a lot so I guess it would naturally make you all defensive when someone new comes along.

The fact is I make it a point to stand up for fat people under attack in forums totally unrelated to the subject.
A post in a forum called LoveShack.org with a man talking about how he's not physically attracted to his wife because she put on some weight.

*"I love my wife but I am no longer attracted to her physically..."*
http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t88360/

And in the thread were the usual slams & myths put out about weighty people being lazy or unattractive or slobs or unhealthy.
I got tired of it & I had to say something about it.

*My response*
http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?p=828103#post828103

And yes I referenced this movement in my defense.
I put it out there so that those reading in lurk can hear another viewpoint. Another perspective. And I hope I brought somebody to this forum with that post. So they can find some refuge from all that noise out there.

And the fact that I **WASN'T** fat & saying these things had more impact. There was a woman on there who had weight & she countered what most people said on the board. But ME being a slim person made the point STRONGER because I WASN'T one of that group. Like a Republican standing up for a Democrat. You expect Democrats to stand up for Democrats but not the other side. It's like a government official standing up for a Black Panther in the 1960's.
The woman said afterwards that I basically took the words right out her mouth. She was just about to say that. It probably made her feel good to hear those words come from someone like me.

This post is getting as long as the others so I'll cut it off here.
I come in peace. Lower your fire. I come in peace.
John Lucas

P.S.:


> *goldenzim:* I think here is where you erred: You disturbed the natural order of things round here...
> ...You were, my man, a bit too "In your face!" in your introduction.



Yeah I see that now. Too much passion I guess. Maybe a little too enthusiastic. Thanks for the welcome.
Oh & THANK YOU GWARior!


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## Dibaby35 (Jun 20, 2006)

I think the problem is that from what I can tell is we are all a little "gunshy" on this forum. There's alot of bad history that you just couldn't know about that makes people who have been around here sort of defensive and on our guard. I haven't even been here for very long but I have seen the issues and I understand why people are posting about the "redflags". 

My advice is to just sit back and let yourself journey through the forums and figure out how things work around here. Also if you cut your posts in about half that would help tremendously. I'm also guilty of just skimming your posts.

Anyways welcome to the boards. Take off your shoes and stay awhile


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## randomalex (Jun 20, 2006)

welcome to the boards mr lucas!

i wouldnt be offended by what anyone says here, if this board is offensive then i can direct you to a VERY hostile forum (totally unrelated tho) which im part of then u can say whats hostile! lol

btw Jes please tell me what the whole HASSELHOF shebang is about, tis perplexing to my brain!:shocked:


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## Miss Vickie (Jun 20, 2006)

Michelle said:


> Vickie, I agree with most of what you've said, but I gotta mention this one. JohnLucas states that he is is a "black male". I think that qualifies him mightly to be in a "picked on" group.
> 
> Otherwise, you're right - it did sound like we were being lectured to, but I got the feeling it was with the best of motives. I can be extremely naive, but I hope I'm not in this case.



Oops, you're right, my bad. Johnlucas, you are part of a picked on group. I see that now.

But other than that, I'm not going to apologize for my perception of his first two posts. I stand by my encouragement to look around, join in the discussions, and have a good time without feeling he needs to help us. I don't feel that expressing myself in a honest, non judgmental way is hostile or rude. And I'm hoping he'll prove my first impressions wrong.


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## Esme (Jun 20, 2006)

randomalex said:


> btw Jes please tell me what the whole HASSELHOF shebang is about, tis perplexing to my brain!:shocked:



I wondered about that too, but I was afraid to ask! Am I missing out on some secret Hasselhoffian hijinks? *cries at the mere thought of that*


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## Miss Vickie (Jun 20, 2006)

Dibaby35 said:


> I* think the problem is that from what I can tell is we are all a little "gunshy" on this forum. There's alot of bad history that you just couldn't know about that makes people who have been around here sort of defensive and on our guard.* I haven't even been here for very long but I have seen the issues and I understand why people are posting about the "redflags".
> 
> My advice is to just sit back and let yourself journey through the forums and figure out how things work around here. Also if you cut your posts in about half that would help tremendously. I'm also guilty of just skimming your posts.
> 
> Anyways welcome to the boards. Take off your shoes and stay awhile



You got that right. It's a shame that people are jerks sometimes, and ruin it for others. I still try to stay open to new people and not assume the worst, but still, it's hard sometimes. 

You gave excellent advice, Dibaby. Johnlucas should just enjoy the place, get to know everyone, kick back and have a good time. The other stuff will come in its own time.


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## Jes (Jun 20, 2006)

randomalex said:


> welcome to the boards mr lucas!
> 
> i wouldnt be offended by what anyone says here, if this board is offensive then i can direct you to a VERY hostile forum (totally unrelated tho) which im part of then u can say whats hostile! lol
> 
> btw Jes please tell me what the whole HASSELHOF shebang is about, tis perplexing to my brain!:shocked:


PM me. 



PANTS


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## ThatFatGirl (Jun 20, 2006)

I'm sorry but I find it simply _weird_ to post messages on message boards for women with large labias or small breasts and men with small penises to tell them "Hey, _you're OK_!" and then post about it here. 

Post your support if you feel inclined (and thank you) but get involved in a community by letting members get to know you, fill out your profile, post a photo, respond to threads with your own opinions of the topic. It isn't necessary to tell us how much you've contributed to other boards to demonstrate your relevance. You are relevant just by being here.

BTW, my responses are anything but hostile.. I've been giggling too much over this thread to be hostile.


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## Jes (Jun 20, 2006)

ThatFatGirl said:


> I'm sorry but I find it simply _weird_ to post messages on message boards for women with large labias or small breasts and men with small penises to tell them "Hey, _you're OK_!" and then post about it here.
> 
> .


I used to think I had large labia and small breasts, but then I realized I was looking in the mirror upside down!


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## wtchmel (Jun 20, 2006)

I suppose my red flag coming from you/John is that when you're first new to anyplace, be it work, boards, etc. I think you should come into the area in a calm simple manner. I personally have issues with the person who comes in like they've been there for years. For instance, when someone gets a new job, you usually hold back a bit until people can get to know you, or until you get to know them. Nothing worse then someone coming in to a new job, acting like they've worked there for years, chattin' up everyone, and trying to change shit. 
So, hello, and welcome.


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## Donna (Jun 20, 2006)

johnlucas said:


> *"I love my wife but I am no longer attracted to her physically..."*
> http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t88360/
> 
> And in the thread were the usual slams & myths put out about weighty people being lazy or unattractive or slobs or unhealthy.
> ...


This makes me really uncomfortable. Do you plan on linking to this web board in the same fashion you have linked to this other forum? I realize forums are pretty much a public consumption kind of thing, but it just feels icky to me.


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## Jes (Jun 20, 2006)

wtchmel said:


> I suppose my red flag coming from you/John is that when you're first new to anyplace, be it work, boards, etc. I think you should come into the area in a calm simple manner. I personally have issues with the person who comes in like they've been there for years. For instance, when someone gets a new job, you usually hold back a bit until people can get to know you, or until you get to know them. Nothing worse then someone coming in to a new job, acting like they've worked there for years, chattin' up everyone, and trying to change shit.
> So, hello, and welcome.


I blew that all to hell then! I'm a crazy lady who blusters my way in.


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## RedVelvet (Jun 20, 2006)

SamanthaNY said:


> Oh, stop now. Flat chested women? Small genitiled men? You "talk" to groups of these people? Do they pay you for this? Or do you just corral hapless () un-well-endowed mall shoppers? Maybe you have a mailing list of anorexics - that I can believe, but the others? Pull someone else's legs, mine are long enough. But again, I'm not sure Fat People want to be portrayed as poster children for any one else's social challenge. Just my opinion.




Eggs-zack-tily my thoughts. I read that and almost snorted my tea. I appreicate the thoughts that I think are behind it....but...oh my, it does remind me of another hapless man I used to know.


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## johnlucas (Jun 20, 2006)

I ain't never gonna be understood here.
Everybody's too edgy.

I'll just learn from lurk like before & if I have a question I come out & ask.
Or if I have a comment to make I'll just say it.
Can't be explaining the purpose behind everything I say on every post I make so I'm through with all that.

I don't see nothing wrong with showing other people the existence of a site. They might learn something & so I post it. And you MIGHT find some people who NEED to see a site like this. They may need support. They might be going through a private hell & may not know about a site like this.

Never went through so much scrutiny in a forum before.
I've introduced myself in that manner in many places & no one's really had a problem with it.
Doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

If you like what I have to say, fine. If you don't, equally fine.
But I'm gonna say what I have to say.

Later,
John Lucas


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## RedVelvet (Jun 20, 2006)

ripley said:


> Hello and welcome, John!
> 
> I too am a soldier for the undesirable! If we don't take up their cause, who will? I remember when I was a guest speaker at the Miniscule PeePee and Little Nubbin Bewbie Association....I told them "You should see fat people! You are brothers and sisters under the skin...unite!" Have you ever attended any of the MPLNBA symposia? We may have even met!




Oh my GAWD, that's the funniest thing I have read in a while....marry me.


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## rainyday (Jun 20, 2006)

Jes said:


> PM me.
> 
> PANTS




See now. This is how she lures them into her lair. You saw it people.


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## RedVelvet (Jun 20, 2006)

Oh John....don't take it too hard. This is a group of HIGHLY intelligent and analytical women (no, I don't count myself amoung them..but I do ok)....

We get a LOT of screwed up people on this board....including trolls in disguise...and there are certain things they say that sort of "give them away" as not getting it..

or...worse....faking it.

So..there were a number of things in your post that came off as very, forgive me, false in tone, and the folks around here don't tolerate that much.

You are truly welcome, but maybe if you had come without your soapbox on your first post...a simple hello, maybe...you would have been able to jump right in after a time without ruffling feathers so much.

It's a social skill, board posting, with often subtle rules.







johnlucas said:


> I ain't never gonna be understood here.
> Everybody's too edgy.
> 
> I'll just learn from lurk like before & if I have a question I come out & ask.
> ...


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## mossystate (Jun 20, 2006)

johnlucas said:


> I ain't never gonna be understood here.
> Everybody's too edgy.
> 
> 
> ...




John Lucas..you told me you had received a lot of flack from people on another board..I am confused..and I hate the feeling.. 

Sooner,
Monique Maria


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## activistfatgirl (Jun 20, 2006)

If you like Michael Jackson, you're alright by me. Bottomline.


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## johnlucas (Jun 20, 2006)

mossystate said:


> John Lucas..you told me you had received a lot of flack from people on another board..I am confused..and I hate the feeling..
> 
> Sooner,
> Monique Maria



It was a Nintendo gameplayers forum.
And it STILL wasn't like this!

The membership is obviously not all adult & not all mature.
Many posters liked my contributions & saw me as a valuable contributor while there was always this set of others who just didn't like anything I had to say no matter what. No big deal to me. It's just an internet forum.

I never run into this. Every forum I've gone to for the most part enjoyed my presence & participation. They LOVE my participation & think I add a lot to the discussion.

I'm no fake and I'm no troll. Who has time to waste doing that?
That's why I kept posting some things I said in other forums to prove myself to you all. Just saying it woulda made it easier for you all to doubt my veracity. I don't like to be misunderstood & I don't like people thinking I'm belittling them. It's an inborn personality trait. I have to have clarity.

I don't just say "hello", OK guys? A fair warning to members here but when I start to say something it may be essay-like. My short & simple posts are few & far between. I have to lot to say & lot to share.
I'm not gonna post all the time but when I do it's gonna be weighty with words because that's just who I am.

And if I can't be myself then who can I be?
Later,
John Lucas

And thank you activistfatgirl! MJ is the King...period. (oh boy that's probably gonna start another fight!)


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## Jes (Jun 20, 2006)

rainyday said:


> See now. This is how she lures them into her lair. You saw it people.


This, from a woman who has witnessed how I have NOT been pushing? I can start pushing if you'd like, Miss Kitty...


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## mossystate (Jun 20, 2006)

"Many people like my contributions and saw me as a valuable contributor"

"They love my participation" 

"I don't just say "hello.When I say something it may be essay-like.I have a lot to say and a lot to share."

JL,I understand the need to make sure everybody is clear as to what you are saying( I am part pitbull that way)..BUT..every now and then it is good to relax a bit.Sharing is about give and take.It is not about talking AT people.You have pretty much said that it is too bad if 'we' don't like that you will not just say hi(or any other 'simple' human interaction)

Why this obsessive need to 'prove yourself' to us? ...other than to talk down to 'us'. 

Most people are more willing to consider the information another is placing in front of them, when the informant understands that there are flesh and blood people behind these computers.


Yours truly,

Monique Maria


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## Miss Vickie (Jun 20, 2006)

johnlucas said:


> I ain't never gonna be understood here.
> Everybody's too edgy.



Oh, I see. The problem is with us. Not at all with your approach. So on top of our other foibles, we're "too edgy", as well.

Well, thanks for the "counseling", Johnlucas. It's much appreciated.

/sarcasm

Be who you want to be -- no one's saying otherwise. Just don't be surprised when people take exception to the way in which you post things -- as they do with all of us. Because, you know, just as you're free to put yourself out there, we're free to respond. And, as you've seen, we do.


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## Tzetrik (Jun 20, 2006)

No-one should feel like they need to prove themselves here. I think thats the motto of this thread. 

But seriously, this guys posted more words than all of us put together. Lets make him admin!

Oh wait, sorry I just _read _his posts.


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## ripley (Jun 20, 2006)

Am I the hostile one? Someone PM me and let me know. I thought I was just a smart ass....someone clue me in, please?  


Seriously though....I am glad that you get on so well on other forums, johnlucas. But if you get your nose out of joint because everyone here didn't "love" you from your first post, then I think you had unreasonable expectations. Just because people on other forums "love" you does not mean that everyone on any random forum you join has to love, appreciate, and feel gratitude to you, right off the bat. I'm glad you have pleasant experiences on other boards, but frankly it means nothing to me, regarding *this *forum. 

Yeah, your post hit a nerve with me (or maybe it was my funny bone). That does NOT mean that I think you had bad intentions. All it means is that you'll probably get a response. Fat is not the same as being small/large genitaled/breasted. Fat people face loads of things that members of those groups don't. It got my back up a little that you lumped us all in together...kinda as undesirable. A lot of us here have fine self esteem. What we want is equal pay, quality health care, and to spatially fit in the world. 

I second what others have said: join in! Have you even posted to any other thread besides your intro one? Maybe you should just stop telling us how you should be taken seriously and appreciated and instead contribute and _show_ us what a good guy you are?  We're not going to take your word for it; the proof is in the pudding. And we all like pudding.


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## mossystate (Jun 20, 2006)

I prefer ice cream...

wait...pudding on TOP of ice cream..throw a steak on top of that..and some tomatoes..oh...and maybe a birthday cake..and...damn..I am such a fat girl......heh


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## johnlucas (Jun 20, 2006)

ripley said:


> Am I the hostile one? Someone PM me and let me know. I thought I was just a smart ass....someone clue me in, please?
> 
> 
> Seriously though....I am glad that you get on so well on other forums, johnlucas. But if you get your nose out of joint because everyone here didn't "love" you from your first post, then I think you had unreasonable expectations. Just because people on other forums "love" you does not mean that everyone on any random forum you join has to love, appreciate, and feel gratitude to you, right off the bat. I'm glad you have pleasant experiences on other boards, but frankly it means nothing to me, regarding *this *forum.
> ...



See? And that's the problem.
Everybody's reading into what I say & coming up with their own conclusions unrelated to what I said.

What makes you think that I think ANY of those groups including THIS group are undesireable?
I said they face ostracization from society based on their appearance.
I remember saying exactly that fat people were not valued as they should be in this culture. Sounds like my exact words.

I could have sworn I made the point that each group has its own unique challenges & that to learn about them being not of that group you would have to study & understand what they go through.
I'm a man & I can't understand the total world of a woman to paraphrase. I could have sworn I made that point clearly.

I could have also sworn I touched upon some of what the movement is seeking achieve. Leadership positions was one of the things I mentioned along with civilization stepping up & accomdating needs for fat people. It was all right there on the first post.

I mentioned that there ARE similarities between each ostracized group & that would be the surprise once one group saw the challenges of another group seeing parallels.

I only started posting all that other stuff trying to defend myself because I was under attack here. That's where the PROVE MYSELF came from. Jokers thought I was trolling around here or something.

And who said I was expecting instant love? That was just me expressing my bewilderment at this whole situation in text. I tried to make a joke out of it with the flowers gag. I certainly wasn't expecting all this battling.

No wonder I've been jumped on. No one's really reading my words.
They're just looking for red flags.

You know I don't really think you all WANT me to join in.
A lot of what I kept hearing in this thread was people offended that I would mention this site in other discussion forums. Seemingly angered that a thin man would dare say anything about these issues here or anywhere else.
I can tell that anything I say on any subject here will get the same if not worse kind of over-scrutiny & disbelief.
I'll be defending & explaining myself on every post I make here it looks like.

I get the acute feeling that this place is operating as an unofficially closed forum.
It's open but then again it's not.
And that's OK. This is your domain. Your refuge.

I know what I'm dealing with now so I'll just chime in when I got something to add or ask putting it out there accepted or not. Can't let this welcome discourage me from learning about these issues.
John Lucas


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## LookingAround (Jun 20, 2006)

Hi Lucas, I'm relatively new to the boards too. What I like about this bunch is that they're honest, they're real, and they're living out loud. They don't pretend to be anything or anyone else. Your intro was detailed, but overall you're joy came through your post. Welcome.


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## grey1969 (Jun 20, 2006)

LookingAround said:


> Hi Lucas, I'm relatively new to the boards too. What I like about this bunch is that they're honest, they're real, and they're living out loud. They don't pretend to be anything or anyone else. Your intro was detailed, but overall you're joy came through your post. Welcome.



People can say a lot of things on a discussion board, but it is anyone's guess how honest and real their statements are. There could be all kinds of BSing going on here for all we know.


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## Miss Vickie (Jun 20, 2006)

Johnlucas, I'd really like to see you posting in other threads so we can get to know you better.


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## ripley (Jun 20, 2006)

What Miss Vickie said.  

Step away from this tempest in a teacup and jump in on other threads. You're taking this way too seriously, in my opinion. My advice? Go to the lounge and goof about a bit. It's a great way to learn about the other people here and get that good sentimental lovey-dovey vibe.


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## JoyJoy (Jun 21, 2006)

Imagine this: 

A room full of intelligent, competent people discussing issues pertinent to the group. This group has, in the past, experienced it's share of jesters and troublemakers, so is a bit wary of new folks, but generally welcoming and warm. Suddenly a man bursts into the room and announces loud and long that he knows exactly what's wrong with them and what they're all about, and that he has the map to the right path toward fixing everything. Not getting the attention he wants, he runs from person to person insisting that what he has to say is relevant and just, and that it would all make perfect sense if they would just listen.

How many of those people are going to give credence to what this man says? Likely very few, simply because they have no idea who this man is, where he has come from and where he really gets his ideas. He will have slammed the door in his eagerness, because he didn't bother to open it in the first place. 

Making a big splash in the pool generally gets attention, but probably not the kind you're looking for. Sliding into the water smoothly often allows you to make friends and get to know people much better.....and then I think you'll find that people are much more interested in what you have to say.


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## EllorionsDarlingAngel (Jun 21, 2006)

johnlucas said:


> Are there any LESS hostile people on this forum I can talk to?
> God!
> John Lucas



* Yep Yep I am a NON-Hostile person! Welcome to the boards hun!Hugs!*


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## moonvine (Jun 21, 2006)

johnlucas said:


> Are there any LESS hostile people on this forum I can talk to?
> God!
> John Lucas



None of the hostile people on this forum posted in this thread.


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## mossystate (Jun 21, 2006)

moonvine said:


> None of the hostile people on this forum posted in this thread.




Not true.....


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## johnlucas (Jun 22, 2006)

I admit I was a little bothered by some people thinking I was patronizing them or being too authoritarian or looking down or whatever but I'm gonna let it ride.

I understand how trolls can ruin forums (this is why MJJForum.com, a site I visit, has such strict rules about posts & heavy moderator presence.
ESPECIALLY during that trial).

Openness has it downsides obviously & when violated it always makes some people more defensive or doubting than others. It can make an open atmosphere unofficially more closed just for protection.

I realize this place is a refuge & a getaway from all that kind of thought on the outside. So I understand the defensiveness just didn't appreciate it when everyone thought I was being offensive to warrant that defensiveness. Trust me, guys, I was baffled and pretty much at a loss when I saw how my posts were taken.

Maybe my next post will clear the air.
Look for it. It's coming soon.

John Lucas


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