# the petition to bring back hyde park



## superodalisque (Jul 3, 2009)

haven't we been punished enough! i know we were bad boys and girls but we can change. can we please have it back so we can show the world that fat people and thier admirers also have brainz? we promise to behave!*smiles plaintively*

if you agree sign below in blood



PS: there is also an addendum that if we do get it back we will be civil--no name calling!


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Jul 3, 2009)

lol. I'm subscribing to this bad boy!!!


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## tonynyc (Jul 3, 2009)

*I like the idea- not only will I sign in blood but, will agree to a no holds barred "cage match", "tornado tag team match" or "bunkhouse brawl" *

*If this petition fails and Hyde Park doesn't come back this thread can be renamed *







*SUPERODALISQUE SPICY SMACKDOWN*

*rules determined later ( no bitching, name calling or whining allowed)*


*I am also subscribing to this thread and would be interested to see what comes up....

In all serious, I like the idea of healthy debate AND we have more than enough folks that would love to participate (me included)

*


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## katorade (Jul 3, 2009)

I'll sign, and can keep from name calling, but I can't promise anything when it comes to mocking pictures.


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## Mathias (Jul 3, 2009)

I'm in.......


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## CleverBomb (Jul 3, 2009)

I'm in.

Ladies and Gentlemen, your weapons: Credible links at 20 paces. 

Ready, aim, post!

-Rusty


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## FaxMachine1234 (Jul 3, 2009)

I'll sign in blood, _and_ in cursive!


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## TraciJo67 (Jul 3, 2009)

I can't see any need for it. We can all just bring controversial stuff up in the "Sick of hearing about MJ" thread 

Yeah. I'm in.


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## HottiMegan (Jul 3, 2009)

I certainly do miss it. I'd love to see it back. I'll sign it


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## Blackjack (Jul 3, 2009)

It's gone and the mods have already said that it's not likely to be coming back.


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## Risible (Jul 3, 2009)

So many interesting HP-style topics, nowhere to discuss ... I'm in.


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## pumpkingrower (Jul 3, 2009)

Me too! without politics I have nothing to complain about.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jul 3, 2009)

Hyde Park without name-calling would be like decaffeinated coffee or nonalcoholic beer!


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Jul 3, 2009)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Hyde Park without name-calling would be like decaffeinated coffee or nonalcoholic beer!



lol. so it would be like hanging out with Mormons who are trying to fit in? lol. See I'm bringin HP back already


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## fatgirlflyin (Jul 3, 2009)

Hyde Park being taken away is the only reason I haven't renewed my Club House membership. I miss them both but its the principle of the thing...

My name is added! 





superodalisque said:


> haven't we been punished enough! i know we were bad boys and girls but we can change. can we please have it back so we can show the world that fat people and thier admirers also have brainz? we promise to behave!*smiles plaintively*
> 
> if you agree sign below in blood
> 
> ...


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## The Orange Mage (Jul 3, 2009)

How about make it a forum that is hidden to users at first. They can PM a moderator once they have 50 posts to give them access with the condition that they choose to view and participate in Hyde Park at their own risk. Due to this entry "test," leave the place largely unmoderated.

I'd love it.


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## Smushygirl (Jul 3, 2009)

Count me in! I'll be nice!!!


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## cinnamitch (Jul 4, 2009)

I'm in tooooooooo.....


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## JoyJoy (Jul 4, 2009)

Me too. ........


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## 1300 Class (Jul 4, 2009)

Noooooo! Let sleeping dogs lie!


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## Wild Zero (Jul 4, 2009)




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## Miss Vickie (Jul 4, 2009)

I'm dyin' to have a place to discuss our Crazy Governor in Chief, Sarah Palin. 

Totally in!


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## Skaster (Jul 4, 2009)

Oh yeah, hmmm hmmm heh heh, me too!


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## Isa (Jul 4, 2009)

Count me in, I really miss HP.


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## Preston (Jul 4, 2009)

On one hand, I'm not sure anything productive would come of it. On the other, I love watching mud-slinging and name calling between people I've never met. 

I need more convincing.


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## Isa (Jul 4, 2009)

Preston said:


> On one hand, I'm not sure anything productive would come of it. *On the other, I love watching mud-slinging and name calling between people I've never met.*
> 
> I need more convincing.



That statement alone should be enough to convince you. It does me.


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## mango (Jul 4, 2009)

*No need for a new HP.

People have already started dumping their political threads in the Lounge and on the Main Board (despite the express wishes of the site creator and mods to avoid those topics).


:doh:*


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## fatgirlflyin (Jul 4, 2009)

mango said:


> *No need for a new HP.
> 
> People have already started dumping their political threads in the Lounge and on the Main Board (despite the express wishes of the site creator and mods to avoid those topics).
> 
> ...



That's true, political threads are popping up all over the place. This happened in Florida as well, when everyone was gathered in person. I heard a plethora of political discussions going on all around me. Fat may be the common denominator that brought us all here, but its the every day stuff that keeps us together.

Hyde Park had a place here IMO.


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## Ernest Nagel (Jul 4, 2009)

Well, I really just miss the editorial cartoons but if that's what it takes for them to have a place here... 

How 'bout just a Bio Depot?


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## Observer (Jul 4, 2009)

After the demise of Hyde Park we had a thread, found here, which ran 624 posts, before it was closed. In post 542-571 on pages 22-23 of that thread there was a discussion of a civilized forum patterned after the Lyceum movement of the 19th century.

Meanwhile in the Lounge we had a proposal, found here,for a “Rant Board” which is the counterpoint of the Lyceum format. In post 5 of that thread I mentioned that there was a quiet “ad hoc” group supportive of the Lyceum concept waiting for the right moment to make a proposal. Again the response was positive but not overwhelming.

The result? The political discussions have been popping up where they always did &#8211; on other boards &#8211; in response to current events. But the other aspects of Lyceum &#8211; history, science, philosophy, fine arts etc &#8211; are absent. 

The point of both earlier discussions was that civility and controversy are not mutually exclusive concepts. Unfortunately indications of the willingness to pay the price wasn’t then overwhelming. 

What would the price be?

Its not my call to make, but one element seems probable. That is a tighter structure that keeps such discussions rational rather than peppered with invective and emotion. This means limitations on conduct and language greater than our community has traditionally been asked to accept. 

The founders of the Lyceum movement in America did what they did to bring continental caliber education and civility to a frontier environment of the 19th century. I would suggest that Internet communities of the 21st century are little different. We as community members can make of them what we wish. 

I would ask that the threads and posts cited above be read by those who have not done so - then that responses be made appropriately to the question: is this worth doing at the cost suggested?


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## NancyGirl74 (Jul 4, 2009)

mango said:


> *No need for a new HP.
> 
> People have already started dumping their political threads in the Lounge and on the Main Board (despite the express wishes of the site creator and mods to avoid those topics).
> 
> ...



Listen, Michael Jackson's death has everything to do with BBW/FA issues! He hugged a fat girl once! It was beautiful!


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## Paquito (Jul 4, 2009)

You can count me in!


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## katorade (Jul 4, 2009)

I think that the problem was that the explanation of a Lyceum forum wasn't very thorough quickly enough or worded in plain, simple English. 

Not calling anyone stupid, just pointing out that many people on message boards are loathe to read very long posts. It's especially bad when it's muddled into a huge thread.

I personally think it would be better to have an "enter at your own risk" version than to have something heavily moderated. That way nobody could complain if they got their feelings hurt because they knew full well going in that it was likely to happen. At most I would say have a few simple concrete rules to follow so things don't get out of hand or things offensive to the nature of this board as a whole don't get posted (calling someone a racist epithet, threatening someone with physical harm, posting someone's personal info online without permission/aka google witch-hunting, etc.)


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Jul 4, 2009)

NancyGirl74 said:


> Listen, Michael Jackson's death has everything to do with BBW/FA issues! He hugged a fat girl once! It was beautiful!




Hey! His sister was chubby!!!! So it IS kinda related...I guess. I honestly didn't know being tired of repetitve news was a political thing...but hey, learn somethin new every day. The majority of the threads in the lounge has nothing to do with being fat...it's a lot of games etc. I was just having a good old fashioned rant.


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## mossystate (Jul 4, 2009)

Can see it now...somebody comes from making a less than white glove wearing comment about how " oh baby...I wanna have you sit on my face while I jiggle your fat, while feeding you gummi worms "...then they enter the new HP...don their monocle...nod their greetings...discuss what is worth discussing...well, after some decide what is worth discussing, and how it shall be discussed. Mmmmmmm.


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## Chef (Jul 4, 2009)

Hyde Park and Nipples in the Pay-Site board.. just not going to happen.

get used to it.


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## Shosh (Jul 4, 2009)

It seems that HP sucked up a lot of resources. 

If people want it back would they be willing to pay a subscription kind of like The Clubhouse?
Bucks for bitching?


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## Chef (Jul 4, 2009)

Folks, you wanna bitch about politics, you have www.democraticundergound.com and freerepublic.com and they're free.


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## NancyGirl74 (Jul 4, 2009)

Chef said:


> Hyde Park and Nipples in the Pay-Site board.. just not going to happen.
> 
> get used to it.



How about nipples in Hyde Park and angst/drama on the Pay-Site board...you know, just to shake things up. 


*Disclaimer: I'm clearly in a smart-ass mood today. I apologize.


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## Wild Zero (Jul 4, 2009)

Nipples on every post.


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## mossystate (Jul 4, 2009)

Cartoon nipples.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Jul 4, 2009)

Chef said:


> Folks, you wanna bitch about politics, you have www.democraticundergound.com and freerepublic.com and they're free.



But you see, it isn't the same. It is the same argument as the WLS board. We wanna talk about all this shit with our FRIENDS and online family, not some random political/weight loss website. When fat friends get together they do not just talk about their chub, love of chub, or chub rights...no. They talk about the weather (really true if you are british!), pop culture, they tell jokes, talk about the newest fashions and duscuss politics and religion. It is just natural in most relationships to discuss these things.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jul 4, 2009)

I personally don't want my language censored. It makes me really angry when it happens on other parts of the boards and it would make me even more angry if it happened with something I felt truly passionate about. 





Observer said:


> After the demise of Hyde Park we had a thread, found here, which ran 624 posts, before it was closed. In post 542-571 on pages 22-23 of that thread there was a discussion of a civilized forum patterned after the Lyceum movement of the 19th century.
> 
> Meanwhile in the Lounge we had a proposal, found here,for a Rant Board which is the counterpoint of the Lyceum format. In post 5 of that thread I mentioned that there was a quiet ad hoc group supportive of the Lyceum concept waiting for the right moment to make a proposal. Again the response was positive but not overwhelming.
> 
> ...


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## fatgirlflyin (Jul 4, 2009)

Chef said:


> Folks, you wanna bitch about politics, you have www.democraticundergound.com and freerepublic.com and they're free.




For me, its not even about wanting to bitch about politics. I enjoy this place, there are people here I have a lot in common with (not only being fat) and I truly care about. Why not be able to talk about current events with them? I hate the idea that the only thing that is acceptable to post about here is being fat. Also here if someone disagreed with my POV they aren't gonna call me fat to try to shut me up and put me in my place.


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## Miss Vickie (Jul 4, 2009)

BigBellySSBBW said:


> But you see, it isn't the same. It is the same argument as the WLS board. We wanna talk about all this shit with our FRIENDS and online family, not some random political/weight loss website. When fat friends get together they do not just talk about their chub, love of chub, or chub rights...no. They talk about the weather (really true if you are british!), pop culture, they tell jokes, talk about the newest fashions and duscuss politics and religion. It is just natural in most relationships to discuss these things.





Ella Bella said:


> For me, its not even about wanting to bitch about politics. I enjoy this place, there are people here I have a lot in common with (not only being fat) and I truly care about. Why not be able to talk about current events with them? I hate the idea that the only thing that is acceptable to post about here is being fat. Also here if someone disagreed with my POV they aren't gonna call me fat to try to shut me up and put me in my place.



What they said. Just like WLS (whether it's foisted on us or whether we seek it of our own volition), politics and religion and other intense topics are part and parcel of fat life. Talking about those things -- like other things such as movies, books, video gaming, etc -- with our friends, who we've come to know over the years, is what we're looking for. Why is our desire to discuss passionate issues such a bad thing that it has to be censored or denied?

As for going elsewhere, if I solely wanted to engage in political debate with complete strangers and ideological asshats, I'd go to DU or Freepers or other politically based boards. But I'm more than my politics. _Just like I'm more than my fat._ :bow:

I'd be happy to pay for a Club House type of thing for political discussion. Perhaps we could kill two birds with one stone and add politics and a private BBW board to the Club House. I know I'd re-register if that were the case!


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## fatgirlflyin (Jul 4, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> I'd be happy to pay for a Club House type of thing for political discussion. Perhaps we could kill two birds with one stone and add politics and a private BBW board to the Club House. I know I'd re-register if that were the case!




Same here, as I said earlier in the thread Hyde Park going away is the only reason I haven't renewed my CH membership!


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## Miss Vickie (Jul 4, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> Same here, as I said earlier in the thread Hyde Park going away is the only reason I haven't renewed my CH membership!



Me too, Ella.


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## JoyJoy (Jul 4, 2009)

I'm with Ella and Vickie. I think making HP a paid section that only those who pay to join can access would not only assist in monitoring it because the members would join on the condition that they follow the rules or get kicked, it would also keep it hidden from those who are bothered by it. If the rule was made that a person would not get a refund for a breach in the rules that resulted in being kicked, they might be more inclined to be civil. People tend to be nicer to each other when money is involved.


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## Miss Vickie (Jul 4, 2009)

JoyJoy said:


> I'm with Ella and Vickie. I think making HP a paid section that only those who pay to join can access would not only assist in monitoring it because the members would join on the condition that they follow the rules or get kicked, it would also keep it hidden from those who are bothered by it. If the rule was made that a person would not get a refund for a breach in the rules that resulted in being kicked, they might be more inclined to be civil.



Hey, what a great idea! I like how you think.



> People tend to be nicer to each other when money is involved.



Hee. Tell Bernie Madoff's victims that.  But you're right. If there's something truly at stake, people might be more likely to play nice.


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## mel (Jul 4, 2009)

JoyJoy said:


> I'm with Ella and Vickie. I think making HP a paid section that only those who pay to join can access would not only assist in monitoring it because the members would join on the condition that they follow the rules or get kicked, it would also keep it hidden from those who are bothered by it. If the rule was made that a person would not get a refund for a breach in the rules that resulted in being kicked, they might be more inclined to be civil. People tend to be nicer to each other when money is involved.



Great Idea Joy!!!


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## snuggletiger (Jul 4, 2009)

I'll sign hoping rational human thought and intellectual discourse will return, but watch the powers that be will back peddle because they will be afraid someone of a particular click won't like them anymore because after all its not about people coming together and socializing. Its all about objectification. Some movement.


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## fffff (Jul 4, 2009)

I miss the days when I would read a news story and think "I wonder what hyde park is going to say about this..."


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## bobbleheaddoll (Jul 4, 2009)

personally, i think hyde park is better off gone...while people say they will be good...they won't.  it always ended up with arguements and hostile feelings. while i can appreciate wanting a place to express your strong political views or hot topic opinions, hp just seemed to cause more issues than it talked about...


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## JoyJoy (Jul 4, 2009)

bobbleheaddoll said:


> personally, i think hyde park is better off gone...while people say they will be good...they won't.  it always ended up with arguements and hostile feelings. while i can appreciate wanting a place to express your strong political views or hot topic opinions, hp just seemed to cause more issues than it talked about...


bbh....this response isn't meant personally toward you, because while I do understand this perception and opinion, it annoys me because it's just not accurate. Yes, there were those who didn't abide by the rules and couldn't behave and remain civil, and people like that are always going to exist. However, given that there is a pretty substantial group of us who *did* find HP beneficial and *did* try hard to follow the rules, this kind of sweeping statement just isn't true. I feel like we who enjoyed it for the most part have been deprived of something because of the bad eggs, and I believe there are solutions other than "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". The negativity is always going to stand out more because drama will always pull people in, but the benefit was still there, and some of us tried hard to maintain it, and would greatly like to have it back.


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## Sandie S-R (Jul 4, 2009)

I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble here, however, given the fact that I just closed *ANOTHER* thread on the main board (not to mention all the threads I closed and had to moderate when HP was still open), where people started making nasty comments and personal attacks over a political issue, I really don't hold out any hope that this group is capable of civil discourse.

There was plenty of opportunity when HP was open for people to show that they could be respectful to each other even while disagreeing. It never happened. I really doubt that this petition will change Conrad's mind.

My 2 cents (as a moderator).


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## fatgirlflyin (Jul 4, 2009)

Here's the thing, there are people who come here that are quite capable of civil discourse, no matter how broad a brush you choose to paint us all with. The fact that the moderators are now having to spend time closing threads that pop up show that a place is needed where people on Dims can go to discuss politics. What does Michael Jackson, Billy Mays, and Farrah Fawcet have to do with fat acceptance anyway? Nothing that I can think of, however there are posts about them here on Dims.

I'm sorry to say this but I personally resent how heavily moderated Dimensions is. I think that people should be able to have all kinds of discussions here and if someone enters into a political debate then they should know that tempers tend to get heated. If they can't handle it then they shouldn't get involved in the conversations. 

IMO the mods should be for keeping the fat hating public out, not policing active members who contribute to the conversations that take place here every day.




Sandie S-R said:


> I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble here, however, given the fact that I just closed *ANOTHER* thread on the main board (not to mention all the threads I closed and had to moderate when HP was still open), where people started making nasty comments and personal attacks over a political issue, I really don't hold out any hope that this group is capable of civil discourse.
> 
> There was plenty of opportunity when HP was open for people to show that they could be respectful to each other even while disagreeing. It never happened. I really doubt that this petition will change Conrad's mind.
> 
> My 2 cents (as a moderator).


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## moore2me (Jul 5, 2009)

Just a few irreverent comments:

Observer - If we join the_ Lyceum_ movement, does that make us friends with the werewolf clique?


And, altho I would love to see HP back, I remember last time I signed a petition (in high school), I got in world of trouble both at school and at home. Just the word "petition" conjures up bad memories in my mind. 

View attachment f12_03.jpg


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## FaxMachine1234 (Jul 5, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> I'd be happy to pay for a Club House type of thing for political discussion. Perhaps we could kill two birds with one stone and add politics and a private BBW board to the Club House. I know I'd re-register if that were the case!



Not that I'm not quite fond of this site, but I'm personally not about to pay for something that was until a couple of months ago free. If they were going to do that, then they might as well make the whole damn thing a paysite and then Dimensions will have a _very_ exclusive membership.

Also I have no money


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## Shosh (Jul 5, 2009)

Ekim said:


> Not that I'm not quite fond of this site, but I'm personally not about to pay for something that was until a couple of months ago free. If they were going to do that, then they might as well make the whole damn thing a paysite and then Dimensions will have a _very_ exclusive membership.
> 
> Also I have no money



Yes but then again somebody is paying for it as it is now, and that is Conrad and Clubhouse subscribers and general donators.
I think it would be a gesture of goodwill to help offset some of the extensive costs of running such a site.
A couple of months ago it may have been free for you and others, but not for everybody.


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## fffff (Jul 5, 2009)

fffff said:


> I miss the days when I would read a news story and think "I wonder what hyde park is going to say about this..."



Wow, did my post really just get edited for saying Sarah Palin's_name_? 

Politics is a part of life. Asking people to never discuss any political topic is about the same as mandating that no one ever talk about the weather, or movies, or TV, or anything that isn't how you can't wait for someone to outgrow their jeans. I think in the last thread about this the most hilarious and insulting comment that, "everyone here has so much in common," was made. Really? We have members here from all incomes, age groups, ethnicities, backgrounds, countries, etc but they should all get because of fat? Fat people have differing opinions, and yes, even some times they argue. Why that is treated like such a serious problem instead of celebrated is something I will never grasp. And frankly don't ever want to. 

Lately things here have been censored just because they got slightly off topic or were in the wrong forum. As if it really matters if an interesting thread that people are replying to is posted in the FA forum when it really belongs in the lounge. 

With all the moderation thats been going on this board is just becoming a glorified pornography site. Not that I think there's anything wrong with porn, but when thats the only form of discussion people feel comfortable with, you don't have a community. All anyone can talk about is how much they love fat. Fat people, and food. Because all fat people do all day is sit around all day thinking about how fat they and waiting for someone (an anyom internet guy) to come and admire their fat...... inbetween fast food breaks of course.

Whatever, I don't think about women when I masturbate or want to read 500 threads about plus-size clothing stores so I'm just totally done with this board.


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## Mathias (Jul 5, 2009)

JoyJoy said:


> I'm with Ella and Vickie. I think making HP a paid section that only those who pay to join can access would not only assist in monitoring it because the members would join on the condition that they follow the rules or get kicked, it would also keep it hidden from those who are bothered by it. If the rule was made that a person would not get a refund for a breach in the rules that resulted in being kicked, they might be more inclined to be civil. People tend to be nicer to each other when money is involved.



That's an excellent idea.


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## Mathias (Jul 5, 2009)

fffff said:


> Wow, did my post really just get edited for saying Sarah Palin's_name_?
> 
> Politics is a part of life. Asking people to never discuss any political topic is about the same as mandating that no one ever talk about the weather, or movies, or TV, or anything that isn't how you can't wait for someone to outgrow their jeans. I think in the last thread about this the most hilarious and insulting comment that, "everyone here has so much in common," was made. Really? We have members here from all incomes, age groups, ethnicities, backgrounds, countries, etc but they should all get because of fat? Fat people have differing opinions, and yes, even some times they argue. Why that is treated like such a serious problem instead of celebrated is something I will never grasp. And frankly don't ever want to.
> 
> ...



I hope you don't leave, as I have enjoyed reading your post. You do raise good points. If politics don't have a place here then The Lounge wouldn't be either as it's self described as being off topic.


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## JoyJoy (Jul 5, 2009)

Mathias said:


> That's an excellent idea.





Miss Vickie said:


> Hey, what a great idea! I like how you think.
> 
> 
> 
> Hee. Tell Bernie Madoff's victims that.  But you're right. If there's something truly at stake, people might be more likely to play nice.





mel said:


> Great Idea Joy!!!



Thanks, but it seems unlikely it will ever be considered. We have been bad little children, after all. What can we expect?


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## 1300 Class (Jul 5, 2009)

> Fat people have differing opinions, and yes, even some times they argue. Why that is treated like such a serious problem instead of celebrated is something I will never grasp


Thats a really excellent issue that should be discussed. 

Rather than some sort of monolithic entity of ideas, concepts and beliefs, Dims is rather a globe spanning multi-faceted one in which a consensus will hopefully never be reached on any issue. 

Like all communities there are groups and sub groups. These will have different ideas about the way things are or out to be, and will extrapolate on that to others or within their group to evolve the idea. Obviously none of this is static and is quite fluid with no strict mutual exlusivity between groups, for the most part. 

Basically we have to be able to debate between ourselves internally as a community, not to reach a consensus, but to reach an understanding of what our values are. Off hand the issue of air travel seating particulary stands out, or in certain cases were criticism that was justly valid was shot down because it didn't immiediatly represent a preconcieved notion or may have been critical of a aspect that affected, linked or brought to the attention of the community. 

As for paying for HP, well, I can talk politics elsewhere for free, but Dims is a community that is more than just politics. Worth paying for? Meh, I wouldn't be fussed. I'm not fussed about the clubhouse, so why about a fee-HP?


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## t3h_n00b (Jul 5, 2009)

unmoderated political web forum = club med for skinheads

seriously, this place might as well change its name to stormfront if its gonna have a political discussion board with no moderators (once word gets out).


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## Wagimawr (Jul 5, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> I'm sorry to say this but I personally resent how heavily moderated Dimensions is. I think that people should be able to have all kinds of discussions here and if someone enters into a political debate then they should know that tempers tend to get heated. If they can't handle it then they shouldn't get involved in the conversations.


The argument I've heard about censoring forums for political or religious discussion is that not only do the arguments themselves devolve into insult slinging, but that those arguments and the viewpoints of the people who have them begin to be seen all over the board. Then, fights happen in other otherwise uncontroversial threads, when the real difference of opinion is only in one's viewpoints or personal philosophy.

In short, opinions become personal attacks, and someone will attack another for no reason but that they have an issue with someone's personal beliefs, even if those beliefs have nothing to do with the discussion or argument at hand.

Therefore, if there's no place for some of these very divisive biases to become apparent, any disagreement is based on the conversation that it stems from, nothing else.


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## Wagimawr (Jul 5, 2009)

JoyJoy said:


> However, given that there is a pretty substantial group of us who *did* find HP beneficial and *did* try hard to follow the rules, this kind of sweeping statement just isn't true. I feel like we who enjoyed it for the most part have been deprived of something because of the bad eggs, and I believe there are solutions other than "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". The negativity is always going to stand out more because drama will always pull people in, but the benefit was still there, and some of us tried hard to maintain it, and would greatly like to have it back.


I've never agreed with the control policy that if some in a bunch misbehave, that the whole bunch deserves to lose the privilege that was abused. There are benefits to it though:
1) Moderators and others who invoke this policy are only human; sometimes it's hard to tell who the real instigators are, and to punish the wrong person leaves one disgruntled and potentially others to cause the same trouble all over again.
2) Assuming that those in control manage to restrict those "bad eggs", then they're inundated with cries of "unfair treatment" from those who may or may not even know that what they've done is wrong (people do exist out there with no grasp on right or wrong, real Joker types ), and then it becomes even harder to pay attention to those who may still be left causing problems.

Easier to dump it all and not worry about it.


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## mango (Jul 5, 2009)

fffff said:


> ...
> With all the moderation thats been going on this board is just becoming a glorified pornography site. ...



*Then why are you still here (if that's what you really think of this place)?? 


*


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## 1300 Class (Jul 5, 2009)

An unmoderated board is just daft and silly. I mean honestly. Strict but fair enforcement of rules (wheather general or specific) is a must.


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## Suze (Jul 5, 2009)

yes, please...!

*starts cutting herself*


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## stan_der_man (Jul 5, 2009)

Perhaps if somebody were to buy me a year's supply of Lebkuchen I'd gripe and moan about resurrection of Hyde Park just like I griped and moaned about starting a FA Board... I'd need the sugar boost to get all riled up...


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## fatgirlflyin (Jul 5, 2009)

Wagimawr said:


> Therefore, if there's no place for some of these very divisive biases to become apparent, any disagreement is based on the conversation that it stems from, nothing else.



Totally understand what you're saying but this happens without HP as well. I for one, have several people who post here at Dims, who when they post I seriously have to take a step back and try to read what they write with an open mind. I have to actively try not to jump on their posts for the pure fact that I don't like how they come across online. That's just called being an adult and while I will agree that there are some here that don't seem to be able to do that, the vast majority of us are. 



missaf said:


> I'm not sure where the mentality started that you can't discuss current events in The Lounge arose, but it's not accurate. The Lounge is for "For fun, games, and off-topic stuff."
> 
> Current events are off-topic to Size Acceptance, and there's a home for them. Politics is the one caveat to off-topic discussions. The straw man argument that "we can't talk about things that aren't related to fat!" is flawed and untrue. I'm sorry you feel that way. Currently in the Lounge there's an NFL thread, video game discussion, people venting about what's happening in their lives, Harry Potter, Independence Day celebrations, and that doesn't even go into the topics at hand in other forums that aren't about fat.
> 
> ...




You're right Missaf, we can talk about anything but politics. So we can have threads about Michael Jackson get so heated tht they have to be closed. We can talk about what's making us sad, what we like about the previous poster, and other sorts of things that don't really matter. OR we can talk about fat (excuse me while I go plug in my vibrator for this discussion).

Also, I don't really care if anyone calls me fat, I've certainly been called worse but you know as well as I do that if I were to post on a political board there would be those that would choose to use my weight as something with which to attack me. Because just like here at Dimensions there are people on other message boards that are incapable of being adults. The point I was making here is that at Dimensions that's not something that one would have to deal with. 

Now if you as a moderator (are you one? I can't even keep who is a moderator straight) don't want your job made more difficult by having to police a political board, then fine I get that. I don't want more duties piled on me than necessary at my own job either, but just don't try to make it be about the people here. Because while I will readily admit that there are some of us here who truly do act childish there are far more that don't. There were many more threads in HP that were filled with people discussing opposing views than there were threads closed because it turned into name calling.


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## katorade (Jul 5, 2009)

Australian Lord said:


> An unmoderated board is just daft and silly. I mean honestly. Strict but fair enforcement of rules (wheather general or specific) is a must.




Hmmm, I should go back and re-state. I wasn't thinking clearly. Another forum I'm on has a "completely un-moderated forum", aka "un-mod". Whenever arguments in other threads become too heated, the offending posts are removed from the thread and relocated to un-mod as their own new thread. 
That way, people trying to get actual information can still enjoy the original thread and the people arguing can continue to argue their points and sling insults as long as they care to. Anyone else that loves a good fight is also free to join. If someone doesn't want to argue any more or is "called out", they're free to stay out of un-mod if they choose, and the other person arguing is not allowed to chase them around the boards egging them on, or they'll get a time out. 
Both parties are free to go back to the main thread, just not duke it out there, or they will be put on a time out, or banned if they just don't get it.

It has worked incredibly well since people don't feel like they're getting censored and are still free to have their say, but it also keeps discussions on topic, and typically once the offending material has been moved, it dies out quickly because there's less of an audience. This could apply to ANY forum on Dims, not just HP.


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## Miss Vickie (Jul 5, 2009)

JoyJoy said:


> Thanks, but it seems unlikely it will ever be considered. We have been bad little children, after all. What can we expect?



I'm afraid you're right. That's definitely the vibe I'm getting, that we're naughty little children who misbehaved thoughtlessly so we had our marbles taken away from us. Plus, in all this discussion about why HP was shut down, the emphasis seems to be on the negative stuff, of which there was admittedly a fair amount. 

What's completely ignored, however, are all the interesting threads and posts that stayed on topic, where people were respectful and curious and understanding of each other's differences. I have learned a lot over the years from people like Canonista and biodieselman and others with whom I disagree adamantly, but who were able to describe their point of view in such a way that I "got" where they stood. Hanging out a DU would be like a political circle jerk. Where's the fun in that? I'd much rather discuss politics with my friends who have a different point of view because that's how I learn. As crazy as it sounds, you all are my friends, and your opinions about world events and politics interest me. I'm not so interested in what complete strangers at DU or Freepers think.



Ella Bella said:


> You're right Missaf, we can talk about anything but politics. So we can have threads about Michael Jackson get so heated tht they have to be closed. We can talk about what's making us sad, what we like about the previous poster, and other sorts of things that don't really matter. OR we can talk about fat (excuse me while I go plug in my vibrator for this discussion).



*spews coffee all over my keyboard*

Damn, that was a waste of some good coffee! 



> I don't want more duties piled on me than necessary at my own job either, but just don't try to make it be about the people here. Because while I will readily admit that there are some of us here who truly do act childish there are far more that don't. There were many more threads in HP that were filled with people discussing opposing views than there were threads closed because it turned into name calling.



Yes. I don't think it's fair to make it about how naughty we were. I totally get that the mods are over-worked and that HP really spread them thin. No way do I want to make things worse for anyone. This is why (and this is directed to Missaf) we're trying to suggest ways that HP can exist that it doesn't tax the moderating staff. Most of us are willing to pay for the privilege, which should demonstrate how serious we take this and how important it is to us.



katorade said:


> Hmmm, I should go back and re-state. I wasn't thinking clearly. Another forum I'm on has a "completely un-moderated forum", aka "un-mod". Whenever arguments in other threads become too heated, the offending posts are removed from the thread and relocated to un-mod as their own new thread.
> That way, people trying to get actual information can still enjoy the original thread and the people arguing can continue to argue their points and sling insults as long as they care to. Anyone else that loves a good fight is also free to join. If someone doesn't want to argue any more or is "called out", they're free to stay out of un-mod if they choose, and the other person arguing is not allowed to chase them around the boards egging them on, or they'll get a time out.
> Both parties are free to go back to the main thread, just not duke it out there, or they will be put on a time out, or banned if they just don't get it.
> 
> It has worked incredibly well since people don't feel like they're getting censored and are still free to have their say, but it also keeps discussions on topic, and typically once the offending material has been moved, it dies out quickly because there's less of an audience. This could apply to ANY forum on Dims, not just HP.




I like this. I think it's an excellent idea. That way the offending posts are moved, not deleted, and people can continue to mud slinging if that's what they want. The same could be done with the completely off topic posts that threaten to derail an otherwise productive thread.


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## stan_der_man (Jul 5, 2009)

How about a "Dims Hyde Park" group on Facebook? I've noticed that the groups there have the ability for subscribed members to start threads sort of like how the software here does... a group of us could moderate such a board...

Just an idea...


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## katorade (Jul 5, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> Yes. I don't think it's fair to make it about how naughty we were. I totally get that the mods are over-worked and that HP really spread them thin. No way do I want to make things worse for anyone. This is why (and this is directed to Missaf) we're trying to suggest ways that HP can exist that it doesn't tax the moderating staff. Most of us are willing to pay for the privilege, which should demonstrate how serious we take this and how important it is to us.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



One of the best parts is that it takes a lot of regulating off of the mods' shoulders. Once it's moved in there, they don't have to worry about telling people to watch their Ps and Qs.

I mean, I think it's a great idea to try and keep the whole board as a civil sanctuary, but I have NEVER been on a forum that has managed to have a tight knit community and NOT have some kind of turmoil.


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## Miss Vickie (Jul 5, 2009)

fa_man_stan said:


> How about a "Dims Hyde Park" group on Facebook... I've noticed that the groups there have the ability for subscribed members to start threads sort of like how the software here does... a group of us could moderate such a board...
> 
> Just an idea...



Stan, you're genius! I'm on facebook. Is there a way to make it private so that only members could see what we're saying? I think that any Dims member who wanted to join could, but I'd rather not be inundated by fat haters.


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## katorade (Jul 5, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> Stan, you're genius! I'm on facebook. Is there a way to make it private so that only members could see what we're saying? I think that any Dims member who wanted to join could, but I'd rather not be inundated by fat haters.



That, and there are some people I'd rather not know about my membership here. My mom is on Facebook. So are my brother and sister-in-law and co-workers. I don't particularly want them retracing my steps back to here and making any kind of guesses as to why I belong to a message board that sends a very mixed message as to why someone might be a member. I like to keep my Dims life on Dims.


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## Miss Vickie (Jul 5, 2009)

I understand, Katorade. I have my reasons for wanting to try to keep things a little bit separate, though I'm probably woefully bad at it! I'm heading out for the afternoon but if Stan hasn't looked into this, I will when I get back.

I think it would be easier to have HP here at Dimensions, for convenience's sake, not to mention the fact that I like the software interface way more than facebook. But desperate times call for desperate measures, as they say.


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## Mathias (Jul 5, 2009)

katorade said:


> That, and there are some people I'd rather not know about my membership here. My mom is on Facebook. So are my brother and sister-in-law and co-workers. I don't particularly want them retracing my steps back to here and making any kind of guesses as to why I belong to a message board that sends a very mixed message as to why someone might be a member. I like to keep my Dims life on Dims.



Same with me, but I'm considering giving them the boot on Facebook considering that whenever I post something as a status that'll raise some eyebrows they sort of give me an e- lecture. If they want to talk to me they can call me and not watch me over facebook.


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## stan_der_man (Jul 5, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> Stan, you're genius! I'm on facebook. Is there a way to make it private so that only members could see what we're saying? I think that any Dims member who wanted to join could, but I'd rather not be inundated by fat haters.





katorade said:


> That, and there are some people I'd rather not know about my membership here.
> ...





Mathias said:


> Same with me,
> ...



We wouldn't necessarily have to associate such a conversation group with Dims per se, we could just call it "Current Topics" or something generic like that. The range of subjects could be political, debates of any sort or just general conversation, things that aren't provided for here in Dims. It could just be our Facebook group where we could keep the fat haters out of. We generally know who the trolls are here in Dims, we could play it by ear on who would have access to what...



Miss Vickie said:


> I understand, Katorade. I have my reasons for wanting to try to keep things a little bit separate, though I'm probably woefully bad at it! I'm heading out for the afternoon but if Stan hasn't looked into this, I will when I get back.
> 
> I think it would be easier to have HP here at Dimensions, for convenience's sake, not to mention the fact that I like the software interface way more than facebook. But desperate times call for desperate measures, as they say.



I don't know the specifics of how Facebook works but if you'd like we can figure it out Vickie, or whoever else would like to get involved...?


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## superodalisque (Jul 5, 2009)

Sandie S-R said:


> I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble here, however, given the fact that I just closed *ANOTHER* thread on the main board (not to mention all the threads I closed and had to moderate when HP was still open), where people started making nasty comments and personal attacks over a political issue, I really don't hold out any hope that this group is capable of civil discourse.
> 
> There was plenty of opportunity when HP was open for people to show that they could be respectful to each other even while disagreeing. It never happened. I really doubt that this petition will change Conrad's mind.
> 
> My 2 cents (as a moderator).



relax sweetie. this is just a fun thread. no one needs to wake Conrad. i agree with Ella though. the main problem we had with HP wasn't what was being said. it was that somehow it didn't seem we had the confidence of dims to realize that the members could handle it. i think sometimes people get taken too seriously. if it were all handled with a grain of salt and taken for what it was it would have been ok. dims is unique and i don't think it will just shut down because people disagree or get thier hackles up once in a while. in fact i think its healthy. it means that people have passionate beliefs. thats always a good thing.

respectfully, i think that as a moderator you should not comment here. not because you don't have a right to your opinion , because you do. its a valid opinion as well and it makes sense. but it also looks like a conflict of interest. maybe mods should have one screen name for moderating and another for posting thier personal opinions. i think it would be a great idea if when you guys had started no one even knew who you were at all so they couldn't attach any kind of opinion about bias to what you guys are trying to do. they wouldn't know who your personal friends were or who your percieved enemies were. thats how its done on most sites. it would be a way to keep people from always questioning your motives. then people might not resent your decisions as much. i think when you mix things up like that it is just begging for trouble. thats not a criticism. i'm not trying to put you down. its just an idea that i thought might be helpful for you guys to think about. i think you all are doing the best that you can. and i was just thinking of ways for people to treat you how you deserve to be treated for investing your time and effort. you don't have to agree with me. just think about it.

even if we can't really discuss politics here i'm sure we can figure out something even if we just do it through facebook or our own personal blogs. so it will all work out ok in the end.  but i still feel that you guys think we are all big fat babies who can't manage anything and that makes me feel a little frustrated. i know its not your intention but thats how i feel about it.


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## superodalisque (Jul 5, 2009)

fa_man_stan said:


> We wouldn't necessarily have to associate such a conversation group with Dims per se, we could just call it "Current Topics" or something generic like that. The range of subjects could be political, debates of any sort or just general conversation, things that aren't provided for here in Dims. It could just be our Facebook group where we could keep the fat haters out of. We generally know who the trolls are here in Dims, we could play it by ear on who would have access to what...
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know the specifics of how Facebook works but if you'd like we can figure it out Vickie, or whoever else would like to get involved...?



i'd love to do that


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## Wild Zero (Jul 5, 2009)

It's very easy to start "hidden groups" on facebook, when you make a group it's one of the (IIRC) three privacy options.

Hidden groups only show up on your groups list when you're logged in to your account, activities on them never post wall updates and non-members cannot see them even if they search for the group name.


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## mossystate (Jul 5, 2009)

I can just hear some people whisper..." yessssssss...goooooo...stop asking for HP ". *L*

It's really too bad that there needs to be an outside place, but, if that is the way the ball bounces...I hope the word Dims/Dimensions, is *not *part of the name. 

It should belong to the people. Power to the people. Dog bless Americaaaaaaaa.


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## TraciJo67 (Jul 5, 2009)

JoyJoy said:


> I'm with Ella and Vickie. I think making HP a paid section that only those who pay to join can access would not only assist in monitoring it because the members would join on the condition that they follow the rules or get kicked, it would also keep it hidden from those who are bothered by it. If the rule was made that a person would not get a refund for a breach in the rules that resulted in being kicked, they might be more inclined to be civil. People tend to be nicer to each other when money is involved.



I'd sign up for this, but I actually like Stan's idea better. I am against heavy moderation of anything but the obvious fat-bashing trolls. If we set up a FB group, we could choose not to moderate each other.


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## stan_der_man (Jul 5, 2009)

fa_man_stan said:


> Perhaps if somebody were to buy me a year's supply of Lebkuchen I'd gripe and moan about resurrection of Hyde Park just like I griped and moaned about starting a FA Board... I'd need the sugar boost to get all riled up...



BTW... Ice cream ain't Lebkuchen... I do appreciate the offer, but it's gotta be Lebkuchen or nothin'... It's kinda like sayin' that fruit in one's bra is the next best thing to real boobies...


Just sayin'...


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## Observer (Jul 5, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> respectfully, i think that as a moderator you should not comment here



Sorry, I have to disagree. 

Mods are also community members and have a right to post wherever they please. At least three (including myself) other than Sandie S-R have already posted to this thread. 

In this specific case we also bring a unique perspective to the topic. Interestingly, as is evidenced by our posts, we are not monolithic in our view. 

To single out Sandie and ask that she not participate is IMHO an unfair request.


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## LillyBBBW (Jul 5, 2009)

*subscribes*


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## FaxMachine1234 (Jul 5, 2009)

Susannah said:


> Yes but then again somebody is paying for it as it is now, and that is Conrad and Clubhouse subscribers and general donators.
> I think it would be a gesture of goodwill to help offset some of the extensive costs of running such a site.
> A couple of months ago it may have been free for you and others, but not for everybody.



Yeah, you're right; I'm not saying I'm _proud_ about not wanting to pay anything (let this override the snide words of my previous post), but as a practical value I just can't, especially since I'm not here often enough that it would be worth it. I visit a lot of websites more than Dimensions and use up more of their bandwidth, but I don't pay them either. If people want to donate/pay for Club membership that's fantastic, but it's their choice. If the webmaster wants to create a paid Hyde Park thing it'd also be his chioce, but I just think it'd be kind of obnoxious, as it'd be acting like a tax in order to access a previous free part of the site. I wouldn't support it.


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## superodalisque (Jul 5, 2009)

Observer said:


> Sorry, I have to disagree.
> 
> Mods are also community members and have a right to post wherever they please. At least three (including myself) other than Sandie S-R have already posted to this thread.
> 
> ...



point taken. however i never said she didn't have the right to post here. she has every right. its only that I personally thought it wouldn't be a good idea for a mod to post here. she did make a point of being a mod. i really basically have no idea who most are unless they tell me. since i don't pay attention to those things i didn't catch the others. i just don't feel i have a need to know who they are. but i still think that mods should have one ID when working and another when not. i only made the suggestion because i get to hear the complaints about what is percieved to be unfairness. my suggestion goes to the other mods who have posted as well including you. 

of course mods are a part of the community but there is a difference when speaking in a personal and an official capacity. and since the system here is already set up in a way where everyone already knows who all of the mods are it wouldn't make sense for her not to post here. she has no other way to do it because her official and personal identity is one in the same. what i'm suggesting is that if they were seperate and independent it would give her more freedom and help her maintain her authority. people might not second guess a mod as much if they didn't know what thier opinions were. people might have more confidence in thier decisions if the two things were clear and distinct. but since they aren't people are always ruminating on motives when its unnecessary


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## fatgirlflyin (Jul 5, 2009)

Observer said:


> Sorry, I have to disagree.
> 
> Mods are also community members and have a right to post wherever they please. At least three (including myself) other than Sandie S-R have already posted to this thread.
> 
> ...



When Sandi posted she said she was posting as a moderator, that carries a different bit of weight than if she were just posting as a member of Dimensions. The post also had a sort of scolding tone to it as well. Which is fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if someone is posting as a moderator (who's sole purpose is to enforce the rules) then their opinions should be kept separate. They should be fair and impartial.


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## mossystate (Jul 5, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> ... but i still think that mods should have one ID when working and another when not.



I have suggested the same thing ( also to be very clear when they are speaking as a moderator, which, in my opinion, should be almost clinical in tone ). While I would still know that the person posting her/his personal personal opinion is a moderator, I would feel more comfortable interacting with them, including any disagreeing that needs to see the light of day.


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## TraciJo67 (Jul 6, 2009)

mossystate said:


> I have suggested the same thing ( also to be very clear when they are speaking as a moderator, which, in my opinion, should be almost clinical in tone ). While I would still know that the person posting her/his personal personal opinion is a moderator, I would feel more comfortable interacting with them, including any disagreeing that needs to see the light of day.



This wouldn't be an issue at all, if the moderators were here just to get rid of the fat-bashing trolls, and weren't expected to intercede in HP-type dramas and whiny "but he/she was meaaaaaaaaaaaaan to me" or "he/she staaaaaaaaaaaarted it" battles. Lot less moderating effort, too. And far fewer complaints that this mod is biased, that mod lets his/her friends/family members get away with stuff that other people couldn't say, etc etc. Et. Freakin'. Cetera.

I'd really love to see an experiment of no moderation at all for a few weeks ... just getting rid of spam and obvious trolls. Think we'd survive? :happy:


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## fatgirlflyin (Jul 6, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> I'd really love to see an experiment of no moderation at all for a few weeks ... just getting rid of spam and obvious trolls. Think we'd survive? :happy:



I do! 
extra characters


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## Wagimawr (Jul 6, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> I'd really love to see an experiment of no moderation at all for a few weeks ... just getting rid of spam and obvious trolls. Think we'd survive? :happy:


I seem to remember that being the case at the verrrrrrrrrrrrrry beginning of Hyde Park.

I'd welcome that back.


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## Observer (Jul 6, 2009)

Folks, let's remember our history - those who don't, as the saying goes, are doomed to repeat it.

No moderation at all is where Hyde Park started! 

At that time it wasn't initially a political forum, but a dumping ground sandbox for those who couldn't restrain themselves from fighting in other forums. There was even an potential ability (only used once) for mods to confine troublesome community members as an alternative to infractions or banning. 

What happened was that in very short order some community members with particular passions tried to initiate serious discussions on current events, which swiftly led into politics and personal attacks. 

That is why "da rules" were written and mods designated - because we had an unmoderated situation that was abused. 

The problem that we have isn't a value judgement of whether TraciJo and Ella Bella are tough enough to stand the heat in an unmoderated environment. I am quite ready to believe you both are, and the same with any number of others. That's not the issue. 

The problem is that in an unmoderated environment there will be bullies and there will be those who will react to the bullying in one of two ways:

1) leaving Dimensions entirely because such stuff is seen as being sanctioned, or 

2) by fighting back. which will lead to overlap into other forums and permanently hurt feelings for some.​
I personally participated in many beneficial Hyde Park discussions and was never attacked or accused of attacking. In many instances I stirred up discussions of the topic and earned rep points for my insights. I enjoyed it - and this was true I think of most who were there. But I only joined in after there was moderator oversight because I wanted no part of the sandbox aspect of the forum.


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## mergirl (Jul 6, 2009)

I think most internet communities need some sort of interesting debates happening to survive. I imagine wanking 24/7 is wearing, plus i am confident there is more to us than just fat and wanking. I enjoyed Hyde park, when my nerves could handle it, though i think Hyde park is kinna dissapating and we are seeing some debate worthy topics springing up in the lounge, lgbt and weight forum, all of which have been pretty respectful even though we have differing oppinions. Maby Hyde park kinna still is in existance but has spread out a bit and is a less potant version.


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## TraciJo67 (Jul 6, 2009)

Observer, it's not that I don't see validity in what you are saying -- I'm just wondering if moderating HP actually helped. It seems to me that people who are very sensitive would leave if they felt attacked - whether or not the person that they perceived as doing the attacking were chasisted in some form. We seldom see any actions taken by moderators -- which is as it should be -- but that being the case, how does the sensitive one know that the bully got the internet equivalent of a thump on the head? Besides, what I saw in HP wasn't a few tender souls who posted some altruistic thing and got a stomp down. What I saw was a lot of passive-aggressive people using their tender feelings as an EXCUSE for throwing electronic temper tantrums, and then running to the moderators when the "mean bully" gave them back a dose of their own medicine. I also saw that most people were able to follow the rules without resorting to name-calling. Sure, sometimes things got passionate, even borderline unpleasant. That said, though, I have a very thick electronic skin, and I know that most of the people that I disagreed with -- however passionately -- did too. I know this because many of them are my friends, and we continue to have offline discussions. I don't need people to agree with me. I learn the most by engaging in reasoned (or even the occasional bout of UNreasoned) discourse with intelligent people. I miss that, a lot.



Observer said:


> Folks, let's remember our history - those who don't, as the saying goes, are doomed to repeat it.
> 
> No moderation at all is where Hyde Park started!
> 
> ...


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## fatgirlflyin (Jul 6, 2009)

Observer said:


> I personally participated in many beneficial Hyde Park discussions and was never attacked or accused of attacking. In many instances I stirred up discussions of the topic and earned rep points for my insights. I enjoyed it - and this was true I think of most who were there. But I only joined in after there was moderator oversight because I wanted no part of the sandbox aspect of the forum.




I understand where you're coming from here, and honestly I would like to see a rebirth of an unmoderated HP but I know that won't be happening any time soon. I really do feel that Dimensions is too heavily moderated, and if we do get another version of HP sometime in the future I would like to see it moderated as little as possible. 

When you speak about the "bullying" that went on in Hyde Park are you also considering our professional victims that we have here as well?


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## mossystate (Jul 6, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> This wouldn't be an issue at all, if the moderators were here just to get rid of the fat-bashing trolls, and weren't expected to intercede in HP-type dramas and whiny "but he/she was meaaaaaaaaaaaaan to me" or "he/she staaaaaaaaaaaarted it" battles. Lot less moderating effort, too. And far fewer complaints that this mod is biased, that mod lets his/her friends/family members get away with stuff that other people couldn't say, etc etc. Et. Freakin'. Cetera.
> 
> I'd really love to see an experiment of no moderation at all for a few weeks ... just getting rid of spam and obvious trolls. Think we'd survive? :happy:



If that were the case all over the board, not just HP. I'd be way cool with that.


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## Wagimawr (Jul 6, 2009)

Observer said:


> 1) leaving Dimensions entirely because such stuff is seen as being sanctioned, or​


As Captain Kirk said about the Klingons, "let them die!"



Observer said:


> 2) by fighting back. which will lead to overlap into other forums and permanently hurt feelings for some.​


This is the problem. As they say on the internets, though:


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## TraciJo67 (Jul 6, 2009)

mossystate said:


> If that were the case all over the board, not just HP. I'd be way cool with that.



I think I need someone to moderate the PMs that you send me, woman. I claim victim.

In fact, I think that everyone BUT Mossystate should be unmoderated. Coz I just roll that way


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## mossystate (Jul 6, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> In fact, I think that everyone BUT Mossystate should be unmoderated. Coz I just roll that way




Well, I am a terror out here...true. Thanks for wanting to save me from myself...and to protect the innocent.


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## exile in thighville (Jul 6, 2009)

Australian Lord said:


> An unmoderated board is just daft and silly. I mean honestly. Strict but fair enforcement of rules (wheather general or specific) is a must.



moderated forums are rhetorically fucked. and sensitive people shouldn't get into arguments they can't handle.


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## Miss Vickie (Jul 6, 2009)

mossystate said:


> I can just hear some people whisper..." yessssssss...goooooo...stop asking for HP ". *L*
> 
> It's really too bad that there needs to be an outside place, but, if that is the way the ball bounces...I hope the word Dims/Dimensions, is *not *part of the name.
> 
> It should belong to the people. Power to the people. Dog bless Americaaaaaaaa.



Yeah, I think you're totally right. Yet again I'm pissed that another need within Dimensions has been met with "Go do your own thing elsewhere. Now am-scray!" (I'm paraphrasing but still...) 

If you guys want to do this, let me know and I'll make a group. But what I need help with is what we should call it. I lack the creative gene, so I leave it up to you. Just let me know and I'll "make it so". It'll be open to anyone at Dimensions, but I'd like it to be private if I can figure out how to do that.



Wild Zero said:


> It's very easy to start "hidden groups" on facebook, when you make a group it's one of the (IIRC) three privacy options.
> 
> Hidden groups only show up on your groups list when you're logged in to your account, activities on them never post wall updates and non-members cannot see them even if they search for the group name.



It sounds great, but I couldn't find it when I was perusing. I'll keep looking into it, though.



TraciJo67 said:


> I'd sign up for this, but I actually like Stan's idea better. I am against heavy moderation of anything but the obvious fat-bashing trolls. If we set up a FB group, we could choose not to moderate each other.



I'd rather stay here, too, but I think we're pushing it. I just don't see it happening, unfortunately. 

Oh and mossy? TOTALLY moderated. It's for her own good.


----------



## Ernest Nagel (Jul 6, 2009)

As my Grandfather was wont to say "Somebody open a window; it's getting too whiny in here." As petitions go this one is pretty weak sauce. I haven't seen one convincing reason to bring HP back. What good did it ever do, really? Why should Conrad commit any bandwidth to it at all? What's in it for him? If you really want it back why not propose a membership fee like the Clubhouse? That would at least keep anyone from stumbling into the batshit craziness by accident. 

Like so many of the threads in HP there's no logic or rational exchange; just tedious, petulant assertions with no facts. There are plenty of places for bare-knuckle arguments on the web; sites where SHOUTING and name-calling are expected and welcome. Why is it so important to have another one here? Srsly, I'm just curious. I have no attachment one way or another but I just don't get the need?  Does it afford a place to show-off for others you want to impress here? To build alliances and force people to choose you over someone else as their friend? Is it to beat down people you just don't like but can't find any excusable reason to attack otherwise? 

It looks to me like a good many of the people who are so determined to have it back just like having a place where they can be unmitigated bullies and bitches without fear of retribution. If that's not the case come up with some reasonable, workable rules that serve more than the vocal, vitriolic minority and maybe Conrad will reconsider. At this point I can't see any worthwhile reason for him to do so. JMO. :bow:

(Acknowledging I haven't read every single post in this thread. If I've missed something please call it to my attention.)


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## Miss Vickie (Jul 6, 2009)

Ernest Nagel said:


> As my Grandfather was wont to say "Somebody open a window; it's getting too whiny in here." As petitions go this one is pretty weak sauce. I haven't seen one convincing reason to bring HP back. What good did it ever do, really? Why should Conrad commit any bandwidth to it at all? What's in it for him? If you really want it back why not propose a membership fee like the Clubhouse? That would at least keep anyone from stumbling into the batshit craziness by accident.



Um. Have you even read this thread? Nice of you to pass judgment on it without apparently even reading it. Had you taken the time, you'd have noticed that we have suggested having it private, and we have suggested a fee for it.

But hey, thanks for giving us the benefit of the doubt.  Belittling our efforts just makes things sooooo much better, doesn't it?



> (Acknowledging I haven't read every single post in this thread. If I've missed something please call it to my attention.)



Not only did you not read every single post, but you didn't even read MOST posts. But hey, thanks for the judgment. We need more of that.


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## mossystate (Jul 6, 2009)

That was amusing...really...amusing. People did not/do not need HP to call names. Ernest, you have done plenty of it, yourself. Let's stop trying to be above such things, but only when applied to others. Christ almighty.

Now I will wait for the excuse of how your personality sometimes has you do this or that...etc...etc..


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## Mathias (Jul 6, 2009)

Ernest Nagel said:


> As my Grandfather was wont to say "Somebody open a window; it's getting too whiny in here." As petitions go this one is pretty weak sauce. I haven't seen one convincing reason to bring HP back. What good did it ever do, really? Why should Conrad commit any bandwidth to it at all? What's in it for him? If you really want it back why not propose a membership fee like the Clubhouse? That would at least keep anyone from stumbling into the batshit craziness by accident.
> 
> Like so many of the threads in HP there's no logic or rational exchange; just tedious, petulant assertions with no facts. There are plenty of places for bare-knuckle arguments on the web; sites where SHOUTING and name-calling are expected and welcome. Why is it so important to have another one here? Srsly, I'm just curious. I have no attachment one way or another but I just don't get the need?  Does it afford a place to show-off for others you want to impress here? To build alliances and force people to choose you over someone else as their friend? Is it to beat down people you just don't like but can't find any excusable reason to attack otherwise?
> 
> ...



I suggest you do that next time, being judgmental gets you nowhere fast.


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## JoyJoy (Jul 6, 2009)

Ernest Nagel said:


> As my Grandfather was wont to say "Somebody open a window; it's getting too whiny in here." As petitions go this one is pretty weak sauce. I haven't seen one convincing reason to bring HP back. What good did it ever do, really? Why should Conrad commit any bandwidth to it at all? What's in it for him? If you really want it back why not propose a membership fee like the Clubhouse? That would at least keep anyone from stumbling into the batshit craziness by accident.
> 
> Like so many of the threads in HP there's no logic or rational exchange; just tedious, petulant assertions with no facts. There are plenty of places for bare-knuckle arguments on the web; sites where SHOUTING and name-calling are expected and welcome. Why is it so important to have another one here? Srsly, I'm just curious. I have no attachment one way or another but I just don't get the need?  Does it afford a place to show-off for others you want to impress here? To build alliances and force people to choose you over someone else as their friend? Is it to beat down people you just don't like but can't find any excusable reason to attack otherwise?
> 
> ...



Ernest, I actually find this entire post pretty insulting, especially the bolded line, as one who has been outspoken about the yanking of HP. The way I see it, the ones who have been most vocal about wanting it back are the ones who tried hard to behave and be civil for the most part, and we were always aware there would be retribution if we stepped out of line. I'm not sure where you get off calling us bullies and bitches. From where I sit, none of the people who have spoken up about wanting it back have been among the worst of the offenders. I hope you'll give more thought to these statements you've made (and actually read the things people have said), because they're highly out of line and completely false.


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## The Orange Mage (Jul 6, 2009)

For those who want to be bullies/bitches/trolls, here you go: 4chan.org

For those who want to have Hyde Park back for actual discussions and debate...sadly it looks like a case of 'tough luck.' =\


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## Mathias (Jul 6, 2009)

The Orange Mage said:


> For those who want to be bullies/bitches/trolls, here you go: 4chan.org
> 
> For those who want to have Hyde Park back for actual discussions and debate...sadly it looks like a case of 'tough luck.' =\



Tough luck in this place, but I'm open to the idea of a facebook type thing.


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## Ernest Nagel (Jul 6, 2009)

Miss Vickie said:


> Um. Have you even read this thread? Nice of you to pass judgment on it without apparently even reading it. Had you taken the time, you'd have noticed that we have suggested having it private, and we have suggested a fee for it.
> 
> But hey, thanks for giving us the benefit of the doubt.  Belittling our efforts just makes things sooooo much better, doesn't it?
> 
> ...





mossystate said:


> That was amusing...really...amusing. People did not/do not need HP to call names. Ernest, you have done plenty of it, yourself. Let's stop trying to be above such things, but only when applied to others. Christ almighty.
> 
> Now I will wait for the excuse of how your personality sometimes has you do this or that...etc...etc..





Mathias said:


> I suggest you do that next time, being judgmental gets you nowhere fast.





JoyJoy said:


> Ernest, I actually find this entire post pretty insulting, especially the bolded line, as one who has been outspoken about the yanking of HP. The way I see it, the ones who have been most vocal about wanting it back are the ones who tried hard to behave and be civil for the most part, and we were always aware there would be retribution if we stepped out of line. I'm not sure where you get off calling us bullies and bitches. From where I sit, none of the people who have spoken up about wanting it back have been among the worst of the offenders. I hope you'll give more thought to these statements you've made (and actually read the things people have said), because they're highly out of line and completely false.



Oooh, yeah, shame on me! Couple of mentions of paid subscription absent any details that went almost totally unnoticed and no substantive rule changes other than "no moderator". Whee! Thanks for wasting my time. Read 'em all though. BTW, see how many responses? In how many days? 

Still, I may have been a little harsh. Many years involved in negotiations of all kinds leave me impatient with people who don't know how to play a weak hand. Here's a tip; offer something. No rep in HP. Rep fines. An arbitration panel. Something! Civility, reason and respect may have little or no value to some of you but if they do to Conrad it's his sandbox. You can attack me as much as you like but it gets you no closer to what you want. I was honestly trying to give you a little nudge in the right direction but the same obliviousness that ended HP should probably doom this petition too? Karma, eh? 

Lemme try a different angle. Maybe if you tried making _ad hominem_ attacks, ignoring reasonable questions and never using facts or references MANDATORY in HP it would go better? Oops, from your responses you've clearly already thought of that! My bad!!

And for the record I quit apologizing for my diagnosed personality disorder some time ago. IRL it's a problem. Online I blend right in. 

And JoyJoy, read what I said after what you bolded. I'd LOVE it if spirited, intelligent debate were available here but I'm a little old for Santa Claus.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jul 6, 2009)

Not for nothing but I don't need HP to give me an excuse for being a bitch. I was before it and will continue to be without it. I am now sad to say, resigned to the idea that the only acceptable things to talk about here is fat, getting fatter, and wanting to get fatter than that. We can lighten it up with a little of what fi I like about the previous poster and yum or yuck, but we won't be discussing anything of any real substance.


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## TraciJo67 (Jul 6, 2009)

I personally love an extra serving of patronized with my ration of scold.



Ernest Nagel said:


> Oooh, yeah, shame on me! Couple of mentions of paid subscription absent any details that went almost totally unnoticed and no substantive rule changes other than "no moderator". Whee! Thanks for wasting my time. Read 'em all though. BTW, see how many responses? In how many days?
> 
> Still, I may have been a little harsh. Many years involved in negotiations of all kinds leave me impatient with people who don't know how to play a weak hand. Here's a tip; offer something. No rep in HP. Rep fines. An arbitration panel. Something! Civility, reason and respect may have little or no value to some of you but if they do to Conrad it's his sandbox. You can attack me as much as you like but it gets you no closer to what you want. I was honestly trying to give you a little nudge in the right direction but the same obliviousness that ended HP should probably doom this petition too? Karma, eh?
> 
> ...


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## JoyJoy (Jul 6, 2009)

No one attacked you, Ernest. As Felecia, the OP, stated: 



superodalisque said:


> relax sweetie. this is just a fun thread. no one needs to wake Conrad.



We were discussing alternatives, civil for the most part, and you jump in here calling us names and criticizing us without even really knowing what was going on. If anything your behavior in this thread is one of your "tedious, petulant assertions with no facts." You came in here attacking US, which is exactly what you were criticizing in your post. 

And....it doesn't seem to me that you actually spent much time on HP. Yes, there was plenty of negativity, but I personally DID find plenty of "spirited, intelligent debate"...but then maybe I'm just not as seasoned as you and easier to please. 

Many of us in this thread have been around Dim long enough to know that once Conrad makes up his mind about something, it's not likely to change, so we haven't bothered trying to come up with a solid alternative here on this site, so if you have read the thread, you'll see that another option is in the works. If you're not going to help, why not stay out of it? 

If being rude and insulting is "blending in", perhaps you should join the petition to get HP back, only as it was, because you'd certainly blend right in posting tripe like this. Your personality disorder excuse is NOT an excuse when you have a backspace button, and you come across as rational in other threads.


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## mossystate (Jul 6, 2009)

Yeah, Ernest, you are the voice of reason. You pick and choose when you claim personality issues. There are plenty of intelligent people out here. Eh, you often come into a thread to tell people they are wrong for not listening, or paying attention to you. Ok, consider this attention. I will wait until you come back, in another thread, with more names. Yawn.


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## Miss Vickie (Jul 7, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> I personally love an extra serving of patronized with my ration of scold.



Really? I myself prefer the crispy coating of condescension. Mmmmm. It's what's for dinner. :eat2:


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## Miss Vickie (Jul 7, 2009)

Okay, so I started a hidden group on facebook so that we'll have a place to discuss grown up things without moderation. Those of you who are interested, please pm me and I'll shoot you an invite. This will be a great place for us "bullies and bitches" to blow off some steam.

Ernest, I assume, given your posts in this thread, that you're not interested?


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## superodalisque (Jul 7, 2009)

mergirl said:


> I think most internet communities need some sort of interesting debates happening to survive. I imagine wanking 24/7 is wearing, plus i am confident there is more to us than just fat and wanking. I enjoyed Hyde park, when my nerves could handle it, though i think Hyde park is kinna dissapating and we are seeing some debate worthy topics springing up in the lounge, lgbt and weight forum, all of which have been pretty respectful even though we have differing oppinions. Maby Hyde park kinna still is in existance but has spread out a bit and is a less potant version.



yes, if dimensions loses its dynamism it won't change when the people change and folks will just go off and play WoW or something else more stimulating. it will be like NAAFA, a slowly dwindling once good idea preserved in concrete badly needing a shot in the arm to survive. disagreement can be and mainly is a very constructive thing. it means that people are passionate. if we keep the passion up for all things political in our lives that is bound to spill over onto SA. not to mention it might be a bad idea to do things that leave people thinking that all they should be doing as fat people and thier admirers is talk about food sex and fat to the exclusion of everything else. that kind of community doesn't look healthy. and ultimately it gets boring. people who get upset often come back but people who get bored never do.


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## mergirl (Jul 7, 2009)

I couldn't agree more. To be honest, in am at the point of taking a haitus from dims because of quite a few things. Firstly, i think the place is moderated to the point of decimation. No one can say how they really feel, which is something i hate even if i disagree with what people are saying. The thing about discussion/argument (call it what you will) is that is stimulates us and it brings us closer together because you can only really accept someone if you can accept that your views are different but you like them on a deeper, real and more fundimental level. 
It really is rediculous, tonight the lgbt forum decided to have a wee party (well it was something we had decided a wee while ago) so, i sent out an invite on the main board ..I felt this was relivent because we are FAT and FA. Both my posts were deleted and i was informed that my posts caused a "dust storm". ???????
THIS is institutionalised Homophobia -A dust storm??!! WTF!?
Yeah..whatever..had this related to any other minority group i would be fucking raging too!! Plus, it just wouldn't have happened
Maby, had Hyde park still been here i might have been able to discuss this properly. 
Someone said to me recently- A forum is only as good as its mods.
I SO wish that MOD picking was some sort of democratic process and there would be a couple who would, in my opinion be put out to pasture!
I learned a LOT from Hyde park. I got angry, i learned that that wasn't always the right way to get my point across. There were some discussions there where i thought i would never think from the perspective of the OP but in some cases i did.
I like the people here i just dont like whats happening..or maby what already was but i just didn't realise. 
Anyway, I really wont stay in a place that is represented (and the mods ARE representatives of here) by out of touch power hungry homophobes. This is sad because as i said i like a lot of the people. I hope a lot of the shit here can be sorted out...
Anyway, there is SO much here that is shoved under the carpet.. and everyone is starting to trip over the bumps!


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## superodalisque (Jul 7, 2009)

mergirl said:


> I couldn't agree more. To be honest, in am at the point of taking a haitus from dims because of quite a few things. Firstly, i think the place is moderated to the point of decimation. No one can say how they really feel, which is something i hate even if i disagree with what people are saying. The thing about discussion/argument (call it what you will) is that is stimulates us and it brings us closer together because you can only really accept someone if you can accept that your views are different but you like them on a deeper, real and more fundimental level.
> It really is rediculous, tonight the lgbt forum decided to have a wee party (well it was something we had decided a wee while ago) so, i sent out an invite on the main board ..I felt this was relivent because we are FAT and FA. Both my posts were deleted and i was informed that my posts caused a "dust storm". ???????
> THIS is institutionalised Homophobia -A dust storm??!! WTF!?
> Yeah..whatever..had this related to any other minority group i would be fucking raging too!! Plus, it just wouldn't have happened
> ...



i don't understand at all why that invite would be deleted. it seemed creative and positive. i like the idea of having a drink with my friends gay or straight and talking together online. do you think it was alcohol that was the problem? otherwise what in the world about it could have stirred up anything? that just doesn't make sense? if that created a duststorm they need a dustbuster.

whatever the reason they need to tell you what it is. one of the problems here with things like that is that people often don't explain what exactly the problem is. they just tell you its something you wouldn't understand , as though you are a child so you are left to assume the worst. it could have been somethig simple and you just weren't told what it was exactly.


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## 1300 Class (Jul 7, 2009)

> moderated forums are rhetorically fucked. and sensitive people shouldn't get into arguments they can't handle.


In real life, yes that perhaps holds some validity. On the internet however it just doesn't work like that. If unmoderated, the internet allows people to say whatever the hell they want _without consequences_ to their words. 

I've seen many a fora that does the whole '_we're not going to mod it, free speech et al_' and after three days the admin/controlling clique realise it was a folly because there was no control, no standards which results in a plithy, meaningless nothingness and ends up either shutting it down, instituting rules or mass bannings which result in a cyclical spamming attacks and counter attacks on their fora in revenge. It got nasty and wrecked a number of formly good places.


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## FaxMachine1234 (Jul 7, 2009)

I wouldn't mind an HP with a ton of moderation (I always thought the main problem with the place was that the "trouble-makers" on both sides of arguments never got reigned in), but the mods have made it clear that they didn't want to take the extra time to moderate it, and I guess they're not asking for new mods either...pity.


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## Mack27 (Jul 7, 2009)

It was a nice place to discuss important things with people you cared about. The lounge is just full of inane drivel. 

My politics really matured in the trenches of Hyde Park. I came to a point where I saw through the lies of both major parties and how meaningless labels like liberal, conservative, left and right have become.

Hey, just for old time's sake here's a quote from the highly controversial book "The Bell Curve" which I in no way endorse except as thought-provoking.



> It is difficult to imagine the United States preserving its heritage of individualism, equal rights before the law, free people running their own lives, once it is accepted that a significant part of the population must be made permanent wards of the states.


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## Mathias (Jul 8, 2009)

fa_man_stan said:


> How about a "Dims Hyde Park" group on Facebook? I've noticed that the groups there have the ability for subscribed members to start threads sort of like how the software here does... a group of us could moderate such a board...
> 
> Just an idea...



I'd like an invite, could you shoot me a PM?


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## stan_der_man (Jul 9, 2009)

Mathias said:


> I'd like an invite, could you shoot me a PM?



Check your reps Mathais!


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## moore2me (Jul 9, 2009)

"_*Those were the days my friends, I thought they'd never end*_ . . ."

Some stuff I would like to talk about now on HP (sigh!)

1. N Korea hacking our computers 4th of July
2. Civil Unrest in China and military response
3. Obama Adm vetoing military flyover at Christian conference
4. Governor secret "vacationing" to see girlfriend
5. Al Franken goes to Congress
6. How's that Federal Budget thingy going?


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## moore2me (Jul 9, 2009)

Just trying to keep the message front page, above the fold.


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## LillyBBBW (Jul 9, 2009)

(quote deleted)

With tear gas, pepper spray and James Brown music pumped in for effect.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jul 9, 2009)

(quote deleted)

I agree that the lounge is full of a lot of fluff, but I don't think that calling the people that post here ninnies is very fair. Not everyone comes here looking for HP type conversations. 

You've posted here (in the lounge) at least twice now. Does that make you a ninny?


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## The Fez (Jul 9, 2009)

(quote deleted)

this made me laugh. It was just full of people hating on eachother

Although I push for the movement to bring it back, so that sort of crap gets put in one sub-forum rather than all over the place like it is now


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## superodalisque (Jul 9, 2009)

i'm happy to report that its been raised from the dead and starting out well


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## LillyBBBW (Jul 9, 2009)

moore2me said:


> "_*Those were the days my friends, I thought they'd never end*_ . . ."
> 
> Some stuff I would like to talk about now on HP (sigh!)
> 
> ...



I would like to talk about the Rupert Murdoch wire tapping scandal with my fellow dimmers. Would love to hear what they think.


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## mediaboy (Jul 9, 2009)

Oh hyde park; how I miss thee.

You and Mack27 and a case of 72 sleep deprivation are the sole reason I have a moderation warning.

I vote no.


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## OIFMountaineer (Oct 26, 2009)

I'm a relative newb here, but throw my name into the hat as being pro-Hyde Park. I don't know what killed the board (though, as a member of other message boards with a politics & religeon section, I can probably guess.), but I do know that there have been threads that have either started in or drifted to the P&R vein. It would be nice to have a place to serve as a catch all for these topics, to avoid cluttering up the lounge, which seems to be intended for lighter fare.


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## superodalisque (Oct 26, 2009)

i think your right. since hyde park left the argumentativeness has spilled over to the rest fo the forums. sometimes people just need a place to vent. sometimes the don't care about what. it would be nice if they had a focus instead of junking up important SA issues with temperament that might be better served by being aiming it at something totally unrelated. i think that for this site SA requires a calm and more level headed approach. my own personal opinion is that other debatable issues should be preserved for the go for the jugular approach here.


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## Paquito (Oct 26, 2009)

I really think that Hyde Park needs to be reinstated. Everyone's going crazy without the soapbox outlet, the boards seem so much more tense nowadays.


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## littlefairywren (Oct 26, 2009)

I am putting my name in to the ring


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## mergirl (Oct 27, 2009)

There IS a hyde park-Its on face book. Everyone is welcome to join- Just ask Fa man stan or Miss Vicky about it and they will add you.
xx


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## Shosh (Oct 27, 2009)

Save your breath people. I reckon there is zero chance of it returning.


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## Mathias (Oct 28, 2009)

I still want it back.


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## LillyBBBW (Oct 29, 2009)

Mathias said:


> I still want it back.



Me too. It's really shitty wanting to talk about important issues with your friends and being prohibited from doing so.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Oct 29, 2009)

LillyBBBW said:


> Me too. It's really shitty wanting to talk about important issues with your friends and being prohibited from doing so.



Indeed .. 

also. 

If you do a search for the word "DOUCHEBAG" you'll notice that it hasn't been said nearly as often since Hyde Park went up in flames.

This forum just ain't what it used to be.


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## Mathias (Oct 29, 2009)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> Indeed ..
> 
> also.
> 
> ...



I still don't even think we got a sufficient enough reason why it got taken away. But if there were some kind of pay to use it option, I'm for that.


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Oct 31, 2009)

Since my job just blocked Dims, I am glad it isn't here cuz I have so many LOUD NOISES to go on about these days. I would post a number of semi-witty, obnoxious political cartoons and 'shops but I have to go rearrange my sock drawer.


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## CleverBomb (Oct 31, 2009)

mergirl said:


> There IS a hyde park-Its on face book. Everyone is welcome to join- Just ask Fa man stan or Miss Vicky about it and they will add you.
> xx


That would involve, you know, _having a facebook account._ 

-Rusty


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 31, 2009)

CleverBomb said:


> That would involve, you know, _having a facebook account._
> 
> -Rusty



A clever man that is the bomb should be able to handle it


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## KuroBara (Oct 31, 2009)

fa_man_stan said:


> Check your reps Mathais!


 

I would like in on the FB group as well, please.


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## Shosh (Oct 31, 2009)

KuroBara said:


> I would like in on the FB group as well, please.



Be careful what you wish for. It is not moderated like it was here, and there would be some who would want to go for the jugular out of spite if nothing else.

Stick to playing Farmville, it will bring you more pleasure.


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## Wagimawr (Nov 1, 2009)

Hey, she might like ripping somebody a new one.

It's fun. Occasionally.


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## CleverBomb (Nov 1, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> A clever man that is the bomb should be able to handle it


Can, yes.
Want to? Not reallly. 

My online presence, such as it is, consists of postings on messageboards and a (now-discontinued, and even before that stagnant) AOL vanity page. 

Haven't felt much need to go beyond that.

-Rusty


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## Mathias (Nov 1, 2009)

Susannah said:


> Be careful what you wish for. It is not moderated like it was here, and there would be some who would want to go for the jugular out of spite if nothing else.
> 
> Stick to playing Farmville, it will bring you more pleasure.



With facebook groups like that they're usually set up so they can be private. Even people who are on your friends list won't be able to see them.


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## fatgirlflyin (Nov 1, 2009)

Susannah said:


> Be careful what you wish for. It is not moderated like it was here, and there would be some who would want to go for the jugular out of spite if nothing else.
> 
> Stick to playing Farmville, it will bring you more pleasure.




Except not. That's the funny thing about people. Treat them like adults and 9 times out of 10 they will act like adults. Treat them like children and impose all kinds of silly little rules and well...


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## 1300 Class (Nov 1, 2009)

> But if there were some kind of pay to use it option, I'm for that.


Why would I want to have to pay to give people another chance to get shitty at me?


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## Shosh (Nov 1, 2009)

I think I am going to forget about all the Hyde Park stuff and just post in the nekkid/ boob type threads. You get more appreciated there.


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## Miss Vickie (Nov 1, 2009)

KuroBara said:


> I would like in on the FB group as well, please.



KuroBara, please PM me your facebook information and I'll be happy to talk to you about joining the group.



Susannah said:


> Be careful what you wish for. It is not moderated like it was here, and there would be some who would want to go for the jugular out of spite if nothing else.
> 
> Stick to playing Farmville, it will bring you more pleasure.





fatgirlflyin said:


> Except not. That's the funny thing about people. Treat them like adults and 9 times out of 10 they will act like adults. Treat them like children and impose all kinds of silly little rules and well...



Fatgirlflyin answered Shosh's post better than I could. My goal with the group has only been to give people a space to talk about the issues which are apparently "too hot" for the Dimensions boards. It's a place for people to blow off steam, and while there is some strong language, there is also a lot of good discussion.

For those who feel the group isn't their cuppa tea, that's fine. Everybody has different needs and desires, and I respect that. And yes, there is no moderation -- I expect people to act like adults, and so far, they have. There are, however, rules and certain minimum requirements for admission, and anyone who wants to be part of it should feel free to contact Stan or myself for more information.


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## fatgirlflyin (Nov 1, 2009)

Susannah said:


> I think I am going to forget about all the Hyde Park stuff and just post in the nekkid/ boob type threads. You get more appreciated there.



You seriously don't see a problem with that Susannah? That you get more appreciation around here for showing tits and ass than you do speaking your mind? 

I guess that's cool if its ok with you. I know for me personally? My mind will be sharp for far longer than I have good looking T&A, so I'd take the appreciation for my mind any day.


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## Les Toil (Nov 1, 2009)

As much as I enjoyed participating in Hyde Park, I can't lie and say it didn't create the ugliest most vicious feuds on this board. People that were generally civil (if not fun and friendly) with each other can quickly develop serious animosity towards each other when their political views are espoused loud and clear. Many of the people I've had heated disagreements with I'm now very much enjoying civil exchanges with. I'm realizing now it wasn't that way when Hyde Park was around. It really, really isn't anyone's fault, it's just that when you know something is black and others know for a fact that it's white, a bit of anger sets in because we believe they're blind or uninformed. 

If brilliant, level-headed world thinkers can get into screaming matches in front of live audiences, it's a joke to think we can easily overcome such things.


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## mergirl (Nov 1, 2009)

Hydepark on facebook works. It has not decended into madness, exactly because it is self regulated. If you admonish people like they are children then some of the time they will behave like children. If people are told by their peers and equals that they are being out of order, they are more likely to listen and take the time to take things in. It's the way we are made. Punish someone for standing up for what they believe in and they just get angry. You can't silence people indefinately if they are not saying what you want them to say, they will find a way of saying it with or without you.


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## Shosh (Nov 1, 2009)

Les Toil said:


> As much as I enjoyed participating in Hyde Park, I can't lie and say it didn't create the ugliest most vicious feuds on this board. People that were generally civil (if not fun and friendly) with each other can quickly develop serious animosity towards each other when their political views are espoused loud and clear. Many of the people I've had heated disagreements with I'm now very much enjoying civil exchanges with. I'm realizing now it wasn't that way when Hyde Park was around. It really, really isn't anyone's fault, it's just that when you know something is black and others know for a fact that it's white, a bit of anger sets in because we believe they're blind or uninformed.
> 
> If brilliant, level-headed world thinkers can get into screaming matches in front of live audiences, it's a joke to think we can easily overcome such things.



Well said.


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## Miss Vickie (Nov 2, 2009)

mergirl said:


> Hydepark on facebook works. It has not decended into madness, exactly because it is self regulated. If you admonish people like they are children then some of the time they will behave like children. If people are told by their peers and equals that they are being out of order, they are more likely to listen and take the time to take things in. It's the way we are made. Punish someone for standing up for what they believe in and they just get angry. You can't silence people indefinately if they are not saying what you want them to say, they will find a way of saying it with or without you.



This is true. I'd like to think that people can self-regulate, and so far, it's worked quite well. I know there are people in the group who have different political views and probably don't particularly like each other, but they are able to coexist peacefully (even feeders and non feeders alike are managing to do that!) and I think we're off to a pretty good start.


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Nov 3, 2009)

Les Toil said:


> As much as I enjoyed participating in Hyde Park, I can't lie and say it didn't create the ugliest most vicious feuds on this board. People that were generally civil (if not fun and friendly) with each other can quickly develop serious animosity towards each other when their political views are espoused loud and clear. Many of the people I've had heated disagreements with I'm now very much enjoying civil exchanges with. I'm realizing now it wasn't that way when Hyde Park was around. It really, really isn't anyone's fault, it's just that when you know something is black and others know for a fact that it's white, a bit of anger sets in because we believe they're blind or uninformed.
> 
> If brilliant, level-headed world thinkers can get into screaming matches in front of live audiences, it's a joke to think we can easily overcome such things.



I am actually glad HP is gone in many ways. I get my daily allotment of Vitamin D from the giant yellow ball in the blue ceiling, and this odd thing in my day known as "work" seems to get done with much greater efficiency. There are times when I question the utility of arguing with an audience who may never agree with you (Philistines though they are) despite the fun we all had.


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## southernfa (Nov 4, 2009)

Having 'been away' for a while, I missed the fun and games and was sort-of-surprised to see Hyde Park gone on returning, although it certainly wasn't the first time Conrad has had to take action.

I'd vote for a return as it did provide a venue for discussions that don't really fit in the lounge or main board.


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## superodalisque (Nov 4, 2009)

Les Toil said:


> As much as I enjoyed participating in Hyde Park, I can't lie and say it didn't create the ugliest most vicious feuds on this board. People that were generally civil (if not fun and friendly) with each other can quickly develop serious animosity towards each other when their political views are espoused loud and clear. Many of the people I've had heated disagreements with I'm now very much enjoying civil exchanges with. I'm realizing now it wasn't that way when Hyde Park was around. It really, really isn't anyone's fault, it's just that when you know something is black and others know for a fact that it's white, a bit of anger sets in because we believe they're blind or uninformed.
> 
> If brilliant, level-headed world thinkers can get into screaming matches in front of live audiences, it's a joke to think we can easily overcome such things.



thats a good point. the only problem is that now that there is no hyde park people have taken the fun and games elsewhere in ways that make it hard for people to discuss anything. all of the personal animous that used to get contained there has spilled out in ways that deter people from having free thoughts about SA and sexuality elsewhere. there are some folks that just need to come online to get their rocks off and maybe they need a place to do it. if you start banning them they'll only say its because of thier beliefs and not because they are just rude and inhibit other people from free use of whats been here for a long time already without ridicule. i don't know if there is anything else that can be done about that situation except to keep them busy where it doesn't impact people who are vulnerable and trying to find themselves so negatively.


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## Mathias (Nov 5, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> thats a good point. the only problem is that now that there is no hyde park people have taken the fun and games elsewhere in ways that make it hard for people to discuss anything. all of the personal animous that used to get contained there has spilled out in ways that deter people from having free thoughts about SA and sexuality elsewhere. there are some folks that just need to come online to get their rocks off and maybe they need a place to do it. if you start banning them they'll only say its because of thier beliefs and not because they are just rude and inhibit other people from free use of whats been here for a long time already without ridicule. i don't know if there is anything else that can be done about that situation except to keep them busy where it doesn't impact people who are vulnerable and trying to find themselves so negatively.



It kind of seems like a lose lose situation. When hyde park was here, there was hostility but only in hyde park, or it wasn't as noticeable anywhere else. Now with it gone, the bitterness seems to have come flying from all directions.


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