# Belly Rub for Luck?!?!?



## Lavasse (Mar 8, 2009)

Ok guys has this ever happened to you? I was at the bar with some friends and this chick who I don't know comes up to me. She puts one arm around my neck and with the other starts rubbing my stomach saying she wanted to make a wish. She said cause I had a belly like buddha. Then she walked away. At bar close I was walking through the crowd and happen to go by her and she did it again,telling the people she was with she had been rubbing me all night for luck. So has this ever happened to anyone else?


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## escapist (Mar 8, 2009)

Lavasse said:


> Ok guys has this ever happened to you? I was at the bar with some friends and this chick who I don't know comes up to me. She puts one arm around my neck and with the other starts rubbing my stomach saying she wanted to make a wish. She said cause I had a belly like buddha. Then she walked away. At bar close I was walking through the crowd and happen to go by her and she did it again,telling the people she was with she had been rubbing me all night for luck. So has this ever happened to anyone else?



LOL Dude, I got this Hawaiian chick doing it just about a week ago at the Boulder Station Casino, she won $400....ahhh it was a fun night. Not quite the same, I can't say they walk up to me and do it. I usually get them to do it, its not exactly hard. Note: it does seem to work best with Asian women, they tend to giggle and get a little shy but LOVE IT! That's when I tease them about there cute little giggle. After a seconds you can even go back in and say "Hummm, you look like your starting to run low again here try it again just to make sure." this works best with some other playful fun interaction too.


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## Uriel (Mar 8, 2009)

Haha,

Yep, I've had both men and women rub my belly...

Funny, I have a bunch of Chinese friends (The guys who run the aquarium store that I shop at), and several rubbed my belly, on their way to Reno. One came back 6 or 7 hundred up, and another lsot almost a grand...and he DIDN'T rub my belly. Hahaha! He's really superstitious...
He said that he wants to call me before he goes next time, so that I can come down for some Luck-Granting...Hehehe. I said , sure cut me in for 20%. He joked and agreed to 10%, but I told him I was kidding. 



-Uriel


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## escapist (Mar 8, 2009)

See don't doubt the power of the Buddha Belly!


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## warwagon86 (Mar 8, 2009)

haha i have a t-shirt that says that lol


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## Lavasse (Mar 8, 2009)

I think I need a shirt that says "Rub Here" now lol


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## Esther (Mar 9, 2009)

I find that _incredibly_ rude of her. You could have taken that a lot worse than you did; what if she did that to someone who was really insecure with themselves? She could have really hurt somebody's feelings.
It blows my mind how some people feel entitled to touch strangers with certain qualities. Big men's bellies, pregnant women's bellies, bald heads, heavily tattooed skin... if you're one of those people, it's like everyone has a right to fuckin' manhandle you.
But then again, I don't like being touched by people I don't know so maybe I just take that a lot more personally than other people would.


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## escapist (Mar 9, 2009)

Um actually many women tend to feel perfectly ok to touch guys cause "guys want to be touched" this is why one of the first things guys with skills say is "wow hands of the merchandise, that's $5 this stuff isn't free."....or "OMG your so grabby". Makes for a pretty fun night and games if you ask me.


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## ClockworkOrange (Mar 9, 2009)

This thread is giving me ideas for t-shirts


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## JiminOR (Mar 9, 2009)

I've had my belly rubbed plenty of times for luck, I've never minded. Hell, I rub it for luck myself sometimes. I've never had a guy rub it for luck though, that would be kind of weird.


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## Melian (Mar 9, 2009)

Esther said:


> I find that _incredibly_ rude of her. You could have taken that a lot worse than you did; what if she did that to someone who was really insecure with themselves? She could have really hurt somebody's feelings.
> It blows my mind how some people feel entitled to touch strangers with certain qualities. Big men's bellies, pregnant women's bellies, bald heads, heavily tattooed skin... if you're one of those people, it's like everyone has a right to fuckin' manhandle you.
> But then again, I don't like being touched by people I don't know so maybe I just take that a lot more personally than other people would.




Yeah, I completely agree - touching random people is highly rude.

If someone did that to me I'd probably retort with "now let me rub your ginormous ass to see if a genie comes out," or "if you're off to your STD blood test you'll need more luck than that, cum dumpster." I'm friendly like that.


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## Tad (Mar 9, 2009)

escapist said:


> Um actually many women tend to feel perfectly ok to touch guys cause "guys want to be touched" this is why one of the first things guys with skills say is "wow hands of the merchandise, that's $5 this stuff isn't free."....or "OMG your so grabby". Makes for a pretty fun night and games if you ask me.



I agree with this.....I'd say she was testing to see if you had flirting game. I bet if you'd responded like that, it would have been _on._ I'm terrible at reacting to that sort of thing in the moment, but along the lines of "armchair flirt coordinator" I'd suggest maybe "Hey, I can't believe you just _stole_ that good luck. What are you going to do to pay me back?"


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## Lavasse (Mar 9, 2009)

Esther said:


> I find that _incredibly_ rude of her. You could have taken that a lot worse than you did; what if she did that to someone who was really insecure with themselves? She could have really hurt somebody's feelings.
> It blows my mind how some people feel entitled to touch strangers with certain qualities. Big men's bellies, pregnant women's bellies, bald heads, heavily tattooed skin... if you're one of those people, it's like everyone has a right to fuckin' manhandle you.
> But then again, I don't like being touched by people I don't know so maybe I just take that a lot more personally than other people would.



*runs up, touches Esther, then runs away*


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## escapist (Mar 9, 2009)

edx said:


> I agree with this.....I'd say she was testing to see if you had flirting game. I bet if you'd responded like that, it would have been _on._ I'm terrible at reacting to that sort of thing in the moment, but along the lines of "armchair flirt coordinator" I'd suggest maybe "Hey, I can't believe you just _stole_ that good luck. What are you going to do to pay me back?"



EXACTLY! Might be a little strong, but that is the general idea, I would go for a "Safe Payment" if you don't know her. However you can see some positive sings of interest even just a smile and eye contact at this point. I'm sure you can point to your cheek and go "Uh excuse me, first time belly rubs cost a kiss." Very important that you make it a cheek kiss, if she wants more she will probably let you know by her body language, lip licking eye contact all that. I notice they tend to kind of dance in front of you when they are waiting for that kind of thing. Like they are getting impatient if you don't do it fast enough they get more uncomfortable. I can only assume (since I'm not a girl) that is kind of a "Oh well maybe he isn't really into me" thing.

The game is really on if she asks or hints that she wants to know what another belly rub is going to cost her....I might even tease her and "hummm I don't know you well enough yet" and pull her into the next phase of attraction so you can actually get know her and have valid reasons for liking her other than the fact she likes you. "Say if she looks ethnic or exotic or is very attractive its a great way to pull off, "Your very attractive, but look around beauty is common, what else do you have going for you besides you looks?" She might respond with "Oh I'm going to beauty school" or whatever (personally this is where I pull out oh, really what do you think of my nails? [yes my nails are done, and I pulled my last pickup like this]). Remember to let the tension build and release, "That's so HOT! I used to date a girl like you. I can't even talk to you anymore" (pretend to turn, and be uninterested/to interested and let her pull you back in with the "wait, why don't go.".

Not sure how I turned this into a dating advice thread but oh well, I have to admit I do use belly rubs as a pick up tool. For shy BHM's out there Lurking and just read (yeah we know your there) Just give it a try...the worst that can happen is they look at you funny call you a name or something...and trust me...I don't think I've even had it happen from the belly rub....helps that I live and Vegas and everybody is looking for a little luck.


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## rabbitislove (Mar 9, 2009)

I will agree with Esther and Melian. It is rude to touch somebody you dont know like that, especially if you dont know that they're insecure.

However, Im assuming this girl was drunk, and even if not, it probably does no good to yell at her. I'd say joke if you feel comfortable, or pull her aside if you think its a douche move. She's living in a culture where this is acceptable, and its important that she is told that it can be hurtful. 

On that note, I think my reason for converting to Buddhism must have been all the statues of the Maytreita Buddha (aka the fat topless happy Buddha)


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## Canonista (Mar 9, 2009)

Lavasse said:


> Ok guys has this ever happened to you? I was at the bar with some friends and this chick who I don't know comes up to me. She puts one arm around my neck and with the other starts rubbing my stomach saying she wanted to make a wish. She said cause I had a belly like buddha. Then she walked away. At bar close I was walking through the crowd and happen to go by her and she did it again,telling the people she was with she had been rubbing me all night for luck. So has this ever happened to anyone else?



Tell her if she wants to get REALLY lucky to rub lower.


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## TraciJo67 (Mar 9, 2009)

Melian said:


> Yeah, I completely agree - touching random people is highly rude.
> 
> If someone did that to me I'd probably retort with "now let me rub your ginormous ass to see if a genie comes out," or "if you're off to your STD blood test you'll need more luck than that, cum dumpster." I'm friendly like that.



I would have just said, "Sorry, I don't have any magical powers. You're still a skank."


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## escapist (Mar 10, 2009)

You all would hate me, I'm so touchy feely cuddly it isn't funny. I get such a high endorphin release of it I swear I can almost get drunk from it. So I just have fun with it. You have to really creep me out to get a negative response from me about it, or just have horrible timing.


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## Melian (Mar 10, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> I would have just said, "Sorry, I don't have any magical powers. You're still a skank."







escapist said:


> You all would hate me, I'm so touchy feely cuddly it isn't funny. I get such a high endorphin release of it I swear I can almost get drunk from it. So I just have fun with it. You have to really creep me out to get a negative response from me about it, or just have horrible timing.



I do hate you.


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## Tad (Mar 10, 2009)

I notice that most of the strong negative reactions are coming from women. Not so surprising to me, because from what I’ve heard a lot of women have to deal with guys trying to get a feel on the sly, and those guys are almost always creepy (as in: don’t expect they could ever their hands on the woman in a legitimate way, so are grapping a quick feel with no expectations of it being well received).

Guys generally don’t have that problem. Whether women are less apt to be creepy or just less motivated to grab a quick squeeze, I don’t know, but very seldom do you hear of guys having that happen to them from women, and then it is usually at something like a club where people are drunk, and some woman gives a guy’s ass a squeeze, and even then it is usually not so much a furtive thing as more like a challenge.

So I suspect that, on average, guys don’t have the same sensitivity to strangers touching them that women do. Which is not to say that they will always be delighted, as this thread highlights, but I don’t think many guys have the instinctive “get that creep away from me” reaction. *shrug*


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## fat hiker (Mar 10, 2009)

edx said:


> I notice that most of the strong negative reactions are coming from women. Not so surprising to me, because from what Ive heard a lot of women have to deal with guys trying to get a feel on the sly, and those guys are almost always creepy (as in: dont expect they could ever their hands on the woman in a legitimate way, so are grapping a quick feel with no expectations of it being well received).
> 
> Guys generally dont have that problem. Whether women are less apt to be creepy or just less motivated to grab a quick squeeze, I dont know, but very seldom do you hear of guys having that happen to them from women, and then it is usually at something like a club where people are drunk, and some woman gives a guys ass a squeeze, and even then it is usually not so much a furtive thing as more like a challenge.
> 
> So I suspect that, on average, guys dont have the same sensitivity to strangers touching them that women do. Which is not to say that they will always be delighted, as this thread highlights, but I dont think many guys have the instinctive get that creep away from me reaction. *shrug*




Funny, I was just thinking the same thing. I don't have a problem with strangers touching me, as longs as there's no 'creepy' thing going on, "Unless" there's an attempt to hurt - pinching, poking really hard, etc. I wonder if guys have less problems because, at least in sports circles, backslaps, pokes, etc. are common between younger guys - do girls coming off the playing field after a win or a great game backslap and high-five one another? I don't know, but guys do.


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## Tad (Mar 10, 2009)

fat hiker said:


> I wonder if guys have less problems because, at least in sports circles, backslaps, pokes, etc. are common between younger guys - do girls coming off the playing field after a win or a great game backslap and high-five one another? I don't know, but guys do.



Good point, that could be part of it too.....but I'd almost think that it might be more effect than cause: that because guys are not so sensitive about their bodies being touched, these things become normal?


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## escapist (Mar 10, 2009)

Melian said:


> I do hate you.



DAMN! I knew it! 



fat hiker said:


> Funny, I was just thinking the same thing. I don't have a problem with strangers touching me, as longs as there's no 'creepy' thing going on, "Unless" there's an attempt to hurt - pinching, poking really hard, etc.



I think your right its far more of a sensitive issue to women not so much men. That is why women tend to be more touchy feely with men, and think nothing of it (especially when trying to tool a guy for money, a free ride, a drink, dinner & a movie) I see it CONSTANTLY in Vegas, this is why I will not buy a woman the first drink, if she buys me one I will buy her one. "Its the polite thing to do, and its what I do with my friends."

When going for physical contact with a woman I don't know there is absolutely a way to do and a way not to do it. For guys who are wondering what I'm talking about I suggest Googling the term _"Kino Escalation"_ comfort and strong attractive tension are everything when you doing something like this with someone you don't know. You can't just jump into it. Unless you have some other attraction triggers going off first....example, The Rockstar and the Groupy, neither of them would complain about such things cause there is already HUGE attraction switches going off before it even happens (like pre-selection). This is nothing new, its been known for a long time, its why in music video's they take a nobody and put TONS of women around him/them, all the sudden WOW he/they/whatever is HOT! Oh look its the Next Great Rapper or Boy Band, with thousands of women dreaming about sex with a guy they don't even know...but OMG HE is HOT!


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## BLUEeyedBanshee (Mar 10, 2009)

I have to admit...I have thought about it...but never acted on it.

How bald heads are another being altogether. If I talk to you long enough (and notice I said talk to you long enough) I'm gonna rub your head if you're bald or at least pretty short brush cut. I wouldn't do it if I didn't talk for awhile first though.

I agree with ya ed. There are differences in how men and women react to touching by strangers.


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## escapist (Mar 10, 2009)

BLUEeyedBanshee said:


> I have to admit...I have thought about it...but never acted on it.
> 
> How bald heads are another being altogether. If I talk to you long enough (and notice I said talk to you long enough) I'm gonna rub your head if you're bald or at least pretty short brush cut. I wouldn't do it if I didn't talk for awhile first though.
> 
> I agree with ya ed. There are differences in how men and women react to touching by strangers.



And that is exactly why a guy doing the "Woah, this isn't free, that's $5." sets off such a chain reaction its amazing. Most women do it without thinking cause its just "The Norm" so by drawing attention to it they kind of get a little shock to the system. Careful though, 1 time I had to girls fighting over me when I did it! Her friend started flipping out that she kept trying to touch me after I said it, and it turned into a total cat fight! "He said don't touch him!"...I admit I was thrilled but totally shocked.


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## WillSpark (Mar 10, 2009)

In my group of friends, pokes, hugs, tickling, etc. are common ground, bro-hugs included, so you guys would hate me too. You'd always be getting hugged and tickled.


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## Melian (Mar 10, 2009)

WillSpark said:


> In my group of friends, pokes, hugs, tickling, etc. are common ground, bro-hugs included, so you guys would hate me too. You'd always be getting hugged and tickled.



Nah...all that stuff is fine, among friends*. 

It's the random touching from complete strangers that can get creepy.



*I don't even want to admit some of the things I do with my friends....


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## djudex (Mar 10, 2009)

> *I don't even want to admit some of the things I do with my friends....



One of my good female friends used to every once in a while reach up underneath, grab my balls and give them a good tug when I was trying to play pool in order to distract me. I usually kicked her butt anyway but she got an A+ for effort!


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## Esther (Mar 10, 2009)

WillSpark said:


> In my group of friends, pokes, hugs, tickling, etc. are common ground, bro-hugs included, so you guys would hate me too. You'd always be getting hugged and tickled.



I'm cool with _that _sort of stuff... I personally get a bad, bad case of the hugs when I've been drinking enough. But, like Melian said, it's the random strangers doing it that pisses me off. My first instinct is to punch them.


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## Uriel (Mar 10, 2009)

So,last night, while bartending...

Goth night, a drunk 'Cougar' is on the dance floor, grabbing butts here (Boys and girls), kissing random cheeks there.
At one point, she is at our bar, and Shawn (The other bartender) is laughing, chatting with her, and she gestures for him to go to the side door (Where you enter the bar).
The next thing I know, she is BEHIND our bar (A no-no, unless you work at the club), trying to stuff tips into Shawn's pants.

Hehehe, I'm laughing at his very uncomfortable expression, and then she rushed past him...right at me.



I instantly go to protect my shirt top and crotch (Where she had tried to stuff money into Shawn's clothes), and she fakes me out, shoves her hands under my shirt, rubs my belly and slurs 'Lucky!' and runs off...




It's like she had read this damned thread.


Shawn spent the rest of the night laughing and asking if I thought she might have gotten lucky, and could he rub my belly too. Hehe
I guess I deserved it, since I laughed hysterically, when I saw her trying to tip him, 'Stripper-Style'.

I hope she was Lucky enough to get home OK, she was hammered.


-Uriel

PS: OK, it was pretty fucking funny in retrospect, and I instantly thought of this thread... Ha


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## Esther (Mar 10, 2009)

edx said:


> I notice that most of the strong negative reactions are coming from women. Not so surprising to me, because from what Ive heard a lot of women have to deal with guys trying to get a feel on the sly, and those guys are almost always creepy (as in: dont expect they could ever their hands on the woman in a legitimate way, so are grapping a quick feel with no expectations of it being well received).
> 
> Guys generally dont have that problem. Whether women are less apt to be creepy or just less motivated to grab a quick squeeze, I dont know, but very seldom do you hear of guys having that happen to them from women, and then it is usually at something like a club where people are drunk, and some woman gives a guys ass a squeeze, and even then it is usually not so much a furtive thing as more like a challenge.
> 
> So I suspect that, on average, guys dont have the same sensitivity to strangers touching them that women do. Which is not to say that they will always be delighted, as this thread highlights, but I dont think many guys have the instinctive get that creep away from me reaction. *shrug*



You're absolutely right, I think. I know I've definitely been grabbed/felt up in bars a few times, and I absolutely hate it.


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## Uriel (Mar 10, 2009)

edx said:


> I notice that most of the strong negative reactions are coming from women. Not so surprising to me, because from what I’ve heard a lot of women have to deal with guys trying to get a feel on the sly, and those guys are almost always creepy (as in: don’t expect they could ever their hands on the woman in a legitimate way, so are grapping a quick feel with no expectations of it being well received).
> 
> Guys generally don’t have that problem. Whether women are less apt to be creepy or just less motivated to grab a quick squeeze, I don’t know, but very seldom do you hear of guys having that happen to them from women, and then it is usually at something like a club where people are drunk, and some woman gives a guy’s ass a squeeze, and even then it is usually not so much a furtive thing as more like a challenge.
> 
> So I suspect that, on average, guys don’t have the same sensitivity to strangers touching them that women do. Which is not to say that they will always be delighted, as this thread highlights, but I don’t think many guys have the instinctive “get that creep away from me” reaction. *shrug*



Not so, as far as guys getting grabbed, but in a situation that you might not be aware of.

So, as many women here will tell you (The Guys). gay men often grab their breasts, 'just to feel them' or whatever. Most girls are at least neutral to this, find it funny, etc... It happens at clubs a lot, and maybe it is just more common in SF.

Well, I am here to tell you that the reverse happens (Sort of).
One night,years back, I felt little hands on my ass.
I looked down to see a short little latina Dyke )Lesbian Hip-Hop event, with tons of 'Thug' girls).
She shrugged and said 'Nice butt!'



It would happen another dozen times at lesbian events over the next couple of years, and I must say, I didn't care much for it. I also find the 'It's OK if I grab her boobs, I'm gay' to be a bit bullshit as well. While some of the girls don't mind, or even like it (Drunks and all...), I see others who are very uncomfortable, dealing with what they should take as 'No big deal'. First time a girl grabbed my ass:confused, Second time: Sort of funny, Eighth time: WTF!?!
Just figured I'd relate a story from a guy who doesn't like it.
People also think it's Ok to grab fat guy's 'Moobs' in the same manner, or at least grab at my nipples (It's cold, mine are always hard at work).

Hehehe, I just remembered.
We have a security guard at work who always grabs peoples nipples.
Most of the other guys just yell and laugh, as he gives them a 'titty twister' (BTW, he is waaayyyy too 'I'm not gay!' to be...not gay, but that is another story). He has grabbed mine in the past, which I'm not a fan of. The last time he did it went like this.

Me:'Dude, what the fuck?'
Him: (Laughing) 'Haha, they were sticking out!'
Me: 'It's cold. Stop grabbing my nipples.'
Him:'Tell them to stop sticking out! (Laughs some more).
Me: (Smiling slyly) 'My nipples are hard-wired directly to my c*&k, Rob.'
Him:...'Ok...'
Me:'So, unless you want me to f&@k you, don't grab them.'

He looked really uncomfortable and moved off, and hasn't grabbed them since! Hehehehe


-Uriel


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## steely (Mar 10, 2009)

I don't give off a touch me vibe.I am a big believer in personal space.I have gotten better but I still won't hug my own family or in laws.Just who I am.


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## Lavasse (Mar 11, 2009)

Melian said:


> Nah...all that stuff is fine, among friends*.
> 
> It's the random touching from complete strangers that can get creepy.
> 
> ...




Come on now you gotta tell us lol


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## chicken legs (Mar 11, 2009)

My luck has been improving


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## escapist (Mar 11, 2009)

chicken legs said:


> My luck has been improving



 :blush: :happy:


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## Lavasse (Mar 11, 2009)

escapist said:


> :blush: :happy:



Hmmmmm I think I know who chicken legs been rubbing for luck lol


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## escapist (Mar 11, 2009)

Lavasse said:


> Hmmmmm I think I know who chicken legs been rubbing for luck lol



Colonel Sanders? 



I should be jealous but all I can think of now is Mmmmmm Biscuits, Mashed Potatoes, & Fried Chicken....mmmm must be dinner time.


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## Canonista (Mar 13, 2009)

escapist said:


> You all would hate me, I'm so touchy feely cuddly it isn't funny. I get such a high endorphin release of it I swear I can almost get drunk from it. So I just have fun with it. You have to really creep me out to get a negative response from me about it, or just have horrible timing.



I'm funny about people in my space. Giving a woman an embrace (usually a side-hug) is my way of saying she's okay by me and welcome in my space. To reject this gesture makes me feel VERY alienated and unwelcome, and they'll go straight from "friend" to "just some person" in an instant.

It's emotional and illogical, but it's just how I react to people who overreact to the embrace and the meaning behind it.


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## Canonista (Mar 13, 2009)

BLUEeyedBanshee said:


> I have to admit...I have thought about it...but never acted on it.
> 
> How bald heads are another being altogether. If I talk to you long enough (and notice I said talk to you long enough) I'm gonna rub your head if you're bald or at least pretty short brush cut. I wouldn't do it if I didn't talk for awhile first though.
> 
> I agree with ya ed. There are differences in how men and women react to touching by strangers.




Dang. Now I regret growing my hair out....:doh:


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## TraciJo67 (Mar 13, 2009)

Canonista said:


> I'm funny about people in my space. Giving a woman an embrace (usually a side-hug) is my way of saying she's okay by me and welcome in my space. To reject this gesture makes me feel VERY alienated and unwelcome, and they'll go straight from "friend" to "just some person" in an instant.
> 
> It's emotional and illogical, but it's just how I react to people who overreact to the embrace and the meaning behind it.



I don't like to be touched, especially by strangers. It is difficult for me to hug my own family members. I'm just not at all touchy-feely. The only people that I am completely comfortable sharing my personal space with are my husband and my son. 

If someone that I don't know very well tried to give me a hug, I would likely freeze up. I probably wouldn't reject the hug (unless it was from a man who put off some vibes that skeeved me), but it would be obvious that I'm not comfortable. I can't help that reaction, anymore than you can help how you feel about people rejecting physically friendly overtures from you.

I have to admit, very emotive people set my teeth to vibrating. I have to remind myself that this is MY issue, not theirs. People have a right to express themselves as their hard-wired personalities dictate. I have probably lost out on opportunities to befriend some very good people because I couldn't get beyond their outwardly expressive styles. I have probably also been rejected as a potential friend for the same reason. I can be viewed as cold and unresponsive to people who do not know me well, and I have to make a supreme effort to project warmth to other people, especially to clients. It isn't that I don't feel it. It is that I just don't show it, naturally.


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## BLUEeyedBanshee (Mar 13, 2009)

Canonista said:


> Dang. Now I regret growing my hair out....:doh:



You have hair? How long? Where's pics?


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## Canonista (Mar 13, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> I don't like to be touched, especially by strangers. It is difficult for me to hug my own family members. I'm just not at all touchy-feely. The only people that I am completely comfortable sharing my personal space with are my husband and my son.
> 
> If someone that I don't know very well tried to give me a hug, I would likely freeze up. I probably wouldn't reject the hug (unless it was from a man who put off some vibes that skeeved me), but it would be obvious that I'm not comfortable. I can't help that reaction, anymore than you can help how you feel about people rejecting physically friendly overtures from you.
> 
> I have to admit, very emotive people set my teeth to vibrating. I have to remind myself that this is MY issue, not theirs. People have a right to express themselves as their hard-wired personalities dictate. I have probably lost out on opportunities to befriend some very good people because I couldn't get beyond their outwardly expressive styles. I have probably also been rejected as a potential friend for the same reason. I can be viewed as cold and unresponsive to people who do not know me well, and I have to make a supreme effort to project warmth to other people, especially to clients. It isn't that I don't feel it. It is that I just don't show it, naturally.




I wouldn't give you a big ol' hug the first time I met you, but after a few months of frequent interaction I'd do the side-hug thing, look at you sweetly, and say "You know what? You're good people. I like having you around". I'd then remove my arm and go on about my business. 

I'm not rich enough to leave you in my will, so that'll have to do as a show of appreciation. 

Are you sure you're not mildly autistic?  It's not intended as an insult, it's just that autistic people I've talked to in depth about their disorder have said similar things. It's not a matter of poor character or intelligence, it's just how they're wired to ingest data presented to them, then react to it.


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## TraciJo67 (Mar 13, 2009)

Canonista said:


> I wouldn't give you a big ol' hug the first time I met you, but after a few months of frequent interaction I'd do the side-hug thing, look at you sweetly, and say "You know what? You're good people. I like having you around". I'd then remove my arm and go on about my business.
> 
> I'm not rich enough to leave you in my will, so that'll have to do as a show of appreciation.
> 
> Are you sure you're not mildly autistic?  It's not intended as an insult, it's just that autistic people I've talked to in depth about their disorder have said similar things. It's not a matter of poor character or intelligence, it's just how they're wired to ingest data presented to them, then react to it.



I'm not insulted. I'm laughing  

No, I'm not autistic. I'm just a very classic, very introverted INTJ (if you groove on that psychobabble that is the Myers-Briggs, which, given the field that I'm in, I'm pretty much contractually obligated to pay it credence ). I also have well-defined spatial boundaries. 

I think that there are more people like me out there than you may imagine, Dennis. I responded because I hoped that you'd understand that someone who doesn't react favorably to what you obviously mean with the very best of intentions very likely didn't react consciously at all. 

I have a brother-in-law, btw, who makes ME seem like the warmest, most engaging person you'd ever meet. I was laughing at your question because when I first met him (and attempted a very awkward and disastrous hug), I wondered the exact same thing.


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## escapist (Mar 13, 2009)

Canonista said:


> I'm funny about people in my space. Giving a woman an embrace (usually a side-hug) is my way of saying she's okay by me and welcome in my space. To reject this gesture makes me feel VERY alienated and unwelcome, and they'll go straight from "friend" to "just some person" in an instant.
> 
> It's emotional and illogical, but it's just how I react to people who overreact to the embrace and the meaning behind it.



It sounds to much like you need the approval. Someones reaction would never make me categorize them just cause they aren't comfortable touch yet. Spend a few weeks touching strangers and you will start to see the patterns form how when and why its ok and how much is ok. Work on building yes ladders of compliance. If you fail to get compliance with your touch its just that you didn't build enough attraction and comfort and they are not sure why you want to be touching them. I'd rather tell a woman I'm gay shut off warning system and build comfort: "If I wasn't gay you would be so my type." The problem is many will assume you want something from them they are not prepared to give you yet. Shut it down, turn it off and then you can then have fun; just be friends, or who knows let something real build for real reasons not just shallow, I'm hot, she's hot BS.


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## Canonista (Mar 13, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> I'm not insulted. I'm laughing
> 
> No, I'm not autistic. I'm just a very classic, very introverted INTJ (if you groove on that psychobabble that is the Myers-Briggs, which, given the field that I'm in, I'm pretty much contractually obligated to pay it credence ). I also have well-defined spatial boundaries.
> 
> ...




My social problems are from a childhood head injury. It was medical malpractice from my delivery. The doctor, through negligence, caused bleeding in my brain. I don't handle loud environments well at all. The louder people get the more I want to run away. I can get overstimulated and overwhelmed by "in your face" people and react badly. It's why I can't debate FTF but I can type out a response fairly well.

When I suggested Autism, it was from a position of someone with a brain-related disability.


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## TraciJo67 (Mar 13, 2009)

Canonista said:


> My social problems are from a childhood head injury. It was medical malpractice from my delivery. The doctor, through negligence, caused bleeding in my brain. I don't handle loud environments well at all. The louder people get the more I want to run away. I can get overstimulated and overwhelmed by "in your face" people and react badly. It's why I can't debate FTF but I can type out a response fairly well.
> 
> When I suggested Autism, it was from a position of someone with a brain-related disability.



It was a valid question, Dennis. Believe me, I'm not insulted. I understood why you asked.


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## Tad (Mar 13, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> No, I'm not autistic. I'm just a very classic, very introverted INTJ. I also have well-defined spatial boundaries.



Traci;

Do you consider this characteristic of INTJ? (just wondering, because my wife is rather like that, and she is a very introverted INTJ......)

ETA: PS. Now I understand why when I read your posts I feel compelled to agree with them so often *L*


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## TraciJo67 (Mar 13, 2009)

Ed, I'd be careful to suggest that it is an INTJ characteristic -- but I would assume that a higher percentage of INTJ's do have spatial boundary issues than other types. I think that my aversion to touch is probably the combination of a hard-wired genetic trait and conditioning. My parents weren't huggy/feely people either. 

In any event, you're a lucky guy. INTJ's rule  I'm doubly fortunate, in that I'm also married to one. Yeah, we're the life of any party :happy:



edx said:


> Traci;
> 
> Do you consider this characteristic of INTJ? (just wondering, because my wife is rather like that, and she is a very introverted INTJ......)
> 
> ETA: PS. Now I understand why when I read your posts I feel compelled to agree with them so often *L*


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## Canonista (Mar 13, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> In any event, you're a lucky guy. INTJ's rule  I'm doubly fortunate, in that I'm also married to one. Yeah, we're the life of any party :happy:









So how did you manage to have a kid without letting someone get so close to you? I'm trying to visualize you, your husband, and the trajectory from across the room.


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## user 23567 (Mar 14, 2009)

I actually don't mind...sometimes I even charge


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## TraciJo67 (Mar 14, 2009)

Canonista said:


> So how did you manage to have a kid without letting someone get so close to you? I'm trying to visualize you, your husband, and the trajectory from across the room.



Immaculate conception 

(We adopted)


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## iheartsquishys (Mar 15, 2009)

Canonista said:


> Are you sure you're not mildly autistic?  It's not intended as an insult, it's just that autistic people I've talked to in depth about their disorder have said similar things. It's not a matter of poor character or intelligence, it's just how they're wired to ingest data presented to them, then react to it.



Haha...good call. I'm autistic and I was thinking the same thing when I read that. I'm the same way except rather than my teeth chattering it feels more like my stomach is trying to digest a polyethylene coated steel I-beam. If it happens to be an attractive squishy I get over it much faster but if they're new I get freaked out.

I don't think I could handle it if people randomly came up and started rubbing my belly. That has happened to guys I've dated and I get uncomfortable when other people do it. I get uncomfortable for my boyfriend but also really angry. 

I get to do that because he is my boyfriend. Other people don't. Its not theirs to touch.  Not that its mine either but he's given me permission and we have a relationship. It means something when I rub his belly and I don't like other people getting to do that. I try to remind myself that they see it as a casual joke but it still pisses me off. I really hate it when the guy goes along with it like its nothing. He knows it means something and he shouldn't let it happen. I know it seems crazy and that its just me that has that perspective so I should try to see it from the perspective of the rest of the world but I can only change the way I think about it, not the way I feel about it.

The guys made some good points about girls being much more comfortable about touching a guy because of the perceived attitude that guys are more comfortable being touched. I'll have to keep that in mind.


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## Lavasse (Mar 15, 2009)

Well I went to the same bar last and no one rubbed me.

Kinda disappointed lol


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## Tad (Mar 16, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> In any event, you're a lucky guy. INTJ's rule  I'm doubly fortunate, in that I'm also married to one. Yeah, we're the life of any party :happy:



Ah, well we are completely different from you two then, given that Im an INTP  Although Im moderate on the I and she is moderate on the N, so I end up being taking charge of much of the extroverting stuff, while she ends up with much of the sensing stuff, so there is specialization beyond the P/J scale.

And yes, upbringing/culture surely plays into the personal space equation too. :bow:


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## escapist (Mar 17, 2009)

Lavasse said:


> Well I went to the same bar last and no one rubbed me.
> 
> Kinda disappointed lol



Did you have your T-Shirt on?






http://www.customink.com/designs/buddabel2/12142759-2568803/hotlink?cm_ven=hotlink&cm_cat=2&cm_pla=Body_txt&cm_ite=design


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## Lavasse (Mar 17, 2009)

No lol I wasn't wearing that shirt.


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