# Freaks to Freaks



## superodalisque (Jan 20, 2008)

i had a discussion with some "little people" last night. they posed an interesting question. Do you think that BBWs ever accept FETISH LIKE behaviors in their men because deep inside they really feel that they look like a "freak" so that only another "freak" could possibly like them?


disclaimer: i dont think BBWs or admirers are freaks. i just wanted to know what you thought about this dynamic.

*waits in the corner for an intense ass kicking*

try number 122 at the worlds longest run on sentence


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## goofy girl (Jan 20, 2008)

Way back ages ago I did. But ya grow up, you get some self esteem, meet some good people who deal with the same issues, meet some people who deal with different issues, and you learn to see things a whole new way.


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## AnnMarie (Jan 20, 2008)

I think there are women who will do anything a man wants to do because they have no sense of self worth or self-esteem. They're the chicks who are into feeding because he's into feeding, or the girls who wear giant hooker heels because, although she hates them, he thinks they're the ONLY shoes that a "real woman" should wear. 

These types of women and men run across the board in preferences and social groups, so while I think they exist, I don't think it's even remotely unique to fat people and partners. 

If you have no self-esteem, you will often go for what "you" consider to be the lowest common denominator - because you think it's all you can get, and you compromise everything about yourself just so you have someone. 

Sad, honestly. 

Glad I'm not that girl anymore.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jan 20, 2008)

Can't rep Ann Marie right now, but YES!!!

Living a low quality life attracts low quality people. And that has nothing to do with size. Size, though, readily becomes a favorite excuse. Some more favorite excuses:

Age

Economic class

Belief System

I bet you even recognize some of these excuses from others!

If someone's attracting low quality people, then they need to look at the life they're leading. Does it have the quality that attracts someone they want?

If Woman A has no friends, is drinking a bottle of wine a night, and constantly complains about her life being lonely to coworkers, the only place she socializes, is it any surprise the only men asking her out are weird fetishists?

If Woman B has a small circle of friends she spends time with at least weekly, a number of hobbies, and is an enjoyable person to be around, she'll find having loving, satisfying relationships not all that hard.

BE what you want to attract. I don't mean this in terms if you like muscle men, be a muscle man, but if you want to attract a loving, positive, supportive relationship based on trust and unconditional love, be an unconditionally loving, positive, trustworthy, supportive person.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jan 20, 2008)

I "accepted a fetish type behavior" in my ex-husband- he had a foot fetish. I didn't do it because I thought we were both freaks....I did it because I loved him, saw no harm in it and wanted him to be happy/satisfied. People can both give and take when in a loving relationship. The problem occurs if the fetish becomes too intense/overwhelming with one partner feeling "used" and not having their own desires considered important.
It's no different than any other compromise/give and take of any relationship.


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## AnnMarie (Jan 20, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I "accepted a fetish type behavior" in my ex-husband- he had a foot fetish. I didn't do it because I thought we were both freaks....I did it because I loved him, saw no harm in it and wanted him to be happy/satisfied. People can both give and take when in a loving relationship. The problem occurs if the fetish becomes too intense/overwhelming with one partner feeling "used" and not having their own desires considered important.
> It's no different than any other compromise/give and take of any relationship.



Oh yeah, totally agree on that take, yes. I mean, we all have things we like or want that maybe aren't what get the partner going, but we often will do things to make the person we love happy. I think there's a HUGE difference in those types of relationship compromises, and doing something that you just don't want to do, would never even consider doing, just so you can have x-guy like you.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jan 20, 2008)

^^ I concur that there are some things that people do for the sake of acceptance and out of a feeling of desperation. I also think most people know the difference when they are doing/living it....or at least I hope they do.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jan 20, 2008)

GEF, you're completely right. And who wants to date a 100% vanilla person? That's just boring.

Big difference on laying your weight and eating a couple slices of cheesecake on a guy once a week because he thinks it's hot than eating an entire cake every couple days because otherwise he'll leave you.


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## goofy girl (Jan 20, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I "accepted a fetish type behavior" in my ex-husband- he had a foot fetish. I didn't do it because I thought we were both freaks....I did it because I loved him, saw no harm in it and wanted him to be happy/satisfied. People can both give and take when in a loving relationship. The problem occurs if the fetish becomes too intense/overwhelming with one partner feeling "used" and not having their own desires considered important.
> It's no different than any other compromise/give and take of any relationship.




I completely agree!


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## D_A_Bunny (Jan 20, 2008)

I agree with you ladies. It is the same as taking two hours to make homemade potato pancakes even though you really could care less for them, just because you know he loves them. Or going to a foreign film with sub-titles cause that is what he is into. Or in my case, a car show. 
As long as there is no self esteem or pain in the process, it is what we do for those we love. Sometimes doing something (or letting them do to you) is worth it to see their joy and happiness. Plus what comes around goes around and I am always in for a good bartering. Cause there are things that I want that I am willing to trade for.
I think this is what makes a "couple". The things that they share together that they do not share with others. 
But as the other ladies have said, come from a good place and you will attract good things.


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## superodalisque (Jan 20, 2008)

DumbAssBunny said:


> I agree with you ladies. It is the same as taking two hours to make homemade potato pancakes even though you really could care less for them, just because you know he loves them. Or going to a foreign film with sub-titles cause that is what he is into. Or in my case, a car show.
> As long as there is no self esteem or pain in the process, it is what we do for those we love. Sometimes doing something (or letting them do to you) is worth it to see their joy and happiness. Plus what comes around goes around and I am always in for a good bartering. Cause there are things that I want that I am willing to trade for.
> I think this is what makes a "couple". The things that they share together that they do not share with others.
> But as the other ladies have said, come from a good place and you will attract good things.



well not exactly. let me clarify. that wasn't really the gist of the question. the analogy would go something like this: it would only be the same if you felt and a lot of people had said that your potatoe pancakes were really disgusting. you could never decide if they were bad or simply a unique taste because you didn't have the self esteem to really judge for yourself. and the only thing your partner ever asked from you was that you could make potatoe pancakes. and if you failed to make potatoe pancakes you knew that the person would have another lady right in there making potatoe pancakes with a similar recipe as soon as he could manage it. all he ever talked about were your potatoe pancakes and he wouldn't really care if you felt fulfilled or not. in fact he'd like showing everybody who didn't like your potatoe pancakes how delicious he thought they were. because you were unsure of yourself you wouldn't know if you should be embarrased or proud. there would never be a time when he'd say "i just love her because she is wonderful" only that "her potatoe pancakes make me hot".

but i understand your point though. my example is very different from what i call love play. when you do something sexy for someone you care about that cares about you. even if it isn't exactly your thing its somehow very exciting for you too. i'd like to see my partner go nuts myself. they were talking about a situtation where the woman was 100% objectified and she felt it was all she was worth--nothing in it for her. i should have pinned down what i meant before.


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## Jane (Jan 20, 2008)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> GEF, you're completely right. And who wants to date a 100% vanilla person? That's just boring.



Hey, I've had some DAMN GOOD vanilla.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 20, 2008)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> GEF, you're completely right. And who wants to date a 100% vanilla person? That's just boring.



Ah - MEN! (you said it sistah!)


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## superodalisque (Jan 20, 2008)

Jane said:


> Hey, I've had some DAMN GOOD vanilla.


good is the operative word. if its not of the highest quality you might to have to add more swirlies, sparkles and sprinkles to liven it up . 

before you throw a punch --i was kidding!, i was kidding already!


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## prettysteve (Jan 20, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I "accepted a fetish type behavior" in my ex-husband- he had a foot fetish. I didn't do it because I thought we were both freaks....I did it because I loved him, saw no harm in it and wanted him to be happy/satisfied. People can both give and take when in a loving relationship. The problem occurs if the fetish becomes too intense/overwhelming with one partner feeling "used" and not having their own desires considered important.
> It's no different than any other compromise/give and take of any relationship.



Miss Green Eyes: There is nothing wrong with a little foot fetish as long you don't have any toe jam or foot fungus problems.Besides there is nothing like a woman's soft sexy clean feet in the mouth to turn a man on.Ouch! I think I just spit out a toenail!:eat2:


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## Judge_Dre (Jan 20, 2008)

I think it depends on your background. I'm in my twenties and I usually hangout in the various goth/industrial clubs here in NYC. Fetishes are accepted by most people I come across and anyone who judges someone based on that is looked down upon. I'm assuming you're using the term "freak" in a negative way. Hippies back in the 60's loved being called freaks. Many of my friends call themselves freaks. If you have the mentality to not accept fetishes and to view those into them as perverts, you really have no business taking part in such things. It only makes you feel degraded and used. If you feel dirty doing these things you then look unfavorable at the many normal people who do enjoy those type things.

Also let's not forget, it not only men with fetishes. I've met many women who had their own fetishes they wanted to explore.


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## superodalisque (Jan 20, 2008)

Judge_Dre said:


> I think it depends on your background. I'm in my twenties and I usually hangout in the various goth/industrial clubs here in NYC. Fetishes are accepted by most people I come across and anyone who judges someone based on that is looked down upon. I'm assuming you're using the term "freak" in a negative way. Hippies back in the 60's loved being called freaks. Many of my friends call themselves freaks. If you have the mentality to not accept fetishes and to view those into them as perverts, you really have no business taking part in such things. It only makes you feel degraded and used. If you feel dirty doing these things you then look unfavorable at the many normal people who do enjoy those type things.
> 
> Also let's not forget, it not only men with fetishes. I've met many women who had their own fetishes they wanted to explore.




i agree. your right. i wasn't using freak in the anti-establishment/counter-cultural sense though. at least not for the BBW anyway. and i do know that there is a variance on the idea of of whether BBWs are freaks among FAs. depends on who you're talking to and what the word freak means to them. but a BBW who is trying to find herself and is not a goth or a fetishist herself, isn't generally seeking out the kind of behavior i was describing. but, she usually finds it anyway. some BBWs might adapt to it just because they think no one else will ever accept them and that they are a freak in the negative sense, thats what i'm asking about.

do you think you have ever come across BBWs who engages in the kind of things you might like(not necessarily a fetish) just because she is afraid that she might not have another choice? that she might not meet another FA?


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## Jane (Jan 20, 2008)

Judge_Dre said:


> I think it depends on your background. I'm in my twenties and I usually hangout in the various goth/industrial clubs here in NYC. Fetishes are accepted by most people I come across and anyone who judges someone based on that is looked down upon. I'm assuming you're using the term "freak" in a negative way. *Hippies back in the 60's loved being called freaks. *Many of my friends call themselves freaks. If you have the mentality to not accept fetishes and to view those into them as perverts, you really have no business taking part in such things. It only makes you feel degraded and used. If you feel dirty doing these things you then look unfavorable at the many normal people who do enjoy those type things.
> 
> Also let's not forget, it not only men with fetishes. I've met many women who had their own fetishes they wanted to explore.




It is the only acceptable term.


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## Judge_Dre (Jan 20, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> do you think you have ever come across BBWs who engages in the kind of things you might like(not necessarily a fetish) just because she is afraid that she might not have another choice? that she might not meet another FA?



No, but I have met girls who were labeled "sluts" back in high school because they would sleep with everyone. After getting to know them, I found that they were usually low self-esteemed girls who wanted attention. I'm guess this is similar if not the same dynamic you are referring to.


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## superodalisque (Jan 20, 2008)

Judge_Dre said:


> No, but I have met girls who were labeled "sluts" back in high school because they would sleep with everyone. After getting to know them, I found that they were usually low self-esteemed girls who wanted attention. I'm guess this is similar if not the same dynamic you are referring to.




pretty much


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## Waxwing (Jan 20, 2008)

There's such a huge difference (thank god) between engaging in something that you may not love because your partner thinks it's hot, and doing so even when it upsets you just because you're afraid of being alone. 

I'm sure this happens in relationships spanning EVERY attraction and fetish. Certainly not just the FA/BBW community. 

I'm willing to do things to turn on my partner (you know, in the event that I actually have one) because I care about them and want them to be happy. But that doesn't mean that I would subvert myself and my own beliefs in order to make someone stay. At that point it's not about your body or your societal status, but about your sense of self.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jan 20, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i had a discussion with some "little people" last night. they posed an interesting question. Do you think that BBWs ever accept FETISH LIKE behaviors in their men because deep inside they really feel that they look like a "freak" so that only another "freak" could possibly like them?
> 
> 
> disclaimer: i dont think BBWs or admirers are freaks. i just wanted to know what you thought about this dynamic.
> ...



I think that some accept the behavior because of low self esteem and thinking that they can't do any better. I think others participate in the behavior because they enjoy it. Nothing wrong with Johhny liking Emma to sit on him while eating a cupcake, so long as Emma doesn't feel disgusting doing it and only does it because she knows that if she doesn't, Johnny will go down the street and see Nicole who's only all too happy to sit on him and eat whatever he wants. On the other side of that same coin, is Emma who just loves sitting on Johhny (or maybe doesn't necessarily enjoy it but does it because it just floats his boat) and it works for them in their relationship.

In a perfect world every woman (and man) would know their own self worth and never do anything that they didn't feel 100% comfortable with. Sadly we dont live in that perfect world and sometimes, some women do things that make their own negative feelings about themselves multiply.


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## ripley (Jan 20, 2008)

Ella Bella said:


> if she doesn't, Johnny will go down the street and see Nicole who's only all too happy to sit on him and eat whatever he wants.



I think a lot of SS/BBWs, even with good self-esteem, can worry about this. It's happened to a friend of mine...and it could happen to me. It's why I'm picky about who I'll consider as someone real (and not just an online flirt buddy) and someone I won't. That's why I'm still alone, ha.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jan 20, 2008)

ripley said:


> I think a lot of SS/BBWs, even with good self-esteem, can worry about this. It's happened to a friend of mine...and it could happen to me. It's why I'm picky about who I'll consider as someone real (and not just an online flirt buddy) and someone I won't. That's why I'm still alone, ha.



My dear, it happens to lots of women period. Fat or thin. Women outnumber men and there is always some woman out there willing to do what you won't. 

You just gotta be one of those women (and I think you are) who won't compromise on what makes her happy and feel whole, only to be able to say they are in a relationship with someone.


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## Fascinita (Jan 20, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i had a discussion with some "little people" last night. they posed an interesting question. Do you think that BBWs ever accept FETISH LIKE behaviors in their men because deep inside they really feel that they look like a "freak" so that only another "freak" could possibly like them?



Are we talking about what we ourselves will do for love, or what we think other people should/shouldn't do in their relationships? Isn't everyone's relationship different? I imagine some women do and some women don't. But what can we do, either way, about other people's choices? Why should it matter?

I definitely will not accept fetishistic behavior if it goes against my grain. But there, again, I can't give an across-the-board answer as to what goes against my grain, or not.

If the question is whether some women feel bad about being fat and therefore will take whatever attention is thrown their way, then I imagine, yes, there are some such women. 

I've always more or less accepted my own body, even when I was working actively to be thinner--I haven't, for many years now--I knew that I'd be OK with it if my plans didn't work. I think that was healthy. I've never "settled" for the freak's attention because I felt bad about myself. But I have "settled" for the freak's attention when my dating reality has been so dire--where are all the FAs? holla!--that I felt like I was willing to explore the slim pickings available. One lesson I learned was that the freak is never the way to go. It's not only creepy, but actually can be physically dangerous, if the freak "lives" in a "reality" of his own making that is very much removed from the everyday reality of you and me.


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## superodalisque (Jan 20, 2008)

Ella Bella said:


> My dear, it happens to lots of women period. Fat or thin. Women outnumber men and there is always some woman out there willing to do what you won't.
> 
> .



i know that this is kind of what the world looks like. or a lot of guys want to paint it that anyway. its just another way to manipulate people into giving them what they want, or innocently enough their being very confused about what life is all about. but i don't think there are a lot of women who do everything a guy would want with enthusiasm ,that men really want to spend any amount of time with --other than in the bedroom. thats assuming thats all she has that he needs. usually there is a relationship happening or not happening somewhere. otherwise it wears off eventually. then people begin looking around for the rest that a relationship has to offer and there's nothing there. thankfully not all men remain so immature that all they can ever think about is getting their freak on.

a lot of guys do mature and really understand that. thats why i think they have such a dilemma when it comes to their preference at times. i've known some guys who are very shocked that it was possible for them to fall for a woman outside of their preference. 

i have noticed this in guys who also want to "fight the fat". they meet a fantastic fat woman and think they can't be sexually turned on by her. then they are totally surprised when they were. they never thought of it as a choice what with all the social brainwashing. but somehow they find they can't do without her and never turn back. i actually know people like that and it isn't a myth. 

in a way i think some FAs put the brakes on if they find themselves being attracted to a thin girl. i think some of them feel they are disloyal to all the big girls they love, both sexually and as friends. some of them really feel for us and want the best for us. i know a lot of BBWs who treat FAs as outright traitors if they don't act as though smaller girls are disgusting. i have heard some FAs say that they think an attraction to a small girl is an anomally and that they can't maintain the interest long term. they hear all of the stories from older disillusioned guys with bad relationships and think it will apply to them. often they are too young to realize that most of the loss of interest can be applied to what would naturally happen in a bad relationship.


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## Fascinita (Jan 20, 2008)

Ella Bella said:


> Women outnumber men and there is always some woman out there willing to do what you won't.



Actually, it appears that this is something of a popular misconception. The ratio of men to women diminishes drastically in late life (60s to 80s), but it is about even in the middle, "dating" and "mating" years. Between the ages of 18 and 44, male:female ratios fluctuate between 100.1 and 97.2, in the U.S. So we're really talking about three "extra" women, at most, who won't be able to find mates, all other things being equal. 

It may be, though, that many more women want to pair off permanently than there are men willing to indulge them  This may put women in a position of having to compete for the relatively few men who are willing to "settle down."

www.census.gov/prod/2003pubs/p20-544.pdf


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## LoveBHMS (Jan 20, 2008)

It's all commentary about how _women_ might engage in certain degrading behaviour to keep men.

And many of the posts are by women, looking at other women's behaviour while proudly saying that *they* would never behave the way other desperate, sad, low self esteemed women would behave.

We really are our own worst critics aren't we?

FWIW, there are men that do things they don't want to do just to hold onto their partners. (I'm including men in both homo and heterosexual relationships in that statement.) In fact I'd almost say that on average, women have an easier time being single then men do, if only because we tend to find it easier to form bonds and friendships so we don't always need a romantic partner to keep from being alone.


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## Fascinita (Jan 20, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> It's all commentary about how _women_ might engage in certain degrading behaviour to keep men.
> 
> And many of the posts are by women, looking at other women's behaviour while proudly saying that *they* would never behave the way other desperate, sad, low self esteemed women would behave.
> 
> We really are our own worst critics aren't we?



Yeah, this is why I asked why we should care about what other women choose, and gave only my own example as all I am willing to vouch for.

However, I can appreciate that there is a curiosity in the OPs original question about how we gauge ourselves as regards this question of whether we're OK with our fat, and what the consequences of not being OK with it are. Let's face it, day-to-day, fat is reviled, belittled, looked past, harped on, etc., etc. _ad nauseam_. It's only natural that questions of self-esteem crop up in our discussions of it.


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## LoveBHMS (Jan 20, 2008)

I just don't really think the fact of having a fetish says anything about a person. It's not as if "the fetish people" are some weird subgroup of humanity. How often do you read an article in a magazine about sex workers who report that their customers come from all walks of life ("I see teachers, professional athletes, bankers, waiters, clergymen...")

I've known people that have fetishes, and honestly, they're just people whose sexuality has a twist. They work, go to school, read, jog, spend time with family and friends, cook, etc.

What it really comes down to is behaviour and how you express the fetish. If it's done with like minded partners who are consenting adults with understood parameters in the relationship, I think it's fine. If you lie, manipulate, or objectify another person...not fine.

Edited to add: If a guy wanted me to weigh a thousand pounds and to that end he was going to build me a house with a moat so I could paddle around all day, I'd totally think about it. Moats kick ass.


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## Fascinita (Jan 20, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> I just don't really think the fact of having a fetish says anything about a person.



I tend to agree with this in principle. In my case, the fetish cases I've met in "dating" scenarios--admittedly few--have also been people who seemed to me removed from reality somehow. However, I know some people, on a platonic level, who enjoy fetishes and are perfectly nice in all ways.


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## ripley (Jan 20, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Edited to add: If a guy wanted me to weigh a thousand pounds and to that end he was going to build me a house with a moat so I could paddle around all day, I'd totally think about it. Moats kick ass.



But there is that pesky barnacle problem...


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## LoveBHMS (Jan 21, 2008)

I think the issue again is behaviour. 

If somebody wants a fetish partner, they need to be clear about that, both with themselves and the other person. If the woman wants a boyfriend and the guy just wants a pair of feet to worship, they're going to be at odds.

I think if you have a particularly strong fetish, it's hard. Because you have two choices if you also want a partner: one is to look for potential girlfriends at S&M clubs or shoe fetish conventions or breast expansion websites and hope you find somebody you like; the other is to find a regular girl and eventually tell her you want to lick her shoes or for her to get 55GGG breast implants or to wear a dog collar.

Your friends who you know have fetishes are obviously nice normal people because you've gotten to know them as friends. Once you know them as 'normal people' and they tell you, "Oh, by the way...I'm into some freaky shit" you think "Well, Bob's a normal guy who happens to just like _______."

If you encounter somebody in a dating situation, especially if it's BBW related, you're more likely to encounter the guy who's there because he has a fat fetish and figures you're cool with being fat so he can just go full throttle with the fat talk and roll grabbing. If that same exact guy met you in a bookstore or in church, he would probably be far less apt to behave that way.


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## LoveBHMS (Jan 21, 2008)

ripley said:


> But there is that pesky barnacle problem...



True! But once I know a man has gone to the trouble of building me a house with a moat, I just know he's the sort who'll be only too happy to scrape barnicles off my thousand pound ass.


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## Fascinita (Jan 21, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> If you encounter somebody in a dating situation, especially if it's BBW related, you're more likely to encounter the guy who's there because he has a fat fetish and figures you're cool with being fat so he can just go full throttle with the fat talk and roll grabbing. If that same exact guy met you in a bookstore or in church, he would probably be far less apt to behave that way.




Well, I was talking about people that I got to know over some time. And the fetish just seemed to take over the interaction. I didn't make it clear, when I said "dating," that it wasn't just one or two dates. So I did get the chance to see substantial interaction with these people. So my impressions that they were removed from reality to some extent are not superficial impressions. Again, just speaking of my own experiences.


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## butch (Jan 21, 2008)

I have a question for the OP-I'd like to know more about your discussion with Little People and how they factor into yout thoughts/questions. Are you saying that Little People desiring folks (are they LPAs-Little People Admirers?) are like FAs, and Little People (of either gender, or only women?) are comparable to BBWs (and, does it matter if we talk about fat men and FFAs-are they different)? I guess I'm also wondering if you're saying that Little People and Fat People are Freaks, without problematizing this in any way, and that is why you included Little People in your original post?

There is a researcher who I've read a little of her work, and she looks at the Amputee Sex Community. There are some interesting similarities between the FA/BBW community and the Amputee Devotee Community. Really interesting stuff, if you're interested in the topic of alternative sexuality fixated on non-average body types.


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## The Orange Mage (Jan 21, 2008)

I definitely know what the whole "removed from reality" thing is like. It's almost like some FAs put away their FA-ness in a box, and never touch it for a while, but then they decide to finally act on those preferences and the box explodes violently.

So really, it's their desires that are removed from reality, and that's why they're so freakish about dealing with them...they have not reconciled fantasy with reality.


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## ZainTheInsane (Jan 21, 2008)

AnnMarie said:


> I think there are women who will do anything a man wants to do because they have no sense of self worth or self-esteem. They're the chicks who are into feeding because he's into feeding, or the girls who wear giant hooker heels because, although she hates them, he thinks they're the ONLY shoes that a "real woman" should wear.
> 
> These types of women and men run across the board in preferences and social groups, so while I think they exist, I don't think it's even remotely unique to fat people and partners.
> 
> ...



This irritates the living shit out of me! (not the post, but girls who act like that)

Seriously, I find it incredibly irritating when I tell a girl about something I happen to like, and instead of stating whether she likes it or not, she spews some line of crap about how she would do it because I like it.

That's just garbage, and makes me want to dump said girl instantly if I'm dating her, and if I'm interested in dating her, I'll lose interest at that point.

Although the idea and fantasy of a woman who would enjoy everything I like fetish wise, and indulge me is awesome...I don't want that in reality.

I had a long talk with myself in my car yesterday (what else is a fellow to do on a two hours ride home from visiting friends?). And during that ride I debated with myself whether I would truly want my girlfriend to just indulge me in what I liked, or if I would want her to just be herself. And then I realized my ex was that way, and I hated it. She would have done anything to please me...but I don't want some woman who is itching to please me like it is her job.

I'd rather have a real woman, with real feelings, and real thoughts, who desires a relationship that is composed of two people, their thoughts, emotions, and desires...not just one person, and a veritable slave.

So, yeah, I may be slightly disappointed when I tell my girlfriend something I like when we have discussions about this or that, and she points out that it isn't something she'd want, or it isn't something she'd be into...BUT the fact that she is independent, willing to communicate her thoughts, and is in fact willing to try new things that I like, while I'm willing to do the same for her, is amazing...and it is a fun dynamic.

I'm probably not communicating what I mean well...but in any case, I think that in fantasy finding a woman who likes all those freaky deaky things I might like is cool...I realize I'm not willing to have someone without confidence or their own opinions and thoughts just to get it. If I'm going to find someone who fits my fantasies and fetishes, she has to like them herself, and not because she wants to please me.


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## SparklingBBW (Jan 21, 2008)

"One of us! One of us! One of us! One of us!"


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## butch (Jan 21, 2008)

Genarose54 said:


> "One of us! One of us! One of us! One of us!"



Ha ha-you know I have the movie on DVD-a classic Tod Browning film. Banned in the UK for a really long time, too.

Please, for the love of all that is holy in the world of horror cinema, see this movie tonight if you haven' seen it yet.


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## Elfcat (Jan 21, 2008)

I think there are a lot of people with "fetish-like" behavior across the board. Who hasn't made a statement to the effect that a particular body part of another human evokes sexual reactions? Chest, breasts, buns, hips, eyes, hair, what have you? I think of all this as fetish of those areas. Do only losers do this? I think not judging by what I've seen. Same with what I would describe as kinks, which is to me reactions to particular activities or physical contexts. Get a warm feeling when seeing that athlete on the field putting his or her personal best out? Well guess what, you have an exercise kink! Of course we know a bit about culinary kinks around here, and you don't have to be a feeder to have them either. I don't tell anyone what to eat (well, except sometimes that it's organic), but I can swoon from watching a good lick off a strawberry or an ice cream cone with the best of em.

So being a freak is the opposite of what? Living to the test published on crisp white paper by the arbiters of what is proper living down to the last minutiae? As the Tao Te Ching says, "When all the world sees good as good, this itself is evil. When all the world sees beauty as beauty, this itself is ugly."


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## ripley (Jan 21, 2008)

butch said:


> I have a question for the OP-I'd like to know more about your discussion with Little People and how they factor into yout thoughts/questions. Are you saying that Little People desiring folks (are they LPAs-Little People Admirers?) are like FAs, and Little People (of either gender, or only women?) are comparable to BBWs (and, does it matter if we talk about fat men and FFAs-are they different)? I guess I'm also wondering if you're saying that Little People and Fat People are Freaks, without problematizing this in any way, and that is why you included Little People in your original post?
> 
> There is a researcher who I've read a little of her work, and she looks at the Amputee Sex Community. There are some interesting similarities between the FA/BBW community and the Amputee Devotee Community. Really interesting stuff, if you're interested in the topic of alternative sexuality fixated on non-average body types.




Okay I feel really stupid now because I took "little people" to mean her thin friends. :blush:


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## Fascinita (Jan 21, 2008)

ZainTheInsane said:


> makes me want to dump said girl instantly if I'm dating her, and if I'm interested in dating her, I'll lose interest at that point.



SO if she does as you like, you won't dump her? If she does as you like by _not_ telling you she'll do as you like, you will date her?


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## superodalisque (Jan 21, 2008)

butch said:


> I have a question for the OP-I'd like to know more about your discussion with Little People and how they factor into yout thoughts/questions. Are you saying that Little People desiring folks (are they LPAs-Little People Admirers?) are like FAs, and Little People (of either gender, or only women?) are comparable to BBWs (and, does it matter if we talk about fat men and FFAs-are they different)? I guess I'm also wondering if you're saying that Little People and Fat People are Freaks, without problematizing this in any way, and that is why you included Little People in your original post?
> 
> There is a researcher who I've read a little of her work, and she looks at the Amputee Sex Community. There are some interesting similarities between the FA/BBW community and the Amputee Devotee Community. Really interesting stuff, if you're interested in the topic of alternative sexuality fixated on non-average body types.



i meant people who are thin. sorry, that was a bit idiosyncratic.

do you have a link or information where i can look that up. i'd love to read it.


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## superodalisque (Jan 21, 2008)

Elfcat said:


> I think there are a lot of people with "fetish-like" behavior across the board. Who hasn't made a statement to the effect that a particular body part of another human evokes sexual reactions? Chest, breasts, buns, hips, eyes, hair, what have you? I think of all this as fetish of those areas. Do only losers do this? I think not judging by what I've seen. Same with what I would describe as kinks, which is to me reactions to particular activities or physical contexts. Get a warm feeling when seeing that athlete on the field putting his or her personal best out? Well guess what, you have an exercise kink! Of course we know a bit about culinary kinks around here, and you don't have to be a feeder to have them either. I don't tell anyone what to eat (well, except sometimes that it's organic), but I can swoon from watching a good lick off a strawberry or an ice cream cone with the best of em.
> 
> So being a freak is the opposite of what? Living to the test published on crisp white paper by the arbiters of what is proper living down to the last minutiae? As the Tao Te Ching says, "When all the world sees good as good, this itself is evil. When all the world sees beauty as beauty, this itself is ugly."



i don't think what you were talking about is a fetish really. feeling that someone ias attractive and adoring how they look and even relishing their body parts is very different from treating them 100% like a non-person.


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## Littleghost (Jan 21, 2008)

ZainTheInsane said:


> This irritates the living shit out of me! (not the post, but girls who act like that)
> 
> Seriously, I find it incredibly irritating when I tell a girl about something I happen to like, and instead of stating whether she likes it or not, she spews some line of crap about how she would do it because I like it.
> 
> ...



Waiter!
Get this man some rep!


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## butch (Jan 21, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i meant people who are thin. sorry, that was a bit idiosyncratic.
> 
> do you have a link or information where i can look that up. i'd love to read it.



Hi superodalisque,

Sorry to have misconstrued your use of little people, but with a title of 'Freaks to Freaks,' and Little People being the term of choice for folks of distinctive short stature, that is exactly where my mind went (much like it does whenever I see BBW, even if it doesn't always mean that in some contexts).

The amputee devotee researcher is named Alison Kafer-you can Google her, but I'm not sure how much of her research is available online. I read one of her papers in a book called Gendering Disability (ed. by Smith and Hutchison), which you can check out at Amazon.com.

Carry on.


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## Jane (Jan 22, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> SO if she does as you like, you won't dump her? If she does as you like by _not_ telling you she'll do as you like, you will date her?



He just wants a mind reader who can also implant ideas. What, you think that's too much to ask for?

Me? I'm still hoping for that magic lasso.


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## Fascinita (Jan 22, 2008)

Jane said:


> Me? I'm still hoping for that magic lasso.



And an invisible plane, so you can whisk him away to your island?


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## Jane (Jan 22, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> And an invisible plane, so you can whisk him away to your island?



No, just looking for that truth thing.


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## Fascinita (Jan 22, 2008)

Jane said:


> No, just looking for that truth thing.



Oh, lol  See where my mind is? The lasso is definitely for truth-wresting. Where I was thinking of kidnapping love slaves and taking them to secluded islands.


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## Jane (Jan 22, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Oh, lol  See where my mind is? The lasso is definitely for truth-wresting. Where I was thinking of kidnapping love slaves and taking them to secluded islands.



Okay, I have to admit, that's not entirely ruled out. Or, make them dig up a flower bed for me.


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## Fascinita (Jan 22, 2008)

Jane said:


> Okay, I have to admit, that's not entirely ruled out. Or, make them dig up a flower bed for me.



Don't forget to make them bring you some icy margaritas while you wait for the digging to get done.


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## ZainTheInsane (Jan 22, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> SO if she does as you like, you won't dump her? If she does as you like by _not_ telling you she'll do as you like, you will date her?



haha, not exactly 

Gotta take the rant as a whole, and not break it down into the individual parts.


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## Jes (Jan 22, 2008)

prettysteve said:


> Miss Green Eyes: There is nothing wrong with a little foot fetish as long you don't have any toe jam or foot fungus problems.Besides there is nothing like a woman's soft sexy clean feet in the mouth to turn a man on.Ouch! I think I just spit out a toenail!:eat2:






what?



pants.


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## Tad (Jan 22, 2008)

First, I read "little people" the same way that Butch did. It all made perfect sense.... :doh:

Second:



superodalisque said:


> i had a discussion with some "little people" last night. they posed an interesting question. Do you think that BBWs ever accept FETISH LIKE behaviors in their men because deep inside they really feel that they look like a "freak" so that only another "freak" could possibly like them?





ZainTheInsane said:


> Seriously, I find it incredibly irritating when I tell a girl about something I happen to like, and instead of stating whether she likes it or not, she spews some line of crap about how she would do it because I like it.
> 
> That's just garbage, and makes me want to dump said girl instantly if I'm dating her, and if I'm interested in dating her, I'll lose interest at that point.
> 
> ...



I thought those two posts made an interesting question and response.

Third, I'm sure that there are some BBW who do put up with what they consider freaky because of low self-esteem. I can certainly see some feeling that better a freak who loves you than somebody who treats you like a freak, abuses you, etc, or being alone. But I doubt that is the common case. On the other hand, do a lot of BBW tolerate some of the eroticizing of their fat from FA? I'm sure there is a fair amount of tolerating going on (not saying all). 

Fourth, and this touches back to Zain's post, some people get off on pleasing their partner. Well, I think most people do to at least some extent, but I think for some people a really strong portion of their erotic nature is tied up in turning on their partner. So I suspect that in at least some cases BBW* do things to please FA or feeders not from low self-esteem or because they get turned on by it themselves, but because they honestly like doing what turns on their partner.

* not saying that only BBW are this way, it can be men or women of all stripes. Just talking BBW to stay on topic.


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## ZainTheInsane (Jan 23, 2008)

edx said:


> Fourth, and this touches back to Zain's post, some people get off on pleasing their partner. Well, I think most people do to at least some extent, but I think for some people a really strong portion of their erotic nature is tied up in turning on their partner. So I suspect that in at least some cases BBW* do things to please FA or feeders not from low self-esteem or because they get turned on by it themselves, but because they honestly like doing what turns on their partner.
> 
> * not saying that only BBW are this way, it can be men or women of all stripes. Just talking BBW to stay on topic.



In my mind that isn't necessarily the same thing...when someone has a desire to please their partner, that's fine and all...but whether or not it turns them on isn't so important to me, or when I was making my rant, as the concept that they don't feel that HAVE to please their significant other...or that they NEED to please their significant other.

I thinking wanting to please that person for some degree of self-satisfaction is more appealing than needing to please because of a lack of self-esteem, motivation, confidence, or whatever else it may be. 

But what I meant by my rant...or tried to convey is that it is important to me, and I'm sure to others as well, that the woman isn't doing something she doesn't enjoy herself. I think it's better to have someone who is indifferent to, or enjoys the 'freaky/kinky/weird' thing I do, than to have said person do it because I like it, while they do not.

As for mind-reading...I communicate all my desires, likes, preferences, and fetishes to my partner, and I have tried to make sure everything is known, and the degree to which it is important (or unimportant) is known as well.

Because nothing is worse than doing something various times only to find out your partner doesn't enjoy it at all. Especially if you do. 

That's my opinion anyway...


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## Judge_Dre (Jan 23, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i meant people who are thin. sorry, that was a bit idiosyncratic..



LOL, so many of us thought you meant dwarfs! It all seemed to make sense with the name of the thread and the topic of fetishes. "Little people" is PC term for dwarfs. Personally, If I was a dwarf I would hate to be called a little person. Sounds too cutesy.

This is weird, but even though I love big women, I have a crush on Bridget the Midget. I dunno, she just does something for me :wubu: 

View attachment bridget.jpg


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## butch (Jan 23, 2008)

I've always thought Peter Dinklage is hot. 

View attachment pd.jpg


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## SparklingBBW (Jan 23, 2008)

butch said:


> I've always thought Peter Dinklage is hot.



Me too! If he's the guy that was in that "Train" movie. I think he was also in that little people movie where Gary Oldman played a little person who was Matthew McConahes (however you spell it) brother...very surreal, didn't realize that was Gary Oldman until the end...and Peter Dinklage played a French-Canadian little person...and you know I go ga-ga over the French accent. :wubu:

What is it about the little people that make them so interesting to me. Of course all kinds of people interest me, but I do love the Roloffs and their show. Maybe because I can relate to their struggles as well? Not fitting into the world...having specialized conventions/organizations to meet other understanding/accepting people. I also thought the OP was talking about these little people. 

End of ramble...


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jan 23, 2008)

edx said:


> some people get off on pleasing their partner. Well, I think most people do to at least some extent, but I think for some people a really strong portion of their erotic nature is tied up in turning on their partner. So I suspect that in at least some cases BBW* do things to please FA or feeders not from low self-esteem or because they get turned on by it themselves, but because they honestly like doing what turns on their partner.




I tend to think that I am a "people pleaser" by nature. I'm also one of those "need to be needed" people. Funny thing that I realized recently at work is that one of the nicest people there is like this.......she wants to "fix" or "save" me I think. I find it amusing on some level but also appreciate her concern. I don't take the "fix" or "save" part badly or personally...probably because I understand her better than some 


And yes, the majority of my erotic nature is in pleasing my partner. I can't orgasm without that feeling. :blush:


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## Tad (Jan 24, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I tend to think that I am a "people pleaser" by nature. I'm also one of those "need to be needed" people. Funny thing that I realized recently at work is that one of the nicest people there is like this.......she wants to "fix" or "save" me I think. I find it amusing on some level but also appreciate her concern. I don't take the "fix" or "save" part badly or personally...probably because I understand her better than some
> 
> 
> And yes, the majority of my erotic nature is in pleasing my partner. I can't orgasm without that feeling. :blush:



I forgot to mention in my original post: I'm a fair bit this way myself. Not extreme, it isn't my only erotic hot button by a long shot, but no matter what else, if my partner isn't mighty happy, it makes it a lot less enjoyable for me. I feel sometimes that there must be some sort of pheremone circuit or something, I don't know.


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## superodalisque (Jan 24, 2008)

Judge_Dre said:


> LOL, so many of us thought you meant dwarfs! It all seemed to make sense with the name of the thread and the topic of fetishes. "Little people" is PC term for dwarfs. Personally, If I was a dwarf I would hate to be called a little person. Sounds too cutesy.
> 
> This is weird, but even though I love big women, I have a crush on Bridget the Midget. I dunno, she just does something for me :wubu:




she's cute! no wonder you had a crush on her! i went out with a guy once who was borderline little person. he was really sexy actually. i didn't have a problem with him being short but he did. i found that to be a real turn off since he was intelligent sweet and attractive. it taught me a little about how FAs must feel at times i tell ya.


its really sad this question of BBWs feeling freakish and really believing that the FAs who adore them are freaks too. i just wanted to lay it right out there. thank goodness its not everybody. it ties into my thinkiing about why it is that there is so much worry among bbws about dating non -FAs. a lot really do believe that no one would be attracted to them except a specialist. but i don't compare all of those women with women who really believe ther fat and their FAs are freakish. i was just thinking about stuff


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## GWARrior (Jan 24, 2008)

butch said:


> I've always thought Peter Dinklage is hot.



same here. hes a great actor as well.


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## stan_der_man (Jan 24, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> ...
> its really sad this question of BBWs feeling freakish and really believing that the FAs who adore them are freaks too. i just wanted to lay it right out there. thank goodness its not everybody. it ties into my thinkiing about why it is that there is so much worry among bbws about dating non -FAs. a lot really do believe that no one would be attracted to them except a specialist. but i don't compare all of those women with women who really believe ther fat and their FAs are freakish. i was just thinking about stuff



This is an interesting subject Superodalisque. I think there will always be a "novelty factor" regarding people of sizes that are much larger or much smaller than average. I don't think "average" people necessarily intend to be rude (although often times they can be callous), like when they stare at very small people or very large people, I think much of it is simple curiosity at seeing something uncommon. The makings of "freakishness" I think is a lack of understanding for these people. Extreme shortness used to be (and still is, but I think less so...) considered a birth defect. "Dwarfism" was something considered so bad that people who had this "defect" were even discouraged from reproducing. I don't need to tell you all the stereotypes and misconceptions that "average" people have of fat people and FAs.

As for the "freaks" always getting paired together... I think it's sort of like the group of kids that always get picked on, or chosen last for playing sports. Being the outcasts they tend to get to know each other after a while. Always being left out of things they eventually will hang out with each other. The fat girls get rejected by the "average" guys, the short or skinny guys are shunned by the "average" girls, the result is that the fat girls and short / skinny guys are left out will tend to group together. Then of course the novelty factor kicks in... really fat girl pairs up with really skinny / short boy, people stare.

I think shows like "Little People, Big World" help to make short people better understood, and help mainstream the idea that being very short isn't something terrible or freakish. Maybe trying to have fat people and FAs better understood by the general public would also be a step in the direction of having us more accepted, and create a sense of normalcy with our existence, and minimize the "freak factor" that always hangs over us. Maybe having us (FAs and fat people) better understand each other would be a good thing too.

I really think that mainstreaming fat acceptance, having FAs and fat people better understood and shown in a positive way is the most important thing facing the size acceptance community (I know.. I sound like a broken record...) It almost certainly would minimize the "freak factor" that hangs over our heads.


freak_factor_man_stan


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## superodalisque (Jan 24, 2008)

fa_man_stan said:


> I don't think "average" people necessarily intend to be rude (although often times they can be callous), like when they stare at very small people or very large people, I think much of it is simple curiosity at seeing something uncommon. The makings of "freakishness" I think is a lack of understanding for these people. I don't need to tell you all the stereotypes and misconceptions that "average" people have of fat people and FAs.
> 
> I really think that mainstreaming fat acceptance, having FAs and fat people better understood and shown in a positive way is the most important thing facing the size acceptance community (I know.. I sound like a broken record...) It almost certainly would minimize the "freak factor" that hangs over our heads.
> 
> ...




me too. thats why i advocate making the push out there. date, have a lot of friends, talk, create exposure outside of our comfort zones. that could keep us from feeling freakish. i mean, if we're afraid to put on a swimsuit, for instance, and enjoy ourselves aren't we confirming to the general public that something is wrong with us and that they are right to feel that we are freaks? 

i agree that for the most part a lot of the staring is due to unfamiliarity. people are really curious about what fat women are like naked. we definitely hide in general. they know we have all of the same stuff that other women have--just a lot more of it. 

i encourage open discussions about fat in some of my classes--art classes. most of my students know that i model nude for other artists. most of them are heavily male. a lot of the young men have admitted that they have always been very curious, sexually and otherwise. its just that society frowns on that curiosity. 

one student brought me a clip of the documentary dawn frenchn large women, i think its called . in the clip there is an editor of GQ UK and 2 junior editors talking about a photo of dawn french. its a very sexy photo of her draped in gauze. she isn't nude but its definitely body conscious. the senior editor who is female and slim asks what the junior editors, two young males, think. they are very quick to say that its a beautiful photo and they are curious about what she looked like underneath the gauze. it was obvious that they found her sexually appealing. but the senior editor led them in the conversation. she said that it was a nice photo and would look nice in the magazine but basically she was sure they wouldn't approach a big woman like dawn french on the street. embarrased, they quickly agreed.

the problem seems to be that people who don't like us are always out there trying to speak for us and our admirers and potential admirers to try and make us feel freakish. hence closet FAs and bbws with low self esteem. usually its people who have something to lose. its generally women who are afraid of the competition. believe me, women notice where men's eyes go. a confident big woman is very noticeable. 

also there are a few men who really have a problem with fat women. i think for some men it really threatens their masculinity when they think they couldn't physically control a woman. a fat woman doesn't make it look easy to carry her off. she can also be a threat to their sexuality. she represents a kind of impotence. she is a woman he is very afraid that he can't satisfy. to top it all off she is huge so maybe he feels a bit childish next to her. i can understand why for some men all of that could be really disturbing. its like the image of a child who can't satisfy his mother--very scary stuff. i wonder what freud has to say about that. 

also for some people fat is a mirror of apparent lack of self control that they acknowledge in themselves. we live in a culture that revered self denial for a long time so a fat person's perceived greediness would seem disgusting in a situation like that. its the puritian ethic run amuck. maybe part of the reason that things have eased a bit is due to the fact that the attractiveness of self denial has diminished to some extent. so maybe if we get out there and show everyone that your life isn't over just because your fat we can make more inroads. and maybe we can teach little girls that its ok to be small or big and not try to totally erase themselves from existence by engaging in dangerous dieting trends.


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## Judge_Dre (Jan 24, 2008)

I actually saw Peter Dinklage in person once. A friend of mine was in a play and I went to go see him perform. Peter Dinklage was in the audience. His date was short, but not a dwarf. I say she was around 5'2'' and rather cute. After the play was over I saw them outside the theater making out. They seemed real happy with each other.


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