# No Christmas banner for you!



## Webmaster (Dec 15, 2010)

This isn't size-related, but in a small sense it is because we use Amazon banners to help paying the rather steep monthly bill for the Dimensions server. So I wanted to put up a Christmas banner.

Well, Amazon doesn't have one. They have banners for absolutely everything, including Earth Day, Halloween, Valentine's Day, New Year, but not Christmas. So I had to resort to the generic "Holiday" banner you see above, the one that still mentions Black Friday.

So I inquired/complained with Amazon. The first reply was the usual canned non-reply, directing me to the page with all the banners, which, of course, I already knew. So I replied that, no, this was not helpful. 

I get another reply, and this one from a real person. It said, 

_"It looks as if we'll just have Holiday banners this season, rather than specific links for Christmas, Kwanzaa, Hanukkah, etc. Please accept our apologies if you were offended by the use of the word "holiday" (instead of "Christmas") on our website. Our intent is to be as inclusive and respectful as possible at a time of year when people of many faiths celebrate important holidays. I'm sorry if our selection doesn't suit the needs of your site._"

So basically, Amazon's position is to not as much as mention Christmas, in a nation where about 80% list Christianity as their religious preference, and where just about everyone celebrates Christmas in some way (Christmas is actually celebrated in most parts of the world in some way). But the argument seems to be that we need to be completely and totally inclusive, and if there aren't banners for every holiday in some other religion, then there must not be one for Christmas either.

Well, fine. And I am far from a religious zealot. But I am really sick of the "Happy Holidays" crap just so that we don't have to mention "Christmas' and potentially offend someone. And while we're all guilted into spending billions for Christmas, ummm.., HOLIDAY gifts, actually mentioning Christmas is a no-no. Good Grief. That's just not right.


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## RVGleason (Dec 15, 2010)

I quite agree with you, Conrad. It's one of the reasons I hate political correctness, which as far as I'm concerned, is nothing more than censorship of ideas that a particular group consider 'un-pc'. How tolerant! I proudly wear the button pictured. (If you want to get a button for yourself, look up their website). 

I wish you and everyone here a very *Merry Christmas!* 

RV :eat1: 

View attachment 41573_7382273599_5189010_n.jpg


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 15, 2010)

Webmaster said:


> But the argument seems to be that we need to be completely and totally inclusive...


and this is bad because...? 
i'm pretty sure that 100% of DIMmers don't all celebrate the same holiday.

not everyone celebrates the same holiday, some don't even celebrate any.
the messages of "Happy Holidays" and "Season's Greetings" are perfectly harmless, can apply to everyone, and are actually quite nice. they're arguably better than saying "HEY IT'S WINTERTIME."


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## DearPrudence (Dec 15, 2010)

disconnectedsmile said:


> and this is bad because...?
> i'm pretty sure that 100% of DIMmers don't all celebrate the same holiday.
> 
> not everyone celebrates the same holiday, some don't even celebrate any.
> the messages of "Happy Holidays" and "Season's Greetings" are perfectly harmless, can apply to everyone, and are actually quite nice. they're arguably better than saying "HEY IT'S WINTERTIME."



I agree. Yeah, there may be a certain percentage of people who celebrate a certain holiday, but our country was founded on the separation of church and state, and yadda yadda, you get the idea. I like the Holiday thing, it keeps most of the population unalienated and unoffended, which leads to less bitching. And, as we all know, less bitching = a better holiday season.


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## mossystate (Dec 15, 2010)

Good for Amazon. Not sure how it is " PC " ( what a tired complaint that is ) for a business to understand that this season contains a number of celebrations. 

People _do_ realize that Amazon is not taking anything away from anybody...right? Saying Happy Holidays is something that makes me feel like I have that brother/sisterhood of humankind heart pumping in my chest ( oops!!!, guess I was too PC! ).

I still say Merry Christmas when I know that the person I am talking to celebrates, in some way, that holiday. Seems that most people who get upset about this issue still have plenty of folks wishing them ______ _________...right? 


I agree with disconnected. It's just plain nice to give a nod to others around you who also want to feel the warmth. It's kind of the point...I think?


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## agouderia (Dec 15, 2010)

Always believing that old Europe still is much less Holiday-PC, where it's taken forgranted that it's okay to say "Merry Christmas" if a holiday is celebrated by +80% of the population in one way or the other, this posting piqued my curiosity to look into the Amazon outlets in Europe and how they handle the issue with the banners.

Most interesting findings:
amazon.co.uk shamelessly advertises Christmas
amazon.it has Natale running over half the page
amazon.fr is very clear about their order policy for Noël
and ironically 
amazon.de has only a tiny reference to "Fest" (holiday) in the upper right-hand corner, no mention of Christmas or any major holiday at all, it's all about saving and sales. And this even though saying "Frohe/Fröhliche Weihnachten" in germanophone Europe still is pretty common and socially accepted than the generic "Schöne Feiertage" (happy holidays).

I wonder what is behind these diverging Amazon policies in the various countries, especially since they make no sense in so far as France and Britain have much larger non-Christian religious minorities than for instance Germany does.

So ... in this line ... Merry Christmas! Frohe Weihnachten! Joyeux Noël! Buon Natale!


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 15, 2010)

mossystate said:


> People _do_ realize that Amazon is not taking anything away from anybody...right?


i guess not.



DearPrudence said:


> I like the Holiday thing, it keeps most of the population unalienated and unoffended, which leads to less bitching. And, as we all know, less bitching = a better holiday season.


i think this perfectly sums up why "Happy Holidays" is better than "Merry ____" or "Happy ____."


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## Fat Brian (Dec 15, 2010)

I grew up in and still participate in a religion that does not celebrate Christmas. I have never once been offended by any holiday that I am not a part of. I knew then and know now that I am in the minority and thats okay. I have never begrudged the majority their right to celebrate as the see fit since I have never been prevented from observing, in my chosen way, the days and times that I believe are important. I have never understood why other groups see fit to try poop on the vast majorities parade. I have been wished "Merry Christmas" more times than I can count and have yet to burst into flames and doubt I will any time soon. Thats part of being a minority, there just aren't enough of you to get your way all of time, but last time I checked no was being kidnapped off the street and forced to attend midnight mass somewhere.


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## mossystate (Dec 15, 2010)

Just like nobody is forcing anybody to go to midnight Mass ( oh how I loved midnight Mass ), nobody is telling anybody else they can't go. Like I said, I think that some...some...people really do just want to gather up as many people as possible and, as a group, feel more connected in a way. Then I think the individual celebrations and beliefs can become actually more beautiful and special...and those who are looking in from the outside can appreciate.

I mean, this all started talking about a huge company that sells lots of...stuff. Is lots of stuff what most of these holidays are really all about? Might be a good argument from one side to not want their holiday be used like that and a good thing to use a more generic greeting?


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## luscious_lulu (Dec 15, 2010)

Why would you be offended by Happy Holidays? 

Christmas was originally a pagan holiday to celebrate the winter solstice. Christians adopted the holiday to celebrate the birth of Jesus, whom they believe was actually born in the summer.


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## gangstadawg (Dec 15, 2010)

luscious_lulu said:


> Why would you be offended by Happy Holidays?
> 
> Christmas was originally a pagan holiday to celebrate the winter solstice. Christians adopted the holiday to celebrate the birth of Jesus, whom they believe was actually born in the summer.



you would be surprised by what people get offended by. some people are rational others are irrational and others are just stupid. hell there are people that get offended when you say hi or hello.


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## graphicsgal (Dec 15, 2010)

This kind of reminds me of the HR email joke that is passed around this time of year.


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## Webmaster (Dec 15, 2010)

mossystate said:


> I mean, this all started talking about a huge company that sells lots of...stuff. Is lots of stuff what most of these holidays are really all about? Might be a good argument from one side to not want their holiday be used like that and a good thing to use a more generic greeting?



Generic is all good and well, but just like as a society we're going out of our way to respect everyone's heritage and culture, I would really like mine (and that of the great majority of all Americans) respected, too, and so I'd like to be able to have a Christmas banner. Not Happy Holidays. Christmas.

Else, if we've become this politically correct, we might as well yank all the department store santas, and go on a nationwide campaign to rename Santa Claus, who represents Christmas to children, as Mr. Holidayman, or perhaps Holydayperson. And Easter should become ChocolateBunnyGiving Day.

I am certainly not offended by Happy Holidays. But I am offended by banners celebrating only Black Friday and Cyber Monday and giftgiving and spending, and then telling me the very reason for all that pressure to spend billions, Christmas, is too politically incorrect to even mention, not even as an available option for those who want to use it.


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## Seth Warren (Dec 15, 2010)

You do realise that you have to be touching the Festivus pole for the airing of grievances, right? Or does that happen during dinner? I forget...feel free to air your grievances about my poor memory.

Anyway, who is going to be the first to take on Conrad during the Feats of Strength? Not it!


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## mossystate (Dec 15, 2010)

Webmaster said:


> Generic is all good and well, but just like as a society we're going out of our way to respect everyone's heritage and culture, I would really like mine (and that of the great majority of all Americans) respected, too, and so I'd like to be able to have a Christmas banner. Not Happy Holidays. Christmas.
> 
> Else, if we've become this politically correct, we might as well yank all the department store santas, and go on a nationwide campaign to rename Santa Claus, who represents Christmas to children, as Mr. Holidayman, or perhaps Holydayperson. And Easter should become ChocolateBunnyGiving Day.
> 
> I am certainly not offended by Happy Holidays. But I am offended by banners celebrating only Black Friday and Cyber Monday and giftgiving and spending, and then telling me the very reason for all that pressure to spend billions, Christmas, is too politically incorrect to even mention, not even as an available option for those who want to use it.



Well, the renaming suggestion seems a bit hysterical. Nobody is calling for the axing of the particular players and beliefs of individual celebrations.

As for the banner fly in the ointment...I guess the only real option you have is to just get rid of the whole thing. Protest with your pocketbook, and maybe suggest others do the same.


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 15, 2010)

Webmaster said:


> Else, if we've become this politically correct, we might as well yank all the department store santas, and go on a nationwide campaign to rename Santa Claus, who represents Christmas to children, as Mr. Holidayman, or perhaps Holydayperson.


i saw this on The Simpsons. in Japan they call Santa "Annual Gift Man," and he lives on the moon.








Seth Warren said:


> You do realise that you have to be touching the Festivus pole for the airing of grievances, right? Or does that happen during dinner? I forget...feel free to air your grievances about my poor memory.


Seth, i am vastly disappointed in your lack of respect for Festivus tradition.
the Airing of Grievances always takes place at the dinner table.


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## Fat Brian (Dec 15, 2010)

Inclusion means including everyone, even the majority. Too often people seeking inclusion only want to BE included, and are not well suited at being inclusive themselves. I, along with many others like me, don't have ANY holiday to celebrate this time of year, so even "Happy Holidays" doesn't suit our situation. If I was inclined to be upset about such things I could make a strong case that even a generic holiday greeting is inappropriate.


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## bigsexy920 (Dec 15, 2010)

I wish i had read this before I ordered from Amazon. I won't be anymore. 

If you dont want to offend anyone then have multiple options for all holidays.


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## D_A_Bunny (Dec 15, 2010)

I personally have no problem whatsoever with the use of Happy Holidays because for me 1) it includes anyone who wants to be included and 2) can be said during the entire time of the holiday season. 

I specifically say Merry Christmas to those whom I know celebrate Christmas and/or I spend the actual holiday with, either Eve or Day. 

It isn't Christmas until later in the month. Why would anyone say Merry Christmas to anyone else right now anyway?

Not to turn this into a HP subject but, why do so many people question a retailer's use of terms when all they want to do is make you buy stuff. That is not the purpose of actual CHRISTmas anyway, so it really should'nt make a difference.

The only time I would have a problem with it is if I went to a Christian church celebrating the Holy Mass and they did not say Merry Christmas. (which as mentioned by a previous poster is actually timed incorrectly because Jesus was born in the late summer and the original Christians took over the pagan Winter solstice traditions. BTW - Coca Cola made Santa Claus into the star he is today, to sell more soda.)


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## Shosh (Dec 15, 2010)

Webmaster said:


> Generic is all good and well, but just like as a society we're going out of our way to respect everyone's heritage and culture, I would really like mine (and that of the great majority of all Americans) respected, too, and so I'd like to be able to have a Christmas banner. Not Happy Holidays. Christmas.
> 
> Else, if we've become this politically correct, we might as well yank all the department store santas, and go on a nationwide campaign to rename Santa Claus, who represents Christmas to children, as Mr. Holidayman, or perhaps Holydayperson. And Easter should become ChocolateBunnyGiving Day.
> 
> I am certainly not offended by Happy Holidays. But I am offended by banners celebrating only Black Friday and Cyber Monday and giftgiving and spending, and then telling me the very reason for all that pressure to spend billions, Christmas, is too politically incorrect to even mention, not even as an available option for those who want to use it.



The PC police here tried to ban the singing of Christmas carols in pre schools and schools here.
The Jewish community here actually opposed that and supported the right of Christians to retain their traditions, and their rights to sing carols and observe the holiday as they please.
As a Jew I am proud of that.
The newly elected Premier ( Governor) here has stepped in and said there will be no ban on the singing of carols.
It is generally the Muslim community that squaks the loudest about it also.
I am sorry but you cannot come to this country and then try to dictate to the majority of the population how they will observe their religious and holiday traditions.
If you do not like it, you do not have to live here.


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## bigsexy920 (Dec 15, 2010)

Im not saying there is anything wrong with saying it . Im just saying its wrong to not have the option to be able to put it up on a banner if you want to.


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## mossystate (Dec 15, 2010)

D_A_Bunny said:


> Not to turn this into a HP subject ( snip )



That ship has sailed.

And, yes to the rest of your post. 

Now, I have to go place an Amazon order for 2 - 5 pound bags of gummi bears, and a railroad crossing light. Free shipping!


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## Webmaster (Dec 15, 2010)

mossystate said:


> Now, I have to go place an Amazon order for 2 - 5 pound bags of gummi bears, and a railroad crossing light. Free shipping!



Now there's the spirit.


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## mossystate (Dec 15, 2010)

Happy Holidays!


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## luscious_lulu (Dec 15, 2010)

bigsexy920 said:


> Im not saying there is anything wrong with saying it . Im just saying its wrong to not have the option to be able to put it up on a banner if you want to.





But it's THEIR business and they have the right to represent it the way they choose to.


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## BBW MeganLynn44DD (Dec 15, 2010)

If I know someone is not Christian I will not wish them Merry Christmas.I normally say Merry Christmas and see nothing wrong with it.People need to get over themselves!


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## PeanutButterfly (Dec 15, 2010)

I say Merry Christmas to everyone unless I know specifically you're not Christian. Even then I still may wish you a Merry Christmas because why shouldn't your December 25th be shiny and happy? I don't get offended when my Indian friends send me "Happy Duali Day" emails nor when my Jewis friends wish me a Happy Yom Kippur. It just means have a happy October 11th or whichever day each holiday falls. I have no problem with Happy Holidays. I think it's a wonderful thing to say too but I just happen to like Merry Christmas better after December 15th and Hannukah is officially over. ( I know it doesnt always end on December 15th but whenever its over for that particular season)

I am suprised that Amazon doesn't offer a Merry Christmas banner. Even though it says Holiday its still in green and red. Why not just put the word "Christmas" on there? Or make the banner colors blue if Christmas is so offensive? It makes no sense to me. A couple of years ago, maybe 2 or 3 now, I noticed big retailers like Target and Walmart began selling "holiday" ornaments instead of Christmas ornaments. Thats the only time the word "holiday" reall bugged me. Why was it such a big deal to call them "Christmas Ornaments"? Obviously only those who celebrate Christmas would be purchasing them. I believe I wasn't the only one who was annoyed by this and in recent years I've noticed items have returned to their "Christmas" status.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Dec 15, 2010)

PeanutButterfly said:


> A couple of years ago, maybe 2 or 3 now, I noticed big retailers like Target and Walmart began selling "holiday" ornaments instead of Christmas ornaments. Thats the only time the word "holiday" reall bugged me. Why was it such a big deal to call them "Christmas Ornaments"? Obviously only those who celebrate Christmas would be purchasing them.



Obvious, perhaps, but nevertheless untrue. When I lived in New York City, some of my Jewish neighbors put up "Hanukkah bushes."


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## PeanutButterfly (Dec 15, 2010)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Obvious, perhaps, but nevertheless untrue. When I lived in New York City, some of my Jewish neighbors put up "Hanukkah bushes."



haha tousche. I've never heard of a Hannukah bush but if theres a market for Hannukah ornanments I'm not opposed to calling them Hannukah ornaments, nor if I saw a nice one would I hesitate to buy it because it's called a Hannukah Ornament. Why can't we just call things what they are without worrying we're going to offend someone? Sometimes our society is so PC it drives me nuts.


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## Ho Ho Tai (Dec 16, 2010)

At age 73, I've pretty much given up being anything but a wanderer full of wonder at this marvelous universe I find myself in. I'm not a Christian, not an agnostic, perhaps a bit of pagan, maybe still a searching agnostic - but I search less and appreciate more as I grow older.

My feelings about Christmas, 'Merry Christmas' and all the trappings are nicely summed up in the words of Scrooge's nephew, in the following excerpt from Dicken's Christmas Carol.

"The door of Scrooge's counting-house was open that he might keep his eye upon his clerk, who in a dismal little cell beyond, a sort of tank, was copying letters. Scrooge had a very small fire, but the clerk's fire was so very much smaller that it looked like one coal. But he couldn't replenish it, for Scrooge kept the coal-box in his own room; and so surely as the clerk came in with the shovel, the master predicted that it would be necessary for them to part. Wherefore the clerk put on his white comforter, and tried to warm himself at the candle; in which effort, not being a man of a strong imagination, he failed.

"A merry Christmas, uncle! God save you!" cried a cheerful voice. It was the voice of Scrooge's nephew, who came upon him so quickly that this was the first intimation he had of his approach.

"Bah!" said Scrooge, "Humbug!"

He had so heated himself with rapid walking in the fog and frost, this nephew of Scrooge's, that he was all in a glow; his face was ruddy and handsome; his eyes sparkled, and his breath smoked again.

"Christmas a humbug, uncle!" said Scrooge's nephew. "You don't mean that, I am sure."

"I do," said Scrooge. "Merry Christmas! What right have you to be merry? What reason have you to be merry? You're poor enough."

"Come, then," returned the nephew gaily. "What right have you to be dismal? What reason have you to be morose? You're rich enough."

Scrooge having no better answer ready on the spur of the moment, said "Bah!" again; and followed it up with "Humbug."

"Don't be cross, uncle!" said the nephew.

"What else can I be," returned the uncle, "when I live in such a world of fools as this? Merry Christmas! Out upon merry Christmas! What's Christmas time to you but a time for paying bills without money; a time for finding yourself a year older, but not an hour richer; a time for balancing your books and having every item in 'em through a round dozen of months presented dead against you? If I could work my will," said Scrooge indignantly, "every idiot who goes about with 'Merry Christmas' on his lips, should be boiled with his own pudding, and buried with a stake of holly through his heart. He should!"

"Uncle!" pleaded the nephew.

"Nephew!" returned the uncle, sternly, "keep Christmas in your own way, and let me keep it in mine."

"Keep it!" repeated Scrooge's nephew. "But you don't keep it."

"Let me leave it alone, then," said Scrooge. "Much good may it do you! Much good it has ever done you!"

"There are many things from which I might have derived good, by which I have not profited, I dare say," returned the nephew. "Christmas among the rest.  But I am sure I have always thought of Christmas time, when it has come round -- apart from the veneration due to its sacred name and origin, if anything belonging to it can be apart from that -- as a good time: a kind, forgiving, charitable, pleasant time: the only time I know of, in the long calendar of the year, when men and women seem by one consent to open their shut-up hearts freely, and to think of people below them as if they really were fellow-passengers to the grave, and not another race of creatures bound on other journeys. And therefore, uncle, though it has never put a scrap of gold or silver in my pocket, I believe that it has done me good, and will do me good; and I say, God bless it!"

The clerk in the tank involuntarily applauded: becoming immediately sensible of the impropriety, he poked the fire, and extinguished the last frail spark for ever.

"Let me hear another sound from you," said Scrooge, "and you'll keep your Christmas by losing your situation. You're quite a powerful speaker, sir," he added, turning to his nephew. "I wonder you don't go into Parliament."


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 16, 2010)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Obvious, perhaps, but nevertheless untrue. When I lived in New York City, some of my Jewish neighbors put up "Hanukkah bushes."



i don't know what a hanukkah bush is, but it sounds sexy!


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## Bagalute (Dec 16, 2010)

Why would you expect a website like Amazon to represent any kinds of values? Or grow a pair of balls for that matter? 

If you appreciate the irony get this as a christmas present: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B004EEOLIU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

btw: You can pay with either Visa or Mastercard :doh:


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## LovelyLiz (Dec 16, 2010)

The initial point of Christmas, which is a Christian holiday as everyone in this thread seems to be acknowledging, was to celebrate the birth of Jesus. 

I think Jesus probably wouldn't insist on his own way, and run around adamantly saying Merry Christmas to everyone. But saying that "Christmas" is just about family/friends, togetherness, merriment, the "spirit of giving", and good will toward all...as so many people say these days, is just not true. Or if it is true, then everyone should be able to say it to everyone, because it's not actually a religious holiday. Who is against merriment, after all? 

So people need to make up their minds. Either we acknowledge Christmas as a specifically Christian holiday to celebrate the coming of Jesus into the world (and yes, the celebration was initially timed to make use of the winter solstice celebrations already happening); or it's a holiday about a bunch of secular feel-goodery, and if the latter, I don't see why people can't just celebrate it all together. There's very little distinctively "Christian" about how people celebrate Christmas anymore, in much of the U.S. anyway. 

It's like there's a religious holiday "Christmas" and a commercial holiday "Christmas." Why can't people wish everyone, whatever their background, "Merry Commercial Christmas"?   Amazon is very much in favor of Commercial Christmas, however (and that offends me!).


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## VickiNicole (Dec 16, 2010)

I'm Muslim (heading toward agnosticsm, but thats a whole other topic)
I don't celebrate Christmas, but I'm not offended by it either
I do have relatives who are "annoyed" by Christmas stuff everywhere, but I could care less.
I say let everyone celebrate their holidays, how is it messing with you?
If we want to celebrate "Eid" (the muslim holiday after Ramadhan) we should do that too.

I'm not offended. I do understand wanting to include as many people as possible, but I don't think it's offensive to say Merry Christmas /OR/ Happy Holidays


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## Kahn_Assuar (Dec 16, 2010)

80% of men prefer skinny women, but I don't see any pictures of skinny women posted here.


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## bigsexy920 (Dec 16, 2010)

Thats 100% true and I as a consumer can choose who I purchase from. 



luscious_lulu said:


> But it's THEIR business and they have the right to represent it the way they choose to.


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## luscious_lulu (Dec 16, 2010)

bigsexy920 said:


> Thats 100% true and I as a consumer can choose who I purchase from.



Also true, but imagine someone telling you how you should advertise your bash. Or someone telling Conrad how to market his website


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## toni (Dec 16, 2010)

Webmaster said:


> Generic is all good and well, but just like as a society we're going out of our way to respect everyone's heritage and culture, I would really like mine (and that of the great majority of all Americans) respected, too, and so I'd like to be able to have a Christmas banner. Not Happy Holidays. Christmas.
> 
> Else, if we've become this politically correct, we might as well yank all the department store santas, and go on a nationwide campaign to rename Santa Claus, who represents Christmas to children, as Mr. Holidayman, or perhaps Holydayperson. And Easter should become ChocolateBunnyGiving Day.
> 
> I am certainly not offended by Happy Holidays. But I am offended by banners celebrating only Black Friday and Cyber Monday and giftgiving and spending, and then telling me the very reason for all that pressure to spend billions, Christmas, is too politically incorrect to even mention, not even as an available option for those who want to use it.



I totally agree with you, Conrad. The contradiction is very upsetting. Since 80% of the country is Christian, 80% of the billions of dollars being pumped into the economy is for Christmas. We should be allowed to use the word Christmas. PERIOD. 

Pagan holiday     
What is your point? SO is Halloween. We don't get PC about that, do we?


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## toni (Dec 16, 2010)

luscious_lulu said:


> Also true, but imagine someone telling you how you should advertise your bash. Or someone telling Conrad how to market his website



If you are not accomodating the people you are directly marketing. Seems like a problem, no?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 16, 2010)

Kahn_Assuar said:


> 80% of men prefer skinny women, but I don't see any pictures of skinny women posted here.



pretty awesome first post right here.


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## CastingPearls (Dec 16, 2010)

Kahn_Assuar said:


> 80% of men prefer skinny women, but I don't see any pictures of skinny women posted here.





disconnectedsmile said:


> pretty awesome first post right here.



There are plenty of pics of thin women on the BHM/FFA boards. Just because you haven't found them doesn't mean they aren't here.


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 16, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> There are plenty of pics of thin women on the BHM/FFA boards. Just because you haven't found them doesn't mean they aren't here.



ALALALALALALA


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## Lovelyone (Dec 16, 2010)

Kahn_Assuar said:


> 80% of men prefer skinny women, but I don't see any pictures of skinny women posted here.


 
This is exactly the point that most people are trying to make on this thread. This website isn't designed and marketed for the 80% of the population who doesn't like big women. It is designed and marketed to the 20% who do. I don't recall anyone insisting that they demand Amazon to change and allow for the option of a christmas banner--however--Amazon is alienating a HUGE block of their potential customers by not allowing for an OPTION for a website owner to use a Christmas banner if he/she would like to. 
This whole "Let's be politically correct" thing has gone far past ridiculous.


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## TraciJo67 (Dec 16, 2010)

You're all forgetting the true meaning of Christmas, which is (according to Amazon and all other retailers) SPEND on little Johnny, snatch up those overpriced toys and SPEND hours neatly wrapping them so Johnny can SPEND 3 seconds tearing into them on Christmas morning and then SPEND another 30 minutes tantruming because he didn't get everything on his list. SPEND on that ginormous plasma TV for dad and SPEND some more on that diamond bracelet for mom. SPEND yourself into this decade's version of debtor's prison (i.e., 30% interest-bearing credit cards). Chuck a handful of coins into the Salvation Army bucket at Wal-mart before you go in to SPEND several month's of wages and feel that you've done your part for the giving spirit of the holidays. But above all, SPEND! 

Yeah. Bah, humbug.


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## mossystate (Dec 16, 2010)

_" and yes, the celebration was initially timed to make use of the winter solstice celebrations already happening "_

Make use of, or wanting to shove it off the map in the minds and hearts of the people celebrating it? Maybe Amazon is run by a group of Pagans ( ... ), realated to Pagans from ye early days who are exacting their revenge. Maybe they are saying...get your own damned holidays, ya squatters...but give us your cash.

Dun dun duuuuuuuuuun.


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## luscious_lulu (Dec 16, 2010)

toni said:


> If you are not accomodating the people you are directly marketing. Seems like a problem, no?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?



But they are. They are including people of all faiths/beliefs. If it was just Christmas they would only be catering to the Christians. By saying happy holidays they cover all the basis.


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 16, 2010)

luscious_lulu said:


> But they are. They are including people of all faiths/beliefs. If it was just Christmas they would only be catering to the Christians. By saying happy holidays they cover all the basis.


thank you, lulu, for your use of logic and common sense.


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## Webmaster (Dec 16, 2010)

luscious_lulu said:


> But they are. They are including people of all faiths/beliefs. If it was just Christmas they would only be catering to the Christians. By saying happy holidays they cover all the basis.



Amazon, like almost all retailers, is making a giant bundle from Christmas sales and they are pushing Christmas gifts very, very hard. If they were so concerned about including everyone, they'd push equally hard for every other holiday in every other religion. They are not. Christmas sales is what everyone relies on to rake it in. But let's not say "Christmas," lest we offend someone. That is asinine. In addition, they can do whatever they want on their own site. But since they also rely on affiliates to get them even more sales, they should let those affiliates decide if they want to use a Christmas banner or not. That is not possible since Amazon does not have Christmas banners at all. I do not want for Amazon to make politically correct decisions for me.


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## luscious_lulu (Dec 16, 2010)

Frankly the blaming things on being politically correct is getting old. They decided that happy holidays best represented their business. Whether or not the banner is on their site or another. If you are truly offended remove their advertising from your site and send them an email telling them why. 

Truthfully, my guess is that the one banner is more cost effective. I know when you open an art file, even for seemingly small changes it costs a lot of money. If they had to have 3 or 4 banners created for the holiday season it would be very costly.


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 16, 2010)

Webmaster said:


> I do not want for Amazon to make politically correct decisions for me.


then take the democratic approach and not have a banner at all?

speaking personally for myself, i would actually be offended if i saw a Merry Christmas banner on this site, and ONLY a Merry Christmas banner.
that's just me, though. but i get the inkling that i'm not the only one.


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## Shosh (Dec 16, 2010)

disconnectedsmile said:


> then take the democratic approach and not have a banner at all?
> 
> speaking personally for myself, i would actually be offended if i saw a Merry Christmas banner on this site, and ONLY a Merry Christmas banner.
> that's just me, though. but i get the inkling that i'm not the only one.



Would you like to chip in for the cost of the monthly server bill then?


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## toni (Dec 16, 2010)

luscious_lulu said:


> Frankly the blaming things on being politically correct is getting old. They decided that happy holidays best represented their business. Whether or not the banner is on their site or another. If you are truly offended remove their advertising from your site and send them an email telling them why.
> 
> Truthfully, my guess is that the one banner is more cost effective. I know when you open an art file, even for seemingly small changes it costs a lot of money. If they had to have 3 or 4 banners created for the holiday season it would be very costly.



Do you know how much their sales increase during this season? I think it would be a sound investment.


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 16, 2010)

Shosh said:


> Would you like to chip in for the cost of the monthly server bill then?


sure. i think we can *all* pitch in and donate. i think the vast majority of us would be willing to donate a few bucks.


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## CastingPearls (Dec 16, 2010)

disconnectedsmile said:


> sure. i think we can *all* pitch in and donate. i think the vast majority of us would be willing to donate a few bucks.


There's a supporter tab in the bar at the top of the page. Have at it.


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## toni (Dec 16, 2010)

disconnectedsmile said:


> then take the democratic approach and not have a banner at all?
> 
> speaking personally for myself, i would actually be offended if i saw a Merry Christmas banner on this site, and ONLY a Merry Christmas banner.
> that's just me, though. but i get the inkling that i'm not the only one.





disconnectedsmile said:


> sure. i think we can *all* pitch in and donate. i think the vast majority of us would be willing to donate a few bucks.



Why are you making suggestions to Conrad about running his site???? You have no right!


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## luscious_lulu (Dec 16, 2010)

toni said:


> Do you know how much their sales increase during this season? I think it would be a sound investment.



As a business person, I'd save they money and do one banner.


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## luscious_lulu (Dec 16, 2010)

toni said:


> Why are you making suggestions to Conrad about running his site???? You have no right!



it's exactly what Conrad is doing with amazon...


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## toni (Dec 16, 2010)

luscious_lulu said:


> As a business person, I'd save they money and do one banner.


REALLY???? Your business is the size of Amazon? I don't know you or what you do but I will bet it can not be compared to running Amazon.com. 



luscious_lulu said:


> it's exactly what Conrad is doing with amazon...



OMG, I was being sarcastic...


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 16, 2010)

toni said:


> OMG, I was being sarcastic...


the rolleyes emoticon kinda gave it away


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## luscious_lulu (Dec 16, 2010)

toni said:


> REALLY???? Your business is the size of Amazon? I don't know you or what you do but I will bet it can not be compared to running Amazon.com.
> OMG, I was being sarcastic...



It's not my business, but I work for a very large corporation and in marketing. We frequently do things like this to save money. 

Chill out...


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## CastingPearls (Dec 16, 2010)

All you two need is a wading pool full of lime jello and I think Conrad's work here is done.


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## luscious_lulu (Dec 16, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> All you two need is a wading pool full of lime jello and I think Conrad's work here is done.



Lmao! I prefer chocolate pudding!


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## CastingPearls (Dec 16, 2010)

luscious_lulu said:


> Lmao! I prefer chocolate pudding!


Oh hell, for chocolate pudding, *I'LL* wrassle ya!!!! HA HA HA


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## Dr. Feelgood (Dec 16, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> All you two need is a wading pool full of lime jello and I think Conrad's work here is done.





luscious_lulu said:


> Lmao! I prefer chocolate pudding!





CastingPearls said:


> Oh hell, for chocolate pudding, *I'LL* wrassle ya!!!! HA HA HA



Now I have to go take a cold shower. :smitten:


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 16, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> Oh hell, for chocolate pudding, *I'LL* wrassle ya!!!! HA HA HA



i like what this thread has become


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## Seth Warren (Dec 16, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> Oh hell, for chocolate pudding, *I'LL* wrassle ya!!!! HA HA HA



The Feats of Strength portion of the festivities is shaping up to be REALLY good this year! :happy:

*pops popcorn*


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## luscious_lulu (Dec 16, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> Oh hell, for chocolate pudding, *I'LL* wrassle ya!!!! HA HA HA



Any time, any where! :kiss2:


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## Fish (Dec 16, 2010)

toni said:


> I totally agree with you, Conrad. The contradiction is very upsetting. Since 80% of the country is Christian, 80% of the billions of dollars being pumped into the economy is for Christmas. We should be allowed to use the word Christmas. PERIOD.



Well, who's STOPPING you from saying "Christmas"? But to play devils advocate here, if it's wrong to tell you you can't say "Merry Christmas", isn't it just as wrong to tell Amazon or any other retail outlet that they HAVE to to bend to you wishes by saying it?



toni said:


> Pagan holiday
> What is your point?



The point is fairly clear. Christmas, as we know it today, is a hodge podge celebration that co-opted existing PAGAN celebrations pre-dating Christmas considerably. _(A "Christmas" tree is a PAGAN practice stolen and repackaged as a "Christmas" tradition and most historians are fairly certain that Jesus (Messiah or not) wasn't born in December.)_



toni said:


> SO is Halloween. We don't get PC about that, do we?



Maybe YOU don't but PLENTY of obnoxiously loud "Christians" do every flippin' year. Plenty of uptight people piss and moan ENDLESSLY about Halloween. Check your local elementary schools and see how many actually allow a Halloween celebration of any kind? You'll find plenty of "Fall Festivals" and the like, and plenty of bans on Halloween iconography. So-called "Christian" groups LOVE to attack Halloween. Sadly, we Halloween lovers don't have our own Fox News to invent inane, overblown editorial hyperbole about the "War on Halloween".



Webmaster said:


> Amazon, like almost all retailers, is making a giant bundle from Christmas sales and they are pushing Christmas gifts very, very hard. If they were so concerned about including everyone, they'd push equally hard for every other holiday in every other religion. They are not. Christmas sales is what everyone relies on to rake it in. But let's not say "Christmas," lest we offend someone. That is asinine. In addition, they can do whatever they want on their own site. But since they also rely on affiliates to get them even more sales, they should let those affiliates decide if they want to use a Christmas banner or not. That is not possible since Amazon does not have Christmas banners at all. I do not want for Amazon to make politically correct decisions for me.



And you're making money of of Amazon. So, here's a crazy idea, then. *STOP USING THEIR ADVERTISING.* If it offends you SO deeply that a commercial retail outlet chooses capitalism over some kind of facist, forced capitulation of psudo Christianity, then stop using their services. Vote with your wallet. But if you decide that your moral standing isn't important enough to risk financial loss on, then your point is invalidated._(And WAY Hypocritical.)_ It seems that their MONEY is good enough for you, just not their desire to be as inclusive as is possible to the population as a whole. 



Webmaster said:


> So basically, Amazon's position is to not as much as mention Christmas, in a nation where about 80% list Christianity as their religious preference, and where just about everyone celebrates Christmas in some way (Christmas is actually celebrated in most parts of the world in some way).



Wow. Their are celebrations of the season throughout the WORLD, but they are most certainly not all "Christmas" celebrations just because they happen at the same basic time and have similar underlying, non-religious messages of peace, goodwill and giving. And let's remember that an overwhelming majority of the things associated with "Christmas" have next to nothing to do with Jesus Christ. _(Sorry, Toni, but the traditions were almost ALL stolen from Pagans, including the date.)_



Webmaster said:


> But the argument seems to be that we need to be completely and totally inclusive, and if there aren't banners for every holiday in some other religion, then there must not be one for Christmas either.



Yeah, inclusiveness SUCKS. Conform to Christianity of get out! :doh:



Webmaster said:


> Well, fine. And I am far from a religious zealot. But I am really sick of the "Happy Holidays" crap just so that we don't have to mention "Christmas' and potentially offend someone. And while we're all guilted into spending billions for Christmas, ummm.., HOLIDAY gifts, actually mentioning Christmas is a no-no. Good Grief. That's just not right.



Well, fine. And I am far from an Atheist zealot. But I am really sick of the "War on Christmas" crap that blows a non-issue into a flaming sword to be rattled by everyone who wants to make sure their beliefs are never challenged in ANY way. Even by something as innocent and inclusive as businesses wanting EVERYONE to feel welcome using their services or buying their goods. THAT'S just not right. 

Seeing as how you aren't dropping their ever so offensive "Holiday" banners because YOU don't want to loose any money, don't piss on THEM for not wanting to loose any money either. That's just massive hypocrisy!

_*
HAPPY HOLIDAYS, MERRY CHRISTMAS, HAPPY HANUKKAH, RIGHTIOUS RAMADAN, CRAZY KWANZAA, MIGHTY FINE FESTIVUS or happy "It's just flippin' December" to all! *_


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## Webmaster (Dec 16, 2010)

All decent points, Fish, and it's good to always be able to count of Dimensions posters to present the gamut of arguments.


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## Saoirse (Dec 16, 2010)

Bfd guys. Srsly.


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## luscious_lulu (Dec 16, 2010)

Back to pudding wrestling... 

We should take bets


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## Fat Brian (Dec 16, 2010)

disconnectedsmile said:


> i don't know what a hanukkah bush is, but it sounds sexy!



This is the only hanukkah bush I know of. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poOZKQwgs0g&feature=related


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## Fish (Dec 16, 2010)

Webmaster said:


> Well, Amazon doesn't have one. They have banners for absolutely everything, including Earth Day, Halloween, Valentine's Day, New Year, but not Christmas. So I had to resort to the generic "Holiday" banner you see above, the one that still mentions Black Friday.



Hmm, I just thought of something. Don't any of you folks that get bent out of shap over "happy Holidays" have a problem with a Valentine's Day banner? The actual holiday is supposed to be called "Saint Valentine's Day", isn't it? Shouldn't the banner say SAINT Valentine's Day?

C'mon everyone. Hop on the righteous indignation bandwagon! Tally HO!!!


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## thatgirl08 (Dec 16, 2010)

Is this really appropriate for the main forum? It seems pretty HP charged to me.


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## Shosh (Dec 17, 2010)

disconnectedsmile said:


> sure. i think we can *all* pitch in and donate. i think the vast majority of us would be willing to donate a few bucks.



Guess what I have been a financial supporter of Dimensions over the years. Now what.


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 17, 2010)

Shosh said:


> Guess what I have been a financial supporter of Dimensions over the years. Now what.



are you still on that? i diverted my attention to pudding wrestling.
ladies post pix plz k thx


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## bmann0413 (Dec 17, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> Is this really appropriate for the main forum? It seems pretty HP charged to me.



I was thinking that too.


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## Shosh (Dec 17, 2010)

disconnectedsmile said:


> are you still on that? i diverted my attention to pudding wrestling.
> ladies post pix plz k thx



Well start a pudding wrestling thread then, because we are discussing a legitimate subject.


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 17, 2010)

Shosh said:


> Well start a pudding wrestling thread then, because we are discussing a legitimate subject.



srs bizness


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## luscious_lulu (Dec 17, 2010)

disconnectedsmile said:


> srs bizness



Pudding wrestling is serious! You want to referee?


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 17, 2010)

luscious_lulu said:


> Pudding wrestling is serious! You want to referee?



oh man, really?
THIS IS THE BEST DAY OF MY LIFE :blush:


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## Shosh (Dec 17, 2010)

disconnectedsmile said:


> srs bizness



All the derailing stuff is not cute, and it is actually pretty tired, having been done a million times before.

Adults wish to have an adult conversation.

It is very arrogant to force that crap on others.


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## luscious_lulu (Dec 17, 2010)

Shosh said:


> All the derailing stuff is not cute, and it is actually pretty tired, having been done a million times before.
> 
> Adults wish to have an adult conversation.
> 
> It is very arrogant to force that crap on others.



It's called lightening the mood and he's not the only one doing. it. If you're going to rail on someone why not castingpearls, she started it. Or me, I'm encouraging it.


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## frankman (Dec 17, 2010)

luscious_lulu said:


> You can be my towel boy!



As it turns out, Holiday something is a happy season for towel boys too. Can I still wear my touch-my-dreidel briefs while handing out towels, or is that against the season's morals?


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## CastingPearls (Dec 17, 2010)

I'll touch your dreidel, baby.


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## luscious_lulu (Dec 17, 2010)

frankman said:


> As it turns out, Holiday something is a happy season for towel boys too. Can I still wear my touch-my-dreidel briefs while handing out towels, or is that against the season's morals?



I'm good with it!



CastingPearls said:


> I'll touch your dreidel, baby.



Dirty girl! 
One of the many reasons I Luv you!


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## Seth Warren (Dec 18, 2010)

Shosh said:


> Oh well too bad. I am entitled to my opinion.



Indeed you are. But please have some respect for tradition: the airing of grievances happens at the dinner table.


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## BriannaBombshell (Dec 18, 2010)

Agreed fully !!


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 18, 2010)

Seth Warren said:


> Indeed you are. But please have some respect for tradition: the airing of grievances happens at the dinner table.



i'm setting up the pole now.


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## CastingPearls (Dec 18, 2010)

luscious_lulu said:


> I'm good with it!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Frank is a dirtier girl. I have pics!


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Dec 19, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> Is this really appropriate for the main forum? It seems pretty HP charged to me.



Ugg, please don't even suggest taking it to HP.  The Under Bridge Residents there would like nothing better than to threadshit all over what has so far been a fairly balanced thread and turn it into 20 pages of worthless bandwidth-wasting hurr derp. A minimum of _ad hominems_ and image macros are a pleasant change.

Realistically, the people who whine about Christmas are as irritating as the twits who waste court time and $$$ arguing over whether their child has to say "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. Think of November/December as a huge elephant, and ten blind people are touching different parts, all of them partially correct.

Call it whatever term serves your purpose:

Christmas
Hanukkah
Kwanzaa
Eid
Saturnalia
Festivus
Winter Solstice
Yule Feast (Norse pre-Christian)
Winterval

In the end, you make it whatever you wish. Celebrate and spread good cheer however you wish. Consumers are gonna hate on Amazon or Wachovia or whomever all they want--you will never please all of the people all of the time. And Amazon being the retailer that it is is still going to see purchases from people who surface-bitch about their PC-ification as it is.

Then again, some of us have ad-blocker and a kick-ass HOSTS file up to block banner ads in the first place so I never see the big to-do about it anyway. Also, I don't base how I celebrate the season on the oversensitivity of how certain retailers choose to advertise their business.


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## kioewen (Dec 19, 2010)

Webmaster said:


> I am far from a religious zealot. But I am really sick of the "Happy Holidays" crap just so that we don't have to mention "Christmas' and potentially offend someone.



+1
________


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## luscious_lulu (Dec 19, 2010)

Shosh said:


> Another example of a female hating another female who has confidence in herself.
> 
> .


 

Shosh, If you think her comments are because you have confidence in yourself you are delusional. 

She found your comments offensive (as did I.) Now, I wouldn't call you names, but come on.


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## Shosh (Dec 19, 2010)

luscious_lulu said:


> Shosh, If you think her comments are because you have confidence in yourself you are delusional.
> 
> She found your comments offensive (as did I.) Now, I wouldn't call you names, but come on.



My comments were offensive? What nonsense. 

It is tiresome when you are trying to have a legitimate discussion on a topic and people wish to derail it. 

The names she called me, now those were offensive. 

I am not delusional. This place is rife with women who have to bring other women down, who have a healthy self esteem. That is a fact.

I shall be adding several new people to my ignore list it seems.


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## luscious_lulu (Dec 19, 2010)

Shosh said:


> My comments were offensive? What nonsense.
> 
> It is tiresome when you are trying to have a legitimate discussion on a topic and people wish to derail it.
> 
> ...



When you were giving your opinion, I had no issues. When you started the condescending comments I had an issue. Yes, telling someone the adults were trying to have a conversation was offensive.

I'm not defending the names she called you. I already said I wouldn't have called you names. I just don't think her comments have anything to do with your confidence level. I'm very confident and I don't see anyone hating on me. 

I'm surprised you are going to put me on ignore. The first time I disagree with you, your response is to ignore me? I guess you are going to delete me on facebook as well.


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## Mathias (Dec 19, 2010)

Shosh said:


> My comments were offensive? What nonsense.
> 
> It is tiresome when you are trying to have a legitimate discussion on a topic and people wish to derail it.
> 
> ...



Ok, I've been reading through this topic and I'm saying this as a friend to you: You were out of line. Period. Being confident doesn't give anyone an excuse for bad behavior. You're really tired of it? Then ignore it. Simple.


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## butch (Dec 19, 2010)

Mod here:

I've put a whole bunch of posts on moderation, and suggest you all cool it with the arguing about particular posters, or about the maturity level and attitude of certain posters. We'll figure out if any of those posts can be salvaged, but in the meantime, if people continue to argue these themes, they'll receive a festive infraction for their holiday celebrations.

-Butch
Main Board Co-Mod


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Dec 19, 2010)

bigsexy920 said:


> I wish i had read this before I ordered from Amazon. I won't be anymore.
> 
> If you dont want to offend anyone then have multiple options for all holidays.





BBW MeganLynn44DD said:


> If I know someone is not Christian I will not wish them Merry Christmas.I normally say Merry Christmas and see nothing wrong with it.People need to get over themselves!





PeanutButterfly said:


> I say Merry Christmas to everyone unless I know specifically you're not Christian. Even then I still may wish you a Merry Christmas because why shouldn't your December 25th be shiny and happy? I don't get offended when my Indian friends send me "Happy Duali Day" emails nor when my Jewis friends wish me a Happy Yom Kippur. It just means have a happy October 11th or whichever day each holiday falls. I have no problem with Happy Holidays. I think it's a wonderful thing to say too but I just happen to like Merry Christmas better after December 15th and Hannukah is officially over. ( I know it doesnt always end on December 15th but whenever its over for that particular season)
> 
> I am suprised that Amazon doesn't offer a Merry Christmas banner. Even though it says Holiday its still in green and red. Why not just put the word "Christmas" on there? Or make the banner colors blue if Christmas is so offensive? It makes no sense to me. A couple of years ago, maybe 2 or 3 now, I noticed big retailers like Target and Walmart began selling "holiday" ornaments instead of Christmas ornaments. Thats the only time the word "holiday" reall bugged me. Why was it such a big deal to call them "Christmas Ornaments"? Obviously only those who celebrate Christmas would be purchasing them. I believe I wasn't the only one who was annoyed by this and in recent years I've noticed items have returned to their "Christmas" status.





Dr. Feelgood said:


> Obvious, perhaps, but nevertheless untrue. When I lived in New York City, some of my Jewish neighbors put up "Hanukkah bushes."





PeanutButterfly said:


> haha tousche. I've never heard of a Hannukah bush but if theres a market for Hannukah ornanments I'm not opposed to calling them Hannukah ornaments, nor if I saw a nice one would I hesitate to buy it because it's called a Hannukah Ornament. Why can't we just call things what they are without worrying we're going to offend someone? Sometimes our society is so PC it drives me nuts.





Webmaster said:


> Amazon, like almost all retailers, is making a giant bundle from Christmas sales and they are pushing Christmas gifts very, very hard. If they were so concerned about including everyone, they'd push equally hard for every other holiday in every other religion. They are not. Christmas sales is what everyone relies on to rake it in. But let's not say "Christmas," lest we offend someone. That is asinine. In addition, they can do whatever they want on their own site. But since they also rely on affiliates to get them even more sales, they should let those affiliates decide if they want to use a Christmas banner or not. That is not possible since Amazon does not have Christmas banners at all. I do not want for Amazon to make politically correct decisions for me.





Saoirse said:


> Bfd guys. Srsly.



I had replies to all those posts above the last one. Kind of in agreement.....but was then going to launch into my story about the Jewish people I have worked for and how cool they all were about Christmas and other people's beliefs. (Kudos to them....I liked learning from them)

However, I think Saoirse just sums up how I most feel after making myself read the whole thread. 

Oh and Merry Christmas to everyone


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## disconnectedsmile (Dec 19, 2010)

i think all the deleted posts prove that it's better to stick with Happy Holidays.


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## gangstadawg (Dec 19, 2010)

Shosh said:


> My comments were offensive? What nonsense.
> 
> It is tiresome when you are trying to have a legitimate discussion on a topic and people wish to derail it.
> 
> ...



here in in the hood we call them haters but a hater doesnt have to be a woman. for some reason a large number of the hater population seems to be women.


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## TraciJo67 (Dec 20, 2010)

gangstadawg said:


> here in in the hood we call them haters but a hater doesnt have to be a woman. for some reason a large number of the hater population seems to be women.


 
Dawd, do you see any of that going on here? I don't.

I think that Susannah is a beautiful woman with a gorgeous smile and some demonstrable capacity of expressing empathy for others. 

But she's behaved badly here, and that has nothing to do with her level of confidence and everything to do with snarky rudeness. I don't like seeing the "y'all hate me because I'm a confident BBW" card being pulled out and used on other women. It undermines EVERYONE, including Susannah.


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## frankman (Dec 21, 2010)

Am I the only one slightly surprised that the one post that started it all is still here in its entirety?

In other news, merry happy everyone, and a joyous pleasant.


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## LalaCity (Dec 21, 2010)

Damn it. Can't there be a flame war alert so that I don't miss all the juicy stuff? Just a little klaxxon effect, or something?


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## Seth Warren (Dec 22, 2010)

LalaCity said:


> Damn it. Can't there be a flame war alert so that I don't miss all the juicy stuff? Just a little klaxxon effect, or something?



What? You didn't smell the internet burning?


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## kioewen (Dec 24, 2010)

disconnectedsmile said:


> i think all the deleted posts prove that it's better to stick with Happy Holidays.



No, they very much don't.


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## frankman (Dec 24, 2010)

Seth Warren said:


> What? You didn't smell the internet burning?



I very much did. It smelled like the burnt corpes of a thousand christmas babies.


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## LovelyLiz (Dec 24, 2010)

frankman said:


> I very much did. It smelled like the burnt corpes of a thousand christmas babies.



they were winter solstice babies! damn you frankman - always christo-fying everything!


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## frankman (Dec 24, 2010)

mcbeth said:


> they were winter solstice babies! damn you frankman - always christo-fying everything!



As long as it weren't Kwanzaa kids, because joking about them is not only racist, but dangerous


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## Blackjack (Dec 24, 2010)

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> Celebrate and spread good cheer however you wish.



Forget everything else in this thread, this is the most important message of all of it.


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## Agent 007 (Dec 25, 2010)

I love the smell of burnt christmas babies in the morning!

Happy Solstice to everybody!


----------

