# Japans idea of plus size



## spookytwigg (Feb 5, 2014)

So there is a girl group in Japan called "chubbiness"... The most that can be said of them is that they have rounder face types. 

Just spotted it and thought I should share.


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## Judge_Dre (Feb 5, 2014)

They're cute, but I would feed them some more green tea ice cream and Poky chocolate sticks to fatten them up.


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## tinamarie0427 (Feb 5, 2014)

I feel like "chubbiness" is quite the stretch


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## spookytwigg (Feb 5, 2014)

Yeah, a pretty massive stretch really. I think I'd be unlikely to single them out from a crowd.


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## loopytheone (Feb 5, 2014)

I dread to think what they would think of me if that is plus sized.


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## spookytwigg (Feb 5, 2014)

Yeah, they must think we are people mountains or something.


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## lucca23v2 (Feb 5, 2014)

spookytwigg said:


> So there is a girl group in Japan called "chubbiness"... The most that can be said of them is that they have rounder face types.
> 
> Just spotted it and thought I should share.



Awww.. I can't see...


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## AuntHen (Feb 5, 2014)

The page you requested does not seem to exist.
It's also possible that the link is bad or was typed incorrectly


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## Tommy_Oblivion (Feb 5, 2014)

a quick google search has found http://www.buzzfeed.com/tanyachen/japan-has-formed-a-plus-sized-girl-group-and-theyre-calling


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## lucca23v2 (Feb 5, 2014)

spookytwigg said:


> So there is a girl group in Japan called "chubbiness"... The most that can be said of them is that they have rounder face types.
> 
> Just spotted it and thought I should share.



Really? I was that size in the 7th grade..lol


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## Jah (Feb 5, 2014)

They don't look chubby at all but I suppose they are for Japan.


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## Iannathedriveress (Feb 5, 2014)

They look cute thats for sure


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## superodalisque (Feb 5, 2014)

this would be a cute idea for the U.S. with American style chubbiness


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## lucca23v2 (Feb 6, 2014)

superodalisque said:


> this would be a cute idea for the U.S. with American style chubbiness



Yes! BBW and supersized ones...


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## spookytwigg (Feb 6, 2014)

superodalisque said:


> this would be a cute idea for the U.S. with American style chubbiness



It would definitely be a very different band.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Feb 6, 2014)

Jah said:


> They don't look chubby at all but I suppose they are for Japan.



I think you just hit the nail on the head. "Fat" and "thin" aren't characteristics of actual people so much as _concepts_ --judgments, if you will -- that we make about people. And like most judgments, they're culturally conditioned. And only on Dims have I found people who realize this and can accept the idea that judgments and opinions are not natural law. :bow:


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## Tad (Feb 6, 2014)

I seem to recall reading moans from an American woman living in Japan, because it was hard to find anything as large as a size 8, or something like that. So, yah, very different standards.

If you remember Cors, who posted here for a while, (she was from Singapore, not Japan, but just to illustrate how different things are), she found when back in Singapore that she was considered fat, but walking around London (UK) at the exact same weight there would be random strangers telling her that she was too thin and needed to eat a sandwich.


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## FatAndProud (Feb 6, 2014)

This is a prime example how weight has a LARGE bearing on a woman's appearance, opportunities and confidence in today's society (regardless of country).

Only women are marketed based on weight. Only women have to achieve acceptable sex appeal/be thin to get married/attract a husband (or so we're told  ). Women are constantly bombarded with the weight loss ads on TV (they're obviously aimed toward women). Advertisements use our insecurities and vanity to make women breakdown and look for the miracle cure to our ugly, so we can find our prince. lol It's sad.


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## Tad (Feb 6, 2014)

I'd quibble with the 'only' in there, I'd say that these days guys are told pretty clearly that if they want to attract a woman they'd better be pretty athletic. But I'd certainly agree that the messages aimed at women are more pervasive and extreme.


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## tankyguy (Feb 6, 2014)

Tad said:


> I'd quibble with the 'only' in there, I'd say that these days guys are told pretty clearly that if they want to attract a woman they'd better be pretty athletic. But I'd certainly agree that the messages aimed at women are more pervasive and extreme.



It's a weird thing to try to unravel.

As a large guy, I see a lot more hate focused at large women, by both men and women. But I also see a thriving culture of men (FAs or otherwise) going for women of all sizes.

Large guys seem to escape some of the hate, except for the neckbeard stereotypes, but there doesn't seem to be as many FFAs (or at least they're not as visible or vocal) as their male counterparts.

Either way, it's pretty clear a woman's body gets more attention, both negative and positive, from all of society.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Feb 6, 2014)

I'm with Tad on this. Part of the problem (for both sexes) is that weight gets conflated with class and status. Thin people have a better chance of being hired for executive positions, or jobs in which they have to meet the public. Fat is generally considered to be a marker for working class.


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## FatAndProud (Feb 6, 2014)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I'm with Tad on this. Part of the problem (for both sexes) is that weight gets conflated with class and status. Thin people have a better chance of being hired for executive positions, or jobs in which they have to meet the public. Fat is generally considered to be a marker for working class.



I'm sorry, but the larger a man is (to a point), he gets more respect and is deemed more desirable. lol I know several skinny women that prefer teddy bear types. No one bats an eye when they proclaim their tastes


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## Tad (Feb 6, 2014)

FatAndProud said:


> I'm sorry, but the larger a man is (to a point), he gets more respect and is deemed more desirable. lol I know several skinny women that prefer teddy bear types. No one bats an eye when they proclaim their tastes



F&P, you've got a bunch of guys here, living as men of varying sizes, saying that is not what they've observed and experienced. Perhaps it is how you feel, or what you've seen where you are, but it is not what the guys posting here are experiencing or seeing where they are.

ETA: not trying to take away from what women experience or get into 'who has it worse' type of thing. Just disagreeing with some pretty categorical statements that don't agree with my experience and observation (or from what some of the other guys have said, with theirs)


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## FatAndProud (Feb 6, 2014)

Tad said:


> F&P, you've got a bunch of guys here, living as men of varying sizes, saying that is not what they've observed and experienced. Perhaps it is how you feel, or what you've seen where you are, but it is not what the guys posting here are experiencing or seeing where they are.
> 
> ETA: not trying to take away from what women experience or get into 'who has it worse' type of thing. Just disagreeing with some pretty categorical statements that don't agree with my experience and observation (or from what some of the other guys have said, with theirs)



Funny how that is - regional fat experiences. I'm not downplaying the male fat experience. I'm just saying it's shameful we live in a world where the weight of performers are more important than talent.


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## wrestlingguy (Feb 6, 2014)

Tad said:


> F&P, you've got a bunch of guys here, living as men of varying sizes, saying that is not what they've observed and experienced. Perhaps it is how you feel, or what you've seen where you are, but it is not what the guys posting here are experiencing or seeing where they are.
> 
> ETA: not trying to take away from what women experience or get into 'who has it worse' type of thing. Just disagreeing with some pretty categorical statements that don't agree with my experience and observation (or from what some of the other guys have said, with theirs)



At the risk of derailing the thread, I want to point out a significant study that supports the fact that there is far more fat prejudice directed at fat women than men. Here's a link to the study from San Diego State University:
http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~rothblum/doc_pdf/weight/Sex_Roles_rejoinder.pdf

Again, this isn't to say that men don't experience some sort of bias, just that they don't experience it with the same frequency & intensity that women do.
I don't think it's a stretch to say that there's more body judging going on by men towards women than vice versa, and while that's my opinion, if I had more time I'd be happy to provide links to some studies that discuss this as well.

Add that prejudice from the outside world to the fetishization of fat women that goes on in the BBW/FA community, and it seems obvious why some of the ladies seem a little sensitive.


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## spookytwigg (Feb 6, 2014)

FatAndProud said:


> I'm just saying it's shameful we live in a world where the weight of performers are more important than talent.



Yep, it's a mad world. Hopefully one day we'll see it change towards a pure talent basis... I long for that day.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Feb 6, 2014)

wrestlingguy said:


> I don't think it's a stretch to say that there's more body judging going on by men towards women than vice versa.



Attitudes take forever to change. From pretty much the beginnings of agriculture, the man worked outside and the woman worked inside the house. Among those who were rich enough to have servants/serfs/slaves, the man took in the money made by their labor and was judged on the basis of the wealth and power he commanded. With handmaidens to do the work, the wife's job was to be an ornament and sex toy (while being sure to bear a male heir). I believe that is why there is more body judging of women than of men today, including the fetishization of fat women: to a considerable extent, we are still clinging to medieval attitudes in a post-industrial society.


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## tankyguy (Feb 6, 2014)

Tad said:


> F&P, you've got a bunch of guys here, living as men of varying sizes, saying that is not what they've observed and experienced. Perhaps it is how you feel, or what you've seen where you are, but it is not what the guys posting here are experiencing or seeing where they are.



In my observation, how a man's weight is perceived by society in general is related to signs of status and age.

A heavy older gentleman in a nice suit projects success, power and respect. He's the chief, he's made a comfortable life for himself.

A younger guy who's fat wearing t-shirt and jeans is usually judged more negatively as lazy, selfish, slovenly, etc. Personally, I find I have to dress a lot better and have higher standards of grooming to overcome prejudices.


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## FatAndProud (Feb 6, 2014)

tankyguy said:


> In my observation, how a man's weight is perceived by society in general is related to signs of status and age.
> 
> A heavy older gentleman in a nice suit projects success, power and respect. He's the chief, he's made a comfortable life for himself.
> 
> A younger guy who's fat wearing t-shirt and jeans is usually judged more negatively as lazy, selfish, slovenly, etc. Personally, I find I have to dress a lot better and have higher standards of grooming to overcome prejudices.



I can't dress to impress - my point lol I've tried! Especially in front of thin, educated, successful folk...they come to conclusions before I shake their hand! 

But I understand. Fat is stigmatizing, regardless of gender. People assume fat = lazy, uncouth, dumb, smelly, shy, passive, etc.

For the record, my first bf was a BHM (well over 300#) and that was back when Pokemon red/blue came out lol I like fat guys more, honestly. I don't feel they have hidden motives, just genuine love to give  Fat understands fat lol


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## superodalisque (Feb 7, 2014)

i love fat men too. nobody can hug you like they can. not to mention what i call passion pressure  and they do have a lot of love to give. that is the most awesome part. they are overall adorable.


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## tankyguy (Feb 7, 2014)

Coming back to this thread after a night of sleep.



FatAndProud said:


> I'm just saying it's shameful we live in a world where the weight of performers are more important than talent.



I think you've hit the nail on the head here. The focus is on the girls' bodies because they're being marketed as sex objects. Japan has this down to a science with their whole idol scene of young women who have to adhere to exactingly narrow specifications of looks, public persona and image.

This group was manufactured as a trial run aimed at a niche audience the same way a company would try marketing a new flavor of snack food.


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## HereticFA (Feb 7, 2014)

FatAndProud said:


> Fat understands fat lol


DING! DING! DING!
:bow::bow::bow:


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## lucca23v2 (Feb 7, 2014)

There are and always will be inequalities in how men and women are viewed. The reason why women are judged more on their weight is because for the most part it is other women doing that judging. Men don't really judge each other that way. At least not that I have seen. That being said, men that are over a certain weight and carry their weight in their bellies.. those men are viewed differently and I have seen that personally with a friend. He is a big guy and carries his weight in his stomach. People just stare at him as he walks past.


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## PunkyGurly74 (Feb 7, 2014)

Tad said:


> F&P, you've got a bunch of guys here, living as men of varying sizes, saying that is not what they've observed and experienced. Perhaps it is how you feel, or what you've seen where you are, but it is not what the guys posting here are experiencing or seeing where they are.
> 
> ETA: not trying to take away from what women experience or get into 'who has it worse' type of thing. Just disagreeing with some pretty categorical statements that don't agree with my experience and observation (or from what some of the other guys have said, with theirs)



Tad, I understand what you are saying. However, I would like to add a perspective. Women generally do not need a website to date big guys. They just do. Most women whom I have known over the course of my life dated, married and are still with BHM (and they were together way before the advent of the internet) did not feel a need to categorize it, hide in a "closet" or pretend to not like big men. They just do. When you mention size acceptance to them most of them just appropriate that to someone else. They do not view themselves and their attraction as an aberration. 

Due to the fact that we still live in a patriarchal society that relishes the totally bat-shit crazy notion that men have the right to govern women's bodies, healthcare and appearance it only adds credence to the belief that women do get the brunt of fat shaming. 

I believe the vast majority of women who date BHM's do not not post on websites do they are already dating their BHM's? Seriously, now that I think about it every BHM I worked with at my last job were all married and/or dating someone. Unlike several of us BBW's and SSBBW's. (When you work 3rd in a call center - lots of free time to talk)

Perhaps that why there are less FA's on this site?


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## tankyguy (Feb 7, 2014)

PunkyGurly74 said:


> Women generally do not need a website to date big guys. They just do. Most women whom I have known over the course of my life dated, married and are still with BHM (and they were together way before the advent of the internet) did not feel a need to categorize it, hide in a "closet" or pretend to not like big men. They just do. When you mention size acceptance to them most of them just appropriate that to someone else. They do not view themselves and their attraction as an aberration.



I'd like to challenge this. I'm not a woman myself, but I've read blogs by FFA's who identify as such and comment about how their preference in men makes them feel weird, how they don't always feel free to express it and how they catch flak from family and friends for dating big guys. You may not know any women who've experienced this, but clearly they do exist and some obviously are made to feel like their attraction isn't normal.



> I believe the vast majority of women who date BHM's do not not post on websites do they are already dating their BHM's?



I'd like to believe this is the case for many men too. Not every guy who dates a heavier woman is a FA. For them, a woman's weight is neutral, it neither attracts or repels on it's own. I believe this is the case for most people; they fall in love with a person, not a number on a scale.


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## Tad (Feb 7, 2014)

Punkygirly: I'd agree with everything you said....and I don't see any of it being in conflict with what I had said. 

(I prefer not to get into a more detailed discussion here as it is waaaayyy off topic for this thread! Happy to take it up in some other thread if you feel like hashing through it.....but just be warned that discussions around this general topic tend to get volatile)


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## PunkyGurly74 (Feb 7, 2014)

tankyguy said:


> I'd like to challenge this. I'm not a woman myself, but I've read blogs by FFA's who identify as such and comment about how their preference in men makes them feel weird, how they don't always feel free to express it and how they catch flak from family and friends for dating big guys. You may not know any women who've experienced this, but clearly they do exist and some obviously are made to feel like their attraction isn't normal.
> 
> 
> 
> I'd like to believe this is the case for many men too. Not every guy who dates a heavier woman is a FA. For them, a woman's weight is neutral, it neither attracts or repels on it's own. I believe this is the case for most people; they fall in love with a person, not a number on a scale.



I understand what you are saying, but, again, I'm speaking in general. Not meant to cover everyone. I have looked around my entire life and had numerous conversations about attraction and I never heard another woman or anyone stigmatize them for having husbands who were BHM's. However, then I must wonder though then for those women who have experienced this discrimination is it with SSBHM's? Much like BBW's vs SSBBW's? I.E. parent's response to a smaller bbw vs me lol

These are just thoughts and ideas for different perspectives as to possibilities why..but by no means are these the truth for everyone nor do I claim them to be 

And yes..some men don't even call themselves FA's..they just love women - period  Same goes for women. Some of us women just love men.


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## PunkyGurly74 (Feb 7, 2014)

Tad said:


> Punkygirly: I'd agree with everything you said....and I don't see any of it being in conflict with what I had said.
> 
> (I prefer not to get into a more detailed discussion here as it is waaaayyy off topic for this thread! Happy to take it up in some other thread if you feel like hashing through it.....but just be warned that discussions around this general topic tend to get volatile)



I was just expounding..sorry if it got off topic.


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## Nordicfat (Feb 27, 2014)

In Japan, this is "fat". But they are pretty alone about how they would define the word. I would call that normal-sized for a western woman. Maybe the fact that their D-cups are like our B-cups also tells us what "big" means to them.


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## Forgotten_Futures (Feb 27, 2014)

Yep. Japanese pop-culture is messed in the head.

But we already knew this.


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## Nordicfat (Feb 27, 2014)

Forgotten_Futures said:


> Yep. Japanese pop-culture is messed in the head.
> 
> But we already knew this.



Well, there is a reason why all strange and unexplained pictures floating around on the interwebs are japanese. Lol


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## CastingPearls (Feb 27, 2014)

It may not be anything or enough to some. It may be pop-culture, but it's something and I give them credit for starting somewhere.


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## AuntHen (Feb 27, 2014)

Nordicfat said:


> *In Japan, this is "fat". *But they are pretty alone about how they would define the word. I would call that normal-sized for a western woman. Maybe the fact that their D-cups are like our B-cups also tells us what "big" means to them.



You are right. This IS seriously fat there. Everything in Japan is about SPACE. They don't have a lot of it and try to make the most of what they do have. Everything is compact and small, so truthfully, it's not a place that has been/is/or will ever be "fat friendly", just based on those things alone (not to mention anything "health" related). So like CastingPearls said... it's a start.

By the way, Japan also uses fat as more of a descriptor. When I was there, I was teaching a class for English and had the ladies describe what they look like and their clothing etc, as part of a lesson. I heard some women using it to describe their bodies. They were hardly what I would call fat but to them it is pretty much anything over thin.


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## Forgotten_Futures (Feb 27, 2014)

fat9276 said:


> By the way, Japan also uses fat as more of a descriptor. When I was there, I was teaching a class for English and had the ladies describe what they look like and their clothing etc, as part of a lesson. I heard some women using it to describe their bodies. They were hardly what I would call fat but to them it is pretty much anything over thin.



So... what, it's simultaneously abnormal but *not* the stigma it is to us Westerners?


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## AuntHen (Feb 28, 2014)

Forgotten_Futures said:


> So... what, it's simultaneously abnormal but *not* the stigma it is to us Westerners?




Bottom line, they consider BEING fat unhealthy and it is not the norm there but the word fat is not USED/CONSIDERED (insult) like a *four letter word* (as it is in other places).

*At least this has been *my *experience.


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## Yakatori (Mar 1, 2014)

Or is that just some sort of aberration?

Like the way a Westerner might cheer for a boxing match, but would consider an actual boxer like Mike Tyson scary or otherwise unrelatable?


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## AuntHen (Mar 7, 2014)

Sumo is an exception. They have celebrity status. I also saw a documentary on how they gain their weight and it seems they do not have *visceral *fat due to their fitness routine.


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## BigCutieAspen (Mar 16, 2014)

lol 3 of them might equal the size of me :$


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## exponder (Mar 21, 2014)

Seems like they'd know better since they have the sumo wrestling. I suppose what's concidered chubby for male and female is quite differen't. Some of the sumo's in my eyes are just chubby and not fat. Just sayin'..


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## AuntHen (Mar 21, 2014)

^ Sumo is the exception to the rule though. They also can argue that the wrestlers do not have health problems (which has been documented to be true). The lifestyle of Sumo though is not for the average person.

One thing that I truly love about the Japanese is that they are taught to be *extremely *polite and mind their own business. You may be stared at a bit (more for being a foreigner) in the countryside but for the most part, you won't be ridiculed or made to feel bad publicly for your fatness.


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## KHayes666 (Mar 21, 2014)

Oh god....

I bought a Kisuke Urahara cosplay outfit that was a size "large" and apparently Japan's idea of large is 5'6 160 pounds because it didn't fit me at all.


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