# Have You Ever Dealt With Someone in the Outer Closet?



## superodalisque (May 6, 2010)

one of my gfs and i were talking the other night. and we came up with this term of the outer closet. we use it to describe a few guys who from all outward appearances seem to be out but really might not be. its hard to gage if its a true condition or not but we've noticed over time quite a lot of people who fit into the category. do you know somebody like that, who looks out from the outside but really isn't. what kinds of things tipped you off? when did you figure out that the person wasn't exactly what you thought they were?


-they'll hang around fat folk at an event but IRL they are fat free

-they are very active in social events where they can look but don't bother to SA political events in their area


-the only time they are out with fat women is if they are in a group

-they proudly wear the t-shirt at the event but won't wear it outside

-if they are interested in someone they'll never take her "off campus" for a 
date alone

-get totally embarrassed by fat women who don't try to mimic thin girls in their dress or actions, even though they are highly attracted in private.

-has 2 facebook/twitter pages--one for fat folk and one for the others. but you'll never see any photos of fat and thin friends mixing.


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## AnnMarie (May 6, 2010)

I have no fat "personalities" on my facebook, nor do I accept strangers or even close friends who are associated with the entertainment side of life in this community. I have work colleagues there, close friends (fat or thin), and high school/family members. 


Why do I do this? Because my personal, private, sexual life - that largely revolves around aspects of this community and obviously part of modeling in some respects, isn't part of their interaction with me nor should it be. 

In the same way I do not discuss my sexual proclivities with work colleagues or Aunt Mimie, nor do I need to expose them to places like this. If they found it of their own desire and need, because it was something they wanted - then fine, no issue. But I don't need a neon sign pointing to the inside of my sensual self or sexual identity. 

It's not shame. It's propriety. 

I'm willing to afford the same possibilities to others - be they men or women.


After over 10 years of events, both local and national, I can say that I know maybe a small handful of men who'd match your description - very few, really. 

Maybe it's just my zero tolerance for bullshit thing, but I don't find that guy, or type of guy, to be even remotely close to common or a blip on the radar.


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## msbard90 (May 7, 2010)

SuperO,

I don't necessarily think that being in the "outer closet" is exclusively an FA thing. Obviously, there are FA's who aren't ready or willing to share their sexual life with those outside of the SA community. But this applies to a lot more than just the SA community. I once knew someone who isn't who I thought he was. When we met, he appeared to be a very studious college student, athletic and outgoing, and yes, he happened to be an FA as well. Well, turns out he was on the brink of failing college, and ultimately dropped out, "playing football" with the guys was really playing Madden the videogame, and he only said he was an FA because he wanted my boobs to get bigger but nothing else. It was awkward and embarassing to find out who he really was. It was awkward when he said he was an FA and was all okay with my size until he realized that fat doesn't just settle in my boobs and thats it. It was more than awkward- it hurt. A lot. I personally felt he was okay with my body until his brothers and friends criticized him for it.


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

AnnMarie said:


> I have no fat "personalities" on my facebook, nor do I accept strangers or even close friends who are associated with the entertainment side of life in this community. I have work colleagues there, close friends (fat or thin), and high school/family members.
> 
> 
> Why do I do this? Because my personal, private, sexual life - that largely revolves around aspects of this community and obviously part of modeling in some respects, isn't part of their interaction with me nor should it be.
> ...




i get what you are saying here but i think there is a difference between where we are coming from. i'm not talking about sexualization just socialization. 

i understand your position completely on your score. you are a web model and definitely not a guy and you have to be careful about components of your life getting sexualized that shouldn't. its perfectly natural to be protective and keep certain things separate in that situation. it makes perfect sense. but what i'm talking about is the usual everyday stuff that most people go through that aren't in the sex industry. for instance there isn't much of a real reason for people who don't have concerns like you do to separate their friends into fat and thin categories that never mix. that just doesn't make sense to me. why would people totally separate all of their friends on that level? most fat people are personalities in the adult industry.

-seeing fat people IRL

-being active at political events in your area that you care deeply about 
sometimes 


-dating a woman on her own and singly in a perfectly normal situation

-wearing a simple non sexualized t-shirt like "i support size acceptance" in 
public in the same way that everyone else would any political belief--like 
when jogging or on days off.

-dating the same woman he wants privately publicly without trying to 
minimize or ignore special wants and needs particular to her 

- not always losing her in a group 
of friends as though she wasn't a date.

i don't see how any of those things are inappropriate. most would apply to what any woman would like in a guy anyway. they sound kind of normal to me. but i think you hit on something. maybe the problem is the fact that some people might overly sexualize the situation altogether. dating a fat woman and not being ashamed to mix your social personal and work life at least on a normal level shouldn't be a huge exhortation on your sexual preference anyway. for most people it isn't. its should be a fact of life like it would be for everyone else. its no different than what other people might do. 

sometimes my date might pick me up from work and i might intro him to a co worker. we might even have drinks together. thats normal. he knows many of my friends. thats normal. i don't have only one group for when i'm with him and another group on my own. thats normal. often we are in groups of people of all different sizes. thats normal. so no one i know would think of me or anyone i date as a special case or something weird or bizarre. we are just normal and natural like everyone else. one or both of us might just happen to be fat. we are still nice, fun to be with and have names instead of size and sexual preference designations.

there is't anything wrong with doing the specialized stuff sometimes but i'm not sure its healthy not to be able to do other things together in a totally out and proud way no matter where you are. events can be a start for people but its only a start. sometimes i have a feeling that folks are getting comfortably stuck. thats all i'm saying. and if you have a partner who resists moving out of that it might be a heads up. 

we don't have to act like we are doing something bizarre just by being together. we are't bizarre. we are just fat or think that fat people are attractive. sometimes people wonder why they get treated as though they are abnormal awful freaks. maybe its because we don't always behave like we are more than that? what if a woman doesn't want to be a freak in her man's life? what if she just wants a guy to be proud of her and desire her and respect her like any woman would like? she has to require that and look for it or she'll never get those things. IMO what you get depends on the level you want to operate on and teaching people how you'd really like to be treated. i don't know a lot of fat women who really want to made to feel like an odd secret.


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> SuperO,
> 
> I don't necessarily think that being in the "outer closet" is exclusively an FA thing. Obviously, there are FA's who aren't ready or willing to share their sexual life with those outside of the SA community. But this applies to a lot more than just the SA community. I once knew someone who isn't who I thought he was. When we met, he appeared to be a very studious college student, athletic and outgoing, and yes, he happened to be an FA as well. Well, turns out he was on the brink of failing college, and ultimately dropped out, "playing football" with the guys was really playing Madden the videogame, and he only said he was an FA because he wanted my boobs to get bigger but nothing else. It was awkward and embarassing to find out who he really was. It was awkward when he said he was an FA and was all okay with my size until he realized that fat doesn't just settle in my boobs and thats it. It was more than awkward- it hurt. A lot. I personally felt he was okay with my body until his brothers and friends criticized him for it.



no it doesn't have to be exclusively an FA. its a man thing basically. but here we are dealing mainly with FAs and thats why i put it in what i call a dims context. most people here go to events or know of them and are a bit politically aware. so that brings a whole other element into the conversation thats hard to ignore. these are people who know more about what the ramifications of their actions are. i personally wouldn't date a non FA who'd do those things either. but its even worse for someone who has more of an access to our concerns and already should know better. knowing better, agreeing with us for the most part, and still making the excuses is really worrisome because it shows a kind of willfulness. if someone knows what you want or need and acknowledges that you deserve it but still won't do it...? whats going on with that?

i'm really sorry you went through that. but if a guy just wants you for your boobs, FA or not you're better off without him. someone with a more perfect pair is bound to come along if thats his major concern. if it wasn't your size it would be something else. sounds like women were not people to him just yet anyway. i really feel bad that you were embarrassed. he should have been, for being so juvenile.


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## msbard90 (May 7, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> no it doesn't have to be exclusively an FA. its a man thing basically. but here we are dealing mainly with FAs and thats why i put it in what i call a dims context. most people here go to events or know of them and are a bit politically aware. so that brings a whole other element into the conversation thats hard to ignore. these are people who know more about what the ramifications of their actions are. i personally wouldn't date a non FA who'd do those things either. but its even worse for someone who has more of an access to our concerns and already should know better. knowing better, agreeing with us for the most part, and still making the excuses is really worrisome because it shows a kind of willfulness. if someone knows what you want or need and acknowledges that you deserve it but still won't do it...? whats going on with that?
> 
> i'm really sorry you went through that. but if a guy just wants you for your boobs, FA or not you're better off without him. someone with a more perfect pair is bound to come along if thats his major concern. if it wasn't your size it would be something else. sounds like women were not people to him just yet anyway. i really feel bad that you were embarrassed. he should have been, for being so juvenile.



Oh, I know lol. I realized that he was being very juvenile about the whole situation. I think that it is embarassing to be led on because it's like, "I'm a fool for believing you're someone you're not". Because of situations like this, I have become rather cynical of everyone. Its hard to assume anyone is telling me the truth, since I have been lied to all the time.


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## msbard90 (May 7, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> yeah it sad for everybody. even worse for the women who buy into it because they don't know better yet. i hate it that women who are newish like msbard etc..might get sucked into this because they can get the impression that someone around in the community might treat them better than guys on the outside just because they try to be BMOC at events or on dims etc...its not fair to pretend to be something they are not. it doesn't help the guy either because he gets to pretend to himself that what he is doing is healthy and act clueless about hurting people.



You're absolutely right. I'm in a relationship now and was when I first joined the threads a year ago(with someone who's completely foreign to the SA world, dims and other forums, bbws, whatever terminolgy etc.....) but if I wasn't, I could see how easily I'd be suckered in to these "personalities" of the community. I've yet to go to a bash for this reason. I've yet to go because I don't want to get hit on by some guy who's all "pro bbw" behind closed doors, but irl, is some conceited douchebag who wants nothing to do with me. 

Its hard to commit to going to a bash with a bunch of strangers online, it really is.... and it seems for the guys in this community, the losers are the ones who don't go to bashes, and the "winners" are the one's who show their face. I don't understand the concept behind it, because going to a bash is just as cowardly as hiding behind the pc. Take your big girl out for real, if you're really into them. Don't only prove yourself by "going to a bash or twenty". But who am I to tell people to prove themselves? 

Thats where it gets tricky. I think we as women want our FA to prove himself as a legit FA, not some loser who's a big shot in the SA community, then washes his hands of it as soon as he's done jacking off to the paysite board. But, we also don't want him to have to prove himself-- to just *be* the quintessential FA, perfect in all his glory. My question is, how do you find the mix? Someone who's legit and true to their word, but also "perfect" to us? Seems like I want it all.....


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> You're absolutely right. I'm in a relationship now and was when I first joined the threads a year ago(with someone who's completely foreign to the SA world, dims and other forums, bbws, whatever terminolgy etc.....) but if I wasn't, I could see how easily I'd be suckered in to these "personalities" of the community. I've yet to go to a bash for this reason. I've yet to go because I don't want to get hit on by some guy who's all "pro bbw" behind closed doors, but irl, is some conceited douchebag who wants nothing to do with me.
> 
> Its hard to commit to going to a bash with a bunch of strangers online, it really is.... and it seems for the guys in this community, the losers are the ones who don't go to bashes, and the "winners" are the one's who show their face. I don't understand the concept behind it, because going to a bash is just as cowardly as hiding behind the pc. Take your big girl out for real, if you're really into them. Don't only prove yourself by "going to a bash or twenty". But who am I to tell people to prove themselves?
> 
> Thats where it gets tricky. I think we as women want our FA to prove himself as a legit FA, not some loser who's a big shot in the SA community, then washes his hands of it as soon as he's done jacking off to the paysite board. But, we also don't want him to have to prove himself-- to just *be* the quintessential FA, perfect in all his glory. My question is, how do you find the mix? Someone who's legit and true to their word, but also "perfect" to us? Seems like I want it all.....



IMO, as with all guys, take your time.


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## msbard90 (May 7, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> IMO, as with all guys, take your time.



Best advice. Its hard to take it slow, especially when you're young like me. . One of my biggest fears is being alone and so if I were to ever not be in a relationship with my current boyfriend, I'd be afraid to be "too desperate".


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## msbard90 (May 7, 2010)

I'd like to get back to the question at hand, if its okay with everyone?


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> I'd like to get back to the question at hand, if its okay with everyone?



good idea!


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## msbard90 (May 7, 2010)

My question is :

"has 2 facebook/twitter pages--one for fat folk and one for the others. but you'll never see any photos of fat and thin friends mixing."

*People actually do this?????* I mean, I'm not ignorant in any sense of the word, I could only imagine it is true, but that's pathetic.


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> My question is :
> 
> "has 2 facebook/twitter pages--one for fat folk and one for the others. but you'll never see any photos of fat and thin friends mixing."
> 
> *People actually do this?????* I mean, I'm not ignorant in any sense of the word, I could only imagine it is true, but that's pathetic.



its pretty common. the girls call those guys fattie collectors. everyone on their friends page is a fat girl or a few other guys in the community and thats all.


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## msbard90 (May 7, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> its pretty common. the girls call those guys fattie collectors. everyone on their friends page is a fat girl or a few other guys in the community and thats all.



I've seen it a lot on myspace, but I would just imagine FB as a place where people can converse with those whom they associate with irl......
But then again.....


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## Jes (May 7, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> Its a maturity thing, really. It takes people time to find out who they really are and be accountable for their preferences and true to their word. Some people can shake it, but some can't. Its what separates the boys from the men, you know?



How long does it take? 1 year? 3 years? 5 years?

(rhetorical, bard. I'm not picking on you, more thinking aloud)


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## OneWickedAngel (May 7, 2010)

Two summers ago, on the first date. 

He invited me to meet some of his friends at an outdoor concert. We were hanging out with his friends (male and female, of which I was the largest female by at least 100 lbs). One of the guys made a snide fat comment about one of the back-up singers. Two of the three other women and all the guys started laughing, including my soon-to-be ex-date as the insults started to escalate. About three bad jokes in I cleared my throat. They turned and saw whatever murderous expression was on my face and pretty much blanched. Before one false apology was uttered I lit into them and especially him before I got up and left.


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## Jes (May 7, 2010)

I can think of another guy who had a GF, but lived an hour or so away, and so he was trying to get a leg over me. I wasn't interested. But I do remember him going on and on about how he was 'one of the good FAs.' And I do mean on and on. I honestly couldn't believe that he would say, let alone think, that. One of the good FAs? The kind who tries to sleep with someone local b/c his GF lives an hour away? When I said he wasn't interested, he spat some nasty shit back at me. It must be so hard being 'one of the good FAs!'

I think some guys are in a closet of their own making. I mean, like... they actively think they are in NO closet, but that simply can't be true for some of them.


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

Jes said:


> How long does it take? 1 year? 3 years? 5 years?
> 
> (rhetorical, bard. I'm not picking on you, more thinking aloud)



i wanted to comment on this but it would sound like i'm trying to attack someone and i really can't say it now.


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## msbard90 (May 8, 2010)

Jes said:


> How long does it take? 1 year? 3 years? 5 years?
> 
> (rhetorical, bard. I'm not picking on you, more thinking aloud)



Some never grow up, much like Peter Pan


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## Jes (May 8, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i wanted to comment on this but it would sound like i'm trying to attack someone and i really can't say it now.


Super, I don't think that's true. It's a thread about the outer closet and I'm sure most of us have experienced it. Anyone who would disagree...well, qui s'excuse, s'accuse. Try anyway? Be oblique (smoke and mirrors?) and share your thoughts.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (May 11, 2010)

*subscribes*


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## superodalisque (May 11, 2010)

Jes said:


> Super, I don't think that's true. It's a thread about the outer closet and I'm sure most of us have experienced it. Anyone who would disagree...well, qui s'excuse, s'accuse. Try anyway? Be oblique (smoke and mirrors?) and share your thoughts.



well i was going to say per time limit that i' not sure there is really one either. i'm not sure anyone ever really changes their character. they might open up and live a bit but there is something sort of weak nellied about being closeted. that could be an indicator about how the person approaches anything just a little difficult in life. its possible that they are just the type of person that buckles easily under pressure. so its of more concern than just about someone in their lives being fat. 

if you stay with the person and really try to make a life together are they going to run and hide when the usual normal difficulties come along. i mean if someone just makes a snide comment about a woman's weight and they are ready to fold then whats going to happen in the real world when they have stiff competition re: their career etc... all of that stuff can get hectic. it might be hard to be with someone who has such a difficult time standing up for themselves and having basic personal strength.


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## katherine22 (May 12, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> You're absolutely right. I'm in a relationship now and was when I first joined the threads a year ago(with someone who's completely foreign to the SA world, dims and other forums, bbws, whatever terminolgy etc.....) but if I wasn't, I could see how easily I'd be suckered in to these "personalities" of the community. I've yet to go to a bash for this reason. I've yet to go because I don't want to get hit on by some guy who's all "pro bbw" behind closed doors, but irl, is some conceited douchebag who wants nothing to do with me.
> 
> Its hard to commit to going to a bash with a bunch of strangers online, it really is.... and it seems for the guys in this community, the losers are the ones who don't go to bashes, and the "winners" are the one's who show their face. I don't understand the concept behind it, because going to a bash is just as cowardly as hiding behind the pc. Take your big girl out for real, if you're really into them. Don't only prove yourself by "going to a bash or twenty". But who am I to tell people to prove themselves?
> 
> Thats where it gets tricky. I think we as women want our FA to prove himself as a legit FA, not some loser who's a big shot in the SA community, then washes his hands of it as soon as he's done jacking off to the paysite board. But, we also don't want him to have to prove himself-- to just *be* the quintessential FA, perfect in all his glory. My question is, how do you find the mix? Someone who's legit and true to their word, but also "perfect" to us? Seems like I want it all.....




Keep wanting it all. You are a young gorgeous woman. What you are attributing to FAs is applicable to other men as well. The bottom line is do you have guts or do you crumble under the disapproval of others.


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## superodalisque (May 12, 2010)

katherine22 said:


> Keep wanting it all. You are a young gorgeous woman. What you are attributing to FAs is applicable to other men as well. The bottom line is do you have guts or do you crumble under the disapproval of others.



they wouldn't let me rep you again


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