# Are we too demanding when it comes to dating?



## olwen (Aug 17, 2009)

I sometimes wonder if fat women sometimes have unrealistic expectations when it comes to men, FAs or no. Are we looking for a superman, a knight in shining armor; someone to rescue us from our (fat) selves or are we looking for someone to complete us? When we talk about the kind of guy we want, and I hear things like I want a man who wants me for me - a guy who wants me despite my fat, I'm never sure if this is a rejection of one's size or an acknowledgment of it. I realize too that how much we identify with being fat (a wish to disown it or accept it completely as who we are) probably has something to do with our expectations...I just wonder if we expect too much from men, like, we don't expect them to be perfect, but we do expect them to "get" us as fat women, whatever that means.... Then I think also of the kinds of women who think they can change men after they meet them....are there fat women who expect to be able to change a man's mind regarding how he reacts to our size? My thoughts about this are all jumbled up so I hope the jist of what I'm asking makes sense....


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## comaseason (Aug 17, 2009)

All I want is mutual attraction and mutual respect. 

I have ZERO desire to change anyone. Everyone is uniquely perfect and uniquely flawed. If a partner's perfection and/or flaws are something I wish to change or can't handle then that's my red flag that they're not the one for me.

I do not expect someone to understand the ins and outs of my behavior, my life experiences (fat or not), my physical challenges or my outlook on the world at large.

What I do expect is that this person would respect my thoughts and feelings. I expect that he would listen. I also expect that if he thinks I am wrong he should be able to respectfully disagree and tell me why. And on the other hand he should be willing to listen respectfully to me if I disagree. One of us may have missed something along the way. I am not going to break (I may cry - but I will not break) if someone tells me something I don't want to hear, and I expect the same from a potential partner.

It may be a tall order, but I don't think it's too much to ask.

...of course...I'm still single...:blush:


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## MsGreenLantern (Aug 17, 2009)

I think women who project their body issues on men want too much, sure.

I attracted my SO by boldly proclaiming when we were just friends that I "Have no issue with my size, and am active in size acceptance communities online". He peeks over my shoulder at the site to this day. We've never discussed size, we've never made a big deal about it. We both love and respect each other. We have an active sex-life. He had a crush on me because of stuff in common and my confidence... thats how it should go.

Don't look for a knight to take away all your pains and self-hatred, look for someone who you just mesh with on the most basic levels, and go from there.


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## Tooz (Aug 17, 2009)

This is not meant to be disrespectful, but I have seen some women here really do expect far, far to much. I think it's not just fat women, though...I think everyone does it.


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## olwen (Aug 17, 2009)

Tooz said:


> This is not meant to be disrespectful, but I have seen some women here really do expect far, far to much. I think it's not just fat women, though...I think everyone does it.



I see it a lot too, that's why I'm asking....I wonder how true it is for us in general....for me, not having positive male role models in my life has made me really wonder not only if a good guys were possible, but if I ask too much in wanting to find one. It's taken me a couple years of therapy to figure out exactly what I want in a guy in terms of expectations. Having a sexual fetish hasn't helped any either since the kinds of guys I meet within that world have unrealistic expectations of themselves sometimes. It's been difficult trying to find a balance within that world between a domineering guy and a meek one. In other words, I'm 33 and I'm just now figuring out what I want and that hopefully I'm not asking too much.

I do see thin women make that mistake of thinking they could change a guy once they get one. Never ends well. Dating is difficult for everybody, but I feel like when you are fat it is fraught with even more difficulty since we have to deal with sexual expectations that don't always line up with how we see ourselves (for good or ill). The kinds of expectations that thin women don't have to deal with, so it makes me wonder how difficult or not it can be to hold on to some sort of identity in the face of that. Add to that the fact that some fat women don't begin to actually get dating experience till they are in adulthood....seems like a potent recipe for heartache. How can you know what to expect from a guy if you don't know yourself well enough to know what you need or who you are or want to be, and you don't know that because people keep telling you (in different ways) that you don't deserve to know because you are fat.

...Ach, again, I hope my jumbled thoughts are making sense...


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## Smushygirl (Aug 17, 2009)

Tooz said:


> This is not meant to be disrespectful, but I have seen some women here really do expect far, far to much. I think it's not just fat women, though...I think everyone does it.



Not being disrespectful either, but what do you think is too much? 


Personally, I think you deserve everything good. :blush: But that is my opinion.


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## bigmac (Aug 17, 2009)

olwen said:


> I sometimes wonder if fat women sometimes have unrealistic expectations when it comes to men, FAs or no. Are we looking for a superman, a knight in shining armor; someone to rescue us from our (fat) selves or are we looking for someone to complete us?



I'm going to have to agree and say yes some women have very unrealistic expectations. Ironically its been my experience that these unrealistic expectations are most often manifest by women who don't bring much to the table themselves. Its also been experience that this is not a fat thing -- thin women can be even more deluded.

The classic example is the _Officer and Gentleman_ premise. The world is full of wannabees waiting to be saved from their life of drudgery. Unfortunately in the real word factory workers and store clerks seldom land that doctor/CEO/or fighter pilot. An example which I have personal knowledge of involved my mother-in-law -- as a young store clerk she had an affair with the married CEO of a rather large company and was upset when (surprise) he didn't leave his wife (FYI said MIL was about 105lbs at the time).

Another example is women who write off guys who don't fit a very narrow physical type. They use justifications like _"I like what I like"_ or "_I'm entitled to my preference_." True -- but its also true that these women are draining much of the water out of the dating pool. I always find it ironic that women who don't want to be judged with regards to their physical appearance are often so quick to write off potential suitors based on physical characteristics.


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## mossystate (Aug 18, 2009)

bigmac said:


> > The classic example is the _Officer and Gentleman_ premise. The world is full of wannabees waiting to be saved from their life of drudgery.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## BubbleButtBabe (Aug 18, 2009)

I don't think it is so much written off but as not being what attracts them..Women are like men in that regard..We also want what we are physically attracted to and do not want to take any old guy just because he has shown some interest in us..To me if there is not some kind of attraction there why be with them? It's not fair to that person..

I think comaseason really hit the nail on the head when she said,"If a partner's perfection and/or flaws are something I wish to change or can't handle then that's my red flag that they're not the one for me." It should be a big red flag to us all..It means we are not willing to take that person as they are but want that person to take us as we are,warts and all..To me there should be no double standards..JMO


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## Tad (Aug 18, 2009)

Just to say: for sure lots of guys are too demanding when dating, too.


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## Tooz (Aug 18, 2009)

Smushygirl said:


> Not being disrespectful either, but what do you think is too much?
> 
> 
> Personally, I think you deserve everything good. :blush: But that is my opinion.



I have just seen some super long, VERY exact posts about a guy to the T, no room for any variance. It's craziness!


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## Tau (Aug 18, 2009)

My experience is that fat girls are willing to accept any old nonsense. I know fat women who go out with men they don't find physically appealing; who lie to and cheat on them; who steal from them; who laugh at them. Most of the big girls I know are often so grateful to be in a relationship they take whatever dude decides to dish up. The guys get away with absolutely everything and cos the chicks are so thankful that they've found somebody to be with - even if he is a monster - they don't complain and they don't ask for more.

I have a problem with fat girls who want to be loved in spite of their bodies. The first thing that attracts people to each - before words are spoken and wits engaged - is the physical. I don't understand how you can want a man who didn't look at you and go OMG she's HAWT!! Our thinner sisters get that all the time. Guys approach them cos they look hot - I've yet to hear a skinny chick complain about the fact that the man she is now madly in love with was interested in a shag before he was interested in her brain and amazing personality. Yes, it does happen that personality is the first thing that attracts two people to each other - but that's hardly ever - and I don't get why its so upsetting to know that the first thing that a man found appealing about you was your body.


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## StarWitness (Aug 18, 2009)

Personally, I've not been demanding enough. I spent way too long in a problematic relationship; it wasn't a nightmare-- we had some good times, and we loved each other-- but I was unhappy. And the sad part was that I _resigned myself_ to that unhappiness, because I just assumed that nobody else would love me like he did (willfully ignoring all the emotionally toxic bullshit that went on, of course). It's shocking how happy I've been since we broke up.

I think I'm more discriminating now, but also what I'm looking for (and what I've learned to avoid) has changed-- like hey, I learned that it's important to make sure he respects me as an equal! How 'bout that.


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## Sugar (Aug 18, 2009)

I've met lots of women who complain about being single, and then go down a list of things to pick the man apart. I want to shake them and say "THIS IS WHY YOU ARE SINGLE FOR THE LOVE HAM!"

I think that the majority of women expect a Jane Austen romance when we're going to get dinner at Olive Garden.

To me it's important to have a sense of self worth and an idea of what you want. However, if you're going to be rigid you'll probably miss out on something you didn't even know you wanted.


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## TraciJo67 (Aug 18, 2009)

bigmac said:


> I'm going to have to agree and say yes some women have very unrealistic expectations. Ironically its been my experience that these unrealistic expectations are most often manifest by women who don't bring much to the table themselves. Its also been experience that this is not a fat thing -- thin women can be even more deluded.
> 
> The classic example is the _Officer and Gentleman_ premise. The world is full of wannabees waiting to be saved from their life of drudgery. Unfortunately in the real word factory workers and store clerks seldom land that doctor/CEO/or fighter pilot. An example which I have personal knowledge of involved my mother-in-law -- as a young store clerk she had an affair with the married CEO of a rather large company and was upset when (surprise) he didn't leave his wife (FYI said MIL was about 105lbs at the time).
> 
> Another example is women who write off guys who don't fit a very narrow physical type. They use justifications like _"I like what I like"_ or "_I'm entitled to my preference_." True -- but its also true that these women are draining much of the water out of the dating pool. I always find it ironic that women who don't want to be judged with regards to their physical appearance are often so quick to write off potential suitors based on physical characteristics.



Anyone, no matter what the physical appearance or size, has the right to a preference and a set of expectations. Of course, some may never find a partner to suit his/her needs -- but that is the price that they pay. I'm in a relationship, but if I wasn't, my expectations would be through the roof. I readily acknowledge that I'd probably spend the rest of my life alone. I'm OK with that. More than OK, actually. I like me, and I'm damn fine company for myself. 

I don't believe that emotionally mature adults set expectations that are unreasonable, actually. Having high standards are not the same as someone nitpicking to death because he/she is actually afraid of intimacy. 

You seem to think that a woman has to be a morphed version of Julia Roberts in order to voice a preference. I don't think that I have a narrow preference, but if I did, that would be no different than many FA's narrow preference of wanting to be with women of a certain size. We want what we want. I would never settle for a man whom I wasn't attracted to; it wouldn't be fair to either of us. And I'd promptly show my partner the door if I ever caught a whiff that he felt he was settling.


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## bigmac (Aug 18, 2009)

mossystate said:


> Let me introduce you to where you are posting. I hope you are shaking your head over how many men out here have very...very...strict preferences. It is not a ' justification ' for a woman to know, not just say, that she is is entitled to her preference. When you can look me in the eye and say that you have no preferences when it comes to women, then give me shout.



Yes I have preferences. But I've always been flexible. If I could order a girl from the factory I'd request that she be 5'10", 280lbs, fair skin, dark hair, green eyes, with a graduate degree, and a professional job. My wife 5'5", 410lbs (when we met), dark skin, and an AA degree (but she's gone further on an AA than anyone else I know). 

And, yes the guys who seek a very specific body are being unreasonable too.


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## mossystate (Aug 18, 2009)

bigmac said:


> This is a problem? Seriously, guys may fantasize about such a woman but in the end its my experience that men are not as quick to discount a potential mate who doesn't meet their fantasy. Also its the woman who usually ends a relationship -- once we get comfortable us guys will put up with almost anything.



I see lots and lots of women in relationships. I am sure many of them had ' fantasy ' men in their head. I personally have seen more women who ' settle ' ( and I don' think it is always settling, like I said ). I just don't take anything you say as meaning much...sorry. Once you sneer at women having preferences, your input is heavily tainted.


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## bigmac (Aug 18, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> And I'd promptly show my partner the door if I ever caught a whiff that he felt he was settling.




This a classic logical fallacy. *We all either settle or remain alone*. Settling for good enough or as good as its going to get is what adults do. We all have a certain amount of romantic capital (i.e. looks, money, education, personality traits). We use this romantic capital to bargain for a romantic situation. Those gifted with money brains and looks have a multitude of ways to spend their romantic capital and may not have to compromise much. The rest of us will never be able to get everything we want. Accepting this fact is part of the maturation process.


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## TraciJo67 (Aug 18, 2009)

bigmac said:


> That's my point -- the fantasy is misguided -- if you want the CEO you better (a) choose rich parents or (b) get an MBA. It's much more likely that the CEO will leave his wife for the hot young Jr. VP -- and even if he doesn't she'll get a great severance package to avoid that sexual harassment suit. If the only thing you bring table is your body you'll get the short end of the stick every time.



Clearly, you're impressed by credentials.

Meh. I'm an overly educated woman who is underwhelmed by many of my equally well-educated peers (and truth be told, I ain't exactly Einstein). I've learned that education doesn't equal intelligence. I see lots of people with "licensed" and "certified" and "MD" and "practitioner" gracing their impressive titles and it doesn't enure them from bigotry, general idiocy, and ridiculously obvious character flaws. 

I'd take a hygenically challenged fish-monger over some PhD who thinks he's all that coz he can speak real purty.


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## TraciJo67 (Aug 18, 2009)

bigmac said:


> This a classic logical fallacy. *We all either settle or remain alone*. Settling for good enough or as good as its going to get is what adults do. We all have a certain amount of romantic capital (i.e. looks, money, education, personality traits). We use this romantic capital to bargain for a romantic situation. Those gifted with money brains and looks have a multitude of ways to spend their romantic capital and may not have to compromise much. The rest of us will never be able to get everything we want. Accepting this fact is part of the maturation process.




Wow. I bet your wife, of whom you've assured us has gone real far with her associates degree, finds this sentiment to be very romantic


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## bigmac (Aug 18, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Clearly, you're impressed by credentials.
> 
> Meh. I'm an overly educated woman who is underwhelmed by many of my equally well-educated peers (and truth be told, I ain't exactly Einstein). I've learned that education doesn't equal intelligence. I see lots of people with "licensed" and "certified" and "MD" and "practitioner" gracing their impressive titles and it doesn't enure them from bigotry, general idiocy, and ridiculously obvious character flaws.
> 
> I'd take a hygenically challenged fish-monger over some PhD who thinks he's all that coz he can speak real purty.




I'm impressed by intelligence and achievement. Educational credentials are only a proxy. Actual intelligence takes a while to assess. However, if you're sorting through potential mates you have to use proxy measures to weed people out -- sorry Mr. fish-monger.


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## bigmac (Aug 18, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Wow. I bet your wife, of whom you've assured us has gone real far with her associates degree, finds this sentiment to be very romantic



If she wanted romantic she should have married someone else.


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## fatgirlflyin (Aug 18, 2009)

I think for some people, demanding is just in their nature. I know that I've certainly been guilty of being demanding a time or two in past relationships, and even in my current one if I'm going to be totally honest. 

My guy seems to be able to deal with it when I get in one of my "moods" (I call it that, he doesn't) and will usually do whatever it is that I want so long as its within reason, and he's not scared to tell me when I'm being unreasonable. I do the same for him, relationships are give and take...

One thing that I try to do as a mother, is limit the amount of fairy tales in my daughters life. I think that we do a disservice to our daughters when we allow their heads to be filled with stories like Cinderella, Snow White, and the like. Same thing with romantic comedies for adults, I find myself a little persnickety if I watch too many of those sappy girly movies.


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## TraciJo67 (Aug 19, 2009)

bigmac said:


> I'm impressed by intelligence and achievement. Educational credentials are only a proxy. Actual intelligence takes a while to assess. However, if you're sorting through potential mates you have to use proxy measures to weed people out -- sorry Mr. fish-monger.



OK, so those are your standards. I think that they are rather pedantic, but then, mine probably seem equally absurd to you. Good thing we aren't married, eh?


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## mszwebs (Aug 19, 2009)

Perhaps I have been too demanding in the past. Or, maybe demanding isn't the right word. Too...set in the confines of what I think I want?

Unfortunately, everyone that I thought that I wanted, and who actually wanted me back, turned out to be huge fucking assholes. 

Sometimes though, I think that it's all about location. I am in an extremely small excuse for a city. Like...12,000 people with most of them being college kids who are only there 9 months of the year. I don't drive, so this IS my pool, and it is NOT very deep...though even with a severe lack of choices here, the internet has always been my greatest enemy, and is where I have been hurt the most intensely.

I wonder how differently I would feel about things if I lived in a city that actually had people in it. 

I do believe though, that I have to stop treating dating as though its a perfect science (since CLEARLY I have yet to master it lol) , and be willing to take more risks when it comes to men. But again, this depends on FINDING them in the first place.

Ha. I have no idea if this is even on topic anymore. Sorry for the ramble.


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## msbard90 (Aug 19, 2009)

I do have particularily high standards for a mate... He has to be not only good looking, but smart, have a good head on his shoulders, but those shoulders better be ready for me to cry on them. He can't play video games or be selfish in any way. He pretty much has to follow me around all day holding on to my hips, kissing my neck and whispering sweet nothings into my ear. Not only that, he should be one to put food on the table and be able to support me completely, even though I'll insist he doesn't.... I know that these things are impossible, and even though I love my boyfriend of 2 and a half years to pieces, I still think of my prerequesites for the perfect mate. But I guess we all have that extremely out of reach pedestal that we hope one day prince charming will reach.


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## sweet&fat (Aug 19, 2009)

I'm glad to see that this thread has actually returned to discussing the topic that was introduced by the OP! Why is this kind of contentious posting being permitted on a protected forum? Would the reverse fly on the FA/FFA forum?

BTW, I don't think expecting too much from a prospective partner is the exclusive province of BBWs. Everyone does it. Men and women, fat and thin. I have spent long periods single because I'm very picky, but it seems to have worked out for me, and I'm glad that I didn't "settle." The truth is that if I were an average weight, I would have a lot more guys to choose from, thus perhaps my ideal qualities in a man wouldn't be seen by others as "too demanding" in that there would be a statistically better chance of having them fulfilled? Where does being "too demanding" connote not being entitled to make the same choices that others do, and when is it truly a shallow checklist of idealized, non-negotiable qualities? Although when I think about it, thin friends of mine have had just as much trouble finding partners that they actually want to be with- we all share high standards when it comes to intelligence, intellectual curiosity, cultural interest, education, etc. things that others could easily label as "too demanding." Physical appearance is just one segment of a larger issue.

I hear what you're saying, mszwebs, but I would also say that in my experience, living in a big city just means that you kiss more frogs. I only met James because of dims/facebook... given the physical distance that was between us, I don't think we would have had the opportunity to meet otherwise perhaps?


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## butch (Aug 19, 2009)

Thanks for getting this thread back on topic, S&F. AS the title of this thread suggests (Are *WE* too demanding when it comes to dating?), and the placement of the thread within the protected BBW Forum also suggests, this is a thread for BBWs to talk about the topic, and not men or non-BBWs, no matter how well-meaning. If there are any more contentious posts from non-BBWs in this thread, the mod team will delete them, so please stay on topic and respect the rules of this forum. 

Thank you,
mod butch


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## MsGreenLantern (Aug 19, 2009)

fatgirlflyin said:


> One thing that I try to do as a mother, is limit the amount of fairy tales in my daughters life. I think that we do a disservice to our daughters when we allow their heads to be filled with stories like Cinderella, Snow White, and the like. Same thing with romantic comedies for adults, I find myself a little persnickety if I watch too many of those sappy girly movies.



No way! I think the opposite. I've always been a romantic, and grew up on all those Disney princesses. I soaked it all in, and you know what? I have one of the healthiest and most optimistic views on love of anyone I know. Why force a child into a 'realist' AKA 'pessimist' view of romance and love? Give them a happy, dreamy-eyed, "some day my prince will come", and they will believe he will. 

Giving up, settling [as others have mentioned], or deciding to be alone because it's too hard to find someone, is silly. No child should be shoved into an adult's mindset of love... let them jump into that world fresh and ready to experience their first loves, their crappy relationships, and their eventual soul mate with high hopes... no teen really believes a guy on a horse will come and wake her from eternal sleep with a kiss, but they can believe in a good man/woman who will make them feel like a Princess someday. 

When my best friends got down on love, or I felt downtrodden by a horrible break-up, I held onto that child-like hope of that one person who was meant for me. I knew it was only a matter of time before the right one came along.


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## mszwebs (Aug 19, 2009)

sweet&fat said:


> I'm glad to see that this thread has actually returned to discussing the topic that was introduced by the OP! Why is this kind of contentious posting being permitted on a protected forum? Would the reverse fly on the FA/FFA forum?
> 
> BTW, I don't think expecting too much from a prospective partner is the exclusive province of BBWs. Everyone does it. Men and women, fat and thin. I have spent long periods single because I'm very picky, but it seems to have worked out for me, and I'm glad that I didn't "settle." The truth is that if I were an average weight, I would have a lot more guys to choose from, thus perhaps my ideal qualities in a man wouldn't be seen by others as "too demanding" in that there would be a statistically better chance of having them fulfilled? Where does being "too demanding" connote not being entitled to make the same choices that others do, and when is it truly a shallow checklist of idealized, non-negotiable qualities? Although when I think about it, thin friends of mine have had just as much trouble finding partners that they actually want to be with- we all share high standards when it comes to intelligence, intellectual curiosity, cultural interest, education, etc. things that others could easily label as "too demanding." Physical appearance is just one segment of a larger issue.
> 
> I hear what you're saying, mszwebs, but I would also say that in my experience, living in a big city just means that you kiss more frogs. I only met James because of dims/facebook... given the physical distance that was between us, I don't think we would have had the opportunity to meet otherwise perhaps?



S&F, I probably agree with you 100% when it comes down to it...however, the location thing is kind of one of those grass is greener situations.

While I'm certain that there are a kajillion (technical term) frogs in a big city, and you can probably tell me that until we're both blue in the face...It it still going to SOUND better than what I have. Sick, ain't it?


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## fatgirlflyin (Aug 19, 2009)

I don't deny my daughter the Disney princesses, I just try to make sure that's not all she has to base her views on love and relationships. 

I also didn't say that I'd teach her to give up, live alone, or settle. However, I believe that she needs to know that there is no such thing as Prince Charming. He just doesn't exist and for her to think otherwise would just lead to disappointment later on in life. Men are people, they make mistakes, and sometimes no matter how much they love you they will say or do something that hurts your feelings. I'd rather that she knows that is reality and the cartoons not so much. 

And I guess maybe I didn't make myself very clear in the first post. I believe in soul mates and all that jazz(I don't believe that people have only one soul mate), and I believe that there is someone out there for everybody. I just don't believe that someone is going to come along and make all your grey days sunny. That has to come from within...





MsGreenLantern said:


> No way! I think the opposite. I've always been a romantic, and grew up on all those Disney princesses. I soaked it all in, and you know what? I have one of the healthiest and most optimistic views on love of anyone I know. Why force a child into a 'realist' AKA 'pessimist' view of romance and love? Give them a happy, dreamy-eyed, "some day my prince will come", and they will believe he will.
> 
> Giving up, settling [as others have mentioned], or deciding to be alone because it's too hard to find someone, is silly. No child should be shoved into an adult's mindset of love... let them jump into that world fresh and ready to experience their first loves, their crappy relationships, and their eventual soul mate with high hopes... no teen really believes a guy on a horse will come and wake her from eternal sleep with a kiss, but they can believe in a good man/woman who will make them feel like a Princess someday.
> 
> When my best friends got down on love, or I felt downtrodden by a horrible break-up, I held onto that child-like hope of that one person who was meant for me. I knew it was only a matter of time before the right one came along.


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## kayrae (Aug 19, 2009)

I don't think so. My requirements are simple: smart, attractive, monogamous, and treats me nicely. I haven't found one that returns my admiration, so... I'd rather be lonely than unhappy in an incompatible relationship.


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## msbard90 (Aug 19, 2009)

I think it truly depends on the person with the expectations for dating, so it is hard to say as a whole. I know the mods want the question answered in terms of the bbw community as a whole, but it is a vague concept. Some of us want to be in a relationship that is based on accepting "the weight", and some of us want a relationship to be about anything but "the weight". Obviously, when people get in a relationship, there is a slight attraction to eachother (physically) at the very least. IMO it is not demanding to want a relationship to be more than just about appearance. I suppose the best way to find the general opinion regarding the original post would be for people to share how they feel about themselves individually, as opposed to trying to answer a question too "deep" for one person to generalize. I might be getting the wrong idea from what Butch has said, but it is important to gather a final opinion from the experiences and personal thoughts of others, and sometimes following the question on the thread "to the T" doesn't answer it as well as reading _testimonials(not sure if that's the "right" way to say it) from bbws._


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## sweet&fat (Aug 19, 2009)

Is it actually asking too much to want to be wanted for your mind AND (or despite if that's where you're at) your body? I expect any man I'm with to appreciate who I am as a person and drool over how I look. Both are essential to me. If weight is a significant factor in your life, how is it asking too much to have a partner who understands and appreciates that, whatever your perspective vis a vis weight might be?

And, no offense to anyone, but fairytale princesses, especially of the uber-commercialized Disney variety, are not good role models for young girls.


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## msbard90 (Aug 19, 2009)

sweet&fat said:


> Is it actually asking too much to want to be wanted for your mind AND (or despite if that's where you're at) your body? I expect any man I'm with to appreciate who I am as a person and drool over how I look. Both are essential to me. If weight is a significant factor in your life, how is it asking too much to have a partner who understands and appreciates that?
> 
> And, no offense to anyone, but princesses, especially of the Disney variety, are hardly good role models for young girls.



Of course not! A good relationship IMO involves that physical attraction, as well as intellectual conversation. A balance is key. 

On the Disney side note.... I feel they are good role models. Most of them are portrayed as intelligent, outspoken, and confident. And they get what they want after much hard work. Disney makes them beautiful because its what we want to see. We wouldn't want to see Strega Nonna in a ballgown. (I loved those books, btw..)


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## Littleghost (Aug 19, 2009)

Lucky said:


> I've met lots of women who complain about being single, and then go down a list of things to pick the man apart. I want to shake them and say "THIS IS WHY YOU ARE SINGLE FOR THE LOVE HAM!"
> 
> I think that the majority of women expect a Jane Austen romance when we're going to get dinner at Olive Garden.
> 
> To me it's important to have a sense of self worth and an idea of what you want. However, if you're going to be rigid you'll probably miss out on something you didn't even know you wanted.



And the funny thing about Jane Austen is I never found it romantic so much as a bunch of British gentry smiling politely while ripping each other apart verbally. At least you get breadsticks with the fake smiles at Olive Garden.


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## butch (Aug 19, 2009)

msbard90 said:


> I think it truly depends on the person with the expectations for dating, so it is hard to say as a whole. I know the mods want the question answered in terms of the bbw community as a whole, but it is a vague concept. Some of us want to be in a relationship that is based on accepting "the weight", and some of us want a relationship to be about anything but "the weight". Obviously, when people get in a relationship, there is a slight attraction to eachother (physically) at the very least. IMO it is not demanding to want a relationship to be more than just about appearance. I suppose the best way to find the general opinion regarding the original post would be for people to share how they feel about themselves individually, as opposed to trying to answer a question too "deep" for one person to generalize. I might be getting the wrong idea from what Butch has said, but it is important to gather a final opinion from the experiences and personal thoughts of others, and sometimes following the question on the thread "to the T" doesn't answer it as well as reading _testimonials(not sure if that's the "right" way to say it) from bbws._


_

Please don't feel like there is some narrow path you must take to respond to the OP. As long as you're a BBW, you can respond in whatever way seems best. It just feels counterproductive to have non-BBWs posting in this thread since this is a protected forum where men's critiques, no matter how well meaning, are discouraged.

For those of you who would like to widen this discussion to non-BBWs, please feel free to start a thread on the main board, where well-meaning critiques would be more appropriate. 

Thank you, mod Butch_


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## sweet&fat (Aug 19, 2009)

msbard90 said:


> Of course not! A good relationship IMO involves that physical attraction, as well as intellectual conversation. A balance is key.
> 
> On the Disney side note.... I feel they are good role models. Most of them are portrayed as intelligent, outspoken, and confident. And they get what they want after much hard work. Disney makes them beautiful because its what we want to see. We wouldn't want to see Strega Nonna in a ballgown. (I loved those books, btw..)



You're right- they are intelligent and well-spoken, and I have no issue with beauty as long as there's acknowledgment that it's a diverse thing. The Disney princesses do work hard for what they want- but what is that precisely? For the most famous ones, i.e. Cinderella, Snow White, Ariel from the Little Mermaid, and Belle from Beauty and the Beast, it's marriage. Even Belle, who reads all the time and claims to want more than her limited life, ends up fulfilling her destiny by ending up with the Beast. Her dress isn't actually white at the end, but it may as well be.

Sorry to hijack- please recommence discussion of BBW demands!


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## msbard90 (Aug 19, 2009)

butch said:


> Please don't feel like there is some narrow path you must take to respond to the OP. As long as you're a BBW, you can respond in whatever way seems best. It just feels counterproductive to have non-BBWs posting in this thread since this is a protected forum where men's critiques, no matter how well meaning, are discouraged.
> 
> For those of you who would like to widen this discussion to non-BBWs, please feel free to start a thread on the main board, where well-meaning critiques would be more appropriate.
> 
> Thank you, mod Butch



Thanks for the clear-up, mod Butch  .... I can't help but get a little weary when I write a response... I feel like I have to make sure it's perfect to not get attacked on here. I'm sure you understand completely.


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## butch (Aug 19, 2009)

msbard90 said:


> Thanks for the clear-up, mod Butch  .... I can't help but get a little weary when I write a response... I feel like I have to make sure it's perfect to not get attacked on here. I'm sure you understand completely.



I do, and sorry that you feel this way. Hopefully the BBW Forum is a place that you're much less likely to have this feeling, but I understand, and wish people didn't feel this way.


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## Fascinita (Aug 19, 2009)

Tau said:


> I have a problem with fat girls who want to be loved in spite of their bodies. The first thing that attracts people to each - before words are spoken and wits engaged - is the physical. I don't understand how you can want a man who didn't look at you and go OMG she's HAWT!!



I think this is largely a myth. For every one woman I hear of who so loathes her body that she can't stand to have a man compliment her, I know ten who crave positive, considerate attention and would love to find men who find them "hot". It's when you start to separate the body from the person that trouble crops up.

I think the hullaballoo about the supposed lack of fat women who want to be liked as fat women is just that. I think, too, that when fat women ask to be desired as more than fat objects of lust -- to be desired as real women, for "all" they are -- this wish gets somehow interpreted as "oh, she must not want people to like her body." And this, I think, is grounded in a deeply rooted kind of oppression that's exerted on fat women: we're supposed to accept ourselves unconditionally and rise above our troubles seamlessly, to smile and put on a good face as proof that we love ourselves and are therefore worthy of love; we're supposed to be goddesses (superhuman) and to be at the same grateful that others want to regard us as goddesses (and if we're not grateful, the "goddess" thing is exposed as a sham, and we see quickly enough just how much regard some people really hold us in.) That's a very thin line to walk.

I don't think any woman -- fat or not -- asks for too much. I think we should ask for the world -- anyone should -- and be willing to throw ourselves fully into living and loving in return. I'd say the same applies to any human being.


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## Sugar (Aug 19, 2009)

kayrae said:


> I don't think so. My requirements are simple: smart, attractive, monogamous, and treats me nicely. I haven't found one that returns my admiration, so... I'd rather be lonely than unhappy in an incompatible relationship.



K, I think you have a realistic list and a healthy outlook. 

I've seen women who are expecting their partner to be politically active by working on a campaign, or read particular types of books or send them flowers weekly or give them diamonds just a couple months into the relationship. Just odd things...which in turn backfires on them.


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## ashmamma84 (Aug 19, 2009)

I demand alot in my life, period. I expect the best and that spills over into my romantic/intimate relationship. I don't think that's unrealistic either. Thankfully, I'm happily partnered, but I think to a degree we are both pretty demanding. And as long as it works for our unit, that's really all that matters.

The thing is, "demanding" is pretty subjective. There are some things that I am not willing to put up with that might not matter much to other women. 

If/when I was dating around, I wouldn't consider dating women that didn't dress well. Presentation isn't the be all end all, but it's pretty high on my must have list. The same goes for being completely out about one's sexual orientation; I don't tiptoe around for anyone. I'm not in the closet and at this point it would be hard for me to deal with that.

Also, I need for my partner to be highly educated and have gainful employment/career. It's something that's not negotiable for me. If I am doing well or trying make moves, my partner needs to be about the same thing. No scrubs! 

And of course, being caring, warm, honest, a fierce protector of me, an uncanny ability to make me laugh (even when I'm mad), good with her hands (in more ways than one  ), etc. are all things that made me swoon for my partner. 

That said, I really hope that women who have pages upon pages of what they need in a partner are ready to/willing to step up to the plate to be all that for their loves as well. I find that sometimes women want the sun, the moon and the stars, but aren't really working with much. Like attracts like alot of times.


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## Tania (Aug 19, 2009)

Historically I've not been demanding enough. Part of this is the submissive pleaser in me and part of this is probably dating wars Stockholm Syndrome. Somewhere along the line I got the message that I'm great as an exotic diversion, but I'm not worth keeping around afterward. I'm not proud of this, I'm just being honest with you. 

In the past I tolerated losers because I feared I was too ugly or different to deserve real consideration from the kind of guys I should have been dating. I had major body image issues. I was also big on trying to see the best in people, so I would put up with shit. The weirdest part of all this is that I still secretly felt undesireable even when everybody was practically falling all over themselves to meet me and at least three male friends fought with their sig others over the fact that these guys would talk to/hang out with me and had copies of my corset pictures on their computers. 

Before I gained the 150+ pounds (long story - I had been chubby as a kid, but misprescribed medication sent my weight FLYING in my mid-twenties...I still don't know my max, but it was well over 310) I got a LOT of attention. Of those who were interested in me, the ones I wanted were unavailable to me for one reason or another. It was really fucking weird to keep hearing how beautiful I was and how smart and how great while at the end of the day, none of my male friends and admirers gave enough of a shit to stick around. It's painfully ironic to know that you've spawned countless crushes and yet have never, ever been loved. My ex husband didn't even love me - he wanted a hot sugarmama! When I got fat, he lost interest. 

Nowadays I tend to fall for detrimentals because that's just how the cards fall chemistrywise. I'm not sure if this qualifies as "too demanding" or "not demanding enough," but I'd rather put up with a hot flake than a boring stable person. I've dated "good catches," but most of them are abysmally dull. The only exception to that rule broke my heart. Everyone else is either already taken, into perfect/thin women, or so used to conventionality that they can't understand me at all. 

Pretty don't bring you love.


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## jewels_mystery (Aug 19, 2009)

Tad said:


> Just to say: for sure lots of guys are too demanding when dating, too.



I agree with this. My best friend is a guy and the things he says. If a woman is not a "10", she has to have a lot to offer. Whereas if she is beautiful, he will overlook all her flaws.


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## Tania (Aug 19, 2009)

Littleghost said:


> And the funny thing about Jane Austen is I never found it romantic so much as a bunch of British gentry smiling politely while ripping each other apart verbally. At least you get breadsticks with the fake smiles at Olive Garden.



I can actually picture Henry Tilney taking Catherine to Olive Garden for dinner sometimes. You so totally know she's going to end up like her mother, the overworked vicar's wife with a gazillion kids. They, the Edward Ferrarses, and the Wentworths probably had the most "normal" marriages of the lot.


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## jewels_mystery (Aug 19, 2009)

Believe it or not, looks are not important to me. Don't get me wrong, I like someone that dresses nice. But I am more interested in a man who can stimulate my mind and have things in common with. My mom raised me to believe you should only date someone you can grow with and learn from. I tend to follow that. But I am starting to think that wanting a mate who has steady employment, lives on his own, pays their bills, focused and has no baby mama drama is asking too much. Nothing turns me off more than a person that has no clue of what they will be doing in 5 years nor making any plans for it.


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## ashmamma84 (Aug 19, 2009)

jewels_mystery said:


> Believe it or not, looks are not important to me. Don't get me wrong, I like someone that dresses nice. But I am more interested in a man who can stimulate my mind and have things in common with. My mom raised me to believe you should only date someone you can grow with and learn from. I tend to follow that. But I am starting to think that wanting a mate who has steady employment, lives on his own, pays their bills, focused and has no baby mama drama is asking too much. Nothing turns me off more than a person that has no clue of what they will be doing in 5 years nor making any plans for it.



I can agree with alot of that. I need to feel like I can grow and experience things with a person. I need to be able to be open and vulnerable too. I am very very sensitive and I need to feel like there's a trust there so I can share and so can my partner. I need the freedom to have my partner see me naked (emotionally/psychologically/spiritually). And while I know that my honey is a sexy beast lol, it's her mind, her personality that has me going. 

I think I am very lucky in that my lover is indeed my best friend; she's my homie. We truly enjoy each other; I'm in love with the human being she is. We can do nothing or we can have an extravagant night out -- we have fun regardless. We share the best laughs, we cry, we fight (fair!), we poke fun at each other...we enjoy learning and experiencing new things with each other. And the truth is, I'm her biggest fan. I've always believed in her because I know what she's capable of and even when she's feeling like she's not at her personal best I am there as a rock/pillar of support. Growing old with her will be so good, so sweet. I count my blessings everyday, for sure.


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## comaseason (Aug 19, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> I think this is largely a myth. For every one woman I hear of who so loathes her body that she can't stand to have a man compliment her, I know *ten who crave positive, considerate attention and would love to find men who find them "hot"*. It's when you start to separate the body from the person that trouble crops up.
> 
> I think the hullaballoo about the supposed lack of fat women who want to be liked as fat women is just that. I think, too, that when fat women ask to be desired as more than fat objects of lust -- to be desired as real women, for "all" they are -- this wish gets somehow interpreted as "oh, she must not want people to like her body." And this, I think, is grounded in a deeply rooted kind of oppression that's exerted on fat women: *we're supposed to accept ourselves unconditionally and rise above our troubles seamlessly, to smile and put on a good face as proof that we love ourselves and are therefore worthy of love*; we're supposed to be goddesses (superhuman) and to be at the same grateful that others want to regard us as goddesses (and if we're not grateful, the "goddess" thing is exposed as a sham, and we see quickly enough just how much regard some people really hold us in.) That's a very thin line to walk.
> 
> snipped...



I agree with this 100%. 

I would LOVE to find a man that thought I was hot n' sexy for both my fat body and my sweet ass mind. I wouldn't think he was strange or weird for liking my fat. I'd think it was AWESOME.

As for the other bolded point - I've been on Dims for only a short while but I've noticed that "Goddess" expectation (I'm sure it exists elsewhere - just haven't really seen it). I find that the expectation of being "confident" and totally accepting of myself and my body as fat woman - well it feels to me pretty oppressive. If I'm not careful it can make me feel like the slightest misstep or perceived insecurity that I may express and I'll be another BBW who hates their body. Rounded up and discounted because I don't fit into someone's ideal. It is an expectation that is entirely too much to live up to in my opinion.

Are we not all works in progress? I am not perfect. Period. But, I still am a goddess in my own way.

Damnit.

Sorry... Ms. Fascinita hit a hot button for me. :blush:


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## sweet&fat (Aug 19, 2009)

comaseason said:


> As for the other bolded point - I've been on Dims for only a short while but I've noticed that "Goddess" expectation (I'm sure it exists elsewhere - just haven't really seen it). *I find that the expectation of being "confident" and totally accepting of myself and my body as fat woman - well it feels to me pretty oppressive. If I'm not careful it can make me feel like the slightest misstep or perceived insecurity that I may express and I'll be another BBW who hates their body.* Rounded up and discounted because I don't fit into someone's ideal. It is an expectation that is entirely too much to live up to in my opinion.
> 
> Are we not all works in progress? I am not perfect. Period. But, I still am a goddess in my own way.



Absolutely- I remember feeling this especially keenly when I first joined dims. I've even heard FAs on dims state that a BBW who isn't "confident" in the hyperbolic sense that you're describing is just another "fat chick." Ick.


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## Keb (Aug 19, 2009)

I don't want to be a goddess. That idea actually makes me a little bit uncomfortable, to be honest. I'll "settle" for being someone's princess. (And yes, I like the Disney girls--but my princess ideal came from the classic A Little Princess, where the idea was to pretend in order to behave like your own ideal, even when it isn't easy to live up to your principles and expectations of yourself.) It's a nice pedestal but it isn't too high for me to reach--and if I fall I won't break anything (except whatever's under me). 

I think I do have high standards, and I wonder if they're too high. On the other hand, I've had a serious reminder of why standards are important; I decided to give a guy a chance on a second date, and then a few more, even though I told him at the beginning that his smoking was probably a deal breaker for me. (The probably only because he told me he would not smoke around me, since it bothered me.) It got to the point where I realized I really couldn't deal with the smoking anymore, or the feeling that he was prioritizing smoking over being with me (for example, he couldn't afford the gas to drive an hour and see me on my turf, but he could still go and buy a few packs of, as my friend put it, EVIL DEATH STICKS). I admit, I was a bit carried away by the exhileration of finally being desired, and I did have fun with him when he wasn't smoking. He even tried to keep it away from me on the second date...or the third wouldn't have happened at all. But it would have been so much easier to end it after the first date...easier on me, and easier on him. I knew from the beginning that it couldn't go anywhere so long as he continued to smoke; there's no way I could live with a smoker, because I really can't breathe around it. Yet I decided to see how it went...

I dunno. I have high standards but I don't think they're unreasonable. I was lucky enough to see a pretty good marriage in my parents' relationship, so I know that it's possible. I'm just beginning to doubt it's possible for me, in this particular day and age, to find what I'm looking for. I don't really care about chocolates and diamonds (though cheesecake and sparklies are nice)...mostly I want someone to cuddle with, build a family with, create traditions with, and face the future with. Somebody who can both support me and depend on me in various spheres. Someone who is willing to love me as an action verb (and not get too annoyed if I throw out a big word here and there--I am a teacher, after all). The traits I most desire are integrity, geekiness, responsibility, and liking me--a lot. (For compatibility reasons...no smoking. Also Christian, and American, and not a drug addict/alcholic. And yeah, I'd like him to be at least as tall as me. That's my shallow end speaking. I get tired of feeling like I'm bigger than everyone all the time.) But I could forgive most things on my "wants" list, I think, for someone who really loved me and cared about me. I'd like someone who'd love to dance with me...but if he really hates dancing, snuggles on the couch would be fine.

I do miss the snuggles with Mr. Smoker. They were quite pleasant. (Incidentally, he was a BHM.)


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## olwen (Aug 19, 2009)

I love the dialog going on here ladies. You have all made excellent points. I have a ton of respect for all of you. 

...I think for myself, since I didn't start dating in earnest till after I turned 30, I still kind of feel like I'm playing catch up. I just find it odd that I'm only just now figuring out this stuff in a way that really makes sense for me, and I really wondered how much of that had to do with being fat. I feel like all the responses from the women here validates some feeling I don't quite know how to express right now....Gives me a lot to think about.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Aug 20, 2009)

Everyone should have a basic core of what they want in a partner..If it sounds demanding to others then that is just to bad,because you will want what you want,no way around that....Same moral standards,no smoking,no cussing,Christianity,sexual preferences and so on and so on..It's when you get to the character flaws that you have to ask yourself if you are willing to accept them or not..Be it bad manners,bad hygiene,low self esteem,etc..Just do not jump head first into a relationship thinking this is the one and if I can just change a few things about them it will be bliss,that is not going to happen not unless the other person really wants to change..


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## thatgirl08 (Aug 20, 2009)

I sometimes wonder if my standards are too high.. I rarely find someone that I am interested in that is also interested in me, and when I do it seems to not take long at all before I "find" their flaws and can't stand them. I'm never 100% happy in a relationship.. I always seem to have this nagging at the back of my mind like, are you sure you're happy, are you sure he's good enough, etc. etc. I always break things off before I really give them a good try I think. 

I now find myself in by far, the happiest relationship of my life. I still doubt it sometimes but I think that's just my nature. I try to remind myself that no one is perfect and no relationship is 100% problem-free. 

As far as characteristics of a mate go, there are very few things that he/she must have/be and I don't think those are unreasonable (in college or went to college and/or has a good job, doesn't party too much, hasn't been arrested, intelligent, etc.) I have plenty of preferences but I make exceptions all the time.. it's all about the person as a whole, the complete package. I prefer thin, tall boys but I once dated someone who was roughly the same size as me and an inch shorter because we clicked on a lot of other levels. I love boys who enjoy the same music as me but my current boyfriend listens to reggae almost exclusively (nothing against reggae - it's alright, just not what I normally listen to) because there are way more important things about him that I like. 

In general, I don't think BBWs are too demanding when it comes to dating. Some may be, but I wouldn't say a higher percentage than of just all women as a whole or all people as a whole. Also, I'd like to point out that I've in the real world, as in non-Dims BBWs I've noticed the exact opposite, many girls stay with guys who don't meet what most people would consider basic qualifications of a potential mate (respectful, honest, doesn't cheat, etc.) because they feel like they won't find anyone else.


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## Tau (Aug 20, 2009)

I have a confession to make :blush: 

For years men who were not related to me were these terrifying, infuriating, delicious creatures I didn't have a hope in hell of understanding, enjoying or attracting in any possible way. And honestly, I don't think I'm quite over that feeling. The only men I knew were my brother and father - I went to an all girls convent school, lived in an all girls residence in university and now live with two female room-mates. When I was younger I never ever made an effort to meet guys outside of my journalism class mates - and those were forced on me because we had to do assignments together. My male friends are only online - the male people I socialise with are other people's friends.

This thread has really got me thinking hard about myself in relation to the opposite sex and I don't know, I got kinda worried LOL! It's like I thought I was sane and then woke up and found myself in a straitjacket... Yes I've had sex but I've had next to nothing in common with the people I've slept with and to be honest I think we found each other not terribly interesting outside of the sheets. I'm in love with a boy who lives on the other side of the planet - and I've begun wandering now if I'm only into him because he's far away and not real and can remain fantasy perfect in my head  

I know I've come a really long way from the days of feeling like a cooked tomatoe about to burst its skin when I was in the company of men I didn't know but clearly not far enough...Damn you Dims! All this introspection is giving me indigestion


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## mszwebs (Aug 20, 2009)

olwen said:


> ...Snipped...I think for myself, since I didn't start dating in earnest till after I turned 30, I still kind of feel like I'm playing catch up...Snipped...



^^^This^^^



Tau said:


> ...This thread has really got me thinking hard about myself in relation to the opposite sex and I don't know, I got kinda worried LOL! It's like I thought I was sane and then woke up and found myself in a straitjacket... Yes I've had sex but I've had next to nothing in common with the people I've slept with and to be honest I think we found each other not terribly interesting outside of the sheets. *I'm in love with a boy who lives on the other side of the planet - and I've begun wandering now if I'm only into him because he's far away and not real and can remain fantasy perfect in my head*



*sigh* ^^^This Too.^^^

Except in my case, I rarely HAD male influence growing up. My dad was in a car accident when I was two, and while I saw him for the next 17 years, he wasn't exactly in the position to be a dad. I had both grandpa's around, and some uncles, but none of them provided a male influence that made me 100% comfortable around me in certain situations.

Even now, if I go to a friend's house and meet their parents, I have a hard time not feeling dread when I meet their father. Men of a certain age start to scare me and make me uncomfortable, which is part of the reason I've always gone for younger guys. Once they hit my age or older, I have a mental block in place and have an EXTREMELY hard time getting past that.

As I've stated earlier in this thread, the internet has sort of been my best friend/ worst enemy when it comes to men. I've mixed myself up with quite the gaggle of interesting fellows, from all across the world... and I think that what Tau says above is very true for me.

In the past I chose to do that because they are far away. They're not a part of my everyday life and have no real influence...also I can only see the parts that they're willing to show me, so they remain perfect. That isn't to say that I would have been opposed to having them come visit, or what have you... just that I accepted their excuses more readily because the thought of ruining the fantasy was scary too.

lol I hate it when I see a post and I'm like OMG, I have to respond to it, and then I start typing and I have to question what the hell I'm talking about. Too bad... I'm submitting anyway lol


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## fatgirlflyin (Aug 20, 2009)

thatgirl08 said:


> I sometimes wonder if my standards are too high.. I rarely find someone that I am interested in that is also interested in me, and when I do it seems to not take long at all before I "find" their flaws and can't stand them. I'm never 100% happy in a relationship.. I always seem to have this nagging at the back of my mind like, are you sure you're happy, are you sure he's good enough, etc. etc. I always break things off before I really give them a good try I think.




Gah! You are so gonna hate me for saying this and PLEASE don't take it the wrong way.

You are young, you are still learning about yourself and growing as a person. It makes sense that you'd not be 100% happy in a relationship because truly deep down what you want in a relationship is probably changing (even if you don't notice it) which each new thing you learn about who you are as an adult woman. 

One of the biggest mistakes I made when I was your age, (I was 19, you're 18 right? close enough) was getting married. I had NO business getting married that young. I thought I loved the guy, thought he loved me, and maybe in our own fucked up way we did love each other but the relationship did not work out. We both had a lot of growing up to do, lots to learn about ourselves and the world around us. Eventually we realized that we just weren't right for each other, and we went our separate ways. I got my kids from the marriage and that's about the only good thing that came from it, that and what I learned about myself in the process. I wouldn't give my kids up for anything in the world, I love them with all my heart. But if by some freak of nature thing I got to do it all over again and I knew then what I know now? I wouldn't have got married. I would have dated lots of boys and taken that time and practice to learn about what I really wanted and needed out of a relationship.


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## Tooz (Aug 20, 2009)

msbard90 said:


> I do have particularily high standards for a mate... He has to be not only good looking, but smart, have a good head on his shoulders, but those shoulders better be ready for me to cry on them. He can't play video games or be selfish in any way. He pretty much has to follow me around all day holding on to my hips, kissing my neck and whispering sweet nothings into my ear. Not only that, he should be one to put food on the table and be able to support me completely, even though I'll insist he doesn't....



Don't take this the wrong way, but I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not.


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## StarWitness (Aug 20, 2009)

I've been musing about this subject since I last replied. Maybe, in addition to seriously re-assessing what qualities we want in a partner, we need to re-assess what role a romantic relationship plays in our lives, and what we expect it to do for us. Just a thought.


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## msbard90 (Aug 20, 2009)

Tooz said:


> Don't take this the wrong way, but I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not.



haha the funny part is that i'm not lol  Which may prove the point that I have an unrealistic expectation of what the perfect man is!


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## ashmamma84 (Aug 20, 2009)

StarWitness said:


> I've been musing about this subject since I last replied. Maybe, in addition to seriously re-assessing what qualities we want in a partner, we need to re-assess what role a romantic relationship plays in our lives, and what we expect it to do for us. Just a thought.



Yes.

I honestly think so many women are truly lonely. Some of those women are in relationships and some are not. Some of us really hate being single because we think it says something negative about us or it could be that we don't like being in the company of ourselves much so having someone else to focus on kinda puts a bandage on that gaping wound. Alot of women think that once they're in a relationship magically they'll become happy or a big source of their discomfort will disappear. I don't think we do our homework when it comes to getting to know ourselves and figuring out what we really want. A romantic relationship isn't a cure all or salve for our issues. I think that's why when things don't work out or when idealized versions of our partners come crashing down, we find ourselves so upset. I know some women who think once they find a partner their lives will finally begin and honestly, I feel sorry for them. Its a grave mistake to put that much stock into a relationship like that and frankly, I'd never want to have to live up to being my partner's everything. It would only be a set up for failure and huge disappointments. Growing and learning has taught me that even if I didn't have my partnership, I can and do derive pleasure from the other close relationships I have with friends and family. 

My relationship gives me a great deal of satisfaction because its something I work at everyday. I don't think of my partner as my knight in shining armor or any of that. We share a life together, but we still make an effort to keep pieces of our individualism in tact. And its worked for us.


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## ABellyGirl (Aug 20, 2009)

I worry more that women are demanding less when starting a relationship. 

I mean is it so bad to ask that a man has good hygiene, good morals (honesty, faithfulness, kindness), a job, and is able to balance his checkbook? 

I met my (now separated) partner online. He told me many many things that were untrue about him which I inconveniently found out after he moved himself into my life. Turns out, he never learned to drive, did not know how to write a check, and his idea of a good time is spending all day in front of a computer.

Even if the sex is good. Even if he works at it; sex won't always be as interesting as it was those first few months. All those exceptions you make for good sex or animal attraction will become glaring as you settle into a relationship.

SO if you find yourself saying in your mind, "Oh so he really doesn't like _____" or "He said he wasn't picky, but he won't eat this, this, this, this, and this." And then when you find yourself making excuses for his behavior, his lack of a job, or his laziness, SLOW DOWN and THINK.

I would make a list of your absolute "NOs!" and stick to them. Be demanding when it comes to your self-preservation. And do it before he is moving into your house. :doh:


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## OneHauteMama (Aug 20, 2009)

I've given this topic some thought. I don't think I'm a very demanding person in general. My wants are simple. I don't much care about money or luxury or anything like that. I want someone who is going to love me for the person I am and not be afraid to tell me when I've done something to annoy him. Don't be afraid to be honest with me about things. I'm a big girl, I won't break. I don't want to be loved FOR my weight, and I don't want to be loved DESPITE it. I want to be accepted as a total package...the weight may or may not fluctuate. 

I think one of my biggest "demands" is that my man stand up for me...I've never had that. 

l just want to be treated with the same respect and courtesy that I treat the person I'm with. Do things with me, don't just treat me like a fucking houseplant and let me dehydrate.


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## jewels_mystery (Aug 20, 2009)

OneHauteMama said:


> I've given this topic some thought. I don't think I'm a very demanding person in general. My wants are simple. I don't much care about money or luxury or anything like that. I want someone who is going to love me for the person I am and not be afraid to tell me when I've done something to annoy him. Don't be afraid to be honest with me about things. I'm a big girl, I won't break. I don't want to be loved FOR my weight, and I don't want to be loved DESPITE it. I want to be accepted as a total package...the weight may or may not fluctuate.
> 
> I think one of my biggest "demands" is that my man stand up for me...I've never had that.
> 
> l just want to be treated with the same respect and courtesy that I treat the person I'm with. Do things with me, don't just treat me like a fucking houseplant and let me dehydrate.



Amen Sista!!


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## thatgirl08 (Aug 20, 2009)

fatgirlflyin said:


> Gah! You are so gonna hate me for saying this and PLEASE don't take it the wrong way.
> 
> You are young, you are still learning about yourself and growing as a person. It makes sense that you'd not be 100% happy in a relationship because truly deep down what you want in a relationship is probably changing (even if you don't notice it) which each new thing you learn about who you are as an adult woman.
> 
> One of the biggest mistakes I made when I was your age, (I was 19, you're 18 right? close enough) was getting married. I had NO business getting married that young. I thought I loved the guy, thought he loved me, and maybe in our own fucked up way we did love each other but the relationship did not work out. We both had a lot of growing up to do, lots to learn about ourselves and the world around us. Eventually we realized that we just weren't right for each other, and we went our separate ways. I got my kids from the marriage and that's about the only good thing that came from it, that and what I learned about myself in the process. I wouldn't give my kids up for anything in the world, I love them with all my heart. But if by some freak of nature thing I got to do it all over again and I knew then what I know now? I wouldn't have got married. I would have dated lots of boys and taken that time and practice to learn about what I really wanted and needed out of a relationship.



No, I think you're completely right. That's why although it is very tempting to rush things with my boyfriend, I try not to.


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## Tracyarts (Aug 20, 2009)

" I think the hullaballoo about the supposed lack of fat women who want to be liked as fat women is just that. I think, too, that when fat women ask to be desired as more than fat objects of lust -- to be desired as real women, for "all" they are -- this wish gets somehow interpreted as "oh, she must not want people to like her body." "

That's my opinon on it. 

If the sole basis of somebody's attraction to me hinges on one physical attribute, that's just not good enough for me to consider entering into a relationship with them. 

It's the tunnel vision of one very specific deal maker or breaker that I have a problem with. Because people change. Bodies change. Lives change. 

If my partner is only attracted to, aroused by, and satisfied with something I no longer have or with something that is causing me pain and suffering, where does that leave our relationship? I've seen that scenario play out in real life and have seen the anguish other women have gone through in that situation. I have no desire to place myself in that position. So, I choose not to get involved with anybody who has any very narrow preferences for physical attributes.

Doesn't mean I don't like myself. Doesn't mean my relationships are in any way inferior. It just means that having a partner who is exclusively attracted to one physical attribute, which can change by choice or chance, is not a gamble I wish to take. 

Tracy


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## OneHauteMama (Aug 20, 2009)

fatgirlflyin said:


> One of the biggest mistakes I made when I was your age, (I was 19, you're 18 right? close enough) was getting married. I had NO business getting married that young. I thought I loved the guy, thought he loved me, and maybe in our own fucked up way we did love each other but the relationship did not work out. We both had a lot of growing up to do, lots to learn about ourselves and the world around us. Eventually we realized that we just weren't right for each other, and we went our separate ways. I got my kids from the marriage and that's about the only good thing that came from it, that and what I learned about myself in the process. I wouldn't give my kids up for anything in the world, I love them with all my heart. But if by some freak of nature thing I got to do it all over again and I knew then what I know now? I wouldn't have got married. I would have dated lots of boys and taken that time and practice to learn about what I really wanted and needed out of a relationship.





I could have written that...word-for-freakin-word.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Aug 20, 2009)

I'll probably get tomatoes thrown at me for this but ahead I plow! I do understand your fears and I use to have them but..

Tau,Mszwebs you both need to get off line and into the real world..Get out there and talk to men,you don't have to bed them or even date them..Just be friendly,talk to them and it will help get your over your fears of them..The more you are around men the easier it will be for you to understand them and yourselves..The more men you talk to,the easier it will be for you to gauge what type of man you truly want..I know having online friends is great but sometimes you need to have a real face to face with someone..Personally I think talking to older men helps a lot,someone in their 40's or maybe early 50's..

I'll admit I do not go as much as I use to..I stay at home more then what I need to but with my medical problems I am not always a nice person to be around...Hell I haven't had a date in years but that is a whole different story..


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## Carrie (Aug 20, 2009)

I think there's a big difference between "must have"s and "would like"s in terms of what we look for in a partner/mate/whatever term that makes me sound like a National Geographic special narrator, and we - people in general, not just fatties - frequently inadvertently blur that line. It's an important distinction, though. I'm 5'11", so I _would like_ someone around my height or taller. But when I stop and think about how many great guys I'd be ruling out by having some sillyish (to me) height requirement, I'm reminded that that's a would like, not a must have, and fairly unimportant in the grand scheme of things. It's just not that important to me (though I respect it being important to others. Everyone has their thing). I also would like a guy who can fix things/work with his hands and is musically talented, both being odd little kinks of mine, but if a guy came along who just felt right, I'd make do with home improvement shows, my iPod, and be blissfully happy with my non-handy, musically inept short dude who knows how to make me smile. 

So for me, the list of true must-haves is non-negotiable, but quite short. (Yet somehow I remain single, so take all of this with a considerable grain of salt). :blush:


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## OneHauteMama (Aug 20, 2009)

> So for me, the list of true must-haves is non-negotiable, but quite short.



Agreed...the physical attributes and certain personality traits and interests are not so important as emotional stability and certain other personality traits. I can take a tone-deaf guy over a musician easily...but I can't take one who will take his mother's side over mine...


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## OneHauteMama (Aug 20, 2009)

I, personally NEED to be loved, touched, caressed, kissed, and just plain SHOWN that I am loved and that he is attracted to me. Slap my ass, pinch it, come up behind me and put your arms around me...all that stuff. Just let me KNOW in a physical way...it means much more to me than just "I love you".


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## fatgirlflyin (Aug 20, 2009)

Carrie said:


> I'm 5'11", so I _would like_ someone around my height or taller. But when I stop and think about how many great guys I'd be ruling out by having some sillyish (to me) height requirement, I'm reminded that that's a would like, not a must have, and fairly unimportant in the grand scheme of things.




I'm the same height and that was a conclusion I came to very early in life as I was always taller than most men/boys that I met. My ex-husband is 5'2"  and my current partner is 5'9".


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## Carrie (Aug 20, 2009)

OneHauteMama said:


> Agreed...the physical attributes and certain personality traits and interests are not so important as emotional stability and certain other personality traits. I can take a tone-deaf guy over a musician easily...but I can't take one who will take his mother's side over mine...


Bingo. You're brilliant, and not only because you agree with me. 


fatgirlflyin said:


> I'm the same height and that was a conclusion I came to very early in life as I was always taller than most men/boys that I met. My ex-husband is 5'2"  and my current partner is 5'9".


Yep, same here! When I was in high school and such the height thing seemed terribly important, and then my ex-husband came along, who was 5'8". It was funny, the only time I _ever_ noticed the height difference between us was in photos or if we stood together in front of a mirror. And even then, my reaction was always, "whoa, I'm tall!", not "whoa, he's short!". But then, that's my usual reaction to seeing myself next to just about anyone.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Aug 20, 2009)

StarWitness said:


> Personally, I've not been demanding enough. I spent way too long in a problematic relationship; it wasn't a nightmare-- we had some good times, and we loved each other-- but I was unhappy. And the sad part was that I _resigned myself_ to that unhappiness, because I just assumed that nobody else would love me like he did (willfully ignoring all the emotionally toxic bullshit that went on, of course). It's shocking how happy I've been since we broke up.
> 
> I think I'm more discriminating now, but also what I'm looking for (and what I've learned to avoid) has changed-- like hey, I learned that it's important to make sure he respects me as an equal! How 'bout that.



Bingo.....I love StarWitness....this woman says so much truth...or the truth as I know it anyway. :bow: 

I want to tell you that I have "never been picky"....but I look back and that's not really true. I just avoided "vanilla" or rather, what I saw to be, "too good for me and probably will always look down on me and never understand me anyway". 
Men from backgrounds similar to mine....seemed to always be my first criteria. They are "safe" you know.....no need to explain things, no need to feel misunderstood......and I always thought they felt the same way. 

I wasn't "picky"...but did have an agenda as far as what he MUST be for me to feel comfortable....and I just let the rest fall into place. That has always been easy for me.....and always landed me in relationships. Bad ones....but they were amazingly easy to find. 

That knowledge has me analyzing how I am now. Funny, I still wouldn't call myself "picky" but rather "wiser". 
I am as "open" as I ever was......just know now what it is that I DON'T want....and won't tolerate. Finding someone to trust has gotten harder ...because I can smell the shit coming a mile away now. I don't think of myself as bitter/hurt/angry....just don't feel the compulsion or even the need to rush anymore. There are fates....and relationships...much worse than being alone can ever be. 
Dating was easier when I was younger and more optimistic....but life is easier now that I watch for the warning signs. 

I don't know.....I think a person NEEDS a set of standards....and I don't judge, or even feel like I could judge, someone else's requirements. We all want what we want....the menfolk don't always seem to be on the same page though. That seems like more of a problem than having standards, IMO.


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## Keb (Aug 20, 2009)

I dunno, when it comes to relationships I feel kind of like I'm trying to play monopoly on a chess board. Like I don't know the rules, or the rules I do know aren't the ones anyone else is playing by. 

It probably doesn't help that I'm 29 and going through relationship stuff most people do when they're 14.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Aug 20, 2009)

Keb said:


> I dunno, when it comes to relationships I feel kind of like I'm trying to play monopoly on a chess board. Like I don't know the rules, or the rules I do know aren't the ones anyone else is playing by.
> 
> It probably doesn't help that I'm 29 and going through relationship stuff most people do when they're 14.



I never understood "rules" myself........I think you and your partner get to make up your own rules in your own relationships. Just how I see it.....


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## fatgirlflyin (Aug 20, 2009)

Keb said:


> I dunno, when it comes to relationships I feel kind of like I'm trying to play monopoly on a chess board. Like I don't know the rules, or the rules I do know aren't the ones anyone else is playing by.
> 
> It probably doesn't help that I'm 29 and going through relationship stuff most people do when they're 14.




I don't think there are any rules when it comes to dating. No two relationships are alike. So long as you are enjoying yourself and the person you are with is treating you with the dignity and respect that you deserve then who's to say you're doing something wrong.


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## mszwebs (Aug 20, 2009)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> I'll probably get tomatoes thrown at me for this but ahead I plow! I do understand your fears and I use to have them but..
> 
> Tau,Mszwebs you both need to get off line and into the real world..Get out there and talk to men,you don't have to bed them or even date them..Just be friendly,talk to them and it will help get your over your fears of them..The more you are around men the easier it will be for you to understand them and yourselves..The more men you talk to,the easier it will be for you to gauge what type of man you truly want..I know having online friends is great but sometimes you need to have a real face to face with someone..Personally I think talking to older men helps a lot,someone in their 40's or maybe early 50's..
> 
> I'll admit I do not go as much as I use to..I stay at home more then what I need to but with my medical problems I am not always a nice person to be around...Hell I haven't had a date in years but that is a whole different story..



lol No tomatoes. 

I understand what you're saying, but its literally NOT that easy.

I don't drive. I don't live an an area where there is great public transportation...and even if there was, the only place I could go is to a bar. Believe me, I WANT to go out lol. Its just not really feasible.

I did go to a BBW dance not that long ago, with a friend and I was convinced to dance with a guy that was WAY outside of my normal "type" (except for the age thing) and I survived... I just have to figure out a way to be around more of the experiences so that I can be open to taking them as they come.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Aug 20, 2009)

Hugss to you and Thank You for no tomatoes! 

I understand completely and I am like you,I do not want to go to a bar and find a guy..First off I don't drink, been there done that when I was young..Well since the situation is as you described then I say we need to load up a bus of young men and send them to you! Easiest way to pick and choose then..*giggles*


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## TraciJo67 (Aug 20, 2009)

mszwebs said:


> lol No tomatoes.
> 
> I understand what you're saying, but its literally NOT that easy.
> 
> ...



Mszwebs, I think that this guy is still single. With the interwebz, the world is at your fingertips. Get to strollin'! 

Actually, I can understand what you are saying. Just out of curiosity, how far are you from a larger city? Have you done the e-harmony and craigs list and whatever-other-dating-sites-are-out-there thing?


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## kayrae (Aug 21, 2009)

I specifically dislike this online torture that I'm putting myself through. Sometimes I feel like I'm having a relationship with my cell phone. I hate long distance relationships and I do not dig feeling like I'm running after someone who's so hard to read. I don't think it's too demanding for wanting some kind of reassurance that he's for real, however way he can prove it to me.

Otherwise... well, I shouldn't waste my time.


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## StarWitness (Aug 21, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Bingo.....I love StarWitness....this woman says so much truth...or the truth as I know it anyway. :bow:



Why thank you! :blush: Considering I wasted the first half of my twenties on a guy who was engaged to someone else a week and a half after I moved out of our apartment, I should hope that I at least have _some_ knowledge to show for the experience.  But hey, when's the last time you learned something profound about life from being perfectly content?


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## olwen (Aug 21, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I never understood "rules" myself........I think you and your partner get to make up your own rules in your own relationships. Just how I see it.....





fatgirlflyin said:


> I don't think there are any rules when it comes to dating. No two relationships are alike. So long as you are enjoying yourself and the person you are with is treating you with the dignity and respect that you deserve then who's to say you're doing something wrong.



I dunno about there not being rules. Seems there are unspoken rules to me. True one can choose to ignore those rules or modify them if they like, but then that cause problems too if the people involved don't understand the unspoken rules or how they are being changed. This is part of why dating is difficult. Then when you are fat there are another set of rules on top of that which are all designed to gauge your level of self-confidence, or readiness in the bedroom, which is just a ridiculous game.

I hate games, and that is one area where I don't think I'm asking too much. I have neither the time nor the energy for games.


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## mszwebs (Aug 21, 2009)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> Hugss to you and Thank You for no tomatoes!
> 
> I understand completely and I am like you,I do not want to go to a bar and find a guy..First off I don't drink, been there done that when I was young..Well since the situation is as you described then I say we need to load up a bus of young men and send them to you! Easiest way to pick and choose then..*giggles*



haha Yes Please!!



TraciJo67 said:


> Mszwebs, I think that this guy is still single. With the interwebz, the world is at your fingertips. Get to strollin'!
> 
> Actually, I can understand what you are saying. Just out of curiosity, how far are you from a larger city? Have you done the e-harmony and craigs list and whatever-other-dating-sites-are-out-there thing?



Traci - 



And I'm about 40 minutes from Milwaukee, about the same distance from Madison (which is smaller than Milwaukee, but the second biggest city in WI, I believe) and about 90 minutes from Chicago.

And I have done most of the dating/find a match sites out there...usually I get the guys lookin for a booty call, even though I clearly state that I'm NOT looking for one lol.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Aug 21, 2009)

olwen said:


> I dunno about there not being rules. Seems there are unspoken rules to me. True one can choose to ignore those rules or modify them if they like, but then that cause problems too if the people involved don't understand the unspoken rules or how they are being changed. This is part of why dating is difficult. Then when you are fat there are another set of rules on top of that which are all designed to gauge your level of self-confidence, or readiness in the bedroom, which is just a ridiculous game.
> 
> I hate games, and that is one area where I don't think I'm asking too much. I have neither the time nor the energy for games.



I am not sure I would call them rules,more preferences..You have these preferences of what you want to do on a date or where you want to go and that is totally natural..The way I see it,you really do not want to go some place that makes you totally uncomfortable or some place you can't enjoy yourself..If you have been dating a while and your date suggests something you haven't done before then I think you should be open to suggestions..

When *you* are ready for sex with your partner then it will come easily...It will seem to flow from cuddling on the couch to having fun in the bedroom..If *you* feel pressured to have sex with your partner to soon then maybe they are not the right person for you...Like I said to me it is all about personal preferences..JMO


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## fatgirlflyin (Aug 21, 2009)

olwen said:


> I dunno about there not being rules. Seems there are unspoken rules to me. True one can choose to ignore those rules or modify them if they like, but then that cause problems too if the people involved don't understand the unspoken rules or how they are being changed.




Like what unspoken rules? Are you talking about how long to wait before calling a guy back? How many dates to go on before having sex with a guy?

Those aren't rules, that's just bullshit that other women put out there to keep other women feeling bad. Cuz that's what we do as women, we keep each other down... 

You do you. Whatever works for you and the person you are dating, those are your rules. If you had a really good 1st date and you don't want to wait for the guy to call you, then you call him. There isn't anything out there saying you can't, or shouldn't. If he chooses not to date you because you called him, well then he's not someone who's very secure in his masculinity and not someone I'd want to date! 

Its the idea of rules/unspoken rules that sell so many self help books, copies of vogue, and seminar seats. They just don't really exist.


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## Tracyarts (Aug 21, 2009)

" Those aren't rules, that's just bullshit that other women put out there to keep other women feeling bad. Cuz that's what we do as women, we keep each other down... "

Oh speaking of female bullshit, here's a good one. 

I watched what seemed to be a happy and stable relationship between a male friend of mine and his girlfriend crash and burn when her little clique of galpals convinced her that since he would not take her calls (just to talk or to make dinner/date plans) while he was at work, would not respond to her texts (again, nothing important, just making small talk) while he was in class, and insisted on maintaining friendships outside of his relationship with her (strictly platonic ones with guy friends); that meant he was "just not that into her" anymore and she needed to leave him and move on, because she deserved better (meaning a man who would put her before everything else in his life). She gave him the ultimatum of put her first and foremost or it's over. I really tried to talk her out of it. She admitted to me that she was completely happy and content with him and their relationship until her friends "opened her eyes" to the fact that he was not giving her the level of attention that would prove that he was "completely into her" and pointed out how she was "settling" for less than she deserved by staying with him. So, she threw down the ultimatum and he said she was being irrational. She said that it doesn't matter, because if he was truly that into her, he would do whatever she needed him to do to prove it to her. So, they broke up. Now she thinks he is just another scummy male, and he thinks she is just another psycho female. And her friends have her totally convinced that they were right about him all along. He's just shell-shocked at how it went so bad so fast. 

Tracy


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## BubbleButtBabe (Aug 21, 2009)

Tracy,I feel sorry for her..She ruined what sounded like a good relationship just because her friends thought she wasn't being treated like a princess..You didn't say how old she is but I am guessing she is pretty young..When she is older she will look back and realized she gave up a good thing over something very petty..


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## OneHauteMama (Aug 21, 2009)

I think I know what the problem is with my past relationships...my "picker" is broken. I've made some pretty shitty choices in men, simply because I was desperate to be loved. I found someone who was interested, but didn't give much thought to how he wasn't right for me. I found someone who was just as desperate as I was and married him. Then I found someone that I STILL can't figure out. 

Like I said...my Picker is broken...I need to fix that FIRST lol.


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## Tracyarts (Aug 21, 2009)

They're in their mid-twenties, but I believe the girlfriend was immature for her age and the boyfriend was mature for his age.


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## TallFatSue (Aug 21, 2009)

olwen said:


> I hear things like I want a man who wants me for me - a guy who wants me despite my fat, I'm never sure if this is a rejection of one's size or an acknowledgment of it.





Fascinita said:


> I think the hullaballoo about the supposed lack of fat women who want to be liked as fat women is just that. I think, too, that when fat women ask to be desired as more than fat objects of lust -- to be desired as real women, for "all" they are -- this wish gets somehow interpreted as "oh, she must not want people to like her body." And this, I think, is grounded in a deeply rooted kind of oppression that's exerted on fat women...


I agree it's hullaballoo, but methinx this is grounded in something much simpler. No matter what the topic, I've often observed that when someone states one viewpoint, many people automatically assume that it negates other viewpoints, but it ain't necessarily so. When I was dating in the goofy 1970s, I did indeed want a man who wanted me for me, I wanted to be desired for all of who I was. In other words, a man who wanted me first AND wanted my fat second. To my delight, that's exactly what happened. Wellll, he didn't exactly want my fat, but he decided that if it was part of my package, he would try to handle it. Before long, he was handling my fat as often as possible. :smitten:



msbard90 said:


> I do have particularily high standards for a mate... He has to be not only good looking, but smart, have a good head on his shoulders, but those shoulders better be ready for me to cry on them. He can't play video games or be selfish in any way. He pretty much has to follow me around all day holding on to my hips, kissing my neck and whispering sweet nothings into my ear. Not only that, he should be one to put food on the table and be able to support me completely, even though I'll insist he doesn't.... I know that these things are impossible, and even though I love my boyfriend of 2 and a half years to pieces, I still think of my prerequesites for the perfect mate. But I guess we all have that extremely out of reach pedestal that we hope one day prince charming will reach.


I don't think I really knew what I was looking for in a man when I was dating. Obviously I wanted someone who was responsible and compatible, but I pretty much kept an open mind. If I found Mr. Right, then wonderful; if I didn't, well at least I would meet some interesting men on my road to becoming an spinster. Evidently an open mind was the way to go, because my Mr. Right fell into my lap disguised as Mr. Wrong. Had each of us placed an order for our idea mates in a factory, it would not have been each other by any stretch of the imagination. Thank goodness we were both open-minded enough and perceptive enough to recognize gold or at least silver when we stumbled onto each other.

Reading this made me laugh about my sweetie when we first met. Good looking? Let's just say he was a textbook engineering dork, although he did improve considerably after I persuaded him to upgrade his glasses, wash his hair every day and never ever wear a leisure suit. As an engineer with great earning potential, he did have that certain CHA-CHING factor who would be able to support me as he would any empress, but I also made it clear I wanted a career too. He did follow me around all day, but mostly to stare at my big fat ass and marvel that a woman like me could function so well with so much fat bouncing around (mmmm, bouncing around :smitten: ). He did have his romantic streak, of sorts, and as for whispering sweet nothings into my ear, well, once we sat on a beach watching a gorgeous sunset, and he began to explain the stellar nucleosynthesis which made it all possible. Really, Art? Hydrogen is converted into helium and heavier elements, with the creation of energy? Zzzzz.... _Stay awake, Sue, he's trying to make small talk the only way he knows how!_ I pretended to be interested, and soon I realized that here was a guy who could probably fix anything that was broken around the house. And evidently he realized that I was the very heavy element he was looking for in his life, so we began to create a little energy of our own. That's me, Suzy Isotope. 



Tracyarts said:


> She admitted to me that she was completely happy and content with him and their relationship until her friends "opened her eyes" to the fact that he was not giving her the level of attention that would prove that he was "completely into her" and pointed out how she was "settling" for less than she deserved by staying with him.


Oh we had to deal with our own naysayers too. Art told me his friends kept asking him what he could possibly see in me because I was so fat. Finally he turned it around and asked them, "You tell me. What do you look for in a girl, or doesn't it matter if she's not fat?" Art told me that this was one of many reasons that converted him from tolerating my fat to learning to love it. So methinx his idiotic friends doth more than they'll ever know. 

Well I guess what I'm saying is we can make all the plans in the world, and try to lay some ground rules, but we also need to be flexible and recognize potential where we least expect to find it. That often-contradictory combination of level-headedness and calculated risk is a delicate balancing act, but it is possible and it can reap major dividends.


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## NemoVolo (Aug 21, 2009)

I don't think I'm too demanding, and I know that sometimes I have been in the mindset that I'd say yes to the first guy to ask me out, but in reality I'm too stubborn. I want to be liked for more than just my weight, but hell yeah he needs to like it too, because it sure as hell isn't going anywhere anytime soon. As long as he's taller than me (which at 5'2" isn't hard to find), is physically attractive to me (and I like sizes from underweight to overweight), intelligent, monogamous, honest, and treats me with the equal respect I give him, then I'm good. Sure, I have my "dream" guys, but I'm flexible. I've crushed hard on a guy that was 5'11, 140 lbs, had his own business. On the flipside, I've also liked a guy that was 5'6ish, 210 lbs, and going through culinary school. Or the 6'1, skinny, architect. So far, though, I've yet to find a guy who thought of me as more than rebound-material, or didn't end up asking out someone else because dating her would be more convenient (doesn't help she's skinny as a rail, either). 

I've tried to resolve myself to the idea of being alone, just so the perpetual rejection doesn't hurt as much, but it doesn't dash the hopes. I'm not sure what hurts most, the hope, or the acceptance. Meh, I'm rambling. ^^;


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## olwen (Aug 22, 2009)

Tracyarts said:


> " Those aren't rules, that's just bullshit that other women put out there to keep other women feeling bad. Cuz that's what we do as women, we keep each other down... "
> 
> Oh speaking of female bullshit, here's a good one.
> 
> ...



This is exactly what I mean by unspoken rules...somehow these get spread around and then people start operating by them. I feel it's all games. It took me a year of dating to figure out all of that. 

Another example are the kinds of questions guys ask to try and figure out where your head is at, like "why are you still single?" I really really hate that question. The ones I've gone on first dates with all seem to hinge the future with you on how you answer that question, which is stupid to me. I finally figured out how to answer it, without answering it by saying I haven't found the right guy yet, which is true. The answer I gave initially was, well "I'm fat. It's hard meeting guys when you are fat." The guy invariably answers with something like, "But don't you like yourself?"  

Then I would wonder how it is that guys who dates fat girls don't understand that the dating pool is very limited when you are fat? It's a statement of fact, no more, no less, yet some guys think you are being down on yourself. Like why would they just jump to the conclusion that you must not like yourself if you say that most people don't want to date fat people? That seems obvious to me. Seems like the assumption they make is some sort of unspoken rule nobody told me about that I had to figure out. It's a dumb game question. I hate that question.

Obviously too, if some guy doesn't pay attention to what I say or how I carry myself and just assumes I just must have self-esteem issues because I am fat, then that's not the guy for me and I move on. It's annoying.


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## Tania (Aug 22, 2009)

olwen said:


> Then I would wonder how it is that guys who dates fat girls don't understand that the dating pool is very limited when you are fat? It's a statement of fact, no more, no less, yet some guys think you are being down on yourself. Like why would they just jump to the conclusion that you must not like yourself if you say that most people don't want to date fat people? That seems obvious to me. Seems like the assumption they make is some sort of unspoken rule nobody told me about that I had to figure out. It's a dumb game question. I hate that question.
> 
> Obviously too, if some guy doesn't pay attention to what I say or how I carry myself and just assumes I just must have self-esteem issues because I am fat, then that's not the guy for me and I move on. It's annoying.



I think that passing judgement is a security blanket thing for a lot of people. If they can find your "weaknesses," they can feel superior or in control or whatever. 

Further, I think quite a few guys are supremely lazy when it comes to relationships. I'm sure the "OMG YOU'RE NOT CONFIDENT!" bullshit is usually another excuse to put off having to make important decisions/create happiness/accept other human beings/work at life.


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## Keb (Aug 22, 2009)

I think most people are scared of relationships, as much as they want and need them. We've all grown up seeing too many people in our lives hurt by things like divorce, so it makes us afraid to commit to the wrong person. And while, yes, there are a lot of people out there who are wrong for any given person, there are probably a lot who could be right, too. 

I think we're also overwhelmed by choices (maybe not us BBWs specifically, but as human beings in general). You sit there and do the math and say, okay, there's 6 billion people on the planet, and probably a third are too young, probably a third are too old or taken, and half are the wrong sex (unless you're bi). That's still a billion people to weed through, looking for the one perfect person who will complement you properly. It's less astronomical when you narrow it down to say the 300 million inhabitants of the US (which in my case may be more practical than assuming every man in China is a possibility), but it's still a lot of people.

I don't think it was possible to think like that in the little towns and villages the most of our ancestors inhabited. With fewer choices, perhaps it was easier to pair up, because it wasn't possible to compare the twelve or so eligible persons of the appropriate age and sex in your particular group with thousands, or millions, of others. It was even more unlikely that those people were comparing them with some of the greatest beauties (airbrushed and all) in the world, the way we do now. 

I suppose a bigger dating pool is by and large a good thing, since you're more likely to find someone in that pool who is a very good match for you instead of just okay. But I think it also makes it much harder to find someone, and leaves us feeling constantly like we could do better...or like we deserve to be rejected for the better ones we see around us as competition.


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## butch (Aug 23, 2009)

Maybe this is why I've been doing it wrong all my life, but I don't think of meeting romantic partners any different than I would meeting non-romantic partners. So, I'd ask (or not ask) the same questions to both types of people, and those questions would never be of the 'why are you still single' or anything of that matter. 

I'm pretty good at asking questions to find out lots of things about people without being intrusive, a busybody, what have you. Isn't getting to know someone the best way to fall in love, anyway?

Then again, if I'm really physically attracted by someone in real life (as opposed to online) I can't talk to them to save my life, so take all this with a salt lick sized grain of salt.


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## olwen (Aug 23, 2009)

Tania said:


> I think that passing judgement is a security blanket thing for a lot of people. If they can find your "weaknesses," they can feel superior or in control or whatever.
> 
> Further, I think quite a few guys are supremely lazy when it comes to relationships. I'm sure the "OMG YOU'RE NOT CONFIDENT!" bullshit is usually another excuse to put off having to make important decisions/create happiness/accept other human beings/work at life.



You may have a point there. I just have to wonder tho how much this confidence issue has to do with the men being FAs. If they claim to always be dealing with fat women who don't have the confidence they look for, then it does make sense that they would jump to that conclusion, but then it makes me think that well if they are jumping to that conclusion, then what if those guys wouldn't actually know a confident fat women from a hole in the head? Either way I'm glad those dates never turned into second dates. Cause who needs the aggravation. It also made me question whether or not I have actually been as confident as I thought I was. I've come to the conclusion that I am as confident as I need to be in social situations. If some guy is going to make negative assumptions about me because of my weight - even if he claims to be "for the cause" then that's not someone I want to be dealing with. I don't think that is a high standard either.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Aug 23, 2009)

olwen said:


> You may have a point there. I just have to wonder tho how much this confidence issue has to do with the men being FAs. If they claim to always be dealing with fat women who don't have the confidence they look for, then it does make sense that they would jump to that conclusion, but then it makes me think that well if they are jumping to that conclusion, then what if those guys wouldn't actually know a confident fat women from a hole in the head? Either way I'm glad those dates never turned into second dates. Cause who needs the aggravation. It also made me question whether or not I have actually been as confident as I thought I was. I've come to the conclusion that I am as confident as I need to be in social situations. *If some guy is going to make negative assumptions about me because of my weight - even if he claims to be "for the cause" then that's not someone I want to be dealing with. I don't think that is a high standard either*.



Nope, that's just common sense, IMO. You have to look out for and love yourself FIRST or any relationship won't be laid on the proper foundation.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Aug 23, 2009)

butch said:


> *Maybe this is why I've been doing it wrong all my life, but I don't think of meeting romantic partners any different than I would meeting non-romantic partners. * So, I'd ask (or not ask) the same questions to both types of people, and those questions would never be of the 'why are you still single' or anything of that matter.
> 
> I'm pretty good at asking questions to find out lots of things about people without being intrusive, a busybody, what have you. Isn't getting to know someone the best way to fall in love, anyway?
> 
> Then again, if I'm really physically attracted by someone in real life (as opposed to online) I can't talk to them to save my life, so take all this with a salt lick sized grain of salt.



I met my ex-husband by chance. We started as friends, even though he had asked me out in the beginning (I declined). The friendship turned into something more later on. It was easier to trust him because he had been my friend, to be totally honest. 

I think that both parties are more relaxed and less stressed if you approach things in an easy going kind of way....what you want to know about a potential partner can most be easily found out as friends 
In other words....I don't think you're doing anything wrong...:bow:


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## olwen (Aug 23, 2009)

butch said:


> Maybe this is why I've been doing it wrong all my life, but I don't think of meeting romantic partners any different than I would meeting non-romantic partners. So, I'd ask (or not ask) the same questions to both types of people, and those questions would never be of the 'why are you still single' or anything of that matter.
> 
> I'm pretty good at asking questions to find out lots of things about people without being intrusive, a busybody, what have you. Isn't getting to know someone the best way to fall in love, anyway?
> 
> Then again, if I'm really physically attracted by someone in real life (as opposed to online) I can't talk to them to save my life, so take all this with a salt lick sized grain of salt.



You know for a long time I thought friends would make the best lovers, but then come to find out a ton of other people think the opposite, so I stopped looking to friends to hook up. I would however want a lover to be a friend. I'm with you tho, I do think getting to know each other is a good way to fall in love, but it seems people just don't have patience for that these days. They want firecrackers and thunderbolts and love at first sight. If not expecting all that makes me cynical or jaded then so be it.


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## Tracyarts (Aug 23, 2009)

" Maybe this is why I've been doing it wrong all my life, but I don't think of meeting romantic partners any different than I would meeting non-romantic partners. "

That's always worked for me. 

I would want to meet a guy as a friend. Maybe a friend I thought was attractive in some way, but I wanted a friendship first and if anything more developed from a mutual attraction and a good blend of interpersonal chemistry, then great. If not, well at least I had made a friend. I rarely tried to get to know somebody for purely romantic reasons, and the few times I did, it didn't last long because that's really not what I wanted. 

Tracy


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## Tau (Aug 24, 2009)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> I'll probably get tomatoes thrown at me for this but ahead I plow! I do understand your fears and I use to have them but..
> 
> Tau,Mszwebs you both need to get off line and into the real world..Get out there and talk to men,you don't have to bed them or even date them..Just be friendly,talk to them and it will help get your over your fears of them..The more you are around men the easier it will be for you to understand them and yourselves..The more men you talk to,the easier it will be for you to gauge what type of man you truly want..I know having online friends is great but sometimes you need to have a real face to face with someone..Personally I think talking to older men helps a lot,someone in their 40's or maybe early 50's..
> 
> I'll admit I do not go as much as I use to..I stay at home more then what I need to but with my medical problems I am not always a nice person to be around...Hell I haven't had a date in years but that is a whole different story..



*gasp* Tomatoes!!! Never!!  I'm trying that whole talk to men bit - I've been on 4 blind dates in the past week and every single one has been agony! LOL! What I can say is that I'm getting a very clear idea of what i DON'T want. The bit about older men though doesn't work for me. I'm super comfortable around older guys cos I'm not sexually into them. Its the ones who're closer to my age, who give me heart palpitations and hot flushes that i have a problem with. But good advice all the same - the virtual world can get just a tad too comfortable.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Aug 24, 2009)

YAY!!! No tomatoes!!


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## steely (Aug 24, 2009)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> YAY!!! No tomatoes!!



It's nice to have a conversation without anything being thrown.


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## rainyday (Aug 24, 2009)

Tau said:


> I'm trying that whole talk to men bit - I've been on 4 blind dates in the past week and every single one has been agony! LOL!



You are brave! And a mascochist, I think lol. Good for you.



olwen said:


> You may have a point there. I just have to wonder tho how much this confidence issue has to do with the men being FAs. If they claim to always be dealing with fat women who don't have the confidence they look for, then it does make sense that they would jump to that conclusion, but then it makes me think that well if they are jumping to that conclusion, then what if those guys wouldn't actually know a confident fat women from a hole in the head?


Reading Dim, over time I've wondered often if men online view "confident" as willing to post photos, especially pinup type ones, and whether those who don't are viewed as less confident. Many comments have led me to believe that's true, with a small pool who think the opposite.


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## Carrie (Aug 24, 2009)

rainyday said:


> Reading Dim, over time I've wondered often if men online view "confident" as willing to post photos, especially pinup type ones, and whether those who don't are viewed as less confident. Many comments have led me to believe that's true, with a small pool who think the opposite.


This has been my experience, too, unfortunately. If we don't want to share cheeky photos, it's obviously because we have serious issues with our bodies, and are not confident, right? Yeesh. Drives me batty. :doh:


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## rainyday (Aug 24, 2009)

Think I'd get an honest answer if I asked on the FA board? Maybe I should stick a question up there.



ETA: Went ahead and put one up. I'll be curious to read if FFAs view things the same way as MFAs. Also, I love that word cheeky. Stole it.


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## mossystate (Aug 24, 2009)

I think it is always more desireable for some to place the spotlight on somebody else, lest that somebody else start noticing that the lamp holder is not all that super-duper-confident in every area of their life. Dog forbid that a woman be a little less confident in the body department, but quite confident ( she gets to decide the defintion ) in other areas of her life. But, for women, let's just focus on the body...yeah. It is using a sledgehammer on another human being. Also makes me think that people like that are not very interesting. I know I will never be 100% confident ( oops...CONFIDENT ) in my skin. I am closer to the point of not caring, if it means that I am going to waste too much time not truly living with, and celebrating, the things I love about myself. If a man would be so hung up on my not expressing body love in the way he defines it, and does not feel and remember with every fiber of his being, the way I can make him feel with my body...then it truly would be his loss...and that's ok for both of us.


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## olwen (Aug 24, 2009)

rainyday said:


> You are brave! And a mascochist, I think lol. Good for you.
> 
> 
> Reading Dim, over time I've wondered often if men online view "confident" as willing to post photos, especially pinup type ones, and whether those who don't are viewed as less confident. Many comments have led me to believe that's true, with a small pool who think the opposite.





Carrie said:


> This has been my experience, too, unfortunately. If we don't want to share cheeky photos, it's obviously because we have serious issues with our bodies, and are not confident, right? Yeesh. Drives me batty. :doh:



I've also wondered that. Even just online dating, I've had that experience too where if a guy asks for a nude photo rolleyes and I don't want to give it to him I'm accused of having body issues. Yet another reason to just not bother with online dating. I've just had enough of that mess.


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## olwen (Aug 24, 2009)

mossystate said:


> I think it is always more desireable for some to place the spotlight on somebody else, lest that somebody else start noticing that the lamp holder is not all that super-duper-confident in every area of their life. Dog forbid that a woman be a little less confident in the body department, but quite confident ( she gets to decide the defintion ) in other areas of her life. But, for women, let's just focus on the body...yeah. It is using a sledgehammer on another human being. Also makes me think that people like that are not very interesting. I know I will never be 100% confident ( oops...CONFIDENT ) in my skin. I am closer to the point of not caring, if it means that I am going to waste too much time not truly living with, and celebrating, the things I love about myself. If a man would be so hung up on my not expressing body love in the way he defines it, and does not feel and remember with every fiber of his being, the way I can make him feel with my body...then it truly would be his loss...and that's ok for both of us.



I'm out of rep for ya. Well said.


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## StarMoon (Aug 25, 2009)

question; should you be what you require in a relationship? Example; if you want an educated man, should you be educated yourself?


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## Tania (Aug 25, 2009)

StarMoon said:


> question; should you be what you require in a relationship? Example; if you want an educated man, should you be educated yourself?



Roughly speaking, I think so. My heart's pretty flexible, though, so it's not as big of an issue as it could be. To run with your education example, it's usually the less-educated guys who have some sort of issue with me being somehow out of their reach rather than me wigging out because they're not "up to my educational level." 

I have a J.D. from a top ten law school. My ex husband never finished his AA. Of my fiercest crushes, one had two masters degrees and the other never finished college.


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## mossystate (Aug 25, 2009)

If I only dated men who had the same formal education as moi...then I would not have dated most of the men I have dated. Perhaps they saw I was intelligent, and a few other things.


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## butch (Aug 25, 2009)

StarMoon said:


> question; should you be what you require in a relationship? Example; if you want an educated man, should you be educated yourself?



This is an excellent question, and one I wonder about, too. There are certain dynamics that in the past I've gotten into, to my detriment, and the big one is projecting all these ideas of perfection and strength onto my partners/friends, and wanting that person to lift me up to their stature.

It never works, for lots of reasons, and I actually don't respect myself very much when I place myself in the role of the person who needs to be nurtured into that place of strength and confidence. I like myself when I do it myself, and I don't feel so inadequate anymore, which is a great feeling.

Contrasts and difference are nice, but sameness is, too, and it is important to know which commonalities are worth pursuing. For me, education isn't something that one can objectively measure, so I don't look for degrees and such. I look for someone who is curious about the world and interested in knowing more, and interested in learning from others. Those types of people I find are always smart, regardless of their formal level of education.


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## Tracyarts (Aug 25, 2009)

" I look for someone who is curious about the world and interested in knowing more, and interested in learning from others. Those types of people I find are always smart, regardless of their formal level of education. "

That would be exactly the kind of person I always looked for too. Somebody with an open and receptive mind, who loved to learn, experience, do, and see new things. Somebody who could appreciate the wonder of the world right along with me.

Tracy


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## Sugar (Aug 25, 2009)

StarMoon said:


> question; should you be what you require in a relationship? Example; if you want an educated man, should you be educated yourself?



I'm going to step out there and say yes...however, perhaps people need to reel it in as to what they require. My former husband has a doctorate of arts and is working on a post doctorate...he's educated. I barely graduated high school. I can totally hold my own with his friends and colleagues because I'm very well read and dare I say smart without sounding like the ego queen? I require that someone be interested in the world, to me that translates to being bright.

Yes, we are all strong women hear us roar and all that jazz, but we are as unique as the next person in a lot of ways. I'm positive none of us will melt if we don't get $100 vases of flowers weekly and aren't put on a pedestal. Just the same for the partners in our lives.


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## Tau (Aug 25, 2009)

mossystate said:


> I think it is always more desireable for some to place the spotlight on somebody else, lest that somebody else start noticing that the lamp holder is not all that super-duper-confident in every area of their life. Dog forbid that a woman be a little less confident in the body department, but quite confident ( she gets to decide the defintion ) in other areas of her life. But, for women, let's just focus on the body...yeah. It is using a sledgehammer on another human being. Also makes me think that people like that are not very interesting. I know I will never be 100% confident ( oops...CONFIDENT ) in my skin. I am closer to the point of not caring, if it means that I am going to waste too much time not truly living with, and celebrating, the things I love about myself. If a man would be so hung up on my not expressing body love in the way he defines it, and does not feel and remember with every fiber of his being, the way I can make him feel with my body...then it truly would be his loss...and that's ok for both of us.



This is just so perfectly said!


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## BubbleButtBabe (Aug 25, 2009)

I am simply amazed by you Tau..I have never had the nerve to go on that many blind dates in 1 week...LOL Good for you for getting out there and testing the waters..Just remember those guys are just a nervous as you are and some may even be as scared!


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## superodalisque (Aug 25, 2009)

olwen said:


> I sometimes wonder if fat women sometimes have unrealistic expectations when it comes to men, FAs or no. Are we looking for a superman, a knight in shining armor; someone to rescue us from our (fat) selves or are we looking for someone to complete us? When we talk about the kind of guy we want, and I hear things like I want a man who wants me for me - a guy who wants me despite my fat, I'm never sure if this is a rejection of one's size or an acknowledgment of it. I realize too that how much we identify with being fat (a wish to disown it or accept it completely as who we are) probably has something to do with our expectations...I just wonder if we expect too much from men, like, we don't expect them to be perfect, but we do expect them to "get" us as fat women, whatever that means.... Then I think also of the kinds of women who think they can change men after they meet them....are there fat women who expect to be able to change a man's mind regarding how he reacts to our size? My thoughts about this are all jumbled up so I hope the jist of what I'm asking makes sense....




i think sometimes thats true. i think that maybe fat women sometimes expect too much. thats true of all women too. i think you can set yourself up to be disappointed like that. it can make you angry and frustrated if your not careful. its good to have high expectations but not invest yourself too much in any guy thats its earth shattering when he doesn't measure up. maybe it has something to do with the fact that a lot of fat women feel like thier choices are so limited that somehow they need to make it work, no matter how disappointing the guy is, just in case they don't find someone else? then it becomes a problem because people might not be so willing to move on when they really should. so maybe its really a mix of low/high expectations. when we really should be trying for something better we are wasting time with the hopeless?


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## superodalisque (Aug 25, 2009)

rainyday said:


> Reading Dim, over time I've wondered often if men online view "confident" as willing to post photos, especially pinup type ones, and whether those who don't are viewed as less confident. Many comments have led me to believe that's true, with a small pool who think the opposite.



i don't really think thats true. i think its an impression that dims gives. tg dims is not the real world--it truly is fantasy land. there are a lot of FAs who have interactions with the women here both web models and not IRL and they know that pix only say how someone looks. there are some guys here who will play the pix/confidence card just because they want to see more or different body parts. there are women who play the pix card and try to make it seem that they get more attention because people are looking at thier pix. the truth is that the kind of attention they might get is the worthless type unless they have the real confidence and good personality to go with it. so for the women who don't post, maybe its good your not wasting your time that way--unless you just enjoy showing off and doing it for yourself. 

its was interesting that on the FA forums when guys were asked about what they really thought of as confidence no one mentioned posting pix on dims. do you think that thought could possibly be about some of the insecurity of women and the games we try to play with each other, sort of like this celebrity junk in the media? those women leave a certian pictorial impression but they are just as likley to be lonely or have failed relationships as anyone else.

i'm not sure that guys are quite as penis driven as they lead people to believe or as they say when it comes to true relationships anyway. at least that has not been my experience. maybe women see comments on the paysite forum or the pix threads and think that is what is being implied is something more than it really is anyway?


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## superodalisque (Aug 25, 2009)

kayrae said:


> I specifically dislike this online torture that I'm putting myself through. Sometimes I feel like I'm having a relationship with my cell phone. I hate long distance relationships and I do not dig feeling like I'm running after someone who's so hard to read. I don't think it's too demanding for wanting some kind of reassurance that he's for real, however way he can prove it to me.
> 
> Otherwise... well, I shouldn't waste my time.



IRL would probably work out better for you anyway. its easier to tell whats going on if you can just hang out and look into each other's eyes sometimes. you don't wonder quite so much about motives.

do you ever think about all of this "there are no BBWs where i am" talk. sometimes i think a lot of FAs love the online long distance thing because they really might be closeted and aren't quite ready to come out yet. we all know by just looking here there are plenty of BBWs everywhere. is it that they just aren't talking to them in public? i ask myself all of those questions. have they ever had a fat gf that they've actually gone out with in pubic and introed to thier friends? most guys i know want to be near the woman they are interested in and don't start things ld on purpose. it usually happens when someone moves for a job etc... and when he is interested he doesn't really give her the chance to think that he isn't--just in case while she is wondering someone else makes it clear and she goes off with him instead. if you have to chase maybe you might have to wonder what is really going on. i would.


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## Carrie (Aug 26, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> i don't really think thats true. i think its an impression that dims gives. tg dims is not the real world--it truly is fantasy land. there are a lot of FAs who have interactions with the women here both web models and not IRL and they know that pix only say how someone looks. there are some guys here who will play the pix/confidence card just because they want to see more or different body parts. there are women who play the pix card and try to make it seem that they get more attention because people are looking at thier pix. the truth is that the kind of attention they might get is the worthless type unless they have the real confidence and good personality to go with it. so for the women who don't post, maybe its good your not wasting your time that way--unless you just enjoy showing off and doing it for yourself.
> 
> its was interesting that on the FA forums when guys were asked about what they really thought of as confidence no one mentioned posting pix on dims. do you think that thought could possibly be about some of the insecurity of women and the games we try to play with each other, sort of like this celebrity junk in the media? those women leave a certian pictorial impression but they are just as likley to be lonely or have failed relationships as anyone else.
> 
> i'm not sure that guys are quite as penis driven as they lead people to believe or as they say when it comes to true relationships anyway. at least that has not been my experience. maybe women see comments on the paysite forum or the pix threads and think that is what is being implied is something more than it really is anyway?



Nope. I agree that Dimsland can certainly skew perceptions and expectations, but my experience with the "no photos = not confident/hates her body" assumption phenomenon has consistently happened to me with guys from here, from dating sites, from myspace, from yahoo, you name it. Very much not just here. And that confidence thread in the FA forum got less than 20 responses from men here (none of whom I would expect to embrace the pics = confidence thing), unfortunately. 

My sense is that it can be such a negative and disappointing experience for an FA to be involved with someone who has loads of self-loathing and hate about her body, that there's sometimes a tendency to latch on to the picture thing in order to "protect" themselves from another similar experience. Sort of an easy and quick a+b=c equation that can be used to identify potential issues, in their minds. The problem is, it's a faulty equation for a complicated subject that can take time and patience to figure out. 

I don't know, I try not to let it bother me. I figure if a guy is that black and white about things and so seeking an easy, quick and obvious answer, he's clearly not for me, anyway.


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## msbard90 (Aug 26, 2009)

Carrie said:


> Nope. I agree that Dimsland can certainly skew perceptions and expectations, but my experience with the "no photos = not confident/hates her body" assumption phenomenon has consistently happened to me with guys from here, from dating sites, from myspace, from yahoo, you name it. Very much not just here. And that confidence thread in the FA forum got less than 20 responses from men here (none of whom I would expect to embrace the pics = confidence thing), unfortunately.
> 
> My sense is that it can be such a negative and disappointing experience for an FA to be involved with someone who has loads of self-loathing and hate about her body, that there's sometimes a tendency to latch on to the picture thing in order to "protect" themselves from another similar experience. Sort of an easy and quick a+b=c equation that can be used to identify potential issues, in their minds. The problem is, it's a faulty equation for a complicated subject that can take time and patience to figure out.
> 
> I don't know, I try not to let it bother me. I figure if a guy is that black and white about things and so seeking an easy, quick and obvious answer, he's clearly not for me, anyway.



I wonder what dims would be like without pictures? Would we still have FA's on here? I wonder how many would give it up.


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## Rowan (Aug 26, 2009)

msbard90 said:


> I wonder what dims would be like without pictures? Would we still have FA's on here? I wonder how many would give it up.



Good question!


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## rainyday (Aug 26, 2009)

msbard90 said:


> I wonder what dims would be like without pictures? Would we still have FA's on here? I wonder how many would give it up.



Heh. I think the wailing and gnashing of teeth that would ensue if all picture threads were suddenly and permanently removed would top any drama heretofore seen, though I don't think just men would be complaining.


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## superodalisque (Aug 26, 2009)

Carrie said:


> Nope. I agree that Dimsland can certainly skew perceptions and expectations, but my experience with the "no photos = not confident/hates her body" assumption phenomenon has consistently happened to me with guys from here, from dating sites, from myspace, from yahoo, you name it. Very much not just here. And that confidence thread in the FA forum got less than 20 responses from men here (none of whom I would expect to embrace the pics = confidence thing), unfortunately.
> 
> My sense is that it can be such a negative and disappointing experience for an FA to be involved with someone who has loads of self-loathing and hate about her body, that there's sometimes a tendency to latch on to the picture thing in order to "protect" themselves from another similar experience. Sort of an easy and quick a+b=c equation that can be used to identify potential issues, in their minds. The problem is, it's a faulty equation for a complicated subject that can take time and patience to figure out.
> 
> I don't know, I try not to let it bother me. I figure if a guy is that black and white about things and so seeking an easy, quick and obvious answer, he's clearly not for me, anyway.



yep, i can see that too. you made a lot of great points. i agree that it can also be a quick indication for you that that sort of guy is not your type anyway. so it can be looked at in a beneficial kind of a way. i dont think a place like dims really attracts too many men of that type(the type you ar e interested in)--at least not long term. often they don't need things like this to actually meet someone. they just go out and meet people in thier daily lives. the serious guys that i know always seem to get away from it (dims) after the initial rush. they make friends look at a few pix and move on. i also know a lot of FAs who've gotten really disappointed for relying on photos . and as you said i can see trying to use a photo as some kind of an indication. in a lot of ways i guess bbws do the same thing. i mean if an FA never shows a pic sometimes we feel it indicates a married guy, a guy in the closet or other nogoodnick kinds of things. so all of us probaby rely on pix too much. i know for sure since some very nice FA friends i have met here who don't post a pic or make posts know that a lot of bbws have gotten it totally wrong about them too.


i can understand a guy wanting a woman who doesn't appear to be ashamed to be seen. it might not only indicate to him a lack of self confidence but something more. it might say to a guy that this might be a woman who does not like to be looked at or appreciated in the way he may need to appreciate her. it might be an incorrect assumption but it could exist nevertheless. so what you said made a lot of sense--especially when you are talking about guys who really might not have much experience with real women. but then again some FAs here have had expereinces that back their notions up. so its complicated. i mean most of us live by previous experiences.

if i were a guy on dims i might be suspect of a bbw who was afraid to show pix. i'm not talking about cheesecake pix etc... though they are very valid concerns regarding things like having the pix posted elsewhere in a disrespectful way or used as wanking fodder etc when that is not your goal... some guys might not necessarily be interested in someone sensitive who was so overly concerned with that. it might make him feel as though he is dealing with someone he has to baby along if anything somewhat disturbing at all came up. a lot of guys want a woman who is stronger than that. i'm not saying that having those concerns make a woman weak but i could see how that assumption might be made. for a guy maybe not being able to show yourself, even covered, could make him feel that a woman has hidden herself away or is even afraid to live and be herself. it might not be true but its an assumption that could be drawn. it can look like she is a woman ruled by fear. and for a lot of men its important that any woman big or small not be controlled too much by what the public might think of her one way or another--even though posting a pic can be a kind of social pressure in and of itself.

i think maybe bbws also use the pic comments to determine what kind of a guy they are dealing with. i'm not so sure thats a good indicator of who someone is either. i mean, women don't behave as they normally would if they go out with thier girls to see chippendale dancers or something. they hoot holler and talk about body parts and measurements too in that kind of environment. you probably won't find a whole lot of concern about what all of that really means there either. i think for a lot of people dims is that kind of place. for a lot of folks its just a moment of silly fun. maybe what we might want to ask is that why when we are in an environment like this that we expect some other kind of attitudes to result? i know i've been asking myself that recently. i have also wondered why institutions like NAAFA etc... don't seem to have an active forum like this where people who are interested in discussing SA seriously can come to talk in a real world kind of a way. maybe we should approach them to start one? does anyone have any informaton about that?


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## Tad (Aug 28, 2009)

Just re: the no pics thing....I wonder if there is an easy switch to turn pics on or off, so if it would be possible to have an annual 'pic free day' just for a change?


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## msbard90 (Aug 28, 2009)

Tad said:


> Just re: the no pics thing....I wonder if there is an easy switch to turn pics on or off, so if it would be possible to have an annual 'pic free day' just for a change?



Interesting... But I think we all already seen too many pics of eachother for it to matter.

lol dimsville population would be at 0 for the day though.


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## mossystate (Aug 28, 2009)

msbard90 said:


> lol dimsville population would be at 0 for the day though.



You'd be surprised.


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## msbard90 (Aug 28, 2009)

mossystate said:


> You'd be surprised.



lol i know i'd probably make it on here, as well as a lot of other people. I was just being silly haha


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## kayrae (Aug 28, 2009)

I'm too savvy for that. I have a wank fodder folder on my desktop, so I'm good 



rainyday said:


> Heh. I think the wailing and gnashing of teeth that would ensue if all picture threads were suddenly and permanently removed would top any drama heretofore seen, though* I don't think just men would be complaining*.


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## rainyday (Aug 28, 2009)

Planning ahead. Good thinking!


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## olwen (Aug 28, 2009)

Tad said:


> Just re: the no pics thing....I wonder if there is an easy switch to turn pics on or off, so if it would be possible to have an annual 'pic free day' just for a change?



Actually there is at least in Firefox there is:

1. Make sure your pop up blocker is turned on
2. Right click on any image and then click "block images from name of website" 

to undo the block, click on "undo" in the pop up bar.

To turn off animations you need to download the firefox "web developer" add on from Mozilla. Once it's installed:
1. right click anywhere on the page
2. click web developer
3. click images
4. click image animations
and that's it. To undo animations, follow steps 1-3, and for step four choose enable image animations.


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## Carrie (Aug 29, 2009)

Just to clarify, pictures are great! I love seeing pictures, I've posted my share of myself, and I'm not hesitant to share more of me once I know someone a bit and feel comfortable. I was more referring to guys that assume that a reluctance to post/share scantily clad or very revealing photos equals poor body image or whatnot. That's my fault for not explaining better.


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## msbard90 (Aug 29, 2009)

Carrie said:


> Just to clarify, pictures are great! I love seeing pictures, I've posted my share of myself, and I'm not hesitant to share more of me once I know someone a bit and feel comfortable. I was more referring to guys that assume that a reluctance to post/share scantily clad or very revealing photos equals poor body image or whatnot. That's my fault for not explaining better.



i understood ya... lol new imagine this:

paysite board is blocked for a day.

now how many FA's would leave?


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## mossystate (Aug 29, 2009)

msbard90 said:


> now how many FA's would leave?



The men who don't contribute anything outside of the paysite, and some who do. Lots. You won't miss them. Ok...so is the next scenario what happens if the picture threads on the weight board are all shuttered for a day? Guess the food board holds no scenarios...there is the food porn thread, but there is no ' and ' in there.


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## superodalisque (Aug 29, 2009)

i think maybe being into the arts might skew my thoughts but most people are visual. thats how most information is taken in. thats how most people prefer to learn and also appreciate pleasure. even for me a lack of visual stimulation would make me feel like leaving. my eyes need something. and what about the women who get encouragement even from the paysites? i perve free pix all of the time even though i already appreciate myself. i enjoy seeing how beautiful the women are. when i'm thinking that i don't really care what the men looking at the same time are thinking or why they are there. its all about me and my appreciation for another woman who isn't hiding--even if she is doing something out of my personal comfort level. the fact that i don;t do it has nothing to do with my respect for her and my hope that she is getting everything out of it that she really wants to. when women they see another woman who is fat showing herself and not looking ashamed or cying or at least not appearing to feel ugly--i think that can be inspirational. sometimes even when seeing women like themselves or even themselves as a sex object is highly liberating in a culture that has seen fat women as asexual for so long. it doesn't mean that a woman has to do the same. it doesn't make the person doing it bad. it doesn't make the person who wants to see that bad. i think its just a matter of women making sure that they are always being true to themselves and doing what they want to do in the way they want to do it. prescription for us either way limits our personal freedom and make us feel stimied and limited by being fat or female.

people are always going to find something sensual and sexual in the visual. there were times when even the knees, ankles and elbows were considered pornographic and explicit. i'm aware that here is a certian pressure that women might feel to show. but there is also a pressure by society not to show when you are fat. thats why i really feel is has to be an individual thing. a woman has to find her own way to free herself and express herself. and i think it can be an unfair assumption to think that all of the women who do show are doing it out of some kind of desperation. some may be sure. but also i can say speaking for myself there is a real joy about just enjoying who you are and how you look and expressing that. that may work for me but not for other people. i wouldn't expect everyone to feel as i do. i'm not sure there can be any hard and fast assumptions made on anyone doing anything if its a part of thier own growth process. i guess sometimes people have to find out their comfort level for themselves. in the end i don't think it should really matter what men think about what you should be doing if you are self evolved. i think maybe thats what we all should be moving toward--not letting others determine how we feel about ourselves. you can be comfortable showing or not showing. the only person you should be worrying about pleasing is yourself. hopefully we'll just give each other the respect and support to be ourselves no matter what that means. so, no matter how many times you show or don't show your body in whatever way you see fit is a matter of having true freedom as a woman to be yourself and on an intimate level to own yourself.

i think that the problem isn't that we expect too much out of guys we date. i think we don't expect much of ourselves and own own attractiveness. i mean in terms of our personality and energy being the wonderful thing that can hold a guy. i think in general women overplay the physical when it comes to relationships as well. they attribute all kinds negatve things to guys re: why something did not work out. most of them are not the slap happy sex monsters that people make them out to be. they are people just like us. they like fun , joy and yes--lovely sex. like us they just want to be happy. a lot of the time we kind of approach them as though they are already doing something wrong by simply existing and being attracted to us. i would have to say in thier place i might not be very interested in us either. many experienced men understand the differnce between sexual arousal and love. but i think there are still a whole lot of women who put as much emphasis if not more on the arousal issue than men do when it comes ot relationships. guys understand they can go out have a good time and have hot sex and it doesn't mean they want to spend the rest of thier life or even a day with that person. so its not the pix or body alone that can hold a man. i think a lot of times even thought they say they do women somtimes don't or don't want to truly understand that there are more components to it and try to oversimplify men because it makes it easier to villify them. it makes it easier to face the fact that maybe the reason they might be having a hard time dating "successfully" is because there is something in thier own personality that they may have to work on. just maybe they might not be a pleasure to be with. i really don't mean this to be judgemental or mean but i'm just being direct. it just seems to me that to come looking for a serious relationship on a place like dims is going to be counterproductive for the most part. i would be a little like putting a personal add in the back of playboy magazine. you can't judge all men by the responses here. i think the real problem has been that bbws have to find the strength to meet people IRL. i know there are certian realities notwithstanding things like mobility and bbw friendly places to go. but maybe we can find ways to work together so that people can find more fruitful situations to meet the kind of guys they need to meet instead of just standing around in a playground like this waiting on an adult to show up.


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## msbard90 (Aug 30, 2009)

Oh hell yes!!! Not gonna lie, I absolutely love lurking around at times, checking out pics on the site. It has nothing to do with the fact that i am shallow and only here for the pics, because I'm obviously not- but more of Hell yeah there are beautiful and hot people on this site and I'm giving out a big universal rep to anyone who shares pics right now  :wubu:


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## katherine22 (Aug 30, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> i think that the problem isn't that we expect too much out of guys we date. i think we don't expect much of ourselves and own own attractiveness. i mean in terms of our personality and energy being the wonderful thing that can hold a guy. i think in general women overplay the physical when it comes to relationships as well. they attribute all kinds negatve things to guys re: why something did not work out. most of them are not the slap happy sex monsters that people make them out to be. they are people just like us. they like fun , joy and yes--lovely sex. like us they just want to be happy. a lot of the time we kind of approach them as though they are already doing something wrong by simply existing and being attracted to us. i would have to say in thier place i might not be very interested in us either. many experienced men understand the differnce between sexual arousal and love. but i think there are still a whole lot of women who put as much emphasis if not more on the arousal issue than men do when it comes ot relationships. guys understand they can go out have a good time and have hot sex and it doesn't mean they want to spend the rest of thier life or even a day with that person. so its not the pix or body alone that can hold a man. i think a lot of times even thought they say they do women somtimes don't or don't want to truly understand that there are more components to it and try to oversimplify men because it makes it easier to villify them. it makes it easier to face the fact that maybe the reason they might be having a hard time dating "successfully" is because there is something in thier own personality that they may have to work on. just maybe they might not be a pleasure to be with. i really don't mean this to be judgemental or mean but i'm just being direct. it just seems to me that to come looking for a serious relationship on a place like dims is going to be counterproductive for the most part.
> 
> 
> You offer some interesting ideas, Felicia. It some ways it is harder to be a woman than it is to be a man. Woman are judged harsher for the same behavior such as acting on one's sexual needs than men. There has always been a double standard of sexual conduct for women, as marriage and the committed relationship are the only appropriate contexts for women to express their sexuality in most cultures. When one group feels justified in rendering judgment on another group, and the judgment is endorsed by the culture than it becomes dis-empowering for the recipients of judgment.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Aug 30, 2009)

I agree and to have such double standards still in the USA is sad....A man being a stud because he can get different women and a woman being a slut because she can get the same number of men..Ridiculous and outdated..

On the comments about the pics..I have reasons for not posting a pic has nothing to do with my size issues but more of my past issues..If a man was to ask nicely I would send him a pic to see what I looked like but it would not be a cheeky one..I would have to really know the guy pretty good before I sent the full clothed one!


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## superodalisque (Aug 30, 2009)

katherine22 said:


> i agree about the double standard thing and its messed up. unfortunately i think a whole lot of women are the ones doing the reinforcing of the double standard. we judge each other so hard. we talk about each other in such derrogatory ways. sometimes i think we are harder on ourselves than anybody else. it can almost make a woman afraid to breathe. its seems no matter how you are or what you do someone has an issue with it. i'm not saying that men don't have a big hand in this mess because they do. but i feel that other women tend to give more weight to another woman's opinion than they do a man's anyway. i think we really want to please each other and be accepted by one another more. the horrific things that have been done to women in the name of male dominance has historically been enforced by women. if women didn't accept and cooperate its my feeling that none of it could happen. as far as i know there has hardly been any cases of female genital mutilation, a horrendous custom carried out in almost all parts of the world at one time or another, that has been carried out by a man. how much more freedom would we have if we didn't identify with oppressors?


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## BubbleButtBabe (Aug 30, 2009)

Oh I agree with that 100%,women are women's worse enemy..Here is an example,instead of being happy a woman got a promotion at work you would probably hear catty remarks about her sleeping her way to the top..Maybe the way a certain woman dresses,you have other women talking about her because of it,instead of saying to each their own..Instead of being joined in a sisterhood and wanting the best for each other we try to tear each other to pieces...In a perfect world we would have a united front and we would raise each other up as much as we could.


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## mossystate (Aug 30, 2009)

Getting some of those historic horrors to be enforced by women...that's the point. To have someone who looks like you will be the one who approaches you with the knife ( whatever ), that is the biggest mind-fuck...ever. The enforcers also know the score...to refuse, is to be horrifically punished, themselves...or, more than likely, someone they love will suffer. It then becomes ingrained. Those women know that there is no way other women will have a few scraps in their bowl, unless everybody follows the rules. It can only change, when the beaten down puppets can see there is a light....somewhere. I love when I see those lights flicker, and the subsequent strength that moves forward...even a step. It fills my heart and soul. 

I think men tear one another apart as much as women tear one another apart, it just might not be done exactly the same ways. Some women are more snarly and superficial ( there are plenty of snarling men...plenty ), and I agree that that is what is expected of us, as we are then met with eye- rolls and, " oh, you know how women are ". I personally do not think those stupid sexist things of women, and I agree we need to start encouraging all people to stop with them.


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## rainyday (Aug 30, 2009)

Ironically, there's also a sometimes subtle, sometimes blatantly not, pressure to conform when you choose to step out of the casual sexual arena too, especially if you're open about it. And oddly most of the comments _to_ women about that seem come from other women.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Aug 30, 2009)

I sometimes wonder if those comments are made because lady A is scared to try what lady B has or will try....I wonder if it is the fear of the unknown that make other women comment..


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## mossystate (Aug 31, 2009)

I imagine there are many reasons. One reason can be because woman A feels stifled in her our life, and does not think woman B should have choices, and make choices. I think there are also men who do the same, the judging..and men who don't make harsh comments, in case the woman who is expressing herself might choose them. If she doesn't, then she is all kinds of bad things. A crazy maze...it is.


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## Brenda (Aug 31, 2009)

I was not demanding enough, not by a long shot. Luckily I finally wised up and in raising my standards in the areas that really mattered to me I met and married a terrific guy. Many bbw's I have known had similar low standards on important issues (morality, fidelity, kindness) and since they thought they could not have what they really wanted they better get money or looks in return.

Of course some fat women have unrealistic standards in dating. I believe a lot of that comes from being socially immature. They were likely denied the normal dating and socialization thin peers had in high school and were stunted socially. So as they finally come into their own in their 20's or 30's they have not yet shed the overly romantic ideas of what a man should be like. Most of these women learn and grow and in time develop realistic ideas of what men should be like and some crash really hard and lose their standards for dating altogether.

Brenda


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## mszwebs (Aug 31, 2009)

I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

I think that in a lot of ways, I'm just the right amount of demanding...but I don't tend to pay attention to what's below the surface.

Like, if someone SEEMS to have the things I'm looking for, I stop paying attention and ignore gut instincts tht might tell me something is wrong, because that's not what is SUPPOSED to be happening. And then I make excuses for what doesn't happen, what he does or doesn't say because I stop holding them to the same standard once I'm somehow involved.

THAT is what I need to change.


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## superodalisque (Aug 31, 2009)

mszwebs said:


> I've been thinking about this a lot lately.
> 
> I think that in a lot of ways, I'm just the right amount of demanding...but I don't tend to pay attention to what's below the surface.
> 
> ...



yes exactly. its easy for that to happen to us. it seems that women are always supposed to be the understanding self sacrificing ones. but what about our having sacrifices made for us and our short comings. its somehow okay if we get left in the dust if we don't somehow add up. but if a guy doesn't we're supposed to be supportive. for me it relates directly back to the idea that we are supposed to be ok with FAs who'd leave us if we lost weight. but we're supposed to be okay with him if he embarrassing to us to be around because he is forever perusing and touching other other women--even our friends.


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## superodalisque (Aug 31, 2009)

mszwebs said:


> I've been thinking about this a lot lately.
> 
> I think that in a lot of ways, I'm just the right amount of demanding...but I don't tend to pay attention to what's below the surface.
> 
> ...



yes exactly. its easy for that to happen to us. it seems that women are always supposed to be the understanding self sacrificing ones. but what about our having sacrifices made for us and our short comings? what about how we feel? its somehow okay if we get left in the dust if we don't somehow add up in the least little bit. but if a guy doesn't we're supposed to be supportive and tolerant. 

for me all of this relates directly back to the idea that we are supposed to be ok with FAs who'd leave us if we lost weight. but we're supposed to be okay with him if he is embarrassing to be around because he is forever perusing and touching other women inappropriately--even our friends. we are continually asked to stuff down our own emotions regarding things that they would never tolerate in a million years and sometimes we do it because the community culture is that thats supposed to show how "confident" you are. i don't think it makes us confident if we are tolerant of blatant disrespect and disregard for how we feel and our sense of self worth. i don't feel that making us feel even more disposable and replaceable with the next one than we already are helps a bbws confidence either. like other women, we can add to that the usual neglectful behavior of people who really aren't all that interested in who you are--just getting thier own needs fulfilled. 

maybe its really not very nice of me but i often just mirror back an FAs behavior just to see what his reaction will be. i can tell you that especially when it comes to FAs a lot of them aren't very "confident" either if i even show a small fraction of my admiration of other FAs that he shows towards other bbws. gentle subtle flirting is not even appreciated. i wonder what the reaction would be if i wandered around doing more than i do. what if i was always staring at people's packages and feeling biceps, nice round asses and thigh muscles? if i had indicated to an FA that i was interested in him and i felt the feeling was mutual and i behaved that way he would be livid. 

i really do think that some FAs behave that way because they can. its not mainlly because they are newbies or lack experience. even if you haven't had a relationship before you have eyes and ears and know what happens in the rest of society. even if you don't and you've been living in a cave somewhere once you know you don't continue to repeat the behavior if you have ben told its not appreciated. i think that a lot of FAs really believe we don't have a choice and that we are desperate for the attention of a few so we'll tolerate a lot. they put a lot of stock in what a few other men might say in testosterone beer laden gatherings. they often carefully leave out or convieniently forget other men who try to hit on fat women or are married to or devoted to fat women and like fat women with no regrets everyday without the need of a special commnity behind them to give them the strength to do it. somehow those men don't exist. i mean, who are all of these fat people in america in relationships with anyway? most of us are not alone. almost all of my friends who have been married long term are fat. we ARE desireable to MOST men. most of them are not just tolerating us.

all of this kind of reminds me of the situation with a few black men who play the race card with black women. they date whomever they like but you are a racial turncoat if you as a black woman date outside of your race. a white male is only supposed to be out to use you and abuse you like a slave--they aren't supposed to be able to really love black women. they might tolerate her for a few sexual experiences but thats all. they can never truly love you because you are , as a black woman, just too different. never mind that you are beautiful kind and intelligent and any man would be proud to have you. never mind all of the successful interacial marriges in the US with statistics that make them sound like a more infintesimal number only because fewer than 13% of americans are black in the first place. just as stats don't bare that assumption out stats don't bare out the belief that fat women are not desired. a lot of black women believe the BS. so they sit on thier hands and a lot of these useless guys who are only into pimplike gamesmanship have little or no competition because she has closed herself off to a whole world of positibilities. and because he feels he has no competition its like a license to misbehave. he can have as many women and mistreat as many women as he likes because he has made them feel he is all there is out there for them. i think bbws are kind of in the same predicament. we need to break out and take chances and do what really makes us happy and demand much more than we are.


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## mszwebs (Sep 1, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> yes exactly. its easy for that to happen to us. *it seems that women are always supposed to be the understanding self sacrificing ones. but what about our having sacrifices made for us and our short comings? what about how we feel? its somehow okay if we get left in the dust if we don't somehow add up in the least little bit. but if a guy doesn't we're supposed to be supportive and tolerant. *
> 
> for me all of this relates directly back to the idea that we are supposed to be ok with FAs who'd leave us if we lost weight. but we're supposed to be okay with him if he is embarrassing to be around because he is forever perusing and touching other women inappropriately--even our friends. we are continually asked to stuff down our own emotions regarding things that they would never tolerate in a million years and sometimes we do it because the community culture is that thats supposed to show how "confident" you are. i don't think it makes us confident if we are tolerant of blatant disrespect and disregard for how we feel and our sense of self worth. i don't feel that making us feel even more disposable and replaceable with the next one than we already are helps a bbws confidence either. like other women, we can add to that the usual neglectful behavior of people who really aren't all that interested in who you are--just getting thier own needs fulfilled.
> 
> ...



I SO agree with the bold statements. I agree with the rest, but the bold has, unfortunately, shaped a huge part of who I am. I find myself even now, making excuses for men who have for whatever reason found me to be lacking - and truthfully, without enough reason for it to actually make sense to me. 

Maybe I should have done this or said that, or had I only gone about this a certain way... or asked more questions and not just assumed that what they said was to be taken as what they meant.

They were not REALLY trying to hurt me...they just didn't know what to say. 

OR... they were just chickens who were afraid to be met by logic and knew that they were wrong lol.

I'm not saying that I'm perfect. But I deserve to be treated with respect and not bull shitted. If I have to over look someone's "shortcomings", then they had damn well better be prepared to over look some of mine.

Starting...

Now? :blush: lol


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## Vespertine (Sep 3, 2009)

olwen said:


> I sometimes wonder if fat women sometimes have unrealistic expectations when it comes to men, FAs or no. Are we looking for a superman, a knight in shining armor; someone to rescue us from our (fat) selves or are we looking for someone to complete us? <snip>.... Then I think also of the kinds of women who think they can change men after they meet them....are there fat women who expect to be able to change a man's mind regarding how he reacts to our size? My thoughts about this are all jumbled up so I hope the jist of what I'm asking makes sense....



I think these attitudes are going to cause problems regardless of the size of the person. Maybe it is more intense with fat women, can't say for sure, since I date guys. I think there are unrealistic expectations for romantic relationships in general, and I do get frustrated when a man's fantasy of me overshadows who I actually am.


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## graceofangels (Sep 12, 2009)

In my experience with many other bbw's, they aren't demanding enough. I know many who settle for someone they don't really care for, others who say and do nasty things because they don't feel as if they deserve it.

There is no excuse to ever think you do not deserve what you want. Is it crazy to think prince charming exists or that there's a perfect guy out there? Well yes to that. But you also deserve to be treated well and equally.


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## Tania (Nov 21, 2009)

mszwebs said:


> I find myself even now, making excuses for men who have for whatever reason found me to be lacking - and truthfully, without enough reason for it to actually make sense to me.
> 
> Maybe I should have done this or said that, or had I only gone about this a certain way... or asked more questions and not just assumed that what they said was to be taken as what they meant....
> 
> I'm not saying that I'm perfect. But I deserve to be treated with respect and not bull shitted. If I have to over look someone's "shortcomings", then they had damn well better be prepared to over look some of mine.



I didn't see this until just now, so I apologize for not chiming in earlier, but...that's kinda been my story, too. Wholehearted agreement, particularly the "assuming that what they said was to be taken as what they meant" part.


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## KittyKitten (Nov 22, 2009)

_*This may cause folks to call on me to reject my vagina card, but I will say it again............women in general (fat, skinny, ugly, short, pretty, etc) are too demanding when it comes to dating. He's gotta be a CEO, he's gotta have a degree, he's gotta have a nice car, he's gotta be 6'2, he's gotta have straight teeth, he's gotta treat me like a princess, he's gotta be this, that, and the third. But what can YOU bring to the table? That question is never asked for the females. And men get frustrated. We have to allow our men to have flaws, to be human, because we certainly are not perfect ourselves. *_


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## mossystate (Nov 22, 2009)

happyface83 said:


> _*This may cause folks to call on me to reject my vagina card, but I will say it again............women in general (fat, skinny, ugly, short, pretty, etc) are too demanding when it comes to dating. He's gotta be a CEO, he's gotta have a degree, he's gotta have a nice car, he's gotta be 6'2, he's gotta have straight teeth, he's gotta treat me like a princess, he's gotta be this, that, and the third. But what can YOU bring to the table? That question is never asked for the females. And men get frustrated. We have to allow our men to have flaws, to be human, because we certainly are not perfect ourselves. *_



Perhaps you should look around the site at all ....alllllll....the threads men start about what they want/demand/desire in a woman. Then go other places online and look...then ask around/observe in the real world. Be sure to ask them what they bring to the table. Do all men have obsessive ' checklists ' ?...no. Do all women have them...no. 

Also, it always seems to play out that when you don't have the qualities someone else wants...they are horrible people. Funny, that. Happyface, when it comes right down to it, it's kind of silly. Trust me, everybody is walking around with people who have ' flaws '...and there are plenty of women walking around frustrated. Maybe it's a human thing?...maybe? 

Also, you seem to be a little obsessed with determining what is ' pretty, acceptable, and desireable ' when it comes to looks. There is all kinds of....ugly.


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## Donna (Nov 22, 2009)

happyface83 said:


> This may cause folks to call on me to reject my vagina card, but I will say it again............women in general (fat, skinny, ugly, short, pretty, etc) are too demanding when it comes to dating. He's gotta be a CEO, he's gotta have a degree, he's gotta have a nice car, he's gotta be 6'2, he's gotta have straight teeth, he's gotta treat me like a princess, he's gotta be this, that, and the third. *But what can YOU bring to the table? *That question is never asked for the females. And men get frustrated. We have to allow our men to have flaws, to be human, because we certainly are not perfect ourselves.



Not sure about your experiences (and single folks correct me if I am wrong...maybe I have been married too long and forgot what the dating experience was like) but that question gets asked of females ALL the time. I don't think anyone who has a list of qualities that they consider to be non-negotiable when it comes to someone they are in a relationship with are looking for perfection. It is perfectly acceptable (and in my opinion highly advisable) to have a list of traits or a set of criteria when dating. You cannot find what you truly want and need unless you know what you want and need. 

At the risk of sounding trite, perfection is in the eye of the beholder! It's not about flaws. Everyone is flawed in some ways. Some more than others. And it's not all about looks, either. And as Mossy astutely pointed out, there are all kinds of ugly. For example, I happen to find condescending and accusatory people who make baseless broad stroke judgments pretty ugly. If a woman wants the 6'2" CEO with the perfect teeth and who treats her like a princess, then that is her right. And if those traits are non-negotiable, I hope she finds him and doesn't settle. Because no one should settle for less than they want. NO ONE!


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## superodalisque (Nov 22, 2009)

what Donna and Mossy said. people are always trying to talk women into taking less and making them feel like bad people for also having things they want in a man. most men are very clear about what they are looking for. they are okay with that and so is society. but women are often encouraged to stuff their wants as though they somehow deserve less consideration for thier personal satisfaction. it doesn't really seem to matter that women often bring more to the table than men. we are better educated for sure and that trend is continuing. women have much higher productivity levels at work. its projected that our incomes will catch upand surpass that of men. the only reason it hasn't so far is because there hasn't been more of a political push by women for equal pay for equal work. why not in these days of divorce and single parent families? not because she doesn't truly deserve it. the original reason for males being paid more is no longer there but the structure is very slow to respond to that reality. we are responsible for nearly all of the upbringing of children and the future productivity and succes of this country. we deserve consideration in many ways. we are not some dependent resource sucking group that asks for much while doing little.

it kinda reminds me of the old days when it was ok for a man to get off and leave his wife hanging because she was a woman and should not require sexual fulfillment if she were a "nice" girl. women are not the second sex. we have the same needs and drive for personal fulfillment that men do and we should. we aren't some other substandard group that should be happy with less than we want to strive for because we deserve fewer opportunities for dream fulfillment than men do. we aren't under qualified for the future we want and we shouldn't treat ourselves as if we are.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Nov 23, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> what Donna and Mossy said. people are always trying to talk women into taking less and making them feel like bad people for also having things they want in a man. most men are very clear about what they are looking for. they are okay with that and so is society. but women are often encouraged to stuff their wants as though they somehow deserve less consideration for thier personal satisfaction. it doesn't really seem to matter that women often bring more to the table than men. we are better educated for sure and that trend is continuing. women have much higher productivity levels at work. its projected that our incomes will catch upand surpass that of men. the only reason it hasn't so far is because there hasn't been more of a political push by women for equal pay for equal work. why not in these days of divorce and single parent families? not because she doesn't truly deserve it. the original reason for males being paid more is no longer there but the structure is very slow to respond to that reality. we are responsible for nearly all of the upbringing of children and the future productivity and succes of this country. * we are not some dependent resource sucking group that asks for much while doing little.*
> 
> it kinda reminds me of the old days when it was ok for a man to get off and leave his wife hanging because she was a woman and should not require sexual fulfillment if she were a "nice" girl. *women are not the second sex.* we have the same needs and drive for personal fulfillment that men do and we should. we aren't some other substandard group that should be happy with less than we want to strive for because we deserve fewer opportunities for dream fulfillment than men do. we aren't under qualified for the future we want and we shouldn't treat ourselves as if we are.



Indeed......and thank you :bow:


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## Victim (Nov 27, 2009)

No. If a trait is important enough for you to demand it, then you are important enough to deserve to have it. Don't succumb to the will of another by lowering your standards. You won't find your true equal that way.


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## Tina (Nov 27, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> what Donna and Mossy said. people are always trying to talk women into taking less and making them feel like bad people for also having things they want in a man.


This is so true, and fat women even moreso, as if we are even less deserving than thin women of not just knowing what we want but going after and demanding it.


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## katherine22 (Nov 27, 2009)

No one gives up power without a fight. Men have benefited from patriarchy and to sustain patriarchy women have to be judged inferior. Men are given too much credit and too much control over the emotional lives of women by women. Men lack the sensitivity, the complexity, the intuition and compassion for others to be granted control over a woman's emotional life. This is the truth that women are afraid to face since it infers abandonment - as long women allow men to define their self-worth they will be either be idolized , lacking human complexity or they will be denigrated again lacking human complexity. Either way women lose.


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## Tina (Nov 27, 2009)

katherine22 said:


> No one gives up power without a fight. Men have benefited from patriarchy and to sustain patriarchy women have to be judged inferior. Men are given too much credit and too much control over the emotional lives of women by women. Men lack the sensitivity, the complexity, the intuition and compassion for others to be granted control over a woman's emotional life. This is the truth that women are afraid to face since it infers abandonment - as long women allow men to define their self-worth they will be either be idolized , lacking human complexity or they will be denigrated again lacking human complexity. Either way women lose.



I disagree with you, Katherine. Personally, I don't care if a gender, a race or a 'someone' "has the sensitivity, the complexity, the intuition and compassion for others to be granted control over a woman's emotional life" or not, mine is not up for grabs. 

Beyond that, I think it's ridiculous for you to say such a thing about an entire gender. Do some males fit that indictment? Certainly. Some women, do, too. My opinion has nothing to do with being "afraid" to face the sweeping judgment that you call "truth," it's because I know better based upon my own experience.


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## bigjayne66 (Nov 27, 2009)

I have already decided that if I have another relationship,that guy will be right for me,and I will remain alone otherwise as second best is not good enough,somebody who LIKES BBWs but is not obsessed with them would be good.
A few minor faults ok too,but not anyone too self centred or controlling.


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## katherine22 (Nov 27, 2009)

Tina said:


> I disagree with you, Katherine. Personally, I don't care if a gender, a race or a 'someone' "has the sensitivity, the complexity, the intuition and compassion for others to be granted control over a woman's emotional life" or not, mine is not up for grabs.
> 
> Beyond that, I think it's ridiculous for you to say such a thing about an entire gender. Do some males fit that indictment? Certainly. Some women, do, too. My opinion has nothing to do with being "afraid" to face the sweeping judgment that you call "truth," it's because I know better based upon my own experience.




I beg to differ with you. What has this whole thread discussion been about? It is about having the confidence to assert your needs with a man and not feeling compelled to settle for less due to being fat, female or both. Your emotional life is up for grabs - that is the nature of being in a relationship with another in as much as your feelings are going to be affected, and in the process of being vulnerable with another you will be influenced. I hate to burst your bubble - the statistics are not good. One out of two marriages fail. Can those marriages be failing since women no longer need to be in them for financial security and the sake of the kids? If a man fails to bring new things to the dynamic will he still be desirable? Your experience differs than mine ; therefore what I speak from my experience is invalid? Is that your point?


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## superodalisque (Nov 27, 2009)

katherine22 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> I beg to differ with you. What has this whole thread discussion been about? It is about having the confidence to assert your needs with a man and not feeling compelled to settle for less due to being fat, female or both. Your emotional life is up for grabs - that is the nature of being in a relationship with another in as much as your feelings are going to be affected, and in the process of being vulnerable with another you will be influenced. I hate to burst your bubble - the statistics are not good. One out of two marriages fail. Can those marriages be failing since women no longer need to be in them for financial security and the sake of the kids? If a man fails to bring new things to the dynamic will he still be desirable? Your experience differs than mine ; therefore what I speak from my experience is invalid? Is that your point?



i don't think Tina was invalidating your viewpoint at all just the blanket statement. anytime you deal in absolutes like "men are " you are bound to make a mistake in logic. there is always an exception. that does not invalidate your experience at all since you have no way of knowing all men. its unfortunate its your experience. but, as Tina has said, its not everyone's experience tg.

i also agree with the implication that we have a choice. women can chose to change thier habits and the type of men we deal with. we aren't powerless. we don't have to only accept the things other people say are out there for us. we don't have to rush after a relationship even if its bad. sometimes the best thing is to just love yourself, have a relationship with yourself. that leaves room for the right man when he and if he comes along instead of bogging up our lives with the wrong one because we fear being alone or we fear there is nothing else for us anyway.


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## AuntHen (Nov 27, 2009)

Tau said:


> My experience is that fat girls are willing to accept any old nonsense. I know fat women who go out with men they don't find physically appealing; who lie to and cheat on them; who steal from them; who laugh at them. Most of the big girls I know are often so grateful to be in a relationship they take whatever dude decides to dish up. The guys get away with absolutely everything and cos the chicks are so thankful that they've found somebody to be with - even if he is a monster - they don't complain and they don't ask for more.
> 
> I have a problem with fat girls who want to be loved in spite of their bodies. The first thing that attracts people to each - before words are spoken and wits engaged - is the physical. I don't understand how you can want a man who didn't look at you and go OMG she's HAWT!! Our thinner sisters get that all the time. Guys approach them cos they look hot - I've yet to hear a skinny chick complain about the fact that the man she is now madly in love with was interested in a shag before he was interested in her brain and amazing personality. Yes, it does happen that personality is the first thing that attracts two people to each other - but that's hardly ever - and I don't get why its so upsetting to know that the first thing that a man found appealing about you was your body.




what she said


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## AuntHen (Nov 27, 2009)

<Kayrae> I don't think so. My requirements are simple: smart, attractive, monogamous, and treats me nicely. I haven't found one that returns my admiration, so... I'd rather be lonely than unhappy in an incompatible relationship.


and what she said too


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## katherine22 (Nov 27, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> i
> 
> i also agree with the implication that we have a choice. women can chose to change thier habits and the type of men we deal with. we aren't powerless. we don't have to only accept the things other people say are out there for us. we don't have to rush after a relationship even if its bad. sometimes the best thing is to just love yourself, have a relationship with yourself. that leaves room for the right man when he and if he comes along instead of bogging up our lives with the wrong one because we fear being alone or we fear there is nothing else for us anyway.






There is an issue here that is not being alluded too, the subtle undertone that if a woman chooses to be alone, to live a life without men that she has failed in some way. That is what I think is unfortunate that if a woman is not with a man, she wasn't good looking enough, smart enough and that her aloneness speaks to her deficits.


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## bigmac (Nov 28, 2009)

happyface83 said:


> _*This may cause folks to call on me to reject my vagina card, but I will say it again............women in general (fat, skinny, ugly, short, pretty, etc) are too demanding when it comes to dating. He's gotta be a CEO, he's gotta have a degree, he's gotta have a nice car, he's gotta be 6'2, he's gotta have straight teeth, he's gotta treat me like a princess, he's gotta be this, that, and the third. But what can YOU bring to the table? That question is never asked for the females. And men get frustrated. We have to allow our men to have flaws, to be human, because we certainly are not perfect ourselves. *_



Well said. Guys have wish lists too but for the most part we throw away the list after the third drink. Seriously I've noticed that gals tend to have unreasonable expectations of guys that don't make their heart flutter but will overlook the most egregious flaws in guys that do. 




graceofangels said:


> In my experience with many other bbw's, they aren't demanding enough. I know many who settle for someone they don't really care for, others who say and do nasty things because they don't feel as if they deserve it.
> 
> There is no excuse to ever think you do not deserve what you want. Is it crazy to think prince charming exists or that there's a perfect guy out there? Well yes to that. But you also deserve to be treated well and equally.



I agree with you too. I've seen lots of my female friends put up with endless BS from guys they fell hard for. But these same gals have kicked perfectly decent guys to the curb for incredibly minor flaws.

So, interestingly, its possible to be too demanding and not demanding enough at the same time.


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## mossystate (Nov 28, 2009)

bigmac said:


> > Guys have wish lists too but for the most part we throw away the list after the third drink.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## superodalisque (Nov 28, 2009)

katherine22 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> 
> There is an issue here that is not being alluded too, the subtle undertone that if a woman chooses to be alone, to live a life without men that she has failed in some way. That is what I think is unfortunate that if a woman is not with a man, she wasn't good looking enough, smart enough and that her aloneness speaks to her deficits.



nope i was pointing put exactly the opposite. that its okay to be alone and being alone with your wonderful self is much better than accepting bs. i think a woman who choses to live alone is in complete victory because she hasn't sold herself to the idea that she has to be with someone to be valid. she is only with someone if she wants it and its genuinely someone who adds to her life and does not take away from it. i hope no one sees it as a failure if they are simply reacting to whats out there for them and whether its appropriate for them personally or not. and i also think women who'd rather be alone for whatever reason they have should be fine with that too. either way its our own choice and we shouldn't care about what other people think about it. we should just live as we want to as an individual unapologetically and unashamed. if as independent people we are doing what we want to do we haven't failed-- be it with or without a man. the problem most women have is they are always standing in comparison and reading in other women's negative critique of us and how we live. we need to let that stuff go. and even if someone else does not approve of how we are living--so what? i think we are strong enough and powerful enough as women not to buckle if someone does not agree with what we are doing. we also take that into our relationships with men when we decide to have them. we are always giving other people the power to approve or disapprove of us when the only person's opinion that counts of us is our own. its important for us to give our opinions and our wants and needs more weight than we do instead of always looking around to see how we should react to other people's opinions of us. that goes back to the issue of why we don't feel its okay to demand something from others who feel free to be demanding of us.


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## Tina (Nov 28, 2009)

katherine22 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> I beg to differ with you. What has this whole thread discussion been about? It is about having the confidence to assert your needs with a man and not feeling compelled to settle for less due to being fat, female or both. Your emotional life is up for grabs - that is the nature of being in a relationship with another in as much as your feelings are going to be affected, and in the process of being vulnerable with another you will be influenced.


Yes, I do believe I comprehend what the thread is about; however, I think that each person in a relationship is influenced. Felicia got what I was saying when I said that I have no desire to give up control of my emotional life. Influence doesn't equal control and when it comes to control, I choose,no one else.


> I hate to burst your bubble - the statistics are not good. One out of two marriages fail. Can those marriages be failing since women no longer need to be in them for financial security and the sake of the kids?


I haven't a bubble to burst, as I live in reality. I believe that marriages fail for a number of reasons, so yes, your theory could be part of those reasons; I certainly doubt it accounts for all failed marriages, though.


> Your experience differs than mine ; therefore what I speak from my experience is invalid? Is that your point?


If me giving my differing opinion and experience, disagreeing with you, equals me invalidating yours, then shall I assume that by you doing the same in a conversation with me means that you are invalidating my opinion? I'm not so touchy as to think so. Disagreement is simply that. My experiences inform my opinions just as your experiences inform yours.


katherine22 said:


> [/COLOR]There is an issue here that is not being alluded too, the subtle undertone that if a woman chooses to be alone, to live a life without men that she has failed in some way. That is what I think is unfortunate that if a woman is not with a man, she wasn't good looking enough, smart enough and that her aloneness speaks to her deficits.


I think that issue is more your issue than anything anyone has expressed in this thread. Yes, there often can be a feeling -- during vulnerable times, and for men as well as women, as those feelings are not strictly female domain -- that their aloneness speaks to their deficits. In the light of day, however, I believe most recognize that it's mostly likely not true. But I do not believe that anyone has said, even obliquely, that "if a woman chooses to be alone, to live a life without men that she has failed in some way." I personally do not believe a woman has failed if she is in a relationship or not in one, but often the feeling I get from reading your posts is that you believe the former (choosing a relationship) is a sign of weakness. Am I misreading you? 

I support conscious choice for women when it comes to all things, including whether they will choose to be in a relationship or not.


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## TraciJo67 (Nov 28, 2009)

bigmac said:


> Well said. Guys have wish lists too but for the most part we throw away the list after the third drink. Seriously I've noticed that gals tend to have unreasonable expectations of guys that don't make their heart flutter but will overlook the most egregious flaws in guys that do.
> 
> I agree with you too. I've seen lots of my female friends put up with endless BS from guys they fell hard for. But these same gals have kicked perfectly decent guys to the curb for incredibly minor flaws.
> 
> So, interestingly, its possible to be too demanding and not demanding enough at the same time.



bigmac, can you please look at WHERE you are contributing before you hit the send key? 

A major tip-off for you: The BBW forum is not a place you want to be, while carelessly slinging around the casually dismissive sexist claptrap.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Nov 28, 2009)

Victim said:


> No. If a trait is important enough for you to demand it, then you are important enough to deserve to have it. Don't succumb to the will of another by lowering your standards. * You won't find your true equal that way.*



Excellent point. Are we "too picky" about ourselves might be a good question to ask first before entering the dating world. 
If finding your equal is the objective, then how can anyone be too picky? 

I like the idea of equal.....as in I seek a partner that is as strong as myself.


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## mossystate (Nov 28, 2009)

bigmac said:


> > -- are you saying that my observations are somehow invalid just because I'm male?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## superodalisque (Nov 28, 2009)

bigmac said:


> Well said. Guys have wish lists too but for the most part we throw away the list after the third drink. Seriously I've noticed that gals tend to have unreasonable expectations of guys that don't make their heart flutter but will overlook the most egregious flaws in guys that do.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i disagree with this because any man who thinks your expectations are unreasonable just isn't the man for that partiular woman. a man who naturally thinks its okay for a woman to want what she wants and not squash that down and make a pretense of pretending its ok to squash it down is what a woman needs. thats probably why we have so much divorce in the first place. many women are encouraged to make their bar too low and try to rationalize doing that. society helps her. the man she with encourages that. but eventually she realizes she can't take it anymore. she has dreams deferred. she realizes that a guy who asks her to accept less than she wants does not have her best interest at heart. in my opinion he is usually lazy, either emotionally or otherwise and doesn't want to make the effort to meet a woman half way. sometimes he is just plain old afraid he can't measure up. sometimes he is just being manipulative to get what he wants with no real effort on his part. or maybe who he is simply just does not match what that particular woman really yearns for. either way it shouldn't be a character flaw if a woman wants to to look around for something that satisfies her. 

the biggest issue we have is that women are so unhappy in unfulfilling relationships where they feel suffocated because thier partner does not have a similar goal or outlook as she does. and what's more he often doesn't care to compromise. often she is the one made to compromise. its all about him. i think mainly when you read the posts here women are looking for men who are not so selfish as to tell a woman she should be ok with short changing herself and being unhappy. if one man doesn't want a certain kind of life another man will. a woman shouldn't play slave to someone who doesn't want the same things in life that she does. i think the reason many men often think its okay to squash down a woman's needs is because society really encourages men to be narcissistic. by the time they really understand how thier positions have destroyed the women they love its often too late. unfortunately they get so much false information that teaches and guides them in ignoring the needs of others. but i think the golden rule applies. many men here are very swift to defend their strong preferences and thier rights to them. aren't women allowed to have strong preferences that are center to thier happiness as well?


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## vcrgrrl (Nov 28, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> i disagree with this because any man who thinks your expectations are unreasonable just isn't the man for that partiular woman. a man who naturally thinks its okay for a woman to want what she wants and not squash that down and make a pretense of pretending its ok to squash it down is what a woman needs. thats probably why we have so much divorce in the first place. many women are encouraged to make their bar too low and try to rationalize doing that. society helps her. the man she with encourages that. but eventually she realizes she can't take it anymore. she has dreams deferred. she realizes that a guy who asks her to accept less than she wants does not have her best interest at heart. in my opinion he is usually lazy, either emotionally or otherwise and doesn't want to make the effort to meet a woman half way. sometimes he is just plain old afraid he can't measure up. sometimes he is just being manipulative to get what he wants with no real effort on his part. or maybe who he is simply just does not match what that particular woman really yearns for. either way it shouldn't be a character flaw if a woman wants to to look around for something that satisfies her.
> 
> the biggest issue we have is that women are so unhappy in unfulfilling relationships where they feel suffocated because thier partner does not have a similar goal or outlook as she does. and what's more he often doesn't care to compromise. often she is the one made to compromise. its all about him. i think mainly when you read the posts here women are looking for men who are not so selfish as to tell a woman she should be ok with short changing herself and being unhappy. if one man doesn't want a certain kind of life another man will. a woman shouldn't play slave to someone who doesn't want the same things in life that she does. i think the reason many men often think its okay to squash down a woman's needs is because society really encourages men to be narcissistic. by the time they really understand how thier positions have destroyed the women they love its often too late. unfortunately they get so much false information that teaches and guides them in ignoring the needs of others. but i think the golden rule applies. many men here are very swift to defend their strong preferences and thier rights to them. aren't women allowed to have strong preferences that are center to thier happiness as well?





Well said!


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Nov 28, 2009)

superodalisque said:


> i disagree with this because any man who thinks your expectations are unreasonable just isn't the man for that partiular woman. a man who naturally thinks its okay for a woman to want what she wants and not squash that down and make a pretense of pretending its ok to squash it down is what a woman needs. thats probably why we have so much divorce in the first place. many women are encouraged to make their bar too low and try to rationalize doing that. society helps her. the man she with encourages that. but eventually she realizes she can't take it anymore. she has dreams deferred. she realizes that a guy who asks her to accept less than she wants does not have her best interest at heart. in my opinion he is usually lazy, either emotionally or otherwise and doesn't want to make the effort to meet a woman half way. sometimes he is just plain old afraid he can't measure up. sometimes he is just being manipulative to get what he wants with no real effort on his part. or maybe who he is simply just does not match what that particular woman really yearns for. either way it shouldn't be a character flaw if a woman wants to to look around for something that satisfies her.
> 
> the biggest issue we have is that women are so unhappy in unfulfilling relationships where they feel suffocated because thier partner does not have a similar goal or outlook as she does. and what's more he often doesn't care to compromise. often she is the one made to compromise. its all about him. i think mainly when you read the posts here women are looking for men who are not so selfish as to tell a woman she should be ok with short changing herself and being unhappy. if one man doesn't want a certain kind of life another man will. a woman shouldn't play slave to someone who doesn't want the same things in life that she does. i think the reason many men often think its okay to squash down a woman's needs is because society really encourages men to be narcissistic. by the time they really understand how thier positions have destroyed the women they love its often too late. unfortunately they get so much false information that teaches and guides them in ignoring the needs of others. but i think the golden rule applies. many men here are very swift to defend their strong preferences and thier rights to them. aren't women allowed to have strong preferences that are center to thier happiness as well?




Now you just stop all that crazy talk Felecia


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## Tina (Nov 29, 2009)

bigmac said:


> I read the forum rules and don't think I've broken any of them. As far as being sexist lets see -- I'm all for women being smart, educated, and successful. However, I'm also for being forthright and will not shy away from making what I feel are constructive or at least provocative comments. In other words I treat women the same way I treat men -- is this a problem?


This is a BBW-specific thread. Do not post in BBW-specific threads, as you are not a BBW.


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## Keb (Nov 29, 2009)

*sigh* Maybe I am. I've had at least three guys tell me this year alone that despite what I say, I don't really want to be with anyone, because I didn't believe that I would be a good match for any of them. The reasons varied and were highly individual--personality mismatches or lifestyle choices (like smoking) that I just couldn't adjust my "standards" to accomodate. 

I don't want to be single for the rest of my life...but I don't want to be with a man who isn't a good match for me, either. It wouldn't be fair to him or to myself. It's very disconcerting to be told you don't want something that is among your deepest desires, though.


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## Victim (Dec 1, 2009)

There is a word for people who manipulate others to get what they want with complete disregard for how that actually makes others feel.

Sociopathic.


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## LoveBHMS (Dec 1, 2009)

Keb said:


> *sigh* Maybe I am. I've had at least three guys tell me this year alone that despite what I say, I don't really want to be with anyone, because I didn't believe that I would be a good match for any of them. *The reasons varied and were highly individual--personality mismatches or lifestyle choices (like smoking) that I just couldn't adjust my "standards" to accomodate. *
> 
> I don't want to be single for the rest of my life...but I don't want to be with a man who isn't a good match for me, either. It wouldn't be fair to him or to myself. It's very disconcerting to be told you don't want something that is among your deepest desires, though.



Those things are totally reasonable. Something like smoking is a dealbreaker for many women and men. It has nothing to do with standards.

Probably the smartest friend I have opined that there is no reason anyone breaks up that you didn't know about on your first date. While that's obviously not true 100%, it's a pretty good observation.


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## Tau (Jan 12, 2010)

OMG!!!!OMG!!! I need to rant!!! AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGHGHHH!!! So in an effort to be pro-active about my non-existent dating life I joined two dating websites - DatingBuzz and BBW Cupid. OMG YOU GUYS THE CREEPS WHO LURK IN THESE PLACES!!! I've just had a conversation that has left me feeling dirty - like somebody shat on my soul  I've been on for a week now and I honestly just want to stop. And it's as if what I've written in my profile means nothing, I just wasted words because nobody reads it. The attitudes of entitlement are what has shocked me the most. These people DEMAND that I send pictures, they make statments like: I won't go anywhere near a girl if she doesn't have triple E boobs or You're cute but your thighs aren't fat enough!!  I'm just traumatised. I'll laugh about this later but right now I confess to feeling a fairly intense sense of despair.


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## littlefairywren (Jan 12, 2010)

Tau said:


> OMG!!!!OMG!!! I need to rant!!! AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGHGHHH!!! So in an effort to be pro-active about my non-existent dating life I joined two dating websites - DatingBuzz and BBW Cupid. OMG YOU GUYS THE CREEPS WHO LURK IN THESE PLACES!!! I've just had a conversation that has left me feeling dirty - like somebody shat on my soul  I've been on for a week now and I honestly just want to stop. And it's as if what I've written in my profile means nothing, I just wasted words because nobody reads it. The attitudes of entitlement are what has shocked me the most. These people DEMAND that I send pictures, they make statments like: I won't go anywhere near a girl if she doesn't have triple E boobs or You're cute but your thighs aren't fat enough!!  I'm just traumatised. I'll laugh about this later but right now I confess to feeling a fairly intense sense of despair.



Tau, don't let it put you off. Stick with it, they are not all duds. But yes I agree, there are some really CREEPY guys out there. Sooner or later you will hit a couple of gems. Mind you it took me about 6 months before I struck gold. The very first one that contacted me though....he sent me a pic of his pecker to my email (without my asking for it btw). I almost cancelled on the spot, but I am glad I didn't. I have made some cool friends at least. Still searching for "the one". Good luck hon!!!!!


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## steely (Jan 12, 2010)

Tau said:


> OMG!!!!OMG!!! I need to rant!!! AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGHGHHH!!! So in an effort to be pro-active about my non-existent dating life I joined two dating websites - DatingBuzz and BBW Cupid. OMG YOU GUYS THE CREEPS WHO LURK IN THESE PLACES!!! I've just had a conversation that has left me feeling dirty - like somebody shat on my soul  I've been on for a week now and I honestly just want to stop. And it's as if what I've written in my profile means nothing, I just wasted words because nobody reads it. The attitudes of entitlement are what has shocked me the most. These people DEMAND that I send pictures, they make statments like: I won't go anywhere near a girl if she doesn't have triple E boobs or You're cute but your thighs aren't fat enough!!  I'm just traumatised. I'll laugh about this later but right now I confess to feeling a fairly intense sense of despair.



Oh Tau, It is amazing to me what men will say or do, online. They have absolutely no filter at all. This is just on FB. Send me a picture of your peen and ask me to be friends, uh, no! Automatic block, take the good and leave the bad. I have met some lovely men online. People I truly consider friends. 

One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch, girl! Hang in there.


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## Cors (Jan 12, 2010)

Tau said:


> OMG!!!!OMG!!! I need to rant!!! AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGHGHHH!!! So in an effort to be pro-active about my non-existent dating life I joined two dating websites - DatingBuzz and BBW Cupid. OMG YOU GUYS THE CREEPS WHO LURK IN THESE PLACES!!! I've just had a conversation that has left me feeling dirty - like somebody shat on my soul  I've been on for a week now and I honestly just want to stop. And it's as if what I've written in my profile means nothing, I just wasted words because nobody reads it. The attitudes of entitlement are what has shocked me the most. These people DEMAND that I send pictures, they make statments like: I won't go anywhere near a girl if she doesn't have triple E boobs or You're cute but your thighs aren't fat enough!!  I'm just traumatised. I'll laugh about this later but right now I confess to feeling a fairly intense sense of despair.



Yikes! Reading all that makes me so angry! The nerve of some people, ugh. Guess there is not much to do but to block those creeps, and hope that at least *one* decent person responds to the ad you put effort into writing.


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## superodalisque (Jan 12, 2010)

Tau, my friendly advice is to get off the net and go out more IRL. do more things you like doing. you'll have a much better chance of meeting nice well adjusted men like that besides just having a lot more fun.


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## Tau (Jan 12, 2010)

Thanks for all the words of encouragement and advice ladies - i really, really appreciate it


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## chicken legs (Jan 12, 2010)

Tooz said:


> This is not meant to be disrespectful, but I have seen some women here really do expect far, far to much. I think it's not just fat women, though...I think everyone does it.




I agree. It doesnt matter if your fat, skinny, male, female, friend, family, or intimate lover..sometimes people want to much.

I have had friends, family, and boyfriends who want me to do whatever they want but never return the favor or if they do they make a big deal about. In the end I usually end up cussing them out and avoiding them..lol.

When it comes to dating, it does irk me that guys like me but can handle my lifestyle. Well, duh, if you dont like my lifestyle then that means you dont like ME. I mean alot a people like exotic cars...to look at..but can't handle the maintance of keeping one.


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## olwen (Jan 12, 2010)

Tau said:


> OMG!!!!OMG!!! I need to rant!!! AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGHGHHH!!! So in an effort to be pro-active about my non-existent dating life I joined two dating websites - DatingBuzz and BBW Cupid. OMG YOU GUYS THE CREEPS WHO LURK IN THESE PLACES!!! I've just had a conversation that has left me feeling dirty - like somebody shat on my soul  I've been on for a week now and I honestly just want to stop. And it's as if what I've written in my profile means nothing, I just wasted words because nobody reads it. The attitudes of entitlement are what has shocked me the most. These people DEMAND that I send pictures, they make statments like: I won't go anywhere near a girl if she doesn't have triple E boobs or You're cute but your thighs aren't fat enough!!  I'm just traumatised. I'll laugh about this later but right now I confess to feeling a fairly intense sense of despair.



Tau, believe me I know the feeling. That is exactly why I stopped using internet dating sites. Having to slog thru 99 guys to find that one who wouldn't talk to you like that just seemed too overwhelming and taxing to me. There's got to be a better way.


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## Victim (Jan 13, 2010)

Tau, just keep going out into the world (online and off) and make friends. One day you will find someone that thinks your thighs (and everything else) are the most luxurious on Earth not because they are fat, thin, or whatever they happen to like, but simply because they are YOURS.


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## Lovelyone (Jan 13, 2010)

bigmac said:


> *SNIP*
> 
> Another example is women who write off guys who don't fit a very narrow physical type. They use justifications like _"I like what I like"_ or "_I'm entitled to my preference_." True -- but its also true that these women are draining much of the water out of the dating pool.* I always find it ironic that women who don't want to be judged with regards to their physical appearance are often so quick to write off potential suitors based on physical characteristics.*



I don't usually like this kind of conversation cos everyone has their own opinion about it. I've found that if a fat woman is only attracted to physically fit and attractive guy, we are considered shallow. What's WRONG with wanting to be with someone that I find physically appealing and attractive? Don't I have the same right as you do to find someone who I find physically appealing? That's like telling the men here that they shouldn't like the fat women here cos...they are FAT. Should we all go bury our heads in the sand cos society says that fat women shouldn't be on the arms of someone fit and attractive? I should just take whomever comes along and be happy with the first person who is the least bit attracted to me, cos..after all, I probably couldn't do much better cos I am fat, right? I shouldn't want to be with someone that is as appealing to me as I might be to them cos SOCIETY thinks so, correct? Come on...physical attraction is not something that can be helped and I am CERTAINLY not going to apologize for it. Its true that I "like what I like"--so WHAT??


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## mossystate (Jan 13, 2010)

See, it doesn't really matter if something someone likes or dislikes is reasonable to anybody else. It is not about, " gee, am I being too demanding ". If one person says you are too demanding, or if one person consoles you and says you are ' reasonable '...then you will always be looking to others to vote on your life. Who cares if you are reasonable...or not.

Fuck that.

And...the whole " fat women should take whatever wants them ".

Fuck that...too.


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## vermillion (Jan 13, 2010)

personally...i would never want a guy to drop me off at the front of a store to go and park so I didn't have to walk from a parking spot...

this is the only example i could think of that i was totally like "whoa"
in "the reality of dating a ssbbw thread"...
and i'm not judging chicks who want and or require that...
i would just be completely turned off by a guy who put me on a pedestole and did everything every normal girl would do for themselves just because I'm fat and he is a FA...
at the same time...i like aggressive/dominant men so...


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## AuntHen (Jan 13, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> Tau, my friendly advice is to get off the net and go out more IRL. do more things you like doing. you'll have a much better chance of meeting nice well adjusted men like that besides just having a lot more fun.



totally agree


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## indy500tchr (Jan 13, 2010)

vermillion said:


> personally...i would never want a guy to drop me off at the front of a store to go and park so I didn't have to walk from a parking spot...
> 
> *this is the only example i could think of that i was totally like "whoa"
> in "the reality of dating a ssbbw thread"...*
> ...



I don't think that polite gesture is exclusive to dating a ss/bbw or putting them on a pedestal. My father and uncles have done the very thing my entire life w/ all the women in our family bbw's or not. I just think it's a gentleman's thing like opening a door or carrying heavy bags.

I could care less if they did that but always think it's sweet when they do.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jan 13, 2010)

vermillion said:


> personally...i would never want a guy to drop me off at the front of a store to go and park so I didn't have to walk from a parking spot...
> 
> this is the only example i could think of that i was totally like "whoa"
> in "the reality of dating a ssbbw thread"...
> ...



I actually prefer walking in together myself...unless the weather is bad and then I would like this gentlemanly offer....if he is driving.
I have done this very thing for my elderly mother and children, btw. If I was driving, I have also had my male companion get out to escort my children inside while I walked in by myself. If it's wet or cold, why does everyone have to be so longer than necessary?
Overall, it just seems like a consideration for another human type of thing.....not really a guy/girl must have situation.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Jan 13, 2010)

vermillion said:


> personally...i would never want a guy to drop me off at the front of a store to go and park so I didn't have to walk from a parking spot...
> 
> this is the only example i could think of that i was totally like "whoa"
> in "the reality of dating a ssbbw thread"...
> ...




Some men are gentlemen and have been taught to be considerate of others,that is why they do things like that..Even dominate men are gentlemen...

What gets me is the men that are so inconsiderate that they expect you to always put them and their needs first above your own..Sorry but to coin a phrase "f**k that sh*t"...If a man is not considerate of me and my needs as well as his own then he needs to find someone else to spend time with..


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## vermillion (Jan 14, 2010)

i get what all three of you are saying....

but getting that from the thread i got it from my automatic and rational assumption was that this was recommended or getting done for the female because she was fat....not because the guy was a gentleman.


i get the whole gentlemanly thing..i get the old person thing...i get the child thing...i get the weather thing...

but in any case...i would smile and say "i'd rather walk with you"


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## calauria (Jan 14, 2010)

ashmamma84 said:


> Yes.
> 
> I honestly think so many women are truly lonely. Some of those women are in relationships and some are not. Some of us really hate being single because we think it says something negative about us or it could be that we don't like being in the company of ourselves much so having someone else to focus on kinda puts a bandage on that gaping wound. Alot of women think that once they're in a relationship magically they'll become happy or a big source of their discomfort will disappear. I don't think we do our homework when it comes to getting to know ourselves and figuring out what we really want. A romantic relationship isn't a cure all or salve for our issues. I think that's why when things don't work out or when idealized versions of our partners come crashing down, we find ourselves so upset. I know some women who think once they find a partner their lives will finally begin and honestly, I feel sorry for them. Its a grave mistake to put that much stock into a relationship like that and frankly, I'd never want to have to live up to being my partner's everything. It would only be a set up for failure and huge disappointments. Growing and learning has taught me that even if I didn't have my partnership, I can and do derive pleasure from the other close relationships I have with friends and family.
> 
> My relationship gives me a great deal of satisfaction because its something I work at everyday. I don't think of my partner as my knight in shining armor or any of that. We share a life together, but we still make an effort to keep pieces of our individualism in tact. And its worked for us.



Do you think that is why a lot of guys "screw up?" Because of the pressure of knowing that they are their SO's everything it is overwhelming and scary for them??


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## spiritangel (Mar 6, 2010)

I have had good and bad dating experiences, like we all have 

but I am not looking for someone to complete me, and often look at a date as meeting a new person, who I may make a friendship or something more, hope they are the way they have been when we have talked ect 

but the cookie annalogy explains the whole person thing best for me I think

In this world we have whole cookies (whole people who are complete within themselves) and half cookies (always searching for someone to complete them never realising they are complete within themselves)ok so two half cookies may not work together oh they might for a time but ultimately you can’t put a half a cornflake cookie with an Anzac biscuit just wouldn’t work in the long run and a cookie and a half isn’t good for much either but if two whole cookies get together then they can be sandwiched together to make say a monte carlo, so if and when they do split they take away what they have learned rather than leaving crumbs and crumbling 

I try not to have any expectations because expectations only lead to dissappointment an open mind and heart will rarely be dissappointed on the other hand, even by a bad date because that is one less may be person but that is just my view


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 6, 2010)

spiritangel said:


> I have had good and bad dating experiences, like we all have
> 
> but I am not looking for someone to complete me, and often look at a date as meeting a new person, who I may make a friendship or something more, hope they are the way they have been when we have talked ect
> 
> ...



Good analogy- I'm glad you shared it


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## spiritangel (Mar 6, 2010)

thanks, it is something I strongly believe, goes with the happiness comes from within thing we need to be happy within ourselves before someone else can enhance that happiness

hugs


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 6, 2010)

spiritangel said:


> thanks, it is something I strongly believe, goes with the happiness comes from within thing we need to be happy within ourselves before someone else can enhance that happiness
> 
> hugs




Have to learn to love ourselves before someone else can


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## That Guy You Met Once (Mar 8, 2010)

It's not just fat women.


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## verucassault (Mar 8, 2010)

in regards to the OP, yes some fat women expect too much, but as other posters have said, most women in today's society do. dreaming up a perfect guy who exist only in their imagination or on episodes/pages of chick drivel

in regards to men liking someone despite their fat. i laugh at this all the time. men are usually always physically driven, at least when it comes to initial contact. if he does not find you attractive or appealing visually, chances are there is no way to convince him otherwise. no matter how much of a great friend, confidant, one of the boys, or how pretty your face is. if a man is not inclined to be attracted to fat women, your awesomeness will not change his nature. stop falling for your male bff and misinterpreting friendship for a relationship. men rarely have awesome banter and full disclosure, these dynamics are more indicative of a friendship

i really dont understand why more fat women dont present themselves as viable dating options, versus taking the back door and "convincing" a man that she worth more than friendship or a roll in the hay. sadly, once you fullfill a certain role in a man's life, its really hard to change positions. and i am not insulting men, i am just familiar with their limitations LOL. 

i personally dont even mess with dudes that arent fat admirers, or men who "do both" , there is alot to be said for a man who enjoys women at any size. and i wont share my body with anyone who simply tolerates fat. who focuses on lips and vagina and ignores rubbing my tummy or really embracing my ass. haha. it might make my pool of candidates smaller but that is what we should aim for, quality.


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## calauria (Mar 8, 2010)

Hmmmm....I feel as though being an African American woman, BBW, educated, multifaceted with a goofy sense of humor has made my dating pool very, very small to nonexistent.....

Most if not all, of the African American men I have dated say I act too much like a silly "white girl", and I don't act like a "real" Black woman. WTF does that mean? Hell, they insulted white women and me!!! 

And the other "Men of Color" and White men, just want to have sex with a Black girl or fat girl or both Black and fat girl or some dumb shit like that. 

And, I rarely meet many Bisexual or Lesbian women. Especially any who are attracted to me. I always get knocked in the "friend zone." I have noticed that a lot of bisexual or lesbian african american women prefer butch or stud and I'm way too girly girly.....

I've never had much luck with dating, anyway. I'm probably one of those women who aren't meant to be coupled with anyone. But, I love sex, I don't know how that's gonna work.......


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## chicken legs (Mar 8, 2010)

calauria said:


> Hmmmm....I feel as though being an African American woman, BBW, educated, multifaceted with a goofy sense of humor has made my dating pool very, very small to nonexistent.....
> 
> Most if not all, of the African American men I have dated say I act too much like a silly "white girl", and I don't act like a "real" Black woman. WTF does that mean? Hell, they insulted white women and me!!!
> 
> ...



My mom's side is from the south and I noticed the east coast is just really different than the west coast in regards to how someone is supposed to act.


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## verucassault (Mar 9, 2010)

calauria said:


> Hmmmm....I feel as though being an African American woman, BBW, educated, multifaceted with a goofy sense of humor has made my dating pool very, very small to nonexistent.....
> 
> Most if not all, of the African American men I have dated say I act too much like a silly "white girl", and I don't act like a "real" Black woman. WTF does that mean? Hell, they insulted white women and me!!!
> 
> And the other "Men of Color" and White men, just want to have sex with a Black girl or fat girl or both Black and fat girl or some dumb shit like that.



the comments you recieve from the AA males about acting like a white girl are totally idiotic and it says more about the type of men you choose to associate with versus the overall quality of men that actually exist.

i think your observations are similar to alot of women, but dont discount men of other races as just trying to test the waters. some do and some dont. again one has to be selective. 

i advise any woman who believes her dating pool as too shallow to expand. raise your age group, or try different races, look on other continents, etc.
i mean outside of the US there are men who put black bbw's on a pedestal as some sort of goddess mother earth LOL. but of course you have to find him, somehow :doh:

back in the day when there was only 10 million people in the world, the chances of finding your perfect match were pretty good.  now we have to be a bit more resourceful and inventive. complex problems call for complex solutions


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## LovelyLiz (Mar 9, 2010)

verucassault said:


> i personally dont even mess with dudes that arent fat admirers, or men who "do both" , there is alot to be said for a man who enjoys women at any size. *and i wont share my body with anyone who simply tolerates fat. who focuses on lips and vagina and ignores rubbing my tummy or really embracing my ass.* haha. it might make my pool of candidates smaller but that is what we should aim for, quality.



Bolded for truth. A woman can tell when her body is being "tolerated" over being "enjoyed" and that is a BAD feeling. Wanting someone who fully enjoys my body is the absolute barest minimum of requirements.


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## msbard90 (Mar 9, 2010)

mcbeth said:


> Bolded for truth. A woman can tell when her body is being "tolerated" over being "enjoyed" and that is a BAD feeling. Wanting someone who fully enjoys my body is the absolute barest minimum of requirements.



Of course! I want to be physically attractive to the person I'm dating. I was once told my most attractive feature was not my eyes, nor my legs or belly or boobs but it was my HAIR. I know I have nice hair, but I also knew he had nothing better to say, so thats what came out.:doh:


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## That Guy You Met Once (Mar 9, 2010)

calauria said:


> Most if not all, of the African American men I have dated say I act too much like a silly "white girl", and I don't act like a "real" Black woman. WTF does that mean? Hell, they insulted white women and me!!!



It's not like black guys don't get the same thing.


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## olwen (Mar 11, 2010)

Seventy-Seven said:


> It's not like black guys don't get the same thing.



She didn't not say black men didn't get the same kind of treatment. She's just talking about her experiences. Heck, I've had the same experience she has. It just is what it is.

But if you'd like to start a thread to discuss black dating, feel free to start one in the lounge.


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