# He's Trying to Force me and I f-ing hate crying



## ToniTails (May 18, 2009)

Oh I am soooo pissed right now. I just got home from seeing my psychiatrist. He asked about my weight today, which doesn't bother me a bit. I understand that people, especially doctors can be concerned. However, what he said today felt like discrimination to me. He told me that if I don't lose weight, he won't see me anymore-

I answered, "I'm not going to lose weight. If you have a problem with that then I will find someone else."

He said, "There is no one else in this county."

And he's right. There isn't. I'm a low income single mom who battles bi-polar along with post traumatic stress disorder. He knows I need the medication I take, and he knows that in this small town, there's no one else for me.

He said. "So what are you going to do?"

And I said, "I'll move somewhere where a doctor will see me."

"Why won't you lose weight?" he asked.

He obviously couldn't understand my answer because he had to ask 3 more times so he could here it again.

"My body and my looks are the one thing about myself I am happy with."

And that's the truth. Why can't he help me with the deeper issues? I live with horrible memories, loss of family members, just trying not to hate myself sometimes- you know? Why does he focus on the one thing that makes me happy and try to force me to change it.

I'm asking these rhetorically. I know the answer.

I am just so bawling right now. You should see the tear drops splashing off my keyboard. I feel like Alice in wonderland when she became a giant and then shrunk to drown in her own tears. lol

Well screw that shit! I hate crying. I think I should cry more, tho- it feels kinda good when the tears start drying, like you've washed something dirty out of you. 

Well, I've rambled on enough- i love to write, so if i get started, i may never stop, lol


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## Teleute (May 18, 2009)

<3<3<3

That really sucks, Toni. Maybe he'd be willing to work with you if you said you were trying to get healthier, even though for you that doesn't mean losing weight - just doing stretches and building some muscle like people have suggested in the other thread, which will make you feel better too. It might help him see that you're not trying to be self-destructive or anything with the weight gain. I'm sorry he was such a dick  I know what you mean about the feeling better after crying... it really does feel like you've washed away a bunch of ick. I hope things get better! *hugs*


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## TraciJo67 (May 18, 2009)

Unfortunately, his attitude is prevalent among medical professionals. He's assuming that your weight is tied in with your mental health, part and parcel. It would be difficult for you to find a "fat friendly" psychiatrist in a big city, far less a small town. That said, though ... I don't think you have to give up on him, at least, not yet. You can make it clear to him that your weight is simply not an issue that you will be addressing with him. If at that point he refuses to respect your wishes, then yes, you probably will need to find someone else to treat you  

The next time that you see him, maybe you could say something like this: "We'll have to agree to disagree about my weight. Right now, I need to know if this is going to be an insurmountable problem for us. Frankly, I'm having some difficulty trusting you, because I feel that your behavior is a reflection of fat prejudice. If you cannot accept my word that I am fine with my physical appearance, just as it is, then I'm afraid that this isn't going to work out for either of us. If that is the case, perhaps you can give me a referral to another psychiatrist."



00 toni lynn 00 said:


> Oh I am soooo pissed right now. I just got home from seeing my psychiatrist. He asked about my weight today, which doesn't bother me a bit. I understand that people, especially doctors can be concerned. However, what he said today felt like discrimination to me. He told me that if I don't lose weight, he won't see me anymore-
> 
> I answered, "I'm not going to lose weight. If you have a problem with that then I will find someone else."
> 
> ...


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## ToniTails (May 18, 2009)

oh i told him that I eat whole grain foods and exercise- he checked out my really good blood pressure and healthy sugar levels then said- oh well- lose weight or lose me as your doc--- thanks for the uplift


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## Tooz (May 18, 2009)

File a complaint with a medical board maybe? I don't know, but what he is doing is not sitting well with me. Maybe try articulating that your weight is not related to what you are seeing him for? :\


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## mergirl (May 18, 2009)

I find it really hard to believe that a psychiatrist would say this to you! Not that i dont believe you..i mean i find it incredulous! 
Psychiatrists are just shite doctors..ask to see a psychologist!! 
Sorry, your psych put you through shit when you were going through enough already. He is really bad at his job. Your weight has nothing to do with your mental health, Unless, YOU say it is!! The job of a good therapist is to help you to work through your problems in a way that is right for you, NOT to give you weird and unethical ultimatums. He should be fired!


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## Sandie_Zitkus (May 18, 2009)

WTF???????????????

I have been to many therapists and Psychiatrists in my life and not one has EVER- EVER said anything like this to me. Knowing me they probably figured I'd fly across the room and rip their throat out anyway. But sweetheart this is out of line. You do not have to take this!! 

You know an MD can subscribe the meds you need. 

I suggest reporting him and finding a good therapist who has a Psychiatrist that he/she consults with.

You do not have to take this - no one does!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG - I'm livid!!


Oh yeah - weight is never THE issue, it is a symptom of the issue. HOWEVER - it is up to YOU to decide if it's a problem not him!


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## TraciJo67 (May 18, 2009)

00 toni lynn 00 said:


> oh i told him that I eat whole grain foods and exercise- he checked out my really good blood pressure and healthy sugar levels then said- oh well- lose weight or lose me as your doc--- thanks for the uplift



Wait ... he actually told you to lose weight or else he wouldn't treat your mental health issues? Huh?!?! Red flags, waving. This is wildly unethical, and if he did in fact clearly say this to you, it is something that he needs to be held accountable for. Psychologists & psychiatrists have a code of ethics that they must adhere to. Telling a vulnerable patient to "lose weight or lose me" is a very, very clear violation of that code. I'm incredulous. This sounds almost too outrageous to be true.


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## Tina (May 18, 2009)

Is this ethical? I'm agreeing both with Tooz and Traci. I think you should look into seeing if he can be reported for this. Probably not, but it doesn't hurt to look. Fact is, though, he's of no real help to you if he holds such a bias against you. He sounds like a follower of John Bradshaw. Bradshaw has some very excellent theories on family dynamics and the roles each of us plays within our families and the balance of same. But he is an unabashed believer that if one is fat, one is automatically dysfunctional and mentally unhealthy. 

I know that in many states' counties there is a real shortage of doctors and therapists. In the area of California where I came from, now one needs to 'apply' to see a doc, and the doctor will interview and screen you to see if s/he will take you on as a patient. Ridiculous. Beyond that, those who are low income really have it hard. I don't know what your situation is, but if you _are_ able to move, and feel you can move to a place where you'll have better care, it might be worth really looking at.


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## mergirl (May 18, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Wait ... he actually told you to lose weight or else he wouldn't treat your mental health issues? Huh?!?! Red flags, waving. This is wildly unethical, and if he did in fact clearly say this to you, it is something that he needs to be held accountable for. Psychologists & psychiatrists have a code of ethics that they must adhere to. Telling a vulnerable patient to "lose weight or lose me" is a very, very clear violation of that code. I'm incredulous. This sounds almost too outrageous to be true.


Actually, i dont know about the American code of conduct because i havn't studied it. In the Uk the British Board of Psychologists have a code of ethics which clearly states that you cannot manipulate service users in any way OR try to convert a service user to your ethical viewpoint. He has clearly shat right over both of these RULES and many more besides. To put it bluntly!


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## Your Plump Princess (May 18, 2009)

...That HAS to be illegal.

....Discriminatory? Anything? :/ I Cannot BELOVE that shit. I'm so sorry Doll.


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## ToniTails (May 18, 2009)

The one thing I am proud of with this is that I stood my ground. I stated very clearly, "You need to know, I am not going to lose weight. If you don't want to treat me because of my weight, let me know."

Maybe what he realized what he did is unethical, because once i put it in those blunt terms he said- "Set and appt for next month and we'll see."

I once again told him that I won't lose weight.

Here's what bothered me about this. He knows I have nowhere else to go around here. This is the one clinic in town, and they require that you see him in order to receive the medications I need. He really is trying to FORCE this on me, and i tell you right now, without going into too much detail- I can't HANDLE being forced into anything.


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## mergirl (May 18, 2009)

00 toni lynn 00 said:


> The one thing I am proud of with this is that I stood my ground. I stated very clearly, "You need to know, I am not going to lose weight. If you don't want to treat me because of my weight, let me know."
> 
> Maybe what he realized what he did is unethical, because once i put it in those blunt terms he said- "Set and appt for next month and we'll see."
> 
> ...


You can get psychotropic/anti depressants/hypnotics/anti-psychotics/anti anxiety basically ANY mental health based meds from your GP. (esp. if they have been prescribed already by a psychiatrist). You need not be forced into anything. I'm not sure how it works over there regarding finding a new psych and how long the waiting list is though from what i know here, if you want actual help in the form of talking therapy then a counseller/cbt/psychologist are your best bet and psychiatrists are usually just in charge of medication. if you have the energy, i would take it further and report him because he is so out of order its untrue. His attitude could actually make people more mentally unwell.


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## SparklingBBW (May 18, 2009)

I'm in agreement with everyone here that it appears as if he is emotionally blackmailing you into doing what he says. That is clearly an ethical and moral violation of the doctor/patient dynamic. While I don't suggest doing anything that would garner more animosity from him, because if you do have to continue seeing him in the short term, that would only serve to make matters worse for you. 

HOWEVER, in order to encourage this situation to be very clear cut and un-ambiguous, and to give you solid "proof" of ethical line he is crossing, I do suggest that you write him a letter about how you are feeling and let him know that you expect a response from him in writing. That way, if he is really saying, my way or the highway, you have something tangable to show the medical board or your primary physician should you have to go elsewhere for your meds and therapy. 

.


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## Elfcat (May 18, 2009)

A representative from the American Psychiatry Association was at the NAAFA/ASDAH convention last year. I think perhaps a complaint to the APA about this individual would be in order. Not to mention the better business bureau. If he's the only one of his kind in the county, then everyone dealing with mental health at all knows who he is, so his reputation could be pretty wide open to a letter to the editor about your exchange with him. Abusive people rely on silence. He does not deserve that protection.


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## ButlerGirl09 (May 18, 2009)

Elfcat said:


> A representative from the American Psychiatry Association was at the NAAFA/ASDAH convention last year. I think perhaps a complaint to the APA about this individual would be in order. Not to mention the better business bureau. If he's the only one of his kind in the county, then everyone dealing with mental health at all knows who he is, so his reputation could be pretty wide open to a letter to the editor about your exchange with him. Abusive people rely on silence. He does not deserve that protection.



You said everything I was going to say. I'm just about to start my doctorate degree in Psychology and this past semester I took a class devoted to ethics in the profession. This is completely unacceptable!

I also agree with others that you should report this individual and see you primary care physician to prescribe the medicine for you in the meantime. Also, if your regular doctor is willing to prescribe the medicine then you can find a psychologist or other counselor rathe than a psychiatrist. I am thinking that this type of professional might be easier to find and more cost effective.


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## saucywench (May 18, 2009)

Color me livid, too. This sounds completely unethical. Trying to bully and intimidate a patient into losing weight? How is that compatible with the practice of psychiatry? 

I have been involved with more than my fair share of psychiatrists, both personally and professionally. Believe me, some are more screwy than their patients.

I agree with everyone else about reporting him. Do not remain silent, but do try to get him to put it in writing so you'll have hard evidence. And if he refuses to do that, then tell him to shut up about the weight loss and focus on what he's paid to do for you--which is to improve your mental health. If you tell him that you are fine with your weight and it does not affect your emotional well-being, he needs to drop it and never bring it up again.

I don't know diddly about California medical practices, but the way this is set up (that only he can prescribe psychiatric medications?) sounds kind of scammy to me. A general practitioner should be able to do that for you...unless you're on some kind of heavy-duty medication, perhaps...I don't know.

I would document everything that you recall him saying, the date and time of your visit, things of that nature.Then, find out how the clinic is set up. Is it a private practice, or is it run by the county/state/a hospital? Find out what entity is over it and who the administrators are. Get the names of his supervisors. This will determine who your report this to. But don't leave it at that. As others have suggested, contact other authorities. See if you have a medical board in the county you're in. See if he's a member. And he should be licensed by the state of California, so contact the state medical board. Do the same with the American Psychiatric Association and see if he has local affiliations. Many states and even smaller medical boards and organizations have websites where you can inquire about a physician's status...if he's ever come before the board for any type of violation or whatnot...I know ours (Arkansas) does, and it's very easy to use.

Try all of those avenues first. If you don't have some measure of success (I would think that unlikely) then I would contact the local news outlets (paper and television.) Finally, I believe NAAFA has a legal representative. Perhaps you could contact her/him and get some advice on how to handle this matter. At the very least (and this would be cheaper than moving), a letter from a lawyer to him might pack a punch and make him behave more professionally.

Keep us posted on developments. I'm sorry that you had to experience this, and I would be happy to help in any way I can. I just get furious when medical professionals treat patients in such a manner.


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## jewels_mystery (May 18, 2009)

OMG. Your doctor is an ass. I am so sorry you had such a bad experience. Please don't think all mental health workers are like this. I had a wonderful shrink. He never discussed my weight. All he did was suggest some alternative eating habits and said when I have a problem with my weight only then would we discuss it.


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## ToniTails (May 18, 2009)

You are getting the entire story- it's a very short one- took about ten mins



missaf said:


> I get to be the devil's advocate and say I don't think we're getting the entire story, but there are definitely other options as to finding help for your conditions.
> 
> Also consider that what may be manic depression can actually be endocrine issues like hypothyroidism and hypercortisolism, so seeing a real knowledgeable doctor of endocrinology or internal medicine might be a smart idea, too.


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## TraciJo67 (May 18, 2009)

Toni, there needs to be a trusting relationship between the two of you in order for you to get any benefit at all from his counsel. Clearly, if what you're telling us is an abridged version of the entire story, you're not going to benefit from continuing a 'therapeutic' relationship with this man. Please consider going elsewhere, and saving yourself a lot of time. I'm betting that there are other licensed professionals who could help you. He can prescribe your meds, and a counselor/psychologist or even LSW may be able to help with talk therapy. 



00 toni lynn 00 said:


> The one thing I am proud of with this is that I stood my ground. I stated very clearly, "You need to know, I am not going to lose weight. If you don't want to treat me because of my weight, let me know."
> 
> Maybe what he realized what he did is unethical, because once i put it in those blunt terms he said- "Set and appt for next month and we'll see."
> 
> ...


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## HottiMegan (May 18, 2009)

I know how hard it is to find help in a rural area. Do you have reliable transportation to be able to travel to another county or area? I usually have to travel 90 miles to Sacramento when i want to see the better doctors. I have even gone as far as Stanford for my son to see a highly recommended specialist. (200+ miles away) If it's only a monthly sort of deal, it wouldn't be too hard of a problem if you could find someone else, someone more supportive. 
I agree with what the others have said, he was completely off base and inappropriate. you might even want to try talking to the county's behavioral health department about what's going on with you. They might be able advocate for you or find you someone else.


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## ToniTails (May 18, 2009)

All this dude does is prescribe medication to me- it's how it works for low income peoples of the world--- we get the bottom of the barrel when it comes to stuff like this---

there really isn't another option for me until i move, but i do plan to try to get him to put it in writing- that's a good idea

and, honestly, there isn't more to the story- this is the first time he's ever brought up my weight and it was a ten minute discussion that was quite simple- it took me off guard


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## KendraLee (May 18, 2009)

WOW! Just WOW! Since he's prescribing meds it sounds like he's a psychiatrist and if I'm not mistaken I believe he takes the hippocratic oath. I am sure that what he has done to you has broken that oath. He has done you emotional harm by breaking your trust in him as a Dr and has basically medically blackmailed you. Even if he felt your weight was an issue with regards to your mental health as a dr he should know that loosing weight is not a fix to a persons deeper issues and that *often our weight is a symptom and not a cause of the problem*. He does not sound like a good psychiatrist no matter how you look at it. This is a link to your states medical board. File a complaint!
Barbara Johnston, Executive Director
2005 Evergreen Street, Suite 1200 
Sacramento, CA 95815
(916) 263-2389 / Fax (916) 263-2387
(800) 633-2322
www.caldocinfo.ca.gov


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## olwen (May 18, 2009)

mergirl said:


> I find it really hard to believe that a psychiatrist would say this to you! Not that i dont believe you..i mean i find it incredulous!
> Psychiatrists are just shite doctors..ask to see a psychologist!!
> Sorry, your psych put you through shit when you were going through enough already. He is really bad at his job. Your weight has nothing to do with your mental health, Unless, YOU say it is!! The job of a good therapist is to help you to work through your problems in a way that is right for you, NOT to give you weird and unethical ultimatums. He should be fired!



If she needs the meds, she can't see a psychologist since they can't prescribe them.

It pisses me off too. There has to be someone over that guy's head to make a complaint to. Unfortunately it's all too common a problem.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (May 18, 2009)

Fuck that bastard....tell him you won't see him again if he paid you. What a stupid, manipulative, controlling, uncaring piece of shit......enough said.


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## olwen (May 18, 2009)

I just wanna say, you all rock. Go team Dims!

Toni Lynn, I hope this all works out well. I'll keep my fingers crossed.


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## cinnamitch (May 19, 2009)

Ok let's think calmly here. The first thing you need to do is to talk to a community health nurse or if you are on welfare you have a caseworker. Did you know that you can arrange to have either a community nurse or your caseworker either come with you or arrange for someone to go with you to your appointment? If you are being treated for a mental condition , you are a vulnerable adult and are entitled to fair representation. I bet if you bring someone like that to an appointment, you won't be hearing any more ultimatums.


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## Blackjack (May 19, 2009)

If he has the Hippocratic Oath framed in his office, I'd advise taking it off of there and dropping it in his trash pail next time you're there. He doesn't seem to be using it.


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## Hathor (May 19, 2009)

I work in a psych hospital and no doctor by law is allowed to hold something like that over your head. He's in effect denying you medical help that's already been established that you NEED because of his personal prejudices. 

*I would contact the ADL or a woman's organization in your town to see what steps can be taken to take him to the cleaners. *


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## Hathor (May 19, 2009)

Please keep us updated too.


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## ToniTails (May 19, 2009)

Wow... I had no idea this was such a strong issue--- i was just pissed because he was trying to force me into something i didn't want to do and holding the fact that i had no other recourse over my head--- i plan to do something about it--- i am first going to speak to him and explain my feelings about it and the legal issues involved--- i don't want to necessarily ruin his practice--- i hated what he did, but he doesn't give me that "dickhead" vibe---

am i being too soft, in your opinion? I feel I should speak up about my concerns with his choice and see what his response is--- i was so taken aback from it that I wasn't prepared to present my side well


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## katherine22 (May 19, 2009)

00 toni lynn 00 said:


> Oh I am soooo pissed right now. I just got home from seeing my psychiatrist. He asked about my weight today, which doesn't bother me a bit. I understand that people, especially doctors can be concerned. However, what he said today felt like discrimination to me. He told me that if I don't lose weight, he won't see me anymore-
> 
> I answered, "I'm not going to lose weight. If you have a problem with that then I will find someone else."
> 
> ...



I am sorry to hear that this happened to you. If you do not want to see him anymore, you might think about seeing a family practioner who would ask for your records from the shrink. The family guy could prescribe your meds. You could go to the family guy for the meds and get counseling from someone else. No one has a right to treat you that way. Have you thought about seeing a psychiatric nurse practioner - they can perscribe meds too and are much more compassionate than shrinks. Psychiatrists have a shameful history in their mental health treatment - think pre-frontal lobotomy.


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## mergirl (May 19, 2009)

olwen said:


> If she needs the meds, she can't see a psychologist since they can't prescribe them.
> 
> It pisses me off too. There has to be someone over that guy's head to make a complaint to. Unfortunately it's all too common a problem.


Yeah, this is why i said that her doc will be able to prescribe any drugs especially if they have already been prescribed by a psych. As far as talking therapies go i suggested she went to a counseller, psychologist or cbt, depending on what her problems are because they seem to be more geared towards actually listening too.


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## Miss Vickie (May 19, 2009)

I'm with the others. This is almost unbelievable, but if you say it's true then we believe you. Definitely put everything in writing, and if he does fire you as a patient, my understanding of the law is that he has to do it in writing and give you notice. He can't just quit seeing you -- that's illegal and unethical. The fact that he's threatening you in this way is unethical and even if he doesn't follow up on his threats, he needs to be reported.

If it were me, I'd talk to the licensing board in your state and file a complaint. Tell them that he's threatening to stop treating you as a patient and find out what your rights are and how you file a complaint. Then, when you see him next time, if he sticks to this crazy bullshit ultimatum, then I'd tell him that you talked to the licensing board and are prepared to file a complaint against him.

As for who else can prescribe meds, while it's true that psychologists and therapists can't prescribe meds, nurse practitioners can. There is a subspecialty of ANP's which are Psychiatric Nurse Practitioners and they can prescribe psych meds. You may have better luck finding one in your area than another doc, and they're also more likely to accept Medicaid.

Good luck! Don't accept less than adequate treatment, Toni. You deserve it. My tax dollars pay for it! And bipolar disorder isn't caused by weight so he's totally all wet on that front. If he denies you medications based on your weight, he's crazy and a bad doctor. Plus, many of the psychotropic meds cause weight gain so even if you DID try to lose weight, then you might have a very hard time.

Please keep us posted, okay?


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## olwen (May 20, 2009)

mergirl said:


> Yeah, this is why i said that her doc will be able to prescribe any drugs especially if they have already been prescribed by a psych. As far as talking therapies go i suggested she went to a counseller, psychologist or cbt, depending on what her problems are because they seem to be more geared towards actually listening too.



Yes, I saw that post after I commented. I really have to get into the habit of reading thru threads before posting.


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## SocialbFly (May 20, 2009)

I have to agree with what others have said, he is using manipulation to get what *he *sees are desired results and it is both NOT therapeutic and NOT ethical, i say write a letter to the california board that he is registered with, if he is a licensed psych professional, start there...he is not a good doc or therapist.


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## moore2me (May 20, 2009)

00 toni lynn 00 said:


> All this dude does is prescribe medication to me- it's how it works for low income peoples of the world--- we get the bottom of the barrel when it comes to stuff like this---
> 
> there really isn't another option for me until i move, but i do plan to try to get him to put it in writing- that's a good idea
> 
> and, honestly, there isn't more to the story- this is the first time he's ever brought up my weight and it was a ten minute discussion that was quite simple- it took me off guard



Toni,

I can't believe that your inacessibility to good medical care and lack of income would put you at the mercy of practictioners that need their licenses yanked like this guy. This man is toxic and needs to be corrected. I think it is his professional licensing group's responsibility to take him to the woodshed. I would copy these pages of discussion and mail them to the state board that holds his license. If you need me to help you find out what the group is - I can let me know. I would also add needed details such as names, dates, etc. 

Next, do you have a GP doctor? Our state has a special service where people in remote locations can talk to university specialists over a closed circuit TV or computer link that is set up at a doctor's office or a hospital. I have watched some of these group sessions (not private ones) and you can talk to and see the doctor and she can talk to and see you. She can prescribe medications and a local GP can handle any needed physical tests such as blood pressure, heart rate, or blood sugars. Since this is thru our teaching hospital and public university, people are charged on their ability to pay.

Start checking with your state teaching hospitals to see what kiind of long distance learning programs and long distance healing programs they have.


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## LillyBBBW (May 20, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Fuck that bastard....tell him you won't see him again if he paid you. What a stupid, manipulative, controlling, uncaring piece of shit......enough said.



I have to say, I agree with my distinguished collegue here. I am digging all the advice I'm seeing here about getting stuff in writing and reporting him to the ADA. It needs to be done no matter what. I'm afraid though that this doctor has proven a serious bias as far as your care is concerned and can not under any circumstances be trusted. Even if he backs down and says, "Nevermind. ," it's clear the relationship has been compromised. He needs to be removed and you'll have to get another doctor. He's quacked.


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## mergirl (May 20, 2009)

Also, i ment to say that in the Uk anyway (you should find out about the American rules) It is illegal to withdraw medication for mental illnesses (like manic depression etc) that pose a 'risk' either to the service user or others. If medication is withdrawn and the service user is at risk of self harm then the Doctor can actually be struck off, sued n quartered! You know though, i think the fact that he has threatened you by saying he wont provide medication which basically could be lifesaving means (if you feel up to it) you should take this further. He seems like he is power hungry to the detrement of the people he is ment to be 'helping' and i dont think you will be the only one. 
I really dont get why he would ask you to lose weight when he is treating you for being bi-polar/for pts disorder?. The ONLY reason possible could be a control trip. It is illegal for him to withdraw drugs such as 'lithium' etc that control manic depressive disorders, though he is within his right to withdraw over a period of time, anti-anxiety meds such as diaxipam if he feels its in your best interests. The drugs he withdraws are dependant on what they are for, the reason he said he would withdraw them is just NOT allowed. Oh I feel so ANGRY!!!!! Who is he?? Name and shame him!! That is allowed!! We shall all write to him angry emails telling him EXACTLY what we think!


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## mergirl (May 20, 2009)

In fact phone oprah!!!!


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## Risible (May 20, 2009)

mergirl said:


> In fact phone oprah!!!!



That's a great idea, mergirl. Let the Oprah show know of this injustice to you!


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## SocialbFly (May 21, 2009)

Risible said:


> That's a great idea, mergirl. Let the Oprah show know of this injustice to you!



You know, i didn't think of it, but honestly, a call to your local news station might be in order. we had a bad family in st louis who got everything they wanted from the hospital by news blackmail...you know, do what i want or i will call the news, maybe you should call the local news and speak with them, they may rattle the collective trees with you...


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## mergirl (May 21, 2009)

Risible said:


> That's a great idea, mergirl. Let the Oprah show know of this injustice to you!


I'm not sure is this is sarcastic or not but i have a feeling it is because of the "injustice to you" and the excaimation mark! It IS an injustice to me and to all of us. I was being serious about writing and saying how we all feel about it. What is the point of an Fa and Fat community if we cant get proactive when stuff like this happens? Why NOT call oprah? I mean, tell the media, newspapers, tv etc. Perhaps if we highlight this sort of shit is happening to fat people...it might happen a bit less.. Or we can just sit about snarking at each other from behind our computer screens.


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## TraciJo67 (May 21, 2009)

mergirl said:


> I'm not sure is this is sarcastic or not but i have a feeling it is because of the "injustice to you" and the excaimation mark! It IS an injustice to me and to all of us. I was being serious about writing and saying how we all feel about it. What is the point of an Fa and Fat community if we cant get proactive when stuff like this happens? Why NOT call oprah? I mean, tell the media, newspapers, tv etc. Perhaps if we highlight this sort of shit is happening to fat people...it might happen a bit less.. Or we can just sit about snarking at each other from behind our computer screens.



Mer, I think the point was that the injustice here is to Toni. 

Of course, a broader point would be that Oprah is a fat-hating fool, and would likely side with the psychiatrist


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## mergirl (May 21, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Mer, I think the point was that the injustice here is to Toni.
> 
> Of course, a broader point would be that Oprah is a fat-hating fool, and would likely side with the psychiatrist


Absolutely. This particular injustice is to Toni, thought i'm sure it isn't all that uncommon and the fact that this particular psychiatrist will be allowed to treat other women in the same way is just infuriating. If the same thing is going to happen again and again, then it is a social injustice and not just a subjective incident.
To be honest the 'Oprah' comment was just to highlight how far it should be taken because i really do think it is a really serious violation of human rights. I guess Oprah isn't the queen of the world after all .. (though perhaps Tyra Banks should be informed, Oracle of all that she is!  )
I guess at the end of the day it really is up to Toni as to how far she thinks this should be taken but if she does want to take it further then i think we should support her in whatever way we can.


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## Tau (May 21, 2009)

Chick, what he has done is completely unethical and you need to take action against him! I havent read every post in this thread cos i was just so horrified by your first post so if I'm repeating something somebody else has already said I apologise. I've just called my sister - she's a doctor - and she says that if a doctor said what he did to you in our country you could report him to the Health Professionals Council of South Africa and legal action would be taken against him on your behalf. I didn't check to see what country you're from but there must be a body like this where-ever you're at. His behaviour is completely unethical and you don't have to stand for his shit. Bi-polar disorder has absolutely NOTHING to do with weight and, in some patients, the medication administered (which tends to be Lithium) causes the weight gain so, essentially, dude is talking shit. I'm seriously, seriously shocked by this  I really hope you find a solution *hugz*


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## Tau (May 21, 2009)

http://www.hpc.state.tx.us/

Hey - did a quick google search and turned up something in Texas - not sure which state you but i figure if you search by state you should be able to find who regulates the medical professionals in your neck of the wood. Please let us know how it turns out!


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## Risible (May 21, 2009)

mergirl said:


> I'm not sure is this is sarcastic or not but i have a feeling it is because of the "injustice to you" and the excaimation mark! It IS an injustice to me and to all of us. I was being serious about writing and saying how we all feel about it. What is the point of an Fa and Fat community if we cant get proactive when stuff like this happens? Why NOT call oprah? I mean, tell the media, newspapers, tv etc. Perhaps if we highlight this sort of shit is happening to fat people...it might happen a bit less.. Or we can just sit about snarking at each other from behind our computer screens.



I am serious. I do think it's a great idea. I'm no fan of Oprah and I don't watch her show, but years ago I joined a group of NAAFA female members who were invited to the show to discuss fat discrimination; Toni's experience *is* an injustice and Oprah's show would lend mighty support to her cause. I think it's worth a call.


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## mergirl (May 21, 2009)

Risible said:


> I am serious. I do think it's a great idea. I'm no fan of Oprah and I don't watch her show, but years ago I joined a group of NAAFA female members who were invited to the show to discuss fat discrimination; Toni's experience *is* an injustice and Oprah's show would lend mighty support to her cause. I think it's worth a call.


I think we should ask Toni first. I dont actually watch oprah either and i'm not actually even sure to get to discuss something like that on those types of shows. Even if not Oprah, then i'm sure this situation is serious enough to warrant tv/radio/newspaper coverage, as it seems the only way quacks like this are stopped is when they are named and shamed! Again, this is up to Toni ..if she wants us or herself to take it further.


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## Brenda (May 21, 2009)

Toni,

The fact is since this is the only doctor you can see in your county and he did set another appointment for you it is best to play it cool. If he brings up weight again I would let him know the topic is off limits and proceed from there. 

You could write his licensing board but he is not likely to lose his license over telling you to lose weight and once you take an action against him he may totally dump you as a patient. The truth is it would be your word against his and I seriously doubt the media would be interested in this story because fat is an acceptable bias in this country.

Good luck

Brenda


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## mergirl (May 21, 2009)

See, i was worried it would be a -His word against yours scenario. Though, he may well have treated others just the same. 
Maby try to find a Doctor or Nurse who can prescribe your meds before you do/say anything rash. 
You are right Brenda..we are (me especially) are getting all pissed off and carried away.. I think its understandable to bay for blood but not at the expense of Toni's mental health.


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## Tad (May 22, 2009)

I think Brenda has some good points there. In small towns it can be particularly hard to buck the authorities that are in place. Any other medical professional you talk to could talk to him, for example, so you probably don't want to piss him off unless you know you have a very solid position.

Things I'd think are worth doing are listed below. Disclaimer: I don't know you, I don't know him, these are all just based on my experience and observations, and could be as sensible as spitting into a hurricane. Read them, but think them over before you choose to follow any of them.

_Category 1: information is power, so take some of the power back_

- google his name, and see other patients are writing about him, and what they've said. Might be nothing, or it could be interesting in any number of ways.

- start looking at who else in town could prescribe your meds. I would think that a pharmacist could tell you that. Could just say "I'm really just seeing (your phych) for my meds prescriptions now. I'm just curious, for (your medicine) do I have to see him, or could my family doctor or someone keep me on it, now that I'm started?"

- If you find others who could prescribe, maybe make that first call to find out if they are taking patients, what it would take to get taken on by them, etc.
_
Category 2: Last time he caught you by surprise, this time he won't_

- Make a list of your reasons for not trying to lose weight at this time (you don't have to deal with 'forever' right now, just the next few months). Writing down things like that can be a good exercise for anyone, but in this case keep it, think about it, and take it with you to your next appointment.

- Practice saying certain key phrases out loud. Like "I don't want to lose weight at the moment." or "That is not an acceptable condition for cutting loose a patient" or "would you be willing to put that in writing?"

- Make a support plan before your next appointment. Be it some people here that you can PM, or someone local you can call, be set up to get some positive reinforcement shortly before you go see him.

- Make a list of any other questions or comments you want to ask or make around the subject of weight, even if they don't seem very important. In fact, even if you don't want to, make a list. Then if he starts pushing you, and tries to control that conversation, you simply say "Hold on, I have a list of things about this I wanted to talk about" and insist on going through your list. That puts a lot of the control of the conversation back in your hands.

_Category 3: Show you are listening_

- You might not want to lose weight now, but if it is a major issue with him, it will be hard to take off the table completely. And to be fair, I'd think most phychologists of young women who have been steadily gaining and who are super-sized would want to talk about weight at least some. Maybe give him a timeline "I'll be willing to talk about my weight, but not about losing weight, starting in September. Next year we can talk about the losing issue again, OK?" When it comes up again your answer may still be "no," but at least he knows you are not totally refusing to talk about it.

- Ask why he specifically said he won't keep you if you don't lose weight. There is some chance that it is not what you'd expect (i.e. all the drugs that you need can have a side effect of weight gain, and is worried about a law suit if he keeps you on them and you have weight related health problems arise soon). Even if it is what you expect, thank him for explaining and say you are glad that he explained, and you'll consider what he said.

_Category 4: Miscellaneous ideas_

- A book I've recommended around here a lot of times is called "The Gentle Art of Verbal Self-Defense" by Suzette Haden-Elgin. It is great for learning how to deal with people who use words to bully others. If you have a local library they may have it (she wrote a few follow-up books, which are all also fine books, but I'd start with the first book if you can get it). There is some really good stuff in there (good for dealing with all sorts of people who get on you about your weight, too!)

- Within the reasonable limits of what you can do, given who you are and where you are in your life, look at if there are steps you can take to take better care of your health than you are doing. Can you cut back on salt, eat more vegetables, do some chair exercises every evening, etc. First of all those are all good for their own sake, but they are also things you can point out to your psych, or others, as steps you are taking to take care of your health.

- Look through your wardrobe, and choose some outfit (which fits well), which you think has the most serious, sober, appearance, even if you aren't crazy about it. Make sure it is ready to wear for your next appointment. It might mellow his mood more than you think, if you come across more as "serious young woman" than "fun-loving kid." Some people really react to surface appearances, I don't know if he is one of them, but it can't hurt to try and see how it works.

- Make sure to enjoy the summer weather and have lots of fun! Living well is still the best retort to most naysayers


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## StarWitness (May 22, 2009)

I don't know what I could say to follow up edx's wonderful advice, but I just wanted to let you know that I think your psychiatrist is being an ass and I hope you're successful in reasoning with him. *hugs*


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## Laura2008 (May 25, 2009)

Next visit, take in a small tape recorder and record everything he says to you. If he doesn't bring up the weight issue, ask him if he has decided to keep seeing you as a patient even though you decided not to lose weight. Get him to repeat what he told you before. I don't think taping someone without their knowledge will hold up in court but you could always take it to the media outlets if he drops you as a patient.

Good luck!


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## Risible (May 25, 2009)

Laura2008 said:


> Next visit, take in a small tape recorder and record everything he says to you. If he doesn't bring up the weight issue, ask him if he has decided to keep seeing you as a patient even though you decided not to lose weight. Get him to repeat what he told you before. I don't think taping someone without their knowledge will hold up in court but you could always take it to the media outlets if he drops you as a patient.
> 
> Good luck!



Actually, in the state of California, tape recording a confidential conversation without consent of all parties is illegal (California penal code section 632), so if you want to do this, get his consent - on tape.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (May 25, 2009)

Toni, tell that man that I am coming over there to donkey punch him....you may record me doing so


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## ToniTails (May 26, 2009)

Here's what I am going to do... I'm going to talk to him about my feelings on this issue- When he responds- if it is to the negative- I am going to ask if he minds whether I record the conversation- this will be telling- if he says hell no then he knows what he's doing is wrong- if he says go for it, he's ignorant and i have it on tape- 

i know i sounded all blustery on here, but trust me- in front of him i was as cool as a cucumber- i react well in hard situations-

i just knew i could pour myself out with all the ugliness that real pain presents and be accepted here- this forum is a blessing, especially in that respect-

thank you all for caring enough to send hugs, warm wishes, and advice my way--- also thanks for the humor- that's my favorite metamorphosis; from crap to funny

I'm determined to somehow make a difference-

xo


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## ToniTails (May 26, 2009)

yea well- i'm looking forward to hearing his valid reasons


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## fatgirlflyin (May 26, 2009)

Laura2008 said:


> Next visit, take in a small tape recorder and record everything he says to you. If he doesn't bring up the weight issue, ask him if he has decided to keep seeing you as a patient even though you decided not to lose weight. Get him to repeat what he told you before. I don't think taping someone without their knowledge will hold up in court but you could always take it to the media outlets if he drops you as a patient.
> 
> Good luck!




So basically entrap him?


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## TraciJo67 (May 26, 2009)

A psychiatrist would not consent to allowing a session to be tape recorded. A psychiatrist has an ethical and legal responsibility to ensure that records of all sessions are kept private and confidential. I think that most would err on the side of caution even when the patient requests that the sessions be recorded. There would be no way to ensure that the patient could or would keep that information private, either by intent or carelessness. And since you are by default categorized as a vulnerable adult, or could be reasonably construed as such by a court of law, your psychiatrist would likely have concern about your ability to make an informed decision and understand the consequences of those records being discovered and disclosed. I am not a psychiatrist, but I work with vulnerable adults who provide sensitive and protected information, and I would never consent to a taped conversation with a client. A refusal to do so shouldn't be misunderstood as having something to hide -- it is fear of a possible HIPAA or ethics violation, both of which carry serious (career-altering) consequences for the professional.


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## ToniTails (May 26, 2009)

i wonder why he keeps the door wide open when we talk then?


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## TraciJo67 (May 26, 2009)

00 toni lynn 00 said:


> i wonder why he keeps the door wide open when we talk then?



If there is a possibility of other people (those not bound by HIPAA laws) overhearing, then he shouldn't be doing that.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (May 26, 2009)

I think the guy is attracted to her....hence, is trying to manipulate her. 

For whatever that thought is worth....just thought I would toss it out there.


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## Laura2008 (May 26, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> So basically entrap him?




I didn't realize that it is illegal to record someone w/o their consent in CA so my comment doesn't apply to her situation anymore. Although part of me feels the way he is treating her taping him would be justified. Call it entrapment but he crossed an ethics line with giving her a weight loss ultimatum.


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## fatgirlflyin (May 26, 2009)

Laura2008 said:


> I didn't realize that it is illegal to record someone w/o their consent in CA so my comment doesn't apply to her situation anymore. Although part of me feels the way he is treating her taping him would be justified. Call it entrapment but he crossed an ethics line with giving her a weight loss ultimatum.



I agree that he crossed a line (ethics I dont know), I hate the idea that he gave her an ultimatum. I think that a Dr. should provide care, after all that's what they take an oath to do right?

Doctors don't recieve much training about obesity, other than fat = bad. So maybe he thinks he's doing right by her. Who knows? Hopefully a long talk with the dr will get everything straightened out. Or maybe a new dr is in order.


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## saucywench (May 27, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I think the guy is attracted to her....hence, is trying to manipulate her.
> 
> For whatever that thought is worth....just thought I would toss it out there.


That thought has crossed my mind more than once, GEF--just wanted to let you know you're not alone thinking that.


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## QuasimodoQT (May 30, 2009)

If you DO have to go back to this man, I'd suggest pulling out a recording device and getting any future assholishness on record. Have the conversation again, and either way you have proof- if he persists, or if he backpedals.

I'm so sorry. I understand losing faith with docs in general. Hope the situation resolves to your advantage.


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## ToniTails (Jun 5, 2009)

Wanted to update everyone-

I agree that having my medication is very important, but I do have principles as well- and no one is going to dictate what I do with my own body- especially using these fear tactics. 

I decided to talk to him, and I think it actually did some good. Since recording isn't an option and he leaves the door wide open, I spoke loudly. Not a yell, of course- but my voice carried.

I broached the subject before he could. I asked him in so many words if he'd thought over his ultimatum because I wasn't going to cave to it.

He apologized immediately. His attitude has taken a complete turn. He may not have learned much in our interactions, but one thing he did get out of it, is that I am a strong woman who will not be manipulated by him.


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## ToniTails (Jun 6, 2009)

that's a catch 22



missaf said:


> Because avoiding the appearance of impropriety is important. Even when I speak in the office of fellow male co-workers I always leave the office door open, even when they ask me to close it.


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## Laura2008 (Jun 6, 2009)

00 toni lynn 00 said:


> Wanted to update everyone-
> 
> I agree that having my medication is very important, but I do have principles as well- and no one is going to dictate what I do with my own body- especially using these fear tactics.
> 
> ...



Glad to hear there was some improvement on his part! Hopefully you will end up having a good doctor/patient relationship with him.


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## olwen (Jun 6, 2009)

00 toni lynn 00 said:


> Wanted to update everyone-
> 
> I agree that having my medication is very important, but I do have principles as well- and no one is going to dictate what I do with my own body- especially using these fear tactics.
> 
> ...



Good to hear it worked out. Whatever you said, bravo.


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## mergirl (Jun 8, 2009)

00 toni lynn 00 said:


> Wanted to update everyone-
> 
> I agree that having my medication is very important, but I do have principles as well- and no one is going to dictate what I do with my own body- especially using these fear tactics.
> 
> ...


Yeah good on you missus!! well done! xx


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## Tad (Jun 8, 2009)

Good stuff! Sometimes it is amazing what a difference simply showing you aren't easily pushed around can make....I hope his new attitude sticks!


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## Russell Williams (Jun 30, 2009)

When the doctor/psychiatrist says you should diet ask him why he wants you to be fatter.

If he wonders at the statment point out to him that for the last 40 years people have been spending more and more money on diet plans, programs, and products. At the same time Americans have been getting fatter. Ask him what that tells about the effectiveness of dieting programs.

If he says that you can do it where other fail ask him what in your personality makes him believe that you will be better at it them most Americians and most of the patients he sees. (I have read that the long term success rate of dieting is about 5% or 1 in 20.

If he continues to push ask him what program is best. If he tells you to choose a good one point out that you do not know how to read an article in a psychological journal and determine if the research and statistical analysis is good. (Even if you do have that skill let him do the work)

As him to tell you which program is the best. If he names a program ask if, in the interest of making American more healty, he minds you posting all over the internet that doctor so and so has said that such and such a program is the best and that anyone on any other program should drop out and go to the program you doctor recommend.

When faced with the prospect of major diet companies asking him to prove that he has the research to back up his statement he may decide to back away.

Of course he may also refuse to see you again but that is the prospect you are already facing. 

Russell Williams


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## exile in thighville (Jul 6, 2009)

this guy acted like a piece of shit and i'm very sorry for this experience.


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