# Vegetarianism



## Sasquatch! (Aug 16, 2010)

So....who here eats vegetarians?


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## Esther (Aug 16, 2010)

I don't believe in vegetables or anything that eats vegetables. I only eat CARNIVORES


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## CastingPearls (Aug 16, 2010)

Sorry dear. I am such a carnivore, I dream of meat.


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## kinkykitten (Aug 16, 2010)

If there is any body who does eat vegetarians i'm keeping on the low down.. I don't want to eaten


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## Zowie (Aug 16, 2010)

Where's that sneaky Rabbit when you need her?

I'm not against vegetarianism, but I don't think it's something I would do for myself full-time, it just takes too much creativity. BUT I will make an effort to buy more humanely raised animals, even if it's ridiculously more expensive.


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## RJI (Aug 16, 2010)

I do I do, seriously best tasting vag$%a ever! 

You are what you eat


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## Sasquatch! (Aug 16, 2010)

RJI said:


> I do I do, seriously best tasting vag$%a ever!
> 
> You are what you eat



Does that make you a C***?  *cough* Couldn't resist.


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## RJI (Aug 16, 2010)

Sasquatch! said:


> Does that make you a C***?  *cough* Couldn't resist.



absolutely


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## BR25 (Aug 16, 2010)

Vegetarians wouldn't be tasty. Too many vegetables in their system.


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## CastingPearls (Aug 16, 2010)

True. I don't think I'd ever really be full.


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## BR25 (Aug 16, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> True. I don't think I'd ever really be full.



Not to mention there would be very little flavoring. Unless of course they want to soak in a marinade over night lol.


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## CastingPearls (Aug 16, 2010)

No, honey. Fat is where the flavor's at.


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## BR25 (Aug 16, 2010)

I'm unlike a lot of people. I prefer a lean, non fatty piece of meat. At least as far as eating goes lol.


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## spiritangel (Aug 16, 2010)

I love vegetarian food and used to be semi veg, eat more meat than I used to these days but still love my veggies and make at least one or two veggie meals a week or so


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## rabbitislove (Aug 16, 2010)

Esther said:


> I don't believe in vegetables or anything that eats vegetables. I only eat CARNIVORES



NOM NOM NOM!!!

Vegetarian for a year and some change, vegan for a day. Im pretty sure Im going to make the switch to veganism, as much as it will ruin my chance of getting with any fat guy ever. Animal biproducts have been giving me major gut rot, and Im a sucker for sad looking penned up animals.


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## BR25 (Aug 16, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> NOM NOM NOM!!!
> 
> Vegetarian for a year and some change, vegan for a day. Im pretty sure Im going to make the switch to veganism, as much as it will ruin my chance of getting with any fat guy ever. Animal biproducts have been giving me major gut rot, and Im a sucker for sad looking penned up animals.



I don't think I could ever be a vegan. It is way too limited in what I could eat.


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## rabbitislove (Aug 16, 2010)

I thought that too, which is why I started out vegetarian, but it just takes creativity. Its a pain in the ass, but I like pretending to be Macgyver whenever I enter the kitchen so Im having a blast. Hahhaa.


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## RJI (Aug 16, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> NOM NOM NOM!!!
> 
> Vegetarian for a year and some change, vegan for a day. Im pretty sure Im going to make the switch to veganism, as much as it will ruin my chance of getting with any fat guy ever. Animal biproducts have been giving me major gut rot, and Im a sucker for sad looking penned up animals.




This fat guy says go for it... we don't love you for what you eat.


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## BR25 (Aug 16, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> I thought that too, which is why I started out vegetarian, but it just takes creativity. Its a pain in the ass, but I like pretending to be Macgyver whenever I enter the kitchen so Im having a blast. Hahhaa.



I do love Macgyver. You certainly know how to make your point lol.


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## Sasquatch! (Aug 16, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> I thought that too, which is why I started out vegetarian, but it just takes creativity. Its a pain in the ass, but I like pretending to be Macgyver whenever I enter the kitchen so Im having a blast. Hahhaa.



Veganism is a piece of cake. And I hear you on the digestive health thing.


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## Amaranthine (Aug 16, 2010)

Sasquatch! said:


> Veganism is a piece of cake. And I hear you on the digestive health thing.



Good god do you know how hard it is to make a GOOD vegan cake? *sigh* It is not an easy task.


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## Sasquatch! (Aug 16, 2010)

Amaranthine said:


> Good god do you know how hard it is to make a GOOD vegan cake? *sigh* It is not an easy task.



Yes  Make mine an extra large slice!


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## BR25 (Aug 16, 2010)

Now I want cake.


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## Amaranthine (Aug 16, 2010)

My house is gonna be cake central tomorrow- two quarter sheets, whipped cream frosting, one marble, one white. Not vegan, but utterly delicious.


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## RJI (Aug 16, 2010)

only time I eat butter is in cake...mmmmmm


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## Sasquatch! (Aug 16, 2010)

The only time I eat cake is in cake.


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## BR25 (Aug 16, 2010)

Does anyone ever turn down a piece of cake.


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## Sasquatch! (Aug 16, 2010)

When the cake is a lie?


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## BR25 (Aug 16, 2010)

Sasquatch! said:


> When the cake is a lie?



You mean like a rice cake. The biggest name tease in the world of food lol.


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## Sasquatch! (Aug 16, 2010)

Rice cakes are delicious! With a nice bit of houmous, tomato etc.... heck yum.


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## BR25 (Aug 16, 2010)

Sasquatch! said:


> Rice cakes are delicious! With a nice bit of houmous, tomato etc.... heck yum.



You know how to fancy them up. I've only just eaten the rice cakes.


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## Paquito (Aug 16, 2010)

If you try to take away my bacon, I will fucking cut you until you bleed vegetables.

Skanks.


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## Amaranthine (Aug 16, 2010)

Speaking of bacon- I feel like a lot of people who are vegetarians just eat soy products that are shaped and flavored like meat. It's like...vegetables? Who eats those anymore. Especially when there's bacon shaped, hyper-salted soy protein to be had!


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## MasterShake (Aug 16, 2010)

I've thought about switching to a vegetarian-oriented diet, mainly for heart health and focusing on fewer, better quality meats at the expense of having it every day.

I've also thought about giving up (or at least severly cutting back) on dairy, which for me would mostly mean a lot less cheese. I don't think I'm lactose intolerant, but I feel like it just doesn't sit right with me. Although I prolly could never really give up chocolate or ice cream.

I think the two biggest obstacles to more (Americans) people adopting vegetarian diets is the conditioning to view meat as the central element of most dishes and meals, which makes meatless plates seem off, and this insistence on making "vegetarian" versions of meat, like veggie burgers and soy this and that.

Fex, I absolutely love a lot of Indian vegetarian meals (although I really don't like Indian cheeses at all). If Americans were more used to using similar spices as a daily part of their veggie dishes, I don't think it'd be so weird.

/off the soapbox.


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## Esther (Aug 17, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> NOM NOM NOM!!!
> 
> Vegetarian for a year and some change, vegan for a day. Im pretty sure Im going to make the switch to veganism, as much as it will ruin my chance of getting with any fat guy ever. Animal biproducts have been giving me major gut rot, and Im a sucker for sad looking penned up animals.




Joking aside... I haven't eaten poultry, pork or beef in eight years. Not quite a vegetarian, because I eat seafood once or twice a month usually. But I have been thinking of cutting out seafood and then gradually switching to vegan as well. I always thought I wouldn't be able to do it... but so many of my friends are vegan now, I am starting to think I could handle it.


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## WillSpark (Aug 17, 2010)




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## MasterShake (Aug 17, 2010)

WillSpark said:


>


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## WillSpark (Aug 17, 2010)

MasterShake said:


>



Hey. It didn't make it. Blame the google image search generator. =P


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## rabbitislove (Aug 17, 2010)

Amaranthine said:


> Speaking of bacon- I feel like a lot of people who are vegetarians just eat soy products that are shaped and flavored like meat. It's like...vegetables? Who eats those anymore. Especially when there's bacon shaped, hyper-salted soy protein to be had!



I agree. I think people fuck up the vegetarian and vegan thing when they come to it by eating an unhealthy diet with meat, and few veggies. One of the reasons PETA pisses me off royally is that they encourage unhealthy vegan options for the sake of animals. How can you care for other beings on this planet if you cant care for yourself? Your health as a HUMAN ANIMAL is important.

Okay, end hippie rant. Sasquatch! your rice cake recipe sounds AMAZING! Im going to make that soon  Esther, have I told you lately that I love you. And Shake, shake shake shake, you really cant go one second without turning me on can you?


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## bigpulve (Aug 17, 2010)

vegatarian + weight lifting = not a good combination.


I made some tasty chicken burgers today.


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## Sasquatch! (Aug 17, 2010)

bigpulve said:


> vegatarian + weight lifting = not a good combination.
> 
> 
> I made some tasty chicken burgers today.



1--I've seen vegan weightlifters in the past 

2--Hoorah for chicken burgers.



Speaking of burgers.....anyone here like veggie ones?


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## Amaranthine (Aug 17, 2010)

bigpulve said:


> vegatarian + weight lifting = not a good combination.
> 
> 
> I made some tasty chicken burgers today.



When I was vegan, I did weight lifting and varsity track. There are PLENTY of great vegetarian (and vegan) ways to get protein to rebuild those muscles and keep in good shape. In fact, I'm still quite active (I really do enjoy strength training and sprinting) and I plan to go vegan again once I'm in college, and my options are more open than at home. It's definitely possible if you know your options. 

But, chicken burgers do sound rather good


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## Lil BigginZ (Aug 17, 2010)

can you guys eat animal crackers?


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## Zowie (Aug 17, 2010)

Sasquatch! said:


> Speaking of burgers.....anyone here like veggie ones?



The store bought brands are always waaaaay too processed. But I've come across a few recipes that were quite delicious, using portobello mushrooms, beans, lentils, all those good things.

I always kind of ruined the healthiness by melting Kraft cheese on top.


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## Sasquatch! (Aug 17, 2010)

bionic_eggplant said:


> The store bought brands are always waaaaay too processed. But I've come across a few recipes that were quite delicious, using portobello mushrooms, beans, lentils, all those good things.
> 
> I always kind of ruined the healthiness by melting Kraft cheese on top.



All that went through my mind as I read that was several pointes of cheese playing German industrio-pop.


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## Zowie (Aug 17, 2010)

Sasquatch! said:


> All that went through my mind as I read that was several pointes of cheese playing German industrio-pop.



I'm a sucker for German industrio-pop AND industrio-cheese.


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## Sasquatch! (Aug 17, 2010)

bionic_eggplant said:


> I'm a sucker for German industrio-pop AND industrio-cheese.



I think I'm in skank-love.


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## rabbitislove (Aug 17, 2010)

I make the best damn veggie burgers this side of the missisip. Not to toot my own horn or nothin'. 

Also today I made a rockin' quesadilla with rice pepperjack cheese and red chili tortilla. NOM NOM NOM! 

And eggplant parm for my carnivore/cheese eatin' parents cuz I make a mean eggplant parm too.

I wonder why I cant get the fatties to stick around. My cooking freakin rocks.

But once again, not tooting that horn or nothin..


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## Sasquatch! (Aug 17, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> I make the best damn veggie burgers this side of the missisip. Not to toot my own horn or nothin'.
> 
> Also today I made a rockin' quesadilla with rice pepperjack cheese and red chili tortilla. NOM NOM NOM!
> 
> ...



Maybe they're intimidated? Do you "toot" a lot at night? They might not be able to get to sleep. That can be a huge factor.


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## Buffetbelly (Aug 17, 2010)

I am a vegetarian a couple days a week. Meatless Mondays and sometimes Wednesdays. Not a big fan of red meat, but I eat a lot of fish and chicken. Can't resist goat curry, though!

I try to eat healthy. I basically follow the old Food Pyramid. Except my pyramid is a little larger than it's supposed to be. My food pyramid is downright monumental! But healthy. Mostly.


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## Sasquatch! (Aug 17, 2010)

Sasquatch! said:


> Maybe they're intimidated? Do you "toot" a lot at night? They might not be able to get to sleep. That can be a huge factor.



Gah, needs clarifying. "Toot your own horn" at night? My dad used to get driven crackers by my mother's chatting.


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## rellis10 (Aug 17, 2010)

Sasquatch! said:


> Gah, needs clarifying. "Toot your own horn" at night? My dad used to get driven crackers by my mother's chatting.



I think my expression just matched the one of the thing in your avatar....exactly.


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## RJI (Aug 17, 2010)

bigpulve said:


> vegatarian + weight lifting = not a good combination.
> 
> 
> I made some tasty chicken burgers today.



When I was a gym rat I ate more spinach and broccoli then dairy and meat (actually has higher protein levels). If I did eat meat it was clean local grown chicken.


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## bladenite78 (Aug 17, 2010)

RJI said:


> When I was a gym rat I ate more spinach and broccoli then dairy and meat (actually has higher protein levels). If I did eat meat it was clean local grown chicken.



No it doesnt, it has nowhere near the protein levels. It has much higher iron levels. Green vegetables soak iron and zinc out of the ground, its why those crops are rotated, different colors normally mean different enzymes and minerals that those vegetables soaked up from the soil they were grown up in. It also takes about 1.5 lbs of pure uncooked spinach to match about 6 ounces of red meat. When people talk raw protein, they normally mean lentil based beans with high lipo-protein content and around 15g protein per serving instead of 6g protein per serving which is what spinach is. Protein consumption when seriously weight training or tearing down muscle content isnt about getting the protein during the day its about getting it at peak times like right after a work out. I think the formlula for heavy weight training is something like 1.5 to 2 grams per lb of lean body mass because it causes your endocrine system to go into overdrive and produce glucagon which burns glycogen. Spinach and other greens are also incomplete proteins meaning they do not have all of the essential amino acids like complete proteins like eggs, chicken, beef etc do, which is why vegans have to mix vegetables and beans in large amounts in order to match protein needs and some still must take amino acid supplements. The reason why meats and protein powders are used isnt because the proteins arent there in veggies, its because you have to eat like 2lbs of mixed macrobiotic goodness in order to be the equivalent of one protein based shake or a glass of egg whites in relation to essential amino acid supply and protein per serving content.


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## rabbitislove (Aug 18, 2010)

Sasquatch! said:


> Gah, needs clarifying. "Toot your own horn" at night? My dad used to get driven crackers by my mother's chatting.



Haha I will admit Im a chatterbox.

And since Im among friends here, I eat a lot of beans and veggies. 

Okay, NOW I understand Sasquatch!  

Anyway, in reguards to your PM, since Im always running out of space, if you ever want to trade vegan recipes hit me up


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## MasterShake (Aug 18, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> And Shake, shake shake shake, you really cant go one second without turning me on can you?


I can't help it - your on/off button is so much fun to play with!


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## Mordecai (Aug 18, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> I make the best damn veggie burgers this side of the missisip. Not to toot my own horn or nothin'.
> 
> Also today I made a rockin' quesadilla with rice pepperjack cheese and red chili tortilla. NOM NOM NOM!
> 
> ...



But what good is a horn if you can't toot it? Toot, toot!


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## FishCharming (Aug 18, 2010)

c'mon people, we have pointy teeth because we evolved to eat meat. how else would we tear through those whopper wrappers? hmmmm???


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## rabbitislove (Aug 18, 2010)

FishCharming said:


> c'mon people, we have pointy teeth because we evolved to eat meat. how else would we tear through those whopper wrappers? hmmmm???



This cracked me up, so Im not sure if you are serious. I used this as an argument for many years to resist vegetarian and veganism. While we do have canine teeth for meat consumption, our intestines and bodies are built to only handle a small amount of meat, about the size of a fist.

My main issue with meat eating is that obtaining meat has changed since human beings began consuming meat. In America, we are no longer hunting our own food, but obtaining meat from factory farms, which according to a UN report are causing more pollution than all the cars on the road. These farms also degrade the quality of life of animals by placing them in small pens, and jacking them up with hormones (also bad for us). 

I realize I cant get anyone to go vegan by yelling and screaming. (Trust me, I think PETA has scared away many a vegan). Im even struggling not to go kicking and screaming back to animal biproducts myself so its not easy. However, I would recommend cutting down on meat, to one meal a day, and buying meat from small local/organic farmers who allow their animals to roam. I encourage you people, know your meat!  

My God, this has been like hippie rant #2938690793696. Rediculous.


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## Sasquatch! (Aug 18, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> This cracked me up, so Im not sure if you are serious. I used this as an argument for many years to resist vegetarian and veganism. While we do have canine teeth for meat consumption, our intestines and bodies are built to only handle a small amount of meat, about the size of a fist.
> 
> My main issue with meat eating is that obtaining meat has changed since human beings began consuming meat. In America, we are no longer hunting our own food, but obtaining meat from factory farms, which according to a UN report are causing more pollution than all the cars on the road. These farms also degrade the quality of life of animals by placing them in small pens, and jacking them up with hormones (also bad for us).
> 
> ...



I heartily endorse this product and/or rant.

Rabbit...how long have you been a vegan?


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## Amaranthine (Aug 18, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> This cracked me up, so Im not sure if you are serious. I used this as an argument for many years to resist vegetarian and veganism. While we do have canine teeth for meat consumption, our intestines and bodies are built to only handle a small amount of meat, about the size of a fist.
> 
> My main issue with meat eating is that obtaining meat has changed since human beings began consuming meat. In America, we are no longer hunting our own food, but obtaining meat from factory farms, which according to a UN report are causing more pollution than all the cars on the road. These farms also degrade the quality of life of animals by placing them in small pens, and jacking them up with hormones (also bad for us).
> 
> ...



The factory farming and huge amounts of artificial hormones and chemicals are what made me turn vegan in the first place- and one of the reasons I'll be returning to veganism.

It's just so unnatural- when I stopped eating meat and dairy, I immediately felt the effects of detoxification and in the long-term, noticed more positive changes in my body. The change is amazing. Plus those poor, poor animals =[


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## FishCharming (Aug 18, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> This cracked me up, so Im not sure if you are serious. I used this as an argument for many years to resist vegetarian and veganism. While we do have canine teeth for meat consumption, our intestines and bodies are built to only handle a small amount of meat, about the size of a fist.
> 
> My main issue with meat eating is that obtaining meat has changed since human beings began consuming meat. In America, we are no longer hunting our own food, but obtaining meat from factory farms, which according to a UN report are causing more pollution than all the cars on the road. These farms also degrade the quality of life of animals by placing them in small pens, and jacking them up with hormones (also bad for us).
> 
> ...



a fist sized chunk of meat is a pretty substantial amount of tasty animal flesh. at least my fist sized =)

and i was mostly joking. i don't strive to provide a vegetarian diet for my child but we don't eat meat on a daily basis either. As for me i only eat once a day and it's usually just whatever is at hand so i probably only eat meat once a week at best, but that's more due to schedule and lifestyle issues over moral directives.

and besides, when all is said and done i'm not much of a hunter, but a helluva gatherer


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## rabbitislove (Aug 18, 2010)

Sorry if I sounded preachy Fish. I think your diet sounds awesome 

Sasquatch - Ive been vegan for 2 days. And most of today except Ive been arguing with my mom so much I caved and ate some of the eggplant parm I made for her. 

Amarethine - I love the detox but Im getting kinda annoyed and having trouble with it. 

Do either of you have tips for managing a healthy vegan diet? Im about to begin one of the busiest school years ever and I dont want my body to fall into disrepair! Help!


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## Sasquatch! (Aug 18, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> Sorry if I sounded preachy Fish. I think your diet sounds awesome
> 
> Sasquatch - Ive been vegan for 2 days. And most of today except Ive been arguing with my mom so much I caved and ate some of the eggplant parm I made for her.
> 
> ...



1--Don't resort to junk food.
2--For the love of Jebus make sure you get enough protein.
3--If you feel tired, go to the doctor and have them check your B12 levels. (this is really important)
4--You might have to eat at more regular intervals too.


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## rabbitislove (Aug 18, 2010)

Also, with so many vegans posting, this could make for the WORST library additions of all time:

Bob finally admitted to Sally.

"I want to be fed. By a gorgious woman who loves my fat. But no animals. Or animal biproducts. Sally, if this is going to work, you will have to cook vegan. Those poor poor animals.

"Oh Bob," Sally replied "Anything for you!"


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## Amaranthine (Aug 18, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> Sorry if I sounded preachy Fish. I think your diet sounds awesome
> 
> Sasquatch - Ive been vegan for 2 days. And most of today except Ive been arguing with my mom so much I caved and ate some of the eggplant parm I made for her.
> 
> ...



Have you ever had Chia seeds? I absolutely love the things. I eat muesli and organic soymilk for breakfast (dried fruit, nuts, and whole grains like oatmeal) and sprinkle a tablespoon of them on top. They have plenty of protein and they also can absorb about 14x their size in water. Because of this, they can form into a gel in the stomach, and lead to a more even and constant stream of energy throughout the morning. It's been a great way to start out the day for me.


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## Buffetbelly (Aug 20, 2010)

Amaranthine said:


> The factory farming and huge amounts of artificial hormones and chemicals are what made me turn vegan in the first place- and one of the reasons I'll be returning to veganism.
> 
> It's just so unnatural- when I stopped eating meat and dairy, I immediately felt the effects of detoxification and in the long-term, noticed more positive changes in my body. The change is amazing. Plus those poor, poor animals =[


 
Here in Northeast Ohio we have the advantage of having chicken, eggs and dairy products available from Amish farms, where the food is grown as it was in the early 1800's. Outside of Indiana-Ohio-Pennsylvania you may be out of luck and have to rely on factory farms!

I'll let Weird Al Yankovich explain it all to you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOfZLb33uCg


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## SnapDragon (Aug 20, 2010)

Those poor vegetables!

On a more serious note, it is possible to live OK on a vegan diet, but it requires research and effort not to end up malnourished. On the other hand, it's possible to live very well off just a bit of meat every day and some ordinary fruit and vegetables. It's also unlikely that just the sorts of vegetables one can grow in the garden will suffice as a vegan diet by themselves, and you will need stuff from abroad and possibly supplements as well. Things like soya are incredibly destructive to the environment in the way they are farmed. Thus I question how veganism is better for the environment than being an omnivore who eats responsibly sourced meat.

If you want to eat more environmentally consciously, maybe try growing your own vegetables and buying locally sourced meat that is free-range farmed. Depending on your living arrangements you may also be able to keep hens (eggs have a lot of stuff in them that makes up for the nutrients that are difficult to get from a plant-only diet). Sheep and game are good. Sheep's grazing preserves wetlands and areas that are unsuitable for crops, and game meats are hunted from natural habitats that must be carefully managed to be sustained.


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## Zowie (Aug 20, 2010)

Ah, this made me think of the "hundred mile
diet" where one only eats locally produced food. I do it in summer, but it becomes impossible in winter, al you have is preserves, potatoes, beets and the like. Serious scurvy diet. 



SnapDragon said:


> Those poor vegetables!
> 
> On a more serious note, it is possible to live OK on a vegan diet, but it requires research and effort not to end up malnourished. On the other hand, it's possible to live very well off just a bit of meat every day and some ordinary fruit and vegetables. It's also unlikely that just the sorts of vegetables one can grow in the garden will suffice as a vegan diet by themselves, and you will need stuff from abroad and possibly supplements as well. Things like soya are incredibly destructive to the environment in the way they are farmed. Thus I question how veganism is better for the environment than being an omnivore who eats responsibly sourced meat.
> 
> If you want to eat more environmentally consciously, maybe try growing your own vegetables and buying locally sourced meat that is free-range farmed. Depending on your living arrangements you may also be able to keep hens (eggs have a lot of stuff in them that makes up for the nutrients that are difficult to get from a plant-only diet). Sheep and game are good. Sheep's grazing preserves wetlands and areas that are unsuitable for crops, and game meats are hunted from natural habitats that must be carefully managed to be sustained.


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## FishCharming (Aug 20, 2010)

bionic_eggplant said:


> Ah, this made me think of the "hundred mile
> diet" where one only eats locally produced food. I do it in summer, but it becomes impossible in winter, al you have is preserves, potatoes, beets and the like. Serious scurvy diet.



scurvy is hawt!


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## Mordecai (Aug 20, 2010)

FishCharming said:


> scurvy is hawt!



Sailors always had the ladies swooning with their scurvy riddled bodies.


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## FishCharming (Aug 20, 2010)

Odenthalius said:


> Sailors always had the ladies swooning with their scurvy riddled bodies.



true story, i mean why else would pirates be so popular with the ladies?


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## djudex (Aug 20, 2010)

FishCharming said:


> scurvy is hawt!



Scurvy girls are curvy!

That could be a Tshirt Hell tshirt...


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## rabbitislove (Aug 20, 2010)

Judex, where you been shawtay? 

Anyway Snap, excessive soy is not healthy in any diet. While I still eat tofu and its fermented sister tempeh, I incorporate high protein grains,beans, lentils in there as well, which can be local. I feel its important to eat as seasonally as possible.

I dont see anything wrong with occassional meat eating from friendly farms, however, my rant was that North America depends too much on meat consumption. The majority of all meat grown in North America comes from factory farms, which are making us sicker and destroying the Earth more than any other form of pollution. This is my issue, not with the consumption of meat but with the amount and how its raised. 

Also FAT GUYS. I still cook meat, eggs and cheese. If you wanna come over, holla.


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## Mordecai (Aug 20, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> Also FAT GUYS. I still cook meat, eggs and cheese. If you wanna come over, holla.



That's just a bonus.


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## FishCharming (Aug 21, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> Judex, where you been shawtay?
> 
> Anyway Snap, excessive soy is not healthy in any diet. While I still eat tofu and its fermented sister tempeh, I incorporate high protein grains,beans, lentils in there as well, which can be local. I feel its important to eat as seasonally as possible.
> 
> ...



Holla at ya girl! make me a sammich?


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## Ninja Glutton (Aug 21, 2010)

I love vegetarians because it just means more meat for me 

I just can't stand militant vegans/vegetarians that make it their sole purpose in life to tell you how disgusting you are for eating meat and how much undigested meat is sitting within your bowels.

Other than that, live and let live


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## Ninja Glutton (Aug 21, 2010)

Also, rabbit, you are cute as a button and I agree with you about the institutionalized nature of factory-produced meats. I think it's important to support local farms and local foods because it's the freshest stuff you can get. I feel like much of that is lost nowadays.

Since living in California, I've come to appreciate avocado grown locally just as I loved the tomatoes, apples, and corn grown locally back east.


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## djudex (Aug 21, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> Judex, where you been shawtay?



I'm right here darlin', just in a downswing the last few weeks. I kind of go through cycles almost like mild bipolar and when I'm in the downswing I'm just not as much an active participant. It'll pass and then I'll be back to my rip roarin' self 



> Also FAT GUYS. I still cook meat, eggs and cheese. If you wanna come over, holla.



I do wanna come over!!


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## rabbitislove (Aug 21, 2010)

Haha thanks Ninja. Being cute and non militant makes it easier for me to get more lee-way with the big dudes I Mcguess. Glad we have so many Dimmers eating local and downsizing the meat for their health. May we live long, and freak out the squares 

Judex, I look forward to more pics.

And oh man. We might have to plan this "fat guys coming over for dinner" thing. Like everyone take a day so I dont get overwhelmed. Although its nice to have a guy around to talk to while I cook, and help in the kitchen. Making hummus while watching Al Borland do it only goes so far


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## BigChaz (Aug 21, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> Haha thanks Ninja. Being cute and non militant makes it easier for me to get more lee-way with the big dudes I Mcguess. Glad we have so many Dimmers eating local and downsizing the meat for their health. May we live long, and freak out the squares
> 
> Judex, I look forward to more pics.
> 
> And oh man. We might have to plan this "fat guys coming over for dinner" thing. Like everyone take a day so I dont get overwhelmed. Although its nice to have a guy around to talk to while I cook, and help in the kitchen. Making hummus while watching Al Borland do it only goes so far



I tend to try and take over in the kitchen. It is both a good and bad thing I suppose. I make for good conversations though!


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## FishCharming (Aug 22, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> Haha thanks Ninja. Being cute and non militant makes it easier for me to get more lee-way with the big dudes I Mcguess. Glad we have so many Dimmers eating local and downsizing the meat for their health. May we live long, and freak out the squares
> 
> Judex, I look forward to more pics.
> 
> And oh man. We might have to plan this "fat guys coming over for dinner" thing. Like everyone take a day so I dont get overwhelmed. Although its nice to have a guy around to talk to while I cook, and help in the kitchen. Making hummus while watching Al Borland do it only goes so far



ooooh, i love hummus! i have an awesome recipe for nan (?) bread =)

so, can i just go ahead and call Tuesdays?


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## Donnybrook (Aug 22, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> No, honey. Fat is where the flavor's at.



In defense of vegetarianism, let it be understood that we live off the fat of the land. We have no need to turn to our four-legged, flying or swimming animal companions for sustenance and nourishment. We are too satiated gorging ourselves on the bounty of nature. When you go into health food stores and browse products with brand names like "Yummy Earth, "Foods Alive" and "18 Rabbits" - that's truly our philosophy! 

When I used to eat meat, I really liked it. I liked it so much I started worrying that I wasn't getting enough vegetables. I can remember going into the supermarket and just not have any idea what to do with all those vegetables that were actually for sale in the produce section. They couldn't all be garnishes. What did people do with Acorn Squash, beets, leeks? It was so mysterious. All I knew was, I knew nothing about food. 

Then once I was seriously into vegetarianism I realized it was a bonanza. I'll never be done with it. I'm too seduced by the variety of flavors, the rainbow of vibrant colors, the intense flavor burst of foods truly fresh from the farm or garden. And when your dinner plate is always loaded with leafy arrays and the cross and length sections of fruits, nuts, and roots, what stares back at you is the benevolent and bizarre (especially from the point of view of reproduction) nature of plants, as opposed to shades of the unhappy experiences of incarcerated animals. 

Since humans have long been carnivores, being human, I agree that by definition I'm still a carnivore, but I just feel that it'll be so long, like a hundred years, before I think of eating something really different, like meat.

God invented laughter, just as nature invented calories. Out of light, and water, and earth and wind... This alone is a reason to love vegetables!

Meat eaters reading this: please do not, I repeat, please do not feel offended or attacked. Everyone's on a journey, this happened to be mine.


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## WillSpark (Aug 22, 2010)

Donnybrook said:


> In defense of vegetarianism, let it be understood that we live off the fat of the land. We have no need to turn to our four-legged, flying or swimming animal companions for sustenance and nourishment. We are too satiated gorging ourselves on the bounty of nature. When you go into health food stores and browse products with brand names like "Yummy Earth, "Foods Alive" and "18 Rabbits" - that's truly our philosophy!
> 
> When I used to eat meat, I really liked it. I liked it so much I started worrying that I wasn't getting enough vegetables. I can remember going into the supermarket and just not have any idea what to do with all those vegetables that were actually for sale in the produce section. They couldn't all be garnishes. What did people do with Acorn Squash, beets, leeks? It was so mysterious. All I knew was, I knew nothing about food.
> 
> ...



Just be sure you're also getting supplements for any nutrients you may be lacking from your "journey" that the human body normally depends on getting from meats.


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## Esther (Aug 22, 2010)

WillSpark said:


> Just be sure you're also getting supplements for any nutrients you may be lacking from your "journey" that the human body normally depends on getting from meats.



Vegans/vegetarians who eat properly don't need supplements.


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## MasterShake (Aug 22, 2010)

Esther said:


> Vegans/vegetarians who eat properly don't need supplements.



I think a lot of people would be surprised at how malnourished the "normal" western diet is these days (and I'm not talking about the extreme fast food heavy eaters). 

Meat and calories do not necessarily equate to full nutrition.


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## Sasquatch! (Aug 22, 2010)

MasterShake said:


> I think a lot of people would be surprised at how malnourished the "normal" western diet is these days (and I'm not talking about the extreme fast food heavy eaters).
> 
> Meat and calories do not necessarily equate to full nutrition.



Amen. Last time I went to the states (this is just an example) I was constipated for 2 weeks. Damn lack of fibre.


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## Hozay J Garseeya (Aug 22, 2010)

Sasquatch! said:


> Amen. Last time I went to the states (this is just an example) I was constipated for 2 weeks. Damn lack of fibre.



When I was visiting germany and austria, I felt amazing. I came back home and the food really fucked up my stomach. It took me another two weeks to get used to food here in the states again. I hated knowing I was putting shit food in my body.


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## rabbitislove (Aug 22, 2010)

Agreed with everyone. I love Mark Bittmans book "How to cook everything vegetarian" (Pretty much all recipes can be modified for vegans. Plus rice cheese is decent when melted and has the same amount of calcium as animal cheese) 

Also google vegan dad. So many great recipes to make with the pleathora of veggies availible. By the way, Im totally geeked for squash season! (Butternut squash ravoli ftw!) I cooked beans and greens with leeks and kale for my Italian grandparents (Think a lot of dishes with meat and cheeses) and they loved it 

And agreed about the constipation. I really dont think my body was meant to handle meat and cheese. I used to eat lots of those things as a kid and was bound up all the time. I think its all what your body can support, and while you cant force anyone to give up animals and their byproducts, Id recommend one vegan/vegetarian meal a day for optimum health


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## warwagon86 (Aug 25, 2010)

i refuse to cook or entertain veggies at my house....just saying


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## Esther (Aug 25, 2010)

warwagon86 said:


> i refuse to cook or entertain veggies at my house....just saying



Any reason why?


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## Geodetic_Effect (Aug 25, 2010)

Veganism is not healthy. It is an unnatural diet. If you disagree I challenge you to go out into nature and try to survive only on edible plants. You will not last very long. Eating meat is not the problem with the modern diet. Processed foods devoid of nutrients and filled with nasty chemicals are the problem. I do include commercially raised animals in this group of unhealthy foods. The animals they raise are ill and chemically/genetically altered and of course you can't be healthy eating them. But, we are predators, we also can't be healthy if we eliminate animal foods from our diet. There are many sources of properly raised animal food out there. They are a bit more difficult to obtain and more expensive, but well worth it.


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## Esther (Aug 25, 2010)

While I respect your point and I do understand where you are coming from... there is nothing at all unhealthy about a proper vegan diet. I do agree that it is "unnatural", but we are living in a very unnatural world that allows us to make food choices that would not work if we were stranded in the wilderness. Many vegan food products are enriched with B12 (the only vitamin missing from a vegan diet) so if you eat properly, you will be perfectly healthy. If veganism being unnatural is your argument against it, then you might as well strip naked, camp out in the woods and start hunting your food with a spear.


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## Amaranthine (Aug 25, 2010)

Esther said:


> While I respect your point and I do understand where you are coming from... there is nothing at all unhealthy about a proper vegan diet. I do agree that it is "unnatural", but we are living in a very unnatural world that allows us to make food choices that would not work if we were stranded in the wilderness. Many vegan food products are enriched with B12 (the only vitamin missing from a vegan diet) so if you eat properly, you will be perfectly healthy. If veganism being unnatural is your argument against it, then you might as well strip naked, camp out in the woods and start hunting your food with a spear.



I agree with that. It's not the most natural diet, but when it's properly planned, it can be very healthy. Compared to an average diet where meat, dairy, and fast food are consumed in high amounts, veganism really is good for you. 

And it's not just for health reasons- yes it's great to avoid processed foods because of all the chemicals and unnatural additives- but like you said, a lot of meat comes from very unhealthy animal farms with immoral practices. Buying meat and dairy that comes from a trustworthy source is a good option, but not buying things like that at all also helps.


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## BigChaz (Aug 25, 2010)

A large portion of my meat comes from local farms. They even make it convenient by delivering. Last week they slaughtered a bunch of lambs and cows. I had like 14lbs of lamb and 13lbs of cow delivered to my office.

Meat. Yummy. Also when you buy food from a farm (I am in a co-op) you get to tour it and stuff to make sure its sanitary, good animal conditions, etc. Which I did. So I know the lamb and beef I am eating is local, high quality grass fed, and treated humanely.

They were pretty surprised when I went down there a couple months ago to watch the slaughtering process. Apparently not many people ask to see that.


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## Geodetic_Effect (Aug 25, 2010)

Esther said:


> If veganism being unnatural is your argument against it, then you might as well strip naked, start camping in the woods and hunting your food with a spear.



That sounds great, I should do that. But wearing clothes and living in a house is quite a bit different than eating vegan. They are just new forms of warmth, protection and shelter. They don't go against any biological processes in your body. It is impossible for a vegan diet, with only natural foods, to give you the nutrients you need. And even with all the modern supplementation that you can use with it, you will not be healthy. Even so called herbivores can't be healthy eating only plants. They must also consume insects. The amount they need is a lot lower than ours, but the need is still there. The only reason it seems healthy in our society is that most of the food people eat is crap. The nutrients have been removed or destroyed. So of course when you start to eat a bunch of plants that still have their nutrients there is a net gain. Especially with our soft, easy lifestyle. But that doesn't mean you don't need animal food. For true health and vitality, you need a balance of whole, real foods that are raised and prepared properly.


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## Esther (Aug 25, 2010)

This is the last post I am going to make about this because it is clear that you are not listening to anything you don't want to hear. NOTHING is naturally missing from a proper vegan diet except vitamin B12, which is added to all kinds of things anyway so it is not an issue. Nothing at all. It doesn't matter how many times you insist that a vegan diet is unhealthy... it's not true.


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## BigChaz (Aug 25, 2010)

I've got a vegan friend who could probably beat superman in a battle of strength.

Anecdote, but whatever.


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## rabbitislove (Aug 26, 2010)

BigChaz said:


> I've got a vegan friend who could probably beat superman in a battle of strength.
> 
> Anecdote, but whatever.



Yeah I had that asshole in a headlock. He was getting in the way of my blender and I needed to make hummus.


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## Geodetic_Effect (Aug 26, 2010)

Esther said:


> This is the last post I am going to make about this because it is clear that you are not listening to anything you don't want to hear. NOTHING is naturally missing from a proper vegan diet except vitamin B12, which is added to all kinds of things anyway so it is not an issue. Nothing at all. It doesn't matter how many times you insist that a vegan diet is unhealthy... it's not true.



I only look for what is, not what I think should be. I will not take a side without examining all sides and analyzing the logic and evidence for and against those sides. I have an unflinching determination to take all the evidence into account. All you are doing is repeating over and over that nothing is missing. That is not a logical argument. So why would I listen? Even the simplest and most basic logic is against your side. Mankind spent 200,000 years as hunter gatherers. Predators, eating meat and supplementing with plant food. We evolved as meat eaters. So it doesn't make sense that it would be healthy to eliminate meat from the diet. Then when you look at all the scientific research, the evidence is overwhelmingly against veganism. Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin K2, Vitamin B6, Zinc, Essential Fatty Acids, and Conditionally Essential Amino Acids are all lacking in a vegan diet. No matter how hard you try and how bad you want it to be false. Vegan supporters consistently misrepresent scientific data to make it appear they are right. To me, confirmation bias is one of the most annoying things on the planet and is out of control. An example of this the Burr and Sweetnam study in 1982. Vegans quote this study as evidence for their side. Using it as an example of substantially higher ischemic heart disease (IHD) mortality rates with meat consumption. Although if you analyze the raw data it blows their side away.

Annual Death Rates of Vegetarians and Nonvegetarians
IHD All-Cause
Male vegetarians .22% .93%
Male nonvegetarians .33% .88%
Female vegetarians .14% .86%
Female nonvegetarians .10% .54%

These results are absolutely not supportive of the proposition that vegetarianism protects against either heart disease or all-cause mortalities. They also indicate that vegetarianism is more dangerous for women than for men. 

And studies like this typically use vegetarian groups like seventh day adventists as the vegetarian sample. Who don't drink or smoke, some won't even have drinks with caffeine. Even with the crap modern foods, alcohol, cigarettes and caffeine consumed by meat eaters, vegetarians have higher death rates.

The China Study is often cited as proof that plantbased diets are healthier than those containing animal foods. The data on consumption and disease patterns collected by the Cornell University researchers in their massive dietary survey do not support such claims. What the researchers discovered was that meat eaters had lower triglycerides and less cirrhosis of the liver, but otherwise they found no strong correlation, either negative or positive, with meat eating and any disease. And the author of The China Study has written articles claiming the Cornell findings suggested that a diet high in animal products produces disease, and a diet high in grains, vegetables and other plant matter produces health." Obviously misrepresenting the science which calls into question every bit of data he's ever used in his work. 

I could go on for days with all the examples out there. Vegans have not one bit of solid evidence to support their claims. And I have never met one that has done anywhere near the amount of research as I have on the topic. So saying "you are not listening to anything you don't want to hear." is insulting and wholly inaccurate.


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## rabbitislove (Aug 26, 2010)

where is that icon being passed around the internet where the patrick stewart does a facepalm? somebody hook me up??!?!


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## Ninja Glutton (Aug 26, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> where is that icon being passed around the internet where the patrick stewart does a facepalm? somebody hook me up??!?!



Here it is:


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## warwagon86 (Aug 26, 2010)

Esther said:


> Any reason why?



lol let me clarify that statement as i realised my words may have a different terminology in america.

when i say entertain i mean cook dinner etc for - i have veggies here all the time for parties and to have a few beverages!

i refuse to cook for them as its a pain in the arse - and I enjoy cooking its one of my hobbies if you would. For christmas myself and 2 friends were the chefs for our american football team dinner.

We did 4 sittings of dinner for 42 people in a resonable sized house. We were slaving in the kitchen the night before and the whole day - and 2 of the cheerleaders rang and said oh we are veggies blah blah blah

i simply said come at 9pm and bring your booze as I am not preparing something totally different. i offered them the christmas dinner without the meat but they started asking where it had been prepped had anything touched it blah blah blah

like seriously it wa sa student household and it was not a michelin star restaurant. just saying i think there is a line between being nice and being absurd.

i choose to ignore both lines and eliminate the need for them


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## djudex (Aug 26, 2010)

I think it deserves DUH DUH DUUUUUUUUUH!

THE DOUBLE FACEPALM!!!


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## Sasquatch! (Aug 26, 2010)

Anecdotal evidence: I feel better when I eat vegetarian and vegan food.


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## FishCharming (Aug 26, 2010)

Sasquatch! said:


> Anecdotal evidence: I feel better when I eat vegetarian and vegan food.



i had sushi for dinner last night (not really vegetarian, i know) and for an evening snack chipotle hummus with this crazy garlic artisan bread and i gotta tell ya, i feel like hell this morning. it might have something to do with the copious amount of food i ate but still...


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## mantis_shrimp (Aug 26, 2010)

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone (too lazy to read as i'm sick with the flu), but, i've been a vegetarian for 10 years and my iron levels, b12 etc etc are all still good according to blood tests. I don't have high cholesterol, blood pressure or any heart problems... I'm thinking about starting to eat white meat again though ;D


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## rabbitislove (Aug 26, 2010)

djudex said:


> I think it deserves DUH DUH DUUUUUUUUUH!
> 
> THE DOUBLE FACEPALM!!!




Hahaha. Thank you Jude and Ninja! I realize Esther, Sasquatch, all other vegans/veggies here and myself could argue until our fingers are numb, and we're blue in the face but fuck it. Im going for the facepalm


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## Esther (Aug 26, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> Hahaha. Thank you Jude and Ninja! I realize Esther, Sasquatch, all other vegans/veggies here and myself could argue until our fingers are numb, and we're blue in the face but fuck it. Im going for the facepalm



That is exactly how I feel about it. I'm just over it.


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## Esther (Aug 26, 2010)

warwagon86 said:


> lol let me clarify that statement as i realised my words may have a different terminology in america.
> 
> when i say entertain i mean cook dinner etc for - i have veggies here all the time for parties and to have a few beverages!
> 
> ...



Yeah I totally misinterpreted you, haha. I thought you meant they weren't allowed in your home!! 
I know what you mean though - it can be a total pain in the ass if you're trying to cook for a large crowd, and a few people with specific dietary needs get super demanding with you. Most vegetarians/vegans I know are more flexible about that kind of thing; my one vegan friend always brings a dish with him so he knows there will be something for him to eat.


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## SnapDragon (Aug 26, 2010)

Personally I find grains are an inappropriate food for humans. Grains have to be processed (cooked or otherwise treated) to be edible at all, and I don't think it's what we are evolved to eat. Wheat products in any significant quantity give me constipation. I feel great if I just eat raw meat and fruit, but it works out too expensive like that, so I eat quinoa and rice (these seem to be OK).

Also dogs love fruit.  Dogs are omnivores, just like humans. My dog loves bananas. She mainly eats a grain-free dog food but she gets raw bones and offal for treats.

I suspect insects may be the food of the future. They have all the nutrition of meat but are much more productive per unit food produced from per unit feedstock put in, and their welfare requirements are much easier to eat.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/3343288/Eat-more-insects-scientists-say.html


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## Amaranthine (Aug 26, 2010)

SnapDragon said:


> Personally I find grains are an inappropriate food for humans. Grains have to be processed (cooked or otherwise treated) to be edible at all, and I don't think it's what we are evolved to eat. Wheat products in any significant quantity give me constipation. I feel great if I just eat raw meat and fruit, but it works out too expensive like that, so I eat quinoa and rice (these seem to be OK).
> 
> Also dogs love fruit.  Dogs are omnivores, just like humans. My dog loves bananas. She mainly eats a grain-free dog food but she gets raw bones and offal for treats.
> 
> ...



I've always thought that dairy wasn't really meant for human consumption- it's COW milk (or goat or sheep...etc) not human milk. If you stop eating dairy for awhile, lactose intolerance will actually develop (happened to me) and many people already have some iota of intolerance. 

But...insects *cringe* I'm pretty prohealth, but I'm so insect phobic that I'd never want to knowingly eat one. My general rule...if I'm scared of it, it's not going in my mouth.


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## Ninja Glutton (Aug 26, 2010)

Though entirely OFF the vegetarianism topic, but entirely ON the Patrick Stewart topic, this is the greatest thing he has ever done:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg_cwI1Xj4M

Still kills me to this day.


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## FishCharming (Aug 26, 2010)

Ninja Glutton said:


> Though entirely OFF the vegetarianism topic, but entirely ON the Patrick Stewart topic, this is the greatest thing he has ever done:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg_cwI1Xj4M
> 
> Still kills me to this day.



patrick stewart was supposed to play spider jerusalem for the Transmetroplitan movie that never got made...


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## warwagon86 (Aug 26, 2010)

Esther said:


> Yeah I totally misinterpreted you, haha. I thought you meant they weren't allowed in your home!!
> I know what you mean though - it can be a total pain in the ass if you're trying to cook for a large crowd, and a few people with specific dietary needs get super demanding with you. Most vegetarians/vegans I know are more flexible about that kind of thing; my one vegan friend always brings a dish with him so he knows there will be something for him to eat.



i have a friend like that and shes great - i have no problems prepping for her because i know shes a veggie and has been and likes her stuff done a certain way

but when im doing a big dinner and your asking me the day before to prep seperate stuff its not going to happen lol


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## Buffetbelly (Aug 26, 2010)

Props for your academic prowess, Geodetic! You are right on. The Seventh Day Adventist studies that vegetarians quote are biased because there are many differences between the more devout and adherent SDA's and the half-hearted SDA's who are not vegetarian (I have many SDA friends).



Geodetic_Effect said:


> I only look for what is, not what I think should be. I will not take a side without examining all sides and analyzing the logic and evidence for and against those sides. I have an unflinching determination to take all the evidence into account. All you are doing is repeating over and over that nothing is missing. That is not a logical argument. So why would I listen? Even the simplest and most basic logic is against your side. Mankind spent 200,000 years as hunter gatherers. Predators, eating meat and supplementing with plant food. We evolved as meat eaters. So it doesn't make sense that it would be healthy to eliminate meat from the diet. Then when you look at all the scientific research, the evidence is overwhelmingly against veganism. Vitamin A, Vitamin D, Vitamin K2, Vitamin B6, Zinc, Essential Fatty Acids, and Conditionally Essential Amino Acids are all lacking in a vegan diet. No matter how hard you try and how bad you want it to be false. Vegan supporters consistently misrepresent scientific data to make it appear they are right. To me, confirmation bias is one of the most annoying things on the planet and is out of control. An example of this the Burr and Sweetnam study in 1982. Vegans quote this study as evidence for their side. Using it as an example of substantially higher ischemic heart disease (IHD) mortality rates with meat consumption. Although if you analyze the raw data it blows their side away.
> 
> Annual Death Rates of Vegetarians and Nonvegetarians
> IHD All-Cause
> ...


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## Buffetbelly (Aug 26, 2010)

warwagon86 said:


> i refuse to cook or entertain veggies at my house....just saying



What about these vegetables? They are very entertaining!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGaDjSXhB8s


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## Geodetic_Effect (Aug 26, 2010)

We could always have a good old fashioned duel to settle the debate.


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## Buffetbelly (Aug 26, 2010)

SnapDragon said:


> Also dogs love fruit.  Dogs are omnivores, just like humans. My dog loves bananas. She mainly eats a grain-free dog food but she gets raw bones and offal for treats.
> ]



Dogs are carnivores. This is obvious by the length of their intestines. Carnivores have short guts and rapid transit times and lack much of a colon to prevent putrification of meat. Herbivores have very long guts, often with multiple fermentation chambers (cows, for example). Omnivores such as humans and other apes as well as rodents have in-between digestive systems that can handle both meat and vegetable matter. 

And I agree that humans are adapted to eating insects. Have you ever seen chimps eat termites? Locusts are mentioned as food in the Bible.


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## Geodetic_Effect (Aug 26, 2010)

Buffetbelly said:


> And I agree that humans are adapted to eating insects. Have you ever seen chimps eat termites? Locusts are mentioned as food in the Bible.



Have you ever seen chimps hunt monkeys? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMXk5Z6-IHY


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## Fat Molly (Aug 26, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> NOM NOM NOM!!!
> 
> Vegetarian for a year and some change, vegan for a day. Im pretty sure Im going to make the switch to veganism, as much as it will ruin my chance of getting with any fat guy ever. Animal biproducts have been giving me major gut rot, and Im a sucker for sad looking penned up animals.



Aw. Don't look at it as a 'ruin'ing of your 'chance of getting with any fat guy ever'. It just means that you make something for him that you don't make for yourself, then make the rest of your meal mutually delicious and vegan. 

In further support of veganism: Hasn't it been observed that humans are the only creatures that drink milk past infancy? Or something like that?

Anyhow, if I had more dedication, and if it were easier, I'd give up all dairy. The gas that comes with lactose intolerance is NOT COOL, nor is the painful bloating etc. Do what feels okay to you, when it comes to food. 

I was a vegetarian for a long while myself, though recently I've become an omnivore again. (Huzzah!)


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## FishCharming (Aug 26, 2010)

give up icecream? are you mad people?!?!


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## MasterShake (Aug 26, 2010)

I think you have to be careful and explicit when discussing dietary choices in general, vegan or not, about all the different motivations and reasonings people have for their diets:

1) Health: Most foods are as healthy, unhealthy, or neutral as their creation and preparation allows them to be. I remember once reading a bit of hyperbole that a serving of completely fresh, scratch-made apple pie with all-natural ingredients is healthier for you than an equivalent serving of canned green beans that have been processed to death. Vegetarian/vegan diets can be healthier by reducing calories, removing one of the bigger offenders (fried meats), and encouraging increased veg and fruit consumption (which most people are lacking in), but they can also be unhealthy by undereating (veggie and veganism have become well-known "strategies" for anorexics trying to hide their disorder) or by being the kind of vegetarian that relies on mac and cheese as their staple food. 

2) Sustainability: A veggie/vegan diet can be more sustainable than a meat-based one, if only because of the relative energy costs of raising grains and vegetables vs animals. OTOH, something like a "100 mile" diet of only eating local foods may be just or better effective than a vegan diet that relies on crops produced thousands of miles away and requiring extensive shipping.

3) Morality: Obviously the above are moot points if someone feels that killing another creature for its flesh is morally wrong (or not). The reasons are varied, from all spectrums of politics, cultures, ethics, and other reasonings.

4) Science: This is the category that makes me roll my eyes the most. People of all persuasions seem to like rolling out random samplings of biological, genetic, or other trivia that appears to prove their point about what humans are "intended" to consume. While I don't reject science, I can't help but be reminded of the Victorian-era arguments regarding gender and race - perfectly fine people making perfectly imbecilic conclusions based on assorted collections of "common sense facts" that proved to be bunkum.

Personally - and this is obviously my own bias here - I think the first two are the only fruitful (no pun intended) subjects to discuss when it comes to vegetarianism, as #3 typically means going beyond food into areas of religion and culture (which I cynically feel are rarely changed by "debating"), and #4, again, I just roll my eyes and move on.

/off my soapbox


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## Fat Molly (Aug 26, 2010)

FishCharming said:


> give up icecream? are you mad people?!?!



No!

We have Rice Dream and Soy Dream instead.


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## Fat Molly (Aug 26, 2010)

MasterShake said:


> I think you have to be careful and explicit when discussing dietary choices in general, vegan or not, about all the different motivations and reasonings people have for their diets:
> 
> 1) Health: Most foods are as healthy, unhealthy, or neutral as their creation and preparation allows them to be. I remember once reading a bit of hyperbole that a serving of completely fresh, scratch-made apple pie with all-natural ingredients is healthier for you than an equivalent serving of canned green beans that have been processed to death. Vegetarian/vegan diets can be healthier by reducing calories, removing one of the bigger offenders (fried meats), and encouraging increased veg and fruit consumption (which most people are lacking in), but they can also be unhealthy by undereating (veggie and veganism have become well-known "strategies" for anorexics trying to hide their disorder) or by being the kind of vegetarian that relies on mac and cheese as their staple food.
> 
> ...



I do agree, and believe in serving home-made, scratch-built apple pie. Having apple trees in my mum's yard makes this a cinch.


----------



## rabbitislove (Aug 27, 2010)

Fat Molly said:


> No!
> 
> We have Rice Dream and Soy Dream instead.



Almond Dream is where its at


----------



## rabbitislove (Aug 27, 2010)

MasterShake said:


> I think you have to be careful and explicit when discussing dietary choices in general, vegan or not, about all the different motivations and reasonings people have for their diets:
> 
> 1) Health: Most foods are as healthy, unhealthy, or neutral as their creation and preparation allows them to be. I remember once reading a bit of hyperbole that a serving of completely fresh, scratch-made apple pie with all-natural ingredients is healthier for you than an equivalent serving of canned green beans that have been processed to death. Vegetarian/vegan diets can be healthier by reducing calories, removing one of the bigger offenders (fried meats), and encouraging increased veg and fruit consumption (which most people are lacking in), but they can also be unhealthy by undereating (veggie and veganism have become well-known "strategies" for anorexics trying to hide their disorder) or by being the kind of vegetarian that relies on mac and cheese as their staple food.
> 
> ...




*rips off blouse and bites lip like she's in a bad teen date movie*

Sorry Shake, you just have that effect on me


----------



## Geodetic_Effect (Aug 27, 2010)

MasterShake said:


> I think you have to be careful and explicit when discussing dietary choices in general, vegan or not, about all the different motivations and reasonings people have for their diets:
> 
> 1) Health: Most foods are as healthy, unhealthy, or neutral as their creation and preparation allows them to be. I remember once reading a bit of hyperbole that a serving of completely fresh, scratch-made apple pie with all-natural ingredients is healthier for you than an equivalent serving of canned green beans that have been processed to death. Vegetarian/vegan diets can be healthier by reducing calories, removing one of the bigger offenders (fried meats), and encouraging increased veg and fruit consumption (which most people are lacking in), but they can also be unhealthy by undereating (veggie and veganism have become well-known "strategies" for anorexics trying to hide their disorder) or by being the kind of vegetarian that relies on mac and cheese as their staple food.
> 
> ...




I agree with most of this. Especially the bit about how the food is prepared. Sustainability is important. Like everything else in life, it requires balance. There needs to be a harmony between plants, animals, fungus and microbes. Just plant farming can be detrimental to the environment. Like any other farming that is not done properly. Remember the Dust Bowl? Where I disagree is that science is key. Yes, there is a lot of bad science out there. But a complete lack of science makes it impossible to understand both the health and sustainability aspects. Morality isn't an issue for me. I don't think killing a plant, fungus or even a bacterium is any different than killing an animal. No matter what it is, you are taking a life.


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## warwagon86 (Aug 27, 2010)

hahahahaha totally off topic but does anyone remember veggie tales?


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## Sasquatch! (Aug 27, 2010)

warwagon86 said:


> hahahahaha totally off topic but does anyone remember veggie tales?



Bwahahahah!


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## warwagon86 (Aug 27, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr_bPgg08rQ


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## MasterShake (Aug 27, 2010)

Geodetic_Effect said:


> Where I disagree is that science is key. Yes, there is a lot of bad science out there. But a complete lack of science makes it impossible to understand both the health and sustainability aspects.


I am referring only specifically to the "science" of trying to define what the human body was "meant" to consume.

While the design of teeth, colons, etc. are by no means completely random/meaningless, trying to build a totalizing argument over humanity's "intended" diet quickly spills over into what I find are the kind of overstepping, assumption/ideology-masquerading-as-commonsense-"fact" proclamations that were once uttered by Victorian scientists as to why Africans make better physical laborers or why women don't have sexual urges.

Science regarding sustainable crop growing, how food affects health, etc., I'm all for that. Not that it isn't always immune to similar abuse, but there tends to be more data and less abject speculation IMO.


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## WillSpark (Aug 27, 2010)

The Veggie Tales are the best! I loved them when I was in church, and I love them now as an atheist. They rock cuz they sing catchy songs, make the stories entertaining, and tell them the way they are, as fairy tales, as opposed to factual events.


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## MasterShake (Aug 27, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> *rips off blouse and bites lip like she's in a bad teen date movie*
> 
> Sorry Shake, you just have that effect on me


Well, since you're expecting bad dialogue anyhoo:

"Baby, you're so hot you're melting all my almond dream. Methinks I better lick quicker!"


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## SnapDragon (Aug 28, 2010)

Buffetbelly said:


> Dogs are carnivores.



Disagree. Dogs and other canids are omnivores, but in general they lean more towards carnivory (i.e. predominantly meat with a bit of vegetable matter). They belong to a taxonomical order called _carnivora_, which tends to confuse people. Humans and most primates are omnivores that lean more towards frugivory (fruit eating with some meat). Wolves and other canids supplement their meat diet with roots, fruits, and vegetables. In my country, foxes will eat courgettes and similar out of people's gardens.

Compare this with cats and members of the cat family. These are obligate carnivores who will not naturally eat fruit or vegetable matter. If cats eat fruits, they vomit.

Omnivores by their nature are adaptable, thus humans are capable of living entirely off meat, provided some of it is raw (traditional Inuit lifestyle as example) or off plant material alone, and dogs can live close to a natural lifespan eating cheap dog food made of wheat.


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## Albino_taters (Aug 29, 2010)

I am honestly near vegetarian during the summer months. Everything is just so good during the warm months...like heirloom tomatoes, sweet corn, green beans, sweet peas, broccoli, lettuces, strawberries, raspberries. But those winter months are killer. Nothing really to eat except...pine nuts and cabbage. >p


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## djudex (Aug 29, 2010)

I had tofu stirfry last night at my mom's house; tofu cubes, red peppers, broccoli, onions, garlic, peanut sauce and rice noodles. Weren't half bad!


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## Hozay J Garseeya (Aug 29, 2010)

djudex said:


> I had tofu stirfry last night at my mom's house; tofu cubes, red peppers, broccoli, onions, garlic, peanut sauce and rice noodles. Weren't half bad!



Upswing FTW!!!


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## Zowie (Aug 29, 2010)

I went to the "Naam" restaurant in Vancouver (mostly because my uncle plays there). Yes, I did spend a lot of time making fun of the hippies there, and yes, I did wrinkle my nose at the mention of "Hemp chocolate cake", but all in all the food was good. What I had was simply a veggie-tofu pad thai. 

Oh, and I am constantly amazed by vegan chocolate cake. How is it still so good, and so moist, without eggs or milk? Well, maybe soymilk works, but eggs?


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## djudex (Aug 29, 2010)

Hozay J Garseeya said:


> Upswing FTW!!!



It's funny, last night I was making plans to go to the grocery store and pick up groceries for the week. This morning I woke up with an ugly headache so I'm eating leftover spaghetti with a cup of coffee for breakfast instead


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## bladenite78 (Aug 29, 2010)

MasterShake said:


> I am referring only specifically to the "science" of trying to define what the human body was "meant" to consume.
> 
> While the design of teeth, colons, etc. are by no means completely random/meaningless, trying to build a totalizing argument over humanity's "intended" diet quickly spills over into what I find are the kind of overstepping, assumption/ideology-masquerading-as-commonsense-"fact" proclamations that were once uttered by Victorian scientists as to why Africans make better physical laborers or why women don't have sexual urges.
> 
> Science regarding sustainable crop growing, how food affects health, etc., I'm all for that. Not that it isn't always immune to similar abuse, but there tends to be more data and less abject speculation IMO.



Really? So basing something on a model ie the human body that hasnt changed since it's conception is abject speculation, however trusting whatever new science or technology is at hand is truth? Yep...cigarrettes cured cancer 20 years ago too. It's all speculation, whether its able to be proven or not.


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## Amaranthine (Aug 29, 2010)

Today I rediscovered my dislike of restaurants. After a mandatory trip, I was provided with a dinner buffet at a restaurant. For vegan things: salad. I mean, really? Even the potato wedges were COVERED in cheese and bacon. Really America?


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## Sasquatch! (Aug 29, 2010)

Amaranthine said:


> Really America?



How dare you even hint at dissatisfaction with the motherland?!


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## Zowie (Aug 29, 2010)

Sasquatch! said:


> How dare you even hint at dissatisfaction with the motherland?!



I was pretty sure they sent agents after you if you showed displeasure.


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## FishCharming (Aug 29, 2010)

Amaranthine said:


> Today I rediscovered my dislike of restaurants. After a mandatory trip, I was provided with a dinner buffet at a restaurant. For vegan things: salad. I mean, really? Even the potato wedges were COVERED in cheese and bacon. Really America?



if you're looking for vegan go to allentown or elmwood, the only bastions of culture in the whole city.


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## Albino_taters (Aug 29, 2010)

I heard being vegan gives you physic powers...is this true?


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## FishCharming (Aug 30, 2010)

Albino_taters said:


> I heard being vegan gives you physic powers...is this true?



best movie eva!


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## Esther (Aug 30, 2010)

Albino_taters said:


> I heard being vegan gives you physic powers...is this true?



No no... grass is only supereffective toward water, ground and rock.


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## Hozay J Garseeya (Aug 30, 2010)

Esther said:


> No no... grass is only supereffective toward water, ground and rock.



HAHAHA, I wanted to rep you for this, but I couldn't. 

Is it okay to say that I was slightly taken by this comment?


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## Sasquatch! (Aug 30, 2010)

Hozay J Garseeya said:


> HAHAHA, I wanted to rep you for this, but I couldn't.
> 
> Is it okay to say that I was slightly taken by this comment?



Don't worry Hozay, I'm there for you.

*Pulls out Repwang*


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## Albino_taters (Aug 30, 2010)

FishCharming said:


> best movie eva!



VEGAN POLICE!!


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## Sasquatch! (Sep 6, 2010)

Decided to give up dairy again. 

Been pretty easy so far until it got to pasta-time and I really wanted cheese (didn't help that there was far too much oregano in the sauce and no onion)

Still. My stomach will thank me in the long run.


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## Esther (Sep 6, 2010)

Sasquatch! said:


> Decided to give up dairy again.
> 
> Been pretty easy so far until it got to pasta-time and I really wanted cheese (didn't help that there was far too much oregano in the sauce and no onion)
> 
> Still. My stomach will thank me in the long run.



I've been toying with the idea of cutting dairy... I think I could do it. But I LOVE cheese. It's the only dairy product I'd actually miss.


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## Sasquatch! (Sep 6, 2010)

Esther said:


> I've been toying with the idea of cutting dairy... I think I could do it. But I LOVE cheese. It's the only dairy product I'd actually miss.



You could cut down the _just_ cheese, see what it's like?


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## Paquito (Sep 6, 2010)

So, I figured that this would be the best place for this.

I'm not much of a vegetable eater. I can handle corn, green beans, and cucumber, but that's about it. I've just never liked vegetables. Always bitched and moaned as a kid when we had them for dinner, so my parents eventually gave up and stopped serving them to me. But I feel like it's an important part of a good diet, so I'm gonna try to change that. 

If anyone has any good newb veggie recipes, I'd be grateful.


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## Geodetic_Effect (Sep 6, 2010)

Paquito said:


> If anyone has any good newb veggie recipes, I'd be grateful.



I'm not a big fan of veggies either. I do see them as good supplements though. These are 2 recipes I like. I prefer both with the animal fat option, as long as the animals were properly raised, but are still good with the olive oil. the stir fry is also better with the chicken stock but vegans obviously would use water.

*Stir-Fry Bean Sprouts*

4 cups bean sprouts
1 red pepper, seeded and cut into strips 
3 carrots, peeled and cut into a julienne 
¼ pound Chinese peas a.k.a. snow peas, ends removed 
4 tablespoons extra virgin olive oil or lard 
1 teaspoon freshly grated ginger 
¼ cup naturally fermented soy sauce 
1 cup water or chicken stock 
1 tablespoon arrowroot mixed with 1 tablespoon filtered water 
2 tablespoons toasted sesame seeds 

Mix soy sauce, ginger and water or stock together and set aside. Heat olive oil or lard in a frying pan or wok. Stir-fry carrots a minute or two, add peppers and cook a minute more. Add Chinese peas and stir-fry another minute. Add liquid mixture to vegetables and bring to a boil. Add arrowroot mixture along with sprouts and sesame seeds and cook a minute more, stirring constantly, until sauce thickens and vegetables become coated. Serve immediately.

*Asparagus with Sesame Seeds*

2 ½ pounds asparagus, trimmed 
2 tablespoons extra virgin olive oil or melted butter 
2 tablespoons shallots, minced 
2 tablespoons sesame seeds, lightly toasted 
juice of 1 lemon 
sea salt (I like Selina Naturally Hawaiian Deep Sea Salt}

Place oil and asparagus in a glass baking dish and toss so that the asparagus is completely coated with oil. Bake at 400 degrees for about 8 minutes, shaking the dish every two minutes or so. Sprinkle on the shallots and sesame seeds and bake, with one or two shakes, for 1 minute more. Transfer to heated serving bowl and squeeze on lemon juice. Season to taste.


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## BigChaz (Sep 6, 2010)

Geodetic_Effect said:


> I'm not a big fan of veggies either. I do see them as good supplements though. These are 2 recipes I like. I prefer both with the animal fat option, as long as the animals were properly raised, but are still good with the olive oil. the stir fry is also better with the chicken stock but *vegans obviously would use water*.



Vegetable stock
Also there are vegan-stock options that taste pretty good.


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## Geodetic_Effect (Sep 7, 2010)

BigChaz said:


> Vegetable stock
> Also there are vegan-stock options that taste pretty good.



Yes, but I've never had it that way, not sure how the flavors will mix. Vegetable stock in turkey brines is great. On other recipes I've used it as a substitute and it didn't turn out well.


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## Sasquatch! (Sep 7, 2010)

I'm still facepalming that you see vegetables as a supplement, not an integral part of the human diet.


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## Geodetic_Effect (Sep 7, 2010)

Sasquatch! said:


> I'm still facepalming that you see vegetables as a supplement, not an integral part of the human diet.



you should be "facepalming" your own comment.

sup·ple·ment
1 a : something that completes or makes an addition 


in·te·gral
1 a : essential to completeness


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## Sasquatch! (Sep 7, 2010)

I'm not going to take part in an internet dance-fight. If you want to crack out the dictionary on me that's your prerogative.
I was addressing attitude, not vocabulary.


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## Geodetic_Effect (Sep 7, 2010)

Sasquatch! said:


> I'm not going to take part in an internet dance-fight. If you want to crack out the dictionary on me that's your prerogative.
> I was addressing attitude, not vocabulary.



You don't make any sense. What else is there to address? How can you assess my attitude if you don't understand the vocabulary? It's pretty important in a text based forum. If you don't want to take part this so-called "dance-fight", you shouldn't initiate it with presumptuous, somewhat insulting statements.


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## SnapDragon (Sep 7, 2010)

Paquito, do you like raw steak and fish? If you do, you could eat more of these if you don't like vegetables. They have loads of nutrients in them that would be destroyed if you cooked them.

Sasquatch!, with respect I disagree. Vegetables aren't an integral part of the human diet, and neither is meat. There have been various tribes of people throughout the world who have survived upon meat alone, or without meat at all and done well enough to breed and last for many generations. Possibly as omnivores it's best if we have some of everything, but people's diets are their own personal choice.


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## Sasquatch! (Sep 7, 2010)

Dear Internets,

I apologize for anything I said. Ever.

Yours CBAingly,

Sassy.


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## rabbitislove (Sep 7, 2010)

Dear Sassy,
I apologize for calling you somewhat vegan, instead of completely. I am also sorry I mistook the colour of your hair. I probably cannot get the colour of your eyes right either, which means Im pretty sure Im sleeping on the couch tonight.

Also aminals, I apologize for having to go back to eggs and cheese, but its impossible to be vegan and healthy at my parents house. Sunday Im starting the 21 day vegan kickstart and plan on feelin so fresh and so clean again :bow:


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## Esther (Sep 7, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> Also aminals, I apologize for having to go back to eggs and cheese, but its impossible to be vegan and healthy at my parents house.



Impossible to be vegan and healthy EVAR.


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## rabbitislove (Sep 7, 2010)

I know. I am teh dumbz because I dont get teh nutrients from teh meatzzz.


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## Geodetic_Effect (Sep 7, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> I know. I am teh dumbz because I dont get teh nutrients from teh meatzzz.



it's true, unless you are taking a creatine supplement you are most likely less intelligent due to the vegan diet. vegetables do not contain creatine. 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1691485/?tool=pmcentrez


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## Esther (Sep 7, 2010)

Geodetic_Effect said:


> it's true, unless you are taking a creatine supplement you are most likely less intelligent due to the vegan diet. vegetables do not contain creatine.
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1691485/?tool=pmcentrez



Wait... what was it you were just saying about Sasquatch making presumptuous, somewhat insulting statements?


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## FishCharming (Sep 7, 2010)

arrrrrrrrrg!!!! i disagree with your opinion/lifestyle/favorite color!!!! Observe as i find obscure outdated medical article to validate my rightness! Reflect upon my epeen and shudder at it's might!!!! RAWR!


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## Geodetic_Effect (Sep 7, 2010)

Esther said:


> Wait... what was it you were just saying about Sasquatch making presumptuous, somewhat insulting statements?



I don't mind if he makes them. Just shouldn't complain when there is a response. And there is nothing presumptuous about my statement. And it's not meant to be insulting. Just a fact, when vegetarians are given a creatine supplement they outperform their baseline scores on intelligence tests. Creatine is not in vegetables. So her sarcastic statement is actually true. If there are moral and emotional objections to eating meat that is fine. We live in a technologically advanced society so there is synthetic creatine available to get vegans' intelligence back to level it is supposed to be.


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## Esther (Sep 7, 2010)

Your liver creates sufficient amounts of creatine. Vegans do not suffer from creatine deficiency. So this business about their intelligence not being where it is 'supposed to be' is presumptuous, insulting bullshit.


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## Geodetic_Effect (Sep 7, 2010)

Esther said:


> Your liver creates sufficient amounts of creatine. Vegans do not suffer from creatine deficiency. So this business about their intelligence not being where it is 'supposed to be' is presumptuous, insulting bullshit.



If that were true. They wouldn't perform better with an increase in dietary creatine, The mechanisms your body has in place to convert nutrients into others you are lacking, are there to get you by. Yes you can survive without them. No you will not get an overt deficiency disease. But you are not going to function at the highest possible level. Everything in life is optimized by proper balance. Going to one extreme or the other will only cause problems.


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## Esther (Sep 7, 2010)

It IS true. I have spoken to my doctor many times about my dietary choices. I have been reassured by a medical professional that a proper vegan diet is nutritionally sound. I'm not just sitting here furiously googling rebuttals to everything you say. But again, I am not going to argue about this any further because there is no getting through to the narrow-minded.


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## Geodetic_Effect (Sep 7, 2010)

Esther said:


> It IS true. I have spoken to my doctor many times about my dietary choices. I have been reassured by a medical professional that a proper vegan diet is nutritionally sound. I'm not just sitting here furiously googling rebuttals to everything you say. But again, I am not going to argue about this any further because there is no getting through to the narrow-minded.



Just because one doctor says it, doesn't make it true. Only 6% of doctors receive any training on nutrition in medical school. I am definitely not the one that is being narrow minded. I came to these conclusions through logic and researching the science on all sides. I didn't go into it with any preconceptions. I just wanted to find the truth. Being emotional and and refusing to listen to any science that goes against your moral decision will not get you to the truth. I want my body and mind to be healthy and balanced. That is my only motivation.


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## FishCharming (Sep 7, 2010)

gasp! i just found this! For the love of god, ladies! eat some meat and save the tatas!!!

Q: Ive heard mixed things about soy. Is it safe for women to eat?

A: Yes, when it's eaten as a whole foodas an edamame appetizer, for example. (This is how soy is eaten in countries like Japan and China, where breast cancer rates don't appear to be elevated.) The problem with processed soy, which is often found in soy chips, patties, and especially supplements, is that we do not always know the amount of phytoestrogens (plant chemicals in soy that function in ways similar to the hormone estrogen) in it.
This can make its effects on the human body unpredictable. And exposure to high concentrations of phytoestrogens could stimulate the growth of cells that are responsive to estrogen, which include many breast cancers.


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## Geodetic_Effect (Sep 7, 2010)

FishCharming said:


> gasp! i just found this! For the love of god, ladies! eat some meat and save the tatas!!!
> 
> Q: Ive heard mixed things about soy. Is it safe for women to eat?
> 
> ...



Some random Q&A isn't evidence of anything. And even the scientific studies showing that the estrogenic compounds in soy can be very harmful are not a reason to eat meat. Soy consumption in Asia is from mostly fermented soy products. The fermentation process breaks down the estrogens and phytic acid (phytic acid bonds with nutrients and prevents their absorption.). Everything you consume has toxins, that's why the foods preparation and balance is so important. That was a really poor attempt at mocking me. Using anecdotes about a plant containing a toxin isn't even similar to what I was doing.


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## Paquito (Sep 7, 2010)

So... any other recipes? Or just stupid fighting?


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## Sasquatch! (Sep 7, 2010)

Paquito said:


> So... any other recipes? Or just stupid fighting?



Let's start with what veg you do like.


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## Geodetic_Effect (Sep 7, 2010)

Paquito said:


> So... any other recipes? Or just stupid fighting?



lol, I posted 2 back there somewhere. plus the french usually make good veggie dishes. so a classical french cookbook would be a great source.


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## Sasquatch! (Sep 7, 2010)

Geodetic_Effect said:


> lol, I posted 2 back there somewhere. plus the french usually make good veggie dishes. so a classical french cookbook would be a great source.



I'm with Geo on this one.


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## Paquito (Sep 7, 2010)

Sasquatch! said:


> Let's start with what veg you do like.



Ummm, well corn is alright, as are green beans. Lettuce, celery, and cucumbers are better.

I hate broccoli. Don't even bother with a broccoli recipe. Not fond of carrots, but I can try them in something.

Never had salad, and if I haven't mentioned any other vegetables, I haven't tried them yet.



Geodetic_Effect said:


> lol, I posted 2 back there somewhere. plus the french usually make good veggie dishes. so a classical french cookbook would be a great source.



Duly noted and appreciated, sir.


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## FishCharming (Sep 7, 2010)

take a bag of broccoli cauliflower and carrot mix, put in a microwave safe bowl, put a little butter on top and sprinkle with a little garlic salt.cover with saran wrap, microwave 8 minutes on high and bam, yummy veggies!


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## Zowie (Sep 7, 2010)

Chop up two tablespoons of sun-dried tomatoes, a teaspoon of garlic, and half a teaspoon of archovies. Fry that up until fragrant, and add several handfulls of green beans (sugar snaps, or fiddleheads work well too), mix. Add enough water so the beans to be half-submerged, raise the heat until boiling, let simmer. Once the water is pretty much all gone, the beans should be cooked nicely.

EDIT: Anchovies aren't vegetarian... I guess you could cut those out. But they are still delicious.


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## Sasquatch! (Sep 8, 2010)

Just discovered that grate carrot, along with (red) balsamic vinegar is delicious. Could do with some raisins....maybe even feta.


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## rabbitislove (Sep 12, 2010)

Been back in Colorado, which means Im vegan again.

Pros: Feelin healthy+loving pizza w/ soy cheese

Cons: My body has to go through the first week vegan shits again. I have to get used to having no dairy to block me up.

(and I wonder why Im single...)


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## MasterShake (Sep 12, 2010)

rabbitislove said:


> Been back in Colorado, which means Im vegan again.
> 
> Pros: Feelin healthy+loving pizza w/ soy cheese
> 
> ...



This is hawt...


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## sfpaul (Sep 12, 2010)

6 spring onions
2 lemons
1/4 cup plus 1 Tbsp. butter or olive oil, divided
Kosher salt
Coarse ground black pepper
1 lb. English peas
1 lb. snap peas
2 cloves of garlic, finely chopped
4 cups vegetable broth
2 cups pearl couscous (AKA Israeli couscous)
1/2 cup crumbled feta cheese

Trim and chop onions. Set aside 1/4 of chopped onion. Put remaining 3/4 onion in a small bowl.

To make the spring onion relish: 
Zest 1 lemon. Add zest to onion. Juice lemons and add juice to onion-zest mixture. Stir in 1/4 cup of melted butter or olive oil. Add salt and pepper to taste. Set aside.

Shell English peas. Trim snap peas and cut into 1/2-inch pieces.
In a medium pot heat remaining 1 Tbsp. butter or olive oil over medium-high heat. Add reserved onion and garlic. Cook until soft, about 3 minutes.

Add broth and bring to a boil. Stir in couscous. Cook about 5 minutes, will be slightly soupy. Stir in peas and snap peas. Continue cooking and stirring for another 5 minutes.

Serve hot, warm, or at room temperature topped with spring onion relish and feta cheese.


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## WillSpark (Sep 13, 2010)

You know who else was a vegetarian? 

HITLER!


Save the plants. Eat a vegetarian.


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## Zowie (Sep 13, 2010)

WillSpark said:


> You know who else was a vegetarian?
> 
> HITLER!
> 
> ...



But only because he had a farting problem.


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## WillSpark (Sep 13, 2010)

bionic_eggplant said:


> But only because he had a farting problem.



But was that because he was vegetarian or the other way around? Important questions!

And now I really want to see my portrait for some reason.


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## sfpaul (Sep 14, 2010)

WillSpark said:


> You know who else was a vegetarian?
> 
> HITLER!
> 
> ...




Mohandas Ghandi
Tolstoy
Buddha
Pythagoras
Plato
Da Vinci
Voltaire
my personal favorite Coltrane
All vegetarians for spiritual reasons. Honestly though, now that I'm a vegetarian my farts smell a lot less like death.


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## FishCharming (Sep 15, 2010)

sfpaul said:


> Mohandas Ghandi
> Tolstoy
> Buddha
> Pythagoras
> ...



that's funny because whenever i eat broccoli my farts have been known to cause death!


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## WillSpark (Sep 15, 2010)

sfpaul said:


> Mohandas Ghandi
> Tolstoy
> Buddha
> Pythagoras
> ...



Oh, that's just silly.

Gandhi didn't eat anything. 

Also, I lol'd at "spiritual"


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## rabbitislove (Sep 15, 2010)

sfpaul said:


> Mohandas Ghandi
> Tolstoy
> Buddha
> Pythagoras
> ...



This is awesome!

Also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum


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## Sasquatch! (Sep 15, 2010)

Yeah, we all knew it would happen eventually.

So Rabbit, are you a full on lifestyle vegan?


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## rabbitislove (Sep 16, 2010)

Yes. Almost one week. And after (once again..) dealing with those pesky cheese cravings Ive never felt better. 

Tonight Im making beans and greens and sprinking in a slice of tempeh bacon


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## Sasquatch! (Sep 19, 2010)

Tempeh? Don't lose it.


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## rabbitislove (Sep 20, 2010)

Eh?

(I dont know if thats long enough)


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## Paquito (Sep 20, 2010)

Tempeh = temper in this joke.


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## Sasquatch! (Sep 20, 2010)

Paquito you're a star. *snog*


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## Mordecai (Sep 20, 2010)

Did someone say tempura?


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## Paquito (Sep 20, 2010)

Sasquatch! said:


> Paquito you're a star. *snog*



Shut up baby I know!


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## MasterShake (Sep 21, 2010)

Paquito said:


> Shut up baby I know!









"Shut up, lady ambassador, I know it!"


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## HottiMegan (Sep 21, 2010)

Interesting thread. 
I have been a vegetarian my entire life. (I ate dairy but no eggs my whole life and average a 139 on intelligent tests fyi)
I have been vegan off and on since 2007. I fall off the wagon for cheese on occasion. I don't like any other form of dairy. A great read about nutrition is Eat to Live by Dr. Joel Fuhrman. He also has a website. It was a scary eye opening book. 

And here is my favorite veggie soup recipe. It tastes like a creamy pesto soup. You blend up all the veggies so you don't have to worry about their texture or flavor too much:
(I usually add a blender full of spinach to this recipe.)
Creamy Zucchini and Basil Soup
This is from fatfreevegan.com

Cashews provide the creaminess but also virtually all of the fat. Omit them if you like, or substitute a few tablespoons of plain soy yogurt.

2 pounds zucchini (about 5 small to medium)
1 large Vidalia onion, chopped
4 cloves garlic, crushed
1/2 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon freshly ground pepper
3 cups vegetable broth (I used Imagine No-Chicken)
1/3 cup fresh basil leaves, packed
3 tablespoons raw cashews
1 tablespoon nutritional yeast
additional salt & pepper, to taste

Set aside one of the zucchini; trim and coarsely chop the rest.

Cook onion in a large saucepan for about 5 minutes, until softened. Add the garlic and cook for another minute. Stir in the chopped zucchini, salt, and pepper and cook over medium heat, stirring occasionally, for 5 minutes. Add the broth and simmer until zucchini is tender, about 15 minutes.

Pour into a blender (in 2 batches, if necessary) taking care to avoid burns by not filling the blender more than halfway. Add the basil, cashews, and nutritional yeast and blend until smooth.

Return soup to the pot, season with salt and pepper to taste, and keep warm. Shred the remaining zucchini with a spiral slicer, mandolin, or grater. Pour soup into bowls and sprinkle grated zucchini over top.


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