# Solid, Soft, or in between?



## JRZCKR (Mar 30, 2010)

Ladies who like the big fellas,

What kind of build do you prefer they have: Solid like an NFL lineman, soft like bowl full of jello, or in between that...where are you on the sliding scale? I saw this topic posted on another site, so thought I'd bring it up here. I run about 6'1 and 265 lbs sort of decent build...thought I'd see if I can get my place on the scale...BTW if any want to see a pic send me a private message.


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## escapist (Mar 30, 2010)

I think what you will find what woman finds sexy, is just someone who is sexy. No one person is alike, so every woman on here is probably going to have a different mental image of what they conjure up for their ultimate chubby fantasy. 

If your seeking a personal review of yourself. You might get better response by just posting in the: Gentlemen, Post An Awesome Pic Of Yourselves thread, and let the responses come as they will.


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## Esther (Mar 30, 2010)

I mostly date guys that are in between... the former football player look, rather than current football player. I definitely love a big, solid build... but I absolutely melt for big tough guys that got soft around the middle when they let themselves go


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## escapist (Mar 30, 2010)

Chubby Muscle Bears For the Win! YEAH! eheheheh or is that bigger than what your talking about Esther?


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## Esther (Mar 30, 2010)

escapist said:


> Chubby Muscle Bears For the Win! YEAH! eheheheh or is that bigger than what your talking about Esther?



Nope, that's pretty accurate! Haha. You summed it up better than I did. I like them bearded and hairy too, like the classic bear type.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 30, 2010)

Yeah i'd say solid for sure, the football player gone to seed is just the look that turns me on. If this makes sense, i like fat but not flab. The BHM i'm currently drooling over has a belly that i'd swear is made of granite, practically no hang at all--it just sticks out from his body like a globe and doesn't even bounce when he walks. I also like male bodies that are _thick_ with broad shoulders, muscular legs, etc. The type that even if they lost weight would still look stocky and broad.


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## escapist (Mar 30, 2010)

Esther said:


> Nope, that's pretty accurate! Haha. You summed it up better than I did. I like them bearded and hairy too, like the classic bear type.



Yeah I've been getting educated in it. I was only recently informed thats what I am. For those who need a visual reference Chicken Legs posted this earlier:





According to her I'm a chubbier version of the guy on the bike.


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## Esther (Mar 30, 2010)

escapist said:


> Yeah I've been getting educated in it. I was only recently informed thats what I am. For those who need a visual reference Chicken Legs posted this earlier...



Haha yeah! That kind of build. Now just picture one of those guys with a beard, a red plaid flannel shirt and a toque... and you have the stereotypically canadian-looking giant lumberjack man I'm into.


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## BLUEeyedBanshee (Mar 30, 2010)

In my younger days I used to go pretty much for the more solid guys, and now it seems like I'm drawn to the softer guys. What changed? I have no idea.

Maybe it was my own interaction with a really really hawt softer guy? Could be, but heck, I guess I could say all 3. 

In the end it depends on the personality inside the body though.


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## escapist (Mar 30, 2010)

Esther said:


> Haha yeah! That kind of build. Now just picture one of those guys with a beard, a red plaid flannel shirt and a toque... and you have the stereotypically canadian-looking giant lumberjack man I'm into.



Is this a bad time to admit when I lived in the NW I used to wear a a red plaid flannel shirt :blush:? ......Yeeaaahhhhhh....I tried to play it off like it was just the cool 90's grunge look lol. Come on its cold! You have to wear shirts like that its the only way to stay warm.


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## chicken legs (Mar 30, 2010)

JRZCKR said:


> Ladies who like the big fellas,
> 
> What kind of build do you prefer they have: Solid like an NFL lineman, soft like bowl full of jello, or in between that...where are you on the sliding scale? I saw this topic posted on another site, so thought I'd bring it up here. I run about 6'1 and 265 lbs sort of decent build...thought I'd see if I can get my place on the scale...BTW if any want to see a pic send me a private message.



Big tree trunk legs get me everytime:eat2::bow:. Short or tall, soft or firm, big belly or small belly, ass shelf or just a wide ass.....they have to have big legs (in proportion to their body), or the river runs dry and we can just be friends..lol.


hehehe...yes I'm equal opportunity when it comes to the lovin' of the large and sexy..


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## SnapDragon (Mar 30, 2010)

Soft. It just offers so much tactile potential.

Scientific explanation: the 'hard' fat is visceral fat, underneath the muscle and surrounding the internal organs. The 'soft' fat is subcutaneous fat, under the skin and covering the muscles.


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## Zowie (Mar 30, 2010)

Soft for sure. :happy: I mean, I still love a typically "Male" body (broad shoulders, yadayadayda), I don't have much of an attraction towards hard bellies. Plus, soft fat tends to be better distributed throughout the body, and well, yeah. It makes me happy. ^^


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## likeitmatters (Mar 31, 2010)

I prefer very tall big bellied men who are solid as a rock..aka Andre the giant type men..because I love the contrast in public and people will think who is on top and who is on the bottom.

Never really cared for men who are soft though I have been there and done that and now following my dreams...

:bow:


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## LovesBigMen (Mar 31, 2010)

I usually go for the soft guys the ones soft all over the body proportianet, but then again like many have said or a person said it comes to the inside personality that gets the last point.
So sorry for my writing its terrible. :happy:


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## bigjmccoy (Mar 31, 2010)

After a very pleasant hour of stroking his belly and chest, I gotta say: soft
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...although futher research may be required. :eat2::blush:


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## Tyrael (Mar 31, 2010)

Ahw bummer... 

to bad i have an soft-pillow like belly =(


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## LovesBigMen (Mar 31, 2010)

A soft pillow like belly is nothing to be sad about


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## stldpn (Mar 31, 2010)

I almost kinda wish a poll had been attached to this...


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## Zowie (Mar 31, 2010)

Tyrael said:


> Ahw bummer...
> 
> to bad i have an soft-pillow like belly =(



-cuddles up- x3
As LBM said, nothing to be sad about.


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## Tyrael (Mar 31, 2010)

:blush::blush::blush::blush::blush:

Now your all making me red and glowy

:blush::blush::blush::blush::blush:


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## extra_fat_guy (Mar 31, 2010)

Well I am soft all over. If any FFA wants to check for herself she is more than welcome to.


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## Amandy (Mar 31, 2010)

Soft all over, all the way.

I'm crazy for the fat ex-jock type (broad-big-strong), but especially when softened. But "hard" fat doesn't do it for me so much.


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## veil (Mar 31, 2010)

Esther said:


> Haha yeah! That kind of build. Now just picture one of those guys with a beard, a red plaid flannel shirt and a toque... and you have the stereotypically canadian-looking giant lumberjack man I'm into.



...you're into my boyfriend?? :smitten:


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## RentonBob (Mar 31, 2010)

I'm and ex football/baseball/wrestling/basketball player that has a really big gut now lol


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## Esther (Apr 1, 2010)

veil said:


> ...you're into my boyfriend?? :smitten:



Hahaha. And mine!
Maybe our boys are long lost twins!


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## Qit el-Remel (Apr 1, 2010)

I guess in-between. If that means big-framed, solidly built guys who are padded all over, anyway...


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## FishCharming (Apr 1, 2010)

my shoulders and the upper part of my chest are still hard from being in shape once upon a time but everything south of that is pleasantly mushy. I can't seem to grow a beard though, every time i try i end up looking like a fat cactus with the plague...


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## Zowie (Apr 1, 2010)

FishCharming said:


> I can't seem to grow a beard though, every time i try i end up looking like a fat cactus with the plague...



Hehehe, great imagery! But clean shaven is much much better. ^^


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## escapist (Apr 1, 2010)

stldpn said:


> I almost kinda wish a poll had been attached to this...



Ooooo Good point, I didn't even think of that.


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## FFAKAT (Apr 2, 2010)

I like extremely soft all over. Like a giant jiggly water bed, a guy the size of one would be nice too..with lots of gushy rolls and folds!:bow:


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## Buffetbelly (Apr 12, 2010)

I'm firm in some areas and soft in others, so I have fat galore for every mood and situation.....


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## FemFAtail (Apr 14, 2010)

Buffetbelly said:


> I'm firm in some areas and soft in others, so I have fat galore for every mood and situation.....




Yes! And he always keeps me _'in the mood'_, too! He is firm and soft in all the right areas! His legs and back are very big and firm from carrying a_round_ his hugely rotund, planetary belly! And that marvelous belly of his is collosal and jiggley yet tight as a drum once his voracious appetite has been satisfied (which is another turn on in its own rite)! 

I can "firmly" and gleefully attest that his "Body *is *a Wonderland"!
http://s0.ilike.com/play#John+Mayer...8.0.2.85,std_ddca35e0b9fa42428e5963c8952e861c


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## lovelocs (Apr 15, 2010)

Man soft. Even though I've been with a larger man, who was definitely fat and soft, he still wasn't as soft as me. There was still an appreciable difference, and I think that with all but the very obese, there always will be. I think it may be due to testosterone...


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## Spiderweb Sitar (Apr 15, 2010)

I'm a fan of a combo soft-solid. My man has solid arms, literally all muscle, and a deliciously soft tummy, without any abs to speak of.


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## lily352 (Apr 22, 2010)

Sorry I'm slow to answer on this one. I love this topic! I primarily go with those who said the former linemen who are now a tad past their prime perhaps. Is that the right way to say it? A big, strong looking man with a nice sized gut.... that turns my head pretty fast.


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## Ninja Glutton (Apr 22, 2010)

I have that soft underbelly and lovehandle muffin-toppage, but when I push it out I have the beachball thing going on. I'd say I'm a little of both.


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## bremerton (Apr 23, 2010)

soft, please


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## Bearsy (Apr 23, 2010)

bionic_eggplant said:


> Soft for sure. :happy: I mean, I still love a typically "Male" body (broad shoulders, yadayadayda), I don't have much of an attraction towards hard bellies. Plus, soft fat tends to be better distributed throughout the body, and well, yeah. It makes me happy. ^^



Well, hey there, have we met?


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## truebebeblue (Apr 23, 2010)

Generally speaking I like the solid fat with a broad shoulder and a little dough belly. I also swoon over those GIAGANTOR men who are like 6-6 and 300+lbs..
When they make me feel small... or like they could manhandle me a bit... woooo.
When they have pretty green or hazel eyes... it just kills me. I have also been attracted to narrow shouldered big belly style with little muscles but I think that was a personality thing because in just looking at the body style doesn't do much for me.



True


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## TaciturnBadger (Apr 24, 2010)

Slightly on the soft side of in-between, thanks!


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## likeitmatters (Apr 26, 2010)

escapist said:


> Chubby Muscle Bears For the Win! YEAH! eheheheh or is that bigger than what your talking about Esther?




R u a tough bear or a multi colored Care bear from way back? lol

:bow:


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## FishCharming (Apr 26, 2010)

personally i like to think of myself as a gummy bear... mmm, gummy bears nom nom nom!


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## likeitmatters (Apr 26, 2010)

very very tall aka andre the giant build and weight and with huge feet and big hands. Love to date a man who is at least 7ft tall and over 500lbs someday but doubt that will happen.


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## JenFromOC (May 13, 2010)

Soft, soft, soft, soft, and soft. Mmmmm I just got a little happy inside lol


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## djudex (May 13, 2010)

JenFromOC said:


> Soft, soft, soft, soft, and soft. Mmmmm I just got a little happy inside lol



Admit it, you like at least a little bit of hard


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## JenFromOC (May 13, 2010)

djudex said:


> Admit it, you like at least a little bit of hard



Whatever, LOL...I'm not going to admit to a damn thing


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## WillSpark (May 14, 2010)

djudex said:


> Admit it, you like at least a little bit of hard



And when he says a little bit, he_ means_ a little bit.


ZING-AH!

......I am so sorry for that...that was just awful...


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## Paquito (May 14, 2010)

WillSpark said:


> And when he says a little bit, he_ means_ a little bit.
> 
> 
> ZING-AH!
> ...



What? 


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ohhhhh, like a penis. Ohkay. Got it.


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## DayLovely (Jun 9, 2014)

Omg, as soft as possible. Babyish and chubby and Huuuuuuuuuuggggeee. I don't like guys who look like they might secretly play rugby. Although sometimes that isn't too bad either...


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## Anjula (Jun 10, 2014)

I recently met a football player that seriously knocked me off my feet. He has the typical OL build when it comes to shoulders, arms, legs, butt but he's belly...oh my lord. Its the most squishy thing I've ever seen. After one game, I went to the lockers area to meet up with my boyfriend and this guy was sitting there in just his sleeveless undershirt, all sweaty because of the game they just played, his tummy and boobs were completely visible because the material was all wet, he was spilling from his tight pants, this gorgeous mass of his belly covering most of his thighs, his arms so lovingly big and soft and oh my god I fucking stare at him with my jaw on the ground, I haven't even notice my boyfriend and my best friend had to literally drag me out of there because I couldn't move. I'm pretty sure I've left a wet floor. seriously


the point of this post is I LOVE THEM SOFT but with a nice muscle definition.


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## loopytheone (Jun 10, 2014)

Interesting topic!

I like soft guys! I want to be able to squeeze you in my arms and just sink in! :wubu:


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## bayone (Jun 10, 2014)

Interesting question. I think for me it starts with a preference for a round face; and then, wanting face and body to be proportionate to each other.

ETA -- trying to articulate this better -- there's a SSBHM on my morning commute who'd be cute if he didn't have an unflattering moustache; but the guy who really fascinates me is the BHM I see some mornings, usually with his wife and daughter; he has a wonderfully chubby face, with a strong but soft chin, heavy-lidded eyes with long sandy lashes, and generally handsome and well-proportioned features. He looks like a neoclassical angel.


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## Amaranthine (Jun 10, 2014)

Definitely soft - curvy - well-proportioned. If a guy with a bit of a jiggle to his walk crosses my path, my day is made. I maybe kind of like pushing my face into the stretchmarkiest places, because they're so soft and comfortable :wubu:


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## Anjula (Jun 10, 2014)

Amaranthine said:


> Definitely soft - curvy - well-proportioned.* If a guy with a bit of a jiggle to his walk crosses my path, my day is made.* I maybe kind of like pushing my face into the stretchmarkiest places, because they're so soft and comfortable :wubu:



amen


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## biglynch (Jun 10, 2014)

Amaranthine said:


> Definitely soft - curvy - well-proportioned. If a guy with a bit of a jiggle to his walk crosses my path, my day is made. I maybe kind of like pushing my face into the *stretchmarkiest/B] places, because they're so soft and comfortable :wubu:*


*

Stretchmarkiest is my new favourite word. I shall be using on a daily basis.*


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## lille (Jun 10, 2014)

Amaranthine said:


> I maybe kind of like pushing my face into the stretchmarkiest places, because they're so soft and comfortable :wubu:



Oh my goodness, yes. I love nuzzling into my boyfriend's tummy so my entire face sinks in.


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## ODFFA (Jun 10, 2014)

biglynch said:


> Stretchmarkiest is my new favourite word. I shall be using on a daily basis.



You and me both.

I vote soft too. I love silly little things like playing the anticipatory mind game of having my hand rest very lightly on the belly, knowing that it'll give way to my fingers if I pressed just a little more firmly. There's also the fact that a soft belly does the most beautiful things when laughter occurs :happy: And yes, face-burying and belly kissing. Yes.


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## bigmac (Jun 11, 2014)

Everyone's here is voting for soft -- unfortunately IRL soft fat guys get very little play.


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## Lil BigginZ (Jun 11, 2014)

bigmac said:


> Everyone's here is voting for soft -- unfortunately IRL soft fat guys get very little play.



Not with that way of thinking.


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## ODFFA (Jun 11, 2014)

bigmac said:


> Everyone's here is voting for soft -- unfortunately IRL soft fat guys get very little play.



So, are we liars or just not real?

I absolutely get that society sucks and that most women are unlikely to be forthcoming about any fat attractions they might have. Which is a ridiculously unfortunate dating strategy. I understand it's difficult. I truly, truly do. And it pisses me off to no end. But, here we were, bantering away very happily and openly, and - to put it the nicest way I possibly can - you might want to rethink ^ this approach of.......having a toilet in your kitchen.


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## Esther (Jun 11, 2014)

Lil BigginZ said:


> Not with that way of thinking.



This.

I'll get with soft guys, muscly guys, thick, firm, alllll over the board.

What I can't do is someone who won't let me get near them. How can you like someone if they won't believe you like them?


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## lille (Jun 11, 2014)

Esther said:


> This.
> 
> I'll get with soft guys, muscly guys, thick, firm, alllll over the board.
> 
> What I can't do is someone who won't let me get near them. How can you like someone if they won't believe you like them?



Exactly. While I adore my boyfriend's body, I also love his confidence and charisma. He assumes people are going to like him, and they do. I'm the first person he's been with to have a definite thing for fat, but he's had no problem finding relationships. The man who thinks he'll succeed and the man who think's he'll fail are usually both right.


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## tankyguy (Jun 11, 2014)

ODFFA said:


> So, are we liars or just not real?



As a group, you're special and not as common as I'd like.


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## ODFFA (Jun 11, 2014)

tankyguy said:


> As a group, you're special and not as common as I'd like.



^_^
I'm going to hazard a guess we're a little more common than most would think, but especially in terms of being vocal about things, I completely agree with you. I would have loved to be able to freely ramble about soft bellies on any ol' forum and not have anyone bat an eye.

Well, actually, speaking of...... I can report with pleasant surprise that I have not yet had one person send me a message on OKC, asking if I'm crazy for being openly attracted to BHMs. People have been lovely about it, on there and 'IRL.'


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## lille (Jun 11, 2014)

I realized I never actually answered the question. I prefer soft to somewhere in between.


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## Lil BigginZ (Jun 11, 2014)

If you go around thinking you're never going to get with someone because you're big then you probably wont. From my experiences girls don't really enjoy the 'woe is me' card, so have some confidence in yourself. Confidence is sexy.


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## Esther (Jun 11, 2014)

lille said:


> Exactly. While I adore my boyfriend's body, I also love his confidence and charisma. He assumes people are going to like him, and they do. I'm the first person he's been with to have a definite thing for fat, but he's had no problem finding relationships. The man who thinks he'll succeed and the man who think's he'll fail are usually both right.



My boyfriend is the same way. He is irresistibly charming, and everyone loves him because he loves himself.


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## biglynch (Jun 11, 2014)

bigmac said:


> Everyone's here is voting for soft -- unfortunately IRL soft fat guys get very little play.



Speak for yourself buddy.



Lil BigginZ said:


> If you go around thinking you're never going to get with someone because you're big then you probably wont. From my experiences girls don't really enjoy the 'woe is me' card, so have some confidence in yourself. Confidence is sexy.



Agreed.



ODFFA said:


> So, are we liars or just not real?
> 
> I absolutely get that society sucks and that most women are unlikely to be forthcoming about any fat attractions they might have. Which is a ridiculously unfortunate dating strategy. I understand it's difficult. I truly, truly do. And it pisses me off to no end. But, here we were, bantering away very happily and openly, and - to put it the nicest way I possibly can - you might want to rethink ^ this approach of.......having a toilet in your kitchen.


And agreed.


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## Tad (Jun 11, 2014)

Regarding BigMac's post, let me invoke Miller's Law. Roughly "To understand what another person is saying, you must assume that it is true and try to imagine what it could be true of." (Of course, you could just decide that the person is a raving lunatic or that for some reason their experiences are completely invalid, but I like to hope that people would rather understand).

Whatever else BigMac may be, I don't think he is a liar or delirious, so I'll accept that this has been his experience.

One explanation is what has been suggested here: that if you don't expect success, you are not apt to find it. But with that one there is a chicken and egg question, why would you start off not expecting success? To me that suggests that his resigned tone comes after experiencing this. 

Now, there are all sorts of possible reasons for that experience, but he knows that, he is a lawyer, he's used to looking at evidence I would think. But I'll extend the benefit of the doubt and say that he's looked at this fairly hard, from different angles, and still come to this observation as what best matches his experience and observation.

Now, the original question was:


> What kind of build do you prefer they have: Solid like an NFL lineman, soft like bowl full of jello, or in between that



To this I'd totally echo BigMac's comment. Be it on boards like this or even out and about in more general society, finding women who like guys who are BIG (tall, muscular, broad shouldered.....but also with some weight on them) isn't all that uncommon. I suspect that if you gather a dozen random women, get a few drinks into them, and then asked who liked the linebacker or burly lumberjack look, you'd get one or two who say it was yummy. It may not be that popular, but it is certainly out there, and wouldn't raise that many eyebrows I suspect.

I've never heard/seen a woman say she preferred the bowl full of jelly look except on sites like this, and even then it has been far from universal (vs the linebacker, etc). There are certainly women who like it, but it does not surprise me in the least to see that someone's experience is that they are hard to find.

Certainly if someone is fat, single, and wants a girfriend, and does not have a strong personal preference for being soft or for having the gf be attracted to their softness and jiggliness, I'd absolutely advice them to start doing weights and build up as much muscle as they could, as I strongly suspect that would increase the number of women who would be interested in them.

Of course, that there are some who like soft is one of the reasons I keep hanging around this place. I totally love hearing the FFA view of the world


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## loopytheone (Jun 11, 2014)

Lil BigginZ said:


> Not with that way of thinking.





ODFFA said:


> So, are we liars or just not real?
> 
> I absolutely get that society sucks and that most women are unlikely to be forthcoming about any fat attractions they might have. Which is a ridiculously unfortunate dating strategy. I understand it's difficult. I truly, truly do. And it pisses me off to no end. But, here we were, bantering away very happily and openly, and - to put it the nicest way I possibly can - you might want to rethink ^ this approach of.......having a toilet in your kitchen.





lille said:


> Exactly. While I adore my boyfriend's body, I also love his confidence and charisma. He assumes people are going to like him, and they do. I'm the first person he's been with to have a definite thing for fat, but he's had no problem finding relationships. The man who thinks he'll succeed and the man who think's he'll fail are usually both right.





Lil BigginZ said:


> If you go around thinking you're never going to get with someone because you're big then you probably wont. From my experiences girls don't really enjoy the 'woe is me' card, so have some confidence in yourself. Confidence is sexy.



I absolutely agree with all of these. One of the things that frustrates me with men and women of all sizes is that attitude of 'I'll never get a man/woman to like be because of x'. Guess what, there are people out there who like everything. And all of us FFAs that have just explained we prefer softer men do live in the real world to, we are real people who are out there fancying those soft men for real. 

When I was a most unpopular teenager my mother used to explain something to me. She told me that for every person that comes up to me and expresses an interest in me there are ten more who are just as interested or think I am just as cute/funny/smart but they just don't choose to approach me, for whatever reason. I mean, I don't go about hitting on every single soft, big man I see but that doesn't mean that I don't find most of them attractive. Reasons for not hitting on them include: I am in a relationship; they are in a relationship; they are having fun with a bunch of mates and I don't like walking up to groups of random men; I am out with my friends and more interested in talking to them; the guy looks like he has a loud/arrogant/boring/racist/sexist/self-pitying attitude and isn't the type of person I'd want to hang around with; the guy is ugly; the guy is old enough to be my dad or young enough to be taught by me. So say there are ten women in the room who, like me, think this guy is attractive... well, we aren't all going to go over there and in fact none of us might. That doesn't mean that nobody thinks he attractive, just that a lower proportion of the population do so whilst he is likely getting admiring glances and thoughts he might not be getting people come over to him just out of sheer numbers/probability. Just one way of thinking about it. Not to mention that a lot of guys that are bigger tend not to go out as much so are around women less. 

I've been told by people so many times before that nobody will find me attractive unless I wear makeup/'act like a girl'/wear tight clothes/smile more/wear perfume and for a long time I thought they must be right and true to my thoughts, nobody ever approached me. Then I thought screw this, I am amazing and awesome and somebody else will see that without me changing anything, even if I have wait for years and years to find somebody who thinks a weirdo like me is attractive. And you know what? Without changing anything I started getting hit on a lot. Your attitude does make a huuuge difference, as everybody above has put.


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## tankyguy (Jun 11, 2014)

Re: confidence, self-defeating attitudes; it's a complicated subject.

Most fat/obese guys are probably going to have body issues if they grew up large. I don't think it's possible in this culture to not have that baggage.

The image of the fat, bespectacled neckbeard geek is our cultural shorthand for an undesirable male.

But it's up to the individual to deal with their baggage and prevent it from getting between them and potential happiness. Sometimes that means faking confidence and optimism until you can make it genuine.

One _may never_ find an available, compatible woman who's into "the bowl full of jelly look". That's the hard truth. 

But you _definitely_ won't find one by acting like a perpetual sad sack. That's also the truth.


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## WhiteHotRazor (Jun 11, 2014)

Linebacker is really a bad term for a big guy these days most linebackers are shredded and run 40 yard dashes in the mid to high 4 second range. Just sayin haha. 

I fall into the lumberjack category or maybe a offensive lineman that wasn't tall enough or possibly a college fullback. I've never had a problem with women ever, well Maybe in middle school or Highschool when every girl wanted to date a guy that looked like they were in a boy band, that shit doesn't really count though. People don't even really know what they want at that age. 

Confidence and sense of humor go a long way and also not being their "funny fat friend" who's always there for them, fuck that shit. You put yourself into that doting bullshit category and that's how they'll always look at you. 

If you're sitting around constantly thinking that your size is an issue than it will be to others as well.


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## Tad (Jun 11, 2014)

WhiteHotRazor said:


> Linebacker is really a bad term for a big guy these days most linebackers are shredded and run 40 yard dashes in the mid to high 4 second range. Just sayin haha.



Ack, I was never good at football positions. Meant Offensive Lineman, not Linebacker, sorry.


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## Sasquatch! (Jun 11, 2014)

I think both of sides of the argument are wrong.

Yes, "Woe is me" puts women off.
However simply being confident doesn't get you women. I'd hope women would give themselves slightly more credit than that, too.

And it's all well and good posting photos of famous fat men who've got women partners. They're famous and quite well off, which makes them far less socially undesirable.

Be confident, that's vital. But claiming that's the one thing keeping fat men from successful dating is unhelpful for both women and men.


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## lille (Jun 11, 2014)

Sasquatch! said:


> I think both of sides of the argument are wrong.
> 
> Yes, "Woe is me" puts women off.
> However simply being confident doesn't get you women. I'd hope women would give themselves slightly more credit than that, too.
> ...



It's definitely not the only thing, but a woe is me attitude can take a guy from being attractive to not in a real hurry.


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## Sasquatch! (Jun 11, 2014)

lille said:


> It's definitely not the only thing, but a woe is me attitude can take a guy from being attractive to not in a real hurry.



Honestly, it's pretty much the equivalent of airline economy/premium economy seats.

It's a massive leap in investment (in oneself) but ultimately you're still in the shit end of the plane.


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## bigmac (Jun 11, 2014)

Tad said:


> ...
> 
> One explanation is what has been suggested here: that if you don't expect success, you are not apt to find it. But with that one there is a chicken and egg question, why would you start off not expecting success? To me that suggests that his resigned tone comes after experiencing this.



All very true. However, I haven't been totally unsuccessful -- I'm married to a very smart and good looking woman. Also, over the years (I just turned 50) I've had my share of partners. While I am rather quite and reserved in social settings I am by no means a negative person (indeed quite the opposite).

That said my opinion is indeed based on experience.



Tad said:


> Now, there are all sorts of possible reasons for that experience, but he knows that, he is a lawyer, he's used to looking at evidence I would think. But I'll extend the benefit of the doubt and say that he's looked at this fairly hard, from different angles, and still come to this observation as what best matches his experience and observation.



I've always considered myself a keen observer and realist. I have observed over the years that the way females interact with me varies with my weight. I've never accepted being fat. I was a fat kid and have fighting my weight with varying degrees of success since I was 15. During thinner periods women are much friendlier. During thinner periods women (I'm talking BBWs) were much more likely to respond positively if I approached them. During fatter periods I was pretty much the 320 pound invisible man.




Tad said:


> Now, the original question was:
> 
> To this I'd totally echo BigMac's comment. Be it on boards like this or even out and about in more general society, *finding women who like guys who are BIG (tall, muscular, broad shouldered.....but also with some weight on them) isn't all that uncommon*. I suspect that if you gather a dozen random women, get a few drinks into them, and then asked who liked the linebacker or burly lumberjack look, you'd get one or two who say it was yummy. It may not be that popular, but it is certainly out there, and wouldn't raise that many eyebrows I suspect.



Yes, women who like big football player type guys were my demographic. But it works only to a point. I'm tall (6'4") and although I'm not naturally muscular years of weight training have given me broad shoulders, a wide back, and fairly deep chest. Several times I've been mistaken for actual pro-football players. However, all the positive feedback stops when I get too fat. Up to about 280 pounds at least some women find me attractive and I get treated with respect and deference by guys in testosterone fueled situations. At 320 pounds I'm the invisible fat guy. 



Tad said:


> I've never heard/seen a woman say she preferred the bowl full of jelly look except on sites like this, and even then it has been far from universal (vs the linebacker, etc). There are certainly women who like it, but it does not surprise me in the least to see that someone's experience is that they are hard to find.



Yes. A couple of personal examples. In 1995 I went to my first NAAFA convention. I had just got out of the Army and was in the best shape of my life. I had women coming up to me and starting conversations all weekend (one even gave me a key to her room). A few years and 60 pounds later I went to a Vegas Bash. Not one woman approached me all weekend and the ones I approached all shot me down in short order. The lesson I take away from this is that there are indeed many women who like big burly guys -- but once you cross the line from big and strong to big and fat the number of interested females drops precipitously. 





Tad said:


> Certainly if someone is fat, single, and wants a girfriend, and does not have a strong personal preference for being soft or for having the gf be attracted to their softness and jiggliness, *I'd absolutely advice them to start doing weights and build up as much muscle as they could, as I strongly suspect that would increase the number of women who would be interested in them.*



I'd second this advice. It is however a never ending commitment -- when life gets in the way its very easy to revert back to the soft fat guy (speaking from experience).


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## lille (Jun 11, 2014)

I'm sorry that that has been your experience. My boyfriend generally hovers between 300-315 and is 5'10" and while he is not everyone's type, as I have mentioned he also doesn't have much trouble finding a partner either. There definitely is a stigma, we get looks when we're out together though I think just as much if not more if that is due to our age difference (he's 12 years older and I look young for my age). I wasn't trying to say that it's easy for fat guys, I'm just saying that not all soft guys have the experience you do and that confidence and charm go a long way.


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## Amaranthine (Jun 11, 2014)

I agree that confidence is a plus, though far from a complete game winner. And being insecure isn't a complete mark of doom. "Woe is me" is unattractive but, in my opinion, much much more unattractive when accompanied by desperateness. 

I want to be with someone if I'm naturally and genuinely interested in/attracted to them as a person. And that kind of involves acting like normal people. Not having the other party trying to convince me to date them because no one else will. 

It'd also be nice to never have to worry about someone thinking I'm mocking them, or not being serious. Shitty societal attitudes kind of make it worse for everyone. 

~~

Back on topic, from my obviously biased perspective, I find it weird that people can find fat gross. How can you deny that soft is better for cuddling? It just feels so _nice._ _Nice_ enough to warrant superfluous italics and a chain of creepy emotes: :eat2::eat2::eat2:

What am I supposed to do with a six-pack? Kind of rub my hand over it? Lick it? ...Polish it? I'm not sure what to do when there's nothing to grab.


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## MrSensible (Jun 12, 2014)

tankyguy said:


> Re: confidence, self-defeating attitudes; it's a complicated subject.
> 
> Most fat/obese guys are probably going to have body issues if they grew up large. I don't think it's possible in this culture to not have that baggage.
> 
> ...





Amaranthine said:


> I agree that confidence is a plus, though far from a complete game winner. And being insecure isn't a complete mark of doom. "Woe is me" is unattractive but, in my opinion, much much more unattractive when accompanied by desperateness.
> 
> I want to be with someone if I'm naturally and genuinely interested in/attracted to them as a person. And that kind of involves acting like normal people. Not having the other party trying to convince me to date them because no one else will.
> 
> It'd also be nice to never have to worry about someone thinking I'm mocking them, or not being serious. Shitty societal attitudes kind of make it worse for everyone.



I was going to add in to this, but you both summed up my thoughts completely.

As for the topic, this kind of functionality has to be worth something.


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## ODFFA (Jun 12, 2014)

Tad said:


> Regarding BigMac's post, let me invoke Miller's Law. Roughly "To understand what another person is saying, you must assume that it is true and try to imagine what it could be true of." (Of course, you could just decide that the person is a raving lunatic or that for some reason their experiences are completely invalid, but I like to hope that people would rather understand).



First of all :bow:

Secondly, I do completely understand Bicmac's statement itself. My reaction was a combination of my grumpiness at the time and his perceived tone. I just found it a but unfortunate that, instead of 

"Hell yeah! Women who love soft guys!"

I heard

"What good does this do when there's so few of you out in the real world?"
/sadtubasound

That's what happened in my head when I read it. Possibly the first time ever I didn't react to a BHM-lamentation with nothing but understanding. The opportunities to celebrate my attraction 'out in the real world' without scorn are rare enough. Just wanted to enjoy that privilege a bit longer here. That is my FFA woe-is-me lamentation. 

I do have enormous respect for how challenging it is out there for a soft BHM though. I do. And I try to encourage as much as I'm able to. 



Sasquatch! said:


> I think both of sides of the argument are wrong.
> 
> Yes, "Woe is me" puts women off.
> However simply being confident doesn't get you women. I'd hope women would give themselves slightly more credit than that, too.



YES!



> And it's all well and good posting photos of famous fat men who've got women partners. They're famous and quite well off, which makes them far less socially undesirable..



Knew someone'd bring this up eventually and I'm glad you did. It's a verrry valid point. It's just that.... they _got_ famous and well-off. They weren't always. Which is another achievement that might feel unattainable to most aspiring BHMs, to a lesser extent than romance perhaps, but still. Also, I happen to know that not all famous BHMs got their partners after becoming famous / that not all partners knew of their fame upon meeting them. I just thought.... a picture is worth a thousand words, and famous people tend to be an easy find on the internet 

Are all those relationships inevitably based on status, money and perceived confidence? I'd hope women and men would give themselves more credit than that.
----------------

TL;DR: Winter is whipping my grumpy ass and I am in dire need of soft, squishy cuddles.


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## Esther (Jun 12, 2014)

Amaranthine said:


> Back on topic, from my obviously biased perspective, I find it weird that people can find fat gross. How can you deny that soft is better for cuddling? It just feels so _nice._ _Nice_ enough to warrant superfluous italics and a chain of creepy emotes: :eat2::eat2::eat2:
> 
> What am I supposed to do with a six-pack? Kind of rub my hand over it? Lick it? ...Polish it? I'm not sure what to do when there's nothing to grab.



I feel the same way. I can't fathom how girls can get into slim guys. And this is how you can tell that we are FFAs and they aren't, haha.


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## Esther (Jun 12, 2014)

lille said:


> It's definitely not the only thing, but a woe is me attitude can take a guy from being attractive to not in a real hurry.



Yeah, this. Obviously confidence is not the only requirement I have in a partner. I was approached by a drunk homeless man last Saturday night. He was so confident, he took out his dong and pissed on the street in front of me while I was sitting outside of a pizza place trying to eat a slice. Then he winked. I did not go for it.


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## Melian (Jun 12, 2014)

Esther said:


> I feel the same way. I can't fathom how girls can get into slim guys. And this is how you can tell that we are FFAs and they aren't, haha.



YEP. Some of my friends have the skinniest boyfriends and, while I would NEVER say anything to them, I can't help but think "how is that fun for you?"


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## lille (Jun 12, 2014)

Melian said:


> YEP. Some of my friends have the skinniest boyfriends and, while I would NEVER say anything to them, I can't help but think "how is that fun for you?"



I had a friend who when we were on campus would point to a group of guys and say "isn't he cute?!" And I'd have no idea which one she was referring to because none of them were my type.


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## Tad (Jun 12, 2014)

ODFFA said:


> TL;DR: Winter is whipping my grumpy ass and I am in dire need of soft, squishy cuddles.





Esther said:


> I feel the same way. I can't fathom how girls can get into slim guys. And this is how you can tell that we are FFAs and they aren't, haha.





Melian said:


> YEP. Some of my friends have the skinniest boyfriends and, while I would NEVER say anything to them, I can't help but think "how is that fun for you?"



Have I mentioned lately how much I enjoy hanging around FFA? Makes the world seem a much nicer place (even if one of them is a cyborg assassin).


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## Tad (Jun 12, 2014)

lille said:


> It's definitely not the only thing, but a woe is me attitude can take a guy from being attractive to not in a real hurry.



My general rule is that for guys, leading with a weakness is a pretty sure way to drive women away. Women may get some attention with that tactic from guys who feel inspired to protect her (or who wish to exploit the weakness, or who feel so under-confident that they figure they should target the weakest), but I've yet to hear of that working for a guy, seen it portrayed in any stories or movies, etc. It seems to be as close to a universal law of dating as I've seen, although like anything involving humans I'm sure that there are exceptions.

Not saying guys aren't allowed to show weakness, but it is the combination of strength (of whatever sort) and vulnerability that seems to work.


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## biglynch (Jun 12, 2014)

Tad said:


> Have I mentioned lately how much I enjoy hanging around FFA? Makes the world seem a much nicer place (even if one of them is a cyborg assassin).




Cyborg. Assassin. No idea who that could be. Your going to have to be more specific.


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## tankyguy (Jun 12, 2014)

Tad said:


> Have I mentioned lately how much I enjoy hanging around FFA? Makes the world seem a much nicer place



I know, right?
It makes me appreciate them back. :smitten:



> (even if one of them is a cyborg assassin).



But seriously, who isn't willing to overlook that minor quibble?


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## Amaranthine (Jun 12, 2014)

Esther said:


> Yeah, this. Obviously confidence is not the only requirement I have in a partner. I was approached by a drunk homeless man last Saturday night. He was so confident, he took out his dong and pissed on the street in front of me while I was sitting outside of a pizza place trying to eat a slice. Then he winked. I did not go for it.



This is amazingly terrible. You should have told him he wasn't chubby enough. Which is probably especially awful to say to a homeless person...



lille said:


> I had a friend who when we were on campus would point to a group of guys and say "isn't he cute?!" And I'd have no idea which one she was referring to because none of them were my type.



Do you not find thinner guys aesthetically pleasing at all? Like...I can still - on some level - appreciate thin men with nice facial features or something. Though I would qualify my agreement in such a situation. I don't want to have sex with them, and would be rather happy if they never touched me at all...but they could still be pretty.

On that topic...I often want just one IRL friend that I can gush over fatties with. Everyone else gets to fawn over people they find attractive :really sad:


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## WhiteHotRazor (Jun 12, 2014)

I was at a bar last Friday and I saw this big dude walk in with this blonde chick that I recognize bc she's a bartender at this other bar I go to after softball. So, I thought "hmm maybe she's into big dudes" but then I notice their interactions and the way he was doting on her and kinda following her around like a lost puppy and their body language. Classic case of this guy being stuck in the "friend zone". Poor bastard. Then I see her outside talking to this other dude and hear him asking her "oh is that guy your boyfriend?" And her replying "no he's just a friend but he likes me but I'm just not interested". Then the big dude comes outside and sees her talking to this dude and I just see the look on his face and he goes back inside. 

It was an awful thing to watch.


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## Amaranthine (Jun 12, 2014)

WhiteHotRazor said:


> It was an awful thing to watch.



As actually awful as it sounds...I dunno, I have issues making any sort of judgment there. Because the same exact thing can happen with an FFA and thin men. I can straight out tell someone that I'm absolutely not interested in thin men...to little avail. Everyone wants to be the exception, particularly when they can't empathize at all.

Sometimes I feel like I'd be better off just identifying myself as a lesbian to potential male friends. Either they can jump ship immediately upon realizing nothing more will ever happen, or let me be...one of the guys? So to speak.


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## WhiteHotRazor (Jun 12, 2014)

Yea I don't really know the situation,obviously there could be a bunch of variables but from a fly on the wall perspective it didn't look very pleasant .


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## ODFFA (Jun 12, 2014)

Amaranthine said:


> On that topic...I often want just one IRL friend that I can gush over fatties with. Everyone else gets to fawn over people they find attractive :really sad:



Never a truer word spoken.

I had one of those in high school.....kind of. I don't think she was, uh, "as much of an FFA" as I was. But she did have a vague appreciation for soft cuddliness herself, and I just instinctively knew I could wholeheartedly gush over my.... verrry-not-vague appreciation for it. She would point guys out to me if we were gallivanting about somewhere. She'd even fantasize with me in elaborate detail about just how swimmingly a date with my big crush at the time could go. She'd reflect my thoughts to me perfectly. And with the slightly more muscular variety of BHMs she found attractive, I didn't have too much trouble doing the same for her. A rare and wonderful privilege.


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## bayone (Jun 12, 2014)

It _is_ nice to be able to discuss this outside of my own head, so to speak. Ive been trying to articulate this kind of stuff for most of my life, as have, I imagine, most others here.


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## lille (Jun 12, 2014)

Amaranthine said:


> This is amazingly terrible. You should have told him he wasn't chubby enough. Which is probably especially awful to say to a homeless person...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I do find some thin guys aesthetically pleasing, just none of the same ones she does. We have completely different tastes in men. She tried to set me up with a guy once, dear god he was like a list of everything I don't want in a guy. One of my exes was thin and athletic when we started dating, her remained athletic but put on 30lbs over the two years we were dating. I did have a sexual relationship with a very thin guy who I can only describe as pretty and it was very weird to have no squish to touch. Fun for a night or two but not something I want on the regular.


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## bigmac (Jun 13, 2014)

WhiteHotRazor said:


> I was at a bar last Friday and I saw this big dude walk in with this blonde chick that I recognize bc she's a bartender at this other bar I go to after softball. So, I thought "hmm maybe she's into big dudes" but then I notice their interactions and the way he was doting on her and kinda following her around like a lost puppy and their body language. Classic case of this guy being stuck in the "friend zone". Poor bastard. Then I see her outside talking to this other dude and hear him asking her "oh is that guy your boyfriend?" And her replying "no he's just a friend but he likes me but I'm just not interested". Then the big dude comes outside and sees her talking to this dude and I just see the look on his face and he goes back inside.
> 
> It was an awful thing to watch.



If you want to get play don't be nice. Strange as it may seem women respond better to being ignored and even dissed a little. I was like this hapless guy when I was young. I discovered -- quite by accident -- that if you're a bit of an ass women actually respond better.


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## Amaranthine (Jun 13, 2014)

bigmac said:


> If you want to get play don't be nice. Strange as it may seem women respond better to being ignored and even dissed a little. I was like this hapless guy when I was young. I discovered -- quite by accident -- that if you're a bit of an ass women actually respond better.



I don't think it seems all that strange. Men typically have the burden of pursuing, so women have the burden of being pursued. If a guy has the ability to be appealing to a woman (say, the right looks, the right traits...) then making yourself a bit of a...challenge? drives it home. Rather than someone who makes it abundantly known that they're yours for the taking. 

Maybe there's a bit of cognitive dissonance there. "I had to work harder for this, so I want it more."


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## MrSensible (Jun 13, 2014)

Amaranthine said:


> I don't think it seems all that strange. Men typically have the burden of pursuing, so women have the burden of being pursued. If a guy has the ability to be appealing to a woman (say, the right looks, the right traits...) then making yourself a bit of a...challenge? drives it home. Rather than someone who makes it abundantly known that they're yours for the taking.
> 
> Maybe there's a bit of cognitive dissonance there. "I had to work harder for this, so I want it more."



I can't deny how true this is, but I don't think I'll ever get it. I'd much rather just be direct with someone (and vice versa), rather than the "playing the game" thing, but that's probably one of the reasons I'm still single, heh.


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## ODFFA (Jun 13, 2014)

MrSensible said:


> *I can't deny how true this is, but I don't think I'll ever get it.* I'd much rather just be direct with someone (and vice versa), rather than the "playing the game" thing, but that's probably one of the reasons I'm still single, heh.



^^^^^^^^^^
:bow:

Took dem words straight outta mah mouf, Mr INFJ. ( <--- Idk, been hearin' a lotta ghetto parodies lately.)


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## WhiteHotRazor (Jun 13, 2014)

bigmac said:


> If you want to get play don't be nice. Strange as it may seem women respond better to being ignored and even dissed a little. I was like this hapless guy when I was young. I discovered -- quite by accident -- that if you're a bit of an ass women actually respond better.



Pretty much why this dude was in the position he was in. It was just sad to watch. He placed no value on himself. Oh did you guys think I was blaming the chick? Haha


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## Anjula (Jun 13, 2014)

Amaranthine said:


> Do you not find thinner guys aesthetically pleasing at all? Like...I can still - on some level - appreciate thin men with nice facial features or something. Though I would qualify my agreement in such a situation. I don't want to have sex with them, and would be rather happy if they never touched me at all...but they could still be pretty.



I can sometimes find nicely muscled guys really hot, hot enough to have sex with them but never to get into anything serious with them because it's usually a phase when I need some ekhem hard fuck? Every fat guy in my life was always very gentle and nice and sweet and I prefer it rather rough so maybe that's why I can sometimes skip the softness lol idk I just never felt like pretending and making anyone like what they don't that's why I never try to convince my vanilla guys to be more spicy and I just look for it in guys that look more rough? lol idk
Does it make me any less of FFA?


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## Sasquatch! (Jun 13, 2014)

Anjula said:


> Does it make me any less of FFA?



Yes.


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## bigmac (Jun 13, 2014)

Anjula said:


> I can sometimes find nicely muscled guys really hot, hot enough to have sex with them but never to get into anything serious with them because it's usually a phase when I need some ekhem hard fuck? Every fat guy in my life was always very gentle and nice and sweet and I prefer it rather rough so maybe that's why I can sometimes skip the softness lol idk I just never felt like pretending and making anyone like what they don't that's why I never try to convince my vanilla guys to be more spicy and I just look for it in guys that look more rough? lol idk
> Does it make me any less of FFA?



Sometimes guys just can't win. One woman says "not so hard -- you're hurting me" the next wants it rougher and rougher.


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## lille (Jun 13, 2014)

bigmac said:


> Sometimes guys just can't win. One woman says "not so hard -- you're hurting me" the next wants it rougher and rougher.



Which is why flexibility is good.


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## Esther (Jun 16, 2014)

WhiteHotRazor said:


> I was at a bar last Friday and I saw this big dude walk in with this blonde chick that I recognize bc she's a bartender at this other bar I go to after softball. So, I thought "hmm maybe she's into big dudes" but then I notice their interactions and the way he was doting on her and kinda following her around like a lost puppy and their body language. Classic case of this guy being stuck in the "friend zone". Poor bastard. Then I see her outside talking to this other dude and hear him asking her "oh is that guy your boyfriend?" And her replying "no he's just a friend but he likes me but I'm just not interested". Then the big dude comes outside and sees her talking to this dude and I just see the look on his face and he goes back inside.
> 
> It was an awful thing to watch.



Why are women blamed when this happens? A man is not owed sex or a relationship just for 'being nice' or 'being a good friend'. And you know what? If you don't like being just a friend to a woman, feel free to STOP AT ANY TIME.

The term 'friend zone' is all about butthurt and unreciprocated feelings being blamed on the woman. It is such a piss-off.


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## Esther (Jun 16, 2014)

bigmac said:


> If you want to get play don't be nice. Strange as it may seem women respond better to being ignored and even dissed a little. I was like this hapless guy when I was young. I discovered -- quite by accident -- that if you're a bit of an ass women actually respond better.




I do not like being ignored or dissed because I respect and value myself.

Being an asshole = repellant to women.
Being desperate = repellant to women.

There are probably a million other ways to behave that fall somewhere in between, and are not repellant. Choose one of those.


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## tankyguy (Jun 16, 2014)

Esther said:


> Why are women blamed when this happens? A man is not owed sex or a relationship just for 'being nice' or 'being a good friend'. And you know what? If you don't like being just a friend to a woman, feel free to STOP AT ANY TIME.
> 
> The term 'friend zone' is all about butthurt, unreciprocated feelings being blamed on the woman, and it is such a piss-off.



I think it's a question of respect and consideration. In that specific instance, it sounds like she knew he was into her as more than a friend, but she didn't cut him loose or set him straight that it wasn't ever to happen. I have to wonder how much she really respects him.

Maybe she didn't confront his attraction because she didn't want to hurt his feelings? But certainly talking to other guys with him around was bound to do that eventually. Maybe that's what she was trying for; a 'soft', indirect rejection. But what she did was actually worse for him than being honest and direct.

Maybe she didn't want to lose his friendship? But to me that's selfish when she knows he wants to be more than friends. She's taking what she wants from him, knowing she will never give him what he wants. That's no better than a guy using a girl for casual sex when she wants a relationship.

All in all, the story sounds like two emotionally immature people who are trying to take what they want from the other, both unwilling to communicate and be honest.


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## WhiteHotRazor (Jun 16, 2014)

Esther said:


> Why are women blamed when this happens? A man is not owed sex or a relationship just for 'being nice' or 'being a good friend'. And you know what? If you don't like being just a friend to a woman, feel free to STOP AT ANY TIME.
> 
> The term 'friend zone' is all about butthurt and unreciprocated feelings being blamed on the woman. It is such a piss-off.



I wasn't blaming the woman at all. All I was saying it was rough to watch because you could tell this guy had hurt feelings. This dude clearly had more than friends in mind and she didn't. Who's fault is that? Most likely his.


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## WhiteHotRazor (Jun 16, 2014)

tankyguy said:


> I think it's a question of respect and consideration. In that specific instance, it sounds like she knew he was into her as more than a friend, but she didn't cut him loose or set him straight that it wasn't ever to happen. I have to wonder how much she really respects him.
> 
> Maybe she didn't confront his attraction because she didn't want to hurt his feelings? But certainly talking to other guys with him around was bound to do that eventually. Maybe that's what she was trying for; a 'soft', indirect rejection. But what she did was actually worse for him than being honest and direct.
> 
> ...



I mean that's a lot of assumption but that is what it looked like.


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## Esther (Jun 16, 2014)

WhiteHotRazor said:


> I wasn't blaming the woman at all. All I was saying it was rough to watch because you could tell this guy had hurt feelings. This dude clearly had more than friends in mind and she didn't. Who's fault is that? Most likely his.



The term 'friend zone' denotes fault on the woman's part, as it implies that she has unfairly rejected his advances, when he really 'deserves' sex or a relationship for being so nice. You know, because a guy is entitled to sex or a relationship from every woman he's nice to? Maybe you didn't intend to use it that way, but the term itself is super problematic and stems from a culture of entitlement that really disgusts me.


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## WhiteHotRazor (Jun 16, 2014)

Haha Ok...


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## Esther (Jun 16, 2014)

Is it really amusing? It's not difficult to understand why I, or any woman would object to the use of this term. It clearly has negative connotations, and 99% of the time when people say it, they're talking about the girl as if she is being a huge bitch for not sleeping with someone.


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## WhiteHotRazor (Jun 16, 2014)

It is amusing because I don't think at any point I said "she owed him sex". You're taking a term I said and creating your own definition of it and acting like that's what I was implying. All I meant was he obviously liked her more than a friend and she didn't feel the same way. That's my definition of "friend zone" since were making things up.


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## lille (Jun 16, 2014)

I'm 100% with Esther on this one. It's an extremely problematic term because it reinforces the idea that men who are nice to women deserve sex and that being considered a friend by a woman is a bad thing. It perpetuates the idea that men are entitled to sex, perpetuates rape culture, and contributes to the thinking of people like Elliot Rodgers that leads to violence. 


As a rape survivor and someone who has been made to feel like the only thing I can give a man is sex and that my friendship is worth nothing, I think that this is a more serious issue that's people realize. Obviously the term friend zone doesn't cause rape or violence, but it contributes to a larger rape culture.

I highly recommend this article http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2011/06/friend-zone-myth/

These are good too.
http://mightygodking.com/2007/12/16/the-internet-nice-guy-rears-his-ugly-head-once-more/

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/05/27/your-princess-is-in-another-castle-misogyny-entitlement-and-nerds.html


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## WhiteHotRazor (Jun 16, 2014)

Define "nice". Does a male friendship mean they should dote on you and buy you drinks and walk around like you're the focal point of the evening? because that's what this guy was doing and she didn't seem to have a problem with that. At no point did I say she should be giving this guy sex because of that. Maybe she shouldn't let him do that or tell him that's not how it is though.


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## tankyguy (Jun 16, 2014)

I think it's worth noting that having unrequited feelings for someone who you are friends with is not generally considered problematic in itself. Women often express frustration in trying to get the attention of guys they fancy, and sometimes, anger about wasted effort. It's what you do with those feelings that makes it bad or not. IE, lashing out, blaming the other person, dwelling on it instead of moving on, etc.


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## lille (Jun 16, 2014)

WhiteHotRazor said:


> Define "nice". Does a male friendship mean they should dote on you and buy you drinks and walk around like you're the focal point of the evening? because that's what this guy was doing and she didn't seem to have a problem with that. At no point did I say she should be giving this guy sex because of that. Maybe she shouldn't let him do that or tell him that's not how it is though.



I've found that generally women do try to get tht point across but they may be too subtle about it. They either don't want to hurt the guy's feelings and lose the friendship or they worry about his reaction. I have personally had my rejection of a guy whom I saw as a friend and who wanted wanted to date me result in violence, though towards my boyfriend at the time and not towards me. He was a neighbor whom I had know for years and invited me to icecream and a movie. I thought we were hanging out as friends, he apparently thought it was a date. I tried to pay for my icecream and I belie managed to convince him to let me pay for my movie. He tried I hold my hand and I made it very clear with my body language ( crossing my arms so my hands were not available) that I didn't want that. I realized he thought it was a date and mentioned my new boyfriend whom we both went to karate with. A day or two later they were sparring at karate and the guy tried to turn it into an all out fight. He later apologized to my boyfriend but hasn't spoken a word to me since.


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## WhiteHotRazor (Jun 16, 2014)

Crazy stuff. Sorry it had to resort to karate.


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## Tad (Jun 16, 2014)

Esther said:


> Is it really amusing? It's not difficult to understand why I, or any woman would object to the use of this term. It clearly has negative connotations, and 99% of the time when people say it, they're talking about the girl as if she is being a huge bitch for not sleeping with someone.



Really? Because almost every time I've heard it used, I read the implication as "Guy doesn't have game, fell into a bad pattern and can't get himself out." I.E. as a mildly sympathetic put down of the guy involved. The only real exceptions being those guys who blame everything on other people, in which case the effect is the same, they are just holding up the large sign pointing at themself. Never have I read it and thought critical thoughts about the woman doing it.

Of course, different social circles can have different usage, and we are looking at the world through different filters. I'm not questioning that you almost always see it used the way you stated it, just saying that I don't think everyone uses it that same way.


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## RentonBob (Jun 16, 2014)

Tad said:


> Really? Because almost every time I've heard it used, I read the implication as "Guy doesn't have game, fell into a bad pattern and can't get himself out." I.E. as a mildly sympathetic put down of the guy involved. The only real exceptions being those guys who blame everything on other people, in which case the effect is the same, they are just holding up the large sign pointing at themself. Never have I read it and thought critical thoughts about the woman doing it.
> 
> Of course, different social circles can have different usage, and we are looking at the world through different filters. I'm not questioning that you almost always see it used the way you stated it, just saying that I don't think everyone uses it that same way.



I agree with Tad. I have actually never heard this put in a way to be negative towards the woman and I in no way feel this contributes to rape in anyway. 

I understand that there may be some bad experiences out there but, those are related to the jerks that would have done that anyway no matter what "tag" had been applied to them.

In my experience, I have seen it as a guy was interested in a woman but she only wanted to be friends. And in that case, when you know he wanted more, can you really blame a guy for not wanting to be around someone who rejected him? Most guys in this situation would move on and look for someone else who is interested in them. I don't think it's his resposibility to hang around and make sure the feelings of the person who rejected him aren't hurt because he wants to find a relationship of some kind. And I really don't think that says that someone's friendship isn't worthwhile.


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## lucca23v2 (Jun 16, 2014)

bigmac said:


> If you want to get play don't be nice. Strange as it may seem women respond better to being ignored and even dissed a little. I was like this hapless guy when I was young. I discovered -- quite by accident -- that if you're a bit of an ass women actually respond better.



Being a bit of an asshole works with some women. I find that some women with strong characters like men that are either totally submissive, or a bit of an asshole. They either want the man to totally give into them, or one that can hold thier own with her.

That being said, being an ass should only be doled out in sparing measures..
I tend to like men with a sharp tongue, but only because i have one. If I can get the better of a man during banter, I lose interest. I like a man that can make me think...keep me on my toes sort to speak..

To the original question, I like them inbetween.


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## lucca23v2 (Jun 16, 2014)

Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with the term, *because if we are going to be honest*, there are women who understand and are very well aware of the fact that some men like them and they use that to their advantage to go out and get free dinners and drinks and stuff. That is the reality of it. The term has it's purpose. Much like the term shmuck.


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## bigmac (Jun 17, 2014)

Esther said:


> Is it really amusing? It's not difficult to understand why I, or any woman would object to the use of this term. It clearly has negative connotations, and* 99% of the time when people say it, they're talking about the girl as if she is being a huge bitch for not sleeping with someone*.



I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion. I doubt there are many guys out there who haven't been "friend zoned". This doesn't mean we're all a bunch of woman hating proto rapists.

Its actually all about the guy. When a woman makes it clear that she's not interested in a romantic and/or sexual relationship a guy can either move on or not. Its the guy who decides whether he's going to be pathetic or not.


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## Esther (Jun 17, 2014)

WhiteHotRazor said:


> It is amusing because I don't think at any point I said "she owed him sex". You're taking a term I said and creating your own definition of it and acting like that's what I was implying. All I meant was he obviously liked her more than a friend and she didn't feel the same way. That's my definition of "friend zone" since were making things up.



I know you never said that, and I acknowledged that you may not have knowingly used the term in that way. Please read over my reasons for objecting to the term. I was pointing out why it is a poisonous idea overall. I said the term itself 'denotes', and 'implies' that women owe nice guys sex. I'm not 'making up' my own definition for it - do a web search for this term and you will find hundreds of articles examining why it is problematic, and how it is hurtful toward women.

But feel free to ignore its negative connotations and continue using it. It's your life.


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## Esther (Jun 17, 2014)

lille said:


> I'm 100% with Esther on this one. It's an extremely problematic term because it reinforces the idea that men who are nice to women deserve sex and that being considered a friend by a woman is a bad thing. It perpetuates the idea that men are entitled to sex, perpetuates rape culture, and contributes to the thinking of people like Elliot Rodgers that leads to violence.
> 
> 
> As a rape survivor and someone who has been made to feel like the only thing I can give a man is sex and that my friendship is worth nothing, I think that this is a more serious issue that's people realize. Obviously the term friend zone doesn't cause rape or violence, but it contributes to a larger rape culture.
> ...



I'm glad you understand what I was getting at.
For some reason pointing out how certain ideas, words and phrases can be harmful or demeaning toward women seems to be more inflammatory than using them to begin with.


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## WhiteHotRazor (Jun 17, 2014)

Esther said:


> I know you never said that, and I acknowledged that you may not have knowingly used the term in that way. Please read over my reasons for objecting to the term. I was pointing out why it is a poisonous idea overall. I said the term itself 'denotes', and 'implies' that women owe nice guys sex. I'm not 'making up' my own definition for it - do a web search for this term and you will find hundreds of articles examining why it is problematic, and how it is hurtful toward women.
> 
> But feel free to ignore its negative connotations and continue using it. It's your life.



Sounds good.


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## bigmac (Jun 17, 2014)

Esther said:


> I know you never said that, and I acknowledged that you may not have knowingly used the term in that way. Please read over my reasons for objecting to the term. I was pointing out why it is a poisonous idea overall. *I said the term itself 'denotes', and 'implies' that women owe nice guys sex.* I'm not 'making up' my own definition for it - do a web search for this term and you will find hundreds of articles examining why it is problematic, and how it is hurtful toward women.
> 
> But feel free to ignore its negative connotations and continue using it. It's your life.



Of course women don't owe anyone sex. The term caught on not because guys hate women. The term caught on because almost every guy (and probably women too) on the planet has experienced unrequited love. We've all spent time pathetically trailing after a female or two. The vast majority of us guys figured out how to find non-friend zone relationships. Guys use the term to make fun of their past and to mock guy friends who may still be stuck. Indeed the term has surprising little to do with women -- its about clueless guys.


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## bigmac (Jun 17, 2014)

To bring this thread back toward the original topic -- fat guys often end up in the "friend zone" because they lack confidence and/or experience. While lots of women on this board profess to like big soft guys real life is not so rosy. If a guy is not getting much positive feedback its easy to see how he could settle for the "friend zone" -- something being better than nothing. However, in the long-run this type of thinking is very self-destructive.


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## KingBuu (Jun 18, 2014)

I don't really mind the 'friend zone' but I as a single person usually ignore anyone that I know is in a relationship. If I'm not going to get 'that" out of someone I ignore and move on. My problem has never been one of confidence, maybe not enough experience but of having to deal with the emotional toll of a lot of rejection that now stands at 5 years, but it doesn't make me depressed just sad for others who don't see what a great guy I am.


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## Amaranthine (Jun 18, 2014)

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet: http://www.dailydot.com/news/elliot-rodger-mens-rights-activists/




RentonBob said:


> In my experience, I have seen it as a guy was interested in a woman but she only wanted to be friends. And in that case, when you know he wanted more, can you really blame a guy for not wanting to be around someone who rejected him? Most guys in this situation would move on and look for someone else who is interested in them. I don't think it's his resposibility to hang around and make sure the feelings of the person who rejected him aren't hurt because he wants to find a relationship of some kind. And I really don't think that says that someone's friendship isn't worthwhile.



This is the part I'm unsure how to feel about. Maybe specifically being told something like, "Well, I have enough friends. Sorry."

If someone's trying to get the idea across that they're genuinely interested in me as a person, that certainly doesn't make it feel like it. If I were interested in someone, and they rejected me romantically/sexually but still wanted to be friends...I don't think I'd have a problem with that. I'd recognize that it's not a potential option, and enjoy their company anyway. Granted, I'm biased in the sense that much of my given-rejection is due to physical incompatibility, and I'd be perfectly fine with someone who liked hanging around me as a person, but wasn't attracted to me.

But on the other side - going back to the thread - I can see how it would be shitty/frustrating/disheartening to be _frequently_ rejected due to physical appearance. I find it kind of frustrating that more women can't appreciate what the ladies here do, or feel too self-conscious in society to express it.


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## MrSensible (Jun 18, 2014)

Amaranthine said:


> This is the part I'm unsure how to feel about. Maybe specifically being told something like, "Well, I have enough friends. Sorry."
> 
> If someone's trying to get the idea across that they're genuinely interested in me as a person, that certainly doesn't make it feel like it. If I were interested in someone, and they rejected me romantically/sexually but still wanted to be friends...I don't think I'd have a problem with that. I'd recognize that it's not a potential option, and enjoy their company anyway. Granted, I'm biased in the sense that much of my given-rejection is due to physical incompatibility, and I'd be perfectly fine with someone who liked hanging around me as a person, but wasn't attracted to me.
> 
> But on the other side - going back to the thread - I can see how it would be shitty/frustrating/disheartening to be _frequently_ rejected due to physical appearance. I find it kind of frustrating that more women can't appreciate what the ladies here do, or feel too self-conscious in society to express it.




I love how I'm not the only one who stays up this late around here, heh.

I have to admit, I had never really considered the possible negative connotations to the term "friend zone" before -- at least not in the sense that it was insulting to the person not reciprocating the affections of the would-be, eh... friend-zoner. If anything the term seems more like an absurd implication that becoming "just a friend" with someone that isn't interested in you romantically, is somehow a terrible turn of events. I mean sure, if you really like someone and they clearly don't feel the same way about you, it's a pretty shitastic feeling, but if you potentially gain a great new friend in the process, that's certainly something -- in my opinion, anyway.

In other words, I'd rep your post if I could .


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## tankyguy (Jun 18, 2014)

Amaranthine said:


> I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet: http://www.dailydot.com/news/elliot-rodger-mens-rights-activists/



Every time I hear about that story I think: "Ya know, I've had zero success in romance also. I've got 10+ years on him with the social stigma of being a guy in his (getting to be mid-) 30's who's never been on a date. I _don't_ have a rich dad or a BMW. But somehow I've managed to *not* kill anyone."


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## WhiteHotRazor (Jun 18, 2014)

tankyguy said:


> Every time I hear about that story I think: "Ya know, I've had zero success in romance also. I've got 10+ years on him with the social stigma of being a guy in his (getting to be mid-) 30's who's never been on a date. I _don't_ have a rich dad or a BMW. But somehow I've managed to *not* kill anyone."



Some people are just psychos.


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## WhiteHotRazor (Jun 18, 2014)

I definitely didn't expect this thread to turn into this or was aiming to offend anyone.


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## biglynch (Jun 18, 2014)

So I waited before jumping in on this one so here goes.

I have been friend zoned. Which I thought it means we will remain friends, and we did. I have also been the reverse of this and knocked back an advance from a female friend, and we remained chums also. 

If someone decided after being knocked back to be an ultimate shithole then that's that persons problem, and the term friend does not apply at all. 

On the original post about the guy, hell I don't feel to bad for him as he's put himself in that spot. It sucks that she's not interested in him but he's got to take responsibility if he's going to be a lapdog. Been there, got the tee.

Anyways just my take on the whole thing, and I do get where some of the women are coming from but I'd also its not the term that's big problem its the people who claim the term and then blame everything thing else apart from themselves. 

I was friend zoned, as she wasn't interested in a relationship, but its cool as we are still chums = OK

I was friend zoned, and fuck her how dare she act like a mate, then knock me back when I show my feelings = not OK.

I can never tell if I've explained myself clearly so sorry in advance.

... I wonder if we can get back to belly based face plant chat. ( that's got a premium rate number sound to it)


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## vardon_grip (Jun 18, 2014)

Esther said:


> The term 'friend zone' denotes fault on the woman's part, as it implies that she has unfairly rejected his advances, when he really 'deserves' sex or a relationship for being so nice. You know, because a guy is entitled to sex or a relationship from every woman he's nice to? Maybe you didn't intend to use it that way, but the term itself is super problematic and stems from a culture of entitlement that really disgusts me.



"Friend zone" is gender neutral. It is neither fair or unfair. (or it can be both...depending on the mental/emotional state of the pursuer) There are no entitlement issues with the term. Desire, expectation and/or reciprocation are different things. Some people confuse the three when they are interested in another person. Your experience with the term may have been as you described, but that is not the intent of the term.


In reference to the OP
I like my friendships solid, my landings soft and usually find my self stuck in between a rock and a hard place.


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## RentonBob (Jun 18, 2014)

Amaranthine said:


> I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet: http://www.dailydot.com/news/elliot-rodger-mens-rights-activists/
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I guess the point I was trying to get accross is that it could be awkward for one or both of them, not that someone had the attitude of I already have enough friends. Though, I do admit, that probably does happen. Let's face it, there are good and bad people on both sides but, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt until they show me they don't deserve to be taken for their word.

Just from my own experience when I have tried to be friends with someone who rejected me, I have found that if I didn't make the effort to keep in contact or try and set something up then, nothing happened. It can be really tiring when all the effort to be friends is one sided.


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## Sasquatch! (Jun 18, 2014)

RentonBob said:


> I guess the point I was trying to get accross is that it could be awkward for one or both of them, not that someone had the attitude of I already have enough friends. Though, I do admit, that probably does happen. Let's face it, there are good and bad people on both sides but, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt until they show me they don't deserve to be taken for their word.
> 
> Just from my own experience when I have tried to be friends with someone who rejected me, I have found that if I didn't make the effort to keep in contact or try and set something up then, nothing happened. It can be really tiring when all the effort to be friends is one sided.



Yeah, It's really shitty when someone who you thought was your friend doesn't give a shit (or worse, is actively talking shit about you). People should have the decency to be honest about things like that.


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## WhiteHotRazor (Jun 18, 2014)

This stuff doesn't happen to me too often bc I don't allow it to. I can generally can tell if a woman likes me more than a friend. I'm not into the whole trying to win someone over thing. Normally if there's a spark it's there from the start. I don't ever try to make anyone like me.


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## WhiteHotRazor (Jun 18, 2014)

And by "make anyone like me" I do not mean rape, just to clarify since it seems like this thread is a bed of eggshells.


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## Tad (Jun 18, 2014)

Back on the original topic....I wish I could be more soft. I have more of the ball belly, which is not only supposed to be less healthy, it gets in the way more and makes clothes tougher, since it is not as pliable and can't be squished around to fit in the same way. 

I guess the flip side is that a softer belly might make you look fatter for the same size, which could draw more attention to your weight (great around a fat lover, not always so much around everyone else)


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## bayone (Jun 18, 2014)

Tad said:


> I guess the flip side is that a softer belly might make you look fatter for the same size, which could draw more attention to your weight (great around a fat lover, not always so much around everyone else)



I don't know -- presumably it wouldn't project as much.


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## Tad (Jun 18, 2014)

bayone said:


> I don't know -- presumably it wouldn't project as much.



Fair point--but more jiggling and bouncing and hanging, I'm thinking movement catches the eye? I guess there are arguments both ways.

Clearly the only solution to this quandry is to make a police line-up like parade of BHM and rate how noticeable their bellies are!


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## ODFFA (Jun 18, 2014)

Tad said:


> Fair point--but more jiggling and bouncing and hanging, I'm thinking movement catches the eye? I guess there are arguments both ways.
> 
> Clearly the only solution to this quandry is to make a police line-up like parade of BHM and rate how noticeable their bellies are!



Well, you know, I _guess_ I would benevolently agree to sit on such a judging panel - being a professional appraiser of belly amazingness..... I'm sure with a bit of effort my schedule could be cleared. If you asked nicely.


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## Amaranthine (Jun 18, 2014)

Tad said:


> Back on the original topic....I wish I could be more soft. I have more of the ball belly, which is not only supposed to be less healthy, it gets in the way more and makes clothes tougher, since it is not as pliable and can't be squished around to fit in the same way.
> 
> I guess the flip side is that a softer belly might make you look fatter for the same size, which could draw more attention to your weight (great around a fat lover, not always so much around everyone else)



I've given up on trying to discern someone's actual weight from how they look. Because just from observations so far, at least in pictures, two people of the same weight can look completely different. 

For men with the ball belly look, it seems more frequent for them to be able to pull off looking thin every where else - like arms, legs. So maybe someone could argue, "Well...he's...mostly thin. Just had a few too many beers." 

A squisher guy may be able to distribute the weight more evenly so it's a little longer until they're pronouncedly fat in any certain area - but once you get there, it's hard to ignore.


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## tankyguy (Jun 18, 2014)

ODFFA said:


> Well, you know, I _guess_ I would benevolently agree to sit on such a judging panel - being a professional appraiser of belly amazingness..... I'm sure with a bit of effort my schedule could be cleared. If you asked nicely.



I see the possibility for a reality TV series in this.


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## biglynch (Jun 18, 2014)

I think my only issue i have about being a squishy fat dude, is as an under the gut trouser guy, if i wear a belt it cuts in and can be rather irritating. Other than that its cool for me.


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## Tad (Jun 18, 2014)

biglynch said:


> I think my only issue i have about being a squishy fat dude, is as an under the gut trouser guy, if i wear a belt it cuts in and can be rather irritating. Other than that its cool for me.



Well, the thing with a ball belly--at least for me, where my belly sits quite low-- is that every day I'm trying to fasten trousers a third of the way up a rugby ball, then trying to get them to stay there as I move around. I swear I'd probably have let myself get heavier if only braces were in style! (or robes, or togas or pretty much anything that didn't have to be belted in place on my lack of a waist)

OK, I'm not a pure ball belly, I have some softness on the lower side, so I can more or less keep things in place by yanking a belt tight into that, but then it is way too tight when I sit down....if the belt is positioned to be non-painful when sitting, when I stand up my trousers are at risk of not following, or certainly of not staying up once I start walking, barring me pulling them back up every few steps  Yes, I know I've complained about this before--it is an annoyance that re-annoys on a daily basis, and I'm pretty paranoid that if I let myself get any bigger that the situation would move from annoyance to outright pathetic.


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## biglynch (Jun 18, 2014)

Tad said:


> Well, the thing with a ball belly--at least for me, where my belly sits quite low-- is that every day I'm trying to fasten trousers a third of the way up a rugby ball, then trying to get them to stay there as I move around. I swear I'd probably have let myself get heavier if only braces were in style! (or robes, or togas or pretty much anything that didn't have to be belted in place on my lack of a waist)
> 
> OK, I'm not a pure ball belly, I have some softness on the lower side, so I can more or less keep things in place by yanking a belt tight into that, but then it is way too tight when I sit down....if the belt is positioned to be non-painful when sitting, when I stand up my trousers are at risk of not following, or certainly of not staying up once I start walking, barring me pulling them back up every few steps  Yes, I know I've complained about this before--it is an annoyance that re-annoys on a daily basis, and I'm pretty paranoid that if I let myself get any bigger that the situation would move from annoyance to outright pathetic.



Braces are ok I think. I want a pair of dungarees but they are impossible to find in my size.


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## bayone (Jun 18, 2014)

tankyguy said:


> I see the possibility for a reality TV series in this.



"And a 4.1 from the Russian judge." :huh:


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## bayone (Jun 18, 2014)

biglynch said:


> Braces are ok I think. I want a pair of dungarees but they are impossible to find in my size.



I like men in braces. My spouse has worn them consistently for the last couple of years (though these days they're to keep his jeans from falling off as he's lost a bit of weight )

I found him a nice pair a month or so back at Honest Ed's closing-out sale -- wide elastic, black with little white dots. They look good with his dark blue shirts.


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## ToniTails (Jun 19, 2014)

i like all the shapes and sizes, but i'm fond of a nice soft belly pillow


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## Saisha (Jun 21, 2014)

What matters most to me is how they carry themselves on the inside and how that shines through to the world, even just at one person at a time, in small moments.


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## lucca23v2 (Jun 21, 2014)

Tad said:


> if only *braces* were in style! (or robes, or togas or pretty much anything that didn't have to be belted in place on my lack of a waist)




I am assuming this means suspenders? Well the men here wear suspenders sometimes, if the outfit or occasion calls for it. They may not be "in style" but when worn correctly, it looks very smart and fashionable.


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