# Do thick girls make skinny guys uncomfortable because they're thicker than they are?



## AMbomb (Dec 11, 2016)

Do they feel emasculated or like the girl's thickness accentuates their thinness?


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## landshark (Dec 12, 2016)

Not at all. Not for me, anyway. I'm lean (not really "skinny") and my wife outweighs me by a significant number of pounds and even though she is shorter is visibly "larger" than me. I don't feel emasculated at all by this. It actually makes me feel really good and excited to be married to such and awesome woman.


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## Tad (Dec 12, 2016)

Do any guys feel this way? Almost for sure. Is it common? I don't think so. At least, you don't hear about such feelings around here much.

When you think about it, you'd have to have a conjunction of multiple viewpoints, I think, to make this a thing.
- that largeness is somehow a masculine trait
- that your masculinity is heavily tied in to this specific aspect of what you view as masculine.
- that your masculinity can be threatened or reduced by external factors like that
- that you pay much attention to your perceived masculinity

Or maybe I'm missing something?


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## Dr. Feelgood (Dec 12, 2016)

Tad said:


> When you think about it, you'd have to have a conjunction of multiple viewpoints, I think, to make this a thing.
> - that largeness is somehow a masculine trait
> - that your masculinity is heavily tied in to this specific aspect of what you view as masculine.
> - that your masculinity can be threatened or reduced by external factors like that
> - that you pay much attention to your perceived masculinity



This pretty well describes the majority of men where I live. I think one reason they rag on men with larger girlfriends is because the woman is perceived as having the masculine quality (large size) of the pair. They are teasing the guy for being -- in their view, at least -- effeminate.


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## Tad (Dec 12, 2016)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> This pretty well describes the majority of men where I live. I think one reason they rag on men with larger girlfriends is because the woman is perceived as having the masculine quality (large size) of the pair. They are teasing the guy for being -- in their view, at least -- effeminate.



I am boggled. Not that a guy with a fat girlfriend would get ragged on -- that is still an unfortunate reality in our society -- but from that particular approach being common.


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## Fleur (Dec 13, 2016)

My boyfriend feels happy that I'm thicker than him and always touch and play with my curves and I'm quite happy I have very big breasts/hips, it makes me feel more feminine and he also thinks that it's more feminine! (also he doesn't like girls smaller than him!)
I think is personal.


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## Forgotten_Futures (Dec 13, 2016)

The mere notion of this boggles the mind. I could see a guy not wanting to date a _stronger_ or more mechanically adept* woman over emasculation issues, but sheer mass?

*Chicks with mechanical skills are hot. Muscle-y ones not so much, but not because of feelings of emasculation.


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## Tracii (Dec 13, 2016)

To me it would be a sign that he isn't secure in his manliness.Not good.
Worries too much about what other guys think of him.Not good again.
He needs to man up and love his big beautiful woman !!!


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## Tad (Dec 13, 2016)

Forgotten_Futures said:


> The mere notion of this boggles the mind. I could see a guy not wanting to date a _stronger_ or more mechanically adept* woman over emasculation issues, but sheer mass?
> 
> *Chicks with mechanical skills are hot. Muscle-y ones not so much, but not because of feelings of emasculation.



I would hasten to add that the part in white is your opinion -- plenty of guys like strong women! And plenty of FA like the combination of fat and muscles.


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## tonynyc (Dec 14, 2016)

Tad said:


> I would hasten to add that the part in white is your opinion -- plenty of guys like strong women! And plenty of FA like the combination of fat and muscles.


 
I guess that would depend on the level of muscularity ... as for strength do you consider an athletic BBW along the lines of Weightlifting and Track and Field-but, that is another issue


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## Forgotten_Futures (Dec 14, 2016)

Tad said:


> I would hasten to add that the part in white is your opinion -- plenty of guys like strong women! And plenty of FA like the combination of fat and muscles.



But of course!

And there's nothing wrong with a strong woman, I just have an aesthetic turn-off for highly _visible_ musculature in women. Particularly abs.

ETA: Obvious corollary: Strong/fit women with fat covering their muscle = yum.


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## Fleur (Dec 14, 2016)

I find it more a turn on if he is the muscular/strong one and I'm the fatty, like I'm super plump, but he can lift me. He too. Maybe I'm just lucky I'm short in size!


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## landshark (Dec 14, 2016)

BigCutieFleur said:


> I find it more a turn on if he is the muscular/strong one and I'm the fatty, like I'm super plump, but he can lift me. He too. Maybe I'm just lucky I'm short in size!



I'm so with you on this! I love being fit and partnered with a woman of my wife's shape and size. It's an insanely beautiful combination. My wife, while not happy with her own body, does really seem to love mine. 

To Tad'a point about people being ragged on, I have indeed experienced it. I've seen a lot of people make assumptions about me due to my preferences but it doesn't really bother me. I've also experienced people show a lot of support and open mindedness; an ability to acknowledge that everyone is different and likes different things. There's no need to be insecure about it. Like what you like, pursue it, and be happy!


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## Fleur (Dec 14, 2016)

happily_married said:


> I'm so with you on this! I love being fit and partnered with a woman of my wife's shape and size. It's an insanely beautiful combination. My wife, while not happy with her own body, does really seem to love mine.
> 
> To Tad'a point about people being ragged on, I have indeed experienced it. I've seen a lot of people make assumptions about me due to my preferences but it doesn't really bother me. I've also experienced people show a lot of support and open mindedness; an ability to acknowledge that everyone is different and likes different things. There's no need to be insecure about it. Like what you like, pursue it, and be happy!



I'm happy you agree and I also agree with what you said "like what you like, pursue it, and be happy!" another version of *Live and Let Live* in Italian is "vivi e lascia vivere" I hope I have translated it right!


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## LeoGibson (Dec 14, 2016)

tonynyc said:


> I guess that would depend on the level of muscularity ... as for strength do you consider an athletic BBW along the lines of Weightlifting and Track and Field-but, that is another issue



I consider that my personal kryponite. I instantly go ga-ga for the big, tall muscular BBW's like weight lifters, power lifters, and throwers. :smitten:


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## Jack Secret (Dec 16, 2016)

AMbomb said:


> Do they feel emasculated or like the girl's thickness accentuates their thinness?



Man, I had never felt anything close to that before. I'm skinny I mean, almost freakishly so! Being with a large woman made me feel no more or less masculine.


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## tonynyc (Dec 17, 2016)

LeoGibson said:


> I consider that my personal kryponite. I instantly go ga-ga for the big, tall muscular BBW's like weight lifters, power lifters, and throwers. :smitten:



Absolutely...A pst Ex years ago was a High School Shot Putter. 

Now, in terms of my current situation and dynamics... As for me I am a BHM and my Significant Sweetie is a SSBBW. I like the fact that she enjoys going to the gym. We each do our own specific workout which is tailored to our own specific needs and goals. 

It's good for both the physical and mental health.


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## fuelingfire (Dec 17, 2016)

Are you asking about thin guys who are or are not FAs? I suspect there is a back story to where this question is coming from. I am curious if the above answers are giving you the answer you wanted. Because this is on the main board rather than the FA board, I was wondering.

I read a research article about 6 years ago about why FA’s might prefer a fat partner. Most of the theories were funny or borderline offensive, one of the possible reasons was as a political statement. My penis makes few political statements.  The one I thought I would agree with the most was viewing a fat female as a sign of hyper-femininity, for example wider hips/larger breasts. 

As a muscular/lean FA, there is nothing about a fat woman that I see as masculine. I would say that when it comes to flirting I get far more excited to flirt with a fat woman than a thin woman. It almost borders intimidated, though that is really the wrong word. It’s a lot easier to flirt with someone when you are not interested, no pressure.


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## Xyantha Reborn (Dec 17, 2016)

I think for men who equate their sexuality with me larg(er/est) in the relationship, a larger woman could make feel a lack of maculinity.

As an FFA i find the size of a BHM more masculine than thin men. Not that thin men are emasculated by their size, but something in a BHM makes me feel more femanine in comparison, if that makes sense.

OP is this in regards to a specific situation? I ask because if th BBW is outspoken for example, it could be the way she acts vs her size. Or maybe he is embarassed in a given situation but not at home? Way too many undefined variables, and the question is quite general.


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## landshark (Dec 17, 2016)

fuelingfire said:


> Are you asking about thin guys who are or are not FAs? I suspect there is a back story to where this question is coming from. I am curious if the above answers are giving you the answer you wanted. Because this is on the main board rather than the FA board, I was wondering.



This is a good question for OP and I hope he'll revisit this thread and elaborate. And you raise a good point about the answers for FAs and non-FAs likely being highly different. Still, it would be hard to convince me that non-FAs don't like fat women because they're intimidated. You and I are both into fitness for ourselves but personally prefer fat woman. But a lot of the men I work out alongside (and I'm sure many in your gym as well) have no interest in fat women. Some of them are nasty about it, true enough, but many just want a partner who's interests are similar to his and who is willing to put the work into her body he does his. While that's not for me personally I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. 



fuelingfire said:


> I read a research article about 6 years ago about why FAs might prefer a fat partner. Most of the theories were funny or borderline offensive, one of the possible reasons was as a political statement. My penis makes few political statements.  The one I thought I would agree with the most was viewing a fat female as a sign of hyper-femininity, for example wider hips/larger breasts.



I've seen so much go into answering the question of why some men like fat women and I agree it's reached a point where it's become offensive. As if you need to commission a high-dollar study to figure out something that amounts to basic preference! I guess it's just too difficult for some people to understand: some of us actually WANT a fat partner! There isn't some deep psychological explanation for it; it's as simple as preferences vary person to person. I personally appreciate women of all shapes, sizes and ethnicities. But I noticed something at a very young age: while I liked what I saw out of a lot of different body types, my penis was telling me what I really liked. And for a good part of my life I tried to change that. I was attracted to fat women but wished like hell I wasn't. While I believe we are all free to make choices and can change a lot about ourselves over time, I also think there's a lot about our preferences that are hard wired in. While that doesn't mean we don't own our own decisions, I believe it predisposes us to like certain things and dislike others. And for whatever reason I just like fat women. 



fuelingfire said:


> As a muscular/lean FA, there is nothing about a fat woman that I see as masculine. I would say that when it comes to flirting I get far more excited to flirt with a fat woman than a thin woman. It almost borders intimidated, though that is really the wrong word. Its a lot easier to flirt with someone when you are not interested, no pressure.



I believe a woman of any shape and size can be masculine. I don't think it's necessarily size related. And I get what you're saying about the flirting thing. I have a coworker who is extremely popular with a lot of men in and around us. A while back I mentioned to her that I like bigger women and that my wife was a plus size woman. She admitted a couple things: that it explained why I never flirted with her (she admitted that she knew it made her sound egotistical, so don't be too hard on her!) and she also realized it was a professional compliment to her because it underscored I valued her for her professionalism and had no underlying motivations.

On an aside, when my wife met this same woman she told me, "You can flirt with her all day. She's a cutie, but I know she's not a threat!" I've not started flirting with this person and don't intend to, but my wife is fun like that!


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## landshark (Dec 17, 2016)

Xyantha Reborn said:


> I think for men who equate their sexuality with me larg(er/est) in the relationship, a larger woman could make feel a lack of maculinity.
> 
> As an FFA i find the size of a BHM more masculine than thin men. Not that thin men are emasculated by their size, *but something in a BHM makes me feel more femanine in comparison, if that makes sense.
> *
> OP is this in regards to a specific situation? I ask because if th BBW is outspoken for example, it could be the way she acts vs her size. Or maybe he is embarassed in a given situation but not at home? Way too many undefined variables, and the question is quite general.



I can appreciate this. Many years ago I was dating a woman whose step sister was a physical therapist employed by the Carolina Panthers. This woman was over 6 feet tall, thick, muscular, strong, fit, etc... When I met her I asked her if she liked working for an NFL team and she said, "I LOVE IT! I love being around all those players because they make me feel petite!" I'm 5'7" and at the time was probably around 150 pounds. I wouldn't have been much more than an appetizer for her!


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## fuelingfire (Dec 18, 2016)

happily_married said:


> This is a good question for OP and I hope he'll revisit this thread and elaborate. And you raise a good point about the answers for FAs and non-FAs likely being highly different. Still, it would be hard to convince me that non-FAs don't like fat women because they're intimidated. You and I are both into fitness for ourselves but personally prefer fat woman. But a lot of the men I work out alongside (and I'm sure many in your gym as well) have no interest in fat women. Some of them are nasty about it, true enough, but many just want a partner who's interests are similar to his and who is willing to put the work into her body he does his. While that's not for me personally I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I can easily recognize which women are conventionally attractive, but have no interest in the ones who are not at least a bit chubby (in a relationship manner). I realized I was attracted to fat women around the age of 5. I dont remember most of the interactions that thought me that I am not supposed to like fat women, but they really just taught me to hide that I did like fat women. I spent a great deal of time, trying to convince or train myself to like thin women. Around the time I was in junior high I gave up on the hope that I would want to miss use Victoria Secret catalogs, as many jokes on tv implied that is what teenagers do. Though I was still in the closet and dating athletic girls for about the next 5 years.

I view a fat woman as being a sign of hyper-femininity based solely upon looks. Though their personality and attitude maybe masculine. I would say I get more of a rush from flirting with a larger woman, due to being more nervous. I could say that I see a ssbbws size as being intimidating, but that still comes down to looks and rarity. Are you saying just based just on looks you see them as more masculine? As we have a lot of similar view and experience, I often wonder where we differ.

I have had my share of attractive thin women confused about why I am not flirting or return flirting with them. As I implied in the thin women jealous of fat women thread, I just think that is normal. My response varies from showing a picture of my girlfriend, just saying I like fat women, or flirting for about a minute and then returning to treating them just like a regular person.


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## fuelingfire (Dec 18, 2016)

Xyantha Reborn said:


> I think for men who equate their sexuality with me larg(er/est) in the relationship, a larger woman could make feel a lack of maculinity.
> 
> As an FFA i find the size of a BHM more masculine than thin men. Not that thin men are emasculated by their size, but something in a BHM makes me feel more femanine in comparison, if that makes sense.
> 
> OP is this in regards to a specific situation? I ask because if th BBW is outspoken for example, it could be the way she acts vs her size. Or maybe he is embarassed in a given situation but not at home? Way too many undefined variables, and the question is quite general.



I think that view is at least somewhat common outside of FFAs. A lot of sitcoms have had fat male leads (probably stand up comedians, whose appearance doesnt seem to matter as much as normal actors), with a thin wife that looks like a model.
When I did play American football in junior high and high school, I hated doing drills with the big guys. Even if they were not muscular, they hit hard and were very hard to stop.


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## landshark (Dec 18, 2016)

fuelingfire said:


> I view a fat woman as being a sign of hyper-femininity based solely upon looks. Though their personality and attitude maybe masculine. I would say I get more of a rush from flirting with a larger woman, due to being more nervous. I could say that I see a ssbbws size as being intimidating, but that still comes down to looks and rarity. *Are you saying just based just on looks you see them as more masculine?* As we have a lot of similar view and experience, I often wonder where we differ.



No, not at all. I'm saying I don't associate masculinity or femininity directly with size. I've met masculine females of all shapes in sizes: both in their appearance and their demeanor. The same can be said for super feminine women: they come in all shapes and sizes. I don't necessarily think bigger women are more feminine just because they're bigger.


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## FatBarbieDoll (Dec 22, 2016)

happily_married said:


> I'm so with you on this! I love being fit and partnered with a woman of my wife's shape and size. It's an insanely beautiful combination. My wife, while not happy with her own body, does really seem to love mine.
> 
> To Tad'a point about people being ragged on, I have indeed experienced it. I've seen a lot of people make assumptions about me due to my preferences but it doesn't really bother me. I've also experienced people show a lot of support and open mindedness; an ability to acknowledge that everyone is different and likes different things. There's no need to be insecure about it. Like what you like, pursue it, and be happy!




I've noticed that a lot of folks believe it to be "hypocritical" of a fat woman to have a preference for a fit man. They seem to, in my view, confuse preference with entitlement. Just because a fat woman prefers fit partners, that does not mean she believes she is owed one and fat men are, therefore, ugly.


You can have a preference for a certain body type but that does not mean that others are yucky. Sheesh.

There is a super large woman by the name of Dankii Doll who supposedly has a fit boyfriend named Andrew. I say "supposedly" because I cannot verify if he really is her man, since I don't know her. She has been accused of paying this dude to pretend to be her mate but that does not surprise me due to the fatphobic society in which we live. Many people cannot wrap their minds around even the possibility that a fit person would find a fat person to be appealing physically, hence the accusations. They think there is something "wrong" with a guy like Andrew or he is such a kind person that he has looked past her appearance and loves her for who she is.

I can kinda understand the skepticism because such a body combination is not commonly seen in real life. There could be a lot more fit dudebros who are attracted to fat bodies than we realize but they cannot or will not admit it due to social stigma and the high status they hold in the eyes of the world. I can't say for certain. Sometimes I think maybe a fit body and fat body combo are possible but another part of me wonders if guys like you are rare and an exception to the rule, since most things in life aren't absolute.


Dankii once made a video about how she prefers fit men. She didn't say she is entitled to date a fit man and that, therefore, fat men are ugly. She simply has a preference like everyone else. She claimed that she tried dating fat men but it just wasn't for her. So what? 

Boy, did she get raked through the coals in the comments section!

I can all but 100% guarantee you that, if Dankii were thin and made the exact same video, she'd get little to no backlash.


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## fuelingfire (Jan 1, 2017)

FatBarbieDoll said:


> I've noticed that a lot of folks believe it to be "hypocritical" of a fat woman to have a preference for a fit man. They seem to, in my view, confuse preference with entitlement. Just because a fat woman prefers fit partners, that does not mean she believes she is owed one and fat men are, therefore, ugly.
> 
> 
> You can have a preference for a certain body type but that does not mean that others are yucky. Sheesh.
> ...



I agree with what you wrote.

I suspect that the fat partner with a fit partner combination is rare. A lot of people have asked if its weird that I exercise and the girls I date (usually) dont. Most couples dont do everything together. I think the rareness where some of the, um disbelief or shock comes from. Though I talk to other guys in the weight room, I dont ask about preferences in women. And most of them, I have no idea what their partner looks like. 

A few years ago Dankii was very active on youtube. She pretty much gave up on youtube due to the amount of hate that she was getting in the comments. Her boyfriend was in a lot of videos with her. I severely doubt he was being paid as an actor. It would be silly to really believe there isnt a single muscular guy who is into fat women. What would she really gain from paying a guy to be her boyfriend in the videos? Her boyfriend was super ripped, as I recall. Guys with a body like that are probably less than 1 % of the male population. He had to be training 5 days a week and on a very restrictive diet. It is very difficult to maintain that much muscle without gaining fat.

She did get an awful backlash, but she still probably would have received hate for saying she preferred a thin partner as well. Just not as much. She had a lot of videos on size acceptance and FAs, all of those videos had a like/dislike ratio with greater than 10% dislike. Which is really sad. People should not hear a self-acceptance message, and jump to glorifying obesity.


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## choudhury (Jan 5, 2017)

Interesting discussion here. I agree that the "very fit/SSBBW" combination is hard to come by, probably for two reasons: one, people that are very into an active lifestyle are more apt to be drawn to partners with similar interests, and while there are highly active and fit SSBBWs, let's face it, large amounts of fat tend not to correlate with huge amounts of strenuous exercise. Second, people that are very fit frequently - not always - have a sort of militant, almost "moral" view of fitness, as in, it's disgusting and/or shameful not to be fit. Such folks are obviously not FA material most of the time. 

There is probably a much stronger correlation between large men being with large women. Again, I can think of at least two reasons. One is that fat people, while not necessarily FAs themselves, feel more comfortable (if not more sexually fulfilled) with a partner like themselves. The other is that spending lots of time with an overweight partner is apt to put some weight on your frame, especially if you like their shape.

As for the OP, I have a lot of trouble imagining that guys avoid fat women because they associate size with dominance. The fact is, FAdom is a minority preference, and in a society where physical 'health' has come to take on moral significance, for strange and very complicated reasons, and where health and fat are taken to be direct opposites, a majority of men are going to see fat as undesirable. Just that simple.

On the flip side, I did date a girl once who got off on men with very skinny waists and loved to put her hands over my hipbones to feel how slim I was. 20 year later, I'm still not exactly overweight, but it wouldn't work nearly as well for her, ha ha.


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## fuelingfire (Jan 6, 2017)

choudhury said:


> The fact is, FAdom is a minority preference, and in a society where physical 'health' has come to take on moral significance, for strange and very complicated reasons, and where health and fat are taken to be direct opposites, a majority of men are going to see fat as undesirable. Just that simple.



I would replace the word "health" with the word "size." I think most people who want to focus on their health, actually are referring to or focusing on weight loss. They don't think about reducing blood pressure by eating more fruits and veggies, avoiding high cholesterol foods, exercises frequently, reducing stress.


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## choudhury (Jan 9, 2017)

fuelingfire said:


> I would replace the word "health" with the word "size." I think most people who want to focus on their health, actually are referring to or focusing on weight loss. They don't think about reducing blood pressure by eating more fruits and veggies, avoiding high cholesterol foods, exercises frequently, reducing stress.



Oh, there is a ton of hypocrisy around 'health' for sure. Take a guy like me, who, although I eat reasonably healthy, hardly ever exercise. Having a fairly fast metabolism and moderate appetites, I weigh about 188 - slightly overweight at 6-feet tall, but basically I look reasonably trim. The point is that I'm probably 'unhealthier' by most objective measures than an overweight person who exercises. But I'll bet that most people would rate me at 185 lbs and sedentary as 'more attractive' than me at 220 lbs and highly active.

For that matter, how come people who pursue dangerous lifestyles (my favourite example is motorcyclists, who are 34X more likely to die in motor accidents as other motorists) are not considered terribly 'unsexy?' Why are underweight models 'sexy,' given that that is also very unhealthy? If health is the measure, then what gives?

Then we get to other questions, such as why it seems to be generally considered more acceptable to be fat if you're a man, or if you're black, etc.. 

So maybe I should amend my earlier theory. Maybe the real variable is _control_. A woman who keeps herself thin could be thought to be demonstrating self-control and therefore be sexy. Conversely, a woman who keeps herself thin could be thought to be _subordinating her body to the desires of men_ - and therefore manifesting submission to male power. In a patriarchal culture, that would be a mark of desirability. It's probably no coincidence that, as women have become more empowered in other areas of life, the pressure on them to conform to rigid, militaristic body images seems to have increased.

If that's right, then the OP could be onto something, indirectly. It's not the 'thickness' per se that puts guys off, it's what the thickness represents - an inability or refusal to make one's body conform to the 'official' body type.


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## landshark (Jan 9, 2017)

Choudhury, I'd have to give that theory of yours a little more thought. It's an interesting take. 

Something I've experienced and encountered is that a lot of men who don't like fat women claim fat women make it harder for them to get "hot" women. (You can't make this stuff up.) The reasoning is that fat women are rewarded for being fat by men who like fat women or are desperate or whatever, and this sends a signal to other women that it's not worth the effort to stay in shape. This in turn makes it harder for these guys to find a suitable partner who's not fat.

Now obviously there are numerous flaws with this tripe. I'll not deconstruct the whole thing here, but suffice to say it's a symptom of resentment. It's not enough to live and let live. It's not enough to just not pursue a fat woman (because nobody is forcing anyone to do so). Some guys want to fat shame and aggressively antagonize fat women because it's a sport. One that is largely still socially acceptable. I don't see it as being intimidated so much as some guys are just assholes!


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## Tad (Jan 9, 2017)

I've heard that one too (and given up on the conversation immediately after). I'd thought it was just that one guy who was that crazy, but apparently not


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## FatAndProud (Jan 10, 2017)

And this is why I continue to say, "Fuck the patriarchy." I don't care how men feel toward MY body, I don't care how men feel toward the way I carry MYself, I don't care about a man's opinion. Those with a third leg may dominate politics, finances, and S.T.E.M., but you'll not dominate me  not even a feminist, I just think men defining everything about a woman is dumb because men literally can wake up, put a tshirt on and be Mr. GQ.


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## fuelingfire (Jan 10, 2017)

happily_married said:


> Something I've experienced and encountered is that a lot of men who don't like fat women claim fat women make it harder for them to get "hot" women. (You can't make this stuff up.) The reasoning is that fat women are rewarded for being fat by men who like fat women or are desperate or whatever, and this sends a signal to other women that it's not worth the effort to stay in shape. This in turn makes it harder for these guys to find a suitable partner who's not fat.



Start the Sarah Mclachlan music. I had no idea we have been doing so much damage.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jan 10, 2017)

FatAndProud said:


> Those with a third leg may dominate politics, finances, and S.T.E.M., but you'll not dominate me  .



I suspect it's more of a misplaced eleventh finger...


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## FatAndProud (Jan 11, 2017)

Oh? If it's just an accessory finger, why do we pay that much attention to a man? See, all this time I thought it was a third leg, which would give some kind of justifiable reason as to why we should follow the guidance of such a mythical being with a third leg to stand on - he must be stable in mind and spirit because of the tripod, no? Just an accessory finger? Psssssshhhhhhh. I'm over men


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## bigmac (Jan 12, 2017)

happily_married said:


> Choudhury, I'd have to give that theory of yours a little more thought. It's an interesting take.
> 
> Something I've experienced and encountered is that a lot of men who don't like fat women claim fat women make it harder for them to get "hot" women. (You can't make this stuff up.) The reasoning is that fat women are rewarded for being fat by men who like fat women or are desperate or whatever, and this sends a signal to other women that it's not worth the effort to stay in shape. This in turn makes it harder for these guys to find a suitable partner who's not fat.
> 
> Now obviously there are numerous flaws with this tripe. I'll not deconstruct the whole thing here, but suffice to say *it's a symptom of resentment*. It's not enough to live and let live. It's not enough to just not pursue a fat woman (because nobody is forcing anyone to do so). Some guys want to fat shame and aggressively antagonize fat women because it's a sport. One that is largely still socially acceptable. I don't see it as being intimidated so much as some guys are just assholes!



There is indeed a lot of resentment going around these days. This results in a lot of irrational ideas. However, the resentment does have a basis in fact. Like much in today's world the dating and mating scene is becoming increasingly stratified. The gap between the romantically desirable and the romantic outcasts is widening. Many women are choosing to only associate with more desirable men (even if this means they have less than a total commitment). Other women are deciding that they'd rather be single than "settle". The end result is that increasing numbers of men are basically undatable. The resulting frustration breeds resentment.


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## unafraidzeo (Jan 12, 2017)

They don't make me feel uncomfortable. This mostly because I don't see a woman as an size. I like an woman base on her personality more then anything esle


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## agouderia (Jan 12, 2017)

bigmac said:


> Other women are deciding that they'd rather be single than "settle".



This is true - but for other reasons. It's the expression of female independence and finally at least getting closer to equal rights.

For most of history, a woman was defined over her relationship to a man. Having a male partner was a social and economic necessity. It was until way into the 20th century that even in many Western countries a woman couldn't even be a full legal person in her own right - needed consent from male relatives for many things.

All this fortunately has changed. Women now can decide if and who they want as partner. 
Also - statistics are on the side of women. While it is still true that couples have higher and more stable incomes than singles - in turn if you look at the female side, then single women earn more than married in most OECD countries. 

Many men might not like the trend to the single woman - but in essence it's a positive development.


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## landshark (Jan 12, 2017)

bigmac said:


> There is indeed a lot of resentment going around these days. This results in a lot of irrational ideas. However, the resentment does have a basis in fact. Like much in today's world the dating and mating scene is becoming increasingly stratified. The gap between the romantically desirable and the romantic outcasts is widening. Many women are choosing to only associate with more desirable men (even if this means they have less than a total commitment). Other women are deciding that they'd rather be single than "settle". The end result is that increasing numbers of men are basically undatable. The resulting frustration breeds resentment.



Agouderia already responded but I'll follow up with a couple thoughts of my own.

First, I don't exactly consider it a problem that women feel more independent and are trending in a more selective direction with respect to choosing (or not choosing) a male partner. It's ultimately a matter of personal choice and if a woman feels a given choice, be it not settling or expecting a certain salary from a guy, a certain physical preference, etc, is best for her then so be it. 

Secondly, and this ties the trend back to the concept of resentment (that is, resentment of men who date fat women making it harder for men who don't want to date fat women due to us "rewarding" fat women) I don't think guys like this can accurately pin the trend of more independent mindedness in women on us who like fatties. It's not like fat women everywhere somehow benefit from me having an overweight wife. Sure there may be some small message sent (i.e.: "she got a man so maybe I can too!") and indeed I have had other overweight women tell me knowing guys like me are out there is encouraging, but this can be a torment just as much as a benefit. 

The other issue on resentment is the logic is as effed up as a football bat. The argument that me dating (or now being married to) a fat woman makes it harder for guys who don't want to date fat women simply doesn't withstand a logical inspection. By dating a fat woman I have removed myself from the competition pool for the women these other guys want to date. By being married to an overweight wife I am no longer "in play" and not gunning for the type of women these guys pursue.

Yes, there is resentment, but it's just scape goating and not tied to any intelligent rationale at all. They're mad at guys like me for dating fat women and marrying one. They're mad at women like my wife for existing and having the audacity to marry a man who lived her. And they're mad at women in general for being more selective these days. 

The problem is with these guys and nowhere else.


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## Tad (Jan 12, 2017)

bigmac said:


> There is indeed a lot of resentment going around these days. This results in a lot of irrational ideas. However, the resentment does have a basis in fact. Like much in today's world the dating and mating scene is becoming increasingly stratified. The gap between the romantically desirable and the romantic outcasts is widening. Many women are choosing to only associate with more desirable men (even if this means they have less than a total commitment). Other women are deciding that they'd rather be single than "settle". The end result is that increasing numbers of men are basically undatable. The resulting frustration breeds resentment.



Not saying I disagree with you, Mac -- but you state this as fact, without any word on what you basing it on. 

Is this observation from your own experience, what you saw around you, reports from family and friends, things you've been seeing in the media, sociological study you saw ... they are all valid sources of information, but may be focused somewhat on a particular area, socio-economic group, cultural group, or whatever, and it would be nice to know that sort of background.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jan 12, 2017)

happily_married said:


> Yes, there is resentment, but it's just scape goating and not tied to any intelligent rationale at all. They're mad at guys like me for dating fat women and marrying one. They're mad at women like my wife for existing and having the audacity to marry a man who lived her. And they're mad at women in general for being more selective these days.



Plus, it's much less ego-threatening to rationalize, however badly, than to admit to yourself that many women are turned off by crybabies who say abysmally stupid things.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jan 12, 2017)

happily_married said:


> Choudhury, I'd have to give that theory of yours a little more thought. It's an interesting take.
> 
> Something I've experienced and encountered is that a lot of men who don't like fat women claim fat women make it harder for them to get "hot" women. (You can't make this stuff up.) The reasoning is that fat women are rewarded for being fat by men who like fat women or are desperate or whatever, and this sends a signal to other women that it's not worth the effort to stay in shape. This in turn makes it harder for these guys to find a suitable partner who's not fat.
> 
> Now obviously there are numerous flaws with this tripe. I'll not deconstruct the whole thing here, but suffice to say it's a symptom of resentment. It's not enough to live and let live. It's not enough to just not pursue a fat woman (because nobody is forcing anyone to do so). Some guys want to fat shame and aggressively antagonize fat women because it's a sport. One that is largely still socially acceptable. I don't see it as being intimidated so much as some guys are just assholes!




This reminds me of another thread here on Dims many moons ago....about how some people view fat as "contagious". Such as sitting to close to fatties might allow some of it to "catch". Crazy people and fat perceptions are not a new thing....and aren't solely owned by men. My own Mom has some of these same ideas...trying to break up a friendship of mine in my teenage years because that person was bigger than myself. Her reasoning? that hanging around with someone bigger than me would lead to me getting bigger. She meant that shit....and I realized long ago that she's not the only person with that type of irrational thinking I have came across in my lifetime.


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## bigmac (Jan 12, 2017)

agouderia said:


> This is true - but for other reasons. It's the expression of female independence and finally at least getting closer to equal rights.
> 
> For most of history, a woman was defined over her relationship to a man. Having a male partner was a social and economic necessity. It was until way into the 20th century that even in many Western countries a woman couldn't even be a full legal person in her own right - needed consent from male relatives for many things.
> 
> ...



Yes, its certainly true that many women have much more economic power. For many men the situation isn't so rosy. The income of highly educated men and women has increased substantially (and more women have joined this club). Less educated women have also made gains although a bit more moderate. Less educated lower skill men however have taken an economic beating.


At the upper end of the socioeconomic spectrum accomplished men are hooking up with accomplished women in relationships that are at least as stable as they've ever been (and the women are much more equal partners in these relationships today). At the bottom of the socioeconomic spectrum relationships have always been tenuous so little has changed there. Its the middle where things get interesting. The post industrial economy has produced lots of new jobs that suit women with mid level skills and education. Unfortunately jobs that suit men with mid level skills and education are ever more rare. Men who fail to find or keep good jobs are not seen as reliable partners (i.e. not marriage material). Indeed women who have decent but not spectacular jobs increasingly see these guys as more of a liability than a help. 

Our present economy is full of single women with enough resources to live a modest life without a man and also full of single men without steady remunerative work. While we can celebrate the increased success of women we overlook the decreasing success of men at our peril. Downwardly mobile people tend to be resentful, spiteful, and ready to scapegoat.


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## bigmac (Jan 12, 2017)

Tad said:


> Not saying I disagree with you, Mac -- but you state this as fact, without any word on what you basing it on.
> 
> Is this observation from your own experience, what you saw around you, reports from family and friends, things you've been seeing in the media, sociological study you saw ... they are all valid sources of information, but may be focused somewhat on a particular area, socio-economic group, cultural group, or whatever, and it would be nice to know that sort of background.



Its long been recognized that the socioeconomic status of men spans greater highs and lower lows (i.e. if plot the status of men vs women the male bell curve is flatter). Increasing economic inequality has increased this. There have been scores of studies that show men are over represented at the highest levels (i.e. CEOs, highest level professionals ...) and also over represented at the lowest levels (i.e. the homeless,inmates ...). The later group have always been seen are not marriage material. What is new is that the fortunes of the men a bit above the bottom have been declining (again well documented over the last 40 years). At the same time more women have entered the labor market and are succeeding (also well documented). These women have multiple options. Since they don't need a man to provide the basics they can live alone (statistics show this is indeed happening). They can participate in non-traditional relationships (there have been some studies that seem to suggest this). They can reject relationships and just have informal sex partners. Or they can hold out in hope of finding a guy capable of holding up his end of a more traditional marriage (studies have shown that while this works for higher socioeconomic women its ever less common for other women).

It shouldn't surprise anyone that the men left behind in this scenario become resentful.

The fat tie in (which is just my opinion) is that it really burns some of these guys when they realize that they can't even get a fat girl.


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## FatAndProud (Jan 14, 2017)

bigmac said:


> Yes, its certainly true that many women have much more economic power. For many men the situation isn't so rosy. The income of highly educated men and women has increased substantially (and more women have joined this club). Less educated women have also made gains although a bit more moderate. Less educated lower skill men however have taken an economic beating.
> 
> 
> At the upper end of the socioeconomic spectrum accomplished men are hooking up with accomplished women in relationships that are at least as stable as they've ever been (and the women are much more equal partners in these relationships today). At the bottom of the socioeconomic spectrum relationships have always been tenuous so little has changed there. Its the middle where things get interesting. The post industrial economy has produced lots of new jobs that suit women with mid level skills and education. Unfortunately jobs that suit men with mid level skills and education are ever more rare. Men who fail to find or keep good jobs are not seen as reliable partners (i.e. not marriage material). Indeed women who have decent but not spectacular jobs increasingly see these guys as more of a liability than a help.
> ...



Ew gross, I actually agree with something bigmac is saying. lol

Let me add a female perspective to this sausage fest -

I believe that it's not just economics and self sustaining, independent women that is allowing such specific mating selection. Sure, independence allows for more choice, but I believe it also allows for thinking outside of finances. For me, I look for more than money in a man because I don't NEED him to provide for me. Would I like a man to be a gentleman and foot the bill? Sure. Do I expect it? No. What I do require from a man, money cannot buy unfortunately. It makes it difficult because I want more than a rich man. I don't need money - I have my own. I don't need a home - I have my own. I don't need a car - I have my own. You get the point. What I do not have, I expect a male partner to provide. It's his job to satisfy my needs, gosh.


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## Forgotten_Futures (Jan 15, 2017)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> This reminds me of another thread here on Dims many moons ago....about how some people view fat as "contagious". Such as sitting to close to fatties might allow some of it to "catch". Crazy people and fat perceptions are not a new thing....and aren't solely owned by men. My own Mom has some of these same ideas...trying to break up a friendship of mine in my teenage years because that person was bigger than myself. Her reasoning? that hanging around with someone bigger than me would lead to me getting bigger. She meant that shit....and I realized long ago that she's not the only person with that type of irrational thinking I have came across in my lifetime.



It's an interesting outlook, because fatness almost _is_ contagious. Just, not in a physical, pathogenic sense. Rather, in a psychological sense.

While there are, of course, those who will never be susceptible to the influence, regularly spending time with larger people can convince a person this is normal and okay, including aspects of food consumption. How far reaching that influence gets also varies, but it will happen.


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## bigmac (Jan 15, 2017)

Yes, if you hang out with extreme sports people you're likely to get more exercise. If you hang out with fat people -- not so much.

More than once I've been chewed out because I parked too far from the entrance at the mall.


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## Mark02 (Jan 16, 2017)

I don't know how to answer for the other slim guys of the world, but for me, no. Thick, skinny, black or white. I like girls that like me. Period.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jan 16, 2017)

Forgotten_Futures said:


> It's an interesting outlook, because fatness almost _is_ contagious. Just, not in a physical, pathogenic sense. Rather, in a psychological sense.
> 
> While there are, of course, those who will never be susceptible to the influence, regularly spending time with larger people can convince a person this is normal and okay, including aspects of food consumption. How far reaching that influence gets also varies, but it will happen.



Part of me can actually agree with this- "influences" are all around us. However, having skinny friends never made me skinny....just envious and somewhat crazy over the number on the scale. 
I think that some of us humans are stronger than our influences....isn't that what Dims is kind of about?  



bigmac said:


> Yes, if you hang out with extreme sports people you're likely to get more exercise. If you hang out with fat people -- not so much.
> 
> More than once I've been chewed out because I parked too far from the entrance at the mall.



Yes this is actually how I perceive it all though...I am what I am basically. Popeye should be a hero to everyone


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## bigmac (Jan 16, 2017)

FatAndProud said:


> Ew gross, I actually agree with something bigmac is saying. lol
> 
> 
> ...
> ...




I seem to be good at alienating large segments to the female population. 


Regarding the later point. I've always found it interesting how many women expect the guys in there lives to "satisfy" their needs -- but how few give more than lip service to satisfying their guys needs (and no just sleeping with the guy isn't enough). I've met far too many women who think all they have to do is show up.


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## FatAndProud (Jan 17, 2017)

bigmac said:


> I seem to be good at alienating large segments to the female population.
> 
> 
> Regarding the later point. I've always found it interesting how many women expect the guys in there lives to "satisfy" their needs -- but how few give more than lip service to satisfying their guys needs (and no just sleeping with the guy isn't enough). I've met far too many women who think all they have to do is show up.



I was joking about a man satisfying my needs. I don't expect a man - or woman - to do for me. I'm pretty independent. I'd rather my complement, ya know? My ying to my yang or my Clyde to my Bonnie, yeah?


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