# African tribe loves large woman



## billyk (Feb 3, 2008)

Does anybody know the name of the African tribe where the men prefer their woman very large? They have beauty contests for these woman as it's a sign of wealth & fertility. It's often shown on the news but I can't remember the name of the tribe & can't find it on the net. billyk


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## biackrlng (Feb 3, 2008)

billyk said:


> Does anybody know the name of the African tribe where the men prefer their woman very large? They have beauty contests for these woman as it's a sign of wealth & fertility. It's often shown on the news but I can't remember the name of the tribe & can't find it on the net. billyk



LEt me know too I am going on a Safari this summer I would love to find the Tribe while I am there Maybe I wont come back :wubu:


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## Zoom (Feb 3, 2008)

The Watushy.


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## billyk (Feb 3, 2008)

Thanks Zoom. bill


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## vcrgrrl (Feb 4, 2008)

biackrlng said:


> LEt me know too I am going on a Safari this summer I would love to find the Tribe while I am there Maybe I wont come back :wubu:



LOL to funny........ Geez a place where I could go and actually be considered a goddess.


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## Jes (Feb 4, 2008)

oh, well done.


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## LalaCity (Feb 4, 2008)

Hmmm..I don't know the tribe of which you speak...I took a course in African civilizations, but the topic of fatness was not really covered -- but I can ask my Prof., maybe he'll know.

I _do_ know that inhabitants of the African continent have the most varied genetic profile of any group of people, if they were categorized by continent, on earth -- that's because humanity evolved on the African continent. So that basically means that you'll find every imaginable body type -- as well as a cultural preference for each type -- from one end of Africa to another. Everything from the tall, lean bodies of the Massai to the short, often quite rounded figures of the so-called "pygmies" (which is really an out-dated name for a number of tribes living in the west African rain forests).

I have read that the Arab "Moors" of Mauritania have a cruel custom of force-feeding young girls to get them up to very heavy weights (I say "cruel" because it's _forced_)...

And I know that in Ghana and neighboring countries women pad their dresses to make their lower halves appear much larger...and among the Ongo, Andamese, Bushmen, and other tribes, "steatopygia" (i.e., having a large buttocks) is a prized beauty trait in women.

Here's a photo of a Bushman woman to illustrate the point (hope this doesn't violate any board rules):


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## IrishBard (Feb 4, 2008)

It is interesting how Cultures who haven't been exposed to western media have interpreted beauty. 

For example, the Matsigenka tribe of south-eastern peru hold plump females as the most physically attractive of people, saying that the thinner ones looked like they had just recovered from a bad case of diarrhoea. But the same tribesmen who had moved to the city prefered the skinnier ones. 

but its the same in similar places of the world. it seems to be our natural, or at least, Tribal instinct to go for plump women because of various associations with fertility.


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## Les Toil (Feb 4, 2008)

Zoom said:


> The Watushy.



LOL!! Best joke I've heard in a while! The best part is that Bill took you seriously!

Watushy.


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## Pat Cleburne (Feb 4, 2008)

explored East Afrika in search of the source of the Nile in the 1850's. Richard Burton became ill with a fever while Speake continued on. In the neighborhood of Malawi he encountered King Rumanika of the Kingdom of Karagawe (sp). Here, in the 1850's the custom was to fatten girls to the point where they could not stand on a diet of milk and cream. Rumanika allowed Speake (whom I imagine was an FA) to measure one of his wives. She could not stand and had to crawl around her home. Speake's measurements are all recorded and you would find them interesting. Some of you could probably project a weight based on his very complete work, which has been published in part in Alan Moorehead's "The White Nile", in Speake's own journals, in Richard Francis Burton's works on Afrika and in several general historys. Check them out. A google search will probably yield some good results.


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## Jay West Coast (Feb 5, 2008)

Um...there's this.

PS: A huge portion of [West] African tribes culturally prefer fat women to thin.


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## mossystate (Feb 5, 2008)

oh lord...here we go again


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## Jay West Coast (Feb 5, 2008)

Where are we going?


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## mossystate (Feb 5, 2008)

The fun place where we wax poetic over force feeding and genital mutilation.


oy


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Feb 5, 2008)

I love force feeding and genital mutilation! <3


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## mossystate (Feb 5, 2008)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> I love force feeding and genital mutilation! <3





Not very poetic..but..you shall receive one half of a silver star.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Feb 5, 2008)

One half is pretty good. And these days, male attention is just great, even if they're cutting up my kitten with coconut shells. :9


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## Fascinita (Feb 5, 2008)

Jay West Coast said:


> Um...there's this.



Very encouraging, indeed!

I quote:

"Efik fattening room is a place where their girls are instructed in domestic life and rest _before they pass to their husband's hands_ and _not just_ to go in and come out with _hanging fat_ (my emphasis)."

Sounds like these women are held in high regard and enjoy only the highest degree of consideration among their people.

See that little gleam in my eye? It's jealousy.


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## billyk (Feb 5, 2008)

Les Toil said:


> LOL!! Best joke I've heard in a while! The best part is that Bill took you seriously!
> 
> Watushy.



you got that right! I was out late the night before!! billyk


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## Arrhythmia (Feb 5, 2008)

Pat Cleburne said:


> explored East Afrika in search of the source of the Nile in the 1850's. *Richard Burton *became ill with a fever while Speake continued on.


Is this the same Richard Burton who translated the Kama Sutra?


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## billyk (Feb 5, 2008)

Google Miss Fat South Africa beauty Pageant. billyk


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## Paul Delacroix (Feb 6, 2008)

LalaCity said:


> I have read that the Arab "Moors" of Mauritania have a cruel custom of force-feeding young girls to get them up to very heavy weights (I say "cruel" because it's _forced_)...
> 
> And I know that in Ghana and neighboring countries women pad their dresses to make their lower halves appear much larger...and among the Ongo, Andamese, Bushmen, and other tribes, "steatopygia" (i.e., having a large buttocks) is a prized beauty trait in women.
> 
> Here's a photo of a Bushman woman to illustrate the point (hope this doesn't violate any board rules):



I won't overgeneralize, but the western obsession with slimness doesn't seem firmly rooted in Africa.


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## ripley (Feb 6, 2008)

I saw a show on TV about a tribe like this. At first I was thinking "Cool! Yay appreciation of fat women!"

Then I watched it and the reality hit home. It isn't that men find fat women to marry. They FORCE the young girls to gain. The one that sticks in my head was a young girl whose grandmother (I think it was) kept her in the hut and made her gain. She did not want to. She didn't even want to marry the man she was getting fat for.

So yeah...it ended up being less about men appreciating a fat form, than men forcing women, often against their will, to alter their bodies to fit an arbitrary ideal. I doubt we'd all think it was so neat-o if men had that power in our society. I for one would be kept in a hut, starved down to a size four, and forced to get big perky fake breasts. Yeah....neat.


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## Fascinita (Feb 7, 2008)

ripley said:


> I doubt we'd all think it was so neat-o if men had that power in our society. I for one would be kept in a hut, starved down to a size four, and forced to get big perky fake breasts. Yeah....neat.



I'm with you on this. I don't think it's neato in the least.


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## love dubh (Feb 8, 2008)

ripley said:


> I saw a show on TV about a tribe like this. At first I was thinking "Cool! Yay appreciation of fat women!"
> 
> Then I watched it and the reality hit home. It isn't that men find fat women to marry. They FORCE the young girls to gain. The one that sticks in my head was a young girl whose grandmother (I think it was) kept her in the hut and made her gain. She did not want to. She didn't even want to marry the man she was getting fat for.
> 
> So yeah...it ended up being less about men appreciating a fat form, than men forcing women, often against their will, to alter their bodies to fit an arbitrary ideal. I doubt we'd all think it was so neat-o if men had that power in our society. I for one would be kept in a hut, starved down to a size four, and forced to get big perky fake breasts. Yeah....neat.



And these women aren't getting fat on treats like Twinkies - it's all very heavy, gruel-like concoctions made of goats milk, cream, and starchy things. A disgusting fattening slurry. The grandmother would beat the girl if she found she hadn't eaten, or was even worse if the girl had thrown up.


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## kropotkin_fan (Feb 8, 2008)

Indeed, I believe this highlights some points I wanted to make, viz. that a society can accept fat over thin and yet still treat women terribly. If anything cultures like this suggest that a preference for thin correlates to better treatment of women.


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## Totmacher (Feb 8, 2008)

I don't mean to belittle any of the issues discussed or offend anybody, but I really don't know a better way to express the frustration watching this thread take its time worn pattern awakes in me. So, here goes:
Why does this thread always degenerate into a discussion of women's rights? Women are oppressed regardless of a society's taste... WE GET IT, ALREADY! That doesn't mean that we can't look on the bright side. How does trying to make _us_ feel guilty about it improve _their_ situations?


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## love dubh (Feb 8, 2008)

Totmacher said:


> That doesn't mean that we can't look on the bright side.



So what's the bright side of this situation? Can you, conversely, see and explain the bright side in a society that badgers women to be thin?


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## Totmacher (Feb 8, 2008)

The bright side of the situation is that not just someone, but the dominant force in a society of someones out there happens to have an ideal of beauty that might somewhat coincide with mine, or yours, or some of our's. The bright side is that this force feeding in little huts in Muaritania is just _one facet_ of this. The bright side is that somewhere out there young girls aspire to be fat, or at least someone aspires it for them, and, perhaps out of context, that can be considered hot. That last one's probably not going to win me any popularity contests, but why lie *shrug*? On some level the thought is erotic, and it at least deserves to be _discussed_ before it drowns under dozens of, " Yeah, I think that's lame too." posts. 

A society which forces women to be thin has, as a bright side, first and foremost the economic stimulus of having half of your population being one demographic: women who are dissatisfied with their body images. Other upsides include the fact that it's a virtual paradise for people with eating disorder fetishes. People who find anorexia in its various forms erotic need only pick up a magazine. I'm sure there's stuff about keeping the healthcare profession in business by living longer and saving gasoline, but the point is someone will find a bright side to anything.


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## mossystate (Feb 8, 2008)

So, women are to just try to get past the issues of force and mutilation, because it rains on someones parade. Are there not a million other ways to discuss the erotic nature of fat? You can think this is all about snark..it isn't. I read about beatings/force..and the genital mutilation of many women..and my genitals and my brain ( they are connected )..pretty much go into shock mode, and unless a person is hot discussing brutality, I do not see the place this kind of thing has in the erotic. There are many people..men and women...who can go to some pretty naughty little places, and they do not get off on the REALITY that is happening, at this moment, to real live human beings. The discussion deserves to have in it, many voices of dissent. This is not a video game or some fun in ones own bedroom...damn. Might be a reason this always comes back to the cursed issue of the rights of women to live on this planet at least as unharmed as...you.


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## ripley (Feb 8, 2008)

Totmacher said:


> I don't mean to belittle any of the issues discussed or offend anybody, but I really don't know a better way to express the frustration watching this thread take its time worn pattern awakes in me. So, here goes:
> Why does this thread always degenerate into a discussion of women's rights? Women are oppressed regardless of a society's taste... WE GET IT, ALREADY! That doesn't mean that we can't look on the bright side. How does trying to make _us_ feel guilty about it improve _their_ situations?



I had no idea that "this thread" had happened before and ended up the same way. If it's a "time worn pattern," maybe that's because it's the _right _pattern.

I wasn't trying to make anyone feel guilty. It's just that I too had the knee-jerk reaction of "Yay, appreciation of fat women!" and it's not about that, once you get past the surface. If you're happy staying on the surface, and can keep a hard-on over it...more power to you.


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## KekeDillard (Feb 9, 2008)

Les Toil said:


> LOL!! Best joke I've heard in a while! The best part is that Bill took you seriously!
> 
> Watushy.


i actually went and googled the name looking for the tribe until i realize the name LOL


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## jackvio (Feb 9, 2008)

One such is the Annang of Nigeria. Here is the abstract of scholarly paper about their fattening practices, and here's a quote:

"During the period of confinement which varies in length from several day to years within different customs and families, [the] mbobo [translates as: "fattening room girl"] is fed much food to fatten her up and her days are spent learning how to please a husband and mother in law and to care for children, to care for a clean house, and to learn cooking skills. She learns rituals, dances, dress and make-up, and herbal remedies for labor pain and to stimulate milk production. She is rubbed own with oil and camwood in order to create glistening skin and a beautiful body. Enhancing her physical beauty is the goal of all the indulgences."


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## Totmacher (Feb 9, 2008)

mossystate said:


> So, women are to just try to get past the issues of force and mutilation, because it rains on someones parade. Are there not a million other ways to discuss the erotic nature of fat? You can think this is all about snark..it isn't. I read about beatings/force..and the genital mutilation of many women..and my genitals and my brain ( they are connected )..pretty much go into shock mode, and unless a person is hot discussing brutality, I do not see the place this kind of thing has in the erotic. There are many people..men and women...who can go to some pretty naughty little places, and they do not get off on the REALITY that is happening, at this moment, to real live human beings. The discussion deserves to have in it, many voices of dissent. This is not a video game or some fun in ones own bedroom...damn. Might be a reason this always comes back to the cursed issue of the rights of women to live on this planet at least as unharmed as...you.



I find it strange that people disuss and write about things that _I_ consider far worse than this and manage to escape unscathed. I doubt my opinions on the subject are unique. The fact is that genital mutillation is _not_ synonymnous with force feeding. That's just _one_ group of people and I think your energy would be better spent somewhere else discussing how to reduce that particular act of brutality - which I do not find attractive, in case you were wondering. 
I think this should be resolved by putting the next incarnation of this thread on the erotic weight gain board. Then there's no negativity allowed so people can express themselves without the theat of overt judgement. 


ripley said:


> I had no idea that "this thread" had happened before and ended up the same way. If it's a "time worn pattern," maybe that's because it's the _right _pattern.
> 
> I wasn't trying to make anyone feel guilty. It's just that I too had the knee-jerk reaction of "Yay, appreciation of fat women!" and it's not about that, once you get past the surface. If you're happy staying on the surface, and can keep a hard-on over it...more power to you.



I don't think it's the right pattern. I think it's a bit reactionary. There are more groups of people on the African continent than you can shake a really big stick at. Just because one of them does something that you don't like doesn't mean that you should summarily discount all of them. There're always going to be horror stories, but that's inherent in having a cultural preference: Can you say with a straight face that no western parent has ever punished his/her child/children for weighing too much? I hope we can dig up a tribe or two that everyone can be happy to hear about, but, if not, thanks for letting me keep my hard-on.


KekeDillard said:


> i actually went and googled the name looking for the tribe until i realize the name LOL



Me too... I didn't find it funny, but I was taken in too. After seeing you step forward, I can admit that now.


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## Laina (Feb 9, 2008)

Totmacher said:


> I don't think it's the right pattern. I think it's a bit reactionary. There are more groups of people on the African continent than you can shake a really big stick at. Just because one of them does something that you don't like doesn't mean that you should summarily discount all of them. There're always going to be horror stories, but that's inherent in having a cultural preference: Can you say with a straight face that no western parent has ever punished his/her child/children for weighing too much? I hope we can dig up a tribe or two that everyone can be happy to hear about, but, if not, thanks for letting me keep my hard-on.



Not to put too fine a point on it: we dislike the western tendency to encourage women to starve themselves, but we should celebrate a culture that physically forces women to become obese? 

We're not talking about happily indulged girls, here. We're talking about women who are reduced to NOTHING but they're physical attributes and "husband pleasing" abilities.

Yeah. It's safe to say I'd react to that.

But I guess as long as you get to keep your hard-on, women's happiness and well being everywhere is merely being sacrificed for the greater good...and really, what woman doesn't look forward to being property?


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## Totmacher (Feb 9, 2008)

Laina said:


> Not to put too fine a point on it: we dislike the western tendency to encourage women to starve themselves, but we should celebrate a culture that physically forces women to become obese?



Well, _we_ don't have to, but I'd appreciate it if those that could were allowed to.


Laina said:


> We're not talking about happily indulged girls, here. We're talking about women who are reduced to NOTHING but they're physical attributes and "husband pleasing" abilities.



Extrapolation and interpretation yours.


Laina said:


> Yeah. It's safe to say I'd react to that.
> 
> But I guess as long as you get to keep your hard-on, women's happiness and well being everywhere is merely being sacrificed for the greater good...and really, what woman doesn't look forward to being property?



You're misreading me, and I think you're also confusing traditions. IIRC the husband-pleasing thing was from the kinder and gentler tradition from the more neutral account of the Annang people of Nigeria. This is a very delicate and inflammatory subject and we have to be careful, in both what we say and how we interpret things, if we hope to make any progress. 
The fact is that if a woman grows obese there's a chance I - and I'm really hoping someone else here as well because I'm starting to feel like everybody thinks I'm an inhuman monster - will find it erotic without regard to the circumstances. I know that may be hard for some people to accept, but it's perfectly normal, it doesn't make me less of a human being, and rubbing my nose in it is not going to change anything. In other words I realize that abuses of basic human rights are occurring in _one particular tradition_. I sympathise with the people involved and hope their lives will improve, but that's no reason to close the door on the whole paradigm! I, personally, don't even believe that's a reason not to find their situation interesting, if not erotic. The fattenning is just a right of passage, one small characteristic of a society that happens to have several, varied misogynist beliefs and traditions. What you're upset about isn't this particular tradition, but a prevailing attitude in a culture you don't agree with and you should take that sentiment where it is appropriate. 
What upsets me is the level of prejudice the negative replyers in this thread and simillar threads are exhibiting. The instant someone mentions Africa and feeding the discussion gets hijacked by people decrying the state of women in Mauritania, a small, unremarkable, country in which possible abusive behavior during a traditional fattenning ceremony is among the least of their problems.


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## mossystate (Feb 9, 2008)

Totmacher said:


> I find it strange that people disuss and write about things that _I_ consider far worse than this and manage to escape unscathed. I doubt my opinions on the subject are unique. The fact is that genital mutillation is _not_ synonymnous with force feeding. That's just _one_ group of people and I think your energy would be better spent somewhere else discussing how to reduce that particular act of brutality - which I do not find attractive, in case you were wondering.
> I think this should be resolved by putting the next incarnation of this thread on the erotic weight gain board. Then there's no negativity allowed so people can express themselves without the theat of overt judgement.




Hmmm..yeah...in no way did I say genital mutilation was synonymous with force feeding. But, now that you bring it up, FORCE does kinda mutilate the human spirit, so, there ya go. I simply read an account of something that is pretty much rooted in negative, and saw mention of other things that these poor girls are put through. As for things you consider far worse..etc..etc..have someone chop the head of your penis off..and get back to me. I don't even understand people who try to make something like this a .." yeah, but what about..??? ".

Take away the genital mutilation and you are still left with......force...ok? Not some game you and a lover might want to dabble in. 

This is NOT an issue of ' erotic weight gain '. You would do well to understand the meaning of force and what it does to a person.

As for moving this to an area so that you can feel


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## Fascinita (Feb 9, 2008)

Whether women are forced or coerced to be thin or fat as cultural ideals is one thing. I think Tot, that perhaps your reference point is one that's closer to an S&M-type, power-exchange scenario, one which plays out in a narrower erotic arena, rather than the everyday economies of living and procreating--which do include erotics, but not to the exclusion of other considerations.

If the practices being offered up here for discussion are anchored in the cultural customs of certain people, and then those practices are held up as ideal and the people who implement them are idealized--in other words, we aren't just saying that we find the fattening of women sexy, but that these particular practices illustrate a supposed more "enlightened" or "natural" way of relating to fat, culturally--then this raises issues of whether it's fair to _idealize_ practices that, in very real terms, affect _real_ women's lives. For me, the answer is clear: you'll never hear me praising a conglomerate of practices that include forced feeding and beatings and cutting into people's genitals.

So while I understand your desire to find expression for your particular erotic preferences, I don't think you can blame any of us who raise an objection to the eroticization of real--not "make believe," not consensual (otherwise there'd be no beatings, right?)--oppression of real people.

When a fantasy is built around the very idea of oppression and power-exchange, I can support your right to play it out consensually as a fantasy with a partner in a mutually agreed-upon manner, but I can't cheer for you as you try to uphold the bloody abuses that someone else endures, _in real life_, as "sexy."

Also, Tot: My wish for you? That in your next life you return as a woman.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Feb 9, 2008)

I guess "this pattern" emerged from women caring about each other....
There really IS more to life than celebrating sex and sexual preferences. 

What if a woman on here posted a link to a story about "Over in the country of (insert whatever country here), the menfolk are often held down, beaten and castrated to please their potential wives. This is a tradition that has gone on for hundreds of years". She didn't post that story because she was horrified that such things happen there but because she got off on the idea of a guy being beaten and mutilated. 
The males come in, protest, say this is wrong to which the women blow off the men with a response of "It's only a fantasy to beat and mutilate men and you asshats should just all stfu and post pics of your cawks because you're all awfully GD lucky we want you". 

Just saying....that's how it seems/feels to me when I read some of the posts...not all but some......

But hey, it's okay to not care about other people- let's just get off.


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## Totmacher (Feb 9, 2008)

mossystate said:


> Hmmm..yeah...in no way did I say genital mutilation was synonymous with force feeding. But, now that you bring it up, FORCE does kinda mutilate the human spirit, so, there ya go. I simply read an account of something that is pretty much rooted in negative, and saw mention of other things that these poor girls are put through. As for things you consider far worse..etc..etc..have someone chop the head of your penis off..and get back to me. I don't even understand people who try to make something like this a .." yeah, but what about..??? ".
> 
> Take away the genital mutilation and you are still left with......force...ok? Not some game you and a lover might want to dabble in.
> 
> ...



In a previous post you used the issue at hand as one half of the-object of two sentences along with genital mutillation. I am sorry for misinterpretting that as a perceived simularity. 

More importantly, I am well acquainted with the ideas, concepts, and realities of force and mutillation. I have seen videos, read articles, had experiences, and read stories (quite a few here) that deal with those themes. I know that these things are real. Now, here comes the hard part: These things do not bother me the way they appear to bother you. It is not out of ignorance.


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## Santaclear (Feb 9, 2008)

You're always going to run into this same argument here, Tot.

While I think that fat women are the greatest thing since sliced bread (much better than, actually - especially aesthetically) it's the imposition of one's will on another, AKA "oppression", that'll always raise hackles around here. And rightfully so, I think.


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## Fascinita (Feb 9, 2008)

Totmacher said:


> These things do not bother me the way they appear to bother you. It is not out of ignorance.



I know this was directed at mossy, but I'll jump in and say that it's _evident_ that those "things" don't bother you as much as they bother some of us. In the end, I suppose it comes down to one's view of the world. Mine is one in which I'll stand up for the right of everyone to enjoy the same considerations and freedoms before one another. Yours appears to be one in which the rightful place of women is one of subordination. From my contact with you on this board, you do come across as someone who places a high erotic value on the forced subjugation of women. Correct me if I'm wrong there. In your last post above, it appears you're extending that to apply _outside of a strictly erotic arena_. So are we really talking about simply erotic weight gain? You left a lot of room for interpretation in your comments, so--again--please correct me if I'm wrong.

That is not an attack, only an assessment. And it is limited, of course, by all the typical factors of this medium. Our online connections are never as true-to-life as we think they are, though they are often more candid.

Despite my assessment, I couldn't say I dislike you. You seem very open and willing to talk about your "darkest places" and I kind of respect that. On the other hand, I hope you can respect that where you have your way of looking at the world, I have another. And where you may have a right to proclaim this thing as sexy, I have just as much right to proclaim it an abuse, in turn. Them's the breaks, I think.

Or should I just shut up and eat a donut?


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## ripley (Feb 9, 2008)

Totmacher said:


> More importantly, I am well acquainted with the ideas, concepts, and realities of force and mutillation. I have seen videos, read articles, had experiences, and read stories (quite a few here) that deal with those themes. I know that these things are real. Now, here comes the hard part: These things do not bother me the way they appear to bother you. It is not out of ignorance.



This might be the saddest, most distressing thing I've read since the "I want to feed her till she dies sitting in her own filth" thread. 

You know what gives feeders a bad name? This. This "I can look horrible things in the face _and they don't bother me_." As long as there is something in there that they find sexually arousing, any inhumanity is just an incidental detail, easily ignored.

As a woman, as a very fat woman, all I can say is this is a very sad and scary thing.


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## mossystate (Feb 9, 2008)

I was just about to ask Totmacher what is it he sees discussed that is personally so much more offensive ( and maybe that's how he can divide things up so neatly...since he is not a woman, he is able to pretty much dismiss things that strike a deep chord with those of us who are women )..but...and I am being very serious...there is something missing...a disconnect that I am glad I do not possess. If that makes me seem like I think I am ' better than '..I am honestly very much fine with that.

I just don't get it...but I do....and saying all this is just way too bloated and clinical in a way..when what you really want to do is scream.


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## Fascinita (Feb 9, 2008)

Totmacher said:


> The fact is that if a woman grows obese there's a chance I - and I'm really hoping someone else here as well because I'm starting to feel like everybody thinks I'm an inhuman monster - will find it erotic without regard to the circumstances.



I think there is something a little monstrous, yes, about stating that you're not bothered by images of real violence on women. Your post is not worded as such--you leave it open to interpretation--but the implication certainly is that you're less than troubled by practices like genital mutilation, for instance.

In other posts you expressed that you hoped conditions would improve for people who endure these abuses. SO I guess I'm confused about what your position is exactly. Are you saying that these images turn you on but only as pornography? Are you saying that you think we should open feeding rooms in Smalltown U.S.A., to help make Cindy Lou Normal ready for marriage? Are we talking reality or fantasy with you?


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## Tina (Feb 9, 2008)

Totmacher said:


> The fact is that if a woman grows obese there's a chance I - and I'm really hoping someone else here as well because I'm starting to feel like everybody thinks I'm an inhuman monster - will find it erotic without regard to the circumstances. I know that may be hard for some people to accept, but it's perfectly normal, it doesn't make me less of a human being, and rubbing my nose in it is not going to change anything. In other words I realize that abuses of basic human rights are occurring in _one particular tradition_. I sympathise with the people involved and hope their lives will improve, but that's no reason to close the door on the whole paradigm! I, personally, don't even believe that's a reason not to find their situation interesting, if not erotic.


I think that perspective matters a lot here. Were it you involved in this, where someone was forcing you to do something you didn't want to do, you would likely feel very differently. 

It's not unreasonable that when you have a number of people in a group being talked about in ways that are disgusting to most of those people in the group that they will not like it. And that goes for either gender. What is more unreasonable is to expect that those who get off on the pain of others should be accepted for it, IMO. We all have our opinions, don't we?


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## Jack Skellington (Feb 9, 2008)

Tina said:


> What is more unreasonable is to expect that those who get off on the pain of others should be accepted for it,



What she said. The amount of woman hate I see here at times never ceases to amaze me.


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## Laina (Feb 9, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I guess "this pattern" emerged from women caring about each other....
> There really IS more to life than celebrating sex and sexual preferences.
> 
> What if a woman on here posted a link to a story about "Over in the country of (insert whatever country here), the menfolk are often held down, beaten and castrated to please their potential wives. This is a tradition that has gone on for hundreds of years". She didn't post that story because she was horrified that such things happen there but because she got off on the idea of a guy being beaten and mutilated.
> ...



Have I told you lately how much I love you? (Posted because I JUST repped you elsewhere. Teh sigh.)


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## Jack Skellington (Feb 9, 2008)

Laina said:


> Have I told you lately how much I love you? (Posted because I JUST repped you elsewhere. Teh sigh.)



I know, I couldn't rep her yet again either.


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## mossystate (Feb 9, 2008)

Jack Skellington said:


> What she said. The amount of woman hate I see here at times never ceases to amaze me.




and, because you do not say this to get brownie points..that it is part of your very fiber.......I thank you, Jack...


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## Laina (Feb 9, 2008)

Totmacher said:


> Extrapolation and interpretation yours.



When you can find me a woman who enjoys being forced out of her natural shape (by means other than puberty--but hell, I even hated puberty) and into a new one as a means of "becoming a woman", maybe I'll change my mind.



> You're misreading me, and I think you're also confusing traditions. IIRC the husband-pleasing thing was from the kinder and gentler tradition from the more neutral account of the Annang people of Nigeria. This is a very delicate and inflammatory subject and we have to be careful, in both what we say and how we interpret things, if we hope to make any progress.
> The fact is that if a woman grows obese there's a chance I - and I'm really hoping someone else here as well because I'm starting to feel like everybody thinks I'm an inhuman monster - will find it erotic without regard to the circumstances. I know that may be hard for some people to accept, but it's perfectly normal, it doesn't make me less of a human being, and rubbing my nose in it is not going to change anything. In other words I realize that abuses of basic human rights are occurring in _one particular tradition_. I sympathise with the people involved and hope their lives will improve, but that's no reason to close the door on the whole paradigm! I, personally, don't even believe that's a reason not to find their situation interesting, if not erotic. The fattenning is just a right of passage, one small characteristic of a society that happens to have several, varied misogynist beliefs and traditions. What you're upset about isn't this particular tradition, but a prevailing attitude in a culture you don't agree with and you should take that sentiment where it is appropriate.
> What upsets me is the level of prejudice the negative replyers in this thread and simillar threads are exhibiting. The instant someone mentions Africa and feeding the discussion gets hijacked by people decrying the state of women in Mauritania, a small, unremarkable, country in which possible abusive behavior during a traditional fattenning ceremony is among the least of their problems.



You're making a lot of assumptions here. What upsets me is ANY culture (including my own) which dictates what women "must" look like to attract a mate. That a woman "must" be fat in another culture--that women are at times force fed in order to become fat--is as disturbing to me as the cultures which idealize anorexic figures as the height of beauty.

What upsets me more is the idea that as long as it gets a man hard, it's acceptable. Whether the woman consents or not, it's acceptable. By that method of thinking, I should have broken both of my legs for the boyfriend who thought women confined to wheelchairs were hot. It wouldn't matter that I wanted use of my legs, after all...he wanted to get off, and your implication seems to be that his desire overrides my own.

Again, you're not talking about a culture that leaves room for attraction to women of any size. You're talking about a series of cultures who (yes, for a variety of reasons) believe that fat is the only ideal. It's not a matter of acceptance. It just happens to be a prejudice that suits your desires.


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## Pat Cleburne (Feb 9, 2008)

Yes it is. He was the James Bond of his time, credited with being the first non-muslim to visit Mecca, a master of languages, subtrefuge and explorer of not only Africa but the carnal arts. He and Speake got into a huge argument over who actually discovered the source of the Nile and Burton used Speake's measurements of Rumanika's wives as a way to discredit him (he was probably jealous). The argument ended with Speake's accidental death or suicide in a hunting accident. Here's a link on Speake. http://www.infomotions.com/etexts/gutenberg/dirs/etext02/disnl10.htm


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## Pat Cleburne (Feb 9, 2008)

with a complete description of Rumanika's wives.....in chapter 8 of the account. Here is a sample .....

"In the afternoon, as I had heard from Musa that the wives of the
king and princes were fattened to such an extent that they could
not stand upright, I paid my respects to Wazezeru, the king's
eldest brother--who, having been born before his father ascended
the throne, did not come in the line of succession--with the hope
of being able to see for myself the truth of the story. There
was no mistake about it. On entering the hut I found the old man
and his chief wife sitting side by side on a bench of earth
strewed over with grass, and partitioned like stalls for sleeping
apartments, whilst in front of them were placed numerous wooden
pots of milk, and hanging from the poles that supported the
beehive-shaped hut, a large collection of bows six feet in
length, whilst below them were tied an even larger collection of
spears, intermixed with a goodly assortment of heavy-headed
assages. I was struck with no small surprise at the way he
received me, as well as with the extraordinary dimensions, yet
pleasing beauty, of the immoderately fat fair one his wife. She
could not rise; and so large were her arms that, between the
joints, the flesh hung down like large, loose-stuffed puddings. 
Then in came their children, all models of the Abyssinian type of
beauty, and as polite in their manners as thorough-bred
gentlemen. They had heard of my picture-books from the king, and
all wished to see them; which they no sooner did, to their
infinite delight, especially when they recognised any of the
animals, then the subject was turned by my inquiring what they
did with so many milk-pots. This was easily explained by
Wazezeru himself, who, pointing to his wife, said, "This is all
the product of those pots: from early youth upwards we keep those
pots to their mouths, as it is the fashion at court to have very
fat wives."

and

.--After a long and amusing conversation with Rumanika in the
morning, I called on one of his sisters-in-law, married to an
elder brother who was born before Dagara ascended the throne. 
She was another of those wonders of obesity, unable to stand
excepting on all fours. I was desirous to obtain a good view of
her, and actually to measure her, and induced her to give me
facilities for doing so, by offering in return to show her a bit
of my naked legs and arms. The bait took as I wished it, and
after getting her to sidle and wriggle into the middle of the
hut, I did as I promised, and then took her dimensions as noted
below.[FN#14] All of these are exact except the height, and I
believe I could have obtained this more accurately if I could
have her laid on the floor. Not knowing what difficulties I
should have to contend with in such a piece of engineering, I
tried to get her height by raising her up. This, after infinite
exertions on the part of us both, was accomplished, when she sank
down again, fainting, for her blood had rushed to her head. 
Meanwhile, the daughter, a lass of sixteen, sat stark-naked
before us, sucking at a milk-pot, on which the father kept her at
work by holding a rod in his hand, for as fattening is the first
duty of fashionable female life, it must be duly enforced by the
rod if necessary. I got up a bit of flirtation with missy, and
induced her to rise and shake hands with me. Her features were
lovely, but her body was as round as a ball.


----------



## Pat Cleburne (Feb 9, 2008)

http://www.infomotions.com/etexts/gutenberg/dirs/etext02/disnl10.htm


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## Chubbling (Feb 9, 2008)

I'm going to (try to) stay out of the politics but here's a video (which inevitably addresses some of the topics brought up... ie. mutilation)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5QypK_0Ofg


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## Santaclear (Feb 10, 2008)

mossystate said:


> and, because you do not say this to get brownie points..that it is part of your very fiber.......I thank you, Jack...



Aw...and I was counting on brownie points from you, Mossy, when I crafted my post. So disappointing.


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## mossystate (Feb 10, 2008)

Santaclear said:


> Aw...and I was counting on brownie points from you, Mossy, when I crafted my post. So disappointing.




Was the " I think " you added to the last line. You blew any brownie..or....3 week old crusty hunk of cake. Keep trying....you never know when I might bestow a little of my magic.


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## Fascinita (Feb 10, 2008)

Santaclear said:


> Aw...and I was counting on brownie points from you, Mossy, when I crafted my post. So disappointing.




Seriously, it's good to see at least a few of the fellows step up with support for women. The pushy-broad feminist in me thanks you, Santa!


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Feb 10, 2008)

Laina said:


> It just happens to be a prejudice that suits your desires.




FTW! \o/


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Feb 10, 2008)

mossystate said:


> Keep trying....you never know when I might bestow a little of my magic.



As long as your "magic" isn't coming out of your nose, then it's all good


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## Observer (Feb 16, 2008)

The land you're talking about is Mauritania, and here is a BBC story on it.

It was once a force-feeding culture, but no more. Now its down to around 10%. I agree, btw. that it is better to get fat iof one's own accord, not the way they did it.


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## LalaCity (Feb 16, 2008)

Perhaps here's a good place to point out that the "women" being force-fed in Mauritania are _6-year-old girls_...


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## swordchick (Feb 16, 2008)

Jack Skellington said:


> What she said. The amount of woman hate I see here at times never ceases to amaze me.



I agree with you and I plan to rep you for this. Thank goodness that there are men like you and Santaclear who do see this and speak out!


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Feb 16, 2008)

swordchick said:


> I agree with you and I plan to rep you for this. *Thank goodness that there are men like you and Santaclear who do see this and speak out!*





I concur and repped her for this


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## Totmacher (Feb 21, 2008)

It's amazing how easy it is to find excuses not to do things you don't want to do, isn't it? Anyway, this has been nagging me so I wanted to tie up a couple loose ends. In case anyone was still wondering I don't find subjugation or torture of women erotic. I don't get off on the pain of others. Anyone who gets that idea is misreading me horribly. It's not because I am a feeder that I'm able to maintain this ambivalence to the human condition. Anyone who thinks that has an ax to grind towards feeders and I believe that's why they're misreading me so badly. I never said that I have anything personal against women or human rights and am disturbed that anyone could think that. Either I really misrepresented myself or someone is making an incredible amount of assumptions. On the other hand, I did get a bit carried away, and for that I'm truly sorry.

All I wanted to say was that I was sick and tired of hearing people re-hash the same old entreatment to consider - and then subscribe to - a viewpoint anyone with half a brain who'd actually _read_ the thread would have already thought of. I am especially sickened by watching this happen out of prejudice without consideration of the facts at hand. I find it offensive for people to talk to me like I've not half a brain and I find it extremely frustrating to have people try to force their opinions on me. 

Unfortunately I got a little too emotionaly involved and said a bunch of things that aren't related to the issue at hand. Most notably, my particular method for seeing the erotic in what I may agree to be, in a wholistic sense, unpleasant: A side effect of dealing with the slings and arrows of my own outrageous fortune has been a healthy resistance to sympathy. That's unrelated and discussing it just caused problems, so I'm sorry. On that subject though, tolerance and advocacy are two disparate entities: Just because you don't let something bother me doesn't mean you like it. I never expected to be understood and never promised I wouldn't be hypocritical at times, but I always hoped for respect. Thank you everyone who's done me that little courtesy.


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## Jes (Feb 21, 2008)

Chubbling said:


> I'm going to (try to) stay out of the politics but here's a video (which inevitably addresses some of the topics brought up... ie. mutilation)
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5QypK_0Ofg



i found this video disturbing. Female circumcision and stories of women being beaten if they don't eat enough are tough. Be forewarned if you click.


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## biackrlng (Feb 21, 2008)

interesting indeed


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Feb 21, 2008)

Totmacher said:


> Unfortunately I got a little too emotionaly involved and said a bunch of things that aren't related to the issue at hand. Most notably, my particular method for seeing the erotic in what I may agree to be, in a wholistic sense, unpleasant:* A side effect of dealing with the slings and arrows of my own outrageous fortune has been a healthy resistance to sympathy. *That's unrelated and discussing it just caused problems, so I'm sorry. On that subject though, tolerance and advocacy are two disparate entities: Just because you don't let something bother me doesn't mean you like it. I never expected to be understood and never promised I wouldn't be hypocritical at times, but I always hoped for respect. Thank you everyone who's done me that little courtesy.



Huh? Do what? :huh:
Please, please. please elaborate on this....because what I'm getting out of it is that since something bad happened to you in your past...or you have had "a hard life", then you don't give a shit about what happens to other people. 
If I am misunderstanding...then my apologies in advance.


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## Totmacher (Feb 22, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Huh? Do what? :huh:
> Please, please. please elaborate on this....because what I'm getting out of it is that since something bad happened to you in your past...or you have had "a hard life", then you don't give a shit about what happens to other people.
> If I am misunderstanding...then my apologies in advance.



That's _not_ what I said. If you haven't figured it out by now either I lack the words to help you understand or you're just trying to bait me. One last try: I care, but it doesn't bother me.


Chubbling said:


> I'm going to (try to) stay out of the politics but here's a video (which inevitably addresses some of the topics brought up... ie. mutilation)
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5QypK_0Ofg



thx for the vid. Here's where they got it from http://www.journeyman.tv/?lid=10225 . The quality is a little better, and the rest of the site is pretty interesting as well.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Feb 23, 2008)

Totmacher said:


> That's _not_ what I said. If you haven't figured it out by now either I lack the words to help you understand or you're just trying to bait me.



I have been on this board long enough to feel confident in saying that it's not really my style to "bait" anyone.....and I understand a lot better than you care to believe.



Totmacher said:


> One last try: I care, but it doesn't bother me.



So how do you care about something that inspires/affects you so little that you can say it doesn't bother you? 

I'm trying to find a parallel here in my own mind .... the things I care about in some way seem to affect me...even when I try to not let them bother me. I'm not an "overly-emotional" person...in fact, I have this little trick that my mind does where I "go numb" when I have had enough/overload. I'm good at turning off people that I don't want to be "bothered" by anymore. 
Are you overloaded? Numb? Really concerned? or just more interested in the aspect that turns you on even though you know that the person you are seeing is suffering? 
I don't care if you are a feeder or whatever floats your boat. The idea of feederism doesn't really "bother" me. None of this is about feederism. I didn't see anyone make a correllation between feederism and the torture of those women. (You are the one that brought feederism into it- maybe I'm naive or just don't understand feederism but I had the impression that it involved willing partners? Those women being discussed don't seem "willing")
It's about a lack of concern for another human being in pain/suffering- and making personal wants/jollies more important. 
YOU started the whole convo by asking why some people here "always do this" - do what? Care? 

This is not an attack- you "came back" and made that post because you wanted to "explain", as if you wanted "understanding". I'm asking for more here if that is to be accomplished......


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## Laina (Feb 23, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I don't care if you are a feeder or whatever floats your boat. The idea of feederism doesn't really "bother" me. None of this is about feederism. I didn't see anyone make a correllation between feederism and the torture of those women. (You are the one that brought feederism into it- maybe I'm naive or just don't understand feederism but I had the impression that it involved willing partners? Those women being discussed don't seem "willing")
> It's about a lack of concern for another human being in pain/suffering- and making personal wants/jollies more important.



Here he gets off on a technicality. It's not always "unwilling" insofar as their cultural norms are different. 

Not better, and certainly not sexy to my mind (I don't get off on the idea of being completely and utterly powerless as a cultural norm), but definitely different. 

These women are probably not entirely unwilling, whether they enjoy their lives or not, because they are overwhelmingly unaware. (Fish don't notice that they're underwater, and these women may very well not know how their cultural norms are oppressing them--c'mon, how often does the average person think about their society that way?)


----------



## Totmacher (Feb 23, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I have been on this board long enough to feel confident in saying that it's not really my style to "bait" anyone.....and I understand a lot better than you care to believe.



Well, that's just confusing. How does the length of your tenure here have any effect on how much you bait people? If you understand so well why do you keep questionning me? Something's not right here... 


Green Eyed Fairy said:


> So how do you care about something that inspires/affects you so little that you can say it doesn't bother you?



How can you ask me _how_ I feel the way I feel? I should ask you the same thing. As a matter of fact, since I can't think of a satisfactory answer, I will. _How_ do you feel the way you feel?


Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I'm trying to find a parallel here in my own mind .... the things I care about in some way seem to affect me...even when I try to not let them bother me. I'm not an "overly-emotional" person...in fact, I have this little trick that my mind does where I "go numb" when I have had enough/overload. I'm good at turning off people that I don't want to be "bothered" by anymore.
> Are you overloaded? Numb? Really concerned? or just more interested in the aspect that turns you on even though you know that the person you are seeing is suffering?



There might not _be_ a parallel. I'm very pleased to see someone finally admit that the erotic and the horrid can coexist. Now I can zoom in on the erotic aspect in peace. I don't want to say that's the sum total of what I do, because I don't think I'm that callous, but that's the basic idea. I'm happy you can turn off people. I don't think I have that talent. 


Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I don't care if you are a feeder or whatever floats your boat. The idea of feederism doesn't really "bother" me. None of this is about feederism. I didn't see anyone make a correllation between feederism and the torture of those women. (You are the one that brought feederism into it- maybe I'm naive or just don't understand feederism but I had the impression that it involved willing partners? Those women being discussed don't seem "willing")
> It's about a lack of concern for another human being in pain/suffering- and making personal wants/jollies more important.



Your apathy is comforting. I brought up the topic of feederism in an omnibus reply. Somebody else had mentioned it, probably saying, "You make feeders look bad," or something simillar. You're doing it again, making assumptions. My, personal, definition of feederism is pretty minimal. It involves overconsumption with the intention of gaining weight and an erotic element. I have a suspicion the, "willing partner" thing is part of the standard disclaimor ie, "I'm not one of _those_ feeders your momma warned you about." 
I'm well aware of the concept of pain and suffering, but I'm also familliar with the concept of futillity. Not allowing yourself to make the most of a tragedy doesn't do anyone any good. It's a futile attempt at expiation for sins you didn't commit. It's gluttony in penance, if you'll forgive the biblical reference. 


Green Eyed Fairy said:


> YOU started the whole convo by asking why some people here "always do this" - do what? Care?




I've explained what it is people are doing that upsets me at least twice over the course of this thread. I'll do it again, in narrative form, for your benefit. 
[RANT]
Basically someone brings up the fact that untold eons ago a link to an article was posted here and in that article there was mention of fattenning, female genital mutillation, and female humans being coerced into participation. Then said bringer-upper will rant about how this is horrible, disgusting, barbaric, etc. and we should all be ashamed of ourselves for even considering discussing it because it is bad. All well and good, people are entitled to their opinion, but what happens next is people jump on the bandwagon and choke the thread with posts of, "Right on, sister! Stick it to 'the man'!", " Yeah, making people fat iz bad!", "They culd get diabeeetus!", "These are _real people suffering!!!_", "Think of the children, oh won't someone please *think of teh children!!!111*",and the like. I find that irritating. I find some of it insulting. We're supposed to be adults and legally capable of making our own decisions based on the available information. No amount of proselytization is going to change that. No amount of repetition will brainwash us all into agreeing. All this reiteration is likely to accomplish is to spam the thread out of existence and/or make people feel guilty for being here.
No other topic, from scatology to the, I-want-to-feed-her-until-she's-immobile-in-her-own-filth thread, elicits this kind of hysterical response. People re-post the same reply to this thread as if one more post about how depraved the practice is will be the straw that broke the camel's back and wiped all sexual inequality of the face of existence. Well, that's not going to happen. If you want to educate people say something educational. If you want to improve living conditions in third world countries there are charities you can donate your time and money to. This particular forum is for the discussion of erotic weight gain, with reasonable allowances for tangents, of course.
[/RANT]


Green Eyed Fairy said:


> This is not an attack- you "came back" and made that post because you wanted to "explain", as if you wanted "understanding". I'm asking for more here if that is to be accomplished......



You're right. Like I said I wanted to tie up loose ends. Try not to unravel anything.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Feb 23, 2008)

Totmacher said:


> Well, that's just confusing. How does the length of your tenure here have any effect on how much you bait people? If you understand so well why do you keep questionning me? Something's not right here...



Ahhhh now I get it- anyone that asks you a question or two about what you post is "baiting" you. Btw, when you said I "baited" you, it was the FIRST time I had asked you a question or quoted you. Stop pretending to be a victim- it's not cute...or accurate. That was pretty much the whole point of my FIRST question to you, you're not a "victim" and you're not excused. 



Totmacher said:


> How can you ask me _how_ I feel the way I feel? I should ask you the same thing. As a matter of fact, since I can't think of a satisfactory answer, I will. _How_ do you feel the way you feel?



Why can't I ask you about how you feel? (I didn't ask you why you "feel like you feel" but to rather explain what you meant- as I think you know already) Hell, didn't you post openly on a forum about how you feel? Didn't you already excuse how you feel in the original post of yours that I quoted? What was that line again? Something about bad things happening to you so you have no sympathy for others. That looked a helluva lot like you trying to "explain how you feel" but then again, it came across to me like a hope for sympathy. I found that ironic when you had already plainly stated you really don't give a shit about the suffering of others- that's kind of "how I feel about you" - I don't really give two cents about what happened to you in your past because that is no excuse for present behavior. Does that answer your question about how I feel? 



Totmacher said:


> There might not _be_ a parallel. I'm very pleased to see someone finally admit that the erotic and the horrid can coexist. Now I can zoom in on the erotic aspect in peace. I don't want to say that's the sum total of what I do, because I don't think I'm that callous, but that's the basic idea. I'm happy you can turn off people. I don't think I have that talent.



You seem to like twisting things to suit your desires...... I never said that I get turned on and can tune out the bad things. I simply said that I "go numb"....that isn't a woman's double talk for being turned on. When a woman tells you she feels nothing, then perhaps you should take it at face value 
Oh, and you can turn people off....you just turned me off big time. 



Totmacher said:


> Your apathy is comforting. I brought up the topic of feederism in an omnibus reply. Somebody else had mentioned it, probably saying, "You make feeders look bad," or something simillar. You're doing it again, making assumptions. My, personal, definition of feederism is pretty minimal. It involves overconsumption with the intention of gaining weight and an erotic element. I have a suspicion the, "willing partner" thing is part of the standard disclaimor ie, "I'm not one of _those_ feeders your momma warned you about."
> I'm well aware of the concept of pain and suffering, but I'm also familliar with the concept of futillity. Not allowing yourself to make the most of a tragedy doesn't do anyone any good. It's a futile attempt at expiation for sins you didn't commit. It's gluttony in penance, if you'll forgive the biblical reference.



Funny, and ironic, to see YOU imply that apathy is a bad thing....

And what did I assume? YOU did make a post about how you feel like a victim or something because some people "don't like feeders" or some such thing. I was simply explaining that what you do to get off doesn't really concern me...what did concern me is that one line where you attempted to excuse yourself for whatever by saying that bad things happened to you once upon a time and so it's okay not to care. Guess what ... lots of people have been "victimized" and none of them get free rides for future bad behaviors. Welcome to reality and adulthood. 








Totmacher said:


> I've explained what it is people are doing that upsets me at least twice over the course of this thread. I'll do it again, in narrative form, for your benefit.
> [RANT]
> Basically someone brings up the fact that untold eons ago a link to an article was posted here and in that article there was mention of fattenning, female genital mutillation, and female humans being coerced into participation. Then said bringer-upper will rant about how this is horrible, disgusting, barbaric, etc. and we should all be ashamed of ourselves for even considering discussing it because it is bad. All well and good, people are entitled to their opinion, but what happens next is people jump on the bandwagon and choke the thread with posts of, "Right on, sister! Stick it to 'the man'!", " Yeah, making people fat iz bad!", "They culd get diabeeetus!", "These are _real people suffering!!!_", "Think of the children, oh won't someone please *think of teh children!!!111*",and the like. I find that irritating. I find some of it insulting. We're supposed to be adults and legally capable of making our own decisions based on the available information. No amount of proselytization is going to change that. No amount of repetition will brainwash us all into agreeing. All this reiteration is likely to accomplish is to spam the thread out of existence and/or make people feel guilty for being here.
> No other topic, from scatology to the, I-want-to-feed-her-until-she's-immobile-in-her-own-filth thread, elicits this kind of hysterical response. People re-post the same reply to this thread as if one more post about how depraved the practice is will be the straw that broke the camel's back and wiped all sexual inequality of the face of existence. Well, that's not going to happen. If you want to educate people say something educational. If you want to improve living conditions in third world countries there are charities you can donate your time and money to. This particular forum is for the discussion of erotic weight gain, with reasonable allowances for tangents, of course.
> [/RANT]



The irony is that you seem to come here to want to talk about your jollies, get a lot of other people backing up your jollies, telling you you're right, etc.....yet you seem angry that other people sometimes agree with each other when it doesn't suit you? 
You really seem to be wrapped up in your own world....with little care or concern for others. Lots of people are this way....and it would have all been "okay" with me until that sentence you wrote to make an excuse for it. 





Totmacher said:


> You're right. Like I said I wanted to tie up loose ends. Try not to unravel anything.



In other words, you want to be able to freely express yourself, say anything you want...and have no opposition...or even one question about what you post on a public forum. What a mature, and realistic, attitude to adopt for yourself. 
You seem to have unraveled yourself a long time ago - no help from me


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## OfftoOtherPlaces (Feb 23, 2008)

*Grabs popcorn and a drink*


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## Totmacher (Feb 24, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Ahhhh now I get it- anyone that asks you a question or two about what you post is "baiting" you. Btw, when you said I "baited" you, it was the FIRST time I had asked you a question or quoted you. Stop pretending to be a victim- it's not cute...or accurate. That was pretty much the whole point of my FIRST question to you, you're not a "victim" and you're not excused.



You are incorrect. I was merely saying it's not hard to construe your repetition of questions already answered as playing dumb, which is known baiting technique. I'm not pretending anything. I assumed you'd been reading the thread. 



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Why can't I ask you about how you feel? (I didn't ask you why you "feel like you feel" but to rather explain what you meant- as I think you know already) Hell, didn't you post openly on a forum about how you feel? Didn't you already excuse how you feel in the original post of yours that I quoted? What was that line again? Something about bad things happening to you so you have no sympathy for others. That looked a helluva lot like you trying to "explain how you feel" but then again, it came across to me like a hope for sympathy. I found that ironic when you had already plainly stated you really don't give a shit about the suffering of others- that's kind of "how I feel about you" - I don't really give two cents about what happened to you in your past because that is no excuse for present behavior. Does that answer your question about how I feel?



Oh, you can ask about how I feel, but that's not what you wrote. You didn't ask _why_ you asked _how_. The last few re-readings don't offer me any other interpretations. I asked you how you felt that and you answered a different question. 

Now that you've explained to me what you were really asking I can answer you. I feel like I'm being unfairly persecuted for not sharing your beliefs and conation. I feel like how I feel and why I feel it is unrelated to the issue at hand. I feel that I should be allowed to discuss things I happen to enjoy even if they make other people uncomfortable without being constantly reminded of that fact. I feel like what I'm writing is being misread so horribly that it would take deliberate malice to consistently interpret it any worse. I feel a lot of things, but mostly I feel that something I wrote has left you so confused, hurt, and angry, that I have some responsibility to set you straight.



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You seem to like twisting things to suit your desires...... I never said that I get turned on and can tune out the bad things. I simply said that I "go numb"....that isn't a woman's double talk for being turned on. When a woman tells you she feels nothing, then perhaps you should take it at face value
> Oh, and you can turn people off....you just turned me off big time.


 
Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you. Of course that would be assuming you desire to make everything I say sound demonic, which I'm not quite ready to do just this moment. I never said nor implied that you go numb to the suffering of others by being turned on. I merely intimated that I am pleased to hear that you believe it is possible for me to be turned on and ignore the distressing components of the situation that turned me on. That's progress. Earlier on I dealt with people who appeared to believe that nothing erotic can coexist with something unpaletable and thus I must be the worst kind of sadist to find the thought, images, and/or accounts of a fattenning tradition erotic. I guess I was a little too subtle in saying that, though crude, saying that I am more interested in the erotic aspect of the situation than the unpleasant aspect is the closest you've come to making an acceptable parallel.

Oh, and I _wish_ I could turn you off  .



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Funny, and ironic, to see YOU imply that apathy is a bad thing....



Actually I meant to imply that you not caring whether I was a feeder or not was a good thing because it meant to me that you recognised that feederism had nothing to do with this facet of the discussion.


Green Eyed Fairy said:


> And what did I assume? YOU did make a post about how you feel like a victim or something because some people "don't like feeders" or some such thing. I was simply explaining that what you do to get off doesn't really concern me...what did concern me is that one line where you attempted to excuse yourself for whatever by saying that bad things happened to you once upon a time and so it's okay not to care. Guess what ... lots of people have been "victimized" and none of them get free rides for future bad behaviors. Welcome to reality and adulthood.



You assumed that I shared your definition of feederism. You assumed that me saying that one of the ways I deal with life sucking is by tuning out meant that I thought having felt bad in the past gave me carte blanche for sociopathy. You assumed that yelling at me about it is going to somehow going to do a lick of good. You assumed that me saying that you recognized the concept of eroticism can exist in the same context as horror meant that I believed you got turned on by horrorible things, or some such nonesense. You assume too much.
I didn't attempt to excuse anything. I was paraphrasing myself. I was trying to summarize in one line how I had tried to explain that my life and the lives that touch it suck as much as anyone else's but one of the ways I deal with it is by tuning out, but it really hadn't helped any. It really doesn't matter why I can find this erotic. What matters is that I do and I should be allowed to.


Green Eyed Fairy said:


> The irony is that you seem to come here to want to talk about your jollies, get a lot of other people backing up your jollies, telling you you're right, etc.....yet you seem angry that other people sometimes agree with each other when it doesn't suit you?
> You really seem to be wrapped up in your own world....with little care or concern for others. Lots of people are this way....and it would have all been "okay" with me until that sentence you wrote to make an excuse for it.



No, I'm upset by the fact that this particular subject draws such a volume of unecessary commentary. Feel free to start a thread about the plight of women in Mauritania, Rural Nigeria, and wherever such traditions can be found, but stop trying to forcefeed me your opinions. Please. You don't see me getting a torch wielding mob together to go spam the funk appreciation thread, do you? 



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> In other words, you want to be able to freely express yourself, say anything you want...and have no opposition...or even one question about what you post on a public forum. What a mature, and realistic, attitude to adopt for yourself.
> You seem to have unraveled yourself a long time ago - no help from me



Are you intoxicated? That's not what I said! All I want is for people to treat this topic with the same courtesty they'd show any other. 

In the vein of maturity I'd like to ask you something. You've made anonymous personal attacks on someone who's opinion you profess to think very little of. You've frustrated him a little and made him wonder if he's perhaps a surrogate for an ex or a father figure. Do you feel better now?


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## mossystate (Feb 24, 2008)

Say Hello to the Angels said:


> *Grabs popcorn and a drink*



* steals it...what???..diet pop?..fuck it *


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## mossystate (Feb 24, 2008)

Hey...Tot...you CAN turn her off...it's called the ignore feature. I am helpful like this....

Anyone knows that the original post was not about ' feederism '..but..abuse...duh..and a d'oh..and, yeah, should have been moved to HP..like...yesterday. 

Tot..consent..force..I bet you know the difference..oh..yes I do.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Feb 24, 2008)

Final Response: You are nothing like my exes or father Tot. Take that to heart, sweets. None of them were as sensitive - or should I say insensitive?- as you seem to be. 
I'm not clear about who I made a "personal attack" against (though your namecalling sure seems like one). Questioning your own words in your post and asking for clarity is not an attack- nor is it baiting. 
Discussing something YOU had brought up in the thread is not spamming it either. If my asking you was "off track" then you first took it off track by coming in to talk about yourself again. 
People don't get to use their past to make excuses for whatever it is they want to do now. That just doesn't fly, period. 

This argument is over because I have made my point- my work here is done 

@ Mossy - I enjoyed the namecalling. It means I hit a nerve :batting:


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## Totmacher (Feb 24, 2008)

Deliberate malice. Definately deliberate malice.


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## OfftoOtherPlaces (Feb 24, 2008)

Totmacher said:


> Deliberate malice. Definately deliberate malice.



It's okay, it's just the internet. Now you should let it go and smile:


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## billyk (Feb 24, 2008)

Geez!!!!! all this because I found a tribe in Africa who appreciates larger woman!! billyk


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## Laina (Feb 24, 2008)

billyk said:


> Geez!!!!! all this because I found a tribe in Africa who appreciates larger woman!! billyk



Actually, I think "all this" is because us uppity women dislike being told that we should be glad that some group of men somewhere is dictating what a woman must look like in order to feel good about herself or have any worth in a society. (Again.)

We hate it when men tell us we have to be thin. Why on earth would we enjoy being told that we HAVE to be fat?


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## Totmacher (Feb 24, 2008)

To be fair he never said anything about tribes that fatten their women, just a tribe that appreciates them.


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## love dubh (Feb 24, 2008)




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## Laina (Feb 24, 2008)

Totmacher said:


> To be fair he never said anything about tribes that fatten their women, just a tribe that appreciates them.



To be fair I didn't say I disliked fattening women, but that I disliked the sentiment that I should praise a culture for dictating the physical form which would define a woman's worth.


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## Laina (Feb 24, 2008)

love dubh said:


>



Is this going to turn into the equivalent of Livejournal's "it can be macro time nao"?

I have awesome failboat macros...yes, yes. I am that much of a geek.


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## love dubh (Feb 24, 2008)

Laina said:


> Is this going to turn into the equivalent of Livejournal's "it can be macro time nao"?
> 
> I have awesome failboat macros...yes, yes. I am that much of a geek.



Oh, you mean 4CHAN's macro time?  Let's see the failboat. I just posted what was an achingly-appropriate comic.


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## Totmacher (Feb 24, 2008)

love dubh said:


>



Is that an invitation? 'Cause if I had the choice to make I think I'd have slightly less humerous priorities. Perhaps you could take one for the team, eh :wubu: ? Randall Munroe is my hero sometimes.


Laina said:


> To be fair I didn't say I disliked fattening women, but that I disliked the sentiment that I should praise a culture for dictating the physical form which would define a woman's worth.



To be pedantic,the phrasing with the tribe as the subject and the women as the object implied the women's passivity in the process... and nobody asked you to praise anything.


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## billyk (Feb 25, 2008)

Laina said:


> Actually, I think "all this" is because us uppity women dislike being told that we should be glad that some group of men somewhere is dictating what a woman must look like in order to feel good about herself or have any worth in a society. (Again.)
> 
> We hate it when men tell us we have to be thin. Why on earth would we enjoy being told that we HAVE to be fat?


So are you saying that you appreciate their point of view?? billyk


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## billyk (Feb 25, 2008)

Totmacher said:


> To be fair he never said anything about tribes that fatten their women, just a tribe that appreciates them.



Thanks Totmacher. billyk


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## Jes (Feb 25, 2008)

billyk said:


> Geez!!!!! all this because I found a tribe in Africa who appreciates larger woman!! billyk


I know, right? You should have stuck to the sites that appreciate foot binding!


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## James (Feb 25, 2008)

Jack Skellington said:


> What she said. The amount of woman hate I see here at times never ceases to amaze me.


 
true that... 

maybe its just because I'm only a vanilla-FA but the mental gymnastics required to follow the moral self-validation is beyond me sometimes..?

bottom line is that you'd hope someone's moral compass and sense of conscience would be able to distiguish mutilation and human rights violation from fantasy.... ug...


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Feb 25, 2008)

James...you GD harpy. Stop baiting and being malicious  :wubu: :bow:


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## Laina (Feb 27, 2008)

billyk said:


> So are you saying that you appreciate their point of view?? billyk



No. Once more, with feeling:

Men should not have an inherent right to dictate female beauty.

A woman should have worth no matter how physically attractive you find her.

Therefore, it doesn't matter if a group of men prefer fat women to thin women in my mind. They are still dictating. There is still a power imbalance. And there is still no room for women to feel beautiful, because as long as there is a single ideal there will be room for flaws to be noted, commented on, obsessed over...and ultimately either "fixed" or "lived with". (Both of which imply that she is not good enough. She needs to be repaired to live up to some man's standard, or some man needs to learn to overlook the fact that one of her eyes is tragically half a centimeter lower than the other.)


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## naselipa11 (Mar 13, 2008)

Excuse my poor English. 

But to this issue - there are some books where you can read about fattening of girls in Mauritania or in the land of Tuaregs, but they are in French (authors: Henry Lhote, Odette du Puigeadeau). 

Unfortunately, I guess the experience of the authors and other travellers with this issue was very limited one - one or two cases. So it is difficult to say basically how the girls really felt, their feelings... It was an another culture. 

Anyway I still wonder why there are not any weightgain stories and force feeding stories from Africa, Orient, harem? Unfortunately I can´t write it by myself...


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## Fascinita (Mar 13, 2008)

naselipa11 said:


> Anyway I still wonder why there are not any weightgain stories and force feeding stories from Africa, Orient, harem? Unfortunately I can´t write it by myself...




Easy. Just get yourself a story set in Detroit, and do a search and substitute "Detroit" for "Katmandu." The references to rusted out cars and closed factories are going to be problematic, but that's where you let your imagination do the walking for you.


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## bdog (Mar 14, 2008)

You are projecting. No one is dictating anything. No one can take away your worth.

Men are men. You're never going to be able to control how they feel about your body. They don't even control how they feel about your body. 

I'm not saying that it's a fair world. I'm saying that it's the world that we've got. If you're waiting for something "out there" to change then you might be facing a lifetime of disappointment. 

Are men defining your worth? Or are you?




Laina said:


> No. Once more, with feeling:
> 
> Men should not have an inherent right to dictate female beauty.
> 
> ...


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## OfftoOtherPlaces (Mar 14, 2008)

bdog said:


> You are projecting. No one is dictating anything. No one can take away your worth.
> 
> Men are men. You're never going to be able to control how they feel about your body. They don't even control how they feel about your body.
> 
> ...



So many men are a hard current to swim against.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 14, 2008)

bdog said:


> You are projecting. No one is dictating anything. No one can take away your worth.
> 
> Men are men. You're never going to be able to control how they feel about your body. They don't even control how they feel about your body.
> 
> ...



What you just said....that's kind of what I got out of her original post....



> Laina said:
> 
> Men should not have an inherent right to dictate female beauty.
> 
> A woman should have worth no matter how physically attractive you find her.



Is it somehow different when you say it? 


:blink:


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## Fascinita (Mar 15, 2008)

bdog said:


> You are projecting. No one is dictating anything. No one can take away your worth.
> 
> Men are men. You're never going to be able to control how they feel about your body. They don't even control how they feel about your body.
> 
> I'm not saying that it's a fair world. I'm saying that it's the world that we've got. If you're waiting for something "out there" to change then you might be facing a lifetime of disappointment.



All these out-of-control men! Should I run for cover? Oooga booga?

Maybe I should just be philosophical and resign myself to an unfair world.

No, nobody ever worked to change the world.


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## OfftoOtherPlaces (Mar 15, 2008)

I believe we won this thread :batting:


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## Laina (Mar 15, 2008)

bdog said:


> You are projecting. No one is dictating anything. No one can take away your worth.



You are misreading. There's a difference. Guilty conscience?



> Men are men. You're never going to be able to control how they feel about your body. They don't even control how they feel about your body.
> 
> I'm not saying that it's a fair world. I'm saying that it's the world that we've got. If you're waiting for something "out there" to change then you might be facing a lifetime of disappointment.



"Men are men" is a cop out. Men being men does not mean that a fat woman should not be allowed a job because a man finds her unattractive. In this case, men being men also does not mean that a woman should only be worth marrying if she is obese.

It's not about my SELF worth, it's about societal value. 



> Are men defining your worth? Or are you?



You certainly aren't, and that's all that matters.


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## Laina (Mar 15, 2008)

Say Hello to the Angels said:


> I believe we won this thread :batting:



Is there winning on the internet? I thought it wasn't over till someone flounced from the thread threatening to never be heard from again.


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## Totmacher (Mar 15, 2008)

If you have to ask that question I guess you'll have to settle for the stalemate of having bored or frustrated away anyone who used to care.


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## bdog (Mar 19, 2008)

Laina said:


> "Men are men" is a cop out. Men being men does not mean that a fat woman should not be allowed a job because a man finds her unattractive. In this case, men being men also does not mean that a woman should only be worth marrying if she is obese.



I think I was misunderstood. Maybe I misunderstood the OP. 

Your original message used the word should.

"You should go to school" implies that you're not at school.

just as...

"A woman should have worth no matter how physically attractive you find her" implies that she doesn't.

That's how I interpreted your statement, anyway, and I was saying that a woman already _does_ have worth regardless of how others judge her appearance. There is no hypothetical nature to my statement. It seems we are more or less in agreement?

With regards to the "men are men" statement:

The way I meant that has nothing to do with behavior. It does not excuse discrimination. I only meant it with regards to perception, and how people have little control over what they find attractive. They do have control over their actions, and are always liable for them.

The fact that you (and others) would assume bad things about the meaning of my statements does indicate a certain degree of projection, perhaps?

projection: To externalize and attribute (an emotion or motive, for example) unconsciously to someone or something else in order to avoid anxiety.

Best Wishes.


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## bdog (Mar 19, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> All these out-of-control men! Should I run for cover? Oooga booga?
> 
> Maybe I should just be philosophical and resign myself to an unfair world.
> 
> No, nobody ever worked to change the world.



1. Promoting change and seeing/accepting things as they are are not exclusive. In fact, it's hard to do the former without the latter.

2. Who said anything about out-of-control men? Just because a person can't make themselves (un)attracted to someone doesn't make them out of control.


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## Fascinita (Mar 20, 2008)

bdog said:


> 1. Promoting change and seeing/accepting things as they are are not exclusive. In fact, it's hard to do the former without the latter.
> 
> 2. Who said anything about out-of-control men? Just because a person can't make themselves (un)attracted to someone doesn't make them out of control.



1. Promoting change and accepting things as they _are_ mutually exclusive.

2. It was my understanding that you did say men lacked control.



bdog said:


> Men are men. You're never going to be able to control how they feel about your body. *They don't even control *how they feel about your body.


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## bdog (Mar 20, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> 1. Promoting change and accepting things as they _are_ mutually exclusive.



In my limited experience it is the acceptance of things that allows me to see them as they really are without my own limited perspective getting in the way. Once I am able to see things as they really are then I can get a better understanding of them, and the situation becomes less polarized. If I am lucky enough to get to this point then I find I am more able to act instead of react, and acting from a non-judgmental, non-polarized place tend to bring greater change.

I'm rarely able to sit in the emotional fire long enough to act instead of react, but that's what I strive for. 

Perhaps there's another way of putting things...

Rejecting things as they are and happiness are mutually exclusive. How can you be at peace when you are at war with reality?


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## chocolate desire (Mar 20, 2008)

Ok see I was going to post that I would go to Africa and make some man happy with my huge body as long as I can have chicken wings and a few eggrolls with my rice oh and it was not to much trouble make my rice pork fried but I see this topic is muchdeeper than that so I will butt out :bow:


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## Jes (Mar 20, 2008)

chocolate desire said:


> Ok see I was going to post that I would go to Africa and make some man happy with my huge body as long as I can have chicken wings and a few eggrolls with my rice oh and it was not to much trouble make my rice pork fried but I see this topic is muchdeeper than that so I will butt out :bow:



pork fried rice. no.
missing clitoris. yes.

It's a bad deal, CDesire! Don't take it! big money! no whammies!


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## naselipa11 (Apr 22, 2008)

There is a clip from Mauritania with feeding young girls with milk on 

Dailymotion www-Piankhy-com Grossir à tout prix (Weight gain), but it is in 

French.

Anyway I guess it could be a good instruction for paysites like BBW pinups. 

Bigcuties or clips4sale to do some sketches in this way: drinking 1/2 

gallon of milk or coca cola with encouraging friends like in this clip from 

Mauritania...

Africa is my land of dreams.


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## love dubh (Apr 22, 2008)

naselipa11 said:


> There is a clip from Mauritania with feeding young girls with milk on
> 
> Dailymotion www-Piankhy-com Grossir à tout prix (Weight gain), but it is in
> 
> ...



You, bunz88, and dan can get together and instruct these lovely ladies. Notebooks out!


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