# What happened to the Story Hotel New Orleans



## atcAlan

I went to read the latest installment and it has been removed.


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## Tad

I've not read it, but by any chance could any of the characters be seen as under 18? 

There is a purge of the library going on, as I understand it, to make sure all stories meet a strict reading of the age policy. I guess some stories were really pushing the boundaries of that, so now the correction.


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## atcAlan

No, the main character in the story was 20 or 21 if I remember right.


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## Blame Picasso

I had a quick scene involving characters skateboarding up to the hotel that could have been construed as under 18 and I need to amend it. I will make the necessary changes asap so it can be returned. Thanks for your interest btw.

Rob


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## Blame Picasso

This is going to take a little longer than I'd hoped. I made the changes on my computer and I am now attempting to repost the entire story with the required formatting. The first chapter, (which posted just fine originally and I have made no changes to), is now four thousand words too long with the formatting in place so I have to chop it up and format each installment. Right now I'm ready to throw my laptop out the window, I will try again later.


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## Wetsobem

Blame Picasso said:


> I had a quick scene involving characters skateboarding up to the hotel that could have been construed as under 18 and I need to amend it.



Is something like that really necessary? Is this to say that if a character well over the age of 18 had children then there could never be a scene with their own child for fear of having the entire story banned? I understand the justification for keeping sexual references to minors out of stories, but being afraid to post a scene with a pair of skateboarding teenagers is just a bit much if that is the direction that this thing is going.


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## Tad

I'm waiting for a clarification of the rules, too....of stories that I'm working on:

- one features a single parent, and her being a parent is important to the story. I could contrive to have the child absent during all story episodes, but it would seem pretty weird I think. 

- one was has a younger sister in a fairly small but important to the plot role (I could bump up all the ages by a year or two, but that would require a lot of re-writing. Although I don't think the story would really be hurt by the change, it would just be time consuming). 

- one has two of the characters having known each other for years since their early teens, and some recollection of those days is key to the plot (not a spec of hanky-panky or even fat in those recollections). I think I'd abandon this one if that is off limits, it would be more effort to re-work it than to just start a totally different story.

- One has an episode where the re-appearance of the protagonist's high-school girlfriend causes some commotion, not least of which is because it was clear that he got in all sorts of trouble with her as a teenager (important as it explains why he has become so straight-edge and cautious). No details are given, but they are implied. Again it would take some substantial re-working to make all of that happen at 18+ (and then it wouldn't explain how he got kicked out of high school, leading to the situation he's in now).

I do have stories where there is no mention or appearance of anyone under 18, of course, but the longer the story, the less likely that is (because a wider number of characters come into play, so there are more apt to be kids, siblings, and so forth). 

I'm not objecting to tighter rules, they are probably for the best in the long haul. But I'd like some clarification on exactly what the new rules are, so I can figure out what I can and can't put in stories destined for here.


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## Blame Picasso

I really enjoy writing and sharing my stories, so I have chosen to shut my mouth and do my best to follow the guidelines. Dimensions has a pretty wide base and I like the fact that I'm developing a bit of a name here as a writer. I've been asked to make changes before, so long as it hasn't affected the story, I've always complied. I am considering posting my stories un-edited in the yahoo group I post my drawings in. Observer has always admonished me when I use 'crude' language and I have noticed my dialogue has been toned down on occasion. 
The most difficult thing for me was figuring out how to format my stories (lol). Observer spoiled me a little bit on that.
I know I have a passing reference to one of my characters having kids in one of my stories, I'm not sure how I'll deal with that obstacle in the future.
When 'New Orleans' was pulled down last week, Risible explained why. It is in reference to a strict new rule regarding children in some of the stories and a complaint had been posted. The immediate action was to pull all stories involving any reference to an underage character. The rule is so new according to Ris, that it hasn't been posted yet. I'm sure the language is being developed as far as what we can and cannot write. It is a tricky issue, so it may take time. In the meantime, I plan to avoid the situation completely. 'The Hotel New Orleans' will be wrapping up soon, I'm not sure what my next project will be (I should probably wrap up 'What Are Friends For?") but I'm planning on sticking with twenty-somethings for awhile.


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## Dwavenhobble

The thing I dont get is why didnt they simply edit the stories or ask people to edit the stories ?

Observer has spoiled me here too editing my stories to fit in with the rules but I cant see where this latest complaint is coming from, I mean we have a no underage gainer rule in force on the stories so why would passing referances to childrens exsistence cause offense, I mean we arent writing in the GTA world here. Passing referances such as kids turned and said "look at the fat girl mommy" add realism.
Seriously this new rules needs to be fully explained because at the moment any mention even such as walking by a kid is getting deleted.


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## Gendo Ikari

This is most bothersome indeed, but I guess we should get an answer soon enough.


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## Blame Picasso

I think the immediate reaction was a little black and white and that's why it's upsetting. That's natural when you have a situation like this. It will all pan out I'm sure. As for why they didn't edit the stories themselves rather than contact the authors, I'm glad they contacted me. I would much rather be asked to change something myself than reread my story and find something removed or altered. I intended on referencing Lori's first time at the hotel rather extensively and I would have been mortified if that part had been removed or changed without my knowledge. This way, I made them clearly about two or three years older than I intended them to be anyway by simply changing a couple of references to scene and their situation (they've skipped their earlier college classes rather than skip a day of school). I am still able to build on that scene.



Dwavenhobble said:


> The thing I dont get is why didnt they simply edit the stories or ask people to edit the stories ?
> 
> Observer has spoiled me here too editing my stories to fit in with the rules but I cant see where this latest complaint is coming from, I mean we have a no underage gainer rule in force on the stories so why would passing referances to childrens exsistence cause offense, I mean we arent writing in the GTA world here. Passing referances such as kids turned and said "look at the fat girl mommy" add realism.
> Seriously this new rules needs to be fully explained because at the moment any mention even such as walking by a kid is getting deleted.


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## Dwavenhobble

Blame Picasso said:


> I think the immediate reaction was a little black and white and that's why it's upsetting. That's natural when you have a situation like this. It will all pan out I'm sure. As for why they didn't edit the stories themselves rather than contact the authors, I'm glad they contacted me. I would much rather be asked to change something myself than reread my story and find something removed or altered. I intended on referencing Lori's first time at the hotel rather extensively and I would have been mortified if that part had been removed or changed without my knowledge. This way, I made them clearly about two or three years older than I intended them to be anyway by simply changing a couple of references to scene and their situation (they've skipped their earlier college classes rather than skip a day of school). I am still able to build on that scene.



Id happily try and edit my stories to make them fit in with the new rules if they hadnt vanished already, heck even a PM explainning why it had gone would be something but its this wall of silence really and rumours running round thats getting me.

A complaint, what about specifically, because if its having any referance to a kid in the story then why ?
was it at a specific author and applied to all or have only specifc authors been affected ?
Are the lost stories gone forever or are they floating round in the forum non realm to be pulled back in once changed ?
Who pulled the stories because Ive got a big feeling Observer wasnt behind the pulls ?


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## Blame Picasso

I wasn't aware your situation was that intense. I'm sorry. I'm sure everything is still around. They had 'New Orleans' in some 'mod-only' area until I fixed the problem, it was then returned to the recent additions forum with all of the comments and even the number of views intact. I would look up Risible and or Observer and tell them.


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## Tad

There was a rather contentious thread in the Lounge, where examples of apparently under age characters in stories were used as evidence that the library, its moderators, and by extension Conrad (owner of the site) tacitly support pedophilia. That is one of those sort of no win situations--either you agree there is a problem, and do something about it (whether or not you think there is really a problem), or else you refuse to agree that there is a problem and come across like you are supporting pedophilia.

Let's NOT re-hash the argument here. It is done. It was decided, at whatever level, that stories with underage characters would all be pulled from public view, and the mods worked together, very quickly so they must have put a lot of time into it, to identify stories and pull them.

What we are awaiting now is clarification on exactly what the new rules are.


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## Vader7476

No, let's rehash the argument, since it wasn't propery had. No writers got a vote or say in the matter, and no readers did either. Only a few people in the lounge, who openly admit they don't read the stories, go to the story forum, or even like what is produced here. Yeah, real fair.


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## Gendo Ikari

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63830
Thread in question.

Reading this, I wonder why they don't just go a step further and ask for the deletion of the WR here and on the site in general, as if it's a relic from the past.


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## Dwavenhobble

sorry but im with Vader this argument is being had here in the proper place with writers aware and present for it because all we can see at the moment is an A-bomb being dropped to destroy an ant hill, heck some of the stories in the weight room have truly underage characters. The story in question too is agreeable containning an underage character.

First question what are we calling underage is it the age of consent, the age of drinking or the generally accepted adult of 21 concept.
The official rules on that thread say it has to also be an underage participating character not any underage person who is mentioned in passing.
If the rules become this it will cause authors to not publish here, simple because we arent living in the world of Grand Theft Auto with no kids, and we all know not to involve young characters as gainners and without the realisim alot of stories wont feel real removing alot of the stories effect. very Brechtian but not good for surposedly erotic fiction.

Just noticed Observer even mentions in the thread underage is relative to where its being written or set so for UK people its 16 and over. Also it does appear they dont want the fiction section, now without that I think the site traffic would drop a lot plus Id say at the moment this is the only bit of the forum and original dimms concept still in tact, as this forum is becoming too sensative and political over any little thing said.


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## Gendo Ikari

Dwavenhobble said:


> sorry but im with Vader this argument is being had here in the proper place with writers aware and present for it because all we can see at the moment is an A-bomb being dropped to destroy an ant hill, heck some of the stories in the weight room have truly underage characters. The story in question too is agreeable containning an underage character.
> 
> First question what are we calling underage is it the age of consent, the age of drinking or the generally accepted adult of 21 concept.
> The official rules on that thread say it has to also be an underage participating character not any underage person who is mentioned in passing.
> If the rules become this it will cause authors to not publish here, simple because we arent living in the world of Grand Theft Auto with no kids, and we all know not to involve young characters as gainners and without the realisim alot of stories wont feel real removing alot of the stories effect. very Brechtian but not good for surposedly erotic fiction.
> 
> Just noticed Observer even mentions in the thread underage is relative to where its being written or set so for UK people its 16 and over. Also it does appear they dont want the fiction section, now without that I think the site traffic would drop a lot plus Id say at the moment this is the only bit of the forum and original dimms concept still in tact, as this forum is becoming too sensative and political over any little thing said.


A friend of mine put this this paradox of having a fetish section on an acceptance site like this: It's like going to a a blind person association and declaring that blind people turn them on.

These liberals don't want any fiction that treat women as objects or are too out there. Well, that cuts the stories by half. 

So, now it seems we can't write about young people. I am 20 years old, in college, and want to cater to my age group and write about people like me. I don't want to write about fucking 40 year old geezers.

It's not strange for college kids to date high school seniors, I know a friend who I graduated with who continued his relationship with his girlfriend after going to college and she started her senior year in high school.


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## Dwavenhobble

Gendo Ikari said:


> A friend of mine put this this paradox of having a fetish section on an acceptance site like this: It's like going to a a blind person association and declaring that blind people turn them on.
> 
> These liberals don't want any fiction that treat women as objects or are too out there. Well, that cuts the stories by half.
> 
> So, now it seems we can't write about young people. I am 20 years old, in college, and want to cater to my age group and write about people like me. I don't want to write about fucking 40 year old geezers.
> 
> It's not strange for college kids to date high school seniors, I know a friend who I graduated with who continued his relationship with his girlfriend after going to college and she started her senior year in high school.


Im 20 aswell in Uni and Im going to say this and people will hate the truth but it has to be said, I realised I was an FA at about 14 and ended up on Pawg (seriously at the time curvage was still fat celebs and not a huge forum, and here and FF were 18 + only so I joined as it was the only place.) 

I left many years ago on very bad terms because the forum had gone political everything said scrutinised so much and adults taking over so what was originally a fetish acceptance forum that allowed kids in, the adults there at the time didnt get this really and started weeding out people there now when your about 15-16 and on about girls etc your age and being called a freak it really doesnt help open the concept of it being an accepted fetish.
(I know the freak comment was now related to the age of the girls but at 15-16 it was at the time stupid for me to constantly be on about 20 something women).

I digress the point is even when I was about 15 i was coming to dimms (no not as a forum member) but I viewed the weight room and stories etc because you can.
So if people are scared about exposing kids to inappropriate stuff and for this child protection thing then if all weight gain stories and going to be removed if underage characters are mentioned the the whole site needs to be sealed off here due to the fact its publicly viewable.

The worst aspect is going to be having to put ages to each character in my stories as the Amber 4. series is based of Molly coddles Amber series and I feel Ive filled in some parts but age just isnt one I can do as thats too much of a major part of the stories and the original writer should be allowed to reveal this or not as they please, the main problem being they are in collage so over 18 but its nice to have some air of mystery in stories.

Now if age visible stories are required I think the whole stories archive on the main page would have to be deleted aswell because most either mention no age or have children referanced in a small part or even some still contain kids 
dont believe me 

"Mother thought it best that Suzie watch her figure. She was twelve, Suzie that is. And a skater. Mother always dressed her in the finest clothes. Like a princess. Suzie was pretty, but very far from understanding about love. Never had she known about love or had even the fleetingest thought about "contact" with the opposite sex. Her mother sheltered her a lot. She was shy. Painfully shy. "

This was taken from "The Devil and Little Suzie"

"Christmas season she topped in at 651 lbs.! She was immobile at only 17 years old"
Taken from "Claire part two"

now I found that in all of 5 minutes of looking so If all the new stories are subjected to this then why not the old ones too ? 

Should this site simply be abolished entirely is another question now at hand too.

seriously Im now worried about this sites future as the original dimms concept seems to have died a death to the PC mob, also can I point out that if the women stories are sexist what are the male weight gain ones ?


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## mossystate

If you are not writing stories where 13...14...15..16...17 year old kids are put in _sexualized situations_...why all the handwringing? Some people are just refusing to get what the issue is...and what it's not. 

Tad, there was no '" apparently " about it. The sexual story contained girls as young as 13...so let's not make like this was something that could be a matter of opinion. The rules were in place long before I said boo about anything.


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## Vader7476

mossystate said:


> If you are not writing stories where 13...14...15..16...17 year old kids are put in _sexualized situations_...why all the handwringing? Some people are just refusing to get what the issue is...and what it's not.
> 
> Tad, there was no '" apparently " about it. The sexual story contained girls as young as 13...so let's not make like this was something that could be a matter of opinion. The rules were in place long before I said boo about anything.



The problem is that stories have now been pulled that even mention anything other than someone 18. To make it clearer, stories set in high school where the characters have been identified as 18, have been pulled, simply because it's high school. Stories have been pulled when anyone who isn't 18 is around. So anything about say a mother is almost impossible to keep on the site or write about anymore unless that daughter is 18 or over, even if she has no relevance to the story. It's one thing to say no underage sexual situations; it's another to say every character has to be over 18. And it's looking more and more like the latter.

The main issue, at the moment, is that we don't know what Conrad is changing the rule to. It's hard for people to write stories if their attempt would be futile. It's also a terrible thing to have classic stories vanish with no warning to even save them and many potentially don't have authors who can repost. 

Yes, the rules were in place, and something slipped through. Originally the story gave no ages at all, and it was assumed then that it was legit as by Dim's rules. So then an underage was posted, and all that was needed was to just edit that out or rework the ages. It's what usually happens on the forum here. Stories are made to fit the rules. It was a non issue that was noticed and in the process of being fixed I believe, and if it wasn't, it could have been. 

And it could be a matter of opinion; the rules did give some leniency for certain situations I believe. Obviously a moot point now as Conrad is supposedly making them very black and white. :bow:


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## Holly-Marie

If you ask me this is all way over the top.

Why do people pretend kids under 18 to not have sex or at least sexual thoughts. Puberty starts at age 12 to 14 for some as early as 8 or 9. I find it very UNNATURAL to pretend those kids never had a sexual thought. Can any one of you honestly say you did not when you where that age?

The media is displaying women as sex objects to a large degree and kids watch those things. In the US its perfectly ok to teach young kids to shoot rifles at man shaped targets. Violence is still thought as a valid response to any thread and not only as the very last resort. But show a bit of skin and you are a criminal.

If we continue down this road soon eating and breathing in public will be prohibited.

The fact is that teens are sexual!!! - if some people like it or not. So it is only natural that a 16 year old, as in the story, will at least have sexual thoughts about weight gain and other things. Besides it was at best implied. Its not as if those stories actually describe sex between children. Personally I would even be ok with that, if both had their puberty and so from the point of nature are sexually mature and if both are consenting.

That sex is something bad, feared or dirty are religious ideas. Jews Christians and Moslems where only small religions among others at their beginnings. Quite a few of the older religions used sex as part of their worship to their gods. So those new religions tried to distinguish themselves from this and made it something dirty and unnatural. Especially the sexuality of women is made to be dirty.

Animal children watch their parents and other have sex all the time. The have sexual "thoughts" and urges as soon as they are sexually mature and so far I don't see that this has caused them harm.

The only thing wrong is if some one who is in one way or another more powerful, forces the other to have sex or if not both are aware what they are doing and what the consequences of that are.

As for influencing children in a bad way. ALL parents shape their children to their ideals. Some are more aware of that then others but its all the same. Some force them to practice music to an extreme (like Mozart or M. Jackson) other push them into sports. Both often rob their children of their childhood.

Exposing children to a religion is influencing them since they are not able to look rationally and unbiased at the teachings. Children trust their parents and if they say it is good than they will believe that for now. Each time they are exposed to an idea their brain changes to accept that idea more so later they will have a hard time dismissing it no matter how wrong it may be. Like some misguided Islamic children ho are conditioned to hate the west.

Lets assume the Jews got things about god (if there is such a thing) right. Then all kids who have been exposed to Christianity or Islam will have a way harder time discarding that and finding the way they should. People like me who are not raised religious look differently at all religions and do not likely join any later on. Just as some one raised religiously from early childhood is not like to abandon it.

Fact is we influence children all the time. Who is to judge what is good or bad for them? Personally I think they have a right to know everything. Be taught everything but in a neutral way. Let them judge not force our judgment on them. In term of religion I would teach all major religions. Their similarities and differences, how each abused its power and let others abuse it, but also how they helped their followers and shaped human society.

Christianity of 300 to 1000 years ago is not very similar from Islam today and both share more than divides them.

I think we should rethink a lot of our priorities and ideals and not criminalize everything. Banning any mentioning of children in erotic stories even if they do not do erotic let alone sexual acts, because some people force them self on children for what ever reason is a too extreme measure.

I'm no American but I fully agree with what Benjamin Franklin is supposed to have said:


> Any society that would give up a little liberty
> to gain a little security
> will deserve neither and lose both.
> 
> Benjamin Franklin


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## Risible

Holly-Marie said:


> If you ask me this is all way over the top.
> 
> Why do people pretend kids under 18 to not have sex or at least sexual thoughts. Puberty starts at age 12 to 14 for some as early as 8 or 9. I find it very UNNATURAL to pretend those kids never had a sexual thought. Can any one of you honestly say you did not when you where that age?
> 
> The media is displaying women as sex objects to a large degree and kids watch those things. In the US its perfectly ok to teach young kids to shoot rifles at man shaped targets. Violence is still thought as a valid response to any thread and not only as the very last resort. But show a bit of skin and you are a criminal.
> 
> If we continue down this road soon eating and breathing in public will be prohibited.
> 
> The fact is that teens are sexual!!! - if some people like it or not. So it is only natural that a 16 year old, as in the story, will at least have sexual thoughts about weight gain and other things. Besides it was at best implied. Its not as if those stories actually describe sex between children. Personally I would even be ok with that, if both had their puberty and so from the point of nature are sexually mature and if both are consenting.
> 
> That sex is something bad, feared or dirty are religious ideas. Jews Christians and Moslems where only small religions among others at their beginnings. Quite a few of the older religions used sex as part of their worship to their gods. So those new religions tried to distinguish themselves from this and made it something dirty and unnatural. Especially the sexuality of women is made to be dirty.
> 
> Animal children watch their parents and other have sex all the time. The have sexual "thoughts" and urges as soon as they are sexually mature and so far I don't see that this has caused them harm.
> 
> The only thing wrong is if some one who is in one way or another more powerful, forces the other to have sex or if not both are aware what they are doing and what the consequences of that are.
> 
> As for influencing children in a bad way. ALL parents shape their children to their ideals. Some are more aware of that then others but its all the same. Some force them to practice music to an extreme (like Mozart or M. Jackson) other push them into sports. Both often rob their children of their childhood.
> 
> Exposing children to a religion is influencing them since they are not able to look rationally and unbiased at the teachings. Children trust their parents and if they say it is good than they will believe that for now. Each time they are exposed to an idea their brain changes to accept that idea more so later they will have a hard time dismissing it no matter how wrong it may be. Like some misguided Islamic children ho are conditioned to hate the west.
> 
> Lets assume the Jews got things about god (if there is such a thing) right. Then all kids who have been exposed to Christianity or Islam will have a way harder time discarding that and finding the way they should. People like me who are not raised religious look differently at all religions and do not likely join any later on. Just as some one raised religiously from early childhood is not like to abandon it.
> 
> Fact is we influence children all the time. Who is to judge what is good or bad for them? Personally I think they have a right to know everything. Be taught everything but in a neutral way. Let them judge not force our judgment on them. In term of religion I would teach all major religions. Their similarities and differences, how each abused its power and let others abuse it, but also how they helped their followers and shaped human society.
> 
> Christianity of 300 to 1000 years ago is not very similar from Islam today and both share more than divides them.
> 
> I think we should rethink a lot of our priorities and ideals and not criminalize everything. Banning any mentioning of children in erotic stories even if they do not do erotic let alone sexual acts, because some people force them self on children for what ever reason is a too extreme measure.
> 
> I'm no American but I fully agree with what Benjamin Franklin is supposed to have said:



I agree with a lot of what you've said here, Holly-Marie. Nevertheless, here's the issue: the age of consent in the US is 18. As you know, you have to be an adult to register on Dimensions - over 18. Dimensions is an adult site; the material and images on this site are adult-oriented. Thus, there's no point in allowing stories that would appeal to children (minors are legally referred to as "children" here in the States). And on a site where weight gain as well as depictions and descriptions of fat are considered erotic, underage characters are sexualized the instant they are described as fat or fat-admiring.

I was a library moderator for a couple years, up until a couple weeks ago when I resigned - just before Observer resigned as library curator (I resigned due to my other moderator commitments here on Dims; moderating the library, what with all the editing, is very time consuming). I keenly felt the disconnect between the fact that Dims is an adult site, yet we allowed children in stories to a limited extent (and, yeah, I complained about it); I'm relieved that the new rules will now exclude underage characters.

It will take a long time, this process of eliminating/editing stories involving minors. I know there are a lot of stories that one can point to and say, well, look, what about _this_ one? Those who are sincere about wanting to help here at Dimensions can report these stories by PM to myself or Observer, or use the "report post" button. Those who want to complain, well, that's okay too, of course. Just know we're trying, here.


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## Vader7476

Risible said:


> I agree with a lot of what you've said here, Holly-Marie. Nevertheless, here's the issue: the age of consent in the US is 18. As you know, you have to be an adult to register on Dimensions - over 18. Dimensions is an adult site; the material and images on this site are adult-oriented. Thus, there's no point in allowing stories that would appeal to children (minors are legally referred to as "children" here in the States). And on a site where weight gain as well as depictions and descriptions of fat are considered erotic, underage characters are sexualized the instant they are described as fat or fat-admiring.
> 
> I was a library moderator for a couple years, up until a couple weeks ago when I resigned - just before Observer resigned as library curator (I resigned due to my other moderator commitments here on Dims; moderating the library, what with all the editing, is very time consuming). I keenly felt the disconnect between the fact that Dims is an adult site, yet we allowed children in stories to a limited extent (and, yeah, I complained about it); I'm relieved that the new rules will now exclude underage characters.
> 
> It will take a long time, this process of eliminating/editing stories involving minors. I know there are a lot of stories that one can point to and say, well, look, what about _this_ one? Those who are sincere about wanting to help here at Dimensions can report these stories by PM to myself or Observer, or use the "report post" button. Those who want to complain, well, that's okay too, of course. Just know we're trying, here.



Conrad just posted that it has to be a main character. Side characters are okay. Most of the stories taken off should then be okay to come back on.

I'd be relieved if anything went at all. This is written work, not real pornography where there's potentially harmful misuse of minors.


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## Dwavenhobble

Points still to be addressed.

Defenition of underage character (are we talking sexually legal, legal to drink, or the generally considered adult level of 21 because if its 21 I'll see you in about 6 months)
also I'll take this chance to post the scientific perfect woman formula
your age /2 +7= the perfect age so in essence 18 year olds here scientifically their perfect woman would be 16.
purging the archives of actual underage stories, theres some underage stuff to the extent of below even 16 on there.
 locking the site in, because you might think its only us 18+ reading the stories but at the moment its open, heck i can read the forums without even logging in so be sure the under 18's are here reading to stories, so i think the site needs to begin with one of those paysite style content warnings (you know to cover the site incase someone decides to throw a fit about no warnings and no under 18 check thing (we know kids avoid them heck I used to but in doing it they basically are admitting not to try and sue for viewing inappropriate content.
contacting effected authors by Pm simple because then their email gets sent a message saying they have a PM
I'll state this now I used to write weight gain fiction before, heck at about 15 I wrote some about a 15 year old girl (I was 15 at the time) i wrote it because i was talking to a 14 year old girl who wanted to gain weight (and I believe has done so alot since) she basically wanted a fantasy story about what could happen to her in the future.
So I accept these forums are 18+ so I can accept the concept of no underage but that does still need defining


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## thatgirl08

Why the fuck would UNDERAGE refer to under 21? Yeah 21 is the drinking age but this forum is about sex, not drinking.

oMgZz im so sad cuz I can't post about fucking 9 year old girls anymore. Dude, I don't even care if you want to write a story about having sex with a nine year old girl but the rules here are that you CAN'T. Suck it up and move on.


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## ShammyBoy

Wow, I just read that thread from the lounge, as they say in Australia WTF mate.


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## Holly-Marie

Risible said:


> As you know, you have to be an adult to register on Dimensions - over 18. Dimensions is an adult site; the material and images on this site are adult-oriented. Thus, there's no point in allowing stories that would appeal to children (minors are legally referred to as "children" here in the States). And on a site where weight gain as well as depictions and descriptions of fat are considered erotic, underage characters are sexualized the instant they are described as fat or fat-admiring.



Ok I have to admit I did not consider "underage characters are sexualized the instant they are described as fat or fat-admiring" and I can not deny this.

However this should be more about minors not being able to view content they should not be able to legally. Lots of little girls run around in skimpy clothes. The whole cheerleader culture is in a way sexualizing minors. Lots of older man fantasy about those girls or what it was like if they were old enough. quite a few of those girls love the male attention they get as cheerleaders and its not just about holding hands. Oh is that sexual already?

No one complains about this so why here? I'm sorry I still think people are over reacting. However I can see why Dims feels compelled to act as well and I can accept their reasons. I just wanted to point out I think the whole issue is way over blown and a typical example of US double moral.
Oh and before you point at me. Europe is not far behind. I'm German and our parties want to introduce laws that are equally over the top. Europe usually follows bad examples of the US just 10 years later but we seldom employ the good things save for music. 

All in all I just hope this all will not destroy a lot of great (written) art and creative spirit. That is what Franklin meant with his words and this danger is quite real.


----------



## Risible

Holly-Marie said:


> ...No one complains about this so why here? I'm sorry I still think people are over reacting. However I can see why Dims feels compelled to act as well and I can accept their reasons. I just wanted to point out I think the whole issue is way over blown and a typical example of US double moral.
> Oh and before you point at me. Europe is not far behind. I'm German and our parties want to introduce laws that are equally over the top. Europe usually follows bad examples of the US just 10 years later but we seldom employ the good things save for music.
> 
> All in all I just hope this all will not destroy a lot of great (written) art and creative spirit. That is what Franklin meant with his words and this danger is quite real.



I'm surprised to hear that about Germany - personally, I always thought Europeans (though, sadly, I've never been to Europe, I gathered this from conversations I've had with European citizens) were more progressive than Americans with respect to sexual mores. I kinda agreed with the POV that America/Americans are "uptight" and "puritanical" about sex. Though, let me hasten to say that with respect to the stories here on Dims - leave the children (again, under age 18) out of it.


----------



## Vader7476

Holly-Marie said:


> Ok I have to admit I did not consider "underage characters are sexualized the instant they are described as fat or fat-admiring" and I can not deny this.
> 
> However this should be more about minors not being able to view content they should not be able to legally. Lots of little girls run around in skimpy clothes. The whole cheerleader culture is in a way sexualizing minors. Lots of older man fantasy about those girls or what it was like if they were old enough. quite a few of those girls love the male attention they get as cheerleaders and its not just about holding hands. Oh is that sexual already?
> 
> No one complains about this so why here? I'm sorry I still think people are over reacting. However I can see why Dims feels compelled to act as well and I can accept their reasons. I just wanted to point out I think the whole issue is way over blown and a typical example of US double moral.
> Oh and before you point at me. Europe is not far behind. I'm German and our parties want to introduce laws that are equally over the top. Europe usually follows bad examples of the US just 10 years later but we seldom employ the good things save for music.
> 
> All in all I just hope this all will not destroy a lot of great (written) art and creative spirit. That is what Franklin meant with his words and this danger is quite real.



I would deny that it instantly makes them sexualized. I'd also argue that even if it does, the fact remains that written works aren't actual children, so the concept is entirely different. It's a private site so what Conrad says, goes, but there's nothing wrong lawfully with the inclusion of children in literature.

People are definitely overreacting. And the more and more rules imposed, aside from making the library smaller and less diverse, hampers writers and readers and ultimately makes for a worse environment here. 

I find it odd that no Mod even entertains that notion, but are all rather staunch supporters of the most strict rules and situations. If this is an adult forum, why are then curses in the stories often editted out? It's nonsensical.


----------



## Vader7476

Risible said:


> I'm surprised to hear that about Germany - personally, I always thought Europeans (though, sadly, I've never been to Europe, I gathered this from conversations I've had with European citizens) were more progressive than Americans with respect to sexual mores. I kinda agreed with the POV that America/Americans are "uptight" and "puritanical" about sex. Though, let me hasten to say that with respect to the stories here on Dims - leave the children (again, under age 18) out of it.



Leaving children out of fiction is uptight. Hahaha. 

And seeing as the rule as that children ARE allowed in the stories here as per Conrad's own admission, most of the stories taken off should be coming back up on the forums. I wish you guys would expedite that process.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

thatgirl08 said:


> Why the fuck would UNDERAGE refer to under 21? Yeah 21 is the drinking age but this forum is about sex, not drinking.
> 
> oMgZz im so sad cuz I can't post about fucking 9 year old girls anymore. Dude, I don't even care if you want to write a story about having sex with a nine year old girl but the rules here are that you CAN'T. Suck it up and move on.


1) Before you decide to act like a Detective Tracey be aware this is an international forum its not US people only so the age of consent aswell as the legal drinking age varies considerable Im sure here
2) i was saying what is underage, obviously no below 16s but the rules say underage the point I brought up was what are we calling underage, as the generally considered age of definative adulthood is 21.

What im calling for is clear see through rules so all the writers here can get on writing and know that waht we write will be published.

If see through rules arent your thing then I suggest you not negatively reply to this in a non negatoive manner.


----------



## thatgirl08

Dwavenhobble said:


> 1) Before you decide to act like a Detective Tracey be aware this is an international forum its not US people only so the age of consent aswell as the legal drinking age varies considerable Im sure here
> 2) i was saying what is underage, obviously no below 16s but the rules say underage the point I brought up was what are we calling underage, as the generally considered age of definative adulthood is 21.
> 
> What im calling for is clear see through rules so all the writers here can get on writing and know that waht we write will be published.
> 
> If see through rules arent your thing then I suggest you not negatively reply to this in a non negatoive manner.



This forum is largely US based. Since the age for the forum is 18 and since underage has been defined by this forum already as being under 18 (in not allowing under 18 to sign up), I'd say it's pretty clear under 18 would be the definition. Also, since when is 21 the general age of adulthood? Legally you become an adult at 18 in the US (and on this forum.) The rules have been modified as previously stated in this thread. Read them. If you have questions, ask a moderator or Conrad instead of spouting off BS on the forum.

For everyone that is pissed off at these rules, go somewhere else. Conrad largely pays and cares for this site out of his pocket and his time.. he has the last say. We should be grateful he has given us this place largely out of his own expense. If you want a place where you can freely post stories about underage children, make your own site or find somewhere else to go.


----------



## Vader7476

thatgirl08 said:


> For everyone that is pissed off at these rules, go somewhere else. Conrad largely pays and cares for this site out of his pocket and his time.. he has the last say. We should be grateful he has given us this place largely out of his own expense. If you want a place where you can freely post stories about underage children, make your own site or find somewhere else to go.




Why does everyone brings this fact up? No one ever will dispute that the site is Conrad's and he can do absolutely anything at all with it. 

Going somewhere else isn't always an option or a good option, and clearly neither is making your own site. 

This is the largest or at least one of the largest places on the internet for the entire fetish of BBW, weight gain, whatever. It's where a lot of writers want to go so that their work is read by the most people and is where readers go because of the mass amount of literature. To simply suggest none of that matters and relocate doesn't factor in some of that. 

The option which is always on the table, which I think you've overlooked is the one many of us are taking: Possibility of change for the better. Now, is Conrad going to change the rule in question? No. It's going to be 18+. However, it seems up until recently there was a lot of confussion about the specifics. I think there still is some of that, since no mods are commenting on the thread here and Conrad hasn't addressed any of my own questions to him, but largely what the hope of us is that the gray areas are defined so that we can at least start writing, and if possible to make those areas lenient(If he hadn't decided) then that's a great avenue of discussion to explore. 

Make sense now?


----------



## thatgirl08

Vader7476 said:


> Why does everyone brings this fact up? No one ever will dispute that the site is Conrad's and he can do absolutely anything at all with it.
> 
> Going somewhere else isn't always an option or a good option, and clearly neither is making your own site.
> 
> This is the largest or at least one of the largest places on the internet for the entire fetish of BBW, weight gain, whatever. It's where a lot of writers want to go so that their work is read by the most people and is where readers go because of the mass amount of literature. To simply suggest none of that matters and relocate doesn't factor in some of that.



None of this changes the fact that Conrad can do absolutely anything he wants with this site.



Vader7476 said:


> The option which is always on the table, which I think you've overlooked is the one many of us are taking: Possibility of change for the better. Now, is Conrad going to change the rule in question? No. It's going to be 18+. However, it seems up until recently there was a lot of confussion about the specifics. I think there still is some of that, since no mods are commenting on the thread here and Conrad hasn't addressed any of my own questions to him, but largely what the hope of us is that the gray areas are defined so that we can at least start writing, and if possible to make those areas lenient(If he hadn't decided) then that's a great avenue of discussion to explore.
> 
> Make sense now?



Look, I'm sure Conrad and the mods will get back to you but frankly, they have a lot of things to do to run the site. I'm sure your PM wasn't the only one Conrad got. This stuff takes time.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

thatgirl08 said:


> This forum is largely US based. Since the age for the forum is 18 and since underage has been defined by this forum already as being under 18 (in not allowing under 18 to sign up), I'd say it's pretty clear under 18 would be the definition. Also, since when is 21 the general age of adulthood? Legally you become an adult at 18 in the US (and on this forum.) The rules have been modified as previously stated in this thread. Read them. If you have questions, ask a moderator or Conrad instead of spouting off BS on the forum.
> 
> For everyone that is pissed off at these rules, go somewhere else. Conrad largely pays and cares for this site out of his pocket and his time.. he has the last say. We should be grateful he has given us this place largely out of his own expense. If you want a place where you can freely post stories about underage children, make your own site or find somewhere else to go.


Under 18's can't post or make memberships on the forum, they can however view the forum (try it dont log in next time you visit and notice you can read everything, the only thing blocked are attached images).
21 = Us legal to buy alcohol
21 key to the door
card shop balloons and cards check they do 16, 18 and 21 in cards then other than that its mostly 30,40,50 etc. Never wondered why they do those 21 cards ?
I've been looking for the new rules but all i find is the "no underage characters, characters in stories should be suitable mature for the situations"
It is not see through and as has been said previously in the lounge thread by Observer in the UK the age of consent for sexual activity is 16 so are we suddely meant to ignore this fact and pretend everyone is a complete amateur and virgin till they are 18 because thats not the world we live in. I can tell you as a fact under 18s view dimms and the forums every day because the site requires no membership to read the stories or even view the old pictures section.
So every writer who had stuff pulled should all constantly message the mods to find out whats happening, id say making a single place on the forums for the infromation to be spread out and reach those affected would be better.

what Im asking for is clear clarification of the new rules as alot of the stuff pulled had referances to people waling past children etc, so your saying if we walk past children in real life is pedophillia ?
No thats stupid right, so why would it be any different in a story ?

Whats being objected too here is the lack of notification to people of their stories being pulled and lack of communication, you might say go somewhere else in future, the problem with this is less stories = less erotic story hunters
less erotic story hunters = less people for the adds to effect. 
so less writers here + less readers here = less revenuse from the adds. 
So you might think its fair enough but without a community any site is nothing.


----------



## thatgirl08

Dwavenhobble said:


> Under 18's can't post or make memberships on the forum, then can however view the forum (try it dont log in next time you visit and notice you can read everything, the only thing blocked are attached images).
> 21 = Us legal to buy alcohol
> 21 key to the door
> card shop balloons and cards check they do 16, 18 and 21 in cards then other than that its mostly 30,40,50 etc. Never wondered why they do those 21 cards ?
> I've been looking for the new rules but all i find is the "no underage characters, characters in stories should be suitable mature for the situations"
> It is not see through and as has been said previously in the lounge thread by Observer in the UK the age of consent for sexual activity is 16 so are we suddely meant to ignore this fact and pretend everyone is a complete amateur and virgin till they are 18 because thats not the world we live in. I can tell you as a fact under 18s view dimms and the forums every day because the site requires no membership to read the stories or even view the old pictures section.
> So every writer who had stuff pulled should all constantly message the mods to find out whats happening, id say making a single place on the forums for the infromation to be spread out and reach those affected would be better.
> 
> what Im asking for is clear clarification of the new rules as alot of the stuff pulled had referances to people waling past children etc, so your saying if we walk past children in real life is pedophillia ?
> No thats stupid right, so why would it be any different in a story ?
> 
> Whats being objected too here is the lack of notification to people of their stories being pulled and lack of communication, you might say go somewhere else in future, the problem with this is less stories = less erotic story hunters
> less erotic story hunters = less people for the adds to effect.
> so less writers here + less readers here = less revenuse from the adds.
> So you might think its fair enough but without a community any site is nothing.



Of course under 18's can view the forum as the site is public. However, Conrad and Dimensions isn't SUPPORTING that. Under 21's drink alcohol all the time.. that doesn't mean the US & alcohol manufacturers are supporting that. I realize that in the US you need to be 21 to buy alcohol, however this site is not directed at or related to alcohol consumption or anything alcohol related. They make cards for 21's because of the alcohol consumption. 21 is not the KEY age to anything except alcohol. 18 is when you legally become an adult and responsible for yourself so saying under 21 is underage makes no sense. To purchase, view, distribute or act in porn you need to be 18. This is an erotic forum. Let's make the connection. 

As I've previously stated, Conrad and the mods are probably having a hell of a time crawling through all the stories to delete or edit those that don't fit in with the new rule. Reality is that many stories were not even close to being appropriate and those are being dealt with right now. Also, how many people are bitching about this issue or sending Conrad or the mods PMs? Plenty. I'm sure that they will answer all questions and make the rules more clear when they have time. 

Also, as far as "walking past a child" why would this need to be included in any story, let alone one with sexual content? It's pretty easy to leave out kids. I don't really see the issue. All these gray area hypotheticals are really just people trying to bend the rules. You could easily write a story about a 19 year old girl as a freshmen in college rather than write about an 17 year old girl in high school. It's not hard.

To my knowledge, there are very few and possibly no ads posted in the story section of this forum. Also, although the ads I'm sure do provide some revenue I highly doubt it's the majority. Not to mention, if well established members of this forum felt that Dims supported pedophilia I'm pretty sure many people would remove their Clubhouse memberships/donations. You have to realize that this is community isn't JUST stories or JUST the forum or JUST the pictures.. it's a culmination. I understand you are all very concerned because you are largely interested in the story section but you have to realize that there are members and supporters of this site who have absolutely nothing to do with this part of the forum. They have just as much of a right as you all do to express their concerns.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

thatgirl08 said:


> Also, as far as "walking past a child" why would this need to be included in any story, let alone one with sexual content? It's pretty easy to leave out kids. I don't really see the issue. All these gray area hypotheticals are really just people trying to bend the rules. You could easily write a story about a 19 year old girl as a freshmen in college rather than write about an 18 year old girl in high school. It's not hard.


Realism, some writers here try to add realism hence the characters often pass a vareity of people in town.
Some authors have said they planned to do stories where the gainer was also a mother so theres a problem again.
Further authors use it the a humiliation style in stories as "Kids tell it like it is"

yes its possible to leave out but writing weight gain stories as though were in the world of GTA would take aspects from them removing some realism.

You failed to answer the full question, though, despite age of consent rules all characters suddenly arent allowed to have been sexually active or even have had sexual desires before 18, your telling me that this wont impact stories as backhistories cant be added in, despite the fact many areas 16 is the age of consent, all writers characters have to be fully abstinent till the age of 18 



thatgirl08 said:


> To my knowledge, there are very few and possibly no ads posted in the story section of this forum. Also, although the ads I'm sure do provide some revenue I highly doubt it's the majority. Not to mention, if well established members of this forum felt that Dims supported pedophilia I'm pretty sure many people would remove their Clubhouse memberships/donations. You have to realize that this is community isn't JUST stories or JUST the forum or JUST the pictures.. it's a culmination. I understand you are all very concerned because you are largely interested in the story section but you have to realize that there are members and supporters of this site who have absolutely nothing to do with this part of the forum. They have just as much of a right as you all do to express their concerns.


Anyone want to go to amazon.com now having looked at the top of the page on here.

Higher site traffic means less ads are needed to generate the same amount of money. If the stories section of the site goes, then whats left ? quite a lot of drama in places and some pictures. Now if i wanted drama id be on bbwchan constantly, and for pictures to be real curvage has a much larger selection of pictures (so has bbwchan but curvage moves quicker and lasts longer)
The main pull of dimms that is its major component is the stories section, its what keeps fappers like me comming here.
Less writers and readers = less revenuse
less revenuse = more adds
more adds= more people annoyed by adds so moving forums.

This cyclse has happened before just look at PAWG that place hasnt moved much in like 2 years and I remember hearing MS begging because he didnt have the money to keep the site running.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

thatgirl08 said:


> Of course under 18's can view the forum as the site is public. However, Conrad and Dimensions isn't SUPPORTING that. Under 21's drink alcohol all the time.. that doesn't mean the US & alcohol manufacturers are supporting that. I realize that in the US you need to be 21 to buy alcohol, however this site is not directed at or related to alcohol consumption or anything alcohol related. They make cards for 21's because of the alcohol consumption. 21 is not the KEY age to anything except alcohol.


ok so explain why the make 21 cards in the UK then because here alcohol is legal at 18 yet they do a good trade in 21 cards badges and other bits yet if its just alcohol they wouldn't.
check wikipedia and you'll see it was once said to be the age at which someone passes as being an adult. 



thatgirl08 said:


> 18 is when you legally become an adult and responsible for yourself so saying under 21 is underage makes no sense. To purchase, view, distribute or act in porn you need to be 18. This is an erotic forum. Let's make the connection.


actually in some areas this can be 21 (check the porn site terms and conditions some say 18 or in some states or areas 21 to view this material) so the porn argument doesn't hold up, especially considering Molly Coddles stories have been on deviant art for a long time now and that site hasnt objected too them as deviant art is not specifically a porn site or adult site and as such the rules are often stricter heck they aren't even 18 + only on deviant art mostly so I dont see why some stories have gone



thatgirl08 said:


> As I've previously stated, Conrad and the mods are probably having a hell of a time crawling through all the stories to delete or edit those that don't fit in with the new rule. Reality is that many stories were not even close to being appropriate and those are being dealt with right now. Also, how many people are bitching about this issue or sending Conrad or the mods PMs?


yes great idea the mods are busy lets all PM and piss them off by having to get them to send PMS to us individually, PMs would have been nice as they took them down or even a forum post, now this thread is going they could simply post here but no word, if the mods dont have time to reply in a forum thread how would you think they'd feel getting probably 70+ PMs each asking where stories are etc


----------



## elroycohen

I'm certainly no mod, but just as a friendly FYI, the section of the guidelines that references excluded content, specifically the age of the main characters has been updated. It happened yesterday sometime. The only official announcement that I saw was made in the private writers’ forum by Conrad himself.

Not sure why it was done in there, since a lot of contributions (and apparently complaints) come from people who don’t have access to that area, but it was. Go ahead and check it out. 

Maybe that info won't end this drawn out debate, but here's to hoping.


----------



## Vader7476

He did it there because I asked him to. I thought it would lead to discussion amongst the writers and be a nice thread for him to give feedback in. Obviously neither purpose has happened. 

It seems to me though, that as long as the main characters are over 18, then it's still okay to have "underage" characters. So I would then assume that a story(I think we have one that's like this) where a mother has two daughters is okay to have if the mother and the 18+ daughter are the main protagonists regardless of the other child in so far as that second child doesn't become a main character.

If that's the case, which it would seem seeing as it's worded like that, most of the stories pulled need no edits and should be put back into the library. Personally, the Alice Saga by Mollycoddles shouldn't have left in the first place and I hope to see that classic come back.


----------



## Vader7476

thatgirl08 said:


> None of this changes the fact that Conrad can do absolutely anything he wants with this site.
> 
> 
> 
> Look, I'm sure Conrad and the mods will get back to you but frankly, they have a lot of things to do to run the site. I'm sure your PM wasn't the only one Conrad got. This stuff takes time.



I said he could do anything he wants with the site...multiple times in fact. That wasn't the point of that first part of the post. 

Oh, Conrad has gotten back to me a couple times quite quickly about a few matters but yeah, not in the vein that we'd all like, I'm sure. I'm not sure how busy he and the mods are, Observer aside from being incredibly indepth and educated with his responses was also extremely efficient and quick with them as well. Hopefully soon business will go back to normal. 




thatgirl08 said:


> You could easily write a story about a 19 year old girl as a freshmen in college rather than write about an 18 year old girl in high school. It's not hard..



Just thought I'd chime in a bit here. Those two ideas, while you've written them simply, aren't the same story. They're entirely different. An 18 year old in High School is the king of the school, is thinking about career options and schools to go to, proms, football games, SAT's, etc. It's going to be localized generally in one place, and less likely to have a diversity of characters in a region. The College Frosh might be anxious and nervous, be out on their own or living with a roommate in a dorm(Which could lead to a lot of animosity), etc. Thinking about it just as one story with one year difference seems at first glance like no big deal, but is such a huge difference in settings and situations that are possible. A college story isn't going to have parents in it that are active for the protagonist as much as parents of a High School student. 

To limit stories to college and up takes away a huge genre of possible stories and ones that are already written. The diversity and possiblities are what keep a story entertaining. The Weight Gain is what brings the readers and writers here, but the stories that get the most reads and are the best received do everything well. The more you put boundaries on the literature, the more boring they can potentially become. 

Plus, everyone's got that one person in High School you'd like to just see some just desserts to. Pun definitely intended.


----------



## thatgirl08

Dwavenhobble said:


> Realism, some writers here try to add realism hence the characters often pass a vareity of people in town.
> Some authors have said they planned to do stories where the gainer was also a mother so theres a problem again.
> Further authors use it the a humiliation style in stories as "Kids tell it like it is"
> 
> yes its possible to leave out but writing weight gain stories as though were in the world of GTA would take aspects from them removing some realism.
> 
> You failed to answer the full question, though, despite age of consent rules all characters suddenly arent allowed to have been sexually active or even have had sexual desires before 18, your telling me that this wont impact stories as backhistories cant be added in, despite the fact many areas 16 is the age of consent, all writers characters have to be fully abstinent till the age of 18
> 
> 
> Anyone want to go to amazon.com now having looked at the top of the page on here.
> 
> Higher site traffic means less ads are needed to generate the same amount of money. If the stories section of the site goes, then whats left ? quite a lot of drama in places and some pictures. Now if i wanted drama id be on bbwchan constantly, and for pictures to be real curvage has a much larger selection of pictures (so has bbwchan but curvage moves quicker and lasts longer)
> The main pull of dimms that is its major component is the stories section, its what keeps fappers like me comming here.
> Less writers and readers = less revenuse
> less revenuse = more adds
> more adds= more people annoyed by adds so moving forums.
> 
> This cyclse has happened before just look at PAWG that place hasnt moved much in like 2 years and I remember hearing MS begging because he didnt have the money to keep the site running.



Yeah, you're right.. it's extremely important we make WG stories realistic.. like weight gain pills, feeding machines & gaining to 3,302 pounds.  COME ON. You're reaching here. You don't NEED kids in erotic stories.. they can be hot without any mention of being under 18.. use your creativity. Yeah, kids are sexual before 18 but that doesn't make it appropriate to include them or sexual descriptions of them in erotic stories. Honestly, I don't really care one way or the other what you fap to.. but since this is the rule, you have to follow it. 

Maybe you don't think this site has any benefit sans the library but clearly MANY people do or the forums wouldn't be so active. It's great you come here to fap, I do too, but I come here for other things as well. It's pretty naive to act as though the library is the only, or even main, pull of Dims.



Dwavenhobble said:


> ok so explain why the make 21 cards in the UK then because here alcohol is legal at 18 yet they do a good trade in 21 cards badges and other bits yet if its just alcohol they wouldn't.
> check wikipedia and you'll see it was once said to be the age at which someone passes as being an adult.
> 
> 
> actually in some areas this can be 21 (check the porn site terms and conditions some say 18 or in some states or areas 21 to view this material) so the porn argument doesn't hold up, especially considering Molly Coddles stories have been on deviant art for a long time now and that site hasnt objected too them as deviant art is not specifically a porn site or adult site and as such the rules are often stricter heck they aren't even 18 + only on deviant art mostly so I dont see why some stories have gone
> 
> 
> yes great idea the mods are busy lets all PM and piss them off by having to get them to send PMS to us individually, PMs would have been nice as they took them down or even a forum post, now this thread is going they could simply post here but no word, if the mods dont have time to reply in a forum thread how would you think they'd feel getting probably 70+ PMs each asking where stories are etc



I don't know why they make 21 cards in UK, nor do I really care. They also make 16 cards.. is that cause at 16 your an adult? Nope. Using cards to back up your point is pretty pathetic dude. We're talking borderline pedophilia here, not the Hallmark store. Also lol @ using Wikipedia to back up your point. Least reliable source. 

From my experience mods are always happy to answer anyones questions in a PM.



Vader7476 said:


> I said he could do anything he wants with the site...multiple times in fact. That wasn't the point of that first part of the post.
> 
> Oh, Conrad has gotten back to me a couple times quite quickly about a few matters but yeah, not in the vein that we'd all like, I'm sure. I'm not sure how busy he and the mods are, Observer aside from being incredibly indepth and educated with his responses was also extremely efficient and quick with them as well. Hopefully soon business will go back to normal.



Well, considering Risible & Observer.. two of the mods from the library recently quit I'm sure this job is even more difficult because there's less man power doing the work. And yes, it is a lot of work. Give them some time.


----------



## Vader7476

thatgirl08 said:


> Well, considering Risible & Observer.. two of the mods from the library recently quit I'm sure this job is even more difficult because there's less man power doing the work. And yes, it is a lot of work. Give them some time.



I just editted a response to you above this one! Haha, what weird timing! 

Oh, definitely giving them time. Haha, even if I didn't want to, I wouldn't have a choice about that matter!


----------



## thatgirl08

Vader7476 said:


> I said he could do anything he wants with the site...multiple times in fact. That wasn't the point of that first part of the post.
> 
> Oh, Conrad has gotten back to me a couple times quite quickly about a few matters but yeah, not in the vein that we'd all like, I'm sure. I'm not sure how busy he and the mods are, Observer aside from being incredibly indepth and educated with his responses was also extremely efficient and quick with them as well. Hopefully soon business will go back to normal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just thought I'd chime in a bit here. Those two ideas, while you've written them simply, aren't the same story. They're entirely different. An 18 year old in High School is the king of the school, is thinking about career options and schools to go to, proms, football games, SAT's, etc. It's going to be localized generally in one place, and less likely to have a diversity of characters in a region. The College Frosh might be anxious and nervous, be out on their own or living with a roommate in a dorm(Which could lead to a lot of animosity), etc. Thinking about it just as one story with one year difference seems at first glance like no big deal, but is such a huge difference in settings and situations that are possible. A college story isn't going to have parents in it that are active for the protagonist as much as parents of a High School student.
> 
> To limit stories to college and up takes away a huge genre of possible stories and ones that are already written. The diversity and possiblities are what keep a story entertaining. The Weight Gain is what brings the readers and writers here, but the stories that get the most reads and are the best received do everything well. The more you put boundaries on the literature, the more boring they can potentially become.
> 
> Plus, everyone's got that one person in High School you'd like to just see some just desserts to. Pun definitely intended.



Maybe we just look at WG fiction differently. To me, it's more important what the basic elements of the story are rather than small details. You can get the same elements across with all types of different storylines. When I want to get off, I'm not that concerned with where the character is or her score on her SAT but more about descriptions of the gain, her body, how it's coming about, etc. Details matter less than you think I bet.


----------



## thatgirl08

Vader7476 said:


> I just editted a response to you above this one! Haha, what weird timing!



Haha I was just like wtf how did I miss that whole paragraph?!


----------



## KFD

I am 26, and I still skate everywhere. You don't have to be south of adulthood to ride a skateboard, people! On another note, I was on Bourbon street last night, it was awesome...
/threadjack


----------



## Vader7476

thatgirl08 said:


> Maybe we just look at WG fiction differently. To me, it's more important what the basic elements of the story are rather than small details. You can get the same elements across with all types of different storylines. When I want to get off, I'm not that concerned with where the character is or her score on her SAT but more about descriptions of the gain, her body, how it's coming about, etc. Details matter less than you think I bet.



[I'll preface by saying this is a longer reply than I anticipated, but is key in defining my personal ideas on the subject. Perhaps you disagree.]

Well, if we're going to take the masturbation route, the details matter even more. Very similar to how you're thinking though. I'll give an example. 

We've all read a story where a girl gains weight like this: (Is she 14?! Haha, no, I'll make her 18+ in this specific example! )

Julie ate so much, and gained 150 pounds! She had a big belly, like she was 30 months pregnant!

Terrible, right? Doesn't really get ya in the mood, makes little sense, and there's not many details of not only her body, but what Julie is doing. Now let's look at this one:

Julie let out a moan. Her slender fingertips slowly running up the dome of her taught stomach, feeling ever so gently how large it had gotten this year. Pouring over her undone jeans, a button on the floor beside her, she felt fat. 

I could continue, but don't want to get out of hand with the example. First one is 2 sentences, the latter: 3. I would wager you quite like the second one more, find it more sexy. Why? Because the details are better. If you'd like a more thorough explanation I could break it down, but I think it makes enough sense as is. 

Now, to not really bring up another topic entirely, but in conjuction with this, rather, we have to then look at the addition of other fetishes. This is where the details are crucial. Even subsets of the WG fetish, everyone has specific things they like. Perhaps you like tummies. Perhaps someone else likes hips. Perhaps someone just likes the concept of Weight Gain(That'd be me! I love all theoretical WG. Women, children, and men. The process in and of itself is what I enjoy, not so much the end product: An overweight individual). Maybe fat talk is up your ally, or maybe you like pregnant, or S&M, or a billion other possibilities. This is where a writer shows what they like, cause it makes it into the story and can be done well. 

So let's bring that idea back to the original. How does that possibly have anything to do with an esoteric idea such as an SAT score. Well, what if you want your character to be stressed, and like that he would be worried and that can help expand on an outburst about weight because everything is getting to him! 

Oh no, I'm not doing well on the pre-exams and I need a good score, I'm getting so distraught! And of course he's paying less attention to his snacking. But, wait! He hasn't found a date yet for prom! Oh jeepers! Haha, you get the picture. 



thatgirl08 said:


> Haha I was just like wtf how did I miss that whole paragraph?!



Hahaha, I hate that! Especially, if you're really tired and trying to reply. Then the next day you go and look, and half your post makes no sense and you've missed glaring parts of their post! :doh: And of course, they've already replied!


----------



## Dwavenhobble

thatgirl08 said:


> Yeah, you're right.. it's extremely important we make WG stories realistic.. like weight gain pills, feeding machines & gaining to 3,302 pounds.  COME ON. You're reaching here. You don't NEED kids in erotic stories.. they can be hot without any mention of being under 18.. use your creativity. Yeah, kids are sexual before 18 but that doesn't make it appropriate to include them or sexual descriptions of them in erotic stories. Honestly, I don't really care one way or the other what you fap to.. but since this is the rule, you have to follow it.


again we come to that it doesnt say the characters have to be over 18, main characters are generally done as over 18 especially in XWG stories but the point is in a previous thread Observer actually said something along the lines "A finishing school is something some people in the Uk can go to at about 16, as this is the age of consent in the UK I see no problem with the main character being 16"
The further thing is yes there are XWG stories that are unrealistic but there are some done quite realistically, the alice saga for example its what 26 chapters now and alice has gained at most 150lbs over that time though the are more WG than anything else or SWG. the thing is although you can write round it the honesty of the little kid is a working way to force characters to accept, or realise their gain, or in some cases a means of humiliations. So yes you can write round it but some stories without these bits happening it would require other more elaborate means to achieve the goal.



thatgirl08 said:


> Maybe you don't think this site has any benefit sans the library but clearly MANY people do or the forums wouldn't be so active. It's great you come here to fap, I do too, but I come here for other things as well. It's pretty naive to act as though the library is the only, or even main, pull of Dims.


Dims is a big site, its been running probably the longest out of all the main weigth gain sites now or atleast the most actively updated (well the forums anyway) i wouldnt be surprised if in about 10 years other sites are catching up, if not overtaking here for popularity, heck Im sure before the collapse pawg was running close to the members here.
Like minded communities that have been around so long will be big, the thing is the only thing for me Dimms does better than any other forum is the library, I've been around for a while and really Dimms moves quite slowly in alot of areas.



thatgirl08 said:


> I don't know why they make 21 cards in UK, nor do I really care. They also make 16 cards.. is that cause at 16 your an adult? Nope. Using cards to back up your point is pretty pathetic dude. We're talking borderline pedophilia here, not the Hallmark store. Also lol @ using Wikipedia to back up your point. Least reliable source.


this is where I can come into my own as you say i can't reliably use wikipedia as a source but in this case its a great source because its unbiased, anyone can edit it and their mods (or whatever passes for mods) check and weed out stuff so if its their it might not be 100% perfect but nor will it be total bovine manure either, so the one thing that can be agreed on by those editing wikipedia is 21 was seen as an age of passing into adulthood 




thatgirl08 said:


> From my experience mods are always happy to answer anyones questions in a PM.


I prefer not to bother mods with PMs when they are busy and this thread will hopefully let them reply in their own time, why should I ask for a response instantly to me when a reply to the community is more effective and would allow the message to spread quicker.




thatgirl08 said:


> Well, considering Risible & Observer.. two of the mods from the library recently quit I'm sure this job is even more difficult because there's less man power doing the work. And yes, it is a lot of work. Give them some time.


Observer quit! ok that now explains the rapid pulling of the articles the lack of mod replies etc here, Observer was one of the best mods ive ever met and though I didnt see quite eye to eye with him on everything I will miss his style I just hope whoever takes over doesnt go power mad and remembers to serve the community rather than act as a sort of superpowered moron.



thatgirl08 said:


> Maybe we just look at WG fiction differently. To me, it's more important what the basic elements of the story are rather than small details. You can get the same elements across with all types of different storylines. When I want to get off, I'm not that concerned with where the character is or her score on her SAT but more about descriptions of the gain, her body, how it's coming about, etc. Details matter less than you think I bet.



Actually following on from what Vader said being in the Uk a good trick Ive seen in stories (some from this site) was the 18th birthday introducing alcohol etc. plus aging in stories for example would an erotic story that begins the day before a girls 18th birthday be pulled when it was setting the scene then the 18th birthday being the trigger as such.

The parents thing is hard to do with collage as the parents have less control, true a roommate can be used but it doesnt have the authroity feeling too it.

As I've heard said before with many things "the Devil is in the details" in other worlds a little details can change a good story to great one.


----------



## Observer

OK, I've been pretty much staying out of this since I'm not the curator of the Library, but some pretty bad stereotyping is going on here.

None of the stories in question ever involved teens with "feeding machines & gaining to 3,302 pounds." Had such a story been submitted it would have been rejected. Very few stories involving any age protagonists were even submitted in recent times.

It is simply incorrect to assume that everyone who reads WR (and please notice that means Weight Related, not just weight gain) fiction does it to "fap" or push fantasy characters into immobility. Conrad respects "freedom of fantsasy" and I honored that during my tenure but such tales to me was never what the Dimensions librasry and WR fiction is all about. 

Considering the effort and quality of many of the stories here such generalizations are insulting to both authors and readers.

The reality is that literature both mirrors and influences culture - both positively and negatively. It can entertain, inform. inspire, and depress. And, sorry, it isn't first written or read at any arbitrary age. That's why we have editors and rules - now determined to be 18 with no flexibility. 

The reason for the age 18 limit isn't because it will impact Clubhouse subscriptions or because those <18 aren't supposed to be here (everyone knows they are) or because at that age people can magically better "handle" certain types of literature,. It is because that is generally recognized as the cutoff for emancipation when everyone can make their own "adult" decisions (although in many jurisdictions its younger).


----------



## thatgirl08

Vader7476 said:


> [I'll preface by saying this is a longer reply than I anticipated, but is key in defining my personal ideas on the subject. Perhaps you disagree.] *SNIIIIP* Well, what if you want your character to be stressed, and like that he would be worried and that can help expand on an outburst about weight because everything is getting to him!



Shortened this to save room. I agree that details are important, but your example is actually making my point more than yours. Let's look at it again.

Julie let out a moan. Her slender fingertips slowly running up the dome of her taught stomach, feeling ever so gently how large it had gotten this year. Pouring over her undone jeans, a button on the floor beside her, she felt fat.

In these three sentences does it matter what the characters name is? How old she is? Whether she lives in Utah or New Jersey? These are the details I'm talking about. Julie could be 17 and attending high school in Utah or she could be Marissa and 20 and attending college in New Jersey. The details are still the same, the concept is still the same. 



Dwavenhobble said:


> again we come to that it doesnt say the characters have to be over 18, main characters are generally done as over 18 especially in XWG stories but the point is in a previous thread Observer actually said something along the lines "A finishing school is something some people in the Uk can go to at about 16, as this is the age of consent in the UK I see no problem with the main character being 16" *SNIIIIIP*As I've heard said before with many things "the Devil is in the details" in other worlds a little details can change a good story to great one.



I snipped this to save room as well.

Yeah, Observer said that but it was quickly attacked & refuted by others so I wouldn't say it's valid. Not to mention the fact that he quit so I'd say he has little say in this now.

Your point about Dims and the library and other sites is based on your opinion. Like assholes, everyone has one. In my opinion, Dims would still remain a popular community sans the library and especially if only a portion (like what is currently being done) of the library was removed or edited. 

Make the girl go to a community college and commute. Jesus.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Observer said:


> OK, I've been pretty much staying out of this since I'm not the curator of the Library, but some pretty bad stereotyping is going on here.
> 
> None of the stories in question ever involved teens with "feeding machines & gaining to 3,302 pounds." Had such a story been submitted it would have been rejected. Very few stories involving any age protagonists were even submitted in recent times.
> 
> It is simply incorrect to assume that everyone who reads WR (and please notice that means Weight Related, not just weight gain) fiction does it to "fap" or push fantasy characters into immobility. Conrad respects "freedom of fantsasy" and I honored that during my tenure but such tales to me was never what the Dimensions librasry and WR fiction is all about.
> 
> Considering the effort and quality of many of the stories here such generalizations are insulting to both authors and readers.
> 
> The reality is that literature both mirrors and influences culture - both positively and negatively. It can entertain, inform. inspire, and depress. And, sorry, it isn't first written or read at any arbitrary age. That's why we have editors and rules - now determined to be 18 with no flexibility.
> 
> The reason for the age 18 limit isn't because it will impact Clubhouse subscriptions or because those <18 aren't supposed to be here (everyone knows they are) or because at that age people can magically better "handle" certain types of literature,. It is because that is generally recognized as the cutoff for emancipation when everyone can make their own "adult" decisions (although in many jurisdictions its younger).



This is why you will be missed greatly as the main library curator. Thanks for actually clarifying the new rule of 18+ with no flex.

Just a side note any idea if conrad is thinking of sealing the site a bit, I only ask because its pretty easy to get to the studios work and although no hardcore just to cover the site a bit I think a porn site style enter or leave would be appropriate with the appropriate content warnings as if protection of minors is priority this site needs to be a bit less publically viewable especially without the warning (you know the ones at 16 everyone ignores but still).

In honesty out of what Ive written (I know theres not much but theres a few bits) I write them with fapping in mind, heck to me if someone said they enjoyed fapping to my work I know it would be a success. For me I dont know about other writers if i wanted to write stuff that wasnt meant to be fapped too I wouldnt write it to include a specific fetish id write it to cater for a general audience rather than one of people sharing roughly the same main fetish.


----------



## thatgirl08

Observer said:


> OK, I've been pretty much staying out of this since I'm not the curator of the Library, but some pretty bad stereotyping is going on here.
> 
> None of the stories in question ever involved teens with "feeding machines & gaining to 3,302 pounds." Had such a story been submitted it would have been rejected. Very few stories involving any age protagonists were even submitted in recent times.
> 
> It is simply incorrect to assume that everyone who reads WR (and please notice that means Weight Related, not just weight gain) fiction does it to "fap" or push fantasy characters into immobility. Conrad respects "freedom of fantsasy" and I honored that during my tenure but such tales to me was never what the Dimensions librasry and WR fiction is all about.
> 
> Considering the effort and quality of many of the stories here such generalizations are insulting to both authors and readers.
> 
> The reality is that literature both mirrors and influences culture - both positively and negatively. It can entertain, inform. inspire, and depress. And, sorry, it isn't first written or read at any arbitrary age. That's why we have editors and rules - now determined to be 18 with no flexibility.
> 
> The reason for the age 18 limit isn't because it will impact Clubhouse subscriptions or because those <18 aren't supposed to be here (everyone knows they are) or because at that age people can magically better "handle" certain types of literature,. It is because that is generally recognized as the cutoff for emancipation when everyone can make their own "adult" decisions (although in many jurisdictions its younger).



I never said feeding machines/3,302 pounds was related directly to the teenagers.. that was me proving that saying WG fiction has to be realistic is silly because clearly there are many stories that are unrealistic.

Are you really trying to tell me that people don't read erotic stories for some sort of sexual gratification or to masturbate? I'm sure there is some WR fiction in the library that isn't used for this but the majority is. I mean, come on. Let's be realistic here.

I never said the <18 was because it will impact CH subscriptions? That doesn't even make sense? Are you even reading my posts? I'm saying the same thing you are about the age of 18.


----------



## thatgirl08

Dwavenhobble said:


> In honesty out of what Ive written (I know theres not much but theres a few bits) I write them with fapping in mind, heck to me if someone said they enjoyed fapping to my work I know it would be a success. For me I dont know about other writers if i wanted to write stuff that wasnt meant to be fapped too I wouldnt write it to include a specific fetish id write it to cater for a general audience rather than one of people sharing roughly the same main fetish.



Yeah, this. This is the first thing you've said I agree with. At least we're on one of the same pages.


----------



## Vader7476

Observer said:


> OK, I've been pretty much staying out of this since I'm not the curator of the Library, but some pretty bad stereotyping is going on here.
> 
> None of the stories in question ever involved teens with "feeding machines & gaining to 3,302 pounds." Had such a story been submitted it would have been rejected. Very few stories involving any age protagonists were even submitted in recent times.
> 
> It is simply incorrect to assume that everyone who reads WR (and please notice that means Weight Related, not just weight gain) fiction does it to "fap" or push fantasy characters into immobility. Conrad respects "freedom of fantsasy" and I honored that during my tenure but such tales to me was never what the Dimensions librasry and WR fiction is all about.
> 
> Considering the effort and quality of many of the stories here such generalizations are insulting to both authors and readers.
> 
> The reality is that literature both mirrors and influences culture - both positively and negatively. It can entertain, inform. inspire, and depress. And, sorry, it isn't first written or read at any arbitrary age. That's why we have editors and rules - now determined to be 18 with no flexibility.
> 
> The reason for the age 18 limit isn't because it will impact Clubhouse subscriptions or because those <18 aren't supposed to be here (everyone knows they are) or because at that age people can magically better "handle" certain types of literature,. It is because that is generally recognized as the cutoff for emancipation when everyone can make their own "adult" decisions (although in many jurisdictions its younger).



That limit has only to do with main protagonists though, correct? It's still okay to have underage characters so far as they're not the draw of the story?


----------



## Vader7476

thatgirl08 said:


> Shortened this to save room. I agree that details are important, but your example is actually making my point more than yours. Let's look at it again.
> 
> Julie let out a moan. Her slender fingertips slowly running up the dome of her taught stomach, feeling ever so gently how large it had gotten this year. Pouring over her undone jeans, a button on the floor beside her, she felt fat.
> 
> In these three sentences does it matter what the characters name is? How old she is? Whether she lives in Utah or New Jersey? These are the details I'm talking about. Julie could be 17 and attending high school in Utah or she could be Marissa and 20 and attending college in New Jersey. The details are still the same, the concept is still the same.




The character's name matters cause you need to know what character in your story is doing the action. 

Age matters because it puts an image in your mind. Having her be 80 would detract for some readers, though yes, it being 17 or 20 there isn't a huge difference.

I live in New Jersey, it would potentially kill some of the realism of settings and scenery weren't correct.  Although if you're going to set this to just that paragraph I wrote, then no, the state setting doesn't matter, but other setting does. Is she doing that in a food court where others can see her? Or in the privacy of her home? The former could be a lot sexier for some people because of the public humiliation. :bow:


----------



## Dwavenhobble

thatgirl08 said:


> I never said feeding machines/3,302 pounds was related directly to the teenagers.. that was me proving that saying WG fiction has to be realistic is silly because clearly there are many stories that are unrealistic.


i know some people enjoy the whole super speed gain stories but i've found those are the most slated aswell, this is because its very hard to do quick really fast gains well with enough description of each gain stage.

Really though I think most writers who write the stories here know their stories are going to be fapped too they arent going to be the next da vinci code or something here. I do have another project a normal standard fiction Im writing but I know the stuff I write specifically for weight gain sites are just to help people fapp


----------



## thatgirl08

Vader7476 said:


> The character's name matters cause you need to know what character in your story is doing the action.
> 
> Age matters because it puts an image in your mind. Having her be 80 would detract for some readers, though yes, it being 17 or 20 there isn't a huge difference.
> 
> I live in New Jersey, it would potentially kill some of the realism of settings and scenery weren't correct.  Although if you're going to set this to just that paragraph I wrote, then no, the state setting doesn't matter, but other setting does. Is she doing that in a food court where others can see her? Or in the privacy of her home? The former could be a lot sexier for some people because of the public humiliation. :bow:



Dude. You're really stretching here. I think it was pretty clear my point wasn't that the character didn't need a name but rather the character could be given any female name (assuming it was a story about a girl) and the story would still work. Like I said, it could be Julie or it could be Marisa. Also, yeah, age matters to a certain extent but like you conceded, 17 and 20 is not a big difference. Hell, let's make it even smaller. Instead of writing about a 17 year old, make her 18. Setting as far as saying whether shes at home or in a food court, to me, is more about concept.. whether or not humiliation is included in the story is concept details which I said are important. What isn't important is whether it's a house in NJ or Utah. Get my drift here?



Dwavenhobble said:


> i know some people enjoy the whole super speed gain stories but i've found those are the most slated aswell, this is because its very hard to do quick really fast gains well with enough description of each gain stage.



Yeah, I agree with this but for some reason, these stories are still written so they must appeal to some people.


----------



## Vader7476

thatgirl08 said:


> Dude. You're really stretching here. I think it was pretty clear my point wasn't that the character didn't need a name but rather the character could be given any female name (assuming it was a story about a girl) and the story would still work. Like I said, it could be Julie or it could be Marisa. Also, yeah, age matters to a certain extent but like you conceded, 17 and 20 is not a big difference. Hell, let's make it even smaller. Instead of writing about a 17 year old, make her 18. Setting as far as saying whether shes at home or in a food court, to me, is more about concept.. whether or not humiliation is included in the story is concept details which I said are important. What isn't important is whether it's a house in NJ or Utah. Get my drift here?



Yeah, I know I'm stretching. Most of that was just joking around. Originally I had thought you meant that details didn't matter at all. But yeah, we'd both agree if you're going in there solely for masturbation, you want the WG details, but you still want all the regular aspects of a story to be present or else it's not a story at that point, but just random fat words.


----------



## thatgirl08

Vader7476 said:


> Yeah, I know I'm stretching. Most of that was just joking around. Originally I had thought you meant that details didn't matter at all. But yeah, we'd both agree if you're going in there solely for masturbation, you want the WG details, but you still want all the regular aspects of a story to be present or else it's not a story at that point, but just random fat words.



Yeah, agreed.


----------



## Blackjack

Vader7476 said:


> ...it's not a story at that point, but just random fat words.



This actually sounds like an interesting concept for an experimental fiction thing.


----------



## Vader7476

Blackjack said:


> This actually sounds like an interesting concept for an experimental fiction thing.



I've seen it sort of done in short writing experiments. Where you only allowed to use like 69 or 88 or so words, and I've seen it applied to WG fiction a few times. Fun thought excersize!


----------



## Tad

mossystate said:


> Tad, there was no '" apparently " about it.



I saw this is someone else's quote of Mossy. I was about to shoot off a reply pointing out that I pretty much always put disclaimers in where appropriate, and that as I had not read the thread in question of course I used 'apparently.' Then I went back and re-read my post, and saw I mixed the word order (far from the first time, I'm sure it won't be the last. I do that quite a lot when I'm writing quickly--sometimes I take the time to review posts and I might catch it, sometimes I don't).

I actually wrote: "...where examples of apparently under age characters... " which implies that I question whether the evidence was convincing. This should have been "...apparently examples of under age characters..." which would imply that I've heard this is the case but don't know of my own knowledge.

My apologies to anyone who showed evidence in the thread in the lounge. It was not my intention to throw doubt on the evidence they presented, it was simply not to report as solid fact something I only had through hearsay. 

</diversion of topic>


----------



## Holly-Marie

I'm not going to quote anyone but I feel like adding my thoughts to this.

I should first tell you I have a computer science back ground and a very analytical mind. (more so then I would prefer) As such I look at such rules how well they can be applied.

If I was asked to write a computer program that would scan a story for age references and such and then decide if a story is ok or not based on those rules I would decline. Not because the decision needs to be made by human because you need intuition or something - no. The reason is those rules are WAY to unclear. I think this is essentially why people argue back and forth here.

First it said "no under age" and as the arguments clearly show is absolutely unclear what this means since it is a cultural and legal agreement what this means, that each legal society agreed on. Its differed every where in the world.

Now it says "main characters 18+". That is certainly better but still not even close to conclusive. What is a Character and what is a MAIN CHARACTER in this sense? How many references (absolute [fixed number] or relative [procentual]) does a character need to have to be MAIN? How direct has any refference have to be to count? ...

*1.*
Lets assume the writer wants to do a story about a girl who has just turned 18 and who decided she wants to gain 50 or 100 lbs to feel right. She is the main character and 18+ so this is OK.
However she has a sister who is 16 and has a problem with her big sister doing this to herself. A big part of the story would come from the interaction of the two even if the baby sister never gains a pound. Is she a main character to? Is she a side character? How often could she be mentioned? 

What if she would gain 5 pounds in the 2 years or so the story runs? Is she then sexualized and off limits? What gain would be the limit for that?

If both where over 18 they would most likely be both out of puberty so they would interact quite differently. It would not be the same story.

What if only the parents appeared but mentioned that the younger sister might be influenced badly by the behavior of the older sister? This would surely be in the interest of protecting children but would it meet the rules?

*2.*
A story about a mother of age 32 who gains. On first glance this is ok. However mother implies at least one child. If we assume a legal age for sex for the conception of the child this means the child is at best 14 so under age. Even if the child is absent throughout the story the "decision" of the mother to gain weight or just being heavy will effect the child in some way or another even if never mentioned in the story. Is this still ok?
What if the story runs for 5 years or more. The child suddenly appears in the story and gains weight for some reason or is fat. It may never have been mentioned but it is likely the mothers story had some kind of effect on the child. So is the story now of limits? What if it was broken into two stories? Would it make a difference if it was different chapters of the same story or two stories? With the current rules it may make a difference. The question then is if it should?

-----
*A few thoughts that just popped in my head:*

Science Fiction has always explored limits and taboos - has questioned what if? The show Outer Limits or even Star Trek are good examples for that. 

To me WR fiction too does to some extent explore how the main characters and others interact and what emotions arise from those interactions. What social, medical, technical issues arise and how they might be solved. Especially the type about social limits would no longer be possible or be limited to the "normal" and uninteresting stuff.

I'm Male-to-Female transsexual (post-OP) and although I do not wish this to my worst enemy - not fitting into normal gender norms has made me question things I would other wise never have asked. It gave me insights - and pains  - that others will never know.

In computer science rules are lined out based on the extremes. How big and how small will a certain value be? What type of variable will be able to handle all types of possible inputs and yet need as little space as possible? (rockets exploded because of this not done right)
Social parameters should be defined by extremes as well but hardly ever are (so far).

Its is not enough to say: well move your character to age 25 to be sure. At that age the character will think differently, have different friends, interact with different people and interact differently. The character will have other personal, educational and medical issues then some one at age 18 and at least for a good story this WILL matter.

So it should be save for an author to explore the limits and personally I think it should even be ok to over step them a bit (if the author is willing to gable being told of). If every one in this world would always have followed the rules and not tried to test the limits we would still be in the stone age.

What people here want is to know how far it is ok to go and from where on they will have to live with being told off. Right now that is not clear and this uncertainty causes fear.
-----

*3.*
I'm sure I could find more such issues that most people will not think of until they get there. Most computer programs that do not work right, do so because of incorrect or not specific enough parameters (then things get assumed that should not have been assumed) and it is EXTREMELY hard to define them so that everything will be covered.

Computer science usually does not attempt to cover everything since computers are usually not able to simulate everything any way. Instead it says what the program or system can handle - anything else is pure luck. The program may or may not work correctly outside very restrictive rules so if you are not sure don't go there or its your fault as the user.

So what has this got to do with erotic stories? We should look what we want to achieve with the rules and we should consider what those rules will mean for the stuff thats limited by them.

In this case we should ask first who do we want to protect from what? How much freedom are we willing to give up for enforcing those rules? Will the end result still be worth reading or are the rules so restrictive that whats still possible is not worth having any more.

Computer science has quite a few problems that we know how to solve but we also know its pointless to try to solve them with the known algorithms. It would simply take too long to solve them (for interesting problem sizes) and we usually can also say if and by how much better any (future) algorithm can be. Most of those problems are also very important so we try to find ways to find a good enough solution knowing it may not be the best but it is certainly not the worst.

Here it is not about what can be done and what not but still about what do we want to have as a minimum before the whole story/forum site becomes pointless.

I think we do agree that too much restriction is a death sentence. People are rightfully concerned that the way the current rules are worded, they could be used to restrict so much the stories still possible will only appeal to a small minority. If that would happen than the rules have certainly failed their goal. At least I hope that is how the majority here sees it - if not my post is pointless and can be ignored.

Censorship and prohibitions have never been a good method to regulate anything. Look at how the countries of the world struggle to deal with alcohol abuse. The US did prohibit it for a while, Scandinavia has a government monopol on alcohol and extreme prices, Australia fights with high fines and blaming it all on those that serve the alcohol. I'm sure there are lots of other measures in place all over the world. You know what all of those measures have in common? They do not work! Strangely it worked almost the best in countries that are rather liberal about it and have only medium restrictions that are clearly worded but turn a blind eye to some over stepping when executing the rules.
In Germany you are allowed small amount of alcohol from age 16 on. This means that usually parents may allow a small class for a birthday at age 14 and one beer for dinner from age 16 on. So you learn to use alcohol as what it is. A pleasure drink that should not be over done. But even for this too work it depends on the parents to educate their children.

Personally I agree that some of the stories here are at least borderline and a few even clearly over the border. So lets not talk about whether or not such rules are needed but how to word them in a way that give writers a clear guideline that can NOT be misinterpreted and that does not limit the writers freedom more then is absolutely necessary but that also keep Dims and its admins save from lawsuits.

Right now I see rules that are unclear and can mean a range of things and there for need to be interpreted new for each story. (Computers are too correct and too fair for such decisions - that is why I said I would not attempt to write a program for that.)

For a writer this means he may have an idea that he wants to bring to the reader that needs him to go as close to the limit as possible. I personally think there are a good amount of stories for which this IS essential. Currently I would not write such a story since I may do it all for nothing. The story may get pulled or I'm forced to rewrite it all and sacrifice a big deal of the story and its "soul". I would probably not bother to do it because of the time needed and because it would hurt to cut down my own work. (just to be sure I have yet to actually write a story here  )

*So unclear rules will mean most writers will try to stay well clear of the danger zone and all stories will look more or less the same.*

Maybe we could make a story generator then. Choose your characters name, age and sex, the amount gained and in what time. It may also ask for a partner but more family is to dangerous since it may imply underage children. Ah one could probably also choose the location. Interaction with people of younger ages is dangerous so is left out. Older ages do think more similar so less tension and less need to include parameters for that in our story generator.

I bet with this you could generate a good deal of masturbation stories with no depth and no "soul" to it but that confirm perfectly with the guidelines. It also would make the authors work easier. They could just write generic story parts that are then fit together. What do you think sounds good, or not? To me this is as appealing as most porn movies. Not at all since they are totally pointless and a flat sheet of paper has more depth.

*I hope this post will stop at least some of you to just fall at each others throats and make you start to think about the very read issues and concerns of readers and writers here that those posts express.*

I hope I could help focus it all a bit more to the real issues, because at least for such discussions my overly analytical way may actually be an advantage over the more emotional approach I see here (and that I wish I could find more in myself for some things). However at least for me - this discussion is not the place for (over heated) emotions, or am I wrong here?


----------



## Vader7476

Holly-Marie said:


> ...but that also keep Dims and its admins save from lawsuits.



What lawsuits do you speak? I can't imagine a situation where Dims would get sued over literature. Freedom of speech and all that jazz.


----------



## Blame Picasso

Can we just move on and get back to writing now? The horse has been dead for days, why are we still beating it?


----------



## Tad

Blame Picasso said:


> Can we just move on and get back to writing now? The horse has been dead for days, why are we still beating it?



Ummm....this is Dims,man, it's what we do


----------



## Santaclear

Vader, Holly-Marie and other posters who are concerned about stories being "censored" etc.....

The main issue is that many Dimensions members don't want to be associated with any site that that could be construed as has having even the vaguest whiff of condoning child abuse or child porn, even in fantasy writing. 

From a merely practical standpoint, some are teachers or work with kids, and any misunderstanding around this could jeopardize their work.


----------



## Vader7476

Santaclear said:


> Vader, Holly-Marie and other posters who are concerned about stories being "censored" etc.....
> 
> The main issue is that many Dimensions members don't want to be associated with any site that that could be construed as has having even the vaguest whiff of condoning child abuse or child porn, even in fantasy writing.
> 
> From a merely practical standpoint, some are teachers or work with kids, and any misunderstanding around this could jeopardize their work.



It has nothing to do with members though, it's about Conrad and what he wants. 

Your second point is nonsensical. This is a porn website. Aside from the fact that no one should really be using their real name or information on here, they'd still be jeopardizing their work if caught on here anyway.


----------



## Vader7476

Blame Picasso said:


> Can we just move on and get back to writing now? The horse has been dead for days, why are we still beating it?



This is a forum, the entire point is discussion and debate(And for the Library the posting of stories). Anyone that wishes to express their viewpoint is going to be posting, regardless of the issue being resolved or not.


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## Wagimawr

Vader7476 said:


> Your second point is nonsensical. This is a porn website. Aside from the fact that no one should really be using their real name or information on here, they'd still be jeopardizing their work if caught on here anyway.


This is a community.

The paysite board and portions of the Weight Board can be pornographic (albeit softcore at best). That's it.

If this were a porn website, would there be a "no pink" rule?


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## thatgirl08

Vader7476 said:


> This is a porn website.



This is the vibe I keep getting from you and others in this thread. It's just porn, it's just stories, it's just pictures. Guess what? For most of us, it isn't just porn and for plenty of us, we don't use the porn sections at all. This is a community, and a size acceptance site, in addition to it having some pornographic/erotic material. To dilute Dims down to being just about porn is naive, and frankly, insulting to the rest of us who don't use it simply for masturbating.


----------



## Fascinita

Dwavenhobble said:


> also I'll take this chance to post the scientific perfect woman formula
> your age /2 +7= the perfect age so in essence 18 year olds here scientifically their perfect woman would be 16.



Likewise, I'll also take this opportunity to point out that the above is pure comedy.


----------



## Vader7476

Wagimawr said:


> This is a community.
> 
> The paysite board and portions of the Weight Board can be pornographic (albeit softcore at best). That's it.
> 
> If this were a porn website, would there be a "no pink" rule?



Having porn websites advertised on here and having erotic pictures and literature make it one. Absolutely. Don't dilute yourself into thinking otherwise. 

There's definitely a community, doesn't change the fact that it's a community on a porn website. The entire point is that EVERYONE on here likes and finds something sexy and many even prefer their partner to be larger than average. All about about sex, see?


----------



## Vader7476

thatgirl08 said:


> This is the vibe I keep getting from you and others in this thread. It's just porn, it's just stories, it's just pictures. Guess what? For most of us, it isn't just porn and for plenty of us, we don't use the porn sections at all. This is a community, and a size acceptance site, in addition to it having some pornographic/erotic material. To dilute Dims down to being just about porn is naive, and frankly, insulting to the rest of us who don't use it simply for masturbating.



Answered most of this in previous post. 

To deny that pornography and the sexual preference of larger woman and men is the purpose of this entire site is disingenuous and absurd. 

I also didn't say it was just a porn website and that's all that went on here, so please don't put words in my mouth. Besides which, you inferred you DO use it for masturbation in our previous discussion about fantasy writing. It would have made your point weaker if it weren't for the fact I didn't say that.


----------



## thatgirl08

Most of the actual forum is about size acceptance, fat related health, fat fashion, off topic stuff, etc. So, no, this isn't a sex site. I DO use it for masturbation on occasion but it's certainly not ALL or even MOST of what draws me here and I think that's true for many, many people.


----------



## Vader7476

thatgirl08 said:


> Most of the actual forum is about size acceptance, fat related health, fat fashion, off topic stuff, etc. So, no, this isn't a sex site. I DO use it for masturbation on occasion but it's certainly not ALL or even MOST of what draws me here and I think that's true for many, many people.



I think you're getting a bit too caught up in the delusion. 

People come here because they've got a fat fetish. They want a fat partner. There's definitely pornagraphic portions of the site. You can't have just a little bit of porn and not be a porn site, it doesn't work like that. The fact that it has porn makes it necessary to be 18+

If the most important part was about accepting size, it'd be open to all ages for comfort for those in that awkward time of their lives, to give people encouragement and a positive outlook. It can't do that to all ages because of the porn that's on the site. 

Most Popular Forum(By number of posts)

The Lounge 412687 
Plus-size Paysite... 148724 
Main Dimensions... 119627 
Weight Board 68726 
The Foodee Board 56326 
BHM/FFA 50336 
Fat sexuality 36264 
Clothing/Fashion 36150 
East 16682 
Erotic Weight Gain 15122 


How many of the top forums are about sex? Out of those ten, unarguably 4. I'd argue on a couple, but 4 undoubtably. The second one, Plus-Size is definitely. The only forum that beats it out on posts, is the lounge. Where, most forums I go to, Lounges always dominate post size. I consider it a non-factor. People love playing games everywhere, but it's not what this site is about, obviously.

Most Viewed Threads

Your skinniest... 1097240 
Post Your Sexiest... 575233 
Belly hang... 489133 
The show your... 341225 
Post a picture of... 299664 
Belly library... 275776 
post your sexiest... 240401 
Post Your... 218780 
Recent Picture of... 137604 
Huge Thighs? 124818 

When you click you can see more of the title. I'm too lazy to write them out, but come on. Look at it. All about Weight Gain, and specific body parts that turn people on.

There's no doubt there's more to the site than just sexual gratification, but that's the main draw of it and why the other areas were allowed to thrive. Think about search engines. Think about what drives people to look for sites. Porn is if not the number one reason, one of the main ones. Not size acceptance. This place was made to cater to that group. Other reasons might make you stay, and that's one of the reasons this site is the biggest, but why many find this place is the sexual aspect. 

Perhaps you still disagree with me, but I can't really see any way I could convince you otherwise. Basically my assertion is that if you come here and masturbate, even sparingly, it's a porn site. That would be my moral stance. It might be easier for us to tackle this discussion that way, because I having a feeling that will be the major hang up, not so much the numbers.


----------



## Fascinita

Vader7476 said:


> *People* come here because they've got a fat fetish. They want a fat partner.



I don't want to interrupt your daydream, Vader. Don't mind me. This is for the benefit of everyone at large. 

Just want to point out that the Fat are people, too. And the Fat come here, too. And the Fat don't necessarily want a fat partner. Ergo, "people come here because they've got a fat fetish" is factually, statistically wrong. 

It stands to reason that, if the above argument starts from a faulty premise, the conclusion may be faulty, too. 

Leaving what fat people want out of the equation may be convenient, but you know, thank goodness fat people are capable of inserting their realities back into the "conversation."

PS - The people who are here to view are not necessarily the most vested in the community, nor the most active. If they want more representation, let them contribute more. See, it takes energy and stuff to keep a forum like this going. Why should the laziest users get the most consideration in matters political?


----------



## Vader7476

Fascinita said:


> I don't want to interrupt your daydream, Vader. Don't mind me. This is for the benefit of everyone at large.
> 
> Just want to point out that the Fat, are people, too. And the Fat come here, too. And the Fat don't necessarily want a fat partner. Ergo, "people come here because they've got a fat fetish" is factually, statistically wrong.
> 
> It stands to reason that, if the above argument starts from a faulty premise, the conclusion may be faulty, too.
> 
> Leaving what fat people want out of the equation may be convenient, but you know, thank goodness fat people are capable of inserting their realities back into the "conversation."
> 
> PS - The people who are here to view are not necessarily the most vested in the community, nor the most active. If they want more representation, let them contribute more. See, it takes energy and stuff to keep a forum like this going. Why should the laziest users get the most consideration in matters political?



Daydream implies a fantasy, and I assure you, my viewpoint is highly plausible.

Your dissertation is missing a key element: The fat people who come here, who don't want a fat partner, are what the fat admirers come here for. Take the original Dimensions Magazine, which this entire site is based off of. It was made for the admirers, and focused on the women with weight. It's evolved a bit since then, but that still holds true. Aside from which, I'm trying to be brief, typing out every little exception to every single thing I say is tiring and a bit unnecessary. I thought it would have been quite obvious that not every single person comes here for the fetish, or comes to masturbate or whatever. I'm talking in generalizations, dangerous I know, and what the majority are on here for. Since many are silent, I think it'd be impossible for either side to know for sure, but other factors contribute to my thinking that I've already illustrated previous.

As for being active, the one list of stats was for views. So that answers that.

I'm not sure what your last sentence is in referance to. Laziest users get the most politically? Are you suggesting that those who post the most here get to decide what type of site this is? If so, I'd disagree heavily with that statement.


----------



## thatgirl08

Fascinita said:


> I don't want to interrupt your daydream, Vader. Don't mind me. This is for the benefit of everyone at large.
> 
> Just want to point out that the Fat are people, too. And the Fat come here, too. And the Fat don't necessarily want a fat partner. Ergo, "people come here because they've got a fat fetish" is factually, statistically wrong.
> 
> It stands to reason that, if the above argument starts from a faulty premise, the conclusion may be faulty, too.
> 
> Leaving what fat people want out of the equation may be convenient, but you know, thank goodness fat people are capable of inserting their realities back into the "conversation."
> 
> PS - The people who are here to view are not necessarily the most vested in the community, nor the most active. If they want more representation, let them contribute more. See, it takes energy and stuff to keep a forum like this going. Why should the laziest users get the most consideration in matters political?



This is basically what I would've written.

Also Vader, views doesn't equal active, in my opinion. Active is actual participation.


----------



## Vader7476

thatgirl08 said:


> This is basically what I would've written.
> 
> Also Vader, views doesn't equal active, in my opinion. Active is actual participation.



Views are not active members. Active is definitely participation. I was addressing, lazily, the part where he was saying that views don't mean active participation. I never said it did. However, views do show what's being looked at the most. Suffice it to say, it's hard to type when you're down a hand. 

In other words, where people go and look are at the sexy bits. Where people post the most: The fun and games(Thread games go really fast when it's post by post, and can be perpetuated by only a couple people quickly) and devoid of that, more sexy bits. Haha.

Look, I think it's a fair statement to say that in all likelyhood at least 40% of members come here for sexual gratification in one way or another. Albiet for stories, pics, updates on porn sites, or for others bemusement(more emotional of an invenstement than physical). What I mean by the last one is those who come on here to feel beautiful and accepted. If we could guage it accurately, I think the majority either come here or found this place for pornographic purposes. Even if it's only 30% which it most definitely is over, but even if it is that low, I'd STILL consider it a porn site. 

It's just too big of a chunk for me to dismiss entirely.


----------



## thatgirl08

I never dismissed it entirely either. Also 30 or 40 percent isn't the majority, you're contradicting yourself.


----------



## Vader7476

thatgirl08 said:


> I never dismissed it entirely either. Also 30 or 40 percent isn't the majority, you're contradicting yourself.



It's not a contradiction. 

I'm saying the majority on here definitely do use this site for pornographic purposes. No doubt in my mind. I can not prove that however. 

Even if that's not the case, and it is only 30 or 40 percent, I'd still have to say it was a porn site. Those numbers I certainly think are the lowest possible numbers and from the thread types, views, and sections, are more than provable.

Basically I'm covering my bases as where I think we'd all agree that if most people came here for porn, the validity of my statement rises and most would adopt it but if it's not, I'm saying I still agree with my original statement due to what we know without a doubt.

I'm not saying it has to be over half for me to consider it a porn site, but you guys might think I have a point if that were the case. Since we do not know and probably never will the actual number, I like my odds with what we do know.

Does that clear that up for you? I tried to make that one a little longer since it seems I'm not making my points clear when I try to be brief.


----------



## katorade

Vader7476 said:


> Most Popular Forum(By number of posts)
> 
> The Lounge 412687
> Plus-size Paysite... 148724
> Main Dimensions... 119627
> Weight Board 68726
> The Foodee Board 56326
> BHM/FFA 50336
> Fat sexuality 36264
> Clothing/Fashion 36150
> East 16682
> Erotic Weight Gain 15122
> 
> 
> How many of the top forums are about sex? Out of those ten, unarguably 4. I'd argue on a couple, but 4 undoubtably. The second one, Plus-Size is definitely. The only forum that beats it out on posts, is the lounge. Where, most forums I go to, Lounges always dominate post size. I consider it a non-factor. People love playing games everywhere, but it's not what this site is about, obviously.



Yes, nevermind the fact that the lounge has more than double, and almost triple the amount of posts as the paysite board. Why don't you do some actual math? I'd also like to see how you'd get more than 4 (majority)sexually charged boards out of that list.

You also don't take into account the fact that some forums on this message board are much newer than others. The BBW board is only months old. You're also not looking at the number of posts _per_ thread. 

By in large, the active membership on this message board is NOT here for the porn, though that may be a part of their reason. Also, it's a message board, so active membership DOES imply partaking in discussions and posting, not just browsing pictures. If that was the point, there would be no need for forums. Period.




As a side note to one of the earlier disputes brought up about what legal age is considering it differs in different countries, this website operates on laws applicable only to the United States because that is where the site is owned/servers are run.


----------



## Vader7476

katorade said:


> Yes, nevermind the fact that the lounge has more than double, and almost triple the amount of posts as the paysite board. Why don't you do some actual math? I'd also like to see how you'd get more than 4 (majority)sexually charged boards out of that list.
> 
> You also don't take into account the fact that some forums on this message board are much newer than others. The BBW board is only months old. You're also not looking at the number of posts _per_ thread.
> 
> By in large, the active membership on this message board is NOT here for the porn, though that may be a part of their reason. Also, it's a message board, so active membership DOES imply partaking in discussions and posting, not just browsing pictures. If that was the point, there would be no need for forums. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As a side note to one of the earlier disputes brought up about what legal age is considering it differs in different countries, this website operates on laws applicable only to the United States because that is where the site is owned/servers are run.



It's post count. I could bring up thread number, and the paysite board wins. The only reason the lounge wins on post count, well, it should be obvious: all the thread games. They build really quick. All forums who have thread games dominate in post count, it's just how it works. 

If we're talking about why the site is here, do you think it's because of the lounge? I don't think anyone would say the purpose of Dimensions is forum games and off topic posting. Would you? Porn's a possibility, so is Size acceptance, yes. Fat admiration. The lounge is a great place, yes, but not the purpose of the forum or the site for that matter. I mentioned most of this already. Okay, let's do some math! I'm excellent at it, studied it quite a bit along with physics. Shall we test my math skills? 1 + 1 = 4 Fuck! 

Haha, just kidding. I knew it was 3. 

4 sexually charged boards? 

1. Plus Size Paysite 
2. Weight Board 
3. Fat Sexuality
4. Erotic Weight Gain

I consider those 4 driven entirely about sex and forgive my rudeness, I didn't think anyone would disagree. Which would you argue with? Are you saying that 3 and 4 are a part of number 2? I don't want to argue semantics. Out of that list for most posts in a forum, those are the 4 about sex.

You're absolutely correct, I'm not looking at the number of posts per thread. Do you consider posts per thread a relevant number? Because even if it was, then you have to break down threads that are long, but only have a couple people in a discussion. 

See, a number I do think is highly relevant is viewing number on boards. The paysite board, from when I go online, always has the most people viewing. That's not quantified on here as a stat though, and always changes, so it's not reliable for me to use, but as an anacdotal point, it's interesting to look and think about. Recent Additions in the Library is also always very high. Two places that I feel are about sex.

You say the active membership is not here for porn. Are you using the previous definition of active = high post count? That's a point I agree with. But I don't think it's fair to say that the people who comment the most make up the majority of users. That wouldn't work if we're doing a study, which we're not and I don't really care about this argument that much anyway! Haha.  

Discussion and debate is the sole reason for forums, yes. But I wouldn't get too worked up into discussion in a verbal sense. Showing a picture and discussing that way I find acceptable and so do many others if you go by thread popularity it seems!  I wouldn't disavow it as an active means to enrich the community in any event. 

I didn't think so many of you guys and gals would be so adamantly opposed to me calling it a porn site in passing. Learn something new every day it seems. :happy:


----------



## Observer

Whether or not Dimensions is or is not a porn site is perhaps debatable - I would, however, point out that it is NOT intended to be. The part of the "posted rules" for the Library quoted below are words penned by Conrad, not myself - but I agree 100$ with them. The strict standards for the paysite board are to the same end. 



> *Sensuality, Sex and Pornography *- the desired emphasis of stories in the Dimensions collection should be on exploration and celebration of the large figure, and not on porn and such. No picture that ever appeared in Dimensions Magazine was ever explicit or even nude, and no story was ever pornographic. We tend to permit a good deal of creative leeway here in terms of magic, fantasy and even eroticism. However, if a story is explicit first and treats size as incidental, it probably falls into the category of being a different genre. There are plenty of outlets for erotic/explicit writing;and we do not need stories featuring hardcore pornography and graphic exploration of alternative lifestyles here.



I and other editors have refused a number of potential contributions for being too focused on sex - and deleted some that were here previously for having a tenuous if any relationship to weight. Part of the issue, of course, is what constitutes pornography, but certainly that was never my goal as either a writer or editor.


----------



## Holly-Marie

Santaclear, I think you may have been the only one who even tried to stay on the original issue.

I think we all agree the site has SOME porn. It does not matter how much.
Since it has - there is the need to see how to protect people from ... well not sure ... porn? Well at least those that we consider unfit to view it or who's reputation my be at stake. So lets get back to discussing *HOW not WHY*.



Santaclear said:


> Vader, Holly-Marie and other posters who are concerned about stories being "censored" etc.....
> 
> The main issue is that many Dimensions members don't want to be associated with any site that that could be construed as has having even the vaguest whiff of condoning child abuse or child porn, even in fantasy writing.
> 
> From a merely practical standpoint, some are teachers or work with kids, and any misunderstanding around this could jeopardize their work.



*Santaclear, if you are right than this would be an entirely different goal than what I considered the goal of those rules so far and an even more tricky one. *

If you just try to prevent a certain part of the population, from viewing certain things for their protection, than you just need to discuss where to draw the line and how sharp that line is.

What you state as the main reason for the new rules is to protect some thing that can hardly, if at all, be defined (honor, reputation ...). On the other hand those who come here want to view as much and as diverse a content as possible and yet want to be seen as spotless for viewing what they viewed.

The problem with this is: it depends on what a society considers OK and what not.

Lets take my background - the LGBT. Some people still have a problem with us. See it as unnatural against the wish of god (which one?). In some countries people are still imprisoned or killed for just being LGBT, which is NOT our free choice - we just need to decide how to deal with the fact that we are. Should we hide it and deny ourselves to make others feel better but jepartice our own emotional health or do we stand by what we feel?

So should all LGBT stuff be removed since it may reflect badly on some people if some one knew they come here and there is such stuff on the side?

This is ONE example and I'm sure I could find lots others you can identify better with like the whole FORCE feeding (against the others FREE will), XWG and so on. A lot of people even consider wanting to gain or to stay fat or just being attracted to fat unnatural or wrong. So this may already reflect badly on the viewers let alone posters of this site.
*
This argument is a VERY dangerous one and could lead to way more things removed than you would want to.*

From the rules that have been named, this does not seem to be the goal since they would not achieve that anyway.

However your post also points to another danger.

*Someone was surprised when I mentioned the EU being not far behind the US in "big brother" methods. *

As part of the Lisbon Contract (few are brave enough to call it EU Constitution - even though thats what it is supposed to be) the EU countries are to agree, to save and keep information about how people use the internet, in case they MAY do something criminal and this COULD be used to find the criminals.

An awfully lot of MIGHTs and COULDs in there or not?

This among other things was, why in countries where the people were allowed to vote on it, it was rejected. The oh so liberal GERMANY already agreed - on behalf of its people - to those rules. _The German gov did never trust its people to vote on their own Basic Law (Grundgesetz) to make it a constitution either ..._

Internet providers now have to keep records about who got what IP-address at what time and other information for quite a few months.

Now the two main parties of Germany discuss a coupe against child pornography. Sounds good, or not?

The providers are to be forced to stop access to any site that has child porn on it no matter if the user knew this or tried to access this part. If it has will be determent by a gov office. However you do not only get stopped to access such sites but your IP-address is locked and you can already prepare for your computer and home being searched for child porn in the next weeks, since you have become a potential pedophile and so criminal.

*I wonder if a site like Dims would be such a site, as it has been argued it may be. So where to draw the line?*

Personally I think that the Taliban achieved way more than they could have ever hoped for. Not because they are so smart, but because we are so dumb and play in their hands. They created so much fear that we are willing to give up what we hold most dear - our freedom. I should know I grew up in the GDR.

Ever since 9/11 our rights and freedoms in all kinds of areas have been reduced more and more. Some directly claimed to anti-terrorist measures some a bit more general. Still ever since then we started to accept having our rights cut shorter and shorter to be more save. 

*Remember what Benjamin Franklin said?

"Any society that would give up a little liberty
to gain a little security
will deserve neither and lose both."

What happens right now is what he meant by this!*

So please stop arguing about the details if this is a porn site or not and throwing numbers back and forth. Fact is the governments try to control more what is ok and what not in erotic, sex, porn as well - for our all protection.

So sooner or later SOMEONE WILL review this site and decide if it belongs on the black or the white list and if there is some dirt on it, it will be put on the black list - be assured of it. The question is of the users as well ...

So back to how to define rules that are clear and easy to understand and cover all goals they have to achieve without cutting into artistic freedom more than REALLY necessary.

-----

*I have yet to see an answer to the two scenarios I pointed out in the last post. Would they be ok and to what extent?*

*1.*
Lets assume the writer wants to do a story about a girl who has just turned 18 and who decided she wants to gain 50 or 100 lbs to feel right. She is the main character and 18+ so this is OK.
However she has a sister who is 16 and has a problem with her big sister doing this to herself. A big part of the story would come from the interaction of the two even if the baby sister never gains a pound. Is she a main character to? Is she a side character? How often could she be mentioned?

What if she would gain 5 pounds in the 2 years or so the story runs? Is she then sexualized and off limits? What gain would be the limit for that?

If both where over 18 they would most likely be both out of puberty so they would interact quite differently. It would not be the same story.

What if only the parents appeared but mentioned that the younger sister might be influenced badly by the behavior of the older sister? This would surely be in the interest of protecting children but would it meet the rules?

*2.*
A story about a mother of age 32 who gains. On first glance this is ok. However mother implies at least one child. If we assume a legal age for sex for the conception of the child this means the child is at best 14 so under age. Even if the child is absent throughout the story the "decision" of the mother to gain weight or just being heavy will effect the child in some way or another even if never mentioned in the story. Is this still ok?
What if the story runs for 5 years or more. The child suddenly appears in the story and gains weight for some reason or is fat. It may never have been mentioned but it is likely the mothers story had some kind of effect on the child. So is the story now of limits? What if it was broken into two stories? Would it make a difference if it was different chapters of the same story or two stories? With the current rules it may make a difference. The question then is if it should?


----------



## Vader7476

Anything in the Library can be constituted as pornography by definition of the word and what a lot of people go there for. 

It saddens me stories were removed for being too sexual and some were denied. Yet more lunacy it would seem. I'm beginning to think no one has any idea as to what the purpose of the site is, many of the rules make little to no sense.


----------



## Observer

Holly, although its no longer (by my choice - so please no shouting at Conrad) the call to make, the answer to your questions in my opinon wouud be as follows:

1. the first scenario under the new rules would cause the story to be declined, 

2. the scene portrayed in the second would likely be modified.​
That said, the "Big Brother" nanny issues you describe in the EU have never to my knowledge been a factor in the discussions here. America has no such constraints on purely textual materials. The choice of age limits are Conrad's, not the government's, and he has had pressure galore from all sides as to what the limits should be. 

He has settled on a strict 18 or more cut off point, which is his perogative and right. Enforcement will now be implemented as resources allow - but not because of "big brother." Please, while interesting in the abstract, let's not add factors that don't really apply.


----------



## Blackjack

Holly-Marie said:


> Personally I think that the Taliban achieved way more than they could have ever hoped for. Not because they are so smart, but because we are so dumb and play in their hands. They created so much fear that we are willing to give up what we hold most dear - our freedom. I should know I grew up in the GDR.
> 
> Ever since 9/11 our rights and freedoms in all kinds of areas have been reduced more and more. Some directly claimed to anti-terrorist measures some a bit more general. Still ever since then we started to accept having our rights cut shorter and shorter to be more save.



*IF I CAN'T FAP TO A HIGH SCHOOL FRESHMAN EATING HERSELF SICK AT A BUFFET THE TERRORISTS TRULY HAVE WON*


----------



## JoyJoy

Vader7476 said:


> Anything in the Library can be constituted as pornography by definition of the word and what a lot of people go there for.
> 
> It saddens me stories were removed for being too sexual and some were denied. Yet more lunacy it would seem. I'm beginning to think no one has any idea as to what the purpose of the site is, many of the rules make little to no sense.


I think the disconnect is that you're posting as if the way you view the site is the way everyone else should view it. It should be obvious that's not going to happen. You may use it as your porn, as do others, but many, many others do not, and given the rule quoted above by Observer, written by the creator of the site himself, it's intent is to not be pornographic. So those who are not here for porn have justification to speak up when something objectionable is posted, such as any hint of sexualization of children, for reasons mentioned by Santaclear (among others). 

Dimensions is what you make of it, so long as it falls within the webmaster's rules/intent, which don't have to make sense to you, you just have to follow them.


----------



## thatgirl08

JoyJoy said:


> I think the disconnect is that you're posting as if the way you view the site is the way everyone else should view it. It should be obvious that's not going to happen. You may use it as your porn, as do others, but many, many others do not, and given the rule quoted above by Observer, written by the creator of the site himself, it's intent is to not be pornographic. So those who are not here for porn have justification to speak up when something objectionable is posted, such as any hint of sexualization of children, for reasons mentioned by Santaclear (among others).
> 
> Dimensions is what you make of it, so long as it falls within the webmaster's rules/intent, which don't have to make sense to you, you just have to follow them.



Yes, this. Said so much more eloquently than I could've.


----------



## Vader7476

JoyJoy said:


> I think the disconnect is that you're posting as if the way you view the site is the way everyone else should view it. It should be obvious that's not going to happen. You may use it as your porn, as do others, but many, many others do not, and given the rule quoted above by Observer, written by the creator of the site himself, it's intent is to not be pornographic. So those who are not here for porn have justification to speak up when something objectionable is posted, such as any hint of sexualization of children, for reasons mentioned by Santaclear (among others).
> 
> Dimensions is what you make of it, so long as it falls within the webmaster's rules/intent, which don't have to make sense to you, you just have to follow them.



I freely acknowledge that anyone can view this site in any way they wish and that many don't come here for pornographic content. The argument was about how many of people do, and if I would define it as such. I think most do(I'm extremely sure of that point), and I would define it as a porn site. 

Actually, no one has justification to speak up. Conrad is the only one that matters. If he wanted a 21 age limit to sign up or make stories about or whatever, it's all him. If he wanted no rules at all, all him. He's pretty much said as much.

Ugh, and yet another person telling me that what Conrad says, goes. :doh:


----------



## thatgirl08

I'm equally sure most people don't.


----------



## Vader7476

*Looks at how many are looking at which boards*

Yeah, keep thinking that.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Im with Vader on this one, no matter how much anyone tries to dress this site up it is Pawg for adults but with better behaved members and less insults being throw around.

Now heres the dilema for members now 
If this site is a porn site then the 18 + only rule for the weight gain fiction rule could arguable stand 
If this is a size acceptance forum then no-where should it be 18+ it should be suitable for all ages and fiction should include characters of varied ages.

For me I think for literature the age of consent should be used as a better rule to allow characters from fair enough 18+ for the hardcore stuff but size acceptance if that is truely what this forum is for should be fo all ages not just adults.

Also seriously not everyone here is from the US 40% can constitue a majority in places and certain circumstances.

Finally look at the active areas, alot of places here are stagnating the literature section is updated quite a lot really for such a non essential forum, so if the censorship now is going to be no sexual acts size acceptance literatue only and 18+ characters only Im afaraid I'm calling for a writers strike on here.
I'll happily write either 18+ fairly erotic style stories or size acceptance stories but not limited to 18+ characters but to age of consent + characters. Im refusing point blank to write stories that arent sexual, have only 18+ characters and could go infront of a pannel of leading femenists and be allowed because other wise the story would be poor. The argument about sexulising women is undermined by the BHM stories really as both sexes are equally sexualisted or atleast given equal chance to be by authors.


----------



## JoyJoy

Dwavenhobble said:


> Im with Vader on this one, no matter how much anyone tries to dress this site up it is Pawg for adults but with better behaved members and less insults being throw around.


 There's no "dressing up". It is what it is for the individual. If you choose to spend your time on the site with one hand between your legs that's your choice, but a fair number of us don't. And AGAIN...the OWNER of the site has said the intent is NOT pornography. Argue 'til your parts fall off, but there it is. 



Dwavenhobble said:


> Now heres the dilema for members now
> If this site is a porn site then the 18 + only rule for the weight gain fiction rule could arguable stand
> If this is a size acceptance forum then no-where should it be 18+ it should be suitable for all ages and fiction should include characters of varied ages.
> 
> For me I think for literature the age of consent should be used as a better rule to allow characters from fair enough 18+ for the hardcore stuff but size acceptance if that is truely what this forum is for should be fo all ages not just adults.
> 
> Also seriously not everyone here is from the US 40% can constitue a majority in places and certain circumstances.



This is an ADULT site, not all ADULT sites are "pornographic"..just not appropriate for "underage" persons. Also, the site's owner resides in the US. Age of consent in the state in which he resides is 18, as it is in the majority of the US. If you owned a site where you had to make a call such as this one, it would make the most sense to base it on your own location and not the locations of the multitudes that would frequent your site, because it would be impossible to please everyone, as evidenced by this thread. 



Dwavenhobble said:


> Finally look at the active areas, alot of places here are stagnating the literature section is updated quite a lot really for such a non essential forum, so if the censorship now is going to be no sexual acts size acceptance literatue only and 18+ characters only Im afaraid I'm calling for a writers strike on here.
> I'll happily write either 18+ fairly erotic style stories or size acceptance stories but not limited to 18+ characters but to age of consent + characters. Im refusing point blank to write stories that arent sexual, have only 18+ characters and could go infront of a pannel of leading femenists and be allowed because other wise the story would be poor. The argument about sexulising women is undermined by the BHM stories really as both sexes are equally sexualisted or atleast given equal chance to be by authors.


Wait...seriously? You're giving ultimatums? You're going on strike? Wow, Mr. Dickens...Dimensions as we know it will never be the same again without your stories. What is the world coming to? 

Honestly, though...who are you?


----------



## Observer

Sorry Dwavenhobble but strikes don't work that way. Especially if you start out by characterizing the entire library as a "non-essential" part of the Dimensions community.

Strikes are a bludgeon that only work where you can inflict damage on someone if they don't accept your demands. Since only a minority of writers are concerned about your position or write stories with underage characters a strike would only succeed in withholding from submission stories of the type that are not desired anyway. Some strike!

Secondly, if you think the library forums are non-essential, then why so much passion? I happen to feel that weight related stories, especially those with a size acceptance theme, do have a role in the Dimensions community. That is the premise from which I (and others) started writing such fiction. It is certainly why I helped build the Dimensions Library. When you call it "non-essential" you are actually supporting the position of some of its most severe critics. 

Every FA, including Conrad and myself, understands the underlying point you and Vadar are trying to make. There is a vacuum when it comes to the awareness of gender and size that begins before puberty for those who are FAs BHMs, and BBWs and ends some time after high school. Such teens are made to feel guilty with all the prejudices and biases. Many are poorly socialized, often afraid to start dating because we are bigger or like those who are. 

I know this because I was such a person - and began writing WR fiction with the goal of easing the path for teens today. But unfortunately in a place like Dimensions there are those who feel such stories cannot help but be "sexualizing" to FA's and FFA's. Let's be realistic - they're is a sense right - in the same sense as the articles and literature directed at traditional teens in their bikinis and briefs. 

Is such underage literature universally and always "exploitive pedophilia?" or pornographic? Or does it only become so when teenage BBW's BHMs or FAs/ZFFAs are involved? Of course not! I have written stories with underage characters that were posted to the Weight Board in the 'nineties - and there is nothing sexual about them. They are targeted at saying "here is a story you can relate to" to a teen audience.
. 
All of this is true - and none of it matters. Because there are those who sincerely believe that teens shouldn't be reading such stories in a library here because this is an "adult" site. And as we have seen, they can stir up a considerable ruckus.

The stories with underage characters, both teen soap operas, romances and size acceptance tales are not "banned" and gone forever just because they are not here. They're now just going to be a little harder to find - on Yahoo, Curvage, Fantasy Feeder, DA or individual sites. Teens who find this library first via Google will find out about the other sites quickly enough from threads like this one.

Meanwhile all writers are free to continue displaying our non-teen protagonist stories here. I’m not asking to have mine pulled &#8211; nor is anyone else that I’m aware of (btw such deletions would be against site policy anyway). And when I do new ones that qualify I intend to contribute them. Hopefully you will do the same.


----------



## Wagimawr

Dwavenhobble said:


> it is Pawg for adults


You.

Get the fuck out.

Right now.


----------



## Blackjack

Dwavenhobble said:


> no matter how much anyone tries to dress this site up it is Pawg for adults but with better behaved members and less insults being throw around.



You know, I'm not even sure that it's _possible _for you to be more wrong.


----------



## Vader7476

JoyJoy said:


> There's no "dressing up". It is what it is for the individual. If you choose to spend your time on the site with one hand between your legs that's your choice, but a fair number of us don't. And AGAIN...the OWNER of the site has said the intent is NOT pornography. Argue 'til your parts fall off, but there it is.



I seriously hope you just brain farted there. The owner of the site could say the site is about lolipops and cell phones plans, but that clearly means nothing at all. You have to look at the content. Pornography is on the site and is accepted here. There's an entire forum dedicated to models' sites which are unarguably pornographic. Perhaps his intention isn't for people to masturbate when they come to Dimensions, but they do. Now, before you say what you're going to say about what you do here and that there are non pornographic parts to the site, I'll stop you by saying that I know this well.





JoyJoy said:


> This is an ADULT site, not all ADULT sites are "pornographic"..just not appropriate for "underage" persons. Also, the site's owner resides in the US. Age of consent in the state in which he resides is 18, as it is in the majority of the US. If you owned a site where you had to make a call such as this one, it would make the most sense to base it on your own location and not the locations of the multitudes that would frequent your site, because it would be impossible to please everyone, as evidenced by this thread.



It's already been well established this site is definitely of a prurient nature, and it follows to reason that even if only as a bi-product, yeah, pornographic. However, out of curiosity, what sites(websites) are adult only that aren't pornographic?


----------



## Dwavenhobble

JoyJoy said:


> This is an ADULT site, not all ADULT sites are "pornographic"..just not appropriate for "underage" persons. Also, the site's owner resides in the US. Age of consent in the state in which he resides is 18, as it is in the majority of the US


Actually Majority US consent laws are 16 
http://www.avert.org/age-of-consent.htm

Adult + size acceptance doesnt really mix either the message is for any age really or its an adult site. I dont think Ive ever been on an adult site with such strict no pink rules, no sex talk rules etc.




JoyJoy said:


> Wait...seriously? You're giving ultimatums? You're going on strike? Wow, Mr. Dickens...Dimensions as we know it will never be the same again without your stories. What is the world coming to?


Odd because one writer on strike might change nothing but by the looks of this thread im not the only writer a bit annoyed here especially the lack of clarity on the new rules and our work being pulled without notice, heck I wouldnt be surprised if its gone permanently now. Rules can only be applied if they are published to begin with, no-one here can be expected to comply with rules that arent posted.

Also I think this is proving how much like Pawg this forum is.



JoyJoy said:


> Honestly, though...who are you?


The guy who laughed while Pawg burned


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Observer said:


> Sorry Dwavenhobble but strikes don't work that way. Especially if you start out by characterizing the entire library as a "non-essential" part of the Dimensions community.


Actually the non essential I was using ironically. 



Observer said:


> Strikes are a bludgeon that only work where you can inflict damage on someone if they don't accept your demands. Since only a minority of writers are concerned about your position or write stories with underage characters a strike would only succeed in withholding from submission stories of the type that are not desired anyway. Some strike!


Actually judging by the people here it woud be all kinds of stories hit, what Im calling for action on is clarification of the rules and some kind of notcie to the writers with affected work, you know telling them why their content went, or where it went. Im suggesting the strike as a last attempt to get answers, i know plenty of people write for here but alot of stories were pulled and I doubt Im the only writer here who didnt get a any word of his stories being pulled.



Observer said:


> Every FA, including Conrad and myself, understands the underlying point you and Vadar are trying to make. There is a vacuum when it comes to the awareness of gender and size that begins before puberty for those who are FAs BHMs, and BBWs and ends some time after high school. Such teens are made to feel guilty with all the prejudices and biases. Many are poorly socialized, often afraid to start dating because we are bigger or like those who are.
> 
> I know this because I was such a person - and began writing WR fiction with the goal of easing the path for teens today. But unfortunately in a place like Dimensions there are those who feel such stories cannot help but be "sexualizing" to FA's and FFA's. Let's be realistic - they're is a sense right - in the same sense as the articles and literature directed at traditional teens in their bikinis and briefs.


Well this site cant really be an acceptance site it has to be more of a porn site. Because underage characters are in the stories does that mean suddely because of it all teens will mysteriously start doing things mentioned in the stories or is it just a case of people realising its happening already and not liking dealing with what is happening with or without the stories.



Observer said:


> Is such underage literature universally and always "exploitive pedophilia?" or pornographic? Or does it only become so when teenage BBW's BHMs or FAs/ZFFAs are involved? Of course not! I have written stories with underage characters that were posted to the Weight Board in the 'nineties - and there is nothing sexual about them. They are targeted at saying "here is a story you can relate to" to a teen audience.
> .
> All of this is true - and none of it matters. Because there are those who sincerely believe that teens shouldn't be reading such stories in a library here because this is an "adult" site. And as we have seen, they can stir up a considerable ruckus.


So they will turn to Pawg read some trash from their (not meaning anything here is trash but seriously the stuff pawg) and does any-one here really want the next generation being in that environment (heck I wish I didnt start there)



Observer said:


> The stories with underage characters, both teen soap operas, romances and size acceptance tales are not "banned" and gone forever just because they are not here. They're now just going to be a little harder to find - on Yahoo, Curvage, Fantasy Feeder, DA or individual sites. Teens who find this library first via Google will find out about the other sites quickly enough from threads like this one.


But wont this kill the library here ?



Observer said:


> Meanwhile all writers are free to continue displaying our non-teen protagonist stories here. Im not asking to have mine pulled  nor is anyone else that Im aware of (btw such deletions would be against site policy anyway). And when I do new ones that qualify I intend to contribute them. Hopefully you will do the same.


Hold on site policy should cover the whole site, if something breaks the rules they are normally retrospectively applied otherwise all the presently removed stories shouldnt have been removed either because they were posted before the rule change.


----------



## katorade

Dwavenhobble said:


> .......
> 
> 
> *Well this site cant really be an acceptance site it has to be more of a porn site.* Because underage characters are in the stories does that mean suddely because of it all teens will mysteriously start doing things mentioned in the stories or is it just a case of people realising its happening already and not liking dealing with what is happening with or without the stories.
> 
> 
> *So they will turn to Pawg read some trash from their (not meaning anything here is trash but seriously the stuff pawg) and does any-one here really want the next generation being in that environment (heck I wish I didnt start there)
> 
> 
> But wont this kill the library here ?*
> 
> 
> Hold on site policy should cover the whole site, if something breaks the rules they are normally retrospectively applied otherwise all the presently removed stories shouldnt have been removed either because they were *posted before the rule change*.




Why does it HAVE to be a porn site? This is an adult site that happens to have content of a sexual, NOT pornographic nature. There is no blatant nudity allowed on the paysite boards, paysite girls are not allowed their ads in signatures outside of the paysite boards, etc. I could spend 6 hours on this website and not read one thread related to porn. As a matter of fact, I come here every day and rarely do I read any content of a sexual nature. That in itself is enough to make it not a porn site.

You are way too tied up in this Pawg shit. 

Why would it matter if it killed the library? According to you this is a porn site, not a Borders book store. What would it matter?

The rules did not change, the rules were clarified. Also, it is well within the owner's rights to amend any situations he deems inappropriate.




Seriously, this all sounds less like a politics struggle and more like whining that _your_ stories got pulled. I'm sure you can think of something else to write besides characters under 18. If not, just go post on Pawg.


----------



## Vader7476

katorade said:


> Why does it HAVE to be a porn site? This is an adult site that happens to have content of a sexual, NOT pornographic nature. There is no blatant nudity allowed on the paysite boards, paysite girls are not allowed their ads in signatures outside of the paysite boards, etc. I could spend 6 hours on this website and not read one thread related to porn. As a matter of fact, I come here every day and rarely do I read any content of a sexual nature. That in itself is enough to make it not a porn site.



It doesn't have to be a porn site. But why is everyone so adamant that it isn't? Clarifying what type of site Dims is, would that honestly change anyone's opinion about it? I certainly don't care and wouldn't stop coming here, and imagine that most of you that don't look at the porn stuff also would still continue to come here. 

This site has pornographic nature. Do not, I repeat, do not fool yourself into thinking otherwise. Pornography by definition is about sexual excitement. Since many here find fat people and weight gain attractive and sexually stimulating, stories and photographs are most assuredly pornographic for those individuals. That's what the fetish is. This isn't a vanilla site, where thin girls baring all and showing all is what the people here want. They want the fat admiration. 

For an example, some people do use Victoria's Secret catalogues as a way to masturbate, thus making it a porn mag for those that do. I'm not saying that that magazine is a porn mag for a lot of reasons, but rather what I'm getting at is that porn is up to the ones that use it really. Look at artistic nudes, obviously full nudity, but not by definition pornographic. 

With that in mind, there's no way you could really deny that it's a porn site. At the very least, everyone has to admit there is porn on this site whether you want to admit that's the intent or not is irrelevant. Same for being able to come here and not look at anything pornographic. I could go onto a hardcore anything goes porn site, and not look at any porn for 30 days. What one uses this site for and how closed off they keep themselves does nothing to change what they don't read. You can't claim ignorance defines the site then. You can't turn your back, close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears, and yell at the top of your lungs and declare anything you want about the world. 

You don't look at the sexual stuff on this site? Fine. That doesn't mean it's not there, and you certainly can't say that it doesn't define the site. It does a disservice to yourself.

Hopefully this post made sense. I probably made many mistakes in it, but I'm tired and have been up for quite a while with little sleep. Good night all.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

katorade said:


> Why does it HAVE to be a porn site? This is an adult site that happens to have content of a sexual, NOT pornographic nature. There is no blatant nudity allowed on the paysite boards, paysite girls are not allowed their ads in signatures outside of the paysite boards, etc. I could spend 6 hours on this website and not read one thread related to porn. As a matter of fact, I come here every day and rarely do I read any content of a sexual nature. That in itself is enough to make it not a porn site.
> 
> You are way too tied up in this Pawg shit.
> 
> Why would it matter if it killed the library? According to you this is a porn site, not a Borders book store. What would it matter?
> 
> The rules did not change, the rules were clarified. Also, it is well within the owner's rights to amend any situations he deems inappropriate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, this all sounds less like a politics struggle and more like whining that _your_ stories got pulled. I'm sure you can think of something else to write besides characters under 18. If not, just go post on Pawg.


I think you missed party of my point here. If you saying writing under 18 characters promotes pedophillia then your saying that stories posted before the new rules containning under 18 or in some cases under 16 main characters can stay. It doesnt make sense to have the rules apply to new submissions and not to old ones, also the rules werent clarified that havent been clarified yet, they have been modified, so either all stories have to abide by new rules or no stories have to abide by them, rather than this half arsed application of them thats happening t the moment.

You say you dont want under 18's in stories then all including classic stories have to be brought under the new rule otherwise the under 18 stuff will still be here it will just be new writers have to work to more strict rules which could well impact the quality of the stories and even discount many previous classic themes.

Basically Im calling for equality in the library with all stories being subjected to the same rules new or old as I dont see how new stories with under 18 characters being banned and old stories with under 18 characters being allowed to stay up shows that the site doesnt support pedophillia, the content is still there.

Also Im arguing over if this is a size acceptance forum or if its not that as if its truly about acceptance I see no problem with age of consent characters being in stories but if were calling this a sexual content site then 18 + characters are fine.

The final lost point Im bringing up again is if you want to protect children this whole site requires a porn site style entracne thing and warning because at the moment you can easily view anyting here other than the attached pictures on the boards heck theres even a link to The Studio's works with bare nipples and all.


----------



## katorade

Vader7476 said:


> It doesn't have to be a porn site. But why is everyone so adamant that it isn't? Clarifying what type of site Dims is, would that honestly change anyone's opinion about it? I certainly don't care and wouldn't stop coming here, and imagine that most of you that don't look at the porn stuff also would still continue to come here.
> 
> This site has pornographic nature. Do not, I repeat, do not fool yourself into thinking otherwise. Pornography by definition is about sexual excitement. Since many here find fat people and weight gain attractive and sexually stimulating, stories and photographs are most assuredly pornographic for those individuals. That's what the fetish is. This isn't a vanilla site, where thin girls baring all and showing all is what the people here want. They want the fat admiration.
> 
> For an example, some people do use Victoria's Secret catalogues as a way to masturbate, thus making it a porn mag for those that do. I'm not saying that that magazine is a porn mag for a lot of reasons, but rather what I'm getting at is that porn is up to the ones that use it really. Look at artistic nudes, obviously full nudity, but not by definition pornographic.
> 
> With that in mind, there's no way you could really deny that it's a porn site. At the very least, everyone has to admit there is porn on this site whether you want to admit that's the intent or not is irrelevant. Same for being able to come here and not look at anything pornographic. I could go onto a hardcore anything goes porn site, and not look at any porn for 30 days. What one uses this site for and how closed off they keep themselves does nothing to change what they don't read. You can't claim ignorance defines the site then. You can't turn your back, close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears, and yell at the top of your lungs and declare anything you want about the world.
> 
> You don't look at the sexual stuff on this site? Fine. That doesn't mean it's not there, and you certainly can't say that it doesn't define the site. It does a disservice to yourself.
> 
> Hopefully this post made sense. I probably made many mistakes in it, but I'm tired and have been up for quite a while with little sleep. Good night all.



I don't think _we're_ the ones in denial. I'll stop arguing the point when you do, how 'bout that? This site is as much a porn site as it isn't. Also, comparing Dims to VS is pretty shoddy. Just because it's used as spank fodder does NOT mean it's pornographic in nature. Just because someone finds something sexually arousing does not mean it's pornographic in nature. Some whackjob out there could be wanking it to Judy Blume books, does that instantly make them erotic literature? 

The sexuality on this site is the basic cable of erotica. No nipples, no genitals, no blatant sexual acts. You might see a butt crack now and again, but even on a major broadcasting network you can see Dennis Franz' hinder and watch people engage in sexual acts in nearly every TV drama. I would be hard pressed to call anything accepted on this website as pornography.



Dwavenhobble said:


> I think you missed party of my point here. If you saying writing under 18 characters promotes pedophillia then your saying that stories posted before the new rules containning under 18 or in some cases under 16 main characters can stay. It doesnt make sense to have the rules apply to new submissions and not to old ones, also the rules werent clarified that havent been clarified yet, they have been modified, so either all stories have to abide by new rules or no stories have to abide by them, rather than this half arsed application of them thats happening t the moment.
> 
> You say you dont want under 18's in stories then all including classic stories have to be brought under the new rule otherwise the under 18 stuff will still be here it will just be new writers have to work to more strict rules which could well impact the quality of the stories and even discount many previous classic themes.
> 
> Basically Im calling for equality in the library with all stories being subjected to the same rules new or old as I dont see how new stories with under 18 characters being banned and old stories with under 18 characters being allowed to stay up shows that the site doesnt support pedophillia, the content is still there.
> 
> Also Im arguing over if this is a size acceptance forum or if its not that as if its truly about acceptance I see no problem with age of consent characters being in stories but if were calling this a sexual content site then 18 + characters are fine.
> 
> The final lost point Im bringing up again is if you want to protect children this whole site requires a porn site style entracne thing and warning because at the moment you can easily view anyting here other than the attached pictures on the boards heck theres even a link to The Studio's works with bare nipples and all.



I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about for most of this post, but to address the issue of some stories getting covered and some not, this site is moderated by users who volunteer their time, and there are not enough of them to easily keep up with submissions. If you have an issue with people squeaking by, why not volunteer some of your time and do a little armchair moderating and report an issue when you see one?


----------



## Blackjack

Dwavenhobble said:


> I think you missed party of my point here. If you saying writing under 18 characters promotes pedophillia then your saying that stories posted before the new rules containning under 18 or in some cases under 16 main characters can stay. It doesnt make sense to have the rules apply to new submissions and not to old ones, also the rules werent clarified that havent been clarified yet, they have been modified, so either all stories have to abide by new rules or no stories have to abide by them, rather than this half arsed application of them thats happening t the moment.



So your issue is with the fact that not every story has been checked yet to see if they comply with a rule that's only recently being more strictly enforced? There's thousands of stories here, you realize. It's not going to happen overnight.



> You say you dont want under 18's in stories then all including classic stories have to be brought under the new rule otherwise the under 18 stuff will still be here it will just be new writers have to work to more strict rules which could well impact the quality of the stories and even discount many previous classic themes.



If the quality of your story is so heavily impacted by the age of your protagonists that a couple of years makes that much of a difference, it likely isn't that great a story to begin with.



> Basically Im calling for equality in the library with all stories being subjected to the same rules new or old as I dont see how new stories with under 18 characters being banned and old stories with under 18 characters being allowed to stay up shows that the site doesnt support pedophillia, the content is still there.



In the past, when stories have been pointed out to have underage protagonists, they've been pulled. Although it could be argued that they shouldn't have gotten past whatever filters in the first place, it's not as though the complaints were ignored. This isn't anything new, it's just a stricter enforcing of an already-present rule.



> Also Im arguing over if this is a size acceptance forum or if its not that as if its *truly about acceptance *I see no problem with age of consent characters being in stories but if were calling this a sexual content site then 18 + characters are fine.







> The final lost point Im bringing up again is if you want to protect children this whole site requires a porn site style entracne thing and warning because at the moment you can easily view anyting here other than the attached pictures on the boards heck theres even a link to The Studio's works with bare nipples and all.



You can go and see nudity on DeviantArt. I don't see any sort of a "porn site style entrance thing" there.


----------



## Vader7476

katorade said:


> I don't think _we're_ the ones in denial. I'll stop arguing the point when you do, how 'bout that? This site is as much a porn site as it isn't. Also, comparing Dims to VS is pretty shoddy. Just because it's used as spank fodder does NOT mean it's pornographic in nature. Just because someone finds something sexually arousing does not mean it's pornographic in nature. Some whackjob out there could be wanking it to Judy Blume books, does that instantly make them erotic literature?
> 
> The sexuality on this site is the basic cable of erotica. No nipples, no genitals, no blatant sexual acts. You might see a butt crack now and again, but even on a major broadcasting network you can see Dennis Franz' hinder and watch people engage in sexual acts in nearly every TV drama. I would be hard pressed to call anything accepted on this website as pornography.



Oh, it's not about denial, it's about ignorance. Although you do say that Dims is as much a porn site as it isn't, so maybe it is denial. Regardless, it certainly isn't me, I assure you. 

You'll stop arguing the point? I wish you would start arguing the point. No one on here has made any kind of decent argument for why this site can't be considered pornographic. 

This site has porn on it. It caters to a fetish for crying out loud! It's adult only. How do these things lead you down the path that this site is family friendly? If you had a overweight family member would you tell them about this site? Would you tell them if they were underage? What would you describe the site as being? Would you gloss over the porn?

You missed the point of that example. It wasn't comparing Dims to VS directly, it was explaining how pornography and nudity aren't synonymous. Thus, nudity or not, something can be pornographic. It also should be noted that intercourse by pure definition is not considered pornographic. It then is sexual. Pornographic applies more to the before. Although that's really a more semantical argument and often the terms get used interchangeably.

Is VS pornographic? No, it is not. Is Judy Blume? No. For obvious reasons they aren't pornographic. Dims, however, by even your own admission, is at the very least on the threshold. 

You not accepting things on this site as being pornographic is either a flat out lie, or blissful ignorance. There are stories on this site that detail sex, the erotic, the gaining of weight, and sexual stimulation. Erotic literature is pornography, that's what the library is. There is an entire board dedicated to fat sexuality and erotic weight gain. It's in the title of it! How would you dismiss that as not entirely devoted to the fetish? This site allows a HC porn site to make topic and advertise their new content, and talk with members. That entire forum, the most viewed and the most threaded, is nothing but porn, where to get it, how to make it better, and what type it is. 

Maybe your hangup is that you're thinking only hardcore fucking is pornographic. It is not. Porn doesn't need to be that, or even visual to be effective. Some of the most erotic things out there can be audio, like Seinfeld and the recorded message on his tape recorder. Haha. Soft-Core or glamour can be clothed.

To me this argument is kind of like this. Think of Dims as a virtual playboy, or hustler, or whatever. You're saying, yeah, there's porn in there, but the rest is articles and humor and games, so it's not a porn magazine. 

This is a fat fetish site. From what I understand of BDSM, it's not the nudity that's the turn on, it's being bound, or the submissive or dominant. Same with this fetish, it's about bulges over clothes, non fitting clothes, weight gain, etc.


----------



## Vader7476

Blackjack said:


> If the quality of your story is so heavily impacted by the age of your protagonists that a couple of years makes that much of a difference, it likely isn't that great a story to begin with.



Just to chime in a bit. I do think you're partially right that the quality shouldn't change based on age, but I want to note that the differences in a story between a high school senior, and a college freshman are too vast for anyone to type. Both of them can be 18. That's not even with an age difference, and already the stories are nothing alike. If we take it down a couple years, to 16, things change as well. The difference between a high school student at 16 and one at 18, may not seem huge at a glance, but there is a difference that any good writer notes. It's then you have to think about intelligence, emotions, experience and new experiences, and the list goes on and on. The older character is almost always going to be more mature, and as a senior going through different situations and settings than a 16 year old. In the US, 18 year olds can be depicted in pornography, smoke, go to war, and vote. 

So yeah, if you want to write about a 16 or 18 or whatever, you should make them both as high quality as you can, but they're going to be a different story. The point I think Dwavenhobble was trying to make is that if you write that the protagonist is 16 and submit it, and she gets changed to 18, that could have a large impact on the story. The solution is then easy, don't write about 16 year olds if you're going to submit to Dimensions.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

katorade said:


> I don't think _we're_ the ones in denial. I'll stop arguing the point when you do, how 'bout that? This site is as much a porn site as it isn't. Also, comparing Dims to VS is pretty shoddy. Just because it's used as spank fodder does NOT mean it's pornographic in nature. Just because someone finds something sexually arousing does not mean it's pornographic in nature. Some whackjob out there could be wanking it to Judy Blume books, does that instantly make them erotic literature?
> 
> The sexuality on this site is the basic cable of erotica. No nipples, no genitals, no blatant sexual acts. You might see a butt crack now and again, but even on a major broadcasting network you can see Dennis Franz' hinder and watch people engage in sexual acts in nearly every TV drama. I would be hard pressed to call anything accepted on this website as pornography.
> 
> 
> 
> I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about for most of this post, but to address the issue of some stories getting covered and some not, this site is moderated by users who volunteer their time, and there are not enough of them to easily keep up with submissions. If you have an issue with people squeaking by, why not volunteer some of your time and do a little armchair moderating and report an issue when you see one?



well sorry but 9 till 6pm of work plus additional reading and other work means I have very little free time as it is, and unless they want mods that can only mod very little Im sure they'd be fine with it .

Also archived material in the old stories section has no report button


----------



## katorade

Vader7476 said:


> Oh, it's not about denial, it's about ignorance. Although you do say that Dims is as much a porn site as it isn't, so maybe it is denial. Regardless, it certainly isn't me, I assure you.
> 
> You'll stop arguing the point? I wish you would start arguing the point. No one on here has made any kind of decent argument for why this site can't be considered pornographic.


Plenty of people have made good arguments, you've just had your fingers in your ears yelling "no no no no no!" for the past week. Nobody here has said this thread can't be considered pornographic at all, we're saying it is not considered to be or promoted as a pornography site. Material of a pornographic nature is not allowed on the MAJORITY of the boards and is relegated to a select chunk, which is also heavily moderated as to be very, verrrrrrrrry soft-core, if you could call it porn at all.



> This site has porn on it. It caters to a fetish for crying out loud! It's adult only. How do these things lead you down the path that this site is family friendly? If you had a overweight family member would you tell them about this site? Would you tell them if they were underage? What would you describe the site as being? Would you gloss over the porn?


I don't have any overweight family members that I'm close to or that I think would be interested, but I have indeed told other women and men that I think would be about Dimensions, and not for the sexual reasons, but for the support system I have experienced here and to see that not everyone hates fat. I have gone so far as to tell them there are a couple of sections dedicated to the fetish side, but they're easily ignored and not in your face, minus the banners. I do have a best friend that likes chubby guys and I told her about the FFA board here so she could realize she wasn't alone. I met my boyfriend on this website, and neither of us have any interest in a fat fetish. I don't have any friends underage, so that doesn't help. Any of my friends would tell you that I am not an openly sexual person and that I verge on being a prude, so the endorsement for this site is completely anti-prurient.
 


> You missed the point of that example. It wasn't comparing Dims to VS directly, it was explaining how pornography and nudity aren't synonymous. Thus, nudity or not, something can be pornographic. It also should be noted that intercourse by pure definition is not considered pornographic. It then is sexual. Pornographic applies more to the before. Although that's really a more semantical argument and often the terms get used interchangeably.


It IS semantics, and the problem here is that everyone you think is "wrong" is just arguing the other, equally as arguable, side.



> Is VS pornographic? No, it is not. Is Judy Blume? No. For obvious reasons they aren't pornographic. Dims, however, by even your own admission, is at the very least on the threshold.
> 
> You not accepting things on this site as being pornographic is either a flat out lie, or blissful ignorance. There are stories on this site that detail sex, the erotic, the gaining of weight, and sexual stimulation. Erotic literature is pornography, that's what the library is. There is an entire board dedicated to fat sexuality and erotic weight gain. It's in the title of it! How would you dismiss that as not entirely devoted to the fetish? This site allows a HC porn site to make topic and advertise their new content, and talk with members. That entire forum, the most viewed and the most threaded, is nothing but porn, where to get it, how to make it better, and what type it is.


I am on a lot of other forums that are adult only because the material content is deemed not appropriate for children, not because of a pornographic nature, but because it's _adult_ in nature.You do know there's a difference, right? Some of them feel that an 18+ rule is necessary simply because there's strong language. I am on another website that has several separate sub-forums of a truly pornographic nature where you can see hardcore pictures or videos (one for the girls AND the guys each), a literotica forum, and un-moderated forum for extreme content, one for anonymous confessions which are typically of a strong sexual nature, and even one for those into the BDSM scene.

By your definition the site would be considered a porn site, _and_ it started out as one as a dumping ground for pornographic content from another family-friendly site. However, neither the patrons of the site or the owners currently think of the site as a pornography site because of the community of friendships that developed. It is a lifestyle site that addresses all aspects of a person's life, INCLUDING their sexuality, as vanilla or deviant it may be. It also had a majority percentage of lurkers that were only there to browse the "NWS" sections, but the members and owners all agreed that if you didn't contribute, then you had no privileges, and the boards were locked and all lurkers with less than 10 posts in the last year were purged. To gain or regain entry now, you have to have someone invite or vouch for you. You simply have to fit in with the vibe of the forums to get the *bonus* of seeing the porn. The heart of the place, however, is in the community.



> Maybe your hangup is that you're thinking only hardcore fucking is pornographic. It is not. Porn doesn't need to be that, or even visual to be effective. Some of the most erotic things out there can be audio, like Seinfeld and the recorded message on his tape recorder. Haha. Soft-Core or glamour can be clothed.
> 
> To me this argument is kind of like this. Think of Dims as a virtual playboy, or hustler, or whatever. You're saying, yeah, there's porn in there, but the rest is articles and humor and games, so it's not a porn magazine.
> 
> This is a fat fetish site. From what I understand of BDSM, it's not the nudity that's the turn on, it's being bound, or the submissive or dominant. Same with this fetish, it's about bulges over clothes, non fitting clothes, weight gain, etc.


The fetish nature of this website does not necessarily mean it's pornographic, the same way the fetish nature of BDSM does not necessarily mean it's pornographic. Pictures of someone bound, or in a rubber body suit are erotic/sexual in nature, but by LAW, which is the aspect we are discussing here given the 18+ argument, they are not of pornographic nature. You could argue that by definition they are because they are depictions meant to arouse you, BUT not everyone finds it to be at all sexually attractive, just as many people do not find material you can find here to be sexually attractive. 

That's like saying that because there's a sizable chunk of people that are sexually aroused by feet, that feet should be considered sexual in nature. Of course they can be sexual in nature, but they are hardly pornographic. For many here, watching a woman eat is sexual, that doesn't make it porn. Belly rubbing is sexual, doesn't make it porn. Weighing and measuring is sexually gratifying, doesn't make it porn. I could go on for hours.

Just because this board chooses to contain material of adult nature and display sexual freedoms does NOT make it pornography.


----------



## katorade

Dwavenhobble said:


> well sorry but 9 till 6pm of work plus additional reading and other work means I have very little free time as it is, and unless they want mods that can only mod very little Im sure they'd be fine with it .
> 
> Also archived material in the old stories section has no report button



If you don't want to help, then you have no room to whine. Also, if it's that important to you, I don't think it's that difficult to go a little above and beyond clicking a button and, I dunno, PMing a mod? You obviously have enough free time to write stories, so I don't think a couple of extra minutes would matter.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

katorade said:


> If you don't want to help, then you have no room to whine. Also, if it's that important to you, I don't think it's that difficult to go a little above and beyond clicking a button and, I dunno, PMing a mod? You obviously have enough free time to write stories, so I don't think a couple of extra minutes would matter.


I'll help but seriously 9 till 6 pm working then i have to read up and write up lab forms etc plus other activities I think I get 2 hours free a day when Im not meant to be doing anything so Im sorry if I dont want to give what little free time I have to moderating a forum when i could actually be relaxing.
Also if youd realised its taken me about 1 and a half years to write Amber 4.7 and it was only thanks to a lighter workload I managed to finish it.


----------



## Santaclear

The same argument could be made that Dimensions is primarily a whining site.


----------



## Vader7476

katorade said:


> Plenty of people have made good arguments, you've just had your fingers in your ears yelling "no no no no no!" for the past week. Nobody here has said this thread can't be considered pornographic at all, we're saying it is not considered to be or promoted as a pornography site. Material of a pornographic nature is not allowed on the MAJORITY of the boards and is relegated to a select chunk, which is also heavily moderated as to be very, verrrrrrrrry soft-core, if you could call it porn at all.



There hasn't been one argument other than, "That's not how I view the site!" Which is a terribly weak argument, it's an argument of ignorance of the highest level. 

Promotion and intent matter very little. I've already said this. You can claim and intend anything, but how it's perceived is what matters. 

And here you totally blow up your entire argument. You can't claim there is pornographic material on here and then say the site isn't of a pornographic nature. That's ridiculous. And the majority of boards has NO meaning. What does matter is what the biggest and most viewed are, which have been well established as pornographic. Unless you'd again like to use the idiocy of "that's now how I view it!"



katorade said:


> I don't have any overweight family members that I'm close to or that I think would be interested, but I have indeed told other women and men that I think would be about Dimensions, and not for the sexual reasons, but for the support system I have experienced here and to see that not everyone hates fat. I have gone so far as to tell them there are a couple of sections dedicated to the fetish side, but they're easily ignored and not in your face, minus the banners. I do have a best friend that likes chubby guys and I told her about the FFA board here so she could realize she wasn't alone. I met my boyfriend on this website, and neither of us have any interest in a fat fetish. I don't have any friends underage, so that doesn't help. Any of my friends would tell you that I am not an openly sexual person and that I verge on being a prude, so the endorsement for this site is completely anti-prurient.
> ]



Your boyfriend doesn't have a fat fetish? Why did he come to this site then, and why does he find you sexually appealing? Because if he does find you sexy, and likes larger women, he's got a fat fetish.

And again, you agree there are fetish aspects and pornographic aspects to the site. And you definitely are aware of them and had to warn friends about them. That says more than anything I could. 



katorade said:


> It IS semantics, and the problem here is that everyone you think is "wrong" is just arguing the other, equally as arguable, side.



What about it is semantics? You'll need to clarify. 

You can argue anything, anything at all, that doesn't make it true. You claiming the site isn't pornographic, despite the porn on the site, is just silly. It's like arguing the earth is flat. Sure, you can argue it, but it's not true.



katorade said:


> I am on a lot of other forums that are adult only because the material content is deemed not appropriate for children, not because of a pornographic nature, but because it's _adult_ in nature.You do know there's a difference, right? Some of them feel that an 18+ rule is necessary simply because there's strong language. I am on another website that has several separate sub-forums of a truly pornographic nature where you can see hardcore pictures or videos (one for the girls AND the guys each), a literotica forum, and un-moderated forum for extreme content, one for anonymous confessions which are typically of a strong sexual nature, and even one for those into the BDSM scene.




I believe I already asked for examples of adult sites that don't have pornographic natures to someone else. You haven't provided any either, so I'll ask for those at this time.

Strong language isn't an 18+ requirement though, that's a personal opinion. If you can name me a website that REQUIRES members to be over 18 and isn't pornographic in nature, I'd be quite amazed. 

The last website you claim, definitely requires the over 18 rule. If it was a website about cars or something, I'd agree, not a porn forum. If it was about dating, I'd be on the edge. If it was about sex, then it's definitely pornographic. 

However, you didn't really reply to what I typed and the correctness of the analogy.



katorade said:


> By your definition the site would be considered a porn site, _and_ it started out as one as a dumping ground for pornographic content from another family-friendly site. However, neither the patrons of the site or the owners currently think of the site as a pornography site because of the community of friendships that developed. It is a lifestyle site that addresses all aspects of a person's life, INCLUDING their sexuality, as vanilla or deviant it may be. It also had a majority percentage of lurkers that were only there to browse the "NWS" sections, but the members and owners all agreed that if you didn't contribute, then you had no privileges, and the boards were locked and all lurkers with less than 10 posts in the last year were purged. To gain or regain entry now, you have to have someone invite or vouch for you. You simply have to fit in with the vibe of the forums to get the *bonus* of seeing the porn. The heart of the place, however, is in the community.



My definition is the one that is used in the dictionary and *checks* wikipedia. 

In this paragraph you're talking about a site but not telling me much about it. I can't make a proper rebuttle at all if you give no information. It's also a personal story, and has little weight argumentatively. However, guess what the people do at the porn sections of that site? Perhaps the main purpose of the aforementioned site isn't pornographic, but having sections devoted to it definitely makes it a main part of the site and would thus promote it.

Making friendships and having a community doesn't do anything to change the pornographic nature of anything. Just because you befriend a stripper doesn't mean what she does to you in the club is any less sexual. 



katorade said:


> The fetish nature of this website does not necessarily mean it's pornographic, the same way the fetish nature of BDSM does not necessarily mean it's pornographic. Pictures of someone bound, or in a rubber body suit are erotic/sexual in nature, but by LAW, which is the aspect we are discussing here given the 18+ argument, they are not of pornographic nature. You could argue that by definition they are because they are depictions meant to arouse you, BUT not everyone finds it to be at all sexually attractive, just as many people do not find material you can find here to be sexually attractive.



And again you use the same tired argument. I get it, you don't find it as porn because it doesn't turn you on. Your personal taste matters zero in this discussion. Many members do find it erotic, do go here to masturbate, and thus it IS pornographic. 

And I already addressed that nudity has no bearing on what someone finds sexually arousing. Again you're hung up on this fact. You're missing all the important points being made, or openly disregarding them because you can't deny them, and hanging up on what is essentially the least important parts of what I say. Audio can be considered pornographic. 



katorade said:


> That's like saying that because there's a sizable chunk of people that are sexually aroused by feet, that feet should be considered sexual in nature. Of course they can be sexual in nature, but they are hardly pornographic. For many here, watching a woman eat is sexual, that doesn't make it porn. Belly rubbing is sexual, doesn't make it porn. Weighing and measuring is sexually gratifying, doesn't make it porn. I could go on for hours.
> 
> Just because this board chooses to contain material of adult nature and display sexual freedoms does NOT make it pornography.



Everything can possibly be deemed sexual in nature. However, when you make a site or magazine devoted to that one item and for the people that admire it, then it's pornographic. Especially when used in sexual ways. Like masturbating with the foot. Contemplate people with a latex fetish. This site is the same, just with fat and weight. Having SSBBW's in bras and panties isn't humor on this site, it's meant to be taken seriously and sexually stimulating to members. Maybe it's because that isn't seen mainstream and that it's taboo that makes it so great.

You could go on for hours, and you still wouldn't have realized that to you and more mainstream people, that's not pornographic. But, which is what I've been saying from the beginning, that to the people that do masturbate to that, those things are pornographic and sexual. Look at a site like clips4sale. That's a porn site. There's many vids with a belly fetish, foot fetish, etc. Every single video on there is made for someone to masturbate to. You might not think being yelled at or humiliated is pornographic, but to the person that buys a video like that, it is. This is the hang up that you need to overcome to realize why you're incorrect. 

This site is made for people with a fat fetish. They like to dress up the word, and say fat admirer, but I call it like it is. 

When a girl in clothes gets weighed and has gained and it's on a pay site, it's porn. Most definitely without a doubt: Pornography. 

This site has literature that has all of the fat fetish stuff. It also has sex, and the inclusion of fat fetishism with the sex. They're erotic stories. They are pornography, since porn isn't just photos and video. Literature and audio count as well as any media, sculputure for example. 

Do people come here and masturbate? Is it a large number of them? Is the site catered to them to do this? How can you argue these points? You can't, because you've even said that this much was the case. But then how do you go on to say, well that's not pornographic in nature? I don't understand why you're making the distinction, even if you yourself don't participate in such events.


----------



## Santaclear

Vader7476 said:


> ....And here you totally blow up your entire argument. You can't claim there is pornographic material on here and then say the site isn't of a pornographic nature. That's ridiculous.
> 
> You could go on for hours...



By the same token you can't deny that with all the whining that goes on here it isn't a site of a whining nature.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Santaclear said:


> By the same token you can't deny that with all the whining that goes on here it isn't a site of a whining nature.


I believe I did say this site was like a grown up version of pawg somewhere lol


----------



## katorade

Vader7476 said:


> There hasn't been one argument other than, "That's not how I view the site!" Which is a terribly weak argument, it's an argument of ignorance of the highest level.
> 
> Promotion and intent matter very little. I've already said this. You can claim and intend anything, but how it's perceived is what matters.




Blah blah blah blah. You do realize that you're doing the SAAAAAAAAAAAAME exact thing, right? Right? Am I talking to a wall? You do realize that you're one of the _few_ in this thread that perceives this site as a porn site, right, and it's not just ME saying that's how I view it? That the owner himself disagrees with you? It couldn't POSSIBLY be that you're wrong, could it?

My boyfriend found this site by pure chance while looking for forum threads on tooth whiteners. He likes IRC chats and whatnot and went on chat, and that's where we met, where we discussed things like music and movies and politics, nothing about sex or fat.
I think I would know if my own boyfriend had a fat fetish, thank you very much. Just because someone finds beauty in bigger woman does NOT mean he has a fetish. He also finds thinner women attractive. He's a big guy himself, and that doesn't mean I'm a fetishist, either. I have a preference for big cuddly guys, but I have dated the rainbow, so to speak. 

Just because you have a preference or attraction to something, doesn't mean it's a fetish, or are we going to argue that as semantics now, too?

Also, linking you to the other forums I frequent wouldn't do you any good since they are on lock-down and you need a voucher to get in. Even then it's not a guarantee, it just means you'd get the opportunity to prove yourself. All you'd see is a main page with just a link for an unregistered persons thread on how to attempt to join.

In case you missed it the first billion times, I'll say it again. Just because there is sexual content on this website does not make it a pornography website. Yes, there is sexual material on this website, but it is not the majority or primary focus of it, no matter how many people look at what, therefore it is NOT a porn site. If the number of users browsing a website for sexual gratification actually mattered, then almost EVERY forum with sexual content on it would be considered porn, and THAT is stupid.

It's not a freaking democracy here. It doesn't matter if a billion people end up browsing the paysite boards to get their rocks off. Do you realize how many people spend a majority of their internet time looking for masturbatory materials? Google MUST be a porno search engine according to your rules. Screw the fact that I can look up a recipe on how to make chili or someone's research on bacterial life on Mars. You can look up porn on there, and that's one of the most searched for items, so it HAS to be a porno search engine!


----------



## Vader7476

Santaclear said:


> By the same token you can't deny that with all the whining that goes on here it isn't a site of a whining nature.



All forums have that quality over time, especially in threads of this nature, definitely. 

I can't deny I come off as whiny, stubborn, probably immature, rash, and uneducated. I try my best not to, as does everyone that posts, I can only hope I'm somewhat successful.


----------



## Vader7476

katorade said:


> Blah blah blah blah. You do realize that you're doing the SAAAAAAAAAAAAME exact thing, right? Right? Am I talking to a wall? You do realize that you're one of the _few_ in this thread that perceives this site as a porn site, right, and it's not just ME saying that's how I view it? That the owner himself disagrees with you? It couldn't POSSIBLY be that you're wrong, could it?



I'm not doing the same thing at all. I've come up with new analogies, arguments, and numbers in most of my posts. Despite this, the point(again, you missing points) was that the argument you keep relaying is a poor one. 

The amount of people for or against something has no bearance on whether it is true or not. That's another poor argument. 

The owner has only said that his intent wasn't pornographic and that he doesn't consider the original dims magazine pornographic. How that has any merit is beyond me. That's another point I've already replied to. 

I certainly entertain the possibility that I'm wrong. If I didn't, I wouldn't be having this discussion. The entire point is for me to try and learn what your position is and potentially have my opinion changed. So far, it's only been that you don't view it as such therefore it isn't, which only works if the vast majority of users feel that way, and even then, is still a poor way to define it. I've asked a few people that I know that do frequent the site their opinions, and they took the middle road, saying it's both pornographic and not. Perhaps that's the real truth, and can certainly see how one could come to that conclusion, but ultimately my hangup would be that if there is porn on it to that degree that I'd consider it pornographic.



katorade said:


> My boyfriend found this site by pure chance while looking for forum threads on tooth whiteners. He likes IRC chats and whatnot and went on chat, and that's where we met, where we discussed things like music and movies and politics, nothing about sex or fat.
> 
> I think I would know if my own boyfriend had a fat fetish, thank you very much. Just because someone finds beauty in bigger woman does NOT mean he has a fetish. He also finds thinner women attractive. He's a big guy himself, and that doesn't mean I'm a fetishist, either. I have a preference for big cuddly guys, but I have dated the rainbow, so to speak.



You may not know what his real fetishes are, but you should definitely have a better understanding that I, that's for certain. That's why I asked the question, it was a tad nonsensical without any background information. 

Beauty can be found in everything by anyone, true. But having a preferance toward a certain type of thing, especially when it's not mainstream would be fetishistic behavior, yeah. For example, if you had a clothing fetish, where you like him to wear polos or whatever. I can't comment on what your fetishes are obviously. You preferring big cuddly guys, without knowing much more, is definitely getting close to having a fat admirer attitude. 



katorade said:


> Just because you have a preference or attraction to something, doesn't mean it's a fetish, or are we going to argue that as semantics now, too?



I have no psychology degree, but it has been argued as just that by psychologists actually. That's certainly an interesting lecture I'd like to hear. My question to you is that if someone prefers his women cuddly, why do you not consider that a fetish? He'd be popularly called a chubby chaser if that's what he likes. There's plenty of examples of preference, but at what point do you consider it a fetish then? 



katorade said:


> Also, linking you to the other forums I frequent wouldn't do you any good since they are on lock-down and you need a voucher to get in. Even then it's not a guarantee, it just means you'd get the opportunity to prove yourself. All you'd see is a main page with just a link for an unregistered persons thread on how to attempt to join.



I don't need the link, but if you'd be so inclined to tell me the main idea of the forums. 



katorade said:


> In case you missed it the first billion times, I'll say it again. Just because there is sexual content on this website does not make it a pornography website. Yes, there is sexual material on this website, but it is not the majority or primary focus of it, no matter how many people look at what, therefore it is NOT a porn site. If the number of users browsing a website for sexual gratification actually mattered, then almost EVERY forum with sexual content on it would be considered porn, and THAT is stupid.



Sexual content on a site does make it pornographic. Otherwise, porn sites can't exist. 

The majority focus is on the porn of this site, as I've shown. If you'd like to prove that the paysite board doesn't have triple what any other board does for people viewing right now, I'd be amazed at how you got the numbers. 

Now primary focus is interesting, as this is where intent comes in. On this issue, I could potentially see how size acceptance would win. I only see it doing so by the slimmest of margins. However, this is the issue that is up to more than anyone else, the individual. I'd say the primary focus is fat admiration, which is then fat fetish and size acceptance, and the promotion of stimulation for that.

People looking at what matters. If most people hated the paysite board, Conrad would probably do away with it as it wouldn't help with traffic and seems to be against what he wanted the intent of his site to be.

Yes, numbers matter. To say they don't is the mark of an idiot. When a forum decides to have sections about pornography and the intention is masturbation, it has changed its focus, definitely when most go to that forum for masturbation. It's embracing it. Otherwise, you could confidently claim that Pent House wasn't pornographic because you can see advertisements or see a political comic. 




katorade said:


> It's not a freaking democracy here. It doesn't matter if a billion people end up browsing the paysite boards to get their rocks off. Do you realize how many people spend a majority of their internet time looking for masturbatory materials? Google MUST be a porno search engine according to your rules. Screw the fact that I can look up a recipe on how to make chili or someone's research on bacterial life on Mars. You can look up porn on there, and that's one of the most searched for items, so it HAS to be a porno search engine!



Um, it would matter if a billion people came here and browsed the paysite boards. That clearly would mean that what people use the site for is the paysite boards. 

No, a porno search engine only looks up porn. But one of the main uses of the internet is definitely pornography, and that's a huge draw for it. I'm reminded of Avenue Q. 

This isn't google. This is a website for fat admiration. To suggest they have the same purpose is hilarious. You can look up anything on google.

You can only look at overweight people here(Save for a few instances) and talk about fat admiration and acceptance, and read erotic stories. 

Otherwise what you're suggesting is that there is no such thing as pornography, because you can look up or type anything.



Wow, I can have the roll eyes icon too!


----------



## Vader7476

Let me try to simplify this, as it's been getting longwinded for me. 

Now, to be fair, let me see if I understand this all correctly.

I think that if a site has pornography on it and has to deal with sex and fetishes, it's pornographic.

Your view is that despite all that, it's not.

Is that fair? Well, of course it's not fair, but I want to know why you don't think that's a fair argument. 

So far from what you've said, it's that the original intent is on the fat admiration and that many people don't view the pornographic parts of the site. 

My argument would then be that current viewing trends supersede intent and that just as many do view the porn if not more. 

Yes, no, maybe?

I'm going to go read and then head off to bed. Till tomorrow then.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Vader7476 said:


> All forums have that quality over time, especially in threads of this nature, definitely.
> 
> I can't deny I come off as whiny, stubborn, probably immature, rash, and uneducated. I try my best not to, as does everyone that posts, I can only hope I'm somewhat successful.


I think if you come off as that I fear what I come off as lol



katorade said:


> Blah blah blah blah. You do realize that you're doing the SAAAAAAAAAAAAME exact thing, right? Right? Am I talking to a wall? You do realize that you're one of the _few_ in this thread that perceives this site as a porn site, right, and it's not just ME saying that's how I view it? That the owner himself disagrees with you? It couldn't POSSIBLY be that you're wrong, could it?


pic your links http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/Weight_Room/pics.html



katorade said:


> My boyfriend found this site by pure chance while looking for forum threads on tooth whiteners. He likes IRC chats and whatnot and went on chat, and that's where we met, where we discussed things like music and movies and politics, nothing about sex or fat.


just out of question how the hell did you manage to get into the IRC Ive never manged to get a email to register.



katorade said:


> I think I would know if my own boyfriend had a fat fetish, thank you very much. Just because someone finds beauty in bigger woman does NOT mean he has a fetish.


so finding bigger women attractive does not mean you find bigger women attractive ? Did I miss the shift to the twilight zone where nothing actually makes sense now.



katorade said:


> He also finds thinner women attractive. He's a big guy himself, and that doesn't mean I'm a fetishist, either. I have a preference for big cuddly guys, but I have dated the rainbow, so to speak.


actually I do find thin women attractive aswell but I wouldnt say I dont have a fetish, for me I say its a fetish because I dont feel you have to only like fat women for it to be a fat fetish.



katorade said:


> Just because you have a preference or attraction to something, doesn't mean it's a fetish, or are we going to argue that as semantics now, too?


If you want to argue semantics I can

Fetish defenition
1. Something, such as an object or nonsexual part of the body, that arouses sexual desire and may become necessary for sexual gratification.
2. An abnormally obsessive preoccupation or attachment.

so you could say that a preferance for certain traits that in now way influence sex could be called a fetish.


katorade said:


> It's not a freaking democracy here. It doesn't matter if a billion people end up browsing the paysite boards to get their rocks off. Do you realize how many people spend a majority of their internet time looking for masturbatory materials? Google MUST be a porno search engine according to your rules. Screw the fact that I can look up a recipe on how to make chili or someone's research on bacterial life on Mars. You can look up porn on there, and that's one of the most searched for items, so it HAS to be a porno search engine!


With google you have to search for it, here you can click on weight room then weight pics and select a link then it links you to porn unlike a search engine you dont need to specifically search for it you can click about and find it easily.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

katorade said:


> It's not a freaking democracy here. It doesn't matter if a billion people end up browsing the paysite boards to get their rocks off. Do you realize how many people spend a majority of their internet time looking for masturbatory materials? Google MUST be a porno search engine according to your rules. Screw the fact that I can look up a recipe on how to make chili or someone's research on bacterial life on Mars. You can look up porn on there, and that's one of the most searched for items, so it HAS to be a porno search engine!


Please try to follow the thought train here

This site is paid for by ad money essentiall
More people = less ads required
more people = better content posted generally
less new content or loss of content = users start to lose intrest
Loss of intrest = loss of active users
Loss of active users = loss of ad money
Loss of ad money = more ads required
More ads required= less new members
Less new members = forum stagnates 

so essentially its very possible to easily kill this forum, even if as people say the literature section is not a vital organ its still a limb, lose a limb and the body is never the same again no matter how you try and compensate for it.


----------



## katorade

Vader7476 said:


> I'm not doing the same thing at all. I've come up with new analogies, arguments, and numbers in most of my posts. Despite this, the point(again, you missing points) was that the argument you keep relaying is a poor one.



Not really. We keep rehashing the same point.



> The amount of people for or against something has no bearance on whether it is true or not. That's another poor argument.
> 
> The owner has only said that his *intent wasn't pornographic* and that he *doesn't consider the original dims magazine pornographic*. How that has any merit is beyond me. That's another point I've already replied to.



How does that NOT have merit?!?



> I certainly entertain the possibility that I'm wrong. If I didn't, I wouldn't be having this discussion. The entire point is for me to try and learn what your position is and potentially have my opinion changed. So far, it's only been that you don't view it as such therefore it isn't, which only works if the vast majority of users feel that way, and even then, is still a poor way to define it. I've asked a few people that I know that do frequent the site their opinions, and they took the middle road, saying it's both pornographic and not. Perhaps that's the real truth, and can certainly see how one could come to that conclusion, but ultimately my hangup would be that if there is porn on it to that degree that I'd consider it pornographic.



You're obviously not reading any posts by others in this thread, and by your own admission you rarely venture into other areas of the board, so you have no real basis for what many, many people on this site are here for.





> You may not know what his real fetishes are, but you should definitely have a better understanding that I, that's for certain. That's why I asked the question, it was a tad nonsensical without any background information.
> 
> Beauty can be found in everything by anyone, true. But having a preferance toward a certain type of thing, especially when it's not mainstream would be fetishistic behavior, yeah. For example, if you had a clothing fetish, where you like him to wear polos or whatever. I can't comment on what your fetishes are obviously. You preferring big cuddly guys, without knowing much more, is definitely getting close to having a fat admirer attitude.



That isn't the definition of fetish. The definition is: *Sexual fetishism*, or *erotic fetishism*, is the sexual arousal brought on by any object, situation or body part not conventionally viewed as being sexual in nature.

Neither he nor I require fat to be sexually aroused. I am attracted to him whether he's big or not. I was attracted to him before I knew what he looked like, and it's likewise for him. In fact, both of us are trying to LOSE weight for our health. I don't like to speak for him, but I'm also attracted to tall, lean men. I'm attracted to certain features more than others. For myself and other women I think curves are more aesthetically appealing than an emphasis on thinness. Saying a preference for something is a fetish is a stretch.





> I have no psychology degree, but it has been argued as just that by psychologists actually. That's certainly an interesting lecture I'd like to hear. My question to you is that if someone prefers his women cuddly, why do you not consider that a fetish? He'd be popularly called a chubby chaser if that's what he likes. There's plenty of examples of preference, but at what point do you consider it a fetish then?



It's not a fetish if it's only one aspect of several he or anyone else finds attractive on a person-to-person level. It's the same as thinking someone would look better as a blonde than as a brunette. It differs person to person.





> I don't need the link, but if you'd be so inclined to tell me the main idea of the forums.



I already did. It is a community of like-minded people to share things of interest, from cars to guns to cooking to entertainment to politics. The sub-forums are general, internet topics and links, the marketplace, NWS (the sexual content of women), Objectification of Men (tongue in cheek title, basically sexual content for the women), Drama, dating & relationships, body mods, the unmoderated forum (for forum drama/fights and really gross or extreme links), the anti-forum (for discussions about sister-forums), warez (computer stuff), die autobahn (car stuff), entertainment and night life, food and drink, health and fitness, the arts, making better humans (for parents), you're the dog now, man (pet and animal related), the armory (guns and weapons), the business, this old barn (home improvement), travel, the future (technology), alternate reality (gaming), geekery, gadgets, a noobie forum, anonymous confessions, and two password protected invite only forums, the dungeon (bdsm) and the green room (weed) for people with those special interests that are more comfortable discussing in depth topics with those that share them. 

By and large, the most visited areas of the site are the General forum, like our main discussions and lounge combined, and the NWS forum, almost exactly like this site's numbers are stacked. While it is not directed solely at two types of people (fat people and fat admirers), therefore not having limited content ruling towards fat living, it is very similar in its set-up and usage, and is NOT a porn site, although porn is available there. Porn that is far more explicit than anything offered here. It merely recognizes that sexuality is a large part of people's lives and even more so when related to the internet.





> Sexual content on a site does make it pornographic. Otherwise, porn sites can't exist.
> 
> The majority focus is on the porn of this site, as I've shown. If you'd like to prove that the paysite board doesn't have triple what any other board does for people viewing right now, I'd be amazed at how you got the numbers.
> 
> Now primary focus is interesting, as this is where intent comes in. On this issue, I could potentially see how size acceptance would win. I only see it doing so by the slimmest of margins. However, this is the issue that is up to more than anyone else, the individual. I'd say the primary focus is fat admiration, which is then fat fetish and size acceptance, and the promotion of stimulation for that.
> 
> People looking at what matters. If most people hated the paysite board, Conrad would probably do away with it as it wouldn't help with traffic and seems to be against what he wanted the intent of his site to be.
> 
> Yes, numbers matter. To say they don't is the mark of an idiot. When a forum decides to have sections about pornography and the intention is masturbation, it has changed its focus, definitely when most go to that forum for masturbation. It's embracing it. Otherwise, you could confidently claim that Pent House wasn't pornographic because you can see advertisements or see a political comic.



No. What I WOULDN'T say is that just because Penthouse and Playboy contain political comics and articles on society, that it's in the same category as Time or People. They may not be _purely _pornographic, but it's the majority content and the primary focus, therefore pornography. 

Maxim magazine, on the other hand, is geared towards a specific audience (men), does contain sexual content that is limited to showing no nudity, although the women portrayed may be adult entertainers, and has a large content of NON-sexual material. It is not a porn magazine. It is widely available for viewing by the masses and not restricted to being sold sealed in a plastic bag for decency laws. It's more akin to Dimensions than Penthouse is, just for a different target audience. 

Do millions of men probably jack off to seeing an oiled up starlet in a tiny bikini with a come-hither stare? Sure. Does that make it a porn mag? Nope.






> Um, it would matter if a billion people came here and browsed the paysite boards. That clearly would mean that what people use the site for is the paysite boards.
> 
> No, a porno search engine only looks up porn. *But one of the main uses of the internet is definitely pornography,* and that's a huge draw for it. I'm reminded of Avenue Q.
> 
> This isn't google. This is a website for fat admiration. To suggest they have the same purpose is hilarious. You can look up anything on google.
> 
> You can only look at overweight people here(Save for a few instances) and talk about fat admiration and acceptance, and read erotic stories.
> 
> Otherwise what you're suggesting is that there is no such thing as pornography, because you can look up or type anything.
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, I can have the roll eyes icon too!



The line I bolded is the EXACT reason why it doesn't matter if a billion lurkers are checking out the free, open access content on this site. It's the internet, therefore already skewed towards viewing for sexual content. Do you know how many of those views are probably from people that don't frequent this site, are here once, are here for the initial fascination, and are just passing through?


----------



## Dwavenhobble

katorade said:


> Not really. We keep rehashing the same point.
> 
> 
> 
> How does that NOT have merit?!?
> 
> 
> 
> You're obviously not reading any posts by others in this thread, and by your own admission you rarely venture into other areas of the board, so you have no real basis for what many, many people on this site are here for.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That isn't the definition of fetish. The definition is: *Sexual fetishism*, or *erotic fetishism*, is the sexual arousal brought on by any object, situation or body part not conventionally viewed as being sexual in nature.
> 
> Neither he nor I require fat to be sexually aroused. I am attracted to him whether he's big or not. I was attracted to him before I knew what he looked like, and it's likewise for him. In fact, both of us are trying to LOSE weight for our health. I don't like to speak for him, but I'm also attracted to tall, lean men. I'm attracted to certain features more than others. For myself and other women I think curves are more aesthetically appealing than an emphasis on thinness. Saying a preference for something is a fetish is a stretch.


You dont need it but you can find it sexually attractive just because you dont need it to be sexually active doesnt mean you cant find the thing sexy






katorade said:


> It's not a fetish if it's only one aspect of several he or anyone else finds attractive on a person-to-person level. It's the same as thinking someone would look better as a blonde than as a brunette. It differs person to person.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I already did. It is a community of like-minded people to share things of interest, from cars to guns to cooking to entertainment to politics. The sub-forums are general, internet topics and links, the marketplace, NWS (the sexual content of women), Objectification of Men (tongue in cheek title, basically sexual content for the women), Drama, dating & relationships, body mods, the unmoderated forum (for forum drama/fights and really gross or extreme links), the anti-forum (for discussions about sister-forums), warez (computer stuff), die autobahn (car stuff), entertainment and night life, food and drink, health and fitness, the arts, making better humans (for parents), you're the dog now, man (pet and animal related), the armory (guns and weapons), the business, this old barn (home improvement), travel, the future (technology), alternate reality (gaming), geekery, gadgets, a noobie forum, anonymous confessions, and two password protected invite only forums, the dungeon (bdsm) and the green room (weed) for people with those special interests that are more comfortable discussing in depth topics with those that share them.
> 
> By and large, the most visited areas of the site are the General forum, like our main discussions and lounge combined, and the NWS forum, almost exactly like this site's numbers are stacked. While it is not directed solely at two types of people (fat people and fat admirers), therefore not having limited content ruling towards fat living, it is very similar in its set-up and usage, and is NOT a porn site, although porn is available there. Porn that is far more explicit than anything offered here. It merely recognizes that sexuality is a large part of people's lives and even more so when related to the internet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No. What I WOULDN'T say is that just because Penthouse and Playboy contain political comics and articles on society, that it's in the same category as Time or People. They may not be _purely _pornographic, but it's the majority content and the primary focus, therefore pornography.
> 
> Maxim magazine, on the other hand, is geared towards a specific audience (men), does contain sexual content that is limited to showing no nudity, although the women portrayed may be adult entertainers, and has a large content of NON-sexual material. It is not a porn magazine. It is widely available for viewing by the masses and not restricted to being sold sealed in a plastic bag for decency laws. It's more akin to Dimensions than Penthouse is, just for a different target audience.


sealed plastic bags seriously i can walk 5 minutes down the street and buy an adult magazine from the top shelf of a new agents.



katorade said:


> Do millions of men probably jack off to seeing an oiled up starlet in a tiny bikini with a come-hither stare? Sure. Does that make it a porn mag? Nope.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The line I bolded is the EXACT reason why it doesn't matter if a billion lurkers are checking out the free, open access content on this site. It's the internet, therefore already skewed towards viewing for sexual content. Do you know how many of those views are probably from people that don't frequent this site, are here once, are here for the initial fascination, and are just passing through?




OK heres the problem
If this is a size acceptance forum then acceptance requires all ages
If this is not a porn site then why would it require over 18 only but merely age of consent as by your wreckoning there is no NWS content here.
If this is infact a site with porn readily avaliable soft or hardcore then it should be 18+ with warnings on the entrance, its pointless crying about protecting innocence when this site is open and contains adult content simply follow the link I posted earlier it goes to the pics section, where many artists have posted pictures of topless women.

Also i have sent a PM to a mod with just a few of the under 18 stories Ive found so Far and I intend to carry on but I found a lot very quickly


----------



## deepreflection

Vader7476 said:


> Your boyfriend doesn't have a fat fetish? Why did he come to this site then, and why does he find you sexually appealing? Because if he does find you sexy, and likes larger women, he's got a fat fetish.



There are beautiful, intelligent, desirable, hard working, high achieving, complimentary women everywhere. I bumped into mine here. It's deliciously conincidental that we met in a size acceptance community chat. I thought this place might draw open minded folks that I'd like to meet. She's got it all, including sex appeal.

Likewise there are ignorant, foolish, closed minded people everywhere. I bumped into you here, too. I do not have a fat fetish. In the name of your childish argument you denigrate my relationship with false suppositions.

Open your mind. Don't think of the entire body of people, writings, relationships, and material that is here as "it". Take a broad perspective. Pornography is indeed in the eye of the beholder but tolerance will give you a chance to learn from things you disagree with. One person or even 51% finding something pornographic doesn't make it so by nature nor through and through. We don't live in a black and white world.

Just because some material here is pornographic to some, doesn't dictate the site's purpose or mission. You can go around labeling things "a porn site" all you want but lots of people disagree with you and have their reasons. Listen to them and you'll learn from another perspective.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

I'm with Deep on this one....I'm kind of balking at the idea that any man that could like me must have a fetish. It's a PREFERENCE if you like fatties....not a fetish. Guys that like blonds or petite women....do they have a fetish, too? :doh:


----------



## Wagimawr

nonconformity makes me hot

if this were a rubenesque society there would be TAs and such.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I'm with Deep on this one....I'm kind of balking at the idea that any man that could like me must have a fetish. It's a PREFERENCE if you like fatties....not a fetish. Guys that like blonds or petite women....do they have a fetish, too? :doh:


now you use the blonde or petite examples, but doe those contribute anything sexual acts, not really therefore they are actually also considered fetishes


----------



## Vader7476

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I'm with Deep on this one....I'm kind of balking at the idea that any man that could like me must have a fetish. It's a PREFERENCE if you like fatties....not a fetish. Guys that like blonds or petite women....do they have a fetish, too? :doh:



Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Hold the phone here.

I, in no way, said that only fetishists could like someone. I in no way implied that, and I certainly don't believe that. 

However, there's a certain threshold where a preference becomes a fetish. Since our view of people is different than mainstream, it's categorized as a fat fetish, the chubby chaser. Which mainstream often misinterprets. Defined, fetish is basically getting aroused by things that aren't normally sexual. Feet for instance. In our "culture" the belly would be one of those things, and maybe even fat in general.


----------



## katorade

Dwavenhobble said:


> now you use the blonde or petite examples, but doe those contribute anything sexual acts, not really therefore they are actually also considered fetishes



Unless a certain hair color causes you to become sexually aroused, then no, it is not a fetish. Just because someone has a preference for a particular feature does not mean it turns them on sexually.


----------



## katorade

Vader7476 said:


> Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Hold the phone here.
> 
> I, in no way, said that only fetishists could like someone. I in no way implied that, and I certainly don't believe that.
> 
> However, there's a certain threshold where a preference becomes a fetish. Since our view of people is different than mainstream, it's categorized as a fat fetish, the chubby chaser. Which mainstream often misinterprets. Defined, fetish is basically getting aroused by things that aren't normally sexual. Feet for instance. In our "culture" the belly would be one of those things, and maybe even fat in general.



Not everyone here shares that fetish, though. There are many, many people on this board that have a preference for fat people that are NOT aroused by ALL fat people, they just have a preference for a particular body type and it has to mesh up with the entire package, and it CAN be seen in a sexual manner, like womanly curves or softness, just as lips are seen as a sexual body part because of their sensuality. I'm not just talking about myself, either, but many of the FAs I've spoken to here. There certainly are people that are just focused on the fat, but it isn't everyone. There is no "our".


----------



## Vader7476

katorade said:


> Not everyone here shares that fetish, though. There are many, many people on this board that have a preference for fat people that are NOT aroused by ALL fat people, they just have a preference for a particular body type and it has to mesh up with the entire package, and it CAN be seen in a sexual manner, like womanly curves or softness, just as lips are seen as a sexual body part because of their sensuality. I'm not just talking about myself, either, but many of the FAs I've spoken to here. There certainly are people that are just focused on the fat, but it isn't everyone. There is no "our".



Replying to you now.

We've already agreed not everyone on here is into fat people. I talk in a broader more generalizing sense, so it seems I'll have to be more on the look out for that.

I had a few other things I said in my post, but my internet just clicked off and I lost it. However, I'm currently writing the response to your previous post, and most of what you say here I'll be replying to in full there.


----------



## Vader7476

katorade said:


> Not really. We keep rehashing the same point.



You have certainly, but up until a post or so ago, I have not. Most of my posting has been correcting you on what you've missed from my posts. The post before last of mine, 116, you didn't respond to well over half of it.





katorade said:


> How does that NOT have merit?!?



I've answered this question, maybe three times now. 

Just because the creator(Owner, whatever) says something, doesn't make it true. That's incredibly dangerous thinking and intellectually void. 

If I say a piece of my art is of Columbo, and someone says it looks more like someone else, my intent doesn't matter a damn. The general consensus does play a role in definition, there's just no way around that. Society works as such in what they except and don't. You and I are arguing what is pornographic, if it's on this site, and if then by association it makes this site pornographic. That's the discussion at hand. Whether the original idea behind the side was Size Acceptance, cars, or sasquatch, what we're arguing is entirely different. 





katorade said:


> You're obviously not reading any posts by others in this thread, and by your own admission you rarely venture into other areas of the board, so you have no real basis for what many, many people on this site are here for.



I've read every post in this thread at least twice over. I'll be more than happy to reread anything you feel I didn't respond to adequately. 

I do not go to other areas of this board. You don't really venture to the areas that I do. So by the same token you have no basis for what many people on this site are here for.

Both of these views on the site though, are observational and personal. In a discussion of reason and logic, it's hard to view them as meaningful for a lot of reasons. It was this point that I brought up the numbers that I did, beause they can be quantified and unargued. Otherwise, it's he said she said and we're wasting our time. I have a feeling that neither of us want to do that.






katorade said:


> That isn't the definition of fetish. The definition is: *Sexual fetishism*, or *erotic fetishism*, is the sexual arousal brought on by any object, situation or body part not conventionally viewed as being sexual in nature.



I'm not sure how this definition contradicts what I said. A preference toward something not mainstream that you're sexualizing is a pretty good summation of that copied definition. Fat, articles of clothing, etc., all fall in line with that. Basically, anything that's not a nude fit female/male that gets you off to put it crudely. 



katorade said:


> Neither he nor I require fat to be sexually aroused. I am attracted to him whether he's big or not. I was attracted to him before I knew what he looked like, and it's likewise for him. In fact, both of us are trying to LOSE weight for our health. I don't like to speak for him, but I'm also attracted to tall, lean men. I'm attracted to certain features more than others. For myself and other women I think curves are more aesthetically appealing than an emphasis on thinness. Saying a preference for something is a fetish is a stretch.



I appreciate you opening up and telling me that. 







katorade said:


> It's not a fetish if it's only one aspect of several he or anyone else finds attractive on a person-to-person level. It's the same as thinking someone would look better as a blonde than as a brunette. It differs person to person.



You're being a bit vague here. So I'm going to reply, but as what I think you mean, correct me if I'm off base. 

Being blonde or brunette is one aspect. So if it's then only thin-fat, it's not a fetish? So if I find someone attractive on several things, but want them to gain weight to increase attractiveness to me, that's not fetish behavior? 

I'm sorry, but if anyone thinks someone(non-anorexic) would look better fat, I do consider that fetish. Perhaps that's where our main disagreement is. 







katorade said:


> I already did. It is a community of like-minded people to share things of interest, from cars to guns to cooking to entertainment to politics. The sub-forums are general, internet topics and links, the marketplace, NWS (the sexual content of women), Objectification of Men (tongue in cheek title, basically sexual content for the women), Drama, dating & relationships, body mods, the unmoderated forum (for forum drama/fights and really gross or extreme links), the anti-forum (for discussions about sister-forums), warez (computer stuff), die autobahn (car stuff), entertainment and night life, food and drink, health and fitness, the arts, making better humans (for parents), you're the dog now, man (pet and animal related), the armory (guns and weapons), the business, this old barn (home improvement), travel, the future (technology), alternate reality (gaming), geekery, gadgets, a noobie forum, anonymous confessions, and two password protected invite only forums, the dungeon (bdsm) and the green room (weed) for people with those special interests that are more comfortable discussing in depth topics with those that share them.
> 
> By and large, the most visited areas of the site are the General forum, like our main discussions and lounge combined, and the NWS forum, almost exactly like this site's numbers are stacked. While it is not directed solely at two types of people (fat people and fat admirers), therefore not having limited content ruling towards fat living, it is very similar in its set-up and usage, and is NOT a porn site, although porn is available there. Porn that is far more explicit than anything offered here. It merely recognizes that sexuality is a large part of people's lives and even more so when related to the internet.



What's the purpose of the general forum? Ours is subtitled size/size acceptance issues. 

How do people have like-mindedness? I don't understand how there's a community of people with seemingly nothing in common with a focus on nothing. If that's the case, that's pretty kick ass, but hard for me to think about. 






katorade said:


> No. What I WOULDN'T say is that just because Penthouse and Playboy contain political comics and articles on society, that it's in the same category as Time or People. They may not be _purely _pornographic, but it's the majority content and the primary focus, therefore pornography.
> 
> Maxim magazine, on the other hand, is geared towards a specific audience (men), does contain sexual content that is limited to showing no nudity, although the women portrayed may be adult entertainers, and has a large content of NON-sexual material. It is not a porn magazine. It is widely available for viewing by the masses and not restricted to being sold sealed in a plastic bag for decency laws. It's more akin to Dimensions than Penthouse is, just for a different target audience.
> 
> Do millions of men probably jack off to seeing an oiled up starlet in a tiny bikini with a come-hither stare? Sure. Does that make it a porn mag? Nope.



Time and People surely are different from Playboy and Penthouse. And Maxim and FHM different from them as well. It's all based on what people use them for. I don't think most people use Maxim for FHM as masturbation material. I'm sure some do, but my argument from the start was more of a numbers game. 

One disagreement I have and the reason I didn't use maxim is this:

This site has pornography. I know, because I make it and submit it, and have been told by many fans that they love my work and many of them specify exactly what they do with it. Most authors that I know, and have talked to, all agree they make porn. I haven't met an author in here yet that has said no one masturbates to his/her stories. Perhaps like Observer, the intent was different, but even he admits there's a pornographic aspect to the site in that respect. 

There's a huge following to the parts of this site that are entirely fetish related. Belly threads, tummy threads, chub threads, handbras, butts, thighs, all about sexual positions for fat people, the erotic weight gain of them, feeding, feeders, and so much more than I can type. All in a board dedicated to the sexuality of our fetish, not women. To get back, to really the future comments that you posed(Haha, what a weird mouthful of time paradoxing!) and where they fit in here, well, I'll just quote you. Probably will be easier that way. 



katorade said:


> Not everyone here shares that fetish, though. There are many, many people on this board that have a preference for fat people that are NOT aroused by ALL fat people, they just have a preference for a particular body type and it has to mesh up with the entire package, and it CAN be seen in a sexual manner, like womanly curves or softness, just as lips are seen as a sexual body part because of their sensuality. I'm not just talking about myself, either, but many of the FAs I've spoken to here. There certainly are people that are just focused on the fat, but it isn't everyone. There is no "our".



You say a few things here that I need to address.

Being an FA doesn't instantly make you attracted to every fat person you see. Since you're admittedly not one, I'll tell you more as we do see it. Of course there is plenty of room for individuality. What type of hair preference, the body type, the specific size, eye color, skin color, height, PERSONALITY, age, etc. Being a foot fetishist does not mean you get turned on by all feet. To say that to be a Fat Fetishist, a chubby chaser, you have to like and find anyone overweight sexually appealing doesn't gel with the real world nor does it make any logical sense in that liking society's normal thin women doesn't mean you find them all sexy. I consider myself an FA. I like fat women. I like thin women too. What you're saying is that you wouldn't consider me a fat fetishist. I, however, do. I have never, and I doubt that I will ever meet another FA that only cares about the number on the scale, and nothing about the person he wants to partner with. I find that an extremely scary and potentially crazy individual.

There certainly is an "our." Our community. I, of course, have been talking more in generalizations of specific points, because it's easier to type and talk that way. If you wish me to be even more longwinded to accomodate you in this manner as to distinguish which statements are general and not entire literal, I'll try to do as such.







katorade said:


> The line I bolded is the EXACT reason why it doesn't matter if a billion lurkers are checking out the free, open access content on this site. It's the internet, therefore already skewed towards viewing for sexual content. Do you know how many of those views are probably from people that don't frequent this site, are here once, are here for the initial fascination, and are just passing through?



It doesn't matter if most people use this site to look at porn because most people on the internet look for porn? I disagree with that.

Any non-pornographic site obviously doesn't have that problem. So a site like this, which allows people to use sexual content, needs to be about something where sex is an afterthought for the sex sections to be small. On one forum I visited, the main purpose was dating, and those sections were indeed more active than the sex part. There was more threads, more boards, more posts, and more views that the one small porn board. People went there for an obvious reason.

This site, it's far more blurry. The idea of fat admiration and acceptance is sexual in nature and yet non sexual at the same time, depending. If it's in the dating aspect, the people that want to date BBW's find them sexy. If it's about the rights of fat people, then yeah, not so much about sex at all, haha. So there's the obvious. Now bang, the forum is made.

The parts for the sexuality are viewed more and have more threads. Now, your argument is that it doesn't matter that the eroticism is what people come here for, mainly because it's skewed in that area anyway? Also, that most are just passing by?

On the second part, lurkers don't really pass by, which I suspect most of them are. You've probably heard that term before. Now, do some of the non members not frequent the site? Sure. Do we have any idea how many at all? I don't, and I'd assume you don't either. Thus, neither of us are qualified to make any argument about that at all. 

Do some of them come for an initial fascination? Absolutely. Do some of the members do the same? Absolutely. Not all members are active throughout any given month and I mean potentially even logging on! 

Despite all this, the influx of non-members is higher than members. There's just more guests. Maybe they're underage, maybe they don't want to contribute, whatever. But they certainly use the site, contribute to its traffic numbers, and I'd find it hard to believe that none of them enjoyed the site to come back. 

When you consider that they look at the paysite board, the Weight Board(Which openly says it's about fatness) and the story board the most, I would think a passer by would check out the main forum first. 

To backtrack a bit and get to your first point, does the internet lending itself to pornography skew sexual numbers on a site like this? By site like this, I mean one at least on the line for porn, and that has porn on it. That is definitely hard to say. How I would reply, is that if a site like Dims has those aspects to it, which you don't agree with, but if for arguments sake it does, then no, I don't think it can skew them. I think most would realize that those parts are an integral part of the site for many reasons, and that it's okay to focus on them.


----------



## Vader7476

deepreflection said:


> There are beautiful, intelligent, desirable, hard working, high achieving, complimentary women everywhere. I bumped into mine here. It's deliciously conincidental that we met in a size acceptance community chat. I thought this place might draw open minded folks that I'd like to meet. She's got it all, including sex appeal.
> 
> Likewise there are ignorant, foolish, closed minded people everywhere. I bumped into you here, too. I do not have a fat fetish. In the name of your childish argument you denigrate my relationship with false suppositions.
> 
> Open your mind. Don't think of the entire body of people, writings, relationships, and material that is here as "it". Take a broad perspective. Pornography is indeed in the eye of the beholder but tolerance will give you a chance to learn from things you disagree with. One person or even 51% finding something pornographic doesn't make it so by nature nor through and through. We don't live in a black and white world.
> 
> Just because some material here is pornographic to some, doesn't dictate the site's purpose or mission. You can go around labeling things "a porn site" all you want but lots of people disagree with you and have their reasons. Listen to them and you'll learn from another perspective.



I said nothing of your relationship(Although I did ask questions about it), and I find it odd you'd attack me personally. Something, up until now, no one has done. We've all disagreed with each other quite a bit, but said nothing personal. Do I find your girlfriend or you foolish or closeminded or ignorant? I do not. I don't know you. I've attacked her arguments, because that is what is expected in a discussion. She's handled them, and attacked my arguments as well. I'll ask you refrain from that type of discourse.

I'm very open minded and very tolerant. You can't really say that I'm not unless you know me personally. Even in this thread, arguing a definition and what a site is doesn't make me intolerant at all. Nor does arguing why I believe something mean I'm close minded. 

The majority consensus on something does matter in certain situations. Obscenity laws here in the states can often be voted on at a community level. Even with that in mind, if you're saying that if most people consider something one way, it doesn't matter lawfully I think you'd disagree. You can't just go do whatever you would like because the consensus doesn't fit your world view. With regards to pornography, if we're talking truth, then yeah, how many believe something doesn't make it true...but that is in regards to both sides. Mine and yours. But why then say many people disagree with me(Something unproven) as if it means something?


----------



## katorade

*Throws hands up in the air* That's it. I'm done. It's obvious that you are never going to accept that because someone has a differing opinion, it doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong. How about this, you stay over here in fantasy land, and I'll stay over on the side that has an actual community. Then both of us will be happy!

And please, try and say you didn't call me an idiot and ignorant. Please.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

katorade said:


> *Throws hands up in the air* That's it. I'm done. It's obvious that you are never going to accept that because someone has a differing opinion, it doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong. How about this, you stay over here in fantasy land, and I'll stay over on the side that has an actual community. Then both of us will be happy!
> 
> And please, try and say you didn't call me an idiot and ignorant. Please.



no but youve now called me an idiot for agreeing with Vader.
I again bring up the point this is Pawg for adults. it would appear from your post you are unable to accept people with views different to your own without accusing them of ignorance or delusions.


----------



## Vader7476

katorade said:


> *Throws hands up in the air* That's it. I'm done. It's obvious that you are never going to accept that because someone has a differing opinion, it doesn't necessarily mean they're wrong. How about this, you stay over here in fantasy land, and I'll stay over on the side that has an actual community. Then both of us will be happy!
> 
> And please, try and say you didn't call me an idiot and ignorant. Please.



I don't understand how me arguing on why I feel the way I do makes you think I don't accept your position has validity. You have a different opinion, and you might be right, but you've failed to change my opinion, just as I have failed to changed yours. It's not sensical for me to just go, "Why won't you accept you're wrong already!" just as it's not sensical for me to think your opinion is the correct one. Why you're even arguing this is beyond me.

How about I go wherever and say whatever I wish on this site? I like that much better. Much more freedom that way.

As for community, we have it here in the library as well, so yet another unfounded statement.

I didn't call you ignorant.

"Oh, it's not about denial, it's about ignorance. Although you do say that Dims is as much a porn site as it isn't, so maybe it is denial. Regardless, it certainly isn't me, I assure you. "

What this is in reference to, was to my claim that you were using your personal views of the site as argument for how the site is. That is an argument from ignorance, or if it was that you acknowledge that porn is on the site then a denial of it. That has no bearing on whether or not you're an ignorant person. 

"Yes, numbers matter. To say they don't is the mark of an idiot. "

You could, I guess, take this as me saying you're an idiot. I apologize. But saying that statistics don't matter is not something that's good to believe. I was trying to use it in a similar vein as you had in calling a statement stupid.

To summarize: This is a site about a fetish and it has pornography on it. The majority of users go for these almost solely, and thus I would consider it a pornography site despite other areas of the forum devoted to other things.


----------



## elroycohen

Vader7476 said:


> As for community, we have it here in the library as well,



This part is true, absolutely.


----------



## Fascinita

Just because you can't wrap your mind around the idea of a fat person being wholly attractive to another person without being reduced for convenience to a 2-D image, and because your cowardice makes it so you can't see fat people as socially acceptable and so can't like what you like out in the open (instead you drool over it in secret), doesn't mean there are not many people who most decidedly do not share in your MO, thankfully.

Your "fetish" (not really a fetish, from the sounds of it) is an anachronism. If it was once taboo to let the world know you liked fat people, you can bet your stiff little fingers that no one worth his salt still buys into that shit. Good luck being retro and all that. Just don't kid yourselves that what you have is a fetish. You are simply attracted to fat bodies. That you can't admit that out in the open and instead spend your years lusting in the privacy of your computer monitor is your problem. Stop projecting your self-absorption onto others less scared of their own shadows.

And let the true fetishists reclaim the term. You are soiling that word.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Dwavenhobble said:


> now you use the blonde or petite examples, but doe those contribute anything sexual acts, not really therefore they are actually also considered fetishes



Errrmmmmm, the men in my family prefer petites. They find them sexually attractive for whatever reason. A man could probably do things with a petite that he could not do with a fat woman. 

There are things a man might do with a fat woman that he cannot do with a petite. 

A guy might have fantasies that center around blond women.......

Having a fat ass doesn't make you a fetish. Liking a fat ass doesn't make you a fetishist. Liking tiny asses doesn't make you a fetishist. 
It's just a preference. 



Vader7476 said:


> Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. Hold the phone here.
> 
> I, in no way, said that only fetishists could like someone. I in no way implied that, and I certainly don't believe that.
> 
> However, there's a certain threshold where a preference becomes a fetish. Since our view of people is different than mainstream, it's categorized as a fat fetish, the chubby chaser. Which mainstream often misinterprets. Defined, fetish is basically getting aroused by things that aren't normally sexual. Feet for instance. In our "culture" the belly would be one of those things, and maybe even fat in general.



Just because "society" tells you something, does that make it true? 
How is your "view of people" so different that it's a fetish? You like a certain body type. Some people like their lovers tall....some like them short. Some go ga-ga over certain hair color. Some guys prefer women with huge breasts or asses. Some like petite women with tiny breasts and asses. 
It's a PREFERENCE of what you find sexually stimulating to your eye. Body size variations don't a fetish make. 

And wtf does that have to do with fucking children, btw? Or a written fantasy about pedophiles?


----------



## Vader7476

Fascinita said:


> Just because you can't wrap your mind around the idea of a fat person being wholly attractive to another person without being reduced for convenience to a 2-D image, and because your cowardice makes it so you can't see fat people as socially acceptable and so can't like what you like out in the open (instead you drool over it in secret), doesn't mean there are not many people who most decidedly do not share in your MO, thankfully.
> 
> Your "fetish" (not really a fetish, from the sounds of it) is an anachronism. If it was once taboo to let the world know you liked fat people, you can bet your stiff little fingers that no one worth his salt still buys into that shit. Good luck being retro and all that. Just don't kid yourselves that what you have is a fetish. You are simply attracted to fat bodies. That you can't admit that out in the open and instead spend your years lusting in the privacy of your computer monitor is your problem. Stop projecting your self-absorption onto others less scared of their own shadows.
> 
> And let the true fetishists reclaim the term. You are soiling that word.



Being attracted to fat bodies is a fetish.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Wanting to screw children is not a fetish....it's a sickness and a crime.


----------



## Vader7476

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Just because "society" tells you something, does that make it true?
> How is your "view of people" so different that it's a fetish? You like a certain body type. Some people like their lovers tall....some like them short. Some go ga-ga over certain hair color. Some guys prefer women with huge breasts or asses. Some like petite women with tiny breasts and asses.
> It's a PREFERENCE of what you find sexually stimulating to your eye. Body size variations don't a fetish make.
> 
> And wtf does that have to do with fucking children, btw? Or a written fantasy about pedophiles?



Yes, for certain things, it does. The idea of a fetish, is that it has to be out of sync with the mainstream view, or if you want to call it society, fine. You can't have a fetish about the typical thin woman.(Well, depending, psychologists can debate this one, and it's been put forth that anything you enjoy sexually can thus be a fetish, but let's use the more traditional sense of the word) Once you have a preference and find things sexy that aren't mainstream or traditionally sexy(Breasts, asses) that's when you start getting into what a fetish is. That's just how the word works, it seems to me you want to argue semantics about it. You don't put forth what you think a fetish is though, and if you only think it a preference to what you find sexually stimulating, then nothing can be considered a fetish. 

This has nothing to do with fucking children or fantasy writing. My original statement that got this current discussion started was in a response detailing that people don't want to be in work and be on a site that has child pornography on it. I responded that they shouldn't be on the site at work or anywhere they could potentially get in trouble with it because of the porn aspect. That's when that blew up. It wasn't meant as an all encompasing statement at that moment, more along the lines of just adult, but we now got here.


----------



## Blackjack

Dwavenhobble said:


> I again bring up the point this is Pawg for adults.



And I once again make note that you're absolutely incorrect. Stop sucking Pawg cock for two seconds and look outside the library and paysite board here and maybe you'll get a sense of it.


----------



## Vader7476

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Wanting to screw children is not a fetish....it's a sickness and a crime.



No where in that statement or in the response I made did it say anything about pedophillia. He was talking about fat as a fetish, as was I. Nothing at all about children.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Vader7476 said:


> Yes, for certain things, it does. The idea of a fetish, is that it has to be out of sync with the mainstream view, or if you want to call it society, fine. You can't have a fetish about the typical thin woman.(Well, depending, psychologists can debate this one, and it's been put forth that anything you enjoy sexually can thus be a fetish, but let's use the more traditional sense of the word) Once you have a preference and find things sexy that aren't mainstream or traditionally sexy(Breasts, asses) that's when you start getting into what a fetish is. That's just how the word works, it seems to me you want to argue semantics about it. You don't put forth what you think a fetish is though, and if you only think it a preference to what you find sexually stimulating, then nothing can be considered a fetish.
> 
> This has nothing to do with fucking children or fantasy writing. My original statement that got this current discussion started was in a response detailing that people don't want to be in work and be on a site that has child pornography on it. I responded that they shouldn't be on the site at work or anywhere they could potentially get in trouble with it because of the porn aspect. That's when that blew up. It wasn't meant as an all encompasing statement at that moment, more along the lines of just adult, but we now got here.



I concur with the part about simply not opening this site at work. Fetish or not, it's an adult site with pictures of nude people on it. Enough said. 

Your definition of fetish, though, seems to be anything not "mainstream". Women that prefer shorter men....is that a fetish, too? Guys that like small breast (yes they exist) are fetishists by your definition, it seems, since men are SUPPOSED to want big breasts, according to TV, Hollywood, the media or whosoever's opinion you are pinpointing to as proof of a fetish. 

My definition of fetishists: Guys that have to have to be jacked off with feet to cum. Things of that nature.....


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Vader7476 said:


> No where in that statement or in the response I made did it say anything about pedophillia. He was talking about fat as a fetish, as was I. Nothing at all about children.



Gee, I thought this whole bru-ha-ha was over the mods yanking stories that involved underage sexual participants.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Blackjack said:


> And I once again make note that you're absolutely incorrect. Stop sucking Pawg cock for two seconds and look outside the library and paysite board here and maybe you'll get a sense of it.


Actually if you read this you'd realise I hate Pawg with a passion I was just saying this site is becoming pawg for adults; petty insults, political correctness, leader worship and arguements of semantics.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I concur with the part about simply not opening this site at work. Fetish or not, it's an adult site with pictures of nude people on it. Enough said.
> 
> Your definition of fetish, though, seems to be anything not "mainstream". Women that prefer shorter men....is that a fetish, too? Guys that like small breast (yes they exist) are fetishists by your definition, it seems, since men are SUPPOSED to want big breasts, according to TV, Hollywood, the media or whosoever's opinion you are pinpointing to as proof of a fetish.
> 
> My definition of fetishists: Guys that have to have to be jacked off with feet to cum. Things of that nature.....


Actually as I remember posting something along the lines before of A fetish is a preferance in choice of sexual partner that does not directly relate to their sexual performance.
So if it aint related to an erogenous zone and you have a preferance for it then it is a fetish. e.g. Specific hair colour or length


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Gee, I thought this whole bru-ha-ha was over the mods yanking stories that involved underage sexual participants.



Actually you partly there the arguement was about.
The true clarification of the rule
This extended to the clarification of the site as if its to protect children to have no under 18 characters then surely a better protection would be to make viewing Dimms members only as without joinning you can still view all but attached pictures so minors can see content not appropriate for them.

A further arguement was over the rules in general not being applied to the whole site as many stories on the main page (not in the forums the main Dimms page) have underage characters many below age of consent so as such I was calling for a full application of new literature rules here


----------



## Fascinita

Vader7476 said:


> Being attracted to fat bodies is a fetish.



Awww, sweetie. You've made my point for me. Precious.

If what you say is true, then being attracted to _any_ body is a fetish.

Unless of course, it's so taboo and baaaaaaaad <pout here> to be fat that fat bodies become imbued with fetishistic powers above and beyond all other bodies by simply existing as fat.

Of course, if you believe fat bodies are really, really weird and "out there" and sub- or super-human are you really "attracted" to fat people? No. It would be more accurate to say that it sounds like you are repelled by them or in awe of them. What you term "attraction," in this case, is really nothing more than fascination tinged with probable disgust.

Which still doesn't speak to your fetishist card-carrying credentials. Nor does it help your _Fetishists of Dimensions Unite_ campaign. A bottom dweller is not a fetishist. And unless a person is interested in being part of and in contributing to a community politically, what hope has she of being more than a flounder?

Better (  ) luck next time, Sergio.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Dwavenhobble said:


> Actually you partly there the arguement was about.
> The true clarification of the rule
> This extended to the clarification of the site as if its to protect children to have no under 18 characters then surely a better protection would be to make viewing Dimms members only as without joinning you can still view all but attached pictures so minors can see content not appropriate for them.
> 
> A further arguement was over the rules in general not being applied to the whole site as many stories on the main page (not in the forums the main Dimms page) have underage characters many below age of consent so as such I was calling for a full application of new literature rules here




So in your calling for clarity of old rules or new rules.....you decided that a preference for fat people is a fetish? 

What does liking/preferring fat people have to do with children?


----------



## olwen

Vader7476 said:


> Being attracted to fat bodies is a fetish.



If being attracted to fat bodies is a fetish, then how is a fat person supposed to reconcile that in their own heads and why would a fat person want to date someone who sees them as a fetish? I am NOT a fetish.


----------



## Vader7476

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I concur with the part about simply not opening this site at work. Fetish or not, it's an adult site with pictures of nude people on it. Enough said.
> 
> Your definition of fetish, though, seems to be anything not "mainstream". Women that prefer shorter men....is that a fetish, too? Guys that like small breast (yes they exist) are fetishists by your definition, it seems, since men are SUPPOSED to want big breasts, according to TV, Hollywood, the media or whosoever's opinion you are pinpointing to as proof of a fetish.
> 
> My definition of fetishists: Guys that have to have to be jacked off with feet to cum. Things of that nature.....



Well, I agree, that it is blurry territory, and I don't mean to offend anyone by calling myself and others on here as fetishists. I just don't know what else to call it really. 

Oh, I know they exist. Couple of my friends are like that. I would say that my opinion is that once you go from breasts=sexual to a certain type of breast being sexual, then you've fetishized it, and definitely if it then becomes the type of thing where the guy in question only dates women with small breasts. Maybe not even dating, because the definition only implies sexual stimulation. So maybe at the point where that guy isn't sexually aroused by anything larger than ____. Whatever that is for that specific guy. That way he would still date women with large breasts, but he'd need other things to be sexually stimulating as where our "control" guy would be sexually aroused by the large breasts. 

To work that back a bit, if there were a site devoted to small breasts(And there are) I would consider them fetishized because at that point it's not about porn or a woman, it's about the breasts and not a human being. Phew, hope that helps explain my side!:happy:

Okay, so for your side, a guy that has(Have you said, and it's an important distinction) to be jacked off by feet. I would agree that's the strictest sense of a fetish, yes. When applied to the fat world, fat acceptace, fat admiration(Whatever you want to call this community, I'm trying not to mince words anymore) I would apply that definition to someone that HAS(Distinction!) to date a larger woman because thin ones don't make him cum. There are people on this site like that I'd assume, but where I would disagree a bit is with that distinction. I wouldn't say that one needs their fetish and has to have it or they can't cum, but I would say that it helps them cum more than anything else. If you insert my opinion a bit into this, it would be more along the lines of then if he finds the belly sexually stimulating, since that's normally a sexual body part.



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Gee, I thought this whole bru-ha-ha was over the mods yanking stories that involved underage sexual participants.



It was originally, yes. Haha, funny how topics change so freely.


----------



## Vader7476

Fascinita said:


> Awww, sweetie. You've made my point for me. Precious.
> 
> If what you say is true, then being attracted to _any_ body is a fetish.
> 
> Unless of course, it's so taboo and baaaaaaaad <pout here> to be fat that fat bodies become imbued with fetishistic powers above and beyond all other bodies by simply existing as fat.
> 
> Of course, if you believe fat bodies are really, really weird and "out there" and sub- or super-human are you really "attracted" to fat people? No. It would be more accurate to say that it sounds like you are repelled by them or in awe of them. What you term "attraction," in this case, is really nothing more than fascination tinged with probable disgust.
> 
> Which still doesn't speak to your fetishist card-carrying credentials. Nor does it help your _Fetishists of Dimensions Unite_ campaign. A bottom dweller is not a fetishist. And unless a person is interested in being part of and in contributing to a community politically, what hope has she of being more than a flounder?
> 
> Good luck next time, Sergio.



No. Fat bodies aren't viewed as sexy by the majority of people. That sad fact is what makes finding them sexy to be a fetish. It's why the mainstream would decree someone that does find larger women alluring, to be a chubby chaser.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Vader7476 said:


> I would apply that definition to someone that HAS(Distinction!) to date a larger woman because thin ones don't make him cum.



It seemed to me that your fetish definition was about someone fixating on body parts......that might be....not sure because it seems to me like a lot of me do that already....and don't fall under the definition of fetishist, in "mainstream" or not. 

As for your part I quoted....you do realize that there are many men, the majority actually, that have to have a thin woman to cum? How is that different than a guy that PREFERS/needs a fat one to cum? 

It's the same thing.....but the coin was just flipped. Just because TV didn't glamorize it doesn't make it "wrong", embarrassing or even a fetish.


----------



## Vader7476

olwen said:


> If being attracted to fat bodies is a fetish, then how is a fat person supposed to reconcile that in their own heads and why would a fat person want to date someone who sees them as a fetish? I am NOT a fetish.



Those are different points entirely. There is a lot to say about this, and can't be summed up easily.

I will say that not everyone who dates a fat person sees them as a fetish. That's different from a person who only dates fat people because he/she doesn't find others attractive or prefers a partner to be fat. Does that make sense?


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> So in your calling for clarity of old rules or new rules.....you decided that a preference for fat people is a fetish?
> 
> What does liking/preferring fat people have to do with children?


Right the story so far:
Stories get pulled of the library with in alot of cases no message or notifiction to the author.
People ask where the pulled material has gone.
Eventually someone found a link to the lounge where a thread is on about how under 18 characters in stories shouldnt be allowed and all stories get pulled.
People add 1+1 and get 2 realisng the mods have gone a little overboard with the rules application so much as any referance at all to any under 18 character be it passing in the street etc has been pulled.
The debate begins over the fact this site is an adult area and upon suggestion of a porn site style entrance including warnings and the forum and main site being registered member access only and no lurkers/ guests/ unregistered members.
Some then say that shouldnt be done as its not got adult content on it and is a size accpetance site.
Others argue it has and for many is no more than a fap stop.

I think thats a suitable catch up


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Vader7476 said:


> Those are different points entirely. There is a lot to say about this, and can't be summed up easily.
> 
> I will say that not everyone who dates a fat person sees them as a fetish. That's different from a person who only dates fat people because he/she doesn't find others attractive or prefers a partner to be fat. Does that make sense?



Very much so
Basically you have to date the person for the reason of one of their qualities rather than for them as a person.


----------



## Fascinita

olwen said:


> why would a fat person want to date someone who sees them as a fetish?



Olwen, fortunately, I think most of these people aren't interested in actually dating fat people. They're content with keeping fat people at a distance through objectification. Thank goodness for the internet. For those who actually wanna take it to real time, they tend to wanna keep it secret. So that's a pretty good indicator of who not to date. No fat person in his or her right mind would date a closet case.

It all works out in the end.


----------



## Vader7476

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> It seemed to me that your fetish definition was about someone fixating on body parts......that might be....not sure because it seems to me like a lot of me do that already....and don't fall under the definition of fetishist, in "mainstream" or not.
> 
> As for your part I quoted....you do realize that there are many men, the majority actually, that have to have a thin woman to cum? How is that different than a guy that PREFERS/needs a fat one to cum?
> 
> It's the same thing.....but the coin was just flipped. Just because TV didn't glamorize it doesn't make it "wrong", embarrassing or even a fetish.



That's what I was referring to earlier when I was talking about psychologists. The argument, which I'm not qualified to make but has been suggested by a few of them, is that everything can be considered a fetish. Thin women or fat women. 

My point was that(Despite the psychological/philoshophical debate) the definition of fetish(dictionary definition) entails the minority, and thus can't be about what the majority deem as necessary for cumming. 

I also never suggested that having a fetish(And even if preferring larger people as partners isn't a fetish) is wrong or embarrassing! Far from it! My only point was that it is the minority view. Nothing at all about morality or secretism or anything like that.


----------



## olwen

Vader7476 said:


> Those are different points entirely. There is a lot to say about this, and can't be summed up easily.
> 
> I will say that not everyone who dates a fat person sees them as a fetish. That's different from a person who only dates fat people because he/she doesn't find others attractive or prefers a partner to be fat. Does that make sense?



Vader, I gotta say, I find all your rationalizing a bit unnecessary. Bottom line, I am a fat person who doesn't give a shit about what mainstream society says. If I say I am not a fetish then that's all there is to it. If any guy who wants to date me sees me as a fetish he will be shown the door. 

I'm not the one who has to reconcile these feelings tho, you and other FAs do. If all you get out of sites like Dims are the sexual aspects then that's fine, but do realize that by divorcing yourself from the rest of the site that you are limiting yourself and perpetuating the very mores you come here to escape from. 

I admit I haven't read this entire thread, but I'm starting to find it ridiculous and I'm bothered by the fact that I as a fat person should have to entertain thoughts from someone who would see me as less than a person. Again, rationalize it all you like, doesn't change the fact that your reasons will alienate the very people you claim to admire - fetish or no.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

olwen said:


> Vader, I gotta say, I find all your rationalizing a bit unnecessary. Bottom line, I am a fat person who doesn't give a shit about what mainstream society says. If I say I am not a fetish then that's all there is to it. If any guy who wants to date me sees me as a fetish he will be shown the door.
> 
> I'm not the one who has to reconcile these feelings tho, you and other FAs do. If all you get out of sites like Dims are the sexual aspects then that's fine, but do realize that by divorcing yourself from the rest of the site that you are limiting yourself and perpetuating the very mores you come here to escape from.
> 
> I admit I haven't read this entire thread, but I'm starting to find it ridiculous and I'm bothered by the fact that I as a fat person should have to entertain thoughts from someone who would see me as less than a person. Again, rationalize it all you like, doesn't change the fact that your reasons will alienate the very people you claim to admire - fetish or no.


so by this post due to the sexualising of fat in the library and objectification of the characters involved (both male and female) you would like to see the entire library closed on grounds of size acceptance taking the next step from fetish to norm ?


----------



## Fascinita

Vader7476 said:


> Fat bodies aren't viewed as sexy by the majority of people.



You're keeping yourself in the dark. Typical MO for you, I suspect.

In fact, a majority of people, in practice, are as OK with fat people as with thin. Among those, there is a class of people who "like it in the sheets but not in the streets," sure. That's where you come in.

You bought into the hype, lock stock and barrel. You watched a lot of TV and saw a lot of ads and took in a lot of rhetoric and didn't know enough to look at the reality around you. Fat people are married, partnered, happily or otherwise, as often as "skinny" people.

You and your friends, you live in a world that was programmed and uploaded for you by ad execs and posers and cowards. And the worst thing about it is that you took it lying down.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Fascinita said:


> You're keeping yourself in the dark. Typical MO for you, I suspect.
> 
> In fact, a majority of people, in practice, are pretty OK with fat people. Among those, there is a class of people who "like it in the sheets but not in the streets," sure. That's where you come in.
> 
> You bought into the hype, lock stock and barrel. You watched a lot of TV and saw a lot of ads and didn't know enough to look at the reality around you. Fat people are married, partnered, happily or otherwise, as often as "skinny" people.
> 
> You and your friends, you live in a world that was programmed and uploaded for you by ad execs and posers and cowards. And the worst thing about it is that you took it lying down.


Read Vaders post again because he is saying.
Not everyone finds fat sexy, people will accept dating fat people for other aspects of their personality of apperance and not specifically date them because they are fat.


----------



## Vader7476

olwen said:


> Vader, I gotta say, I find all your rationalizing a bit unnecessary. Bottom line, I am a fat person who doesn't give a shit about what mainstream society says. If I say I am not a fetish then that's all there is to it. If any guy who wants to date me sees me as a fetish he will be shown the door.



I agree completely, and haven't said different.




olwen said:


> I'm not the one who has to reconcile these feelings tho, you and other FAs do. If all you get out of sites like Dims are the sexual aspects then that's fine, but do realize that by divorcing yourself from the rest of the site that you are limiting yourself and perpetuating the very mores you come here to escape from.



I'm limiting myself by not visiting the rest of the site? In what way? What do you mean by perpetuating the very mores I come here to escape from? Reconcile what feelings? I see women as people first. That's what I like about them and dating them, getting a friend, partner, and lover. I don't hold weight as a criteria for me dating.



olwen said:


> I admit I haven't read this entire thread, but I'm starting to find it ridiculous and I'm bothered by the fact that I as a fat person should have to entertain thoughts from someone who would see me as less than a person. Again, rationalize it all you like, doesn't change the fact that your reasons will alienate the very people you claim to admire - fetish or no.



I don't see anyone as less than a person. Where are you getting this idea from? 

I do consider myself a fat admirer. I find larger women sexy. I find thin women sexy too. I don't limit myself to a weight range for dating. So who would I be alienating? I love women in general first and foremost.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Dwavenhobble said:


> Right the story so far:
> Stories get pulled of the library with in alot of cases no message or notifiction to the author.
> People ask where the pulled material has gone.
> Eventually someone found a link to the lounge where a thread is on about how under 18 characters in stories shouldnt be allowed and all stories get pulled.
> People add 1+1 and get 2 realisng the mods have gone a little overboard with the rules application so much as any referance at all to any under 18 character be it passing in the street etc has been pulled.
> The debate begins over the fact this site is an adult area and upon suggestion of a porn site style entrance including warnings and the forum and main site being registered member access only and no lurkers/ guests/ unregistered members.
> Some then say that shouldnt be done as its not got adult content on it and is a size accpetance site.
> Others argue it has and for many is no more than a fap stop.
> 
> I think thats a suitable catch up



Lol, yes I think I had all that. But back to my original question:
What does liking/preferring fat people have to do with children?

Whether it's a fetish site for people that like fatties or a fat acceptance site, what does that have to do with fantasies about underage people/children?

Personally, it seems like "good business" to me for those stories to be "yanked" until the mods have more time to thoroughly assess what is acceptable or not. The mods don't warn me if they delete one of my posts so why would they ask permission to remove a story? 
I have written some of the stories in the library myself. It's a place on the net for people to read them if they desire. I have no "rights" here as far as how long the "powers that be" decide to keep it posted. All I have rights over is the story content, IMO. If the story content does not jibe, then it's not suitable to be posted here. It's not a public domain but privately owned. 

Stories about underage people/children in a sexual tone.....it's not going to be good/pretty for this site if it comes under the radar of some outside sources/people that aren't involved in this community. You do realize that part, right? 

For the sake of the library and this whole site, it's the smartest move to soft delete or remove anything that could be taken, or even merely be misconstrued, as support for sexual preferences for children. The mod resources are limited so taking stories down and going back later to re-evaluate doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.


----------



## Vader7476

Fascinita said:


> You're keeping yourself in the dark. Typical MO for you, I suspect.
> 
> In fact, a majority of people, in practice, are as OK with fat people as with thin. Among those, there is a class of people who "like it in the sheets but not in the streets," sure. That's where you come in.
> 
> You bought into the hype, lock stock and barrel. You watched a lot of TV and saw a lot of ads and took in a lot of rhetoric and didn't know enough to look at the reality around you. Fat people are married, partnered, happily or otherwise, as often as "skinny" people.
> 
> You and your friends, you live in a world that was programmed and uploaded for you by ad execs and posers and cowards. And the worst thing about it is that you took it lying down.



You've now degenerated even further into claiming aspects about my life and who I am on absolutely no worthwhile ground to stand on. 

Yes, I know studies have been done where secretly people are okay with more weight in their partner than they are publicly. That study isn't about a preference nor about sizes that many of us here are accustomed to seeing. 

Nor, does any of that, nor anything I ever said have anything to do with the wedding rates, happiness, lifestyle or anything else of people or fat people.

None of that, absolutely none of that, has anything to do with what I've been saying and I find it disingenious for you to jump to these conclusions.


----------



## Fascinita

Dwavenhobble said:


> Read Vaders post again because he is saying.
> Not everyone finds fat sexy, people will accept dating fat people for other aspects of their personality of apperance and not specifically date them because they are fat.



I know you can't imagine otherwise, but that doesn't mean that a majority of human beings aren't capable of being attracted to whole human beings, fat or not. 

You go on believing that fat people aren't worthy of love AND sex, that those who love fat people freely and openly only do so _in spite_ of the fat body, and that the best that fat people can hope for in terms of sexual attraction is to be fetishized in secret and in the dark. These aren't very charitable terms for fat people, but thankfully the reality is way different than you've been able to wrap your mind around, junior.


----------



## olwen

Dwavenhobble said:


> so by this post due to the sexualising of fat in the library and objectification of the characters involved (both male and female) you would like to see the entire library closed on grounds of size acceptance taking the next step from fetish to norm ?



What? How did you even get that out of my words? The library doesn't need to be shut down, the writers just need to use common sense. You are posting your stories in a public forum, which naturally subjects them to public scrutiny. That's just a fact you all have to deal with. I do have to wonder how sticking to the library might skew your perceptions tho. I'd never even have known most of you were members of this site had I not come into this section.


----------



## olwen

Vader7476 said:


> I agree completely, and haven't said different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm limiting myself by not visiting the rest of the site? In what way? What do you mean by perpetuating the very mores I come here to escape from? Reconcile what feelings? I see women as people first. That's what I like about them and dating them, getting a friend, partner, and lover. I don't hold weight as a criteria for me dating.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see anyone as less than a person. Where are you getting this idea from?
> 
> I do consider myself a fat admirer. I find larger women sexy. I find thin women sexy too. I don't limit myself to a weight range for dating. So who would I be alienating? I love women in general first and foremost.



Vader, you are arguing that fat is fetish. How much time do you spend in the library, the paysite board, and the weight board compared to the other parts of the site? Do I really need to connect the dots for you? All I have to go on about you is what you post. And whether or not what you say meshes with who you are in real life is up to you.


----------



## Fascinita

Vader7476 said:


> You've now degenerated even further into claiming aspects about my life and who I am on absolutely no worthwhile ground to stand on.



Sweetie, those are just guesses, of course. I said as much ("I suspect," above.) But your own rhetoric points the way to those guesses. Merely saying my guesses are incorrect doesn't prove anything. You've been speaking here at length, and it's clear that you believe that an attraction to fat is something that goes against the grain, something naughty and bad, to be kept in the dark, something most "normal" people would never dream of indulging in.

And yet, fat people continue to be partnered and to be found sexy by millions of others.

So you tell me: Are you in touch with reality or not?

You want to have it both ways. You want to say that you are a fat fetishist and you like that it's "taboo" and you get a kick out of the "forbiddenness" and "secrecy" of it, but that there is no element of rhetorical indoctrination that's involved in making fat "secret" and "forbidden."

Next you're going to tell me that you think things are as god made them, that fat people are "meant" to be pariahs and objects of both super-lust and super-disgust. Because, after all, you and your kin didn't _buy_ into the BS rhetoric that says that "nobody normal is attracted to fat people." According to you, it would seem--at least that's what the rhetoric you're mouthing implies--that's just the way things should be. 

Ain't that a nice how-do-you-do!



> Yes, I know studies have been done where *secretly* people are okay with more weight in their partner than they are publicly. That study isn't about a preference nor about sizes that many of us here are accustomed to seeing.



Here we go again with the secrecy. You really do think the only way to love a fat person is in secret, don't you?



> I find it disingenious for you to jump to these conclusions.



I find it pompous and pretentious of you to use the word "disingenuous" when you don't know how to spell it.


----------



## Vader7476

olwen said:


> Vader, you are arguing that fat is fetish. How much time do you spend in the library, the paysite board, and the weight board compared to the other parts of the site? Do I really need to connect the dots for you? All I have to go on about you is what you post. And whether or not what you say meshes with who you are in real life is up to you.



You do need to connect the dots on how me frequenting what means anything at all. 

Or how that relates to me thinking someone, anyone, is less than human.


----------



## olwen

Vader7476 said:


> You do need to connect the dots on how me frequenting what means anything at all.
> 
> Or how that relates to me thinking someone, anyone, is less than human.



I and a few others have tried to explain this to you several times now. If you don't get it, then you don't get it.


----------



## Vader7476

Fascinita said:


> Sweetie, those are just guesses, of course. But your own rhetoric points the way to those guesses. Merely saying my guesses are incorrect doesn't prove anything. You've been speaking here at length, and it's clear that you believe that an attraction to fat is something that goes against the grain, something naughty and bad, to be kept in the dark, something most "normal" people would never dream of indulging in.
> 
> And yet, fat people continue to be partnered and to be found sexy by millions of others.



So you're admitting all your doing is assuming things, and basically trolling. As long as you're open about it.

It is agaisnt the grain. 

It's not naughty or bad, I never said either, nor did I say it should be locked up or kept secret. I believe I've said this a couple times now.



Fascinita said:


> So you tell me: Are you in touch with reality or not?



Absolutely, as I haven't glossed over parts of your posts.



Fascinita said:


> You want to have it both ways. You want to say that you are a fat fetishist and you like that it's "taboo" and you get a kick out of the "forbiddenness" and "secrecy" of it, but that there is no element of rhetorical indoctrination that's involved in making fat "secret" and "forbidden."



More assuming. I don't even know if I'd call it ad hominem. 



Fascinita said:


> Next you're going to tell me that you think things are as god made them, that fat people are "meant" to be pariahs and objects of both super-lust and super-disgust. Because, after all, you and your kin didn't buy into the BS rhetoric that says that "nobody normal is attracted to fat people." According to you, it would seem--at least that's what the rhetoric you're mouthing implies--that's just the way things should be.



Yay, more conclusion jumping! Haha. 




Fascinita said:


> Here we go again with the secrecy. You really do think the only way to love a fat person is in secret, don't you?



No, never said as much. The study you alluded to, was about people and what their thresholds were in secret. They're okay with having a larger partner, but in public they are not. You brought it up.




Fascinita said:


> I find it pompous and pretentious of you to use the word "disingenuous" when you don't know how to spell it.



I saw that after I posted and thought you'd probably say something about a simple error as if it had any merit at all. I guess that's what it boils down to. You have no actual content, or do you have something? I'd love to hear something that isn't a grand illusion of your mind about someone you don't know.


----------



## Vader7476

olwen said:


> I and a few others have tried to explain this to you several times now. If you don't get it, then you don't get it.



No, I don't get how visiting parts of a site mean much of anything. You'll have to explain it. Or can't you?


----------



## Berry

I just have a quick question about the rules. If I were to write a story that involved a chile but didn't put them in a sexual situation. An example could be that a mother is gaining weight, she has a 15 year old daughter. Am I allowed that child in the story as a secondary character?

If I am, can that child have any feelings about her mother's weight gain. Could she insult her mother for gaining weight? Could she compliment her mother for looking good, regardless of weight?

A final question is can the child gain a bit of weight to help realism. I don't understand why weight gain has to indicate a sexual situation when many people are referencing this website to be a community and not just a porn site.


----------



## olwen

Vader7476 said:


> No, I don't get how visiting parts of a site mean much of anything. You'll have to explain it. Or can't you?



Young Skywalker was once just a farm boy who wanted to see the galaxy. He did not know he possessed the ability to use the force until he left his Aunt and Uncle's farm. 

Once he did manage to leave the farm he experienced a series of life changing events that set him on the path to face his fears. He had to choose: give in to the dark side or become a jedi and join the rebel alliance. Well we all know the rest of the story. But can you imagine how it would have gone had he not left that farm on Tatooine?


----------



## Vader7476

olwen said:


> Young Skywalker was once just a farm boy who wanted to see the galaxy. He did not know he possessed the ability to use the force until he left his Aunt and Uncle's farm.
> 
> Once he did manage to leave the farm he experienced a life changing events that set him on the path to face his fears. He had to choose: give in to the dark side or become a jedi and join the rebel alliance. Well we all know the rest of the story. But can you imagine how it would have gone had he not left that farm on Tatooine?



Now you're talking my language! :smitten:

Haha, but seriously, no I don't see how me going outside the forums I frequent(I do visit the others, just not with any activity. I view them slightly each visit, but I wouldn't say I frequent them, as it's usually glances and a thread here and there) would change my view on what I consider a fetish, which I based on definitions. 

My question was how will me going to the other forums accomplish that goal, not you reiterating that I need to venture out past my most frequented boards. I got that part! Haha. 

Keep in mind I have been on them more in the past, and mainly dislike them. I mean, look at what happened in this thread. I try and stay away from it. Why go there and post for someone to attack me personally, and not my position?


----------



## olwen

Vader7476 said:


> Now you're talking my language! :smitten:
> 
> Haha, but seriously, no I don't see how me going outside the forums I frequent(I do visit the others, just not with any activity. I view them slightly each visit, but I wouldn't say I frequent them, as it's usually glances and a thread here and there) would change my view on what I consider a fetish, which I based on definitions.
> 
> My question was how will me going to the other forums accomplish that goal, not you reiterating that I need to venture out past my most frequented boards. I got that part! Haha.
> 
> Keep in mind I have been on them more in the past, and mainly dislike them. I mean, look at what happened in this thread. I try and stay away from it. Why go there and post for someone to attack me personally, and not my position?



Vader, I realize this forum is tough for some people, but if you actually take the time to interact with posters outside the boards you frequent you might have a better understanding of how we view our own bodies and why we all feel the way we do, not to mention you might make some great friends as many of us have. Much like how Luke Skywalker learned to use the force after leaving the farm. He gained a lot by leaving. Granted the Empire came and destroyed the farm and forced him to venture out of Tatooine, nevertheless he gained far more by leaving than he did by staying. 

Now do you get it?


----------



## Vader7476

olwen said:


> Vader, I realize this forum is tough for some people, but if you actually take the time to interact with posters outside the boards you frequent you might have a better understanding of how we view our own bodies and why we all feel the way we do, not to mention you might make some great friends as many of us have. Much like how Luke Skywalker learned to use the force after leaving the farm. He gained a lot by leaving. Granted the Empire came and destroyed the farm and forced him to venture out of Tatooine, nevertheless he gained far more by leaving than he did by staying.
> 
> Now do you get it?



Oh, I can take the heat, I just don't have the time I used to. I've got better things to do with my time, like write stories for here. Something I've been lacking as of late.

I think I do have an understanding of how you view your bodies and your preferences. I respect that. I only hope that you respect that I disagree with some that have posted here on the issues presented in this thread. 

I'm retiring for the night. I've got a good book that I can't put down, haha. Until tomorrow, sweet dreams.


----------



## Fascinita

Vader7476 said:


> I saw that after I posted and thought you'd probably say something about a simple error as if it had any merit at all. I guess that's what it boils down to. You have no actual content, or do you have something? I'd love to hear something that isn't a grand illusion of your mind about someone you don't know.




So true. In fact, I offer no "content." But then, so much "content," I happen to know, is nothing more than drivel created for the single purpose of selling something to someone--ideas, products, what-have-you. It's different when a person speaks his authentic mind and when that doesn't replicate what you've been spoon-fed since you were old enough to watch TV, isn't it?

In fact, I have nothing to _say_ that can't be reduced to "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you." And we _know_ I didn't come up with that one.

In fact, as well, it's funny you mention "grand illusions," because that's exactly what I think you suffer from.

But it's your prerogative to believe what you believe. I don't begrudge you that. Just know that many, many others are going to have something to say about it when you try to speak with authority in terms that don't offer us a fair shake. As long as you can live with that, I say we can co-exist.

PS - Apropos this:



Vader7476 said:


> The study you alluded to, was about people and what their thresholds were in secret. They're okay with having a larger partner, but in public they are not. You brought it up.



I never brought up any study. I said that reality proves otherwise than that "most people don't find fat people sexy," as you claim.

You brought up the study, perhaps assuming that I must be talking about a study which casts fat as something that is admired "secretly," perhaps because you can only envision fat being liked "in secrecy." You brought in the secrecy. 

And that is, after all, what I've been saying: that where reality speaks to fat people being desired out in the open, you appear to only envision liking fat as something out of the reach of normalcy.

Yes, I analyzed your words and read into them. That's what words are for. Isn't it a little naive to speak publicly and then get upset when your words are analyzed?

Good night, sweet prince. :bow:


----------



## Tina

Vader7476 said:


> No. Fat bodies aren't viewed as sexy by the majority of people. That sad fact is what makes finding them sexy to be a fetish. It's why the mainstream would decree someone that does find larger women alluring, to be a chubby chaser.


Wrong. "The majority of people"s opinion does not define what a fetish is. Read this and be enlightened. 

Now, YOU might think that finding 'fat bodies' sexy is a fetish (particularly within your own inaccurate definition of what the word "fetish" means) and I believe you, because you seem to remove the person hood from the fat person, leaving them as nothing more than fat bodies, hence, objects. Yay.

Being attracted to fat people is a preference, not a fetish, no matter how you'd like to spin it. Is it the social norm? No. I'd file that under "Who Gives A Fuck?"


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Berry said:


> I just have a quick question about the rules. If I were to write a story that involved a chile but didn't put them in a sexual situation. An example could be that a mother is gaining weight, she has a 15 year old daughter. Am I allowed that child in the story as a secondary character?
> 
> If I am, can that child have any feelings about her mother's weight gain. Could she insult her mother for gaining weight? Could she compliment her mother for looking good, regardless of weight?
> 
> A final question is can the child gain a bit of weight to help realism. I don't understand why weight gain has to indicate a sexual situation when many people are referencing this website to be a community and not just a porn site.


by the new rules, no your not your not even allowed the kid in there because she is under 18.


The situation so far:
One arguement states that as with porn protaganists have to be over 18.
If this site is classed as porn it needs a warning entrace on the main page like a porn site explainning about the adult content inside and the forums sealing so only members registered members can view them, and not lurkers.
If however this is a size acceptance forum then the stories arent sexualising so the old age of consent rule should be reapplied.


----------



## Gendo Ikari

I know I made a big stink in all of this, and I would like to apologise, I've gotten over it and will instead of causing drama will take my art elsewhere. I'm sorry.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Gendo Ikari said:


> I know I made a big stink in all of this, and I would like to apologise, I've gotten over it and will instead of causing drama will take my art elsewhere. I'm sorry.



the future of Dimms looks more grim than ever, imagine if this is a trend


----------



## Gendo Ikari

Dwavenhobble said:


> the future of Dimms looks more grim than ever, imagine if this is a trend


I don't care, I'm done with posting my fiction.

Not leaving, Dimensions is still a great site, I'm just not going to fight this and cause drama like I did.

I have to choose better hills to die on.


----------



## Vader7476

Tina said:


> Wrong. "The majority of people"s opinion does not define what a fetish is. Read this and be enlightened.
> 
> Now, YOU might think that finding 'fat bodies' sexy is a fetish (particularly within your own inaccurate definition of what the word "fetish" means) and I believe you, because you seem to remove the person hood from the fat person, leaving them as nothing more than fat bodies, hence, objects. Yay.
> 
> Being attracted to fat people is a preference, not a fetish, no matter how you'd like to spin it. Is it the social norm? No. I'd file that under "Who Gives A Fuck?"



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_fetishism

Particularly linking here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partialism

And now that links here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_fetishism

You're arguing for the latter part of that last article. 

<i>[edit] Relation to fat acceptance movement
Some people involved in the fat acceptance movement argue that fat fetishism that it undermines social movements towards fat acceptance, through counter-productive objectification and dehumanization of fat people. They argue that often, fat fetishists (specifically feeders) derive sexual pleasure from increasing immobility, disability, or helplessness in the fat person through weight gain. Some people take issue with the coercion which is sometimes involved in fat fetishism.

NAAFA draws a distinction between fat fetishism and fat admiration: NAAFA states that "a preference for a fat partner is as valid as any other preference based on physical characteristics",[2] but also condemns feederism as coercive.[1] NAAFA advocating that people "celebrate the current weight of their partner as one aspect of the whole person".[1]</i>

I'm using the former definition. "Sexual fetishism, or erotic fetishism, is the sexual arousal brought on by any object, situation or body part not conventionally viewed as being sexual in nature."

Conventional is the key word, it's from there that I stem the word majority.


----------



## Vader7476

Fascinita said:


> So true. In fact, I offer no "content." But then, so much "content," I happen to know, is nothing more than drivel created for the single purpose of selling something to someone--ideas, products, what-have-you. It's different when a person speaks his authentic mind and when that doesn't replicate what you've been spoon-fed since you were old enough to watch TV, isn't it?
> 
> In fact, I have nothing to _say_ that can't be reduced to "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you." And we _know_ I didn't come up with that one.
> 
> In fact, as well, it's funny you mention "grand illusions," because that's exactly what I think you suffer from.
> 
> But it's your prerogative to believe what you believe. I don't begrudge you that. Just know that many, many others are going to have something to say about it when you try to speak with authority in terms that don't offer us a fair shake. As long as you can live with that, I say we can co-exist.



Authentic mind? I guess it depends on how you're using that word. I think you mean more along the lines of genuine or heartfelt? Well, when someone does speak their mind, and pours out their soul, that's moving regardless for me. Regardless if it's what is a mainstream idea, against the grain, and regardless whether it is true or not. I don't preclude mainstream ideas and theories to be incorrect just because they are mainstream. Mainstream doesn't mean that it's correct or not, it's just what most believe about something. 

The mainstream view of what's sexual and what isn't doesn't mean I agree with that view. However, it does have a bearing on how people can be viewed and how social norms are then defined, regardless of them being right.


I'd be interested to hear why you think I suffer from grand illusions. I have yet to make a point that is illogical, unfounded, or without reason on some scale. You may have a predisposition to believe in the fight for acceptance to the point where the mention of the word fetish infuriates you, or rather makes you cringe. I assume a feminist would feel the same way when she would hear "man" addressing humans and "he" addressing a person of unknown gender as a pronoun(Rather than He/She). I can understand that point. It is in this regard, that I think is a great case for the word truthiness. I can see how you might find that as offensive or slamming, but I don't mean it as such. 

I would like to live in a world where preferring a partner of size wasn't taboo, or defined by the mainstream as fetish. I can't claim those have happened yet. And that's why I still use words and definitions, perhaps to you, that seem archaic. I don't see it as a moral issue as much as I think you do. I'm trying to use the best words to express my thoughts. 

It's not about fair, as I think I've laid out in this post. I assume you're speaking of fair, in that defining the preference for fat as a fetish instantly means objectification. And thus, morally wrong. Perhaps that's where the breakdown and huge backlash occurred. I don't see someone who has a fetish or claiming they have a fetish means they objectify. I was using a definition related more or less to non sexuality and commonness. Does this ease your mind and help appease your original thought that I was a moron, childish, and delusional? I hope it did.





Fascinita said:


> PS - Apropos this:
> 
> 
> 
> I never brought up any study. I said that reality proves otherwise than that "most people don't find fat people sexy," as you claim.
> 
> You brought up the study, perhaps assuming that I must be talking about a study which casts fat as something that is admired "secretly," perhaps because you can only envision fat being liked "in secrecy." You brought in the secrecy.
> 
> And that is, after all, what I've been saying: that where reality speaks to fat people being desired out in the open, you appear to only envision liking fat as something out of the reach of normalcy.
> 
> Yes, I analyzed your words and read into them. That's what words are for. Isn't it a little naive to speak publicly and then get upset when your words are analyzed?
> 
> Good night, sweet prince. :bow:



I brought up the study because a statement you made was basically the results of a study, and I was well aware of it. You were commenting, I see now unknowingly, that I was like that. I am not like that, and I never brought up secrecy. I've been trying to find an instance where I said that an FA, fetishist, preference, or whatever you'd like to use, does so in secret or that I did so in secret. I don't, and I don't think it's right to either.

You think the reality is that most people think fat is sexy? One would have to define fat, but in the traditional sense, I've seen absolutely no evidence for that claim. 

This is where, as someone who wants a discussion or to learn, you need to try and hold back and instead of saying something, ask a question. 

Do I think liking fat is out of the reach normalcy? Reach is an important word here. You're saying that liking it isn't normal, but that one day it can. Either that, or you're saying all around us fat people are a normalcy and many are in love, with someone, etc. 

What I may say to this might be highly offensive, I don't know. I'd need some time to reflect, but more importantly know specifically and without a doubt what you're saying there and what you're asking me.

Analyzing words is entirely different than an attack on one's character and personality, especially when a lot of this argument has been semantical to a degree so extreme. It does neither of us any good. I'm fine and expect anything I say publicly to be scrutinized extremely harshly, as it should be. You see how that is different from a lot of what you were doing?


----------



## Blackjack

Dwavenhobble said:


> the future of Dimms looks more grim than ever, imagine if this is a trend



OMG someone who's always caused drama is still causing drama.

What's next in this doomsday trend of yours, a cop eating a donut?


----------



## Fascinita

Vader7476 said:


> Either that, or you're saying all around us fat people are a normalcy and many are in love, with someone, etc.



Yes, I'm saying that liking fat people and finding them attractive is... *gasp*... normal.

So sorry for you that you believe otherwise, since you appear to lust after fat bodies. It must be dark in that closet. :happy:


----------



## Vader7476

Fascinita said:


> Yes, I'm saying that liking fat people and finding them attractive is... *gasp*... normal.
> 
> So sorry for you that you believe otherwise, since you appear to lust after fat bodies. It must be dark in that closet. :happy:





There is a distinct difference in finding a fat person attractive, and PREFERRING fat people. The latter isn't common, and it's a mystery to me as to why you continue to inerject into a discussion if you still don't understand the points being addressed.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Blackjack said:


> OMG someone who's always caused drama is still causing drama.
> 
> What's next in this doomsday trend of yours, a cop eating a donut?


members here starting to act like complete aceholes ?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Is it just me that got a big chuckle at the idea of some of those stories in the library being called "art"? :blink:

My stories are erotic......people just might masturbate to them if they feel like it. Gee, I don't consider the erotic short stories I write as some type of artistic shit that honors Dimensions. You have a free place to post your stuff on the net......you get mad and don't post it. BIG FUCKING DEAL :doh:

If your fap material is all that great and artsy, go get it published and get paid. Otherwise, just be honest and accept whatever praise you might receive for sharing here.


Christ.....I'm still wanting to chuckle amidst the feelings of being appalled......get over your damn selves already.....

</major eyerolling>


----------



## thatgirl08

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Is it just me that got a big chuckle at the idea of some of those stories in the library being called "art"? :blink:
> 
> My stories are erotic......people just might masturbate to them if they feel like it. Gee, I don't consider the erotic short stories I write as some type of artistic shit that honors Dimensions. You have a free place to post your stuff on the net......you get mad and don't post it. BIG FUCKING DEAL :doh:
> 
> If your fap material is all that great and artsy, go get it published and get paid. Otherwise, just be honest and accept whatever praise you might receive for sharing here.
> 
> 
> Christ.....I'm still wanting to chuckle amidst the feelings of being appalled......get over your damn selves already.....
> 
> </major eyerolling>



Best post in this thread.


----------



## Vader7476

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Christ.....I'm still wanting to chuckle amidst the feelings of being appalled......get over your damn selves already.....
> 
> </major eyerolling>



Appalled at what?


----------



## stan_der_man

Fascinita said:


> Yes, I'm saying that liking fat people and finding them attractive is... *gasp*... normal.
> 
> So sorry for you that you believe otherwise, since you appear to lust after fat bodies. It must be dark in that closet. :happy:



Kudos Fascinita, I completely agree! Being attracted to fat people is just as normal as being attracted to thin people. Perhaps not in Western culture but certainly in the world in general and historically. This whole myth of FAs being exclusively fetish is exactly what perpetuates the apparent need for some folks around to push boundaries. Pushing boundaries isn't in and of itself a bad thing, but how far does one go? First you start fattening up minors, then once everyone has become desensitized to that what comes next? Stories of fattening up people to hack off their flesh... sending them off to slaughter and eating their fattened bodies like thick succulent slabs of pork...? Freedom of fantasy is one thing, but a complete lack of any moral compass of any sort is not what freedom is made of, nor is it necessarily good writing.

Also, Kudos to you GEF... Exactly what you said! The Library and "art"... indeed...


----------



## elroycohen

olwen said:


> What? I do have to wonder how sticking to the library might skew your perceptions tho.



I often wonder the same thing about the people that spend way too much time in the discussion forums. It some cases it seems to turn people into bitter, self imprtant bullies, who are all too eager to twist someone's words until they fit a stereotype that is convenient for an argument no one was trying to make in the first place.

I actually have no problem with the minimum age rule in the stories. I also agree with the preference over fetish view. But the bullying, name calling and just overall nastiness in this thread reinforces my feeling that I have no need to go out to the discussion boards anytime soon.


----------



## Vader7476

fa_man_stan said:


> Kudos Fascinita, I completely agree! Being attracted to fat people is just as normal as being attracted to thin people. Perhaps not in Western culture but certainly in the world in general and historically. This whole myth of FAs being exclusively fetish is exactly what perpetuates the apparent need for some folks around to push boundaries. Pushing boundaries isn't in and of itself a bad thing, but how far does one go? First you start fattening up minors, then once everyone has become desensitized to that what comes next? Stories of fattening up people to hack off their flesh... sending them off to slaughter and eating their fattened bodies like thick succulent slabs of pork...? Freedom of fantasy is one thing, but a complete lack of any moral compass of any sort is not what freedom is made of, nor is it necessarily good writing.
> 
> Also, Kudos to you GEF... Exactly what you said! The Library and "art"... indeed...



Where in the rest of the world does that ring true today? I can think of a tribe in Africa that shows that. Where else have you seen that and what articles are there on it?

Are you really saying that if it morally offends you, it shouldn't be written?

Taking in consideration that most of us on here aren't professional writers, I certainly feel that some of the stories in the library are quite exquisite and definitely artful.


----------



## exile in thighville

mossystate said:


> The rules were in place long before I said boo about anything.



you're pathetically lying. many, many stories that conrad or someone appointed by him (including several that observer authored, an inexhaustive search shows) with protagonists under 18 were approved for existence here, residing as such (and enjoyed) now for over a decade.

just to drop some i've-been-here-longer-than-you shit.


----------



## TraciJo67

Vader7476 said:


> Where in the rest of the world does that ring true today? I can think of a tribe in Africa that shows that. Where else have you seen that and what articles are there on it?
> 
> Are you really saying that if it morally offends you, it shouldn't be written?
> 
> Taking in consideration that most of us on here aren't professional writers, I certainly feel that some of the stories in the library are quite exquisite and definitely artful.



How about if it describes acts that are against the laws of the society it's set in, then nope .... it shouldn't be written. We can leave morality out of it and it's still a gigantic FAIL in terms of whether it can be written about and freely placed HERE. 

I really don't understand the pages upon pages of argument here. Vader, why not take that creative energy and peddle your art where it will be welcomed and appreciated? How difficult is that to understand? Stories about minors aren't welcome here. A simple google search will bring you to thousands upon thousands of sites where you may be enthusiastically ushered into the fold. And if the site is being monitored by the FBI (or worse, that guy from Dateline NBC), and if they come a'knockin' at your door, you can always foist the "exquisitely artful" and "censorship is wrong" and "writing about pedophilia is NOT ILLEGAL!" arguments onto them. You could probably also recruit a few Dims members to condescend to them while explaining the differences between pedophilia and ephebophilia and pederasty.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Vader7476 said:


> Appalled at what?



The idea of masturbation material being compared to art. Comparing the stories here to art is like saying Harlequin Romance novels are ranked up there with Shakespeare's plays. 

Come on now......


----------



## exile in thighville

exile in thighville said:


> you're pathetically lying. many, many stories that conrad or someone appointed by him (including several that observer authored, an inexhaustive search shows) with protagonists under 18 were approved for existence here



to be exact, 153 still on this site by my count



TraciJo67 said:


> How about if it describes acts that are against the laws of the society it's set in, then nope .... it shouldn't be written.



such as: time magazine's runner-up for the best novel ever written


----------



## TraciJo67

exile in thighville said:


> such as: time magazine's runner-up for the best novel ever written



You win, because every reasonable man knows that comparing published works of literature to online fap material in a censorship context is an apples to apples kinda thing.


----------



## exile in thighville

maybe i'll celebrate my winnings with a squirt


----------



## TraciJo67

exile in thighville said:


> maybe i'll celebrate my winnings with a squirt



I think that's a great idea, Dan!


----------



## exile in thighville

yeah the troll is the one sticking up for the site


----------



## TraciJo67

exile in thighville said:


> yeah the troll is the one sticking up for the site



just admit that you laughed.

and then, for good measure, that about 99.2% of what you say is pretty much for shock value alone.


----------



## exile in thighville

nope.......


----------



## Vader7476

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> The idea of masturbation material being compared to art. Comparing the stories here to art is like saying Harlequin Romance novels are ranked up there with Shakespeare's plays.
> 
> Come on now......



Just because a purpose of it(Although I do think some authors in the minority don't write solely for that purpose) is masturbation, what does that have to do with being art?  Art can barely be defined as it is, but quality doesn't really make a difference if something is art or not. 

I certainly convey many emotions, situations, and symbolism in my stories. I also try to show emotions or ideas in my drawings. I don't think them being pornographic in nature automatically disqualifies them as art.


----------



## Vader7476

TraciJo67 said:


> How about if it describes acts that are against the laws of the society it's set in, then nope .... it shouldn't be written. We can leave morality out of it and it's still a gigantic FAIL in terms of whether it can be written about and freely placed HERE.



I'm glad freedom of speech says otherwise for the national level. 

Oh, here? That's something entirely different. 



TraciJo67 said:


> I really don't understand the pages upon pages of argument here. Vader, why not take that creative energy and peddle your art where it will be welcomed and appreciated? How difficult is that to understand? Stories about minors aren't welcome here. A simple google search will bring you to thousands upon thousands of sites where you may be enthusiastically ushered into the fold. And if the site is being monitored by the FBI (or worse, that guy from Dateline NBC), and if they come a'knockin' at your door, you can always foist the "exquisitely artful" and "censorship is wrong" and "writing about pedophilia is NOT ILLEGAL!" arguments onto them. You could probably also recruit a few Dims members to condescend to them while explaining the differences between pedophilia and ephebophilia and pederasty.



There weren't many pages on the original argument, and even then, it wasn't about misunderstanding the rules. Um...no literature in America is illegal. So yeah, they'd be in for hell of a lawsuit, unless I was fostering actual pedophillia or engaging in it, which I do not.


----------



## mossystate

exile in thighville said:


> you're pathetically lying. many, many stories that conrad or someone appointed by him (including several that observer authored, an inexhaustive search shows) with protagonists under 18 were approved for existence here, residing as such (and enjoyed) now for over a decade.
> 
> just to drop some i've-been-here-longer-than-you shit.



Hey...Dan Wilson...there was no lying, pathetically or not. At least I don't think that Conrad made up those rules 2 seconds after I started that thread about the story of undulating teen gainers? Now, whether or not those rules meant anything... I am thinking they were still thar.


----------



## TraciJo67

Vader7476 said:


> Um...no literature in America is illegal. So yeah, they'd be in for hell of a lawsuit, unless I was fostering actual pedophillia or engaging in it, which I do not.



Vader, you may want to google "Jack McLellan" for an example of what can go very, very wrong when a person is not technically breaking any laws but is, nonetheless, a great big sack of excrement-coated human vomit. See how "protected" his "first amendment rights" were. He broke no laws. He wrote a blog about his love for and worship of little girls. He didn't have a criminal record, has committed no sex crimes (that we know of) and didn't actually break any laws by posting his loverly stories about how much he'd love to bone young girls.

Some interesting bits about how the judicial system is treating him. He now has a restraining order issued by a Los Angeles Superior Court judge, ordering him to stay more than 30 feet away from any child under the age of 18. Local law enforcement officials have helped concerned citizens by posting his picture on the Internet and around the town he was spotted in, labeling him a notorious pedophile advocate. I'm thinking that right about ... now ... McLellan probably wishes that he hadn't exercised his "first amendment right" to free and protected speech.


----------



## Vader7476

mossystate said:


> Hey...Dan Wilson...there was no lying, pathetically or not. At least I don't think that Conrad made up those rules 2 seconds after I started that thread about the story of undulating teen gainers? Now, whether or not those rules meant anything... I am thinking they were still thar.



They existed prior, but there were grey areas(Still are oddly enough).

Before that though, when there wasn't a forum, there were no rules at all for posting stories and there were underage stories on the site. So that's definitely a newer change that came about in...I guess late 2005.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

TraciJo67 said:


> How about if it describes acts that are against the laws of the society it's set in, then nope .... it shouldn't be written. We can leave morality out of it and it's still a gigantic FAIL in terms of whether it can be written about and freely placed HERE.
> 
> I really don't understand the pages upon pages of argument here. Vader, why not take that creative energy and peddle your art where it will be welcomed and appreciated? How difficult is that to understand? Stories about minors aren't welcome here. A simple google search will bring you to thousands upon thousands of sites where you may be enthusiastically ushered into the fold. And if the site is being monitored by the FBI (or worse, that guy from Dateline NBC), and if they come a'knockin' at your door, you can always foist the "exquisitely artful" and "censorship is wrong" and "writing about pedophilia is NOT ILLEGAL!" arguments onto them. You could probably also recruit a few Dims members to condescend to them while explaining the differences between pedophilia and ephebophilia and pederasty.


Ok lets get rid of all things in the world that contain over age of consent characters but could be contrude as pedophillic by the same people who think Disney teaches kids bad morals etc.
Right for removal from the world due to illegal or possibly illegal nature
lady chatelier's lover
Skins
Romeo and Juliet (ages never mention often speculated they are 15-16 in many theories)
basically any TV soap Opera
The Da Vinci Code
Harry Potter

So yes the world we live in is populated by perfection no crime, no-one under 18 ever has sex no matter what the age of consent laws say, no-one does drugs or drinks underage.

A quick search of this site reveals plenty of stories which characters over the age of consent of many areas of 16 but below 18, so maybe you need to take another look at Dimms before shouting off


----------



## Vader7476

TraciJo67 said:


> Vader, you may want to google "Jack McLellan" for an example of what can go very, very wrong when a person is not technically breaking any laws but is, nonetheless, a great big sack of excrement-coated human vomit. See how "protected" his "first amendment rights" were. He broke no laws. He wrote a blog about his love for and worship of little girls. He didn't have a criminal record, has committed no sex crimes (that we know of) and didn't actually break any laws by posting his loverly stories about how much he'd love to bone young girls.
> 
> Some interesting bits about how the judicial system is treating him. He now has a restraining order issued by a Los Angeles Superior Court judge, ordering him to stay more than 30 feet away from any child under the age of 18. Local law enforcement officials have helped concerned citizens by posting his picture on the Internet and around the town he was spotted in, labeling him a notorious pedophile advocate. I'm thinking that right about ... now ... McLellan probably wishes that he hadn't exercised his "first amendment right" to free and protected speech.



I've heard of him I believe. I'll try and read up a little bit.

Yeah, he's got a restraining order the article said. He wasn't arrested(Although some other articles said he was for violating the order). But not for what he wrote, and the disgusting images he took. That was all legal. 

I have no doubt doing legal things can still affect how you're perceived. One only needs to look at the KKK for that.


----------



## mossystate

Vader7476 said:


> They existed prior, but there were grey areas(Still are oddly enough).
> 
> Before that though, when there wasn't a forum, there were no rules at all for posting stories and there were underage stories on the site. So that's definitely a newer change that came about in...I guess late 2005.



Seems to be a lot of sputtering over obvious bullshit. An adult writing stories about the breasts and rears of kids as young as 13...not a ' grey area '...well, maybe in the mind of the person who likes getting off to stuff like that, but I don't bother with the feelings of those people.

So, folks have had the chance to get used to the rules ( and...again...I am referring to in your face obvious )...nearly 4 years. Seems that the writers would have asked about any ' grey areas ', after they read the rules. I mean, they must have read the rules...right? They didn't think that just because some story was about fat, that this was the place to dump it...no matter what...nah, couldn't have been thinking that.


----------



## katorade

Vader7476 said:


> I'm glad freedom of speech says otherwise for the national level.
> 
> Oh, here? That's something entirely different.
> 
> 
> 
> There weren't many pages on the original argument, and even then, it wasn't about misunderstanding the rules. Um...no literature in America is illegal. So yeah, they'd be in for hell of a lawsuit, unless I was fostering actual pedophillia or engaging in it, which I do not.





Vader7476 said:


> They existed prior, but there were grey areas(Still are oddly enough).
> 
> Before that though, when there wasn't a forum, there were no rules at all for posting stories and there were underage stories on the site. So that's definitely a newer change that came about in...I guess late 2005.



Jesus, I can't believe I'm coming back to this. At least it's a different argument this time.

I'm not sure how many times I'll have to say this, but DIMENSIONS IS NOT AMERICA. DIMENSIONS, NOT A DEMOCRACY. Your freedom of speech does nothing for you here. You signed away your rights to it when you signed the terms of service when you joined up for this site. A moderator could go around and edit every single one of your posts to say "I'm a little girl and I pee-peed in my pants" and there's not a single thing you could do about it. They could then also ban you for being underage if they felt like it, whether you really were or not.

Also, 2005 was 4 years ago. 4. Years. 4 yearrrrrrrrrrrs. Is that somehow NOT long enough to get a grasp of the rules? I could get a degree in that amount of time.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

mossystate said:


> Seems to be a lot of sputtering over obvious bullshit. An adult writing stories about the breasts and rears of kids as young as 13...not a ' grey area '...well, maybe in the mind of the person who likes getting off to stuff like that, but I don't bother with the feelings of those people.
> 
> So, folks have had the chance to get used to the rules ( and...again...I am referring to in your face obvious )...nearly 4 years. Seems that the writers would have asked about any ' grey areas ', after they read the rules. I mean, they must have read the rules...right? They didn't think that just because some story was about fat, that this was the place to dump it...no matter what...nah, couldn't have been thinking that.


The grey area being talked about here is age of consent to 18 characters, now many places the age of consent is 16 and you could legally (unless your a teacher in some places) go and have sex with someone over 16. The grey area/s here are inclusion of under 18 characters even in passing in stories and inclusion of under 18 but over age of consent characters.

Its becoming obvious you havent fully read this thread but as all work submitted to the literature forum normally gets moderated then put back in the moderated state, many already moderated works were removed due to new, as yet unexplainned rules, and the new rules havent been applied to the full site only new stories or ones related to new stories such as previous chapters


----------



## Wagimawr

I'm really thinking Anontalk is a good place for you guys to go hang out.

Lots of free speech (and pedophiles! hmm) there.


----------



## Vader7476

mossystate said:


> Seems to be a lot of sputtering over obvious bullshit. An adult writing stories about the breasts and rears of kids as young as 13...not a ' grey area '...well, maybe in the mind of the person who likes getting off to stuff like that, but I don't bother with the feelings of those people.
> 
> So, folks have had the chance to get used to the rules ( and...again...I am referring to in your face obvious )...nearly 4 years. Seems that the writers would have asked about any ' grey areas ', after they read the rules. I mean, they must have read the rules...right? They didn't think that just because some story was about fat, that this was the place to dump it...no matter what...nah, couldn't have been thinking that.



If you're going to reduce it to that level, then of couse it looks silly. But what about when the story doesn't involve an underage character in that? There are stories on this site that have been pulled now because of the new rule because they mention underage characters. Those characters aren't gaining, and are extremely minor. One story makes mention of some kids skateboarding, and laughing at the overweight main character(Who is of age). 

Of course now we have the new rule which tries to be very black and white, but its wording still raises some questions. We've asked these questions here, on another forum, and to Conrad personally with no results yet. Either they're busy and have been for weeks, or they themselves don't know. 

Actually, I know of authors on here that were asked to post on here, and didn't really want to. 

Hope that helps clear some of it up.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

katorade said:


> Jesus, I can't believe I'm coming back to this. At least it's a different argument this time.
> 
> I'm not sure how many times I'll have to say this, but DIMENSIONS IS NOT AMERICA. DIMENSIONS, NOT A DEMOCRACY. Your freedom of speech does nothing for you here. You signed away your rights to it when you signed the terms of service when you joined up for this site. A moderator could go around and edit every single one of your posts to say "I'm a little girl and I pee-peed in my pants" and there's not a single thing you could do about it. They could then also ban you for being underage if they felt like it, whether you really were or not.
> 
> Also, 2005 was 4 years ago. 4. Years. 4 yearrrrrrrrrrrs. Is that somehow NOT long enough to get a grasp of the rules? I could get a degree in that amount of time.


Dims is not America: True
Dims is not a Democracy: Very Debatable there
Mods are subjected to rules if a mod did abuse their power in that manner the community would be in uproar and most likely said mod would be removed from being a mod (at the very least)


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Wagimawr said:


> I'm really thinking Anontalk is a good place for you guys to go hang out.
> 
> Lots of free speech (and pedophiles! hmm) there.


you mean 4 chan, you know the truce right ?


----------



## Vader7476

katorade said:


> Jesus, I can't believe I'm coming back to this. At least it's a different argument this time.
> 
> I'm not sure how many times I'll have to say this, but DIMENSIONS IS NOT AMERICA. DIMENSIONS, NOT A DEMOCRACY. Your freedom of speech does nothing for you here. You signed away your rights to it when you signed the terms of service when you joined up for this site. A moderator could go around and edit every single one of your posts to say "I'm a little girl and I pee-peed in my pants" and there's not a single thing you could do about it. They could then also ban you for being underage if they felt like it, whether you really were or not.
> 
> Also, 2005 was 4 years ago. 4. Years. 4 yearrrrrrrrrrrs. Is that somehow NOT long enough to get a grasp of the rules? I could get a degree in that amount of time.



I'm not sure how many times I'll have to tell you that I'm not arguing that Dimensions is a democracy. How many times can I say, "Conrad pays the bills, makes the rules, and whatever he says goes." 

4 years was more than enough time, and stories adhered to those rules. Now they've changed again, and new stories will adhere to the new rules. Mossy had a statement about rules and that they were in place before she made that thread about Fullerton. I chimed in clarifying a bit of the history of the rules on the site, as it had been brought up, not in defense of anything.


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## katorade

Dwavenhobble said:


> Dims is not America: True
> Dims is not a Democracy: Very Debatable there
> Mods are subjected to rules if a mod did abuse their power in that manner the community would be in uproar and most likely said mod would be removed from being a mod (at the very least)




No, there is no debate. Dimensions is not a democracy. The only way you can have a say in anything is to make suggestions, or ask questions why something exists the way it does, and if you're _lucky_, they'll be taken in to consideration and acted upon. There's no voting here. There's no congress. Mods are here to enforce rules put in place. If they had the okay to edit one of your posts, then they certainly could, and there's nothing YOU could do about it.


----------



## katorade

Vader7476 said:


> I'm not sure how many times I'll have to tell you that no one is arguing that Dimensions is a democracy. How many times can I say, "Conrad pays the bills, makes the rules, and whatever he says goes."
> 
> 4 years was more than enough time, and stories adhered to those rules. Now they've changed again, and new stories will adhere to the new rules. Mossy had a statement about rules and that they were in place before she made that thread about Fullerton. I chimed in clarifying a bit of the history of the rules on the site, as it had been brought up, not in defense of anything.



Then why even discuss laws on the national level at all, regardless of whether or not you were the one to bring it up?

According to others in this thread apparently on YOUR side, there have been over 100 stories that DIDN'T adhere to those rules that managed to slip under the radar. The only reason one was identified AT ALL was because a member that wasn't even a mod happened across one. None of this argument would have even happened if the rules were followed or enforced to the letter from the beginning. I realize enforcing them is difficult because of a lack of man power, but a lax approach isn't the right way to go about it, nor is an author's failure to read or understand the rules an excuse.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

katorade said:


> No, there is no debate. Dimensions is not a democracy. The only way you can have a say in anything is to make suggestions, or ask questions why something exists the way it does, and if you're _lucky_, they'll be taken in to consideration and acted upon. There's no voting here. There's no congress. Mods are here to enforce rules put in place. If they had the okay to edit one of your posts, then they certainly could, and there's nothing YOU could do about it.


True but if said mod edited the whole forum so every persons post read 
Bababooie bababooie then im pretty sure people wouldnt just go oh well thats fair enough.
Dims isnt a dictatorship either as people would just walk out for example if they made a rule saying all story characters had to be over 69 years old I think many writers would walk away, thats the option present as a last resort, just walk away, less members means less add money so its harder to keep the site running.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

katorade said:


> Then why even discuss laws on the national level at all, regardless of whether or not you were the one to bring it up?
> 
> According to others in this thread apparently on YOUR side, there have been over 100 stories that DIDN'T adhere to those rules that managed to slip under the radar. The only reason one was identified AT ALL was because a member that wasn't even a mod happened across one. None of this argument would have even happened if the rules were followed or enforced to the letter from the beginning. I realize enforcing them is difficult because of a lack of man power, but a lax approach isn't the right way to go about it, nor is an author's failure to read or understand the rules an excuse.


THE RULES HAVE BEEN CHANGED
how many more times must that be said, the stories didnt slip under the rules as it said the characters must be mature which was clarified originally to be above the age of consent for the country in which the story was set, the rules have been changed


----------



## katorade

Dwavenhobble said:


> True but if said mod edited the whole forum so every persons post read
> Bababooie bababooie then im pretty sure people wouldnt just go oh well thats fair enough.
> Dims isnt a dictatorship either as people would just walk out for example if they made a rule saying all story characters had to be over 69 years old I think many writers would walk away, thats the option present as a last resort, just walk away, less members means less add money so its harder to keep the site running.



I never said you had to be okay with it. Of course if every post was edited, people probably wouldn't bother to come here. That goes without saying. What DOES happen is that posts are edited here every day. People are banned every day (or at least frequently). They can appeal to have it reversed, and lord knows I've done it myself, but that doesn't mean they'll get their way. 

This site truly is in place for its members and not just the owner, yes, but when a large number of them take issue with a particular aspect of the board, do you think that the management is really going to go with the unpopular vote? If a vote actually WAS put in place and the people that actually read the forums and would actually see a vote in existence, do you really think they'd vote to allow children in erotic stories? Good luck with that.

Also, in regards to underage characters with minor, non-sexual roles like passers-by getting stories deleted, take that up with a mod, not the members. That wasn't what was called for as an action initially, so don't try to pin it on us. Really, though, it's a self-defeating argument. If the characters were so minor, changing their ages wouldn't matter. Since you fight for them, apparently they're not so minor. So you tell us, which way do you go?


----------



## katorade

Dwavenhobble said:


> THE RULES HAVE BEEN CHANGED
> how many more times must that be said, the stories didnt slip under the rules as it said the characters must be mature which was clarified originally to be above the age of consent for the country in which the story was set, the rules have been changed




The issue was brought up BEFORE the rules changed, bucko. That's why there was a problem to begin with. The problem existed with the rules that WERE in place ALREADY.


----------



## Vader7476

katorade said:


> Then why even discuss laws on the national level at all, regardless of whether or not you were the one to bring it up?
> 
> According to others in this thread apparently on YOUR side, there have been over 100 stories that DIDN'T adhere to those rules that managed to slip under the radar. The only reason one was identified AT ALL was because a member that wasn't even a mod happened across one. None of this argument would have even happened if the rules were followed or enforced to the letter from the beginning. I realize enforcing them is difficult because of a lack of man power, but a lax approach isn't the right way to go about it, nor is an author's failure to read or understand the rules an excuse.



There's definitely room for discussion for anything. A lot of it is very fun and educational. If someone, even if the thread isn't about that, says something that goes against what my knowledge is, I try and have that clarified for me, or deliver what I know to be true. 

What rules? The 2005 rules? I can't comment, because I don't search for them typically. I know that there were some on the main site, which gets less and less views compared to the forum, and that things on there slip by because they have to be retrofitted to the newer rules. It takes longer. 

The one that was identified was brand new. It was by a lovely writer that goes by Onion88. Fullerton Acadamy was about an all girls' school. The only reason it slipped by was because up until the most recent chapter, the author had avoided ages. So it was assumed it was like an all girls' college by the mods. Once it was posted that it wasn't, it needed to be editted. I do not know the specifics of what happened next. I think, from what had been described, is that Mossy brought it up, and a quick edit was made(To make characters 18) just to keep it up while new edits were going to be made to help make it more sensical. Like defining it was a college, etc. But it was pulled on principle of the previous knowledge I guess. I do not know.

I only prefer consistancy and clear rules(Ideally I'd like no rules in regards to literature, but I admit that Conrad doesn't want that on his site and respect it, therefore don't clamor for it as if it were my right). Neither of which we have at the moment. There is a story of which I help with called The Alice Saga, done by my favorite writer Mollycoddles. In it, all characters are 18. It's been pulled off the forum for reasons that I do not know. It's been taking place over a school year(High School) and involving only seniors, so the only explanation that another writer was able to think of was that maybe the girls were 17 at one point...but they were meant to be 18 going into the school year and presumably turn 19 when summer happens. Of the 26 chapters, I can not think of any character that's underage, even in passing.

And I think we both agree, the rules need to be followed by Mods and Members.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

katorade said:


> I never said you had to be okay with it. Of course if every post was edited, people probably wouldn't bother to come here. That goes without saying. What DOES happen is that posts are edited here every day. People are banned every day (or at least frequently). They can appeal to have it reversed, and lord knows I've done it myself, but that doesn't mean they'll get their way.
> 
> This site truly is in place for its members and not just the owner, yes, but when a large number of them take issue with a particular aspect of the board, do you think that the management is really going to go with the unpopular vote? If a vote actually WAS put in place and the people that actually read the forums and would actually see a vote in existence, do you really think they'd vote to allow children in erotic stories? Good luck with that.
> 
> Also, in regards to underage characters with minor, non-sexual roles like passers-by getting stories deleted, take that up with a mod, not the members. That wasn't what was called for as an action initially, so don't try to pin it on us. Really, though, it's a self-defeating argument. If the characters were so minor, changing their ages wouldn't matter. Since you fight for them, apparently they're not so minor. So you tell us, which way do you go?



Ive said before and I'll say it again I agree that children shouldnt be main characters but I dont get how no kids at all ever in a story not even in passing could be supporting pedophillia its like saying the Little Sisters in Bioshock the game promotes violence towards children or pedophilla.

The original rules were above age of consent which for many areas is 16, now if were saying this is a porn site then its true 18+ for porn is fair but as people are saying its not then I dont get why the age of consent isnt sufficient.

If you want stories written in a GTA world I'll happily write an apocalyptic Children of Men style story but unless were going to set every story from now on in a childless world they can never have kids, Never go anywhere where youd expect kids, heck not even anything child related in any way could be written in. now Im sorry but i think I walked probably walked pased someone under 18 today. this is the real world and its part of it


----------



## Dwavenhobble

katorade said:


> The issue was brought up BEFORE the rules changed, bucko. That's why there was a problem to begin with. The problem existed with the rules that WERE in place ALREADY.


Thats kind of how things work you know debate starts then rules change but Im objecting because stories from long before the rules change were left but newer stories from before the rules change have been removed, The rules either apply to the whole site or none of it you cant pick and choose when to apply them


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

All this arguing....gee, do you really think the kiddie fuck stories are going back up anytime soon?


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## Vader7476

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> All this arguing....gee, do you really think the kiddie fuck stories are going back up anytime soon?



Nope.

Ten character posting limit!


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> All this arguing....gee, do you really think the kiddie fuck stories are going back up anytime soon?


so age of consent laws mean nothing, if someone is under 18 yet the country says the age of consent is 16 its still kiddie fucking is it , really ?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Dwavenhobble said:


> so age of consent laws mean nothing, if someone is under 18 yet the country says the age of consent is 16 its still kiddie fucking is it , really ?



So you fuck sixteen year olds on a regular basis there, Dwav?


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Vader7476 said:


> I only prefer consistancy and clear rules(Ideally I'd like no rules in regards to literature, but I admit that Conrad doesn't want that on his site and respect it, therefore don't clamor for it as if it were my right). Neither of which we have at the moment. There is a story of which I help with called The Alice Saga, done by my favorite writer Mollycoddles. In it, all characters are 18. It's been pulled off the forum for reasons that I do not know. It's been taking place over a school year(High School) and involving only seniors, so the only explanation that another writer was able to think of was that maybe the girls were 17 at one point...but they were meant to be 18 going into the school year and presumably turn 19 when summer happens. Of the 26 chapters, I can not think of any character that's underage, even in passing.
> 
> And I think we both agree, the rules need to be followed by Mods and Members.


Look at Mine I had three chapters pulled the possible reasons
1)in one chapter I mentioned the character walking off and a child staring, that was basically the line there, the only other possible reason would have been its mild link to the Alice Saga or finally the last chapter did get a bit sexual but no more so than any in the erotica subforum heck compared to some there it was quite tame


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> So you fuck sixteen year olds on a regular basis there, Dwav?



No but I bet 17 year old guys in places with 16 as the age of consent do.
Also Dont dodge the question are you really now going to say age of consent laws mean nothing and no-one should fuck till they are over 18 or should I go for the hardline American church stance of not until marriage ?


----------



## katorade

Dwavenhobble said:


> No but I bet 17 year old guys in places with 16 as the age of consent do.
> Also Dont dodge the question are you really now going to say age of consent laws mean nothing and no-one should fuck till they are over 18 or should I go for the hardline American church stance of not until marriage ?



I am guessing they are in place at 18+ because of the location of the servers, which is California, or Conrad is going by the age of consent in California because he lives there, and because he is the owner of the site, it's more plausible to go with the age in his home state since he's technically the one responsible for the content of this site. 

The age of consent in California is 18.

I'm also going to harbor a guess that it's 18+ because of the age requirement of Dimensions itself, though I'm not sure if that had any part in the decision.


----------



## Paquito

Underage sex laws don't mean that people who are younger than 18 can't have sex period, it just means that people over 18 can't have sex with minors. Minors can have sex with minors though, it's called highschool.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

free2beme04 said:


> Underage sex laws don't mean that people who are younger than 18 can't have sex period, it just means that people over 18 can't have sex with minors. Minors can have sex with minors though, it's called highschool.



Sorry im not super up on US law Uk law states its still illegal and one of the participates can be prosecuted if the other presses charges (dont ask its very wierd to work it out)


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

So, Dwav, if you're not wanting to screw any high school kids, why is it so important to you to read stroke stories about them?


Oh, and wtf does being an American or church have to do with fucking children/teenagers? If that's your thang, then just say it. I mean, it's LEGAL and all to fuck older teens.....why would you be ashamed of it?


----------



## katorade

free2beme04 said:


> Underage sex laws don't mean that people who are younger than 18 can't have sex period, it just means that people over 18 can't have sex with minors. Minors can have sex with minors though, it's called highschool.



It technically doesn't matter either way since it's not a legal issue, and as it was stated, isn't illegal to write about. The issue comes into play because of the fact that the fiction on this site is read by a membership meant for adult readers. While not illegal to have adults reading sexual fiction about underage characters, it IS extremely tactless and against the views of and social mores for the majority of this website.

That is, of course, unless someone wants to step forward and say they're okay with jerking off to children. Besides Dan, that is.


----------



## Paquito

katorade said:


> It technically doesn't matter either way since it's not a legal issue, and as it was stated, isn't illegal to write about. The issue comes into play because of the fact that the fiction on this site is read by a membership meant for adult readers. While not illegal to have adults reading sexual fiction about underage characters, it IS extremely tactless and against the views of and social mores for the majority of this website.
> 
> That is, of course, unless someone wants to step forward and say they're okay with jerking off to children. Besides Dan, that is.



Oh yea, I know that that doesn't apply to written text, but I wanted to make sure that it was clear what is legal and illegal in America IRL.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> So, Dwav, if you're not wanting to screw any high school kids, why is it so important to you to read stroke stories about them?
> 
> 
> Oh, and wtf does being an American or church have to do with fucking children/teenagers? If that's your thang, then just say it. I mean, it's LEGAL and all to fuck older teens.....why would you be ashamed of it?



Im a writer, Im objecting to new rules that dont make any real sense, over 16 in many areas is considered mature enough for sex the rules stated mature which was clarified as the appropriate age of consent for the stories setting.

It is not my thing as you put it to go out and fuck highschool girls I dont specifically target highschool girls (this is not to be taken to mean I would intentionally go with under age of consent girls, but to mean would go with someone who appealed to me who was between the age of consent and roughly my own age)


----------



## exile in thighville

TraciJo67 said:


> Vader, you may want to google "Jack McLellan" for an example of what can go very, very wrong when a person is not technically breaking any laws but is, nonetheless, a great big sack of excrement-coated human vomit. See how "protected" his "first amendment rights" were. He broke no laws. He wrote a blog about his love for and worship of little girls. He didn't have a criminal record, has committed no sex crimes (that we know of) and didn't actually break any laws by posting his loverly stories about how much he'd love to bone young girls.
> 
> Some interesting bits about how the judicial system is treating him. He now has a restraining order issued by a Los Angeles Superior Court judge, ordering him to stay more than 30 feet away from any child under the age of 18. Local law enforcement officials have helped concerned citizens by posting his picture on the Internet and around the town he was spotted in, labeling him a notorious pedophile advocate. I'm thinking that right about ... now ... McLellan probably wishes that he hadn't exercised his "first amendment right" to free and protected speech.



this man harmed the well-being of children. even if he himself didn't engage sexually with them (and i don't buy that he didn't), he provided information for other pedophiles, who make decisions freely of him - to use to harm children. he's a huge piece of shit for being not only unrepentant but actively seeking to incite others to do things he won't. not because he's a pedophile.

i'm not sure about that restraining order, which may be unconstitutional but the state handed out smirking, knowing that no judge would favor an appeal even if. there's no harm is smearing someone who admits to being what they're smeared as - he waived his right to sue for libel basically. 

you're being way too smug and self-satisfied about this guy...where does he exhibit anything resembling remorse or wishing that he didn't? he got what he wanted.

you can't equate writing down unsavory fantasies about fake children with gleefully writing an instruction manual on how to endanger real children. i mean you _can_...if you took remedial english and your lexapro needs a refill.


----------



## mergirl

I have only read the first few pages of this debate. Hmm.. i never realised the age of consent was 18 in the U.S. How come you cant drink till your 21?? THREE WHOLE YEARS WITHOUT BEER GOGGLES!!!! WTF!! 
Our age of consent is 16 and we can drink at 18. We can't buy a hamster till we are 17 which is a whole other story for a whole other board, which has banned written all over it!!!


----------



## exile in thighville

how old do you have to be to write erotica about said hamster


----------



## mergirl

logically, i would say 14.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

mergirl said:


> I have only read the first few pages of this debate. Hmm.. i never realised the age of consent was 18 in the U.S. How come you cant drink till your 21?? THREE WHOLE YEARS WITHOUT BEER GOGGLES!!!! WTF!!
> Our age of consent is 16 and we can drink at 18. We can't buy a hamster till we are 17 which is a whole other story for a whole other board, which has banned written all over it!!!


actually in a lot of states is 16 some its 18 but not a huge amount


----------



## TraciJo67

exile in thighville said:


> this man harmed the well-being of children. even if he himself didn't engage sexually with them (and i don't buy that he didn't), he provided information for other pedophiles, who make decisions freely of him - to use to harm children. he's a huge piece of shit for being not only unrepentant but actively seeking to incite others to do things he won't. not because he's a pedophile.



Wow. This, coming from someone who claims that there's nothing inherently wrong (harmful) with stories about men having sex with children. That's a stretch, Dan. He posted photos of children, public places where children congregate (coz, you know, the average pedophile is too freakin' stupid to know that kids go to school, to parks, to arcades and to Build-A-Bear sessions at the local mall), and mostly lots of disgusting rationalizations in an attempt to normalize his obsession with little girls. He didn't post names/addresses/social security numbers/codes to override security systems. I agree with you that what he's done is harmful. I just disagree with your rationale on what is/isn't harmful. He hasn't harmed a child. He hasn't broken any laws (aside from violating the dubiously issued restraining order, that is). He is a man who fantasizes about sex with little girls, and he encourages other pedophiles to indulge in their fantasies as well. That ... is ... pretty ... much ... what ... stories ... about ... adults ... having ... sex ... with ... minors ... does. Attempts to normalize. 




> you're being way too smug and self-satisfied about this guy...where does he exhibit anything resembling remorse or wishing that he didn't? he got what he wanted.



He got what he wanted -- homelessness, his site taken down, driven out of his home state, around-the-clock surveillance, nation-wide media attention, a restraining order that makes it downright impossible for him to mingle with the children that he so loves to photograph, and most recently, a stint in jail. Hey -- if he got what he wanted, who am I to stand in his way? I'm thrilled for him! 

That said, I think you're confusing my unwillingness to piss on his burning corpse with an intent to start the fire that turns him into a smoldering pile. 



> anyway i'd like to point out to other huge pieces of shit that um - nice try. you can't equate writing down unsavory fantasies about fake children with gleefully writing an instruction manual on how to endanger real children. i mean you _can_...if you took remedial english and your lexapro needs a refill.



You've confused the reason that I posted what I did about him. 

Some very unhappy "writers" have been questioning why Conrad is taking a hard line with the kiddie porn. I'm suggesting that perhaps he understands what many seem unable to comprehend: It doesn't have to be illegal to bring a veritable shit-storm of unwanted attention raining down upon your hapless self.


----------



## exile in thighville

TraciJo67 said:


> Attempts to normalize.



you keep saying this and you keep ignoring that you need to actually, you know, link the two beyond an alarmist hysteric bullshit assumption.

watch me disprove this bullshit: guy x jacks off to story, isn't attracted to children. OMFG HOW U DO DIS??!!?

one guy out of millions plays video game about shooting, shoots up school. BAN GAME OBVIUZLY

you won't get the reference, but cypress hill wrote "how i could just kill a man," in lieu of actually killing a man. i'm pretty sure they still haven't.

stories do the complete opposite of normalize actually, they're there for fantasy, you know, unreality.

my god alarmist hysteric bullshit lynching is so goddamn off the charts stupid.


----------



## JoyJoy

exile in thighville said:


> you keep saying this and you keep ignoring that you need to actually, you know, link the two beyond an alarmist hysteric bullshit assumption.
> 
> watch me disprove this bullshit: guy x jacks off to story, isn't attracted to children. OMFG HOW U DO DIS??!!?
> 
> one guy out of millions plays video game about shooting, shoots up school. BAN GAME OBVIUZLY
> 
> you won't get the reference, but cypress hill wrote "how i could just kill a man," in lieu of actually killing a man. i'm pretty sure they still haven't.
> 
> stories do the complete opposite of normalize actually, they're there for fantasy, you know, unreality.
> 
> my god alarmist hysteric bullshit lynching is so goddamn off the charts stupid.


You know, Dan, your overbearing insolent arrogance has become such a joke. You post here as if your experience and knowledge is the be-all and end-all of life as we know it, and in doing so, you completely discredit yourself because you're so abrasive and condescending in your presentation. It's gotten really, really old and boring. 


Before you read the following paragraph, please imagine me saying it out loud in a high-pitched, squealing, breathless voice while I wave my hands in excited hand gestures. I certainly wouldn't want you to be disappointed. 

Some of us have actually witnessed the changes that have come about over the past 20-30 years, with the development of extremely violent video games, the prevalence of violence and sex in movies and music, not to mention all that is available to anyone of any age on the internet. You can roll your eyes at me and rant about how stupid I am all you want, nothing will convince me that these things don't desensitize kids...hell, everyone... to the value of human life and respect for others. Sure, maybe a small percentage commit large-scale crimes, but the saddest crime of all is that kids aren't allowed to stay kids for long because of exposure to this. I've watched this happen. I've seen the difference between kids 20 years ago and kids now. I'd wager Traci has, too. I'd take time to find research and proof to support this, but frankly, I doubt you'd believe it since you're so convinced of your own knowledge, and it's just not worth the time to try to prove anything to you. So when you're done telling us how stupid we are, sit back down and shut up.


----------



## TraciJo67

exile in thighville said:


> you keep saying this and you keep ignoring that you need to actually, you know, link the two beyond an alarmist hysteric bullshit assumption.
> 
> watch me disprove this bullshit: guy x jacks off to story, isn't attracted to children. OMFG HOW U DO DIS??!!?
> 
> one guy out of millions plays video game about shooting, shoots up school. BAN GAME OBVIUZLY
> 
> you won't get the reference, but cypress hill wrote "how i could just kill a man," in lieu of actually killing a man. i'm pretty sure they still haven't.
> 
> stories do the complete opposite of normalize actually, they're there for fantasy, you know, unreality.
> 
> my god alarmist hysteric bullshit lynching is so goddamn off the charts stupid.



Y'know, Dan -- I seldom do this, because I'm not a fan of the "whip 'em out and let's compare size" concept in terms of winning an argument. But really. Come on. Really. Clearly, I'm not ignorant. Clearly, I'm not stupid. Clearly, in fact, I am far better educated than you, and working in a field that does, gosh darn, examine things like ... cognitive dissonance, abnormal behaviors, human freakin' psychology. Bottom line: I just may know a thing or two about a thing or two, Danny boy. I may not be the stark-raving bible-thumping minivan-driving latte-sipping soccer mom that you seem to think I am. And although I know that anyone over 30 is crusty, useless, and ancient beyond time to the Youth Of America (YOA!), I'm a bit more than passingly acquainted with Cypress Hill. Shocking, I know.

I'm talking about one thing, and you're screeching around me about something else altogether. Calm down. Really. Your examples aren't appropriate in terms of trying to "prove" your point. What you aren't getting is that some cognitive disorders are so downright repugnant to society in general -- to a society that values protecting one's young, for example -- that tolerance for one's "right" to engage in "fantasy" (when fantasy is something other than quietly wanking in the bathroom with the curtains drawn and the door bolted shut) is ... well, non-existent. I get that writing stories about having sex with 12-year-old girls isn't the same as ... having sex with a 12-year-old. But in terms of asking other people to tolerate (far less understand!) the mindset that would *openly acknowledge* _ fantasizing about it _ as your "Dog-given, First Amendment Right!!" .... <searching, searching> ... what language can I use to forge a bond with YOA? ... oh, yes ... EPIC FAIL, DUDE. It isn't normal. It is distinctly abnormal. Now, pay attention: I'm not suggesting that the fantasy = castrate 'em, lock 'em up, throw away the key. Fantasies are private. We're not, then, _privy_ to them ... are we? Sharing them with others is ... _not private_. Finding others who also love wanking to that which should not be openly wanked to? That's an attempt to normalize it. If it happens in NAMBLA, it should stay in NAMBLA. Nobody -- and I mean NOBODY -- is going to throw roses at your feet for protecting the rights of an adult male to publish "harmless internet stories" about banging a 15-year-old hottie because it's not _real_, after all. That same crowd forming a lynch mob over *this* issue may have no problem with shoot 'em up, cop-killing, pimpin' & ho'ing gangsta rappin' video games. I do, to an extent, but that's an apple and right now, we're talking about oranges.

In other words, I don't CARE if a pedophile wannabe wanks to "harmless" stories about raping kids and then NEVER GOES OUT AND RAPES A KID. I'm not suggesting that he'll do so. I'm telling you that the fact that he WANTS TO is something that he should bloody well keep to himself. The second he crosses the line, writes a story about it, seeks to publish it at Dimensions, well then ... he's trying to normalize something that is so abnormal that ... say it with me ... IT SHOULD STAY IN HIS HEAD. 

Finally, I know you want to screech yet again about how it's not illegal and I'm just an alarmist, hysterically shrieking member of the Harper Valley PTA (you won't get that reference ). I'll pre-empt you. I know that it's not illegal. I DON'T CARE. And with that, I win.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Dwavenhobble said:


> Im a writer, Im objecting to new rules that dont make any real sense, over 16 in many areas is considered mature enough for sex the rules stated mature which was clarified as the appropriate age of consent for the stories setting.
> 
> It is not my thing as you put it to go out and fuck highschool girls I dont specifically target highschool girls (this is not to be taken to mean I would intentionally go with under age of consent girls, but to mean would go with someone who appealed to me who was between the age of consent and roughly my own age)




Well, you know, I had thought that I had explained, in an earlier post, why Conrad might feel it's best to pull those stories.....for the sake of the whole site. 
You do realize the stigma that would be attached to this site if sex stories about children/people under the age of 18 were allowed to stand? 
Isn't the good of the entire site, that so many people draw different things from, important as a whole? 
Why are you so vehemently defending the "right" to post stories with underage characters, on a private site? It makes you seem short-sighted in your visions of the good of the entire community when you take this stance, IMO.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Well, you know, I had thought that I had explained, in an earlier post, why Conrad might feel it's best to pull those stories.....for the sake of the whole site.
> You do realize the stigma that would be attached to this site if sex stories about children/people under the age of 18 were allowed to stand?
> Isn't the good of the entire site, that so many people draw different things from, important as a whole?
> Why are you so vehemently defending the "right" to post stories with underage characters, on a private site? It makes you seem short-sighted in your visions of the good of the entire community when you take this stance, IMO.


Age of consent, you keep glossing over age of consent rules exsistence, you know that law that says over a certain age its legal to have sex.

If this is truly about protecting minors then the rules need to be applied to the whole archive of stories and the site itself sealed with a warning entrance like many porn sites use because at the moment it has no warning and any minors stumbling upon the stuff here or even kids finding here by accident it opens the site up to potential lawsuits for failure to warn people coming here.

Are you really now using what is a very old outdated view that kids age then at 18 they become adults suddenly in a flash they dont become teenagers and gradually mature now it all happens in the day they turn 18 they go from a child to a full grown mature adult ?

So explain why the Alice Saga is gone
Why is the Amber Saga gone 
come on if youve explainned why those stories have gone Im sure I missed it so a nice copy and paste will cover it ?


----------



## exile in thighville

JoyJoy said:


> Some of us have actually witnessed the changes that have come about over the past 20-30 years, with the development of extremely violent video games, the prevalence of violence and sex in movies and music, not to mention all that is available to anyone of any age on the internet. You can roll your eyes at me and rant about how stupid I am all you want, nothing will convince me that these things don't desensitize kids...hell, everyone... to the value of human life and respect for others. Sure, maybe a small percentage commit large-scale crimes, but the saddest crime of all is that kids aren't allowed to stay kids for long because of exposure to this. I've watched this happen. I've seen the difference between kids 20 years ago and kids now. I'd wager Traci has, too. I'd take time to find research and proof to support this, but frankly, I doubt you'd believe it since you're so convinced of your own knowledge, and it's just not worth the time to try to prove anything to you. So when you're done telling us how stupid we are, sit back down and shut up.



well hey, this was a Good Post, so you can take yourself out of that "we" (not that you were ever in it in the first place - don't feel the tasteless need like that actual douche contingent to whip out your IQ or something and we'll stay that way)

no one's arguing that kids aren't kids anymore. and lots of kids haven't been kids for much longer. no one's defending the people that have contributed to that. unless some of them read this forum. that stuff _does_ desensitize kids to sex and violence, not to mention even more deep-seated misogyny and racism.

but what connection are you making to the topic of underage sex stories, which are written for masturbation, not catharsis, and personal use, rather than something like video games or early sex that is affected by social pressures? that they desensitize a sane person to committing a crime? that they develop a pathology they don't have? 

just to get it on the record that i don't think this shit belongs here anymore than y'all do, clearly. just that it's always been here and significantly affected the development of the willy wonka/hansel and gretel axis of feeding-inclineds. basically, that we have a lot of would-be child molestors in our ranks, even some females.

so maybe i shouldn't be the only one publicly outraged at both the faux-moralistic witch hunt and the subtle intimation by the usual subtle people to go back in the closet on our own goddamn forum.

what really is stupid is how much wasted time goes into this sort of "renovation." mods - look. search "12 year old" "13 year old" etc on the stories page. change all instances to "18 years old." is it really that hard? there are 18 year olds in high school. whatever gets these worrywarts through the night. none of the stories that i know of say anything about like "her first loose tooth." and most of them are lies anyway: the few real 11 year olds at 300+ lbs aren't exactly good looking. i know, i know. next thing i'll tell you real 1000 lb. women need the bathroom too. 

if you still think the stories have to be deleted after that, i don't know much about pleasing worrywarts. maybe find them an internship with Perverted Justice.


----------



## Fascinita

TraciJo67 said:


> Finding others who also love wanking to that which should not be openly wanked to...



...is a political act that goes well beyond mere fantasy.

To wit: The politicizing right here of the issue of whether to publish or not to publish wank fodder for those who fantasize about the underage.

And if we're talking about whether to publish something or not, the _publisher_--not the author, and not his supporters--gets to decide the merits of material.

Some people *cough* try to make this about good and evil ("nature abhors a lynch mob"), when it's really about politics.

Outnumbered? Too bad, sucka. That's probably as it should be. Perhaps go somewhere else with your "art," where you can band with others like you. Looks like an uphill battle for you, from where I'm standing, though.


----------



## Fascinita

Dwavenhobble said:


> very old outdated view



GEF, I do believe the kid called you "old." Twice. 

Need a hanky?


----------



## Fascinita

exile in thighville said:


> our own goddamn forum.



Clarification of "our," please?


----------



## Santaclear

I got art.


----------



## Fascinita

Santaclear said:


> I got art.



Got Art? ..


----------



## Santaclear

Fascinita said:


> Got Art? ..



Yep, I got him.


----------



## JoyJoy

exile in thighville said:


> well hey, this was a Good Post, so you can take yourself out of that "we" (not that you were ever in it in the first place - don't feel the tasteless need like that actual douche contingent to whip out your IQ or something and we'll stay that way)
> 
> blah.


When I agree with the people you're calling the "douche contingent", I'm going to include myself in the "we", whether that was your intent or not, and I'll continue to respond in the nature of which your posts come across with a chorus of "I know you are, but what am I?" ala Mr. Herman. I just can't take anything you say seriously anymore, and I'm quite sure I'm not alone.


----------



## Paquito

Fascinita said:


> GEF, I do believe the kid called you "old." Twice.
> 
> Need a hanky?



Faeries don't age. Violent videogames taught me that.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Dwavenhobble said:


> Age of consent, you keep glossing over age of consent rules exsistence, you know that law that says over a certain age its legal to have sex.
> 
> If this is truly about protecting minors then the rules need to be applied to the whole archive of stories and the site itself sealed with a warning entrance like many porn sites use because at the moment it has no warning and any minors stumbling upon the stuff here or even kids finding here by accident it opens the site up to potential lawsuits for failure to warn people coming here.
> 
> Are you really now using what is a very old outdated view that kids age then at 18 they become adults suddenly in a flash they dont become teenagers and gradually mature now it all happens in the day they turn 18 they go from a child to a full grown mature adult ?
> 
> So explain why the Alice Saga is gone
> Why is the Amber Saga gone
> come on if youve explainned why those stories have gone Im sure I missed it so a nice copy and paste will cover it ?



Sweet Pea....you totally missed the mark and seem intentionally obtuse in your zest to keep this argument going. No doubt you love the shock value and attention this seems to be garnering for you, but all this, and the law you keep pointing to, doesn't change the fact that this is a privately owned forum. 
Did you know that? That one guy, the person named Conrad that I referred to earlier, he runs the server. He OWNS the site. He has assistance from the mods who donate a lot of their personal time to this place, monetary donations from other supporters and a large membership/following here. 
HE decided to not let those stories stand that have under 18 characters in them. HE chose to maintain this site for people over 18. The "age of consent" doesn't mean jack shit in the grand scheme of things I just laid out for you here. 

I have also said earlier, even though I don't purport to know Conrad's mind or reasoning, that I thought it a very smart maneuver on his part to ixnay the sexual child references on this site. It's good business for a private site that offers a lot of things to a lot of people, not just people that write/read fap stories in the library, to not let that crap stand because it will bring the WRONG kind of attention to this place. It's not worth it to jeopardize the future or outlay of this site over some stories that have underage characters, IMHO. 

Get past your personal disappointments, stop having a tantrum and LOOK around outside of this one particular board to see that this place isn't just your personal library/fap ground. 

I don't know what the f*ck the grand Alice saga is....and don't give a f*ck to know and now highly suspect that it's all probably a good thing that I missed it. 
I'm not cutting and pasting anything nor have I hidden or misled about anything so now your posts are starting to seem paranoid to me. 
YOU should have cut and pasted those good ole Alice stories onto your hard drive, it looks like.......


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Fascinita said:


> GEF, I do believe the kid called you "old." Twice.
> 
> Need a hanky?





free2beme04 said:


> Faeries don't age. Violent videogames taught me that.




I'm starting to imagine spittle flying and keyboards being broken from angry pounding whilst reading some of the posts in this thread.......:doh: 


Speaking of violence......and sex stories.....should I write one about shoving my fairy wand up someone's arse? :batting:


----------



## Fascinita

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Speaking of violence......and sex stories.....should I write one about shoving my fairy wand up someone's arse? :batting:



Can you call it, "There Will Be Glitter"?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Fascinita said:


> Can you call it, "There Will Be Glitter"?



Nah, I think "Shut The Fuck Up Assclown" has a much nicer ring to it.......


----------



## TraciJo67

exile in thighville said:


> well hey, this was a Good Post, so you can take yourself out of that "we" (not that you were ever in it in the first place - don't feel the tasteless need like that actual douche contingent to whip out your IQ or something and we'll stay that way)



Not IQ points, precious. Experience. Education. Things that actually matter. 

But I am laughing at the fact that you've called me stupid, ignorant, hysterical, and old -- both directly and implied -- and I've no doubt that you wouldn't consider such a charming approach to be tasteless or douchebaggery. Coz when *you* do it, that's something else altogether -- right? <laughing>

And Dan? Your tactic may work on the breathless, fawning contingent. But rest assured, those of us with a few years and a little bit of wisdom under our belts are rather unimpressed by an appeal to ego. Especially when it comes from such a lofty turret of unmitigated, decidedly unmerited arrogance.


----------



## Vader7476

At this point, I'm embarrassed I was even a part of this from the beginning. How quickly this degenerated. How do you folk from the main board post in veritable pissing matches such at this? It seems like such a waste of time, it's not even a discussion anymore!



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I don't know what the f*ck the grand Alice saga is....and don't give a f*ck to know and now highly suspect that it's all probably a good thing that I missed it.



As I help with that story and put a lot of time and effort into it, I take offense to that. 

The Alice Saga, written by Mollycoddles, is a classic weight gain story, and there aren't any writers that I've talked to that haven't read it or see it as such. 

Anyone that considers themselves a writer or reader of WG fiction should check it out, I doubt they'd be displeased.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Vader7476 said:


> At this point, I'm embarrassed I was even a part of this from the beginning. How quickly this degenerated. How do you folk from the main board post in veritable pissing matches such at this? It seems like such a waste of time, it's not even a discussion anymore!
> 
> 
> 
> As I help with that story and put a lot of time and effort into it, I take offense to that.
> 
> The Alice Saga, written by Mollycoddles, is a classic weight gain story, and there aren't any writers that I've talked to that haven't read it or see it as such.
> 
> Anyone that considers themselves a writer or reader of WG fiction should check it out, I doubt they'd be displeased.



You seem to be one of the very people enjoying, and adding to, the pissing match here, Pot. 

You are offended that I don't read all the stories in the library- or care to? 
Oh yeah, your stuff is "art"....I should have been so honored......
Gee, do you read my stuff? 
It's okay if you don't.........I will suffer through it *feels faint* 


P.S. I'm a writer of BBW erotica.....not shit to do with weight gain. 
That kinda goes back to that stuff again about this place not just being about fetishes, eh?


----------



## Vader7476

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You seem to be one of the very people enjoying, and adding to, the pissing match here, Pot.
> 
> You are offended that I don't read all the stories in the library- or care to?
> Oh yeah, your stuff is "art"....I should have been so honored......
> Gee, do you read my stuff?
> It's okay if you don't.........I will suffer through it *feels faint*
> 
> 
> P.S. I'm a writer of BBW erotica.....not shit to do with weight gain.
> That kinda goes back to that stuff again about this place not just being about fetishes, eh?



I was actually discussing and being civil. The hostility you're showing me I have not done to you, no.

I'm offended that you'd openly dismiss something that you haven't read like that, not that you didn't read it. I have no problem at all with not reading a story for any number of reasons, but to say that you weren't missing anything and not reading it is an entirely different matter. 

If you don't feel what you produce is artful, my question would be if you spend time on the writing. Because if you do spend time writing your stories and try to make them good, then yes, I consider your stories art as well. I've already said though, that being art doesn't qualify as being good. 

Yes, I have read at least a couple of your stories. I try to read at least from each author on the site. Some are positively delightful on their first postings! 

Shit to do with weight gain? You're calling everything on the site that deals with weight gain shit? 

There's erotica in the Alice Saga as well. As the story has progressed, that has increased with it. 

I consider almost all of the library as fetish. I hesitate to say all, just in case there is an actual size acceptance piece in there, but can't recall that at the moment.


----------



## exile in thighville

Fascinita said:


> Clarification of "our," please?



those who have wanked to dims stories featuring underage protags


----------



## exile in thighville

TraciJo67 said:


> and old



nah, that's just your fear talking again. i don't know how old you are but i guarantee i know older - and wiser. any ageism here is all from the educated, experienced end.


----------



## exile in thighville

JoyJoy said:


> When I agree with the people you're calling the "douche contingent", I'm going to include myself in the "we", whether that was your intent or not, and I'll continue to respond in the nature of which your posts come across with a chorus of "I know you are, but what am I?" ala Mr. Herman. I just can't take anything you say seriously anymore, and I'm quite sure I'm not alone.



it's more of an "i know i am, so what" refrain. you're not in the douche contingent because you don't feel the need to deviate from the argument at hand to count my degrees. it's the little things that separate those who make arguments i respectfully call bullshit on from those who are just vile caricatures.


----------



## thatgirl08

blah blah blah 12 pages and the rule IS STILL THE SAME.


----------



## Fascinita

exile in thighville said:


> those who have wanked to dims stories featuring underage protags



Thanks for clarifying.

So is your claim then that it's always been part of Dims and it's always gonna be part of Dims, whether we try to root it out or not, so just chill?

I'm not clear on where it is you stand, since you've said that you don't think this "shit belongs here anymore than y'all do."

What is it upsets you in this brouhaha? I mean, this thread has been about people arguing all kinds of obfuscations that don't pertain--including fetish and preference and secrecy--but at heart what seems to be at stake is, "Who and what is Dimensions for?"... revolving around arguments about what should then be permitted here or not. Whatever your own stake is in this, it's not clear (at least to me) anymore.


----------



## Vader7476

Fascinita said:


> Thanks for clarifying.
> 
> So is your claim then that it's always been part of Dims and it's always gonna be part of Dims, whether we try to root it out or not, so just chill?
> 
> I'm not clear on where it is you stand, since you've said that you don't think this "shit belongs here anymore than y'all do."
> 
> What is it upsets you in this brouhaha? I mean, this thread has been about people arguing all kinds of obfuscations that don't pertain--including fetish and preference and secrecy--but at heart what seems to be at stake is, "Who and what is Dimensions for?"... revolving around arguments about what should then be permitted here or not. Whatever your own stake is in this, it's not clear (at least to me) anymore.



Just to jump in here before I head off for the night. 

Why can't it be for all of us? And why then can it not include everything? 

The heart of the matter is always what Conrad wants, but with him out of the equation. What would your ideal site be?

I think that area of subject is incredibly important and great for an open forum.


----------



## exile in thighville

Fascinita said:


> I mean, this thread has been about people arguing all kinds of obfuscations that don't pertain--including fetish and preference and secrecy--but at heart what seems to be at stake is, "Who and what is Dimensions for?"... revolving around arguments about what should then be permitted here or not.\



i haven't been "upset" about this since i saved everything i think i might "use" at some point. i mean, my current argument is that children are too ugly to fuck. 

i don't know why you think that stuff "doesn't pertain" - that basically sums up the people who Care about this stuff whereas the shitwave of whiners who Don't get to define what belongs to dimensions? the preference and secrecy thing will always be a specter that hangs over the heads of those who think they're being attacked for their _age_. 

but no, dimensions should not have these stories because (no joke) it's not mature enough to view them objectively outside of its prism of i-was-raped or i-have-children as anything but an incitement to commit crime and hurt people. and because conrad doesn't deserve to deal with the potential legalities.

then again, dimensions should not have a weight room or a paysite board either. mixing a fetish sanctuary, a porn infomerical, and uh, a cause or something, has only proven greater and greater with time to lead to hypocritical confusion in a stretched-thin attempt to please all audiences. down come the monopoly.


----------



## exile in thighville

Vader7476 said:


> Why can't it be for all of us? And why then can it not include everything?



it's suppressive. you're new.


----------



## Fascinita

exile in thighville said:


> i haven't been "upset" about this since i saved everything i think i might "use" at some point. i mean, my current argument is that children are too ugly to fuck.



You seemed rattled to me. That's why I asked.



> i don't know why you think that stuff "doesn't pertain" - that basically sums up the people who Care about this stuff whereas the shitwave of whiners who Don't get to define what belongs to dimensions? the preference and secrecy thing will always be a specter that hangs over the heads of those who think they're being attacked for their _age_.



Doesn't pertain because we don't need to enter into back-and-forths about what "fetish" (with several attempts at redefining fetish) means in order to have a discussion about whether stories that sexualize underage people belong here. Nor does the issue of sexualizing underage people pertain to all fetishists. No one is saying all of the library has to go away. It has existed (and continues to exist) benignly since Dims time immemorial.

The fact is, such stories don't belong here if the people in charge say they don't belong here. In effect, it doesn't matter who, other than the people in charge here, cares about what. If what bugs you is that the owner seems to care about the same things that the "shitwave of whiners" cares about, why not take that up with him directly? I'm honestly curious about what you're hoping to accomplish by attacking individual members here. 

Clarity, Dan. It's what's missing. I tried to follow your thinking in that post where you likened fetish to mental illness, but I honestly got lost. Maybe you're not interested in getting along with people you regard as the epitome of backwaterness, but if you're confused enough to really believe that whether one recognizes a Cypress Hill reference or not means shit about a person, how frontwater are _you_ anyway? Everybody and their grandma has heard of Cypress Hill, twenty years later. And that's not an insult. That's a call for co-operation. 



> but no, dimensions should not have these stories because (no joke) it's not mature enough to view them objectively outside of its prism of i-was-raped or i-have-children as anything but an incitement to commit crime and hurt people. and because conrad doesn't deserve to deal with the potential legalities.



You lionize Conrad but heap shit on the "mommies" who frequent Dimensions. Why?




> then again, dimensions should not have a weight room or a paysite board either. mixing a fetish sanctuary, a porn infomerical, and uh, a cause or something, has only proven greater and greater with time to lead to hypocritical confusion in a stretched-thin attempt to please all audiences. down come the monopoly.



I dunno. I have my criticisms of it. But in the end what keeps me coming back is the fat fellowship, so to speak. Everyone here is "into" something, and I think many struggle to carve a small place for themselves and those like them under the Dims umbrella. In the end, the diversity may be healthy. Who's to say. I wouldn't try to predict anything. Why should you?


----------



## Wild Zero

I AM SMARTER, OLDER AND MORE OUTRAGED THAN ANYONE IN THIS THREAD

/thread


----------



## exile in thighville

Fascinita said:


> Everybody and their grandma has heard of Cypress Hill, twenty years later. And that's not an insult.



neither was mine! if this was perceived as the source of my being "ageist" i'm sorry. not everyone my age has heard of cypress hill. they never really enjoyed the ubiquity of kanye or eminem even when they were on the simpsons.



Fascinita said:


> You lionize Conrad but heap shit on the "mommies" who frequent Dimensions. Why?



this couldn't be farther from the truth on both counts. conrad invented my dick and stuff, but that's all. i don't have a problem with mommies or any other "group," just people who the play the i've-had-it-worse or you-have-to-believe-me-because-i-_know_ game as a substitute for an argument. as if i've never met someone who's been abused and i'm suddenly going to be humbled into correlating it with something i believe deep down is a red herring.

the big heartfelt mental illness post is still the one to read, i'm not sure where it lost you, but *not* having a children thing outside of wg stories is why i'm putting every "fetish" under the same umbrella, and i explained that in there.


----------



## Fascinita

exile in thighville said:


> neither was mine! if this was perceived as the source of my being "ageist" i'm sorry. not everyone my age has heard of cypress hill. they never really enjoyed the ubiquity of kanye or eminem even when they were on the simpsons.



I don't know. It just seems less than cool to make knowing what you know the barometer of "knows what she's talking about and is worth listening to."

I understand that you're frustrated with what seems to you to be lack of understanding, but how about cutting people a little slack, giving them some credit, trying another tack? Here's why: You _know_ that Dimensions is not the only place where the majority of people are going to have their flags raised at stuff that sexualizes underage people. So I guess I wonder why lump this in with your defense of the existence of WG stuff at large? While you're here and there is some degree of fellowship--we're all here ostensibly for more or less similar reasons--why not focus on commonalities, work with what room you do have to change minds rationally and positively about WG, if you really see a lack of acceptance? Why does the existence or not on here of these "pedo" stories prove anything about acceptance for WG, anyway? And what you can't change, maybe isn't yours to change. Maintaining your integrity doesn't have to mean tilting at windmills. And I do think that when ideology forces us into positions that are too rigid, we end up losing our grounding and our ground.

I'm typing that as someone who struggles regularly with what I see as major problems of ideology here, and who occasionally tilts at windmills in both my public and private lives. But any paradise is a fool's paradise, I think. Can you live with imperfection? I think we all have to, to some degree.

The reason I got lost in your mental illness post is that, essentially, I think mental illness truly leaves no choice. And ultimately, we're talking about choices here. If we weren't, this thread wouldn't exist.

Take it easy.


----------



## TraciJo67

exile in thighville said:


> it's more of an "i know i am, so what" refrain. you're not in the douche contingent because you don't feel the need to deviate from the argument at hand to count my degrees. it's the little things that separate those who make arguments i respectfully call bullshit on from those who are just vile caricatures.



Dan.

Your response to anything that I've had to contribute has been an altogether dismissive, Readers Digest condensed version of "you're stupid!" and "you're ignorant/misinformed" and "you're hysterical and irrational." I doubt that even *you* actually believe that, Dan - so tell me, are you just lazy? My response to you was relevant, because your debating points were sloppy 'n choppy.


----------



## JoyJoy

exile in thighville said:


> it's more of an "i know i am, so what" refrain. you're not in the douche contingent because you don't feel the need to deviate from the argument at hand to count my degrees. it's the little things that separate those who make arguments i respectfully call bullshit on from those who are just vile caricatures.


 Here's the problem, though. You try so hard to show how cool and witty and cutting you can be (which we all know is the true mark of manhood) that you end up making an ass of yourself to most people. Your idea of "respectfully calling bullshit" is frankly, bullshit. See...we're all entitled to our own opinions, and no one says we all have to agree, but your "I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU SO YOU'RE STOOPID" tack that "I" see more often than not from you is...ineffective. But then maybe I've missed something from you because I started skimming over most of your posts a long time ago. I do see the same abrasive crap every time I do tune into you, though, so..there you are.


----------



## Tad

I've skipped more pages of this thread than I've read, but I've read enough to have figured out one thing:

The other guys in this debate are making me wonder if I want anything to do with the library. I have stories here that I don't consider to be morally reprehensible and I've read stories here that I likewise consider lovely and of a nature that would bother very few people at all. BUT it is almost beginning to feel that by continuing to take part in the library I'd be endorsing the views of some others here......whose views I most emphatically don't endorse. 

Is there any middle ground between those who prefer that the library not be on Dimensions and those who would prefer the library be an anything goes porn-fest? If there were more moderate voices in this thread I guess I missed them.


----------



## TraciJo67

Tad said:


> I've skipped more pages of this thread than I've read, but I've read enough to have figured out one thing:
> 
> The other guys in this debate are making me wonder if I want anything to do with the library. I have stories here that I don't consider to be morally reprehensible and I've read stories here that I likewise consider lovely and of a nature that would bother very few people at all. BUT it is almost beginning to feel that by continuing to take part in the library I'd be endorsing the views of some others here......whose views I most emphatically don't endorse.
> 
> Is there any middle ground between those who prefer that the library not be on Dimensions and those who would prefer the library be an anything goes porn-fest? If there were more moderate voices in this thread I guess I missed them.



Tad, it's not my call to make, and I admit that I don't read much in the library anyway. But my only objection is to stories where children are sexualized. I don't think there's anything wrong with children being a (non-sexualized) part of a storyline plot, and from what I read early on, I think that those who will be moderating the library are in agreement on that. If it's about consenting adults, the content doesn't matter to me. I dislike some aspects, such as forced weight gain and extreme objectification, but I classify those as "Don't like? Don't look!" issues. Kiddie porn - even the so-called 'soft core' stuff - is the ONLY aspect that I find so objectionable, I can't even pretend to be "reasonable" about it.


----------



## Tad

Traci--it goes way beyond that issue now though....clearly what some guys want here is far different from what I'm comfortable with. I suppose it was always that way, but I'd never been forced to confront it.

I guess it is the issue of romance versus erotica versus porn in my mind ( although of course what others define those things as will differ from what I define them as). I always thought of the library as a place for romance and erotica involving fat characters, not outright porn. 

A lot of things that may seem reasonably innocent on their own become.....not so much when placed against a backdrop of porn. The teen edition of People magazine looks tacky but not terrible on its own, but mix it into a rack of Hustler and whatnot and it has to be viewed differently, because the pople looking through there are looking for porn, and if they are reading it, they are reading it in that way.

So....it is a broader context thing, not the age thing (that is what it is, I'm really not that concerned about it--I would like things to have been clarified but I've accepted that some ambiguity is just going to be the way that things are).


----------



## mergirl

Tad said:


> Traci--it goes way beyond that issue now though....clearly what some guys want here is far different from what I'm comfortable with. I suppose it was always that way, but I'd never been forced to confront it.
> 
> I guess it is the issue of romance versus erotica versus porn in my mind ( although of course what others define those things as will differ from what I define them as). I always thought of the library as a place for romance and erotica involving fat characters, not outright porn.
> 
> A lot of things that may seem reasonably innocent on their own become.....not so much when placed against a backdrop of porn. The teen edition of People magazine looks tacky but not terrible on its own, but mix it into a rack of Hustler and whatnot and it has to be viewed differently, because the pople looking through there are looking for porn, and if they are reading it, they are reading it in that way.
> 
> So....it is a broader context thing, not the age thing (that is what it is, I'm really not that concerned about it--I would like things to have been clarified but I've accepted that some ambiguity is just going to be the way that things are).


This is actually an interesting point. I have pretty much stayed out of this debate because i think the same things are being argued around and around when surely everyone agrees that:
Child pornography (In any form) should not be allowed at dimensions.
I think thats pretty clear...or it should be.
I see what you mean Tad about the distinction between romance and pornography, though i think generally the library is where people go when they want to read something which turns them on, so stories with underage protaganists by this admission should be excluded from the stories there. Perhaps if there was a section for 'Romance'..hmmmm....even then.. it feels murky somehow but maby this is a construction of whats gone before, like you said. 
What was interesting about your point about 'innocence' is that (and maby this is for another thread) it highlighted that there is a need to talk about developmental Fa sexuality for many Fas. By this i mean that there have been many threads in which we have talked about being really young and experiencing sexual feelings relating to being an Fa. While sharing this may or may not be a pornographic experience for the person recounting thier experience it may be for someone reading it.......or not. 
I think that the discussing the discovery of sexuality and the organisation of early sexual memories relating to our current sexuality can be really useful as a shared experience; It can make us feel less weird for one (think winnie the pooh etc...grrr don't you deny it!!lol) and also it can help us come to terms with and make sense of our sexual selves as we are. (If we had no past frame of reference we wouldn't make total sense).
I have many past experiences which happened before i was of the age of consent (16 here) which now on retrospect and in context would be regarded as sexual because they pertained to my Fa sexuality. I think perhaps there, the only line between me expressing these happenings freely or them being censored is the forum i chose to write them on. 
I think this may well be for another thread though, as this one is convoluted enough. 
I know that you could then say, well people should be allowed to discuss their experiences of being raped/molested etc.. It is not their fault if someone then gets sexually aroused by thier story. I actually wonder if many of the stories in the library with underage protaganists were by Fas coming to terms with thier sexual development via storytelling as opposed to showing a prediliction for pedophillia. I'm sure some were though...so its good that there is a clear out going on.


----------



## exile in thighville

TraciJo67 said:


> and I admit that I don't read much in the library anyway





TraciJo67 said:


> and I admit that I don't read much in the library anyway





TraciJo67 said:


> and I admit that I don't read much in the library anyway





TraciJo67 said:


> and I admit that I don't read much in the library anyway





TraciJo67 said:


> and I admit that I don't read much in the library anyway





TraciJo67 said:


> and I admit that I don't read much in the library anyway





TraciJo67 said:


> and I admit that I don't read much in the library anyway





TraciJo67 said:


> and I admit that I don't read much in the library anyway





TraciJo67 said:


> and I admit that I don't read much in the library anyway



LOCK THREAD


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Sweet Pea....you totally missed the mark and seem intentionally obtuse in your zest to keep this argument going. No doubt you love the shock value and attention this seems to be garnering for you, but all this, and the law you keep pointing to, doesn't change the fact that this is a privately owned forum.
> Did you know that? That one guy, the person named Conrad that I referred to earlier, he runs the server. He OWNS the site. He has assistance from the mods who donate a lot of their personal time to this place, monetary donations from other supporters and a large membership/following here.
> HE decided to not let those stories stand that have under 18 characters in them. HE chose to maintain this site for people over 18. The "age of consent" doesn't mean jack shit in the grand scheme of things I just laid out for you here.
> 
> I have also said earlier, even though I don't purport to know Conrad's mind or reasoning, that I thought it a very smart maneuver on his part to ixnay the sexual child references on this site.


So in your mind 17 year olds are children no matter what age of consent laws say in about they are children then suddenly they turn 18 and are adults ?




Green Eyed Fairy said:


> It's good business for a private site that offers a lot of things to a lot of people, not just people that write/read fap stories in the library, to not let that crap stand because it will bring the WRONG kind of attention to this place. It's not worth it to jeopardize the future or outlay of this site over some stories that have underage characters, IMHO.
> 
> Get past your personal disappointments, stop having a tantrum and LOOK around outside of this one particular board to see that this place isn't just your personal library/fap ground.


Get past your personal high and mighty the Mods never overreact attitude, stop deluding yourself into thinking all the stories have gone and its all fine its obviously not, stories still exsist in the archive its still possible for minors to view 99% of the material here and theres still no warning sign to protect the sites ass from suing when some little kid is caught on here after stumbling in.



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I don't know what the f*ck the grand Alice saga is....and don't give a f*ck to know and now highly suspect that it's all probably a good thing that I missed it.


Living under a rock or something, The Alice saga is probably the definative modern weight gain story series its been running for so many years now and has so many spin offs offshoots etc and links intircately with other stories its the best example of convergent story writing there was.



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I'm not cutting and pasting anything nor have I hidden or misled about anything so now your posts are starting to seem paranoid to me.
> YOU should have cut and pasted those good ole Alice stories onto your hard drive, it looks like.......


so now providing sources in an arguement is against your principles come on thats like putting your fingers in your ears and singing la la la la Im not listening for 30 minutes then declaring your won the arguement.
Actually its easy to locate the stories because of their original site, the objection is here to their removal on such flimsy grounds as potentially underaged characters therefore implying unless every story states every characters age they should be banned.



Vader7476 said:


> At this point, I'm embarrassed I was even a part of this from the beginning. How quickly this degenerated. How do you folk from the main board post in veritable pissing matches such at this? It seems like such a waste of time, it's not even a discussion anymore!


This is what happens when the arguement runs the course and the opposition cant come up with arguements agaisnt the points raised so now try to descredit the other side to win rather than accept the problem.




Vader7476 said:


> As I help with that story and put a lot of time and effort into it, I take offense to that.
> 
> The Alice Saga, written by Mollycoddles, is a classic weight gain story, and there aren't any writers that I've talked to that haven't read it or see it as such.
> 
> Anyone that considers themselves a writer or reader of WG fiction should check it out, I doubt they'd be displeased.


This could be the problem here its obvious by that remark about not caring about it that people here havent spend much if any time around the weight gain fiction areas before so therefore are argueing because of what theyve been told or heard, its like the whole "ban Harry Potter for teaching Saitanism" the people objecting had been told one line which taken out of the context it was did sound saitanic but in its context wasn't.



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You seem to be one of the very people enjoying, and adding to, the pissing match here, Pot.
> 
> You are offended that I don't read all the stories in the library- or care to?
> Oh yeah, your stuff is "art"....I should have been so honored......
> Gee, do you read my stuff?
> It's okay if you don't.........I will suffer through it *feels faint*
> 
> 
> P.S. I'm a writer of BBW erotica.....not shit to do with weight gain.
> That kinda goes back to that stuff again about this place not just being about fetishes, eh?



This isnt Fecking PAWG the writers of weight gain fiction here dont constantly PM one another asking them to read their latest bit and good fiction tends to get noticed here, sounds to me like you living up to your name there.

Im giving up on the being civil now as this debate is no-longer civil its starting to become a case of insults now



Tad said:


> Is there any middle ground between those who prefer that the library not be on Dimensions and those who would prefer the library be an anything goes porn-fest? If there were more moderate voices in this thread I guess I missed them.


Actually I was asking for either
The site allow over age of consent for the stories setting or
The complete removal of all underage stories including the weight room stories section and an 18+ and content warning sign to be placed up, but with the rules allowing for reality in other words if the main characters end up in a fast food resturant on a saturday there can be kids about as part of setting the scene.
Oddly no-one seems to like the idea of putting the warning sign up so alot of people would love to see Dimms sued for some reason.


----------



## TraciJo67

Tad said:


> Traci--it goes way beyond that issue now though....clearly what some guys want here is far different from what I'm comfortable with. I suppose it was always that way, but I'd never been forced to confront it.
> 
> I guess it is the issue of romance versus erotica versus porn in my mind ( although of course what others define those things as will differ from what I define them as). I always thought of the library as a place for romance and erotica involving fat characters, not outright porn.
> 
> A lot of things that may seem reasonably innocent on their own become.....not so much when placed against a backdrop of porn. The teen edition of People magazine looks tacky but not terrible on its own, but mix it into a rack of Hustler and whatnot and it has to be viewed differently, because the pople looking through there are looking for porn, and if they are reading it, they are reading it in that way.
> 
> So....it is a broader context thing, not the age thing (that is what it is, I'm really not that concerned about it--I would like things to have been clarified but I've accepted that some ambiguity is just going to be the way that things are).



I respect your feelings on the matter, Tad. It is similar to my own; that said, though ... I have always enjoyed GEF's stories (and I read one of yours the other day that I loved, as well), and I'll continue looking for them. I don't care if they're muddled in with the stuff that I have a problem with -- such as, stories about tube feeding "little piggies" until they reach a gazillionty pounds. That kind of thing isn't my bag, but I know that it is for others and I don't expect to see civilization collapsing anytime soon because I disapprove of objectification and fantasies that I can't personally relate to. GEF's stuff, your stuff ... to me, they are truffles, and I'm OK with rooting around for them  

I get that what you're saying goes much deeper (to you) than what I've explained above, and why. I guess I just think ... this is an internet message board. We're not saving lives here. I'll take what I want from it, and I'll continue to ignore the rest. 

I didn't even know that the Library had stories about/involving children until ... ironically enough ... Dan the anti-censorship man pointed it out. But that's knowledge that I can't undo, now. I'm glad that Conrad took a hard line on it, because I don't think that I could in good conscious continue my membership at Dims if he'd reacted otherwise. I know that he didn't do it for me, you, or anyone else. End result for me is the same, though, and for that I'm appreciative.


----------



## stan_der_man

Vader7476 said:


> Where in the rest of the world does that ring true today? I can think of a tribe in Africa that shows that. Where else have you seen that and what articles are there on it?
> ...



In the Middle East (Egypt in particular...), and Latin America the attractiveness of fat women is commonly accepted. Is the beauty of fat women mainstream? No, you do have a point there Vader. As long as these areas of the world attempt to emulate popular Western culture, magazines for example, (the major publications anyway...) thin women will continue to be "mainstream" symbols of beauty. But many areas of the world (the areas I mentioned above) do commonly accept fat women as being beautiful, certainly more so than the U.S. and Western Europe. Sometimes I wonder if the folks who write these stories like the idea that fat women are kept out of the mainstream, that they remain on the cultural fringe...



> Are you really saying that if it morally offends you, it shouldn't be written?
> ...




No, people should be able to write whatever they'd like. I've said it before and I'll say it again; To each their own. But then this begs the question... How far do you go? Will you be writing "fantasy" stories about fattening up, and hacking off pounds of flesh once "pedophilia" becomes blasé? Are you pushing the fringe just for the sake of seeing how far you can push it?
...



> Taking in consideration that most of us on here aren't professional writers, I certainly feel that some of the stories in the library are quite exquisite and definitely artful.



Everybody is a critic, and has varied tastes... I'll grant you that Vader. Let's just say that I happen to disagree with a dude that conceals his identity by using an alias based on a Star Wars character...


----------



## exile in thighville

JoyJoy said:


> your "I DON'T AGREE WITH YOU SO YOU'RE STOOPID" tack that "I" see more often than not from you is...ineffective.



the baring my soul tack went mostly unnoticed, so to your chagrin it seems goats only respond to goats.


----------



## exile in thighville

TraciJo67 said:


> Dan the anti-censorship man pointed it out.



nothing to hide. they've always been here and legal and enjoyed.

but everyone pussied out - you win! now get the fuck off my fetish board.


----------



## TraciJo67

exile in thighville said:


> nothing to hide. they've always been here and legal and enjoyed.
> 
> but everyone pussied out - you win! now get the fuck off my fetish board.



You mean, those legions of friends who silently supported you didn't want to come out and publicly admit that they enjoy stories about fattening up and objectifying 12-year-old schoolchildren? How very, very odd that they wouldn't have your back.

Speaking of legions of silent friends, and winning arguments via dubious methods, have you checked out *my* REP points lately, Dan der Man?


----------



## exile in thighville

yes we know about those


----------



## exile in thighville

wait are you claiming i "won" or admitting you "won" via dubious methods?

tell the one about your degrees again


----------



## TraciJo67

exile in thighville said:


> wait are you claiming i "won" or admitting you "won" via dubious methods?
> 
> tell the one about your degrees again



No, actually I'm pointing out how utterly ridiculous it is for you to hoist yourself upon your own petard, especially over an issue that is so outright repugnant to any reasonable person that even your so-called supporters can't bring themselves to rush to your defense. That should ... tell you something ... important, Dan. No need to impale yourself upon said petard. Though perhaps, in your mind, it's a _point of honor_ kinda thing.


----------



## TraciJo67

exile in thighville said:


> and here's my rep you asshole.



OK, Dan. You really want to link to something that gives your real name/occupation ... here? Here??!?!? In this thread? I think you may want to revisit that notion. 

And I consider the rest of your missive to be sweet, sweet words of your mournful, unrequited love. Sorry, grasshopper.


----------



## exile in thighville

yeah, i wouldn't want all the kids i've raped to come forward and pick me out of a lineup.


----------



## TraciJo67

exile in thighville said:


> yeah, i wouldn't want all the kids i've raped to come forward and pick me out of a lineup.
> 
> you're some naive threatening child.



No, Dan. THINK. I'm not threatening you. Far from it. I'm actually, at this point, quite alarmed, and feel more like quietly tiptoeing away before you REALLY explode/implode.


----------



## exile in thighville

just fix your ignore function and get back to your scavenger hunt of injustices for the greater good. you can cross this one off.


----------



## JoyJoy

exile in thighville said:


> the baring my soul tack went mostly unnoticed, so to your chagrin it seems goats only respond to goats.


 You bared your soul? I can't believe it went unnoticed. 

Mmmmaaah.


----------



## thatgirl08

Writing stories with sexualized underage characters may not be illegal or actually hurt children but many, if not most, people would consider that morally reprehensible and would not want to be associated with it. Although I have read and enjoyed stories with underage protagonists and I don't consider myself to be some heathen or anything (although I think in many ways it is 'less weird' for me as I was just in high school and I only turned 18 a few months ago), but is it something I go around boasting about? Would I want to be associated with or identified by that? No, absolutely not. 

I'm not saying I want to lynch everyone who has ever fantasized about or wrote a story about an underage character.. I'm just saying I see why Conrad is doing what he's doing and I understand why people are upset. Any mention, no matter how slight, of pedophilia is going to leave a bad taste in peoples mouths.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

thatgirl08 said:


> Writing stories with sexualized underage characters may not be illegal or actually hurt children but many, if not most, people would consider that morally reprehensible and would not want to be associated with it. Although I have read and enjoyed stories with underage protagonists and I don't consider myself to be some heathen or anything (although I think in many ways it is 'less weird' for me as I was just in high school and I only turned 18 a few months ago), but is it something I go around boasting about? Would I want to be associated with or identified by that? No, absolutely not.
> 
> I'm not saying I want to lynch everyone who has ever fantasized about or wrote a story about an underage character.. I'm just saying I see why Conrad is doing what he's doing and I understand why people are upset. Any mention, no matter how slight, of pedophilia is going to leave a bad taste in peoples mouths.



Theres stopping what could be seen as pedophilla then theres looking for what isnt there, such as the stories where kids were background characters that appeared in one scene and the stories are gone for that, its like trying to ban Harry Potter because it has magic in it and magic is meant to be the devils work. doesnt matter if kids want to read it and the stories are getting millions of kids into reading no its bad because it could potentially be blasphemous


----------



## exile in thighville

thatgirl08 said:


> Writing stories with sexualized underage characters may not be illegal or actually hurt children but many, if not most, people would consider that morally reprehensible and would not want to be associated with it. Although I have read and enjoyed stories with underage protagonists and I don't consider myself to be some heathen or anything (although I think in many ways it is 'less weird' for me as I was just in high school and I only turned 18 a few months ago), but is it something I go around boasting about? Would I want to be associated with or identified by that? No, absolutely not.
> 
> I'm not saying I want to lynch everyone who has ever fantasized about or wrote a story about an underage character.. I'm just saying I see why Conrad is doing what he's doing and I understand why people are upset. Any mention, no matter how slight, of pedophilia is going to leave a bad taste in peoples mouths.


 
probably your best post.


----------



## thatgirl08

Dwavenhobble said:


> Theres stopping what could be seen as pedophilla then theres looking for what isnt there, such as the stories where kids were background characters that appeared in one scene and the stories are gone for that, its like trying to ban Harry Potter because it has magic in it and magic is meant to be the devils work. doesnt matter if kids want to read it and the stories are getting millions of kids into reading no its bad because it could potentially be blasphemous



Apparently you missed the part about "any mention, EVEN SLIGHT"


----------



## Dwavenhobble

thatgirl08 said:


> Apparently you missed the part about "any mention, EVEN SLIGHT"


but only a true idiot like those who say Disney are trying to teach kids bad things would think because a kid appears in it then its promoting pedophilla, Theres sex in the Matrix films but kids appear in them aswell (not at the same time obviously) does that make the Matrix films support pedophillia ?


----------



## mossystate

Dwavenhobble said:


> Theres stopping what could be seen as pedophilla then theres looking for what isnt there, such as the stories where kids were background characters that appeared in one scene and the stories are gone for that, its like trying to ban Harry Potter because it has magic in it and magic is meant to be the devils work. doesnt matter if kids want to read it and the stories are getting millions of kids into reading no its bad because it could potentially be blasphemous



From this post, you obviously have no...no...idea what people objected to. And, you need to take it up with those who have the actual power to get rid of...whatever.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

mossystate said:


> From this post, you obviously have no...no...idea what people objected to. And, you need to take it up with those who have the actual power to get rid of...whatever.



no mention of kids at all in stories involving sex otherwise it apparently promotes pedophilla so therefore by those rules the Matrix promotes pedophilla, so does Lock Stock and Two smoking Barrels and lucky number Sleven plus many more im sure.


----------



## Vader7476

fa_man_stan said:


> In the Middle East (Egypt in particular...), and Latin America the attractiveness of fat women is commonly accepted. Is the beauty of fat women mainstream? No, you do have a point there Vader. As long as these areas of the world attempt to emulate popular Western culture, magazines for example, (the major publications anyway...) thin women will continue to be "mainstream" symbols of beauty. But many areas of the world (the areas I mentioned above) do commonly accept fat women as being beautiful, certainly more so than the U.S. and Western Europe. Sometimes I wonder if the folks who write these stories like the idea that fat women are kept out of the mainstream, that they remain on the cultural fringe...



We're arguing two different things. Many people here in the US accept the attractiveness of fat women as well, and it's usually only a few jerks that openly criticize. I'm not quite sure about Latin American and I'll have to take your word in Egypt unless you have some reading or something handy, but I was definitely talking more of the mainstream. 

I do not think it's them trying to emulate western culture that's doing it. I think humans are hard wired to be attracted to people of normal weights. 




fa_man_stan said:


> No, people should be able to write whatever they'd like. I've said it before and I'll say it again; To each their own. But then this begs the question... How far do you go? Will you be writing "fantasy" stories about fattening up, and hacking off pounds of flesh once "pedophilia" becomes blasé? Are you pushing the fringe just for the sake of seeing how far you can push it?
> ...



No, I don't push boundries in these types of stories just to push boundries. But I certainly think that if someone wanted to write the most disgusting, reprehensible, abhorrent story that you could think of, they should be allowed. My natural inclination is that the more freedom, the better. That's not ever going to happen on this site, unfortunately, but I can understand why it wouldn't. I think it's...a bit, how do I put this? I think it's closeminded to try and limit literature, when it's incredibly easy to just have things labeled and avoided by anyone that venture in the library. 





fa_man_stan said:


> Everybody is a critic, and has varied tastes... I'll grant you that Vader. Let's just say that I happen to disagree with a dude that conceals his identity by using an alias based on a Star Wars character...



Then how do you define something as art? That's the basis of my statement. I define it not as a quality issue(Because it's not, and no professional artist I've ever read about would say it's about quality) but rather trying to capture something from the onlooker. A smile, disgust, anger, an erection, whatever. If something is made with the distinct intent to be art, to ellicit an emotion, then ya, that's art to me. And anyone that submits in the library here that tries their hardest, that's admirable and artful to me, regardless of skill level. It's not easy writing this stuff.


----------



## mossystate

Dwavenhobble said:


> ...so therefore by those rules the Matrix promotes pedophilla, so does Lock Stock and Two smoking Barrels and lucky number Sleven plus many more im sure.





Is Conrad/Dimensions behind those movies?

Wow.


Who knew.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

mossystate said:


> Is Conrad/Dimensions behind those movies?
> 
> Wow.
> 
> 
> Who knew.



Conrad wrote all the stories ever on this site wow so many writing styles what a talented writer he must be.


----------



## mossystate

Dwavenhobble said:


> Conrad wrote all the stories ever on this site wow so many writing styles what a talented writer he must be.



He makes the rules...for Dimensions...nowhere else...my point. Whoosh.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

mossystate said:


> He makes the rules...for Dimensions...nowhere else...my point. Whoosh.


My point said new rule changes are a bit silly


----------



## exile in thighville

thatgirl08 said:


> but is it something I go around boasting about? Would I want to be associated with or identified by that? No, absolutely not.



i mean this part stung a bit but i deserved it.

just for perspective i didn't put myself in this equation to boast like I'M SO BADASS or something, just to point out that hey, non-pedos like myself have been reading the same stuff here for years and it doesn't really affect us the way it's being supposed.


----------



## Wagimawr

Dwavenhobble said:


> My point said new rule changes are a bit silly


Yeah, the whole "community standards should matter to those in the private sector" didn't work for Jim Morrison in 1969 Miami, and it's certainly not going to work for you here.

Suffice it to say:

Follow the rules or don't. Obey or GTFO.

Quite frankly, with the way your posts appear, I highly doubt your writing will be missed anyway.


----------



## exile in thighville

Dwavenhobble said:


> My point said new rule changes are a bit silly



worst point


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Wagimawr said:


> Yeah, the whole "community standards should matter to those in the private sector" didn't work for Jim Morrison in 1969 Miami, and it's certainly not going to work for you here.
> 
> Suffice it to say:
> 
> Follow the rules or don't. Obey or GTFO.
> 
> Quite frankly, with the way your posts appear, I highly doubt your writing will be missed anyway.



Rules apply to all including the archives or rules cant be applied if people pick and choose who should follow them


----------



## exile in thighville

whoever reported me for foul language is sure loving those ambiguous rules now


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Vader7476 said:


> I'm offended that you'd openly dismiss something that you haven't read like that, not that you didn't read it. I have no problem at all with not reading a story for any number of reasons, but to say that you weren't missing anything and not reading it is an entirely different matter.
> 
> Shit to do with weight gain? You're calling everything on the site that deals with weight gain shit?
> 
> 
> There's erotica in the Alice Saga as well. As the story has progressed, that has increased with it.
> 
> I consider almost all of the library as fetish. I hesitate to say all, just in case there is an actual size acceptance piece in there, but can't recall that at the moment.




It seems to be a bit of a stretch the way you attempted to twist my words...but oh yeah, you're one of the few that consider wank stories art....nevermind :blink: 

Far as not reading a lot of the stories here? I assisted with editing many...I found most of them to be very distasteful.....if not flat out offensive, objectionable, misogynistic/woman hating or totally stupid. 
I stopped editing because I couldn't stand to read any more of that shit. So yeah....I ain't reading up on dear Alice no matter who that offends.....:blink:

I tread carefully when I choose a story to read here.....but that's been awhile because most do seem to be about fetish.....that I don't have so why in the hell should I read it? It's written for other fetishists....pure and simple

My stroke "art" is written as a sexual outlet and a fun way to hone writing skills. I actually consider my poetry to more "artful" than my sexual fantasies (that I keep low key in this library, btw.....) I post here for fun....not so I can call myself an artist......



Tad said:


> I've skipped more pages of this thread than I've read, but I've read enough to have figured out one thing:
> 
> The other guys in this debate are making me wonder if I want anything to do with the library. I have stories here that I don't consider to be morally reprehensible and I've read stories here that I likewise consider lovely and of a nature that would bother very few people at all. BUT it is almost beginning to feel that by continuing to take part in the library I'd be endorsing the views of some others here......whose views I most emphatically don't endorse.
> 
> Is there any middle ground between those who prefer that the library not be on Dimensions and those who would prefer the library be an anything goes porn-fest? If there were more moderate voices in this thread I guess I missed them.



I understand how you feel Tad.


----------



## Vader7476

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> It seems to be a bit of a stretch the way you attempted to twist my words...but oh yeah, you're one of the few that consider wank stories art....nevermind :blink:
> 
> Far as not reading a lot of the stories here? I assisted with editing many...I found most of them to be very distasteful.....if not flat out offensive, objectionable, misogynistic/woman hating or totally stupid.
> I stopped editing because I couldn't stand to read any more of that shit. So yeah....I ain't reading up on dear Alice no matter who that offends.....:blink:
> 
> I tread carefully when I choose a story to read here.....but that's been awhile because most do seem to be about fetish.....that I don't have so why in the hell should I read it? It's written for other fetishists....pure and simple
> 
> My stroke "art" is written as a sexual outlet and a fun way to hone writing skills. I actually consider my poetry to more "artful" than my sexual fantasies (that I keep low key in this library, btw.....) I post here for fun....not so I can call myself an artist......
> 
> 
> 
> I understand how you feel Tad.



Twisted your words how? You openly stated you don't care to read it and that you weren't missing anything. That's what you said, no twisting necessary. What, literature a form of art? What a novel concept! 

I'm generally amazed that even after spelling something out, you posted exactly what I didn't care about. I don't care that you didn't read it. The fact you say that kind of thing about the library definitely solidifies a lot of my thoughts about this site, and it's rather unsettling.

Wow, using art in quotes, nice touch. You seem like the only writer that takes no pride in her work. Why wouldn't it be art if you openly try and make yourself better while writing for others enjoyment? And just to clarify all the stories here are fetish(Other than maybe a few exceptions that I can't think of at the moment). You think I care if someone calls me an artist or not? I care about the product I produce, I care that it does what it's supposed to do. Both in drawing and literature. I'm not successful in either, but I still call them art. You have not said why or why not you don't consider them art though, just childishly dismissing it. 

And yes, calling the stories shit, or stupid is offensive to every writer on here that care and put time and effort into them. It's openly hostile and I will not say the same for you and your work.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Wipe your chin there, homeboy.....you seem really emotional over stuff people post on the net........at the end of the day, that's really all it is, isn't it?

Oh yeah, fantasies about children fucking arent' "a big deal" or shouldn't be according to you.....yet I'm supposed to take all the other stuff here seriously? 

And once again, you know exactly what you are twisting. Read it...word for word. It's in black and white. Stop being hysterical and reaching.


----------



## Vader7476

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Wipe your chin there, homeboy.....you seem really emotional over stuff people post on the net........at the end of the day, that's really all it is, isn't it?
> 
> Oh yeah, fantasies about children fucking arent' "a big deal" or shouldn't be according to you.....yet I'm supposed to take all the other stuff here seriously?
> 
> And once again, you know exactly what you are twisting. Read it...word for word. It's in black and white. Stop being hysterical and reaching.



So you don't take any pride or put any time into your stories then, fair enough.

What does my view on less strict lit rules have to do with any story on here at all? Most of the stories on here aren't really serious though, those are frowned upon and generally don't make it through. That's probably why you think so many objectify women, because the ones that don't often don't make it through. There were a lot of stories that dealt more with the dark emotions that can happen, and everything's gotta be in a positive light, so most stories don't have much doubt or arguing. 

You openly dismissed a story without reading it and have now called almost all the stories on here shit. Who exactly is reaching?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Annndddddddddd.....you did it again. That word shit really bothers you, doesn't it? 



SHIT


Stories about kidnapping, force-feeding under the threat of death, weight gaining women being turned into circus freaks, thin women all being killed off (that author said THANKFULLY!! YIPPEE!!!) cause only the ones that please the penis are worth keeping, women being "selected" by how much they are willing to consume for "love" (those deadly quotes, again eh?)1100 lb women "doing light housework and giving birth at home" and , OF COURSE!, all the women in those stories wind up just absolutely LOVING the person that did all that to them....I mean how could they NOT???
All those stories made it right up to the top. 

Filtering, eh? Yeah....I can see why you would think that....
Apparently YOU haven't been reading as many stories as you claim to have been.....


Oh, and if I HAD *actually* said any of the things you keep saying I have said, then why are you so bothered that I don't care to read any more stories? 
Am I missing out on some big artsy, educational thing? Oh yeah....you already said that I am (well you didn't quite say it but I will reach as you do an go ahead and pretend you said what I said you said)


----------



## Vader7476

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Annndddddddddd.....you did it again. That word shit really bothers you, doesn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> SHIT
> 
> 
> Stories about kidnapping, force-feeding under the threat of death, weight gaining women being turned into circus freaks, 1100 lb women "doing light housework and giving birth at home"......all those stories made it right up to the top.
> 
> Filtering, eh? Yeah....I can see why you would think that....
> Apparently YOU haven't been reading as many stories as you claim to have been.....
> 
> 
> Oh, and if I HAD *actually* said any of the things you keep saying I have said, then why are you so bothered that I don't care to read any more stories?
> Am I missing out on some big artsy, educational thing? Oh yeah....you already said that I am (well you didn't quite say it but I will reach as you do an go ahead and pretend you said what I said you said)



Language doesn't bother me at all. In fact, calling them garbage I would find more offensive really, so go ahead and use that if you wish. 

All those stories made it right up to the top? To the top of what? (A couple of those sound like Wilson Barber tales as well, which definitely are high quality) What you seem to not realize is that the women LIVE in those stories, and most force feeding is under some premise that the woman wants it for herself. How many dark stories are on here, really? Not that many, if any at all. Some of the darker ones were pulled in the 2005 revamp of rules. You also have rules that there's to be no drug use, no abuse, violence, etc. So dark? Hardly. 

I read many, many, many stories on here. The fact you can even say that while openly admitted that you don't read them and care not to is rather silly.

I don't care if you read stories or not. But if you can't see how it's ridiculous to dismiss something without having looked at it, then I don't know what to tell you. Not to mention, I help with that story. You don't see how insulting that is, really? You don't find what you said rude at all? It's not a critique you gave, which would have merit, it was an open, uncalled for slam with no backing.

Again, I haven't reached at all. I mean, unless you want to clarify your statement(Which I've not seen you do, which might be fruitful to your argument) I'm going to keep saying what I've been saying as you've now said it in this post as well how those stories are at the bottom of the bunch.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Vader7476 said:


> Language doesn't bother me at all. In fact, calling them garbage I would find more offensive really, so go ahead and use that if you wish.
> 
> All those stories made it right up to the top? To the top of what? (A couple of those sound like Wilson Barber tales as well, which definitely are high quality) *What you seem to not realize is that the women LIVE in those stories, and most force feeding is under some premise that the woman wants it for herself. How many dark stories are on here, really? Not that many, if any at all. Some of the darker ones were pulled in the 2005 revamp of rules. You also have rules that there's to be no drug use, no abuse, violence, etc. So dark? Hardly. *
> 
> I read many, many, many stories on here. The fact you can even say that while openly admitted that you don't read them and care not to is rather silly.
> 
> I don't care if you read stories or not. But if you can't see how it's ridiculous to dismiss something without having looked at it, then I don't know what to tell you. Not to mention, I help with that story. You don't see how insulting that is, really? You don't find what you said rude at all? It's not a critique you gave, which would have merit, it was an open, uncalled for slam with no backing.
> 
> Again, I haven't reached at all. I mean, unless you want to clarify your statement(Which I've not seen you do, which might be fruitful to your argument) I'm going to keep saying what I've been saying as you've now said it in this post as well how those stories are at the bottom of the bunch.



So everything I previously posted about the stories, you don't have a problem with. 
In other words, you blew off anything that concerns me about the "art" around these parts and wonder why I don't want to read some of the stuff posted here? 
That seems to be the typical mindset of some of the authors here....that it's all about the fap and fantasy. You call it art....I call it masturbation.

Seems we have to agree to disagree....because I seem to hold other things more important....such as not hurting other people....even in my fantasies. 


I'm not reading Alice or any of your stories....neener neener neener.

Move on......


Oh and if you have to force feed or try to have sex with a person under the threat of death....they aren't REALLY saying yes. Just thought I would interject a little reality into your fantasy there......sorry if I ruined anyone's hard on.


----------



## Vader7476

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> So everything I previously posted about the stories, you don't have a problem with.
> In other words, you blew off anything that concerns me about the "art" around these parts and wonder why I don't want to read some of the stuff posted here?
> That seems to be the typical mindset of some of the authors here....that it's all about the fap and fantasy. You call it art....I call it masturbation.
> 
> Seems we have to agree to disagree....because I seem to hold other things more important....such as not hurting other people....even in my fantasies.
> 
> 
> I'm not reading Alice or any of your stories....neener neener neener.
> 
> Move on......



No, I don't have a problem with any of that. I don't have a problem with reading a book when there is a murder involved either. 

Blew you off? What, you want me to tell you how horrible those things are? Get over it. It's fiction. They aren't real people. I think it a sad thing to have limbs lost, famine, abuse, war, etc. Some of those make the greatest art ever produced. 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Q0RIUEKrw...00/nick%20ut%20Kim%20Phuc%20vietnam%20war.jpg

These are real children. You can feel their pain, it's an incredibly powerful picture. The suffering and empathy I experience when looking at it I can't properly describe. The content is horrible, but an amazing piece of art. Amazing because it makes me feel that way. I'm not trying to compare the stories here to that, or Da Vinci, etc., but the point is that subject matter can be horrible and still be artistic and powerful and well done. 

Just because masturbation comes into play, what does that matter? I put symbolism in my stories, I know they're wank material. "Why can't something artistic aim to be sexual? Why can't something 'exclusively' sexual also have artistic value?" (Not my quote, but works well in the discussion) Matthew Kieran has a book about this.

I'm sure Jonathan Swift killed a lot of babies and hated them. Hurt people in fantasies? I guess you dislike people that role play about rape then? I think you're being a bit prude about fantasy, which I can not understand in the slightest.

Considering your actions in this thread, I'd rather you not, and you'd despise my two newer stories anyway.


----------



## olwen

So Vader, I'm guessing you don't like having your stories criticized....such is the nature of the beast that is "art." In quotes because art is subjective. If it satisfies you then that's all that matters. People will criticize whether you like it or not. If you are going to put your work up for public display then you need to deal with that. If criticism is too much for you to handle then don't display your work. Every artist has to deal with that fact.


----------



## Vader7476

olwen said:


> So Vader, I'm guessing you don't like having your stories criticized....such is the nature of the beast that is "art." In quotes because art is subjective. If it satisfies you then that's all that matters. People will criticize whether you like it or not. If you are going to put your work up for public display then you need to deal with that. If criticism is too much for you to handle then don't display your work. Every artist has to deal with that fact.



I love criticism. But you can't criticize things you haven't looked at or read. I used to be openly evaluated in school on some art and models I used to do by a round table of professionals and even more peers. It was more harsh and scathing than absolutely anything anyone else has said to be about my stories or drawings, and it made me better and they had merit and I loved every minute of it.


----------



## olwen

Vader7476 said:


> I love criticism. But you can't criticize things you haven't looked at or read. I used to be openly evaluated in school on some art and models I used to do by a round table of professionals and even more peers. It was more harsh and scathing than absolutely anything anyone else has said to be about my stories or drawings, and it made me better and they had merit and I loved every minute of it.



That may be true, but it doesn't matter. Random people will have random thoughts about all kinds of things. You can't really control that. I suppose none of us can. We can only choose how we react to that. It's like movies. I don't have to see a movie to know it will be garbage or not. That's how most people choose to see movies. Most people choose books by their covers, not for their content. Publishers don't even always put summaries on the back covers yet people still make judgements without having read the books. If someone objects to the subject matter in the library here without reading every single story, then that's their prerogative. Nothing you can do about that.


----------



## Vader7476

olwen said:


> That may be true, but it doesn't matter. Random people will have random thoughts about all kinds of things. You can't really control that. I suppose none of us can. We can only choose how we react to that. It's like movies. I don't have to see a movie to know it will be garbage or not. That's how most people choose to see movies. Most people choose books by their covers, not for their content. Publishers don't even always put summaries on the back covers yet people still make judgements without having read the books. If someone objects to the subject matter in the library here without reading every single story, then that's their prerogative. Nothing you can do about that.



You're trying to state that those false and empty thoughts have any validity at all? Of course they don't, and the people that say them shouldn't be taken seriously. 

I don't care about what someone objects to, or what they read, but openly stating things about what they don't read is offensive to everyone on here.


----------



## Wild Zero

To wit, posting stories with extreme force feeding fantasies=OFFENDED: 

Posting misspelled force feeding fantasies in the most useless thread on dimensions= THIS WILL NEVER GET OLD, NOT EVEN LIKE A YEAR AFTER THE JOKE STOPPED BEING FUNNY


----------



## olwen

Vader7476 said:


> You're trying to state that those false and empty thoughts have any validity at all? Of course they don't, and the people that say them shouldn't be taken seriously.
> 
> I don't care about what someone objects to, or what they read, but openly stating things about what they don't read is offensive to everyone on here.




I'm not going to debate the validity of people's opinions. They are opinions. They are what they are. What I'm saying is - and I tried to say this nicely before but since I'm tired and cranky - suck it up and deal. Where is it written that other people can't be offended by what you like? All this arguing back and forth is pointless. Obviously, not everyone is going to like what you like so there is no point in arguing.


----------



## Santaclear

Wild Zero said:


> To wit, posting stories with extreme force feeding fantasies=OFFENDED:
> 
> Posting misspelled force feeding fantasies in the most useless thread on dimensions= THIS WILL NEVER GET OLD, NOT EVEN LIKE A YEAR AFTER THE JOKE STOPPED BEING FUNNY



but that thread is our Holm


----------



## Fascinita

Wild Zero said:


> To wit, posting stories with extreme force feeding fantasies=OFFENDED:
> 
> Posting misspelled force feeding fantasies in the most useless thread on dimensions= THIS WILL NEVER GET OLD, NOT EVEN LIKE A YEAR AFTER THE JOKE STOPPED BEING FUNNY



Oh, man. Hold my mule! 

Just kidding, Officer Farva. Mmmm. So you don't like the thread? 

Is it my singing, or you just don't like the song? :eat2::wubu::eat1::bow::bow::bow::doh:


----------



## Fascinita

Tad said:


> Is there any middle ground between those who prefer that the library not be on Dimensions and those who would prefer the library be an anything goes porn-fest? If there were more moderate voices in this thread I guess I missed them.



For instance, I don't have a problem with WG fantasy as a category. What I'm voicing here is my belief that stories that feature underage protagonists shouldn't be featured on Dimensions.

So as far as the assumptions that people who have a problem with what Vader and Dweebenboob envision for the library ALSO just want the library gone, period... that's not the case for me and I would prefer it if those words were not put in my proverbial mouth.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Wipe your chin there, homeboy.....you seem really emotional over stuff people post on the net........at the end of the day, that's really all it is, isn't it?
> 
> Oh yeah, fantasies about children fucking arent' "a big deal" or shouldn't be according to you.....yet I'm supposed to take all the other stuff here seriously?
> 
> And once again, you know exactly what you are twisting. Read it...word for word. It's in black and white. Stop being hysterical and reaching.


again your saying chidlren grow up to 17 then poof in 1 day they are a fully gorwn adult at 18 and again ignoring age of consent laws.

Vader is in no way twisting what you said, because you said it that way.



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Annndddddddddd.....you did it again. That word shit really bothers you, doesn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> SHIT
> 
> 
> Stories about kidnapping, force-feeding under the threat of death, weight gaining women being turned into circus freaks, thin women all being killed off (that author said THANKFULLY!! YIPPEE!!!) cause only the ones that please the penis are worth keeping, women being "selected" by how much they are willing to consume for "love" (those deadly quotes, again eh?)1100 lb women "doing light housework and giving birth at home" and , OF COURSE!, all the women in those stories wind up just absolutely LOVING the person that did all that to them....I mean how could they NOT???
> All those stories made it right up to the top.
> 
> Filtering, eh? Yeah....I can see why you would think that....
> Apparently YOU haven't been reading as many stories as you claim to have been.....
> 
> 
> Oh, and if I HAD *actually* said any of the things you keep saying I have said, then why are you so bothered that I don't care to read any more stories?
> Am I missing out on some big artsy, educational thing? Oh yeah....you already said that I am (well you didn't quite say it but I will reach as you do an go ahead and pretend you said what I said you said)



Heres the big artsy educational thing you know theres stories about dudes too, if you going to pull the dimm is opressing women card make sure the stories dont include guys doing the same thing otherwise it suddenly looks like you want every story to be like a silly olden days style romance with "ohh I apologise for brushing against your arm without your concent" being the most erotic line in the damn thing.

Dont worry Vader ive never read any of Green eyed's shit, yes I havent read it yet Im going to call it shit how does it feel ?



olwen said:


> So Vader, I'm guessing you don't like having your stories criticized....such is the nature of the beast that is "art." In quotes because art is subjective. If it satisfies you then that's all that matters. People will criticize whether you like it or not. If you are going to put your work up for public display then you need to deal with that. If criticism is too much for you to handle then don't display your work. Every artist has to deal with that fact.


There a differance between criticizing art after looking at it and just calling it shit without looking at the thing at all.



olwen said:


> That may be true, but it doesn't matter. Random people will have random thoughts about all kinds of things. You can't really control that. I suppose none of us can. We can only choose how we react to that. It's like movies. I don't have to see a movie to know it will be garbage or not.


yeh but thats thanks to trailers and previews etc you get to see some of the movie, as yet ive seen very few writers posting story snippets about.



olwen said:


> That's how most people choose to see movies. Most people choose books by their covers, not for their content. Publishers don't even always put summaries on the back covers yet people still make judgements without having read the books. If someone objects to the subject matter in the library here without reading every single story, then that's their prerogative. Nothing you can do about that.


Again most stories here dont have nicely decorated front covers


----------



## olwen

Dwavenhobble said:


> again your saying chidlren grow up to 17 then poof in 1 day they are a fully gorwn adult at 18 and again ignoring age of consent laws.
> 
> Vader is in no way twisting what you said, because you said it that way.
> 
> 
> 
> Heres the big artsy educational thing you know theres stories about dudes too, if you going to pull the dimm is opressing women card make sure the stories dont include guys doing the same thing otherwise it suddenly looks like you want every story to be like a silly olden days style romance with "ohh I apologise for brushing against your arm without your concent" being the most erotic line in the damn thing.
> 
> Dont worry Vader ive never read any of Green eyed's shit, yes I havent read it yet Im going to call it shit how does it feel ?
> 
> 
> There a differance between criticizing art after looking at it and just calling it shit without looking at the thing at all.
> 
> 
> yeh but thats thanks to trailers and previews etc you get to see some of the movie, as yet ive seen very few writers posting story snippets about.
> 
> 
> Again most stories here dont have nicely decorated front covers



The stories are for you and other people who are into them. Does it then really matter whether or not other people like them? 

And all of the stories have keywords at the top to let you know what the stories are essentially about.


----------



## Vader7476

olwen said:


> I'm not going to debate the validity of people's opinions. They are opinions. They are what they are. What I'm saying is - and I tried to say this nicely before but since I'm tired and cranky - suck it up and deal. Where is it written that other people can't be offended by what you like? All this arguing back and forth is pointless. Obviously, not everyone is going to like what you like so there is no point in arguing.



I don't care who likes what I like. It's like this: In the video game industry there are many genres of what you could play. Action, RPG, racing, etc. Maybe you despise a game, maybe it's GTA. But you should have at least played the damn thing or else the opinion is null. Even then, not liking it and thinking it's low quality is an entirely different matter altogether. I don't like racing games because that's not particularly fun for me, but many of them are very well put together. I hope you see where I'm going with this.


----------



## olwen

Vader7476 said:


> I don't care who likes what I like. It's like this: In the video game industry there are many genres of what you could play. Action, RPG, racing, etc. Maybe you despise a game, maybe it's GTA. But you should have at least played the damn thing or else the opinion is null. Even then, not liking it and thinking it's low quality is an entirely different matter altogether. I don't like racing games because that's not particularly fun for me, but many of them are very well put together. I hope you see where I'm going with this.



Vader I understand you perfectly. You don't want people to criticise without first reading, looking, watching, eating, playing something. That is a valid point. but what I'm saying is that people don't always work that way and if you know that, then why are you arguing? Arguing won't change someone's mind if they have a strong opinion about it. Arguing only gives people more chances to ruffle your feathers. There's no point to doing it. If someone wants to form an opinion without trying something that's there prerogative. That Live and let live attitude has to go both ways.


----------



## Vader7476

olwen said:


> Vader I understand you perfectly. You don't want people to criticise without first reading, looking, watching, eating, playing something. That is a valid point. but what I'm saying is that people don't always work that way and if you know that, then why are you arguing? Arguing won't change someone's mind if they have a strong opinion about it. Arguing only gives people more chances to ruffle your feathers. There's no point to doing it. If someone wants to form an opinion without trying something that's there prerogative. That Live and let live attitude has to go both ways.



Oh, people hardly ever work that way unfortunately. Here's the thing. This is the library, this thread is in the Reader's Forum. If I went onto the Main Board and claimed that I disliked BBW's and think they were mostly ugly, how would you view that? It'd be my opinion, sure, but would you consider that trolling? I certainly would. And saying stories you haven't read on here, and that you read hardly any on here, and that they're mostly stupid shit, is just as bad as the former. That's all I have to say on this matter.


----------



## Vader7476

Dwavenhobble said:


> Heres the big artsy educational thing you know theres stories about dudes too, if you going to pull the dimm is opressing women card make sure the stories dont include guys doing the same thing otherwise it suddenly looks like you want every story to be like a silly olden days style romance with "ohh I apologise for brushing against your arm without your concent" being the most erotic line in the damn thing.
> 
> Dont worry Vader ive never read any of Green eyed's shit, yes I havent read it yet Im going to call it shit how does it feel ?



That's actually quite an excellent point about the BHM's, and I wish I myself had made it. 

I'd rather you not call her stories shit either.


----------



## mergirl

Wild Zero said:


> To wit, posting stories with extreme force feeding fantasies=OFFENDED:
> 
> Posting misspelled force feeding fantasies in the most useless thread on dimensions= THIS WILL NEVER GET OLD, NOT EVEN LIKE A YEAR AFTER THE JOKE STOPPED BEING FUNNY


No Turkee? 
No asplosions 
If not..i leaving!!!


----------



## Santaclear

mergirl said:


> No Turkee?
> No asplosions
> If not..i leaving!!!



it is sad he not see humar in Posts


----------



## Fascinita

Vader7476 said:


> I don't care who likes what I like.



Oh, sure you do.



> It's like this: In the video game industry there are many genres of what you could play. Action, RPG, racing, etc. Maybe you despise a game, maybe it's GTA. But you should have at least played the damn thing or else the opinion is null. Even then, not liking it and thinking it's low quality is an entirely different matter altogether. I don't like racing games because that's not particularly fun for me, but many of them are very well put together. I hope you see where I'm going with this.



Homeboy, this is like saying that I must first masturbate to Playboy to know that it's not for me. Or that I first have to swallow some Drano, to know that it's bad for me.

And as for what you write being art: "I know it when I see it."

There may be an "art" to writing erotic stories, but it doesn't mean that everyone who takes up a pen is practicing that art, or is even aware of how to practice that art. IF merely putting work into and caring about what you write made it art, then even the lowliest of your posts on this thread would qualify as "art."

And even then, art typically has to have some merit before some publisher or curator will agree to show it to the public. And what has "merit" is even more subjective than what is "art". Which is to say, good luck getting your art seen, and-uh, good luck getting out of the slush pile.

So your naive, overly simplistic definition of art proves what, again?



OT: Oh, and, please, Homeboy, I hope you won't report this post for namecalling. "Homeboy" means "friend." It does nothing for your credibility that you keep resorting to the "report post" button in order to win arguments. When I said I found you annoying, I meant it. But then, I'm free to find anything and anyone here annoying, and to say so. You, yourself, have told me that I suffer from a "grand illusion." Imagine me reporting that post as an unfair denigration of my abilities. Oh, these tears I cry.


----------



## Santaclear

Wild Zero said:


> To wit, posting stories with extreme force feeding fantasies=OFFENDED:
> 
> Posting misspelled force feeding fantasies in the most useless thread on dimensions= THIS WILL NEVER GET OLD, NOT EVEN LIKE A YEAR AFTER THE JOKE STOPPED BEING FUNNY



some say thread is Obsurd, mindloss waste of pixels possibly derail valuble Disgustion on issue 
they say fat posters like GreenDay,Margil,FaceEater Me & Others mess-guided
that one year is long enugh & its been long year

But the Jerry is still out 
we can only wait n'see (the vurdict) :bow:


----------



## Vader7476

Fascinita said:


> Oh, sure you do.:



What irrefutable logic! 





Fascinita said:


> Homeboy, this is like saying that I must first masturbate to Playboy to know that it's not for me. Or that I first have to swallow some Drano, to know that it's bad for me.:



Hahaha. You STILL miss points, entirely. 



Fascinita said:


> And as for what you write being art: "I know it when I see it.":
> 
> There may be an "art" to writing erotic stories, but it doesn't mean that everyone who takes up a pen is practicing that art, or is even aware of how to practice that art. IF merely putting work into and caring about what you write made it art, then even the lowliest of your posts on this thread would qualify as "art.":



And more missed points.




Fascinita said:


> And even then, art typically has to have some merit before some publisher or curator will agree to show it to the public. And what has "merit" is even more subjective than what is "art". Which is to say, good luck getting your art seen, and-uh, good luck getting out of the slush pile.:



This doesn't pertain to anything at all.



Fascinita said:


> So your naive, overly simplistic definition of art proves what, again?:



Oooh, scathing words. They might have meaning if you had correctly read anything prior.




Fascinita said:


> OT: Oh, and, please, Homeboy, I hope you won't report this post for namecalling. "Homeboy" means "friend." It does nothing for your credibility that you keep resorting to the "report post" button in order to win arguments. When I said I found you annoying, I meant it. But then, I'm free to find anything and anyone here annoying, and to say so. You, yourself, have told me that I suffer from a "grand illusion." Imagine me reporting that post as an unfair denigration of my abilities. Oh, these tears I cry.



Of course I'm going to. I'd reply to a lot of your paragraph here and post in general, but you've either missed almost everything entirely(Which I don't feel like yet again restating to you) or you've resorted to more ad hominem. You don't like me reporting you? Tough. I suggest more civility.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Dwavenhobble said:


> Dont worry Vader ive never read any of Green eyed's shit, yes I havent read it yet Im going to call it shit how does it feel ?
> 
> 
> There a differance between criticizing art after looking at it and just calling it shit without looking at the thing at all.



Never called the whatever Alice shit shit....please quote me calling the Alice shit shit.....  


And....you gave me a good chuckle. What? I was supposed to get all twisted up inside and throw things around the room? You probably shouldn't read my vanilla-esque fuck fantasies if you prefer the usual fare that fills this forum. It's not meant for you or your preferences. Hence, my reasoning for being quite selective about what I do choose to read, if anything, in this forum. 

I write smut stories for entertainment and post them on Dimensions. I didn't write a best-seller, an award winner or even anything I would seek to have published. 
It's done for ENTER-FUCKING-TAIN-MENT. When I do things for entertainment reasons, I don't tend to have unusually high expectations of those that may....or may not....read my stories. 
People might read them if they have time.....they may not have time. They might read my 8 million posts....if they have time or desire to do so....they may not. 
I don't insult them or grow angry at them over it. I don't consider things I write for entertainment value as "art". I take a more serious note and don't so easily dump them in a fap library if I consider it something more worthwhile.
You tend to strike me as having a very sad existence if the stuff you post and read here is the epitome of your life and writing abilities. You should strive for a higher goal, IMHO. 

On that note....adieu. Good luck in your ranting and long-drawn out, never-ending arguing to change the forum rules to suit your preferences. :bow:


----------



## Vader7476

Adieu. 

Ten character posting limit.


----------



## Fascinita

Vader7476 said:


> You don't like me reporting you?



It makes no difference to me, Jack. I will continue to speak my mind, Buddy. And, hey, Pal, let's you and I go out for fish and chips and beers later.



> Tough. I suggest more civility.



Me? Take a lesson from you, Bub? Please. Your "civility" is more like "hysterical hostility." 

So I respectfully decline the offer of a lesson. :happy:

OK, Sport. I'm sure you're busy making art. See you later.

PS - Since I can name logical fallacies better than you, let me explain that your replies to me in particular are chock-full-o' Begging the Question.

*YOU:* What I say is true!
*ME:* Well, here's where I think your logic is wrong.
*YOU:* What you say means nothing because you're missing the point that what I say is true!

It's easy to come in here and start behaving like a troll the instant someone says something you disagree with, and getting your feelings hurt and waving your arms around claiming people don't read your posts, and acting like you're simply fed up with trying to have a "conversation," when what _you've_ been stirring up is a maelstrom of bad feeling. Don't want to face criticism for your positions? Why speak publicly about them?

It was _you_ who mocked my first post in this thread, calling it a "dissertation," just because you didn't like what I--civilly, I might add--had to say. So don't go around beating your chest, acting like a martyr, pretending that you are a victim here. It's simple: Don't want none? Don't start any.


----------



## Vader7476

Yes, you should take a lesson from me on civility.

That's not begging the question really, and that's not what happened. Haha. The reality of the situation was more like you using a straw man.

You can see this with the last analogy of the video games, where you then simplified it and made it drano.


----------



## Dwavenhobble

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Never called the whatever Alice shit shit....please quote me calling the Alice shit shit.....
> 
> 
> And....you gave me a good chuckle. What? I was supposed to get all twisted up inside and throw things around the room? You probably shouldn't read my vanilla-esque fuck fantasies if you prefer the usual fare that fills this forum. It's not meant for you or your preferences. Hence, my reasoning for being quite selective about what I do choose to read, if anything, in this forum.
> 
> I write smut stories for entertainment and post them on Dimensions. I didn't write a best-seller, an award winner or even anything I would seek to have published.
> It's done for ENTER-FUCKING-TAIN-MENT. When I do things for entertainment reasons, I don't tend to have unusually high expectations of those that may....or may not....read my stories.
> People might read them if they have time.....they may not have time. They might read my 8 million posts....if they have time or desire to do so....they may not.
> I don't insult them or grow angry at them over it. I don't consider things I write for entertainment value as "art". I take a more serious note and don't so easily dump them in a fap library if I consider it something more worthwhile.
> You tend to strike me as having a very sad existence if the stuff you post and read here is the epitome of your life and writing abilities. You should strive for a higher goal, IMHO.
> 
> On that note....adieu. Good luck in your ranting and long-drawn out, never-ending arguing to change the forum rules to suit your preferences. :bow:


Sorry had to wait till youd done this post to say I'd put a setup in my last post, to call someones stories shit without reading them would have been bitter ignroant and stupid of me.
I apologise to Vader for not saying when he pulled me on it but if Id said I was doing it for the reason of making a point then this wouldnt have worked.
By doing what i have Ive shown how big headed ignorant stupid and annoying saying something like that is to anyone who writes stories or anyone who writes hearing someone say that, is.
I think my point is proved, and as Ive still not read your stories I have no oppinnion of them either way.


----------



## Vader7476

Fascinita said:


> It's easy to come in here and start behaving like a troll the instant someone says something you disagree with, and getting your feelings hurt and waving your arms around claiming people don't read your posts, and acting like you're simply fed up with trying to have a "conversation," when what _you've_ been stirring up is a maelstrom of bad feeling. Don't want to face criticism for your positions? Why speak publicly about them?
> 
> It was _you_ who mocked my first post in this thread, calling it a "dissertation," just because you didn't like what I--civilly, I might add--had to say. So don't go around beating your chest, acting like a martyr, pretending that you are a victim here. It's simple: Don't want none? Don't start any.



You've editted after I posted.

Acting like a troll how? Things were said that I disagreed with, I explained my reasoning. My feelings weren't hurt. And for the most part, people DID misread my posts. That's why I had to rewrite a few of them a number of times, to try and clarify them even more. 

I am trying to have a conversation. When others start getting really hostile, that's not something I did. Look at Olwen. She came on here, disagreed with me and was delightful. So was Fa_Man_Stan(I think that was his name). I have a lot of respect for them, and am thankful they posted. It was very fun, and how a discussion should happen. 

Firstly, you said I was daydreaming. Not civil in the slightest. Secondly, I think this is why maybe you started off the wrong foot. My use of dissertation wasn't in jest. It wasn't mocking. I use that word as a synonym for argument, or post, or whatever you'd like. So I apologize if my use of that word offended you. It was not my intention. 

I didn't start any, and it's not about "wanting none." I could be a thousand times more hostile, mean, angry, attacking, etc. Who cares? It's not threatening, or scary, it's just a waste of time for both our parts. You think I care about your sarcastic quips? I do not. They don't make me take you more serious, and that's what I try to avoid. Because once I degenerate, and act like a baboon, you're not going to take anything I say seriously, then it's just us calling each other names, and that's a waste of my time, of which I have little.


----------



## Fascinita

Vader7476 said:


> Yes, you should take a lesson from me on civility.



OK. Watch this:

"Haha." (see below  )



> That's not begging the question really, and that's not what happened.



You keep racking up logical fallacies. This one's called *Burden of Proof*.




> Haha.



Now, be civil.

I made my point as civilly as I could. Laughing as a response? Not so civil. 



> The reality of the situation was more like you using a straw man.



Do you actually know what a straw man is? I'd say you had a better shot at making your case using *Composition* (Playboy and The Library), or *Red Herring* (the Drano thingie)... But you appear to just clutch at the first straw, instead.



> You can see this with the last analogy of the video games, where you then simplified it and made it drano.



I'd say the analogy stands, since your claim that one must read a story in order to be qualified to say anything about it is wrapped up in your claiming that I have to have firsthand experience of something in order to make up my mind to avoid it. Simply reading the Drano label should tell an average person not to eat the stuff. Likewise, simply glancing at the classifying tags or keywords for a story should be enough to let me make up my mind that it falls in a category of writing which has no appeal (artistic or otherwise) for me.

Pedantic belaboring of the "you must first experience art for yourself in order to earn the right to critique it" is an attempt to establish your writing de facto as "art." 

By the way, here's another logical fallacy for you: *False Dilemma*, i.e., If you don't experience my writing, which I claim is "art," you're not qualified to say anything about it... Therefore my writing must be "art."


----------



## Fascinita

Vader7476 said:


> Who cares? ... You think I care about your sarcastic quips? I do not.



Since you've blown my sarcasm way out of proportion--though your own sarcasm matches mine; and since you've focused almost exclusively on responding to my sarcasm, rather than to the points I've tried to make--actually kinda hiding behind your objections to my sarcastic quips, in avoidance of my points--I have to conclude that, yeah, you do care.

And I also see how you don't have a civil discussion, with give and take, since it appears that with you there is no "coming to an understanding" or even "agreeing to disagree."

What you have staged here is a demonstration, a protest maybe... but not a conversation.

And that strikes me as perfectly coherent with your *initial argument*, that because Dimensions is "largely a fetish" site (according to you), those of us who are not "into fetish" should step out of the way and let you have run of the place.

Or am I wrong about that?

Simply put, it's clear what you want, but you've failed to make a good, civil enough case for it--one that doesn't hinge on your "Dims is for fetishists" claim, which leaves an awful lot of people in the dust (how's THAT for civility?)--and have instead appeared content with raising Cain.


----------



## Vader7476

Fascinita said:


> You keep racking up logical fallacies. This one's called Burden of Proof.



How is that Burden of Proof at all? Burden of proof has to do with the famous, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." My statement didn't at all say that there's no proof involved and that's why I'm right. This is an entire stretch.






Fascinita said:


> Now, be civil.
> 
> I made my point as civilly as I could. Laughing as a response? Not so civil.



Your sardonic tone was hardly civil and you know it. But yes, you're correct, that wasn't very civil of me. 





Fascinita said:


> Do you actually know what a straw man is? I'd say you had a better shot at making your case using Composition (Playboy and The Library), or Red Herring (the Drano thingie)... But you clutch at the first straw, instead.



I disagree. Red Herrings divert attention away, using another topic. Kind of like what a lot of this thread has been actually. Compositions are attributing the sequence's characteristics to the sequence. I don't think that applies at all to your statements there. 



Fascinita said:


> I'd say the analogy stands, since your claim that one must read a story in order to be qualified to say anything about it is wrapped up in your claiming that I have to have firsthand experience of something in order to make up my mind to avoid it. Simply reading the Drano label should tell an average person not to eat the stuff. Likewise, simply glancing at the classifying tags or keywords for a story should be enough to let me make up my mind that it falls in a category of writing which has no appeal (artistic or otherwise) for me.



That's why this is a strawman, you're simplifying the entire argument(And leaving out some things) to make it look silly. There is a difference in saying what you just said, which I agree with, to what I said originally. Now, to clarify, I was talking about openly criticising stories which weren't read. I think we'd both agree that if you didn't read...let's say, Wicked. Alright, so the book is Wicked. It's an off-shoot of the Wizard of Oz books, done years later by a different author to give an alternate view, the protagonist is the witch. Okay, so let's say you didn't read that book. Now, I'm fine with you not reading it because of a number of valid reasons. What I was saying originally was that it's not a fair criticism to say it's stupid, or not worth reading. As I tried to lay out with video games, just because I don't like racing games, doesn't mean those games aren't good. 






Fascinita said:


> By the way, here's another logical fallacy for you: False Dilemma, i.e., If you don't experience my writing, which I claim is "art," you're not qualified to say anything about it... Therefore my writing must be "art."



Kind of, usually there's another choice thrown in there that's ridiculous. But I never said anything like that. I'm not using the criticism route to be a round about way of proving my literature on here as art.


----------



## Vader7476

Fascinita said:


> Since you've blown my sarcasm way out of proportion--though your own sarcasm matches mine; and since you've focused almost exclusively on responding to my sarcasm, rather than to the points I've tried to make--actually kinda hiding behind your objections to my sarcastic quips, in avoidance of my points--I have to conclude that, yeah, you do care.



My sarcasm has only shown in a couple of my posts, and I regret doing it. How have I focused exclusively on your sarcasm? I've responded to you and your posts in their entireties, save for that one. Hiding? Please, you know that's not true as well.



Fascinita said:


> And I also see how you don't have a civil discussion, with give and take, since it appears that with you there is no "coming to an understanding" or even "agreeing to disagree."



I'm more than happy to come to an understanding. That doesn't mean I'm just going to lay down my beliefs when I don't feel that way. I mean really though, where has anyone else tried to come to an understanding with me? Agreeing to disagree is fine, but that doesn't mean much in my eyes. That just means we don't agree, which is what we were at the start. 



Fascinita said:


> What you have staged here is a demonstration, a protest maybe... but not a conversation.



Hardly a protest. I really wanted to know a few thoughts of some of the posters in here. 



Fascinita said:


> And that strikes me as perfectly coherent with your *initial argument*, that because Dimensions is "largely a fetish" site (according to you), those of us who are not "into fetish" should step out of the way and let you have run of the place.



I never said you should let me have run of the place. My initial argument, well, there's a few of those about a few different topics. I never said, ever, that the non-fetish sides were unimportant, didn't matter, or should have no say. I do think that those that aren't into the fetish aspects of the site, or the adult aspects is what I think I originally was going for(The stories, the paysite, etc.) shouldn't be the only voices heard about them since that's not fair to us. 




Fascinita said:


> Simply put, it's clear what you want, but you've failed to make a good, civil enough case for it--one that doesn't hinge on your "Dims is for fetishists" claim, which leaves an awful lot of people in the dust (how's THAT for civility?)--and have instead appeared content with raising Cain.



I'd like to hear what you think I want. Otherwise I can't reply to this paragraph.


----------



## Vader7476

Fascinita:

I would love to continue this way, where we are both trying to put together civil and thoughtful arguments. I hope that we can, and I look forward to it immensely. 

I really am sorry I was sarcastic or blew you off, and apologize for what you thought was a mocking statement. There was no excuse, but I had a pretty crummy day today and yesterday, and ask for your forgiveness. 

In any event(All my paragraphs started with the letter I!) I'll be retiring for the night, so no need to wait up for me to reply to what you're typing. 

Best Wishes,

Vader


----------



## Fascinita

Vader7476 said:


> I never said you should let me have run of the place. My initial argument, well, there's a few of those about a few different topics. I never said, ever, that the non-fetish sides were unimportant, didn't matter, or should have no say. I do think that those that aren't into the fetish aspects of the site, or the adult aspects is what I think I originally was going for(The stories, the paysite, etc.) shouldn't be the only voices heard about them since that's not fair to us.



So, you've never claimed that since this is "a porn site" (according to you), the rest of us (those not into your personal fetish) are second-class citizens?

I've been following your posts here, and when I put it all together, it sure does look like you're saying that "this is a porn site, and therefore the people who come here to use porn should have their needs catered to first."

Your argument has gone like this:

1) I should have the "freedom" to add as many details into my writing as I want--including details that make it clear that the protagonist is under 18. After all, "literature" is in the details.

2) The reason I should have that freedom is that this is a porn site, and anyone who has a moral objection to my desire for that "freedom" on grounds that this is a community concerned about the image it presents--a community that includes more than fetish--is deluded and should recognize that this is a porn site. 

3) The "fact" that Dimensions is a porn site should entitle me to the freedom to write what I want because I, and not the second-rate citizens of Dimensions who can't be bothered to read the Library, am the true demographic that Dimensions aims to cater to.

You've never made those claims? Please see the trail of evidence below. Thanks.

It would be accurate to add, as well, that I saw not one of your posts in which you made any conciliatory gesture toward those who use primarily the "unimportant" (anything not deemed important by you) content at Dimensions, and that you've never come close to saying anything like "the people who aren't into the adult content here shouldn't be the *only* voices heard since that's not fair to us."

If you'd made it that democratic, this thread might not have worked out the way it has.



Vader7476 said:


> To limit stories to college and up takes away a huge genre of possible stories and ones that are already written. The diversity and possiblities are what keep a story entertaining. The Weight Gain is what brings the readers and writers here, but the stories that get the most reads and are the best received do everything well. The more you put boundaries on the literature, the more boring they can potentially become.
> 
> Plus, everyone's got that one person in High School you'd like to just see some just desserts to. Pun definitely intended.





Vader7476 said:


> ...This is where the details are crucial....
> 
> So let's bring that idea back to the original. How does that possibly have anything to do with an esoteric idea such as an SAT score. Well, what if you want your character to be stressed, and like that he would be worried and that can help expand on an outburst about weight because everything is getting to him!
> 
> Oh no, I'm not doing well on the pre-exams and I need a good score, I'm getting so distraught! And of course he's paying less attention to his snacking. But, wait! He hasn't found a date yet for prom! Oh jeepers! Haha, you get the picture.





Vader7476 said:


> Your second point is nonsensical. This is a porn website.





Vader7476 said:


> Having porn websites advertised on here and having erotic pictures and literature make it one. Absolutely. Don't dilute yourself into thinking otherwise.
> 
> There's definitely a community, doesn't change the fact that it's a community on a porn website. The entire point is that EVERYONE on here likes and finds something sexy and many even prefer their partner to be larger than average. All about about sex, see?





Vader7476 said:


> I think you're getting a bit too caught up in the delusion. ...
> If the most important part was about accepting size, it'd be open to all ages for comfort for those in that awkward time of their lives, to give people encouragement and a positive outlook. It can't do that to all ages because of the porn that's on the site. ...
> 
> There's no doubt there's more to the site than just sexual gratification, but that's the main draw of it and why the other areas were allowed to thrive. Think about search engines. Think about what drives people to look for sites. Porn is if not the number one reason, one of the main ones. Not size acceptance. This place was made to cater to that group. Other reasons might make you stay, and that's one of the reasons this site is the biggest, but why many find this place is the sexual aspect.


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## Fascinita

Vader7476 said:


> I hope that we can, and I look forward to it immensely.



Well, my work here is done.

I'll be sure to speak up again the next time someone claims categorically that my voice should count less because I'm not part of the supposed main demographic catered to here.

I think you should take your problems up with Conrad. He's the only one who can do anything about it. And if what you want is a public discussion, be prepared to deal with disagreement in a democratic way.

This is a topic that raises flags for people everywhere, not just Dimensions. And maybe there should be *no* sanctuary for certain topics. 

Personally, I have no qualms whatever about insisting that the onus for finding and winning an audience for writing is on the author. It's just a cold, hard fact that this is how publishing of any kind works. 

So what you're left with is a lot of back and forth about whether Dims "should" be the place that offers absolutely no boundaries, so long as it's WG-related, or not. And that, again, leaves you just with Conrad to contend with, about the "no protagonist under 18" rule. 

Any discussion outside of a discussion with Conrad is just public rallying or advertising for your cause. You know this. And, well, what are the chances? Some things leave almost no gray, no room for discussion.

You're fighting a losing battle, IMO. And it's one I can't wish you luck with.

But thanks for being conciliatory in your last post.


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## Vader7476

Fascinita said:


> So, you've never claimed that since this is "a porn site" (according to you), the rest of us (those not into your personal fetish) are second-class citizens?
> 
> I've been following your posts here, and when I put it all together, it sure does look like you're saying that "this is a porn site, and therefore the people who come here to use porn should have their needs catered to first."



I did claim that this was a porn site. I never claimed anyone was a "second class citizen" at all, and you know this well.

You can't follow all my posts here and cherry pick them to put them together to form one argument. That really is disingenuous. I spelt it right this time! It's so intellectually dishonest, and I KNOW you know that. You're too smart not to realize that.





Fascinita said:


> Your argument has gone like this:
> 
> 1) I should have the "freedom" to add as many details into my writing as I want--including details that make it clear that the protagonist is under 18. After all, "literature" is in the details.



Sort of. Why are you quoting freedom and literature? The stories on this site are literature(Specifically using it as the third common definition).



Fascinita said:


> 2) The reason I should have that freedom is that this is a porn site, and anyone who has a moral objection to my desire for that "freedom" on grounds that this is a community concerned about the image it presents--a community that includes more than fetish--is deluded and should recognize that this is a porn site.



This is incorrect. The quote you picked was in response to someone claiming this site was viewable at work. My statement rebuked that nonsense, saying that there is porn(It would have been better to use adult originally, but I do consider a lot of this site pornographic in nature) on here and no one should be looking at it at work. This was an entirely different tangent to argue.



Fascinita said:


> 3) The "fact" that Dimensions is a porn site should entitle me to the freedom to write what I want because I, and not the second-rate citizens of Dimensions who can't be bothered to read the Library, am the true demographic that Dimensions aims to cater to.



This is also incorrect. You're doing what you were originally doing when you first started posting, in that you're just fabricating. I'm asking you to stop. I never said anything about the minority members not having a say, and no where in those quotes is anything like that even touched upon. This place gets the most traffic by people that come here for masturbation. That's just a fact, and it always has been that way. Even back when it was a magazine. I openly admitted, multiple times, that this site had more than areas just for them. 



Fascinita said:


> You've never made those claims? Please see the trail of evidence below. Thanks.



Um, no, I didn't. And I think anyone that reads those quotes in context and how the argument shifted to several other arguments will see that quite easily. 



Fascinita said:


> It would be accurate to add, as well, that I saw not one of your posts in which you made any conciliatory gesture toward those who use primarily the "unimportant" (anything not deemed important by you) content at Dimensions, and that you've never come close to saying anything like "the people who aren't into the adult content here shouldn't be the *only* voices heard since that's not fair to us."
> 
> If you'd made it that democratic, this thread might not have worked out the way it has.



More words that you put in my mouth. Look, if you want to have an actual discussion, fine, but what purpose is there in just making things up? 

I never made any conciliatory gesture because this isn't politics, and we're arguing facts. I think it's pointless, and I reiterate that neither did anyone else on your side, so to put that on me is extremely unfair, and you know it.

I actually said that quote first. 



Vader7476 said:


> No, let's rehash the argument, since it wasn't propery had. No writers got a vote or say in the matter, and no readers did either. Only a few people in the lounge, who openly admit they don't read the stories, go to the story forum, or even like what is produced here. Yeah, real fair.



(Originally it was your side treating US like second class citizens) After all the pages in here, I feel even stronger about that statement.


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## Vader7476

Fascinita said:


> Well, my work here is done.
> 
> I'll be sure to speak up again the next time someone claims categorically that my voice should count less because I'm not part of the supposed main demographic catered to here.
> 
> I think you should take your problems up with Conrad. He's the only one who can do anything about it. And if what you want is a public discussion, be prepared to deal with disagreement in a democratic way.
> 
> This is a topic that raises flags for people everywhere, not just Dimensions. And maybe there should be *no* sanctuary for certain topics.
> 
> Personally, I have no qualms whatever about insisting that the onus for finding and winning an audience for writing is on the author. It's just a cold, hard fact that this is how publishing of any kind works.
> 
> So what you're left with is a lot of back and forth about whether Dims "should" be the place that offers absolutely no boundaries, so long as it's WG-related, or not. And that, again, leaves you just with Conrad to contend with, about the "no protagonist under 18" rule.
> 
> Any discussion outside of a discussion with Conrad is just public rallying or advertising for your cause. You know this. And, well, what are the chances? Some things leave almost no gray, no room for discussion.
> 
> You're fighting a losing battle, IMO. And it's one I can't wish you luck with.
> 
> But thanks for being conciliatory in your last post.



No one said that. You need to chill out and reread instead of jumping into an argument all heated. No one through this ENTIRE topic said that you shouldn't have a say. Nor do I believe you shouldn't have a say. 

This was partly that kind of discussion, one where my opposition didn't bring particularly many facts to it. A lot more feelings about what's okay and what the site is for than logic and reason. The only good point was that it's Conrad's site, and what he says goes, which everyone knew from the onset. 

What's funny about that, which I brought up a while ago, was that originally this site had things like that on it. For years and years. It wasn't until the 2005 revamp did that change, and now in 2009 it changed again. In all, hundreds of stories have been lost without warning to the authors or readers for what seems to be not much reason at all(Seriously, the one story mentioned teenage skateboarders. You don't find that a little strict?). If Conrad's mind has changed, and he doesn't want sanctuary for those types of stories, that's fine. I disagree with his reasoning and many of his own thoughts about this site for a variety of reasons. Plethora of reasons. Both!  That's only one topic, there are many others. My biggest concern now is that if this is 18+ literature as a rule, let it be that. At the moment, I can't say curse words in stories(Not the worst of them) or go into explicit detail about sex, or even have a negative light on a fat protagonist. So it's this weird it has to be adult...but not. Basically everything's getting the R(or NC-17) rating when the content is PG-13. 

I don't have qualms about the onus being on the writer either. That's how it should be and that's not what I had a problem with at all. 

I'm not fighting a losing battle. The battle has been lost well before this topic was made. I never went into it thinking Conrad would change his mind, he won't. I wish he would listen to my reasoning, but he doesn't want that either. I tried that well before this topic was made also. At the moment, I'm trying to get clarification on his new rules, which he also doesn't want to do. For fear of loopholes, which I find to be silly on a forum where he can change the rules anytime he so wishes. 

My ultimate dream for Dims would be to have it no holds barred, but that's never going to happen. There are two things that seperate Dims from other fat sites(Whom usually have a similar or higher member count last I checked). The one is the size acceptance aspect. The other sites don't do that as well, and Dims was first to it so naturally most came here for that. The second is the library. No other fat site on the entire net has as many stories and writers. I'm worried that the more stories taken off, the more rules imposed, etc. will obviously diminish the library here to nothingness. It's already started years ago. Lots of writers are on Deviant Art and places where they have their own page and post whatever they wish. Many of the writers on Dims have accounts there and post there first. I have stories I haven't posted here. I know this reasoning is a slippery slope(More fallacies!), so it's not particularly strong, but the evidence so far has supported that claim somewhat and I think you'd agree on that. There's lots more to say, and I said a lot more in the thread already. I can't imagine why you'd actually care to read more of my verbose offerings. Haha. 

And you're welcome for that last post.  Told you I can be nice.


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## OfftoOtherPlaces

I thought this board was safe from drama :doh:


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## robovski

Say Hello to the Angels said:


> I thought this board was safe from drama :doh:



Indeed. I never missed this about Dimensions.


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