# The inherent FA predicament



## Webmaster (Oct 27, 2011)

I've always been attracted to fat women. I find fatness alluring, elegant, comforting, and just plain wonderful in every respect. Always have, always will.

The way I always looked at it, if someone is destined to be fat, then a relationship with someone who appreciates her/him that way is a good thing. To be admired, wanted and appreciated instead of being criticized and urged to lose weight even at home simply has to be a good thing. 

Yet, you wouldn't know that reading all the posts of us FAs having no idea how horrible it is to live in a fat body, how FAs are just users with a fixation on a body type, etc., etc. If you read those posts, you might well think that joining in on asking one's partner to lose weight would be the right and proper thing to do. 

FAs can be in a difficult position that way. There are aspects of fatness that can be detrimental. So would it behoove us to gently urge a fat loved one to lose weight, or shall we be ourselves and support her/him to be just the way they are?

What do you FAs out there think?


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## J34 (Oct 27, 2011)

I feel that despite the fact that I find fat on a woman as femine and beautiful, I also know that being healthy is the #1 concern for living a long life. I know that you are commiting to a person more than a physical attribute. After all, once we grow old and time passes our physical features is one of first things to go. Sure it may be a loss on what attracts us to our partners, but the rest of the person is what keeps us there for the long haul.

I feel my thoughts might sound a bit disjointed (haven't posted in several weeks) hope it comes across as somewhat conherent


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## Fat Brian (Oct 27, 2011)

As a fat FA I have a somewhat different perspective on weight. I'm not in SA only due to my physical preference in women, its my issue too. I have always been distrustful of what is pushed as the conventional wisdom, when the media, the scientific community, and the government begin to all push the same idea that immediately tells me that it's a lie and the fix is in. I thoroughly believe the science on the ills of fatness is highly skewed for the benefit of corporations and by a media who bounces from one overhyped disaster to another with no accountability to the truth. I am also certain of the fallibility of man, we don't know enough about anything to make the huge generalizations we attempt to. We have just enough knowledge to be dangerous, look at how many supposed cures have had deadly unforeseen consequences when they become widespread.

Being a religious person I'm not waiting on mankind to save me from my fat, that's not what is important to me. I don't believe that my waistline is the most important measure of who I am, or has any impact on my relationship with God. We have an obligation to our partner to help them look out for their best interests but in our belief system her fat is pretty far down the list of dangers to her overall well being.


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## elroycohen (Oct 27, 2011)

Being an FA is just one facet of my personality and there are many other things that get considered when I’m dating someone and considering a long term relationship, other then just my preference for fuller figured women. That being said, as an FA and with my personality in general I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that I would not be very effective support for someone trying to lose weight. There’s just no way I could pretend to put on a supportive front. It’s not who I am. If that makes me a bad person then I guess that’s for everyone else to judge. I’m content with who I am and as long as I make that clear to anyone I date (and I have with drasitcally varying results) you’d be hard pressed to convince me otherwise.


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## imfree (Oct 27, 2011)

Fat Brian said:


> As a fat FA I have a somewhat different perspective on weight. ..snipped...



I'm in the same place, being a 56 year old, 5'6&1/2", 436 lb BHM/FA, myself. 




elroycohen said:


> Being an FA is just one facet of my personality and there are many other things that get considered when Im dating someone and considering a long term relationship, other then just my preference for fuller figured women. That being said, as an FA and with my personality in general I know beyond the shadow of a doubt that I would not be very effective support for someone trying to lose weight. Theres just no way I could pretend to put on a supportive front. Its not who I am. If that makes me a bad person then I guess thats for everyone else to judge. Im content with who I am and as long as I make that clear to anyone I date (and I have with drasitcally varying results) youd be hard pressed to convince me otherwise.



I couldn't even fake weight-loss support to save my 14 year marriage.


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## The Orange Mage (Oct 27, 2011)

This is a meaty thread, for sure.

My dating experience consists of two women who were SSBBWs and then three smaller women who fell into the size 18-22 range. With the smaller women, the fact that I was an FA was a mixed bag. One worried she wasn't fat enough, yet hated being as big as she was. One was new to the whole idea, and slowly came to enjoy the quirk of it all. The last one knew she was as small as she could be without exercising like mad, though I get the feeling I was being humored in the bedroom, but I feel that way with anyone who isn't a straight-up fat fetishist. (It's the only way I've found to be sure so far.)

Now, with the bigger ladies, this is where things get wonky. One in particular caused me to really question this part of myself and really come down hard on it. I mean, I read the "Realities of Dating a SSBBW" thread, but I wasn't ready to see first-hand the difficulties of being so big. It made me ask, "Should I be so terribly attracted to something that makes life so difficult?" It ate at me to the point where I couldn't properly enjoy her body the way an FA does. I was consumed by guilt and disgust with myself.

I mean, let's face it: being fat isn't that great, and that becomes harsher the bigger one gets. (Yes, yes, exceptions all over the place in individual cases, I know, but all too many of those cases are feedees/gainers.)

I mean, there was a very telling thread, which corroborated with experiences I've had talking to women in the real world, where women were asked if they could take the skinny pill, would they? Or that one about what weight they were happiest at? There was a distinct trend of wanting to be JUST a little smaller. Not a drastic change, but the size 20 ladies seemed to average wanting to be a 14 or 16 again, women around a size 24 wanted to be a 18 or 20, size 32s wanted to be 22 or 24, and so on. I'm not begrudging them this at all, because I can see why they would want to quite easily.

So as _this_ FA, it's hard to not feel guilt when enjoying that which your partner would rather do without.

And my limited experiences have taught me that the only way for me to have a fulfilling, guilt-free sex life is to be with a gainer/feedee/fat-fetishist kind of woman, as there's no doubt in my mind then that the things that I do aren't just being tolerated. I hope to _hell_ that I'm wrong about this, and that I'm not so terribly limited in who I can fit together with in this context.

I really wish that sex wasn't as important to me as it is. Being geared towards fat women has made everything more difficult every step of the way. Is there some kind of WLS I can perform my sexual attraction? I'd still like fat women, it's just that if I could get down to a size 22 I'd be _thrilled_.

To answer the actual question: I'd want to help.


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## October (Oct 27, 2011)

Webmaster said:


> you might well think that joining in on asking one's partner to lose weight would be the right and proper thing to do. QUOTE]
> 
> I just want to point out that encouraging someone to live healthful lifestyle does not result in massive weight loss. Eating enough fruits, veggies, antioxidant rich spices, and moving enough to get the blood and lymph flowing will not turn a big person into a skinny minny.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Oct 27, 2011)

Webmaster said:


> So would it behoove us to gently urge a fat loved one to lose weight, or shall we be ourselves and support her/him to be just the way they are?



For me the key word in this sentence is "support." If you love somebody, your support her decisions about her body because (1) it's HER body, (2) she's the one who has to live in it,(3) if she isn't happy in her own body -- for whatever reason or no reason at all -- she isn't happy, and (4) if mama ain't happy, ain't NOBODY happy. My ex-wife was a BBW: she hated it. She decided she wanted to join Overeaters Anonymous, and I supported her --
including sitting through endless meetings where one person after another confessed to hiding cookies under the sofa cushions (don't they get stale?). The present incumbent is more mid-sized, but she is generally happy being the size she is (everybody has 'ugly' days, of course), and I make sure to tell her frequently how lovely she is. But then she would be lovely to me no matter what size she was, and she has my support for whatever she feels she needs to do. So, for me at least, there's no predicament.


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## NewfieGal (Oct 28, 2011)

Ok I am a big girl myself and I like bigger guys (or at the very least guys without six packs which I think is gross I know I know I've said it before) would I still like or love the guy if he decided he wanted to be smaller, as long as it wasn't break you off skinny or all muscly I think I'd be okay with it, who's to say until you are put in the situation...(hope I am not offending those who are muscular I am sure you are nice and all)

I am happy as myself, and I like myself but in real life and the real world it would be much easier to fit in at size 20 then it is at size 30... although I am beginning to see a much bigger world then the one I live in IRL and am starting to see that there are men out there who actually appreciate the difference rather then mock it, and to you gentlemen thank you for taking the time to appreciate the outside and getting to know what's on the inside... I don't see what all the fuss is about really I mean everyone is attracted to something different whether it be height weight race religion etc so why make a big deal if someone finds fat attractive thats why its called an opinion cause everyone has one...

So to all the FA and FFAs there is no need to explain yourself or your choices cause in the end they are YOUR choices


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## Fat Brian (Oct 28, 2011)

NewfieGal said:


> ...edited for content..



I believe there are plenty of women here who are happy being big, it's not impossible. It's partially that sort of thinking that keeps young FAs in the closet, feeling that there is no one out there who will accept them or their desires.

I want to address something everybody says about "Oh, its her/his body and they can do what they want". It's one thing when you are just dating but when you are married and committed to each other you don't solely own your body anymore. If I wanted to take my body and use it to have sex with other women I can rightly expect my wife to be upset. It's the same if I wanted to tattoo my face or have a sex change, those decisions effect our relationship and one party can't justly make those choices for the other without their consent and expect the relationship to remain intact. In the same way I feel like I do have some say if my wife wants to do something that drastically changes her body. We have to work together and if I present myself to her in the form she finds acceptable (clean, shaved, hair cut, not smelling of other women) then I feel like I deserve the same consideration.

***Dons asbestos undergarments***


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## Azrael (Oct 28, 2011)

Ahh this issue. For anyone who's been around long enough you may distincly remember a very similiar thread like this that was around quite awhile ago. This focused on something known as "FA Guilt." Needless to say, I am happy to see that this issue is back up for discussion (espescially since I am able to post in it now).

For the most part, I hold that a women's weight is her own however I will say that what she does with her weight can have consequences. If she wishes to lose weight I will fully support her in that however that does not mean that I will stay just as sexual as I was prior to any weight loss. Depending on the individual, sex can be a major or minor part of the relationship and because I am attracted to larger women losing weight can have an effect on my sex drive. This can ofcourse majorly or minorly effect the relationship and depending on this it may end or not, it all depends on how valuable sex is to the relationship. (I personnally go out of my way to make sure I like someone legitimately)

The samething may also happen when they gain too much weight. It may bug me or it might not, if it affects the relationship it might cause the relationship to end, if she asks what is wrong, I will be honest.

So for me at least, the women's weight is in her hands, how I react to it however is not. I will never demand her to change for my sake, ever (besides one would think that if you like a person, you like them for them not for what you want them to be).


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## The Orange Mage (Oct 29, 2011)

NewfieGal said:


> ...edited for content ..



And this is what I meant in a previous post somewhere about how for many women, dating an FA is akin to "giving up," or even a "temporary solution." I know two plus-size women who are open to dating an FA, but hate being as fat as they are (size 20, each of them) and still plan on getting down to a size whatever in the future...and I just wonder, once they've stopped settling for a fat body, do they stop settling for the FA they potentially have been dating and find a better, normal guy who dislikes her "fat" body as she did?

I _should_ refuse to be settled for in this regard. I haven't always. I'd almost never be in a relationship if I did considering where I live, and plus I like to tell myself this aspect of my sexuality isn't as important as I make it out to be. But unfortunately it is a bigger deal than I'd like for it to be.

I never really considered this, but the Paysites really do sell a hell of a fantasy: a fat women who actually likes her fat body and wants YOU (the FA) to enjoy it as well. (Nevermind the eating/feeding/other-kinds-of-stuff in there these days.) I mean, when you go waaaay back to the earliest webmodels, that's what it had to be about, seeing as the content back then wasn't even near-sexual content. I can't even remember much all-out nudity back then! It was just, "Hey, check out this attractive fat woman who isn't covering up and is smiling!"

(I feel like I stink up every potentially good thread in this sectionwith my BS, sorry! )


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## AuntHen (Oct 29, 2011)

The Orange Mage said:


> And this is what I meant in a previous post somewhere about how for many women, dating an FA is akin to "giving up," or even a "temporary solution." I know two plus-size women who are open to dating an FA, but hate being as fat as they are (size 20, each of them) and still plan on getting down to a size whatever in the future...and I just wonder, once they've stopped settling for a fat body, do they stop settling for the FA they potentially have been dating and find a better, normal guy who dislikes her "fat" body as she did?
> 
> I _should_ refuse to be settled for in this regard. I haven't always. I'd almost never be in a relationship if I did considering where I live, and plus I like to tell myself this aspect of my sexuality isn't as important as I make it out to be. But unfortunately it is a bigger deal than I'd like for it to be.
> 
> ...



I hope you do not mind my feedback but you do *not *stink up the thread and it is sad that you have had to deal with that 

However, there is hope. I actually prefer being the size I am. Did I always? No. But I have weighed much less and not liked myself also.

I think you will find a woman/women who find themselves attractive and love that you also share that sentiment (and do not think you or they are settling). I took this journey and got there. Some have always found themselves attractive and there are others that have either made that journey or will in the future. I think Dims itself is proof of that. I am happy/proud to be BBW and happy/proud for the FA's in the world (whether they use the title or not). Please keep your head up! 

ps- i hope this made sense and that I actually understood you correctly as well


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## musicman (Oct 29, 2011)

The Orange Mage said:


> And this is what I meant in a previous post somewhere about how for many women, dating an FA is akin to "giving up," or even a "temporary solution." I know two plus-size women who are open to dating an FA, but hate being as fat as they are (size 20, each of them) and still plan on getting down to a size whatever in the future...and I just wonder, once they've stopped settling for a fat body, do they stop settling for the FA they potentially have been dating and find a better, normal guy who dislikes her "fat" body as she did?
> 
> I _should_ refuse to be settled for in this regard. I haven't always. I'd almost never be in a relationship if I did considering where I live, and plus I like to tell myself this aspect of my sexuality isn't as important as I make it out to be. But unfortunately it is a bigger deal than I'd like for it to be.



If you think that self-hating women are the only ones you can get, then YOU are the one who is settling, NOT them. By the way, this statement is true for men OR women, fat OR thin. 

If you can't find someone to date whom you actually like and respect, then you either have very low standards, or you don't think you deserve better, or you're too lazy to look for quality people. That statement is also true for men OR women, fat OR thin. 



The Orange Mage said:


> (I feel like I stink up every potentially good thread in this sectionwith my BS, sorry! )



Yes, you do. Your whining does a disservice to both yourself and to fat women. Stop making excuses for yourself. Get off your ass, and go out and look for the kind of woman that you claim you want. There are plenty of them out there. If you can't find one, you're not looking.


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## NewfieGal (Oct 30, 2011)

Sorry if offended people please consider this my last post if people are so easily offended by something that wasn't meant to be offensive and just a general statement as to the mentality of what social stigmas can cause people to think I am sorry but I would rather have my thoughts deleted then edited they are MY thoughts and I would not edit anybody elses thoughts thank you!


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## Fat Brian (Oct 30, 2011)

NewfieGal said:


> Sorry if offended people please consider this my last post if people are so easily offended by something that wasn't meant to be offensive and just a general statement as to the mentality of what social stigmas can cause people to think I am sorry but I would rather have my thoughts deleted then edited they are MY thoughts and I would not edit anybody elses thoughts thank you!



No one is asking you to leave but you are in a protected forum. Just like some things aren't allowed in the BBW forum there are rules for posting in here.


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## EtobicokeFA (Oct 31, 2011)

I am so glad that this thread was created.

Qualifying technically as a SSBHM, I know that the science on the ills of fatness has been exaggerated. Not that I am not dismissing the difficulties of being very big. Considering the fact that I am not big enough to run into the same problems like in he "Realities of Dating a SSBBW" thread.

As a FA I always ask myself the question. "Is it morally wrong to be attracted to something that makes life so difficult?"

But, then I evaluate how much on life is difficult just because the social is making it hard. 

And I answer myself I am not attracted to fat because it make women life difficult, but just the beauty of fat women.


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## Webmaster (Nov 1, 2011)

Just to reiterate: The issue for discussion here is whether partners of supersize people should join the chorus of all those who advise/nag the supersize person to lose weight even if the supersize person is perfectly okay with who and what they are? I ask because there are those who wag a finger at us, telling us that if we really loved our partner, then we'd make them lose weight for their own good regardless of how the partner feels.


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## EtobicokeFA (Nov 1, 2011)

Webmaster said:


> Just to reiterate: The issue for discussion here is whether partners of supersize people should join the chorus of all those who advise/nag the supersize person to lose weight even if the supersize person is perfectly okay with who and what they are? I ask because there are those who wag a finger at us, telling us that if we really loved our partner, then we'd make them lose weight for their own good regardless of how the partner feels.



The problem is that to answer that you have to first ask "Can a supersized person can truly be happy as they are or is their happiest really a by product of denial and self-delusion?"

If that person has misgivings about their size and we are encouraging them regardless then that a complete different issue. But if they do not have misgivings then are we not talking about FAs really having misgivings about their own preferences, and how it might support what we envision is a dangerous lifestyle. 

I hope no one is offended by the bluntness of this post.


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## Fat Brian (Nov 1, 2011)

I don't believe that weight loss is the panacea that the medical community/diet industry and popular culture claim it to be. Even when doctors admit they don't know the cause of a disease weight loss is often recommended anyway. There is a thread on the health board now in which someone has been diagnosed with a skin condition that leads to painful, persistent boils, if you look the disease up you find that doctors don't know what causes the problem but the leading treatment is weight loss which doesn't work. Its the same with all the pills they push, if you look at the fine print of every cholesterol pill it says "Not show to reduce the rates of heart attack and stroke". Well, if it doesn't reduce the incidence of heart attacks and strokes, the purpose the drug is prescribed for, then why bother taking it? Again, we know just enough to be dangerous to ourselves. Remember the whole transfats thing? We invented transfats in response to our belief that saturated fats were all very dangerous and if we made unsaturated fat behave like saturated we would see a health benefit. Well, we invented something that is far more dangerous than what we were trying to avoid.

If your partner is happy with their size, even if its very large, I don't see the point in pushing something which does no good. As long as there is not a real health condition that is actually being exacerbated by the weight (by real I mean a condition that is actually made worse be excessive weight, not something where a doctor thinks you should lose just because) I don't see the point. If a person is happy why should we rain on their parade just to impose the flawed status quo?


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## Dromond (Nov 1, 2011)

What a self serving pile of shaving cream this thread is. You have no control over what your partner does or does not do with his/her weight. It is not your place to say. If your partner decides to lose weight for their own reasons, you should encourage that. If you can't, then you have a decision to make. That decision is whether or not you are more attracted to the person or the fat. If you decide the fat is more important, do your partner a favor and end the relationship.


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## imfree (Nov 1, 2011)

I think I notice conspicuous absences around threads like this one?


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## bigmac (Nov 1, 2011)

Webmaster said:


> ...
> 
> FAs can be in a difficult position that way. There are aspects of fatness that can be detrimental. So would it behoove us to gently urge a fat loved one to lose weight, or shall we be ourselves and support her/him to be just the way they are?
> 
> What do you FAs out there think?



True being very supersize is not easy and can lead to medical issues. Thus it would make sense for the friends and family of a supersized person to encourage weight loss. The problem is that *most well meaning suggestions won't help. *

The medical profession and weight loss industry, for the most part, adhere to the simplistic calories in calories out energy balance model. Unfortunately real life is much more complex. Nagging a loved one to eat less or take up the latest diet is unlikely to have any lasting effect other than to poison the relationship.

Better to forget about weight and instead concentrate on living life to the fullest -- which in most cases will involve getting out of the house more and being more active (which just may result in some modest weight loss without the ill effects of nagging).


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## Spanky (Nov 1, 2011)

*"I've always been attracted to fat women. I find fatness alluring, elegant, comforting, and just plain wonderful in every respect. Always have, always will."*

I wish this wonderfully summarized statement could somehow define being an FA. 

Then the rest would be "shaving cream". Really, everything else is within the confines of some relationship, whether dating, marriage, or some long term commitment. Teh fatness has no more to do with the acceptance within the relationship than any other issue. Do you communicate, do you both show respect for each other and use your love for one another to figure out workable solutions to keep the relationship strong. 

Websters New English Dictonary (Dimensions Edition, 2011)

*FA*: [eff-ay']_ n._ (Am. Eng.) 1) [male/female] having always been attracted to fat women, finds fatness alluring, elegant, comforting, and wonderful in every aspect. 2) [male only] jerk-off control freak fetishists demanding full domination over the weight, size and shape of the female form. 3) alt. [fah]_ adj._a long, long, way from home <see "Doe a Deer...>


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## TimeTraveller (Nov 1, 2011)

I've been married to a terrific supersize woman more than 30 years, and I'd love her to be as fat as possible, but her fat is secondary to her health and well being. It's her body, I love her and I want her to be happy and healthy. A year ago she weighed 400 pounds when I wrote this just after I discovered Dimensions, and I'll quote the best part.

Fax sexuality: major turn on?
http://dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1612186&postcount=12


TimeTraveller said:


> 5. Last weekend we went to a cocktail party. My wife was dressed to the nines, and I was absolutely smitten to see her large breasts and huge rolls of belly fat stretch her dress. I could hardly take my eyes off her. "Your husband really loves you, doesn't he?" If only they knew how much! She's the best thing that ever happend to me, I thank God I met her in 2nd grade, and to this day I'm very proud to be seen with her. :smitten:


A few months later my wife underwent a battery of tests for chronic sinus problems which took a turn for the worse and no longer responded to medication. Eventually she was diagnosed with some food allergies, so per her doctor's recommendations she modified her eating habits to avoid heavily processed foods and refined sugars, and replace them with healthier alternatives like fresh fruits, veggies etc. The improvement was amazing. My wife rarely needs sinus medication anymore, she sleeps sleeps much better and she is more energetic. We eat the same foods, so I feel better too.

Unfortunately one side-effect for me is she has also lost 50 - 75 pounds this year without trying. Finally her weight loss seems to be slowing so she'll be closer to 300 pounds. I absolutely loved her XXXXL rolls of soft luscious fat bulging everywhere and stretching her clothes to impressive proportions, but now I'm adjusting to a smaller kind of supersize. If she's only XXL now she's still more than enough for me to love. :smitten:


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## Fish (Nov 2, 2011)

Webmaster said:


> Just to reiterate: The issue for discussion here is whether partners of supersize people should join the chorus of all those who advise/nag the supersize person to lose weight even if the supersize person is perfectly okay with who and what they are? I ask because there are those who wag a finger at us, telling us that if we really loved our partner, then we'd make them lose weight for their own good regardless of how the partner feels.



I don't accept the definition of "partner" allowing for the concept of "making" one do ANYTHING against their will regardless of the intentions. There's a reason the saying "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" exists.

If you're in a relationship with someone, their happiness should be one of the most paramount issues. And regardless of media hype, being obese is NOT analogous to waking up every morning and playing Russian roulette. Even the most hyperbolic fat doomsayers still used the verbiage that being "morbidly obese leads to an increase in the CHANCES of" yada yada yada. 

Precious few of us are happy all of the time. I feel safe in saying that ALL of us suffer with SOME body issues from time to time. If you or your partner is happy enough with their big bodies, or at least happier then they'd be doing what it would take to lose weight, then just BE happy and carry on with your lives. As of today, it's still not ILLEGAL to be fat, so tell the haters to F*** off and live your lives as you see fit. 

If you truly believe your partner is flirting with DEATH every waking moment because of their size and it's your responsibility to MAKE them loose weight even though they may not want to, you might want to think about what's going on in your OWN head that's making you want to impose your decisions on someone else. The ends don't justify the means. 

Is your relationship really healthy if you're so dismissive of your so-called partners feelings? And if you can't live with yourself believing your partner is actively trying to kill themselves with fat, say so an move on. Nobody wins in a negatively co-dependent relationship. You can only do so much to change someone beyond what they want, and I just don't believe it's right to push for more then that. It always ends in broken hearts, hurt feelings, epic resentment and shattered relationships.


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## MrRabbit (Nov 6, 2011)

If my partner wanted to loose some weight for health reasons, or even to feel better, I would gently support her. I definitely prefer that she tries to loose a moderate amount of weight on her own (with my support) than that she would turn to more drastic measures, such as WLS which is very abundant and free where I live. 



Dromond said:


> That decision is whether or not you are more attracted to the person or the fat. If you decide the fat is more important, do your partner a favor and end the relationship.


I think this is nonsense. As an FA, it is not about fat OR the person, it is about both. You cannot separate them. I could really love a skinny partner as a person, but it would be platonic love, their would be no sexual drive. And it is this sexual drive which differentiates the love for a partner from the love for, for example, family. My sexual preference is an undeniable part of me, but this does not make my love less true.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Nov 6, 2011)

MrRabbit said:


> As an FA, it is not about fat OR the person, it is about both. My sexual preference is an undeniable part of me, but this does not make my love less true.



Exactly: you are talking about LOVE. If I understand Dromond correctly, he is talking about something else: a relationship in which one person is more concerned with his/her own pleasure than with pleasing his/her partner. I think both of you would agree that such a relationship is NOT love.


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## Dromond (Nov 6, 2011)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Exactly: you are talking about LOVE. If I understand Dromond correctly, he is talking about something else: a relationship in which one person is more concerned with his/her own pleasure than with pleasing his/her partner. I think both of you would agree that such a relationship is NOT love.



You do understand me correctly.


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## NoWayOut (Nov 6, 2011)

It's simple. You support what she wants as long as it's healthy. If she wants to stay her current size, you support that. If she wants to lose weight, you encourage her. She's the one who's carrying the weight.


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## kioewen (Nov 6, 2011)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Exactly: you are talking about LOVE. If I understand Dromond correctly, he is talking about something else: a relationship in which one person is more concerned with his/her own pleasure than with pleasing his/her partner. I think both of you would agree that such a relationship is NOT love.


Love in what sense? Not exactly a term with a concrete definition. There _has_ to be some consideration of a partner's own pleasure in a relationship, otherwise it's not even a human relationship but becomes something like a religious worship of the other person, like praying to a god: "Whatever my god does is right, and I must thank him/her for it, however it makes me feel."

If physical relations are important to a relationship (and in most cases they are), and if someone is hardwired to find a full figure physically attractive and a skinny figure physically unattractive, then I don't see how it's selfish to acknowledge the reality that a partner's weight loss could ruin physical intimacy. More like realistic.

One may admire, respect, etc. a partner for their non-physical aspects, but when it comes to physical intimacy, the physical component is, I'd wager, pretty crucial.

So then the question becomes: what will the relationship be like if physical intimacy becomes unappealing? Is the measure of "love" that the relationship goes on when physical intimacy ends or is performed with no enjoyment? Maybe so, but it seems like it would at least be worth giving the partner a head's up before the weight loss begins, if she doesn't know already.


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## kioewen (Nov 6, 2011)

Webmaster said:


> Would it behoove us to gently urge a fat loved one to lose weight, or shall we be ourselves and support her/him to be just the way they are?


I find it puzzling that these are the only two options, and that the question, "Would it behoove us to gently urge a fat loved one to gain weight?" is not a selection.

If the partner is being pressured by mean-spirited "friends" and family members to starve themselves into a skinnier size, and if she is being brainwashed by the media to feel that curves=bad and fuller=uglier, then I imagine that encouraging her towards the opposite opinion might be liberating for her. The urging would not be occurring in a vaccuum, after all, and might introduce her to a viewpoint that she never considered before. In this community, the idea of "curvy=beautiful" being a never-before-considered perspective might seem incomprehensible, but in the wider world, it's certainly possible.


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## OneFAsView (Nov 7, 2011)

kioewen said:


> I find it puzzling that these are the only two options, and that the question, "Would it behoove us to gently urge a fat loved one to gain weight?" is not a selection.




Well, therein lies the inherent FA predicament. We'd all secretly like the pleasurable aspects of encouraging the weight gain, but (hopefully) in most cases,
the FA settles to take the neutral position where we support our partner in whichever direction they wish to take -- most often their desire is to lose weight, and we remind our BBWs that we like them as they are today.


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## Russ2d (Nov 7, 2011)

> I've always been attracted to fat women. I find fatness alluring, elegant, comforting, and just plain wonderful in every respect. Always have, always will.
> 
> The way I always looked at it, if someone is destined to be fat, then a relationship with someone who appreciates her/him that way is a good thing. To be admired, wanted and appreciated instead of being criticized and urged to lose weight even at home simply has to be a good thing.



Exactly right

The biggest problem with FAs is too many have been beaten down into believing the extremely insulting premise that fat people are by default unhealthy; that fat people are simply born 'wrong', and thus an FAs innate desire for them is wrong. I am tired of listening to the apologies, and self flaggellating some FAs engage in as some kind of compensation for the sin of their desire.

It is ridiculous and unnecessary. Lost in all the BS being flung around from the diet/health/pharma industries is genetics (and actual science for that matter). 

The reason people of all sizes are suffering from the various ailments in the degree they are today is primarily due to industrial chemicals and food/water "modification".

Fat people and fat women in particular have been with us since humans first began to walk.

What are we're suppose to do? Join the ranks of the marketing pushers and urge our fat mates to try and become something they're not? Are they not already under enough pressure to conform to our culture's assembly line human mentality?

These industry sales people and their medical dupes are only interested in selling more drugs, surgeries, books, and equipment. It's not about health, it's about sales.

You want to be healthy, don't fight your genes, avoid stress, and avoid the ingestion and exposure- as best you can -to industry and pharma chemicals.

As for FAs, we need to stop apologizing and second guessing who we are. We are not freaks, or deviants just because we desire a segment of the human population who are naturally fat.


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## Russ2d (Nov 7, 2011)

kioewen said:


> Love in what sense? Not exactly a term with a concrete definition. There _has_ to be some consideration of a partner's own pleasure in a relationship, otherwise it's not even a human relationship but becomes something like a religious worship of the other person, like praying to a god: "Whatever my god does is right, and I must thank him/her for it, however it makes me feel."
> 
> If physical relations are important to a relationship (and in most cases they are), and if someone is hardwired to find a full figure physically attractive and a skinny figure physically unattractive, then I don't see how it's selfish to acknowledge the reality that a partner's weight loss could ruin physical intimacy. More like realistic.
> 
> ...



A fellow realist, we need more like you around here Kioewen- excellent 

I've noticed that it's a few men who post the, 'anything she does is ok, it's all about her' stuff. I wonder how far one would get if it was proposed to women that they must accept anything that their men do, any changes a man makes to his body is his decision only, and that women must accept this without any consideration to their own thoughts, feelings, or desires- that this is 'love'. I wonder how far that would fly...

In a serious relationship you care as much about your partner's needs and feelings as you do your own- which means you do not discount your own.

When a person's needs and feelings are not being met in a relationship, or even considered- that's when you find that person cheats, or that the relationship ends.


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## bigmac (Nov 7, 2011)

Russ2d said:


> ...
> 
> You want to be healthy, *don't fight your genes*, avoid stress, and avoid the ingestion and exposure- as best you can -to industry and pharma chemicals.
> 
> ...



Yes!!! 

I would add enjoy life by getting out and doing the things you want to do and by eating healthy without counting calories. Too many fat folks undermine their health by shutting themselves off from the world and worrying about the calorie content of their food rather than the quality.


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## joswitch (Nov 7, 2011)

kioewen said:


> I find it puzzling that these are the only two options, and that the question, "Would it behoove us to gently urge a fat loved one to gain weight?" is not a selection.
> 
> If the partner is being pressured by mean-spirited "friends" and family members to starve themselves into a skinnier size, and if she is being brainwashed by the media to feel that curves=bad and fuller=uglier, then I imagine that encouraging her towards the opposite opinion might be liberating for her. The urging would not be occurring in a vaccuum, after all, and might introduce her to a viewpoint that she never considered before. In this community, the idea of "curvy=beautiful" being a never-before-considered perspective might seem incomprehensible, but in the wider world, it's certainly possible.



^This.

Not that you stand a hope in hell, given the never ending blitzkreig of fat hate, shaming and diet-pushing in the meeja. Always worth a try though.


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## joswitch (Nov 7, 2011)

Webmaster said:


> I've always been attracted to fat women. I find fatness alluring, elegant, comforting, and just plain wonderful in every respect. Always have, always will.
> 
> The way I always looked at it, if someone is destined to be fat, then a relationship with someone who appreciates her/him that way is a good thing. To be admired, wanted and appreciated instead of being criticized and urged to lose weight even at home simply has to be a good thing.
> 
> ...



Given that pretty much everybloodybody else in the world is constantly pushing fat people to lose, lose, lose!!! - I'd say that any fat person who does want to lose will have no problem in finding an endless supply of cheerleaders / thin admirers. So, it would be entirely redundant, hence no, I wouldn't urge a lover to lose weight. 

If and when I (ever) start looking for a ltr lover again, I'll be searching for those rare elusive BBWs who are happy as they are, or a feedee who wishes to become a BBW - i.e. someone who will appreciate my FA'ness (and antipathy to diet pushing) as much as I appreciate ALL of her.

As things stand: the minute I hear any serious weightloss / diet talk from an otherwise hot chick I might be interested in, I just take that as a "not-compatible" red flag, and move on. I might mention HAES. Not that I expect it'd do any good (from past experience). I try not to dwell on the fact that almost all BBWs would push a magic "Be Thin Now" button so fast you wouldn't see her move - as it just depresses me. Ho hum.

Also, I'm really sick of hearing people defining / qualifyng what is and isn't love. You read this BS every damn thread on this subject. I, like most adults, know exactly what it is / feels like to be in love with someone. Anyone trying to tell me that if I don't support "X" or "Y" action by my lover / partner then I don't really love them, can go take a long walk off a short pier.


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## bostonbbwluv (Nov 8, 2011)

I thoroughly enjoyed reading and thinking about the insightful posts in this thread and they truly touch on issues that all of us confront at one time or another. The way I see it is that although the bbw or ssbbw may want to lose weight, at some point in their life, as they have lived 20, 30, 40 or more years, they develop a history and that history is, essentially who they are. What you have been, what you are, but not necessesarily where you want to be in the future. For me, reality is who and what she is NOW. Yes, it can be difficult to support her weight loss, especially when her years of being a bbw or ssbbw tip the scales in favor of the FA almost all the time (unless she takes the WLS road). No woman I have ever dated has been able to lose any more than 10lbs, except one who had WLS. I concur with what the Webmaster said about someone who is destined to be fat--that is the reality I am talking about. The problem can arise if we FA's are not supportive of her weight loss attempts by making known to her what we see as her reality. So if you say to her "I support your weight loss attempts, but I'm not very worried about you losing any significant amount of weight because let's face it, most people don't really succeed with diets" is a not so nice thing to say, but is at the same time, probably a truthful satement, depending on her history. I have observed it is human nature to always be searching for something better or different, a better job, more money, a nicer house, a newer car, a smaller dress size, etc. I believe that the height of human maturity is acceptance in knowing who you are and being honest with yourself. Once that is attained, then effusive joy can be experienced. Yes, it is good to want to be a better or thinner version of yourself, but until you get there, learn to enjoy what you have. I've rambled enough, but in another post I will share what I have experienced with a woman's weight and her enjoyment of intimacy and how the two are related. Thanks for reading all this


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## Jim Miller (Nov 11, 2011)

There's nothing wrong with being fat. I'm surprised that's still so contentious. If a person of good conscience is going to encourage their partner to lose weight, it's certainly not going to be because of the tongue-clucking of Very Serious People who don't know the couple personally and thus don't know what they're talking about.

Many fat people presume to speak for all fat people when they really shouldn't. Their experiences, good or bad, are not the archetype for everybody else's. Your results will vary! I understand some of the frustration, because many fat admirers are immature--as are most human beings in general, I'm afraid--and keep clamoring for more, more, _more_ of that lovely FAT...to the point where it starts to sound like a broken record. This rightly breeds resentment in some fat people, but it gets really bad when those people secretly (or not so secretly) don't honestly buy in to the core tenet of fat acceptance.

Being fat is great...if fat is what you want to be. If it isn't, then fat acceptance is a struggle for you and it's reasonable that you will feel frustration when other people behave so positively about it. But that is their right, and the movement belongs to us all. Those who are fortunate enough to love being fat, or to have a partner who loves the same, or both, are lucky individuals indeed and ought to make the most of their abundant source of pleasure--and everyone else ought not to begrudge them that.

So, just to say it again for effect, there's nothing wrong with being fat. There's nothing wrong with encouraging a partner to lose weight, or to gain weight, depending on the circumstances of the relationship and the needs and desires of those in it. The opinions of society at large, or even people within our own movement, are meaningless. But since there are lots of (F)FAs here, and since some folks have made it the elephant in the room, let me explicitly affirm that, yes, there's nothing inherently wrong with encouraging a partner to get fatter, no matter what he or she already weighs. If there's ever something wrong with it, it's the result of an external factor.

Now, as to that inescapable criticism about how dreadfully "unhealthy" it is to be fat, let alone to get fatter--with all the unsavory insinuations of unethical behavior on the part of people who encourage their partners to stay fat or get fatter--I guess what we need to do is split it into two parts. The first part is the fact that people almost never bring up the health angle out of a face-value concern for anybody's health--even their own. They usually do it to build moral standing for themselves and whatever opinions they wish to assert. To that extent, the health question is a total nonissue. The second part is that the question of health, as it pertains to fatness, is mostly irrelevant anyway. Health is when your own body doesn't get in the way of what you want to do with your life. If we accept, for the sake of avoiding argument, that being sufficiently fat is in some ways unhealthful for some people in some cases, then I fail to see how that in any way casts an intrinsic pall on the glory of being fat or gaining weight. We are complex creatures, often possessed of competing desires. I wouldn't mind some physical hardships in the name of being fat. Part of being a mature adult is knowing yourself well enough to know what you want, and, when it comes to being in a relationship, knowing your partner well too. Let folks weigh their competing interests and choose for themselves what they want more. Let them be the judges of how much sacrifice they are willing to make in order to be as fat as they would prefer to be, or to eat like they would prefer to eat. Let them decide how much sacrifice they are willing to make to accommodate their partner's sexual needs.

And let's not the rest of us chastise people for deciding to get fatter, stay fat, or encourage the same in a partner. Except for abusive relationships, it's really not our place.

So, then, my answer to Da Webmaster's thoughtful question, after so much ado, is: "I wouldn't encourage me or my partner to lose weight without a good reason. Fat admiration is a part of my sexual orientation, and it's a beautiful aesthetic property of the human body besides. Weight loss is not something I want to pursue--for myself or my partner--unless some competing interest makes weight loss preferable to maintenance or gaining. Since nothing like that has come along yet, and since both me and my partner are enjoying getting fatter, and are not all that fat in an absolute sense, I continue to encourage us both to gain--not in a vacuum, but as a natural outgrowth of eating what we like, living how we like, and nurturing a healthy sex life. My partner feels the same way."


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## chicken legs (Nov 13, 2011)

Webmaster said:


> I've always been attracted to fat women. I find fatness alluring, elegant, comforting, and just plain wonderful in every respect. Always have, always will.
> 
> The way I always looked at it, if someone is destined to be fat, then a relationship with someone who appreciates her/him that way is a good thing. To be admired, wanted and appreciated instead of being criticized and urged to lose weight even at home simply has to be a good thing.
> 
> ...



If you love someone, you do what it takes to keep them healthy (number 1). Don't try to over correct a situation because of what society is trying to push down our throats. However, if its not working for either party..then its time to change or move on to another with the wisdom you learned from the past relationship. 

Both parties need to understand and accept their own philosophy (number 2) before they attempt a relationship. Don't enter into a relationship bullshitting because those holes will just get bigger as time goes on. If you have a habit of losing interest in a person because their look changes...then that person should not get into a serious/long term relationship because its a waste of time. Likewise, if someone likes you for who you are but you don't your current state...don't waste their time either. 

Bottom line, if you happen to realize that a person hasn't gotten to know you and is pushing for intimacy...you should question their motives. They may even believe their own bullshit so you still have to look at their pattern and how they react to things to see them. 

Personally, I support my loved ones to be whatever they want to be. Unless, they want to be a black hole.


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## seancraven (Nov 20, 2011)

It seems as if there are actually two components to the question.

The first is the troublesome one. It's a recognition that supporting fatness as an abstract concept is different than supporting a fat person. I'm powerfully drawn to a plenitude of flesh. That's how it is. But to speak of the experience of being fat as neutral or positive in this specific context seems disingenuous.

Taking this from theory to experience. When my wife and I got together, her fatness was the physical quality that drew me most strongly. She's lost forty, forty-five pounds over the twenty-three years of our relationship. I don't like it, but I feel good about it. Or the other way round.

I do not believe this would have happened if I had joined the chorus of people who bug her about her weight. That chorus is a source of stress, and stress exacerbates food issues. Telling someone to gain or lose weight or exercise more or less or any such badgering is something I don't do, and don't like.

The only time I'd be willing to tell someone they should lose weight would be if I were genuinely concerned for their welfare, and they were in complete denial. I haven't done this over fatness, but I have done it over drug, employment, and relationship issues.


What I do? I say, "Listen. I'm only going to say this to you once, and I'm only going to say it because if I don't I'll feel like a crappy person. You don't want to hear it, I don't want to say it, it'll never come up again. BUT..."

And it never comes up again.

That's my two cents.


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## EtobicokeFA (Nov 21, 2011)

seancraven said:


> It seems as if there are actually two components to the question.
> 
> The first is the troublesome one. It's a recognition that supporting fatness as an abstract concept is different than supporting a fat person. I'm powerfully drawn to a plenitude of flesh. That's how it is. But to speak of the experience of being fat as neutral or positive in this specific context seems disingenuous.
> 
> ...



Good post. Except that I am sure that you will find a (ss)bbw that will tell you she had genuinely concerns about her weight, and that the FA in her life was in complete denial.

We got to get away from this concept that the other person, is in denial simply because they do not share our views, or do things we are uncomfortable with.

Because, they are a lot of people out there that label us as being in denial just for registering for Dimensions or donating to NAAFA.


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## seancraven (Nov 21, 2011)

Let me change that. I don't pull that one if the other person is in a state of serious denial; I pull it if I think the chance I'll be heard seems good enough to balance the chance of giving offense.


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## Pinktutu (Nov 25, 2011)

I'm a ssbbw and I have health issues. Now my dr assures me (like they all do) that losing weight and or WLS will make these problems go away. If I were involved with someone, I would expect them to worry about my health but support whatever I chose to do in regards to my weight. Pushing someone to lose or gain never works and in the end they usually resent that person.


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## liz (di-va) (Dec 3, 2011)

Webmaster said:


> Just to reiterate: The issue for discussion here is whether partners of supersize people should join the chorus of all those who advise/nag the supersize person to lose weight even if the supersize person is perfectly okay with who and what they are? I ask because there are those who wag a finger at us, telling us that if we really loved our partner, then we'd make them lose weight for their own good regardless of how the partner feels.



This discussion assumes no POV on the part of the FA about the issue of health and size--or perhaps passively assumes mainstream thinking (that underneath the nagging, it's still probably a good thing for people to try to lose weight). I wonder what FAs really think?

That is: I've always wondered what the percentage of FAs who (for instance) really believe in HAES precepts are. Not as any kind of PC test or anything--we're all getting through this life as we can--just curious .


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## mortalmoron (Dec 3, 2011)

Webmaster said:


> I've always been attracted to fat women. I find fatness alluring, elegant, comforting, and just plain wonderful in every respect. Always have, always will.
> 
> The way I always looked at it, if someone is destined to be fat, then a relationship with someone who appreciates her/him that way is a good thing. To be admired, wanted and appreciated instead of being criticized and urged to lose weight even at home simply has to be a good thing.
> 
> ...



In my view it depends whether you love them or lust after them, or whether you love them more than you lust after them or not. If you truly love somebody, you don't encourage them to do things which will harm them - there is no escaping that. If you tell somebody you love them who is plainly unhealthy and incapacitated through being superfat, and you encourage and assist them in being that way then you lying to them about love or you have never experienced love, which is a universal medicine for all ailments. In the case of healthy fat people, that is people who are not incapacitated or disabled because of their weight, I see no wrong or harm in admiring their form. In my case, my wife, I certainly lusted after her fat body and that was what got us together in the first place - then I developed love for her and worry that she is perhaps a little too heavy. What brought this home to me, was carrying a 20 inch CRT monitor half a mile home from the shop - after 200 yards I was puffing and panting and thought OMG my wife is carrying around 3 or 4 of these all the time on top of what I weigh. These FAs who lust after impossibly fat women and encourage them to eat more and more, they are demons in my view - all they are doing is harm. Perhaps an education for them would be a special suit with pockets all over for 500 lbs of lead weights - they could try wearing it for a couple of days.


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## Wagimawr (Dec 3, 2011)

mortalmoron said:


> In the case of healthy fat people, that is people who are not incapacitated or disabled because of their weight, I see no wrong or harm in *admiring their form*.


I think you mean something more like "encouraging their size" here; I can't imagine any FA saying that a woman over a certain size should not be ADMIRED.


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## mortalmoron (Dec 3, 2011)

Wagimawr said:


> I think you mean something more like "encouraging their size" here; I can't imagine any FA saying that a woman over a certain size should not be ADMIRED.



No, I wrote exactly what I mean.


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## CastingPearls (Dec 3, 2011)

mortalmoron said:


> No, I wrote exactly what I mean.


Please clarify: Are you saying that if a partner is incapacitated or disabled because of their weight that it is wrong to admire their body which is as I understand it, their form? Specifically, is it wrong, to you, for someone to admire or be aroused by or love someone who is incapacitated or disabled?


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## imfree (Dec 3, 2011)

mortalmoron said:


> In my view it depends whether you love them or lust after them, or whether you love them more than you lust after them or not. If you truly love somebody, you don't encourage them to do things which will harm them - there is no escaping that. If you tell somebody you love them who is plainly unhealthy and incapacitated through being superfat, and you encourage and assist them in being that way then you lying to them about love or you have never experienced love, which is a universal medicine for all ailments. In the case of healthy fat people, that is people who are not incapacitated or disabled because of their weight, I see no wrong or harm in admiring their form. In my case, my wife, I certainly lusted after her fat body and that was what got us together in the first place - then I developed love for her and worry that she is perhaps a little too heavy. What brought this home to me, was *carrying a 20 inch CRT monitor *half a mile home from the shop - after 200 yards I was puffing and panting and thought OMG my wife is carrying around 3 or 4 of these all the time on top of what I weigh. These FAs who lust after impossibly fat women and encourage them to eat more and more, they are demons in my view - all they are doing is harm. Perhaps an education for them would be a special suit with pockets all over for 500 lbs of lead weights - they could try wearing it for a couple of days.



Unless a TV or Monitor at least has a handle, there's no comparison. That 27" I carried was a killer, as it was heavy enough to make me off balance and if that wasn't enough, carrying that thing also kept my lungs from fully expanding, causing my oxygen saturation to plummet like a rock! Carrying body fat is a strain, but is not nearly as much as carrying an object of the same weight. Having a person carry 50 lbs of unbalanced weight, in my opinion, is a good way to manipulate someone into losing weight.

I guess it really is demonic to encourage extreme weight changes that are outside of that person's free will and/or at dangerous extremes.


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## mortalmoron (Dec 3, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> Please clarify: Are you saying that if a partner is incapacitated or disabled because of their weight that it is wrong to admire their body which is as I understand it, their form? Specifically, is it wrong, to you, for someone to admire or be aroused by or love someone who is incapacitated or disabled?



Imagine an inverse Dimensions populated by thinness fanatics, would you defend the admiration of stick thin men and women kept alive by intravenous drip or a piece of fruit a day, or would it get your hackles up? Certainly there would be nothing wrong in loving that person, making a wish for them to be happy and healthy but to encourage them to be that thin and thinner would be wrong. To be aroused by people on the road to death through a desire to be that thin and ever thinner, that cannot be right. The inverse is also wrong, unhealthily fat and ever fatter. In my view, what is right lies between extremes.


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## Wagimawr (Dec 3, 2011)

You can be attracted to an extremely supersized figure yet still be mature enough to put that away and join them on their focus in being healthier.

Just cause the creepy FAs on the internet can't manage that doesn't mean it's totally impossible.


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## chicken legs (Dec 4, 2011)

Wagimawr said:


> I think you mean something more like "encouraging their size" here; I can't imagine any FA saying that a woman over a certain size should not be ADMIRED.



Well some of FFA/FA's have limits and don't want to do a remake of Stephen King's Misery.


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## Tracyarts (Dec 4, 2011)

" In my view, what is right lies between extremes. "

I agree. And I think that when it comes to extremes, admiration is best kept within one's own mind, in the fantasy realm. 

Because admiration is validation, and validation can be a very powerful form of encouragement, and also a means of enablement to people who have addiction issues or other self-destructive tendencies. The attention and the ego-stroke can also become addictive in and of itself. Everybody wants to be admired and validated. But not everybody has the ability to keep it in persepctive. Some people find that they need the admiration and validation more than they need to take care of themselves. And they're willing to allow themselves to get into a bad place because of it. Liking what we like isn't a choice, but expressing it is. 

Tracy


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## mortalmoron (Dec 9, 2011)

Tracyarts said:


> " In my view, what is right lies between extremes. "
> 
> I agree. And I think that when it comes to extremes, admiration is best kept within one's own mind, in the fantasy realm.
> 
> ...



That validation concept is outstanding, thanks for that I have been applying it elsewhere I cannot thank you enough for putting it in my head


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## Weirdo890 (Dec 9, 2011)

Azrael said:


> Ahh this issue. For anyone who's been around long enough you may distincly remember a very similiar thread like this that was around quite awhile ago. This focused on something known as "FA Guilt." Needless to say, I am happy to see that this issue is back up for discussion (espescially since I am able to post in it now).
> 
> For the most part, I hold that a women's weight is her own however I will say that what she does with her weight can have consequences. If she wishes to lose weight I will fully support her in that however that does not mean that I will stay just as sexual as I was prior to any weight loss. Depending on the individual, sex can be a major or minor part of the relationship and because I am attracted to larger women losing weight can have an effect on my sex drive. This can ofcourse majorly or minorly effect the relationship and depending on this it may end or not, it all depends on how valuable sex is to the relationship. (I personnally go out of my way to make sure I like someone legitimately)
> 
> ...



I find myself in agreement with you. I don't think I could add to what you said.


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## joswitch (Dec 9, 2011)

chicken legs said:


> Well some of FFA/FA's have limits and don't want to do a remake of Stephen King's Misery.



Why does any discussion of FAs always devolve to the BS urban myth that being an FA means you want to make your lover bed-bound? wtf!??


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## joswitch (Dec 9, 2011)

mortalmoron said:


> Imagine an inverse Dimensions populated by thinness fanatics, would you defend the admiration of stick thin men and women kept alive by intravenous drip or a piece of fruit a day, or would it get your hackles up? Certainly there would be nothing wrong in loving that person, making a wish for them to be happy and healthy but to encourage them to be that thin and thinner would be wrong. To be aroused by people on the road to death through a desire to be that thin and ever thinner, that cannot be right. The inverse is also wrong, unhealthily fat and ever fatter. In my view, what is right lies between extremes.



So what you're saying the "how fat you like" is perfectly ok, but the "how fat that other guy likes" ooohhh, that's waaay too fat and that guy is a "demon".

That's really, ever so, convenient for you, isn't it?

Newsflash: unless you daily shame your wife into losing weight to the "normal" range there are millions of Thin Admirers out there who regard YOU as a "demon" / enabler / murderer.

People in glass houses... Pot calling the kettle... etc. etc.


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## joswitch (Dec 9, 2011)

Tracyarts said:


> " In my view, what is right lies between extremes. "
> 
> I agree. And I think that when it comes to extremes, admiration is best kept within one's own mind, in the fantasy realm.
> 
> ...



1) We are not talking about children here. We're talking about adults. People of autonomous mental competence. The idea that an expression of admiration is somehow this tsunami of irresistable emotion is *incredibly *patronising.

2) Again, it's awfully convenient that YOUR desires in a lover don't include anything that runs afoul of a society-wide mass hate & profit indocrination program. That way you get to tell other people that they should never, ever express their desires, while enjoying the freedom to express your own.

While were at it, is this what DIMs has come to? Again, on the supposedly protected FA/FFA board, that we have people telling FAs and FFAs that they are "demons" who should back the fuck up into the closet and stay there!??? Really?? Seriously? :doh:

With this level of fat negativity and loathing expressed for FAs on DIMs, how are things different *here* than *out there*???


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## imfree (Dec 9, 2011)

joswitch said:


> 1) We are not talking about children here. We're talking about adults. People of autonomous mental competence. The idea that an expression of admiration is somehow this tsunami of irresistable emotion is *incredibly *patronising.
> 
> 2) Again, it's awfully convenient that YOUR desires in a lover don't include anything that runs afoul of a society-wide mass hate & profit indocrination program. That way you get to tell other people that they should never, ever express their desires, while enjoying the freedom to express your own.
> 
> ...



It becomes heinous when you factor in the damning PM's and negative Rep comments that are hidden in Dimmer Darkness, out of public view!


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## joswitch (Dec 9, 2011)

imfree said:


> It becomes heinous when you factor in the damning PM's and negative Rep comments that are hidden in Dimmer Darkness, out of public view!



PMs are one thing, but negative repping is really screwed up! Talk about a poison cup!


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## butch (Dec 9, 2011)

Negative rep is against the rules, so if you get it, send a PM to a mod, and they'll deal with it. Also, if you're getting PMs you don't want, and you tell the person to stop, and they don't, then that also is against the rules.


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## Pinktutu (Dec 10, 2011)

To be totally honest, I've lost what this thread is about. Everyone seems more interested in being RIGHT, than being informative. 
I guess I look at it like this.
We're all adults. You're on this website for one reason or another that has to do with being fat or admiring it. You should be able to express your likes and dislikes as long as it violates no rules.
IN A RELATIONSHIP HOWEVER, your first and foremost concern should be the well being of your partner. This is a person you love. I think most of us would agree that having the person you love continue to live is a GOOD thing. 
You can't help what you're attracted to that's true but that doesn't always mean what you're attracted to translates into something that will work out in real life. Wanting your partner to be so fat that they are immobile is fine for FANTASY. But in real life obviously (I would think) this is not a healthy plan. I mean despite what the dr's say I don't think being 'overweight' is as bad as some of them make it out to be. But being so fat you are immobile and cant get out of bed is BAD it's not healthy, it leads to one place and that's death.


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## orangecrush (Dec 10, 2011)

I struggle with my wife wanting to lose weight. In my opinion she is a small bbw 240lbs. I dont encourage her to lose and we fight about it all the time. So what is more important? The FA being physically happy but an unhappy fat wife or thinner wife but unhappy FA? I know I sound selfish but that's what goes on in my head.


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## joswitch (Dec 10, 2011)

Pinktutu said:


> To be totally honest, I've lost what this thread is about. Everyone seems more interested in being RIGHT, than being informative.
> I guess I look at it like this.
> We're all adults. You're on this website for one reason or another that has to do with being fat or admiring it. You should be able to express your likes and dislikes as long as it violates no rules.
> IN A RELATIONSHIP HOWEVER, your first and foremost concern should be the well being of your partner. This is a person you love. I think most of us would agree that having the person you love continue to live is a GOOD thing.
> You can't help what you're attracted to that's true but that doesn't always mean what you're attracted to translates into something that will work out in real life. Wanting your partner to be so fat that they are immobile is fine for FANTASY. But in real life obviously (I would think) this is not a healthy plan. I mean despite what the dr's say I don't think being 'overweight' is as bad as some of them make it out to be.



As a matter of fact people in the "overweight" BMI category, on average, live longer than anoyone in any other BMI category, including the so-called "normal" category. Multiple peer-reviewed studies in more than one region of the world have proven this. Of course, you won't hear about it in the MSM, because it doesn't help sell diet-bullshit.

So much for the official line on how-fat-is-too-fat....



> But *being so fat you are immobile and cant get out of bed is BAD it's not healthy, it leads to one place and that's death.*



Really? How about that fattest guy in the world, what's his name? Manuel Uribe. Still alive. Shocking. I mean, how dare he!? Doesn't he know what MORBIDLY obese even means?? 

Meanwhile, thin people all over the world are dying every damn day. Every day. Dropping like flies. It's an epidemic! Quick, let's see if we can sell them some bullshit! Gotta be $$$ in that somewhere!

Oh, and how about all those single feedees who are gaining without any input from an FA partner, because that's what they, themselves, want. Should those people never partner with someone who finds them attractive, because that might help them gain? Should feedees remain single forever? Or only partner with fat-hating diet-freaks?

How about them smokers, eh? If you smoke cigs, you're probably gonna die of cancer. Should smokers never find love either? Unless it's with an anti-smoker who nags the shit out of them for the rest of their life?
There are people out there with a smoking fetish. Are they "demons" too?

How about gay men? They are at a higher risk of contracting STDs, including AIDs, should teh gays remain celibate?

Men die on average several years earlier than women. (While that may in part be due to men's health getting lower funding), it's true that if you cut off your balls and make yourself a eunuch, you will very probably live longer. Yet, most men, myself included, would rather remain intact even if that means we live shorter lives. Crazy, I know.


Is it really true that what everyone wants in a lover is some kind of live in doctor / fitness coach / dietician? Is it really true that the whole point of life is to live with the aim of surviving as long as possible, even if you are miserable?

Quality of life, may be more important than length. 


Who are you to tell any other adult what they should or should not do with their own bodies? Or who they should or should not love? Indeed, who are you to define what love is?

I for one am sick to death of people trying to draw lines in the sand and tell everyone else in the world the rules of love / loving.


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## joswitch (Dec 10, 2011)

orangecrush said:


> I struggle with my wife wanting to lose weight. In my opinion she is a small bbw 240lbs. I dont encourage her to lose and we fight about it all the time. So what is more important? The FA being physically happy but an unhappy fat wife or thinner wife but unhappy FA? I know I sound selfish but that's what goes on in my head.



If you can't both be happy at the same time, sounds like maybe you married the wrong person?

Did you know that she expected you to work as a live-in diet-coach before you got married? Or was it a bait and switch thing?


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## joswitch (Dec 10, 2011)

While we're at it - just how in hell is it, that if you google all over the interwebz, you find people complaining their asses off that:
- their once thin partner is now fat and they don't like it, at all.
- their partner has asked them to lose weight and they don't like that, at all.

How is it so increadibly rare that the people who are happy BEING fat, manage to find the people who are happy to BE with a fat person?

Is it because there are, in fact, only a very tiny number of people happy to be fat??

WTF is going on? Why are so many people so miserable?
Thin Admirers married to fat people and hating it. Fat people married to TAs and hating it. Fat people married to FAs, hating it cos they hate being fat. Ugh.
It's just such a depressing clusterfuck of misery!!


And what has the antis up in arms in this thread?? What terrible relationship nightmare? Oh yes, when an FA gets together with a fat person who is happy to stay fat, and they are happy together!!
Apparently, that is the worst thing evAR!! That's what we should worry about. Really. /sarcasm


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## imfree (Dec 10, 2011)

joswitch said:


> While we're at it - just how in hell is it, that if you google all over the interwebz, you find people complaining their asses off that:
> - their once thin partner is now fat and they don't like it, at all.
> - their partner has asked them to lose weight and they don't like that, at all.
> 
> ...



I'd gladly trade wealth, if I had it, to be in that type of relationship. It seems that the BHMFA/BBWFFA relationship is taboo here, in DimmerLand. (Dim, absence of light.)


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## Pinktutu (Dec 10, 2011)

joswitch said:


> As a matter of fact people in the "overweight" BMI category, on average, live longer than anoyone in any other BMI category, including the so-called "normal" category. Multiple peer-reviewed studies in more than one region of the world have proven this. Of course, you won't hear about it in the MSM, because it doesn't help sell diet-bullshit.
> 
> So much for the official line on how-fat-is-too-fat....
> 
> ...



Well first off you need to calm down, second you took everything I said out of context. 
Again I think you're arguing about who's right.
Do gays need to be celibate, thats their business, do smokers need to remain single again THEIR business, this was a question asked by the op..

"The issue for discussion here is whether partners of supersize people should join the chorus of all those who advise/nag the supersize person to lose weight even if the supersize person is perfectly okay with who and what they are? "

I am saying not tell your spouse to remain fat or lose weight but to ENCOURAGE them to be healthy. I never mentioned the BMI I said it once and I'll say it again because it's TRUE your body is a machine and in order for it to function CORRECTLY it must be healthy. If you dont move you cant be healthy. What happens to your muscles and bones if you dont move? 
Ok thanks


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## Pinktutu (Dec 10, 2011)

joswitch said:


> If you can't both be happy at the same time, sounds like maybe you married the wrong person?
> 
> Did you know that she expected you to work as a live-in diet-coach before you got married? Or was it a bait and switch thing?


Maybe not a diet coach but if losing weight is what she wants, encouraging her to be happy is perfectly fair. People change their minds about things ALL the time.
Are you saying she can't be happy fat one moment and want to lose weight the next?


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## joswitch (Dec 10, 2011)

Pinktutu said:


> Maybe not a diet coach but if losing weight is what she wants, encouraging her to be happy is perfectly fair. People change their minds about things ALL the time.
> Are you saying she can't be happy fat one moment and want to lose weight the next?



My questions were directed at orangecrush. 

You are not orangecrush.

You are pinktutu.

I realise all this psychedelia may be distracting, but do try to keep up.


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## joswitch (Dec 10, 2011)

Pinktutu said:


> *snip*
> Do gays need to be celibate, thats their business, do smokers need to remain single again THEIR business,
> *snip*



Exactly. 

So by the exact same principle: It's a fat person's and/or feedee's business what they do with their own personal body. It's their own business as to whether or not they involve a lover (FA and/or feeder and/or other) in whatever it is they are doing with their body.

No-one else's business. Not yours, not diet-pushers, not moralisers. Nobody else.

That, is my point, right there.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Dec 10, 2011)

joswitch said:


> WTF is going on? Why are so many people so miserable?
> Thin Admirers married to fat people and hating it. Fat people married to TAs and hating it. Fat people married to FAs, hating it cos they hate being fat.



But that isn't all. My research indicates that:

*Dancers invariably marry people who don't like to dance.
*Crunchy peanut butter lovers always marry people who prefer smooth.
*Early birds marry night owls.
*Those who sleep with the windows open marry people who insist on keeping the windows shut.

Surely God must appreciate irony.


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## Pinktutu (Dec 10, 2011)

joswitch said:


> My questions were directed at orangecrush.
> 
> You are not orangecrush.
> 
> ...



Gosh I am pretty sure I knew you were directing it at orangecrush... my question was for you.. Not him which is why I quoted you... not him.

Also as to your second quote from me, I think you're the one confused seriously how you keep reading what I'm posting as some other way in which I meant it I don't understand.
I never said it was all everyone's business AGAIN I say IT'S NONE OF ANYONE'S business what you do with your partner.. are you quite happy now?
Ok now that we have that out of the way. What I had said was in answer to the op. He asked for opinions, it is my opinion that if you love someone your sexual desires come after the health of your partner. Which is what I have been saying all along. I did not say all fat people are unhealthy, I did not say their partners should encourage them to lose weight.
I'm at a lose why you've decided to take my statement that I feel considering your own sexual desires over the health of your partner has anything to do with your statements that other people have no business in the say of what you do with your body. 
I'm not being purposefully obtuse or argumentative. I simply don't understand how you managed to twist my words into the counterpoint to your argument.


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## orangecrush (Dec 11, 2011)

joswitch said:


> If you can't both be happy at the same time, sounds like maybe you married the wrong person?
> 
> Did you know that she expected you to work as a live-in diet-coach before you got married? Or was it a bait and switch thing?



Well, as some of you know that are married, sometimes you don't find out everything about a person until years into the marriage. I thought my wife was comfortable with her body. Years into the marriage, she wanted to start a diet. Although I encouraged her to stay the same, she would get very upset that I did not support her. We started fighting because I did not like her losing weight. I know if you ftruly love someone you need to support whatever decsions they make to be happy. I don't think it was a bait and switch, I think she just decided to lose weight not knowing how important her body was to me. She also wasn't aware I am an FA so it was a shock when I told her. The more I have pressured her to stay heavier, the more she has hated me for it. Although sometimes I think if I never had told her I like her heavier, she probably would be that way anyway. I think the real problem is me telling her she needs to stay heavy or I won't be happy! Maybe if I did less bitchin and more loving, it wouldnt be a big thorn in our relationship.


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## Sidewinder (Jan 1, 2012)

Being overweight doesn't mean being unhealthy, being unhealthy means being unhealthy! Many people are genetically programmed to carry more weight.

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/WBL02105/Obese-But-Healthy.html

Everyone MUST do their own research on EVERYTHING as the media is chocked full of propoganda and political agenda, it always has been.

Why? Money & population control

Money: The diet industry in the US is worth over $60M

Population control: Scientifically proven that being too thin reduces your chances of getting pregnant significantly

The biggest strategic challenge facing the planet is too many people, the media play a big part in contolling human behavior to reduce it


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## imfree (Jan 1, 2012)

Sidewinder said:


> Being overweight doesn't mean being unhealthy, being unhealthy means being unhealthy! Many people are genetically programmed to carry more weight.
> 
> http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/WBL02105/Obese-But-Healthy.html
> 
> ...



I'll raise you this one in "population control". People who think they're too fat will avoid sex!!!

I'm fat and sexy, so I call bullshit on that statement, but the mainstream buys it hook, line, and sinker!


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## Sidewinder (Jan 2, 2012)

Sidewinder said:


> Being overweight doesn't mean being unhealthy, being unhealthy means being unhealthy! Many people are genetically programmed to carry more weight.
> 
> http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/WBL02105/Obese-But-Healthy.html
> 
> ...



Correction, $60BN


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