# Knee pain



## JerseyGirl07093 (Apr 16, 2007)

Hi everyone!

Lately I've been having a problem and I thought some of you here might be able to help.....
My knees have been killing me!
And I know it's probably because of my recent weight gain. For the record, I'm 5'8", pear shaped and probably close to around 400 lbs. (And, no, that is not a personal ad!) 
I've noticed the pain especially when I've been gettin up and down from my seemingly very low couch and very low toilet seat (sorry if that is TMI) and when I'm bending my knees. This seemed to come on all of a sudden. Other than possibly losing some weight (for medical reasons), which would not happen overnight anyway, do you have any suggestions to help with this? 
Exercises? Creams? A higher toilet?  
Anyone have any experience with this?
Thanks in advance for the help!


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## QtPatooti (Apr 17, 2007)

Jersey... It could be either weight or the deterioration of the cartilage in the knee joint. I am 45, and by now, I have pretty much lost all cartilage in my left knee, and have limited cartilage in the right knee. I can hear it poping and grinding. The noise, in addition to the pain, would be a clue. If you dont have any popping and grinding, maybe it is the weight. It is very painful. Celebrex helps. I have been taking glucosamine daily - though I am not sure that it helps. They suggest that glucosamine condroitin helps to rebuild some cartilage. But I am not convinced of that. The last two years I have had a series of shots of what is called Synvisc - which I believe mimics the synovial fluid in the joint, creating some cushioning. I have my doubts about that. I have also, on occasion had cortisone shots, which decreases inflamation and then as a result pain.

The next step might be surgical replacement, but they say I am too young for that, because it supposedly is only good for 10 years. As you can see, there is no easy answer. Read up on the glusocamine condroitin - I avoided the condroitin because of the sodium, because it would make my hands and ankles swell. So read up on that and talk to your doctor about it.


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## Ruby Ripples (Apr 17, 2007)

Just to add to Qts post, constantly getting up and down from too low furniture exacerbates knee pain, so having higher furniture definitely helps. You can buy a seat that raises the height of your toilet, they are made for people with arthritic conditions. If it's possible to raise the height of your couch too, you will feel the benefit.

The Glucosamine Chondroitin is worth a try. While some people feel no benefit from it, many do. Im not 100% sure if this IS the case but I read in an article that it only works if there is a certain amount of cartilage left in the joints, its no use if the cartilage is virtually gone. A good friend of mine who is ssbbw, had very painful knees and has been taking the Glucosamine/Chondroitin for over a year now and has virtually no knee pain any more. I think you'll just have to try it and see if it works for you. 

Good luck


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## MissToodles (Apr 17, 2007)

I use sam-e which helps my joints but is terribly expensive ($40 for a month's supply). If you want to try it, you should find a high quality brand, one that is enteric coated and take it with a B-complex supplement as this helps the body process the sam-e. 

The second one sounds a bit kooky and I read it in a diet book (protein power) but I swear it helps a bit! They mentioned some chemical compoment in foods like red meat, wine, eggs (the chemical starts with an "ar' but don't have the book in front of me)that cause inflammation for people who suffer from osteroarthitis. Since eating more vegetarian meals and less red meats, I do have less knee flare ups.


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## Sandie S-R (Apr 17, 2007)

All very good and helpful info. As someone who has had major knee issue for some time, I'll chime in on a few more things. 

It is definitely worth trying the glucosamine/chondroitin. For a minimal investment you may get some good relief. Be aware that it usually takes about a month for most people to begin to feel the effects. Be patient. I also recommend MSM as well. It is a sulfur that is a component in joint health. These are supplement type products that you can get at any grocery or health food store. I get mine at Costco in bulk.  

See your Doc and get a referral to a orthopedic specialist. You should have x rays to determine the degree of any damage that may be happening in the knee. There are many things that can be causing the knee pain. Some are easily fixable, some not. Do not let them tell you that losing weight will stop the pain. Insist that your pain be addressed immediately. It is likely that your weight is impacting the issue, but it needs to be addressed non-the-less. If they can do an open MRI on your knee, go for it. It gives the best information on everything going on in the knee. 

If it is osteoarthritis, ask about cortisone injections or synvisc. Cortisone is a steroid that can bring tremendous relief for 3 to 6 months. I had the injections for 7 years, and they were blessed relief. Synvisc is synthetic viscose material that is infected into the knee to provide some cushion where yours has eroded. My Doc would not recommend it for me. Some have a great experience with Synvisc, some do not. It is a series of injections that are supposed to give about 6 months to a year of relief. 

All that said, it is also beneficial to do stretching exercises, and strengthening of the quad muscles to help support the knees. Also, very well cushioned and supportive athletic shoes are quite helpful. Once the knees start to deteriorate you need to do everything you can to keep what you have left. Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions.


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## moore2me (Apr 17, 2007)

I have had good luck diminishing my knee pain by building up the muscles in my legs and knees. I have done this by doing specific exercises that were recommended by trainers & physical therapists. You should get someone who knows about such things to show you what to do. It will really help. The concept is that stronger muscles will help take the load off overworked joints. 

I worked out on land initially (using leg weights), but now most of the time in water. My knee pain is almost gone except for rare occasions. It did not happen overnight, but most feel better within a couple of weeks. I try and work out at least an hour three times a week - but I have been doing this for a couple of years now. I weigh a little over 300 pounds, so working out in water is essential for me. But, you could also do leg & knee exercises from a chair if you need to.

For pain control, the following products may help:
- Over the counter cream called *Mobisyl*. It is available from selected drugstores or by special order. 
- Doctor prescribed pain relief patches. Some people in my exercises classes recommended the use of these.
- Ice down knees (or knee) if it starts to bother you. Put you knee up and create a little bend in it and put the ice bag on it. I have sat at my desk at work and even driven my car with ice bags on my knee.
- As usual, tylenol or ibuprofen may also help.

Good luck & I hope this helps.


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## Cosmic~Wombat (Apr 17, 2007)

I bought knee braces for both knees.. they are light weight were only around 30 bucks each and will fit even 400 pound pear shaped legs. I will look up where I got them if you like but they are comfortable and keep my knees in order. I did so much damage to my knees in my early 20s that no matter what weight I am.. They hurt.
If you would like the info just let me know.. be happy to provide you with it.
Wombat


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## Zandoz (Apr 17, 2007)

I'm no doc, but my knee arthritis was more or less sudden onset as you describe. The only way to be sure is with x-rays. I have the same problems getting up from low seats as you describe...to the point that my cane is no help and I need one or more folks help. The raised toilet seats help. No reason the same would not work for the couch. If it's going to be just me sitting on the couch, I just grab the other cushion and double up...works quite well. On the glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM supplements, my doc way back when told me to try them for 3 months, then stop...if I noticed an increase in pain when I stopped , go back on them...if not, no point in wasting money. For me they do noticeably help a little...but even a little is worth it for me.


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## Jeannie (Apr 17, 2007)

This thread has been so informative! Thank you! I have had pain in my left knee for a while now and it makes me sad because I love going for walks and riding bikes, both causing flare-ups. I'll be looking into the suggestions here!


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 17, 2007)

I'm going to second what moore2me said. I had surgery on my knees and had tons of damage cartilege removed maybe ten or so years ago and they haven't been right since. I blew off physical therapy for years but finally broke down and started doing muscle strengthening exercises a few months ago. HUGE difference. Pain is GONE, no kidding.

I can't take Glucosamine Chondroitin because I am allergic to shellfish so I started taking shark cartilege pills. Between that and the exercises it's like I'm a new person. 

Also I would suggest going to the doctor. I blew off going to the doctor for years but finally broke down and went. Turned out I had to have arthriscopic surgery on my knees which on the surface sounds like a sucky deal. Had I not had the surgery then though, down the road the problem would have escalated to where i would have had to have my knees replaced and they are NOT good to the fatties that need knee replacement from what I've heard. Do what you can but go to the doctor.




moore2me said:


> I have had good luck diminishing my knee pain by building up the muscles in my legs and knees. I have done this by doing specific exercises that were recommended by trainers & physical therapists. You should get someone who knows about such things to show you what to do. It will really help. The concept is that stronger muscles will help take the load off overworked joints.
> 
> I worked out on land initially (using leg weights), but now most of the time in water. My knee pain is almost gone except for rare occasions. It did not happen overnight, but most feel better within a couple of weeks. I try and work out at least an hour three times a week - but I have been doing this for a couple of years now. I weigh a little over 300 pounds, so working out in water is essential for me. But, you could also do leg & knee exercises from a chair if you need to.
> 
> ...


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## Jes (Apr 17, 2007)

my mother's voice is coming to me, even though she hasn't read this thread. Bear with me while I channel her, please:

Be careful not to take something like Tylenol too frequently. Recent studies have shown that frequent use of [and I'm not totally sure what it is, but any google search should clarify, and/or someone here can remind us all] is really, really bad for the ole tum.

A med. I'm on has given me bad body aches, and I was taking over the counter stuff a lot, but I've realized how hurtful that can be. So don't do it!

Also, make your bed, and don't smoke! --oh, that was mom again! sorry.


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## Cosmic~Wombat (Apr 17, 2007)

Jes said:


> my mother's voice is coming to me, even though she hasn't read this thread. Bear with me while I channel her, please:
> 
> Be careful not to take something like Tylenol too frequently. Recent studies have shown that frequent use of [and I'm not totally sure what it is, but any google search should clarify, and/or someone here can remind us all] is really, really bad for the ole tum.
> 
> ...



no.. tylenol is a liver toxen.. it will kill you. It is acetaminophen and if you understand how your liver works you will never take it. I hold an active Pharm D and know what the hell I am talking about... go with advil and let anything acetaminophen be as far away from your life as you can. If you are a fat girl you already have liver damage so please.. please stay away from anything acetaminophen related.. that means tylenol. 
just my two cents.
wombat


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## Sweet Tooth (Apr 17, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> I can't take Glucosamine Chondroitin because I am allergic to shellfish so I started taking shark cartilege pills. Between that and the exercises it's like I'm a new person.



I have the same problem with shellfish allergies. Fortunately, some wonderful scientists have come up with vegetarian supplements that essentially do the same thing. I get mine from Vitamin Shoppe.

It's not like my knee pain totally went away, but it certainly felt better overall.


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## Tad (Apr 17, 2007)

Cosmic~Wombat said:


> no.. tylenol is a liver toxen.. it will kill you. It is acetaminophen and if you understand how your liver works you will never take it. I hold an active Pharm D and know what the hell I am talking about... go with advil and let anything acetaminophen be as far away from your life as you can. If you are a fat girl you already have liver damage so please.. please stay away from anything acetaminophen related.. that means tylenol.
> just my two cents.
> wombat



OK, you just dropped me dead in my tracks, cause I've long used acetimenophen not quite like candy, but with kind of a 'when in doubt, if I think I have a touch of fever, an ache, the start of a headache, some sinus pain, whatever, have one and it probably makes life better.' attitude. I'd never heard anything bad about it before.

Can anyone point me towards more info on this subject?

-Ed


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Apr 17, 2007)

Any time my weight goes up and I start getting pain ANYWHERE in my legs i.e. heals, ankles and even hips and lower back, I find that switching to good jogging type shoes and adding some Dr. Scholls Gel Inserts truly help to alleviate all the problems I have had in the past. Cheap easy fix- you just have to be religious about wearing those shoes and inserts......


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## crazygrad (Apr 17, 2007)

Tylenol can build up in the liver with heavy usage. It also ioncreases the effects of alcohol on the liver, so you shouldn't take it if you drink alot.

that said, most pain relievers have some negative side effects. Use them prudently.


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## tonynyc (Apr 17, 2007)

Just adding to what others have posted...

1.I was able to recover from knee surgery 'torn cartilage' from wrestling; but, when doing any leg strengthing exercises ;ie, squats, leg extensions, leg curls etc. do not lock the knees - this just aggravates things. Consult with your Physician and Physical Thearpist regarding the best course of action. 

2. You could apply an ordorless muscle rub like tiger balm Or any rub that is 'aspirin' free...

3. You could also apply other pain management techniques such as : massage therapy, heat and cold therapy, accupuncture or accupressure but again consult and see what works best for you...


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## Scrubbed_In (Apr 17, 2007)

Cosmic~Wombat said:


> no.. tylenol is a liver toxen.. it will kill you. It is acetaminophen and if you understand how your liver works you will never take it. I hold an active Pharm D and know what the hell I am talking about... *go with advil and let anything acetaminophen be as far away from your life as you can.* If you are a fat girl you already have liver damage so please.. please stay away from anything acetaminophen related.. that means tylenol.
> just my two cents.
> wombat





crazygrad said:


> Tylenol can build up in the liver with heavy usage. It also ioncreases the effects of alcohol on the liver, so you shouldn't take it if you drink alot.
> 
> *that said, most pain relievers have some negative side effects. Use them prudently.*



Would have to agree for the most part. Also, with advil (ibuprofen) and other NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) caution should be used in those with diabetes as these drugs are eliminated through the kidneys. In diabetes the kidneys come under strain, so NSAIDs further strain the kidneys and in advanced cases of diabetes can increase the risk of kidney failure and need for dialysis. And Jes, NSAIDs (Advil, Aleve, Motrin, etc) are the pain relievers that can be harsh on one's stomach. Wouldn't you agree Wombat?

With this, I totally agree with crazygrad that most pain relievers have some sort of negative side effects. They should be used for acute pain. Pain meds used chronically are often associated with many problems.

As far as what's causing the pain, it could be a one or more of a myriad of the injuries one can sustain to the knee including a tear in the meniscus, osteoarthritis, patellofemoral pain syndrome, patellar tendonitis, PLICA syndromes, injury to various ligaments, etc etc. I agree with everyone else - your best bet is to get to a good orthopaedic practitioner (preferably one who won't brush off a heavier female as just another potential problem patient) to figure out what exactly is going on and what specifically you can do for it.

I hope you're able to get to the bottom of this! Please keep us all updated.

Take care and best of luck.


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## QtPatooti (Apr 17, 2007)

Cosmic~Wombat said:


> If you would like the info just let me know.. be happy to provide you with it.Wombat



Wombat, I would love to know where you got your knee braces 

thanks

(edit) Ohh forgot to add, definitely be careful about what you take and how much - talk to your doctor. I take celebrex, withing my doctors prescription, it is a necessary evil. I saw someone mention ice here, it is good for short term relieve of nerve pain, it will take the edge off of some bad pain.


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## Paul (Apr 17, 2007)

JerseyGirl.
Here is what I found on Glucosamine. this Canadian study concluded that there is no long term improvement for patients taking Glucosamine for joint pain.



> Glucosamine, a popular dietary supplement for osteoarthritis, has shown no long-term beneficial effect according to a study conducted by a researcher from the University of British Columbia working at the Arthritis Research Centre of Canada. The effectiveness of glucosamine has been questioned for years. The results of the Canadian study renew the controversy.



More here about the study: http://arthritis.about.com/od/glucosamine/a/glucosamineoa.htm


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## JerseyGirl07093 (Apr 17, 2007)

Thanks to everyone for all the replies!
I'll definitely be visiting the doctor soon, but now I'll have more questions to add to the long list I always bring! 
I know I can discuss this with him without feeling worried that he'll automatically blame it on my weight. He is such a good doctor. The first one I think I've ever had in my life that I've actually LIKED, not just tolerated. 
Now that I think I've finally solved my log in problem I'll keep everyone updated.
And feel free to add more to this post if you have any other suggestions.
Thanks again!

-Lisa


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## MissToodles (Apr 18, 2007)

You can also purchase a toliet seat like this one:

http://www.independentforlife.com/products/ProductDisplay.asp?ProductID=898

I forgot to mention a few things about sam-e. You shouldn't take it if you're already using anti depressents (maoi or ssri types). You should avoid sam-e if you have Bipolar disorder. Not only does SAM-E help with joint pain, it can help with depression. It should also be taken on an empty stomach 1 hour before a meal or two hours after. Like most drugs/supplements it is best for you to take it at a consistent, set time.


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## jkssbbw (Apr 19, 2007)

I feel your pain I have RA and have pain in most of my joints,warm baths,and antinflamitorys,my doctor told me I have to reduce my weight back to 200lbsI Its going to be hard for me to lose65lbs I hope you feel better soon.


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## QtPatooti (Apr 19, 2007)

JK: I have psoriatic arthritis, similar to your Rheumatoid. Its like a visious circle - you have to lose weight to help you feel better, but a combination of weight and the arthritis and arthritis meds has you feeling so weak and tired it is hard to do so. What medication are you on? I am on remicade infusions which do work wonderfully. It is allowing me to work. I dont think I would be able to otherwise.


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## chickadee (Apr 20, 2007)

Last time I was at the doc's (knee injury) he told me to do heat or ice, whatever felt best. So maybe you could try out heat if ice doesn't help.

I would second seeing an orthopedic surgeon. They know their stuff.


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## Sandie S-R (Apr 20, 2007)

jkssbbw said:


> I feel your pain I have RA and have pain in most of my joints,warm baths,and antinflamitorys,my doctor told me I have to reduce my weight back to 200lbsI Its going to be hard for me to lose65lbs I hope you feel better soon.



My 115 pound step sister has RA. Losing weight will not help nor make RA go away. Treatment and medications can help. She takes celebrex, and it seems to help her a lot.


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## Theatrmuse/Kara (Jun 17, 2007)

Last week I made an appointment with my Orthopedic Doc for an opinion on what I THOUGHT was a knee injury...............turns out, after Xrays on both knees and ankles............I have pretty severe Osteoarthritis already at age 52.......Damn.

I knew that my supersize could contribute to this, environment and also heredity....but it has kind of left me in shock........I really didn't expect this before my 60s.

So, those of you diagnosed with knee pain.........are there many with this Osteoarthritis diagnosis. Has anyone had it for quite a long time.........what are some of the things to expect as it progresses? Suggestions welcome! 
Thanks for any answers,
Kara


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## Sandie S-R (Jun 18, 2007)

Theatrmuse/Kara said:


> Last week I made an appointment with my Orthopedic Doc for an opinion on what I THOUGHT was a knee injury...............turns out, after Xrays on both knees and ankles............I have pretty severe Osteoarthritis already at age 52.......Damn.
> 
> I knew that my supersize could contribute to this, environment and also heredity....but it has kind of left me in shock........I really didn't expect this before my 60s.
> 
> ...



Yeah, when I was 50, I was diagnosed with "end-stage" osteoarthritis of the knees. Basically bone on bone - little to no cartiledge. I've also got osteoarthritis in my thumbs. No fun. Several things that are important Kara, is to stay active, don't let the joints get stiff, and exercise and build up your quad muscles to help support your knees. You can ask for anti-inflamitories if your Doc and you think they will help, or you can take just aspirin and other things like glucosamine and chondroitin. But be proactive. As time progresses, you will know a knee is really bad when it starts to fuse in a bent position. When you get up in the morning and find it difficult to unbend your knee (from sleeping) you will know it is time to start talking about knee replacements. 

Sorry you are going thru this sweetie, and hang in there.


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## Theatrmuse/Kara (Jun 18, 2007)

Thanks, Sandie. We are all in this together, right????? LOL! Yeah, I am bone on bone in a few places now.

I believe I need to stay REALLY positive about this right now...........feel really a bit down, but ya know..............things could ALWAYS be worse!!!

We all got to get something as we age! At least, we are breathing and still having fun and causing a bit of trouble! LOLOL!
Hugs to you, Kara


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## Theatrmuse/Kara (Jun 18, 2007)

missaf said:


> I had a bad knee injury from playing football in high school (yes, I even tried out for the team  ), so when I was 17, the doc removed the lining around my knee joint because it was so messed up inside. He warned me that by 35 the arthritis would be so bad I'd probably need a knee replacement. 15 years later, it's a little achey, but I take glucosamine and calcium and so far so good, I'm not quite 35, but still doing really well



That's good news, honey! Here's to your continued good luck!

We shall overcome the aches and pains! LOL! Hugs, Kara


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