# Darkened upper lip



## activistfatgirl (Jul 29, 2008)

So, this weekend I was at the beach and when I went to the bathroom I was pretty horrified to note that my upper lip appeared to be darkened, almost like a mini five-o-clock shadow. For full disclosure, I've always had a bit of hair on my upper lip, but its minimal and a super quick shave does away w/ it.

I did some research and it could be something called melasma, which is also called the "mark of pregnancy" . It's normally attributed to "hormones" in women (never really know what that means). I read that it comes out more with tanning, as its just extra melanin. 

Anyways, its not that noticeable right now but I'm shaking in my boots. I know this sounds really vain, but I was really upset about it. I don't like wearing makeup, preferring "natural beauty" (LOL), and while I have many strong female influences who don't even remove hair, having a shadowy lip sorta makes me want to vomit/cry/cry.

Anyone else got this? Anything to do about it? Related to other things?


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## moore2me (Jul 29, 2008)

Activistgirl, If you are taking medications, check and see if any of them have warnings about being out in the sunshine. Sometimes medications and UV light interact in strange ways and cause dermal issues.

In addition, there are some unlikely chemical exposures that can cause darkening of the skin. These are inorganic arsenic, and acetic acid (vingear). Here is a link to CDC info on the effects of inorganic arsenic.
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts2.html


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## Miss Vickie (Jul 29, 2008)

missaf said:


> This can also be a sign of PCOS issues. Think skin darkens with exposure to excess insulin not used by the body because of resistance and the exposure to sun makes it look a lot darker.



That was my first thought as well.

I see a fair amount of melasma, and it's much more noticeable over the bridge of the nose and on the cheeks -- not the upper lip. Also it tends to be more brownish, like huge freckles, not the dark color like you get with insulin resistance.

AFG, I can imagine how freaked you must be. Can you get in and either see your doc or a dermatologist?


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## Flyin Lilac (Jul 29, 2008)

My hairdresser and one of my best friends have melasma, also known as "mother's mask." In my best friend's case it definitely gets much more pronounced along her jawline in the summer because she tans easily and daily, but in the wintertime it's virtually unnoticeable. My hairdresser uses some system of creams that I can't remember the name of (pretty sure it's prescription-only by a dermatologist). I'll try to remember to call her tomorrow and find out what the stuff is, and report it here.


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## activistfatgirl (Aug 1, 2008)

I didn't want to reply to bump up the thread, but that's not very nice! Thanks, all.

Do you know if its possible to have PCOS without the major symptoms like irregular/missed periods? That's definitely not me. And in terms of the Africa..whatever the dark skin is called, I can't conclusively say have that. I was just staring at this pigmented patch on my right arm that I've had forever (since I was young, really)...it's thickish...just not sure it looks like anything I've seen online.

I'm still thinking melasma, especially as this cropped up after I got tanned, but I guess I won't know for sure until I find a doctor that will take me seriously (Have already brought up PCOS once to no avail).

If anyone has any "I have PCOS but didn't know cause symptoms weren't extreme," that would be good to know!

The thing about my face is that its hard to see it unless you're farther away. I can't see it in the mirror, really, but when I step back, it's there. Faint.

NO PICTURES AT LABOR DAY. ha haha.


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## Miss Vickie (Aug 2, 2008)

Afg, you can absolutely have some of the symptoms of PCOS without the reproductive aspect of it. I had the insulin resistance, the hair loss and the acne -- but had regular periods and only occasional large-ish cysts, not the string of pearl type associated with PCOS.

I wish I could remember the name of the skin darkening. Anyone? It's like Agricans somethingorother. Sorry, very busy day at work, and I'm brain fried.

To sum up, though, yes it's possible to have some of the symptoms of PCOS, and they often refer to it as insulin resistance or metabolic syndrome or syndrome x.

Hope this helps...


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## Risible (Aug 2, 2008)

Miss Vickie said:


> ...I wish I could remember the name of the skin darkening. Anyone? It's like Agricans somethingorother...



From my medical transcriptionist days: acanthosis nigricans.


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## Miss Vickie (Aug 2, 2008)

Risible said:


> From my medical transcriptionist days: acanthosis nigricans.



Boy was *I* way off. Thanks, Ris'! I knew I could count on you.


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## activistfatgirl (Aug 2, 2008)

I need to vent a bit. It takes so much work to figure out our health stuff sometimes. I know that if I dont go into my dr office well-informed on exactly what I theorize is going on, shes not going to do anything or listen to me. I've already mentioned PCOS and even showed her some new hairs on my belly, which is sorta embarassing to me.

Ive been reading everything I can for about a week now and it looks like i likely have hidrantis suppartiva (cant spell it yet), but many of us know this--boils; and Might be starting to develop mild insulin resistance or extra androgen fatty related symptoms. It's hard to measure this stuff, because so much of what I see online is much more extreme than what I have.

Ive yet to deal with any fatty related stuff, really. I mean, besides boils, but that's been pretty light and on and off and not so much "fatty related" as some things can be. 

I'm not a doctor, so what do I know? Just trying to figure out the best I can so I can convince them to do some tests, which always seems to be met with passivity or "there, there this is in your head"

I didnt think I was that bad about sugar, but Im probably in some sort of denial. I dont guzzle sugary soda, but I eat a lot of simple carbs and lately havent been cooking my normal high-veggie diet---rather lots of "white" foods.

Im always impressed with everyone here. I know im not dealing with anything severe or that intense, but i dont know shit about any of it. Though I guess I shouldnt disregard how frustrating the dark skin thing is....

My mother is a juvenile diabetic, insulin dependent and I should know better. I havent had my blood sugar tested in years!

Anyways, thanks for helping me work stuff out in the time before I can actually see a pro and fight them.  Will update y'all later. Maybe this is all in my head!

Though, then id just be crazy.


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## Miss Vickie (Aug 3, 2008)

activistfatgirl said:


> I need to vent a bit. It takes so much work to figure out our health stuff sometimes. I know that if I dont go into my dr office well-informed on exactly what I theorize is going on, shes not going to do anything or listen to me. I've already mentioned PCOS and even showed her some new hairs on my belly, which is sorta embarassing to me.



I'm so sorry. That's so frustrating, and truly silly on their part. It's their JOB to figure out what's wrong with us. :doh: 



> Ive been reading everything I can for about a week now and it looks like i likely have hidrantis suppartiva (cant spell it yet), but many of us know this--boils; and Might be starting to develop mild insulin resistance or extra androgen fatty related symptoms. It's hard to measure this stuff, because so much of what I see online is much more extreme than what I have.



Well I think it's good that you're looking at possibilities when you may be in the early stages of something. It's much easier to treat it that way, rather than wait until you're really sick with it. The boils could have to do with insulin resistance, and they may have to do with MRSA. Next time you get an active one, it might be a good idea to have it cultured and see. MRSA is becoming rampant in some areas, and it's very hard to treat, though treatable with the right antibiotics.

Insulin resistance is tough because lots of people have good sugar control but are pumping out scads of insulin to do so. So on the surface, your glucose will look great -- even your HgA1C will look great -- but you may be stressing your pancreas by making tons of insulin. Most doctors don't seem to test for insulin levels, something I don't really understand. I had a glucose/insulin tolerance test and while it showed that my sugar levels were great, I was producing ridiculous amounts of insulin to do that. Your body can do that only so long before the pancreas craps out.



> I'm not a doctor, so what do I know? Just trying to figure out the best I can so I can convince them to do some tests, which always seems to be met with passivity or "there, there this is in your head"



You know a LOT because it's your body. You live in your skin, Afg. No one else does, and so therefore your experience and feelings about what's going on are supremely important. Is there any way you can switch to a different doctor? If you're suspecting PCOS, an endocrinologist might be the way to go. They have way more experience in diagnosing and treating PCOS than garden variety docs and even OB/GYN's.



> I dont guzzle sugary soda, but I eat a lot of simple carbs and lately havent been cooking my normal high-veggie diet---rather lots of "white" foods.



For most of us, it's the "white foods" that do is in. Maybe if you start trying to change your diet, you'll see some improvement. That alone is a good start toward diagnosing yourself, and it's also part of the treatment if you do have insulin resistance.



> Im always impressed with everyone here. I know im not dealing with anything severe or that intense, but i dont know shit about any of it. Though I guess I shouldnt disregard how frustrating the dark skin thing is....



Never minimize your feelings. What you're going through is just as significant as anything else we discuss here. Keeping quiet and not talking about it won't help, so.... let it out. Many of us have been where you are, and most of us still struggle with it. If we can't help, we can at least commiserate with you. And the skin darkening thing is HUGE for women. It's awful, and frustrating and embarrassing. I didn't have it but I had the hair loss, which about broke my heart. 

Please keep us in the loop, okay?



missaf said:


> In my opinion, if you're going to seek a diagnosis in PCOS, you need to be aware of all the symptoms, and you don't have to have them all at the same time. I never miss periods unless it's stress related, but I have the darkening of the skin, extra hair growth, insulin resistance and cysts that pop the first day of my period that are incredibly painful, even worse than labor ever felt like.
> 
> You also need to be aware that daily checking your sugar isn't always the best test for insulin resistance. An A1C is going to chart your sugars over a longer period of time and give the doctor a better indication of where your averages are. Testing a fasting is deceiving in this case, because you're getting one number compared to the ebbs and flows of daily insulin resistance.
> 
> ...



Yup. What you said. I love that site soul cysters. I think it's just chock full of information for people who are trying to get diagnosed, who are in treatment, etc. It's just really a remarkable site. And yes, not everyone has every symptom. 

Like you, I never missed a period and I only occasionally developed ginormous cysts, never the itty bitty ones; but I had hair loss, abdominal weight gain, and acne. I also had fairly severe insulin resistance. I see PCOS in a fair amount of my patients and they, too, experience it differently. Most are very fertile but have the skin darkening, and thicker hair on arms and other places we don't usually grow it. So it really depends on the individual involved.

What really seems to help is early treatment; it seems that the longer it goes on, the more stubborn it is to treat.


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