# Are you aroused/attracted to negative, painful, or disgusting aspects of size?



## ripley (Jun 26, 2008)

Anonymous, multiple-choice poll (if I don't screw it up).

I got this idea from some posts in the "Fantasy to Concern" thread. You're free to discuss it here if you want to.


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## MisterGuy (Jun 26, 2008)

Okay, I'll bite. I'm somewhat aroused by the idea of dating someone that is shockingly fat to my friends. And a component of what's titillating about it is their disapproval/incomprehension and an accompanying bit of shame on my part. I guess the taboo aspect of it or something, not sure. Not a huge part of my fantasy life, but a component. None of the rest of the stuff in the survey, though.


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## ripley (Jun 26, 2008)

That's interesting. Your own shame is a component? I didn't think of that part of it.


Thank you for answering, didn't know if anyone would be bold enough.


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## wrestlingguy (Jun 26, 2008)

My only true experience with this involved a girl that I lived with for roughly 2 1/2 years.

Due to depression medication, she nearly doubled her weight (from about 145 when I met her to around 278 when she "moved out").

Part of the turn on for me at that time was watching her, as she moved up the size chart from a size 8 to a 22-24. She would try to make old clothes fit, and would start to cry when she couldn't get them over her ass/hips/thighs. Although I did my best to console her, there was a certain sexual excitement to me about watching her frustration with this, as it appeared she was out of control.

In addition, I took great pleasure in watching her struggle to climb steps, clean the condo, anything that became a new problem for her was met with arousal by me. She was aware of my excitement over her predicament, and we had a rocky relationship during our time together, as she viewed my excitement as callousness, as if I didn't care about her problems, which to her were her depression & weight gain.

Ultimately, I got her into therapy, and she resolved the issues to her satisfaction, but the feelings about me "enjoying" her problems needed to come to an end, and as such, the relationship. I also did a bit of therapy about this, as she had me believing the possibility that the sexual pleasure I derived from her "situation" made me an ogre. My therapist reminded me that I must have cared for her, and ignored my arousals just long enough to get her help, and that I might just not be the horrible person she thought I was.

My catharsis took place several years later, right after I had just met Carla. This gal came over to say hello, and inform me that she now knew that I was not the monster that she made me out to be a while ago. She had lost some of her weight, but was still floating in the size 16-18 range. She had also come to grips with her weight and appearance, and had become more accepting of herself, and I was very happy for her.

I think that I have travelled down the road a bit more as a FA since then, and I truly doubt that I would be aroused by the same thing today, maybe because the newness of the phenomenon is gone, or possibly due to a "been there, done that" attitude. Either way, newer things excite me these days, and none of them have to do with negative, painful, or disgusting aspects of size.

I'm interested in seeing the spectrum not only of what people find disgusting, but also in what people find sexy in said disgusting aspects of size. This thread should get very interesting soon.............


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## Ted Michael Morgan (Jun 26, 2008)

I love watching a lover gain a hundred pounds. I can think of former lovers with whom I would have enjoyed this journey.


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## ChubbyFA (Jun 26, 2008)

Yeah I would definitely say the "breaking things/not being able to fit" one and the "being out of breath" one as well as laziness; my girlfriend can be so lazy sometimes (if it were all the time I'd probably get sick of it tho) and I find it so incredibly hot (I also find it weird that i find it to be hot, but whatever)


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## Webmaster (Jun 26, 2008)

I think there is a huge difference between "I AM aroused" and "I CAN BE aroused." Just about everyone can be aroused by things that are either politically incorrect, frowned upon, judged and so on. So a poll like this automatically raises red flags to me. I cannot see the outcome as anything other than, "Ewwww...!! Those slimy demented FAs are into THAT?!!? Gross. Humiliating. Cruel. Evil." Hence, given that FA fantasies are generally attacked and nuked, a leading poll seems like shooting fish in a barrel. And no, Ripley, it doesn't mean I hate you. But I do wonder what legitimate reason you might have to ask.


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## Ernest Nagel (Jun 26, 2008)

To be very frank this skeeves me out so badly I don't know if it's healthy for me to stick around here any longer? No wonder so many BBW think FA's are creepy. Going away to think for awhile.  I am definitely NOT aroused by the misfortune, suffering or embarrassment of others. This poll, or more accurately the results thus far, makes me very sad.  And yeah, that's me being a judgmental asshat. Deal with it, delete it, I don't really GAF.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 26, 2008)

This poll reminds me of the question - "Do you still beat your wife?"

There is no right answer.


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## activistfatgirl (Jun 26, 2008)

Ernest Nagel said:


> To be very frank this skeeves me out so badly I don't know if it's healthy for me to stick around here any longer? No wonder so many BBW think FA's are creepy. Going away to think for awhile.  I am definitely NOT aroused by the misfortune, suffering or embarrassment of others. This poll, or more accurately the results thus far, makes me very sad.  And yeah, that's me being a judgmental asshat. Deal with it, delete it, I don't really GAF.



Well, good. We can yet again avoid having a place to talk about these aspects of FA sexuality in a manner where 1) bbws feel safe to hear it and 2) FAs feel safe to express it.
Maybe there's a bit of a judgmental way in which Ripley put it out there, but I know she was simply curious. Do what feels good for you, Ernest. If you don't feel comfortable with all the crazy FAs around, then fine. 
What I don't feel comfortable with is the snap-judgement and righteousness of both BBWs and FAs who don't have these fantasies. It must feel good to be so clean, so healthy, so not fucked up! :bow:

The rest of us will be killing kitties in your absence.


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## Wagimawr (Jun 26, 2008)

I'm going to have fun picking people to rep in this thread, I just know it.

I'm with AFG - let's let this play out and see where it goes; I have a suspicion we're not going to get valid results here, though. My first thought was that "disgusting" was a bad word choice, but based on the poll, it's simply another category of things that yes, some FAs are attracted to.

This IS the stuff that's lurking around the corner every time arguments about feederism, immobility, and horny FAs pop up; having a place to discuss it is NOT a bad thing, and I dearly hope this thread is NOT closed, as it's an issue that no longer needs to be hidden away.

Vote. It's anonymous; you don't have to tell anybody you voted, or you can find some kind of catharsis here - your decision.


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## Rojodi (Jun 26, 2008)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> This poll reminds me of the question - "Do you still beat your wife?"
> 
> There is no right answer.



Sorry, I don't beat my wife. I beat the eggs, and whip the cream 

Sorry, very bad PUNS! :doh:


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## lipmixgirl (Jun 26, 2008)

personally, i think that we are better off as a community for having the freedom of open expression and avenues of learning and understanding... ::hats off to conrad for allowing such:: 

i urge the dimmers reading and responding to this thread to not take responses personally... let personal judgement go... take the thread for what it is - an anonymous exploration of taboo sexual desire in a taboo subcultural safe space...

if you do not agree with the content of said thread, you have the power to click over to another screen and read something that you find suitable...

the big apple has spoken...
::exeunt:: :bow:


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## MisterGuy (Jun 26, 2008)

Webmaster said:


> I think there is a huge difference between "I AM aroused" and "I CAN BE aroused." Just about everyone can be aroused by things that are either politically incorrect, frowned upon, judged and so on. So a poll like this automatically raises red flags to me. I cannot see the outcome as anything other than, "Ewwww...!! Those slimy demented FAs are into THAT?!!? Gross. Humiliating. Cruel. Evil." Hence, given that FA fantasies are generally attacked and nuked, a leading poll seems like shooting fish in a barrel. And no, Ripley, it doesn't mean I hate you. But I do wonder what legitimate reason you might have to ask.



I don't know what personal motivation Ripley might have had in making this poll, but I think it's interesting nonetheless. I can see how threads like this might do no good for the FA cause in a public relations sense, but, well a couple quick points...

1) A vast number of non-FAs are into things like farting, sweating. incapacitation, you name it. It's not like this stuff is limited to our little community.

2) However, I think it's an unavoidable fact that FAness and feederism often comes with this kind of baggage, and I don't really see how it could come without it. I know everyone wants this stuff to be nicey-nice, and consensual and socialized, but the human sexual psyche is not a sociable creature and these lines get crossed pretty easily. I would imagine it's the same deal with other fetishes--i.e. the S&M board would have a good percentage of posters who admit to getting off on injuries caused during B&D and other posters who wish they'd shut up because it gives respectable S&Mists a bad name.

Anyway, in my view these threads are healthy and worthwhile, if possibly a little disturbing.


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## olwen (Jun 26, 2008)

activistfatgirl said:


> Well, good. We can yet again avoid having a place to talk about these aspects of FA sexuality in a manner where 1) bbws feel safe to hear it and 2) FAs feel safe to express it.
> Maybe there's a bit of a judgmental way in which Ripley put it out there, but I know she was simply curious. Do what feels good for you, Ernest. If you don't feel comfortable with all the crazy FAs around, then fine.
> What I don't feel comfortable with is the snap-judgement and righteousness of both BBWs and FAs who don't have these fantasies. It must feel good to be so clean, so healthy, so not fucked up! :bow:
> 
> The rest of us will be killing kitties in your absence.





Wagimawr said:


> I'm going to have fun picking people to rep in this thread, I just know it.
> 
> I'm with AFG - let's let this play out and see where it goes; I have a suspicion we're not going to get valid results here, though. My first thought was that "disgusting" was a bad word choice, but based on the poll, it's simply another category of things that yes, some FAs are attracted to.
> 
> ...





lipmixgirl said:


> personally, i think that we are better off as a community for having the freedom of open expression and avenues of learning and understanding... ::hats off to conrad for allowing such::
> 
> i urge the dimmers reading and responding to this thread to not take responses personally... let personal judgement go... take the thread for what it is - an anonymous exploration of taboo sexual desire in a taboo subcultural safe space...
> 
> ...



I agree with all of the above. These discussions I think are healthy. It's something we all have (stong) opinions about and that we've all thought about in one way or another. Why not talk about it - constructively. 

I think my stance on the matter is probably clear - each to his own.


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## imfree (Jun 26, 2008)

I, for one, am OK with this discussion. Yes, there
is a lot of potential for bad in this thread, but I
hope for some honest discussion. Seeing these 
issues in print and living some of them in reality 
has really helped me draw the line between 
fantasy and reality. The image of a 500 lb woman 
could be a pleasant fantasy for some, but could 
be a painful reality for a woman in such a body.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 26, 2008)

Ah but you made me laugh! 



Rojodi said:


> Sorry, I don't beat my wife. I beat the eggs, and whip the cream
> 
> Sorry, very bad PUNS! :doh:


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## bexy (Jun 26, 2008)

this thread will get obligatory sexual responses, stupid responses, trollish responses and OHMYGDZ I LVZ IT WN SHE SO FAT SHE DYE responses. BUT nevertheless, anyone who answers in an truthful and intelligent way should be praised for their honesty.

We are all aware that Fat Admiration on the whole is a broad spectrum and encompasses the love of the above mentioned as well as the more "normal" things.

Also lest not forget, you are aroused by what you are aroused by. You cannot choose it, it is an involuntary reaction. I would never judge for what turns an FA on, only if it was acted upon in a way that hurt themselves or others would I pass remark.


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## BeeBee (Jun 26, 2008)

Painful or disgusting, no... certain "negatives" are at least amusing to look at in light of my own size (about 350# now, she hovers berween 380-400) There are lots of things we cant do, or do together but we find ways around them, lol. We both get winded just walking but she does before me, and I can't explain why but I find that very sexy. She also has a fear of falling and not being able to get back up so I always hold her hand when we go anywhere with a less than perfect floor. It makes me feel needed when we do that, and I know it reassures her. Lots of other negatives but finding ways to get around them together is fun.


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## sunnie1653 (Jun 26, 2008)

Quite honestly.. if there are FA's out there that would get a kick out of anything listed in that poll.. it makes me grateful I've never met one. Discuss away, but... wow. The responses are shocking, to say the least.


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## olwen (Jun 26, 2008)

sunnie1653 said:


> Quite honestly.. if there are FA's out there that would get a kick out of anything listed in that poll.. it makes me grateful I've never met one. Discuss away, but... wow. The responses are shocking, to say the least.



For all the things you can't imagine to be sexy, or for all the things you don't know you can't imagine to be sexy, there is someone for whom it is.


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## bigirlover (Jun 26, 2008)

How is it that people are constantly offended? This pisses me off... It's just a poll, jeez


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## bigsexy920 (Jun 26, 2008)

About some of the most humiliating things a person can experience. It scares me - but if it makes you all feel SAFE to be able to talk about it go ahead. It just really scares the shit out of me.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 26, 2008)

wrestlingguy, I admire the frankness with which you expressed your feelings. Thank you for doing so ... I found what you had to say to be somewhat enlightening to me personally, although I am curious about one thing. You mentioned that you were turned on by watching your ex-girlfriend struggling to climb stairs, clean, etc. I am wondering if part of that excitement for you was derived by the fact that she was struggling, or by the experience of watching her do so. To put it another way (hopefully more clear), would you derive the same pleasure from watching a woman of equal proportion doing the same things ... the only difference being, she's happy and comfortable with her size and with the accommodations that she must make in order to get around? 

If you aren't comfortable with responding, I will understand. I am not judging you, I am truly just curious about this component of your attraction, and trying to understand it. And again, I do respect that you were willing to share as much as you already have, given the fact that such responses aren't always met with kitten 'n puppy dogs feedback.



wrestlingguy said:


> My only true experience with this involved a girl that I lived with for roughly 2 1/2 years.
> 
> Due to depression medication, she nearly doubled her weight (from about 145 when I met her to around 278 when she "moved out").
> 
> ...


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## canadianfeeder66 (Jun 26, 2008)

Back to the point of the poll, I do find breaking things and not fitting into clothing, doorways, etc quite sexy, as well as a woman being lazy and out of shape. But, I only find this attractive when the aforementioned woman does as well. Happiness is the top priority, and I take no pleasure in anyone's suffering. If they get turned on by their own laziness, sweet. If not, no problem. Personality is more important to me than that.
(Hazaa! I think I covered all the bases to prove I'm not a total monster)


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## Ruby Ripples (Jun 26, 2008)

Ripley, since when has farting been a disgusting issue of size? Really. Or hygeine "issues"? Aren't there as many skinny people who fart and don't wash, as there are fat people? 

Farting isnt disgusting, its a natural occurence, and there are people turned on by everything. I find your use of the word disgusting to be strange, and don't feel it's helpful at all. All it does is stamp your opinion on your own made up poll. 

I see some people here being disgusted, offended and apparently "scared" of the fact that people are turned on by the things in this poll. Consider this - your next partner might be turned on by all of those things, but you'll never know, specially if you show that attitude. Why would anyone be scared or disgusted or offended by the thought that another person is turned on by any of the things in the poll? If someone gets aroused by hearing/smelling a big rattly fart, or by thinking of a woman so big she struggles walking, will it hurt you? Will they infect you with some disease? Does it mean they aren't a wonderful person, kind and generous, and considerate? 

We're not talking here about taking a person and stuffing them til theyre immobile in reality, then poking them to make them fart, all for sexual gratification. We are talking about turn-ons and/or fantasy. I'd bet my life that some of the most outraged here, have a fantasy that they'd NEVER admit to, to anyone. 



I admire the people here who have contributed to the poll honestly.


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## Tooz (Jun 26, 2008)

I've run across fart porn featuring skinny people.


At this time I must note I was NOT looking for it. It found me.


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## Tad (Jun 26, 2008)

bexylicious said:


> Also lest not forget, you are aroused by what you are aroused by. You cannot choose it, it is an involuntary reaction. I would never judge for what turns an FA on, only if it was acted upon in a way that hurt themselves or others would I pass remark.



I want to second what Bexy said, and add that it is entirely possible to be turned on by something at one level, but still to discourage it and even seek to avoid it. 

Im going to use an example from personal experience, not because Im so great or my experience is such a great illustration, but just because it is the one thing that I can know absolutely. When my wife was at her heaviest she would be breathing fairly heavily after a couple of flights of stairs, and was probably noticeably slowing down on the last half flight. It turned me on, serving both as evidence of how much heavier she had gotten over the years, and as a non-visual evidence of how fat she was (multi-sensory input = good!). But I knew that was not something she wanted, nor did I really want her to have a harder time getting around. So it would be a turn-on when it happened, but at the same time it would make me concerned, and helped reinforce that I needed to really support her in lifestyle changes that would help her get to a place where she was happier and better able to zip around.

Does it still appeal as a fantasy? Yes, most certainly. Ive certainly imagined sometimes what it would be like if shed gained thirty more pounds from that point instead of losing them, and part of the appeal is imagining a little bit of waddle entering her walk, struggling more with stairs, and so on. Do I actually want that to happen? No, definitely not. (For what it is worth, I also fantasize about being 100 pounds heavier and really struggling with getting around myself. Also something Im choosing not to pursue in reality. But if I did choose to do so, and if my wife enjoyed witnessing those struggles (she wouldnt, but for the sake of argument), would that be wrong of her, when it was something Id chosen for myself? I think that is a harder question).

Moving away from FA issues, I think a lot of people, or at the least a lot of guys, have a lot of desires or fantasies which they realize should stay in their head. Some of the stuff that has come out from friends over the years, and even relatives and co-workers that Im not so close with, is kind of frightening in some waysare we all perverts with almost criminal desires, different from the Marquis de Sade mostly in the nature of our desires but not in the grotesque scale to which they can run? On the other hand it is kind of heartening, because so far as I know, none of these guys have let their less pleasant desires and fantasies run amuck.

Which, if you look at it another way, is not so different from a lot of being human. I want that shirt, I dont want to pay for it, but that doesnt mean I try and steal it. Im in a strange-to-me city for probably the only time in my life, but when I get to the airport I still tip the cabbie. I dont tell that person on the bus what I think of them. And like all of that, I like to see a woman struggle under her weight, but I dont want anyone to have to struggle to get around, and I dont encourage it.

I will say though that I do get nervous sometimes about guys who show up here looking for support for some specific fantasy. I think sometimes they are trying to convince themselves that it is OK to pursue it, even when they know better. I often think that driving them away just encourages them to try again elsewhere, while trying to explain why it is not OK might help them improve the completeness of their moral map. Maybe a vain hope, but it seems like it is worth trying. And do we owe any less to ourselves, to try and understand these issues and better understand how to deal with these desires?


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## LJ Rock (Jun 26, 2008)

I'm just wondering why it has to be about something "painful or disgusting." 

Firstly, I agree with the point made earlier that just because a person can or could be turned on by something, it doesn't necessarily mean that they always are or always will be. I suppose its possible for a human being to sexualize any situation or circumstance at any given time. That doesn't necessarily make one a pervert or sexual deviant. 

Secondly, I feel like part of the fat admiration/fat acceptance thing is looking beyond the "negatives" of fat and appreciating the beautiful things about it. To be sure, a person's weight is going to have an effect on the way they live and carry themselves, such as the way they walk, the way clothes fit them, the way they "fit" into the environment around them. 

Without going into the psychology of what makes a person become aroused by things that are painful and or humiliating, lets for the record state that such things are not relegated to FAs by any means. In fact I would say that there is much more of the sadomasochistic stuff evidenced in regular or "mainstream" erotica than there is in our little world here. Being an "FA," a _fat admirer _ is just that... it is the admiration of fat and all the things that go along with it. 

The _Fantasy to Concern_ thread got me to thinking about a post I made quite a few years ago, in which I was reminiscing about a girl I knew in college, who in four short years of school went from being a very curvy and voluptuous young lady to being so plump and round she had a tough time walking across campus without having to stop and rest. Now as sad as it might be for some of us to think of someone so young dealing with a mobility issue of sorts, I have to confess that I was very attracted to this woman... not only for the way she looked (the fact that she was a confident and sexy bbw who continued to dress in mini skirts and low-cut tops as her weight escalated certainly did a lot to catch my eye!) but also the way that she walked. She had a pronounced "waddle" her ample curves bouncing sensuously with each step. 

My thought process was *never* "Wow, look how much she is _struggling!_ She's in so much pain, thats hot!" In fact you would never have thought those things to look at her, because she always seemed to have a smile on her face when I saw her, like she was just loving life. My thoughts when I looked at her was "Man, she sure is _sexy_ and _gorgeous_, and I sure love the way she moves." Her walk was a part of being as fat as she was, it was a part of who she was.... and she was beautiful. 

Likewise, I'd never be so arrogant and self-centered as to say "Please don't lose weight. Stay fat and get fatter, because I really like it and I like the way you walk." Because I am just barely smart enough to realize that it has _nothing _ to do with _me_... _it's all about the woman! _ Or in other words, the one whom I am admiring. 

Other things like tight fitting clothes, squeezing through tight passages, or bumping into people and things because of your size are just some of the realities of being fat. They can be considered (thought not mutually or exclusively) arousing as an indicator of how fat a person really is, and not as something that is painful or humiliating. 

As a matter of fact, one might even say that feederism/foodeeism has more to do with the love and admiration of fat and the food that allows one to be fat than it does with humiliation or control as many negators of such would contend. I suppose it all depends on the perspectives of the individuals involved in said behavior.... food for thought anyhow. 

Of course like anything, these thoughts and attractions can be taken to extremes. The debate over whats a "healthy" sexual fantasy and an "unhealthy" one is one that we will never truly come to consensus on here. And again, the psychology behind arousal by means of inflicting pain, humiliation or certain bodily functions (farts, scat etc) is something that runs deeper than fat admiration and should not be associated with fat admiration in any capacity. 

In closing, no one can deny that there are negatives involved with weight and weight gain, particularly as we age. That young woman from my University days who so beautifully and elegantly carried her weight around in her early twenties may very well be suffering from back and knee problems (or worse, God forbid) now that we are a decade-plus removed from college; a thought which should give no caring, sensible or otherwise humane individual any pleasure. Or who knows, perhaps she managed to get her weight under control enough to be able to retain her mobility and live a healthy and fully-functional life... there's no reason to think that she wouldn't. (I'm afraid I might never know for sure as I have no idea where she is today.) In any case, it all comes down to the way you choose to live your life. You can be trim and slim, fat and happy or anywhere in between in this life, and let's stop burning each other at the steak for having love for any and all who fall under any of these categories.


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## bexy (Jun 26, 2008)

Tooz said:


> I've run across fart porn featuring skinny people.
> 
> 
> At this time I must note I was NOT looking for it. It found me.



how the HELL did that happen lol!


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## Suze (Jun 26, 2008)

Tooz said:


> I've run across fart porn featuring skinny people.
> 
> 
> At this time I must note I was NOT looking for it. It found me.



Well, *I* run across poop porn involving 2 skinny lesbians. The disturbing part is that it was NOT accidental.


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## Risible (Jun 26, 2008)

I find it arousing to watch my husband as he struggles, sweating and out of breath, while he's working away at some physical task (including making love to me, k). Certainly he's in better shape than me, and it takes much less physically for me to begin sweating and breathing heavily ... but why does anyone need to label this arousal as something negative, painful or disgusting?

Arousal ... it's a body's physical response to stimuli. It's natural. If you're (the general you) squeamish about what turns somebody else on, then you should look to your own self for answers to what's wrong with that.

In light of the judgmental tone of the title of this thread, and of several subsequent posts, I, too, applaud those who've answered with candor.


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## bexy (Jun 26, 2008)

susieQ said:


> Well, *I* run across poop porn involving 2 skinny lesbians. The disturbing part is that it was NOT accidental



would that be the one EVERYONES attention was drawn to in the lounge not too long ago, that has burned my corneas forever??


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## Suze (Jun 26, 2008)

bexylicious said:


> would that be the one EVERYONES attention was drawn to in the lounge not too long ago, that has burned my corneas forever??



yes, that was mainly my fault. 

i think someone even made a support group thread :blink:


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## jdinmi (Jun 26, 2008)

I might be taking the original question in a somewhat different direction, but while I wouldn't say I was or am attracted to humiliating things happen to my girlfriend or watching her struggle with things, I was and am definitely attracted to her response to them. We work at the same place, and one day a coworker was giving her a hard time about her weight, and while it was an embarrassing situation, especially since other people were around, she handled it so well that I realized I was attracted to her. And then after that I would notice how she handled embarrassing things like people giving her crap or not being able to fit well somewhere, or how she did things that were physically hard for her, and I was (and still am) turned on in a way by handled them.


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## bexy (Jun 26, 2008)

jdinmi said:


> I might be taking the original question in a somewhat different direction, but while I wouldn't say I was or am attracted to humiliating things happen to my girlfriend or watching her struggle with things, I was and am definitely attracted to her response to them. We work at the same place, and one day a coworker was giving her a hard time about her weight, and while it was an embarrassing situation, especially since other people were around, she handled it so well that I realized I was attracted to her. And then after that I would notice how she handled embarrassing things like people giving her crap or not being able to fit well somewhere, or how she did things that were physically hard for her, and I was (and still am) turned on in a way by handled them.



thats quite nice actually. seems like what you are saying is you are attracted to your girlfriend's gusto, strength, determination and spunk.


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## bigsexy920 (Jun 26, 2008)

These are wonderful reasons to be attracted to a woman. 



jdinmi said:


> I might be taking the original question in a somewhat different direction, but while I wouldn't say I was or am attracted to humiliating things happen to my girlfriend or watching her struggle with things, I was and am definitely attracted to her response to them. We work at the same place, and one day a coworker was giving her a hard time about her weight, and while it was an embarrassing situation, especially since other people were around, she handled it so well that I realized I was attracted to her. And then after that I would notice how she handled embarrassing things like people giving her crap or not being able to fit well somewhere, or how she did things that were physically hard for her, and I was (and still am) turned on in a way by handled them.


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## largenlovely (Jun 26, 2008)

I think this can be a good thread as long as we remember that we may not hear answers we like and that's OK lol

Being that i have a website, i get tons of requests for things of this nature. Men want to hear how life has changed as a result of having gained weight and what have you. A large number of them are turned on by things that i used to do but am no longer able to do. Things i used to be able to fit into and am no longer able to fit ..such as clothes, doors and such. Also that i now waddle and am out of breath with ordinary activities. I've probably heard it all lol


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## Wagimawr (Jun 26, 2008)

Okay, so using the category names "negative", "painful" and "disgusting" may have been a mistake; I'm not about to beat Ripley up for it - it keeps the poll options reasonably brief; that's not the POINT, how we refer to them, the point of this poll is to find out how many are turned on by such things (and not that you HAVE to be turned on by them EVERY time, as some of the first posters felt the need to point out, but that you are or are not turned on by them; it's a yes or no question!).

I'm frankly a little disturbed by all the accusation; this is merely an opportunity to learn something about the populace here. If that turns you off, that's nobody's business but yours.


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## flatyla (Jun 26, 2008)

I think that all of these are OK within the right environment...ie it's CONSENSUAL and the girl is happy (and gets a sexual kick out of it.)

My girl has put on some weight lately (OK, alot) and I admit I get off on her being lazy and gluttonous. When I actually tell her she's lazy, she replies "Well, I LOVE it." and asks me to get her some chocolate from the kitchen.

In this case, laziness is OK. It's the same as the force feeding dilemma- if the girl wants you to, then it's OK (then it's not actually force feeding, but hey  )

None of this creepy murderous killer feeder stuff the tabloids try portray us as!

Regards
Tyla


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## LJ Rock (Jun 26, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


> Okay, so using the category names "negative", "painful" and "disgusting" may have been a mistake; I'm not about to beat Ripley up for it - it keeps the poll options reasonably brief; that's not the POINT, how we refer to them, the point of this poll is to find out how many are turned on by such things (and not that you HAVE to be turned on by them EVERY time, as some of the first posters felt the need to point out, but that you are or are not turned on by them; it's a yes or no question!).
> 
> I'm frankly a little disturbed by all the accusation; this is merely an opportunity to learn something about the populace here. If that turns you off, that's nobody's business but yours.



I don't think anyone's really beating anyone up here... things have remained pretty civil in this thread thus far. The _Fantasy to Concern_ thread seemed to be getting a bit hostile, which is probably why I opted to post here rather than there. In any case, it seems like people are just being open and honest with their responses without being overly accusatory. 

I agree that it's good to have a dialog about such things, bearing in mind that the questions posed in the poll at hand only give a _partial_ picture to what attracts people to these varying aspects of fat admiration. And yes, I think the inclusion of words like _negative_ and _painful_ make an assumption into the reasons why someone might be aroused by certain things; as if the only reason someone might get turned on by some sweating or heavy breathing is because they enjoy watching someone _suffer_. lol

But whatever.... good thread, good talk.


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## Duniwin (Jun 26, 2008)

I am aroused by BBWs struggling with physical activity and being out of breath and sweating on a few different levels for a few different reasons.

Part of it is as TraciJo67 suggested that I enjoy observing the movements of a fat woman, especially a confident fat woman. The physics of fat movement fascinate me. Observing the kinetics of fat, whether it is squeezing though a tight space, waddling, or bouncing, is arousing for me.

As for being out of breath / sweaty, first of all these help indicate to me in a "mulit-sensory" way (thanks Ed) that my partner is fat. The look of a fat feminine form arouses me, the feel of the fat arouses me, the movement of it, the sight and feel of sweat of exertion on a neck or brow, the sound of fat slapping against fat, the sound of heavy footfalls, the sound of labored breathing from exertion, and the feel / sound or a large body getting into bed beside me. All these do two things: remind me that my partner is fat and arouse me.

Ok, three things. The other reason I find a fat girl who is sweaty & out of breath from non-sexual physical activity attractive and arousing is that it reminds me of sexual physical activity. Sometimes it reminds me in an intellectual way, but more often it reminds me in a very primal way. As Risible mentioned, this kind of sweaty exertion it damn sexy.

On a less related note, but still on topic, I'd like to mention that I used to find the idea of immobility or near immobility a turn on. It's much less of an impetus now, but the idea of having a woman while lie around lazily while I dote on her and wait on her (bringing her food, more blankets, the newspaper, heck anything) is something that is very arousing for me. I suspect this is partially a feeder tendency, but also partially arousal in the laziness in itself, and partially a desire to be a "manly provider." To be clear, this laziness gets less arousing after a while, but it is fun for a time if both parties play along.

I hope I don't offend anyone with this post, I am merely voicing my own personal response to the poll. I don't mean to imply that the posters I referenced share my views completely, simply that they said things with which I agreed.


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## missy_blue_eyez (Jun 26, 2008)

First off.....good thread Ripley! I am always really interested in this kind of stuff, the mind of the FA absolutely astounds me, I love learning all this stuff...... am so intrigued to actually read some real answers to the actual poll instead of people sweating the small stuff about descriptive words!!!! 

Im sure Ripley used the phrases 'disgusting' 'Painful' and 'negative' because, lets be honest guys, in the society that we live in they are deemed exactly as those things.......farting, burping etc are deemed as taboo's for a reason......yes we all do it, but in light of using them for sexual gratification they are taboo, hence the markers in which Ripley has used. I also reckon (please dont anybody get offended if Im wrong) that in terms of the FA visual to those kinds of things, thats how they would come across, its kinda like the pleasure pain theory isnt it.....we like them, but we shouldn't like them.

LOL, I know what I mean anyway, but again, good thread, Im jus looking forward to reading some real insight...... Wrestling Guy, loved your post, I experienced something like this quite recently.

I met up with a guy (whom is an FA) recently.....id jus got back from my holiday with a really bad cold and cough. I got to his and you have to walk up about 4 flights of stairs until you get to his place. By the time Id got to the top, I was puffing and panting and really struggling to breath, it happens usually anyway but this time it was really bad because of the cold. Later on in the evening he admitted to me how sexy he thought that was, knowing that Id struggled with those stairs.....I just giggled and thought it was really funny, and then proceeded to tell him about how Id broken my bed a couple of days before....its amazing how with an FA these kind of things are pillow talk, when to a normal guy he'd be running out the room screaming! lol 

That is all


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## Dr. P Marshall (Jun 26, 2008)

Webmaster said:


> I cannot see the outcome as anything other than, "Ewwww...!! Those slimy demented FAs are into THAT?!!? Gross. Humiliating. Cruel. Evil." Hence, given that FA fantasies are generally attacked and nuked, a leading poll seems like shooting fish in a barrel. And no, Ripley, it doesn't mean I hate you. But I do wonder what legitimate reason you might have to ask.



You know, it's funny, normally I would hate to see a poll like this. I'm one of those FAs who sees something that could put the whole issue in a possibly negative light and I usually go off and spend yet more time worrying about how big of a monster I am. BUT, for some reason, I'm actually kind of glad to see it here. First because it quantifies things and it is a poll so not everyone will have to post to be represented and it does get the issue out on the table. Also, it makes me feel a little better to see what things the other FAs are attracted to as well. I do feel the title of the poll was judgmental, but I actually think that's one of the things that needs to be addressed more in this community in general. There is often a disconnect between the way FAs see what attracts them and how BBW and BHM feel about the same issues. I think a lot of FAs are aware of this. I think it's where a lot of the guilt comes from. It's the reason WE use the word monster to describe ourselves more than the BBW/BHM ever would. But I also think a lot of the BBW/BHM don't understand that for a lot of FAs there are differences between fantasy and reality and between reality and what you would actually do in a certain situation especially with someone you care about. As painful as this discussion may end up, hopefully people will be respectful and we may actually get some of our collective demons as a community dealt with. I hope people take it in that light. I think it could help if that is the case.


Wagimawr said:


> This IS the stuff that's lurking around the corner every time arguments about feederism, immobility, and horny FAs pop up; having a place to discuss it is NOT a bad thing, and I dearly hope this thread is NOT closed, as it's an issue that no longer needs to be hidden away.



I couldn't agree more. I think this needs to get out in the open more. Not so us FAs can feel "safe" but so that there can be some more understanding on all sides.



bexylicious said:


> Also lest not forget, you are aroused by what you are aroused by. You cannot choose it, it is an involuntary reaction. I would never judge for what turns an FA on, only if it was acted upon in a way that hurt themselves or others would I pass remark.



Absolutely. I'm a woman and I can say even I can physically tell the difference between something I find attractive visually and something I find arousing visually. And believe me, some of the stuff I find arousing, I really wish I didn't but there is nothing intellectual about the process when it happens. What I choose to do with that information sent to my brain is what makes the difference to me. 



wrestlingguy said:


> My only true experience with this involved a girl that I lived with for roughly 2 1/2 years...



I think wrestlingguy has done a great service to this thread by replying so early with such honesty. Thank you.:bow: As we know, the first few posts can make or break a thread. And I also think there's a lot to be learned from WG and edx's responses. These two are, from what I know of them on the boards, two of the undisputed good guys. Kind, thoughtful, gentlemen and sincerely dedicated to BBW causes and concerns, to making better FAs and to size acceptance. So, if these two can admit to having turn ons that fall on this list, maybe the answer isn't that all FAs are creepy or scary. Maybe the answer is that fantasy and arousal shouldn't be considered so frightening. There really is a difference, as both men's stories indicate, in what you think versus what you do about it. They made different choices in different situations and one is attracted more to the emotional struggle while one is not(I think I understood that right WG, my apologies if I didn't) but the point is, both made decisions that ultimately were about their concern for their partner as a person. WG can't change that he found the loss of control sexy, but he NEVER mentioned wanting to manipulate or control her to stay a way she didn't want to be. I can understand people's concern on reading a story like his, but if you take a deep breath and read it carefully, there is actually no cruelty there. He didn't say he turned around and sought out another relationship exactly like it, he admitted he struggled with his attraction and so did she and that ultimately it ended the relationship. There's pain there, but no cruelty. At least that's how I see it. The truth is it happened to her and he was there and he can't change or help what his reaction was to the circumstances. It just is what it is. In my opinion, it doesn't make him a bad person. What would do that was trying to always put someone in that position or ONLY enjoying the struggle and never once thinking about her. I got the impression he was concerned for her(he said he consoled her), he just couldn't change the actual reaction he had. There can be a disconnect between your sexual brain and your human, thinking brain. There really can be. I doubt she mattered less to him as a person all of a sudden. And as for edx, he went against his own arousal and chose in favor of his wife's happiness. Isn't that all you could ever ask for from any partner about anything? That they value your happiness, no matter what may be going through their brain sometimes. It seems unfair to hold everyone's thoughts and fantasies against them if they are actually in reality wonderful partners. It doesn't mean some dark desire is lurking waiting for the moment when the FA can "strike." Our fantasies are our fantasies. Lots of people have fantasies from time to time involving people who aren't their partner, but that doesn't make them adulterers if they still stay monogamous and enjoy their life and sex life with their actual partner. An FA can have desires or fantasies that they would never act on and that they may never want to. I know I have fantasies I would never want to see happen in reality to someone I cared about. Which brings me to this and my actual answer: 



TraciJo67 said:


> To put it another way (hopefully more clear), would you derive the same pleasure from watching a woman of equal proportion doing the same things ... the only difference being, she's happy and comfortable with her size and with the accommodations that she must make in order to get around?



For me personally, the line you're describing is my boundary. I may find something exciting as a fantasy, but wouldn't want to see it in reality. Or I may enjoy seeing something in reality if it's there (say a big man getting out of car) but either the arousal ends if I see the look of frustration on his face, or more importantly, I might not want to see someone I cared about and knew reach that state themselves. Does that make sense? It doesn't mean I totally dehumanize the fat man I see randomly in the parking lot, but it does mean I just see him and move on, the way any woman might check out a hot guy and then get on with her day. But if I was with someone who was struggling and frustrated, that would not turn me on. Although, I do not think that makes me a better person than someone who does get turned on by the struggle itself. I'm sure they can't control it. And I only learned my own boundaries from personal experiences. But for me, it's the actual physical movement of a large person doing certain things, it's not the struggle itself (emotionally or in terms of discomfort and things) that I find arousing, it's purely the visual. Also, I find men attractive over at least a 250 pound weight range and that covers everything from smallish BHM to super size and the truth is, I am attracted to different things depending on the man's size. And I do not find one more or less attractive than the other. I would never want, let's say, a 280 pound man to get bigger so that he would waddle for me. In fact, I personally(and this is not judging, I'm just explaining my personal thoughts as an FA) would not be very comfortable in a feeder/feedee/gainer relationship because I don't like the idea of a partner changing to please me even if it is only in the implied way that feederism has. I do find feederism exciting, but my personal comfort level would keep me from entering an honest to God feeder/feedee relationship. It's one thing if a partner gains weight because they like to eat, but the idea of me somehow being part of it doesn't make me comfortable. But I can understand that there are others who feel differently and I don't think for a minute that they are monsters. As long as it is what both partners want then I don't see the problem, as long as they stop once someone doesn't want it any more. Again, boundaries. 

But I think in terms of this board, it is good to be able to discuss fantasy without being attacked all the time. I know a lot of people get angry when FAs say things like I'm about to say, but this is not in any way trying to compare anyone's struggles or pain. But the truth is, some of us are dealing with these issues all the time, or went through periods where we had to. We sometimes feel like monsters. This is not the easiest way to feel about yourself. It's not. This is not to say, "poor FAs" and I know there are unrepentant horndogs, but there are sensitive FAs and normal, caring, loving people who are FAs and maybe get turned on when someone gets winded. That doesn't change any of those other aspects of them. They aren't suddenly less loving, or caring, although apparently many would say they are less normal once they admit to their fantasy. I guess I'm just trying to say that an FA can be a good person and someone who would be great to be in a relationship with even if their fantasies or turn ons aren't always exactly what the fat people feel comfortable with. But it doesn't mean we're all secretly getting off on your pain or that if one of us does he/she doesn't feel bad about it. Again, these are the issues that I think are at the heart of a lot of FA guilt even among those who don't like any of the things listed in this poll. Because let's face it with society's negative attitude to fat, there's a certain emotional struggle involved for a lot of fat people just about being fat. Or there was at some point in most fat people's lives. Yet, finding fat people attractive in general isn't seen as monstrous here, so why should some of the things on that list make a person out of hand a monster. And I DO understand being upset by someone who does enjoy the humiliation aspect, but once again, is it something they seek out or something they wish they could change about themselves too? I can't answer for FAs like that, but I would guess if it's someone who wishes they could change it about themselves but can't, well, I'm guessing being in a relationship with that person would feel no different than being in a relationship with me or anyone else who doesn't find that appealing. Many people, male and female are able to make decisions and distinctions about their behavior. Many people would never choose their fantasy over a partner's happiness. I know there are FAs who just care about getting off, but their fantasies are often shared by the FAs who are interested in real relationships too. And I think if everyone is discussing FANTASY it shouldn't suddenly make it seem that even the good guys are monsters because they admit to liking certain things sexually that may seem odd or scary to some. Many of us are very human and pretty decent as people and we're not all ticking time bombs of depraved perversity waiting to undo the fat people who cross our paths. I know that's not what anyone here is trying to say, but to FA ears, that is often what it sounds like. I know, we say things that make the fat people feel less than human too sometimes, so, again, not looking for sympathy, just trying to be honest for the sake of mutual understanding. And since I'm a chick FA and can express my feelings more openly I thought I'd try to explain how it can feel from the other side sometimes. OK, another overly long post and I hope it made sense.


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## furious styles (Jun 26, 2008)

LJ Rock said:


> amazing post.





Dr. P Marshall said:


> also amazing post.



These two have said everything everything I possibly would on the subject so though I could bust out a novel-sized write up, it wouldn't really be worth it. Seriously read those posts. That's honest to god FAism, and not from a heartless shitbag point of view.

I was worried about this thread. Dimensions has become a land of rifts recently (and maybe not so recently). It's the fat men vs. the skinny guys, it's the BBW against the FAs, it's _everyone_ in hyde park, all I really see is strife. I feared that, as usual, a thread of this seriousness would only work to drive another axe into our forum community. But I'm beginning to think I was wrong, I'm seeing some great posts, and possible even some *gasp* understanding.


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## Elfcat (Jun 26, 2008)

Tight squeezes were listed as embarrassing, so I voted on that one, though I think whether or to what degree someone is embarrassed about anything is a personality call.

I could well have voted on the struggling points, out of breath and sweating, because frankly, this isn't something necessarily peculiar to FAs. Athletes and bodybuilders sweat and breath heavily while doing their sports, and I can see why there's a turn on to that - because these are the manifestations of a body which engages in a challenge, a test of its personal best. Well, for someone who weighs 600 pounds, maybe getting up a couple flights of stairs in one shot is their personal best, and watching their expressions of struggle and determination and the exhausted joy when the objective is met certainly can be an inspiring thing.

For people of any size, there is an erotic aspect of suspense. A challenge is raised. Will the actor prevail, walk the desired distance, negotiate the narrow points? We all know the psychology of the cliffhanger. I think most of these items speak to that. We all are curious about our bodily capabilities. Even the squashing thing (which I guess I could partially claim for myself having a liking for woman-on-top positions but not so much for face-sitting [I likes to see my gal bounce!]) seems to be partly a matter of an FA testing his or her endurance.

I think the only item mentioned that goes against that is total immobility, that would seem to me to be more of a surrender and giving up dynamic. I suppose to some that is a turn on as well, just not to me so much, to me the tight squeeze thing is more of a temporary challenge to be surmounted.

But certainly I've been to places and seen people fricken bound in leather cords, even in plastic wrap, they get off on feeling like The Mummy I guess. So immobility isn't peculiar to FAs either.

Negative and disgusting, I think, are also subjective and personality calls. I know what I think is disgusting about people, it usually has nothing to do with physical things, and I'd think with anyone what disgusts them would be pretty much a buzz kill. I mean, I know, there are doms who will do this "You DISGUST Me" line of talk, but I take that to be more of a role-playing tactic for subs who get off on being humiliated.

Then again, I don't know if I can speak much for doms. Political animals like me tend to be beings of extreme resistance, which not all doms handle very well to say the least. Resistance. I suppose there's a concept which might apply as well, to exercise, to heavy breathing and sweating, to tight squeezes. A challenge of course only exists when an objective interacts with resistance, and the question is in play of which will prevail.


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## Gateway (Jun 26, 2008)

Embarrassing aspects are cute, but it can seriously wrong sometimes. For example, say a BBW pops a button off a pair of jeans or something, generally you'll see some blushing and a little bit of joking around about it if in company, but what if they take it badly? I have seen a woman _cry_ over this once, and I felt seriously bad for enjoying the button popping.

Being an FA is hard sometimes.


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## Totmacher (Jun 26, 2008)

This should probably go on the random confessions thread, but I think it's really cute when a girl confides in me she's recently been mistaken as pregnant :wubu: . The rest of the stuff I could leave, but that's just me. Maybe we should get a flag so the squeamish can kepe their sensibilities intact? Rants follow.



Ernest Nagel said:


> To be very frank this skeeves me out so badly I don't know if it's healthy for me to stick around here any longer? No wonder so many BBW think FA's are creepy. Going away to think for awhile.  I am definitely NOT aroused by the misfortune, suffering or embarrassment of others. This poll, or more accurately the results thus far, makes me very sad.  And yeah, that's me being a judgmental asshat. Deal with it, delete it, I don't really GAF.


Ernest, your post makes me sad. Way to let 87 people ruin it for the entire community. Then again, if you're the kind of person who believes his/her opinions on sensitive issues are axioms and runs away finger-in-ear when such an issue comes up... This really _should not_ be the place for you. 



Sandie_Zitkus said:


> This poll reminds me of the question - "Do you still beat your wife?"
> 
> There is no right answer.



I interpret the poll as being much deeper than that. These are mostly accessory fetishes being discussed. Things regularly observed outside of the FA community. Sure they might be embarrassing to admit, but, at the same time, it might be nice to for someone out there to know he/she isn't alone. I think you're confusing, "turned on by" with, " actively seeking to affect". If you're not one of them, you'd be surprised how many perfectly healthy people fantasize about things that are, in reality, impractical, immoral, unpleasant, and/or impossible. 



lipmixgirl said:


> personally, i think that we are better off as a community for having the freedom of open expression and avenues of learning and understanding... ::hats off to conrad for allowing such::
> 
> i urge the dimmers reading and responding to this thread to not take responses personally... let personal judgement go... take the thread for what it is - an anonymous exploration of taboo sexual desire in a taboo subcultural safe space...
> 
> ...



Y'know, that's the _Plural_ of exit. I wish people here could be anywhere near as mature as you're suggesting. *sigh*


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## wrestlingguy (Jun 26, 2008)

Dr. P, props for understanding the underlying theme in what I was saying. Truth be known, it was her weight gain that brought me to Dimensions. Ten years ago I was a newbie, and as excited as many of the guys that venture here today.

The one constant here was that I really cared about this girl, and her physical and emotional well being were important to me. Although I lost the relationship, and the sexual roller coaster that went along with it, I knew she needed to move on to keep her sanity, and I ended up being the focal point for the aggressive behavior she exhibited, the result of years of rape and prostitution that she was forced into years before she met me.

No, I never attempted to re-create the same thing with the other girls I was involved with (mostly from Dimensions). I think it's important to let each relationship stand on its own, as you may find something emotionally or sexually appealing that you might have missed if you try to make that relationship something that its not.

Now, I'd be lying if I didn't say that there are guys out there still trying to make the square peg fit the round hole (forcing women to do various acts solely for their sexual pleasure). I think we can all agree that in and of itself is wrong.

While none of the activities in the poll really get my juices flowing these days, I have to tell you that being in a commited relationship allows one to do things under the endorsement of love, and suddenly some of these "disgusting" things become okay between the two involved.

Carla may not want me to mention this, but she doesn't mind when I share something for everyone's benefit, so here goes. When we first met, she had a fear of face sitting and squishing, her fear being that she would hurt her "partner". As her LOVER, I made her feel comfortable with herself in doing it, and she now finds it very sexually charged. I would venture to say that if our marriage ever ended, she would prefer to have this in her next relationship, as her view of this has changed over the years, because it was done with love.

I knew this thread could be very interesting, and I'm glad it hasn't really taken an ugly turn..................yet. I applaud Mister Guy for his candor as well, and think we can all learn from this.


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## ripley (Jun 26, 2008)

Webmaster said:


> I think there is a huge difference between "I AM aroused" and "I CAN BE aroused." Just about everyone can be aroused by things that are either politically incorrect, frowned upon, judged and so on. So a poll like this automatically raises red flags to me. I cannot see the outcome as anything other than, "Ewwww...!! Those slimy demented FAs are into THAT?!!? Gross. Humiliating. Cruel. Evil." Hence, given that FA fantasies are generally attacked and nuked, a leading poll seems like shooting fish in a barrel. And no, Ripley, it doesn't mean I hate you. But I do wonder what legitimate reason you might have to ask.




I'm aware that you dislike me, and that's okay. 

I put this poll in the Erotic Weight Gain subforum so the mods could make sure there was no abuse to people who chose to post, and made the poll itself anonymous so people who were shy could still answer.

As to the reason I asked...a great part of it was curiosity. Another part is that I get approached by a lot of FAs, and I'd like to understand them better. Another reason is that I think the "Fantasy to concern" thread was derailed from a valid discussion of some of the less-lovely aspects of the very fat.





Ruby Ripples said:


> Ripley, since when has farting been a disgusting issue of size? Really. Or hygeine "issues"? Aren't there as many skinny people who fart and don't wash, as there are fat people?
> 
> Farting isnt disgusting, its a natural occurence, and there are people turned on by everything. I find your use of the word disgusting to be strange, and don't feel it's helpful at all. All it does is stamp your opinion on your own made up poll.
> 
> ...




Farting and hygiene issues are not the sole venue of fat people, but I am asking in _regards_ to fat people. See the difference?

As for my word choices...as I was making this poll I was talking to a friend of mine who is a feeder (*waves to him*  ) and he expressed concern over my word choices. I decided to keep them that way for brevity and also because I couldn't find another way to categorize and still be as clear as I wanted to be.

Yes, I agree that my own "stamp" is on this poll. But I made it, and I'm okay with that. I do think that not being able to walk far or well IS a negative of large size. I should know, eh?  I do think farts are kinda disgusting. That's not to say that I run screaming down the street rending my garments after someone lets one rip. I have, in fact, been known to fart myself (shocking as that may be ).

I don't know if your use of the word "outraged" was meant for me, but I am not/was not "outraged" and that was not why I made this poll.




Risible said:


> I find it arousing to watch my husband as he struggles, sweating and out of breath, while he's working away at some physical task (including making love to me, k). Certainly he's in better shape than me, and it takes much less physically for me to begin sweating and breathing heavily ... but why does anyone need to label this arousal as something negative, painful or disgusting?
> 
> Arousal ... it's a body's physical response to stimuli. It's natural. If you're (the general you) squeamish about what turns somebody else on, then you should look to your own self for answers to what's wrong with that.
> 
> In light of the judgmental tone of the title of this thread, and of several subsequent posts, I, too, applaud those who've answered with candor.



I'm sorry that you felt this was judgmental. 




missy_blue_eyez said:


> First off.....good thread Ripley! I am always really interested in this kind of stuff, the mind of the FA absolutely astounds me, I love learning all this stuff...... am so intrigued to actually read some real answers to the actual poll instead of people sweating the small stuff about descriptive words!!!!
> 
> Im sure Ripley used the phrases 'disgusting' 'Painful' and 'negative' because, lets be honest guys, in the society that we live in they are deemed exactly as those things.......farting, burping etc are deemed as taboo's for a reason......yes we all do it, but in light of using them for sexual gratification they are taboo, hence the markers in which Ripley has used. I also reckon (please dont anybody get offended if Im wrong) that in terms of the FA visual to those kinds of things, thats how they would come across, its kinda like the pleasure pain theory isnt it.....we like them, but we shouldn't like them.
> 
> ...



Thanks. I really needed that, lol.




mfdoom said:


> These two have said everything everything I possibly would on the subject so though I could bust out a novel-sized write up, it wouldn't really be worth it. Seriously read those posts. That's honest to god FAism, and not from a heartless shitbag point of view.
> 
> I was worried about this thread. Dimensions has become a land of rifts recently (and maybe not so recently). It's the fat men vs. the skinny guys, it's the BBW against the FAs, it's _everyone_ in hyde park, all I really see is strife. I feared that, as usual, a thread of this seriousness would only work to drive another axe into our forum community. But I'm beginning to think I was wrong, I'm seeing some great posts, and possible even some *gasp* understanding.




That was my intent, and I'm glad to see it come about, at least for some.

There have been many rifts at Dimensions lately. It has caused me to look at how I interact, and I decided to confront something I'm not all that comfortable with head-on in hopes of expanding my and maybe someone else's understanding. 



_______________________________________________________________



People keep saying how negative this thread _could_ be. To me, even though I'm sorta in the hot seat, it hasn't been. I'm learning a lot (kudos to the brave guys who stepped up). I thought (pretty naively, I can see now) that putting it here would avoid the drama and arguing, because of the rules of this subforum.


I'm surprised at how virulent the responses to my word choices were. I knew they wouldn't be popular, but I didn't find them that egregious. 

You know, I'm lazy as hell. I do think it's a negative (I could get a lot more done if I wasn't!) but you know what? I also like it when my laziness turns a guy on. It's a win-win situation for me. The out-of-breath and sweating part...well, climbing stairs or walking a long way, I'm going to be out of breath and sweating, he might as well like it, lol.



Threads around here often lose sight of the original point and instead devolve into nitpicking method, or snarking...I really hope we can keep this one on track. Instead of talking about how negative it _could_ be, maybe we could just each try to make sure it doesn't become negative?


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## Tooz (Jun 26, 2008)

bexylicious said:


> how the HELL did that happen lol!



A fart porn-promoting bot got into a Livejournal community I go to and spammed a hundred posts with a "Fart Queen".


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## ripley (Jun 26, 2008)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> This poll reminds me of the question - "Do you still beat your wife?"
> 
> There is no right answer.



There is no "wrong" answer either, unless YOU view it as such.


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## NancyGirl74 (Jun 26, 2008)

Ripley this is why I love you and very likely why you have ten-bazillions rep points...You're a thinker. You don't just take things at face value. This is a bold question and I'm glad you put it out there. 

Ok, so this is a Size Appreciation/Acceptance site. Does that mean we have to accept and appreciate every aspect of Dims or the fat community in order to be a member? I don't think so. I do not categorize all FAs as being alike in point of view and in their desires just like I would hope they don't categorize BBWs as all being alike. If people who like these things want to be understood then its good to bring them out into the open. Not everyone will like it but perhaps they will be less fearful and/or disgusted by it. 

On a personal note, I have to admit this stuff bugs me too and I'm not really sure how I feel about the poll results thus far. It bothers me to think that something I dislike about my weight is something that someone else might find arousing. However, I am withholding my opinion until I see more responses so I can try to understand to the best of my ability.


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## MisticalMisty (Jun 26, 2008)

NancyGirl74 said:


> On a personal note, I have to admit this stuff bugs me too and I'm not really sure how I feel about the poll results thus far. It bothers me to think that something I dislike about my weight is something that someone else might find arousing. However, I am withholding my opinion until I see more responses so I can try to understand to the best of my ability.


I don't think this is fat specific. There are many people who don't like something about themselves and others find attracted. For example, big noses, small breasts, big feet, etc.

For most people, there will always be something about themselves that they dislike that someone else will want.


I just hope the FAs reading and posting don't feel that they are being judged for liking something deemed "disgusting" etc.

It is interesting to see what some men are attracted to about the "fat" experience.


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## olwen (Jun 26, 2008)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> You know, it's funny, normally I would hate to see a poll like this. I'm one of those FAs who sees something that could put the whole issue in a possibly negative light and I usually go off and spend yet more time worrying about how big of a monster I am. BUT, for some reason, I'm actually kind of glad to see it here. First because it quantifies things and it is a poll so not everyone will have to post to be represented and it does get the issue out on the table. Also, it makes me feel a little better to see what things the other FAs are attracted to as well. I do feel the title of the poll was judgmental, but I actually think that's one of the things that needs to be addressed more in this community in general. There is often a disconnect between the way FAs see what attracts them and how BBW and BHM feel about the same issues. I think a lot of FAs are aware of this. I think it's where a lot of the guilt comes from. It's the reason WE use the word monster to describe ourselves more than the BBW/BHM ever would. But I also think a lot of the BBW/BHM don't understand that for a lot of FAs there are differences between fantasy and reality and between reality and what you would actually do in a certain situation especially with someone you care about. As painful as this discussion may end up, hopefully people will be respectful and we may actually get some of our collective demons as a community dealt with. I hope people take it in that light. I think it could help if that is the case.
> 
> 
> I couldn't agree more. I think this needs to get out in the open more. Not so us FAs can feel "safe" but so that there can be some more understanding on all sides.
> ...



Dr P, thank you for sharing such a powerful post. I'm very glad you wrote it. I think and hope it goes a long way to understanding for many. I'd rep you but I have to spread it around.


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## jdinmi (Jun 26, 2008)

MisticalMisty said:


> I don't think this is fat specific. There are many people who don't like something about themselves and others find attracted. For example, big noses, small breasts, big feet, etc.



That's what I was thinking. My girlfriend claims to like that I stutter. I hate it, but having had a girlfriend in the past who seemed to be even more embarrassed of it than I was, I'm not going to complain. Whether she's just being nice or really does find it attractive, it's certainly better than her disliking something about me that I can't change.

But, that seems different than the issue of "negative, painful, or disgusting" aspects. I'm glad she likes my stutter. But, if she was aroused by watching me struggle to make a phone call, I don't know how I'd feel about that. 

I think it's the same thing here, with fat. It seems like it's one thing to be attracted to a fat person, and another to be attracted/aroused by things that happen because they are fat, that might be embarrassing or difficult for them. I'm trying to think of what the difference is. If you are attracted to fat, does that mean being aroused by all of the things that go along with being fat? Can you separate the two? 

I don't know. I do think that a lot of people are attracted to/aroused by helplessness or struggle. I don't know why, but it seems pretty common. I definitely feel that way at times, and not just or even primarily around fat. A guy who was really into skinny women might find it very arousing if she didn't have the physical strength to do something. I can see why that might not be a positive thing, but I also don't think it's horrible, either. I'm not sure if it's really any different.


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## KHayes666 (Jun 27, 2008)

ripley said:


> Anonymous, multiple-choice poll (if I don't screw it up).
> 
> I got this idea from some posts in the "Fantasy to Concern" thread. You're free to discuss it here if you want to.



I wouldn't mind my date getting stuck in a few chairs or bursting out of clothes, but that's as far as I go.


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## LillyBBBW (Jun 27, 2008)

ripley said:


> <snipped>​
> People keep saying how negative this thread _could_ be. To me, even though I'm sorta in the hot seat, it hasn't been. I'm learning a lot (kudos to the brave guys who stepped up). I thought (pretty naively, I can see now) that putting it here would avoid the drama and arguing, because of the rules of this subforum.
> 
> 
> ...



I'm kinda sorta glad you started this thread Rip. I'm on the list of people who are a little salty about your choice of words, otherwise I think this has been a good discussion so far.

I was out with a friend of mine and he wasn't watching where he was going. He walked right on to a pile of trash on the curb and sprawled out right on top of it. I busted out laughing. It was so funny I just couldn't help it. I was still chuckling when I went over, extended my hand and asked him if he was alright. He was embarassed and pissed that I was laughing at him. I've fallen in public places and even been injured. People laughed and most didn't even bother to help me or check to see if I was okay. I've watched out the window as a guy fell and did the same. 

I don't know why somebody falling down is funny. Situation comedians have milked that schtick for years. For some reason falling down is funny even though it's embarassing and people get hurt. I'm sorta relating this discussion to the same thing. My friend fell, my gut reaction was to laugh and he didn't like it. Surely I didn't mean him any harm, I didn't wish for him to fall, I didn't push him, it would never have occured to me to do so and his falling didn't diminish him in my eyes at all. Stuff like that just happens and no one has any control over it. I'm not out divising ways so I can get my jollies either. It was an occurance and I reacted to it. I probably should learn to better control my outbursts but that's not going to make it less funny. It becomes instantly un-funny when he's been injured.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 27, 2008)

NancyGirl74 said:


> Ripley this is why I love you and very likely why you have ten-bazillions rep points...You're a thinker. You don't just take things at face value. This is a bold question and I'm glad you put it out there.



Ditto. I am glad to see this poll.

I struggle a bit with the concept of feeding to the point of immobilization and possible health problems, because I question if the feedee is in a healthy mental state while making that choice. I'm not saying that I'm right. I'm saying that I don't know, and that I'd like to understand, and that I do realize that this is an unsubstantiated assumption on my part. 

I have similar curiosity about feeders who fantasize about immobility and other, often painful or - depending on how the person involved views her situation - humiliating. I would like to understand. I'm not sure that I'm capable of it, but I do want to try. I am glad that wrestlingguy and others have felt comfortable enough to share their feelings and personal experiences, and I hope to see many others. 

On a personal level, the subject of immobility is a painful one for me. It is one of my greatest fears -- becoming helpless to some extent, and having to rely on others to care for me. When I was at my highest weight, I spent nearly every waking day thinking about how to creatively accommodate my rapidly encroaching problems with moving around and accomplishing daily tasks that required physical exertion. When I lost the weight, I spent several years taking a lot of joy in things that many other people just take for granted -- like, walking without pain, or running, or climbing a set of stairs without feeling like I had wet sandbags exploding into my lungs. Now, as I age, and with the onset of non-weight related joint problems, I am again starting to feel the vague stirrings of encroaching limits to what I can do. It frightens me, badly, and for that reason alone ... I acknowledge that it can be very, very difficult for me to hear that people fantasize about immobility, and other issues that are/were unpleasant for me. But I also know that this is *my* problem, and to the extent that I am capable of it, I would like to try to understand other people's viewpoints.


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## Webmaster (Jun 27, 2008)

ripley said:


> I'm aware that you dislike me, and that's okay.



No need to play victim. 



ripley said:


> As to the reason I asked...a great part of it was curiosity. Another part is that I get approached by a lot of FAs, and I'd like to understand them better.



My concern is your obvious distrust or fear of men that comes out in many of your posts. To then go and ask leading questions in a poll simply seems to serve to solidify your already formed opinion that men, and especially FAs, are demented folks with evil fantasies and thus to be avoided just emphasizes that.

In general:

Fantasies and reality are totally different. You cannot conclude from fantasies what a person is in real-life (i.e. the non-sexual situations that take up most of our time). The old "my fantasies are okay, but yours are not" approach is inappropriate. Moralizing over other people's fantasies is inappropriate. 

A much more productive approach would be to marvel at the wonderful fact that nature has made it so that there are both fat people, and those who seek and desire them. Play it right, and it is a match made in heaven.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 27, 2008)

Webmaster said:


> My concern is your obvious distrust or fear of men that comes out in many of your posts. To then go and ask leading questions in a poll simply seems to serve to solidify your already formed opinion that men, and especially FAs, are demented folks with evil fantasies and thus to be avoided just emphasizes that.



This is unfair. You don't know Ripley, and you can't possibly know what (if any) issues she may have with men. I like Ripley, and I enjoy reading what she has to say, so I follow many of the threads that she contributes to. I don't see "fear" or "distrust" of men. I see a woman who simply doesn't wish to be objectified. What is "obvious" to you is far from being an objective reality. 

I know that Ripley hardly needs me to defend her, and it isn't my primary intent to do so, anyway. I am generally appalled that you'd make such a callous observation about someone that you don't know. You're Webmaster. Conrad. People don't generally seem to like to challenge you. 



> In general:
> 
> Fantasies and reality are totally different. You cannot conclude from fantasies that a person is in real-life (i.e. the non-sexual situations that take up most of our time). The old "my fantasies are okay, but yours are not" approach is inappropriate. Moralizing over other people's fantasies is inappropriate.
> 
> A much more productive approach would be to marvel at the wonderful fact that nature has made it so that there are both fat people, and those who seek and desire them. Play it right, and it is a match made in heaven.



I think we all get that. Fantasies are harmless, check. We can't even control [most] of the fantastic imagery that pops into our heads, check. What I've seen in various threads is discussion of the appropriateness of *acting* on various impulses. Perhaps some moralizing has taken place on the notion of even *having* the fantasies, but I haven't seen that behavior here, and particularly not from Ripley. She's gone out of her way to explain that she's trying to understand. 

As an aside, if I haven't made it clear already, I do acknowledge that fantasies are a far cry from reality. And we act out our fantasies in many ways, on many different levels. Most of us would draw the line long before genuinely harming the people we care about. I get that. I really do.


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## LillyBBBW (Jun 27, 2008)

Webmaster said:


> No need to play victim.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Conrad I agree with you. Speaking only for myself though I have been rethinking the gut reaction to debase people for being ignorant. After all, this is supposed to be a place where people can come together and learn about each other. There are some who are unwilling to do that at all and then there are others willing to put themselves out there and ask the stupid questions and blurt out the rediculous notions. I just don't feel it serves any of us to get angry, especially when one is willing to sit at the table and listen - even at the risk of being assaulted with claims of offense. I think there have been fair demonstrations of people willing to take that risk demonstrated from both sides. I'd love to see what happens if we can honor that and let things play themselves out anger free.


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## NancyGirl74 (Jun 27, 2008)

MisticalMisty said:


> I don't think this is fat specific. There are many people who don't like something about themselves and others find attracted. For example, big noses, small breasts, big feet, etc.
> 
> For most people, there will always be something about themselves that they dislike that someone else will want.



I guess I should say that a man finding my fat attractive is not bothersome to me. Sometimes its hard for me to accept those feelings because I don't feel them myself but that is my issue, not theirs. I also happen to dislike my nose but have been complimented on it numerous times. I appreciate that someone might find it attractive even if I don't. That is not my issue here. My issue is that some men find certain things a sexual turn on that are not just part of the athstetics of being fat. They are a huge part of the struggle of being fat. Being attracted to someone who has dwarfism is one thing. Getting turned on by their struggle to climb steps or see over a counter would be just as distasteful to me as someone finding my struggle to breathe or move distasteful. Clearly there is a fine line between finding something attractive and taking pleasure in the misfortune of others. Perhaps this touches on the S&M side of things in which case then this becomes a whole new topic. 

I'm not trying to pass judgment on other people's tastes and turn-ons. I'm just speaking for myself and I know that if I had a guy who said that he got a thrill every time I huffed and puffed my way up some stairs I would be hurt and slightly pissed. Very likely the next time he struggled with his hair loss or his inability to get it up as quickly as he used to I'd be a right 'ol bitch and say, "Ohh baby, your flaccid penis/receeding hairline turn me on!"


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## MisticalMisty (Jun 27, 2008)

NancyGirl74 said:


> Clearly there is a fine line between finding something attractive and taking pleasure in the misfortune of others. Perhaps this touches on the S&M side of things in which case then this becomes a whole new topic.



I think a very small number of FAs that find more than aethistics of fat are real sadists. I'd say maybe 1 out of 10,000. S&M is a whole other ball game. I think it's naive of BBWs and BHMs to think that all FAs are only attracted to the actual body of the person. I think it was Dunwin that mentioned he was fascinated with the physics of it and I'm sure that he's not alone. 

Also..what seems like a misfortune to one, may not be to another and I would garner a wager that the men don't WANT to feel attracted to someone else's misfortune if they indeed see it that way 



NancyGirl74 said:


> I'm not trying to pass judgment on other people's tastes and turn-ons. I'm just speaking for myself and I know that if I had a guy who said that he got a thrill every time I huffed and puffed my way up some stairs I would be hurt and slightly pissed. Very likely the next time he struggled with his hair loss or his inability to get it up as quickly as he used to I'd be a right 'ol bitch and say, "Ohh baby, your flaccid penis/receeding hairline turn me on!"



That would be completely unfair to the man that your with. Our weight is our responsibility. We get to choose what we eat and when we exercise etc. A man has no say in the biological conditions such as a receeding hairling or ED. It would, therefore, be unfair to make such a comparision.


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## missy_blue_eyez (Jun 27, 2008)

Wow you actually reckon there are that many FA's around?? lol cause I keep bumping into the same few! hehe


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 27, 2008)

MisticalMisty said:


> That would be completely unfair to the man that your with. Our weight is our responsibility. We get to choose what we eat and when we exercise etc. A man has no say in the biological conditions such as a receeding hairling or ED. It would, therefore, be unfair to make such a comparision.



First, I'm not so sure that I agree with a blanket statement about our weight being our responsibility. There are many possible medical and/or psychological conditions that could determine weight, and whether we gain or lose. 

But I think it's beside the point, anyway. Even if my weight is 100% my responsibility, I get to choose what I am and am not comfortable with. Like Nancy, I wouldn't be at all OK with my husband being turned on by conditions that are painful for me. I wouldn't be able to control my discomfort any more than he would be able to control his excitement (if that turned him on). To that end, I thought that Nancy's comparison was an apt one. She wasn't suggesting that either condition would be his fault. She was relating the two in terms of emotional discomfort.


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## Tooz (Jun 27, 2008)

Webmaster said:


> No need to play victim.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I cannot stress enough how much I agree with this. Being moral police over something like this hits my hot button pretty quickly. Would I fart all over my partner if that's what they wanted? No, probably not. Would I look down on someone because that's what they want? No, but I probably wouldn't sleep with them.

I do see this almost thought-police-like mentality emerge on the weight board sometimes and even on the posts I find creepy (short of one or two last year), I do feel that it's their personal choice. Even if they're not just fantasizing, if they find a consenting adult who enjoys the same activities, what they do in their time is their business and I would never judge them for that.


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## Carl1h (Jun 27, 2008)

It seems to me that knowing about these sort of fantasies and being able to talk about these sort of fantasies is important for both fat people and FAs. If I'm in a relationship with someone, I care about them and I want to make them happy and I want to do what I can to explore their fantasies. It looks to me like a lot of these fantasies are open to some perfectly harmless play. Out of breath from exertion is easy to play up and even actual exertion isn't really a big deal. Tight fitting clothes are easy to arrange, even if it's just a matter of bringing out clothes that you knew would never fit (possible at any size), "oh these pants fit perfectly yesterday, but I had such a big breakfast, now I can't button them! And this shirt! Did it shrink? It's soo small and tight!" You can say how humiliating something is without it being, in that circumstance, humiliating. You wanna see me struggle with the car? I'll move the seat up and lower the steering wheel and give you a show. I can always move it all back when I really need to go somewhere. Throw the mattress halfway off the bed, lie down on the part on the floor and then, "honey! I broke the bed! Oh no, and I'm stuck here on the floor and I need help!" Make up a story about breaking a chair in a restaurant at lunch. Go travel trailer shopping and wedge yourself in the narrow doors and tiny bathrooms for effect. Make a game of it. It doesn't have to all be real, you can pretend to have eaten so much that you just can't get off the couch, without really becoming immobile. None of these things has to be negative in the right context, these fantasies seem pretty easy to exaggerate and pretend without being harmful at all.

If my SO had fantasies about sex with a dead person, the solution wouldn't be for me to be dead every time we had sex or for the two of us to break into mortuaries. The solution would be for me to lie there and play dead sometimes, and assuming that I care about my SO and I want her to be happy, laying there and playing dead sometimes really isn't that big of a deal.


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## NancyGirl74 (Jun 27, 2008)

Misty, I had this great, long, well thought out response...and then I accidentally deleted it! :doh: Because I can't be bothered rewriting it all I'm keeping this one short and to the point. 

I know some people choose to be fat and that is fine. I also know that what I choose to eat contributes to my size. However, even if I dieted every day for the rest of my life I'd never be thin. I was simply not meant to be. That being said, I never once chose to have knees that hardly support me while walking up stairs. I never chose to have nearly constant lower back pain or sore, bloated feet. I certainly never chose to have high blood pressure that struggles to be maintained and may very well be shortening my life span. I never chose to have these fat related issues and if someone took pleasure in them...well, yeah it would bother me because they upset me greatly and deeply at times. 

I have no issue with people liking what they like but if I had a boyfriend who told me he was turned on by the very things he knew I found upsetting about being fat then yes I would be hurt and angry. Turning the tables on him to prove a point might be mean of me but maybe he'll see where I'm coming from. Maybe he'll see that his finding joy in the things that physically and emotionally hurt me is frankly a little mean on his part as well. 

This is all just based on my personal feelings. To restate, I have no issue with what other people like and/or desire. If its not for me then I say so. That doesn't mean I think everyone should think and feel as I do. I speak only for myself and my own likes, dislikes, what I'm tolerant of and not so much. If this imaginary boyfriend didn't know me well enough to know my feelings on this topic he would soon find out. Maybe his next girlfriend would be into those things as well and all would be right with the world. My other imaginary boyfriend is smokin' hot and likes me for me. So, I can be kind and wish Imaginary Boyfriend #1 lots luck and happiness. See? I might be a bitch but I'm a nice one. 

PS...so much for short and to the point.


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## BLUEeyedBanshee (Jun 27, 2008)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> Y
> For me personally, the line you're describing is my boundary. I may find something exciting as a fantasy, but wouldn't want to see it in reality. Or I may enjoy seeing something in reality if it's there (say a big man getting out of car) but either the arousal ends if I see the look of frustration on his face, or more importantly, I might not want to see someone I cared about and knew reach that state themselves. Does that make sense? It doesn't mean I totally dehumanize the fat man I see randomly in the parking lot, but it does mean I just see him and move on, the way any woman might check out a hot guy and then get on with her day. But if I was with someone who was struggling and frustrated, that would not turn me on. Although, I do not think that makes me a better person than someone who does get turned on by the struggle itself. I'm sure they can't control it. And I only learned my own boundaries from personal experiences. But for me, it's the actual physical movement of a large person doing certain things, it's not the struggle itself (emotionally or in terms of discomfort and things) that I find arousing, it's purely the visual. Also, I find men attractive over at least a 250 pound weight range and that covers everything from smallish BHM to super size and the truth is, I am attracted to different things depending on the man's size. And I do not find one more or less attractive than the other. I would never want, let's say, a 280 pound man to get bigger so that he would waddle for me. In fact, I personally(and this is not judging, I'm just explaining my personal thoughts as an FA) would not be very comfortable in a feeder/feedee/gainer relationship because I don't like the idea of a partner changing to please me even if it is only in the implied way that feederism has. I do find feederism exciting, but my personal comfort level would keep me from entering an honest to God feeder/feedee relationship. It's one thing if a partner gains weight because they like to eat, but the idea of me somehow being part of it doesn't make me comfortable. But I can understand that there are others who feel differently and I don't think for a minute that they are monsters. As long as it is what both partners want then I don't see the problem, as long as they stop once someone doesn't want it any more. Again, boundaries.
> 
> But I think in terms of this board, it is good to be able to discuss fantasy without being attacked all the time. I know a lot of people get angry when FAs say things like I'm about to say, but this is not in any way trying to compare anyone's struggles or pain. But the truth is, some of us are dealing with these issues all the time, or went through periods where we had to. We sometimes feel like monsters. This is not the easiest way to feel about yourself. It's not. This is not to say, "poor FAs" and I know there are unrepentant horndogs, but there are sensitive FAs and normal, caring, loving people who are FAs and maybe get turned on when someone gets winded. That doesn't change any of those other aspects of them. They aren't suddenly less loving, or caring, although apparently many would say they are less normal once they admit to their fantasy. I guess I'm just trying to say that an FA can be a good person and someone who would be great to be in a relationship with even if their fantasies or turn ons aren't always exactly what the fat people feel comfortable with. But it doesn't mean we're all secretly getting off on your pain or that if one of us does he/she doesn't feel bad about it. Again, these are the issues that I think are at the heart of a lot of FA guilt even among those who don't like any of the things listed in this poll. Because let's face it with society's negative attitude to fat, there's a certain emotional struggle involved for a lot of fat people just about being fat. Or there was at some point in most fat people's lives. Yet, finding fat people attractive in general isn't seen as monstrous here, so why should some of the things on that list make a person out of hand a monster. And I DO understand being upset by someone who does enjoy the humiliation aspect, but once again, is it something they seek out or something they wish they could change about themselves too? I can't answer for FAs like that, but I would guess if it's someone who wishes they could change it about themselves but can't, well, I'm guessing being in a relationship with that person would feel no different than being in a relationship with me or anyone else who doesn't find that appealing. Many people, male and female are able to make decisions and distinctions about their behavior. Many people would never choose their fantasy over a partner's happiness. I know there are FAs who just care about getting off, but their fantasies are often shared by the FAs who are interested in real relationships too. And I think if everyone is discussing FANTASY it shouldn't suddenly make it seem that even the good guys are monsters because they admit to liking certain things sexually that may seem odd or scary to some. Many of us are very human and pretty decent as people and we're not all ticking time bombs of depraved perversity waiting to undo the fat people who cross our paths. I know that's not what anyone here is trying to say, but to FA ears, that is often what it sounds like. I know, we say things that make the fat people feel less than human too sometimes, so, again, not looking for sympathy, just trying to be honest for the sake of mutual understanding. And since I'm a chick FA and can express my feelings more openly I thought I'd try to explain how it can feel from the other side sometimes. OK, another overly long post and I hope it made sense.



Amen sista.

Seriously I could not have said it better myself. There are and have been many times I have seriously thought that I am some kind of monster/freak because of the things that turn me on. However, anytime there is an indication of discomfort, the thing that was a turn on for me quickly gets shut off. Not saying if the same situation occurred again, without any indication of discomfort it would not be a turn on again. 

Mutual understanding is definitely something that can be created through a thread like this, if used properly.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 27, 2008)

Tooz said:


> Even if they're not just fantasizing, if they find a consenting adult who enjoys the same activities, what they do in their time is their business and I would never judge them for that.



Are we going to just pretend that there aren't vulnerable adults who are able to meaningfully function in society, but are incapable of a rational degree of informed consent? That there aren't women who fall prey to sadistic men with feeder impulses? There are degrees of consent, Tooz. A reasonably emotionally healthy woman could fall victim to what is at first a subtle form of manipulation and then, over time, evolves into outright sadistic abuse. At what point does she stop being a consenting adult? I guess that's what I'm interested in. It is, after all, my profession (working with vulnerable adults). 

In the course of my career, I have worked with two young(ish) individuals who were ultimately placed in long-term care facilities because they were completely incapacitated by their weight and unable to care for themselves. They had no family members or friends who could step up and provide the level of care that they needed. I have no idea if they were involved in feeding relationships prior to the point at which they became my clients (in fact, would assume not), but I do know that they stopped being able to meaningfully consent to anything a long time before the crisis point that brought them to the attention of medical professionals, and then later assigned to my caseload. For the sake of conjecture, because we *do* know that such a scenario exists, let's say that one of them had been involved in a feeder/feedee relationship. She gave her consent. She loved to eat. She wanted to please her lover, and she felt in complete control of her sexuality and of the relationship. But no matter how much she gained, it was never enough for her man. At some point, her self-esteem began to erode. What was once fun and completely consensual became painful and damaging to her physical/emotional well-being. Ultimately, as her degree of incapacity grew into complete dependence on her lover, he became disinterested in providing her with the level of care that she needed, and moved on. At the age of 50, she became a permanent resident in a nursing home. 

For me, the issue of "informed consent" is far more important than the term "consenting adult." In a situation where vulnerability exists (whether that be social, economic, or emotional), I'm not sure that there is such a thing as "consenting". 

I am not pointing to any specific event or incident, nor am I relating these comments directly to anything that anyone has said. I am just wondering at the "let's not judge the behavior of consenting adults" when nothing has ever been said about the definition of "consenting".


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## goofy girl (Jun 27, 2008)

I'm not going to say much, other than after being online for a few years..nothing surprises me anymore. I think that we all kind of feel the same way about this: if it works for you, and for your partner, then fabulous. 

I also don't see how it can hurt to explore these issues and try to get to the root of things, either. I mean, seriously..how many threads are there on whether or not fat is a fetish..or how FA's _really_ feel, or _why_ they like big girls/guys and all that jazz?? This is just taking it one step further. I think that opening these things up for discussion is a good way to understand, and learn to not judge people for having feelings/attractions/fetishes that they have.


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## olwen (Jun 27, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> Are we going to just pretend that there aren't vulnerable adults who are able to meaningfully function in society, but are incapable of a rational degree of informed consent? That there aren't women who fall prey to sadistic men with feeder impulses? There are degrees of consent, Tooz. A reasonably emotionally healthy woman could fall victim to what is at first a subtle form of manipulation and then, over time, evolves into outright sadistic abuse. At what point does she stop being a consenting adult? I guess that's what I'm interested in. It is, after all, my profession (working with vulnerable adults).
> 
> In the course of my career, I have worked with two young(ish) individuals who were ultimately placed in long-term care facilities because they were completely incapacitated by their weight and unable to care for themselves. They had no family members or friends who could step up and provide the level of care that they needed. I have no idea if they were involved in feeding relationships prior to the point at which they became my clients (in fact, would assume not), but I do know that they stopped being able to meaningfully consent to anything a long time before the crisis point that brought them to the attention of medical professionals, and then later assigned to my caseload. For the sake of conjecture, because we *do* know that such a scenario exists, let's say that one of them had been involved in a feeder/feedee relationship. She gave her consent. She loved to eat. She wanted to please her lover, and she felt in complete control of her sexuality and of the relationship. But no matter how much she gained, it was never enough for her man. At some point, her self-esteem began to erode. What was once fun and completely consensual became painful and damaging to her physical/emotional well-being. Ultimately, as her degree of incapacity grew into complete dependence on her lover, he became disinterested in providing her with the level of care that she needed, and moved on. At the age of 50, she became a permanent resident in a nursing home.
> 
> ...



Traci, I had all sorts of thoughts swirling around in my head after I read this post. The first thing that came to mind, is here is a woman who says she wants to understand, yet here is this post that doesn't seem to support that statement. 

My next thought was caveat emptor. Buyer beware. It becomes incumbent upon the adults involved to think these things thru and talk them out. Sure saying a thing and doing a thing are two different things, but really, personal responsibility is just that. No one else is responsible for anybody who can be responsible for themselves. If someone clearly demonstrates an inability to be responsible, say a child or a mentally handicapped person, then okay that's different. But what what I read into what you are saying is that you assume when you say there is a difference between informed consent and just consent - in your example - is that the gainer/fat woman is incapable of being responsible for her own well being, or that she is the perennial victim by virture of being a woman and fat, or because she wants to please her partner - and that the feeder is the perennial abuser because he is a man - this line of reasoning makes me uncomfortable, and I just don't see how that reasoning is helpful. 

I can also see the counter-argument to what I've just said: "but in a loving relationship...," or "a rational person wouldn't..." So what. The abuser has power as long as the person being abused gives him/her that power. In a relationship both parties have the responsibility to communicate what they're feeling. If the gainer hits a point where she is regretful or wants to stop it's up to her to take the initiative to either make changes within the relationship or to try to leave - even if it's to a point where she needs to be placed in a nursing home. Sure the gainer had a role in that, but ultimately it's on her. It also makes me uncomfortable to assume that a person who wants to be that incapacitated is somehow being irrational. That doesn't matter. If it's her body and mind then it's her choice to make. It's the same reasoning process that goes into any sort of thoughts about policing women's bodies in any way. 

I take this stance from growing up with an abusive father and wondering all the time why my mother didn't just tell him to go fuck himself and get the hell out. If it were me I wouldn't have put up with it. My sisters and I tried to convince her to leave for years - to no avail. Then one day something clicked and she kicked him out - 30 years later. She took personal responsibility finally for her role in that situation. As complicated as this issue is, I still maintain the abused adult has the ability to walk away whether she knows it or not.

If you really want to understand this feeding to the point of incapacity business you really won't be able to if you assume that there is no such thing as informed consent. I know that if I am going to engage in play that is potentially dangerous and I can't forsee all the possible outcomes, I either gather as much information about it as I can or I don't do it. I would never say to the other person - "You a-hole, how could you be so callous? It's your fault this bad thing happened to me." 

I'm really not trying to be contentious, but honestly, this is how I've interpreted your post, and it just makes me feel uncomfortable.


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## LillyBBBW (Jun 27, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> Are we going to just pretend that there aren't vulnerable adults who are able to meaningfully function in society, but are incapable of a rational degree of informed consent? That there aren't women who fall prey to sadistic men with feeder impulses? There are degrees of consent, Tooz. A reasonably emotionally healthy woman could fall victim to what is at first a subtle form of manipulation and then, over time, evolves into outright sadistic abuse. At what point does she stop being a consenting adult? I guess that's what I'm interested in. It is, after all, my profession (working with vulnerable adults).
> 
> In the course of my career, I have worked with two young(ish) individuals who were ultimately placed in long-term care facilities because they were completely incapacitated by their weight and unable to care for themselves. They had no family members or friends who could step up and provide the level of care that they needed. I have no idea if they were involved in feeding relationships prior to the point at which they became my clients (in fact, would assume not), but I do know that they stopped being able to meaningfully consent to anything a long time before the crisis point that brought them to the attention of medical professionals, and then later assigned to my caseload. For the sake of conjecture, because we *do* know that such a scenario exists, let's say that one of them had been involved in a feeder/feedee relationship. She gave her consent. She loved to eat. She wanted to please her lover, and she felt in complete control of her sexuality and of the relationship. But no matter how much she gained, it was never enough for her man. At some point, her self-esteem began to erode. What was once fun and completely consensual became painful and damaging to her physical/emotional well-being. Ultimately, as her degree of incapacity grew into complete dependence on her lover, he became disinterested in providing her with the level of care that she needed, and moved on. At the age of 50, she became a permanent resident in a nursing home.
> 
> ...



I understand that this is a legitimate concern but is this alarmist fear truly necessary at all times? Abuse is real. It happens. Not to be cruel but I still don't see why anyone should view it as relevant to a discussion about their own desires. If I like a good scotch why must a tale of a piss drunk alcoholic be introduced? I'm not belittling it, we know these things happen and they're terrible but the klaxon worry just seems out of proportion to me.


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## Tooz (Jun 27, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> Are we going to just pretend that there aren't vulnerable adults who are able to meaningfully function in society, but are incapable of a rational degree of informed consent? That there aren't women who fall prey to sadistic men with feeder impulses? There are degrees of consent, Tooz. A reasonably emotionally healthy woman could fall victim to what is at first a subtle form of manipulation and then, over time, evolves into outright sadistic abuse. At what point does she stop being a consenting adult? I guess that's what I'm interested in. It is, after all, my profession (working with vulnerable adults).



Realistically-- if you can't see when it is becoming abuse (or that you feel it is becoming abuse) and walk away when it gets to that point, the problem is bigger than sexual acts/abuse within the relationship.

I stand by that even having had similar things happen to me in my past. I acknowledged I was a big part of the problem.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 27, 2008)

olwen said:


> But what what I read into what you are saying is that you assume when you say there is a difference between informed consent and just consent - in your example - is that the gainer/fat woman is incapable of being responsible for her own well being, or that she is the perennial victim by virture of being a woman and fat, or because she wants to please her partner - and that the feeder is the perennial abuser because he is a man - this line of reasoning makes me uncomfortable, and I just don't see how that reasoning is helpful.



Olwen, I don't think that a woman is a victim by virtue of being *anything*, be that fat or physically disabled or impoverished. I don't think that I've implied that, and I certainly didn't mean to. I don't think that all feeders are sadistic abusers. I don't think that all fat women are vulnerable. I believe that both instances are actually distinct minorities of people, but they *do* exist. And sometimes, a woman who feels that she is strong and capable can be seduced into a relationship that ultimately proves to be severely damaging to her mental and physical well-being. 

Again, though ... the condition of being fat has nothing to do with the separate issue of being vulnerable. I was a fat woman, and I was never anyone's victim. I never shall be. I do recognize, though, that I have my own set of vulnerabilities that can be exploited; I think we all do. 



> I can also see the counter-argument to what I've just said: "but in a loving relationship...," or "a rational person wouldn't..." So what. The abuser has power as long as the person being abused gives him/her that power. In a relationship both parties have the responsibility to communicate what they're feeling.



I can't even begin to say how strongly I disagree here. Everything within me -- my personal experience, my professional training, my own set of values - goes against the notion of blaming the victim. A person with power to end abuse would likely not be caught up in an abusive relationship in the first place. A person who is trapped in a cycle of abuse (any kind of abuse) and remains in that situation is likely as much a victim of circumstance as he/she is to his/her state of mental incapacitation. Telling someone that he/she has options is not the same as blaming him/her for the abuse. That lies solely with the abuser. In a relationship in which one person is the abuser, what the other person is feeling is irrelevent to the abuser. So much for communication. 




> If the gainer hits a point where she is regretful or wants to stop it's up to her to take the initiative to either make changes within the relationship or to try to leave - even if it's to a point where she needs to be placed in a nursing home. Sure the gainer had a role in that, but ultimately it's on her. It also makes me uncomfortable to assume that a person who wants to be that incapacitated is somehow being irrational. That doesn't matter. If it's her body and mind then it's her choice to make. It's the same reasoning process that goes into any sort of thoughts about policing women's bodies in any way.



I agree that the gainer can and should take the initiative if she wishes to make changes. But then, we're talking about a woman who is aware of the risks/rewards, and emotionally healthy enough to own responsibility for the situation. Some women (again, not all) are not capable of that ... or reach a point at which they no longer are. 

And Olwen, a person who wishes to be incapacitated to the point of complete reliance upon others would in fact become the legal definition of a vulnerable adult when he/she reached that point. I am not trying to bestow negative judgment upon that choice, I am stating only that it is not - by any reasonable interpretation - a rational choice. 



> I take this stance from growing up with an abusive father and wondering all the time why my mother didn't just tell him to go fuck himself and get the hell out. If it were me I wouldn't have put up with it. My sisters and I tried to convince her to leave for years - to no avail. Then one day something clicked and she kicked him out - 30 years later. She took personal responsibility finally for her role in that situation. As complicated as this issue is, I still maintain the abused adult has the ability to walk away whether she knows it or not.



I won't comment on your personal situation, as that is uniquely your experience. I will say, though, that an abused adult who doesn't know that she has the ability to walk away ... doesn't have an ability to do so. The problem is that many do not realize it. Others have children who tie them to the relationship, for a multitude of socio-economic and situational reasons. Some fear retaliation (a practical concern, as many abusers simply will not let go, and a high percentage of women end up being severely injured or killed after they walk away). 



> If you really want to understand this feeding to the point of incapacity business you really won't be able to if you assume that there is no such thing as informed consent. I know that if I am going to engage in play that is potentially dangerous and I can't forsee all the possible outcomes, I either gather as much information about it as I can or I don't do it. I would never say to the other person - "You a-hole, how could you be so callous? It's your fault this bad thing happened to me."
> 
> I'm really not trying to be contentious, but honestly, this is how I've interpreted your post, and it just makes me feel uncomfortable.



Again, I did not imply (or mean to imply) that there cannot be informed consent in a feeder/feedee relationship. In fact, in the vast majority of such relationships, I'm sure that both parties are fully capable adults. 

Intentionally feeding to the point of incapacity is another issue altogether, in my mind, but again ... I also understand that this too can be an experience in which both adults are making informed choices. 

My point really was that there *are* vulnerable women who *can* be exploited, and this is true of any circumstance, not particular to just this situation. In that case, anyone who suggests that she's culpable for the abuse that she's suffering ... I would suggest a bit of education as to the nature of physical/emotional abuse, and the toll that it takes on the victim. 

I understand that this isn't a comfortable topic. I understand why you may feel that I'm being disingenuous. I am not. I am simply not comfortable myself, with the overriding assumption that every adult in a relationship that could result in harm (whether that be hard-core S&M, feederism, bondage and torture, etc) is a consenting adult. That is all.


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## olwen (Jun 27, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> Olwen, I don't think that a woman is a victim by virtue of being *anything*, be that fat or physically disabled or impoverished. I don't think that I've implied that, and I certainly didn't mean to. I don't think that all feeders are sadistic abusers. I don't think that all fat women are vulnerable. I believe that both instances are actually distinct minorities of people, but they *do* exist. *And sometimes, a woman who feels that she is strong and capable can be seduced into a relationship that ultimately proves to be severely damaging to her mental and physical well-being.*
> 
> The sticky point for me here is the word "seduced." I picture a troll with an evil grin approaching little red riding hood on her way to grandma's house. "Come here little girl. Do you want some candy?" Meanwhile the wolf is waiting to eat her. The use of this word, for me, implies that a woman is incapable of thinking for herself. Little red can take the candy and go with the troll or say no and still end up walking into a trap. Even if she does take the candy, even if she does walk into that trap, it's still her choice to do so whether she realizes it or not. Isn't the risk we all take in life no matter what we do or who we do it with? You can find the poison candy or the trap around every corner. Little red may not be aware of the danger, but it's still incumbent upon her to make herself aware. Ignorance of the law doesn't negate one's culpability eh?
> 
> ...



I do understand why you are comfortable and familiar with the idea that harm couldn't possibly be anything other than harm. This is actually true. But for those of us who may engage in this behavior to any degree, it isn't harm. It is pleasure. Whatever form it takes, pain, bondage, humiliation, torture, feederism, giving up sexual control, ect - it isn't harm. All you have to do to make any attempts to even begin to understand this is to just accept that. We do not consent to harm. We consent to pleasure. There IS a difference between good pain and bad pain. I stub my toe or I tear my rotator cuff - It hurts. I get whacked on the ass or caned anywhere - it feels good. I know you may not be able to see the difference, but understand that there is one for the simple fact that I say there is. 

I could argure that any adult who does anything I don't understand is whacko and incapable of making rational decisions, but I don't. There are other cultures with mores I may not find "rational," but that doesn't necessarily make it so. It just makes it foreign.


...Tho you _say _you want to understand feederism I'm honestly not so sure you really _want _to understand....

ETA: would it help if I did this?: "feederism," "bondage," "torture," "pain," "humiliation," "sexual control," "ect."


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 27, 2008)

olwen said:


> I do understand why you are comfortable and familiar with the idea that harm couldn't possibly be anything other than harm. This is actually true. But for those of us who may engage in this behavior to any degree, it isn't harm. It is pleasure. Whatever form it takes, pain, bondage, humiliation, torture, feederism, giving up sexual control, ect - it isn't harm. All you have to do to make any attempts to even begin to understand this is to just accept that. We do not consent to harm. We consent to pleasure. There IS a difference between good pain and bad pain. I stub my toe or I tear my rotator cuff - It hurts. I get whacked on the ass or caned anywhere - it feels good. I know you may not be able to see the difference, but understand that there is one for the simple fact that I say there is.
> 
> I could argure that any adult who does anything I don't understand is whacko and incapable of making rational decisions, but I don't. There are other cultures with mores I may not find "rational," but that doesn't necessarily make it so. It just makes it foreign.
> 
> ...



Olwen, everything you've said here is obvious to the point where you shouldn't feel the need to even clarify. I get that there is good pain and bad pain. I get that what feels good to you may not feel that way to me. But none of the points that you've made above address the issue of abuse and control, when that control is one-sided. 

I believe that your feelings regarding abuse are/were shaped by your own unique experiences. I get that, and respect it.

Finally, wanting to understand something doesn't equate to condoning it. Feederism/erotic food play, etc ... I get it. I even find some of it very erotic. It is the extremes that bother me, and while I will never approve of it, I *would* like to understand the viewpoints of those who engage in it.


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## Tooz (Jun 27, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> I will never approve of it



I guess this is where I get hung up: it shouldn't matter if you approve of it or not, and you've made it very clear in several threads that you don't. I guess if you don't like it, you shouldn't look...but that's just me.

Kinda like how I get sucked into Hyde Park sometimes. I KNOW I shouldn't look, and most of the time I don't. I think this is an important thing to keep in mind on an _internet forum_.


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## KHayes666 (Jun 27, 2008)

Tooz said:


> I guess this is where I get hung up: it shouldn't matter if you approve of it or not, and you've made it very clear in several threads that you don't. I guess if you don't like it, you shouldn't look...but that's just me.
> 
> Kinda like how I get sucked into Hyde Park sometimes. I KNOW I shouldn't look, and most of the time I don't. I think this is an important thing to keep in mind on an _internet forum_.



Ok...I just woke up and am too lazy to go back and read the last 3 pages. What is Traci not approving of this time?


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 27, 2008)

Tooz said:


> I guess this is where I get hung up: it shouldn't matter if you approve of it or not, and you've made it very clear in several threads that you don't. I guess if you don't like it, you shouldn't look...but that's just me.
> 
> Kinda like how I get sucked into Hyde Park sometimes. I KNOW I shouldn't look, and most of the time I don't. I think this is an important thing to keep in mind on an _internet forum_.



I don't tend to stay away from exploring something just because it makes me uncomfortable. If I did that, I wouldn't have experienced half of the wonderful things in my life. I'll take the bad that came with the good, gladly.

In the meantime, I will continue to contribute to this thread when the urge strikes. You are equally free to look away (and since this is your advise, I'm assuming that this is how you prefer to handle uncomfortable issues).


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## Tooz (Jun 27, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> I don't tend to stay away from exploring something just because it makes me uncomfortable. If I did that, I wouldn't have experienced half of the wonderful things in my life. I'll take the bad that came with the good, gladly.
> 
> In the meantime, I will continue to contribute to this thread when the urge strikes. You are equally free to look away (and since this is your advise, I'm assuming that this is how you prefer to handle uncomfortable issues).



There _are_ ways to learn without practically screaming from the mountain tops that you don't like something or it makes you uncomfortable. There is a difference between learning about/exploring something and trying to counter everything anyone says about it.



Just sayin'.


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## olwen (Jun 27, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> Olwen, everything you've said here is obvious to the point where you shouldn't feel the need to even clarify. I get that there is good pain and bad pain. I get that what feels good to you may not feel that way to me. But none of the points that you've made above address the issue of abuse and control, when that control is one-sided.
> 
> I believe that your feelings regarding abuse are/were shaped by your own unique experiences. I get that, and respect it.
> 
> Finally, wanting to understand something doesn't equate to condoning it. Feederism/erotic food play, etc ... I get it. I even find some of it very erotic. It is the extremes that bother me, and while I will never approve of it, I *would* like to understand the viewpoints of those who engage in it.



See, what I'm getting from your posts about this issue is that to you, the extreme aspects of feederism = abuse. Am I wrong? I don't currently engage in feederism, but I get it. I get the extreme aspects too, and to me it's not abuse. It's just people doing stuff they get much pleasure from, and the consequences are just part of the package. That's all it is. That's all. What more is there to get? Do the details really matter all that much? 

As far as all this stuff about the "disgusting" things that FAs like about our bodies, it makes sense to me this way: all of those things are part of being fat and as such may or may not become included in the turn on to whatever degree. Period. That's really all there is to it. The details....bah. It really is as simple as that.


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## KHayes666 (Jun 27, 2008)

Ok...I just got myself a bottle of pepsi so I'm caffinated and ready to go. I've looked back at the previous pages so I've decided to respond.....and because I'm cranky due to the thunderstorm waking me up too early, I'm going to be very blunt.

Ripley - We know you hate men, why on earth would you post a poll detailing the "disgusting, painful" aspects of what most F/A's enjoy when people may not find them disgusting. What you did was basically create a poll where people have to confess to being more or less "sick" or "weird"?

Missy_Blue_Eyez - I wouldn't be arroused from you being sweaty and out of breath walking up a flight of stairs. I'd be arroused if I was walking behind you checking you out for 4 flights of stairs lol

Tooz - We know you looked for the fart porn, don't lie!

Duniwin - You're the man....don't ask, you just are

Sandie - What the hell does wife beating have to do with someone breaking a chair or being out of breath when they walk/waddle?

Misty - If you're attracted to big feet....*looks down*....damn lol

Jdinmi - That's what drives me crazy about a lot of people, not just fat girls but people in general who hate something you like. Like if a girl hates her belly or she hates how she trips down the same flight of stairs no matter how many times she's gone up and down.....sometimes things are so damn cute we can't explain why we're attracted to it, and sometimes the person makes us feel like a jerk for liking it.

LillyBBW - The next time I roll down the stairs at your place, i DARE you to laugh at me.....then again you probably would 

Nancy - As a follow up to what I was saying to Jdinmi, a lot of people are attracted to fat and are quickly turned off for liking so. I'm glad you don't have a problem with it because what's a guy supposed to do? I can't tell you how many times I used to go in the chatrooms and see a few people constantly complaining how men are attracted to fat. First of all that statement was blatantly sexist because women are attracted as well, but the point is, do these whiners not want us to be? The way I see it, I'm more attracted to fat girls physically, but what I look for is their personality. If you have a fat girl with the personality of a trout and a 110 lb girl who can pay rent, make me laugh, snuggle with me and is a total sweetheart to my family, guess who I'm going out with? Now if you have both a thin girl and a fat girl with awesome personalities that can get along with friends and family, that's where I would pick the fat girl because of the physical attraction. If fat women don't want men to be attracted to fat...how are they ever going to meet a man? A non F/A would have to look around the fact you're fat, is that what you want, someone embarrassed or having to overlook something about you? Eh....I'm gonna stop here before I really go off.

Ok, I've ranted and raved long enough....time to go get ready for the day at *checks watch* 3:45 PM????? sheesh


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## Tooz (Jun 27, 2008)

KHayes666 said:


> Tooz - We know you looked for the fart porn, don't lie!



HAHA. You got me. I spend my days searching for fart porn.


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## largenlovely (Jun 27, 2008)

what i've gleaned from the posts so far is repitition of: if a woman decided to become immobile while involved in a feeder/feedee relationship, then she must not be making a rational choice. Therefore she is not in her right mind and is more or less victimized. Which i think is a very unfair judgement. 

Also, we're talking about extremes of feederism here folks. As i mentioned in the other post, it is possible to incorporate feederism into your sex life without becoming what some deem a "victim". Fanatasy is not 24/7 for everyone..or even most people. Though it might be for some people...and that's...OK lol 

Also, even though men may fantasize about certain things, it doesn't necessarily mean that they would want them acted out in reality. I don't know why we should hold that against them. As a number of people mentioned, it's really not under our control what we fantasize about. If you're in love with each other, you should be able to share fantasies and discuss them. You decide which ones will make you both happy and which ones you throw out the window. 

I understand that some may be unhappy that a man is turned on by something about your body that you consider "gross" or "disgusting" but in all honestly...it's more *your* issue than his in a lot of instances. A lot of fat women just aren't comfortable with their bodies ..and they DO find their certain parts gross or disgusting. As far as unwanted pain, well that's a different issue altogether. If a man loves you, then he's not going to want you in constant pain...which is what Phil wrote about.


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## goofy girl (Jun 27, 2008)

KHayes666 said:


> Ok...I just got myself a bottle of pepsi so I'm caffinated and ready to go. I've looked back at the previous pages so I've decided to respond.....and because I'm cranky due to the thunderstorm waking me up too early, I'm going to be very blunt.
> 
> Ripley - We know you hate men, why on earth would you post a poll detailing the "disgusting, painful" aspects of what most F/A's enjoy when people may not find them disgusting. What you did was basically create a poll where people have to confess to being more or less "sick" or "weird"?
> 
> *snip*



First of all..who is "WE"?? Speak only for yourself-and I doubt that you know what's happening in anyone else's head. Secondly, she did not ask only the men, women are also free to respond and have responded. Thirdly, she did it for the same reasons that everyone else posts their threads...to open the topic up for discussion.


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## KHayes666 (Jun 27, 2008)

goofy girl said:


> First of all..who is "WE"?? Speak only for yourself-and I doubt that you know what's happening in anyone else's head. Secondly, she did not ask only the men, women are also free to respond and have responded. Thirdly, she did it for the same reasons that everyone else posts their threads...to open the topic up for discussion.



I told you I'm not pulling any punches, and opening up talk of discussion over "disgusting and painful" acts people may enjoy, is setting up a bear trap.


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## goofy girl (Jun 27, 2008)

KHayes666 said:


> I told you I'm not pulling any punches, and opening up talk of discussion over "disgusting and painful" acts people may enjoy, is setting up a bear trap.



Nobody is required to respond.


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## JoyJoy (Jun 27, 2008)

Webmaster said:


> No need to play victim.


 Acknowledging that your limited exchanges with someone have left you with the feeling of dislike toward you is not "playing the victim", it's simply stating the truth as you see it. Misconceptions between two people are often alleviated with effective communication. 



Webmaster said:


> My concern is your obvious distrust or fear of men that comes out in many of your posts. To then go and ask leading questions in a poll simply seems to serve to solidify your already formed opinion that men, and especially FAs, are demented folks with evil fantasies and thus to be avoided just emphasizes that.


 I can say this because I know ripley well, and I mean no disrespect to you, Conrad, but I think it is very unfair to berate her.and is similar to jumping on someone else for expressing their fantasies. Yes, she has issues, but posting about them here is her way of trying to get others to help her work through them and understand themand I personally think this thread could become a great way to do so. Shes not sitting in some corner muttering about those horrible FAs, and I can attest that she has no agenda here, other than examining her experiences and hoping to find some understanding of what she has, up to this point, viewed as negative. Isn't this how we learn about each other? By talking things out? Avoiding touchy issues certainly isn't going to make the problems go away.

 


Webmaster said:


> In general:
> 
> Fantasies and reality are totally different. You cannot conclude from fantasies that a person is in real-life (i.e. the non-sexual situations that take up most of our time). The old "my fantasies are okay, but yours are not" approach is inappropriate. Moralizing over other people's fantasies is inappropriate.
> 
> A much more productive approach would be to marvel at the wonderful fact that nature has made it so that there are both fat people, and those who seek and desire them. Play it right, and it is a match made in heaven.





Webmaster said:


> I think there is a huge difference between "I AM aroused" and "I CAN BE aroused." Just about everyone can be aroused by things that are either politically incorrect, frowned upon, judged and so on. So a poll like this automatically raises red flags to me. I cannot see the outcome as anything other than, "Ewwww...!! Those slimy demented FAs are into THAT?!!? Gross. Humiliating. Cruel. Evil." Hence, given that *FA fantasies are generally attacked and nuked*, a leading poll seems like shooting fish in a barrel. And no, Ripley, it doesn't mean I hate you. But I do wonder what legitimate reason you might have to ask.


 It concerns me that it is accepted and encouraged for FAs to share their fantasies, yet when the subjects of those fantasies express discomfort or a lack of understanding, they are basically told to sit down and shut up. Im a huge supporter of the concept that communication leads to greater understanding, and it is often things that go unsaid that create the misconceptions. Ive said it before in other threads on other topics, but it applies here as well.its all in the delivery. There are many instances on Dimensions in which someone has been blasted for expressing their fantasies...that is indisputable. From where I sit, though, in the majority of these cases, it hasn't been the fantasy itself that has been attacked, but the method of expression, the Fantasy to Concern thread being a perfect example. 

 For me personally, I love being admiredbut if a man approaches me with comments that make me feel like hes not seeing me as a person, but as an object to use for his own sexual gratification and nothing more, my reaction is generally not going to be a positive one. As a personal example: currently I have a serious problem with my feet swelling, to the point that they are constantly huge and bloated, they are uncomfortable most of the time, and they got this way after a significant weight gain. This bothers me a great deal, not just because of the health/discomfort aspect of it, but also because of vanity  I liked that my feet and ankles were once shapely. Ive talked about this with a few people, all FAs. One reaction I got from someone I am very close to was Im sorry that your feet have been bothering you, but I have to confess that I love the way they look now.  He said it not just for his own gratification, although he did make it clear that it was a turn-on, but he was also trying to help me feel better about it. Conversely, Ive had conversations with men who made it clear that my discomfort was not of concern to them, they just loved that I have fat, puffy feet, and when I expressed a desire to lose some weight to possibly help with this issue, they expressed disappointment. Think I felt like a piece of meat after talking to them? You bet I did. 

 I realize that expression of fantasy or sexual attraction isnt always going to involve two people who care about each other, especially in this type of setting. I think that it's very easy for the FAs to take what they see on the screen and react, forgetting or just not taking into account that there are living, breathing people involved. I know that Dimensions was initially meant for men to have a place that allows complete freedom of expression of fantasy and desire, but its not one-sided now. We have both sides of the coin, and we have to learn how to relate to each other effectively if its going to continue to thrive. I hope more FAs are willing to contribute in meaningful ways here so that we can find some common understanding of these issues.

Perhaps the choice of words for the title and poll are unfortunate, but Id wager that many people automatically use those descriptors for these thingsits very possible that putting them out there and using this thread to discuss them could change many peoples views and take the sting out of those words.


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## KHayes666 (Jun 27, 2008)

goofy girl said:


> Nobody is required to respond.



Yeah....because some of which are terrified of being ramrodded by other people if they admit to having "disgusting or painful" fantasizes and attractions.

Imagine if I had considerable pull and reputation to post a poll along the lines of "What complete fat ass are you attracted to?" in a non-bbw forum or group, who would respond to that with the implifications that you're different than everyone else and or embarrassed to be attracted to that?


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## Blockierer (Jun 27, 2008)

MisterGuy said:


> Okay, I'll bite. I'm somewhat aroused by the idea of dating someone that is shockingly fat to my friends. And a component of what's titillating about it is their disapproval/incomprehension and an accompanying bit of shame on my part. I guess the taboo aspect of it or something, not sure. Not a huge part of my fantasy life, but a component. None of the rest of the stuff in the survey, though.



Sometimes I have the same fantasy. I think I am a fat-admiration-exhibitionist.  
I am a little bit aroused and amused :shocked: when people figure out that I have a preference for fat women but I am not ashamed. 
Maybe that's the reason why I love to post pics of me on fat-related websites.   
Who knows who will see my pic? 
 :happy:


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## largenlovely (Jun 27, 2008)

I think there are also instances where a person claims they want to understand, but they really don't listen to what the other is saying (or even what THEY are really saying)...they only want to hear themselves talk and try to convince the other why they are wrong. Which also happens a lot around here. I know you try to be an understanding person Joy, but not everyone is in that mindset. 



JoyJoy said:


> It concerns me that it is accepted and encouraged for FAs to share their fantasies, yet when the subjects of those fantasies express discomfort or a lack of understanding, they are basically told to sit down and shut up. Im a huge supporter of the concept that communication leads to greater understanding, and it is often things that go unsaid that create the misconceptions.


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## JoyJoy (Jun 27, 2008)

largenlovely said:


> I think there are also instances where a person claims they want to understand, but they really don't listen to what the other is saying (or even what THEY are really saying)...they only want to hear themselves talk and try to convince the other why they are wrong. Which also happens a lot around here. I know you try to be an understanding person Joy, but not everyone is in that mindset.


 This is very true, Melissa, but again....not talking about it isn't going to changing anything. Even if understanding isn't reached, at least, when approached with maturity, people can sometimes get to an "agree to disagree" dynamic....or at least have a better insight into the other side and food for thought. Often, moral judgments come through misconception or fear of an unknown. What better way to get past that than to talk it out (even if the discussion gets heated from time to time)?


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## missy_blue_eyez (Jun 27, 2008)

Why cant this thread just go back to being about what it was about...see now, people are going to be reluctant to post because its turning into something else. Again if you dont like whats going to be written on here dont look! You dont have too. This is whats wrong with Dims just lately, that freedom of speech which we all so thought we prided ourselves on as a community is evaporating very quickly! 

Let the thread be what it was intended to be...please, I was really looking forward to the responses from people. 

And please dont anyone take offence to the above, none is intended, before anyone feels insulted or offended......

That is all


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## snuggletiger (Jun 27, 2008)

I agree with Joy, unless people talk about what they feel and what they are thinking, then it becomes to easy to misinterpet what someone is saying, or judge them by blanket statements. Even after talking folks will probably be in their original mindsets but at least they can come away from the dialogue knowing something different, maybe learning something.


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## largenlovely (Jun 27, 2008)

oh yeah i definitely agree that it's best to discuss things rather than leave them alone. I also think this is a fear of unknown type deal-e-o too. Which is why i posted the thread in defense of feederism. I was coming from the same place and it also took me a while to understand the things i'm now "preaching" lol. I always tried to keep an open mind though. I think the thing that is most frustrating is when someone is flat out against seeing your viewpoint and throwing out stereotypes that aren't necessarily true, as truths, without having even experienced anything to do with it at all.



JoyJoy said:


> This is very true, Melissa, but again....not talking about it isn't going to changing anything. Even if understanding isn't reached, at least, when approached with maturity, people can sometimes get to an "agree to disagree" dynamic....or at least have a better insight into the other side and food for thought. Often, moral judgments come through misconception or fear of an unknown. What better way to get past that than to talk it out (even if the discussion gets heated from time to time)?


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## D_A_Bunny (Jun 27, 2008)

Here is my 2 cents.

1. NOT all FAs are hardcore feeders who want to abuse a partner into immobility and pain.

2. Most FAs feel guilt for their preferences and only fantasize about some of their true desires.

3. When a fat person who dislikes the negatives of their fatness, spends alot of time with a kind FA, they usually end up accepting or even embracing the very things that they used to hate. It is because they learn to see things through the eyes of another.

4. Most of the "things" that turn on the majority of FAs that some consider disturbing are quite innocent and happen anyway with a fat person, ie. enjoying their food, weight gain (not to immobility), too tight for certain places, making a car squeak, breaking a chair, burping, farting, being lazy, clothes too tight or busting out of them, etc.

5. Most men, not just FAs objectify women, hence the reason we call them "dogs" (saying this with love, since I am married to one, and he is the one that pointed this out last night while we were discussing this very thread). Men objectify women, good or bad. Most women do not want to be objectified. What a strange and lovely world we live in.

6. I believe that if the average FA had a chance, they would say "Don't hate me because I like your fat". 

7. On a personal note, I read the same threads that everyone else here does and it surprises me sometimes the different reactions that each thread evokes. I sometimes think that maybe I have read the post wrong, because I did not see the egregious error the prior poster had made to warrant such a strong reaction from the next poster. Sometimes though, when a bunch of people say the same thing, it makes me wonder if maybe I am just viewing it differently. And then there are the times that I am still befuddled and then someone bravely posts and states what I have been thinking, something that "goes against" what the crowd has said. Then I know that it was really just a matter of my own perception and opinion on the matter.
I find a lot of the different opinions quite interesting. It makes me think on the subject and sometimes I alter my own viewpoint or realize that what I already think is my full and true opinion. I do enjoy having the ability to read or not read as I desire and do not want that aspect to change.

8. In general I think that with every "group" there are different levels of people in each. Meaning, there are some hardcore FAs who are into some very specific, possibly negative aspects of being with a fat person, just as there are some people who just want someone with a bit of meat on their bones. However, I have found that the majority of FAs, male and female, who take the time to post to threads are kind and considerate people who are figuring this out or sharing what they already know with the rest of us. Shouldn't it be a safe place for them as well? Maybe I have this opinion because even though I have been with my husband for almost 18 years, I have learned more about his FAness by reading what other FAs here have written. I read and think about hubby and how somethings are just so similar that it HAS to be something in their genetic makeup. And I thank goodness for that every day.

I have no ill will towards anyone on this board and hope that this post will not garner me any ill will from anyone. I am posting this because I can, and because I have been thinking some of these thoughts in general for awhile now.


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## Chimpi (Jun 27, 2008)

I have not read all of the replies to this thread just yet, but I wanted to just put in my input as of right now. In fact, I stopped at the wonderful Dr. P Marshall's post. Not that I have anything against long posts and multiple long posts (from the same or different people), but right this moment today, I'm not too much in a reading mood. Otherwise, excellent posts all-together.

I hope people can take my post at face value.
I want to address the thread title and implications of it as well, but not entirely like some have already said. Yes, I disagree with the word usage, but I only disagree in that I would not use those terms for the thread title or descriptions of each item on the poll choice were I to have made this thread. That is my personal view (obviously ) and I respect ripley's and others' views on the matter (be it similar or different). I do not find farts to be disgusting (only when they are used at me in a manner I do not appreciate... and I recognize that many people feel farting is disgusting), I do not find breaking chairs or not fitting into clothing embarrassing (though I recognize that many others do), I do not always view being out of breath and sweating as struggles (though I recognize that others do), and I don't always view some of the other things as negative things.
To be fair, I do not find embarrassment a very common feeling for me in almost any fashion. Were I to break a chair, I would not be embarrassed. Were I to not fit into clothing, I would be sad (if it was an article of clothing that I enjoyed) or completely indifferent. I also do not find needing medication (for any reason at all) to be negative; I do, however, feel negatively about taking medication (for any reason at all) _for myself_. And lastly I am not ashamed of any of my attractions, anything that gives me arousal, or any "disgusting" habits I may have ("disgusting" in another persons description; E.G. farting, burping, picking my nose, etc..).

I do agree with the statement that how the person [whom happens to be too large for clothing, or totally immobile, or has pain due to walking up stairs, etc...] feels about their own habits or reactions is a big factor. In example, when Erin and I would do major cleaning and rearranging, she would struggle to breathe normally and her face would get very red due to the physical exertion. I never found this attraction, and a bigger 'turn off' of it for me was when it caused her to be grumpy or moody (from the exhaustion). To extend, though, I do not find physical exertion symptoms (being out of breath, sweating, slow walking, etc...) attractive or arousing at any time; nor do I see it as a bad thing that others are aroused by such things.

I do find tight fitting clothing arousing (and therefor voted for the first option). I like the way a fat woman looks in clothing that has obviously been a part of her past and can no longer wear it normally or comfortably. I feel that it attractively accentuates the curves and fatness of the person, and thus am attracted to that factor. In extension, I am also attracted to partners increasing their weight. One reason the tight clothing is arousing to me (I recognize that not all people that find this arousing would be aroused for the same reason) is because it implies that the person has gained weight. That is arousing to me.
I also find not being able to fit into doorways (as canadianfeeder introduced into this thread) arousing/sexy, as well as not fitting properly in a car seat, or in other types of furniture or areas of life (material, not pertaining to sanctions of life itself).
Also, to further that, I do not find it arousing when the clothing is so tight that it makes them look smaller. Again, I emphasize that it implies weight gain (and thus a larger body). When the clothing makes the visual perception to be of a smaller body, then it becomes not arousing.
On the same item, I do not find breaking chairs or other furniture arousing. I find it a fact of life that furniture is not made more sturdy. 

I also find total immobility arousing, for the same reason that I just mentioned above (and I continue to recognize that not all people that find this arousing will be aroused for the same reason): it implies (and is a fact) that the person has gained a large amount of weight. To be even more specific, though, I am attracted to women _that happen to be so fat_ that it renders them physically unable to perform normally. It's the size that is arousing to me. It is not the fact that she may be in pain, or that she may be very lazy and cannot move, or that she cannot do "simple" activities such as bathing or going to the bathroom or anything else... It is merely the size of the female for me.
Also, to elaborate, I do not find immobility arousing when it pertains to someone that is physically handicapped due to reasons other than because she is just very fat. And, yet again, I do not see it as a bad thing that others are aroused by such things.
On another note, and to continue what others have introduced, I would not necessarily any of those things that give me arousal to be arousing if the person found it very embarrassing, negative, disgusting, or painful. In terms of the size of the person, it is a fact and will always remain a fact that I will be attracted and aroused by her size, but I will be concerned for her well being if she feels it to be bad. (See ed's post for a more refined and detailed reasoning... wish I could give you reputation, ed)

..... How's that for hypocritical? I am not in the mood to read long replies, but there I go and write one. :doh:


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## ripley (Jun 27, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> I'm kinda sorta glad you started this thread Rip. I'm on the list of people who are a little salty about your choice of words, otherwise I think this has been a good discussion so far.




Regarding my word choice:

I chose those words ON PURPOSE. Because I believe that the hint that these things might be taboo or disgusting is a great part of what about it turns them on.

From naughty to nasty through total gross out, a lot of people are thrilled by these sorts of aspects of sexual/sexualized things. I have my own things that other people would find repugnant, and I'm okay with that, and okay with them calling my "things" nasty.

I never once said that the people who like the things in my poll are any lesser or that they themselves are disgusting for liking something that thrills them _because_ it's disgusting. 





Webmaster said:


> No need to play victim.



I'm not playing the victim, nor do I consider myself one. YOU are the one who brought up our...personal relationship in your first post, by saying "and no, this doesn't mean I hate you ripley." I was simply responding to that. I don't assume you hate me, but I'm very aware that you dislike me. Might as well put it on the table. It explains a lot, I think.





Webmaster said:


> My concern is your obvious distrust or fear of men that comes out in many of your posts. To then go and ask leading questions in a poll simply seems to serve to solidify your already formed opinion that men, and especially FAs, are demented folks with evil fantasies and thus to be avoided just emphasizes that.



I love men. I have many many male friends from dims...some of them very dear to me. Some of them have had fantasies that I don't get on board with. I don't judge them for it, I let them talk about it if they want to. I wish some of them would come forward and back me up, but I understand if they don't wish to expose themselves or align themselves with me.

Please don't ascribe motives to me. I don't have solidified opinions about men or FAs. I approach each person, male or female, on their own merits. 

I have no ulterior motive to garner data on FAs towards some evil scheme. A very vocal feeder on the boards approached me in chat a couple of weeks ago, and although it was obvious to me that he had a lot of pent-up anger (and some not so pent-up, lol) I really enjoyed the chance to talk to him about how we're all fitting in here. 

One thing he said really stuck with me. He said that "it's OUR PLACE [meaning dimensions]" and that he thought that total segregation of feeders/the Weight Board from non-feeders was the way to go. I responded that it's all of our places. This poll is my attempt (clumsy though it has proved to have been) to understand, and to maybe, hopefully, get us all in a room and try to hash some of this out and come to an understanding.



Webmaster said:


> In general:
> 
> Fantasies and reality are totally different. You cannot conclude from fantasies that a person is in real-life (i.e. the non-sexual situations that take up most of our time). The old "my fantasies are okay, but yours are not" approach is inappropriate. Moralizing over other people's fantasies is inappropriate.



I have not nor am moralizing. It is a given to me that fantasies are not reality. I'm not sure what causes you to say that as if I hold that view. But you seem keen to read a lot into my posts, and there is not much I can do about that if you're intent on it.



largenlovely said:


> I think there are also instances where a person claims they want to understand, but they really don't listen to what the other is saying (or even what THEY are really saying)...they only want to hear themselves talk and try to convince the other why they are wrong. Which also happens a lot around here. I know you try to be an understanding person Joy, but not everyone is in that mindset.



I do want to understand. I've said it a LOT in this thread. 


I'll flat out say it: I apologize for my word choices. I understand that they are offensive to some, and to some cast a "bad" light on things that some might be attracted to. It wasn't my intent. I hope we can move beyond the choice of words and how much of a man-hating bitch I am. I would like to think that some good could still be salvaged from this thread. 

I didn't know that there were men who found women eating a lot sexually arousing. I love to eat, and since I've been here eating scenarios have entered my fantasies. It feels powerful to me that someone else would get as much or more pleasure from my eating as I do. I don't know how that makes me fit in, as I don't self-identify as a feedee and I do not purposefully gain weight and am not aroused by weight gain. But just because I personally do not have those fantasies does not mean that people can cast me in the role of "hater."


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## Miklosanin (Jun 27, 2008)

Aside from the first option, the other listings are actually a major, major turnOFF for me. When I dated (in the lame, high school sense) a SSBBW years ago, the hygiene issues and physical conditioning really turned me off to her. I worried about her health and well-being too much to ever possibly enjoy that. I wanted her to be happy with her weight, but her health and sometimes odor freaked me out so bad I was at once disgusted and worried. She wanted to lose weight desperately, so I encouraged it, which was very counter-intuitive for my sexual wiring, but what was I to do? The whole situation was a mess, she never wanted to have sex because she was ashamed of herself, and she didn't believe when I told her I thought she was very attractive and that she didn't need to be thin, just healthy. Very sad, the whole thing. It makes me fear ever getting into a relationship with another SSBBW. 

Things like 'not fitting' basically went in the clothes department, which was hot but I really see no issue with that  And there was the time she broke that IKEA chair just after we assmbled it, but really it would have probably broken if I'd sat on it too  Of course the time we went skiing and she couldn't fit into any of the boots was just depressing, she was so ashamed of herself and I was sad she wasn't able to go skiing, which we'd talked about for a year. She's gained so much weight since we broke up, I worry so much for her well-being.

Anyway, I hope I said nothing insensitive here.


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## largenlovely (Jun 27, 2008)

Ripley i know you...and know ya relatively well i'd like to think  I know you do want to understand....and ya know i want to help you understand 

Ok, me and the ripster have had a discussion while i was posting this lol. It has led to and interesting idea...

I wonder if some of the problem with feederism is that quite a number of men aren't overly interested in getting to know the women or develop any type of relationship. I know that a lot of the women are bombarded in chat with questions about their weight by strangers..and it makes the women feel totally objectified. I think this stems from a lot of the men just doing a drive by hoping some woman will help get them off..and we all know that happens. I think this may be what helps give the feeders a bad name. I remember when i was single...trying to weed through the guys who wanted to actually talk and get to know me was a real process...a frustrating process. 

I think though, that this is also what a lot of single SKINNY women also go through. Is the guy really wanting to get to know ME? or is he just hoping to get laid and get off? I think a lot of fat women aren't used to the objectification that skinny women go through quite often, or dare i say ever day. My cousin is a very beautiful skinny girl and I've seen her have to deal with this stuff daily. Now am i trying to explain away the objectification? no absolutely not...BUT it is a reality (which i think Dumbassbunny was also trying to say this, forgive me if i'm wrong). 

In conclusion lol....I don't think that as many women would have a problem with feederism if they weren't having to deal with the whole fantasy issue and being bombarded with men questioning them repeatedly in chat about their weight..if they're gaining and what have you....because a lot of these men are really just hoping to get off. I think THAT is the real underlying issue here. Because for most feeders in my experience..in *reality* they're just looking for a woman who is comfortable with their size, doesn't mind having a big ole steak dinner sometimes and will just be happy with themselves and their size. 



ripley said:


> I do want to understand. I've said it a LOT in this thread.


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## ripley (Jun 27, 2008)

largenlovely said:


> Ripley i know you...and know ya relatively well i'd like to think  I know you do want to understand....and ya know i want to help you understand
> 
> Ok, me and the ripster have had a discussion while i was posting this lol. It has led to and interesting idea...
> 
> ...




Thanks Lissa. I love you too. 


I think you're right about it happening to thin women too. The thing is, most guys know that even though the woman's breasts are amazing and arousing that if they look at her chest while she talks and the only thing they say is "Wow your tits are hot" that the woman is most likely not going to give them the time of day. Yet a lot of men who approach me in chat or whatever think it's just fine to say hi and then send 7 comments about how hot my belly is. It's not that they find it hot (I know it's hot, lol) it's that they make very little other effort to carry the conversation. It's frustrating.


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## largenlovely (Jun 27, 2008)

ya know what though...i think if you went into skinny persons chat room and had a pic of a skinny woman as yourself, you'd get a ton of pm's about your body though. (GO DO THIS NOW hahahaha). Wait...i might go do it lol. Waaaay back when i was younger me and my sister stole a pic of this..person. I'm not sure if it was a male or a female, it could've gone either way lol. Anyway, we went into chat and started talking all sexy like and the guys would ask to see a pic. We would send them the pic of this person...out of like probably 12 guys, you know only ONE person said "no thanks" lol...the rest of the guys were all for it. 



ripley said:


> I think you're right about it happening to thin women too. The thing is, most guys know that even though the woman's breasts are amazing and arousing that if they look at her chest while she talks and the only thing they say is "Wow your tits are hot" that the woman is most likely not going to give them the time of day. Yet a lot of men who approach me in chat or whatever think it's just fine to say hi and then send 7 comments about how hot my belly is. It's not that they find it hot (I know it's hot, lol) it's that they make very little other effort to carry the conversation. It's frustrating.


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## ripley (Jun 27, 2008)

largenlovely said:


> ya know what though...i think if you went into skinny persons chat room and had a pic of a skinny woman as yourself, you'd get a ton of pm's about your body though. (GO DO THIS NOW hahahaha). Wait...i might go do it lol. Waaaay back when i was younger me and my sister stole a pic of this..person. I'm not sure if it was a male or a female, it could've gone either way lol. Anyway, we went into chat and started talking all sexy like and they guys would ask to see a pic. We would send them the pic of this person...out of like probably 12 guys, you know only ONE person said "no thanks" lol...the rest of the guys were all for it.



Oh yeah, I know! Chat rooms sometimes seem to be very anything-goes a lot of the time. Maybe that's part of my frustration, because I've only ever met FAs online, save for a couple of occasions.


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## furious styles (Jun 27, 2008)

Rip, I think people misunderstood your tone because of 

a. when it was made
b. some of the wording
c. perceived ideas about your intentions

They should read your posts _in_ it (unbiased if possible), not just the first one. Anyway,

I'm for this thread, I just feared the damage it could cause. I thought it could only work towards proving the point I've made time and time again about the lack of coexistence in Dimensions. I feel as though it's one site trying to do many things. Size Acceptance and Fat Admiration can coexist in some areas, I mean they both champion certain similar ideals, but the problem is more intrinsic. 

Largely; Fat women do not want to be objectified. Who does? However, the FA needs a safe haven to discuss his sexual thoughts (and lets be honest, in most branches of sex, when isn't it about objectification?). Of course then you get creeps and whatnot, but that happens in literally any community (and rediculously so on the internet, the land of anonymity), I think it's just over-glorified here to make a point. There are plenty of disagreeable, off-putting, and downright disturbing people everywhere on this site and in the world.

Say we have a two circle chart (or venn diagram), one representing size acceptance, and the other representing fat admiration. People in our community probably fall _somewhere_ on the chart. Perhaps they fall right in the dead center, where both circles cross over into a shaded area. Perhaps it's a little further away, right on the border of where the circles are shaded together. Maybe it's all the way on the polar opposite end from the other circle. It's difficult for people from both ends to co-exist, but ultimately in such a closely banded community, they're forced to. This creates our strife.

I don't think anyone is wrong here. There have been some ridiculous posts and accusations made, but in general most people have a valid point :

Example : plenty of FAs love _EVERYTHING_ about fat chicks. That includes the huffing and puffing and the possible chair breakage and the tight clothing and everything else. Are they wrong for that? _I_ don't think so. However, you can't expect someone to like, in turn, everything about themselves. No one does. Especially not things they were taught to fear and hate. So it's fair for them not to like that. That's where you get personal, in relationships maybe the girl can learn to accept that the guy likes it and say "hey, why not?", _OR_ the guy could learn that it just really makes her uncomfortable, and to stifle his desires. Not that hard to do. All it takes is a little patience from both sides.

Valid points. That's the problem though, when both parties have valid points, there's no easy resolution. I think that the FA community has gone knee-jerk recently because the more they see this, the more they feel that their circle is being pushed away from the site. They're seeing Dimensions in '09 as :

OP : Hey guys, I saw this adorable fat girl today walking past when I was waiting out side of class. She was huffing and puffing a bit because she was pretty big and it was kind of hot. Sorry if that makes me weird or something ...

Reply : You piece of shit! Sorry?! Sorry doesn't cut it. How dare you objectify her and take PLEASURE from her STRUGGLE! DISGUSTING.

... etc. 

Obvious hyperbole but I'm trying to illustrate the knee-jerk.

I guess what I'm really trying to illustrate is the conflict. Two sides that are both right, for their own reasons. They're generally accepting and coexistence is usually possible. However there's certain issues where seeing eye to eye really just ain't happening. Add that to the fact that both are equipped with unfortunate people that generally stir the pot by being SO one sided, and it leads to conflicts.

_oof .. the long post i promised wouldn't come_


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## ripley (Jun 27, 2008)

mfdoom said:


> Rip, I think people misunderstood your tone because of
> 
> a. when it was made
> b. some of the wording
> ...



Thank you for your understanding, and your awesome post.


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## MisticalMisty (Jun 27, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> First, I'm not so sure that I agree with a blanket statement about our weight being our responsibility. There are many possible medical and/or psychological conditions that could determine weight, and whether we gain or lose.
> 
> But I think it's beside the point, anyway. Even if my weight is 100% my responsibility, I get to choose what I am and am not comfortable with. Like Nancy, I wouldn't be at all OK with my husband being turned on by conditions that are painful for me. I wouldn't be able to control my discomfort any more than he would be able to control his excitement (if that turned him on). To that end, I thought that Nancy's comparison was an apt one. She wasn't suggesting that either condition would be his fault. She was relating the two in terms of emotional discomfort.



I can see your point..but hopefully you would have established a line of communication with your husband or sig other to let him know that it was bothersome. 



NancyGirl74 said:


> Misty, I had this great, long, well thought out response...and then I accidentally deleted it! :doh: Because I can't be bothered rewriting it all I'm keeping this one short and to the point.
> 
> I know some people choose to be fat and that is fine. I also know that what I choose to eat contributes to my size. However, even if I dieted every day for the rest of my life I'd never be thin. I was simply not meant to be. That being said, I never once chose to have knees that hardly support me while walking up stairs. I never chose to have nearly constant lower back pain or sore, bloated feet. I certainly never chose to have high blood pressure that struggles to be maintained and may very well be shortening my life span. I never chose to have these fat related issues and if someone took pleasure in them...well, yeah it would bother me because they upset me greatly and deeply at times.
> 
> I have no issue with people liking what they like but if I had a boyfriend who told me he was turned on by the very things he knew I found upsetting about being fat then yes I would be hurt and angry. Turning the tables on him to prove a point might be mean of me but maybe he'll see where I'm coming from. *Maybe he'll see that his finding joy in the things that physically and emotionally hurt me is frankly a little mean on his part as well.*



 I completely disagree with the bolded part Nancy. We can't help what we are attracted to or what gets our desires going. It's not like that guy would set out to be attracted to your struggles, etc. I'm sure if he cared for you it would be emotional turmoil for him to be attracted to the struggles of someone he loves.

I actually had a similar discussion with a guy I was seeing. I'm into BDSM and verbal humiliation is one of my loves. I loved to be called things that many women on this site would have a heart attack if they were called them. The guy that I was seeing really struggled with the fact that he enjoyed calling me those things...even though they brought both of us pleasure. I'm sure if I had said at any moment that it bothered me..he would have stopped.

I think you just have to be open and honest with the person you're going to be with at the very beginning.


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## largenlovely (Jun 27, 2008)

well i think it's possible to meet great guys online...i know i did (contrary to what some people believe lol) but the weeding out process can be hard. There are some guys who solely get on here just to get off...it can't be helped or stopped. Though, i think if women weren't subjected to that soooo much, then maybe they wouldn't be as scared of feederism. When they're subjected to a guy hoping to get off, all they hear is their what is going on in fantasy land in a guys head..which may BE scary lol When in reality, that same person wouldn't expect the things he's bringing up in the chatroom of a partner and mate. Reality can be totally different than what a lot of these guys are expressing online when trying to get their jollies.



ripley said:


> Oh yeah, I know! Chat rooms sometimes seem to be very anything-goes a lot of the time. Maybe that's part of my frustration, because I've only ever met FAs online, save for a couple of occasions.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jun 27, 2008)

ripley said:


> Thanks Lissa. I love you too.
> 
> 
> I think you're right about it happening to thin women too. The thing is, most guys know that even though the woman's breasts are amazing and arousing that if they look at her chest while she talks and the only thing they say is "Wow your tits are hot" that the woman is most likely not going to give them the time of day. Yet a lot of men who approach me in chat or whatever think it's just fine to say hi and then send 7 comments about how hot my belly is. It's not that they find it hot (I know it's hot, lol) it's that they make very little other effort to carry the conversation. It's frustrating.



I find these guys incredibly, totally, overwhelmingly, sickeningly......BORING

OMFG........

I have met two guys that dig the fat chicks in reality (one from Dims and one from another fat chick site in e-world)....both were very polite, nice, considerate and sweet young men. But then again....they came across that way online....and hence, why I took the chance to meet them. Wow....now I have to wonder, if those two were, in reality, what they seem to be online.....are those boring, stupid jerks really like that in reality? No wonder they have to come to chat to beg for sexy time....:doh:


Lots of lonely people that have trouble dealing with other people in reality are on the net Ripley....and it's not just a "Dim's problem" IMO....you get those same asshats in yahoo lounges and on other forums that have nothing to do with SA.


Also, let's not forget the previously mentioned "disconnect" from reality when they see a computer monitor.....they cannot conceive the idea that all those words on a screen....they are being typed by a real person. Sure...it might be a person that is lying to you....but it's still a real person SOMEWHERE. 
I don't understand the disconnect....when someone calls you on the phone...you can't see them yet you still KNOW that a real live person is on the other end of the communication device...you DON'T HAVE TO SEE THEM TO KNOW THEY ARE THERE!!
why is this concept so hard for some to crossover to the net?


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## ripley (Jun 27, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I find these guys incredibly, totally, overwhelmingly, sickeningly......BORING
> 
> OMFG........
> 
> ...



Oh hell yeah, I know...Yahoo chat is worse, IMO.

The thing is...I like fantasy, role playing, whatever...I just don't want to have some stranger feeling entitled to "use" me that way.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jun 27, 2008)

ripley said:


> Oh hell yeah, I know...Yahoo chat is worse, IMO.
> 
> The thing is...I like fantasy, role playing, whatever...*I just don't want to have some stranger feeling entitled to "use" me that way*.




Exactly....and that is how a lot of these people come across when they approach you online...like they are just needing to take a shit and you are a public toilet. :doh:


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## Fascinita (Jun 27, 2008)

olwen said:


> I still maintain the abused adult has the ability to walk away whether she knows it or not.



In terms of where the responsibility lies to do something to get out of an abusive situation, there's no question that one must take care of oneself. This is a fact of existence.

In terms of ability, again existentially/philosophically, of course the able-bodied adult of sound mind has the ability to get up and walk away at any moment.

If your mom was being abused, I'm pretty sure she thought about how to end the abuse all the time. I say this as someone who grew up in a similar situation. Later, I myself was involved briefly in an abusive relationship. I can tell you, it's not something that happens entirely with your consent, even if you have given your consent to be in a relationship with your abuser. 

Decisions to leave or stay with an abuser are seldom "all or nothing" decisions. They can come down to, "How much better off would I really be out there on my own," depending on your resources and your situation. I can tell you that a highly educated, highly independent person likely never plans to find herself in a position of dependency on an abuser. And yet it happens. For many "victims," it's a slow process--something like gaslighting--where you slowly realize that very person you trusted has used that trust to get you in a position where they can take advantage of you at will--in other words, to victimize you. (Let's call it that, out of a nod toward the fact that, much as we may hate victimhood, victimization does occur, often exactly because we as a culture are so bent on upholding individual self-sufficiency that we seem willing to believe that, if I get hit, it _really is_ my fault for being around to be hit in the first place, or for not getting out of the way). 

In your own family's case, what were your mom's choices? To leave in the middle of the night with her kids? To move in with a relative likely not exactly in a position to provide lasting shelter? To go live in a shelter? I don't know for sure what kind of a support network your mom had. My mom, also in an abusive marriage, couldn't leave my dad because she had no one who might help her get re-established somewhere with three kids in tow. She worked full-time in factories, often taking whatever overtime came her way. But she knew well that her single paycheck wasn't enough to take care of a household full of kids. It's one thing to say that anyone has the ability to leave. But when you actually stop to think about it, the reality is that that ability is always tempered by all kinds of real factors. Seldom is anyone in a position to cut off all contact with an abuser with whom one has often woven strong dependencies. I think most people would acknowledge the relative difficulties of severing longstanding ties with partners and/or family. It's just painful. 

Like your mom, my mom finally left thirty years later, when her kids were all grown up. I don't believe that it's because she finally "got it" then. I believe she "got it" all along, but was too alone and unsure of herself to leave when we (and she) were much younger and vulnerable. I used to look down on her for waiting so long to "stand up" for herself, but now I recognize what must have been her terror and her vulnerability to find the person she most trusted, loved and depended on in the world turning on her. I recognize as well her ultimate loyalty to her children--if it was a choice between us starving and having to endure my father's drunken fits (what a choice!), she chose the lesser evil-- and to a man she loved and hoped might still redeem himself. Stupid? Maybe to some. Not to me. Not anymore. I call it human now. I also recognize that part of what happened was that my mom's fear of having to be solely responsible for herself and her children paralyzed her. I won't lie. It would've been great if somehow she'd found a way... We--my siblings and I--were just miserable in our drunken, abusive household. If my mom had found a safe way out, somehow, I think we would all--including my dad--have been better off. But that's like wishing on rainbows, you know? It might've been better if she'd had the education and the resources to be able to get up and leave her abuser and take her kids with her and not had to blink. But she did her best courageously with what she had. You can't blot out reality with one stroke of a pen. I don't think of my mom as a victim. I think of her as a survivor.

You may say that in spite of all that one still has an ultimate responsibility to oneself, but I hardly think one goes into relationships with this level of moral/existential assuredness. One does one's best to be loving, where there is love. Often that means sacrificing self-sufficiency for the sake of one's partner, one's children, even one's relationship.

It does no good to take a higher moral stance and proclaim that, because we ultimately must accept existential responsibility, we can't acknowledge with compassion that to fail to exist completely in a vacuum of one makes us *more* human, not less so.

Unconditional acceptance of anyone's right to their fantasy doesn't have to hinge on denial that sometimes fantasies are acted out inappropriately, with painful consequences. I don't need to close myself off from reality completely in order to acknowledge anyone's right to fantasize about whatever they enjoy fantasizing about. If what we seek is to allow the room for fantasies to exist, I would think it would be very beneficial to acknowledge--calmly and in a spirit of community--to discuss the full spectrum of possibilities tied to said fantasies. Or are we all forced to agree that no one ever tries to act out their fantasies in manipulative, self-serving, abusive ways? And do we all have to acquiesce that everyone who "consents" to a relationship with an abuser (even if he didn't know at the start that she was going to be abusive) has no right later to ask for help in dealing with the abuse? Situations (and people) change. Life is open-ended and surprising. All of it calls for flexibility, understanding and compassion, I think.


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## Fascinita (Jun 28, 2008)

KHayes666 said:


> Ripley - We know you hate men



I want to make it clear that you don't speak for me on this. I don't "know" much about ripley, other than she writes intelligent posts that speak to her curiosity about all things fat and FA. In fact, it was my impression that ripley liked men very much and can be quite flirtatious, from the dozens of her comments I've read over the past year. But in any case, I would venture that none of us, unless we have ongoing relationships/friendships IRL, "know" what the others of us who post here really love or really hate. Hell, I've known my sister 30-something years, and there is tons of stuff I don't "know" about her.

So, no. Count me out of the "we" that knows what you claim "we" know, above.


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## Ted Michael Morgan (Jun 28, 2008)

I Would love watching a lover gain a hundred pounds. I can think of former lovers with whom I would have enjoyed this journey. But I have slept with only one large woman. She was fantastic and I never forgot her!


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## vardon_grip (Jun 28, 2008)

Totmacher said:


> _exeunt_
> Y'know, that's the _Plural_ of exit. I wish people here could be anywhere near as mature as you're suggesting. *sigh*



Exits is the plural of exit

Exeunt is a stage direction indicating that two or more actors leave the stage. Exeunt is Latin for They go out.


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## KHayes666 (Jun 28, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> I want to make it clear that you don't speak for me on this. I don't "know" much about ripley, other than she writes intelligent posts that speak to her curiosity about all things fat and FA. In fact, it was my impression that ripley liked men very much and can be quite flirtatious, from the dozens of her comments I've read over the past year. But in any case, I would venture that none of us, unless we have ongoing relationships/friendships IRL, "know" what the others of us who post here really love or really hate. Hell, I've known my sister 30-something years, and there is tons of stuff I don't "know" about her.
> 
> So, no. Count me out of the "we" that knows what you claim "we" know, above.



I said I was tired and cranky when i originally wrote it, so for now I apologize to Ripley and those who were offended.

I'm truly sorry and next time I won't turn the computer on after thunderstorms wake me up.


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## olwen (Jun 28, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> In terms of where the responsibility lies to do something to get out of an abusive situation, there's no question that one must take care of oneself. This is a fact of existence.
> 
> In terms of ability, again existentially/philosophically, of course the able-bodied adult of sound mind has the ability to get up and walk away at any moment.
> 
> ...




My point is not that walking away from an abusive relationship isn't easy. I did say it was complicated. I did say I do understand my mother's reasons for staying. I just didn't spell them out. Doesn't mean I'm not still angry about it. I just didn't say why - there are all kinds of reasons why. But in the interest of full disclosure. My mother is a college educated woman who at the time worked in a police precinct and who has close family members and friends who would have helped her out. She had many resources at her disposal and many avenues to leave that situation. I do understand that this is not an easy issue for people. But I still maintain that the abused still needs to know and understand that the abuser isn't just going to come to his/her senses and just stop. It doesn't work that way, which is why the abused needs to be able to make the leap and take the difficult road if they want to get out of that situation. I do understand how hard it can be if you have children to think about. I do realize that's why she waited till we were all grown. I just didn't say that. I never said walking away was easy. What I'm saying is it's possible _despite _the difficulty. Just because a thing is difficult doesn't mean we should always shy away from it. I'm not saying this because I think it's the moral high ground. I'm saying it because to me it makes the most sense _logically _to face difficulties rather than avoid them. That's just the kind of person I am. It's like, if x works and y doesn't work as well, then why keep doing y?

So I've said before - acting out a fantasy is completely different from having a fantasy. Sometimes fantasies are acted out with bad consequences. Sometimes bad things happen. That's life. ....I'm just not so sure why the concept of personal responsibility seems to make you uncomfortable. So we may not agree on the degree to which it is applied, but nonetheless, the fact remains that we are all responsible for how we behave, for what we do, and for how we react to people, things, and situations. This doesn't mean you don't seek out help or not try to help others. This is the definition of personal responsibility that I have in my head. I'm not so sure how this translates into - looking out for number one. 

Of course someone who ends up in an abusive relationship has the right to ask for help - that's when the realizing they have the power to do something about it part comes in. That takes the form of whatever it takes the form of. "Walking away" means whatever is necessary and appropriate to that situation. The abused still has to take the first step, even if it's a baby step. Taking that step and thinking about taking that step are two different things. 

We're basically saying the same thing, just differently.


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## Friday (Jun 28, 2008)

Tooz said:


> I guess this is where I get hung up: it shouldn't matter if you approve of it or not, and you've made it very clear in several threads that you don't. I guess if you don't like it, you shouldn't look...but that's just me.
> 
> Kinda like how I get sucked into Hyde Park sometimes. I KNOW I shouldn't look, and most of the time I don't. I think this is an important thing to keep in mind on an _internet forum_.



So...if I don't like child abuse I just shouldn't look? The idea that just because someone is an adult means that they can't be abused or should be able to just walk away from abuse is naive and ill informed to say the least. The idea that just because _some_ people like some things, they should be acceptable to all is equally foolish. If I like to be tickled until I wet myself does that mean that people who don't like to be tickled should just learn not to be so uptight about other people who don't enjoy it being involuntarily tickled because someone is getting their jollies from it? Do I get to label everyone that disagrees with me as a fitb-hater?

To me it all breaks down to three pretty simple rules. 1) If it makes all people involved happy then go kids go. The nosies can fuck right the hell off. 2) If *at any time* one participant's happiness is provided by another participant's unhappiness, it's time to stop. The fact that the happy participant is in control of the situation has nothing to do with it. The fact that the unhappy participant enjoyed the whatever up until this point *has nothing to do with it*. No one, and I mean *no one* has a right *ever* to gain their happiness from another's unhappiness. 3) The fact that a person is mentally, emotionally or physically incapable of stopping a person from doing something that is making them unhappy does not make it OK for that person to continue to abuse their happiness.

That freako pizza guy that had held that 14 year old kid for oh, 5 or 6 years while he sexually abused him and brainwashed him into thinking no one cared...the same kid that couldn't act to save himself until he saw Mr Freak bring in another young victim to be abused and then acted to save them both...does that mean only the younger boy was a victim and that the adult perp should not be charged with crimes against the older boy? I mean come on, the kid was in school, he had been exposed to all the ads and info put out there to help abused kids help themselves. Does the fact that he couldn't/didn't go to the authorities make him complicit in his own abuse? Just because you turn 18 doesn't make you suddenly immune to being manipulated and abused.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jun 28, 2008)

Omfg....what a time to be "out of rep"....thank you for your voice of reason post Friday...indeed. I thank you as a person that has been in abusive relationships. I thank you as person that grew up in an abusive home. I thank you as a person who can be quite angry at my mom for not "being stronger" and stopping the abuse. I thank you as a person who knows how hard it is to admit I made some bad decisions that affect my own life. I thank you as person that knows anger and disgust at others sometimes. I thank you as person that has been the subject of anger and disgust sometimes.

And I thank you as one human being to another.... you are so right in what you just posted.

None of this makes it okay for one human to abuse another or take advantage...and the "person in control"...if he or she doesn't know the limit or when to stop...what "control" do they really have?


***and I mean this for ALL types of relationships...not just relationships that involve fat/fat people. Any type of abusive relationship is wrong...and abusive relationships ARE possible from feeders and FAs...just like they are possible from those that are not.


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## bigsexy920 (Jun 28, 2008)

I see a lot of mention of the words used. I think the words used are pretty enlightening - most people are saying they are negative in some way or viewed in a negative way. Yet people are responding that they like it and are aroused or attracted to it - in the way it is described in the poll. 

I dont think Rip should have used other words - to me this is very informative.


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## butch (Jun 28, 2008)

Hmm, wonder how many fat people checked any of the boxes other than the 'other' or 'none of the above' choices? I checked one box in the poll, the first one, but here's the twist-I checked it about my own fat body, not other people's fat bodies.

When I was a kid, I used to do this weird play acting thing which involved wearing very tight clothes. I had this one shirt, a hand me down from a friend of the family, which had those pearl snap buttons. I'd try to tuck it in as tight as possible, and sometimes I even used a pillow for stuffing, and part of my role playing involved me making those buttons snap open, as if I was so large I was busting out of my clothing. This was something I enjoyed doing when I was under the age of 10, well before puberty, and so the fact that I still enjoy similar things today is something I think is really out of my control, and I have no idea how it got implanted in my brain.

In general, I enjoy some 'embarrassing' things about being fat. Besides the tight clothing, I enjoy being 'the center of attention' because of my size (although sometimes I don't, especially if the stares go beyond that to overt anti-fat comments by strangers), I enjoy the idea of being too big for certain spaces, and I enjoy the 'fat talk' like nicknames and observations about how big I am, how big certain parts of me are, etc. A lot of this is stuff I can be ambivalent/ashamed about when I'm just describing what gets me aroused, but I would not be ambivalent about it at all if I was with someone who enjoyed it, too.

As far as other fat bodies are concerned, I do like things that emphasize the size of my partner, but these things are not required, and they are a huge turn off if my partner finds them upsetting in any way. Knowing someone else is not turned on, but instead is troubled by something that signifies how fat they, would make it impossible for me to enjoy that too tight blouse or whatnot, because part of the turn on is knowing the other person likes some aspect of it too.

Probably TMI, but oh well.


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## Haunted (Jun 28, 2008)

This is a great thread I'v been wanting to reply. But haven't been able to figure out how to organize my thoughts and i don't want to take up an entire page as i try to comment to other posters 

I have a post called OMG her size which is the nice happy beautiful side of Fat admiration and what i love about My Girl, But like alot of other Fa's i have thoughts and feelings and fantasies that Make me feel like a *monster * I think it was Blue eyes who said " I like it But i Shouldn't" I feel this way alot. 

I wouldn't say i get off on the struggle But i do get turned on seeing how her size effects how she does things, Like putting on her shoes. i don't think i necessarily enjoy watching her struggle, I do get turned on by the idea that she is so big that she can't Bend that way. and I love to help her when i can.

for ex. we where on a road trip a couple weeks ago we rented a mustang convertible not the best size friendly car But it's summer and we thought it would be fun she fit in the car with no problem though it was arousing to see she didn't have much more room, she prefers to drive barefoot and when we hit the road we put her sneakers in the trunk, when we made a bathroom stop i got out to get them out and while i was rummaging around the trunk she mentioned to her daughter "I bet he puts my shoes on for me" Which of course i did and elicited a bunch of giggles from the back seat I know it's not easy for her to do it herself But I love taking care of her and pampering her.

Is it possible that that a small part of the feeding fetish has to do with wanting to care for her and wanting to pamper and spoil your lover.

I love to watch her eat doesn't matter what doesn't matter how much, i love to see her indulge and i believe part of this comes from my mom she was always bigger not huge but a larger woman and she hated it, all my memories where of her dieting lol so i think part of my fetish is born of watching my mom always diet and deny herself things she really wanted. I don't want Misty to ever deny herself anything. 

we have discussed feeding and weight gain, and we are both interested in it she loves to eat and i love to see her eat she loves to be full she loves the feeling of a stuffed tummy she loves to feel completely satisfied, she loves her body, she says i am the reason she loves being fat she loves how soft her body is, She finds it very hot to compare herself to me she loves how small i look next to her (and I'm not small i'm 6 foot and 200 lbs) and she says she is interested in gaining more. this is where i start to scare myself this is where i feel like a *MONSTER* I have fantasies where i stuff her to her max where she is so full she has trouble breathing hardly able to move and she wants more she's asking to be stuffed she wants to get bigger much bigger, these are fantasies we'v discussed she gets into them just as much as i do, and on occasion we talk about her becoming immobile we talk about some very extreme sizes for her to achieve, Of course this is where fantasy and reality separate but the fact that i have these thoughts scares me from time to time because we do play around with these fantasies and others.

another example that fits a scenario is whenever we go out i always make sure to get a table not a booth or in the least a half booth with a chair for her, she mentioned this last night as we talked about this thread a couple weeks ago we went to a little grill at a hotel we where staying at the only seating options where the bar with fixed stools (definitely Not) or a booth First thing out of my mouth was lets find someplace else but she claims she saw a spark of excitement in me at the idea of her squeezing into one of the booths, which i suppose i was excited to see my big gorgeous baby Squeeze her huge body into the booth but i hate to see her uncomfortable or embarrassed I think she secretly gets off on toying with me like this lol she said that the way i looked at her that night was different than the way i've ever looked at her and she liked it i kept staring at her breasts resting on the table at the table pressing into her soft tummy i didn't even realize i was doing it. 

speaking of not realizing things i do, she says i am always rubbing her tummy, while we're standing in line, at a restaurant or sitting on the couch visiting with her parents lol i have another angle but i think i want to start it as a separate post wish i had gotten on this thread at the beginning i have so many opinions and emotions to do with this


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## Haunted (Jun 28, 2008)

I realized that this next topic may require some special attention at least for me it does so i wanted to separate it I'm almost tempted to start a separate thread about it.

another thing that troubles me, is at one point during our last visit she told me that she's see's people stare at us and she gets the feeling that they are thinking "what is he Doing with her" as if to say whats the tall badass biker doing with that huge fat chick and i suppose i take a little pleasure in the shock factor, someone posted something about being a Fat admiration exhibitionist and i'd have to agree. It bothered me that she would think poorly enough of herself that she feels this way when people stare. but it occurs to me this is a process in self acceptance for both of us. It took me along time to accept that i was an fa because of society but places online especially dimensions really allowed me to accept and embrace being an fa and not to mention Misty she was the one that through open the closet door lol. And as far as her accepting herself as a SSBBW she has a post on my thread "OMG Her Size" about her struggles accepting herself. 

Because the general population views fat as bad we have our own hangups about it. She is amazed that i don't try to hide when we are in public, She says i actually put out a very confident proud to be seen with her kind of vibe which i am Now, sure people look at her, and in my naive way i assume they are noticing how beautiful she is or maybe they are admiring the vast amount of cleavage she is displaying, when in reality they may be trying to figure out why the thin guy appears to be so in love with the fat girl, I really enjoy the woman who see us and they get that look of admiration on there face they see as and they can just see the true love we share, and for the people that are baffled and can't figure out how the fat chick got so lucky to get her a guy like me (Misty's words not mine Im actually incredibly modest) well to those people i say Screw You I'm The lucky one she is the most beautiful loving sexy woman i have ever Met and you only wish you could experience a love like this. Maybe it's because i'm an attention whore in general who really knows


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## Fascinita (Jun 28, 2008)

olwen said:


> I'm just not so sure why the concept of personal responsibility seems to make you uncomfortable.



You've missed the mark with this comment, unfortunately. For the record, as to personal responsibility making me personally uncomfortable, olwen, this is a case where what "seems" is definitely not what "is."

It's not about personal responsibility making me uncomfortable. (If you knew me, you'd know that nothing could be further from the facts.) My point was not a reactive one based solely on my own experiences and stemming solely from my fears (the things that make me uncomfortable). Rather, it was based on a lifetime of reflection on personal experiences and those of the people around me, including the many people I've served as an educator. 

In any case, I was making a point not for abandoning personal responsibility--I hope that's obvious in my post above--but for _tempering_ that with flexible attitudes that adjust for the real facts of every situation, case by case. In other words, I was calling for an acknowledgment that there is an existential axiom that is just as valid as "Each is responsible for herself"--that is that "We are all responsible for each other." The idea of community hinges on this axiom. Whether we're comfortable with it, or not, humans seem to need community just as much as individuality, for survival. This makes for a picture of moral responsibility that is much more complicated than "Save yourself." We weave networks and dependencies with each other. In fact, I believe our "individualities" are more tied up in community than we are aware of or like to acknowledge. 

I do appreciate your response, on the other hand. 

Thanks for letting me clear these points up. 

PS - I am stating all of this in terms as clear and dispassionate as I can muster, being careful to explicitly avow that these are _my_ reflections and beliefs. Since we are holding a public debate (to whatever extent), where reason and rhetoric are traditionally expected, I'd appreciate it if we could refrain from pop-psychologizing each other and from claiming knowledge about the other that we in fact don't have--such as your statement that personal responsibility makes me uncomfortable. These kinds of claims of instant knowledge of the other often (in my opinion) are simply _defensive tactics_ that purport to logic by association with science while in fact being based on emotional reactions. I know we've all done it--it's the internet. But...


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## olwen (Jun 28, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> You've missed the mark with this comment, unfortunately. I do appreciate your response, on the other hand. It's not about personal responsibility making me uncomfortable. (If you knew me, you'd know that nothing could be further from the facts.) My point was not a reactive one based solely on my own experiences and stemming solely from my fears. Rather, it was based on a lifetime of reflection on personal experiences and those of the people around me, including the many people I've served as an educator.
> 
> In any case, I was making a point not for abandoning personal responsibility--I hope that's obvious in my post above--but for _tempering_ that with flexible attitudes that adjust for the real facts of every situation, case by case. In other words, I was calling for an acknowledgment that there is an existential axiom that is just as valid as "Each is responsible for herself"--that is that "We are all responsible for each other." The idea of community hinges on this axiom. Whether we're comfortable with it, or not, humans seem to need community just as much as individuality, for survival.
> 
> So, for the record, as to personal responsibility making me personally uncomfortable, olwen, this is a case where what "seems" is definitely not what "is." Thanks for letting me clear that up.



Yes, thank you for being clear. I started to say something to the effect of we should look out for each other, but I just couldn't seem to fit it in there. So that I am clear, I feel like - in a perfect world - if we all have the ability to be responsible for ourselves then it follows (at least to me) that hurting others wouldn't happen. In a perfect world that is.


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## Tina (Jun 28, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Omfg....what a time to be "out of rep"....thank you for your voice of reason post Friday...


I got her for both of us, GEF. Isn't she marvelous? :wubu:


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## ripley (Jun 28, 2008)

You know, I told myself I wasn't going to address the word choice I used in this poll any more, because I had explained why I used those words and also apologized for them. I have been thinking about this, however, and after reading some posts in the "Fantasy to Concern" thread (two responded to below) that dealt directly with this poll, I've come to a better understanding of why they were so offensive to some of the posters in this thread.

I guess a lot of it was that, personally, I know there is a difference between being aroused by something and the reality of the actual thing. A woman with a rape fantasy would be shocked, appalled, and not turned on a bit by actual rape. I don't judge her for having the fantasy. I don't judge the FAs in this poll who are turned on by the fantasy of any of these things in the poll.

As for the word "disgusting"...well, I already explained that I used that word because I believe the perception of it being disgusting is part of the allure to those attracted to those things. I don't think that that means a respondent is sick or weird. I personally find sushi disgusting, and yet don't have a problem with those who choose to partake. Nor am I amassing data so I can dislike those of Asian descent or other nationalities who eat it. But I will still think it's gross to eat raw fish. 








Dr. P Marshall said:


> That's the reason so many people had trouble with the wording of the questions in that poll. Because to answer the actual question you had to accept an aspect of it that might not actually be true for you as an FA. For example, I answered the first two categories, but I do not enjoy anyone's embarrassment or struggle. But the things listed next to those words were things that I did get turned on by. See? That's why everyone said the wording was out of hand judgmental, because to say you like to see someone pop a button off a blouse meant you had to answer that you enjoyed their embarrassment. For some both things may be present, but for others, it's just the actual popped button or broken chair or whatever. But we still had to say we liked the embarrassment because it was in the question. It would have had far fewer responses if only people who liked those things and liked the pain, struggle, etc answered.



How would you have sorted them for a poll? Categorized them? I'm not trying to fight, I'm really curious as to what wording would have been pleasing rather than offensive.



Dr. P Marshall said:


> As for these other shenanigans, what ever happened to gradations and combinations and different extremes of things? When did an interest in feederism automatically mean that you want to see someone immobile? Or degraded? There are so many permutations and combinations that can fall just under the heading of a feeder/feedee relationship alone and that's before you get to all the other fetishes. And then there's still all the different questions of embarrassment or pain etc, and being turned on by it or not and then feeling guilty about it or not and on and on. But somehow all the different shades of fetishism are getting lost and suddenly it's FA only or menace to your fellow humans.



That's part of why I made the poll. To illustrate the gradations. It's something that I want to grasp, and put into practice...that not every weight gain enthusiast is a man who wants to see his partner wallowing in her own filth and on oxygen and having heart attacks and still fed until she dies, while he enjoys her humiliation and death.




It is a poll on an internet forum. It is not supposed to illustrate the be-all and end-all of human sexual experience. It's not supposed to be "what turns you on in a loving relationship when there are hearts and flowers and wine and Barry White on the stereo and you're just role-playing and you know he wants you to be healthy at every size." It is not meant to be all encompassing.

I know, personally, that things that might turn you (universal you) on in erotic literature, porn, or whatever can be things you don't want to or physically cannot participate in in real life.


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## Dr. P Marshall (Jun 29, 2008)

ripley said:


> How would you have sorted them for a poll? Categorized them? I'm not trying to fight, I'm really curious as to what wording would have been pleasing rather than offensive.
> 
> 
> 
> That's part of why I made the poll. To illustrate the gradations. It's something that I want to grasp, and put into practice...that not every weight gain enthusiast is a man who wants to see his partner wallowing in her own filth and on oxygen and having heart attacks and still fed until she dies, while he enjoys her humiliation and death.



Hey Ripley, 

I know you're not trying to fight. I'm not either. I understand, first of all, that this is an internet poll and that just making them and sorting out your categories and all of that is not always that easy. So, I wasn't trying to nitpick to nitpick. But what I actually do think gets lost by the way the categories were set up is the distinction between FAs who do find, let's say, a tight fit in a theater seat sexy and they just do so because of the visual of it, or that it reminds them of a partner's size versus those FAs who like that AND like the embarrassment as well. I guess I mean, maybe I would have listed the items(stuck in chair, breaking furniture, etc) as the first question and then asked about embarrassment as a sub question or as a repeat of the first question but with the added term. And then the same for Pain, struggle, etc. Because some people do like both, but some people do not like the "emotional" component, merely the physical sight of something. 

That also answers the gradations question to some degree as well. There are gradations between finding something sexy on it's own and finding it sexy because you are aroused by the pain, or struggle, or what have you. And in the other thread I was specifically addressing feederism which is not covered by your poll specifically. Immobility is one extreme of it, but there are so many variations on feederism that I don't think anything short of a write in only poll would ever cover it. Also, with feederism in particular, there are at least two different "angles" the feeder can be looking at it from. They can be dominant or submissive. One is about control of the feedee in general (and again, there are many grades along the way) but the other can be about doting on or even serving the feedee. Indulging them if you will. So I guess that was what I was thinking about when I was speaking in the other thread. Although it would apply to other fetishes too. I know the debate about what is a fetish rages on here, but I do think that something like the act of squashing can be considered a fetishistic act. But some people will prefer to do it only occasionally and some need it every time. To me those are degrees of the same fetish. But they are very different experiences for the partner of the person with the fetish. Or a feeder who just wants it once in a while versus someone who has to use it every time. I personally would still consider all of these FAs fetishists, but the degree makes for very different relationship experiences.

I hope I answered your questions in a way that was helpful, if not, I will be glad to elaborate further.


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## ripley (Jun 29, 2008)

That was a good answer.  But I gotta say, I think they only allow 10 options per poll.  I guess it comes down to if you're attracted to embarrassing/negative/disgusting things, and if the embarrassment/negativity/disgustingness itself is part of the attraction.


These are the categories:


I'm aroused by embarrassing aspects (not fitting, breaking things)
I'm aroused by struggles (being out of breath, sweating)
I'm aroused by disgusting things (hygiene issues, farting, etc)
I'm aroused by painful things (not being able to walk far/well, that she's on medications, etc)
I'm aroused by total immobility.
I'm aroused by none of the above.
Other. Explain if you want.

It says "embarrassing aspects"...not the other's embarrassment. 
It says "disgusting things"...not your disgust.
It says "painful things"...not the other's pain.

Perhaps that's nit-picky of me, but everyone else has been nit-picking my word usage, so I figure it's fair game, lol.




I sorta wanted to keep from labeling _anything_ in the poll with the "feeder" label, because I am aware that not all FAs are feeders and even the ones who are...well, there are gradations like you said.


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## Aireman (Jun 29, 2008)

I checked none of the above 'cause if my S.O. gained weight it wouldn't be a negative thing. I would hope; that if I ever found the woman of my dreams; any weight gain would be mutually arousing because if she indulged, or was just finally relaxed enough in our relationship that she could put on a few pounds and not stress cause she would know how positive I would find it. And then tease me to the point of distraction with her tighter clothes or how her belly was just this much closer to the steering wheel of the car or how her bosom was popping out the top of her bra.:happy:


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## CleverBomb (Jun 29, 2008)

Friday said:


> So...if I don't like child abuse I just shouldn't look? The idea that just because someone is an adult means that they can't be abused or should be able to just walk away from abuse is naive and ill informed to say the least.
> ...
> To me it all breaks down to three pretty simple rules. 1) If it makes all people involved happy then go kids go. The nosies can fuck right the hell off. 2) If *at any time* one participant's happiness is provided by another participant's unhappiness, it's time to stop. The fact that the happy participant is in control of the situation has nothing to do with it. The fact that the unhappy participant enjoyed the whatever up until this point *has nothing to do with it*. No one, and I mean *no one* has a right *ever* to gain their happiness from another's unhappiness. 3) The fact that a person is mentally, emotionally or physically incapable of stopping a person from doing something that is making them unhappy does not make it OK for that person to continue to abuse their happiness.
> ...
> Just because you turn 18 doesn't make you suddenly immune to being manipulated and abused.


Allow me to add to the chorus of people who don't get to rep you for this one but really, really, wanted to.

-Rusty


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## ripley (Jun 29, 2008)

So if your SO did gain weight, none of those things would arouse you? None of those things if you saw them in porn or read them on the story forum would arouse you?


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## Dr. P Marshall (Jun 29, 2008)

ripley said:


> It says "embarrassing aspects"...not the other's embarrassment.
> It says "disgusting things"...not your disgust.
> It says "painful things"...not the other's pain.
> 
> Perhaps that's nit-picky of me, but everyone else has been nit-picking my word usage, so I figure it's fair game, lol.



And honestly, I think that's why so many of us answered anyway. But I think we wanted to clarify about the wording so that people didn't come away with the impression that the overwhelming majority of FAs like to see fat people embarrassed, when really maybe the majority just likes the way a fat person's body moves when they shift a lot in a seat or something like that.
Oh, and I completely understand leaving feederism to its own polls. That one always gets a thread derailed.


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## ripley (Jun 29, 2008)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> And honestly, I think that's why so many of us answered anyway. But I think we wanted to clarify about the wording so that people didn't come away with the impression that the overwhelming majority of FAs like to see fat people embarrassed, when really maybe the majority just likes the way a fat person's body moves when they shift a lot in a seat or something like that.
> Oh, and I completely understand leaving feederism to its own polls. That one always gets a thread derailed.



And I'm very thankful for the ones who did answer. 

See, I guess I left too much of my own views in the language...and people assume they know what those views are (judgmental, exclusionary), but they really are my own views on how it is to be a fat woman in those situations. Sometimes embarrassing, disgusting, painful, or a struggle. I didn't think how that would appear, really, to admirers. (And no, before 20 people jump on me, I don't think that's how it is for every fat woman, and that's not even how it is for me most of the time). 

I see where the division is, and my intent was never to make you or anyone else feel monstrous for liking any of these things. To me, popping a button in public is going to be embarrassing. If I had a boyfriend and he was just horndoggy at the time and didn't sympathize, I'd be upset. But later when we were alone and he said "that really turned me on" I might roll my eyes but I'd probably kiss him and take advantage of it.


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## CleverBomb (Jun 29, 2008)

ripley said:


> So if your SO did gain weight, none of those things would arouse you? None of those things if you saw them in porn or read them on the story forum would arouse you?


No, actually, they wouldn't.
Should they?
If so, why?

-Rusty


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## Dr. P Marshall (Jun 29, 2008)

ripley said:


> I see where the division is, and my intent was never to make you or anyone else feel monstrous for liking any of these things.



I didn't think you were trying to make us feel like monsters. But I admit, I knew what you meant and I still thought "Oh, so many people might take the results of this the wrong way because those terms are in the questions." I wasn't really feeling that defensive, but I think sometimes here at Dims, one small misinterpretation ends up setting us all back and so that's why I also wanted to clarify in my answer about my distinctions. And for the record, I don't think I'm better than an FA who does find the emotional aspects exciting,I'm just different. But I could see where from the BBW and BHM perspective it might be more comforting to know that most of us don't find embarrassment or pain arousing.


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## liz (di-va) (Jun 29, 2008)

My apologies if I'm repeating already-saids. Also--it felt clear to me that Rip was just looking for information, note. Given that: 

My main beef with the language choices, other a nerdy/scientific sense that they inhibit accurate data-gathering, is just that *I* don't think *I'm" disgusting/embarrassing when I do these things (wheeze, toddle, whatever). I'm NOT saying they are wholly positive experiences for me, in fact sometimes really not, but _speakin totally for myself here_ (!!!!) I can't navigate this stuff on a daily basis, or anywhere, without using different language choices. Not everybody is the same, needs the same stuff to get through the day, but I jump in pretty actively when I hear myself using those kinds of words about myself/what I'm doing. I _have_ to leap in and disconnect those wires. Otherwise I don't get *through* those experiences. I have a real...shame thing. Any time I hear myself using language that makes me feel ashamed I tend to come marauding to my or other people's aid. It just never helps me, feelin bad, feeling ashamed. Never helps me finish toddling up the stairs or getting through any of it.

This probably sounds hopelessly PC, I know.

So from this POV, somehow all that makes it a little easier to take the idea of somebody finding any of the milder stuff on the list positive/a turn on (in a non shame-based way on their end), since it's just part of me, but only as long as they're not obsessively up all in it (like anything). I mean...I'll always wheeze/toddle some in this life, even if I lose weight. Don't have to worry about it going away.


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## ripley (Jun 29, 2008)

CleverBomb said:


> No, actually, they wouldn't.
> Should they?
> If so, why?
> 
> -Rusty



Shush you, I was talking to Aireman.  



Dr. P Marshall said:


> I didn't think you were trying to make us feel like monsters. But I admit, I knew what you meant and I still thought "Oh, so many people might take the results of this the wrong way because those terms are in the questions." I wasn't really feeling that defensive, but I think sometimes here at Dims, one small misinterpretation ends up setting us all back and so that's why I also wanted to clarify in my answer about my distinctions. And for the record, I don't think I'm better than an FA who does find the emotional aspects exciting,I'm just different. But I could see where from the BBW and BHM perspective it might be more comforting to know that most of us don't find embarrassment or pain arousing.




I'm glad. You know I think you're the bees knees and I'd hate it if you thought I thought badly of you with a silly poll.

And yeah...Dimensions threads often seem to go the way of snarking, blowing up, generalizing, and character assassination. It's sad that it has to be that way. Especially the defensiveness...we're all in this together, and our each others greatest allies.


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## ripley (Jun 29, 2008)

liz (di-va) said:


> My apologies if I'm repeating already-saids. Also--it felt clear to me that Rip was just looking for information, note. Given that:
> 
> My main beef with the language choices, other a nerdy/scientific sense that they inhibit accurate data-gathering, is just that *I* don't think *I'm" disgusting/embarrassing when I do these things (wheeze, toddle, whatever). I'm NOT saying they are wholly positive experiences for me, in fact sometimes really not, but _speakin totally for myself here_ (!!!!) I can't navigate this stuff on a daily basis, or anywhere, without using different language choices. Not everybody is the same, needs the same stuff to get through the day, but I jump in pretty actively when I hear myself using those kinds of words about myself/what I'm doing. I _have_ to leap in and disconnect those wires. Otherwise I don't get *through* those experiences. I have a real...shame thing. Any time I hear myself using language that makes me feel ashamed I tend to come marauding to my or other people's aid. It just never helps me, feelin bad, feeling ashamed. Never helps me finish toddling up the stairs or getting through any of it.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I battle the shame monster too. That's where I think the FAs that do enjoy button popping or huffing up stairs or us wanting to be dropped off at the door...I think that they could be a real asset in helping people like you and me get over that shame hump. Gives you something else to think of...like, instead of "Oh my God that's so embarrassing" you can think "I bet this gave JoeBob a boner, we're gonna have some good sex tonight!" lol


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## CleverBomb (Jun 29, 2008)

ripley said:


> I'm glad. You know I think you're the bees knees and I'd hate it if you thought I thought badly of you with a silly poll.
> 
> And yeah...Dimensions threads often seem to go the way of snarking, blowing up, generalizing, and character assassination. It's sad that it has to be that way. Especially the defensiveness...we're all in this together, and our each others greatest allies.


It's ok. I remember when you used to have more trouble than this in making polls...


-Rusty


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## BigBeautifulMe (Jun 29, 2008)

hahahahaha. Those were the days!  <3


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## liz (di-va) (Jun 29, 2008)

ripley said:


> Yeah, I battle the shame monster too. That's where I think the FAs that do enjoy button popping or huffing up stairs or us wanting to be dropped off at the door...Gives you something else to think of...like, instead of "Oh my God that's so embarrassing" you can think "I bet this gave JoeBob a boner, we're gonna have some good sex tonight!" lol



Yeah, I agree! I mean...that's been a long-time benefit of hanging around Dims and other FA-ly things, knowing that if nothing else there is more than one way of seein this stuff. Just diffusing that idea. And (to repeat myself) - language. I just can't use those words about myself anymore. I wouldn't use them about somebody else--so why would I about myself? Who else is helping me climb stairs but *me*? I'm not going to make it harder. Look at what a fucking great job I'm doing, getting up stairs at twice the average person's weight. Nothing embarrassing about it. HRmph.

I think the shame monster is a vain thing, full of air. Easier to pop than he wants you to think. 

ETA: that is...when I say I have a "shame thing" I mean that I am committed to rubbing it out! NOt that you ever can completely, but it's been a big part of my adult life. okay. now officially a tangent.


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## Ted Michael Morgan (Jun 29, 2008)

I loved watching my former wife gain perhaps 40-5o pounds. She looked great. I found the change highly erotic, but I would not have wanted her to suffer from immobiility. I adored her.


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## boncertqy003 (Jun 29, 2008)

(1) Nothing that abuses the lady and makes her not confident with hers size
(2) I like the feel and look of a huge belly in my face.
(3) In private I love a regular control squash and when kissed to be devoured and I really appreciate the comfort of being play bitten and engulfed by rolls of flesh!
(4) Nibbled and a heavy elbow resting on me.
====================================

Of course an intellect that compliments that complimets her physical size


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## boncertqy003 (Jun 29, 2008)

(1) Nothing that abuses the lady and makes her not confident with her size
(2) I like the feel and look of a huge belly in my face.
(3) In private I love a regular control squash and when kissed to be devoured and I really appreciate the comfort of being play bitten and engulfed by rolls of flesh!
(4) Nibbled and a heavy elbow resting on me.
====================================

Of course an intellect that compliments that complimets her physical size


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## Webmaster (Jun 29, 2008)

ripley said:


> That's part of why I made the poll. To illustrate the gradations. It's something that I want to grasp, and put into practice...that not every weight gain enthusiast is a man who wants to see his partner wallowing in her own filth and on oxygen and having heart attacks and still fed until she dies, while he enjoys her humiliation and death.



This is moral thought police at its finest. Deciding what fantasies are correct and proper and which ones are not, then vilify whatever one does not agree with to the max and thus paint those who have unauthorized fantasies as evil monsters who enjoy heart attacks and death. 

This is no different from society at large deciding what still passes as acceptable and what is too fat. Let's just do a poll and see where the cut-off between acceptable size and unacceptable fatness is and thus show that not every fat person is a disgusting slob who thinks of nothing but stuffing their face, thus being a drain on society and digging their own grave.

No one here must pass a clean, accepted fantasy act to be part of this community.


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## Tooz (Jun 29, 2008)

Webmaster said:


> This is moral thought police at its finest. Deciding what fantasies are correct and proper and which ones are not, then vilify whatever one does not agree with to the max and thus paint those who have unauthorized fantasies as evil monsters who enjoy heart attacks and death.
> 
> This is no different from society at large deciding what still passes as acceptable and what is too fat. Let's just do a poll and see where the cut-off between acceptable size and unacceptable fatness is and thus show that not every fat person is a disgusting slob who thinks of nothing but stuffing their face, thus being a drain on society and digging their own grave.
> 
> No one here must pass a clean, accepted fantasy act to be part of this community.



Wow, I was seriously saying this exact same thing on the phone to someone Friday night.


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## LillyBBBW (Jun 29, 2008)

ripley said:


> Firstly, struggles and disgusting were two different catagories.
> 
> Secondly, no, Sandie was not right. See my response to her.
> 
> ...



Yes, I read what you said to Sandie and my opinion stands. You said there is no wrong answer unless I view it as such and I do.


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## Fascinita (Jun 29, 2008)

Webmaster said:


> This is moral thought police at its finest. Deciding what fantasies are correct and proper and which ones are not, then vilify whatever one does not agree with to the max and thus paint those who have unauthorized fantasies as evil monsters who enjoy heart attacks and death.
> 
> This is no different from society at large deciding what still passes as acceptable and what is too fat. Let's just do a poll and see where the cut-off between acceptable size and unacceptable fatness is and thus show that not every fat person is a disgusting slob who thinks of nothing but stuffing their face, thus being a drain on society and digging their own grave.
> 
> No one here must pass a clean, accepted fantasy act to be part of this community.



First:

I like that, to a vast extent, this is a place where most everyone is free to express themselves without fear of censorship from above. 

Second:

In response to the dichotomy you draw above:

(DISCLAIMER: In the first paragraph below, I am NOT talking about anything specifically fat-related, or even about erotic fantasies exclusively... only about a general concept of fantasies that involve harm to others... Please read my entire post carefully and considerately before anyone jumps on me...)

I would say that the parallel you try to illustrate is not perfect. The first looks to me to be an instance of morality directed at preserving the social contract. That is, to whatever extent people who fantasize about killing others, for instance, are seen as threatening the foundations of the social order (our social order having been founded on Judeo-Christian value, e.g., "Thou shalt not kill," etc.), these people who fantasize about harm to others are seen as deviating from the norm, as having the potential to follow through with the scenarios drawn out in their fantasies. If I learn my neighbor has fantasies of raping and killing, for example, I am going to find these disturbing, just as you would, I think--you'd worry for your daughter, for your son perhaps, maybe even for your wife and yourself. People who go so far as to trumpet fantasies of harming other are often criminalized, psychopathologized and sometimes even locked away, if they cross the line into _actually_ causing harm to others. This is why expressing extreme fantasies can FEEL so dangerous. How are we who hear these to tell that there is no intention of following through with the fantasy? Well, that is where reason comes in. For instance, this is a discussion board, with a space that has been DESIGNATED for the safe expression of fantasies--PRECISELY BECAUSE the expression of extreme fantasies has traditionally been met with discomfort and alarm. As participants in this board, we recognize that in this particular discussion we're talking about extreme erotic fantasies in which any fantasized harm done to others/befalling others is not necessarily expressed as overtly stemming from the actions of the fantasizer--that is, these may not be fantasies of active harming, so much as of passively enjoying the pain/suffering of others. Further, it goes without saying--although it's been reiterated--that we recognize that, in the spectrum of fantasy, relatively few are so extreme as to cause discomfort to others who come across their expression. In any case, we recognize that the erotic fantasy is NOT an overt fantasy to harm, such as fantasies we find and punish in criminals and psychopaths. We recognize, if we stop to think, that the object of the erotic fantasy is NOT to harm, but to gain pleasure from the fantasy. A fantasy is a fantasy and we cannot equate a fantasy with an act, we cannot equate a fantasy of harm with an act of harm. SO that--you and I can agree--we need not censor fantasies as such. A fantasy never killed anyone. So I believe we should continue to provide a space for expressing even the most extreme fantasies.

(Nothing new claimed here so far, but I want to make certain correlations explicit.)

On the other hand, I want to make a case for not censoring the gut reactions of horror to fantasy, either. I believe these reactions are healthy expressions of fear of the unknown. When we hear that out neighbors fantasizes about killing people, we have an immediate gut reaction of horror. While erotic fantasies are in a different category, when we read the most explicit ones here on Dimensions, they can FEEL just as horrifying and threatening as though they were expressions of actual desires to harm, rather than expressions of eroticism. The reactions that read to you as "stifling" and "thought-policing" are no less natural, it is my belief, than the natural erotic drives of humans. It is our instinct to preserve our safety that produces the reaction of horror and concern. No matter how many times people explain to anyone that fantasies are harmless, illustrating the difference between fantasy and reality, you CAN'T force anyone to abandon their gut-reaction mistrust of the most graphic erotic scenarios, because these are often worded so that they read very similar to the fantasies of psychopaths and criminals. Intellectually, a person may RECOGNIZE that this is not the case. Yet the instinct to self-preservation will produce a reaction of disgust to the graphic descriptions. No one can help a gut reaction to preserve self anymore than one can control what turns him/her on. And while there is room for endless debate about who is right and who should have the last word, the fact is that if you're calling for complete non-censorship, I believe you must also be willing to not censor the expression of concern and fear that arise in response to the most graphic expression of erotic fantasy. These are semantic actions and reactions that relate to our basic drives--both erotic expression and expression of fear. To continue to stand on firm ground, where your anti-censorship stance is concerned, I believe you are obliged to censor neither. What is a home for open expression can quickly turn into a house of cards when people start censoring each other. This is why I would stand with you, Conrad, in calling for tolerance from both sides of this debate. Insisting on tolerance for everyone really must be the best way to ensure it for all, including those whose fantasies are unpopular. I really don't believe ripley is trying to make anyone out to be a monster, I don't believe she has appointed herself the thought police, actively seeking out "wrong" expression to stamp it out. I believe is simply grappling--and calling others in the community to grapple with--the very real issues at the heart of our desires and our expression of desires, and at the heart of our fear and our expression of our fears. This can only be good for us, in the end, because anytime that we examine ourselves we become more aware of ourselves, more intelligent to ourselves, and better able to moderate our knee-jerk reactions and allow space for difference. Dimensions is a precious space where we who have been told we're different by virtue of size or preference for size can find room to be ourselves, to like each other and love each other, and sometimes even to disagree with each other--in other words, to be human. I thank you so much for providing that space and ask that you continue to let us be ourselves here.

One last thing... I'm not sure the parallel holds between people being censored for having fantasies that are labeled disgusting and people being fat and labeled disgusting. I think you're right in the sense that they are both instances of power being exerted to control certain actions and certain groups. But I think each instance has a different mechanism and a different end. I haven't worked out my counter-argument entirely. If you're interested, I will provide it at a later time.


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## KHayes666 (Jun 29, 2008)

Webmaster said:


> This is moral thought police at its finest. Deciding what fantasies are correct and proper and which ones are not, then vilify whatever one does not agree with to the max and thus paint those who have unauthorized fantasies as evil monsters who enjoy heart attacks and death.
> 
> This is no different from society at large deciding what still passes as acceptable and what is too fat. Let's just do a poll and see where the cut-off between acceptable size and unacceptable fatness is and thus show that not every fat person is a disgusting slob who thinks of nothing but stuffing their face, thus being a drain on society and digging their own grave.
> 
> No one here must pass a clean, accepted fantasy act to be part of this community.



While I agree with what you said, there pretty much is an unwritten law of conduct to be accepted on here.

I won't name any names because I'd get reprimanded for doing so, but there is one member going around that is throwing "Omg i want u to get so fat, gain more, more and more" and asking weight related questions left and right.....that type of person is *pardon my french* going to get shit on if he approaches anyone in real life or even in IM"s for that matter.

When someone has risen to enough status where people hang on their every word around here, that's when the wrong people are responsible for members coming and going.

Again, without naming names but I'm sure you know who, there are certain members who have a bad opinion and or vendetta against certain subjects that are supposedly "SIZE ACCEPTANCE" around here and when those people have power, they are going to blatently abuse it in order to get their way.

This kind of poll makes me sick because I have never ever seen anyone openly admit to want to feed someone to death. Even the sickest of sicko's have been a lot more tame than that from what I've viewed in chatrooms, PM boxes and what not. I'm not saying those people don't exist, but when someone makes a poll basically saying "How sick are you people" it is akin to being on trial by the moral police.

Here's where the power rise affects polls like this. Some guy with minimal rep and minimal posts says he likes the certain aspects that are considered "disgusting and painful" the higher ups will look down on him and go "oh well that's typical, what a sicko!" Now if a highly respected member with a reputation through the roof that has met a lot of members in real life admits to having a fetish deemed "sick", the other members of the pecking order are speechless.

I know you're trying to run a fat positive acceptance ship and doing the best you can which I am thankful for, but I will go to my grave saying when the wrong people are allowed to make decisions, its a recipe for disaster.


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## KHayes666 (Jun 29, 2008)

I should post this as a much needed follow up.

I'm not saying the wrong people in charge are bad people per se....but moderators, highly respected board members and pretty much the higher ups should have open opinions on everything if they are to be fair and unjust.

Moderators shouldn't have a bad opinion on things that are heavily discussed in the open. Like if I wasn't into bondage, if I was to somehow become a moderator in a chatroom where bondage is openly discussed, the proper thing for me is to let it slide and ignore it, especially if its in the boundaries of what the room is for.

Again, I know a lot of people around here either by chatroom, web boards or real life and many of them are very nice. I just don't think chat modship, board modship and other highly regarded duties should be left to those with a bad opinion on something.


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## Totmacher (Jun 29, 2008)

There was a time, back in the day, wen mods used to have alts. So when someone was modding it was an anonymous thing and they could be fair intead of having to reconcile their well known persona with their position of power. Not that I think the abuses of power Khayes is alluding to are entirely due to a, " oh, but what would people think?" attitude, but I think it's better than suspecting the alternative.


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## Fascinita (Jun 29, 2008)

KHayes666 said:


> Some guy with minimal rep and minimal posts says he likes the certain aspects that are considered "disgusting and painful" the higher ups will look down on him and go "oh well that's typical, what a sicko!" Now if a highly respected member with a reputation through the roof that has met a lot of members in real life admits to having a fetish deemed "sick", the other members of the pecking order are speechless.



Hey, Hayes, (I like the sound of that )

The one thing I'd ask you to think about, in response to your statement I quote above, is that the handful of people who came forward and admitted to liking or having liked what may be considered by some to be negative aspects of fat, were thanked profusely and warmly for the most part in this thread. The worst you could say is that certain responses expressed still not being able to accept or understand such fantasies/preferences. But it's clear that many more people came forward to thank the brave souls for their honesty. So I'm not seeing the replies of "Sicko!" that you say have been pouring out. So I just wanted to point that out in a polite, friendly way. But I do understand that the wording may have bothered you, if I read you correctly. If that's the case, I wrote a looooong-ass reply above trying to explain why I feel it's important and beneficial to allow for expression of both our erotic desires and of the fears those desires, when expressed, can give rise to in others. I'd be interested in seeing what you think about that. I think we're all sensing that we're talking about what's acceptable and not, trying to find a middle ground... So in the interest of doing that as a community, constructively, I say calm dialogue goes farther than any other approach. Anyway, hope to hear more from you


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## KHayes666 (Jun 29, 2008)

Totmacher said:


> There was a time, back in the day, wen mods used to have alts. So when someone was modding it was an anonymous thing and they could be fair intead of having to reconcile their well known persona with their position of power. Not that I think the abuses of power Khayes is alluding to are entirely due to a, " oh, but what would people think?" attitude, but I think it's better than suspecting the alternative.



They still have alts, but that doesn't help at all other than to cover themselves. Again think about if I was moderating somewhere and I had a bad opinion of something, even if my mod name was an alternate account, that's still ME behind it...my feelings, my soul, my opinions. 

Even if the mods were under an alias, that's still their real feelings, emotions, etc behind the mask so to speak.


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## vardon_grip (Jun 29, 2008)

Ripley: (who mostly comes out at nite...mostly)

Say what you want. Ask what you want.

The rest:

If it isn't you-don't own it.

Why do you care if you are called a freak in what you do? Are you NOT going to do it if you are not accepted? So if you are going to do it anyway, why the hell do you care if what you do is met with approval or not?

Fay'a


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## KHayes666 (Jun 29, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Hey, Hayes, (I like the sound of that )
> 
> The one thing I'd ask you to think about, in response to your statement I quote above, is that the handful of people who came forward and admitted to liking or having liked what may be considered by some to be negative aspects of fat, were thanked profusely and warmly for the most part in this thread. The worst you could say is that certain responses expressed still not being able to accept or understand such fantasies/preferences. But it's clear that many more people came forward to thank the brave souls for their honesty. So I'm not seeing the replies of "Sicko!" that you say have been pouring out. So I just wanted to point that out in a polite, friendly way. But I do understand that the wording may have bothered you, if I read you correctly. If that's the case, I wrote a looooong-ass reply above trying to explain why I feel it's important and beneficial to allow for expression of both our erotic desires and of the fears those desires, when expressed, can give rise to in others. I'd be interested in seeing what you think about that. I think we're all sensing that we're talking about what's acceptable and not, trying to find a middle ground... So in the interest of doing that as a community, constructively, I say calm dialogue goes farther than any other approach. Anyway, thanks for reading



Very good post. I agree that what has been said so far for the most part has been met with positive feelings on the board. I'm just saying for the ones who came out and said to the brave souls "bravo, good job" there are a lot who have bitten their tongue out of respect. 

There should be a middle ground in everything, but sometimes people get really Robespierre like when it comes to that kind of moderation.

I'm all for speaking out about what they like, but in the proper context. For example if a paysite model posts an update saying "OMG, I'm sooo fat now, come see " As much as some of the follow up comments go over the top, they have every right to say what they want. Now if we're on a different forum and someone says "I've put on 20 lbs since my car accident" that's when some people go "your getting fat, do u want to gain more, plz gain more, i love it" and its uncomfortable, that's when the proverbial foot can be put down.


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## Fascinita (Jun 29, 2008)

Thanks for responding, Hayes. I appreciate your willingness to try to see it from both sides. I believe we can all understand each other and work together, as long as we listen to each other in a truly open forum. My position is that both sides, to whatever extent there are "sides" within this community on this issue, should be heard. That takes self-moderation, as you suggest, and a willingness to give the benefit of the doubt rather than jump to censor the other side. 

But I also believe threads like this one, though they can come off as contentious and full of animosity, are actually good for us, to the extent that they allow us to express our desires and fears, and to the extent that they motivate us to really talk to each other and listen to each other. To whatever extent we pass by the opportunity to dialogue in favor of silence, we will have let go an opportunity to become a stronger community and allowed our fears to dictate the course of our future here. But what I see here is lots of people expressing their views, willingness to speak truth to power AND the reciprocal allotment of room for the expression of all persons' truth, no matter how unpopular with higher ups that truth may be. I think we should take stock of that and pat ourselves on the back for it.


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## lostjacket (Jun 29, 2008)

Maybe I'm weird. But I'm more aroused by class and a sense of oppulence then anything else. I love the elegant and glamorous bbw. To throw down some alliteration: A smoldering, sultry seductress if you will. Also, I *love* pantsuits/suit dresses. I think in my mind this tends to portray intelligence (same thing with glasses) it may not always be an accurate picture of a person...but it definitely is something for me to key in on initially. Besides the fact that said girl in question is drop dead gorgeous (Always key). Think Ally McBeal...with one hell of a lot more curvature.

Maybe I've just been stuck in corporate mode/gear for to long...it's only been a year and a half though... So I guess I would fall squarely in the category of none of the above with a little bit of clothes being to small thrown in...(can't mess with awesome) I love the portrayal/image (and actual obviously) intelligence and confidence in conjunction with a woman's lovely and expansive curves.


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## Carl1h (Jun 29, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> you CAN'T force anyone to abandon their gut-reaction mistrust of the most graphic erotic scenarios, because these are often worded so that they read very similar to the fantasies of psychopaths and criminals.
> 
> What is a home for open expression can quickly turn into a house of cards when people start censoring each other. This is why I would stand with you, Conrad, in calling for tolerance from both sides of this debate.



I snipped a lot out, probably should have just left it all out instead of trying to quote any, sorry if you find it unfair.

I agree that tolerance is better than censorship, but you're using a slippery slope argument one way that can as easily be used the other way against you. When the subject of homosexual sex would come up one thing I used to hear a lot was people describing their negative gut reactions to the very idea. The thought of two men having sex disgusts them. They wouldn't want a gay man moving in next door, they wouldn't feel like their children were safe. I think we can agree that we don't want to see people posting that here every time someone says they're gay or any sort of homosexual act is brought up. When people apply their baseless fears to their treatment of homosexuals it is seen, and rightly so, as persecution, not as them being free to express their fears and feelings. I don't think that there would be much defense for someone who posted that they felt that they had to move their family to a new home after that gay couple moved in next door, despite your example of the neighbor with the violent fantasies.

There is no censorship going on here when it comes to people criticizing feeders and extreme FA fantasies. I have seen that criticism crop up in many different threads all over the Dims boards and no one jumps in and censors it. When it comes to thoughtful, accepting dialog about it, that's not so easy to find. It's very easy to stand with the majority opinion and complain that you're being censored, but the truth is that the minority needs protection from you, not the other way around.


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## wrestlingguy (Jun 29, 2008)

Webmaster said:


> Let's just do a poll and see where the cut-off between acceptable size and unacceptable fatness is and thus show that not every fat person is a disgusting slob who thinks of nothing but stuffing their face, thus being a drain on society and digging their own grave



I believe that Disney has already done that with their new film Wall-E, as my friend Indy500Teacher posted in a thread on the Main Board.


I'd like to add to my original post in this thread. The scenarios that I described happened years ago, and I feel that my opinions on what arouses me have changed drastically over the years. So, what I'm saying is that if I posted today as I was about 10 years ago, I might horrify a lot of you with my remarks.

FA dom is a journey, like anything else that involves stages. While I love my wife's fat, it is not the object of my desire today. She is. Point being, for me, if she lost most of her weight, I'd still be in love (& lust). I met Carla about 140 pounds ago. I loved her at the lower weight, and love her today at her present weight.

I think a lot of this arousal is especially found among some of the newer guys here. While it's only a theory, since I speak from personal experience, I think what arouses FA's may change over time. Perhaps we should have 2 separate polls, one for those here less than 3 years, and one for those further along their journey as a FA.


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## ripley (Jun 29, 2008)

Webmaster said:


> This is moral thought police at its finest. Deciding what fantasies are correct and proper and which ones are not, then vilify whatever one does not agree with to the max and thus paint those who have unauthorized fantasies as evil monsters who enjoy heart attacks and death.
> 
> This is no different from society at large deciding what still passes as acceptable and what is too fat. Let's just do a poll and see where the cut-off between acceptable size and unacceptable fatness is and thus show that not every fat person is a disgusting slob who thinks of nothing but stuffing their face, thus being a drain on society and digging their own grave.
> 
> No one here must pass a clean, accepted fantasy act to be part of this community.



When have I told anyone what to think? When have I said that any fantasy is incorrect? When have I vilified anyone? Please show me examples, because I believe these are untruths.

You know what? The only negativity I've seen in this thread is the stuff that has been directed at _*me*_. Not feeders, not holders of any fantasy...and that is why I am STILL glad I made this thread. I've increased my understanding, and opened dialog about stuff that is common but rarely talked about. This poll has a lot of respondents. (Last I looked, over 170.) So obviously I am not the only one who thinks it can have value.


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## KHayes666 (Jun 29, 2008)

ripley said:


> When have I told anyone what to think? When have I said that any fantasy is incorrect? When have I vilified anyone? Please show me examples, because I believe these are untruths.
> 
> You know what? The only negativity I've seen in this thread is the stuff that has been directed at _*me*_. Not feeders, not holders of any fantasy...and that is why I am STILL glad I made this thread. I've increased my understanding, and opened dialog about stuff that is common but rarely talked about. This poll has a lot of respondents. (Last I looked, over 170.) So obviously I am not the only one who thinks it can have value.



For the ninth time, the anger is directed at you because of the way you worded it. If you said "what secret fetish do you prefer" instead of "what disgusting and painful thing are you attracted to" then you wouldn't have gotten (well deserved) criticism. You basically created a bear trap that only people with true guts would admit to enjoying, whether you meant to or not by using the words you did. Next time be more selective


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## ripley (Jun 29, 2008)

My question was for Conrad, but thank you for playing.


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## KHayes666 (Jun 29, 2008)

ripley said:


> My question was for Conrad, but thank you for playing.



Oh boy, i'm going for the high score!

I'll take Sarcasm for 200, Alex!


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## ripley (Jun 29, 2008)

I've explained my word choice many, many times in this thread, said I realize where I went wrong....when you come all exasperated ("for the nth time, ripley! jeez") then you are going to be met with sarcasm.


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## Fascinita (Jun 29, 2008)

Carl1h said:


> I snipped a lot out, probably should have just left it all out instead of trying to quote any, sorry if you find it unfair.
> 
> I agree that tolerance is better than censorship, but you're using a slippery slope argument one way that can as easily be used the other way against you. When the subject of homosexual sex would come up one thing I used to hear a lot was people describing their negative gut reactions to the very idea. The thought of two men having sex disgusts them. They wouldn't want a gay man moving in next door, they wouldn't feel like their children were safe. I think we can agree that we don't want to see people posting that here every time someone says they're gay or any sort of homosexual act is brought up. When people apply their baseless fears to their treatment of homosexuals it is seen, and rightly so, as persecution, not as them being free to express their fears and feelings. I don't think that there would be much defense for someone who posted that they felt that they had to move their family to a new home after that gay couple moved in next door, despite your example of the neighbor with the violent fantasies.



Hey Carl,

To be clear, I was talking about people living next door who might theoretically confess to fantasizing about killing others.

You are talking about gay people.

Clearly these two categories are nowhere near each other. My expressing fear of a neighbor who expresses a fantasy of butchering people IS NOT in the same category as a bigot expressing his homophobia.

Part of my argument hinged, of course, on my assertion that the parallel between repression of sociopathic behaviors and repression of differences are two different mechanisms with different ends (though the repression may often be expressed similarly, and though may have commonalities in "fear of the other"--in one case justified fear, in the other unfounded fear). IF you don't buy my argument--which you clearly don't, given that you've termed it a "slippery slope"--you need to respond in a way that is not merely a restatement of the argument that I was attempting to respond to in the first place (i.e., Conrad's argument.) That is, this is what I'd expect in a public debate such as this one. If I'm wrong about that, please let me know.

But to address your particular example at further length (which I feel is similar to Conrad's "fatphobia" comparison):

I just don't accept that fear of murderous psychopaths is as unfounded as homophobia (or as fatphobia). We have EVERY reason to be afraid of murderous psychopaths, and NONE at all to be afraid of differences in sexual preferences. I hope we can agree that this is true. There is no slippery slope thinking involved in that, is there? The first is a rational fear; the second is completely irrational and invalid. 

We have to open our eyes and know what we're up against. When we use a position of "we can't censor people" to indeed censor some people we have to ask ourselves where this inherent contradiction will lead us and whether we can live with that in the future. What I tried to argue above was that the more we talk in good faith, giving each other the benefit of the doubt until we have reason not to--as a community--the more we can learn about ourselves and about how to interact with each other. People on both sides of this discussion need to interact with each other in a way that is more meaningful than "I can't let you say what you have to say." I think if we reflect on the differences between fantasy and action on one side, and on the mechanisms of rational and irrational fear on the other side--as well as on the implications of censorship on BOTH sides--we will all be able to moderate ourselves and remain calm and rational in our interactions. IF we're coming at this from a position of "You are the enemy and I fear what your words may do to harm me," we will never get anywhere.

I hope that clarifies my position somewhat, as it appears it was not completely lucid previously. Thanks.



> When it comes to thoughtful, accepting dialog about it, that's not so easy to find.



I agree, Carl. But it's up to us to forge that. It's not something that's going to be served to us readymade simply because. We--you and I--have to make every effort to both speak AND listen. Anyone who wants to be heard but not listen is kidding herself that she is promoting dialogue. To say that we need dialogue is a start, but one has to be willing to follow through and to allow the other room to "speak." Don't you think?



> It's very easy to stand with the majority opinion and complain that you're being censored, but the truth is that the minority needs protection from you, not the other way around.



Yeah, well, the minority doesn't need protection from me. I speak for myself only. I am only one person and don't claim to speak for any majority. Nor do you see a "majority" of people here jumping in to agree with anything I say, other than the occasional nod I get from people I know. So this is not about me. And it is certainly not about me being part of any majority. I am taking the time to post in this thread because I care about Dimensions as a community. We are all part of any number of minorities and majorities here. I may find commonalities and differences with every single person here. Regardless of which majority or minority I happen to fall in at the moment, by your definition, I will reiterate that I speak here for myself and only in the interest of promoting dialogue--not so as to side with one side or another. My *only* agenda is to promote *open*, multilateral dialogue. I hope I've made that clear.


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## KHayes666 (Jun 29, 2008)

ripley said:


> I've explained my word choice many, many times in this thread, said I realize where I went wrong....when you come all exasperated ("for the nth time, ripley! jeez") then you are going to be met with sarcasm.



I understand that you posted that you worded it wrong, I even took note of it in my earlier post. You asked why you're being met with negativity and I'm explaining its how you worded it. The people who've been following this thread have noted how you've explained yourself, but for those just joining us for instance will see the words "disgusting and painful" and will either be outraged or scared.


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## ripley (Jun 29, 2008)

You (and others) are NOT new to this thread. But take your shots, I can take it. If you want to grind someone down by continuing to punish them after they've apologized, then knock yourself out.


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## KHayes666 (Jun 29, 2008)

ripley said:


> You (and others) are NOT new to this thread. But take your shots, I can take it. If you want to grind someone down by continuing to punish them after they've apologized, then knock yourself out.



I take no pleasure in that.

Again, you asked why people are taking shots at you and I answered.

I have no desire to take shots, but merely explaining that if future patrons decide to fire away, its because they haven't read the whole way through


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## ripley (Jun 29, 2008)

KHayes666 said:


> I take no pleasure in that.
> 
> Again, you asked why people are taking shots at you and I answered.
> 
> I have no desire to take shots, but merely explaining that if future patrons decide to fire away, its because they haven't read the whole way through



No, I did not ask why people are taking shots at me.

And no, you weren't explaining...you're trying to justify.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 29, 2008)

Tooz said:


> There _are_ ways to learn without practically screaming from the mountain tops that you don't like something or it makes you uncomfortable. There is a difference between learning about/exploring something and trying to counter everything anyone says about it.
> 
> 
> 
> Just sayin'.



What I'd be interested in finding out is why you are so vested in ascribing motives to me that aren't there.

Just sayin'.


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## vardon_grip (Jun 29, 2008)

ripley said:


> When have I told anyone what to think? When have I said that any fantasy is incorrect? When have I vilified anyone? Please show me examples, because I believe these are untruths.



You haven't vilified anyone. They needed someone to direct their anger at and you were most available. (It is your thread) They should look in the mirror, when searching for scapegoats. Always expect huge leaps in (lack of) logic when dealing with strong topics. 



KHayes666 said:


> For the ninth time, the anger is directed at you because of the way you worded it. If you said "what secret fetish do you prefer" instead of "what disgusting and painful thing are you attracted to" then you wouldn't have gotten (well deserved) criticism. You basically created a bear trap that only people with true guts would admit to enjoying, whether you meant to or not by using the words you did. Next time be more selective



If you didn't use _this_ word and used _that_ word instead...? Why? So you can feel better about yourself and your kink? You like to feed or stuff or squash or get shit on or be tied up or wear a diaper? Then do it. So be it...and to hell with how it looks to others. Stop looking for approval. Stop caring if you will be judged. (because we are all judged everyday-and so what) This poll isn't a bear trap, it is just an internet poll. If you don't like the poll-DON'T PARTICIPATE. If you don't want criticism (or praise) from the public about your pension for dressing in lingerie and taking a strap-on up your bum... then shut yo' mowf! It is not a trap if you can see everything laid out in front of you. Nothing is hidden except your own demons.


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## Carl1h (Jun 29, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> To be clear, I was talking about people living next door who might theoretically confess to fantasizing about killing others.
> 
> You are talking about gay people.
> 
> Clearly these two categories are nowhere near each other. My expressing fear of a neighbor who expresses a fantasy of butchering people IS NOT in the same category as a bigot expressing his homophobia.



I really think we are on the same page here. But I do want you to see that I'm not only comparing homosexuals to a neighbor who expresses a fantasy of butchering people, I'm comparing them to FAs and feeders. You were the one who compared FAs and feeders to the neighbor with a fantasy of butchering people, and that is where the link came from. My point is that acting on fear alone is a good way to cause a lot of pain unjustly, because you seemed to be trying to make the point that someone should be allowed to express their fears about whatever topic is at hand in whatever terms they like. People shouldn't be able to do that, because that can become hate speech. Your theoretical fear of your theoretical neighbor becomes bigotry when you tell his employer and he gets fired from his job, or when the local civic group runs him out of town. I'm sure there are a lot of writers that would become very uncomfortable at the idea of people expressing their fears over thoughts of murder and mayhem, and a lot of FAs that are less than thrilled at being compared to people who fantasize about murdering and butchering people.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 29, 2008)

olwen said:


> See, what I'm getting from your posts about this issue is that to you, the extreme aspects of feederism = abuse. Am I wrong? I don't currently engage in feederism, but I get it. I get the extreme aspects too, and to me it's not abuse. It's just people doing stuff they get much pleasure from, and the consequences are just part of the package. That's all it is. That's all. What more is there to get? Do the details really matter all that much?




Olwen, I spent 4 years in undergraduate school, 3 in graduate school, 4 months as an intern and then 2 full years under direct supervision before obtaining a license to practice as a CISW (certified independent social worker). I have been in my chosen profession for 8 years. But more importantly than any of that, I have my own set of personal experiences that I carry with me, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that when dealing with extremes of just about *anything*, the harm is almost never contained to the two individuals who are involved. I have to think that we aren't defining "extreme" in the same way, because if we were, then surely you wouldn't say "That's all it is. That's all." Even if the harm were contained to those directly engaged in harmful behaviors, their own lives have value, and that matters.

I work with people who lost their ability to choose and to make good decisions for themselves. Somewhere along the way, problem drinking or recreational drug usage became alcoholism and/or drug addiction, and then it became an overriding need that cancelled out any self-preservation instinct, love of family/friends and/or self, and ability to make rational choices. It didn't just happen overnight. People don't go from being recreational drug users to hollowed-out shells of themselves, living on park benches, turning tricks and/or holding up signs on busy streetcorners, begging for people to sling loose change at them. Somewhere along the way, a lot of choice was involved, and a lot of poor decisions were made, and at some point ... that threshhold of free will and the ability to walk away was stepped over. 

Extremes. These are extremes. And I see at least the possibility of parallels between those who would feed themselves/allow themselves to be fed into immobility with any other individual who has addictive behaviors and lacks the ability (or the desire) to step away from that self-destructive edge.

Addicts like to tell themselves that their behaviors aren't harming anyone else. I could point out, until I am blue in the face, that Random Alcoholic Gentleman/Client X has two hurting children and a grief-stricken wife, a family fully vested in his self-destructive behaviors. He won't hear it. He can't allow himself to, because the addict within him won't be able to continue feeding that need to remain chemically altered. And even if he *does* allow himself to hear a partial truth, he'll negate most of it with the standard "I can't help myself, I'm too sick/too far gone/too traumatized myself to be of any use to others." Some, in the process of recovery, do become fully aware of the harm that they've caused to others. Some use that heavy burden of pain and intolerable guilt to go right back to their drugs of choice.

People who do things to an extreme, whether that be drug usage, binge drinking, intentionally eating to the point of immobility ... even turning to religion, and using that as a crutch to hide from life ... I've seen it all, to one degree or another. I've experienced some of it myself. I've flirted around the edges of some terribly self-destructive behaviors. It has given me the ability to at least understand the rationalizations that people use ... and to know when someone isn't ready to face the consequences of his/her actions, and truly dedicate him/herself to recovery.

What I've been trying to convey has nothing to do with what two consenting adults do for pleasure (even when that involves pain, or other behaviors that I'd personally find uncomfortable). What I've been focusing on is the instances in which it isn't two "consenting" adults ... when it is, in fact, a predator and his prey (and as much as you'd like to believe that we're all strong, capable people who are 100% responsible for our own lives ... I happen to know differently, personally and professionally). Or when it once was pleasurable, and then it crosses the line and becomes incompatible with one (or both) people's ability to make rational choices. When it stops being lots of fun between two adults and starts to affect their children, their families, the people who love them and see what is happening to them. When mom can't be an active participant in her child's life, because mom is incapacitated. 

And yet again, I know that this is an uncomfortable subject matter. I know that. I know that some people will not (cannot) see what I am trying to say, and will instead focus on a simpler and far easier response: I just hate feeders. I think feederism is disgusting. I pity fat people. Etc. Ad nauseaum. 

I believe that talking about any kind of extreme requires that we acknowlege ... we don't live in self-contained bubbles. Our behaviors do cause harm, directly or indirectly, to the people that we love and are responsible for. 

I am not that person who gets to choose the magical cut-off point in which it becomes less about fun, erotic play between consenting adults and more about something darker ... if it ever does. But when I think about not acknowledging the possibility that it could become that, I think about the hundreds of sad, dirty, broken, shelter-dwelling individuals I've worked with ... people who have lost everything that ever mattered to them ... and how that never just happened overnight, and most would tell you that it was a process that started so slowly, they were caught up in something that was way beyond their ability to stop ... before they could even comprehend what they had to lose, what they would lose. Themselves. When you deal in extremes of any kind, there's seldom a happy ending. That is what my experiences have thus far led me to believe.


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## largenlovely (Jun 30, 2008)

Ok ..after that post maybe i can understand what angle you're coming from a little bit better. I would like to suggest that you're seeing the harder side of reality though...and it sounds like you're seeing it on a daily basis. I totally respect what you do for a living..absolutely...but working with people in those circumstances will definitely change your view on things (which you already said...i'm just agreeing lol)

I still "*feel* the same things that i have mentioned previously, but please allow me to try to show you where i'm coming from... now that i see better where you are coming from. When i see the word abuse or victim, i become angry (which i usually try to control but it didn't seem to work in the previous thread *insert sheepish grin*). Having had some of the same fantasies as a few of the other folks around here, I think I take it on the personal side. I'm far from a victim (as anyone who knows me well would attest to that). Though, when reading your posts...it makes me feel as if you see it as a "no win" situation. It sounds to me as if you're saying that no matter *what* ...anyone who decides to become immobile has lost their rationalization skills and is therefore automatically a victim. It's like... i've heard people say that when someone committs suicide they have reached the point of insanity because no one in their right mind would quit striving to live. So..i mean, with that reason..you would have to logically conclude that all suicides are from people who are insane (though i don't believe a person is insane because they committ suicide...i'm just using that type of rationale as an example). 

I have admitted to having immobility fantasies of some sort... I don't choose to live those fantasies out in reality. But me...i'm perfectly ok with having 'play time' or as i've heard others say, 'sexy time" lol, with my boyfriend and then back to reality which doesn't include those things. Though, i wouldn't want to feel like i'm condemning anyone for wanting to live those things out in their lives. 

I hope you don't take this post as offense TraciJo...i don't mean it that way. i feel that i should clarify that after us having had words previously. This was genuine and i hope that you take it that way 

*Edit* I forgot to say something else i wanted to say..so i'm just gonna add it in here. The other issue i also have is that it's kind of the "slippery slope" thing. It feels to me like you're saying (and please correct me if i'm wrong...which i KNOW you will lol)...but it feels like you're saying that if a person shouldn't even be fantasizing of these things because eventually (like a drug addict in the beginning stages) ...eventually they will become more and more involved and will eventually want to live them out? which will...again...make them a victim




TraciJo67 said:


> I work with people who lost their ability to choose and to make good decisions for themselves. Somewhere along the way, problem drinking or recreational drug usage became alcoholism and/or drug addiction, and then it became an overriding need that cancelled out any self-preservation instinct, love of family/friends and/or self, and ability to make rational choices.


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## jdinmi (Jun 30, 2008)

ripley said:


> So if your SO did gain weight, none of those things would arouse you? None of those things if you saw them in porn or read them on the story forum would arouse you?



I feel like that gets to the fantasy versus reality thing. There are a good number of things I can think of--fat-related and not--that, in the context of pornography or an erotic story, I'd find arousing. But, if they happened in real life, I wouldn't be at all aroused by them.

ETA: I've been thinking about what it is I find attractive about fat, and, aside from the aesthetics, I think for me it's not that it's embarrassing or painful, but that it seems transgressive. Even if for the vast majority of fat people it's not that way intentionally, I think that's the aspect I find most attractive.


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## ripley (Jun 30, 2008)

jdinmi said:


> I feel like that gets to the fantasy versus reality thing. There are a good number of things I can think of--fat-related and not--that, in the context of pornography or an erotic story, I'd find arousing. But, if they happened in real life, I wouldn't be at all aroused by them.
> 
> ETA: I've been thinking about what it is I find attractive about fat, and, aside from the aesthetics, I think for me it's not that it's embarrassing or painful, but that it seems transgressive. Even if for the vast majority of fat people it's not that way intentionally, I think that's the aspect I find most attractive.



See, that's the thing...it doesn't say in reality, or that the choices are an end result of weight gain.


What do you mean by "transgressive"? Do you mean that it crosses social taboos and mores to be fat today? I've heard a lot of FAs say that that is a part of their attraction to a fat partner.


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## BigBeautifulMe (Jun 30, 2008)

I'm a day late and a dollar short, per usual. I should have posted long before this, but I wanted to avoid the massive clusterf*ck this thread has become.

I get that many folks feel Ripley's questions were not phrased in an unbiased way. I get that to some of you, it was painful to see your fantasies associated with words like "disgusting" and "painful." I can only imagine how I'd feel in such a case. 

However, Ripley has apologized up and down for her word choice, and explained the reason she went with those words. You can agree or disagree with the reasons she made those choices, but the fact remains that her intentions were good - that she wanted to see a conversation develop where BBWs could learn a little bit more about the inner workings of an FA and his fantasies (among other things). She wanted to learn, she wanted to develop a productive conversation she hoped would bring people together.

You don't agree with how she did it. I understand. But please, can we just keep the actual conversation going about the topic itself? I've learned a lot myself from this thread, and I know others have, too. I think everyone's learned all they can from the piling on of Ripley. She's apologized, and she really IS sorry - yelling at her just isn't productive any more.


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## largenlovely (Jun 30, 2008)

largenlovely approves this post *gives stately nod* lol



BigBeautifulMe said:


> I'm a day late and a dollar short, per usual. I should have posted long before this, but I wanted to avoid the massive clusterf*ck this thread has become.
> 
> I get that many folks feel Ripley's questions were not phrased in an unbiased way. I get that to some of you, it was painful to see your fantasies associated with words like "disgusting" and "painful." I can only imagine how I'd feel in such a case.
> 
> ...


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## largenlovely (Jun 30, 2008)

oh i bet i can answer this lol

transgressive...i felt this way as a teenager. I would sneak food and it made me feel all naughty and rebellious :blush: hehe



ripley said:


> See, that's the thing...it doesn't say in reality, or that the choices are an end result of weight gain.
> 
> 
> What do you mean by "transgressive"? Do you mean that it crosses social taboos and mores to be fat today? I've heard a lot of FAs say that that is a part of their attraction to a fat partner.


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## ripley (Jun 30, 2008)

largenlovely said:


> oh i bet i can answer this lol
> 
> transgressive...i felt this way as a teenager. I would sneak food and it made me feel all naughty :blush: hehe



We're just rebels without a cause...but with donuts.


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## largenlovely (Jun 30, 2008)

lmao you responded before i edited it and added rebelious *salutes ripley with her donut*



ripley said:


> We're just rebels without a cause...but with donuts.


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## butch (Jun 30, 2008)

ripley said:


> See, that's the thing...it doesn't say in reality, or that the choices are an end result of weight gain.
> 
> 
> What do you mean by "transgressive"? Do you mean that it crosses social taboos and mores to be fat today? I've heard a lot of FAs say that that is a part of their attraction to a fat partner.



That is part of what turns me on about the 'embarrassing' things associated with being fat, which is why the use of that word did not bug me, because I do get aroused sometimes (not all the time, mind you) when I know I'm a spectacle, when people's noses are rubbed in the reality of my size, whether they like it or not, and that they're missing out on some of the fun things that helped get me to this size. I like knowing I'm too much for this world, too much body, too much brain, too much laughter and too much spirit for them to even begin to contain me, and I know they can't fucking take their eyes off me, even as they claim to judge me negatively. The too tight shirt, or the booth I won't fit in, or the turnstile that I turn sideways to get through, all this reminds me (and them) that I am larger than life, and someone with an appetite for all kinds of hedonistic things, ha ha.

Maybe I'm egotistical and vain, but damn it, I like the way I look, and I don't want to hide my light under a bushell, and to me that is all transgressive, taboo, and erotic as hell. Oh no, more TMI again. I've found this poll to be very informative, even if I feel like one of the few fatties to admit to my kinks in this thread, lol.


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## largenlovely (Jun 30, 2008)

wow...seriously...that was a great post. I love that part too...there are times when i get angry if someone is downright rude about my size, but for the most part it makes me giggle inside my head at the way people will stare....i must admit that it's even more fun when i have someone there to share it with me 



butch said:


> That is part of what turns me on about the 'embarrassing' things associated with being fat, which is why the use of that word did not bug me, because I do get aroused sometimes (not all the time, mind you) when I know I'm a spectacle, when people's noses are rubbed in the reality of my size, whether they like it or not, and that they're missing out on some of the fun things that helped get me to this size. I like knowing I'm too much for this world, too much body, too much brain, too much laughter and too much spirit for them to even begin to contain me, and I know they can't fucking take their eyes off me, even as they claim to judge me negatively. The too tight shirt, or the booth I won't fit in, or the turnstile that I turn sideways to get through, all this reminds me (and them) that I am larger than life, and someone with an appetite for all kinds of hedonistic things, ha ha.
> 
> Maybe I'm egotistical and vain, but damn it, I like the way I look, and I don't want to hide my light under a bushell, and to me that is all transgressive, taboo, and erotic as hell. Oh no, more TMI again. I've found this poll to be very informative, even if I feel like one of the few fatties to admit to my kinks in this thread, lol.


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## largenlovely (Jun 30, 2008)

hell, don't feel alone...i've outed myself a few times this week about some of my kinks lol



butch said:


> even if I feel like one of the few fatties to admit to my kinks in this thread, lol.


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## Ruby Ripples (Jun 30, 2008)

ripley said:


> When have I told anyone what to think? When have I said that any fantasy is incorrect? When have I vilified anyone? Please show me examples, because I believe these are untruths.
> 
> You know what? The only negativity I've seen in this thread is the stuff that has been directed at _*me*_. Not feeders, not holders of any fantasy...and that is why I am STILL glad I made this thread. I've increased my understanding, and opened dialog about stuff that is common but rarely talked about. This poll has a lot of respondents. (Last I looked, over 170.) So obviously I am not the only one who thinks it can have value.



The very title of your poll, I will say again vilifies people. If someone is attracted to say farting, you are calling it disgusting AND an aspect of size, plainly and clearly, which is obviously VERY negative. To both the person turned on by it, and also any person of size, since you say its a disgusting aspect of size. I know I said this already, but since you are saying here that the only negativity you've seen has been aimed at you, I had to point to out that to me and not only me, the unfortunate title and option titles on your poll, distinctly show negativity to others.


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## butch (Jun 30, 2008)

largenlovely said:


> hell, don't feel alone...i've outed myself a few times this week about some of my kinks lol



Its always good to have company, LnL. Thanks for the support, and for your contributions to so many interesting threads here at Dims.


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## ripley (Jun 30, 2008)

butch said:


> That is part of what turns me on about the 'embarrassing' things associated with being fat, which is why the use of that word did not bug me, because I do get aroused sometimes (not all the time, mind you) when I know I'm a spectacle, when people's noses are rubbed in the reality of my size, whether they like it or not, and that they're missing out on some of the fun things that helped get me to this size. I like knowing I'm too much for this world, too much body, too much brain, too much laughter and too much spirit for them to even begin to contain me, and I know they can't fucking take their eyes off me, even as they claim to judge me negatively. The too tight shirt, or the booth I won't fit in, or the turnstile that I turn sideways to get through, all this reminds me (and them) that I am larger than life, and someone with an appetite for all kinds of hedonistic things, ha ha.
> 
> Maybe I'm egotistical and vain, but damn it, I like the way I look, and I don't want to hide my light under a bushell, and to me that is all transgressive, taboo, and erotic as hell. Oh no, more TMI again. I've found this poll to be very informative, even if I feel like one of the few fatties to admit to my kinks in this thread, lol.



I agree, great post. I want you to bottle that and send me some. 



Ruby Ripples said:


> The very title of your poll, I will say again vilifies people. If someone is attracted to say farting, you are calling it disgusting AND an aspect of size, plainly and clearly, which is obviously VERY negative. To both the person turned on by it, and also any person of size, since you say its a disgusting aspect of size. I know I said this already, but since you are saying here that the only negativity you've seen has been aimed at you, I had to point to out that to me and not only me, the unfortunate title and option titles on your poll, distinctly show negativity to others.



No, I do not say it's an aspect of size. Fat people fart. Skinny people fart. Some men are turned on by _fat women farting_. That's it, that's all.

I have apologized for my wording. I disagree however, that it "vilifies" anyone. I have made no one here a villain. I think farts are disgusting...they sure aren't a lilac bouquet. That does not mean if you like them, are aroused by them, that you are ranked right up there with serial killers, dictators who enjoy genocide, or any other hideous thing. It just means you are different from me, and that's okay.


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## Fascinita (Jun 30, 2008)

Carl1h said:


> You were the one who compared FAs and feeders to the neighbor with a fantasy of butchering people, and that is where the link came from.



No, Carl. I certainly did NOT compare FAs and feeders to neighbors with fantasies of butchering people. I was *clear* in my DISCLAIMER in my lengthy post that I was speaking of fantasies *in general* in order to build toward a larger point about WHY some fantasies might misguidedly evoke just as much horror on gut-instinct to self-preserve as the ramblings of a psychopath.

That is using a rhetorical device to make a larger argument pertaining to semantics and human psychology, toward building a case for a truly open, tolerant forum. It is NOT the same as comparing FAs and feeders to murderers--I would NEVER put gay people, or FAs or feeders, or fat people for that matter (since we are talking about the difference between repression of sociopathic behavior and repression of difference as such) on the same plane as sociopaths, and I was careful to make that very clear in my lengthy post. 

To claim that I equate FAs and feeders with sociopaths is a gross misunderstanding on your part of my position, or a misrepresentation. I'm betting it's simply a misunderstanding because my sense is that you're a good guy with every sincere intention to dialogue, and with some valid points to make. 

But please go back and review my post in order to clear up your confusion. If you think that I am comparing FAs and feeders to neighbors with murderous fantasies, perhaps that assumption is why you object to the slippery slope argument you think I'm making. I assure you, the point is more subtle than that. And I'm afraid you and I won't be able to move forward in this discussion if you continue to assert that I made this comparison when in fact I did not and would never. That simply points to a gross failure to communicate and we need to clear it up before proceeding. I will do what I can to clarify my position further if you'd like me to do that, but I believe that a careful re-reading of my lengthy post should do it. Thanks.


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## olwen (Jun 30, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> Olwen, I spent 4 years in undergraduate school, 3 in graduate school, 4 months as an intern and then 2 full years under direct supervision before obtaining a license to practice as a CISW (certified independent social worker). I have been in my chosen profession for 8 years. But more importantly than any of that, I have my own set of personal experiences that I carry with me, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that when dealing with extremes of just about *anything*, the harm is almost never contained to the two individuals who are involved. I have to think that we aren't defining "extreme" in the same way, because if we were, then surely you wouldn't say "That's all it is. That's all." Even if the harm were contained to those directly engaged in harmful behaviors, their own lives have value, and that matters.
> 
> I work with people who lost their ability to choose and to make good decisions for themselves. Somewhere along the way, problem drinking or recreational drug usage became alcoholism and/or drug addiction, and then it became an overriding need that cancelled out any self-preservation instinct, love of family/friends and/or self, and ability to make rational choices. It didn't just happen overnight. People don't go from being recreational drug users to hollowed-out shells of themselves, living on park benches, turning tricks and/or holding up signs on busy streetcorners, begging for people to sling loose change at them. Somewhere along the way, a lot of choice was involved, and a lot of poor decisions were made, and at some point ... that threshhold of free will and the ability to walk away was stepped over.
> 
> ...




Despite some of the things you're saying it still reads -at least to me- that you think edge play is irresponsible. To assume that any sort of edge play is highly likely to turn into a predator/prey situation or that the players are very likely to be so caught up in the acts as to not see reasonable ends....just seems to me like you're saying anyone who plays that way is crazy/sick/unbalanced/psycho/evil/deviant in the first place - not so sure I follow or like that line of reasoning either. 

I just don't see how a willing gainer slowly becomes a victim who got caught up in a fantasy. If the gainer who likes making the fantasy reality, talks about it constantly with the feeder and enjoys it, can't forsee being in a situation where she becomes dependent on the other person, and one day changes her mind and decides she doesn't like it, then it's still on her isn't it? She chose to walk down that road didn't she? 

I imagine this conversation:
Me: "Why didn't you think about all this before you started?" 
Gainer: "I didn't think he'd leave me." 
Me: "Oh, but people in vanilla relationships leave each other all the time for all kinds of reasons. Why should this situation be any different?" 
Gainer: "Oh, I just didn't think..." 
No, the gainer didn't think. Damn - That's rough.

I can think of situations where vanilla sex turns into an actual predator/prey situation. One of which has actually happened to me years and years ago. So to say this can only happen when people play in ways you aren't familiar with or are uncomfortable with is just plain one sided - and judgmental. 

What would you have us all do Traci? Set up cameras in people's bedrooms? Institute a federal sex police agency to make sure people aren't getting hurt? If consenting adults lack the desire to stop then that is still their choice. If one person decides they no longer want to consent but they still do then it's still on them to actually stop. If that same person wants to stop and the other ignores that, then it becomes a problem.

_______________________________________________________________

Let me ask you this: What happens on that road to change? How does one even begin to do that? What do they need to do to end the (self-)destructive behavior? What did you have to do to end yours? They need to acknowledge that they have to do something about it then they need to actually do something about it. Is this not what you did? Just because they may not feel strong enough to do something doesn't mean that they aren't capable. Just because it hurts or just because it's hard doesn't mean it isn't possible. What do you say to people to help them on the road to recovery? 

I have had a couple of friends who were/are alcoholics. One joined AA and the other won't do it. He doesn't think he has it in him to quit despite loosing friends and jobs, and almost being estranged from his family, getting stopped by the police numerous times, ect. I tried everything I could think of to get him to see how painful it was for all of us to watch him go thru it. Eventually I realized that he has to be willing to go there. He has to find that strength within himself. He's gonna stay an alcoholic, and justify his drinking all kinds of ways till he does. What makes him different from the one who joined AA? The one who joined AA found that inner strength despite being worse off. He took personal responsibility for himself and did what he needed to do to get clean.

So, to say, that self-destructive behaviors and patterns happens so often and people make all kinds of excuses, therefore the idea of personal responsibility is just plain unrealistic.....that seems unrealistic to me. 

...it could very well just be me being naive, but I believe that inner strength is there inside everyone. I like to think I'm being hopeful about this, because to me it is just that simple. It's making it difficult that actually makes it difficult.
It saddens me to think that you don't seem to see it that way.

ETA: I do see how doing what you do and being confronted by this tough stuff every day would help you appreciate the difficulty of some people's lives, and I do respect that, but it seems to me that seeing it everyday maybe makes you forget about the hopeful bits....I don't know. It's tough.


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## Fascinita (Jun 30, 2008)

jdinmi said:


> ETA: I've been thinking about what it is I find attractive about fat, and, aside from the aesthetics, I think for me it's not that it's embarrassing or painful, but that it seems transgressive. Even if for the vast majority of fat people it's not that way intentionally, I think that's the aspect I find most attractive.



Well, I'll tell you on a personal note that one of the things I like best about being fat is that I realize to some extent that it constitutes a "breaking of the rules" as far as many people are concerned. There have been polls in which a majority of people have said that they would rather give up limbs than become obese. To be fat is often classified as a fate worse than death by many. So, in being fat, I sometimes take perverse pleasure in knowing that I am anathema to those beliefs. Just by being fat, I feel like I am breaking their rules and asserting my right to be as I please. I love that.

Of course, the reasons I am fat are really much more complex than straightfoward choice. But that's a post for another thread


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## largenlovely (Jun 30, 2008)

boy that aint a joke ...i can totally understand that..sometimes i confuse MYSELF lol




Fascinita said:


> Of course, the reasons I am fat are really much more complex than straightfoward choice. But that's a post for another thread


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## Fascinita (Jun 30, 2008)

largenlovely said:


> boy that aint a joke ...i can totally understand that..sometimes i confuse MYSELF lol



Yeah, I think it's a whole heap of things. I do take pleasure in being fat and I let myself eat what I want. But I also exercise and eat as healthy as I can afford to eat. (I'm a vegetarian, but it's expensive to buy fresh produce lol.)

So the reasons I am fat are not what the typical fat-hater might assume--that I eat all day and am lazy and never get up from the couch... you know those stereotypes are out there. Nor is it that I simply choose to be fatter than average. t is much more complex than that. The way I explain it is that it's just how my body is, given the way I live. You (rhetorical "you") may say I need to go spend two hours at the gym everyday in that case, but I say I'm not going to do that.  So this is the body I got.


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## JoyJoy (Jun 30, 2008)

If people would stop being alarmist and actually try to see the question from another point of view with an open mind....sit back and let the intelligent discourse take place and put down the tar and feathers, this thread would veer away from being a clusterfuck and actually be productive. Really. I know we can do it, folks.


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## furious styles (Jun 30, 2008)

JoyJoy said:


> If people would stop being alarmist and actually try to see the question from another point of view with an open mind....sit back and let the intelligent discourse take place and put down the tar and feathers, this thread would veer away from being a clusterfuck and actually be productive. Really. I know we can do it, folks.



x2

The point was made about the language. It's now veered off course into something it wasn't trying to be. As usual per dims, though. No one ever wants to give in.


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## KHayes666 (Jun 30, 2008)

vardon_grip said:


> If you didn't use _this_ word and used _that_ word instead...? Why? So you can feel better about yourself and your kink? You like to feed or stuff or squash or get shit on or be tied up or wear a diaper? Then do it. So be it...and to hell with how it looks to others. Stop looking for approval. Stop caring if you will be judged. (because we are all judged everyday-and so what) This poll isn't a bear trap, it is just an internet poll. If you don't like the poll-DON'T PARTICIPATE. If you don't want criticism (or praise) from the public about your pension for dressing in lingerie and taking a strap-on up your bum... then shut yo' mowf! It is not a trap if you can see everything laid out in front of you. Nothing is hidden except your own demons.




You're barking up the wrong tree. 

I myself am what I am, an encourager. I'll go to the god damn grave admitting it, I was saying it was a bear trap for people still in the closet about certain things. I could give a damn who agrees or who approves of me, its the other posters and lurkers that are the ones seeking approval and you'd be ignorant to claim they're not out there.

If you don't like me, great. If you like me, even better....but I'm not changing for anyone. Its the other people who are afraid to admit they wear diapers and take strap ons up the wazoo that you should be flapping your gums to.


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## JoyJoy (Jun 30, 2008)

JoyJoy said:


> If people would stop being alarmist and actually try to see the question from another point of view with an open mind....sit back and let the intelligent discourse take place and put down the tar and feathers and stop dragging crosses around, this thread would veer away from being a clusterfuck and actually be productive. Really. I know we can do it, folks.



I fixed it.


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## vardon_grip (Jun 30, 2008)

KHayes666 said:


> You're barking up the wrong tree.
> 
> I myself am what I am, an encourager. I'll go to the god damn grave admitting it, I was saying it was a bear trap for people still in the closet about certain things. I could give a damn who agrees or who approves of me, its the other posters and lurkers that are the ones seeking approval and you'd be ignorant to claim they're not out there.
> 
> If you don't like me, great. If you like me, even better....but I'm not changing for anyone. Its the other people who are afraid to admit they wear diapers and take strap ons up the wazoo that you should be flapping your gums to.



Nope. The tree is correct. You posted. I replied to your flapping gums. I disagreed when you opined that Ripley's poll should be worded differently. Nope, if that's the wording that she wanted to use-then its perfect. That's simple to understand. Maybe you should let people speak for themselves. Or did they ask you to come to their aid? If they aren't ready to face the consequences of their preferences, maybe they aren't ready to ask someone to share their preference. Ripley's anonymous poll isn't a bear trap for people in the closet. It wasn't worded pretty and deceptive to lure them out into the open and then slam the jaws shut on them. So, again I disagree with your opinion. Not a bear trap. I am not ignorant in knowing that people seek the approval of others. I just think they should be looking to themselves for it and not from internet polls and forums.


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## LillyBBBW (Jun 30, 2008)

vardon_grip said:


> You haven't vilified anyone. They needed someone to direct their anger at and you were most available. (It is your thread) They should look in the mirror, when searching for scapegoats. Always expect huge leaps in (lack of) logic when dealing with strong topics.
> 
> 
> 
> If you didn't use _this_ word and used _that_ word instead...? Why? So you can feel better about yourself and your kink? You like to feed or stuff or squash or get shit on or be tied up or wear a diaper? Then do it. So be it...and to hell with how it looks to others. Stop looking for approval. Stop caring if you will be judged. (because we are all judged everyday-and so what) This poll isn't a bear trap, it is just an internet poll. If you don't like the poll-DON'T PARTICIPATE. If you don't want criticism (or praise) from the public about your pension for dressing in lingerie and taking a strap-on up your bum... then shut yo' mowf! It is not a trap if you can see everything laid out in front of you. Nothing is hidden except your own demons.



What the FUCK is wrong with you? You don't decide what anybody is going to be offended by or what their motives are. If you don't like my stanky assed diaper that is your fucking problem and if I don't like what you have to say about it I'm going to fucking say so. How 'bout you shut YO mowf and mind your goddamned business.


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## wrestlingguy (Jun 30, 2008)

JoyJoy said:


> If people would stop being alarmist and actually try to see the question from another point of view with an open mind....sit back and let the intelligent discourse take place and put down the tar and feathers, this thread would veer away from being a clusterfuck and actually be productive. Really. I know we can do it, folks.



I agree +1. I posted my own observation about time put in as a FA, and how your tastes in what you find erotic could change over time, and it was ignored, as everyone jumped into their personal flames, rather than the merits of the topic in general.

I mean, you shouldn't respond just because wrestlingguy posted something, but even a broken clock is right a couple of times a day. Christ, get over yourselves already..............


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## BothGunsBlazing (Jun 30, 2008)

Was gone all weekend, but my mind has been blown by the existence of these incredibly similar threads being made on both of the forums I post on.

This one, obviously, but the other was made on this music forum I post on quite a bit. 

The poll there was "weird/disgusting fetishes/odd sexual desires" or whatever and some of the options were actually farting and stuff like seeing your partner in pain etc and of course one was "fat chicks" 

so, it's just interesting because yeah, puts it in an odd perspective .. "fat chicks" being an option and all. I think most people would die if they knew that there were so many subpreferences and desires within just liking OMGFATGURLZ!


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 30, 2008)

olwen said:


> Despite some of the things you're saying it still reads -at least to me- that you think edge play is irresponsible. To assume that any sort of edge play is highly likely to turn into a predator/prey situation or that the players are very likely to be so caught up in the acts as to not see reasonable ends....just seems to me like you're saying anyone who plays that way is crazy/sick/unbalanced/psycho/evil/deviant in the first place - not so sure I follow or like that line of reasoning either.



Olwen, you are misconstruing what I've been trying to say. I believe that I've been very careful to assert that I'm not saying edge play, fantasy role playing, feederism, bondage, S&M, recreational drug usage ... anything at all that we use to bring ourselves pleasure (including the pleasure of pain ) is irresponsible (far less sick or deviant). I don't get to make that choice for other people. Nor, on a personal level, do I have a rigidly defined perspective on what is right and what is wrong. 

What I have said all along is that when people do engage in behaviors that lead them to the edge of self-destruction (and please read that *this* is a very narrowly-defined concept here, as most people do not allow themselves anywhere close to that edge even when bringing out the whips 'n chains 'n cupcakes 'n gin & tonics), they owe it to themselves and to their families to take a step back and think about the natural progression or consequences of their choices ... before they step over that edge. I work with people who have marched across that line, all the while freely making choices that led them to that point. And when they do step across, it becomes less about the ability to make a choice, and more about the need to feed the monkey on their backs. They didn't see the point in which that gradual slide became a whirling dervish that they became hopelessly caught up in.



> What would you have us all do Traci? Set up cameras in people's bedrooms? Institute a federal sex police agency to make sure people aren't getting hurt? If consenting adults lack the desire to stop then that is still their choice. If one person decides they no longer want to consent but they still do then it's still on them to actually stop. If that same person wants to stop and the other ignores that, then it becomes a problem.



This isn't even close to what I've been suggesting, and I think you know that, Olwen. This is a cheap shot, and I don't appreciate it, because I've come to expect more from you. You are capable of reasoned discourse. I've seen that from you, many times. 

I'm not asking anyone to do or to not do anything. I'll stop there, because I'm really tired of explaining myself in this regard, over and over again. 



> Let me ask you this: What happens on that road to change? How does one even begin to do that? What do they need to do to end the (self-)destructive behavior? What did you have to do to end yours? They need to acknowledge that they have to do something about it then they need to actually do something about it. Is this not what you did? Just because they may not feel strong enough to do something doesn't mean that they aren't capable. Just because it hurts or just because it's hard doesn't mean it isn't possible. What do you say to people to help them on the road to recovery?



I read this as suggesting that it's OK to be self-destructive because you can always make a choice to haul yourself up by the bootstraps and save yourself. It's not that simple. 

Do you think that a rational person would choose to lose his job, his family, his home, his money, his very sanity ... all so that he can continue to feed his addiction? He didn't wake up one day and just decide to become destitute, homeless, jobless. He walked up to the edge, and he either jumped or stumbled across it, and when he did, he found himself unable to get back to the other side. Not without horrific consequences, anyway. And not without a lot of professional help. And most, when they reach that point, do not ever recover. I do understand that most lay people believe that drunken "bums" who stand on streetcorners and harass them for change are just irresponsible schlubs who chose to be what they are. Problem is, many of these same people will go home and down one too many scotch on the rocks while sprawled out in front of the television, all the while telling themselves that they are different because they have jobs and responsible lives and they can stop at any point. Until they find that they can't stop. 

You asked how I recovered. Here's how: I took the first step and stripped myself of any fantasy of the ability to control myself, and I sought professional help. And I acknowledged to myself, fully and without any delusions, that I am no better than any other addict. I am capable of harming myself and others. I would be capable of breaking the law, of harming my child, of losing everything that ever mattered to me, if I were to go back to those days of unchecked self-destructive behaviors. And I matter. I cannot stay in recovery for my husband or for my child or for anyone else who loves me. I stay there because I love myself. That is the only thing, the *only* thing, that saved me from falling directly into a deep pit that I couldn't climb out of. That, and humility - acknowledging that I am no better than the worst of humanity. And I found a way to live with that knowledge, while still being able to look at myself in the mirror, and like what I see.



> So, to say, that self-destructive behaviors and patterns happens so often and people make all kinds of excuses, therefore the idea of personal responsibility is just plain unrealistic.....that seems unrealistic to me.
> 
> [snip] ... I like to think I'm being hopeful about this, because to me it is just that simple.



It is simple, Olwen - to that end, you're right. But you're also not seeing the bigger picture. Yes, the most hopeless among us -- the pregnant crack addicts, the drunks who live under bridge abutments, the meth-heads who mix dangerous chemicals in their own homes while their children innocently sleep a few feet away -- those who are the farthest gone, the most lost .... no matter what, they must make the personal choice to stop. 

What I have been saying is that in all addictive behaviors, there are points at which it becomes more and more difficult to just push the STOP button and hop off that train. Some never find their way back to sanity, and the ability to make wise, self-loving choices for themselves. 

If I thought that it were *impossible* for people to save themselves, I'd resign from my job today, and take a cushy desk job elsewhere (and for a lot more money, to boot). Every day, I acknowledge that no matter how difficult it is, the individual who is deeply entrenched in his/her addiction must find the courage to take that first step and ask for help. The problem as I see it, Olwen, is that too many people think that they can just pull themselves up by those proverbial bootstraps, and they will not acknowledge that they need professional help. 




> ETA: I do see how doing what you do and being confronted by this tough stuff every day would help you appreciate the difficulty of some people's lives, and I do respect that, but it seems to me that seeing it everyday maybe makes you forget about the hopeful bits....I don't know. It's tough.



See above. If I felt the way you seem to think I do, I'd be serving tasty espresso-based beverages to you (John Q Public) full time  

I see a lot of hope. I wish that I could help people *before* they reached that point of near or complete incapacity, though. I wish, frankly, that my job wasn't necessary.


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## exile in thighville (Jun 30, 2008)

so glad my computer died in time for this puerile thread.

absolutely phobic.


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## olwen (Jun 30, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> Olwen, you are misconstruing what I've been trying to say. I believe that I've been very careful to assert that I'm not saying edge play, fantasy role playing, feederism, bondage, S&M, recreational drug usage ... anything at all that we use to bring ourselves pleasure (including the pleasure of pain ) is irresponsible (far less sick or deviant). I don't get to make that choice for other people. Nor, on a personal level, do I have a rigidly defined perspective on what is right and what is wrong.
> 
> What I have said all along is that when people do engage in behaviors that lead them to the edge of self-destruction (and please read that *this* is a very narrowly-defined concept here, as most people do not allow themselves anywhere close to that edge even when bringing out the whips 'n chains 'n cupcakes 'n gin & tonics), they owe it to themselves and to their families to take a step back and think about the natural progression or consequences of their choices ... before they step over that edge. I work with people who have marched across that line, all the while freely making choices that led them to that point. And when they do step across, it becomes less about the ability to make a choice, and more about the need to feed the monkey on their backs. They didn't see the point in which that gradual slide became a whirling dervish that they became hopelessly caught up in.
> 
> ...




I am glad that you are hopeful. I do appreciate the difficulty of your job. 


If you say you are okay with what consenting adults do for sexual pleasure, then okay. Can we now move away from talking about addictive behaviors regarding such kinks and responsible players vs. irresponsible ones? My brain has been officially taxed. I'm not sure anymore what it is you want me to take away from your reasoning. I'm guessing ultimately we disagree on when feederism becomes irresponsible edge play. I'm guessing you think that if the gainer becomes immobile and completely dependent on the feeder that she is no longer a rational being. I feel that she is making a choice that is right for her. Rational or no, and that no matter what she is responsible for her part in all that happens after. 

I can think of some types of edge play with dangers that are far more immediate than feederism. If we were talking about those types of play I'd still maintain that those players are still responsible for what happens to them, cause I could put myself in that situation. I become responsible for my part in everything that happens after I agree to do it. If I get hurt it's my own stupid fault for doing it. 

For example, I met a guy over the weekend who is into water bondage. WTF?!? I asked him to explain and when he did, it didn't seem so bad as what you'd think, but I still wouldn't do it. Part of me wanted to say - Dude you're insane. I almost did. But he choses to do this. His subs choose to literally put their lives in his hands. If he cuts off their air for too long, they die. He related to me how they feel when they do this - euphoric and at peace. They're in their Sweet Place. They risk death for that feeling. I was awed. After he explained it I thought that risking death might be worth that feeling - but I still wouldn't do it. I can get the same feeling in a non-risky way...I don't think they're irresponsible for doing so either. They're just doing something extreme because it brings them such pleasure and doing it responsibly. I highly doubt the ones with kids or other people who are dependent on them would go to those extremes without taking the utmost care to do it safely. I'd think too it's just as extreme to have unprotected sex if you're promiscuous, vanilla or otherwise. So all this stuff about responsibility and rationality - it's all relative.... 

I'd say let's just agree to disagree and respect the other's view on something as incomprehensible as human sexuality. Maybe there is no right answer, and we both loose - and my brain just can't take anymore for now. I'm spent. Was it good for you?


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## vardon_grip (Jun 30, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> What the FUCK is wrong with you? You don't decide what anybody is going to be offended by or what their motives are. If you don't like my stanky assed diaper that is your fucking problem and if I don't like what you have to say about it I'm going to fucking say so. How 'bout you shut YO mowf and mind your goddamned business.



Profanity is the attempt of a lazy and feeble mind to express itself forcefully

There isn't anything wrong with me. Try not to be so mad at what you don't understand and I won't be mad at you for not being able to grasp it.

(Hint-This is an example of what I was talking about.)


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## missy_blue_eyez (Jun 30, 2008)

largenlovely said:


> oh i bet i can answer this lol
> 
> transgressive...i felt this way as a teenager. I would sneak food and it made me feel all naughty and rebellious :blush: hehe


OMG I used to do that all the time, I thought I was crazy!!!


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## KHayes666 (Jun 30, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> What the FUCK is wrong with you? You don't decide what anybody is going to be offended by or what their motives are. If you don't like my stanky assed diaper that is your fucking problem and if I don't like what you have to say about it I'm going to fucking say so. How 'bout you shut YO mowf and mind your goddamned business.



"You must spread reputation around before giving it to LillyBBBW"

Damn....eh I still wuv u


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## Tooz (Jun 30, 2008)

vardon_grip said:


> “Profanity is the attempt of a lazy and feeble mind to express itself forcefully”
> 
> There isn't anything wrong with me. Try not to be so mad at what you don't understand and I won't be mad at you for not being able to grasp it.
> 
> (Hint-This is an example of what I was talking about.)



Excuse me, sir. Your high horse is double parked.

Don't mess with my lovely Lilly, please.


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## ripley (Jun 30, 2008)

wrestlingguy said:


> I agree +1. I posted my own observation about time put in as a FA, and how your tastes in what you find erotic could change over time, and it was ignored, as everyone jumped into their personal flames, rather than the merits of the topic in general.
> 
> I mean, you shouldn't respond just because wrestlingguy posted something, but even a broken clock is right a couple of times a day. Christ, get over yourselves already..............



I repped you and thanked you.  I wish this could have gotten back on track but I don't think it's going to go beyond the mud slinging, and I'm sorry for that.



LillyBBBW said:


> You don't decide what anybody is going to be offended by or what their motives are.



Ah, but so many have flat-out stated what *my* motives are, and that my word choice proves I'm the queen of all haters. Funny how what's good for the goose is anathema to the gander.


-------------------------------------------------------

There are over 200 responses to this poll. As far as I know, that's a huge number of voters for a Dims poll. Obviously some find it of value. As for this being a "bear trap" with "no right answer"...consider this...it's an ANONYMOUS poll. What am I trapping people into? And the fragile new FA with arousal over something I deemed "disgusting"...instead of saying how my wording could irreparably damage them, might it not be instead that he/she could see that 13 other people are aroused by farting and hygiene issues too and maybe this would make him/her feel less alone?

I'm friends with feeders and feedees alike, I LOVE FAs...so judge me however harshly you want to, I know I am a nice and kind person and that this wasn't me grinding an ax.


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## missy_blue_eyez (Jun 30, 2008)

Again, Ive said it before, but its a real shame this thread turned into another bitch fest....think some interesting stuff could have come out of it but people just decided to go off on one again......


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## KHayes666 (Jun 30, 2008)

missy_blue_eyez said:


> Again, Ive said it before, but its a real shame this thread turned into another bitch fest....think some interesting stuff could have come out of it but people just decided to go off on one again......



Ok back on track.... *runs across the beach, swoops Missy off her feet and kisses her gently as the waves brush against my feet*

Ah damn...wrong fantasy :doh:


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## olwen (Jun 30, 2008)

missy_blue_eyez said:


> Again, Ive said it before, but its a real shame this thread turned into another bitch fest....think some interesting stuff could have come out of it but people just decided to go off on one again......



Maybe at this point, the poll results can speak for themselves.


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## snuggletiger (Jun 30, 2008)

Grown people have different things that turn them on, and if it works for the two people then all is well.


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## exile in thighville (Jun 30, 2008)

vardon_grip said:


> “Profanity is the attempt of a lazy and feeble mind to express itself forcefully”
> 
> There isn't anything wrong with me. Try not to be so mad at what you don't understand and I won't be mad at you for not being able to grasp it.
> 
> (Hint-This is an example of what I was talking about.)



actually, profanity is the spice of the language. a good FUCK has a nice hard rhythm to it* that augments an argument fucking nicely.



*"a good FUCK has a nice hard rhythm to it" - yes i realize the full innuendo implications here, free for all, kids! this one's for george carlin.


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## Tooz (Jun 30, 2008)

exile in thighville said:


> actually, profanity is the spice of the language. a good FUCK has a nice hard rhythm to it* that augments an argument fucking nicely.
> 
> 
> 
> *"a good FUCK has a nice hard rhythm to it" - yes i realize the full innuendo implications here, free for all, kids! this one's for george carlin.



Haha. Thank you for the laugh dear.


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## exile in thighville (Jun 30, 2008)

ripley said:


> I repped you and thanked you.  I wish this could have gotten back on track but I don't think it's going to go beyond the mud slinging, and I'm sorry for that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



are so sure they'll still want to be friends with you when you're constantly prodding them about their motives and risking charges of flat-out bigotry? i think you should get a clipboard and pry your gay friends about their bedlife...it's your birthright, innit? don't forget to pepper your questions with respectful language like "disgusting." if farts offend you, i don't think you want to know where they put those awful things.

ripley, i don't know you personally but i'll level with you. you have a lot of rep and probably a lot of friends around here, probably more than i do. why lower yourself to these voyeuristic queries with a contemptuous edge? i do not know what you hoped to learn from this thread.


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## vardon_grip (Jun 30, 2008)

Tooz said:


> Excuse me, sir. Your high horse is double parked.



Here's a fiver. I won't be long. I'm just getting a venti latte. Thanks!


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 30, 2008)

vardon_grip said:


> Here's a fiver. I won't be long. I'm just getting a venti latte. Thanks!



I'll throw in a triple shot, on the house


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## Tooz (Jun 30, 2008)

exile in thighville said:


> are so sure they'll still want to be friends with you when you're constantly prodding them about their motives and risking charges of flat-out bigotry? i think you should get a clipboard and pry your gay friends about their bedlife...it's your birthright, innit? don't forget to pepper your questions with respectful language like "disgusting." if farts offend you, i don't think you want to know where they put those awful things.
> 
> ripley, i don't know you personally but i'll level with you. you have a lot of rep and probably a lot of friends around here, probably more than i do. why lower yourself to these voyeuristic queries with a contemptuous edge? i do not know what you hoped to learn from this thread.



Time to erect a statue of you in some town in the midwest.


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## exile in thighville (Jun 30, 2008)

Tooz said:


> Time to erect a statue of you in some town in the midwest.



you and your midwest...somewhere i actually visit would be fine! because i'd need to jerk off to it of course.

where's mini at a time like this?


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## Tooz (Jun 30, 2008)

exile in thighville said:


> you and your midwest...somewhere i actually visit would be fine! because i'd need to jerk off to it of course.
> 
> where's mini at a time like this?



Fappin' in Cali, I think.


You may choose the local in the midwest, I shall travel there and construct it.


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## Fascinita (Jun 30, 2008)

exile in thighville said:


> you and your midwest...somewhere i actually visit would be fine! because i'd need to jerk off to it of course.



Lo. The spirit of transgression is alive and well. I think those of us who worry that it died with Luis Bunuel can breathe a sigh of relief.

(That's a jokey-pooh, in case it's not evident.)


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## largenlovely (Jun 30, 2008)

no it seems that it's actually relatively common...so no worries, you're a perfectly normal fat girl  hehe



missy_blue_eyez said:


> OMG I used to do that all the time, I thought I was crazy!!!


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## Fascinita (Jun 30, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> The poll there was "weird/disgusting fetishes/odd sexual desires" or whatever and some of the options were actually farting and stuff like seeing your partner in pain etc and of course one was "fat chicks"
> 
> so, it's just interesting because yeah, puts it in an odd perspective .. "fat chicks" being an option and all. I think most people would die if they knew that there were so many subpreferences and desires within just liking OMGFATGURLZ!



That's interesting. Did it upset you that your own preference would have been branded "disgusting" in the terms of that other poll? Does it make it difficult to hang out at a place like that? Or is that pretty much par for the course everywhere you go, as an FA?


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## ripley (Jun 30, 2008)

exile in thighville said:


> are so sure they'll still want to be friends with you when you're constantly prodding them about their motives and risking charges of flat-out bigotry? i think you should get a clipboard and pry your gay friends about their bedlife...it's your birthright, innit? don't forget to pepper your questions with respectful language like "disgusting." if farts offend you, i don't think you want to know where they put those awful things.
> 
> ripley, i don't know you personally but i'll level with you. you have a lot of rep and probably a lot of friends around here, probably more than i do. why lower yourself to these voyeuristic queries with a contemptuous edge? i do not know what you hoped to learn from this thread.



Isn't this whole "Erotic Weight Gain" forum about people talking about their "bedlife"? Why get prudish about me asking?

I'm not "constantly prodding" anyone about anything. Histrionic much?

I don't feel I lowered myself by making this poll. I actually thought it was a good thing, to have an open discussion about these things. It sure seems to be the gorilla in the room everyone sees but doesn't talk about.

Why is everyone so threatened by it? Why so up in arms? Yeah, I think getting turned on by farts is gross. Big fucking deal. If you like it, have at it! I hope you find someone who shares it too and you live happily ever after. It would not stop me from being your friend, hiring you, talking to you, whatever. You know what? I'm turned on by stuff other people would think is gross. Gay porn makes me happy and there are vast numbers of people in the U.S. that think it's disgusting and sinful. You know how much I care? Not one single bit.

Re the "contemptuous" edge, I have apologized and explained my word choice ad nauseum and I'm not gonna anymore.


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## LillyBBBW (Jun 30, 2008)

ripley said:


> Ah, but so many have flat-out stated what *my* motives are, and that my word choice proves I'm the queen of all haters. Funny how what's good for the goose is anathema to the gander.



First of all, not once have I ever questioned your motives here. I don't particularly care what you motives are since it's not related at all to what I brought up. I didn't like the wording you used, I stated so and moved on, or at least I thought I did. Once I realized this poll, this thread, wasn't my cup of tea I politely moved on and closed the door. I didn't want to be a part of this, I had nothing productive to contribute and didn't want to interfere with whatever it is you are trying to do so I unsubscribed. All was well until you took something I said in another thread where it was completely relevant and appropriate, spliced it up and brought it over here in a thread I had no intentions of posting in. I did not participate in your poll. I do not want to participate in your poll. Please don't add my stuff here, it was intended for someplace else.


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## ripley (Jun 30, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> First of all, not once have I ever questioned your motives here. I don't particularly care what you motives are since it's not related at all to what I brought up. I didn't like the wording you used, I stated so and moved on, or at least I thought I did. Once I realized this poll, this thread, wasn't my cup of tea I politely moved on and closed the door. I didn't want to be a part of this, I had nothing productive to contribute and didn't want to interfere with whatever it is you are trying to do so I unsubscribed. All was well until you took something I said in another thread where it was completely relevant and appropriate, spliced it up and brought it over here in a thread I had no intentions of posting in. I did not participate in your poll. I do not want to participate in your poll. Please don't add my stuff here, it was intended for someplace else.



I didn't splice it up, I took the part I wanted to address and addressed it.

Lilly, I've always liked and respected you. I am sorry that this has made you upset. I didn't say that you had questioned my motives, but many here have. They've ascribed sweeping motives to me, and hinted at many others.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 30, 2008)

olwen said:


> I'd say let's just agree to disagree and respect the other's view on something as incomprehensible as human sexuality. Maybe there is no right answer, and we both loose - and my brain just can't take anymore for now. I'm spent. Was it good for you?



We are 100% in agreement here, Olwen. And it was a pleasure to have this conversation with you, because both of us (for the most part) stuck with an unwritten agreement to remain courteous and civil, and I think we've both kept open minds to the extent that we are able to. 

I did want to add one clarification to what we've discussed, though. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've been assuming that your position was that people always have the power to change the course of their lives. I wanted to address that point, because there is some truth to it ... but one important truth (to me, anyway) in the process of recovery is acknowledging that I am powerless to my addiction. If I give in to it once, I risk losing everything. A tenet in most recovery programs does contain that very concept -- that we (the addicts) are powerless to our drug(s) of choice, whatever that drug may happen to be. Mine wasn't chemical, but it very well may have been. We addicts develop quite predictable patterns of behavior, and very similar coping mechanisms ... of which, when we are using, we convince ourselves are completely unique to our own situations.

EDIT: Oh, and I'm equally exhausted, Olwen. It must have been good for me ... I'm sweating


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## BothGunsBlazing (Jun 30, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> That's interesting. Did it upset you that your own preference would have been branded "disgusting" in the terms of that other poll? Does it make it difficult to hang out at a place like that? Or is that pretty much par for the course everywhere you go, as an FA?



Yeah, it's not really as upsetting as it used to be. I just have this outlook about my preference as being in on something really awesome that other people have a difficult time grasping. Like some kind of totally elite awesome club of fatty lovers that only the super enlightened can be a part of. Yeah, something like that. 

It just really makes you think. What one person finds disgusting can be what makes another person tick. 

As for if it makes it difficult to hang out in a place like that .. I find overall that my friends and others who know of my preference don't take me very seriously when I try to talk about women or give relationship advice because I get the "you like fat girls so what do you know, those girls would be happy just to have you talk to them, so doubt you get any relationship problems or have any real experience"

which is HA! inducing.

and on another note, I think overall this thread just has made me sad. *sigh* the user title remains. haha

oh and all this talk about bear traps and what not in the erotic weight gain forum and no pix to be found. Seriously, if you want to snatch you a proper feedee .. I can think of no better solution.


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## KHayes666 (Jun 30, 2008)

LillyBBBW said:


> First of all, not once have I ever questioned your motives here. I don't particularly care what you motives are since it's not related at all to what I brought up. I didn't like the wording you used, I stated so and moved on, or at least I thought I did. Once I realized this poll, this thread, wasn't my cup of tea I politely moved on and closed the door. I didn't want to be a part of this, I had nothing productive to contribute and didn't want to interfere with whatever it is you are trying to do so I unsubscribed. All was well until you took something I said in another thread where it was completely relevant and appropriate, spliced it up and brought it over here in a thread I had no intentions of posting in. I did not participate in your poll. I do not want to participate in your poll. Please don't add my stuff here, it was intended for someplace else.



lmaoooo @ the last part. If I said that I'd be banned instantly, but thanks for saying it for me


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## JoyJoy (Jun 30, 2008)

KHayes666 said:


> lmaoooo @ the last part. If I said that I'd be banned instantly, but thanks for saying it for me


*Hands Kevin a towel to wipe his sweating brow*


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## KHayes666 (Jun 30, 2008)

JoyJoy said:


> *Hands Kevin a towel to wipe his sweating brow*



Thanks Joy

*wipes*

so close....whew


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## JoyJoy (Jun 30, 2008)

KHayes666 said:


> Thanks Joy
> 
> *wipes*
> 
> so close....whew


 Yeah, it's got to get tiring carrying that load around on your back. I don't envy you.


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## olwen (Jun 30, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> We are 100% in agreement here, Olwen. And it was a pleasure to have this conversation with you, because both of us (for the most part) stuck with an unwritten agreement to remain courteous and civil, and I think we've both kept open minds to the extent that we are able to.
> 
> I did want to add one clarification to what we've discussed, though. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've been assuming that your position was that people always have the power to change the course of their lives. I wanted to address that point, because there is some truth to it ... but one important truth (to me, anyway) in the process of recovery is acknowledging that I am powerless to my addiction. If I give in to it once, I risk losing everything. A tenet in most recovery programs does contain that very concept -- that we (the addicts) are powerless to our drug(s) of choice, whatever that drug may happen to be. Mine wasn't chemical, but it very well may have been. We addicts develop quite predictable patterns of behavior, and very similar coping mechanisms ... of which, when we are using, we convince ourselves are completely unique to our own situations.
> 
> EDIT: Oh, and I'm equally exhausted, Olwen. It must have been good for me ... I'm sweating



Yes, a good discussion in an interesting thread. 

That is exactly how I feel. I do believe we have to power to control what we can - whatever that is to each person. As I see it, acknowledging the power an addiction has over you is a way to take control.

Good, I'm glad. I do believe I need a shower now.  :blush:


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## furious styles (Jun 30, 2008)

TAKE SIDES EVERYONE! RUN, RUN AND TAKE SIDES!

christ this place is ruthlessly bipartisan


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## Tooz (Jun 30, 2008)

mfdoom said:


> TAKE SIDES EVERYONE! RUN, RUN AND TAKE SIDES!
> 
> christ this place is ruthlessly bipartisan



*Partisan, that would make more sense.




imo.


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## furious styles (Jun 30, 2008)

Tooz said:


> *Partisan, that would make more sense.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



i say tripartisan

maybe quadripartisan



dodecapartisan?


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## missy_blue_eyez (Jun 30, 2008)

largenlovely said:


> no it seems that it's actually relatively common...so no worries, you're a perfectly normal fat girl  hehe


Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh *phew* I was worried for so long about that.....to be honest even these days if theres something that Im terrified of my mom seeing me eating Ill run off an try not to let her see.. OMG im 23 years of age and worried about my mom telling me off for eating cake!!! 'kinell...anyway back to topic.....well seems thats out the window anyway so no matter!


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## largenlovely (Jun 30, 2008)

my mom griped about gaining weight from it and that type of stuff...but really we were so poor that they were more upset about me spending money on fast food (even my OWN money when i was working lol) So if i'd want McD's, i'd go to the drive thru and sit in the parking lot and then dispose of the evidence...it was kind of my own private "fuck you" lol



missy_blue_eyez said:


> Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh *phew* I was worried for so long about that.....to be honest even these days if theres something that Im terrified of my mom seeing me eating Ill run off an try not to let her see.. OMG im 23 years of age and worried about my mom telling me off for eating cake!!! 'kinell...anyway back to topic.....well seems thats out the window anyway so no matter!


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## snuggletiger (Jun 30, 2008)

Thats a bummer you had to go through that.


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## snuggletiger (Jun 30, 2008)

Ooooh where's the princess?


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## missy_blue_eyez (Jun 30, 2008)

largenlovely said:


> my mom griped about gaining weight from it and that type of stuff...but really we were so poor that they were more upset about me spending money on fast food (even my OWN money when i was working lol) So if i'd want McD's, i'd go to the drive thru and sit in the parking lot and then dispose of the evidence...it was kind of my own private "fuck you" lol


Yep Ive done that too!!! Oh my gosh, Im normal! Thank fuck a duck for that! The more my mom used to get on at me about eating something Id make a big point of eating it and then have seconds lol! jus to really wind her up!


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## largenlovely (Jun 30, 2008)

lol i think it's funny how some of us developed the "fuck you" attitude ..rebellious shits that we are lol



missy_blue_eyez said:


> Yep Ive done that too!!! Oh my gosh, Im normal! Thank fuck a duck for that! The more my mom used to get on at me about eating something Id make a big point of eating it and then have seconds lol! jus to really wind her up!


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## AnnMarie (Jun 30, 2008)

Couple of housekeeping notes. 

No name-calling, no attacks. 

If someone has posted something in another thread or another forum, you can't bring that conversation and discussion here - address it there, on topic, or don't.... if someone has not said it in this thread, then you shouldn't be bringing their quotes here.

We're currently evaluating the merit of keeping this thread open. For now, it is. If we close it, there will be a posted closing notice. 

Thank you. 

/mod


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## Tooz (Jun 30, 2008)

snuggletiger said:


> Ooooh where's the princess?



She's in another castle.


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## snuggletiger (Jun 30, 2008)

How come a princess never invites a cute cuddly attentive yet snarky snuggletiger over for cookies, and coffee or even tea perchance?


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## waldo (Jun 30, 2008)

ripley said:


> I repped you and thanked you.  *I wish this could have gotten back on track *but I don't think it's going to go beyond the mud slinging, and I'm sorry for that.
> [snip]
> I'm friends with feeders and feedees alike, I LOVE FAs...so judge me however harshly you want to, I know I am a nice and kind person and that this wasn't me grinding an ax.



Well it seems things have calmed down a bit. Obviously, it is a bit difficult to admit to one's inner fantasies in a group comprised partly of those who are disapproving of such. I can somewhat understand the concerns of the SSBBWs regarding the real-life intentions of FAs who admit to harboring some of the more extreme fantasies. I do get turned on by the immobility thing and answered as such in this poll. :blush: However, I don't believe I would actually like being involved with someone who is so fat to be incapacitated. In particular, the discomfort or unhappiness this may cause the fat partner would definitely be a buzz kill. I recall about 2 years ago a documentary on TLC or one of those other cable channels which profiled a woman of over 600 pounds who was struggling with daily life and there was a scene where she was trying to squeeze into a minivan and someone was pushing to get her in there. I watched the show and was upset by it, particularly that scene. It made me uncomfortable/ashamed that I was physically attracted to the woman who was clearly suffering with her condition. As was briefly mentioned earlier in this thread, FA fantasies are explored in a large collection of fiction in the Weight Room section here on Dimensions and the Wilson Barbers collection also accessible from the Weight Room. Reading some of those stories may be useful for the genuinely curious regarding the inner workings of the FA/feeder mind. Then again sometimes either you get it or you don't.


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## ripley (Jul 1, 2008)

AnnMarie said:


> If someone has posted something in another thread or another forum, you can't bring that conversation and discussion here - address it there, on topic, or don't.... if someone has not said it in this thread, then you shouldn't be bringing their quotes here.



If this is to me, I did so because they were specifically referring to this thread, and the thread they were doing so in, you said not to talk about it there.

It won't happen again.


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## exile in thighville (Jul 3, 2008)

ripley said:


> Isn't this whole "Erotic Weight Gain" forum about people talking about their "bedlife"? Why get prudish about me asking?
> 
> I'm not "constantly prodding" anyone about anything. Histrionic much?
> 
> ...



they're (really this place) threatened by it (really just appalled at the attitude) because it's intolerant (really just annoying). like, no one cares what you think is gross (really fascinating at a distance you can control by elevating your interests above others'). that's why people who think gay sex is gross (really curious) are encouraged to KEEP IT RESPECTFULLY TO THEMSELVES (really curious). or uh, don't watch gay porn (reeeeeeeally curious). the situation kind of resolves itself (at a distance you can control by elevating your interests above others').

"prudish," now there's a word choice.


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## LoveBHMS (Jul 3, 2008)

ripley said:


> Isn't this whole "Erotic Weight Gain" forum about people talking about their "bedlife"? Why get prudish about me asking?
> 
> I'm not "constantly prodding" anyone about anything. Histrionic much?
> 
> ...



It's not being prudish and we're not threatened.

I can't speak for anyone else but I'll tell you why this poll bothered me. It bothered me because it was made by somebody who is not into feederism.

The Weight Board is for discussion of feederism. It's not here for the amusement or entertainment of others. We fetishists come here to discuss our sexuality. We'd like to have those discussions without being asked to explain ourselves or lay out our personal feelings and orientations just to satisfy other people's curiousity. Candidly, I don't _care_ if you're curious. Why should we feel a need to discuss something so personal and private as our sexual orientation with people who don't share it?

When the discussion came up about having the private 450+ thread, numerous well meaning FAs said they'd like to be able to see it so they could better understand SSBBW and their lives and issues. Many of you got angry and rightfully said you did not wish to be educational material. Well, many of us feel the same way. We want to be able to discuss our issues without having to answer to people who don't share them.

I'm in no way saying that life as a fetishist compares with the tribulations of being a SSBBW. But consider that many of us have at times felt odd or freakish or simply wondered why we were turned on by certain things. 

Being able to come here and chat with others and say "Oh SHIT! You like that too?" or "You had that reaction to Charlie and the Chocolate Factory?" or "THAT turns you on too, I thought i was the only one" is important to us.

But it seems that many of the same posters who valued their own privacy about their issues see nothing wrong with coming to our board and asking us to complete *surveys.* The Main Board has occaisionally had threads along the lines of "Why are you fat?" but they are never ever ever started by thin people, nor should they be.

It's not prudish to decline to lay out your own sexuality simply to appease another's curiosity. I sure hope you don't visit gay boards and ask them to explain in detail why they participate in the activities they do.


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## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)

Hell, I'd ask the same questions, and I'm a fetishist. Also a FA and a lover of beautiful women, but I digress. I'm curious; why aren't you?

This would be a perfectly valid thread if started by somebody who was into feederism; it also happens to be a perfectly valid thread PERIOD. Since when did we become so concerned with the messenger over the message? Yeah, fine, petition the mods to close this thread; I'd be more than happy to rephrase the questions a bit and repost the same damn thing - this is something that is a part of fat fetishism/sexuality/wanking, and it needs to be explored. We have a perfectly good thread to explore it in, and NOBODY SAYS A FUCKING THING because the thread devolved into drama in the first few pages. Everybody says it's the language that's silencing people, I say bullshit! The reason very few people are speaking up about how they feel about this thread topic is because there's no room to in between the complaints over semantics and other peoples personal history.

A poor word choice or two has not sent this discussion spiraling into the ground; the discussion over whether or not a poor word choice or two has sent this discussion spiraling into the ground HAS.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jul 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> It's not being prudish and we're not threatened.
> 
> I can't speak for anyone else but I'll tell you why this poll bothered me. It bothered me because it was made by somebody who is not into feederism.
> 
> ...



So is it bad for someone to come here to try to learn about this stuff? I for example am not into the feeder/feedee stuff. Part of me gets angry about some of the things I hear (the maniplative partners and such) and then part of me is, for lack of a better word, curious. Not curious in a OMG you're such a freak how can you like that kind of way, but curious in I dont understand it, am not neccesarily turned on by it but not really turned off by all of it either and would like to understand the dynamics.


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## LoveBHMS (Jul 3, 2008)

I'll tread delicately here.

I'm not a SSBBW. Now supposed I was curious as to how one became one. Suppose the 450+ thread was open and I went on it with everyone's full knowledge that i was not that size.

What if I not only drafted a survey about how people got to be that size, but attached traditional bias/prejudice to that survey. For instance, what if my questions were along the lines of:

Are you SS because you sit around shoveling pork rinds down your throat 24/7?

Are you SS because you're too lazy to exercise?

Are you SS because your husband/boyfriend is an FA and you feel you have to stay that size or he'll leave you?

For a non SSBBW to do that would be rude and insulting. It would be even more insulting to use stereotypes of a group to which i do not belong.

But whether or not I'm curious about my own sexuality is wholly different from feeling as if I should satisfy somebody else's curiousity.



Wagimawr said:


> Hell, I'd ask the same questions, and I'm a fetishist. Also a FA and a lover of beautiful women, but I digress. I'm curious; why aren't you?


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## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)

Which is understandable; but I have to say the language used in your hypothetical poll is WAY more inflammatory than the language used here.

My major issue here is that such concerns keep reappearing and reappearing throughout this thread, with nobody able to discuss the topic at hand edgewise. So what do we do when a thread is phrased not-quite-right? Burn it to the ground and start again? I would think posters here would be able to move past that and address the topic at hand, rather than complain for 10 pages about how a few words weren't quite to their liking.


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## LoveBHMS (Jul 3, 2008)

> So is it bad for someone to come here to try to learn about this stuff? I for example am not into the feeder/feedee stuff. Part of me gets angry about some of the things I hear (the maniplative partners and such) and then part of me is, for lack of a better word, curious. Not curious in a OMG you're such a freak how can you like that kind of way, but curious in I dont understand it, am not neccesarily turned on by it but not really turned off by all of it either and would like to understand the dynamics.



Manipulation is hardly the exclusive province of feeders. Anyone, male or female can manipulate a partner by threatening to withold affection if a demand is not met. A woman can withold sex if her husband does not buy her a diamond necklace or a man can become moody and withdrawn if his wife won't have a threesome. Manipulation, mean-ness, dishonesty, and disrespect can happen anywhere.

I also feel like there is a difference between trying to learn and making some of us feel as if we're freaks under a microscope. Oftentimes a person will express a fantasy and people will attack or criticize him. It's very often not about just understanding. I'm the first to admit I come here to Dims and learn about things that are not within my daily life experience.

There is a difference between discussion amongst those of us who share it and those of us who don't. That's true for the whole board. I remember one time a woman posted on the clothing board that she planned a trip to NYC and was looking for plus size clothing stores. Thinking I was being helpful, I chimed in with the names and addresses of several upscale shops I knew about. I was subsequently informed that those shops only carried up to a 24 and she'd clearly said she was a 32. Even though I was well meaning, since I'm not plus sized i should have just kept my mouth shut when it came to giving out advice on plus sized stores. In other words, some discussions I should not join because they're not about me.


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## Olga_NYC (Jul 3, 2008)

I'm a FFA and I don't get feederism. I think people are entitled to living their lives as they wish. However, would you be turned on by the fact that you've been feeding your partner massive amounts of food (and way beyond fullness) with the purpose of them becoming immobile/disabled? 

I mean, there's a huge difference between say, my partner chooses to eat large amounts of food because they're hungry. (I'm not gonna stop a person from eating). But I'm not going to encourage them to eat "beyond what they would naturally eat", or to gain more weight than they would naturally gain, just to satisfy a fantasy that I have which involves disability.

I do find fat people attractive. It's just feederism that I can't quite understand. But I guess we're free people and we need to make our own choices :bow:


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## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> I also feel like there is a difference between trying to learn and making some of us feel as if we're freaks under a microscope. Oftentimes a person will express a fantasy and people will attack or criticize him. It's very often not about just understanding. I'm the first to admit I come here to Dims and learn about things that are not within my daily life experience.


The only attacking and criticism I've seen here has been towards the OP - so is this an issue of a linguistics mistake, or a turf war?


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## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)

Olga_NYC said:


> However, would you be turned on by the fact that you've been feeding your partner massive amounts of food (and way beyond fullness) with the purpose of them becoming immobile/disabled?


That's why we need threads like this, because yes, some people are. Will they act on it? Probably not, but they're at least aroused by it, and deserve a place to say "hey, this turns me on".


Olga_NYC said:


> I mean, there's a huge difference between say, my partner chooses to eat large amounts of food because they're hungry. (I'm not gonna stop a person from eating). But I'm not going to encourage them to eat "beyond what they would naturally eat", or to gain more weight than they would naturally gain, just to satisfy a fantasy that I have which involves disability.


Well, that issue sprung up in this thread and sprouted another thread, the one about feeders and the difference between fantasy and reality; another issue that needs to be discussed.


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## olwen (Jul 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> I'll tread delicately here.
> 
> I'm not a SSBBW. Now supposed I was curious as to how one became one. Suppose the 450+ thread was open and I went on it with everyone's full knowledge that i was not that size.
> 
> ...



Wanting to understand about feederism is not the same as asking a feeder/gainer to justify their existence. I don't have to justify myself to people who don't understand BDSM, but I can try to help them wrap their brains around it when they are curious about it. I'd rather have someone try to understand me than just dismiss me out of hand as a perverted wacko. 

Obviously, you feel strongly about the evocative word choices.....wouldn't it be more helpful to dispel whatever myths/misrepresentations you think we might have by sharing your experiences instead of just expressing anger over the word choice? 

This thread is only going to be about understanding if we all make an effort to not only understand, but to be understood.


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## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)

olwen said:


> Obviously, you feel strongly about the evocative word choices.....wouldn't it be more helpful to dispel whatever myths/misrepresentations you think we might have by sharing your experiences instead of just expressing anger over the word choice?
> 
> This thread is only going to be about understanding if we all make an effort to not only understand, but to be understood.


QFT, +1, This., all of the above.

As I've said, most of this thread has been complaints about the word choices - why not talk about the issues at hand instead?


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## olwen (Jul 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Manipulation is hardly the exclusive province of feeders. Anyone, male or female can manipulate a partner by threatening to withold affection if a demand is not met. A woman can withold sex if her husband does not buy her a diamond necklace or a man can become moody and withdrawn if his wife won't have a threesome. Manipulation, mean-ness, dishonesty, and disrespect can happen anywhere.
> 
> I also feel like there is a difference between trying to learn and making some of us feel as if we're freaks under a microscope. Oftentimes a person will express a fantasy and people will attack or criticize him. It's very often not about just understanding. I'm the first to admit I come here to Dims and learn about things that are not within my daily life experience.
> 
> *There is a difference between discussion amongst those of us who share it and those of us who don't. That's true for the whole board. I remember one time a woman posted on the clothing board that she planned a trip to NYC and was looking for plus size clothing stores. Thinking I was being helpful, I chimed in with the names and addresses of several upscale shops I knew about. I was subsequently informed that those shops only carried up to a 24 and she'd clearly said she was a 32. Even though I was well meaning, since I'm not plus sized i should have just kept my mouth shut when it came to giving out advice on plus sized stores. In other words, some discussions I should not join because they're not about me.*



This clothing issue and the sexuality issue are not comparable. Whether or not you think this shouldn't be in the realm of just any old poster, it will more than likely come up for many of us. I can think of several men over the years who've brought up feeding to me. Doubtless, so can other bbws here. I can remember the first time that happened and how horrified I was. Now when I look back on that I wish I had been more open and just asked him about it with an open mind. If I had known what he felt/experienced it would probably have made me talk to him instead of running for the hills. Understanding this will help a lot of us be able to deal positively with any negative feelings we might have about being asked to participate in kinks that have to do with parts of our bodies that we might not be 100% comfortable with or practices we don't get. 

So see this isn't just about exposing you danged feeders for the outrageously contemptable freaks that you think you already are, it really is about wanting to understand. And in case it isn't clear, yes that was an attempt at humor.


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## LoveBHMS (Jul 3, 2008)

Truthfully for me it's not as much the linguistics. I don't want to say "turf war" but the Weight Board was created for discussion of feederism. One of the rules about only allowing positive talk was, I think, to discourage those who don't participate in it to come here and criticize.

I actually had a discussion with a mod about my discomfort with the perennial "I don't GET IT" posts. She said those would be allowed so long as they are respectful. I feel as if the Weight Board should be here for fetishists to discuss fetish issues, not for us to answer questions about them.

There is a thread on here about feeling better when fatter. I can't see where it would be appropriate or respectful for me to hop over there and say "Ok guys but HOW can you feel better being 350 and above when it causes issues with airline seating and booths?" I see that thread as a discussion thread for people who enjoy being fatter; i don't see it as an open discussion where others should ask questions or challenge the women on WHY they like being heavier.




Wagimawr said:


> The only attacking and criticism I've seen here has been towards the OP - so is this an issue of a linguistics mistake, or a turf war?


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## ripley (Jul 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> The Weight Board is for discussion of feederism. It's not here for the amusement or entertainment of others. We fetishists come here to discuss our sexuality. We'd like to have those discussions without being asked to explain ourselves or lay out our personal feelings and orientations just to satisfy other people's curiousity. Candidly, I don't _care_ if you're curious. Why should we feel a need to discuss something so personal and private as our sexual orientation with people who don't share it?
> 
> When the discussion came up about having the private 450+ thread, numerous well meaning FAs said they'd like to be able to see it so they could better understand SSBBW and their lives and issues. Many of you got angry and rightfully said you did not wish to be educational material. Well, many of us feel the same way. We want to be able to discuss our issues without having to answer to people who don't share them.
> 
> ...



*
THIS BOARD IS NOT A PRIVATE BOARD. * Thusly I, or anyone else, can come here and participate. Don't like it? Tough shit.

I did not ask ANYONE to explain themselves or lay out their personal feelings. It is a fucking ANONYMOUS poll. One that if you and dan got your heads out of your asses for two fucking minutes you could see that it's been answered by what, almost 250 people now? You're trying to silence me but *they* are the ones you are silencing.

It is not idle curiosity; it is curiosity from someone who talks to FAs every single day, and hopes to one day date or even marry one. I wish to understand them better. Cast that in a negative light if you want to... your opinion means less than zero to me. None of you know what my fantasies are or what I'm interested in. 

The only word on the poll I regret is "disgusting" because I meant the things themselves, and not the people who like them. I apologized and explained, and I won't do that anymore. So rake me over the coals all you want, but this thread has VALUE. If you think I think that because I'm fapping over the responses from anonymous people you're so far off the mark it's not even funny.


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## ripley (Jul 3, 2008)

P.S. This thread was dead (happily). If you find it so egregious and horrible, why revive it? What's your motivation (except revenge on me for my views of you after canklegate)?


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## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Truthfully for me it's not as much the linguistics. I don't want to say "turf war" but the Weight Board was created for discussion of feederism. One of the rules about only allowing positive talk was, I think, to discourage those who don't participate in it to come here and criticize.
> 
> I actually had a discussion with a mod about my discomfort with the perennial "I don't GET IT" posts. She said those would be allowed so long as they are respectful. I feel as if the Weight Board should be here for fetishists to discuss fetish issues, not for us to answer questions about them.


I've seen no judgment, again, except towards the OP. I've talked to the OP personally and said "y'know, those probably aren't the best words to use" but have been assured there was no ill will meant, and furthermore, I figured I'm not sure I know a better way to bring up the topic. Again (again again) If people would STOP KVETCHING ABOUT THE LANGUAGE and start discussing the issues, this thread would be doing just fine.

Also, trust the mods. If this thread were really running rampant with the negativity that everybody assumes it has, then it would have been moved out of the PROTECTED section on day one; it hasn't, so it's valid EXCEPT FOR THE COMPLAINING.



LoveBHMS said:


> I see that thread as a discussion thread for people who enjoy being fatter; i don't see it as an open discussion where others should ask questions or challenge the women on WHY they like being heavier.


This thread began, if I recall correctly, as a way to step out of another thread and examine some issues a little closer - a targeted discussion on a thread where such examination would not have been appropriate. This thread is not invading another space, it's opening up a discussion; or at least that was the intent.


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## LoveBHMS (Jul 3, 2008)

Language is a pretty powerful thing, but as i said above, my primary issue is not with the language. I'm a fetishist and this is part of my sexuality. I guess in part I want to know why others feel they have to understand it, or that any of us even *could* explain it if we wanted to. If you read posts by gainers or FAs they very often reference being fascinated by fat and/or gaining at a very young age. You see many references to cartoons and to children's books that fetishists found appealing long before they were aware of a such a thing as sexual feelings. On some level it seems like asking a gay person precisely *what* he finds sexually arousing about the male body. He might be able to say he likes hard pecs or long lean legs, but he likely can't articulate why he's aroused by males rather than females.

There is also the issue that the poll has nothing to do with feederism, it has to do with an FA's appeal towards a BBW/SSBBW. For that reason alone, i'm not sure why it's in the "Erotic Weight Gain" thread. It only refers to size and size related issues, it does not say "turned on by watching her grow" or "turned on by watching her be unable to fit into older clothes."


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## ripley (Jul 3, 2008)

I put it here to, ironically, stop it from being negative.


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## Santaclear (Jul 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> We want to be able to discuss our issues without having to answer to people who don't share them.



The poll isn't mandatory. The thread isn't mandatory. You don't have to answer the poll if you don't want to. Privacy not invaded. Why should there be any more to it than that?


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## LoveBHMS (Jul 3, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


> I've seen no judgment, again, except towards the OP. I've talked to the OP personally and said "y'know, those probably aren't the best words to use" but have been assured there was no ill will meant, and furthermore, I figured I'm not sure I know a better way to bring up the topic. Again (again again) If people would STOP KVETCHING ABOUT THE LANGUAGE and start discussing the issues, this thread would be doing just fine.
> 
> Also, trust the mods. If this thread were really running rampant with the negativity that everybody assumes it has, then it would have been moved out of the PROTECTED section on day one; it hasn't, so it's valid EXCEPT FOR THE COMPLAINING.
> 
> This thread began, if I recall correctly, as a way to step out of another thread and examine some issues a little closer - a targeted discussion on a thread where such examination would not have been appropriate. This thread is not invading another space, it's opening up a discussion; or at least that was the intent.



Again, my issue was far less towards the language than the nature of the poll itself. I guess i have trouble understanding why people have a need to understand certain fetishes. If somebody were somehow able to articulate precisely why he or she was turned on by something, who does that benefit? Would anyone move from thinking a fetishist was an awful freak to thinking "Oh, well, if THAT'S why he's into it, I guess it's ok."

The only reason I used an analogy of certain language in a poll geared towards another thread was to show that people might not like being asked questions of a personal nature and I do consider sexuality to be something of a personal nature.


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## Dr. P Marshall (Jul 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Again, my issue was far less towards the language than the nature of the poll itself. I guess i have trouble understanding why people have a need to understand certain fetishes. If somebody were somehow able to articulate precisely why he or she was turned on by something, who does that benefit? Would anyone move from thinking a fetishist was an awful freak to thinking "Oh, well, if THAT'S why he's into it, I guess it's ok."
> 
> The only reason I used an analogy of certain language in a poll geared towards another thread was to show that people might not like being asked questions of a personal nature and I do consider sexuality to be something of a personal nature.



As I understand it, this poll was placed in this section because it was the only section of the boards where those responding could be protected. That is why it is here. But again, as I understand it, it was placed here so it could be protected even though it is not about feederism. This poll is not about feederism. It was placed here to protect FAs with the fetishes that are listed and offer them the same protections that are usually reserved only for feeders. So, this is actually not talking about the feederism sexuality at all. That only came up because someone else decided to bring it up in the thread. Actually, immobility is the only thing even remotely feeder related in the poll and it doesn't necessarily say you want to feed someone to immobility, so again, not about feederism. 

I understand that it bothers you. Ripley apologized and explained and actually made an effort to understand those of us who had trouble with the wording. It was pretty much resolved. This was an instance where semantics derailed the entire thing. The first 5-6 pages of this thread were actually constructive and things were going well and as a community we were actually starting to get somewhere. That may be of no interest to you, fine, but for some of us it is. Some of us who are your fellow fetishists and feeders. Maybe some of us would like to be better understood. She asked about the what, not the how or the why. She did not want to know why on earth we felt that way, she just wanted to know if we did. Those of us who chose to share our stories for the benefit of greater understanding did so, those who do not want to should just not answer the poll. Some of us would like to have constructive discussions across community lines. This thread started with that potential. You have every right not to answer just as _I_ have every right TO answer if I choose. 

There was misunderstanding evident in the wording of the poll, but no attack. And, the nice thing is, Ripley actually felt she learned something once the problem with the wording was explained. And if everyone could have just moved on from that, maybe even more people would have responded and there would have been even more understanding. 

Really, no one was trying to use us as a sociological experiment in this thread.

Oh and maybe some people want to understand because although it is not their fetish, they may some day find themselves in a relationship with an FA or feeder who does have the fetish and the more they feel they understand the less frightened they will be or the more they will know about their own desire to participate and to what degree. That's just my guess anyway.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jul 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> *Manipulation is hardly the exclusive province of feeders. *Anyone, male or female can manipulate a partner by threatening to withold affection if a demand is not met. A woman can withold sex if her husband does not buy her a diamond necklace or a man can become moody and withdrawn if his wife won't have a threesome. Manipulation, mean-ness, dishonesty, and disrespect can happen anywhere.
> 
> I also feel like there is a difference between trying to learn and making some of us feel as if we're freaks under a microscope. Oftentimes a person will express a fantasy and people will attack or criticize him. It's very often not about just understanding. I'm the first to admit I come here to Dims and learn about things that are not within my daily life experience.
> 
> There is a difference between discussion amongst those of us who share it and those of us who don't. That's true for the whole board. I remember one time a woman posted on the clothing board that she planned a trip to NYC and was looking for plus size clothing stores. Thinking I was being helpful, I chimed in with the names and addresses of several upscale shops I knew about. I was subsequently informed that those shops only carried up to a 24 and she'd clearly said she was a 32. *Even though I was well meaning, since I'm not plus sized i should have just kept my mouth shut when it came to giving out advice on plus sized stores. In other words, some discussions I should not join because they're not about me*.





You are correct, manipulation isn't found in feeder relationships only, but when I hear about the feeder/feedee stuff that's the theme in the majority of stories I hear. That's why I come to this board to try to get a better grasp, to hear stories that aren't that way. Largenlovely and Bruce are a good example of that and I've learned quite a bit and have found myself more understanding because of posts made by LnL. 



As for the plus size clothing thing, no I dont think you should have kept your mouth shut. You were trying to help, there are women on these boards who wear a size 24 and lower (myself being one of them) and I don't think you did anything wrong there. 

I think that by saying you don't participate, you aren't fat, you aren't a woman so you dont belong here and shouldn't post here just does everyone a disservice. We can all learn from and about each other but if we keep drawing lines in the sand saying this is your side and this is my side no one is going to get anywhere. People are going to continue to think that a feeder/feedee relationship is this ugly thing because they can't go anywhere to learn different.


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## LoveBHMS (Jul 3, 2008)

Ella Bella said:


> You are correct, manipulation isn't found in feeder relationships only, but when I hear about the feeder/feedee stuff that's the theme in the majority of stories I hear. That's why I come to this board to try to get a better grasp, to hear stories that aren't that way. Largenlovely and Bruce are a good example of that and I've learned quite a bit and have found myself more understanding because of posts made by LnL.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



True, but so many of these posts are along the lines of us being asked to explain ourselves. On some level, how can you explain a fetish? It's like trying to articulate precisely _why_ you love the taste of spearmint Tic-Tacs or impressionism or country music. I mean I don't understand why I enjoy some of these activities. I also believe that to a large degree the cliche "male feeder force feeds helpless submissive woman till she dies" model exists to rob women of their sexuality. IOW, it totally ignores the idea that a feedee/gainer might be a willing and eager participant in such activity. In the same vein, it always interests me when people say a female feeder is somewhat derivative a woman feeding or nuturing others and is maybe a natural outgrowth of doing that. To me it's totally a sexual thing, it has nothing to do with enjoying cooking or taking care of a partner.

What gets frustrating is when we see others being critical of fetish issues and then coming to the Weight Board. Some of us feel like "You've already said you don't like this stuff....so why are you here?" There are also numerous cases where somebody winds up being criticized for talking about a fetish or fantasy. 

On one thread a man wondered out loud how it would be to have sex with a 750 pound woman and several SSBBW came over and said how offended they were by that post. But it was not directed at any individual or even at 750 pound women in general, he was merely expressing a fantasy and wanting to talk about it.

I see what you mean about lines in the sand, but sometimes i think there are fair barriers to draw. There are FFAs on this board, but I think it would be wrong for us to have threads on the clothing board about sales at Banana Republic or other non-plus size stores. It's subtle, but I think it's certainly received differently if a BBW starts a "Why Are You Fat" thread than if a smaller FFA or even a male FA did so.


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## Tooz (Jul 3, 2008)

ripley said:


> P.S. This thread was dead (happily). If you find it so egregious and horrible, why revive it? What's your motivation (except revenge on me for my views of you after canklegate)?



I like how this is mentioned when there really is no reason to do so. Paranoia, what what?

Also, I, as previously stated, feel that this thread is less than necessary. I understand there are people that are ~curious~-- I'm curious about a lot of things, but I know when it might be a good idea not to ask.


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## snuggletiger (Jul 3, 2008)

I am curious about Canklegate. Lets just agree everyone has different tastes and not get in an uproar if someones' tastes are different.


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## JoyJoy (Jul 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> What gets frustrating is when we see others being critical of fetish issues and then coming to the Weight Board. Some of us feel like "You've already said you don't like this stuff....so why are you here?" There are also numerous cases where somebody winds up being criticized for talking about a fetish or fantasy.


Not trying to beat a dead horse, but it's a great analogy for this statement, so I'm going to use it. 

It is very possible that having a distaste for something can spur a desire to understand it better and examine it, so being critical of something doesn't mean a person can't grow beyond it and become more tolerant, or even accepting. I know lots of people are questioning why you are back on this forum, given recent history (NOT looking to start a flame war, trying to make a point...read on). Those same people don't welcome you being here because of the distaste you previously expressed. I won't even guess or ask for an explanation of your motives for being here(nor am I interested), because they're your issues, and you're here and there's nothing I can do about it. My point being...it's not up to me to decide the appropriateness of your presence here, even if it offends me, and neither is it your place to decide the appropriateness of someone else on this board, regardless of feelings that have been expressed in the past. If coming here to ask questions or create polls or whatever is their way of working through personal issues, they have that option, just as you have the option to not respond.


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## TraciJo67 (Jul 3, 2008)

Tooz said:


> I like how this is mentioned when there really is no reason to do so. Paranoia, what what?
> 
> Also, I, as previously stated, feel that this thread is less than necessary. I understand there are people that are ~curious~-- I'm curious about a lot of things, but I know when it might be a good idea not to ask.



You know when it's a good idea for *you* to not ask. You don't get to presume what is/is not appropriate for others.


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## Tooz (Jul 3, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> You know when it's a good idea for *you* to not ask. You don't get to presume what is/is not appropriate for others.



No, dear, my point was there are places and times where it's NEVER good to ask.

Period.

That was what I was saying.

_I_ don't get to presume? Wow, considering the source, that provided for a good laugh.


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## TraciJo67 (Jul 3, 2008)

Tooz said:


> No, dear, my point was there are places and times where it's NEVER good to ask.
> 
> Period.
> 
> ...



Tooz, you are all over the board, pointing out behaviors that you disagree with and snarking at others if they don't hold an opinion similar to yours. You seem especially caught up in the so-called "rules" of the board, never catching on to the irony that your own behavior often seems to be in direct conflict with those rules. That's my opinion. That's what I presume. 

I've gone out of my way, many times, to state that my position on certain issues is not the be-all to end-all, nor is it meant to be judgment, nor is it THE GOSPEL TRUTH. You are intent on painting me into that corner -- you and a few others who have, I presume (yes, I'm presuming) similar reasons for attributing these motives to me. 

Another irony ... coming from someone who professes to dislike "judgment" of any kind (that is, when you're assuming that an observation is the same thing as judgment) ... 

... you get to decide behaviors that are/are not appropriate? Who died and made you Supreme Ruler?


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## Ivy (Jul 3, 2008)

Tooz said:


> Also, I, as previously stated, feel that this thread is less than necessary. I understand there are people that are ~curious~-- I'm curious about a lot of things, but I know when it might be a good idea not to ask.



exactly what she said.

there are some things i'd love to ask people, but i don't because i know that a) it's rude, b) it's none of my business, and c) if i don't get it now, i probably never will.


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## Tooz (Jul 3, 2008)

Before I forget: what if someone had told you [non-specific use here] "tough shit" when you said you wanted a private forum for 450+?


Really.


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## LoveBHMS (Jul 3, 2008)

JoyJoy said:


> Not trying to beat a dead horse, but it's a great analogy for this statement, so I'm going to use it.
> 
> It is very possible that having a distaste for something can spur a desire to understand it better and examine it, so being critical of something doesn't mean a person can't grow beyond it and become more tolerant, or even accepting. I know lots of people are questioning why you are back on this forum, given recent history (NOT looking to start a flame war, trying to make a point...read on). Those same people don't welcome you being here because of the distaste you previously expressed. I won't even guess or ask for an explanation of your motives for being here(nor am I interested), because they're your issues, and you're here and there's nothing I can do about it. My point being...it's not up to me to decide the appropriateness of your presence here, even if it offends me, and neither is it your place to decide the appropriateness of someone else on this board, regardless of feelings that have been expressed in the past. If coming here to ask questions or create polls or whatever is their way of working through personal issues, they have that option, just as you have the option to not respond.



Joy this is going to surprise you but I think you are absolutely right.

I've openly admitted I have issues with size and my own body. Being on Dims and seeing women who like themselves has helped me tremendously. There are posters on here for whom I do have actual jealousy because of their poise and confidence with their bodies. 

None of us our perfect, and i've come to grips with the fact I'll probably *never* have the confidence of some of these women. I was chatting with a SSBBW about the fact that I was at the last Mem Day bash and I was too scared to wear a bathing suit. In fact, another average sized woman and I were the only two who wouldn't go swimming. That's a pretty wild thing for us to have realized.

As Saucy pointed out, self examination is a good thing. For all of us.


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## JoyJoy (Jul 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Joy this is going to surprise you but I think you are absolutely right.
> 
> I've openly admitted I have issues with size and my own body. Being on Dims and seeing women who like themselves has helped me tremendously. There are posters on here for whom I do have actual jealousy because of their poise and confidence with their bodies.
> 
> ...


 Thank you. Then I hope you (and others who agree with you or have a problem with this thread) can see that ripley's intent was not to vilify those with the fetishes mentioned, but truly to learn more about them and try to understand them better. She also did not make it mandatory (as if) for people to respond in thread if they aren't comfortable sharing.


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## wrestlingguy (Jul 3, 2008)

I'm not a mod, but I have to remind all of you that point fingers at others that when you do, there are typically some of your own fingers pointing back at yourself.

I post on many boards here. I have a right to do so, provided I stay within the rules for each board. I also have a right to disagree with anyone I choose, as long as it stays within the rules of the board.

My quest for knowledge here brings me to most of the discussion boards. If I were limited, I believe that I wouldn't want to participate in the Dims community any longer.

I'm guessing about the history of Dims here, but I'm gonna venture to say that when Conrad started bulletin boards here ages ago, there were probably just one or two. As LoveBHMS said in a previous thread:



> Again, my issue was far less towards the language than the nature of the poll itself. I guess i have trouble understanding why people have a need to understand certain fetishes. If somebody were somehow able to articulate precisely why he or she was turned on by something, who does that benefit?



At the time, *EVERYONE* who came to Dimensions was considered a fetishist. To this day, as you know, most people don't understand us, nor to they care to. It's the nature of the beast known as "the real world". So, Love, those that come here to understand what you consider a fetish may just be the quest for knowledge that some are talking about. People with that knowledge & understanding typically tend to be less judgmental than the ignorant, so wouldn't you want those who want to understand have their time? Your peers, and most of the people here are your peers, are going to be the most understanding people you will encounter in the world. The fact that you have been able to return here & post should prove that out. Even those who were critics of what you said also defended your right to say it, publicly or privately.

I, along with several others, like Mister Guy, posted what I think were very honest and personal responses to the question asked in this poll. I didn't see anyone go EWWWWWW when I articulated what took place in a 2+ year relationship that opened my eyes to Dimensions, and the BBW/FA world. I can't speak for Ripley, but I certainly think that she was on a quest to understand a bit more about what goes on here. Is that such a bad thing? Am I not allowed to post personal responses here about things related to feederism & weight gain just because I'm NOT a feeder? I have a few feeder friends that will tell you that I belong here as much as anyone else.

I think our radar goes up when we come across the assholes that are here for the entertainment, and justifiably so. To come down so hard on someone who searches knowledge denies that person the right to make their own decisions based on fact, and that is beyond unfair.

I have many gay friends, and although it's not my dance, I am always asking them to articulate what their particular attraction is, how they like giving vs. receiving, etc. *Just because I'm not in the band doesn't mean I can't listen to the music!* I might even want to sing a little bit.

Point being made here is that we *all *want to learn. And sometimes we need to suspend judgment just long enough to do that.


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## exile in thighville (Jul 3, 2008)

Ivy said:


> exactly what she said.
> 
> there are some things i'd love to ask people, but i don't because i know that a) it's rude, b) it's none of my business, and c) if i don't get it now, i probably never will.



right. and while you know i'm personally not shy or easily offended if someone wants to know "what we do," the asker's hiya should be a little more respectful than HERE SIT IN THIS PETRI DISH I'LL LABEL


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## Tooz (Jul 3, 2008)

Ivy said:


> exactly what she said.
> 
> there are some things i'd love to ask people, but i don't because i know that a) it's rude, b) it's none of my business, and c) if i don't get it now, i probably never will.



I love you. Please come see me.


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## LoveBHMS (Jul 3, 2008)

Good points Phil. 

Let me ask you something. When the 450+ forum was being created, many FAs said they'd like to be able to read it. Not for fappage or ridicule or invasion of privacy, but to better understand the daily challenges faced by SSBBW. Many of the women said they did not wish to be studied or used for demonstrations. They wanted to discuss their personal issues with others who faced the same challenges and problems *without an audience.*

I said before that I would in no way compare being a fetishist with being a SSBBW. However many of us want to be able to discuss our issues without interuption or without feeling as if we're on display. There are posters here who never seem to tire of pointing out that this forum is public and they are entitled to post whenever they choose. Sure, that's true. But for many of us fetishists, this is a venue where we can talk to like minded people and share weird stories and find some commonality in something that's probably made us feel strange for years.

To be honest, I feel resentful when the same people who demand privacy for their issues insist that our sexuality, and learning about our sexuality should be fair game. 

There are any number of males on Dims who we all know are hard core FAs; Uncanny Bruceman, yourself, Stan, Conrad. Do you think you all should have access to the 450 thread since it would be obvious you'd only be reading it for informative purposes?

Edited to add: Tooz if you want Ivy you gotta get past me.


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## KHayes666 (Jul 3, 2008)

This is faction warefare at its finest. I say we settle this in a battle royal in vegas.....or a 3 legged sack race.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 3, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


> Hell, I'd ask the same questions, and I'm a fetishist. Also a FA and a lover of beautiful women, but I digress. I'm curious; why aren't you?
> 
> This would be a perfectly valid thread if started by somebody who was into feederism; it also happens to be a perfectly valid thread PERIOD. Since when did we become so concerned with the messenger over the message? Yeah, fine, petition the mods to close this thread; I'd be more than happy to rephrase the questions a bit and repost the same damn thing - this is something that is a part of fat fetishism/sexuality/wanking, and it needs to be explored. We have a perfectly good thread to explore it in, and NOBODY SAYS A FUCKING THING because the thread devolved into drama in the first few pages. Everybody says it's the language that's silencing people, I say bullshit! The reason very few people are speaking up about how they feel about this thread topic is because there's no room to in between the complaints over semantics and other peoples personal history.
> 
> A poor word choice or two has not sent this discussion spiraling into the ground; the discussion over whether or not a poor word choice or two has sent this discussion spiraling into the ground HAS.





Wagimawr said:


> The only attacking and criticism I've seen here has been towards the OP - so is this an issue of a linguistics mistake, or a turf war?





Wagimawr said:


> I've seen no judgment, again, except towards the OP. I've talked to the OP personally and said "y'know, those probably aren't the best words to use" but have been assured there was no ill will meant, and furthermore, I figured I'm not sure I know a better way to bring up the topic. Again (again again) If people would STOP KVETCHING ABOUT THE LANGUAGE and start discussing the issues, this thread would be doing just fine.
> 
> Also, trust the mods. If this thread were really running rampant with the negativity that everybody assumes it has, then it would have been moved out of the PROTECTED section on day one; it hasn't, so it's valid EXCEPT FOR THE COMPLAINING.
> 
> This thread began, if I recall correctly, as a way to step out of another thread and examine some issues a little closer - a targeted discussion on a thread where such examination would not have been appropriate. This thread is not invading another space, it's opening up a discussion; or at least that was the intent.



Wow...I am soooo impressed by the young man  :bow:



Santaclear said:


> The poll isn't mandatory. The thread isn't mandatory. You don't have to answer the poll if you don't want to. Privacy not invaded. Why should there be any more to it than that?



Simple logic is always best......



Dr. P Marshall said:


> As I understand it, this poll was placed in this section because it was the only section of the boards where those responding could be protected. That is why it is here. But again, as I understand it, it was placed here so it could be protected even though it is not about feederism. This poll is not about feederism. It was placed here to protect FAs with the fetishes that are listed and offer them the same protections that are usually reserved only for feeders. So, this is actually not talking about the feederism sexuality at all. That only came up because someone else decided to bring it up in the thread. Actually, immobility is the only thing even remotely feeder related in the poll and it doesn't necessarily say you want to feed someone to immobility, so again, not about feederism.
> 
> I understand that it bothers you. Ripley apologized and explained and actually made an effort to understand those of us who had trouble with the wording. It was pretty much resolved. This was an instance where semantics derailed the entire thing. The first 5-6 pages of this thread were actually constructive and things were going well and as a community we were actually starting to get somewhere. That may be of no interest to you, fine, but for some of us it is. Some of us who are your fellow fetishists and feeders. Maybe some of us would like to be better understood. She asked about the what, not the how or the why. She did not want to know why on earth we felt that way, she just wanted to know if we did. Those of us who chose to share our stories for the benefit of greater understanding did so, those who do not want to should just not answer the poll. Some of us would like to have constructive discussions across community lines. This thread started with that potential. You have every right not to answer just as _I_ have every right TO answer if I choose.
> 
> ...



You have always been a class act  







TraciJo67 said:


> You know when it's a good idea for *you* to not ask. You don't get to presume what is/is not appropriate for others.





I concur.....she has always felt free to put her quips into threads all over the board...telling others they should stop posting, etc.....instead of simply unsubscribing from the thread. I really get sick of some of the negativity I see but haven't said one word about it. Don't ask for something you won't give, Tooz.


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## Tooz (Jul 3, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> concur.....she has always felt free to put her quips into threads all over the board...telling others they should stop posting, etc.....instead of simply unsubscribing from the thread. Don't ask for something you won't give, Tooz.



I don't do subscriptions.

However! I don't care if I'm a hypocrite (I'm a bitch when people are being ridiculous and I am not ashamed to say so), but I think everyone else around here should be real about it. Seriously.


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## olwen (Jul 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Good points Phil.
> 
> Let me ask you something. When the 450+ forum was being created, many FAs said they'd like to be able to read it. Not for fappage or ridicule or invasion of privacy, but to better understand the daily challenges faced by SSBBW. Many of the women said they did not wish to be studied or used for demonstrations. They wanted to discuss their personal issues with others who faced the same challenges and problems *without an audience.*
> 
> ...



I wasn't gonna respond to this cause...but I changed my mind. Love, let me start by saying I don't qualify for participation in that thread but I get the need for it. That thread is about health issues and this one is about sexuality. 

Let's do a hypothetical and pretend that you weigh over 500lbs and for whatever reasons don't leave the house much, don't interact with other people, and find this wonderful forum where we can talk to other people in the same situation. Awesome. Then one day you get hit up by some random guy making sexual remarks about stuff that is painful or embarrassing to you - the very stuff this thread just happens to be about. 

Your response could go a couple ways. First, you could be horrified cause you think the guy is (fill in the blank) and you're just at a loss for words, but discover that some of the other people in your situation have the same problem. Neither one of you gets why this random guy would find sexual pleasure in that thing that upsets you. You and all the others are just too upset and stymied to wrap your brains around it and it happens often enough for you all to feel like you're being objectified - hence a private forum. Makes sense to me. I can't see how any woman would want to feel objectified at any size.

The other response could be to flirt with the guy and tease him and have fun with it and it's no big deal, and it's no big deal cause you've been able to see where he's coming from and you're starting to get it. Now imagine how having a space to try to understand those guys would be helpful - especially if it affects you?


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 3, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Wow...I am soooo impressed by the young man  :bow:



Me, too, Green! 

Wagimar... seriously. Rep coming your way as soon as I can. Way to be: eloquent and righteous.


----------



## ripley (Jul 3, 2008)

This poll did not ask anyone to explain their sexuality. It offered an option to vote for those who chose to. 

Another irony...one of the defenses offered for canklegate (and I'll bring it up wherever I please, thanks) is that love dubh joined to study us as a subculture...with no interest in dating a fat person or becoming one herself. FAs are my dating pool, yet I am not allowed to ask about what turns them on? You can think my question was rude, ill-mannered, nosy, whatever...I don't care. I know, and people I respect know, that I did this because I want to learn about the men that I'm interested in. And I did. So despite all your rancor, I am still behind this thread, and still think it has value, even though personally for me it's been one attack after another.

This poll has no relation whatsoever to the SuperSizeIssues Forum. Trying to draw parallels to it is just a smoke screen. If there was a private forum for fetishists, I would have no problem with it and I'd honor their privacy with no ill will. (I'd love to see how you decide who qualifies for it, though.) If Stan or anyone else wants to learn more about SSBBW he is more than welcome to create a poll. I'll even vote in it and post to it. 



I repeat: no one... not Ivy, not Tooz, not loveBHMs, not Dan, know what turns me on. Segregation of "fetishists" from "non-fetishists" would only end up making them more misunderstood and vilified than any simple poll could.


----------



## KHayes666 (Jul 3, 2008)

ripley said:


> I repeat: no one... not Ivy, not Tooz, not loveBHMs, not Dan, know what turns me on. Segregation of "fetishists" from "non-fetishists" would only end up making them more misunderstood and vilified than any simple poll could.



Then why don't you tell us what turns you on? You created the poll to find out what "fetishes" turn the rest of us on, how about you tell us what you like?


----------



## LoveBHMS (Jul 3, 2008)

olwen said:


> I wasn't gonna respond to this cause...but I changed my mind. Love, let me start by saying I don't qualify for participation in that thread but I get the need for it. That thread is about health issues and this one is about sexuality.
> 
> Let's do a hypothetical and pretend that you weigh over 500lbs and for whatever reasons don't leave the house much, don't interact with other people, and find this wonderful forum where we can talk to other people in the same situation. Awesome. Then one day you get hit up by some random guy making sexual remarks about stuff that is painful or embarrassing to you - the very stuff this thread just happens to be about.
> 
> ...



I've already said I am in favor of the 450 thread, i've said so repeatedly.

But using your hypthetical situation, it might be helpful for an FA to read it. There are all sorts of possible situations where it might be helpful for an FA to be able to read about SSBBW issues. Maybe a man is dating one for the first time, maybe his wife or girlfriend is gaining, or maybe somebody is caring for a friend or relative who is super sized. Possibly even a health care professional could benefit from reading firsthand accounts of SS issues. Somebody who does not qualify for that thread might have all sorts of positive reasons for wanting to read it, but nevertheless it is private because the particpants believe it's better that way.

The Weight Board can not be private, we already know that. But can you understand how it's difficult for some of us to wish to engage in discussions of our sexuality while being told that we have to be on display because it's helpful for somebody else to watch?


----------



## ripley (Jul 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> But can you understand how it's difficult for some of us to wish to engage in discussions of our sexuality while being told that we have to be on display because it's helpful for somebody else to watch?




You do not HAVE to participate in this thread. 

You do not HAVE to engage in any discussion of your sexuality.

Don't want to? Don't. Over 250 people have wanted to so far. 

Whenever anyone posts to the Weight Board about their sexuality they are "on display"...it's the internet.


----------



## Tooz (Jul 3, 2008)

Oh yes, bring it up! Yes yes, because that's always a good idea. Soaking up the drama like a sponge and using past events as a crutch is all the fashion this season.


The self-righteousness is deafening.


----------



## ripley (Jul 3, 2008)

Tooz said:


> The self-righteousness is deafening.



This made me laugh so hard, honey. You really need to clean your own house before talking about the dust in mine, dear.


----------



## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)

I'd be interested to see how well a private FA board fares; I suspect that the number of FAs wanting to protect their sexual privacy would pale next to the number of SSBBWs wanting to protect their health privacy, but I could very well be pleasantly surprised.

I still say; who's willing NOW to come forward, like wrestling guy, and discuss their attitudes towards the subject of this discussion? The most that gets me going out of the options are some of the embarassing aspects, particularly the tight clothes, but that's just my weight gain fixation talking.


----------



## KHayes666 (Jul 3, 2008)

ripley said:


> This made me laugh so hard, honey. You really need to clean your own house before talking about the dust in mine, dear.



I think she was referring to me.....


----------



## olwen (Jul 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> ....The Weight Board can not be private, we already know that. But can you understand how it's difficult for some of us to wish to engage in discussions of our sexuality while being told that we have to be on display because it's helpful for somebody else to watch?



***TMI ALERT***

I do understand where you're coming from on this. I do. Last weekend, one of my friends asked to come with me and some other friends to an SM club. My initial reaction was "No, I don't want you gawking at me or anybody else or making ugly faces at us." But then I changed my mind cause I realized she wasn't just asking out of idle curiosity. She really wanted to understand what we do. She wanted to understand me better too, and you know what? I'm glad she came because it turned out that her ideas about what we do were all negative and decadent (in a skeevy way) and had absolutely nothing to do with what we actually do there. She said going with us opened her eyes and she was surprised at her level of ignorance going in. The thing about that place too is that the people there are usually fairly happy to talk to novices and people who are curious. She saw a lot of things she wouldn't do, and even some she would and she even went so far as to participate in a scene with us. It was good all around and we all had a good time. 

So I do understand your POV, but I also see how opening up yourself to other people in this regard can be helpful for all involved, not just the person asking all the crazy questions.


----------



## LoveBHMS (Jul 3, 2008)

ripley said:


> You do not HAVE to participate in this thread.
> 
> You do not HAVE to engage in any discussion of your sexuality.
> 
> ...




No, but it's what the Weight Board is here for. Nobody *has to,* but how often does it happen that somebody wants to, such as when Dravenhawk wanted to discuss his squashing fetish or when that guy (can't recall his name) wanted to discuss a fantasy of sex with a 750 pound woman. You're basically saying "Tough shit if those guys want to come to a board on fat sexuality and discuss fat sexuality. If I want to intrude I will do so."


----------



## ripley (Jul 3, 2008)

250 people didn't see it as an intrusion. YOU do. You don't speak for anyone but yourself.


----------



## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)

Er, no, she's OPENING AN AVENUE for such discussion. If you disagree with a term or two, great! Opinions are wonderful things! Soldier on; DISCUSS YOUR SEXUALITY HERE. Don't spend time complaining when you can spend time discussing. Like this, I'm continuing to address the issue of complaining when I could be talking about how fucking hot tight clothes are on a big girl, but yet I just keep on talking about what may or may not be wrong with the thread, the poll, or any of the posters...


----------



## BigBeautifulMe (Jul 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> No, but it's what the Weight Board is here for. Nobody has to, but how often does it happen that somebody wants to, such as when Dravenhawk wanted to discuss his squashing fetish or when that guy (can't recall his name) wanted to discuss a fantasy of sex with a 750 pound woman. You're basically saying "Tough shit if those guys want to come to a board on fat sexuality and discuss fat sexuality. If I want to intrude I will do so."



No, instead the right thing to do is to discuss fat sexuality on a fat sexuality board, and to go to PM to cattily put down other people's bodies and say they should have mutilating, permanent surgery so that they're more aesthetically pleasing to you.


----------



## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)

Ladies and toothpicks, please, do we have to revisit that issue again?

I'd rather we didn't, honestly. Let's continue on with the discussion this thread was intended to spark.


----------



## ripley (Jul 3, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


> Er, no, she's OPENING AN AVENUE for such discussion. If you disagree with a term or two, great! Opinions are wonderful things! Soldier on; DISCUSS YOUR SEXUALITY HERE. Don't spend time complaining when you can spend time discussing. Like this, I'm continuing to address the issue of complaining when I could be talking about how fucking hot tight clothes are on a big girl, but yet I just keep on talking about what may or may not be wrong with the thread, the poll, or any of the posters...



I am so going on cam for you tonight in tight tight tight tiny clothes. Play your cards right and I might eat ice cream while doing it, too.


----------



## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)

That's what being a FA is all about.


----------



## Tina (Jul 3, 2008)

"That issue" will never die. People will not forget.

That's all.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 3, 2008)

Jason is soooo sexy when he gets..........like this.....:wubu:


----------



## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)

Tina said:


> "That issue" will never die. People will not forget.
> 
> That's all.


I've noticed.

I'm all for the RAEG present here, and I understand totally, but potshots in the middle of a thread aren't solving anything, cause somehow the offending parties are back and not intending to just disappear. I'm primarily concerned with keeping a useful (yes, useful!) discussion alive; granted, it's about a thumbs-up away from disappearing into the lava totally, but eh.


----------



## KHayes666 (Jul 3, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


> I've noticed.
> 
> I'm all for the RAEG present here, and I understand totally, but potshots in the middle of a thread aren't solving anything, cause somehow the offending parties are back and not intending to just disappear. I'm primarily concerned with keeping a useful (yes, useful!) discussion alive; granted, it's about a thumbs-up away from disappearing into the lava totally, but eh.



At this point I think it should be closed. This has degenerated into finger pointing, bringing up of past mistakes and other nonsense.

Look at me....trying to keep peace, that would have never happened 2 years ago lol


----------



## LoveBHMS (Jul 3, 2008)

KHayes666 said:


> At this point I think it should be closed. This has degenerated into finger pointing, bringing up of past mistakes and other nonsense.
> 
> Look at me....trying to keep peace, that would have never happened 2 years ago lol



I'm out of this thread. I'm not going to let my presence derail a discussion if others believe it's useful and positive.


----------



## Tina (Jul 3, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


> I've noticed.
> 
> I'm all for the RAEG present here, and I understand totally, but potshots in the middle of a thread aren't solving anything, cause somehow the offending parties are back and not intending to just disappear. I'm primarily concerned with keeping a useful (yes, useful!) discussion alive; granted, it's about a thumbs-up away from disappearing into the lava totally, but eh.



I understand and appreciate your efforts, Wag. It generally doesn't help to try to silence people; stuff just has to run its course. Not saying I want it to turn into a free-for-all, because I don't, but I also understand that strong feelings of resentment, bitterness and anger don't, won't and can't go away easily.

That's all I'll say about it now.


----------



## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)

At this point I'm starting to agree with khayes. As much as I hate to cut Ripley short, I'd be more than happy to start a new thread IF WE CAN KEEP THE BULLSHIT OUT. That almost never happens around here, but surely we can do better than this. Really.


----------



## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)

Seriously.

I'll do it, I'll ask the same questions, and I'm a FA.

It'll be pretty sad if the new one goes off without a hitch; that'll tell me that there's a bigger divide between the FAs and those we're supposed to be admiring than I thought.


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 3, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


> I could be talking about how fucking hot tight clothes are on a big girl



Don't hold back, tiger.

HOW HOT ARE THEY?!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 3, 2008)

Is it time for us to start posting our tits yet or what?


----------



## BigBeautifulMe (Jul 3, 2008)

I think enough boobs have already posted, GEF.


----------



## CleverBomb (Jul 3, 2008)

Booby Pics.







Because YOU! ASKED! FOR! IT!

-Rusty


----------



## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Don't hold back, tiger.
> 
> HOW HOT ARE THEY?!


depends. did you buy them tight or have you grown into them? there's a difference


----------



## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)

CleverBomb said:


> Booby Pics.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


*faps furiously*
also:


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 3, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


> depends. did you buy them tight or have you grown into them? there's a difference



Of course I didn't buy them tight. But what can I do? Fat happens. :happy:


----------



## Sandie S-R (Jul 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Good points Phil.
> 
> Let me ask you something. When the 450+ forum was being created, many FAs said they'd like to be able to read it. Not for fappage or ridicule or invasion of privacy, but to better understand the daily challenges faced by SSBBW. Many of the women said they did not wish to be studied or used for demonstrations. They wanted to discuss their personal issues with others who faced the same challenges and problems *without an audience.*
> 
> ...





Here's the way that I see it. Conrad has been involved in fat acceptance for 30+ years. He's funded Dims from day one, all on his own. This is his place. He decides what goes here. He felt we SS ladies needed a place to talk privately, because having had a SS wife for many years (and many SS friends) he gets that we need the ability to talk privately. 

You seem to think that this forum (and Conrad) owes you something. Your own little place to do what you feel you need to do. But it doesn't. And if you are not finding what you need here, then please feel free to leave and start your own place (with your own money) where you can talk privately about whatever the crap you want.


----------



## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Fat happens. :happy:


rep reppity rep


----------



## Sandie S-R (Jul 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> I've already said I am in favor of the 450 thread, i've said so repeatedly.



I'm thrilled we have your support. 



LoveBHMS said:


> But using your hypthetical situation, it might be helpful for an FA to read it. There are all sorts of possible situations where it might be helpful for an FA to be able to read about SSBBW issues. Maybe a man is dating one for the first time, maybe his wife or girlfriend is gaining, or maybe somebody is caring for a friend or relative who is super sized. Possibly even a health care professional could benefit from reading firsthand accounts of SS issues. Somebody who does not qualify for that thread might have all sorts of positive reasons for wanting to read it, but nevertheless it is private because the particpants believe it's better that way.



However, most of the stuff that we discuss in the SS forum, are about things the men are not going to want or need to read. How many guys are gonna want to read about clotty periods, and infections, etc.?

And, as far as whether the FA men or health professionals (or whoever) want to listen in on the SS forum for information purposes or not, quite frankly is moot. Because the bottom line is, the SS ladies wouldn't feel comfortable enough to talk about the private things they are able to talk about now in the closed forum if FAs were allowed to read the forum. So it would actually defeat the purpose, and the men would learn nothing because there would be no discussions.



LoveBHMS said:


> The Weight Board can not be private, we already know that. But can you understand how it's difficult for some of us to wish to engage in discussions of our sexuality while being told that we have to be on display because it's helpful for somebody else to watch?



This goes right back to what I said before. You obviously seem unhappy with what Dimensions has to offer you. So feel free to go find it or create it yourself elsewhere.


----------



## Frankie (Jul 3, 2008)

*waves flabby cock at Rip*


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 3, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


> rep reppity rep



Thanks. I think I'll celebrate with a bowl of Cocoa Pebbles. :happy:


----------



## ripley (Jul 3, 2008)

Frankie said:


> *waves flabby cock at Rip*



I love you so. :wubu::wubu::wubu:


----------



## Frankie (Jul 3, 2008)

Don't try to alter my flaccidness with your sweet nothings. 



ripley said:


> I love you so. :wubu::wubu::wubu:


----------



## ripley (Jul 3, 2008)

I love it when you're disapproving, too. :wubu:


----------



## mossystate (Jul 3, 2008)

ripley...I think we have found a third for our Super Duper Sticky Sexapades...I have plenty of organic produce



yes, that is my contribution to this thread


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 3, 2008)

mossystate said:


> ripley...I think we have found a third for our Super Duper Sticky Sexapades...I have plenty of organic produce
> 
> 
> 
> yes, that is my contribution to this thread



blah blah blah....let's just get back to the bouncing tits....... Monique.... :batting:


----------



## ripley (Jul 3, 2008)

mossystate said:


> ripley...I think we have found a third for our Super Duper Sticky Sexapades...I have plenty of organic produce
> 
> 
> 
> yes, that is my contribution to this thread



Dibs on the leeks. :blush:


----------



## Frankie (Jul 3, 2008)

Can I join? I don't get nearly enough produce in my . . . diet.



mossystate said:


> ripley...I think we have found a third for our Super Duper Sticky Sexapades...I have plenty of organic produce
> 
> 
> 
> yes, that is my contribution to this thread


----------



## ripley (Jul 3, 2008)

Frankie said:


> Can I join? I don't get nearly enough produce in my . . . diet.



I think she meant you as our third! 

P.S. You should see what Monique can do with a parsnip on cam...oh my.


----------



## mossystate (Jul 3, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> blah blah blah....let's just get back to the bouncing tits....... Monique.... :batting:



I would have to jump pretty high to get mine to actually....bounce...but, I can get all floppy for you:wubu:



ripley said:


> Dibs on the leeks. :blush:



you just like saying that word



Frankie said:


> Can I join? I don't get nearly enough produce in my . . . diet.



can you join?...can you join???...you ARE the third....you had me at....flaccid:blush:...ffs...great porn name for you...Flaccido Domingo


----------



## Frankie (Jul 3, 2008)

How about fennel bulbs? Maybe freshen things up while diddling yourself. Like Sen-Sen for the hoo-hoo.



ripley said:


> I think she meant you as our third!
> 
> P.S. You should see what Monique can do with a parsnip on cam...oh my.


----------



## Frankie (Jul 3, 2008)

Rip, your avatar title is pure brilliance.


----------



## ripley (Jul 3, 2008)

I love how you think. We need to put our fennel dildos on QVC. We'd be rich. Rich, I tell ya!


----------



## Frankie (Jul 3, 2008)

mossystate said:


> can you join?...can you join???...you ARE the third....you had me at....flaccid:blush:...ffs...great porn name for you...Flaccido Domingo




This is quite an honor! I hope I can live up to your penile non-standards.


----------



## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)

so this is what thread Purgatory feels like...

nice digs.


----------



## Frankie (Jul 3, 2008)

I was just telling Rip how pleased I am that we could get this thread back on track.

BTW, I'm waiting to rep you for your earlier posts. 



Wagimawr said:


> so this is what thread Purgatory feels like...
> 
> nice digs.


----------



## ripley (Jul 3, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


> so this is what thread Purgatory feels like...
> 
> nice digs.



That seems to be the way of things at Dims...a thread barely starts, a war erupts, then people act silly to diffuse all the badness. <shrug>


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 3, 2008)

mossystate said:


> I would have to jump pretty high to get mine to actually....bounce...but, I can get all floppy for you:wubu:




Oh wow....you got me all hot and tingly now........ errrrrrrrrrrrr.... ooooppppsss...it was actually the words "cock flab" that got me this way.....


My bad.....:blush:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 3, 2008)

ripley said:


> That seems to be the way of things at Dims...a thread barely starts, a war erupts, then people act silly to diffuse all the badness. <shrug>



Personally I think it was cock flab that ended all coherent conversation........


----------



## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)




----------



## mossystate (Jul 3, 2008)

Purgatory?

Let's do the Limbo

How low can you go.


----------



## ripley (Jul 3, 2008)

I think we've already seen how low some can go, lol.


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 3, 2008)

ripley said:


> That seems to be the way of things at Dims...a thread barely starts, a war erupts, then people act silly to diffuse all the badness. <shrug>



Yeah, but you left out the part where people come around claiming to want to talk about hot stuff, and then actually never get around to it, ripley


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 3, 2008)

Cock flab.....that is all......


----------



## Wagimawr (Jul 3, 2008)

ripley said:


> I think we've already seen how low some can go, lol.



lol foot fetish?


----------



## ripley (Jul 3, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Yeah, but you left out the part where people come around claiming to want to talk about hot stuff, and then actually never get around to it, ripley



He's a tease, Fasc. He has frustrated me beyond belief, the little minx.


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 3, 2008)

ripley said:


> He's a tease, Fasc. He has frustrated me beyond belief, the little minx.



lol... So I see. More's the pity  We'll have to do without him, I guess.

Bring on the flab, Frankie!


----------



## Frankie (Jul 3, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Cock flab.....that is all......



Well, my work here is done.

I'm hitting the hay. Goodnight, y'all.


----------



## Risible (Jul 4, 2008)

Frankie said:


> I was just telling Rip how pleased I am that we could get this thread back on track.
> 
> BTW, I'm waiting to rep you for your earlier posts.



Is this on track enough for you? 




​ 


ripley said:


> That seems to be the way of things at Dims...a thread barely starts, a war erupts, then people act silly to diffuse all the badness. <shrug>



With apologies to Ripley :blush:


----------



## ripley (Jul 4, 2008)

No need, I love silliness.


----------



## Wagimawr (Jul 4, 2008)




----------



## olwen (Jul 4, 2008)

Wagimawr said:


>



I so knew you were gonna do that! Awesome.


----------



## Wagimawr (Jul 4, 2008)




----------



## exile in thighville (Jul 4, 2008)

Tina said:


> "That issue" will never die. People will not forget.
> 
> That's all.



You think that's bad, wait til people hear what _I _say about them in pms.


----------



## KHayes666 (Jul 4, 2008)

exile in thighville said:


> You think that's bad, wait til people hear what _I _say about them in pms.



Oh do tell madamoiselle!


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 4, 2008)

exile in thighville said:


> You think that's bad, wait til people hear what _I _say about them in pms.



I wanna know, too 

I got the day off and a giant bag of gummy bears, so I got all day to read what you got to say. I won't even have to get up to go to the kitchen for nourishment or anything for hours.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 4, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> I wanna know, too
> 
> I got the day off and a giant bag of gummy bears, so I got all day to read what you got to say. I won't even have to get up to go to the kitchen for nourishment or anything for hours.



I tried this for a few hours earlier today......but I used potato chips. Good thing I gave you a cucumber to level your blood sugars out


----------



## exile in thighville (Jul 4, 2008)

uh...shouldn't you guys have pm'd me? isn't that the point? there's nothing to unceremoniously reveal by accident otherwise! and_ then _what will we flog to death?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 4, 2008)

Not sure who you want to PM about but personally, I'm an open book. I usually blab out my own business before anyone else can  

I tend to use YIM to get the low down on others anyway- more private that way 

Do you like cucumber Dan? :batting:


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 4, 2008)

Yes, I passed out for hours from gummy bear poisoning, revived, got myself a wine cooler and sat back down on my bed with my laptop--all before Dan got back to us with the smack-talk.

That's OK, because smack-talking through PM is for squares, from what I hear. So I've decided to swear off.

But we could talk about it in the open... start a false rumors thread :happy:

You first, Green.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 5, 2008)

I don't really like cucumbers as much as I pretend....it's really a metaphor...


Please, please don't be shocked........


----------



## exile in thighville (Jul 5, 2008)

cucumbers are for fags






JOKE


----------



## Fascinita (Jul 5, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I don't really like cucumbers as much as I pretend....it's really a metaphor...
> 
> 
> Please, please don't be shocked........



Wait... This is a false rumor? :blink:

So you _do_ like cucumbers? And it's not a....

Oh, never mind. 

Here's a rumor:

butch invented Hubba Bubba gum. Did you know that?

And yes, that means that the thing about the secret ingredient that makes it soft.... spider eggs? That was all butch.


----------



## KHayes666 (Jul 5, 2008)

exile in thighville said:


> cucumbers are for fags
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I like cucumbers.....doesn't mean I wanna take a walk up your strata chocolata


----------



## butch (Jul 5, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> Wait... This is a false rumor? :blink:
> 
> So you _do_ like cucumbers? And it's not a....
> 
> ...



You swore to me you'd never tell! Now what am I going to do with that warehouse full of spider eggs, since the secret is out and I won't be able to use them in my Hubba Bubba gum?


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 6, 2008)

KHayes666 said:


> I like cucumbers.....




:wubu::wubu::wubu::wubu:


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## exile in thighville (Jul 6, 2008)

KHayes666 said:


> I like cucumbers.....doesn't mean I wanna take a walk up your strata chocolata



I was talking about cigars.


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## KHayes666 (Jul 7, 2008)

exile in thighville said:


> I was talking about cigars.



close but no?


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## Koldun (Jul 7, 2008)

I like heavy women in small clothes.


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## jjgourmet2002 (Jul 8, 2008)

I love to cook, I love fat women. The two go hand in hand for me. I do not consider myself a "feeder". I read here recently someone talking about loving preparing food and their partner willingly eating. That is where the dynamic lies for me. It is a nurturing motivation, not controlling or manipulative in any way.

I would never force my will or desires on an unwilling partner, nor would I feel good about putting anyones health at risk. Depending on body types there are many people who can carry lots of sweet lovely soft fat and maintain a good quality of life. I have an Aunt lives on the farm always been a huge pear, she is now in her 80's still fat and was helping me load picnic tables.

As far at the turn on etc. to each his own. Breaking a chair, busting a seam can be fun with the right people. Exploring fantasies in a safe way can be deeply erotic. 

As far as the hygiene things goes, it offends me when people get all weird about that. The last year of my dad's life I did things for him no man should be called upon to do. Because I loved him, it was an honor. I was so glad to be there. While I don't that erotic there is something very noble and nurturing about caring for someone you deeply love. And if in a moment that tenderness sparks something.. who are any of us to judge. You have to look beyond the surface to the motivation to reach a deeper understanding. Man up people, you may need help someday!!

jj


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## Tooz (Jul 8, 2008)

I was not embarrassed at all when I broke a chair in a full restaurant. Just thought of that.


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## KHayes666 (Jul 8, 2008)

Tooz said:


> I was not embarrassed at all when I broke a chair in a full restaurant. Just thought of that.



That flash you saw when you hit the ground....that was me with my cam in the booth 4 rows away lol


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 8, 2008)

The old fold up lawn chair that has been on my porch for years finally broke when I took my girls to see fireworks...it was loud and did this in front of a very large crowd of people. I was proud of myself for not getting freaked out...and actually even being "cool" about it all....


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## Ernest Nagel (Jul 8, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> The old fold up lawn chair that has been on my porch for years finally broke when I took my girls to see fireworks...it was loud and did this in front of a very large crowd of people. I was proud of myself for not getting freaked out...and actually even being "cool" about it all....



Future rep pledged for coolness under fireworks and courage above and beyond the call of booty.  Sa-lute!


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 8, 2008)

Thankee Sir 

*curtsies her salute*


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## tjw1971 (Jul 9, 2008)

Just wanted to thank you for sharing all of that.

I'd have to say myself, it's always been a little bit different. I really get nothing positive out of watching a bigger woman sweating or struggling with her weight to do things like climb stairs or walk a long distance. In fact, I have to say I always find that one of the big "negatives" that counters my overall interest in BBWs/SSBBWs.

I think I have this odd thing going on where I like big women, but ALSO like muscular women. The two strike a lot of people as polar opposite interests, yet there's a lot inter-twined there. (EG. Muscle is denser than fat, so a muscular woman tends to weigh more at a given size than a woman who isn't muscular.) So I guess my ideal tends to be a big, heavy but ALSO rather "fit" or muscular woman.

I have known a couple women who were really big eaters, and I found that arousing - seeing how much food they could put away in a sitting. But even in those cases, it'd stop being so "enjoyable" to see if they reached a point where it was obviously causing them mobility problems. (That sort of thing always worked best, I thought, for women with high metabolisms, who really could eat like crazy but not ever get THAT big. The women I knew who could eat the most were 5'1" and 175lbs. and 5'7" and 225lbs. Decent-sized bellies on both of them, but not women you'd ever call "huge" either....)




wrestlingguy said:


> My only true experience with this involved a girl that I lived with for roughly 2 1/2 years.
> 
> Due to depression medication, she nearly doubled her weight (from about 145 when I met her to around 278 when she "moved out").
> 
> ...


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## ffju (Jul 20, 2008)

This one's tough. The thing is, I have a fetish. I am only able to get aroused (the very definition of a fetish), by the idea of being fed up to an impossible weight. It's been around for decades, ever since I can remember. I don't want to do it in real life, and in fact, the one or two times I've tried to "gain a little" in real life nothing's happened. It's all in the head. 

I'm a normal weight, otherwise boring woman, but I've got this fetish, this fantasy thing. In my fantasy, though there are lots of options and variations, the gist is that I am fed to a massive size by a male sweetie/husband/boyfriend. 

This board has been a mental lifesaver! Just knowing there are other people in the world with this fetish helps, it really does. 

And yes, for me, the fantasy, the idea, of being so large I couldn't...use the bathroom, walk across a room, get out of a chair, etc., is so very arousing. 

To distinguish it, I don't feel aroused at the sight of someone in real life who needs assistance. I mean, that's real life, that person is a human being toward whom I feel compassion and love. I wouldn't find that exciting. For me, it's the fantasy, that if it happened to *me* in my fantasy, it would be arrousing. 

I hope that those here understand the distinction.

thanks to everyone here, you help me feel so very not alone.


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## Friday (Jul 23, 2008)

The ignore function is a truly handy invention. I never have to listen to the...persons...who don't belong here in the first place.

Maybe if everyone ignored instead of responding to them, they'd get bored and go find someone else to fixate their self hate on.


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## JoyJoy (Jul 23, 2008)

ffju said:


> This one's tough. The thing is, I have a fetish. I am only able to get aroused (the very definition of a fetish), by the idea of being fed up to an impossible weight. It's been around for decades, ever since I can remember. I don't want to do it in real life, and in fact, the one or two times I've tried to "gain a little" in real life nothing's happened. It's all in the head.
> 
> I'm a normal weight, otherwise boring woman, but I've got this fetish, this fantasy thing. In my fantasy, though there are lots of options and variations, the gist is that I am fed to a massive size by a male sweetie/husband/boyfriend.
> 
> ...





tjw1971 said:


> Just wanted to thank you for sharing all of that.
> 
> I'd have to say myself, it's always been a little bit different. I really get nothing positive out of watching a bigger woman sweating or struggling with her weight to do things like climb stairs or walk a long distance. In fact, I have to say I always find that one of the big "negatives" that counters my overall interest in BBWs/SSBBWs.
> 
> ...



These two posts are a big part of why this thread was created. See what happens when the naysayers keep quiet for a bit? Thanks for sharing, guys.


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## ChubbyFA (Jul 24, 2008)

Post Removed By User


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## goodthings (Mar 1, 2009)

KHayes666 said:


> Yeah....because some of which are terrified of being ramrodded by other people if they admit to having "disgusting or painful" fantasizes and attractions.
> 
> Imagine if I had considerable pull and reputation to post a poll along the lines of "What complete fat ass are you attracted to?" in a non-bbw forum or group, who would respond to that with the implifications that you're different than everyone else and or embarrassed to be attracted to that?



It is a private poll, so this is a moot concern


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## goodthings (Mar 1, 2009)

Miklosanin said:


> A*side from the first option, the other listings are actually a major, major turnOFF for me. When I dated (in the lame, high school sense) a SSBBW years ago, the hygiene issues and physical conditioning really turned me off to her*. I worried about her health and well-being too much to ever possibly enjoy that. I wanted her to be happy with her weight, *but her health and sometimes odor freaked me out so bad I was at once disgusted and worried*. She wanted to lose weight desperately, so I encouraged it, which was very counter-intuitive for my sexual wiring, but what was I to do? The whole situation was a mess, she never wanted to have sex because she was ashamed of herself, and she didn't believe when I told her I thought she was very attractive and that she didn't need to be thin, just healthy. *Very sad, the whole thing. It makes me fear ever getting into a relationship with another SSBBW*.
> 
> Things like 'not fitting' basically went in the clothes department, which was hot but I really see no issue with that  And there was the time she broke that IKEA chair just after we assmbled it, but really it would have probably broken if I'd sat on it too  Of course the time we went skiing and she couldn't fit into any of the boots was just depressing, she was so ashamed of herself and I was sad she wasn't able to go skiing, which we'd talked about for a year. She's gained so much weight since we broke up, I worry so much for her well-being.
> 
> *Anyway, I hope I said nothing insensitive here*.



Uh.....hmmm....insensitive? Yup!


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## KHayes666 (Mar 1, 2009)

goodthings said:


> It is a private poll, so this is a moot concern



considering this thread died over 7 months ago.....its all moot anyway.


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## Tooz (Mar 1, 2009)

Why in the motherfucking HELL was this thread bumped?


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## BothGunsBlazing (Mar 1, 2009)

BGB: oh, goodthings, you're so silly.

goodthings: *7 months later she wakes up in a cold sweat* .. I'M NOT SILLY.


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## goodthings (Mar 1, 2009)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> BGB: oh, goodthings, you're so silly.
> 
> goodthings: *7 months later she wakes up in a cold sweat* .. I'M NOT SILLY.



eh? I did not know of this thread until yesterday. In another thread canklegate was mentioned, being curious, I searched it out and found this thread. I read it and responded to it and do not feel silly about it at all. I am still wanting to read canklegate but have not been able to find the specific thread. Anyone willing to point me in the direction of it?

Thanks


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## Oirish (Mar 1, 2009)

The ONLY thing I find arousing on that list at all are the "annoying" things. And I'm not too terribly aroused by it to be honest. I just think it is sometimes cute when a BBW gets her butt stuck in a chair or other similar situations. To be honest I think that this thread exemplifies why some BBWs may be really creeped out by FAs. Some of the posts on this thread mentioned that shame was a turn on. I really don't understand this...but to each their own. Others said they enjoyed when a BBW cried because they couldn't fit into their clothes anymore. I am definitely an FA and I do find weight gain to be very arousing but not when it leads someone to tears or to real discomfort. Some of the subject matter of this poll really makes me uncomfortable but I find how others are aroused by such things to be an interesting topic from a sociological perspective.


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## KHayes666 (Mar 1, 2009)

For the sake of peace, can someone close this thread before it becomes a problem?


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## AnnMarie (Mar 1, 2009)

We don't pre-close threads because they "may" be an issue. This thread lived and died in a natural course of action, and I'm sure if people want it to do so again, they can leave it be.


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## sugarmoore (Mar 20, 2009)

i had a bf who would giggle and think it was the cutest thing ever if i couldnt fit into my pants or a panties! but if he saw that i was genuinely upset, he would console me, and thats the difference between monster and fetish i think. one time i found my favorite pair of panties that i thought i had lost several months before and tried to put them on...well they wouldnt go past my thighs and i got all fustrated and ploped on the bed with a heavy sigh and he giggled and poked my chubb and told me how cute and sexy i was and i saw what he saw for just a moment and it wasnt cruel at all, i then had some of the best oral of my life! lol


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## Blackjack (Mar 20, 2009)

sugarmoore said:


> i had a bf who would giggle and think it was the cutest thing ever if i couldnt fit into my pants or a panties! but if he saw that i was genuinely upset, he would console me, and thats the difference between monster and fetish i think.



I don't think that's the difference between "monster" and "fetish"... I think it's the difference between someone who cares about their boner more than their partner and vice versa.


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## sugarmoore (Mar 20, 2009)

Blackjack said:


> I don't think that's the difference between "monster" and "fetish"... I think it's the difference between someone who cares about their boner more than their partner and vice versa.



well put, thats what i was tryn to say, thx blackjack


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## Jon Blaze (Mar 20, 2009)

Nope. Nothing that is really size-specific unless it's something that's allowed me to connect with something of a different size (Like point of view pictures/persepctives). But that's not negative.


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## CCC (Mar 21, 2009)

The "embarrassing" aspects would be arousing to me as long as the woman herself did not actually feel uncomfortable or embarrassed. If we are to believe some of the paysite models and anecdotal posts out there, many women find it exciting or amusing to break a chair or discover they can no longer fit into something. But the second she admitted or appeared to be uncomfortable, the magic would be gone. I can't take pleasure in others' pain.


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