# Lortabs



## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 18, 2008)

Or the generic equivalent Hydroco/APA 7.5. 

I have been taking Lortabs again for some problems I am having with my left shoulder. I have taken them before and they have never bothered me..I lived on them for about 6 years and did not have any problems stopping them nor did they bother me like they are now. 


This time on them it is different. I am having weird dreams and profuse sweating.They do not keep me asleep for very long but do stop the pain from being so intense. I have never experienced anything like this before. I guess I should mention I live on Darvocettes the 750 mg pills,I take 3 to 6 of them a day or did before starting the Lortabs. 

Anyone else have this problem with them? Could I be allergic to them after all this time? Just strange for this to come out of right field.


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## tonynyc (Apr 18, 2008)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> Or the generic equivalent Hydroco/APA 7.5.
> 
> I have been taking Lortabs again for some problems I am having with my left shoulder. I have taken them before and they have never bothered me..I lived on them for about 6 years and did not have any problems stopping them nor did they bother me like they are now.
> 
> ...




Sorry to hear about your shoulder problem? I have not taken Lortabs or the other drugs mentioned- Check up with your Physicians/Pharmacist regarding the adverse reactions. Are they reccommending any other alternative pain methods to try.


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## moore2me (Apr 18, 2008)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> Or the generic equivalent Hydroco/APA 7.5.
> 
> I have been taking Lortabs again for some problems I am having with my left shoulder. I have taken them before and they have never bothered me..I lived on them for about 6 years and did not have any problems stopping them nor did they bother me like they are now.
> 
> ...



Lortabs or the generic equivalent (or any similar medication) with codeine as main ingredient and acetimenophen are a secondary ingredient. Below is some iinformation I copied on the pros and cons of taking such medication (especially longterm).

Specific information on Lortabs or Hydrocodone
From http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/lortab75_wcp.htm

*Warnings:*
Respiratory Depression: At high doses or in sensitive patients, hydrocodone may produce dose-related respiratory depression by acting directly on the brain stem respiratory center. Hydrocodone also affects the center that controls respiratory rhythm, and may produce irregular and periodic breathing. (Perhaps this could disturb your sleep?)

*Side Effects:*
The most frequently reported adverse reactions are light-headedness, dizziness, sedation, nausea and vomiting.

*Other adverse reactions include:
Central Nervous System:* Drowsiness, mental clouding, lethargy, impairment of mental and physical performance, anxiety, fear, dysphoria, psychic dependence, mood changes. (Perhaps your night sweats connected here?)

*Respiratory Depression*: Hydrocodone bitartrate (the opioid in Lortabs) may produce dose-related respiratory depression by acting directly on the brain stem respiratory centers. *The brain stem controls consciousness and determines whether one is awake or sleepy. (Perhaps this drug is adversely affecting your ability for normal sleep?)*

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Now here's some general information on opioids (Lortabs & Hydrocodone):


Opioids have negative side effects as well. However, it is interesting that many pain specialists now believe that opioids, when used as prescribed, are often safer than the non-opioids. Side effects of the opioids include respiratory depression, nausea and vomiting, constipation, sedation, and mental clouding. Many of these side effects can be minimized or eliminated with proper medical management. 

Concerns Regarding Addiction  
The major objection to use of opioid pain relievers for chronic pain is the fear that they may lead to addiction. As a result of such fears, many doctors are reluctant to prescribe opioids, and many chronic pain patients are reluctant to take them. It is important to understand what addiction is and what it isnt. Three concepts are now distinguished: physical dependence, tolerance, and addiction. 

*Moore's comment: IMHO the reason many doctors are reluctant to prescribe continued doses of opioids such as Lortabs is that they are also afraid of losing their prescription licensing by the Narcotics Bureaus.*

Physical dependence is an automatic consequence of taking opioids over time. Physical dependence is apparent when one abruptly stops taking the drug or reduces the amount taken. This leads to withdrawal reactions. Physical dependence is not the same as addiction and is not considered to be a problem by most pain specialists.

*Tolerance refers to the fact that the drug loses its pain relieving effectiveness when used over time. That is, tolerance occurs when you need to take more of the drug in order to obtain the same degree of pain relief. Tolerance is also not considered to be a problem by most pain specialists. That is, many persons with chronic pain who are taking opioids are able to maintain their dosage level without continuing escalating the amount taken. *

Addiction, unlike physical dependence and tolerance, is more of a psychological concept. It refers to psychological dependence and craving. It refers to people who take more of the drug than they are supposed to or who seem to have little control over the amount they take. People who are addicted take opioids more for their psychological effects than for pain relief. That is, they compulsively use opioids to reduce emotional suffering.

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*Moores comments: There are several other alternative methods available now for pain control other than Lortabs. You might want to research some pain management websites and see if anything appeals to you. I have some friends who have had good luck with Lidocane pain patches, nerve blocks, massage, exercise therapy, or TENS units. Some of us also use a combination of several techniques. *


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## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 19, 2008)

Thank you both for your replies.

Tony thank you again. I have a torn rotator cuff in my left shoulder. If they don't give me Lortabs they give me Darvocettes which are not strong enough to calm the pain. I have tried the generic morphine and oxycotin and neither were strong enough for me..I will try something else again I guess..

Moore I do not understand why Drs. that know their patient are in chronic pain will not prescribe anything stronger then Darvocette. It is not like someone with that much pain will get addicted. Makes no sense to me.

As for the nerve block I can't do it because I will loose all sensations to my fingers. I have tried to have it done and the Drs will not do it. They want me to be able to feel heat and cold in my fingers. The tens unit wont help either because it is a torn rotator cuff and this is my second one to have repaired. I am not to sure I can take the Lidocaine,if it has any aspirin in it I can't. I took a lot of aspirin when I was a child for the arthritis in my knees and it messed my stomach up.

I guess I will keep trying pain pills until I can find one that will work as it should on me. I figured I built up a tolerance to the Lortabs from taking them for so long. Might be why I can't sleep much while taking them and the weird dreams. I know there is something out there that can help,just got to find it..

Again thank you both.


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## saucywench (Apr 19, 2008)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> I do not understand why Drs. that know their patient are in chronic pain will not prescribe anything stronger then [sic] Darvocette.


Here's a very good example of why.


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## moore2me (Apr 19, 2008)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> Thank you both for your replies.
> 
> Tony thank you again. I have a torn rotator cuff in my left shoulder. If they don't give me Lortabs they give me Darvocettes which are not strong enough to calm the pain. I have tried the generic morphine and oxycotin and neither were strong enough for me..I will try something else again I guess..
> 
> ...



From http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/lidoderm.htm

*Lidocaine patches* (also called *Lidoderm*) are small (10 cm x 14 cm) patches applied to intact skin over the area that is painful. The patches were originally created for herpes type pain (shingles), but patients have been using them for other pain management purposes. 

The patches work by controlling pain in two ways. Lidocaine is a local anesthetic that calms neurons in the skin and minimizes their firing and pain conduction. We have all experienced its effect in the dentist chair when they swap our gums with it before giving us a shot.

The lidocaine patches also work by having a systemic effect in that the medication is absorbed thru your intact skin, enters the blood stream, and is metabolized into your body, resulting in an anesthetic effect. The amount of absorption depends on the number of patches used (up to 3 allowed) , the area of skin applied to (some skin better at absorbing than other skin), and the length of time worn. The patches are normally worn for 12 hours.

*In answer to your question about aspirin, the answer is no  there is no aspirin in this patch. Lidocaine is a relative of acetaminophen (tylenol) but not exactly alike. However, the beauty of the patch is that this medication does not pass thru you gastric system  no stomach or intestines involved. The liver is used to metabolize the drug in the blood stream however. *

Some warnings on the Lidocaine patches:
*Antiarrhythmic Drugs:* LIDODERM should be used with caution in patients receiving Class I antiarrhythmic drugs (such as tocainide and mexiletine) since the toxic effects are additive and potentially synergistic. 

*Local Anesthetics:* When LIDODERM is used concomitantly with other products containing local anesthetic agents, the amount absorbed from all formulations must be considered. So, you can use these patches along with your other pain medication. Between the two types of drugs, you may get more effective pain relief and may be able to reduce the use (and side effects) of the Lorcets.

*Ingestion hazard:* Lidoderm patches (even used ones) can be dangerous if accidentally eaten by children or pets. Proper disposal of used patches is essential to protect pets and kids from contact.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 19, 2008)

saucywench said:


> Here's a very good example of why.



That article was 6 years ago. A lot has changed since then.

I think Drs that are in pain management have a better understand of patients with chronic pain. I know that my friend with fibro takes stronger drugs now then she did 2 years ago to help alleviate the pain and find some relief. It is not like a patient that hurts 24/7 is going to sell their drugs to get money,they are going to use the pills for their pain. They want to be able to have some quality of life and if it means taking pills for it they will..


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## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 19, 2008)

moore2me said:


> From http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic/lidoderm.htm
> 
> *Lidocaine patches* (also called *Lidoderm*) are small (10 cm x 14 cm) patches applied to intact skin over the area that is painful. The patches were originally created for herpes type pain (shingles), but patients have been using them for other pain management purposes.
> 
> ...



I am wondering if these will work for me since my pain is not localized but more of an all over body pain. I have a long history of surgeries that are centered on my shoulders,elbows and wrists and now from these surgeries I have bone spurs growing (such fun) that are causing most of my pain.


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## AnnMarie (Apr 19, 2008)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> Moore I do not understand why Drs. that know their patient are in chronic pain will not prescribe anything stronger then Darvocette. It is not like someone with that much pain will get addicted. Makes no sense to me.





BubbleButtBabe said:


> That article was 6 years ago. A lot has changed since then.
> 
> I think Drs that are in pain management have a better understand of patients with chronic pain. I know that my friend with fibro takes stronger drugs now then she did 2 years ago to help alleviate the pain and find some relief. It is not like a patient that hurts 24/7 is going to sell their drugs to get money,they are going to use the pills for their pain. They want to be able to have some quality of life and if it means taking pills for it they will..



But not selling yours pills doesn't mean the person isn't addicted to pain meds. Chronic pain is exactly how many prescription drug addicts are born. Imagine becoming so addicted to the medication that alleviates your pain that you have to quit taking it because IT'S going to kill you and your life becomes non-functional as a result of pill addiction, but the chronic pain hasn't gone anywhere and now you can't take those meds at all. 

Someone I love very much is in that situation, the addiction is real, and the reality of knowing that those highly addictive meds are no longer an option makes life very, very difficult. It's also bone spurs, btw, but this time covering an entire hip bone/joint.

I applaud doctors who are reluctant to hand out opioids like candy. They're a good short term solution for a painful injury or situation, but there are a host of medications that are far less addictive for long-term chronic pain. Pain clinics can be wonderful places, hopefully most have access to them... I wish no one had to live with debilitating pain.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 20, 2008)

AnnMarie said:


> But not selling yours pills doesn't mean the person isn't addicted to pain meds. Chronic pain is exactly how many prescription drug addicts are born. Imagine becoming so addicted to the medication that alleviates your pain that you have to quit taking it because IT'S going to kill you and your life becomes non-functional as a result of pill addiction, but the chronic pain hasn't gone anywhere and now you can't take those meds at all.
> 
> Someone I love very much is in that situation, the addiction is real, and the reality of knowing that those highly addictive meds are no longer an option makes life very, very difficult. It's also bone spurs, btw, but this time covering an entire hip bone/joint.
> 
> I applaud doctors who are reluctant to hand out opioids like candy. They're a good short term solution for a painful injury or situation, but there are a host of medications that are far less addictive for long-term chronic pain. Pain clinics can be wonderful places, hopefully most have access to them... I wish no one had to live with debilitating pain.



I agree that prescription drugs are what starts a lot of people down the path to addiction. Not every one gets addicted and not every one gets relief from the opiates,just like every thing else in life,some it helps and some it hurts. That is why pain management is a trial and error medical profession. I know people that swear by the tens units for their back pain and others can't use them because they get no relief.

I am sorry to hear about that person in your life that has to deal with the addiction. I would hope and pray there is another form of pain management they can use to help if not stop the pain all together, then alleviate it enough to go about their daily life.

What kills me about the Drs not prescribing some sort of pain management more is when there is solid proof something needs to be done and they do nothing. I suffered for years because all I ever heard and believed was,_"If I give you something for pain now,you will be out on the streets when you run out looking for more."_ I have ran out a lot and didn't get a new script right away. I was never on the street looking for more drugs.I lived with the pain until it would get to the point I couldn't enjoy my morning cup of coffee without being in so much pain I wanted to die.

I have been to that point in my life a few times from the pain and no one would listen nor did they want to believe me. You know it was all in my head or I was just one of *those* people that wanted to be on drugs. Sorry but my idea of fun is not being foggy,forgetful and sleepy most days.

Just like the torn rotator cuff in my left shoulder. It has taken me 8 years and re injuring it for something to finally be getting done for it. I have told Drs over and over something was not right with it, just to be told I am getting old and it is probably just arthritis. I have hurt so badly and for so long that I have prayed for God to kill me because I couldn't take the pain any more. I have become anti social because when you are in pain that much and others aren't they just do not get it and say something stupid like,"Well you just need to go to therapy and get them to work your shoulder.", which is the worse thing you can do for a torn rotator cuff. 

My personality has changed a lot from all the pain and I tolerate very little in my life now,hate to say this, I take it out on the ones I love the most. Told all of this to the 2 Ortho Drs I went to see and all they wanted to do was shoot it was cortisone. The shots helped for a very short time but didn't stop the pain as it should have. Neither Dr. wanted to do a MRI to see if there really was something to all the pain. Finally the PA I see as my attending realized I was not just complaining to be complaining, something was wrong. She sent me to a different Ortho that ordered the MRI and found the tear. He said it had been there a while and was the reason I was in so much pain with my left shoulder. He also examined my right shoulder but told me it was better to just leave it alone and use pain management for it because he was afraid he would screw it up worse by trying to fix it.

The big bone spur I have on the top of my right wrist has been growing for years. It is now probably the size of a golf ball as was the one I had taken off of my left ankle. My hand Dr told me it was better to leave it alone then to try to operate on it because of the way the nerves are attached to my fingers and wrists. The spur pushes on the Median nerve that runs down the top of my right arm and he said by removing the spur it would damage the nerve. When I asked him what I could do about the pain,he told me to get use to living with it. Nothing more then that. He is also the Dr. that gave me 2 shots in my left trigger thumb because he didn't want to operate on it and said that should fix it. It didn't,within a month my thumb was back to hanging and hurting. I am getting that fixed when I get my shoulder fixed.

Sorry about the long post but to sum it all up. Some people do get relief from the pain pills without being addicted and some don't. I just think Drs. should do more then to tell you to take some Advil and get use to the pain. Living in pain 24/7 is not a good way to live and we shouldn't expect to live that way.


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## SocialbFly (Apr 20, 2008)

I agree pain on a daily basis is devestating...i can relate, i have a bad back and bad knees and i am having issues with tendonitis in my knees, talk about fricking hurt....


BUT...addiction is not only physical but mental, pain pill useage of that length to the degree you stated is not healthy...

I would suggest going to a pain clinic, and not let a private doc, but pain specialist help you with your pain. I think you indeed have reasons for pain, but i also know there are many many things out there to help with pain other than narcotics for years....

please seek help from a professional pain person...they are trained to help with long term chronic pain and like i said, there are MANY MANY alternatives than the future you now face. 

Please dont take this as preaching, you came to us with a problem, and honestly, i dont think you wanted an answer but this, i suggest you seek some help regarding this.

Good luck.


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 20, 2008)

When I was young my mother was a CNA. She would come home sore all the time, one day a patient kicked her in the back and that was it for her in that profession. She had months and months of physical therapy, and was given prescription pain killers and muscle relaxers. She soon became addicted to how those pills made her feel and even after the prescriptions ran out, managed to always have pills to take. Well my parents lost their house because of those pills. The house they'd lived in for 19 years, gone because of the power a couple of pills held over my mother. 

I hope you find relief from your pain, it sucks I know. Some days my hips hurt me so bad I can barely walk.


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## olwen (Apr 20, 2008)

I remember reading somewhere a long time ago that doctors are limited by the number of prescriptions they can write for schedule III (codeine and benzodiazapienes I think) and IV drugs (strong opiates and amphetamines I think for this one). If they do they get investigated by the DEA or AMA or some such organization. So that could be the reason they don't like to give them out. But that was like 8 years ago. I don't know if that policy still stands. The book I read that in is called _Pills-A-Go-Go_ by Jim Hogshire.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 22, 2008)

Thank you for your concern ladies.. There are no pain clinics close enough for me to go to one.

I have really done my homework about the narcotics I take and how long I should be taking them. My biggest worry is not becoming addicted but how my liver is going to hold out. I honestly believe as much pain as I am in it will take a lot of pain pills to get me addicted. I read this article by a Dr who more or less thinks the same way I do about addiction. Here is part of the article I read. 

_"Narcotic addiction is defined as dependence on the regular use of narcotics to satisfy physical, emotional, and psychological needs rather than for medical reasons. Pain relief is a medical reason for taking narcotics. Therefore, if you take narcotics to relieve your pain, you are not an addict, no matter how much or how often you take narcotic medicines. If you and your doctor decide that narcotics are a proper choice for your pain relief, use them as directed. Addiction is a very common fear of people who take narcotics for pain relief. Narcotic addiction is an emotionally charged subject. You may hear people use the term addiction very loosely without understanding exactly what it means - the compulsive use of habit-forming drugs for their pleasurable effects. Generally, when narcotics are used under proper medical supervision the chance of addiction is very small. Most patients who take narcotics for pain relief can stop taking these drugs if their pain can be controlled by other means. It is important to remember that if narcotics are the only effective way to relieve pain, the patients comfort is more important than any possibility of addiction."_

I don't get pleasure out of my pain pills,I get the relief I need to do the every day things I need to do. Some days I hurt so bad I can not make a pot of coffee, take a shower, do my dishes or my laundry, drive my car, dress or even clean my house, so I take the pills to be able to do these things to function on what I call a nearly normal level. Without these pills I really would not be getting anything done. 

I have tried ibuprofen and other non-narcotic pain pills and my stomach has paid big time. So I stay away from them..

*Now back to my original question. Does anyone else have weird dreams and profuse sweating from taking Lortabs?*


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## Miss Vickie (Apr 22, 2008)

BBB, I didn't have weird dreams when I took it after my surgery in December, but I did have really labile moods and yeah, it did seem like I was sweating a lot, too. I'm not sure how much of it was being post-surgery, but I was in bad shape crying all the time and sweating a lot at night; I remember worrying that I had an infection but my temperature was normal so I chalked it up to recovering from surgery and anesthesia. 

It eventually resolved as I took less of it, but it sure did a number on me until then. Percocet, OTOH, made me a very happy camper; I became very euphoric when taking it, to the point where I want to NEVER take it again because I felt THAT good. I could definitely tell the difference between the two. Vicodin just handled my pain but the Percocet took it to a whole other level and I could see how people could get addicted. 

I think you're right to worry about your liver. That's a whole lotta Tylenol. But if you can't handle NSAIDS, until you resolve the source of the pain, or try non-pharmacologic options, I'm not sure you have too many options.  Just be sure your physician is aware, and see if they'll order regular blood tests to make sure you're doing okay. The issue with addiction in your case is more about tolerance, where you have to take more and more just to get the same level of relief that you got at lower doses. I'm not sure how you avoid that, other than maybe by switching medications periodically. 

I'm sorry you're having such pain. Can they fix it at all? Surgically, I mean? That seems the best option all the way around. Seems like they should be able to offer you something besides pain meds.


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## SocialbFly (Apr 22, 2008)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> Thank you for your concern ladies.. There are no pain clinics close enough for me to go to one.
> 
> I have really done my homework about the narcotics I take and how long I should be taking them. My biggest worry is not becoming addicted but how my liver is going to hold out. I honestly believe as much pain as I am in it will take a lot of pain pills to get me addicted. I read this article by a Dr who more or less thinks the same way I do about addiction. Here is part of the article I read.
> 
> ...



I dont agree with you, i think there may not be a pain clinic close, but for you of all people, i think it is necessary...

i would suggest finding a friend and getting your doc to prescribe this...

many people who truly have addictions can rationalize their drug useage in any way they see fit, it is part of the problem....and no i am not saying you dont have pain, i just think that your problem needs someone else to solve it, and excuses wont help, you asked us....

please please get help....please...


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## Miss Vickie (Apr 22, 2008)

Aren't they also using antidepressants more and more to help control chronic pain? BBB alluded to the fact that it's changed her personality -- and that's no surprise. I lived in chronic (near constant) pain for years from my Sarcoidosis and yeah, it's depressing and makes you impatient, etc. During that time I read that they're trying anti-depressants along with pain meds and having good results.

Pain meds are great in that they take away the pain, but they're not so great in that they mask the cause of the pain. I guess my preference is to fix what the problem is and get out of pain -- if it can be done.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 22, 2008)

SocialbFly said:


> I dont agree with you, i think there may not be a pain clinic close, but for you of all people, i think it is necessary...
> 
> i would suggest finding a friend and getting your doc to prescribe this...
> 
> ...



*I didn't ask you about being addicted to pain pills. I asked about the side effects I was having with the ones I am taking.*

As for rationalizing my using pain pills,*excuse me* but you do not really know me or how I am with pain. My Drs would tell you I handle pain very well and have a very high pain tolerance. I am the woman that worked 8 hours with an appendicitis attack and then finally went to the hospital where they took them out the next morning. You are making assumptions that you really have no right to make about me or my ability to handle pain.

As for the amount of pain I am in, I can sit and tell you until the cows come home but until you live in my body you will never really know. How do I know this? Because I have done it for years and years and the end is always the same. I get told I am just making excuses so I can get on pain pills. I fought myself for years before the pain got to be to much and I turned to the one thing I knew would help me have a half way normal life. 

I will say this one more time, if these pills made me euphoric I would know it is time to change because then I would want more. The pills I take do not do that. They help me survive doing things during the day that most people take for granted.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 22, 2008)

Miss Vickie said:


> Aren't they also using antidepressants more and more to help control chronic pain? BBB alluded to the fact that it's changed her personality -- and that's no surprise. I lived in chronic (near constant) pain for years from my Sarcoidosis and yeah, it's depressing and makes you impatient, etc. During that time I read that they're trying anti-depressants along with pain meds and having good results.
> 
> Pain meds are great in that they take away the pain, but they're not so great in that they mask the cause of the pain. I guess my preference is to fix what the problem is and get out of pain -- if it can be done.




I was on Zoloft until I started the Lortabs. I will not mix the 2 now because it can put me into distress. 

I am getting my shoulder fixed but it will not fix the pain that I have in the rest of my body. 

Believe me I lived for a long time without any kind of pain pills. I just suffered through it and did the best I could. It finally got to the point I could not do it any more. I could not take the pain and I did what I had to do. 

My PA has my blood checked every 3 months and she can check up to see how often I am having my pain meds refilled. It bothers her at times because I go longer between refills at times. I normally do not take very many pills from June until Oct. because the weather stays nice and no drops in the barometric pressure, plus it is warmer and my joints do not get cold and ache.


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 22, 2008)

SocialbFly said:


> I dont agree with you, i think there may not be a pain clinic close, *but for you of all people, i think it is necessary...*
> 
> i would suggest finding a friend and getting your doc to prescribe this...
> 
> ...



I understand your concern and realize that you're a professional in the medical field, but you really have very limited information on who this person is or what ails her. For you to make the comment that I bolded, is really not your place given the limited information you do have.

From what she has stated, she is under the constant care of a physician who monitors her closely. Unless the physician is a total nut job, I'm sure they have discussed the pros and cons of using medication as pain control. I'm sure they've also discussed other methods of pain management. For some, an alternative, holistic approach works, for others it may not.

I see no problems stating your opinion or giving advice, but to make such a broad assumption about someone you don't know, is rather rude. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it if the shoe was on the other foot.


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## SocialbFly (Apr 22, 2008)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> *I didn't ask you about being addicted to pain pills. I asked about the side effects I was having with the ones I am taking.*
> 
> As for rationalizing my using pain pills,*excuse me* but you do not really know me or how I am with pain. My Drs would tell you I handle pain very well and have a very high pain tolerance. I am the woman that worked 8 hours with an appendicitis attack and then finally went to the hospital where they took them out the next morning. You are making assumptions that you really have no right to make about me or my ability to handle pain.
> 
> ...





i am sorry i have stepped on your toes, i never said you rationalized, although your every statement is how you NEED these pills to survive....yes, as Ms Vickie said, they are using antidepressants as pain controllers due to the syndapses they affect....

i know you are angry, i know you came here asking questions regarding otherr pills, but i am telling you, no begging you, to get some other help, you would not be the first patient that got addicted to pain pills with the assistance and blessings of your doc...it is not a sin, it is something that we, as medical professionals have led many people into...remember Heath ledger? He was in pain, mixed and look what happened....and no, i know you have tried to be a very responsable person regarding this, but pain pills of that type are supposed to be short term help until you get the problem fixed.

i do feel you have made many excuses not to see anyone else regarding the pills...i work with kids and have worked with addicted adults, there are a lot of people out there addicted to the things they need to take every day just to get out of bed...you are right to say i dont know you well enough to say you are addicted, but 5-6 years of daily multiple use would lead one to believe. In the hospital, i promise you, that use would be flagged.

i never doubted, nor do i doubt now that you are in pain, you are right when you said i dont know what it feels like to walk in your shoes, but you dont know my history either, i havent told you, so dont make broad assumptions about me either...

the reason i said for you of all people, use of a narcotic for 5-6 years straight alone IS addiction wether you believe it or not, your body has become used to it and will crave it...it isnt your fault it just is...i only ask you to get help above all others because there is SOOOOOOOOO much new technology available for you to make use of, that your doctor, unless he/she is a pain specialist will have no idea about....please, i do think this could change your life....and only for the better....

i am truly sorry if you found my post offensive, if you knew the affects i have seen how drugs affect people, you would be less harsh towards me...

good luck.


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## SocialbFly (Apr 22, 2008)

MisticalMisty said:


> I understand your concern and realize that you're a professional in the medical field, but you really have very limited information on who this person is or what ails her. For you to make the comment that I bolded, is really not your place given the limited information you do have.
> 
> From what she has stated, she is under the constant care of a physician who monitors her closely. Unless the physician is a total nut job, I'm sure they have discussed the pros and cons of using medication as pain control. I'm sure they've also discussed other methods of pain management. For some, an alternative, holistic approach works, for others it may not.
> 
> I see no problems stating your opinion or giving advice, but to make such a broad assumption about someone you don't know, is rather rude. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it if the shoe was on the other foot.




reread what i wrote, and no i wouldnt like it if someone made an assumption, but Misty, this is not something (that i know of) that you have dealt with, i deal with withdrawal from the drugs i give kids DAILY at work...as sometimes even three DAYS of pain meds put some kids into problems of addiction, diarrhea, profuse sweating, irritability, jitteriness, problems sleeping, problems eating, over eating, all signs of problems and are scored on the kids every 4 hours to document their addiction issues and meds to help with them....

i did not prescribe..i asked BBB to get some help from a pain professional, and that is not being judgemental that is said from a point of seeing how they can help with chronic long term pain. The reason it is soooooooooooo important for her, is her chronic long term pain places her at great risk for problems, both physical and psychological, she should (in MY opinion) seek a pain professional to help her, it could change her life for the better.

you came to this arguement ill prepared Misty. i am sorry, but this was never a judgemental statement, dont make it one.


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## MisticalMisty (Apr 22, 2008)

SocialbFly said:


> reread what i wrote, and no i wouldnt like it if someone made an assumption, but Misty, this is not something (that i know of) that you have dealt with, i deal with withdrawal from the drugs i give kids DAILY at work...as sometimes even three DAYS of pain meds put some kids into problems of addiction, diarrhea, profuse sweating, irritability, jitteriness, problems sleeping, problems eating, over eating, all signs of problems and are scored on the kids every 4 hours to document their addiction issues and meds to help with them....
> 
> i did not prescribe..i asked BBB to get some help from a pain professional, and that is not being judgemental that is said from a point of seeing how they can help with chronic long term pain. The reason it is soooooooooooo important for her, is her chronic long term pain places her at great risk for problems, both physical and psychological, she should (in MY opinion) seek a pain professional to help her, it could change her life for the better.
> 
> you came to this arguement ill prepared Misty. i am sorry, but this was never a judgemental statement, dont make it one.



I'm not ill prepared whatsoever and I know way more than you may think I know.

I can understand your concern, but to essentially diagnose someone with an addiction is not your place...medical professional or not.

I really think this thread needs to get back on track. She asked a specific question about side effects. How she chooses to proceed is her own decision...concern noted, appreciated, but unnecessary.


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## SocialbFly (Apr 22, 2008)

bowing out, thanks for everyones time.

Good luck BBB.


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 22, 2008)

MisticalMisty said:


> I'm not ill prepared whatsoever and I know way more than you may think I know.
> 
> I can understand your concern, but to essentially diagnose someone with an addiction is not your place...medical professional or not.
> 
> I really think this thread needs to get back on track. She asked a specific question about side effects. How she chooses to proceed is her own decision...concern noted, appreciated, but unnecessary.



I can understand you feeling like you need to stick up for BBB but she did put it out there and you just can't expect that people aren't going to share their opinions. 

No one said anything out of malice, only out of their own experiences and caring for a fellow member of this community.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 22, 2008)

Ella Bella said:


> I can understand you feeling like you need to stick up for BBB but she did put it out there and you just can't expect that people aren't going to share their opinions.
> 
> No one said anything out of malice, only out of their own experiences and caring for a fellow member of this community.



This is what I put out there.* "This time on them it is different. I am having weird dreams and profuse sweating.They do not keep me asleep for very long but do stop the pain from being so intense. I have never experienced anything like this before. I guess I should mention I live on Darvocettes the 750 mg pills,I take 3 to 6 of them a day or did before starting the Lortabs.

Anyone else have this problem with them? Could I be allergic to them after all this time? Just strange for this to come out of right field."*

AnnMarie is the one that brought up getting addicted to pain pills and ask for me to be careful. Not once did I say I was addicted or thought I was getting addicted to these pills.

Every one is entitled to their own opinion and I do not mind hearing them. I am just looking for an answer to my first and only question.


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 22, 2008)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> This is what I put out there.* "This time on them it is different. I am having weird dreams and profuse sweating.They do not keep me asleep for very long but do stop the pain from being so intense. I have never experienced anything like this before. I guess I should mention I live on Darvocettes the 750 mg pills,I take 3 to 6 of them a day or did before starting the Lortabs.
> 
> Anyone else have this problem with them? Could I be allergic to them after all this time? Just strange for this to come out of right field."*
> 
> ...



Exactly, you put your drug use out there. People are going to discuss it if its out there. I'm sorry you haven't found the answers you were looking for.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 22, 2008)

SocialbFly said:


> reread what i wrote, and no i wouldnt like it if someone made an assumption, but Misty, this is not something (that i know of) that you have dealt with, i deal with withdrawal from the drugs i give kids DAILY at work...as sometimes even three DAYS of pain meds put some kids into problems of addiction, diarrhea, profuse sweating, irritability, jitteriness, problems sleeping, problems eating, over eating, all signs of problems and are scored on the kids every 4 hours to document their addiction issues and meds to help with them....
> 
> i did not prescribe..i asked BBB to get some help from a pain professional, and that is not being judgemental that is said from a point of seeing how they can help with chronic long term pain. The reason it is soooooooooooo important for her, is her chronic long term pain places her at great risk for problems, both physical and psychological, she should (in MY opinion) seek a pain professional to help her, it could change her life for the better.
> 
> you came to this arguement ill prepared Misty. i am sorry, but this was never a judgemental statement, dont make it one.




You deal with kids. I am sorry but I am long past being a kid. I hate the kids have such problems with pain pills and in my opinion no child should be put on pain pills past 1 day.

When I go off the pain meds for days or weeks I have no real big side effects. I have more problems coming off my anti depressants which I have been off of since I started the Lortabs. This is not my first rodeo and I did not go into living on the pain pills with my eyes closed. I did my research about what I was getting myself into. I discussed the pros and cons before I made the decision to do it. I knew what I was getting into.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 22, 2008)

Ella Bella said:


> Exactly, you put your drug use out there. People are going to discuss it if its out there. I'm sorry you haven't found the answers you were looking for.



Discuss it I do not mind but to act like I haven't done research and really thought it through is a bit to much. I assure you and every one else that I knew what I was going to go through when I agreed to the Darvocette.


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## Miss Vickie (Apr 22, 2008)

Ella Bella said:


> Exactly, you put your drug use out there. People are going to discuss it if its out there. I'm sorry you haven't found the answers you were looking for.



Hey, Ella. I did try to answer, and think I addressed her points pretty well. I'm just being ignored because the issue of addiction is bigger. ::shrug:;


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## SocialbFly (Apr 22, 2008)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> I hate the kids have such problems with pain pills and in my opinion no child should be put on pain pills past 1 day.




HUH???

Obviously you know all about pain. Pain pills for ONE day after open heart surgery or cancer? Yeah, right.


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## Risible (Apr 22, 2008)

People, if the arguing continues, this thread will be moved to Hyde Park.

There has been much valuable input here, but it has gone off topic and has now become a discussion on addiction.

Please keep your posts on topic, as the original poster has requested several times.

/mod


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## Waxwing (Apr 23, 2008)

BBB, the sensations you mentioned can happen periodically with any opioid, recreational or medicinal (I know yours are medicinal. Just saying). They can also, from what I understand, come on suddenly if you've taken that class of drugs for a long time. I hate to say it but your body just might not react to them properly anymore, which sucks since you need them. 

Does your doctor have any alternative for you?


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## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 23, 2008)

Miss Vickie said:


> Hey, Ella. I did try to answer, and think I addressed her points pretty well. I'm just being ignored because the issue of addiction is bigger. ::shrug:;



Sorry Miss Vickie there was a couple of questions I wanted to ask and wanted to do it in PM. I had forgotten to send it until late last night.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 23, 2008)

Waxwing said:


> BBB, the sensations you mentioned can happen periodically with any opioid, recreational or medicinal (I know yours are medicinal. Just saying). They can also, from what I understand, come on suddenly if you've taken that class of drugs for a long time. I hate to say it but your body just might not react to them properly anymore, which sucks since you need them.
> 
> Does your doctor have any alternative for you?



I haven't got to talk to him yet. I was going to discuss it at my pre-op appointment next week. See if he could change the meds. I was wondering if my body was building up to much of a tolerance to them this time and this was a way for it to show me.


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## moore2me (Apr 23, 2008)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> Or the generic equivalent Hydroco/APA 7.5.
> 
> I have been taking Lortabs again for some problems I am having with my left shoulder. I have taken them before and they have never bothered me..I lived on them for about 6 years and did not have any problems stopping them nor did they bother me like they are now.
> 
> ...



I totally support BubbleButtBabe on this use of pain medication. I am in the same boat she is in - I too take generic Lorcet plus (only one a day) and have for several years. I have a prescription and take them legally. I will not ramp up my dose - I am fully away of the potential for addiction. I also take Zoloft and a whole witches brew of other drugs to keep me functioning including muscle relaxers (Zanaflex) and Requip (for leg cramps). I also take extra tylenol and as needed and Topamax for headaches. 

My problems are primarily with the multiple sclerosis which causes daily vicious headaches, the base of my neck is stiff and crackles with movement and electricity, my feet cramp up from the knee down usually starting about noon, and my arms and chest start quivering like some one with Parkinson's. It takes the concoction I have mentioned in the previous paragraph to stabilize me enough to live a somewhat normal life. I still have spatiscity, balance problems, and extreme fatigue, but at least I don't flop and quiver (which are extremely un-nerving) and it stops the migranes.

My doctor runs blood tests on me several times a year which include liver tests and I have annual MRI of my brain and spinal column - where most of the problems are right now. 

So some of us that take opioids are not addicts, but unfortunate people who live with chronic health conditions that were are suffering from. I don't want anyone to feel sorry for me - I just want you guys to understand the position some of us are in.

I would like tho, for medical marijuana to be legalized here in my state. I am not using it now, but would like to try to see if it would help calm this nasty disease down from wrecking havoc with my body. I won't use it while it is illegal tho. I am too much of a conservative and chicken.


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## Miss Vickie (Apr 23, 2008)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> Sorry Miss Vickie there was a couple of questions I wanted to ask and wanted to do it in PM. I had forgotten to send it until late last night.



It's okay, don't worry. I got your PM on my way to bed last night. I'll get back to you this morning.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 23, 2008)

moore2me said:


> I totally support BubbleButtBabe on this use of pain medication. I am in the same boat she is in - I too take generic Lorcet plus (only one a day) and have for several years. I have a prescription and take them legally. I will not ramp up my dose - I am fully away of the potential for addiction. I also take Zoloft and a whole witches brew of other drugs to keep me functioning including muscle relaxers (Zanaflex) and Requip (for leg cramps). I also take extra tylenol and as needed and Topamax for headaches.
> 
> My problems are primarily with the multiple sclerosis which causes daily vicious headaches, the base of my neck is stiff and crackles with movement and electricity, my feet cramp up from the knee down usually starting about noon, and my arms and chest start quivering like some one with Parkinson's. It takes the concoction I have mentioned in the previous paragraph to stabilize me enough to live a somewhat normal life. I still have spatiscity, balance problems, and extreme fatigue, but at least I don't flop and quiver (which are extremely un-nerving) and it stops the migranes.
> 
> ...



Thank you Moore. I do not feel sorry for you at all. I applaud you for dealing with such a devastating disease the way you are. 

I have a friend that keeps telling me I need to try marijuana and see if it would help better then the opioids that I take now. She believes I can get better relief from it. Like you tho I wont try it until it is made legal.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 23, 2008)

Miss Vickie said:


> It's okay, don't worry. I got your PM on my way to bed last night. I'll get back to you this morning.



Thank You.


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## Waxwing (Apr 23, 2008)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> I haven't got to talk to him yet. I was going to discuss it at my pre-op appointment next week. See if he could change the meds. I was wondering if my body was building up to much of a tolerance to them this time and this was a way for it to show me.



That could definitely be the case. I'm really sorry you're having these awful side effects.


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## Waxwing (Apr 23, 2008)

moore2me said:


> I would like tho, for medical marijuana to be legalized here in my state. I am not using it now, but would like to try to see if it would help calm this nasty disease down from wrecking havoc with my body. I won't use it while it is illegal tho. I am too much of a conservative and chicken.



I am without question an advocate of legalized marijuana (of all drugs, actually), and it breaks my heart to see someone suffering who could be helped by a drug, but who (understandably) doesn't want to go to jail for it.

I'm sorry you're going through this. 

We can't judge anyone's reason for taking a drug, you know. Until you know what's inside them, don't judge. I know you weren't. I just wanted to proselytize.


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## AnnMarie (Apr 23, 2008)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> AnnMarie is the one that brought up getting addicted to pain pills and ask for me to be careful. Not once did I say I was addicted or thought I was getting addicted to these pills.




Just wanted to be clear, I just quoted two things you posted about addiction and responded. I didn't bring up the subject.

I wish you and anyone in chronic pain only the best in finding the best way to deal with it.


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## Waxwing (Apr 23, 2008)

AnnMarie said:


> I wish you and anyone in chronic pain only the best in finding the best way to deal with it.



On that note, it might be valuable to start a thread about chronic pain and ways of dealing with it. I know so many people going through this same thing, who are at their wits' end. Maybe there are other non-drug tips we can share with each other that will help.


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## LoveBHMS (Apr 23, 2008)

> I would like tho, for medical marijuana to be legalized here in my state. I am not using it now, but would like to try to see if it would help calm this nasty disease down from wrecking havoc with my body. I won't use it while it is illegal tho. I am too much of a conservative and chicken.



One of the two friends I have with MS uses it and says it's a godsend, particularly for coping with muscle spasticity. I am fairly certain I've read that Montel Williams uses it as well.


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## Waxwing (Apr 23, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> One of the two friends I have with MS uses it and says it's a godsend, particularly for coping with muscle spasticity. I am fairly certain I've read that Montel Williams uses it as well.



Yes! I happened to catch his show one day where he said as much. I think that it can be remarkably beneficial to people living with pain.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 24, 2008)

If they did legalize it in OK I would want to try it to see if it worked. If it did then I probably would want to grow some for my own use. Saying that and with the way my luck runs I would be like the man in Colorado. 

He is an army vet with shrapnel in his leg that conventional pain meds do not help with his pain. He had been given a special permit by the Colo. government to grow medicinal marijuana for himself and a couple other vets with the same problem. The Sheriff dept and some of the drug enforcement officials broke into his house one day. They took over 200 plants and destroyed them all. Even the small ones he was growing. In total it was over a 1/4 million dollars worth of marijuana they ceased. After the raid was over and the sheriff's dept had burned all of this man's marijuana they noticed he had a special grow permit on the wall of the room the plants were kept in. So he and his lawyer decided to sue that sheriff dept and the drug enforcement unit to get the money back so he could buy more plants to grow. What was kind of funny about all of this is the sheriff's dept went on the evening news bragging about how they had gotten one of the leading distributors of marijuana in their county.


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## SocialbFly (Apr 24, 2008)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> If they did legalize it in OK I would want to try it to see if it worked. If it did then I probably would want to grow some for my own use. Saying that and with the way my luck runs I would be like the man in Colorado.
> 
> He is an army vet with shrapnel in his leg that conventional pain meds do not help with his pain. He had been given a special permit by the Colo. government to grow medicinal marijuana for himself and a couple other vets with the same problem. The Sheriff dept and some of the drug enforcement officials broke into his house one day. They took over 200 plants and destroyed them all. Even the small ones he was growing. In total it was over a 1/4 million dollars worth of marijuana they ceased. After the raid was over and the sheriff's dept had burned all of this man's marijuana they noticed he had a special grow permit on the wall of the room the plants were kept in. So he and his lawyer decided to sue that sheriff dept and the drug enforcement unit to get the money back so he could buy more plants to grow. What was kind of funny about all of this is the sheriff's dept went on the evening news bragging about how they had gotten one of the leading distributors of marijuana in their county.



Two hundred plants doesnt sound like he was using it for himself and a few other people...

i can only speak from my perception of marijuana, it changed my brother for the rest of his life, and not in a good way, his habitual use is sad and changed him to the ass he is now.

i had a very close friend who used medicinal marijuana for her side effects the chemo caused....i would never say someone couldnt use it for medicinal purposes....

that is why alcohol use is so high among chronic pain people, it does alter your perception of pain, and i have thought on more than one occasion how i need to stay away from it.


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## GenericGeek (Apr 24, 2008)

Miss Vickie said:


> ...
> It eventually resolved as I took less of it, but it sure did a number on me until then. Percocet, OTOH, made me a very happy camper; I became very euphoric when taking it, to the point where I want to NEVER take it again because I felt THAT good. I could definitely tell the difference between the two. Vicodin just handled my pain but the Percocet took it to a whole other level and I could see how people could get addicted.



It's funny how different two different meds that are essentially in the same family (opioids) can affect one, isn't it? (Vicodin = hydrocodone + APAP, Percocet = oxycodone + APAP; oxycodone is about 50% more potent than hydrocodone.)

According to "The People's Pharmacy", "Possible side effects to be aware of include weakness, euphoria, loss of appetite, *sweating *and constipation. " So the sweating is a fairly common side effect of Lortab/Vicodin, it seems.

I agree with BBB regarding the lessened risk of addiction (NOT dependence, or tolerance, rather) when one is in genuine pain. I've suffered pretty horribly during bouts of kidney stones, and at those times only morphine (or Dilaudid, even!) could ease the pain.  But I hadn't the slightest desire to continue using them, once the stones passed. The worst of these bouts lasted over a week, so it wasn't just a matter of one or two doses of opiates -- I had to be using them *continuously*, just to stay on top of the pain.

(Nor is addiction a concern with terminal cancer patients. The opposite is often the case, because the dosages required to dull the pain often make them spacey, or cause them to nod off altogether. My best friend John had to take massive amounts of morphine to cope with his pain -- and his wife had to practically _beg _him to take enough of the stuff!)

BUT, BBB: I also worry about the long-term use of large quantities of acetaminophen, AND agree that looking into alternative, or complementary approaches to pain management might be an excellent idea. Neurontin (Gabapentin), an inexpensive med originally developed to control seizures, is often useful for many kinds of pain. Many people find that acupuncture helps them, and portable electrical stimulators (TENS units) are used for management of certain kinds of pain, too.

This is why finding a clinic that specializes in pain management is a GREAT idea, because they'll be knowledgeable in all the "tricks of the trade". The goal is not to take away your only source of comfort -- it's to find you the *best possible* relief of your suffering!

 Good luck


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## GenericGeek (Apr 24, 2008)

moore2me said:


> ...
> I would like tho, for medical marijuana to be legalized here in my state. I am not using it now, but would like to try to see if it would help calm this nasty disease down from wrecking havoc with my body. I won't use it while it is illegal tho. I am too much of a conservative and chicken.



Moore2me, please consider this: a *true *conservative stance is one that favors smaller government, and more individual freedom, while insisting that the individual behaves responsibly, no? ("The best government is one that governs least", and all that.)

I'm 100% in favor of relieving people's suffering, even if stupid, immoral laws get in the way of that goal. Perhaps that is more "libertarian" than "conservative" or "liberal", but no matter. I think it's only common sense that people be helped, rather than harmed, by the government that is supposedly in place to serve their best interests! :doh:

Aside from that -- have you considered moving to (or visiting) a state or country where medicinal cannabis use is allowed, or at least tolerated?


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## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 24, 2008)

SocialbFly said:


> Two hundred plants doesnt sound like he was using it for himself and a few other people...
> 
> i can only speak from my perception of marijuana, it changed my brother for the rest of his life, and not in a good way, his habitual use is sad and changed him to the ass he is now.
> 
> ...



*I can't really say because I do not use marijuana never have and would only if I was assured it would help me. Thinking from a farmer's stand point tho that would make sense. A crop ready to harvest,a crop close to harvest,mid sized plants to be harvested at a latter date and then of course small ones to replace the ones that are being harvested. If his demand was reasonable he would need to keep his supply going. Just makes sense to me.

With the meds I take I stay away from alcohol. Did drink some before I got on the meds and yes it does help to dull the pain enough to at least sleep.*



GenericGeek said:


> It's funny how different two different meds that are essentially in the same family (opioids) can affect one, isn't it? (Vicodin = hydrocodone + APAP, Percocet = oxycodone + APAP; oxycodone is about 50% more potent than hydrocodone.)
> 
> According to "The People's Pharmacy", "Possible side effects to be aware of include weakness, euphoria, loss of appetite, *sweating *and constipation. " So the sweating is a fairly common side effect of Lortab/Vicodin, it seems.
> 
> ...



*Thanks, I looked for the side effect and found the constipation and sleepiness but nothing about the sweating.

I worry about the longer term use of the acetaminophen on my liver as well. That is why I have the blood test every 3 months. My Dr insists on it and I have it done. 

As for the "tens units" I would have to use 11 of them strapped to my body to get the kind of relief I would need,so that is not a feasible alternative. 

My son used the Neurontin for the pain in his knee. After a month on them he got no relief whatsoever. I want something that is a sure bet before I go on them and get rid of what I am taking now. I lived in pain for so long without relief that now that I have found it, I do not want to let it go,not unless I can find something that works as well as the opioids do.

What you have to understand is I am a poor person. The only reason I get to see the Dr so much is because I use the free Native clinic close to my house. Free medical care and free meds. I can not afford any extra expenses at this time. If there was a free pain clinic close by that I could drive to I would go to it.*


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## moore2me (Apr 24, 2008)

GenericGeek said:


> Moore2me, please consider this: a *true *conservative stance is one that favors smaller government, and more individual freedom, while insisting that the individual behaves responsibly, no? ("The best government is one that governs least", and all that.)
> 
> I'm 100% in favor of relieving people's suffering, even if stupid, immoral laws get in the way of that goal. Perhaps that is more "libertarian" than "conservative" or "liberal", but no matter. I think it's only common sense that people be helped, rather than harmed, by the government that is supposedly in place to serve their best interests! :doh:
> 
> Aside from that -- have you considered moving to (or visiting) a state or country where medicinal cannabis use is allowed, or at least tolerated?



I appreciate your post GenericGeek. Yes, I moved a lot when I was younger. I have lived in 21 different places. Now that I am old and hubby is a senior citizen (61) and our families are nearby we will probably never move again more than a few miles. Moving great distances (to another state) is for the young, daring, and energetic. I am none of these. 

Even traveling for a vacation now is more trouble than it's worth when you are dealing with MS and it's associated issues. But, I have seen a lot of our country and I am content with having visited San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Chesapeake Bay, New York City, New Orleans, Galveston, Houston, Chicago, St. Louis, Denver, Albuquerque, Atlanta, and Gatlinburg, among other places.

And I understand the laws about crossing a state line transporting illegal drugs and there is no way this chick is going to get caught up in that trap. For one thing, I couldn't handle the prison toilets!!!!


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## GenericGeek (Apr 25, 2008)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> *I can't really say because I do not use marijuana never have and would only if I was assured it would help me. Thinking from a farmer's stand point tho that would make sense. A crop ready to harvest,a crop close to harvest,mid sized plants to be harvested at a latter date and then of course small ones to replace the ones that are being harvested. If his demand was reasonable he would need to keep his supply going. Just makes sense to me.
> 
> With the meds I take I stay away from alcohol. Did drink some before I got on the meds and yes it does help to dull the pain enough to at least sleep.*
> 
> ...



I guess what I'm trying to say is, that while there's probably not one silver bullet that will fix everything for you, the synergistic action of several approaches, working together, might be a great help.

As for cost, Neurontin is an old drug, and is _dirt cheap_ (at least as a generic.). It's also relatively safe as far as drug interactions go, so you could conceivably *try *it before going off or reducing your other meds.


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## GenericGeek (Apr 25, 2008)

moore2me said:


> I appreciate your post GenericGeek. Yes, I moved a lot when I was younger. I have lived in 21 different places. Now that I am old and hubby is a senior citizen (61) and our families are nearby we will probably never move again more than a few miles. Moving great distances (to another state) is for the young, daring, and energetic. I am none of these.
> 
> Even traveling for a vacation now is more trouble than it's worth when you are dealing with MS and it's associated issues. But, I have seen a lot of our country and I am content with having visited San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Chesapeake Bay, New York City, New Orleans, Galveston, Houston, Chicago, St. Louis, Denver, Albuquerque, Atlanta, and Gatlinburg, among other places.
> 
> And I understand the laws about crossing a state line transporting illegal drugs and there is no way this chick is going to get caught up in that trap. For one thing, I couldn't handle the prison toilets!!!!



Yeah, but there's always the free health care to consider... 

Here's hoping that all of us who suffer from chronic degenerative conditions find relief!


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## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 25, 2008)

I agree with you Generic I do not think any one should have to live with this type of pain. Maybe when I am 100 they will find a cure for most of them. Have my fingers crossed.

I would like to thank every one for their input in this thread especially Moore2,Miss Vickie,Waxwing and GenericGreek. I go next week and will ask the Dr for something different without as many side effect. Again thank you all..


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## moore2me (Apr 25, 2008)

GenericGeek said:


> Yeah, but there's always the free health care to consider...
> 
> Here's hoping that all of us who suffer from chronic degenerative conditions find relief!



As to free health care in Arkansas prisons - have you ever watched the movie *Brubaker* with Robert Redford? That was about what happens in Arkansas prisons. True, it was 30 or 40 years ago, but if you put earrings and perfume on a mule, it's still a mule.

(They actually cut the legs off of dead men so they would fit in the pre-made coffins when they buried them in unmarked graves.)

Not more than twenty five years ago, I actually went on-site at one of our "beautiful" modern correctional facilities to investigate a prisoner complaint. The correctional officers had actually punished a group of prisoners by making the go down inside a huge underground septic tank pump station and dip it out using buckets tied to ropes that were hauled out overhead. Now there's a job nobody would want. That's why they make vacuums on septic tank trucks. (Sorry, BlubbleB to get off track like this.)


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## irish_redhead (May 4, 2008)

On the issue of needing pain control vs. the possibility of addiction:

I'm a firm believer that there are people with addictive personalities, and there are people who don't have addictive tendencies. As a smoker, I know where my addiction lies. 

3 years ago I was injured at work (as a nurse), and have several disc herniations and issues in my upper and lower back as a result. It took forever to diagnose, let alone treat properly. I spent 2 years in constant, agonizing pain... each day, every day. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't get comfortable, I did not have one complete hour without pain - for nearly 2 years. I was prescribed Percocet as needed. To have an effect, I would have had to take them every 2 hours - something I wasn't wanting to do, and my doc sure as hell wouldn't prescribe that much. I'm also on 600 mg Ibuprofen 3 times a day - it doesn't help really, but when I stop taking them I feel worse, so I know they're doing something for the inflammation (sacroilitis). 

My doctor is pretty conservative - and pretty clueless - when it comes to pain control. He didn't want to take any steps to put me on harsher drugs, but a specialist that I saw had some recommendations, and my doc started prescribing. So for the past 15 months I've been on Oxycontin - started at 10 mg twice a day, now up to 20 mg twice a day. It's a strong narcotic, and one that is MISused for recreational purposes. The drug is long-acting and lasts for 12 hours (people crush them and snort, shoot or chew them for the immediate, potentially deadly, high).

After starting the Oxycontin, I changed drastically. I started sleeping again, and I discovered that I could actually get comfortable and be restful - completely free from pain. I'm still fighting with the fact that activity increases the pain drastically some days, but it's a start. I don't want to increase the dose too much too fast, and would rather take the minimum I have to (I get a lot of dizziness, sleepiness when I increase the dose). I'm still on the Percocet, but only one per day for breakthrough pain in the late afternoon. 

My friends/family are concerned about the potential for addiction. My doctor is concerned about the potential for addiction. There's a lot of bad press surrounding the drug - and a lot of misinformation. Hell, I'm concerned about the potential for addiction. 

However - I do NEED this drug. Not to get high, not to feel "good"... but I need the relief it provides so that I can get out of bed and actually function. Without the drug, the pain is extremely limiting. Right now the quality of life on the drug is better than it is off the drug. I don't believe that NEEDING pain relief is indicative of addiction. It's a fact of life. We tried a couple of antidepressants as well - for the pain relief - and I had an allergic reaction (hives and swelling etc.), so those aren't an option. The Oxycontin gets me through the day. 

If the day comes when I feel chemically dependant - and not for the pain relief, but for the euphoria - I'll have to deal with finding an alternative. Right now I don't get high or stoned on it - and when I do (with the Percocet) I absolutely hate the feeling of being out of control. I hate being stoned, or even really drunk... always have. Right now I have probably an entire month's supply of the drug as extra - I get my script every month, but over the past year there have been enough times that I've forgotten or missed a dose... to me that indicates that addiction isn't really a problem. If the pain isn't so bad one day, I don't necessarily remember to take my pills. If I was dependent on the drug, I wouldn't forget - I'd be timing my next fix so to speak. 

There's not much I can do to convince people that I'm not at risk for addiction at the moment... as I said, there's a lot of negative reaction to narcotics, especially this strong. But I do believe that this route is the best option for me. 

On the other hand - and I know I'm getting really wordy! LOL! I'm actually medicated on Sinus meds for a cold right now, and can't sleep due to my coughing.... - I've seen people who do abuse Oxy, Percs, Vicodin etc. If you are taking XXX number of these pills per day (and most of them are short acting meds - meaning you get maybe 3 or 4 hours of relief, if that) then there is a real problem. 

The problem may not be with you - the problem may not be addiction. But to say you need to take 6 or 8 or 10 pills a day to deal with the pain means there is a HUGE problem with the effectiveness of the medication. If that's the case, you should be seeing a pain specialist to find an alternative. As needed (PRN) prescriptions for pain relief is not a good option. You should be seeking someone with experience in pain control and getting on something that is long-acting and more effective for your pain. Once you find that, you'll find you don't need to take so many pills in a day. 

If you're taking Darvocet and Lortab and still aren't achieving the desired effect, and have to take several, then I'm not only concerned about addiction, but I'm concerned that your doctor isn't treating you appropriately and working to find a drug that will truly help you increase your quality of life, as opposed to just maintaining a tolerable level of pain. 

Finally - someone mentioned that: _I know that my friend with fibro takes stronger drugs now then she did 2 years ago to help alleviate the pain and find some relief._

Chronic pain and pain disorders are 2 completely different things. Having chronic pain because of a physical injury or ailment has a much better prognosis for finding analgesic treatment that works. Pain disorders are typically better treated through other holistic methods. Fibromyalgia is NOT properly treated with narcotics - in fact a lot of Fibro patients get very little relief from pills. I've dealt with this in the workplace, as well as with a close friend. Most doctors won't even prescribe narcotics for people with Fibro anymore, especially if there is no other structural injury to support the pain issues. Rheumatologists pursue other avenues of treatement much more effectively. Your injury-related pain is not comparable to the pain experienced with Fibro or any other pain disorder. Not that their pain isn't valid, but it is different, and shouldn't be treated similarly. 

To address your original question - drugs can have many many side effects. How you react to them can change over time, and can change with prolonged use. You may absolutely experience side effects now that you never experienced before. If you're concerned about a conflict between 2 meds, ask your pharmacist. And always know what side effects you should be concerned about, and be alert for any changes over time.


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## OC4bbws (Aug 13, 2008)

Mental and phsical addiction. I went to rehab for them. Its very close to being heroin.
However from time to time I use them for pain since I have gained self control over the use of them.


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