# Pornography's place in Size Acceptance



## JulianW (Apr 8, 2014)

Hey all, I'm doing a project for school and would like some input. (Im not going to put personal info or the name of the site out there, just looking for general attitude).
There has been a lot of research claiming that pornography can perpetuate harmful attitudes toward woman and inaccurate/unfair expectations about relationships with them. I want to look at the relationship between how porn can help one explore their sexuality and how it can also shape it (for better or worse). Of course most research focuses on thin-centric porn and the people attracted to it. 
Fat admirers, if you watch(ed) pornographic material, do you think it made you more comfortable with your preference? Fat porn seems to be different in that doesnt contain a lot of the overt violence of more mainstream stuff, but do you notice any potentially harmful/misleading ideas in it?
I know for me in middle school, finding sites like Big Cuties helped me feel less awkward about my preference. But also led to the expectation that fat women are all confident with their body (which I discovered wasnt the case years later).
Although this kind of stuff seems to be marketed towards men, if any women have any input it would be welcome. I think these questions are relevant to the community and apologize if it's been asked before or if this is the wrong thread for it.


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## Extinctor100 (Apr 9, 2014)

(Do the paysites like Bigcuties.com count as "porn"? Despite there being partial-to-full nudity, there isn't any *sexual* content... Just asking for the sake of clarity and to help you out better.)

As a disclaimer, I don't watch porn overall. Seeing people have sex and I'm not one of them, doesn't really do anything for me.

People have mixed opinions about pornography's effect on society's view of women: Some believe it's a form of sexual liberation, and to censor it is to censor women's naked bodies and suppress female sexuality. Others believe it is promoting the objectification of women and reinforcing for men that women exist to gratify them. I personally believe it's the latter... that if a man can click a mouse button and get instant gratification, it's going to engender and encourage the attitude that if he can get it for nothing from his computer, he ought to get it for nothing from a woman. So while I'm not a "let's ban porn" chanting, pitchfork-lifting type, I think it undermines an essential respect for women and female sexuality in general. If you can get it more easily, its value has overall decreased dramatically. Economics 101.

As far as Size Acceptance? Mehhhhhhhhhh I'm not sure BBW porn is so much a positive force as maybe an indicator of the culture shift already happening. I think it's very telling that "Fat" and "BBW" has some of the highest video counts and views of any category on most porn sites. I believe a study done relatively recently pointed out that BBW Porn is searched for more on the Internet than skinny porn is, indicating (according to the article) that there is possibly more of a closet demand for plus-sized sex than what men are getting from their partners.

I'll be the first to praise this very website, along with Bigcuties.com and Gaininggoddess.com, as my first contact with BBW-positive material online. I was like 17 or 18 years old and it really reaffirmed for me nicely that it was okay to like plus-sized women and that lots of other people also thought they were sexy/beautiful too. I didn't get any unrealistic notions about their confidence levels though, I knew good and well how it worked in the real world.

Hope that helps, bro!


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## Tina (Apr 9, 2014)

Pornography and Size Acceptance are absolutely two different things. If you've got someone who is sizeist and who discriminates against fat people in public, but who jerks off to fat porn in private, that does NOTHING to advance the rights or quality of life for fat people. It is positively mutually exclusive. The only thing that fat porn can do for an FA who needs validation for their preference is to show that there's always someone willing to make money on flesh, no matter what size.

Also, I think that porn is a personal thing and that whatever gets you off is porn. If you spend time every day, or however often, looking at photos of videos of fully dressed, headless fat women driving around on mobility carts, while you whack off, for you, that is porn.


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## Dromond (Apr 9, 2014)

Porn is for getting your rocks off. It's not empowering, uplifting, nor promoting size acceptance. It has no place at the size acceptance table.

I'm not knocking porn, that would be hypocritical. It's just not a size acceptance thing. It's a hormonal thing.

Edit: I just realized I didn't fully address the question. Pornography had zero influence on my liking big women, as well as having no affect on my comfort level. I never had discomfort with my preference. I decided I liked large ladies, and I started dating them. That's all there was to it.


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## CastingPearls (Apr 9, 2014)

I agree with both Tina and Dromond. 

It's not the same as fat acceptance or size acceptance and hasn't affected my preferences or how I perceive myself or identify as a fat woman. 

Also, I disagree that fat porn isn't as violent or abusive as any other porn. I've seen some really violent and abusive fat porn, and the same with thin porn. I don't see a lot of great fat porn, and next to zero fat erotica, and I'm not referring to literature or pics, but film. For the most part, if you're looking for anything at all, you're going to find it in all its incarnations but some is stupid-easier to find than another.


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## Tina (Apr 9, 2014)

I will say that I know that for guys in particular, it can feel very validating to realize there's fat porn out there. In the 'olden' days, even moreso, because back then there weren't as many fat people, it wasn't as accepted to be with a fat person, and fat porn was more difficult to find, and it was seen as more of a novelty joke, not seriously sexy. As a woman, it can feel validating, if not objectifying, to know that there are guys out there who prefer being with a fat woman over a thin one. But when it comes to the realm of porn itself, as Drommond says, it's just for getting your rocks off, and it has no real part in SA advocacy, just as 'regular' porn has no real part in any other mainstream social movement regarding any other marginalized group, such as the disabled, civil rights, etc.


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## RedVelvet (Apr 9, 2014)

There is none. I suppose it can help people feel less alone. Maybe that is supportive.

But...porn is porn is porn. And it grows increasingly degrading, depressing and objectifying...bleh.

I actually like porn..but it's hard to find the good stuff. I end up watching gay porn because the men are handsome and I don't have to watch women fake kissing, fake orgasming, and faking utter delight in their awkward poses and painful over the top sexual acts that are ever more hardcore....gotta feed the "newness" machine at all times.

Bleh. Hardly good for the soul. Hardly good for self acceptance. 

Gets your rocks off, tho.


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## superodalisque (Apr 9, 2014)

i don't think it has a place in SA because it is objectifying and all of it has some level of degradation that is definitely not compatible . it does not actually support size acceptance because it only creates a new set of standards and different ways to objectify people. sites like big cuties are porn as well because it is used for the same purpose as any other porn. the only difference is that the actual focus isn't on sexual organs but on fat. so it's sexual in a different way but people look at it for the same kinds of experiences and feelings that people get from watching other forms of porn. it's the same as going to a shoe fetish site. it's just shoes but...

it is a big mistake to think that anything to do with porn has anything to do with the real feelings of fat women. nothing about porn is real. people in porn are being paid to do and say what they do and to keep a fantasy going. if you really want to know about fat people ask a fat friend. ask real fat folk out on the street--not a marketing creation. the real issue with porn in SA is that men are pandered to in the same ways that regular porn panders to men and it warps their sense of reality. being naked does not show confidence. if you read any statistics about porn it generally shows just the opposite--that most involved have been abused and/or have or had a poor body image. 

i can understand that people want to feel normal about being attractive to fat folk but the best way to do that is by looking around at people who freely engage in relationships around you without any commercial marketing considerations and talk to them. there are so many real couples out there dating having relationships and being married etc... truly all porn is good or is getting off on. it's better to come clean about that instead of rationalizing not feeling alone. the sites actually make fat more taboo and extreme than it is in real life. so somehow that idea does not ring true to me. mostly i think porn in the community relates behaviors and mindsets that make it much harder for men to be attractive to fat women in the real world.


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## bigmac (Apr 10, 2014)

I'm not understanding the hostility toward BBW porn. Guess BBWs want to be thought of as sexy -- but not too sexy.


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## superodalisque (Apr 10, 2014)

bigmac said:


> I'm not understanding the hostility toward BBW porn. Guess BBWs want to be thought of as sexy -- but not too sexy.



i wouldn't expect you would understand why a lot of us don't think it has anything to do with SA. maybe you'd be shocked to know that a lot of web models don't privately think it has anything to do with SA either. and haven't a lot of men themselves here said directly that they don't want their BBW porn to be truly SA anyway? so i don't know what you are on about.


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## bigmac (Apr 10, 2014)

SA is inextricably linked to sexuality. Fighting the perception that fat people are sexually unattractive is central to SA. Fat positive porn showcases the fact that BBWs can be beautiful and sexy. Like it or not web models are ambassadors of SA (even if they never intended to be).


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## Jah (Apr 10, 2014)

I think that porn can have both positive and negative effects on SA. In some ways it can help with people's attraction to bbws and they wouldn't feel so alienated about their sexual attractions when they see that there is plenty of porn for them to look at. I don't think porn is necessarily bad, whether it's bad or not depends on the person looking at it.


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## AuntHen (Apr 10, 2014)

bigmac said:


> SA is inextricably linked to sexuality. Fighting the perception that fat people are sexually unattractive is central to SA. Fat positive porn showcases the fact that BBWs can be beautiful and sexy. Like it or not web models are ambassadors of SA (even if they never intended to be).



Life for humans is linked to sex/sexuality but it doesn't mean it's a key point or focus for a particular cause. Fat people have the same rights for sex or a sexual relationship, just like anyone else but are we going to use it to promote ourselves? I mean, come on. It comes along with the part of being treated like humans, people that have worth and value, just like anyone else.

Web models ambassadors? Are you serious? If anything, all that does is emphasize that we are still being judged by the physical only.


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## wrestlingguy (Apr 10, 2014)

In my opinion, fat porn (remember, fat porn covers both genders) does nothing for size acceptance. People are either attracted to a fat body form or they aren't. 

A person who isn't attracted to a fat form will never understand the attraction. They may respect that others are, but won't get it. 

Don't believe me? Take a look at the comments section of some of the videos that get posted on YouTube. I've never seen someone say that they were "moved" to understand the struggles of SA


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## bigmac (Apr 10, 2014)

fat9276 said:


> Life for humans is linked to sex/sexuality but it doesn't mean it's a key point or focus for a particular cause. Fat people have the same rights for sex or a sexual relationship, just like anyone else but are we going to use it to promote ourselves? I mean, come on. It comes along with the part of being treated like humans, people that have worth and value, just like anyone else.
> 
> *Web models ambassadors? Are you serious? If anything, all that does is emphasize that we are still being judged by the physical only.*



Never said they were the best kind of ambassadors. However, as some of the most prominent members of the plus size community (just look at the forum numbers) its a role they've been thrust into.

Anyone initially investigating in the plus sized world is going to come upon lots of BBW porn. Like everyone else fat people are sexual -- this is not a bad thing. *IMHO the acceptance of fat sex is part in parcel of the acceptance of fat people generally.*

_Note: Lest anyone think I'm trying to promote the fat porn economy yet me just say that its my personal rule never to pay for sex in any form so I have never spent a dime on internet porn fat or otherwise._


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## AuntHen (Apr 10, 2014)

^ It shouldn't be about FAT sex bigmac, fat *people *are just that, PEOPLE. People are allowed and have the right to have sex.

It's an *inherent right *as humans. It is part of the whole. It comes with the package of being considered equal to or just as good as, etc. The movement is about THE WHOLE.

Porn is there if someone wishes to partake but it's not for everyone and ALL people should be able to take part in this movement without getting into a battle about whether porn is good or bad/necessary or unnecessary.


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## Tina (Apr 10, 2014)

All fat porn is is an acknowledgment that some people are sexually attracted to fat women and that they like to have sex with fat women, or wish they could. THAT IS ALL. It is not a statement about how worthy a fat woman is, how intelligent she is, how kind she is, or how deserving of ACCEPTANCE of her humanity or rights in society she is, which really is what SIZE ACCEPTANCE is all about. 

Go back to your cave, Mac. You're just trying to stir things up, as you have always been since day one of your time here.


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## Tina (Apr 10, 2014)

JulianW said:


> Fat admirers, if you watch(ed) pornographic material, do you think it made you more comfortable with your preference?


I would think it would. Back when fat women in porn were just a joke, or didn't exist much at all, there was little validation of a fat woman's sexuality within that realm, or of the preference for the man who found her attractive above all others.



> Fat porn seems to be different in that doesn’t contain a lot of the overt violence of more &#8216;mainstream’ stuff...


It certainly does, if you look around enough to find it. Also, some would consider feeding against one's will to be violent.



> do you notice any potentially harmful/misleading ideas in it?


Good question. TONS (literally) of things that either confirm stereotypes that actually damage fat acceptance, or create whole new ones.


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## KHayes666 (Apr 10, 2014)

I agree with most of everyone who's posted.

If some of the bbw models I've run into, spoken with, etc are our representation of size acceptance, we're in big f*cking trouble.


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## FatManRocks (Apr 10, 2014)

Thank God for fat porn. 

I grew up in a family and community that treated fat as a tragic failure. Being fat was acceptable only if you were ashamed of yourself. If you loved a fat person, you were kind and generous to see past the horror of their body. Being sexually attracted to a fat person was inconceivable. I was both fat and attracted to fat, so I felt like nothing; an embarrassment. By the time I reached puberty, I understood anything sexual as something that I wasn't entitled to. When everyone went off to play spin the bottle, I voluntarily stayed behind - I did not see myself as having a place there.

I grew up before the Internet, and fat people in the media were presented as comic buffoons, diet before-pics, tabloid nonsense, or simply pathetic. I was eighteen years old before I saw an image of a fat woman presented as sincerely sexual, and not a joke. I vividly remember the moment I first saw Layla LaShelle (RIP) smiling back at me from the cover of BUF magazine, and the sight of a beautiful, abundantly fat woman in the porn section blew my mind. It meant that others were attracted to fat, too. It meant that maybe - maybe - the things that turned me on weren't so weird. A person could legitimately lust after fatness.

I know it might sound odd to talk about porn legitimizing anything. I'm not trying to make a case in favor or against pornography as an industry. All I know is for a shy kid who grew up believing his desires were worse than deviant, fat porn was a fucking revelation. And thank God for it.


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## ScreamingChicken (Apr 10, 2014)

Like Tina pointed out, I can definitely see how it might factor in to one's Self Acceptance as a FA or BBW. 

As a part of Size Acceptance? MAYBE (and that's a really big MAYBE) ...but if it does it would take up a very narrow bandwidth.(if that makes any sense).


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## bigmac (Apr 10, 2014)

fat9276 said:


> ^ It shouldn't be about FAT sex bigmac, fat *people *are just that, PEOPLE. People are allowed and have the right to have sex.
> 
> It's an *inherent right *as humans. It is part of the whole. It comes with the package of being considered equal to or just as good as, etc. The movement is about THE WHOLE.
> 
> Porn is there if someone wishes to partake but it's not for everyone and ALL people should be able to take part in this movement without getting into a battle about whether porn is good or bad/necessary or unnecessary.



Inherent right to sex? I'm going to have to borrow that one. Your honor my client was just exercising his inherent right to sex.


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## superodalisque (Apr 10, 2014)

fat porn is for fat people and the people who ALREADY like fat people. if somebody doesn't already like fat women and they see fat porn all they are going to do is repost it on the web and make jokes about it. SA is about being powerful. it is not about being weak and begging doofuses to like what you look like naked when there are plenty of people around who already like you exactly as you are. SA is about diminishing prejudice. the only way you can do that is by exercising power by punishing people who discriminate, by developing laws and not spending our cash with people who discriminate against fat people. it also helps to positively reinforce those who support equality, by spending our dollars with them, voting for them etc...


as with being black, i could care less about whether someone else likes it or not. they had just better get out of the way of my living my life. you won't find me getting naked for klansmen because i want them to like me. the biggest problem is some fat folk really do feel something is wrong with them so they don't see at happens to them as discrimination. they see their fat as a flaw somehow deserving of negative attention. therefore they think people have a right to behave in a prejudicial way. it's not our fault if people don't like what we look like. we don't need to be the Uncle Toms of fat people in order to progress. we don't have anything to prove. they just better behave.


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## Tina (Apr 11, 2014)

Right. On. Wish I could rep you, Supero.


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## CleverBomb (Apr 11, 2014)

bigmac said:


> Inherent right to sex? I'm going to have to borrow that one. Your honor my client was just exercising his inherent right to sex.



It's covered under "_...and the Pur&#383;uit of Happine&#383;s_".


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## Dromond (Apr 11, 2014)

Tina said:


> Right. On. Wish I could rep you, Supero.



I got her for both of us.


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## bigmac (Apr 11, 2014)

superodalisque said:


> fat porn is for fat people and the people who ALREADY like fat people. if somebody doesn't already like fat women and they see fat porn all they are going to do is repost it on the web and make jokes about it. SA is about being powerful. * it is not about being weak and begging doofuses to like what you look like naked *when there are plenty of people around who already like you exactly as you are. ...



You have a seriously negative attitude toward over sexuality. Despite what puritans may think be sexually provocative is not a sign of weakness -- its not the females who are generally doing the begging. You've got the power dynamics of female sexuality backwards.


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## Dromond (Apr 11, 2014)

A male lecturing a female on the power dynamics of female sexuality strikes me as being a very moronic thing to do.


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## bigmac (Apr 11, 2014)

Dromond said:


> A male lecturing a female on the power dynamics of female sexuality strikes me as being a very moronic thing to do.



You don't need to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.


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## Dromond (Apr 11, 2014)

What a terrible analogy.


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## Yakatori (Apr 11, 2014)

Terrible because the analogy doesn't really apply? Or for how it does?

For the word-cue "_wind_," the first thing that comes to my mind: _change_.


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## bigmac (Apr 11, 2014)

Dromond said:


> What a terrible analogy.



No one questions it when women examine and critique male behavior -- ironically such inquiry is a large part of the discipline of "women's" studies. You don't have to be a male to observe and comment upon male sexuality. Likewise you don't have to be a woman to observe and comment upon female sexuality.


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## Wild Zero (Apr 11, 2014)

Getting naked and begging dudes for attention was pretty much the word salad vomiting troll's primary function from what I recall of the MySpace days of yore. It does make this discussion a little funny.

Personally I find nothing wrong with what anyone chooses to do with their bodies whether it's artistic nudity, boudoir photography, pin-up photos or hardcore as long as all the participants are empowered. Is porn part of SA? I'd venture that the majority isn't, but as there is feminist porn so too can there be porn produced by fat people that doesn't hold fat bodies up for shaming and ridicule. It's more a product of SA, that someone would feel empowered to produce body positive erotica, than a cause of.


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## AuntHen (Apr 11, 2014)

bigmac said:


> Inherent right to sex? I'm going to have to borrow that one. Your honor my client was just exercising his inherent right to sex.




BIG difference between sex and sex CRIME bigmac. Quit trying to make an argument that isn't there.

Ever heard of Maslow... well here you go.


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## bigmac (Apr 11, 2014)

fat9276 said:


> BIG difference between sex and sex CRIME bigmac. Quit trying to make an argument that isn't there.
> 
> Ever heard of Maslow... well here you go.




Never understood what the hell self-actualization actually means in practice -- its just a bunch of nice words.


Also, not every post is a serious argument.


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## Tina (Apr 11, 2014)

Trolls make red-herring-based accusations and twist words in order to derail and destroy. Don't feed the troll.


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## choudhury (Apr 11, 2014)

To get back onto the interesting subject. I'm looking at it strictly from the standpoint of an FA, though.

Part of it depends on what "porn" means. I actually don't like traditional porn (BBW or otherwise) involving explicit sex acts. It does nothing at all for me. I don't even need full nudity. What does do it for me is pictures and videos of BBWs. Clothes are fine. And what especially does it, personally speaking, is eating videos. Not videos of forced feeding, but of a big woman stuffing herself.

That sounds like porn to me. Certainly the effect is the same. But I'm not sure how "objectifying" it is. Is it dehumanizing to watch a woman voluntarily film herself and overeat? That seems like a stretch. But maybe so.

As for how things have changed, I'm old enough to have grown up in the pre-internet era and let me tell you, it's worlds apart. First of all, it was incredibly hard to find BBW materials, especially in smaller towns. As a sexually frustrated teen, I always envied guys who could see erotically beautiful women everywhere they looked (ads, movies, magazines, etc.) while I was left ogling the "fuller fit" section of the catalogue  

That may be sort of funny, but this frustration was unhealthy. I had a tendency to be on the lookout all the time for hot BBWs and - because I was uncomfortable with my own sexuality, didn't know how to deal with it - I would try to file away the image in my mind. If a particularly hot woman was, say, working at a store, I'd occasionally swing by just to check her out. Not too often, for fear of getting spotted. It was my answer to the sort of mental holiday that porn traditionally offers. But that tendency to fixate is FAR more objectifying and creepy than enjoying erotic images of BBWs who are freely choosing to offer those images online. 

So the internet provides a huge support network where you can learn that you're not just nuts, that this is a pretty common thing. For SURE that helps self-acceptance and therefore, indirectly, size acceptance. I believe I might have been more sexually confident as a youth had I known all this. And I certainly would have been less frustrated (I was pretty much *always* frustrated!) and confused. It didn't help when my first GF derided my preference as weird and yucky. But again, the internet helps you to put such statements into context. 

So I guess I think that, when "porn" deals with marginalized sexualities, it can have a very different meaning and effect - perhaps a much healthier effect - than the mainstream version. This may, I'd suggest, especially true of the sort of "lite" stuff I consume, which emphasizes voluntariness and self-presentation by the models. But I'd be curious what other folks think.


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## Blockierer (Apr 12, 2014)

FatManRocks said:


> ... All I know is for a shy kid who grew up believing his desires were worse than deviant, fat porn was a fucking revelation. And thank God for it.


I agree.  



superodalisque said:


> fat porn is for fat people and the people who *ALREADY* like fat people. ....


How true. I was already sexually attracted to fat women before I watched my first fat porn video.


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## ConnieLynn (Apr 12, 2014)

Fat porn does not contribute positively to the Size Acceptance movement. Seriously, no matter how you wrap it, it's porn. Would anyone be making a link between gay porn and LGBT rights?

Fat porn may contribute to self acceptance for admirers, if "others like it too, so I'm OK" works as validation for you. Fat porn for models is a job. Models may follow some path to fat self acceptance on their way to being models (along with enjoying the sexual buzz of new to them admiration), but porn for $ is a job. It's not being done for the cause of Size Acceptance 

Unfortunately, folks finding Dims as their first online fat is OK experience wander into this space where fat porn appears to be served with a side of Size Acceptance. It's a confusing bundle that leads people to think the two are connected. Come for the fat porn and sexuality, stay for the Size Acceptance discussion?


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## superodalisque (Apr 12, 2014)

Wild Zero said:


> Getting naked and begging dudes for attention was pretty much the word salad vomiting troll's primary function from what I recall of the MySpace days of yore. It does make this discussion a little funny.
> 
> Personally I find nothing wrong with what anyone chooses to do with their bodies whether it's artistic nudity, boudoir photography, pin-up photos or hardcore as long as all the participants are empowered. Is porn part of SA? I'd venture that the majority isn't, but as there is feminist porn so too can there be porn produced by fat people that doesn't hold fat bodies up for shaming and ridicule. It's more a product of SA, that someone would feel empowered to produce body positive erotica, than a cause of.



sometimes it' s a real problem when a fat woman actually does like her body and is not up for sale in order to reinforce that self love is real. we are supposed to have to need help for that. our self acceptance is supposed to be hinged on our fuckability and the minds of others. no matter that my page had as many if not more women members as men and that i was trying to get women to take and post pictures of themselves just for themselves because they were beautiful. i even posted a thread here trying to get women to start posting their pictures again. what happened? the usual disrespect as above. whenever we don't agree with being treated in a misogynistic way, compared, pitted against one another, being told one is less desirable than the other, making ourselves into a fat joke embodied or stuffing food down our throats until we become immobile or sick your photos were thrown up in your face as if nudity or partial nudity is somehow wrong or hypocritical by the same who are hungrily looking. it doesn't even matter if you are an artist or an artists model and had run body image clinics for women as i do/have. so a lot of women left pictorially and never came back. not to mention all of the women here who have had their pictures stolen by members and posted in inappropriate places.

honestly our photos were a love letter to anyone male or female who actually supported fat folk but it was read out in public, thrown up in our faces as though we were the stupid ones just because we refuse to be controlled and manipulated. that is porn brain at work. _ however we deal with our own bodies is suddenly unacceptable if our entire existence doesn't come on your personal terms._ people talk out of both sides of their mouths about SA but it's what they do rather than what they say that you have to watch. some lovely words above but all of the fat attacks aimed at BHMs and BBWs who don't think they way you think they should think cancels all of that out. i'm not begging anyone to like my body. i don't have to. they already do and always have. i've always known that. it's kinda crazy that someone outside of us is trying to tell me and others how to be the fat me--as though that opinion really matters.


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## superodalisque (Apr 12, 2014)

choudhury said:


> To get back onto the interesting subject. I'm looking at it strictly from the standpoint of an FA, though.
> 
> Part of it depends on what "porn" means. I actually don't like traditional porn (BBW or otherwise) involving explicit sex acts. It does nothing at all for me. I don't even need full nudity. What does do it for me is pictures and videos of BBWs. Clothes are fine. And what especially does it, personally speaking, is eating videos. Not videos of forced feeding, but of a big woman stuffing herself.
> 
> ...



i think there are a lot of men who just want pictures of fat women looking beautiful. they are starved for that. they only want the same experiences of beauty as other men get to have. there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.


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## furious styles (Apr 13, 2014)

my knee jerk reaction to reading the thread title was that these things have almost nothing whatsoever to do with each other. in fact i was probably just going to gloss over it or post a one liner about non-sequiturs. that's still essentially how i feel about it but some further thought made me decide to crawl out from under my rock and offer up some perspective.

i've been around these forums for a long time now and have seen similar topics become arguments that go around in circles to no end. once i asserted that there was simply no way for a place like this to function as both a size acceptance site and a fetish exploration/soft core porn site. the dichotomy created by these completely different things has often created a lot of tension. few people beginning their journey into body positive acceptance want to read about someone's deepest darkest feeding to immobility / death / etc fantasies. not that i'm trying to lob judgments at anyone's personal kinks; fantasies are just that and i'll defend anyone's right to have them and share them in the right environment. it's just that putting all of these disparate concepts into the "all things fat related" gumbo that is dimensions can make people on either side of the spectrum uncomfortable. if you come to this place looking to get your rocks off then maybe you don't want to be lectured on the importance of size acceptance and how objectification is "wrong," which I feel is understandable. embracing size acceptance is a personal decision that people have to come to on their own just like not being racist, sexist, or prejudiced in any variety of ways. we can hardly expect people to become supporters of the SA movement simply because they have a preference or fetish for fat. 

now, having said that i do believe that trying to understand yourself (and your sexuality) can lead to more personal development. maybe not from just indulging your most basal desires. maybe not just in a simple straight line, or in ways we can clearly define and label. maybe for most it doesn't even happen at all, but for me it has. if nothing else finding support and camaraderie in having these kinds of bodies, preferences, fetishes, or whatever it was that drew you here, is almost always beneficial. this website plays a key role in that sense.

personally i have been fat on and off my whole life, and also identify as an FA though I think putting little labels on anything and everything is reductive. i found this site at a young age on a quest for, you guessed it, porn. since then i've spent ten plus years (remember text only dims?) learning about size acceptance and trying to understand more about life in general. participation in discussions here and with people i've actually met through the site have no doubt enriched my understanding of SA, but i never would have traveled down that same path had i not come to this place on an adolescent treasure hunt for pictures of fat girls. food for thought i guess.



oh and just an aside; i think it's totally unfair to speculate on the mental health / self esteem of models, or to judge them as if they're doing something perverse. you can assess how pornography as a whole affects the collective unconscious without calling individuals into question. it's their bodies, it's their decisions. entirely.


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## Yakatori (Apr 13, 2014)

furious styles said:


> "_...no way for a place like this to function as both a size acceptance site and a fetish exploration/soft core porn site. the dichotomy created by these completely different things has often created a lot of tension. *few people beginning their journey into body positive acceptance want to read about someone's deepest darkest feeding to immobility / death / etc fantasies.*...putting all of these disparate concepts into the "all things fat related" gumbo that is dimensions can make people on either side of the spectrum *uncomfortable.* if you come to this place looking to get your rocks off then maybe you don't want to be lectured on the importance of size acceptance and how objectification is "wrong,"...embracing size acceptance is a personal decision that people have to come to on their own just like not being racist, sexist, or prejudiced in any variety of ways. we can hardly expect people to become supporters of the SA movement simply because they have a preference or fetish for fat.
> ****​....*maybe not just in a simple straight line, or in ways we can clearly define and label.* maybe for most it doesn't even happen at all,* but for me it has.* if nothing else finding support and camaraderie in having these kinds of bodies, preferences, fetishes, or whatever it was that drew you here, is almost always beneficial. this website plays a key role in that sense.....i never would have traveled down that same path had i not come to this place...for pictures of fat girls...._"


Comfort IS sometimes important. But not always in the way we want for it to be. Sometimes, just the right amount of discomfort can be a catalyst for change or development.

What about the idea of Dimensions...it's conglomeration of various and sometimes hostile constituencies...being like the chapters of an Outlaw motorcycle gang? In that type of model, can't some measure of support just come in the form of nihilistic antipathy?


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## JulianW (Apr 13, 2014)

Extinctor100 said:


> (Do the paysites like Bigcuties.com count as "porn"? Despite there being partial-to-full nudity, there isn't any *sexual* content... Just asking for the sake of clarity and to help you out better.)
> 
> As a disclaimer, I don't watch porn overall. Seeing people have sex and I'm not one of them, doesn't really do anything for me.
> 
> ...



I didn't set a definition or parameters on what constituted porn, but that is an important thing to consider! The instant gratification it offers seems like it could definitely warp perception to some extent. I'll also look into that study you mentioned. Thanks for your help!


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## JulianW (Apr 13, 2014)

Dromond said:


> Porn is for getting your rocks off. It's not empowering, uplifting, nor promoting size acceptance. It has no place at the size acceptance table.
> 
> I'm not knocking porn, that would be hypocritical. It's just not a size acceptance thing. It's a hormonal thing.
> 
> Edit: I just realized I didn't fully address the question. Pornography had zero influence on my liking big women, as well as having no affect on my comfort level. I never had discomfort with my preference. I decided I liked large ladies, and I started dating them. That's all there was to it.



I know that a lot of FA's have had difficult times getting comfortable with their preference at first; what do you think was the reason you were comfortable with it from the start? Was your family very fat accepting, or did you just not absorb the fat-phobic messages that society puts out?


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## JulianW (Apr 13, 2014)

CastingPearls said:


> I agree with both Tina and Dromond.
> 
> It's not the same as fat acceptance or size acceptance and hasn't affected my preferences or how I perceive myself or identify as a fat woman.
> 
> Also, I disagree that fat porn isn't as violent or abusive as any other porn. I've seen some really violent and abusive fat porn, and the same with thin porn. I don't see a lot of great fat porn, and next to zero fat erotica, and I'm not referring to literature or pics, but film. For the most part, if you're looking for anything at all, you're going to find it in all its incarnations but some is stupid-easier to find than another.



The assertion I made that fat porn wasn't as violent as most was shortsighted to say the least, I just didn't have any personal experience with it.


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## JulianW (Apr 13, 2014)

Tina said:


> I would think it would. Back when fat women in porn were just a joke, or didn't exist much at all, there was little validation of a fat woman's sexuality within that realm, or of the preference for the man who found her attractive above all others.
> 
> 
> It certainly does, if you look around enough to find it. Also, some would consider feeding against one's will to be violent.
> ...



I agree that force feeding is definitely violent, something I wasn't considering when writing that assertion. Thanks for your help!


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## JulianW (Apr 13, 2014)

ConnieLynn said:


> Unfortunately, folks finding Dims as their first online fat is OK experience wander into this space where fat porn appears to be served with a side of Size Acceptance. It's a confusing bundle that leads people to think the two are connected. Come for the fat porn and sexuality, stay for the Size Acceptance discussion?



This explains what led me to that question. Wasn't trying to say that porn and SA should be connected, but in terms of this web community they definitely seem to be intertwined. I just wanted to know peoples' attitude on it and how it might influence a fat admirer's comfort level with his/her preference.


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## Yakatori (Apr 13, 2014)

In bumping this thread. And dispensing with the obligatory "_you... must learn to multi-quote_" admonishment. 

*[/Worf Face-Palm*]*​
Moving on...


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## bigmac (Apr 13, 2014)

JulianW said:


> This explains what led me to that question. Wasn't trying to say that porn and SA should be connected, *but in terms of this web community they definitely seem to be intertwined.* I just wanted to know peoples' attitude on it and how it might influence a fat admirer's comfort level with his/her preference.



Yes, at any given time the BBW paysite forum usually has twice the traffic of all the other forums combined.


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## Dromond (Apr 13, 2014)

JulianW said:


> I know that a lot of FA's have had difficult times getting comfortable with their preference at first; what do you think was the reason you were comfortable with it from the start? *Was your family very fat accepting, or did you just not absorb the fat-phobic messages that society puts out?*



Some of each. My mom was big, but she wasn't happy with her size. She tried to get me to diet, which only made me larger. Dad was very much accepting, and he liked mom's size. My acceptance of my own size was a complicated matter, mostly due to mom's projected self-loathing. She never projected that onto any of my girlfriends, thankfully. My rejection of her bias went along with my rejection of society's bias as a whole in my path to self-acceptance.


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## choudhury (Apr 13, 2014)

superodalisque said:


> i think there are a lot of men who just want pictures of fat women looking beautiful. they are starved for that. they only want the same experiences of beauty as other men get to have. there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.



What a simple truth this is. While there is certainly no shortage of BBWs out there in the general public, FAs are trapped in a desert when it comes to mass media images of women. It must be a very different experience growing up in a world where women that you find very attractive are constantly featured in films, TV, magazines, etc., as opposed to being an FA, where apart from "real life" there are practically ZERO women shown that reflect your own preference for beauty. Remember in Mad Men when Betty Draper gained weight? Even though it was only a fat suit, it was a startling moment for me, because it was the first time when I really realized what a beautiful woman that actress is. Before, I knew with my brain that she was yet another "attractive" actress in some abstract way. But at that moment I realized it viscerally. And that made me really start to think about how detached I am from the everyday assumptions, and how FAs live in a weird and frustrating universe. 

Add to that the fact that attractive BBWs are probably much more likely than thin women to hide their bodies under baggy clothing and otherwise suffer from low self-esteem such that they don't present themselves as sexually desirable, and even "real life" is disproportionately frustrating for FAs relative to "regular" guys. To this day, when I see a beautiful overweight woman who really dresses well and really presents herself as desirable, it just knocks my socks off - partly because it's all too rare. (And I'm not talking here about mini skirts and stilettos; I mean really looking sharp, stylish, and confident).

If only we all realized, much younger, that preferences differ, and that no matter who you are, there are people who want what you've got...the world would be such a happier place all around. I'm still not clear from this thread whether folks around here think BBW porn can or does contribute to this realization. But I suspect that is can, and probably does.


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## superodalisque (Apr 13, 2014)

choudhury said:


> What a simple truth this is. While there is certainly no shortage of BBWs out there in the general public, FAs are trapped in a desert when it comes to mass media images of women. It must be a very different experience growing up in a world where women that you find very attractive are constantly featured in films, TV, magazines, etc., as opposed to being an FA, where apart from "real life" there are practically ZERO women shown that reflect your own preference for beauty. Remember in Mad Men when Betty Draper gained weight? Even though it was only a fat suit, it was a startling moment for me, because it was the first time when I really realized what a beautiful woman that actress is. Before, I knew with my brain that she was yet another "attractive" actress in some abstract way. But at that moment I realized it viscerally. And that made me really start to think about how detached I am from the everyday assumptions, and how FAs live in a weird and frustrating universe.
> 
> Add to that the fact that attractive BBWs are probably much more likely than thin women to hide their bodies under baggy clothing and otherwise suffer from low self-esteem such that they don't present themselves as sexually desirable, and even "real life" is disproportionately frustrating for FAs relative to "regular" guys. To this day, when I see a beautiful overweight woman who really dresses well and really presents herself as desirable, it just knocks my socks off - partly because it's all too rare. (And I'm not talking here about mini skirts and stilettos; I mean really looking sharp, stylish, and confident).
> 
> If only we all realized, much younger, that preferences differ, and that no matter who you are, there are people who want what you've got...the world would be such a happier place all around. I'm still not clear from this thread whether folks around here think BBW porn can or does contribute to this realization. But I suspect that is can, and probably does.



i think in the beginning it can open women's eyes to a possibility and open guys eyes to the fact that they aren't alone, but since most BBW porn panders heavily to fetishists the bloom goes of the rose very quickly. fetish implies the person cannot help himself or that he is compelled by things beyond his control to find someone attractive that others would not. in that sense i don't think it is helpful long term to the confidence of fat women or to their admirers because it reinforces abnormality too much. but if it were truly aimed at beauty, which no porn is really, it would be great. regular sized people have a continuum. they have things available that are beauty oriented that are not porn but that is sorely missing in the fat community.

for fat women our media is generally that you are a victim and everybody finds you unattractive or that you are a specialty item/circus freak that only a few find attractive. there isn't much around that says hey, she is beautiful period. we're still doing the beautiful for a fat girl thing. so what BBW porn actually ends up doing is going right along with the anti fat stereotypes some say it gets rid of. even regular porn is a freak fest anyway now because it's only the extremes that sell. it's so easy and cheap for people to make and trade their own pix videos etc... so what's left is a lot of stuff average people won't do themselves with their SOs but might like to pay to watch. i'll pay you to do it just seems like a dare that often includes fat folk and food. 

but outside of all of that i can't see how somebody wanting to sleep with us will help at all anyway. after all average sized women are supposed to be attractive and they are still don't have pay parody, are left destitute with their children have a very hard time getting to the CEO level and are abuse victims in high numbers. so it didn't work for them. what makes anyone think it will work for us? the only thing that really works when it comes to prejudice is legal and economic power.

but mainly i think SA is just another excuse to get fat women to take their clothes off for guys who just want to see. it's always guys who are pushing for women of all sizes to be naked and attaching it to our political rights somehow. women have been getting naked for long time and it has gotten them nothing but more claims of slut and desperate just like what was aimed at me previously. overall i think it is more about the sexual frustration for guys who are attracted to fat women than it is about any kind of politics which is exemplified by the sames general lack of participation in political activities.


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## superodalisque (Apr 13, 2014)

a friend just sent this to me and i think it was synchronicity : 

View attachment 1511236_10152291074615817_3347672431782790887_n.jpg


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## Yakatori (Apr 13, 2014)

The tone of it just strikes me as a bit....strident. And, frankly, I think there are some people who realize the distinction all too well. But, nonetheless, want to be desired anyway?


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## superodalisque (Apr 13, 2014)

Yakatori said:


> The tone of it just strikes me as a bit....strident. And, frankly, I think there are some people who realize the distinction all too well. But, nonetheless, want to be desired anyway?



hmmm i didn't read that as the two being mutually exclusive. and actually i'm not so sure that everyone is absolutely aware deep down that the two are not the same particularly people who are pushing desire as a solution for fat prejudice on this thread. we can all confuse things sometimes. it may be strident but it's nice to have words with force and passion behind a thought at times.


PS: in one of my previous posts i said...
but mainly i think SA is just another excuse to get fat women to take their clothes off for guys who just want to see.

but i should have said...

but mainly i think porn that references SA is just another excuse to get fat women to take their clothes off for guys who just want to see.


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## choudhury (Apr 14, 2014)

superodalisque said:


> i think in the beginning it can open women's eyes to a possibility and open guys eyes to the fact that they aren't alone, but since most BBW porn panders heavily to fetishists the bloom goes of the rose very quickly. fetish implies the person cannot help himself or that he is compelled by things beyond his control to find someone attractive that others would not. in that sense i don't think it is helpful long term to the confidence of fat women or to their admirers because it reinforces abnormality too much. but if it were truly aimed at beauty, which no porn is really, it would be great. regular sized people have a continuum. they have things available that are beauty oriented that are not porn but that is sorely missing in the fat community.
> 
> for fat women our media is generally that you are a victim and everybody finds you unattractive or that you are a specialty item/circus freak that only a few find attractive. there isn't much around that says hey, she is beautiful period. we're still doing the beautiful for a fat girl thing. so what BBW porn actually ends up doing is going right along with the anti fat stereotypes some say it gets rid of. even regular porn is a freak fest anyway now because it's only the extremes that sell. it's so easy and cheap for people to make and trade their own pix videos etc... so what's left is a lot of stuff average people won't do themselves with their SOs but might like to pay to watch. i'll pay you to do it just seems like a dare that often includes fat folk and food.
> 
> ...



You are certainly right that erotic or pornographic imagery won't help correct the imbalance of power between the genders (whether it makes it worse is another story). Still, by allowing FAs to come to grips with their preference there may be an _indirect_ correlation with size acceptance inasmuch as BBW porn may offer a bridge to the wider FA/BBW communities. But also, you seem to be defining "porn" here as speciality hard-core stuff that is arguably degrading by its very nature. My question is, what about "softer"-core sites that offer neither full nudity nor anything sexually explicit in mainstream terms, but do offer models in various stages of undress, loving photos showing lots of belly, thigh, etc., along with eating vids or pics? Because sites like that give me everything I want in terms of erotica. Is there a meaningful difference between such sites and the kind of porn you have in mind, in terms of their ability to "bridge" toward size acceptance? Or are they also "freak fests?"

EDIT: that motto about desire vs value is a good one. Too many women, especially, confuse the two. However, we all want to be desired and desire-able - certainly this is PART of being "valued" by partners. Erotic BBW imagery conveys the message that BBWs are desirable and that, I tend to maintain, is surely a good thing.


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## bigmac (Apr 14, 2014)

superodalisque said:


> ...
> 
> but mainly i think SA is just another excuse to get fat women to take their clothes off for guys who just want to see.* it's always guys* who are pushing for women of all sizes to be naked and attaching it to our political rights somehow. women have been getting naked for long time and it has gotten them nothing but more claims of slut and desperate just like what was aimed at me previously. overall i think it is more about the sexual frustration for guys who are attracted to fat women than it is about any kind of politics which is exemplified by the sames general lack of participation in political activities.



Those mean awful guys always trying to defile sweet innocent women.


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## superodalisque (Apr 15, 2014)

choudhury,

so by your reasoning if white men who wanted to have sex with black women could somehow use interracial porn to come to grips with their attraction it would have somehow have led to the civil rights of black people in this country?

problems:

coming to grips with their attraction to black/fat women puts a negative assumption about black/fat women on black/fat women that they do not deserve no matter the social reality.

leaves black/fat men and their differing social reality out the argument altogether.

assumes that interaction between the two groups should be or is always mediated by porn. 

all private porn doesn't necessarily lead to a public expression of an attraction at all. the thing about porn is that it can actually allow someone to keep their desires secret indefinitely if there is social pressure.

historically i don't think there has ever been a time that porn has actually liberated anyone from anything. that would be a first. if you can think of a time, please let me know. i would find that very interesting.

SA is concerned with the condition and self esteem of fat children in our society. porn mentality is inappropriate for children. 

also even trying to define porn at all is pointing out the exact problem i have with the whole issue. arguments about what porn is or is not side tracks the core of fat rights. you have as many opinions about porn as you do about sex. fat folks and the people who are attracted to them don't have a monolithic sexuality. sexual cliches are one of the things that have seriously handicapped SA. people spend a lot of time arguing over and separating themselves based on sexuality and not enough time concentrating on the thing they can all agree on--that fat prejudice is wrong. so it doesn't really matter what you or i personally think of porn in terms of SA. what matters is what we both know we think about fat prejudice. working together like that will get a whole lot more accomplished that arguing over our personal opinions about porn. porn just muddies the water where we need clarity.


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## CleverBomb (Apr 15, 2014)

Not to mention that throughout history, quite a few white men have treated black women as sexual objects _in real life_ without any consideration for their civil rights -- including, notably, famous politicians both at the time of this nation's founding and after the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s.


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## choudhury (Apr 15, 2014)

superodalisque said:


> choudhury,
> 
> so by your reasoning if white men who wanted to have sex with black women could somehow use interracial porn to come to grips with their attraction it would have somehow have led to the civil rights of black people in this country?
> 
> ...



But most of these points amount to the claim that BBW porn is in no way a _sufficient_ condition for size acceptance. I totally agree with that. My suggestion was merely that at least some (less extreme and degrading) forms of BBW erotica might play a small facilitating role. 

Now, your last point about sidetracking is interesting. And perhaps the issue here is that _sexuality itself _is only one small part of the wider SA picture. Because the most common, straightforward way in which FAs intersect with "size acceptance" is through their sexual desire for BBWs, you must be quite right that this whole preoccupation skews discussion massively toward the erotic - this being what FAs are most likely to bring to the table, as it were. In a way this transmutes into a much wider question about the relationship between FAs and size acceptance as a whole (not unlike the whole discussion about the relationship of men to feminism). But setting those wider issues aside, the choices immediately before us seem to be either (a) denying that BBW erotica can have any connection to size acceptance or (b) accepting the possibility of some modestly useful intersections - e.g., the idea that the erotica of Dimensions's "paysite" board could lead the FA to the wider discussion forums on this site and thereby to size acceptance as a movement. Not all will go from the former to the latter, but if some do, that's a gain for size acceptance, surely.


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## superodalisque (Apr 15, 2014)

choudhury said:


> But most of these points amount to the claim that BBW porn is in no way a _sufficient_ condition for size acceptance. I totally agree with that. My suggestion was merely that at least some (less extreme and degrading) forms of BBW erotica might play a small facilitating role.
> 
> Now, your last point about sidetracking is interesting. And perhaps the issue here is that _sexuality itself _is only one small part of the wider SA picture. Because the most common, straightforward way in which FAs intersect with "size acceptance" is through their sexual desire for BBWs, you must be quite right that this whole preoccupation skews discussion massively toward the erotic - this being what FAs are most likely to bring to the table, as it were. In a way this transmutes into a much wider question about the relationship between FAs and size acceptance as a whole (not unlike the whole discussion about the relationship of men to feminism). But setting those wider issues aside, the choices immediately before us seem to be either (a) denying that BBW erotica can have any connection to size acceptance or (b) accepting the possibility of some modestly useful intersections - e.g., the idea that the erotica of Dimensions's "paysite" board could lead the FA to the wider discussion forums on this site and thereby to size acceptance as a movement. Not all will go from the former to the latter, but if some do, that's a gain for size acceptance, surely.



unless sexual interest is a part of the discussion or a chance to have sex isn't a part of the activity many won't participate anyway. any don't participate even when those elements are available. people who are purely politically SA and have political events actions and activities can tell you that sexual interest often does not translate into action or participation. people who are politically conscious ill participate with or without prn. porn does not change a man's character. either he is politically aware and active or he is not.


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## Jooplef (Apr 18, 2014)

JulianW said:


> I know for me in middle school, finding sites like Big Cuties helped me feel less awkward about my preference. But also led to the expectation that fat women are all confident with their body (which I discovered wasnt the case years later).
> 
> Although this kind of stuff seems to be marketed towards men, if any women have any input it would be welcome. I think these questions are relevant to the community and apologize if it's been asked before or if this is the wrong thread for it.



Hello OP, interesting that you started this thread with a pro and a con, and yet some of the people that replied seem to be insisting that one or the other is not true (along with the usual internet technique of attempting to shut down dissenting opinions).

If memory serves, HeatherBBW gave some sort of speech/presentation on this subject at a NYC university a few years back. If you're looking for well-researched info and an expert in the field to quote you may want to PM her.


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## bigmiketom (Mar 15, 2015)

This could have been a much better thread if less people where negative toward porn/sexuality.


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## superodalisque (Mar 15, 2015)

bigmiketom said:


> This could have been a much better thread if less people where negative toward porn/sexuality.


 

association with porn would be less negative politically if porn weren't already perceived as a cultural negative. so why should fat people hitch their political and social star so intently to something else that is already marginalized stigmatized and even magnifies erroneous fat stereotypes about who we are and not something more centralized like the music industry, the film industry and politics. it's not negative toward porn to point out the impracticality in the association. and it certainly isn't anti sex because porn is not real sex anyway. people who think it is should re-evaluate or have more real experiences so that they can understand the differences. and what fat people actually do sexually has no place in a public political debate. people don't have those kinds of right to judge us--which is an internal problem that needs to be dealt with by people who do feel that the general public has a right to critique their right to sexuality as a fat person. 

it's all well and good to be pro porn, but the need to be pro porn at all signifies a weakness in the model that fat political ends do not need to attach to. there is no need to be pro music, pro film or pro politics because those are not marginalized activities that fat children can't even legally have access to at all. and they need us to be visible to them most of all.


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## wrestlingguy (Mar 15, 2015)

I'd still be willing to sit and listen if someone can rationally explain to me the connection between what makes you horny and a social rights movement.

A little over 4 years ago, I wrote a blog called the "BBW=Porn Connection". I don't believe much has changed over the years. I have written other blogs on the same topic, but this one truly covers how I perceive it.



> Go to Google and type in the term BBW and hit search. Of the first 20 links listed, 7 of them are for dating/romance sites, 2 are for lingerie, 1 is for the NJ BBW Bash (props to us for promoting), and the rest are all links to porn sites, many involving weight gain.
> 
> 
> So, someone new to the scene who looks up BBW, assuming they are impressionable, sees that:
> ...


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## superodalisque (Mar 15, 2015)

wrestlingguy said:


> I'd still be willing to sit and listen if someone can rationally explain to me the connection between what makes you horny and a social rights movement.
> 
> A little over 4 years ago, I wrote a blog called the "BBW=Porn Connection". I don't believe much has changed over the years. I have written other blogs on the same topic, but this one truly covers how I perceive it.


 

I love the term you used of size prostitution. I think it is self explanatory. and also size exploitation would be a good term to explore. because often pornography and the admiration pipeline is used as a false escape to the kind of social stigma fat women face. if you let me see you in your big panties you will somehow be free. well no you won't. 

it's just another way to encourage sexually attractive women who are unsure to disrobe. and that model is not different than it is in the average sized community and it is the exact same mechanism often used to get averaged sized women to do porn. no matter how much wood you can give a guy the rest of society won't somehow suddenly like you and open it's doors. it didn't work like that for the skinny girl who used to be gawky and it won't work for the fat girl no matter how attractive they are to men. because you are the same person with the same insecurities only now you have a porn monkey on your back to deal with out in society.


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## Tracyarts (Mar 15, 2015)

wrestlingguy said:


> I'd still be willing to sit and listen if someone can rationally explain to me the connection between what makes you horny and a social rights movement.



This is a question I brought up within my local fat acceptance community when I started having serious second thoughts about whether or not it was still a healthy and positive influence in my life, and something I wanted to continue to publicly link my name to. 

My experience was that porn was not only holding the movement back, but dragging it down. My city's NAAFA chapter meetings were held in a public library conference room, and were publicized to the general public, and open to all. One thing I always had a big problem with was the fact that when the chairperson of the chapter would set up for the meeting, they would put a pile of literature on the conference table, including fat-positive books, publications, fliers, catalogs for clothing, and magazines that sexualized fat female bodies. I hesitate to call them porn because they never showed genitals or sex acts, just veiled nudity, lingerie, bikinis, and sexy costumes. But they were highly sexualized and very obviously published to be the fat body version of a girly magazine. These erotic publications were very intimidating and off putting to some people and not appropriate for children, IMO. 

We did lose prospective members who did not want to be associated with that kind of thing. We lost the potential to network with churches, a university, and other "rights" movements because of that kind of thing. 

Whenever I would question the appropriateness of using sexualized images of fat women as part of the group's public message about who we were and what we wanted to accomplish, I was hand-slapped and the same few justifications were given: 

1.) Our society is a sexualized society, in order for fat to have a place in "the norm", fat must be openly sexualized as well. Sexualized images of women are everywhere, but fat women are underrepresented and that is a bad thing that we need to correct. 

2.) A self-accepting fat woman should embrace the beauty of her body and not be ashamed to flaunt it. Being proud of your body and showing it off not only proves that you love yourself but is an activism act in and of itself. 

3.) Fat people are often not seen as sexual beings, and the display of these images is empowering and educates the public that we are sexual beings. 

I can see where they came up with these points but it still did nothing to address the fact that these images were often intimidating and off putting to many prospective members. And not appropriate to display at meetings which were open to people of all ages. Saving them for adult-only events like bashes and dances would have been completely appropriate. I was never anti fat erotica, just pro proper time and place.


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## superodalisque (Mar 15, 2015)

Tracyarts said:


> This is a question I brought up within my local fat acceptance community when I started having serious second thoughts about whether or not it was still a healthy and positive influence in my life, and something I wanted to continue to publicly link my name to.
> 
> My experience was that porn was not only holding the movement back, but dragging it down. My city's NAAFA chapter meetings were held in a public library conference room, and were publicized to the general public, and open to all. One thing I always had a big problem with was the fact that when the chairperson of the chapter would set up for the meeting, they would put a pile of literature on the conference table, including fat-positive books, publications, fliers, catalogs for clothing, and magazines that sexualized fat female bodies. I hesitate to call them porn because they never showed genitals or sex acts, just veiled nudity, lingerie, bikinis, and sexy costumes. But they were highly sexualized and very obviously published to be the fat body version of a girly magazine. These erotic publications were very intimidating and off putting to some people and not appropriate for children, IMO.
> 
> ...


 

exactly. which is also another reason to separate it. because some people have gotten porn confused with fat people as a whole. fat people aren't mainly porn we are mainly people. we don't walk around posing in our panties all day. and we do exist even where porn or sex aren't a part of the conversation at all --which is most of life. but maybe that isn't true for the people fighting the separation. that world probably is the only place we actually are supposed to exist for them. not in the workplace, not in business, not in gov't. sometimes I feel that only being in groups where porn and fat politics are intertwined is a part of why the movement is ineffectual, because it is very unrealistic about how the rest of the world is functioning. 

I find myself asking if the people against this separation -- at least sometimes even want equality for fat people. how are they profiting from the partnering? and often I think it's away to exclude people they don't want to engage in dialog with or share power with. why are they so averse to possible allies? any other group I have belonged to has been happy to partner with churches hospitals veterans clubs etc... but not us. all we tend to want are these porn centered perspectives that our children families and other people who actually need to be educated need to be exposed to.

we say we want the world to change but we don't want ever want to invite it in or engage it. so how is that supposed to ever happen ? and who really does think that the entire world should be brought into have an opinion on their personal sex life? feeling sexual and beautiful starts ends and begins with us personally and not as a commodity for the general public to approve of or that is up for sale to them.


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## superodalisque (Mar 15, 2015)

it's like saying the answer to equal pay for equal work for women is porn. it doesn't make any sense unless you are just trying to find an excuse to exploit someone for sex.

when people in the 70s claimed that porn would help feminist issues studies found the results were the exact opposite and those women were as likely if not more likely to be exploited.


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