# Fat in a Lilliputian world



## rainyday (Mar 22, 2007)

Do you ever have epiphany moments where you realize just how outsize you are compared to the rest of the world? I don't mean the everyday experiences of coping with armless chairs and such, but more a sudden revelation of how big you actually appear to those around you?

Although I'm always aware of my fat, much of the time I seem to forget just how much larger I am than an average person, and I think hanging around Dim exacerbates that. Then suddenly something will make me realize just how different I am and how I must appear to strangers. Might be seeing a photo of myself next to a "normal" size friend, or looking closely at "normal people" clothes and realizing my thigh might not even fit in a shirt a thin person would wear around their torso. 

Tonight it was a picture of me sitting in a kitchen chair, shot from the back. It was a photo I took about a month ago and never got around to uploading until today. My butt hangs over a good 6-8 inches on either side of the seat and the padding on my rump makes me sit so high that my waist shows _above _the back of the chair. I never knew I looked that...substantial. That wide. It actually makes me wonder why people don't stare at me in public more. I would stare simply because it's vastly different from the norm. I just find it strange how off my perceptions of my size can be until something like this gives me a clue.

What catches up you short and makes you realize just how large you are compared to others?


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## TallFatSue (Mar 22, 2007)

I'm always aware of my fat too, but usually I don't really think about just how much larger I am than an average person. But when I'm in a crowded store it usually feels like I'm try to maneuver my yacht-sized body through a sea of row-boats.


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## 1300 Class (Mar 22, 2007)

> It actually makes me wonder why people don't stare at me in public more. I would stare simply because it's vastly different from the norm. I just find it strange how off my perceptions of my size can be until something like this gives me a clue.


Yep, totally get the same thoughts.


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## BBW Betty (Mar 22, 2007)

Pictures do the same thing to me. I don't usually perceive myself as big as I am until I see myself in a photo with someone else. Always makes me do a double-take.


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## bigplaidpants (Mar 22, 2007)

I confess I had to look up the word "Lilliputian." :doh: 

<then, looking up, bigplaidpants realizes this is NOT one of Dim's 37 confessional boards.....embarrassed, he turns around and shleps his 6'1" 230lbs butt out the door....>


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## Ruffie (Mar 22, 2007)

Last night when I went to take a yoga class. Mirrors all around and I went whoa is that me? ANd of course then doing the poses and such with my fat ass up in the air and such was disconcering to say the least.


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 22, 2007)

I, too, had the delightful opportunity to view myself seated at my mother's kitchen table. It was the only photo taken of me that whole day and I looked just awful. I was seated in an odd position, my hair was askew, the front of my shirt had a partial rise in the front and I was focused elsewhere with a perplexed dumb expression on my face like I was in the midst of some action of surprise. Everyone else's photo was posed well and groups of people were smiling or in and embrace. I wasn't so much dismayed at the photo as I was at the idea that my parents only want to photograph me when I'm in the midst of doing something embarassing. Since I was an adolescent my dad has been on a personal crusade to deliberately make me feel bad abut myself. I've gotten used to it. My parents take photos all the time so on the rare occasions when my mom gets excited to shove a particular set of photographs at me I know that burried deep within the pile is at least one really bad picture of me that they are hoping I will see and I've never been disappointed. Since I now have my own digital camera I am able to take my own pictures. I've given the camera to other members of my family and they've taken pictures and they are perfectly fine. I'm seated with people or playing with the dog and I look like a natural part of the lanscape. Everyone looks great.

There are times I find I have a completely dysmorphic view of myself. Sometimes I look at pictures and I don't look that big at all, or at least not as big as I thought I was. Then I get someplace and see a picture that totally showcases my enormity. There's nothing flattering at all. These dueling images have taught me not to take any of it seriously. Everybody can have a bad photo taken, even celebrities can look a mess thanks to a zealous photographer who is there for the sole purpose of capturing them looking like skin and bones or with rolls overflowing. I do notice that big shirts, tunics, oversized things make me look ginormous while things that are closefitting are the ones I look best in.


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## NancyGirl74 (Mar 22, 2007)

Rainy, I ssooooo know what you are talking about. I feel like I think about my weight all the time but really I could go all day feeling like I'm "normal" sized. As if I can do anything an average weight person can do. I won't notice how my size makes me different until I have to go around a table because I can't squeeze through the space between chairs in a restaurant. Or when I have to make sure to park my car in a spot that allows me enough room to open my door so I can get out. It's little things like that more than people staring that remind me of my size. Just trying to use a bathroom stall or climbing stairs can be a challenge. So, I find ways to avoid those situations, like using the handicapped stall or going out of my way to find the elevator. Amazing what efforts I will take in order to not have my size and weight made so obvious...Obvious to myself, anyway.


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## jamie (Mar 22, 2007)

I have to ride the elevator everyday for work and there are a lot of times that I find myself feeling like a giant. I guess it is the enclosed small space coupled with the tension that elevators cause for some people. Sometimes I feel like I am towering over them and they are just waiting for me to snap the cables and end them to their deaths. Also...our office is right across from a plastic surgeon's office, so the traffic coming from there is also very petite and perky...I feel like a giant bog monster.


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## Tracyarts (Mar 22, 2007)

Yes, whenever I am around my female inlaws...

My mother in law, grandmother in law, and sister in law are all a foot shorter than me and probably weigh a third to a fourth of what I do. Whenever I am around the three of them I am the giantess in the land of tiny women. Somewhere there is a photo of me, MIL, Grandma in Law, SIL, and Grandma in Law's sister at an event together. It is ridiculously obvious who is not part of the same genetic stock. ROFL! I am towering over them and easily twice as wide as any of them.

Tracy


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## ashmamma84 (Mar 22, 2007)

Ruffie said:


> Last night when I went to take a yoga class. Mirrors all around and I went whoa is that me? ANd of course then doing the poses and such with my fat ass up in the air and such was disconcering to say the least.



I take yoga and there's another fattie in my class and we've sort of befriended each other. Anyhow, at first it was very weird for me to be in a room of size 6 (max) women who were all so dainty and here I come, bouncing in with a big smile on my face. I didn't notice my size until we were doing downward dogs and my wide behind was in the air making it hard for the thin women to see the instructor. 

Every morning I am somehow reminded - I take the El to work (it's Chicago's subway) and the seats are not big at all. Now, I'm not a supersized woman, however I am plus sized and it's just a very tight squeeze if someone tries to sit next to me as my rear takes up some of the other seat. So, I try to catch the single seats, but if not, then someone just ends up with an uncomfortable ride to work.


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## jamie (Mar 22, 2007)

Oh I had forgotten about the inlaws...I completely relate to your post. My boyfriend's mother and sisters are all these gorgeous and very tiny women. His one sister in probably my height, but probably only weighs a 100lbs or so. I am sure that when we are out together we make a very strange looking couple. I hope people aren't worried about her safety.





Tracyarts said:


> Yes, whenever I am around my female inlaws...
> 
> My mother in law, grandmother in law, and sister in law are all a foot shorter than me and probably weigh a third to a fourth of what I do. Whenever I am around the three of them I am the giantess in the land of tiny women. Somewhere there is a photo of me, MIL, Grandma in Law, SIL, and Grandma in Law's sister at an event together. It is ridiculously obvious who is not part of the same genetic stock. ROFL! I am towering over them and easily twice as wide as any of them.
> 
> Tracy


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## William (Mar 22, 2007)

Hi 

When I stop at the cleaners to pick up my shirts I am stunned on how wide they are when pressed flat. It is even worst if there is a high wind and they blow in the wind 

William





rainyday said:


> Do you ever have epiphany moments where you realize just how outsize you are compared to the rest of the world? I don't mean the everyday experiences of coping with armless chairs and such, but more a sudden revelation of how big you actually appear to those around you?
> 
> Although I'm always aware of my fat, much of the time I seem to forget just how much larger I am than an average person, and I think hanging around Dim exacerbates that. Then suddenly something will make me realize just how different I am and how I must appear to strangers. Might be seeing a photo of myself next to a "normal" size friend, or looking closely at "normal people" clothes and realizing my thigh might not even fit in a shirt a thin person would wear around their torso.
> 
> ...


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## Dr. Feelgood (Mar 22, 2007)

ashmamma84 said:


> Every morning I am somehow reminded - I take the El to work (it's Chicago's subway) and the seats are not big at all. Now, I'm not a supersized woman, however I am plus sized and it's just a very tight squeeze if someone tries to sit next to me as my rear takes up some of the other seat. So, I try to catch the single seats, but if not, then someone just ends up with an uncomfortable ride to work.



Oh, I think I could deal with the discomfort. As a penance, you understand.


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## Brenda (Mar 22, 2007)

I am keenly aware of my width when I am shopping for clothes at my favorite store. All the sales clerks are thin (at least in my skewed mind) and when they are folding up my purchases to wrap in tissue paper I feel a bit queasy. I almost want to say just throw it in a bag no need to fuss just to get out of there. Seeing my clothes unfurled against the backdrop of an average sized woman really brings to light just how huge I am.

Another occassion for recognizing my size is around John's family. They are all very thin and most of them are short. I am 6'0 and about as wide so in group photos I take about half the shot and the 5 or so of them huddle together on the other end. Yes, I am going to eat you!

Brenda


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## rainyday (Mar 22, 2007)

LOL, Brenda!

Jamie, my two lifelong friends from grade school are both about 5'3 and a size 4 and once in a while I'll wonder about the incongruous look we must present when we're out together.



bigplaidpants said:


> I confess I had to look up the word "Lilliputian."


 We're even then. I looked up "multivalent" after you used it yesterday. Yay for Dim plumping up big fat vocabularies. 




LillyBBBW said:


> There are times I find I have a completely dysmorphic view of myself.


Me too. I even had an eating disorders therapist tell me this when I was in therapy years ago. She commented on how unaware I seeemed of my size as I moved and asked if I knew how fast I actually walked or how light on my feet I was. (My answer was no.) It was something she said she noticed whenever we walked down the hall to her office together. One of the things we discussed is how having that lack of size perception has benefited me in some ways. I think if I realized how fat I am I might not have tried half the things I have.



> My parents take photos all the time so on the rare occasions when my mom gets excited to shove a particular set of photographs at me I know that burried deep within the pile is at least one really bad picture of me that they are hoping I will see and I've never been disappointed.


 You know, I never realized I could look good in photos until I started taking my own, for this same reason. Family photos always seem to show me at the worst possible angle, totally gobble-necked or something like that. I don't think it happens now, but in the past it has definitely been done on purpose by a family member trying to be "helpful."

The thing with the photo last night wasn't that I viewed it with judgement. Actually, visually it's interesting and it'd likely be pretty hot to an FA, which makes it easier to view things like that with a less critical eye. So there wasn't really shame in seeing it, just shock. And wonder that all this time that's what others have seen when they look at me and I had no clue.


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## ScreamingChicken (Mar 22, 2007)

When I started at my current job, I was a little uneasy about climbing on the the 8 foot ladders in the warehouse to get to the merchandise on the upper bays where we store furniture. I was 325 when I started and was terrified of working at those heights (the bigger they are, the harder they fall). When I have brought this up to some of the other guys at work, they have told me that I am pretty light on my feet and rather agile on the ladders especially for someone of my size. 

My dad's Miata. I hate riding in that thing sometimes. Between having to get on my hands and knees to get in it (I'm 6'2") and sitting all cockeyed in order to get in the seat(I'm more wide than deep, if that makes sense), I try to avoid it most of the time.


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## Brenda (Mar 22, 2007)

Rainy,

I think like you I have no true sense of my size. And that lack of awareness goes both ways as at times I have thought I was larger than I am. 

My sister and I have a game we play when we are public called "that's you". We carefully screen the crowd for the person who most resembles each others bodies and then screech "that's you". Sometimes I would think she was being "nice" and selecting a person who was much smaller than me. Then we got my niece into the game and she was agreeing with my sisters picks.

Also I have noticed that I will assume a large sized friend to be smaller than me or similiar sized. I am almost shocked when they mention there dress size or weight and in fact they are larger than me.

Brenda


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## bigplaidpants (Mar 22, 2007)

You know, thanks for this thread rainydog  This is a *really* interesting. I feel like I'm talking out of turn because I'm not that large compared to others on the Dim boards. Nevertheless, it is causing me to think about a) how I see myself, and b) what appears "normal" to me from the view of a 6'+ relatively proportionally-framed guy. I'm not a woman and don't claim to have the same experience many of you are talking about. Still, it's interesting to think about how we physically see ourselves.

I have always gotten the impression that women view bodies and bodily proportion much different than men. For example, a 6'+ woman would feel much "taller" than I feel at the same height. Or, a 250lb (and larger) woman would feel much "bigger" than I do at a similar weight. But, perhaps my impression (like so many) is really just wrong, a 1/2 truth, or self-fulfilling prophecy, so to speak. Perhaps, we all have a kind of dysmorphic (thanks, Lilly!) view of ourselves because, well, its ourselves. 

I know when I look in the mirror or at pictures of myself, I still feel like I'm supposed to see someone I know....but, I'm actually looking at someone I don't see very often. 



rainyday said:


> .... We're even then. I looked up "multivalent" after you used it yesterday. Yay for Dim plumping up big fat vocabularies.



LOL. You friggin make me smile.  

<in a bad German accent> Vee l-logophiles must zhang togezher!



> You know, I never realized I could look good in photos until I started taking my own, for this same reason. [See Lilly's post] Family photos always seem to show me at the worst possible angle, totally gobble-necked or something like that. I don't think it happens now, but in the past it has definitely been done on purpose by a family member trying to be "helpful."



This is going to sound terribly cheesy, perhaps even a bit infantile. But, I will say it anyway. 

Haven't you ever wished you could replace someone's negative impression of themselves with your feeling or impression of their appearance instead? My impression is that many people are often shocked at a view of ourselves (and yes, some pics _are _bad.) In some of those times, without getting all goofy or inappropriate, I've often wished I could share my feeling of appreciation, beauty, allure, or simple radiance I see in another person with them. I felt like an experiment like this was going on the "Love the double chin" thread. Most often in those most natural, even obscure (i.e. a goofy or seemingly unflattering poses), and plain inconspicuous personal moments that someone's unique look, radiance, facial or physical contours is exposed. Their simple beauty comes through. I think it's often hard to see this beauty, attraction, and allure in ourselves until someone else sees it first. 

Rainy....you kinda said it in your final comment:



> The thing with the photo last night wasn't that I viewed it with judgement. Actually, visually it's interesting and it'd likely be pretty hot to an FA, which makes it easier to view things like that with a less critical eye. So there wasn't really shame in seeing it, just shock. And wonder that all this time that's what others have seen when they look at me and I had no clue.



May we all get used to seeing ourselves with simple unasking adoration....as big or as small as we are or want to be.


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## Tina (Mar 22, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> I do notice that big shirts, tunics, oversized things make me look ginormous while things that are closefitting are the ones I look best in.



Same here, Lilly. Once I got over the feeling that I had to hide my stomach, I realized that those big shirts and the like actually made me look much larger. Now, it's not that I'm afraid to look larger, but I just plain look better with my regular blouses on, rather than tents.

Rainy, I had one of those moments when I saw this picture:






I mean, I've always known my hips were wide, but I never really saw myself from the back and I couldn't believe it. Eric thought I'd be upset about it, but I wasn't. It kind of fascinated me. Heh. So it wasn't an upsetting moment, but more a revelation. I think we get used to our bodies and what we see in the mirror, so that when we see ourselves at a different angle through a camera's lense, it can sometimes be surprising.


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## rainyday (Mar 22, 2007)

bigplaidpants said:


> Haven't you ever wished you could replace someone's negative impression of themselves with your feeling or impression of their appearance instead? My impression is that many people are often shocked at a view of ourselves (and yes, some pics _are _bad.) In some of those times, without getting all goofy or inappropriate, I've often wished I could share my feeling of appreciation, beauty, allure, or simple radiance I see in another person with them.


Yes, yes, yes! I make no claim to being good at it, but I would love to be able to take pictures of my fat friends that capture the beauty I see in them. I often sit in chat and look at the photos there to see how I would shoot people differently to bring out their best features. I think many women who think they are mousey would be amazed at how beautiful they really are.

This summer I have a few fat friends I'm hoping to make my guinea pigs and try this.


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## rainyday (Mar 22, 2007)

Tina said:


> I mean, I've always known my hips were wide, but I never really saw myself from the back and I couldn't believe it. Eric thought I'd be upset about it, but I wasn't. It kind of fascinated me.


I have a feeling the photographer (Eric) was fascinated as well. Having seen it in person, I can verify that your bum is a wonder of the natural world.


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## Santaclear (Mar 22, 2007)

Aesthetically I think it's really pleasing. 

(You all already know I think that way but it must be said!)


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## rainyday (Mar 22, 2007)

Let it hereby be known then that *Santaclear likes fat.

*So recorded this day, the 22nd of March.


**


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## Esme (Mar 22, 2007)

This is a really interesting thread, Rainy... enough to make me come back after a longish absence.  

For me, it seems to work both ways. There are times when I think I am smaller than I really am, and times when I feel that I'm quite possibly the largest person in the world. Ever. 

When I'm doing my daily activities, I generally think I'm smaller than I am since I'm fairly agile for a woman my size. I think the fact that I'm also quite short enhances this image in my mind.

Then there are the moments when reality comes a-knocking. For me it's moments like: going to a new doctor's office and stepping on the scale... having her give me "the look" when I try to convince her that I generally do eat fairly healthy andbalanced meals (which is entirely true). Or moments at work when a student will make a cutting comment (or an innocent one) that makes me well-aware of my size. Moments like that still hurt even though I'm nearing the end of my 30s! There are also moments when I walk past store windows or mirrors... and I see myself as others do, or I see a picture of myself... as others have mentioned... and I catch a glimpse of myself that I wasn't expecting. 

The thing that's really got me thinking now, though, is this: WHY don't I have a honest impression of my own image and size? WHY are the images I have of myself in my head so very out of synch? Why can't I reconcile them? It's funny... I never believe the people who tell me I'm beautiful or attractive, but I always seem to belive those who have negative comments. I think maybe it's time to stop doing that, and take a look at the real me, the good and the not-so-good.

Maybe it's time for me to really look at myself with a fresh pair of eyes.


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## Tina (Mar 22, 2007)

rainyday said:


> I have a feeling the photographer (Eric) was fascinated as well. Having seen it in person, I can verify that your bum is a wonder of the natural world.



Thank you, dear. And your own is pretty darned spectacular, I must add, having seen yours in person, too. 

Hmmm... people might think we've been naughty together...


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## crazygrad (Mar 22, 2007)

Another vote for feeling amazonian around the in-laws. Although my mother in law isn't very thin, she's short (about 5ft even) and I'm closing in on 5'8". My sister in law (even after a weight gain) is a rail and barely taller than her mom. So I feel like some kind of redwood around saplings. And isn't just that they're short and (fairly) thin. They also have no muscle to them. My mother in law complains when she has to lift a full half gallon of milk, and my sister in law- a gallon. I actually have a fair amount of muscle, especially in my back and legs, and when added to the height and the weight difference, I think I must like some kind of pale urukhai (from Lord of the Rings) next to them.

I think my mother in law could use one of my shoes as a boat in a flood emergency.


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## Punkin1024 (Mar 22, 2007)

Well, I'm not tall, but I am fat. I know I don't really feel fat until I try to squeeze through a turnstile or a seatbelt in a friend's car doesn't quite fit. I am also forever misjudging my size and bumping my arm or hip against the doorframes in our house. Also, it seems that people are always bumping into my chair at work, when I don't see them doing so with anyone elses chairs. And I really feel it in restaurants when my husband and friends can walk straight to our table, but I have to navigate around tight spots - that is very embarrassing for me. 

~Punkin


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## ripley (Mar 23, 2007)

Mostly it happens when I'm with thin people. I guess I'm so used to making accommodations for my size that it's only when I'm next to thin people that it really hits home that I'm "abnormal." The most common one is if I'm sitting next to people that are the same height standing, but sitting my butt fat makes me sit up about six inches taller than they are.


I think you're on to something about Dims. I saw this thing on Dateline or Primetime or one of those news magazine type shows, that was about how when you are in a group of like-minded people (with no counter-influence) behavior gets more and more extreme; yet, to the members of the group, the behavior seems rational and normal. I love having a safe place to be fat and talk about fat related stuff, but sometimes I wonder if the more extreme stuff here actually does a disservice in helping me get along in mainstream society.


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## bigplaidpants (Mar 23, 2007)

rainyday said:


> Let it hereby be known then that *Santaclear likes fat.
> 
> *So recorded this day, the 22nd of March.
> 
> ...



<eye brows and anticipation high, bigplaidpants waives his hands furiously over the crowd wanting to be included in the survey>


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## William (Mar 23, 2007)

Hi Ripley 

I agree with you about communities becoming too insular. I think that one of the reasons there are so many tiny "Fat Communities" on Yahoo Groups and Blogs is that the mainstream Fat People do not want to latch on to the larger groups on the fringe. 

There are so many Fat People online that have never visited a Dimensions, NAAFA, Fatso or Big Fat Blog. The only communication between these groups are people who crossover from the middle to the fringe. 

William 



ripley said:


> Mostly it happens when I'm with thin people. I guess I'm so used to making accommodations for my size that it's only when I'm next to thin people that it really hits home that I'm "abnormal." The most common one is if I'm sitting next to people that are the same height standing, but sitting my butt fat makes me sit up about six inches taller than they are.
> 
> 
> I think you're on to something about Dims. I saw this thing on Dateline or Primetime or one of those news magazine type shows, that was about how when you are in a group of like-minded people (with no counter-influence) behavior gets more and more extreme; yet, to the members of the group, the behavior seems rational and normal. I love having a safe place to be fat and talk about fat related stuff, but sometimes I wonder if the more extreme stuff here actually does a disservice in helping me get along in mainstream society.


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 23, 2007)

ripley said:


> Mostly it happens when I'm with thin people. I guess I'm so used to making accommodations for my size that it's only when I'm next to thin people that it really hits home that I'm "abnormal." The most common one is if I'm sitting next to people that are the same height standing, but sitting my butt fat makes me sit up about six inches taller than they are.
> 
> 
> I think you're on to something about Dims. I saw this thing on Dateline or Primetime or one of those news magazine type shows, that was about how when you are in a group of like-minded people (with no counter-influence) behavior gets more and more extreme; yet, to the members of the group, the behavior seems rational and normal. I love having a safe place to be fat and talk about fat related stuff, but sometimes I wonder if the more extreme stuff here actually does a disservice in helping me get along in mainstream society.



Last night during rush hour I was going home from a doctor's appointment on a bus I don't usually take. The bus was full of overexhausted hospital workers but in particular there was this group of young college girls together. There were about 7 of them and they were talking excitedly with each other. The number 8 bus passes by a Target store and they were all going shopping there. None of them were particualrly attractive but they garnered a lot of attention because they were a group, they were cutesy, they weren't the usual losers and whackos in hospital scrubs who ride the bus all the time.

Ok, I'm holding these chicks up as an example because whenever I hang out with fat girlfriends I hate hate hate how the theme of the whole outing revolves around us being fat. Every third sentance somebody has to proclaim and reassure the masses that yes, we are fat. If anyone looks at us, it's because we're fat. If anyone doesn't look at us, it's because we're fat. If they walk around us, it's because we're fat. If they walk through us, it's because we're fat. It's really annoying. 

The point of fat acceptance in my view is to be treated like everyone else, not to declare ourselves freaks at every opportunity. If people are looking it's okay, I'm looking at them too. It's not a capitol offense to look at somebody. If I'm traveling with a large group I'm going to expect people to notice us there just like anoyone would notice any large group traveling together and talking animatedly with each other. I don't know what I'm trying to say here but your comment about extreme behavior prompted me to speak on something that has bugged me for a long time.


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## Paw Paw (Mar 23, 2007)

As one of the Lilliputians, I am happy to share this world with you all.

Although I have a similar feeling when I see a picture. "Am I really that short?!"

But if we were all 6' and thin, it would be really boring.

Peace,
2P.


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## rainyday (Mar 23, 2007)

Thanks for the contributions, folks. Punkin, that misjudging thing does it for me too, especially when getting into a strange car. 

Rip, I think there's a positive flip side to the groupthink there. I've hung around here so much that when I'm out and about in the world I tend to be much more willing to believe not everyone is thinking negatively about my fat, and that in turn makes me more confident.


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## rainyday (Mar 23, 2007)

bigplaidpants said:


> <eye brows and anticipation high, bigplaidpants waives his hands furiously over the crowd wanting to be included in the survey>



Let it hereby be known then that *
bigplaidpants can wave his hands and wiggle his eyebrows.

*So recorded this day, the 23nd of March. 



*Oh, and he also thinks fat chicks are HOT!




*


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Mar 23, 2007)

rainyday said:


> It actually makes me wonder why people don't stare at me in public more.



I think almost everyone knows someone who's pretty fat. When you're dealing with a living person, they just don't seem that fat. Pictures are clarifying.


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## bigplaidpants (Mar 23, 2007)

rainyday said:


> Let it hereby be known then that *
> bigplaidpants can wave his hands and wiggle his eyebrows.
> 
> *So recorded this day, the 23nd of March.
> ...



LOL....like I said.....



bigplaidpants said:


> .... You friggin make me smile.



<sitting back in his chair, bigplaidpants resumes being an inconspicuous unassuming wallflower>


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## rainyday (Mar 23, 2007)

BBP



Tina said:


> Hmmm... people might think we've been naughty together...



We have. Very, very. Assuming they consider prompting you to spend money at LUSH tres scandalous.


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## Lapwing (Mar 23, 2007)

ripley said:


> I think you're on to something about Dims. I saw this thing on Dateline or Primetime or one of those news magazine type shows, that was about how when you are in a group of like-minded people (with no counter-influence) behavior gets more and more extreme; yet, to the members of the group, the behavior seems rational and normal. I love having a safe place to be fat and talk about fat related stuff, but sometimes I wonder if the more extreme stuff here actually does a disservice in helping me get along in mainstream society.



This is a really good point, and I think that a lot of people in the world live in "enclaves" in which their behaviour seems perfectly normal and right. It's certainly not just in this community as I have seen it in other communities I have touched upon or become involved with, especially on the net, but also sometimes in day-to-day life.

I have had the experience of being cut off from the size acceptance world of Dimensions by losing my access to the internet, and on losing this accepting world, I lost my safe place to be fat and accepted. And it made it harder to get along in the mainstream world as I couldn't carry the confidence that Dimensions instilled in me without access to the community in the way that Rainyday has her confidence instilled by being here.


> *Rainyday* I think there's a positive flip side to the groupthink there. I've hung around here so much that when I'm out and about in the world I tend to be much more willing to believe not everyone is thinking negatively about my fat, and that in turn makes me more confident.



So in some ways this "bunker mentality" thinking may be doing us a disservice because we may all be kidding ourselves  , but in other ways, if a lot of our lack of confidence is not having the role models that other people have then by getting together and being role models for each other we can normalise ourselves in this Lilliputian world.


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## ripley (Mar 23, 2007)

rainyday said:


> Thanks for the contributions, folks. Punkin, that misjudging thing does it for me too, especially when getting into a strange car.
> 
> Rip, I think there's a positive flip side to the groupthink there. I've hung around here so much that when I'm out and about in the world I tend to be much more willing to believe not everyone is thinking negatively about my fat, and that in turn makes me more confident.



That's why I said "the more extreme stuff here"...because a lot of the less extreme stuff is invaluable in helping us get along and hold our heads high. I have just noticed within myself that I'm a lot more open and accepting of more extreme things fat related...I'm not saying that in itself is negative, just that maybe it's not the best thing for getting along in the real world.


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## Brenda (Mar 23, 2007)

I think you make an excellent point, Ripley. 

There are many things occuring in the BBW world you just don't see in significant numbers outside that bubble. For example the only people I know with paysites (porn or softcore) are fat. Is that because this community holds as the standard of "true acceptance" showing your body off and the charging for it is just a shoot off of that? The fact is while I see many people showing pictures of themselves or attending bbw events in very sexy outfits I rarely see a fat woman out and about dressed that way. In fact it is super rare and when you do you are sure to hear people snickering and stunned looks. So while you may get kudos here for dressing that way you will certainly face more difficulty in the real world by doing so. 

Brenda




""That's why I said "the more extreme stuff here"...because a lot of the less extreme stuff is invaluable in helping us get along and hold our heads high. I have just noticed within myself that I'm a lot more open and accepting of more extreme things fat related...I'm not saying that in itself is negative, just that maybe it's not the best thing for getting along in the real world."'


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## Sweet Tooth (Mar 24, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> <snip> Ok, I'm holding these chicks up as an example because whenever I hang out with fat girlfriends I hate hate hate how the theme of the whole outing revolves around us being fat. Every third sentance somebody has to proclaim and reassure the masses that yes, we are fat. If anyone looks at us, it's because we're fat. If anyone doesn't look at us, it's because we're fat. If they walk around us, it's because we're fat. If they walk through us, it's because we're fat. It's really annoying.
> 
> The point of fat acceptance in my view is to be treated like everyone else, not to declare ourselves freaks at every opportunity. If people are looking it's okay, I'm looking at them too. It's not a capitol offense to look at somebody. If I'm traveling with a large group I'm going to expect people to notice us there just like anoyone would notice any large group traveling together and talking animatedly with each other. I don't know what I'm trying to say here but your comment about extreme behavior prompted me to speak on something that has bugged me for a long time.



To me, this is just fat being only one part of who you are, not the all-encompassing definition of you. I find labels handy, but obviously lacking. I'm a lot more than my fat or my genitalia [to pick two obvious characteristics that define me in this world].



Brenda said:


> I<snip> There are many things occuring in the BBW world you just don't see in significant numbers outside that bubble. For example the only people I know with paysites (porn or softcore) are fat. Is that because this community holds as the standard of "true acceptance" showing your body off and the charging for it is just a shoot off of that? The fact is while I see many people showing pictures of themselves or attending bbw events in very sexy outfits I rarely see a fat woman out and about dressed that way. In fact it is super rare and when you do you are sure to hear people snickering and stunned looks. So while you may get kudos here for dressing that way you will certainly face more difficulty in the real world by doing so. <snip>



I think one benefit of being part of this community is that my fat doesn't define me [see above] because everyone's fat. [Well, the BBWs and BHM are...] But since that issue is dealt with, so to speak, I can be seen for the rest of who I am.

And as for the outfits, I do dress differently when I'm at parties than I would in everyday life. Heck, even parties in my "everyday life" usually involve people wearing jeans and sweatshirts, not sparkly, spangly things. It's one of the reasons I love BBW events. Not only do I get to dress up in a supportive environment, but I get a built-in excuse for buying that outfit that I know I'm only going to wear once! :bounce: And isn't it this way for skinny women, too? It's on reason we buy things on vacation that we'll never wear when we get back home [say, a grass skirt]. They "fit" in that environment, but just look silly when we get to the office. The real-life benefit for me, though, is more comfort in wearing everyday clothes that are typically off-limits for fat girls. I wear sleeveless tops if I want. My wedding dress was sleeveless, and I had more than one woman say she wished she had my nerve. But that nerve came from practice in a safe environment. And, I got to make mistakes in that environment, too, with people only snickering because it was a lame outfit, not because I was fat and dressed in a lame outfit.

[Oooh, side note/previously told story... in Vegas this last year, I was a tiny bit self-conscious doing the revealing fat-girl clothing thing in a hotel filled with people who were obviously not there for the Bash. As I was going back to the elevators in Misty's sparkly gold strapless dress and fairy wings, a little girl stopped her mother as they were walking to the elevators, looked at me with her mouth open, and said, "I love the fairy!" with awe in her voice. Now *that* is worth any discomfort in the world!]


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 24, 2007)

Brenda said:


> There are many things occuring in the BBW world you just don't see in significant numbers outside that bubble. For example the only people I know with paysites (porn or softcore) are fat. Is that because this community holds as the standard of "true acceptance" showing your body off and the charging for it is just a shoot off of that?



I don't think the community as a whole encourages people to dress skimpy or pose for paysites. I think it may just be tolerance masked as approval. Mainstream porn and pinup modeling has been around forever. Any hard bodied, silicone enhanced workout warrior with aspirations to model need only send pictures in to different agencies like Playboy, Penthouse or whatever to get noticed and featured. There are amateur places all over the place too. There aren't too many mainstream agencies looking for 500 pound models unless it's for a gag or something awful. But the bottom line, scores of regular every day people want to pose for Playboy or do snuff films. Places like that receive thousands of entries from people every day and toss many of them out. It's just another choice or dream of the soul as any other.

Fat people with a burning desire to pose have everything in common mentally with a thin person who wants to. The only difference is that there are less options for a fat person if they want to be a model, hence the need for a separate scene and set of standards here. Also if a regular model poses for a porn site it is not seen as a reflection on thin society as a whole or equated with a general mindset of the community, they are just following their dream. If a fat person does the same, people are quick to apply a label to the fat community simply because of the insular nature of the business. As a person who has gone to events dressed in skimp and sequins and also posted semi-nude photos I can say that feelings are widely mixed within the fat community and not necessarily supportive. The fat community tends to display more tolerance for people who have paysites or post pictures on the web but that should not be mistaken for approval or a community standard.


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## William (Mar 24, 2007)

Hi Lilly

What is different in the Fat Community is all the social activism, support, soft-porn, porn and fetishes takes place in a very insular community making it seem that things like Fat People activism has something to do with Fat Porn.

A analogy would be the Feminist movement having pay-sites all around the place.

William





LillyBBBW said:


> I don't think the community as a whole encourages people to dress skimpy or pose for paysites. I think it may just be tolerance masked as approval. Mainstream porn and pinup modeling has been around forever. Any hard bodied, silicone enhanced workout warrior with aspirations to model need only send pictures in to different agencies like Playboy, Penthouse or whatever to get noticed and featured. There are amateur places all over the place too. There aren't too many mainstream agencies looking for 500 pound models unless it's for a gag or something awful. But the bottom line, scores of regular every day people want to pose for Playboy or do snuff films. Places like that receive thousands of entries from people every day and toss many of them out. It's just another choice or dream of the soul as any other.
> 
> Fat people with a burning desire to pose have everything in common mentally with a thin person who wants to. The only difference is that there are less options for a fat person if they want to be a model, hence the need for a separate scene and set of standards here. Also if a regular model poses for a porn site it is not seen as a reflection on thin society as a whole or equated with a general mindset of the community, they are just following their dream. If a fat person does the same, people are quick to apply a label to the fat community simply because of the insular nature of the business. As a person who has gone to events dressed in skimp and sequins and also posted semi-nude photos I can say that feelings are widely mixed within the fat community and not necessarily supportive. The fat community tends to display more tolerance for people who have paysites or post pictures on the web but that should not be mistaken for approval or a community standard.


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## LillyBBBW (Mar 24, 2007)

William said:


> Hi Lilly
> 
> What is different in the Fat Community is all the social activism, support, soft-porn, porn and fetishes takes place in a very insular community making it seem that things like Fat People activism has something to do with Fat Porn.
> 
> ...



I agree completely William.


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## William (Mar 24, 2007)

Still 

I think that having plus Sized people who are proud of their bodies is great**!!

William 

**In the voice of Tony the Tiger



LillyBBBW said:


> I agree completely William.


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## Brenda (Mar 24, 2007)

I was not suggesting that the community as whole (though in my mind it is a significant amount) encourages posing for paysites though I think there is a real pressure to dress skimpily as some sort of prove of self acceptance. My point was that perhaps the seeming abundance of paysite models in a relatively small community may be in part due to the atmosophere that encourages showing one's body off.

When I was in my 20's I did the whole scantily clad thing so I am not saying this as a judgment but as an observation. While I feel fat people should wear what they want there choice will make it more or less difficult to fit into mainstream society.


Brenda


""I don't think the community as a whole encourages people to dress skimpy or pose for paysites. I think it may just be tolerance masked as approval. Mainstream porn and pinup modeling has been around forever. Any hard bodied, silicone enhanced workout warrior with aspirations to model need only send pictures in to different agencies like Playboy, Penthouse or whatever to get noticed and featured. There are amateur places all over the place too. There aren't too many mainstream agencies looking for 500 pound models unless it's for a gag or something awful. But the bottom line, scores of regular every day people want to pose for Playboy or do snuff films. Places like that receive thousands of entries from people every day and toss many of them out. It's just another choice or dream of the soul as any other.

Fat people with a burning desire to pose have everything in common mentally with a thin person who wants to. The only difference is that there are less options for a fat person if they want to be a model, hence the need for a separate scene and set of standards here. Also if a regular model poses for a porn site it is not seen as a reflection on thin society as a whole or equated with a general mindset of the community, they are just following their dream. If a fat person does the same, people are quick to apply a label to the fat community simply because of the insular nature of the business. As a person who has gone to events dressed in skimp and sequins and also posted semi-nude photos I can say that feelings are widely mixed within the fat community and not necessarily supportive. The fat community tends to display more tolerance for people who have paysites or post pictures on the web but that should not be mistaken for approval or a community standard.
__________________


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## BitsyAintMyName (Mar 24, 2007)

I only really think about it when my stomach prevents me from doing something. I have no hips or waist whatsoever(nor did I before I got big) and so my tummy just hangs there. Sometimes it knocks stuff down when I'm in a store and that's pretty darned embarassing for a person my age. *lol* Honestly, my boobs knock more stuff over than my tummy but it bothers me more about my tummy. Its "ok" to have big tits but not ok to have a big stomach.


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## Lilbexter (Mar 24, 2007)

I think the Love/Hate relationship with my body allows my weight to be on my mind constantly, whether or not it be in a negetive or a positive light. I find myself feeling the fattest when I'm with a group of girl friends who are much smaller, both in body and in presence. In being compared, I would obviously stand out as the biggest one, regardless of whether or not that would constitute my being "fat". I don't know if it's so much as us regarding ourselves as fat in an epiphony, as it is more of us realizing how others might see us in an everyday situation in equation to our environment. 


I guess in all my rambling, what I'm trying to say is that we would probably never truly realize our size if it weren't taken out of context. If that makes any sense...lol


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## bigplaidpants (Mar 25, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> I don't think the community as a whole encourages people to dress skimpy or pose for paysites. ..... Fat people with a burning desire to pose have everything in common mentally with a thin person who wants to. The only difference is that there are less options for a fat person if they want to be a model, hence the need for a separate scene and set of standards here. ....





William said:


> Hi Lilly
> 
> What is different in the Fat Community is all the social activism, support, soft-porn, porn and fetishes takes place in a very insular community making it seem that things like Fat People activism has something to do with Fat Porn.
> 
> ...





Brenda said:


> I was not suggesting that the community as whole (though in my mind it is a significant amount) encourages posing for paysites though I think there is a real pressure to dress skimpily as some sort of prove of self acceptance. My point was that perhaps the seeming abundance of paysite models in a relatively small community may be in part due to the atmosophere that encourages showing one's body off.




Is the conclusion, then, that there _is _ no relationship between fat activism and exhibitionism (paysites, etc)?

I believe exhibitionism can be, and is, a very poweful and direct form of activism. I realize I am speaking out of turn as a guy, not a BBW. But I hope my observations, here, aren't irrelevant.

First, I agree - No one internal to the fat/size acceptance community is *encouraging* paysites for fat folk or the like. No one should, either. There is no moral or political victory in mirroring a culture that objectifies women, pathologizes fat people, and preys on insecurities with shifting definitions physical perfection. 

That said, I DO think paysites and exhibitionism play an important role in the fat/size acceptance community. The role is transgression - transgressing the norms that would invisiblize, brutalize (thru diets, etc), vilify, and pathologize a big/fat body. What the paysites (and other forms of exhibitionism) do for the fat/size acceptance community is shatter the taboo. They demonstrate a big fat body as desireable, beautiful, and the standard. While there is no pressure, or even expectation that we all exhibit ourselves, I do think being fat in a lilliputian world creates the hope for such a possibility. It is a rightfully tortured hope, but a hope nonetheless.

This is where fat activism and fat exhibitionism CAN come together. 

So far, really only BBW's participate in this political/social/sexual exhibitionism. And, as such, all the unresolved problems of sexism and questions of objectification follow. But, in the future, perhaps men (BHM's, etc) and FA's can participate more. Rainyday is kinda picking up this idea in a FA pic thread. I like it b/c it forces men and deviant desires out into the open. Showing how FA's love big/fat women also upsets the norm. By exhibiting themselves, they help liberate the world a little, too.

Anyway, I don't think I'm saying anything new.


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## William (Mar 25, 2007)

Hi BPP

Outside of Dimensions and Live Journal I really do not see many BBWs sharing/selling exotic photos. Most Fat Conversations that I see online in Yahoo Groups and Blogs focus on fashion problems, lack of respect, medical treatment, family/In-laws, body issues, problems like the reporting on fat issues in the news and etc.

I think that the historical closeness of Fat Social Activities and Fat Activism allows hostile/opportunist reporters to ridicule Fat Activism by focusing on events like BBW Dances and the shenanigans that occur there.

William




bigplaidpants said:


> Is the conclusion, then, that there _is _ no relationship between fat activism and exhibitionism (paysites, etc)?
> 
> I believe exhibitionism can be, and is, a very poweful and direct form of activism. I realize I am speaking out of turn as a guy, not a BBW. But I hope my observations, here, aren't irrelevant.
> 
> ...


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## bigplaidpants (Mar 25, 2007)

William said:


> Hi BPP
> 
> Outside of Dimensions and Live Journal I really do not see many BBWs sharing/selling exotic photos. Most Fat Conversations that I see online in Yahoo Groups and Blogs focus on fashion problems, lack of respect, medical treatment, family/In-laws, body issues, problems like the reporting on fat issues in the news and etc.
> 
> ...



Hey, William.

Thanks. Your point is well taken. I actually don't participate in the fat community outside of Dim much. So, my observations are limited to that context. You wider view is helpful.

Is part of the point that real activism issues and the difficulties of the fat community are submerged or distracted from by these social events and paysites? As you said, that the media simply exploits these aspects to give the fat community a sensational flat face? If so, I can see how the "surface" aspects of the fat community and fat acceptance keep activism hemmed in, seemingly insignificant, or trapped in obscurity.


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## butch (Mar 25, 2007)

Hi BPP,

The gainer/encourager and chub gay male communities have plenty of online sites and other forms of sexual material and/or porn to choose from, so it's not just the BBWs who are participating in these types of pay site/modeling behaviors. I imagine many of the FFAs at this site also hang out at some of the fat gay sites, since their community is a lot larger/more active, I would say, than the FFA/BHM community (which means-more photos for the FFAs to enjoy). They also have their conventions and the like, but I do not believe they have the same ties to fat activism that we might see in the FA/BBW community.

Just some info that might complicate the argument a bit about the whos and the whys of pay site modeling and the like.


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## Chunk Admirer (Mar 26, 2007)

ashmamma84 said:


> Every morning I am somehow reminded - I take the El to work (it's Chicago's subway) and the seats are not big at all. Now, I'm not a supersized woman, however I am plus sized and it's just a very tight squeeze if someone tries to sit next to me as my rear takes up some of the other seat. So, I try to catch the single seats, but if not, then someone just ends up with an uncomfortable ride to work.



If only every day I could be so fortunate to have an "uncomfortable squeeze" on the way to work. What a perfect way to start off the day! I would be on Cloud 9. One can only dream I suppose.....


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## Tooz (Mar 26, 2007)

Brenda said:


> ...attending bbw events in very sexy outfits I rarely see a fat woman out and about dressed that way.



Well, honestly? I dress differently in the presence of FAs and/or size-acceptance people. If I went to a Dims meetup or a BBW dance type thing, I'd probably wear something "sexy" ("sexy" for me isn't the same thing as next to nothing, though). Why? Because I can do so there. Smaller women get away with dressing scantily on a daily basis, whereas I would face jeering and whatnot. Maybe these women who show up at the BBW dances want to have a chance to dress as such and not be rejected for it? A woman who'd wear shorts and a t-shirt at a BBW gathering might not be caught dead on a normal day in anything short.


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