# The Hotei Thread



## Obesus (Jul 24, 2006)

"Hotei, or Bu-Dai (pinyin:b&#249; d&#224;i lu&#243; h&#224;n, literally Calico Bag Arhat) is better known in the English-speaking world as the obese Laughing Buddha. In China, he is called Bu-Dai (Wade-Giles Pu-Tai) or M&#237; L&#232; F&#243; and dubbed the Loving or Friendly One. He has become incorporated into Buddhist & Shinto culture and is based on an eccentric Chinese Chan monk. His image graces many temples, restaurants, and amulets. Hotei has become a deity of contentment and abundance, Taoist in origin. Hotei persists in Japanese folklore as one of the Seven Lucky Gods (Shichi Fukujin)." (Wikipedia)

There are a multitude of reasons why we need a Hotei thread...but my favorite reason is that at the moment of enlightenment, his response was to burst forth with uprorious laughter....he was an actual person; a wandering C'han monk in China whose Zen consisted of making children laugh with delight by presenting them with little donuts! He helped to pave the way for much more popular acceptance of Zen (C'han) culture in both Japan and China. There are literally thousands of Hotei images from Asia...what could be better than a thread about fat holy men? Eh? Oh...my friend Joseph Caezza once wrote an article on fat holy men for Magical Blend magazine...I will try to dig it up...there are many interesting points! Salutations on all Three Points!
Shri Shri Swami Jalaram Jalanandaji (Timmy) :bow:


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## Obesus (Jul 24, 2006)

....explaining what the Moon is when people ask them, by pointing a finger..._AT THE MOON_! When the people then say: "What a lovely finger you have!"....he knows he is among earthlings! :doh: 
Wittgenstein would be pleased! :bow: For some reason, that makes my hungry!:eat1:


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## Obesus (Jul 25, 2006)

....sheesh...it took me an hour just to get the itty bitty introductory part of the OCOM rituals up....no wonder Freemasonry is considered a holy_ labor_...just a thought! :bow: 
Oh, by the way, the Rite of Memphis and Misraim, with which I have some "gage of amity" things going on, has 99 dang degrees...makes my head spin and ache all at once....reminds me of another Fat Holy Man...Ralph Kramden...when he and Ed went off to those crazy lodge rituals with the fezzes on! Bingo! Gosh, when you think about it, there are Fat Holy Men all over the map!


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## missaf (Jul 25, 2006)

Don't forget the ritual of buffet! Right, BuffetBelly? It's hard work, isn't it??


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## Obesus (Jul 26, 2006)

....a true amour fou and a ritual du gloire'! Messr. BB knows that there is labor to the gain, but a pleasureable, fit and commodious labor that produces a most rectifying and adumbratiously ecstatic result! :bow: In other words, a yumminess and circularity of tumminess! Satluetm Punctis Trianguli!
I am sure our freundin in the photo below has labor aplenty, but the spaciousness and gloire' of the result! A labour of love, in truth!)



missaf said:


> Don't forget the ritual of buffet! Right, BuffetBelly? It's hard work, isn't it??


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## Obesus (Jul 26, 2006)

The fat man and the moon...what a wonderful pair! I always associate the Moon with the Soul....She who walks within me...we are always taught here in the place that we live in, that one must be in a relationship to be full and complete as a person...what is rarely taught is that the relationship occurs within us and then we have a circle of friends and those intimate with us around us...inside, outside, around, within....it always comes down to space, time, place, being there and mindfulness...


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## Obesus (Jul 27, 2006)

....prana, orgone, quintessentia, the odic force...the lifeforce has its' own wisdom and its' own will and the fat holy man acts as a reservoir for that larger than life energy. The essence of mastering the lifeforce is to allow it its' own way...trying to bottle it up or control it or force it in certain directions invariably leads to horrible mistakes. A "master" is just someone who has learned to live with the baraka on its' own terms and has stopped trying to fight it...for that is when the enlightenment occurs...it is one of the hardest lessons to learn and very often the mistakes made upon the way can seem to be the end of life itself...even after the great surrender to the will of baraka, masters make mistakes, just like anyone else, but they can generally take responsibility for them and try to heal the wounds they may cause. It is sometimes so hard to just sit in the fog and mist and be with such pains, but it is a step on the road to healing that we must take....:bow: This is one of those nights I really need to sit with Hotei and just be very, very quiet....


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## steely (Jul 27, 2006)

I am lost on this subject but I love the Happy Hotei.It makes me happy to look at him


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## BellyQueen (Jul 27, 2006)

Does any one believe our bellies are our second brain and our bellies are our spiritual center?:eat2:


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## gentle_viewer (Jul 27, 2006)

I'm enjoying reading this thread.


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## Obesus (Jul 28, 2006)

That is the whole idea right there..the happiness that the images bring to you right now....Zen is about being mindful right here, right now and not being off in mental fogs and confusions in some other time frame or imaginary space...that is the Hotei energy...direct, clear and right here with you....feels great, eh?



steely said:


> I am lost on this subject but I love the Happy Hotei.It makes me happy to look at him


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## Obesus (Jul 28, 2006)

...whom I have sadly lost contact with over the years, once wrote a great article on fat holy men for Magical Blend magazine. In it, he stated that the fat holy man basically stores large amounts of prana or lifeforce, highly refined by constant circulation, in the belly. That is absolute truth. The belly has its' own wisdom and I wrote another article on the magic of the belly for Occulture Magazine in England many years ago....I will scan it and post it sometime soon....it goes into great detail on the mechanics of the circulation and refinement process....but yes, the belly has its' own wisdom and spirit....three fingers below the navel...which on most fat holy men and women, lays pretty low to the ground! :eat2: :eat1: 



BellyQueen said:


> Does any one believe our bellies are our second brain and our bellies are our spiritual center?:eat2:


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## Obesus (Jul 28, 2006)

Wait until we get to the part where the Kalachakra Tantra merges effortlessly with Superstring theory in the twelve watchtowers of the Enochian Freemasons! Hang on for the ride! 



gentle_viewer said:


> I'm enjoying reading this thread.


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## Buffetbelly (Jul 28, 2006)

The Sumo wrestlers certainly consider the art of stuffing to be a religious experience. :eat1: Sumo meals are filled with ritual and pregnant with spiritual meaning. The displipline required for massive eating by the small-framed genetically slender men is considerable. 

No wonder that sumo are the rock stars of Japan and followed by eager young female groupies who throw themselves on them.


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## Buffetbelly (Jul 28, 2006)

A female feeder of my acquaintance who is also a bit of a graphic artist gave me this award a couple years ago:


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## Buffetbelly (Jul 28, 2006)

There are many examples of fat Buddas, of course, but this one strikes me as particularly relevant. He seems to be giving himself a belly massage, perhaps after a particularly massive meal? Or maybe he's showing off his ample belly for some adoring worshippers?


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## Obesus (Jul 28, 2006)

It is fascinating that it is always the arcane and rare in the human frame that draws the most attention,as was often the case with the old Circus fat folk....were the population of the US scrawny and wiry, we might be considered something of a rarity and highly sought after...as it is, we are only part of an ocean and our inner qualitites are all that separate us from the vast herds of fat men! Who could have ever imagined?
The sumo meal is a fascinating thing...Sumo and Zen have had many close contacts over the years...sometime soon I will tell my story about the Sumo wrestler and the Zen Master from "Zen Bones, Zen Flesh." Thank you for the insight, as always!



Buffetbelly said:


> The Sumo wrestlers certainly consider the art of stuffing to be a religious experience. :eat1: Sumo meals are filled with ritual and pregnant with spiritual meaning. The displipline required for massive eating by the small-framed genetically slender men is considerable.
> 
> No wonder that sumo are the rock stars of Japan and followed by eager young female groupies who throw themselves on them.


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## Buffetbelly (Jul 28, 2006)

Of course, religion has changed radically over the millenia. Contrast the situation in the last ice age to modern times in terms of what is worshipped and who is doing the worshipping:


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## Obesus (Jul 28, 2006)

Who was of pleasingly plump Holy Man frame himself, relates the story of Trailinga Swami, a 300+ pound skyclad (nude) sadhu or holy man, who habitually wandered the banks of the Ganges, teaching and meditating. The British authorities were shocked by his nude form, so they arrested him. An hour later, he was seen strolling over the roof of the jail with not a care in the world...the British wisely realized that they were dealing with forces from beyond our world, so they "released" him and just let it be! He would fast for days on end and then suddenly break the fast with enormous amounts of clabbered milk...he was reputed to have lived over 300 years....hmmmm...perchance it might be time to do my Hong-Sau pranayama for the morning! Huzzah! :bow: 







Buffetbelly said:


> There are many examples of fat Buddas, of course, but this one strikes me as particularly relevant. He seems to be giving himself a belly massage, perhaps after a particularly massive meal? Or maybe he's showing off his ample belly for some adoring worshippers?


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## steely (Jul 29, 2006)

Obesus said:


> That is the whole idea right there..the happiness that the images bring to you right now....Zen is about being mindful right here, right now and not being off in mental fogs and confusions in some other time frame or imaginary space...that is the Hotei energy...direct, clear and right here with you....feels great, eh?



Wow,that was truly clear.I guess I was making it way harder than it has to be.You have no idea how great!Thank you


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## Obesus (Jul 29, 2006)

I have ever had was sitting, waiting for the MUNI bus when out of the blue, a small Asian child darted toward me and touched my belly for luck...I love validation as a disciple of Hotei! :bow: It seems that children naturally "get" Zen while we adults scratch our heads thinking way too hard!  



steely said:


> Wow,that was truly clear.I guess I was making it way harder than it has to be.You have no idea how great!Thank you


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## Obesus (Jul 29, 2006)

The place three finger-widths below the navel...the true center of gravity, is lower and more massive....the Fat Holy Man stands on Earth with weight and gravity (Gu-ru in Sanskrit literally means a person of weight and substance) yet anchors the sky to the Earth...the navel is the core but the spine is the staff that forms the axis of rotation for the circulating energy...the belly holds vast oceans of lifeforce by virtue not only of its' subtance, but of its' geometry and complex shapes....it is a matter for Non-euclidean geometry, as a matter of fact....complex spiralling traceries of lifeforce commingling like black, white and grey smoke...:bow:


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jul 29, 2006)

Obesus said:


> I have ever had was sitting, waiting for the MUNI bus when out of the blue, a small Asian child darted toward me and touched my belly for luck...I love validation as a disciple of Hotei! :bow: It seems that children naturally "get" Zen while we adults scratch our heads thinking way too hard!



What a sweet story! 

Edit: My aunt, who is Thai and grew up Buddhist, told me to NEVER touch the Hotei belly, because I'd end up pregnant.


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## Obesus (Jul 29, 2006)

_That_ must be the reason that Asian women cut me such wide berth! Or, perhaps they are just concerned that I might careen into them with my vastness, since I am usually pretty will lost in holy thoughts! :bow:  
Must remember mindfulness about space and geometric location in all 11 Calabi-Yau space dimensions! Oooooh...I think I better take a quick math refresher before I get on the MUNI bus!  



TheSadeianLinguist said:


> What a sweet story!
> 
> Edit: My aunt, who is Thai and grew up Buddhist, told me to NEVER touch the Hotei belly, because I'd end up pregnant.


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## BellyQueen (Jul 29, 2006)

Obesus, I would be very interested and LOVE for you to post the article you wrote on the magic of the belly:wubu: Or you could e-mail it to me at [email protected] I would REALLY appreciate it :bow:


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## Obesus (Jul 30, 2006)

I will definitely scan it tomorrow and post it to the Obesonomicon site:
http://obesonomicon.homestead.com/obesonomicon.html
...as well as emailing it...it appeared in a very old edition of Occulture Magazine, printed by the Temple of Psychick Youth, in England...my pleasure




BellyQueen said:


> Obesus, I would be very interested and LOVE for you to post the article you wrote on the magic of the belly:wubu: Or you could e-mail it to me at [email protected] I would REALLY appreciate it :bow:


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## Obesus (Jul 31, 2006)

...the article from Occulture...it is more complicated than it might seem...I have to scan the images separately and then Photoshop them, scan the words and then OCR them...put it all back together, edit it with some new info and less quirky language and re-do three diagrams because they won't scan...but it is coming and then the easier ones, like "Disciples of Flesh." :bow:


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## Obesus (Aug 3, 2006)

Magically...after much heaving of bulk and re-typing and editing!

http://obesonomicon.homestead.com/imagick.html



BellyQueen said:


> Obesus, I would be very interested and LOVE for you to post the article you wrote on the magic of the belly:wubu: Or you could e-mail it to me at [email protected] I would REALLY appreciate it :bow:



I have also emailed it to you in both Microsoft Word and Star Office Writer HTML format...hopefully one of them will work!
Obesus
PS...this also begins my drift back to the Tantric thread, which should go up later today...fat men and Tantra...what a concept!


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## Obesus (Aug 3, 2006)

....to tackle the next two articles to be posted at the Obesonomicon web site..."The Disciples of Flesh" from the first edition of _Apocalypse Culture_
published by AMOK press and "Surgeons and Gluttons in the House of Flesh" from the second version of the first edition, which is actually a different book, published by Feral House....avast! There will be a point of rousing...or arousal, or centering or centeredness or something! Dammit!   :bow:


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## philosobear (Aug 3, 2006)

Many thanks for that, Obesus. So much in there to think about- a lot of fascinating background and a couple of things that I could take on in my own practices. I know what a pain it is manhandling things from one medium to another, but the effort is worthwhile, and much appreciated. Keep it coming, Rev!


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## philosobear (Aug 3, 2006)

I think anyone who has practiced martial arts, any kind of energy work or singing will have found that the centre in the belly is the key to changes in conciousness, sound and movement. I remember an experience that made this graphically clear to me. I had taken some magic mushrooms at a party, and they made my perception of my energy very clear and very visual. The sensations in my body allowed me to see the golden light radiating up from my navel centre. I could literally see and feel the light radiating up from deep in my belly. It relaxed my posture, so my hips moved more freely, and warmed and opened my throat, so my voice became deeper and more relaxed. 

On the outside that night was simply spent dancing and talking to friends. On the inside it was a meditation of respect and compassion and (which are associated in some sources with the stomach and spleen) and a coming home to my own body. Too much was thought and felt that night inside me to tell all of here, and some I couldn't tell without confusing matters, but on a physical level, what started the process was letting go of my stomach muscles and breathing deeply into my belly. It is the transformative centre of us.


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## Obesus (Aug 3, 2006)

...between the Earth's own alchemical furnace and that of the individual practitioner really stands out during such experiences and reminds us that the ultimate point of the pranayama (lifeforce control) is to aid the Body of Earth to ascend to a higher point on the cosmic spiral...it only takes a few practitioners scattered around the Earth to cause a tremendous shift in consciousness and energy...pulling energy from the Earth's core up into the skies. If you have ever done astral work, you can see the bright points of light on the surface of the planet if you take a position somewhere near the North Pole...each one of those is an individual or group practising the Holy Arts....The entire Rosicrucian Work is about this process and most genuine initiatic traditions know it intimately...which explains why a large percentage of Rosicrucians were.....fat! It is something I have noticed through the years and have heard many stories through many sources...it is a thing out there that is real!



philosobear said:


> I think anyone who has practiced martial arts, any kind of energy work or singing will have found that the centre in the belly is the key to changes in conciousness, sound and movement. I remember an experience that made this graphically clear to me. I had taken some magic mushrooms at a party, and they made my perception of my energy very clear and very visual. The sensations in my body allowed me to see the golden light radiating up from my navel centre. I could literally see and feel the light radiating up from deep in my belly. It relaxed my posture, so my hips moved more freely, and warmed and opened my throat, so my voice became deeper and more relaxed.
> 
> On the outside that night was simply spent dancing and talking to friends. On the inside it was a meditation of respect and compassion and (which are associated in some sources with the stomach and spleen) and a coming home to my own body. Too much was thought and felt that night inside me to tell all of here, and some I couldn't tell without confusing matters, but on a physical level, what started the process was letting go of my stomach muscles and breathing deeply into my belly. It is the transformative centre of us.


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## Obesus (Aug 4, 2006)

...from Apocalypse Culture is scanned and up....

http://obesonomicon.homestead.com/disciples.html


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## Santaclear (Aug 4, 2006)

Just checking in, Cousin Obesus, to let you know I keep reading the thread title as "The Hotel Thread" since I lack some culture. Great stuff tho!  Carry on.

I should mention that some (hell, most!) BBW and SSBBW rumps also do possess that magical magnetic mind-cleansing engine-humming all-is-well-and-how-it-should-be quality of perfection as do large bellies of both male and female persuasion.


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## Santaclear (Aug 4, 2006)

Buffetbelly said:


> Of course, religion has changed radically over the millenia. Contrast the situation in the last ice age to modern times in terms of what is worshipped and who is doing the worshipping:




That's funny, Buffet and um, accurate too!


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## Obesus (Aug 5, 2006)

No, not the Clive Barker kind....Cenobites are holy folk living in communities and Eremites are solitary dwellers on towers, mountains and wandering monks passing through the community doing their works. It is a significant question and one that is made in the heart. It invokes the question of the Call...the silent words of the spirit and the conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel in the City of the Twelve Watchtowers. Then there are those unfortunates who live in a nether-world somewhere in the mists around the Temple of Sophia who express the changing passions of the Moon and do Her work in the pain of the World facing the horrors that even the imagination of Clive Barker cannot fathom. :bow:


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## philosobear (Aug 5, 2006)

Having read "disciples of the flesh", I am prompted to ask, would any fat holy women like to step up and give their pen'orth?


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## Obesus (Aug 5, 2006)

Always a pleasure to hear from you! I have to admit, that I have to look twice occasionally at the thread title about the "Hotel" thing to make sure that I didn't misspell it!

The base of the body, the fundus, is, indeed another foundation of the lifeforce and various tuchii, do indeed carry the power...just look at the Venus of Willendorf, whose rump is as prominent as her belly! I think it is important to bring up here, since many of our FFA's are actually quite slender, that it is in no way any lessening or questioning of their ability to work with the lifeforce energy just as well as any large person; just that slender bodies have a different but equal sense of power! I have been with tiny women, average women and very large women over my 55 years and it is always the individual's development of that energy that really determines how the experience manifests and evolves. That is important to bring up....my own tastes have definitely swung toward slender women over the years, for a variety of reasons, but I salute my SSBBW and BBW sisters as Holy Women in their own right! :bow: 



Santaclear said:


> Just checking in, Cousin Obesus, to let you know I keep reading the thread title as "The Hotel Thread" since I lack some culture. Great stuff tho!  Carry on.
> 
> I should mention that some (hell, most!) BBW and SSBBW rumps also do possess that magical magnetic mind-cleansing engine-humming all-is-well-and-how-it-should-be quality of perfection as do large bellies of both male and female persuasion.


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## Obesus (Aug 5, 2006)

...set firmly in the spiritual tradition of Sar Josephine Peladan, that I might speak to both genders' to some small and limited degree...but I think you have a strong point....if we have any Fat Holy Women....might they speak?....heck, Holy Women of all sizes are equally invited! 



philosobear said:


> Having read "disciples of the flesh", I am prompted to ask, would any fat holy women like to step up and give their pen'orth?


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## Obesus (Aug 5, 2006)

Obesus.....The answer is the essence of simplicity...neither Cenobite nor Eremite, but Lunar and Strange, Sophic, Artistic and Tantric....that always brings up the issue of celibacy and the answer is that I am celibate, unless I am with the person I love and then tantric sexuality becomes _a_ spiritual core of relating, but not the only core or foundation there is....folks in the West tend to assume that "Tantric" means open and wild sexuality....in fact, it means more discipline, better boundaries and more clear relationships through open and honest communication...something mostly lacking in most Western sentimentalist relationships...but I get ahead of myself...this will be a key issue of the Tantric Teaching Thread which starts soon....with Cosmology and Astronomy!
Obe-wan-kenobi



Obesus said:


> No, not the Clive Barker kind....Cenobites are holy folk living in communities and Eremites are solitary dwellers on towers, mountains and wandering monks passing through the community doing their works. It is a significant question and one that is made in the heart. It invokes the question of the Call...the silent words of the spirit and the conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel in the City of the Twelve Watchtowers. Then there are those unfortunates who live in a nether-world somewhere in the mists around the Temple of Sophia who express the changing passions of the Moon and do Her work in the pain of the World facing the horrors that even the imagination of Clive Barker cannot fathom. :bow:


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## philosobear (Aug 6, 2006)

It is a good point you make, Reverend. I came to sexual energy practices through a certain airport bookshop sex manual, which, whilst mostly adequate on a practical level, conveniently ommitted to point out that the whole thing was in fact a spiritual practice that would force me to take a hell of a lot more responsibility for myself, and would change me and my relationships, or else grind to a messy halt. I had to find that out for my self!

I am not dismayed...it wouldn't make any sense otherwise...but the task of changing one's life is so much broader and deeper than pulling off a few tricks in bed, and I don't really think the two are separable!


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## Obesus (Aug 6, 2006)

You hit the nail on the head and spoke from experience...that's such a good thing!
Some folks are just born very sensitive to the energy of life, some folks learn it through martial arts practice, odd little books at the airport or in the most unexpected ways possible....but it is all good! I think the hardest thing to learn about the lifeforce is that we can speak of "controlling" it, but that it really runs the show! It is when we learn to just trust it and let it do its' thing, that the magic really starts flying. One of my works on this planet is to teach that kind of radical trust, since there is not a whole lot of that around...but, I can speak from experience to that, right along with you! I hold out some perkitude with the concept that fat folk and men, specifically, can get into this through interest in martial arts, sexuality, self-acceptance and potential enhancement....because it does all that and it also teaches that size doesn't really matter...it is the energy in the person that you are talking to...the "spirit" in a sense, that makes the difference. We can all work on that, regardless of size...so this encourages a size-democracy! 

You are absolutely correct that the lifeforce manifests for most of us as either sexuality or aggressive, martial motion...Venus and Mars...and those two are connected at such deeper levels...and there is no part of life separate from the Lifeforce...so the sexual aspect is certainly a good place to start for many. The problem lies in the obsessive quality that many of us have around sex. That is certainly fed by our culture's mass-obsessions and it is heightened by the Western Control Fetish...i.e. the idea of controlling Nature at all costs, including human nature...which is, of course, a scary thing! This is something that conjoins with so much complexity, but it is belied by the simplicity of just sitting mindfully and feeling the energy circulate....there is _so_ much here!



philosobear said:


> It is a good point you make, Reverend. I came to sexual energy practices through a certain airport bookshop sex manual, which, whilst mostly adequate on a practical level, conveniently ommitted to point out that the whole thing was in fact a spiritual practice that would force me to take a hell of a lot more responsibility for myself, and would change me and my relationships, or else grind to a messy halt. I had to find that out for my self!
> 
> I am not dismayed...it wouldn't make any sense otherwise...but the task of changing one's life is so much broader and deeper than pulling off a few tricks in bed, and I don't really think the two are separable!


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## steely (Aug 7, 2006)

Just to let you know I'm still reading and enjoying and striving to understand this thread.I like the way it sounds.


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## FitChick (Aug 7, 2006)

I want a Biker Hotei statue. One that has Hotei with shades, a goatee and a hairy belly with some nice tats.


A big hairy belly on a man has got to be the sexiest thing I can think of. To me its a sign of genuine masculinity, though I don't know why I feel that way!


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## philosobear (Aug 8, 2006)

'the hardest thing to learn about the lifeforce is that we can speak of "controlling" it, but that it really runs the show!'

I think it's that point of letting go and letting the energy move as it will is the where I have been stuck...in particular, it is easy enough to shoot energy up the back channel at will, but the circling of the energy in the head, and the falling of what you call the 'dew' down through the front channel are things that just don't seem to be possible to force. The only thing that seems to work is bare attention on the energy until it finally settles itself. Thanks for the pointer. 

'it is the energy in the person that you are talking to...' ...sometimes, just sometimes, it is possible to percieve how speech is really patterns of energy. When I work out what this means for the whole terrifying world of post-structuralism, I'll be able to nail what I think's wrong with it!

In the meantime it is true, and it makes such a difference to know this. I think working with your own energy, within whatever framework, is such a powerful way to re-make a relationship with your own body. I think this could be a gift for people who are of a size and shape that has singled them out for even more body-grabbing, dehumanizing control tactics. I'm only just realizing how badly people who are born big can be treated, and how easy a ride I've had as someone who's never been more than a bit podgy. The direct connection with your physical self, the wonder and pleasure of feeling life moving within you. It could give your body back, whatever battles you've been caught up in thus far.


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## Obesus (Aug 9, 2006)

There is a lot going on here and in the Tantric Teaching Thread, but it basically all boils down to one question...who are we, really...? Each person will answer that from their own perspective, but the essence of the traditional answers is that we are much more than the flesh and bones we are usually aware of...and most traditions honor the bones and the flesh very highly as the masterwork of the creative intelligence of the cosmos...we are just looking at the "beyond flesh and bones" part....the energy which creates, preserves and finally destroys life at the end of its' course and then moves on to the next adventure! It is a grand story and one that the Fat Holy Man enjoys telling and hearing about very much! :bow: 



steely said:


> Just to let you know I'm still reading and enjoying and striving to understand this thread.I like the way it sounds.


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## Obesus (Aug 9, 2006)

I am thinking of "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" which is still a classic and great book! California has pretty much wall-to-wall fat Zen bikers and my favorites are a group of lads in a motorcycle club called "The Bavarian Illuminati"....awesome....just think of all them Bavarian Cream Pies!  I am sure that somewhere in this great state, some artiste' has created a biker Hotei....I just know it! :bow: 





FitChick said:


> I want a Biker Hotei statue. One that has Hotei with shades, a goatee and a hairy belly with some nice tats.
> 
> 
> A big hairy belly on a man has got to be the sexiest thing I can think of. To me its a sign of genuine masculinity, though I don't know why I feel that way!


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## Obesus (Aug 9, 2006)

...the letting go part is so hard because it demands several things that we are not used to doing in our culture....trusting something that we cannot control to operate in our best interest....it is a radical trust and demands the highest sacrifice we can make...surrender...literally giving up our sense of control and letting the energy make its' own decisions...it may not even circulate within your own body, but may choose to use your body as a base of operations and then move at a distance for purposes unknown. 
The Fall of Dew is the gentlest, most beautiful thing possible in this world...it operates on pure love and pure motive...it is joy and ecstasis defined...there is really no pressing need to practice sexually to reach this stage...it can be done by the individual practitioner with patience, love and trust for the process...but sexuality enhances it a thousand-fold with the right partner. There lies the rub...the rightly tuned and energy-filled partner is a rare and unusual gift of the Cosmos...it just doesn't happen very often and it may take lifetimes to find that person...if you have found an actively, consciously practising partner in this lifetime, then consider yourself blessed and favored of the Goddess!
Yes...absolutely, this is a way back into your body, for those fat folk who have fled in terror and do not feel comfortable in their own skin. It is high time we started finding paths back into our flesh and honoring it as was done in the traditional cultures and spiritualities of the past. :bow: 
Thank you so much for your insights and excellent points...it is always a wonderful thing to find anyone else who has even the slightest glimmer of this, much less a developed sense...good on ye! :bow: 



philosobear said:


> 'the hardest thing to learn about the lifeforce is that we can speak of "controlling" it, but that it really runs the show!'
> 
> I think it's that point of letting go and letting the energy move as it will is the where I have been stuck...in particular, it is easy enough to shoot energy up the back channel at will, but the circling of the energy in the head, and the falling of what you call the 'dew' down through the front channel are things that just don't seem to be possible to force. The only thing that seems to work is bare attention on the energy until it finally settles itself. Thanks for the pointer.
> 
> ...


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## Obesus (Aug 10, 2006)

...one of the greatest in Japan, who had never lost a match. One time though, his confidence was shaken right before one of the biggest matches of his life. In a quandry and confused, he visited the Roshi or Zen Master and asked him what to do to regain his poise and confidence. The Roshi told him to go to the Zendo (meditation hall) and to meditate upon the ocean waves until morning. At first, the great Sumo was agitated and could hardly sit still, but as he began to calm his breath and feel the part of his belly three finders below the navel, where all force emanates from, he felt calmer and calmer. As he continued to meditate upon the waves and the ocean, he slowly but surely began to feel the power of the waves and the inexorable force with which they hit the shoreline. By morning, he could not tell the difference between himself and the power of the ocean. He went against the opponent that he had feared so much and won the match easily.
Thanks to "Zen Flesh, Zen Bones" by Paul Reps, from which I paraphrased this little story....:bow:


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## Obesus (Aug 11, 2006)

....that makes Hotei so full of laughter is really based on the insight and ther reality that all life is grounded in the infinite and never really passes away...there is no sense of "I" and "You"....everyone and everything is the same One which exists eternally...there is eternal giving and receiving and the circling of all energy and force...and that is why the circle is the ultimate symbol of the infinite...and the reason that ever-so-round Hotei always laughs! :bow:


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## Obesus (Aug 11, 2006)

... from having practised and experienced and lived the life of the eccentric fat holy man, standing firm as a mountain on the flat plains and high places in the ice, laughing and pointing at the Moon...how alike they are under the blue light of the stars....:bow:


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## steely (Aug 11, 2006)

Obesus said:


> ... from having practised and experienced and lived the life of the eccentric fat holy man, standing firm as a mountain on the flat plains and high places in the ice, laughing and pointing at the Moon...how alike they are under the blue light of the stars....:bow:



Your words are so joyful they make me want to weep.


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## Obesus (Aug 13, 2006)

That is a very moving and joyful thing that you are saying! 
One thing I really want to communicate in this thread is that fat men can connect with the World in social, community, creative and spiritual ways that are unique and fulfilling in our own way! There is a very very long tradition of fat holy men and fat men of spirit and I think that right there is something to celebrate. 
I don't know if we are all aware, but I work for a substance abuse agency and we celebrate every holiday possible, because a lot of the folks who have come to us for help have lost the ability to celebrate and enjoy life and that is something we want to model and encourage for everyone...so this thread is also a celebration of fat men and the folks who love them! 
The Reverend Elder Mech aka Obesus :bow: 



steely said:


> Your words are so joyful they make me want to weep.


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## steely (Aug 14, 2006)

Thank you!I love to read your posts. 
Keep it coming!


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## Obesus (Aug 17, 2006)

.....walking up the mountains through the pines and high snowy alpine meadows, relecting on the voidness that is yet full....paradoxes swimming and darting through his mind, laughing and smiling at the great secrets that are openly displayed all around us, if we only knew where and how to look. The alchemists said that the Great Secret is hidden out in the open all around us...children play with it and the Wise see it even in the lowest and most humble of all things. The Fat Holy Man descends to the level plains again and begs delicious little donuts to feed the children in the villages and to show them the delight and magic all around them....:bow:


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## steely (Aug 17, 2006)

Enchanting:bow:


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## Obesus (Aug 19, 2006)

One of the reasons that the figure of Hotei resonates so personally and deeply for me, besides his belly, is his response to the enlightenment experience...uprorious laughter, then silence for the rest of his life. That is the most appropriate response possible. The experience is so overwhelming, even if you have been well prepared for it, that many have the opposite reaction and lose touch with the here and now or become damaged. It is not automatic that you suddenly become a master of life once you see the heart of reality. Some, take decades to slowly heal from their illumination and some never heal at all. That is why there is such secrecy and care around revealing the roads to the top of the mountain. My own experience was one of cosmic terror and disorientation and what ironically brought me back was contact with the very same concept in the works of H.P.Lovecraft...who intuitively sensed that not all is light and dandy in the center of the Cosmos. Looking at the dark side of cosmology with Edgar Allen Poe's magnificent cosmological system and Lovecraft's cosmic terror, taught me a sense of respect for the vastness of Infinity and the indifference of the Absolute that has returned me finally to a fascination with the interior life after avoidance for many years...that and my love for the strange mysteries of the Babylonian cosmogenesis and the Megalith Builders....Hotei has some strange company on the road! :bow:


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## tankgirl (Aug 19, 2006)

Hmmm.
Seems to me, to paraphrase some of this:
Laughter is, was, and probably always will be the greatest medicine/way to relax.
To just let go and take responsibility for life the way it stands is very Zen.
Either laugh or cry; it's your choice the rest of your life.
There is power in meditation on the chakra of the body.
It's not all good; but laugh about it, and respect it. Some of those might be hurtful.
And I lost the rest.... Too much inner thought at the moment.

Life seems to me like driving. Avoid the assholes and the accidents (and the accidents waiting to happen), slow down for construction, and don't drive like the people you don't like to have on the same road as you. On the other hand, be as courteous as possible, if only to avoid an accident. And think fast. If you can't stop or turn fast (or slow) enough, you'll never make it.

That was.... hmmm. I think that was almost insightful.

(just... trying to understand the things I want to know... Zen ways are among them. I'm rebuilding my life, piece by piece, one day at a time... and I'm open to ideas.... within _my_ boundaries, for once.... I am not a blade of grass to be blown about by the wind!! (thanks Valkyrie Profile))


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## Slowfuse (Aug 20, 2006)

I'm new to the site, and find your thread very informative! Just wanted to say "thanks".


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## philosobear (Aug 21, 2006)

Dear Obesus, (after a bit of a gap). Yeah, it is a pretty radical step, this trust in life and in the body in particular...but the alternative is and very limiting. That agony of responsibility and indescision...the need to make choices, and yet being stuck in a part of oneself that is particularly ill equipped to do so- the objectified, rational mind. All I can say is I'll go forward, and see where letting go leads....likewise, very good to have someone to talk to about this...


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## Obesus (Aug 22, 2006)

....in the spiritual world agrees that the essential key is to really be in the place where you are at right now and right here...not over there in three hours from now or two days ago or twenty years from now on the next continent over...but right in the moment where you are and it is so hard, because that is very often a very painful place to be. The miracle of the whole thing is that once you do calm, breathe and refocus and just realize where you are at, that resources do actually open up and hidden possibilities that were right inside of you all the time have a chance to emerge. One of the baffling traditions in zendos or meditation halls is that when the head monk sees someone obviously falling away from being present right now in the here and now...and you can tell by posture and body language very easily...they go over and give that person a smart whack on the shoulder to focus them the heck up! The whackee then stands and bows in deep gratitude...sometimes it takes a little reminding! 
At the mental health clinic where I work, it is not unusual for our clients to come in with their minds all over the map...that is why they are there in the first place! We do a few minutes of relaxing, focusing and mindfulness and things usually simmer down to the point where we can begin to talk and find out what is really going on. Mindfulness practice is slowly becoming a standard tool, thanks to Marsha Linehan from the University of Washington and a lot of her inspiration comes from the little book by Thich Nhat Hanh, "The Miracle of Mindfulness." Thich is a Vietnamese Zen monk who started his work with the "Socially Engaged" school of Buddhism during the War...his life story is amazing and worth looking up. Thich is very fond of the "Half-Smile" technique which is all about being present and seeing the humor in each and every situation....that right there is an awesome thing!
You have some really good and useful insights...I love the "avoid accidents waiting to happen part!" Righteous! :bow: 



tankgirl said:


> Hmmm.
> Seems to me, to paraphrase some of this:
> Laughter is, was, and probably always will be the greatest medicine/way to relax.
> To just let go and take responsibility for life the way it stands is very Zen.
> ...


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## Obesus (Aug 22, 2006)

I think one of the great things about the BHM board is that folks around this place are receptive to thought and philosophy that makes our community a richer place! Being a fat man or someone who loves a fat man is not alwyas a terribly easy experience and it is useful to have as many tools to work with this life as possible. It is easy to become isolated, depressed or hopeless and that is what we all need to fight by replacing it with a bit of humor, community and celebration! :bow: 



Slowfuse said:


> I'm new to the site, and find your thread very informative! Just wanted to say "thanks".


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## Obesus (Aug 22, 2006)

...and it is just so hard to trust anyone or anything in world where we have absolutely no certainty. Indecision though, usually vanishes once there is a sense of connectedness with the core and the mindfulness is there, spot on. It is important to realize that very often we are actually struggling with moral decisions that are not actually our own, but that belong to another time and place and were just left hanging around....I faced that for decades with my spiritual practice and it took so long to just realize that everyone who teaches any kind of spiritual practice usually has some kind of personal orientation and you have to weed their own prejudices out in order to find your own Locus Solis..your own place in the Sun....we are always hanging around the Mountain of the Philosophers waiting for a good talk...Temple of Sophia, twenty second alcove over on the left there, where all the dogs and bunnies are marching in close order drill!  Watch out for the Temple Goddesses though...they are tough but nice to take a walk with, under the Moon!  



philosobear said:


> Dear Obesus, (after a bit of a gap). Yeah, it is a pretty radical step, this trust in life and in the body in particular...but the alternative is and very limiting. That agony of responsibility and indescision...the need to make choices, and yet being stuck in a part of oneself that is particularly ill equipped to do so- the objectified, rational mind. All I can say is I'll go forward, and see where letting go leads....likewise, very good to have someone to talk to about this...


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## Obesus (Aug 22, 2006)

The "accidents waiting to happen" thing just stuck with me this morning and I think it strongly iluminated a situation I am facing...muchas gracias!  :bow: 



tankgirl said:


> Hmmm.
> Life is to me like driving. Avoid the assholes and the accidents (and the accidents waiting to happen), slow down for construction, and don't drive like the people you don't like to have on the same road as you. On the other hand, be as courteous as possible, if only to avoid an accident. And think fast. If you can't stop or turn fast (or slow) enough, you'll never make it.


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## Obesus (Aug 27, 2006)

...after a refreshing cleansing and purifying of the Fat Holy Man thread...the core idea of Hotei as a real person and as a symbol is the spontaneous and sudden realization of the Truth of Reality. of course, it usually takes years of careful, disciplined and patient meditation practice to achieve the sponteneity but it can and does happen when least expected and will knock your socks off regardless of how much preparation you put into it. That is the reason that spiritual traditions develop elaborate philosophical systems to attempt to prepare the meditator for what lies at the key moment. Robert Anton Wilson, author of "Illuminatus", calls it "Chapel Perilous"...the place from the Holy Grail stories where everything in the world is turned upside down and inside out. That is an apt description and excellent metaphor for what the experience is actually like. Hotei's smile is based on the reality that there really is no end or limit to life and that is as how it should be! :bow:


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## Obesus (Aug 31, 2006)

It seems to me that it is precisely the tension between our ideas of what constitutes the holy life and the solidly and jiggly reality of the fat holy man's oh-so-abundant flesh that underlies some of the power of the Hotei image for us. We assume that to be "Holy" means a mortification of the flesh and a denial of the bodily urges, especially hunger and sexuality. The fat holy man stands as living example that the reconciliation of opposites lies at the very heart of the matter and that we can never assume such broad concepts without the danger of reducing them to caricatures. There is Mystery afoot with this and the Mysteries can, by definition, never be reduced to the rational or commonplace...they exist in another dimension of Being!


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## Obesus (Sep 4, 2006)

...the Androgyne...the conjunction of opposites...the being who collects all of the multiplicitous and conflicting pieces of gender and personality and puts them together into a whole. The Fat Holy Man is both All-father and All-mother, acting as an alchemical Rebis, the primordial hermaphrodite who holds the Philosopher's stone. There is completion and a sense of connection to the Ultimate in the androgyny of the Fat Holy Man. Hotei stands as a figure as much female as male, much as is Kwan Yin, the healing goddess; who is nominally female, but always depicted with male attributes. I am reminded of H. Spencer Lewis, Paramahansa Yogananda (Both of whose organizations I have studied with for most of my life) and the other Fat Holy Men I have known and respected and have come to realize that they all had this quality of combining opposites into a peaceful whole. :bow: 
The painting is by Jean Delville...turn of the 19th Century..depicting Sar Josephin Peladan as the Imperator of the Rosicrucian Order. Peladan turned the torch of the Order over to H.Spencer Lewis around 1908.


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## Obesus (Sep 13, 2006)

....literally, being outside the place where one is at...out of one's mind with joy and happiness...out of your skull...shamans, yogis and fakirs are experts in the ancient arts of ecstasis and it is their state of self-fulfilled conjunction of opposites that ecstasis emerges as the path of the flesh into the voidness and suchness of the Absolute. That is Hotei's joy...to be beyond all opposites in a state of permanent ecstasis...bringing joy to all around him by infectious glee and a touch of the lifeforce spilling over...the transmission of the Light is called darshan in India, but it has names in Sufism, Taoism, Buddhism...they all have the ancient arts intact and still use them...in the West it is much more rare, hence far more precious when it happens...:bow:


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## Mr. 23 (Sep 16, 2006)

Interesting thread. Difficult to take in all at once.


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## Mr. 23 (Sep 17, 2006)

BellyQueen said:


> Does any one believe our bellies are our second brain and our bellies are our spiritual center?:eat2:



Yeah, this is from wayyyy up in the thread.

Oddly I was thinking almost the same thing tonight, after stuffing my belly full. I was thinking that my belly almost felt conscious. But not quite.

I've been noticing this feeling more and more lately, and it's odd and difficult to describe in words. I feel it most strongly when I am a little over-full, when my belly feels stretched forward and heavy (comparatively speaking). And the funny thing about this feeling is that it's nothing I seem to be able to cause deliberately. It just happens. So it seems.

Needless to say, I didn't feel this sensation when I was thinner, but now that I'm a little chubbier I do feel it. And it seems the more often I experience the feeling, the more I want to feel it again. Which in turn leads to me eating too much, consciously or not, more and more often. 

Naturally, I'm curious, has this happened to anyone else?


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## Obesus (Sep 17, 2006)

Thanks for the nod! The thread used to be populated with zillions of Hotei images, but I pulled one of my Milarepa moments. Every once in awhile, I rip all of the images off all of my postings and start out fresh, rebuilding my whole vision of what it means to be fat. The reason that I call it a "Milarepa" moment is that he is the Tibetan saint who was instructed by his Guru to keep building, tearing down and rebuilding his stone hut over and over and over again, until he got the point that we all do that with our bodies from incarnation to incarnation...it finally worked. I guess that story just made a huge impression upon me, because I still do that with all of my work.
Welcome to this strange and soon to be visual thread! :bow: 






Mr. 23 said:


> Interesting thread. Difficult to take in all at once.


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## Obesus (Sep 17, 2006)

There is some thought that around the year 2,500 BC, roughly the Megalthic Era, on the Island of Malta and perhaps other areas of North Africa and the Mediterranean, that it was the practice to stuff Oracles into a state of dreamy and hypnogogic borderland consciousness. Every year, around Thanksgiving, we tend to do the same thing as a nation, although we rarely ponder on the spiritual background of it and some of us have figured out that it can be done as part of the daily, weekly or monthly ritual, depending upon our desires. It is most real and involves a lot of bichemical and electrical changes within the body, all triggered by the overstaffage. I have even used this in Performance Art in the past and may do so again...one never knows! :bow: 
Welcome to the club!



Mr. 23 said:


> Yeah, this is from wayyyy up in the thread.
> 
> Oddly I was thinking almost the same thing tonight, after stuffing my belly full. I was thinking that my belly almost felt conscious. But not quite.
> 
> ...


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## Mr. 23 (Sep 18, 2006)

Obesus said:


> ...it was the practice to stuff Oracles into a state of dreamy and hypnogogic borderland consciousness.... It is most real and involves a lot of bichemical and electrical changes within the body, all triggered by the overstaffage. I have even used this in Performance Art in the past and may do so again...one never knows! :bow:
> Welcome to the club!



If I had known that I was messing with this sort of power, I'd have stayed away after my first experience with it. I've got a healthy respect for the power that can be built up in ritual. But instead, I find out about this ritual/consciousness alteration _after_ I discover the feeling of a well-fed belly. Of course, now I'm hooked on the feeling of, for lack of a better term, "belly consciousness" ritual. At least I'm not some lone nut on this.

Hahaha! Welcome to the club, indeed! The only problem with the ritual of "eating too much then experiencing an altered consciousness," is that it is intermittent. You know, it doesn't work every time. Like some sort of Skinnerean conditioning trick I've inadvertantly pulled on myself. One needen't wonder too much what the outcome of it will likely be.

But at least I'm better informed about what's going on. And I'm quite relieved that I'm not the only person that has discovered this.


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## Obesus (Sep 19, 2006)

I mentioned an article by my friend, Jospeh Caezza, in Magical Blend magazine, about Fat Holy Men...it was a very early issue, but I imagine that I should attempt to get another copy while they are still available in xeroxed format...I lost the original in a move many years ago, but he brings the whole Fat Holy Man complex to vivid life and explains the concept of the belly as reservoir of the Lifeforce, purified by constant pranayama and alchemical processes. That may be the piece that you are missing that makes this a permanent feeling! Or not. :bow: 



Mr. 23 said:


> If I had known that I was messing with this sort of power, I'd have stayed away after my first experience with it. I've got a healthy respect for the power that can be built up in ritual. But instead, I find out about this ritual/consciousness alteration _after_ I discover the feeling of a well-fed belly. Of course, now I'm hooked on the feeling of, for lack of a better term, "belly consciousness" ritual. At least I'm not some lone nut on this.
> 
> Hahaha! Welcome to the club, indeed! The only problem with the ritual of "eating too much then experiencing an altered consciousness," is that it is intermittent. You know, it doesn't work every time. Like some sort of Skinnerean conditioning trick I've inadvertantly pulled on myself. One needen't wonder too much what the outcome of it will likely be.
> 
> But at least I'm better informed about what's going on. And I'm quite relieved that I'm not the only person that has discovered this.


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## Mr. 23 (Sep 19, 2006)

Obesus (I feel weird not saying Obese--I'll explain),

I read your mention of the Magic Blend article earlier in the thread. I think it could be interesting to read and dwell on, because I think it could make me more mindful while overeating. Being more mindful, of course, may help me out all on its own.

After all, if I'm going to eat this way, I might as well make it as effective as I can. I know that this sensation has changed my mind about my growing belly. I no longer feel ambivalent about it, but instead fully accepting (if not outright anticipating further growth). Funny what a thing like this can do, and how hard it is to talk about. It's almost easier to talk around it.

By the way, do you happen to have ancient sources for the Maltese oracle? If it's Greek (as I strongly suspect), I'd like details about where I could track down a translation. But if it's Latin, the name of the work and it's author would be enough (Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes. Et bene lego.).


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## Obesus (Sep 19, 2006)

The mention of your classical studies brings an interesting thing to light for the first time in my seven years of being here on the boards...my nickname, "Obesus", is based on the Etruscan tomb statues, the "Obesi", which depict the obese departed men reclining on the top of a sarcophagus, holding their stomachs! Lord Kenneth Clark mentions them in his book: "The Nude: A Study in Ideal Form" and it stuck with me all of this years. (I am studied in Medieval and Renaissance Art History!)
Now, I will re-secure the Magical Blend issue, since I think it has no small interest...I lost touch with Joseph many years ago and don't have his address, so it will be a matter of ordering it from Magical Blend...no problemo!
I might also add that there is a ritualized aspect to the experience...a theatrical element, so to speak, around the eating experience...I will discuss this later, in the context of Aleister Crowley's "De Arte Magica" which goes into some small detail in the matter.
My sole reference for the Malta Oracle is Jean McMann's "Riddles of the Stone Age"...Thames & Hudson...just a single line and it is completely conjectural, but in line with my other occultist researches, it just _feels_ right...I could be totally off, but we are creating the egregore now, so it matters not! There are no ancient sources that I am aware of for the article, unfotunately. Sigh. We shall discuss more in time and place! Thanks for bringing this up! :bow: 



Mr. 23 said:


> Obesus (I feel weird not saying Obese--I'll explain),
> 
> I read your mention of the Magic Blend article earlier in the thread. I think it could be interesting to read and dwell on, because I think it could make me more mindful while overeating. Being more mindful, of course, may help me out all on its own.
> 
> ...


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## Obesus (Oct 5, 2006)

The shaman combines the feminine and masculine into a powerfully focused machine for ecstasis and the journey to the realms of the invisible worlds. The rule of the shaman's life is that the Shaman must shamanize or the energies turn back upon them. My favorite Shaman, the German Fluxus and Conceptual artist, Josef Beuys is an excellent role-model for the life of ecstatic union with the hidden ones! :bow: Oh, the fat part...almost forgot..anchor in the world to both hold the energy and to amplify it to orbit levels...:bow:


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## lucyp (Oct 7, 2006)

Obesus said:


> Some folks are just born very sensitive to the energy of life, some folks learn it through martial arts practice, odd little books at the airport or in the most unexpected ways possible....but it is all good! I think the hardest thing to learn about the lifeforce is that we can speak of "controlling" it, but that it really runs the show! It is when we learn to just trust it and let it do its' thing, that the magic really starts flying. One of my works on this planet is to teach that kind of radical trust, since there is not a whole lot of that around...but, I can speak from experience to that, right along with you! I hold out some perkitude with the concept that fat folk and men, specifically, can get into this through interest in martial arts, sexuality, self-acceptance and potential enhancement....because it does all that and it also teaches that size doesn't really matter...it is the energy in the person that you are talking to...the "spirit" in a sense, that makes the difference.



This bit caught my eye and made me remember. Back when my BHM husband was doing martial arts, I could not keep my eyes off him, thought he was just amazing to watch. One day I went to a event thingie with him and several other schools and he was going to spar against someone, and as I was watching from the sidelines and he walked out to the mat when his name was called, the person next to me said 'Who is *that* guy?' with this expression of awe. All my husband had done at that point was walk out onto the mat, but he did it so amazingly awesomely, all focus. It wasn't just me who saw it (which made me laugh, I'd thought it was because I was soppily in love). ...I don't even remember if he won that particular bout. He did do very well that day though. 

He doesn't do martial arts any more, but he's still got all the focus, just for other things at the moment.


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## estrata (Oct 7, 2006)

All I can say is that I've started Tai Chi recently and our teacher keeps telling us to breath from our Dan Tien (wrong spelling I'm sure!). It's two inches below the belly button, and it is one of the most important points of the body. Anyway, I have found that I have this area very tensed up, and I can't breath from there unless I release it. Im very thin, and though I would like to gain a mixture of self consciousness and medical problems (and husbands) prevent me. I think my self consciousness has made me afraid to release these muscles in my stomach, as if I would become vulnerable somehow by doing it  open to criticism, etc.... I suppose it is akin to the problems people have when finally allowing themselves to gain, but here I'm just untensing my tummy muscles! I guess it's a little of "letting onself go". I find that when I work up the courage to release these muscles (allowing my teeny tiny belly to go into its natural, untensed state), I feel calm, and a bit closer to that yogic self-awareness. Almost a different state of mind, a bit closer to the laughing Buddha! ^_^ But my Western societal training quickly reasserts itself when I stop paying attention, and I quickly tense up my stomach  and my "soul".


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## Obesus (Oct 11, 2006)

...spine like the shaft of a volcano...and when you walk, the earth must shake! The belly contains an entire furnace for heating and circulating refined forms of the Chi...and it is good to give it a good draft of air with breath and it needs to be loose in order for circulation of the three currents to happen...it just takes time and the realization that the body is connected to the vastness of space and infinity...I catch myself being tight in the belly too...but then I change my breath, re-focus and practice my mindfulness of where I am really at...it works and it is mostly just forming the habit of being mindful in order to really relax the Chi...and the belly! :bow: 



estrata said:


> All I can say is that I've started Tai Chi recently and our teacher keeps telling us to breath from our Dan Tien (wrong spelling I'm sure!). It's two inches below the belly button, and it is one of the most important points of the body. Anyway, I have found that I have this area very tensed up, and I can't breath from there unless I release it. Im very thin, and though I would like to gain a mixture of self consciousness and medical problems (and husbands) prevent me. I think my self consciousness has made me afraid to release these muscles in my stomach, as if I would become vulnerable somehow by doing it  open to criticism, etc.... I suppose it is akin to the problems people have when finally allowing themselves to gain, but here I'm just untensing my tummy muscles! I guess it's a little of "letting onself go". I find that when I work up the courage to release these muscles (allowing my teeny tiny belly to go into its natural, untensed state), I feel calm, and a bit closer to that yogic self-awareness. Almost a different state of mind, a bit closer to the laughing Buddha! ^_^ But my Western societal training quickly reasserts itself when I stop paying attention, and I quickly tense up my stomach  and my "soul".


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## Obesus (Nov 20, 2006)

Simon's new book, "Gates of the Necronomicon" has a magnificent introductory chapter on the concept of reality being the preserve of the King, the one who measures. Anyone who wanders outside of the measured realms of the king becomes one with the magical worlds of the Astral...yet another way to explain the wildly eccentric figure of Hotei..a monk who wanders so far outside the lines of the established order that he defines new realities with each step...Hotei, as we have seen, is also a figure of intensely magnified and purified lifeforce...a healer and intiator into the forbidden realms of the Astral...I just discovered tonight that his huge spare-tyre belly is referred to in China as the "Bara-belly"...what we have called the furnace of Baraka as it is known in Arabic...the lifeforce intensified...Simon also makes an interesting point for the return of the Tantric Thread...true love occurs only outside of the political, social and financial lines that define marriage..it is, like the Tantra itself, subversive to reality and based on the defiance of the Spirit in the face of the walking death that we call "life"...Hotei laughs through it all, his bag of donuts for the little children firmly on his shoulder as he walks through the insanity of the Black Iron Prison all around him! :bow:


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## zonker (Nov 20, 2006)

I love this thread. It is just so rich in thought and feeling (and information)... Thanks, Obesus, for all you've done here. You should devote a website to this... or maybe write a book.

Z


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## missaf (Nov 21, 2006)

Obe's given me a Hotei collection here in this thread, I love it!


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## Qit el-Remel (Nov 21, 2006)

I once described an ex-lover as looking like a "WASP skater Ho-Tei." It was meant in a completely complimentary fashion.

-Qit


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## Obesus (Jan 1, 2007)

I thought this little blurb was just perfect for the New Year, which I believe will be a breakthrough year for many...there is a feeling of positive change afoot! I hope this will inspire us to explore spirit and emulate the generosity and humor of this great Buddhist saint during the coming year:

http://www.uwec.edu/philrel/shimbutsudo/hotei.html


" Hotei is one of the Seven Lucky Gods, or Shichi Fukujin, of Japan. (The others are Daikoku, Ebisu, Bishamonten, Benzaiten (or Benten), Ebisu, Fukurokuju, Jurojin.) He is known as the God of Happiness, a patron of children, fortunetellers, bartenders, and politicians. According to Juliet Piggott, author of The Beliefs & Deities of Japan, his appearance is of a big, fat, bald man. He is often smiling and has bristly whiskers around his face. The fat stomach, which protrudes from the robes he wears, symbolizes the largeness of his soul. Reiko Chiba, author of The Seven Lucky Gods of Japan, adds that he is also seen carrying a large bag over his shoulder that is said to contain gifts and fortunes for those who believe in his virtues. 

Hotei stands out from the other six Lucky Gods because he is the only one known to have been a real person, rather than a mythical being. According to Chiba, his Chinese name was Kaishi. His birth date is unknown, but his date of death was in March of the year 916. He was a Zen priest who could quote Buddhist text verses almost nonstop. Some sources affirm that he was an incarnation of the Bodhisattva Miroku (Maitreya in Sanskrit), the Buddhist Savior of the Future (Giraud 404). However, some of his actions would not be considered particularly saintly. For example, he would beg for meat and fish even though they were foods forbidden to priests. Presumably, he thought it unnecessary to abide by the restrictions that lesser mortals need to guide their lives. Hotei also looked like a rogue and had no regular place to stay or sleep. It is said that once he slept outside during a snowstorm, and people were amazed when he did not get cold or wet (Chiba 21). 

According to legend, Hotei is also a fortuneteller whose predictions always come true. The only catch is that he will not tell the future to any person who does not sincerely affirm a desire to know the complete truth (Chiba 21). Sometimes, they may end up regretting their excessive curiosity. 

Hotei is often shown surrounded by a group of small children, romping and squealing in delight around his rotund shape. In addition, he has a reputation for giving gifts. There is a tradition, credited by many, that if a group of strangers gather together on New Year's Eve and ask Hotei for the same gift, provided they have strength of will and truly believe that he will grant it, Hotei will indeed give them what they ask for (Chiba, 22). Another custom is to place a drawing of Hotei, shown in a treasure boat along with the six other Lucky Gods, under one's pillow on the first night of January. The idea is to ensure that one's first dream of the new year will be an auspicious one."


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## Obesus (Jan 26, 2007)

...and his uprorious laughter...arise from his understanding of the experience of Enlightenment....he is often identified as the coming Buddha, Maitreya, since he represents the coming into mass-awareness of the Cosmic and the Infinite. Common mindsets are often a couple of Centuries behind the shattering revelations of what T.S. Kuhn calls "paradigm-shifts" (The Structure of Scientific Revolutions, Univ. of Chicago)....Copernicus sparked one such shift, Einstein another. How many people on the street actually understand even a tiny fraction of what Einstein really meant, much less the more abstruse theories of Quantum Gravity, String Theory and M-Space? Surely enough, fueled by the Internet revolution and a string of technological changes, cosmic understanding at a visceral level will be upon us faster than anyone can imagine...the moment when the first strong Artifical Intelligence emerges will be an explosive change in the very idea of what it is to be a human in an infinite Universe. Hotei stands there laughing with compassion and understanding. Could we imagine a better or more calming and foundational image for a World soon to go through staggering changes?


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## Obesus (Jun 27, 2007)

I was shocked that it has been five months since last I posted to this world of Hotei...but the spiritual essence of the Fat Holy Man is, after all, irrepressible! 

I have always thought that part of the slowly evolving sense of community here is a sense of spirituality specific to our experiences and I know that we have posted before with our friend Philosobear on such topics...while they may seem foreign to most, it is a long and well-honored tradition that many Holy Men are, indeed, _fat_ and that as my friend Joseph Caezza has opined, there is a special relationship between fat, the Lifeforce, control of the Lifeforce and spiritual mastery. Being fat is also a way to approach the Holy and Numinous from another direction, since it does bring us to many realizations in life. Being fat is a multi-faceted experience and it is vital that we stop every once in awhile to ponder the deeper social, philosophical, magical and spiritual aspects of that experience.

Part of the reason for my posting is contiguous with resumed work on the Obesonomicon...which took a few false starts to really get into context...in that book, I will be going into some depth on magic and the fat man in particular and I sure that large parts of that will wind up right here or on the Tantric Teaching Thread....from the Vale of San Francisco in the hills overlooking Twin Peaks from the South! 
Salutem Punctis Trianguli! :bow: Obe


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