# Do you ever wonder...



## olwen (Aug 20, 2011)

The other day in the locker room of the gym I was getting ready to shower and I grabbed four towels as I always do. They're just so effing small. That's just how many I need to wrap around my body. I walked toward the showers and I saw a much smaller woman who had one towel wrapped around her entire body and it seemed incredibly strange to me that anyone could get such a tiny towel around their whole torso. This happens every time I'm at the gym. How could something so small fit around a person? I did recognize the irony in how some skinny woman would think the same thing about how many of those ridiculously tiny towels I need to fit around me. It's not just towels tho, it's any space or thing that I can't fit into that skinny people can. So then I started wondering if other fat people wonder the same thing. 

So how bout it, do you?


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## Jes (Aug 20, 2011)

olwen said:


> The other day in the locker room of the gym I was getting ready to shower and I grabbed four towels as I always do. They're just so effing small. That's just how many I need to wrap around my body. I walked toward the showers and I saw a much smaller woman who had one towel wrapped around her entire body and it seemed incredibly strange to me that anyone could get such a tiny towel around their whole torso. This happens every time I'm at the gym. How could something so small fit around a person? I did recognize the irony in how some skinny woman would think the same thing about how many of those ridiculously tiny towels I need to fit around me. It's not just towels tho, it's any space or thing that I can't fit into that skinny people can. So then I started wondering if other fat people wonder the same thing.
> 
> So how bout it, do you?



I remember watching something on tv about women and size. a group of fat women sat in a circle and were given a length of rope. Each was asked to cut the rope to reflect her best guess as to the size of her waist, and then to place the rope in front of her in a circle.

Every fat woman made a circle far smaller than her actual waist.

I don't know if that's another form of body dysmorphic disorder. There are people who weigh 100 lbs. and might take that piece of rope and cut it to a length more suited to MY waist. 

I think we can be very out of touch with our bodies, the bodies of other people, etc. You know how many towels it takes to cover yourself, but it sounds like there's almost a kind of disorientation in looking at something different. You're right--some things thin/average people can do, spatially, can just seem so foreign to someone with a different body. And I think it's a very interesting topic.


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## CarlaSixx (Aug 20, 2011)

I'd totally guess too big for the rope thing. I have a mild body dysmorphia. One of my friends has it really bad, though. I know I have it because I can sit for hours staring at a mirror and pick at eeeverything that I think is wrong and seems totally noticeable to me, but others swear it isn't. And some days I do see myself wayyy huge, others I don't get how I can be huge when I see myself smaller. Either way is definitely a off-perception.

I used to swear the towels could not fit around me. But my skinny friends used to think the same. I could barely get a beach towel around me and my size 4 friend would feel the same. I thought that was always weird.

I often wonder if people see me as huge as I see myself. I often fear I'm too big for many things and think everyone else will notice it as well. I try not to let it completely take over me and all my actions, though, because I do know that a lot of it is just a skewed perception. But sometimes it's hard to get past it.


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## olwen (Aug 20, 2011)

Jes said:


> I remember watching something on tv about women and size. a group of fat women sat in a circle and were given a length of rope. Each was asked to cut the rope to reflect her best guess as to the size of her waist, and then to place the rope in front of her in a circle.
> 
> Every fat woman made a circle far smaller than her actual waist.
> 
> ...



That's interesting. I actually made a pair of leggings for myself. I ended up getting way too much fabric, and the length of elastic I needed for the waist was also too much even tho I know how many inches wide my waist is! I don't have enough elastic for another pair of leggings tho.

And yes, it is a sort of disorientation. I have to wonder too if I would feel less disoriented if I had ever been thin.


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## olwen (Aug 20, 2011)

CarlaSixx said:


> I'd totally guess too big for the rope thing. I have a mild body dysmorphia. One of my friends has it really bad, though. I know I have it because I can sit for hours staring at a mirror and pick at eeeverything that I think is wrong and seems totally noticeable to me, but others swear it isn't. And some days I do see myself wayyy huge, others I don't get how I can be huge when I see myself smaller. Either way is definitely a off-perception.
> 
> I used to swear the towels could not fit around me. But my skinny friends used to think the same. I could barely get a beach towel around me and my size 4 friend would feel the same. I thought that was always weird.
> 
> I often wonder if people see me as huge as I see myself. I often fear I'm too big for many things and think everyone else will notice it as well. I try not to let it completely take over me and all my actions, though, because I do know that a lot of it is just a skewed perception. But sometimes it's hard to get past it.



I think everybody goes thru that nitpicking to one degree or another. I think my chin is oddly angular for someone my size. Meh. 

I do think other people notice but I also think they don't get that we need more space. I'm most aware of it on the bus when someone tries to sit in the seat next to me. I know there isn't enough room and I will always stop the person before they sit. Some people don't want to listen tho and they sit anyway, realize they can't fit and get right back up. 

So then I have to wonder if they think they are smaller than they actually are or if they think I'm smaller than I actually am. It's an odd thing.


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## CarlaSixx (Aug 20, 2011)

I think the difference between body dysmorphic disorder and nitpicking is the degree it's at. I mean... I literally will sit with a mirror and criticize things that are, apparently, not there. And go to means to try and change/remove what I see as a problem, which doctors call "self harming." So it is more than just "ugh I wish my thighs were slimmer." For me, it's more like "my thighs are so huge they have this triangular thing going on..." and then grab at the piece I find wrong and try to physically rip it right off.


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## Lamia (Aug 20, 2011)

I have this problem to with perception, but oddly enough it's more with my height. I always think I am taller than I really am, but then I see pictures of myself standing next to someone and think wow I am short. The main problem is in some pictures I used to squat down to hide my body behind people so I look shorter than I really am, but this screwed up my perception even more. I am 5'7 1/4 per the doctor vist I just had and 412 lbs. I often will look at chairs or feel on the sides to see how much of my ass is hanging off of it and then when I get up I look at the chair to try to gage how fat my ass is. lol

I think I am smaller than I really am.


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## *Goofy*Girl* (Aug 20, 2011)

Yeah, I wonder about stuff like that too.
Like when I see a grown woman who's a size 0 or so with a teeny-tiny waist I'll think to myself, gee how do all of her internal organs fit into that tiny little body?

Then I'll think, oh, she probably has an eating disorder or something.


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## The Orange Mage (Aug 20, 2011)

*Goofy*Girl* said:


> Yeah, I wonder about stuff like that too.
> Like when I see a grown woman who's a size 0 or so with a teeny-tiny waist I'll think to myself, gee how do all of her internal organs fit into that tiny little body?
> 
> Then I'll think, oh, she probably has an eating disorder or something.



booooooooooo


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## *Goofy*Girl* (Aug 20, 2011)

The Orange Mage said:


> booooooooooo




Huh? What do you mean by booooooooo? LOL


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## olwen (Aug 20, 2011)

I think he means that it's bad to assume someone that skinny has an eating disorder. Just like it's bad to assume all fat people are horrible gluttons.

I also do wonder how a person can fit their organs into such a tiny space. Does that mean their organs are small or does it mean that mine are the same size but I can't tell cause of all the fat I have?


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## bettylulu (Aug 20, 2011)

olwen said:


> That's interesting. I actually made a pair of leggings for myself. I ended up getting way too much fabric, and the length of elastic I needed for the waist was also too much even tho I know how many inches wide my waist is! I don't have enough elastic for another pair of leggings tho.
> 
> And yes, it is a sort of disorientation. I have to wonder too if I would feel less disoriented if I had ever been thin.



I have this same problem when making skirts for myself. I have a book about drafting your own skirt patterns. It estimated the yardage for most of the skirts around 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 yards for "standard sizes" but gave no numbers of what those sizes were. I wear around a 20, so I kept buying 4 yards of fabric. I have no idea why I thought I would need that much more fabric for these little skirts. I could make each skirt twice. For most of them I used around 2 1/4 yards. I have so much fabric leftover. 

I have little concept of my size. I'm forever knocking things over and trying to squeeze through too-small spaces. Yet there are other times, like with the fabric that I think I am a meter wide.


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## Jes (Aug 20, 2011)

olwen said:


> I know there isn't enough room and I will always stop the person before they sit. .



i'm curious, so may I ask: why? Why do you always stop the person and say: you won't fit here?

I ask b/c that would never be my reaction in the same situation...


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## Jes (Aug 20, 2011)

bettylulu said:


> I have this same problem when making skirts for myself. I have a book about drafting your own skirt patterns. It estimated the yardage for most of the skirts around 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 yards for "standard sizes" but gave no numbers of what those sizes were. I wear around a 20, so I kept buying 4 yards of fabric. I have no idea why I thought I would need that much more fabric for these little skirts. I could make each skirt twice. For most of them I used around 2 1/4 yards. I have so much fabric leftover.
> .



It's interesting that you and Olwen have some sort of sewing knowledge and aim higher than needed (though, of course, you might also have the 'room to play' or 'in case i screw up and don't want to go back to the store' thing working as a decision-making factor) and that for the women on the tv program I saw, who had none, they far underestimated their size.


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## olwen (Aug 20, 2011)

Jes said:


> i'm curious, so may I ask: why? Why do you always stop the person and say: you won't fit here?
> 
> I ask b/c that would never be my reaction in the same situation...



Picture two people sitting like this: XoX The Xs are people and the o is an open seat. I take up a seat and a half. It's half a seat that's open. In a situation where someone tries to sit there, the bus is crowded, people are standing and often that's the only seat that doesn't have someone in it. Why anyone would think they could fit in half a seat I don't know. I don't want someone trying to squeeze into that space cause it means they literally elbow me, wiggle their hips rather violently trying to stuff themselves in there. It's uncomfortable and slightly embarrassing. I'd rather spare us both the discomfort. 

Most of the time I wave my hand and shake my head indicating they can't fit there. Some people get it and either try to find another seat or just stand. Some people don't and I have to say "you won't fit there." I admit tho that this tactic results in more embarrassment if the person decides to argue or call me names, or curse me out which sometimes happens, but better than than to have them try to sit there and fight me for space. 

What would your reaction be in that situation?

ETA: I just want to add, that I'm not even exaggerating about how people behave on the bus. People are just ruthless here when it comes to getting a seat on the bus or train. It often takes an hour to get where you're going especially if you live in the outer boroughs. Who wants to stand for an hour? I've seen old ladies gun it and shove people to get a seat.


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## olwen (Aug 20, 2011)

Jes said:


> It's interesting that you and Olwen have some sort of sewing knowledge and aim higher than needed (though, of course, you might also have the 'room to play' or 'in case i screw up and don't want to go back to the store' thing working as a decision-making factor) and that for the women on the tv program I saw, who had none, they far underestimated their size.



That I would mess up and need more fabric did factor into it. The bolts of fabric I got were 60 inches long. I actually only needed 2 yards of fabric, but only because the fabric had a print and had to find spots to match the print at the seams. Not knowing this, I bought 4 yards of fabric. I can probably make a skirt and a tank top with what's left. Now that I know how much fabric I need to make leggings I will only get two yards of fabric and that will include room to mess up.


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## AnnMarie (Aug 20, 2011)

olwen said:


> I think he means that it's bad to assume someone that skinny has an eating disorder. Just like it's bad to assume all fat people are horrible gluttons.




Yes, this.




> I also do wonder how a person can fit their organs into such a tiny space. Does that mean their organs are small or does it mean that mine are the same size but I can't tell cause of all the fat I have?



Some of our organs will be a bit bigger because they can be, or because we're fat, but yeah - we're just much larger vessels full of the same stuff.


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## bettylulu (Aug 20, 2011)

Jes said:


> It's interesting that you and Olwen have some sort of sewing knowledge and aim higher than needed (though, of course, you might also have the 'room to play' or 'in case i screw up and don't want to go back to the store' thing working as a decision-making factor) and that for the women on the tv program I saw, who had none, they far underestimated their size.



I'm new to sewing, so I definitely added some "just in case" room, but I still have a ton left after that. 

But I thought this might be interesting to add to the story. I am back to school and I had to take a drawing class. One of our very first projects was an exercise in drawing to scale and ellipses. We were paired up with each group drawing 5 or 6 objects (cups, vases, and bottles) and sitting across from each other with the objects in the middle. I am 5'11"ish and 265ish pounds. My partner was about 5'3" and around 120-130 pounds. Our teacher was coming around and checking on our work and he noticed that my partner had drawn everything gigantic, way beyond scale. Then I looked down at my own work and I had drawn everything teeny tiny, way below scale. For some reason this completely fascinates me that the big girl drew everything teeny and the little girl drew everything huge.


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## Jes (Aug 20, 2011)

olwen said:


> What would your reaction be in that situation?
> 
> .



Every time I've ever been in that situation (and being carless and living in a city, I take the bus a lot), I've made eye contact/smiled and moved over as much as I can to make as much room for the other person as I can (while still staying seated--unless it's obvious to me that it's an old or infirm person or a person with young children or a pregnant woman,e tc). If the person wants to try to sit, however squished or uncomfortabe, that's up to that person. There's always an element of awkwardness or even anxiety when humans, who envy their personal space, have to squish together, for sure. And we all have different approaches; I get that.


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## Fat Brian (Aug 20, 2011)

This is a really interesting thread. I've always been bigger than others my age, I was always the biggest person in my class until well into high school. Now I'm one of the biggest people where I work. I don't feel like a giant, I feel the same as I ever have and I've gotten used to everyone being smaller than me. Then, we where having a big meeting at work and people from other districts came for it. One guy who came was 6'9" and over 400 lbs, it was the first time in my adult life I was smaller and shorter than someone and it was kind of weird. It made me wonder if others see me the way I saw him, huge and somewhat intimidating in an odd way.

Its the same way with Crystal, she's well into SSBBW territory but I don't see her as being that big with me, she's just normal size. Its not until I see her with smaller people that her size is noticeably different. I guess its like in bettylous example, our size does play a role in how we view the world around us.


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## luscious_lulu (Aug 20, 2011)

What I wonder about is why don't places provide larger towels. The hotel I was at last week had small towels that had absolutely no hope in hell in fitting around my body. Hell, they barely covered my boobs.


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## olwen (Aug 20, 2011)

Jes said:


> Every time I've ever been in that situation (and being carless and living in a city, I take the bus a lot), I've made eye contact/smiled and moved over as much as I can to make as much room for the other person as I can (while still staying seated--unless it's obvious to me that it's an old or infirm person or a person with young children or a pregnant woman,e tc). If the person wants to try to sit, however squished or uncomfortabe, that's up to that person. There's always an element of awkwardness or even anxiety when humans, who envy their personal space, have to squish together, for sure. And we all have different approaches; I get that.



So you wouldn't mind if someone squished in next to you making both of you extremely uncomfortable to the point where you have to hold your arms so close together infront of you that they start to ache? That's too much for me.


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## olwen (Aug 20, 2011)

Fat Brian said:


> This is a really interesting thread. I've always been bigger than others my age, I was always the biggest person in my class until well into high school. Now I'm one of the biggest people where I work. I don't feel like a giant, I feel the same as I ever have and I've gotten used to everyone being smaller than me. Then, we where having a big meeting at work and people from other districts came for it. One guy who came was 6'9" and over 400 lbs, it was the first time in my adult life I was smaller and shorter than someone and it was kind of weird. It made me wonder if others see me the way I saw him, huge and somewhat intimidating in an odd way.
> 
> Its the same way with Crystal, she's well into SSBBW territory but I don't see her as being that big with me, she's just normal size. Its not until I see her with smaller people that her size is noticeably different. I guess its like in bettylous example, our size does play a role in how we view the world around us.



I don't feel like a giant either. I just feel like me. My size seems normal to me, but thin people just seem crazy small.


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## liz (di-va) (Aug 20, 2011)

olwen said:


> The other day in the locker room of the gym I was getting ready to shower and I grabbed four towels as I always do. They're just so effing small. That's just how many I need to wrap around my body. I walked toward the showers and I saw a much smaller woman who had one towel wrapped around her entire body and it seemed incredibly strange to me that anyone could get such a tiny towel around their whole torso. This happens every time I'm at the gym. How could something so small fit around a person? I did recognize the irony in how some skinny woman would think the same thing about how many of those ridiculously tiny towels I need to fit around me. It's not just towels tho, it's any space or thing that I can't fit into that skinny people can. So then I started wondering if other fat people wonder the same thing.
> 
> So how bout it, do you?



One thing I admit I'm always surprised by in terms of the physics of thin folks in the world is how flat thin people are under the covers in bed. For instance, I remember sharing a hotel room with a thin friend once and looking over at the bed she was in and thinking--damn...she disappeared! It's this kind of magic thing. People just kind of get swallowed by the surface of it. The give in the mattress sucks them in and all there is is a head on the pillow.

Nobody ever wonders if I'm in a bed or not...'tis pretty clear .


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## Carrie (Aug 20, 2011)

I have similar thoughts, but they tend to be more focused on movement - like when I see an average sized woman running with ease or a slim man effortlessly bound up a flight of stairs. I just kind of marvel at it and wonder if they even give it a second thought, the ability to do those things with no problem.


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## olwen (Aug 20, 2011)

Carrie said:


> I have similar thoughts, but they tend to be more focused on movement - like when I see an average sized woman running with ease or a slim man effortlessly bound up a flight of stairs. I just kind of marvel at it and wonder if they even give it a second thought, the ability to do those things with no problem.



Yes! I have thought the same exact thing. Where do they get the energy?


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## Fat Brian (Aug 20, 2011)

olwen said:


> I don't feel like a giant either. I just feel like me. My size seems normal to me, but thin people just seem crazy small.



Some people react to me like I'm a giant though, I think because small men are so keyed in on their size their reactions to me are pretty odd sometimes.


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## mjbmxz (Aug 20, 2011)

In your defense, it takes more towels to cover up more awesomness. Bigger we are, the more full of awesome.


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## PeanutButterfly (Aug 20, 2011)

Fat Brian said:


> Some people react to me like I'm a giant though, I think because small men are so keyed in on their size their reactions to me are pretty odd sometimes.



This is interesting. My boyfriend was telling me a story about the place he works recently that had the opposite reaction. His was about height but maybe its a similar concept? His manager is like 5'7 and he asked my boyfriend "so, what are you like 5'10/5'11?" My boyfried is easily 6'2, I'd bet over 6'3 with shoes on. He said no one's even questioned him being over 6 feet since like sophomore year of high school. But a shorter man had little idea how tall he really was. 

Back to the original thread, I do tend to bump into things, especially at work. I don't really notice how wide my hips are spatially or my butt tends to know things over because I forget how far out it sticks. Oddly, I have the opposite reaction with clothing. I always order things online in an 18 or a 2x and every time I'm surprised when theyre too big.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Aug 20, 2011)

olwen said:


> I don't feel like a giant either. I just feel like me. My size seems normal to me, but thin people just seem crazy small.





Carrie said:


> I have similar thoughts, but they tend to be more focused on movement - like when I see an average sized woman running with ease or a slim man effortlessly bound up a flight of stairs. I just kind of marvel at it and wonder if they even give it a second thought, the ability to do those things with no problem.



I doubt they do. It is a very human tendency -- not so much to take our abilities for granted -- as to subconsciously assume that our experiences constitute the norm, as in what Olwen said about the way thin people look to her. For example, my wife is brilliant: she is one of the most intelligent people I've ever met. Yet she doesn't _feel_ brilliant: she assumes she has ordinary intelligence and is frequently puzzled at how many stupid people there seem to be in the world.


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## Jes (Aug 20, 2011)

olwen said:


> So you wouldn't mind if someone squished in next to you making both of you extremely uncomfortable to the point where you have to hold your arms so close together infront of you that they start to ache? That's too much for me.



Would I mind, yes, but I don't think that would change my behavior. Something about it being a person's body would bother me less than if, say, he or she had a big box or bag and was jabbing it into me (without realizing it). I think I'd say something about the object, but not about someone's body.


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## olwen (Aug 20, 2011)

Jes said:


> Would I mind, yes, but I don't think that would change my behavior. Something about it being a person's body would bother me less than if, say, he or she had a big box or bag and was jabbing it into me (without realizing it). I think I'd say something about the object, but not about someone's body.




Oh I think I see...you think it would be rude to say "you can't fit there" whereas I think I'm stating an obvious fact; that it would be rude and nuts for a person to try and sit there. You're right. Our different reactions are interesting.


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## olwen (Aug 20, 2011)

Fat Brian said:


> Some people react to me like I'm a giant though, I think because small men are so keyed in on their size their reactions to me are pretty odd sometimes.



I get this. Men are def more aware or should I say wary of size. I think my size is more intimidating to men than women, and as an aside no guy has ever tried to fit in that bus seat. It's always women.


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## Jes (Aug 20, 2011)

olwen said:


> Oh I think I see...you think it would be rude to say "you can't fit there" whereas I think I'm stating an obvious fact; that it would be rude and nuts for a person to try and sit there. You're right. Our different reactions are interesting.



I don't know that I think it would be rude, it's just ... that wouldn't be my reaction, you know? Like, that wouldn't occur to me to want to say. But then, imagine being the person trying to sit. I can't imagine the statement coming across as a fact, but instead, as potentially rude. I'm trying to imagine how I'd feel if someone said it to me... fact or rude? haha. I don't know. sometimes I try to judge a spot and wonder if I'll fit and it can be so hard to judge the actual amount of space I take up v. the empty space that I'm looking at.


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## Captain Save (Aug 20, 2011)

Reading about public transportation reminds me of the busing system in Detroit in my youth. Early in the morning and late in the afternoon it was standing room only, and while I never cared if I was standing or sitting (facing sideways gave me motion sickness) I can easily remember the grueling discomfort for everyone, especially in the hot summer months.

I have a hard time determining the size of people's bodies as well. I bought my last car armed with the knowlege that I needed the space for growing children; I wouldn't even consider buying an economy car. Sure enough, while they aren't 8ft tall or 500 lbs, both of them today need more space than I do. How much, I don't know. 

Lastly, I also stopped buying regular sized bath towels years ago; I only buy bath sheets. I think it would be nice if gyms and hotels and other places would at least provide the same option for those who requested it.


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## olwen (Aug 21, 2011)

Jes said:


> I don't know that I think it would be rude, it's just ... that wouldn't be my reaction, you know? Like, that wouldn't occur to me to want to say. But then, imagine being the person trying to sit. I can't imagine the statement coming across as a fact, but instead, as potentially rude. I'm trying to imagine how I'd feel if someone said it to me... fact or rude? haha. I don't know. sometimes I try to judge a spot and wonder if I'll fit and it can be so hard to judge the actual amount of space I take up v. the empty space that I'm looking at.



Ah. I've never been unsure about judging seats. I know from sight if I'll fit and if it looks like I don't, I wouldn't even attempt it. If some skinny person sees it as rude, I guess they don't realize how much space they take up either. It's just funny.


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## olwen (Aug 21, 2011)

Captain Save said:


> Reading about public transportation reminds me of the busing system in Detroit in my youth. Early in the morning and late in the afternoon it was standing room only, and while I never cared if I was standing or sitting (facing sideways gave me motion sickness) I can easily remember the grueling discomfort for everyone, especially in the hot summer months.
> 
> I have a hard time determining the size of people's bodies as well. I bought my last car armed with the knowlege that I needed the space for growing children; I wouldn't even consider buying an economy car. Sure enough, while they aren't 8ft tall or 500 lbs, both of them today need more space than I do. How much, I don't know.
> 
> Lastly, I also stopped buying regular sized bath towels years ago; I only buy bath sheets. I think it would be nice if gyms and hotels and other places would at least provide the same option for those who requested it.



I have bath sheets at home too. Those are great.


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## Yakatori (Aug 21, 2011)

olwen said:


> "_...I grabbed four towels as I always do...That's just how many I need to wrap around my body...and it seemed incredibly strange to me that anyone could get such a tiny towel around their whole torso._"


My gym doesn't have a towel service (that I know of); but I approach this from somewhat of an opposite direction: I bought a bunch of bath-sheet towels at one point with the intent of using them for that very purpose; but they just seem too cumbersome to be carrying with me, given everything else I need. Besides that, with the lockers so close to each other; and the likelihood that someone will be airing it out right next to me; and the size of the benches and likelihood that someone will have all of their stuff spread-out all over them; and, moreover, the size of the shower stalls however nicely appointed with miniature tile in subdued earth-tones; etc...I just take a bag to the handicapped accessible-shower, which is like 4 times the size of a regular stall. I undress, shower, & dry-off & (mostly) get dressed right inside the shower-stall all in the space of about >9 minutes. I keep between 2-3 golf-size towels in my bag; but, honestly, I find that I tend to get completely dry just using one of those, which I then use to wrap my dirty-clothes in, making it more efficient to throw the whole heap into the wash. 

That said, I think part of the reason why you tend to see such small towels is that they don't want to waste any washing on the portion of towel that anyone might not use. For example, if someone of my size can get dry with a golf towel; I'm sure that for a lot of the people who don't use the towel as a cover-up, a single small towel is more than sufficient. To be clear, I mean people who walk totally naked from the locker to the shower with the towel in their hand and then dry-off completely in the shower area then walk back to the locker totally naked (& dry!) with the wet towel in hand. That's not really my style, personally; but whatevs.

But I am sort of curious as to how you can use 4 towels simultaneously, if that's what you mean. Do you clip them together or something?


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## CastingPearls (Aug 21, 2011)

Reasons from a person who works at a spa (not me)

Less material to wash (also less detergent, etc.)
Less time for folding and space for storage
Deterrent to theft ('everyone' LOVES bath sheets-not so much small towels)


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## olwen (Aug 21, 2011)

Yakatori said:


> My gym doesn't have a towel service (that I know of); but I approach this from somewhat of an opposite direction: I bought a bunch of bath-sheet towels at one point with the intent of using them for that very purpose; but they just seem too cumbersome to be carrying with me, given everything else I need. Besides that, with the lockers so close to each other; and the likelihood that someone will be airing it out right next to me; and the size of the benches and likelihood that someone will have all of their stuff spread-out all over them; and, moreover, the size of the shower stalls however nicely appointed with miniature tile in subdued earth-tones; etc...I just take a bag to the handicapped accessible-shower, which is like 4 times the size of a regular stall. I undress, shower, & dry-off & (mostly) get dressed right inside the shower-stall all in the space of about >9 minutes. I keep between 2-3 golf-size towels in my bag; but, honestly, I find that I tend to get completely dry just using one of those, which I then use to wrap my dirty-clothes in, making it more efficient to throw the whole heap into the wash.
> 
> That said, I think part of the reason why you tend to see such small towels is that they don't want to waste any washing on the portion of towel that anyone might not use. For example, if someone of my size can get dry with a golf towel; I'm sure that for a lot of the people who don't use the towel as a cover-up, a single small towel is more than sufficient. To be clear, I mean people who walk totally naked from the locker to the shower with the towel in their hand and then dry-off completely in the shower area then walk back to the locker totally naked (& dry!) with the wet towel in hand. That's not really my style, personally; but whatevs.
> 
> But I am sort of curious as to how you can use 4 towels simultaneously, if that's what you mean. Do you clip them together or something?



Why would you be in the shower and not have the water running? Frankly, that would annoy me but only if there was a line for the shower.

I don't clip the towels together. I put them under various folds of skin to hold them in place. Two towels will be soaked thru before I'm even finished drying off. A lot of skin means, a lot of tiny towels.

I go to the gym to use the pool, so actually I end up using five or six towels altogether, one of which I use to dry my bathing suit and spandex cap because my suit doesn't fit well in the spinning thingy. The last time I put it in there it tore a hole in my bathing suit so I stopped using it.

Anyway, this is less about the towels than it is about the way fat people perceive spaces and sizes.


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## butch (Aug 22, 2011)

I was thinking about this thread when I was on the subway yesterday, and I wonder if one of the reasons studies show that fat people tend to underestimate their size is because they may not see a lot of people around them on a regular basis who are their size. I was thinking that even the most vain person spends more time looking at others than looking at themselves, so wouldn't the bodies of the people around us shape our understanding of what our bodies look like, since we see them a lot more than we see our own body? And, if these bodies are substantially smaller, then of course we're not going to be able to accurately size up what degree of large we are.

I have no illusions about how big I am, but I have my moments when I look at pictures of myself and am surprised at my largeness. The reality is, for most days, the largest person I see, by far, is the person in the mirror, so why would I have a good idea of what size I am, when everyone around me is tiny in comparison? I don't think I suffer from some sort of body dysmorphia, and I'm not claiming that no fat person ever suffers from this sort of issue, but I am claiming that there may be other things at play here.


Speaking of buses, I have this weird curiosity about something in one of the buses that serves my city. We have our regular bus service, and then we have this newer bus service that runs primarily to places popular with tourists and others who don't regularly use the main bus service. The newer buses are made by Van Hool, and there is one seat on one of the models they use in our city that is almost twice as larger as every other seat on the bus. It is just one seat, and it is by one of the three doors on the bus, and I want to know what the designers were thinking when they included it, because I doubt they were thinking to make one big seat for bigger riders.

Sadly, though, the aisles on these buses are pretty small, so it isn't like the bus is completely designed for fat people's comfort, but that one seat suggests that there is a possibility for future designs that take our larger bodies into consideration, without all the "oh noes obesity epidemic' hand-wringing that happens when the media report on seat size and weight limits on our transportation vehicles.


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## Tad (Aug 22, 2011)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I doubt they do. It is a very human tendency -- not so much to take our abilities for granted -- as to subconsciously assume that our experiences constitute the norm, as in what Olwen said about the way thin people look to her. For example, my wife is brilliant: she is one of the most intelligent people I've ever met. Yet she doesn't _feel_ brilliant: she assumes she has ordinary intelligence and is frequently puzzled at how many stupid people there seem to be in the world.





butch said:


> I was thinking about this thread when I was on the subway yesterday, and I wonder if one of the reasons studies show that fat people tend to underestimate their size is because they may not see a lot of people around them on a regular basis who are their size. I was thinking that even the most vain person spends more time looking at others than looking at themselves, so wouldn't the bodies of the people around us shape our understanding of what our bodies look like, since we see them a lot more than we see our own body? And, if these bodies are substantially smaller, then of course we're not going to be able to accurately size up what degree of large we are.



I think both of these things tend to be true, and can combine in odd ways in our head! I admit I have no real idea of how fat people around me see me as being. I tried to get some objective feeling for it at one point, finding various ways of measuring myself and trying to see how big those looked to me (such as lining up books equal to my waist size....that was a lot of paperbacks!), but while it was kind of amusing, it didn't really make much difference for me in the end. 

For that matter, I find it hard to keep track of what my body is now, in my forties, compared to say twenty years ago. I'm sure I look fairly middle aged (especially with being mostly bald), but of course I don't see myself that way in my own mental image.

No wonder body image distortions are so common, when it is so hard to see our own selves clearly.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Aug 22, 2011)

Tad said:


> For that matter, I find it hard to keep track of what my body is now, in my forties, compared to say twenty years ago. I'm sure I look fairly middle aged (especially with being mostly bald), but of course I don't see myself that way in my own mental image.
> 
> No wonder body image distortions are so common, when it is so hard to see our own selves clearly.



Truth! Although I see myself in the mirror every morning when I shave, if I close my eyes and try to visualize my face .... I find I am looking at myself as I appeared in my early thirties!


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## paintsplotch (Aug 22, 2011)

i think i have always concidered myself much much larger than i am.
not so much dysmorphia.... but just feeling larger because of reactions i get.
but ive also been fascinated by thin people
i find them fascinating... bone structure, muscle tone..... the way some people watch butterflies, i study thin people.
they are amazing.
i grew up in the same house with my sister..... she ate like she was a bottomless pit.... i ate sparingly.
she was the thin one
i have always been chunkified.
i always found it amazing.... how did she get to be thin? what made the difference. it was obviously something unseen.... we ate the same, but we were so very different...
i have always struggled with my weight.
i buy bath sheets.
i know that if a towel is shorter than i am tall, it wont fit around me. 
i make sure i dont 'disturb' those around me and will walk around a restaraunt the long way just so i dont have to squeeze through smaller spaces between full tables.
life is full of adjustments. 
i try to make the best of it.


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## olwen (Aug 22, 2011)

butch said:


> I was thinking about this thread when I was on the subway yesterday, and I wonder if one of the reasons studies show that fat people tend to underestimate their size is because they may not see a lot of people around them on a regular basis who are their size. I was thinking that even the most vain person spends more time looking at others than looking at themselves, so wouldn't the bodies of the people around us shape our understanding of what our bodies look like, since we see them a lot more than we see our own body? And, if these bodies are substantially smaller, then of course we're not going to be able to accurately size up what degree of large we are.
> 
> I have no illusions about how big I am, but I have my moments when I look at pictures of myself and am surprised at my largeness. The reality is, for most days, the largest person I see, by far, is the person in the mirror, so why would I have a good idea of what size I am, when everyone around me is tiny in comparison? I don't think I suffer from some sort of body dysmorphia, and I'm not claiming that no fat person ever suffers from this sort of issue, but I am claiming that there may be other things at play here.
> 
> ...



It's just occurred to me to wonder if thin people overestimate or underestimate or get it right. 

We only have one route that uses the three door bus and I've only been on it twice. I don't remember seeing one big seat. Next time I'm on that bus I'll have to look for it. It seems to me that there are more fat riders than thin ones, which makes sense if you think about all the stairs involved in a subway ride, so they should just make bigger seats and maybe wider buses.


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## tonynyc (Aug 22, 2011)

olwen said:


> It's just occurred to me to wonder if thin people overestimate or underestimate or get it right.
> 
> We only have one route that uses the three door bus and I've only been on it twice. I don't remember seeing one big seat. Next time I'm on that bus I'll have to look for it. It seems to me that there are more fat riders than thin ones, which makes sense if you think about all the stairs involved in a subway ride, so they should just make bigger seats and maybe wider buses.



*MTA* are such cheap fucks they'd rather raise the fare than give the commuters extra seat room - let's face it- it's not like any of the MTA Board members would venture into our SUbway system as part of a daily commute...

And during the rush hour commute- it's all good - and friendly...













*perhaps we need to go back to our classic subways- updated with air conditioning- but,l that isn't going to happen anytime soon*


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## Melian (Aug 23, 2011)

olwen said:


> It's just occurred to me to wonder if thin people overestimate or underestimate or get it right.



I can't speak for all thin people, but I don't really estimate anything related to my own size. I mean, I know my measurements due to online clothes shopping, but size estimates really don't come up in daily life, because my size is never a hindrance, if that makes sense.


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## olwen (Aug 23, 2011)

Melian said:


> I can't speak for all thin people, but I don't really estimate anything related to my own size. I mean, I know my measurements due to online clothes shopping, but size estimates really don't come up in daily life, because my size is never a hindrance, if that makes sense.



That makes total sense.


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## Shan34 (Aug 27, 2011)

Sometimes my mind wanders into this very thing. Usually it's when I am with my skinny friend and we are riding in her car. I notice that there is all this room between her belly and the steering wheel. And well ... my belly just keeps going haha...

Just have to add that a few weeks ago for the very first time in my life I noticed when I was sitting in a lawn chair that my booty hung over on each side and I didn't feel like shit for it. In fact, it was the opposite. I even pointed it out to a friend with pride and a smile. A small victory with big meaning. :happy:


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## Jes (Aug 29, 2011)

I also wonder if some people are predisposed to having trouble understanding physical space and the room objects take up.

I watched a clip from a hoarder show on tv, and a number of the hoarders simply do not see how much room something takes up. One might have 20 boxes of xmas ornaments but she estimates she has no more than 4 boxes. Another might have floor-to-ceiling plastic bins of stuff, but she doesn't feel that those piles take up as much room as they do.

I realize that this brings the issue away from bodies, specifically, but things in our homes, and in our personal spaces, share a bit with our bodies, I think (at least in the way that we need to move around the things in our homes, which is harder when we're bigger!).

Some hoarders are aware of just how much stuff they have, and if they say they're not, they're lying to themselves and others as a way of avoiding dealing with the problem. BUt there are absolutely people on that program who would bet money that they only have 8 or 10 cars when in fact they've got 25 sitting out there on the lawn.

I wonder what goes into all of that thinking, be it possessions or bodies. VERY interesting, Olwen.


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## Fat Brian (Aug 29, 2011)

You're beginning to touch on spatial awareness and its correlation to over all intelligence. I found this article that talks about how people have differing capacities in relating to the space around them.

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro02/web3/czhan.html


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 29, 2011)

Melian said:


> I can't speak for all thin people, but I don't really estimate anything related to my own size. I mean, I know my measurements due to online clothes shopping, but size estimates really don't come up in daily life, because my size is never a hindrance, if that makes sense.



Yes, I think that's really key. This morning I was driving my bf to the airport (he is very thin), and was telling him the most recent stuff that happened with Southwest airlines and why so many fat people hate flying and whatnot. He admitted that it had never really been something he realized other people thought a lot about. And in general, when navigating spaces, he has admitted that he just doesn't think of it because for him, in a physical sense, he can always navigate things with ease.

Because of being fat tho, I actually feel like I have increased my spatial intelligence beyond what it would otherwise be. I can eye a booth and know if it will work for me, quickly suss out the best possible exit route in a busy restaurant with a maze of tables and chairs, and other things like that. So with practice, I guess I've actually become more aware of my size and environment and figuring out those kinds of things. (And I do think it's because of having to pay attention to my size a lot, because my spatial intelligence really isn't great otherwise.)


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## TexasTrouble (Aug 29, 2011)

I think a lot of smaller people don't think about space that much because they never have to. I don't know if it's part of my own internalized "fat shame" or not, but I've always thought in the back of my mind that, when navigating a room like in a restaurant with lots of tables, if I bump into people when I pass they must get annoyed and attribute it to my (too big, in their opinion) size but if a smaller person does it, it must be because that darn restaurant tried to squeeze too many tables into a too small a room. In the first case, I'm too big and in the second, the room's too small. Just something I've always kind of thought.


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## Melian (Aug 29, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> Because of being fat tho, I actually feel like I have increased my spatial intelligence beyond what it would otherwise be. I can eye a booth and know if it will work for me, quickly suss out the best possible exit route in a busy restaurant with a maze of tables and chairs, and other things like that. So with practice, I guess I've actually become more aware of my size and environment and figuring out those kinds of things. (And I do think it's because of having to pay attention to my size a lot, because my spatial intelligence really isn't great otherwise.)



Yeah, it does sound like spatial training. In contrast, I'm clumsy as all hell and constantly crash into things - I'm usually bruised and covered in small cuts (isn't that attractive...). Maybe if I was forced to think about the space I occupy, I would cause less destruction!


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## olwen (Aug 29, 2011)

Fat Brian said:


> You're beginning to touch on spatial awareness and its correlation to over all intelligence. I found this article that talks about how people have differing capacities in relating to the space around them.
> 
> http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro02/web3/czhan.html



I think this proves it. Fat people are automatically more intelligent.


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## olwen (Aug 29, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> Yes, I think that's really key. This morning I was driving my bf to the airport (he is very thin), and was telling him the most recent stuff that happened with Southwest airlines and why so many fat people hate flying and whatnot. He admitted that it had never really been something he realized other people thought a lot about. And in general, when navigating spaces, he has admitted that he just doesn't think of it because for him, in a physical sense, he can always navigate things with ease.
> 
> Because of being fat tho, I actually feel like I have increased my spatial intelligence beyond what it would otherwise be. I can eye a booth and know if it will work for me, quickly suss out the best possible exit route in a busy restaurant with a maze of tables and chairs, and other things like that. So with practice, I guess I've actually become more aware of my size and environment and figuring out those kinds of things. (And I do think it's because of having to pay attention to my size a lot, because my spatial intelligence really isn't great otherwise.)





TexasTrouble said:


> I think a lot of smaller people don't think about space that much because they never have to. I don't know if it's part of my own internalized "fat shame" or not, but I've always thought in the back of my mind that, when navigating a room like in a restaurant with lots of tables, if I bump into people when I pass they must get annoyed and attribute it to my (too big, in their opinion) size but if a smaller person does it, it must be because that darn restaurant tried to squeeze too many tables into a too small a room. In the first case, I'm too big and in the second, the room's too small. Just something I've always kind of thought.



It's funny, I'm not the only one who immediately susses out a path thru a restaurant packed with tables. It's true, I know in one glance whether or not I'll be able to fit in the spaces. I can look at a shirt and know instantly if the arms will be too small and I've had thin friends doubt me. I'd have to try to get the shirt on to prove it won't fit. So many thin people have done that. It always bugged me that they couldn't tell. The only solution to that problem is to tell people not to buy me clothes as gifts. ...maybe part of it is that they can't imagine that a human body would need so much space. I guess it's true; since they don't have to think about the space they occupy, they aren't aware of spaces in general. ...does this make parallel parking extra hard for thin people?


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## Fat Brian (Aug 29, 2011)

olwen said:


> I think this proves it. Fat people are automatically more intelligent.



I'm not going to argue with that!


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## Jes (Aug 30, 2011)

My bf bought me a beautiful diamond tennis bracelet last xmas. I saw it in the box and was simultaneously bowled over and horribly disappointed (more for him than me). I smiled and said it was so beautiful but that... I didn't think it was going to fit. He was, I think, put out by the fact that I was a Debbie Downer and hadn't even tried it on, yet. Now, ladies, you and I know that there's a standard bracelet length out there in the world. It's usually 7 to 7.5 inches. And eyeing this, I could tell it wasn't a special order. I make jewelry--I know what the standard bracelet length is! And so I tried, and of course, it barely got around one of my knuckles. Ha. 

You wanna know true heartbreak? Be in a position where you have to turn down a diamond tennis bracelet from someone who worked so hard to plesae you and you'll know.

Olwen, I've rarely been right about the shirt measurements, but I can tell you that I scope out the 'escape route' from busy cafes and table-and-chair pile ups well before I leave my seat. I hate that. HATE that. If I had longer legs, I might be able to go on my tiptoes and move through relatively easily, but I don't, so I can't. Bang, bang, scrape, eyes on me. HATE IT. I'm getting the heebie jeebies just thinking about it.


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## olwen (Aug 30, 2011)

This just goes back to the seats on the bus. I know they won't fit and they should too, but they don't. Thanks to the responses in this thread I get why. They don't have to negotiate spaces in the same way fat people do, so it doesn't occur to them that they wouldn't fit into something. It's just so odd.


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## TexasTrouble (Aug 30, 2011)

On the idea that thinner people don't think about space/size the way larger people do: I listened to two audiobooks by Jennifer Weiner recently during a road trip. The books were _Good in Bed _and _In Her Shoes_ and I had heard that they included "plus-size" heroines. So I listen and, in both books, the main characters have major body issues and self-esteem problems because they are SOOOOOO fat. The books constantly mention how large they are. In I_n Her Shoes_ a lot is made over how so few stores carry wedding dresses in the character's size. In _Good in Bed_ there's a scene where the main character is described as taking up almost the entire surface of a bed laying down (I'm paraphrasing). How big were these women? The character from _In Her Shoes_ (played by Toni Collette in the film version, but that's another thread) is a 14 and the character from _Good in Bed_ wears a size 16--I heard that and thought--WTF??? Especially in the case of the Good in Bed character who is described as having such a severe weight issue. 

The only thing I could come up with is that the author, who appears fairly slim in the pics I've seen either 1) couldn't even imagine anything beyond those sizes--Hmm...What is a HUGE size? I know! A 16! or 2) wouldn't want to alienate a potential audience by having a heroine who's too big. I guess it just reminded me of people who don't think about size trying to write about it and getting it wrong.


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## Jes (Aug 30, 2011)

And what about the movie review/synopsis that said the Mother in What's Eating Gilbert Grape weighed 300 lbs and was so huge. Clearly, for the person writing that 300 lbs was as large as large could be.


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## Lamia (Aug 30, 2011)

Jes said:


> And what about the movie review/synopsis that said the Mother in What's Eating Gilbert Grape weighed 300 lbs and was so huge. Clearly, for the person writing that 300 lbs was as large as large could be.



Perhaps the person who wrote this knew someone that size and that person told them they weighed 300 lbs. I often lied about my weight when I was younger. I think I had 180lbs on my license for years even though I was 300.


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## Jes (Aug 30, 2011)

Lamia said:


> Perhaps the person who wrote this knew someone that size and that person told them they weighed 300 lbs. I often lied about my weight when I was younger. I think I had 180lbs on my license for years even though I was 300.



Absolutely possible!


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## olwen (Aug 30, 2011)

Isn't Jennifer Weiner that woman who just wrote some article about how HAES doesn't work or something like that? Turned out she didn't know what HAES meant. She was a size 18 and thought she was humungous. The fat studies list was all atwitter about it. 

Her novels are problematic. Yes. The entire genre of "fat chick lit" is full problems (for me anywhow) mainly for the fact that the main characters are a size 18 max and act like the world is over because they are "whales," and dieting is the only solution. I've read one or two of those (I can't remember the names of the books thos) all excited about having fat characters but the characters just made me angry. I haven't read another book in that genre since.


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## liz (di-va) (Aug 30, 2011)

olwen said:


> Isn't Jennifer Weiner that woman who just wrote some article about how HAES doesn't work or something like that? Turned out she didn't know what HAES meant. She was a size 18 and thought she was humungous. The fat studies list was all atwitter about it.
> 
> Her novels are problematic. Yes. The entire genre of "fat chick lit" is full problems (for me anywhow) mainly for the fact that the main characters are a size 18 max and act like the world is over because they are "whales," and dieting is the only solution. I've read one or two of those (I can't remember the names of the books thos) all excited about having fat characters but the characters just made me angry. I haven't read another book in that genre since.



That was Jess Weiner.

But agree about Jennifer Weiner--not my particular bag.


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## olwen (Aug 30, 2011)

Thanks Liz. I really wasn't sure but was too lazy to look it up.


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## Jon Blaze (Aug 31, 2011)

I think life in general is a huge conundrum. No matter where you go, there will always be changes in how things fit, the tempo of the area around you, and more.

I know when I'm out and about in most areas I am considered very fast paced. I walk fast, often jump curbs and jog a bit to get places. But when I go to Chicago to visit my father and now my love, even if I wasn't confused half the time as to where I would be going, I would be considered going at an average pace compared to most there. I can imagine people thinking I'm slow. Here on the other hand, and I'm just way too fast.

It's just everything though when you think about it. It might be the fact that you don't smile a lot, or any number of things that just might make you different. That's just who we are.


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## butch (Sep 2, 2011)

about the author Jennifer Weiner-many years ago she was featured in an article in Entertainment Weekly, and the full-page picture of her with the article was so bizarre-it was shot from her back, and she was looking into a mirror, so the only way you saw her face was as it was reflected in a small hand-held mirror-sort of an artsy 'headless fatty' shot, very objectifying and odd picture.

For some reason, now all I can think of is this title: "The Headless Fatty of Sleepy Hollow." Someone needs to write that WG fiction NOW!


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## olwen (Sep 2, 2011)

butch said:


> about the author Jennifer Weiner-many years ago she was featured in an article in Entertainment Weekly, and the full-page picture of her with the article was so bizarre-it was shot from her back, and she was looking into a mirror, so the only way you saw her face was as it was reflected in a small hand-held mirror-sort of an artsy 'headless fatty' shot, very objectifying and odd picture.
> 
> For some reason, now all I can think of is this title: "The Headless Fatty of Sleepy Hollow." Someone needs to write that WG fiction NOW!



HA! Is the headless fatty of sleepy hollow the feeder or the gainer?


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## liz (di-va) (Sep 9, 2011)

butch said:


> about the author Jennifer Weiner-many years ago she was featured in an article in Entertainment Weekly, and the full-page picture of her with the article was so bizarre-it was shot from her back, and she was looking into a mirror, so the only way you saw her face was as it was reflected in a small hand-held mirror-sort of an artsy 'headless fatty' shot, very objectifying and odd picture.
> 
> For some reason, now all I can think of is this title: "The Headless Fatty of Sleepy Hollow." Someone needs to write that WG fiction NOW!


Her photos are in general extremely (if I may say) curated.

WHICH! I do myself. And I get. But you know...I noticed.


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## Brenda (Sep 9, 2011)

liz (di-va) said:


> Her photos are in general extremely (if I may say) curated.
> 
> WHICH! I do myself. And I get. But you know...I noticed.



I do this myself as well yet expect others to be more fat liberated and give me full frontal fatty when they are writing about size acceptance or being interviewed about it.

I find myself less willing to believe they understand my experience as a triple chinned, bat winged, huge belly hanging fat woman because they are not these things or that they want me to swallow the medicine they themselves have not fully downed.


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## butch (Sep 10, 2011)

liz (di-va) said:


> Her photos are in general extremely (if I may say) curated.
> 
> WHICH! I do myself. And I get. But you know...I noticed.



I get that if we were talking about her author photos on the back of her books, but I don't think one controls the photos that Entertainment Weekly take for their magazine, so this was totally the work of the photographer and the editors at EW. Granted, I don't know the publishing world, so maybe the subject does get more control over pictures used in their interviews, but if not, it seems as if you're suggesting that she may have been happy with an artsy headless fatty shot of her-interesting.


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## olwen (Sep 10, 2011)

I'm guessing that unless the author or interview subject added a rider to a contract or drew up a contract for an interview stating they would have final say on any an all artwork, the production and editorial teams have final say on it. If they send a photo off for retouching and they use it, that's the end of it.


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## GlassDaemon (Sep 10, 2011)

TexasTrouble said:


> On the idea that thinner people don't think about space/size the way larger people do: I listened to two audiobooks by Jennifer Weiner recently during a road trip. The books were _Good in Bed _and _In Her Shoes_ and I had heard that they included "plus-size" heroines. So I listen and, in both books, the main characters have major body issues and self-esteem problems because they are SOOOOOO fat. The books constantly mention how large they are. In I_n Her Shoes_ a lot is made over how so few stores carry wedding dresses in the character's size. In _Good in Bed_ there's a scene where the main character is described as taking up almost the entire surface of a bed laying down (I'm paraphrasing). How big were these women? The character from _In Her Shoes_ (played by Toni Collette in the film version, but that's another thread) is a 14 and the character from _Good in Bed_ wears a size 16--I heard that and thought--WTF??? Especially in the case of the Good in Bed character who is described as having such a severe weight issue.
> 
> The only thing I could come up with is that the author, who appears fairly slim in the pics I've seen either 1) couldn't even imagine anything beyond those sizes--Hmm...What is a HUGE size? I know! A 16! or 2) wouldn't want to alienate a potential audience by having a heroine who's too big. I guess it just reminded me of people who don't think about size trying to write about it and getting it wrong.



When I first got into reading for pleasure my mother gave me this book called "Wishes" (romance) and the heroine is described as large, often called fat through out the book. I guess it was never stated that she was "plus size" but at one point I believe they said she was 160lbs. I guess if she was like 4'11 in height she might be plus size but I'm 244lbs and a size US 18 so I can't imagine she was very big. 160lbs is actually (according to my doctor) at the top of my ideal, healthy weight (120-160lbs[or maybe it was 140lbs, still close]).


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## PhiloGirl (Sep 11, 2011)

On the topic of literature being out in left field with regard to plus or super-plus size... A favorite author of mine created a supersize ancillary character, and I was happy with the way the man was portrayed, but there were definite examples of the author's ignorance as to what life as a large person entails. A specific weight of 400 pounds was given, and the author writes that the (wealthy) character had a specially-designed car... which I suppose I could see - if I had unlimited cash I'd love a super-comfy car, but it was also written that the floors of the man's home had to be reinforced. Really? It wasn't meant as a cheap joke, either. Authors do research all the time for novels... you'd think they might take a minute to ask someone in the know if they're close to the truth or ridiculously off-base.


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## Fat Brian (Sep 11, 2011)

PhiloGirl said:


> On the topic of literature being out in left field with regard to plus or super-plus size... A favorite author of mine created a supersize ancillary character, and I was happy with the way the man was portrayed, but there were definite examples of the author's ignorance as to what life as a large person entails. A specific weight of 400 pounds was given, and the author writes that the (wealthy) character had a specially-designed car... which I suppose I could see - if I had unlimited cash I'd love a super-comfy car, but it was also written that the floors of the man's home had to be reinforced. Really? It wasn't meant as a cheap joke, either. Authors do research all the time for novels... you'd think they might take a minute to ask someone in the know if they're close to the truth or ridiculously off-base.



As a man who is only a few cheeseburgers shy of 400 lbs myself I can say that I still fit in most cars made for the general public and that I have never fallen through a floor. I totally see your point about non-fat people not having a grasp on relative size and weight. Think about it, a book case loaded with books can weigh several hundred pounds and a big refrigerator full of food can also weigh quite a bit but I've never heard of anyone having to strengthen their floor due to either one.


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## CastingPearls (Sep 11, 2011)

Fat Brian said:


> As a man who is only a few cheeseburgers shy of 400 lbs myself I can say that I still fit in most cars made for the general public and that I have never fallen through a floor. I totally see your point about non-fat people not having a grasp on relative size and weight. Think about it, a book case loaded with books can weigh several hundred pounds and a big refrigerator full of food can also weigh quite a bit but I've never heard of anyone having to strengthen their floor due to either one.


A lot of people still have waterbeds and they weigh in excess of 1500 lbs.


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## Fat Brian (Sep 11, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> A lot of people still have waterbeds and they weigh in excess of 1500 lbs.



Yep, I didn't even think of a water bed.


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## Chimpi (Sep 11, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> A lot of people still have waterbeds and they weigh in excess of 1500 lbs.



The people, or the beds?  couldn't resist

I thoroughly enjoy this pondering. It is clear many people wonder about this, especially those who seem to be slightly out of the projected "normal" size range (height, weight). I encountered a bit of it myself today.
Rapids Water Park here in South Florida. I went with my family. Near the end of the water day, I went on a burst of consecutive water-tube slide rides with my nephew (of which I'm still attempting to recover from the erratic, dizzying, loopy nausea) - well, my sister-in-laws sisters son. Zipping up the endless staircase on our 3rd time, he popped the question "You don't get stuck going down?" I politely told him "Nope, luckily I don't." Curiously, he asked "The tube is fatter than you are?"
It made me chuckle, but I was quite amazed at the question (coming from a 7-year-old). The tubes truly look big; I'm under the impression I do not [look that big]. Left me wondering if he'll ever sympathize - or empathize - with a different perspective. /shrug


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