# What obstacles do you face as a SS person?



## Dolce (Apr 14, 2011)

Before the mods move this to the Health, WLS, or BHM board please understand that I posted this on the Main Board since it gets a lot of traffic and I want the opinions of lots of SS people.

I recently found out that a super size friend of mine is seriously considering getting WLS. Every week or so I go to his home and do chores for him that he is unable to complete. While cleaning up I found some paperwork from our local hospital on WLS. I asked him if that was something he was considering and he said that yes, he would like to but that they want him to lose some weight first and change his eating habits. I began to ask more questions (we have never talked about his weight or eating habits before) and he expressed to me that he does want to regain his mobility and learn to eat better. *I think* that he feels very isolated because of his size and he expressed to me that sometimes he is even hesitant to go outside because he feels as though people only see his weight and judge him. He says that he finds it very difficult to talk to people, especially women but he feels comfortable with me. After talking a bit more I asked if he is able to go for short walks. He said he can but that he gets very winded. I said that was okay and every little bit counts. The more he does it, the easier it will get. So I offered for him to go on a short walk with me. He seemed very happy and we wound up walking a little less than 1/4 of a mile. I was so proud of him! Here is the thing... he would like for me to go walking with him more and assist him in finding nutritious foods that he enjoys but I am unsure how to go about it. I do not want to cross a boundary or ask super personal questions of him. I know he likes me and would probably walk farther than he is comfortable with just to please me. 

I have never been SS so I am unaware of the physical limitations that you encounter when attempting to exercise. And although I can empathize with the prejudice and meanness you encounter from a world that sometimes treats you as if you are a waste of space I have no knowledge of the details of your experience. 

If you lose some of your mobility due to size and inactivity how does it feel when you try to regain that mobility through exercise? Are there certain parts of your body that ache you more than others? Namely, what is your PHYSICAL reaction to exercise after long periods of inactivity?

What kinds of obstacles do you face as a super size person in your every day life?

How can someone be of assistance emotionally and physically to a SS person in achieving personal goals?

One thing I want to make clear is that we talked about how size really is unimportant and that it is not necessary to be slim to be attractive and cared for. It is the heart that counts. My hope is that he can achieve his goals without having to resort to surgery. I hope you all will be able to read between the lines a little and understand that this is a unique situation. Your experience as a SS person will prove invaluable to me understanding the needs of the super sized! Thank you!


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## Jes (Apr 14, 2011)

hit reply when i didn't mean to!


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## Dolce (Apr 14, 2011)

Jes said:


> hit reply when i didn't mean to!



Well, at least I got a reply! Haha thanks, Jes


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## LovelyLiz (Apr 14, 2011)

You might be able to get some answers to your questions in this thread about what it's like to date someone who is SS (though in this case it's about women), and what types of things different people find helpful and supportive. I am not SS myself, but I have found reading threads like the one I linked to be a helpful way of deepening my understanding of others in the community (though of course many of us fat people have a big overlap of experiences, SS or not - it's not like SS people are aliens, I don't know that it takes a huge amount of mental gymnastics to figure out what SS people want or need, simply since they are people like anyone else).


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## Dolce (Apr 14, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> it's not like SS people are aliens, I don't know that it takes a huge amount of mental gymnastics to figure out what SS people want or need, simply since they are people like anyone else).



Thank you, McBeth and I agree. Being the type of person who excels at understanding theoretical concepts and then being thrust into the practical world of nursing (which requires a lot of physical skill) I realized that reading theory and thinking you understand and experiencing something physically are two very different things. So I want to understand to the best of my ability what the physical experience is like. Because although I can make a close approximation, there are probably things I am missing due to my lack of experience.


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## Dolce (Apr 14, 2011)

Dolce said:


> Thank you, McBeth and I agree. Being the type of person who excels at understanding theoretical concepts and then being thrust into the practical world of nursing (which requires a lot of physical skill) I realized that reading theory and thinking you understand and experiencing something physically are two very different things. So I want to understand to the best of my ability what the physical experience is like. Because although I can make a close approximation, there are probably things I am missing due to my lack of experience.



FYI this was an analogy. The gentleman in question is not a patient of mine. Eeek! I wouldn't want anyone to draw that conclusion!


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## CastingPearls (Apr 14, 2011)

Well, a whole bunch of things are running through my mind so I'll probably be back, but here's one example.

I've always wanted to go to Disneyworld, Busch Gardens, SeaWorld, state fairs, etc. and just walk around to my hearts content. I'm not only a big extrovert but also a people watcher and get a great deal of pleasure from this. Hell, I love malls, love supermarkets too and it's not enough that I can use a 'weenie wagon'--(that's what we called my mom's scooter) --I wanted to WALK.

So a few years back, when were were still on good terms, Spouse and I decided to drive to Orlando, visit some of his foster family from growing up and I wanted to go everywhere. He didn't want to go anywhere so we compromised on SeaWorld. I walked all over the place. I surprised myself. At the time I was probably around 500 lbs. (smaller now but now have chronic fatigue) and had a sedentary job and hadn't been physically active since childhood. 

I did sit from time to time and stop and look at some things for longer than necessary to catch my breath and even at the time Spouse had a nasty habit of not walking with me but just ahead which I overlooked at the time but afterwards, added to a lot of emotional pain.

My feet hurt. They burned for hours when we got back. I felt terrible because although I saw 90% of the park, I couldn't do more and I felt I was holding him back too. That he seemed irritated with me not being able to keep up was emotionally painful and stayed with me a long time (to be honest, it was probably one of the first nails in the coffin of my marriage) so not only was I in physical pain, but I felt guilt that I couldn't keep up, disgust with myself that I couldn't do more and discouraged because I was hoping to do Disneyworld or Epcot Center and he was totally against it because of the SeaWorld experience. 

The positives were that I got to feed stingrays, dolphins kept coming over to me specifically, wanting to play whenever I walked near their exhibit, I got to see the manatees and seeing the orca/killer whales at the stadium was so profound I actually wept. I also was sitting alone in the splash zone because Captain Courageous was 24 rows up behind me.

EDT: Sharing this was really painful. It actually made me cry but you want reality and you got it.


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## Dolce (Apr 14, 2011)

CP I would never want to make you cry but hopefully it is cathartic for you. I know crying always makes me feel better in the long run. There is no shame in it! I find it so impressive and INSPIRATIONAL when a person goes out and does what they want to do in order to experience life regardless of limitations or obstacles. And your story helps a lot because even though my friend is probably capable of walking farther than he might feel comfortable I don't want him to feel shame or guilt that he can't do as much as a smaller person because the fact that he(and you) get out there and LIVE YOUR LIFE to your hearts content means so much more. And knowing that your feet burned is super helpful, too because there are things that I can do to lesson the pain and prevent blisters. This is what I am trying to do - incorporate the physical, emotional, and spiritual aspects of exercise to better assist him in living his dreams. I can only imagine it would have made your trip so much more enjoyable if you had a companion who was sensitive to your needs and realized the vibrance and strength of determination you have. I think that is my goal... to show SS people who may not be familiar with SA that they deserve to live a good life as they see fit and that there are people out there who give a damn about them.

And I apologize in advance if I am offending anyone with my exuberance. Like I said, you all have to educate me a bit more! I am very passionate about this :bow:


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## Lamia (Apr 14, 2011)

CP I cried when I read that *hugs* I so understand that. To answer the question from my vantage point. 

I am 411 lbs last time I weighed. I used to be very active, but have been very sedentary the last 10 years or so. 

Standing more than 2 minutes pulls and burns in my back.

Walking for a long period kills my back and hips sometimes. 

Just standing a little bit each day would help. Walking would help too. I wouldn't advise doing much more than that until he build up some stamina.

Swimming is THE BEST thing SS people can do as far as exercise because we are weightless in water. I can swim for hours and never feel tired. 

the only downside is you do so much the first time and the next day your muscles are killing you because you don't realize how much of a workout your muscles were actually getting because you have no fatigue like you out of water.


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## Adrian (Apr 14, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> My feet hurt. They burned for hours when we got back. I felt terrible because although I saw 90% of the park, I couldn't do more and I felt I was holding him back too. That he seemed irritated with me not being able to keep up was emotionally painful


I am so sorry to hear your ex treated you that way. I went to Disneyland and my fourth daughter -formerly a national class runner in high school now (2006) had fibromyalgia. We had been to Disneyland several times before but she cried when she first sat in the scooter we rented. Everybody kept pace with her. Were we slowed down, on some things but, on others due to her disability we got to bypass lines and were escorted directly to the front of the line to get quick access to the ride.
Did we miss some things because of her limitations, yes but.... the real joy of Disneyland is all about sharing! To see the joy on loveone's faces is immeasurable. At least that is the way I see it.
CastingPearl, thank you for sharing your experience.


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## Zandoz (Apr 15, 2011)

I was not going to reply...mostly because I didn't know where to start. After a day or so of thought and trying to boil things down to their essence, for me there are two big factors:


Don't try to get him to do too much too fast...pain is a punishment, not an incentive.
Your attitude while helping him will be HUGE.

Two years ago, at 500+ lbs, it was all I could do to walk from one room to the next, and I was slowly getting worse. Then due to a non weight related complication I lost it all...13 months ago all I could do was move my eyes and speak...and that was a drain. After surgery to lessen the effects of the complication I was confronted by so called experts who's attitudes were basically that I was obviously fat and therefore lazy, and the only reason I could not just get out of bed and walk home was that I didn't want to. There was no understanding of the fact that I was not physically able to. Then, more as a matter of trying to get me out of their way, than any intent of helping me, I was shipped to another facility. The difference in approach was like night and day. The care giver's attitudes went from "Just do it!" and "No pain, no gain" to "We don't want you in pain, we want to help you to do what you can, when you can...and encourage you to want to do more when you can".

The difference between an impatient "Just get up and walk!" and "Just try and sit up...if you can't it's OK, but try" followed by obviously heart felt congratulations when progress is made, is absolutely amazing. It makes you WANT to try and do more instead of FEARING trying to do more. 

I will never forget 2 instances...being in the recovery room after surgery and being derided for not standing up and walking...and a month an a half later, after a week of patience and encouragement, slowly and shakily standing for the first time, and the care giver litterally jumping up and down and clapping.


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 15, 2011)

Dolce I'm like an elderly grandma in that I worry over odd sorts of things. Before I go any further I just want to get this off my chest. Please tred carefully here because if this man likes you in an :batting: sort of way you might be asking for trouble. You could hurt this guy and not come away unscathed yourself. Just be careful the signals you give off. I know you want to help but just be careful, you could be hurting him in the long run or he may be using his issues to manipulate you for the attention. There should be a limit in how much of yourself you give in these circumstances. He needs to be helping himself or in the hands of a professional. [/worry]

I am 415 and low on super sized issues. Not saying I don't have them, just generally speaking I seem to be doing pretty well for my size. I have lost a bit of my mobility because my job is very sedentary and I just haven't felt motivated to do anything. Also whatever benefits I used to get from physcal activity were quickly overshadowed by the damages caused to my body once I reached a certain weight. I slowed down and then eventually stopped doing all that I was doing before in order to preserve whatever I had left. Once you lose certain functions it is very hard to get back on the wagon as a supersized person. Some activities begin to put undue stress on the body that you don't need. Personal trainers will tell you that when you begin lifting weights that are too heavy for you there is no benefit to you except to cause strain and injury. To protect themselves from liability, exercise programs advise people to consult their doctors before starting anything but in my experience doctors merely give a cursory OK for activities because they want to see you doing something rather than nothing. The problem is that 85% of the exercises out there do more harm than good to SS people. While it's helping you in some ways it is destroying you in others. Many people I know who've lost all the weight found themselves handicapped because their knees, hips and back were destroyed via repetative injury. Be careful trying to push SS people through pain in order to achieve some activity goal. The pain is a flaming red flag.

I took a fall last Fall  and while investigating the damages I discovered I have arthritis in my hips. Not a fun day. Since my body had slugged down anyway due to diminished activity I opted to do aquatic physical therapy to see what physical conditioning I could get back. The PT did nothing to fix my injury (a severely pulled muscle) but it has conditioned my body somewhat and given me the confidence to try for something more. I asked the PT about yoga and belly dance and she was very enthusiastic, especially about the belly dance. I am too. My hope is that this will give me the conditioning I desire without the harmful side effects. I only walk on special occasions and it's all downhill. I have nothing to prove to anyone and have no problems sitting down when I need to no matter who's looking. The comparative benefits of this activity are minimal save for the enjoyment of being there seeing and being seen. When I walk I take it easy and carry a walking stick. I think one needs to be mindful of the kinds of exercises they choose to do as a supersized person otherwise they are better off staying right there in bed with the local delivery menu in their lap in my opinion. That's what I would do anyway.


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## TimeTraveller (Apr 20, 2011)

Dolce said:


> I realized that reading theory and thinking you understand and experiencing something physically are two very different things. So I want to understand to the best of my ability what the physical experience is like. Because although I can make a close approximation, there are probably things I am missing due to my lack of experience.


Don't feel too bad if you miss something because at least you're trying. One would think that after watching my grade school sweetheart grow into the supersize woman she is today, and being married 3 decades plus, I'd know everything there is to know about taking good care of a supersize person. Yet I still get tripped up sometimes. 

Case in point: A month ago we took a vacation in sunny New Mexico. In Santa Fe we booked La Fonda Hotel because it was historic, some friends had loved it, it was conveniently located next to the downtown plaza, and we decided to splurge. Good idea, right? Not quite. With 20/20 hindsight I should have asked our friends whether it was fat-friendly, but that's probably not something they would have noticed. It was great that the main downtown attractions were only a block or two away. However the hotel probably dates from the 1920s well before modern accessibility laws and we suspect it might have been joined together from previous properties. Esthetically it was a fabulous hotel with lots of interesting nooks and crannies everywhere. Practically, though, it was annoying on so many levels  literally. Three steps up here, eight steps down there, with elevators few and far between  if we could find them. 

My wife walks perfectly fine on flat surfaces, but she needs to be very careful how she steps up and down, even if it's only a step or two. Or as she put it, "Swell, this hotel has more curbs than a poorly-planned street." Not to mention narrow corridors and shops that were often crowded. We enjoyed the hotel and are glad we stayed there, but after one night we decided we had seen enough of downtown so we moved ourselves into a Holiday Inn Express a few miles away and explored the surrounding area from there. Not as fancy a hotel, but much more accessible. Cheaper too. The altitude in Santa Fe was also a concern because sometimes my wife was a little short of breath, but regular "mouth-to-mouth resuscitation" took care of that! :smitten:

Albuquerque was much better because we had already booked a Holiday Inn Express there. Not fancy, but very convenient and accessible. The altitude was much lower too  "only" a mile high. We also discovered a Black Angus restaurant and the expression of beaming ecstacy on her face during dinner told me I had more than made up for the size-related inconveniences she endured a few days earlier. :eat2:


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## mel (Apr 20, 2011)

1st of all CP HUGSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS 

I can say for me, it's my feet. too much walking or standing ..and my feet just hurt and ache and then I feel like I cant (or dont want) to do anything like that again for the fear of them hurting the same way. More recently with addition of some weight gained, I have been getting out of breath alot easier. It is uncomfortable and makes me just want to rest. 

I have been wanting to join the local rec center to do water aerobics for some time but havent wanted to go alone ..I need to get over this. I think if you are willing to help him out and take it slow but stay encouraging then this can help him feel better about himself because it is what he wants. There is nothing wrong with wanting to feel better, want to move easier and have more energy and that all varies from person to person. Good luck ..and wishing you and your friend much success and let us know how it is going


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## Hathor (Apr 20, 2011)

Sorry to ask this as I know it may start a big debate off topic, but what is considered SS-350+? 

Someone once told me I am a SSBBW when I was 345#. Now I'm around 320 or so. 

I'd like to contribute to this thread, but I wouldn't want to intrude on those who are SS and do have issues associated with the extra weight.


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## velia (Apr 20, 2011)

To the OP: I think your nonjudgmental attitude and encouragement will be huge. What Lilly mentioned about being careful if the gentleman is into you is definitely important. Make sure that if you're not also interested, you set clear boundaries about your intent. 

If you've already started a discussion about exercising and eating habits, and he's interested in your help, it's ok to politely ask him about things like whether he's comfortable discussing dietary choices with you. If he says he is, preface your questions with your intent-- in this case, to help support his goal of healthier eating habits. 

I wish your friend luck reaching his goals!


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## mossystate (Apr 20, 2011)

TimeTraveller said:


> Don't feel too bad if you miss something because at least you're trying. One would think that after watching my grade school sweetheart grow into the supersize woman she is today, and being married 3 decades plus, I'd know everything there is to know about taking good care of a supersize person. Yet I still get tripped up sometimes.
> 
> Case in point: A month ago we took a vacation in sunny New Mexico. In Santa Fe we booked La Fonda Hotel because it was historic, some friends had loved it, it was conveniently located next to the downtown plaza, and we decided to splurge. Good idea, right? Not quite. With 20/20 hindsight I should have asked our friends whether it was fat-friendly, but that's probably not something they would have noticed. It was great that the main downtown attractions were only a block or two away. However the hotel probably dates from the 1920s well before modern accessibility laws and we suspect it might have been joined together from previous properties. Esthetically it was a fabulous hotel with lots of interesting nooks and crannies everywhere. Practically, though, it was annoying on so many levels  literally. Three steps up here, eight steps down there, with elevators few and far between  if we could find them.
> 
> ...



Hi TT. Have you considered telling your wife about Dims and suggesting she come in and tell her stories of being a supersized person ?


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## vardon_grip (Apr 20, 2011)

mossystate said:


> Hi TT. Have you considered telling your wife about Dims and suggesting she come in and tell her stories of being a supersized person ?



Methinx that is not a bad idea.


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## TimeTraveller (Apr 20, 2011)

mossystate said:


> Hi TT. Have you considered telling your wife about Dims and suggesting she come in and tell her stories of being a supersized person ?


Yes I've told her but she has no interest in Dims. She's happy I love her size and I can admire it all I want, although from her perspective her fat is simply there and she personally has little desire to talk about it. I accept that.


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## tonynyc (Apr 20, 2011)

Dolce said:


> Before the mods move this to the Health, WLS, or BHM board please understand that I posted this on the Main Board since it gets a lot of traffic and I want the opinions of lots of SS people.
> 
> I recently found out that a super size friend of mine is seriously considering getting WLS. Every week or so I go to his home and do chores for him that he is unable to complete. While cleaning up I found some paperwork from our local hospital on WLS. I asked him if that was something he was considering and he said that yes, he would like to but that they want him to lose some weight first and change his eating habits. I began to ask more questions (we have never talked about his weight or eating habits before) and he expressed to me that he does want to regain his mobility and learn to eat better. *I think* that he feels very isolated because of his size and he expressed to me that sometimes he is even hesitant to go outside because he feels as though people only see his weight and judge him. He says that he finds it very difficult to talk to people, especially women but he feels comfortable with me. After talking a bit more I asked if he is able to go for short walks. He said he can but that he gets very winded. I said that was okay and every little bit counts. The more he does it, the easier it will get. So I offered for him to go on a short walk with me. He seemed very happy and we wound up walking a little less than 1/4 of a mile. I was so proud of him! Here is the thing... he would like for me to go walking with him more and assist him in finding nutritious foods that he enjoys but I am unsure how to go about it. I do not want to cross a boundary or ask super personal questions of him. I know he likes me and would probably walk farther than he is comfortable with just to please me.
> 
> ...



*W*ell hopefully you will be able to get some insight from a variety of responses in this thread - from those who are supersized as well as the folks who are caregivers to their SS partners-but, that is a whole other discussion...

Witrh respect to exercise - sometimes you have to be creative as far as what can be done- be it swimming OR if the person is bed bound using exercise equipment like Bodyblades...

Now if you wanted to see what it would feel like to be a larger person working out - the closest thing you could do is wear a 100lbs weighted vest...


BodyBlades






Weighted Vest


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## Jes (Apr 21, 2011)

tonynyc said:


> Now if you wanted to see what it would feel like to be a larger person working out - the closest thing you could do is wear a 100lbs weighted vest...
> 
> 
> BodyBlades
> ...



I don't know how to say this w/o it coming off as rude, and I honestly don't mean to be, but do you really think another image post is helpful, here? Dolce wants to know what it's like to be supersized so that she can have more constructive interactions with a SS friend of hers. Your post even admits that posts about caretakers of SS people is a 'whole other discussion' so is it necessarily relevant here? Do you really think she, or anyone else, is going to go buy a 100 lbs vest? Aren't the answers she's already getting helpful enough? Did you just want to post the picture?

I'm just really confused by this. I don't think you meant it to be funny, and so I'm not sure what you meant at all. Dolce may be fine with with the reply, but I have to admit I'm confused.


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 21, 2011)

tonynyc said:


> *W*ell hopefully you will be able to get some insight from a variety of responses in this thread - from those who are supersized as well as the folks who are caregivers to their SS partners-but, that is a whole other discussion...
> 
> Witrh respect to exercise - sometimes you have to be creative as far as what can be done- be it swimming OR if the person is bed bound using exercise equipment like Bodyblades...
> 
> ...



Tony I'm a little aprehensive as to how helpful the Bodyblades will be for a supersized person. I am by no means a professional or a physical therapist. I am however a professional ss person. I will say that the type of motion the body blades create is the type of motion I am trying to escape as a super sized person every day of my life. My entire body is a body blade. If I shake my body in any direction and stop on a dime it takes about 2.5 seconds at least before my body will completely stop moving. If you're a musclebound jock with barely a trace of body fat to be seen the body blades may be fine. For a supersized person with batwings, belly flab, back flab, thigh flab all competing with each other for dominance during any type of movement the body blade has the potential to be somewhat dangerous. I'm in danger of falling all the time, especially if I lose or gain any weight anywhere and my conditioning has not yet adjusted to the shift in weight, a weight distribution that is constantly changing in sublte ways. To my naked eye I would not be inclined to recommend anything that creates jarring movements to struggle against when a SS person already has so much of that going on at any given time. I admit I've not tested the device and I'm not an expert but I don't think that something like that will be helpful. The weighted vest also. The vest is predictable and stationary against a slim lean body that has already been conditioned to the outer limits. It does not swing helter skelter or pull you erratically as you move. It wont simulate a supersized person nor will the jarring of the body blade. These gimmicks seem to be good only for people who are already in top shape and want a challenge. SS people have enough challenges. Not meaning to make you feel unwelcomed here Tony.  I just feel I would be remiss if I don't say something.


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## superodalisque (Apr 21, 2011)

tonynyc said:


> *W*
> Now if you wanted to see what it would feel like to be a larger person working out - the closest thing you could do is wear a 100lbs weighted vest...
> 
> 
> ...



not necessarily because not all ss people carry all of their weight on their chest. a lot of the major challenges seem to be below the waist from many of us. even an apple probably doesn't necessarily feel that all weight is hanging from the shoulders.


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## Heyyou (Apr 21, 2011)

Dolce said:


> Before the mods move this to the Health, WLS, or BHM board please understand that I posted this on the Main Board since it gets a lot of traffic and I want the opinions of lots of SS people.
> 
> I recently found out that a super size friend of mine is seriously considering getting WLS. Every week or so I go to his home and do chores for him that he is unable to complete. While cleaning up I found some paperwork from our local hospital on WLS. I asked him if that was something he was considering and he said that yes, he would like to but that they want him to lose some weight first and change his eating habits. I began to ask more questions (we have never talked about his weight or eating habits before) and he expressed to me that he does want to regain his mobility and learn to eat better. *I think* that he feels very isolated because of his size and he expressed to me that sometimes he is even hesitant to go outside because he feels as though people only see his weight and judge him. He says that he finds it very difficult to talk to people, especially women but he feels comfortable with me. After talking a bit more I asked if he is able to go for short walks. He said he can but that he gets very winded. I said that was okay and every little bit counts. The more he does it, the easier it will get. So I offered for him to go on a short walk with me. He seemed very happy and we wound up walking a little less than 1/4 of a mile. I was so proud of him! Here is the thing... he would like for me to go walking with him more and assist him in finding nutritious foods that he enjoys but I am unsure how to go about it. I do not want to cross a boundary or ask super personal questions of him. I know he likes me and would probably walk farther than he is comfortable with just to please me.
> 
> ...



If she wants to get WLS, let her do it. Neither you, nor i, nor anyone else here can "talk her out of it." It is her own free will, and if it will make her happier and/or more mobile, even if scorned b others, tell her to do it if it is what her heart desires.

We can not portend to know what is best for her life, as FA or SSBBW as we may be.


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## LovelyLiz (Apr 21, 2011)

Never mind. I don't want to be resposiblne for the devolving of this thread that actually has some good insights in it....


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## mossystate (Apr 21, 2011)

I have been thinking about that picture. It's actually a good thing it was posted . I have seen so many comments from people who do seem to believe ( not talking about any particular people ) that fat, sometimes great amounts of fat, is just...there. There is a disconnect when it comes to how very large bodies move and how they affect the owner - good...bad...other.


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## Dolce (Apr 21, 2011)

Thank you everyone for your insights. We have begun walking together twice a week and he is doing great. We walk a little farther each time. By the time we are done his cheeks are all red and he is sweating but I always encourage him to breathe deeply, have a seat and that sweating is to be expected. He lets me know when he has had enough and we promptly turn around. He lets me check his feet and denies having any pain yet, which I am not sure I believe so I make sure we take it easy. We have talked about the importance of eating more fruits, vegetables and less of the processed stuff. He has taken to drinking almost a gallon of water a day, replaced his soda with juice, and is eating fruit. As soon as I graduate I will have more time and I plan on doing some cooking with him. I think he is the type that learns more hands on whereas I am big into theory. So I have to come up with some practical ways of demonstrating what a healthy diet looks like.

His doctor has him seeing a nutritionist and something I hear over and over again is the importance of portion sizes and everything in moderation. Personally, I think this can be counterproductive when trying to educate someone who wishes to adopt a more healthful lifestyle. It is my logic that if you take someone who typically eats large portions of fast and processed foods and try to switch them over to a lower calorie diet with portions the size of a deck of cards they will only last a few days before they binge because they feel like they are starving! I have a theory that it might be better to eat unlimited unprocessed foods for a month or two to first acclimate their body eating a clean diet. This would include, meats, fruits, vegetables, grains, beans, and nuts. Anything that is processed in any way would be a no, no! What do you all think?

I have to admit that I do have a little ulterior motive for asking everyone's advice. I would like to become a personal trainer and perhaps go back to school and get a degree in dietetics (along with my nursing degree) so that I can provide personal services to the SS who wish to get into better shape. My goal is not to make people slim, but to help them achieve personal fulfillment and improve their health and quality of life so that they can stay as far away from hospitals as possible. My friend knows about this and is happy to be one of my test cases. 

Someone asked what is considered super-sized. I suppose I do not have a definite definition but would say that if you feel marginalized by society because you are outside the "norm" weight wise then you might be super-sized. Everyone perceives everyone else differently so it is hard to make a judgment. 

Okay enough of my random blathering. But I really do appreciate everyone's advice. You have given me many ideas to ponder. Also, it was a great description by Lilly of what it feels like to have to swing around all that extra "adipose tissue"  Definitely helps me to make a mental picture of what he is going through.


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## mossystate (Apr 21, 2011)

Dolce said:


> I would like to become a personal trainer and perhaps go back to school and get a degree in dietetics (along with my nursing degree) so that I can provide personal services to the SS who wish to get into better shape. My goal is not to make people slim, but to help them achieve personal fulfillment and improve their health and quality of life so that they can stay as far away from hospitals as possible.



That sounds wonderful. 

As for your friends eating plan, is he struggling with it? If he is, you could always help him with questions and comments for his nutritionist. I suppose it all depends on the person? Some might do best when they can eat even small amounts of what is considered ' bad ' foods, and wouldn't be able to handle having none of those foods, ever. I consider myself one of those people. They might binge more if they can't have those couple of cookies. Also, many people cannot have unlimited amounts of any foods, even if it is broccoli. If a person has a problem with portions, the psychological hold can't change with unlimited amounts of anything. Even with diabetes, you don't have to eat whole chocolate cakes to be in danger. One thing that did jump out at me is when I saw that you said he drinks juice instead of pop. That can be a reallllllly bad thing, drinking much juice at all, from what I have read. And have you noticed how many commercials on television push juices these days. Crazy.
If he is really talking to his nutritionist, and they are open to understanding how people are individuals, then he should be able to find what will ultimately work for him and serve him best. He has a right to speak up. It's his life.


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## Dolce (Apr 21, 2011)

mossystate said:


> That sounds wonderful.
> 
> As for your friends eating plan, is he struggling with it? If he is, you could always help him with questions and comments for his nutritionist. I suppose it all depends on the person? Some might do best when they can eat even small amounts of what is considered ' bad ' foods, and wouldn't be able to handle having none of those foods, ever. I consider myself one of those people. They might binge more if they can't have those couple of cookies. Also, many people cannot have unlimited amounts of any foods, even if it is broccoli. If a person has a problem with portions, the psychological hold can't change with unlimited amounts of anything. Even with diabetes, you don't have to eat whole chocolate cakes to be in danger. One thing that did jump out at me is when I saw that you said he drinks juice instead of pop. That can be a reallllllly bad thing, drinking much juice at all, from what I have read. And have you noticed how many commercials on television push juices these days. Crazy.
> If he is really talking to his nutritionist, and they are open to understanding how people are individuals, then he should be able to find what will ultimately work for him and serve him best. He has a right to speak up. It's his life.



Thank you, Mossy. I really appreciate your insight. I agree that juice is not the best. But to go from drinking 2 liters of Coke daily to drinking a gallon of water and a few glasses of orange or grape juice is an improvement. That being said, he does not have diabetes. What have you heard about juice? I personally don't drink it because it is liquid sugar. 

I agree with you about the unlimited thing. I wouldn't want someone gorging themselves without regard to the emotional reasons behind the overeating. And of course the specific health issues have to be taken into account (diabetes, infections, heart disease, GI etc.) But my concern is that people who are 100, 200, 300 + over the standard weight are given the same dietary advice as someone who just wants to shed that extra 20 lbs. Shows like the "The Biggest Loser" definitely add to the misconception that the SS can lose tons of weight if they just try hard enough. I have no doubt that if I was able to take 3 months off of school and work and check myself into a medical spa which strictly limited my calories and forced me to exercise for 4 hours a day I would lose 40 lbs. easily. But in the real world we have to find real life solutions. I am just trying to find something that would be doable or at least some parameters being that everyone is different.


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## blueeyedevie (Apr 21, 2011)

If you lose some of your mobility due to size and inactivity how does it feel when you try to regain that mobility through exercise? Are there certain parts of your body that ache you more than others? Namely, what is your PHYSICAL reaction to exercise after long periods of inactivity?

What kinds of obstacles do you face as a super size person in your everyday life?

How can someone be of assistance emotionally and physically to a SS person in achieving personal goals?

Wow, this is like the best questions, and I think I can answer them. First Id just like to say that it is great when someone actually cares enough to ask the questions you are asking. According to how super sized your friend is, the starting point is just moving. When I was 700lbs, I could barely walk to the living room that was just two doors down. I would get exhausted going out to the car to ride to town. When you are that size and immobile, you feel like there is a world full of activity, and youre just an onlooker. I longed to be active, to be able to sweep my floors by myself, to cook, to shop. Call it pride, are being stubborn but I would not ride in a cart or a wheel chair, if I could not walk it, I just would not go. Which at that weight meant I didnt go anywhere? Now I have lost down to 440, I often have trouble remembering there are things I still cant do. Recently my friends planed a day at a local theme park, and my fiancé says to me Hun I dont think you can make a day there. He knows me pretty well and knows while I have come a long way, standing and walking all day is still next to impossible. 
Back when i was 700lbs my back and knees hurt all the time. Now its my upper thighs mainly due to my tummy. My back still hurts but I have had an injury. When you are trying to regain mobility you think your going to die on some days. I honestly would lay in bed saying  why do I bother , I am causing more pain then not. After enough time, finally the pain lessons and you can actually see progress. For me I started out walking back and forth to the living room-bedroom then I would lay in bed and do arm lifts, and leg lifts, then someone would help me sit up ( off the side of the bed) I cant believe I started out only being able to do three of those. Physical reaction, you cannot take an over sized person 700 or 400 and just expect they can exercise right off the bat, when they want to lose weight. Your body will tear down on you and you will end up sick if you try and rush the process. 
A supersized person is more than likely use to getting their way on some matters, I hate to say it but we didnt get that way alone after a point. For me as a super sized person it was not getting my way that was the one of the biggest struggle. Eating was part of that but, I did fine as long as the food I loved was not around. Meaning you sit a pizza down in front of me I am going to eat it, but if you dont have that I will eat correctly whatever there is to eat. Then and now its being ashamed that Is the biggest struggle. Right now I am struggling with wanting and needing to go to a gym. I have friends to go with and everything but I keep thinking how many 400lb women are going to be working out and How ashamed I am that I want be able to do near what my friends will be able to do. Back then it was just doing anything that shamed me. I wounded who was looking at me are talking about me.
Super sized struggles are a list that could go on and on. Chairs that dont fit, furniture that breaks, Everything is out of reach, personal care is almost impossible, clothes that dont fit, people pitying you are people who are just mean , breathing is a chore. Even for smaller SS people we have obstacles, example: theme parks with friends, stairs at the local beach, cars that are still too small, and clothes;nothing fits the way it should. 
There is no one way to be emotionally supportive to an individual trying to change their life from being super sized. Some may need nurture, some may need demanding, and some may just need you to be there for them. I always knew what I could and could not do, so for me it was more of someone just supporting me and holding me accountable for my actions. I needed to know someone cared enough about me that I would be letting them down if I failed. 

I have to admit that I do have a little ulterior motive for asking everyone's advice. I would like to become a personal trainer and perhaps go back to school and get a degree in dietetics (along with my nursing degree) so that I can provide personal services to the SS who wish to get into better shape. My goal is not to make people slim, but to help them achieve personal fulfillment and improve their health and quality of life so that they can stay as far away from hospitals as possible. My friend knows about this and is happy to be one of my test cases.

Making people understand slim isnt the most important thing will be a struggle. I just want to be fit I have no desire to be small. I just want to be able to walk more than a mile, play games with my friends, climb stairs to and from the beach, and breath It is good you know the difference. I am looking for a trainer, that works on next to nothing budget, but I am highly unlikely to find that. So I will keep on keeping on. The best advice I can give you on the trainer part is be firm but here what the client is telling you. Get trained and educated on a larger persons body and capabilities. We like to know the people that are helping us know what our bodies can and cant do.


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## squurp (Apr 21, 2011)

I am disappointed that this happened to you. I know maybe it is ancient history, but you deserve better. I hope someday you find it. You should not feel any guilt, rather it is the other you were with that should feel guilty.



CastingPearls said:


> Well, a whole bunch of things are running through my mind so I'll probably be back, but here's one example.
> 
> I've always wanted to go to Disneyworld, Busch Gardens, SeaWorld, state fairs, etc. and just walk around to my hearts content. I'm not only a big extrovert but also a people watcher and get a great deal of pleasure from this. Hell, I love malls, love supermarkets too and it's not enough that I can use a 'weenie wagon'--(that's what we called my mom's scooter) --I wanted to WALK.
> 
> ...


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## Yakatori (Apr 21, 2011)

Repeated for emph-AH-sis on the wrong syll-AH-ble:



Lamia said:


> "_*...Just standing a little bit each day would help. Walking would help too. I wouldn't advise doing much more than that until he build up some stamina...Swimming is THE BEST thing SS people can do as far as exercise..the only downside is you do so much the first time and the next day your muscles are killing you because you don't realize how much of a workout your muscles were actually getting because you have no fatigue like you out of water.*_"





blueeyedevie said:


> "_..I started out walking back and forth to the living room-bedroom then I would lay in bed and do arm lifts, and leg lifts, then someone would help me sit up ( off the side of the bed) I cant believe I started out only being able to do three of those.._"





Zandoz said:


> _...
> Don't try to get him to do too much too fast...pain is a punishment, not an incentive.
> Your attitude while helping him will be HUGE.
> _





tonynyc said:


> "_...*sometimes* you have to *be creative* as far as what can be done- be it *swimming* OR *if* the person is bed bound using *exercise equipment like..if you wanted to see what it would feel like to be a larger person working out - the closest thing you could do* is wear a 100lbs weighted vest..._"


Right, exactly. Basically, you wouldn't be doing housework; cleaning base-boards, cleaning under your kitchen or bathroom sink, going up on a ladder, ect..; with a weighted-vest on. Likewise, you wouldn't see most people in a gym doing the standard calisthenics; push-ups, sit-ups, etc..; with a weighted vest on. You want to avoid anything where the abdominals or lower-back and lower-joints become more isolated or are otherwise more exclusively engaged than it would be just by moving in an upright position, because they're already getting sufficient work by carrying all that weight. A compression garment, some sort of abdominal or back-support is something that you want to be looking into. Some people might need ankle or knee support, etc..If it's possible, try a few different things to see what's most comfortable. It may not, at first, seem like it makes a big-difference. But these types of supports, even when you feel fine without them, can go a long way toward increasing your stamina when it comes to an upright-workout, like walking; which, in turn, allows you to condition your heart and lungs more efficiently as well as burn lots of calories. 



Dolce said:


> ...something I hear over and over again is the importance of portion sizes and everything in moderation. Personally, I think this *can be* counterproductive when trying to educate someone who wishes to adopt a more healthful lifestyle...if you take someone who typically eats large portions of fast and processed foods and try to switch them over to a lower calorie diet with portions the size of a deck of cards... better to eat unlimited unprocessed foods for a month or two to first acclimate their body eating a clean diet...* Anything that is processed in any way would be a no, no!*"


If you increase your activity-level, then it makes most sense to increase your calories. Since you burn most of your calories at rest, even a very small caloric deficit can result in effective weight-loss. Even a very small change in actual weight-loss; let's say, a 20lbs difference of fat and excess water relative to the same amount of lean-body mass on a 500lbs person; can make a significant difference in a person's day to day life, energy-level, range of motion, ability to move without pain, basic comfort, etc.. The portioning is not just to watch calories on the whole as much as it's to spread nutrition out throughout the time of day when a person is most active, so as to avoid any sudden spikes and drops in blood sugar. Also, there's really no such thing as a "clean" diet. There's toxins all around us, and our bodies deal with it. However, it is true that the fewer toxins you ingest or encounter through your environment and the more consistently you're getting enough water, the better and more efficiently your liver can deal the toxins that are stored in the fat which you're trying to metabolize. And, provided that you're doing a bunch of other things better than you normally would, this could help you to metabolize more fat more easily. But it's not like you can microwave this process or that doing any one of these things to more of an extreme will more likely result in better or longer-term benefits. It's generally more likely to be the opposite-case. 



mossystate said:


> ...Also, *many* people cannot have unlimited amounts of any foods, *even if it is broccoli*. If a person has a problem with portions, *the psychological hold can't change with unlimited amounts of anything*...he drinks juice instead of pop. That can be *a reallllllly bad thing*, drinking much juice at all, from what I have read...


Yeah, you can eat too many carrots. And you can also kill someone with a rolled up newspaper. It's just so much easier to mess with your blood-sugar with a 32 ounce portion of soda and a large popcorn and a candy-bar than it is if you try to eat equal amounts of raw vegetables, brown rice and broiled chicken-breast. Eating these types of things, allowing yourself as much of them as you want, along with drinking lots of water on a consistent basis, can sort of condition you to consider your hunger and thirst on a deeper level; e.g Am I really hungry or thirsty? Or, if I am hungry, why don't I start with all this nutrient-dense food first and then work my way over to whatever it is that I prefer the taste-of?



Dolce said:


> ...I agree that juice is not the best. But to go from drinking 2 liters of Coke daily to drinking a gallon of water and a few glasses of orange or grape juice is *an improvement*...


Yeah, it's just a matter of trade-offs. That's why Weight-Watchers pushes that card system; to get people thinking along the lines of balancing "Can I trade this for that?" You can definitely eat too much fruit. But any piece of fruit is typically better than the alternative of consuming that same amount of calories in the form of the juice of that fruit. Just as juice is typically better than the same amount of calories you would otherwise consume in most sodas. Just as a can of Coke and a gallon of water, is better than 3 liters of Coke and no water. Just as a can of Coke and a BLT is better than just just a can of Coke. Just as a can of Coke is better than nothing at all. ect...



Dolce said:


> my concern is that *people who are 100, 200, 300 + over the standard weight are given the same dietary advice as someone who just wants to shed that extra 20 lbs.*"



Nah, that's not really the problem, at least not from a dietary stand-point. Because the principles at work are generally no-less and no more applicable for a Super-fat person. The source of a lot of the problems, as far as weight loss efforts contributing to actual weight-gain, seem to arise from the implicit sense that these principles can be applied to an infinite degree: e.g, "If I can lose up to a pound a week, through a daily deficit of 500 calories; can I ultimately lose that much more weight that much more quickly if I increase this deficit to 700 calories or 1000 calories or 1500 calories, ect..and so on. 

Generally, the more that this type of thing becomes the focus of a person's life; the more effort/self discipline it consistently requires of them, the more time they spend on it on a daily basis; the harder it will be and, therefore, that much less likely that they will ultimately persist in it on an on-going basis in order to derive the largest possible benefit. 



Dolce said:


> "_I have to admit that I do have a little ulterior motive for asking everyone's advice. I would like to..._"


And this is really where it will be hardest for you to strike some kind of practical balance: After all, what might one day be your job/specialty is merely only a part of his life. And, obviously, only part of the friendship for either of you. Make sure you have one eye on maintaining some kind of balance between this thing and whatever else it is you have in common. Otherwise you put both in jeopardy. For example, while I think Evie's post has enough in it that bears repeating (better you should read it thrice, than to think as much about what I have to say), I would only object to one thing that I think could as easily lead you down the wrong path:



blueeyedevie said:


> "_..I I needed to know someone cared enough about me that I would be letting them down if I failed..._"


*

Point is, the motivation has to, at some level, come from within. There can often and easily seem like a very fine line between empowering someone to do what it is they truly want to do versus imposing your own will on them. 

Example: I used to feel pretty confident that I was the fattest person at my gym; that is, until I happened to walk past the pool one day and saw a bunch of fattys engaged in some sort of organized water-activity class. Did I join their group? No, but I did, from that point, start to seriously consider why I wasn't using the pool more. Until, one day, I got into the pool. And, now, that's as important a part of my regime as anything else. Just getting someone to consider to consider, however briefly, what is possible can often have the greatest impact of anything you can do.*


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## mossystate (Apr 21, 2011)

_" Yeah, you can eat too many carrots. And you can also kill someone with a rolled up newspaper. *It's just so much easier to mess with your blood-sugar with a 32 ounce portion of soda and a large popcorn and a candy-bar than it is if you try to eat equal amounts of raw vegetables, brown rice and broiled chicken-breast. *Eating these types of things, allowing yourself as much of them as you want, along with drinking lots of water on a consistent basis, can sort of condition you to consider your hunger and thirst on a deeper level; e.g Am I really hungry or thirsty? Or, if I am hungry, why don't I start with all this nutrient-dense food first and then work my way over to whatever it is that I prefer the taste-of? "_
----
I didn't know that.

Like I said...a person who is accustomed to eating large amounts of anything is not as likely to be able to stop at a couple of cookies. So, unless they will never again...never...eat another cookie, they would do better to get the amounts under some control. You are not at all taking the psychological into consideration. A majority of people know a carrot is not a cookie.


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## Yakatori (Apr 21, 2011)

mossystate said:


> "_..You are not at all taking the psychological into consideration. A majority of people know a carrot is not a cookie._"


 I feel that I am. I would guess that we can agree that our psychological perspective is informed by our physical experience. So, I'm just saying that the quantity-difference may be more difficult to adjust to than the minute actual net-loss of calories. So, maybe, the calorie-loss should be adjusted to first; that is, if we can only adjust to a little of one or the other at any given time.

If I put a 5lb bag of Gummi Bears in front of people, many of them will be able to finish-it, no-problem. But if I say "Can you eat this 5lb bag of raw carrots (skins & all) first?," I'll probably get punched in the face...: 

No, but seriously; for those who don't punch me in the face, there will be a lot that will eat a few carrots and push the Gummi Bears away, without feeling as deprived as they would even if had just gave them a half a pound of Gummi-Bears just to eat however they choosed. This effect increases as I add things like lean protein, water, more complex carbohydrates, etc.... A carrot certainly does not look or taste like a Gummi Bear and no-one will be fooled. But the question is, will they look at the Gummi Bear just a little bit differently? I say they will.


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## Dolce (Apr 22, 2011)

Blueeyeddevie, Your response is so much win that I am having difficulty just picking out the parts that I want to reply to specifically. But I will try...

*"Physical reaction, you cannot take an over sized person 700 or 400 and just expect they can exercise right off the bat, when they want to lose weight. Your body will tear down on you and you will end up sick if you try and rush the process." *

This is my greatest concern. So often we want that instant gratification and think just because something doesn't hurt right now, does not mean that it wont hurt later. We'll be sure to take it slow and easy. As time goes on I might start to incorporate some light stretching and massage along with epsom salt foot baths. 


*"A supersized person is more than likely use to getting their way on some matters, I hate to say it but we didn’t get that way alone after a point. For me as a super sized person it was not getting my way that was the one of the biggest struggle."*

So how have you worked out not getting your way all the time? What did your fiance and friends do keep from enabling your attitude. I mean how did you even begin to change? I have encountered that attitude and I have a difficult time breaking through that wall. As I have always said, you can only help people who want to help themselves. I have more to say on this but I am not able to articulate my thoughts well enough at the moment. 

*"I did fine as long as the food I loved was not around."
*
The super-sized do not have a monopoly on this problem! I can relate entirely. If it is in my house and my blood sugar is dropping fast you can bet that I will eat chocolate or pizza until I feel sick. Even then I can usually down one more slice. I guess the remedy to that problem is to NOT have it in the house. If you feel yourself getting hungry or cranky better to eat anything until you are full than that (pizza/candy etc.) because we both know what kind of a reaction that sets off. You feel good for about 10 minutes until all the insulin kicks in and then you start to feel kind of sick from eating all that junk. About an hour later you are back to craving more candy to get that high again. The physiological and psychological are more intertwined that you might think. 
*
"Then and now its being ashamed that Is the biggest struggle. Right now I am struggling with wanting and needing to go to a gym. I have friends to go with and everything but I keep thinking how many 400lb women are going to be working out and How ashamed I am that I want be able to do near what my friends will be able to do. Back then it was just doing anything that shamed me. I wounded who was looking at me are talking about me."*
It sounds like you have all the support you need but it is something you are going to have to find the inner strength to do for yourself eventually. I can't say that I know exactly how you feel being that I was only 230 at my biggest but I can definitely empathize with the feeling of not wanting to go anywhere because you are worried what people will think of you. And to be honest I guess someone of that size does stick out. Perhaps having your friends stick really close to you, almost huddle you at first would help. That way you are protected and it gives off a primal message that hey, "don't mess with this girl because she is loved and cared for by her friends." Also they can keep you busy and focused on the task at hand. Or another idea is that maybe you or one of your friends could talk to the staff at the gym and see if there is a time of day when a private room would be available or if you could use the pool alone for an hour a week. But it would be a shame to not go to a gym because you feel you are too big. That is an injustice no big person should have to endure. I'll kick anyone's ass you gives you a sideways look!!!!  As for my friend, I can tell that having me around gives him a ton of confidence because he senses how proud he makes me. I am delighted to tag along on his journey and don't give a rats ass about what ignorant and bigoted people think. They can kiss my round butt for all I care. Now when it comes to my insecurities that's a whole 'nother deal. But I am pretty good at protecting others. 

*"Making people understand slim isn’t the most important thing will be a struggle. I just want to be fit I have no desire to be small. I just want to be able to walk more than a mile, play games with my friends, climb stairs to and from the beach, and breath… It is good you know the difference."*

It is obvious that you have overcome a lot. And you understand the value of living. The changes you went through were not simply for vanity but so that you could survive! People that have to overcome their weaknesses in order to survive are some of the strongest, most stubborn people you will ever meet because humility is gained in the struggle. Most people are looking to lose a few pounds, maybe get a little fitter but have no idea about the struggles a SS person faces. I was not really aware of this until I began my nursing education. Despite the fact that many of the nurses are a good 50 - 100 lbs. overweight I have found the discrimination they inflict on the SS in your typical clinic or acute care setting to be APPALLING to say the least. I was horrified to see that doctors and nurses would say cruel and mean things to their faces and often the SS person would APOLOGIZE as if they deserved to be treated in such a way. And the things that were said out of earshot were even worse. It goes without saying that I told them to shut up in so many words and complained to administration as well as the program director.

I am hesitant to blame diseases such a diabetes, heart disease, and stroke on body fat alone as I have seen plenty of thin people with these diseases but I think it is worth noting that nutrition does seem to play a vital role in the progression of many diseases. That is why I feel it is so important that the SS have health care providers that understand their specific needs when assisting them in making lifestyle changes. Losing weight is not a cure all. And it should not be the focus of care. Like you say, at that size even personal cares can become impossible to perform and the SS deserve providers that will assist them with dignity and respect.

But back to my original point. After a person grows to be a certain size it is no longer about having the luxury of simply dropping some weight to make society happy or to fit into some jeans. It is a struggle just to walk and breath. But for some people it takes getting to that point (I am not just talking about weight here) before they get off their high horse and realize they need to change a lot of things about their character. I may have never been super-sized but I know what this is like, to be broken down from the core only to rebuild yourself. So I have tons of empathy for people that are willing to take that step to humble themselves and in doing that find their strength.


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## Dolce (Apr 22, 2011)

Yakatori said:


> A carrot certainly does not look or taste like a Gummi Bear and no-one will be fooled. But the question is, will they look at the Gummi Bear just a little bit differently? I say they will.




Amen! I cannot tell you how many bags of carrots I have eaten! My skin is orange  Just tonight I was craving some chocolate candies. Instead I ate half a rotisserie chicken, a banana, about 15 clementine oranges, and a large salad with avocado, tomato, and cucumber. Now I am sure I had a lot of calories (though not as many as I would have eaten had I started in on the M&M's) but I also ate a lot of nutrients and I no longer crave that candy because I am full of good food. Because I did not eat the sweets I will avoid the sugar high and low and will be satiated the rest of the evening. By eating like this I am able to avoid the high and crash that comes from eating sweets. And because my body is accustomed to eating what I call "clean" foods I can tell the difference now between real hunger and the hunger that comes from being stressed or feeling insecure. But when you are used to eating cookies every day it becomes difficult to distinguish between the two because of that constant sugar high and low that processed foods cause. Do I ever eat cookies or chocolate? Yes. But more often than not it results in a binge. For that reason I try not to keep it in the house and when I do eat it I try to fill up on carrots first. 

Yakatori, thank you so much for all your advice. And I really like the positive attitude you deliver it with!


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## Dolce (Apr 22, 2011)

Yakatori said:


> Nah, that's not really the problem, at least not from a dietary stand-point. Because the principles at work are generally no-less and no more applicable for a Super-fat person. The source of a lot of the problems, as far as weight loss efforts contributing to actual weight-gain, seem to arise from the implicit sense that these principles can be applied to an infinite degree: e.g, "If I can lose up to a pound a week, through a daily deficit of 500 calories; can I ultimately lose that much more weight that much more quickly if I increase this deficit to 700 calories or 1000 calories or 1500 calories, ect..and so on.



I am not sure I am following you 100% here but this is my take.. 

A person who wants to lose a few pounds is going to have an easier time reducing their portion sizes than a SS person who is trying to change their lifestyle. They are not going to have the same physical reaction to the reduction in food because one, they are not accustomed to eating large amounts of refined sugars and grains and two, they do not need as many calories as a 500 lb. pound person needs to maintain their body weight. So when a super-size person is told that all foods are okay as long as you eat these teeny tiny portions, they fall off the wagon very quickly because they are not satiated. They first need to switch their diet over to one of whole foods and begin getting some basic exercise before they even think of restricting intake. As you have said, it is more metabolically sound for someone to eat 5 servings of fruit, half a chicken, and a huge salad than to eat 3 boxes of little debbies, a pizza, and a two liter of soda. Both will fill you up but the former will provide nutrition, satiate the person, and prevent blood sugar swings. A calorie is not just a calorie. Depending on the source of the calorie it is metabolized very differently within the body. 

[/QUOTE]And this is really where it will be hardest for you to strike some kind of practical balance: After all, what might one day be your job/specialty is merely only a part of his life. And, obviously, only part of the friendship for either of you. Make sure you have one eye on maintaining some kind of balance between this thing and whatever else it is you have in common. 
[/QUOTE]

"Let not a man guard his dignity, but let his dignity guard him." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

You are not the first person in this thread to bring this to my attention and while I understand the concern, I can assure you all the situation is more unique than you might think and that we both have good boundaries in place.


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## Dolce (Apr 22, 2011)

mossystate said:


> I didn't know that.



If you have some time on your hands, check out the video and article I posted in the Health Forum. It explains it better than I ever could. But yes, it is very hard to mess up your blood sugar eating raw fruits, veggies, and meat.

http://dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84292


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## mossystate (Apr 22, 2011)

Dolce said:


> If you have some time on your hands, check out the video and article I posted in the Health Forum. It explains it better than I ever could. But yes, it is very hard to mess up your blood sugar eating raw fruits, veggies, and meat.
> 
> http://dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84292



Dolce, I was being sarcastic. It was the best response to what I read.


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## TimeTraveller (Apr 22, 2011)

The topic becomes more fascinating every day. I thought I knew everything there was to know about adoring my supersize wife, but obviously I still have much to learn. That's okay, I'm a very willing student. 

On reflection, though, maybe I'm a "victim" of my own success? My wife has to carry a great amount of fat, yet she maintains that it's simply there and no big deal. At the same time, I try my best to maintain a fat-friendly environment for her, from the furniture in our house to the cars we drive to the places we visit in our daily lives and when we travel. Maybe, just maybe, I've become so good at minimizing the obstacles in her life as a very fat woman that obesity really is only a minor inconvenience for her? That is, until we're a situation where she is reminded just how big and fat she is. That happened a few times on vacation last month. 

I do all the house cleaning although she won't trust me with the laundry. I may one of the few husbands who likes to go shopping with his wife, so I can carry her purchases. I also make sure she doesn't stand in one place too long. If restaurant is seating is uncomfortable for her, no problem, we'll sit somewhere else, or even go to a different restaurant. (Sometimes I think trendy restaurants intentionally have long waits and uncomfortable seating so their trendy clientele think they're "lucky" to even get a table and a trendy but only semi-edible meal.) If a hotel has too many steps or the corridors are too small or crowded or the general layout is annoying, no problem, I'll pack up everything and move us to another hotel. My wife hates steps, not because they are tiring, but because she is afraid of tripping, and when she bends over to to watch her feet the weight of her fat shifts so much it affects her balance, and she's afraid she'll fall. On vacation I handle all the luggage, including an extra suitcase full of her special pillows. Once when I was loading the hotel luggage cart she said I was so good to her for handling it all. Without really thinking I replied, "You just carry all that gorgeous fat and I'll carry everything else." Does that make me an enabler? Maybe so, but that's no bad thing. 

Years ago I usually dropped off my wife at the entrance to a building and then parked the car. However she said if it's not too far she'd prefer I park first and we walk in together so she doesn't need to stand alone at the entrance even for few minutes, we can walk arm-in-arm, and I'm there to open doors for her, scope out the place, etc. My wife is an independent woman who can handle herself just fine, but she likes it better when I'm around to make everything go more smoothly. 

So even though I don't live in a fat body and cannot personally know what it's like to be as fat as my wife is, I do try to understand. I also try to maintain a fat-friendly, or at least a fat-friendlier, environment for her simply by being observant and by picking up on her unspoken signals. This topic is a invaluable. Thank you. :bow:


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 22, 2011)

mossystate said:


> Dolce, I was being sarcastic. It was the best response to what I read.



I'm so glad, because I laughed like a fool when I read it. I would have been really disappointed.


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 22, 2011)

Yakatori said:


> I feel that I am. I would guess that we can agree that our psychological perspective is informed by our physical experience. So, I'm just saying that the quantity-difference may be more difficult to adjust to than the minute actual net-loss of calories. So, maybe, the calorie-loss should be adjusted to first; that is, if we can only adjust to a little of one or the other at any given time.
> 
> If I put a 5lb bag of Gummi Bears in front of people, many of them will be able to finish-it, no-problem. But if I say "Can you eat this 5lb bag of raw carrots (skins & all) first?," I'll probably get punched in the face...:
> 
> No, but seriously; for those who don't punch me in the face, there will be a lot that will eat a few carrots and push the Gummi Bears away, without feeling as deprived as they would even if had just gave them a half a pound of Gummi-Bears just to eat however they choosed. This effect increases as I add things like lean protein, water, more complex carbohydrates, etc.... A carrot certainly does not look or taste like a Gummi Bear and no-one will be fooled. But the question is, will they look at the Gummi Bear just a little bit differently? I say they will.



If the body needs something, be it fat or sugar or iron etc., no amount of brown rice is going to fix it. Stuffing yourself with empty unsatisfying calories will only compound the problem and make it worse. The metabolism is a powerful force. When you start trying to mess with it you will eat 5 cookies and half a bottle of orange Crush. Deprivation doesn't work, everybody knows that. And being super sized is no smoking gun that there is an eating disorder that requires brown rice to fix. For those it helps I'm happy for but for the rest of us who have fainting spells in banks adhering to this mumbo jumbo it only amounts to another form of disordered eating.


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## mossystate (Apr 22, 2011)

TimeTraveller said:


> Yes I've told her but she has no interest in Dims. She's happy I love her size and I can admire it all I want, although from her perspective her fat is simply there and she personally has little desire to talk about it. I accept that.



Ah, OK. Yeah, sometimes a person can just feel all talked out.


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## mossystate (Apr 22, 2011)

LillyBBBW said:


> I'm so glad, because I laughed like a fool when I read it. I would have been really disappointed.



Just trying to shake up the way I deliver my sarcasm, Lilly. It's all part of the service I provide.
:smitten:


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## joswitch (Apr 22, 2011)

Heyyou said:


> If she wants to get WLS, let her do it. Neither you, nor i, nor anyone else here can "talk her out of it." It is her own free will, and if it will make her happier and/or more mobile, even if scorned b others, tell her to do it if it is what her heart desires.
> 
> We can not portend to know what is best for her life, as FA or SSBBW as we may be.



Your assumptions are showing:

Dolce said:_
"Every week or so I go to *his* home and do chores for *him* that *he* is unable to complete."_

Not every FA is a guy, not every supersized person is a woman.


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## joswitch (Apr 22, 2011)

This is a very small footnote to the thread, it's not Supersize specific, so I don't know if it will help anyone, but maybe - so here goes...

CP and a lot of others mentioned the foot pain - specifically the burning pain in the feet. 

Since I've been teaching out here, and it's got warmer I've been wearing thin soled sneakers - in conjunction with the hard, tiled / marble / stone floors EVERYWHERE my feet are often killing me (and I'm only 170lbs). I'm lucky that I live right next to the sea - paddling in the cool water and walking on the sand REALLY helps reduce the foot pain / improve the circulation.

Now, I know that most people don't leave on the beach, and if you're supersized walking on shifting sand may be a risk - re. falling? How about a bowl / bucket / bath part filled with sand and part with salt water to dip your feet and ease them off after walking? You could do that while seated...

Just a thought, maybe it'll help someone?


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## blueeyedevie (Apr 25, 2011)

> "A supersized person is more than likely use to getting their way on some matters, I hate to say it but we didnt get that way alone after a point. For me as a super sized person it was not getting my way that was the one of the biggest struggle."
> 
> So how have you worked out not getting your way all the time? What did your fiance and friends do keep from enabling your attitude. I mean how did you even begin to change? I have encountered that attitude and I have a difficult time breaking through that wall. As I have always said, you can only help people who want to help themselves. I have more to say on this but I am not able to articulate my thoughts well enough at the moment.



its funny , that you ask, at first getting my way, was not a issue, I wanted someone to tell me no so I didn't have to tell my self. I find my self pretty independent now and when I don't get my way ( especially about food) i get really upset. I have a couple reasons why. One I am struggling to loose weight right now. I cant seem to keep the weight lost moving forward and that is devastating for me. Second I hate being told what to do. So the other day when My guy told me We were not going out to dinner, I become in a totally bad mood. In fact I ate a whole carton of chocolate covered marshmallows. In my head , I was hungry , tried and just wanted to eat. I would have ate chicken probably and it would have been half way good for me, but instead because I was told no, I ate all the chocolate but really who was that hurting ? me and only me. I do and have been helping my self but It is still a battle with me. Getting my way or not getting it can change my mood the whole day. I do have to say its not just about bad things. I can't get my guy to walk with me, and where we are living I would prefer someone to walk with. Well because i don't get my way with that, I tend to pout and eat. Wow I sound really spoiled. Yet I'm not. I rarely get my way at anything, which I can handle it just when it comes to my weight issues that I have the big deal. I don't know why this is. It is just that way.


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## Jes (Apr 25, 2011)

blueeyedevie said:


> its funny , that you ask, at first getting my way, was not a issue, I wanted someone to tell me no so I didn't have to tell my self. I find my self pretty independent now and when I don't get my way ( especially about food) i get really upset. I have a couple reasons why. One I am struggling to loose weight right now. I cant seem to keep the weight lost moving forward and that is devastating for me. Second I hate being told what to do. So the other day when My guy told me We were not going out to dinner, I become in a totally bad mood. In fact I ate a whole carton of chocolate covered marshmallows. In my head , I was hungry , tried and just wanted to eat. I would have ate chicken probably and it would have been half way good for me, but instead because I was told no, I ate all the chocolate but really who was that hurting ? me and only me. I do and have been helping my self but It is still a battle with me. Getting my way or not getting it can change my mood the whole day. I do have to say its not just about bad things. I can't get my guy to walk with me, and where we are living I would prefer someone to walk with. Well because i don't get my way with that, I tend to pout and eat. Wow I sound really spoiled. Yet I'm not. I rarely get my way at anything, which I can handle it just when it comes to my weight issues that I have the big deal. I don't know why this is. It is just that way.


Thanks for being honest about this. I sometimes watch programs about SS people on tv and I don't really understand the dynamics of the relationship when food is involved. Your explanation of wanting to get your own way and then showing your disappointment/anger at your BF by binging is eye opening.


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 26, 2011)

blueeyedevie said:


> its funny , that you ask, at first getting my way, was not a issue, I wanted someone to tell me no so I didn't have to tell my self. I find my self pretty independent now and when I don't get my way ( especially about food) i get really upset. I have a couple reasons why. One I am struggling to loose weight right now. I cant seem to keep the weight lost moving forward and that is devastating for me. Second I hate being told what to do. So the other day when My guy told me We were not going out to dinner, I become in a totally bad mood. In fact I ate a whole carton of chocolate covered marshmallows. In my head , I was hungry , tried and just wanted to eat. I would have ate chicken probably and it would have been half way good for me, but instead because I was told no, I ate all the chocolate but really who was that hurting ? me and only me. I do and have been helping my self but It is still a battle with me. Getting my way or not getting it can change my mood the whole day. I do have to say its not just about bad things. I can't get my guy to walk with me, and where we are living I would prefer someone to walk with. Well because i don't get my way with that, I tend to pout and eat. Wow I sound really spoiled. Yet I'm not. I rarely get my way at anything, which I can handle it just when it comes to my weight issues that I have the big deal. I don't know why this is. It is just that way.



I quit smoking years ago yet when I feel that things are out of control I have a major urge to smoke. It seemingly comes from out of nowhere. Once or twice I've broken down and bought a pack of ciggs and lit one only to regret it after the first three puffs and then throw them away. I feel awful about it both figuratively and litterally. The ciggs make me sick as a dog now. It helps too now that ciggs are $8 a pack so I don't want to throw my money away only to feel like vomiting after. Life isn't a smooth run for me either by any means but usually it's a particular kind of loss of control of my domain and circumstances that will trigger the urge to smoke. The worry and uncertainty are much more personal in some ways. I'm not a spoiled person either and I'm very adept at roughing things out. I think that's what makes it moreso a problem for most people who are used to being in control. When we simply can't be we all have to cope with it on some way or another. This is something that almost everyone struggles with in some way. It would be great if we were inclined to settle all differences with a good run, a 20 minute yogic cooldown or metal but how many people are actually doing that? Most people use booze, drugs, cigarettes and/or food. *shrugs* These days I just yell at people.


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## SuperMishe (Apr 26, 2011)

joswitch said:


> This is a very small footnote to the thread, it's not Supersize specific, so I don't know if it will help anyone, but maybe - so here goes...
> 
> CP and a lot of others mentioned the foot pain - specifically the burning pain in the feet.
> 
> ...



As an SS person, these are the types of suggestions that discourage me the most. At the end of the day, my feet are killing me, even though I have a very sedentary job. The thought of going home, feeding the cats, getting changed and doing anything else I might have to do like scoop kitty litter or start laundry is daunting enough, but now I need to fill a bucket with water and sand, walk it to the living room without spilling it, soak my feet, dry them off really well, return the water/sand to the kitchen/bathroom and empty it and clean it out... while the suggestion may be a good one and might help someone, for me, it's another thing that will add to my pain and exhaustion.


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## Yakatori (Apr 26, 2011)

Dolce said:


> "_You are not the first person in this thread to bring this to my attention and while I understand the concern, I can assure you all the situation is more unique than you might think and that we both have good boundaries in place._"


Hmm...I'm not really implying anything. Or at least I'm not implying what I think you think I'm implying. I dunno. Hopefully my meaning's not too oblique.



Dolce said:


> "_A person who wants to lose a few pounds is going to have an easier time reducing their portion sizes than a SS person who is trying to change their lifestyle. They are not going to have the same physical reaction to *the reduction in food* because one, they are not accustomed to eating large amounts of refined sugars and grains and two, *they do not need as many calories as a 500 lb. pound person needs* to maintain their body weight. So *when a super-size person is told that all foods are okay as long as you eat these teeny tiny portions, they fall off the wagon very quickly because they are not satiated.*_"


I would definitely agree that the bigger you are and the more food you are used to having, the more you will need to consume before you don't notice a difference. But, there's a difference between limiting portions versus reducing, however slightly, total daily caloric intake. At the risk of over-explaining, you could say that one portion of protein is an amount of lean meat or fish about the size of the palm of your hand. And one portion of vegetables could be an amount equal to that weight of broccoli or beets or carrots, etc.. And maybe one portion of carbohydrates is equal to twice that weight in cooked rice or potato or whole-grain pasta, etc.. All that's really determining, and quite roughly at that, is the proportions of each of those elements; it's not doing anything to actually restrict calories unless you commit to a certain amount of meals per-day.

Now, realistically, and in my own personal experience, unless you're very organized or you don't have anything else to do, it would be very difficult, if not impossible to get in six meals a day. I mean, I'm not gonna say that there aren't days when I've managed to do that; but it's just not realistic for me to expect myself to spread-out my intake like that on a consistent basis. So, if I manage to get my first meal-in within 20 minutes of waking; and I try to do this regardless whether or not I'm actually feeling hungry; then I feel like I've started on a good note, because that's my most important meal of the day. While I can't really guarantee exactly when it will be that I will have my second or third meal, my next priority is to have eaten 1-2 hours immediately prior to working-out and again as soon as possible right after it. Often I will pack a meal or two in my trunk for this very purpose.

Otherwise, for me, there's really no pre-set limit of daily caloric-intake. Obviously, given the priority I give to those three meals, there's a minimum. But the top-end is really only limited by time-constraints and satiety: I obviously can't eat immediately before working out, nor during a workout (at least not very much, not practically), nor can I while I'm sleeping. Although I make some effort not to eat very soon before going to bed; it's not like I won't go to sleep about a half an hour after eating if I'm tired. And while I would try not to eat again after less than an hour has passed since my last meal, it's not like I won't do so when just beyond that mark. Actually, if there's one time of day when I'm most likely to do this, it's the meal after the meal immediately following a workout. Or, time allowing, the meal following that one. Because, at that point, my metabolism is pretty high. 

Of course, water is a big factor in all of this: I dropped a family member off at the chiropractor a few months ago and she (a practitioner of holistic medicine) noticed how fat I was and offered to give me a free consultation for some weight-loss/cleanse program she was selling. Obviously, I did not buy it; but, in the process, she gave me a Ph balance test, gave me a run-down, etc... One of the suggestions she made, which I attempted to implement, was to try to drink half an ounce of water for every pound of body weight. So, without getting into how much I weigh; let me just say, it's an awful lot of water and, despite some consistent effort, I have yet to actually accomplish this feat on more than two days consecutively. And I've lost weight, 54 lbs since January, and I still have trouble with the adjusted amount.

So, yeah, in a sense I am ultimately talking about reducing calories, but, on a day to day basis, not by too much and less so on a weekly basis. But, really, whose calories don't fluctuate somewhat? I would guess that on the days I get in six meals, I'm actually getting more calories than what I otherwise normally would've consumed on some days of the week. Just much less so in the course of one or two or three meals, and never so much that I don't feel like getting up and moving after I'm done. So, no, I don't get the kind of euphoria I would normally feel after an afternoon of Korean BBQ. But, the trade-off is that I don't have that crash afterward, where I want to crawl into bed and take a nap. I'm certainly not "full" after those meals. But I'm very rarely actually hungry, except at the very end of a workout, and never as hungry as I was when I would wake-up and wait a few hours before eating or drinking any water, and then something would come up and I would just not get to a meal until I was really cranky. 




Dolce said:


> "_*They first need to switch their diet over to one of whole foods*and begin getting some basic exercise before they even think of restricting intake. As you have said, it is more metabolically sound for someone to eat 5 servings of fruit, half a chicken, and a huge salad than to eat 3 boxes of little debbies, a pizza, and a two liter of soda... _"


But, for a lot of people, if you switched all of their normal amount of calories over to whole foods, you would tend to find that, in order to deal with that increase in fiber, it would, naturally, have the effect of slowing their caloric consumption, which might well result in a reduction of daily caloric intake. For me, the most important thing is not to wait too long between meals, to keep the calories coming, even if at a slower pace. So much so, that, I don't really pay that much attention to what's in any given meal aside from that it's got to have enough of those three components, plus water. 

So, as much as I like the idea of organic and whole foods; and I think it's great for anyone who can consistently afford it and has the time to prepare everything; I would recommend for anyone to spend their money on a few other things first before getting too hung up on "clean" food or ionized water or anything like that. Likewise, and for a lot of people, it can be too tempting to say, "Well, I can't do this perfectly; so @#% it!" I mean, do you see what Im getting at? That level of detail on the nutritional side of things can be overwhelming, especially for someone whos new to a lot of this; and if they get too caught up in it, you risk that they will lose sight of the big picture: that they have to eat consistently enough in order to get enough of certain key components (complete protein, complex carbohydrates, nutrient-dense-vegetables, etc..) but maybe not so much that they dont feel like moving afterwards. Because being active is no less an important piece of it. So, to that end, I would recommend changing everything at once, but only very incrementally: That is, introduce some whole foods, take away some crap-foods, reduce daily caloric intake by a small amount of calories, and begin to introduce some minimal exercise, all in the same day! 

For example, there are days where, if Im really pressed for time, Ill actually have a fast-food meal before working out. Just not as much of it as I normally would have, if I didnt drink as much water or if I didnt expect to have to workout in 45 minutes or so. So, instead of two Whoppers with bacon and cheese and Supersize fries and a 32 ounce soda and pies and a shake and whatever else; I might just have one whopper with cheese and extra fixings, but no bacon, and a grilled chicken sandwich, but light on the mayo, and fries, but small instead of large, and a 12 ounce drink, but iced-tea with extra ice instead of pepsi, ect.. and so on. Its certainly not ideal; but if its the difference between getting to that workout with some calories/protein/etc versus attempting it with no calories or not doing the workout at all, its not such a bad trade-off. And as you start to condition yourself to think in terms of those trade-offs, this for that, you become more effective in them. Burger King for Taco Bell. Taco Bell for Subway. Subway for the grocery store, etc That is what tends to be more sustainable and what normally tends to have better success in helping more people to get back on track on a more long-term basis.

As far as buying things, I already mentioned compression garments and supports; so the next thing that comes to mind, is something your friend probably already has, but I would mention it to you nonetheless, a large capacity scale. Obviously, it goes without saying, that it's a bit of a waste of time to be weighing yourself every single day; however I think the most direct way to conquer any kind of anxiety about that number and to begin to see it just for what it is, a number among many other important indicators, is to desensitize oneself to looking at it face to face. If you notice that, after two weeks, you're stronger, faster, more energetic; your clothes fit a little bit better; your feet aren't as swollen; your skin looks better; you're sleeping more soundly; etc..and you've lost as little as 4 pounds; well then you know you're doing something right. If you manage to accomplish all of those things losing only half as much as that, well, you're probably still doing better than you were. 

But what if you don't lose any weight at all? What if you actually gain weight? Well, again, no less so; you have to learn to take that in the context of everything else that you've got going on. And you can't really do that unless you check back in a week; and again the week after that. And then you start to get a sense of the real complexion of what you're accomplishing. But you won't know for sure, unless you make a habit of checking those numbers on a consistent basis and use that long-range feedback to adjust your approach accordingly. Blood pressure also belongs in this category. If you want to do it manually, its probably good practice for your nursing skills. But they make kits that anybody can use in their own home. If you can show your friend that his blood pressure is moving into a more normal range, on a week to week basis; then that probably helps to reinforce everything else hes doing. 

Another thing is something even more helpful than that; and, since you work-out, I would guess it's something you already own: a heart-rate monitor. Ideally, you show yours to your friend, show him how simple it is to program it, teach him how to calculate his target heart range [(220-age)x70-80%], etc... So, much in the same way that you have to pay attention to the more obvious signs of over-exertion (muscular and joint pain, fatigue) this gives somewhat of more acute sense of just how far his cardio-vascular system is being taxed. For now, you're just getting a feel of where he's comfortable; but, ideally, after a weeks or two of conditioning, and provided he doesn't have any other cardiovascular issues (have him check with his Dr.) you kind of get him used to the idea that, within that 70-80% range (could be less depending on his blood pressure or other issues, definitely check with a Dr.), he's conditioning his heart most efficiently. Point is, instead of either of you having any kind of anxiety about whether or not he's doing enough/too much, etc..you have something more concrete to build around, a baseline of 10 or 20 minutes of any activity that allows him to maintain that heart-rate. And very gradually, you work up to 25 minutes, and 30 minutes, and 35 minutes, etc.. At 35 minutes, you should probably start to think more about the consistency of the workouts (3x a week versus 4x week versus 5x week) or about how that same amount of time can be used even more efficiently; so, maybe, one day you do the normal cardio-routine (35 minutes of walking) and then the next day you warm-up for 10 minutes, and do some light calisthenics adapted to his size and current level of fitness. Or maybe get into a pool.

Basically, as long as you effectively condition the heart and lungs and circulatory system, you can safely err on the side of too little in the way of weight-bearing/resistance training; largely because the Super-Size person is already wearing as much weight as they need. So you just look for ways to take ordinary exercises and adapt them to this condition. So, for example, instead of attempting a normal push-up, at which many super-size people would likely strain an abdominal muscle or screw-up their back, you start them out basically standing-upright, have them attempt the same motion against a vertical wall (make sure whatever it is they lean against is strong enough to support their weight). If you want to increase the resistance, they can lean at more of an angle or spread their legs further apart. But, again, you dont need any more resistance than that the muscles are engaged, pushing-pulling, balancing, etc.. If they cant do 15 repetitions without compromising form, then you definitely dont need any more resistance. If they can do 15 reps, give them 30 seconds rest and see if they can do 12 or 15 more. If they can do 3 sets of 12 reps with no more than 30 seconds rest, you can just go to another exercise, and another one, until you complete about 35 minutes.


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## pogo4502 (Apr 27, 2011)

vardon_grip said:


> Methinx that is not a bad idea.



Snerk 

Methinx as well


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 27, 2011)

Yakatori said:


> <.....snipped......>But what if you don't lose any weight at all? What if you actually gain weight? Well, again, no less so; you have to learn to take that in the context of everything else that you've got going on. And you can't really do that unless you check back in a week; and again the week after that. And then you start to get a sense of the real complexion of what you're accomplishing. But you won't know for sure, unless you make a habit of checking those numbers on a consistent basis and use that long-range feedback to adjust your approach accordingly. Blood pressure also belongs in this category. If you want to do it manually, its probably good practice for your nursing skills. But they make kits that anybody can use in their own home. If you can show your friend that his blood pressure is moving into a more normal range, on a week to week basis; then that probably helps to reinforce everything else hes doing. <........snipped........>



I am sooo trying not to be a negative Nancy in here but since I am at this particular stage right now I feel it would be irresponsible for me not to speak up. Back in September I started seeing a licensed clinical psychologist who specializes in the area of health psychology and behavioral medicine. Over a near lifetime I've been told so much crap and lead down som many dead ends that I was loathed to be bothered going through with it again. Since I'm getting older now I decided to put my cynicism aside and go in with an open mind. I got sold the idea of having something within an hour of waking in the morning, eating small meals all day, etc, etc. I was following a nutrition book and spent insane amounts of money on Kashi bars, roasted almonds and all kinds of other stuff. 

The psych was helpful in some ways, I'm still taking the vitamin D supplements for example, but here I am 15 pounds heavier. I do feel as though I've spent enough time with this to form an opinion. I'm of the inclination that you can't necessarily eat your way into good health on even the cleanest most thoroughly nutritiously supervised diet. The magic bullet really is exercise but I'll be honest with you: exercise is a whole lot harder now with 15 pounds extra. This is really how it starts for ss people. One minute they're skipping along thinking they're invinceble and then the next they're leaning up against a pole looking for a place to sit down. A mere few pounds gain for a ss person could be the difference. I'm at a place now where I'm digging out from the results of something that was supposed to help me. Now that I've gone back to the way I was eating before the weight is beginning to return to what it was but that was crazy. These things might be worth trying in the big picture, I dont know. I'm not yet at the point where my view is completely negative though for sure my experience with this has been thoroughly unfavorable. But you'll have more work cut out for you if it doesn't work. That weight gain was not just an 'O well' pithy kind of thing.

Also I'm loath to disagree with science as I am a believer in it, but I'm forming a bit of skepticism at how realistic the 'small meals' idea is overall. How in the world did we ever survive as a species as I doubt our cave dewlling ancestors lived this way? I just don't think that this idea is the one stop shopping solution for everyone though it's as a good a place to start as any I suppose. But be carefull tossing weight gain around like it's nothing when you're talking about being super sized. A few pounds isn't just a small matter.


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 27, 2011)

mossystate said:


> I have been thinking about that picture. It's actually a good thing it was posted . I have seen so many comments from people who do seem to believe ( not talking about any particular people ) that fat, sometimes great amounts of fat, is just...there. There is a disconnect when it comes to how very large bodies move and how they affect the owner - good...bad...other.



I've been thinking about this too and I'm glad the OP asked SS people for their input on obstacles. People in general seem to think very silly things like, "Omagawd! All you have to do is drink more water!" Dolce I commend you for asking because most people charge in boldly and won't even consider what the realities are of living in a super sized body. People just assume that if they ever get that way they will just do this, this and this when it is rarely that simple. Fat doesn't just burn cleanly away turning magically into whatever it is our body needs when we're not eating, and with no adverse side effects on our innards that a couple glasses of water and a vitamin can't fix.


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## Ernest Nagel (Apr 27, 2011)

As someone who lived with BBW/SSBBW most of my life I can only say that the biggest obstacles seemed to me to have been comparisons and expectations. I think regardless of size we all deserve to be appreciated for who we are, not who someone wants us to be.

So doing some things with a SSBBW doesn't take "more" time; it takes the time it takes. Some things (furniture, travel, clothes don't cost "more"; they cost what they cost. What she can do today isn't "less" than what she could do 2-3 years ago; it's just what she can do today. 

Finding someone who wants to be with you just as you are is a universal challenge by no means confined to the overweight. Letting yourself be accepted just as you are is probably a little harder because society and convention are always there to reinforce the notion you're unacceptable.

We're all a lot more alike than we are different and realizing that seems to be an obstacle everyone deals with the best we can every day.


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## tinkerbell (Apr 27, 2011)

I am not SS, and wasn't considered SS at my highest weight, but I do know foot pain!  So I did want to add something in here. If he's going to be walking more - and it sounds like he's already doing great - he really should get a good pair of shoes. The right shoes, or even a pair of almost right shoes makes a HUGE difference in how your feet and body feel.

The best thing would be to get to a specialty shoe store, and get advice from the people there, and get an idea of what type of support he needs in shoes. It was so intimidating for me to go into our local running store at first, and while ours sucks it is better than nothing, they have steered me in the right direction for shoes. I've been to a couple different running stores, and they do have walking shoes there. They can look at his gait, and how he stands and walks, to find the right shoes for him. But I can understand if one is hesitant to go into a store like that - I know I was. And if he doesn't want to at this point (you did say that he doesn't like going out in public) at least do some research online and try to find a good shoe that way. 

I really cant express how much of a difference it is to buy a shoe from a running store/website then from a department store. I know when you have added weight, you're going to be sore from walking - it just happens. But having the right shoes makes such a world of difference. I can tell when mine are getting worn out, because I start to get aches and pains in my feet and knees. And being heavier than the average runner/walker, I have to replace my shoes more often.


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## LovelyLiz (Apr 27, 2011)

Ernest Nagel said:


> <snipped> So doing some things with a SSBBW doesn't take "more" time; it takes the time it takes. Some things (furniture, travel, clothes don't cost "more"; they cost what they cost. What she can do today isn't "less" than what she could do 2-3 years ago; it's just what she can do today. <snipped>



I really appreciated this paragraph, Ernest. I so easily slip into the mode of comparing how I would do something to how an able-bodied thin person would do it, as if thin people are the magical standard of "normal" and so I am somehow slower or sub-par in some way. Like if I am with my very thin boyfriend and am slower in hiking up a hill or something, I always feel like it's bad because it takes me "more" time than it might for a thinner person. But he doesn't seem to think that way at all, I think he tends to think like what you're saying - and you articulated it really well. Your post really reminded me that we are each our own standard, and I don't need to be feeling less-than because of some invisible hegemonic assumption about what "good" and "normal" are. Thank you.


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## Ernest Nagel (Apr 27, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> I really appreciated this paragraph... Thank you.



You're very welcome. I've been fascinated by this thread since it started but I've got some bad history with the whole notion of "obstacles". They often seem to wind up with us trying to figure out what we can live with or how to live with something we don't like. Some things have to be dealt with but the real trouble is when the "dealing with" becomes a distraction from what really matters. 

I think what we can't live without is a much better question. What really matters for each of us and how can we have our lives sourced by that? In my experience when we focus on what lights us up nothing can darken or block our paths for long. I'm sorry if that sounds too schmaltzy or new-agey but I've let a lot of obstacles blind me to what was really important in my life. In fact I got so good at dealing with obstacles they were all that defined me for awhile. By the time I understood that I'd lost far more than what I ever thought overcoming them was worth. C'est la vie. :doh: :really sad:


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## penguin (Apr 27, 2011)

Ernest Nagel said:


> I think what we can't live without is a much better question. What really matters for each of us and how can we have our lives sourced by that? In my experience when we focus on what lights us up nothing can darken or block our paths for long. I'm sorry if that sounds too schmaltzy or new-agey but I've let a lot of obstacles blind me to what was really important in my life. In fact I got so good at dealing with obstacles they were all that defined me for awhile. By the time I understood that I'd lost far more than what I ever thought overcoming them was worth. C'est la vie. :doh: :really sad:



I too really appreciate this and your previous comment, they make a lot of sense. I like this way of looking at things. Thank you


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## blueeyedevie (Apr 27, 2011)

Jes, being honest lately is the only way I am coping with my issues. It seems to help to point out my issues than just ignoring them. 

Lilly,


> I'm not a spoiled person either and I'm very adept at roughing things out. I think that's what makes it moreso a problem for most people who are used to being in control. When we simply can't be we all have to cope with it on some way or another. This is something that almost everyone struggles with in some way.



You hit on something for me, I am a someone that adapts pretty well to all situations as my life has been a roller coaster for some time now. However the biggest change I have faced the last two years is control. I use to have say on everything and now I have to share the control with my guy. Often giving in to his plan of action . This has been very hard thing to cope with. You are very correct people ( including me) need to find better ways to cope. LOL yelling always gets me in trouble , hope it works out better for you. I have begun praying a lot more, playing with my puppy are just browsing on line to calm my nerves.


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## blueeyedevie (Apr 27, 2011)

LIlly,


> The magic bullet really is exercise but I'll be honest with you: exercise is a whole lot harder now with 15 pounds extra. This is really how it starts for ss people. One minute they're skipping along thinking they're invinceble and then the next they're leaning up against a pole looking for a place to sit down. A mere few pounds gain for a ss person could be the difference.


 OMG this is so true. I can basically eat the way I always eat and loose more weight with exercise than when i was eating six (tiny) meals a day, in which I never had the energy to exercise. 

For the sake of topic, what you put in your body isn't usually the issue its the fact your not burning those calories off. Now this isn't to say that there are health issues that eating a certain way could benefit . When I first starting loosing weight, I was living in a place where we never cooked. It was fast food are nothing. Well Instead of having a big mac, 20 piece nugget, fries and a coke, I would get ( one thing), half the fries and drink water. Then I went to changing how I ordered. I went to subway a lot, and always ordered the grilled chicken or fish other places. I still ate pizza but instead of eating a whole half I would eat two slices ( and M&M's) just because I am weird like that. But now you see I have issues like my heart, and my gallbladder, so it is beneficial for me to watch the types of food I eat. Grease is a major problem for both of those issues. So the more i stay away from fast food the better. Anyway, major point there is no set way to loose weight or be healthy. YOU have to figure it out by trial and error.


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 27, 2011)

blueeyedevie said:


> Jes, being honest lately is the only way I am coping with my issues. It seems to help to point out my issues than just ignoring them.
> 
> Lilly,
> 
> You hit on something for me, I am a someone that adapts pretty well to all situations as my life has been a roller coaster for some time now. However the biggest change I have faced the last two years is control. I use to have say on everything and now I have to share the control with my guy. Often giving in to his plan of action . This has been very hard thing to cope with. You are very correct people ( including me) need to find better ways to cope. LOL yelling always gets me in trouble , hope it works out better for you. I have begun praying a lot more, playing with my puppy are just browsing on line to calm my nerves.



Yeah the yelling isn't really doing me much good either. I will say though that knowing what's up has given me a power so to speak. Just the power to relax my grip, close my eyes, take a deep breath and let someone else ruin something for once. I'm just along for the ride. lol



blueeyedevie said:


> LIlly, OMG this is so true. I can basically eat the way I always eat and loose more weight with exercise than when i was eating six (tiny) meals a day, in which I never had the energy to exercise.
> 
> For the sake of topic, what you put in your body isn't usually the issue its the fact your not burning those calories off. Now this isn't to say that there are health issues that eating a certain way could benefit . When I first starting loosing weight, I was living in a place where we never cooked. It was fast food are nothing. Well Instead of having a big mac, 20 piece nugget, fries and a coke, I would get ( one thing), half the fries and drink water. Then I went to changing how I ordered. I went to subway a lot, and always ordered the grilled chicken or fish other places. I still ate pizza but instead of eating a whole half I would eat two slices ( and M&M's) just because I am weird like that. But now you see I have issues like my heart, and my gallbladder, so it is beneficial for me to watch the types of food I eat. Grease is a major problem for both of those issues. So the more i stay away from fast food the better. Anyway, major point there is no set way to loose weight or be healthy. YOU have to figure it out by trial and error.



I had horrific fainting spells in public places while living on the 6 small meal plan. I never even increased my exercise at all. I have an injury that has affected my mobility so I just kept up my usual putterings. I took to carrying peanut butter and children's drink boxes of apple juice in my bag for emergencies. The most terrifying of these incidents happened in my own home where I was stationary and I live alone. I was scared that the eating plan gave me diabetes. I didn't know WHAT was happening as I couldn't eat those snacks fast enough. For a lot of people this is a great way to go but for me it was impossible to implement. I was better off when I ate only twice a day.


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## superodalisque (Apr 27, 2011)

i feel you. i saw a nutritionist yesterday and she basically assumed that i wanted to diet and loose weight. she didn't even ask me what the image was that i had for myself. she was just an oddball. she seemed high and she seemed to be dosing off mid sentence. i found i wanted to tell her as little as possible.  she gave me some book with a calorie countdown and went over it like i couldn't read. then she asked me for my goal weight. i told her that i didn't have one and that i was only concerned about my health. she tried to convince me that if i ate a lot of fruit it could make me fat. two oranges can make me fat. they might actually make me healthy instead. no wonder people who subscribe to this stuff get sick. there are some really stupid people involved in this stuff. so i just shake my head and ignore them and do as i like. i've lost about 120lbs but that still didn't stop her from trying to lecture me as though i wasn't losing enough fast enough. i felt like asking her if she was following her own suggestions. but i knew by her awful scratchy looking skin and dull eyes that she was not.


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 28, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> i feel you. i saw a nutritionist yesterday and she basically assumed that i wanted to diet and loose weight. she didn't even ask me what the image was that i had for myself. she was just an oddball. she seemed high and she seemed to be dosing off mid sentence. i found i wanted to tell her as little as possible. she gave me some book with a calorie countdown and went over it like i couldn't read. then she asked me for my goal weight. i told her that i didn't have one and that i was only concerned about my health. she tried to convince me that if i ate a lot of fruit it could make me fat. two oranges can make me fat.



OH NO!! :shocked: Not the two oranges of doom!?! lol I just needed to stop here so I could laugh.  I am so sorry you had to have your intelligence insulted by this prize winner.



superodalisque said:


> they might actually make me healthy instead. no wonder people who subscribe to this stuff get sick. there are some really stupid people involved in this stuff. so i just shake my head and ignore them and do as i like. i've lost about 120lbs but that still didn't stop her from trying to lecture me as though i wasn't losing enough fast enough. i felt like asking her if she was following her own suggestions. *but i knew by her awful scratchy looking skin and dull eyes that she was not.*



The sad thing is she probably was, and that's not a joke. I find nutritionists to be the foremost promoters of disordered eating. A lot of people simply can't fully function on these eating concepts and complaints are often dismissed out of hand as insignificant. I used to be able to endure these diets long enough to get down to a costume friendly size but now that I'm older I can't tolerate them anymore. I got so much going on that my body will shut down. The fainting spells were a wake up call.


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## TimeTraveller (Apr 28, 2011)

True and true again. Genuine obstacles do exist but often it's a matter of "it is what it is" and overthinking it is counterproductive. We're planning our next vacation, so my wife has been reading posts here and on some other fat-acceptance sites about how fat-friendly certain attractions are, what facilities they have, whether to rent a scooter etc. They are what they are, we'll make informed choices and get on with it. We'll focus on what she can do.


Ernest Nagel said:


> As someone who lived with BBW/SSBBW most of my life I can only say that the biggest obstacles seemed to me to have been comparisons and expectations. I think regardless of size we all deserve to be appreciated for who we are, not who someone wants us to be.
> 
> So doing some things with a SSBBW doesn't take "more" time; it takes the time it takes. Some things (furniture, travel, clothes don't cost "more"; they cost what they cost. What she can do today isn't "less" than what she could do 2-3 years ago; it's just what she can do today.
> 
> ...





Ernest Nagel said:


> You're very welcome. I've been fascinated by this thread since it started but I've got some bad history with the whole notion of "obstacles". They often seem to wind up with us trying to figure out what we can live with or how to live with something we don't like. Some things have to be dealt with but the real trouble is when the "dealing with" becomes a distraction from what really matters.
> 
> I think what we can't live without is a much better question. What really matters for each of us and how can we have our lives sourced by that? In my experience when we focus on what lights us up nothing can darken or block our paths for long. I'm sorry if that sounds too schmaltzy or new-agey but I've let a lot of obstacles blind me to what was really important in my life. In fact I got so good at dealing with obstacles they were all that defined me for awhile. By the time I understood that I'd lost far more than what I ever thought overcoming them was worth. C'est la vie. :doh: :really sad:


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## Jes (Apr 28, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> I really appreciated this paragraph, Ernest. I so easily slip into the mode of comparing how I would do something to how an able-bodied thin person would do it, as if thin people are the magical standard of "normal" and so I am somehow slower or sub-par in some way. Like if I am with my very thin boyfriend and am slower in hiking up a hill or something, I always feel like it's bad because it takes me "more" time than it might for a thinner person. But he doesn't seem to think that way at all, I think he tends to think like what you're saying - and you articulated it really well. Your post really reminded me that we are each our own standard, and I don't need to be feeling less-than because of some invisible hegemonic assumption about what "good" and "normal" are. Thank you.



This reminded me of something I'd forgotten 'til recently. 

I have friends who own (the only privately-owned) an island in New Hampshire (crazy, right?). Anyway, from the top, after a climb, you have a fantastic view, so up we went to see it.

It was summer, and the island is super humid, and the climb isn't overly strenuous, but I'd been sleeping in a tent, and I was nowhere near as physically fit or able as anyone else there. And I'll admit I felt a bit embarrassed but then I often do when I'm puffing and my hair is going crazy. Twice, a member of the group very sweetly said: If you're not up to it, we can turn around, not a problem. And they were so... I don't know how to explain it, but sometimes that kind of thing can be patronizing, but I didn't read it that way. It was very genuine. Thing is, I look like hell when I climb that way. I always have. My head turns bright red, and I huff. I have short legs, don't fare well in humidity and look a hot mess. But I can do it. It's not like I can't do it, and I got to the summit only shortly after the rest of the group. I looked worse, and others in the group weren't even fazed by the climb. So even if others notice that you ARE slower (or anything else), it's not like (the communal) you didn't still make it up the hill!


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## CastingPearls (Apr 28, 2011)

The Two Oranges of Doom sounds like the name of a really good novel. Hmmmmmmm.......


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## LadyDeelicious (Apr 30, 2011)

A couple years ago (I weighed about 400) I had made a decision to start walking for health reasons because I had a hard time just walking to the end of the block. 

It was hard getting the motivation to walk on my own, so a couple thin friends of mine committed to walking with me three times a week. It was AMAZING to say the least! 

After a couple months of this we were walking for about an hour at a time. In June of 2008 I decided that I would walk for a cause and see how I could do for a 10k (6.2 miles) walk. I "trained" every week starting with 4 laps at a local high school track. 

My biggest pain obstacle was my back and hips. Every twenty minutes I had to stretch. I am pretty flexible so I could bend all the way over and touch the ground to stretch my back and crack it. 

As time went on I was able to walk longer and longer before the pain took control and I would have to stretch again...by September of 2008 I was able to do the 10k walk. I completed it in 3hrs 20minutes. It was hard, hot, and I was in severe pain when I was done, this time in my feet mainly. The reward and feeling I had inside, the tears that streamed down my face as I crossed the "finish" line and received my certificate was the best feeling I can ever remember *tears in my eyes as I type* having. 

Regardless, what I am saying is that the more its done the easier it gets, even the pain and whatnot.

I was able to walk the next year as well, but I have since hurt my knee dancing 4 hours one nite and it has not yet repaired itself. So walking now is a hard challenge. After just about 1/2 a mile I cannot bend my knee. It's better than it used to be so I am considering starting the walk again, with just a lap at a time! 

Anyway, your dedication to meet with him 2x a week is the greatest gift and the best way you can help.


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