# Changes



## lille (Jan 23, 2015)

I think I can speak for a number of people on this board when I say that it would be greatly appreciated if there was a thread created in which you updated us on changes that will be/have been made so that we can be aware of those changes as they happen, rather than stumbling into them when we go to use a feature that is no longer there, etc. I think that this would help with some of the frustration that people are feeling with the changes. Change isn't necessarily bad, but change with no warning and no follow up tends to upset people.


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## CleverBomb (Jan 23, 2015)

You aren't alone in thinking this.

Also, would a moderator please contact me via PM?
There is a significant issue with the forums which needs to be resolved one way or the other, and which I cannot discuss on the forums themselves.

I have already PMed the one moderator whose identity I recall.


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## lille (Jan 23, 2015)

Every other forum I have been part of has had an announcement thread in which any updates, changes, planned downed time for maintenance, etc were posted to keep the forum members informed.


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## loopytheone (Jan 23, 2015)

Also, I was wondering why I am apparently a supporting member? As far as I am aware I have never donated anything to this website and I am kinda freaked out/scared that they may have my bank details/be taking payments from me without me being aware of it. I don't see why I am a 'supporting member' when I haven't paid for anything.


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## liz (di-va) (Jan 23, 2015)

Some more information here, period, would be great. Info = good.


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## liz (di-va) (Jan 23, 2015)

lille said:


> every other forum i have been part of has had an announcement thread in which any updates, changes, planned downed time for maintenance, etc were posted to keep the forum members informed.



+1..............


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## MattB (Jan 23, 2015)

loopytheone said:


> Also, I was wondering why I am apparently a supporting member? As far as I am aware I have never donated anything to this website and I am kinda freaked out/scared that they may have my bank details/be taking payments from me without me being aware of it. I don't see why I am a 'supporting member' when I haven't paid for anything.



I don't see 'Dimensions Supporter' listed under your name. I assume it was just taken off?


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## Saoirse (Jan 23, 2015)

loopytheone said:


> Also, I was wondering why I am apparently a supporting member? As far as I am aware I have never donated anything to this website and I am kinda freaked out/scared that they may have my bank details/be taking payments from me without me being aware of it. I don't see why I am a 'supporting member' when I haven't paid for anything.



Mine says (said?) it too and I dont ever remember donating money.

So how long before this thread gets shut down?


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## loopytheone (Jan 23, 2015)

MattB said:


> I don't see 'Dimensions Supporter' listed under your name. I assume it was just taken off?



Apparently. I dunno what all this is about but there are obviously more than a few bugs with this system...


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## Marlayna (Jan 23, 2015)

I'm listed as a "supporter" as well, even though I've never contributed any money. The site has my total emotional support, however.:bow:


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## Blockierer (Jan 24, 2015)

This may sound rough, the www is free for both the owners and the users of websites. Frustrating what's going on with the forums, but the owner can do what he wants in his house.  Nobody is forced to enter his house.  
As a long-term user all what I can say is, thank you Conrad for your good work.


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## Saoirse (Jan 24, 2015)

Blockierer said:


> As a long-term user all what I can say is, thank you Conrad for your good work.



Are you aware that Conrad is no longer running this forum? He left a while ago.


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## superodalisque (Jan 24, 2015)

i'm not a financial supporter anymore either. I was many years ago but I have not donated for a very long time since it started to change. now it is going all the way in another direction. I feel kinda sorry for the people who now own it etc... it's going exactly where fantasy feeder went and they aren't doing well either. I don't think it was a good business move but it isn't my decision. there is too much fat porn out there already --second behind the regular stuff. I basically don't feel like financially subsidizing someone else's porn ads. that market is over saturated already which is exactly why web models are on public assistance or have to have a full time job to survive. there are a lot of people on skype facetime etc... willing to do nearly anything for free. the site is continually erasing the special niche it once had and sending it to facebook. so pretty much things are going in a boring and predictable direction. even sex gets boring and predictable and when that happens we know what people do.


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## musicman (Jan 24, 2015)

lille said:


> I think I can speak for a number of people on this board when I say that it would be greatly appreciated if there was a thread created in which you updated us on changes that will be/have been made so that we can be aware of those changes as they happen, rather than stumbling into them when we go to use a feature that is no longer there, etc. I think that this would help with some of the frustration that people are feeling with the changes. Change isn't necessarily bad, but change with no warning and no follow up tends to upset people.



Exactly right! A little bit of communication beforehand can prevent a lot of aggravation later, like that exhibited in the "Anonymous Rep" thread (which the Admin just closed after castigating the members for posting negative comments.) I don't know why communication is such a hard concept for people to grasp. If the Admin doesn't want to announce changes, perhaps he could deputize one of the mods to do it?


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## Yakatori (Jan 24, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> "...even sex gets boring and predictable and *when that happens we know what people do.*"


What do they do when that happens?


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## superodalisque (Jan 24, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> What do they do when that happens?


 
absolutely nothing at all


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## superodalisque (Jan 24, 2015)

isn't it sort of odd too considering that fetish activity isn't generally about traditional sex ? is it possible that assuming that it is erroneous. what if people who fetishize aren't interested in penetration or actual full nudity and the like anyway? 

btw: personally the appearance of actual sex or nudity doesn't bother me.


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## Yakatori (Jan 25, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> "_absolutely nothing at all..._"


I originally thought you were implying how folks sometimes leave each other over that...like how when a TV show _jumps-the-shark_. 



superodalisque said:


> "_isn't it sort of odd too considering that fetish activity isn't generally about traditional sex ? is it possible that assuming that it is erroneous. what if people who fetishize aren't interested in penetration or actual full nudity and the like anyway?..._"


Yeah, I think, along the lines of what you were alluding to before, that sex can be a very challenging thing to directly monetize. More than just the average person would choose to realize

You mentioned Skype, how people are perfectly willing to do just about anything on there for free. But, for just simple amateurly produced images, Reddit requires even less effort. It does, kind of, make you wonder how for-profit content producers can remain sustainable in this technological & cultural climate.

I mean, it sort of relates to the whole crisis in journalism & publishing. Maybe it isn't actually dead, quite yet. But, relative to what's involved in the timely production of intelligent, insightful, & well-researched articles by highly accredited experts; it's not exactly an industry where you're thinking, "_Oh, that's how I'll get rich!_"

For what fetishists or niche-consumers actually want, it's just not cost-effective to be produced on too large a scale. If any at all. They're basically lucky to have whatever they can get, the very best of which is likely produced from within their own community, distinctly not-for-profit; that is a labor of love that's managed in such a way as to reinvest whatever income generated directly into covering costs. 

Music, also, often seems like it's perpetually drifting in this general direction. Except, the best music often functions on several levels at once, so that helps to broaden its audience a bit. 

But, just out of curiousity, what does a site like Dimensions actually cost to produce and run? This is not taking any ad-revenue into account, but I mean between equipment (software & hardware, like do you need an actual server?) and time. And expertise.

Part of what piques my interest here is how I've noticed how many such forums (for other varied special interests: certain vehicle-makes, craft hobbies, professional-type associations, medical conditions, etc...) seem to all use similar software platforms and moderation policies. Makes you wonder about how many other _Conrad_s are out there, building communities here or there. And what it would be like to see a whole convention of them.


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## Saoirse (Jan 25, 2015)

Its really fucking annoying and upsetting that we still aren't getting any answers from Admin. This a community of people who share thoughts, ideas, experiences and feelings. How are we supposed to feel "safe" at all, when the person running the show wont talk to us, ask for input, or make announcements regarding changes? What other changes have been made that we aren't yet aware of? Its understandable that some changes are made to help bring in the money to run this place, but *WE WANT TO KNOW AND WE DESERVE TO KNOW.*


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## superodalisque (Jan 26, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> I originally thought you were implying how folks sometimes leave each other over that...like how when a TV show _jumps-the-shark_.
> 
> Yeah, I think, along the lines of what you were alluding to before, that sex can be a very challenging thing to directly monetize. More than just the average person would choose to realize
> 
> ...


 
it would probably be more efficient and actually enhance revenue to simply move it to facebook at this point. it would probably have a whole lot more political influence as well if that was actually a goal or an aim. 

actually porn overall is losing a lot of revenue that it used to have. forums like this are considered passe.


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## Yakatori (Jan 26, 2015)

Because I tend to look at facebook-itself as being sort of passé; not so much for _old people_, per se, but more in how _basic_ it is. 

One of the things I like about Reddit is the amount of quasi-honest, insightful, but largely anonymous pontificating that goes on there. And, every so often, a Redditor turns out to be someone in real life.

Don't you think a Reddit-subforum would be more....Is that what would more attract...._les jeunes_. Although, I can also see how it would generate a certain amount of backlash from it's extreme-fitness corner. 

Although, maybe that even more speaks to why & how that's a place size-acceptance should establish some more visable prescence?


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## superodalisque (Jan 27, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> Because I tend to look at facebook-itself as being sort of passé; not so much for _old people_, per se, but more in how _basic_ it is.
> 
> One of the things I like about Reddit is the amount of quasi-honest, insightful, but largely anonymous pontificating that goes on there. And, every so often, a Redditor turns out to be someone in real life.
> 
> ...


 
I don't like the anonymity of reddit myself for that very reason. there are lots of someone's on facebook as well who actually use their names where it's possible to actually get to interact with their friends and family too in a more normal way and human way. I don't like undercover. i find so much closeted stuff related to fat as distasteful often dishonest and pretentious. i think reddit karma is childish just like likes. people should be able to talk without scoring points or even trying to. it makes situations even more cliquish. 

if someone isn't willing to stand behind something with their real name and personae they may as well not bother. size acceptance definitely could do with many fewer fakers and closets of all kinds. it's understandable that reddit adopt that pose for political reasons but fat community politics is very personal and therefore different. i enjoy talking politics on reddit but that is a different animal than fat community politics. it would not, as we have often seen, prosper from that kind of secrecy. the ability to lie about who a person is should be limited as well as it can be. people need a reason to step outside of their fear and comfort zone --which is the normal way that we make friends.

i hate the idea of fat youth going to a fat forum on reddit with a whole bunch of closeted anonymous people that can easily manipulate and take advantage. they need to be out in the open where older people can look after them and they can meet a lot of different and real people the can actually be friends with and not someone who is just going to bobble head for them online. generationally things need to be mixed so that people can learn from each other. that is how life is.


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## Yakatori (Jan 27, 2015)

Reddit is not wholly anonymous. In the IMA-subreddit, people make a point of establishing their credentials. Aside from that, lots of people post pictures, all kinds of things. I think the point is that you can (almost) share as much or as little as you like. That creates room for abuse, but it's not like it isn't governed by certain rules. Or that it doesn't, simultaneously, create other room for more honesty. Or insight.



superodalisque said:


> ...it's understandable that reddit adopt that pose for *political reasons*..


Wait, what exactly do you mean by this? I mean, before we distinguish it from "_fat community politics_," let's be clear on exactly what we're talking about.



superodalisque said:


> "_..but fat community politics is very personal and therefore different._"


I think anything is about as personal as you're open to the personal side of it. I don't see how fat politics is exceptional in this way. In a way that topics of, say, race, religion, or class cannot also be. Or, I dunno, guns or abortion or the environment or whatever.



superodalisque said:


> "_i hate the idea of fat youth going to a fat forum on reddit with a whole bunch of closeted anonymous people that can easily manipulate and take advantage. they need to be out in the open where older people can look after them and they can meet a lot of different and real people the can actually be friends with and not someone who is just going to bobble head for them online. generationally things need to be mixed so that people can learn from each other. that is how life is._"


I see your concern. But I don't really think you can prevent that as much as you can by intervening on behalf of your own ideas. Allowing your own ideas to occupy that same space.

And, particularly as we're talking about very young adults, who're not always so fully formed in their positions & ideas, I think there's something constructive in exploring different points of view, from outside of everyone knows them.


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## Yakatori (Jan 27, 2015)

before I forget. On Facebook, you can't really post longer posts, right? Like the way you & I (and some others) go back & forth on here. I know posting links to other video & forwarding articles is big on there, as you can also see that's >95% of what's on Reddit. But Redditors actually write as well, back & forth, to each other. There's more of a dialogue-type aspect to it.

I dunno, maybe it is sort of _passé_. But I still like it.


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## CleverBomb (Jan 28, 2015)

Off-topic, but there seems to be a glitch on the boards. 

Props to djudex for posting the question that got me looking for the problem.
Please rep him on this post for his insight!

On some threads there is an "extra" page showing on the page listing toolbar, but which is not accessible (and which may not actually exist). 
On those pages, the "last page" link in the thread title on the forum points to the "phantom" page but resolves to the last page with content.

This glitch shows up on at least these threads: You Know You Love 'Em - Political Pics and Jokes Thread Reloaded!  (shows 55 pages, but only 54 seem to exist)
and 
Post pics of yourself....LIVING (shows 122 pages, of which only 121 seem to exist)

But it does not show up on this thread:
The Official Joke Thread  (27 pages)
or quite a few thousand-plus-post pages.

So, it's not the number of pages that does it, and it's not an off-by-one error where it creates the phantom page when there is still space for one or two posts on the previous one. I tested this by posting on a thread with the issue, but did not test it on one that almost had enough to force a new page to be created.

And I'm pretty sure (but not positive) that it's not an artifact of deleting a sufficient number of posts to reduce the un-deleted post count below the threshold for creating a new page -- in other words, that there once were enough posts to need the phantom page, but after deleting some, there aren't enough any more, but the link to the page is still there. 

I hope this information is useful to someone with more vBulletin-fu than I have (that is, none).


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## superodalisque (Jan 29, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> before I forget. On Facebook, you can't really post longer posts, right? Like the way you & I (and some others) go back & forth on here. I know posting links to other video & forwarding articles is big on there, as you can also see that's >95% of what's on Reddit. But Redditors actually write as well, back & forth, to each other. There's more of a dialogue-type aspect to it.
> 
> I dunno, maybe it is sort of _passé_. But I still like it.


 

you are thinking of twitter


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## superodalisque (Jan 29, 2015)

Saoirse said:


> Its really fucking annoying and upsetting that we still aren't getting any answers from Admin. This a community of people who share thoughts, ideas, experiences and feelings. How are we supposed to feel "safe" at all, when the person running the show wont talk to us, ask for input, or make announcements regarding changes? What other changes have been made that we aren't yet aware of? Its understandable that some changes are made to help bring in the money to run this place, but *WE WANT TO KNOW AND WE DESERVE TO KNOW.*


 

none of it has really bothered me personally. I mean, people can still post. I know I don't depend on this as my only venue. the rest will work itself out. if it is not something people want it will go away anyway. that is how a market place works.


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## superodalisque (Jan 29, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> Reddit is not wholly anonymous. In the IMA-subreddit, people make a point of establishing their credentials. Aside from that, lots of people post pictures, all kinds of things. I think the point is that you can (almost) share as much or as little as you like. That creates room for abuse, but it's not like it isn't governed by certain rules. Or that it doesn't, simultaneously, create other room for more honesty. Or insight.
> 
> Wait, what exactly do you mean by this? I mean, before we distinguish it from "_fat community politics_," let's be clear on exactly what we're talking about.
> 
> ...


 
I think fat politics are more personal because it is about our bodies, your lover, how you use your body in the world to get to work to do your job to form your image. so that is indeed more personal than gun rights. abortion is also personal. but generally speaking foreign policy etc... I put up there with gun rights. it is a totally different can of worms and people of all stripes can fall on any side of those kinds of politcal issues. but your body is definitely personal. if it isn't it should be. the big fight in fat rights is that people realize fat people's bodies are personal an your body isn't something they should be allowed to pontificate on as if they are discussing going to war. out bodies don't belong to them. 

actually face book has more security regarding who people are and it does respond to fakery fairly well.


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## Saoirse (Jan 29, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> none of it has really bothered me personally. I mean, people can still post. I know I don't depend on this as my only venue. the rest will work itself out. if it is not something people want it will go away anyway. that is how a market place works.



No one really cares if it bothers you. It bothers a lot of other posters, enough to make this a priority.


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## Yakatori (Jan 29, 2015)

Saoirse said:


> "_No one really cares if it bothers you. It bothers a lot of other posters, enough to make this a priority._"


You know, I don't really think she meant to dismiss anyone's concerns. Actually, I read it more to agree with you all, just on a general level. I think it's more on the mechanics of how to move forward. Obviously, different people, coming from different experiences & values, will approach it in different ways.

Like, there are hipsters, who merely _dress-like-aunt-Jackie_. Just as there are others, who've (not-so-carefully) crafted entire personae around the actors (Shelley Duvall?) & classic film characters they were exposed to in an earlier youth. 




superodalisque said:


> "_you are thinking of twitter_"


I know about Twitter, it's character limit, etc... I guess I am just that much unfamiliar with Facebook. But I'm asking: the way that you & *CleverBomb* (& others), cut & paste parts of individual posts and then multi-quote those sections into to one single, cohesive whole; basically responding to several posts or different arguments in the space of a more developed essay; is that something you typically see on Facebook? Anywhere in particular?



superodalisque said:


> "_I think fat politics are more personal because it is about our bodies, your lover, how you use your body in the world to get to work to do your job to form your image. so that is indeed more personal than gun rights. abortion is also personal. but generally speaking foreign policy etc... I put up there with gun rights. it is a totally different can of worms and people of all stripes can fall on any side of those kinds of politcal issues. but your body is definitely personal. if it isn't it should be. the big fight in fat rights is that people realize fat people's bodies are personal an *your body isn't something they should be allowed to pontificate on* as if they are discussing going to war. *out bodies don't belong to them. *..._"


That's interesting. Particularly given the whole expression about guns rights: "_...from my cold, dead hands_" That is, I think people will tend to personalize anything that's particularly important to them.

A person who's physically-disabled, for example, will tend personalize an issue like accessibility; whereas a non-disabled person might not even consider something like that.

A person who's either very religious or an outspoken atheist might consider the freedom to express that particular aspect of themselves as most important. Whereas, there are others that could not care less, either about the presence or absence of religion.

Likewise, gun rights advocates, as well, now generally tend to shy away from more basic appeals towards _pragmatism_, only to lean very heavily on this loose concept of the gun as a distinctly political symbol, a personal token of their dissent either or both towards whatever current administration and/or the very concept of being ruled or subject to laws. Just as people who don't like guns are also, more or less, at beginning of doing something similar.

Also, in working with veterans, wouldn't you also say there's a kind of identity-politics at work there as well? One that extends towards current soldiers & their immediate families, but maybe not so far outside of that. So, that is sort of personal as well.

So, really, I don't see how fat politics is so different in that particular respect. But, more importantly, even when it comes to those areas (race? orientation/sexuality? public health?) where I imagine that you would deem it's legitimately _more-personal_, even there I think there's a practical benefit to people having some mechanisms through which to speak beyond their own most immediate point of view. Like, just to be some voice as an alternative to being none at all.


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## superodalisque (Jan 30, 2015)

I do think it is a problem if people get too overly invested in what happens on one site. that can really make a person myopic and one dimensional. better to be involved in a lot of different experiences instead of being unrealistic and expecting one place to provide everything.


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## Yakatori (Jan 30, 2015)

^I remember you talking about this before. Particularly with respect to folks that don't get out so much outside of this place. I believe you that it's a problem. I'm just not too sure if the outlet of a particular site is even an underlying cause.

I think there have always been people who're either anti-social or socially retarded or introverted or anywhere on the range of what you now see magnified on such large display in today's online world. It's more that, until 20 years ago or so, these types of personalities were largely invisible outside of their mainstream depiction in a movie or TV show of something like that.

Now it's like every single kind of nerd out there is in community with every other. And the rest of the world as well. 

I don't really believe that giving people an easier outlet caused them to recede into that. I think, quite the contrary, it makes them more aware of the rest of the world out there. And what might interest them in it.


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## Yakatori (Jan 31, 2015)

I noticed this new effect where....you can see new posts reflected in a click or refresh of the "new" button, but while said post is not yet actually posted to the thread. But, you can still read it by clicking on the user's profile and stats...

I want to think I'm just imagining it. But I'm not.


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## CleverBomb (Jan 31, 2015)

Is this related to my observation (phantom thread pages) in post #25 on this thread?


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## Yakatori (Jan 31, 2015)

This is sort of _the-opposite-of_ that. The post-itself being _le fantôme_, as opposed to any # of thread-pages.


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## lucca23v2 (Jan 31, 2015)

These new changes/patches or whatever it was that they implemented is seriously wreaking havoc in the forum.


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## penguin (Feb 1, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> none of it has really bothered me personally.



This is a thread for those who _are_ bothered and wish to air their concerns.



superodalisque said:


> I do think it is a problem if people get too overly invested in what happens on one site. that can really make a person myopic and one dimensional. better to be involved in a lot of different experiences instead of being unrealistic and expecting one place to provide everything.



Aside from the fact there are very few places that offer what Dims did that don't focus on the porn, and that you have no freaking clue what people do or don't do, even if they post about it, comments like these are unnecessary when people have legitimate reasons to be concerned. There's a big difference between a site and a community. Any ol' webpage can become a site or forum, but it's the people that make it a community. When you start treating the people like they don't matter, change the rules and leadership behind the scenes and tell people to stfu about it, you've got to expect people to speak up.

You may be fine with how things have changed around here, but that doesn't mean everyone else _is_ or that they should be. Let us air our concerns.


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## lucca23v2 (Feb 1, 2015)

AM I going crazy or did the name of this thread change?


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## CleverBomb (Feb 1, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> This is sort of _the-opposite-of_ that. The post-itself being _le fantôme_, as opposed to any # of thread-pages.


That's interesting.


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## lille (Feb 1, 2015)

Anyone know who changed the thread title, 'cause it wasn't me...


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## Isa (Feb 1, 2015)

penguin said:


> Aside from the fact there are very few places that offer what Dims did that don't focus on the porn, and that you have no freaking clue what people do or don't do, even if they post about it, comments like these are unnecessary when people have legitimate reasons to be concerned. There's a big difference between a site and a community. Any ol' webpage can become a site or forum, but it's the people that make it a community. When you start treating the people like they don't matter, change the rules and leadership behind the scenes and tell people to stfu about it, you've got to expect people to speak up.
> 
> You may be fine with how things have changed around here, but that doesn't mean everyone else _is_ or that they should be. Let us air our concerns.



LOL, this hasn't been a community in quite some time. Even though it once was, DIM has pretty much been about porn/guys getting off for years now. Those that cannot admit this are really doing themselves a disservice. 

Having said that, the constant changes without any info behind them are unsettling and for those that continue to use the site on the regular, you should be concerned. Of course, no one seems to really care, which is very telling about how valued the posters here are.


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## lucca23v2 (Feb 1, 2015)

lille said:


> Anyone know who changed the thread title, 'cause it wasn't me...



I thought it was changed... I thought it was Hey Admin..... Admin probably changed it.


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## lucca23v2 (Feb 1, 2015)

I also noticed that the editing function is open again. This time I can edit posts I made weeks ago.


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## penguin (Feb 1, 2015)

Isa said:


> LOL, this hasn't been a community in quite some time. Even though it once was, DIM has pretty much been about porn/guys getting off for years now. Those that cannot admit this are really doing themselves a disservice.



I guess it depends on which boards you frequent. If you rarely made it out of the paysite board, then I can understand why you'd think so. Plenty of others have felt that sense of community and have developed friendship and relationships here.



> Having said that, the constant changes without any info behind them are unsettling and for those that continue to use the site on the regular, you should be concerned. Of course, no one seems to really care, which is very telling about how valued the posters here are.



We're no longer valued, that is clear. It's certainly not the way to encourage us to donate money.


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## lucca23v2 (Feb 1, 2015)

CleverBomb said:


> Off-topic, but there seems to be a glitch on the boards.
> 
> Props to djudex for posting the question that got me looking for the problem.
> Please rep him on this post for his insight!
> ...



I have one more to add.. this thread...:changes... fka Hey Admin" it shows 4 pages, but there are only 2....


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## Yakatori (Feb 2, 2015)

Isa said:


> "_LOL, this hasn't been a community in quite some time. Even though it once was, DIM has pretty much been about porn/guys getting off for years now. Those that cannot admit this are really doing themselves a disservice._"


I once had this (French) boss. She was beautiful in that certain way, but had no qualms about chain-smoking in my general direction. A beat-up copy of the _The Village Voice_, she would just toss it smacking-down onto the table-top, & leaf through the back proclaiming, "_Dis-gusting! This is all just *filth*, the whole, *entire*-thing!_...

Now that I'm an actual "_supporter_," I finally see unlocked _the Clubhouse_, privy to sides of other members I never really (then) got the chance to know. It makes me feel...sad...in this confused-hard-to-articulate sort of way.

But, if I had a choice, I really can't see how I'd choose to feel some other way about it. Or nothing at all.


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## MisticalMisty (Feb 2, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> Now that I'm an actual "_supporter_," I finally see unlocked _the Clubhouse_, privy to sides of other members I never really (then) got the chance to know. It makes me feel...sad...in this confused-hard-to-articulate sort of way.



So, none of the content was erased from the Clubhouse before opening it up to new members? If that's true, it's a TOTALLY douchey move.


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## Yakatori (Feb 2, 2015)

Because....I'm not a new member. I was just, previously, not yet at ClubHouse-level?


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## Tad (Feb 2, 2015)

I'm a bit of two minds about the clubhouse re-opening, with the old material there.

On the one hand, at the time we all wrote that stuff, the expectation was that the club house would be an on-going thing, so we never knew who might join it in the future, and whether we might no longer be a member but other people we'd never met would be. So in this regard, what is the big deal?

On the other hand, after it was shut down for so long, I'd imagine that even the most recent posts, up until now, are years old, and reflect people and relationships at a point in time that is long past. Sure, we might have other posts on the public boards just as old or older, but those are spread out, well buried, and no so clearly frozen in amber. Plus, I know that at least one member who was active the last time has since passed away. From that perspective, it feels kind of disrespectful... like publishing papers students had entered into an essay contest years ago.

So....no promises were broken, in letter or spirit, but still it feels odd to me.


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## RubyRipples (Feb 3, 2015)

I have sent a pm to Admin but posting here too, so that if my old account doesnt post on here by 5 February perhaps some kind soul on this thread can tell Admin again!

I haven't been able to log into Dimensions for weeks on end and can't even read the forums as everything seems to be "private" now. I cant even contact the owner or Admin as after a two hour full search there appears to be NO WAY to contact the site unless you are already logged in. 

I have asked two friends on here if they would alert admin but at least one of them has been ill and will have forgotten about it and the other has obviously forgotten. (or admin havent done anything  ). So after hours spent trying to find a way to contact the admin and asking two friends to help, I have in desperation had to make up this new account to alert someone. I really miss reading the Foodee board. I still can't work out why I cant log on as Im sure I had my name and password properly but my registered email is inactive now. However, as the security question for spammers "Which country is north of the US" keeps telling me that my answer "Canada" is incorrect, I'm stumped. 

Anyway, if Im not back with my own name in a couple of days here to post and confirm, could someone pls poke .. someone.

Thanks!


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## FreeThinker (Feb 3, 2015)

Tad said:


> I'm a bit of two minds about the clubhouse re-opening, with the old material there.
> 
> On the one hand, at the time we all wrote that stuff, the expectation was that the club house would be an on-going thing, so we never knew who might join it in the future...



As a former Clubhouse member, I posted with the awareness that a post, while it may be in a protected forum, is forever. Sure, my life experience since then would probably not compel me to post in the way I did, but if you don't want an echo, don't yell into the canyon.

Any form of expression is bought with privacy, and not just on the internet. What must people have thought about Edvard Munch after he painted "The Scream"? Inferences about his private life, his fitness as a member of society, even his sanity, must have been made. He would have realized this, and decided the protection of some degree of privacy was not worth the stifling of his expression.

Yeah, i've posted a lot of stuff in the CH that I wouldn't mind if no-one ever saw, but I don't really care if they do, either.

What I guess I'm saying, Tad, is that you needn't feel any more a voyeur in reading old Clubhouse posts than you would in listening to early Beatles or watching Laurel and Hardy.

We sprayed on the wall, and we knew someone could amble up to it years later and try to make sense of our scrawlings. 'Twas now.



I will NOT, however, be held responsible for anyone actually dying of boredom.


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## FreeThinker (Feb 3, 2015)

lille said:


> Anyone know who changed the thread title, 'cause it wasn't me...



That's disturbing.

I don't shirk accountability for what I post, but I would like to know that words attributed to me are, in fact, my own.


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## lucca23v2 (Feb 3, 2015)

Honestly... whatever changes they made are getting annoying. I don't mind changes, but before you make them: A- at least tell us you are making them and B- make sure you know what ripple effects it will have on other parts of the forum. 

For example, 

-Being able to edit old posts (There are some posts I made a few weeks back that I am able to edit) Not necessarily a bad thing, but not a good thing either.

- Phantom pages, as example in this thread. It shows that there are 4 pages, but in actuality there are only 3.

- When viewing "New Posts" I have to sift through a lot of paysite stuff to find the new threads. I would rather see less paysite stuff and more of the new threads. Maybe a whole separate thing like the clubhouse use to be. Maybe the paysite stuff should only be available to the people who pay for a dimensions subscription...JMO

On a side note, changing the name of the thread is akin to censorship... what is next? will we not be allowed to use curse words? will our posts be checked and "edited" before they are posted in the thread?


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## Saoirse (Feb 3, 2015)

just what in the fuck is going on


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## tonynyc (Feb 3, 2015)

Saoirse said:


> just what in the fuck is going on


 

*I think WWE Hall of Famer - Roddy Piper - can sum this "Dims" scenario perfectly and to quote...*


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## lucca23v2 (Feb 3, 2015)

I use to love Rowdy Roddy Piper....He was my fave.. I use to love watching his "show" in the middle of wrestling..lol


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## wrestlingguy (Feb 3, 2015)

A couple of points.

There isn't much known about the new owner(s), except for the fact that they seem to be invested in websites much like this one, though quite varied in interest. I'm sure they're feeling their way around here themselves, tweaking the site to more represent their business model. Seems obvious that they don't have a horse in the race, they aren't fat activists or in the BBW porn business, or even run fat social events, so this is as new to them as they are to "us" (and really if you look around these days, how much of an us is really left?)

I may be in a minority here when I say this, but I saw far more cleansing of threads and posts prior to the new owners taking over. I'm not going to say the old owner was responsible, but I saw more posts deliberately edited/removed during the 4-5 years prior that I began to post infrequently and only come back on occasion. With so many new faces, and so many old friends gone from here, I feel like an outsider, but I also feel I can be more objective.

Again my opinion, but I think the more recent changes are the result of tweaking the board to see what they have & if they're guilty of anything, it's simply not communicating those attempts at changing to the regular posters.

Around 2007, I joined a website called BBW Chat Zone. Similar site to Dims, without the Paysite Board. Over the years, the owner of that site became ill, and for the past few years, the mods have essentially run the boards. If any of you think Dimensions has gone downhill, take a trip over to this website, and you'll have a new found sense of appreciation.

Hopefully everyone involved will let this play out before they jump the gun and bail out of here.


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## RubyRipples (Feb 4, 2015)

RubyRipples said:


> I have sent a pm to Admin but posting here too, so that if my old account doesnt post on here by 5 February perhaps some kind soul on this thread can tell Admin again!
> 
> I haven't been able to log into Dimensions for weeks on end and can't even read the forums as everything seems to be "private" now. I cant even contact the owner or Admin as after a two hour full search there appears to be NO WAY to contact the site unless you are already logged in.
> 
> ...



Nearly 48 hours and despite my pm to admin and post here, I've had no reply. Can someone tell me seriously if we have no admin on the site any more? Thanks.


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## Gordi (Feb 4, 2015)

Thanks for the info in BBW Chat Zone.
I went to check it out. Really haven't learned everything from this site...maybe its time to learn the other site.




wrestlingguy said:


> A couple of points.
> 
> There isn't much known about the new owner(s), except for the fact that they seem to be invested in websites much like this one, though quite varied in interest. I'm sure they're feeling their way around here themselves, tweaking the site to more represent their business model. Seems obvious that they don't have a horse in the race, they aren't fat activists or in the BBW porn business, or even run fat social events, so this is as new to them as they are to "us" (and really if you look around these days, how much of an us is really left?)
> 
> ...


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## lucca23v2 (Feb 4, 2015)

Holy cheese and crackers batman.. I created an account on BBW Chat zone... yesterday.. I logged in today and was bombarded by ims..


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## Yakatori (Feb 5, 2015)

wrestlingguy said:


> "_...I feel like an outsider, but I also feel *I can be more objective.*_"


Yeah, yeah, me too. 



wrestlingguy said:


> "_...they're feeling their way around here themselves, tweaking the site to more represent their business model.... don't have a horse in the race, they aren't fat activists or in the BBW porn business, or even run fat social events, so this is as new to them as they are to "us_"


Right. But, in that respect, I don't think it necessarily hurts for people to voice concerns, talk about what they like or don't like. In the end, it's all valuable input. 

So far, it looks mostly like a question of formatting: People are basically comfortable with the idea of web-model participation (practically, as a good number of the most active & long-term participants have done some web-modeling). But, by having BOTH an explicit/uncensored PaySite Folder in addition to a regular, existing Paysite Folder and the way how threads/topics are organized by recent updates, this contributes to a general facade which seems to define (circumscribe) & speak-for the remainder of the community in way that's inconsistent with the rest of its values. 

Am I even close? 



RubyRipples said:


> ..have in desperation had to make up this new account to alert someone....still can't work out why I cant log on as Im sure I had my name and password properly but my registered email is inactive now....Anyway, if Im not back with my own name in a couple of days here to post and confirm, could someone pls poke .. someone...Thanks!


I recognize your handle, but you didn't specify the precise difference between this and your old screen-name. So, how does the Admin even know who you are (just based on this thread)? 



lille said:


> "_Anyone know who changed the thread title, 'cause it wasn't me..._"


Duh...New Admin obviously a huge Bowie fan: 

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl3vxEudif8[/ame]


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## RubyRipples (Feb 5, 2015)

Just spent ten minutes making a post and it hasnt posted. 

@ Yakatori,

I've been a member of Dimensions almost eleven years since April 2004, several of those as a supporting member. I've made thousands of posts on the fora and made dozens of friends in chat when it was busy. Based on that alone, I know that the mods know me, even if the new site owner doesn't. I actually DID specify my correct username in the pm that I sent to them directly originally, and one quick search of the member list will show the difference even if they didn't know. The only difference between that name and this is that I have a space between the Ruby and Ripples in my "real" account. If the mods are the same people they used to be, then I think they all know me too.

Real account - http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/member.php?u=4294


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## Tad (Feb 5, 2015)

RubyRipples said:


> Just spent ten minutes making a post and it hasnt posted.
> 
> @ Yakatori,
> 
> I've been a member of Dimensions almost eleven years since April 2004, several of those as a supporting member. I've made thousands of posts on the fora and made dozens of friends in chat when it was busy. Based on that alone, I know that the mods know me, even if the new site owner doesn't. I actually DID specify my correct username in the pm that I sent to them directly originally, and one quick search of the member list will show the difference even if they didn't know. The only difference between that name and this is that I have a space between the Ruby and Ripples in my "real" account. If the mods are the same people they used to be, then I think they all know me too.



Ruby: perhaps ironically, your first try at this post got flagged for moderator approval, as happens occasionally for new posters.

Moderators dont have the tools to re-set passwords or the like, so Im afraid that is something that will take Admin action to fix.


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## Tiffany08 (Feb 5, 2015)

I Agree with you Lilie.


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## CleverBomb (Feb 7, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> Right. But, in that respect, I don't think it necessarily hurts for people to voice concerns, talk about what they like or don't like. In the end, it's all valuable input.
> 
> So far, it looks mostly like a question of formatting: People are basically comfortable with the idea of web-model participation (practically, as a good number of the most active & long-term participants have done some web-modeling). *But, by having BOTH an explicit/uncensored PaySite Folder in addition to a regular, existing Paysite Folder and the way how threads/topics are organized by recent updates, this contributes to a general facade which seems to define (circumscribe) & speak-for the remainder of the community in way that's inconsistent with the rest of its values.*


I've wanted to engage the subject of the bolded part of your comment for a few days now, so thank you for providing a jumping-off point.

One thing that's troubled me about the handling (deletion) of the previous thread on this topic was that it silenced some of the concerns held by a significant part of the community, thereby glossing over the distinction between the context provided by previous rules and that of the current ones. And the latter point holds for the exposure of the legacy Clubhouse board contents as well. 

That is, the expected audience when the previous content was posted is different than the currently expected audience, because the screening factors have changed. For the boards in general, the old rules meant that visitors seeking graphic nudity would quickly move on to sites where that was available, because it wasn't available on this site as such. It was a subtle screen, but it had a noticeable effect -- it felt, and to some extent actually was, a "safer" conversational space than at sites with more permissive content policies. And for the Clubhouse, access was limited to people who had directly contributed to the site's upkeep over and above just providing ad views and clicks. 

It's probably fair to say that some of the legacy posts on the forums would not have been made (and indeed, that some posters might not have participated here at all) if the current rules had been in place at the time. However, the lack of a clear demarcation between the older and current posts creates the impression that all of the posts were made by people who were expecting them to be read by the site's current and expected audience, one without those audience-screening factors. The, "hey, what's going on here?" discussion was (and in this thread, perhaps still is) a visible indication of that demarcation, since the addition of the uncensored paysite forum didn't provide any discussion of the change's implications; that discussion happened in the thread about the rep system glitches and was deleted along with it.

Yakitori, the distinction I'm making with your post is that while you're discussing the characterization of the current posting community -- which is a very important issue, and I completely agree with your take on it -- I'm focusing on the implicit re-characterization of the community's past 9 years of posts.


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## superodalisque (Feb 7, 2015)

CleverBomb said:


> I've wanted to engage the subject of the bolded part of your comment for a few days now, so thank you for providing a jumping-off point.
> 
> One thing that's troubled me about the handling (deletion) of the previous thread on this topic was that it silenced some of the concerns held by a significant part of the community, thereby glossing over the distinction between the context provided by previous rules and that of the current ones. And the latter point holds for the exposure of the legacy Clubhouse board contents as well.
> 
> ...


 

which is often what a lot of us were always trying to get people to see -- that the context would not always be the same. and people should have understood that every post should be written in a way that it can be taken in isolation and pretty much stand on it's own in any space. the assumption that the site would always be controlled by the same people and administered in the same way is the real problem. now that things are changing people want to blame the new admin etc... but the truth is when you put something out there you can't control the context or how people look at it. so people had better make sure before they post something that it's something they can bear anyone seeing in any circumstance. 

there was always a lot of moaning and groaning from many corners when people were asking for things to be more SA centered when they saw the direction the wind was blowing in. over the years it had always gotten farther and farther away from evolving fat politics and focusing more and more on somebody's crotch or profit. well, now it isn't even a pretense and this is what happens. but that can't be blamed on the admins. it was tolerated and celebrated for a long time before that situation ever changed. people gave all of their power away to that fantasy crowd that spoke with such certainty about absolutely everything. so now when people come in and ask where the real 500lb women you don't have to pay have gone, the answer is somewhere they get at least some respect and are not openly treated like free sex workers. people felt a long time ago that they couldn't trust the situation and tried the best they could to remove as many things, including themselves, that they no longer wanted here . it didn't take a new admin for that to happen.


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## CleverBomb (Feb 7, 2015)

The thing is, there _was_ a good-faith assumption that it would always be controlled by the same people and managed in the same way, in large part because it was quite visibly owned and operated by someone who had an established reputation both here and in the real world SA community. Whatever anyone thought of Conrad, they knew who he was.

I recall several discussions (usually prompted by the chat going offline for extended periods) about what the community would or should do if the site went away. I also recall a few about how to keep the site going as-was if Conrad retired from running it. I do not recall any discussion whatsoever anticipating the implications of transferring ownership to someone with a different vision for the site, because I don't think the possibility occurred to anyone (or almost anyone) before it happened. 

Yes, the Internet Never Forgets, and yes, anything can be removed from its initial context. That said, I don't think anyone expected (and few even considered the possibility) that the forum itself would be re-contexted as a whole.


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## superodalisque (Feb 7, 2015)

CleverBomb said:


> The thing is, there _was_ a good-faith assumption that it would always be controlled by the same people and managed in the same way, in large part because it was quite visibly owned and operated by someone who had an established reputation both here and in the real world SA community. Whatever anyone thought of Conrad, they knew who he was.
> 
> I recall several discussions (usually prompted by the chat going offline for extended periods) about what the community would or should do if the site went away. I also recall a few about how to keep the site going as-was if Conrad retired from running it. I do not recall any discussion whatsoever anticipating the implications of transferring ownership to someone with a different vision for the site, because I don't think the possibility occurred to anyone (or almost anyone) before it happened.
> 
> Yes, the Internet Never Forgets, and yes, anything can be removed from its initial context. That said, I don't think anyone expected (and few even considered the possibility) that the forum itself would be re-contexted as a whole.


 
not assuming that would be pretty naïve. people not only retire, they have accidents they die and so do the people around them. people go bankrupt. all kinds of unforeseen things happen. also your own personal ideas might change about what you want the more you know about a situation. by the time you find out what's really behind a lot of stuff it might be too late. 

and as I mentioned before, the change in what people were willing to trust to the site had already happened many years ago. blaming the new admin for where it has ended up isn't the whole story. it was going down this road anyway. the changes that might seem drastic to many are pretty predictable. it goes right along from the term BBW evolving from being a politically empowering and even feminist to being basically just another porn term. that is the legacy we're dealing with here.


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## Saoirse (Feb 7, 2015)

omg srsly guys


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## tonynyc (Feb 7, 2015)

Blockierer said:


> This may sound rough, the www is free for both the owners and the users of websites. Frustrating what's going on with the forums, but the owner can do what he wants in his house.  Nobody is forced to enter his house.
> As a long-term user all what I can say is, thank you Conrad for your good work.


 
*Pretty much this - not only is the site free and it is true that the new owners can pretty much make any "changes"-but, there are ramifications to what is done. *

*In addition- no one is forced to enter any Forum that is not their "cup of Tea" it's not like you have a situation like this....*







*In addition, another problem is that you go from -Conrad to the current Admin... In one side of the spectrum you go from having a good deal of knowledge to someone who is just running things "behind the scenes".... *




penguin said:


> This is a thread for those who _are_ bothered and wish to air their concerns.
> 
> 
> Aside from the fact there are very few places that offer what Dims did that don't focus on the porn, and that you have no freaking clue what people do or don't do, even if they post about it, comments like these are unnecessary when people have legitimate reasons to be concerned. There's a big difference between a site and a community. Any ol' webpage can become a site or forum, but it's the people that make it a community. When you start treating the people like they don't matter, change the rules and leadership behind the scenes and tell people to stfu about it, you've got to expect people to speak up.
> ...


 
*True and as far as the "adult" sites in the Dims Board- It is pretty tame as opposed to what is out there. *



penguin said:


> I* guess it depends on which boards you frequent.* If you rarely made it out of the paysite board, then I can understand why you'd think so. Plenty of others have felt that sense of community and have developed friendship and relationships here.
> 
> 
> We're no longer valued, that is clear. It's certainly not the way to encourage us to donate money.


 

*I highlighted your statement because your Dims experience can pretty much be which Boards one is comfortable in taking part in - nothing is being forced down anyone's throat...*



wrestlingguy said:


> A couple of points.
> 
> There isn't much known about the new owner(s), except for the fact that they seem to be invested in websites much like this one, though quite varied in interest. I'm sure they're feeling their way around here themselves, tweaking the site to more represent their business model. Seems obvious that they don't have a horse in the race, they aren't fat activists or in the BBW porn business, or even run fat social events, so this is as new to them as they are to "us" (and really if you look around these days, how much of an us is really left?)
> 
> ...


 
*Yes, it will be interesting to see how this plays out- good point*


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## superodalisque (Feb 7, 2015)

tonynyc said:


> *True and as far as the "adult" sites in the Dims Board- It is pretty tame as opposed to what is out there. *
> 
> *I highlighted your statement because your Dims experience can pretty much be which Boards one is comfortable in taking part in - nothing is being forced down anyone's throat...*


 

some aspects of the boards are fairly tame unless you start reading in the library where degrading, exploding, or torturing people with the "horror" of being fat is okay and in the past where even aspects of pedophila popped up. 

nope, you are absolutely right. nothing is forced down anyone's throat, which is why a lot of people are not posting much in the way of photos as they once were unless covered basically from neck to ankle like they generally do out in the general public or unless they are a sex worker. 

so what do you end up having? a watered down fat porn site where it's the same old website come on as everywhere else where potential paying members are? how unique or marketable is that really ? the stuff that made it unique interesting and different have been smothered and forced out. they asked for it and they got it.


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## Marlayna (Feb 8, 2015)

Personally, the only difference that I see, is that posting is down (is there a "boycott" or something?), and that people who aren't offended by fat-girl nipples, have the prerogative of seeing them or not.
I wish Conrad, our former Chief, was still here, but things change, and nothing stays the same. The new Administrator isn't hands-on, but I belong to boards where that's the same case, so I'm used to it.
We still have moderators, and that's what's important to me.


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## superodalisque (Feb 8, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> Personally, the only difference that I see, is that posting is down (is there a "boycott" or something?), and that people who aren't offended by fat-girl nipples, have the prerogative of seeing them or not.
> I wish Conrad, our former Chief, was still here, but things change, and nothing stays the same. The new Administrator isn't hands-on, but I belong to boards where that's the same case, so I'm used to it.
> We still have moderators, and that's what's important to me.



people here both male and female have generally always thought fat nudity was beautiful. it's what has been allowed to come along even before that that people have gotten tired of. 

so when a place exposes people to negativity that they feel is not so different from fat prejudice they move on to where they feel wanted as a human being.

personally, as far as the forums go, actually don't mind being treated like an adult and not having my thoughts micro managed and getting banned kicked out or sanctioned for stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with any forum rules whatsoever. I don't know if so many people actually left as were forced out or banned. 

people asking for acceptance and tolerance might actually get to practice using some of that themselves in the situation now where people don't bring so much of their personal opinions into moderating or administrating. nice change actually if that ends up being true.


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## penguin (Feb 8, 2015)

It's a bit like going out every Friday to the local bar/pub for a casual dinner with friends. You like to sit out on the deck, have a good meal, a few drinks, and catch up with friends. You might meet a few new people who are out there dining as well, or your friends might bring along some of their friends. The crowd isn't always the same, but that's a good thing. You can sit there for a few hours eating, drinking, talking, laughing, and it feels good. The staff know you by name, they know what drink you like, and you enjoy your time there. 

You know there are other parts to the bar, the main bar area with the sports channels, the pool tables around the other side, but you don't usually go there. You might pop your head in every now and then to see who's there and what's happening, but you've got your preferred spot and you're happy there.

Then one day the bar's owner unexpectedly sells it to someone who's owned a couple of shops before, but never a bar. It's unexpected, because you've seen the owner around a lot, had a few drinks with him, and have gotten to know him. He didn't say a word to you or to the staff. He might have said something to the managers, but they're not saying. They didn't have a team meeting to let everyone know about the changes, they were just in place. They turned up to work on Monday to find a new boss with new rules, and lots of changes.

Little things at first, like the price of drinks went up a little - not a lot, but a noticeable amount. The pool tables were taken away and a stage was put up, "for live music" you were told, but that didn't explain the pole. The set up slowly changed, but without any firm word. It started to not feel as comfortable as it used to. The staff weren't unfriendly, but they were obviously uncertain and on edge, which the customers picked up on. When asked what was going on, there was no answer.

Then you find out that what was the pool room now has strippers. There's nothing wrong with strippers, in fact, you like them and have gone to a few clubs yourself. But now there's a very different clientele coming in, ones coming just to see the strippers, folks who seem to believe that everyone else is there for the same reason. The tone has changed. Even though your little area out on the deck might not have been affected directly, apart from drinks costing more and the staff being standoffish, it's not the great place it used to be.

Sure, change happens, it's a part of life. But when your favourite Friday night hangout suddenly changes from a friendly bar to a pseudo-strip joint, it's unnerving. If you wanted to go to a strip joint, you would, right? If you wanted to go out to dinner and hang out with friends, you'd come here. But here no longer feels comfortable. You're not sure if you'll come in next time to find the wait staff are suddenly topless. Again, that's not a bad thing in general, but it's not why you come here or what you expect. It's like the new owner wanted to run a strip club but didn't want to take over an existing one or start one from scratch. They wanted to find an established bar and change it until it matched their vision, not caring about the established clientele and how that could damage their profits, or how it would affect the staff. Staff who have gone from working in a bar to working in a strip club overnight. There's an influx of people who come in just to see the naked ladies, who behave in ways that wouldn't be acceptable before.

This isn't about "lol, change happens, suck it up or shut up." It's about taking an established community and forcing it to become something else. The tone changes. The expectation changes. We're allowed to be unhappy about it, and it doesn't mean we need to "get a life" (which is a horribly condescending and arrogant attitude).


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## Marlayna (Feb 8, 2015)

Everyone knows there's nipples at the end of fatty-girl tits, I don't see where the whole tone of the place is like a strip joint. Sorry.
If my favorite hang-out replaced the pool table with a stripper pole, I would go with the flow... but that's me. I don't think the perv factor went up here, at all.
Personally, my breasts are very nice, but I don't have a need to post pics of them on the internet... but again, that's just me.http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Marlayna (Feb 8, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> people here both male and female have generally always thought fat nudity was beautiful. it's what has been allowed to come along even before that that people have gotten tired of.
> 
> so when a place exposes people to negativity that they feel is not so different from fat prejudice they move on to where they feel wanted as a human being.
> 
> ...


I didn't realize anyone was forced out or banned, but maybe it's because I stay out of the political threads. I don't like to raise my blood pressure unnecessarily.
I don't get the part about exposure to negativity. What do you mean?


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## superodalisque (Feb 8, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> I didn't realize anyone was forced out or banned, but maybe it's because I stay out of the political threads. I don't like to raise my blood pressure unnecessarily.
> I don't get the part about exposure to negativity. What do you mean?


 
quite a number of regular posters who are now very active and prolific elsewhere were perma banned. it wasn't because of anything in hyde park if that is what you mean. there was banning from the old defunct ssbbw forum without any cause at all. a lot of people who were ssbbws didn't even know it existed. people had to be invited. and often they were questioned a lot as well. a lot of women who were ssbbw were never invited at all. then people wondered why with this secret forum there were hardly any visible ssbbws at all.

you could be kicked out because you were supposed to be anti FA if you even talked about any questionable male behavior in the community that needed to be cleared up in order that everyone not look bad. 

people were forced out for being LGBT and challenging ideas regarding that issue. men were kicked out for pushing BHM issues re: fat politics. you would think this would be the place for that. so now people who had a fat political view are gone to other places. all of the vibrant meaningful discussions left and went elsewhere. 

no wonder there are hardly any more posters. who is really left to ? 

it has actually gotten better lately in that way since the official micro managing of what people have to say has been somewhat reduced but i'm afraid the big damage has already been done. a lot of the banning etc... happened pretty much before or just as you got here. you probably never saw it at it's most active which is a shame. you would have really enjoyed it. even chat was very busy all day long. people used to keep it up at work etc...

I honestly think the new admin should reinvite these people. some already have been but I don't know if they are really willing anymore. because it isn't entirely so much about what admins or mods actually did it's what some of the other members went along with and supported. I think they violated too much trust.


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## penguin (Feb 8, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> Everyone knows there's nipples at the end of fatty-girl tits, I don't see where the whole tone of the place is like a strip joint. Sorry.
> If my favorite hang-out replaced the pool table with a stripper pole, I would go with the flow... but that's me. I don't think the perv factor went up here, at all.
> Personally, my breasts are very nice, but I don't have a need to post pics of them on the internet... but again, that's just me.http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/



You might be fine with how things are, great. That doesn't mean that others are. This thread is about those who are unhappy with the changes and are wishing to have a dialogue with the new owner, so there's no need to roll your eyes at us because we're not comfortable with how things have been handled.

You shown that you're hypocritical about loving the paysite boards while looking down on those who post photos elsewhere on Dims. There's no reason to shit on those who do want to share their photos. It doesn't matter why they're posting them, whether it's to boost their self esteem, to try to feel good about themselves, or because they genuinely enjoy it. If you don't want to respect those that do, fine, but keep it to yourself because your hypocrisy is nauseating.


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## superodalisque (Feb 8, 2015)

penguin said:


> You might be fine with how things are, great. That doesn't mean that others are. This thread is about those who are unhappy with the changes and are wishing to have a dialogue with the new owner, so there's no need to roll your eyes at us because we're not comfortable with how things have been handled.
> 
> You shown that you're hypocritical about loving the paysite boards while looking down on those who post photos elsewhere on Dims. There's no reason to shit on those who do want to share their photos. It doesn't matter why they're posting them, whether it's to boost their self esteem, to try to feel good about themselves, or because they genuinely enjoy it. If you don't want to respect those that do, fine, but keep it to yourself because your hypocrisy is nauseating.


 
I don't think she should have to keep anything to herself on a forum if she doesn't think it's a good idea. if people had paid more attention to her they might not be desperately scrambling now to get things removed. paysite people know exactly what they are getting into and why. some of the people who might just now be figuring out that they are even sexually viable might not and may need a heads up. 

don't like her opinion . don't look. 

I like the way this forum might force a few more people to behave like actual adults -- for a change. sometimes spewing constant immature hate speech is also nauseating just because another person happens to have a different opinion.

btw: I love the way that people actually have to sign I now. that will help a lot of things as well.


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## penguin (Feb 8, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> I don't think she should have to keep anything to herself on a forum if she doesn't think it's a good idea. if people had paid more attention to her they might not be desperately scrambling now to get things removed. paysite people know exactly what they are getting into and why. some of the people who might just now be figuring out that they are even sexually viable might not.



There is a difference between expressing a differing opinion and discussing an idea, and telling people they're essentially stupid because they do things she doesn't.

I won't speak for anyone else in regards to removing photos from the site. I did it because I felt that how the ownership change was handled and how the other changes were implemented showed that we are no longer being treated as valued members of a community, but instead are viewed as nothing more than page clicks and cash. 

I chose to remove my photos and to stop sharing them because it now feels like this place is about pushing porn, which brings in a different group of people. I joined Dims because I was looking for acceptance and understanding, and found people who knew what I was going through and showed me that I could get there, too. Porn is great in general, but it has it's place. I had no issue with the old paysite board. I have an issue with what has happened, and I can see Dims is going in a direction with which I'm not comfortable.



> don't like her opinion . don't look.



I don't put people on ignore. I read the threads I'm involved in. She should be allowed to post irrelevant and condescending attitudes, but I'm the one who should look away?


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## superodalisque (Feb 8, 2015)

penguin said:


> There is a difference between expressing a differing opinion and discussing an idea, and telling people they're essentially stupid because they do things she doesn't.
> 
> I won't speak for anyone else in regards to removing photos from the site. I did it because I felt that how the ownership change was handled and how the other changes were implemented showed that we are no longer being treated as valued members of a community, but instead are viewed as nothing more than page clicks and cash.
> 
> ...


 

just remember that when you do it to people then okay


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## Yakatori (Feb 8, 2015)

CleverBomb said:


> "_..thank you for providing a jumping-off point._"


Knowing I was overlooking some substantial parts of it, that was really my point, to generate some creativity with respect to what are some possible alternatives.



CleverBomb said:


> "_...the handling (deletion) of the previous thread on this topic was that it..._"


I can' really speak for anyone else, but I'm inclined to assume that was just more directed at the overall tone of how some people were expressing their frustration. Particularly in light of how this thread's so far been allowed to proceed.



CleverBomb said:


> "_....the distinction between the context provided by previous rules and that of the current ones...the expected audience when the previous content was posted is different than the currently expected audience, because the screening factors have changed. ....old rules meant that visitors seeking graphic nudity would quickly move on to sites where that was available, because it wasn't available on this site as such. It was a subtle screen, but it had a noticeable effect...the Clubhouse, access was limited to people who had directly contributed to the site's upkeep over and above just providing ad views and clicks...lack of a clear demarcation between the older and current posts creates the impression that..._"


Then, potentially, one possible solution or part of one would be to just eliminate the need for such a demarcation, dumping the Clubhouse altogether. I mean, if the new policies indeed reflect some conscious shift in direction, how would something like the old Clubhouse (no substantial amount of regular postings for >2 years) even fit into that type of format? Wouldn't it be, almost, _confusing_ to just to leave it standing alone like that?


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## Marlayna (Feb 8, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> quite a number of regular posters who are now very active and prolific elsewhere were perma banned. it wasn't because of anything in hyde park if that is what you mean. there was banning from the old defunct ssbbw forum without any cause at all. a lot of people who were ssbbws didn't even know it existed. people had to be invited. and often they were questioned a lot as well. a lot of women who were ssbbw were never invited at all. then people wondered why with this secret forum there were hardly any visible ssbbws at all.
> 
> you could be kicked out because you were supposed to be anti FA if you even talked about any questionable male behavior in the community that needed to be cleared up in order that everyone not look bad.
> 
> ...


Oh, I see. I wasn't privvy to all that. It's too bad, it sounded interesting. A lot of sites must have secret forums that the general population isn't aware of. http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Marlayna (Feb 8, 2015)

penguin said:


> You might be fine with how things are, great. That doesn't mean that others are. This thread is about those who are unhappy with the changes and are wishing to have a dialogue with the new owner, so there's no need to roll your eyes at us because we're not comfortable with how things have been handled.
> 
> You shown that you're hypocritical about loving the paysite boards while looking down on those who post photos elsewhere on Dims. There's no reason to shit on those who do want to share their photos. It doesn't matter why they're posting them, whether it's to boost their self esteem, to try to feel good about themselves, or because they genuinely enjoy it. If you don't want to respect those that do, fine, but keep it to yourself because your hypocrisy is nauseating.


I think you have a chip on your shoulder, and it isn't chocolate.:blink:
The "eyeroll" was for the long (not so great) analogy about how this message board is like a bar that got too sleazy for your tastes.


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## Marlayna (Feb 9, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> I don't think she should have to keep anything to herself on a forum if she doesn't think it's a good idea. if people had paid more attention to her they might not be desperately scrambling now to get things removed. paysite people know exactly what they are getting into and why. some of the people who might just now be figuring out that they are even sexually viable might not and may need a heads up.
> 
> don't like her opinion . don't look.
> 
> ...


Thank you. You're a very intelligent women.:bow:


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## Marlayna (Feb 9, 2015)

Anyone with an email address can become a member and view pics that are posted. That was *always* the case.
If someone doesn't want their child's classmates seeing them, for instance, they shouldn't post them in the first place. jmho.:doh:


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## superodalisque (Feb 9, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> Oh, I see. I wasn't privvy to all that. It's too bad, it sounded interesting. A lot of sites must have secret forums that the general population isn't aware of.


 

that's true. it was just odd at how it all worked with people getting booted or not allowed in for violating no rules at all. but since it's not there anymore I guess that is a non issue anyway. 

things that were arbitrary before were fine, but not so much now though it seems.


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## superodalisque (Feb 9, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> Anyone with an email address can become a member and view pics that are posted. That was *always* the case.
> If someone doesn't want their child's classmates seeing them, for instance, they shouldn't post them in the first place. jmho.:doh:


 
a big group of people figured that one out when the big Donna Simpson thing happened and the general public was hitting the site heavily to the point that it was taken down for an entire week. we lost a huge chunk of people then too because they finally realized...people were complaining about privacy on a public site even then. it's weird the ideas people get about who can see in here.


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## ThatFatGirl (Feb 9, 2015)

Just curious, has anyone who has sent a PM to "Admin" ever received a response? I've sent two and nada.


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## penguin (Feb 9, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> I think you have a chip on your shoulder, and it isn't chocolate.:blink:
> The "eyeroll" was for the long (not so great) analogy about how this message board is like a bar that got too sleazy for your tastes.



You've made quite the habit of making disparaging comments on my posts, about "those who post photos" and "those who have wishlists", which are obviously meant to be veiled comments at/about me, while you drool all over the paysite board. Please take your hypocrisy elsewhere. You don't like me? Fine. Move it along and get yourself a new hobby.

You might be happy with the changes. Great! Rock on and do your thing. Let those of us who are unhappy discuss it so we can make the admin aware of it.



Marlayna said:


> Anyone with an email address can become a member and view pics that are posted. That was *always* the case.
> If someone doesn't want their child's classmates seeing them, for instance, they shouldn't post them in the first place. jmho.:doh:



My child's classmates are eight. If they're looking at sites like this, my pictures being on them aren't the issue. 

Again, I won't speak for others. I'm not naive or stupid, like you're implying, so I knew how many people could potentially see photos I posted. I know that people I know IRL may have seen them. You're missing the point. Again.


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## Marlayna (Feb 9, 2015)

Looks like I have to disagree with you again. I don't "drool" over paysite models, but I do compliment some of them on their pictures, and they appreciate it.
I'm straight and I have a husband who loves me... a lot... and often. :eat2:


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## CleverBomb (Feb 9, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> Knowing I was overlooking some substantial parts of it, that was really my point, to generate some creativity with respect to what are some possible alternatives.
> 
> I can' really speak for anyone else, but I'm inclined to assume that was just more directed at the overall tone of how some people were expressing their frustration. Particularly in light of how this thread's so far been allowed to proceed.


That could well be the case -- I don't think that blurring the pre/post change distinction was the purpose (honestly, I'm pretty sure that it wasn't thought out in that much depth).


> Then, potentially, one possible solution or part of one would be to just eliminate the need for such a demarcation, dumping the Clubhouse altogether. I mean, if the new policies indeed reflect some conscious shift in direction, how would something like the old Clubhouse (no substantial amount of regular postings for >2 years) even fit into that type of format? Wouldn't it be, almost, _confusing_ to just to leave it standing alone like that?


Yeah. The point at the time was to provide a "perk" for membership, if I recall correctly. It makes some sense to keep it (or something like it, with similar access criteria) around for that purpose, but its legacy content isn't really necessary to make it work. One thing I don't know, not having a sock-puppet account to check, is whether being a "Supporter" is necessary to access any other parts of the forum besides the Clubhouse (or even if it's necessary to access the Clubhouse now, for that matter).


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## CleverBomb (Feb 9, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> a big group of people figured that one out when the big Donna Simpson thing happened and the general public was hitting the site heavily to the point that it was taken down for an entire week. we lost a huge chunk of people then too because they finally realized...people were complaining about privacy on a public site even then. it's weird the ideas people get about who can see in here.


There were other issues with the site being taken offline at that time that were potentially more troubling, regarding the differences between stated site policy and the unstated actual policy.

A related issue involved a post moved out of a protected forum without notice, demonstrating that there were unstated rules that trumped official policy.


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## RubyRipples (Feb 9, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> there was banning from the old defunct ssbbw forum without any cause at all. a lot of people who were ssbbws didn't even know it existed. people had to be invited. and often they were questioned a lot as well. a lot of women who were ssbbw were never invited at all. then people wondered why with this secret forum there were hardly any visible ssbbws at all.



As a member of that forum I don't recall anyone having been banned from it?? Can you tell me who as that sounds very odd!

Also let's clear something up AGAIN. This forum was NEVER by invitation only. Any ssbbw on Dimensions could apply to the Admin/ Mod for that section to be allowed access to it. This has always been the case there. I was certainly never invited, I applied when it was made up as did most of the ssbbws that I knew from the site. Perhaps you could name some or even ONE person who actually was invited? As for people being "questioned a lot" to get access, well I have to laugh at you of all people saying that. Remember Penny? Your good friend on the site? Attractive black bbw... who turned out to be a long time white male FA with a fake account? In order to prevent fakes gaining access, some questions had to be asked, if a person could not be vouched for in some other way. At the time of the area being opened on the forum I well recall a "ssbbw" who regularly posted on the forum that I had always suspected was actually the husband she frequently referred to, and not the woman in the pics. I subsequently found out that most other women I asked felt the same too. Luckily she didn't apply for access. So it was a simple case of doing a few checks, which I think is perfectly sensible. Do you know of any ssbbw who applied and were refused access? I only know of one, as the mods simply didn't know her at all and she had barely any forum posts, but she was subsequently granted access having other people vouch for her. 

Also, it was never a "secret" forum and I'm shocked at you calling it such. It had been fully discussed in advance on the open forum and I know of no "behind the scenes" discussion before it opened up. All information about how to apply for access to it, was also on the open forums. The massively negative reaction of some of the male FAs when it was established (I still have a beyond shocking nasty rant by Stan the Man on screenshot that I got before the mods hastily removed it from the forum), proves that it was never secret. It was "private". ie. somewhere ssbbw could discuss personal care issues for example without FAs prancing in with totally inappropriate wank bank questions and comments. It proved to be very useful in that respect and the women were able to discuss issues they would never have otherwise. Perhaps the reason that some (not those with access) dramatically called it "secret" is because those with access to it were WELL warned by the mods not to discuss anything in it, either on the open forum or with anyone without access. This was simply to keep it comfortable for those contributing to the area. Likewise, any topic or post made in the section which was anything other than only suitable for that area, was immediately removed. Therefore it stopped it being any kind of social area for a select band of ssbbws. It was only what it set out to be and was always open for people to join. Perhaps more recently people didnt know, because like the rest of Dimensions, it had little new content and was stagnant. Also of course having no active chat room to mention it, wouldnt have helped. 

I'm not interested in getting into any kind of discussion about the section, I just wanted to sort out the "secret" nonsense and your other errors.


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## RubyRipples (Feb 9, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> Thank you. You're a very intelligent women.:bow:



........ woman.


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## RubyRipples (Feb 9, 2015)

ThatFatGirl said:


> Just curious, has anyone who has sent a PM to "Admin" ever received a response? I've sent two and nada.



I sent another one yesterday and still no reply. Do you know if there are any mods left even? Maybe one of them could shed some light on who can reply to messages.


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## Marlayna (Feb 9, 2015)

RubyRipples said:


> ........ woman.


Thank you.:blush::happy:


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## RubyRipples (Feb 9, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> Oh, I see. I wasn't privvy to all that. It's too bad, it sounded interesting. A lot of sites must have secret forums that the general population isn't aware of. http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/



See my post above, and don't believe everything people on here tell you. It never was a "secret" forum etc.


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## Saoirse (Feb 9, 2015)

+1 for Superwhatever getting shit wrong again.


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## Marlayna (Feb 9, 2015)

RubyRipples said:


> See my post above, and don't believe everything people on here tell you. It never was a "secret" forum etc.


I've been a member for years, and only recently, because of the dissatisfaction with the new Admin, have I become aware of an exclusive place for larger women to discuss their private issues.
It's an excellent idea to have a forum like that, but is the concern that it won't remain private now that the place has changed hands, or has it been removed?


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## bbwbud (Feb 9, 2015)

I think its time for all of us to take off our clothes, have a group hug and forget about our problems. I know I wouldn't have any problems if we all did that.


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## Marlayna (Feb 9, 2015)

bbwbud said:


> I think its time for all of us to take off our clothes, have a group hug and forget about our problems. I know I wouldn't have any problems if we all did that.


 I assume you mean metaphorically.http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## superodalisque (Feb 9, 2015)

RubyRipples said:


> As a member of that forum I don't recall anyone having been banned from it?? Can you tell me who as that sounds very odd!
> 
> Also let's clear something up AGAIN. This forum was NEVER by invitation only. Any ssbbw on Dimensions could apply to the Admin/ Mod for that section to be allowed access to it. This has always been the case there. I was certainly never invited, I applied when it was made up as did most of the ssbbws that I knew from the site. Perhaps you could name some or even ONE person who actually was invited? As for people being "questioned a lot" to get access, well I have to laugh at you of all people saying that. Remember Penny? Your good friend on the site? Attractive black bbw... who turned out to be a long time white male FA with a fake account? In order to prevent fakes gaining access, some questions had to be asked, if a person could not be vouched for in some other way. At the time of the area being opened on the forum I well recall a "ssbbw" who regularly posted on the forum that I had always suspected was actually the husband she frequently referred to, and not the woman in the pics. I subsequently found out that most other women I asked felt the same too. Luckily she didn't apply for access. So it was a simple case of doing a few checks, which I think is perfectly sensible. Do you know of any ssbbw who applied and were refused access? I only know of one, as the mods simply didn't know her at all and she had barely any forum posts, but she was subsequently granted access having other people vouch for her.
> 
> ...


 
just because you weren't aware doesn't mean it didn't happen. I have emails to prove what I've said but i'm not allowed to post it here as far as I know. if I were I would.


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## superodalisque (Feb 9, 2015)

Saoirse said:


> +1 for Superwhatever getting shit wrong again.


 
and this kind of stuff has a lot to do with it too evidenced by a notable exclusion of such elsewhere.


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## Xyantha Reborn (Feb 9, 2015)

Is it just me or is the "please support Dimensions and keep it online for years to come" announcement getting bigger and bigger in font size? Doesn't bother me, just isn't subtle


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## FreeThinker (Feb 9, 2015)

Xyantha Reborn said:


> Is it just me or is the "please support Dimensions and keep it online for years to come" announcement *getting bigger and bigger* in font size?



Post pics please. We loves us some comparison sets here.


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## Yakatori (Feb 9, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> "_just because you weren't aware doesn't mean it didn't happen..._"


I take you at your word of what happened, how it all probably factors in somehow. But, there are some people who've both come and gone since then. Just as there's no shortage of people who come & go without too much awareness of any of that.

So, any tone of "_I told you so..._" or grasshopper/ant is really not the way to get anyone to see otherwise.



superodalisque said:


> "_...and this kind of stuff has a lot to do with it too evidenced by *a notable exclusion of such elsewhere.*_"


I dunno about that. Where and what-exactly do you really mean?

Like I said, I'm not really active on Facebook, but I do come into contact with & notice a fair amount of Facebook commentary via third-party link to whatever article or content I happen to be viewing. Therein, I see plenty of snark, trolling, or whatever you might want to call it. _Ad hominen_ and other nonsensical types of derailers. And prejudice, of course, of just about every variety that I would even want to think of, laid-bare, proffered up in all earnestness. Yes, a fair amount from what are presumably fake accounts. Although, in my personal experience, far from all. Or even most.

That is, I see lots & lots of perfect vile-enough comments from people accompanied by what's (presumably) not only their own personal picture (shot of face without hat or sunglasses) but also information on their place of work or business, where they went/go to school, etc...

Contrast this with Reddit where, frankly, the worst of it just seems to be some stupid puns. 

I mean, maybe it has something to do with the user-base. Like Reddit hasn't quite yet sufficiently caught-on? Or that the age/demographics of the type of person who would abuse Reddits' freedoms tends to stick with something like 4chan (or whatever's the "_new-thing_" kids happen to be into these days)? Or the voting....that effectively seems to hide the worst (comments) buried on what most people seem to agree are the best? I dunno

But, either way, it seem like, here, you have this very particular idea or concept or working-theory in mind (which, fairly, I leave to you in order to better articulate/refine) and, based on most of what you see, it's all just the same patterns which tend to reinforce or prove that particular line of thinking. Again and again. So, even if not the worst possible danger, it's sort of a challenge here, for any like-minded person, not for it all to just come across like you're simply foisting this particular agenda or cause onto whatever problem or issue that most immediately comes along.


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## superodalisque (Feb 9, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> I take you at your word of what happened, how it all probably factors in somehow. But, there are some people who've both come and gone since then. Just as there's no shortage of people who come & go without too much awareness of any of that.
> 
> So, any tone of "_I told you so..._" or grasshopper/ant is really not the way to get anyone to see otherwise.
> 
> ...


 

it's not so much as I told you so to misplaced aggression toward an admin no one has given a chance yet and blaming them for an exodus that was already happening. 

of course there is snark everywhere especially where it's open to all comers but not absolutely everywhere. places that are generally constructive exploratory and tolerant you have to be invited to. people who can't ever put whatever personal grudges aside long enough for something constructive to happen just because people disagree get excluded. when you visit places like that the same group of people who can't ever seem to manage without it are always purposefully missing for a reason.


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## Yakatori (Feb 10, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> "_Everyone knows..I don't see where the whole tone of the place is..._"


It might be that you're not seeing it for how much you're already familiar with the other parts of the site. That you're not really looking at it from the p.o.v. of a new or unfamiliar user who's *first* seeing that most of the updates are to the Paysite section. And how all of the those updates come up *first* before any of the other sections. So, in a certain sense, a significant part of the new content is actually buried under another contrasting type of content, giving the impression that the site is all or primarily about the former. Which, kind of, exacerbates the whole dynamic.



superodalisque said:


> "_...things that were arbitrary before were fine, but not so much now though it seems._"


I think a lot of it just distills down to transparency or lack thereof. The previous admin was something more than just a highly visible presence, both on & off the board, with lots and lots of long-term, on-going report with (pretty-much, it seems) everyone in SA. And not that anyone should feel like they have to fill those particular shoes, but I think it's important to just recognize how it effects the way anyone look at things. 

e.g., a mod makes a call that I feel is unfair, biased against me or someone else I like, or otherwise capricious, my immediate reaction might be something like "Well, _Sifu_ trusts this person implicitly; so, what I am going to do, complain? Be a complain*er*?" Whereas, not really knowing as much about who's making whatever calls, it becomes that much more difficult to project one's own ideas and motivations onto whatever results. 

Like, notice how you keep hearing people bring up the lack of response to emails, ect... It's less about the result, per se, than just this unknowing sense about whether or not you're even being heard. This is why, in certain business-cultures, contexts, etc...you see advertising crafted around this whole concept & narrative of a President or frontman.


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## superodalisque (Feb 10, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> It might be that you're not seeing it for how much you're already familiar with the other parts of the site. That you're not really looking at it from the p.o.v. of a new or unfamiliar user who's *first* seeing that most of the updates are to the Paysite section. And how all of the those updates come up *first* before any of the other sections. So, in a certain sense, a significant part of the new content is actually buried under another contrasting type of content, giving the impression that the site is all or primarily about the former. Which, kind of, exacerbates the whole dynamic.
> 
> I think a lot of it just distills down to transparency or lack thereof. The previous admin was something more than just a highly visible presence, both on & off the board, with lots and lots of long-term, on-going report with (pretty-much, it seems) everyone in SA. And not that anyone should feel like they have to fill those particular shoes, but I think it's important to just recognize how it effects the way anyone look at things.
> 
> ...


 

if it's arbitrary I don't think it matters much if you can see it or not. and actually if it can be discussed without personalities attached it's probably better.


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## supersizebbw (Feb 10, 2015)

Xyantha Reborn said:


> Is it just me or is the "please support Dimensions and keep it online for years to come" announcement getting bigger and bigger in font size? Doesn't bother me, just isn't subtle



I agree, it's definitely in bigger and bolder font....I also don't have a problem with it, my only issue is that with all the changes it is not the same ol' "Dimensions" that we all once knew IMHO.


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## bbwbud (Feb 10, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> I assume you mean metaphorically.


 

Well, I will also take literally if you are willing, Marlayna.. From the way you describe yourself, you sound very attractive.


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## Marlayna (Feb 10, 2015)

musicman said:


> Exactly right! A little bit of communication beforehand can prevent a lot of aggravation later, like that exhibited in the "Anonymous Rep" thread (which the Admin just closed after castigating the members for posting negative comments.) I don't know why communication is such a hard concept for people to grasp. If the Admin doesn't want to announce changes, perhaps he could deputize one of the mods to do it?


After these posts, is where the OP's discussion got totally de-railed. 
People were used to the way Conrad ran things, and we felt more leadership at the helm. The site's new owner, may have no interest in our interests, other than the $$$ it would generate...hence, the lack of communication on his part.
As "Changes" go, a hands-on Admin may tell us about them in advance, but a non-hands on owner would not. We felt Conrad cared, and we feel Mister XXX does not. 
(When I say "we", I mean me, so don't you sticklers bust my balls, ok?)
Please carry on the discussion in this vein. Some good posters have left, and I assumed it was a boycott. If they were banned, that's not good.
Personally, if the ship is going down, I'll go down with it. This is the internet, and shit happens. Keep hope alive, and please try to stay on topic.http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## Marlayna (Feb 10, 2015)

bbwbud said:


> Well, I will also take literally if you are willing, Marlayna.. From the way you describe yourself, you sound very attractive.


Oh, you sweet talker.:batting::batting:
However, we need to get serious here, because some people have serious questions. Now, straighten up, zip up, and stay away from evil women.

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## bbwbud (Feb 10, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> Oh, you sweet talker.:batting::batting:
> However, we need to get serious here, because some people have serious questions. Now, straighten up, zip up, and stay away from evil women.


 

Walking away, but it's difficult to zip up when you've already pitched all your clothes...Well, some other time perhaps..


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## Marlayna (Feb 10, 2015)

supersizebbw said:


> I agree, it's definitely in bigger and bolder font....I also don't have a problem with it, my only issue is that with all the changes it is not the same ol' "Dimensions" that we all once knew IMHO.


Maybe not, but it's still here. It is what you make it and one has to go with the flow, even if it's not been exactly what we were used to.


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## Marlayna (Feb 10, 2015)

bbwbud said:


> Walking away, but it's difficult to zip up when you've already pitched all your clothes...Well, some other time perhaps..


LOL! Yes, another place, another time.  ...But thank you for the laugh.

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## liz (di-va) (Feb 10, 2015)

tonynyc said:


> not only is the site free and it is true that the new owners can pretty much make any "changes"-but, there are ramifications to what is done.


The new owners don't buy the site/software though, quite, they buy _people_ - users. Traffic. _Us_. As such -- I mean, it's _always_ -- totally normal/fine for users to want to know what the rules/new rules are in a place to make decisions on their participation. For users to make their own estimations and decisions about involvement based on what information they are getting (or if they're getting any at all). As Yakatori said: transparency. 

This place has been confused in its goals for quite a while since _before_ the new owners, which I'd say is contributing to more confusion now, but either way: the site has gotta decide/be clear what it's about. Nothing wrong with that - every site does. In 2015, years after Dimensions was the place it was because it was the only fat game in town, it seems pretty crucial.


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## Yakatori (Feb 11, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> "_..now that things are changing *people want to blame the new admin* etc... but the truth is...it didn't take a new admin for that to happen._"





superodalisque said:


> "_...*misplaced aggression toward an admin *no one has given a chance yet and *blaming them* for an exodus that was already happening..._"


I get where you're coming from, seeing this in the overall tone of some of what some people are saying. However, I also think there's a bit more to it than just this. I mean, I think, it's all really more directed at specific changes than anyone personally who just happens to be at the helm at that particular point in time.

When you're the head of something, a decision-maker, people are just naturally going to address their concerns to you directly. You know, like the way people bring it to Obama over things like drone strikes (as if he's, like, sitting there, joystick-in-hand) or Guantanamo. 



superodalisque said:


> "_...so what do you end up having? *a watered down fat porn site where it's the same old website come on as everywhere else where potential paying members are? how unique or marketable is that really? *the stuff that made it unique interesting and different have been smothered and forced out. they asked for it and they got it._"


Yeah. Which just begs the question of how, if any of this, is actually directed by actual financial interests, a clear path towards making actual money. Versus, perhaps, just simple oversight. Experimentation, etc...

Were that more clearly, demonstrably the case, then I would assume a lot fewer people would object to either this or that. They would, then, be more accepting of just about anything as part of the inevitable costs of running or having access to something like this.



superodalisque said:


> "_...if it's *arbitrary* I don't think it matters much if you can see it or not. and actually if it can be discussed without personalities attached it's probably better._"


You keep throwing that word out there, but I'm not so sure if it can apply to too much here. Personally, I really hesitate to use that to describe anything I feel I don't really understand so well, where I'm on the outside looking-in.

I tend to doubt that any particular decision or course of action, by either this or past Admin or mods, was truly, actually, _arbitrary_...as it might've seemed to some at the time.


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## superodalisque (Feb 11, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> I get where you're coming from, seeing this in the overall tone of some of what some people are saying. However, I also think there's a bit more to it than just this. I mean, I think, it's all really more directed at specific changes than anyone personally who just happens to be at the helm at that particular point in time.
> 
> When you're the head of something, a decision-maker, people are just naturally going to address their concerns to you directly. You know, like the way people bring it to Obama over things like drone strikes (as if he's, like, sitting there, joystick-in-hand) or Guantanamo.
> 
> ...


 
no doubt a decision may not have seemed arbitrary to them at the time but nevertheless it is when it doesn't fit with the perimeters they themselves set out beforehand.

have you ever thought that even some mods might not have actually cared for what was going down either? 

sometimes it helps to hold your head up, step back and look around and check out the landscape re: who is here and who is not.


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## Yakatori (Feb 11, 2015)

penguin said:


> "_The tone has changed....Sure, change happens, it's a part of life. But when your favourite Friday night hangout suddenly changes...it's unnerving...This isn't about "lol, change happens, suck it up or shut up." It's about taking an established community and forcing it to become something else. The tone changes. The expectation changes. We're allowed to be unhappy about it, and it doesn't mean we need to "get a life" (which is a horribly condescending and arrogant attitude)._"


Were this Aussie parliament, I would support this like a proper back-bencher (Laura Smyth, Federal Membah - La Trobe); so maybe a low, dignified, _but-not-so-low-you-cant-definitely-tell-its-me_ _here, *here!*_ Punctuated with some appropriately-timed nods indicating our mutual disapproval of the thing spoken-out against. And lots of furrowed brow and other serious-owl type facial expressions.



Marlayna said:


> "_The "eyeroll" was for the long (not so great) analogy about how this message board is like a bar that got too sleazy for your tastes. _"


Heres hoping you wont mind yet another: 



CleverBomb said:


> "_the old rules meant that visitors seeking graphic nudity would quickly move on to sites where that was available, because it wasn't available on this site as such. It was a subtle screen, but it had a noticeable effect -- it felt, and to some extent actually was, a "safer" conversational space than at sites with more permissive content policies._"



See, put this way, and also as others (who would most likely prefer to stay out of this altogether) have often described it, it just really seems like several very distinct sites or groups of consumers/customers all merged into one. For the sake of simple economy. 

So, the brick & mortar type of example that comes to my mind is necessarily that of.a hotel, not necessarily a particularly fancy one, but more like the middling type of what you often find near the airport. Like, its not that-good, because it doesnt really have to be; its near the airport, that pretty much, by itself, serves its most basic function. But, then again, its not that bad becauseits a hotel. And not a mo-tel.

As such, theres also a restaurant. Because, practically-speaking, any decent sized hotel pretty much has to have one. So, that can go in (at least) two different ways: Generally (lots of broad generalizations here, but just bear with me, just having a bit of fun here) the restaurant is either very good; like, better than you wouldve expected, just because youve been to your share of hotels just like this one and, on the balance, the attached-restaurants are typically not-so-good. Or, kind of, more in-line with what you were expecting, the restaurant is basically crappy. I mean, it can be any of a number of things that actually make it crappy; food, service, value, closes too early....opens too latedoesnt really matter. But, the point is, the restaurant is not really a destination unto itself. Outside of, maybe, a select group of people. And thats only, like, when its particularly, uncanningly good.

And then (just rounding out here), theres, like, a bar. But its not just a bar like youd expect to see in any restaurant. (In fact, extending the metaphor, the restaurant-itself has its own physical-bar that drinks are served out of when the restaurant-itself is actually in service; but thats not really a bar anyone would just sit-at and drink. Unless they were, in theory, waiting for a table or the rest of their party. But, obviously that never happens here because the restaurant is not that busy; theres always plenty of tables and, there, people always/only show up as complete parties). Its more like a night-club, singles-club, etc 

But. Its not, like, the type of club you might see on Ocean Drive/Collins in Miami, okay? And its not, like, the _Limelight_. Or what you might expect to see in some of the bigger casinos out in Vegas. Thats not really. Its not even, really, trying to be like those places. This place, the type of place this is., theres no pretense.

Or maybe theres just a little: I mean, yeah, there are some very young 20-something modely types with foreign accents as well as some young-money type thugs, who would just be par for the course in any of those other spots. But here, those people really stand out, and as much for how much everyone else-taken individually does as well.

Its just a very mixed bag. Like, there are very cliché divorced guys in vettes and comb-overs; as, inevitably, some of their ex-wives as well. There are mechanics and guys who own gas stations; who, certainly, LIKE the smell of their own cologne. (Liberally splashed over a good amount of body-hair) And that wear a bit of gold, whose general enthusiasm & speech volume more than effectively compensates for whatever lapse in syntax. (Those guys all drive older _Benzes_, with good speakers, the better which to broadcast their respective mating signals. And, by way of magnetization or ready-applied adhesive, decorated with whatever applicable or otherwise-appropriate religious imagery or symbols; although, tonight, they are most certainly on a mission of another kind!) As there are 40 year old virgins. And people who use wheelchairs. (More than just one, who dont even know each other) Dancing with others who dont. And little old ladies who just want a drink with an umbrella. People on vacation, who otherwise wouldnt dare.

So, too, there are, obviously, *obviously*, people of all shapes & sizes, across substantial ranges in age or whatever other demographics, all unified in their participation in a kind of masquerade; hiding, perhaps, from the circles from which theyre most ordinarily known..in order to *cheat*, somehow. Just as theyre solidly married couples, whore friendly enough, and just people-watching, being social. As there are actual-swingers, wannabes, & some couples whore like something out of cartoon. If Steven King wrote it. (Or, perhaps, Edward Albee) There are people whore, however temporarily, just trying to get-through something, like a break-up or loss of some sort. Or, possibly, reconnect with something, even if just one more time, as it inevitably fades; as all things eventually do. As there are those who dont yet have even a clue of how difficult things are about to become. 

And so, the people from the hotel, all travelers in their own right, as well; they, naturally, walk into all of this with a feeling of being, kind of, nonplussed. Like, _wtf is this? Who are these people? And why are they all here? What are they even.doing here?_

That is, maybe, the first time. Or the second. But, maybe, on a yet another trip, they wrangle a friend or co-worker to just _Hey, check this outyou will not believe this place. I mean, I cant really describe it; you just have to see it for yourself. Its just out of this world._ And then, maybe, through this surreal type of experience, they somehow decide for themselves to just merge into this thing, for however long it lasts, to actually feel its energy, to somehow be a part of it. To just experience it, even if on its own terms.

Or, they dont. 

So, instead, in lieu of that; they just, you know, drink too much and throw up all over one of the sub-woofers. Or they smash a glass right onto the middle of the dance floor. Or they get really pissed off because not everyone (not every single guy in the place, not every last swinging dick) agrees that shes the very _fairest of them all_. And so, just keys all of the cars in that same row as one she thinks brought the others. Except, as it so happens to turn out, its actually my car that gets keyed.

My innocent, (not perfect!) but _certainly-special-in-its-own-right_ car that never really hurt anyone.


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## EMH1701 (Feb 11, 2015)

There is a thread in the lounge that I cannot go past page 387 on, yet it clearly has over that many pages. Even switching browsers, and clearing my cache, I can't view past page 387. Please fix that. Thanks.


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## Saoirse (Feb 11, 2015)

EMH1701 said:


> There is a thread in the lounge that I cannot go past page 387 on, yet it clearly has over that many pages. Please fix that. Thanks.



Ive noticed the same thing on multiple threads. Super weird.


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## RubyRipples (Feb 12, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> I've been a member for years, and only recently, because of the dissatisfaction with the new Admin, have I become aware of an exclusive place for larger women to discuss their private issues.
> It's an excellent idea to have a forum like that, but is the concern that it won't remain private now that the place has changed hands, or has it been removed?



Before I lost access to my real account there was some concern about the fact that the site owner clearly has acccess to the entire site and we don't actually know who the new site owner is but he will have full access. I don't think there was a lot of concern that the section would become "public" as such.

However as I havent had access to my "real" account for weeks and still haven't had any response from admin about it despite several messages to them in a week, I don't know if the area still exists, sorry.


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## Xyantha Reborn (Feb 12, 2015)

I got used to things changing without my permission with facebook and game forum sites; but then I don't pay for it so my irritation is lower. I think that if the site owners are asking for and receiving money to "support" dimensions, they need to be aware that the people coming here will go from "consumers" to "customers", if you take my meaning. If people are paying for what they deem to be a service, they are going to be bound and determined to give suggestions and receive acknowledgement. With the incredibly cheap price of forums and cloud storage, I hope that they will realize that people become much more opinionated, polarized, and likely to leave for the next best thing when committing money. What I mean is - it may sensitize people further.


Beyond that, and using Yakatori's example of a car...although the changes have been unsettling, this forum is really only a matter of conveyance to get to the people here. And there are still many people here who I like and respect...so I still come. Plus the story section.


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## FreeThinker (Feb 12, 2015)

Xyantha Reborn said:


> I think that if the site owners are asking for and receiving money to "support" dimensions, they need to be aware that the people coming here will go from "consumers" to "customers", if you take my meaning.



As this is a forum in which one may participate at no cost, and as we are certain that it is a business venture, which needs vendor, product, and customer, it stands to reason that we who post are neither the customer nor the consumer, but the product.

Someone's paying, someone's getting paid.

We are pageviews, and advertisers will pay a forum administrator (or Webmaster) for that.

I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing, but it is what it is. Which is what it was.


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## Xyantha Reborn (Feb 12, 2015)

Agreed...but if the goal of the owner is revenue only, the "culture" can change. The below are 'devils advocate' arguments, NOT intended to be my opinion, and are written that way because I've seen those questions rear up before, and they invoke a strong emotional fight response.

Right now there are no advertisements, only people paying. If I paid, do I have more of a right to dictate where dimensions is 'headed'? More than someone who hasn't paid but has contributed only via posting since the very beginning? What if the admins suddenly PMed supporting members only and asked what we wanted, and everyone else could go pound salt? I've seen it happen and it was BRUTAL. 

On the opposite end of the spectrum (still in devils advocate mode), why should I pay for something I obviously have zero control over or input to? And why should I pay when other people don't 'have' to pay for to get the same benefit? If there are advertisements, why should people pay at all?

Donations to a "cause" (support fat friendly community) are different than membership fees, which is almost what it is right now.

I've seen that sort of thing happen, and that is what I am more worried about than any forum merging, text sizes, or silence from admins. I'm afraid there may be a schism caused by the changes within the community itself, which people say has already shifted over the years as old members leave and new ones come online. 

It's a hard concern to vocalize...i hope it makes sense. If not, I'll drop it!

Edit: i realized after this that the paysite could be considered advertising; my brain went lateral...though by that token, the web analytics would be able to show which users see which threads, and the same thing could occur, they may pay more attention to users subscribing yo the advertising.


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## superodalisque (Feb 13, 2015)

Xyantha Reborn said:


> Agreed...but if the goal of the owner is revenue only, the "culture" can change. The below are 'devils advocate' arguments, NOT intended to be my opinion, and are written that way because I've seen those questions rear up before, and they invoke a strong emotional fight response.
> 
> Right now there are no advertisements, only people paying. If I paid, do I have more of a right to dictate where dimensions is 'headed'? More than someone who hasn't paid but has contributed only via posting since the very beginning? What if the admins suddenly PMed supporting members only and asked what we wanted, and everyone else could go pound salt? I've seen it happen and it was BRUTAL.
> 
> ...


 
um there are advertisements. there have been for a long time.


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## Tad (Feb 17, 2015)

superodalisque said:


> um there are advertisements. there have been for a long time.



Where are you seeing them? There on every page for a while, then I stopped seeing any (granted, I'm not usually on the paysite boards--they have banner ads for models since just about forever, those went away with the site-wide advertising, and I'm not sure what is on the paysite boards currently).

FWIW, I'm all for ads on the site, if it keeps it running and accessible.


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## CleverBomb (Feb 17, 2015)

Xyantha Reborn said:


> Edit: i realized after this that the paysite could be considered advertising; my brain went lateral...though by that token, the web analytics would be able to show which users see which threads, and the same thing could occur, they may pay more attention to users subscribing yo the advertising.


I had the vague impression that this was the case for a while -- not necessarily to the point of actually tracking individual users's viewing history, but it did appear to slightly influence moderation decisions on occasion.

And to some extent the paysite boards are advertising. The models/sites provide content (pretty pictures) that draws viewers (who see/click on ads on this site, or now, I suppose, consider subscribing) which pays for the exposure of the advertising (those same pretty pictures _with links to their paysites_).


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## superodalisque (Feb 18, 2015)

Tad said:


> Where are you seeing them? There on every page for a while, then I stopped seeing any (granted, I'm not usually on the paysite boards--they have banner ads for models since just about forever, those went away with the site-wide advertising, and I'm not sure what is on the paysite boards currently).
> 
> FWIW, I'm all for ads on the site, if it keeps it running and accessible.


 

I was seeing them all over too. and I think I saw them as well when I was not signed in viewing dims from another IP. there is also an entire amazon store tab. sometimes I do see an amazon banner. I used to see all kinds od ads on areas where pix had been removed or you could not view them if not signed it. not sure now since i'm not really here all that much. and like you said the paysite adds have ALWAYS been here. so still it's odd to consider this an ad free space.


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## lucca23v2 (Feb 18, 2015)

Did anyone else get a PM about buying a book? Is that something that is happening now? PM's for selling?


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## MattB (Feb 18, 2015)

lucca23v2 said:


> Did anyone else get a PM about buying a book? Is that something that is happening now? PM's for selling?



I didn't get a PM, but was it from a member or from the site itself...??


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## lucca23v2 (Feb 18, 2015)

Matt.. I am not sure.. it seems to have come from a person, but a company could just as well make a fake profile to sell, :shrugs: below is what I was sent..

*Hi!* 
Do you want to have a book which could help you to make another person fall in love with you? Get to know more on the http://love-spells.rnrnh.com


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## MattB (Feb 18, 2015)

I certainly hope it was a one-off spammer...


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## lucca23v2 (Feb 18, 2015)

MattB said:


> I certainly hope it was a one-off spammer...


 

You and me both...


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## EvilPrincess (Feb 18, 2015)

Yup- the book pitch was someone abusing the pm system. Can't remove the pm or retract, but the issue has been squashed .


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## Tad (Feb 18, 2015)

NM, EP got it done more quickly than me (I hadn't seen her post when I posted)


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## EvilPrincess (Feb 18, 2015)

Tad said:


> NM, EP got it done more quickly than me (I hadn't seen her post when I posted)



There were two separate ones. Both have been handled  hope that gets the message out there no spam! 

As for advertisements on Dims... There have not been in a while


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## lucca23v2 (Feb 18, 2015)

thanks EP and Tad!


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## dblbellybhm (Feb 18, 2015)

I did get a PM spam this morning advertising a dating and relationship advice web site. I hope this does not become a regular feature.


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## Tad (Feb 18, 2015)

dblbellybhm said:


> I did get a PM spam this morning advertising a dating and relationship advice web site. I hope this does not become a regular feature.



When someone applies for membership and looks reasonably legitimate, of course they get approved. Some of them will turn out to be spammers--and there has been a spate of them lately. The moderators get rid of them as quickly as we can once they make themselves obvious. Unfortunately there is no good way to stop real people from being obnoxious in this regard. At least, not that I've ever figured out.....if you have a system, please do share it!


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## EvilPrincess (Feb 19, 2015)

As soon as we get them reported we are getting them shut down. Thanks for letting us know.


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## Tad (Feb 19, 2015)

Hey, I can see who gave me rep again! Can others?


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## Xyantha Reborn (Feb 19, 2015)

I never knew how to do it...

But look at your rep bar! You dont NEED any more lolol!!! Isnt it like a drop in the ocean? 

Seriously tho, how does one look at it?


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## Tad (Feb 19, 2015)

user control panel (click on "User CP" on the left side of the second blue menu bar from the top of the page -- just below where it shows what board you are currently on)


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## SoVerySoft (Feb 19, 2015)

Tad said:


> Hey, I can see who gave me rep again! Can others?



Not me....


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## Xyantha Reborn (Feb 19, 2015)

OH! look at that, I can see it!!! Cool! I was too lazy to figure it out before...was mystery rep... :doh:

Oh: as an aside...one change I DO really like is the longer edit time on stories. It makes correcting my errors possible, which prevents me staring at the screen and frothing at the mouth that I posed a grammatical error (not that I notice them all, but when I do it bothers me so much)


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## MattB (Feb 19, 2015)

Tad said:


> Hey, I can see who gave me rep again! Can others?





SoVerySoft said:


> Not me....



FWIW- I had noticed this was back on my UserCP for awhile now.


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## EvilPrincess (Feb 19, 2015)

Not me  sadness


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## supersizebbw (Feb 20, 2015)

Tad said:


> Hey, I can see who gave me rep again! Can others?



Quite afew non-mod users confirmed that they got back the rep giving/viewing function some weeks ago....that was in the other thread on here that got locked and subsequently deleted.


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## Ruby Ripples (Feb 20, 2015)

I'm back! thanks SVS and Tad!


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## CleverBomb (Feb 21, 2015)

Ruby Ripples said:


> I'm back! thanks SVS and Tad!


Congratulations!

Repped SVS, couldn't rep Tad since I got him for something else he'd done recently.


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## lucca23v2 (Feb 21, 2015)

Clever... I got Tad...


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## MattB (Feb 21, 2015)

lucca23v2 said:


> Clever... I got Tad...



Mr. Tad ain't bolded no more...


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## Ruby Ripples (Feb 22, 2015)

Thanks everyone! *feelin the love :wubu: *


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## lucca23v2 (Feb 22, 2015)

I noticed that too. Is Tad no longer a moderator?


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## Yakatori (Feb 22, 2015)

Some clarification on my previous post, in response to some questions & responses I've been getting via PM:

I guess, my the point was & is: in any business where you have all these disparate points of sale, or groups of customers or consumers, each thing, typically, has to sustain its self. Pull its own weight, so to speak, in one form or another.

Like, a restaurant in a hotel is obviously run in such a way as to support the hotel itself, e.g. hours to support the needs of the hotels business as opposed to only consistent with #s of sit-down customers. However, there are also practical limits to which each things function can be extended or compromised towards supporting another without it, essentially, undermining the basic mechanics of either and/or the entire business, e.g. the restaurant necessarily adapts its menu from peak to off-peak hours. 

So, thats why, in the most optimal application of this kind of combination, each specific outlet has just sufficient independence & latitude of the others as to build its own base of customers, to thrive in its own right. e.g. Ideally, any restaurant (or nightclub) in this type of scenario is allocated/budgeted sufficient resources (staff, equipment, advertising, promotions, etc) to develop beyond the scope of just meeting the hotels needs. i.e. Its generally good enough to that people who live downtown or are, maybe, staying at a different hotel/casino might consider it as at least one of a number of potential options. Otherwise, why else would those staying right nearby otherwise limit themselves to it? 



superodalisque said:


> "_um there are advertisements. there have been for a long time._"





CleverBomb said:


> "_...And to some extent the paysite boards are advertising. The models/sites provide content (pretty pictures) that draws viewers (who see/click on ads on this site, or now, I suppose, consider subscribing) which pays for the exposure of the advertising (those same pretty pictures with links to their paysites)._"



There has to be at least some ads. Just to generate some revenue. However, the point is, by featuring ads that are either NSFW or infected with malware, thats going to undermine the entire purpose of having them; since it will, in effect, reduce the overall numbers of people who log in and browse the site & the consistency with which they do so. At least in the longer-term, its sort of like robbing Peter to pay Paul.

And so, from my point of view, the PaySite Sections also present somewhat of a similar problem: That is, theyre both like giant, ongoing, continuously unpaid ads.

Yes, a fair amount of people log in just to catch those updates, as you wouldnt really expect with most ads; ads are generally what people tolerate to get at content, not the content-itself. However, those who log-in most persistently just for that can catch-up pretty quickly. After all, its just a few new pictures every day, day-by-day. And then, just as quickly, theyre on to whatever other site, that they would probably otherwise visit/patronize about as much, if not more*. Also, keep in mind that the newest free content in that section is generally going to be available offsite, for the respective sites being advertised. So, really, for all of the free content that both Paysite folders are providing, its really, ultimately, just directing traffic offsite, to another competing-site. Without, really, any consideration for that?

More so, outside of the range of viewers who would actually consider subscribing to a paysite, how does it really benefit either the models or those partner-sites? That is, with all of the free content Dims Paysite section already provides (and now also more explicit material) why would anyone who isnt already doing so (to get literally ALL of any particular sites new & old content immediately on-demand) even consider paying for what they now get for free? And would otherwise continue-to, even without Dimensions, just by looking a bit harder for it.

Granted, Im a bit out of my depth here; and so I would welcome any web-model or promoter to EL15 otherwise; but I just fail to see how this current set-up really benefits anyone, much less the models themselves. Or their patrons.

After all, to a certain extent, arent the models & Paysite operators are all in competition with each other? They contribute this free content for purpose of ultimately building a market, acquiring new paying customers. However, what is the tipping point at which their collective behavior is actually undermining their own interests? Who is best positioned to, kind of, intervene and say, Okay, this is not quite equitable, its not really helping anyone? 

Thats why I would suggest to eliminate both Paysite folders/sections. And allow models and site-operators to promote only on their respective profile pages. The album, link-display, & friends/wall features, I think, would best help to facilitate this.

First, it would unclutter the forums of old, dated content. Give it a fresher look for new and recurring users alike. 2nd, it would also encourage the return/reintergration of a good number of people whove left over this, who seem to want a cleaner overall façade & more apparent emphasis on community (as more broadly defined) & size-acceptance. 

More so, & precisely for limiting the total amount of free, promotional content, it would (again, I think) actually enhance the real value of the site for both the web-models themselves and off-site operators. Because, the potentially paying customers would have further incentive to actually subscribe for their services. Whereas non-paying/tangentially-interested viewers wouldnt be so much bombarded with it as they would have to hunt & peck, looking from profile to profile. Which ultimate equals more clicks, longer viewing. 

Also, the models that are the most motivated, that want to promote most aggressively, would naturally adapt by posting in the forums themselves. And so, maybe, possibly, that would create more opportunity to for the rest of the community to actually get the know more of them a bit better; and more as fully 3-dimensional human beings, as opposed to just images of parts (as some of us often complain). And better expose them to some of the concerns, standards, etcof the non-model community. And vice-versa. And thereby ultimately facilitate & adapt a newer, better, stronger ethic through which we can all relate to and respect one another just a bit better. 

And, if that seemed to work, then-possibly the people who use the site to promote outside businesses could ultimately be asked to pay a nominal subscription or fee. After all, if you cant get paid by those who actually make money off of the site, it would be that much more difficult to see that out of the more irregular user whos not really here for porn. Much less the people provide the lions share of other such content.

And, most importantly, it would return the overall facade to an appearance more in line with the interests of a much larger demographic, thereby increasing the real value of the entire space, both from an advertising standpoint and otherwise. (i.e. it would be much more comfortable for women in general as opposed to just a club of webmodels and their patrons). That is, even as *Clever* points out about how we can easily _turn down the noise _by "marking as read" the folders we're just not interested in, it's really kind of beside the point. Because the newer users comings in, people returning for a peek in response to an email, are generally not going to just catch-on to that feature. They're generally going to get the idea of this as a virtual strip-club of sorts; and, for that, we can't really blame them.

For example: Just the other day, before "clearing" the Paysite folder as such, I noticed one thread in particular; and I'm not, like, trying to single anyone out here; because I really don't blame the model, per se. After all, without any real concrete, tangible, criteria of what's acceptable or not, what possible reason might she have to even consider how that particular set, the theme contained therein, might just be...a bit beyond margins of what most people on here would consider acceptable. That is, I don't mean, just beyond the scope of their own personal interests; but, like, "_wtf? Are you se*ri*ous?!_" 

As such, I fear, many of us are going to continue to experience such moments in the days, weeks, & months to come. And so, even as much as I both respect and am sincerely grateful towards our new alien overlords; I too am feeling that sense of being jilted. Like, this thing I really, really liked, now has a mind of its own. And, it now seems, has already moved on without me. And, indeed, would just as soon prefer the company of others rather just my own personal, exclusive company....


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## Saoirse (Feb 22, 2015)




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## superodalisque (Feb 24, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> Some clarification on my previous post, in response to some questions & responses I've been getting via PM:
> 
> I guess, my the point was & is: in any business where you have all these disparate points of sale, or groups of customers or consumers, each thing, typically, has to sustain its self. Pull its own weight, so to speak, in one form or another.
> 
> ...


 

what makes you think that a large number of people here don't frequent those kinds of things somewhere else anyway? 

when people were asking for support for a more political site a lot of people either told us to shut up or they stayed quiet even if they agreed. so people got it. that aspect didn't appear to be wanted so they went somewhere else to talk about it. now the site has to meet the demand of what is left. the people here made the environment and the kind of demand it creates. seriously, what else is going to come from the paysite mentality that has driven the ethos of this place and been followed like some kind of voice of reason all of this time often to the exclusion of anything at all realistic or normal? it made itself somewhat irrelevant to people who just wanted to be a beautiful fat person unencumbered by the types of fetishes that enhanced societal stereotypes and negativity and instead live in the real world and having a good time with and feeling good about our bodies no matter what.


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