# Help for snoring/sleep apnea



## bshul

Hi all...this is not spam.
I just bought a device that has stopped snoring and has improved sleep apnea for my friend. 
It is called the Aveo TSD. It is a shaped suction cup that gently holds the tongue in a forward position, while you are asleep. It works for my friend. It is worth checking out. A dentist or doctor needs to order it. His cost is $99 plus tax and shipping ($16).

http://www.greatlakesortho.com/newappliances.php

i'm interested in the typical debate that ensues after a post like this

burt


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## Les Toil

Aside from the fact that this 4 ounces of plastic is over 100 bucks, I just couldn't imagine wedging that thing in your mouth and sticking your tongue through it is gonna give too many people a restful night. But Bshul's friend says otherwise so maybe this piece of plastic is worth every penny.:eat1:


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## ChickletsBBW

umm.. yeah.. i don't see anything like that going in my mouth would help make me sleep except maybe a big *sensored* lol but anyway...


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## herin

ChickletsBBW said:


> umm.. yeah.. i don't see anything like that going in my mouth would help make me sleep except maybe a big *sensored* lol but anyway...



Heck yeah! Just what I was thinking. Great minds think alike, huh?


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## xoxoshelby

Okay, I have the strangest question...what position does everyone sleep in? I can not get comfortable at night and I guess it still bothers me once I finally fall asleep because I wake up in weird positions on the floor LOL. I know I'm not falling out of bed because I have all of my blankets with me and I'm pretty sure it's not like a sleep walking thing. I just can't get comfortable and it takes me forever to fall asleep unless I'm exhausted. I own a bed, I would really like to spend a whole night in it! HELP!!


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## Airling

I get into a place where my body feels fine but my head doesn't and then turn my head to the other side, and adjust the body so my neck isn't stretched.

Then I'm great.

Except for now, with all the caffeine and all...


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## AnnMarie

I'm a side sleeper. One side, then the other, allllll night long. 

I usually make it about 2-3 hours on one side, then move to the other, then it's a bit more frequent during my last few hours of sleep, maybe every 30 mins to an hour. 

I can't sleep on my back without it hurting my back (too much butt so my back is arched while I'm laying flat) and I'm only comfy on my stomach if I put one leg out to the side and my arms to the side or up... they fall asleep and that's the end of that one.


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## EvilPrincess

side sleeper here too, and I rustle back and forth during the night, I also add about 6 pillows tucked under different parts of my back, belly, butt, and shoulders... seems to take off the pressure points, my favorite pillow of all time is "The Hunk" from JC Penney, the perfect support for my big bod


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## Fuzzy

I can sleep anywhere, on anything, at anytime. Which scares me. I once fell asleep during a metal band concert. When I get drowsy on the road, I pull off and do something to wake me up, or find a quiet off-the-road place where I can grab a catnap. I haven't had a asleep-at-the-wheel incident yet.

(The funny thing is, I can't sleep with wrinkled sheets)

Anyway, I'm a all-positions sleeper that has never suffered from insomnia (knock-on-wood). But one thing I've been taught from my Mother is to only use the bedroom for sleeping. No TV. No late night reading. No eating. (Okay, okay, sex is okay)..


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## eightyseven

I'm naturally a back sleeper... however I've been working on sleeping on my sides because of allergies (and just living in a college dorm... to say the air quality is lacking is the understatement of the century). Sometimes though, I wake up on my belly. Go figure.


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## TheSadeianLinguist

Tosser and turner here.


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## Red

Face down...chewing the pillow...quite happily dribbling away. God knows how I actually breathe


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## AnnMarie

Fuzzy said:


> Anyway, I'm a all-positions sleeper that has never suffered from insomnia (knock-on-wood). But one thing I've been taught from my Mother is to only use the bedroom for sleeping. No TV. No late night reading. No eating. (Okay, okay, sex is okay)..



I'm pretty bad with that, I have a TV in my room and I watch it every single night when I go to sleep. Usually fall asleep with it on - deliberately - and then wake up a couple of hours later and turn it off. 

I can fall asleep without it, but I am getting more and more on the "prefer it" side of things. I should probably stop soon - although, there's no one here to complain about it, so who really cares??!! lol


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## sweetnnekked

I sleep with a c-pap machine so it's best to get comfy in one position right away otherwise I'm fuckin' around with the headpiece all night. 
I like to sleep on my right side but I've got a bum right knee that aches horrifically when I do so now I sleep on my left. I'd prefer to sleep on my tummy but the headgear prohibits that. My doc said I should sleep on my back but that always makes me feel as though I'm choking so, definitely left side.


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## eightyseven

AnnMarie said:


> I'm pretty bad with that, I have a TV in my room and I watch it every single night when I go to sleep. Usually fall asleep with it on - deliberately - and then wake up a couple of hours later and turn it off.
> 
> I can fall asleep without it, but I am getting more and more on the "prefer it" side of things. I should probably stop soon - although, there's no one here to complain about it, so who really cares??!! lol



Hehe, I'm the SAME way with the TV... my roommate doesn't really like it... but whatever, we get along too well to quarrel over something petty like that. I what I really wanted to say is that I'd probably sleep best while cuddling with AnnMarie


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## MisticalMisty

I'm a tosser and a turner too..I start on my right side..and end up on my belly or right side...I wrestle with my sheets every morning because the fitted sheet comes off from tossing.

God, I love to sleep..I think I'll go take a nap right now


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## extra_fat_guy

I also use a c-pap machine, so I sleep on my back. If I don't the mask moves around and I wake up.


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## Carol W.

I have "mild" sleep apnea which kicks in if I don't have enough pillows under my head or if I try to sleep flat on my back. I also have painful arthritis in most of my body and my former fav position-on my right side-no longer works either. 

I have three regular pillows under my head, I get into a flat-back position, and then turn about 45 degrees onto my right side. My left arm is supported by two pillows next to my left side. It takes a minute to get my legs comfy but once I am into position, (and after I've pulled the covers over my ears and up around my chin) I generally sleep like the dead! I don't move at all in my sleep so I'm pretty cramped when I first wake up. I have to slowly stretch to get things going before I swing up and out the right side of the bed. 

Stress is something I have to really watch. Since 1998, if I get overstressed, I cannot fall asleep at ALL. This is one major factor in my choosing an early retirement back in 2000. And it did help. I'd say over 95% of the time I get really excellent sleep, and oh, it's wonderful. 

By the by, when I was diagnosed with sleep difficulties in '98, I weighed about 330-340. Last year I was up to almost 440, and now, am about 370. These weight fluctuations did not worsen-nor, for that matter, improve my quality of sleep. I did try the C-Pap for awhile but REALLY, really hated it. I'm lucky that some adjustments and experimentation improved things without the machine. Oh-and I always take two Ibuprofen just before bed. It helps keep the arthritis pain at a manageable level throughout the night.


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## Zandoz

I have a very difficult time finding a comfortable position, though in general terms, it is usually alternating sides. But there is a strange phenominon I've noticed...if I can fall sound asleep on my back, that is when I sleep in one position the longest.


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## ChickletsBBW

Red said:


> Face down...chewing the pillow...quite happily dribbling away. God knows how I actually breathe



haha.. ok.. you're not alone.. sometimes i wake up w/ my face in the pillow and i wonder how i survived the night w/o smothering myself lol

but i sleep on my tummy.. can't fall asleep any other way


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## RedHead

I sleep generally on my side...being spooned by Tom Selleck. My other position is I sleep with my head on his chest and my leg thrown over both of his...basically I sleep almost on top of him 

Between me and the cat...he say's he always feels "squished"...but he secretly likes it; cause when I move, he always say's "Where are you going? Come back and cuddle!":wubu: :wubu:


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## herin

I'm up about every hour (small bladder, ya I know, too much information) so I change positions all night. Drives people crazy! My favorite is on my left side with my boyfriend cuddling up behind me. :wubu: He rubs my tummy in his sleep. It's revoltingly sweet.


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## Emma

I dunno how I sleep. I'm lucky if I wake up not in a pile of sick.


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## Blackjack_Jeeves

Well I toss and turn a lot too... I'll start the night on my sides, switching here and there... but almost always I will end up on my back right before I sleep. After that it's anyone's guess. So mostly, I guess I'm officially on my back. Some nights I'll lay on my stomach and really curl up to the pillow, but it doesn't happen often. I'm lucky to have a wonderful pillow. My parents got one of them new "Temperpedic" beds (I think it's called that) but they don't like using the pillows that came with it, which were basically the same material... so I use that pillow and it's so wonderfully soft and provides plenty of support for my neck... Ahhhh.... almost feels like naptime now... 

EDITED - 101 Dalmations! I mean Posts!!! I'm moving up in the world!


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## bigcutiekaroline

I am a side sleeper too! a couple of pillows to help even out the hip shoulder head ratio...lol...adn one to hug to hold up the ...ahem.....tatas..... and I am good to go! I alternate during the night...one side then the other. The back ...forget it...to much bum there....belly...forget it...to much belly there...lol!


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## Fuzzy

All this talk about pillows reminds me of the body pillow my ex used for comfort and support during her pregnancies.

http://www.inspiredliving.com/body-pillows/


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## xoxoshelby

Seems like I need to invest in some more pillows. Everyone else has pillows shoved everywhere. I usually start on my side with my arm up under my head & pillow, but it falls asleep fast. Can't do my back because my right leg falls asleep and it drives me crazy. I even have some lunesta, but that doesn't keep my asleep all night so I rarely take it. I think I'm doomed to be tossing and turning all night.


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## saucywench

Fuzzy said:


> I can sleep anywhere, on anything, at anytime. Which scares me. I once fell asleep during a metal band concert. When I get drowsy on the road, I pull off and do something to wake me up, or find a quiet off-the-road place where I can grab a catnap. I haven't had a asleep-at-the-wheel incident yet...


Fuzzy, I can't help but be a little alarmed by this. See my thread on sleep apnea. Is your doctor aware of this? It's really nothing to dismiss casually. I would say that I hate to sound like a broken record about this issue, but, because of my bugging some friends and acquaintances over and over about getting a sleep study performed, I feel I have been helpful in getting them the medical treatment that they so desperately needed. The sleep "habits" that you have had for so long may seem natural to you by now, but to me they seem like anything but.

I really want to hear from you about this. If you haven't sought medical attention for this problem, I _*strongly*_ encourage you to do so. Every single person that I have nagged about this has come back to thank me for it. You will be amazed at the difference in quality of life that a CPAP machine (or other treatments for sleep apnea, I would imagine) can make. Of course, if you _have_ told your doctor and that is not the problem, I want to know that, as well.


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## Fuzzy

Well, no. I haven't talked to my Doctor about it. I just didn't think of it as a huge problem. Maybe it is.


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## saucywench

Fuzzy said:


> Well, no. I haven't talked to my Doctor about it. I just didn't think of it as a huge problem. Maybe it is.


Make an appointment. Now. (OK, you can wait until Monday.)


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## Littleghost

AnnMarie said:


> I'm a side sleeper. One side, then the other, allllll night long.


DITTO. Plus, I have a habit of a quasi-fetal postion. I try once in awhile to sleep otherwise, but it's so dang comfy! Go figure.

Gotta order one a them "bbw pillows" to hang onto at night,
--Littleghost


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## loves2laugh

well i went to the doctor today because my mom said she heard me snoring and then gasping for breath when i was sleeping. the doctor said so far it sounds like typical sleep apnea but i have to be evaluated by a pulmonary doctor who specializes in sleep disorders.
anybody been through this?


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## swordchick

I have...My doctor had me do a sleep study first, from that, I was diagnosed with having sleep apnea and received a CPAP. After a few weeks, I went to a pulmonary doctor.


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## sweetnnekked

loves2laugh said:


> well i went to the doctor today because my mom said she heard me snoring and then gasping for breath when i was sleeping. the doctor said so far it sounds like typical sleep apnea but i have to be evaluated by a pulmonary doctor who specializes in sleep disorders.
> anybody been through this?


I have sleep apnea and it's not really as bad as everyone thinks!
First you'll go for a sleep disorders test. They'll connect all kinds of wires to you to moniter your sleeping habits. I actually found that to be the worst part because you have to basically sleep without moving. Who the hell can do that? But luckily, it only takes one night.
Then they'll probably provide you with a c-pap or bi-pap machine. 
This machine opens your lungs by forcing highly compressed air into them. You have to wear a mask strapped to your face but get used to it quickly. I've had mine for five years now and would never sleep without it. I even take it when I travel.
I have never slept better in my entire life than when I've had my bi-pap. 
And people always used to complain about my incessant snoring but with my machine, I haven't snored in those past five years!!!

http://www.sleepapnea.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipap


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## Zandoz

I have sleep apnea...bad. I'm rather surprised that the doc is sending you to a pulmonary specialist before a sleep study...it seems generally the study is the first step. Regardless, do not put off getting checked out...I found out in a very hard way that it can kill you if left untreated. I had let it go so far that a few hours into the first night of a two night sleep study, the study technician woke me and immediately put me on a CPAP, because they were afraid I was going to kick off there in their lab.


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## toni

Well because the health system is set up as it is, you have to see a plethora of doctors before you get anything done. Her primary doctor has to refer her to the pulomonary doctor who then refers her for a sleep study. 

I had one done, it was a rough night. They couldn't get the sensors working right. The technician woke me up every 30 minutes. I really do not see how they diagnoised me with sleep apnea, they really couldnt have had to much info to go on. Oh well, I was bad, I never went back for the follow up night to have the cpap fit:doh: . I have spoken with a few people that sleep with a cpap, they say they have never felt better.


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## Zandoz

toni said:


> I have spoken with a few people that sleep with a cpap, they say they have never felt better.



They are pretty intimidating at first, and it frequently take some experimentation to find the type of headgear right for each individual, but once set up right it's amazing the difference it makes. I will not even lay down for a power nap without using mine. If we go anywhere there is even the remotest chance of having to spend the night, my "machine" gets to go bye-bye with us.

The morning of my 1st sleep study, I was so out of it from sleep deprivation that I could not have backed the car out of the driveway safely...after one night on the CPAP, I drove the 2+ hours home.


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## Emma

Zandoz said:


> I have sleep apnea...bad. I'm rather surprised that the doc is sending you to a pulmonary specialist before a sleep study...it seems generally the study is the first step. Regardless, do not put off getting checked out...I found out in a very hard way that it can kill you if left untreated. I had let it go so far that a few hours into the first night of a two night sleep study, the study technician woke me and immediately put me on a CPAP, because they were afraid I was going to kick off there in their lab.



How do you know if you've got it if no one sleeps in the same room with you?


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## TheSadeianLinguist

Sometimes people who report poor sleep patterns are suspected to have sleep apnea.


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## loves2laugh

CurvyEm said:


> How do you know if you've got it if no one sleeps in the same room with you?




hey em!!!!
evidently getting up a lot in the middle of the night may be a sign of something wrong- i have never slept through the night so i just never thought about it. honestly i thought i was just a night person! hahahahha if i didnt happen to just fall asleep so early- i took an ambien when i got home from work- i would never have known or thought about sleep apnea.


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## loves2laugh

thanks so much for all your replies everyone- i really appreciate it


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## Theatrmuse/Kara

Yeppers.......I have sleep apnea and use a CPAP machine. Don't worry, you will feel soooooo much better once you start your CPAP usage. I felt years younger and had much more energy.

AND not only us fatties get sleep apnea.....my sister is a petite 38 year old....maybe weighs 120 and she has it also and uses a CPAP at night! (Just thought you'd like to know you are not alone here!)
Hugs, Kara


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## Zandoz

CurvyEm said:


> How do you know if you've got it if no one sleeps in the same room with you?



I was bad enough that the snoring could be heard all through the house. If I stayed at my mom's for some reason, she would not be able to sleep in her room across the hall...for all the snoring....and from being worried when I stopped snoring, because she knew I was not breathing then.


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## sweetnnekked

Zandoz said:


> I have sleep apnea...bad. I'm rather surprised that the doc is sending you to a pulmonary specialist before a sleep study...it seems generally the study is the first step. Regardless, do not put off getting checked out...I found out in a very hard way that it can kill you if left untreated. I had let it go so far that a few hours into the first night of a two night sleep study, the study technician woke me and immediately put me on a CPAP, because they were afraid I was going to kick off there in their lab.


Same thing happened to me!!!


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## Emma

How come this has been moved into here? It's hardly fun, games or off topic.


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## saucywench

loves2laugh said:


> well i went to the doctor today because my mom said she heard me snoring and then gasping for breath when i was sleeping. the doctor said so far it sounds like typical sleep apnea but i have to be evaluated by a pulmonary doctor who specializes in sleep disorders.
> anybody been through this?


Yep: http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3449


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## saucywench

Zandoz said:


> I have sleep apnea...bad. I'm rather surprised that the doc is sending you to a pulmonary specialist before a sleep study...it seems generally the study is the first step.


I first (because of insurance requirements at the time) had to see my PCP, who then referred me to a pulmonogist. The pulmonologist then referred me to the sleep lab. Then back to the pulmonologist after the sleep study for an evaluation/prescription.


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## Zandoz

saucywench said:


> I first (because of insurance requirements at the time) had to see my PCP, who then referred me to a pulmonogist. The pulmonologist then referred me to the sleep lab. Then back to the pulmonologist after the sleep study for an evaluation/prescription.




At least around here, pulmonologist seems to be totally out of the loop. I never saw one, and of the folks I know around here who've been through a sleep study, I do not recall one being mentioned. My path was directly from my PCP, through a year of insurance hassles, to the sleep lab. The evaluation and the arrangements for the equipment were handled by the lab, and I took the equipment home from the study.


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## missaf

My path to a sleep study was from my ENT doctor because of asthma and sever sinus issues. I went through the test okay, and the technician did a lot to help me relax. Be sure to go early so you can have time to get used to the wires before bed. 

My dad, on the other hand, went because he was ordered to. He is completely resistant to the fact he has apnea, and he's had two accidents because of it. Thank God no one has been hurt. I petitioned the state myself to take away his license, but they said they'd automatically do it if he had one more accident. When I did that, he started using his CFLEX machine more, and he's now wearing it 3-4 hours a night and feeling better about himself and he's able to drive longer distances. 

If you don't have someone who sleeps in room with you, get a tape recorder and put it near your bed for a few hours. If that doesn't work for you, have a close friend over and ask them to listen to you snore for a while


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## loves2laugh

saucywench said:


> I first (because of insurance requirements at the time) had to see my PCP, who then referred me to a pulmonogist. The pulmonologist then referred me to the sleep lab. Then back to the pulmonologist after the sleep study for an evaluation/prescription.




this is sort of my story except that the pulmonary doctor is also a sleep specialist so hopfully my insurance will pay for everrything.


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## ChubbyBlackSista

Sleep Apnea does occur in people who are overweight. That must be really scary can you imagine not breathing and then suddenly coming back alive I could not live through that. But I do give people credit who have this disorder... yes they do test people see if they might have the disorder and I think that is very smart of them to do that. I was talking to a boy that was overweight and his mom was steady feeding him ice cream every single day this boy would confront his mom and she would disregard his feelings which is just total bullshit to me because you ought to listen to your children and do your parenting dutie.


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## AnnMarie

No clue why it was moved (but I don't know where it was to begin with either).


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## Emma

AnnMarie said:


> No clue why it was moved (but I don't know where it was to begin with either).



I could have sworn it was on the main board but I might be going mad LOL


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## loves2laugh

CurvyEm said:


> I could have sworn it was on the main board but I might be going mad LOL





maybe we are both crazy- i thought i posted it there too! hahahahhahaha


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## BigBawdyDame

My b/f has sleep apnea and has been using a CPAP since before we started dating. For him, it's been a God send. He's told me horror stories about how cranky he was because he wasn't sleeping well. And physically he was a mess also. 
So, don't look at it as a negative situation. You may not realize how crummy you feel until you begin to feel better. The only thing for me was getting used to the noise at night when I spend the night with him. But, that was only of a phethora of things I had to become accustomed to while sleeping in his bed.


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## SoVerySoft

I've got it too. Been using a CPAP since 1998.

I recently changed from the mask to nasal pillows. I like them MUCH better (after 2 days to get used to them)

My average weight ex-husband had severe sleep apnea too. I think I caught it from him


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## BBWDREAMLOVER

I was diagnosed with sleep apnea at the age of 13, I had my tonsils and adnoids removed and it seemed to just go away. Since I've been staying with my sister she told me she's noticed I stop breathing while sleeping meaning my sleep apnea has returned. She said it only seems to happen when I'm snoring and on my belly. When I sleep on my side she said I don't even snore...........My Dr tells me to keep my head up at night and sleep on my side. 
I visited the site http://www.sleepapnea.org/ alot of good info but I'd like others input also.
Question for those who have it...........What do you do to cope? Are you as scared to not wake up as I am?


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## saucywench

BBWDREAMLOVER said:


> I was diagnosed with sleep apnea at the age of 13, I had my tonsils and adnoids removed and it seemed to just go away. Since I've been staying with my sister she told me she's noticed I stop breathing while sleeping meaning my sleep apnea has returned. She said it only seems to happen when I'm snoring and on my belly. When I sleep on my side she said I don't even snore...........My Dr tells me to keep my head up at night and sleep on my side.
> I visited the site http://www.sleepapnea.org/ alot of good info but I'd like others input also.
> Question for those who have it...........What do you do to cope? Are you as scared to not wake up as I am?


http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?p=50317#poststop

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?p=120138#poststop

Most of what has already been discussed on this topic is located in these two threads.

To answer your questions...

Yes, if you're not using a CPAP or BiPAP machine and you _do _have sleep apnea, you _should_ be afraid of not waking up, as sleep apnea can be life-threatening. I mean, by nature of the diagnosis, you do stop breathing during sleep, albeit for possibly hundreds of seconds at a time during the regular course of sleep. If the condition goes untreated, those seconds add up. It reminds me of the admonition that every cigarette smoked takes a minute (I think experts are now saying four minutes) off your life. What I'm trying to say is that every day the condition goes untreated takes its toll on your physical well-being. Therefore, in response to your other question, the way to "cope" is to see a doctor, get referred to a sleep study, get a prescription for a positive airway pressure machine, and use it. Religiously.


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## UncannyBruceman

I suspect that I may have it myself, seeing as that I can only sleep comfortably when I'm on my side as well. But sleep apnea is the medical profession's new flavor of the month in their attempts to solicit weight loss surgery, so of course, they're going to scare you into thinking that you're going to die in your sleep. Unforunately for the doctors, I'm a mere 200lbs, so blaming my case on obesity is not an option for them.

Just buy a shit load of pillows and continue sleeping on your side.


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## Happy FA

I have had sleep apnea for more than 5 years and I deal with it through the use of a cpap machine(Continuous Positive Airway Pressure). There is no "cure" to sleep apnea. In some cases, people who are fat get some relief from losing weight, but generally this will never cure the problem, it will merely abate some of the symptoms. Also, as you get older the problem becomes more intractable(and definitely requires treatment) as your tissues in the throat become less toned and thus more likely to block your airway(what causes the problem) when you're sleeping. 

The problems associated with living with an untreated sleep apnea are significant. It will increase blood pressure, put significant stress on your heart and blood vessels, potentially create asthmatic problems as well as giving you headaches, tend to cause you to gain weight(which will exacerbate the condition) and generally make you very miserable. Also, you will tend to fall asleep whenever you sit down and driving becomes exceptionally dangerous as your body which becomes totally sleep deprived, will try to sleep whenever it can, including when you're on the road. 

What happens with sleep apnea is that your body falls asleep, the muscles in the throat lose their tone and sag until the tissues contact, blocking the airway. The diaphragm keeps on working but no air comes in or goes out. Eventually the brain notes the oxygen level in the blood dropped below some threshold and pumps adrenalin into your system, waking you up. When you wake your muscles tone, the airway opens and you get some fresh air/oxygen into your system. As soon as the oxygen level goes above the threshold the body, which is incredibly overtired, falls back asleep and the cycle repeats itself. The cycle can repeat more than once a minute for an entire 8 hour night.. so that no matter how long you will sleep you'll be just as tired when you get up, because you haven't gotten to a deep sleep or REM sleep, and haven't been asleep for more than a minute or two at a time at any point. Because you're so overtired you don't realize that you've woken up that many times, but you have.

Sleeping on your back is the worst position for sleep apnea as the tissues are most likely to collapse and block the airway. On the stomach isn't much better, with the sides being an improvement. Elevating your head helps only slightly at best. 

The "cures" of surgery are very poor, achieve a partial success only, and are reputed to be incredibly painful(essentially they burn out a part of your throat), and the tissues tend to grow back along with scar tissue. Definitely something to stay away from.

Some people with very minor apnea are able to treat the symptoms with a special mouthpiece that helps a bit, but I've never met anyone or heard from anyone for whom that was ultimately successful.

The cpap machine sits by your bedside and you wear something over your nose, either a mask or what are called nasal pillows(the mask covers the nose area, the nasal pillows fit inside your nostrils... each has its group that prefers the one over the other). Both have a headgear which are straps you adjust that fit around the back of your head to hold the mask or nasal pillows in place over your nose. For inveterate mouth breathers they have a full face mask which also covers the mouth. You need to wear the cpap whenever you sleep, and if you're like me, won't go anywhere to sleep without it. You can sleep on your back or sides, but can't sleep on your stomach with the mask.

Hope that helps you.


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## JerseyGirl07093

I have sleep apnea too, and I didn't even know I had it. I just happened to mention something to my Dr. last year and he said why don't you have a sleep study done. It was so close to my house (seems no specialists ever are!) so I decided to do it. I actually slept GREAT (or so I thought) the night I took the test. Turns out I had sleep apnea! I've been using a CPAP machine for about a year now and I actually sleep through the night now. I didn't realize just how bad I was sleeping until I started using the CPAP. It took some getting used to and sometimes it's a pain, but in the end the good far outweighs the bad. Also, my sleep apnea definitely got worse when I got fatter. I'm hoping if I lose weight the sleep apnea will go away. But for now, it's me and my CPAP every night! :smitten: How romantic! NOT! lol


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## missaf

My dad uses a CFLEX machine, and it's taken him years to get used to wearing it. My beau uses a CPAP machine, but he ends up knocking it off in the middle of the night. I suggested he get a different mask, so we're looking into that to see what options might work better for him. There are countless masks on the market!

One thing we used to do for my dad was sew a tennis ball into his PJs, inside a sock. When he slept on his back, the tennis ball would bug the hell out of him and he'd roll over onto his side and he'd stop snoring.


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## Les Toil

You MUST get a CPAP machine, Dream. It's imparative if you have sleep apnea or believe you are headed in that direction. Strained sleep causes brain damage and...well...suffucation.


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## BBWDREAMLOVER

Happy FA said:


> I have had sleep apnea for more than 5 years and I deal with it through the use of a cpap machine(Continuous Positive Airway Pressure). There is no "cure" to sleep apnea. In some cases, people who are fat get some relief from losing weight, but generally this will never cure the problem, it will merely abate some of the symptoms. Also, as you get older the problem becomes more intractable(and definitely requires treatment) as your tissues in the throat become less toned and thus more likely to block your airway(what causes the problem) when you're sleeping.
> 
> The problems associated with living with an untreated sleep apnea are significant. It will increase blood pressure, put significant stress on your heart and blood vessels, potentially create asthmatic problems as well as giving you headaches, tend to cause you to gain weight(which will exacerbate the condition) and generally make you very miserable. Also, you will tend to fall asleep whenever you sit down and driving becomes exceptionally dangerous as your body which becomes totally sleep deprived, will try to sleep whenever it can, including when you're on the road.
> 
> What happens with sleep apnea is that your body falls asleep, the muscles in the throat lose their tone and sag until the tissues contact, blocking the airway. The diaphragm keeps on working but no air comes in or goes out. Eventually the brain notes the oxygen level in the blood dropped below some threshold and pumps adrenalin into your system, waking you up. When you wake your muscles tone, the airway opens and you get some fresh air/oxygen into your system. As soon as the oxygen level goes above the threshold the body, which is incredibly overtired, falls back asleep and the cycle repeats itself. The cycle can repeat more than once a minute for an entire 8 hour night.. so that no matter how long you will sleep you'll be just as tired when you get up, because you haven't gotten to a deep sleep or REM sleep, and haven't been asleep for more than a minute or two at a time at any point. Because you're so overtired you don't realize that you've woken up that many times, but you have.
> 
> Sleeping on your back is the worst position for sleep apnea as the tissues are most likely to collapse and block the airway. On the stomach isn't much better, with the sides being an improvement. Elevating your head helps only slightly at best.
> 
> The "cures" of surgery are very poor, achieve a partial success only, and are reputed to be incredibly painful(essentially they burn out a part of your throat), and the tissues tend to grow back along with scar tissue. Definitely something to stay away from.
> 
> Some people with very minor apnea are able to treat the symptoms with a special mouthpiece that helps a bit, but I've never met anyone or heard from anyone for whom that was ultimately successful.
> 
> The cpap machine sits by your bedside and you wear something over your nose, either a mask or what are called nasal pillows(the mask covers the nose area, the nasal pillows fit inside your nostrils... each has its group that prefers the one over the other). Both have a headgear which are straps you adjust that fit around the back of your head to hold the mask or nasal pillows in place over your nose. For inveterate mouth breathers they have a full face mask which also covers the mouth. You need to wear the cpap whenever you sleep, and if you're like me, won't go anywhere to sleep without it. You can sleep on your back or sides, but can't sleep on your stomach with the mask.
> 
> Hope that helps you.


My Dr tells me to raise the head of my bed but only problem there is I also have to raise the end of my bed to keep my feet up at night so the swelling goes down from the previous day. I have like 10 pillows now all of them I use..........lately I haven't had the headaches in the morning and I'm not as sleepy during the day. I've been using Calritan D for allergy and congestion....thats all I've done different besides the pillows.


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## BBWDREAMLOVER

saucywench said:


> http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?p=50317#poststop
> 
> http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?p=120138#poststop
> 
> Most of what has already been discussed on this topic is located in these two threads.
> 
> To answer your questions...
> 
> Yes, if you're not using a CPAP or BiPAP machine and you _do _have sleep apnea, you _should_ be afraid of not waking up, as sleep apnea can be life-threatening. I mean, by nature of the diagnosis, you do stop breathing during sleep, albeit for possibly hundreds of seconds at a time during the regular course of sleep. If the condition goes untreated, those seconds add up. It reminds me of the admonition that every cigarette smoked takes a minute (I think experts are now saying four minutes) off your life. What I'm trying to say is that every day the condition goes untreated takes its toll on your physical well-being. Therefore, in response to your other question, the way to "cope" is to see a doctor, get referred to a sleep study, get a prescription for a positive airway pressure machine, and use it. Religiously.


Thank You!


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## BBWDREAMLOVER

UncannyBruceman said:


> I suspect that I may have it myself, seeing as that I can only sleep comfortably when I'm on my side as well. But sleep apnea is the medical profession's new flavor of the month in their attempts to solicit weight loss surgery, so of course, they're going to scare you into thinking that you're going to die in your sleep. Unforunately for the doctors, I'm a mere 200lbs, so blaming my case on obesity is not an option for them.
> 
> Just buy a shit load of pillows and continue sleeping on your side.


lol I did lol


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## missaf

Yeah, I used to sleep with a million pillows. I often thought of buying a craftmatic bed so I could sleep like \_/ <--- that.

LOL


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## BBWDREAMLOVER

missaf said:


> Yeah, I used to sleep with a million pillows. I often thought of buying a craftmatic bed so I could sleep like \_/ <--- that.
> 
> LOL


LOL I've been thinking that!


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## sweetnnekked

It's rather odd that this just came up now. I've had sleep apnea all of my life, unbeknown to me until six years ago.
I ended up getting a bi-pap machine and, except for the first week, have slept beautifully for the past six years.
Until last night. Last night the motor burned out and I can't afford to pay for repairs right now. I am not looking forward to going to bed tonight.


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## BigMcLargeHuge

Hi Gorgeous,

I also have sleep apnea. One thing I want to stress is: you won't sufficate in your sleep or stop breathing permanently and never wake up. Your brain/body will force you to take a breath before you would suffocate.
Others are correct however in that there are other side effects (headache, stress on the heart, etc.) so it is important to find a therapy that works (cpap, etc.).

Yours,
BigMcLargeHuge


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## Miss Vickie

UncannyBruceman said:


> I suspect that I may have it myself, seeing as that I can only sleep comfortably when I'm on my side as well. But sleep apnea is the medical profession's new flavor of the month in their attempts to solicit weight loss surgery, so of course, they're going to scare you into thinking that you're going to die in your sleep. Unforunately for the doctors, I'm a mere 200lbs, so blaming my case on obesity is not an option for them.
> 
> Just buy a shit load of pillows and continue sleeping on your side.



Totally different specialties, Bruceman. The people who do sleep studies are usually pulmonologists or sleep specialists, not surgeons. Sleep apnea -- and the havoc it wreaks on health and personal life -- are very very real. And yes, you can die in your sleep. Or behind the wheel of your car when you fall asleep from exhaustion and hit a semi, or another car or a tree. Or even a heart attack because the constant low levels of oxygen are a strain on the heart. 

And... well, you get the picture. It's definitely not something to be taken lightly.


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## missaf

I've seen links between them, though, Vickie. The hospital where I had my sleep study mandates a sleep study before every WLS procedure. Anyone who is overweight at the time of their sleep study assigned by a doctor has their chart run through the WLS clinic by the hospital, and they're proactively contacted to get on the waiting list for WLS. It's dirty and underhanded in my opinion.


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## Miss Vickie

missaf said:


> I've seen links between them, though, Vickie. The hospital where I had my sleep study mandates a sleep study before every WLS procedure. Anyone who is overweight at the time of their sleep study assigned by a doctor has their chart run through the WLS clinic by the hospital, and they're proactively contacted to get on the waiting list for WLS. It's dirty and underhanded in my opinion.



I think it's used diagnostically but to say that the medical community is making much ado about nothing is belittling a very serious health concern. The kind of stuff you're talking about is wrong, in my opinion, so in that we agree. But it doesn't happen here. Hell, I have a hard time getting ANY two doctors of two different specialties to talk to each other sometimes.  Getting a cardiac consult is like pulling... um... teeth.

I think having a sleep study prior to any big surgery that requires general anesthesia is a good idea, though, especially if someone is high risk or is symptomatic for sleep apnea because that does increase their anesthesia risk. When I was pre-opping for WLS they asked if I had sleep apnea, I said no, we discussed it a bit and I opted not to have the sleep study since I wasn't symptomatic. I did have a complete pulmonary function test, however, including blood gases, which came pretty damn good despite having a lung disease and regular breathing problems; despite all that, STILL I dropped my sats during surgery which almost made them defer the procedure. Once they changed my position, though, and got my abdominal fat OFF my lungs, I was good to go and the surgery went off without a hitch.(I still wonder how many brain cells I lost, though....)

I just worry when I see people making light of sleep apnea. It is a VERY VERY serious disease, hardly "disease of the month".


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## missaf

Oh yeah, I'm not making light of it, it scares me half to death every time I share a hotel room with my dad to hear him stop breathing. I want to get up and shake him every 60 seconds  When he wears his CFLEX he's fine, he just knocks it off in his sleep.


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## Zim2.0

well I dont know if I could help you or if someone has already posted this but dream you can try making a special shirt. just take an old shirt that fits.....hah.....thats kinda funny. anyway do what my dad did and sew a pocket on the back with a tennis ball inside that way whenever your on your back youll roll to the side.....but in your case you may want to put 3 tennis balls in the front but that worked for my dad and he is fighting it. Good luck I hope that nothing happens to such an amazing girl like yourself dream.

Xander


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## ChickletsBBW

UncannyBruceman said:


> I suspect that I may have it myself, seeing as that I can only sleep comfortably when I'm on my side as well. But sleep apnea is the medical profession's new flavor of the month in their attempts to solicit weight loss surgery, so of course, they're going to scare you into thinking that you're going to die in your sleep. Unforunately for the doctors, I'm a mere 200lbs, so blaming my case on obesity is not an option for them.
> 
> Just buy a shit load of pillows and continue sleeping on your side.



weigh related or not.. my bro had sleep apnea most off of his life and was obese until he had WLS and is now 6'1 and 250 down from 560 on day of surgery and he no longer has sleep apnea

so.. who knows? maybe it's case-by-case?

but then again... I'm certainly more than 250 and I don't have sleep apnea ... who knows?


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## Miss Vickie

missaf said:


> Oh yeah, I'm not making light of it, it scares me half to death every time I share a hotel room with my dad to hear him stop breathing. I want to get up and shake him every 60 seconds  When he wears his CFLEX he's fine, he just knocks it off in his sleep.



Oh I know YOU'RE not. I felt that Bruce was, though, or turning it into some medical conspiracy to bilk fat folks out of money and push us into WLS. It is scary, especially when you live with someone who has it and who hasn't gotten treatment. I hate counting the seconds, wondering "to nudge or not to nudge".


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## squurp

by being overweight, you increase your risk and/or severity of sleep apnea. I think if you search, this is pretty well documented. However, weight is NOT the only factor. Genetics is perhaps the largest factor, as in anything. I have known several skinny folks who suffer from this. Physical fitness is another factor. Sleep apnea is less common in very athletic people. But these are all just predispositions and none will absolutely result in, or cure sleep apnea.


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## pdgujer148

I could not function without my CPAP. I know this from hard personal experience.

About five years ago I noticed that I was finding it harder and harder to stay awake at work. I would fall asleep in my cube; even snore sometimes. I started nodding off during movies, conversations, and, no kidding, foreplay. No matter how long I slept I was always tired. I was angry all the time, depressed, and the relationship I was in was crumbling around me.

My boss gave me an ultimatum: Get help, or get fired. So, I went to the doctor. I was diagnosed as having clinical depression. She put me on Prozac.

Prozac was interesting. After a month, I was still tired, irrationally angry all the time, with the added bonus of being completely disinterested in sex. Yea Prozac! It did, however, help me deal with the fact that I was about to be fired. No problemo!

I found out that I had sleep apnea when I dozed off during a visit to a friends apartment. She is a SSBBW and has been living with apnea for years. She shook me awake and told me exactly what was going on and what to do: Go to your doctor and force her to order a sleep study.

So, I bitched at my doctor until she agreed to a sleep study. I went in for the sleep study. I slept for a few hours as usual. They woke me up, hooked a bunch of electrodes and whatnot to my head, and then sent me back to bed with a mask and CPAP.

They woke me the following morning and told me the following: You have sleep apnea, you never achieved REM sleep during unaided sleep, you blood oxygen level was as low as 36%, your resting heart rate was over 120 beats per minute. They fitted me for a mask, gave me a CPAP machine and sent me home. 

Within a week I was transformed. I know this sounds like some PSA from the fifties, but facts is facts. One week I felt like death in the desert; the next week I was 14 again. I felt rested, happy, and my libido was back at 11. After the requisite amount of groveling, I was golden by again at work. 

I eventually went back and bitch-slapped my doctor for wasting 6 months of my life.

My point, I had no idea that my quality of life has sunk so low. Being incredibly exhausted all the time seemed natural. Bad stuff seems to sneak up on you so slowly: your True North deviates by degrees so subtlety that you dont notice that you are facing South. You assume that what you are now is all that there is. 

Ask your physician for a sleep study. In all likelihood you apnea isnt as severe as mine. All the same, piling up pillows and sleeping on you side is the PX for snoring; not apnea. Find out if you have apnea, If you do, get a CPAP and use it (I had a slight twinge of vanity when they handed me the Hannibal Lector mask, but after a week of use I could have cared less--most women I have been with since find the sound of the CPAP relaxing--kind of like some electronic Zen box..). Give it a shot, if you have sleep apnea, you have no idea how dramatically your life could change.

(sorry this is so long. I a newbie)


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## SoVerySoft

Welcome, pdgujer,

Great post (for a newbie ) Seriously, good info here. A very dramatic story.

I was also falling asleep at work. And in my car (whenever I stopped for a red light).

I call my cpap my magic sleep machine. 

I love it.


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## Zandoz

I've talked about my sleep apnea experience before...the details are probably in one of those threads Saucy noted. For here and now, I'll just say that sleep apnea nearly killed me....and is probably a large part of the reason for me having next to no short term memory. It's nothing to take lightly. Go get a sleep study if for nothing more than peace of mind. If it turns out that you have sleep apnea, it can be dealt with to a large degree. If you don't have it, you will sleep easier knowing for sure. Either way you win.

If it turns out that you do need a CPAP or BiPAP, you have a ready made support group right here. I and no doubt the others already dealing with it will be glad to help.


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## Happy FA

Zandoz is so right. Go get yourself tested. If you've got sleep apnea get it treated. It will raise blood pressure, tend to make asthma more severe, and make worse a variety of different conditions. If you don't have it, you'll sleep better knowing that, lol


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## Buffetbelly

BigMcLargeHuge said:


> Hi Gorgeous,
> 
> I also have sleep apnea. One thing I want to stress is: you won't sufficate in your sleep or stop breathing permanently and never wake up. Your brain/body will force you to take a breath before you would suffocate.
> Others are correct however in that there are other side effects (headache, stress on the heart, etc.) so it is important to find a therapy that works (cpap, etc.).
> 
> Yours,
> BigMcLargeHuge


 
That's right. The biggest problem from sleep apnea is being sleepy during the day. You could fall asleep driving and die behind the wheel. That's what does in people with sleep apnea, not dying in bed at night. After that, the biggest risk is high blood pressure from the stress at night. Do the CPAP. A lot less risky than weight loss surgery, IMHO.


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## MetalheadMissy74

I am afraid of mine help? anyone have this happen. just put it on feel like its gonan smother ya?and just not use it at all at night .I would of asked another grup but their suggestion for sleep apena for me would be to slash my intestines in half and hook them up to my stomach somehow. not for me i am going the lapband route way so i had a sleep study done even before i go to he surgical center for my own piece of mind to rule out any other problems i have before signing up. i am just to CLAUSTROPHOBIC. my psych doctor has me on burpsar and serequel for sleep and helping me to relax the serequel is a anti psychotic hehe not sure why he's using that for sleep strange ay. its in a low dose 50 mgs i was without sleep for weeks cause of finding out bout apnea now that i could possible get a good night sleep i am afraid of the machine to help me. the pig snout shaped mask i just flung that right off minute they borught it in the other day ad the medical supply place to show me whichn ones. i feel somewhat comfortable wiht the full face which is the one i have on my machine now but not SAFE enough feeeling to sleep with it. everytime i put the stupid thing on i feel i am gonna smother if i sleep it could strangle me. strange ay? HELP . i finally got some sleep yesterday the whole month i bet maybe 20 hours if that. this is suppose to help me but ( i hate it. I need all the help i can get fellow bbws and admirers.


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## Mini

... What? 

(Blah blah blah.)


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## AnnMarie

Ignore him. ^

While your post is very difficult to get through, I gather you're asking if others here have gotten used to using the CPAP despite feeling it's suffocating them?

I know several people who use them, and one who has that feeling... like it's too close to his mouth, feels like it can't be helping. He knows, however, that that feeling is in his head and over many months was able to get used to it and now can't sleep/live without it. 

You just need to calm down, realize it's a helpful device, and aside from helping you sleep will do wonders for your heart and brain as well. They don't enjoy lack of oxygen, so "suck it up" and get used to it.... from everything I've heard from other CPAP users, it will be the best thing that happens to you. 

Good luck.


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## saucywench

All that stuff AnnMarie said. Especially, calm down.

Yeah, I mean it kind of snarky but I mean it literally, too. You just have to stop freaking out and let the machine do its thing. Sorry to sound so unsympathetic but, as a CPAP user for the past 5 years, I am having a hard time understanding why you're fighting it. If you have had that little sleep in that amount of time, why do you not just let your body relax and drift off? The more you resist the longer it will take to improve. And I'm surprised that the drugs don't seem to be helping you toward that end.

I was a walking zombie before I got my CPAP. During the sleep study I fell asleep on the bed before they even came to my room to hook me up to the machine--I was that exhausted. I realized very quickly the CPAP was the solution to a lot of my misery and I was so grateful to have it, I wasted no time in getting used to it. 

The mask is not going to smother you. It's just what you have to use for the machine to work for you. I have the feeling that maybe you're trying to breathe through your mouth. If you open your mouth while you have the mask on the air from the machine will just flow up your nasal passages, down the back of your throat, and right back out your mouth. That's not how it works. When you're ready for bed turn the machine on, put the mask on (or the other way around), get in the most comfortable position you can, relax, and keep your mouth closed. Just breathe in through your nose. Calmly. You'll breathe the air right back out again, without the use of your mouth. It's designed to save your life, not kill you.

If you continue to fight it, try using the CPAP at certain times of the day, just to get used to it. Set the machine up somewhere where you can read or watch tv or something--any activity that's not going to require you to talk (open your mouth.) If you can find something instead of the machine to focus on, you might just let it do its job without even thinking about it. 

Hope that helps.


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## BigBeautifulMe

I'm actually a quasi-expert on this topic, Missy. I've been using a CPAP for a year and a half and made it my mission to learn anything and everything about apnea and CPAP. If you've just started CPAP, it'll just take getting used to. A lot of it is your mindset. Think of it as something that is saving your life (because it is). If it's been longer than a month and you're still feeling smothered, it's quite likely your pressure is too low and needs to be changed. Come on over to a board I frequent - cpaptalk.com. It's full of great, knowledgeable people who love to help newbies. Now and again there's a weight loss thread started, but they're easy to ignore. Seriously - come visit. Lots of people are going through what you are, or have been through it before. If you need any more advice, feel free to PM me.


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## MetalheadMissy74

thanks for all the advice.  sorry if my post seemed some what incoherent. Its not good when I am sleepy . . I think tonite what I'll do is watch tv land some old fashioned tv shows knock me out quick while wearing the cpap and fix the ramp stuff on it should work. what i dont know can't hurt me . tonite is gonna be a metal less night all that does is upset me more while trying to rest haha metal is good for somethings bad for others. I don't expect cannibal corpse to be good bedtime music.


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## sweetnnekked

Yes, pay attention to what saucywench and others tell you.
I have a similar problem almost every night, and I've been using mine for about seven years.
When I get ready for bed, I'm usually all pumped up and breathing harder than I am in a resting stage. I suggest turning the machine on but not putting it on your head immediately. Lie down, relax and let your breathing relax too. Once you're comfortable and breathing normally, slip it on and everything should just fall into place.
I'm telling you, once you get used to it, you'll never want to sleep without it again!!


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## Zandoz

I've been a CPAP/BiPAP user for close to 10 years now. I'd be glad to talk with you any time. Early on, I had the smothering sensation also...I found my self literally fighting against the machine when I turned it on...but I found a couple tricks that worked for me. 

First off, I found the ramp-up feature to be contributing to the problem, not helping. Between the start-up delay in the machine coming up to full pressure, and the reduced pressure ramp-up, the machine was not delivering enough air for me, which just added to the panic. 

What worked for me was to hold the mask away from my face, start the machine, and let it come to full pressure. Then, I take a deep breath, and exhale hard as I bring the mask to my face...then inhale and breath normally. The deep breath gives you air and time to aclaimate without the immidiate panic.

To get over the claustrophobia aspects, try a two way approach. First, remove the mask from the head gear, and get used to wearing the headgear by itself. Second, in a relaxed setting, holding the mask in your hand, practice the trick I mentioned above, and generally getting used to breathing through the CPAP...take your time and relax.

Others have mentioned the possibility of breathing through your mouth contributing to the problem...this is very likely if you have a natural tendency to breath through your mouth. There are add-on chin straps available to help with this problem.

Another big issue is being sure that the mask itself fits properly. My and other folks I know experience is that the support folks generally do a poor job in this regard. You should not feel air rushing from anywhere around the mask, once it is fitted. If you are feeling air blowing in your eyes, or over your cheeks or mouth, the mask is not fitting properly.

The other thing that comes to mind right off hand is the fitting of the headgear...most are very adjustable...experiment. The configuration that works for me is pretty far from the illustrations and instructions that came with the headgear.

Finally, the biggest thing is DO NOT GIVE UP! Keep at it. Experiment. Practice. Find what works for you...the alternative can be fatal.


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## BigBeautifulMe

Zandoz just gave you some excellent advice, Missy. I've never used ramp from day 1 - I definitely feel smothered by it. 

Also, if the mask is just not comfortable for you, you should know something that my DME (durable medical equipment provider) never bothered to tell me - there are DOZENS of different masks out there. There will be ONE that works for you. Believe me. It took me a year to find mine, but I found it, and I LOVE it. 

Chin straps don't generally work for most people, though. 

Try this: Clench your jaw shut, and try to blow air out through your lips/teeth. That demonstrates why chin straps don't work for most - all chin straps do is help keep your jaw shut. 

If you're mouth-breathing, there are other options, including full face masks, and other things - you name it, people have found a way to make it work.  As I said, come by the other board, there's amazing amounts of good advice there.


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## NFA

Everyone's provided very good advice. The best thing I can tell you is that it is absolutely worth your time and energy to figure this out. Use your machine. Find a way to make it work for you with the suggestions being provided. It REALLY does make an enormous difference. You will feel SO much better. Talk to the folks here about your concerns, talk to your doctor if they can help. Just do what you have to do to get the help the machine can give you. It will do you so much good. Good luck getting it figured out.


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## missaf

It took my dad 10 years to get used to his, because he refused to try. He was so claustrophobic, he gave up. When he realized he was going to die -- he tried, and he tried hard -- and now he has to take it everywhere AND sleep with it for naps! 

Do yourself a favor and try your best, your life depends on it.


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## SoVerySoft

One more suggestion would be to explore the possibility of nasal pillows instead of a mask. Nasal pillows are 2 soft plugs that sit against your nostrils. 

There is much less against your face, and surrounding your nose. See pic below.

Also, I agree that the ramp feature is a negative - I start full force so I can breathe easily right away.

I adapted to my cpap in one night - I love it. I call it my magic sleep machine!

View attachment Mirage%20Swift%20Nasal%20Pillows.jpg​


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## SoVerySoft

saucywench said:


> ...When you're ready for bed turn the machine on, put the mask on (or the other way around)...



Lots of great advice, Cindy. I do want to mention something tho - I always turn the machine on before putting on the headgear. Maybe I have an overactive imagination but the idea that a spider or something might have crawled into the hose is enough to keep me from starting the CPAP _after_ I put on the mask. I don't wanna blow any little buggies up my nose!


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## Fuzzy

I think we need a permanent CPAP forum. (Much more important than Hyde Park ever will)


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## BigBeautifulMe

The mask that SoVerySoft posted is called the Mirage Swift (made by ResMed), and is a really good interface. Depending on the shape of your face and on which position you sleep in the most (back, stomach, side), different masks may or may not work. I'm a tried-and-true stomach sleeper, and the best mask I've found is called the TwilightNP (made by Invacare, formerly called the Headrest, and called the Aura before that). It's an amazing interface - because of the placement of the exhaust vent, I can sleep with my face buried into the pillow and still be getting all the air.

It fits really well, but I make it even better by adding a pantyhose strap. This is just a leg cut off of a pair of women's pantyhose tights [men, you can call it mantyhose if it makes ya feel better] and used as an extra strap. You just pull the mask closer to your face with it and tie it behind your head. It works really well with the TwilightNP, but can be used to stabilize any mask (just use caution to make sure you aren't blocking the exhaust ports).


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## Tracyarts

When I had surgery last year, I had trouble breathing at night on the morphine I was being administered via IV for pain. 

They tried to get me on a CPAP but it kept feeling like it was smothering me regardless of how they fiddled with the settings. I generally breathe very slowly and deeply, especially when I am at rest, and the CPAP kept trying to force breath into me while I was still exhaling. It was THE most horrible, smothering, claustrophobic feeling I ever had. I had to fight sleep and force myself to breathe more shallow and fast in order not to be smothered. And I would eventually pass out from the drugs and/or exhaustion and wake right back up panicking because I felt I was being smothered when my breathing pattern returned to normal. 

Which didn't work at all, so they just took me off of the CPAP and also off the morphine and I was fine.

I tried many times to explain to the CPAP tech those two nights that the machine was forcing breath into me while I was still trying to exhale and my normal breathing pattern is MUCH slower and deeper than the machine was set for. They fiddled with it several times but never could get it to a rate that worked for me. 

I don't know if I could ever use one unless they could overcome that problem.

Tracy


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## BigBeautifulMe

Tracy, I'm so glad you said that! I'm wondering now if this isn't Missy's problem, too. There absolutely is a solution to that. 

If you like Respironics (RemStar) machines, they now all come with C-Flex. Resmed machines come with EPR. Both offer different forms of exhalation relief. What this does is lower the pressure slightly (up to 3 "Levels" for C-Flex, and up to 3cms of water for EPR) while you're exhaling. It makes exhaling much easier. These are both very effective with relatively low pressures (say, under 14). 

Once you get to 15 and above, or for people with unusual problems breathing out (degenerative disorders, etc), a BiPap is even better. It lowers the pressure even more when you're exhaling.

Don't give up on CPAP! Not only can it change your life, but it can save it as well. Every time you sleep with your apnea untreated you are damaging your heart, your brain, and other vital organs. 

Go back to your doctor and demand a prescription for something with exhalation relief! 

Even better, if you're a techie geek like me, demand something with data recording capability as well.  I have a RemStar Auto with C-Flex myself - this thing has exhalation relief, data recording, and it even changes my pressure as my pressure needs adjust (auto-titrates). 

Technology is amazing, eh?


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## Wagimawr

NFA said:


> Everyone's provided very good advice. The best thing I can tell you is that it is absolutely worth your time and energy to figure this out. Use your machine. Find a way to make it work for you with the suggestions being provided. It REALLY does make an enormous difference. You will feel SO much better. Talk to the folks here about your concerns, talk to your doctor if they can help. Just do what you have to do to get the help the machine can give you. It will do you so much good. Good luck getting it figured out.


Seconding NFA on this one.

My dad's been using one for several years - I'm not aware he's had any issues adapting to it, but it's definitely made a huge difference for him (including the fact that Mom hasn't had to elbow him for snoring in quite some time. )


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## missaf

For those that face the smothering feelings, there are machines known as CFLEX, that allow more customization to your own breathing style. Eventually my dad switched to one of these and was much better with the new machine.


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## Tad

Wow, a lot of users here! I guess that link between weight and sleep problems is a real one, eh? 

Anyway, I have a question just out of curiousity. Do those things work if you can't breathe well through your nose? I'm chronically congested, and a fair bit of the time can't get enough air in through my nose alone. Whenever I read about the CPAP machines I've always wondered if they'd work for me, should I ever need one.

-Ed


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## missaf

Ed, that's a good point. Some nasal medications can alleviate that problem, like Nasonex, even saline nose spray helps for some people. In my case, I had the inside of my nose trimmed and made more open, along with a cleaning of my sinuses, and breathign through my nose is much easier. 

CPAPs literlaly force air through your nose or mouth, or both. It's a little uncomfortable at first, but there are literally hundreds of masks and nasal pillow options -- your Respiratory Therapist will help you figure out which will work best for your situation.


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## Theatrmuse/Kara

I use the nose pillows and headgear from Respironics.........and I agree that the ramp mode can attribute to the sufficating feeling. I have been on CPAP since 1996 and love it! CANNOT sleep without one.

A lot of folks of size have sleep apnea and I have read studies that suggest that fat is not the reason for sleep apnea but an 'outcome' of said sleep apnea. They suggested that in an effort to keep up our energy while sleep deprived........we snack more frequently, may eat more sugar and caffiene.....making it a vicious circle of weight gain. I thought that was an interesting hypothesis.

However, I must add that many say there is a strong genetic factor and my size 8 baby sister also has apnea and now uses the same type of CPAP that I use! LOL!

Interesting stuff, huh?
Hugs and off to put my mask on now before dreamland, Kara


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## Miss Vickie

Theatrmuse/Kara said:


> A lot of folks of size have sleep apnea and I have read studies that suggest that fat is not the reason for sleep apnea but an 'outcome' of said sleep apnea. They suggested that in an effort to keep up our energy while sleep deprived........we snack more frequently, may eat more sugar and caffiene.....making it a vicious circle of weight gain. I thought that was an interesting hypothesis.



Yeah, me too. It's like a chicken and egg thing. The other thing that happens is with, without sufficient sleep, cortisol levels are screwed up, which can also contribute to weight gain. So, there ya go.  I look at it as like the insulin issue. Being big can contribute to insulin resistance and the ultimate downfall of the pancreas, but excess insulin enormously contributes to weight gain because it's a hormone that stimulates both appetite and fat storage. 

Two great tastes that taste great together, ya know?

I was really lucky because sleep apnea was one thing I managed to avoid, but I can imagine how frustrating it is that the only thing that really helps is the mask, which seems like it can be hard to get used to.

Has anyone tried any of the surgical treatments for sleep apnea, like uvulectomy and the pillar technique? I'm curious as to how helpful they are. I have one friend whose husband was cured overnight from the procedure, but he wasn't very big to begin with and had an abnormally large uvula. My experience with this stuff is next to nil but I'm curious about it since I will occasionally have a patient with sleep apnea.


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## BigBeautifulMe

MissVickie,
There are a fortunate few those surgeries help. But the odds are not good with them - something like 40% are helped by it (and this usually actually just means their pressure needs are a little lower), but 60% either aren't helped by it, or their apnea is actually made WORSE by the procedure. Those aren't odds I like. (These odds include the UPPP, Pillar, GGA & MMA, the most commonly-prescribed surgeries for apnea). And even for that percentage that are helped by it, often, either months or years later, their apnea returns and they're back on CPAP (often with a much higher pressure than before). Definitely not worth it, IMHO.


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## BigBeautifulMe

I totally agree with the apnea leads to weight gain thing. Additionally, I read (don't remember where now) that leptin and ghrelin (the hunger / satiety hormones in the body) are thrown severely "out of whack" by sleep deprivation. Therefore, when you're sleep deprived, you feel hungrier (craving carbs because they provide the quickest source of energy) and never feel full. 

I think this was very likely one of the two strong factors that led to my becoming this size, as I was actually born with apnea - but it wasn't diagnosed until I was 25 (I'm 27 now).


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## BigBeautifulMe

Ed,
missaf sort of covered this, but yes - for people who do not breathe well through their nostrils (or for perpetual mouth-breathers) there are full-face masks. These cover your mouth and your nose (but not your whole face). These enable you to breathe easily through your mouth.


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## Miss Vickie

Thanks for the info, BigBeautifulMe. I appreciate it. It's definitely out of my specialty, but I try to be as well rounded (hee!) as I can be. Sleep apnea is such a scary disease and so many people go untreated, I'm trying to get the word out there.


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## Tracyarts

Miss Vickie said:


> Has anyone tried any of the surgical treatments for sleep apnea, like uvulectomy and the pillar technique?.



My husband had that done some years back. The surgery was a total cure for the apnea. He still snores a little, but no more sleep apnea. He had an uvulectomy and also tightening of the tissue/removal of excess tissue of his soft palate. 

Tracy


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## BigBeautifulMe

Tracy,

That's great! I'm so happy to hear your husband is one of the success stories of the UPPP.  Just keep an eye on him.  If he starts developing any of the symptoms, make sure to get him checked out.


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## Tracyarts

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Tracy,
> 
> That's great! I'm so happy to hear your husband is one of the success stories of the UPPP.  Just keep an eye on him.  If he starts developing any of the symptoms, make sure to get him checked out.




Yep, the doctor has had him back for a followup sleep study and so far, so good. Like I said, he still snores a little but no apnea and I am often up late reading so I would notice it. I do keep an eye on it because I know how serious it is. He keeps an eye on me too nights he is up late in case I develop it we can address it ASAP. 

Tracy


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## missaf

Oh.... when my dad's apnea was at its worst, I couldn't travel with him. I would literally lay awake all night waking him up to breathe by poking him with his cane from my bed. I counted every breath and was miserable on my vacations. I had to stop, I couldn't handle it any more  Now I can listen to the drone of the cflex machine and be thankful.


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## Zandoz

edx said:


> Wow, a lot of users here! I guess that link between weight and sleep problems is a real one, eh?
> 
> Anyway, I have a question just out of curiousity. Do those things work if you can't breathe well through your nose? I'm chronically congested, and a fair bit of the time can't get enough air in through my nose alone. Whenever I read about the CPAP machines I've always wondered if they'd work for me, should I ever need one.
> 
> -Ed



Good question Ed. That can be a problem....matter of fact one that I have. I have to take a night time sinus med nightly. Unfortunately I've not found one that lasts more than 6 hours, so frequently I end up taking a 2nd dose arround 6am.


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## Zandoz

missaf said:


> Oh.... when my dad's apnea was at its worst, I couldn't travel with him. I would literally lay awake all night waking him up to breathe by poking him with his cane from my bed. I counted every breath and was miserable on my vacations. I had to stop, I couldn't handle it any more  Now I can listen to the drone of the cflex machine and be thankful.



My mom (when I was home visiting), and later my wife, both said the same thing...and my mom was in the room across the hall. Before my CPAP, my snoring was so loud she could hear me clear over there.


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## missaf

Zandoz said:


> Good question Ed. That can be a problem....matter of fact one that I have. I have to take a night time sinus med nightly. Unfortunately I've not found one that lasts more than 6 hours, so frequently I end up taking a 2nd dose arround 6am.


 
If I remember correctly, Entex PSE is a 12 hour prescription version of Guafeinisin and pseudophedrine. I had to take it when my sinus infections were chronic. Have you tried nasal steroid sprays to help keep everything open?


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## Zandoz

missaf said:


> If I remember correctly, Entex PSE is a 12 hour prescription version of Guafeinisin and pseudophedrine. I had to take it when my sinus infections were chronic. Have you tried nasal steroid sprays to help keep everything open?



I've not heard about Entex...I'll have to check into it. I've tried a lot of the popular nasal congestion/allergy prescriptions over the years (had severe allergy/sinus problems since about age 12). So far, none of them have ever worked as well as plain ole Tylenol Allergy Sinus. But unfortunately with all the drug misuse problems, that has been pulled from the market, and the replacement does not work near as well.

I've tried several of the nasal sprays <shudder> over the years. Besides having a serious "EWWWWW factor" for me, none of them have been effective for me.


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## Theatrmuse/Kara

missaf said:


> Oh.... when my dad's apnea was at its worst, I couldn't travel with him. I would literally lay awake all night waking him up to breathe by poking him with his cane from my bed. I counted every breath and was miserable on my vacations. I had to stop, I couldn't handle it any more  Now I can listen to the drone of the cflex machine and be thankful.



My daughter and son did the same thing with me. We joke now that my snoring could shake the house! LOL! But it is not a joke, they were terrified I would stop breathing during the nite and, like you, would not sleep when on vacations in a hotel room with me for the fear of losing me.

Sent my butt to the sleep apnea doctor because of their heartfelt concern!
Hugs, Kara


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## MetalheadMissy74

has anyone had lapband surgery? and hows that for apnea? I am more then willing to accept a slower weight loss just as long as its successful for me. I don't feel all that safe with the rny procedures  i know ia m a big coward . but yet i feel totally secure with the lapband. and willing to undergo it. and the testing for it.


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## BigBeautifulMe

Missy,
I've seen many people on the CPAP board I frequent lose weight (through various avenues) but still have to stay on CPAP. In general, it might lower their pressure one or two cms, but they still have to keep using it. There are people every now and again that are totally cured...but they are few and far between.


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## Miss Vickie

MetalheadMissy74 said:


> has anyone had lapband surgery? and hows that for apnea? I am more then willing to accept a slower weight loss just as long as its successful for me. I don't feel all that safe with the rny procedures  i know ia m a big coward . but yet i feel totally secure with the lapband. and willing to undergo it. and the testing for it.



Hi Missy, we try to avoid WLS discussions outside the WLS controversy forum. I'd be happy to answer your questions over there, though, if you'd like to start another thread.  (I've had RNY but there are others who've had lap band who'd be happy to talk to you about their experiences, I'm sure).

As for apnea, it can be caused by weight (or exacerbated by weight, anyway) but there are lots of other reasons for it as well, including overly large tonsils and adenoids. I'm not sure I'd get WLS to cure apnea, unless I was sure all the other potential causes were ruled out. Best way to do that is to see a pulmonologist and/or an ENT doc.


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## Zandoz

MetalheadMissy74 said:


> has anyone had lapband surgery? and hows that for apnea? I am more then willing to accept a slower weight loss just as long as its successful for me. I don't feel all that safe with the rny procedures  i know ia m a big coward . but yet i feel totally secure with the lapband. and willing to undergo it. and the testing for it.




IF (note that that is a big "if") the apnea is caused or aggravated by weight, it seems to me the method of weight loss would be irrelevant to the apnea...it would be dependent on the amount of weight lost, not how you lost it.


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## Ho Ho Tai

MetalheadMissy74 said:


> I am afraid of mine help? . . . i finally got some sleep yesterday the whole month i bet maybe 20 hours if that. this is suppose to help me but ( i hate it. I need all the help i can get fellow bbws and admirers.



I am going to give you a brief synopsis of living with a woman who has sleep apnea.

Mrs. Ho Ho and I have been married for over 16 years (and sleeping together for somewhat longer . During the first two years, we lived in widely separated states, and opportunities to spend several entire nights together were rare and precious. We finally started life together in our own apartment. She falls asleep as soon as her head hits the pillow. I'm generally awake for 15 -30 minutes. This gave me an opportunity to observe her when she was sleeping. As I lay with my arm lightly across her tummy, I realized that she was struggling to inhale against resistance. I had some professional experience with apnea and recognized the symptoms of obstructive apnea.

A few months into our life, she woke up out of a sound sleep, leapt out of bed, gasping and making the most terrifying sounds imaginable. I was scared to death, not knowing what was happening. She couldn't seem to get her breath! I took her arm and, as she calmed a bit and breath returned, she was eventually able to articulate the experience. To make a long story a bit shorter, she did go in for a sleep study, which revealed both reflux and obstructive apnea. The reflux apparently was triggering spasmotic activity in the larynx. However, (and this still PO's me) she didn't exhibit enough episodes per hour to qualify for a CPAP mask prescription!

Medication did at least partially suppress the reflux and she never did have another panic attack, at least of that magnitude. But snoring became much worse over time. I was torn between needing to move to a spare bed to get some sleep myself, but risking not being present if she needed me. Tough choice.

Finally, about 5 years ago, a second test did qualify her for the CPAP gear. Of the available options, she chose the nasal pillows, which have worked fairly well. However, after reading this thread, we may investigate other devices for delivery.

Another complication arose after she got the CPAP - this concerning me. To use this gear, she could sleep only on her back. While she no longer snored, I had a problem falling asleep because I felt so isolated from her! It was as if she was off in her own world - almost like being in a coffin - and we were accustomed to falling asleep in some sort of cuddling position.

This is how we solved this. After a bit of pillow talk and cuddling, she turns on her back and adjusts her mask. It always takes a few minutes for her to get comfortable, but then she gives me a signal - "Umm-hmm-hmm" ("I love you" in CPAP-talk - she can't speak effectively against the pressure of the incoming air). She then extends her arm to me and cradles my head on her shoulder. It's usually OK for me to extend my arm across her tummy, but there are times when that is not comfortable for her. However, overall, it does give us a way to stay in physical contact as we drift off. Usually, I will finally turn over into my own sleeping position, but there isn't that sudden discontinuity which used to be so disconcerting.

Mrs. Ho Ho may add something to this thread. She is reading it with great interest. Her personal experience will certainly be more relevant than my second hand one.

I will add just this: This is a superb thread, with many knowledgeable and experienced posters. However, before the change in board style and the loss of the archives, there were a number of threads concerned with apnea and CPAP equipment. Even now, there are at least six threads on this topic. A general search of the whole board, using either apnea or CPAP (or both) will reveal them. Clearly, it is a widespread problem in our community.


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## Happy FA

I'm greatly heartened by the wealth of knowledge and experience available on the board regarding obstructive sleep apnea. I've been a CPAP user for more than 11 years and can honestly say that its saved my life. At the time I had my original sleep study they found 480 apnea events in an 8 hour period, or one every minute on average.

I had a very positive reaction to the cpap from the beginning and found it to be a real miracle for me. I never had the feelings of claustrophobia or fear of choking or suffocating. However, I have on occasion had a bit of a problem when either the power has gone out in my house or the hose has pulled free from the machine and no pressure is being pushed into the mask and my face. Of course I've woken up each of those times and the problem has gone away.

I've always used a mask, rather than the nasal pillows because I've always found the thought of something sticking in my nostrils to be too intrusive. 

Others I know swear by the nasal pillows as being much less Darth Vader like in look and feel. But, this is definitely a very personal thing which everyone has to figure out based on their own sense of comfort. I've never met anyone who has used a full face mask, but I have spoken to some who have used a chin strap which tends to keep your mouth closed and they've said they prefer that to the full face mask.

My reaction to the CPAP was incredibly rapid and positive. Of course, the first night that I was being titrated(the fancy word for setting the right pressure for the machine) I had over 40% REM and deep sleep after getting nearly zero the night they did the first test. I woke up so rested and refreshed I was hooked on the machine. 

Over the years I've gone back periodically to have myself retested to see what pressure levels I've needed. While my weight has moved up and down through the years it dropped significantly, without any dieting after getting the CPAP as I wasn't doing as much evening eating to keep myself awake.

Just yesterday my wife showed me a segment on The View that Rosey O'Donnell had on how she discovered she had sleep apnea and now has a CPAP machine. She showed the nasal pillows units she uses and the new one that she has just gotten. I'm hopeful that her showing this will spread the gospel of how sleep apnea can be treated completely, even if cures are, for most people not possible.

I'll note that over the years I've tracked my pressure(the last 7 years I've had an autopap unit which self adjusts the pressure it gives me within a preset range) and have a high degree of confidence about the quality of sleep I'm getting. I've never had a problem with breathing out against the pressure that I'm receiving(between 13 and 16), but know that others have. The Bipap and newer CFlex machines tend to help with this. I'll add my view that the ramping feature is a huge negative. It doesn't do much to help you breathe while its working and is more likely to trigger feelings of suffocation then help. I will note that my sleep doctor, who I've been very satisfied with, and who is very knowledgeable, has made clear that just because some pressure is good, more pressure isn't necessarily better. In fact, it can be worse, affecting the mask seal, the ability to breathe and of course the ability to breathe out against the pressure. The software that I have which allows me to download the data in my machine lets me see apnea events noted by the machine and evaluate the quality of my sleep has also increased my confidence in the way my system is working for me. I'm a great believer in more information being good. Each of us needs to be vigilant that the system we have is working well for us.

One other point, which has happened recently for me. Over the last few months I noticed that I was feeling much more tired and run down and not as sharp mentally as in the past. So, I went in for another sleep study to see if my pressures were not right. After the test I was told by the doctor that the pressures I had were just fine and the quality of sleep I was getting was just fine. Ultimately, we determined that the likely cause was not enough sleep. Who would have thunk it that five and a half hours wouldn't be enough. I've increased the amount of sleep by about a half hour a night and I'm back again feeling rested and sharper. So, sometimes, its not just the quality of the sleep, but also the quantity of sleep.

I'd just like to add my voice to those who've said that in most cases the surgical alternatives that exist for "curing" the apnea is not a success except in the views of the surgeons who perform it. My research and my sleep doctor's confirmatory views find that the surgery in about 40% of the cases results in at least a 30% improvement in the incidence of apneas. From the patient's side this means that 60% of the time there is no improvement and the remaining 40% of the time there is partial improvement which means the condition still remains, but is slightly better, so you still have to use the CPAP to sleep well. Oh, and one more thing, the surgery is essentially a matter of cutting or scraping or burning a portion of your airway which is unbearably painful. And, after the operation, our silly bodies, not understanding that cuttting a piece of it out is a good thing attempts to grow back, often growing scar tissue . Not a pretty picture.

Anyhow, my view of sleep apnea is that it is really a difficult problem which is far more widespread than most anyone knows which is essentially uncurable, but completely treatable. It is also a horrible condition to leave untreated because it tends to stress your body out in all sorts of ways, in addition to the effects of sustained sleep deprivation. 

An important thing to note is that everyone who has sleep apnea will snore when they sleep, but not everyone who snores has sleep apnea. Also, while being a guy, being fatter and being older are all factors in having sleep apnea, it effects women, skinny folks and young'uns on down to toddlers because it is related to the size of your pipes, which is essentially genetic. If you tend to have a small airway you're likely to either have or develop sleep apnea as you age and your airway muscles lose tone. If you have a hugely wide pipe, you can age, gain weight and be a male and never have a problem. Also, you really can't tell much about whether you have sleep apnea and how severe it is while you're awake.

I again commend all of us for being so open and helpful about a condition which could be considered embarrassing.

Happy FA


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## Ho Ho Tai

Happy FA said:


> I'm greatly heartened by the wealth of knowledge and experience available on the board regarding obstructive sleep apnea. . . .
> 
> [To which you, Happy FA, have just added a very substantial increment. I think that yours, and the other posts, taken together, could be the basis for a new user training manual. I don't think that my wife has seen as detailed experiential info on the apnea and CPAP user's board.]
> 
> Anyhow, my view of sleep apnea is that it is really a difficult problem which is far more widespread than most anyone knows which is essentially uncurable, but completely treatable. It is also a horrible condition to leave untreated because it tends to stress your body out in all sorts of ways, in addition to the effects of sustained sleep deprivation.
> 
> An important thing to note is that everyone who has sleep apnea will snore when they sleep, but not everyone who snores has sleep apnea. Also, while being a guy, being fatter and being older are all factors in having sleep apnea, it effects women, skinny folks and young'uns on down to toddlers because it is related to the size of your pipes, which is essentially genetic. If you tend to have a small airway you're likely to either have or develop sleep apnea as you age and your airway muscles lose tone. If you have a hugely wide pipe, you can age, gain weight and be a male and never have a problem. Also, you really can't tell much about whether you have sleep apnea and how severe it is while you're awake.
> 
> I again commend all of us for being so open and helpful about a condition which could be considered embarrassing.
> 
> Happy FA



I'm an older guy, with a bit more belly than is good for me, but I do exercise regularly. My wife tells me that, during the few moments when she is awake and I'm asleep, that I sometimes snore very lightly - a 'pussycat snore', she tells me. I don't know what the size of my pipe is, but if it is as big as my mouth . . .


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## BigBeautifulMe

Ho Ho Tai said:


> I am going to give you a brief synopsis of living with a woman who has sleep apnea.
> 
> Finally, about 5 years ago, a second test did qualify her for the CPAP gear. Of the available options, she chose the nasal pillows, which have worked fairly well. However, after reading this thread, we may investigate other devices for delivery.
> 
> Another complication arose after she got the CPAP - this concerning me. To use this gear, she could sleep only on her back. While she no longer snored, I had a problem falling asleep because I felt so isolated from her! It was as if she was off in her own world - almost like being in a coffin - and we were accustomed to falling asleep in some sort of cuddling position.



IMHO, nasal pillows truly are the most comfortable interfaces out there, Ho Ho. But if she likes sleeping on her stomach, and it makes you feel closer, there absolutely ARE interfaces out there that will let her do that. 

I'm a tried-and-true stomach sleeper - can't sleep any other way - and I use a mask called the TwilightNP, manufactured by Invacare. IMHO, it's the best nasal pillows system out there for stomach sleepers. Seriously - try it. The exhaust is positioned in such a way so that even when you stomach sleep, the exhaust ports are not blocked. It's great. You can probably get it from your local DME (durable medical equipment provider). If they can't get it for you, or they're going to charge you more than $100, this is where I bought mine: 

http://www.cpap.com/productpage.php?PNum=1717&PAID=215

If you buy the interface (it's $99, which is not bad at all for a CPAP interface) and, say, some extra filters that put you just over $100, you get free shipping, too.

This particular type of pillows interface can have slight problems with the nasal pillows not sitting close enough to the nose for some people (that's true for me, too). The fix for this is very easy (and can also be used for any other mask with which this same problem occurs):

Take a pair of women's tights (not just pantyhose, but tights - they're more elastic than regular pantyhose). Cut off a leg. Use that leg to pull the mask closer to your face, then tie it behind your head. You can tie it however you like, but I like to use a doublestart knot, which is just putting one end under the other, like you were about to start tying your shoes - but doing that twice. You can find a diagram here: http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/doublestartknot.htm . Trust me - this works BEAUTIFULLY.


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## BigBeautifulMe

I agree totally with 90% of what you said, HappyFA - just two things you said that I wanted to comment on:



Happy FA said:


> However, I have on occasion had a bit of a problem when either the power has gone out in my house or the hose has pulled free from the machine and no pressure is being pushed into the mask and my face. Of course I've woken up each of those times and the problem has gone away.
> 
> I've never met anyone who has used a full face mask, but I have spoken to some who have used a chin strap which tends to keep your mouth closed and they've said they prefer that to the full face mask.



Just FYI - they do now make battery backups for CPAPs (depending on which make and model you have). Also, you can use the same kind of power backup that they make for computers (I think it's called a UPS backup? I'm blanking momentarily, but I can check if anyone's interested. I'm fairly certain that's what they are). Either will enable you to get through the night with a power outage.

As far as chin straps go, most people find them to be fairly ineffective. You can still blow air out between your teeth and lips, even with your jaw kept shut by a chin strap. The two options people use most on the CPAP board I frequent are the full face mask and taping. Taping sounds scary - but it's worth it. I've done it when I thought I was mouth-leaking. Doctors don't recommend this as it's a liability issue for them to do so (if you have a tendency to get so drunk you vomit in your sleep, you don't want to do this). But all you do is just buy some medical tape (I like Johnson & Johnson 1" waterproof tape), tear off two strips that are wide enough to cover your mouth side-to-side, then overlap them to make a big rectangle. Tuck your lips into you mouth, then place the tape over it. That'll keep you from mouth-breathing. 

Full face masks are less complicated and less risky for people with vomit issues, but harder to get comfortable with for stomach or side sleepers.

It's important, though, that HOWEVER you do it, you take care of ANY mouth leaks/mouth breathing. When you let air escape or breathe through your mouth, you are letting out the pressurized air, and so are not getting your full pressure. You're not getting the treatment you were prescribed, and so your health will suffer.


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## NFA

I wish I could rep you more, BigBeautifulMe, for your contribution in this thread. Really, this whole thread is invaluable. Sleep Apnea came seem really scary and the treatment really overwhelming, but the this is a problem which can be effectively treated and that treatment can be a comfortable part of everyone's life. It really is so important. This thread can literally be a life saver and I just want to commend everyone who has provided useful advice here. You can get effective treatment for Sleep Apnea right now. You don't need to lose weight to sleep better.


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## BigBeautifulMe

Thanks, NFA.  I do the same thing over on my CPAP board - It is SO important if you have apnea to be compliant with your treatment (and so dangerous NOT to be), and people can find that challenging for so many reasons. I just want to give something back, since it was the advice of people on that CPAP board that got me the help I needed to be compliant. It has changed my life; I want to give that gift to others as well.


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## NFA

I've seen the impact compliance can have, myself, and it really does change your life. An ex of mine was very wary of using her machine and downright refused to use it around me for fear of what I'd think. I'm grateful I helped convince her that I really didn't care. Indeed, I wanted her to use the machine. She felt so much better using the machine. You will feel rested, alert, and energized. Your quality of life will be so improved and it has nothing to do with the numbers on the scale. You won't even be able to appreciate how good you can feel until you are feeling it for yourself.

I've also seen how dangerous Apnea can be if a person doesn't do what they need to do. A good friend of mine lost her roommate to apnea about a year ago. The stakes are high and the rewards of treatment are immeasurable. On both counts, compliance with treatment like using a CPAP machine can change your life and save your life. I hope everyone reading will see that they can make using a CPAP machine a part of their life if that's what they need. It doesn't make you scary or bad. Its not impossible to use. Everyone can do it and everyone should do it.


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## BigBeautifulMe

I totally agree, NFA.

Actually, I look at it as a screening device for boyfriends. If they can't handle the CPAP (after learning how critical it is for my life/health), they obviously don't care about me, and it's easy to kick 'em to the curb.


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## Happy FA

I thank you for your commentary. I am aware of the ability to have a backup system, but hadn't gotten my act together to deal with that situation. However a UPS(uninterruptible power supply) is not a good idea if you've ever had one for two reasons. One, the power needs of the CPAP is too great(draws too much current) and, when the power goes off the UPS makes a loud warning sound which sort of kills the concept of sleeping continuously. However, there are systems based on using an indoor version of a marine/car type battery which has enough juice for at least one full night.

On the chin strap/full mask thing. I've never needed either, and was speaking from what I'd heard and not from personal experience. This is clearly an area where YMMV is the key. What works for someone else may not work for you and its important to take control of your treatment of sleep apnea so that it works for you.

I found your comments about your use of CPAP being a gating function in the dating wars. Yes, if a guy can sleep with Darth Vader its only because he really digs you and isn't put off by the oddness of your machine and mask. Bravo to you for being so up front and positive about doing what is good for your health


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## BigBeautifulMe

Actually, there are many people on the board I frequent that use UPS systems for backup, and have no problems with them. I'll have to ask what kind they use and post it here.


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## BigBeautifulMe

Here's one of the many responses I received from people who use UPS backup:

"The newer CPAP units will draw around a 100W or so of energy when they are not running a humidifier. It is fairly straight forward to support at least a few hours of operation at this power level with moderately priced UPS.

If you need humdification, the power need (Watts) goes up substantially, so the time the UPS will support operation goes down.

You need to figure out what sort of power outage ypou wan to be "protected" against, and form there you can go on to decide what sort of UPS might be useful for you.

In all but the most basic UPSs, any "alarms" can usually be disabled through configuration options on the UPS."

There you go.


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## Ho Ho Tai

BigBeautifulMe said:


> I'm a tried-and-true stomach sleeper - can't sleep any other way - and I use a mask called the TwilightNP, manufactured by Invacare. IMHO, it's the best nasal pillows system out there for stomach sleepers. Seriously - try it. The exhaust is positioned in such a way so that even when you stomach sleep, the exhaust ports are not blocked. It's great. You can probably get it from your local DME (durable medical equipment provider). If they can't get it for you, or they're going to charge you more than $100, this is where I bought mine:
> 
> http://www.cpap.com/productpage.php?PNum=1717&PAID=215
> 
> If you buy the interface (it's $99, which is not bad at all for a CPAP interface) and, say, some extra filters that put you just over $100, you get free shipping, too.
> 
> This particular type of pillows interface can have slight problems with the nasal pillows not sitting close enough to the nose for some people (that's true for me, too). The fix for this is very easy (and can also be used for any other mask with which this same problem occurs):
> 
> Take a pair of women's tights (not just pantyhose, but tights - they're more elastic than regular pantyhose). Cut off a leg. Use that leg to pull the mask closer to your face, then tie it behind your head. You can tie it however you like, but I like to use a doublestart knot, which is just putting one end under the other, like you were about to start tying your shoes - but doing that twice. You can find a diagram here: http://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/doublestartknot.htm . Trust me - this works BEAUTIFULLY.



Thanks, BigBeautifulMe. I have relayed this to Mrs. Ho Ho (yes, there really is a Mrs. Ho Ho and I hope to get her to post her experiences here as well.) She has had increasing problems with her nasal pillows and the whole set up. She is contemplating other solutions, and this mayh be one of them. 

She will normally fall asleep within a few minutes of putting on the mask, or even just lying down w/o the mask. But if she lays there for much longer, with the mask on, she will get very uncomfortable and tear the thing off. She will also do this in the middle of the night at times, but is usually too groggy to realize it. I will wake up to the sounds of her snoring, and the mask hissing away. This is not a fun time for me because, as loving as she is, she can get a bit cranky in that half-awake state; yet it is better for both of us if I can cajole her gently into replacing the mask, than to wake her fully.

I think that Happy FA put his finger on one of the problems: simply keeping more regular hours, and getting to bed early enough for a good night's sleep. We are up promptly at 6 am during her work week, yet seldom head for the sack before midnight. On weekends, I'm usually up by 6:30 and will let her sleep in until she is ready to rise - usually 10 am or so.

So, as HFA points out, it isn't just the quality of sleep that counts - it's the quantity too.

But when do you attend to all that e-mail?

That shoelace website is neat! Just one question: where do you get those yellow and blue shoelaces??


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## Russell Williams

I have used one for several years.

I have a device that allows me to use it when I pull over and take a nap in the car.

If my nose is clogged up the cpap will usually clear it if I let the machine blow air in my nose and out my mouth.

I sleep so much better.

I have been able to blow long but not powerful rassberrys.

I have been trying to do long whistles by letting the are come in my nose and out my mouth but i have not yet mastered that skill.

On cold nights I can put my whole head under the covers and I do not get CO2 buildup. 

It is nice an warm and snugly under all the covers wearing the Cpap.

A bit hard to use it while sleeping on an airplane.

Russell Williams


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