# FA Guilt



## Mini

You knew it was coming, and it might as well be started by the dude who says unpopular shit anyway. 

So, yeah. I think we all know what I mean. How do you deal with it? Do you even feel it?

Me, personally, it's oftentimes the kind of cognitive dissonance that I frown upon in *every* other aspect of my life. I *know* that the "epidemic" is a lot of hype, and I *know* that being overweight - a bullshit term in and of itself - isn't the death sentence it's made out to be, but I also know that there are relatively few super-sized persons in the old folks home, and that there are health risks associated with being, well, quite large.

And yet I'm attracted to it, and I can't help it, and I'll be damned if it doesn't bug the shit out of me sometimes.


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## The Orange Mage

Same. It's a little guilt, some hopelessness, and some anger for me. Anger for being inexplicably hard-wired to liking supersized women, and the guilt and hopelessness at the fact that even though some women like themselves that way there's reminders like that one thread on the Main board where half the women would take the skinny pill and almost everyone would want to be X pounds lighter, where X is at least 50. Not to mention the even-more-hopeless weight gain fantasies with which I am "afflicted."

It's like following a complicated flowchart for twenty-some steps, and the end result of the path you take is "you're fucked." You can skip back a few steps and try for a better ending but meh.


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## Haunted

Kali and i have discussed this ad nauseam, I think i drive her nuts with it. and it's not just guilt about loving her size, it's also guilt about objectifying her and her fat. I don't want her to feel like it's only about teh fatness. and she doesn't, but when i get on a tare, her beauty and her body really do a number on me and it turns into a frenzy almost lol. one thing that helped me understand that it's not just about size was when i went back through some older pics when she was smaller and my feelings and desires where just as strong. i think a large part of this is the kid in the candy store angle again, I am finally in a place where it's ok to like what i like and she is more than ok with it. She usually just tells me to "Shut up and enjoy it. if it feels could how can it be wrong" But i still feel giulty about it a little it's an odd feeling


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## Tad

Thanks for starting the thread.

My take: you have to let your partner have their way. Let them know what you like, but that you'll support them in everything, and that no matter what you _like_, you _need _them to take care of themselves, and you'll always help them do that. 

Discipline may not be as sexy as indulgence, but indulgence is usually best enjoyed in small batches, sadly, IMO. 

But having said all that, you are dead right about the cognitive dissonance, and what a pain it is.


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## Esther

Yeah, thanks for starting this thread. I was kinda waiting for one.

I often feel very, very guilty about my preferences to the point of severe anxiety; but I'm this sort of person in general. (Beat myself up over damn near everything). The guilt is the main reason I don't talk about my sexuality very much: as much as I acknowledge that the "obesity epidemic" is a lot of hype, as was stated above, most of the big people I know are plagued with self-esteem issues as well as with aches, pains, and various health problems. I realize this isn't always the case, but the big people I know (including my man) have got it pretty rough. It is very, very difficult for me to come out and say, "I am attracted to fat people and weight gain" then, because I know I'd get my throat ripped out. "How can you sexually objectify something which puts them through so much misery?" I feel like such a terrible person for being less attracted to my man when he loses weight in order to combat his health problems.
It sucks.


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## imfree

Mini said:


> You knew it was coming, and it might as well be started by the dude who says unpopular shit anyway.
> 
> So, yeah. I think we all know what I mean. How do you deal with it? Do you even feel it?
> 
> Me, personally, it's oftentimes the kind of cognitive dissonance that I frown upon in *every* other aspect of my life. I *know* that the "epidemic" is a lot of hype, and I *know* that being overweight - a bullshit term in and of itself - isn't the death sentence it's made out to be, but I also know that there are relatively few super-sized persons in the old folks home, and that there are health risks associated with being, well, quite large.
> 
> And yet I'm attracted to it, and I can't help it, and I'll be damned if it doesn't bug the shit out of me sometimes.



I'm really with you on the guilt issue. I've never actually encouraged
a woman to gain to extreme obesity, but I'd be lying if I said that I
haven't found the idea exciting in the past. Reality is a very powerful,
undeniable wake up call because I've read about many great women
we have lost because of fat obsession. No person's life should have
a lower value than the person's sexual attractiveness, regardless of
which fetish or obsession is operative. I had to walk away from fat
obsession to get peace of mind. Do I still adore fat women? Yes, I do, 
but I wouldn't even encourage a woman to gain to the level of obesity
that I am obviously surviving.


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## Carrie

God, I love this forum. This is such an important topic. 

From a superfatty's point of view, the subject of FA guilt is sort of the ultimate catch-22. I mean, who _doesn't_ want a partner who possesses the emotional sensitivity to worry about this kind of stuff? I understand, absolutely, where the guilt comes from. Without even touching the topic of how fat does - or doesn't - affect health, the simple fact is that life as a fat person is just really effing hard, physically and emotionally. You can love and respect your body and be a confident, sexual, well-adjusted fat person, but some days are still just awful and you feel like saying, "okay, screw this, I hate being fat." That's just how it goes. So I understand the guilt that comes from desiring something that can be a hardship to the person carrying it, I do. And like I said, I absolutely appreciate a partner who is caring enough to think about it, and worry about it. But on the other hand, the thought of being the source of guilt for my (theoretical) partner makes me absolutely cringe. The last thing I want is for someone to feel badly for finding my fat body sexy, you know? I don't feel guilty about _being_ fat, so why should you feel guilty about liking my fat? 

So I don't know. There has to be a happy medium somewhere, but I'm not sure where it lies. I will say that while it's certainly worthy of consideration and thought, _obsessing_ about it is likely to drive you and your fat partner crazy. I also think that while of course, there are some beautiful women out there who've gained on purpose, most of us probably haven't, so keep in mind that we were probably fat for a long time before we knew you and probably will be fat for a long time, so there's not much of a point in worrying _too_ much about the effect or morality of your preference for fat people and how it affects us. It just.... is.


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## Ben from England

I have always felt it tremendously. It's what stopped me from wanting to be active in the community earlier. As much as I love fat girls, it's the pin that bursts the bubble when a friend notes that it must suck to be attracted to something that is essentially a detriment to the person you love’s life. 

A few hits from the never ending guilt list:

- The simple fact that I am attracted to bigger girls. I can be as supportive as all hell, my partner can know that I am along for the ride 100%, but it sucks for them to know that substantial weight loss will lead to me being less physically attracted. And there is flat out nothing I can do about this. I feel like I am obligated to be honest about this fact, but feel awful for them having to know it. 

- I hate constantly trying to figure out how I should behave when it comes to anything weight related. If I know a partner wants to lose weight, but then reaches for ice cream, do I comment? If I tell them not to worry about it am I enabling? 

- When I hear 'Oh my God, I hate being this size.' comments, it stings as an FA, cos I like them at that size and don't particularly want to be attracted to something someone hates about themselves. I want to be available and open, but there is a point where I feel like saying 'well, either do something or stop complaining about it'. I know life isn't that simple. 

- I don't understand why FA's are met with hostility, as though it undermines their FA credentials or something, when they say they would be willing to date a skinny girl if they really liked them even if they weren't predisposed to be attracted to them, and then are met with equal hostility for being superficial when they say they are only attracted to a girl of a certain size. 

- It's an awful thing to face the fact that the reason the person you like is attractive to you may be because of an unhealthy relationship with food. That part of what you like may come fron a 'disorder' in that person. One they would be better off without. 

...and the list goes on.

I guess, just like fat people have down fat days, there are days I totally resent carrying this all around, and if there were an FA cure to go along with that fat pill, I would take it. I honestly don't think i will ever really find a resolution. I try not to dwell on it. I remind myself that I am not a bad person because I am attracted to fat women. 

As a side note, one more interesting, (gasp) postive thing I thought of whilst reflecting on this. I am not a pro-fat cheerleading FA. I acknowledge the implications being fat brings with it. I myself was fat once. I really didn't like it that much, I think mostly for the wrong reasons, and took severe measure to not be fat. I am still coming to terms with liking my body. There is still a deeply embedded part of me that, through years of having it drilled into my head, believes that being fat is bad and a moral failing. It's like I understand my thinking is wrong, but don't know how to reprogram. Despite the internal conflict, I actually appreciate being an FA when it comes to this, because it has led me down a path toward self acceptance I fear I wouldn't have bothered with otherwise. I would have spent my life, brainwashed, in a gym, counting calories fighting my body. Instead, thanks to finding the size acceptance community as an adjunct of my sexuality, I am slowly moving toward it being less of an issue.


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## rollhandler

Esther said:


> Yeah, thanks for starting this thread. I was kinda waiting for one.
> 
> I often feel very, very guilty about my preferences to the point of severe anxiety; but I'm this sort of person in general. (Beat myself up over damn near everything). The guilt is the main reason I don't talk about my sexuality very much: as much as I acknowledge that the "obesity epidemic" is a lot of hype, as was stated above, most of the big people I know are plagued with self-esteem issues as well as with aches, pains, and various health problems. I realize this isn't always the case, but the big people I know (including my man) have got it pretty rough. It is very, very difficult for me to come out and say, "I am attracted to fat people and weight gain" then, because I know I'd get my throat ripped out. "How can you sexually objectify something which puts them through so much misery?" I feel like such a terrible person for being less attracted to my man when he loses weight in order to combat his health problems.
> It sucks.



I don't suffer the guilt of my preference nor do I feel the need to answer for it, but I do understand the self esteem issues from both sides of the fence. I can almost understand why some stay closeted, after living my entire life out of it. It seems that its just as battering the the ego and self esteem to be an (F)FA and out as it is to be the object of our desire. That almost sounds like the topic of another post so I'll stop the ramble and move on.
Rollhandler


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## rollhandler

Ben from England said:


> I have always felt it tremendously. It's what stopped me from wanting to be active in the community earlier. As much as I love fat girls, it's the pin that bursts the bubble when a friend notes that it must suck to be attracted to something that is essentially a detriment to the person you loves life.
> 
> A few hits from the never ending guilt list:
> 
> - The simple fact that I am attracted to bigger girls. I can be as supportive as all hell, my partner can know that I am along for the ride 100%, but it sucks for them to know that substantial weight loss will lead to me being less physically attracted. And there is flat out nothing I can do about this. I feel like I am obligated to be honest about this fact, but feel awful for them having to know it.
> 
> - I hate constantly trying to figure out how I should behave when it comes to anything weight related. If I know a partner wants to lose weight, but then reaches for ice cream, do I comment? If I tell them not to worry about it am I enabling?
> 
> - When I hear 'Oh my God, I hate being this size.' comments, it stings as an FA, cos I like them at that size and don't particularly want to be attracted to something someone hates about themselves. I want to be available and open, but there is a point where I feel like saying 'well, either do something or stop complaining about it'. I know life isn't that simple.
> 
> - I don't understand why FA's are met with hostility, as though it undermines their FA credentials or something, when they say they would be willing to date a skinny girl if they really liked them even if they weren't predisposed to be attracted to them, and then are met with equal hostility for being superficial when they say they are only attracted to a girl of a certain size.
> 
> - It's an awful thing to face the fact that the reason the person you like is attractive to you may be because of an unhealthy relationship with food. That part of what you like may come fron a 'disorder' in that person. One they would be better off without.
> 
> ...and the list goes on.
> 
> I guess, just like fat people have down fat days, there are days I totally resent carrying this all around, and if there were an FA cure to go along with that fat pill, I would take it. I honestly don't think i will ever really find a resolution. I try not to dwell on it. I remind myself that I am not a bad person because I am attracted to fat women.



Wow here I sit calmly typing to one post about not feeling the guilt for my preference, but when I post it and continue reading on I find the next post turns my previous work into an absolute lie.

I can relate to all of this that Ben has written but never equated it to a guilty feeling of preference. But, I guess theres not much else to call it.

I too have felt the catch 22 of health vs desires in a partner and dealt with the emotional baggage that comes from her wanting to please me but knowing that she wont be as appealing at a much smaller size and the worry that I would leave as a result of her being smaller. 

I have felt the pull in both directions of her wanting to diet and the support of which I cannot muster for her efforts to help her in her desire to do so, beyond the point of letting her know that it is ok to diet if she wants to. 

I get met with the catch 22 of being a flag waver as well and wanting tell her how beautiful she is but having to censor how I do so because she may be offended if the wrong terminology is used. 

I have felt fully the guilt of having a bbw/ssbbw and having her question the fact that I find her attractive when she sees the girls that turn my head which are ineveitably even larger than she is although "I" know that those are only the ones shes notices my head turn for because i dont "not" turn my head for the smaller fat girls any less. 

Thanks Ben for that reality check!
Rollhandler


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## Santaclear

I see no reason for FAs to feel guilty. Why should we feel guilty for having good taste? :smitten: (I use the smiley but I am serious.)

A person's health is ultimately his or her own responsibility. If you're feeding your partner to illness or death, then, yeah, that's guilty, but otherwise....being supportive, loving and positive is the biggest part of what it's about.

I don't agree at all that it's hard to be an FA. I feel we're *privileged*, that we've got a lucky secret maybe the rest of the world doesn't know about (yet!) and that fat people and FAs are lucky to find each other. :wubu::wubu:


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## Judge_Dre

I don't feel that us fat admirers must feel guilty about our desires. The whole fat=unhealthy argument never swayed me away from my attraction to large women. It seems to me its just another way for mainstream society to make us feel abnormal about what we like. While some people blame mass media for girls being anorexic, no one ever blames guys who like skinny girls. Likewise, girls who like guys with muscles aren't given guilt trips for encouraging steroid abuse.


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## AnnMarie

Good discussion everyone, glad you're having it. 

I agree with Carrie, strongly, on the "I don't feel guilty for being fat, so please don't feel guilty for liking me fat."

I could go into more from the fatty POV, but won't without invite. I don't want to crash the discussion or change the focus by telling you "not" to feel what you feel.


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## Ben from England

Santaclear said:


> A person's health is ultimately his or her own responsibility. If you're feeding your partner to illness or death, then, yeah, that's guilty, but otherwise....being supportive, loving and positive is the biggest part of what it's about.



I don't think it's that black and white. There are a lot of ways to undermine someone’s effort to change or subtly, sometimes even subconsciously, encourage or enable in a way that doesn't look out for a partners long term best interests, instead getting wrapped up in denial motivated by sexual proclivities. (Maybe it's worth exploring what it exaclty is to be supportive, loving and positive in a different thread.) 



Judge_Dre said:


> I don't feel that us fat admirers must feel guilty about our desires. The whole fat=unhealthy argument never swayed me away from my attraction to large women. It seems to me its just another way for mainstream society to make us feel abnormal about what we like.



I read something on a blog recently that I thought had made a valid point fairly well-

_The truth is... yes, society over-exaggerates and inflates the health risks with being obese. It way over demonizes them.

But then, the movements that are there to solve this injustice, do the opposite, and just spread the opposite misinformation.

What worries me as a supporter of fat acceptance movements is that... A lot of them are actually working against the establishment taking them seriously. Why? Because you have these kooks who come out and claim that the laws of biology, chemistry and physics do not apply, just to prove a point.

Goverment: Gain 10 pounds = die (now fear the fat!)
Movement: There is absolutely no health risk to being obese, at all. Period, and anyone who says it, is shaming obese people.

We all know we need fat acceptance in this society, but lets not get it at the cost of truth._

The reasons I feel bad about being an FA sometimes have nothing to do with the fact that the mainstream ideal of beauty is different than mine. It has to do with the consequences of what I find beautiful experienced by the people I'm attracted to. FA's shouldn't be ashamed of who they are, but burying your head in the sand and rejecting anything that kills your hard on isn't the way forward either.

Anne Marie, I would be interested in hearing a BBW's point of view on all this ruckus.


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## CCC

This topic just rocked my world, in a bad way. I was seriously about to go cry myself to sleep with a newly guilt-ridden conscience.

But then I read Santaclear's and Dre's posts. While I'm *not* saying "If FAs don't love BBWs then who will?" I can't see how the existence of a segment of the population that loves bigger women could have a net negative effect on those bigger women. Of course enabling and dangerous feeder situations would be a different story, but any halfway decent man who respects his partner for more than her body would never exploit her for purely sexual reasons or try to circumvent her wishes to be whatever size she wants to be. If you argue that the average FA would not take steps to help his SO lose weight (and therefore become healthier, according to popular opinion), well, you're probably right, but I fail to see how anything so positively non-malicious would be a cause for guilt. But maybe I'm just not experienced enough.



Ben from England said:


> FA's shouldn't be ashamed of who they are, but burying your head in the sand and rejecting anything that kills your hard on isn't the way forward either.



Certainly not. But again, any reflective and realistic man (person, really) with a decent amount of common sense wouldn't buy into the "propoganda" of either side. We see the consequences of being overweight every day (societally and biologically), but the ever-strong bias of society is definitely observable as well. We just have to take the facts as a whole; _nothing_ is ever black and white.


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## superodalisque

CCC said:


> This topic just rocked my world, in a bad way. I was seriously about to go cry myself to sleep with a newly guilt-ridden conscience.
> 
> But then I read Santaclear's and Dre's posts. While I'm *not* saying "If FAs don't love BBWs then who will?" I can't see how the existence of a segment of the population that loves bigger women could have a net negative effect on those bigger women. Of course enabling and dangerous feeder situations would be a different story, but any halfway decent man who respects his partner for more than her body would never exploit her for purely sexual reasons or try to circumvent her wishes to be whatever size she wants to be. If you argue that the average FA would not take steps to help his SO lose weight (and therefore become healthier, according to popular opinion), well, you're probably right, but I fail to see how anything so positively non-malicious would be a cause for guilt. But maybe I'm just not experienced enough.
> 
> 
> 
> Certainly not. But again, any reflective and realistic man (person, really) with a decent amount of common sense wouldn't buy into the "propoganda" of either side. We see the consequences of being overweight every day (societally and biologically), but the ever-strong bias of society is definitely observable as well. We just have to take the facts as a whole; _nothing_ is ever black and white.



i think to avoid feeling guilty FAs have to be careful not to internalize the blame some women would like to lay on them. some hate thier fat and really can't see how you'd love it. a lot of people are very good at hiding the fact or its subconscious with them. a BBWs issue with food is her issue. some people who do have a food addiction actively seek out an enabler and then blame them for the result. thats why for your own mental health its a good idea to take your time and find a woman who truly likes her weight and the rest of life as well. you have to be careful about choosing someone who does not like it and blames her weight and you for everything going wrong in her life. you can't make a woman love it. its her thing. she shouldn't make you responsible for her entire life. if she puts you in that position its probably not really about you at all. she just needs someone to set up for the blame game. a woman has a choice in everything that she does. a grown woman takes responsibility for that. be careful not to let people guilt you out just for loving and desiring them as they are. your right, there is nothing wrong with finding someone attractive.


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## Dr. P Marshall

Oh Mini, you must have read my mind today. I can't believe you beat me "the guilt maven" to creating this thread. I've been pretty open about the nature of my guilt in the past, so I thought I'd address the question of how I deal with it. I would be lying if I said I was 100% over the FA guilt issue, but I'm about 80% there and these two points made by the brilliant Carrie:wubu: are two ideas that, once I realized them for myself, really helped me come to terms with the guilt and put it in perspective. 


Carrie said:


> But on the other hand, the thought of being the source of guilt for my (theoretical) partner makes me absolutely cringe..... .......
> 
> I also think that while of course, there are some beautiful women out there who've gained on purpose, most of us probably haven't, so keep in mind that we were probably fat for a long time before we knew you and probably will be fat for a long time....



The BBW/BHM of this board have helped me a great deal with my guilt issues because, for the most part, they seem to express the feeling that FAs shouldn't feel guilty or as guilty as we do. I have also noticed that BBW/BHM who are in relationships with FAs(or have been in the past) are often some of the most vocal supporters of ALL FAs. In my opinion, they would know best whether or not a good FA is a good thing. (A BBW in a PM introduced me to the phrase "FA admirer" and I must admit that made me smile for a long time.  ) At the end of the day, most of us(whatever our size) are probably happiest knowing that the person we're with wouldn't change a thing about us. (I'm not saying only FAs can feel this way about a fat person, by the way). I think we need to substitute FA guilt with FA...let's call it compassion. There will be frustrations and ambivalence for many fat people, but as Ben so brilliantly pointed out, FA guilt is the FA version of that same ambivalence. I think the key is to be understanding and sensitive when the occasion calls for it(for example, know when and when not to say that something is a turn on), but to not automatically take the fat person's bad moments as an affront to our identity as FAs. EVERYONE has good and bad days and ambivalence about aspects of themselves sometimes. It rarely means that they wish their partner didn't like them as they are, or that they feel there is something wrong with their partner for loving them and being attracted to them. I think the right FA and the right fat person can be a truly wonderful pairing. 



Mini said:


> I *know* that the "epidemic" is a lot of hype, and I *know* that being overweight - a bullshit term in and of itself - isn't the death sentence it's made out to be, but I also know that there are relatively few super-sized persons in the old folks home, and that there are health risks associated with being, well, quite large.


I have a range, but I prefer men over 300 in general, so believe me, this is where the big hang up in getting over the guilt is for me. I think about this a lot. BUT I also have recently come to the conclusion that life is far too short to let all of the what ifs and guilty feelings keep us as FAs from finding the BBW or BHM who is right for us. It seems a shame that the very sensitivity and thoughtfulness that would make an FA a good partner is often the very thing that paralyzes us and keeps us from seeking happiness with the right person. No one knows how long we have on this earth, and life really is all too short for everyone, and there could be a lot more happy FA/fat person pairings out there if a lot of the sensitive FAs learned to deal with our guilt better and put it in perspective. That's just my opinion though.

And I admit, being a weight gain fetishist, I have some added baggage, but a friend of mine outside the SA movement gave me a reality check once. He is not an FA, nor is he fat, but he has known me a long time and when I unburdened myself to him about my guilt and fears about my fetish he basically said to me "don't you believe you have any self control whatsoever?" He makes a good point. I can't help what I think or feel, but I can control entirely what I do. So when something that disturbs me goes through my head, I just remind myself that I would NEVER do anything to harm someone I cared for, nor would I engage in any activity that made them unhappy, unhealthy or in any way diminished the quality of their life. It's really about trusting yourself to find balance and boundaries. My friend also pointed out that non FAs and non fetishists have fantasies that they would never act on, or act out completely as well. Turns out, it's just part of being human.



Ben from England said:


> BRILLIANT AND AMAZING POST


This post of Ben's is, in my opinion, one of the most articulate explanations of the conflict of FA guilt I have seen on these boards. :bow:

*this was my 1000th post, it seemed fitting it should be about FA guilt


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## CCC

Dr. P Marshall said:


> he basically said to me "don't you believe you have any self control whatsoever?" He makes a good point. I can't help what I think or feel, but I can control entirely what I do. So when something that disturbs me goes through my head, I just remind myself that I would NEVER do anything to harm someone I cared for, nor would I engage in any activity that made them unhappy, unhealthy or in any way diminished the quality of their life. It's really about trusting yourself to find balance and boundaries. My friend also pointed out that non FAs and non fetishists have fantasies that they would never act on, or act out completely as well. Turns out, it's just part of being human.



I think that was I was trying to get at, if only in a less eloquent way. As long as we follow our moral compasses and respect each other as human beings, it's a lot harder to feel guilty.


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## Durin

There is a thread from the BHM/FFA board where I was struggling with the fact that my wife pointed to me as the reason she has trouble losing weight.

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56560

I don't know wheather I am the reason or not but it is hard not to feel attacked at times for your very attraction. 

As far as Guilt in my mind there is always going to be X amount of people that will always be fat. Why would I throw away any happiness I or the Fat Person could have by letting some nebulous guilt interfere. As long as you are respecting your SO boundaries then I think there is not much room for guilt.

It's hard as an FA when your parter decides to lose some weight or even have WLS. I told my wife before we were married, because she wanted to lose some weight then for health reasons that as long as she didn't fall below a size 16 it wouldn't be a problem. 

Today I told her that I would eat only healthier food with her, although I will not eat those little shrinkwraped pieces of #$%^$. But no more junky food at home ect.


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## Paquito

I know I feel a lot of guilt for my preferences, and they are very similiar to what Dr. P discussed (the whole weight gain fetish thing).

Without going into a lot of detail (saving that for a rainy day), I've desired having a mutual gaining relationship with a woman. However, I know that I would have zero self control, and that being in a relationship like that would be destructive for me and her. Which is why it will always remain a fantasy for me, I could not handle the slippery slope. And I feel immense guilt for liking something that could be potentially unhealthy for my partner and could harm them in the long run just because it's something that turns me on.

So yea, FA guilt.
*Check off list*


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## Eclectic_Girl

This is such a great board!

I loved your articulate post, Ben, and agree with Carrie that such sensitivity and reflectiveness are admirable qualities.

Here are a few of my thoughts (I realize that I'm not AnnMarie, but I am an FA-appreciating fatty):

- My being fat is not because of anyone else but me. My issues with food, my dieting history, my attachment of positive or negative values to being fat, my genetic predisposition. Not my partner's. My guy didn't make me fat, but I'm awfully glad he appreciates that I am! As AnnMarie often says, I'm going to be eating cupcakes anyway, so if it turns him on, more power to him! My fat will still be there, regardless.

- I realize that my partner would find me less attractive if I suddenly lost a whole bunch of weight. However, that is profoundly unlikely to happen, barring some horrific illness. It was hard enough to lose a little all those times back when I was trying to, that I hardly think it would just drop off me by surprise now. If, by some strange turn of events I did lose a lot of weight, I would expect it to affect his attraction - but not his love for me, which should be based on more than that. And I would hope that we would be able to discuss it openly with each other.

- I *am*, however, mindful of my health and mobility, which is why I exercise to increase/maintain flexibility and stamina and try to eat healthy foods. But only the ones that I like, and I'm not depriving myself of "junky" foods when I want them. Again, not to lose weight, but to fuel and maintain this body that both I and my partner love and to enable me to do as much as I can physically for as long as I can. I came to this place of moderation and sanity by trial and error through a lot of crazy-making extremes, though, so I understand the folks who are still on the teeter-totter.

Your worries about supporting/enabling weight loss/gain are well-founded - dealing with a dieting fatty is an emotional minefield! So avoid comment either way if you can help it: let your partner make her own decisions and find her own balance. If she wants and asks for your input, be honest (including about your discomfort with not knowing how to help). You can be supportive of her without taking a stand on what you think she should do.

- It's no fun being with someone who is constantly down on themselves, for whatever reason. If someone has self-esteem issues surrounding fat, the core problem is the self-esteem, not the fat. The self-esteem you can bolster: point her in the direction of fat-positive resources and communities with role models for being fat and happy. If she's still miserable all the time, have you considered that she might be a fundamentally miserable person? Or that she actually enjoys the attention she gets from it? It's your call as to whether the positives of the relationship outweigh the negatives, but you're unlikely to change her. She has to do that herself.

- A note on "fat and happy": as Carrie mentioned above, even if you are generally well-adjusted, some days it will suck to be fat. Some days, everything feels like it takes more effort than it should and everything in the world is uncomfortably small. If your partner is letting you see how much those days suck, it's actually a good thing - she's being real with you. Confident is not the same as bulletproof. Be understanding. It will pass.


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## Mini

Thanks for the posts, everyone. This is exactly what I was hoping for. 

And A-M, please, I'd love to hear your take, and anyone else's, for that matter.


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## Mathias

This is a big reason why it took me awhile until I told my preference to family and friends. I was worried that they'd ask "What are you going to do if she decides to lose weight? Are you just going to leave her?" I still don't know how I'd answer those questions.


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## Bafta1

I love this forum!

I feel terrible guilt for being an FA, mainly because it's something that causes me to feel very, very, very lonely. I live in a country where there are literally no fat people. It sounds weird, right? An FA living in a place where he'll never find a partner. Being alone, and never seeing anyone who draws my eye makes me feel like a freak. I hate the loneliness this has brought me.

And then there are the arguments I have with my family... They desperately want to see me "happy and settled". They know about my preference, and yet they don't accept it at all. I don't even talk about it with them anymore because they dismiss it and make me feel as though I have some kind of problem.

And then there are the arguments I have with myself. I get cross with myself for destroying my own happiness. I get angry for making such a huge deal about only finding big women attractive. I accept invitations to dates, and feel terrible when I can't be honest with the girl when I tell her why I can't see her again; how can you begin to tell someone that they just aren't fat enough for you? What kind of hang up is that??? 

And then there are the moments when you do fantasize about having a partner you find attractive, and you know that the thing you find attractive would be bad for her health. Someone here said that there are so few big women who are happy with their size; so how can I want something that's going to cause someone else's misery?

I'm so tired of battling with all these thoughts and this loneliness. I just want to be happy.


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## exile in thighville

This probably isn't the discussion Mini intended/wanted to have, but I blanch whenever a community member passes away and the same thing happened with Cindy, r.i.p.. I'll get over myself, but as an FA and a feeder I'm always filled with doubt and self-loathing the way society wants me to, and against my better instincts I tremble with the idea that I'm responsible in some way. Mind you, I certainly don't live my life in fear and I know fat people can be healthy. But I lose faith in crisis mode, question my beliefs every time and feel like shit. There are times when I want to believe what I already know and can barely bring myself.


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## SoliloquyOfaSiren

I think there has to be some form of guilt within all of us FA/FFA, unless you happen to be heavier as well. Or as the feeding fetish is concerned, a mutual gainer. 

And as for the guilt factor is concerned, for me it is that I like this and though I have been much heavier in the past and being that I'm younger and more naive than many members here, I don't truly know how it is. I can imagine....but I can't KNOW. So for me to like this and take pleasure in expressing my love for it, yes I do feel a twinge of guilt at moments.

The obesity epidemic issue was raised earlier. My oppinion on it is if you're okay with your body fine, if not, change it. Being overweight doesn't always lead to health issues. But the seccond it does, an FA/FFA should, despite their carnal instincts, help them fix it......as long as we are truthful with our intentions and they are consenting.....I think that then and only then can we feel free of guilt


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## BothGunsBlazing

yes, absolutely and I know that while ultimately it's not my decision what some one chooses to do with their body, I HATE feeling like I'd be putting any kind of pressure on some one to stay a certain way just because I like it. I know some girls do, of course, love being fat, but I also know it's not that easy, because there will always be that conflict within oneself. It's hard when you're bombarded with antifat sentiments everytime you leave the house, turn on the television, read a magazine. 

I know sometimes it's difficult not to feel guilt when something happens and you feel like you just got the wind knocked out of you and you're trying to reason with yourself and all you can think of is "I'm somehow responsible for this" but that is how we work. Fat or thin, when something negative comes along in life, everyone is going to try to say "if only I'd done this or that" but all you can really do is pick yourself back up and say, yes, it's not easy, but ultimately it's better for me to be as supportive as I can and stay true to myself because in the end bad things do happen and then you'll be kicking yourself even harder when you're not there to help that person pick themselves back up and say I am here for you, guilt or no.

so, yes, sometimes I feel guilty, but the shame of walking away in fear of what COULD and sometimes does happen would far outweigh whatever guilt I feel and I never want to know what that is like.


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## SoliloquyOfaSiren

BothGunsBlazing said:


> yes, absolutely and I know that while ultimately it's not my decision what some one chooses to do with their body, I HATE feeling like I'd be putting any kind of pressure on some one to stay a certain way just because I like it. I know some girls do, of course, love being fat, but I also know it's not that easy, because there will always be that conflict within oneself. It's hard when you're bombarded with antifat sentiments everytime you leave the house, turn on the television, read a magazine.
> 
> I know sometimes it's difficult not to feel guilt when something happens and you feel like you just got the wind knocked out of you and you're trying to reason with yourself and all you can think of is "I'm somehow responsible for this" but that is how we work. Fat or thin, when something negative comes along in life, everyone is going to try to say "if only I'd done this or that" but all you can really do is pick yourself back up and say, yes, it's not easy, but ultimately it's better for me to be as supportive as I can and stay true to myself because in the end bad things do happen and then you'll be kicking yourself even harder when you're not there to help that person pick themselves back up and say I am here for you, guilt or no.
> 
> so, yes, sometimes I feel guilty, but the shame of walking away in fear of what COULD and sometimes does happen would far outweigh whatever guilt I feel and I never want to know what that is like.




Beautifully said....quite the intellectual when ur sleepy haha


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## MisterGuy

I keep hearing about how the health risks involved with obesity are overinflated. I'm sorry, but empirical evidence alone largely tells me otherwise--there are hardly any healthy supersized people over the age of 60 walking around. 

I love fat women. My gf, who was overweight when we met, has gained around 50 pounds and is now morbidly obese. I don't feed her, but I certainly have passively encouraged the wg, and yes, I accept responsibility for probably taking years off her life. No, I haven't held a gun to her head, and yes, maybe some obesity studies are flawed, but saying those things to myself makes my internal bullshit justification siren go off.

I do feel guilty, and frankly I think any FA or especially feeder/encourager should as well. Anyone who doesn't is, imho, engaging in some pretty intricate self-deception.

[moderated post (James) - discussion of recently deceased community members is distasteful and disrespectful]


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## MisterGuy

Let me add, however, that I also don't think it's healthy to hate yourself, and do think FAs do some amount of service and possibly balance the scales (no pun intended) a bit, by eliminating some of the body-issue stress that fat people have to deal with all the time.

Anyway, good timely topic and I'm happy this forum got started.


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## BeaBea

Interesting subject, and I confess I've learned a lot from this thread. I have to say though that if it boils right down to statistics then single women live longer than those in a relationship so if it's all about concern over length of life then maybe it would be better if you all just left the big ladies alone? 

More seriously though, I've been touched by the depth of feeling here and its not something I've ever really understood before. I was inclined to just discount FA guilt as self indulgence or as an excuse for not wanting to deal with the issues associated with being with a Supersized woman and clearly I was wrong. 

I would say though that as an Supersized women I exist in my own right and I got here through my own decisions and choices. I'm not here purely as a reflection of the desires of FA men and I would exist even if I wasn't 'desired.'

I fully understand the risks of being 500lbs plus and if anyone were to assume that I didn't I would be patronised and a little insulted. I carry every single one of the risks and associated fears around every day but to do that without the support of FA's would make a hard job even harder. Having the direct support of a partner is fantastic - but being single even just knowing that there are so many other FA's out there who understand is a huge bonus. It makes me feel better about my life and helps me get through the day and achieve what I need to do. None of you made me fat and none of you is keeping me fat - but you do help me live my life with a smile and a lighter heart.

I do understand the 'FA guilt' a lot better now, but for all the guilt you feel the good you do is HUGE. If you feel the need to beat yourselves up I cant stop you - but I would encourage you to pat yourselves on the back from time to time too.

Tracey xx


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## Haunted

I wanted to thank the Ladies that popped in to offer insight into why feeling guilty for something so wonderful is for lack of a better term "Silly". and it is just that. it's silly to feel guilty for loving anything, it's silly to feel like we are responsible for the woes of the BBW or BHM, Beabea's right if anything we can provide a little boost to someone who's having a Not so great day. 

Like i said in my initial post, Misty and i have discussed this all before and you ladies have echoed her almost exactly. and hearing it from others just really solidifies it, not that i don't believe misty but she's biased when it comes to me and my inane rambling. 

So Thank you A.M, Eclectic Girl, Beabea and all the other BBW's her at dimensions 

I find it very funny that it seems just about every FA harbors a little bit of guilt over being attracted to fat, ultimately it was bred from the media hammering into us that fat is bad! but after the last 4 years we see what a wonderful resource mass media Is.


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## altered states

I guess I'm with the girls here on this one. While I don't deny that being fat can have ill effects on health, what good has ever been done saying, "I find you attractive as a fat person but I know for your own good you should be smaller." We as FAs may have some role in encouraging women to get fatter, but I really can't believe anyone except for the most damaged amoung us would feel compelled to get fat, or fatter, just to please an FA. I know with my own relatively piddly struggles with weight that I was only able to get control of my body and health when I was able to like myself and accept myself, even if I didn't fit the fantasy image in my head. And a lot of that I owe to a partner who loved me and made me feel attractive even when I didn't. If health of our partners or the women we admire is what we're worried about, our acceptance and admiration will trump our guilt any time.

Mea culpa: I thought this board was dumb and unnecessary and said so, and meanwhile I'm amazed at how so many topics have been so brilliantly analyzed here in it's short existence.


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## olwen

Well so, some of the posts here have touched on what I suspected and have had diffiuculty expressing or fully understanding - the sense that FA/FFA are somehow responsible for their partner's bodies...because of the way some of you identify with fatness, some of you may feel like you have ownership of your partner's fat, and in a way you do. But that kind of ownership is not the same as the ownership a fat person has over their own bodies....what happens to a fat person's body is up to the fat person alone. Sometimes I feel like well, if I have to deal with society alone, then society should trust me enough to make my own decisions even if those decisions don't always make sense to people.

....All of this makes me wonder how guilty you all would feel if you were fat yourselves. Would those of you who are thin have a hard time living as fat people? Would you hate your bodies? Would you hate FAs? I'm also not sure if this guilt is the result of simple thin privilege or some kind of self-loathing, or some combination of the two or neither.

It's also kind of shocking to know that on some level this really boils down to people feelling like monsters for loving other monsters. I've never thought of myself as a monster and I don't think of FAs as monsters either. The people who make you feel like shit over it are the monsters. Screw them.

Sorry if I'm just rambling or sound harsh and not adding anything to the discussion, but this is the kind of stuff that knocks around my brain sometimes and writing it out helps to make it make some kind of sense. 

I also agree with all the other BBW who've posted so far. I don't feel guilty about my own existence. I'd exist regardless. So please don't feel guilty for me. I'd rather have loving support, and I need the FA I end up with to be able to give me that.


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## liz (di-va)

I have been thinking about this thread a lot.

I am very interested to hear what people have to say about all this 'from the other side.' Wouldn't presume to know what it's like.

From my own POV, I agree very much with what's been (wonderfully) put earlier; I guess in the end I don't find guilt a very helpful thing. It isn't, usually, in practice.

(That is, what I can use, and do like, is support. I take care of myself, and I like boyfriends/partners who support that activity. It has nothing to do with changing my body size, though. I don't want to, haven't tried for years, not sure my body would. This, perhaps, is an advantage of age; at this point this topic is much less about any theoretical changes in body size, and more about general care, which--if you're looking for places to put all that energy--can definitely be work. Plus - I like how I look. Guilt doesn't make much sense in that context.)

Anyhow, I definitely want to listen more than I talk on this board, so I shan't ramble on. Just saying...I absolve thee! No guilt. *wave of fatty fingers*  Heh. Not to belittle anything! Just being...goofy. Now I subside and listen.


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## Edens_heel

Fantastic thread, and very much needed considering all that has happened as of late.

I can very much relate to both the FA guilt and the concern over health from both sides, especially since I've been on both sides. While I am healthy and in pretty decent shape now, I admit that I went to physical and psychological extremes to get rid of the fat I once had. About a decade ago, I fell hard into Anorexia, and I'm still paying for it. Truly, the obsessive, self-hating tendencies have never completely died away, and I have a feeling they will always cause a conflict in me. Add in the fact that I am, through and through, an FA, and the conflict and guilt within becomes a dangerous cocktail of badness.

I think Ben's post was spot on, pitch perfect to some of the things that I have felt and struggled with over the years. In the past I've dated BBW's, but never actually explored, or had the opportunity to explore, the concept of FA guilt because they were relatively short lived. It wasn't until my relationship with the Candy Coated Clown where I finally began to truly experience it, and because of some of her own body issues, brought on by the fact that an ex had no treated her natural shape with any modicum of respect, I had a hard time just jumping right out and telling her "yes, I am an FA. We exist, and I don't want you to ever feel like you have to change your size or shape to please me." Ever since coming right out, though, we have really begun to embrace her size more and more, and she knows that my view on it, more than anything, is that I LOVE chub, but more than anything I'm attracted to a natural body shape. If that's 100 pounds, fine and dandy - she would still be stunningly beautiful to me. If it's 200 pounds, then I'm just as thrilled. If it's 300 or more, then yes, I would worry about health and mobility, but she would still be gorgeous.

I guess the true feelings of guilt really reveal themselves once you begin to see or perceive that limitations might present themselves. Like I do not, and have never, fantasize about immobility. It just doesn't do it for me. When I think about the possibility of joint and muscle pains, or diabetes, or high blood pressure that could otherwise be avoided (I know a lot of skinny people have that too, but I'm referring to it being as a product of intentional gaining or something like that) all of that acts as a sort of FA kryptonite, and that's when I begin to look at myself and say that I am not in this to objectify fat. What I want, truly, is a person who is happy and healthy in their natural state. And if that happens to have a few more rolls and curves on that natural state, all the better. But it's not about the fat. I love the contrast between our skin colours, our sizes, our upbringings, but I don't objectify that, and when I stand back and realize that, when I understand that it can be equated, for me, to liking a certain hair colour or style, or even being gay or lesbian, it is all a lifestyle preference taken into the realm of physicality.

I have a feeling this is rambling, but my thoughts really are sort of all over the place at the moment. When it comes down to it, I don't believe that I am promoting any unhealthy behaviour by simply showing my love and adoration for her body and the mind and soul contained therein. So long as she is happy, healthy, and understands my feelings, that's all that is needed.


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## Edens_heel

I started this thread some time ago:

http://dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35670

I think some aspects of it apply to this argument as well.

Cheers.


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## exile in thighville

liz (di-va) said:


> I have been thinking about this thread a lot.
> 
> I am very interested to hear what people have to say about all this 'from the other side.' Wouldn't presume to know what it's like.
> 
> From my own POV, I agree very much with what's been (wonderfully) put earlier; I guess in the end I don't find guilt a very helpful thing. It isn't, usually, in practice.
> 
> (That is, what I can use, and do like, is support. I take care of myself, and I like boyfriends/partners who support that activity. It has nothing to do with changing my body size, though. I don't want to, haven't tried for years, not sure my body would. This, perhaps, is an advantage of age; at this point this topic is much less about any theoretical changes in body size, and more about general care, which--if you're looking for places to put all that energy--can definitely be work. Plus - I like how I look. Guilt doesn't make much sense in that context.)
> 
> Anyhow, I definitely want to listen more than I talk on this board, so I shan't ramble on. Just saying...I absolve thee! No guilt. *wave of fatty fingers*  Heh. Not to belittle anything! Just being...goofy. Now I subside and listen.



it's healthy to second-guess yourself now and then and damning if it plagues your existence


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## liz (di-va)

exile in thighville said:


> it's healthy to second-guess yourself now and then and damning if it plagues your existence



I agree! [And I didn't mean to be flip--my apologies if so (was all the Easter imagery out there that got me thinking all pope-ily). I understand that guilt is the topic at hand! Didn't mean to be dismissive.]


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## Dr. P Marshall

olwen said:


> Well so, some of the posts here have touched on what I suspected and have had diffiuculty expressing or fully understanding - the sense that FA/FFA are somehow responsible for their partner's bodies...because of the way some of you identify with fatness, some of you may feel like you have ownership of your partner's fat, and in a way you do. But that kind of ownership is not the same as the ownership a fat person has over their own bodies....what happens to a fat person's body is up to the fat person alone. Sometimes I feel like well, if I have to deal with society alone, then society should trust me enough to make my own decisions even if those decisions don't always make sense to people.
> 
> ....All of this makes me wonder how guilty you all would feel if you were fat yourselves. Would those of you who are thin have a hard time living as fat people? Would you hate your bodies? Would you hate FAs? I'm also not sure if this guilt is the result of simple thin privilege or some kind of self-loathing, or some combination of the two or neither.
> 
> It's also kind of shocking to know that on some level this really boils down to people feelling like monsters for loving other monsters. I've never thought of myself as a monster and I don't think of FAs as monsters either. The people who make you feel like shit over it are the monsters. Screw them.
> 
> Sorry if I'm just rambling or sound harsh and not adding anything to the discussion, but this is the kind of stuff that knocks around my brain sometimes and writing it out helps to make it make some kind of sense.
> 
> I also agree with all the other BBW who've posted so far. I don't feel guilty about my own existence. I'd exist regardless. So please don't feel guilty for me. I'd rather have loving support, and I need the FA I end up with to be able to give me that.



OK, I am by no means speaking for all FAs here, but I want to try to explain how this scenario goes in my head. It's really not about the ownership of someone else's fat in my opinion. I realize in the context of ONE relationship with one partner, it could seem that way, but this is more about the overall ownership of my attraction as an FA to fat. In an individual relationship, most of us FAs, I think/hope would want our partner happy and healthy and whatever it takes to do that is what many of us would support. But for me and my guilt that is not the issue at hand at all. Here's a fictional scenario to try to explain:

FA dates a 500 pound fat person. The fat person starts having health issues and loses weight. The fat partner is now around 300, let's say, still fat, and is healthy, happy, etc. The FA is thrilled that his/her partner is happy, healthy, etc, but can't deny to themselves that they STILL found their partner sexier at 500 pounds EVEN WITH KNOWING ALL OF THE PROBLEMS IT CAUSED. Many FAs are going to feel that that is like saying "damn it why can't I find her/him attractive at the healthier size. Why do I find the sicker version more attractive and yearn for it still. AND WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT ME AS A PERSON?" 

And then the FA knows that this will be true of every person over and over. Now, of course, my example pertains to SSBBW/SSBHM, but that concept as a whole, I think, floats around the minds of many FAs who prefer smaller partners as well because instead of health issues, it could be joint pain, or no longer being able to do something they like. It isn't about owning the partner's fat, it's that you can't be sexually as happy if your partner becomes a different size even if you are still happy with the relationship. I really think a lot of FA guilt is summed up in the "what sort of person does that make me" way. There is also the fact that many fat people were in some way unhappy with their weight at one time. While I understand that being an FA is not something to be guilty about in general and that being fat is not a bad thing, it can make you wonder about yourself that the quality in your partner you find very sexually attractive may be the very thing that made her/his life unhappy in the past. And while yes, FAs often help make the lives of fat people very happy when they are in a relationship with one of us, the general concept that you are attracted to something that someone has to learn to accept about themselves in the first place can make you feel sometimes like you're attracted to a negative. (Obviously, I don't mean that being fat is negative, but the idea that it can cause so many negative experiences for fat people).


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## AnnMarie

I'm really enjoying the conversation and so glad you're all having it. I've known and been around many FAs for years, and this is something I've discussed with them and it's always interesting. I hoped this board would foster that type of candid discussion, and I'm so glad it is. 


This is a topic I could go on and on about, but much of what I would have shared has been stated by other fat women here so there's no reason to belabor the point. 

No one here should tell you what to feel, if you struggle sometimes - you're clearly not alone. I hope that reading some of our input has helped you realize that we're very much our own people living our own lives and your desires and likes are an addition to that life we're living - not a cause of it. We like that you like! If we didn't, then it's possibly a very different conversation. 

I'm not a woman who struggles with my own body image and things, so I can't answer for them. Perhaps there is some "I want to please him, but it goes against my own desires for my body" issue with fat partners who are in some sort of limbo between body hatred and minimal body acceptance. 


I'm rambling, I'm sorry - a bit unstructured here. 

1. I think some guilt is healthy in a check and balance way. I don't think being riddled by it is healthy or productive, but keeping in check the reality of a situation can help you be there and real and supportive and WHOLE with your SO - that's a great quality and admirable one. 

2. We talk a lot about how your fat partner can be healthy so it's all just fine. You know what? We're not all healthy. We're just not. I had a shitty back that's thankfully been treated, but I know it was worse because I weigh over 400lbs. I'm better now, and that's great, but should it flare up again - will that issue be something that inspires guilt in a future partner? I hope not, but I realize they may see that issue as a physical defect caused by my fat. In that line of thinking, they like fat, fat caused pain, pain is bad. They like fat, fat is bad. Wow, we're right back where we started with society. 

What I try to make clear is that, as others have said, my fat exists and my life exists without any FA. My life is better and more fun and more enjoyable when with an FA that I love and who loves me back.

I don't want a caretaker, and I know some men feel some level of guilt for not wanting to find themselves in that position. I also get that. 

*whole issue of guilt vs. pity, but seems better for another time?*

I hope you guys keep talking about this. I really think it helps just to know so many of you deal with these thoughts sometimes. Hopefully it will make you all realize that it's part of the dynamic, but not something that should keep you from pursuing the women who are just out here living their lives. How much better they can be with a guy who's aware enough to even consider their impact on another.


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## UMBROBOYUM

I've never had a partner , so i don't know how far this can go without that experience. I don't feel guilty. Why? Because its what I find attractive and beautiful. If someone disagrees or feels different that is fine. I hard a time figuring this out when I was younger, but I think that I'd be betraying myself if I did feel guilty about my love of fat women and I think that'd also hurt someone more who might be looking for comfort in the knowledge of my feelings of that love. Do I feel bad when someone has trouble because of it? Yes, but thats a separate issue I think. Feeling guilty because of what you like and feeling guilty thinking that its because of what you like is a different thing to me. One implies that you don't believe in your feelings and the other implies doubt about positive/or negative influences of your feelings on other people. 


This can be applied to anyone really, and well since this is the fa specific thread, I implore FAs and company not to ascribe guilty feelings on yourselves because this world that we live in already does enough of that to us. And if you do end up having guilty feelings, well thats okay too because you're only human and you're supposed to have feelings on things. 

English was never my strong point, nor writing so I may have a grammatical error and structural sentence issues


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## altered states

After a lifetime of being bombarded with messages that say fat=bad, it is beyond most people's powers of skepticism not to have internalized them to some degree. So as an FA, the rest of the world is saying "you like something bad." Compound that with a partner who may be ambivalent about their weight, or may be having weight-related health/social/professional problems, or just knowing people (online or irl) who are experiencing them, it's very difficult to be positive about one's preference for the very thing that's causing these issues. And that's even if the FA knows objectively that they really have no control over the fat partner/friend/acquaintances' weight. It's certainly a recipe for self-hatred. It takes a lot of constant attention to keep your head straight and disrespectfully decline much of the world's opinion on the matter and just be yourself.


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## ValentineBBW

I'm with Liz, I'm here to listen more than I am to participate, but this is something I need I need to chime in. As much as I hate to do a "me too" post, I can't really add anything else that Carrie, AnnMarie, Carla, Tracey and Liz haven't already said and said it beautifully...I'm just showing my support.


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## Weirdo890

I have had some FA guilt, but I got over it when I realized that feeling guilty over my preferences isn't going to change them. I have my fantasies about fat girls getting fatter, but it remains just that, a_fantasy_. I know in reality that this fantasy has adverse effects. So I say, if you're feeling FA guilt, don't. Just keep a clear head about things, and I think everything will turn out all right.


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## olwen

Dr. P Marshall said:


> OK, I am by no means speaking for all FAs here, but I want to try to explain how this scenario goes in my head. It's really not about the ownership of someone else's fat in my opinion. I realize in the context of ONE relationship with one partner, it could seem that way, but this is more about the overall ownership of my attraction as an FA to fat. In an individual relationship, most of us FAs, I think/hope would want our partner happy and healthy and whatever it takes to do that is what many of us would support. But for me and my guilt that is not the issue at hand at all. Here's a fictional scenario to try to explain:
> 
> FA dates a 500 pound fat person. The fat person starts having health issues and loses weight. The fat partner is now around 300, let's say, still fat, and is healthy, happy, etc. The FA is thrilled that his/her partner is happy, healthy, etc, but can't deny to themselves that they STILL found their partner sexier at 500 pounds EVEN WITH KNOWING ALL OF THE PROBLEMS IT CAUSED. Many FAs are going to feel that that is like saying "damn it why can't I find her/him attractive at the healthier size. Why do I find the sicker version more attractive and yearn for it still. AND WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT ME AS A PERSON?"
> 
> And then the FA knows that this will be true of every person over and over. Now, of course, my example pertains to SSBBW/SSBHM, but that concept as a whole, I think, floats around the minds of many FAs who prefer smaller partners as well because instead of health issues, it could be joint pain, or no longer being able to do something they like. It isn't about owning the partner's fat, it's that you can't be sexually as happy if your partner becomes a different size even if you are still happy with the relationship. I really think a lot of FA guilt is summed up in the "what sort of person does that make me" way. There is also the fact that many fat people were in some way unhappy with their weight at one time. While I understand that being an FA is not something to be guilty about in general and that being fat is not a bad thing, it can make you wonder about yourself that the quality in your partner you find very sexually attractive may be the very thing that made her/his life unhappy in the past. And while yes, FAs often help make the lives of fat people very happy when they are in a relationship with one of us, the general concept that you are attracted to something that someone has to learn to accept about themselves in the first place can make you feel sometimes like you're attracted to a negative. (Obviously, I don't mean that being fat is negative, but the idea that it can cause so many negative experiences for fat people).



Aahhh. Thanks for the explanation. "What sort of person does that make me?" "attracted to a negative" Those I understand all too well. How it pertains to my sexuality is a bit different but that horrible feeling is probably the same since some of the things I do are the kinds of things that would horrify normal folks, so I think I'm understanding this a bit better. I can't lie, sometimes I wish I didn't need the things I do sexually because it would increase the pool of men I can be with and just make my (sex) life easier in general, but I can't imagine my life without it at this point, so I just don't think too hard about the negatives anymore. 

Anyway this is a good thread. I'm glad for the chance to understand this better, so I'll try to do less talking and more listening.


----------



## MisterGuy

Would this be a good comparison? 

Say you were someone turned on by smoking. Say you started dating someone who smoked 2 packs a day before you met and continues to, once you're together. Maybe they even start smoking a little more because they know you like it. 

Now, you are not ultimately responsible for this person's smoking habit, but if you're a normal person w/ a conscience you'll probably feel some degree of guilt about the passive encouragement. Even guilt about accepting their smoking, b/c really, if you do anything other than encourage them to stop smoking, you're possibly complicit in damaging their health and shortening their lifespan. On top of all this, you're not just accepting of it, inside, you're getting turned on by it. And if they did cut down to one pack a day, part of you would fondly reminisce about when they chain-smoked and feel guilty about that, as well.

I realize this isn't a perfect comparison--a lot of fat people can't help being fat and smoking is ultimately a choice, but then again, a lot of people really can't quit smoking, either. Dunno, just a lame attempt to explain the FA guilt-complex outside the terms of fat and weight gain.


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## olwen

MisterGuy said:


> Would this be a good comparison?
> 
> Say you were someone turned on by smoking. Say you started dating someone who smoked 2 packs a day before you met and continues to, once you're together. Maybe they even start smoking a little more because they know you like it.
> 
> Now, you are not ultimately responsible for this person's smoking habit, but if you're a normal person w/ a conscience you'll probably feel some degree of guilt about the passive encouragement. Even guilt about accepting their smoking, b/c really, if you do anything other than encourage them to stop smoking, you're possibly complicit in damaging their health and shortening their lifespan. On top of all this, you're not just accepting of it, inside, you're getting turned on by it. And if they did cut down to one pack a day, part of you would fondly reminisce about when they chain-smoked and feel guilty about that, as well.
> 
> I realize this isn't a perfect comparison--a lot of fat people can't help being fat and smoking is ultimately a choice, but then again, a lot of people really can't quit smoking, either. Dunno, just a lame attempt to explain the FA guilt-complex outside the terms of fat and weight gain.



I'm actually a smoker. I'm going to smoke regardless of whether or not it turns someone on. Whether or not I quit is my responsibility and mine alone. It actually pisses me off when people try to convince me to quit. So you know they can talk till they're blue in the face (ha, pun) but as far as I'm concerned they are not complicit or morally irresponsible in any way. Their guilt is their responsibility and theirs alone. I'm not gonna quit to assuage someone's guilt, and if I do it will only be for my own health. How responsible to other adults are we really? There has to be a line, or at the very least mitigating circumstances and I don't think smoking is one of them. 

I was making a comparison to bdsm which has its own diabolical traps and pitfalls (ha, another pun). It seemed apt because to a lot of people who are into it, it is a way of life. Something they can't live without. At that point it's no longer a choice and is firmly a part of who you are. A lot of what we do is at best dangerous (emotionally, physically) and at most fatal if not done properly, but the pleasures are worth the risk, and the guilt talk, especially if the person is a Sadistic (but caring) Top can be kind of difficult to navigate even if they have accepted that part of themselves. Some people deal with the guilt by no longer engaging in bdsm activities and some do fine that way, but some find they can't live without the activities for too long and they are right back to where they started. I talk about this stuff so much I just assumed most people knew what I was talking about. Sorry if that wasn't clear.


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## James

I think this is a fascinating thread. FA guilt is truly a strange phenomenon but it is one that most FAs experience on some level, at some time or another? 

FA guilt occurs, on the most benign level, when one is aware of the pressure that one imparts as an FA, simply by having an aesthetic that runs contrary to the desires of a partner. There does not even have to be any overt directional pressure from either party... when the category for an FA's aesthetic beauty is in direct conflict with another's indicator for self worth then there is unavoidable friction.

I think that there is great potential for miscommunication in such scenarios based on the way that people try to please partners in relationships. An FA may try to suppress his aesthetic in order to avoid generating this guilt-ridden pressure upon a partner. This can often lead to stunted sexuality from the FA. This seems to be especially true for those FAs with a gain-fantasy aesthetic. (Indeed, from discussions with other FAs I've heard that this kind of FA guilt is frequently a component factor for remaining closeted?). Another frequent scenario that one sees, is for BBWs to fake enthusiasm towards their size, as a means to raise their desirability, by reducing the potential for the 'friction' described above. Both scenarios can lead to 'pressurized consent' situations that are ultimately dishonest, and therefore likely to lead to more guilt...

I have found that one of the best ways to tackle guilt is through direct conversation on this 'friction' topic. I would much rather know the actual thoughts of a partner and for them to know mine... up front... and then work it through (if necessary) rather than to fight ghosts and second guess all the time!


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## SocialbFly

i dont know if we are really supposed to chime in or not, but i love this thread, but let me say, is this liking someone that you like any different than someone who wants a thin wife, a this or that wife or partner...

if i want someone with a certain body type am i wrong to go after it? what if it means dieting for them, what if it means surgery for them, what if it means lipo or implants or injections for them, or drugs or whatever...

there are so many things to feel guilty for in this world, surely liking and CARING for someone shouldnt be one of them.

there are whole other examples but i am on a time crunch before work, but i cant help but wonder, how many feel guilty for wanting a size 5 on their arm, when it takes that person a hell of a lot of work to stay there...is it any harder having a size 50?


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## TraciJo67

SocialbFly said:


> i dont know if we are really supposed to chime in or not, but i love this thread, but let me say, is this liking someone that you like any different than someone who wants a thin wife, a this or that wife or partner...
> 
> if i want someone with a certain body type am i wrong to go after it? what if it means dieting for them, what if it means surgery for them, what if it means lipo or implants or injections for them, or drugs or whatever...
> 
> there are so many things to feel guilty for in this world, surely liking and CARING for someone shouldnt be one of them.
> 
> there are whole other examples but i am on a time crunch before work, but i cant help but wonder, how many feel guilty for wanting a size 5 on their arm, when it takes that person a hell of a lot of work to stay there...is it any harder having a size 50?



My thoughts exactly, Di. As long as there isn't coercion involved, I can't see where it's wrong to love and enjoy a person's body, no matter what the size. I don't mean to diminish the very earnestly expressed feelings of anyone here, and I do actually understand the source of the conflict, but I do think that it's misplaced. We can no more control what we're attracted to than we can what we aren't. 

Many women are unhappy about their bodies no matter what size they are. It took me years, a lot of soul-searching, many changes (some of them painful and life-altering), to get to a point of acceptance with myself. I always knew that my husband loved me for who and what I am/was. I wish that would have been enough for me. The reality is, it never is. I had to fix what was wrong with me, myself.


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## James

Hi Dianna,

just a quick note on 'chiming in' from BBWS/BHMS/Non-FAs, these are the forum rules (taken from the sticky)



> *On the Participation of Non FA/FFAs…*
> 
> The focus of this forum is the discussion of FA/FFA issues, but this in no way precludes participation by interested non-FAs/FFA. The forum is open for all to view and positive or supportive comments from non-FAs are welcomed. However, as the forum is a protected space for FA/FFAs, any negative, disruptive or belittling posts will be removed or moderated.


Your post is fine btw (and also a thought provoking comparison) 




_As a side note to all FA/FFA Board users...

For all others who are wondering about the issue (as the sticky says), this is a protected space and Non-FA input will be moderated if it deviates into areas of off-topic, non-FA discussion, FA-bashing or similar. FA forum users are invited to report any posts (click on the red triangle under a poster's avatar) that they feel violate these rules to the mods (Observer, Missaf and James)._


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## SocialbFly

Thank you for clarifying, as i havent had a chance to read up on the board yet, but am very glad it is here.


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## Observer

As James noted earlier, every FA has to deal with this issue at some point in their walk -. Even though for many of us we start out with a guilt free natural attraction to larger rather than thinner people (I recall mine being as early as the fourth grade), society interferes with our instincts. 

Were told by religion that gluttony is one of the seven deadly sins (even though the Bible says no such thing). Were told by doctors and insurance companies that were at greater risk (with no allowance for risk management or acknowledgement that there is risk in everything). Were told by the media that what we like is not really attractive (even though we frequently see happy fat folk with partners in counterpoint to this). Were told by entertainers that what we enjoy is in fact fair game for jokes and insults. Is it any wonder that our relatives and peers sometimes join in the fat phobic chorus? And that we doubt ourselves?

Any FA, even the most open and out of the closet, has had to deal with second guesses about their feelings. Never mind that we are what we are, could we be just as wrong as a serial killer or sociopath? Before buzz words like enabler and control were part of the common vocabulary I was tormented by self-doubts that belied my own embracing of what we now term size acceptance. It was serious enough that I sought counsel of a minister I respected.

Fortunately he had more wisdom and experience than the penchant of some for judgmental legalism. He heard me out patiently and didnt make me feel that I was a pervert or sinner. He did, however, give me some perspective. After pointing out (as most Christians should know) that Jesus was accused of being a glutton and never let anyone go away from His table hungry, he asked me who created the Manatee and hippopotamus? 

Love, he noted, isnt about size, its much larger than that. God loves all his creatures, including every human  and there are enough fat Christians with plenty of His holy spirit (as well as thin ones) that we should be able to accept this and follow His example.

Then he zeroed in on my feelings. He noted that I was going to be attracted to whomever I was attracted to  and that was a natural thing that neither he or anyone else could or should try to control. The Bible teaching is faithfulness and dedication  doing 100% whatever you set your hand to do. If a person likes a certain size person, whether its tall, fat, thin, or short its their business  but marriage should be a lifetime commitment at any size. 

He did note that in his experience heavier women were larger for a variety of reasons  and I should be careful. Some just come cultures and families that are larger, while the size of others can reflect eating problems and deeper issues. Certainly eating an excess of certain foods will impact anyones health. but thats not usually the big problem. Even the most loving spouse cant change a persons links to the past or attitude towards their bodies  that takes desire and professional help. But, he reassured me, there was nothing wrong with me for admitting that I simply liked a certain physical type. In fact, the right larger girl would probably be very thankful for it.

After that counseling session  which I would myself repeat with other FAs myself in the years ahead, I never again felt guilty about liking larger women. But its a stage every FA has to face and pass through. For me it was over forty years ago - but its still the case today.


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## Tooz

Regarding health/weight conundrum:

I weigh in the 380-400 range, and I am 5'8. I take a size 30 pants/26 to 28 top for reference. My boyfriend is 5'11, 180 pounds. 32 32 pants again, for reference. To look at us, I'm sure many assume that I would be the one with poorer health. He has Tendonitis, flat feet and Diabetes. I have nothing, and the only prescription drug (aside from birth control) I have taken for a condition in my life was Allegra for allergies I had as a child. I do have illness-induced Asthma, but that is completely unrelated to weight-- I developed it along with my allergies as a child. It only affects me when I have severe respiratory bugs.

My point is that, yes, there may be an increased rate of ailments for those who weigh more. It may or may not affect the one you are dating, though. Furthermore, everyone has ailments, exacerbated or not by weight. For those of you feeling guilty: are you not afflicted with something? Do you want your SO to feel guilty for dating you, in spite of your (insert condition here)? My intent is not to be mean, but simply to make you think about it.

My heart really does go out to you-- I don't want you to feel guilty, though. For me, guilt is dangerously close to pity, and I would be upset if I found that my SO felt guilt for being attracted to me. My life is good, and I like to be active (and am). I do not feel held back by my weight, and I take whatever measures necessary to maximize my health and activities. Others have said this, as well. If we don't feel guilty for our fatness, you shouldn't, either!

Of course, your results may vary if you are with someone who has severely disordered eating/emotions/self image.


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## rollhandler

I feel the guilt of the FA but never for my preference. 

I adore fat women period. The guilt that I sense is related not to her health but to her self image and self esteem and my role in a relationship to be supportive when what she wants doesnt align with what I desire. I am not sure guilt is the right word but uncomfortable and in certain instances unsupportive.

I have always seen part of my job in a relationship is to help make sure she feels good about herself. I also have this need from her. To me it's a healthy aspect and a needed one in an equal parnership.

In two of my three lovelives I have been met with the catch 22 senario where she believes that no matter what I tell her I will leave if she loses weight. 

If she wants to lose weight and I tell her to go ahead and do what she feels she needs to I feel it again because I don't feel that I can be supportive as a partner and maintain my desires. IE: I dont want her to lose weight I find her attractive as is. If I tell her that she looks beautiful and doesn't need to lose weight, its an entirely different can of worms.

Its not about her health, but certain situations. Its about the ego,and self esteem of my partner and my job as an equal partner in the relationship, and a ragged edge to ride.
Rollhandler


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## CCC

Tooz said:


> *excellent ideas*




Interesting point.
There are actually quite a few things quite wrong with my body (nothing obvious to the naked eye, which was kind of your point), and chances are that right from the start, any SO I would be with would in fact be "healthier" than I am.

And thinking about the fine line between guilt and pity also seems important. Most people with a healthy amount of pride _hate_ pity (pretty sure I do), and I wouldn't want to unintentionally force that on someone by way of feeling guilty for him/her.

This topic already has so many layers... it's amazing.


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## Tooz

CCC said:


> people with a healthy amount of pride



Me. Possibly too much pride. Haha.


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## Starling

I've never felt 'guilt' or any of its synonyms for being attracted to fat guys. However, there are a lot of places where I do feel guilty hardcore for some of the aspects of fat guys I am attracted to. Like when I was in high school and a guy and I went to an amusement park with a bunch of our friends, and he was too big for a couple of the rides. I thought it was so hot, but at the same time I felt really bad for being turned on by something he was obviously mortified by. I also have a guy friend now who has been trying to loose weight all year, and he's had quite a bit of success. However, he's gained some back in the past month, and I know he's pretty depressed/upset about it. I think he looks dead sexy these days, but I also feel like a bad friend for liking how he looks now when he was a lot more confident and secure when he was thinner. So these things, yes, I feel ten kinds of guilt over. But guilt over being attracted to fat guys? Not so much.


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## Ben from England

This thread has been so, so helpful. It's an issue I happen to be having a real hard time with. 

So, looking for advice,



AnnMarie said:


> I realize they may see that issue as a physical defect caused by my fat. In that line of thinking, they like fat, fat caused pain, pain is bad. They like fat, fat is bad. Wow, we're right back where we started with society.



The thing is, that IS pretty much my line of thinking. If you could outline where I'm wrong, it would be awesome. 

Also
It has struck me that when I see pictures from the past or something, pictures of when a woman was smaller, I'm just not as into them. It drives me insane! I don't want to be less turned on! I just can't help it though. It scares me and makes me feel terrible. If I were all in on a partner, I can't see it being a deal breaker, or even a major issue, in the big scheme of things on my end. I mean, I accepted my lot in terms of the difficulties my orientation poses a long time ago when it comes to being satisfied physically (which is the reason I'm open to dating skinny girls). The bottom line is, though, that I would be less attracted to a BBW if they lost alot of weight and I worry about how that would make my potential partner feel. How do others deal with this?


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## Dr. P Marshall

Ben from England said:


> It drives me insane! I don't want to be less turned on! I just can't help it though. It scares me and makes me feel terrible. If I were all in on a partner, I can't see it being a deal breaker, or even a major issue, in the big scheme of things on my end. I mean, I accepted my lot in terms of the difficulties my orientation poses a long time ago when it comes to being satisfied physically (which is the reason I'm open to dating skinny girls). The bottom line is, though, that I would be less attracted to a BBW if they lost alot of weight and I worry about how that would make my potential partner feel. How do others deal with this?



You know what Ben, I used to have a problem with this issue too, but this is one that even I was able to sort out pretty easily. We are actually no different from anyone on this issue. Every non-FA takes the risk that their partner will GAIN weight in a relationship and that they will be less attractive to them. Many non-FAs stay with partners who become far heavier than they find attractive. Yet in the context of their individual relationships they make it work. I don't know whether they feel guilty for finding their partner less attractive, I'm sure it's a mixed bag. I don't know, that's just how I see it. Hope it helps some.

Actually since all the other members of this board are non-FAs, they could actually answer for us whether or not they feel guilty for finding a partner who has gained weight less attractive.


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## chicken legs

Tooz said:


> Regarding health/weight conundrum:
> 
> I weigh in the 380-400 range, and I am 5'8. I take a size 30 pants/26 to 28 top for reference. My boyfriend is 5'11, 180 pounds. 32 32 pants again, for reference. To look at us, I'm sure many assume that I would be the one with poorer health. He has Tendonitis, flat feet and Diabetes. I have nothing, and the only prescription drug (aside from birth control) I have taken for a condition in my life was Allegra for allergies I had as a child. I do have illness-induced Asthma, but that is completely unrelated to weight-- I developed it along with my allergies as a child. It only affects me when I have severe respiratory bugs.
> 
> My point is that, yes, there may be an increased rate of ailments for those who weigh more. It may or may not affect the one you are dating, though. Furthermore, everyone has ailments, exacerbated or not by weight. For those of you feeling guilty: are you not afflicted with something? Do you want your SO to feel guilty for dating you, in spite of your (insert condition here)? My intent is not to be mean, but simply to make you think about it.
> 
> My heart really does go out to you-- I don't want you to feel guilty, though. For me, guilt is dangerously close to pity, and I would be upset if I found that my SO felt guilt for being attracted to me. My life is good, and I like to be active (and am). I do not feel held back by my weight, and I take whatever measures necessary to maximize my health and activities. Others have said this, as well. If we don't feel guilty for our fatness, you shouldn't, either!
> 
> Of course, your results may vary if you are with someone who has severely disordered eating/emotions/self image.




I think being in contact with big healthy people like Tooz is why i dont have any guilt towards being a ffa. Plus being a bbw and being at my body's maxium weight (ex was a feeder) of 218, i realize that everyone's body is different. My healthiest is around 130 but someone with the exact same height (5'6') but with a different body type could be good at twice that size. Basically, i think its cool to see big healthy MOFO's, and I'm glad to be with someone who appreciates me at whatever size is healthiest for me because thats what I want for him and for everyone to be at.


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## escapist

chicken legs said:


> I think being in contact with big healthy people like Tooz is why i dont have any guilt towards being a ffa. Plus being a bbw and being at my body's maxium weight (ex was a feeder) of 218, i realize that everyone's body is different. My healthiest is around 130 but someone with the exact same height (5'6') but with a different body type could be good at twice that size. Basically, i think its cool to see big healthy MOFO's, and I'm glad to be with someone who appreciates me at whatever size is healthiest for me because thats what I want for him and for everyone to be at.



Well that's cause the FA in me Loves the mmmmmmm curves yeah that's it....and the BHM in me loves the size contrast if she's a size 3 again. As to appreciating her well, she could be any size or color; blue, green, even aqua-marine and I would still appreciate this woman. Yeah, she's just that cool. :wubu: :blush: :happy:


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## chicken legs

****slides Escapist under the table rep***:wubu::blush:


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## Blackhawk2293

Guilt? I think the question should really be, do you feel guilt because other people want you to feel guilt or is it genuine guilt that comes from within?

For me, that was true about 10 years ago (guilt because of others) when I hung out with friends who typically dated the thinner kind of girl. Even then I didn't feel the need to date a particular "type" of girl to fit in with the crowd, I just dated who I dated and if anybody had anything to say about it I just made it known to them that their opinions are about as important to me as a warm bucket of hamster vomit. Of course, the "peer pressure" doesn't go away after that.

I guess for me personally, in the physical attraction sense anyway, I prefer BBWs and SSBBWs but that doesn't mean I'm 'never' attracted to thinner women. IMO you can't choose who you're attracted to, either you are attracted to them or you aren't! It makes no sense to beat yourself up over it for the sake of other people.

But if it really is your own guilt and not projections of others then you (and others that feel that way) have a lot to think about.




Mini said:


> You knew it was coming, and it might as well be started by the dude who says unpopular shit anyway.
> 
> So, yeah. I think we all know what I mean. How do you deal with it? Do you even feel it?
> 
> Me, personally, it's oftentimes the kind of cognitive dissonance that I frown upon in *every* other aspect of my life. I *know* that the "epidemic" is a lot of hype, and I *know* that being overweight - a bullshit term in and of itself - isn't the death sentence it's made out to be, but I also know that there are relatively few super-sized persons in the old folks home, and that there are health risks associated with being, well, quite large.
> 
> And yet I'm attracted to it, and I can't help it, and I'll be damned if it doesn't bug the shit out of me sometimes.


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## Mini

Blackhawk2293 said:


> Guilt? I think the question should really be, do you feel guilt because other people want you to feel guilt or is it genuine guilt that comes from within?
> 
> For me, that was true about 10 years ago (guilt because of others) when I hung out with friends who typically dated the thinner kind of girl. Even then I didn't feel the need to date a particular "type" of girl to fit in with the crowd, I just dated who I dated and if anybody had anything to say about it I just made it known to them that their opinions are about as important to me as a warm bucket of hamster vomit. Of course, the "peer pressure" doesn't go away after that.
> 
> I guess for me personally, in the physical attraction sense anyway, I prefer BBWs and SSBBWs but that doesn't mean I'm 'never' attracted to thinner women. IMO you can't choose who you're attracted to, either you are attracted to them or you aren't! It makes no sense to beat yourself up over it for the sake of other people.
> 
> But if it really is your own guilt and not projections of others then you (and others that feel that way) have a lot to think about.



Genuine guilt because I've had firsthand experience both with being "fat" and from seeing loved ones struggle with their weight.


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## mergirl

I havn't read every post here yet but am working through them. In many ways, your words are making me feel better. Not that your unhappiness or guilt makes me feel happy..more that its nice to know i'm not alone in these feelings. I think, as i have had a longer relationship with a really understanding partner, my guilt feelings are a bit less. GD has said she would be big with or without me.. A while ago i wrote a post 'Being an Fa made me cry last night' and i guess that pretty much sums up my feelings of Fa guilt.
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41653&highlight=made+night+mergirl

I'm sure i will have more to add to this discussion as i read through. So far, thank you to everyone who has shared their feelings about this, i know its not easy but it really helps a lot of people feel a bit better to hear they are not alone with their feelings.
x


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## Ernest Nagel

My guilt strings are wound pretty tight to begin with. Give me a few minutes and a couple of drinks and I can find ways to blame myself for things that happened before I was even born. That said I don't find myself struggling a lot with guilt in the abstract. Worrying about hypotheticals that may or may not occur can paralyze you. Nobody knows how many days were given or whether anything can be done to change that number. 

My guilt is more in the here and now. Having been married to or in relationship with SSBBW most of my life I find it's the day to day issues that trouble me. When her feet or legs are painfully swollen, her breathing is labored, she's exhausted, chafed, just generally uncomfortable or any one of a hundred other things I question myself. Is bringing her food she asks for and enjoys an irresponsible indulgence? Does giving her the freedom not to work make her dangerously sedentary? What about having a housekeeper? I am neither a feeder nor an encourager. I support my partner's healthy eating and exercise habits any way I can without nagging or pushing. So how accountable am I that she is miserable? More than I can accept, Im afraid.

This pattern has repeated itself to some degree in almost every relationship I've ever been in. It certainly contributed, although it was definitely not the only factor, to the failure of my last marriage. I know its a consideration in my decision to stay out of romantic relationships. I want to make someone happy but acting on that intention ultimately makes her more unhappy. Its like a Catch-22 from hell.

I was reluctant to share this out of concern that it might make anyone on either side of this type of situation self-conscious or uncomfortable. That's just another example of the Protector mode I seem to always fall into I suppose? I feel compelled to defend someone I care for from harm or unhappiness. What happens though when you can't provide that protection, when you can't offer the support that's needed? Anger, frustration, despair is the short answer; all manifestations of guilt, at least for me.


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## imfree

Observer said:


> ...........snipped..............
> 
> Were told by religion that gluttony is one of the seven deadly sins (even though the Bible says no such thing)............snipped.........
> 
> Love, he noted, isnt about size, its much larger than that. God loves all his creatures, including every human  and there are enough fat Christians with plenty of His holy spirit (as well as thin ones) that we should be able to accept this and follow His example.



It was the writings of one intelligent, witty, funny, and genuinely 
compassionate, fat, spirit-filled Christian that brought me to the
place where I could live a spirit-filled Christian life. Yes, God loves 
fat people, too! It is completely possible for a fat person to be a
fully functional, spirit-filled Christian! The windows of Heaven 
continue to open and pour blessing on me that I can hardly 
contain. Praise God, He is so good!!!


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## Blackhawk2293

Fair enough. Like I said, guilt that comes from within is something that needs to be reflected on and dealt with... or at least managed enough that it doesn't impair the rest of your life.

As I said, that guilt was there for me 10 years ago and I kept telling it to "f#@k off" but that guilt wouldn't listen and so after travelling through cities in Australia and other parts of the world going touring, partying, dating, working, exploring in the last 10 years, the guilt eventually became irrelevant because I had other things to deal with (both pleasant and unpleasant).

My point is, if it is such an issue perhaps you need some time alone to work on it. You don't have to travel around like I did... unless it's something you've really been itching to do.



Mini said:


> Genuine guilt because I've had firsthand experience both with being "fat" and from seeing loved ones struggle with their weight.


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## katherine22

There are no guarantees in life. You could be thin, workout and drop dead of a heart attack. There is no death proof lifestyle. We should support people who have the courage to live their choices and not worry that they will have an extra couple of years by not being fat.


Carrie said:


> God, I love this forum. This is such an important topic.
> 
> From a superfatty's point of view, the subject of FA guilt is sort of the ultimate catch-22. I mean, who _doesn't_ want a partner who possesses the emotional sensitivity to worry about this kind of stuff? I understand, absolutely, where the guilt comes from. Without even touching the topic of how fat does - or doesn't - affect health, the simple fact is that life as a fat person is just really effing hard, physically and emotionally. You can love and respect your body and be a confident, sexual, well-adjusted fat person, but some days are still just awful and you feel like saying, "okay, screw this, I hate being fat." That's just how it goes. So I understand the guilt that comes from desiring something that can be a hardship to the person carrying it, I do. And like I said, I absolutely appreciate a partner who is caring enough to think about it, and worry about it. But on the other hand, the thought of being the source of guilt for my (theoretical) partner makes me absolutely cringe. The last thing I want is for someone to feel badly for finding my fat body sexy, you know? I don't feel guilty about _being_ fat, so why should you feel guilty about liking my fat?
> 
> So I don't know. There has to be a happy medium somewhere, but I'm not sure where it lies. I will say that while it's certainly worthy of consideration and thought, _obsessing_ about it is likely to drive you and your fat partner crazy. I also think that while of course, there are some beautiful women out there who've gained on purpose, most of us probably haven't, so keep in mind that we were probably fat for a long time before we knew you and probably will be fat for a long time, so there's not much of a point in worrying _too_ much about the effect or morality of your preference for fat people and how it affects us. It just.... is.


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## Blackhawk2293

Exactly! Life and death are a dual pair, you can't have one without the other.

So live how you want to live. I personally think it's better to die knowing that you've done (and/or tried) everything you wanted to do than lie in your death bed saying "I wish I could have done this and I wish I could have done that"




katherine22 said:


> There are no guarantees in life. You could be thin, workout and drop dead of a heart attack. There is no death proof lifestyle. We should support people who have the courage to live their choices and not worry that they will have an extra couple of years by not being fat.


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## katherine22

A woman who is fat and loves her body takes responsiblity for her body. No FA can make a woman fat who does not want to be fat. The real question becomes what is the implication for the FA who is involved with a fat woman who hates her fat which is part of herself. A woman who hates herself is a drag whether she is fat or thin. 




superodalisque said:


> i think to avoid feeling guilty FAs have to be careful not to internalize the blame some women would like to lay on them. some hate thier fat and really can't see how you'd love it. a lot of people are very good at hiding the fact or its subconscious with them. a BBWs issue with food is her issue. some people who do have a food addiction actively seek out an enabler and then blame them for the result. thats why for your own mental health its a good idea to take your time and find a woman who truly likes her weight and the rest of life as well. you have to be careful about choosing someone who does not like it and blames her weight and you for everything going wrong in her life. you can't make a woman love it. its her thing. she shouldn't make you responsible for her entire life. if she puts you in that position its probably not really about you at all. she just needs someone to set up for the blame game. a woman has a choice in everything that she does. a grown woman takes responsibility for that. be careful not to let people guilt you out just for loving and desiring them as they are. your right, there is nothing wrong with finding someone attractive.


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## BeaBea

katherine22 said:


> The real question becomes what is the implication for the FA who is involved with a fat woman who hates her fat which is part of herself. A woman who hates herself is a drag whether she is fat or thin.



In a black and white sense I agree with you - but most women, and in fact most people, are 'works in progress' and lots of us came to love our bodies one part at a time. The journey is ongoing, and for most of us involves a few backward steps as well as some forward ones too - just as it does for FAs dealing with their issues relating to guilt etc.

Tracey


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## imfree

katherine22 said:


> A woman who is fat and loves her body takes responsibility for her body. No FA can make a woman fat who does not want to be fat. The real question becomes what is the implication for the FA who is involved with a fat woman who hates her fat which is part of herself. A woman who hates herself is a drag whether she is fat or thin.



Great post! Regardless of whether a person loves or hates being fat,
the rewards from responsibly managing one's body are amazing!
Being mindful of good nutrition, using medications properly, 
properly managing conditions (diabetes, for example), and being
active, can give a fat person substantially better quality of life.:bow:


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## ImSoDead

katherine22 said:


> A woman who is fat and loves her body takes responsiblity for her body. No FA can make a woman fat who does not want to be fat. The real question becomes what is the implication for the FA who is involved with a fat woman who hates her fat which is part of herself. A woman who hates herself is a drag whether she is fat or thin.



Exactly! If you, as an FA feel guilt, you might just be an enabler.... I should know as I used to be an unwittingly enabler. I'm still an FA but I now disavow all ownership for anyone's feelings or fat except my own. You have to treat the BBW as a grown woman and let her take responsibility for herself. Trust me. You and her will be happier if you do that.


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## katherine22

BeaBea said:


> In a black and white sense I agree with you - but most women, and in fact most people, are 'works in progress' and lots of us came to love our bodies one part at a time. The journey is ongoing, and for most of us involves a few backward steps as well as some forward ones too - just as it does for FAs dealing with their issues relating to guilt etc.
> 
> Tracey




Hi-Tracey,

Thanks for your response. If I can make one contribution on this site it would be to encourage young fat women to hurry up and love themselves. It took me 40 years to accept myself as a pretty fat woman. I am grieving what I missed out on in life by hating my body.


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## kioewen

Observer said:


> As James noted earlier, every FA has to deal with this issue at some point in their walk -. Even though for many of us we start out with a guilt free natural attraction to larger rather than thinner people (I recall mine being as early as the fourth grade), society interferes with our instincts.
> 
> Any FA, even the most open and out of the closet, has had to deal with second guesses about their feelings.



I don't think that's true at all. I think it has to do with how much you value society's approval in general, or how much contempt you have for society's preferences.

If you believe that most of society's tastes (in music, art, movies, literture, etc.) are shallow, idiotic, ugly, or possibly even perverted (given the pornification of modern culture), then it's actually quite easy_ not _to ever second guess your different tastes in this specific area either, and not to feel guilty about them.

In fact, some people might sooner second-guess or feel guilty about their feelings if they _did_ correspond with those of the bilge-water-sucking culture in which we live.


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## mergirl

kioewen said:


> I don't think that's true at all. I think it has to do with how much you value society's approval in general, or how much contempt you have for society's preferences.
> 
> If you believe that most of society's tastes (in music, art, movies, literture, etc.) are shallow, idiotic, ugly, or possibly even perverted (given the pornification of modern culture), then it's actually quite easy_ not _to ever second guess your different tastes in this specific area either, and not to feel guilty about them.
> 
> In fact, some people might sooner second-guess or feel guilty about their feelings if they _did_ correspond with those of the bilge-water-sucking culture in which we live.


I think you would have to be a pretty unfeeling person not to feel even slightly bad when your partner is sore because their legs are chaffing together, they are uncomfortable in theatre seats, they get upset not being able to find clothes to fit them, they are afraid that their health could be bad as a result of their weight...etc etc etc.. Its not about society, its about caring about your partner and not wanting them to suffer. Is this not the 'Fa guilt' we are talking about?? 
Personally, i have come to accept that i am an Fa and i cant help that fact, its just in my programming but i cant help feeling guilty that what i love in someone else is the very thing that causes them pain and/or discomfort or that they dislike about themselves, but then its not up to them to reasure me either. I guess this thread is about reasurance somehow..but i think there is only a certain amount of reasurance we can get from our peers and this will stretch to 'Its not your fault because you are made this way'. 
oh, i'm talking about 'you' in a general sense... i dont mean it personally towards you.


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## exile in thighville

kioewen said:


> I don't think that's true at all. I think it has to do with how much you value society's approval in general, or how much contempt you have for society's preferences.
> 
> If you believe that most of society's tastes (in music, art, movies, literture, etc.) are shallow, idiotic, ugly, or possibly even perverted (given the pornification of modern culture), then it's actually quite easy_ not _to ever second guess your different tastes in this specific area either, and not to feel guilty about them.
> 
> In fact, some people might sooner second-guess or feel guilty about their feelings if they _did_ correspond with those of the bilge-water-sucking culture in which we live.



it's pretty fucked to think, hey i agree with society 80% of the time, what if they're right about the other 20%? society has its bad (hitler, bush, internment camps, celine dion, fatophobia) and its good (miley cyrus)


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## kioewen

exile in thighville said:


> it's pretty fucked to think, hey i agree with society 80% of the time, what if they're right about the other 20%?



And yet I'll bet that kind of thinking is quite common, at least on the subconscious level -- hence the so-called "closet" phenomenon.


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## stan_der_man

Ben from England said:


> ...
> 
> It has struck me that when I see pictures from the past or something, pictures of when a woman was smaller, I'm just not as into them. It drives me insane! I don't want to be less turned on! I just can't help it though. It scares me and makes me feel terrible. If I were all in on a partner, I can't see it being a deal breaker, or even a major issue, in the big scheme of things on my end. I mean, I accepted my lot in terms of the difficulties my orientation poses a long time ago when it comes to being satisfied physically (which is the reason I'm open to dating skinny girls). The bottom line is, though, that I would be less attracted to a BBW if they lost alot of weight and I worry about how that would make my potential partner feel. How do others deal with this?



I don't think male FAs should feel any more guilt in how they feel about women than "regular" men do. There are plenty of stories where "regular" men found their significant other less attractive because the significant other gained weight. In many ways that is no different than a FA finding a significant other less attractive because they lose weight (this could apply to any sort of relationship actually...) Life tests our relationships in many ways, this is simply one of life's many trials and tribulations. Just as it is with "regular" males, as long as you enter a relationship with realistic expectations, respect for your partner and have a sincere regard for their well being, you'll do fine... there is nothing to feel guilty about.


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## Captain Save

Society might be right on the remaining 20 percent; there is, however, a lot of what gets disseminated to the public just for the benefit of a select few that we all have an obligation as adults in a free society to be wary of. We as adults pick our poisons, be they cigarettes, liquor, food, bad relationships, etc, and take responsibility for the choices we make. Out of respect we must not assume responsibility for the choices of those we profess to love, even when we know those choices to be ill-advised; no one wants to be pitied when facing the consequences of those choices. Instead, it is our responsibility in a loving relationship to help our SO when we can, and compensate for their shortcomings as they do for us. If my cooking leaves much to be desired, maybe she can do better. If she gets winded easily, maybe I can carry the groceries instead. If the theater is uncomfortable, maybe a drive-in or movie night at home would be more comfortable. Yes, it hurts to see the one you love in pain; if the guilt is not conquered, on both sides, neither of you will be able to enjoy the relationship, and that would be the sad part.


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## butch

A few thoughts, if I may:

a) depending on your definition of fat, there are plenty of fat people toddling around the world in their senior years, my parents being two of them. They're both 'morbidly obese,' and my dad in particular is one active 71 year old fat man

b) so many of the health concerns linked to fatness are the same health concerns linked to other 'marginalized' groups, and so how do we know what percentage of those health issues aren't really attributed to the stress of living in a fat-hating culture? If there was less fat phobia in the world, there would be more healthy, old fat people, I think

c) before 'gay liberation' really took off in Western cultures, don't you think GLBTQ people had similar feelings? The only 'cure' for them was to agitate for the acceptance of their love as being normal and as neccesary as heterosexual love to one's own mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual well being.

d) I can't stress enough the health benefits of love and companionship. I know BeaBea pointed out a survey that shows that unmarried women live longer than married ones, but I bet unmarried women who aren't forming loving relationships with others through their lifetime don't live longer than married women. If you love fat people, being with them is one of the most loving, and health supporting thing you can do.

If I might use myself as an example: I am getting very close to 40. In that time, I'd never had a relationship with another person that was pleasurable to me. I'd dated a bit, but nothing that either turned me on or built up an emotional intimacy with another person. I live in a world that tells me that fat people are unattractive, and thus unworthy of love, and I internalised it (along with the struggles that come with being queer), so that made my ability to find love and companionship that much harder.

I've only now, in the past year, had a relationship (a brief one, alas) that allowed me to finally grasp what it felt like to be loved and to be desired by another person, and it transformed me in many ways. Ways that hadn't happened through SA, through therapy, and through other activities surrounding self-improvement. I went from being someone who didn't give a damn about my health to someone who finally, after years of avoidance, went to the doctor for a check-up and ongoing health care, I started eating better and being more invested in the upkeep of my own body, and I started to feel more confident in my basic goodness as a person.

Funny, too, that when I went to the doctor, they didn't find anything scary. No diabetes, no high cholesterol, nothing wrong with the lady bits, etc. I do have high blood pressure, easily managed with a cheap drug, and I don't have problems with my joints, even with a history of crippling arthritis in my family. 

I don't know if any of this helps with FA guilt, but please, think of all the good you bring to your partner when you love them, and how powerful love really is to make our lives better, brighter, and fuller, no matter our size.


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## mergirl

You are the best!!


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## Tad

A quick follow on to what Butch was saying (and I'm pretty sure this has been discussed in the health forum, but I don't remember the thread): there has been a pretty well documented 'winner effect' on health. One example is that the winners of Oscar awards live longer, on average, than those who have been nominated but who didn't win. Truly. And the same shows up in a lot of other places. The current thinking is that the way our bodies react to 'being on top' or being lower down the pecking order literally does impact our health.

So what Butch says about the health issues of fat people overlapping the health issues of other marginalized groups could be very literally true, that the very fact of being marginalized may tend to give them similar health issues.

"May," "could," "might".....all conjecture, at least for now. But a pretty strong conjecture I think.

What can an FA do? We can't affect all aspects of their life, but we can do our best to make our partners feel like winners, be that in how we interact with them, or even in how we present ourselves to the world.

ETA: I just remembered that I tried to take on one facet of FA guilt in one of my stories, the (deliberately) ungrammatically entitled "Me & Michelle." In the Dims library at: http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24715 No deep answers to all of life's questions, but I tried to catch one or two of the issues discussed here at the time.


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## Carrie

butch said:


> d) I can't stress enough the health benefits of love and companionship. I know BeaBea pointed out a survey that shows that unmarried women live longer than married ones, but I bet unmarried women who aren't forming loving relationships with others through their lifetime don't live longer than married women. If you love fat people, being with them is one of the most loving, and health supporting thing you can do.
> 
> If I might use myself as an example: I am getting very close to 40. In that time, I'd never had a relationship with another person that was pleasurable to me. I'd dated a bit, but nothing that either turned me on or built up an emotional intimacy with another person. I live in a world that tells me that fat people are unattractive, and thus unworthy of love, and I internalised it (along with the struggles that come with being queer), so that made my ability to find love and companionship that much harder.
> 
> I've only now, in the past year, had a relationship (a brief one, alas) that allowed me to finally grasp what it felt like to be loved and to be desired by another person, and it transformed me in many ways. Ways that hadn't happened through SA, through therapy, and through other activities surrounding self-improvement. I went from being someone who didn't give a damn about my health to someone who finally, after years of avoidance, went to the doctor for a check-up and ongoing health care, I started eating better and being more invested in the upkeep of my own body, and I started to feel more confident in my basic goodness as a person.
> 
> Funny, too, that when I went to the doctor, they didn't find anything scary. No diabetes, no high cholesterol, nothing wrong with the lady bits, etc. I do have high blood pressure, easily managed with a cheap drug, and I don't have problems with my joints, even with a history of crippling arthritis in my family.
> 
> I don't know if any of this helps with FA guilt, but please, think of all the good you bring to your partner when you love them, and how powerful love really is to make our lives better, brighter, and fuller, no matter our size.



A post this beautiful and truth-telling deserves some kind of award. :happy:


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## mergirl

Carrie said:


> A post this beautiful and truth-telling deserves some kind of award. :happy:


I know right? Hmm..'The beautiful truthy award'?.. or what about...
'The butchie'??

Whatever we call it, butch just won it!!:wubu:


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## Tina

Santaclear said:


> I see no reason for FAs to feel guilty. Why should we feel guilty for having good taste? :smitten: (I use the smiley but I am serious.)
> 
> A person's health is ultimately his or her own responsibility. If you're feeding your partner to illness or death, then, yeah, that's guilty, but otherwise....being supportive, loving and positive is the biggest part of what it's about.
> 
> I don't agree at all that it's hard to be an FA. I feel we're *privileged*, that we've got a lucky secret maybe the rest of the world doesn't know about (yet!) and that fat people and FAs are lucky to find each other. :wubu::wubu:


I very much agree, Santa. 


Dr. P Marshall said:


> FA dates a 500 pound fat person. The fat person starts having health issues and loses weight. The fat partner is now around 300, let's say, still fat, and is healthy, happy, etc. The FA is thrilled that his/her partner is happy, healthy, etc, but can't deny to themselves that they STILL found their partner sexier at 500 pounds EVEN WITH KNOWING ALL OF THE PROBLEMS IT CAUSED. Many FAs are going to feel that that is like saying "damn it why can't I find her/him attractive at the healthier size. Why do I find the sicker version more attractive and yearn for it still. AND WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT ME AS A PERSON?"
> 
> And then the FA knows that this will be true of every person over and over. Now, of course, my example pertains to SSBBW/SSBHM, but that concept as a whole, I think, floats around the minds of many FAs who prefer smaller partners as well because instead of health issues, it could be joint pain, or no longer being able to do something they like. It isn't about owning the partner's fat, it's that you can't be sexually as happy if your partner becomes a different size even if you are still happy with the relationship. I really think a lot of FA guilt is summed up in the "what sort of person does that make me" way.  There is also the fact that many fat people were in some way unhappy with their weight at one time. While I understand that being an FA is not something to be guilty about in general and that being fat is not a bad thing, it can make you wonder about yourself that the quality in your partner you find very sexually attractive may be the very thing that made her/his life unhappy in the past. And while yes, FAs often help make the lives of fat people very happy when they are in a relationship with one of us, the general concept that you are attracted to something that someone has to learn to accept about themselves in the first place can make you feel sometimes like you're attracted to a negative. (Obviously, I don't mean that being fat is negative, but the idea that it can cause so many negative experiences for fat people).


Dr. P, I always enjoy your posts so much. I'm not so much an FA as just someone who likes lots of different body parts to be various sizes. Sounds naughtily cryptic, I guess, but mostly, like with my taste in everything else, there isn't just one size and cut of man-bod that does it for me. I can see what you're saying though, Dr., as someone who has had ups and downs with my own bod and its health and mobility. If only I had an anti-gravity doohickey I'd be golden, but yes, gravity and other factors can cause problems. You can't help what you like and find aesthetically pleasing, though, and I wouldn't fault anyone for it. The only thing I fault in is blatant insensitivity about it that we occasionally see from an FA who truly doesn't care if a person's fat impacts their health and just wants them bigger and bigger. Most of the FAs I've known have this conflict of which many are speaking, and I'm not sure what's to be done for it except to be as honest, helpful and sensitive -- and appreciative -- as possible with your partner/potential partner. 

Beyond that, none of us knows how long we have on this earth. Wasn't it that health doctor, Pritikin, who dropped dead from a heart attack after a run? Primum non nocere; after that, enjoy life and milk it for all you can -- with your fat honey.


----------



## liz (di-va)

butch said:


> I don't know if any of this helps with FA guilt, but please, think of all the good you bring to your partner when you love them, and how powerful love really is to make our lives better, brighter, and fuller, no matter our size.


yah, that's the stuff


----------



## butch

Thanks for the kind words, mer, Carrie, Ed, Liz. That post made me feel a bit vulnerable, so glad to see it was effective.:blush:


----------



## olwen

So, I've been thinking more about this guilt thing and I'm sure it bothers me more than I realized at first....I could just say as I already have - "I don't feel guilty so don't feel guilty either," but I think maybe there's more to it than that, but it's difficult for me to explain...

....I didn't know I was "supposed" to be able to see my feet until I was a teen and someone brought it up, and it came up often after that. I never felt strange about that until people kept bringing it up. Now, I wonder if those people felt a sort of pity for me for not only not being able to do something they could do but for not being "normal" as well. 

So I wonder if for some of you who do feel guilt, is there an underlying feeling of pity over the things your partners can't do or the aches and pains and general discomfort that sometimes come with being fat? 

I get feeling guilty about being turned on by something that might make your partner uncomfortable, but is that all there is to it? Does pity not factor into it at all?


----------



## Dr. P Marshall

butch said:


> A few thoughts, if I may...


I repped you, but I wanted to thank you publicly for this beautiful post.:bow:


Tina said:


> Dr. P, I always enjoy your posts so much...


Thank you for the compliment and thank you for _this_ beautiful post. :bow:There are so many great posts in this thread I am getting repped out all of the time.


olwen said:


> I get feeling guilty about being turned on by something that might make your partner uncomfortable, but is that all there is to it? Does pity not factor into it at all?



OK, deep breath. I am going to address this question since I seem determined to wade into every uncomfortable topic here lately. As usual, I am speaking only for me. I actually have no idea if any other FA/FFAs feel this way. But I will say that I have wrestled with more than guilt, but it is NOT pity. I would call it FFA fear. Now before I explain this, let me first say that I have read and appreciated and believed all of the wonderful and supportive and kind posts that the non-FA and fat FAs have written here. I also have had others help me with these issues long ago, so this is not how I feel now, but I have wrestled with "FFA fear" in the past. I'm not just talking about health concerns or "what does that say about me as a person" type of things. I think I have feared sometimes that fat people feel that they are settling for FA/FFAs. The thread about the skinny pill, the answers to that, that's the type of thing that made me wonder in the past if fat people felt being with an FA/FFA was some sort of compromise because many people would still prefer to be thin. So as an FFA, the question becomes, is there regret on the part of the fat partner when they choose to accept themselves and someone who loves them as they are when they're fat, but would be thin tomorrow if they could be? Will there be regret at some point down the road? Does knowing I'm an FFA mean that the fat partner thinks I'm not capable of being a good partner anymore if they become thin? Do they feel that taking me on as a partner is saying goodbye to the option of being thin? Will they resent me for that if they do believe that? These are the sort of questions that have plagued me in the past. That's more what I would say is the flip side to FA/FFA guilt for me. Fears about how the fat person really does feel about me as an FFA or how they may feel down the road. 

Again, I'm not saying I think that now, or ever completely believed it, but in terms of the things that I've wrestled with in my head and the things that have worried me in the past, these issues would be right up there with guilt. It's not pity that the fat partner can't do things they could or anything like that, it's fear about how the fat partner will feel about themselves and by extension me if there is regret or frustration about their size. Does that make any sense? And of course, I'm speaking only for me. I'm just trying to be really honest here because 1) I'm crazy about olwen and she asked and 2) it took me a while to really put my finger on what that feeling was all this time and when I saw pity written there, I knew it definitely wasn't that, but that there was something else. So thank you for helping me put a name to it finally.


----------



## olwen

Dr. P Marshall said:


> I repped you, but I wanted to thank you publicly for this beautiful post.:bow:
> 
> Thank you for the compliment and thank you for _this_ beautiful post. :bow:There are so many great posts in this thread I am getting repped out all of the time.
> 
> 
> OK, deep breath. I am going to address this question since I seem determined to wade into every uncomfortable topic here lately. As usual, I am speaking only for me. I actually have no idea if any other FA/FFAs feel this way. But I will say that I have wrestled with more than guilt, but it is NOT pity. I would call it FFA fear. Now before I explain this, let me first say that I have read and appreciated and believed all of the wonderful and supportive and kind posts that the non-FA and fat FAs have written here. I also have had others help me with these issues long ago, so this is not how I feel now, but I have wrestled with "FFA fear" in the past. I'm not just talking about health concerns or "what does that say about me as a person" type of things. I think I have feared sometimes that fat people feel that they are settling for FA/FFAs. The thread about the skinny pill, the answers to that, that's the type of thing that made me wonder in the past if fat people felt being with an FA/FFA was some sort of compromise because many people would still prefer to be thin. So as an FFA, the question becomes, is there regret on the part of the fat partner when they choose to accept themselves and someone who loves them as they are when they're fat, but would be thin tomorrow if they could be? Will there be regret at some point down the road? Does knowing I'm an FFA mean that the fat partner thinks I'm not capable of being a good partner anymore if they become thin? Do they feel that taking me on as a partner is saying goodbye to the option of being thin? Will they resent me for that if they do believe that? These are the sort of questions that have plagued me in the past. That's more what I would say is the flip side to FA/FFA guilt for me. Fears about how the fat person really does feel about me as an FFA or how they may feel down the road.
> 
> Again, I'm not saying I think that now, or ever completely believed it, but in terms of the things that I've wrestled with in my head and the things that have worried me in the past, these issues would be right up there with guilt. It's not pity that the fat partner can't do things they could or anything like that, it's fear about how the fat partner will feel about themselves and by extension me if there is regret or frustration about their size. Does that make any sense? And of course, I'm speaking only for me. I'm just trying to be really honest here because 1) I'm crazy about olwen and she asked and 2) it took me a while to really put my finger on what that feeling was all this time and when I saw pity written there, I knew it definitely wasn't that, but that there was something else. So thank you for helping me put a name to it finally.



Wow Dr. P, thanks for your honesty. I can honestly say the questions you bring up are new concepts for me. I have never ever once had any of those thoughts, tho I guess it is possible for some. It's just never occurred to me that I would be settling for an FA....it makes me want to laugh and cry to think fatness has the ability to confound and fascinate us so thoroughly....I'm grateful FAs are out there and I'd hate to think of the kind of person I'd be without them. 

I'm guessing too you can't have been the only FA to have had those questions at some point. I'm glad to hear that pity isn't something you've ever felt for fat people. I can't imagine you'd ever feel that way actually....your questions are a lot to take in right now. I'll have to think about it some since I'm not sure what else to say right now, except again, thanks for the response. This is really deep stuff, and I kind of wish it wasn't. Deep stuff isn't bad, but it would be nice if fatness was really easy for all involved.

Oh, and you're welcome re the naming thing.


----------



## Captain Save

The questions and concerns you expressed here are the very same as those which would send me screaming to the looney bin if I let them. It is simple respect that will not allow me to feel pity for a BBW, and compassion that will not allow me to ignore her limitations and discomforts. It is her feeling and mine about her being fat, and how any change to that would affect our relationship. There are those who would terminate the relationship; it would be a deal breaker. Others love the identity of the person, not the body style. If I revealed any indecision, would she decide the fate of our relationship for us both?

I'm going to try to stuff this question back into that box marked, 'Do Not Open.'


----------



## olwen

Captain Save said:


> The questions and concerns you expressed here are the very same as those which would send me screaming to the looney bin if I let them. It is simple respect that will not allow me to feel pity for a BBW, and compassion that will not allow me to ignore her limitations and discomforts. It is her feeling and mine about her being fat, and how any change to that would affect our relationship. There are those who would terminate the relationship; it would be a deal breaker. Others love the identity of the person, not the body style. If I revealed any indecision, would she decide the fate of our relationship for us both?
> 
> I'm going to try to stuff this question back into that box marked, 'Do Not Open.'



Any more responses like this and I'm gonna start to think my question was ridiculous and that's probably a good thing.


----------



## Captain Save

Please don't do that; I enjoy your questions. Besides, your question allows an opportunity for personal growth and understanding.

:bow:


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## olwen

Captain Save said:


> Please don't do that; I enjoy your questions. Besides, your question allows an opportunity for personal growth and understanding.
> 
> :bow:



Thank you. Thank you very much.


----------



## Dr. P Marshall

I've been thinking about this a lot since I wrote my last post. In an earlier post I said a lot of FA guilt could be summed up as "what does that say about me as a person?" But I think, if some of us as FAs are really honest with ourselves, the issues about health, and subtle pressure just by being what we are, and esteem issues and all the things I put under "FA fear," I think the other question some of us may have asked ourselves at times is, "is a fat person better off with a non-FA?" Any fat person. In other words, are we as FAs really a good thing? Now, to be clear, I firmly believe the answer to that question is yes, but I think some of the guilt and struggle and ambivalence we feel at times is really at heart about that question. And that's a painful question to ask yourself, believe me. I hope most of us believe it is good to be an FA and that the world is a better place because there are FAs, but I suspect that I am not the only FA who ever doubted that in the past. Or who wished that they weren't an FA at one point. I want to explain that one, by the way. The times where I wished I wasn't an FFA had nothing to do with me wanting things to be easier, or hoping I could be attracted to the men society said I should. The reason in the past I have at times wished I wasn't an FFA was that I didn't want to be attracted to something that can be at times such an emotional, personal and even painful (emotionally and physically) thing for the men I find attractive. Again, I don't feel this way now and I don't think any FA or FFA should, but if we're going to be completely honest, that fear that I am a detriment to someone I care about/am attracted to is definitely something that has worried me in the past. I'm starting to think a lot of what we call FA guilt, really is FA fear. Anyway, I hope that makes it a little clearer for some about how it has been for me. I'm not trying to be negative at all, at this point in my life I AM very happy and proud to be an FFA, but I think some or all of these things do play a part in why some of us have a harder time coming to terms with it than others, even if we never spend any time "in the closet."


----------



## mergirl

olwen said:


> So, I've been thinking more about this guilt thing and I'm sure it bothers me more than I realized at first....I could just say as I already have - "I don't feel guilty so don't feel guilty either," but I think maybe there's more to it than that, but it's difficult for me to explain...
> 
> ....I didn't know I was "supposed" to be able to see my feet until I was a teen and someone brought it up, and it came up often after that. I never felt strange about that until people kept bringing it up. Now, I wonder if those people felt a sort of pity for me for not only not being able to do something they could do but for not being "normal" as well.
> 
> So I wonder if for some of you who do feel guilt, is there an underlying feeling of pity over the things your partners can't do or the aches and pains and general discomfort that sometimes come with being fat?
> 
> I get feeling guilty about being turned on by something that might make your partner uncomfortable, but is that all there is to it? Does pity not factor into it at all?


A pretty open and honest person told me recently in not so many words. If you are not something then you can never understand it totally. There is only so much the person you are trying to understand can explain it to you and there is a point where you just have to accept that you wont /can't get it. 
Talking for myself, 'pity' is not something i have even considered when talking about, thinking about or have been with a fat person. This makes me wonder if it is something you have thought or felt, perhaps because you know what it feels like to be fat. 
Maby, it is different for skinny Fa's, but i doubt it. How can you 'pity' the very thing you admire? This is a contradiction in terms.


----------



## Tad

Darn, could only rep one of Dr. P's two recent posts! But both so good.

With regards to pity: My first reaction was "Never!" In that I think fat is awesome so why would I pity anyone who was fat?

But thinking about it a bit more, I may pity some fatter folk whose life has been circumscribed by their fatness. Mostly when they've let someone else's definition of what a fat person is circumscribe then. I realize not everyone is ready to face down society all on their own, so I guess when I see big people who are living their life in a small way because of their size, I probably do feel pity (and frustration at the waste of it all, and anger at anyone whose ever told them that they should live that way). But this is not really so specefic to being an FA, I get much the same response to anyone whose been limited by the biasses of those around them.


----------



## mergirl

Olwen was talking about the guilt feelings we get, she suggests we also feel pity. I think it is impossible to feel pity for someone you are attracted to. I may feel pity for some people who are disabled because of their size especially if it is out with their control. I guess the same amount of pity that someone who is attracted to 'skinny' chicks feels for someone so weak because of anorexia they cannot live their lives in any semblance of their interal imaginings of their lives. 
I just dont think if you are in a relationship with someone that attraction and desire are compatable with pity.. 
If you 'pity fuck' someone, then you are not 'truly' attracted to them, you just feel sorry for them. Guilt, on the other hand i think is pretty normal in most relationships, its just that Fa's face a specific kind of guilt. Fa guilt cannot be confused with pity. Though, i dont think its impossible for fat people to transfer 'self pity' onto an Fa, and think that the Fa pities them. which is a real shame. The amount of times you hear fat people asking Fa's "so WHY exactly do you fancy me?" "WHAT is it you are attracted to exactly?" is quite remarkable (even within 'fat circles). "what IS it about FAT you like so much?" ...etc. Maby there are some people who have relationships with/pity fat people but they are not Fa's they are just pricks.


----------



## Cors

I feel bad thinking about how a fat partner cannot do some things we take for granted, and it makes me sad thinking about the discrimination they face but I wouldn't call that pity. 

Pity is not something on my mind, but it can be triggered by someone who is excessively negative, constantly wallowing in self-pity, dismissing all my efforts at reassurance and even taking out her frustration on me. I consider myself a fairly patient person, but I can't deal with getting drained like that for months especially if there is no visible improvement. By then, my attraction and respect for that person would have died and then yes, I might start pitying them. Not for their size or their inability to do certain things, but for their defeatist attitude. :/


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## Dr. P Marshall

mergirl said:


> Olwen was talking about the guilt feelings we get, she suggests we also feel pity. I think it is impossible to feel pity for someone you are attracted to. I may feel pity for some people who are disabled because of their size especially if it is out with their control. I guess the same amount of pity that someone who is attracted to 'skinny' chicks feels for someone so weak because of anorexia they cannot live their lives in any semblance of their interal imaginings of their lives.
> I just dont think if you are in a relationship with someone that attraction and desire are compatable with pity..
> If you 'pity fuck' someone, then you are not 'truly' attracted to them, you just feel sorry for them. Guilt, on the other hand i think is pretty normal in most relationships, its just that Fa's face a specific kind of guilt. Fa guilt cannot be confused with pity. Though, i dont think its impossible for fat people to transfer 'self pity' onto an Fa, and think that the Fa pities them. which is a real shame. The amount of times you hear fat people asking Fa's "so WHY exactly do you fancy me?" "WHAT is it you are attracted to exactly?" is quite remarkable (even within 'fat circles). "what IS it about FAT you like so much?" ...etc. Maby there are some people who have relationships with/pity fat people but they are not Fa's they are just pricks.



One of the reason's I like olwen's questions in particular is that I often as an FFA feel that I start to understand where there can be a disconnect between fat people and FA/FFAs about certain topics. In the case of this one, I think there is a tendency to think of thin or thinner FA/FFAs as thin people first and FAs second. At least that's how I feel when the issue of pity or something like that is brought up. I think people sometimes forget or perhaps never understood in the first place what being an FA feels like. Yes, I can have guilt and doubt, but the truth is when talking about BHM, you're still talking about my physical ideal. So if I meet a man who is physically what I want and he's funny, smart, etc, etc, he's going to have the same impact on me as a brilliant, witty Brad Pitt look alike would have on a heterosexual non-FFA. I think for many of us, all theorizing goes out the window when confronted with actual people. Even here on the boards. Most FAs admit to feeling some sort of FA guilt when they think about things(or they felt it in the past), but i can pretty much guarantee almost no one feels FA guilt when looking at the paysite board.(They may feel guilt for other reasons, if say, they have an SO or something). No one is looking at those women with pity, that's for sure and most likely not with guilt, what they are probably thinking (if they're thinking at all ) is "man is she hot!"

And for me as a straight FFA, my being an FFA still impacts how I view BBW. In other words, I know a beautiful woman when I see one, so even if I am not sexually attracted to, say a paysite model here, but I see her picture and she's gorgeous, of course I get that the male and lesbian FAs would be absolutely awestruck by her. Or to use a less primal example, there are many women who participate on this board who I know from pictures they've posted in the "recent picture thread" or from their avatar, are really beautiful and then they're funny and smart and I know that from the board, and yeah, I would EXPECT the FA/FFAs who are attracted to women to be into them. 

I think a lot of times fat people who question why an FA/FFA is attracted to them are projecting their own fears, thoughts, insecurities onto the FA whether they realize it or not. It's understandable, especially when talking about thinner FAs and if the fat person has had more negative responses/reactions from other thin people in their lives about their weight. But I think the thing to remember is that a lot of FA/FFAs don't place any meaning or read anything into someone being fat the way some non-FAs who give people a hard time about their weight might. We see fat as something attractive and sexually arousing. We see fat people as a physical ideal so I assume most of us are like me and don't think fat is negative in any way. Now acknowledging that society thinks it is and being understanding or sympathetic to the fact that a fat partner is going to get grief for their weight is a different matter. Worrying about someone's health and comfort is a different matter. That's really more about being concerned for who you care about. And I think a lot of that FA hand wringing is still more generalized. If you're in a relationship with a healthy, active fat partner who is happy with themselves, you're not going to worry about their health any more than you would the health of thin people in your life that you care about, unless the status of their health changes and you know it is weight related. And if that did happen, I'd be more worried that I as an FFA was not being as supportive as I was trying to be for some reason, or the fact I was an FFA was making it difficult for some reason. I would NOT be pitying my partner for being fat. The general and specific can be very different things in this situation. That's my take on it anyway.

Oh and I was not implying that olwen or anyone in this thread was projecting anything. The point about projecting was in reference to mer's point about people who ask an FA they're dating why the FA finds them attractive.


----------



## imfree

I wonder if there's such a thing as TA guilt?

Snarky, but it's a question that could be
seriously asked.


----------



## mergirl

I think olwen or anyone who is fat 'could' project a number of things onto Fa's with or without realising it for any number of reasons. I think this is part of the Fa/Fat divide. An example of this was when i asked 'Why would Fa's stay 'closeted'?'. To me, as an Fa this is a really important question because it encompasses sexuality,guilt,adolecence,realisation etc etc. Questions and answers that i personally need/want to hear from other Fa's for my personal development/self acceptance as an Fa/To greater understand Fa guilt etc etc. BUT which might make fat people feel shitty hearing or reading. (to be honest something i hadn't actually invisioned or i wouldnt have posted)
Many fat people reacted badly to that thread because it winded them..In a size acceptance site, should it not be that their fat sexuality be supported at all costs and at all times? Then why should they hear stories of younge people struggling to tell their friends they were dating a fat woman? Why should the young Fa NOT talk about his bad experiences? 
I think as Fa's we have to accept that our realisations, our self actualisations, our fantasy, our learning, is seperate from fat people's personal body acceptance, or even just their yearning for a space where their fat is not called into question.
Ours is a sexuality, and as such we need and hunger to explore it, why? when? where? how? we need to explore what are our depths and pitfalls, what are our bredths and limits.. 
Fat, although sometimes a sexuality is generally not, and so not so much time is spent considering it, well not so much as an Fa considers it anyway..though perhaps more than a non fat person considers their body. So, we ask of different things, Have differing relationships with each other and need different information/discussion. There are places we meet in the middle of course but there is usually some sort of undercurrent of conflict. I'm glad we get to address this though because it could have festered.


----------



## mergirl

imfree said:


> I wonder if there's such a thing as TA guilt?
> 
> Snarky, but it's a question that could be
> seriously asked.


Thin people within their 'normal' BMI? I would guess not.
People who love 'in particular' people very underweight...i think might feel guilt ..yes.


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## Diego

This problem is the exact one that means I don't post here much anymore.


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## mergirl

Diego said:


> This problem is the exact one that means I don't post here much anymore.


Sorry, which problem? The Fa/Fat divide or Fa guilt? Or neither? lol


----------



## Diego

mergirl said:


> Sorry, which problem? The Fa/Fat divide or Fa guilt? Or neither? lol



Hehe! The FA guilt. 

Now it makes me feel a bit like I don't appreciate Andreas (sexually) for the right reason! I am happy because FA is not making up my whole sexuality but is a big part too that i can not just ignore. I don't think i can ever say anything to him.


----------



## mergirl

Diego said:


> Hehe! The FA guilt.
> 
> Now it makes me feel a bit like I don't appreciate Andreas (sexually) for the right reason! I am happy because FA is not making up my whole sexuality but is a big part too that i can not just ignore. I don't think i can ever say anything to him.


Ahhh.. I think the fact you feel 'Fa guilt' gives you more reason to post here!. We have all felt this and its 'normal', i am discovering as far as loving fat goes. Fat IS your sexuality which is nothing to be ashamed of. I truly believe we do not chose our sexualities, and whether they be genetic or not they are a part of us and therefore are natural. 
You do appreciate your partner for the right reasons. Sexually, because you are attracted to him. There must be more though, or you wouldnt be 'with' him. 
I also dont think you 'have' to say anything to him about being an 'fa' .. Fa is a kinna made up term anyway.. You just tell him, you love his body..you wont be lying!! 
Its not just Fat you love. Do you think you could love a big woman just as much? (i think i remember you saying you were gay-if you are bi-straight sorry). Thins means that your gender sexuality is a powerful thing too. If it were all about 'fat, then everyone here would be bisexual, with no preference, except for the type of fat they enjoyed! 
Anyway, your sexuality is bigger than fat..Its maby just that the fat loving side of you was denied for a while so it became more important.. or thought about more..
Try not to worry about your sexuality and try to enjoy it. This Fa guilt thing..i really do think it happens to us all..


----------



## Tad

Another way of looking at the pity question: do heterosexual women pity men for being men? Do heterosexual men pity women for being women? Maybe in some cases, but I'm pretty sure the usual reaction is more along the lines of "No! I like them for what they are "


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## Diego

mergirl said:


> Ahhh.. I think the fact you feel 'Fa guilt' gives you more reason to post here!. We have all felt this and its 'normal', i am discovering as far as loving fat goes. Fat IS your sexuality which is nothing to be ashamed of. I truly believe we do not chose our sexualities, and whether they be genetic or not they are a part of us and therefore are natural.
> You do appreciate your partner for the right reasons. Sexually, because you are attracted to him. There must be more though, or you wouldnt be 'with' him.
> I also dont think you 'have' to say anything to him about being an 'fa' .. Fa is a kinna made up term anyway.. You just tell him, you love his body..you wont be lying!!
> Its not just Fat you love. Do you think you could love a big woman just as much? (i think i remember you saying you were gay-if you are bi-straight sorry). Thins means that your gender sexuality is a powerful thing too. If it were all about 'fat, then everyone here would be bisexual, with no preference, except for the type of fat they enjoyed!
> Anyway, your sexuality is bigger than fat..Ifs maby just that the fat loving side of you was denied for a while so it became more important.. or thought about more..
> Try not to worry about your sexuality and try to enjoy it. This Fa guilt thing..i really do think it happens to us all..



That is why I worry because he is not like the body i dream about (i'm saying he is in shape). He is satisfying to me, it is not that and I love him so much. Just that the FA part has to be buried and because i have hunger for that in my life it is not there and i am worrying that one day i will want more than just him and hate myself because of that.

Thank you for being so nice.


----------



## mergirl

edx said:


> Another way of looking at the pity question: do heterosexual women pity men for being men? Do heterosexual men pity women for being women? Maybe in some cases, but I'm pretty sure the usual reaction is more along the lines of "No! I like them for what they are "


yeah..maby in films about psychotic seriel killers!! 
goddam men and their stinky naughy bits.!!. i pity the fools!!.. must chop em up!!
*and the next thing i knew oprah was making a film outta ma life!!*


----------



## mergirl

Diego said:


> That is why I worry because he is not like the body i dream about (i'm saying he is in shape). He is satisfying to me, it is not that and I love him so much. Just that the FA part has to be buried and because i have hunger for that in my life it is not there and i am worrying that one day i will want more than just him and hate myself because of that.
> 
> Thank you for being so nice.


ahh i see. Sorry i assumed your partner was fat. Well, you know, i think this in itself could be a topic for another thread. 'Fa's who love thin people-will they constantly be yearning or will they find peace?'.
Personally Diago, I dont know, because on one hand, i wouldn't seek out a thin partner, in fact Fat people are the only type of people who normally catch my eye. On the other hand if i was in love with someone and they lost weight i dont think i could reconcile, them losing weight with leaving them.. To be honest i have no idea how i would react to this, as it hasn't happened. 
Anyway, dont take advice from me..when i realised i was gay i was with a guy and when i realised i was an Fa i was with a thin person.. both of which were dumped and i felt shit for a while..
I guess though.. if you are in a relationship with someone you aren't sexually attracted to/engaged with doesnt that just mean you are freinds? 
hmm... this is TOTALLY new thread worthy!! lol 
Who knows what you will want in the future though..i think the important thing is..what you want now. 
xx
*disclaimer-GD- when i said lose weight i ment to the point of being 'skinny'..which lets face it..just isnt going to happen.. being bi-sizual i will totally want to hump you at pretty much any weight.. so no worries ..btw..get out of the Fa forum!!!!! .*


----------



## Diego

mergirl said:


> ahh i see. Sorry i assumed your partner was fat. Well, you know, i think this in itself could be a topic for another thread. 'Fa's who love thin people-will they constantly be yearning or will they find peace?'.
> Personally Diago, I dont know, because on one hand, i wouldn't seek out a thin partner, in fact Fat people are the only type of people who normally catch my eye. On the other hand if i was in love with someone and they lost weight i dont think i could reconcile, them losing weight with leaving them.. To be honest i have no idea how i would react to this, as it hasn't happened.
> Anyway, dont take advice from me..when i realised i was gay i was with a guy and when i realised i was an Fa i was with a thin person.. both of which were dumped and i felt shit for a while..
> I guess though.. if you are in a relationship with someone you aren't sexually attracted to/engaged with doesnt that just mean you are freinds?
> hmm... this is TOTALLY new thread worthy!! lol
> Who knows what you will want in the future though..i think the important thing is..what you want now.
> xx
> *disclaimer-GD- when i said lose weight i ment to the point of being 'skinny'..which lets face it..just isnt going to happen.. being bi-sizual i will totally want to hump you at pretty much any weight.. so no worries ..btw..get out of the Fa forum!!!!! .*



Yeah i see is harder to understand because you are not liking thin people at all. But with me it is like i am bisizual, for thin men and large men and a bit in denial for one half of that. So you see i can live with not being with a big guy but is going to be hard not to think about that at all. I _am_ sexually attracted to him because i like all male anatomy still , so we have no problem there. 

Funny how you found about you the way you did! I think many of people take a long while to find who they are deep down though. That is ok.


----------



## mergirl

ahh i see. Well, i guess its like bi-sexually identified people who have only ever been with one gender. They can love/be attracted to the gender of the person they are with but might yearn a bit for the other. There is a big difference between curiosity and denial though. Do you think you feel like this because you have never been with a fat man? Or is it just that you 'know' you would prefer to be with one? I dont understand your guilt if you are bi-sizual and have a thin partner any more than i would understand a bi female being guilty for going out with a man..
Glad you are sexually attracted to him though!


----------



## AnnMarie

Dr. P Marshall said:


> I've been thinking about this a lot since I wrote my last post. In an earlier post I said a lot of FA guilt could be summed up as "what does that say about me as a person?" But I think, if some of us as FAs are really honest with ourselves, the issues about health, and subtle pressure just by being what we are, and esteem issues and all the things I put under "FA fear," I think the other question some of us may have asked ourselves at times is, "is a fat person better off with a non-FA?" Any fat person. In other words, are we as FAs really a good thing? Now, to be clear, I firmly believe the answer to that question is yes, but I think some of the guilt and struggle and ambivalence we feel at times is really at heart about that question. And that's a painful question to ask yourself, believe me. I hope most of us believe it is good to be an FA and that the world is a better place because there are FAs, but I suspect that I am not the only FA who ever doubted that in the past. Or who wished that they weren't an FA at one point. I want to explain that one, by the way. The times where I wished I wasn't an FFA had nothing to do with me wanting things to be easier, or hoping I could be attracted to the men society said I should. The reason in the past I have at times wished I wasn't an FFA was that I didn't want to be attracted to something that can be at times such an emotional, personal and even painful (emotionally and physically) thing for the men I find attractive. Again, I don't feel this way now and I don't think any FA or FFA should, but if we're going to be completely honest, that fear that I am a detriment to someone I care about/am attracted to is definitely something that has worried me in the past. I'm starting to think a lot of what we call FA guilt, really is FA fear. Anyway, I hope that makes it a little clearer for some about how it has been for me. I'm not trying to be negative at all, at this point in my life I AM very happy and proud to be an FFA, but I think some or all of these things do play a part in why some of us have a harder time coming to terms with it than others, even if we never spend any time "in the closet."




I would NEVER be better off with a non-FA. I understand how thinking could lead that way, but I assure you that "I" and others I know feel strongly that FAs are wonderful partners and nothing less.


----------



## katherine22

imfree said:


> I wonder if there's such a thing as TA guilt?
> 
> Snarky, but it's a question that could be
> seriously asked.




Great point! People are creators of their own lives. Either we respect the autonomy and right for a person to be fat, no matter how fat, or we don't. It seems to me that this is a boundary issue. If I love someone who is 500 lbs., I am going to assume that the person is intelligent enough to understand the implications of that weight without my choosing to feel guilty which is an emotion that will not contribute to the relationship. We cannot control people . Sometimes people engage in behaviors that we might deem destructive, and there is nothing we can do about it. Ultimately, when we love someone, we love them for what they are and what they are not. 

I am glad that there are fat admirers in the world since it requires independence of thought to go against the prevailing messages of the culture to see the beauty and worthiness of fat people. One of the ideas in this thread is would fat people be better off if they were not loved by fat admirers. So it would be better to be fat and be loved by someone who despises fat who would take the fat person on as a health cause celebre, commenting about every pound gained, every bite of food ingested. 

When I see the women on the paid site, at peril of sounding romantic I think that those women are living a vision of themselves. A question becomes what price are you willing to pay to live an aesthetic vision for yourself and who has the right to tell you not to live it?


----------



## Carrie

AnnMarie said:


> I would NEVER be better off with a non-FA. I understand how thinking could lead that way, but I assure you that "I" and others I know feel strongly that FAs are wonderful partners and nothing less.


Word x 1000. I've been with both, and eeek. FAs rule. :smitten:


----------



## imfree

katherine22 said:


> Great point! People are creators of their own lives. Either we respect the autonomy and right for a person to be fat, no matter how fat, or we don't. It seems to me that this is a boundary issue. If I love someone who is 500 lbs., I am going to assume that the person is intelligent enough to understand the implications of that weight without my choosing to feel guilty which is an emotion that will not contribute to the relationship. We cannot control people . Sometimes people engage in behaviors that we might deem destructive, and there is nothing we can do about it. Ultimately, when we love someone, we love them for what they are and what they are not.
> 
> I am glad that there are fat admirers in the world since it requires independence of thought to go against the prevailing messages of the culture to see the beauty and worthiness of fat people. One of the ideas in this thread is would fat people be better off if they were not loved by fat admirers. So it would be better to be fat and be loved by someone who despises fat who would take the fat person on as a health cause celebre, commenting about every pound gained, every bite of food ingested.
> 
> *When I see the women on the paid site, at peril of sounding romantic I think that those women are living a vision of themselves. A question becomes what price are you willing to pay to live an aesthetic vision for yourself and who has the right to tell you not to live it?*



My self image is that way, exactly. I pay an already high price for being
445 lbs at 53 years old and only 5'8" tall, yet I still want to slowly and
carefully go to 500. In a way, it's kinda' like being on a high mountain
top that no one else can reach.:bow:


----------



## olwen

Dr. P Marshall said:


> I've been thinking about this a lot since I wrote my last post. In an earlier post I said a lot of FA guilt could be summed up as "what does that say about me as a person?" But I think, if some of us as FAs are really honest with ourselves, the issues about health, and subtle pressure just by being what we are, and esteem issues and all the things I put under "FA fear," I think the other question some of us may have asked ourselves at times is, "is a fat person better off with a non-FA?" Any fat person. In other words, are we as FAs really a good thing? Now, to be clear, I firmly believe the answer to that question is yes, but I think some of the guilt and struggle and ambivalence we feel at times is really at heart about that question. And that's a painful question to ask yourself, believe me. I hope most of us believe it is good to be an FA and that the world is a better place because there are FAs, but I suspect that I am not the only FA who ever doubted that in the past. Or who wished that they weren't an FA at one point. I want to explain that one, by the way. The times where I wished I wasn't an FFA had nothing to do with me wanting things to be easier, or hoping I could be attracted to the men society said I should. The reason in the past I have at times wished I wasn't an FFA was that I didn't want to be attracted to something that can be at times such an emotional, personal and even painful (emotionally and physically) thing for the men I find attractive. Again, I don't feel this way now and I don't think any FA or FFA should, but if we're going to be completely honest, that fear that I am a detriment to someone I care about/am attracted to is definitely something that has worried me in the past. I'm starting to think a lot of what we call FA guilt, really is FA fear. Anyway, I hope that makes it a little clearer for some about how it has been for me. I'm not trying to be negative at all, at this point in my life I AM very happy and proud to be an FFA, but I think some or all of these things do play a part in why some of us have a harder time coming to terms with it than others, even if we never spend any time "in the closet."



My first thought after reading this was to wonder if you've ever think fat people feel pity for FAs? 

FA fear vs. FA guilt - that distinction makes this idea clearer for me I think so thanks for that.



mergirl said:


> A pretty open and honest person told me recently in not so many words. If you are not something then you can never understand it totally. There is only so much the person you are trying to understand can explain it to you and there is a point where you just have to accept that you wont /can't get it.
> Talking for myself, 'pity' is not something i have even considered when talking about, thinking about or have been with a fat person. This makes me wonder if it is something you have thought or felt, perhaps because you know what it feels like to be fat.
> Maby, it is different for skinny Fa's, but i doubt it. How can you 'pity' the very thing you admire? This is a contradiction in terms.



I did think that this concept was something I wouldn't fully understand, but the more we all talk about it, the less cloudy it becomes. 

I see what you're saying about pity not mixing with admiration. It is not something I've ever thought to analyze, so...I was attracted to and in love with a guy who after a while I started to pity. The love was still there, but the attraction was gone by then....what you are saying makes total sense in that regard. 

Pity is something I've gotten from people at large and perhaps from friends, but never from lovers.


----------



## olwen

mergirl said:


> Olwen was talking about the guilt feelings we get, she suggests we also feel pity. I think it is impossible to feel pity for someone you are attracted to. I may feel pity for some people who are disabled because of their size especially if it is out with their control. I guess the same amount of pity that someone who is attracted to 'skinny' chicks feels for someone so weak because of anorexia they cannot live their lives in any semblance of their interal imaginings of their lives.
> I just dont think if you are in a relationship with someone that attraction and desire are compatable with pity..
> If you 'pity fuck' someone, then you are not 'truly' attracted to them, you just feel sorry for them. Guilt, on the other hand i think is pretty normal in most relationships, its just that Fa's face a specific kind of guilt. Fa guilt cannot be confused with pity. Though, i dont think its impossible for fat people to transfer 'self pity' onto an Fa, and think that the Fa pities them. which is a real shame. The amount of times you hear fat people asking Fa's "so WHY exactly do you fancy me?" "WHAT is it you are attracted to exactly?" is quite remarkable (even within 'fat circles). "what IS it about FAT you like so much?" ...etc. Maby there are some people who have relationships with/pity fat people but they are not Fa's they are just pricks.



I'm not talking about pity fucks and I agree that's neither here nor there. 

If a fat person is asking why someone is attracted to them, it doesn't always come from a place of self-pity. For me, when I was younger it was more about shock. You get used to being ignored and being invisible -sexually in this case - and you are suspicious when all of a sudden someone is telling you they think you're sexy when everyone else says otherwise. Even if you don't believe everyone else, and you know deep down there's nothing wrong with you and you can't understand why everyone acts like there is, you are still used to a certain kind of behavior, so you ask the questions to make sure what's happening is happening. So for me, those questions were not about pity so much as shock and awe. Is this really happening? Yes, but you need time to get used to it.



Cors said:


> I feel bad thinking about how a fat partner cannot do some things we take for granted, and it makes me sad thinking about the discrimination they face but I wouldn't call that pity.
> 
> Pity is not something on my mind, but it can be triggered by someone who is excessively negative, constantly wallowing in self-pity, dismissing all my efforts at reassurance and even taking out her frustration on me. I consider myself a fairly patient person, but I can't deal with getting drained like that for months especially if there is no visible improvement. By then, my attraction and respect for that person would have died and then yes, I might start pitying them. Not for their size or their inability to do certain things, but for their defeatist attitude. :/



I think what I'm really asking then is if you wouldn't call it pity what would you call it? It is something that can be described? I feel like there is some deeper emotion or combination of emotions at play here but I can't put my finger on it....


----------



## olwen

Dr. P Marshall said:


> One of the reason's I like olwen's questions in particular is that I often as an FFA feel that I start to understand where there can be a disconnect between fat people and FA/FFAs about certain topics. In the case of this one, I think there is a tendency to think of thin or thinner FA/FFAs as thin people first and FAs second. At least that's how I feel when the issue of pity or something like that is brought up. I think people sometimes forget or perhaps never understood in the first place what being an FA feels like. Yes, I can have guilt and doubt, but the truth is when talking about BHM, you're still talking about my physical ideal. So if I meet a man who is physically what I want and he's funny, smart, etc, etc, he's going to have the same impact on me as a brilliant, witty Brad Pitt look alike would have on a heterosexual non-FFA. I think for many of us, all theorizing goes out the window when confronted with actual people. Even here on the boards. Most FAs admit to feeling some sort of FA guilt when they think about things(or they felt it in the past), but i can pretty much guarantee almost no one feels FA guilt when looking at the paysite board.(They may feel guilt for other reasons, if say, they have an SO or something). No one is looking at those women with pity, that's for sure and most likely not with guilt, what they are probably thinking (if they're thinking at all ) is "man is she hot!"
> 
> And for me as a straight FFA, my being an FFA still impacts how I view BBW. In other words, I know a beautiful woman when I see one, so even if I am not sexually attracted to, say a paysite model here, but I see her picture and she's gorgeous, of course I get that the male and lesbian FAs would be absolutely awestruck by her. Or to use a less primal example, there are many women who participate on this board who I know from pictures they've posted in the "recent picture thread" or from their avatar, are really beautiful and then they're funny and smart and I know that from the board, and yeah, I would EXPECT the FA/FFAs who are attracted to women to be into them.
> 
> I think a lot of times fat people who question why an FA/FFA is attracted to them are projecting their own fears, thoughts, insecurities onto the FA whether they realize it or not. It's understandable, especially when talking about thinner FAs and if the fat person has had more negative responses/reactions from other thin people in their lives about their weight. But I think the thing to remember is that a lot of FA/FFAs don't place any meaning or read anything into someone being fat the way some non-FAs who give people a hard time about their weight might. We see fat as something attractive and sexually arousing. We see fat people as a physical ideal so I assume most of us are like me and don't think fat is negative in any way. Now acknowledging that society thinks it is and being understanding or sympathetic to the fact that a fat partner is going to get grief for their weight is a different matter. Worrying about someone's health and comfort is a different matter. That's really more about being concerned for who you care about. And I think a lot of that FA hand wringing is still more generalized. If you're in a relationship with a healthy, active fat partner who is happy with themselves, you're not going to worry about their health any more than you would the health of thin people in your life that you care about, unless the status of their health changes and you know it is weight related. And if that did happen, I'd be more worried that I as an FFA was not being as supportive as I was trying to be for some reason, or the fact I was an FFA was making it difficult for some reason. I would NOT be pitying my partner for being fat. The general and specific can be very different things in this situation. That's my take on it anyway.
> 
> Oh and I was not implying that olwen or anyone in this thread was projecting anything. The point about projecting was in reference to mer's point about people who ask an FA they're dating why the FA finds them attractive.



Great minds think alike.  I have to say yes to this post. That disonnect can count for a lot obviously, and I do think of FAs as thin people first and FAs second. I know that fat is the ideal body intellectually, but how that influences your worldview (is that the right word?) is something that I can't easily tap into. It has to be explained to me. I can see what a house looks like on the outside, but until I'm invited in, I have to imagine what's on the inside. 

...I guess, maybe FAs can end up in a fat bubble too, but it's a different kind of bubble from the one fat people can sometimes end up in...like maybe the FA bubble could be opaque glass or some diaphanous thing and the fat bubble is more like kevlar or steel & the only way in or out is with a diamond cutter.


----------



## Littleghost

Dr. P Marshall said:


> *I think a lot of times fat people who question why an FA/FFA is attracted to them are projecting their own fears, thoughts, insecurities onto the FA whether they realize it or not. It's understandable, especially when talking about thinner FAs and if the fat person has had more negative responses/reactions from other thin people in their lives about their weight. But I think the thing to remember is that a lot of FA/FFAs don't place any meaning or read anything into someone being fat the way some non-FAs who give people a hard time about their weight might. We see fat as something attractive and sexually arousing. We see fat people as a physical ideal so I assume most of us are like me and don't think fat is negative in any way.*



I don't think this can be re-read too many times.


----------



## furious styles

Littleghost said:


> I don't think this can be re-read too many times.



i repped BOTH of you for this.


----------



## Littleghost

olwen said:


> I'm not talking about pity fucks and I agree that's neither here nor there.
> 
> If a fat person is asking why someone is attracted to them, it doesn't always come from a place of self-pity. For me, when I was younger it was more about shock. You get used to being ignored and being invisible -sexually in this case - and you are suspicious when all of a sudden someone is telling you they think you're sexy when everyone else says otherwise. Even if you don't believe everyone else, and you know deep down there's nothing wrong with you and you can't understand why everyone acts like there is, you are still used to a certain kind of behavior, so you ask the questions to make sure what's happening is happening. So for me, those questions were not about pity so much as shock and awe. Is this really happening? Yes, but you need time to get used to it.



Even though I'm not fat, that's definitely a train of thought I've had before and a feeling I can relate to. Whether it's right or wrong (wrong) it's something you've had to deal/put up with for a long time and in order to just keep on, you've kinda stopped fighting it, and then somebody else acknowledges it and you and feels like a brake's been thrown on and suddenly you've got whiplash and are too busy trying to get your bearing to accept it.



> I think what I'm really asking then is if you wouldn't call it pity what would you call it? It is something that can be described? I feel like there is some deeper emotion or combination of emotions at play here but I can't put my finger on it....



I was actually trying to pin that down in a general response, but didn't really get anything that quite satisfies me. The dictionary doesn't really have the negative connotation that people put into the word, but it still seems off. The closest that I can come to is a kind of empathy, I guess a recognizing of the unhappiness/discomfort in the limitations that someone else might not have, but are nevertheless a reminder of your own limitations? I don't know.


----------



## Littleghost

I've been thinking about this subject for awhile, so hopefully most of it will be understandable. When I think about the guilt and worry I've associated over the years with BBWs and being an FA, I haven't been as concerned with my role in a BBW's weight and health. I think this is because while health is important, for me happiness is moreso. Barring some dramatic change, I've always reckoned that there will be fat people, and varying degrees of health, fat or not. So it really hasn't been an issue since I've never made someone fat or encouraged them to get fatter or stressed something that might lead to them changing their health. Even though a partner is there to make the other's life better, it's their body and are responsible for it just as much as I am for mine, no more. My bad habits and care are mine.

But I have had my own "FA Guilt", and when I was much younger it was what kept me from being out. In highschool, I couldn't much take care of myself or stand up for me, much less someone else. And in a way, it's kind of stupid, a bit old-fashioned despite the rest of me and very much a guy way of thinking, but I was terrified that if I did go out with a BBW, that I wouldn't be capable of protecting her. Not just physically, but otherwise; I was and still am awfully shy (but getting better one hopes) and the thought of me taking someone out to have a good time only to have people jeer and taunt her and make her miserable made me miserable. I kept running senarios in my head and everytime I was unable to shield her from all of it killed me. Since just being with her made me happy, the same should've been true to some degree for her and having all that nastiness associated with me and knowing that I felt responsible for failing her ripped me up. It still does somewhat. I spent an awfully long time worrying and panicking about it, probably more than I should have, but to me the idea holds strong that I'm not much use if I can't show her how much she makes me happy by making her happy.

Lately I've realized that I've been focusing on that too much inside and not out, that it's other peoples' fault and it makes me just as angry as it does sad. But that of course leads to new worries about whether or not I can control that anger if I acknowledge it.:doh:


----------



## butch

katherine22 said:


> Great point! People are creators of their own lives. Either we respect the autonomy and right for a person to be fat, no matter how fat, or we don't. It seems to me that this is a boundary issue. If I love someone who is 500 lbs., I am going to assume that the person is intelligent enough to understand the implications of that weight without my choosing to feel guilty which is an emotion that will not contribute to the relationship. We cannot control people . Sometimes people engage in behaviors that we might deem destructive, and there is nothing we can do about it. Ultimately, when we love someone, we love them for what they are and what they are not.
> 
> I am glad that there are fat admirers in the world since it requires independence of thought to go against the prevailing messages of the culture to see the beauty and worthiness of fat people. One of the ideas in this thread is would fat people be better off if they were not loved by fat admirers. So it would be better to be fat and be loved by someone who despises fat who would take the fat person on as a health cause celebre, commenting about every pound gained, every bite of food ingested.
> 
> When I see the women on the paid site, at peril of sounding romantic I think that those women are living a vision of themselves. A question becomes what price are you willing to pay to live an aesthetic vision for yourself and who has the right to tell you not to live it?




That last paragraph, wow, it has a lot of resonance for me. Thanks for writing it, katherine. I've been pondering my version of those questions for some time now, and there are no easy answers.


----------



## mergirl

olwen said:


> If a fat person is asking why someone is attracted to them, it doesn't always come from a place of self-pity. For me, when I was younger it was more about shock. You get used to being ignored and being invisible -sexually in this case - and you are suspicious when all of a sudden someone is telling you they think you're sexy when everyone else says otherwise.
> 
> I think what I'm really asking then is if you wouldn't call it pity what would you call it? It is something that can be described? I feel like there is some deeper emotion or combination of emotions at play here but I can't put my finger on it....



The reason i talked about fat people asking Fa's about the where's and why's of thier attractions, is because i do think many times it does stem from self pity. You can argue, because for you it may well be different that 'being ignored for so long', feeling (you used the word 'being') invisible- sexually, would not affect your self esteme and there is no way any fat person has ever even felt the slightest bit of self pity. Personally, i know enough fat people to reach my own conclusions about this from hearing about thier experiences, especially in thier formative years. This is why i suggested to you when you said that 'Fa's might feel some 'pity' towards fat people, that you were transferring those feelings you felt for yourself because as i said 'pity' and 'attraction' are not really compatable emotions. 
I wonder what the emotion is you are looking for. People are explaining thier feelings of guilt which is a very faceted emotion, so maby its just that there is an aspect of their guilt that you are not understanding/grasping. The thing is, a lot of people dont actually understand a lot of it themselves which is why this thread is so useful to them.


----------



## Carrie

Littleghost said:


> But I have had my own "FA Guilt", and when I was much younger it was what kept me from being out. In highschool, I couldn't much take care of myself or stand up for me, much less someone else. And in a way, it's kind of stupid, a bit old-fashioned despite the rest of me and very much a guy way of thinking, but I was terrified that if I did go out with a BBW, that I wouldn't be capable of protecting her. Not just physically, but otherwise; I was and still am awfully shy (but getting better one hopes) and the thought of me taking someone out to have a good time only to have people jeer and taunt her and make her miserable made me miserable. I kept running senarios in my head and everytime I was unable to shield her from all of it killed me. Since just being with her made me happy, the same should've been true to some degree for her and having all that nastiness associated with me and knowing that I felt responsible for failing her ripped me up. It still does somewhat. I spent an awfully long time worrying and panicking about it, probably more than I should have, but to me the idea holds strong that I'm not much use if I can't show her how much she makes me happy by making her happy.
> 
> Lately I've realized that I've been focusing on that too much inside and not out, that it's other peoples' fault and it makes me just as angry as it does sad. But that of course leads to new worries about whether or not I can control that anger if I acknowledge it.:doh:


Just wanted to say that this was a really thoughtful and sweet post. It's kind of nice to know there are other versions of FA "guilt", this kind in particular. Chivalry may not be dead, after all. :happy:


----------



## olwen

Littleghost said:


> Even though I'm not fat, that's definitely a train of thought I've had before and a feeling I can relate to. Whether it's right or wrong (wrong) it's something you've had to deal/put up with for a long time and in order to just keep on, you've kinda stopped fighting it, and then somebody else acknowledges it and you and feels like a brake's been thrown on and suddenly you've got whiplash and are too busy trying to get your bearing to accept it.
> 
> I was actually trying to pin that down in a general response, but didn't really get anything that quite satisfies me. The dictionary doesn't really have the negative connotation that people put into the word, but it still seems off. The closest that I can come to is a kind of empathy, I guess a recognizing of the unhappiness/discomfort in the limitations that someone else might not have, but are nevertheless a reminder of your own limitations? I don't know.



....I feel you on this...



mergirl said:


> The reason i talked about fat people asking Fa's about the where's and why's of thier attractions, is because i do think many times it does stem from self pity. You can argue, because for you it may well be different that 'being ignored for so long', feeling (you used the word 'being') invisible- sexually, would not affect your self esteme and there is no way any fat person has ever even felt the slightest bit of self pity. Personally, i know enough fat people to reach my own conclusions about this from hearing about thier experiences, especially in thier formative years. This is why i suggested to you when you said that 'Fa's might feel some 'pity' towards fat people, that you were transferring those feelings you felt for yourself because as i said 'pity' and 'attraction' are not really compatable emotions.
> I wonder what the emotion is you are looking for. People are explaining thier feelings of guilt which is a very faceted emotion, so maby its just that there is an aspect of their guilt that you are not understanding/grasping. The thing is, a lot of people dont actually understand a lot of it themselves which is why this thread is so useful to them.



I'm not saying it's impossible for fat people to feel self-pity, only that it isn't always the case all the time. That's all. Why is that so hard to believe? 

I don't know what the emotion is, that's why I'm asking, but it also helps to know it's something the people feeling it don't understand as well. I've never been thin, so how I understand it can only be second hand. I've also never been in a relationship where this came up so I've never had to deal with it. I can only extrapolate from everyone else's experiences. If this is something I'm going to have to deal with in the future, I want to try to understand it as best I can.


----------



## mergirl

I didnt say ALL fat people feel or have felt self pity. I would bet the ones who say that Fa's 'must' feel pity towards them have though. So i dont find it hard to believe because i never said it was always the case, you must have misread me. 
I dont know what you not being thin has to do with not understanding what the emotion is? Dont you mean you have never been an Fa? If this is an emotion that you just have a feeling is there then maby it isnt so important that everyone understands it because perhaps its totally subjective. I find that its better to work with the emotions that you have a frame of reference for first, maby then if other ones come up you can deal with them. 
When you say you will have to deal with this illusive emotion in the future, do you mean because you might date fat people? Or because its something that your future partners might experience? 
Maby you can describe the emotion, where and when you have felt it and we might be able to pin point it for you, though i believe there arn't enough words for all emotions and that they can intermingle, so you might never get a 'word'.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

If a thin woman asks a normal sounding question of (or at least it sounds like a normal curiosity to me) of what her sexual partner finds attractive about her.....is it assumed she has self pity? Or is she simply curious........:blink:


----------



## Captain Save

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> If a thin woman asks a normal sounding question of (or at least it sounds like a normal curiosity to me) of what her sexual partner finds attractive about her.....is it assumed she has self pity? Or is she simply curious........:blink:



I would believe one of two things. She is either unbelievably arrogant, and wants her partner to agree with her belief that she is the greatest thing since sliced bread, or she is apprehensive of his interest in her and looking for evidence to substantiate the notion that he's a weirdo and undesirable. The truth lies somewhere between these two extremes.

For me, this is like jumping into an ice cold swimming pool; what if the things I find attractive about her are the things she hates the most about herself? Speaking from experience, this obviously won't be good for the relationship, and likely will lead to an unpleasant conversation. 

On the positive side, it's an opportunity to share, communicate, and become closer as a couple. Despite the risks involved, this is a normal and healthy question. I think a woman _should_ be asking this question if she has any desire to do and be what her partner wants, especially if her partner hasn't given her any clues; this has to coincide with her desires as well. As they say, 'nothing ventured, nothing gained.'


----------



## olwen

mergirl said:


> I didnt say ALL fat people feel or have felt self pity. I would bet the ones who say that Fa's 'must' feel pity towards them have though. So i dont find it hard to believe because i never said it was always the case, you must have misread me.
> I dont know what you not being thin has to do with not understanding what the emotion is? Dont you mean you have never been an Fa? If this is an emotion that you just have a feeling is there then maby it isnt so important that everyone understands it because perhaps its totally subjective. I find that its better to work with the emotions that you have a frame of reference for first, maby then if other ones come up you can deal with them.
> When you say you will have to deal with this illusive emotion in the future, do you mean because you might date fat people? Or because its something that your future partners might experience?
> Maby you can describe the emotion, where and when you have felt it and we might be able to pin point it for you, though i believe there arn't enough words for all emotions and that they can intermingle, so you might never get a 'word'.



I don't understand how our wires are getting so crossed. Why can't you just take the question at face value? I am not expressing or injecting self pity into the question. I'm not asking about my emotions I'm asking FAs about theirs because I want a full understanding of it. It's that simple. You don't understand why I don't understand and I've said I don't know what it is I don't understand which is why I am asking. But I feel this exchange between us is going nowhere so I'm giving up on it. Forget I asked.


----------



## olwen

Captain Save said:


> Green Eyed Fairy said:
> 
> 
> 
> If a thin woman asks a normal sounding question of (or at least it sounds like a normal curiosity to me) of what her sexual partner finds attractive about her.....is it assumed she has self pity? Or is she simply curious........:blink:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would believe one of two things. She is either unbelievably arrogant, and wants her partner to agree with her belief that she is the greatest thing since sliced bread, or she is apprehensive of his interest in her and looking for evidence to substantiate the notion that he's a weirdo and undesirable. The truth lies somewhere between these two extremes.
> 
> For me, this is like jumping into an ice cold swimming pool; what if the things I find attractive about her are the things she hates the most about herself? Speaking from experience, this obviously won't be good for the relationship, and likely will lead to an unpleasant conversation.
> 
> On the positive side, it's an opportunity to share, communicate, and become closer as a couple. Despite the risks involved, this is a normal and healthy question. I think a woman _should_ be asking this question if she has any desire to do and be what her partner wants, especially if her partner hasn't given her any clues; this has to coincide with her desires as well. As they say, 'nothing ventured, nothing gained.'
Click to expand...


Yes, exactly. 

So here's a different question to the FAs. When your fat partner doesn't feel bad about their bodies, loves it, accepts it (as an affirmation of life and not one of defeat) what happens to the guilt? Is it still there? Do you throw it away? How do you resolve it and how would that affect you going forward into the relationship and/or perhaps starting a new one?


----------



## Captain Save

In my own mind, guilt would then be outnumbered, and would be banished. Sure, I know what adverse effects might arise out of unrepentant gluttony, but it is a _choice _that I would offer a lady; I'm not a feeder. I won't do anything that threatens her pride in her body, even though I have my own desires. 
At the same time, I would accept no responsibility for the choices she made at the table, because she is an adult and must make her own choices. I can hope for what I want, but the most I will do is solemnly swear not to complain if she gains. If she knows where I stand, I think she is better equipped to make informed choices on our long term compatibility, and vice versa. 
The hard part is facing the possibility that, after marriage, she might decide to become everything I indicated was undesirable. It's her body, and her choice. Would I stay with her, or would I leave? If I stay, would I just make us both miserable? If I leave, what does that say about my ability to make a commitment?
:huh:


----------



## Observer

That these types of discussons are even raised is puzzling to those of us who have been happily married for decades. Questions can be raised on all sorts of things based on natural curiousity - there may or may not be additional hidden mesages, depending on context. But in most cases they are transitory inquiries, not issues transcending the love and reasons for entering into and remining in the relationship. They should therefore be answered with tact and diplomacy, but not with more gravity than the questioner expects.


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## mergirl

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> If a thin woman asks a normal sounding question of (or at least it sounds like a normal curiosity to me) of what her sexual partner finds attractive about her.....is it assumed she has self pity? Or is she simply curious........:blink:


She could be curious. If someone is asking what you like about them, yeah totally. Though i would imagine if a fat person thinks that an Fa feels 'pity' for them they are really not understanding the Fa and this feeling is one of transference. 
The other questions though dont have to be about self pity, they can be about, curiosity or as Olwen sugested 'surprise' but if they are constant i would imagine they are about insecutity.


----------



## mergirl

olwen said:


> I don't understand how our wires are getting so crossed. Why can't you just take the question at face value? I am not expressing or injecting self pity into the question. I'm not asking about my emotions I'm asking FAs about theirs because I want a full understanding of it. It's that simple. You don't understand why I don't understand and I've said I don't know what it is I don't understand which is why I am asking. But I feel this exchange between us is going nowhere so I'm giving up on it. Forget I asked.



There are no crossed wires from my side. I take objection to the fact that this is a discussion about Fa guilt and because you don't understand it you state there must be more to it than that, that Fa's must 'pity' fat people. I think this is rediculous, as i stated and insulting. This is 'My' wire anyway. Yours is trying to understand Fa's. Good luck, we are only just trying to work out ourselves, which is issue enough without trying to dodge bullets. I think this is why it began as 'strictly Fa topics discussed amongst Fa's' forum. Maby i'm wrong here though but i have seen a few times Fa's being shot down now for expressing oppinions or trying to explain or talk about their sexuality. Everything from 'psychoanalysis' when people talk about preferences, which they then have to defend to accusations that they 'pity' fat people both of which the Fa's then have to defend themselves from, negating from the topic of self exploration which i thought was the point of this forum in the first place.? 
I kind of thought it would be nice that there would be a forum where Fa's wouldn't have to defend their preferences or have to explain themselves to Non Fa's. I think so far this hasn't been the 'boys club' that people were invisaging but instead somewhere, finally Fa's could talk openly without attack, probing etc.. If it is not then what is the point of it?


----------



## olwen

Mer, It wasn't my intention to attack anybody. I asked a question from a place of genuine curiosity. I'm sorry if it upsets you. A number of people have stated it has nothing to do with pity and I accepted that and asked another question for more clarification. If that threatens you somehow then again, I'm sorry for that. I can appreciate that this is difficult to suss out. If you feel my questions are counterproductive then that's okay. I'll stop asking them. 



Sheesh.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Captain Save said:


> I would believe one of two things. She is either unbelievably arrogant, and wants her partner to agree with her belief that she is the greatest thing since sliced bread, or she is apprehensive of his interest in her and looking for evidence to substantiate the notion that he's a weirdo and undesirable. The truth lies somewhere between these two extremes.
> 
> For me, this is like jumping into an ice cold swimming pool; what if the things I find attractive about her are the things she hates the most about herself? Speaking from experience, this obviously won't be good for the relationship, and likely will lead to an unpleasant conversation.
> 
> On the positive side, it's an opportunity to share, communicate, and become closer as a couple. Despite the risks involved, this is a normal and healthy question. I think a woman _should_ be asking this question if she has any desire to do and be what her partner wants, especially if her partner hasn't given her any clues; this has to coincide with her desires as well. As they say, 'nothing ventured, nothing gained.'



Wow....I'm a little stunned. It seems like intense over-analyzation of a normal curiosity to me. You haven't ever wanted to know what a woman you desire...desires about you? There is something wrong with you or anyone else for wondering??? :blink:
Why would sharing your mind and outlook be such a slippery slope? 
I like that you say there is a middle ground.....I don't even think it's necessary to find one though. 
It's just a question.....and it doesn't have to be loaded or have some intense meaning other than simple curiosity. 
I hate to think that men have analyzed me as having something wrong with me for asking that question....hell, men have asked me the same. It seems like a normal conversation to me......not the beginning of or an indication of something so horrible......




mergirl said:


> She could be curious. If someone is asking what you like about them, yeah totally. Though i would imagine if a fat person thinks that an Fa feels 'pity' for them they are really not understanding the Fa and this feeling is one of transference.
> The other questions though dont have to be about self pity, they can be about, curiosity or as Olwen sugested 'surprise' but if they are constant i would imagine they are about insecutity.



Sometimes.....a question is just a question. Perhaps if they keep asking this same question over and over.....THEN it might become a bigger issue and have a deeper meaning.......

***************************************************

If you approach someone as if you expect something to be wrong with them....you will always find something wrong with them...whether there is or not.....


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## James

This is an FA-centric space where FAs are entitled to discuss their issues with each other without being subjected to external imposition or questioning. 

That's not to say that questions from non-FAs are invalid by default, or that the questions are not interesting or intriguing... simply that the main board is the location to post if a non-FA wants to find an answer to any lines of questioning whose emphasis is not 'FA issue-specific'.

This is a protected forum in the sense that intra-FA discussion is facilitated, for the purpose of mutual learning, fostering FA community for the mutual benefit of FAs. This is quite seperate from the function of the main board (and other areas of the site) where more heterogeneous interaction takes place.


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## mergirl

olwen said:


> Mer, It wasn't my intention to attack anybody. I asked a question from a place of genuine curiosity. I'm sorry if it upsets you. A number of people have stated it has nothing to do with pity and I accepted that and asked another question for more clarification. If that threatens you somehow then again, I'm sorry for that. I can appreciate that this is difficult to suss out. If you feel my questions are counterproductive then that's okay. I'll stop asking them.
> 
> 
> 
> Sheesh.


Its ok Olwen, i dont feel threatened in any way. If another Fa had brought up that they felt these feelings then they could be explored, i just dont see the point of perpetuating myths. If it is a free for all then so be it, while we are at it we could make the ssbbw room public and be allowed to ask anything we wanted to satiate our curiosity. (That last bit was a comparison not a request btw)


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## Captain Save

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Wow....I'm a little stunned. It seems like intense over-analyzation of a normal curiosity to me. You haven't ever wanted to know what a woman you desire...desires about you? There is something wrong with you or anyone else for wondering??? :blink:
> Why would sharing your mind and outlook be such a slippery slope?



I'm sorry; I didn't mean to cause alarm. My son tells me I think too much; your response indicates he might be right! :doh:

I've experienced both extremes as far as the attitude is concerned; that's where that comes from. I also remember a past relationship where the question was asked, and when I told her it was her shapely legs her response was not positive. They were smooth, free of cellulite, and very well porportioned, but because they were rather large she was disappointed; as a result the relationship unravelled. I still haven't found a woman like her; she was the one that got away. 

I'd like to think I'm a little wiser with age. I wouldn't change my actions in that situation, and if a woman asks, I'll tell her anything she wants to know; it's a normal and healthy curiosity, and it should be explored on both sides. It's _not_ a horrible thing, and there is nothing wrong or sinister in asking the question.


----------



## Carrie

Captain Save said:


> I've experienced both extremes as far as the attitude is concerned; that's where that comes from.


Always remember... between two extremes is not a vacuum. There's a whole lotta stuff in there to consider.


----------



## olwen

mergirl said:


> Its ok Olwen, i dont feel threatened in any way. If another Fa had brought up that they felt these feelings then they could be explored, i just dont see the point of perpetuating myths. If it is a free for all then so be it, while we are at it we could make the ssbbw room public and be allowed to ask anything we wanted to satiate our curiosity. (That last bit was a comparison not a request btw)



No one said anything about perpetuating myths, but whatever. We've had different relationship experiences. So we'll just leave it at that.


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## Mini

Can I just say how disappointed I am that a thread I started hasn't resulted in any animosity, threats of violence, or childish name-calling? Seriously, fuck you guys.


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## imfree

Mini said:


> Can I just say how disappointed I am that a thread I started hasn't resulted in any animosity, threats of violence, or childish name-calling? Seriously, fuck you guys.



Hyde Park is gone, but the Forum Rumble Thread
is pretty dead, too. See if you can raise a little
hell in there to get it going good again.


----------



## Eclectic_Girl

Mini said:


> Can I just say how disappointed I am that a thread I started hasn't resulted in any animosity, threats of violence, or childish name-calling? Seriously, fuck you guys.



Oh, just deal with the fact that you started a productive conversation, you ginormous douche, or I'll rabbit-punch you in the 'nads.



Better? :batting:


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## Captain Save

Carrie said:


> Always remember... between two extremes is not a vacuum. There's a whole lotta stuff in there to consider.



Not only is she pretty and charming, she's very wise as well. Thanks!


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## Les Toil

Mini said:


> And yet I'm attracted to it, and I can't help it, and I'll be damned if it doesn't bug the shit out of me sometimes.



Hiya Mini. Great topic here, even though I think I may not completely understand _what_ the topic is.

Does guilt come into question because the people we admire are at what society deems an unhealthy size? If that's the case then I amiably say we should pursue that person which we find both attractive and personable completely guilt free and with a song in our hearts. 

But I can completely see how guilt _would_ come into play if you found out your partner wanted to lose a considerable amount of weight but decided not to because he/she knew how terribly attracted to their size you are. Ultimately it's their adult-like decision, but decisions are based upon weighing the pros and cons. The cons would be losing the weight and believing your mate will disappear with the weight. In that sense, I can COMPLETELY see how guilt would be a key factor in the FA's feelings. Of course that would be a moot point if we reminded our plus-size mates that we hold their health and well-being above all else.

Of course if you're a feeder/gainer FA who not only cheers on the added new girth of his/her own plus-size mate but also the weight of complete strangers, I'm assuming guilt must enter the equation quite often--or maybe never at all!!


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## superodalisque

i think the guilt thing should be dropped. it doesn't help an BBW or a BHM, it sure doesn't help an FA or FFA. so if it doesn't add to your life it shouldn't have a place in your life.

just one fat girl's opinion


----------



## Haunted

superodalisque said:


> i think the guilt thing should be dropped. it doesn't help an BBW or a BHM, it sure doesn't help an FA or FFA. so if it doesn't add to your life it shouldn't have a place in your life.
> 
> just one fat girl's opinion




I agree,, I do feel the guilt and have talked about it with my girl and here on the boards. It's not helping either side and it very often sends the wrong message to the "object of desire" so to speak in the end I try not to let the guilt have much bearing. It's silly to feel guilty about something that feels so right. These woman and men that we adore are and where BBW's and BHM's before we came along and they will continue to be BBW'S/BHM'S long after they throw us out for being dumb guilty lovers. 

I love my Big Fat Girlfriend and she loves me. That is all !


----------



## Mini

Les Toil said:


> Hiya Mini. Great topic here, even though I think I may not completely understand _what_ the topic is.
> 
> Does guilt come into question because the people we admire are at what society deems an unhealthy size? If that's the case then I amiably say we should pursue that person which we find both attractive and personable completely guilt free and with a song in our hearts.
> 
> But I can completely see how guilt _would_ come into play if you found out your partner wanted to lose a considerable amount of weight but decided not to because he/she knew how terribly attracted to their size you are. Ultimately it's their adult-like decision, but decisions are based upon weighing the pros and cons. The cons would be losing the weight and believing your mate will disappear with the weight. In that sense, I can COMPLETELY see how guilt would be a key factor in the FA's feelings. Of course that would be a moot point if we reminded our plus-size mates that we hold their health and well-being above all else.
> 
> Of course if you're a feeder/gainer FA who not only cheers on the added new girth of his/her own plus-size mate but also the weight of complete strangers, I'm assuming guilt must enter the equation quite often--or maybe never at all!!



Hi Les,

I'll admit that since starting this topic I've gained a new perspective on the "guilt" issue, at least so far as the loving-that-which-kills part goes (if you'll forgive the hyperbole. ) It's been great seeing all the responses. 

However, another aspect that still bugs me is the guilt over not being totally attracted to otherwise awesome people. Specifically, there's a girl that I am incredibly close to and comfortable with, but she doesn't totally do it for me because she's on the thin side. *That* makes me feel like an asshole. A shallow asshole. Blah.


----------



## Les Toil

Mini said:


> Hi Les,
> Specifically, there's a girl that I am incredibly close to and comfortable with, but she doesn't totally do it for me because she's on the thin side. *That* makes me feel like an asshole. A shallow asshole. Blah.



Would you feel shallow if you befriended an 80-year-old single woman that you had the WORLD in common with but wasn't turned on by her because you are more attracted to younger women? If you believe you would feel guilty over such a thing I might venture to say you might be dealing with personal inner issues that go far, far beyond the stratosphere of FA/BBW love.

In the meantime, just know that every single human on the planet has physical preferences.


----------



## Mini

Les Toil said:


> Would you feel shallow if you befriended an 80-year-old single woman that you had the WORLD in common with but wasn't turned on by her because you are more attracted to younger women? If you believe you would feel guilty over such a thing I might venture to say you might be dealing with personal inner issues that go far, far beyond the stratosphere of FA/BBW love.
> 
> In the meantime, just know that every single human on the planet has physical preferences.



When you put it like that, yeah, I can see your point.

My dad always told me I should be a Catholic for all the guilt I deal with. >_>


----------



## Les Toil

Mini said:


> When you put it like that, yeah, I can see your point.
> 
> My dad always told me I should be a Catholic for all the guilt I deal with. >_>



Well, it's also a sign of a kind and considerate human being. Be proud of yourself for being in that category. And don't feel guilty about THAT either!


----------



## AnnMarie

Mini said:


> Hi Les,
> 
> I'll admit that since starting this topic I've gained a new perspective on the "guilt" issue, at least so far as the loving-that-which-kills part goes (if you'll forgive the hyperbole. ) It's been great seeing all the responses.
> 
> However, another aspect that still bugs me is the guilt over not being totally attracted to otherwise awesome people. Specifically, there's a girl that I am incredibly close to and comfortable with, but she doesn't totally do it for me because she's on the thin side. *That* makes me feel like an asshole. A shallow asshole. Blah.



Michael, Les's example was a good one. We all have our own preferences for a partner. Sometimes you're surprised at who you're attracted to, and sometimes it just follows that "that" thing doesn't work for you - and it's OK... it's OK to know that about yourself and know that that person is a better friend than lover. Part of knowing who you are and what you are in this world is knowing that being true to you isn't a slight to another. In fact, in the long run you're doing others a favor by not trying to make something work when you know damn well it's fundamentally not a good fit - for WHATEVER reason. If she were a fat heroin addict, would you feel guilty that you can't get past the heroin thing?

You're ok, you like what you like - it's ok. I doubt many guys who date thin girls spend as much time feeling guilty for all the fatties they wouldn't date because they don't find them physically appealing. 

Let yourself off the hook.


----------



## MatthewB

You know, this has been bothering me for a bit, as well; dealing with the fact that, yes, I am attracted to fat women, but also that, if I encourage them to get even larger, there's the chance of increased mortality. 

That's my desire, but I've been troubled over it.


----------



## exile in thighville

kioewen said:


> And yet I'll bet that kind of thinking is quite common, at least on the subconscious level -- hence the so-called "closet" phenomenon.



there's a difference between being in the closet and rationalizing it. most closeted fas are that way out of fear; they believe they will be persecuted. i'd venture that very few share the parallel with say, the church's stance on homosexuality, that their attraction is morally wrong.


----------



## CaptianNegro

This may be an out of place question but I was curious on everyone elses thoughts on the matter. For example: If FA's who fall into a relationship with a thinner person and without hesitation makes their preferences known and their partner to an extent(presumably so) caters to said preferences. Be it weight gain/this that or the other. Is this in it self a source of guilt? 

To refine my statement with a more direct personal question. I am currently dating someone who I would consider thin but by all other means is a person I do very much enjoy and we have what I would consider a great relationship. However therein lies the guilt, I feel an utmost connection with her but I am concerned whether or not my preferences as a FA could diminish our intimacy. She has gained for me and makes considerable efforts to do so but I cant help but feel guilt. As has been said in previous post, there are just days where she thinks about being thinner again and those are the toughest. I love her and I love being with her but a part of my feels guilt and worries if she did lose the weight if I would still be happy and be able to satisfy her needs. 

I wish there were simpler more refined terms i could use. Perhaps these are more personal questions resigned for myself but I was curious to see what input or experiences other FAs may have.


----------



## bbwsrule

olwen said:


> Yes, exactly.
> 
> So here's a different question to the FAs. When your fat partner doesn't feel bad about their bodies, loves it, accepts it (as an affirmation of life and not one of defeat) what happens to the guilt? Is it still there? Do you throw it away? How do you resolve it and how would that affect you going forward into the relationship and/or perhaps starting a new one?



Interesting question, Olwen. At heart is whether one feels that one's sexual desires (that don't involve violence, etc), that are hard-wired (according to posts I've read and in my own case), are something to feel guilt about. To me, NO! Whether my partner likes being heavy or not, these are my own private preferences. Presumably if we are in a realtionship I should be encouraged to level about many things including this. Obviously if pard can't handle my preference for them, as they are, then that doesn't make for a great relationship.

Guilt might come in if I'm actively working to motivate my partner to act self-destructively, which could be lots of things besides weight. I don't do this so I don't feel I have anything to feel guilty about. The main difference, if my partner enjoys being fat & my reaction to it, is that it gives us something to enjoy on an intense level (intense because sexual energy is involved).

So. FA's: embrace your preference! There is nothing inherent in preferring fat partners that should make you feel guilty.


----------



## pickleman357

Guilt?

Maybe sometimes. But then I realize how much I respect my g/f for being who she is, which is a big beautiful women despite what society says.

She's basically out there, fighting a mental war against discrimination. 
Trying to find a public bathroom she comfortable fits in is hard
Trying to find clothes that fit right is hard
Having to be subjected to ad after ad after article about fat-hate
etc...

I'm amazed that she can still come home after all that and be beautiful and confident in her curves.

Any guilty feelings I have is quickly crushed by my overwhelming respect for her. :wubu::wubu::wubu:


----------



## joswitch

Mini said:


> You knew it was coming, and it might as well be started by the dude who says unpopular shit anyway.
> 
> So, yeah. I think we all know what I mean. How do you deal with it? Do you even feel it?
> 
> Me, personally, it's oftentimes the kind of cognitive dissonance that I frown upon in *every* other aspect of my life. I *know* that the "epidemic" is a lot of hype, and I *know* that being overweight - a bullshit term in and of itself - isn't the death sentence it's made out to be, but I also know that there are relatively few super-sized persons in the old folks home, and that there are health risks associated with being, well, quite large.
> 
> And yet I'm attracted to it, and I can't help it, and I'll be damned if it doesn't bug the shit out of me sometimes.



Gah. I have so much to post in response here...

I'm going to hold fire on the emotional side and start off with some of the science, beacuse it seems to me that a good part of FA guilt hinges on an assumption, specifically "that weight loss is healthy and will improve your chances of living longer" in fact there's a considerable body of research, if not the balance of research that indicates the opposite...

Hi! I have a PhD in biochemistry... B)

I've been doing a lot of digging over the last few months... I'm putting together a series of articles that are aimed to blow the lid on the whole fat=unhealthy myth... why is it taking me a while? because I'm actually digging deep enough as to read the original papers referenced in articles where I can and to cross check them with other research from other independent institutions (i.e. peer revue - an esssential part of science)

here's the germ of the first article I'm putting together.... (I posted this over in FF a couple weeks back, but was hanging fire while I built up the rest of the articles before bringing it over to Dims, but hell, let's get started...) :


*Stop feeling guilty for loving fat folks! The balance of *reputable* research shows dieting/weightloss is BAD for health!*

Two independent studies, in two different countries, both by reputable institutions and covering thousands of subjects suggest that dieting causes physiological damage that in the long term can outweigh the benefits! 
'"Healthy overweight or obese subjects who try to lose weight and succeed in doing so over a six-year period suffer from almost double the risk of dying during the next 18 years compared with subjects who do not try to lose weight and whose weight remains stable," said Dr Sorensen.'

The studies were carried out by:
1- Institute of Preventive Medicine at Copenhagen University Hospital, Denmark and followed 2,957 overweight or obese people in Finland who had been screened to ensure they had no underlying illnesses.

2- US National Centre for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion in Atlanta.
which followed 6,391 overweight or obese people for nine years and found that those who had no intention of losing weight and even gained weight were least at risk of dying young.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2005/jun/27/sciencenews.research


Here's another good article backing that up
"Over the past 20 years, more than two dozen studies have found that weight losses of 20 to 30 pounds (between nine and 13 kilos) - the amount most dieters say they want to lose - lead to an increased risk of premature mortality. During the same period, only four studies have found that losing weight increases life expectancy."

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/2997/
with sources listed at the bottom


so if all that media guff about diet, diet, diet is wrong - what's the route to living healthy for big folks?

One very promising approach is called Health At Every Size
there's a book of the same name by Linda Bacon Phd of University of California, Davis (no her name's not a joke! lol!) 
The book is based on solid scientific study:
Bacon, L, VanLoan M , Stern JS, Keim N. Size Acceptance and Intuitive Eating Improves Health for Obese Female Chronic Dieters. Journal of American Dietetic Association. 2005;105:929-936.
demonstrating measurable health improvements in women who did NOT lose weight (but increased activity, raised esteem) contrasted with dieters!

http://www.lindabacon.org/HAESbook/
http://www.lindabacon.org/resources.html
http://nutrition.ucdavis.edu/faculty/bacon.html 

Basically if you're active, practice "intuitive eating" and are as happy as you can manage (i.e. blow off all the negative anti-fat stigma that comes your way and build strong self-esteem) then that'll help keep you about as healthy as you can be! 

So no need to feel guilty for being FA anymore! (if you ever did) And no need if you're a big person to put up with anymore rubbish about "but it's your health I'm worried for.." Hit them! Hit them with the BIG STICK OF SCIENCE! B)  

Here's the stub of my next article

*"Over"weight people live longest of all BMI categories i.e. the BMI categories are incorrectly assigned! * The "overweight" category of people experinced negative excess mortality - in laymans terms on average they lived even longer than the "normal" category. Whilst *"under"weight and "obese" *categories of people "experienced excess mortality" compared with the "normal" category - *the differences in relative risk were modest.*

This came from a review by Flegal et al in 2005 of the stats from huge USA-wide NHANES I - III using the BMI categories established in '98 which are still (unfortunately) in wide use today...
http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/293/15/1861

this was backed up by a more recent study in Japan, although the data from this one goes further still - suggesting that *being underweight was worse for your longeivity than being obese*

http://www.enotalone.com/article/19692.html

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/wel...rweight-people-live-longer-20090618-cm13.html

_"Researchers studied the health of about 50,000 people aged 40 or older over a 12-year period. They looked at the past physiques of the participants and how long they lived past the age of 40, and grouped them according to their body mass index (BMI), an indicator of how fat a person is.
After a thorough analysis, the experts were able to find that male participants with regular weight (with BMI within a normal range between 18.5 and 25) at the age of 40 years, lived for an additional average of 39.94 years, while those individuals who were considered overweight (BMI of between 25 and 30) at the age of 40 lived 41.64 years more. Women, whose weight was considered as normal, were found to live on average for a further 47.97 years, when compared with chubby women-who lived another 48.05 years, according to the study.

Furthermore, the study showed that men and women with obesity (BMI of 30 or more), lived an additional 39.41 and 46.02 years, respectively. But skinny men (BMI of less than 18.5) were on average found to live 34.54 more years, and thin women another 41.79 years."_
*What I want to draw your attention to here is how close the figures for normal/overweight and obese are! In fact only the "skinny" diverge by greater than 2 years!*

There's much, much more to it than that, but I'll post that up as and when it's organised and coherent and I've had chance to read and critique the references... (It's like my bloody thesis all over again! aaaargh!)

But I have to say that on balance what I've read so far on a whole lot of other issues besides just mortality leads me to lean towards the following:

1- the terms "overweight" and "obesity" are spurious "medicalisations" of body types/sizes better described as chubby and fat respectively... (of course it doesn't sound so scary then)

1a - if medics are going to use BMI the categories need redefining... certainly "overweight" should be included in the normal range (big pharma would not be happy with that!)

2- that the vast majority of diseases linked by medics/pharma/media with obesity are, when we contrast with societies where obesity is esteemed, actually linked with stress derived from social stigma
(so let's fight social stigma!)

3- one exception to the above would be diabetes II but in that instance it seems that there is an association rather than a causal link established... (chicken and egg... if you are wet, is it because you fell in the water or did you fall in the water cos you are wet?)

4- while fat, middling and thin people sadly all get ill and will all die one day; the illnesses they suffer and what they die of may vary and there may be some association with body type, for instance fat people might be more likely to have heart attacks but they are also more likely to recover from them and from bypass surgery than thin people (who are more likely to die from their first attack)... while fat people may be more likely to get some cancers, they are less likely to get other cancers and tend to have a higher survival rate going through the rigours of chemo c.f. thin people... (people are different one from another! it's biology!)

5- the odds of you finding fair, balanced and informed reporting of the actual science in the mainstream media are vanishingly small - on the whole what you get spoonfed are the recommendations of lobbyist pressure groups regurgitated through politicians....

6 - the whole fat-is-bad mythos is so hard (even for FAs) to uproot from their psyche for exactly the same reasons that in the Dark Ages people thought the world was flat! Humans are programmed to look for the easy answer that presents itself most immediately to their eyes/perceptive filters! 
i.e. i) fat person dies - doctor/witness "Must be his fat! case closed!" thin person dies "OMG! what can have happened! Quick autopsy him!" 
i.e. ii) You don't get reliable data if you already have your conclusion! It skews your methods! :doh:

Ok it's late here, I hope you'll take some time to have a read of the references there and y'know inwardly digest... 

I'll weigh in my 2c on the emotional aspects of FA at a later date...
Take care folks and be gentle with yourselves! :bow:


----------



## mergirl

See, the thing is, i don't need scientific evidence to see how unhappy my gf can feel because of her weight. Especially in the summer, she can feel hellish and get sore etc. There are a lot of physical things that she feels because of her weight or that her weight exacerbates and psychologically she can struggle too. I could be reading a report which said Fat people are the happiest and healthiest of all the people but its not my gf's reality. She want's to be thinner, not only because of sociatal reasons but because her back hurts, she feels too hot, she has sore inner thighs, she finds it hard to find clothes to wear that fit that she likes, she feels like the odd one out in a lot of situations, she feels that people are staring at her (especially abroad), she is not comfortable in many seats..etc etc etc... I don't feel guilty about these things..i feel sadness. The guilt begins when i realise when she talks about losing weight and i don't think right away-This is possibly going to make her feel better for a whole host of reasons or i could help her lose a bit of weight.. part of me sort of hopes that she wont lose weight because this is a big part of my 'physical' attraction to her. This is my guilt. Perhaps its personal,depending on the Fa. I think to an extent there is a disonance somehow which i just cannot console myself with. For example, if someone is uncomfortable trying to fit into a chair part of me IS thinking "How horrible for the person" but the other part is saying "This exentuates the weight and fat which turns me on" and this is the part of me that 'wins'. To have a sexual preference for something that the majority of somebodies hate can be quite difficult, especially if that somebody is the one you love. 
In saying that, my Fa side is a part of me, one which i just can't change. I used to think it would be much more easy if i was straight eg. Less traumatic teenage years, more social acceptance..och you get the point and i suppose to an extent i wish i wasn't an Fa because then i wouldn't have the underlying Guilt that comes with it. I can't change these parts of me, they make up part of who i am and so i might as well try to accept myself and try to understand that some sort of difficulty is the price to pay for being myself.


----------



## jonah-uk

mergirl said:


> part of me sort of hopes that she wont lose weight because this is a big part of my 'physical' attraction to her. This is my guilt.



this is the only guilt i feel i think... otherwise it's the opposite in a way - a sort of satisfaction knowing that i've helped a few women realise that there are men who genuinely find them desirable as they are. does that make sense?


----------



## Make_Lunch_Not_War

I've been an FA ever since I was six years old (!) and discovered that I liked looking at the chubby girls. Not long after that I also realize that I feel guilty about liking something in people that virtually everyone else hated or at best tolerated.

As an adult, however, I began to realize that any love partner of mine was going to be fat (or more likely, VERY fat) whether I was their partner or not so I asked myself the following question;

"Is my fat love partner better off with me or without me?"

If they were better off with me, I would simply enjoy them as they were and from then on would do my best to block out any guilty feelings.

If they were better off without me, that I would end a relationship right then and there, even if we were only on a first date.

But hey, that's just me!


----------



## joswitch

mergirl said:


> See, the thing is, i don't need scientific evidence to see how unhappy my gf can feel because of her weight.


Sure. Yeah, I just thought I'd lay the science on this thread cos I get the impression from reading many posts that it IS a factor for some if not many F/FAs in the guilting...



> Especially in the summer, she can feel hellish and get sore etc. There are a lot of physical things that she feels because of her weight or that her weight exacerbates and psychologically she can struggle too. I could be reading a report which said Fat people are the happiest and healthiest of all the people but its not my gf's reality.


Absolutely - happiness = entirely subjective..



> She want's to be thinner, not only because of sociatal reasons but because her back hurts, she feels too hot, she has sore inner thighs, she finds it hard to find clothes to wear that fit that she likes,



Okay, I apologise if any of this comes across as Mr Fixit Superhero or Coach or patronising or anything like that... gah... I'm on a manic "save the world" jag here and I understand that might come over obnoxious, sorry if it does! Really just trying to help in my usual sucky way!:doh:

In general I reckon that one of the most cool and loving things that an F/FA/anyone can do for their lover is to listen to their issues both big specific and otherwise and suggest/offer help in little ways that show understanding and thought...
specifically for the "chub-rub" (term borrowed from angrygreyrainbows in the Fatosphere, do you read her? I think you'd like! attitude-wise) other BBWs recommended variously:

Boudreaux's Butt Paste,
Body Glide,
diaper rash creme,
Lanacane Anti-chafing gel,
cycling shorts (probbaly way too hot in summer)
in this thread over here:

http://fantasyfeeder.com/cms/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=26&thread_id=8006&pid=55623#post_55623

Yeah really FF isn't entirely fantasyland! 

Having suffered some back (pulled muscle in lumbar region) back pain myself - and also from this ace thread by Carrie from over here: 

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59916

swimming / aqua is great for big folks to build muscular strength in the body core that supports the back and reduces pain... maybe scout ahead and find your lady a fat positive place??

I'm totally sure I don't need to flag up clothes resources for ya ... even I'm not that much of a klutz!



> she feels like the odd one out in a lot of situations, she feels that people are staring at her (especially abroad),



that's a tough one, it's hard to instill a F*** 'em all attitude in someone else... I don't give a s*** about society but yeah, ex's have!

and I understand that my preferred strategy in that situation which is a big ol' Public Display of Affection (double strike - boosts my lover and says to gawpers "ug! my woman! back off!") might bring you more rather than less attention given prevalent homophobia / random horny lechers...
But yeah, when my ex gf got s*** in public and I showed support/love for her/ defiance of that hostility... gf said she appreciated....

Even a whispered "you're beautiful"??



> she is not comfortable in many seats..etc etc etc...


again the F/FA "advance scout" can be a help here..



> I don't feel guilty about these things..i feel sadness. The guilt begins when i realise when she talks about losing weight and i don't think right away-This is possibly going to make her feel better for a whole host of reasons or i could help her lose a bit of weight.. part of me sort of hopes that she wont lose weight because this is a big part of my 'physical' attraction to her. This is my guilt. Perhaps its personal,depending on the Fa. I think to an extent there is a disonance somehow which i just cannot console myself with. For example, if someone is uncomfortable trying to fit into a chair part of me IS thinking "How horrible for the person" but the other part is saying "This exentuates the weight and fat which turns me on" and this is the part of me that 'wins'. To have a sexual preference for something that the majority of somebodies hate can be quite difficult, especially if that somebody is the one you love.
> In saying that, my Fa side is a part of me, one which i just can't change. I used to think it would be much more easy if i was straight eg. Less traumatic teenage years, more social acceptance..och you get the point and i suppose to an extent i wish i wasn't an Fa because then i wouldn't have the underlying Guilt that comes with it. I can't change these parts of me, they make up part of who i am and so i might as well try to accept myself and try to understand that some sort of difficulty is the price to pay for being myself.



Totally agreeing with pretty much everything you said there, especially accepting yourself, and *bighugs4u*

Oh and this last point - on the whole don't you think your gf, (with all the struggles she has being big) isn't happier being with someone who loves and desires and accepts ALL of her? Rather than if you weren't FFA? Surely it'd be worse to struggle on alone, and unloved or be begrudgingly "accepted" "despite" her weight?

Ok is too late here, to be putting together my feelings on this issue... laterz peeps..


----------



## mergirl

jonah-uk said:


> this is the only guilt i feel i think... otherwise it's the opposite in a way - a sort of satisfaction knowing that i've helped a few women realise that there are men who genuinely find them desirable as they are. does that make sense?


Yes, that does make sense.  
I think though that it is the acceptance and support and love from other bbws that really makes the difference. Which is why i am so glad that a bbw board is on its way. I'm glad you made people happy though. 
A good Fuck is a long way away from a good sense of self.. but i agree it might help on the path ahead!


----------



## mergirl

joswitch said:


> Sure. Yeah, I just thought I'd lay the science on this thread cos I get the impression from reading many posts that it IS a factor for some if not many F/FAs in the guilting...
> 
> 
> Absolutely - happiness = entirely subjective..
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, I apologise if any of this comes across as Mr Fixit Superhero or Coach or patronising or anything like that... gah... I'm on a manic "save the world" jag here and I understand that might come over obnoxious, sorry if it does! Really just trying to help in my usual sucky way!:doh:
> 
> In general I reckon that one of the most cool and loving things that an F/FA/anyone can do for their lover is to listen to their issues both big specific and otherwise and suggest/offer help in little ways that show understanding and thought...
> specifically for the "chub-rub" (term borrowed from angrygreyrainbows in the Fatosphere, do you read her? I think you'd like! attitude-wise) other BBWs recommended variously:
> 
> Boudreaux's Butt Paste,
> Body Glide,
> diaper rash creme,
> Lanacane Anti-chafing gel,
> cycling shorts (probbaly way too hot in summer)
> in this thread over here:
> 
> http://fantasyfeeder.com/cms/forum/viewthread.php?forum_id=26&thread_id=8006&pid=55623#post_55623
> 
> Yeah really FF isn't entirely fantasyland!
> 
> Having suffered some back (pulled muscle in lumbar region) back pain myself - and also from this ace thread by Carrie from over here:
> 
> http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59916
> 
> swimming / aqua is great for big folks to build muscular strength in the body core that supports the back and reduces pain... maybe scout ahead and find your lady a fat positive place??
> 
> I'm totally sure I don't need to flag up clothes resources for ya ... even I'm not that much of a klutz!
> 
> 
> 
> that's a tough one, it's hard to instill a F*** 'em all attitude in someone else... I don't give a s*** about society but yeah, ex's have!
> 
> and I understand that my preferred strategy in that situation which is a big ol' Public Display of Affection (double strike - boosts my lover and says to gawpers "ug! my woman! back off!") might bring you more rather than less attention given prevalent homophobia / random horny lechers...
> But yeah, when my ex gf got s*** in public and I showed support/love for her/ defiance of that hostility... gf said she appreciated....
> 
> Even a whispered "you're beautiful"??
> 
> 
> again the F/FA "advance scout" can be a help here..
> 
> 
> 
> Totally agreeing with pretty much everything you said there, especially accepting yourself, and *bighugs4u*
> 
> Oh and this last point - on the whole don't you think your gf, (with all the struggles she has being big) isn't happier being with someone who loves and desires and accepts ALL of her? Rather than if you weren't FFA? Surely it'd be worse to struggle on alone, and unloved or be begrudgingly "accepted" "despite" her weight?
> 
> Ok is too late here, to be putting together my feelings on this issue... laterz peeps..


see.. we can hum and haw. We can blame science and tame science. We can become philosophers and psychologists all at once... We can do so many things to ease our 'guilt'. 
I have never met a fat woman (in my real life) that did not in some way wish she was thinner. Whether it was for physical reasons or for psychologial reasons..they still wish it. 
You may say.."but what about the role models On dimensions who love their fat who advocate it...etc" Honestly, i imagine for every one woman who accepts her fat there will be about a million who just don't.
i think at this point in western socity this is the reality for a LOT of women.
I'm not saying this so you all lose your hard-ons..or (wide-on's for the ffa's) its just that i think we have to look at the reality..
I'm not sure if this site gives such a balanced view of fat women........at the moment..
Though i feel, the times they are a changing.. and with the introduction of the 'bbw board' i think finally fat women will be able to say how it REALLY is.. and Fa's will have to listen, without excuses and babble.. and hear.
i thought your post was lovely. You were so sweet for fighting and taking the time to try to help and just for your feelings.. but i think there is only so much an Fa can know..
but if we listen..soon we will be able to hear the real views of bbws on a forum that just does not have Fa's at the forefront.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

mergirl said:


> see.. we can hum and haw. We can blame science and tame science. We can become philosophers and psychologists all at once... We can do so many things to ease our 'guilt'.
> I have never met a fat woman (in my real life) that did not in some way wish she was thinner. Whether it was for physical reasons or for psychologial reasons..they still wish it.
> You may say.."but what about the role models On dimensions who love their fat who advocate it...etc" Honestly, i imagine for every one woman who accepts her fat there will be about a million who just don't.
> i think at this point in western socity this is the reality for a LOT of women.
> I'm not saying this so you all lose your hard-ons..or (wide-on's for the ffa's) its just that i think we have to look at the reality..
> I'm not sure if this site gives such a balanced view of fat women........at the moment..
> Though i feel, the times they are a changing.. and with the introduction of the 'bbw board' i think finally fat women will be able to say how it REALLY is.. and Fa's will have to listen, without excuses and babble.. and hear.
> i thought your post was lovely. You were so sweet for fighting and taking the time to try to help and just for your feelings.. but i think there is only so much an Fa can know..
> but if we listen..soon we will be able to hear the real views of bbws on a forum that just does not have Fa's at the forefront.



Mer, I get that there is some truth in what you're saying. That's not the same as being right though. I'm going to do a fair bit of reading between the lines in your post. Pardon me if I misinterpret you. I'm really using your post to address a larger issue inside the whole FA guilt inquiry,

Too many women are unhappy with their bodies, fat or thin. To extrapolate from there that they are necessarily unhappy with their lives is both inaccurate and unfair I think. Of the many, many BBW I've known I'll concede that only a handful would have declined the chance to be smaller. Most of us have something we'd like to change about ourselves though, don't we? So what? Happiness, fulfillment, success, none of those things are dictated by our physical bodies. I am not my weight, waist size or BMI.

I know men and women built like Greek gods who are some of the most miserable people on earth in every respect. Happiness doesn't derive from how we look, what we know or what we earn. It comes from who we are, not with or without those things, but regardless of them. I've been criticized here before for idealizing some of the nonphysical things that I've come to appreciate about BBW. It's not intended as a criticism of thin women, just my personal experience with women of all shapes and sizes. You can call it rationalization if you want to but it's an opinion Im rather comfortable with.

Many (far from all) BBW seem less dependent on external approval for their validation and happiness. It isn't that they don't appreciate approval, admiration and acceptance; they just don't expect it or suffer as much when it isn't forthcoming. They are, on average, closer to what Maslow refers to as self-actualized. Thats a space worth being in and helping others move toward, IMO. (On a side note I think this non-dependency is part of what chafes some less confident or mature males here?)

I sense in your post that you are sincerely concerned for the well-being of BBW. I hope you will respect that I share that concern. What it has taken me most of 53 years to learn is that you cant care about just a part of a person without diminishing them or pushing them away. People deserve to be happy on their own terms and in whatever circumstances theyre in. Its not my job to make someone else happy. Thats their choice, pure and simple,

Neither can I assert someone would be happier if s/he lost weight any more than theyd be happier if they were taller, younger or anything else theyre not right now. Focusing on the BIG in BBW does nothing to support the premise that happiness is not contingent on size. Size is a feature, not a future. I really dont think dwelling on it more is going to help many people. 

As always JMO, but as someone who lived with and loved SS/BBW for almost 30 years I hope you won't disregard my perspective simply because I'm an FA? :bow:


----------



## CurvaceousBBWLover

I don't know what to say. I experience the guilt too, at times. Having a preference that many people do not understand is not easy. But I hold my head up high and I try not to worry about raising anyone's eyebrows.


----------



## The Orange Mage

When it comes down to it I'm just raged that I don't have a say in what I find attractive.


----------



## mergirl

Ernest Nagel said:


> Too many women are unhappy with their bodies, fat or thin. To extrapolate from there that they are necessarily unhappy with their lives is both inaccurate and unfair I think. Of the many, many BBW I've known I'll concede that only a handful would have declined the chance to be smaller. Most of us have something we'd like to change about ourselves though, don't we? So what? Happiness, fulfillment, success, none of those things are dictated by our physical bodies. I am not my weight, waist size or BMI.



Right, I'm not suggesting that fat people are unhappy with their lives, just that the majority of fat people i have met (well all except one bear who is a gainer i think) wan't to lose weight. Though how many times have you heard "i will do_____ when i am thinner". I think being fat, for many people changes their lives from their idea of what their lives would be were they thinner. Anyway, my point was, that this is from where my guilt stems: That i derive sexual pleasure from an aspect of someone that generally they wan't to change. I also feel guilty that because my gf knows i am an Fa that she might decide not to lose weight because of me. Even if it ment that she was happier. 
I just think half the time we don't look at the reality of the situation, which means we end up living in a bubble in which i'm pretty sure the air will get stagnant soon. Fa's CONVINCING themselves that all fat people are actually always happy about thier weight, because it makes them feel better about thier sexuality, non discussion of real topics such as wls, a huge barrier of exclusion between BBW's of different sizes..etc etc.. 
I do respect your oppinion, even though you are an Fa! . I was just talking about reality for a lot of Fa's regarding guilt. Maby though, guilt eventually turns into acceptance. I think this 'just before' acceptance bit is where i am at now.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

Ernest Nagel said:


> My guilt strings are wound pretty tight to begin with. Give me a few minutes and a couple of drinks and I can find ways to blame myself for things that happened before I was even born. That said I don't find myself struggling a lot with guilt in the abstract. Worrying about hypotheticals that may or may not occur can paralyze you. Nobody knows how many days were given or whether anything can be done to change that number.
> 
> My guilt is more in the here and now. Having been married to or in relationship with SSBBW most of my life I find it's the day to day issues that trouble me. When her feet or legs are painfully swollen, her breathing is labored, she's exhausted, chafed, just generally uncomfortable or any one of a hundred other things I question myself. Is bringing her food she asks for and enjoys an irresponsible indulgence? Does giving her the freedom not to work make her dangerously sedentary? What about having a housekeeper? I am neither a feeder nor an encourager. I support my partner's healthy eating and exercise habits any way I can without nagging or pushing. So how accountable am I that she is miserable? More than I can accept, Im afraid.
> 
> This pattern has repeated itself to some degree in almost every relationship I've ever been in. It certainly contributed, although it was definitely not the only factor, to the failure of my last marriage. I know its a consideration in my decision to stay out of romantic relationships. I want to make someone happy but acting on that intention ultimately makes her more unhappy. Its like a Catch-22 from hell.
> 
> I was reluctant to share this out of concern that it might make anyone on either side of this type of situation self-conscious or uncomfortable. That's just another example of the Protector mode I seem to always fall into I suppose? I feel compelled to defend someone I care for from harm or unhappiness. What happens though when you can't provide that protection, when you can't offer the support that's needed? Anger, frustration, despair is the short answer; all manifestations of guilt, at least for me.





mergirl said:


> Right, I'm not suggesting that fat people are unhappy with their lives, just that the majority of fat people i have met (well all except one bear who is a gainer i think) wan't to lose weight. Though how many times have you heard "i will do_____ when i am thinner". I think being fat, for many people changes their lives from their idea of what their lives would be were they thinner. Anyway, my point was, that this is from where my guilt stems: That i derive sexual pleasure from an aspect of someone that generally they wan't to change. I also feel guilty that because my gf knows i am an Fa that she might decide not to lose weight because of me. Even if it ment that she was happier.
> I just think half the time we don't look at the reality of the situation, which means we end up living in a bubble in which i'm pretty sure the air will get stagnant soon. Fa's CONVINCING themselves that all fat people are actually always happy about thier weight, because it makes them feel better about thier sexuality, non discussion of real topics such as wls, a huge barrier of exclusion between BBW's of different sizes..etc etc..
> I do respect your oppinion, even though you are an Fa! . I was just talking about reality for a lot of Fa's regarding guilt. Maby though, guilt eventually turns into acceptance. I think this 'just before' acceptance bit is where i am at now.



Mer, I thought you might want to have a look at this post (top) of mine from page 3 of this thread? I don't disagree with your basic concerns _at all_. As my exes health problems became more and more pronounced "acceptance" became nearly impossible for me. I still support her financially and pay for her health insurance because I feel so guilty over a condition she herself did nothing to avoid.

I'm just not certain guilt affords any access to change though? Support has to come from a place of acceptance and that includes self-acceptance. I never got there. The more I tried to support her efforts at weight loss the less effective they were. Seeing her struggling, hurting or starving to lose weight just exacerbated my guilt over being attracted to her size. The guilt eventually eroded my sexuality to almost nothing, at least my attraction to her. 

So, no, I don't think I'm trying to mitigate my guilt by saying fat people can be happy fat. I'm simply considering that having a partner desperate for them to be healthy and comfortable probably just makes them feel worse about being unhealthy and uncomfortable. 

Most people want their partners to be happy. In my case my ex was passive/aggressive and used my guilt to manipulate me. I completely accept my accountability for letting that happen but I don't think my situation was unique. People will tend to take power and control wherever they can find it and guilt makes great puppet strings. This is actually making me very sad to write about it. Short answer to the guilt question = s'complicated. :blink:

We could probably continue this convo in PM and save the board some e-ink, if you're interested Mer? There are some things I'm not really comfortable discussing publicly.


----------



## mergirl

Sure.  Yes, i would love a PM discussion. Though i am studying for an exam and reading for an essay i have due, so forgive me if i am slow to respond. xx
Oh and sorry to hear about your Ex.. she sounds awful!


----------



## Ernest Nagel

mergirl said:


> Sure.  Yes, i would love a PM discussion. Though i am studying for an exam and reading for an essay i have due, so forgive me if i am slow to respond. xx
> *Oh and sorry to hear about your Ex.. she sounds awful!*



No, not at all! She's generally a very kind and decent person. Didn't mean to represent her that way or give that impression! She just learned what it took to get what she wanted from me and kept getting better at it. It's unreasonable imo to fault someone for doing what works for them. I enjoyed spoiling and pampering her for a long time too. Since she didn't gain much weight for a long time I just never noticed how weak, sedentary and dependent she was becoming. It was a form of addiction and I was her enabler. I hope someone benefits from hearing about this 'cuz it's no fun to review.


----------



## joswitch

mergirl said:


> see.. we can hum and haw. We can blame science and tame science. We can become philosophers and psychologists all at once... We can do so many things to ease our 'guilt'.
> I have never met a fat woman (in my real life) that did not in some way wish she was thinner. Whether it was for physical reasons or for psychologial reasons..they still wish it.
> You may say.."but what about the role models On dimensions who love their fat who advocate it...etc" Honestly, i imagine for every one woman who accepts her fat there will be about a million who just don't.
> i think at this point in western socity this is the reality for a LOT of women.
> I'm not saying this so you all lose your hard-ons..or (wide-on's for the ffa's) its just that i think we have to look at the reality..
> I'm not sure if this site gives such a balanced view of fat women........at the moment..
> Though i feel, the times they are a changing.. and with the introduction of the 'bbw board' i think finally fat women will be able to say how it REALLY is.. and Fa's will have to listen, without excuses and babble.. and hear.
> i thought your post was lovely. You were so sweet for fighting and taking the time to try to help and just for your feelings.. but i think there is only so much an Fa can know..
> but if we listen..soon we will be able to hear the real views of bbws on a forum that just does not have Fa's at the forefront.



Hmmm....
well, three of my past long term relationships were with BBWs ... and I have spent quality time with a few more... and yeah there are one or two who love being fat and are happy with it = Yayz! 

But to be honest I always suspected that if there was a "magic pill" 
and the cost was losing what we had as lovers that 'most all my ex's would've popped that pill... aaaaand my most recent ex proved that very point to me...  though not a "magic pill" as such - 

when she began seeing me, knowing I was FA and adored her as I found her, (and having asked me if her losing weight would make her less sexy to me and I had to answer "yes") - she joined an extreme starvation cult or "diet group" as they are commonly known... she dropped weight at a crazy rate... 

I was cool with it for first 30lbs or so (two months), I could see that her ease of movement (never that bad) improved, though I think that was as much/more to do with her regular swimming building her strength than with weight loss... Anyway certainly she was happy and able to walk three miles out of town and back the following day in less than 55mins - so pretty fit&healthy... and she was still a BBW... and was and remains a very lovely and cute-as girl... 

BUT it turned out she had originally planned to HALVE her bodyweight... various motives - but "fitting in" to society was one... and after four more months of (for me) worry, insomnia and ulcers! (she was perfectly happy during this time by the way) she'd dropped over 110lbs!....

I wasn't wracked with guilt as such, but I HATE hurting someone I love.... and I couldn't bear the idea of reaching a point where I had to say to her that I didn't fancy her anymore.... especially as physically things had been so good between us and (according to her) had been a positive thing for her self image... I tried so hard to stick with her... But I was constantly torn inside (hence the ulcers - psychosomatic)... It felt very, very lonely to feel her vanish away and then hear her friends crowing over how "tiny" she was... seriously I was like "just.kill.me." ... And her starvation (450cals a day! seriously!) never seemed to end... we talked about it at length and there just seemed no hope that we could be happy together in the future... so in the end I had to finish it with her, which was very painful... and y'know I felt pretty shite about myself during and after that.... very much that I had failed her....

It was a learning experience for me though - turns out loving BBWs is my orientation, not a "preference" / option or fetish... 

So if I felt guilt or shame or embarassment (all of those were burned out of me when I managed to survive my childhood... It was a survival prerequisite....) then I probably would....but I refuse to feel guilty for being who I am! 

It's not like I ever lie to anyone about being FA and I'm totally "out" about it too... It's not like I can't deal with some natural change in my lovers body, either...

I've been in a long term relationship with a BBW whose weight went up and down in a 40lb range over the years and I had no problem with that, didn't bother me at all! still totally fancied her!... she thought I was "weird" for loving her and finding her hot, but she enjoyed it for the years it lasted.... she had health issues that were nothing to do with her weight and it just made me feel tender and caring towards her... 

I know if any gf lost lots of weight from (god forbid) a serious illness it wouldn't have affected me like my latest ex's *deliberate* weightloss, 'cos my wanting her to heal would have been "in-sync" with her probably regaining weight so no internal conflict there...

I've been in a LTR with another BBW who had no real issues with it either way apart from a "just getting used to it" as she'd not been big that long...

So in my experience at least - BBWs, like all people, are different in their attitudes and feelings about being big, which is the spark of hope for me...
And I know that my being FA is a source of joy for me and my BBW lover when I'm with someone... that it has it's negative sides too is a downer for me (and was for my ex, but she's moved on, happily), but although a BBW can starve herself thin(ner) I can't un-FA myself short of say lobotomy and even that might not work!

So sod it! I don't think I'm any more an asshole than the next guy, maybe a little less, I'm honest with myself and my lover(s) and I've met BBWs and SSBBWs who are cool with their size...


So I'm working hard on the whole fat acceptance propagation thing now... haveing realised how much society/family had negative effects on my last gfs self-image and hoping I'll find someone who is happy as she is and wants FA me as much as I want BBW her.. and yes it's a long shot, but so is every other damn thing in my life so y'know - onward!  :end rant:

(Oh and I'll never date a hardcore dieter again, if I can possibly avoid it, either...)


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## superodalisque

i was watching an interview with deepok chopra and the subject was the kama sutra. in the interview he made a statement about the difference between eastern and western sexuality --especially things like porn. he was saying that often the pleasure driver behind western sexuality is guilt, taboo and shame. i was wondering if this might be a reason why people tend to hold on to guilt in the FA community. can these emotions be a part of the excitement of it all. maybe the feeling that one is doing something "bad" adds to the arrousal in some way that some people acknowledge and other people might encourage only subconsciously because they are unwilling to accept that in themselves?


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## mergirl

superodalisque said:


> i was watching an interview with deepok chopra and the subject was the kama sutra. in the interview he made a statement about the difference between eastern and western sexuality --especially things like porn. he was saying that often the pleasure driver behind western sexuality is guilt, taboo and shame. i was wondering if this might be a reason why people tend to hold on to guilt in the FA community. can these emotions be a part of the excitement of it all. maybe the feeling that one is doing something "bad" adds to the arrousal in some way that some people acknowledge and other people might encourage only subconsciously because they are unwilling to accept that in themselves?


See, i had thought about this. Hmm better not stop being guilty then lest i lose my Fa'ness!! From the convo's i have had with a few Fa's, the 'Taboo' aspect of being with a big woman or someone who goes against society somehow is part of the thrill or attraction..though not all of it.


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## mergirl

Ernest Nagel said:


> No, not at all! She's generally a very kind and decent person. Didn't mean to represent her that way or give that impression! She just learned what it took to get what she wanted from me and kept getting better at it. It's unreasonable imo to fault someone for doing what works for them. I enjoyed spoiling and pampering her for a long time too. Since she didn't gain much weight for a long time I just never noticed how weak, sedentary and dependent she was becoming. It was a form of addiction and I was her enabler. I hope someone benefits from hearing about this 'cuz it's no fun to review.


I don't think you have to relive it if its painful. Perhaps if you recognise that someone has been through the same thing you can talk things through with them. I think if someone see's your post and see's themselves in it then it will help i'm sure. There is nothing worse than feeling you are the only person in the world who feels something or has experienced something.


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## Haunted

mergirl said:


> See, i had thought about this. Hmm better not stop being guilty then lest i lose my Fa'ness!! From the convo's i have had with a few Fa's, the 'Taboo' aspect of being with a big woman or someone who goes against society somehow is part of the thrill or attraction..though not all of it.



I suppose I can see this but I think at least I hope it's a very small part of the attraction otherwise it would seem a very attention whorish and look at me look at me kinda thing. I always kinda thought the looks and stare where because she's such a beautiful woman and I'm sure some people have a hard time wrapping thier heads around the fact that she is so beautiful and yet so big. I do get a little thrill out of the attention though know I just wonder if the root is size or beauty? You know for good measure ill say both !


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## joswitch

aargh that "110lbs" should read "90lbs" sorry got confused converting from stone.... doh!


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## joswitch

superodalisque said:


> i was watching an interview with deepok chopra and the subject was the kama sutra. in the interview he made a statement about the difference between eastern and western sexuality --especially things like porn. he was saying that often the pleasure driver behind western sexuality is guilt, taboo and shame. i was wondering if this might be a reason why people tend to hold on to guilt in the FA community. can these emotions be a part of the excitement of it all. maybe the feeling that one is doing something "bad" adds to the arrousal in some way that some people acknowledge and other people might encourage only subconsciously because they are unwilling to accept that in themselves?



Hmmm... well I won't speak for anyone else - but not for me - it just feels joyful and fundamentally "right" for me to be with a BBW, not furtive or guilty or anything like that... just.... wonderful... as well as y'know HOTT!

And re. Haunted's comment - yeah beautiful AND big is where it's at for me too..
an ex of mine used to sometimes, once in a while moan "I'm so fat" and I'd always answer "and beautiful" and smile and kiss her... *tear*


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## mergirl

I didn't really mean in an attention way, as in people will look at your partner and thats the turn on. Though i guess for some it might be. I was thinking more about the attraction to people who don't fit somehow into societal norms, kinna like rebel without a cause cept fatter! .
This is not my personal experience of being an Fa, though i can see where SO is comming from as i have chatted with a fair few others. I suppose there is a part of me that feels somehow a vicarious liberated feeling when someone just eats what they want, though i think that stems from quite a strange up bringing regarding food and having to be thin. I don't feel this is sexual though, but it certainly makes me feel a relief ..yeah i think relief is the right word. As for my Fa side i think its pretty shallow in many respects, in that i just love the look of big women. There is definatly something else though, which i can't quite put my finger on..but i'm working on it!! lmao

Oh..i was answering Haunted but for some reason his quote didnt come up.. the reason probs being me! lol


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## mergirl

joswitch said:


> aargh that "110lbs" should read "90lbs" sorry got confused converting from stone.... doh!


Its only a stone and a half difference. If your going to lose that amount, you may not even notice a stone and a half! Btw.. are you Jo's witch or Jo switch? I think the latter but i'm just checking!!


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## Ernest Nagel

superodalisque said:


> i was watching an interview with deepok chopra and the subject was the kama sutra. in the interview he made a statement about the difference between eastern and western sexuality --especially things like porn. he was saying that often the pleasure driver behind western sexuality is guilt, taboo and shame. i was wondering if this might be a reason why people tend to hold on to guilt in the FA community. can these emotions be a part of the excitement of it all. maybe the feeling that one is doing something "bad" adds to the arrousal in some way that some people acknowledge and other people might encourage only subconsciously because they are unwilling to accept that in themselves?



For me there's never been anything taboo or illicit in being with a bigger woman and I don't need to feel guilty to be aroused. Quite the opposite in fact. My FA guilt comes from exactly what I've discussed; the emotional and physical discomfort some women experience as SS/BBW. Any relationship to my sexuality is completely inverse. Less discomfort for my partner = less guilt = more comfortable with my orientation.

The tricky part is how to keep minimizing her discomfort from compromising her independence. Failing at either objective (comfort vs independence/mobility) results in guilt for me. That's basically the main reason I've taken myself out of the game altogether. Not recommending that, btw.


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## Teresa

joswitch said:


> ..................
> 
> And I know that my being FA is a source of joy for me and my BBW lover when I'm with someone.......



What a beautiful way of saying that and you're right, it IS a joy for a fat person to be with someone who loves their fat. 

I don't understand the guilt that many in this thread have written about, but I do know that I was fat before I ever met or even heard of an FA and I will be fat for the rest of my life, whether or not someone likes or dislikes my fat. I feel sad for those who have so much guilt over something they love and find attractive. I hope some day all those who feel that way can move past it and feel only the positive emotions that should come from being in a relationship with someone you find beautiful and that you care about.

Teresa


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## The Orange Mage

Bumping this thread due to it being important IMO and that I've been thinking about this subject quite a bit in the past months.

To add something:

Is FA Guilt necessarily a bad thing?

EDIT: Wait, pretty much been answered. Nevermind.

EDIT EDIT: Holy cow re-reading this thread did me some good. And to think I was considering a break from Dims.


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## TimeTraveller

The Orange Mage said:


> Is FA Guilt necessarily a bad thing?


Not at all. It gives me more empathy for my wonderful wife who day in and day out carries around all that gorgeous fat I admire so much. Her health, mobility, outlook etc. are all good, but I do have genuine concern at the effort she exerts when she stands up, or walks fairly long distances, or has to deal with tight spaces like small chairs. Thank goodness my wife is perfectly comfortable with her size despite the inconveniences, so I do my best to show my appreciation.

Here's a personal example of FA guilt which luckily was out of my hands. A few years ago my wife was diagnosed with hypothyroidism, which may be one reason she now weighs 400 pounds. Had she been diagnosed earlier she might not be so fat now. Naturally as a good husband concerned for her health I absolutely positively wanted her to be treated because hypothyroidism causes other health concerns besides obesity. She is now on medication, she no longer gains weight (nor has she lost any), and her general health and well-being are good. At the same time, I feel certain twinges of guilt to be happy she she gained so much weight before we knew about her thyroid condition because all that fat is so damn gorgeous. Maybe I just shouldn't overthink this. Her fat is there, we brought her hypothyroidism under control as soon as we learned about it, and does she think her fat might like a massage?


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## The Orange Mage

Maybe guilt isn't what I've been feeling.

Maybe it's Weltschmerz.


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## LordQuas

I dont feel any guilt because I dont have anything to feel guilty about. I didnt choose my sexual preferences and I dont force anyone to do anything they dont want to. I dont mack on big women because I think theyre easier or anything like that, Im just a regular guy who likes what he likes.


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## Szombathy

I feel guilt about the pain my weakness, indecision, and conflictedness about my FAness has hurt a number of people around me. The best thing for everyone concerned is to make a firm decision about how you feel and not deceive yourself or anyone else. I'm working on it.


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## ThinkingFA

My wife and I agreed that if her weight became a problem she would lose it. The decision to gain or lose was entirely hers, as it should be. I don't have to live in her body. Slightly high BP, fatty liver and bad knees drove her to lose 145 lbs over the last 18 months. I'm not the slightest bit attracted to her any more, but I love her. So I'll deal with it. Such an agreement might set your mind at ease.


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## TheCheckeredChaser

I feel very guilty sometimes. When i first started going out with my boyfriend he wanted to lose weight and i, being young and selfish, initially was like 'ew don't do that'. Then i feel like a dick, not only for thinking it, but saying it. It feels wrong to like someone to be a way that is "unhealthy" and is viewed by the general population as disgusting and bad. It gets to me sometimes. I think what is wrong with me and then i go on to roaming Dimensions and Fantasy Feeder. It feels wrong.... but feels more right than anything else


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## Tad

TheCheckeredChaser said:


> I feel very guilty sometimes. When i first started going out with my boyfriend he wanted to lose weight and i, being young and selfish, initially was like 'ew don't do that'. Then i feel like a dick, not only for thinking it, but saying it.



You need to work on getting over feeling guilty for what you think. It is OK to know that you don't want him to lose.

On the other extreme, obviously it would be a real dick move to try and control his actions, to force him or coerce him or trick him into staying fat if he doesn't want to. But you haven't done anything like that.

In between...that is the line that everyone has to draw for themselves. Personally, I think it is reasonable to be clear about what you like/want/prefer, but also to make it clear that you can live with whatever your partner's choice is. Basically letting them make an informed choice. But I could see the argument that simply by telling them your preference, you put pressure on them.

And another thought: nothing wrong with encouraging healthy habits for him, without focus on weight loss. Maybe that way you can both end up feeling better?


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## MrRabbit

I feel guilt as an FA too. 
I feel guilt that I love the body that my partners hate. 
I feel guilt that no matter how much I care about someone, and no matter how much a I love a partner for the person she is, that body size also is important for me. 
I feel guilt because I was reliefed that the WLS my ex GF had, didn't bring her the amount of weight loss she hoped for, even though I supported her.

This guilt is the primary reason why I hope that one day I find a GF who feels as good about her body as I do, but that will probably not happen in this life... Even though I agree that we shouldn't feel guilty for who we are, I think a certain degree of guilt is good, because it shows that you care about your partner.

But despite all the guilt, I am also proud that my love for her and her body helped my ex GF a lot in accepting herself as a BBW and becoming more confident. And I was very fortunate that she was very understanding and open to my FA feelings. That helped me a lot too in not feeling so guilty.


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## Nordiques

I don't want the girls who I prefer to feel guilty about their size, and therefore, I do not feel guilty about appreciating their size as a part of the whole of my attraction. Appearance-wise, I'm no idealized man, I'm tall and thin, not much muscle mass at all, and I don't have very masculine features. I would hate it if a girl who liked me felt guilty, or doubted, or wrong, or anything negative, about her feelings for me because of that.


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## KHayes666

I don't feel guilty at all anymore.

Because so many of my friends jump for joy when they lose weight, why should I feel guilty for liking them fatter? If anything that makes me a better friend for not judging them when others did.

Of course they could turn out like someone I know and turn around to give the middle finger to anyone who likes fat people because they support an unhealthy lifestyle...and even then I don't feel guilty.

Why should I feel guilty for what I'm attracted to, because so many fat girls want to lose weight I should feel bad? Even my own fiancee wants to lose a lot of weight and I have no problem with that. Why should I care or feel guilty for liking her just the way she is or whatever she will be?


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## butch

One thing that I know for myself, which I think many FAs may not have to think about, is how little control we all have about our health and longevity. I have been told, directly and indirectly, since childhood that I was going to die because I was fat. I was never told 'when,' but each and all assured me it would be earlier than it would be otherwise if I weren't fat.

So, the outcome of this was two-fold: 1) because I was dead fatty walking, I became less invested in treating my body 'well,' since I was gonna die anyway, why bother? 2) I stopped fearing my own death, in terms of letting the specter of mortality dictate how I lived my life, which may just be another way of saying point 1. 

Thus, when people begin to worry about my health, I wonder why they think there is some guarantee out there that I will live a long, healthy life if I was thin. Don't they know thin people who 'went before their time'? Don't they know thin people who suffer with Lupus, HIV, cancer, rheumatoid arthritis, and all sorts of conditions, diseases, and afflicitons that compromise one's quality of life?

I also wonder, don't they know people who 'don't fit in' and struggle against a world not built for them? Whether it is a world that keeps cab drivers from stopping to pick up a passenger due to racial stereotyping, or the lack of assitive technology allowing a deaf person to communicate with a hearing person? Imagine being a transgendered person and trying to find clothes that fit and flatter, or a little person looking for a car that they can comfortably operate. 

If a thin FA has not had to struggle with these questions in their own life, or in the lives of loved ones who aren't fat, then they live with so many layers of privilege that I wonder what kind of world they live in? I would urge FAs to look around and see how many people, not just fat people, struggle to live happily and healthily in the world, and to not discount the ways that fat people exist with marginalization like other stimgatized groups by assuming they have more 'control' to make themselves less marginalized.

That is what FA guilt boils down to, assuming that fat people are more responsible than any other group for their own ability to function in a world that refuses to grant them legitimacy, and feeling bad that one is somehow keeping a fat individual from their 'full potential' to assimilate into thin society.

It is as if thin people are allowed, without any moral judgement, to have health problems, to be grumpy at a world that keeps them down, to sometimes not have access to the material things one wants, and fat people aren't, that instead they have no 'right' to the indignities that come to all of us human beings living on the planet. 

I for one reject that. I am a viable, valued person, with a rich and beautifully complex life, even if I can't fit in a chair in the doctor's waiting room, if I have a rash in my folds that is hard to treat, if my clothing options are limited, and I get paid less than thin women for the same job. Just like a thin person is a viable, valued person, with a rich and beautifully complex life, even if they have less padding to keep them comfy in hard chairs, if they have a nasty case of psoriasis, if they can't afford the nice clothes their job demands, and they struggle to find a job with a living wage because they don't have a bachelor's degree.

If you want your partner to have smooth, non-messy, easy lives, date a Real Doll. Otherwise, recognize that partnership involves the mess and muck of being human with a body that will never be perfect, and just as your fat partner brings their own set of messy lives, you thin people have just as messy, complicated lives, with bodies that are just as vulnerable to the random suckiness of illness, disease, and even death, as us fatties.


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## Surlysomething

butch said:


> One thing that I know for myself, which I think many FAs may not have to think about, is how little control we all have about our health and longevity. I have been told, directly and indirectly, since childhood that I was going to die because I was fat. I was never told 'when,' but each and all assured me it would be earlier than it would be otherwise if I weren't fat.
> 
> So, the outcome of this was two-fold: 1) because I was dead fatty walking, I became less invested in treating my body 'well,' since I was gonna die anyway, why bother? 2) I stopped fearing my own death, in terms of letting the specter of mortality dictate how I lived my life, which may just be another way of saying point 1.
> 
> Thus, when people begin to worry about my health, I wonder why they think there is some guarantee out there that I will live a long, healthy life if I was thin. Don't they know thin people who 'went before their time'? Don't they know thin people who suffer with Lupus, HIV, cancer, rheumatoid arthritis, and all sorts of conditions, diseases, and afflicitons that compromise one's quality of life?
> 
> I also wonder, don't they know people who 'don't fit in' and struggle against a world not built for them? Whether it is a world that keeps cab drivers from stopping to pick up a passenger due to racial stereotyping, or the lack of assitive technology allowing a deaf person to communicate with a hearing person? Imagine being a transgendered person and trying to find clothes that fit and flatter, or a little person looking for a car that they can comfortably operate.
> 
> If a thin FA has not had to struggle with these questions in their own life, or in the lives of loved ones who aren't fat, then they live with so many layers of privilege that I wonder what kind of world they live in? I would urge FAs to look around and see how many people, not just fat people, struggle to live happily and healthily in the world, and to not discount the ways that fat people exist with marginalization like other stimgatized groups by assuming they have more 'control' to make themselves less marginalized.
> 
> That is what FA guilt boils down to, assuming that fat people are more responsible than any other group for their own ability to function in a world that refuses to grant them legitimacy, and feeling bad that one is somehow keeping a fat individual from their 'full potential' to assimilate into thin society.
> 
> It is as if thin people are allowed, without any moral judgement, to have health problems, to be grumpy at a world that keeps them down, to sometimes not have access to the material things one wants, and fat people aren't, that instead they have no 'right' to the indignities that come to all of us human beings living on the planet.
> 
> I for one reject that. I am a viable, valued person, with a rich and beautifully complex life, even if I can't fit in a chair in the doctor's waiting room, if I have a rash in my folds that is hard to treat, if my clothing options are limited, and I get paid less than thin women for the same job. Just like a thin person is a viable, valued person, with a rich and beautifully complex life, even if they have less padding to keep them comfy in hard chairs, if they have a nasty case of psoriasis, if they can't afford the nice clothes their job demands, and they struggle to find a job with a living wage because they don't have a bachelor's degree.
> 
> If you want your partner to have smooth, non-messy, easy lives, date a Real Doll. Otherwise, recognize that partnership involves the mess and muck of being human with a body that will never be perfect, and just as your fat partner brings their own set of messy lives, you thin people have just as messy, complicated lives, with bodies that are just as vulnerable to the random suckiness of illness, disease, and even death, as us fatties.



"dead fatty walking" - amazing! This made me *LOL*. And I don't do that often.


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## white_shinobi

I would say I feel a bit concerned sometimes about being an FA, the whole morality issue, as with anything that involves sexual attraction. 

I have just accepted it to be a part of who I am now. I don't have some dark past that drives me to control and dominate my partners or force them to gain weight and be dependent. Its like trying to determine what attracts anyone else to someone. As long as I keep reality and morals in check I don't see any reason to feel guilty about being attracted to fat women.


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## FATcha

During my marriage to a fat women I lost all guilt for desiring and loving her; that was until her family attacked me and my love and desire saying it was hate and hidden contempt. 

The love of fat women may take some time for people[including the ones doing the loving] to get used to.


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## AnFa

I literally hate myself sometimes due to my being an FA. I just wish I could wave a wand, and take away all the challenges being overweight can sometimes bring. The thought that what I find almost uncontrollably sexualy attractive can be damaging to ones health brings my guilt out in full effect. Since I was 11 I've dreamed of being with a 400-600lb woman. I seriously doubt I ever will though, and can't honestly say I'd handle it well due to that guilt even if I could. It really, really, really sucks.


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## amidsttundra

This is a subject close to my heart and especially significant in my previous relationship.

I'd always fetishized very very large women, but I had never had the opportunity to date a very large girl as there were simply none in my area. Then I met a girl online. She was 420lbs and gorgeous, we exchanged messages and eventually I went to see her, the relationship took off very fast and I made a conscious effort to read up on as much as I could about relationships with very large people.

Her weight had caused a myriad of problems, not so much with her health although she couldn't walk far and had a bad back caused by an issue not related to her weight but exacerbated by it, but specifically - socially - she had grown quite introverted and hated going out. She said she knew she was beautiful and loved her body, but she couldn't deal with the way people viewed her; she'd suffered depression and put on 130lbs in just 3 years so her change from large to very large had occurred quite quickly and emotionally she hadn't come to terms with her size and her back gave her a good excuse to stay at home. 

She had resolved to loose weight and had bought an exercise bike. I really wanted to support her endeavour, we'd be able to do more stuff together and she'd alleviate her back problems. But I kept enabling her to eat, a large part of our foreplay was around feeding and stuffing and the way she lost control around food drove me crazy and that in turn turned her on. She wasn't loosing weight and sex was still amazing. But I knew I was sabotaging her efforts and I told her I was. She knew, but she also knew I worshipped her and that made her happy. But I also knew she was not getting better. I was an enabler trapping her in way of life in which I was the only bright part. I loved that I made her happy but hated how my enabling was narrowing her life. We had been talking about going on holiday to Scandinavia when she'd lost some weight, but we had to cancel, she'd lost about 2lbs despite her best efforts.

I had to move to Glasgow for my course, I'd entered the merchant navy and I was acutely aware that I wouldn't be around to look after her all the time and if she gained weight it'd really threaten her mobility. She couldn't travel to see me because of her back and social anxiety and I couldn't afford to see her. We drifted apart and recently I've found out that she's begun loosing weight, I'm glad that it's making her happy and she's more mobile, but I think if we ever got back together she'd probably gain it all back.

I hate that, not only do I sabotage efforts to lose weight, but do it consciously as much as I try and be supportive. I love fat girls but I am constantly guilty about the impact being fat has on their lives. I try to absolve my guilt by being a supportive partner in every other respect, make them feel special and loved (she'd been bullied because of her weight in previous relationships). I was making her happier, surely that would count for something health-wise. But I know it's bull and I also know that I would be less physically attracted to her when she lost the weight. I love being an FA, but the morality of it has always been the hardest part and now my preferences ere towards very, very large girls I really have to modify the way I am in relationships.


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## Azrael

@amidsttundra

I think that's more feeder guilt as opposed to just strictly FA guilt.

The fact that you explained that you "kept enabling her to eat" and the fact that a lot of your turn on was based on feeding and stuffing makes me think that's more of the case as opposed to just strictly FA guilt.

Mind you, there's nothing wrong with feeder activities just so long as it is done with the right person...


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## amidsttundra

Azrael said:


> @amidsttundra
> 
> I think that's more feeder guilt as opposed to just strictly FA guilt.
> 
> The fact that you explained that you "kept enabling her to eat" and the fact that a lot of your turn on was based on feeding and stuffing makes me think that's more of the case as opposed to just strictly FA guilt.
> 
> Mind you, there's nothing wrong with feeder activities just so long as it is done with the right person...



Yes and no, I identify myself as a feeder and my ex partner knew I identified myself thus and also she found stuffing herself a massive turn on. She didn't identify as a feedee, but she was certainly aware that it was something I was interested in and I knew food was a large part of her sexuality even if her weight was not.

However, food was what had made her fat, because I loved her at that weight I enabled her to eat. I didn't actively force her to eat outside of foreplay but I didn't help her break the cycle of food being a central part of her life after her depression kicked in. I wouldn't necessarily identify that as feeder guilt because I wasn't actively encouraging weight gain, I was encouraging the maintenance of weight.

I see where you are coming from, but first and foremost I am an FA. I am attracted to fat, I am also a feeder, but I don't engage in it unless it is shared. However this is where a grey area emerges, because there are plenty of posts within this thread where FA's have identified a desire not to see their partners loose weight. First and foremost, with my ex, that was the main thing. 400lbs was a magical number for somebody who'd never been in a relationship with a girl over 250. I know it's number counting, but the extra weight also appealed to what I as an FA found attractive.

I wasn't sabotaging her efforts to loose weight because I wanted her fatter, I was sabotaging them because I didn't want her thinner. And I knew that was wrong.

In general terms, I do not find myself feeling guilty that I am attracted to larger girls. If I renounced my FAism today there wouldn't suddenly be a lot less fat girls in the world and those that there were (say if every FA renounced his preference) would simply end up enmeshed in the usual bullying relationship many of my former partners have recounted with "lads" who wanted them to slim down to _their_ ideal, so their partner could appeal to their peers. I understand the dichotomy of my argument having identified myself as a feeder, but to me, there is a significant difference in consensual weight gain than passive aggressive body bashing by the person who is supposed to adore you.


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## terpsichore

Esther said:


> most of the big people I know are plagued with self-esteem issues as well as with aches, pains, and various health problems. I realize this isn't always the case, but the big people I know (including my man) have got it pretty rough. It is very, very difficult for me to come out and say, "I am attracted to fat people and weight gain" then, because I know I'd get my throat ripped out. "How can you sexually objectify something which puts them through so much misery?"



this is how i feel too. actually made a kind-of-similar thread in the BHM/FFA forum but it didn't show up. i guess it's awaiting approval from the mods since it was my first post? 

anyway, yeah. i feel bad about being attracted to fat guys, because literally all of the ones i know are not happy with themselves, uncomfortable and self-conscious. and i don't want anyone to feel that way! especially someone i like. and my tastes as an FFA are pretty tame - I generally go for guys who are just chubby or slightly overweight. but i feel like a bad person for being attracted to something that makes the objects of my attractions so miserable.


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## ranterc

My guilt is not about liking larger women..not directly 

my guilt kicks in after certain phone conversations .. conversations that turn me on or how i feel when she tells me how she feels lately about all the weight shes gained
when i think about the things she loves to eat , and how she looks for me to encourage her ,
" omg i really want a peice of cake, i'm not even hungry i just really want so cake"
"so go eat cake" 
"but its 3am its too late" 
"just go eat cake if you want cake"
"but im going to get huge.... fine ill go eat"..
and shell eat it wile we're on the phone, i can hear her going to the kitchen , movements of plates , forks.. and then going back to her room to eat... "mmmm this is sooooo good"..she absolutley loves to eat
while this conversation goes on i picture her eating that extra late night desert and how it can only add to the weight shes been gaining, and it turns me on
this more or less is a repeat scenario. she feels guilty about eating the cake or ice cream or what ever , but i think it makes her feel less guilty if i tell her its ok.. that she should eat when she wants and not worry about it..
so why do i encourage her? of course its because i love all the weight she's gained..
but i know how unhealthy all those sugary deserts are.. before i eat certain things i look at the packaging to see how much sugar there is in it so as to discourage myself from eating that garbage..yet i encourage her when she looks for encouragement
Lately shes mentioned , because of a video she saw of herself, that she wants to go back down in weight..she was 195lbs when we first got together about 1 year and a half ago .. she's upto about 230 .. that was when she last weighed herself maybe 2 0r 3 months ago . im pretty sure shes gained abit more and so is she but she wont weigh herself .i told her that i liked her the way she is now but what was more important is her feelings about what she looked like .. and i meant it.. but i wished she could just be happy with at the very least, her current weight.Ideally , for me , she would just keep eating and keep gaining.. every so often she'll mention these feelings but she'll keep eating as usual..and every time i hope it will be the same, that she'll just keep eating as usual..." i want to lose weight but i just love to eat so much". is what she'll say. i'll give her some advice on dieting , portions etc.. but i'll always make sure to let her know that i'm just giving that advice because she's talking about diet not because i 'm not happy with her appearance .. and i know she knows this "if it was up to you i'd be 500lbs" and she laughs ..
the only thing that makes me feel some what less guilt is that she knows my motives, she knows that i like her weight and have absolutly no issues with her gaining more..
im not making her eat more than she wants.. she's admitted loving how it feels when she's stuffed ..."omg i am so full" she says as she keeps eating .. i only encourage her to eat when she seeks it ..
but does that make it ok?


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## Azrael

@ranterc, those types of things would honestly annoy me.

It annoys me because it feels like being such a tease and being extremely indecisive.

The next time that someone goes like that I would tell them to make up their damn mind (that's not what you _should_ do just what I would probably end up doing due to frustration).

Like really....

Are they going to try and lose the damn weight or are they going to just proceed to eat more junk food?

They should quit bouncing back and forth because I can honestly see why doing that can be really frustrating for any type of feeder because _you don't know what you should do_.

Do you tell them your answer and to go get more food? OR do you go and tell them no because they _SAID_ they wanted to lose weight.

Are they asking you because they _know what your answer is going to be in the firstplace_ or is it due to them actually not being sure.

You just can't win in that scenario.

So yea...I'd probably just tell her to make up her own mind.


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## myownway

@ranterc

Man, I can understand you quite well... I don't think her attitude is going to change and I think you might have to deal with that uncertainty for a long time if not always, but here's the good thing: she will most probably continue gaining. As for me, I found my solution in helping my wife stay healthy, while leaving the weight loss thing totally up to her and when she does want some treat, I never say "maybe you shouldn't", especially she is not really into junk food. So as long as you are aware of and ready for the fact that you might have to curb your desires if you notice any symptoms of your lady's health worsening, I guess you are doing nothing wrong now. Although it is true that I am far from objective.


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## choudhury

I can't say that I ever felt guilt about it. Then again, there are two things to consider:

1. I am not personally attracted to extreme obesity (immobility, etc.). My partners have all led perfectly normal and have all been healthy, including my wife, who is in her mid-40s. She sometimes suffers sore feet, knees, and other aches and pains that aren't helped by her weight (she's probably around 250) but nothing catastrophic. I honestly think that if she did develop serious health problems I would gently support any initiatives she took to lost weight, even though it be sort of anti-erotic.

2. My wife would be fat with or without me. She loves to eat. Early in our relationship, I positively encouraged her to eat, but eased off that when I realized that she was going to gain weight no matter what I did. Now I just discreetly enjoy it. So, what is there to be ashamed about in loving and desiring someone for who they really are?


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## myownway

choudhury said:


> 2. My wife would be fat with or without me. She loves to eat. Early in our relationship, I positively encouraged her to eat, but eased off that when I realized that she was going to gain weight no matter what I did. Now I just discreetly enjoy it. So, what is there to be ashamed about in loving and desiring someone for who they really are?


That's quite an interesting perspective . I like it.


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## choudhury

myownway said:


> That's quite an interesting perspective . I like it.



Well, thanks! 

I understand that guilt can come from the more extreme end of FA preferences. But a fair bit of FA guilt seems to come from force-feeding or extreme, life-compromising obesity or situations where, say, the FA is dating a relatively thin woman and wants her to gain, leading to tension in the relationship etc.. My whole thing is - why? Find yourself a lady who is naturally on the heavy side and who loves to eat. This doesn't mean launch into massive feeding sessions. Just let her be herself and feel she can be herself around you. Given that half the population is overweight, these ladies are out there.

When I first got to know my bride to be, she was maybe 165 - keeping in mind that she is short, maybe 5'2. I was intrigued by her pot belly. More to the point, she had an obvious appetite. Nothing dramatic, nothing out of some FA fantasy story. But, you know, on maybe our third date she made me dinner, and I noticed that her portions were pretty big; she probably ate more than I did, then commented later that she was "full." I noticed she never turned down food (and I was happy to provide lots of sweets, etc.). These are the sorts of clues that your woman is going to stay fat and probably get bigger. 

Sure, there were more dramatically exciting moments, when she'd be SO full after a restaurant meal that she'd have to sit down walking a couple of blocks to the car, or stuff herself so full that she'd have to undo her pants sitting on the sofa. The one time I tiptoed into "feeder" territory was when we went out to dinner and she was too full to finish. I commanded her to finish her plate, and she immediately did (later moaning about being "incredibly full"). We could, I suspect, have had a whole feeder-feedee thing, but it was ultimately never about that... more just about her BEING the fat chick (now fat lady!) she naturally is. That's what's most exciting, at least to me.

The recent holidays saw her gain even more weight. She can hardly button her blazers anymore, her belly bulges out against her slacks. I'm loving it. You can't go wrong with a girl who just naturally overeats. :wubu:


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## myownway

choudhury said:


> Well, thanks!
> 
> I understand that guilt can come from the more extreme end of FA preferences. But a fair bit of FA guilt seems to come from force-feeding or extreme, life-compromising obesity or situations where, say, the FA is dating a relatively thin woman and wants her to gain, leading to tension in the relationship etc.. My whole thing is - why? Find yourself a lady who is naturally on the heavy side and who loves to eat. This doesn't mean launch into massive feeding sessions. Just let her be herself and feel she can be herself around you. Given that half the population is overweight, these ladies are out there.
> 
> When I first got to know my bride to be, she was maybe 165 - keeping in mind that she is short, maybe 5'2. I was intrigued by her pot belly. More to the point, she had an obvious appetite. Nothing dramatic, nothing out of some FA fantasy story. But, you know, on maybe our third date she made me dinner, and I noticed that her portions were pretty big; she probably ate more than I did, then commented later that she was "full." I noticed she never turned down food (and I was happy to provide lots of sweets, etc.). These are the sorts of clues that your woman is going to stay fat and probably get bigger.
> 
> Sure, there were more dramatically exciting moments, when she'd be SO full after a restaurant meal that she'd have to sit down walking a couple of blocks to the car, or stuff herself so full that she'd have to undo her pants sitting on the sofa. The one time I tiptoed into "feeder" territory was when we went out to dinner and she was too full to finish. I commanded her to finish her plate, and she immediately did (later moaning about being "incredibly full"). We could, I suspect, have had a whole feeder-feedee thing, but it was ultimately never about that... more just about her BEING the fat chick (now fat lady!) she naturally is. That's what's most exciting, at least to me.
> 
> The recent holidays saw her gain even more weight. She can hardly button her blazers anymore, her belly bulges out against her slacks. I'm loving it. You can't go wrong with a girl who just naturally overeats. :wubu:


Well I won't go into telling my own story - you can check it in the "confused FA/conflicted foodee" topic that I have started if you're curious, but basically I did exactly what you said. Once I realized that I am into fat chicks and I like if they get even a good bit fatter as the time passes, I started having my eyes open for one. Luckily for me, it didn't take long before I met a girl who was a bit fat already, loved food and wanted someone who won't be trying to force her go on a diet, and at the same time was wonderful human being. 7 years later and we've been married for 2 years. And I guess my only part in her getting fatter meanwhile was providing her with a fat-friendly environment with accessible good food. Other than that, I guess just has the "fat girl" in her - she likes food and all bodily pleasures and her body simply shows it!


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## sarahreign

I don't understand why there should be any guilt felt when it ALWAYS takes 2 to tango..especially in the feedism fetish. If the female/male didn't want to get fat, they wouldn't. And if they want to lose weight, they have every right to. Why should an FA feel guilty for liking bigger women? I can see maybe where liking the extreme obesity where the person can't even get out of bed could make one feel guilty- BUT there rare cases where that extremely obese person LIKE being that big so I don't think any guilt should be felt. For any FA who feel guilty because their feedee/significant other MAKES them feel that way, isn't right. Why would somebody intentionally MAKE somebody they are with feel guilty for eating that XL slice of cake? THat just sounds like something completely different like attention seeking or some needy type behavior. I know that if I gain, it is because I want to...and if I happen to lose it is because I want to. Nobody should be put through a guilt trip for something they like!


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## KHayes666

sarahreign said:


> *I don't understand why there should be any guilt felt when it ALWAYS takes 2 to tango*..especially in the feedism fetish. If the female/male didn't want to get fat, they wouldn't. And if they want to lose weight, they have every right to. Why should an FA feel guilty for liking bigger women? I can see maybe where liking the extreme obesity where the person can't even get out of bed could make one feel guilty- BUT there rare cases where that extremely obese person LIKE being that big so I don't think any guilt should be felt. For any FA who feel guilty because their feedee/significant other MAKES them feel that way, isn't right. Why would somebody intentionally MAKE somebody they are with feel guilty for eating that XL slice of cake? THat just sounds like something completely different like attention seeking or some needy type behavior. I know that if I gain, it is because I want to...and if I happen to lose it is because I want to. Nobody should be put through a guilt trip for something they like!



For the longest time on Dimensions the feeders/wannabe feeders/FA's were made to feel like absolute crap for what they partook in, admired or fantasized about. The other half of the equation was deemed as poor souls that didn't know any better. I remember reading posts about how feedees were taken advantage of, didn't know anything, blah blah blah and it drove women like Ashley crazy because they'd post about how they were ok/could speak for herself. Yet these people pretty much ignored her to continue their crusade against fetishists.

I'll speak from my own experience. I'm an 18-19 year old kid fresh out of high school with a part time job and I've got women in their late 30's and 40's telling me how much of an asshole I am on a day to day basis because I liked the idea of/encouraging women to gain weight because I had figured out it made my dick hard a year and a half earlier. So when you're being shat on for not only what you like but for who you are, you start to feel ashamed of not only yourself but of your fantasies, thoughts, ideas, etc. 

Luckily those miserable human beings are long gone (mostly anyway) and younger members have a bit more freedom to explore their sexuality than I did at the same age. Still, the point remains when you have a toxic atmosphere and are still in a developmental stage, you're going to feel bad about yourself in a hurry.


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## Loki666

I know that I hate myself a lot of the times for being an FA. Ever since I was about 8 years old I had fantasized about being with a larger woman and that's all I ever wanted because after some self reflection I pinpointed it back to my days when I used to be in the cub scouts and I had this den mother who I wouldn't say was really big but she definitely was a BBW and she had always been very kind to me when my Mother really hadn't been. Anyway, right now I'm in this predicament where my wife has been contemplating getting WLS to lose weight to get back to her original weight she was when we had first gotten together back in 2009 when she was around 180 pounds at 5" and now she is at 270, but her highest weight was around 290 I think and she has this extremely rare chronic skin ailment called HS which she has been taking this extremely high dose of this medication called doryx to help maintain her abscesses from swelling up with puss and oozing. When she was first diagnosed it was over a year ago a little after we had gotten married and when she was diagnosed she was at Stage 1.5 going into 2, in this disease there are 3 stages and once you get to the 3rd stage the only way to treat it is by surgery and skin grafts. Anyway, she also has a spine degenerative disease which she was told if she doesn't lose up to 100 pounds she will most likely be in a wheel chair within the next three years. Anyway, I feel guilty because the only real reason I don't want her to be able to lose the weight has nothing to do with anything but my desire to want her to stay sexually appealing to me, and also my fear of her leaving me for someone else in the near future after she loses all the weight. Just to let you know a little bit more about myself I have never tried to get her to gain weight purposely, I have never coerced her into feeding sessions or anything, and I have also tried to help her with her diet last year by joining in with her diet and trying to change all of my eating habits to help her better be able to succeed in her being able to obtain her goals. 

But throughout this whole process I have never been able to shake the fear or guilt that I have for wanting and desiring for her to be able to remain at her size even if I know it's not something she truly wants. I went to her WLS seminar last night and all I could do was sit there and grind my teeth and just kept hoping that the whole thing was a dream. I know the Bariatric people have a support group for what they're all going to go through, but I am struggling in my own ability to be able to try and accept this whole thing and be able to speak to about my own problems about being an FA who just can't seem to shake the want or desire to be able to always have somebody the size that I like. Just like somebody stated before about wishing about having a magic wand to be able to remove these urges, I really wish that I could and be able to just get on with my life because all I do is feel guilty about every iota about who I am right now. I mean is this what defines me is my FAism? Or is this just a symptom of who I am on a much larger level? I don't know what to do, I mean I go see couples counseling with my wife and I even talk to my therapist about my sexual issues and nothing seems to have been working, and in fact I feel myself regressing. Anyway, this is all I have and I keep praying for God to remove the urges and wants and just for me to be able to move on with my life and be able to try to have a healthy relationship with my wife.


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## Tad

Sorry you are going through such a rough patch, Loki. Glad you are talking with a counselor, even if that doesn't offer any magic solutions. 

I think maybe key is giving yourself permission to be an FA--not to beat yourself up for how you FEEL. You can't really do a lot about that, after all, whether you are happy feeling that way or not.

What you have control over is what you do, and it sounds like you've been doing a good job with that. Really, in a tough situation, you sound like you are handling it better than many would. 

And it is a tough situation; totally aside from being an FA with a partner who needs to lose weight, you are dealing with a wife who has been diagnosed with two severe health issues which will probably impact the rest of your lives. That alone is hard to deal with. I'm pretty sure that, in the same situation, aside from being scared and freaked out, part of me would feel resentful ("this isn't what I signed up for!"), then a larger part of me would feel super guilty for being resentful. Could you have some of that going on, mixed in with the FA guilt? 

Not making it easier is that you are young enough that your sex drive is probably still about as easy to ignore as the bass at a heavy-metal concert. A lot of the stories you read about people dealing with relationship transformations due to health issues are with somewhat older couples, where the bass line is still there but toned down to a level where it is easier to put aside to some degree.

I guess what I'm saying is, don't waste any emotional energy on beating yourself up for not being able to magically put everything aside to be the perfect supportive husband. Just keeping doing what you can do, try to keep your emotional issues from weighting on your wife (who surely is going through emotional hell herself right now), and be proud that you are still putting one foot in front of the other and being there for your wife as best as you can.


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## Loki666

Tad said:


> Sorry you are going through such a rough patch, Loki. Glad you are talking with a counselor, even if that doesn't offer any magic solutions.
> 
> I think maybe key is giving yourself permission to be an FA--not to beat yourself up for how you FEEL. You can't really do a lot about that, after all, whether you are happy feeling that way or not.
> 
> What you have control over is what you do, and it sounds like you've been doing a good job with that. Really, in a tough situation, you sound like you are handling it better than many would.
> 
> And it is a tough situation; totally aside from being an FA with a partner who needs to lose weight, you are dealing with a wife who has been diagnosed with two severe health issues which will probably impact the rest of your lives. That alone is hard to deal with. I'm pretty sure that, in the same situation, aside from being scared and freaked out, part of me would feel resentful ("this isn't what I signed up for!"), then a larger part of me would feel super guilty for being resentful. Could you have some of that going on, mixed in with the FA guilt?
> 
> Not making it easier is that you are young enough that your sex drive is probably still about as easy to ignore as the bass at a heavy-metal concert. A lot of the stories you read about people dealing with relationship transformations due to health issues are with somewhat older couples, where the bass line is still there but toned down to a level where it is easier to put aside to some degree.
> 
> I guess what I'm saying is, don't waste any emotional energy on beating yourself up for not being able to magically put everything aside to be the perfect supportive husband. Just keeping doing what you can do, try to keep your emotional issues from weighting on your wife (who surely is going through emotional hell herself right now), and be proud that you are still putting one foot in front of the other and being there for your wife as best as you can.



Thanks Tad for replying to my post, I think it actually is guilt of feeling resentment for all of these things happening and me feeling resentful for not feeling more empathetic towards her needs for her health all the while I guess being an FA. I had finally came to grips about 5 years ago that I am an FA and I didn't care what people had to say anymore for the kind of woman I preferred as I would take her to the movies and hold her hand, take her out to eat and just enjoy each others company, take her to my Grandma's house for Thanksgiving and not as just friends but as a couple. 

I didn't really care what anybody thought at that point that this is who I am, this is what I like but still I felt guilty about this side of me as my wife even back then when we first got together when she would speak about her ex, and how she had lost 80 pounds before she got together with me that when they were still together she had shared her desires towards losing weight and she told me that he was more worried about her losing cup sizes than he was about her desire to be able to lose the weight and referred to him as a "chubby chaser." This of course didn't help matters with our relationship because I felt at that point there was no way I could ever be able to share that aspect of of my personality with her ever as it would be a total deal breaker. 

So, I tried to hide this aspect of me from her for the next 3 years up until she had gone through my computer and found everything anyway and this made me feel even more guilty because she started asking me questions like me wanting her to gain weight intentionally even though she wanted to lose the weight she had already put on and more. So, she is also going through a lot of emotional stuff with this right now too as she is also afraid of me losing interest and going for somebody else. 

I feel so guilty that she has been trying to speak to me about this process with her over the last couple of months and I have had no desire to talk about it and have not been there emotionally to support her as it seems like I am locked down emotionally and won't let her into my force field as I am afraid of letting it down only to get hurt like I have repeatedly in the past. Overall I just can't help but wish that all of this could just go away, I mean Tad like you suggested I keep trying to take two steps forward with this but it seems like I also keep taking three steps backwards, and no being 26 and her being 29 it is quite difficult when it comes to the physical part. I mean I remember when I did date skinnier girls not being able to perform the task at hand and feeling guilty about that. Now I'm just rambling. Thanks for the feedback though, I appreciate it.


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## YoJoshua

It is rough, man.

Biologically, we're hard wired with this desire, in my opinion, for the luscious, swollen, ripe, round, folding, plump feminine form. That it happens to be unpopular doesn't enter into it. We want what we want, and it's fierce. 

Where the guilt comes in is in the furtiveness, or trying to make someone else into something they don't want to be, and something that may possibly compromise their health. 

I have met more than a few thin women who, when I told them I would love nothing more than to meet and marry a woman who would let me cook for her, spoil her, rub her feet and her back, shower her with attention and treat her like a princess and who would, over time, grow plump and round and continue to drive me insane--

Said, "Wow...ok!"

Now, I'm just me, this is who I am, this is what I like, and I'm fine with it. 

Still waiting...


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## s13

Some of the larger ladies I've been with have opted for surgery and I'm fully supportive and behind them for losing weight. I have just told them I will always appreciate their heaviest weight but I'm with you all the way. I have met up with ladies who have lost 100 or 200 pounds and have wished I met them earlier. 500 to 400 pounds is a great effort though. I'm not into feeding or gaining, I'm not guilty for liking big big ladies.


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## Loki666

Just an update, so I had real deep conversation with my wife last night about my cares and concerns about her upcoming surgery and I must say it went really well, after talking to her and just seeing the overall pain and suffering on her face about everything she is going through because of all the strain her weight is putting on her body I just want her to be healthy and happy. We would like to be able to have our own child within the next couple of years and with the way she is now I know that it's just not possible and she basically told me that she's just trying to nip it in the butt before it gets too out of hand and before it's too late to be able to try to have our own child within the next couple of years. She then went on to tell me how she just wants to be able to get to a much healthier weight so she can be able to spend a much longer life with me and whether or not I would still find her attractive at around 175-200 pounds, because she isn't trying to get skinny, she wants to still be plus sized but a much healthier plus sized woman. And after a lot of reflecting yesterday I realized just how selfish I was being in feeling the way I did. So many men would be lucky to have the kind of partner that I do, and here I was putting her in an early grave just because I'm afraid of her losing some weight and leaving me but yet if she stays the same weight or gets even larger than she'll leave me anyway. 

She let me know yesterday if I didn't want her to continue to get the surgery done just tell her and she wouldn't go through with it, but she knows in her hearts of hearts that this is going to be the best thing for us to be able to grow as a couple. She's only 5" so 270 pounds to her might be like 315-320 to some other girls on her tiny frame. Now, I am in full support for her to be able to get the surgery and be able to get down to around 175-200. I'm just sorry that it took all of my selfishness and emotionally shunning her for this decision because of my own jealousy and insecurities for all of this to come about. Just to let you all know I am not ashamed of being an FA, I absolutely love big girls and I'm not afraid to say it. But as a human being I'm not always the most gracious with change and I'm going to work on this.

I decided I'm going to start planning ahead right now and start changing my own eating habits, and work with my wife so she has a better rate of being able to succeed in this journey than against her by keep what I'm doing even post operation because I do too want to be here with her for a long time, and I too want to be able to be a father and see my child grow up with their Dad and with my diet, inactivity, and my chronic smoking I too am putting myself into an early grave. Before I met my wife 5 years ago I never really understood what the term soul mate meant, nor did I really believe it but over the coarse of the last 5 years she has made me a believer and I truly do love her no matter what, so what if her waist line gets smaller, she will still be the same person I fell in love with and married. Overall I just want the same things she does which is for us to have a happy, healthy, successful everlasting marriage. We'll find a way to work things out, we're both recovering drug addicts who used to use together, we got clean together, and we can get through this together.


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## phelan4022

I have struggled with FA guilt since I knew I was an FA. My mother was hyper-critical of all fat people, myself included and would automatically equate being fat with being lazy and of less value. She was a slender woman that was incredibly afraid of being fat. Ironically, I think my being an FA and discussing it with her actually helped her to some degree to overcome that, though she still has hang ups with her post-menopausal body and the weight she has gained since. None the less, I am jumping a bit ahead of myself. When my Mom first found my stash of BBW erotica (I am NOT a fan of porn at all and never have been), she told me that the models would most likely be dead by the time they were 30. Meaning to 14 year old me that the thing I loved would kill the women I desired. Oooooh boy, that did a number on my head for years.

So, with my Mom's apocalyptic denouncement of my attraction ringing in my ears, I set out to discover if, indeed, my attraction was a fatal one. What I discovered lead me to my current profession and ultimately was the death of the guilt she seeded in me but it was a long time in coming.

When I was 16, I got into my first, serious relationship with a "chubbier (read 165ish when we met)" lady. She had been borderline anorexic right before meeting me, going days without eating anything at all, and she started eating normally as a result of our spending time together. Consequentially, she put on about 20 lbs in the first six months of us being together. Finally, there came a point when she brought it up to me and asked how I felt about it. This was the first time I ever discussed my attraction with a significant other. I broke down and cried and told her that I liked her the way she was and would not be bothered at all if she gained more weight. Unfortunately, she was both a foodee and still had all the psychological hangups with her body that she had had when she was anorexic and she did not have the self-esteem to make choices about her body for her own happiness. She didn't gain intentionally for me, she just stopped trying to limit her intake and ate what she wanted when she wanted. For a short while when she was in college (she was a grade above me and we were together for almost three years), I think she actually enjoyed it a little but that did not last long. I, being an FA, enjoyed her weight gain and her no restraints eating but I could see the self-loathing in her eyes when she looked into the mirror and I blamed myself entirely for it. We moved in together when I was 18 and she was 19 and I saw that self-loathing every single day. It did not detract from my guilt that she would tell me that she was only bigger for me and that, if we were to ever separate, she would lose the weight. I think she meant it as something special that she did because she loved me but it only compounded my own self-loathing. She was 220 at her heaviest, if I recall correctly, and though I was never so attracted to her physically, her loss of self-esteem and my guilt at the belief that it was my responsibility rendered me impotent. I could not perform for her. And, we were unable to explain to each other how we felt, being young and conflicted and inexperienced. Eight months before she left me, I told her that it would spell the end of us and I was correct. She left me in 2008 for a married man twice her age, a snare of circumstance and convenience that she only untangled herself from about a year ago. I didn't speak to her for almost five years but we recently reconnected after both of us doing a LOT of growing up and it pleases me to say that we are friends again. She has lost the weight and is doing well for herself, in the most part.

After her, I stayed out of relationships for almost four years, spending the time bettering myself and changing my life. I too gained weight with her, getting up to 310 lbs at my heaviest. Her leaving me was a sobering experience and I moved away from the small town where I grew up, went back to college, lost 130 lbs, found myself and grew up. I came to terms with my attraction and came out of the fat closet, loud and proud. However, my time of trial was not yet over.

The first relationship I tried to be in after my time of celibacy was with an old friend from the community from years and years ago, when I was a teen. We both had mutual interest in each other but she lived far away and I didn't at the time have the means to see her. She still lived many states away but I had more access to funds and transport, etc., so I found her and reopened our friendship, not without the hope that our old spark would still be there. She (I will not name her) was a model, an SSBBW and a feedee. When I knew her last, she was only in the low 300s but she had gained up to 450 then lost to the low 400s by the time we started talking again. I am a feeder as well as an FA but I have huge moral opinions about destructive weight gain, I'll post something I wrote about Susan Emman at some point that will make my stance rather clear. Anyways, the lady and I struck back up our relationship, long distance, and I was eager to assist her in her goal of weight loss for health reasons. She had passed her threshold and her weight was seriously impacting her health to the point that she wanted to lose down to about 200 lbs. I was both fine with that and excited to be able to help her. I designed her a training schedule and a eating plan that addressed all of her nutritional deficits and would have served to alleviate and remedy the vast majority of her health issues. However, she was truly a feedee and battled herself between wanting to be fed and get fatter and her desire to lose weight to literally save her life. I was conflicted as well, because her weight gain and her desire to be fed was a huge turn on for me, although not one I was willing to indulge at the cost of her life. I imagined a scenario where feeding sessions could occur after milestones and maybe a scenario where she could gain weight later on down the road in a healthy way after she stabilized her medical conditions. This was not to be. She battled more than her own cognitive dissonance, she suffered from depression, anxiety, suicidal and self-destructive tendencies as well as her desires to over-indulge and be fatter. I was torn between my desire to help her and yet not to enable any of her self-destructive tendencies. Ultimately, the relationship had to end before it truly got to start and she is now seeing an other feeder who gets off on her not being able to breathe when she walks a short ways. I obviously disagree with that aspect of the attraction but she is an adult and has the power to make her own choices and take responsibility for them.

Now, I am with a wonderful BBW who, though she still deals with some body issues, is fairly comfortable with her body and has lost weight down from the mid 300s to the mid-high 200s because of self-empowerment and her desire to physically be able to do more. I support her in this 100%. However, because of life stress, she recently regained a little of the weight and is having trouble getting back on the horse, so to speak. She knows about my attraction to her figure, she knows that the weight she gained back excites me but she also knows I will support her in whatever she chooses to do with her body. And, I am the first FA she has ever dated so she has never truly had anyone who appreciated her body for the way it is. She struggles but she is starting to see that she doesn't need to change to be better, that she can do it if she wants but if she wants to indulge a little, that's okay too. It is a work in progress but I love her immensely and I am patient, so patient. I will love her and support her and show her that she is a beautiful and amazing woman.

That's my story, in a nutshell.


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## Marlayna

It sounds like you're in a good place now. Thanks for sharing your story.


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## phelan4022

Marlayna said:


> It sounds like you're in a good place now. Thanks for sharing your story.



Thank you!


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## myownway

Thanks for sharing it indeed. Seems like you had quite a plenty of experiences... It's a good thing that you're now with a lady who seems much more stable that you previous love interests.


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## jonw3000

Man your first relationship and the impotence due to guilt sounded all too familiar...


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## phelan4022

jonw3000 said:


> Man your first relationship and the impotence due to guilt sounded all too familiar...



How did that turn out for you, as I think it is a safe guess to say you've been through something similar?


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## ToniTails

Being compassionate rocks.

However, to feel that there is something wrong with you for liking a physical part of someone that may or may not cause them an issue (health or otherwise) is an incredibly self important idea. That fat chick is gonna be fat whether you think she's sexy or not. Where exactly does your hard-on when her belly jiggles cause her any pain and suffering? (unless you're prone to smacking her with it- and who knows she may like it? :-D )

I wonder if all those big boob lovers out there whip their backs repeatedly in lament of the back pain their partners may suffer due to the fact that they love their giant breasteses?

It makes just as much sense to hold yourself accountable in this situation as it would to hold yourself in high esteem because a women who you view as being in the prime of health gives you a woody.

I don't care what physically attracts someone, whether it be bald heads, huge biceps, skinny ankles... if they are only into a person for that physical attribute there is always bound to be disappointment for both folks involved in that kind of relationship because humans mutate on a regular basis. It's how we roll.

Of course another part of being human is to be as confused as shit about why you feel a certain way and seek to find answers. I think these kind of topics are important, and I'm glad you spoke up.


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## x0emnem0x

phelan4022 said:


> I have struggled with FA guilt since I knew I was an FA....



Thanks for sharing. I certainly enjoyed reading that. It's weird how much other peoples opinions can change us so much and it's always interesting to here the store from the FA perspective. I've only ever talked to a couple of guys that got that in depth about their preferences and got to know them that well so for you to put it all out there like that on here. You've come a long way!


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## phelan4022

ToniTails said:


> Being compassionate rocks.
> 
> However, to feel that there is something wrong with you for liking a physical part of someone that may or may not cause them an issue (health or otherwise) is an incredibly self important idea. That fat chick is gonna be fat whether you think she's sexy or not. Where exactly does your hard-on when her belly jiggles cause her any pain and suffering? (unless you're prone to smacking her with it- and who knows she may like it? :-D )
> 
> I wonder if all those big boob lovers out there whip their backs repeatedly in lament of the back pain their partners may suffer due to the fact that they love their giant breasteses?
> 
> It makes just as much sense to hold yourself accountable in this situation as it would to hold yourself in high esteem because a women who you view as being in the prime of health gives you a woody.
> 
> I don't care what physically attracts someone, whether it be bald heads, huge biceps, skinny ankles... if they are only into a person for that physical attribute there is always bound to be disappointment for both folks involved in that kind of relationship because humans mutate on a regular basis. It's how we roll.
> 
> Of course another part of being human is to be as confused as shit about why you feel a certain way and seek to find answers. I think these kind of topics are important, and I'm glad you spoke up.



You are entirely correct and that is the realization I came to as I grew up, figuratively, I was the most conflicted around age 19.

Now, I am simply proud to admire women, to perceive beauty and be able and willing to articulate it for others and myself. There is a deep and entrancing mystery to attraction and I have incorporated that into even my system of spirituality. 

I'm just proud of curvaceous ladies and want them to know that they are just as beautiful (more so, in my opinion) and just as valuable as anyone else.


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## phelan4022

x0emnem0x said:


> Thanks for sharing. I certainly enjoyed reading that. It's weird how much other peoples opinions can change us so much and it's always interesting to here the store from the FA perspective. I've only ever talked to a couple of guys that got that in depth about their preferences and got to know them that well so for you to put it all out there like that on here. You've come a long way!



Thank you, as I said, I think even my attraction is a part of my spiritual path and I want to understand where I am and why. Life is fascinating.


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## Extinctor100

ToniTails said:


> ...to feel that there is something wrong with you for liking a physical part of someone that may or may not cause them an issue (health or otherwise) is an incredibly self important idea. That fat chick is gonna be fat whether you think she's sexy or not.
> 
> ....
> 
> It makes just as much sense to hold yourself accountable in this situation as it would to hold yourself in high esteem because a women who you view as being in the prime of health gives you a woody.



Definitely true and this is critical to the resolution of the thought overall, as Taylor (phelan4022) pointed out so correctly. The conflict arises as we struggle with how much control we have over others - our ability to lure, coerce, convince, or manipulate them into doing things we want. It takes a person of maturity, confidence, and humility to step back and go "I'm attracted to this person because of what he/she is like and I don't have to insert my self-importance into whether it's 'right.' I'm attracted to and accepting of someone for the way they are, that's what I'm supposed to do!"


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## phelan4022

Extinctor100 said:


> Definitely true and this is critical to the resolution of the thought overall, as Taylor (phelan4022) pointed out so correctly. The conflict arises as we struggle with how much control we have over others - our ability to lure, coerce, convince, or manipulate them into doing things we want. It takes a person of maturity, confidence, and humility to step back and go "I'm attracted to this person because of what he/she is like and I don't have to insert my self-importance into whether it's 'right.' I'm attracted to and accepting of someone for the way they are, that's what I'm supposed to do!"



Rather! And, I am flattered that you remembered my name. :bow:


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## ToniTails

can i get an AMEN???????? 



View attachment resized_jesus-says-meme-generator-amen-brotha-db6814.jpg


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## Jon Blaze

There was a similar thread on Curvage, so I'm just going to copy it and add a few things.

I'm not a feeder, and I am not sure if I ever will become one. Over the past few years however, I've had moments where I almost felt like an encourager. I have a more "Live and Let Live" perspective when it comes to potential partners, and even though I never really egged on anyone to gain, there were moments where I gave extreme approval. It mostly involved models and the like, but it started to spill over into potential partners. It was different for me because my preferences are interlaced with acceptance, but thankfully it hasn't affected my core. It started becoming an issue for me that likely stemmed from my consumption of content.

My dating history is abysmal, so I haven't gotten a chance to really see any major issues related to my preference. My ex is 5'8" and 321 pounds, but we only dated for about a month (and are still friends). The only issue beyond incompatibility was she thought I paid too much attention to her midsection. Prior to that I had a relationship that made me question my development as a person, a relationship where she lost 100 pounds and ribbed me for my preferences, high school puppy love , and a bunch of failed attempts that never really came to fruition.

Being an FA isn't an issue for me, but I want to have more control over my expression of it like I did in the past. Fantasy and reality aren't necessarily compatible. Sexual attraction and schwing aren't synonymous as well, but I consumed so much content the two things almost became one in the same. I don't question who I am as much as the best way to express myself. I still generally show interest in women I already think are great. The source of my guilt is not being able to separate those things in a way that is conducive to healthy relationships. But I can only blame myself for not making it enough of a priority to do something about it earlier. Thankfully that has started to change.

I think an important issue related to this thread is the difference between dating someone whose size and(or) shape is a component of why you are attracted to them versus it being an integral part of the relationship. Most of my relationships have been the former, but the struggles I mentioned made me almost want them to become the latter.

All relationships come with calculated risks. Preferences are just a group among many others.


(By the way: I am in no way implying that being a feeder is wrong. I'm just saying it isn't who I am.)


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## KHayes666

Jon Blaze said:


> There was a similar thread on Curvage, so I'm just going to copy it and add a few things.
> 
> I'm not a feeder, and I am not sure if I ever will become one. Over the past few years however, I've had moments where I almost felt like an encourager. I have a more "Live and Let Live" perspective when it comes to potential partners, and even though I never really egged on anyone to gain, there were moments where I gave extreme approval. It mostly involved models and the like, but it started to spill over into potential partners. It was different for me because my preferences are interlaced with acceptance, but thankfully it hasn't affected my core. It started becoming an issue for me that likely stemmed from my consumption of content.
> 
> My dating history is abysmal, so I haven't gotten a chance to really see any major issues related to my preference. My ex is 5'8" and 321 pounds, but we only dated for about a month (and are still friends). The only issue beyond incompatibility was she thought I paid too much attention to her midsection. Prior to that I had a relationship that made me question my development as a person, a relationship where she lost 100 pounds and ribbed me for my preferences, high school puppy love , and a bunch of failed attempts that never really came to fruition.
> 
> Being an FA isn't an issue for me, but I want to have more control over my expression of it like I did in the past. Fantasy and reality aren't necessarily compatible. Sexual attraction and schwing aren't synonymous as well, but I consumed so much content the two things almost became one in the same. I don't question who I am as much as the best way to express myself. I still generally show interest in women I already think are great. The source of my guilt is not being able to separate those things in a way that is conducive to healthy relationships. But I can only blame myself for not making it enough of a priority to do something about it earlier. Thankfully that has started to change.
> 
> I think an important issue related to this thread is the difference between dating someone whose size and(or) shape is a component of why you are attracted to them versus it being an integral part of the relationship. Most of my relationships have been the former, but the struggles I mentioned made me almost want them to become the latter.
> 
> All relationships come with calculated risks. Preferences are just a group among many others.
> 
> 
> (By the way: I am in no way implying that being a feeder is wrong. I'm just saying it isn't who I am.)



Your dating history being abysmal isn't a reflection on you, its the women you tried to get with. Some of them simply suck and others were expecting far more out of you than they were willing to give you.

You're a much better person than me and you deserve better.


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