# Your opinion on these body pictures..??



## ~~Steph~~ (Jun 10, 2006)

*What do you think of this look??
I am new here and I am just wondering what peoples opinions are..
Thanks very much.. :kiss2: *
























*Does it disgust you??
Do you find it appealing??
Not bother you/ dont think about it??

Thanks for the answers.. im just curious thats all. IMO..They are waaay too thin.. and need to gain to be sexy.. i mean not even average weighted people appeal to me.. this is why Im here I suppose *


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## Mini (Jun 10, 2006)

They don't look happy. Very hollow eyes on most of 'em. Healthy's debatable, and I don't find them particularly attractive. But hey, since when did my opinion matter?


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## ~~Steph~~ (Jun 10, 2006)

*OF COARSE your opinion matters..! *hugs*.. I aggree with you about that..Thanks heaps for the reply*


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## kilo riley (Jun 10, 2006)

i just lost my appetite.


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## ~~Steph~~ (Jun 10, 2006)

*Sorry.. im a bit confused. does that mean you admire this?? You want to look like them?? Or are u saying their so gross that you dont wanna eat?? LOL.. IM so confused ahha *


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 10, 2006)

I don't think that they are "gross"; that's just as mean as speaking ill of a fat person. 

I do think that they are very underweight, and very unhealthy in appearance.


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## ThatFatGirl (Jun 10, 2006)

My first insensitive thought for each is "get that girl a sandwhich," but more realistically, I think they all need medical and psychological attention.. 

It is sad that bodies this painfully thin were ever seen as fashionable. It really fucks with the heads of little girls who have natural curves and big girls are made to feel like super fat freaks, when in reality, we are the more "normal" ones.

The Dolce & Gabbana ad takes me back to my first year in art school when it was time to apply for the fashion department, after dreaming through all of my childhood of being in the fashion biz, when faced with my fellow students calling the likes of Cindy Crawford and Naomi Campbell fat, I balked and opted for the drawing and painting department instead. I still took all of the accessories, illustration and costume history courses and enjoyed fashion then as I do now, from afar and with a clearer eye. My self esteem was (and is) better for it.


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## mossystate (Jun 10, 2006)

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm....


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## Jack Skellington (Jun 10, 2006)

TraciJo67 said:


> I do think that they are very underweight, and very unhealthy in appearance.



What she said.


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## gangstadawg (Jun 10, 2006)

i find it hard to believe that any guy would find these kinds of women attractive. i mean damn some men have bigger boob then these women lol.


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## CurvaceousBBWLover (Jun 10, 2006)

They look like famine victims. I have no idea how any man could find them attractive.


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## gangstadawg (Jun 10, 2006)

CurvaceousBBWLover said:


> They look like famine victims. I have no idea how any man could find them attractive.


yeah i agree. in the U.S. food is plentiful and we have people trying to starve on purpose.


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## GPL (Jun 10, 2006)

The gay designers and photographers think they are hot. But what do they know about a guy who likes women? They still believe this is what we wanna see, but guys don't want to see this.
I mean, I am 200lbs at 6'2,5 and people call me fat and that I need to lose weight, or else I'll never find a girl!! Where on earth are we now??

GPL.


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## mossystate (Jun 10, 2006)

gangstadawg said:


> i find it hard to believe that any guy would find these kinds of women attractive. i mean damn some men have bigger boob then these women lol.


Gee, and here I am sitting here thinking this has more to do with things like...are these women killing themselves to fit some ideal in the fashion world...not whether any man finds them attractive.

I guess I do not see a whole lot of good in bashing these women.

Hate to tell you this, but there are those 
who think that a person can never be too big...same sick coin...really...after a certain point, people become 'weak'..and for some that is a turn on.Believe it or not, women are not on this earth to be ok for you(general 'you') Can you imagine(ha) people who post pics of very fat women..and say the same things..???


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## 31mike (Jun 10, 2006)

It may just be me, but I think they are WAY to skinny


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## NancyGirl74 (Jun 10, 2006)

Two things:

1. I don't like to be judged about my appearance so I guess I shouldn't do that to others. However, I still find it worrisome that young girls base their own body images on pictures of models like these women.

2. I kinda like the bra on the first chick


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## blargolis (Jun 10, 2006)

I just hope they don't encounter a strong wind. Woosh!


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## IdahoCynth (Jun 10, 2006)

I don't believe that bodies should be judged like a dairy cow at the county fair. Their bodies are their business. 

I feel badly for them. We live in a very sick society.


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## Coop (Jun 10, 2006)

No.....just no.


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## Totmacher (Jun 10, 2006)

This isn't about the moral implications. This is about what people find attractive, and for me that's not it. I am intrigued though, but it's the way I'm intrigued when I see an unusually large or intricate arthropod _eg_ a praying mantis or a hissing cockroach.


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## fatlane (Jun 10, 2006)

They make the clothes look good. That's why they're used. Fuller figures will get people thinking about what's in the clothes. With nothing inside the clothes, one can concentrate on the product for sale.


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## Still a Skye fan (Jun 10, 2006)

A couple of the girls just look normally slender, the rest look downright gaunt.

I don't know anything about the personal lives of these women but I think America is a bizarre society when we have record levels of obesity and women are supposed to look like this.

I don't get it either.


Dennis


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## Ned Sonntag (Jun 10, 2006)

I'd do Paris:smitten: if she really wanted me to.


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## fatlane (Jun 10, 2006)

Truth be told, I'd rather see 'em fat. Then again, I don't buy women's clothing.


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## fatlane (Jun 10, 2006)

Ned Sonntag said:


> I'd do Paris:smitten: if she really wanted me to.


 Better check her shot record prior to such an engagement with the celebritute...


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## comngetmeFA (Jun 10, 2006)

I like the white shoes... 

Seriously though, there is a population of men out there who do find these women (extremely thin) attractive. i have even heard of some men who have fetishes for women who are supposedly bulimic and/or anorexic, however strange it may seem.

But I guess there can be a comparison to men who like extremely thin women (not anorexic/bulimic) and men who like big women--both have their specific preferences.


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## Michaela (Jun 10, 2006)

I think the first picture is amazing, her body is beautiful and to be honest i would kill to have a body like hers. But the last picture is horrible...
I guess it's the same as with BBWs - you can't generalize it.
Some big bodies are beautiful and some are not and some thin bodies are beautiful and some are not. (from a personal point of view, of course)


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## 1300 Class (Jun 10, 2006)

If the question is, do I find them attractive? Then the answer is no. 
Do I despise them for it? No. 
Do I think they are disgusting? Not really. 
Would they look better with alot more weight? Yep.


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## FreeThinker (Jun 10, 2006)

CurvaceousBBWLover said:


> They look like famine victims.


I believe they _are_ victims, of a sort. I feel sorry for them, for having 'bought into'/'sold out to' not only the notion that thinner is better, but the notion that fitting into an image (_any_ image) is important.

Dietary and health issues aside, these women will always have to be mindful of their looks. They are giving up their lives in terms of their time, privacy, and autonomy.

As the pendulum of public perception sways further from the 'herion chic' look of the 80s, and as more FAs are becoming vocal about their preferences, these women will most likely be considered attractive only by the minority that exists between those who would consider them too thin, and those at the other end of the spectrum who would _still_ consider them too 'fat'. At issue now is not whether or not they are _attractive_, but whether or not they are _marketable_.

In this case, they are both _perpetrators_ and _victims_ of size non-acceptance.

In answer to the question: I do not find this type of body attractive, and am disturbed at the realization that I, too, am shallow enough to feel this way. 



*-FreeThinker*



(700th post! WooHoo!)


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## FreeThinker (Jun 10, 2006)

fatlane said:


> Truth be told, I'd rather see 'em fat. Then again, I don't buy women's clothing.


_*No?*_

Where _do_ you get your darling ensembles, then?


...


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## gangstadawg (Jun 10, 2006)

Ned Sonntag said:


> I'd do Paris:smitten: if she really wanted me to.


well i would dare go out or even *DO* paris hilton. unless im just for her money. i would do that to any bbw but i would gold dig her.


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## Barnes (Jun 10, 2006)

Being in high school, it makes me very sad. Because as proud I am of being a BBW, it still kind of depresses me that I'll never look like that. I can't help it


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## fatgirl33 (Jun 10, 2006)

Ugh, I won't mince words.... I find them supremely UNattractive.

To me, looking at those bodies is like looking at a terrible sickness or wound. It pains me to think that a portion of the populace thinks that is the ideal (perhaps the majority?).

I'm not saying there aren't any skinny attractive people. Just not those ones, not THAT skinny!

Brenda


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 10, 2006)

I agree; the first picture is absolutely beautiful. She's hot. The others look decidedly unwell.


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## fatlane (Jun 10, 2006)

The first one is filtered and airbrushed and soft focused... do the same things to Donald Rumsfeld, and _he'd_ look hottt.


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## gangstadawg (Jun 10, 2006)

fatgirl33 said:


> Ugh, I won't mince words.... I find them supremely UNattractive.
> 
> To me, looking at those bodies is like looking at a terrible sickness or wound. It pains me to think that a portion of the populace thinks that is the ideal (perhaps the majority?).
> 
> ...


actually it closer to the majority of white populace (no offense im not racist) prolly likes this but everyone else no.


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## LynzeeMoon (Jun 10, 2006)

The pictures make me feel really bad for the girls... seeing their ribs and bones protruding out just kinda makes me feel sad. I wish I could take them all out for ice cream sundaes! :eat2:


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## vega72 (Jun 10, 2006)

All i would ask is this......this person posted these pics on a web board that is dedicated to the admiration of the 'fuller figure' and all I have to ask is what is the intended reaction that is expected?
We all know that most people here won't find these women attractive...so is the poster trying to ask a serious question or trying to get us all to react? which ever the answer is, personally, i don't like this body shape, these girls are just living, breathing clothes hangers employed by a narcisitic fashion world. 
Hey, each to there own, but to quote Austin Powers..'Its not my bag, man'...nuff said


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## vega72 (Jun 10, 2006)

I have to appologise, I didnt see the last comment made on the original post....Yes they are way too thin, but that's in 'our' view, many people out there go for this stuff...They will never understand us and we will never understand them....and the world turns once more.....


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## Totmacher (Jun 10, 2006)

I'm gonna try anyway. Anyone wanna tell me what's so hot about the first girl? When I look at the picture I'm struck by how unusual it looks, I wonder if she can get up under her own power, I even admire the makeup job, eyes, and bone structure; but I don't see anything attractive.


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## Karebr12 (Jun 10, 2006)

I starve myself to look like these women. I hope someday I can look like that too... and yet, at the same time, I wouldn't even be slightly attracted to a very thin man. I _adore_ chubby guys and even appreciate the beauty of chubby women, but for my own body, personally, I want to be as thin as I can get.


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## NancyGirl74 (Jun 11, 2006)

To me the first girl looks naturally thin compared to the others who look starved. Still, I don't find bones popping through skin attractive. I also very strongly feel that it is not a healthy for our young and impressionable girls to see pictures of women looking that thin. 

A few people mentioned that men find very thin women attractive. To be honest I have yet to talk to a guy who would find a woman that skinny attractive. I think the majority of men are all about the Pam Anderson's, JLo's, and Halle Barry's of the world. Thin but not skinny and with lots and lots of curves. 

Personally, I'd love a body like Tyra Banks or Selma Hayek.


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## JustPlainJim (Jun 11, 2006)

gangstadawg said:


> i find it hard to believe that any guy would find these kinds of women attractive. i mean damn some men have bigger boob then these women lol.



Hey, leave me and my D's out of this. >>;

What do I think of them? Well, each person is entitled to their own tastes, and I believe that if a woman is happy with the way she looks (and is in reasonable health) then it's A-OK by me... Now that I've got the politically correct non-offensive reply out of the way, here's my first thought.

*starts playing Rob Zombie*
Tssss-t-t-tss-t-t-tss-t-t-tss
"Who is this iresistable creature with an insatioable love for the dead?"
_LIVING DEAD GIRL!!_

*headbangs*

NOT my thing.


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## gangstadawg (Jun 11, 2006)

JustPlainJim said:


> Hey, leave me and my D's out of this. >>;
> 
> What do I think of them? Well, each person is entitled to their own tastes, and I believe that if a woman is happy with the way she looks (and is in reasonable health) then it's A-OK by me... Now that I've got the politically correct non-offensive reply out of the way, here's my first thought.
> 
> ...


i mean damn when i look at those girls the first thing that goes through my mind is that i didnt know that you could be smaller than an A-cup


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## Scott M (Jun 11, 2006)

The high collar on this dress and the lack of makeup make this skinny girl look like she's about ten years old. That's sick, but the rest are just unattractive.


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## ThatFatGirl (Jun 11, 2006)

I'm surprised a few people think the woman in the first photo looks naturally thin. I don't think it is natural for anyone's pelvic bones to be so clearly visible and she has virtually no fat on her arms. It's an incredibly dynamic pose and great photo, but if this model was simply standing against the wall, her uncomfortable thinness would be more evident. 

I think few women in the fashion industry are "naturally" this thin.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 11, 2006)

Her arms are a little scrawny, but being double-jointed, I gotta tell you, no matter what my weight, my pelvic bones are visible when I bend over backwards.


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## EtobicokeFA (Jun 11, 2006)

All the women in these photos look unnatural and unsettling!


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## gangstadawg (Jun 11, 2006)

gangstadawg said:


> well i would dare go out or even *DO* paris hilton. unless im just for her money. i would do that to any bbw but i would gold dig her.


 err meant to say wouldnt


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## Jes (Jun 11, 2006)

mossystate said:


> Gee, and here I am sitting here thinking this has more to do with things like...are these women killing themselves to fit some ideal in the fashion world...not whether any man finds them attractive.
> 
> I guess I do not see a whole lot of good in bashing these women.


Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

Thanks for posting this so cogently, Mossy.


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## Jes (Jun 11, 2006)

fatlane said:


> Truth be told, I'd rather see 'em fat. Then again, I don't buy women's clothing.



LIES.


pants.


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## MickRidem (Jun 11, 2006)

Coming from someone who DID look like that, I can tell you first hand that they are *NOT* healthy. The human body does not function properly when it's starving. I know of some women who are just naturally thin or tiny and healthy, and they don't look bony like that, they look more... athletic-ish, and that looks really good on them and they're happy.


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## fatlane (Jun 11, 2006)

Jes said:


> LIES.
> 
> 
> pants.



OK, you called me on that. 

I admit it. I'm just making this all up. I'm really into women with full body casts, and every time someone mentions "fat", I change it to read, "full body cast" and get an amazing turn-on.


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## CFHDIMEBAG36 (Jun 11, 2006)

Man those chicks are very unattractive in my eyes. Every time I see one of them (especially the Olsen twins) I just want to sit them down in a chair, strap them in and feed them. Sick, I tell you, SICK! lol When I see a woman like that bend over and you can see their spine, its fucking creepy and makes me want to throw up. Sorry for being so descriptive ha, but thats just me.


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## CurvaceousBBWLover (Jun 12, 2006)

They need to be fed. They look like they are starving. Once I gave them some of my cooking they would put on some weight and look like normal women.




CFHDIMEBAG36 said:


> Man those chicks are very unattractive in my eyes. Every time I see one of them (especially the Olsen twins) I just want to sit them down in a chair, strap them in and feed them. Sick, I tell you, SICK! lol When I see a woman like that bend over and you can see their spine, its fucking creepy and makes me want to throw up. Sorry for being so descriptive ha, but thats just me.


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## wtchmel (Jun 12, 2006)

Honestly, my first thought/feeling is that "steph" is a troll, but considering no one else picked up on this 'vibe', i may be wrong.
The pics look like prisoner of war camp pics that i saw in a time life book as a child,very shocking and graphic to see. Although, we all know that they're suffering from a disease,either anorexia or bulimia.


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## mossystate (Jun 12, 2006)

wtchmel said:


> Honestly, my first thought/feeling is that "steph" is a troll, but considering no one else picked up on this 'vibe', i may be wrong.
> I picked up on it...but decided to address the pictures..not the poster.


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## comngetmeFA (Jun 12, 2006)

CFHDIMEBAG36 said:


> *When I see a woman like that bend over and you can see their spine, its fucking creepy* and makes me want to throw up. Sorry for being so descriptive ha, but thats just me.




Not to be mean, but I AGREE! That has always freaked me out! On both men and women. I know with many thin people it is natural and can't be helped but just seeing the little spinal bumps pop up when they bend over is ......eewwww! I always thinkl of someone suddenly ripping it out or something...i Know it's weird...but I can't help it. And If i was skinny, the same thing would be seen in me 

But it always reminds me of something out of an H.R. Geiger (the guy who created aliens and species) art piece!


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## Jes (Jun 12, 2006)

eh, i just think they look like women. mostly fashion models, but there are non models who look like that too. I'm not so bothered by thin women, I guess, mostly because whenever I hear words and concepts applied to them by some people, I imagine those same things applied to fat women, and...me no likey.


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## comngetmeFA (Jun 12, 2006)

I know that's true, that's why I said earlier there are men who like extremely thin women, just like there are men who like extremely fat women...it's a whole vice versa thing, and you're def. right, the same things people say about them can be said about us fatties ...people are entitled to 'like who they like' :smitten:


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## Jes (Jun 12, 2006)

i don't have adversarial feelings toward those women. I don't dislike them. I dislike all of _you_ women, because you're bogartin' my men!!


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## RyanFA (Jun 12, 2006)

my dad finds these women attractive, which makes me wonder why I like bigger women.


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## xlflava (Jun 12, 2006)

I agree with those that didnt judge. we are obviously here for a reason and thats acceptance. Some men and women find that attractive. To each their own. I'm comfortable with me as I am, and surround myself with people who are comfortable with me as I am. But will admit I was always as accepting of myself as I am now.


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## Pearlover90000 (Jun 12, 2006)

I think it's disturbing----mostly the latter photos.

The thing that is really disconcerting, is the fact that many BBWs in here thought that the first Pic was "HOT" and a few even said that they wished they looked like her.

I will admit, the first photo is sexy, but I would agree that if she stood up she would be horribly skinny, and even though she might look sexy in that pose, and even "I" think that it's lovely, I do know that myself and the FA's in this room would not have sex with her, and some would not even be physically able to.

PL


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## Jes (Jun 12, 2006)

Part of the issue, too, as someone has already said, is that women shouldn't be defined by who will sleep with them. It's not always about that.


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## vlrga (Jun 12, 2006)

This gave me a thought: What if there's a board/forum out there somewhere that's exactly like this one, except at the other extreme?

We discuss how big of a deal can be made out of someone being a little fatter than the "ideal". Couldn't it be said that people also talk about people being "too thin"?

FAs (and FFAs) come here and worry about liking something that is supposedly "unhealthy". Wouldn't it be the same for people who like them on the skinny side?

Doctors can blame problems on fat and ask a patient to lose weight when other solutions are needed. The same thing happens to people who might be told to gain weight.

Some people here like to gain weight and reach a level that's very large. Not a mainstream desire, but neither would be a person wanting to reach a level that's very low. They both have their risks, but the large have a community here that encourages reaching their desires in the safest way possible, so why couldn't/shouldn't a person losing weight do it in a way that plays it safe?

If a person eats more than what's "normal", they can get accused of having an overeating disorder. If a person eats less than the "norm", they also can get accused of having an eating disorder.

*We're probably more the same than we are different.*


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## grey1969 (Jun 12, 2006)

FreeThinker said:


> In answer to the question: I do not find this type of body attractive, and am disturbed at the realization that I, too, am shallow enough to feel this way.



Nobody should be disturbed that he finds a certain body type unattractive, unless he worships at the alter of Political Correctness. What a load of BS.

I am an FA and I find those extremely skinny women very very unattractive. Other than that, I only pity them for being hapless pawns in this unfortunate standard of female beauty sham that has been perpetrated by the fashion and entertainment industries.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 12, 2006)

That's fine to find them unattractive. However, not all mainstream models are "hapless pawns." I dated a woman who was extremely intelligent, and who was very aware her *NATURAL* body was beautiful and desirable to the masses at 6' and 120 lbs. Sure, she was acting to fit in the mainstream, for her job. Like a singer who got voice training, she'd sometimes go on a diet to get rid of a scant bit of belly fat or something, but it didn't mean she was completely unaware and a victim. That's just degrading to women to assume if they do fit into the mainstream, they're raving dumbasses.

Edited to say she also dated me and seemed to LOVE my non-conventional curves.


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## grey1969 (Jun 12, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> That's fine to find them unattractive. However, not all mainstream models are "hapless pawns." I dated a woman who was extremely intelligent, and who was very aware her *NATURAL* body was beautiful and desirable to the masses at 6' and 120 lbs. Sure, she was acting to fit in the mainstream, for her job. Like a singer who got voice training, she'd sometimes go on a diet to get rid of a scant bit of belly fat or something, but it didn't mean she was completely unaware and a victim. *That's just degrading to women to assume if they do fit into the mainstream, they're raving dumbasses.*
> Edited to say she also dated me and seemed to LOVE my non-conventional curves.



Starving oneself is dumb unless of course one is getting paid big bucks for it like some of those models are. Of course sacrificing your health for money isn't necessarily a smart tradeoff.


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## CurvaceousBBWLover (Jun 12, 2006)

So true. I could not have said this better myself.



comngetmeFA said:


> I know that's true, that's why I said earlier there are men who like extremely thin women, just like there are men who like extremely fat women...it's a whole vice versa thing, and you're def. right, the same things people say about them can be said about us fatties ...people are entitled to 'like who they like' :smitten:


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## xlflava (Jun 12, 2006)

all the pics were of people in the entertainment industry. I am aware that many women, and men for that matter model themselves after that, but if you look in the real world, the average person doesn't look like that. Many are thin, but I think the tide is turning a bit, with the exception of the entertainment world. My 20 yr old daughter feels the same way. We both, altho I'm larger, are thick and have not a problem in the world finding men who find us attractive but also value us for our intelligence. Its just as much a part of the package. Most of the men and women I know prefer meat on their bones, prefer thickness and voluptiousness, as well as big beautiful women. Once I figured that out, the world was mine, and nobody could tell me different!


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## eightyseven (Jun 12, 2006)

I feel like the issue here is that many posts have been negatively directed toward the women themselves. You're blaming them for looking as they do (starving themselves, dieting, being too influenced) as popular society blames large people for looking as they do (lazy, sedentary, overeating). There's so much more to consider though. Just look at the thread about "Why do you think you're fat?" The answers were SO much more than "I eat a whole bunch." Our bodies and our mindsets are complicated and these women have similar circumstances just at a different extreme. I'm not saying I'm not irked by the sight of these women... but they are WOMEN and should be treated and respected as such. Thank you.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 13, 2006)

grey1969 said:


> Starving oneself is dumb unless of course one is getting paid big bucks for it like some of those models are. Of course sacrificing your health for money isn't necessarily a smart tradeoff.



We do it all the time though. Police officers often work rotating shifts. Americans work many more hours than their European counterparts. I make better money than some of my coworkers because I work a more stressful job. Would it be smarter to take a minimum wage job?

And whether or not we like it: Some people are fatter. Some people are thinner. It doesn't mean they're starving or unhealthy. My SIL has the natural build of Kate Moss. She's 5' 7", and 110-115 lbs. with mosquito bite boobs. She doesn't starve herself. Saying all very small or thin people are unhealthy makes no more sense than saying all very fat people are unhealthy. It's just not true.


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## Mr_Longhair (Jun 13, 2006)

I think the first pic is very artistic...
the others are totally sick.especially if they are to be rolemodels of how girls should look.. i dont think there are many guys who want their girlfriend to be that skinny.....
however (this is my opinion and my thought up explanation of the bony model problem in the fashion industry, and I´ll probably get a lot of s**t for it)

the fashion industry is run by not so "manly" males out of paris, whom most have a sexual preference for small boys, and therefore they choose the genderless skinny models that very much look like small boys...
Its sick and i hate it...
I could say more but....
Magnus


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## Jes (Jun 13, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> That's fine to find them unattractive. However, not all mainstream models are "hapless pawns." I dated a woman who was extremely intelligent, and who was very aware her *NATURAL* body was beautiful and desirable to the masses at 6' and 120 lbs.


Thx. Exactly. Denying a woman's agency is never a good thing. 
ps? pls post pix.


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## grey1969 (Jun 13, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> We do it all the time though. Police officers often work rotating shifts. Americans work many more hours than their European counterparts. I make better money than some of my coworkers because I work a more stressful job. Would it be smarter to take a minimum wage job?
> 
> And whether or not we like it: Some people are fatter. Some people are thinner. It doesn't mean they're starving or unhealthy. My SIL has the natural build of Kate Moss. She's 5' 7", and 110-115 lbs. with mosquito bite boobs. She doesn't starve herself. Saying all very small or thin people are unhealthy makes no more sense than saying all very fat people are unhealthy. It's just not true.



Your attempted analogies are ridiculous. People who work rotating shifts can still sleep the requisite number of hours to stay healthy. Everyone has stress in their life. Working a 'less stressful' job which pays less leads to more stress over trying to make ends meat. 

There is no rational argument that can be made for depriving one's body of adequate nutrition in order to achieve an unnaturally thin body. And from what has been disclosed of the modelling industry, that is exactly what the large majority of models do - they consume much fewer calories than would be considered healthy and normal by dieticians. Sure there will always be a small handful of people who are exceptionally underweight even when eating normally, but in general this is not the case with models and other entertainment industry women.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 13, 2006)

grey1969 said:


> Your attempted analogies are ridiculous. People who work rotating shifts can still sleep the requisite number of hours to stay healthy. Everyone has stress in their life. Working a 'less stressful' job which pays less leads to more stress over trying to make ends meat.
> 
> There is no rational argument that can be made for depriving one's body of adequate nutrition in order to achieve an unnaturally thin body. And from what has been disclosed of the modelling industry, that is exactly what the large majority of models do - they consume much fewer calories than would be considered healthy and normal by dieticians. Sure there will always be a small handful of people who are exceptionally underweight even when eating normally, but in general this is not the case with models and other entertainment industry women.



Look: SOME of the men and women have eating disorders and are unnaturally thin. Dieticians agree that it's perfectly acceptable for a woman to eat a 1200 calorie a day diet (no less). That's VERY little food though. Models are a minority, and when you pair a lot of aerobic exercise with a naturally thin body, you'll get some hellaciously thin body. 

More importantly, the days of heroin chic have passed us. Today's models are fleshier than they were ten years ago. Your average female fashion model is 5' 10" and 117 lbs. Thin? Yeah. Walking skeleton? No.

You're doing the exact same thing anti-fat people are doing. You're saying that a certain body type must plainly be unhealthy because it looks gross to you. You don't have to find them appealing! 

BTW, the body isn't naturally geared to moving its sleeping around, so it's VERY rare someone gets the proper amount of sleep.


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## bigsexy920 (Jun 13, 2006)

When I look at those pictures I think, Ice Cream for everyone and make it a double scoop. :eat2:


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 13, 2006)

Ice cream sounds awesome. We get it too, right?


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## bigsexy920 (Jun 13, 2006)

Sure, when I say eveyone I mean everyone. I'll have the kitchen set up the Sundae bar with all the fixings.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 13, 2006)

Nothing better than a sundae with crushed cookies!


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## bigsexy920 (Jun 13, 2006)

Yeah I love cookies in ice cream.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 13, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Nothing better than a sundae with crushed cookies!



NO, no NO!! Did that fancy college learnin' teach you NOTHIN'??

The best ever treat is mashing heavily frosted birthday cake into a big bowl of ice cream. Best flavor combo: Vanilla ice cream, chocolate fudge cake. Heaven in a dish. :eat1:


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 13, 2006)

You've never had Birthday Cake Ice Cream from Mayfield's. It's cake-flavored ice cream with these butterchips... With a slab of golden cake thrown in... OMG!

Edit: Fancy college learnin' taught me four things:

1) Don't buy LSD on the east coast if there's not a tiny picture of Felix the Cat on it.

2) Vodka and spaghetti never mix well.

3) Three years of English is great if you wish to learn how to annoy people. 12+ hours of semiotics just lets you know how crazy and/or limited you are.

4) Always make sure half of everything you tell those under you is a lie. It keeps 'em on their toes.


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## exile in thighville (Jun 13, 2006)

~~Steph~~ said:


> *What do you think of this look??
> I am new here and I am just wondering what peoples opinions are..
> Thanks very much.. :kiss2: *
> 
> ...



they don't do anything for me but if that's the way they want to look, i wouldn't to judge them anymore than i'd want them to judge my fat girlfriend. how did you think we'd respond? you're posting skinny chicks on a fattie board.


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## BrooklynPaul (Jun 13, 2006)

wow that is terrible..they all look like straight up junkies......sad world we live in sometimes.............i NEED MY soft pillows..for my lovely lady friends that is for Sure..


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## mossystate (Jun 13, 2006)

grey1969 said:


> There is no rational argument that can be made for depriving one's body of adequate nutrition
> 
> Adequate...hmmmm..so...not 'too' much...not 'too' little.....
> 
> ...


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## eightyseven (Jun 13, 2006)

mossystate said:


> grey1969 said:
> 
> 
> > There is no rational argument that can be made for depriving one's body of adequate nutrition
> ...


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## RVNBBQ (Jun 13, 2006)

personally i don't find women this skinny attractive. my preferences are that women have a little belly on them. i am equally not attracted to really heavy women(over 275lbs). i guess i'm a middle of the road kinda guy.


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## bigsexy920 (Jun 13, 2006)

I have another opinion on at least one of the girls. I think the first girl is very bendy.


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## grey1969 (Jun 13, 2006)

mossystate said:


> grey1969 said:
> 
> 
> > There is no rational argument that can be made for depriving one's body of adequate nutrition
> ...


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## grey1969 (Jun 13, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Dieticians agree that it's perfectly acceptable for a woman to eat a 1200 calorie a day diet (no less). That's VERY little food though. Models are a minority, and when you pair a lot of aerobic exercise with a naturally thin body, you'll get some hellaciously thin body.
> 
> More importantly, the days of heroin chic have passed us. Today's models are fleshier than they were ten years ago. Your average female fashion model is 5' 10" and 117 lbs. Thin? Yeah. Walking skeleton? No.
> 
> ...



If one were to combine a minimum caloric intake of 1200 calories with intense workout, the body is then being deprived of adequate 'fuel' to maintain proper health. This can lead to serious irreparable damage to the vital organs.

If the average model is 5'10' and 117 lbs then half of the models would be considered in an anorexic weight range by medical science. 

Here is why: The low end of the normal body mass index (BMI) range is 20. For someone of that height, this corresponds to a weight of about 139 pounds. An anorexic body weight is defined as being 85% or less of the low end of the normal range and, in this case, is 139 x 0.85 = 118 pounds

So your dear friend who is 6' and 120 pounds has a body weight which is defined by the medical profession (not me) as being dangerously low. 

I would have thought that you, of all people, wouldn't have tried to defend such a ridiculous position.


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## mossystate (Jun 13, 2006)

grey1969 said:


> mossystate said:
> 
> 
> > But we're always being told that fat people don't eat any more than everyone else.
> ...


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## ripley (Jun 13, 2006)

One thing that strikes me, (which is neither here nor there, really) is that a few people here thought the first woman was somehow different than the others...she is, only because she is _posed_. The others are in candid shots, not shots taken as part of an advertising campaign by a high-end fashion house. Perhaps she is two or three pounds heavier than the other examples; but there is no real difference. She is there to create a feeling in women that if they tried a little bit harder (and bought a lot of products) they could be as thin, desirable, and high-end as the model. That feeling of not being good enough, and that if we just _tried_ a little harder sucks in a LOT of women. It doesn't surprise me that many get a satisfying feeling of success and elitism when they can attain that goal of being very thin.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 13, 2006)

grey1969 said:


> If one were to combine a minimum caloric intake of 1200 calories with intense workout, the body is then being deprived of adequate 'fuel' to maintain proper health. This can lead to serious irreparable damage to the vital organs.
> 
> If the average model is 5'10' and 117 lbs then half of the models would be considered in an anorexic weight range by medical science.
> 
> ...



Actually, my ex-girlfriend was a healthy individual. (I don't know why it so intensely bothers you that I dated a woman.) 

And actually, formerly being treated for an eating disorder, I can tell you the dangerously underweight BMI is 17.5-18.5. A BMI can't be "anorexic." Only a person can, and more and more medical and psychiatric professionals agree anorexia is NOT a weight. Please don't lecture me about BMI's and anorexia. You'll get trumped every time.

Models are a minority in America. Again, you're pulling the SAME crap anti-fat people do. People love saying fat people have higher blood pressure, etc., by looking only at extreme cases.


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## Les Toil (Jun 14, 2006)

Yeh, those bodies look pretty horrific to me and I, too, have more empathy than distain for them. Although they all probably earn in areas of 40 grand a month so I'm not shedding TOO many tears for them.

Also, I can imagine as we sit aghast at those images of human skeletons there's tons of message boards where people have posted images of 500lb-600lb women and are equally as aghast.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 14, 2006)

It's an extreme. However, I don't think if these women recognize that they're playing a game (as my ex did), that it's all that harmful. Would I like to see a more diverse body representation in the media? Of course.


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## ~~Steph~~ (Jun 15, 2006)

wtchmel said:


> *Honestly, my first thought/feeling is that "steph" is a troll, *but considering no one else picked up on this 'vibe', i may be wrong.
> The pics look like prisoner of war camp pics that i saw in a time life book as a child,very shocking and graphic to see. Although, we all know that they're suffering from a disease,either anorexia or bulimia.


*
Wtf..?? How can you honestly make a comment like that.. when you have absolutely no idea who I am, you dont know anything about me. So dont just suggest that im a 'troll' thats just not fair.

ANYWAY, I just read this whole thread and Im not going to sit here writing personal replies even though I want to. 

First of all, the first and second picture are of the exact same girl, her name is Vlada. She may look more normal in the first pic, but you are comparing a completely airbrushed picture of her for an advertisement (which they make her look healthier in) to a runway pic.  

Secondly, I dont see the problem in me posting this thread, you are not obliged to reply or have an opinion so FUCK everyone just calm down  

For all of the people who say they wouldnt 'judge' them, Im not asking you to. :doh: 

To vlrga: Your comment: This gave me a thought: What if there's a board/forum out there somewhere that's exactly like this one, except at the other extreme?
There are PLENTY of boards/forums around like this ^

Grey1969: Starving oneself is dumb unless of course one is getting paid big bucks for it like some of those models are. Of course sacrificing your health for money isn't necessarily a smart tradeoff.

Wtf?? starving yourself is DUMB?? People who starve themselves and suffer from an eating disorder are not DUMB. Eating disorders are psychological disorders. Your comment is offensive and rude. Being paid big bucks to starve yourself is NOT justifiable is it?

Jesus I thought this forum was supportive and a good environment for once. I was obviously wrong, some people are just so bitchy for Gods sake. 
To all people who answered my thread honestly and in a moral way, thank-you your opinions enlightened me. *


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## ~~Steph~~ (Jun 15, 2006)

*Pictures of Vlada to clarify:*





















*=*





*Yes, all the same person. There goes the 'healthy' theory   *


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## SamanthaNY (Jun 15, 2006)

this should be fun


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## ~~Steph~~ (Jun 15, 2006)

*Whatever ^^ seriously im over it.. if people want to be all immature and jump on me then fuck them. Im trying to make my point about something I feel strongly about. Im glad you can sit back and watch this and consider it fun. That just shows how much of a lovely person you are. Im not being rude whatsoever Im standing up for myself with facts and KNOWLEGE about this issue, so if its funny/fun for you then your immature.*


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## Jes (Jun 15, 2006)

~~Steph~~ said:


> *Pictures of Vlada to clarify:*
> 
> 
> *Yes, all the same person. There goes the 'healthy' theory   *​



Girlfriend's got some loooong legs, don't she?​


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 15, 2006)

~~Steph~~ said:


> *Pictures of Vlada to clarify:*
> 
> *Yes, all the same person. There goes the 'healthy' theory   *​




Honey, people can be more or less healthy at different periods. I've weighed under 100 and over 150. I've been hale and hearty and I've been massively sick. Some of those pictures (most of 'em) are ick. The D&G photo is much healthier and prettier.​


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## ~~Steph~~ (Jun 15, 2006)

*Im not doubting that people can go through stages, even if she gained 5kg in that pic though MAX, her mindset may very well be WORSE. We dont know that. We are looking at a famous model here, Dolce and Gabanna are obviously not going to want skeletons for their ad's, they are edited. *


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 15, 2006)

You know photoshopping works both days, and usually, they make 'em thinner.

There's a French dude who just does it for fun.

Edit: Here's my point: If you run around going, "Thin people are unhealthy! Thin people are unhealthy!" you're basically doing what the rest of the world does to fat people. MYOB, people!


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## ~~Steph~~ (Jun 15, 2006)

*Yes I know, but if the designer wants to go for a sexier look, he/she is NOT going to want bones sticking out everywhere, ribs, hipbones protruding would not give this photo the same effect and sell the product. *


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 15, 2006)

Okay, so you're saying society promotes eating disorders but then airbrushes out the results because they don't like them?


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## ~~Steph~~ (Jun 15, 2006)

*Society does promote Ed's yes.
Most images are photoshopped in order to make the model look thinner yes I aggree. 
However, I beleive that in THIS one photo this is not the case. Anyway thats not my main point whether or not its edited.*


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 15, 2006)

I seriously doubt D&G is going against the societal norm and is that daring. What's your point? I agree there should be a more diverse body of people in the fashion/entertainment industry, but I don't think judging thin women does anything for that.


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## ~~Steph~~ (Jun 15, 2006)

*Since when was it daring to edit out hipbones and ribcages? There not making them look fat.. just less like corpses!! Im not going over my point again.. I just typed a good essay on the last page. Im not trying to put these women down in any way. I have been both emaciated and overweight myself so I am just wondering what peoples opinions are on this type of board about it. Its a simple question.. *


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 15, 2006)

I believe you implied it was daring and our friends Ana, Ed, and Mia were the norm in the "biz."

We gave you our opinions. You didn't like them. Then you had a tail tizzy.


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## bigsexy920 (Jun 15, 2006)

There is that bendy girl again.


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## Jes (Jun 15, 2006)

I think, if one asks for opinions, one gets opinions. Why the anger, America? Why? If we can't see scantily-clad runway models, well then, the terrorists have already won. (I'm just going to try to collapse all of my responses and jokes into one from now on. Less typing)

You know what I need to bring back? 

What about Prom, Blaine? WHAT ABOUT PROM?! You'll be seeing a lot of it in the near future.


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## love dubh (Jun 15, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> You know photoshopping works both days, and usually, they make 'em thinner.
> 
> There's a French dude who just does it for fun.
> 
> Edit: Here's my point: If you run around going, "Thin people are unhealthy! Thin people are unhealthy!" you're basically doing what the rest of the world does to fat people. MYOB, people!



Here's another website for an eye-full of photoshopping.

Glenn Feron

Roll your cursor over Beyonce and watch all her "flaws" disappear!


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 15, 2006)

Man, it would piss the old Nedster off. All the fluffy elbows are edited out.


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## grey1969 (Jun 15, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Actually, my ex-girlfriend was a healthy individual. (I don't know why it so intensely bothers you that I dated a woman.)
> 
> And actually, formerly being treated for an eating disorder, I can tell you the dangerously underweight BMI is 17.5-18.5. A BMI can't be "anorexic." Only a person can, and more and more medical and psychiatric professionals agree anorexia is NOT a weight. Please don't lecture me about BMI's and anorexia. You'll get trumped every time.
> 
> Models are a minority in America. Again, you're pulling the SAME crap anti-fat people do. People love saying fat people have higher blood pressure, etc., by looking only at extreme cases.



I don't have a problem with homosexuals in general, but I find you, as an individual, to be disrespectful and obnoxious. 

As I was saying, the established guideline for diagnosing anorexia nervosa includes a body weight that is less than 85% of the lower end of the 'normal range'. This correlates with a BMI in the range of 17.
Below are two links with details on this:

http://www.mentalhealthchannel.net/eatingdisorders/anorexia/anorexia.shtml

http://www.bsu.edu/web/sasousley/anorexia.htm


On the surface, it seems equally unfair to characterize people that are well below or well above the medically-accepted normal weight range as unhealthy, simply based on weight. However, this is really not a valid comparison. To maintain the dangerously low weight that results in a BMI of 17, the vast majority of people will need to maintain a calorie input and energy expenditure balance that is not sustainable for long term health. Serious damage to the vital organs, particularly the heart, will often result after years of such abuse to the body. On the other hand it is totally possible to be fit and fat by maintaining a healthy diet and obtaining regular exercise.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 15, 2006)

grey1969 said:


> I don't have a problem with homosexuals in general, but I find you, as an individual, to be disrespectful and obnoxious.



I'm sure that she's very hurt by your opinion  

I had a female friend in college who was painfully, unhappily thin. She probably weighed somewhere in the range of 80-90 lbs and was a few inches shorter than me (I'm 5'6"). She felt very self-conscious about her razor-thin body and how her bones showed through. She could probably wear a girl's size 10-12, but she bought her clothing several sizes too big because she (mistakenly) thought that it would camoflauge her thin body. 

I currently have a male friend who is 6'0" tall and, on a good day, weighs 135. He has a very hard time getting his weight above 130. He drinks protein shakes, eats high fat/high calorie meals, and nothing seems to help. He is, if anything, MORE horrified & self-conscious about his weight than my college friend was. He has a very hard time getting dates. He thinks that it is because he is so thin. I'm sure that he misses some opportunities because of that, but mostly, it is probably his extreme self-consciousness that is the turn-off.

Their lives were/are oddly parallel to my own as a fat woman. People made/make assumptions about their health & their eating habits. They've both encountered rude, obnoxious strangers who tell them to eat a sandwich or accuse them of anorexia. They hate their bodies. Their lives are ruled by what they eat (in their case, trying to eat more than their bodies want, whereas I was obsessed with eating less). People do make assumptions about their mental health -- just as you have above (assuming that they are anorexic). People make assumptions about fat bodies too -- that we are lazy, or gluttonous, and do nothing but lie around all day eating bon-bons and watching TV. I can't imagine that it hurts my thin friends any less than it did me. 

Some people do have extremely efficient metabolisms, and they are naturally very thin, and they are still quite healthy. In any event, anorexia is not a weight. It is a disorder of eating, in the loosest of terms.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 15, 2006)

TraciJo67 said:


> I'm sure that she's very hurt by your opinion
> ...
> 
> In any event, anorexia is not a weight. It is a disorder of eating, in the loosest of terms.



I so cried all night.

I'm actually more hurt that you're equally as smart. Now I don't get to show off.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 15, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> I so cried all night.
> 
> I'm actually more hurt that you're equally as smart. Now I don't get to show off.



If I truly *were* equally as smart, I would have posted exactly as you cut 'n pasted .... that is, said the same thing, but in 20 words instead of 2000


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 15, 2006)

grey1969 said:


> I don't have a problem with homosexuals in general, but I find you, as an individual, to be disrespectful and obnoxious.
> 
> As I was saying, the established guideline for diagnosing anorexia nervosa includes a body weight that is less than 85% of the lower end of the 'normal range'. This correlates with a BMI in the range of 17.
> Below are two links with details on this:
> ...



Yeah, you just have a problem acknowledging homos in relationships. 

You were saying it was a BMI of like 20 three posts ago. I was saying it was 17.5.

It's possible to damage the crap out of your body if you're 300 lbs. and anorexic. (Actually, I suspect that's why so many fat people have health problems.) Look: It's possible to be thin and maintain a healthy diet. I KNOW Traci just pointed it out, but she's a glory hog and I'm sick of her. 

Honestly, you don't have a clue about eating disorders and don't seem interested in learning. I'd suggest you go talk to an ED specialist, but you're probably not willing to listen. 

For most anorexics, it takes YEARS to reach an emaciated weight. Most never get there. Most remain fat or "normal."

Justifying sexual preference by claiming someone is anorexic is just mean-spirited. That's exactly what fat bashers do. Surely you can see that? Saying someone has an eating disorder is equally as shitty as calling them a big fat pig.

Edit: Just wanted to say bulimia does more heart damage, and most bulimics are not underweight. Look it up.


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## ~~Steph~~ (Jun 16, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Yeah, you just have a problem acknowledging homos in relationships.
> 
> You were saying it was a BMI of like 20 three posts ago. I was saying it was 17.5.
> 
> ...



*It sounds like you need to do some research. Dont start telling other people they are informed when you are clearly the least informed of the lot.  *


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## MisticalMisty (Jun 16, 2006)

~~Steph~~ said:


> Jesus I thought this forum was supportive and a good environment for once. I was obviously wrong, some people are just so bitchy for Gods sake.
> To all people who answered my thread honestly and in a moral way, thank-you your opinions enlightened me.


It is..but what are we supposed to be supporting exactly? You're obsession with this one particular model? Do you want to loose down to her size? Do you want someone else to be that size? You posted pics and asked for opinions and that's what you got. If you don't like them..don't start a thread asking for them.

I still don't really get the point of the thread? Was it to evoke pity? envy? confusion?


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## MisticalMisty (Jun 16, 2006)

~~Steph~~ said:


> *It sounds like you need to do some research. Dont start telling other people they are informed when you are clearly the least informed of the lot.  *


Well since she's admitted here that she has suffered from an eating disorder in the past.. she's probably far more of an expert than you will ever be.

You have a lot of nerve starting this thread, getting pissed when opinions are posted and then attacking a fellow poster.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 16, 2006)

Let's see here, Steph: I spent about six months of my life hospitalized for anorexia. No, I don't have a clue. It's VERY important to me to clarify that it ain't EDNOS if you just happen to be fat and have anorexic behaviors. And you know what, if you wish, you can talk to the Raider Center about this. (I'd also give you some individual psychologist/psychiatrist names if you want.) And it's terrible to call someone anorexic because it's just as bad as saying they have some other mental illness. It's like calling someone crazy. It's RUDE.

You're referring to APA standards from the 1990s concerning anorexia, BTW. 

If we listened to nonsense bullshit like all anorexics must be under 17.5 for their BMI, we'd have even more dead people from this disease. Hell, probably a lot of people on this board would be dead.

Look: If you don't like skinny people, fine. But don't come in here spouting nonsense you got from your Gen. Psy. class and "pro ana" sites. You've got no clue.

This is a fat acceptance site. Not a site for you to spread hate on. End of story.


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## weirdo (Jun 17, 2006)

all I got to say is that those young women look like they need to eat a sandwich or two. I don't find extremely thin women to be romotely attractive. But that is just my opinion.


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## ~~Steph~~ (Jun 18, 2006)

MisticalMisty said:


> Well since she's admitted here that she has suffered from an eating disorder in the past..* she's probably far more of an expert than you will ever be.*
> 
> How about you ASK me if Ive ever had an ed before, before you assume. And to answer your question, yes Ive had Anorexia, Bulimia, Coe and ednos in my life.. and was NOT diagnosed as anorexic at one stage because my bmi was in the healthy range.
> 
> ...


I am sorry to hear you have also suffered from an ed TheSadien, but I have also had experiences with this.


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## maxoutfa (Jun 18, 2006)

this is so ironic - I just posted something along this line on the main board (in lockstep with the times: a self fulfilling agenda) - the lady in question looks like one of these "refugee camp wannabees".

I'm sorry, but I still maintain that it's not healthy or attractive to have all your bones sticking out of your body. To me it sends a message that the girl is totally self absorbed - maybe that's just a stereotype, and I'm sure that some of these waifs are "really nice people", but I'm sure not wired to find them attractive.


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## TraciJo67 (Jun 18, 2006)

~~Steph~~ said:


> I am sorry to hear you have also suffered from an ed TheSadien, but I have also had experiences with this.




Steph, it is quite impossible for a medical or psychiatric professional to refuse to diagnose you with anoroxia nervosa because your weight was within a healthy BMI range. 

Anorexia is NOT a disease of weight. It is a genuine psychiatric disorder (see the DSM-IV definition of Anorexia Nervosa). It is classified as an eating disorder, and your weight has very little to do with how the disorder is diagnosed -- aside from a visual symptom that you may have an ED. 

See http://www.ehealthmd.com/library/anorexia/ANO_diagnosis.html for how anorexia is diagnosed. Note that weight and weight history is only one aspect of the diagnosis criteria.


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## curvy_zoe (Jun 18, 2006)

I suppose everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I think these women look sick they are so thin. Our bodies are designed to carry some fat. Maybe not to the extent some of us have it, but you are supposed to have some. I feel kinda bad for these girls becasue you know they try and starve themselves to be that way.


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## EtobicokeFA (Jun 19, 2006)

TraciJo67 said:


> Steph, it is quite impossible for a medical or psychiatric professional to refuse to diagnose you with anoroxia nervosa because your weight was within a healthy BMI range.
> 
> Anorexia is NOT a disease of weight. It is a genuine psychiatric disorder (see the DSM-IV definition of Anorexia Nervosa). It is classified as an eating disorder, and your weight has very little to do with how the disorder is diagnosed -- aside from a visual symptom that you may have an ED.
> 
> See http://www.ehealthmd.com/library/anorexia/ANO_diagnosis.html for how anorexia is diagnosed. Note that weight and weight history is only one aspect of the diagnosis criteria.


Keep in mind that while Anorexia is a psychiatric disorder, the fact that you are starving yourself with have negative effects on your body. According to ehealth it does seem that you need to be thin to develop anorexia.

The interesting part of it is the page where they list the "main criteria necessary for the diagnosis of anorexia nervosa" and two of the four main criteria are 
Intense fear of gaining weight or becoming fat
Distorted image of body weight or shape
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't that cover most women on these fad diets?


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 19, 2006)

Eti, starving yourself is dangerous no matter what weight you are. If I weigh 500 lbs. and I fast for a week, it's still hellacious on my organs.

I don't think most people get so worked up over their appearances that they can't leave the house for days on end. Sure, I might think my legs look kind of chunky, but it doesn't leave me with a paralyzing fear that I can't do anything in life because of it. I didn't learn to drive until I was almost 17 because I was worried that whoever was teaching me would be looking at how fat my thighs looked. I weighed a little under 100 lbs. (I didn't say I wasn't crazy!)


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## Stormy (Jun 19, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Eti, starving yourself is dangerous no matter what weight you are. If I weigh 500 lbs. and I fast for a week, it's still hellacious on my organs.


I don't know, TSL, I enjoy your posts, think we have a lot in common and usually agree with most of what you have to say, and I used to be afraid to fast more than a week because I read about scary stuff like the breakdown of heart muscle, but recently I've been researching fasting and many sources claim it's not only pretty safe but there may be many health benefits to it. I think at least that it may be more dangerous to not eat very much, so that your body is continuing to use glucose (from carbs and muscle) for energy, than nothing at all, so it's using ketones (from fat).

http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/goldhamer_fasting.htm

http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/biology/b103/f02/web1/wcarroll.html

http://www.vegsource.com/talk/campbell/messages/9409.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2003-04-28-fasting_x.htm


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 19, 2006)

Interesting, Stormy. I think it's definately good for you in small periods. It's those over three day fasts that are scary.


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## Stormy (Jun 19, 2006)

Why? The body doesn't even fully go into the ketogenic, protein-sparing state until three days of fasting.

From the first link above:


> Many fasts of longer than 100 days have been documented in recent scientific literature, the longest of which was 368 days. At the TrueNorth Health Center in California, we routinely supervise water-only fasts of up to 40 days  and in certain circumstances, even longer.
> 
> In our experience, fasting has never been lethal and is often remarkably helpful. During our 20 years of supervising the care of more than 5,000 patients, fasting has proven to be both safe and effective. It has provided many patients a new lease on life.



I've had only water and vitamins for 21 days, trying for 42, and feel fine, except for slight dizziness when first standing up due to hypotension, but my blood pressure usually runs in the high normal range so I'm not worried about that, and I'm monitoring it and my heart rate, which is also lower, another good thing. And I can't lift 50 pound sacks of animal food as easily as I could before. I could see it being dangerous if I didn't have much body fat to spare, but I do, and also plenty of muscle.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Jun 19, 2006)

I know after two weeks of fasting, I start fainting, hardcore. And that's all I know. 

I suppose if you had a medical professional supervising it, that's great, but I think most people would end up very screwed up.


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## Miss Vickie (Jun 19, 2006)

I'm confused, after reading this thread. 

Steph, what exactly IS your point??? Despite reading your posts carefully, I'm still not understanding it. Why did you post the pictures, and what were you hoping for from us?

My own reaction to the pictures is how sad it is the women feel compelled to destroy their health in order to obtain an unattainable goal. OTOH, there are also lots of women who are naturally (unnaturally) thin, and they get probably a fair amount of crap from well intentioned strangers, like we on the other end of the spectrum do.


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## Jon Blaze (Jun 22, 2006)

Like i've said on a million occasions... I have nothing against thin girls. Some of those girls are sickly, or they don't appeal to me very much due to their persona (*cough* Paris Hilton).

The first few pictures weren't that bad. Paris is ok. I'm neutral on the other pictures.


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## Heidi (Nov 27, 2006)

TraciJo67 said:


> Steph, it is quite impossible for a medical or psychiatric professional to refuse to diagnose you with anoroxia nervosa because your weight was within a healthy BMI range.



While I very much agree with the general sentiment of your post TraciJo (anorexia is certainly a mental illness), I would question the above statement. I know for a fact that some poorly informed and prejudiced medical personell will refuse to accept a diagnosis of anorexia for a patient who is not already emaciated. Maybe if they did, not so many anorexics would actually get to the emaciated stage.

When I was about 14/15 a friend of mine at school suffered from anorexia, and starved herself off and on for almost a year. We had tried taking her to the doctors right back when she first started avoiding food, but at that point she was 8 stone (102lbs) and 5'2". Slim but nothing alarming. By the time the doctors finally started paying attention she was 4 stone 1lbs (57lbs), and had started to grow a downy hair on her arms for warmth etc. After undergoing tests, they discovered severe nutritional deficiencies (duh!) and slight kidney damage. If someone had listened earlier, that kidney damage could, perhaps, perhaps have been prevented.

At the same time, Elaine was, in a way, lucky. I started dieting at age 9, started skipping lunch when I was about 12/13, breakfast when I was 13/14 and every meal possible by the time I was 15. The longest I ever went without food was 15 days, and one summer term I ate something on only 10 days in the 10 week term. The rest of my family are slim, and if I did eat, I only ate what they were - I didn't snack and I didn't binge. Was I thin? Possibly, but if I was I didn't know it, and I never managed to get below 13 stone (182lbs), inspite of all the meal skipping.

I went to see the nutritionist during one of the holidays (generally holidays meant 3 meals a day, otherwise my parents got suspicious) - a very capable individual, who we had heard from other patients was very good. She weighed me (5'5" and 14 stone (196lbs), agreed that I was overweight and asked me to keep a food diary for a week. At the end of that week I arrived with a complete list of everything I had eaten & drunk, which she looked through, asked a few clarifying questions, checked some tables and then told me that my diet was almost perfect. Her diagnosis? I clearly wasn't doing enough exercise and should aim to do more. At no point did she bother to ask what I was doing - at the time I swam probably 8 hours a week, played badminton for at least 3, played I would guess 5-6 hours of tennis, 2 hours of Scottish country dancing, 1 hour of judo, went for walks and cycles with my family and did 15-30 minute jog every morning.

I am in no way asking for pity - that would be utterly pointless. I am simply making the point that even apparently capable and sensible professionals can have their judgement so clouded by prejudice based on appearance that they can fail to diagnose a case of anorexia. I was eventually diagnosed with depression in my final year of school, and it was only when I went for CBT (Cognitive Behavioural Therapy) when I was 20, that my psychiatrist eventually suggested a diagnosis of anorexia.

With regard to the pictures - I can't see them (don't know why - I just get a box with an 'x' in it), and I'm not sure I really want to. I did look at the Glen Feron link, and it saddens me that that sort of touch-up goes on - in my opinion, the majority of those pictures are better before touch-up. The 'after' pictures tend just to look plastic. I have never been interested in judging anyone based on size (or appearance generally). I struggle to lose weight, my partner struggles to gain it - he is 8 stone and 5'10", and gets ridiculously excited if he manages to hold the tiniest bit of fat on his stomach - it never lasts for long, but while it does, he experiences less digestive problems, better skin, he feels less cold and his joints stop hurting.

No matter what somebody's size, they are still a person, and will still have feelings - just because they're not being abused for being a 'fat blob' or whatever doesn't mean they don't have anything to feel self-consious of. Incredibly skinny people may be starving themselves, so may incredibly fat people. Incredibly fat people may be eating masses and doing no exercise, so may incredibly skinny people. Different people's bodies work in different ways and I just wish folk would stop judging others on the shape of their particular body. Yes, there's an argument for saying that someone fat may be lazy and eat too much, but equally that argument may apply to someone thin, and some of the most active people I have known were at least chubby.

I don't really know what point I'm making, but thanks for letting me waffle anyway!


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