# My body, MY choice.



## Weeze (Mar 3, 2010)

I know this has been discussed before, but I feel the need to bring something up. I'm really, really getting tired of people accusing GIRLS that are into feederism of not knowing what they're getting themselves into. I know of a few occasions where people have said extremely hurtful things about me, and friends, regarding our "kinks." It's ridiculous. I know what I'm getting into. I have a very, very obese grandmother and my mother is the same size I am. I see how they live, and I KNOW what I'm doing. There's this... concern... for people like me, from people who have no business voicing concern over me. I'm fine. Whether or not I gain weight, whether or not that gain is on purpose or not, whether or not I find sexual things regarding weight gain is up to ME. 

People keep saying that girls who are into feederism are doing it for reasons OTHER THAN the fact that they're genuinely into it.
"She's harming her body for the sake of her paysite."
"She's only gaining weight because that guy wants her to."

It's just not. true. People throw these, and other excuses out ALL THE TIME and I am so. fucking. sick. of it. People that don't even really KNOW the people they're "voicing concern" about... How can you even BE concerned? I think for a lot of people "voicing concern" means "bashing in a passive aggressive manner"

So just... lay the fuck off. Seriously now.


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## TraciJo67 (Mar 3, 2010)

krismiss said:


> I know this has been discussed before, but I feel the need to bring something up. I'm really, really getting tired of people accusing GIRLS that are into feederism of not knowing what they're getting themselves into. I know of a few occasions where people have said extremely hurtful things about me, and friends, regarding our "kinks." It's ridiculous. I know what I'm getting into. I have a very, very obese grandmother and my mother is the same size I am. I see how they live, and I KNOW what I'm doing. There's this... concern... for people like me, from people who have no business voicing concern over me. I'm fine. Whether or not I gain weight, whether or not that gain is on purpose or not, whether or not I find sexual things regarding weight gain is up to ME.
> 
> People keep saying that girls who are into feederism are doing it for reasons OTHER THAN the fact that they're genuinely into it.
> "She's harming her body for the sake of her paysite."
> ...


 
Where are you seeing this?


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## Totmacher (Mar 3, 2010)

I know I see it on curvage and several sites I frequent where dimensions as a community comes up. It's a little more subtle here on the boards, but you might find it if you look. Now that I think about it - there have certainly been discussions on the weight board where prominent members of the dims community have stated, and I'm paraphrasing here, " feederism is a form of abuse because weight gain is inherently unhealthy and that's that Lalalala I'm not listenning!" 
I agree with Kriss 100% on this. If someone wants to do something you think is inadvisable you're entitled to your opinion, but it's still ultimately that person's decision if it doesn't directly effect you and yours. A fair understanding of the healthcare system and/or the nature of statistics is unfortunately almost essential to making this determination


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## Weeze (Mar 3, 2010)

Do you even have to ask? People post things on various boards, people message things back and forth to other people, *actual conversations* between people... like, in person, messages, hell, I had someone REP me on here a while back telling me she doesn't agree with my "lifestyle"... even after i'd made it clear at that point that I wasn't gaining.

Speaking of rep, how the hell do I not have a 2nd orange can yet? A lot of you mofos that repped me better speak up


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## Weeze (Mar 4, 2010)

P.S. I guess there was some confusion? I'm not asking for rep, I'm asking the 11 of you to actually participate in the thread, k?


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## marlowegarp (Mar 4, 2010)

Not sure if I'm one of the 11, but I got your back.


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## Weeze (Mar 4, 2010)

marlowegarp said:


> Not sure if I'm one of the 11, but I got your back.



actually, timmy, you're number 12 

but that's not the point, PEOPLE, FOCUS ON TOPIC, NOT STUPID REP COMMENT I MADE.


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## thatgirl08 (Mar 4, 2010)

I get you Krissy, people always think they know what's best for you, and chances are they don't. We are faced with all sorts of messages from every direction telling us what we should look like and what we should want to look like and it's so easy to get caught up.. in either direction. You need to look within yourself, strip away all the bullshit from everyone and look at the situation from what you TRULY want for yourself, not what everyone else wants for you. It's so easy to get pushed in a direction by what others think but it's so important to truly understand and follow what you want because it's your body, it's your life, it's your health and only you will have to deal with the consequences. Just ignore the rest, because their opinion doesn't matter in the end.


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## Tau (Mar 5, 2010)

Most people think that women are incapable of wanting to do things, enjoy things or look a certain way just for themselves - its always got to be cos you want to impress a man. Thats why a whole lot of people still say things like: OMG if you're wearing a tiny skirt and tons of make up and slutty hair it is because of the shinywonderful lure of THE PENIS!! ehehehehe! (Disclaimer: Not that there's anything wrong with doing stuff for the penis - the penis rocks ) Many people, even in the fat community, cannot conceive of women who do things - strange and kinky and disturbing things, or who deliberatly look, dress or eat a certain way - for their own gratification and not just for drooling masses. Don't let it bother you. There is always going to be somebody somewhere who is convinced they know you better than you know yourself and that they have to save you from you so tell them to eff off and move on with your life and your kinks, whatever they may be.


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## joswitch (Mar 5, 2010)

krismiss said:


> I know this has been discussed before, but I feel the need to bring something up. I'm really, really getting tired of people accusing GIRLS that are into feederism of not knowing what they're getting themselves into. I know of a few occasions where people have said extremely hurtful things about me, and friends, regarding our "kinks." It's ridiculous. I know what I'm getting into. I have a very, very obese grandmother and my mother is the same size I am. I see how they live, and I KNOW what I'm doing. There's this... concern... for people like me, from people who have no business voicing concern over me. I'm fine. Whether or not I gain weight, whether or not that gain is on purpose or not, whether or not I find sexual things regarding weight gain is up to ME.
> 
> People keep saying that girls who are into feederism are doing it for reasons OTHER THAN the fact that they're genuinely into it.
> "She's harming her body for the sake of her paysite."
> ...



This is the exact opposite of what I thought this thread would be about! Yay! *Applause* Brush off those haterz!


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## Weeze (Mar 5, 2010)

joswitch said:


> This is the exact opposite of what I thought this thread would be about! Yay! *Applause* Brush off those haterz!



It's the erotic weight gain board... did you think I was talking about abortion?


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## joswitch (Mar 5, 2010)

krismiss said:


> It's the erotic weight gain board... did you think I was talking about abortion?



No, I didn't think it was about that...


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## Oldtimer76 (Mar 6, 2010)

Hey KrissMiss,

I totally understand what you want to tell us!
I'm with you in this. I'm also getting sick and tired of people who tell things are 'bad', because they are 'allowed to say it' and are 'concerned'...

_*People that don't even really KNOW the people they're "voicing concern" about... How can you even BE concerned?*_
You are SO right!

I have a friend who is into gaining and she has her own Paysite and is known on Dims. She WAS a feedee and gained alot of weight and people kept telling her it was bad and this and that. She even got on national television to hear that! I believe that her decision to stop gaining and loose weight certainly has to do with all those people... She is a smart and fun girl, though, but other people are acting like crazy:doh:


btw: I couldn't rep you, LOL
.


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## bmann0413 (Mar 10, 2010)

You make an excellent point, Kriss. But remember that some people just don't know when to keep to their own business. There are ALWAYS gonna have those people who are gonna snoop.

Just do what I do. IGNORE them. Or not worry about what they say.


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## Paquito (Mar 10, 2010)

As a variation on the OP's post, I've had similar issues in the gaining/encouraging community. Sure, when you're full of self-confidence and camming with them, it's great: you look good, you're hot, blah blah blah. But then, everyone turns on you once you decide to slow down, or stop. You go from gaining god to a poser, a loser, a faker. I took a 7 month break from gaining last year, and about 75% of the people I talked to immediately cut me off, except to occasionally ask if I "came to my senses." It's not like I lost 80 pounds (I maintained the same weight for the entire period), but since I wasn't portraying their exact fantasy, I became the enemy.

My body, my choice.


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## boots (Mar 15, 2010)

Obviously I agree with this post. I've made this point a dozen times before, and no matter how much I try to stress personal choice, all I get are replies along the lines of "I find it hard to believe that someone could be happy that way" or "anyone who would do that is just desperate." I can try to point out how many women explicitly express a desire to grain crazy amounts of weight because THEY WANT to, but because I'm not a gaining woman myself, it's useless.


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## Russell Williams (Mar 18, 2010)

People are always making decisions that others condemn and often the condemnation is on the grounds that what the person is doing or seeking, even though it is completely legal, is bad for them.

So, let's take an example of something that is bad for persons health and bad for their economic situation. -- giving birth.

Logically it can be argued that no reasonable woman would ever want to have a child. Becoming pregnant can cause all kinds of health issues including death. Unless you do it at home, giving birth is an expensive proposition. And raising children has a very negative effect on a person's bank account.

So, any person who is condemning somebody else making a life choice that may have a negative effect on their health or financial well-being should also be condemning anyone seeking to become pregnant.

If they are loudly announcing that gaining weight is unhealthy and bad for you in general and then telling friends who become pregnant how wonderful that is then they are being quite inconsistent wether they know it or not.

Yours truly,

Russell Williams


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## DISPATCHER1673 (Mar 20, 2010)

Krissmiss, i think its so awsome you are so passionate about it, i agree with you 100 % , i hate it when read what pepole say , the thing i really hate is when pepole say that is so unhealty ...... when they dont even know you ,what buisness is it to them or why do they even care......... good for you sweety .....................:happy:


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## Russ2d (Mar 20, 2010)

krismiss said:


> I know this has been discussed before, but I feel the need to bring something up. I'm really, really getting tired of people accusing GIRLS that are into feederism of not knowing what they're getting themselves into. I know of a few occasions where people have said extremely hurtful things about me, and friends, regarding our "kinks." It's ridiculous. I know what I'm getting into. I have a very, very obese grandmother and my mother is the same size I am. I see how they live, and I KNOW what I'm doing. There's this... concern... for people like me, from people who have no business voicing concern over me. I'm fine. Whether or not I gain weight, whether or not that gain is on purpose or not, whether or not I find sexual things regarding weight gain is up to ME.
> 
> People keep saying that girls who are into feederism are doing it for reasons OTHER THAN the fact that they're genuinely into it.
> "She's harming her body for the sake of her paysite."
> ...





I completely agree... 

and I love it when the preaching is so condescending and childish- "Oh you should really think about this"... "I'm worried about your health"... "Ohhhh ohhhh please please be careful!"

The question I have is if these people really think fat, and the obvious weightgain often associated with it, is so horrible what the hell are they doing here at Dimensions?

Apparently these people have accepted the commercial-media's demand on how to think, and are so very ready to harp on anyone else who doesn't conform- for their own good of course.


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## Weeze (Mar 20, 2010)

I'm pretty sad that except for thatgirl and tau, there haven't been any other girls posting in this thread (well, except traci but that's not the kind of post i mean)

Where are you, ladies? It'd be nice to prove people wrong. Please, please don't let just pictureless FA's respond in agreement.


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## Wagimawr (Mar 21, 2010)

krismiss said:


> Where are you, ladies? It'd be nice to prove people wrong. Please, please don't let just pictureless FA's respond in agreement.


What about FAs with pictures? 

Also, this.


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## joswitch (Mar 21, 2010)

krismiss said:


> I'm pretty sad that except for thatgirl and tau, there haven't been any other girls posting in this thread (well, except traci but that's not the kind of post i mean)
> 
> Where are you, ladies? It'd be nice to prove people wrong. Please, please don't let just pictureless FA's respond in agreement.



Hey! I haz pictures!


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## bmann0413 (Mar 21, 2010)

Heeeeeeeeey, I have pictures!


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## activistfatgirl (Mar 21, 2010)

The only thing that would stop me from voicing my atta girl is the battle-fatigue. 

Pro-feminist, pro-gain, yadda yadda. Be careful, have fun, look for places where fetish is mixing with insecurity, talk to people who don't just say "DO IT", but above all, live your female-embodied oh-so-in-the-drivers seat good times.

Big hugs and shit!


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## MizzSnakeBite (Mar 22, 2010)

Ya know......I might get some flack for this, but I think some people really don't realize how they come across when they're voicing their "concerns." They truly might not be trying to be passive aggressive or anything (while there are quite a few that are very nasty about it). But, you're right, it's your body, your choice to do x, y, z to it. On the flip side, we shouldn't judge people that are wanting to lose weight for whatever reasons they may have. Their body, their choice, and they shouldn't be ostracized for wanting/needing to lose weight.

I think part of it stems from people reaching a certain weight, it disabling them, and they truly do not want you to have to go through that. Not that it's their business, but they might actually be coming from a place of caring. But then when you hear "why gain, you shouldn't gain", etc, etc, etc we can become bitter towards people that actually truly do care. 

Either way, your body, your mind, do what you want to do. 

On the entire gaining vs. losing weight thing, I think we need to all give each other a break. Each body reacts differently to weight, has different issues (whether they be weight related or not), so we shouldn't judge others on how they treat their bodies because of how ours feel at ____lbs. 

Personally, while it does get old, I do try to explain things so that maybe, just maybe they'll see the place where I'm coming from. (and no, I've never told anyone they should gain or lose weight).

Hope this makes some sort of sense. It's been a long day. lol

Edit: When I'm speaking about people voicing their "concerns" and them caring, I'm talking about people you actually know, not some stranger.


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## StarWitness (Mar 22, 2010)

Well, I'm not interested in personally gaining weight, but you did ask for a girl's opinion... of course, I also do not question your right to do with your body as you wish as long as it doesn't harm anyone else... so if I want to add something to the convo, looks like I'll have to make assumptions about what other people are thinking... and I'm a little toasted.

All right.

I realize this most likely isn't the case for everyone who has questioned your choices, but... There are significant negative aspects to being fat, and I think every fat person here has experienced that on some level, and arguably even every FA (if just on a peripheral level). This forum wouldn't exist if that wasn't the case; people wouldn't need a specialized space in which to work through those experiences. I think for people who experience fatness as an unpleasant enough way of being that they feel the need to change that-- which is fine, gain weight if you wanna, lose weight if you wanna-- there is no separating the emotions caused by fatness with the physical state. And that gets projected onto other fat people; the idea of someone pursuing weight gain just seems _wrong_. If I have experienced unhappiness in this state, surely you will too.

I've noticed a similar mindset in myself regarding a different kink... women who pursue extreme levels of submission in their relationships raise my hackles. Now mind you, I keep my opinions to my damn self, I realize they have a right to conduct their personal relationships however they want, and I don't presume to know what's right for them (she added smugly), but my emotional reaction to their choice is . The reason is a simple one, however illogical: I felt very (involuntarily) powerless for a long time in my last relationship, and when I think about another woman actively pursuing a state of being that caused me pain, I equate that person with myself, and feel upset at the thought of being in that state. I can imagine someone with an unhappy experience of being obese going through the same mental process.


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## MizzSnakeBite (Mar 22, 2010)

StarWitness said:


> Well, I'm not interested in personally gaining weight, but you did ask for a girl's opinion... of course, I also do not question your right to do with your body as you wish as long as it doesn't harm anyone else... so if I want to add something to the convo, looks like I'll have to make assumptions about what other people are thinking... and I'm a little toasted.
> 
> All right.
> 
> ...





I <3 you; especially since you're toasted! lol 

You made more sense than me; thank you! :bow: :bow:

Grrrrrrrr.......won't let me give out any more rep.


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## SocialbFly (Mar 22, 2010)

You know, i stay out of the weight gain board, because it is your body your choice, but as someone who weighs what i weigh, i tend to be one of the people who asks "are your eyes open, is my life what you want"?

what people fail to understand, is this is not a comment based on judgment or a belief of a lack of intelligence on your part...this is on me saying i had my big bad blinders on when i was younger and age and the natural progression of weight made me this size...

i ask out of concern...concern for my sisters and yes, when i spoke up i got both flack and support, but that is how it is here lately, and if you want to voice an opinion the popular dont share, then that is the way it is...

i dont judge those who want to gain, i just want you to sit with me, talk with me and say you know what is going to come your way. But dont make the assumptions of what my motives are, or make judgements that i am judging you (the societal YOU, not a specific YOU) when i repeatedly say i am not...i dont judge my friends that drink too much or that smoke to much or that drug too much, but i also talk to them....same with the crazy daredevil friends, guess what i talk to them too...

i think so many people have a knee jerk reaction to this, all they see is "here we go again" not the true words or the motives behind them. 

I had to take a break from dims for a while, because it gets old defending an opinion...i have to listen and be respectful of yours...why is mine ANY different..

i am a nurse, i am a nurse in both critical care for adults and peds...have you ever had to watch someone die merely because they were too fat for a heart transplant....at 16?? guess what, i did...do you think i have strong opinions, when we as fat people can't even DONATE organs....you betcha...

but dont judge me, just cause i have an opinion and it differs from yours...we are adults and supposedly, we can have different opinions and survive...or so i have heard.


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## Ash (Mar 22, 2010)

I've held back from this thread, and I think "battle-fatigue" covers the reasons for that pretty well (thank you AFG). Also, given recent events, I'll probably really regret even getting started on this, but here it is anyway. 

Honestly, I don't begrudge anyone their concerns over gaining. I also don't think it's unreasonable to voice them. I think it generally comes from a place of concern and caring. I don't feel judged by people like SocialbFly because I think she honestly has my well-being in mind in posts like the one above. 

My problem, however, begins and ends with assumptions: that I don't know what I'm doing or what can and will happen as a result of gaining, that I just don't care about any of these consequences, that I can't separate fantasy from reality, that I am doing this for anyone but myself, and on and on and on.

Believe me, I KNOW gaining extreme amounts of weight is unhealthy and potentially dangerous. I'm already really really fat and I know how that limits me. I know that, if I get fatter, the obstacles only get bigger and that, as I age, things that aren't such a struggle now will get harder. I care about my health and my body. I think about it every day. Sometimes I wonder what the hell I'm doing. Sometimes I think that this is all really, really stupid. I think everyone who has an interest in gaining experiences that same struggle, whether it be concerning his or her own body or that of his or her partner (or potential partner). 

The bottom line, though, is that I want to be this fat. I want to get fatter. Whether I choose to do so or not is no one else's business. I said this elsewhere, and it's the best way I can explain myself because it's the only thing I know for certain: I'm doing what I can to be happy, and that's all any of us can do in this life.


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## Russ2d (Mar 22, 2010)

> think so many people have a knee jerk reaction to this, all they see is "here we go again"



That's because 99 times out of 100 it is "here we go again"...

Look, Dimensions, in my mind anyway, is suppose to be an oasis for the fat and the FAs who love them; against all the negative assumptions that has been programed into people for the last 30 years or so (and not out of some kind of caring either but for marketing and money reasons).

The 'concern' message as well as the 'hate' message is EVERYWHERE out there for us to see, absolutely everywhere, so to come to Dimensions and have to hear it YET AGAIN is beyond old and tiring for many.

Fat women and FAs have always existed, but today genes (and personal choice) are ignored and too many assumptions (I saw a fat person who was very sick and now I feel compelled to warn others) are made.

Even though I have been labeled a "picture-less FA" (I need to get a camera- there are pictures of me on the 2009 Dimensions Bash thread) I agree with Kriss, I am sick of it too.


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## Russ2d (Mar 22, 2010)

> The bottom line, though, is that I want to be this fat. I want to get fatter. Whether I choose to do so or not is no one else's business. I said this elsewhere, and it's the best way I can explain myself because it's the only thing I know for certain: I'm doing what I can to be happy, and that's all any of us can do in this life.



Very well said Ashley, this smiley is for you 

I often wonder what people think our lives are for. The message for many seems to be hide away, don't take risks, security over happiness, all of which 'might', that's might, tack on a year or two at the end (and honestly those years aren't very good or soul enriching anyway ) but the experience of their lives won't have been as happy or carry as much meaning as they could have.

I just think too many people waste a whole lot of time AND MONEY trying desperately to be something they're not- all because of what they've been told, and then they set about to recruit others for the same.


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## Fuzzy Necromancer (Mar 23, 2010)

Ashley said:


> My problem, however, begins and ends with *assumptions*: that I don't know what I'm doing or what can and will happen as a result of gaining, that I just don't care about any of these consequences, that I can't separate fantasy from reality, that I am doing this for anyone but myself, and on and on and on.


Emphasis mine, QFT.

I direct readers to my own sig to further emphasize this point.


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## marlowegarp (Mar 23, 2010)

Ashley said:


> I've held back from this thread, and I think "battle-fatigue" covers the reasons for that pretty well (thank you AFG). Also, given recent events, I'll probably really regret even getting started on this, but here it is anyway.
> 
> Honestly, I don't begrudge anyone their concerns over gaining. I also don't think it's unreasonable to voice them. I think it generally comes from a place of concern and caring. I don't feel judged by people like SocialbFly because I think she honestly has my well-being in mind in posts like the one above.
> 
> ...



Why caint ah REP yew? (Because I just did somewhere else, but you know...)


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## marlowegarp (Mar 23, 2010)

Also, the same goes for feeders. We are not entitled to happiness, only its pursuit. And engaging in that pursuit with someone who is aware, enthusiastic and sensible? It's pretty great.


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## FatAndProud (Mar 25, 2010)

Gaining is serious bidness. I am so into it; as you know from my membership on Fantasy Feeder. I haven't really had anyone "warn" me. I've learned to keep my fetish under wraps, though. It's my personal tastes and it's the same as any other fetish. There is no need to display it to the world. Over 4 years I have gained over 80lbs and it was so liberating!! 

What I don't like are the creepers that try to encourage you to gain weight and only see you as a tub of lard. That's what really puts a damper in gaining, for me. I prefer to gain alone at this point. Someday I will find a guy that's into gaining and capable of being normal lol


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## Paquito (Mar 25, 2010)

FatAndProud said:


> What I don't like are the* creepers* that try to encourage you to gain weight and only see you as a tub of lard. That's what really puts a damper in gaining, for me. I prefer to gain alone at this point. Someday I will find a guy that's into gaining and capable of being normal lol



You wanna talk about creepers? I think we should have a thread about creepy encouragers.


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## superodalisque (Mar 25, 2010)

as long as you truly know what you're getting into and why, its your own business and you don't have to justify anything you do to anyone. i definitely feel women who feel second guessed and judged at every turn as it regards their own body. as long as she is actually doing it because its for her and its actually her own drive she should be fine with anything she decides and the repercussions just as in anything else she wants to do in life. a woman's journey is hers and no one else's.


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## superodalisque (Mar 25, 2010)

FatAndProud said:


> Gaining is serious bidness. I am so into it; as you know from my membership on Fantasy Feeder. I haven't really had anyone "warn" me. I've learned to keep my fetish under wraps, though. It's my personal tastes and it's the same as any other fetish. There is no need to display it to the world. Over 4 years I have gained over 80lbs and it was so liberating!!
> 
> What I don't like are the creepers that try to encourage you to gain weight and only see you as a tub of lard. That's what really puts a damper in gaining, for me. I prefer to gain alone at this point. Someday I will find a guy that's into gaining and capable of being normal lol



a big me too on the creepers thing. i think they are the ones who really give people the impression that women are just doing it for them. they are really control freaks and make it seem as though women who are feedees are their own creations. i think their attitudes hurt what some women might like to do more than anything the women themselves would want to do. i think being into being fat would seem much more of a normal relaxing and loving thing if people like that didn't turn it into a freak show.


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## Weirdo890 (Mar 26, 2010)

I'm here to say that whatever women do with their own bodies is fine with me. You want to gain, it's fine with me. The same way for girls who want to lose weight. I just have to say that whatever you want to do with your body, it has to be for YOU. You have to live with the results of your actions. I know that's what the thread is about, but I might as well put that out there anyway, because I can be anal-retentive that way. :blush:

Anyway, I just hope that if you do decide to gain, or lose, I just hope you're happy. :happy:


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## MizzSnakeBite (Mar 27, 2010)

Weirdo890 said:


> I'm here to say that whatever women do with their own bodies is fine with me. *You want to gain, it's fine with me. The same way for girls who want to lose weight. I just have to say that whatever you want to do with your body, it has to be for YOU. You have to live with the results of your actions.* I know that's what the thread is about, but I might as well put that out there anyway, because I can be anal-retentive that way. :blush:
> 
> Anyway, I just hope that if you do decide to gain, or lose, I just hope you're happy. :happy:



I approve this post :bow:


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## Wagimawr (Mar 28, 2010)

Weirdo890 said:


> I'm here to say that whatever women do with their own bodies is fine with me. You want to gain, it's fine with me. The same way for girls who want to lose weight. I just have to say that whatever you want to do with your body, it has to be for YOU.


There are those out there who would say that it does not matter whether you think it is "fine" or not.

Personally, I don't think positive messages such as the above are a bad thing, but your words do matter.


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## marlowegarp (Mar 28, 2010)

Wagimawr said:


> There are those out there who would say that it does not matter whether you think it is "fine" or not.
> 
> Personally, I don't think positive messages such as the above are a bad thing, but your words do matter.



Paradoxically, that's the point of the thread. As it's a thread, it follows that a response is wanted, but it's also an "I'm sick of these people's opinions up in my bizness" thread, one which usually carries a "Support me if you've been here, but otherwise zip it" caveat.


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