# I might have to get rid of my kitty.



## Britannia (Feb 7, 2008)

As most of you know, I got a cat a while back from a rescue group. She had the normal adjustment problems and unruly behavior, which I've been tolerating and trying to correct, but it's gotten to the point where I can't handle her antics and am having to consider giving her back to the rescue group.

Despite my firm, consistent rules and subsequent punishment, she continues to be very rebellious and is now threatening my ability to remain in my apartment building. She has scratched up my walls, ruined some of my blinds, ripped up my carpet, trashes my bathroom on a daily basis, and has absolutely ruined the original upholstery on my 1950's dining table & chairs set, which was in mint condition before my cat came along. She's also ruined some very expensive clothes of mine, and it's only a matter of time before she begins ruining some of the rare religious iconography that I've collected over the years, since she has now begun to jump up and rip things down off of my bookcase.

There is also the issue of my moving to Phoenix in August: I will be living with a roommate who is deathly allergic to cats, and although we've been planning on just confining my kitty to my bedroom and not allowing her elsewhere in the house we're going to live in, it's probable that I would have to choose between her and my friend's health anyways.

I love this cat to death and am very attached to her, but it's gotten to the point where I'm not sure I can handle her anymore. I feel bad, because I'm so fond of her and feel guilty about the idea of returning her to the rescue team. The lady was so happy that I was able to take her in, and I do worry that my cat would never find her if I were to return her, since she's over a year old and has such behavioral problems.

I don't know what to do at this point, and would really like some advice.


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## David Bowie (Feb 7, 2008)

time to get rid of the kitty 

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## Tooz (Feb 7, 2008)

Homes often need to be cat-proofed.


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## IwannabeVERYfat (Feb 7, 2008)

having them de clawed helps limit damage too

I sure miss My kitty


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## Spanky (Feb 7, 2008)

Some people might recommend that YOU go to the shelter and leave the damn cat at home. (but fill the food dish and water dish before you go, mkay?) j/k

Seriously, the best dog owners I have seen, meaning those who truly train their dogs well, many times seem to train the dog to sleep in a kennel. They say that is acts as a "safe haven" for the dog where it can be quiet and safe and never get in trouble there. It also protects the dog from itself, namely doing bad doggie things while the owner is gone. When the owner is home, the dog then comes out. 

Maybe this kind of thing can work with a cat?? If the cat is older, maybe not. But as a "time out" place, cats do like dens, places that they feel safe and secure, maybe dark and warm. Plus this cat would be protected from getting into trouble when you are not around. 

I am not a dog or cat expert, just some thoughts. Good luck. I really love cats and wish my family could have one. (allergies)


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## mossystate (Feb 8, 2008)

Big..big vote against ridding a cat of its claws. Cats like to be able to scratch..hey, it's what they do. It is a psychological thing for them as well. Many shelters recieve many a cat, because the owners thought it was a great idea...only to have the cat get really messed up in the head, pooping and peeing outside the box..etc. I have scars on my hand from my little sweetie..heh..and that's just the way it has to be. 

As for your cat, Britannia, perhaps your ' eyes were bigger than your stomach '..seemed like a good idea..just not well thought out. I hope you can work with someone who knows their stuff.Like Spanky said, cats need to feel secure. They can also pick up on your stresses and emotions. They are very sensitive creatures. If there is a lot of commotion, loud music..etc..etc...kitty will not be a happy camper..and will let you know it. I don't know what punishment you are handing out, but a cat who is already fragile...needs to be handled with kid gloves.

Maybe the best idea would be to give the kitty up...she might thrive in a different environment. She deserves that.


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## Spanky (Feb 8, 2008)

mossystate said:


> Big..big vote against ridding a cat of its claws. Cats like to be able to scratch..hey, it's what they do. It is a psychological thing for them as well. Many shelters recieve many a cat, because the owners thought it was a great idea...only to have the cat get really messed up in the head, pooping and peeing outside the box..etc. I have scars on my hand from my little sweetie..heh..and that's just the way it has to be.
> 
> As for your cat, Britannia, perhaps your ' eyes were bigger than your stomach '..seemed like a good idea..just not well thought out. I hope you can work with someone who knows their stuff.Like Spanky said, cats need to feel secure. They can also pick up on your stresses and emotions. They are very sensitive creatures. If there is a lot of commotion, loud music..etc..etc...kitty will not be a happy camper..and will let you know it. I don't know what punishment you are handing out, but a cat who is already fragile...needs to be handled with kid gloves.
> 
> Maybe the best idea would be to give the kitty up...she might thrive in a different environment. She deserves that.





It took awhile for me to realize what "de-clawing" entailed. If you take your fingers and removed the first (barely bend-able) knuckle below the nail, that is what they do. They don't remove the nail (claw), they take the first section of the finger. 

This ain't no friggin' manicure gone wild. 

Ewww.


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## Britannia (Feb 8, 2008)

Yeah... it's not just about her unruly behavior (although it is very taxing and annoying), it's also that I'm going to be travelling a lot very soon, and when I move in August I won't be able to take her with me anyways.

My studio is going to be very empty and lonely without her, but I just left a message for the rescue group stating that I can no longer take care of her.

I know I'm making the mature/responsible decision, but I'm on the verge of tears. I really do love her.


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## mossystate (Feb 8, 2008)

Spanky said:


> It took awhile for me to realize what "de-clawing" entailed. If you take your fingers and removed the first (barely bend-able) knuckle below the nail, that is what they do. They don't remove the nail (claw), they take the first section of the finger.
> 
> This ain't no friggin' manicure gone wild.
> 
> Ewww.



Yes!!

Hey, your cuticles look a little nasty..come here..I will give you a manicure...


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## VelvetKiss (Feb 8, 2008)

I had to give away my darling Moonlight when I moved and could not take her, I have always felt I did what was best for her because I found her a great loving home. I know have a place where I can have cats and I have 2 lovely cats again.

I would suggest maybe trying to find someone you know who is loving and might want to take the cat and if not maybe you can try putting the cat in one of the adoption programs at the pet store. 

It is never an easy decision to give up a loved pet, but sometimes it is what is best for both owner and pet. Good Luck to you.


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## bexy (Feb 8, 2008)

as the owner of a very sick cat, this post makes me sad 

sure cats wreck things, thats why i have a lot of my stuff moved out of reach of them. i got my cats from a shelter too, knowing they had been neglected, knowing they were used to running wild, and willing to take them on and deal with that. 

they scratch things, but carefully placed scratching posts rubbed with catnip minimizes that. toys to chase around and scratch at are fun too. 

i understand the problems your having too though, and to be honest confining a cat to one room is no good either. she will wreck even more if she thinks she is being held back, or locked up. did u know u were moving before u got her?

do u personally know anyone who can take her? or can u persevere? i know i couldnt take her back to the shelter. if she has grown attached to you it will be awful for her. 

cats are really hard animals to chastise, one of mine is deaf which made it even harder. if there are certain areas u dont want her going sprinkling them with a tiny bit of pepper can deter her. also a spray water bottle is the best detterant if u see her scratching, i only have to lift the bottle up nowadays for my kittys to stop being bold.

declawing like people have said is cruel. so cruel it doesnt happen here in the uk. it is thought of a last resort before euthanasia to be honest. cats cant climb without their claws, or knead to get comfy, or even groom properly.

brit i really hope u are able to get sorted and make the right decision for the kitty.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 8, 2008)

Hopefully in the future you will realize that a pet is not an impulse buy.

I don't know when you planned to start traveling, but you're saying you'd have to give the cat up anyway because of it. Didn't you know when you GOT the cat you'd be traveling? Or if you planned it afterwards, did it ever occur to you if you have a pet and want to travel, it's your responsibility to make arrangements for the pet. 

And no cat owners on this board would think it would have been a viable option to confine a cat to one part of a house. The allergans would have bothered your roomate no matter what, as I suspect you realize.

I have no doubt I'll get flamed by the same people who bitched at me back when I suggested getting a dog from a backyard breeder was a bad idea, but I really don't care. I have a lot more concern for animals who get adopted on impulse and returned when no longer convenient.


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## moore2me (Feb 8, 2008)

Britannia said:


> Yeah... it's not just about her unruly behavior (although it is very taxing and annoying), it's also that I'm going to be travelling a lot very soon, and when I move in August I won't be able to take her with me anyways.
> 
> My studio is going to be very empty and lonely without her, but I just left a message for the rescue group stating that I can no longer take care of her.
> 
> I know I'm making the mature/responsible decision, but I'm on the verge of tears. I really do love her.



Britannia, Sounds like you are making the best decision you can in the situation you are in. As you already know, sometimes life is hard and we have to make choices that we had rather not make. I am sorry that you are losing your kitty friend at the same time you are facing the lose of your grandpa that you mentioned in a previous post. Having so much lose or trauma at one time is hard on anyone. And you also mentioned you are planning on moving to another city as well? That will add another "brick" on the psychological trauma load. 

You will need to take extra care of yourself and be sure and not let all these adverse life events get the better of you. You have my prayers and thoughts.


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## GWARrior (Feb 8, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Hopefully in the future you will realize that a pet is not an impulse buy.
> 
> I don't know when you planned to start traveling, but you're saying you'd have to give the cat up anyway because of it. Didn't you know when you GOT the cat you'd be traveling? Or if you planned it afterwards, did it ever occur to you if you have a pet and want to travel, it's your responsibility to make arrangements for the pet.
> 
> ...




its ok. you have support.


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## Tooz (Feb 8, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Hopefully in the future you will realize that a pet is not an impulse buy.



God DAMN do I agree with this. I actually agree with you, LoveBHMS. I think this is one of the first times. :batting:


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Feb 8, 2008)

And here's the thing, Brit: You made a commitment, as several people pointed out. When you have a baby, or get a life partner, or make any major commitment, you don't get to bail when it's just not easy anymore.

Cats wreck stuff. I'm sorry your stuff got wrecked, but it's stuff. You can get more stuff. A table is a thing you eat off of and play poker on and clothes are something that keep you from being arrested. Blinds and carpets can be repaired. The cat can get more attention and toys.

I travel, and after getting a new job awhile back, my travel increased. Answer? I rent from a very nice older lady who graciously watches my cat. 

My first choice is you change your life. A cat isn't just a pet. It's a partner of sorts and I think you owe the cat some respect. Failing that you can't have a responsible and serene environment for the cat, give the cat up.


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## Tooz (Feb 8, 2008)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> And here's the thing, Brit: You made a commitment, as several people pointed out. When you have a baby, or get a life partner, or make any major commitment, you don't get to bail when it's just not easy anymore.
> 
> Cats wreck stuff. I'm sorry your stuff got wrecked, but it's stuff. You can get more stuff. A table is a thing you eat off of and play poker on and clothes are something that keep you from being arrested. Blinds and carpets can be repaired. The cat can get more attention and toys.
> 
> ...



I love me some Casey.

Re: toys, attention-- how much does this cat actually GET? These are crucial things for an animal to have. We have a huge watering can full of toys for the cats. Having a cat is kind of like having a baby-- there are toys everywhere, and general kitty clutter. Fashionable house means unhappy cat.


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## mossystate (Feb 8, 2008)

Yeah...I was trying to be too ...well.....anyway....thanks to LoveBHMS...point blank...if your life is generally chaotic...think about any living breathing thing you want to drag into it. Please think about this next time.


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## Tooz (Feb 9, 2008)

moore2me said:


> Britannia, Sounds like you are making the best decision you can in the situation you are in. As you already know, sometimes life is hard and we have to make choices that we had rather not make. I am sorry that you are losing your kitty friend



I didn't see this post before.

Are you SERIOUS? There is so much wrong with this that I don't even know where to START.

#1: She is not LOSING the cat. She is GIVING THE CAT UP. Two entirely fucking different situations.

#2: The best decision would have been THINKING ENOUGH to realise having a cat is not the best idea because you want a ~house beautiful~ apartment. A cat or dog or pet in general is ANOTHER LIFE, much like a baby. Don't take it on unless you can handle it!

Moore, seriously, of all the things this is, loss isn't one of them.


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## furious styles (Feb 9, 2008)

I'm a big cat fan, I have two and take care of them, but a cat is not a child. Once you have one you _can_ give it up. Is it a good thing to do? Of course not, but ultimately you're a human and it's a pet. 

The cat seems to be costing you a good bit of monetary damage, and as you said your life plans have taken form recently, and they don't include a cat. Real life does happen; what you can do is find something to do with her (it was suggested that you search out people you know, and if that fails contact the organization), and hope to learn something from the experience.


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## Tooz (Feb 9, 2008)

mfdoom said:


> I'm a big cat fan, I have two and take care of them, but a cat is not a child. Once you have one you _can_ give it up. Is it a good thing to do? Of course not, but ultimately you're a human and it's a pet.
> 
> The cat seems to be costing you a good bit of monetary damage, and as you said your life plans have taken form recently, and they don't include a cat. Real life does happen; what you can do is find something to do with her (it was suggested that you search out people you know, and if that fails contact the organization), and hope to learn something from the experience.



The funniest thing about you is that you can seriously justify anything.


Anyway, I stand by my previous statements.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 9, 2008)

mfdoom said:


> I'm a big cat fan, I have two and take care of them, but a cat is not a child. Once you have one you _can_ give it up. Is it a good thing to do? Of course not, but ultimately you're a human and it's a pet.
> 
> The cat seems to be costing you a good bit of monetary damage, and as you said your life plans have taken form recently, and they don't include a cat. Real life does happen; what you can do is find something to do with her (it was suggested that you search out people you know, and if that fails contact the organization), and hope to learn something from the experience.



Her life plans did not change "recently", she knew she'd be moving which is why she said she initially would confine the cat when living with somebody with allergies. I also doubt her travel plans just came up this week. She's even posted about her plans to go on a reality TV show part of which will be filmed in Brazil.

But beyond that, pets are not disposable. You don't adopt one with the mentality that if things change you just get rid of them.


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## furious styles (Feb 9, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Her life plans did not change "recently", she knew she'd be moving which is why she said she initially would confine the cat when living with somebody with allergies. I also doubt her travel plans just came up this week. She's even posted about her plans to go on a reality TV show part of which will be filmed in Brazil.
> 
> But beyond that, pets are not disposable. You don't adopt one with the mentality that if things change you just get rid of them.



She _now_ knows she'll be moving. I don't remember her saying when she discovered this was going to happen. I doubt it was before she got the cat. Same goes for her travel plans. You're making a bunch of assumptions, and it seems to me that you're responding in more of an emotionally charged way than just providing advice. 

She's obviously a bit hurt because she's in a tough position between real life and her cat that you don't seem to understand. Obviously I don't feel a _ton_ of pity here, but I'm not going to disregard or make light of her conflict on the subject. Feel free to trivialize it and say "you made a commitment now stick with it," but as is often the case; it's not that simple.


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## tattooU (Feb 9, 2008)

Maybe she did just find out she's moving (how is that possible, how do you not plan ahead for moving 2 hours away?) but she doesn't HAVE to move in with someone who has allergies. She could find another place to live. 

I have many dogs. If I found out tomorrow that I'm moving (?) a roommate with a dog allergy would NOT be an option for me. End of story. 

Most people only want the good parts of pet ownership and can't deal with the bad part. So they just "get rid of it".


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 9, 2008)

Well if youg go back and read her original post, she specifically refers to her plans to confine the cat after moving. So yes, she did know.

She also posted months ago about intentions to go on "Americas Next Top Model" which would be filmed in Brazil.

And as the above poster says, when you commit to an animal, you don't bail out because it's easier. You make plans for it--that is why people make a living working as pet sitter and owning kennels & why vets board animals. 




mfdoom said:


> She _now_ knows she'll be moving. I don't remember her saying when she discovered this was going to happen. I doubt it was before she got the cat. Same goes for her travel plans. You're making a bunch of assumptions, and it seems to me that you're responding in more of an emotionally charged way than just providing advice.
> 
> She's obviously a bit hurt because she's in a tough position between real life and her cat that you don't seem to understand. Obviously I don't feel a _ton_ of pity here, but I'm not going to disregard or make light of her conflict on the subject. Feel free to trivialize it and say "you made a commitment now stick with it," but as is often the case; it's not that simple.


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## furious styles (Feb 9, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Well if youg go back and read her original post, she specifically refers to her plans to confine the cat after moving. So yes, she did know.
> 
> She also posted months ago about intentions to go on "Americas Next Top Model" which would be filmed in Brazil.
> 
> And as the above poster says, when you commit to an animal, you don't bail out because it's easier. You make plans for it--that is why people make a living working as pet sitter and owning kennels & why vets board animals.



Uhh .. you're inferring at random here. It has not been stated once that any of this planning took place prior to her attaining the cat. What you stated about the bedroom plan was post cat-owning, trying to find a solution to the fundamental problem of the future room-mate's allergen.

As far as the model thing goes, I don't know how this "months ago" date stacks up with when she attained the cat. If it was before she got it, then it's a moot point. If it was after, she probably would have made plans for someone to keep the cat for the period of time she was gone. 

Why do you insist on vilifying her because circumstances of her life have come between her and having a cat? It happens. It's what's known as real life, not some fantasy world where everything works out perfectly all the time and she's just a quitter and a bad person.


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## Risible (Feb 9, 2008)

Pets are like children in some ways - they clutter up the house with toys, they vomit, pee and poo where they shouldn't, they destroy things, they wake you up before you're ready to get up - and so on and so forth. In my experience, it takes up to a couple of years for a new pet to settle down - especially a puppy or kitty.

Pets are a hassle. But they're not disposable. When you bring home a pet, it is a commitment for the rest of their lifetime. Dumping pets should be illegal, but it's not. 

Brittania, you're disposing of your cat because it's inconvenient and it interferes with your plans.

And *that* is from the perspective of a mature, responsible adult.


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## moore2me (Feb 9, 2008)

Tooz said:


> I didn't see this post before.
> 
> Are you SERIOUS? There is so much wrong with this that I don't even know where to START.
> 
> ...



Sometimes, in real life we have to make difficult choices we do not want to make. Sometimes we have to give up a pet we love because circumstances dictact that we do so. There is no way to avoid such events. You can plan & plan and life still will come along and bite you on the butt and make you react in a totally new way than you had planned. 

A good example is in the Rawlings book *The Yearling*, about the boy who raises a pet deer only to face having to give the deer up due to circumstances. It was also made into a wonderful movie starring Gregory Peck. 

I have never adopted cats but have adopted dogs and had to give one of them up. The reason was I had to move (not by choice) and my new place of residence would not let me keep the animal. I had to move back home to mom & dad's. Mom called the local animal control shelter and had them come and get the dog before she would let me spend one night in her house. I had nowhere else to go - I had left a physically abusive personal relationship and at the time it was a choice between living in my car or moving back home & giving up the dog. Sometimes, you have to make a choice between two bad situations.

I also had to get rid of a horse that was "untrainable". I had been training horses for years and this particular horse was about my sixth animal. I had known the horse's mother and she was a fine animal. So, I bought her filly - except the filly was about five years old, had never been ridden or handled, just left to run free in a pasture. Well, that horse & I spent all summer fighting. I tried every trick I knew. That blasted animal threw me off or scraped me off every time I got on her. She would take off at a dead run and dodge at a 90 degree angle and throw me on the ground. She threw me on rocks, gravel, mud, you name it. 

I finally gave up, having been battered one too many time by a 1300 lb crazy horse. Since, I only paid $400 for her, I sold her at a sale barn. I loved all my horses and took good care of them, but this one for me was untouchable. I was glad to see the last of that crazy beast. But, the next summer, I started again with a new horse & the two of us got along just fine. I never had another "gluebag" like that crazy one - thank goodness! 
And lastly -


__________________




Risible said:


> Pets are like children in some ways - they clutter up the house with toys, they vomit, pee and poo where they shouldn't, they destroy things, they wake you up before you're ready to get up - and so on and so forth. In my experience, it takes up to a couple of years for a new pet to settle down - especially a puppy or kitty.
> 
> Pets are a hassle. But they're not disposable. When you bring home a pet, it is a commitment for the rest of their lifetime. Dumping pets should be illegal, but it's not.
> 
> ...



Risible, Circumstances change. Pets sometimes come out on the losing end of these changes. I have been forced to move because my landlord sold the house I was renting - and I couldn't find a new place that took dogs. I have had inside dogs run past me at an open door and chase neighborhood kids riding bikes, scaring the kids, and having the parents (rightly so) come after me demading the dogs removal from the neighborhood. I have had pets develop a "personality conflict" toward other pets and one of them had to go. It wasn't due to a character flaw in me - just bad luck.




Britannia said:


> As most of you know, I got a cat a while back from a rescue group. She had the normal adjustment problems and unruly behavior, which I've been tolerating and trying to correct, but it's gotten to the point where I can't handle her antics and am having to consider giving her back to the rescue group.
> 
> Despite my firm, consistent rules and subsequent punishment, she continues to be very rebellious and is now threatening my ability to remain in my apartment building. She has scratched up my walls, ruined some of my blinds, ripped up my carpet, trashes my bathroom on a daily basis, and has absolutely ruined the original upholstery on my 1950's dining table & chairs set, which was in mint condition before my cat came along. She's also ruined some very expensive clothes of mine, and it's only a matter of time before she begins ruining some of the rare religious iconography that I've collected over the years, since she has now begun to jump up and rip things down off of my bookcase.




Protecting our historic art treasures is a responsibility we all owe our ancestor's and the future. Religious iconographs are important treasures to protect as they have been systematically destroyed by several governments and cultures including Communism, Socialism, Stalinism, and war in general. Letting a cat (or human or regime) do damage to a piece of art history is shameful and a tragic waste. It does not matter if you are religious are not, these a works created by artists centuries ago and are part of our hertitage. Our future generations deserve to cherish them as well. People have given their lives to protect art - they are not to be scratching posts for playful cats. If you do not feel this way, go to an art museum and stand in front of your favorite work of art and reconsider your position. 

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## Tooz (Feb 9, 2008)

Man, I wish I lived in a fairy tale like you apparently do. :\


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 9, 2008)

Moore-

Referring to a horse as a "gluebag" is seriously offensive. Simply because she could not be ridden doesn't mean she deserved to be sold for slaughter.

Nobody is challenging the value of religious artifacts. But she HAD THEM when she got the kitten. If you own stuff that can't withstand being scratched you don't get a cat. This can not be too difficult to understand. You can also get an older & calmer cat, or you can volunteer as a foster before adopting. 

And when you're an 18 year old student, you can expect your life and circumstances to change often. Therefore, taking responsibility for another life when you can't manage your own is cruel and irresponsible.


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## Isa (Feb 9, 2008)

moore2me said:


> Sometimes, in real life we have to make difficult choices we do not want to make. Sometimes we have to give up a pet we love because circumstances dictact that we do so. There is no way to avoid such events. You can plan & plan and life still will come along and bite you on the butt and make you react in a totally new way than you had planned.



I understand what you are saying but the OP has created two pet related threads and from her own words does does not come across as a responsible pet owner. Once this cat is out of her life it is my hope that she never takes on another pet. It's totally unfair to the animals involved. 




moore2me said:


> ...I never had another "gluebag" like that crazy one - thank goodness!




gluebag?? Is that what credible horse trainers call difficult animals? I'm impressed.


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## Isa (Feb 9, 2008)

Risible said:


> Pets are like children in some ways - they clutter up the house with toys, they vomit, pee and poo where they shouldn't, they destroy things, they wake you up before you're ready to get up - and so on and so forth. In my experience, it takes up to a couple of years for a new pet to settle down - especially a puppy or kitty.
> 
> Pets are a hassle. But they're not disposable. When you bring home a pet, it is a commitment for the rest of their lifetime. Dumping pets should be illegal, but it's not.
> 
> ...



Couldn't have said it better myself.


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## Ash (Feb 9, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Referring to a horse as a "gluebag" is seriously offensive.



Whoa. Ditto.


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## Risible (Feb 9, 2008)

moore2me said:


> Sometimes, in real life we have to make difficult choices we do not want to make. Sometimes we have to give up a pet we love because circumstances dictact that we do so. There is no way to avoid such events. You can plan & plan and life still will come along and bite you on the butt and make you react in a totally new way than you had planned.
> 
> A good example is in the Rawlings book *The Yearling*, about the boy who raises a pet deer only to face having to give the deer up due to circumstances. It was also made into a wonderful movie starring Gregory Peck.
> 
> ...



M2M, Brittania has choices, options - you didn't. You did the best you could under the circumstances.

In this case, Brittania is giving up the cat because it's inconvenient. I would argue that all pets are inconvenient. I know that pets are mere property under the eyes of the law, but for a pet owner to treat their pet like it's disposable is reprehensible to me.


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## moore2me (Feb 9, 2008)

FYI - said gluebag sent me to the local emergency room. I woke up while the back of my head was being stitched up. I was knocked unconscious by said gluebag when she threw me off (again) this time I landed on a rock. A man driving by saw me and got me in his truck and carried me to the ER. I did not gain consciousness until they had me about half the way stitched up.

And to add insult to injury, a few days later I tried to comb my hair and ripped my stitches out with my comb. I couldn't see what I was doing because they were in the back of my head.

Perhaps this brain injury caused some of my bad attitude I have today. 

That horse had it in her to behave. She was docile when no one was on her. But get on her back - and Katie bar the door - you were going down - hard.


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## Ash (Feb 9, 2008)

moore2me said:


> FYI - said gluebag sent me to the local emergency room. I woke up while the back of my head was being stitched up. I was knocked unconscious by said gluebag when she threw me off (again) this time I landed on a rock. A man driving by saw me and got me in his truck and carried me to the ER. I did not gain consciousness until they had me about half the way stitched up.
> 
> And to add insult to injury, a few days later I tried to comb my hair and ripped my stitches out with my comb. I couldn't see what I was doing because they were in the back of my head.
> 
> ...



But I think we can agree that it was her lack of training from her other human owners that caused her to be that way. Animals don't plot against people. If she was truly "untrainable" (and I hesitate to even use that word, as I saw very, very unruly horses trained every day when I was growing up) then it was the result of human error (and possibly neglect). It wasn't the horse's fault, so she wasn't a gluebag. Her former owners? Possibly.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Feb 9, 2008)

> That horse had it in her to behave. She was docile when no one was on her. But get on her back - and Katie bar the door - you were going down - hard.



I usuallu agree with you but I gotta ask - If you knew this why did you ever try to get back on her? If you got hurt a second time - seems to me it was your doing, not the horse. Some horses cannot be ridden. And to try to *break* the spririt of a horse like that is a crime - IMO.

Now about Brittania. I think giving up her cat is her best option right now. And anyone who thinks de-clawing is OK should never have a cat. It's as offensive to me as de-barking a dog. 

Cats scratch - dogs bark! We have had Miss Della for 14 years - she is 15. Over the years she has scratched things - knocked things over - ruined clothes - but so did I when I was a kid. It's a good thing my parents didn't give me away. You accept what comes with a pet - or don't get them.


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## Tooz (Feb 9, 2008)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I usuallu agree with you but I gotta ask - If you knew this why did you ever try to get back on her?



I'm Tooz and I approve this statement.

Also, Bingle (one of my cats) ruined a 500 dollar floor lamp of mine. I did not get rid of him.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Feb 9, 2008)

I'm a bit confused. I didn't know horses existed for people to ride them. Seems pretty reasonable for some horses to flip out when they've got a human climbing on top of them. Hardly makes them a "gluebag". 

This whole thread is fucking depressing .. 

I know animals are not children, but I do believe that how we treat our pets is a reflection on how we would treat our children. If you stick a child in a room and say, this is your place now, don't mess it up. What happens after that? Kid draws on the walls in crayon and it's time to give it away? 

I'm aware that sometimes circumstances change, but we shouldn't let them be in control, especially when another life is involved. We should work around them to make them fit for us. 

I don't know. Having a pet is a privilege, these creatures don't exist for the sole purpose of amusing us. This all just seems very selfish to me.


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## mossystate (Feb 9, 2008)

this is what my sweet Bucky did to me...now, he got spooked, so that's the only reason I did not toss him out a window.....swelled like someone shoved an egg under my skin..no insurance, so, I rolled the dice..and...phew....no infection.......he is a cat...they jump real high, claws out, when they are upset...it's what they dooooooooo....


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 9, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> I'm a bit confused. I didn't know horses existed for people to ride them. Seems pretty reasonable for some horses to flip out when they've got a human climbing on top of them. Hardly makes them a "gluebag".
> 
> This whole thread is fucking depressing ..
> 
> ...




You.Rock. 

Moore, you really really need to look at how over the top offensive your posts are. Even if you want to use the term "gluebag", once you've seen that four posters on a single page are offended, you stop fucking using that term. We're not talking about a difference of opinion.

Everyone who's ridden horses seriously for any length of time has been injured. I sure as heck have but I don't blame the horse. As Ashley said, the horses that injured me were not bad animals. I guess for some reason you can rationalize something as horrific as selling a horse for slaughter because you couldn't train her, but most of us find that to be really sick.


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## GWARrior (Feb 9, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> I'm a bit confused. I didn't know horses existed for people to ride them. Seems pretty reasonable for some horses to flip out when they've got a human climbing on top of them. Hardly makes them a "gluebag".
> 
> This whole thread is fucking depressing ..
> 
> ...




I couldnt rep you, so this is me publicly stroking your ego.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Feb 9, 2008)

mfdoom said:


> I'm a big cat fan, I have two and take care of them, but a cat is not a child. Once you have one you _can_ give it up. Is it a good thing to do? Of course not, but ultimately you're a human and it's a pet.
> 
> The cat seems to be costing you a good bit of monetary damage, and as you said your life plans have taken form recently, and they don't include a cat. Real life does happen; what you can do is find something to do with her (it was suggested that you search out people you know, and if that fails contact the organization), and hope to learn something from the experience.



Actually, you can legally absolve yourself of parental rights, but that's neither here nor there.

One of the magical parts of being a grown up is that (hopefully) we get past taking material goods so seriously and start taking 100% responsibility for those who can't help themselves. When we take on loving another sentient being, the enlightened, mature thing to do is to see what we can do to create happiness and comfort for those in our lives. Being a child is about learning self-care. Being an adult is about learning care for others.

If we're not mature enough to make plans for Kitty Cat to have a place to stay on a trip and make sure s/he is loved/checked on/feels safe, then we're not mature enough to go traveling.

And, Moore, your behavior is just outrageous here. Maybe you need to take a break and look at what you've written once you've cooled off.


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## furious styles (Feb 9, 2008)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Actually, you can legally absolve yourself of parental rights, but that's neither here nor there.
> 
> One of the magical parts of being a grown up is that (hopefully) we get past taking material goods so seriously and start taking 100% responsibility for those who can't help themselves. When we take on loving another sentient being, the enlightened, mature thing to do is to see what we can do to create happiness and comfort for those in our lives. Being a child is about learning self-care. Being an adult is about learning care for others.
> 
> ...



I'm not going to convince anyone that cats =/= babies, apparently. I'm a pragmatist. I don't care about the cute sayings or the holier than thou behavior. She didn't know the cat was going to ruin a bunch of her stuff, she didn't know that her life plans would evolve beyond what they were at so quickly. She's giving it away. The end.

Some people throw animals into dumpsters or leave them on the side of the road. Some people throw newborns into dumpsters too. In the grand scheme of things I'd say that what she's doing is not that fucking cruel, and that we're all just too bored around here and looking for an excuse to crucify someone we don't like.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Feb 9, 2008)

I seriously doubt I'm looking to crucify Brit because I've known her before Dimensions.

But good job on assuming my motivations, ace.

And when I say it's time for Brit to put on her big girl pants and buck up, it's only because I've been a mile in those shoes. Dig?


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## Tooz (Feb 9, 2008)

mfdoom said:


> looking for an excuse to crucify someone we don't like.



If I wanted to crucify her, it'd be obvious to the world by now.

If you can't see caring for another life is a serious commitment, the problems are bigger than scratch marks on your ~vintage dining room set~.


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## Renaissance Woman (Feb 9, 2008)

If you get a pet, you plan accordingly for the rest of that animal's life.

A cat is jumping up on the bookcase and knocking things down? Time for a case with doors that will protect any valuables on the shelf.

It's scratching up the walls, carpet, and/or furniture? Better make sure you've got enough scratching posts, both vertical and horizontal. You also better make sure you've got time to teach the cat to use the scratching posts.

You're going on a trip? You make sure that the pet is cared for while you're gone.

You're moving? You don't move into a place that doesn't take pets or get a roommate that is allergic. 

You are working a lot? You get another animal to keep your pet company and/or get somebody else in to give the pet the attention it needs. 

A pet is a living being. It's not an accessory that goes out of fashion, a temporary commitment, or something to dump as soon as it becomes inconvenient or expensive. I have zero sympathy for anybody who claims they're moving and their new place doesn't take pets, or a potential roommate is allergic. If that's the case, you don't fucking move there! It's automatically eliminated!

A good friend of mine is a horse trainer and riding instructor. Her horse, TNT, spooked and she was thrown, breaking her back. She couldn't move for a few months and had to do a bunch of rehabilitation. Not once did she refer to TNT as "gluebag" or consider getting rid of him because of it. She was cautious about anybody riding him, but _she didn't blame the horse_.


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## furious styles (Feb 9, 2008)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> I seriously doubt I'm looking to crucify Brit because I've known her before Dimensions.
> 
> But good job on assuming my motivations, ace.
> 
> And when I say it's time for Brit to put on her big girl pants and buck up, it's only because I've been a mile in those shoes. Dig?



Sure. It's your cute idea of "being a grown up" that misled be, I suppose.

Are you both vegetarians as well? Because obviously to you all life is precious and cannot be "thrown away." Though maybe all those chickens and cows aren't as important because they aren't cute. I mean, how DARE someone give a disobedient pet that destroys their things to another person - that's just cruel. The slaughter and consumption of other animals is fine, though. We're throwing broad terms like "another life" and "sentient being" around, after all. Animals = Humans? Animals > Humans maybe? What's your stance on Abortion? Capital Punishment? I'd just like to see if all your stances are congruent on this essential protection of life.


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## Tooz (Feb 9, 2008)

mfdoom said:


> Sure. It's your cute idea of "being a grown up" that misled be, I suppose.
> 
> Are you both vegetarians as well? Because obviously to you all life is precious and cannot be "thrown away." Though maybe all those chickens and cows aren't as important because they aren't cute. I mean, how DARE someone give a disobedient pet that destroys their things to another person - that's just cruel. The slaughter and consumption of other animals is fine, though. We're throwing broad terms like "another life" and "sentient being" around, after all. Animals = Humans? Animals > Humans maybe? What's your stance on Abortion? Capital Punishment? I'd just like to see if all your stances are congruent on this essential protection of life.



Aww, look, he can use such BIG WORDS. You're one to criticize her maturity level.

Kind of taking this in the wrong direction. The point is not that ~*~*LIFE IS SACRED OMFG*~*~ but that you can't just take on an animal for fun and then ditch it the second it gets difficult. That is ridiculous. There's vegetarianism/whatever and then there's chuckin' a cat for peeing on your throw blanket.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Feb 9, 2008)

mfdoom said:


> Sure. It's your cute idea of "being a grown up" that misled be, I suppose.
> 
> Are you both vegetarians as well? Because obviously to you all life is precious and cannot be "thrown away." Though maybe all those chickens and cows aren't as important because they aren't cute. I mean, how DARE someone give a disobedient pet that destroys their things to another person - that's just cruel. The slaughter and consumption of other animals is fine, though. We're throwing broad terms like "another life" and "sentient being" around, after all. Animals = Humans? Animals > Humans maybe? What's your stance on Abortion? Capital Punishment? I'd just like to see if all your stances are congruent on this essential protection of life.



I've not eaten chicken or beef in quite some time, but I don't object to consuming animals. I object to maltreatment. I also try to limit the milk and egg products I consume. 

My stance on life is that all of it, fetal, animal, human, should have dignity in life and death. And I don't believe in the death penalty for humans, animals, or humans who act like animals.

Like all people, I work actively to make my beliefs congruent and sometimes fail. Thanks for the reminder to strive for better. I'll take your advice, examine my beliefs, and see if they parallel. I'm sure you'll do the same.


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## Fascinita (Feb 9, 2008)

What a mess.

Britannia, since you're asking--again--for advice, where I would hope the obvious would be... obvious... I think the smart thing to do here is to realize that you do not have room in your life at this point for a pet. 

Don't go declawing anyone that anyway you might not be agreeable with for any number of reasons down the road. Just man up and give the kitty back to the humane society, where they will hopefully find a responsible owner for it. Maybe down the road, when your life is more stable, you can find the time and energy it takes to commit to being responsible for a pet over its entire lifetime.

And confining a cat to one bedroom for godknowshowlong? Seriously a bad idea, both for you and your kitty. Think she's got behavior problems now? Wait until she hasn't been out of the one box of a room for three months. Might as well give up ALL your pretty clothes now. 

You want the expensive clothes and the fine furniture and the asthmatic roommate? Then you don't want a cat with behavorial problems. For everyone's sake, give up the cat. Call the shelter and tell them to start looking for a new home. When a new home is found, you can be glad and proud that you were able to foster and help her by caring for her in the meantime.


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## furious styles (Feb 9, 2008)

Tooz said:


> Aww, look, he can use such BIG WORDS. You're one to criticize her maturity level.
> 
> Kind of taking this in the wrong direction. The point is not that ~*~*LIFE IS SACRED OMFG*~*~ but that you can't just take on an animal for fun and then ditch it the second it gets difficult. That is ridiculous. There's vegetarianism/whatever and then there's chuckin' a cat for peeing on your throw blanket.



Again, you're trivializing her experience with the cat. I don't really care at this point though. Done arguing, my point was made. 

I'm especially not going to argue with you because, as apparently you don't understand, I don't let my personal problems with someone spill over into other neutral environments.



TheSadeianLinguist said:


> I've not eaten chicken or beef in quite some time, but I don't object to consuming animals. I object to maltreatment. I also try to limit the milk and egg products I consume.
> 
> My stance on life is that all of it, fetal, animal, human, should have dignity in life and death. And I don't believe in the death penalty for humans, animals, or humans who act like animals.
> 
> Like all people, I work actively to make my beliefs congruent and sometimes fail. Thanks for the reminder to strive for better. I'll take your advice, examine my beliefs, and see if they parallel. I'm sure you'll do the same.



If your stances are honestly for the proper treatment of all life, then more power to you. Hypocritical behavior is unavoidable in some cases, we're all guilty of it.

Countless thousands of animals are euthanized every day. It's a shame, but it's a reality of life. Thousands also die from natural causes. Same with human beings. I hope the best for her cat, maybe someone who's life permits it will take it in, and it will become more well behaved.

As an aside : If this girl really is your friend, as you've implied, then wow. I mean, if the way you counsel friends on tough choices is to try to make them look immature and akin to a bad person on a public forum .. ok. That's your prerogative. Maybe you figured it would "scare her straight" or something. I took issue more with the way it seemed that people were attacking her than the actual problem of the cat.


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## moore2me (Feb 9, 2008)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I usuallu agree with you but I gotta ask - If you knew this why did you ever try to get back on her? If you got hurt a second time - seems to me it was your doing, not the horse. Some horses cannot be ridden. And to try to *break* the spririt of a horse like that is a crime - IMO.



*When working with horses is was not unusual for me to get hurt a couple of times a week. And yes, I got back on the horse again and again. I would ride her in a small "breaking pen" - not big enough for her to take off or get to bucking bad. Everything okay. Take her out of the small pen and she would go into her crazy act. Why did I get trying? Because I am just as stubborn and iron willed as she was. It was sort of like a match of wills - she won. I lost.

And after I got hurt, why get back on? Not only am I stubborn - I am stoopid and then I was young and fearless. I believed in the old saying, if a horse throws you off, get back on them again.*




LoveBHMS said:


> You.Rock.
> 
> Moore, you really really need to look at how over the top offensive your posts are. Even if you want to use the term "gluebag", once you've seen that four posters on a single page are offended, you stop fucking using that term. We're not talking about a difference of opinion.
> 
> ...



*I never said I sold her for slaughter. I said I sold her at a sale barn. This means a public auction where anyone can buy horses, cows, or calves by bidding the highest amount. Most rural towns have sales in their county sales barn every week. People there buy horses for all kinds of reasons. Some buy them for their kids. Some buy them for work animals. Some buy them for dog food. Some buy them to train them & resell at a profit. Horses are not bought for a glue factory there. The glue factory will not pay near as much for a horse as a sale barn auction will bring. (To sell a horse at auction, you have to have some assurances it is in good health too.)*



TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Actually, you can legally absolve yourself of parental rights, but that's neither here nor there.
> 
> One of the magical parts of being a grown up is that (hopefully) we get past taking material goods so seriously and start taking 100% responsibility for those who can't help themselves. When we take on loving another sentient being, the enlightened, mature thing to do is to see what we can do to create happiness and comfort for those in our lives. Being a child is about learning self-care. Being an adult is about learning care for others.
> 
> ...



*We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us. 
Friedrich Nietzsche*


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## Tooz (Feb 9, 2008)

mfdoom said:


> Again, you're trivializing her experience with the cat. I don't really care at this point though. Done arguing, my point was made.
> 
> I'm especially not going to argue with you because, as apparently you don't understand, I don't let my personal problems with someone spill over into other neutral environments.



I am so sorry you've misunderstood my tone. There was nothing personal in that, I was undermining your weak (at best) point.

Re: trivializing-- oh yes, it's SO awful. I can tell she's in the hospital for cat scratches RIGHT NOW.

Okay, okay, I don't even think the OP is reading this anymore. She probably got scared.


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## furious styles (Feb 9, 2008)

Tooz said:


> I am so sorry you've misunderstood my tone. There was nothing personal in that, I was undermining your weak (at best) point.



Mmm. No :



Tooz said:


> Aww, look, he can use such BIG WORDS. You're one to criticize her maturity level.



Personal. You _lose_. Good _day_ sir.


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## GWARrior (Feb 9, 2008)

might be personal, but it was funny!

Tooz ftw!


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Feb 9, 2008)

mfdoom said:


> If your stances are honestly for the proper treatment of all life, then more power to you. Hypocritical behavior is unavoidable in some cases, we're all guilty of it.
> 
> Countless thousands of animals are euthanized every day. It's a shame, but it's a reality of life. Thousands also die from natural causes. Same with human beings. I hope the best for her cat, maybe someone who's life permits it will take it in, and it will become more well behaved.



Not following your point. I volunteered with RAM and RAM-V. I'm aware there's unnecessary pain and death, but I try not to create more than necessary.



mfdoom said:


> As an aside : If this girl really is your friend, as you've implied, then wow. I mean, if the way you counsel friends on tough choices is to try to make them look immature and akin to a bad person on a public forum .. ok. That's your prerogative. Maybe you figured it would "scare her straight" or something. I took issue more with the way it seemed that people were attacking her than the actual problem of the cat.



If you saw an insult there, you're mistaken. If you saw frustration, you're correct. I see a woman who needs to take responsibility for a life she's created.



moore2me said:


> *
> We often refuse to accept an idea merely because the tone of voice in which it has been expressed is unsympathetic to us.
> Friedrich Nietzsche*


*

Oh! We're playing a quote game! Here's one:

"I hate quotations. Tell me what you know." RWE*


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## Fascinita (Feb 9, 2008)

moore2me, just a point of netiquette... Is it really necessary to use a bold font AND a red color over an entire response to try to make your point? I think eloquence wins points more aptly than screaming-red letters, don't you?


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## furious styles (Feb 9, 2008)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Not following your point. I volunteered with RAM and RAM-V. I'm aware there's unnecessary pain and death, but I try not to create more than necessary.



I can relate. The point I was trying to make was to take everything in context. Stressing reality. I also follow what you detailed in your last sentence, it's a good way to live one's life. However, I don't think that giving the cat up is that bad of a thing. She might've made a mistake. If she can understand that, find a home for her pet, and move on, I would say it's a winning situation. This has been my point from the start.



> If you saw an insult there, you're mistaken. If you saw frustration, you're correct. I see a woman who needs to take responsibility for a life she's created.



What you said could be construed as a veiled insult. It's not so much that you were directly insulting her, it's that you're bolding the faults you find with her in front of others. Only you know what you meant. You've told me that your intentions were not malicious, so I'll just have to take that at face value.


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## vardon_grip (Feb 9, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Moore-Referring to a horse as a "gluebag" is seriously offensive.



I think the "gluebag" reference was a "joke". Possibly in the same way that a parent might jokingly refer to their child as a "rugrat". Lighten up.



BothGunsBlazing said:


> I'm a bit confused. I didn't know horses existed for people to ride them.



We share the same confusion as to why some humans think that cats or dogs exist to be pets. Lighten up.

Some people are animal people. Some are not. Lighten up.

and finally...Pro Life or Pro Choice? If you are Pro Choice and fight for animal responsibility....Hmmmmmm!

As my mama says-"Baby, sinners ALWAYS have the biggest stones to throw"


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Feb 9, 2008)

mfdoom said:


> I can relate. The point I was trying to make was to take everything in context. Stressing reality. I also follow what you detailed in your last sentence, it's a good way to live one's life. However, I don't think that giving the cat up is that bad of a thing. She might've made a mistake. If she can understand that, find a home for her pet, and move on, I would say it's a winning situation. This has been my point from the start.
> 
> 
> 
> What you said could be construed as a veiled insult. It's not so much that you were directly insulting her, it's that you're bolding the faults you find with her in front of others. Only you know what you meant. You've told me that your intentions were not malicious, so I'll just have to take that at face value.



Sure. We all make mistakes. That's part of growing up. I would rather she look at what she should change rather than abandoning the situation. This is my experience of becoming an adult.

If you've had negative experiences with people chastising you for not being enough of an "adult," I'm sorry. I get that vibe.


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## furious styles (Feb 9, 2008)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Sure. We all make mistakes. That's part of growing up. I would rather she look at what she should change rather than abandoning the situation. This is my experience of becoming an adult.



If that's what you believe, I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise.



> If you've had negative experiences with people chastising you for not being enough of an "adult," I'm sorry. I get that vibe.



Just defending someone I felt was being chastised unfairly. ^^


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## bexy (Feb 9, 2008)

moore2me said:


> People have given their lives to protect art - they are not to be scratching posts for playful cats. If you do not feel this way, go to an art museum and stand in front of your favorite work of art and reconsider your position.



*THEN YOU DONT GET A CAT!! If there are items this precious in your home, they should be under bloody lock and key, or behind protective glass. Dust, the sun, cleaning products etc can all severly damage art, not just kittys claws.*



mossystate said:


> this is what my sweet Bucky did to me...now, he got spooked, so that's the only reason I did not toss him out a window.....swelled like someone shoved an egg under my skin..no insurance, so, I rolled the dice..and...phew....no infection.......he is a cat...they jump real high, claws out, when they are upset...it's what they dooooooooo....




*I totally feel your pain, I still cant feel the top of my left index finger after being bitten by my kitty 2 weeks ago giving him his meds. And I had to get a tetanus. But its what you do! You take them home to look after them in good times and bad. If you want something that just looks pretty you get a stuffed toy!

Mossy glad your kitty is ok, try some arnica on that bruise lol!*


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## Fascinita (Feb 9, 2008)

vardon_grip said:


> As my mama says-"Baby, sinners ALWAYS have the biggest stones to throw"



Please, let us keep our mothers' religious views out of this conversation. As if it wasn't messy enough already.


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## Tooz (Feb 9, 2008)

mfdoom said:


> Mmm. No :
> 
> 
> 
> Personal. You _lose_. Good _day_ sir.



:batting: It's just so HARD when you leave yourself so wide open. :batting:


Bexy, I love the way you have worded it. So blunt and good. I honestly wish I had thought to bring up dust/sun/etc.


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## Mystic Rain (Feb 10, 2008)

I must have stumbled into Hyde Park by accident. *checks forum title* No, it says The Lounge. Huh, that's strange.

I think we all need to take a breather and step back from this topic for a minute. We're getting way too worked up and emotional. Tossing insults left and right at each another is not going to help the issue, or the OP.

I want to share a story of my own about my dog, and how I almost wound up having to give her up. 

I adopted my little Kira, a Pom-mix, from a Humane Society about an hour away from where I live last year. At the time, I lived in an apartment, that did allow small pets, with a roommate. My roommate was okay with it after talking it over with her, and especially because she had a little baby. I'd researched it all. So with that permission, I adopted Kira.

However, after all was said and done, my roommate started freaking out about the dog. She wouldn't tell me up front, no, but I had to find out from my mother which she had confided in her. By then, it was too late. The dog was on her way, and I'd bought all the necessaties she would need. So my roommate promised to give the dog a chance first.

Turned out anyway after I obtained the dog, I had bad, bad issues with my allergies. I'm mildly allergic to dogs, severely more so with cats, but I never imagined it'd make me so sick having her indoors in the apartment all the time.

My parents have a dog too, which was also my dog until I moved out. When I did, I missed her, and wanted to have a pet of my own to love and take care of. That was the plan, but of course it didn't work out like that.

My mother took the dog with her to live at my parents' house. She was put in the yard with the other dog, but she kept getting out. She literally climbed the fence, and one time the dog catcher got hold of her. I had to pay nearly $50 to get her out, but I didn't care about that. What I did care about was my mother told me I had to get rid of Kira because it wasn't working out. She was through putting up with her, and having her indoors wasn't an option because she can be bad about getting into and tearing up stuff. 

I was heartbroken with this news, and I tried so hard to come with a solution; anything that would keep my dog from going back to "prison". I love her and would do anything for her. She gets special treats from Petco, lots of toys, and heartworm prevention and vet visits for her shots when needed.

My suggestions weren't winning over my mother, however, and I was still faced with giving the dog back to the Society. I felt like such a horrible person, and I prayed for a miracle. That next day after the decision had been made, I stopped over at my parents' house to say goodbye to Kira. She'd been staying inside the house ever since her last houdini stunt, and I couldn't find her anywhere and no one was home. I thought she'd been taken already, and I was denied any chance at seeing her a last time.

I called my mother asking where the dog was and she told me to look outside. I did and there Kira was tied to a long tether. A suggestion I had made the day before, but it was shot down. It turned out my mother had a change of heart, and decided to try that out afterall. It was to be a trial period at first to see if it worked, but it's become a permanent solution, especially when I ended up moving back.

It's not cruel to her either. The rope is very long and she has plenty of room to move around, do her business, etc. She's allowed to come inside along with the other, big dog, and she has free reign of the house, with a bed near the heater in a corner of the living room. When it's very cold out at night, she stays inside. She either stays in my room or my brother's room, but we can't let her out into the main house by herself, or else she'll get into stuff. So long as someone's with her, she's perfectly well behaved.

I'll never get rid of her just because she can be a problem sometimes. I'll find someway or somehow to make it work. If my life changed suddenly, and I had no option of taking her with me, I'd be devastated, but I wouldn't want to bring her into an environment where she was not wanted or happy. I'd want her to have a good home with another loving family. I'm sure, however, if that were to happen, she can still stay with my parents. My mother has grown to love her as well, and is quite fond of her. So I won't have to worry about it.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 10, 2008)

I had no idea being a vegetarian meant you were in the right here. But ok then! I've been one my whole adult life.

Moore, I said you sold your horse for slaughter. You said that people go to the sale barn to buy horses for dog food. That IS slaugher, ok? And again, you need to look at how offensive your behaviour is to many many posters here. Between this thread and your "Hey, don't feel like you have to provide vet care for your pets" you should realize your views on animals are not very welcome here.

MFDoom, this has nothing to do with animal life or whether animals are more or less important than humans. It has to do with Brit's childish and irresponsible behaviour which has been on display throughout several thread. I never said she should keep this cat, what I said was a pet is not an impulse buy and you shouldn't get one if you're not prepared to make a committment.

I will also now ask anyone who is "pro choice on the abortion issue" to refer to him or herself as a "baby sinner."


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## Aliena (Feb 10, 2008)

When I was in my young 20's, I had the most beautiful cat. I loved her so much, but one day my landlord came up to me and to said either get rid of her or I'd be evicted. This was a good kitty, she never destroyed anything or did any wrong. 
I ended up taking her to the animal shelter and I still can feel her fear, and her claws in my chest, as I handed her over to the shelter. 
I swore to myself I'd-never-do-that-again. 


My brother gave me a kitty 7-years ago and in those 7-years, I have been homeless and have had to move several times. (before I was married five years ago)

I could have easily taken her to a shelter, because of my instability, but I can never get the image of my other baby being given up so easily. 

Thank God I didn't give up my child, yes my child, because she has been there with me through thick and thin. She gave me comfort when no other human being could or would. 

Now that my life is stable and I'm a happy person, I especially take the time every day to let her know just how much she is loved and appreciated. I sing to her, I hug and kiss her, and she has her own toy box filled with toys that we play with often. 

I have a brand new living-room suit and it is plucked often by Wubby claws and mini-wub's claws. It's just a fact I accept, because kids will be kids and do what comes natural for them. I only do my best to steer their claws and interests to something other than my couch and love seat. 

I didn't want this to be a long post, but only wanted to explain my perspective on having an animal as a child. If the OP feels it necessary to give up her baby, then I'm sure it's a rough decision for her; knowing how I felt, I can only assume it's the same for her. 

At least she is willing to try and make an effort to find a home for her baby and not just toss her. I don't judge her lifes circumstances, we all have to make difficult choices here and there. If there is one lesson here for her to learn, and it's already been said by other posters, is when and if she decides to adopt again, she'll consider the future of her life and how it will effect the adoptee. 

My Wubbytubby is one of the best things ever to happen to me. I just adopted a mini-wub and look forward to all the memories to be shared by our family with him. He's a little ruly right now, but I know over time that will change. 

I took both my babies to the vet Friday and the bill was rather large, but when I think of the joy they bring me and the love, they're worth every penny I spend on their happiness and well being. 

Good luck--


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## Tooz (Feb 10, 2008)

vardon_grip said:


> I think the "gluebag" reference was a "joke". Possibly in the same way that a parent might jokingly refer to their child as a "rugrat". Lighten up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Some people ROCK at missing the point.


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## Risible (Feb 10, 2008)

Mystic Rain said:


> I must have stumbled into Hyde Park by accident. *checks forum title* No, it says The Lounge. Huh, that's strange.
> 
> I think we all need to take a breather and step back from this topic for a minute. We're getting way too worked up and emotional. Tossing insults left and right at each another is not going to help the issue, or the OP.
> 
> ...



I'm wondering if the Humane Society would have adopted out that cute little Pom-mix if they'd known she would have ended up being tethered in a backyard day in, day out instead of the apartment life that they were no doubt promised. Leaving a dog tied up is never a good idea, BTW. The rope could get tangled up and/or caught on something and the dog could choke.

I'm a dog lover. Growing up, we always had a dog. Out on my own, I went years,_ years,_ without a dog until I reached a point of stability and had an appropriate home (and apartment life for a dog isn't even close to ideal, even for a small dog, IMO) before I finally got a dog.

My point is, it isn't good enough for me to want a pet, I have to be able to give that pet a stable and loving home where my pet gets its need fulfilled (*companionship,* a soft sofa, toys, grooming, a clean environment, etc.). Going with just wanting a pet without following through on my ability to care for it properly is selfish, IMO.


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## vardon_grip (Feb 10, 2008)

Tooz said:


> Some people ROCK at missing the point.




1.Proof that I do rock! (At least I did when I was your age)
2.Not only do I not miss the point-I took a purdy picture of it!
3.Making a point while standing on a rock in Iraq. (Well, Oman-but let's not be too picky)


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## TearInYourHand (Feb 10, 2008)

Wow, this has been a crazy thread. I am honestly appalled at the views of some of you. I think that if Brit can find a responsible person to take care of her cat, that is the best situation all around. I do not believe that animals are equal in 'value' or whatever you may call it, to humans. I realize that that is a point that some of you here may just disagree with me on.

But, since I love to stir the pot,  , I must pose a few questions to those of you who have chastized Brit.

1.) Say if you had (or maybe you do have) a child, and a pet seriously injured said child, would that be enough for you to give the pet to another home? (Notice I did not say, "throw in the dumpster", I mean give the animal to another person without kids). What would you think about someone else giving a pet away for this reason? 

2.) How can you possibly be so critical if you are not a vegetarian? Seriously, I have a major problem with thinking that you can kill an animal 'humanely' for meat slaughter. If you do think that animals can be killed humanely for meat, would it be acceptable to you if people who did not want their pets for whatever reason slaughtered them, 'humanely' and ate them in a stir fry? Would that be somehow more acceptable to you than giving them to another responsible pet owner?

Sheesh. Perspective, people.


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## Aliena (Feb 10, 2008)

TearInYourHand said:


> Wow, this has been a crazy thread. I am honestly appalled at the views of some of you. I think that if Brit can find a responsible person to take care of her cat, that is the best situation all around. I do not believe that animals are equal in 'value' or whatever you may call it, to humans. I realize that that is a point that some of you here may just disagree with me on.
> 
> But, since I love to stir the pot,  , I must pose a few questions to those of you who have chastized Brit.
> 
> ...





I luv me a good burger with cheese and mushrooms. I love the taste of turkery-n-dressin', and chicken is food of the gods. But, I still consider my babies, or any othe living creature, equally worthy to the kind of care any human should receive. (regardless if they are being used for food or as a pet)

Does that make Brit a bad person for her life's circumstances and having to reconsider the position of her kitty in her life? Absolutely not. 
I wish I could say that adoption for human babies is always considered before any other form of alternative method. It's not. 

That said, it's not a question of whether an animal is equal or better than a human, because we're all animals in the interum. What is the point, for me, is the weight one puts on a life; be it human, rodent, docile kitty, or a form of reptile. 

Whatever the reasons, decisions, or outcome of Brit's delima is hers to take with her in her life. I'm sure she will consider the rewards, consequences, and yes--the inevitable responsibility of taking care of a life form that is dependent (for the most part) on her care. 

I too am a little sadden by the persona of some members here, but I don't post much to really criticize, nor do I want to, but for some reason feel a need to express how I feel regarding this thread. 

I still applaud her for taking the responsibility of returning the kitty to a) the shelter or b) a different family home, because unfortunately for most folks, they'd just leave the baby left behind and alone. 

That's my perspective and I'm sticking to it.


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## Miss Vickie (Feb 10, 2008)

I'm confused, Brit. Weren't you gonna get a dog, like two weeks ago? I totally "get" loving animals, but honey you have to get your life together before you take on any furry love sponges. Critters don't take well to unstable living environments. Just give yourself time and someday you'll have a house full of creatures, but in the meantime it's probably a good thing to stay pet free for awhile.

Hell, I'd love a house full of dogs, cats, horses but I can't have 'em because we don't own our own place and we plan on moving out of state in a year or two; plus, we live in the city. Sometimes you just... can't... have what you want, and it sucks. But since it's a goal of mine I factor it into the decisions I make, and you can do the same. Plan for a future with lots of animals, but acknowledge that your life is a little unstable now.

You can't do anything about the cat you already got and now have to get rid of. Believe me I know it's painful, and guilt-making and all that stuff. But just let that pain help you remember why you'll never get a pet again until you can plan for its future. You and I both know you'll be tempted by a pair of adorable eyes, sometime in the future and you'll want desperately to bring that animal home. Just remember how awful you feel now and you'll give that furry friend a scritch on the head and say "Someday I'll have LOTS, just like him. But not today."


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## BBW Northwest (Feb 10, 2008)

Having read through all the posts in this thread, it's interesting how some are quick to spout ideological viewpoints that simply aren't applicable for real life.


Tooz said:


> The best decision would have been THINKING ENOUGH to realise having a cat is not the best idea because you want a ~house beautiful~ apartment. A cat or dog or pet in general is ANOTHER LIFE, much like a baby. Don't take it on unless you can handle it!


Yes, hindsight is always 20/20. I'm sure Britannia went to the rescue center with every intent of giving this cat a permanent home. But when do the liabilities (damage to her home) outweigh her altruistic undertaking? It seems she made reasonable allowances and changes to her life to accommodate the cat.


Risible said:


> In this case, Brittania is giving up the cat because it's inconvenient.


Inconvenient?

I daresay damaging your apartment walls, blinds, carpet, furniture, clothing, etc. is merely "inconvenient". (I think she can forget about getting her apartment deposit back.) It seems that Brittania is giving up the cat as a final decision - and to me a sane one. Sorry, animal lovers...pets are NOT people. If they can't coexist in our living space despite repeated accommodation and training, sometimes you have to make a difficult choice to give them up for adoption at the shelter.


Risible said:


> I would argue that all pets are inconvenient. I know that pets are mere property under the eyes of the law, but for a pet owner to treat their pet like it's disposable is reprehensible to me.


I would say all pets are _not_ inconvenient. Although their care and feeding are a responsibility, most of them adapt well to domestication are well behaved and appreciative of their owners. This cat sounds like the cat from hell!


Renaissance Woman said:


> If you get a pet, you plan accordingly for the rest of that animal's life ... A pet is a living being. It's not an accessory that goes out of fashion, a temporary commitment, or something to dump as soon as it becomes inconvenient or expensive.


I think most reasonable people would agree that Britannia did not intent on making her cat a "temporary commitment", "accessory" nor is the cat's behavior merely "inconvenient". Her behavior makes cohabitation impossible! Just like people, it's very possible the events that brought the cat to the shelter left it with some deep emotional scars. It could be her way of "getting back" at her previous owner for all we know! I know there might be some people who vehemently disagree but if you've made every reasonable consideration to give the cat a loving home and it's still tearing up your home and damaging your personal property, I'm not rearranging my life and enduring expense so that an animal who obviously is not happy in my home can continue to live there.

That being said, I love cats and owned one for many years, although I'm very allergic to them.

I think some of us will have to agree to disagree on Britannia's ultimate decision; I however do not vilify her at all for doing what she decided needed to be done.


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## mossystate (Feb 10, 2008)

Sometimes, a situation has less to do with ABC's of things..and more to do with pattern/intent...just sayin.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 10, 2008)

> How can you possibly be so critical if you are not a vegetarian?



I am and have been since age 12.

And also, nobody is criticizing her for chopping the cat up for stir fry. And this argument is not about human life vs. animal life.

And as Vickie pointed out:


> I'm confused, Brit. Weren't you gonna get a dog, like two weeks ago?



First it was a puppy, then a kitty. The same time she was supposedly getting a puppy she was posting about her intention to appear on "Americas Next Top Model" and go to Brazil. In the ensuing weeks, she's posted with questions on how to unclog a toilet and stock a refrigerator. You know what? If you lack very basic life skills, you're not in a position to care for a pet. It's that simple. 

The criticism has been a lot less about the fact of giving up the cat, but the insoucience with which she obtained the cat and the attitude that "well, I'm traveling and can't take her with me anyway." If you are not ready to make a committment to an animal for its life, you don't adopt one.


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## Fascinita (Feb 10, 2008)

TearInYourHand said:


> Sheesh. Perspective, people.



Whose perspective? Yours, I gather.

There isn't anything wrong with promoting responsibility and moderation in the treatment of animals. It's not OK to say that because it's not a perfect world, we can neglect, discard, use, abuse, maim, torture and kill at our convenience. Like anyone else in any other endeavor, people who try to promote animal welfare have to pick their battles.


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## GWARrior (Feb 10, 2008)

I have nothing more to add to this thread, since my "crazy" views on animal rights have been repeated many times, but...

I went to work today and found out that one of my cute, homeless friends finally got adopted!! His name is Henry and hes a young Brittany. He went to a loving home with two parents and a little girl that absolutely adores him.

This is why I work with animals. And this is why I will ALWAYS work with animals.

:wubu:

note- yes, I work at a boarding kennel and 90% of the dogs I care for already have homes, but we work closely with rescues in our area. One of our best clients is part of the New England Brittany Rescue, and we've taken care of many dogs that get adopted through her.

eta: I also found out today that one of the dogs in the kennel is there for 2 MONTHS. his name is Max and hes a German Short-haired Pointer. His parents went down to Florida for the rest of the winter. I love the dog, but 2 months is TOO LONG!!!! Definitly not good pet-ownership, but Im happy he's with us so we can take awesome care of him.


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## Fascinita (Feb 10, 2008)

BBW Northwest said:


> Having read through all the posts in this thread, it's interesting how some are quick to spout ideological viewpoints that simply aren't applicable for real life.



Please, sir, before you lecture us on "real life," take the time to acquaint yourself with some of the players and particulars in this conversation. You're using the situation as a pulpit to hector "animal lovers" about how "pets are NOT people" and missing the heart of the matter by a long shot. The people you chastise in your post are likely more familiar with the OP's situation than you are.


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## love dubh (Feb 10, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> I had no idea being a vegetarian meant you were in the right here. But ok then! I've been one my whole adult life.
> 
> Moore, I said you sold your horse for slaughter. You said that people go to the sale barn to buy horses for dog food. That IS slaugher, ok? And again, you need to look at how offensive your behaviour is to many many posters here. Between this thread and your "Hey, don't feel like you have to provide vet care for your pets" you should realize your views on animals are not very welcome here.
> 
> ...



Conversely, anyone who is pro-life will now reference themselves as "pro-coathanger," if we want to get past the euphemisms.


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## love dubh (Feb 10, 2008)

vardon_grip said:


> I think the "gluebag" reference was a "joke". Possibly in the same way that a parent might jokingly refer to their child as a "rugrat". Lighten up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh. I see what he did there. Lulz.


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## BBW Northwest (Feb 10, 2008)

Whoa! First I realize I am a relative newbie here, but if there is more to the situation than what Brittania describes in the post that started this thread, I apologize for not being clairvoyant.

Second, I'm not "lecturing" anyone. IMHO, YMMV, FWIW... fill in your appropriate disclaimer. Take my opinion for what it's worth, or discount it altogether.

Finally, I don't think I'm alone in believing that pets are not people. Without a doubt they deserve love, compassion and respect - all of which I think this cat was afforded. How am I missing the "heart of the matter"? According to her account, this woman's life, home and property are being ruined by a cat who, despite her best efforts, won't cease its damaging behavior.

Yeah, it's a damn shame...but I don't think she is being insensitive by taking what I believe is her only logical recourse.


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## moore2me (Feb 10, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> moore2me, just a point of netiquette... Is it really necessary to use a bold font AND a red color over an entire response to try to make your point? I think eloquence wins points more aptly than screaming-red letters, don't you?



Fascinita - Does this point of netiquette just apply to me or OPs as well? I noticed you failed to address the same situation with OPs. (I'm sure this has nothing to do with whether or not they agreed with your viewpoints.) 




vardon_grip said:


> I think the "gluebag" reference was a "joke". Possibly in the same way that a parent might jokingly refer to their child as a "rugrat". Lighten up.



Vardon_grip, You are correct sir.


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## BBW Northwest (Feb 10, 2008)

Is it my imagination or did a post I made earlier just vanish? No matter...I apologize if anyone thought I was being judgmental. Just expressing my opinion.


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## AnnMarie (Feb 10, 2008)

BBW Northwest said:


> Is it my imagination or did a post I made earlier just vanish? No matter...I apologize if anyone thought I was being judgmental. Just expressing my opinion.




Being new, certain posts of yours will be subject to approval. It's there now, they have to be hand-approved and the mods have to be around/find time to get those taken care of.


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## Fascinita (Feb 10, 2008)

moore2me said:


> Fascinita - Does this point of netiquette just apply to me or OPs as well? I noticed you failed to address the same situation with OPs. (I'm sure this has nothing to do with whether or not they agreed with your viewpoints.)



I addressed myself to you because you have a habit of using huge point sizes, using bold fonts, using red and other colors, and stuffing your posts with photos to make your points. And I find it irritating when the visual volume of your posts seems to go up at every turn, without relief.

Does my irritation have something to do with my disagreeing with you and not with the OP? No, that's simply ridiculous. I don't like the OP's choices with her cat anymore than I like your invective against animals.


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## elle camino (Feb 10, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> First it was a puppy, then a kitty. The same time she was supposedly getting a puppy she was posting about her intention to appear on "Americas Next Top Model" and go to Brazil. In the ensuing weeks, she's posted with questions on how to unclog a toilet and stock a refrigerator. You know what? If you lack very basic life skills, you're not in a position to care for a pet. It's that simple.
> 
> The criticism has been a lot less about the fact of giving up the cat, but the insouciance with which she obtained the cat and the attitude that "well, I'm traveling and can't take her with me anyway." If you are not ready to make a committment to an animal for its life, you don't adopt one.



unf unf unf unf unf. 

that's me humping that post. so fucking perfect. plus an extra unf for using 'insouciance' like a champ.


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## Mystic Rain (Feb 10, 2008)

Risible said:


> I'm wondering if the Humane Society would have adopted out that cute little Pom-mix if they'd known she would have ended up being tethered in a backyard day in, day out instead of the apartment life that they were no doubt promised. Leaving a dog tied up is never a good idea, BTW. The rope could get tangled up and/or caught on something and the dog could choke.
> 
> I'm a dog lover. Growing up, we always had a dog. Out on my own, I went years,_ years,_ without a dog until I reached a point of stability and had an appropriate home (and apartment life for a dog isn't even close to ideal, even for a small dog, IMO) before I finally got a dog.
> 
> My point is, it isn't good enough for me to want a pet, I have to be able to give that pet a stable and loving home where my pet gets its need fulfilled (*companionship,* a soft sofa, toys, grooming, a clean environment, etc.). Going with just wanting a pet without following through on my ability to care for it properly is selfish, IMO.



The dog was intended for apartment living, and when I asked they indicated she could be either, but as I said, it didn't work out that way. So she was put in a nice big backyard, but she kept climbing the fence _out_ and wandering the streets where she could have gotten hurt or killed by a car. 

Keeping her tied up is the only way she can stay out of trouble, and she's been doing perfectly fine with it. But I'd like to know how you would go about handling a situation where your dog won't voluntarily stay in the yard or cannot be a house dog because she'll tear up things when she's left alone. She was two when I adopted her, almost three years old now, and certainly not a puppy.

I was more than prepared to take care of the dog when I adopted her. I thought about it for months, and planned it all out. My plans derailed, however, when all that happened in my story. Life interferes with everything whether you necessarily like it or not. Some things can be worked out, while others you will have no other choice but to consider the last resort. Would you rather put your dog/cat through emotional distress and trauma where you know they're not wanted, or would you rather give them to someone you know who can take care of them and they are happy?

The situation with my dog worked out to a happy ending, whether you might see it that way or not. There are no immediate threats around her where the rope can cause her to get tangled and pose a choking hazard, and she's adapted to it well. Half the time, she's inside the house when someone's home. So the longest points she's ever out on the leash is at night, when no one is home, or she's let out after a while to do her business. She's not out on it around the clock 24/7 as you're implying.

She's happy, playful, loved, and always has companionship, whether dog or human. Overall, I'd say her well-being is excellent.


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## TearInYourHand (Feb 10, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> I am and have been since age 12.
> 
> And also, nobody is criticizing her for chopping the cat up for stir fry. And this argument is not about human life vs. animal life.
> .



Hmmm....I'm going to start a thread about how I'm going to stir-fry my cat and see what kind of responses I get. Come on!!!!!!


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## TearInYourHand (Feb 10, 2008)

Fascinita said:


> There isn't anything wrong with promoting responsibility and moderation in the treatment of animals. It's not OK to say that because it's not a perfect world, we can *neglect, discard, use, abuse, maim, torture and kill at our convenience*. Like anyone else in any other endeavor, people who try to promote animal welfare have to pick their battles.


(emphasis mine)

Fascinita, I think that a lot of the people criticizing Brit would agree with you here. My point is, wouldn't killing/using animals for leather/food fall under "using, abusing, killing, etc. at our convenience"? I mean, many people get by without meat and leather. Do all of you critics not use these products?

Would you rather her kill her cat, and make a bag out of its hide.....or maybe grill it?


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## GWARrior (Feb 10, 2008)

how come other animals can eat meat, but humans are bad if they do?


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## IwannabeVERYfat (Feb 10, 2008)

I don't think Brit should be critisized


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## elle camino (Feb 10, 2008)

welp, i'm convinced.


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## mossystate (Feb 10, 2008)

* claps hands *

zee show, it is over..bring out the weary circus ponies


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## love dubh (Feb 10, 2008)

What? That's it? The OP needs to return, otherwise this saga is incomplete! It's like a Eugene O'Neill play.


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## TearInYourHand (Feb 10, 2008)

GWARrior said:


> how come other animals can eat meat, but humans are bad if they do?



I don't think that humans are bad if they eat meat. But, it is kind of hypocritical for some to criticize Brit for giving her cat away, and then support the slaughter of other animals as long as it is 'humane'. To me, that's bullshit.

I eat meat. I love meat! It is deee-lish. I just think that some people are being hypocritical.

Other animals certainly eat meat. I don't think they bust eachother's balls for 'mistreatment' of humans, either!


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## GWARrior (Feb 10, 2008)

TearInYourHand said:


> I don't think that humans are bad if they eat meat. But, it is kind of hypocritical for some to criticize Brit for giving her cat away, and then support the slaughter of other animals as long as it is 'humane'. To me, that's bullshit.
> 
> I eat meat. I love meat! It is deee-lish. I just think that some people are being hypocritical.
> 
> Other animals certainly eat meat. I don't think they bust eachother's balls for 'mistreatment' of humans, either!



we're not criticizing her for giving her cat away. we're criticizing her for getting it in the first place.

i kinda thought that was obvious.


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## TearInYourHand (Feb 10, 2008)

GWARrior said:


> we're not criticizing her for giving her cat away. we're criticizing her for getting it in the first place.
> 
> i kinda thought that was obvious.



You're kinda missing my point. Why is it bad to get a cat as a pet, and give it away to a loving home (assuming that's what Brit'll do), but it is OK to buy bacon at the grocery store, which was raised to be slaughtered?

What did you have for dinner last night, by the way?


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## GWARrior (Feb 10, 2008)

TearInYourHand said:


> You're kinda missing my point. Why is it bad to get a cat as a pet, and give it away to a loving home (assuming that's what Brit'll do), but it is OK to buy bacon at the grocery store, which was raised to be slaughtered?
> 
> What did you have for dinner last night, by the way?



i honestly dont see how you're connecting the two. Pet-ownership vs. meat-eating? 

and my dinner is none of your concern.


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## TearInYourHand (Feb 10, 2008)

GWARrior said:


> i honestly dont see how you're connecting the two. Pet-ownership vs. meat-eating?



Really? Seriously? Loving animals as partners.....and then killing and eating them.....if you don't see a disconnect...well I can't help you there.



GWARrior said:


> and my dinner is none of your concern.



So, I'm guessing you had a BLT. They're fabulous! Or maybe you grilled one of your dogs?


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## GWARrior (Feb 11, 2008)

TearInYourHand said:


> Really? Seriously? Loving animals as partners.....and then killing and eating them.....



Generally, people dont kill their house pets for food. The cow I had for dinner wasnt my pet. The pig I had with breakfast wasnt my pet.

In other countries the cat or dog could be dinner. And some people have cows and pigs as pets.

I am an animal. Animals eat animals. Therefore, I eat animals.


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## Miss Vickie (Feb 11, 2008)

GWARrior said:


> how come other animals can eat meat, but humans are bad if they do?



Trying to stay clear of the "if you love animals you should be a vegetarian" debate, but.... I suppose the difference is that lions don't keep other animals as pets. Their relationships with other animals is pretty clear -- they eat them. Humans are kind of unique I think in that we both EAT and KEEP animals. 

Depending on where you live, a dog will be a pet (like here in the US) or food (certain parts of Asia). It gets really interesting (and by that I mean frustrating as fuck) when you have what is considered a livestock animal as a pet. I've kept rabbits for more than ten years and I live in prime hunting country. Some of my acquaintances and friends, upon hearing this, often love to make comments like "mmmmm, Hassenfeffer" and laugh like it's the funniest thing on the planet. So I've started making comments about dog kebabs when they do that -- and some of them get my point. But only some. The rest say I'm too sensitive, but only after acting horrified about the very idea of eating a family pet. Touche.


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## TearInYourHand (Feb 11, 2008)

Thanks, Vickie. I feel that you said what I was trying to all along. True, Gwar, animals eat other animals all the time. But lions don't try to pretend that they hold a respect for all animal life...they have their mouths too full with antelope.

I don't really think that we should argue this anymore, it is pretty clear that you don't see my point, or maybe you're just being stubborn. Anyways, cheers.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 11, 2008)

elle camino said:


> unf unf unf unf unf.
> 
> that's me humping that post. so fucking perfect. plus an extra unf for using 'insouciance' like a champ.



Thank you.

:blush:


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Feb 11, 2008)

Saying that animals don't raise other animals as their own isn't complete true. There are thousands of cases of adult animals (wild and domesticated) adopting and raising other species babies. Dogs wil raise other species babies if they all ready have a litter and they find or are given an abandoned animal baby. What about Coco the sign language using Gorilla who was given a kitten and calls it her baby?? Cats will raise mice if they are introduced to the cats litter.

So it does happen. Just like in humans.


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## GWARrior (Feb 11, 2008)

very good points Sandie.

So I guess all of you vegetarians dont own pets... cause you'd be hypocrits yourselves. and not very convincing ones at that.


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## Miss Vickie (Feb 11, 2008)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Saying that animals don't raise other animals as their own isn't complete true. There are thousands of cases of adult animals (wild and domesticated) adopting and raising other species babies. Dogs wil raise other species babies if they all ready have a litter and they find or are given an abandoned animal baby. What about Coco the sign language using Gorilla who was given a kitten and calls it her baby?? Cats will raise mice if they are introduced to the cats litter.
> 
> So it does happen. Just like in humans.



It's the exception, not the rule, though, isn't it? And Coco? Didn't go get the pet on her own. Her human keepers gave it to her... 'cause she lives in captivity. So it seems that a lot of her behavior would unfortunately be interesting but not representative of her species because of her close proximity to humans.

But the idea of wild animals keeping other animals as pets is an interesting one. I wonder how often it truly happen (really? thousands? that sounds like a lot), or is it one of those "moose fell in love with a dog" kind of experiences. Thousands sounds like a lot but is it thousands over hundreds of years of keeping track over how many species on earth? Depends, I suppose. 

Whether or not animals as a rule keep other animals as pets, the fact that we do creates this kind of weirdness in us about our relationship to other animals. Are they pets? Or food? Or in some cases, both? And how does one accept that? I know people raised on farms who were devastated when they had to eat the family pig that was kept as a pet.

I think in general our relationship with animals is a complicated one, and each of us has our own limits as to what we'll do. Some will buy animals from anywhere. An endangered parrot stolen from South America? Heh, no problem! I'll buy it! Pit bull from a puppy mill? Bring it on! Others won't adopt ANY pedigreed animal, and will only get animals from shelters. Some (a lot of PETA folks) won't keep pets at ALL. I think most of us just want what's best for animals, while feeling good about our choices. 

I feel badly for Brit, 'cause I know this hurts. My only hope is that it'll motivate her to be more careful in the future. She's young, and we all make mistakes, particularly when we don't have a lot of life experience. But this is how you get it. I just hope the kitty doesn't pay the price as well.  It all depends on where it ends up.



GWARrior said:


> very good points Sandie.
> 
> So I guess all of you vegetarians dont own pets... cause you'd be hypocrits yourselves. and not very convincing ones at that.



Like I said, I think our relationship with animals is complicated. I don't know how anyone could eat any animal of a species they kept as a pet but I know lots of people who do it. It's probably been done by humans since we started keeping pets (and there's data to support this has gone on for a very long time in human evolution, much further back than we'd think). 

In my own case, I eat meat because I'm an omnivore and my body needs it. However, I still feel guilty about it because I love animals and it makes me feel sad that an animal suffered to feed me. I wish it weren't necessary but in my own case (and I think in most people's cases) we need animal products to thrive.

Don't you feel bad that an animal suffered to feed you? It doesn't mean you don't still eat meat (because in addition to needing it, hell yeah, it tastes good), but can't we be aware that an animal suffered and ... just kind of, I don't know... I guess just acknowledge it.


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## LalaCity (Feb 11, 2008)

I confess I didn't read this whole thread -- I read your initial post then skipped to the last page and saw that the conversation had somehow devolved into a discussion about eating one's pets, or something...

My advice: we've all had to give away beloved critters for one reason or another -- don't beat yourself up over it. The best thing to do is find kitty a loving home -- preferably with a trusted friend so that you can visit and bring treats, etc. But if that isn't possible, there are good rescue organizations (no-kill shelters are a must) that will place your pet. It hurts a lot, I know, but maybe it's for the best. Cats are adaptable -- Kitty will be just fine.


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## Jes (Feb 11, 2008)

vardon_grip said:


> 1.Proof that I do rock! (At least I did when I was your age)
> 2.Not only do I not miss the point-I took a purdy picture of it!
> 3.Making a point while standing on a rock in Iraq. (Well, Oman-but let's not be too picky)


that's so crazy! you and I could be twins.

to talk about the topic at hand:
I think one of the issues here is that Britannia is young. Very young. Remember being 18? And she's a sharer. She shares a lot of personal stuff. She comes to the webboard, and she shares personal stuff and, I think, wants us to validate her, or advise her or hear her...I'm not sure what she'd say she wants, and she's welcome to correct me if I'm wrong, if she's still reading. So really, she's young and she is telling people she doesn't know, online, the sorts of things she should probably be telling a close friend, a parent or a mentor. Or a school teacher. No matter what the post is about, maybe Dimensions, for size acceptance and fat people (and whatnot) isn't the place to post all of your personal bidness for people who probably won't tell you what you want to hear and/or who can't really advise you (some of us have struggled with addiction I'm sure but none of us can really help you with your cat, or get you to stop abusing cocaine. it's just the web. It's not PETA and it's not Betty Ford).

Moving on to an axe I like to grind: the people who litter CList with posts about how they need to find a home for their very sweet well trained (really? then why can't he stay with you?) dog/cat/bird/iguana becasue they're finally having a baby, and really, they'll be too busy to give the animal attention and it's so hard, with a new baby and i'msureyounkowwhatImean and all of that.

And I'm always tempted to write them and say: Really? Ok. But let me ask: when you have your 2nd child, will you be posting an ad here on CList to try to find a home for ole number 1?? Ole number 1 is sweet and well trained but you know, we're having a 2nd, and we'll be too busy to give no. 1 attention and it's so hard, with a new baby and all....

And Lala (above): i've never had to give away a pet. It's possible that in some situation, I might, but I seriously doubt it. It sounds to me like many people here haven't done so, either.


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## LalaCity (Feb 11, 2008)

Jes said:


> And Lala (above): i've never had to give away a pet. It's possible that in some situation, I might, but I seriously doubt it. It sounds to me like many people here haven't done so, either.



Sorry, rather I should have worded it, "many of us have had to give away a pet."

I had to do it when I moved overseas, for instance -- I don't know about nowadays, but back in the mid '90's pets had to be quarantined for, I don't know, six months, or something like that. I just couldn't do that to my pooch! I hope the laws have changed since then.

Edited to say: I rescued a cat (literally) from the streets once and spent many months getting her back into the pink of health -- she was a darling little kitty but I was not able to keep her so I gave her to a friend and she did superbly well. She was not 'emotionally traumatised' or any such thing -- the family loves her to death and she lives like a princess. Having read more of the thread, and with all due respect to the forumites who feel it a grave sin to give away a pet, I'm a touch irritated by the histrionic nature of some of the replies and the rush to judgment -- this is sadly not a situation that is working out for Britannia -- who's being demonized to a ridiculous degree by some here -- and the cat may very well be much better suited to a different home and a different owner -- the key is to be diligent in finding the right situation and following up to make sure it works out.


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## Miss Vickie (Feb 11, 2008)

Jes said:


> It sounds to me like many people here haven't done so, either.



In the interest of full disclosure: I had to give up a dog once -- my beloved Newfie, Sophie -- and it about killed me. My kids were little, Burt and I had just gotten together, we were so poor we could barely feed ourselves and being a pure breed dog she had special nutritional needs. I couldn't just get dog food from the food bank (I tried -- she got sick). To add to it, our life was totally unstable, I was really depressed, going through a divorce, and unable to cope with much of anything, let alone a dog that needed constant brushing, walking, etc. 

When my (now ex) and I got her, we had planned on being together forever. had tons of money, and it seemed like a good idea at the time. But yeah, life circumstances change, don't they?  We tried every way we could think of to keep her but couldn't. My ex had moved into an apartment and didn't want to/couldn't keep her. So after networking with some friends, I found her a place on a farm in rural Washington state, which was probably the best thing for her, given her size and need for exercise. But it broke my heart, my kids' hearts, and Burt still gets upset about it. It took a lot for me to convince him to let me get another dog, just because of that.

So, live and learn, I suppose.


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## Jes (Feb 11, 2008)

it happens. i get that. i think what's frustrating is when it happens through absolute lack of planning or critical thinking. 

If the cat was actually adopted, Brit, you needed to be 18, right? So it was adopted w/in the year, right? That sounds like maybe it wasn't well thought out on your part, if I can give you my opinion. 

Anyway, considering all the chatter we've had about it, is the cat at least fat?


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Feb 11, 2008)

Jes said:


> I'm sure but none of us can really help you with your cat, or get you to stop abusing cocaine.



I wasted years on our friendship then if you can't help me with either, but you're welcome to come over and play with the cat and do a few rails with me.

Jes, I think we're on the same page here. Brit needs to be heard. 

It's not that giving up the cat is a bad decision. It's just a bad foot to start off on in adulthood, that we can abandon responsibility when "something better" comes along.

"Something better" will always come along. A trip to Brazil over a destructive cat. A more attractive man over the current boyfriend. That shit happens. 

And, Brit, what you're missing is that we choose less traditionally appealing things because of intangible value. I'd cancel my upcoming vacation for my cat, and I can't quite explain why. On an overwhelmingly serious note, I think there are huge spiritual implications to choosing materialism over love. Do what you will, but don't let it be a pattern for your life.


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## Surlysomething (Feb 11, 2008)

Jes said:


> Anyway, considering all the chatter we've had about it, is the cat at least fat?





Good one


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## vardon_grip (Feb 11, 2008)

Jes said:


> that's so crazy! you and I could be twins.



We ARE twins!!!!!

(btw- tomorrow i get to be jayna)


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## vardon_grip (Feb 12, 2008)

Jes said:


> that's so crazy! you and I could be twins.



or maybe this?


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## Jes (Feb 13, 2008)

vardon_grip said:


> or maybe this?



GREAT SUCCESS.

what's the deal with the Vet, though? Are you suggesting Nelson men look like Afghan hounds?
http://www.nextdaypets.com/directory/breeds/images/1100002.jpg

you know who totally looks like one? FABIO!
http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Events/1924/Fabio_Grani_873457_400.jpg


anyway, we need to stop messing up this thread, VG. I've been told no one likes it when I make jokes at the Dims. tsk tsk.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 14, 2008)

Jes said:


> GREAT SUCCESS.
> 
> what's the deal with the Vet, though? Are you suggesting Nelson men look like Afghan hounds?
> http://www.nextdaypets.com/directory/breeds/images/1100002.jpg
> ...



It's not about jokes. It's about derailing threads for no other reason than trying to draw attention to yourself. We GET that you think you're funny, and we GET that you think reading your posts is preferable to continuing a discussion we were having, but you're wrong.


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## Aliena (Feb 14, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> It's not about jokes. It's about derailing threads for no other reason than trying to draw attention to yourself. We GET that you think you're funny, and we GET that you think reading your posts is preferable to continuing a discussion we were having, but you're wrong.



Oh yes that's right, we'd rather have this thread continue with discussions slamming other posters of their regard on the subject. 

How dare Jes come in here and try to lighten up the topic with her selfish look at me attitude. HOW DARE SHE!!!


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## Jes (Feb 14, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> It's not about jokes. It's about derailing threads for no other reason than trying to draw attention to yourself. We GET that you think you're funny, and we GET that you think reading your posts is preferable to continuing a discussion we were having, but you're wrong.



Look, I tried getting the show back on the road by asking if the cat was fat, but no reply so far. 

Why not put me on ignore? I think it'd be for the best, from what you've posted here. No harm, no foul--I'm cool with it! 
 
And how did ole VardonGrip get off scott free? I want blood!


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 14, 2008)

It's not about slamming other posters.

The point of this thread was not to slam others, but it did become about discussing the importance of pets and committment to them.

Jes did not come in to save the thread or head off people slamming each other.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 14, 2008)

Jes said:


> Look, I tried getting the show back on the road by asking if the cat was fat, but no reply so far.
> 
> Why not put me on ignore? I think it'd be for the best, from what you've posted here. No harm, no foul--I'm cool with it!
> 
> And how did ole VardonGrip get off scott free? I want blood!



Here's a better idea.

Instead of hijacking so many threads on this board with your brand of "humor" and then insisting people put you on ignore, why not stop doing it?

You know full well when your comments are unwelcome. You understand that nobody on this thread was interested in talking about the cat's weight.

It seem your prime purpose on Dims is to get attention. And that's fine. We all need to feel loved and admired. But don't get resentful if you get called out on it.


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## Aliena (Feb 14, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> It's not about slamming other posters.
> 
> The point of this thread was not to slam others, but it did become about discussing the importance of pets and committment to them.
> 
> Jes did not come in to save the thread or head off people slamming each other.




I suppose it's a matter of perception. Truly. 



Jes said:


> And how did ole VardonGrip get off scott free? I want blood!



Jes, you should be careful showing you vampiric ways! The sun is m'love!


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## Jes (Feb 14, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Here's a better idea.
> 
> Instead of hijacking so many threads on this board with your brand of "humor" and then insisting people put you on ignore, why not stop doing it?
> 
> ...



do you want to take this off the board, so that it doesn't get in the way of the cat situation? i invite you to do so. I would say that as many people like my humor as don't, and I'm ok with that, and as you say, I'm not blind to the fact that not everyone gets it or likes it. That may be the difference, here, and you're certainly welcome to your opinion. But I can't be who I'm not, and I like who I am, so I gotta be me. If my prime purpose here is to get attention, then... You know? Anyway, PM me. We'll duke it out there.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 14, 2008)

Jes said:


> do you want to take this off the board, so that it doesn't get in the way of the cat situation? i invite you to do so. I would say that as many people like my humor as don't, and I'm ok with that, and as you say, I'm not blind to the fact that not everyone gets it or likes it. That may be the difference, here, and you're certainly welcome to your opinion. But I can't be who I'm not, and I like who I am, so I gotta be me. If my prime purpose here is to get attention, then... You know? Anyway, PM me. We'll duke it out there.



1. Everyone gets it.

2. The fact that most of us realize you inject it where it's not welcome has nothing to do with getting it. 

3. It's not about you 'being who you are', it's about you inserting yourself in thread after thread and hijacking/derailing discussions.


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## Jes (Feb 14, 2008)

Can you accept that it won't change? 

Look, people here drive me nutso, too. Absolutely. And you get very wrapped up in it, and you ball up your fists and you think: what on earth is driving that person? that's insane!! how dare he/she!

but then I step back and I think: well, it's a webboard open to anyone who doesn't break the rules. Just like the real world, I like some people, I dislike some people, I think some people are borderline nuts, I think some people are really fantastic. And you try to live inside of that, in whatever way you can do so comfortably, without changing too much of who you are, and without getting too angry about people you don't really know who don't really...touch your personal life, if you see what I mean. 

And when you can't do that, when there's no chance of a good fit, you put that person on ignore (or, certainly, you bail altogether). And it feels good and it feels right. I don't insist (not my terminology) that anyone put me on ignore, but if this is my behavior, for good, for bad, for anything else, then you getting mad at it or being outraged and saying so probably isn't going to change it because i'm not trying to DO something TO you. I'm just being me. I think being angry at someone who points something specific at you is one thing, but not liking someone's overall behavior means a lot of wheel spinning, I think.

And I've done it myself. When certain personality traits make me crazy in the head, I'm not always good at realizing it's me, not the trait owner. I'm not always good at saying: Step back. You don't understand certain values or opinions or pronoucements, but that doesn't mean they won't still exist, even if you get angry and point them out. So, I've tried taking my own advice (with a few stumbles off that wagon, to be sure, it's a process) and it really has been ...liberating. Some styles are never going to gel. But if someone isn't breaking the rules and is comfortable with his or her behavior, that's just how it's going to stay. 

So, really, if you want to contact me to talk about it, please do. I don't know if I can say anything else that will take this boil to a simmer, but we can certainly try, Loves.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 14, 2008)

It's not your behaviour that is inapproapriate.

It's everyone else's reaction to it.

Keep telling yourself that.

I'm sure you believe it anyway.


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## Aliena (Feb 14, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> It's not your behaviour that is inapproapriate.
> 
> It's everyone else's reaction to it.
> 
> ...



I think Jes isbeing reasonable. You, I believe to be unreasonable. I'm curious though, where do you see your responsibility in this situation?


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## Jes (Feb 14, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> It's not your behaviour that is inapproapriate.
> 
> It's everyone else's reaction to it.
> 
> ...



I think we're speaking at cross purposes here, Loves.

Is it worth it to keep fighting against something that probably won't change? If you want to tell me you don't like my behavior, then you've done that. I've read it. We've all read it. I see it, and I hear it. I have no doubt other people agree with you. I get that. 

But if you read my posts and then you get angry at ...how I comport myself, let's say, if you think: my god, that woman is horrible!: but I'm not likely to change that, then I'm not sure ...how satisfying that's likely to be, for you, I guess is my point. 

I'm not putting any value on my behavior or yours. I'm not saying I"m right and you're wrong. I think every single member at Dims has been and can be right and wrong (sometimes at the very same time!). And certainly, I have made the very same mistake I'm talking about here, myself. You and I have vehemently agreed before, so we clearly have a few areas in which we can connect. 

Look, I'll take the plunge with the ignore. haha. We can give this thread back to Britannia and her decision about her cat, which I did try to address earlier. I hope she can find some peace with it and I hope the cat ends up in the best possible place. 

And a shoutout to a certain 'just turned 13!' kitty I know very well. Teenager!


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## Aliena (Feb 14, 2008)

Will someone please pay attention to me???!!!
View attachment fat-cat.jpg


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 14, 2008)

Aliena said:


> I think Jes isbeing reasonable. You, I believe to be unreasonable. I'm curious though, where do you see your responsibility in this situation?



There is no situation.

Go ahead and believe what you want. Why not follow Jes's suggestion and put me on ignore?


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## Jes (Feb 14, 2008)

[awww, man! awesome. and the black stripes under the eyes look like he plays in the NFL]

Anyway, let's smile and be happy for the kitties we've got.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 14, 2008)

Whatevs, Jes.

(I guess I can write what I want since she has me on ignore.)


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## Aliena (Feb 14, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> There is no situation.
> 
> Go ahead and believe what you want. Why not follow Jes's suggestion and put me on ignore?



It takes a lot for me to put someone on ignore. You haven't qualified with your rhetoric to be put on ignore; I find it quite amusing actually. 

Besides, you seem to be the only one to have a problem here. I fail to understand your desire to bait people into arguments with you. Suffice to say you're just bored today and have zeroed in on anyone and everyone.


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## vardon_grip (Feb 15, 2008)

Instead of hijacking so many threads on this board with your brand of "humor" and then insisting people put you on ignore, why not stop doing it?
You know full well when your comments are unwelcome. You understand that nobody on this thread was interested in talking about the cat's weight.
It seem your prime purpose on Dims is to get attention. And that's fine. We all need to feel loved and admired. But don't get resentful if you get called out on it.

First off...I have not died and made you queen, so stop acting like it! Secondly, I happen to LOVE Jes' brand of humor. I ask for it by name.

Why do you care so damned much what twists and turns a thread takes? Why do you care about derailing and hijacking threads so much? Why have you made it your crusade to keep everyone in line to the theme of this thread? You are an advocate. Goody for you, but so what? This is a public forum and it is called "Dimensions" not "LoveBMHS Board-Post only if you stay on topic and do only as I do". You have over 1,500 posts, so don't accuse anyone of wanting attention. If you didn't want attention so much, you wouldn't post so regularly or at all. And so what? Who cares? You get to spout your rhetoric, why can't anyone else?

By not allowing anyone to say whatever they want to say, you are being a bully. So please stop it. You don't have to agree with it, but stop telling people to not say what they want to just because you don't like it. 
Moore, you really really need to look at how over the top offensive your posts are. Even if you want to use the term "gluebag", once you've seen that four posters on a single page are offended, you stop fucking using that term. We're not talking about a difference of opinion.
Who the hell are you to order anyone around? Be offended if that's what twists your panties, but where do you get off using that type of language towards another poster? You and people like you need to lighten up! BTW, the "gluebag" reference was a joke. It was "obvious" you didn't "get" it. 

You tell a lot of people in your posts how they don't get the point.
You say in this thread that "It's not about jokes. It's about derailing threads for no other reason than trying to draw attention to yourself.

In the thread Happy Harpy Hour (aka The View) Hyde Park you are a participant in a thread that was "derailed" (posts #49-55) and yet you didn't bring the axe down on the ones responsible. Also in the thread May I Have a Second of Your Time Please? you were a perpetrator of derailment.
If you are the derail police chief, why such gross malfeasance? (unf,unf,unf and one unf to grow on)

If you are SOOOOOOO good at knowing what the point is...what is the point I am trying make?


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## Red (Feb 15, 2008)

vardon_grip said:


> First off...I have not died and made you queen, so stop acting like it! Secondly, I happen to LOVE Jes' brand of humor. I ask for it by name.




Yup, if she could bottle it, stick a cork in it and sell it on Ebay, I'd buy it. And that says a lot because, y'know, what with all the postage and customs charges, it wouldn't be cheap.


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## Tooz (Feb 15, 2008)

TearInYourHand said:


> But lions don't try to pretend that they hold a respect for all animal life



Gee, I didn't know that respect meant not eating it. I can respect animal life and still consume meat that came from an animal that wasn't tortured. I am sorry, but the whole "YOU CAN'T EAT ANIMALS UNLESS YOU WANNA BE A HYPOCRITE" thing is ridiculous.


Furthermore, I find it quite amusing that the OP really hasn't come back to defend herself, and has now moved on to making other threads.


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## LisaInNC (Feb 15, 2008)

vardon_grip said:


> First off...I have not died and made you queen, so stop acting like it! Secondly, I happen to LOVE Jes' brand of humor. I ask for it by name.


I love Jes's humor as well! (and yours :wubu

Lovebhm, not everyone wants to spend their entire day bogged down in misery, so jokes are welcome. Its very simple...if you dont like Jes' posts then dont read them. Stop trying to speak for everyone...cause I can assure you that most people think YOU are the problem on this thread.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 15, 2008)

Tooz said:


> Gee, I didn't know that respect meant not eating it. I can respect animal life and still consume meat that came from an animal that wasn't tortured. I am sorry, but the whole "YOU CAN'T EAT ANIMALS UNLESS YOU WANNA BE A HYPOCRITE" thing is ridiculous.
> 
> 
> Furthermore, I find it quite amusing that the OP really hasn't come back to defend herself, and has now moved on to making other threads.



She has to know she was in the wrong. What could she defend?


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## Tooz (Feb 15, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> She has to know she was in the wrong. What could she defend?



True, but she could at least say SOMETHING.


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## bexy (Feb 15, 2008)

Tooz said:


> Furthermore, I find it quite amusing that the OP really hasn't come back to defend herself, and has now moved on to making other threads.



*yes, and said threads are talking about her smoking, and am i wrong or can tobacco smoke not damage precious paintings, and cause stains and bad smells? *coughs double standard coughs**


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## activistfatgirl (Feb 15, 2008)

You know, I don't care what anyone thinks about the particulars, I don't think the OP needs to respond to anyone here. I don't think it's cool on any level to bring up other posts a poster has made and to have open conversations about how that impacts this question on this post. Continuing to do so creates a dynamic that makes me very uncomfortable. Would any one of us want to be that person that everyone's saying "she says THIS here and THAT there, and it's all so hypocritical."

I really wouldn't. I'd want people concerned to PM me. 

I think Jes said this best during the related/not related tift here. If you don't like someone, ignore them. Either by avoiding a thread or by literally putting them on ignore.

I don't understand why people say the things they do here. Would you do this in real life? If so...good, you're being authentic. If you wouldn't, then don't do it online either. This applies to this thread, and others the OP has posted.

People will not change because we berate. People have sounded off their opinions on the original question, isn't that enough?


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## furious styles (Feb 15, 2008)

activistfatgirl said:


> You know, I don't care what anyone thinks about the particulars, I don't think the OP needs to respond to anyone here. I don't think it's cool on any level to bring up other posts a poster has made and to have open conversations about how that impacts this question on this post. Continuing to do so creates a dynamic that makes me very uncomfortable. Would any one of us want to be that person that everyone's saying "she says THIS here and THAT there, and it's all so hypocritical."
> 
> I really wouldn't. I'd want people concerned to PM me.
> 
> ...



Due to her not responding they're not sure if they've made her feel like shit enough yet. This is diet Hyde Park people! We have to crush the entire spirit; winning an argument simply won't do!

This person _annoys_ them. They see her post and think "Oh god .. there's that stupid girl posting another thread. How dare she act so mature when she really isn't. How dare she think she's such a hipster. How dare she troll for sympathy and for compliments." Mmm so the natural process leads to "Let's embarrass her! Let's make HER feel like the dumb one! If I can get enough people on my side, then I won't look like an ass!" Flawless logic, of course. You can bring out all the different things you've learned to hate about her. All those threads where you've thought "Oooooooh I should really say something but no, I'm to good for that" and you've saved it all up for the opportune time.

It's the internet; serious business. We can bash and hate and there's no repercussion! It's wonderful really, because precious few of us would ever try something like that in _real_ life. So we throw stones and we paint the villain when we feel as though we're safe. Standing in our high towers we can point the finger and judge, because who's going to do anything about it? No one, that's who. It's our opinion and that's all there is too it.


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## Tooz (Feb 15, 2008)

Drama tastes really good with oregano sprinkled on it. *shrug*

ETA: What I said WAS relevant, re: the smoking thread, as Bexy pointed out. Maybe I should be more blunt.


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## Upstate New York Foodee (Feb 15, 2008)

I read this whole thing front to back. I too remember that backyard breeder chihuahua post and the war that caused. I DO think that in this case pointing out the poster's past threads is relevant, because after "she just had to have a chihuahua because despite only being 18 she is oh so responsible", now the truth rears it's ugly head. Who ends up suffering? The animals do. So I find it quite appropriate for those of us who have read the original chihuahua drama thread to cry foul here.

I don't really feel like debating this point, because it's a dead horse(no pun intended) at this time, but I will say that everything LovesBHMS said is 100% on point. 

"OH NOES WE ARE ALL BAD PEOPLE WHO MUST OBVIOUSLY BE BORED AND HAVE NUTTIN TO DO BCUZ WE ARE CALLING SOMEONE ON OUT ON BEING AN IMMATURE INDIVIDUAL"

Sorry, life is not about holding hands and singing kumbaya. Frankly the OP doesn't deserve to be comforted and be told that it's okay and she has to do what she has to do.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 15, 2008)

Upstate New York Foodee said:


> I read this whole thing front to back. I too remember that backyard breeder chihuahua post and the war that caused. I DO think that in this case pointing out the poster's past threads is relevant, because after "she just had to have a chihuahua because despite only being 18 she is oh so responsible", now the truth rears it's ugly head. Who ends up suffering? The animals do. So I find it quite appropriate for those of us who have read the original chihuahua drama thread to cry foul here.
> 
> I don't really feel like debating this point, because it's a dead horse(no pun intended) at this time, but I will say that everything LovesBHMS said is 100% on point.
> 
> ...



thank you.

:wubu:


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## Waxwing (Feb 15, 2008)

Upstate New York Foodee said:


> I read this whole thing front to back. I too remember that backyard breeder chihuahua post and the war that caused. I DO think that in this case pointing out the poster's past threads is relevant, because after "she just had to have a chihuahua because despite only being 18 she is oh so responsible", now the truth rears it's ugly head. Who ends up suffering? The animals do. So I find it quite appropriate for those of us who have read the original chihuahua drama thread to cry foul here.
> 
> I don't really feel like debating this point, because it's a dead horse(no pun intended) at this time, but I will say that everything LovesBHMS said is 100% on point.
> 
> ...



QFT

(and becuase i'm too lazy to write anything of my own.)


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 15, 2008)

Tooz said:


> Drama tastes really good with oregano sprinkled on it. *shrug*
> 
> ETA: What I said WAS relevant, re: the smoking thread, as Bexy pointed out. Maybe I should be more blunt.



1. It was.

2. You should.

It's not about drama, and it's not about being *mean* to the OP. It's about Tooz and others feeling as if the OP did a pretty rotten thing (as far as the cat) and then turning that into a personal attack when anyone said "Hey, your behaviour sucked."


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## activistfatgirl (Feb 15, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> It's not about drama, and it's not about being *mean* to the OP. It's about Tooz and others feeling as if the OP did a pretty rotten thing (as far as the cat) and then turning that into a personal attack when anyone said "Hey, your behaviour sucked."



Love, I don't even disagree about the meat of the issue (i.e. proper cat responsibility). I read the thread similarly. My point is more about how a reaction to that is handled. Everyone has obviously had a chance to speak their point, and I'm just not convinced a principled stand on this issue moves forward by continued posts to OP about her behavior here and elsewhere in a continued frenzy with a "HOW DARE YOU DO THIS AND THEN POST ABOUT OTHER THINGS?" angle. Your message has been sent, what is done with it is up to her. 

I just can't believe you wouldn't at least acknowledge that these things are tricky online and that someone (like me) wanting to say they're uncomfortable with the way this thread is being handled equates to saying that we want a "kumbaya" experience and that OP shouldn't take responsibility. That's mixing issues.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 15, 2008)

activistfatgirl said:


> Love, I don't even disagree about the meat of the issue (i.e. proper cat responsibility). I read the thread similarly. My point is more about how a reaction to that is handled. Everyone has obviously had a chance to speak their point, and I'm just not convinced a principled stand on this issue moves forward by continued posts to OP about her behavior here and elsewhere in a continued frenzy with a "HOW DARE YOU DO THIS AND THEN POST ABOUT OTHER THINGS?" angle. Your message has been sent, what is done with it is up to her.
> 
> I just can't believe you wouldn't at least acknowledge that these things are tricky online and that someone (like me) wanting to say they're uncomfortable with the way this thread is being handled equates to saying that we want a "kumbaya" experience and that OP shouldn't take responsibility. That's mixing issues.



I was not the one that used the term kumbaya. That having been said, if somebody puts herself out online, she needs to expect that anyone who reads what she says is going to react. It would be all well and good to take this and turn it into "ok...what she did was wrong but the animal rights nutjobs were *really* wrong in what they had to say."

Posts on a message board are not going to exist in a vacuum. If I posted on the clothing board about buying a new fur coat and then came to this thread and postured about animal rights, i'd expect to be called out on it.


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## bexy (Feb 15, 2008)

*the thing is posts do cross over. you cant say something in one post, then contradict it in another. i felt what i said was relevant as the OP said one of her reasons for gettting rid of the cat was due to damage of her property, but she is doing something herself that can also damage her property. thats her right, its her home. i'm not saying she should quit, or judging her for smoking, just saying i wouldnt use the damaging of property as a reason for getting rid of her cat when it is fairly obvious to anyone who has ever owned a pet that this is pretty much a pre-requisite.

i have nothing against the OP i do not know her. however i call things as i see them and reply as i see fit. you dont post questions or ask for opinions if you cant take the good with the bad.

anyone who reads my posts knows i am never harsh or confrontational, but i am honest both online and IRL. if this was my friend i would be telling them the exact same opinions.*


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## bexy (Feb 15, 2008)

mfdoom said:


> This person _annoys_ them. They see her post and think "Oh god .. there's that stupid girl posting another thread. How dare she act so mature when she really isn't. How dare she think she's such a hipster. How dare she troll for sympathy and for compliments." Mmm so the natural process leads to "Let's embarrass her! Let's make HER feel like the dumb one! If I can get enough people on my side, then I won't look like an ass!" Flawless logic, of course. You can bring out all the different things you've learned to hate about her. All those threads where you've thought "Oooooooh I should really say something but no, I'm to good for that" and you've saved it all up for the opportune time.


*
lets get this straight, please dont assume anything about me. dont assume that i dislike anyone, or think anyone is stupid. 

i have enjoyed some of the OPs threads, commented on them, commented on her pics. what the heck has brit being "a hipster" got to do with any of this? kudos to her if she is indeed a "hipster", i dont even know what one is to hate on it....i am guessing its to do with her style and if you would take the time to look at the profiles of you who are addressing rather than be generic you would see i dont exactly look like a 60 yr old librarian...

i take each post as i see it. simple as. i think the OP should not have got a cat, nor give it up so easily. if i was in this position i would not post about it online unless i was prepared to get bad comments along with the good. thats my thought process.
i dont know the OP and have better things to do with my time than keep notes on a poster only to save them all up for one huge online bashing. i am stating my opinions. i am not name calling, bashing, hating or any of those things you suggested. i felt bringing another post into this was relevant, it isnt feasible to post contradictory ideas in different threads. *


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## Tooz (Feb 15, 2008)

bexylicious said:


> *
> lets get this straight, please dont assume anything about me. dont assume that i dislike anyone, or think anyone is stupid.
> 
> i have enjoyed some of the OPs threads, commented on them, commented on her pics. what the heck has brit being "a hipster" got to do with any of this? kudos to her if she is indeed a "hipster", i dont even know what one is to hate on it....i am guessing its to do with her style and if you would take the time to look at the profiles of you who are addressing rather than be generic you would see i dont exactly look like a 60 yr old librarian...
> ...



I really love this post, and it has reminded me-- If I dislike her or not isn't really relevant. In past threads, one can see that I have defended the OP. My personal opinion of her really does not come into play here. As Bexy said-- I would do the SAME THING to even my best friend. In fact, I HAVE on several occasions. Ask her! I dole out the tough love if need be, and need does be.


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## TearInYourHand (Feb 15, 2008)

Tooz said:


> Gee, I didn't know that respect meant not eating it. I can respect animal life and still consume meat that came from an animal that wasn't tortured. I am sorry, but the whole "YOU CAN'T EAT ANIMALS UNLESS YOU WANNA BE A HYPOCRITE" thing is ridiculous.
> 
> 
> Furthermore, I find it quite amusing that the OP really hasn't come back to defend herself, and has now moved on to making other threads.



Tooz, I seriously like you a lot! I always enjoy reading what you write here, but I think that this is just an area of disagreement. I think that if one holds high respect form animal life, they cannot eat mass produced meats from slaughterhouses (which is mostly what is in supermarkets). Free range stuff, or situations where the animals are treated better before they are killed, is more iffy. Even in that case I feel that it is kinda borderline.

Tooz, I love ya, but we are at an impasse.:bow:


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## mossystate (Feb 15, 2008)

yup..I have left nice posts in the OP's other threads..and yet..I still agree with, and have said as much, with some of the feelings expressed in this thread....so much of the time, situations are not kept on a case by case basis..and then some people, who think they don't judge..ever..or, better yet, would never believe there can be patterns..express their outrage..and...judge.....and what a circle jerk it becomes...but, yes, some are just above some things....yet, they are not.....circlecirclecircle...oh, and it also depends on who you like/relate to...which is normal...let's just call it...now, I am off to have my dinner....mmmmmm..chicken and cheesy taters and a big, green salad...


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## furious styles (Feb 15, 2008)

bexylicious said:


> *
> lets get this straight, please dont assume anything about me. dont assume that i dislike anyone, or think anyone is stupid.
> 
> i have enjoyed some of the OPs threads, commented on them, commented on her pics. what the heck has brit being "a hipster" got to do with any of this? kudos to her if she is indeed a "hipster", i dont even know what one is to hate on it....i am guessing its to do with her style and if you would take the time to look at the profiles of you who are addressing rather than be generic you would see i dont exactly look like a 60 yr old librarian...
> ...



If it doesn't apply to you then don't respond. :B


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## bexy (Feb 16, 2008)

mfdoom said:


> If it doesn't apply to you then don't respond. :B



*make it clear who you are addressing then, please humour me here. if not people like myself and tooz then who?*


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## IwannabeVERYfat (Feb 16, 2008)

chill out everyone


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## GWARrior (Feb 16, 2008)

bexylicious said:


> *make it clear who you are addressing then, please humour me here. if not people like myself and tooz then who?*



He just did a "Ill call out everyone, but when they get offended Ill say it wasnt about them" post.


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## furious styles (Feb 17, 2008)

GWARrior said:


> He just did a "Ill call out everyone, but when they get offended Ill say it wasnt about them" post.



You've got me ALL figured out. :doh:


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## Eroica86 (Feb 17, 2008)

I remember when I moved to college, my mom told me I would have to take my cat with me. I had no idea what to think of it, since I was moving out of state, and was 17 at the time. I had some family friends in the area that offered to house my cat for me for the first year until I could have it move back in with me. This way I was still paying for its food and visiting it when I could. Now I live in an apartment, and the cat moved back in with me. 
- My cat has destructive features too. She's got this strong desire to pee on my bed.. or anything that is soft and on the floor. She's also got some digestive problems, so she vomits a lot. I can always count on coming home to find a mess.
- My roomie loves cats. I had a hard time finding a place to live that accepted pets, and a roomie that was ok with one. 
I cover my bed with plastic when I'm not home, to keep the cat off. I've also strategically set my apartment up where she won't pee on clothes, since they all stay away from the floor, or in piles. 
She still has her digestive problems, but I've explored changes in her diet..
- Basically... If you really want to keep the cat, you can make it work, it just takes extra effort. Perhaps you know some people in AZ who could foster your cat for a year/semester w/e. Meanwhile you can figure out the changes you need to make in your living space so you and your cat can be happy. 
- If you've just discovered that the cat is really a problem in your living situation. It's too bad, because the cat will feel neglected when it switches homes again and loses its relationship with you. 
- How are things going with the cat? This isn't a very old post, but I'm surprised with all the extra-related topics on here...


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## Aliena (Feb 17, 2008)

This is an excellent post, thank you for sharing your thoughts. (Rep for you!) I remember when I moved to Ky for college my parents offered to foster my WubbyTubby while I stayed in the dorm. I came home every weekend to spend it with my kitty, but the dorm life wasn't for me and fortunately I already had a place in the neighborhood of my parents where I was permitted to have pets. I opted to commute the round-trip of 140 miles a day to college, which made both me and the Wub happier. 

Point is your right, if there is a will there is a way. If the OP is able and wanting to find a way to keep her cat, she will; there are always options. If the OP and the kitty aren't working out together, then it is her right to try and find a happier place for her and her pet. I'm optimistic she is not just abandoning her kitty, rather conciously making an effort to find her a better place to be. I give her kudos for that. 
Sometimes, it just doesn't work out and that in itself is alright and understandable. She _is_ being responsible by doing the right thing and not just throwing her pet out like she/he is trash.
We pet-parents can be hopeful that the next time the OP would like to have a pet she will remember and consider this moment when she wasn't able to keep the commitment of her adoption. 

Last night my Dh, parents, and I went to the pet store to buy fish. My mom and I made it over to the Humane societies section to look at the pets they had for adoption. There was this beautiful most lovely feline that caught my attention and heart; I wanted her desparately. However, I live in a 2-bedroom apartment with 2 babies already and I'm not in the position to adopt another kitty, especially since my one baby is recently adopted. 

I actually ended up talking my parents into adopting the girl and hopefully the adoption will be finalized today. My parents are great cat spoilers and lovers, so she'll have a good home. 
Basically what I'm trying to say is as much as we would like to, it's just best we don't. We have to keep our head in the right place even when our heart is pulling us in another direction. It's for the well being of all living creatures concerned.


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## moore2me (Feb 17, 2008)

When someone turns to this community for advice or solace because they are miserable, unhappy, or need some friends to talk to, we need to be more understanding. Even tho our world has swelled with people and we are living on top of each other in apartments, many are isolated and turn to this media as a way to connect to another human being. We must learn to treat each other with more compassion. We all make mistakes and will continue making them as long as we are alive. But, that is no reason to cruel or contentious with a fellow traveler in this world.

I am amazed that a simple question about a cat created such a firestorm among my peeps. I am saddened by the fact that only a handful of adults chose to consider the value of humanity in general over an animal. I know this statement will only provoke another wave of flaming by OPs regarding animal rights - but 163 posts and only a little over 1/4 of them were supportive of the woman who needed help??? I agree with MFDoom in that part of the problem is that the internet seems to disassociate us from our humanity. Please guys, reconsider adding kindness, forgiveness, and love to your future deals with people. None of us are perfect. We need each other's help and encouragement.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 17, 2008)

The simple fact is if you put something out there (like demonstrabley irresponsible behavior) people will point it out to you. If in 163 posts, the majority said that the OP did something wrong, maybe she'll pay attention and learn something. Most of us were concerned with the animal (and future animals') well being because the OP behaved in a careless and irresponsible manner. She is clearly more concerned with traveling, smoking, dating, and partying. All of which are fine, but as Bex and TSL and Tooz have pointed out, you don't get a cat in those circumstances. As GWarrior pointed out, the purpose here isn't to sing kumbayah and be all feel-good. This site is for adults only and hopefully people will realize if they discuss behaviour of which others might be critical...others will criticize.


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## Miss Vickie (Feb 17, 2008)

mfdoom said:


> You've got me ALL figured out. :doh:



You mean just like how you have the rest of us figured out? You were able to suss out people's motives, intentions, etc just from the way they responded to a post. I think that takes big brass ones. So if Gwar has you figured out, how is it any different?



Aliena said:


> I actually ended up talking my parents into adopting the girl and hopefully the adoption will be finalized today. My parents are great cat spoilers and lovers, so she'll have a good home.



Oooh, great idea! I like that one; if you can't adopt it yourself, get a family member. It'll be like having grandkids. You get all the fun and joy -- without the mess.  I'm like you, I'd fill my place with animals if I could, but it's just not always feasible to bring home every animal we encounter (though Lord knows, I've tried). Maybe that's a lesson learned with maturity? Brit's pretty young, so I give her something of a pass (I don't let her off the hook entirely -- I want her to learn from this but I do understand the impetuosity of youth); if she continues in this pattern, though, then I'll be really disappointed.



moore2me said:


> When someone turns to this community for advice or solace because they are miserable, unhappy, or need some friends to talk to, we need to be more understanding.



I think that there was a lot of understanding. It's possible to both be empathetic and understanding while also gently saying, "Perhaps you need to look before you leap" next time. I would think that we can both be honest and show support. Giving someone unconditional solace when they seem to be engaging in a pattern of unhealthy behavior isn't helping them. It's just enabling them to do it again and again. Sometimes the kindest thing we can do is to gently call them out on their actions so they can learn something. As bad as she feels now, she will feel ten times worse if she continues to get animals, only to have to dispose of them. I'm trying to save her from that kind of guilt.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 17, 2008)

Enabling bad behavior is not being kind.


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## Eroica86 (Feb 17, 2008)

I do feel like people were being a bit unkind. So, maybe Britt makes a mistake. How unhumane of a mistake was it? I didn't see her adopting a cat she didn't take care of. I didn't see her telling us she planned on kicking it out to fend for itself, or doing anything irresponsible for her current situation. 
She obviously cares about the cat to ask for advice. 
Also, some of the people on here are "recent adults".... let us make mistakes and learn from them without being barated.


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## GWARrior (Feb 17, 2008)

Small mistakes will turn into much bigger mistakes if no one steps up to the plate and tells the truth, even if its a little "unkind".


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## Aliena (Feb 17, 2008)

GWARrior said:


> Small mistakes will turn into much bigger mistakes if no one steps up to the plate and tells the truth, even if its a little "unkind".




So we have the unkind police? 
Telling the truth doesn't necessarily mean one has to be unkind and it certainly doesn't _justify_ the tone of the idealology being passed in here as though there is no room for other interpretation. 
In short, everyone is entitled to their opinion and the right to live their life the way the choose. When the choices are bad we pay the price eventually and that is what makes us who we are. 
It's all part of the learning process.


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## Aliena (Feb 17, 2008)

Miss Vickie said:


> Oooh, great idea! I like that one; if you can't adopt it yourself, get a family member. It'll be like having grandkids. You get all the fun and joy -- without the mess.  I'm like you, I'd fill my place with animals if I could, but it's just not always feasible to bring home every animal we encounter (though Lord knows, I've tried).




Well the adoption is final and the baby is home with my parents. She's sniffing around her new territory and meeting her brother. (mom and dad's other simease baby)
I look forward getting to know her and participating on the "welcome to the family" process. 

I'm like you Vickie, if I could I'd have a house full of animals giving them full sanctuary. Maybe one day I will; one day.


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## LoveBHMS (Feb 17, 2008)

Aliena said:


> So we have the unkind police?
> Telling the truth doesn't necessarily mean one has to be unkind and it certainly doesn't _justify_ the tone of the idealology being passed in here as though there is no room for other interpretation.
> In short, everyone is entitled to their opinion and the right to live their life the way the choose. When the choices are bad we pay the price eventually and that is what makes us who we are.
> It's all part of the learning process.



In this case, the animals pay.

I didn't see anyone being unkind to the OP. Pointing out that a live creature is not an impulse buy is not being unkind. Anyone who has been involved with animal rescue has seen what happens to pets who are adopted and given back time and again. They often become increasingly high strung and nervous and have trouble bonding to new owners. It's stressful and difficult for the animals to be bounced around from owner to owner.

My concern quite frankly is that humans become educated and informed about responsible pet ownership. I think this is how all, or most of the pet owners on this thread feel.


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## Aliena (Feb 17, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> In this case, the animals pay.
> 
> I didn't see anyone being unkind to the OP. Pointing out that a live creature is not an impulse buy is not being unkind. Anyone who has been involved with animal rescue has seen what happens to pets who are adopted and given back time and again. They often become increasingly high strung and nervous and have trouble bonding to new owners. It's stressful and difficult for the animals to be bounced around from owner to owner.
> 
> My concern quite frankly is that humans become educated and informed about responsible pet ownership. I think this is how all, or most of the pet owners on this thread feel.





As far as the unkind part, it's all a matter of perception and interpretation. 

As for the rest of your post, I agree completely. When looking at the animals in the cages last night, it really struck a chord in me. Especially when I read one of the cards (An introduction of the animal in the cage explaining where they came from, name, age; etc) summarizing the kitties circumstances that her owner lost her, called the shelter and said he'd be there to pick her up, but never showed. 
I felt a tinge of anger, because I've lost a pet before and never found her. To this day, I wish there would have been some way to find her and bring her home. 

MP is it is very irresponsible and (dare I say) unkind to be so careless with a life one has commited to protecting and to take care of. 
I think with adoptions it would be a good idea to have some kind of training explaining and training the adoptee how to take care of the pet and what it means to make the commitment to have one. 

Is that reasonable? To me it is. However, the feesible aspect is another story.


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