# Dating non FA's. Yay or Nay? (BBW input only please)



## Fallenangel2904 (Jul 12, 2011)

This has probably been brought up before on here, I skimmed but couldn't find it so please excuse me if there is already a thread like this.

What are your feelings on dating guys who are not FA's? Guys who have no knowledge of the SA community, and may not necessarily like a big girl, but like YOU? I ask because I get hit on by guys who are not FA's (Well not that I know of meaning I have not met them through the community) and there is a part of me that is apprehensive to give them a chance. I think I'm just SO comfortable dating FA's- I found the community when I was like 15, I haven't had much experience with non FA guys. I spent a lot time growing up feeling inadequate, finding guys who liked fat girls was an eye opening experience, for the first time I felt like a guy wasn't just going to 'put up' with me being fat, but he actually LOVED that about me. I get scared with guys who aren't into fat girls because I still feel like they may be LOOKING PAST the fact that I'm fat, but I want a guy to genuinely love all of me.

I am on a few dating sites (Okaycupid, Pleasentlyoffish etc) and I mention I am a BBW on there. I get messages all the time from guys who I don't think are FA's but are interested. I recently got a message from a guy who said something like 'I don't care about your weight, you seem like a nice person' or something like that, and see THAT is the type of thing I DON'T like about dating guys who don't like fat girls. I don't want them to like me in spite of my weight, but I also don't want a guy to like me ONLY because of my weight.

It's a bit confusing. Thoughts, comments? What are your feelings on this?


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## AnnMarie (Jul 12, 2011)

If someone acts like you want, treats you like you want, and likes what you want them to like about you, then I don't think it matters how they self-identify. 

However, I know what I want, what I like, what I want them to like about me (ALL the things, inside and out) and my history is that I like, prefer, and want to date FAs. If they don't self-identify that way, that's fine, but if it walks likes a duck, talks like a duck and is into my WHOLE body, and not just the girl parts - then ... quack.


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## Diana_Prince245 (Jul 12, 2011)

I generally date non-FAs (I'm kinda on the smaller side around here it seems), and as long as I don't get pressure weightwise, I have really nice relationships with them. People are people. If they like you, they like you, and most of the time they accept your weight as long as you are honest and upfront about it and don't try to hide it. Speaking from personal experience here, of course.

To be honest, the only pressure I've gotten weightwise was from an FA who was trying to make me gain, which I didn't want to do.


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## CarlaSixx (Jul 12, 2011)

I've known about the SA community since my teens and have been part of it since, but I have yet to date anyone who's part of it as well. In my case, I think I would be a little more apprehensive about FAs, but that's just because I've never been with a self-identified FA.


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## Fallenangel2904 (Jul 12, 2011)

Interesting guys. For me I just felt a lot more accepted by FA's then I guess you could say the 'regular' guy. I'm sure there are guys out there who are not FA's who would want me, be attracted to me, but it would always make me wonder if I was really desirable to them. If they weren't secretly wanting me to loose weight.

I feel like Annmarie here. At this point I do prefer to date FA guys. Though I feel like it limits me A LOT and I have to search extra hard to find these guys either online, bbw events etc- where my other friends who date can just go to the bar or heck even the mall and meet someone. It limits my options, but I feel more comfortable with it.

Interesting to hear everyone's opinions!


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## superodalisque (Jul 12, 2011)

i generally prefer guys who don't/won't call themselves FAs. its not because i don't love my size or because i don't enjoy being appreciated physically. for me living in my body is a must and being with someone fully attracted to it is a must as well. i, however, never assume that an attraction to me will be so rare and difficult to find. maybe that works for me because i take that tact and never limit myself only to guys who know what the community is and are a part of it. there are actually guys who don't need it at all and don't care even if they have been exposed to it.

i think that i just enjoy an average courtship and i personally get that from non FAs most. for me its drama free. i passed the "will he like my body" stage a long long time ago. i already know a lot of men do and will. my hierarchy has expanded. generally speaking guys who are much less fearful in regards to their attraction are my focus. i can easily love respect and be attracted to a guy who is truly confident in who he is and needs no propping up. if i met an FA who didn't seem so very centered solely on my size weight shape etc... and what others thought about that i'd date him as well as long as i was attracted to him. i just haven't come across many guys who have treated me in the way i wanted to be treated that i was attracted to and also called himself an FA. i love my friends who are FAs to death though. 

i think it would be a whole lot easier for me to be attracted if the expectations bar for them wasn't so very low. it would be easier for them to move along like a lot of other men when it came to fulfilling my personal emotional needs. its not enough that they like my body. i want more. i want it all. unfortunately right now the whole FA thing refers generally to pieces. its not all guys fault. they've been shaped by a lot by women who are totally amazed that someone can like their body. sometimes that's the point that a lot of people tend to appear to stop at and vegetate. that's fine for them but not so satisfying for me personally. been there. done that a very long time ago. got the throwback tshirt. no need to keep living in the past. for me its time for much more.


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## Pitch (Jul 13, 2011)

All of my past relationships have been in non FAs. Or...I think? So, I guess Yea. I've never been with an FA.


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## Theatrmuse/Kara (Jul 13, 2011)

FAs totally ROCK.:wubu:


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## CastingPearls (Jul 13, 2011)

He's got to be a total LA (Lainey Admirer)


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## Diana_Prince245 (Jul 13, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> He's got to be a total LA (Lainey Admirer)



Who wouldn't want an LA


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## Tracyarts (Jul 13, 2011)

" What are your feelings on dating guys who are not FA's? Guys who have no knowledge of the SA community, and may not necessarily like a big girl, but like YOU? "

That'd describe my husband to the letter. He had no knowledge of the SA community when I met him, and had previously been involved with women of all shapes and sizes without any specific preference. 

As far as how I feel about it? I guess since I don't have a body size preference either, it's a non-issue to me. 

Tracy


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## Jes (Jul 13, 2011)

It sounds to me like you are the one bringing the weight issue into some of this. That's not to say you're always wrong, by any means, but it's something to be aware of. Relationships come down to the 2 (or more!) people in them and labels are just labels. I'm quite happy with a man who doesn't identify as an FA, though I realize that's just a label. In this world, we're lucky to find someone that we like who likes us back. That's really all you need in the beginning, when you're exploring one another. I wouldn't take a statement like: I don't care about your weight: as necessarily a bad thing or indicative of someone not actively liking your physical presence. Maybe a cigar is just a cigar and your weight, 100 lbs, 250 lbs. or 500 lbs, isn't what he cares about. Isn't that refreshing? Isn't that liberating? You're making your weight an issue before you need to (if, in fact, you EVER need to with a specific someone). You can't know how he really feels about you 'til you meet and get to know one another, but that's the same with all guys.


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## superodalisque (Jul 13, 2011)

Jes said:


> It sounds to me like you are the one bringing the weight issue into some of this. That's not to say you're always wrong, by any means, but it's something to be aware of. Relationships come down to the 2 (or more!) people in them and labels are just labels. I'm quite happy with a man who doesn't identify as an FA, though I realize that's just a label. In this world, we're lucky to find someone that we like who likes us back. That's really all you need in the beginning, when you're exploring one another. I wouldn't take a statement like: I don't care about your weight: as necessarily a bad thing or indicative of someone not actively liking your physical presence. Maybe a cigar is just a cigar and your weight, 100 lbs, 250 lbs. or 500 lbs, isn't what he cares about. Isn't that refreshing? Isn't that liberating? You're making your weight an issue before you need to (if, in fact, you EVER need to with a specific someone). You can't know how he really feels about you 'til you meet and get to know one another, but that's the same with all guys.



so nice say it twice


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## Jes (Jul 13, 2011)

ps: calling non-FAs 'regular guys' might be problematic as you negotiate these romantic-partner-finding waters. There is a lot of power in what we choose to name things.


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## Miss Vickie (Jul 13, 2011)

Jes said:


> It sounds to me like you are the one bringing the weight issue into some of this. That's not to say you're always wrong, by any means, but it's something to be aware of. Relationships come down to the 2 (or more!) people in them and labels are just labels. I'm quite happy with a man who doesn't identify as an FA, though I realize that's just a label. In this world, we're lucky to find someone that we like who likes us back. That's really all you need in the beginning, when you're exploring one another. I wouldn't take a statement like: I don't care about your weight: as necessarily a bad thing or indicative of someone not actively liking your physical presence. Maybe a cigar is just a cigar and your weight, 100 lbs, 250 lbs. or 500 lbs, isn't what he cares about. Isn't that refreshing? Isn't that liberating? You're making your weight an issue before you need to (if, in fact, you EVER need to with a specific someone). You can't know how he really feels about you 'til you meet and get to know one another, but that's the same with all guys.



Third time's the charm.


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## superodalisque (Jul 13, 2011)

Jes said:


> ps: calling non-FAs 'regular guys' might be problematic as you negotiate these romantic-partner-finding waters. There is a lot of power in what we choose to name things.



indeed,its not irregular creepy odd freaky or even all that unusual for men to be attracted to fat women.

the problem is when we can't feel its a regular thing to have people attracted to us.


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## MissAshley (Jul 14, 2011)

I may be going out on a limb here but it sounds like there's a possibility that you could be nervous getting into a relationship with a "regular guy" because you fear that moment when he hints to you that you could lose weight, or just acts unattracted to your weight in general. With FA's, you know that's not going to happen. 

I don't know you or your situation, so I know that could be totally untrue, but just making a guess.


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## CastingPearls (Jul 14, 2011)

MissAshley said:


> I may be going out on a limb here but it sounds like there's a possibility that you could be nervous getting into a relationship with a "regular guy" because you fear that moment when he hints to you that you could lose weight, or just acts unattracted to your weight in general. With FA's, you know that's not going to happen.
> 
> I don't know you or your situation, so I know that could be totally untrue, but just making a guess.


With many FAs there's also the possibility that he may want her to remain at her size and not change ever or he would lose interest or even want her to gain which is pretty much the flip side of the same coin you suggest.


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## MissAshley (Jul 14, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> With many FAs there's also the possibility that he may want her to remain at her size and not change ever or he would lose interest or even want her to gain which is pretty much the flip side of the same coin you suggest.



That's true. I have heard of FAs doing that too.


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## penguin (Jul 14, 2011)

I want someone who wants to be with me, and is attracted to me as I am, however it is that I am. I want them to want to be with _me_, not just my body.


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## Shan34 (Jul 14, 2011)

I've never been with an FA, to my knowledge. 

And I've never been with anybody that was disgusted by my body, but I am self conscious of my belly and the thought of that part of my body getting some lovin instead of being skipped over is a very appealing thought. :wubu:

Really though, a man has got to love damn near everything about me. I'm quirky. So is my body. Gotta be more than "putting up with" all of me.


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## MisticalMisty (Jul 14, 2011)

Here's a thread I started...wow 5 years ago..lol

http://dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11750&highlight=Dating

It's a tiresome debate sometimes. There are many women who just don't understand that there are men..fa or not, who aren't just attracted to a body.

Just because a man is an FA doesn't mean he only sees your fat and just because a man is an FA doesn't mean that he sees more than your fat. That's going to be true of any man you meet.

I dated 2 non-FAs in my life and swore it would never happen again. FAs aren't a mythical creature, but things can be so very, very different with a man that admires, appreciates and ENJOYS a fat body than with a man that is tolerating it or goes for the obvious spots.

Both of those relationships ended because of my weight and the fact that I wasn't planning on changing it at the time.

If you think he's worth it, take a chance. There's no harm in meeting and hanging out. Once you're comfortable with him, talk to him about it.

I married an FA and while he's attracted to my body, he's a Misty admirer. 

Good luck!


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## Theatrmuse/Kara (Jul 14, 2011)

[I married an FA and while he's attracted to my body, he's a Misty admirer. 

Good luck![/COLOR][/QUOTE]

LOVE this comment!


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## LovelyLiz (Jul 14, 2011)

My feeling is that it's such a precious and rare thing to find a person who you truly connect with and can love, and who connects with and loves you back, that when you find real potential for that it it's best just to go for it and not worry about the labels too much. 

Will there probably be specific issues you have to go through with a guy who doesn't have experience dating fat women, or who typically dates thin women? Yes. 

Will there be specific issues that come up with a guy who has pretty much exclusively dated fat women? Yes.

Every deep relationship requires work, taking huge risks of vulnerability, and lots of communication. But if it's someone I really saw a potential for love with, and since that comes around so rarely, I would go for it no matter his stated fat-lady-preference.


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## coriander (Jul 14, 2011)

When I was on the small end of fat, I was with a guy who was a closeted FA (don't get me started on that ). He would tell me things like, "you're the smallest girl I've ever dated" and "if you were any thinner, I wouldn't date you." Then he dumped me and hooked up with his ex, who was a lot fatter than I was. Hmm!

I met my current boyfriend shortly thereafter, and since then, I've gone from fat to thin to average. My weight is The Great Fluctuator! Yet, my bf hasn't said anything or done anything to suggest that he prefers me one way over another...which actually feels pretty good! 

tl;dr, due to my own experiences, I tend to lean towards guys without a strict preference, because my size is not static.


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## bigsexy920 (Jul 14, 2011)

i'm an equal opportunity dater. Like AM said. the guy treats me the way I want to be treated i should date them...I should worry about the "label" 

Now to find someone that treats me the way I want to be treated


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## PeanutButterfly (Jul 14, 2011)

I tend to agree with the OP a lot. Thats pretty much my perspective on dating. I've dated/had flings and such with non-FAs and the whole time I felt self conscious and insecure. FAs tend to work best for me because the community is a big part of who I am and I dont know how well I'd be able to explain it to someone who had no prior knowledge of it.

My weight also tends to stay fairly stable, between 180 and 210 when I'm not trying to gain or lose so for me I don't see the point in dating a non-FA. Knock on wood, but besides a major illness I'm never going to be thin. I've learned to make peace with that through the help of Dims and my wonderful FA boyfriend. For that reason I probably wouldnt date a non-FA again if I can help it. Now if one happened to come along and we had great chemistry I wouldn't not give it a shot, but I would constantly feel like he wanted to be with someone else or wished I was thinner. Relationships have enough working against them, the whole "will he judge me if I take that 2nd serving?!" isn't something I like adding to the mix.


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## superodalisque (Jul 15, 2011)

please excuse what i'm going to say. i don't mean it as a personal judgment but something to just think about. but should a fat woman be so dependent on a particular type of person or a particular group of people in order to like her body or "make peace" with the fact that she'll never be small? is she settling and if so what is she actually settling for. does the inability to feel comfortable in her body anywhere with anyone more something to be dealing with from within themselves than something to be dependent on other people for. is the ability to feel comfortable with ones own body more about the individual person and whats inside them than the security of who they feel they can hang with because they are too afraid to put themselves out there just in case? should she be worrying about exactly what the opinion of someone else will be when she takes the second serving at all? knowing that there are lots of men out there who find larger than average women attractive, why so much fear? shouldn't the fear be dealt with? should she make herself emotionally dependent just because of her size?


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## MisticalMisty (Jul 15, 2011)

Ok felecia..I'll bite.



superodalisque said:


> please excuse what i'm going to say. i don't mean it as a personal judgment but something to just think about. but should a fat woman be so dependent on a particular type of person or a particular group of people in order to like her body or "make peace" with the fact that she'll never be small?


I've never depended upon a man for how I feel about my body. I came to terms with my body years ago and my confidence and self esteem come from me...not from any man. I don't need a man to feel confident, beautiful, sexy and I damn sure didn't date FAs to "make peace" with the fact that I *MAY* never be small. You always tend to give very little credit to women Felecia. Just because a woman seeks an FA doesn't mean she will be relying on him for anything other than love, stability and other things that go along with committed relationships.


superodalisque said:


> is she settling and if so what is she actually settling for. does the inability to feel comfortable in her body anywhere with anyone more something to be dealing with from within themselves than something to be dependent on other people for. is the ability to feel comfortable with ones own body more about the individual person and whats inside them than the security of who they feel they can hang with because they are too afraid to put themselves out there just in case? should she be worrying about exactly what the opinion of someone else will be when she takes the second serving at all? knowing that there are lots of men out there who find larger than average women attractive, why so much fear? shouldn't the fear be dealt with? should she make herself emotionally dependent just because of her size?



It's human nature to want to attract a partner and it's ingrained in us that we want to find a partner attractive or be attractive to a partner. 

Are you trying to say that fat women are "settling" when it comes to dating an FA? Because to be quite honest, I really can't understand what you are trying to say in that last paragraph.


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## olwen (Jul 15, 2011)

I think this debate comes down to how the fat woman feels about her size. If a fat woman is forever wishing she were smaller then it wouldn't make sense to date an FA. Problem is men who aren't attracted to fat women aren't going to be attracted fat women. It doesn't then make sense to go after a man who would merely tolerate a fat body either. I wouldn't want any man to tolerate my size no matter what size I am. I'd want him to embrace it. If I were trying to loose weight, I wouldn't date until I felt I was the size I wanted to be. The problem then becomes well, what if I do loose weight but then gain it back (which is often inevitable) and the guy I'm with hates the weight gain\? There's no way to win. 

I get bristly over the emphasis some women put on the exact meaning of the label "FA." For me it means only that a person is attracted to fat people. No more, no less. It doesn't imply saintly behavior or asshole behavior either. It doesn't imply that he/she only sees the body and not the person. It's just a convenient descriptor. 

That said, I have never been thin, will never be thin, don't care to be thin, and don't aspire to be thin, and I like my body the way it is, so it makes sense for me to seek out a guy who will be attracted to my body as it is. Twenty or thirty pounds of flux weight (if I exercise I'm slightly smaller and if I don't i'm slightly larger) won't make much of a difference at the size I am, so it's not something I worry about.

It has been my experience that men who aren't attracted to me aren't attracted to fat women at all, and if a man is attracted to me chances are he's attracted to fat women in general. Whether or not he wants to label himself an FA is his business. What matters is that he likes me and my body. I suppose if I were an inbetweenie it would be more of an issue and I might wonder how much my size has to do with his attraction to me. But ultimately it wouldn't matter as long as he treated me right. As with any man, that's all that matters really.


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## spiritangel (Jul 15, 2011)

I have met quite a few men recently who have had both bbw, ssbbw and skinnier women and love all of them it depends on the personality of the woman and their compatability

after trying a hard core fa earlier in the year and numerous conversations with them over my time here honestly I am leaning towards the its not all about body size types but I will enjoy every hot sexy inch of you because I do like it shrugs 

I am no offence because I do know these boards have some amazing fa's leaning towards the type of man who loves the whole package not just the surface area


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## Jes (Jul 15, 2011)

spiritangel said:


> its not all about body size types but I will enjoy every hot sexy inch of you because I do like it shrugs



I don't know what this means.


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## spiritangel (Jul 15, 2011)

it means that when I am with you and want to be with you and such in a relationship the other women I have been with irregaurdless of size or shape do not matter I enjoy being with you I havent had much sleep and am pretty wiped basically its a just because someone doesnt identify as an fa doesnt mean they dont find you sexy and attractive in body mind and spirit


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## Jes (Jul 15, 2011)

spiritangel said:


> it means that when I am with you and want to be with you and such in a relationship the other women I have been with irregaurdless of size or shape do not matter I enjoy being with you I havent had much sleep and am pretty wiped basically its a just because someone doesnt identify as an fa doesnt mean they dont find you sexy and attractive in body mind and spirit



i think i'm still not following but i didn't realize you are also dating women. I think it was the 'shrugs' part of the earlier message that made it seem like a part of the sentence was missing! But thank you for explaining, i'll read it again.


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## CastingPearls (Jul 15, 2011)

Jes said:


> i think i'm still not following but i didn't realize you are also dating women. I think it was the 'shrugs' part of the earlier message that made it seem like a part of the sentence was missing! But thank you for explaining, i'll read it again.


She's not dating other women. LOL She's been up for like 48 hours and isn't even making sense to herself but she's saying that she's leaning more and more towards men who love women of any size. Since she's a SSBBW, that he'd say he loves every inch of her (as opposed to tolerating it over other features) as well as loving what's inside (I liked her 'the whole package, just not the surface area' part myself, personally) holds more ...um..weight... than a label but she's not knocking the label. That's how I'm reading it.


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## Miss Vickie (Jul 15, 2011)

olwen said:


> I think this debate comes down to how the fat woman feels about her size. If a fat woman is forever wishing she were smaller then it wouldn't make sense to date an FA.



I don't think that's quite fair. My mom was the most size positive woman I've ever met, at a time prior to SA, and she married my dad, who though not a FA, adored every inch of her. I've never met a man love on a woman so much, especially decades into a relationship. My dad, prior to dating my mom, had dated women of all sizes, and my mom embraced her size in a way I've seen few of us do. She called doctors on fatphobic comments, even before such terms existed. The idea that she shouldn't show her fat bare arms was anathema to her. She wore her cellulite with pride. I don't ever remember her verbalizing a wish to be smaller and in fact, she loved her size.

I haven't dated FAs because growing up how and where I have, they simply didn't exist. My husband has loved me, and my body, since I was 16 years old (I'm 46 now), has admired my body when I was a size 16 to a size 26 and back to a 14. He's loved me through pregnancies, and never made me feel anything other than sexy and desirable. 

I've never desperately wished my body to be smaller and the WLS happened to address health problems that were unresolvable. Prior to getting sick with Sarcoidosis, I was an active fat woman who enjoyed her curves and who was super happy with her size. But once I developed a degenerative disease and risked losing my health, mobility and career, my attitude changed. And even with choosing surgery, I told my surgeon I wanted to keep my curves, which is why we negotiated for a minimal amount of intestine bypassed, which has kept me near 200 pounds. I'm still "obese" by medical standards -- hardly the attitude of someone who hates being fat. I had the opportunity to get down to a size 4 and chose not to. Would I do that if I hated being fat? Nope.



> Problem is men who aren't attracted to fat women aren't going to be attracted fat women.



But can a man be attracted to a woman who is fat without self identifying as a FA? Burt has been attracted to me (prior to me he dated women of all sizes) but he doesn't in any way "tolerate" my size and loves my fat because it's part of me. Would he love it on someone else? Hard to say, but on me it's part of the package that makes me... me. I guess what makes him different than what I imagine some FAs to be is that when I wanted to lose weight, though he had huge concerns about WLS, he was supportive. He has continued to be attentive, loving and attracted to me as my body has gone through many changes which included weight loss. Would a FA tolerate that? Some yes. Some no.



> That said, I have never been thin, will never be thin, don't care to be thin, and don't aspire to be thin, and I like my body the way it is, so it makes sense for me to seek out a guy who will be attracted to my body as it is. Twenty or thirty pounds of flux weight (if I exercise I'm slightly smaller and if I don't i'm slightly larger) won't make much of a difference at the size I am, so it's not something I worry about.



We're in the same situation. The difference I suppose is that I didn't need to seek out a FA to find that guy. Maybe if I hadn't been with Burt for decades, things would be different. I imagine the dating world is different now than it was in the 80's? But even so, the guys who have expressed attraction to me have not been FA's. They've been guys who were just attracted to me -- my size, my smile, my wickedness. These days I'm more insecure about my age -- I'm starting to feel like an old lady -- than my size.



> But ultimately it wouldn't matter as long as he treated me right. As with any man, that's all that matters really.



I think this ultimately the most important thing. Labels aside, if the guy likes you and treats you right, do labels matter?


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## Jes (Jul 15, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> That's how I'm reading it.



thank you for the translation!! sometimes i really need one.


Something else I'm wondering is if there IS a split between women at or under a certain weight and women over a certain weight.

i'm not sitting in a mind of a SS woman, but if you asked a 250 lbs woman and a 500 lbs woman how many 'likes women of all sizes/size is not an issue' men she'd met would the numbers be similar?

It's hard to 'test' for since we're all so different. the 500 lbs woman might go out most weekends and chat and flirt while the thinner woman might stay home. It's an imperfect experiment but maybe there's some good anecdotal information out there.

We'll call this evidence-based posting!


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jul 15, 2011)

I dated both. I love FA's. I married an FA almost 18 years ago. I'm happier than I ever thought I'd be.


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## olwen (Jul 15, 2011)

Vickie, if you're not one of those women who were forever wishing she was smaller then, I'm not sure what your point is...Loosing weight for health reasons (whatever that is) is not the same as loosing weight because of general unhappiness with one's looks. One you try to do because you have to, the other you try to do because you want to. 

In my mind a woman who is forever wishing she was smaller hates being fat on general principal and most likely doesn't have health issues related to her size. I've know several fat women who felt that way and had wls as a result. They are no longer fat and no longer dating fat admirers. I imagine someone who hates being fat wouldn't want to date a man who was attracted to fat women, and would probably have conflicted feelings about this FA business. Attraction becomes messy. 

I just think some fat women make too much of the label and put all kinds of meaning to it that need not be there, and make generalizations where none are necessary. Attraction is attraction. It doesn't matter if he identifies as an FA or not. Again, it's just a convenient descriptor and I see no reason for it to go beyond that definition.


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## Miss Vickie (Jul 15, 2011)

olwen said:


> Vickie, if you're not one of those women who were forever wishing she was smaller then, I'm not sure what your point is...Loosing weight for health reasons (whatever that is) is not the same as loosing weight because of general unhappiness with one's looks. One you try to do because you have to, the other you try to do because you want to.



My point was in response (I thought) to what I thought you said, which was that women who date non-FA's are women who are forever wishing they were smaller. I wanted to say that in my case, I've dated non-FAs and don't hate my size, never have hated my size. That's all. 



> In my mind a woman who is forever wishing she was smaller hates being fat on general principal and most likely doesn't have health issues related to her size. I've know several fat women who felt that way and had wls as a result. They are no longer fat and no longer dating fat admirers. I imagine someone who hates being fat wouldn't want to date a man who was attracted to fat women, and would probably have conflicted feelings about this FA business. Attraction becomes messy.



True. I carried your point perhaps further than it was intended?


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## olwen (Jul 15, 2011)

Jes said:


> thank you for the translation!! sometimes i really need one.
> 
> 
> Something else I'm wondering is if there IS a split between women at or under a certain weight and women over a certain weight.
> ...



I can't really speak to the experience of a smaller bbw, I can only speculate, but I do wonder the same things Jes. 

I've never been smaller than a size 24 and have fluctuated between that size and a size 32. My size has never not been an issue with men. The men I wanted to date who weren't FAs just weren't attracted to me but a couple have remained life long friends who love me deeply. If I were thinner I'm sure I'd have been married four times over by now. Not that I'd want to be married four times, but you know what I mean.

In general I find it hard to believe that a man who isn't already attracted to a mid-size or ssbbw would think that her personality would be so great or that their chemistry would be so awesome for him to willingly embrace a size he's never been attracted to before. I honestly believe any guy who says otherwise is lying. It's more likely he's always been attracted to a woman that size but has struggled with it in some way or another. If he's ready to finally date a woman that size, then he got some kind of push from someone or some thing.

I've had great chemistry with several guys, and once someone else said "oh you two have been spending a lot of time together, what's going on between you?" then they stopped spending so much time with me and put lots of distance between us and things were never the same again. They ended up with thin women. Or if I said something like "I think we're attracted to each other and maybe we have something going here, and we should date," a strong rebuff would quickly follow, and while we're still friends, they still chose thin women. 

This is just my experience tho...it's just a fact of life for me at this point. It is extremely important for me to find a guy who is attracted to my size first and if he takes the time to get to know me, and we have chemistry we can go from there, otherwise all I'll get is friendship if that. That is why it matters to me to date an FA. So I just don't get all this hemming and hawing over what it means to be an FA or what that means to a fat woman. If a guy is attracted to me he's attracted to me. Whether or not he is willing to date me is a different matter regardless of what he labels himself.


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## olwen (Jul 15, 2011)

Miss Vickie said:


> My point was in response (I thought) to what I thought you said, which was that women who date non-FA's are women who are forever wishing they were smaller. I wanted to say that in my case, I've dated non-FAs and don't hate my size, never have hated my size. That's all.
> 
> 
> 
> True. I carried your point perhaps further than it was intended?



I guess my definition of a fat hating fatty was where the confusion was. I take it for granted that what I think about the matter is what other fat people will think too. Glad it's cleared up now.


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## superodalisque (Jul 15, 2011)

MisticalMisty said:


> Ok felecia..I'll bite.
> 
> 
> I've never depended upon a man for how I feel about my body. I came to terms with my body years ago and my confidence and self esteem come from me...not from any man. I don't need a man to feel confident, beautiful, sexy and I damn sure didn't date FAs to "make peace" with the fact that I *MAY* never be small. You always tend to give very little credit to women Felecia. Just because a woman seeks an FA doesn't mean she will be relying on him for anything other than love, stability and other things that go along with committed relationships.
> ...



i'm not making a statement but asking about being the link between uncomfortable within yourself around people who don't necessarily have a fat body as their sexual focus and not being able to take a risk beyond certain perimeters. 

nobody should wait on me or anyone else to give themselves credit or approva. they can do that easily for themselves. so my opinions or even questions shouldn't matter to them so much. i think people know their own truths.

maybe its a problem that you're taking this as a personal judgement on you especially since you haven't even posted in this thread before. honestly i don't have time to judge you. i hadn't thought at all about what you're doing or who you're doing it with. and probably neither have most people. this is an exploration about what might work for people what might not and what might motivate people and what might not. if you disagree with what i said that's okay. just don't take everything someone has to say into yourself as a negative judgment on what you do or who you are.

i agree everyone wants to be attractive. i never said anything opposing that. i never said anything about settling at all either. i said what i meant, which is not a comment on FAs at all but on BBWs themselves. it was a inward looking question asking why someone might be so afraid or uncomfortable to date outside of that the community especially when they have said they basically fear dating outside of that. should fear be limiting a BBW that way? isn't that something they should look at? if it had been said that someone preferred FAs just because she liked them , that's one thing but being uncomfortable with your body outside of that sphere is something else altogether. hopefully we can be comfortable with who we are no matter who we are around. i thought that was the ultimate goal? that should apply whether someone dated an FA or not.


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## superodalisque (Jul 15, 2011)

olwen said:


> I think this debate comes down to how the fat woman feels about her size. If a fat woman is forever wishing she were smaller then it wouldn't make sense to date an FA. Problem is men who aren't attracted to fat women aren't going to be attracted fat women. It doesn't then make sense to go after a man who would merely tolerate a fat body either. I wouldn't want any man to tolerate my size no matter what size I am. I'd want him to embrace it. If I were trying to loose weight, I wouldn't date until I felt I was the size I wanted to be. The problem then becomes well, what if I do loose weight but then gain it back (which is often inevitable) and the guy I'm with hates the weight gain\? There's no way to win.
> 
> I get bristly over the emphasis some women put on the exact meaning of the label "FA." For me it means only that a person is attracted to fat people. No more, no less. It doesn't imply saintly behavior or asshole behavior either. It doesn't imply that he/she only sees the body and not the person. It's just a convenient descriptor.
> 
> ...



i agree with you absolutely that what matters most is how he treats you.

on another point, i know some fat women who seek out FAs specifically _because_ they don't like their fat bodies. maybe it could even be said that some of them do so specifically because of that since some may not truly believe that_ anything but_ a dyed in the wool card carrying event going label wearing guy could ever go for them. some don't even feel that men outside of that community can even be genuinely physically attracted to them and can only "tolerate" their body. so there are some people who might go for FAs specifically out of discomfort with their own bodies and would never in a million years take any chance with an unknown quantity.

unfortunately for them there are some fat women who actually need to see what size girls the guy has dated even before they can decide if they can even be receptive to a guy who flirts directly. it doesn't make them bad people or weak people. they are just women being very self protective. but what they have to think about is that just maybe they aren't doing themselves any favors or feeling themselves 100% if they are only limiting themselves because they think that only a very few or very select group of men can possibly truly be attracted to them. FAs in and of themselves have absolutely nothing to do with that though. its up to the fat woman to decide if that's the way she really wants to view life and if its truly healthy for her personally.

semantics _are_ very annoying but it might be important to clarify sometimes especially since people who do label themselves and people who don't often belong to two very different schools of thought and bring a different philosophy to how they think and feel about fat women.


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## superodalisque (Jul 15, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> i'm not making a statement but asking about being the link between uncomfortable within yourself around people who don't necessarily have a fat body as their sexual focus and not being able to take a risk beyond certain perimeters.
> 
> nobody should wait on me or anyone else to give themselves credit or approva. they can do that easily for themselves. so my opinions or even questions shouldn't matter to them so much. i think people know their own truths.
> 
> ...



oops i did say something about settling. but i didn't mean settling for FAs as if they were somehow less than other men. what i meant was settling only because a fat woman is too scared to branch out or take a chance because she is afraid. that has nothing to do with the quality of individual FAs, just artificial personal limitations.


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## superodalisque (Jul 15, 2011)

Jes said:


> thank you for the translation!! sometimes i really need one.
> 
> 
> Something else I'm wondering is if there IS a split between women at or under a certain weight and women over a certain weight.
> ...



i used to be 410. recently i've come down about 100lbs. it shows a whole lot on my face so i give an overall impression that i am much smaller than i am. i don't see a whole lot of difference in how most men treat me or respond to me in public. i still get compliments or flirts when i'm out every day. the odd thing is i've gotten the most compliments over the lost weight from people inside of the community. the ones who didn't even know me before often say they prefer me this way. it was something i absolutely had not expected. maybe we make too much of what we _read_ on dims after all. i don't know.


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## olwen (Jul 15, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> i agree with you absolutely that what matters most is how he treats you.
> 
> on another point, i know some fat women who seek out FAs specifically _because_ they don't like their fat bodies. maybe it could even be said that some of them do so specifically because of that since some may not truly believe that_ anything but_ a dyed in the wool card carrying event going label wearing guy could ever go for them. some don't even feel that men outside of that community can even be genuinely physically attracted to them and can only "tolerate" their body. so there are some people who might go for FAs specifically out of discomfort with their own bodies and would never in a million years take any chance with an unknown quantity.
> 
> ...



It doesn't make sense to me that a fat woman would date an FA because they hate their bodies. That's whakadoo....Are you saying they would only date an FA because they don't think they can do any better? This would imply that there was something wrong with the idea that someone would be attracted to a fat person. That's the same as a guy dating fat women because they don't think they can do any better. Either way it stinks. Let those people have each other.


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## superodalisque (Jul 15, 2011)

olwen said:


> It doesn't make sense to me that a fat woman would date an FA because they hate their bodies. That's whakadoo....Are you saying they would only date an FA because they don't think they can do any better? This would imply that there was something wrong with the idea that someone would be attracted to a fat person. That's the same as a guy dating fat women because they don't think they can do any better. Either way it stinks. Let those people have each other.



yeah it stinks but there it is. you can't blame the folks who feel that way though. when you think of all of the pressure lots of people get all of their lives from the media and even family and friends over the years its perfectly understandable. it can really warp our sense of ourselves and who and what we really are. i think people who don't feel that way or never have, have a responsibility to empathize but not enable other folks to stay in that place so they can eventually break out and be supported in being everything they can be. its usually, but not always, someone just starting to know themselves. i do know some people who have a very confident facade who have admitted that they've actually felt that way too though--even if its only for a moment.

i'm not sure if its because they don't feel they can do better. i just think they like to be in situations that they feel they can be certain of and control. i think some people like to feel that being with certain kinds of people will guarantee them some kind of acceptance--at least the sexual kind. unfortunately life isn't really like that. no one can really be that certain of anyone no matter their designation. just because someone is an FA it doesn't stand to reason that he'll be instantly or always attracted to a particular person anyway. that's why some women get so upset and disappointed when a particular FA isn't attracted to their shape, type or personality. the guy doesn't owe anyone an automatic attraction just because he likes fat women. but some people hold them to that standard like its some promise he made to donate his life to any fat woman coming along. suddenly he is no longer an FA because he isn't attracted to them personally. so actually there is the same risk with him as with any other man.

feeling the need to control things so much could possibly cut out _the one_ for a particular fat woman. we can't really know what kind of package the person who is best for us will come in. so pretty much like you said, maybe we just need to be open to anything good coming our way. but its hard to really blame people who just want a little certainty or emotional or sexual security in their lives. it might not be such a bad thing for a woman's self esteem, at least to begin with, if she can go somewhere and at least _feel_ personally sure that she can at least get laid whenever she wants--whether that's true or not. bu hopefully in the long term she won't need to be propped up by some kind of false certainty, that depends on the approval of other people, to like herself just he way she is.


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## spiritangel (Jul 15, 2011)

CastingPearls said:


> She's not dating other women. LOL She's been up for like 48 hours and isn't even making sense to herself but she's saying that she's leaning more and more towards men who love women of any size. Since she's a SSBBW, that he'd say he loves every inch of her (as opposed to tolerating it over other features) as well as loving what's inside (I liked her 'the whole package, just not the surface area' part myself, personally) holds more ...um..weight... than a label but she's not knocking the label. That's how I'm reading it.




This is exactly what I was trying to say ty Lainey for reading through my jumbled thoughts and helping them to make sense


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## MisticalMisty (Jul 15, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> maybe its a problem that you're taking this as a personal judgement on you especially since you haven't even posted in this thread before. honestly i don't have time to judge you. i hadn't thought at all about what you're doing or who you're doing it with. and probably neither have most people. this is an exploration about what might work for people what might not and what might motivate people and what might not. if you disagree with what i said that's okay. just don't take everything someone has to say into yourself as a negative judgment on what you do or who you are.


 First off, I posted on the first page http://dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1755423&postcount=22 So, this has nothing to do with thinking that you're judging me. What you, or anyone else, thinks about my marriage doesn't bother me. 

I had typed out a long response, but I just can't hit send, because you just don't get it....and never will.

God forbid a woman is with a man that finds every roll, dimple, double chin, bat wing, fupa, etc. attractive. I just don't understand your logic that a fat woman that dates/fucks/marries an FA has done so because she doesn't think she has any choice or is a body-hating, self loathing, bitch in heat.


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## superodalisque (Jul 16, 2011)

MisticalMisty said:


> First off, I posted on the first page http://dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1755423&postcount=22 So, this has nothing to do with thinking that you're judging me. What you, or anyone else, thinks about my marriage doesn't bother me.
> 
> I had typed out a long response, but I just can't hit send, because you just don't get it....and never will.
> 
> God forbid a woman is with a man that finds every roll, dimple, double chin, bat wing, fupa, etc. attractive. I just don't understand your logic that a fat woman that dates/fucks/marries an FA has done so because she doesn't think she has any choice or is a body-hating, self loathing, bitch in heat.



tbat's your interpretation of what i said. keep rolling with it as long as that's what you want to believe. its your problem not mine.


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## PeanutButterfly (Jul 16, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> please excuse what i'm going to say. i don't mean it as a personal judgment but something to just think about. but should a fat woman be so dependent on a particular type of person or a particular group of people in order to like her body or "make peace" with the fact that she'll never be small? is she settling and if so what is she actually settling for. does the inability to feel comfortable in her body anywhere with anyone more something to be dealing with from within themselves than something to be dependent on other people for. is the ability to feel comfortable with ones own body more about the individual person and whats inside them than the security of who they feel they can hang with because they are too afraid to put themselves out there just in case? should she be worrying about exactly what the opinion of someone else will be when she takes the second serving at all? knowing that there are lots of men out there who find larger than average women attractive, why so much fear? shouldn't the fear be dealt with? should she make herself emotionally dependent just because of her size?



Well when I originally read this I was going to post a nice, long reply. However, Olwen said everything I wanted to say much more articulately than I could. SuperO, we just simply disagree on FAs and what they have to offer. I really dont have the time or energy to pick apart all the incorrect assumptions about myself and my relationships in the above paragraph. And as you so eloquently point out, I should only worry about my own opinion anyway.


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## superodalisque (Jul 16, 2011)

PeanutButterfly said:


> Well when I originally read this I was going to post a nice, long reply. However, Olwen said everything I wanted to say much more articulately than I could. SuperO, we just simply disagree on FAs and what they have to offer. I really dont have the time or energy to pick apart all the incorrect assumptions about myself and my relationships in the above paragraph. And as you so eloquently point out, I should only worry about my own opinion anyway.



i don't know what you think my assumptions are or are not. they were questions and not concrete assumptions. they weren't generated to cover everyone in every situation or to attack you. they are just talking and thinking points that some of the things you said brought up in my mind. you are right your opinion is totally valid and your life is not subject to anyone's opinion. i was just interested in what you and other people thought about those questions.


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## olwen (Jul 16, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> oops i did say something about settling. but i didn't mean settling for FAs as if they were somehow less than other men. what i meant was settling only because a fat woman is too scared to branch out or take a chance because she is afraid. that has nothing to do with the quality of individual FAs, just artificial personal limitations.



The problem is not fat women, the problem is men who are afraid to date fat women. They hide, they lie, they cheat, they are afraid. If it weren't a big deal it would be easier to meet decent guys who happen to be attracted to fat women. It's not a question of settling. It's not about fear, It's about going where the boys are. If they tend to gather in places like this then it's easier to meet. 

Does this mean it's impossible to meet a man outside "the community" of course not. It's just harder, and I'm sure we've all tried at some point in our lives. If there was no stigma there would be no problem.


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## PunkyGurly74 (Jul 16, 2011)

olwen said:


> The problem is not fat women, the problem is men who are afraid to date fat women. They hide, they lie, they cheat, they are afraid. If it weren't a big deal it would be easier to meet decent guys who happen to be attracted to fat women. It's not a question of settling. It's not about fear, It's about going where the boys are. If they tend to gather in places like this then it's easier to meet.
> 
> Does this mean it's impossible to meet a man outside "the community" of course not. It's just harder, and I'm sure we've all tried at some point in our lives. If there was no stigma there would be no problem.



Exactly....soo exactly. I read some of your other posts in this thread and you read my mind....

I'm currently over 400 lbs and my reality is this:

It does not matter how intelligent, witty, funny, bubbly, sarcastic, outgoing, friendly, talkative I am the reality is 99.9% of men do not find me physically attractive. (Even supposed FA's don't find me attractive - I guess I'm just reallllly screwed! LOL) People love my personality, they just can't seem to get over how I look. Male friends in the past, if anyone thought or even hinted/joked we might be a couple he inevitably would deny it vehemently and flip out and soon the friendship would be gone and I wouldn't hear from them...or men in public at dog parks will talk to me, but, watch their body language and they make sure to keep a) a distance and b) their body language screams I'm not with this person - they turn their body and keep more than 3 feet (unless it is a gay man and most of them are quite lovely and very accepting and could care less) between us..

In my experience I can't say I have ever dated, because I haven't...I'm the girl guys only want to have sex with, because, clearly ( as just proven once again recently) I'm far too hideous to be seen with in public (<sic> perhaps I don't know..this is the way I have been made to feel my entire life) to take out somewhere, to be known and introduced as someones girlfriend..

Have the guys I messed around with been FA's? I don't even think most of them knew that term....but, my reality is this: Those guys would have never ever tried to get me bed, etc if they were not attracted to very fat girls.. and I believe this goes to what Jes questions about smaller bigger girls vs us over a certain weight: I really believe there is a difference between being slightly overweight and dating - I see this on these boards as well as real life - smaller size bbw''s have a larger dating pool that includes men who do not self-identify as FA's. Those are the guys who say I like a woman with a little meat on her bones. And honestly, the average size of a woman in America is a size 16 to 18 - so...yes, I do believe they have a much larger dating pool than I. 

Conversely, to like or be attracted to someone of my size is more often than not seen as something shameful. To be kept hidden and that should never see the light of day. That one should be ashamed. Keep it on the DL - sneak away in the cover of night - never tell your friends...and never let me find out where you live because the scary fat girl might like visit or something. Like they are trying to date a gremlin or something! LOL (Never get them wet, or feed them after midnight and no bright light! HA!) Sneak attack! Stealthy fat ninja! Even though, honestly, if they knew me ..reallllly knew me, they would know this: I have far too much integrity, dignity and class to EVER stalk them or "sneak up" on them. LOL That just kills me.

This of course is my experience and I can only speak to my experiences and perceptions.

Honestly though, I will be 37 tomorrow and if the first 37 is any indication of the next dating wise - I'm ready to move to my next life. lol


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## superodalisque (Jul 16, 2011)

olwen said:


> The problem is not fat women, the problem is men who are afraid to date fat women. They hide, they lie, they cheat, they are afraid. If it weren't a big deal it would be easier to meet decent guys who happen to be attracted to fat women. It's not a question of settling. It's not about fear, It's about going where the boys are. If they tend to gather in places like this then it's easier to meet.
> 
> Does this mean it's impossible to meet a man outside "the community" of course not. It's just harder, and I'm sure we've all tried at some point in our lives. If there was no stigma there would be no problem.



see that's not my experience at all. men inside or outside are probably just as likely to do those things from what i've seen. i can't tell you the number of men i personally know who have one life in the community and a whole other one outside of it. so no one has the lock on telling the truth either inside or outside. men are just men. i think we should just be taking them as individuals as you said. 

one thing i can say though is that a guy who will come up to you and flirt openly and even try to ask you out in front of his friends in public is not the guy who is likely to be thinking about how he is going to hide you. IME i've found much more of that inside the community where people can segregate themselves at special events and get lost in a crowd often pretending that they are only with friends. no one ever knows who or if they are dating. they can manage to keep it all on the down low if that's what they want and still get the benefits. they have no reason to do otherwise if they don't want to. there is no incentive. 

i never knew anything about any closet for any guy who liked me relative to my size at all growing up. so i think it depends on the experiences you have. no one i've dated has ever been afraid of what the public thinks. i actually refuse to date anyone with that mindset because i'm totally uncomfortable with it. i don't want the male equivalent of Hyacinth Bucket. i probably generally get cues from a guy i won't like even before we get to that stage and maybe that cuts them out beforehand. 

sure, fat women are not responsible for what guys do, but we might have to start taking more ownership of the choices we make that seem to say its okay and understandable when a guy feels closeted. its not okay or understandable. there are lots of guys out there who its no issue for at all. if they can feel free so can others if they'd really like to. so just maybe BBWs need to be careful about allowing themselves to be manipulated by certain guys who'll take advantage when a fat woman is not a place yet to recognize how untenable it is to say that a beautiful woman that they are attracted to makes them ashamed. we probably do need to be their friends, be supportive but totally refuse to agree with that or ever sacrifice ourselves to that.

to the women who've had bad experiences, i'm sorry. i hope they change for you soon. but there are several realities at work here. if we can talk truthfully and openly maybe we can get to why some people have polar opposite feelings and experiences relating to this. one thing we might need to think about is whether what we already think in our heads is affecting our reality. what are we bringing to the outside world. do we have the open attitude that is attractive in that we are receptive to the attention we do get. do we even believe we are getting any. are we ignoring it when we get it because we don't feel safe and we feel what could happen is totally out of our control? why is it that sometimes we are not seeing that people are attracted to us? why does a man need to wave a big sign to get our honest open and receptive attention?


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## olwen (Jul 16, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> see that's not my experience at all. men inside or outside are probably just as likely to do those things from what i've seen. i can't tell you the number of men i personally know who have one life in the community and a whole other one outside of it. so no one has the lock on telling the truth either inside or outside. men are just men. i think we should just be taking them as individuals as you said.
> 
> one thing i can say though is that a guy who will come up to you and flirt openly and even try to ask you out in front of his friends in public is not the guy who is likely to be thinking about how he is going to hide you. IME i've found much more of that inside the community where people can segregate themselves at special events and get lost in a crowd often pretending that they are only with friends. no one ever knows who or if they are dating. they can manage to keep it all on the down low if that's what they want and still get the benefits. they have no reason to do otherwise if they don't want to. there is no incentive.
> 
> ...



Felicia, I think your experiences as a fat woman are probably unique. 

As for the part in bold...I'm honestly surprised you need to ask this question, but if you haven't had the kinds of experiences that most of us have had then I guess it makes sense for you to wonder about it. 

Perhaps for women who have not been fat their whole lives and who have had a chance to have "normal" dating experiences, flirting may not be so challenging or mysterious. I didn't start to date until I turned 30, and I still feel like I'm playing catch up and I have no idea what I'm doing. All I know is my experience. Most guys pulled away sharply once they realized I was flirting with them. It happened A LOT. Seriously, I don't have enough fingers and toes to count them all. For me it's not for a lack of trying. So now unless a guy shows some kind of interest I don't bother. I'm not going to keep sticking my hand in the fire. Eventually I'll have no skin left to burn. 

And I get that you want to help fat women realize their full potential and all and that's well and good, but intimating that we should throw ourselves full into the fray of dating and whatnot when our experiences speak otherwise (in big bold blazing letters no less) isn't likely to be of any help whatsoever. It just alienates you from the rest of us and makes you seem like a fat woman hating fat woman, and I know that deep down you are not. That you have managed to get thru life as a fat woman (I think you've said you've been fat your whole life, yes?) without having men try to shit all over you, reject you left and right, refuse to acknowledge your whole personhood, say one thing and do another, or pretend they don't have feelings for you all because of your size is truly shocking to me, and I just don't know what else to say to that. 

This question of settling for FAs just seems...pointless to me. It makes more sense to me to think a fat woman would be settling if she chose a man who didn't truly appreciate her body because she didn't think she could do any better. And i know fat people don't have a lock on this concept so please don't mistake my meaning. Thin people settle for each other too but I'm sure something as fundamental as body size isn't one of those reasons. 

Ultimately I can't say what's right or wrong or dictate what other people should do. I can only say what's right for me. For me it's not settling to choose an FA.


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## superodalisque (Jul 16, 2011)

olwen said:


> Felicia, I think your experiences as a fat woman are probably unique.
> 
> As for the part in bold...I'm honestly surprised you need to ask this question, but if you haven't had the kinds of experiences that most of us have had then I guess it makes sense for you to wonder about it.
> 
> ...



i get you and i feel you. i'm not saying the choice of an FA is wrong, just that there is another reality too that has nothing to do with being rejected just because a woman is fat. there isn't just one reality. and being with someone who treats you well is NEVER settling. its a great thing.

i do have to say though that my experiences are not that unique. i grew up with a lot of cousins and aunts who were also SSBBWs. they were all married dating going to prom and the whole nine yards just like everyone else. most of us started dating around 16 or as soon as our dad's would let us. i have a lot of friends not in the community who are the same as i am. i was even with a lot of them when they met their husbands etc... in high school and college just like anyone else. we did a poll here and most people said they began dating in college. that's not even so unusual for people who are thin. i really don't feel that fat folk are as fringe or outsider as people like to make them.

there are a lot of realities. yours is one and mine is one too. mine isn't that rare. it might seem rare in the community because this is where women and men having issues come for support. but even here i don't think its fair to make a blanket statement that most of the women here didn't date and weren't found attractive until they were in their 30s. there are way too many posts to the contrary. that's not a judgment on people who have waited until their 30s or longer because guess what, it happens to thin people too. i know plenty. i have a sister who is 52 and has been between a size zero and a size 2 for most of her life. she is athletic pretty and smart. she's done everything that the media says they should have and is still in a tough situation --without ever having had an SO in her entire life. 

there are lots of fat women out there and in here who have always had the support of their family and the respect of their community. i feel bad because it seems that there are a lot of fat women have been exposed to a whole lot of abusive people. i don't think its natural or normal to make fat people suffer so much. maybe its time to call the media family members and other people out for the emotional abuse they heap on people they think are an easy target for their rage at life. its doesn't always have to be like that. there are actually people in the world who are decent toward others whether they are fat or not or whether they are even attracted to fat people or not.

we just come from different perspectives and there is room for both of them.
all i'm saying is that just maybe that the focus on fat as a reason for why people are not dating etc... might not be the actual reason anyway. maybe they aren't dating for the same reason other women aren't dating. maybe they just haven't met the right person. maybe being an emotionally abused person has caused them to develop a hard shell. maybe fears drive a lot of their choices. i dn;t think fat women are special cases. we aren't super women. if something bad happens to us we often carry baggage just like anyone else.

i totally disagree with the person who posted that very few men are attracted to larger than average women. actually most men are. more men are attracted to larger than average women than the slim model types. its been documented everywhere but a lot of women seem not to listen. not saying that it has to be true, but it has me thinking that just maybe the mindset and negative expectations might be more of an actual hindrance than a woman's actual size. after all, who can really be attracted to someone who has so many negative expectations of them? i know a lot of men who find fat women beautiful but they don't feel like dealing with that kind of negative focus. they don't feel like dealing with someone who generalizes instances of a few very loud and vocal assholes to them.


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## LovelyLiz (Jul 16, 2011)

I don't think it's "settling" to choose an FA either. Perhaps though, there is an amount of settling in thinking that the only guys open to dating us as fat women are guys who identify as FAs? Because the reality is, there are a lot more fat women than self-identified FAs, and finding a compatible person among that smaller pool can be really hard (I have years and years of trying as evidence for that). So even though the pain of rejection SUCKS in terms of seeing a guy as a romantic possibility, and then being rejected because of fatness, I still do think that given how hard it is to find a really compatible person it's good to be as open as possible - perhaps with phases of a more closed mindset when extra self-protection feels necessary.

Several years ago I was spending a lot of time with a really great guy, who did not identify as an FA, and I was beginning to have a crush on him. He then met a girl on a train and fell hard for her, and we pretty much stopped hanging out - and then they got married. In my head I pictured a very thin woman, and felt he had not considered me a romantic possibility because I was fat, and then when I met the woman I saw that she was more than 100 pounds heavier than me.

So that just goes to show that sometimes we think a non-FA guy is not interested in us because of fat, and that's not always the truth.


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## Jes (Jul 16, 2011)

PunkyGurly74 said:


> or men in public at dog parks will talk to me, but, watch their body language and they make sure to keep a) a distance and b) their body language screams I'm not with this person - they turn their body and keep more than 3 feet (unless it is a gay man and most of them are quite lovely and very accepting and could care less) between us..



I'm of 2 minds on this topic, and I hope what I want to add is helpful in some way.

I was fat from puberty on (and I mean early puberty). What I know of men and women is all from the perspective of a fat woman. That has, at times, made me see things some men do as 'things men do to fat women' and not just 'things some men do.' [and, of course, this is also a very reductionist view--men and women are not from different species even if it sometimes seems we are!]. 

I've gotten the guy who stands with a big space cushion between us and brings up a 'girlfriend' within the first 34 seconds of conversation, too. I've gotten to the point where, with some men, it's really laughable. I call it the 'unsolicited rejection'--meaning, I wasn't interested in the guy to begin with, so who is he trying so damned hard to reject?

But I guess the point I want to make is: many guys razz their friends about being with just about any partner. Ever hear one guy call another 'pussy whipped?' They're not saying: 'fat pussy whipped;' just the fact that your guy friend is with a woman is enough to give him a hard time (good natured sometimes, and angry at others). And Ethan Hawke and Brad Pitt (allegedly) cheated on Uma Thurman and Jennifer Aniston, 2 un-fat women who regularly make the 'most beautiful' lists. 

I have no doubt that a number of the men you encounter don't find you attractive physically, just as many of the men I meet don't find ME physically attractive. I am absolutely not trying to deny you your feelings, and I hope I'm conveying that, because I've shared your feelings. But I do think it's always helpful, to me at least, to step back and realize I may be throwing out the baby with the fat bathwater... I think men can be squirrely about relationships and interactions with all women, and it may not always be for the reasons we assume it's for. YMMV, of course.


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## ashmamma84 (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm fat. I'm partnered (and have been for years). I've always caught the eye of men and women alike. I'm not an anomaly. I'm just Ash - living my life and not really giving much thought to who _might_, on the off chance find me beautiful. I'm swell all on my own. Several of my closest friends are fat and they are partnered too. These are gorgeous, vibrant women that anyone would be lucky to have on their arm. I also have average size and thin friends who are married or partnered - I don't really think the dating game changes for fat women much. 

There are fat, thin and in between women who are all looking to date and get married so I wouldn't assume only FAs find fat women attractive. And further, just because a guy is an FA doesn't mean that he will like you personally as a fat woman. I find that kind of logic sort of caveman-esque like he doesn't have a preference just as long as she's fat, she'll do. Something about that just doesn't quite sit right with me, to be honest. 

Purely anecdotal, but I was just at a friend's birthday/bbq last weekend and her mother is an SSBBW. She has been fat all her life and recently lost a little weight from being more active - but she met her husband while she was in college. He was a frat boy and crashed a wedding they both were invited to. He's always been a I don't give a damn what people think kind of guy so he just went for what he knew. Mrs. M rocked his world then and she still is now, 33 years later. They know nothing about this community and probably don't care to know. He is a good looking man and she's a beautiful lady; both inside and out. I don't know if he always dated big women until he met Mrs. M, but I'm sure he didn't know what would rock his world until he met her. Maybe he was just open to it because he was truly ready for it and wanted it? I'm not sure. But what I am sure of is he's never been ashamed of her, lied about her to his family/friends, or led some whole other life. Oh and Mr. M isn't a unicorn. 

The same is true for my parents. My Mother wasn't always fat, but put on a significant amount of weight as she got older and is now a midsize bbw; my father could not be more in love with her. They met when she was a size 2 and now she's a 22 and its all good with them both. I think a lot of it has to do with attitude and/or temperament. My father has always been proud of my mother and didn't/doesn't care to try to micromanage her weight so it just never mattered whether she gained or lost. Its not a reflection of him or who he is as a man. He's probably just too concerned with more important things; like taking care and loving on my mother. Spending the second half of their lives enjoying themselves; not obsessing over something that's not going to change. 

Anyway, I say all that to say non FAs and FAs are good choices. As long as there's love and respect involved it doesn't matter what one calls him/herself. I just happened to fall in love with an Ash admirer; no label needed.


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## superodalisque (Jul 16, 2011)

ashmamma84 said:


> I'm fat. I'm partnered (and have been for years). I've always caught the eye of men and women alike. I'm not an anomaly. I'm just Ash - living my life and not really giving much thought to who _might_, on the off chance find me beautiful. I'm swell all on my own. Several of my closest friends are fat and they are partnered too. These are gorgeous, vibrant women that anyone would be lucky to have on their arm. I also have average size and thin friends who are married or partnered - I don't really think the dating game changes for fat women much.
> 
> There are fat, thin and in between women who are all looking to date and get married so I wouldn't assume only FAs find fat women attractive. And further, just because a guy is an FA doesn't mean that he will like you personally as a fat woman. I find that kind of logic sort of caveman-esque like he doesn't have a preference just as long as she's fat, she'll do. Something about that just doesn't quite sit right with me, to be honest.
> 
> ...



it wouldn't let me rep you


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## olwen (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm kind of amazed at how differently we all define the term "FA." That seems to make all the difference in attitude and expectation.


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## liz (di-va) (Jul 16, 2011)

olwen said:


> I'm kind of amazed at how differently we all define the term "FA." That seems to make all the difference in attitude and expectation.


Seems to be 95% of the problem here.

If no one had a problem using that term, what would this discussion even be about?


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## superodalisque (Jul 16, 2011)

liz (di-va) said:


> Seems to be 95% of the problem here.
> 
> If no one had a problem using that term, what would this discussion even be about?



you are right. there wouldn't be one. we'd just be talking about SOs and what we wanted. i think is artificial designation that bogs up the works when it comes to whats real and true for pretty much all of us--which is all any of us want, male, female, gay or straight, is someone to be good to us.


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## CarlaSixx (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm just gonna bypass all the drama above and say that although I've never been with an FA before (at least not self-identified as one), I'm leaning more towards it. And to be honest, I hated my fat more back then than now. For me, an FA would be someone who would find me physically attractive and be happy that I'm cool with being fat. Basically, to me, an FA would be the guy who lets me say my piece when someone comments on my fatness, and then when it's over, show me that he loves that. Non-FAs, to me, would be the type who'd want me to quiet down, not make a scene, or be the type who goes "you're not fat, you're just big." or something along those lines. Basically, an FA would not be afraid of the word "fat" while others are.

And to me, a guy who's not afraid of the truth is a lot more appealing.

As for male friends who were bugged about "are you guys an item?"... I feel kinda sorry for those who had those close male friends who would run. My male friends would always just say no, say who they are dating (if they even were dating anyone), and that was the end of that. Some people thought this one guy I always hung out with was my boyfriend in high school, and they didn't act mean about it. In fact, they were shocked when he was spotted making out with his real girlfriend in front of me. They'd come ask me if I was okay and taking it well. I'd always have to explain that every guy has been just a friend. Though I now know, years later, that some of my male friends were attracted to me, but intimidated by my "out there" personality. :doh:

Anyway... I don't refuse to date non-FAs, but at this point, I would prefer to date an FA. It just hasn't happened yet.


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## olwen (Jul 16, 2011)

liz (di-va) said:


> Seems to be 95% of the problem here.
> 
> If no one had a problem using that term, what would this discussion even be about?



There wouldn't be a discussion. Fatness and attraction to fatness it seems is some mysterious force that needs to be dissected, examined, translated, codified, writ down and taught like it's some kind of knowledge that only the sworn sisters of the master's tower can be privy to. It's kind of funny actually. I wish it were simpler.


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## NancyGirl74 (Jul 16, 2011)

I'm going to post...and possibly risk offending some. Sorry in advance.

I've only dated FA's and was nearly engaged to my first. While a lot of positives have come from the relationships I have learned one thing...The FAs I have dated and many I have met are nice guys but very, very focused on my weight. The fact that I am a person and likable as such comes second to my fat. I don't like that feeling. I am not saying it is bad or even wrong. I am also not saying that I will not date FAs in the future. I am saying that I won't settle for only being admired for having fat in the right places. I want to be liked for me (imperfections, insecurities, quirks, and all) first and foremost. 

**Disclaimer: This post is based only on my personal experiences.


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## Jes (Jul 16, 2011)

CarlaSixx said:


> Anyway... I don't refuse to date non-FAs, but at this point, I would prefer to date an FA. It just hasn't happened yet.



A good-natured question: why would you prefer it, if you have no experience with it? Meaning...what does the picture in your mind look like when you think about being with an FA? Do you think you can know if it's accurate if you haven't had that experience yet? More to the point, is an FA a unique profile that will act in a specific way all the time?


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## CarlaSixx (Jul 17, 2011)

I think I would prefer it _because_ I haven't experienced it. Granted not all FAs are the same, but I'm picky and I know the type of guy overall that I'm looking for. If the initial attraction is physical, then that works for me. I'd like to have it be that, but without it being an obsession. Everyone I've been with has liked me for my personality mainly (and I'd say pretty much _only_, or at least for what caused the attraction) but I would like someone to find me physically attractive from the get go. I want someone to feel like I'm an awesome piece of arm candy, as well as an awesome person overall. And since non-FAs haven't felt that way, I'd like to try and see if maybe I can find that in an FA.


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## spiritangel (Jul 17, 2011)

It comes down to this

NO ONE SHOULD FEEL THEY ARE SETTLING! not in love it leads to so many bad things 

Fat Tall Skinny Short Blonde Brunette Red Black Brown or White 

We all deserve to love and be loved as a whole and complete package

Does it truly matter if that person Identifies as an FA?

I dont think it does, as long as the person in question "Happens to have a high regaurd for your wobbly bits" (yes that is from bridget jones edge of reason) and find you sexy and desirable as well as infinately lovable I dont see this as an issue.

If they happen to be an out and proud FA that is fantastic to as long as an FA it isnt just about your size or the focus isnt just on that one thing

My experiences in the last year and a half have shown me I want a man who sees more than just my size who loves me wholey completely and unconditionally for who I am 

Does he have to be an fa? No

Does he have to find me sexy and attractive? HELL YES

I think it comes down to what we find fa or not and honestly It is refreshing because a non fa doesnt ask what you weigh or how big this or that is and to be honest those conversations bore the crap out of me.

I mean would you fight an attraction to someone who was equally as magnetically pulled to you over something like the fact they are not an fa? that just seems silly to me for some reason

there is no right or wrong here it is what is right or wrong for each indavidual

love is at time a tricky and precarious journey why cut off someone for not quite fitting into the catagry you want them in?


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## superodalisque (Jul 17, 2011)

NancyGirl74 said:


> I'm going to post...and possibly risk offending some. Sorry in advance.
> 
> I've only dated FA's and was nearly engaged to my first. While a lot of positives have come from the relationships I have learned one thing...The FAs I have dated and many I have met are nice guys but very, very focused on my weight. The fact that I am a person and likable as such comes second to my fat. I don't like that feeling. I am not saying it is bad or even wrong. I am also not saying that I will not date FAs in the future. I am saying that I won't settle for only being admired for having fat in the right places. I want to be liked for me (imperfections, insecurities, quirks, and all) first and foremost.
> 
> **Disclaimer: This post is based only on my personal experiences.



it would not let me rep you either


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## superodalisque (Jul 17, 2011)

olwen said:


> There wouldn't be a discussion. Fatness and attraction to fatness it seems is some mysterious force that needs to be dissected, examined, translated, codified, writ down and taught like it's some kind of knowledge that only the sworn sisters of the master's tower can be privy to. It's kind of funny actually. I wish it were simpler.



so do i. i'm beginning to wonder if the labels and all of the assumptions floating around on both sides aren't overall much more damaging to BBWs and FAs than the simple individual reality of the thing.


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## superodalisque (Jul 17, 2011)

question:

so what happens when fat women meet this magical guy called an FA who is supposed to make them feel secure because they are going to accept them when they are fat but they still aren't the type of fat woman he is attracted to? she's not a pear an hourglass or an apple or something, maybe her legs aren't fat enough or her face is too fat, maybe she's not a blonde brunette or redhead not a submissive or a dom, doesn't like wearing heels --on and on etc...etc...etc...?

and what if, heaven help you, you just aren't attracted to him?


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## CarlaSixx (Jul 17, 2011)

I'd move on to find a better guy. 

Gawd forbid a fat woman have the nerve to leave a man.


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## superodalisque (Jul 17, 2011)

CarlaSixx said:


> I'd move on to find a better guy.
> 
> Gawd forbid a fat woman have the nerve to leave a man.



great answer!


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## superodalisque (Jul 17, 2011)

CarlaSixx said:


> I'd move on to find a better guy.
> 
> Gawd forbid a fat woman have the nerve to leave a man.



it wouldn't let me rep you. great answer!


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## olwen (Jul 17, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> question:
> 
> so what happens when fat women meet this magical guy called an FA who is supposed to make them feel secure because they are going to accept them when they are fat but they still aren't the type of fat woman he is attracted to? she's not a pear an hourglass or an apple or something, maybe her legs aren't fat enough or her face is too fat, maybe she's not a blonde brunette or redhead not a submissive or a dom, doesn't like wearing heels --on and on etc...etc...etc...?
> 
> and what if, heaven help you, you just aren't attracted to him?



I don't understand the question. If two people aren't compatible they aren't compatible. What does a guy being an FA have to do with it?

Or are you just being hyperbolic here?


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## AnnMarie (Jul 17, 2011)

olwen said:


> I don't understand the question. If two people aren't compatible they aren't compatible. What does a guy being an FA have to do with it?
> 
> Or are you just being hyperbolic here?




Yes, from what I see that question is tantamount to "what happens when you meet a man and he's not attracted to you or you're not attracted to him?"

His/your preferences always play a role - which is exactly what many of us are saying, we have preference to choose from the pool of those that start with FA, either by identification or actions/feelings. Then you move forward from there. 

This is absolutely not any different than any HUMAN wanting or preferring something along the lines of taller/older/shorter/balder/black/white, etc. 

You start with a general "in this range" and then things work inward from there, even as you get to know someone - you learn things that you like and don't like about them. You make choices as you go. 

I'm tired of being made to feel as though I'm socially retarded or "protecting myself in a little box" for being an adult with a wide range of experiences and then having honed my area of interest to a certain point. And it's still a very LARGE point. 

I want to start with a man who prefers a large partner. Period. From there I have all my things that I like in people in general, then attraction on a physical level. It's not a needle in a haystack when you've actually met and dated these people.

Maybe it just boils down to the type of person you are and how wide a net you care to cast. I don't like sifting through thousands when I can immediately narrow to half that right off the bat. In the same way that I'm not going to consider someone who's 60 as that's beyond an age range I'd find acceptable. 


This is no different than that. If you don't want a guy with a preference for a larger body, then don't date them (please, in fact).


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## liz (di-va) (Jul 17, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> question:
> 
> so what happens when fat women meet this magical guy called an FA who is supposed to make them feel secure because they are going to accept them when they are fat but they still aren't the type of fat woman he is attracted to? she's not a pear an hourglass or an apple or something, maybe her legs aren't fat enough or her face is too fat, maybe she's not a blonde brunette or redhead not a submissive or a dom, doesn't like wearing heels --on and on etc...etc...etc...?
> 
> and what if, heaven help you, you just aren't attracted to him?



Nothing. Nothing happens. 

Why are you so worried about this situation? What do you think will happen? Are you so sure fat women have no sense of their own power? Or men? 

You talk as if you are trying to hurry women off a sinking ship when you talk about the self-identified FA/BBW community. It has problems--every community does--but what is the truth you are trying to say? I wish you'd just say it. You are not leading a graduate seminar. We are all talking about our own experiences here, and many of us (going by what you've said) have more experience dating self-identified FAs than you do. 

The thing that's really starting to bother me is that it feels like you are disallowing people's fundamental right to describe who they are. No one is ever just one thing: if someone is (perhaps) queer and a GenXer and differently-abled and from the east coast, they are also (perhaps) biracial and an FA and a graduate student and fond of gardening. Or whatever. Whatever collection of adjectives you are. FA is just one of the things somebody has a right to say they are. You should let people call themselves that.

We can deal with it, you know? Fat girls. We can handle men calling themselves FAs -- or not -- and still know each other as human beings.


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## ashmamma84 (Jul 17, 2011)

liz (di-va) said:


> Nothing. Nothing happens.
> 
> Why are you so worried about this situation? What do you think will happen? Are you so sure fat women have no sense of their own power? Or men?
> 
> ...



The crux of it all. Right on, Liz.


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## olwen (Jul 17, 2011)

AnnMarie said:


> Yes, from what I see that question is tantamount to "what happens when you meet a man and he's not attracted to you or you're not attracted to him?"
> 
> His/your preferences always play a role - which is exactly what many of us are saying, we have preference to choose from the pool of those that start with FA, either by identification or actions/feelings. Then you move forward from there.
> 
> ...





liz (di-va) said:


> Nothing. Nothing happens.
> 
> Why are you so worried about this situation? What do you think will happen? Are you so sure fat women have no sense of their own power? Or men?
> 
> ...




I couldn't rep either one of you.


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## MisticalMisty (Jul 17, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> question:
> 
> so what happens when fat women meet this magical guy called an FA who is supposed to make them feel secure



I still do not understand why this is such a crutch to your argument.

Just because a woman seeks an FA doesn't mean that she's leaning on him for security, confidence, etc. It's a preference. 

Did I limit my dating pool? Yep, sure did. I knew that I wanted to be with a man that desired a woman of size. Was I single a long time before I got lucky? Yep, almost 9 years. It was worth the wait. 

Nancy,

I'm really sorry those were your experiences, but again it goes back to the fundamentals. People suck. You will find FAs that are good, decent men and you will find some that are dogs..that's true of every person unfortunately.

Here's hoping the next guy sweeps you off your feet


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## MisticalMisty (Jul 17, 2011)

olwen said:


> I couldn't rep either one of you.




blah...me either


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## CastingPearls (Jul 17, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> question:
> 
> so what happens when fat women meet this magical guy called an FA who is supposed to make them feel secure because they are going to accept them when they are fat but they still aren't the type of fat woman he is attracted to? she's not a pear an hourglass or an apple or something, maybe her legs aren't fat enough or her face is too fat, maybe she's not a blonde brunette or redhead not a submissive or a dom, doesn't like wearing heels --on and on etc...etc...etc...?
> 
> and what if, heaven help you, you just aren't attracted to him?



Expecting someone ELSE to make one feel secure is a personal problem. That has to come from within. Wanting someone and wanting to be with someone who isn't attracted to the whole package is self-destructive. Being secure and wanting someone who appreciates that is different, IMO. One wants someone who loves you as much as you love you. And if you think about it, that's exactly what you're going to get anyway.

I've been attracted to men of all sizes and while I don't rule anyone out, I lean more towards the bigger guy. I prefer someone who's similar to me with his preferences but most importantly he has to be secure and open with his preferences, happy with HIMSELF and worship the ground I walk on, regardless of my size. And it's totally reciprocal.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 17, 2011)

I have said it before and will apparently keep saying it: I like the bi-sizuals and I suspect that is a self-identifying thing because I am one myself. 

Variety is the spice of life- men who can deal with that seem to make better bedfellows with me.


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## Mishty (Jul 17, 2011)

Since I was a teenager and first found the NAAFA and Dimensions websites, I've been on the FA bandwagon. I've never dated or had a relationship with one of these mystical creatures, but I figure holding out for someone that finds every aspect of who I am attractive, isn't a bad idea. 

Just last night, I was getting hit on hardcore by a really hot younger guy, who I was asking for help in the grocery section, but I couldn't even flirt back, because I don't see the need when I don't think he can find me more than just slightly appealing physically. 


Lately though, I've been wondering if it would be worth a try to hang out and spend some time with men and women that don't identify with fat admiring, but give me the signals, and interest me. I dated a girl that had no idea about the SA movement but openly had a thing for large women, and didn't try to explain it or over think it. She just liked what she liked.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 17, 2011)

Mishty said:


> Since I was a teenager and first found the NAAFA and Dimensions websites, I've been on the FA bandwagon. I've never dated or had a relationship with one of these mystical creatures, but I figure holding out for someone that finds every aspect of who I am attractive, isn't a bad idea.
> 
> Just last night, I was getting hit on hardcore by a really hot younger guy, who I was asking for help in the grocery section, but I couldn't even flirt back, because I don't see the need when I don't think he can find me more than just slightly appealing physically.
> 
> ...



Bingo- I like that type best meself


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## CastingPearls (Jul 17, 2011)

That's my favorite too.


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## penguin (Jul 17, 2011)

MisticalMisty said:


> Just because a woman seeks an FA doesn't mean that she's leaning on him for security, confidence, etc. It's a preference.
> 
> Did I limit my dating pool? Yep, sure did. I knew that I wanted to be with a man that desired a woman of size. Was I single a long time before I got lucky? Yep, almost 9 years. It was worth the wait.



When talking about it with my friends, I compare to myself to stinky cheese. A lot of people aren't into it and don't like the flavour. Others are crazy for it and will savour and relish it. I'm an acquired taste, not for everyone. There's plenty of other sorts of cheese out there for everyone to enjoy, and it won't bother me if they enjoy those as well as the stinky ones, just as long as they enjoy being with me.


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## superodalisque (Jul 17, 2011)

olwen said:


> I don't understand the question. If two people aren't compatible they aren't compatible. What does a guy being an FA have to do with it?
> 
> Or are you just being hyperbolic here?



pretty much just saying what you said in my own round about way


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## superodalisque (Jul 17, 2011)

liz (di-va) said:


> Nothing. Nothing happens.
> 
> Why are you so worried about this situation? What do you think will happen? Are you so sure fat women have no sense of their own power? Or men?
> 
> ...



that's my point. nothing happens, same as nothing may not happen with someone not identifying that way. the only difference is the assumption that it will or must happen in one case or that it definitely will not in another case. no matter what labels anyone sticks on it its all the same and a woman has to take all of the same chances. i'm not trying to stop anyone but maybe trying to start somebody. just saying there are no guarantees of anything no matter what label people put on themselves. there is no guy or woman anyone can be sure is their magic bullet so you may as well take a chance with anyone you feel interested in or attracted to who makes overtures to you.


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## *Goofy*Girl* (Jul 17, 2011)

I've been fat & thin & fat & thin-a yo-yo dieter most of my life. However, for about the last decade I've been a BBW/SSBBW. From my own life experience, it does not seem possible for a "regular" man to be attracted to a 100 lb. & a 500 lb. woman. I've never seen it nor have experienced it.

I have, however, (in my heavier phases) met guys that have claimed to like "all" sizes of women only to be dumped or cheated on by someone smaller.
It's as if they were dating me temporarily until someone they were really attracted to came along.
I've never been dumped or cheated on when I was thin.




MisticalMisty said:


> I dated 2 non-FAs in my life and swore it would never happen again. FAs aren't a mythical creature, but things can be so very, very different with a man that admires, appreciates and ENJOYS a fat body than with a man that is tolerating it or goes for the obvious spots.




This is why I will now only date an FA.

I was with an FA for the first time last year; it was an incredible experience!


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## katherine22 (Jul 17, 2011)

If someone is attracted to me because I am fat that is one less hurdle I have to get over.


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## NancyGirl74 (Jul 17, 2011)

I think you have to look too at BBWs who are dating FAs to help them feel more secure in their own skin vs BBW's who are dating FAs because they are already secure in their own skin. One will have better experiences than the other. I know who I am and own my flaws. I'm not blaming FAs just stating how my experiences made me feel. Perhaps one day I will be the second type of BBW and my tune will change. 


PS...thanks, Misty and SuperO for validating my post even if you are differing sides of the topic.


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## Jes (Jul 17, 2011)

*Goofy*Girl* said:


> This is why I will now only date an FA.
> 
> I was with an FA for the first time last year; it was an incredible experience!



I've never dated a man who called himself an FA. I'm glad it was incredible for you--what was different in the experience for you?


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## Fallenangel2904 (Jul 18, 2011)

I thank everyone for their opinions here, no matter how you feel on the issue. It is interesting to hear everyone's take on things. 

I must say with due respect to everyone, I don't really understand where all the dislike for FA's comes from (Not just from posts in this thread, in the community, around DIMS etc). It confuses me especially being that this is a size acceptance community. I am not berating anyone's opinions, we are all entitled to our own, we will not always see eye to eye and hopefully we will be able to discuss and debate our opinions in a mature and non judgmental way.

I have to say this, There are a lot of misconceptions about FA's that I see made, many of which in this thread. The bottom line is, they are just people. They aren't some mythical creatures, and shouldn't be made out to be such. They are people, people with a preference. It's the same as someone who is fond of read heads, or someone who prefers facial hair on a man. It's a preference. I see too many people treating FA's either like they are some sort of a rare species, or that they are perverts who only see fat. That isn't the case. They have jobs, hobbies, interests- things that define them outside of their sexual preference. Fat isn't the only thing that defines them.

At the end of the day if I make the choice to date an FA it isn't solely because he finds my fat attractive. Look if it were that simple I wouldn't be single now! I have had plenty of opportunities to be with guys, FA and non FA. Just as any person who dates, looks for a partner it comes down to SO much more then that. But is their something so wrong about wanting my mate to be sexually attracted to me? I don't really feel so. To know he likes the wobbly parts that most fat woman feel ashamed of and desperately try to hide? I have embraced these parts of my own body and rather LIKE them, so why shouldn't I find a man who does also? When I look for someone I look for compatibility, first and foremost. You could line up 1,000 FA men and if I do not feel a connection with them then I don't care about anything else. In that respect- for me anyway it's really not that different from anyone else.

I have learned to love MYSELF first and foremost, I don't NEED any man to tell me I am beautiful, define my self worth or tell me how amazing I am. I have come to terms with this on my own and already know. HOWEVER, it doesn't hurt to be told this, to be complimented and made to feel beautiful. Many fat woman (Not all, but a hell of a lot) have struggled with self esteem issues, finding their nitch and feeling attractive, especially in younger years. You can say no, but to a degree my findings have shown everyone needs that reassurance of an ego boost every now and then. 

We are all going to have different opinions on this, which is why I brought it up, it's interesting to see how others feel and I respect and enjoy reading everyone's opinions here. This is just mine.


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## *Goofy*Girl* (Jul 18, 2011)

Jes said:


> I've never dated a man who called himself an FA. I'm glad it was incredible for you--what was different in the experience for you?



It was different because I could tell he was proud to be with me. 

At restaurants, I ordered what I felt like having, not what would look "OK" to others. 

I didn't have to worry about negative comments about my weight; quite the opposite.

He didn't just give me the usual compliments on my big boobs, he also complimented me on other parts of my body I never thought could be considered attractive. 

I started looking at clothing differently and started dressing more the way I wanted to instead of completely covering everything up like a nun.

Like my arms, for example...I started wearing tank tops again and lace & mesh blouses where you could (OMG) actually see my arms.

And the way he touched me...he gave me the best massages.....

OK, I'm going to have to stop here because the rest is X-Rated, but I think you get the idea, lol.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jul 18, 2011)

This is such an old argument. I remember saying "I want a man who loves me for me, not my body." Look, everyone loves you for some reason. Men date women who are their type. Some guys like blondes, some brunettes, some short or tall or black or white or asian - the list goes on and on. I'm tired of the attack on FA's. I have several in my life (including my husband) and they're great guys who happen to love fat girls. Take away the term "FA" and their just men. It doesn't have to be so complicated.


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## mossystate (Jul 18, 2011)

I don't want a fa. There is no attack in that statement. It also is not me saying I don't want a man who likes my body...which happens to be fat. They are just men. That is the point...well, my point. They like fat women, but nothing more can be attributed to the label ' fa '. Nothing. Zip. The reason I don't want one is that most I have seen hide parts of them behind that label. No thanks.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jul 18, 2011)

Guys who aren't FA's take off their wedding rings and cheat too.


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## LovelyLiz (Jul 18, 2011)

MisticalMisty said:


> snipped
> Did I limit my dating pool? Yep, sure did. I knew that I wanted to be with a man that desired a woman of size. Was I single a long time before I got lucky? Yep, almost 9 years. It was worth the wait.



But did you want to be with a man who *only* wanted to be with a "woman of size"? And if so, why was that important to you? I mean, if the guy enjoyed your body, but could also enjoy a skinny body or average body too, what is the problem in that for you? (Genuinely curious - I find people's answers to this question really thought provoking.)



Fallenangel2904 said:


> SNIPPED
> But is their something so wrong about wanting my mate to be sexually attracted to me? I don't really feel so. To know he likes the wobbly parts that most fat woman feel ashamed of and desperately try to hide? I have embraced these parts of my own body and rather LIKE them, so why shouldn't I find a man who does also?



We all want our mate to be attracted to us, and to be attracted to all of our wobbly bits and whatnot. But he doesn't have to only be into fat women to enjoy a fat body in all of its fat glory. My boyfriend is not an FA, he very much believes that attraction is based on an individual and not on "types." He's kind of against the concept of "types", actually (I know a lot of you all disagree - I'm just saying not all guys have a "type" they are looking for). And evenso, he very much enjoys every part of my body. YMMV, of course, but I think it's important to get the different experiences out there, to show that there are all kinds of possibilities.


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## mossystate (Jul 18, 2011)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Guys who aren't FA's take off their wedding rings and cheat too.



That came right after my post so I assume it was for me. I wasn't talking about particulars like that. I am talking about thinking being a ' fa ' is anything more than liking fat bodies. The wedding ring thing never entered my mind.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jul 18, 2011)

I agree with you on that being an FA isn't anything more than liking fat bodies. I don't believe they are much different than any other man - except they like fat bodies. The wedding ring thing is an argument I hear all the time about FA's. I think if you don't want an FA so what. FA's have preferences but so do fat women.


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## MisticalMisty (Jul 18, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> But did you want to be with a man who *only* wanted to be with a "woman of size"? And if so, why was that important to you? I mean, if the guy enjoyed your body, but could also enjoy a skinny body or average body too, what is the problem in that for you? (Genuinely curious - I find people's answers to this question really thought provoking.)



The short answer, because I'm running out the door, is that I've never met a man that truly loved all sizes of women. I've known men that have tolerated my size, or have known friends in relationships with men who claim to be bisizual, but in the end...aren't.

Other than that, like I've mentioned up thread, being with an FA is just different. To be rather blunt, the sex is different. I've had my share of sex, and I'll admit that I had a lot of ONS because I wanted to have a lot of sex. Even when not in a committed relationship with these men, the sex with an FA was different. **Just because a man doesn't claim the label or even know that the label exists...doesn't mean he isn't one.**

I'm lucky that my hubby has been an FA for a long while and that he is a good, decent, loving and caring man. He's very attuned to my needs as a woman and more importantly, as a very, very fat woman.


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## butch (Jul 18, 2011)

This thread reminds me of a book review I read recently about a new book called "A Billion Wicked Thoughts," which is a massive study of what turns us on, using the internet and search engines as a main source of data. As has been said here in the past (and appears to be a huge surprise to everyone writing about the book), fat porn is one of the major things that men search for.

So, if this is the case, then why are there so few FAs, and/or men who date fat women? Is the problem with the discussion going on here is that there seems to be no distinction placed on attraction and dating? Sure, lots of men can flirt and such, but if those men are too afraid of public judgement to move flirting to dating, then it really doesn't matter if lots of men find fat women attractive, because many (most?) of them aren't turning attraction into anything more than, at best, an ongoing secret booty call. 

Perhaps an FA is a label for a man who both finds a fat woman attractive and wants to have a real, full relationship with one, because it sounds like what fat women want isn't a person who finds them attractive, but a person who finds them attractive and wants to pair bond with them. In that regard, the label FA seems very useful.


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## Tau (Jul 18, 2011)

AnnMarie said:


> If someone acts like you want, treats you like you want, and likes what you want them to like about you, then I don't think it matters how they self-identify.
> 
> However, I know what I want, what I like, what I want them to like about me (ALL the things, inside and out) and my history is that I like, prefer, and want to date FAs. If they don't self-identify that way, that's fine, but if it walks likes a duck, talks like a duck and is into my WHOLE body, and not just the girl parts - then ... quack.



This. Only requirement is that he be into me all the time


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## CastingPearls (Jul 18, 2011)

butch said:


> This thread reminds me of a book review I read recently about a new book called "A Billion Wicked Thoughts," which is a massive study of what turns us on, using the internet and search engines as a main source of data. As has been said here in the past (and appears to be a huge surprise to everyone writing about the book), fat porn is one of the major things that men search for.
> 
> So, if this is the case, then why are there so few FAs, and/or men who date fat women? Is the problem with the discussion going on here is that there seems to be no distinction placed on attraction and dating? Sure, lots of men can flirt and such, but if those men are too afraid of public judgement to move flirting to dating, then it really doesn't matter if lots of men find fat women attractive, because many (most?) of them aren't turning attraction into anything more than, at best, an ongoing secret booty call.
> 
> Perhaps an FA is a label for a man who both finds a fat woman attractive and wants to have a real, full relationship with one, because it sounds like what fat women want isn't a person who finds them attractive, but a person who finds them attractive and wants to pair bond with them. In that regard, the label FA seems very useful.



Well said. 



Tau said:


> This. Only requirement is that he be into me all the time



Mine too.


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## LovelyLiz (Jul 18, 2011)

butch said:


> *snipped*
> Perhaps an FA is a label for a man who both finds a fat woman attractive and wants to have a real, full relationship with one, because it sounds like what fat women want isn't a person who finds them attractive, but a person who finds them attractive and wants to pair bond with them. In that regard, the label FA seems very useful.



Except I don't think that's what the label actually connotes. If it did imply that, there wouldn't be so many threads about FAs in the closet treating fat women like dirty secrets, which I've read about too many times to count on these boards. 

I have found that a guy who is open to pair bonding with a fat woman doesn't necessarily have to prefer fat women at all either - and that seems to be the experience of others around here too. Bi-sizuals, or even people who don't really have any kind of specific preference at all, have also built happy, public relationships with fat women. It's not the exclusive domain of self-declared FAs.

As has been said in a dozen ways in this thread, and about a million times over these boards, there are guys who are FAs who are wonderful and open to forming caring relationships with fat women, and there are guys who do not have a specific preference for fat women who are wonderful and open to forming caring relationships with fat women.


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## olwen (Jul 18, 2011)

I'm finding it so interesting to see that everyone has a slightly different meaning for the term FA. To some it means "men who are *only* attracted to fat women." To others it means "men who are attracted to fat women and who may also be attracted to thin women." To yet still others it means "men who *only* fetishize fat women (optional: when shaped a certain way)." Yet, we've not all defined the range for fatness. Does the meaning change from one end of the spectrum of sizes to the other? Is a certain level of maturity implied in the definition; a certain level of experience? I honestly hadn't ever thought of any of this. The definition to me was always a rather pat and simple descriptor. To see so many interpretations is just mind boggling for me. Then I have to wonder if this is a term that should be more precise? Would that me more or less helpful?


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## olwen (Jul 18, 2011)

butch said:


> This thread reminds me of a book review I read recently about a new book called "A Billion Wicked Thoughts," which is a massive study of what turns us on, using the internet and search engines as a main source of data. As has been said here in the past (and appears to be a huge surprise to everyone writing about the book), fat porn is one of the major things that men search for.
> 
> So, if this is the case, then why are there so few FAs, and/or men who date fat women? Is the problem with the discussion going on here is that there seems to be no distinction placed on attraction and dating? Sure, lots of men can flirt and such, but if those men are too afraid of public judgement to move flirting to dating, then it really doesn't matter if lots of men find fat women attractive, because many (most?) of them aren't turning attraction into anything more than, at best, an ongoing secret booty call.
> 
> Perhaps an FA is a label for a man who both finds a fat woman attractive and wants to have a real, full relationship with one, because it sounds like what fat women want isn't a person who finds them attractive, but a person who finds them attractive and wants to pair bond with them. In that regard, the label FA seems very useful.



This definition is useful I think.


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## AnnMarie (Jul 18, 2011)

butch said:


> Perhaps an FA is a label for a man who both finds a fat woman attractive and wants to have a real, full relationship with one, because it sounds like what fat women want isn't a person who finds them attractive, but a person who finds them attractive and wants to pair bond with them. In that regard, the label FA seems very useful.



I see it this way. People who only want to jerk off to fat people have a fetish for fat. People who would seek out a fat partner are FAs. Doesn't mean they're anything more than that, but to me there is a distinction. 

Doesn't mean the FAs don't jerk off or have one night stands, just like the rest of us, but when it comes time to girlfriends and all, they want a fat partner as a first/strong preference. I go further in not really wanting a guy who is into "thin" women (used very loosely since I'd consider anything over 180ish pounds in the BBW realm at one end or another)

That's the other thing that drives me crazy, all this "if I lost 30lbs he'd leave!!"

If so, good riddance. Also, every single FA I know and have dated has a really wide range of weights that attract him, much, much mores than any guy I've known into thin girls. On average they would and have dated from 250-400+ lbs.

What they fear or dislike about weight loss tends to be as much, if not more, about the attitude of the person losing. Is it about hating their body or needing to lose with some feeling of loss from their own side? While dating an FA, after an illness, I dropped about 40 lbs, and my body changed and it was really noticeable. We discussed it, I shared my fears and thoughts and he shared his. I wasnt trying to drop weight because of a change, or assertion, in my feelings of my body. I didn't desire the loss, it was just a side effect. Bonus was that I got super soft and squishy, so there was something new and enjoyable. 

Point being, a lot of the fears and spectres here are not the entire reality and truth. I'm not saying that anyone's experiences are untrue or less valid, but just like anything, bad news travels much faster and lingers longer than good. I will always do my part to make sure that new people here, women and men, hear both sides. 

Good people and bad people. That doesn't change based on preferences. (forgive typos, typed this all one-fingered on the phone)


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## superodalisque (Jul 18, 2011)

mossystate said:


> I don't want a fa. There is no attack in that statement. It also is not me saying I don't want a man who likes my body...which happens to be fat. They are just men. That is the point...well, my point. They like fat women, but nothing more can be attributed to the label ' fa '. Nothing. Zip. The reason I don't want one is that most I have seen hide parts of them behind that label. No thanks.



that's pretty much my reason to a point. most guys i know who are attracted to me don't need the label. the label tends to drag along a lot of negative expectations on a guys side who ascribe to it that i just don't want to deal with. i think that's why i'm friends with so many guys from dims who refuse to identify with the moniker even though they are absolutely bonkers for fat women. they see the exact same things i do and dislike them:

the basic assumptions about whether i have confidence or not, the idea that they should even have the right to prescribe how much i should weigh and what my shape should be based on their attraction instead of them moving on to who and what they are attracted to and leaving me alone to be me, the idea that somehow all of society is against me and find my body unacceptable and i have to accept that idea and just be grateful, that they the few are attracted, the idea that i am a second class citizen in many respects am not allowed to truly speak my real opinion and say my truth without policing, they have to define me and explain me to the public because my own voice can't possibly be enough, i have to jump around in a bikini to prove that i'm desirable, one set of rules for them and another for me, people who feel its fine if i bring everything to the table and they bring absolutely nothing of worth, guys who are scared scared scared of what other people think or they like feeling on the fringe odd freaky and kinky an di have to champion those feelings and act as if they are okay with me--otherwise i'm just a a mean girl.

the whole atmosphere just seems to attract folks who don't feel alright with themselves and expect some kind of blank check because of it. i don't care for the "i've sacrificed my life for you therefore that's should give me carte blanche to do anything at all that i want to do to you " type. the only thing an FA is is a person who is physically attracted to fat people and trying to attribute perfection to it and only associate it with "the good ones" alone and appropriate people who refuse to identify just because they adore fat women and are great guys. it's not being genuine about who and what an FA is. they are just people who decide to define themselves that way. refusing to address the issues that need to be improved and/or not tolerated is just driving more and more of the good guys totally away from the designation until most of what you have left representing are the ones with a whole lot of negative characteristics to display.

that by no means all FAs for sure but enough of them that i have that as my personal stereotype and so do a lot of guys who'd otherwise would not mind calling themselves FAs otherwise. the more we enable and hide our heads in the sand and do the things necessary to honestly help people along their way and pretend that everything is perfection the more BBWs are going to shy away from them altogether. 

the actual term FA is not a problem at all. its how people want to attribute things wholesale to it whether they are earned or not.


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## olwen (Jul 18, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> that's pretty much my reason to a point. most guys i know who are attracted to me don't need the label. the label tends to drag along a lot of negative expectations on a guys side who ascribe to it that i just don't want to deal with. i think that's why i'm friends with so many guys from dims who refuse to identify with the moniker even though they are absolutely bonkers for fat women. they see the exact same things i do and dislike them:
> 
> the basic assumptions about whether i have confidence or not, the idea that they should even have the right to prescribe how much i should weigh and what my shape should be based on their attraction instead of them moving on to who and what they are attracted to and leaving me alone to be me, the idea that somehow all of society is against me and find my body unacceptable and i have to accept that idea and just be grateful, that they the few are attracted, the idea that i am a second class citizen in many respects am not allowed to truly speak my real opinion and say my truth without policing, they have to define me and explain me to the public because my own voice can't possibly be enough, i have to jump around in a bikini to prove that i'm desirable, one set of rules for them and another for me, people who feel its fine if i bring everything to the table and they bring absolutely nothing of worth, guys who are scared scared scared of what other people think or they like feeling on the fringe odd freaky and kinky an di have to champion those feelings and act as if they are okay with me--otherwise i'm just a a mean girl.
> 
> ...



You mean like you just did with this post? 

Either it means very simply that a man is attracted to fat women, and/or it implies a certain type of behavior. How can removing behavior from the definition imply that the term would would justify an excuse for bad behavior? That any man who (is attracted to fat women) thinks it implies bad behavior hasn't done enough to dispel such ideas.

But really, since I doubt these ideas will change and that the negative aspects of desire will be forever associated with an attraction to fat bodies-like it can't ever be done in a normal and healthy way as long as it needs a label-there's no way to reach any sort of conclusion about the definition that would satisfy all.


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## katherine22 (Jul 18, 2011)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> This is such an old argument. I remember saying "I want a man who loves me for me, not my body." Look, everyone loves you for some reason. Men date women who are their type. Some guys like blondes, some brunettes, some short or tall or black or white or asian - the list goes on and on. I'm tired of the attack on FA's. I have several in my life (including my husband) and they're great guys who happen to love fat girls. Take away the term "FA" and their just men. It doesn't have to be so complicated.



I love how you cut to the chase.


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## superodalisque (Jul 18, 2011)

olwen said:


> You mean like you just did with this post?
> 
> Either it means very simply that a man is attracted to fat women, and/or it implies a certain type of behavior. How can removing behavior from the definition imply that the term would would justify an excuse for bad behavior? That any man who (is attracted to fat women) thinks it implies bad behavior hasn't done enough to dispel such ideas.
> 
> But really, since I doubt these ideas will change and that the negative aspects of desire will be forever associated with an attraction to fat bodies-like it can't ever be done in a normal and healthy way as long as it needs a label-there's no way to reach any sort of conclusion about the definition that would satisfy all.



lol, yes exactly--as you emboldened. i guess to clarify, pretending that those things don't exist and also protecting those behaviors while keeping up that pretense leads more men who don't agree with those things to move away from it. they don't want to be associated with the negative behavior that's tolerated or ignored that they don't exhibit. 

i think the best way to normalize things would be to also call those FAs who do stuff they shouldn't on anything you'd call other men on. that would be normal. but instead we act as if FAs are some retarded stepchild. we aren't giving them enough credit to know whats up. and by doing so we aren't appealing to the great guys who would ordinarily go ahead and call themselves FAs.

these negative aspects are not associated in my mind to loving fat bodies at all. its associated with messed up guys who are allowed to play on maladjusted just because no one wants to rock the boat or acknowledge exactly what they are doing or that they are even FAs because they make the rest look really bad.

lets face it FAs have a public face and a private face. right now the public face doesn't look so good. lets find some ways to improve it--and not by pretending that there are no issues.


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## olwen (Jul 18, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> lol, yes exactly--as you emboldened. i guess to clarify, pretending that those things don't exist and also protecting those behaviors while keeping up that pretense leads more men who don't agree with those things to move away from it. they don't want to be associated with the negative behavior that's tolerated or ignored that they don't exhibit.
> 
> i think the best way to normalize things would be to also call those FAs who do stuff they shouldn't on anything you'd call other men on. that would be normal. but instead we act as if FAs are some retarded stepchild. we aren't giving them enough credit to know whats up. and by doing so we aren't appealing to the great guys who would ordinarily go ahead and call themselves FAs.
> 
> ...



But you realize that by saying all of this you are perpetuating all the negative behavior and reinforcing a stereotype, don't you? 

I've never once thought an FA had a "public face" or a "private face" and I've never understood where all the vitriol directed at FAs was coming from, but after this thread I see why and I still don't understand it. _

Obviously_, just because someone calls themselves an FA shouldn't imply anything other than that they like fat women, yet there's all this baggage thrown in, and I really and truly do not understand why anyone would think adding that baggage to the definition should be acceptable. 

What makes a guy who is attracted to fat women and who calls himself an FA and who treats women badly different from a guy who is attracted to fat women and treats women badly, but doesn't call himself an FA? 

Wouldn't be more helpful to simply say "that guy is a creep" and leave it at that? All this other stuff is totally unnecessary.


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## superodalisque (Jul 18, 2011)

olwen said:


> But you realize that by saying all of this you are perpetuating all the negative behavior and reinforcing a stereotype, don't you?
> 
> I've never once thought an FA had a "public face" or a "private face" and I've never understood where all the vitriol directed at FAs was coming from, but after this thread I see why and I still don't understand it. _
> 
> ...




exactly! it would be. but you can't. you aren't really allowed. that's when it gets generalized to nearly everyone because specific talk is frowned upon or down right not allowed. never mind all of the highly specific and invasive comments often made about BBWs. even if you know something intimately and you have never had a reputation of lying on anyone and what you are saying is highly obvious you get shushed.


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## olwen (Jul 18, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> exactly! it would be .but you can't. you aren't really allowed. that's when it gets generalized to nearly everyone because specific talk is frowned upon or down right not allowed. never mind all of the highly specific and invasive comments often made about BBWs.



...I just have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe this is stuff that all happened before I joined the boards a few years ago and I'm just ignorant of the situation.


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## liz (di-va) (Jul 18, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> exactly! it would be. but you can't. you aren't really allowed. that's when it gets generalized to nearly everyone because specific talk is frowned upon or down right not allowed. never mind all of the highly specific and invasive comments often made about BBWs. even if you know something intimately and you have never had a reputation of lying on anyone and what you are saying is highly obvious you get shushed.



Felecia...I am calling your bluff. it's time for you to just say whatever it is you aren't saying. What happened? What are you talking about? There is something you talk around and around but never say. You can't condemn things in nonspecific ways and then expect people to know what you're talking about, much less care about it.

Name names, speak up. It'll all be modded away if it's rule-breaking anyhow. What are you talking about?


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## TraciJo67 (Jul 18, 2011)

liz (di-va) said:


> Felecia...I am calling your bluff. it's time for you to just say whatever it is you aren't saying. What happened? What are you talking about? There is something you talk around and around but never say. You can't condemn things in nonspecific ways and then expect people to know what you're talking about, much less care about it.
> 
> Name names, speak up. It'll all be modded away if it's rule-breaking anyhow. What are you talking about?


 
I don't have any idea what Felecia is talking about, but I do understand the reluctance to embrace the "FA" term because often it seems that it's about far more than a preference and, judging by the comments we so frequently see here, delves more into fetish land. I could (and happily do) accept that my husband likes curvy, plump, meaty, round, fat .... whatever the descriptive. It would be a deal-breaker if this were a requirement on his part, as in, he couldn't be attracted to me if I no longer fit that category. I wouldn't be able to accept such a narrow definition of what he finds beautiful about me, nor would HE be able to accept the fact that I've lost/gained/lost/gained hundreds of pounds in the last few decades. I think that some of the reluctance discussed here has nothing to do with confidence/lack thereof, and everything to do with what we, as people, are/are not willing to compromise about.


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## butch (Jul 18, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> Except I don't think that's what the label actually connotes. If it did imply that, there wouldn't be so many threads about FAs in the closet treating fat women like dirty secrets, which I've read about too many times to count on these boards.
> 
> I have found that a guy who is open to pair bonding with a fat woman doesn't necessarily have to prefer fat women at all either - and that seems to be the experience of others around here too. Bi-sizuals, or even people who don't really have any kind of specific preference at all, have also built happy, public relationships with fat women. It's not the exclusive domain of self-declared FAs.
> 
> As has been said in a dozen ways in this thread, and about a million times over these boards, there are guys who are FAs who are wonderful and open to forming caring relationships with fat women, and there are guys who do not have a specific preference for fat women who are wonderful and open to forming caring relationships with fat women.



I'm not saying that only FAs find fat women attractive and want to have LTRs with them-far from it. I'm just teasing out the difference between attraction and dating, and that they aren't always the same thing.

I was struck by the stories in this thread about fat women interacting with men, and once someone else calls it more than friendship, it gets all weird. My guess is, many guys in those scenarios are attracted, FAs or not, but they don't want to go against the grain and be with someone that is not considered 'sexually desirable' to mainstream culture. Something to explore a bit more, i think.

This may or may not also be useful to the discussion, but it may surprise some that there are gays and lesbians who don't identify with the sexuality labels, either. They associate gay and lesbian with girly campy sassy boys, and bulldagger rough gruff women, and want nothing to do with it. As gays and lesbians become more mainstream, they are less likely to vocalize this reluctance to embrace the labels gay and lesbian, especially now that this visibility is providing them with rights they didn't have before.

However, if you talk to them, they'll say they're no different from straight people, that the gender of the person they choose to date is no big deal, and nothing radically different from dating someone of a different gender; and yet, I doubt anyone would say they're not gay or lesbian. This to me sounds a lot like a certain type of non-FA FA, but then again, I've only ever dated one FA, and he is the apple of my eye (and self-identifies as a FA), so do with that what you will.


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## superodalisque (Jul 18, 2011)

i'm talking about the reluctance of or the ability to say openly whats going on, on an individual level


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## GlassDaemon (Jul 18, 2011)

I find this debate questionable mostly because, from my own personal experience, I can date someone whose "okay" in the appearance department, but if/when I fall in love with them, or just really really like them, it's almost like they look different. Features that could have been considered flaws or just unattractive become endearing and cute to me. 

The most obvious one I can think of is my boyfriend's eyebrows, they're HUGE! I mean, massive, bushy, monster brows, and I remember the first time I saw them and I wanted to laugh, they look so ridiculous. Now, I couldn't imagine him without them, I touch them, and trace them with my fingers, I nuzzle my nose into them. It's a feature of him that I absolutely LOVE! and he's more attractive to me for it.

My point is, I become more physically attracted to a person the more I romantically care about them. My boyfriend probably didn't think I was a goddess among women when he met me, he probably thought I was a little too thick and a little too hairy. Now, he laughs about it, he rubs my leg hair and kisses my belly and then proclaims to me that I'm gorgeous and beautiful like no one else. 

I don't really care if my partner is an FA or not, because if they like me, and they want to pursue a relationship with me, they'll either get over it or learn to love it, which if the relationship lasts more than 6 months, they'll probably learn to love it like they love the rest of me. I think it's kind of a must considering what we'll all look like in old age. You learn to love the person not the physique cause while we all look pretty good in our prime, it all gets wrinkly, gray/bald and saggy.


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## LovelyLiz (Jul 18, 2011)

^^^ I agree with this a ton, and want to burst into applause after reading it. Love changes everything.

All I know is that at periods when I have sought to only date self-identified FAs, in me that was coming from a place of fear. Fear that the guy would reject me when he saw me in all my fat unclothed glory. Fear that he would reject me if I didn't walk as fast or some other fat-related thing. Fear he would reject me if he had to put up with flak from family or friends. Fear that really if he experienced any kind of burden, large or small, stemming from my fat body, that he would do away with me.

But that risk is just part of all relationships - with an FA or not - he may decide he doesn't want to put up with some habit of mine (or I may decide that about him). I guess maybe the bodily rejection is just more wounding, so that's why that fear can be so powerful in influencing our dating choices?


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## cinnamitch (Jul 18, 2011)

GlassDaemon said:


> I find this debate questionable mostly because, from my own personal experience, I can date someone whose "okay" in the appearance department, but if/when I fall in love with them, or just really really like them, it's almost like they look different. Features that could have been considered flaws or just unattractive become endearing and cute to me.
> 
> The most obvious one I can think of is my boyfriend's eyebrows, they're HUGE! I mean, massive, bushy, monster brows, and I remember the first time I saw them and I wanted to laugh, they look so ridiculous. Now, I couldn't imagine him without them, I touch them, and trace them with my fingers, I nuzzle my nose into them. It's a feature of him that I absolutely LOVE! and he's more attractive to me for it.
> 
> ...



AMEN, well said


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## AnnMarie (Jul 18, 2011)

Couple of other thoughts, without much expansion on them. 

Nancy made a really interesting point, and I think it has some merit for me at least - that maybe there's two different women who don't have and do have interest in men who want a large partner - based on how they view their own fat body. (to be clear, I'm not talking about confidence and all that - just nodding at Nancy's theory, I find it interesting.)

Also, I seem to see a trend in that more women who consider themselves very open to many different body types wouldn't want someone who was specifically into a "range" or larger bodies as a preference. I just wonder how much that has to do with preferring or not preferring a guy who prefers large partners exclusively. 

I know that I have a size range preference and all, and while it's certainly taken twists and turns based on partners and interests, it's still in general in tact. I've never deviated out of it by 100-200lbs, which is what some are saying they do/want/accept, etc. 

I just think it's possible that knowing YOU are a person with a preference makes you more able to understand someone else's and realize that having a preference doesn't mean you're unyielding or closed off - it's just that, a preference. In a perfect world - something in this realm would be fantastic. 

Hell, we all do that with the insides of a person, I don't think attraction is different. Yes, it changes over time and love certainly alters how you view a person - I've been there, I'm not blind to that. But when discussing attraction, searching, discussing, learning, and moving toward people - we have our wants and needs. 


I don't care that everyone wants different things - in fact they should. I'm never going to force someone to want an FA (or someone who prefers a large partner who doesn't know a damn thing about this little world). And I don't see most here doing that either. I'm not putting down the men others want or meet - and I resent the hell out of the fact that the men I know and have loved get constantly belittled, cast aside and cast as the villain. 

As Liz mentioned - what is the point of it? Where are the words that are missing? If it all boils down to playing a villain for liking a body type, then maybe that's why I'm sympathetic - I'm just as guilty and so are most of my friends. I'm willing and able to admit and embrace my desires and my right to them - something I never thought I'd be able to do as a fat woman. I will never apologize for what I find attractive inside and outside a man, and I would never ask for it from another.


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## liz (di-va) (Jul 18, 2011)

liz (di-va) said:


> What happened? What are you talking about? There is something you talk around and around but never say.Name names, speak up.





superodalisque said:


> i'm talking about the reluctance of or the ability to say openly whats going on, on an individual level



[repeat]

I tried . Never mind!


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## superodalisque (Jul 18, 2011)

liz (di-va) said:


> [repeat]
> 
> I tried . Never mind!



are you trying to get me banned


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## liz (di-va) (Jul 18, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> are you trying to get me banned


Nope! Trying to get _you_ to do what you are saying other people aren't doing:


superodalisque said:


> _i'm talking about the reluctance of or the ability to say openly whats going on, on an individual level_


Anyhow, that's enough-a that.
- - - - - 


TraciJo67 said:


> I do understand the reluctance to embrace the "FA" term because often it seems that it's about far more than a preference and, judging by the comments we so frequently see here, delves more into fetish land.


This would be back to the definition-of-FA argument. I myself do not include fetishism in the general definition of FA. Sometimes it seems like a subset of being an FA, sometimes it seems like a wholly different thing, but I don't think they're the same thing. I fault Dims for not making this clearer, but I also think people here need to take responsibility for seeing this for themselves, for seeing that the average fat girl-liking dude probably doesn't wanna make her fatter or whatever. 

It's cool if that's his thing, though--and her thing--and it's handled in a consensual way. Why not? Who cares if they do? People have their Things. I see fat kinks of whatever intensity as like any other kinks out there: yours to really like if you really like it and those who don't won't care at all. Kink is kink. Assuming everyone in fatty-land likes fat kink is like seeing some older--Asian--skinny--whatever--couple into watersports or BDSM or latex and extrapolating to assume all people who look like that couple are into that. There are way too many fat people and FAs for that to be true.


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## superodalisque (Jul 18, 2011)

liz (di-va) said:


> Nope! Trying to get _you_ to do what you are saying other people aren't doing:
> 
> Anyhow, that's enough-a that.
> - - - - -
> ...



its not about kink or liking fat women. its not about being mad because some man likes someone fat. its about bad behavior that would be bad behavior that any man does that people are happy to ignore or pretend it doesn't exist as long as an FA does it. or worst yet he suddenly is not an FA because FAs are all perfect. the lack of realism makes the whole thing very suspect and attracts odd illogical ways of dealing with relationships and expectations that can be unhealthy for anyone, whether they are a BBW or an FA.

kinky is nice as long as the person with the kink is bringing it to you nicely and with care and with respect. the problem is there are some people who feel that the label FA gives them a bona fide reason not to that puts the reputation of other guys who might ordinarily use the designation at risk for bad association.


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## AnnMarie (Jul 18, 2011)

Maybe it's about the various definitions of bad behavior. 

Whatever. Most points have been made clearly and concisely, and those that haven't won't be (based on historical data).

Let's move on and maybe all the adult women here can make their own choices about who they will date and who they won't. We can all also decide what we will and won't tolerate in our lives. In all manner of speaking.


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## superodalisque (Jul 18, 2011)

AnnMarie said:


> Maybe about the various definitions of bad behavior.
> 
> Whatever. Most points have been made clearly and concisely, and those that haven't won't be (based on historical data).
> 
> Let's move on and maybe all the adult women here can make their own choices about who they will date and who they won't. We can all also decide what we will and won't tolerate in our lives. In all manner of speaking.




good deal! i appreciate that.


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## PeanutButterfly (Jul 19, 2011)

AnnMarie said:


> Couple of other thoughts, without much expansion on them.
> 
> Nancy made a really interesting point, and I think it has some merit for me at least - that maybe there's two different women who don't have and do have interest in men who want a large partner - based on how they view their own fat body. (to be clear, I'm not talking about confidence and all that - just nodding at Nancy's theory, I find it interesting.)
> 
> ...



I think this is such an excellent, excellent point! I wish it would let me rep you. I never thought of it this way but it's probably a big underlying factor in why there is so much debate on this topic.

If anyone has read any of my other posts, I make it pretty clear that I'm an FFA. I always have been. I like a fat guy and I like a guy who will have "fat sex" with me (to be blunt ). If you were to ask me my ideal soulmate I could tell you from a pretty early age and it always included someone who understood this part of me. That definition has slightly changed over the years but for the most part I tend to gravitate towards very similar men. And most recently that FA requirement has become more important but even before that most of the guys I've been into have had similar personality traits and even features (tall, dark and handsome, yum!) 

My point is basically an elaboration off Ann Marie's. Because I've always been pretty sure what I've wanted and gravitated towards men of that variety its kinda hard for me to comprehend that someone really doesn't have a "type" (whether that be weight related or not). And I think the vice versa is true. If you don't have a type it's probably hard to comprehend that someone else does. If you find most people attractive and acceptable to date than it doesn't make much sense that someone else would have a more narrow range of attraction. It's just the way people are wired. And it's definitely an interesting caveat to this little debate. I shall continue to ponder...


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## BHMforBBW (Jul 22, 2011)

Fallenangel2904 said:


> I thank everyone for their opinions here, no matter how you feel on the issue. It is interesting to hear everyone's take on things.
> 
> I must say with due respect to everyone, I don't really understand where all the dislike for FA's comes from (Not just from posts in this thread, in the community, around DIMS etc). It confuses me especially being that this is a size acceptance community. I am not berating anyone's opinions, we are all entitled to our own, we will not always see eye to eye and hopefully we will be able to discuss and debate our opinions in a mature and non judgmental way.
> 
> ...



I feel precisely the same way about FFAs! Well said!


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 23, 2011)

I'm not clear how a thread that asks the simple question "would you date a non-fa" could be construed as an "attack" on FAs. That title seems to indicate, to me, that dating a "non-FA" is something to be questioned, pondered and worried over.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 23, 2011)

TraciJo67 said:


> I don't have any idea what Felecia is talking about, but I do understand the reluctance to embrace the "FA" term because often it seems that it's about far more than a preference and, judging by the comments we so frequently see here, delves more into fetish land. I could (and happily do) accept that my husband likes curvy, plump, meaty, round, fat .... whatever the descriptive. It would be a deal-breaker if this were a requirement on his part, as in, he couldn't be attracted to me if I no longer fit that category. I wouldn't be able to accept such a narrow definition of what he finds beautiful about me, nor would HE be able to accept the fact that I've lost/gained/lost/gained hundreds of pounds in the last few decades. I think that some of the reluctance discussed here has nothing to do with confidence/lack thereof, and everything to do with what we, as people, are/are not willing to compromise about.



Excellent- I think you've hit the nail on the head. What I sometimes see/pick up on is a "narrowness" or "stinted" thought process that bugs the hell out of me when I think I might be put under that kind of limited microscope. It scares me, annoys me and just TURNS ME OFF completely about people in general- no matter what the "preference" is. 

Not saying that I am right or wrong in my own thought processes- just saying that this is what happens to me in my mind/feelings. I can't easily change that feeling any more than someone can change their body preference. 
For myself, I don't really care what a guy likes in general but I do feel more of an alarm/turn off at the idea of having to make myself "conform" to some other person's ideal of who/what I should be/am.

I do even realize the irony of my statement though- FAs can be considered "non-conformists" and I can dig that seven ways to Sunday. However, someone with the same ideals/feelings/preferences as myself is as important an issue as the difficulties of trying to be with someone of different religious and political leanings - Isn't it?


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## tonynyc (Jul 23, 2011)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I'm not clear how a thread that asks the simple question "would you date a non-fa" could be construed as an "attack" on FAs. That title seems to indicate, to me, that dating a "non-FA" is something to be questioned, pondered and worried over.



*G*reenie - I guess if the topic is bought up again in another Forum - then you could get the different perspectives of other voices. Too bad such discussions can only be via the internet- would make a great topic at a Size Acceptance event ( if it has not already been discussed)...


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 23, 2011)

GlassDaemon said:


> I find this debate questionable mostly because, from my own personal experience, I can date someone whose "okay" in the appearance department, but if/when I fall in love with them, or just really really like them, it's almost like they look different. Features that could have been considered flaws or just unattractive become endearing and cute to me.
> 
> The most obvious one I can think of is my boyfriend's eyebrows, they're HUGE! I mean, massive, bushy, monster brows, and I remember the first time I saw them and I wanted to laugh, they look so ridiculous. Now, I couldn't imagine him without them, I touch them, and trace them with my fingers, I nuzzle my nose into them. It's a feature of him that I absolutely LOVE! and he's more attractive to me for it.
> 
> ...



I not only found your post fantastic- but very touching


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## Power_Metal_Kitsune (Jul 23, 2011)

I don't get hit on any guy worth even schtupping, probably because I'm one of those"take no shit" so-called "masculine headbanger chicks" and nothing in my wardrobe is twee or cute or even sexy. I mean, I have been hit on by creepy bus guys on my way to school (I especially loved the homeless, toothless old guy who wouldn't shut up about my feet...) but my last few dates were with a a FA who only ever wanted to go out to eat, ,so I'd really rather not date an FA. Too much "hungry, sweet, nice, chubby" stuff going on. I want a CA (Chandi Admirer) instead.


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## AnnMarie (Jul 23, 2011)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I'm not clear how a thread that asks the simple question "would you date a non-fa" could be construed as an "attack" on FAs. That title seems to indicate, to me, that dating a "non-FA" is something to be questioned, pondered and worried over.




The thread wasn't an attack at all, and I don't recall anyone saying it was.


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## superodalisque (Jul 23, 2011)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Excellent- I think you've hit the nail on the head. What I sometimes see/pick up on is a "narrowness" or "stinted" thought process that bugs the hell out of me when I think I might be put under that kind of limited microscope. It scares me, annoys me and just TURNS ME OFF completely about people in general- no matter what the "preference" is.
> 
> Not saying that I am right or wrong in my own thought processes- just saying that this is what happens to me in my mind/feelings. I can't easily change that feeling any more than someone can change their body preference.
> For myself, I don't really care what a guy likes in general but I do feel more of an alarm/turn off at the idea of having to make myself "conform" to some other person's ideal of who/what I should be/am.
> ...



yes me too. its the lack of multifaceted nature of the thing as though one particular like or dislike will solve every possible issue a person could have with a partner their body or who they admire that seems odd stilted and unrealistic. people have so many interests and concerns when it comes to finding an SO in life, or at least they should if they are smart. acting like such a limited part of a person will solve everything seems very narrow minded to me too. so no one should be surprised to be left in the dust by people like that because you can bet they are actually pretty clueless about what is really important in a relationship or even what their own true needs are. 

its especially weird when you consider that the narrow tact is often taken by people who complain that the rest of the world won't accept them. how can they possibly know if they aren't even trying to give it an equal chance and aren't even a real part of it anyway? its like someone who never leaves their neighborhood but is always trying to tell you what the rest of the world is like definitely and in all cases. how can they ever know if they are so afraid of what might happen that they never get out there to really find out. 

IME making or accepting vocalized physical prescriptions with people someone hardly, knows that a person is trying to perhaps date, is the mark of a person who is probably emotionally behind and not yet ready for a decent relationship anyway. its too surface of a way to be dealing with other human beings. its an all about me mentality. the lack of care about hurting , offending , pigeonholing or limiting another individual person smacks of someone totally lacking in emotional intelligence anyway. accepting that from another person might make someone want to look at whether they have a tendency for co dependence, allowing themselves to be emotionally abused and/or being an emotional abuser themselves. love does not look like that. it doesn't come with its own list of requirements.

 you are right. it has absolutely nothing to do with attacking FAs. what it really has to do with is an honest unflinching look at why people can be or are so dependent on a particular mindset in order to be able to live in the world fat. really, there is no way to reconcile the fact that someone NEEDS to date FAs exclusively even when they acknowledge that FAs are men as well. FAs have the very same ability to disappoint or to satisfy as anyone else. they don't owe anyone blood straight from their veins so that they can live. they aren't responsible for or slave to our self esteem. actually they aren't truly any different from anyone else especially since most of our country, in particular, is full of fat people and the people who love them going about living their lives often without even a hint of an afterthought remorse apprehension or fear.

just maybe it would be more freeing for them if we stop treating them as other than what they really are--free men. but if we do that then that means they would be free to chose any size woman at any time they like. if they changed their minds about what they wanted it would be okay. they wouldn't have to say that beautiful fat women are a sexual preference. they could simply witness that there are beautiful fat women out there that they are attracted to. it would be okay if they were only attracted to fat women. it would be okay if they were attracted to other kinds of women as well. in other words they'd be free not to be guilted out by anyone for being with exactly who they want to be with. there would be no way to try to control them anymore. people can pretend its about saying FAs are bad. i don't understand how it can be bad at all to just say they are like all other men, and their preference isn't something that should be made such a a big negative deal of as if BBWs can't exist without them as some kind of emotional crutch, since that's what most of them seem to want out of life anyway. i think people SHOULD give the poor guys a break and stop trying to make them into sacrificial saviors on the cross of fat body dysmorphia. a BBWs true comfort with her body comes from inside. if that's NOT where she is getting it from its not real anyway. that has nothing at all to do with FAs. if she is too afraid to step out into life that's her issue.


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## spiritangel (Jul 23, 2011)

Power_Metal_Kitsune said:


> I don't get hit on any guy worth even schtupping, probably because I'm one of those"take no shit" so-called "masculine headbanger chicks" and nothing in my wardrobe is twee or cute or even sexy. I mean, I have been hit on by creepy bus guys on my way to school (I especially loved the homeless, toothless old guy who wouldn't shut up about my feet...) but my last few dates were with a a FA who only ever wanted to go out to eat, ,so I'd really rather not date an FA. Too much "hungry, sweet, nice, chubby" stuff going on. I want a CA (Chandi Admirer) instead.



You said that better than i did in my lack of sleep thing a few pages back  I 100% agree well I dont want a CA I want an AA(Amanda Admirer not alcaholic lol) but It think for me that is the crux of things I dont care fa, non fa just find me irresistable and love me inside and out and be a wonderful person lucky for me I may have found that


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## superodalisque (Jul 23, 2011)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I'm not clear how a thread that asks the simple question "would you date a non-fa" could be construed as an "attack" on FAs. That title seems to indicate, to me, that dating a "non-FA" is something to be questioned, pondered and worried over.



i can't understand it either, especially from women who are always talking about how fat and fabulous they are. why in the world would they be soooo cock sure they were definitely going to be rejected or only tolerated by a guy physically just because he doesn't need the community, a label or go to events to be with a fat woman? the underlying assumption is that ALL of the guys who either don't like,don't know or don't care what this stuff is absolutely think that absolutely every fat woman they run into is unattractive even though, especially among the younger set, most people ARE fat and most men ARE with fat women. no wonder so many young inexperienced FAs feel like the closet is safer. they are being scared to death by all of the unreality (i love making up words) on the net.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jul 23, 2011)

AnnMarie said:


> The thread wasn't an attack at all, and I don't recall anyone saying it was.



Sandie said she is tired of people attacking FAs a few pages back- that's what I was referring to. I haven't seen that in this thread myself either. Just the usual discussion/disagreement of what people here "prefer".


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## katherine22 (Aug 1, 2011)

[
]

Attraction to another person is complex and involving variables that we may not be conscious of. If someone is attracted to a woman's fat body that is an initial process of elimination for other body types. What I find offensive is that fat women think that all FAs are only attracted to fatness. In my experience, men I knew who were attracted to heavier women tended to be above average in intelligence, appreciated art and culture and had a regular job.


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## mossystate (Aug 1, 2011)

katherine22 said:


> [
> ]
> 
> Attraction to another person is complex and involving variables that we may not be conscious of. If someone is attracted to a woman's fat body that is an initial process of elimination for other body types. What I find offensive is that fat women think that all FAs are only attracted to fatness. In my experience, men I knew who were attracted to heavier women tended to be above average in intelligence, appreciated art and culture and had a regular job.



Perhaps in their experience, those particular women found that ' fas ' were only attracted to fatness. Your experience has been that men attracted to fat women tend to be higher in intelligence...etc...which will not be the experience of many other fat women. That's just how life works. I am not one of those fat women who automatically think all men who are ' fas ' are only attracted to fat, but I still don't want a ' fa '.


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## violetviolets (Aug 1, 2011)

My boyfriend of 4 years is not a FA at all. When we met I was thin but with some shape and now he still loves me which is amazing. However, now that I am big guys who are attracted to bigger girls are very interesting to me because I thought it was some kind of myth to be honest.


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## bettylulu (Aug 3, 2011)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Excellent- I think you've hit the nail on the head. What I sometimes see/pick up on is a "narrowness" or "stinted" thought process that bugs the hell out of me when I think I might be put under that kind of limited microscope. It scares me, annoys me and just TURNS ME OFF completely about people in general- no matter what the "preference" is.



I totally agree. It's no different then those people say, "I won't be with someone over 120 pounds/doesn't have green eyes/makes less then $100K, etc". It's like the partners other qualities cease to exist and removes their humanity. 

My husband has always preferred bigger girls and I have to admit I found it strange at first. But from my personal life to the media I was bombarded with messages that if I wasn't 5'4" with blonde hair, blue eyes, big boobs, a little waist and little hips, I'd never get a boyfriend let alone a husband. Even when I was slimmer I was surprised when men were attracted to me. So my unease was more about my own insecurity over my looks/body then to do with his preference for a more rounded lady.


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 3, 2011)

For the women who do only date FAs, it seems like a lot of that is so you don't have to wonder whether he enjoys your body, or whether he would prefer to be with someone thin. Like, maybe that it removes a certain level of insecurity or something? (That's the impression I've been getting, anyway.)

But I guess what I wonder is...does it actually work out that way?

It seems to me that insecurity is mostly tied to a fat person's feelings about her own body and her value and sense of attractiveness (assuming, of course, that the partner is reassuring and isn't belittling or something), and those issues would carry into any relationship, whether with an FA, non-FA, or someone who has no idea these terms even exist. Maybe the insecurities and questions would be *different* but body insecurity, and whether the other person liked you as you are, etc., seems to be more about the fat person's sense of herself than what the partner tends to prefer.


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## Jes (Aug 3, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> But I guess what I wonder is...does it actually work out that way?
> 
> .



You make a good point. If you read stories from stated FAs, we often see the 'I couldn't compliment her b/c she didn't believe me' story repeated. 

So it seems like for many of us, something is getting lost in translation.


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## MisticalMisty (Aug 3, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> For the women who do only date FAs, it seems like a lot of that is so you don't have to wonder whether he enjoys your body, or whether he would prefer to be with someone thin. Like, maybe that it removes a certain level of insecurity or something? (That's the impression I've been getting, anyway.)



Absolutely not, because they could always be attracted to someone different..either smaller, bigger, different hair color etc. There may be some women who go that route, but I think the majority of women that I know and that have posted actually enjoy being with an FA and don't seek one due to insecurities.

Things are just different with a man that enjoys a fat body.There's really no way to explain it. It's definitely something that probably needs to be experienced first hand to really, truly understand.


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## olwen (Aug 3, 2011)

MisticalMisty said:


> Absolutely not, because they could always be attracted to someone different..either smaller, bigger, different hair color etc. There may be some women who go that route, but I think the majority of women that I know and that have posted actually enjoy being with an FA and don't seek one due to insecurities.
> 
> Things are just different with a man that enjoys a fat body.There's really no way to explain it. It's definitely something that probably needs to be experienced first hand to really, truly understand.



Yeah, this.


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 4, 2011)

MisticalMisty said:


> Absolutely not, because they could always be attracted to someone different..either smaller, bigger, different hair color etc. There may be some women who go that route, but I think the majority of women that I know and that have posted actually enjoy being with an FA and don't seek one due to insecurities.
> 
> Things are just different with a man that enjoys a fat body.There's really no way to explain it. It's definitely something that probably needs to be experienced first hand to really, truly understand.



I have experienced it firsthand, actually. No long-term relationships with FAs, but some shorter-term relationships and affectionate experiences in the past with some. And I did appreciate certain things about it, for sure - but (for me) the things that were "better" with FAs I've been with were not all things that are at the top of the priority list for me in a relationship. So I guess I'm also trying to clarify whether there are other things I'm not realizing that are better, or that we just disagree on the degree of importance given to the things that I do already realize can be better with FAs.


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## superodalisque (Aug 4, 2011)

i feel ya Macbeth. its just that at a certain point once a person fully realizes that they can be attractive in different ways to different people they have to establish for themselves exactly how they like to be attractive to someone. some people want/need all the attention to their fat and that is fine as long as that's what they really want and enjoy. for me i like sexual attention and love my body to be appreciated too but maybe in not the same ways that women who want an FA do. i'd be bored and disappointed with it. i personally don't have any problems with a guy who likes to touch and caress my fat parts but its just not that important to me and its not what gets me off. i like to have what i consider to be my womanly parts appreciated more. to me being fat only accentuates those parts of me even more--which is nice i love my feminine power, for lack of a better term. 

besides all of that i'm highly concerned with having a relationship that doesn't have to be focused so much on my sexuality and what other people think of it. sometimes people make into too big of a deal. yes sex is a great part of life and i want pretty much all i can get with the person i care for but i don't feel i'm all that unusual and being fat does not make that any different from how anybody else feels. but even if it did who should care? its not their business anyway. to me, sex partners are interchangeable but love and relationship partners are not. i think a woman, even a fat one, can have sex with just about any man.

for myself i would find that it would be more difficult to have the kind of relationship i want with the FAs i've met because i don't generally care for how the obvious card carrying ones approach relationships body first or sometimes even fetish first. the guys who are attracted to fat women who don't approach it that way tend not to like to want to call themselves FAs because of that as well. we just have more in common.our core values are the same.


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## idontspeakespn (Aug 5, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> for myself i would find that it would be more difficult to have the kind of relationship i want with the FAs i've met because i don't generally care for how the obvious card carrying ones approach relationships body first or sometimes even fetish first. the guys who are attracted to fat women who don't approach it that way tend not to like to want to call themselves FAs because of that as well. we just have more in common.our core values are the same.



Yes, this I can understand. The concept of FA's is still new to me, so I'm trying to study the dynamic of it; whether it is a physical preference, a fetish, both, and how the definition of it changes with each person. 

I do however, would want someone to be attracted to me in a holistic way, one that is not solely driven by appearance. Of course I don't mind if a man has a preference for BBW's but I want him to be attracted to me, beyond my physicality. I'm not just my body.


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## MisticalMisty (Aug 5, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> I have experienced it firsthand, actually. No long-term relationships with FAs, but some shorter-term relationships and affectionate experiences in the past with some. And I did appreciate certain things about it, for sure - but (for me) the things that were "better" with FAs I've been with were not all things that are at the top of the priority list for me in a relationship. So I guess I'm also trying to clarify whether there are other things I'm not realizing that are better, or that we just disagree on the degree of importance given to the things that I do already realize can be better with FAs.



Just chalk it up to different strokes for different folks I guess.

Intimacy is probably a priority in a relationship for me...including sex, but also affection, etc.

Intimacy is where I see a difference. I also see it in the little things my husband does for me because he understands my size and my needs as a woman of size. It isn't a point of embarrassment for him. He doesn't have unrealistic expectations of what I can and can not do and he does not make me feel like an inconvenience or a hassle.

There are other things...special things...but that's all I really have left to say on the subject.


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## superodalisque (Aug 5, 2011)

i think there is sort of a misconception that those of us who don't necessarily date FAs take exception with, that somehow men who are not FAs aren't intimate. that's not at all true. the ways they show intimacy may be somewhat different at times but they are intimate, in fact extremely intimate and very sexually aroused as well. in my LTRs there was no just tolerating my body. in my longest we were fully sexual with one another nearly every night. we held one another and cuddled and caressed all of the time. just because a man isn't focused solely on fat does not mean he is not intimate or doesn't like your body and even appreciate the fat parts. it only means he may not gel with FA politics or he has a lot of other interests.

just because i personally haven't met any FAs i want to date seriously it doesn't mean i have no experience with them at all, so there is a basis of comparison there. having been in long termed relationships with a men who would not call themselves an FAs did not mean i was with men who weren't sensitive to or did not understand my needs. all men are human beings and individuals. if they are individually decent they will truly care about your personal needs anyway. going from experience i don't find FAs any more sensitive than anyone else. because of the fat community culture they can also be less sensitive of feelings etc... because they are often coddled and spoon fed things its taken for granted that all men should know--like just the basics of how to treat women. like most guys FAs have to learn too. unfortunately they are behind in being taught because everyone is so concerned about their feelings being hurt. often their needs seem to politically over take the needs of fat people when it comes to concern for feelings. 

i think its a real problem to assign things like intimacy understanding sensitivity and an intimate nature just to FAs. those are not characteristics that belong only to them. they are not characteristics they are guaranteed to have. they are just characteristics of a guy who is truly into you. also there could be the added complication of a guy not doing certain things out of care for a fat woman rather than just the fantasy of doing them for someone for their own personal satisfaction moreso than for the actual pleasure of their partner. all i can say is that i find it especially wonderful to have someone truly interested in doing things for me and my pleasure. there is a big difference between that and those guys who try to masquerade whats their own interest as a true interest in me.


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## MisticalMisty (Aug 5, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> i think its a real problem to assign things like intimacy understanding sensitivity and an intimate nature just to FAs. those are not characteristics that belong only to them. they are not characteristics they are guaranteed to have. they are just characteristics of a guy who is truly into you. also there could be the added complication of a guy not doing certain things out of care for a fat woman rather than just the fantasy of doing them for someone for their own personal satisfaction moreso than for the actual pleasure of their partner. all i can say is that i find it especially wonderful to have someone truly interested in doing things for me and my pleasure. there is a big difference between that and those guys who try to masquerade whats their own interest as a true interest in me.



No one is doing that Felecia. I know that men other than FAs can be intimate, but the intimacy can be different, in major ways.

Again, FAs are men and are prone to the same issues as men that are attracted to thin women.

It's really sad that you always defer back to the old argument that FAs are only capable of the fetish and the fantasy and none of the rest.

My husband is truly interested in doing this for me and my pleasure. He isn't masquerading his own interest as interest in me. I've never met a guy that has done that. 

But, you keep on believing what you want. I am going to bed...with my FA.


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## superodalisque (Aug 5, 2011)

MisticalMisty said:


> No one is doing that Felecia. I know that men other than FAs can be intimate, but the intimacy can be different, in major ways.
> 
> Again, FAs are men and are prone to the same issues as men that are attracted to thin women.
> 
> ...



i never said anywhere that FAs are ONLY capable of fetish and fantasy and none of the rest. those are your words.
i'm glad you've never met a guy like that. unfortunately many of us have. otherwise we wouldn't have the general opinion that we do.


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## mossystate (Aug 5, 2011)

Misty, just as you don't like people saying that all ' fas ' are only about the fat...it did strike me a little weird on your part to say what you did after quoting McBeth's post. I can't imagine many fat women ( human beings ) not having intimacy very much in the top 3 of things they want in a relationship. 

When a person cares deeply for another, the expression of that comes naturally and willingly. 

A ' fa ' might know about certain things they will run into being with a fat woman, but that doesn't mean they will be more sensitive to those things. That comes back to ...it depends on the person...and I will always come back to...a ' fa ' is simply someone who prefers fat bodies, and anything more about them as human beings is no different - not better or worse - than any other human being.


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## superodalisque (Aug 6, 2011)

its even worse when there are some people who spend all of that time learning about,focusing on and giving lip service to the particular needs of fat people but they won't employ them anyway out of some kind of willfulness. that's much worse than ignorance. ignorance can be changed but asshatery cannot.


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## MisticalMisty (Aug 6, 2011)

mossystate said:


> Misty, just as you don't like people saying that all ' fas ' are only about the fat...it did strike me a little weird on your part to say what you did after quoting McBeth's post. I can't imagine many fat women ( human beings ) not having intimacy very much in the top 3 of things they want in a relationship.
> 
> When a person cares deeply for another, the expression of that comes naturally and willingly.
> 
> A ' fa ' might know about certain things they will run into being with a fat woman, but that doesn't mean they will be more sensitive to those things. That comes back to ...it depends on the person...and I will always come back to...a ' fa ' is simply someone who prefers fat bodies, and anything more about them as human beings is no different - not better or worse - than any other human being.


The focus of most of my posts has been the intimacy issue. How different sex/making love *can* be with an FA. That's why I went there with my reply.

We agree on the last part. I've said that continually. It just chaps my hide when some continue with the argument that FAs will only focus on the fat and the fetish and that simply isn't true.

Again, sweeping generalizations never solve any problems. I know that I am a very lucky woman and know that for me, I made the right choice in choosing an FA.

It has always been that I've had more positive experiences with FAs than others. Others will have different experiences, I understand that. I just want women to hear both sides of the story.


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## superodalisque (Aug 6, 2011)

MisticalMisty said:


> The focus of most of my posts has been the intimacy issue. How different sex/making love *can* be with an FA. That's why I went there with my reply.
> 
> We agree on the last part. I've said that continually. It just chaps my hide when some continue with the argument that FAs will only focus on the fat and the fetish and that simply isn't true.
> 
> ...



i agree with you that not all FAs are going to totally focus on fat and fetish etc... i was thinking about where you're coming from and i can understand why you are angry. i remember when your husband used to chat with us all. he was always very polite and a gentleman. he never had very much to say about anyone's body unless he was being generally supportive of fat people as a whole. he never said anything at all about any fetish he might or might not have because it wasn't our business. he was saving that for someone that was important to him, like you are. unfortunately he was one of a very few who knew and practiced how to behave well. i can say that behavior carried over into real life. when we all finally met him he was just as respectful as he had been online. i was really happy when i heard that he was the person you were marrying because i knew what kind of person he seemed to be and i knew what kind of a person you were. i respected and appreciated the fact that he wasn't all over just any old person who would allow it. 

i guess what bothers me is that someone like him is lumped in with the other types who are more prevalent and generally have their ways supported and defended by the community. you know, i never think he mentioned the word FA around us once. he did not have to. he liked what he liked. he was supportive but he wasn't looking for any kind of sympathy and never acted like he needed any. he never tried to knock us over the head with the term and make us agree with something just because he was an FA. whatever he knew about how to accommodate our needs he put into action and not because he was interested. that's just how he was. he was genuinely decent to us. he wasn't just trying to score points to be redeemed later. he did not ignore women who actually might need his help just because he might not be sexually attracted to them.

unfortunately guys like that are a fairly rare bird, especially when it comes to those who are very vocal and highly visible. and it must piss you off to no end that he gets smeared with the same rep these other guys have. it pisses me off too. maybe we need to start telling those other guys to shut up more often. so you see we do have some things we can possibly agree on. i also resent the fact that guys like your husband etc..., and there ARE many others, have to carry the burden of the general behaviors you often see online and at events that are often upheld by people who should know better. actually, i remember that he was basically ignored by those kinds of people because he was not he type to use, abuse, and disrespect people or create drama around himself just to get attention. 

i think the term FA has been sullied beyond redemption by some of the others and it might need to be left behind for a choicer term for people who aren't so needy, power hungry and opportunist when it comes to fat women in particular . that might just solve the problem. and the guys who have left out of their real devotion and their lack of ability to associate themselves with something that makes their love and care for us seem so abnormal or emotionally, psychologically and physically predatory by others might decide to return to the fold.


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## fatgirlflyin (Aug 9, 2011)

I'm slowly getting involved with a guy who knows nothing about fa/sa/fat community and quite honestly I find it really refreshing. He's an EA and I'm kinda digging it.


I've never dated anyone who has said they prefer fat women exclusively, not that I wouldn't, just that someone who identifies as an FA has never asked me out. I married a man who liked women of all shapes and my most recent relationship was with a man who liked women of all shapes, both relationships had good and bad days.


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## SoCalFatGothChick (Aug 12, 2011)

I have been with a non-fa for over 5 years, and there are definitely some pros and cons. Although I appreciate finally having someone who sees me as a person and is not interested in banging every fat chick within a 60 mile radius, I don't feel as desired or admired as I did when I would date an FA. I can literally count on 1 hand how many times my significant other has complemented my on my looks in the 5 years we have been together, even throughout weight loss and weight gain. Nada. That part sux.


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 12, 2011)

SoCalFatGothChick said:


> I have been with a non-fa for over 5 years, and there are definitely some pros and cons. Although I appreciate finally having someone who sees me as a person and is not interested in banging every fat chick within a 60 mile radius, I don't feel as desired or admired as I did when I would date an FA. I can literally count on 1 hand how many times my significant other has complemented my on my looks in the 5 years we have been together, even throughout weight loss and weight gain. Nada. That part sux.



I think that's really sad that he doesn't make you feel appreciated and enjoyed on a physical level. From what I see of your pictures you are a really good looking woman, and that's really a bummer that he doesn't affirm you in that way. Is it that he truly doesn't find fat people as attractive, or is he just not a super verbally-praising type of person in general?

But I also want to say that non-FAs can also really enjoy the bodies of fat women, and can express that just as clearly (in verbal, physical, and other ways). My bf is not an FA, but he makes me feel sexy, beautiful, and physically desired/desirable very often. If that's something you desire, don't let him off the hook just because he's not an FA! It seems like something that should be shared in every romantic relationship, FA or not...no?


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## superodalisque (Aug 12, 2011)

i think its really about the person too Macbeth. some men are just more
overtly sexual than others. it makes neither type right or wrong but i don't think its a specifically FA thing. i've seen guys out and about with gfs of both types who hardly make any reference to their partner's sexuality at all. from persona experience i'm definitely pretty sure that body worship can come from either type.


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 12, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> i think its really about the person too Macbeth. some men are just more
> overtly sexual than others. it makes neither type right or wrong but i don't think its a specifically FA thing. i've seen guys out and about with gfs of both types who hardly make any reference to their partner's sexuality at all. from persona experience i'm definitely pretty sure that body worship can come from either type.



That's basically what I was trying to communicate - that affirmation of physicality can come from (or not come from) any guy, regardless of his aesthic preferences or lack of. Though I do think that part of what differentiates a romantic relationship from a friendship is the element of sexual chemistry and physical attraction, and the bodily enjoyment of one another.


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## superodalisque (Aug 12, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> That's basically what I was trying to communicate - that affirmation of physicality can come from (or not come from) any guy, regardless of his aesthic preferences or lack of. Though I do think that part of what differentiates a romantic relationship from a friendship is the element of sexual chemistry and physical attraction, and the bodily enjoyment of one another.



exactly. if you don't have that with either type the chemistry is probably just not really there.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Aug 14, 2011)

fatgirlflyin said:


> I'm slowly getting involved with a guy who knows nothing about fa/sa/fat community and quite honestly I find it really refreshing. He's an EA and I'm kinda digging it.
> 
> 
> I've never dated anyone who has said they prefer fat women exclusively, not that I wouldn't, just that someone who identifies as an FA has never asked me out. I married a man who liked women of all shapes and my most recent relationship was with a man who liked women of all shapes, both relationships had good and bad days.




I'm glad you have an EA- I have a CA myself. 

A man that doesn't make his physical preferences THE most important thing in a friendship/relationship/trust seems more realistic to me....more real in general. 

Do I expect everyone to date people they think are dogshit ugly? Nope- not at all. I like looking at men I find physically attractive that can make my heart beat faster. Do I NEED one? No..

If that is how I approach a new man, then it makes total sense to me to expect a man to approach/hold same expectations of me. 

Do I like it when a man tells me I am pretty or sexy? Hell yeah I do. Yet....it's much more important to me that he sees my strength, my kindnesses, my weaknesses, my downside, my aspirations, etc.....and still likes _me_. 
Expecting all that and needing Adonis to be the one that does it would seem like a mental lapse on my part so I prioritize what is MOST important and make that be the first thing I seek when meeting a new potential partner/interest (this goes back to what McBeth was saying about priorities).

I KNOW from personal experience that a man finding me physically attractive does not make an easy path to a good relationship/friendship. It just makes him try to have sex with me more often. It can also mean he doesn't pay me as much attention outside the bedroom as he does in it.

Perhaps that is just my own issue but I wonder about it in lieu of years of reading posts from women who say that sex is better with a "true FA". 

Who is having sex with a man that does not find they physically attractive- is that possible with or without an FA? Are there men in the world capable of that?
Not in my own experience- if they don't find me fuckable then it's usually obvious early on and they don't waste their time. 
So my big question is: What is the real difference between an FA and a non-FA? In my mind, it cannot be that "one finds me more attractive than the other" because any guy getting it up for you _is_ physically attracted to you in some way, shape or form. 
The reasons for a preference of an FA or non-FA have to transcend the physical- or that is my deduction. 

What am I missing....and would it even be something that would have to even necessarily apply to me as the person that I am?


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## AnnMarie (Aug 14, 2011)

*disclaimer: this is all about the sexual aspect of things, not partners or personalities - which is a different part of a relationship - different. I'm ONLY commenting on the physicality experience I've had and nothing else.*

When I first started having sex just before my 20s and into my early 20s, it was with anyone who would have sex with me. I made terrible decisions - was confused, not confident, and "fucking for hugs" as my friends and I call it. 

The guys were fully able to be with me and get off and I enjoyed aspects of it and it was somewhat fun. They clearly found something about the experience sexy, be it me or the situation or whatever. I think guys can get off in a lot of different circumstances, depending on the guy. 

Anyway, fast forward many years later to the first time I slept with an FA (who never said the word or anything, but NOW I get that he was). He touched my body and looked at me in ways that no one had ever. It wasn't a more meaningful relationship, so it wasn't based on my wonderful inner self, it was about my body. He devoured me with his eyes, his hands could not get enough, he was just soooo present and entranced and made me feel like a "super model" for lack of a better term. It was a life-changing experience. At the time I didn't know anything about men liking larger women, I had no idea such a person existed. I thought it was just this guy was overwhelmed by me - but when I met others much later and had similar experiences I fully connected the dots and realized that I'd just run across an FA by happenstance and that was it... I never looked back. 

No - not all FAs will be expressive and like that. People are different, but to me that is the potential for difference, and my own life experience backs it up, so I'm happy with my choices. 

Having had sex before, I didn't understand that I wasn't really getting the whole experience, so I certainly wasn't missing anything. But once I did have the experience, I thought, quite literally, "oh my God, this is what it's supposed to be like."

Some women won't care about that or ever miss a thing, and I don't think it's required to have any type of relationship, but for me... since I know what it is to me, then it's required. I want that part, and I haven't gone without that component in one way or another since then.


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## mossystate (Aug 14, 2011)

Caroline, great post.

Who knew so many fat women have been having sub-par sex, and it doesn't matter to them/us.


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## SoCalFatGothChick (Aug 14, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> I think that's really sad that he doesn't make you feel appreciated and enjoyed on a physical level. From what I see of your pictures you are a really good looking woman, and that's really a bummer that he doesn't affirm you in that way. Is it that he truly doesn't find fat people as attractive, or is he just not a super verbally-praising type of person in general?



I think it's moreso the latter. He has no problems groping me, slapping me on the ass, or other physical stuff, it's just that he has a problem verbally expressing it, and there's like no passion, just comedy. He doesn't like to get romantic or passionate, and everything he does to me has to involve something silly. Now I enjoy humor but come on...LOL :doh:


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## 1Agamemnon (Aug 14, 2011)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I'm glad you have an EA- I have a CA myself.
> 
> A man that doesn't make his physical preferences THE most important thing in a friendship/relationship/trust seems more realistic to me....more real in general.
> 
> ...



Well, guys might talk to you without being physically attracted to you, if you are interesting/likeminded, or do something that they obsess or value (an intercourse of a different nature) they may even become become obsesessed/love you but an FA, on the other hand, is different in that they have a wired obsession with weight &etc IMO.

In other words...

Speaking from experience, there are guys out there that (myself included), even if they don't find you attractive, per se, if they come to love you, they will find you attractive. This obsession, however, is a lot harder to build up than the FA obsession thats already there.

And the difference between an FA and non FA... well, supposing they find you attractive, well, I might not have this right, but I'll try to tackle it: you remember the feeling you get when you opened a present as a child, or read a book and there was something [new]... well, supposing you're in chemistry with an FA (you're an attractive fat girl, for instance), the non-FA has been through a lot with you, finds you to be a good person, and finds you attractive; the FA, on the other hand, upon seeing you forms an impression based upon their obsession, and well, depending on how we go from here will determine how they think of you. But the FA will likely be more sexually inclined, and 'wired' the way you are (if you share the obsession). 

Is it always a good thing to 'match' ? I don't think so, but a lot of times I think it can save a lot of trouble, and really help out communication. The FA, unlike the non-FA, will already have an obsession with you (sexually, and random other stuff), and I suspect that due to the chemistry, waking up to 'christmas morning' will happen much more often. 
That being said, I'm sure there are FAs out there that don't only look for sex, but also look for things that are 'an intercourse of a different nature' e.g. a partner that would share an obsession for business, movies, sci-fi <-- ME, etc, etc

Also, remember, attractiveness, and being fat (a component of playing into an FA's obsession) are two different things, when an FA sees someone that falls into this category, their eyes go wide. But remember, there are lots of states of mind, and I believe an FA can like you for more than your apparent eye-popping qualities .


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## superodalisque (Aug 14, 2011)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I'm glad you have an EA- I have a CA myself.
> 
> A man that doesn't make his physical preferences THE most important thing in a friendship/relationship/trust seems more realistic to me....more real in general.
> 
> ...



they wouldn't let me rep you. i can't understand either how fat women have been having lots of sex without FAs and enjoying the heck out of it if other men aren't really supposed to be attracted to them but hang around chase them around and have an easy time getting it up for them too. i think its really what some think is an insurance policy of some kind that's the real attraction. the only reason, besides mutual fetish, would be some kind of psychological security.


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## superodalisque (Aug 14, 2011)

a question i'd like to ask is, after all of the hungry eyes and hands what does it matter if he gets up in the morning and goes off to the next one as if nothing important ever happened? whats the point if after all of these years of being "appreciated" none of them truly wants you anyway? seems disappointingly empty to me after the supposed novelty of passionate sexual attraction has worn off. what of making the rounds of the same old tired social events and it making no real difference in the long run for many except that it makes them look jaded and unattractively burnt out. what of all of the lost and ignored opportunities that have passed many by for real love and support in their difficulties that last longer than the week of the bash? .what about all of the asexual or unsexual people out there posing as FAs?

i still don't see any real concrete evidence that anything is truly any different except that those who are so entrenched would probably leave a woman if her body ever changed for any reason, if he was actually ever truly with her anyway. i've been touched and looked at by both types of men. there is no difference because they are all men. the only real difference is who has staying power and who has more to bring to the table than a chubby for the night--if that. just about any man can have one. for most its not that difficult or obscure. 

i want a man's eyes to get big because i'm truly beautiful to him and not because i'm just some physical itch he needs to scratch by hook or crook with anyone of my type. i don't want a man who can ignore the fact that i don't like myself or feel myself as women as long as i'm just fat. i don't want a guy who gets off on my fear of my own sexuality and the preconceived notion that i'm undesirable to most.


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## TraciJo67 (Aug 14, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> a question i'd like to ask is, after all of the hungry eyes and hands what does it matter if he gets up in the morning and goes off to the next one as if nothing important ever happened? whats the point if after all of these years of being "appreciated" none of them truly wants you anyway? seems disappointingly empty to me after the supposed novelty of passionate sexual attraction has worn off. what of making the rounds of the same old tired social events and it making no real difference in the long run for many except that it makes them look jaded and unattractively burnt out. what of all of the lost and ignored opportunities that have passed many by for real love and support in their difficulties that last longer than the week of the bash? .what about all of the asexual or unsexual people out there posing as FAs?
> 
> i still don't see any real concrete evidence that anything is truly any different except that those who are so entrenched would probably leave a woman if her body ever changed for any reason, if he was actually ever truly with her anyway. i've been touched and looked at by both types of men. there is no difference because they are all men. the only real difference is who has staying power and who has more to bring to the table than a chubby for the night--if that. just about any man can have one. for most its not that difficult or obscure.
> 
> i want a man's eyes to get big because i'm truly beautiful to him and not because i'm just some physical itch he needs to scratch by hook or crook with anyone of my type. i don't want a man who can ignore the fact that i don't like myself or feel myself as women as long as i'm just fat. i don't want a guy who gets off on my fear of my own sexuality and the preconceived notion that i'm undesirable to most.


 
When I was younger, I had very large breasts. Once I was financially able to do so, I had a reduction mammoplasty. I was truly uncomfortable and in near constant physical pain, but was also aware that there were some men who were ... enamored, to say the least, of the immensity of my cup size. My breasts, to me, just ... were. Something attached to me, something that brought both pain and pleasure. I didn't like that sense of objectification that I got from some men. They truly could not have cared less what I looked like, who I was, or about anything but their fantasies about what they'd like to do to and with my breasts. It skeeved me out, frankly. If I could have detached them from my body and handed them over, it probably would have suited them just fine. 

I understand the feeling that you've shared, AnnMarie; it is exactly how I felt the first time that I made love with my husband. We were both very much present in the moment, and hyper-aware of every inch of each other. I know that while he enjoyed my body (as I did his), he wasn't focused on any one aspect of it. I still felt worshipped. He doesn't self-identify as an FA. Over the years, I've seen him sneak lustful glances at thin, young cheerleader types and at chunky mid-40's women dressed in power suits. If he did identify as such, or if he'd shown a prediliction towards fetishizing my breasts, I don't think that I could have stayed with him. Not because I disliked any aspect of myself, but because I'd fear (as SuperO highlighted above) that if I changed something about myself, he wouldn't be capable of adjusting to that change. As it is, I've gone from average to very fat to thin and my cup size has gone from off the charts to barely there. I know where his preference falls, but have never felt that I'm less than in his eyes. 

It goes without saying that not everyone with a preference has a staunch, unchangeable fetish. But the stronger the preference, the greater the fear (on my part) that there may be some inflexibility. I don't know how to explain it better than that. I just think of the men who would approach me when I was young -- usually much older, usually with an identifiable glint in their eyes as they failed quite spectacularly to meet mine. They didn't make me feel less than in any way; they just disgusted me. I would NOT have felt that way about someone who viewed the various attachments on my body as an extension of me. And yeah, I'm aware that some stranger in a bar isn't going to want to know me, and that we all have preferences, and that there's nothing wrong with that at all. I'm referring to the creeps who thought nothing of talking to my breasts. I can't help but see parallels in anyone who focuses on a body part, no matter what that is (size, color, feet, elbow dimples, etc etc) to the exclusion of the person.


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## Tracyarts (Aug 14, 2011)

So, here's another point to ponder...

What if you have multiple physical attributes that fall outside of the "norm"? In order to have the "Magical Superior Love Experience of the True, True Admirer" do you have to find a partner who has an exclusive preference for all of those attributes simultaneously? That seems about as rare and elusive as a unicorn. 

I don't get why fat is any different than other attributes. I'm a hair under 6 feet tall in my bare feet. I have never wondered if a man who was interested in me was a height fetishist, or just a guy who preferred tall women. I just assumed that he was into me for a valid reason and left it at that. And I surely never thought to wonder whether sex and romance would be better or "more" in some way with a man whose attraction to me was based in at least a significant amount because of my height.

Do women who are in other ways outside the "norm" of attraction question and analyze their relationships like this? Or is it just a fat thing?

Tracy


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## superodalisque (Aug 14, 2011)

Tracyarts said:


> So, here's another point to ponder...
> 
> What if you have multiple physical attributes that fall outside of the "norm"? In order to have the "Magical Superior Love Experience of the True, True Admirer" do you have to find a partner who has an exclusive preference for all of those attributes simultaneously? That seems about as rare and elusive as a unicorn.
> 
> ...



great question. it cuts to the core. it wouldn't let me rep you. notably i do have friends who are tall and self conscious about it. they always wear flats and walk hunched over. no matter how much you tell them they are beautiful they still relate back to childhood bullying and feeling gawky. hen they meet a guy one of the first questions is about how tall he is and whether he likes tall women. by no means are all tall women like that. a lot work it and realized that the long legs and graceful necks etc... work for them. they don't feel "manly" in the least either. they also have guys who fetishize them as amazons and some of them actually love that aspect whereas it creeps other tall women out. so i guess there are some parallels. i'm not sure if the tall stigma is as prevalent in women's mind as the fat stigma. but i guess if you feel different yourself and have been teased its enough if it was just bad for you.


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## CastingPearls (Aug 14, 2011)

Tracyarts said:


> snipped/
> 
> Do women who are in other ways outside the "norm" of attraction question and analyze their relationships like this? Or is it just a fat thing?




I too wonder about this. And also thin women who are insecure (I would say everyone isn't perfectly confident about EVERYTHING) do they do the same thing and assign some sort of magical thinking and attributes to their choice in partners/people attracted to them as well?


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## superodalisque (Aug 14, 2011)

i'm sorry but the "no one will be attracted to you but me" thing in any case whether the woman is tall thin or fat is extremely scary to me since its the core of emotional abuse. guys who work that aspect of a woman's insecurities are frightening. the other end of it is that the woman can actually honestly believe it and internalize and justify that mindset. if things didn't turn on that idea of a certain man or a certain type of man being the ONLY possible one to be attracted to a woman i might be more comfortable with it. but that alone makes me highly suspect. maybe its something we can do without? and without it we might be able to alleviate some of the creepy factor for guys who don't deserve that designation.


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## thatgirl08 (Aug 15, 2011)

I've been involved (from casual dating/casual sex to LTRs) with community guys, guys who are probably FAs but have never heard of the term and guys who would definitely rather be with a thin girl.

Some were great kissers. Some sucked. Some were good at communicating. Some weren't. Some cheated. Some didn't. Some brought me flowers. Some didn't have a single romantic bone in their body. Some introduced me to their family on the second date. Some never did. Some I wish I never let go and some I regretted getting to know at all. 

My dating history isn't exactly extensive but from what I've experienced, FAs as a group are pretty much like every other group of people on the planet.. some are horrible people, some will cheat and lie and hide you, some of them will hurt you.. but some of them are fantastic and won't. I used to be envious of my friends dating lives until I realized that at the end of the day they had to deal with the same shit I did.. some people are shitty and some aren't.. you're bound to run into some of the shitty ones at some point. I'm not going to dismiss an other wise great person because they're an FA, and I'm not going to give extra chances to someone who doesn't treat me well just because he is.


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## AmazingAmy (Aug 15, 2011)

I've been thinking more on this lately. I'm with everyone who says a man doesn't necessarily have to know the 'FA' label to be one, and that all they need to be is a fan of me who isn't attracted to me in _spite _of my weight.

But after joining a new BBW dating site recently, it's plain that there are fat admirers and lovers of fat women who don't know how to speak to us at all. They think we want to be told we're thin, that we're not _that _fat, that we're curvy, and plump, and of size, because anything else is an insult. They think we're fragile and irritatingly insecure, that we're on those sites because we're afraid of real intimacy and can't get anyone else. And when we don't return the interest, we're berated as not knowing how lucky we are, that we should be grateful. They don't understand us at all.

I know that FAs, ones aware of the 'community', can be dicks too. But at least they know it's okay to call me fat. They know I don't need to be fooled, or 'given a chance', or that personality is the most important thing yadda yadda. They don't for a minute think they're settling for something less, or that they're just plain freakish for what they want. And unlike men who'd just fuck a fat chick, FAs (the one's who aren't dicks) would actually date and marry us too. With pride.

After all that, I would a non-FA. But I don't have any hope, at all, that they'd ever truly understand me, or themselves. I've had far too many conversations trying to teach men how to talk to me, that this is okay, that that isn't okay, etc. FAs just get it.


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## Tracyarts (Aug 15, 2011)

" Some people just don't have a physical preference, I don't. There are physical attributes on a man that will turn my head, but I don't need them to feel attracted to someone and I certainly don't need them to pursue a relationship with that person. "

Agreed.

And it's not an all or nothing concept either. Just like a man does not have to be attracted to my fatness in order to find me attractive, neither does he have to overlook my fatness in order to find me attractive. To a lot of people my fatness JUST IS. Like my height, like my hair, like my skin color, etc... It's one piece of the puzzle and it doesn't have to be beautiful or ugly, it can be purely neutral and not hold any value in terms of how it adds to or detracts from my overall attractiveness.

Tracy


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## superodalisque (Aug 15, 2011)

thatgirl08 said:


> I've been involved (from casual dating/casual sex to LTRs) with community guys, guys who are probably FAs but have never heard of the term and guys who would definitely rather be with a thin girl.
> 
> Some were great kissers. Some sucked. Some were good at communicating. Some weren't. Some cheated. Some didn't. Some brought me flowers. Some didn't have a single romantic bone in their body. Some introduced me to their family on the second date. Some never did. Some I wish I never let go and some I regretted getting to know at all.
> 
> My dating history isn't exactly extensive but from what I've experienced, FAs as a group are pretty much like every other group of people on the planet.. some are horrible people, some will cheat and lie and hide you, some of them will hurt you.. but some of them are fantastic and won't. I used to be envious of my friends dating lives until I realized that at the end of the day they had to deal with the same shit I did.. some people are shitty and some aren't.. you're bound to run into some of the shitty ones at some point. I'm not going to dismiss an other wise great person because they're an FA, and I'm not going to give extra chances to someone who doesn't treat me well just because he is.



you said it much better than i could


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## superodalisque (Aug 15, 2011)

fatgirlflyin said:


> That nobody is gonna want you but me crap is ridiculous, and quite frankly is what abusers use to help isolate their partners.
> 
> Some people just don't have a physical preference, I don't. There are physical attributes on a man that will turn my head, but I don't need them to feel attracted to someone and I certainly don't need them to pursue a relationship with that person.



fanfreakingtastic!


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## bettylulu (Aug 15, 2011)

Tracyarts said:


> So, here's another point to ponder...
> 
> What if you have multiple physical attributes that fall outside of the "norm"? In order to have the "Magical Superior Love Experience of the True, True Admirer" do you have to find a partner who has an exclusive preference for all of those attributes simultaneously? That seems about as rare and elusive as a unicorn.
> 
> ...



I am also tall (about an inch shorter then you) and I can answer without a doubt, yes, a lot of tall women definitely have a complex about being tall. There is a forum I go to for tall women (at a smidge under 5'11" I am actually a short tallie) and a typical post is something like, "I was taller then everyone in my class all through school. The kids called me Green Giant, moose, or stretch. Everyone asks if I play basketball or volleyball or if I model. The boys all wanted to date the little, petite girls. I never wear heels and I hate being tall." But just like this forum, there are also women who are proud of their height and encourage others to rock it out. 

One thing I do find extremely interesting is that the women who seem to have the biggest issues being tall, are not the 6'4" and over group. It is more the 5'9" to 6' group. It's kind of silly to hate being tall, though. It's like hating having arms or the shape of your ears- barring an unfortunate, life-altering accident it's not going to change, so the only option is to accept it and deal with it. 

I never thought I had a "type" until I really realized the men I was most attracted to all looked like they could be related to each other. That's not saying those are THE ONLY men on Earth I find attractive. Finding people attractive and being attracted to someone are completely different things, IMO.


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## NewfieGal (Aug 15, 2011)

I've never dated what I would call an FA (although I guess they would have somewhat had to have been to have had a relationship with me) the men I have dated have dated skinny girls too... which leads me to ask the question ladies is it better to date a FA? Are you more comfortable knowing they are attracted to your size? The men I dated accepted me as myself but would their being an FA have made them more appreciative?


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## superodalisque (Aug 15, 2011)

something to think about. for people who truly believe that no one can truly want them except a certain person or a certain type of person were you ever subject to any kind of abuse? i'm not judging and you don't have to answer at all. its not a slap at how you think but because i truly care. just please think about it and whether maybe there is a pattern in how your experiences might make you feel and think about things.


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 15, 2011)

I've been thinking about the physical love issue with FAs vs. Non-FAs a bit since Misti and AnnMarie emphasized it as one of the things they find to be dramatically different with an FA, and something that makes an FA partner a lot more preferable to them. 

One thing I will say is different, that I notice in this aspect of things, is that an FA tends to sexualize more parts of a fat body right off the bat than someone who is not - like the belly, for example. Initially I thought this was because non-FAs were maybe grossed out by a fat stomach, but then I realized it's usually just that they're not used to such an abundance there, so it's not something they've become really accustomed to bringing into play in an intimate context. Like, it's more just off their radar than something that they're repulsed by. And I do think that as time goes on in a relationship, a guy who may not have had a lot of physical experience with fat women in the past still grows and learns about a fat body (and about the specific fat body of the woman he is with, since we are all different), and can fully enjoy it and relish it in much the same way that a seasoned FA might; but it just may not be something that happens quite so immediately, because they have not necessarily had as much exposure or spent as much time specifically thinking about what they'd like to do with every crevice of a fat body.

So I guess I'm just saying that I think the sexual difference between FAs and non-FAs can be a real thing, especially in casual encounters or at the beginning of a relationship. But I don't think that this aspect holds as much weight (pun! ) when looking at a long-term relationship, where there is opportunity for the sexual chemistry to grow and people learn each other's bodies and whatnot.


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## superodalisque (Aug 15, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> I've been thinking about the physical love issue with FAs vs. Non-FAs a bit since Misti and AnnMarie emphasized it as one of the things they find to be dramatically different with an FA, and something that makes an FA partner a lot more preferable to them.
> 
> One thing I will say is different, that I notice in this aspect of things, is that an FA tends to sexualize more parts of a fat body right off the bat than someone who is not - like the belly, for example. Initially I thought this was because non-FAs were maybe grossed out by a fat stomach, but then I realized it's usually just that they're not used to such an abundance there, so it's not something they've become really accustomed to bringing into play in an intimate context. Like, it's more just off their radar than something that they're repulsed by. And I do think that as time goes on in a relationship, a guy who may not have had a lot of physical experience with fat women in the past still grows and learns about a fat body (and about the specific fat body of the woman he is with, since we are all different), and can fully enjoy it and relish it in much the same way that a seasoned FA might; but it just may not be something that happens quite so immediately, because they have not necessarily had as much exposure or spent as much time specifically thinking about what they'd like to do with every crevice of a fat body.
> 
> So I guess I'm just saying that I think the sexual difference between FAs and non-FAs can be a real thing, especially in casual encounters or at the beginning of a relationship. But I don't think that this aspect holds as much weight (pun! ) when looking at a long-term relationship, where there is opportunity for the sexual chemistry to grow and people learn each other's bodies and whatnot.



this is a good point. does it really matter if what some people would term an FA is born or made?


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## Jes (Aug 15, 2011)

Tracyarts said:


> .
> 
> Do women who are in other ways outside the "norm" of attraction question and analyze their relationships like this? Or is it just a fat thing?
> 
> Tracy



Really good question.

For my own experience, I know that coming to Dims and reading and learning about the opinions and experiences of others actually made sex, with the same person I was sleeping with BEFORE coming to Dims, suddenly ...weird. And somewhat anxiety producing. Instead of feeling the very good feelings and being excited by sex, I was suddenly hyper aware of some things, and distracted by others. It seems like, for me, things went from just sex to This Means Something. Things I hadn't paid much or any attention to suddenly became things I started to question. I was very disappointed at that and had to work to make sure it didn't intrude on how things had been before.


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## EvilPrincess (Aug 15, 2011)

If your post magically disappeared, then the Moderator of this forum found it to be outside of the forum guidelines. Read the rules please.


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## AnnMarie (Aug 15, 2011)

A very specific question was asked regarding sex and I answered. To read more and/or less into my relationships, tolerances, or desires in a partner is way off base - and even my disclaimer can't stop the relentless twisting that occurs around here. 


TraciJo, I completely understand what you said. I dated a guy who was so fetishyly obsessed with my legs it was unreal. I could never, ever be with a person like that, and I'm not. It's one thing to have someone appreciate things and enjoy them, it's quite another to have a fixation on pieces. I would never tolerate that, which I think you understand about me because you read in context and follow complete thoughts and nuances. 


I appreciate that about you and your posts.


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## MisticalMisty (Aug 15, 2011)

AnnMarie said:


> *A very specific question was asked regarding sex and I answered. To read more and/or less into my relationships, tolerances, or desires in a partner is way off base - and even my disclaimer can't stop the psycho twisting that occurs around here. *
> 
> 
> TraciJo, I completely understand what you said. I dated a guy who was so fetishyly obsessed with my legs it was unreal. I could never, ever be with a person like that, and I'm not. *It's one thing to have someone appreciate things and enjoy them, it's quite another to have a fixation on pieces. *I would never tolerate that, which I think you understand about me because you read in context and follow complete thoughts and nuances.
> ...



Ditto. Both areas in bold especially!


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## mossystate (Aug 15, 2011)

Just as some so hate the language that seems like certain people are saying that ' fas ' only focus on the fat....some kind of hate the language that those of us who do not require or even want a ' fa ' are somehow missing something...that we don't want a certain level of imtimacy or sexual expression with our partners. So, I suppose one person's psycho twisting is anothers' making sure something doesn't fly.


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## MisticalMisty (Aug 15, 2011)

mossystate said:


> Just as some so hate the language that seems like certain people are saying that ' fas ' only focus on the fat....some kind of hate the language that those of us who do not require or even want a ' fa ' are somehow missing something...that we don't want a certain level of imtimacy or sexual expression with our partners. So, I suppose one person's psycho twisting is anothers' making sure something doesn't fly.



Mossy, you may be missing something. You'll never know if you don't try. Those of us that have and have voiced are opinions find there is a difference. Other's may not. That's true of any point of contention for any number of topics.

I don't think anyone is saying that women who chose not to be with an FA don't want intimacy or sexual expression and if that came from anything I've posted, it wasn't intended.

I can't speak for AnnMarie, but Felecia's post below suggests and other posts littered throughout this thread, that those of us who date/fuck/marry FAs are lacking in confidence, seek out an FA only for security, and demoralizes FAs into men that only get a "chubby" for "teh fat" and it can't be more than that.

I get there are 2 sides of the coin. I get that FAs are men and men can either be completely and totally awesome or they can be horrible, horrible, human beings.

Are there woman with low self esteem, etc. Yes. Not all of us fear our sexuality, or feel like we are undesirable and therefore "settling" for a man that wants our fat....and doesn't care about the rest.

There are those of you that don't care for an FA. That's fine. There are those of us that do. So, don't date an FA. Simple as that!




superodalisque said:


> a question i'd like to ask is, after all of the hungry eyes and hands what does it matter if he gets up in the morning and goes off to the next one as if nothing important ever happened? whats the point if after all of these years of being "appreciated" none of them truly wants you anyway? seems disappointingly empty to me after the supposed novelty of passionate sexual attraction has worn off. what of making the rounds of the same old tired social events and it making no real difference in the long run for many except that it makes them look jaded and unattractively burnt out. what of all of the lost and ignored opportunities that have passed many by for real love and support in their difficulties that last longer than the week of the bash? .what about all of the asexual or unsexual people out there posing as FAs?
> 
> i still don't see any real concrete evidence that anything is truly any different except that those who are so entrenched would probably leave a woman if her body ever changed for any reason, if he was actually ever truly with her anyway. i've been touched and looked at by both types of men. there is no difference because they are all men. the only real difference is who has staying power and who has more to bring to the table than a chubby for the night--if that. just about any man can have one. for most its not that difficult or obscure.
> 
> i want a man's eyes to get big because i'm truly beautiful to him and not because i'm just some physical itch he needs to scratch by hook or crook with anyone of my type. i don't want a man who can ignore the fact that i don't like myself or feel myself as women as long as i'm just fat. i don't want a guy who gets off on my fear of my own sexuality and the preconceived notion that i'm undesirable to most.


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## mossystate (Aug 15, 2011)

MisticalMisty said:


> Mossy, you may be missing something. You'll never know if you don't try. Those of us that have and have voiced are opinions find there is a difference. Other's may not. That's true of any point of contention for any number of topics.



The only...only...thing I, me, would be missing would be a very particular kind of focus on fat parts. I would never choose a man in the first place who wasn't very attentive and wanted me in a really big way. And one man who identifies as a ' fa ' is not going to be the same as the next man who identifies as being a ' fa ', so maybe you and some others are missing something. If I met a man who was exclusively into fat women...cool. If he is a ' fa '...not cool...for _me_. There is a difference...to meeeee and the way I see things. lol

*eta...oh, and, I am not gonna get into what somebody else is saying on the subject, because I am strictly in my own head


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## AnnMarie (Aug 15, 2011)

mossystate said:


> Just as some so hate the language that seems like certain people are saying that ' fas ' only focus on the fat....some kind of hate the language that those of us who do not require or even want a ' fa ' are somehow missing something...that we don't want a certain level of imtimacy or sexual expression with our partners. So, I suppose one person's psycho twisting is anothers' making sure something doesn't fly.



I never said anyone but ME was missing something. Speaking for me, with a very clear statement to that effect. I personally feel like I am missing something if it's not present. 

That absolutely does not mean anyone else is, should try to see if they are, date guys who like fat checks if they don't want to, on and on ad nauseum. 

I don't care or judge what anyone else wants, it's not my business. I just want to be left to my own wants without people (NOT YOU) telling me that I'm insecure, emotionally stunted, a victim of abuse, settling, not valuing my womanhood, etc.


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## Eclectic_Girl (Aug 15, 2011)

mossystate said:


> If I met a man who was exclusively into fat women...cool. If he is a ' fa '...not cool...for _me_. There is a difference...to meeeee and the way I see things. lol



Jumping out of lurkerdom to emphasize this. I think many of us are talking past each other because we define "FA" differently (I know this is not a new observation...) This statement really jumped out at me because, in my mind, FA=person exclusively into fat women. I have a feeling that the distinction you're making, mossy, is the distinction that in my mind is the difference between an FA and a person who fetishizes fat. I have similar feelings about them, but I call them different things in my head. 

I have no patience with or time for a guy who treats me like I'm a bunch of parts for his personal gratification. So I don't give those guys any of my time, regardless of how they self-identify. I do, however, have time for guys who are respectful and patience for the ones who aren't quite fully socialized yet, but are trying. (It's kind of a moot point, since all they'll get from this very monogamous lady is conversation, but the creeps don't even get that.) 

I have never dated anyone other than self-identified FAs, and I'm fine with that. I've been out there in the world for quite some time, and there was never a mutual interest between me and a non-FA that either of us pursued. Maybe we missed out, but maybe we didn't deserve that chance if we didn't have the gonads to take it. Maybe I'm lucky that I only found my gonads after I had found the SA movement and knew that guys who exclusively liked fat chicks existed. Maybe I missed out passionate love affairs, or maybe I missed out on meaningless sex. Whatever - I did what felt right and true to myself at the time, and there's nothing about that that feels like settling or poor self-esteem.


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## superodalisque (Aug 15, 2011)

MisticalMisty said:


> I can't speak for AnnMarie, but Felecia's post below suggests and other posts littered throughout this thread, that those of us who date/fuck/marry FAs are lacking in confidence, seek out an FA only for security, and demoralizes FAs into men that only get a "chubby" for "teh fat" and it can't be more than that.
> 
> I get there are 2 sides of the coin. I get that FAs are men and men can either be completely and totally awesome or they can be horrible, horrible, human beings.
> 
> ...



i agree with this to a good degree. i don't think every FA is a bad guy or a bad idea. what i do resist though is how much its frowned upon the question the local FA folklore. as long as people can recognize FAs are people its just fine. as long as its balanced and nobody is required to tow a party line that's comfortable. i personally don't care who other people partner up with. but what i do mind is a pretense that FAs are somehow unquestionably the perfect answer for everyone who is fat. sometimes they are. sometimes they are not. i know what works for me and thats enough.


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## superodalisque (Aug 16, 2011)

AnnMarie said:


> I never said anyone but ME was missing something. Speaking for me, with a very clear statement to that effect. I personally feel like I am missing something if it's not present.
> 
> That absolutely does not mean anyone else is, should try to see if they are, date guys who like fat checks if they don't want to, on and on ad nauseum.
> 
> I don't care or judge what anyone else wants, it's not my business. I just want to be left to my own wants without people (NOT YOU) telling me that I'm insecure, emotionally stunted, a victim of abuse, settling, not valuing my womanhood, etc.



and vice versa. its nice not to have people telling you that your lover's and people who you've had long term highly passionate and intimate relationships with are only tolerating you and can in no way think your body is beautiful because you are fat and something to be despised and they don't need a community or a term to make it okay. no thank you i'm not drinking that koolaide because that's not true for me.


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## Ahimsa (Aug 16, 2011)

I'm dating a closet FA right now and I must say it makes me feel happier than any date I had before. I'm calling him a closet FA because he calls me a BBW but he hasn't heard of the term FA or the community. He says he just isn't attracted to skinny girls. 

I had known for a while that he really liked my size, but he never told me before that I was a BBW; I didn't know he knew what that term meant. He makes me feel very confident about my looks because he's so openly appreciating of it. He'd told me before that skinny girls are a turn off for him, but I didn't know to what extent that really went. Now it turns out he's just not interested in anything but BBWs. 

I've been talking to him for months, and he's only recently brought up his preference for BBWs, so I know it's not only my size that he's interested in. He makes me feel very happy; in a way that no guy has before. Before I always had guys that ''accepted my size'', no I have one that prefers my size. It's such a huge difference!


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 16, 2011)

Ahimsa said:


> I'm dating a closet FA right now and I must say it makes me feel happier than any date I had before. *I'm calling him a closet FA because he calls me a BBW but he hasn't heard of the term FA or the community. He says he just isn't attracted to skinny girls. *
> *snipped*



That sounds great, Ahimsa! I'm happy you're with someone who treats you well and appreciates your body and who you are as a person.

Just a note to clarify about the term "closet FA." This is actually a negative term, and here in the community it means someone who is attracted to fat people but is ashamed or afraid of showing that publicly. So in public they will probably have thin partners, but they find fat women to have sex with privately because they don't want anyone to know that they like fat women (or men). Your bf sounds like he is dating you openly, and is very comfortable with his preference for bigger women, so he does not seem like a "closet FA" in the way the term usually gets thrown around here...


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## Ahimsa (Aug 16, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> That sounds great, Ahimsa! I'm happy you're with someone who treats you well and appreciates your body and who you are as a person.
> 
> Just a note to clarify about the term "closet FA." This is actually a negative term, and here in the community it means someone who is attracted to fat people but is ashamed or afraid of showing that publicly. So in public they will probably have thin partners, but they find fat women to have sex with privately because they don't want anyone to know that they like fat women (or men). Your bf sounds like he is dating you openly, and is very comfortable with his preference for bigger women, so he does not seem like a "closet FA" in the way the term usually gets thrown around here...



Ah ok thanks for clarifying that for me, I'm a newbie to this community as well :happy:

In that case, he indeed is no closet FA because he's very open about his preference for large girls


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## mossystate (Aug 16, 2011)

Ahimsa said:


> Ah ok thanks for clarifying that for me, I'm a newbie to this community as well :happy:
> 
> In that case, he indeed is no closet FA because he's very open about his preference for large girls



You don't need the silly labels! Just go on living and loving.


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## EvilPrincess (Aug 16, 2011)

Please notice the thread title change. This is not retro-active, nor does it give permission to use this space to rant against the FA/FFA. 


Now returning you to your regularly scheduled programming.


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## liz (di-va) (Aug 16, 2011)

mossystate said:


> If I met a man who was exclusively into fat women...cool. If he is a ' fa '...not cool...for _me_. There is a difference...to meeeee and the way I see things.



To me, a man who is exclusively into fat women is an FA. I mean, that's the definition of it, as I think of it. So how are you defining FA?

Articulating this distinction might go a long way toward figuring out what the hell people are arguing about here. 

Or not.


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## superodalisque (Aug 16, 2011)

liz (di-va) said:


> To me, a man who is exclusively into fat women is an FA. I mean, that's the definition of it, as I think of it. So how are you defining FA?
> 
> Articulating this distinction might go a long way toward figuring out what the hell people are arguing about here.
> 
> Or not.



i can't speak for Mossy, but for me an FA is a guy who says he's an FA. a man has a right to define himself no matter what he likes or doesn't like in much the same way that i can choose to call myself a BBW or not. who knows better than he does whether that designation reflects him and his values. i think its presumptuous to call a man one even though he doesn't want to call himself that. i can't tell someone what their identity is. they have the right to define themselves. all i personally know is that i like men who have no need or want of the designation best because they generally totally refuse to engage in things i personally don't care for politically and otherwise--hence the abstention. in the end it makes no difference if he has that designation because he can still love and be attracted to a fat woman. he doesn't need FA stamped on his forehead to be capable of that.


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## Saoirse (Aug 16, 2011)

I dont think Ive ever been with an "out FA" (i hate say saying that) and its not like I ask anyway, but damn near all of them said they loved my body. oooh and i loved all of their bodies as well :eat2:


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## superodalisque (Aug 16, 2011)

Eclectic_Girl said:


> Maybe I'm lucky that I only found my gonads after I had found the SA movement and knew that guys who exclusively liked fat chicks existed. Maybe I missed out passionate love affairs, or maybe I missed out on meaningless sex. Whatever - I did what felt right and true to myself at the time, and there's nothing about that that feels like settling or poor self-esteem.



i respect everything you said. i just want a lot of younger women to see and feel earlier that they CAN take the chance just so they don't have to wonder. i don't want them to have to see being fat as ANY kind of a limitation. they can then choose an FA because they feel they want to and not because they feel they have no other choice at all. maybe even guys who consider themselves FAs might even like that better--not to feel that they are just something fat women are stuck with. maybe it would make some of them more proud and more confident in their mate if they knew she felt she could be attractive to anyone and had a choice and the beautiful woman chose them? 

i personally don't want fat women to take it for granted in every case that being fat will/should inhibit them. if we do encourage that idea then we may as well say the messed up media is right. who knows, they may have a different reality not so full of what ifs, because they WILL know from experience because no one, who is supposed to know how beautiful they are, has made them too afraid even before they put a foot out of the door. but before any of us can help to do that or do that for ourselves we have to see exactly what it is that we are doing or feeling and here it came from. people don't keep to a small group because they've always had great experiences and everyone has always treated them right. people limit their experiences to avoid certain things. they fear something. the fears have to be faced and conquered otherwise you end up living only half a life. they end up coloring everything a person does and making decisions for them that they might not ordinarily make. its not so much about making the choices we make its about why we make the choices we do and not letting fears rule us. we don't feel uncomfortable with people because we are fearless.


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## PeanutButterfly (Aug 16, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> i respect everything you said. i just want a lot of younger women to see and feel earlier that they CAN take the chance just so they don't have to wonder. i don't want them to have to see being fat as ANY kind of a limitation. they can then choose an FA because they feel they want to and not because they feel they have no other choice at all. maybe even guys who consider themselves FAs might even like that better--not to feel that they are just something fat women are stuck with. maybe it would make some of them more proud and more confident in their mate if they knew she felt she could be attractive to anyone and had a choice and the beautiful woman chose them?
> 
> i personally don't want fat women to take it for granted in every case that being fat will/should inhibit them. if we do encourage that idea then we may as well say the messed up media is right. who knows, they may have a different reality not so full of what ifs, because they WILL know from experience because no one, who is supposed to know how beautiful they are, has made them too afraid even before they put a foot out of the door. but before any of us can help to do that or do that for ourselves we have to see exactly what it is that we are doing or feeling and here it came from. people don't keep to a small group because they've always had great experiences and everyone has always treated them right. people limit their experiences to avoid certain things. they fear something. the fears have to be faced and conquered otherwise you end up living only half a life. they end up coloring everything a person does and making decisions for them that they might not ordinarily make. its not so much about making the choices we make its about why we make the choices we do and not letting fears rule us. we don't feel uncomfortable with people because we are fearless.



I'm probably going to get flamed for this so I'm not really sure why I'm bothering but I just wanted to remind you what its like to be both young and fat. I finished high school pretty recently and let me tell you, being a fat girl wasn't easy. I had a lot of guys who didn't want to date me because I was fat. Would they hook up with me? sure. Did they enjoy my company, want to talk for hours, and act like they cared? yep, they all did. What they didn't do was ask me to prom, hold my hand in the hallway or answer "yes" when our mutual friends would ask if they were interested in me. Just because those guys were able to find my body attractive behind closed doors but not be seen with me in public does not make them an FA, at least in my opinion. I know these guys would have prefered if I was thin and I could feel this when we were together. These are guys who would hook up with anything with boobs but only want to be seen with the thin, conventionally beautiful girls. Any fat girl who hasn't experienced this kind of jerk is really really lucky.

I'm in college now and I'll tell you the scene hasn't changed much. Frat parties arent filled with the enlightened male looking to give the big girl with the heart of gold a chance. It's just not reality. I'd love to think that every hunky guy I see at the gym would love to get to know me but unfortunately many of those guys are the same jerks in high school who loved my personality but didn't want to be seen with me. So yes, fat girls have a limited dating pool, especially the young ones you want to encourage to take a chance on "mainstream" guys. 

It's not that we're letting our fat limit us. I put myself out there. I go to parties and join clubs and socialize with guys in my dorm. Yet I'm somehow the friend while other girls get to be the romance. The difference? Those girsl are all well under 200 lbs. Maybe this changes as people age and realize that society's opinions arent as important as their own. Or maybe physical appearance begins to matter less and less while personality traits start to matter more. Both of those things are wonderful signs of personal growth. I know there are men out there who don't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks but they are a rare breed and I don't have the time or energy to sift through the myriad of doucebags out there when I know I could come on Dims and find a bunch of men who want me at first glance.

From my experience the first and one of the only guys who never made me feel like my size was a need for apology is an FA. Thats the difference between him and the so called normies. I know he prefers women my size and he's proud to be with me. And more importantly I've never felt like I had to stay fat to please him, just that I am fat and he admires what being fat does to my body. Like I always say when I mention him I'm well aware he's a really really good guy and I'm lucky to have found someone who would love me no matter what so young. I know not all FAs are as great as he is, just like all non-FAs are as jerky as the ones mentioned above. That being said, I feel like now that I've experienced being with someone like this I wouldnt go back into dating guys who dont prefer bigger women. It's a road I've been down and I found it to be rocky at best, devastating at worst. I believe that other women have found non-FAs who have made them incredibly happy and if that randomly happened to me I wouldn't be against it, but I'm not going to spend my energy looking for men who wont admit to themselves or society that theyre attracted to me. Once again not all FAs are out but I wouldnt waste my time on them either. I want to know for sure before I get romantically invested that the man in question is into big women and isnt afraid to show it. Just my personal preferance, especially at this stage in my life.


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## superodalisque (Aug 17, 2011)

PeanutButterfly said:


> I'm probably going to get flamed for this so I'm not really sure why I'm bothering but I just wanted to remind you what its like to be both young and fat. I finished high school pretty recently and let me tell you, being a fat girl wasn't easy. I had a lot of guys who didn't want to date me because I was fat. Would they hook up with me? sure. Did they enjoy my company, want to talk for hours, and act like they cared? yep, they all did. What they didn't do was ask me to prom, hold my hand in the hallway or answer "yes" when our mutual friends would ask if they were interested in me. Just because those guys were able to find my body attractive behind closed doors but not be seen with me in public does not make them an FA, at least in my opinion. I know these guys would have prefered if I was thin and I could feel this when we were together. These are guys who would hook up with anything with boobs but only want to be seen with the thin, conventionally beautiful girls. Any fat girl who hasn't experienced this kind of jerk is really really lucky.
> 
> I'm in college now and I'll tell you the scene hasn't changed much. Frat parties arent filled with the enlightened male looking to give the big girl with the heart of gold a chance. It's just not reality. I'd love to think that every hunky guy I see at the gym would love to get to know me but unfortunately many of those guys are the same jerks in high school who loved my personality but didn't want to be seen with me. So yes, fat girls have a limited dating pool, especially the young ones you want to encourage to take a chance on "mainstream" guys.
> 
> ...



as long as you are giving life a shot and you find someone who is really good to you i know its not easy all the time for everyone in all circumstances. just leave all of your doors open like you seem to have done. its perfectly okay to want an an FA. i'm just glad for you that you're not totally discounting something else that could possibly walk through your door though.


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## SoCalFatGothChick (Aug 17, 2011)

PeanutButterfly said:


> I'm probably going to get flamed for this so I'm not really sure why I'm bothering but I just wanted to remind you what its like to be both young and fat.



Oh, I remember being young and fat like it was yesterday. The only difference is that noone even wanted to hook up with me in secret! lol....I had a couple of very hurtful and humiliating experiences in high school where I told a couple of male friends that I was interested in more than friendships with them. (One of them had the nerve to spout off to everyone what a fat and disgusting pig I was, and he was heavier than me, go figure!) By the time I graduated I seriously had no hope of ever finding anyone, and then I discovered the internet and BBW community. Although my experiences with dating within the community were less than stellar, I formed many great friendships and met some very inspiring and encouraging people. I eventually became confident enough to "expand my horizons" to meeting people outside the community, and that is when I found love. It does get better as you get older. Most people start to learn what's really important as they mature.


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## Eclectic_Girl (Aug 17, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> i respect everything you said. i just want a lot of younger women to see and feel earlier that they CAN take the chance just so they don't have to wonder. i don't want them to have to see being fat as ANY kind of a limitation.


So you're advocating that they not participate in Western culture or attempt to have relationships with anyone who does, then? You can reject the dominant paradigm all you want, but unless you find someone also rejects that paradigm, you're SOL. Men who are naturally attracted to fat women (not just tolerant of fat or so "enlightened" as to see beyond the physical - viewpoints that take very few young men have the maturity to hold) have a biological imperative to date fat women. I would not want to be with someone who wanted to date me as some sort of reactionary political statement - that seems phony to me. The ideal, for me, is someone who acknowledges the pressures of society but acts according to their own preferences anyway. I don't give a crap what label they apply to themselves as long as they have the courage to be true to who they are, but if identifying as an FA and sharing their experiences with other guys who have had the same struggles against societal pressures helps them, I'm sure as hell not going to think less of them for using the label.



superodalisque said:


> they can then choose an FA because they feel they want to and not because they feel they have no other choice at all. maybe even guys who consider themselves FAs might even like that better--not to feel that they are just something fat women are stuck with. maybe it would make some of them more proud and more confident in their mate if they knew she felt she could be attractive to anyone and had a choice and the beautiful woman chose them?


I would hope that any healthy relationship would consist of both partners considering themselves lucky that the other person chooses to be with them. Girls, if you feel like you're stuck or settling in a relationship, get out of it. It's better to be single and in charge of your own destiny. But, in my opinion, needing to feel attractive to everyone (because that is how you're using "anyone") is more about vanity and is doomed to disappointment, given the wide diversity of people's individual tastes. And needing to believe that your partner is attractive to any/everyone in order to appreciate them is too other-centered to be healthy. In my opinion. 



superodalisque said:


> i personally don't want fat women to take it for granted in every case that being fat will/should inhibit them. if we do encourage that idea then we may as well say the messed up media is right. who knows, they may have a different reality not so full of what ifs, because they WILL know from experience because no one, who is supposed to know how beautiful they are, has made them too afraid even before they put a foot out of the door. but before any of us can help to do that or do that for ourselves we have to see exactly what it is that we are doing or feeling and here it came from. people don't keep to a small group because they've always had great experiences and everyone has always treated them right. people limit their experiences to avoid certain things. they fear something. the fears have to be faced and conquered otherwise you end up living only half a life. they end up coloring everything a person does and making decisions for them that they might not ordinarily make. its not so much about making the choices we make its about why we make the choices we do and not letting fears rule us. we don't feel uncomfortable with people because we are fearless.



I'm not sure I followed all this at the end (have you considered capitalization as a kindness to your readers?). But if I did get what you were trying to say, I disagree with your assertion that people stick to small groups because of fear. Humans group themselves along all kinds of lines, including similar worldviews and interests. And there is some research that there is actually an upper limit to the number of people one can have meaningful social relationships with (see Dunbar's number). Why wouldn't a person choose to invest that limited relationship energy with people who openly believe the same things? Certainly, it would be limiting to avoid contact with anyone outside your circle, but most people have to deal with others anyway, just to go to work and accomplish the basic chores in life. Mostly, I don't care what people think of me, as long as they treat me with the basic respect all humans deserve. I especially I don't care whether anybody outside my chosen community wants to date me (although if the fact that they don't want to date me prevents them from treating me with the aforementioned respect, I do care - in that I judge them as a person of flawed character). But I don't need my plumber to want to date me: I need him to fix my garbage disposal. When I'm looking for someone to date, I look to people I know feel the same way about being fat. Like PB said, I don't have the time or energy to sift through the fat-hating douchebags to get to the fat-positive guys.


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## Jes (Aug 17, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> people don't keep to a small group because they've always had great experiences and everyone has always treated them right. people limit their experiences to avoid certain things. they fear something. the fears have to be faced and conquered otherwise you end up living only half a life. they end up coloring everything a person does and making decisions for them that they might not ordinarily make. its not so much about making the choices we make its about why we make the choices we do and not letting fears rule us. we don't feel uncomfortable with people because we are fearless.



that's the god's honest truth. i wish i understood this (and believed it) better when i was younger, and, if i'm honest, even now. 

Well said, Felecia. I think it's a really important point to make, especially on a board for fat women that has a bunch of age ranges expressed. There are things those of us over a certain age can try to impart to those of us under a certain age.


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## bettylulu (Aug 17, 2011)

PeanutButterfly said:


> I'm probably going to get flamed for this so I'm not really sure why I'm bothering but I just wanted to remind you what its like to be both young and fat. I finished high school pretty recently and let me tell you, being a fat girl wasn't easy. I had a lot of guys who didn't want to date me because I was fat. Would they hook up with me? sure. Did they enjoy my company, want to talk for hours, and act like they cared? yep, they all did. What they didn't do was ask me to prom, hold my hand in the hallway or answer "yes" when our mutual friends would ask if they were interested in me. Just because those guys were able to find my body attractive behind closed doors but not be seen with me in public does not make them an FA, at least in my opinion. I know these guys would have prefered if I was thin and I could feel this when we were together. These are guys who would hook up with anything with boobs but only want to be seen with the thin, conventionally beautiful girls. Any fat girl who hasn't experienced this kind of jerk is really really lucky.
> 
> I'm in college now and I'll tell you the scene hasn't changed much. Frat parties arent filled with the enlightened male looking to give the big girl with the heart of gold a chance. It's just not reality. I'd love to think that every hunky guy I see at the gym would love to get to know me but unfortunately many of those guys are the same jerks in high school who loved my personality but didn't want to be seen with me. So yes, fat girls have a limited dating pool, especially the young ones you want to encourage to take a chance on "mainstream" guys.
> 
> ...




Being "the fat girl" has NEVER been easy and, unfortunately, your experience is not new or unique. When I was a freshman, I liked a guy who was a junior and my friend and I called him. Since freshman are invisible to everyone but other freshman, he couldn't picture me, but we got on really well on the phone. Well, he and his friend came over and I could just see the disappointment on his face. They left after standing around awkwardly for the longest 5 minutes of my life. Then, for the rest of my freshman year, I started getting shoved into lockers, tripped, yelled at, and having my books pushed out from under my arm and kicked down the hall by this jerks friends while he stood there and laughed at me. Why?? Because I was fat and dared show interest in him?? Let's not forget the extremely popular senior who thought it was just hysterical to single out unattractive, unpopular freshman, grab their asses while we were leaving the lunchroom in a huge herd, and when the freshman would turn around or say something to him, him and his asshole friends would hoot and holler like it was the funniest thing ever to humiliate these girls.

When I was in college, I was about 180 pounds (I'm 5'11, so I wasn't skinny, but I wasn't obese). I was sort of seeing this guy. At a party one night, I was talking to his friend. He kept telling me all these really horrible things that my date had done in the past. Basically telling me I was going out with a huge dork. The friend was friendly to me and we seemed to get along okay. A few days later I was talking to my guy and and jokingly poked fun at him for one of the things the friend had told me. My guy told me that after I went to my dorm, my guy asked the friend (Ken, remember that for later) why he was telling me those things. Ken said, "Because I was trying to save you. That girl was fucking huge! You can do better then a fat ass like that!" But my roommate and I got revenge later. We started drunk prank calling him and leaving messages like, "Fat girls loooooooove Ken!" "Ken, I'm eating a plate of nachos and thinking of you!" "Ken, the fatties are coming for you!" Ahhh...the days before caller ID. 

But you know what, my girlfriends who were petite and thin didn't have things really that much easier. Maybe their dating pool was wider, but it was just as shallow. Anyone who fell outside the stereotypical, American definition of what is a pretty, popular high school girl, didn't get many dates either. They would also get the whole "You're cool, but....." or the private hook up that would be publicly denied. That's not to say that guys didn't like girls who were bigger, but to go against the herd at that point in your life is extremely difficult. The pressure to blend in is overwhelming and anyone who is brave or stupid enough to stick their neck out, usually gets their head chopped off. I'm not saying it's right or I agree with it, but it is what it is.

I am lucky that I met my husband when we were both 21. He's awesome and loves bigger girls. I wish someone had told me at 17 when I was crying over some loser that I would meet my husband at 21. We were talking about our college partying days and he was telling the story of talking to a girl outside party and his friends dragged him away because she was big. I asked him how big was big and he said, "About 300 probably. She was cute and cool. But my friends kept dragging me away every time she was around, so I couldn't talk to her anymore." So he did have the desire for bigger girls, but at 18, he just didn't have the ability to stand up to his friends at that point. Finally he just said screw it and I'm going to like who I am going to like. It does take maturity to do that and that comes when it comes. Sometimes it never comes and people never get that ability to stand up against societal pressure, but who wants someone that mentally weak anyway? 

I am confident that being in your clubs and socializing you will meet someone (or multiple someones) who like you not _because_ your fat, not _in spite of_ your fat, but because you are *awesome*.


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## liz (di-va) (Aug 17, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> i can't speak for Mossy, but for me an FA is a guy who says he's an FA. a man has a right to define himself no matter what he likes or doesn't like in much the same way that i can choose to call myself a BBW or not. who knows better than he does whether that designation reflects him and his values. i think its presumptuous to call a man one even though he doesn't want to call himself that. i can't tell someone what their identity is. they have the right to define themselves. all i personally know is that i like men who have no need or want of the designation best because they generally totally refuse to engage in things i personally don't care for politically and otherwise--hence the abstention. in the end it makes no difference if he has that designation because he can still love and be attracted to a fat woman. he doesn't need FA stamped on his forehead to be capable of that.



Felecia...I'm not calling anybody anything. I was asking Mossy how she defines "FA" because the difference in the way people do so seems connected to the broader differences people are articulating here.

Clearly when I use it it means something else than when you use it. If you'll notice, several pages back I said that we (women, since this is the BBW board) are capable of navigating choosing relationships with men whether they call themselves that or not.

I use it mostly because we need a way to talk about people who like fat people on this board--where that's the ONE THING WE ALL HAVE IN COMMON--and I'm fine using "_FA_" rather than "_personwholikesfatpeople_" every single time. I'm kind of exhausted with all the connotations people dump on the term. Pro and con. As far as I'm concerned it's a fine term. Maybe there is a better one, but the point is that this self-selected group of people will always reach for one to manage communication.

I'm repeating myself, but I think this site does a bad job of making a distinction between fat kink/fetish and general fat preference. It confuses people--especially people who are new to all of it--a lot, sometimes so much that they get appalled and leave. 

But at a certain point you gotta look around and notice the world around you, take responsibility for knowing more. If you really think that every person who calls oneself an FA is into funnel feeding and morphing, then you're wrong. It's just a kink (or two). Fat sexuality encompasses a lot of different behaviors, orientations, kinks (or lack thereof), politicism (or not), and prioritization. To me FA is just a portmanteau term to manage talking about it most of the time.

And if you don't want to talk about it, why are you here?


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## superodalisque (Aug 18, 2011)

liz (di-va) said:


> Felecia...I'm not calling anybody anything. I was asking Mossy how she defines "FA" because the difference in the way people do so seems connected to the broader differences people are articulating here.
> 
> Clearly when I use it it means something else than when you use it. If you'll notice, several pages back I said that we (women, since this is the BBW board) are capable of navigating choosing relationships with men whether they call themselves that or not.
> 
> ...



where have i said every FA anything? i know that all FAs aren't into fetish as i've said often. i never mentioned anything like funnels etc... trying to paint a derogatory picture of guys who do call themselves FAs. even if they are so what? its not a fetish that matters. i don't hold fetish in disdain because there are ways to engage in it in a respectful fashion. its how someone brings a fetish to you if they have one at all. its whether its something a woman personally is into. its easy to paint certain opinions as FA hating but when i get right down to it i believe it might be more respectful to them not to expect less of them or advocate being totally emotionally dependent on them for one's own self worth because we have to accept personal responsibility for that. what is wrong with them deciding for themselves who and what they are. are the men here who dislike the term personally for themselves doomed to have to carry it just to make life easier for someone else? whats so scary about taking a man as an individual? why the big overwhelming need to suss out something that there really might not be a definitive one size fits all answer to anyway? why not just look a man in the eye and decide for ones self whether the individual man likes an individual woman? whats so hard about that? if a woman seriously thinks that just being fat is enough with any man , even an FA then she is misguided. it takes more for him and hopefully for her too. if we need to talk a person who likes a fat person why not just use the person's name? i don't mind being exhausted writing a phrase that i think is more respectful of everyone. i don;t mind typing a phrase that's less marginalizing and more normalizing simply because i know there are a lot of men here who prefer not being addressed that way and i know its not loaded with stereotypes and they're less vulnerable to being pigeonholed, as one of them said.

when people insist they are more comfortable because they think everyone else will reject them i feel its a reason deserving examination. some FAs will make a woman comfy and be all she needs, some will not. its the people involved and not the term just as many men visiting this site have often said on the FA forum about relating to BBWs, if anyone ever bothered to pay attention to any positions there besides those that they somehow think are the "norm" in the community. they chose a woman first for whats inside even though she's attractive. they might flirt and look at or have sex with a beautiful woman but if she has nothing else they don't want to be bothered. just being fat is not enough. whats wrong with us understanding the same? is it somehow okay for us to dehumanize where we don't want to be? is the term all a fat woman should need from a man? is it everything she's looking for? do you really think it has or will solve very problem she has? i don't think its out of line to ask what taking that tack has gotten people so far?

maybe its just me, but even though its not the same thing, i can't picture gay people running around trying to figure out if someone else is gay who approaches them for a relationship or otherwise. i'm not sure they'd second guess themselves that much. they'd understand that perhaps someone might be in the closet etc... but i seriously doubt that they would be as afraid that someone who comes at them in the romantic vein isn't at least into them sexually. people who aren't interested at all usually don't show up to the party anyway. gay people have a lot of social issues to deal with but i think they pretty much know when someone is interested in them as much as anyone can know. why do we need all of these faux mechanisms to figure out something so simple. i could see FA being used as a shorthand for political reasons just like gay people use their terms out in the world but i really can't see them approaching it that way in a dating situation. that's an entirely different can of worms. the day i see hundreds of FAs out marching somewhere i might reconsider my own position.

i'm not here to talk about and to terms. i'm here to talk about and to other human beings. they have things called names that i can use--a very novel concept they can be fat and feel that fat people are lovely to look at. they are already here anyway. why not just take it for granted that they want to be? besides that the real world doesn't work in forum shorthand. it works on a person by person case by case basis.

you can be Liz and i can be Felecia. if that's good enough for us why isn't it good enough for the guys we are interested in?


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## superodalisque (Aug 18, 2011)

Eclectic_Girl said:


> So you're advocating that they not participate in Western culture or attempt to have relationships with anyone who does, then? You can reject the dominant paradigm all you want, but unless you find someone also rejects that paradigm, you're SOL. Men who are naturally attracted to fat women (not just tolerant of fat or so "enlightened" as to see beyond the physical - viewpoints that take very few young men have the maturity to hold) have a biological imperative to date fat women. I would not want to be with someone who wanted to date me as some sort of reactionary political statement - that seems phony to me. The ideal, for me, is someone who acknowledges the pressures of society but acts according to their own preferences anyway. I don't give a crap what label they apply to themselves as long as they have the courage to be true to who they are, but if identifying as an FA and sharing their experiences with other guys who have had the same struggles against societal pressures helps them, I'm sure as hell not going to think less of them for using the label.
> 
> 
> I would hope that any healthy relationship would consist of both partners considering themselves lucky that the other person chooses to be with them. Girls, if you feel like you're stuck or settling in a relationship, get out of it. It's better to be single and in charge of your own destiny. But, in my opinion, needing to feel attractive to everyone (because that is how you're using "anyone") is more about vanity and is doomed to disappointment, given the wide diversity of people's individual tastes. And needing to believe that your partner is attractive to any/everyone in order to appreciate them is too other-centered to be healthy. In my opinion.
> ...



i don't mind if you want to reject my paradigm. its your life to live as you want. i just feel sorry that it seems to agree with the very fat prejudice we are all supposedly out to change. i don't know how we are supposed to change any prejudice by forming our lives to say that their viewpoint is right and will always be right. i thank goodness that i believe in more and see more positivity.

no one is saying anyone has to pick up a nogoodnick off the street. and yes people do often limit the number in their social group. but there are all kinds of groups we belong to. we have our professional groups, familial groups, friends , love interests etc... no one is saying anyone has to change their friends etc.. but these groups are also fluid. and,even though they remain small they vary in terms of what they are based on. if the main interest of a group is the prejudice they suffer then yes they can and do gather out of some kind of need for emotional safety. that's not against group psychology at all. it doesn't work against biology either. no matter how "civilized" we feel we are, we are still animals and maintain certain tendencies. if people are picking an FA because he just so happens to be in their social group that's very different than saying its because they are afraid of rejection by someone else. i was addressing that particular statement and focus which had been illustrated several times in this thread. in a case like that it is fear because its not just based on who you know but also about how someone feels about the world and their place in it. if i said i made a lot of friends in the NAACP you can bet that fear had some part in my decision to make that as a center to my world. it means that the fear generated by racial oppression was central to my life. where our friends come from and the issues they have aren't a meaningless exercise. we choose certain things for a reason.

i've never looked to be tolerated or looked beyond and i'm not afraid i'll be rejected by guys just because they don't have FA stamped on their foreheads and won't submit a sexual history before i decide i'm worth his attention. its not vain to say that i'm not hideous to everyone just because i'm fat. its not vain to say that i have a chance to meet someone when i'm just out and about living my life and i don't have to worry and mine for the rarest gem on earth --someone who is attracted to me. i'm just as desirable as any woman of any other size. i'm different but beautiful in my own way. i don't feel i need a specialist to see that because i MUST be so unattractive to absolutely everyone else. i can choose that if i want or something else altogether. i have the choice and the feminine power just like any other woman my size if she doesn't buy into every last negative stereotype she's ever been exposed to about herself. i leave you to your paradigm as well. i definitely don't want it. there was a time when fat was the preferred size. what caused that paradigm to shift? it was people and how they operated in the world and what they thought of themselves. it changed in one direction. it can change back again. nothing is set in stone. nothing is final. the fat lady HAS NOT yet sung.


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## superodalisque (Aug 18, 2011)

bettylulu said:


> Being "the fat girl" has NEVER been easy and, unfortunately, your experience is not new or unique. When I was a freshman, I liked a guy who was a junior and my friend and I called him. Since freshman are invisible to everyone but other freshman, he couldn't picture me, but we got on really well on the phone. Well, he and his friend came over and I could just see the disappointment on his face. They left after standing around awkwardly for the longest 5 minutes of my life. Then, for the rest of my freshman year, I started getting shoved into lockers, tripped, yelled at, and having my books pushed out from under my arm and kicked down the hall by this jerks friends while he stood there and laughed at me. Why?? Because I was fat and dared show interest in him?? Let's not forget the extremely popular senior who thought it was just hysterical to single out unattractive, unpopular freshman, grab their asses while we were leaving the lunchroom in a huge herd, and when the freshman would turn around or say something to him, him and his asshole friends would hoot and holler like it was the funniest thing ever to humiliate these girls.
> 
> When I was in college, I was about 180 pounds (I'm 5'11, so I wasn't skinny, but I wasn't obese). I was sort of seeing this guy. At a party one night, I was talking to his friend. He kept telling me all these really horrible things that my date had done in the past. Basically telling me I was going out with a huge dork. The friend was friendly to me and we seemed to get along okay. A few days later I was talking to my guy and and jokingly poked fun at him for one of the things the friend had told me. My guy told me that after I went to my dorm, my guy asked the friend (Ken, remember that for later) why he was telling me those things. Ken said, "Because I was trying to save you. That girl was fucking huge! You can do better then a fat ass like that!" But my roommate and I got revenge later. We started drunk prank calling him and leaving messages like, "Fat girls loooooooove Ken!" "Ken, I'm eating a plate of nachos and thinking of you!" "Ken, the fatties are coming for you!" Ahhh...the days before caller ID.
> 
> ...



especially the part in red. they wouldn't let me rep you.


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## bettylulu (Aug 18, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> especially the part in red. they wouldn't let me rep you.



Haha! It's the thought that counts.


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## AnnMarie (Aug 18, 2011)

My life is positive/pleasure driven, not fear driven. I go toward positive experiences, people and things. It's not fear that pushes me to a path, it's positive feelings that pull me in that direction. 

Many of us operate that way, and to say fear is the motivator in selected, small circles is not only condescending, it's just incorrect. If it's true for some, then yes, it's a harmful motivator, but any assertion that it's the norm is reckless and heavy handed. 

I hate this circular, never-ending, dog-chasing-tail vortex, but when things are said that are so accusatory and condescending to so many women and men that I love and call friends, I have no choice but to chase my tail so there is a clear counter statement.


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## thatgirl08 (Aug 18, 2011)

The fantastic part about all of this is that every single one of us gets to choose who we want to date without explaining or rationalizing to anyone. I get why this discussion comes up, but I don't really get why some people seem to be so invested in proving other people wrong. At the end of the day, as long as people are doing what feels right for them, who cares?


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## superodalisque (Aug 18, 2011)

AnnMarie said:


> My life is positive/pleasure driven, not fear driven. I go toward positive experiences, people and things. It's not fear that pushes me to a path, it's positive feelings that pull me in that direction.
> 
> Many of us operate that way, and to say fear is the motivator in selected, small circles is not only condescending, it's just incorrect. If it's true for some, then yes, it's a harmful motivator, but any assertion that it's the norm is reckless and heavy handed.
> 
> I hate this circular, never-ending, dog-chasing-tail vortex, but when things are said that are so accusatory and condescending to so many women and men that I love and call friends, I have no choice but to chase my tail so there is a clear counter statement.




i wouldn't say it was necessarily the norm. i wouldn't say it was an absolute. i only think it should be examined. and just maybe it is a problem if the ONLY place people are capable of finding pleasurable experiences in their lives are with people of their own size or people within a narrow community--especially for those who have either no or virtually no real experiences to base that assumption on and are operating as a mature adult as if the whole world is still their local high school. Betty is right. fat phobia is so fluid and for some a lot of it is age oriented or esposure oriented. as some people age they start to understand how important it is not to sacrifice what they really want to some kind of artificial standard. so the choices they make are not going to be the same as they were when they were in high school. tons of guys here can attest to that. 

20 yrs ago i think it would have been more understandable but today when we have so much exposure to so many more different kinds of people it might be something people should think about just to make sure that they are giving everyone a chance to know and like them and not making assumptions based on some very narrow perimeters. that's the same they would ask for themselves when being assessed by someone else. i remember when the t.v. show "Friends" was popular. it was a valid question when people asked why they were no black friends or asian friends or latino friends, and i would add fat friends. in think it was important for people to really think about why that was. it was a very important question that made people think about who they brought into their own lives and maybe whether their lives had gotten too small or too limited. i dunno, but i have all kinds of friends and its enriched my life a whole lot. i think its only fair that if i am asking people to accept me and give me a chance that i do the same. otherwise its seems like a selfish exercise to people you're asking that of.

sorry if you find what i say condescending but i'm trying to give a straight unblinking honest personal opinion and have a straight exploration. it is what it is. yes pleasure is important in life. i believe in pleasure a lot myself, but i also believe its hard for me to have all that much pleasure by being limited. limitations do not equal a pleasurable life to me. i have friends all over the world from all walks of life in all sizes who are attracted to all kinds of people. i personally like it. and i'd like to keep it that way for me. living in an all fat world would be just as boringly depressive to me as living in an all thin world.


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 18, 2011)

I'm not sure whether AnnMarie's post is also directed at me, but to be clear on my viewpoint, I think there is definitely pleasure to be had with FAs, and I am happy for any and all who have rewarding and good relationships with them. My only further push on this is that there is also pleasure to be had in relationships with guys who are not strictly FAs, or who don't know what that is. Sometimes they need to learn some of the unique ways of enjoying a fat body, since they maybe haven't been thinking about that exclusively since puberty - but it can happen. And depending on what people find to be most important in a relationship for them, they may or may not be willing to take the time to explore and build this aspect with a non-FA.

Us fat women do, in my experience, have a smaller dating pool. There are still plenty of guys in it, but a typical 105 pound girl is almost always going to have a higher number of potential suitors than a typical 305 pound girl. But love and true connection is such a rare thing anyway, I just think it's good to keep an open mind and heart in case it comes from a direction that surprises you (be it an FA or a non-FA, as the case may be).


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## superodalisque (Aug 18, 2011)

i wish i had put it that way Macbeth


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## Carrie (Aug 18, 2011)

AnnMarie said:


> My life is positive/pleasure driven, not fear driven. I go toward positive experiences, people and things. It's not fear that pushes me to a path, it's positive feelings that pull me in that direction.
> 
> Many of us operate that way, and to say fear is the motivator in selected, small circles is not only condescending, it's just incorrect. If it's true for some, then yes, it's a harmful motivator, but any assertion that it's the norm is reckless and heavy handed.
> 
> I hate this circular, never-ending, dog-chasing-tail vortex, but when things are said that are so accusatory and condescending to so many women and men that I love and call friends, I have no choice but to chase my tail so there is a clear counter statement.


Nail, meet hammerhead. 

You know, I have also heard the other side of this argument's coin, where assertions are made that women who will NOT date FAs don't out of some dissatisfaction with their body, discomfort with the idea that a man finds her fat body attractive, etc. I think that is an equally narrow-minded and erroneous assumption to make as that women who DO date FAs are fearful or fetish-driven or have low self-esteem and are settling, blah, blah. 

We're all a product of our own experiences here, but that doesn't mean we have to project them on to others' choices. I can choose to date FAs (who are also good men, who are 100% into Carrie-as-a-whole-being, thank you very much), based on my own experiences, and still support Mossy's decision not to, and think it is fucking awesome that mcbeth is in a kickass relationship with a non-FA. Seriously, I think it's terrific when ANY of us are in a healthy, happy relationship, regardless of our mate's orientation. I'm not reading anything into anyone else's choices except that I trust them to be grown-ups and do what is best for them. 

I mean, can you imagine how wildly inappropriate and ignorant (not to mention likely inaccurate) it would be to go up to a fat woman who's in a great relationship with a non-FA and tell her she's really missing out, and how sad it is that she has some issues with her body, out of some misguided need to lead the poor, unenlightened soul to some universal "truth"? Yikes. And I don't think that's much different from suggesting that those of us who date FAs do so out of some kind of pathology. 

I think this is a useful discussion to have, I just wish we could have it without allowing our own personal agendas to get in the way. 




(I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle school... I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy...)


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## Jes (Aug 18, 2011)

thatgirl08 said:


> The fantastic part about all of this is that every single one of us gets to choose who we want to date without explaining or rationalizing to anyone. I get why this discussion comes up, but I don't really get why some people seem to be so invested in proving other people wrong. At the end of the day, as long as people are doing what feels right for them, who cares?



I just read your confession about hating the dudes your friends seem to be happy enough with that they're not walking out (even if the relationships sounds horribly dysfunctional). I'd guess that at least some of your friends feel what they're doing is right for them, but you still struggle with it b/c you can see other possibilities. Maybe that's what's going on in this thread to some extent. I don't really feel I have a dog in this 'fight,' but I have definitely handed out some rep to the people with whom I agree.


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 18, 2011)

I agree with everything you said, Carrie. 

If I'm coming across at all as critical of those who only date self-identified FAs, I honestly don't mean to be. No one needs anyone's approval for who they choose to date or not date, and I myself have gone through periods where that was how I operated too. I don't think it is necessarily an unhelpful choice, or that people who date only FAs aren't adults able to choose for themselves what they want/need/etc. It's just something I'm also looking to unpack a little more, and see where those desires are coming from, you know? I know where it comes from in me, and I want to hear about where it comes from in other people. I have no preconceived notions about why other people choose it, I only know my own mind.

I know from my many, many years of wildly unsuccessful dating that it's really hard for a lot of us to find a good match, and that often if the guy is an FA that removes some of what might be an incompatibility. The only reason I mention my current relationship with a non-FA (I appreciate you calling it "kickass", btw, Carrie ) is because in some ways it has surprised me that there are guys who are not FAs who really can be truly into the body of a fat woman. And I feel like that has expanded my mind in terms of what I think is possible, and I think sharing those narratives can be a helpful thing in general. Not that my story is everyone's story, or everyone's story is my story, but I know that when I've seen things other fat women do that I didn't think was possible for myself (relationally or just in the world) it has been encouraging to me and helped me live with less fear and broader expectations.


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## Carrie (Aug 18, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> I agree with everything you said, Carrie.
> 
> If I'm coming across at all as critical of those who only date self-identified FAs, I honestly don't mean to be. No one needs anyone's approval for who they choose to date or not date, and I myself have gone through periods where that was how I operated too. I don't think it is necessarily an unhelpful choice, or that people who date only FAs aren't adults able to choose for themselves what they want/need/etc. It's just something I'm also looking to unpack a little more, and see where those desires are coming from, you know? I know where it comes from in me, and I want to hear about where it comes from in other people. I have no preconceived notions about why other people choose it, I only know my own mind.
> 
> I know from my many, many years of wildly unsuccessful dating that it's really hard for a lot of us to find a good match, and that often if the guy is an FA that removes some of what might be an incompatibility. The only reason I mention my current relationship with a non-FA (I appreciate you calling it "kickass", btw, Carrie ) is because in some ways it has surprised me that there are guys who are not FAs who really can be truly into the body of a fat woman. And I feel like that has expanded my mind in terms of what I think is possible, and I think sharing those narratives can be a helpful thing in general. Not that my story is everyone's story, or everyone's story is my story, but I know that when I've seen things other fat women do that I didn't think was possible for myself (relationally or just in the world) it has been encouraging to me and helped me live with less fear and broader expectations.



McB, I almost made a disclaimer in my post that I wasn't referring to you when I spoke of agendas and assumptions and such, and I guess I should have.  I take no issue with anything you've said in this thread, and love that you are bringing something thought-provoking in a positive way to the party.


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## mossystate (Aug 18, 2011)

liz (di-va) said:


> To me, a man who is exclusively into fat women is an FA. I mean, that's the definition of it, as I think of it. So how are you defining FA?
> 
> Articulating this distinction might go a long way toward figuring out what the hell people are arguing about here.
> 
> Or not.



Have already been down that road a bunch of times and defined it.
-----
This has become too ' scourgey ' for me.


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## Eclectic_Girl (Aug 18, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> i thank goodness that i believe in more and see more positivity.



Condescension.




superodalisque said:


> if i said i made a lot of friends in the NAACP you can bet that fear had some part in my decision to make that as a center to my world. it means that the fear generated by racial oppression was central to my life.



Specious logic.



superodalisque said:


> its not vain to say that i'm not hideous to everyone just because i'm fat.



Twisting my words. Being attractive to everyone and being hideous to everyone are not the only two options.



superodalisque said:


> i'm just as desirable as any woman of any other size.



Not to someone who prefers blondes. Or Latinas. Or people who can have a rational discussion without being condescending.



superodalisque said:


> i don't feel i need a specialist to see that because i MUST be so unattractive to absolutely everyone else.




Not why I'm with my guy, but thanks for assuming that I feel like a horrible troll. (That's sarcasm, by the way. I think I'm pretty, and I always have, even in my adolescence.)



superodalisque said:


> i leave you to your paradigm as well. i definitely don't want it.



Thanks for your permission. It wouldn't look good on you, anyway.


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## thatgirl08 (Aug 18, 2011)

Jes said:


> I just read your confession about hating the dudes your friends seem to be happy enough with that they're not walking out (even if the relationships sounds horribly dysfunctional). I'd guess that at least some of your friends feel what they're doing is right for them, but you still struggle with it b/c you can see other possibilities. Maybe that's what's going on in this thread to some extent. I don't really feel I have a dog in this 'fight,' but I have definitely handed out some rep to the people with whom I agree.



Maybe you're right.. although I personally see a big difference in limiting your dating to pool to only FAs or only non-FAs and continuing to date someone who cheats, lies, uses, steals, abuses, etc.


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## superodalisque (Aug 18, 2011)

Eclectic_Girl said:


> Condescension.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



-specious to whom and under what determination, when some have said directly that was their main issue with being open to everyone?

-what are you saying then? were you saying that people other than FAs can find fat women attractive? because if it is its the same thing i've been saying and we agree.

-if someone who prefers blondes and latinas and i'm not one? ...the logic does not follow, since i'm not blonde or latina. so i guess i have pretty much the same chances as all of the other women out there who are not blonde or latina. there are lots of us both fat and thin. 

-i never assumed anything about you personally. nothing in my discussions are aimed at you as an individual because i can't possibly know you well enough. if its personal for you then that's your problem. i thought we were discussing ideas.

- you're welcome. you're right it wouldn't look good on me.  i don't think it comes in my color


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## Eclectic_Girl (Aug 18, 2011)

superodalisque said:


> -specious to whom and under what determination, when some have said directly that was their main issue with being open to everyone?
> 
> -what are you saying then? were you saying that people other than FAs can find fat women attractive? because if it is its the same thing i've been saying and we agree.
> 
> ...



Not to belabor the point, since you're on timeout, but I think the main problem comes with the tone that is generated when all-or-nothing words are used. So here's what I meant:

- Specious to me (I'm the one that typed it), based on the meanings I attach to words from dictionary definitions and 14 years getting paid to use them correctly. It cannot be said that choosing to be with a group of people who share a characteristic or a worldview means that that worldview is based on fear for everyone. Some, perhaps, but not all, and I would be surprised if it were even most. I certainly would not assume that my oldest friend and his husband are afraid of straight people simply because they socialize primarily with other gay people who share some of their most important life experiences. I know nothing about the NAACP: if you have had a bad individual experience with them and were speaking for yourself only and NOT generalizing to anyone else, that point was not clear to me.

- Yes, I am saying that some non-FAs can find some fat women attractive. I am also saying that FAs find some fat women attractive for a wide range of reasons that include their being fat. I am *not* saying that all FAs find all fat women attractive. I *am* saying that if an individual FA is not attracted to an individual fat woman, it is not likely to be because she is fat. That's what I was getting at with the blondes and Latinas comment... 

- You said you were "as desirable as any other woman of any other size". That means the same thing as saying "I am as desirable as all other women" - you did not specify "all other women like me". And that is not true, because desirability requires feelings of desire in another person, and those obviously depend on the person doing the desiring. I do believe there is a certain level of self-esteem about appearance and worth that every person can choose to have - and yes, this level is not dependent on the opinions of others. 

But we are talking about dating and sex here, and that brings another person's sexual preferences into the mix. I would not expect someone who had a strong preference for skinny women (or raven-haired beauties, or Latinas, or African-American women, or Asian women, or sophisticated city slickers, or long-distance runners, or any of a thousand things that I am not) to be attracted to me. And that wounds neither my innate self-esteem nor my sense of my being desirable to someone else. It just tells me that I am not going to have a sexual relationship with that guy. Doesn't matter if I think he's attractive - a relationship is a two-way street. Same goes if a guy is attracted to me and I'm not into him; it's not going to happen, and that's not anyone's fault, it's just the way it is.

- Prejudice is an entirely different thing than desire. It is possible for a person to not want to sleep with a person for a certain aspect, physical or otherwise, and not be prejudiced about that aspect. Now, if they treat said person like shit, and don't afford them the basics of human dignity and courtesy based on that aspect, that is prejudiced, and there is a circle of hell for people like that. And poor treatment in the public sphere is where the fight against fat hatred needs to happen. (I do not believe you can change people's prejudices by fucking them in the very, very private sphere.) I do not need every guy I meet to desire me, but by God, I expect the respectful treatment I deserve as a human being. There may not be a lot of courtesy left in modern society, and some of that I have no control over, but I don't stand for disrespect in people I choose to spend my time with and, especially, who I choose to date. 

- Those of us who choose to date FAs (whether exclusively or not) know that they aren't all wonderful, and that sometimes they are showing us respect just because they are attracted (yes, guys, most women with some dating experience can see right through you  ). That's when I break out the lessons I learned as the wingwoman for my skinny friends, and watch how they treat people they're not attracted to. FAs aren't any more enlightened or any differently distributed across the sliding scale of asshattery than any other subset of guys. We who date FAs are not stupid, and we don't need your advice about how awful FAs are to protect our poor, fragile hearts. If we've been around at all, we've seen the losers *and* the good guys, and we've probably had our heart broken as well. And as for the noobs, I can recommend getting your heart broken. It hurts like a motherfucker, but you learn oh-so-much about yourself and what not to accept and what to seek out. These are lessons that no-one can teach you by telling - you have to experience it for yourself.

- Lastly (because I'm not going to respond to that sly little "color" dig), your implication in the line about feeling the "needing a specialist" to see you as attractive, combined with your attitude toward women who date FAs in this entire thread is offensive and condescending to women who have chosen to date FAs That construction sets you up as a person who has more, and the "right" kind of, self-esteem and who is just *better* than other women. Very few people take kindly to hearing "thank God I'm not like you". That may not have been your conscious intention, but it resulted in the passive-aggressive tone that we heard. This is the part where you say, "Well, that's your issue - I'm just throwing out ideas here". But many of us have had as much experience on these boards with you, Felecia, as we have with opportunistic FAs. And we can see right through your song and dance, too.


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## xeillia (Aug 19, 2011)

I am not sure. Non of the guys I have ever dated have been FA's. That is possibly why they all crashed and burned. My hubby was not a FA either but he has come to understand my involvement and push towards size acceptance. I think a reasonable understanding man would be able to grasp the concept of size acceptance where and ignorant man would not and is not truly worthy of your love and devotion.


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 22, 2011)

Here's just a follow-up question I was curious about - for those of you that only date FAs:

Say a guy who is not an FA really falls for you. He's only ever dated thin/average women, he does not have a specified interest in fat women, but he does really like you. Let's say he expresses attraction for you and asks you out, and you also find him to be a cool, attractive person (at least cool/attractive enough to go on a date with). Would the fact that he was not an FA still be a dealbreaker in a scenario like that? In other words, you wouldn't go out with him?


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## Eclectic_Girl (Aug 22, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> Here's just a follow-up question I was curious about - for those of you that only date FAs:
> 
> Say a guy who is not an FA really falls for you. He's only ever dated thin/average women, he does not have a specified interest in fat women, but he does really like you. Let's say he expresses attraction for you and asks you out, and you also find him to be a cool, attractive person (at least cool/attractive enough to go on a date with). Would the fact that he was not an FA still be a dealbreaker in a scenario like that? In other words, you wouldn't go out with him?



* In this hypothetical situation, I am single.

I would have to know him a little bit first, but you state that I find him cool, so that presupposes knowing at least that little bit. Yup, I'd go out with him. But I'd also need to go into the date with a slightly higher level of preparation to advocate for my needs (seating at a restaurant/movie theater, etc.) than I would with an FA. (Not that all FAs are automatically good about thinking about those things ahead of time. I just expect a higher level of awareness from them.) I am usually prepared to advocate for myself at all times anyway, but I'd probably have thought of some ways to explain my needs to him that are more straightforward and less in-jokey (I'd save references to my big fat ass for later on).

Specifically:
- I would be prepared to drive if his car was not comfortable for me.
- I would be prepared to ask the restaurant hostess for a table, not a booth, and an armless chair if that was necessary. (I'm also really good at scoping seating from the hostess station to see if they've got a half banquette/half chair table, and I'm not ashamed to ask for it, especially if it means I'm comfortable enough to linger over dinner and talk longer.)
- I would be prepared to suggest other locations and/or venues if a movie theater doesn't have searing with arms that go up.
- I would be prepared to explain to him why a long walk would not work for me, and that even a short stroll would probably be slower than he's used to.
- I would be prepared to address the fact that I appear high maintenance because I advocate for myself. I would remind myself extra hard not to be apologetic or self-deprecating in doing so. (This is also a good to time to evaluate whether he has control or strict gender role issues that might be threatened by my self-advocacy. If so, better to know at the jump.) 

Basically, like any first date, I'd want to be my best self, but I wouldn't want to try to hide anything about what it's like to be with me.


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 22, 2011)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts - all of that makes a lot of sense. I just wasn't sure how hard and fast the non-FA rule was for people, you know? I appreciate you sharing how you feel about it.


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## Jes (Aug 22, 2011)

McBeth's last question makes me ask this question:

how do we know someone is an 'FA?' Does he have a card?  But really, does he need to know the term Fat Admirer and bring it out right off the bat? Does he have to announce: I like fat women. Or: I only like fat women. Here's a dossier of photos of past gf's/lovers so that you can see where you fall.

I mean, it just seems unnatural somehow. Certainly not organic to a conversation or a general meeting. 

And so it strikes me that perhaps, since this thing doesn't usually come up right off the bat, perhaps we're talking about partners we meet at Dims or other sites, or fat events (or fat personal sites).

I'm just not sure how I'd know someone was a card-carrying 'FA' otherwise, out in the average, general, non-fat-event/site world. I'd only know he was into me for some reason (looks, mind, combination) and I'd have to go from there.

And then I wonder if that's some of what SuperO was addressing when she said the world isn't always as small as some may make it. Someone outside of the 'scene' is probably not going to approach you using terms like FA or have a documented past of fat GFs to tell you about, but he may still approach you and find you very appealing and may well be an FA, just not one who uses the term or one you meet at a Bash.

Thoughts?


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## olwen (Aug 22, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> Here's just a follow-up question I was curious about - for those of you that only date FAs:
> 
> Say a guy who is not an FA really falls for you. He's only ever dated thin/average women, he does not have a specified interest in fat women, but he does really like you. Let's say he expresses attraction for you and asks you out, and you also find him to be a cool, attractive person (at least cool/attractive enough to go on a date with). Would the fact that he was not an FA still be a dealbreaker in a scenario like that? In other words, you wouldn't go out with him?



My response is based on my experiences only:

This hypothetical doesn't even work because this guy doesn't even exist hypothetically. I've been thru this four times with four different guys, none of them could get past my weight, and one just stopped hanging out with me after someone else point out how well we were getting along, so scenario over. I've yet to meet a guy who wasn't already an FA who is open enough to date a woman my size. 

Is it possible for this guy to exist for fat women? Sure, but I think it would be more likely for a smaller bbw than a mid-sized or ssbbw. There are just a lot of people who think being fat is okay up to a certain point, and I'm well past that point. This is not me being pessimistic or defeatist, it's just realistic and based on my experiences. If other women my size have had this hypothetical situation happen then that's wonderful and I wish more guys were more open. It just hasn't happened for me or any other fat woman I know in real life.

Bottom line is that if the guy in this scenario is asking me out, and he's say, over 27 years old, chances are he's been with women my size before, period. If he hasn't and he's more my age or even a bit older, then I'm going to wonder:

a) why he hasn't been with a fat woman before, and what his intentions are....I'm not interested in being someone's sexual experiment. I'm just too old for that. 

b) Can it really be that in this man's whole life he's never come across a fat woman he thought was great? Ever? Really? He didn't get along with not one of us? Not even in this city where you could throw a rock five feet and hit a fat person. 

c) I really don't think a man who has established for himself what he likes in bed will just suddenly take on something new just because a girl is great. In my experience men just don't work that way. If they are showing interest in something new sexually, chances are this is something he's been fascinated with for a while and he's finally decided to act. 

I'm going to assume this hypothetical guy is playing some kind of angle until he proves otherwise. It will take a lot of work on his part too and if he can't handle it, it just won't work. He basically just has to prove to me he's not out for sex and giving me lip service. 

Again, this is just based on my experiences. I'm not speaking for all fat chicks who date FAs.


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## olwen (Aug 22, 2011)

Jes said:


> McBeth's last question makes me ask this question:
> 
> how do we know someone is an 'FA?' Does he have a card?  But really, does he need to know the term Fat Admirer and bring it out right off the bat? Does he have to announce: I like fat women. Or: I only like fat women. Here's a dossier of photos of past gf's/lovers so that you can see where you fall.
> 
> ...



It's not the term that matters, or even self identification, for all intents and purposes it's behavior and intent that matter. And just my experience: whether or not he likes fat women comes out in the bedroom. If he is freaked out by what he sees or he doesn't know how to touch you, (and this is different from general first time awkwardness), he refuses to do certain basic things, expects you to do things someone your size probably can't do chances are he's never been with a fat woman before and isn't an FA (or someone who prefers to date fat women in general just to be clear how I'm using this term). This brings up a ton of follow up questions in my mind. I'd basically wonder, what are you doing here if you think fat girls are gross and your expectations are whackadoo? 

Beyond that, I assume that an FA understands that fat people need certain things in the real world: a table instead of a booth, not wanting to walk 30 blocks cause it's physically difficult not cause we're lazy, lending a helping hand to get up out of a low chair, if he wants me to go with him to see some band play there's a bunch of stuff I need to do first to accommodate me, but also not assuming I'm so delicate that I can't do anything. That's equally annoying, just stuff like that. Do I expect every FA to know every single one of these things? No, but I expect him to know and demonstrate a few basic things and to be able to use common sense and not assume I'm an invalid or a danger to myself and others, and most of all he would exhibit patience. FAs need to have that. If a person does all those things and more then he's probably _someone who's been with someone my size before and prefers to date women my size.*


*Maybe I'll start saying this from now on instead of just saying FA. Might make things easier since this label seems to be so divisive. 
_


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## AnnMarie (Aug 22, 2011)

Fat is divisive as well, I choose to continue using a term rather than let other people's negative connotations take a helpful, valid term from my own vocabulary. 

And you're totally right, as many of us said much higher in this thread - he doesn't have to know or use the term in order to be what we're looking for. There are attributes that I want, and if they're present then I'll be interested and if they're not then I won't. It's not about the term FA, it's about the emotions/actions that _*I personally*_ associate with what I want. 

And I will still use FA without issue, because if they know it or not, it's still a label that overall covers what I'm looking for - a man who, all things being equal, chooses to partner with large women.


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## olwen (Aug 22, 2011)

AnnMarie said:


> Fat is divisive as well, I choose to continue using a term rather than let other people's negative connotations take a helpful, valid term from my own vocabulary.
> 
> And you're totally right, as many of us said much higher in this thread - he doesn't have to know or use the term in order to be what we're looking for. There are attributes that I want, and if they're present then I'll be interested and if they're not then I won't. It's not about the term FA, it's about the emotions/actions that _*I personally*_ associate with what I want.
> 
> And I will still use FA without issue, because if they know it or not, it's still a label that overall covers what I'm looking for - a man who, all things being equal, chooses to partner with large women.



I am just baffled by how quickly a simple helpful term has become so completely loaded with negativity.


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## mossystate (Aug 22, 2011)

It's not at all baffling to some...not at all.


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## olwen (Aug 22, 2011)

...whatever. I'm tired of picking this apart. We all have our personal preferences.


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## mossystate (Aug 22, 2011)

...even those who don't agree with you ( general you ).


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## liz (di-va) (Aug 23, 2011)

Okay, I am guessing that this road might be of limited benefit to travel down, and comparisons are odious and all that, but I can't help but wonder if some of this splintery difference in POV/definitions (around what is not much difference in behavior) might have some connection to body size? And how it influences how people have to travel to get to (more or less) the same place with each other?

A woman who is 600 lbs and a woman who is 200 lbs won't have the same experience, nor might they be inclined to attribute/define the same behaviors the same way. A man dating a woman who is 600 lbs vs. a man dating a woman who is 200 lbs. won't have the same things required of them. 

Just a thought. I can see how this could become a very unprofitable discussion about who has things worse or something like that, but it seems worth noting that there are a lot of different experiences that are perhaps being lumped together?

NOT SURE. Don't know. Just thinking.


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## Eclectic_Girl (Aug 23, 2011)

It's very possible, Liz.

I approached it as a pure hypothetical, because it hasn't happened to me at this size. When I was in the low-to-mid 200s (when I was 20, after the Optifast fiasco), I did get some interest from guys who wouldn't have considered themselves FAs or into fat women at all. Once I was back into the high 200s and 300s (say 22 onwards), I did not encounter any guys who wanted to be more than friends. I don't know how much of that was influenced by the fact that I had a succession of small social circles that were fairly inhospitable to dating success - a hometown job in a primarily female office, an intense grad school teaching program where my cohort contained 3 single heterosexual guys and the rest of the time I was around teenagers, my first "career" job where I worked 60-hour weeks and traveled all the time. All I know is that the first time that a guy made it clear that he found me romantically (or at least sexually) attractive at my supersize was at my first NAAFA convention. Actually, I take that back: there was a homeless guy at the L'Enfant Plaza train station that thought I was the bee's knees. 

Now that I know what to look for (there's a certain gleam in the eye), I have noticed guys in my everyday life who would be interested...if they weren't married. When I was looking to date, I found that putting myself in a social situation with single men who knew they preferred fat women gave me the best odds of finding someone where there was a mutual attraction on both the physical and non-physical levels. For me, that was the HB dances and, to a lesser extent, NAAFA conventions. But I did those things as a part of my regular social life and interacting with my friends, so meeting someone was a fun possibility, not the goal of being there. It did help take some of the social anxiety away to know that the guys there were at least not anti-fat-chick.


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## Jes (Aug 23, 2011)

liz (di-va) said:


> A woman who is 600 lbs and a woman who is 200 lbs won't have the same experience, nor might they be inclined to attribute/define the same behaviors the same way. A man dating a woman who is 600 lbs vs. a man dating a woman who is 200 lbs. won't have the same things required of them.
> .



I've said this (and asked about it and posted about it) all along.


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## LovelyLiz (Aug 23, 2011)

liz (di-va) said:


> Okay, I am guessing that this road might be of limited benefit to travel down, and comparisons are odious and all that, but I can't help but wonder if some of this splintery difference in POV/definitions (around what is not much difference in behavior) might have some connection to body size? And how it influences how people have to travel to get to (more or less) the same place with each other?
> 
> A woman who is 600 lbs and a woman who is 200 lbs won't have the same experience, nor might they be inclined to attribute/define the same behaviors the same way. A man dating a woman who is 600 lbs vs. a man dating a woman who is 200 lbs. won't have the same things required of them.
> 
> ...



I also think this is a real possibility, and think that most of us probably realize that the dating experiences and options can (though they don't always) differ quite a bit depending on size (200 and 600 pounds is a good differential for getting at that, and people at both ends come on here and share their experiences). This has been talked about by a number of people in several threads, and I think we don't fully delve into it for a lot of reasons - one of those being that individual experiences do seem to vary dramatically. 

Since, interestingly, the few of us in this thread who have been relating experiences of fulfilling relationships of attraction with non-FAs are really not on the smaller-BBW end of things (I acknowledge also that we are also not 600 pounds, though). For me it certainly has never been the norm that guys who typically go for thin women all of a sudden want to date me, and like several others have expressed, I am well-acquainted (VERY well acquainted) with fat-girl dating disappointments. But even so, a handful of times this _has _happened to me, and it happened twice in the past 6 months, in fact. And one of those guys I now have a very loving, deep, passionate and fun relationship with.

I can't say whether those things are due to other factors like how much someone's size does or does not affect the types of activities they can engage in, or how much accommodation they need on a daily basis, or things like that. Maybe it factors in, it probably does to some extent, but I can't really say and would imagine it varies, at least somewhat. But the reality is that the whole non-FA being attracted to a fat woman scenario has happened to a number of us, so it's not totally a unicorn either.


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## liz (di-va) (Aug 23, 2011)

Jes said:


> I've said this (and asked about it and posted about it) all along.


Yes! you have.


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## Tina (Sep 2, 2011)

mcbeth said:


> But the reality is that the whole non-FA being attracted to a fat woman scenario has happened to a number of us, so it's not totally a unicorn either.



No, it's not. I married a guy (and we were together for 17 years) who wasn't an FA. Most of the guys I dated when I was young weren't FAs, either, and I still had good experiences. Thing is, there are great FAs and shit FAs just like there are great guys and shit guys. *shrug*


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## *Ravenous* (Dec 14, 2011)

I guess cause of my horrible experiences with dudes who claim the title "FA" I try and stay clear of them...i love the fact of someone being into me including my size but I dont want someone to just be into me just cause of my size...


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## sarahreign (May 20, 2012)

I cant get off with non fas... I LOVE the fatish part of being a bbw/ssbbw i love the fatty play n fat talk. Non FAs bore me. Ive met plenty of cute guys who lile big girls but...its not not the same


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## AnnMarie (May 22, 2012)

I dated a non-FA earlier this year, because I am at least trying to be open to whatever good may come my way. It ended and the lacking parts and missing features were largely due to my fatness/his non-FA-ness. 

Worked to confirm my own feelings - so that was a worthwhile exercise. It had been a long time, so you don't want to get set in your ways just because you "think" that's how it is. This was a nice little path to travel and helped to reinforce my own views (for me and my life) on this topic.


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## Jeeshcristina (May 31, 2012)

My thoughts on this is that it all ends up being about computability in the end. While a fat partner may be someone's preference, it doesn't necessarily exclude the rest of world in terms of their dating pool. I have dated guys that loved my fat, and they gave belly rubs, and encouraged me to eat up, and then I have met guys who told me that I should focus on losing a little weight and being thinner. I find the best mate for me personally is the guy who tells me that if I'm happy the way I am, that they're happy. Someone should be looking for a supportive partner if they're looking for a long term relationship, not just someone who indulges their sexual desires. People have many facets. While no one should just settle for the first person who comes around, I don't think you shouldn't disqualify someone just because they aren't exactly what you're looking for. As someone being constantly being judged for my weight, I would hate to think that I'd given someone a less than fair shake because of an arbitrary title like "FA".


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## plumplingdumpling (Jun 1, 2012)

Sometimes, someone comes along and says it all, just right for you!



Jeeshcristina said:


> My thoughts on this is that it all ends up being about computability in the end. While a fat partner may be someone's preference, it doesn't necessarily exclude the rest of world in terms of their dating pool. I have dated guys that loved my fat, and they gave belly rubs, and encouraged me to eat up, and then I have met guys who told me that I should focus on losing a little weight and being thinner. I find the best mate for me personally is the guy who tells me that if I'm happy the way I am, that they're happy. Someone should be looking for a supportive partner if they're looking for a long term relationship, not just someone who indulges their sexual desires. People have many facets. While no one should just settle for the first person who comes around, I don't think you shouldn't disqualify someone just because they aren't exactly what you're looking for. As someone being constantly being judged for my weight, I would hate to think that I'd given someone a less than fair shake because of an arbitrary title like "FA".


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jun 2, 2012)

I enjoyed going through and re-reading some posts in this thread 


I live with a self-acclaimed FA.

Wha?????

Yeppers, he luvs my fat body, constantly looks at me and tells me I'm beautiful. I feel very confident that he doesn't think I look too fat in that dress and means it every time he compliments me. He speaks like some of the FAs on this forum....saying things like "I wish you knew how sexy I think you are" and "I think you don't believe me when I tell you how attractive I find you". He's really into fat women.....and that seems to be most of his past relationships. 

Why did I date him when I speak so avidly about non-FAs and bi-sizuals? He said on his profile "I prefer bigger women but it's okay if you're not". He didn't make it the end all of everything about me. 

That was it- that simple. He still likes me and finds me attractive within a 40 lb size difference so far...no hesitation. 
Wow, reading back on that....it probably goes back to that fear thing mentioned earlier in this thread. I fear a man giving me shit over my weight and simply put, would end the relationship over it (actually probably never start one). It's a deal breaker for me. 

That last long term boyfriend I had.....he only dated one chubby lady and the rest thin women before me. 
He found me quite sexy.....I saw it and knew it....it just took me much longer to realize it with him than the FA guy. So I'm saying it took time to realize that he _really_ did find me attractive. Lo and behold, when I look back, it was really a stupid thought process on my part- 'cause it goes back to a previous post I made in this thread....he ain't asking unless he's into it. So why was it so hard for me to grasp in the beginning?
That goes back to other posts in this thread by other women....I was feeling insecure about myself after coming out of a 14 year marriage. 
It really had NOTHING to do with him....but rather my own self image. The relationship was a fiasco...but it helped me to realize my own insecurities were what was hurting me once again.


I can see both sides of the coin (or so I like to think *shrugs*). I can take something good out of almost every relationship I have had because that's what I choose to do.

I like this thread because it seems that a lot of truth has been given/spoken in it - from both sides of the argument. :bow::bow:


@Eclectic Girl- thanks for that Saturday morning loud laugh you gave to me and my bf with your mention of the homeless guy that thought you were the bee's knees


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