# Help me I'm (not) sinking!



## Red (May 29, 2007)

Right, t'other day the beau and I were out at our local swimming pool and we found out something interesting. We were in the pool, goggles on and diving down, doing handstands and generally having lots of fun until we discovered...

The beau seems to have the magical power to sink down and sit cross legged on the bottom of the pool and I do not. I have tried repeatedly (and much to boyfs amusement too methinks!) to sink down and sit. I flapped my arms and paddled ferouciously but to no avail. I would get a short way down and then bob right back up the the surface. I tried all the tips, I blew out all my breath as I decended, I tried again and again. Turns out, and maybe this isnt such a newsflash to some of you but...

Fat chicks (and dudes too I'm guessing!) don't sink!  


Now, what we would like to know is, is this down to my lack of olympic style sinking finesse or is the answer more simple than that? 

Is it because I is fat?

Do any of you lovely lot know?

We would love to know your similar experiences where it seems, just down to plain old physics, something is not achievable due to your BMI.


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## elle camino (May 29, 2007)

when myself, sasha, and ren woman hung out in pdx we went hottubbing (or more like...giant heated public pooling. but that sounds really sick now that i type it.), and we figured this out immediately. it was us and about a dozen other, average-sized ladies in there, and the three of us kept bobbing around like little floaty mcgoos. it was beyond adorable, i'm pretty sure.


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## Pookie (May 29, 2007)

*grins* yes, I found this out the other day after not having been swimming in about 10 years, was quite amusing, easy to bob about when resting before another length.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (May 29, 2007)

lol...oh I have known this for years....being on a swim team and trying to swim below the water was a challenge....twas more like I was floating on top propelling myself with my arms and legs....looked odd I'm sure, but I didn't have to go far for air, lol.

Think of it as a permanent life jacket


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## mango (May 29, 2007)

*Conclusions from experiments undertaken last year in Vegas and this year in Jersey...

Fat floats and muscle sinks.



I couldn't even float on a bbw-raft.. :doh: 

*


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## Accept (May 29, 2007)

Remember to hold your breath after *exhaling* in order to make it to the bottom! Keeping your lungs full is a surefire way to fail that challenge.


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## BigBlueChickee (May 29, 2007)

See....this is real odd. I'm a good...300 pounds I would guess. And I can't float in a pool to save my life (literally!) I get in there, and unless i'm holding onto the sides, I sink like a rock. I'm apparently broken compared to all our other BBWs/BHMs. lol:doh:


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## philosobear (May 29, 2007)

BigBlueChickee said:


> See....this is real odd. I'm a good...300 pounds I would guess. And I can't float in a pool to save my life (literally!) I get in there, and unless i'm holding onto the sides, I sink like a rock. I'm apparently broken compared to all our other BBWs/BHMs. lol:doh:



mayhap you are what some call a 'pebble-muncher'...


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## philosobear (May 29, 2007)

I, for one, look forward to achieving neutral boyancy...


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## SoVerySoft (May 29, 2007)

mango said:


> *Conclusions from experiments undertaken last year in Vegas and this year in Jersey...
> 
> Fat floats and muscle sinks.
> 
> ...



So you're bragging how muscular you are! I see!


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## Green Eyed Fairy (May 29, 2007)

Lol- I took my girls swimming yesterday and my oldest asked me how I was floating so easily while upright. I thought it was my special arm/leg movements but apparently it must have more to do with my beach ball shape


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## AnnMarie (May 29, 2007)

My favorite floating fatties (yeah, not new news here) is many, many, many years ago... FAJohnny almost drowning in a pool with myself and two other fatties floating around the deep end.

We were all just gabbing away, goofing off, floating around, blah blah.... and all the while he was treading water. Who knew? All of a sudden, after a LONG time... like over half hour probably, he was sort of starting to sink and stuff... and I just looked at him like... what is wrong??????????

He headed to the side... got some breath, I had to laugh. I was like "We can just float next to the wall, you know"...


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## Chimpi (May 29, 2007)

Well now, I have always heard that fat people float easily, and I have always known this, but I never actually thought of that. When my brother and I were younger, and he has always been one hell of a skinny guy, he would _always_ sink to the bottom and sit, and waving for me to come down. I always tried, and I could get to the bottom, but I would never stay. I would immediately resume my floating position after just a few seconds of ballooning towards the top.

Funny, methinks. I do still have to tread water often, but I'm pretty level for the most part. I mostly level out right at my nose... :huh:

I like mango's reply. I cannot give him reputation again, however.


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## MsGreenLantern (May 29, 2007)

When I was a bit younger I had to try out this fact and I had two of my sporty cousins hold onto my feet. They generally sink, but I in fact kept my head above water with both of them on my ankles trying to sink me. Very much fun unless you like swimming under!


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## Forgotten_Futures (May 30, 2007)

I will not sink on my own, unless I exhale, but if I hold my breath and tilt my head back my mouth will JUST stay above the water. Problem is, if I exhale to breathe again, I sink.

It is fun, though, to dive down and then exhale. I can sit on the bottom for a few seconds by exhaling most of the air in my lungs and then letting the rest out slowly.


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## TheNowhereMan (May 30, 2007)

hehe thats awesome


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## philosobear (May 30, 2007)

after reading this thread again I am the perfect blend of warm, fuzzy, amused and turned on. Thankyou Red!


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## Tad (May 30, 2007)

Yes, fat floats and bone and muscle sink. In my younger years I did a little bit of life guarding and teaching swimming, and had demonstrations of both.

One day at the pool where I was a lifeguard in came a young woman with Dows syndrome. I was pretty worried because we didnt know if she was a good swimmer or not, and we worried that if she was not she might not recognize where the dangerous areas of the pool were. We should not have fretted, as she was also very fat, and she just kind of floated around, able to move herself slowly with truly awful swimming technique but having no issues at all keeping her head above water. (In hindsight I probably did not give her nearly enough credit, but as a life guard I think erring on the side of worrying is probably the right way to go).

Later I was teaching swimming to some kids that I knew. Theyd all splashed around in pools or at the beach, but none had had swimming lessons. One of the boys was about eleven years old, and was the skinny bookworm type who was in the midst of his growth spurt, so was super gangly. It was almost a lost cause, he had so little body fat that he sunk like a stone, and didnt have the strength or athletic ability to do much more than keep himself floating for a while. His younger brother was both more active and a bit chubby, and he did brilliantly, as it did not take so much effort for him to stay at the top of the water and he had a better feel for his body and probably more endurance as well.

I certainly float far more than I used to. To sink I now have to breathe out most of my air, although I can still swim down well enough with full lungs, it just takes active effort to stay down.

Regards;

-Ed


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## LillyBBBW (May 30, 2007)

I cannot sink even with lungs empty. I lost something in the water once and tried to scour the bottom of the pool looking for it but could not. The water just threw me back up to the surface. Strange that thin people are heavier than fat people in the water. Fat Magic!


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## TCUBOB (May 30, 2007)

I can sink by emptying my lungs, but I do have to work at it a bit.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (May 30, 2007)

I can't even swim to the bottom of the pool, lol. I have tried and when I just about get there my body starts floating up....not cool when you are playing that diving for dimes game, lol...I have learned to pick things up with my toes in the pool, lol.


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## HottiMegan (May 30, 2007)

lol i too float and like bigbellyssbbw i can barely get to the bottom of the pool before my fat pulls me back up. I always passed my swim tests in school with flying colors thanks to the fat.


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## Koldun (May 30, 2007)

....you want a scientific explanation? Okay - fat is not as dense as muscle. It's not the weight that makes something sink, it's the density. 

But the quality of the water also makes a difference. I'm thinking back to my science classes and if I remember correctly, you float easier in seawater than fresh. It has something to do with the salt - but I can't give you the reason why as it escapes me now....


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## Totmacher (May 31, 2007)

Salt is more dense than water. So saltwater is more dense than fresh water. Sea water is made of mostly water and some salt. For a given volume of sea water the mostly water weighs as much as water, and the salt weighs a lot more than the water that would be taking up the volume it takes up so the sea water on the whole weighs more than pure water for the same amount of volume (and you don't have to displace as much of it to float).
If memory serves the salt seperates into ions that can squeeze into the empty space between the water molecules and don't actually take up any more volume than the water they're dissolved in, but it's been a while since I took that class so ya might wanna take that with a grain of salt.
Oh, and I sink in most oceans I've tried. You could always try a weight belt if you really wanted to sink. I wear one when I go diving. Interestingly enough I remember having a pretty large divemaster once who didn't need a weight belt. He joked that all the pressure from all the dives he'd been on had compressed him and none of the divemasters where he worked needed weights.


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## Koldun (May 31, 2007)

Ah - okay. I couldn't remember....and I failed Chemistry....


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## Fuzzy (May 31, 2007)

I have all the natural bouyancy of a rock.


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## philosobear (May 31, 2007)

I can imagine that the maths involved in calculating the point at which one actually becomes boyant strikes me as potentially complex....I'm curious at how much fatter I'll have to get before this wonderful thing begins to happen...anyone got any ideas....?


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## stan_der_man (May 31, 2007)

Fat people who can't stay underwater should consider themselves lucky... When in the water there are definately worse things than involuntarily floating!

I've gained some weight (fat) so I may actually be more boyant than I used to... I absolutely sink like a brick in water and it really sucks! I can't even float on my back with air in my lungs and treading water is a decent amount of work for me. I sink no matter what, even with my lungs full of air.

Speaking of floating... I knew a gal that was so boyant she couldn't sit in a jacuzzi without floating up.

Muscle is more dense (heavier) than water (more weight per volume), fat is lighter than water (just like wood or cork) so it floats.

Stan


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## HottiMegan (May 31, 2007)

My husband is like that fa_man. He sinks like a brick and cant float at all. He cant have the pleasure of just floating under the moonlight and looking up at the stars without the help of some device  I too cannot easily sit in a hot tub, i tend to float up


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## BigCutieSasha (May 31, 2007)

I've noticed that. I don't sink. But I love that because if Im in a pool with an FA, its usually the only time they can pick me up and carry me around and not be out of breath or risk pulling a muscle. Although it makes playing tea party at the bottom of the pool damn near impossible.


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## Ruby Ripples (May 31, 2007)

A friend who is very slim and quite muscular cannot float to save his life even though he is a very good swimmer. Another friend was very muscular and had a teeeeeny amount of body fat also sunk like a stone and would pull anyone with him lol. Fat floats for sure.


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## Totmacher (May 31, 2007)

philosobear said:


> I can imagine that the maths involved in calculating the point at which one actually becomes boyant strikes me as potentially complex....I'm curious at how much fatter I'll have to get before this wonderful thing begins to happen...anyone got any ideas....?



Actually it's not nearly as difficult as you'd think. What I'd do is set up an equation with your weight times your density plus x times the density of fat equal to the density of water and solve for x. Luckily several people have done the math in dozens of ways and we can spare you the algebra and say getting your body fat percentage up around 20% should do it.


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## AnnMarie (May 31, 2007)

fa_man_stan said:


> Speaking of floating... I knew a gal that was so boyant she couldn't sit in a jacuzzi without floating up.



Now you know 2. 

If I sit totally straight up, and plant my feet, I can pretty much stay, but if I put my legs out at an angle or recline.... I'm an ice cube.


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## ashmamma84 (Jun 1, 2007)

BigBellySSBBW said:


> I can't even swim to the bottom of the pool, lol. I have tried and when I just about get there my body starts floating up....not cool when you are playing that diving for dimes game, lol...I have learned to pick things up with my toes in the pool, lol.



...and after all this time I thought as a little girl I was odd because I could never win at that game. Wasn't that I wasn't good; I was too luscious and didn't know it.


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## Tad (Jun 1, 2007)

philosobear said:


> I can imagine that the maths involved in calculating the point at which one actually becomes boyant strikes me as potentially complex....I'm curious at how much fatter I'll have to get before this wonderful thing begins to happen...anyone got any ideas....?



The info has to be out there--this is how they measure body fat, essentially. That is, the most accurate way they have of measuring body fat is a water displacement test, so there must be some formula for the density of fat compared to the density of muscle and bone. Go test your google-fu?

-Ed


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## exile in thighville (Jun 1, 2007)

i wonder if during the salem witch trials, any legitimate witches got away with it because they were fat?


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## Ruby Ripples (Jun 1, 2007)

dan ex machina said:


> i wonder if during the salem witch trials, any legitimate witches got away with it because they were fat?



Well I believed that if the woman floated, she was said to be a witch, so they held her under til she was dead. However, if she sank immediately, she was innocent... but she was dead by then anyway...


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## James (Jun 1, 2007)

BigCutieSasha said:


> Although it makes playing tea party at the bottom of the pool damn near impossible.



what made me laugh the other day was when you started doing handstands underwater but were too buoyant to keep your hands on the bottom causing you to keep on rising up and bellyflopping... 

I think you had an unfair advantage for pool volleyball too - If only I'd brought the cam to the pool


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## Aurora (Jun 2, 2007)

I learned this from a friend who used to lifeguard.

There are three basic bodytypes. Endomorphic, exomorphic, and mesomorphic. Endomorphs are us bigguns, generally predisposed to extra pudge and an overall larger size. Exomorphs are thin, often the "bean poles." Mesomorphic are the broad-shouldered often male body types that are predisposed to muscle (when fat is gained it generally creates a beer belly in this type rather than flab).

Endomorphs and exomorphs float (unless the exomorph is very thin and has very little fat or muscle), while mesomorphs sink.

So I guess I just sorta repeated what's already been said, but there it is in case anyone was curious as to terminology and junk.  lol


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## AgentSkelly (Jun 2, 2007)

I just had the sudden crazy idea of putting a diving weight belt on a BBW.....


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## Red (Jun 2, 2007)

I think this one's gonna run and run, yay!


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## philosobear (Jun 2, 2007)

Totmacher said:


> Actually it's not nearly as difficult as you'd think. What I'd do is set up an equation with your weight times your density plus x times the density of fat equal to the density of water and solve for x. Luckily several people have done the math in dozens of ways and we can spare you the algebra and say getting your body fat percentage up around 20% should do it.




I like people saving me maths, cheers T!


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## liz (di-va) (Jun 2, 2007)

This is one reason that although it is the sadness of my life that there aren't more big bathtubs out there, a bathtub that's *too* big is a problem too. I float around like a cork, point of balance tipping my feet out from under. Need *something* to hold onto/wedge against. 

Miss Buoyancy 2007


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## NotAnExpert (Jun 2, 2007)

Back, way back before the daffy ages of BMI, electrical impedance and skinfold calipers, somewhere around 1978, there was a much-touted method, called "hydrostatic weighing" for determining how much of one's body mass was fat. It was based on the ancient Archemedian principle of displacement, aka "Specific Gravity" (which was purported to have been discovered by the old Greek in his own bathtub). 

Fat is indeed less dense than water, by about 10%. Lean tissue is trickier, as it consists of bone, muscle and a few miscellaneous bits, but the ballpark guess is around 10% more dense than water. (The calculations apply best to people in the middling ranges of ages and weights.) So the idea is to find out how much a person weighs under water, compared to how much water volume they displace. Hydrostatic weighing ("Hydro" for underwater, "static" for holding still long enough to accurately read the water depth and get the scale needle to stop wiggling) requires the subject to empty their lungs as much as possible for the duration of the weighing. Between the discomfort, the time and the bulky, delicate and expensive equipment, a consumer model has yet to appear on store shelves.

There is a simpler version of the method that involves the use of weights and floats to determine the exact point of neutral bouyancy rather than scales and volume measurements. The point is that what keeps people off the bottom of the pool is fat and air. The more fat, the easier it is. I've learned this in the intervening years between dropping out of Boy Scouts because of the Second Class swimming requirement and the much easier time I have in the water today, a hundred pounds heavier.

http://www.brettlee.com/prof/exphys1/fat_ass
http://mb-soft.com/public2/bodyfat.html
http://www.emunix.emich.edu/~bogle/body_composition.htm


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## exile in thighville (Jun 4, 2007)

Ruby Ripples said:


> Well I believed that if the woman floated, she was said to be a witch, so they held her under til she was dead. However, if she sank immediately, she was innocent... but she was dead by then anyway...




you're right. dammit i can't believe i had that verersed.


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## rachidi54 (Jun 6, 2007)

i'm into gaining and i'm not fat as you. 

As far as i know, and what i have experienced, *even thin people* can't sink if they don't have *The technic*. Some haven't the tecnic at all, and just are on water, floating. Some know, and sink, and others have the half of the tecnic and manage to sink a little.

So i think the difficulty is to have the tecnic, it's been 10 years i haven't been at the swimming pool, but i managed to do this exercise.

first you have really to go up, and then put your head first, you must go on a vertical way. That's the mistake people do, i mean the people and friends i knew (were thin). They think they go on a vertical way, but they're wrong. If you don't go exactly vertical, then you won't manage.

i understand that fat people (and i hope i'll be real fat too) could have trouble when raising up (the first movement). But i'm sure that even fat people can sink.

i hope you understood my english.


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## Red (Jun 10, 2007)

for all your resposes on this puzzling but cheeky topic


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## Pookie (Jun 10, 2007)

I'm going to experiment tomorrow, Monday is Swimday :happy: see how high I can float out of the water. Was weird last time as I was trying to fix my hair back and I kept bobbing up


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## AnnMarie (Jun 11, 2007)

rachidi54 said:


> i'm into gaining and i'm not fat as you.
> 
> As far as i know, and what i have experienced, *even thin people* can't sink if they don't have *The technic*. Some haven't the tecnic at all, and just are on water, floating. Some know, and sink, and others have the half of the tecnic and manage to sink a little.
> 
> ...



I understood your English, I believe, but I assure you I cannot sink. I am more buoyant, like a boat (only I cannot be filled with water), and am unable to stay much below the surface of the water. 

Also, I don't think sinking requires technique for skinny people - it's the floating/surviving that requires technique. I know some here have said they learned to improve their sinking with lung techniques, and I think that's true, but if you're non-buoyant (usually a thin/skinny person), you WILL sink if you stop swimming to stay up.

I often wonder if I get much fatter, perhaps I'll actually float over the water.


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## Pookie (Jun 11, 2007)

lol... we will walk on water


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## Waxwing (Jun 11, 2007)

I cannot float to save my life, and that's been true at any weight. Of course I also don't know how to swim, so I could just be sinking with panic.


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## TCUBOB (Jun 11, 2007)

I offered instruction...but someone was a little LATE TO THE POOL....



Waxwing said:


> I cannot float to save my life, and that's been true at any weight. Of course I also don't know how to swim, so I could just be sinking with panic.


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## Red (Jun 11, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> I understood your English, I believe, but I assure you I cannot sink. I am more buoyant, like a boat (only I cannot be filled with water), and am unable to stay much below the surface of the water.
> 
> Also, I don't think sinking requires technique for skinny people - it's the floating/surviving that requires technique. I know some here have said they learned to improve their sinking with lung techniques, and I think that's true, but if you're non-buoyant (usually a thin/skinny person), you WILL sink if you stop swimming to stay up.
> 
> *I often wonder if I get much fatter, perhaps I'll actually float over the water. *





Hmmm, the more I think about this the more I think you would sort of just start spinning, whirling elegantly on top of the pool at a steady speed. Gravity holding you down but your fat keeping you buoyant, fun!


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## Waxwing (Jun 11, 2007)

TCUBOB said:


> I offered instruction...but someone was a little LATE TO THE POOL....



Wouldn't have taken you up on it anyway. It's embarrassing enough to be 32 and not know how to swim. I'll be damned if I'm going to take instruction in the middle of a Heavenly Bodies party.


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## Television Man (Jun 11, 2007)

heh, was in lifeguard traning a few days ago, and while 90% of the techniques were easy as all hell, anything involving a scissors dive was a nightmare ><(weighing in at 250ish right now)


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## AnnMarie (Jun 11, 2007)

Red said:


> [/b]
> 
> 
> Hmmm, the more I think about this the more I think you would sort of just start spinning, whirling elegantly on top of the pool at a steady speed. Gravity holding you down but your fat keeping you buoyant, fun!



I'm totally in to that idea. 

As long as the times when I'm face down in the water are torturous - a la Duran Duran Wild Boys' Spinning Water Wheel of Death (literally almost killed Simon... yup.)


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## rachidi54 (Jun 12, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> if you're non-buoyant (usually a thin/skinny person), you WILL sink if you stop swimming to stay up.



i think you're right., that means that you float, really ?, i mean do you float when you're standing up ?, i don't think so.





AnnMarie said:


> Also, I don't think sinking requires technique for skinny people - it's the floating/surviving that requires technique.



i said that there is a technique to go under water, but really at the bottom of the swimming pool, not to sink like a heavy thing, but to go under with a technique which enable you to swim in a vertical way until the bottom.

And that technique has to be learnt by thin or fat people, of you don't have this technique, you 'll may be able to sink, but not correctly, and with a lot of effort.

i understand and i believe that it can be more difficult for a fat person, but i believe that it is possible.


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## Red (Jun 13, 2007)

everytime I attempted the 'high kick' move I just kept floating away!


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## Tooz (Jun 13, 2007)

I can pretty much float and sink. I spent so much of my childhood swimming that I have learned how to position myself in order to do these things.


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## AnnMarie (Jun 18, 2007)

rachidi54 said:


> i think you're right., that means that you float, really ?, i mean do you float when you're standing up ?, i don't think so.



I don't float when standing on the ground in waist high water - no. Because the majority of my body mass that provides buoyancy is from my entire torso/arms, etc... so standing on the ground in water that does not cover my torso? No floating. 

Now, raise that water to my neck and yes, I float. My feet will NOT stay on the ground, body pops up.


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