# United Airlines New Policy for Large Passengers



## fatchicksrockuk (Mar 30, 2009)

I noticed that United Airlines have a new policy for "passengers requiring extra space" (link below). I emailed the CEO with a few questions...I will post any response I get here!

"Dear Mr Tilton

I notice your airline now has a formal policy for large passengers requiring extra space:

http://www.unitedairlines.co.uk/core/english/SI/cpa/specialneeds/extraspace.html

I have a few questions:

1. Is the extra seat eligible to accrue Mileage Plus miles? If not, why not?
2. As you are now formally requiring large passengers to purchase an extra seat, do you have information as to which planes and which seats have movable armrests?
3. How is this policy compliant with the United Kingdom Disability Discrimination Act 1995 and the Americans with Disabilities Act 1990?
4. Is a discount offered on the second seat to reflect the lower cost to your airline i.e. one less passenger to process, one less meal to provide?
5. I am able to upgrade one companion to Economy Plus with my Premier status - I assume this applies if the companion is large?
6. Do you make available information as to which planes have disabled access bathrooms?
7. Do you follow the policy of other airlines of refunding the extra seat if the flight is not full?

I look forward to your response.

Yours Sincerely, 

Fatchicksrockuk"


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## SSBBBWVeuveJenCoBu (Mar 30, 2009)

Excellent questions. I hope to read his response on ur thread.
Cheers luv,
JenCoBu:bow:


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## TallFatSue (Mar 30, 2009)

Well, United Airlines are perfectly entitled to run their airlines as they see fit, which may explain why they are in such dire straits. I certainly haven't flown on them for at least a decade, and that was well before they instituted their policy on fat. When I consider that 2/3 of my body mass is fine fabulous feminine fat (and it's mine, all mine, hee hee) I can understand why airlines have certain policies for passengers like me who are worth three ordinary women. Likewise I'm sure they understand why I vote with my fat and fly on other airlines.

Southwest Airlines were among the first to institute a policy for fat passengers, yet I've had some of my best flying experiences with them. Their flights are prompt, their schedules are good, their service is friendly and their fares are excellent value. I try to fly at non-peak times, and generally I manage to have an empty seat next to me. Once in a while I find myself on a full flight wedged next to another passenger, but the last time that happened, I'm just vain enough to think he didn't object too much. That's why Southwest is the winner in the competition for my airline money, they are now my airline of choice, and I happily pay their higher but certainly reasonable Business Select fares.

However the real winner for my money in the transport competition may be Enterprise Rent-A-Car, because I'd really rather drive than fly if it's practical. That's because I'm much more comfortable in a roomy car seat, I can bring as much fat as I can carry, and my luggage never gets lost. Much better dinners along the way too. :eat2:

Of course the best way to travel is on a luxury cruise ship, with even better dinners, but that's a whole 'nother story.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Apr 8, 2009)

Just to point out the obvious, Southwest Airlines does not fly to or from England. Thus we are limited in our flying options. But hey if another 550lbs girl has had success with another airline, I'd like to hear about it.

Within the US I prefer southwest. I love them and can't say enough. And the seats are comfy


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## Tooz (Apr 8, 2009)

BigBellySSBBW said:


> Within the US I prefer southwest. I love them and can't say enough. And the seats are comfy



You know, I have heard of awful experiences, but...I always loved Southwest! They were so sweet, and so helpful and understanding-- NEVER, EVER treated me with anything but the utmost respect.


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## Buffie (Apr 8, 2009)

Southwest does have a spiffy record when it comes to being safe and on time.

However... There's this little airline called Midwest.

They don't have as much variety as Southwest, but if you plan far enough ahead, you can get direct flights to a number of US destinations and their price is most comparable with Southwest.

Here are some of my favorite Midwest points:

Almost every plane features 21-inch leather seats, which is four inches wider than the average 17-inch Southwest seat. 99% of Midwest planes are "business class only" meaning big seats without first class costs.

Hot chocolate chip cookies baked on board almost every flight. If that doesn't say "fat folks we love you" I don't know what does.

For reasons unknown to me (perhaps they don't market to families) I rarely end up on a Midwest plane with screaming kids or crying babies. (I fully admit I am not a fan of kids and thus I take steps to avoid them. I'm not going to throw rocks at them or anything, but let's just say you won't catch me at Chuck E Cheese.)

Since I haven't flown any other airline since discovering Midwest 8 or 9 years ago, I don't know if self-check-in kiosks are the norm now, but Midwest has them and they're the shizzle! Dump your bags with the sky cap and then just swipe your Midwest Miles card or the credit card you used to purchase the flight and off to the security gate you go. Painless!

Often I fly with a ton of junk and if I do have an over-size or heavy bag, I have yet to be surcharged for it. Feigning surprise with an apologetic smile and a promise (crossies!) never to do it again gets me by without a fee.

My hope is that Midwest will eventually be a big enough airline to do international flights. So everyone, please check them out if you haven't already! Enjoy their cookies! Nap in their leather seats! Support Midwest!

Hugs!
~Buffie


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## 1300 Class (Apr 9, 2009)

I think its a fair policy. I have long held this sort of view when it comes to flying and seating questions. Its only the fairest option.


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## olwen (Apr 10, 2009)

This is just bad news to me. What if you have to fly for business and the company pays for airfare - as mine does, and some other mode of transportation is out of the question for some reason, like you need to be in person or you have to get there fast or you have to go overseas? I can totally see management giving those kinds of assignments where travel is required to thin employees because it's cheaper regardless of whether or not the fat employee is the best person to handle the account. What if that trip is the difference between a promotion or not? Would the company require the fat employee to reimburse them for the second seat? This just sucks.


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## James (Apr 10, 2009)

Seriously good work Mike. I'd be really interested to see how they respond to your excellently worded questions? Hopefully its got one or two execs scratching their heads and asking one or two legal questions there...?


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## LisaInNC (Apr 10, 2009)

What I have always wondered about this two seat business is, do they make the big body builders buy two seats or is it just people who are fat? Or what about guys with really broad shoulders? Two seats? What about the guy who breaks out the laptop on the plane and takes both armrests? Two seats? I mean this is about space right?


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## Tooz (Apr 10, 2009)

LisaInNC said:


> What I have always wondered about this two seat business is, do they make the big body builders buy two seats or is it just people who are fat? Or what about guys with really broad shoulders? Two seats? What about the guy who breaks out the laptop on the plane and takes both armrests? Two seats? I mean this is about space right?



I always thought the same thing-- I don't think it's the case, though. Probably just fat people.


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## Velvet (Apr 10, 2009)

Excellant, well done, good on ya! Cant wait to hear their response!


fatchicksrockuk said:


> I noticed that United Airlines have a new policy for "passengers requiring extra space" (link below). I emailed the CEO with a few questions...I will post any response I get here!
> 
> "Dear Mr Tilton
> 
> ...


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## Velvet (Apr 10, 2009)

My boyfriend is a serious bodybuilder and has yet to_ ever_ be asked to pay for an extra seat. People see him walk down the aisle and they smile in awe whereas me, you start to see the stares, hear the sighs, and the goodgodpleasenotthosehipsnexttome look, unless a few FA's happen to be onboard, lol 
Good point!




LisaInNC said:


> What I have always wondered about this two seat business is, do they make the big body builders buy two seats or is it just people who are fat? Or what about guys with really broad shoulders? Two seats? What about the guy who breaks out the laptop on the plane and takes both armrests? Two seats? I mean this is about space right?


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## fatchicksrockuk (Apr 10, 2009)

So, I have the responses from United. I have been impressed by the way they have responded, if not impressed by the responses themselves. 

1. Is the extra seat eligible to accrue Mileage Plus miles? *Yes, Mileage Members will earn mileage credit for the extra seat. (EXCLUDES EQM-ELITE QUALIFYING MILES). *

2. As you are now formally requiring large passengers to purchase an extra seat, do you have information as to which planes and which seats have movable armrests? *Yes. United Reservations agents have access to this information and can assist you with questions in this regard. 
*
3. How is this policy compliant with the United Kingdom Disability Discrimination Act 1995 and the Americans with Disabilities Act 1990? *Airlines are not required by applicable laws to provide additional seating or an upgrade free of charge to a passenger who requires additional space. Uniteds policy complies with the Americans with Disabilities Act (Air Carrier Access Act.) *

4. Is a discount offered on the second seat to reflect the lower cost to your airline i.e. one less passenger to process, one less meal to provide? *No. The fare for the second seat will not be lower than your original fare. If an extra seat is available on your flight, you will be able to purchase the extra ticket at the gate for the same fare that you paid for the original ticket. If no additional seats are available on your ticketed flight, then you will need to rebook on the next United flight that has adequate seating available. Any fees that would normally be associated with this type of reservation change will be waived in this circumstance.*

5. I am able to upgrade one companion to Economy Plus with my Premier status - I assume this applies if the companion is large? Y*es, as a Premier member you can still upgrade one companion to Economy Plus. However, the Passengers Requiring Extra Space policy is still in effect for Economy Plus or regular Economy. The Economy Plus seat is the same size as the regular economy seat. The only difference is Economy Plus seats offer up to five inches of additional leg room. *

6. Do you make available information as to which planes have disabled access bathrooms? *Yes. United Reservations agents have direct access to this information and can answer any inquiries you may have concerning which aircraft are equipped with disabled access bathrooms.*

7. Do you follow the policy of other airlines of refunding the extra seat if the flight is not full? *The purchase of the additional seat is nonrefundable unless you purchase a fully refundable ticket.*

Uniteds criteria for if you need a second seat is as follows:
A customer must be able to: 

-	fit into a single seat in the ticketed cabin
-	properly buckle the seatbelt using a single seatbelt extender; and/or
-	put the seats armrests down when seated.

It does beg the question as to who decides this, and when!

If anyone wants me to feed back any comments etc, please let me know. My obvious first one, is that the information as to seats with movable armrests and disabled access bathrooms should be on their website.

I have asked them this:

"I have a couple more comments / questions. In the past, I have found that prices given over the telephone are higher than those on your website. Since United only have the required information (seats with movable arms, disabled access bathrooms) available over the telephone, can you guarantee to price match against your own website. Otherwise, large passengers are being stung twice, once for the extra seat, and again paying more for each seat than a smaller person."

Mike


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## fatchicksrockuk (Apr 10, 2009)

I'm now reading up on the Air Carrier Access Act....I'll be back!


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## fatchicksrockuk (Apr 10, 2009)

So this is the Air Carrier Access Act as far as I can find:

_Section 41705. Discrimination against handicapped individuals

(a) In General. - In providing air transportation, an air
carrier, including (subject to section 40105(b)) any foreign air
carrier, may not discriminate against an otherwise qualified
individual on the following grounds:
(1) the individual has a physical or mental impairment that
substantially limits one or more major life activities.
(2) the individual has a record of such an impairment.
(3) the individual is regarded as having such an impairment._

Question is, is charging for an extra seat discrimination? I believe it is, and I will take this up with United. IMHO, if you meet 1-3 above, they should not charge for an extra seat. It does imply you could end up with, "I'm sorry Sir, you're big enough to need an extra seat but not big enough you get it for free"! Which would be odd.


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## Tina (Apr 10, 2009)

Then they WOULD be violating the law in the U.S. because of that ADA, right?

I used to fly United, with only one exception, but now only fly Air Canada, because Canada has ruled that air carries CANNOT require a fat person to buy two seats. That is law. Screw United. I know this won't help a lot of people who do not have access to Air Canada, but United won't get any more of my money.

Mike, I appreciate very much your tenacity. Thank you.


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## fatchicksrockuk (Apr 10, 2009)

OK, my bad...the Air Carrier Access Act is a 16 page document!

Link here: http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/rules/382short.doc

It contains this:

*§ 382.57 Charges for accommodations prohibited.

Carriers shall not impose charges for providing facilities, equipment, or services that are required by this part to be provided to qualified individuals with a disability.*

Looks pretty open and shut to me! Lets see what they have to say to this!!


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## TraciJo67 (Apr 10, 2009)

There have already been a number of lawsuits about this issue, and none of them have been successful. U.S. courts have ruled that obesity is not a handicap. 

Unfortunately, it is at the airline's discretion to decide how they handle passengers of size. I'd like to see some kind of legislation -- especially as it relates to how the airline determines who needs an extra seat, but particularly in terms of how much they can charge. In an ideal world, it would be nice if the airlines simply installed several extra large seats. Since they are not mandated to do so, they likely never will. They'll simply continuing to charge, at their discretion, passengers that they deem unable to fit into a single seat.

I will say this: It's a deeply unpleasant experience to be crammed up against someone who is taking up more than his/her alloted seat space, whether that be due to size or just some inconsiderate lug who thinks he deserves both arm rests. Last year, my husband sat next to a very large man who took up 1/2 of my husband's seat. When it became apparent that my husband couldn't seat himself without half of his own body spilling into the aisle, the man was asked to leave and stand by for another flight. He raised a huge, angry stink. He had to know that he wasn't going to fit into one seat, and that if the flight was full, he may be required to take another one. I cannot understand why in the world he thought that he had a "right" to make an angry, excruciatingly embarrassing scene. 





fatchicksrockuk said:


> So this is the Air Carrier Access Act as far as I can find:
> 
> _Section 41705. Discrimination against handicapped individuals
> 
> ...


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## fatchicksrockuk (Apr 10, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> There have already been a number of lawsuits about this issue, and none of them have been successful. U.S. courts have ruled that obesity is not a handicap.



Traci - do you have links to these cases? In general, I would agree that obesity is not a handicap. However, in some cases, I firmly believe that it is covered under this act. There are no get-out clauses in it.


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## Skinny6ft4 (Apr 10, 2009)

this is not so immediately related to the point of this thread...

but i just wanted to share that having a really skinny significant other can be a benefit when flying. i'm 6'3.5" and 90 lbs... abnormally narrow and small frame... so i use up half the space on my seat at best. when i've flown before with a bbw gf, they always appreciated the ability to spread out into the unused space on my seat.


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## fatchicksrockuk (Apr 10, 2009)

Rats rats rats!! I found this:

(i) "Carriers are not required to furnish more than one seat per ticket or to provide a seat in a class of service other than the one the passenger has purchased." 

Thats the get out clause right there


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## TraciJo67 (Apr 10, 2009)

fatchicksrockuk said:


> Traci - do you have links to these cases? In general, I would agree that obesity is not a handicap. However, in some cases, I firmly believe that it is covered under this act. There are no get-out clauses in it.



You can probably find them by doing a Google search -- Southwest Airlines has successfully defended itself from this type of lawsuit several times (so start with Southwest). 

One thing I do remember reading is that Canadian carriers did actually pass a law that it is illegal to require passengers of size to purchase 2 tickets -- they did conclude that obesity is a disability when framing the rationale for the ruling.


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## Brenda (Apr 10, 2009)

I am fat and fully occupy my seat. I can put the bar down but prefer not to. My husband and I were sat next to a large woman on a flight a few months ago. She was too large to fit in the sit and as she was very heavy on top her shoulders were also occupying part of my sit. I did not want to make her feel bad so I just sat down and spent the next three hours in physical pain. Literally we could not all sit back so I kept lurching forward yet she seemed oblivious and never took a turn leaning forward. She just turned on her ipod and ignored our discomfort. So it became my job to make room for her and that irked me.

While I do think the airlines should provide two seats for those who need them, they don't. I guess if I was at the point where I could not get myself in one seat I would either fly off peak, travel with someone who was willing for me to mooch some space off of or pay for the extra ticket. 

Brenda


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## TraciJo67 (Apr 10, 2009)

OK, found one link -- it references other lawsuits regarding second seats. Hopefully, this will point you in the right direction: 

http://overlawyered.com/2006/02/jury-customer-of-size-not-victim-of-airline-bias/


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 11, 2009)

Brenda said:


> While I do think the airlines should provide two seats for those who need them, they don't. I guess if I was at the point where I could not get myself in one seat I would either fly off peak, travel with someone who was willing for me to mooch some space off of or pay for the extra ticket.



I don't believe its the airlines responsibility to provide 2 seats, why should they be expected to take a loss on a full flight? Airlines, just like every other company in this country are stuggling to make a buck. 

If the flight isn't full then the cost of the second seat should be refunded, some airlines don't do this though. Having to tell a fat passenger that they aren't going to fit in one seat is not fun, it sucks for the passenger and it sucks for the agent having to do it. 

I dont want to be considered disabled just because I'm fat, I may take up more room than the average person but I'm certainly not disabled.


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## Brenda (Apr 11, 2009)

""I don't believe its the airlines responsibility to provide 2 seats, why should they be expected to take a loss on a full flight? Airlines, just like every other company in this country are stuggling to make a buck.""

So it is my responsibility to suck it up?

What should they have done? It was obviously an issue and nothing was done.


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 11, 2009)

Brenda said:


> ""I don't believe its the airlines responsibility to provide 2 seats, why should they be expected to take a loss on a full flight? Airlines, just like every other company in this country are stuggling to make a buck.""
> 
> So it is my responsibility to suck it up?
> 
> What should they have done? It was obviously an issue and nothing was done.



Its your responsibility to either purchase a second seat if you need one, or if your seat is being infringed upon ask to be moved to another seat.


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## 1300 Class (Apr 11, 2009)

> I don't believe its the airlines responsibility to provide 2 seats, why should they be expected to take a loss on a full flight? Airlines, just like every other company in this country are stuggling to make a buck.
> 
> If the flight isn't full then the cost of the second seat should be refunded, some airlines don't do this though. Having to tell a fat passenger that they aren't going to fit in one seat is not fun, it sucks for the passenger and it sucks for the agent having to do it.
> 
> I dont want to be considered disabled just because I'm fat, I may take up more room than the average person but I'm certainly not disabled.


Agree 100% Ella Bella.



> There have already been a number of lawsuits about this issue, and none of them have been successful. U.S. courts have ruled that obesity is not a handicap.
> 
> Unfortunately, it is at the airline's discretion to decide how they handle passengers of size. I'd like to see some kind of legislation -- especially as it relates to how the airline determines who needs an extra seat, but particularly in terms of how much they can charge. In an ideal world, it would be nice if the airlines simply installed several extra large seats. Since they are not mandated to do so, they likely never will. They'll simply continuing to charge, at their discretion, passengers that they deem unable to fit into a single seat.
> 
> I will say this: It's a deeply unpleasant experience to be crammed up against someone who is taking up more than his/her alloted seat space, whether that be due to size or just some inconsiderate lug who thinks he deserves both arm rests. Last year, my husband sat next to a very large man who took up 1/2 of my husband's seat. When it became apparent that my husband couldn't seat himself without half of his own body spilling into the aisle, the man was asked to leave and stand by for another flight. He raised a huge, angry stink. He had to know that he wasn't going to fit into one seat, and that if the flight was full, he may be required to take another one. I cannot understand why in the world he thought that he had a "right" to make an angry, excruciatingly embarrassing scene.


Agree 100% TraciJo67.


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## BigCutieTrysta (Apr 11, 2009)

Brenda said:


> I am fat and fully occupy my seat. I can put the bar down but prefer not to. My husband and I were sat next to a large woman on a flight a few months ago. She was too large to fit in the sit and as she was very heavy on top her shoulders were also occupying part of my sit. I did not want to make her feel bad so I just sat down and spent the next three hours in physical pain. Literally we could not all sit back so I kept lurching forward yet she seemed oblivious and never took a turn leaning forward. She just turned on her ipod and ignored our discomfort. So it became my job to make room for her and that irked me.
> 
> While I do think the airlines should provide two seats for those who need them, they don't. I guess if I was at the point where I could not get myself in one seat I would either fly off peak, travel with someone who was willing for me to mooch some space off of or pay for the extra ticket.
> 
> Brenda



I fly quite frequently and I do fit in the seat with the arm down, but very tightly. Its not exactly comfortable, but I make due when I have to. I do try to fly off peak when I can, but when I do end up on a full flight I make every effort to not be in the way for the person next to me. I'm well aware of the multiple people holding their breathes as I come down the aisle, hoping that I'm not going to take the seat next to them. I generally try and pick aisle seats so I can overflow a bit into it when there aren't people coming up and down it. I also try to break the ice with the people next to me ...usually with a "I know I'm big and kind of take up a lot of room, but just let me know if I'm encroaching on your space. I generally spend the flight trying to ignore that my thigh is pinched and going numb and usually prop myself somewhat forward to stay out of my neighbors way as much as possible. I've also found myself on full flights in the row with the only other fat person on the plane. A lot of the time, the flight attendants are really nice about a little rearrangement of rows to make everyone a bit more comfortable.
As far as southwest (which everyone has seemed to love on here), the last several times I've flown them, they've made me pre-board and prove that I can fit. Never had to buy a 2nd seat yet, but find it strange that I've had to do this on partially filled flights. Even once saw a big hawaiian/samoan guy be forced to purchase a 2nd ticket and the flight was only 1/2 full. NO other airline to date has made me prove I fit. 

Thats my personal experience on some recent flights. I think if the flight is full then its completely reasonable to charge for an extra seat or delay for a non full flight, but if the other seat is not in use then there should definitely not be any extra charge.


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## Brenda (Apr 12, 2009)

""if your seat is being infringed upon ask to be moved to another seat.""

I totally disagree with this. It should never be the customers job to raise a stink and possibly get in a confrontation with another passenger. It is the airlines job to insure my comfort because I am paying them, nothing should be required of me beyond following the safety laws.
__________________


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## indy500tchr (Apr 12, 2009)

BigCutieTrysta said:


> I fly quite frequently and I do fit in the seat with the arm down, but very tightly. Its not exactly comfortable, but I make due when I have to. I do try to fly off peak when I can, but when I do end up on a full flight I make every effort to not be in the way for the person next to me. I'm well aware of the multiple people holding their breathes as I come down the aisle, hoping that I'm not going to take the seat next to them. I generally try and pick aisle seats so I can overflow a bit into it when there aren't people coming up and down it. I also try to break the ice with the people next to me ...usually with a "I know I'm big and kind of take up a lot of room, but just let me know if I'm encroaching on your space. I generally spend the flight trying to ignore that my thigh is pinched and going numb and usually prop myself somewhat forward to stay out of my neighbors way as much as possible. I've also found myself on full flights in the row with the only other fat person on the plane. A lot of the time, the flight attendants are really nice about a little rearrangement of rows to make everyone a bit more comfortable.
> As far as southwest (which everyone has seemed to love on here), the last several times I've flown them, they've made me pre-board and prove that I can fit. Never had to buy a 2nd seat yet, but find it strange that I've had to do this on partially filled flights. Even once saw a big hawaiian/samoan guy be forced to purchase a 2nd ticket and the flight was only 1/2 full. *NO other airline to date has made me prove I fit. *
> Thats my personal experience on some recent flights. I think if the flight is full then its completely reasonable to charge for an extra seat or delay for a non full flight, but if the other seat is not in use then there should definitely not be any extra charge.



Continental made me preboard once to prove i could fit in. I barely was able to put the bar down but could. Instead they sat me in a single seat which I was able to put the arm rest up with PLENTY of room. Ever since then I wonder why on earth do window seats have to have armrests by the window. You can totally get like 3 extra inches of room if you didn't have it.


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## VelvetKiss (Apr 13, 2009)

There are some airlines that even if your traveling with a thinner companion and you could take up part of their seat, they still will require you to buy a second seat.


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## Filly (Apr 13, 2009)

Gosh I am a little scared now! 

I will be flying from Australia to the US later this week on United Air. The first leg of my flight is over 13 hours, and the second leg is over 5 hours. 

I will be absolutely heartbroken if they make me purchase an additional seat because I simply wouldn't be able to afford it. 

Plus I have been feeling quite "fragile" lately so would probably burst into tears at check in if the operator looked me up and down and told me I was too fat!! *sigh*


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Apr 13, 2009)

VelvetKiss said:


> There are some airlines that even if your traveling with a thinner companion and you could take up part of their seat, they still will require you to buy a second seat.




Which airlines???? So I can avoid them!!!


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## ashmamma84 (Apr 13, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> I don't believe its the airlines responsibility to provide 2 seats, why should they be expected to take a loss on a full flight? Airlines, just like every other company in this country are stuggling to make a buck.
> 
> If the flight isn't full then the cost of the second seat should be refunded, some airlines don't do this though. Having to tell a fat passenger that they aren't going to fit in one seat is not fun, it sucks for the passenger and it sucks for the agent having to do it.
> 
> I dont want to be considered disabled just because I'm fat, I may take up more room than the average person but I'm certainly not disabled.



Yep, I agree. I cannot stand being squished next to someone who clearly needs to have two seats, especially for international travel. It just makes the flying experience (which I generally enjoy) so stressful. It's no different then the women who proceeds to lay out the contents of her diaper bag across two tray tables, etc. Having a wee bit of respect for your fellow (paying) traveler goes a long way in a cramped space. 

ps - I wonder if airlines have actually thought about designing aircrafts with slightly larger seats because frankly seating can suck for anyone, fat or not. My SO has long(ish) legs and it can be pretty uncomfy for her as well.


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## TraciJo67 (Apr 13, 2009)

ashmamma84 said:


> Yep, I agree. I cannot stand being squished next to someone who clearly needs to have two seats, especially for international travel. It just makes the flying experience (which I generally enjoy) so stressful. It's no different then the women who proceeds to lay out the contents of her diaper bag across two tray tables, etc. *Having a wee bit of respect for your fellow (paying) traveler goes a long way in a cramped space.*
> 
> ps - I wonder if airlines have actually thought about designing aircrafts with slightly larger seats because frankly seating can suck for anyone, fat or not. My SO has long(ish) legs and it can be pretty uncomfy for her as well.



Agree with the highlighted part, do I ever. I hate rude, inconsiderate people -- especially those with small children, and they do nothing to corral them (not talking about keeping them quiet -- lord knows, I understand how difficult THAT is ... but I'd never let my little guy repeatedly kick the back of someone's seat, especially if I wasn't being mindful and it was brought to my attention that he was doing it). 

I don't like being squashed either, but in my experience -- both as a formerly fat and now so-called 'average' size woman -- most fat people are very aware of the space that they occupy and try very hard to minimize the discomfort of those around them. Give me a fat person to squinch next to any day, as opposed to some boorish jerk who thinks that because he possesses a penis, that also means he gets to own both armrests.


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## 1300 Class (Apr 13, 2009)

> because he possesses a penis, that also means he gets to own both armrests.


Damn,, I thought the one came with the other, no questions asked...






Only joking. Yeah, people who do do that are pains in the arses.


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## Buffie (Apr 14, 2009)

olwen said:


> This is just bad news to me. What if you have to fly for business and the company pays for airfare - as mine does, and some other mode of transportation is out of the question for some reason, like you need to be in person or you have to get there fast or you have to go overseas? I can totally see management giving those kinds of assignments where travel is required to thin employees because it's cheaper regardless of whether or not the fat employee is the best person to handle the account. What if that trip is the difference between a promotion or not? Would the company require the fat employee to reimburse them for the second seat? This just sucks.



That sounds like discrimination to me, if a company did that. A company wouldn't be allowed to keep a hearing-impaired employee in a certain position /because of/ their hearing impairment, would it? And a hearing impairment could potentially cost the company more than a non-hearing-impaired person by way of special phone equipment or something.

Good question though... since large people aren't a protected class by law in a lot of states (or perhaps any state) would a company be allowed to get away with it?


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## mango (Apr 15, 2009)

*News Report on new United Airlines Policy...*



> *United To Charge Heavier Passengers Twice To Fly
> 
> Airline Says Overweight Travelers Will Need To Buy Extra Seats Or Be Denied Entry To Planes
> 
> ...


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 15, 2009)

Brenda said:


> ""if your seat is being infringed upon ask to be moved to another seat.""
> 
> I totally disagree with this. It should never be the customers job to raise a stink and possibly get in a confrontation with another passenger. It is the airlines job to insure my comfort because I am paying them, nothing should be required of me beyond following the safety laws.
> __________________




Which is why there's a second seat policy. 

What doesn't work about that policy is that everyone's perception of too fat to fit in a seat is different. Two different people can look at the same fat passenger and you're gonna get two different answers about whether or not that passenger is too big for just one seat. 

So unless airlines are going to start weighing passengers at the check in counter, fat people who need more than one seat are gonna have to fess up, and people who are seated next to someone that's overflowing into their seat are going to have to speak up.

Otherwise everyone can just sit there and be miserable.


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## fatchicksrockuk (Apr 15, 2009)

Ella Bella said:


> Which is why there's a second seat policy.
> 
> What doesn't work about that policy is that everyone's perception of too fat to fit in a seat is different. Two different people can look at the same fat passenger and you're gonna get two different answers about whether or not that passenger is too big for just one seat.
> 
> ...



Weighing people totally wouldn't work. Weight is not a good indication of essentially how wide someone is sitting. The only way to approach this even slightly fairly is to have a "standard" seat in a private area, so in borderline cases the passenger could actually find out how well they fitted. 

Airlines should also really have information as to which seats have movable armrests etc easily available.


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## Tad (Apr 15, 2009)

On a particularly narrow seated plane I've had shoulder fit problems when there were three men in a row. None all that fat, but a couple were pretty broad shouldered, and we just didn't really all fit, sitting back, properly. It was a short flight, thank goodness.

So just saying, it isn't always about teh fat, even, when it comes to fitting into such spaces. A fair number of guys have shoulders more than 19" wide, I think.


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 15, 2009)

fatchicksrockuk said:


> Weighing people totally wouldn't work. Weight is not a good indication of essentially how wide someone is sitting. The only way to approach this even slightly fairly is to have a "standard" seat in a private area, so in borderline cases the passenger could actually find out how well they fitted.




The weighing people comment was sorta tongue in cheek. I can't foresee any airline leasing extra space at an airport to provide a private area for passengers to "try on" a seat. What airline employees (and passengers) can do is request that the passenger pre-board, that way if there are any fit issues you've got time to figure out how to best deal with them. I've used this method, it works pretty well most of the time. I've also upgraded passengers to first class that have trouble fitting.


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## fatgirlflyin (Apr 15, 2009)

edx said:


> On a particularly narrow seated plane I've had shoulder fit problems when there were three men in a row. None all that fat, but a couple were pretty broad shouldered, and we just didn't really all fit, sitting back, properly. It was a short flight, thank goodness.
> 
> So just saying, it isn't always about teh fat, even, when it comes to fitting into such spaces. A fair number of guys have shoulders more than 19" wide, I think.




That's true Ed, flying isn't comfortable for almost anyone.


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## MasterShake (Apr 15, 2009)

Buffie said:


> My hope is that Midwest will eventually be a big enough airline to do international flights. So everyone, please check them out if you haven't already! Enjoy their cookies! Nap in their leather seats! Support Midwest!
> 
> Hugs!
> ~Buffie


Thanks for the great review! 

I'm looking into using them later this year as they're the only ones I've found with a direct flight from KC to Seattle, but I've never used them before and didn't know what to expect!

(and I've only heard of them through all the ads at Kauffman Stadium! )


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## ashmamma84 (Apr 15, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Agree with the highlighted part, do I ever. I hate rude, inconsiderate people -- especially those with small children, and they do nothing to corral them (not talking about keeping them quiet -- lord knows, I understand how difficult THAT is ... but I'd never let my little guy repeatedly kick the back of someone's seat, especially if I wasn't being mindful and it was brought to my attention that he was doing it).
> 
> *I don't like being squashed either, but in my experience -- both as a formerly fat and now so-called 'average' size woman -- most fat people are very aware of the space that they occupy and try very hard to minimize the discomfort of those around them. Give me a fat person to squinch next to any day, as opposed to some boorish jerk who thinks that because he possesses a penis, that also means he gets to own both armrests*.



Well, I'm a fat chick too and I'm well aware of the space I take up, but I do consider it to be a bit rude if you are clearly spilling over into my seat when all that can be alleviated. And frankly, I can't stand anyone who's flying who isn't considerate whether it's the boorish jerk or the fatty; both piss me off equally. 

I think only buying one seat when you need two is just asking for drama. Not everyone is just going suck it up; some folks might outright yell and make a big stink about it causing even further embarassment. I just think that's the sort of thing that's easy target and someone gets called out of their name or some type of disrespect and I'm not trying to go through that. I've seen it with my own eyes before and it ain't pretty.

I don't know if there are any quick fixes for the issue - buying two seats or maybe flying business/first class, but then there's always an issue of money for some...so, dunno.


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## Lorna (Apr 15, 2009)

The last flight I booked in 2007 was with Virgin from Glasgow to Los Angeles, at the time of booking I booked two seats, in the past I have squeezed into one but it is a total pain in the arse.... and thighs... and arms and well every where lol. On a one seat flight I spend my time pushing my hands up the opposite arm sleeves to try and hold my arms in as close to my body as possible so not to invade the space of the person next to me. 
Once a lady refused to sit next to me so I had a lovely flight chatting with her rather cute boyfriend while she scowled her way through the flight a few seats back from us. Another time a larger ladies husband moved so we could sit together and use his seat between us which was really nice and sweet.
The bottom line is I know I take up more than one seat, I know I weigh probably twice what the 'normal' sized person weighs so I dont really have a problem paying for the extra seat. I wouldnt fly with Virgin again however not for any size related issues but just because it was uncomfortable even with the extra seat and just a blah experience for me.
I have never felt I have been treated badly by any flight attendant or check in person all of them have been very respectful and nice. The BEST experience ever was when I was on an international BA flight same destination and the flight attendant saw that the person sitting in the seat in front of me had put their chair fully back so it was about 1" from my body and very discreetly asked if I wanted them to ask the person to put their chair back up or would I like to use the single seat at the rear of the plane and return to my seat for landing. I decided to use the rear seat and had a really nice flight, no attention was drawn to me because of my size but they were aware enough to come to my rescue. Well done British Airways!
I see it like this if I was in a restaurant and asked for two plates of food because one wasnt enough I would expect to pay for both, is this really any different?


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## Buffie (Apr 15, 2009)

MasterShake said:


> Thanks for the great review!
> 
> I'm looking into using them later this year as they're the only ones I've found with a direct flight from KC to Seattle, but I've never used them before and didn't know what to expect!
> 
> (and I've only heard of them through all the ads at Kauffman Stadium! )



They don't advertise much, do they? Odd. 

Can I just say the location of the Kansas City airport is ridiculous?!?!?! It's an hour out of town! What were they thinking???

The Midwest gates at KCI are in Terminal A and they have the self-check-in kiosks, there are even a couple of them so you barely have to wait in line. It rocks!

Get a Midwest Miles card, too. You can earn extras with it. 

Enjoy your warm chocolate chip cookies on your way to Seattle.


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## fanofdimensions (Jul 4, 2009)

velvet I'll happily sit next to you and your hips on any flight in any class ;-)



Velvet said:


> My boyfriend is a serious bodybuilder and has yet to_ ever_ be asked to pay for an extra seat. People see him walk down the aisle and they smile in awe whereas me, you start to see the stares, hear the sighs, and the goodgodpleasenotthosehipsnexttome look, unless a few FA's happen to be onboard, lol
> Good point!


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## TallFatSue (Sep 7, 2009)

fatchicksrockuk said:


> I noticed that United Airlines have a new policy for "passengers requiring extra space"


I haven't flown on United for a decade, and their policy toward large passengers is yet another reason to avoid them. However one of United's partners is Lufthansa and they are A-OK. Hubby & I just flew to and from Germany in Lufthansa Business Class and it was great. No way was I flying transatlantic in Economy (singing: "It's impossible...."  )!

Their Business Class seats were glorified recliners half a meter wide (20 inches?), so I still didn't have all the width I wanted, but it wasn't bad. The armrest between Art & me wouldn't move, but I could LOWER my aisle-side armrest out of my way for more space, and the more I reclined, the less my hips and butt spread out, so it was actually quite comfy. Heck, I could have lain the seat flat had I wanted! Plenty of leg room too. The connecting flight between Frankfurt and Berlin had narrower seats, but it was only an hour so I managed. Food, service etc. were fantastic. The Business Class airport lounges were also very nice.


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## SocialbFly (Sep 7, 2009)

fatchicksrockuk said:


> So, I have the responses from United. I have been impressed by the way they have responded, if not impressed by the responses themselves.
> 
> 1. Is the extra seat eligible to accrue Mileage Plus miles? *Yes, Mileage Members will earn mileage credit for the extra seat. (EXCLUDES EQM-ELITE QUALIFYING MILES). *
> 
> ...



they are full of crap, i have bought extra seats for a while, including united and have never gotten credit for it...i have actually thought of registering a person called XTRA SEAT so i could get the bloody miles, but thanks for letting us know Mike


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## SocialbFly (Sep 7, 2009)

indy500tchr said:


> Continental made me preboard once to prove i could fit in. I barely was able to put the bar down but could. Instead they sat me in a single seat which I was able to put the arm rest up with PLENTY of room. Ever since then I wonder why on earth do window seats have to have armrests by the window. You can totally get like 3 extra inches of room if you didn't have it.



My point exactly, i do believe the airlines have the ability to accomodate people of size, i believe they choose not to, cause it is better to make a whole extra seat than to give extra 3 inches to someone like me...i also think that if i buy an extra seat (which i do) it should be at the lowest possible price, i get no extras for the second seat, i should be given some sort of compensation...


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## BigCutieTiffy (Sep 8, 2009)

i recently had an experience with united airlines and i hate them. before, i flew with another airline and they were fine. but my united experience was horrible. i won't go into details on what happened because it's a long story and will just end up infuriating me, but in the end i had to end up paying an extra 175 bucks. unless you absolutely have to, avoid united.


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## 1300 Class (Sep 9, 2009)

I think its only fair to shed some details before slagging them off.


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## jakub (Sep 9, 2009)

BigCutieTrysta said:


> but find it strange that I've had to do this on partially filled flights.



...exactly.
When I travel with my wife we always try to reserve off-peak.

Unfortunately (mostly in peak times) airlines are over-booking, so you never know how much empty seats are left for real.


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