# Mauritania's 'wife-fattening' farm



## unicks (Dec 27, 2005)

...I've heard of this before, the BBC has printed an article about it, some good reading!


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3429903.stm

Cheers and Merry Christmas 

Unicks


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## kropotkin_fan (Dec 27, 2005)

*Vomits entire stomach and intestines out*

That is horrific! And they say "sizeist" cultures are sexist...


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## ConnieLynn (Dec 27, 2005)

That is an absolutely horrible abuse of children. Unfortunately there are those who will find that article exciting.


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## Totmacher (Dec 28, 2005)

Reality sucks.


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## simon_squarepants (Dec 28, 2005)

*Sigh* back to the ol' "Wow look! They make children get fat!" post...

I'm not sure if it was Mauritiaus but I saw a documentary on this sort of tradition somewhere in Africa, and it was absolutely awful. This grandmother (GRANDMOTHER!) was forcing her weeping granddaughter, who was only about ten or so, to drink ridiculous amounts of milk and to eat various foods, all the while being tortured by her grandmother to "encourage" her. Apparantly this had been happening for two years or so, which made you wonder what had happened considering she was still a slip of a girl. At one point she runs off behind a bush, and when she comes back we realise why she hasnt gained much. She is accused of vomiting, and given more torture for it. 

The grandmother seemed proud of what she was doing in front of the cameras. For them, making a girl fat is the only way of getting a man. How ironic! Some men were interviewed who mainly said they wanted fat wives, and they wanted to feed them up etc etc. They went to a hospital full of obese women suffering with various obesity-related illnesses. 

What this film showed me was that, a) this fantasy that some of us have to see a girl get fatter is by no means new or indeed restricted to a few men, and when the culture is for that sort of thing then most men seem to follow; and b) it doesn't matter what the ideal is, it is almost certain to be perverted and abused when it becomes the dominant force. In that country, if some crazy couple wanted the woman to be slim, then she could just not go through the weight gain process and they would be happy. But when it becomes the main system, as in the West, suddenly the only way to be acceptable is to starve until you can see your ribs. For us feeders, we might have some romantic notion of meeting a girl and just allowing her to gain weight through our love of her and our desire to look after her (well that's my take) but when that is the overall trend, suddenly children are forced into gluttony and tortured if they dont buckle.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all live in a world where nobody expects anything of us in that regard, and a woman doesnt have to be fat or thin or tall or short or anything to be sexy? 

Oh well...

Simon


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## Manhattan (Dec 28, 2005)

There is always a way but it usually isnt pretty. With diversity of ego, or free will, people will never be able to completely fit in a utopia due to no one really knowing what one is. Sure you can say world peace, but thats an enigma in its itself. How long will it last before some despot steps over the weakened nations and enslaves them? Yet again whats so wrong with someone claiming what they rightfully earned, dare I say deserved? And if none of that happens then what next? 

Struggle keeps things interesting; otherwise no one would have anything to post on the forum.


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## bigdog (Dec 28, 2005)

This story is really old. Almost two years old, in fact. 



> 26 January, *2004*, 16:21 GMT



Not sure how it has come into focus again? I saw Conrad had posted it to the News section on the homepage.


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## Wilson Barbers (Dec 28, 2005)

Seems to me I remember it being discussed on the old Board when it first came out - or was that me traveling through an alternate dimension again?


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## simon_squarepants (Dec 28, 2005)

No I remember that too... also it's turned up on various other boards and groups when I've dared to wander from the mighty walls of Dimensions...

I'm not sure what world peace and "utopia" has got to do with my idea of women not being forced to strive for one specific notion of beauty though...

Again I say, oh well


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## BBW Betty (Dec 28, 2005)

simon_squarepants said:


> Wouldn't it be nice if we could all live in a world where nobody expects anything of us in that regard, and a woman doesnt have to be fat or thin or tall or short or anything to be sexy?



Here, here. Isn't that the whole point of "size acceptance?"


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## CurvaceousBBWLover (Dec 28, 2005)

simon_squarepantsWouldn't it be nice if we could all live in a world where nobody expects anything of us in that regard said:


> EXACTLY! This is the world we should be working to live in. I don't understand why the dominant culture wants women to starve; I don't understand why men would want to make a woman gain weight for a sex thrill.
> 
> Why can't people just be themselves and not be attacked?


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## 1300 Class (Dec 28, 2005)

And then everyone can continue on merrily skipping through the ranks of society where everyone eats candy and chocolates every day, and everyone has shunshine in their veins. Humans by their very nature are competitive and want to be better than the person next to them. May sound awfully cynical and jaded, but there will never be a Utopia, never a paradise, never be equal. Society will always have one dominering element in it, and in this case in the west, thin is in, and in this case in Mauritania, this is in. 


> I'm not sure what world peace and "utopia" has got to do with my idea of women not being forced to strive for one specific notion of beauty though...


Because the thin dominates the large, it is the drive and cravence to become acceptable to the dominant faction within society that drive this image of beauty.


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## Totmacher (Dec 29, 2005)

BBW Betty said:


> Here, here. Isn't that the whole point of "size acceptance?"




No, I don't think so. Not originally anyway. Over the years I think it's been diluted to be more PC and include everybody.


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## exile in thighville (Dec 29, 2005)

unicks said:


> ...I've heard of this before, the BBC has printed an article about it, some good reading!
> 
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3429903.stm
> ...



oh man that's sexy...does anyone else do mauritanian fattening hut roleplays in bed? believe you me, it's hotter than a 12 year old laotian boy.


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## simon_squarepants (Dec 29, 2005)

Ok, to answer a few points, it is a shame that women always feel compelled to lose or gain weight depending on current trends. However, does that mean that if an individual man meets an individual woman and genuinely feels more attracted to her when she is heavier/lighter/has longer hair/wears glasses instead of contacts or the other way round blah blah blah, that it would be wrong of her to do little things that she knows will just make her more alluring? Surely not, and what's more I cant imagine many women seriously rejecting the idea when it comes down to it. The same goes for men, if there's something in particular that his partner prefers him to do physically, such as stay in shape, shave, not shave, you get the idea, then surely there can be nothing wrong with that.

I say all this because my earlier posts are not an attack on feederism as a concept, as curvaceousBBWlover turner it into. I am attracted to women of all sizes but do still love the idea of a woman gaining weight, not to hurt her or anything, but almost as a sign that I am caring for her properly I suppose. I'm even starting to feel the same way about a girl losing weight naturally - almost as if the journey and variations are far more fun than just staying the same size your whole life.The point is that there is nothing wrong with prefering your girls fat, thin, tall, pointy, spherical, tattooed, pierced, or any of the other millions of permetations. I love being in a world where you can walk down a street and see a size 10 girl one minute, and someone three times her size the next, and personally I could very well find each equally sexy in different ways. My point is that no-one should be here saying that anything else is wrong - that grandmother shouldn't have been making her skinny grandchild gorge herself in order to gain weight, and schoolgirls in our countries shouldnt be starving themselves just to be skinny.

Why on Earth does that require some marvellous "utopia"? As far as I can see, all it needs is for everyone to actually stop for a moment, develop their own feelings about things, and then accept that everyone else has the right to do the same.

As a last point, could Australian Lord please answer one question... What does this mean? "Because the thin dominates the large, it is the drive and cravence to become acceptable to the dominant faction within society that drive this image of beauty."

I'm guessing you're trying to say "thin is in" LOL


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## diableps (Dec 29, 2005)

Context, context, context. This practice in traditional Mauritanion society of fattening a girl up in order to meet a good husband is no different than the traditional American practice of getting a daughter to do homework when she would rather be playing, so that she can go to college, likewise to meet a good husband. (Bill and Hilary) It is just that some traditional practises are abusive when the culture collides with the modern world, which is why it is dying out in Mauritania.
The real question that no one has even asked, let alone found an answer to, is whether these girls some of whom become so fat that they cannot walk suffer any health consequences.


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## LurkingBBW (Dec 29, 2005)

And, although our culture doesn't force women to lose weight, with all of the propaganda out there and weight loss methods, diets, etc. many women feel forced to starve themselves to attain the thin bodies that so are worshipped by so many.Hopefully, one day a larger body will not be admonished by most and more fat women will be happy with their bodies. I know that I am. In fact, I have grown (along with my body) to love my fat, curvy, soft body.


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## CurvaceousBBWLover (Dec 29, 2005)

simon_squarepants said:


> I say all this because my earlier posts are not an attack on feederism as a concept, as curvaceousBBWlover turner it into. I am attracted to women of all sizes but do still love the idea of a woman gaining weight, not to hurt her or anything, but almost as a sign that I am caring for her properly I suppose. I'm even starting to feel the same way about a girl losing weight naturally - almost as if the journey and variations are far more fun than just staying the same size your whole life.The point is that there is nothing wrong with prefering your girls fat, thin, tall, pointy, spherical, tattooed, pierced, or any of the other millions of permetations. I love being in a world where you can walk down a street and see a size 10 girl one minute, and someone three times her size the next, and personally I could very well find each equally sexy in different ways. My point is that no-one should be here saying that anything else is wrong - that grandmother shouldn't have been making her skinny grandchild gorge herself in order to gain weight, and schoolgirls in our countries shouldnt be starving themselves just to be skinny.



Mr. Squarepants, you have completely missed my point. So let me express it as directly as possible: No woman should be pressured for any reason--by her partner or by society--to gain or lose weight. I don't know about you, sir, but I believe in size acceptance. 

I have no interest in attacking another person's sexual preference. The merits of our sexual preferences is another topic for another board. 

The problem I am addressing is not the merits of feederism in general, but the fact that these Mauritanian women are being *FORCED* by their family members to gain weight in order to be considered good catches for men. That is no different from how family members in the US place incredible social pressure on women to lose weight in order to be considered good catches. 

This world would be a lot better off if people would stop pressuring each other to change their appearance in order to be considered "normal."


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## fatlane (Dec 29, 2005)

Dude, they get married off at 10... this is a messed-up society... forced anything is wrong.


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## 1300 Class (Dec 30, 2005)

FL: Who are you to say what is messed up and wrong? Why should your moral, ethical, cultural and societal standards be superior to those demonstrated in this case? 

CBBWL: Unlike a light switch, pressures, trends and desires cannot simpley be turned off and on. There will always be pressure applied by the majority on the minority to force the said minority into the ranks of the majority. Trends shift and change as well as values and morals, but well things are never rosey and peachy.


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## Totmacher (Dec 30, 2005)

diableps said:


> ...
> The real question that no one has even asked, let alone found an answer to, is whether these girls some of whom become so fat that they cannot walk suffer any health consequences.


 
Some sources say they do, some don't mention it. Maybe in another couple years someone will write another article and we'll know 


LurkingBBW said:


> And, although our culture doesn't force women to lose weight, with all of the propaganda out there and weight loss methods, diets, etc. many women feel forced to starve themselves to attain the thin bodies that so are worshipped by so many.Hopefully, one day a larger body will not be admonished by most and more fat women will be happy with their bodies. I know that I am. In fact, I have grown (along with my body) to love my fat, curvy, soft body.



Actually I think that there are definate parallels. Girls growing up are told to loose weight so they can find a mate and we have places rich people are sent to loose weight (ever heard of fat camp?) The real difference is a matter of degree. 


Australian Lord said:


> FL: Who are you to say what is messed up and wrong? Why should your moral, ethical, cultural and societal standards be superior to those demonstrated in this case?



As I learned in Anthro 101, what you do in this situation is you open up a, "dialogue" between people of both cultures where you compare and contrast the different aspects of each culture, and see what you like. It seems here that the majority of muaritanians aren't too happy with the practice and, FL's statement could well be supported by the evidence.


Australian Lord said:


> CBBWL: Unlike a light switch, pressures, trends and desires cannot simpley be turned off and on. There will always be pressure applied by the majority on the minority to force the said minority into the ranks of the majority. Trends shift and change as well as values and morals, but well things are never rosey and peachy.


 Well isn't the point of the Size Acceptance movement to try and increase the demographics of people who find size acceptable to majority status? Sure there will always be pressure, but as long as it's not directed at us that's a little better.


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## Dark Willow (Dec 30, 2005)

I think this comes down to the exotic is always desirable. In western countries where being fat is the norm, the skeletally thin is rare, and therefore precious/desirable. In regions where thinness is more common (this is not pandering to a stereotype that all africa is starving, it isn't by a long shot, but obesity is hardly an epidemic in the Sahara/Sahel nations) then fatness becomes rare, exotic and desirable/precious.

At the end of the day people want what they haven't got, and the culture grows up around that, and evolves with it.

In some pacific islands, fatness was considered desirable for the same reasons. As those places developed and prospered, fatness became more common and so the culture switched around, and now cherishes thinness.


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## simon_squarepants (Dec 30, 2005)

VERY briefly...

Yes, as I've already said, there are very definite health consequences for these obese women (and we arent talking immobile people either), as was shown when the cameras on this documentary went round a hospital. 

And for the love of everything wobbly curvaceousBBWlover, calm down LOL... As I have already said (again) I am totally against what is going on in parts of Africa like that. My point is that if we all accepted each other and allowed for different preferences and opinions, then we wouldn't get these awful situations because instead girls would be allowed a childhood, allowed to grow up properly. Of course this also relies on men being more flexible than just saying "she's fatter/thinner than I hoped - she's no good!"

Maybe that cleared that up... maybe...


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## 1300 Class (Dec 30, 2005)

T: All because a majority agree with something, does not condone it/rule it out, perhaps as the political void in the United States today can atestify to that. So we should pick and choose which morals and ethics and cultural aspects we like? Without taking into consideration the lesser or even negative aspects of that culture or society?

The point of size acceptance is namely that, acceptance.


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## MissToodles (Dec 30, 2005)

I think size acceptance may be a foreign concept outside of non western countries.


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## Dark Willow (Dec 30, 2005)

The West does not have a monopoly on progressive thought. There are size acceptence movements outside of the West, and have been for some considerable time. Many of them are different in nature to what can be seen in places such as the US, shaped by they respective cultures, social norms and political factors, but they most certinaly do exist. 

As for the situation in Mauritania, I don't know a great deal about that part of the world first hand, though from what this article said. From what else I've read and heard about from there, I think the "fat farm" is now quite rare, if it's not died out already (A Mauritanian article said this had already happened back in 2002, obviously not the case), though I imagine in nearby countries (that are not as well off) I would think there is still something similar happening (some cases of similar things in the Central African Republic surfaced not so long ago). Size Acceptence there isn't a paticularly strong concept and I don't think that the decline of these practises is a sign of that changing, raher just a shift from "fat is good" to "thin is good". Other than lowering the family food bill and the obvious direct benefit to the kids of these "farms" withering away, not much further good will come. The best I'm hoping for is that paying people to starve your young daughter won't take off as the next big thing instead.


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## kropotkin_fan (Dec 30, 2005)

> I think this comes down to the exotic is always desirable. In western countries where being fat is the norm, the skeletally thin is rare, and therefore precious/desirable. In regions where thinness is more common (this is not pandering to a stereotype that all africa is starving, it isn't by a long shot, but obesity is hardly an epidemic in the Sahara/Sahel nations) then fatness becomes rare, exotic and desirable/precious.
> 
> At the end of the day people want what they haven't got, and the culture grows up around that, and evolves with it.
> 
> In some pacific islands, fatness was considered desirable for the same reasons. As those places developed and prospered, fatness became more common and so the culture switched around, and now cherishes thinness.



Exactly. That Westerners prefer thin over fat is a sign of our plenty. If you ask me, we should consider ourselves lucky to be born in a nation that has enough to eat.


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## fatlane (Dec 30, 2005)

Australian Lord said:


> FL: Who are you to say what is messed up and wrong? Why should your moral, ethical, cultural and societal standards be superior to those demonstrated in this case?



Forcing people into marriage or situations involving abusive behavior are pretty much universally regarded as messed up and wrong. They are contrary to notions of liberty and the dignity of life. This is also why I'm against child prostitution, for example.

I have just as much authority on the matter as does the Pope or the President of the USA. I just don't have as many people who believe in my authority as they do.


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## Dark Willow (Dec 30, 2005)

fatlane said:


> Forcing people into marriage or situations involving abusive behavior are pretty much universally regarded as messed up and wrong. They are contrary to notions of liberty and the dignity of life. This is also why I'm against child prostitution, for example.
> 
> I have just as much authority on the matter as does the Pope or the President of the USA. I just don't have as many people who believe in my authority as they do.



They are not universal values. They are the values of a paticular school of thought that you (and as it happens, I also) subscribe too. Our values hold personal liberty of the individual as being sacred, not everyone does. There are many points of view, many cultures, many perceptions. Because we believe in something doesn't make it universal. I am not familar with Mauritanian culture, so I don't know their specific reasoning for fat farms, but there most certinaly will be one, as our culture has a reasoning for the things we do, so they will too.

I am not justifying it, I am simply pointing out that if you went to Mauritania, they will not see it as you do.


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## fatlane (Dec 30, 2005)

Noted. I know how to keep my mouth shut when there's more people around me who have a divergent view - especially if they can lay their hands on me.

But, uh, NOBODY likes being forced to do anything. While, yes, kids get forced into all kinds of things, those endangering health and future freedom of choice are flat-out wrong. Granted, I'm a Jeffersonian at heart. We should all have life, liberty, and property ownership rights. These are inalienable rights.

I also have a bone to pick with folks who engage in human sacrifices. It's wrong, it's evil, and has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not the sun rises tomorrow.

It's good that there's less of this sort of thing going on in Mauretania (which also still practices human slavery, among other nations of the region), as it means there is more liberalization of thought.


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## kropotkin_fan (Dec 30, 2005)

> But, uh, NOBODY likes being forced to do anything. While, yes, kids get forced into all kinds of things, those endangering health and future freedom of choice are flat-out wrong. Granted, I'm a Jeffersonian at heart. We should all have life, liberty, and property ownership rights. These are inalienable rights.



If I may play devil's advocate (as I often do on this forum, it seems), why? Why are they unalienable?


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## fatlane (Dec 30, 2005)

Because GOD said so. Now go to hell, you DEVIL'S ADVOCATE!!!

I will now call down fire from the heavens to smite you. I do that when I play Morally Absolute Intolerant Monotheistic Advocate, although I typically opt for a Pluralistic Syncretist Truth-Seeker Advocate.


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## Totmacher (Dec 30, 2005)

Australian Lord said:


> T: .... So we should pick and choose which morals and ethics and cultural aspects we like? Without taking into consideration the lesser or even negative aspects of that culture or society?
> 
> The point of size acceptance is namely that, acceptance.




Well, I think life would be a lot easier if we could do that, yes. If the Muaritanians want to stop patronizing fat farms because they happen to like the equal human rights aspect of western culture who are you to force them to keep going? The world would be a better place if people could see the big picture and consider the consequences of their actions before acting, but alass,we can't mandate that they do. I think the slow myopic meanderings of Muaritanian culture towards something a little less oppressive is better than nothing.

Who's acceptance is being sought if not the majority?


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## 1300 Class (Dec 30, 2005)

In the end, I don't care about Mauritania or the Mauritanian's, I will never go there, they will never be in a position to influence me or the world as a whole, so they can do whatever the heck they want there.



> Who's acceptance is being sought if not the majority?


Well who knows. Right a letter to someone to find out.


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## Dark Willow (Dec 31, 2005)

I'd like to think that what we are seeing in Mauritania is a shift towards a culture that gives the individual a little more space and personal freedom, and, as a _side effect_ of whats happening we might be, however what is happening is not becuase the culture of the region is shifting towards personal liberty. I think it's more simply because preference has shifted from fat to thin and that as a result force feeding is no longer a good way to ensure marrigeability. That the new pressure for thiness will be less intense by virtue of the fact that in that region you don't have to go out of you way to be thin, ratehr than because of greater space for the rights of individual young girls.

It's good in our cultural eyes that this sadism is dying away, and to those affected, but we shouldn't be blind or unrealstic about what is coming to replace it. Men want thin wives instead of fat ones, neither is exactly a triumph for progressive thought on the perception of women. It's about what the guys want, tis all - it was before and still is.


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## Dark Willow (Dec 31, 2005)

Australian Lord said:


> In the end, I don't care about Mauritania or the Mauritanian's, I will never go there, they will never be in a position to influence me or the world as a whole, so they can do whatever the heck they want there.



It's as beautiful but very very troubled place. Most places are, one way or another.


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## fatlane (Dec 31, 2005)

Mathis, Texas is an ugly and only slighty troubled place.


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## Dark Willow (Dec 31, 2005)

IN that case I guess you pays your money and takes your choice *s*


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## exile in thighville (Jan 2, 2006)

fatlane said:


> Dude, they get married off at 10... this is a messed-up society... forced anything is wrong.



except for forced marshmallows. i mean, come on, marshmallows are delicious. they should be mandatory.


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## Stiffler (Jan 2, 2006)

Old McDonald had a farm E-I-E-i-Whoahhhhhhhhhh. COCKadoodle doo!!!! Great post. Stiffler


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## CurvaceousBBWLover (Jan 2, 2006)

Dark Willow said:


> Size Acceptence there isn't a paticularly strong concept and I don't think that the decline of these practises is a sign of that changing, raher just a shift from "fat is good" to "thin is good". Other than lowering the family food bill and the obvious direct benefit to the kids of these "farms" withering away, not much further good will come. The best I'm hoping for is that paying people to starve your young daughter won't take off as the next big thing instead.



Actually, size acceptance is a radical concept that challenges people's basic notions of health, beauty and female desirablity.


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## 1300 Class (Jan 3, 2006)

Well it challanges the current "thin is good" fad more than anything else. Notions of health, beauty and desirablity are contantly changing.


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