# Rationalized castration



## Ernest Nagel (Sep 27, 2009)

Have you ever talked yourself out of being attracted to someone? I don't mean you just convinced yourself not to take action. This isn't about pain avoidance or preempting rejection. I'm talking about recognizing someone who's truly, comprehensively attractive and for whatever reason you consciously elected to "switch it off" for her? If so, why and do you ever regret it?


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## Dr. Feelgood (Sep 27, 2009)

No, but I've tried to do the opposite -- talk myself INTO being excited about a woman who was good-looking, intelligent, articulate, warm, funny, honest, and charming -- everything I OUGHT to go for. It didn't work.


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## Ned Sonntag (Sep 27, 2009)

Ernest Nagel said:


> Have you ever talked yourself out of being attracted to someone? I don't mean you just convinced yourself not to take action. This isn't about pain avoidance or preempting rejection. I'm talking about recognizing someone who's truly, comprehensively attractive and for whatever reason you consciously elected to "switch it off" for her? If so, why and do you ever regret it?


 Well yeah, I saw a perfect 20yr-old supersize goddess in the Newbury Comics in June and maybe shoulda flirted but technically I could be her granddad... it ain't easy. It was tough but I didn't remove my testicles over it.:doh:


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## Captain Save (Sep 27, 2009)

Kudos to the OP, for one of the more provocative and downright alarming thread titles on the boards!

The initial shock aside, I don't think I've ever seen a flawlessly desirable specimen of womanhood in person and elected to rationalize away any desire I might have had. There was always a reason to stop before I got started, such as a significant other, fashion sense of the undercover vice squad, or a serious age discrepancy. Most often it was a dealbreaking habit, such as cigarettes, a cheap adult beverage in a brown paper bag, or a voice that made Fran Drescher's Nanny sound velvety and dreamy by comparison. Of course, being so perfect in my own right (HA HA HA!) maybe I wasn't the kind of person she would even find attractive; if I knew this for a fact, I wouldn't consider her available or attractive any longer.


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## Melian (Sep 27, 2009)

Yes! Only once, though...

I had just moved to a new city for undergrad, was totally dissatisfied with the quality of men available there, but eventually found one who was attractive, smart and shared all my interests. We became friends, he was showing interest in me...but he had a long distance gf. I started making moves on him anyway, until a mutual friend told me to cool it, because it was just a terrible thing to do. So I took his advice and forced myself to become uninterested in the guy.

It worked so well that, years later, when we were both single, he asked me out and I said "no." I don't regret doing it at all, because it was the "right" thing to do at the time, I suppose, but also because I met my husband shortly thereafter and am very happy with him


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## kioewen (Sep 28, 2009)

Ernest Nagel said:


> Have you ever talked yourself out of being attracted to someone? I don't mean you just convinced yourself not to take action. This isn't about pain avoidance or preempting rejection. I'm talking about recognizing someone who's truly, comprehensively attractive and for whatever reason you consciously elected to "switch it off" for her? If so, why and do you ever regret it?



I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between convincing oneself not to take action (preempting rejection) and electing to "switch it off." Switch what off? What's the difference? If you actually mean, "Finding a way to make the mind consider someone _un_attractive whom one instinctively finds attractive", then no. I don't even know how that would be possible. But if others have done it, then that's remarkable.

As for convincing oneself not to take action (preempting rejection), then yes, all the time. More often then not, in fact.


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## Tad (Sep 28, 2009)

I wouldn't use the same terminology, but certainly I've learned to kind of automatically short-circuit my attraction to some women. 

When you are working with someone, and want to give them full professional respect, it is not a useful response to be all but drooling whenever you see them. So I've managed at various times kind of train myself, so that about the point where my instincts start going "Wow, she's " I have some process that jumps in and manages to stop that train of thought before it really gets started. 

I find it tends to be easier as I've gotten older, what maybe took months in my twenties can be done in days now. I'm not sure if it is practice, or just lower hormone levels


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## StarWitness (Sep 28, 2009)

I'm acquainted with a good-looking guy who's about my age, intelligent, well-educated, charming, and a great listener. He really gets me.

...unfortunately, it's very counterproductive to flirt with one's therapist. Shut it down.


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## Ernest Nagel (Sep 28, 2009)

kioewen said:


> I'm having a hard time seeing the difference between convincing oneself not to take action (preempting rejection) and electing to "switch it off." Switch what off? What's the difference? If you actually mean, "Finding a way to make the mind consider someone _un_attractive whom one instinctively finds attractive", then no. I don't even know how that would be possible. But if others have done it, then that's remarkable.
> 
> As for convincing oneself not to take action (preempting rejection), then yes, all the time. More often then not, in fact.



With no action you can still want desperately. I'm talking about turning off the desire. Capisce?



Tad said:


> I wouldn't use the same terminology, but certainly I've learned to kind of automatically short-circuit my attraction to some women.
> 
> When you are working with someone, and want to give them full professional respect, it is not a useful response to be all but drooling whenever you see them. So I've managed at various times kind of train myself, so that about the point where my instincts start going "Wow, she's " I have some process that jumps in and manages to stop that train of thought before it really gets started.
> 
> I find it tends to be easier as I've gotten older, what maybe took months in my twenties can be done in days now. I'm not sure if it is practice, or just lower hormone levels



I'm not sure the "at work" rule isn't a special case, Tad? I've always accepted the "don't excrete where you eat" rule as inviolable. If professionalism doesn't trump libido you're in the wrong business, JMO.

And I only wish it got easier with age! _Harder_ every day to convince myself I'm too old for even a thirty-something, LOL. Easier just to be too old, period.


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## kioewen (Sep 28, 2009)

Ernest Nagel said:


> With no action you can still want desperately. I'm talking about turning off the desire. Capice?


That's what I supposed. Then no, I can't think of a situation where I've turned off the desire like clicking off a switch. My belief would be that in any case where this was possible, the desire wasn't that strong to begin with. But perhaps others have had different experiences on this score.

The closest that I can think of to an extinguishing of desire is a desire that cools over time, when you interact with someone who is either in an unbreakable relationship or who insistently only wants to be friends. In that case, though, it's only partially an application of will, and just as much, or more, the effect of time passing, which often lessens attraction.


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## Jon Blaze (Sep 28, 2009)

Many times.

It almost always deals with my experience level. In the past someone dumped me for not being at the same level, so I tend to keep the thought on my toes. Some of the time it will dictate whether or not I want to go farther with someone that is essentially "Everything I could ask for," and usually this person is someone I find exceptionally attractive on some level. It doesn't always dictate my movements (And at times it just stays as a passive emotion that I may or may not be able to express), but it's often a consideration in the back of my mind.


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## Ernest Nagel (Sep 29, 2009)

My overriding rationalization is that I wouldn't be good for her and that is primarily because I'm an FA/SSA. I've touched on this some time ago in a "FA Guilt" thread I think but this is slightly different and I'm wondering if any other FA's have experienced this? While I am neither a feeder nor an encourager (not that I'm condemning either) almost every LTR I've ever been in has left my partner with a significant weight gain and usually with concomitant health and mobility issues. 

I have always unreservedly supported my partners weight loss efforts whenever they elected to pursue them. The yo-yo syndrome has always prevailed. Part of the problem is that I try too hard to make life easy for my SS mates. She doesn't need to work unless she wants to. I've always had a housekeeper. I do the shopping, laundry and most of the cooking. I actually like doing all those things and enjoy having someone to care for but the consequent inactivity always has the same adverse effect on her health and mobility. 

The other issue is that I make no secret of how much I adore my partners abundance. I accept her however she is but I can't pretend not to notice and enjoy her added girth. I don't encourage it but I certainly don't renounce it either.

Yes, I know I should let her be more independent but it's not easy to watch someone you care about struggling and in pain when I can readily relieve her. As my age-appropriate dating pool has matured over the years it has gotten even harder to find an attractive SSBBW who isn't already dealing with health/mobility issues. I certainly don't want to exacerbate someone's issues. So I switch off. I tell myself the kindest thing is to let it go and avoid damaging another human being for my selfish gratification. 

The thing is I can't just turn it on for someone much smaller. I've tried and it just isn't there. So just like some men shouldn't drink or wear speedos I've learned to just say 'no' to relationships. I expect I'll always find myself attracted to SSBBW but it seems the decent thing for me is to walk away and not look back. Avoiding temptation altogether (i.e. Dims) is easier than switching off but I'm not quite ready to go there yet, lol.

I know this is kind of a dark road to go down but this is the kind of thing I hoped the FA board would allow us to discuss. Not to dis the FFA's but I do sometimes wish it was private and for males only. I've heard womens takes on this _many_ times already.


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## mergirl (Oct 1, 2009)

Ernest. Not all sssbbws have mobility issues, some wont gain any more weight while in a relationship and i'm not sure i see why you think this is always going to be the case. Perhaps in the past you have has experience of this but its not the rule of thumb. Are you asking if its possible to turn off attraction because you feel it would be better for the woman who would potentially date you? Or are you scared of entering into a new relationship based on the experiences of another? 
Out of interest, what exactly is the 'woman's take' on this?? Last time i checked we all had differing oppinions.


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## BigChaz (Oct 1, 2009)

Sure, I do this all the time when I am concerned about age issues. It's hard to tell these days!


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## Tad (Oct 1, 2009)

Off-topic, but I thought I'd mention, re: Ernest's comment about wishing this place was private and male only.

Quite some time ago I ran a yahoo group for FA in relationships--back before there was much of an obvious female FA presence around Dimensions. I tried not to push it too hard, but I made sure to mention it periodically on Dims. We did end up with a reasonable number of people.

And the group slowly died. In the end we seemed to have about three conversations, which got repeated with small variations a number of times, and eventually nobody had much interest in hashing over them again.

My analysis was that what brought us together was too narrow. Unless we went 'off-topic' there was really just a very limited number of things to talk about, and it got dull.

Having a group that encompassed all male FA, not just ones in relationships, would broaden the focus somewhat. But personally I think it would not be enough to save it from stagnation--again unless we went off topic quite a bit, in which case really it is more like a boys club, for boys who like fat girls. Neither version really interests me to be honest. 

If there are people who are interested, I suggest setting up a group on yahoo or google groups, or an invitation only facebook group. Do some promotions, see if you can get some critical mass going. If that proof of concept works, then maybe something could be done here?


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## chicken legs (Oct 2, 2009)

Ernest Nagel said:


> My overriding rationalization is that I wouldn't be good for her and that is primarily because I'm an FA/SSA. I've touched on this some time ago in a "FA Guilt" thread I think but this is slightly different and I'm wondering if any other FA's have experienced this? While I am neither a feeder nor an encourager (not that I'm condemning either) almost every LTR I've ever been in has left my partner with a significant weight gain and usually with concomitant health and mobility issues.
> 
> I have always unreservedly supported my partners weight loss efforts whenever they elected to pursue them. The yo-yo syndrome has always prevailed. Part of the problem is that I try too hard to make life easy for my SS mates. She doesn't need to work unless she wants to. I've always had a housekeeper. I do the shopping, laundry and most of the cooking. I actually like doing all those things and enjoy having someone to care for but the consequent inactivity always has the same adverse effect on her health and mobility.
> 
> ...




I was thinking the other day how super-sizedness is a luxury of the young and/or healthy....which is why it turns me on..but like with any other aspect of the body it does change over time. Therefore i think Kioewen makes a strong point that maybe the desire for the person as a whole wasnt that strong to begin with if you can just shut the desire for them off.

Personally..I accept that I like Eyecandy and I leave it at that.


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## Fascinita (Oct 2, 2009)

Ernest Nagel said:


> the consequent inactivity always has the same adverse effect on her health and mobility.



Yoga, exercise, mobility. Even if a woman enjoys having the housekeeping done, she can remain active. 

And you can stop enabling adverse effects by not being so quick to "take care" of her.

There *are* alternatives to "rationalized castration," Ernest. But you know all this! What gives?

I'm at a point now--because of age and because of the compounding, cyclical effect of my size--where I'll have to work harder to remain active and mobile. And that means limiting weight gain, too, because the fatter I am, the more difficult it is to get enough exercise to maintain my weight. It's not something I'm thrilled about, but it doesn't mean I'm going to beat myself up about it or never leave the house because there's this thing that's going to make my life difficult and that may not be entirely in my control. I'll do my best, and try to enjoy life meanwhile. 

Can't you do the same? Do your level best to be helpful instead of harmful, and try to enjoy life meanwhile? This "all or nothing" thinking has nothing to do with being male or female. Snap out of it. You shouldn't want to live without giving or receiving intimate love. It's not good for anyone.


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## LillyBBBW (Oct 2, 2009)

I think that is a common issue Ernest. I live on my own, do my own grocery shopping and am pretty much independent but my super sizedome shows outwardly in my movements. Everything I do is slow, labored and deliberate. It's not someething I'm aware of as I go about my way but when I'm among family members they often feel compelled to come running over. They will take bags from my hands and carry them up. My father is 80 years old and even he will take stuff from me and before you know it the whole family will have a bag but all I have in my hand is a cup of coffee. How sad is that? You'd think I had one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel. No matter how hard I stamp my foot people can't view my circumstance as anything other than a disadvantage, handicap or shortcoming when I don't see it that way at all. In my mind it's merely another state of being or level of ability. I litterally have to step outside of my own way of thinking to understand my family at times and why they behave as they do. If they just want to get there faster and get things over with they can surely take the initiative but I *can* do it myself. Really, I can.

This isn't meant to be a lecture. I know you can't just turn caring and desire on and off. I don't see the need to stop doing either. I don't want my family to. I'm infinitely grateful when someone does come along and carry my stuff up the stairs while at the same time I am fearful of what would happen if I didn't have to lift a finger any more. Thank goodness I don't see them often. I can't possibly address your greater concerns of how to reconcile things in your own mind but laying out the logic of what the best course of action should be for the health of all involved is something that shouldn't be set aside. It may be better to just open your mind to a better balance of stepping back if only sometimes. It keeps her fit and relevant both mentally and physically when she can accomplish things on her own. In allowing guilt to overcome you are in a sense choosing the greater of evils for both of you. I know I'm just giving you more of the same of what you've already heard. I guess I'm just trying to encourage you to try. It's a shame to let yourself go to waste over things that are niether here not there that you can't do anything about. 




Ernest Nagel said:


> My overriding rationalization is that I wouldn't be good for her and that is primarily because I'm an FA/SSA. I've touched on this some time ago in a "FA Guilt" thread I think but this is slightly different and I'm wondering if any other FA's have experienced this? While I am neither a feeder nor an encourager (not that I'm condemning either) almost every LTR I've ever been in has left my partner with a significant weight gain and usually with concomitant health and mobility issues.
> 
> I have always unreservedly supported my partners weight loss efforts whenever they elected to pursue them. The yo-yo syndrome has always prevailed. Part of the problem is that I try too hard to make life easy for my SS mates. She doesn't need to work unless she wants to. I've always had a housekeeper. I do the shopping, laundry and most of the cooking. I actually like doing all those things and enjoy having someone to care for but the consequent inactivity always has the same adverse effect on her health and mobility.
> 
> ...


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## Ernest Nagel (Oct 2, 2009)

Ladies, I sincerely appreciate your input and concern. I've made my peace with this though. I was just wondering if any other FA's out there were struggling with similar issues? It's not something you want to do alone and not a lot of people understand food addiction or being an FA.

I did everything I could to keep from enabling my last ex. I gladly accommodated every diet, exercise device, pill, specialist or program she wanted. Anything you can think of short of WLS, we tried. Being passive/aggressive she used every failure and infirmity to gain my attention and sympathy. I was a sucker and couldn't say no when she would give up or stop her when she binged. Every time a BBW's death was announced on Dims my heart would go up in my throat and I couldn't sleep for days. At a certain point I think you just have to walk away and say "I won't be a party to this anymore"? 

My Mom died an alcoholic and addicted to painkillers (cancer killed her but the drinking took most of her life way before that). My Dad stood by her to the end and he has never forgiven himself for that. I can't ever know if I made the right decision to divorce Donna. I feel that staying together would have absolutely made me responsible for her health/life in a way I couldn't accept. (She lives with her parents now and hasn't lost or gained any weight.) I do know I never want to go through anything like that again. 

I also know I'm damaged goods. A combination of Asperger's and an obsession with my work makes me emotionally unavailable and physically absent much of the time. I'm not relationship material for anybody I'd want a relationship with. That's OK, really. I have a lucrative career I love, many supportive friends and a small but close family. I consider myself quite blessed. 

I think I really started this thread to get a sense of whether it's easier for some men to walk away from someone they love for her own good. At this point I'm just gonna say it hurts less when you don't dwell on it and hope we can let this thread die. :bow:


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## Jack Secret (Oct 2, 2009)

chicken legs said:


> I was thinking the other day how super-sizedness is a *luxury of the young* and/or healthy....which is why it turns me on..but like with any other aspect of the body it does change over time. Therefore i think Kioewen makes a strong point that maybe the desire for the person as a whole wasnt that strong to begin with if you can just shut the desire for them off.
> 
> Personally..I accept that I like Eyecandy and I leave it at that.



I've been thinking the exact same thing about supersizedness being a game of the young/healthy.


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## Isa (Oct 4, 2009)

Ernest Nagel said:


> I did everything I could to keep from enabling my last ex. *I gladly accommodated every diet, exercise device, pill, specialist or program she wanted. Anything you can think of short of WLS, we tried. Being passive/aggressive she used every failure and infirmity to gain my attention and sympathy. I was a sucker and couldn't say no when she would give up or stop her when she binged. *Every time a BBW's death was announced on Dims my heart would go up in my throat and I couldn't sleep for days. At a certain point I think you just have to walk away and say "I won't be a party to this anymore"?



Dare I say that in this instance, maybe some of the blame should lie with the woman in question instead of all on your shoulders?


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## AnnMarie (Oct 4, 2009)

Isa said:


> Dare I say that in this instance, maybe some of the blame should lie with the woman in question instead of all on your shoulders?



Agree. (sorry, slight tangent on Ernest's side posts)

I love and appreciate the helping hands I'd get from past partners, and I'd probably very much resent them holding back gentlemanly efforts to help out a little in an effort to "not enable me". I have a almost physical and vile reaction to anyone who claims to be doing something "in my best interest" or "for my own good" or making decisions FOR me. It pisses me off. I understand the line of thought - there's no fault in feeling it, but ultimately we don't get to make decisions for others.

However, I'm not someone who would allow someone to do every little thing for me and in turn I just stop doing completely. That's not me, never been me, and I know damn well that if history serves I'm going to be on my own again and needing to do it all alone. That's my life and the way my life works, if I don't do it, it doesn't get done - so having someone in my life who's nice enough to lend a hand is not a bad thing, it's a loving, helpful, and welcome thing. 


Ernest, I get what you're saying, and I don't wish to minimize it - I think you're right in that if you feel you've done too much or contributed to something that's made their lives "harder" in the long run - then you're ok to feel however you want about that. You meant no harm and certainly there are people who will take advantage of every opportunity, so - coming back around to what Isa said, it's about the person, and if you decide to get in another relationship I hope it will be a good match to the type of person you are, and the type of person they are.  


And regarding a private space for men - this is part of the forum description thread, so keep it in mind: 



> *Our Backroom*
> 
> There has been some expression of support for the idea that certain discussions might be ideally conducted in a private venue only accessible to FAs/FFAs. BHMs and BBWs, in such a circumstance, would only be allowed access if they identified as FAs/FFAs also. Any such private venue would only be accessible to FAs/FFAs "by request and approval." Participation in this area, should it come into existence, will require a pledge of strict confidentiality.
> 
> Again, such a forum does not presently exist, but in time could  those interested should PM the FA/FFA Forum mods with topic suggestions and their interest.


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## SocialbFly (Oct 5, 2009)

Ernest Nagel said:


> Have you ever talked yourself out of being attracted to someone? I don't mean you just convinced yourself not to take action. This isn't about pain avoidance or preempting rejection. I'm talking about recognizing someone who's truly, comprehensively attractive and for whatever reason you consciously elected to "switch it off" for her? If so, why and do you ever regret it?



ya scared all the men folk Ernest, lol....i still hear weeping...


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## ToniTails (Oct 5, 2009)

Yes... I completely relate to this--- trying to get excited over someone who seems like exactly what I want



Dr. Feelgood said:


> No, but I've tried to do the opposite -- talk myself INTO being excited about a woman who was good-looking, intelligent, articulate, warm, funny, honest, and charming -- everything I OUGHT to go for. It didn't work.


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## chicken legs (Oct 6, 2009)

Ernest Nagel said:


> Ladies, I sincerely appreciate your input and concern. I've made my peace with this though. I was just wondering if any other FA's out there were struggling with similar issues? It's not something you want to do alone and not a lot of people understand food addiction or being an FA.
> 
> I did everything I could to keep from enabling my last ex. I gladly accommodated every diet, exercise device, pill, specialist or program she wanted. Anything you can think of short of WLS, we tried. Being passive/aggressive she used every failure and infirmity to gain my attention and sympathy. I was a sucker and couldn't say no when she would give up or stop her when she binged. Every time a BBW's death was announced on Dims my heart would go up in my throat and I couldn't sleep for days. At a certain point I think you just have to walk away and say "I won't be a party to this anymore"?
> 
> ...



***BIG HUG***

Your original post didnt even hint to the depth of what you were getting at. Trying to avoid the unhealthy relationship patterns set by our parents is not for the faint of heart.:bow:


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## lovelocs (Oct 8, 2009)

I don't think it's fair to blame one's self totally for another person's state of being, even if you may contribute to it. At what point is a BBW responsible for herself? Her own health and her own status as an adult? I don't think anyone's pampering can truly make another person decrepit, or disabled, unless there is an unhealthy emotion behind it, one which the BBW shares, and profits from. It's a sad thing to witness.

I have a friend who is actually in a similar situation. She is actually quite trim and thin, and does not support herself. She is constantly "sick" and does not work or keep house. I can't lie, sometimes I envy her arrangement... So nice to not have to do anything... Until I realize that the trade-off is to allow her self to feel, and be, unable to take care of herself. She and her SO have a jailer and inmate feel to their relationship, he's possessive and quietly domineering. As a BBW who has been on her own, in some way or another, since her early teens, it scares the hell out of me. But she and this man found each other, and stay together, because they fulfill needs in one another. They are both adults, and we are all more aware of ourselves and our motives than we like to admit.


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