# Ever wondered why you are an FA? And does it really matter?



## beginner FA (Aug 23, 2008)

I have never been able to quite put my finger on why im an FA and im starting to think its one of those things u can't put ur finger on...

Any agreements or, more interestingly, disagreements with that assertion?

Secondly, should us FAs be concentrate more on being an FA (meaning bbws lol) than finding reasons for it?


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## The Fez (Aug 23, 2008)

It's genetic, I think. Just like you might have a preference for blonde's or red-head's.

Also, you shouldn't have to find reasons to justify the kind of women you like, just be happy with it; works for me!


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## beginner FA (Aug 23, 2008)

Thanks for being the first to contribute!

genetics eh, i never thought of that!

Also, i see your a british FA, same here!


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## T_Devil (Aug 23, 2008)

I never really thought about it. Why bother? I know what I like and I love to like it. I don't really need a reason to know why I love being a Fat Girl Admirer, but I know that i am, and that's all I need.


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## JoeFA (Aug 23, 2008)

beginner FA said:


> I have never been able to quite put my finger on why im an FA and im starting to think its one of those things u can't put ur finger on...
> 
> Any agreements or, more interestingly, disagreements with that assertion?
> 
> Secondly, should us FAs be concentrate more on being an FA (meaning bbws lol) than finding reasons for it?



Fat women are beautiful, i'd happily put my finger on it.

And yeah i guess we should, as the other guys said it's genetic, and i'm sure the girls here find it tiresome asking that sam question, which most people can only guess the answer to.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Aug 23, 2008)

Hm, why do I like fat girls .. why is that .. you know, I had this conversation earlier today. This is how it went.

Friend: Hey, Justin, what is with you and those fat chicks? 

... 

Me: I eat what I like, motherfucker!


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## JoeFA (Aug 23, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> Hm, why do I like fat girls .. why is that .. you know, I had this conversation earlier today. This is how it went.
> 
> Friend: Hey, Justin, what is with you and those fat chicks?
> 
> ...



Good call...


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## mediaboy (Aug 24, 2008)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> Hm, why do I like fat girls .. why is that .. you know, I had this conversation earlier today. This is how it went.
> 
> Friend: Hey, Justin, what is with you and those fat chicks?
> 
> ...




I laughed so hard I aspirated.

Rep'd


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## otomotopia (Aug 24, 2008)

IMHO: Yes, i think it is genetics. My Grandpa married an obese lady, and i think his Luvv gene passed on to me ^^.


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## Skaster (Aug 24, 2008)

Hard to say, since there doesn't seem to be any serious research in this field. I HOPE though it's not genetic. In other words: I hope it is an acquired syndrome, thus reversible. Why? I've been an FA all my life and had thought of my fat admiration as a deep rooted trait of my personality, even something that makes me special. And I wouldn't want to question it. But also I've been single, lonesome and sex-starved all my life - due to the almost complete absence of BBW in my socio-cultural shere and age-range. (The situation looks "better" with very young women and immigrants from south/southeast European countries.)

So, recently I've come to view my being an FA as a severe handicap. Something that makes me if not an outcast then at least a weird guy. I'm just utterly frustrated and sick and tired of having a BBW-date only once every other year - only to find out that the woman plans on a major weight loss. 

I don't mean to rock the boat and wouldn't want to spoil it for anyone else. If you're happy with being an FA that's great and I sincerely wish you the happiness will last. But for me, I'm just being pissed off and I wonder if there is a drug / treatment / therapy / operation / anything that relieves me of what I've come to think as an impediment towards something like an acceptable social- and love-life. That's why I hope very much, it's not genetic.


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## superodalisque (Aug 24, 2008)

i'm not an FA but personally i think its better to just concentrate on being yourself, liking yourself as you are and find ways to stop feeling that you have to explain yourself. i know the world does not make that easy.


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## swamptoad (Aug 24, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> i'm not an FA but personally i think its better to just concentrate on being yourself, liking yourself as you are and find ways to stop feeling that you have to explain yourself. i know the world does not make that easy.



Exactly.

I think people should feel secure and happy by being themself. There's much in this world that matters. I can't really put my finger on my why I am an FA either. But I like what I like. And I have liked big girls ever since the kindergarten days. And I continued liking them as I grew older. 

Though, throughout, I have been drawn to many things about women. Not just their size. So, I haven't been like a full-fledged FA through-and-through. But I knew somehow _that_ was something that I liked and couldn't shrug. AND I've always felt that BIG or SKINNY is beautiful.


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## ravfa (Aug 25, 2008)

I think at some point most people with an alternative or minority preference have wondered, "Why?" Just because other people will force the question on you. I think everyone's sexuality comes from a combination of factors: basic biology/species evolution; individual genetics/heredity; the social/cultural enviornment we're born into; and our own personal background/upbringing. It's the way these various factors interact in a unique way that shapes us, I think. And the "X" factor is US - our singular personality/mind/soul & the way it processes those influences.

I do think that when it comes to sexuality, preference, and arousal, we don't have much of a conscious choice. I don't "choose" to be turned-on by BBW's. It's something that either happens or doesn't.

For myself, yes I have wondered. But, ulitimately, I don't really care "why." Yes it makes me different. But I wouldn't want to change even if I could. I'm happy loving fat women. 

(And, woot, my 100th post. Yeah, BFD. Pretty paltry compared to the thousands of posts other people have made. And like anybody will give a rat's patootie, or I'll get any more of a response, or rep, than usual.)


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## beginner FA (Aug 25, 2008)

Very convincing response RavFA, someones been doin their homework! LOL


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## Victim (Aug 25, 2008)

My mother was short and somewhat fat, and I'm 285 myself, so I think that might have a lot to do with it. By the time I was old enough to start appreciating women at all, I was looking at the big ones...

Like I've said before, Nature likes to keep her options open. If there is no variation from what is considered normal then nothing extraordinary is ever going to happen.


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## davoid23 (Aug 25, 2008)

I have always wondered why. It's tricky when you work with as many "lads" as I have. Them staring at all the skinny / busty girls waltzing past and me hoping for a gorgeous BBW. 

Ever since I can remember, my first crush was on the biggest girl in school and she went to the same school through primary (grade school) and secondary (high school) and I was lucky enough to have her for a total of 2 months in those 6 years. What fun I had though! :smitten:

I have always gone for the biggest girl around. Although I had one moment with my best friend who was all-but anorexic but that was just a one off luckily! As far as I'm concerned the bigger the better and now I'm a fully grown adult "the bigger" is limitless with all kinds of SSBBW, pictures, stories and TV/Film I think FAs are very well catered for these days! 

None of my friends or workmates are FAs and it is tricky because they just wouldn't understand why I like it. The only people who know are my 2 closest friends and, now, my special lady. 

Like I said however, it can be very tricky not to let slip a comment or to look at a big girl for too long and if you're caught then that's it! It's a minefield out there...


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## T_Devil (Aug 25, 2008)

davoid23 said:


> Like I said however, it can be very tricky not to let slip a comment or to look at a big girl for too long and if you're caught then that's it! It's a minefield out there...



Oh, I see how it is. *Run away!*

I don't wonder and the reason for that is I don't need to. I don't have to search my soul. I already know the answer and that answer is something I can't put into words. There isn't a reason. There is only the reality that I am attracted to fat girls and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it. Not even me. I stopped running from it when i realized that this is just a part of me as everything else that makes me ME.

I don't care what other people think because other people are not me. Other people do not dictate to me how I ought to live my life, who I talk to, what I wear, WHO I FALL IN LOVE WITH. 

If I stand alone amongst a room full of laughing people, then I leave the room, for there is nobody in there worthy of me. Yes, I think highly of myself. I should, I am an honorable man. This is what I know.

So if you're still asking yourself WHY..... Why you are attracted to big women. You need to let go of the why because no matter what the answer is, nothing will change it. Accept it, or lie to yourself.

If you choose to live in a lie, Keep other people out of it. Go covort with the people you want to impress. The people you think are your friends. The people that will give you all the bricks you need to help build your wall between yourself and the truth.

Just never break the heart of anyone I care about. Us TRUE FA's..... we're a defensive lot and we detest fakers. Get with the program or get the fuck gone.


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## Chimpi (Aug 25, 2008)

T_Devil said:


> Us TRUE FA's..... we're a defensive lot and we detest fakers. Get with the program or get the fuck gone.



Either I'm not a "TRUE FA" or that statement is not so generic; I'm also fairly sure that others here agree with me on this. Everything is not always black and white. There's a lot of middle ground, and many people roam around in that middle ground all the time; there's no shame in that. Many "Fat Admirers" know that it takes time for some people to accept themselves and what they find attractive. It is part of the mysterious adventure that comes with having a differing opinion, trait or look. Where I would prefer that other "Fat Admirers" think like you and I do, I don't wish them to "get the fuck gone." They will choose their own path.

I agree with ravfa. (Reputation coming your way - not because of your 100 post count, but because of what was said within your 100th post) I do not think it is simply genetics or simply a choice. I think there are so many things that come into play for determining how a person acts and feels throughout there life. Also, I think that if you had two of the same people in nature living in the same place for the same amount of time during the same time frame, you'll still receive different results. Sort of a 'fate' based on actions, decisions and surroundings throughout your lifetime.
I also have a hard time feeling that attraction is something you can turn on and off or change completely in terms of what is sexually arousing to you. I hope you find some major solace, Skaster, or that you figure out a way to live in harmony with your sexual being. (That sounds pretty weird, but it's true) Personally, I do not think it's as easy as no longer being attracted to fat women. If it were, I think many, _many_ "Fat Admirers" would have made the switch years ago...

*EDIT:* Yes, being a man that loves fat women matters to me, only in that I love fat women. Otherwise it really doesn't matter. The same goes for men and women that are attracted to thinner or 'in the middle' body types.


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## Fatgirlfan (Aug 25, 2008)

I've been asked this question only once--by a fat girl. We were getting to know each other, she asked me : "Why do you like big girls?"
At first, I did not have an answer, then I thought and said :
"I like the way big girls look, I like the shape of a big girl, I like how she feels in my arms." "I like girls who have round bodies"

She was satisfied with my answer- she is the only person who ever asked.
Maybe she wanted to make sure I was not pretending to like fat girls.

I don't think it matters, I think it is part culture and part genetic.
or nature/nurture. I would not change it, it has a-lot to do with who I am.


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## T_Devil (Aug 25, 2008)

Chimpi said:


> Either I'm not a "TRUE FA" or that statement is not so generic; I'm also fairly sure that others here agree with me on this. Everything is not always black and white. There's a lot of middle ground, and many people roam around in that middle ground all the time; there's no shame in that. Many "Fat Admirers" know that it takes time for some people to accept themselves and what they find attractive. It is part of the mysterious adventure that comes with having a differing opinion, trait or look. Where I would prefer that other "Fat Admirers" think like you and I do, I don't wish them to "get the fuck gone." They will choose their own path.
> 
> I agree with ravfa. (Reputation coming your way - not because of your 100 post count, but because of what was said within your 100th post) I do not think it is simply genetics or simply a choice. I think there are so many things that come into play for determining how a person acts and feels throughout there life. Also, I think that if you had two of the same people in nature living in the same place for the same amount of time during the same time frame, you'll still receive different results. Sort of a 'fate' based on actions, decisions and surroundings throughout your lifetime.
> I also have a hard time feeling that attraction is something you can turn on and off or change completely in terms of what is sexually arousing to you. I hope you find some major solace, Skaster, or that you figure out a way to live in harmony with your sexual being. (That sounds pretty weird, but it's true) Personally, I do not think it's as easy as no longer being attracted to fat women. If it were, I think many, _many_ "Fat Admirers" would have made the switch years ago...
> ...


You know what then? shit or get off the pot. 

EVERY FA should have themselves figured out before they decide to go for women. I say this because I've seen girls get hurt by guys who didn't know what the fuck they wanted. they didn't know, couldn't figure it out, walked on out the door and the girl is left there wondering what the fuck she did wrong.

Does that sound fair to you?

I have ZERO Sympathy for FA's trying to find themselves. I had a hard time, so I see it as a right of fucking passage. why should anyone else have an easier time than I did? I value my lessons more. I'll walk that mile. I'll walk it TWICE to prove a point. While these indecisive weaklings are still trying to figure out what their options, obligations and their sense of friendship is, there are girls getting fucked over buy guys who either have no clue as to what they are yet looking for, or they just don't care.

I'm sick of seeing the point of view of people just starting to accept FA. Sick of it. I'm on the side of the people that are the victims of this exploration. You either accept it and commit to it or you go and jack off and think about it some more.

Get your priorities together before you want to enter an ADULT RELATIONSHIP. Training wheels are off. If they fuck it up now, somone's going to get hurt. I just rather it's not the girl left crying and confused because some asshole can't get his fuckin' shit together.


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## Chimpi (Aug 25, 2008)

T_Devil said:


> You know what then? shit or get off the pot.
> 
> EVERY FA should have themselves figured out before they decide to go for women. I say this because I've seen girls get hurt by guys who didn't know what the fuck they wanted. they didn't know, couldn't figure it out, walked on out the door and the girl is left there wondering what the fuck she did wrong.
> 
> ...



The way I see it, that's kind of like saying you shouldn't enter a relationship unless you're going to marry the person. Discovering yourself is a long journey and takes a bit of soul searching and general searching - which includes dating different people and figuring out who you are and what you like. As I said, I don't think it's nearly as black and white. You can date a fat female that you are attracted to and not be sure of who you are. Yes, I, too, think it is wrong to leave the woman wondering what happened and all that, but women do it to men as well. Every type of human being does that, not just men and women that love fat people. I think it's more of a relationship adventure than it is exclusive to "Fat Admirers."

Again, I feel that it is wrong to leave the woman wondering what happened. I feel that it is wrong to not want to take her out into public because you're ashamed of her size or afraid of what your friends might say. I feel it's immoral and 'weak' to live a sheltered life, afraid of being who you are. But that's life. It happens every day, and it happens to many/most people for some period of time, not just those exclusively attracted to fat people.
There are assholes for every walk of life. It happens. Hopefully they'll eventually learn. Hopefully they will be able to learn without hurting others; but it happens. The beauty of being hurt and left wondering is that you learn in some fashion or another. There's always a learning curve.

You and I shall agree to disagree, I suppose. I disagree with "Fat Admirers" treating their girlfriends/boyfriends like a dirty, hidden secret, but I agree with "Fat Admirers" trying to find themselves. It's a part of life, usually attached with the teenage and young adult years.

*Shrugs* I do understand your point of view, though. There are days when I'm sick of a lot of that as well.


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## T_Devil (Aug 25, 2008)

Chimpi said:


> The way I see it, that's kind of like saying you shouldn't enter a relationship unless you're going to marry the person. Discovering yourself is a long journey and takes a bit of soul searching and general searching - which includes dating different people and figuring out who you are and what you like. As I said, I don't think it's nearly as black and white. You can date a fat female that you are attracted to and not be sure of who you are. Yes, I, too, think it is wrong to leave the woman wondering what happened and all that, but women do it to men as well. Every type of human being does that, not just men and women that love fat people. I think it's more of a relationship adventure than it is exclusive to "Fat Admirers."
> 
> Again, I feel that it is wrong to leave the woman wondering what happened. I feel that it is wrong to not want to take her out into public because you're ashamed of her size or afraid of what your friends might say. I feel it's immoral and 'weak' to live a sheltered life, afraid of being who you are. But that's life. It happens every day, and it happens to many/most people for some period of time, not just those exclusively attracted to fat people.
> There are assholes for every walk of life. It happens. Hopefully they'll eventually learn. Hopefully they will be able to learn without hurting others; but it happens. The beauty of being hurt and left wondering is that you learn in some fashion or another. There's always a learning curve.
> ...


So is it acceptable?
Is it ok for someone who just "woke up" to the fact that they are attracted to fat girls to run right out and hook up with the first fat girl that will talk to him. Get all involved and THEN realize that there is a whole hive of problems he needs to sort through?

I know relationships break up. It's life. Lord knows I've had enough of them. But each time a relationship dissolved, there were no questions like "Was it something I did?" No, it was just two different people on two different paths in life, and that was that. Yeah it was sad, but in the end we both grew from it. People who get no closure, GET NO CLOSURE and that is a fucked up kind of pain that sticks around for while.... like YEARS.

I just don't think it's fair for these new guys to bust out and say I have a fat girlfriend and she's so hawt ....... just as long as my friends and family don't know! Man, fuck that! I think the very act of accepting it as a part of life is the very same thing fucking it up for everybody.

Maybe we need to be more demanding. Maybe ladies ought to be more suspicious of FA's and tell them to walk that mile before they can even get their foot in the door. Maybe us old FA's need to tell these new guys "Look, it's not easy and don't expect it to be. You want it, you gotta earn it because too many people done fucked it up before you even got here. Maybe the new guys need to understand that this is not going to be easy and that there are going to be sacrafices to be made.

What part of that isn't true?

If we're going to be honest, fuck it, let's be honest. Put all our cards on the table and let it ride. I say we change our way of how things are done. I say we change how OUR culture accepts new FA's. Like I said, Walk that mile or walk on home. Nobody has the time or patience to wait for some kid to pull his head out of his ass. I'm the guy that will tell a new kid 
"Follow your heart, be true to your convictions, but don't fuck around. If you're gonna commit to being an FA, commit to it, because life is too fucking short for this opportunity to accept your own personal truth on who you are to be dragged on out by social insecurity. Overcome it. Stand alone if you must. Be your own man. Be THE man. Be that guy you have always wanted to be, but do it now because once the opportunity is gone, who know's how bad you will have done fucked it up by doing nothing."

THAT is the way life is. We make our decesions. Sometimes we make decesions that once they're made, they cannot be unmade. Some mistakes are more painful than others. And some mistakes affect other people.... sometimes the fallout of those mistakes lasts forever.

When do we say "enough is enough"? When do we begin to take responsibility? We are our own society. You know this, I know this, everybody reading these words knows this. As a society, we MUST have some kind of standard here or shit is always going to be fucked up. Shit is always going to be confused. People are always going to be hurt for the simple reason that they didn't know what they were doing.

When you first learned to drive, did they just toss you the keys and tell you to drive? no. You had to learn. Our culture is delicate one. We support one and other and to ensure that it stays strong, I propose that Knowledge be passed on from the guys who have been around to the guys first starting out. No more of this sleepwaking around bullshit. 

the guys who have come up in this place looking for knowledge have gotten it. Not always receptive, some a bit skeptical. Come on though, think about it. Why would some of these ladies be suspicious? I don't blame them one bit. And these new guys have to learn real fast that their actions have consequences and sometimes, one fuck up is all it takes.


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## olwen (Aug 25, 2008)

Chimpi said:


> The way I see it, that's kind of like saying you shouldn't enter a relationship unless you're going to marry the person. Discovering yourself is a long journey and takes a bit of soul searching and general searching - which includes dating different people and figuring out who you are and what you like. As I said, I don't think it's nearly as black and white. You can date a fat female that you are attracted to and not be sure of who you are. Yes, I, too, think it is wrong to leave the woman wondering what happened and all that, but women do it to men as well. Every type of human being does that, not just men and women that love fat people. I think it's more of a relationship adventure than it is exclusive to "Fat Admirers."
> 
> Again, I feel that it is wrong to leave the woman wondering what happened. I feel that it is wrong to not want to take her out into public because you're ashamed of her size or afraid of what your friends might say. I feel it's immoral and 'weak' to live a sheltered life, afraid of being who you are. But that's life. It happens every day, and it happens to many/most people for some period of time, not just those exclusively attracted to fat people.
> There are assholes for every walk of life. It happens. Hopefully they'll eventually learn. Hopefully they will be able to learn without hurting others; but it happens. The beauty of being hurt and left wondering is that you learn in some fashion or another. There's always a learning curve.
> ...



Chimpi I wish I was a benevolent and patient as you and I've been told I am quite patient so that's saying a lot coming from me, but I just know I am quite sick of "men" who need to find themselves as far as fat admiration is concerned. 

Participating in this site and reading thru all the threads about fat admiration from the male's perspective has taught me a lot about how hard it seems to be for so many. I see that this is the case, but I guess I don't understand why this is so hard for so many. Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why should I or any other fat woman accept that or put up with it? Asking us to understand is like asking us to admit that there is something wrong with our size when there damn well isn't. It's asking me to be complicit in abuse and destructive behavior that is directed towards me. It's asking me to understand and accept that they are ashamed of me and their attraction to me. What the fuck is that shit? I got enough to deal with my own problems and abuses from like, everyone else and then here come these whiny closeted FAs asking for sympathy for being too scared to piss on the pot and I'm supposed to act like this is a real problem? FUCK THAT! 

Chimpi, I know you understand where I'm coming from here and I'm not attacking you at all....you know, I've had a bad week and I'm in no mood to suffer fools today so I'm just expressing my frustration here as it seems to relate somehow to what's been going on in my life right now and I'm just pissed at him and even more pissed at myself for hoping I could enlighten him somehow. But you know what - that isn't my job. I deserve a whole man, not a half of one and I'm getting to be too old to deal with this "FA" bullshit anymore. I'd rather be alone. I'm D-O-N-E. Done.


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## Happenstance (Aug 25, 2008)

T_Devil said:


> why should anyone else have an easier time than I did?



Would you say this to your children?

To answer the original question psychologically, I think the seed was planted for me when I went to the doctor at twelve months old and was told I was too thin. ('If that doctor could only see you now!' my mother has since said to me, in good humour.) After that doctor visit, I was encouraged to eat more, and the result was a preference for people who look well-fed, and wishing to look so myself.


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## Carl1h (Aug 26, 2008)

olwen said:


> I've had a bad week and I'm in no mood to suffer fools today so I'm just expressing my frustration here as it seems to relate somehow to what's been going on in my life right now and I'm just pissed at him and even more pissed at myself for hoping I could enlighten him somehow. But you know what - that isn't my job. I deserve a whole man, not a half of one and I'm getting to be too old to deal with this "FA" bullshit anymore. I'd rather be alone. I'm D-O-N-E. Done.



Let me second your sentiments here Olwen. Let me also add that this doesn't just cut both ways on the FA and fat equation, but it cuts every which way for everyone.

None of us want to be jerked around while somebody tries to figure themselves out. I can't think of any clearer way to put it than to quote my father, "Quit jelly-dicking around!"


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## Forgotten_Futures (Aug 26, 2008)

Back when I first noticed my preference for the fuller figured woman (right around my 16th birthday) I did some researching and found out that there is actually an instinctive drive to mate (in this day and age, wed) with a woman somewhere between "healthy" and "plump", as in the WAY old days, women with some excess fat could better survive periods of little or no food, particularly whilst carrying a child, than those who were of less hearty stock.

While this does not explain the genuine interest the majority of FAs on this site have for women well beyond plump, it does lay ground for the general concept of preferring a meaty partner.


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## T_Devil (Aug 26, 2008)

Happenstance said:


> Would you say this to your children?


Yes, I would.

And if they were indeed of my lineage, I would expect nothing less of them than to walk that mile for the girl he loves (or she). Grim determination runs in my family.


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## Shosh (Aug 26, 2008)

T_Devil said:


> Yes, I would.
> 
> And if they were indeed of my lineage, I would expect nothing less of them than to walk that mile for the girl he loves (or she). Grim determination runs in my family.



Tell ya what mate, I wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of the devil.:bow:


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## davoid23 (Aug 26, 2008)

T_Devil said:


> Oh, I see how it is. *Run away!*
> Us TRUE FA's..... we're a defensive lot and we detest fakers. Get with the program or get the fuck gone.



I'm not saying that I hide it or what ever, but I don't really see that it is anyone else's business, you know? That's why I only told the people who I spent most time with, that way I could feel comfortable being me around the people whose opinions I do care about, and not worry about the opinions that don't matter to me (other colleagues, strangers or friends of friends). 

I'm certainly not suggesting that every FA should hide it or deny it, but those who don't feel comfortable for whatever reason (after all, we can't control our feelings on some things) should be able to take their time and should think about their decisions. 

People who have fetishes (*I know that being an FA isn't classed as having a fetish for fat*) of giantesses or feet or hair e.t.c have the same choices as FAs, I think there are roughly 5 main categories:

1 - Embrace it fully. Let the whole world know. Wear a shirt with "Fat chicks wanted!" on it.

2 - Embrace it personally. Tell your friends and colleagues and enjoy your FAness whenever and wherever.

3 - Embrace it privately - Tell only your closest friend/s. Sneak a peek or use 
the 'net.

4 - Do not embrace it. Tell nobody except your boy/girlfriend.

5 - Do not embrace it. Tell nobody. Lie to yourself and hope it's just a phase.

I don't want to say "THESE ARE THE ONLY OPTIONS", I'm not saying that at all, but in my experience from various forums / sites and other FAs, those 5 seem to cover it. 

My point is, people have a choice. Just because they don't embrace it as much as you doesn't give you the right to tell them to


T_Devil said:


> get the fuck gone.


You wouldn't tell an outwardly camp, gay person to tone it down or "get the fuck gone", so why tell an FA to


T_Devil said:


> Get with the program or get the fuck gone.


.

It's just rude. :shocked:


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## olwen (Aug 26, 2008)

davoid23 said:


> I'm not saying that I hide it or what ever, but I don't really see that it is anyone else's business, you know? That's why I only told the people who I spent most time with, that way I could feel comfortable being me around the people whose opinions I do care about, and not worry about the opinions that don't matter to me (other colleagues, strangers or friends of friends).
> 
> I'm certainly not suggesting that every FA should hide it or deny it, but those who don't feel comfortable for whatever reason (after all, we can't control our feelings on some things) should be able to take their time and should think about their decisions.
> 
> ...



Tell the ones who don't embrace it openly not to dump their hangups on the people they're attracted to or expect them to accept such a limited amount of respect, after all it's just rude.


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## davoid23 (Aug 26, 2008)

olwen said:


> Tell the ones who don't embrace it openly not to dump their hangups on the people they're attracted to or expect them to accept such a limited amount of respect, after all it's just rude.



Sorry olwen, do you mean that I've burdened somebody or are you agreeing with me? (sorry to sound a little dim... lol) 

I mean, in my first job out of school I hid who I was, but now I'm more accepting of it and of myself, I don't feel the need to and I certainly hope that I've never given limited respect to or burdened my special lady...


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## T_Devil (Aug 26, 2008)

davoid23 said:


> I'm not saying that I hide it or what ever, but I don't really see that it is anyone else's business, you know? That's why I only told the people who I spent most time with, that way I could feel comfortable being me around the people whose opinions I do care about, and not worry about the opinions that don't matter to me (other colleagues, strangers or friends of friends).
> 
> I'm certainly not suggesting that every FA should hide it or deny it, but those who don't feel comfortable for whatever reason (after all, we can't control our feelings on some things) should be able to take their time and should think about their decisions.
> 
> ...


Who supports these "levels" of "FAness"?

I don't. You either are and you are fine with it, or you are not. No, I'm not excepting levels. It's unsatisfactory and it's unfair to the girls who have to put up with this pansy-ass bullshit

I'm not expecting everybody to be as vocal about it as me, and lets face it, I'll shout it from the rooftops. I guess everybody can't be as proud as me even though they are but they just choose to not show it (way to support a cause guys!). Fine. But have your shit together. Have your own process of belief figured out BEFORE you go out and fuck up some nice girls life with your "_I'm not ready for everybody to know_" attitude because the world does not revolve around you.

These women don't deserve "levels".... they deserve better. They deserve a man who knows what he likes, and isn't afraid of what anyone has to say about it.

So go and be at "level 3." I don't care. Do whatever it is that makes you feel like you belong. But when it comes right down to it and someone were to say to you "So what, You into these fat-asses or what?" What are you gonna say. Gonna shrivel away and die because they're asking you in front of people You're not comfortable with? Or are you gonna take the express trip to level 1 and not give a fuck what ANYONE thinks.

That's why I make it a yes or no question. Too much of all that other bullshit complicates things. Isn't life complicated enough? Does THIS really need to be one more hassle, one more worry, one more thing to say "_gee... I dunno...._" That's why I tell people to get with the fuckin' program.... nobody likes an asshole who can't make up his mind. Uncomplicate your life and fucking live it instead of telling yourself "These people are ok to let know, and so are these people, but those people can't know because they won't like me anymore.

Fuck 'em.

And when I tell these weaklings to get the fuck gone.... I mean it. Why the hell should ANYONE have to put up with some guy who's got hang ups on who knows what about the type of girls he likes. What the fuck is that all about? Ask a fat girl and she will tell you: Either you like her, or you do not like her. You can't like her when you're around certain people and not like her when you're around other people. 

No no, get the fuck gone with that behavior.

Sorry if I seem *RUDE* to you, but I find your attitude to be a little bit offensive myself.


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## davoid23 (Aug 26, 2008)

T_Devil said:


> Sorry if I seem *RUDE* to you, but I find your attitude to be a little bit offensive myself.



Sorry, I don't want to appear rude or offensive, I know we are all entitled to our opinions. I meant my post in a positive way. 

Not everyone will agree with the "levels" I have listed and that's fine by me, I know that topics like this cannot be summed up easily and lots of people have lots of points to be made and heard and sometimes debated. 

I deffinately agree with where you said


T_Devil said:


> These people are ok to let know, and so are these people, but those people can't know because they won't like me anymore. Fuck 'em.


but it took me about 2 years of knowing and learning to get to the stage where I could think that and be sure of it. Others might take longer and others may take less time but that depends on the individual.

I do respect your views and hopefully you respect mine, but I personally don't agree that closet FAs are a problem, it is those few who need the experienced, proud, "level 1" guys like yourself to look to for advice and I think they should be listened to and understood before being told they are not "supporting the cause". Some people just need a little time or a specific experience or person to show them what to do, otherwise they will be sat on the fence for a long, long time. :bounce:

Again, sorry if I offended you or anyone else here with my post. It's just my opinion, I'm not trying to influence anyone or to say anyone else is wrong. 

I'm off to bed now as it's almost 3am where I am, so I'm not ignoring any reply, I'm just asleep... lol. Nite all.


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## olwen (Aug 26, 2008)

davoid23 said:


> Sorry olwen, do you mean that I've burdened somebody or are you agreeing with me? (sorry to sound a little dim... lol)
> 
> I mean, in my first job out of school I hid who I was, but now I'm more accepting of it and of myself, I don't feel the need to and I certainly hope that I've never given limited respect to or burdened my special lady...



davoid, I'm saying you've burdened your lady. All the questioning and tiptoeing around other people when you are with her/in regards to her is a burden on her and an unnecessary one at that.

And unfortunately you are right, somehow topics like these can't be easily summed up and therein lies the problem. I don't see myself or any other fat person as a problem but you did. Closeted FAs do. An FA shouldn't need experience to show respect to the fat people they want to be with. Either you show it or you don't. If the question is "how do I show respect as an FA?" Then one doesn't understand what respect is or how to not be selfish. It's as simple as that.


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## Tragdor (Aug 26, 2008)

I don't think it matters what causes FAism. I am pretty skeptical of the genetic theory, but it could be true for all I know.


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## Ichida (Aug 26, 2008)

I'm an FFA...

It may have to do with genetics or your environment. I think if you think in terms of being hardwired when we were more instinctual the fat men/women were successful and the best providers. The skinny preference is new - it's only been as prevalent and inbred in culture since food became regularly overabundant.


It could also have to do with your subconsious thoughts the first time you masterbated - I remember the first time i subconsciously realized i was attracted to bigger people was when I was like five...It took until I was thirteen to actually bring that thought to the forefront full blown! Whatever triggered that first response was reinforced by the responses my body gave as the years progressed...so in myself I think it was a combination of being hardwired, environment, and conditioning stronger than socialization.


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## thatgirl08 (Aug 26, 2008)

I think it's just a preference, no real "reason" for it. It just is.



T_Devil said:


> You know what then? shit or get off the pot.
> 
> EVERY FA should have themselves figured out before they decide to go for women. I say this because I've seen girls get hurt by guys who didn't know what the fuck they wanted. they didn't know, couldn't figure it out, walked on out the door and the girl is left there wondering what the fuck she did wrong.
> 
> ...



Honestly, I think you're being way too hard on FA's. I think everyone goes through phases where they aren't quite sure who they are and I think it's unfair to expect an FA to not go through that. I realize what you're saying about life not always being easy when you're a fat girl, that's like the story of my life, but that doesn't mean I can't have a little sympathy for FA's. I guess I just have been in other situations where I wish people would be a little more sympathetic towards me. I'm not saying that FA's should jeopardize a girl's happiness or well-being or whatver in order to figure out their preferences but I honestly don't think they deserve to be chastised for being confused, unsure, nervous, whatever. I'm young and trying to figure out a lot of things in my life and about myself so I have sympathy for guys who are trying to do the same, sexual preferences included. 

Also, if you think this is an issue that solely exists in the FA/BBW world, you're in for a shocker. There's a lot of guys out there who aren't sure what they want in life, in a girl, in a relationship, etc. and end up fucking girls over. And there's plently of girls who do the same to guys. Honestly, it's not that FA's need to have themselves completely figured out before they enter a relationship..it's that everyone needs to realize that we're *all* in the constant process of changing and figuring ourselves out yet realizing that you can't step on everyone elses toes while doing so.


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## T_Devil (Aug 26, 2008)

davoid23 said:


> I do respect your views and hopefully you respect mine, but I personally don't agree that closet FAs are a problem, it is those few who need the experienced, proud, "level 1" guys like yourself to look to for advice and I think they should be listened to and understood before being told they are not "supporting the cause". Some people just need a little time or a specific experience or person to show them what to do, otherwise they will be sat on the fence for a long, long time. :bounce:



Closeted FA's ARE the problem though. It is an arrogant thing to say to a fat girl "You're ok.... _most of the time._"

You and I BOTH know that's bullshit and selfish. The only advice I can give you at this point as "a proud FA" is abandon this whole closet mentality. Why hold onto it? What are you afraid of? If you can't give ALL of yourself to someone ALL of the time, then what the hell are you doing in an adult relationship?

Go hang with your homies. You are not yet ready for women. 

If you think you're enough of a man to take on the responsibilities of having an adult relationship with a fat female, then you better be ready to come out of the damn closet or otherwise you are not going to be respected by anybody. I'm telling you this because it's the truth.

Nobody likes greedy motherfuckers. And if you ARE an FA.... You're going to have to accept it. If you accept it, then treat your woman with some god damn respect! Jesus Christ, why can't you see what I'm telling you?

This has nothing to do with being an FA or not.... it has to do with being DECENT human being. If you can't even do that... abandon your relationship before you REALLY fuck her up.

To me, Closet Cases are the lowest of the low. All they care about is themselves. Greedy, selfish pricks. They're scum and if you can't rise above that then I don't know what else to tell you except put "closet case FA" in your sig line while you post here at Dims so at the very least everyone _here _can see it for themselves. You want to be honest? Start there.


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## olwen (Aug 26, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> I think it's just a preference, no real "reason" for it. It just is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're a lot nicer than me. I'm done with sympathy. I'm fresh out. We will not be ordering anymore of that here, go buy it somewhere else. So just tell these guys to stay the hell away from my toes!


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## fffff (Aug 26, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> Also, if you think this is an issue that solely exists in the FA/BBW world, you're in for a shocker. There's a lot of guys out there who aren't sure what they want in life, in a girl, in a relationship, etc. and end up fucking girls over. And there's plently of girls who do the same to guys. Honestly, it's not that FA's need to have themselves completely figured out before they enter a relationship..it's that everyone needs to realize that we're *all* in the constant process of changing and figuring ourselves out yet realizing that you can't step on everyone elses toes while doing so.



This is so true. 
I don't anyone my age of any size, shape, gender, race, or orientation, who hasn't gone through these problems. Everyone has relationship pitfalls. It takes a long time to figure out what you're looking for, no matter what you look like. 
I've been left a few times wondering what happened, and I think I've left a few people in the same boat. It's just a fact of life. 

Also why I've stopped dating.


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## T_Devil (Aug 27, 2008)

olwen said:


> You're a lot nicer than me. I'm done with sympathy. I'm fresh out. We will not be ordering anymore of that here, go buy it somewhere else. So just tell these guys to stay the hell away from my toes!



Exactly. I don't show mercy on them because none was shown on to me. You wanna be an FA? Then the shit I'm saying here is fucking child's play compared to what some FA's (myself included) have been through *for* their women (because of love). Comparing these closet cases to True FA's is like comparing a paper airplane to an F-15.

True FA's are hardcore devoted. Not because it's a cause, but because it's love. So if people see me being rough with the "freshmen", Believe you me, it's for their benefit because it get's tougher from here on in. The really funny thing is though, the tougher it gets, the less you seem to mind because it's all worth while.

Seeing my wife smile and hearing her laugh is worth my lifetime of misery before I met her. I only want everybody to be as happy as I am. But that happiness, you gotta pay in advance for it.


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## thatgirl08 (Aug 27, 2008)

T_Devil said:


> Exactly. I don't show mercy on them because none was shown on to me. You wanna be an FA? Then the shit I'm saying here is fucking child's play compared to what some FA's (myself included) have been through *for* their women (because of love). Comparing these closet cases to True FA's is like comparing a paper airplane to an F-15.
> 
> True FA's are hardcore devoted. Not because it's a cause, but because it's love. So if people see me being rough with the "freshmen", Believe you me, it's for their benefit because it get's tougher from here on in. The really funny thing is though, the tougher it gets, the less you seem to mind because it's all worth while.
> 
> Seeing my wife smile and hearing her laugh is worth my lifetime of misery before I met her. I only want everybody to be as happy as I am. But that happiness, you gotta pay in advance for it.



What your saying is so ridiculously intense I'm not even sure how to respond to it.


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## T_Devil (Aug 27, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> What your saying is so ridiculously intense I'm not even sure how to respond to it.



So what you are telling me is that my feelings are ridiculous? Because I feel strongly about something? Because I have conviction? Because I have pride? Because I'm happy about how I feel? 
Yes, I feel that intensely about it. 
No, I am not ashamed of that. 
At least I know how I feel. I know my feelings aren't going to change over night. I was an FA yesterday, I am one today, and I will be one tomorrow.

Don't respond to it. Breathe it in. Bask in it. I am a man who knows what he wants. I'm man who's loyal. I'm a man who's open. I'm a man who's happy, and yes, I'm man who considers himself free. I'm intense about it, because I feel so strongly about it. I take great pride in not being shackled to someone else's ideology. To live like that.... to live chained to someone else's scrutiny, to me, THAT'S ridiculous.


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## Lastminute.Tom (Aug 27, 2008)

I always thought that it was because I was less influenced by the media in the my sexual development stages but really it doesn't matter, different strokes for different folks, I'm a breaststroke man m'self ba-dum-cha


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## davoid23 (Aug 27, 2008)

T_Devil said:


> Nobody likes greedy motherfuckers. And if you ARE an FA.... You're going to have to accept it. If you accept it, then treat your woman with some god damn respect! Jesus Christ, why can't you see what I'm telling you?
> 
> This has nothing to do with being an FA or not.... it has to do with being DECENT human being. If you can't even do that... abandon your relationship before you REALLY fuck her up.



I'm saying that I *HAVE* reached that point. I'm fighting for the side of other closet FAs. I'm saying that I *USED* to be a closet FA and now I'm not. If you don't understand my posts then fine, but don't accuse me of still feeling the way I used to, which I don't. 

You can't solve every problem in life by shouting at it, telling it to f**k off or simply assuming that whatever the case you are right (because you just might not be...) Some people will never be fully out of the closet and some people will never have been in it (such as yourself I guess) and if that suits the individual in question, then good for them! It shouldn't be a case of "T_Devil (or anyone else) thinks I should be fully out or f**k off" it should be "I'm happy where I am for now and I'll work this out over time".
Everybody has a different view on things and you cannot put it so black and white as to say that anyone not at the same place as you with their closetness should f**k off. 

I agree that people should, under NO circumstance, be ashamed of their actual girlfriend or wife or partner. What I'm saying is that people may be ashamed or embarassed about their preference for larger women (or any other preference for that matter). If you are ashamed of your partner then THAT could screw up their life and make them feel terrible and THAT is what I agree with, and I have NEVER felt ashamed of anyone I have been with. What is the point in being with someone who you can't enjoy in public? It's not feasible to spend your entire life indoors witht the curtains closed. Enjoy your time together. 

Besides, if you are accusing me of not respecting my girlfriend then I'm sorry, you are sorely mistaken. I have never shown anything but respect, care and love for her and I do treat her as she deserves.
When I met her she was very insecure about everything, she was shy and she was very sensitive about lots of things (including her size).
Since we have been together she has lost almost all of her insecurities, she has more friends than she used to and I've helped her realise that she is a brilliant person and deserves nothing but good in her life.
So don't you dare tell me that I'm going to "REALLY fuck her up" because that statement is untrue and unfair considering you don't know me or her. :doh:

As far as I'm concerned, this debate is over unless you stop accusing me of untruths.


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## davoid23 (Aug 27, 2008)

olwen said:


> davoid, I'm saying you've burdened your lady. All the questioning and tiptoeing around other people when you are with her/in regards to her is a burden on her and an unnecessary one at that.
> 
> And unfortunately you are right, somehow topics like these can't be easily summed up and therein lies the problem. I don't see myself or any other fat person as a problem but you did. Closeted FAs do. An FA shouldn't need experience to show respect to the fat people they want to be with. Either you show it or you don't. If the question is "how do I show respect as an FA?" Then one doesn't understand what respect is or how to not be selfish. It's as simple as that.



I see what you are saying, but I've not actually been that way myself. If I've been with a larger lady then I've show nothing but affection, I think you and T_Devil are reading that *I* am the person in question, but no, I'm trying to fight for the side that won't defend themselves. The side that will be intimidated by such strong feelings.

I myself have never felt someone feel I am ashamed to be with them, sorry if I gave that impression. I used to be unsure about my feelings, but during that time I didn't want to be with someone because I *knew* that I'd be a burden.

Thanks for your reply though!


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## Happenstance (Aug 27, 2008)

T_Devil said:


> So what you are telling me is that my feelings are ridiculous? Because I feel strongly about something? Because I have conviction? Because I have pride? Because I'm happy about how I feel?
> Yes, I feel that intensely about it.
> No, I am not ashamed of that.
> At least I know how I feel. I know my feelings aren't going to change over night. I was an FA yesterday, I am one today, and I will be one tomorrow.
> ...



Great, now stop expecting everyone to be exactly like you. This is a place that people come expecting to find help. You're clearly don't need it and aren't providing it, so what are you even doing here?


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## T_Devil (Aug 27, 2008)

Happenstance said:


> Great, now stop expecting everyone to be exactly like you. This is a place that people come expecting to find help. You're clearly don't need it and aren't providing it, so what are you even doing here?



I'm here to disappoint you. 

What? You asked! :doh:


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Aug 27, 2008)

T_Devil said:


> *EVERY FA should have themselves figured out before they decide to go for women.* I say this because I've seen girls get hurt by guys who didn't know what the fuck they wanted. they didn't know, couldn't figure it out, walked on out the door and the girl is left there wondering what the fuck she did wrong.
> 
> *Does that sound fair to you?*
> 
> *Get your priorities together before you want to enter an ADULT RELATIONSHIP.* Training wheels are off. If they fuck it up now, somone's going to get hurt. I just rather it's not the girl left crying and confused because some asshole can't get his fuckin' shit together.





olwen said:


> Chimpi I wish I was a benevolent and patient as you and I've been told I am quite patient so that's saying a lot coming from me, but I just know I am quite sick of "men" who need to find themselves as far as fat admiration is concerned.
> 
> Participating in this site and reading thru all the threads about fat admiration from the male's perspective has taught me a lot about how hard it seems to be for so many. I see that this is the case, but I guess I don't understand why this is so hard for so many. Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why? Why should I or any other fat woman accept that or put up with it? Asking us to understand is like asking us to admit that there is something wrong with our size when there damn well isn't. *It's asking me to be complicit in abuse and destructive behavior that is directed towards me. It's asking me to understand and accept that they are ashamed of me and their attraction to me. What the fuck is that shit? I got enough to deal with my own problems and abuses from like, everyone else and then here come these whiny closeted FAs asking for sympathy for being too scared to piss on the pot and I'm supposed to act like this is a real problem? FUCK THAT! *



Exactly...both of you. Any man should take all the time he needs....I am not one to "push" anyone into anything they are not ready for..........but I am one to tell someone to back the fuck off if they have issues they haven't learned to deal with. No man ashamed of his preference has a right to date his preference ....hell he doesn't even have the right to deceive a woman that is not his preference. It's all based upon lies..........and that leads to abuse. 
"I'm not your bitch, don't hang your shit on me"





Carl1h said:


> Let me second your sentiments here Olwen. Let me also add that this doesn't just cut both ways on the FA and fat equation, but it cuts every which way for everyone.
> 
> None of us want to be jerked around while somebody tries to figure themselves out. I can't think of any clearer way to put it than to quote my father, "Quit jelly-dicking around!"



Exactly Carl. I try to make an equal equation in my mind.......I date some younger men. Should I be ashamed of this and not go out in public with them? Should they be ashamed to be seen out with me? 
If either of us are THAT uncomfortable about the whole thing, then we have no business being together. It really IS that simple......and as T-Devil said, just basic human decency. 



davoid23 said:


> *I'm not saying that I hide it* or what ever, but I don't really see that it is anyone else's business, you know? That's why I only told the people who I spent most time with, *that way I could feel comfortable being me around the people whose opinions I do care about, and not worry about the opinions that don't matter to me (other colleagues, strangers or friends of friends). *



You aren't saying that? Looks like you already did......you also seem to contradict your original post. 



davoid23 said:


> *None of my friends or workmates are FAs and it is tricky because they just wouldn't understand why I like it. The only people who know are my 2 closest friends and, now, my special lady.
> 
> Like I said however, it can be very tricky not to let slip a comment or to look at a big girl for too long and if you're caught then that's it! It's a minefield out there... *





davoid23 said:


> I'm certainly not suggesting that every FA should hide it or deny it, but those who don't feel comfortable for whatever reason (after all, we can't control our feelings on some things) should be able to take their time and should think about their decisions.





davoid23 said:


> People who have fetishes (*I know that being an FA isn't classed as having a fetish for fat*) of giantesses or feet or hair e.t.c have the same choices as FAs, I think there are roughly 5 main categories:
> 
> 1 - Embrace it fully. Let the whole world know. Wear a shirt with "Fat chicks wanted!" on it.
> 
> ...





olwen said:


> Tell the ones who don't embrace it openly not to dump their hangups on the people they're attracted to or expect them to accept such a limited amount of respect, after all it's just rude.



Olwen beat me to it.....It goes wayyyyyyyyyy beyond mere rudeness to date a person you are not honest with/about. It's is deceptive, manipulative, weak, asinine, immature bullshit. 
No excuses.....date someone that is ashamed to be seen with you....and then get back to me about all this. I would love to hear what excuses you come up with for them. 



davoid23 said:


> Sorry olwen, do you mean that I've burdened somebody or are you agreeing with me? (sorry to sound a little dim... lol)
> 
> I mean, in my first job out of school I hid who I was, but now I'm more accepting of it and of myself, I don't feel the need to and I certainly hope that I've never given limited respect to or burdened my special lady...





olwen said:


> davoid, I'm saying you've burdened your lady. All the questioning and tiptoeing around other people when you are with her/in regards to her is a burden on her and an unnecessary one at that.
> 
> And unfortunately you are right, somehow topics like these can't be easily summed up and therein lies the problem. *I don't see myself or any other fat person as a problem but you did. Closeted FAs do. * An FA shouldn't need experience to show respect to the fat people they want to be with. Either you show it or you don't. If the question is "how do I show respect as an FA?" Then one doesn't understand what respect is or how to not be selfish. It's as simple as that.



Olwen said it first again :bow:

The closet FA problem should be just that....the closeted FAs problem- not the problem of the person he/she dates. 



T_Devil said:


> Closeted FA's ARE the problem though. It is an arrogant thing to say to a fat girl "You're ok.... _most of the time._"
> 
> *You and I BOTH know that's bullshit and selfish. *The only advice I can give you at this point as "a proud FA" is abandon this whole closet mentality. Why hold onto it? What are you afraid of? *If you can't give ALL of yourself to someone ALL of the time, then what the hell are you doing in an adult relationship?*
> 
> ...




Oh my....... :wubu:


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## olwen (Aug 27, 2008)

davoid23 said:


> I see what you are saying, but I've not actually been that way myself. If I've been with a larger lady then I've show nothing but affection, I think you and T_Devil are reading that *I* am the person in question, but no, I'm trying to fight for the side that won't defend themselves. The side that will be intimidated by such strong feelings.
> 
> I myself have never felt someone feel I am ashamed to be with them, sorry if I gave that impression. I used to be unsure about my feelings, but during that time I didn't want to be with someone because I *knew* that I'd be a burden.
> 
> Thanks for your reply though!



Go back and read your first post and really examine your former mentality. You say you're now fully out of the closet - great, but the fact is you were in there, perhaps deep. I understand your need to defend you're former behavior. You wouldn't be human if you didn't. What I'm saying is you should never have been in there in the first place and that kind of behavior is indefensible as far as I'm concerned. If my stance seems harsh to you then all I can say is life's tough. No choice but to deal with it.


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## davoid23 (Aug 27, 2008)

Green_Eyed_Fairy said:


> You aren't saying that? Looks like you already did......you also seem to contradict your original post.


Oh yeah, I see what you mean, but I was speaking about the time when I was in my first job. 
Where I said:
"None of my friends or workmates are FAs and it is tricky because they just wouldn't understand why I like it. The only people who know are my 2 closest friends and, now, my special lady." - That means like how I felt _at the time_ rather than now. The "special lady" I'm talking about there is not who I'm with now.
I see what you mean though, it does sound contradictory, sorry! :doh:

These days I have a very different group of friends, a more sensible and mature group who accept people for who they are.
My job used to be in a shop working with other guys between 20 - 35 and who felt the need to be macho at every opportunity! Nowadays I have a much more professional job and work with real people who just want to be *themselves* rather than wanting to be more of a (stereotypical) man than the others.

I've been with my current partner for a few years now and am really hoping that it'll last, but a few of my old friends have noticed that all my GFs have been big and have just asked "What's with the fat girls mate?" and I just tell them straight that I prefer a larger lady! I (eventually) realised that just saying that made life so much easier! Hiding from yourself is a horrible feeling and I'm very glad that I'm free of it now and can just be myself. 

------------------------------------------
To olwen:


olwen said:


> Go back and read your first post and really examine your former mentality. You say you're now fully out of the closet - great, but the fact is you were in there, perhaps deep. I understand your need to defend you're former behavior. You wouldn't be human if you didn't. What I'm saying is you should never have been in there in the first place and that kind of behavior is indefensible as far as I'm concerned. If my stance seems harsh to you then all I can say is life's tough. No choice but to deal with it.



No no, I know what you are saying and you aren't saying it in a harsh way. You seem to understand what it was like and what I've been saying and so no, not harsh at all. As far as I'm concerned, *so long as you can see my point*, then I don't mind you disagreeing at all!


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## thatgirl08 (Aug 27, 2008)

T_Devil said:


> So what you are telling me is that my feelings are ridiculous? Because I feel strongly about something? Because I have conviction? Because I have pride? Because I'm happy about how I feel?
> Yes, I feel that intensely about it.
> No, I am not ashamed of that.
> At least I know how I feel. I know my feelings aren't going to change over night. I was an FA yesterday, I am one today, and I will be one tomorrow.
> ...



It's great that you feel that way and I'm happy for you. However, I highly doubt you've always been that way. What about extending a little respect and sympathy for other guys who aren't quite where you are yet? Honestly, you're 33...you're naturally going to have yourself figured out more than someone who is, say, 18. I think they deserve a little time and patience as they grow up a little, and gain the courage to step out of the closet as well. 

I'm sure it's hard to come out as an FA and I'm not about to judge anyone who isn't completely ready for that yet.


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## kayrae (Aug 28, 2008)

I second that... I was beginning to feel like this thread got crazy emotional. 



thatgirl08 said:


> It's great that you feel that way and I'm happy for you. However, I highly doubt you've always been that way. What about extending a little respect and sympathy for other guys who aren't quite where you are yet? Honestly, you're 33...you're naturally going to have yourself figured out more than someone who is, say, 18. I think they deserve a little time and patience as they grow up a little, and gain the courage to step out of the closet as well.
> 
> I'm sure it's hard to come out as an FA and I'm not about to judge anyone who isn't completely ready for that yet.


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## Dr. P Marshall (Aug 28, 2008)

To answer the question of the thread, there is evidence in my extended family on my mother's side that it is genetic in our case. I honestly don't really care why I'm an FFA, I just am. 

As for the sub topic running through this thread:

I am not drawing any conclusions about you davoid, I understand you're playing devil's advocate for the other side, so, the use of the term "you" in this reply is general, not aimed at you personally. Also, I'm an FFA and I am aiming this at FAs of both genders. I don't care if it's easier for an FFA to pass, we shouldn't be closet cases either. 



davoid23 said:


> I myself have never felt someone feel I am ashamed to be with them, sorry if I gave that impression.



The problem is so many closeted FAs do do that. And let's be brutally honest here, if an FA is ashamed of being seen with a fat person, they are not an FA. They're not. They are someone who likes to have sex with fat people. I, personally, think of them as FFs and that second F doesn't stand for fetishist. A BBW or BHM can date a non-FA and be made to feel uncomfortable, inadequate and that their partner is embarrassed of them. In fact, there are probably many non-FAs who would treat the right fat partner better because they fell in love with that person and they know that you treat a person you care about with respect and not as some dirty little secret. (Yes, I did just say that. That is what all closet cases are treating the object of their affection as- an object). I honestly think closet cases are one of the reasons so many BBW and BHM wonder whether or not they are a "fetish" to FAs. It's very dehumanizing to know that the only place your partner really likes being with you is in the bedroom. So, yes, many FAs who are comfortable with their identity and choice of partner when in public are going to have a tough time with people who "couch date" or in any other way give more consideration to the thoughts of others than they do to the feelings and dignity of the person they are dating. I can understand finding yourself and coming out to yourself, but the minute you(the general you) bring another person's feelings into it, you had better have your act together when it comes to being seen in public with your SO. I'm not saying everyone will achieve T-Devil's level of openness right away or ever depending on their personality, but every FA knows what is in their heart and if you are ashamed of the fat person you are dating, you shouldn't be dating. End of story.



thatgirl08 said:


> It's great that you feel that way and I'm happy for you. However, I highly doubt you've always been that way. What about extending a little respect and sympathy for other guys who aren't quite where you are yet? Honestly, you're 33...you're naturally going to have yourself figured out more than someone who is, say, 18. I think they deserve a little time and patience as they grow up a little, and gain the courage to step out of the closet as well.
> 
> I'm sure it's hard to come out as an FA and I'm not about to judge anyone who isn't completely ready for that yet.



I am all for FAs finding themselves and being able to discuss issues of coming to terms with the thoughts and feelings that being an FA generates. I'm an FFA, so I've been there, believe me. But there is a HUGE difference between coming out to yourself and wrestling with your inner demons, versus coming out to the world and those around you. The second issue is not about finding your way, it's about acknowledging and accepting who you are as an FA and understanding that you will have to deal with all of the things in public and your social sphere that all FAs have to go through. There is no way around it. Until an FA is ready to AT LEAST be unapologetic about who they date and be proud to be with that person, they are not ready to date. The closet is not an option once you decide to start dating. How you're going to tell people and how you'll handle their reactions is something you think about BEFORE you start dating, but once someone else's feelings are going to be on the line IT IS NOT AN OPTION. No exceptions. None. That is the difference. That is not being harsh. You cannot date someone and refuse to admit it, or to dread being seen in public with them or what have you. No one should have to be in a relationship where they feel or know outright that their partner is embarrassed of them. This isn't about FAs early on exploring their feelings, this is about FAs who want to "get away with" having sex with fat women(or men, not being sexist here) but don't want anyone to realize that they like their partner fat because they are afraid it will reflect badly on them. They want things both ways. They don't want to accept the social consequences of being an FA, but they want the sexual enjoyment of being one. That IS messed up. And unbelievably selfish. I'm jumping on the hardass FA bandwagon on this one. All fat people deserve better than that. Sure relationships don't work all the time and FAs may have struggles, but one of those struggles should never be being embarrassed of the person they are dating. It just shouldn't.


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## T_Devil (Aug 28, 2008)

kayrae said:


> I second that... I was beginning to feel like this thread got crazy emotional.



it's a crazy emotional issue.


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## thatgirl08 (Aug 28, 2008)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> I am all for FAs finding themselves and being able to discuss issues of coming to terms with the thoughts and feelings that being an FA generates. I'm an FFA, so I've been there, believe me. But there is a HUGE difference between coming out to yourself and wrestling with your inner demons, versus coming out to the world and those around you. The second issue is not about finding your way, it's about acknowledging and accepting who you are as an FA and understanding that you will have to deal with all of the things in public and your social sphere that all FAs have to go through. There is no way around it. Until an FA is ready to AT LEAST be unapologetic about who they date and be proud to be with that person, they are not ready to date. The closet is not an option once you decide to start dating. How you're going to tell people and how you'll handle their reactions is something you think about BEFORE you start dating, but once someone else's feelings are going to be on the line IT IS NOT AN OPTION. No exceptions. None. That is the difference. That is not being harsh. You cannot date someone and refuse to admit it, or to dread being seen in public with them or what have you. No one should have to be in a relationship where they feel or know outright that their partner is embarrassed of them. This isn't about FAs early on exploring their feelings, this is about FAs who want to "get away with" having sex with fat women(or men, not being sexist here) but don't want anyone to realize that they like their partner fat because they are afraid it will reflect badly on them. They want things both ways. They don't want to accept the social consequences of being an FA, but they want the sexual enjoyment of being one. That IS messed up. And unbelievably selfish. I'm jumping on the hardass FA bandwagon on this one. All fat people deserve better than that. Sure relationships don't work all the time and FAs may have struggles, but one of those struggles should never be being embarrassed of the person they are dating. It just shouldn't.



I totally agree that once you start dating someone you can't be in the closet still. I was just saying that it's a little ridiculous to expect every single FA on here to be completely open about it because not everyone is going to be at that point yet. That's all I was saying.


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## KHayes666 (Aug 28, 2008)

Ok, I've told this story a thousand times but it goes with the thread so I'll tell it again.

I didn't become an F/A till I was a senior in high school, but the seeds were planted my junior year. My junior year I dated a really really sweet girl, in the full year we dated I never once saw her frown, now the one mutual friend we had was this 180 lb chubby nerd. I didn't really talk to the friend much until really the end of the year when she decided to give me her s/n. After the year was over my g/f moved away and I didn't really talk to the chubby friend much, pretty much dissappeared all summer.

My first day of senior year was when I became an F/A. I was standing up against my locker, but to the left of me was an open doorway into a classroom. I'm talking to 2 of my friends, one to my right, one in front of me when out of the corner of my eye I see this (at the time I thought) really fat girl waving in my direction. At first I thought she was waving at someone in the classroom so I kept talking. Soon this girl kept coming closer and closer until I heard "Hey Kevin" then I turned to look........HOLY SHIT!

It was my chubby friend alright, only about 50 lbs heavier than the last time I saw her in JUNE. I'm not kidding, she looked a legitimate 230 and I was in total shock. She went up and hugged me and...it felt good. I couldn't understand the sensation but her warm, soft embrace felt really good. Why was the fact my friend got fat making me feel good? I started asking myself if I liked fat girls all along but just didn't know it? 

5 days later I was still confused so I went on the computer in the school library and I typed the words "female weight gain" on altavista.com.....and one of the options was a link to a story called The Mountain of Geneva on Dimensionsmagazine.com. I opened it up and the rest is history.....here I am now, almost 5 years later.

In my case I guess since I had never actually had physical contact with a bbw growing up I wasn't aware of how great it was to be with one. As for the chubby girl that started it out, turns out she had a self destructive personality and it really didn't mesh with mine, and we actually did go on a date at the end of the year but it didn't work. I thank her for opening the door to where I am now, its made me a better person, but I just wish she thought a little better of herself at the time.

I've wondered why I've been made an F/A but when it comes down to it, it really doesn't matter because I go out with a girl for her personality first, looks second. For instance, if there's a girl who's mean to everyone, really insecure about herself and has a history of drugs and alcohol, and there's another girl who's never been in trouble, very very sweet to me and my family loves her.....does it matter what size each girl is as long as she's sweet to me? Yes, I am attracted to bigger women and I would prefer dating one, but its not a total nessecity when it comes to dating. I prefer a sweetheart to a bitch....but that's just my own opinion


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## Dr. P Marshall (Aug 28, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> I totally agree that once you start dating someone you can't be in the closet still. I was just saying that it's a little ridiculous to expect every single FA on here to be completely open about it because not everyone is going to be at that point yet. That's all I was saying.



I understand what you're saying, I was just using your post as a launching point for my tirade. That wasn't aimed at you. I completely agree, that each FA has their own "time table" for accepting who they are. The problem is, it often gets muddled, the difference between worrying about what people will say BEFORE you date someone, versus worrying about it once you are already in the dating pool. In my opinion, there is understanding for one position, but no tolerance for the second one. I think a lot of FAs get frustrated with those FAs who think it is OK to sort out feelings of shame or fear of judgment while they are pursuing relationships. I have patience for the person coming to terms with public acceptance before the fact. But I think the reason this gets such a strong reaction from some of us is that far too many FAs make it clear that they don't wait to sort out their feelings before they get other people involved. And as a result, far too many BBW and BHM have horror stories about being put in awful positions and made to feel used and disrespected.


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## thatgirl08 (Aug 28, 2008)

This is such a tricky issue. It's easy to say that every single FA/FFA should have everything figured out before they date someone but on the other hand, I realize that things just aren't as black and white as that. 
I'm not an FFA, so I suppose I don't know exactly what FA's go through, but I am bisexual [I hate this word, but I suppose it's the best word to describe my sexuality] and I think in many ways the struggle is similar. There was a brief time when I was younger when I came out to a few close friends and other people in school and a girl and I started talking. She eventually asked me to be her girlfriend, and I said yes, but then as soon as I did it, I thought about all the people I was going to have to tell, and all the people that were going to see us together. Long story short, I broke up with her shortly after because I realized I wasn't ready. I felt terrible because I knew I disappointed her, and hurt her feelings. I'm not saying it was okay for me to use her as a way to realize I wasn't ready to come out, but it just sort of happened. She reacted much in the same way I would react if my boyfriend decided he wasn't ready to have a fat girlfriend yet - she forgave me and moved on. Another girl I knew in school was very openly bisexual. By the time she was a sophomore the entire school knew [it was honestly, bordering obnoxious] and she just had this irritating mentality that every single person should be as out and open as her. We became friends, and I told her I was bi and she immediately criticized me because I wasn't out of the closet yet. She told me that I was doing more damage to the LGBTQI cause than homophobes. I think some of the really out and open FA's here often times have the same mentality. They seem to think every single other FA needs to be completely out and open, but not everyone is going to be that way at the same time. Honestly, I'm 18 and I'm still not out to hardly anyone. Only a very small number of my friends know and that's it. I wish I had the confidence to come out as bisexual but I just don't yet and I really don't think I deserve to be judged based on that. I think the same goes with FA's who just aren't ready to deal with all the shit that comes with it.


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## Victim (Aug 28, 2008)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> I understand what you're saying, I was just using your post as a launching point for my tirade. That wasn't aimed at you. I completely agree, that each FA has their own "time table" for accepting who they are. The problem is, it often gets muddled, the difference between worrying about what people will say BEFORE you date someone, versus worrying about it once you are already in the dating pool. In my opinion, there is understanding for one position, but no tolerance for the second one. I think a lot of FAs get frustrated with those FAs who think it is OK to sort out feelings of shame or fear of judgment while they are pursuing relationships. I have patience for the person coming to terms with public acceptance before the fact. But I think the reason this gets such a strong reaction from some of us is that far too many FAs make it clear that they don't wait to sort out their feelings before they get other people involved. And as a result, far too many BBW and BHM have horror stories about being put in awful positions and made to feel used and disrespected.




I think the closet FAs need to understand just how liberating it is to go out into the world and show everyone that you can do and like whatever you want and if they can't accept it then it is their problem and not yours.

if your BBW partner is just something big and squishy you like to roll around with in the sack but can't be seen with, then I'd suggest visiting the masturbation thread for some interesting ideas on things you can just stuff under the bed when you're through fantasizing about them.

While you've been hiding what you are from the world, the women you 'admire' are forced to deal with it whenever they step outside. The hate and indifference out there eats away at them until some turn into shells that just move around on autopilot and do whatever is expected of them by the rest of the world. They don't smile, they don't care about themselves anymore, and many seem to have given up on life. When I see this I give them an approving smile, and if I'm nearby even try to talk to them, but the ones that are too beat down by the world just recoil back into their shells. This makes me want to fucking rip someone's heart out, but you can't. There is no way to take out your rage on an intangible idea that has been breeding in the mind of our culture for close to a century. 

Closeted FAs come to DIMS and see beautiful, liberated and proud women that they fantasize about being with. As are other FAs, I am truly in awe of these women, and am glad they found a way to break out of their shells. 

Some of the women you desire to be with need the courage to stand up to the world. I'm afraid that initially, that courage is going to have to come from YOU. If you don't have any to spare, then don't dare bring them down any further than they might be already. You need to stand up against the world together. It will make you both stronger. She will see herself as you see her. Then you will realize the reality is much better than the fantasy.


OK, I'll quit channeling T-Devil now...


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## T_Devil (Aug 28, 2008)

Victim said:


> OK, I'll quit channeling T-Devil now...


You say that like it's a bad thing.


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## olwen (Aug 28, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> This is such a tricky issue. It's easy to say that every single FA/FFA should have everything figured out before they date someone but on the other hand, I realize that things just aren't as black and white as that.
> I'm not an FFA, so I suppose I don't know exactly what FA's go through, but I am bisexual [I hate this word, but I suppose it's the best word to describe my sexuality] and I think in many ways the struggle is similar. There was a brief time when I was younger when I came out to a few close friends and other people in school and a girl and I started talking. She eventually asked me to be her girlfriend, and I said yes, but then as soon as I did it, I thought about all the people I was going to have to tell, and all the people that were going to see us together. Long story short, I broke up with her shortly after because I realized I wasn't ready. I felt terrible because I knew I disappointed her, and hurt her feelings. I'm not saying it was okay for me to use her as a way to realize I wasn't ready to come out, but it just sort of happened. She reacted much in the same way I would react if my boyfriend decided he wasn't ready to have a fat girlfriend yet - she forgave me and moved on. Another girl I knew in school was very openly bisexual. By the time she was a sophomore the entire school knew [it was honestly, bordering obnoxious] and she just had this irritating mentality that every single person should be as out and open as her. We became friends, and I told her I was bi and she immediately criticized me because I wasn't out of the closet yet. She told me that I was doing more damage to the LGBTQI cause than homophobes. I think some of the really out and open FA's here often times have the same mentality. They seem to think every single other FA needs to be completely out and open, but not everyone is going to be that way at the same time. Honestly, I'm 18 and I'm still not out to hardly anyone. Only a very small number of my friends know and that's it. I wish I had the confidence to come out as bisexual but I just don't yet and I really don't think I deserve to be judged based on that. I think the same goes with FA's who just aren't ready to deal with all the shit that comes with it.



I see where you are coming from, TG8. I see the parallels you are drawing and we often draw parallels to the GLTB community when we talk about fat sexuality, because a lot of times the situations are quite similar, however, the real difference between the two here is that fat people CANNOT hide their fat, while someone who is gay can hide their sexuality if they feel they really need to. If you live in a small town full of closeminded people who ostracize you till you leave, or if your life is in danger, then hide you must till you can get out of that environment, but really, this isn't the case with FAs. No FA is going to get fired for being an FA or beat to within inches of their lives, or raped by some asshole who thinks all they need is a good dick to set them straight. That's where the parallels stop. Your life is not in danger if you are an FA. So the only real pressure and shame then comes from within and not without and all the burden is on the closeted FA and no one else. So I'm sorry but this isn't a tricky issue, either a person who loves fat people is an FA or they are not and it really is that black and white.


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## T_Devil (Aug 29, 2008)

olwen said:


> I see where you are coming from, TG8. I see the parallels you are drawing and we often draw parallels to the GLTB community when we talk about fat sexuality, because a lot of times the situations are quite similar, however, the real difference between the two here is that fat people CANNOT hide their fat, while someone who is gay can hide their sexuality if they feel they really need to. If you live in a small town full of closeminded people who ostracize you till you leave, or if your life is in danger, then hide you must till you can get out of that environment, but really, this isn't the case with FAs. No FA is going to get fired for being an FA or beat to within inches of their lives, or raped by some asshole who thinks all they need is a good dick to set them straight. That's where the parallels stop. Your life is not in danger if you are an FA. So the only real pressure and shame then comes from within and not without and all the burden is on the closeted FA and no one else. So I'm sorry but this isn't a tricky issue, either a person who loves fat people is an FA or they are not and it really is that black and white.


God damn it, I can't rep you again.
I sooooo owe you rep! :bow:


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## guitarist13 (Aug 29, 2008)

I have no idea why I'm an FA. I have a weird drive to my sexual attraction. I can't deny that I'm an FA - it's just the truth. But at the same time, if there's a thin girl with a great body, it turns me on too. I don't think it turns me on as much, but it does nonetheless. 

I guess it's just safe to say that I appreciate the female figure, big or small. And nothing knocks me out more than a beautiful face - forget the girl's body.


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## thatgirl08 (Aug 30, 2008)

olwen said:


> I see where you are coming from, TG8. I see the parallels you are drawing and we often draw parallels to the GLTB community when we talk about fat sexuality, because a lot of times the situations are quite similar, however, the real difference between the two here is that fat people CANNOT hide their fat, while someone who is gay can hide their sexuality if they feel they really need to. If you live in a small town full of closeminded people who ostracize you till you leave, or if your life is in danger, then hide you must till you can get out of that environment, but really, this isn't the case with FAs. No FA is going to get fired for being an FA or beat to within inches of their lives, or raped by some asshole who thinks all they need is a good dick to set them straight. That's where the parallels stop. Your life is not in danger if you are an FA. So the only real pressure and shame then comes from within and not without and all the burden is on the closeted FA and no one else. So I'm sorry but this isn't a tricky issue, either a person who loves fat people is an FA or they are not and it really is that black and white.



I understand what you're saying, but I disagree. 

I personally am not in a position where I would be in physical danger for coming out. Many of my friends were/are members of the school's Gay Straight Alliance and I actually have quite a few LGBTQI friends. My school in general was pretty accepting with the exception of a few closeminded faculty members and kids. Although the older generations of my family would not be approving at all, my aunts, uncles, cousins and parents would be supporting. I'd be physically safe and I'd be emotionally supported for the most part if I came out but there's just so many lurking questions and insecurities. 

Am I going to be treated differently by the people I care about? Am I going to feel like I can still relate to my friends? What would they say if I told them I was attracted to a girl? Would it be awkward to talk about the girls I like in front of people? etc. etc. 

I think a lot of those same questions remain for FA's. What are their friends going to say about it? Are they going to be able to talk about the girls they find attractive without it being awkward or without feeling judged? etc. etc.

I'm not saying it's okay to spend your entire life in the closet because I strongly believe that there is a time when you need to come to terms with yourself, even the parts you don't like...just for your own happiness and well-being. An FA who only is attracted to fat girls is never going to be completley satisfied in a relationship with a thin girl and it's unfair to put himself and the thin girl(s) in that situation. But, I think for the guys that are not actively pursuing a relationship with anyone [thin, fat, whatever] and are still trying to wrestle with those insecurities within themselves, then they don't deserve to be judged based on that. I don't think anyone has the right to tell another person that it's not okay for them to be in the closet still. Everyone is going to deal with things in their own way, on their own time schedule. Just because today might be right for one person, doesn't mean that it's going to be right for another. How are you, or anyone else, supposed to tell someone when they have to face their own fears? 

I also want to add that I believe that any girl [BBW] that enters a relationship knowing that the FA is still in the closet is setting herself up for heart break. If she knowingly enters the relationship and expects him to come out of the closet after, then it's her own fault. If you're not willing to deal with someone who is still in the closet [which I don't blame you at all] then make sure he's out BEFORE you start dating him. Do his friends know? His family? Has he had fat girlfriends before? Is he embarrassed to go on dates with you in public? Like, it's not rocket science. If he acts like he doesn't know you whenever you go in public, he's not out. 

I also just want to add that I think it's a little hypocritcal for everyone to be hating on all the FA's that aren't out of the closet yet but yet no one is upset with the BBW's that aren't proud of themselves. Why is it so wrong for an FA to be nervous about peoples reactions but it's okay for a BBW, even those who are in relationships with FA's to constantly be putting herself down and fishing for compliments from her FA boyfriend? Why is the FA expected to just grow a pair and get over everyones comments, yet a BBW is allowed to consistently hate on herself? How is that fair to the FA at all when he has to constantly defend his preferences even with her? If FA's are expected to deal with the downside of being attracted to fat, then I suppose all BBW's need to shut the fuck up and deal with the downside of being fat.


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## olwen (Aug 30, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> I understand what you're saying, but I disagree.
> 
> I personally am not in a position where I would be in physical danger for coming out. Many of my friends were/are members of the school's Gay Straight Alliance and I actually have quite a few LGBTQI friends. My school in general was pretty accepting with the exception of a few closeminded faculty members and kids. Although the older generations of my family would not be approving at all, my aunts, uncles, cousins and parents would be supporting. I'd be physically safe and I'd be emotionally supported for the most part if I came out but there's just so many lurking questions and insecurities.
> 
> ...



There is a huge difference between the FA dealing with liking fat the and fat person dealing with being fat and lacking confidence. The fat person, if they have been fat their entire lives has had for years to deal daily with a constant barrage of insults and abuses both verbal and physical from all sides - family, friends, doctors, teachers and other authority figures, not to mention the media. There's no hiding from that. To be able to gain confidence is difficult in that environment. And even when you manage to be confident it is tested constantly. You can't just tell a fat person to just shut the fuck up and get over a lifetime of abuse and near crippling suffering. As much as I want it to it's not going to happen just like that.

What abuses are an FA going to suffer on a daily basis because of their sexuality? What's to be awkward about? Whatever it is it cannot compare to the bullshit I or any other fat person has had to put up with and they all know it. It's part of the reason why so many of them feel guilty, and to compare the two is just plain crazy talk. You wanna know who's judging, I'm judging because every fat girl I know who's dated has been thru this at least once confident or no. I'm judging because I was on the receiving end at least once by someone who was supposed to care about me. That's the thing. They may actually care and you want to believe it's true so you put up with a lot of bullshit before you reach a limit. And you are right. It is her fault if she thinks she can make him see otherwise. Silly her thinking the guy who is supposed to care about her will actually care and show it. 

Seems like the FA has to grow a pair before he has the ability to show he cares. He has to grow a pair before he can be sensitive enough to know the difference between the actual sufferring the bbw he's turned on by has been thru because she is fat and the pretend kind he thinks he has suffered thru for liking fat. I fully expect a grown man who can make rent and car payments, holds a job, pays his taxes, votes, and who has the ability to make intelligent choices to be able to deal with his sexuality. I fully expect a high school or college kid who sees that the bbw he likes is being bullied and harassed by her classmates, friends, and family to be sensitive and unselfish enough to know not to add to it. 18 is not to young to know the difference between selfish and unselfish. If an 18 year old can vote and go to war he can damn sure know how to not treat the object of his affection like shit. But for the 18 year old bbw who's been treated like shit her whole life because of her size to know what it's like to be treated like she's special is not something I would expect and it takes that unselfish FA to have a big enough pair to show her the difference.


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## Dr. P Marshall (Aug 30, 2008)

[ All reference to "you" is meant in the general sense. This is not directed at thatgirl08, merely addressing the issues her post brought up.



thatgirl08 said:


> I'm not an FFA, so I suppose I don't know exactly what FA's go through,



I am an FFA and for the record a thin one so my only issues in terms of this board are FA issues. I know what we go through. I appreciate when the fat folks on the board are understanding of FA issues, believe me, but this whole closet issue is not a place where we should be given leeway.

I don't think anyone thinks an FA should figure out they're an FA one day and then be completely out, proud, self assured and issue free the next. The detail, the point here is the impact of an FAs actions on fat people. Not our feelings as FAs, but our actions as we sort it all out. And people are only being hard on FAs who think it is OK to date or sleep with fat people before they are ready to stand up for themselves and their partner. And that can mean something as simple as holding their partner's hand while out in public by the way. Or introducing their partner to their friends. No excuses, or apologies. It's simple decency. Most thin people would never tolerate dating someone who wouldn't take them out in public, or who was afraid to introduce them to their friends, so why should fat people put up with that? Again, I don't think it's wrong for an FA to initially wonder what people will think and how they will deal with all of that, but this must be done before any fat person is asked out on a date. It must. To do otherwise is disrespectful. 

Once you get it that you are an FA, you basically have three choices. The first is a life in the closet with no fat partners ever. That has it's own problems. The second is to be out as an FA. That doesn't mean you have to shout it from the roof tops, but it does mean that you live honestly and you treat your fat partner as your partner, all the time, not just when it is convenient. The third way is this sort of half closeted way that has everyone so upset. No matter what an FA may want to believe, if you date or have sex with fat people, but don't treat them the same way you would a thin partner, simply put, you are being a dirtbag. You are. 

There are several reasons why some FAs are so tough on the "freshmen". Olwen is correct, it is not the same as a gay couple. A gay couple can mutually agree to be in the closet if the situation is too difficult for them to be out. A fat partner can't pretend to be thin. So basically, being an FA means you have to deal with what your partner is going to go through. I personally feel that if you are an FA, you should feel great solidarity with all fat people, even the ones you won't be dating. Even if you otherwise have no BBW or BHM friends. (I would find that odd for an FA to have no fat friends, but, just for argument's sake). The reason for that is that any problems your personal fat partner will have are the same things experienced by all fat people. The fact that society treats fat people badly should have an impact on any FA who cares about a fat person. Really cares, not just wants to sleep with a fat person. The reason you see "hardcore" FAs and particularly older ones being so tough on closet cases is because they have seen wonderful women and men who have had to be built back up or who have to work hard to keep themselves up when they are constantly barraged by negativity. After a while, any thoughtful, caring FA is going to take that to heart too. Every time it is hard to convince a fat person they are attractive, or that you think they're a great catch or what have you, an FA knows that it is because of all the negativity from society and it makes them angry. And it especially makes them angry if some closet case has contributed to the fat person's esteem problems or made them more suspicious of FAs in general. Most of the really good FAs are not only committed to their partner or spouse, they are committed to fat people being treated better and feeling better about themselves. All fat people. 

The other side of this addresses the questions you brought up below. 


thatgirl08 said:


> I think a lot of those same questions remain for FA's. What are their friends going to say about it? Are they going to be able to talk about the girls they find attractive without it being awkward or without feeling judged? etc. etc.


As for these questions, some people will have a harder time than others, it depends on your family and friends and your career path. But if you are ever going to be out as an FA at all, you may as well get used to it. Things will change. You need to accept that some of your relationships will change, you may lose friends, be made fun of, looked at funny and constantly lectured. That's the easy stuff. Wait until you get to the guilt and the other issues. Yes, I understand it is easier figuring things out as you get older and you care less what others think the older you get, but there are plenty of young FAs here on this board who are among some of the best we have. So age isn't really an issue. It's more about the person. Again, some people will have a hard time being different, but as FAs we already are and there is no point pretending to ourselves or anyone else that we are like non-FAs. I understand that someone who is figuring out the whole thing will think about what people will say, I did at one point, we all did. I don't think anyone here is saying that is wrong. In general. What IS wrong is to worry about that when you know you're about to go out on a date with someone. You can't decide mid-date that being out with a BBW isn't really such a good idea because people are staring. Because now she is the one who will get hurt. Any F/FA who can't see that, or who doesnt think it matters, is selfish. It's just that simple. Yes, it takes two to tango, but until that first public date, or meeting of the friends or what have you, the BBW or BHM might not know for certain how the FA is going to behave. But the FA does know. We know. Everyone of all sizes knows what makes them uncomfortable in public or with their friends and family. If you're someone easily influenced or who likes to conform at all costs, you know this is going to be rough. So you either figure out that being who you are is worth you getting over what other people think about you, or you go back to the drawing board and work on yourself until you're ready to date. FA issues are FA issues and it is our responsibility to deal with most of them before we get a BBW or BHM involved. Some things will always be there, but the issues of being out must be dealt with before a BBW or BHM gets involved. And honestly, I personally as an FFA don't think our problems out in society are that big a deal. The inner stuff, the guilt and feelings of being a monster are what is tough. Dealing with your inner demons is the hard part. Having some jackass stare at you funny is really not a big deal. I know you will say that is easy for me to say because of this that or the other thing, but the truth is I think a lot of FAs know deep down for a long time that they're different even before they know why. And I think closet cases who REALLY seem to care what everyone thinks about them are afraid of it finally being discovered that they are different and don't fit in. The reality is, they never will. They can lie to themselves and everyone else all they want, but we are what we are and nothing will change that. Not really. So, you can be a real man or woman and be who you are, or you can be a coward and leave a wake of broken hearted, disheartened and confused fat people in your wake. (Or you can stay in the closet by yourself -but no one ever seems to choose this option, oh, right, the sex). Being an FA is nowhere near as tough as being a fat person in the world. But it isnt easy either. To be a good, honest, decent FA who isnt selfish or just concerned about getting your sexual needs met it takes a lot of soul searching and you do have to have more of a spine sometimes than your non-FA counterpart. So the ones who have been through it are not going to have a lot of patience for the ones who are too selfish or scared to do the right thing. And at the very least, the right thing can be leaving fat people alone until you have your act together enough to be seen in public with them and introduce them to your family and friends without being embarrassed of them.

I will close with Dr. Ps story hour:

It took me a while to figure out I was an FFA in the sense that I ONLY liked fat (or at least chubby) men. BUT, I always had attractions to bigger guys. I just didnt get that thin guys werent ever going to be as attractive to me, that part took awhile. Now, when I was in high school, for two years, my crush was on a big guy -he was about 325- 350. All my friends knew I liked him. I obviously was not OUT as an FFA, but I didnt make any excuses or apologies for liking the big boy. I got made fun of. I got weird looks. I got questioned and had people try to change my mind. I would just shrug and stand by my position. (I didnt date him in the end, but thats another story). Amazingly, the fact that I would never apologize or explain and that I just kept saying, yes, I like him actually led to my friends eventually accepting it or at least dropping the subject. So, if a 15-16 year old girl who has never heard the term FFA can handle it that way, why should some grown man have a problem? And this was high school where peer approval is everything. And guess what? I survived it. 

*There must be a seance in here, I think I may have just channelled wrestlingguy.


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## mergirl (Aug 30, 2008)

having studied psychology for a few years i have learned that when scientists/psychologists/people of learning havnt quite worked something out yet they say.. there are many variables and its a subjective matter.. 
i feel its a subjective matter with too many variables! lmao
it actually is though..i could say, personally it was because;
my best friend was fat when i was small.
perhaps there was something that clicked with me at some point in my sexual development ie. i had a first feeling of sexual excitement and a fat person just happened to walk past.
maby its cause my mum was pretty strict about diet and being thin and i though "oh gah, how boringly repressive"
it could be that chromosome 128 operates with cromosome ballbag to created a prediliction to being an Fa...
it could be anything..
but i tend to agree with super..i think sometimes its best just to enjoy your sexuality and not worry about where it came from.. but then humans are wee inquisitors..
There has been a psychological study that suggests that we sexualise what has fightened us as kids. 
I wasa talking about this to a friend and i said, well actually i was afraid of being fat when i was a kid.. also my dad was kinna fat and i was scared of him so maby it makes sense..
Though she likes spanking and when she was younger her dad spanked her.. this made her freak out .. and almost ruined the joy she gets from her adult sexuality..
So maby its better just to enjoy it...
but anyway..thats one psychological perspective for fantasy.. it would be interesting if it made sense to anyone..

mergirl


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## EtobicokeFA (Aug 30, 2008)

olwen said:


> There is a huge difference between the FA dealing with liking fat the and fat person dealing with being fat and lacking confidence. The fat person, if they have been fat their entire lives has had for years to deal daily with a constant barrage of insults and abuses both verbal and physical from all sides - family, friends, doctors, teachers and other authority figures, not to mention the media. There's no hiding from that. To be able to gain confidence is difficult in that environment. And even when you manage to be confident it is tested constantly. You can't just tell a fat person to just shut the fuck up and get over a lifetime of abuse and near crippling suffering. As much as I want it to it's not going to happen just like that.
> 
> What abuses are an FA going to suffer on a daily basis because of their sexuality? What's to be awkward about? Whatever it is it cannot compare to the bullshit I or any other fat person has had to put up with and they all know it. It's part of the reason why so many of them feel guilty, and to compare the two is just plain crazy talk. You wanna know who's judging, I'm judging because every fat girl I know who's dated has been thru this at least once confident or no. I'm judging because I was on the receiving end at least once by someone who was supposed to care about me. That's the thing. They may actually care and you want to believe it's true so you put up with a lot of bullshit before you reach a limit. And you are right. It is her fault if she thinks she can make him see otherwise. Silly her thinking the guy who is supposed to care about her will actually care and show it.
> 
> Seems like the FA has to grow a pair before he has the ability to show he cares. He has to grow a pair before he can be sensitive enough to know the difference between the actual sufferring the bbw he's turned on by has been thru because she is fat and the pretend kind he thinks he has suffered thru for liking fat. I fully expect a grown man who can make rent and car payments, holds a job, pays his taxes, votes, and who has the ability to make intelligent choices to be able to deal with his sexuality. I fully expect a high school or college kid who sees that the bbw he likes is being bullied and harassed by her classmates, friends, and family to be sensitive and unselfish enough to know not to add to it. 18 is not to young to know the difference between selfish and unselfish. If an 18 year old can vote and go to war he can damn sure know how to not treat the object of his affection like shit. But for the 18 year old bbw who's been treated like shit her whole life because of her size to know what it's like to be treated like she's special is not something I would expect and it takes that unselfish FA to have a big enough pair to show her the difference.



You had me until the part where you referred the suffering of FAs as imaginary! 

While I will give you the fact that suffering is more extreme as a fat person, that doesn't mean the FA suffering wasn't real. At least when I was growing up. 



> What abuses are an FA going to suffer on a daily basis because of their sexuality? What's to be awkward about?



Basis on what I experienced in my childhood, it would be comparable to what an homosexual suffered when their sexuality became known, in a homo-phobic neighborhood.


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## Maxx Awesome (Aug 30, 2008)

Geez! I really don't know where all this suffering & such came from. I've never had any such experiences.

As to why I like fat women, I think it's my heterosexuality.


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## SilkyAngela (Aug 30, 2008)

I have a strong preference for plus size bodies, both male and female. That's not to say I have no attraction for body types labeled "atheletic" or thin. Just that nine times out of ten, I don't notice the average to thin builds for the bigger folks in the crowd who captivate my attention. :wubu:

I've often wondered why this is and always chalk it up to my environment. Most in my family are bigger than the standard, much bigger I should say. I think this has shaped my perception of what I find attractive.


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## EtobicokeFA (Aug 30, 2008)

Maxx Awesome said:


> Geez! I really don't know where all this suffering & such came from. I've never had any such experiences.
> 
> As to why I like fat women, I think it's my heterosexuality.



Again, a different place and time. Or it could be just my experience. 

Heterosexuality means you like the opposite sex in general. I think you mean sexuality!


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## EtobicokeFA (Aug 30, 2008)

Why do I like BBWs? I can't give a reasonable answer. I can just say that I had an attraction to BBWs, for as long as I notice girls.


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## KHayes666 (Aug 30, 2008)

Maxx Awesome said:


> Geez! I really don't know where all this suffering & such came from. I've never had any such experiences.
> 
> As to why I like fat women, I think it's my heterosexuality.



This has nothing to do with the topic...I';ve already said why I'm an F/A but I just had to rep you for the Big Stevie Cool avatar ;-)


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Aug 30, 2008)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> I am an FFA and for the record a thin one so my only issues in terms of this board are FA issues. I know what we go through. I appreciate when the fat folks on the board are understanding of FA issues, believe me, but* this whole closet issue is not a place where we should be given leeway.*
> 
> I don't think anyone thinks an FA should figure out they're an FA one day and then be completely out, proud, self assured and issue free the next. The detail, the point here is the impact of an FA’s actions on fat people. Not our feelings as FAs, but our actions as we sort it all out. And people are only being hard on FAs who think it is OK to date or sleep with fat people before they are ready to stand up for themselves and their partner. And that can mean something as simple as holding their partner's hand while out in public by the way. Or introducing their partner to their friends. No excuses, or apologies. It's simple decency. Most thin people would never tolerate dating someone who wouldn't take them out in public, or who was afraid to introduce them to their friends, so why should fat people put up with that? Again, I don't think it's wrong for an FA to initially wonder what people will think and how they will deal with all of that, but this must be done before any fat person is asked out on a date. It must. To do otherwise is disrespectful.
> 
> ...



Lol, while I was reading what you typed about "Good FAs" I actually thought of Wrestling Guy  :bow:

And I liked what you said about some of the younger FA's on this board...you are so right and it's a disservice to them for excuses to be handed out simply due to age. 
Some people are fortified enough inside to stand their ground....some are not. It's kind of simple.
That being said....I have to try to flip the coin in the effort of fairness. No excuse making....fairness.
I am not an FFA- I say that because I like thin men even though I like some chubby to fat men. Bi-sizual is a good term for me.
I thought about the times I have dated some fat men....being out in public with them. Two out of the last three dates I have had have been with chubby to fat guys. It doesn't phase me...at all. I actually had to think about this for a bit before it occurred to me that I had "been out with a fat man". That's how important it is to me.......
But then....I'm not thin. I'm not part of the "club" of thin people. I know what it is to be scoffed and made fun of for whatever reason. I can't hide it- though I have tried in the past. I have tried not to actually BE a fat person.....spending years on a diet. 
From my personal experience please let me say that it really IS harder being a fat person than it is to date one. 

Btw, Dr. P- I think the forum is a much better place with you in it. Just wanted to let you know  :bow:




mergirl said:


> having studied psychology for a few years i have learned that when scientists/psychologists/people of learning haven't quite worked something out yet they say.. there are many variables and its a subjective matter..
> i feel its a subjective matter with too many variables! lmao
> it actually is though..i could say, personally it was because;
> my best friend was fat when i was small.
> ...



Funny in the "effort of fairness" again....I think about how I always question my own sexual needs and excitements. I sometimes wonder how sad/wrong it is of me to go to such things.......because if I wonder too much, I have to start thinking of the past and things done to me.....and how much I might like having those things continue. It's frightening and depressing. But I can just say Fuck that....this is where I landed...this is who I am and was meant to be. 
I suppose I am saying that ultimately we have to accept ourselves- Dr P. is so right about that....it's always going to be there. It IS who you are. Stop questioning it......only question those actions that make you hurt others. 
In the end, I am much happier when I do that. 



Maxx Awesome said:


> Geez! I really don't know where all this suffering & such came from. I've never had any such experiences.



"Didn't you know you're my hero? You're everything I would like to be. I can fly higher than an eagle.....you are the wind beneath my wings." 
Now I see where you got your screen name  :bow:


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## olwen (Aug 30, 2008)

EtobicokeFA said:


> You had me until the part where you referred the suffering of FAs as imaginary!
> 
> While I will give you the fact that suffering is more extreme as a fat person, that doesn't mean the FA suffering wasn't real. At least when I was growing up.
> 
> ...



Okay, I don't know what you've been thru because of you attraction to fatness, but I'll tell you what, I would trade a few real live beat downs that includes a busted jaw or a broken rib, or even a hospital stay for a LIFETIME'S worth of sometimes soul crushing abuses with even more to come.


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## EtobicokeFA (Aug 30, 2008)

olwen said:


> Okay, I don't know what you've been thru because of you attraction to fatness, but I'll tell you what, I would trade a few real live beat downs that includes a busted jaw or a broken rib, or even a hospital stay for a LIFETIME'S worth of sometimes soul crushing abuses with even more to come.



And, for your courage to face that lifetime of soul crushing abuse, and still stand up for yourself, I applaud you. 

And, I applaud everyone here that took soul crushing abuse both physical and emotional, and still continued to stand up for themselves.


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## Dr. P Marshall (Aug 30, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Btw, Dr. P- I think the forum is a much better place with you in it. Just wanted to let you know  :bow:



Thanks lady.:bow:


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## Blockierer (Aug 31, 2008)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> .
> 
> Once you get it that you are an FA, you basically have three choices. The first is a life in the closet with no fat partners ever. That has it's own problems. The second is to be out as an FA. That doesn't mean you have to shout it from the roof tops, but it does mean that you live honestly and you treat your fat partner as your partner, all the time, not just when it is convenient. The third way is this sort of half closeted way that has everyone so upset. No matter what an FA may want to believe, if you date or have sex with fat people, but don't treat them the same way you would a thin partner, simply put, you are being a dirtbag. You are.
> .




And for sure the second way is the most confortable, easiest and only honest way for FAs. Do not hide your fat partner that's all what you have to do.


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## Maxx Awesome (Aug 31, 2008)

EtobicokeFA said:


> Heterosexuality means you like the opposite sex in general. I think you mean sexuality!


I think you missed the point of my joke. I'll save us both the embarrassment of having to explain it.


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 1, 2008)

olwen said:


> There is a huge difference between the FA dealing with liking fat the and fat person dealing with being fat and lacking confidence. The fat person, if they have been fat their entire lives has had for years to deal daily with a constant barrage of insults and abuses both verbal and physical from all sides - family, friends, doctors, teachers and other authority figures, not to mention the media. There's no hiding from that. To be able to gain confidence is difficult in that environment. And even when you manage to be confident it is tested constantly. You can't just tell a fat person to just shut the fuck up and get over a lifetime of abuse and near crippling suffering. As much as I want it to it's not going to happen just like that.
> 
> What abuses are an FA going to suffer on a daily basis because of their sexuality? What's to be awkward about? Whatever it is it cannot compare to the bullshit I or any other fat person has had to put up with and they all know it. It's part of the reason why so many of them feel guilty, and to compare the two is just plain crazy talk. You wanna know who's judging, I'm judging because every fat girl I know who's dated has been thru this at least once confident or no. I'm judging because I was on the receiving end at least once by someone who was supposed to care about me. That's the thing. They may actually care and you want to believe it's true so you put up with a lot of bullshit before you reach a limit. And you are right. It is her fault if she thinks she can make him see otherwise. Silly her thinking the guy who is supposed to care about her will actually care and show it.
> 
> Seems like the FA has to grow a pair before he has the ability to show he cares. He has to grow a pair before he can be sensitive enough to know the difference between the actual sufferring the bbw he's turned on by has been thru because she is fat and the pretend kind he thinks he has suffered thru for liking fat. I fully expect a grown man who can make rent and car payments, holds a job, pays his taxes, votes, and who has the ability to make intelligent choices to be able to deal with his sexuality. I fully expect a high school or college kid who sees that the bbw he likes is being bullied and harassed by her classmates, friends, and family to be sensitive and unselfish enough to know not to add to it. 18 is not to young to know the difference between selfish and unselfish. If an 18 year old can vote and go to war he can damn sure know how to not treat the object of his affection like shit. But for the 18 year old bbw who's been treated like shit her whole life because of her size to know what it's like to be treated like she's special is not something I would expect and it takes that unselfish FA to have a big enough pair to show her the difference.



I'm not trying to downplay the problems fat people face on a daily basis. I've been fat my entire life, and I've gotten plently of grief because of it. I would definitely say that the amount of bullshit I get from people would be a lot higher than an FA would, but does that make it okay to neglect the fact that FA's still get their fair share of bullshit? Since when is the 'my problem is worse than yours so yours doesn't matter' mentality okay? 

Not to mention, I think everyone needs to realize that it's not just fat girls that have problems in the dating arena with people being douches. Dating is hard for EVERYONE and there are a lot of guys and girls out there who make terrible boyfriends/girlfriends and hurt people. Yeah, it would be nice if no one was ever a douche but it's not going to happen. Some people are assholes, and some aren't..FA's or not. That's life. I mean, I could take your words of "I'm judging because I was on the receiving end at least once by someone who was supposed to care about me" and apply that to nearly anything in life. I've been screwed over by FA guys, guys who weren't FA's, best friends, coworkers, classmates, family members, teachers, bosses, etc. etc. I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that this guy was an FA..maybe he was just a plain old douche? It just seems like you're holding FA's up to a higher standard than everyone else, which I don't get. 

In a perfect world FA's wouldn't have a hard time coming out of the closet. But, we don't live in a perfect world. In reality, I can see where it would be a difficult thing to do and although I think it's necessary I don't think any of us can judge a guy for not coming out yet.



Dr. P Marshall said:


> [ All reference to "you" is meant in the general sense. This is not directed at thatgirl08, merely addressing the issues her post brought up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree with a lot of what you said. My main point is that we don't have the right to judge people based on when they come out of the closet. I do agree though that an F/FA shouldn't get involved with someone if they aren't ready to be out. Of course it's survivable...there are a lot of things that are survivable but not easy. I'm just trying to acknowledge the fact that I realize coming to terms with yourself isn't always an easy process and having other "out" people telling you you're a horrible person for not being out as well, doesn't help the situation. A little sympathy never killed anyone.


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## Mack27 (Sep 1, 2008)

On the original topic: I've thought about this a lot, and I've read what I could find on early childhood sexual imprinting. There are a lot of theories out there, like someone else posted here, its thought that children sexualize what frightened them earlier in life. I'd go a step further than that and say that things that children repress resurface sexualized later in life. A 4 year old gets spanked and should naturally feel animosity towards the spanker, but the child loves the spanker, the child relies on the spanker for everything, the animosity gets repressed and resurfaces years later as a spanking fetish. This would be true for quiet, introverted children. Loud extroverted children would act out on there feelings in a million different ways the same day, so no repression.

My parents were about as anti-fat as you could get. At the same time I had a grandparent and aunts who were very fat. These women loved me and I loved them back. I remember not liking it when my parents would make disparaging remarks about their appearance. Rebelling against my parents could be part of it I guess, but I think its more about repressing my feelings of animosity towards my parents because of how they talked about my grandmother and aunts. These feelings emerged later sexualized. To this day a woman my parents would call a "fat pig" is a huge turn on. Those stories where a woman is called a "fat pig" and is turned on by it are enormously erotic to me. 

I don't know this stuff for a fact, but its what I think is most likely.

But hey, maybe there is a genetic component too.


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## Dr. P Marshall (Sep 1, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> I'm just trying to acknowledge the fact that I realize coming to terms with yourself isn't always an easy process and having other "out" people telling you you're a horrible person for not being out as well, doesn't help the situation. A little sympathy never killed anyone.



Yes, I get what you're saying. I have great sympathy for FAs coming out. And I definitely have sympathy for FAs wrestling with all of the deepest darkest issues. Trust me, I had a rough time sometimes, I really did. But what I don't have sympathy for, and many others will agree with me about this I think, is being indifferent to other people's feelings while you do come to terms with things. You still have the choice over WHAT YOU DO. You can't help how you feel, but you can always control what you do and if you are going to do things that hurt other people, such as taking on a relationship you're not really ready to be in, that is not really ever OK. I personally don't care if someone wants to stay in the closet for the rest of their life as long as they don't toy with the feelings of a BBW or BHM while they do so. That's the point. Not about being in the closet or not, but about wanting it both ways, to be in the closet, but to also enjoy sex with a fat person. That's just using someone any way you slice it.


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 1, 2008)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> Yes, I get what you're saying. I have great sympathy for FAs coming out. And I definitely have sympathy for FAs wrestling with all of the deepest darkest issues. Trust me, I had a rough time sometimes, I really did. But what I don't have sympathy for, and many others will agree with me about this I think, is being indifferent to other people's feelings while you do come to terms with things. You still have the choice over WHAT YOU DO. You can't help how you feel, but you can always control what you do and if you are going to do things that hurt other people, such as taking on a relationship you're not really ready to be in, that is not really ever OK. I personally don't care if someone wants to stay in the closet for the rest of their life as long as they don't toy with the feelings of a BBW or BHM while they do so. That's the point. Not about being in the closet or not, but about wanting it both ways, to be in the closet, but to also enjoy sex with a fat person. That's just using someone any way you slice it.



Yeah, I agree. It's not okay to trample everyone else on your way to self acceptance.


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## TotallyReal (Sep 1, 2008)

I think it is wildly different depending on the FA. I didn't like fat girls until 8th grade, for example, while many FAs liked them from the moment they knew what liking was. Other FAs slowly became FAs over time. Ultimately, while I know there are some dudes out there who seek a Unified FA Theory, it's just not going to happen. Just relax and enjoy it :cool5:


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## olwen (Sep 1, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> I'm not trying to downplay the problems fat people face on a daily basis. I've been fat my entire life, and I've gotten plently of grief because of it. I would definitely say that the amount of bullshit I get from people would be a lot higher than an FA would, but does that make it okay to neglect the fact that FA's still get their fair share of bullshit? Since when is the 'my problem is worse than yours so yours doesn't matter' mentality okay?
> 
> Not to mention, I think everyone needs to realize that it's not just fat girls that have problems in the dating arena with people being douches. Dating is hard for EVERYONE and there are a lot of guys and girls out there who make terrible boyfriends/girlfriends and hurt people. Yeah, it would be nice if no one was ever a douche but it's not going to happen. Some people are assholes, and some aren't..FA's or not. That's life. I mean, I could take your words of "I'm judging because I was on the receiving end at least once by someone who was supposed to care about me" and apply that to nearly anything in life. I've been screwed over by FA guys, guys who weren't FA's, best friends, coworkers, classmates, family members, teachers, bosses, etc. etc. I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that this guy was an FA..maybe he was just a plain old douche? It just seems like you're holding FA's up to a higher standard than everyone else, which I don't get.
> 
> ...



TG8, I do hear what you're saying - judge not lest you be judged and all that, but the reality is that there are too many "FAs" who don't wait to figure themselves out before they inflict themselves on others. I think I'm older than you are by at least ten years. I've had more time to have more damage done to me than you have. You get older and you start to loose your patience. I'm just out of patience at the moment. It's not that my problems are worse so their's don't matter, what I'm saying is that where the closeted FA's see problems, I do not. Sure we all move at different paces, but you know I just don't have time to wait for the person who wants to be with me to catch up to me mentally and emotionally. It's a waste of my time.

Sure dating is hard for everyone, but consider that if you were a thin woman who had been raped you'd be a little wary of men after that. I'm not saying what closeted FA's put us thru is akin to rape, but there is emotional damage that you still have to deal with isn't there? To say some people are just assholes so deal with it doesn't sit right with me. But I am dealing with it - by having zero tolerance for a closeted guy who wants to still try to be with me. Am I holding FA's up to a higher standard by expecting them to be decent human beings? No. We should all be decent human beings. It's the same kind of courtesy I'd expect a non FA to have for the object of his/her desire - Don't be a douche. It's not that hard.


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## Dr. P Marshall (Sep 1, 2008)

olwen said:


> Don't be a douche. It's not that hard.



See? THIS is why I have a girl crush on you.:wubu:


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## olwen (Sep 1, 2008)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> See? THIS is why I have a girl crush on you.:wubu:



You're so cool Brewster. :*




you get extra kisses if you can guess what movie that line is from.


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## thatgirl08 (Sep 1, 2008)

olwen said:


> TG8, I do hear what you're saying - judge not lest you be judged and all that, but the reality is that there are too many "FAs" who don't wait to figure themselves out before they inflict themselves on others. I think I'm older than you are by at least ten years. I've had more time to have more damage done to me than you have. You get older and you start to loose your patience. I'm just out of patience at the moment. It's not that my problems are worse so their's don't matter, what I'm saying is that where the closeted FA's see problems, I do not. Sure we all move at different paces, but you know I just don't have time to wait for the person who wants to be with me to catch up to me mentally and emotionally. It's a waste of my time.
> 
> Sure dating is hard for everyone, but consider that if you were a thin woman who had been raped you'd be a little wary of men after that. I'm not saying what closeted FA's put us thru is akin to rape, but there is emotional damage that you still have to deal with isn't there? To say some people are just assholes so deal with it doesn't sit right with me. But I am dealing with it - by having zero tolerance for a closeted guy who wants to still try to be with me. Am I holding FA's up to a higher standard by expecting them to be decent human beings? No. We should all be decent human beings. It's the same kind of courtesy I'd expect a non FA to have for the object of his/her desire - Don't be a douche. It's not that hard.



I totally get what you're saying, and I realize that a lot of closeted guys do take advantage of fat girls and don't treat them like they should but I don't think everyone should go around assuming that ALL closeted or confused or unsure FA's are like that. I'd like to give people the benefit of the doubt.


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## olwen (Sep 1, 2008)

thatgirl08 said:


> I totally get what you're saying, and I realize that a lot of closeted guys do take advantage of fat girls and don't treat them like they should but I don't think everyone should go around assuming that ALL closeted or confused or unsure FA's are like that. I'd like to give people the benefit of the doubt.



You're just a lot nicer than I am in this regard. I suppose it's good that someone is. I'm just done. The next guy I meet needs to put up or shut up. That's about all the tolerance that's left in me right now.


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## T_Devil (Sep 1, 2008)

I think that closet cases just need to ask themselves the right questions. I think they need to learn what those questions are and how they apply to them. Then based on their own answers, they can begin the wonderful journey of self-acceptance.


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## juniper (Sep 1, 2008)

Okay, I tried to read this thread from start to finish, but at some point there were just too many words..

Someone said they'd only ever had one girl ask them why they like big girls. I think I have asked every guy who's shown an interest in me, and I was hoping to find an answer in this thread, but it's still kind of cloudy.

I do not believe liking fat girls is a cause. T-devil said " I guess everybody can't be as proud as me even though they are but they just choose to not show it (way to support a cause guys!)". This is the only thing I copied coz it truly made me feel like a charity. Excuse me, but I don't need the support from FAs, because I'm having such a hard time being accepted myself, I'm a grown up person, and I can yell at or ignore assholes myself, tyvm.

Thing is though, I want respect, and I don't want respect just because I have a fat belly. Saying you like Fat Girls and that's the only thing you're ever gonna do, is like saying you'll never drink orange juice again ever, if you tasted some that was off (yes, eww, I know). 

My ex boyfriend has dated mostly fat girls, but even they came in all shapes and sizes. He was attracted to the whole package, not just my belly. 

When I was about twelve, I told myself I would never sleep with a guy with longer hair than mine. I continue to break that promise, and sometimes I feel it's weird I have a preference for guys with long hair. But that doesn't mean I suddenly didn't love my ex anymore when he showed up at my door with his hair cut very short. 

I refuse to conform to this idea that the BBW and FA world is this sort of subsociety and you only belong to it, if you only like fat people or are one yourself. This is not a society, it's a forum, there is no bbw scene where I am from, and I have so much trouble finding nice clothes to fit into, and I'm only a size 20/22. There are no meetups, no special parties, nothing. 

I EXPECT a guy who likes me to be insecure about it, because that's the way the world works. Everything out of the ordinary needs consideration. It is scary what you don't know. That is exactly why people in Australia objected to the build of a Muslim school saying "these people blow shit up".

I am insecure about it, because for 22 years I was raised with the idea that was too fat and no one would ever be attracted to me. My father said to me: "I guess there are some guys who find being able to talk to the person more important than physical attraction". Umm.

If a guy calls himself a FA (and surely I doubt he does, he will just say he likes big girls) but has also dated skinnier girls, why does that make him a fraud? I have dated guys with short hair...

I'm not a cause, I''m not a charity, I just want someone to like everything about me, including my insecurities and even on the days I want to get a butcher's knife and cut off my belly.

Thanks.

Just one more thing. I don't believe there is or should be something like A TRUE FA. It makes me feel cheap. It makes me feel I'm only good for those people because I am fat. I honestly don't like the term, and the acronym always sounds like fat ass to me. If someone chooses to socialise only with fat women because they are a "true fat admirer", they just seem shallow to me.


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## Victim (Sep 1, 2008)

That would make him bi-sizual, or to put it another way, just liking women whatever size or shape they may be. I'd like to say I'm wired this way because it sounds more accepting, but I'm not. There are some thin women I'd find sexy, and even one I had a fascination with, but the reality is I'm an FA for life.


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## juniper (Sep 1, 2008)

Victim said:


> There are some thin women I'd find sexy, and even one I had a fascination with, but the reality is I'm an FA for life.



I'm sorry, but you do exactly what I meant. You make it sound almost political.


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## Victim (Sep 1, 2008)

Like I said, it would make me more accepting of others if I was bi-sizual. I can't change who I am, and wouldn't really want to anyway. If that's political then I guess I have to accept that too. 

I've been with my wife for over 20 years now, and I hope I will spend the rest of my life with her. She is everything I want. That's really the only 'political' statement I need to make to the world.


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## juniper (Sep 1, 2008)

Excuse my possible bluntness, but why do you have to call yourself an FA in the first place, why can't you just say you admire your wife (as you did in the last post).

I guess I just don't like being labeled. Because if you (in general) label something, you automatically define that label, and make that label something people should conform to, or they're not the real deal.


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## olwen (Sep 1, 2008)

juniper said:


> Okay, I tried to read this thread from start to finish, but at some point there were just too many words..
> 
> Someone said they'd only ever had one girl ask them why they like big girls. I think I have asked every guy who's shown an interest in me, and I was hoping to find an answer in this thread, but it's still kind of cloudy.
> 
> ...



You want a guy who likes you to be unsure about whether he likes you? Huh? 

We're not talking here about having a guy respect a fat girl because of the size of her belly, we're talking about respect period. Belly size shouldn't have a thing to do with it and that's the point closeted FAs don't get. 

You are not a charity case, no fat person should be a charity case, but there are a lot of people who feel that way. There are plenty of men who think that fat girls should be grateful for any type of attention they give them even if that means treating them like shit to do it and that's the problem. That kind of attitude and behavior is disrespectful.

A guy who likes skinny girls and fat girls isn't a fraudulent FA, the ones who are frauds are the ones who say they like fat girls and don't treat them with respect, but they will treat the skinny ones with respect. That is messed up.

A true FA is no different from a true skinny admirer. If you were thin would you say that you wouldn't want to date a man who only found thin girls attractive? Would you still feel cheap? The FA's who only want to have sex with you and nothing else are the ones who definitely will make you feel cheap. This whole issue isn't about true FAs vs whatever, it's about FA's treating the fat girls they do want to be with, with respect.


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## mergirl (Sep 1, 2008)

cheers Olwen.. 

i had a big response in my head but had to go lie down for a bit cause i have cramps and when i came back you had pretty much covered it!
I think, only when people have true respect for themselves can they really realise that others could will and should respect them too.
I was going to say too..I feel bad when i hear big women saying they wouldnt like to date Fa's cause they would only want them for thier fat, cause its just not true. Fa is just a term. I consider myself an "Fa" .. Fa doesnt mean -someone who will fuck anyone who is fat and only because they are fat. Of course there are a minority of total shallow pricks but you get that in all areas of society. Personality goes a long way and, personally, if your personality sucks it doesnt matter how fat/hot or anything else physical you are, you can hit the road!


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## T_Devil (Sep 1, 2008)

juniper said:


> I do not believe liking fat girls is a cause. T-devil said " I guess everybody can't be as proud as me even though they are but they just choose to not show it (way to support a cause guys!)". This is the only thing I copied coz it truly made me feel like a charity. Excuse me, but I don't need the support from FAs, because I'm having such a hard time being accepted myself, I'm a grown up person, and I can yell at or ignore assholes myself, tyvm.



So you're going to take *ONE* thing I said (out of EVERYTHING I have said) and blow it all out of proportion and use it to chastise ME?? Ok you know what? You're _not_ a charity. Good for you! Wonderful, I'm proud of you. I would be offended too if *I* were *you* and *I* thought *I* was talking about *me*.

I WASN'T!
_
(what does that even mean???)_

I was talking about little thing called SIZE ACCEPTANCE, I guess I should have mentioned that. Believe me, If I thought someone would have taken that *ONE SINGLE STATEMENT* and made such a big fucking stink out of it, I would have! I'm not yelling at assholes for you.... I'm yelling at them for myself.

You don't know me. You haven taken the time to get to know me. You haven't read my blog and until you have done so, don't think you can sit there and tell ME what I meant.


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## Chimpi (Sep 1, 2008)

You seem to suggest, T Devil, that the way you feel is the way everyone should (and possibly does) feel. Why is that?

You said that one, single statement (along with many others). She was affected by it. It happens. I'm actually shocked that you're fighting fire with napalm.

*EDIT:* On topic - Mack27, thank you for your post. I never really looked at the situation that way and I'm glad someone brought up something that has challenged my thoughts. I shall let your post sit with me for a while, analyzing and thinking. Where I might not share the same happenings and courses from my past, it's still very intriguing and a very possible possibility.
(Sarcastic remark: or should I not be affected by what you said, seeing as how it's possible to offend me or you. Oh wait, that's right! Others' words can affect me or other people, directly and indirectly!  )


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## mergirl (Sep 1, 2008)

Chimpi said:


> You seem to suggest, T Devil, that the way you feel is the way everyone should (and possibly does) feel.  Why is that?
> 
> You said that one, single statement (along with many others). She was affected by it. It happens. I'm actually shocked that you're fighting fire with napalm.
> 
> ...


on here i usually feel i'm fighting water with a sponge, or that i'm on acid.


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## Victim (Sep 1, 2008)

Liking fat girls isn't a cause, it's part of my lifestyle. Defending your lifestyle so that you may continue to pursue it without being hated, ridiculed, or denied what you deserve, now THAT is a cause.


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## mergirl (Sep 1, 2008)

Victim said:


> Liking fat girls isn't a cause, it's part of my lifestyle. Defending your lifestyle so that you may continue to pursue it without being hated, ridiculed, or denied what you deserve, now THAT is a cause.


brilliant! burn this message on your retinas people!


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## T_Devil (Sep 1, 2008)

Chimpi said:


> You seem to suggest, T Devil, that the way you feel is the way everyone should (and possibly does) feel. Why is that?
> 
> You said that one, single statement (along with many others). She was affected by it. It happens. I'm actually shocked that you're fighting fire with napalm.



Shouldn't be, I kill files with sledge hammers all the time. I don't tell people how to think. They choose to think however they want. Make no mistake, I don't seek to control minds. I have strong beliefs because that is how I was raised. If you believe in something, then believe in it. 

How I think everybody should feel? I don't care about how other people feel. They agree, fine, if they don't, fuck 'em, they are not allowed to dine with me (I don't believe in arguments at the dinner table).

I will not allow someone to take a statement of mine and twist it into a weapon against me. If a person doesn't want to feel like a charity, fine, don't. But don't accuse me thinking that in the first place, especially if you don't really know what it is I'm talking about. I get pissed when people try to accuse me of things I'm not only not guilty of, but I actually have zero interest in to begin with.

So when somebody says something like "_the way you feel is the way everyone should (and possibly does) feel_" is misleading. Like I have an agenda that is more than just having an opinion? I don't assign a person an opinion. I have feelings, yes. I have beliefs, yes. Not everybody shares those feelings and beliefs. Fine. They believe what they believe and even if I feel it's wrong, they are entitled to feel whatever they want.

I know I don't like being told what to feel, so I try and extend the same courtesy, but, if people get the wrong impression and assume anything else and try and attack me with it, bet your ass I'm blasting back! 

Disagree with me all you want. Fine. But don't make me into something I'm not. I don't take kindly to that. I don't take kindly to that at all.



Victim said:


> Liking fat girls isn't a cause, it's part of my lifestyle. Defending your lifestyle so that you may continue to pursue it without being hated, ridiculed, or denied what you deserve, now THAT is a cause.



I wish I would have said that! Rep to you!


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## juniper (Sep 2, 2008)

T_Devil said:


> So you're going to take *ONE* thing I said (out of EVERYTHING I have said) and blow it all out of proportion and use it to chastise ME?? Ok you know what? You're _not_ a charity. Good for you! Wonderful, I'm proud of you. I would be offended too if *I* were *you* and *I* thought *I* was talking about *me*.



Wait, wait, wait. I used your comment as an example, because, as Chimpi said, I was very affected by it. I am sorry if you saw it as an attack on you personally, it wasn't meant to be.

I still am, however, very annoyed with the fact that fat people are treated differently from thin people, and partaking in this division, by calling their beliefs a cause, or a society, or a subculture, or whatever.



olwen said:


> You want a guy who likes you to be unsure about whether he likes you? Huh?



I don't want him to be, I expect him to be, as in, I assume that he is insecure about it.



olwen said:


> *A true FA is no different from a true skinny admirer. If you were thin would you say that you wouldn't want to date a man who only found thin girls attractive? Would you still feel cheap?* The FA's who only want to have sex with you and nothing else are the ones who definitely will make you feel cheap. This whole issue isn't about true FAs vs whatever, it's about FA's treating the fat girls they do want to be with, with respect.



Definitely! I would hate to be in a relationship where I'd have to watch everything I do and eat because I might gain a little weight. I've seen a girl go anorexic because she kept thinking she wasn't skinny enough and her boyfriend liked her that way so did nothing to prevent it.

The thing I really want to say is, I know some people here say you should shout from the rooftops that you're an FA, but I personally, really don't think that's necessary. Because, you know, you really don't have to justify it, and it should speak for itself. So give no explanations, you don't have to warn people you might bring home a fat chick, just do it. I'm a normal person too you know.


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## Dr. P Marshall (Sep 2, 2008)

Nevermind.


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## mergirl (Sep 2, 2008)

but but but..
even for the sake of easyness.. we should say we are Fa because then we can all get together (like we are here) and talk about issues that effect us (positive and negative).
You wouldnt say to a gay person "you dont have to say your gay, just go out with someone of the same sex" and even more offensive, that its not necessary to shout it from the rooftops! 
maby if YOU were an Fa You would find it necessary! Perhaps you would like to talk about what you go through as an Fa with others who will understand. Think about it.. You say that Fat people get hassle all the time, then obviously that must affect thier partners!? and thats just one example.
Dont say something is wrong just because you have no concept of it..open your mind and you might find the world isnt flat after all.

mer- Fa on the rooftops shouting


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## Victim (Sep 2, 2008)

It is a subculture. Any group that feels removed from society as a whole for whatever reason is going to seek out like minded people. We support each other and share our lives on here because we CAN. 

We lend strength when we are feeling strong. We come for strength when we are feeling weak. 

We come here because we are welcome.


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## juniper (Sep 2, 2008)

People, please, I am just responding to the bashing of those you call closet FAs. 

What's so bad about someone who likes big girls (or big guys for that matter) but doesn't make a big deal out of it? 

There are these five kinds of FA someone uttered and for some people only the first one seems to make you a true FA, I am just disagreeing with that, and saying that if someone is not sure about it, or doesn't feel comfortable with it, they are treated as if their frauds or should get their shit together before they do some sort of living. Please, just stop the labeling.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Sep 2, 2008)

juniper said:


> People, please, I am just responding to the bashing of those you call closet FAs.
> 
> What's so bad about someone who likes big girls (or big guys for that matter) but doesn't make a big deal out of it?
> 
> There are these five kinds of FA someone uttered and for some people only the first one seems to make you a true FA, I am just disagreeing with that, and saying that if someone is not sure about it, or doesn't feel comfortable with it, they are treated as if their frauds or should get their shit together before they do some sort of living. Please, just stop the labeling.



You are aware that the closet FAs that people bash are the ones who will hook up with a fat girl behind closed doors but refuse to be seen with her in public and where any friends or family might see. 

I'm terribly sorry, but if you don't have an issue with that behavior, I don't know what else to tell you. 

No one has an issue with people who don't run around screaming about their fatty love 24/7 because well, no one does that. It's dumb. 

Sooo, one person comes up with some 5 Points of FA bullshit to justify their behavior and you're going to base this entire size acceptance thing on that?

I know! Let's coddle people who are ashamed of their preferences! I mean, it's not like they're not trampling over real people while doing this because they're afraid to be seen with the 'orrible fat person. Good form! :wubu:


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## juniper (Sep 2, 2008)

I'm not justifying that behaviour! 

Never mind.

edit. I mean, I agree with you totally that people who are ashamed to be seen with their partner shouldn't be with that person. I have just been saying all along, that I understand it if someone's insecure about dating a fat person, and that maybe it would help if fat people stopped advocating they are a community or a society. Because fat people are normal people too right? So it should be normal to date a big person, thus no one needs to make a big deal about it.

But unfortunately, in the world, and certainly in my area of the world, fat people are not accepted in society, I've been in other parts of the world, I speak from experience, and thus it makes sense to me that the guys around here will be what you call closet FAs, or worse, don't date fat girls at all.


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## Mack27 (Sep 2, 2008)

I didn't have the courage to introduce a fat woman I was dating to my parents until my 30s. They were always so anti-fat always saying mean and disparaging things to fat relatives right to their face! They had a hard time understanding my preference, especially since I don't ONLY like fat women. But I found out they'd rather see me with a fat woman than not see me at all. Friends can be weird about me liking fat girls too, I never hid it from them, but they get over it really quickly. Except for this one guy I knew in the guard, he said liking fat girls was worse than being gay, he would never let up on the "moo" noises and stuff like that. I wonder to this day if he was a closet FA.


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## beginner FA (Sep 2, 2008)

I agree with the notion that someone in a relationship should not let their insecurities influence their behaviour. But I do empathise with the single FAs who worry about not being accepted for who they are: I've been there and its not fun. 

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to the thread so far.


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## T_Devil (Sep 2, 2008)

Mack27 said:


> ... this one guy I knew in the guard, he said liking fat girls was worse than being gay, he would never let up on the "moo" noises and stuff like that. I wonder to this day if he was a closet FA.



Nah, he's just an Asshole. 
Or he's Gay. 
Or he's a Gay Asshole.

Closet case FA self hater.... perhaps. 
But the one thing he is for sure, is an asshole. I had a friend like that once. I told him "_If you are EVER rude to a fat girl in my presence ever again, I will knock your dick in the dirt. I'm not fuckin' kidding._"
He knew I wasn't afraid of smashing him right in the face either, I mean we've had our scraps in the past (that's how we ended up being friends). What he did in my presence reflected on me. It's like dropping a bucket of paint, when you drop it, paint doesn't just land where you dropped the bucket, it goes all over the place, splattering everybody.

Bad attitudes are the same way. 

We quit hanging out. He got a girlfriend and he does his thing. I have my wife and we do our thing. Sometimes those we see as friends, don't always stay friends. It's a sad part of life, but sometimes it's necessary and it can be inevitable if the difference in opinion is just too great.


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## Chimpi (Sep 2, 2008)

juniper, I totally get what you're saying.


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## hardestlittlebutton (Sep 2, 2008)

My boyfriend explained it to me this way:

You know how some men are ass men, some men are tit men? Well, the way the breast is soft and appealing to the touch, that's how he likes the REST of the body to feel, too.


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## Mathias (Sep 2, 2008)

I've never really questioned it because I never felt like I needed to. It is what it is, and makes me happy. That's my perspective.


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## No-No-Badkitty (Sep 2, 2008)

T_Devil said:


> Get your priorities together before you want to enter an ADULT RELATIONSHIP. Training wheels are off. If they fuck it up now, somone's going to get hurt. I just rather it's not the girl left crying and confused because some asshole can't get his fuckin' shit together.





A little off topic here....but I have to comment.

You rock. You absolutely rock. 
When I was growing up as a fat chick, it was politically incorrect to be fat (more so than it is now) and I was constantly ridiculed put on starvation diets (that nearly killed me but I never lost weight) etc. as the world tried to make me conform and I was scared into thinking I was some hidious creature that didn't deserve to see the light of day.
I SO wish that MORE men like you had been around then or at least out in the open about being FA!
Thank you. You SO ROCK...
And guys...as a fat chick, I am here to tell you this...there is NOTHING more sexy (no matter the size of the guy) than a guy who wants you for who you are and I mean WANTS you. Tell us. Touch us. Let us know that we are beautiful.
The only thing I regret is that it took me YEARS of wasted youth to realize that I wasn't the one that needed to change...it was the world that needed to change


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## olwen (Sep 2, 2008)

juniper said:


> .....I still am, however, very annoyed with the fact that fat people are treated differently from thin people, and partaking in this division, by calling their beliefs a cause, or a society, or a subculture, or whatever.
> 
> 
> 
> ...







juniper said:


> People, please, I am just responding to the bashing of those you call closet FAs.
> 
> What's so bad about someone who likes big girls (or big guys for that matter) but doesn't make a big deal out of it?
> 
> There are these five kinds of FA someone uttered and for some people only the first one seems to make you a true FA, I am just disagreeing with that, and saying that if someone is not sure about it, or doesn't feel comfortable with it, they are treated as if their frauds or should get their shit together before they do some sort of living. Please, just stop the labeling.





juniper said:


> I'm not justifying that behaviour!
> 
> Never mind.
> 
> ...



Juniper, I get where you're coming from - if we expect to be treated like everybody else then we should act like we are like everybody else and not compartimentalize ourselves. Yes? To that I say yes and no. Yes I am like everybody else in that I am human, but no I am not like a thin person when I can't fit into that one seat on the bus or the airplane, or when I can't walk as fast as my skinny friends, or when the doctor's office doesn't have a gown in my size or when the nurse doesn't know how to take my blood pressure with that tiny cuff or when the job interviewer assumes I'm diabetic and sees me as a liability before I even shake her hand and say hello. 

Wanting a man to treat me with respect is asking him to treat me normally. Why should I expect to get less than what a thin person gets?  Expecting him to be unsure about whether he wants to be seen with me is like expecting to breathe thin air at sea level. It won't sustain me. This is a bit different from expecting every man I meet to love me instantly. That takes time, but giving respect should not. That's all I'm asking for and I shouldn't have to ask. I shouldn't have to be suspect. 

There's absolutely nothing wrong with an FA not making a big deal about being an FA and that is the whole point. An FA shouldn't need to justify his sexuality to anyone, but the one who vacillates and is unsure and confused is certainly trying to justify it not only to himself, but to everyone else. An FA doesn't have to shout if from the rooftops, but he does have to be ready to defend himself without apology. That's what counts. He just has to be unafraid. He looks down on that fear by just living his life.

Look, the guy who can be with me without looking to fight every anonymous joe schmo who stares or teases, ect is doing it right because he is comfortable with himself and with me and because he believes that nothing is out of the ordinary, cause it isn't. But when the time comes for him to have to defend him and me (like when his family or his friends decides to give him shit when he just shows up with a fat woman like he would with a thin woman) I expect him to be willing and able to do so (tho he wouldn't have to with a thin women). That defense could be simply stating we're together and that there will be no discussion about it if someone asks, or shouting down his family members if they get in his face, or by walking away from the friends who won't respect his choices. A closeted FA wouldn't do any of those things. I ask why the hell not? "Because it's hard" just isn't a good enough answer. 

All that being said, having a community to turn to when in doubt makes you feel less alone and isolated. When people struggle they need to be able to band together to deal with whatever it is they are dealing with. (otherwise there'd have been no women's movement or civil rights movement or gay pride movement). How strong is an army of one? Perhaps if the blokes in your part of the world had a community to join with they'd be more empowered and less insecure. In that regard I am glad that a place like Dims exists. As much as I am bothered by the fact that people struggle with their attraction to what to me is not so horrible and shocking, it is good for them to have a place to go to learn that they aren't alone in their struggle and that there are people who can offer solutions. 




mergirl said:


> but but but..
> even for the sake of easyness.. we should say we are Fa because then we can all get together (like we are here) and talk about issues that effect us (positive and negative).
> You wouldnt say to a gay person "you dont have to say your gay, just go out with someone of the same sex" and even more offensive, that its not necessary to shout it from the rooftops!
> maby if YOU were an Fa You would find it necessary! Perhaps you would like to talk about what you go through as an Fa with others who will understand. Think about it.. You say that Fat people get hassle all the time, then obviously that must affect thier partners!? and thats just one example.
> ...



So when do we get that fat pride parade?


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 2, 2008)

hardestlittlebutton said:


> My boyfriend explained it to me this way:
> 
> You know how some men are ass men, some men are tit men? Well, the way the breast is soft and appealing to the touch, that's how he likes the REST of the body to feel, too.



I have seen/heard it explained this way, too.......if nothing else, fat girls are soft


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## mergirl (Sep 3, 2008)

juniper said:


> People, please, I am just responding to the bashing of those you call closet FAs.
> 
> What's so bad about someone who likes big girls (or big guys for that matter) but doesn't make a big deal out of it?
> 
> There are these five kinds of FA someone uttered and for some people only the first one seems to make you a true FA, I am just disagreeing with that, and saying that if someone is not sure about it, or doesn't feel comfortable with it, they are treated as if their frauds or should get their shit together before they do some sort of living. Please, just stop the labeling.


cause there is a difference between "not making a big deal out of something" and plain rejecting it. If You wouldnt mind a guy being ok with fucking you behind closed doors but never introducing you to friends or family then thats cool.. you can be with peeps like that. Personally i wouldnt just NOT be with them i would probs cut chop thier balls off! (and if a woman then clit).. erm i think i'm being too graphic now though..
This is why i find it difficult to accept people in the Fa closet, cause the more people that hide the less visable we are.
Anyway, i think this feels like picking on juniper now..the point has been made and its done and dusted.

xmer


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## mergirl (Sep 3, 2008)

HEY and you know what olwen.. i think we SHOULD get a "fat pride parade"!!!! that would be so much fun!!! 
Whoot! You bring the cocktails in a plastic glass and i'll re-enforce the floats!!! yay!!:happy:


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## Victim (Sep 3, 2008)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> Nevermind.



I just noticed this now.

I didn't think it was possible to hold you speechless. :shocked:


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## altered states (Sep 3, 2008)

I used to wonder, but I stopped researching a while ago, mostly because I kept hitting dead ends and decided other aspects of my psyche maybe needed more attention. I never found any satisfactory answers as to why someone is an FA or not. I was surprised at how little there was written on the subject, like, nearly nothing. That includes feederism, which surprises me even more. I don't want to reignite the old preference/fetish debate, but I believe for me there's more than a bit of fetish in my FAness. I say that only because beyond just being attracted to fat women, I also have fairly intense, not-ready-for-prime-time feeder yearnings that are all tied up with my more "normal" FA behavior. Yet take any of the factors which could imaginably have caused me to become an FA and/or feeder (if one believes in psychoanalysis in the first place) and I'll show you someone with identical factors who didn't. So maybe it is genetic, or a combination. I can honestly say I don't care, as I never felt burdened by my preferences, and in a way I'm proud that my tastes are outside the social norm.


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## altered states (Sep 3, 2008)

juniper said:


> People, please, I am just responding to the bashing of those you call closet FAs.
> 
> What's so bad about someone who likes big girls (or big guys for that matter) but doesn't make a big deal out of it?
> 
> There are these five kinds of FA someone uttered and for some people only the first one seems to make you a true FA, I am just disagreeing with that, and saying that if someone is not sure about it, or doesn't feel comfortable with it, they are treated as if their frauds or should get their shit together before they do some sort of living. Please, just stop the labeling.



I agree, and as people are individuals there's really no right fit for everyone. On Davoid's scale I'm a "3" - many people who know me very well know I'm an FA and those who don't, don't. That doesn't mean I'm ashamed of who I am at all. I don't talk about sexuality (at least in a serious way) with casual friends and any of my relatives, so why is it important for them to know what turns me on? And if we're assuming fat women are no different from thinner women except for the size and shape of their bodies, then that's what fat is for me, a turn on. I don't feel bad about myself for not putting my sexual turn-ons on a t-shirt or letting the world know my identity through a forum like this one. On the other hand, no disrespect to those who do. I'm just not comfortable being "out" in that way, and that's fairly consistent with other aspects of my life that have nothing to do with being an FA.


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## Dr. P Marshall (Sep 3, 2008)

Victim said:


> I just noticed this now.
> 
> I didn't think it was possible to hold you speechless. :shocked:



HAHA! Yes, I would say the awarding of some sort of medal is in order.


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## mergirl (Sep 3, 2008)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> HAHA! Yes, I would say the awarding of some sort of medal is in order.


i was very very proud of you..a strong, dignified silence is sometimes all you need to say..
If i were more computer literate i would post a big pic of a medal for you!!
someone.. please??
xx


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 3, 2008)

mergirl said:


> i was very very proud of you..a strong, dignified silence is sometimes all you need to say..
> If i were more computer literate i would post a big pic of a medal for you!!
> someone.. please??
> xx


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## Dr. P Marshall (Sep 3, 2008)

mergirl said:


> i was very very proud of you..a strong, dignified silence is sometimes all you need to say..
> If i were more computer literate i would post a big pic of a medal for you!!
> someone.. please??
> xx





Green Eyed Fairy said:


>



Aww shucks. Thanks.:blush:


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## Ernest Nagel (Sep 3, 2008)

beginner FA said:


> I have never been able to quite put my finger on why im an FA and im starting to think its one of those things u can't put ur finger on...
> 
> Any agreements or, more interestingly, disagreements with that assertion?



I always just presumed it was simply one more element of my generally impeccable taste :eat2: and excellent judgment. Why question such good fortune? Could be good karma too, I suppose. Maybe I saved a boatload of kittens and orphans in a past life? Being an FA is just one of life's many blessings that require no further analysis or dissection, imo. Just enjoy and be grateful for it. :bow:


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## Lovelyone (Sep 3, 2008)

Getting back to the original question about wondering why...I am not an FA. I prefer average, taller, athletic men. I do however, wonder what makes a man like a girl who is my size. That's not to say that I am constantly wondering, but I have asked men (Fa's) whom I have talked to, what is is that gets their motor running about fat girls? I usually get one of two answers:

1) Directly, the answers they give me are that they adore the softness, jiggle, the shape of a women...the curves, the way that the belly hangs..or how thick the thighs are, the way that a hug from a fat girl makes them feel safe (which IMHO believe is a mothering complex, and nothing wrong with that).

on the other hand, I get this answer.....

2) "I dont know why, I just do" 

I think that asking why is redundant. I am sure that science has an answer, but I can't tell you why I am attracted to some people and not attracted to others. I can't tell you why a tall athletic man can turn my head and make me drool. What I can tell you about me is..that I like what I like..and if someone else doesnt like what I like...BETTER! MORE FOR ME!


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## mergirl (Sep 3, 2008)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


>


brilliant!! exellent work!!
i shall ask the queen if she will present it during her next jubilee!! lol

x


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## juniper (Sep 4, 2008)

People, thanks for your replies. 




olwen said:


> ...
> All that being said, having a community to turn to when in doubt makes you feel less alone and isolated. When people struggle they need to be able to band together to deal with whatever it is they are dealing with. (otherwise there'd have been no women's movement or civil rights movement or gay pride movement). How strong is an army of one? Perhaps if the blokes in your part of the world had a community to join with they'd be more empowered and less insecure. In that regard I am glad that a place like Dims exists. As much as I am bothered by the fact that people struggle with their attraction to what to me is not so horrible and shocking, it is good for them to have a place to go to learn that they aren't alone in their struggle and that there are people who can offer solutions.



Look, the whole thing about me being against this labeling, and sort of against this idea of community (even though I am here, I know), must have something to do with the way I've been treated in the past.

I was never teased or bullied in school, even though I always was the bigger one. Guys picked on me in highschool, but they picked on all the girls. I however have always had low self esteem and negative self image, some of this was caused by my father (I love him dearly, but he messed me up a bit) who has been very blunt and judgemental about my weight and things related to it. 

I have learnt to ignore the fact that I'm fat. This is how I cope. But it doesn't always work. Sometimes I have to really look at myself, and I mean in multiple ways, when a guy says I'm pretty for instance, and I struggle to agree with him. but it's only by not making a big deal out of being big, that I survive here, that I survive in relationships, and I learnt that the hard way.I'm not saying I ignore that I'm fat because I'm ashamed of myself. I'm not anymore. But actively thinking about being fat makes me insecure. 

And yes, I would hate it if a guy would sleep with me but be too embarrassed to be seen with me in public, and even though accusing them of that didn't get me very far, I think I've been there. But the advocating of loving fat girls for all to hear sort of makes me feel like a freak. I mean, is there a forum for Blonde Admirers? I just want to be normal, with quirks, like everyone has. And it's only by thinking I am exactly the same as my skinny best friend, I get to live the life she has. 

As far as the question why you are an FA, or why do some guys like us, goes:

A friend told me the other day: some things you're not supposed to understand, they just are; if you analyse them, question them, it's like taking the magic out of love.


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## T_Devil (Sep 4, 2008)

juniper said:


> People, thanks for your replies.
> 
> Look, the whole thing about me being against this labeling, and sort of against this idea of community (even though I am here, I know), must have something to do with the way I've been treated in the past.
> 
> ...


That's fair enough. As good an answer as I can imagine. Being a Fat Admirer.... 

**pause*: I just want to explain something here real quick. I hate the term Fat Admirer because it makes us look like we just admire that fat on a person, which is bullshit. Fat is the descriptive term for how we like our people. For instance, I am a Fat GIRL Admirer because I admire the girl, Fat is just the way that I like them.I want to clear that up because the term FA is starting to become blurred with fat fetishists and the sort. Again, I like to stand alone :*/pause**

..... can be a tough thing when dealing with other people and their name-calling, misunderstanding bullshit. It's ok when they want to understand, but it sucks if they just like to fuck with us about it. So that's why I understand that there are people who are out of the closet but don't make a big deal out of it. At least they will go to the movies with their fat girlfriend or to public places and hold their hand and kiss and hug them. Being an FA can be difficult around the wrong people, but that shouldn't mean that they have to stifle themselves either. In the end, we like being who we are. Fuck what all those other people have to say.


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## No-No-Badkitty (Sep 4, 2008)

Hey...Freaks need lov'n too!!!


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## KHayes666 (Sep 5, 2008)

Ok, I am not attracted to or an admirerer (sexually, not personality) of fat men......but I am VERY attracted to and admirerer of fat women.

Does this make me a Half F/A?


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## No-No-Badkitty (Sep 5, 2008)

KHayes666 said:


> Ok, I am not attracted to or an admirerer (sexually, not personality) of fat men......but I am VERY attracted to and admirerer of fat women.
> 
> Does this make me a Half F/A?




No, I think that would just be a matter of sexual preference as a whole wouldn't it?


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## Still a Skye fan (Sep 5, 2008)

beginner FA said:


> I have never been able to quite put my finger on why im an FA and im starting to think its one of those things u can't put ur finger on...
> 
> Any agreements or, more interestingly, disagreements with that assertion?
> 
> Secondly, should us FAs be concentrate more on being an FA (meaning bbws lol) than finding reasons for it?




I've never wondered why I'm an FA and it doesn't make any difference to me as I've always been one.

I'm adopted and have two adopted younger brothers and an older brother and sister who are the biological kids. My brothers all married slender women. My older brother's wife is short and petite. My sister married a tall skinny guy. I just haven't met the right gal yet. My late mom was an average sized woman so I have no idea if my being an FA is genetic or not.

We are who we are. My family and friends only want me to be happy and don't care who I end up with.

Dennis


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## Durin (Sep 5, 2008)

How many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop?

Why am I an FA?

Two both interesting and useless questions because the answer is normally made up on the spot and irrellivant.

Just Enjoy 

:bow:


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## olwen (Sep 5, 2008)

juniper said:


> People, thanks for your replies.
> 
> Look, the whole thing about me being against this labeling, and sort of against this idea of community (even though I am here, I know), must have something to do with the way I've been treated in the past.
> 
> ...



Juniper, do you really think you belong in a circus side show? I bet you that if you were in a circus side show all the spectators would feel gypped and demand their money back because there are just too many of us in the world for that to be so damned fantastical. Fat people are not freaks. Juniper, you are not a freak. To proclaim one's love of fat girls is to confirm as much. But we are different enough to have different needs, and a stand up kinda guy is one of them. It's just like how I need slightly different hair care products because I'm black. But that shouldn't make my or any other black person's hair freaky. Just different. 

Ignoring the fact that you are fat doesn't always work because you can't ignore it. What you can do is learn to make it a part of who you are and not let it stop you from having all the things that your skinny friends have. But you know, at some point you have to figure out what you want for yourself - just you and no one else. And then you start to ask yourself what you can have that your skinny friends can't. I know I wouldn't want to live anybody else's life but my own. 

And I'll tell ya something else, one really good thin about being fat is that you get to find out real quick what kind of a person someone really is because the nasty side they might show you is the side they hide from thin people. There have been a few times when I was really glad to see that in someone (past coworkers) and know to stay the hell away.


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## juniper (Sep 6, 2008)

When I said I want to life the life my skinny friend lives, I didn't necessarily mean that i want to be skinny. But for a long time, I have, as Olwen said, felt like a freak, and sometimes I still do. And I've always felt inferior to my friend.

I wish I could not think sometimes, I wish things were easy, I wish I could make things easy. I wish that I could live up to my own advice, and just go with the flow, and not question it when a guy says he finds me attractive, because if I don't, the guy doesn't have to worry about it either. I think it goes both ways, and it will be different for everyone.


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## Victim (Sep 6, 2008)

Friends are a lot like lovers. You do what you can to make them happy, and you get enjoyment from being with them in return. Don't dwell on feeling inferior, just enjoy the time you spend together.


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## Mac5689 (Sep 7, 2008)

Victim said:


> Friends are a lot like lovers. You do what you can to make them happy, and you get enjoyment from being with them in return. Don't dwell on feeling inferior, just enjoy the time you spend together.



yeah, and u don't want to do anything thing to get them mad at u, i had to find that out the hard way about two months ago. (but i'm talking about friends thought not lovers, since i've never had a lover to make mad at me)


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## squidgemonster (Sep 7, 2008)

I would say Im a level 2 FA,Im very proud of my SSBBW girlfriend,and still would be whether she was bigger or smaller,I outed myself when I was about 21,and glad I did .
I am open with people about my preferences,but in a subtle way,let the slimmer folks do things their way,I do things mine,and usually it works for me.


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## stevenbbwlvr (Sep 7, 2008)

1) They're jolly and accepting.

2) I have earth shattering sex with them.


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## juniper (Sep 7, 2008)

This is completely offtopic, but I don't know many people around here, apart from the people who've replied to my posts in this thread.. a good online friend of mine died yesterday. I have no idea how the hell to deal.


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## olwen (Sep 7, 2008)

Sorry about yor friend Juniper. You could start a thread on the main board.


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## juniper (Sep 7, 2008)

that's not necessary, but just needed to get it off my chest.


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## Chimpi (Sep 7, 2008)

I am sorry for your loss, juniper.
I've never lost a close online friend, but we have had our dealings in the past here on Dimensions. It's never a good experience.
The only way I would know how to cope with such a situation is to cry whenever the tears came, remember whenever the memories came, enjoy the moments when you're content and possibly happy, and continue to love them as a friend.


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## mergirl (Sep 7, 2008)

sorry to hear that juniper. Because internet friends are a fairly newish phenomenon there isnt a lot of literature on how to deal with the death of an online friend. Though, grief is grief and you just need to allow yourself your feelings. take care xlisa


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## Mac5689 (Sep 7, 2008)

i'm sorry to hear about ur friend too. my guess would be that u would deal with it as if u lost a famliy member or a friend that u talk to, when u aren't on the computer. but then again, i don't feel that much saddness when someone dies.


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## g-squared (Sep 7, 2008)

Personally, i am very aware of my preference for fat girls, and i would never try to hide that from anyone. However, it's not like i go around telling everybody ive ever met, about what i look for in a woman, i think thatd be kind of weird

p.s. - sorry about your friend juniper


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## squidgemonster (Sep 8, 2008)

juniper said:


> This is completely offtopic, but I don't know many people around here, apart from the people who've replied to my posts in this thread.. a good online friend of mine died yesterday. I have no idea how the hell to deal.



My heart goes to you Juniper,I have only recently lost my best friend of 20 years,although not an online friend,I share the feeling of loss,and hope that happy memories will remain.


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## mergirl (Sep 8, 2008)

squidgemonster said:


> My heart goes to you Juniper,I have only recently lost my best friend of 20 years,although not an online friend,I share the feeling of loss,and hope that happy memories will remain.


hey..sorry to hear about your friend too.. maby we should start a post and talk about people we have lost..

x


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## squidge dumpling (Sep 8, 2008)

sorry to hear of your lost Juniper


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