# Tell Me About Your NAAFA History



## Ben from England (Jun 20, 2008)

I'm curious as to how many people on the boards are members of NAAFA and how they got involved and what being involved entails. General opinions on the value of the organization would be interesting as well.


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## stan_der_man (Jun 20, 2008)

I've been a card carrying NAAFA member on and off since the early '90s. I think for the most part NAAFAs intentions are good. For all practical purposes they are the only organization I know of that is involved in political activism and actually getting laws passed (at least in a few cities in the U.S., I don't know if they were involved in getting Michigan's state law passed...)

What I've found is this... If you get involved (at least join) NAAFA, what you put in is basically what you will get from the organization. I used to be a member of a (now defunct) local chapter of NAAFA here in Southern California. I kid you not, a couple of years passed, without our chapter hearing anything from the national folks. I've received more mail from NAAFA within the last few months (advertisements for the L.A. convention...) than I received in years past. From what I've heard, things have improved in the organization in many ways. I'm going to go to this years convention, I will be curious to see if they are more welcoming of FAs than they have been in the past.


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## AnnMarie (Jun 20, 2008)

I was a card carrying member for years... I believe in the mission set out by Bill Fabrey so many years ago. I believe it is not currently representing that vision or spirit and have not been involved since 2006 (and to be clear, I was VERY involved, helping with the planning/execution/materials for the 2005/2006 conventions). 

I wish I felt free to be more specific, but I really don't.


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## Webmaster (Jun 21, 2008)

Ben from England said:


> I'm curious as to how many people on the boards are members of NAAFA and how they got involved and what being involved entails. General opinions on the value of the organization would be interesting as well.



Well, I joined NAAFA in 1979, was on its board of directors pretty much continuously between 1984 and 2004 and was chairman of the board for over a decade. I once pretty much dedicated my life and resources to NAAFA. I created NAAFA's computer systems, maintained most of its documents and promotionals, and probably saved the organization from extinction a time or three. At this time, NAAFA is run by competing special interests seemingly more interested in self-promotion than size acceptance, a very sad state of affairs for a once vibrant and worthwhile cause.


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## thickbob (Jun 21, 2008)

I've been sort of curious about this general issue too. A friend of mine has been going to the Naafa convention for years. He said his first year he tried to get involved but was sort of brushed off. He felt it was sort of cultish but has continued to go because he says he gets laid thoroughly every year and sometimes by two or three supersized chicks. He says all this is "worth the price of admission."

I can't say if he's lying but I really don't think he is. I've known him a long time and I don't think he'd go to all the time and expense if he wasn't getting some benefits. I can't get a vacation in July/August or else I could check this out.


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## Tooz (Jun 21, 2008)

thickbob said:


> I've been sort of curious about this general issue too. A friend of mine has been going to the Naafa convention for years. He said his first year he tried to get involved but was sort of brushed off. He felt it was sort of cultish but has continued to go because he says he gets laid thoroughly every year and sometimes by two or three supersized chicks. He says all this is "worth the price of admission."
> 
> I can't say if he's lying but I really don't think he is. I've known him a long time and I don't think he'd go to all the time and expense if he wasn't getting some benefits. I can't get a vacation in July/August or else I could check this out.



...Are you serious?

Isn't this kind of prickish?


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## Ben from England (Jun 21, 2008)

Tooz said:


> ...Are you serious?
> 
> Isn't this kind of prickish?



Not kind of. Just prickish.


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## goofy girl (Jun 21, 2008)

Ben from England said:


> Not kind of. Just prickish.



That's what I was thinking.

My experience with NAAFA:

I went to an event. I was bored. The End.


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## DeniseW (Jun 21, 2008)

I got involved with my local chapter of NAAFA in 1990 through seeing it on TV on one of those "men that like big women shows" maybe Phil Donahue or Sally Jessy Raphael. It used to be ok and I am still very grateful for NAAFA for bringing size acceptance into my life and all the wonderful people I met from it. I'm not involved like I used to be because I know it's changed but I still feel very fortunate to have found out about it when I did. I'm also friends with the founder of NAAFA...


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## EtobicokeFA (Jun 22, 2008)

Since I haven't been around to see what it was like before the change, but the fact I hear more and more people talk about the change, usually in the negative, I am also curious about it!


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## Raqui (Jun 22, 2008)

I will just say straight off the bat, I have never been a member of NAFFA. I dont know the details I have been told many negative things about it and postive things about NAFFA. 

I wasnt sure what to say when I heard about many things of sexual nature going around. It made me stay back from being a member or anything esle. 

But in the defense of any sexual acts. Just because your sexual and love to have some fun doesnt means you cant make changes in your community and cant help others. Because your a sexual freak doesnt mean you are only that and cant do postive things. 

Which I have no idea if these stories I have heard are true or not.

I myself love to be a freak a deek with my man doesnt mean I am not a postive person you know.

I have heard many postive stories and I am happy for anything person, org or other wise that makes moves in the Plus Sized Community.

When It comes down to it. If your doing something, ANYTHING that helps a plus sized person feel at home, accepted and encourged it is a big plus to me. That is just my thoughts.


HUGS


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## SilkyAngela (Jun 22, 2008)

Raqui said:


> I will just say straight off the bat, I have never been a member of NAFFA. I dont know the details I have been told many negative things about it and postive things about NAFFA.
> 
> I wasnt sure what to say when I heard about many things of sexual nature going around. It made me stay back from being a member or anything esle.
> 
> ...



Like you, I've heard things that have made me pause at least 10 times over the last 2 years when thinking about becoming a member of NAAFA -even though I share many of the core beliefs of the organization. Because of my demanding schedule and there being no local chapters or meetings close enough for me to feasibly attend, I've not worried about it too much. 

Also like you, I believe anyone contributing something positive to the community and anyone who wants to participate should be welcome and supported....whether they're big people, FA/FFA, or just folks who want a world that's more accepting of all people. I've been told before that NAAFA wasn't FA/FFA friendly from folks who felt snubbed by them.

I do appreciate the articles the organization has been circulating and I often repost them on myspace and various blogs. I would just have a hard time embracing or supporting any "acceptance" organization that doesn't make a solid effort to be welcoming of all in our community.


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## Redhotphatgirl (Jun 22, 2008)

thickbob said:


> I've been sort of curious about this general issue too. A friend of mine has been going to the Naafa convention for years. He said his first year he tried to get involved but was sort of brushed off. He felt it was sort of cultish but has continued to go because he says he gets laid thoroughly every year and sometimes by two or three supersized chicks. He says all this is "worth the price of admission."
> 
> I can't say if he's lying but I really don't think he is. I've known him a long time and I don't think he'd go to all the time and expense if he wasn't getting some benefits. I can't get a vacation in July/August or else I could check this out.



well that was just tmi i think


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## Theatrmuse/Kara (Jun 22, 2008)

:wubu: NAAFA! I have been a member of NAAFA for since 1980. My husband David and I have served in many capacities on committees, speakers, SIG coordinators and also on the BOD. 

As a former NAAFA Co-Chairperson, I see mostly the positive steps it has shown in the size acceptance community. I also have met soooooooo many wonderful people that I continue to be VERY close to and still attempt to see or at least chat with on a regular basis.

That being said, the past few years the leadership has had its difficulties and issues. While the majority of NAAFA folk are great Fat folk, FA loving, encouraging people and politically active people working day to day for fat acceptance, there do seem to be a few that just keep promoting themselves more than the organization and members. However, many, many of the hard working board believe in the mission of the organization and are working their butts off to try and make it better every single year.

I will always be a member of NAAFA and I am CERTAIN I will attend more conventions..........in fact next year it will come again to the East Coast for the 40th anniversary and I WILL be there to celebrate! I hope to meet any of you Dimmers that I have not become acquainted with face to face and invite you to certainly attend this year's convention in Los Angeles.

If you feel unwelcome, just voice your opinion at the hospitality room or to one of the NAAFA folk and I am CERTAIN they will go out of their way to make you feel a part of the gang. It is unfortunate, but sometimes it may appear a clique like anything else where people who attend for years and years gather in their own little groups of friends that they only get to see and visit with once a year. I always attempted to add to my group of friends at each convention.....sometimes we never heard from the newer people again and other times they became just "one of the friends forever" that I cherish in my heart and have proven to be blessings in my life!

So, NAAFA has enlightened me as a young adult, encouraged me to accept myself and be strong and active as a supersized woman, given me many dear friends and really had a lot to do with who I have become over the last....27 years! (Conrad, Sandi and Guy Sabo-Russo..et all.......are we areally aging at a fast and furious rate?  LOL. just kidding! )
Big fat hugs, Kara:kiss2::kiss2::kiss2:


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## moonvine (Jun 22, 2008)

thickbob said:


> I've been sort of curious about this general issue too. A friend of mine has been going to the Naafa convention for years. He said his first year he tried to get involved but was sort of brushed off. He felt it was sort of cultish but has continued to go because he says he gets laid thoroughly every year and sometimes by two or three supersized chicks. He says all this is "worth the price of admission."
> 
> I can't say if he's lying but I really don't think he is. I've known him a long time and I don't think he'd go to all the time and expense if he wasn't getting some benefits. I can't get a vacation in July/August or else I could check this out.




......and this would be exactly why I don't go to any of these things.

Not that sex doesn't happen at the conventions I DO go to, but I've only heard one person ever say it was their primary driving force, and they were pretty much ostracized because of it...


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## ThatFatGirl (Jun 22, 2008)

I have no opinion of NAAFA as I've never been a member or gone to an event, but I will say that there are people at conventions of all types (public radio, Star Trek, etc.) who go with the intention of hooking up with someone with interests similar to theirs in addition to attending seminars and eating second rate buffet meals. 

I'm sure it would be wrong (and a disservice to all) to make a NAAFA convention sound like one big, fat orgy. I think that would be the infamous Philly Fat Sex bash anyway. Do they still have that thing?


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## Raqui (Jun 22, 2008)

ThatFatGirl said:


> I'm sure it would be wrong (and a disservice to all) to make a NAAFA convention sound like one big, fat orgy. I think that would be the infamous Philly Fat Sex bash anyway. Do they still have that thing?



Yup they do have Philly Bash. I will be heading there this year I have had the hardest time trying to get a room it is rediculous. I sent in information over 2 months ago and still no confirmation of anything. Which pisses me off. My emails are not being answered and when i tried to call someone in charge there is no answer.


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## ThatFatGirl (Jun 22, 2008)

Raqui said:


> Yup they do have Philly Bash. I will be heading there this year I have had the hardest time trying to get a room it is rediculous. I sent in information over 2 months ago and still no confirmation of anything. Which pisses me off. My emails are not being answered and when i tried to call someone in charge there is no answer.



I don't think we're talking about the same events.. the one I'm thinking of was organized by the old fat_sex list serv folks and was indeed a swingers get together of some sort. I never attended, never wanted to attend, but back when I was discovering bbw/fa stuff and my own sexuality, I enjoyed reading the messages on the list serv. 

Sorry for straying from the original topic!


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## indy500tchr (Jun 22, 2008)

Raqui said:


> Yup they do have Philly Bash. I will be heading there this year I have had the hardest time trying to get a room it is rediculous. I sent in information over 2 months ago and still no confirmation of anything. Which pisses me off. My emails are not being answered and when i tried to call someone in charge there is no answer.



I had the same problem last year. I never got a confirmtion on my registration. I just sent an e-mail a day until I got a response which was a week before the bash.


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## Sandie S-R (Jun 22, 2008)

As mentioned by Conrad and others, NAAFA has changed for the worse. My husband Guy joined in 1977, and I joined in 1987. We were both major donors, volunteers in many capacities, and also on the Board of Directors. 
Since leaving NAAFA and the Board of Directors in 2004, we have chosen to no longer support NAAFA. NAAFA's original goals as set forth by Bill Fabrey as wonderful, but the people running NAAFA now are more into their own self promotion, and have really ruinned the organization in my opinion.


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## liz (di-va) (Jun 22, 2008)

I have been to two national conventions, 2002 and 2007, as well as involved on various levels online and locally, a bit.

Here's kind of what I think in a nutshell: The convention last year was not well-attended, by either "bash" standards or standards of NAAFA conventions of yore, I think. But it had great programming, great seminars, etc. All the tools were still there in place. And there was an amazing closing keynote speech about healthcare issues that I thought should have been published somewhere.

Right after the NAAFA convention I went to the Vegas bash, where there were 5-6x as many people, maybe more, and I found myself thinking constantly...*this* is the population that would have been best served by that NAAFA convention. There are a lot of people who (for lack of a better term) level-jump past the issues of fat rights into partying, and I constantly thought in Vegas...wow--this would be a *very* good spot for _____ (whatever aspect of the NAAFA conv). There was so much energy, so much newness ready to be harnessed/directed.

So why NAAFA isn't reaching those people...I don't know. I don't know how that disconnect is happening, nor do I know why they used to feel so much more visible than they do now. Maybe that's because I was newer to size acceptance and more all up in it--but it does seem like they've positioned themself less visible on the national stage on issues where you might expect them to keep up. 

The feel in 2007 was rather....insular. The people in charge felt like they were sort of out of it and self-congratulatory, with a few very notable examples. Group leaders doing good work often feel like that though--I wouldn't care so much if I saw NAAFA leaders on the news more, for instance. The 2002 convention was when the press conference with the airlines was held and that felt very topical, constructive, real.

I think it's partly the organization not knowing how to age right, maybe, especially given that I think Marilyn's right, I think we *are* pre-Stonewall despite it all. I don't think things have crested in that crucial way, and sometimes I wonder what will ever make that happen in America, where fat people always reserve the right to hate themselves. I dunno.

I find characterizing NAAFA convs as orgies really disingenuous...I don't think that's fair at all. I don't mean that there isn't a sexual/social side to it, but if anything they're less sexy than events geared just for socializing. I think the thing that differentiates them from bashes is that it's a little more about the SSBBW than the BBW. I'm too tired to explain that well, and it sounds totally unPC and I don't mean it that way, but I think people who've been might know what I mean.

I haven't been intimately involved enough with NAAFA to be as thoroughly disillusioned as some people I know whose opinions I quite value and trust. By which I mean, I trust that there are reasons to be so. But I find the idea of all the squabbling very frustrating though. We are talking about a VERY SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE--NAAFAns _*and*_ anti-NAAFAns. One really tiny percentage of all the fat folk and those who sympathize. We need some consensus-building in the worst way!

</$.02>


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## moniquessbbw (Jun 22, 2008)

My first NAAFA convention was in 1997 and I have only missed a few since then. A few years back I had a silent boycott because the vendors werent being treated well. Several of the vendors didnt attend the convention that year. The next year they got the message and changed many things for us to make it better. 

I felt free to be myself at my first convention. I wore my first bikini to a NAAFA pool party in the 90ies. I have made some very good friend from the conventions. I have never seen NAAFA as the place to go to have an orgy. Most of the people there are going to be in a safe place where they can have fun, shop, make new friends, see old friends, lay by the pool, go to the dances etc. 

The new board has changed NAAFA quite a bit and not for the better. They made a huge mistake this year with the club sponsors they choose. They had the opportunity to have a well know bbw night club sponsor a few nights which would have brought in hundreds of new people. But they decided to go with a no name bbw club from California. Since the convention is a fund raiser for NAAFA I would think they would want to bring in more people to the events. 

I hope the bad decisions they have made wont kill the convention. As a vendor I am always concerned about attendance. It is not cheap to pay for a hotel for a week, ship the merchandise, buy 2 seats on a plane etc. At least this year I can just drive. Last year was not well attended at all. I want the convention to be as fun as it use to be, but it hasnt been like that since Heather and her team is no longer doing the hosting. Bring Heather back she made the convention one of the best I have even been to.

These days, I go to the convention so that I wont let my customers down. I cant leave them nakedlol Bring Heather back and the numbers will go up


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## thickbob (Jun 22, 2008)

Hey folks, I checked with my friend after reading your posts and wanted to clarify some points. He did NOT say the Naafa conventions have been orgies. It's mostly that way for him and a few others he's met. He said the women he was with were just as interested in sex as he was, in fact in two conventions he was hit on first. Makes it easy, huh ?

He said he met Conrad once and considers him smart and reliable. He met Kara once and said she was nice and friendly. He doesn't know the other posters to date.

One poster used the term "prickish." He doesn't know what is meant by that so he can't comment.

He thinks different people are there for different reasons and that the organization is not promoting sex. He goes for sex and says he has had some fantastic times with some gorgeous chicks.

He said he doesn't know why Naafa is/has having problems.

Personally, I am wondering if it needs more marketing moxie. Just a guess.


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## Tooz (Jun 22, 2008)

thickbob said:


> Hey folks, I checked with my friend after reading your posts and wanted to clarify some points. He did NOT say the Naafa conventions have been orgies. It's mostly that way for him and a few others he's met. He said the women he was with were just as interested in sex as he was, in fact in two conventions he was hit on first. Makes it easy, huh ?
> 
> He said he met Conrad once and considers him smart and reliable. He met Kara once and said she was nice and friendly. He doesn't know the other posters to date.
> 
> ...



Dude *I* am the one who said it and I am a FEMALE. Sweet Jesus.

I am sorry but it doesn't matter, going somewhere with the intent of gettin' some hot ass is prick behavior. Furthermore the way it was put was ridiculous.

I WILL comment because I can! lol internet.


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## alienlanes (Jun 22, 2008)

thickbob said:


> He thinks different people are there for different reasons and that the organization is not promoting sex. He goes for sex and says he has had some fantastic times with some gorgeous chicks.



You should tell your... um... friend (why does the name "Joey Jo-Jo Junior Shabadoo" come to mind?) that when he boasts about his many fantastic sexual conquests, fun and consensual though they all might have been, he does indeed come off as pretty damn prickish.


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## Theatrmuse/Kara (Jun 23, 2008)

ThickBob quote: "He said he met Conrad once and considers him smart and reliable. He met Kara once and said she was nice and friendly. He doesn't know the other posters to date."


LOL! That about sums us up...........Conrad.....smart............Kara ........nice and friendly. BUT please realize whomever your friend is....may I be the first to say that I am not THAT friendly, if you get my drift! LOLOL!

Good Grief.........here I am always the Pollyanna and Conrad always the smart one!!!!!!!!!!!! lolol!
Hugs, of course,! Kara


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## Raqui (Jun 23, 2008)

indy500tchr said:


> I had the same problem last year. I never got a confirmtion on my registration. I just sent an e-mail a day until I got a response which was a week before the bash.




Dont want to go off topic But I hear you there. I will never book through them again if I ever go again. I would rather spend the extra 6 dollars and have my confirmation IMMEDIATELY from the hotel website. I never had so much trouble giving someone money.


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## fatgirlflyin (Jun 23, 2008)

I've been to one NAAFA event, the one a few years ago that was held in the bay area. I'm not a member but probably would be if I saw them out and doing something in my area.


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## Eclectic_Girl (Jun 23, 2008)

AnnMarie said:


> I was a card carrying member for years... I believe in the mission set out by Bill Fabrey so many years ago. I believe it is not currently representing that vision or spirit and have not been involved since 2006 (and to be clear, I was VERY involved, helping with the planning/execution/materials for the 2005/2006 conventions).
> 
> I wish I felt free to be more specific, but I really don't.



This is my story as well, except add the facts that I used to be on the board of directors, programmed the workshops for the 2005-2007 conventions, and was the co-coordinator for the 2007 convention. I am not currently planning on volunteering again. If I go back to a convention, it will be as an attendee only.

NAAFA was crucial for me at a certain point in my life as my introduction to the world of size acceptance. I would not have felt comfortable just showing up for a dance, and there was nothing near me anyway. The NAAFA convention seemed safer because it has/had a more activist/community-building aspect. I met fabulous friends through NAAFA. I started dating because I met FAs at NAAFA events. I wore sleeveless tops and a 2-piece bathing suit for the first time at NAAFA conventions. The first dance at my first convention felt like the prom I never got to go to. I will always cherish those memories. I volunteered because I wanted to help other people have those kinds of memories. But there's so much infighting and disagreement about what NAAFA should be that I'm not sure it can successfully go in any direction right now. I really think that it needs at least one full-time paid staff member, but it doesn't raise enough funds to make that possible.




thickbob said:


> A friend of mine has been going to the Naafa convention for years. He said his first year he tried to get involved but was sort of brushed off. He felt it was sort of cultish but has continued to go because he says he gets laid thoroughly every year and sometimes by two or three supersized chicks. He says all this is "worth the price of admission.".



If NAAFA has a rep for being FA-unfriendly it's because of long experience with guys like this who show up just to get laid - preferably without spending more money than they absolutely have to (like hanging around outside the dance ogling women instead of paying the $20 entrance fee) - and who don't participate in other aspects of the community or contribute to the cause at all. Guys who come to workshops and are around for the whole convention are welcomed with open arms.


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## yrhighnesslv (Jun 23, 2008)

Although I've been fat all my life, I never heard about size acceptance until a girlfriend brought over a Dimensions Magazine in the early 90's. I read a small ad about a NAAFA convention and my sister and I traveled to San Diego that year for our very first exposure to anything size positive. It was a very interesting experience, mostly good but not perfect, after all there are humans involved! There wasn't a chapter closer than a 2+ hour drive each way so we didn't really get involved at the time.

Having a PC and exposure to the BBW world on line really began to change things for my sister and I, who are housemates, by the way. In 2001 we decided to start an art gallery and gift shop with only "fat friendly" products so we introduced our new business at a regional NAAFA weekend event in the SF Bay area in 2001. So although I was making friends all over the country thanks to Yahoo groups (didn't know blogs existed at the time), I had only attended a couple of NAAFA events. I found the environment very supportive and made some wonderful friendships that last to this day and had fun at the social events as well. 

In 2004 I felt inspired to "take the show on the road" and travel around the country to events as not only a participant, but also as a vendor. I've been to the Vegas Bash, The Philly Bash, Linda's Big Connect in Chicago, the St. Louis Bash, BBW Island Bash in Dayton, OH, the Austin BBW Bash, the FL Beach Bash, BBW Northwest, and I'm sure I'm forgetting someone. 

Of all the events I have attended, NAAFA is the least sexually oriented and the most political/activist oriented. All the rest are strictly social. I am a personal friend of JoAnn, the organizer of the Vegas Bash and she cares about more than the social aspect, has tried to introduce workshops that would be meaningful and helpful but has found them very poorly attended. She stopped wasting her money on rooms for things people aren't going to attend. She's giving the people what they want. I haven't attend NoLose but I believe they are quite open about their sexuality along with being rad fatties!

It was on that trip in 2004 that I spent some time with Kara and she invited me to join the board of NAAFA. I joined in 2005 and am still working with the organization. It is not a perfect organization, which is?, but in my humble opinion, those of us volunteering our time to the cause are all doing what we do because we care about fat people. We are trying to make a change. We are all volunteers, work jobs, have lives and still find time to try to help. We do not organize our convention to be a sexfest. Any event is what the individual makes it. What you seek you will find.

It's disappointing to me that the convention is not as large as it once was, especially since it's now our only fund raising event, but at the same time, I realize that the most of the people who were there for "social/sexual reasons only" are now attending events that are structured for that purpose only. What we're left with are people who are serious about size acceptance and willing to do the hard work. Join us next month in LA and find out for yourself!

Looking forward,
Peggy Howell


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## Blockierer (Jun 24, 2008)

The first time a read about NAAFA was 1972. At that time I was a boy of seventeen. :wubu: To young and too far away to follow. 
Ages later, since 2007 I am a member. I thought I should support size acceptance.  Am I wrong?


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## Theatrmuse/Kara (Jun 25, 2008)

Of course, you are not wrong. I believe we should do all in our power to support organizations and forums that are promoting size acceptance! I know I current support both NAAFA AND Dimensions...................
BOTH are great places for fat acceptance!
Hugs, Kara


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## Cat (Jun 25, 2008)

I was a member for several years, but due to short-sighted, reactionary politics/decisions by the leaders, I am no longer a member.

I really don't miss it. There are far more positive size acceptance leaders making waves throughout the world. NAAFA's days have come and gone.


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## Raqui (Jun 25, 2008)

So many views and I cant say any one of the is wrong because each is personal and has its own owner and right to be heard. I dont even know why i started to make this post. I guess what I wanted to say is that something so large as prejudice agaisnt fat needs to be distroyed.

The thing is we cant use expolsives or tanks. All we do is CHIP. Slowly chip and chip away at the prejudice that is around us.

People call me a fake, that I am all about me and not about Size Acceptance. I know I cant change the world all I can do is try and help the fat people who might come around me. I am not on a picket line, I am not fighting agaisnt a company.

My way of being an activist is to try and give a thought to a person and have them roll that thought around in their head and make their own discision. Make them empower themselves. Make them decide for themselves. Even if that is only one person at a time weather your slim or big.

Some might say I DONT DO SHIT but I see it, i hear it, and the people I have helped in my wayward comical silly way feel it. I try to represent the best I can I am told everyday I make a diffrence though It is hard to believed many times because I am just being Raqui nothing more.

We are all chipping at this prejuidce in our own way. I cant even speak badly about BBW Strip Clubs, swinger parties etc. They are not my choice of places to go, but Because someone is feeling empowered enough to go, and is able to see that being big and sexy or a swinger is possible because they are desired. DAMN that is a big jump from back in the day when it was unheard of desiring a big woman or man at all.

I am rambling now. I think my whole point it that we cant care who is helping to chip away at the prejudice agaisnt people of size. We just got to keep letting them chip away. We all need to find our place and start chipping and keep going. Even if it is just one person at a time.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jun 25, 2008)

I first joined in 1988 or '89 I can't remember. I jumped in feet first and joined my local chapter, joined as many SIG's as I could and went to lots of events in the NY/NJ/PA area. I did that for a few years, and then got frustrated. There is so much politics in NAAFA it was hard to get anything done. So I stopped supporting NAAFA. Joined again in the mid '90's and realized nothing had changed - dropped out again. Now - I don't believe NAAFA is known as anything but a fetish group, at least that's what I hear.

I have no desire to be a part of NAAFA ever again.


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## Elfcat (Jun 25, 2008)

Boy, so many disparate words from so many people I know. I joined in 1988 and lapsed my membership from 1995-2003, when the South and East San Francisco Bay Chapter dissolved in the wake of the Seattle Meltdown. I was the newsletter editor, and went to a local meeting of the National Board to get answers with my wife of the time, Teresa. She didn't react well to what she saw, and asked to go home before the main board meeting even began. I wish she'd stayed, I might have been able to find out more, but so much vitriol was in the air back then over conflict of interest and other issues that I really needed to come back with some concrete reason to keep the chapter together, and I returned emptyhanded. Teresa and I tried to do a splinter organization; it went on for a few years and died off. She and I went to the Bash once in 2000, but I don't think she got the full experience of it even then.

I returned both to the Bash and to NAAFA in 2003 after Teresa passed away. Five years later I'm remarried, and my second wife and I have gone to all the Bashes since 2005 and to the San Mateo convention.

I get the feeling that NAAFA has a touch of Kremlin syndrome. I think there is eventually going to be a need for the newer blood to take on more of the mechanics of the organization, and I think it is starting to happen. Kat and I go to the local meetings in the SF Bay, and with a couple of exceptions it feels like we're the only members of the hip hop generation there.

I've never felt any more suspicion of myself as an FA in NAAFA than in other organizations. I think I can say pretty honestly that I sought many things from NAAFA and expressing my sexuality and finding girlfriends was one of them. I think my "hookup" experience has been similar to most, a very occasional random happening, a rare concurrence of energies.

I am a political being as you all know, and it seems to me that for its flaws, no other group has taken up the cause in a publicly accessible way. My only hope is that it becomes more accessible. My main complaint is that I know so little of what goes on with the Board because they don't make the meetings easily accessible by members and don't provide minutes. That would be what I'd want Peggy and Kara to know. You act like you don't completely trust your rank and file, and I really think you should consider letting us in more on what gets on the agenda and brought to vote.

I could write more, but someone is messaging me... something about getting home quick with pizza. <giggle>


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## yrhighnesslv (Jun 26, 2008)

Elfcat said:


> I am a political being as you all know, and it seems to me that for its flaws, no other group has taken up the cause in a publicly accessible way. My only hope is that it becomes more accessible. My main complaint is that I know so little of what goes on with the Board because they don't make the meetings easily accessible by members and don't provide minutes. That would be what I'd want Peggy and Kara to know. You act like you don't completely trust your rank and file, and I really think you should consider letting us in more on what gets on the agenda and brought to vote.
> 
> I could write more, but someone is messaging me... something about getting home quick with pizza. <giggle>



Thanks, Avery. I will be sure to pass your message on. I have always had a great deal of respect for you. I know in my heart that you are a true advocate and I have always appreciated that very much. See you soon.

Looking forward, Peggy


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## Webmaster (Jun 26, 2008)

Elfcat said:


> ...I was the newsletter editor, and went to a local meeting of the National Board to get answers with my wife of the time, Teresa. She didn't react well to what she saw, and asked to go home before the main board meeting even began. ...



I remember that meeting. Sadly, you'd picked a most inopportune time and venue. I presided over many dozens of board meetings and most were easily accessible, well publicized, more professional than those of many public corporations, and totally open.

In the meantime, I wish NAAFA had its own forum so folks could discuss all this there and not here, but I understand the old open forums I set up were closed a while ago.


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## Elfcat (Jun 26, 2008)

Webmaster said:


> I remember that meeting. Sadly, you'd picked a most inopportune time and venue. I presided over many dozens of board meetings and most were easily accessible, well publicized, more professional than those of many public corporations, and totally open.
> 
> In the meantime, I wish NAAFA had its own forum so folks could discuss all this there and not here, but I understand the old open forums I set up were closed a while ago.



1. Yes, I remember. In fact going to the Board meeting at the conventions and conferences was one of my favorite parts. It's ironic that back then the internet was barely accessible and affordable to anyone outside the government or university settings, and now it seems that only the force of will keeps these goings on at arms length now.

2. Yeah, it is also ironic that we have to have the discourse here in what has gotten labeled as rebel territory.

I think the collaboration with ASDAH is a good thing, and I hope that continues, as to me one of NAAFA's best possible roles right now is as a source of public dissemination of ASDAH's research. To an extent I think the goals of this here evolution of the FA SIG have gained a lot of ground, as the mainstream media, flawed though it is, seems to at least have been hammered into the position of recognizing our existence and expressing some interest in what makes fat sexuality tick. The adversaries' reaction, of course, has been to dig in their heels on the health issue and make a gambit to bring it to the level of government policy, so I feel that is the primary battleground at this time.

I think I already posted this elsewhere, but it seems like there are some hard core progressives who get it, like Raj Patel, author of a book on international food and farming politics called "Stuffed and Starved", who wrote a piece not long ago on CommonDreams called "Fat Chance: Modern capitalisms powerful spell means we cannot accept research into world food policy without turning it into an attack on the overweight". Personally I think NAAFA and ASDAH need to come into contact with this author and see if he wants to find out more about HAES and about fat-acceptance politics in general. I think sometimes the same revolutionaries who easily echo statistics about how many fat people there are have to be nudged early and often and reminded that any good revolution needs the support of the people, which in the case of the U.S.A. means a whole lot of fat people need to be convinced. Given what is said, we all do realize, yes?, that if fat people organized into a voting block they could pretty much run the whole damn country. That's a scary thought for some people no doubt, which I think is one incentive for the powers that be to promote divisions like the very one we are experiencing here. You think CoIntelPro sleeps? I think not!

And yes, I said "fat-acceptance", and I'm still not sure what the negativity is about the name change. I mean, OK, when I joined the fact there was an organization like this at all was inspiring, and the fact it was "to Aid Fat Americans" was cool. I wouldn't have minded if it stayed with that name, but just the same, advancing fat-acceptance seems not to be that different to me - after all, to what end are we aiding fat Americans anyway?


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## AnnMarie (Jun 26, 2008)

Elfcat said:


> 2. Yeah, it is also ironic that we have to have the discourse here in what has gotten labeled as rebel territory.



Agree. Just further testament to Conrad's generosity. Speaks volumes.


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## Elfcat (Jun 27, 2008)

AnnMarie said:


> Agree. Just further testament to Conrad's generosity. Speaks volumes.



True, but I would hope that if a new organization grows out of this turmoil it will not depend so heavily on one person. Even the most generous and most reliable of people have their hiccups, as we all found out.

And I have made my own choices in the past few years, to seek to remarry, a project which requires a lot of dedication in itself and leaves not so much time for political work. I still have some inklings to seek a place on the Board at some point, but as I said it's difficult to get a bead on a group of people who are being so secretive. Whether it be in one person or a group of people, concentrated power is best kept under a close watch by those it claims to serve.

I don't know though... anyone ever thought of a modification of the old plan: Social Dimensions, Political Dimensions, and Business Dimensions? It seems as if Dimensions readers have as much solidarity as NAAFA members do per se. Perhaps local Dims get togethers might be an idea?


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## JerseyGirl07093 (Jun 28, 2008)

I had joined NAAFA sometime back in the 80's, I can't remember exactly when. I don't even remember where I first heard of NAAFA, probably on television. I stayed a member for a couple of years and enjoyed the newsletters and just about any link I had to the 'fat' world I felt so alone in. I belonged to some of the NAAFA SIGs and looked forward to receiving their newsletters as well. This was all before the internet and all the access people have to each other these days. There were no chapters near me and I didn't drive (still don't) so I could never belong to any. I did go to one NAAFA dance that was held so surprisingly close to my house. I was so shy I dragged my Mom with me! I never did get up to dance because I was so shy, but it was fun none the less. To see so many women of size of all different sizes. At this dance I saw the first fat woman I had ever seen bearing her midriff! I was amazed!
I eventually let my membership lapse, probably due to financial reasons and it was just one more bill I couldn't afford.
NAAFA is probably where I first heard of Dimensions and boy did that open up a whole new world to me! Women who looked just like me! Women who were enjoying their lives. Women who men loved. I was hooked! I looked forward to each issue and couldn't wait for it to arrive!
Once I got on the internet I, of course, looked for Dimensions. The old boards were too hard to read and I never really got involved, but one day I came back and these new boards were up and I've never looked back! 
So, although I was never too involved in NAAFA it brought me to Dimensions and for that I will be forever grateful!


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## SuperMishe (Jun 28, 2008)

My ex-husband introduced me to NAAFA in 1988. I immediately joined and not long after, he played an important role in establishing the New England Chapter of NAAFA (NEC-NAAFA). For the next several years, we became and remained an active, vibrant, successful local chapter, despite being on the other side of the country and the waning support of NAAFA.

I have attended several national and regional conventions (8-10?) and imo, the fiasco that was the '95 convention is what "broke" NAAFA and it's never been able to recover. Don't misunderstand - NAAFA had plenty of problems before Seattle, but for me, and many others - that was the beginning of the "end".

For as long as I can remember, one of NAAFA's biggest challenges and failures has been communication with its members. Even as a leader in my local chapter, I was unaware of what was happening on a national level. We simply "did our own thing" in the name of size-acceptance and no one cared. Sure, every once in awhile, a new chairperson of something would come along and promise to get the chapters involved or rally us together, but nothing ever came of it. Eventually, our steam ran out as well, and NEC-NAAFA folded.

If I thought that NAAFA could be what it once was, I'd get involved again, but with the "advent of the internet" and so many other social organizations out there, I'm not sure it ever can.

Mishe


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## Webmaster (Jun 28, 2008)

SuperMishe said:


> ... If I thought that NAAFA could be what it once was, I'd get involved again, but with the "advent of the internet" and so many other social organizations out there, I'm not sure it ever can.



I realized that in 2000/2001 when Leslie asked me to come back and run the board again. This is what I urged at the 2002 Convention in my State of NAAFA address. And note the last four paragraphs:

_ Today, anyone with a computer can get any amount of information for free, without having to join an organization. All you have to do is type a few keywords into a search engine and within seconds you have hundreds of references and access to just about anything you want. If anything, there is too much information. This is really a terrific thing, but it has also had a devastating impact on many membership organizations, and especially those like NAAFA who provided information and services that no one else had access to. As a result, the last few years have been very hard for NAAFA. Its been a constant financial struggle to keep the doors open. Without the very generous help of a small number of major donors, NAAFA would have closed years ago. But even with their help, we often do not know how to pay our bills, how to pay the rent, and how to make sure that our executive director can cash her paycheck.

To be honest, sometimes it seems easier to just give up.

But every time we think we just cant go on we realize that the fight is not over. NAAFAs basic mission, that of fighting against size discrimination and fighting to increase the quality of life for fat people remains as valid as it was in 1969. Fat people continue to be discriminated against. Fat jokes are still considered perfectly acceptable. The diet industry still makes billions off fat people by making them feel bad about themselves. 

And now more and more companies, and even our government, are starting to single out fat people and penalize them, as if being fat were some sort of crime. Southwest Airline employees can now decide whether you are too fat. And if they think you are too fat, you pay twice because you inconvenience other people. Never mind that it is YOU who is inconvenienced and humiliated and harassed and penalized for not fitting into those tiny seats of theirs. So instead of putting in a couple of rows of wider seats to accommodate larger passengers, something they could easily do because their average occupancy rate is only about 70%, they send you to the back of the bus. And if we let them send fat people to the back of the bus, you can be sure that others will start doing it, too. And that is discrimination and un-American. Our society is built on accommodating all of us even though it may sometimes cost a bit more. Children or older people cost more, or those with injuries and many others. Thats just the way it is. Our society knows that and were spreading the cost, but now someone like Southwest comes along and wants you to pay twice. Youre not only discriminated against, you have to pay twice. We cant let them get away with it.

Its things like this that make me realize that NAAFA is still needed, maybe more than ever. But, as I pointed out a few minutes ago, the money just isnt there anymore because the old membership organization model just doesnt work anymore. In order to go on, NAAFA must change and adapt to the information age. This is, in fact, a classic example of the glass being half full rather than being half empty. Yes, the internet and the web have made a membership organization essentially obsolete, but the internet and the web have also given us incredible new tools to accomplish more and to work smarter. The basic question that must be asked is this: With the Internet and the web a reality, what can NAAFA offer fat people, and how can NAAFA use these new tools to accomplish its mission?

* I came up with four areas:

First, because the new technologies and resources make it possible to have meetings and communication in entirely new ways we no longer have to travel across country for a meeting. We can simply meet in a chatroom. And we no longer have to wait days or weeks for letters to arrive. We simply email or use web boards. This will attract more people into leadership and volunteering. 

Second, with all that overload of information out there, NAAFA should collect and map access to that information so as to become THE place to go when anyone seeks anything relating to size discrimination and size acceptance. In addition, NAAFA has a huge amount of size-related information, and all of that should be made available online, on the NAAFA website.

Third, we can take advantage of the web and email to organize and quickly disseminate information. NAAFA needs to map online access to political bodies, news agencies, and so on so that they can be alerted and lobbied whenever needed. A great example of how that can work is Elizabeth Fishers brilliantly conceived and executed cyber appeal to the NHTSA about making seatbelts long enough to fit all people.

And fourth, NAAFA must offer enough value on its website to get people to help NAAFA and become a paid member or supporter. To that end, were trying to make NAAFAs website a complete resource and community for fat people, one that provides easy access to the really important information, one that is a place to hang out, a place for special interest groups and likeminded people to discuss issues, and also a place where people can be mobilized and informed. *
_


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## SuperMishe (Jun 28, 2008)

Webmaster said:


> I realized that in 2000/2001 when Leslie asked me to come back and run the board again. This is what I urged at the 2002 Convention in my State of NAAFA address. And note the last four paragraphs:
> 
> * I came up with four areas:
> 
> ...



I admit I have not visited the NAAFA site in awhile, so tell me, has any of this occurred? Once in awhile I get an email with a "newsletter" in it, but that's about it.


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## UncannyBruceman (Jun 28, 2008)

Webmaster said:


> At this time, NAAFA is run by competing special interests seemingly more interested in self-promotion than size acceptance, a very sad state of affairs for a once vibrant and worthwhile cause.



This is precisely why I was only a member for one year.

My NAAFA history is very brief. I first learned about it YEARS ago from seeing televised interviews with its board members. But alas, that was a different NAAFA from what I saw two years ago in MA.

I attended the convention they hosted in 2006 and had the pleasure of meeting some really wonderful people, but I was repulsed by the board members before the weekend was even over. Many friends of mine worked really hard to make that event a great one, and they succeeded, but the board saw fit to pat themselves on the back for past accomplishments from several years ago and basically say "everything's gonna be great, just keep paying membership dues".

I registered and became a member that weekend, and simply let my membership expire last summer with no intention of renewing it or even attending another NAAFA-related event.


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## Webmaster (Jun 28, 2008)

SuperMishe said:


> I admit I have not visited the NAAFA site in awhile, so tell me, has any of this occurred? Once in awhile I get an email with a "newsletter" in it, but that's about it.



I do not believe much of anything happened. Certainly not what I had in mind, and what I thought was necessary to adapt the organization to the new information age realities (as well as take advantage of great opportunities and steering clear of pitfalls).


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## Theatrmuse/Kara (Jun 28, 2008)

Well, forgive me, but I must add that NAAFA and the NAAFA Board Meetings did incorporate some of the new technology mentioned by Conrad and others.......and I am not 100% certain it works for the better. First in 2003 or so, we started using the internet private chat room to meet together....as much as every two weeks if I remember correctly....sometimes for three or four hours at a time. Now because it was done this way and in later years by conference calls, it limited the membership of NAAFA from attending or participating with the board on a regular basis. The only time ALL the membership could participate practically was during the annual convention board meeting....and those were poorly attended. (hard to compete with other workshops, pool activities, etc) So, what had begun as a way to have BOD from all over the country meet together so THINGS COULD PROGRESS FORWARD....actually might have hindered the process, in my opinion.

The website was updated.....ONE major overhaul and then nothing really and one new brochure was created that is impressive. The old NAAFA message board system became useless and was NEVER replaced with a newer version even after moderators insisted it be made top priority. Every time I mentioned it at a BOD meeting; a member in charge of the website would just say...........it's in the works........well, that has been what 4 or 5 years ago???? There was a convention board for a bit.....but that was only of interest to those able to physically attend the summer convention and (let's face it) not all NAAFA members can afford to attend or are otherwise able to attend. That leaves a LOT of people out, and a LOT of them have come to the Dimensions Message Board to find like minds.....but I think there must be others that have no idea where to go and that makes me really sad for our fat community.

The electronic newsletter has many positive points and reaches the members very quickly via the internet.......but there IS something about not getting a regular newsletter in the mail.......there is a personal factor that I miss as well as others. BUT Bill Weitz does an outstanding job as the editor of the electronic version and I look forward to reading it.......wish it just came MORE often and contained more articles about other NAAFA members....not just those we see over and over again.

I am sorry to complain. I LOVE those involved with NAAFA and (sometimes feel) that I gave up the ship and should have dug my feet in the mud and tried harder to be heard while on the Board. However, I am not a person comfortable with conflict on a continual basis. 

Life is too short.
Hugs and thanks for listening to my 2 cent RANT, Kara


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## SoVerySoft (Jun 28, 2008)

My NAAFA history. Well, I joined in 1985. I was on the national board of directors in the late 80s - early 90s when Conrad was chairman. I was the head of the marketing committee and, as such, helped create the brochures and ads that were used during that time.

I was involved in the New Jersey, Philadelphia and South Jersey chapters. I made friends that I am still close to - in fact I met my best friend at a chapter event back in 1986 or so.

I went to most conventions until they became difficult for me to get to. I think the first one I missed since my first in Cleveland in 1986 was the infamous Seattle convention. I've still only missed a handful. I want to go to LA in July, but traveling is a hardship.

I loved NAAFA. It changed my life back then, and I feel nostalgic for the NAAFA of yesterday, warts (infighting) and all. I hardly recognize it now. But then, I am guessing most people wouldn't recognize me, 20 years later either.


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## kathynoon (Jun 29, 2008)

I joined NAAFA around 1992. I was involved in the South Jersey Chapter, then the Phiadelphia Chapter. I ened up running the Philly chapter for serveral years. Then I became a member of the national board of directors for about 5 years. NAAFA was critical in my life at a time when I needed support and confidence and fun. I knwo NAAFA was critical in many people's lives, and I know they helped to encourage and help many size friendly businesses and groups.

Now I try to get to the convention when I can. I have to miss this year due to work committments. Other than that, I really do not know what NAAFA is currently working on. I don't know the current board members enough to make any comment on them.

From what I saw over the years:

- Confusion over whether those who pay dies are members or supporters. Basically, members expect more of a say in the organization than supporters. And they expect more benefits. NAAFA really seemed to want supporters, but billed itself as wanting members.

- Too many conflicting interests and their desired directions for the organization. The folks were all good, and their interests were good, but when NAAFA tried to do everything, it generally failed at everything.

- Inability to use the local chapters more effectively. The chapters had a lot of energy, and a lot of people willing to work hard. But they generally were not encouraged by national to do things on behelaf of the entire organization. So they did their own thing.

- Inability or unwillingness to keep up with technology. Wanting to do things as they had always done it.


It would be a shame to see the organization not make it. Hopefully it can turn itself around.


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## djzulu (Jul 2, 2008)

I actually did a show about NAAFA and how they impact the community today recently on the Big Boogie Radio show, In fact it's being reaired right now and I will be doing a follow up on tonight's show as well as mentioning this thread (I hope that's okay).

Darren (DJ Zulu)


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## XXXLGBBW (Jul 13, 2008)

moniquessbbw said:


> I want the convention to be as fun as it use to be, but it hasn'tt been like that since Heather and her team is no longer doing the hosting. Bring Heather back she made the convention one of the best I have even been to./QUOTE]
> 
> I wasn't going to say anything, but I decided I had too...
> 
> ...


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## butch (Jul 13, 2008)

I have a few questions/thoughts, and none of them are intended to knock anyone's opinion about the NAAFA convention. First, if the Dimensions Bash is still being considered for next summer, for those of you who miss something from the NAAFA Conventions, couldn't you use the Dims bash as a way to replicate what it is you miss from the conventions?

Second, for those of you who are less than pleased with one or more aspects of the NAAFA conventions, is any of your displeasure aimed at the activist components of the convention? I ask because if part of the complaints are focused on the workshops, which seem to focus on activism either of the self-esteem variety or issues-oriented variety, then I wondered how folks might change the workshop portion of the conference?

I guess thats it for questions.


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## sscurves (Jul 13, 2008)

First of all, Id like to say that my NAAFA history began back in 1994. I have been involved as a member and volunteer on the local level, at SIG level, and at the convention level. I have to say that NAAFA got me where I am today with my self acceptance and has made me a better person. I have met many friends that I will have the rest of my life in NAAFA. Most of my dearest friends are NAAFA members. And we all have enjoyed our experiences with NAAFA over the years.

I truly believe that you get out of NAAFA what you put in. I believe that if you go to convention and do not attend the workshops, that you miss a valuable part of the convention! I believe that you connect with people on a greater level when you get involved and that means in all aspects, not just the social events. 

NAAFA to me, means being with people who understand what you go through everyday. It means being able to spend a week doing things in a comfortable envirnoment without fear of being stared at, or having comments made because of your size. It means dressing up and attending dances like some of us didn't do in school because of our size. It means wearing a bikini to a pool party. It means having support from like-minded people when life as a fat person gets us down. It means knowing there is support out there to help you through whatever may be your issue at the time. NAAFA has done so much for me, and I can't imagine that I would have gotten where I am had I not become a member years ago.

But I, like many here, am disappointed in the current state of NAAFA. I personally, am dissappointed in the board at this time, and many decisions made by them. I know that new blood has to come in when there is an organization like NAAFA, and that younger blood has to take over the reins. But I feel that some of the new blood doesn't embrace or understand NAAFA and where it was founded. I feel they don't represent the members, and they are there for their own reasons, not all of which are good. 

I like Cathy would like to know what qualifications you must meet to be a board member? I would also like to know who the board answers to? I would like to ask why the minutes from the board meetings are not posted on the NAAFA site and available to all members? What input do the members have on anything? From what I have seen over the past few years, members can voice their opinions to board members in person at the convention (which I have done), and they kindly pat you on the back and say "I understand", and that's it. 

I would like to say to the board members who read these threads posted here: NAAFA is nothing without members, are you going to continue to let members leave slowly? Is the board going to continue in the direction it has been after all of these posts have been made? Or are some of the board members going show us that you are interested in NAAFA and its not just all about certain ones. Will you put yourself out there as a board member and make an effort to lead NAAFA into a better light for OUR future?

I have high hopes that the 40th anniversary will be a year to be proud of. That this will be the turning point and that some of the bad blood will be washed away by efforts of the board. 

Nancy


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## Webmaster (Jul 14, 2008)

The main problem is that there is not a lot of new blood and whatever seeks to serve and help is generally discouraged. You have some old leftovers that should have retired decades ago and some angry, arrogant folks with their own agendas.

Board elections used to be a very important thing. Anyone could run for the board and the annual elections were a big deal. We had election committees and election committee meetings, candidates answered questions and presented their qualifications and goals, election materials were mailed out to all members, votes were counted and new board members welcomed. That was an expensive process, and some years there were not enough candidates to fill available seats. So some members were elected by acclaim. Some got on simply because they were friends with a clique or recruited for an agenda. With today's technology, it would be quite easy to once again have real, open elections.

Board minutes were once made freely available, and board members once freely answered questions through the bulletin boards I had set up. But those were then closed. So NAAFA has generally become a small club run by extremists who arrogantly snap at people and force anyone who they feel threatened by out. Just ask Heather and legions of others. 



sscurves said:


> ...I know that new blood has to come in when there is an organization like NAAFA, and that younger blood has to take over the reins. But I feel that some of the new blood doesn't embrace or understand NAAFA and where it was founded. I feel they don't represent the members, and they are there for their own reasons, not all of which are good.
> 
> I like Cathy would like to know what qualifications you must meet to be a board member? I would also like to know who the board answers to? I would like to ask why the minutes from the board meetings are not posted on the NAAFA site and available to all members? What input do the members have on anything? From what I have seen over the past few years, members can voice their opinions to board members in person at the convention (which I have done), and they kindly pat you on the back and say "I understand", and that's it....


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## Elfcat (Jul 14, 2008)

butch said:


> Second, for those of you who are less than pleased with one or more aspects of the NAAFA conventions, is any of your displeasure aimed at the activist components of the convention? I ask because if part of the complaints are focused on the workshops, which seem to focus on activism either of the self-esteem variety or issues-oriented variety, then I wondered how folks might change the workshop portion of the conference?



I was a little disappointed that there was no off-site activity this time. I think this is an important part of past conventions, because I think it is important to get a lot of us together for a public show of force. There is a certain amount of theory to good organizing, but at some point you want to put your boots on the ground, and a defiant group of fat people rarely fails to get noticed.



Conrad said:


> Board minutes were once made freely available, and board members once freely answered questions through the bulletin boards I had set up. But those were then closed. So NAAFA has generally become a small club run by extremists who arrogantly snap at people and force anyone who they feel threatened by out. Just ask Heather and legions of others.



For that matter, ask Marilyn Wann now, as she just resigned because the majority of the board insisted on screening _disFigured_ at the convention, a film Kat and I missed because we were exhausted, but that we heard later was a tired and annoying rehash of the dialectic of anorexia and overeating which to my mind went as far as it could go in any constructive way a long time ago.

As for elections, well Conrad knows I've referred to the current system as "The Star Chamber" from the time it started after the Seattle Meltdown. At this point, its own challenges notwithstanding, I think it might be good, current Board members who are listening, to look into what the Pacifica Foundation did to reverse its own self-selecting Board system, which is that their National Board now has a seat for each local station and I think one or two more for affiliate stations, and each local station's board elects one of their own to their seat on the National Board. In similar fashion we could have each local chapter's elected board choose their National Board rep by a vote of either the board or the whole chapter, with maybe a lot or two for NAAFA's "affiliates" like ASDAH or the Bash-goers or NOLOSE or other specific sister community orgs.


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## Sandie S-R (Jul 14, 2008)

XXXLGBBW said:


> ...snip...
> I have been involved in NAAFA since 1994 and have met some wonderful people and each year I see these people leave *one group *at a time...It is very clear there is a major problem in the organization when it comes to the way they treat their volunteers.
> 
> I do have two questions to ask... What are the qualifications to be a board member and as a membership organization why are we not voting on these board members.
> ...



Cathy, I've missed seeing you too!! We've had a lot of fun over the years together (especially those fashion shows  ).

In re: your question regarding BOD members...

The last time NAAFA held "elections" (voted on my the membership) for the BOD was 1992. I ran at that time, and was narrowly defeated by someone else. Since then, who sits on the BOD, has been determined by interested people (must be a NAAFA member in good standing for a couple of years I believe) making an application to the board, being interviewed by the board, then the BOD votes you in or out. That is it. As far as requirements, well not too many. You need to be willing to donate or raise funds for NAAFA during the year, the amount used to be $5000.00 per BOD member, not sure if that is the same. You also need to serve and volunteer your time in various positions, and go to the conventions. 

The current NAAFA has become the "Marilyn Wann Adoration Society", and is really not interested in bringing back old members IMHO. Considering they kicked longtime members, major donors and BOD members, like Conrad, my husband Guy (member since 1977) and myself to the curb without a simple "thank you" or "kiss my ass" should tell you something. 

Hope that answers a few of your questions.


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## Sandie S-R (Jul 14, 2008)

Elfcat said:


> ...snip...For that matter, ask Marilyn Wann now, as she just resigned because the majority of the board insisted on screening _disFigured_ at the convention, a film Kat and I missed because we were exhausted, but that we heard later was a tired and annoying rehash of the dialectic of anorexia and overeating which to my mind went as far as it could go in any constructive way a long time ago.
> 
> ...snip...


 
Personally, I am glad to see Marilyn gone. In my opinion she hurt NAAFA more than she helped it. She was only using NAAFA to promote her personal agenda. Or as Conrad so aptly put it:


> ... NAAFA has generally become a small club run by extremists who arrogantly snap at people and force anyone who they feel threatened by out....



NAAFA has been sorely out of touch with it's membership and volunteers since 2004, and has a long way to go in redeeming itself in the eyes of us (long time members, volunteers, major donors, etc) who were treated like crap by the current NAAFA BOD.

However, a public apology would be a great place to start.


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## Webmaster (Jul 14, 2008)

Sandie S-R said:


> ...The last time NAAFA held "elections" (voted on my the membership) for the BOD was 1992. I ran at that time, and was narrowly defeated by someone else. ...



I remember that one. You ran with Ines Battain, Laura Eljaiek, Lynn Meletiche, Donna Ryan, Frances White and Marc Wolf, and I think the incumbents (Ryan, White, Meletiche) and Eljaiek got in.


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## CurvaceousBBWLover (Jul 14, 2008)

Webmaster said:


> The main problem is that there is not a lot of new blood and whatever seeks to serve and help is generally discouraged. You have some old leftovers that should have retired decades ago and some angry, arrogant folks with their own agendas.
> 
> Board elections used to be a very important thing. Anyone could run for the board and the annual elections were a big deal. We had election committees and election committee meetings, candidates answered questions and presented their qualifications and goals, election materials were mailed out to all members, votes were counted and new board members welcomed. That was an expensive process, and some years there were not enough candidates to fill available seats. So some members were elected by acclaim. Some got on simply because they were friends with a clique or recruited for an agenda. With today's technology, it would be quite easy to once again have real, open elections.
> 
> Board minutes were once made freely available, and board members once freely answered questions through the bulletin boards I had set up. But those were then closed. So NAAFA has generally become a small club run by extremists who arrogantly snap at people and force anyone who they feel threatened by out. Just ask Heather and legions of others.



I first got involved with NAAFA on December 31, 2000. I went to the New Year's Eve dance held by the Baltimore chapter of NAAFA. This unfortunately, was the chapter's final event. 

I found out about NAAFA only because of the internet. I was enamored of the organization and its mission, and I got to attend the national convention in 2004.

I did not do much with the national group, so I am unfamiliar with its politics. What I can say is that I have not attended any of the events with Capital NAAFA in almost 2 years. I left the group because of some of the problems Conrad mentioned:

The officers run the chapter as if it were a clubhouse. They do not accept people with new ideas. They force people not in their clique to leave the group. They refuse to use the internet to reach out to people. Consequently, the only people who show up are people who have been in the organization for many years. 

What ultimately caused me to leave the group was that I was tired of the lack of new people and I was angry with the officers for repeatedly mistreating my friends. Also I felt that I was wasting my gas and wasting my $25 admission fee to show up at the events and not have anyone but the same people show up. And, I found another BBW group in the DC suburbs (Frederick Plus Size Connections) that meet at a local hotel and didn't charge an admission fee, and is run by very caring, considerate people.


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## Deidrababe (Jul 15, 2008)

I joined NAAFA in 1990 - became very active in the local Chapter - NEC-NAAFA and then became active in National as well.

when I first joined, I found it fun and social and also filled with activisim and size acceptance goals - I loved it. Every bit of it.

As I became more involved and more aware of the DRAMA that people focused on - I was a bit put off. What happens in people's personal life should have NOTHING to do with what happens in an organization that they belong to. I stand firm on that.

As years went on, I attended about 10 National Conventions - even met my husband at one of them -

My husband and I both were very active in our local chapter - I held ever board position locally over a period of about 10 years and Nationally I volunteered for the Silent Auction, the Fashion Show and anything else they needed help with. So did my husband Stephen. He did the programs, the flyers, the mail out cards - he worked his butt off on the Auction for years getting donations and was the "runner" for pretty much every person who didn't want to run from point A to Point B - at too many conventions that I can remember - 

What broke me, was the year that neither he nor I were thanked at the farewell brunch. We both worked so hard to make things good and fun and during the speach given to thank people, the person (who I will not name) kept thanking this person and that person and then said, " oh, Let's see, who else? Who Else? Um.....Who Else?" At that point about 20 people in the audience started to mumble "Deidra and Stephen?" And she still never thanked us.

That was also the year I did NOT reicieve an invitation to the donors reception (despite my monthly donations taken from my Credit Card), nor did I or my husband recieve the little plastic "KEY" pin given to Key volunteers.

I'll never forget just how shitty I felt after that.

On a positive note, joining NAAFA did intoduce me to my best friends that I have now...and my husband. So, I guess that is a positive.

I just wish NAAFA as a whole could take a Valium or something and chill out. People want to have fun and relax while they take their summer vacations....and TAKE PICTURES of their friends - and not have someone tell you that you are not allowed to take pictures of your friends. 

Hello?  I'm an adult, these are my friends, this is MY VACATION, AND I scrapbook.

I wish NAAFA could go back to being what it was....but I don't see it happening.

Deeds


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## liz (di-va) (Jul 16, 2008)

Elfcat said:


> For that matter, ask Marilyn Wann now, as she just resigned because the majority of the board insisted on screening _disFigured_ at the convention, a film Kat and I missed because we were exhausted, but that we heard later was a tired and annoying rehash of the dialectic of anorexia and overeating which to my mind went as far as it could go in any constructive way a long time ago.



That's interesting...I have a screening copy of this film I still haven't made it through because I found it so tedious/offensive... Wonder why they had to screen it. Maybe cause the filmmaker was in LA...?

What actually *happened* in Seattle?

(This thread is both useful and very confusing because of how it can be kinda vague at times--which is fine!--Don't get me wrong. I don't mean anybody has to name names or spill their guts more-- but infighting and power issues are the besetting sins of every organization...guess I'm still trying to figure out what makes NAAFA's situation unique, to be totally honest.)

ALso - IMHO - no organization, especially in 2008, can ever "go back" to what it once was--it shouldn't. I don't mean that good elements shouldn't be maintained, but life and technology and the issues at hand are so different than they were even five years ago. I'm appalled at what seems to be the way long-time supporters were treated, but I'd be just as yucked out if this all turned out to be a flip-flop coup, involving in the end just more small groups of people. NAAFA has the potential to -- does -- represent millions of people into a very complicated future. Wish they'd act like it more.

Appreciate people telling their stories --


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## Ruffie (Jul 16, 2008)

Was joining back in 1987 (I think or 86) and when I joined I found there were very few members in Canada. When I inquired if there were any groups or way of finding out if there was anything going on here for NAAFA members I was told -nope. And basically it came down to if you want something why not create it. As I had my own local group, was teaching aerobics for large size folks and had some experience coordinating events and programs I decided to give it a whirl. So this lead to me being the Canadian Area Faciltator of NAAFA. I did so out of my own pocket, doing a newsletter, travelling and doing national publicity as well as talking to people all over the world about size acceptance issues. I loved it and had triped the memberships in Canada before I left. However being not in a major centre it was all long distance and difficult to connect with folks. Then my husband lost his job, and I a full time job and a buisness to care for and our income dropped. At that time I also had 2 small children and old people(parents on both sides) to deal with in addition to a full time job and business, leaving me little time to care for the organization as I wished to. Therefore I gave the post over to a person who was in a major centre down East who had set up an Eastern Chapter of the organization who had been quite vocal about the way I was doing things and figured they could do better, so I said have at it then. I left NAAFA because I didn't like the way the operations were being run. It was all about a persons own experience and what they wanted fir themselves, rather than the agenda as mandated by the organization. As previous posters mentioned there are people in the operation that take these posts to attend to their own personal agendas, rather than for the good of the entire operation. I think NAAFA is basically a good organization with some terrific people in it, but as they say a few bad apples can ruin the whole bunch. I have toyed with the idea of rejoining and just supporting by being a member, going to conventions and such. However, watching this kind of stuff makes me want to try and fix things and help out and I do not have the time for that right now, so have resisted the temptation thus far.

Ruth


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## LillyBBBW (Jul 16, 2008)

My first contact with NAAFA happened in June of 1994. I remember it distinctly because it was the night of the OJ Simpson Bronco chase. I'd heard about NAAFA on one of the talk shows and wanted to learn more and possibly become involved in some way. I spoke with a woman on the phone and was invited to a local chapter meeting in a restaurant. The people I met there were nice enough but the atmosphere seemed strained. An argument broke out once or twice. It seemed there were differing ideas on which agenda was best, one woman became outraged as she felt she had been subtley attacked somehow and would not be deterred from giving a two minute speech defending herself. There were some awkward silences and when the meeting ended most people abruptly left. 

After that meeting I decided NAAFA was a bit more than I could chew at the time, though I still favored some of the positive things that had come out of the organization. I've met some really nice, warm, sincere and friendly people in and through NAAFA but in general I find the atmosphere a bit guarded and suspicious. They are more than happy to take your money with no questions asked but if your total personal choices and beliefs are not exactly aligned with the collective thinking the response toward you can be very stiff no matter what or how much you give or yourself of your money. It makes me wonder if NAAFA really represents fat people or just a fat agenda? I'm not out to offend anybody but this is truly what I think but have been reluctant to say out loud.


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## butch (Jul 16, 2008)

I can't remember what year NAAFA changed its name from "National Association to Aid Fat Americans" to "National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance"? Did this name change result in major shifts in the organization's platform, agenda, public relations? If so, did that in turn affect the membership changes that have been recounted in this thread?


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## TallFatSue (Jul 16, 2008)

I first heard about NAAFA from a newspaper article in 1973, the year I turned 16. By then I was well into my rebellious youth phase, and I had morphed from a junior high schooler who hated being a big tall fat girl into a sarcastic but funny high schooler who made a virtue of necessity and embraced my size. I was very interested in NAAFA, but from a distance -- I had no real interest in joining an organization where the only thing we might have in common was that we were fat. Yes I'm very fat, but that's not all I am. On the other hand, the simple fact that NAAFA existed at all boosted my morale. Wow, an organization that likes fat people! That made me think that for every classmate who called me Suzy Bigfoot or Whale Belly, there were probably several others who thought I was cool just as I was. That in turn gave me enough confidence to muddle through life pretty well, as a supersize girl who became a supersize woman. Ever since, I kept half an eye open for articles about NAAFA just to see what they were up to. I liked when they changed the "FA" in their name to "Fat Acceptance" because that was pretty much my outlook.


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## Dogzilla (Jul 16, 2008)

Like most people my main problems with NAAFA has always been lack of specific information about the organizations finances and disclosure of how donated money is spent. 

As a tax exempt nonprofit organization NAAFA is required by law to provide financial record to anyone who requests them. Much in the same way publicly held corporations are required to provide financial information in annual reports. 

I know in the past even local chapters have had problems getting specific information from the national office. 

All NAAFA tax forms are public record and are available to be seen at a website called guidestar.org. Guidestar is a free website that provides information about nonprofit organizations. I did a quick search and found that NAAFA tax records through 2006 are currently available. 

Sample of information from year 2006 tax form. 
- One of the co-chairs only spent 1 hour a week doing NAAFA stuff. That is not so bad, not much of a commitment really, so sounds easy to be on the board. 

They also took in more money then they spend in FY 2006. Took in $85,864 and spend $61,879. Not bad for an organization doing so poorly. 

Feel free to look up more information about NAAFA at guidestar.com 
Search for NAAFA or EIN 23-7296874.

Please note this is all public information, so no one legally should have a problem with information posted here. 

Thanks!


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## ekmanifest (Jul 17, 2008)

All this information is available in their 990 which is located at:

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2007/237/296/2007-237296874-038654f5-Z.pdf

I was shocked at how little this national organization is raising when I looked at this I assumed it was a chapter - but it looks like it is for the national organization.


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## Ruffie (Jul 17, 2008)

butch said:


> I can't remember what year NAAFA changed its name from "National Association to Aid Fat Americans" to "National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance"? Did this name change result in major shifts in the organization's platform, agenda, public relations? If so, did that in turn affect the membership changes that have been recounted in this thread?



My understanding was that the name was changed because they were wanting to embrace members from other countries other than the USA.
Ruth


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## Sandie S-R (Jul 17, 2008)

missaf said:


> Wow, I raised their total 2 year earnings in 5 months this year, and I wasn't even trying hard.



Well, there's your answer. 

NAAFA hasn't been trying at all. Again, they've been alienating major donors and key volunteers (those of us that contributed not only tons of time, but lots of money) for the last 5 years now. 

It is not surprising that they show so little income. Very few are willing to support them any more, because they are nothing more than a joke.


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## SoVerySoft (Jul 17, 2008)

Ruffie said:


> My understanding was that the name was changed because they were wanting to embrace members from other countries other than the USA.
> Ruth



It changed for a few reasons. First "Aid Fat Americans" sounded so pathetic. They were aiding us? We need aid? And second, the members were from other countries also, not just the U.S. And third, a name that sounded more activism oriented was a key motivation.


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## ekmanifest (Jul 17, 2008)

Does anyone have any thoughts on this new COFRA organization that is forming?


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## Ruffie (Jul 17, 2008)

SoVerySoft said:


> It changed for a few reasons. First "Aid Fat Americans" sounded so pathetic. They were aiding us? We need aid? And second, the members were from other countries also, not just the U.S. And third, a name that sounded more activism oriented was a key motivation.



Thanks for letting me know the whole reason SVS.
Ruth


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## EtobicokeFA (Jul 18, 2008)

Sandie S-R said:


> Well, there's your answer.
> 
> NAAFA hasn't been trying at all. Again, they've been alienating major donors and key volunteers (those of us that contributed not only tons of time, but lots of money) for the last 5 years now.
> 
> It is not surprising that they show so little income. Very few are willing to support them any more, because they are nothing more than a joke.



But, who the alternative?


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## butch (Jul 18, 2008)

ekmanifest said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on this new COFRA organization that is forming?



I have high hopes for it, but I think it will run into some of the same problems NAAFA does-lack of support. I think that people forget how much time and effort and money go into any advocacy organization, especially one that is entirely volunteer run, like COFRA is. I also think they at this point are too focused on the blog/internet component of fat activism, and I hope that in the future they do try and push outside of the comfort zone of like minded people who congregate in the fatosphere. As much as the internet is a contact zone where all different sorts of people come together to interact, it can also set up an insular space where one forgets that the 'rest of the the world' doesn't think or act the way they do.

This is a particular danger for fat activism, I think, because I think a lot of us forget that even though we're told that over 60% of the US is fat, the percentage of those people with fat positive or fat activist leanings is much smaller (I'd say A LOT smaller, but I have no way to back this up). I think as long as we continue to focus on fat activism both in real life and online, we'll make progress. If we stick to the internet only, we'll miss out on reaching a lot of people who are otherwise receptive to our message of fat acceptance.

BTW, NAAFA's website is redesigned, and I like the new format. It must have been timed to the convention, because I think this change is really recent.


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## ekmanifest (Jul 18, 2008)

butch said:


> I have high hopes for it, but I think it will run into some of the same problems NAAFA does-lack of support. I think that people forget how much time and effort and money go into any advocacy organization, especially one that is entirely volunteer run, like COFRA is.



This is really my consulting area of expertise - bringing volunteer-run organizations into the reality world of having to raise money, operate like a professional organization, and use volunteers in a way that focuses on their strengths. I've thought about volunteering with them. Are you involved at all from a volunteer perspective?


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## liz (di-va) (Jul 18, 2008)

ekmanifest said:


> This is really my consulting area of expertise - bringing volunteer-run organizations into the reality world of having to raise money, operate like a professional organization, and use volunteers in a way that focuses on their strengths. I've thought about volunteering with them. Are you involved at all from a volunteer perspective?



Boy, would they ever be lucky to get *you*.

I have-- had-- experience in the world of development, fwiw...worked as a prospect researcher for 8 yrs. Wonder what other buried fundraising skills there are around here?


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## Elfcat (Jul 28, 2008)

Kat and I went to the convention, then to visit my mom and Kat's cousin in the L.A. area, then broke East for the Bash.

We only went for the weekend, so didn't get the whole experience this time, and due to wanting to get together with family nearby on Sunday we missed the Last Words, which I usually like to stay for because that is where a lot of discussion goes on about what went well and what could have been better.

There were a few snafus, one of which I had to literally chase down. Kat had drawn some original art for the silent auction. Due to what must have been an oversight in registration, this artwork got wrapped up and put in bags of assorted things for the raffle. Which would raise money for the organization either way, but stuff wrapped up in a raffle bag doesn't get seen by everyone. I'll admit to having a selfish desire to see my wife's work exposed to the community, as she has been on hiatus since moving to my house, is away from her traditional customer base, and has been feeling really good about including more specifically fat art in her repertoire. I found two of the three drawings, after going on a classically Taurean rampage; I assume one must have been raffled off before the auction at which they had gone missing. I will say the two organizations were very gracious to have run done a short auction of the artwork at the joint NAAFA/ASDAH luncheon on Saturday. And some commented that it may have done better because many of the presumably more affluent ASDAH members were at their own workshops rather than the auction on Friday.

I would say to a large extent Kat and I felt a lot of the best emotional energy from the Los Angeles local chapter people, Lesleigh and Julianne and their crew. In fact I commented to Lesleigh that it occurred to me that her way of approaching issues of feminism and FAs' role in the group reminded me a lot of the approach of Carrie Hemenway, the long-ago chair of the Feminist Special Interest Group who was one of my favorite leaders in NAAFA in the late 80s and early 90s. "Feminism with a human face," I described it.

For that matter, whatever happened to Carrie Hemenway? Do any of the ancients know?

It seems increasingly that there is more polarity between groups like NAAFA, which seem to be turning more to being politically doctrinaire and standoffish from some of the larger fat culture (the "Young Turks" of the L.A. Chapter and some others outside the national leadership being a hopeful exception), and the attendees of functions like the Bash who apply fat-acceptance or size-acceptance more in a cultural form than a political one. Personally I think a tenable political agenda grows only out of a cultural context. Of course Dimensions readers find themselves in the position of having beaten back, at least to a palpable extent, the campaign of desexualization directed at fat folk for so long, only now to be dealing, in some troubling ways at times, with the flavor of sexualization that is taking its place, a flavor that in the following week at the Bash was the nucleus of at least one stalking a victim reported to me outside one event, and of the act of petty sabotage which rattled the Bashers as they woke for the farewell signings, some of them hours before at the sounding of a fire alarm. When even the "Man Hour" is dominated by a rather clinical sounding analysis of what "gets you brownie points" with women, as if they all respond the same to exactly the same actions, and doesn't seem to generate much interest in those fellow FAs who bothered to show up to participate in much coherently political, it leaves me rather emptyhanded when faced with scathing assessments of FAs from more political quarters... as emptyhanded as I was when the NAAFA Board sent me home without anything to say to keep our chapter together.

Which is why I will always be looking to throw my support to some activist organization, whether it be a revived NAAFA or COFRA, and really ultimately I think we really need a political action committee to work concretely, rather than in the merely peripheral ways a 501(c)3 is allowed, on outlawing discrimination based on body type in far more locations than it has been, and on making Health At Every Size an integral part of governmental health policy. I really don't care at this point if I'm one of three fat-admirers in the joint. Evidently my attempt to refer to some as comrades falls on deaf ears.

Well, there's my shot over the bow of you mere booty hunters for the thread. Prove me wrong, please!


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## Babyface (Oct 7, 2008)

Webmaster said:


> So NAAFA has generally become a small club run by extremists who arrogantly snap at people and force anyone who they feel threatened by out.


Conrad, I greatly respect the effort and resources you have given to NAAFA through the years.

However, I have to point out that this sentence could very easily have been written by any number of people who felt run out by the events of the 1995 national convention. It has the feeling of the wheel coming full circle.


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## Babyface (Oct 7, 2008)

ekmanifest said:


> Does anyone have any thoughts on this new COFRA organization that is forming?


I'm unfamiliar with said organization - can you provide a pointer to information on it? Thanks!


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## Babyface (Oct 7, 2008)

liz (di-va) said:


> What actually *happened* in Seattle?


You'll get different answers from different people, depending on their perspectives of the situation, and their personal opinions.

I won't go into my interpretation of the causes, but I will put out some irrefutable facts.

There was a strained and tense board meeting, which nearly was taken into Executive session in order to remove the non-Board members in attendance.

Some time after that session, five (or was it four?) Board members resigned.

Many of the membership were polarized. Some by loyalty to specific people. Some by agreement with or disagreement with specific messages and tactics. There was very little space for middle ground allowed by the situation.

Some time after the convention, a sixth board member also resigned.


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