# FA Frustrations



## huge (Jan 13, 2015)

Do you guys feel like you have a less active dating life because of your preferences?

That's to say, do you find it harder to meet women and take them out? / Feel like you see more thin girls than fat girls?

Also, swinger, single, married, or in a relationship?


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## magodamilion (Jan 13, 2015)

Yeah I fully agree with that. 

I'm an FFA with a completely inactive dating life and I think that's part of it, sheer numbers. 

If approximately 15% of the general population is obese and more older people are then younger people, we could estimate that maybe 5% of guys under 30 are BHM's. And out of that small number about 99.999% of them aren't attracted to me or are married or are religious. I wish I could reprogram myself to be into whoever happens to be interested in me (which is barely anyone) but that just isn't physically possible.


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## Amaranthine (Jan 14, 2015)

magodamilion said:


> If approximately 15% of the general population is obese and more older people are then younger people, we could estimate that maybe 5% of guys under 30 are BHM's. And out of that small number about 99.999% of them aren't attracted to me or are married or are religious.



I agree that numbers are a big part of it; when you try to incorporate personal preferences, both physical and mental, it seems as if you're looking at an impractically constricted pool. 

* Realistically speaking, you're just not going to be attracted to all BHMs. General appearance comes into play, hygiene, and the fact that people gain weight in different ways. 

* Intellectually and personality-wise, you're also just not going to be compatible with many, _many_ people. Regardless of their body. Especially when religiousness is a deal-breaker, though I haven't had much trouble finding fellow seculars online or in school. Then again, I do not live in Texas. 

* Insecurity + body issues: FAs probably have to deal with that obstacle more than the average non-FA. 

Personally, I've never really been approached by a BHM. Plenty of thin men. Women don't typically have to adopt the role of the pursuer, but I think being an FFA might change that dynamic a bit, in many cases. I'm currently in a relationship; my dating life has actually been, comparatively, very active...except that wouldn't be the case if I hadn't also dated non-BHMs. At times I've definitely wished I had a wider range of attraction.


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## The Orange Mage (Jan 14, 2015)

Being real with myself helped this regards. The various "things" I have narrowed things down over time quite a bit.

First I realized while young I liked fat women. Okay, simple enough. However, I realized shortly thereafter that most women hated being fat and being with someone who liked that aspect of them wasn't going to work.

This point would have been in high school, so as you might imagine, finding a fat girl who liked her body as much as I did was impossible.

Then I got my head out of my ass and realized I was feedist. This had a dual effect because a large percentage of women who identify as feedees love their bodies! However, there are simply very very few feedees out there. I got lucky and hit it off with someone who was.

(Later I would realize I'm trans, which narrows things down further to trans-accepting lesbians, bisexuals, pansexuals, etc. IT'S BEEN A HELL OF A RIDE LEMME TELL YA)


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## choudhury (Jan 14, 2015)

Speaking as a male FA, I don't think there is a shortage of BBWs out there. If we're talking about extreme obesity, then yes, but if we mean by 'BBW' all women who are significantly overweight, then the percentages seem pretty good.

My frustrations, back when I was dating (I'm married now), were twofold:

1. A lot of attractive BBWs didn't _present_ themselves as attractive. They had, I felt and still feel, a disproportionate tendency to dress drably, for instance. Low self-esteem is obviously a factor in this, and outward style and expression of low self-regard. Speaking purely a 'selfish' viewpoint, seeing beauty hiding itself under baggy shirts, hoodies, etc., is uninspiring and a bit gloomy, and it's hard to be super-excited about asking someone out when they're radiating indifference to themselves.

2. I had my own self-esteem issues, and being an FA made it harder. It was as if there was an extra layer of confusion/insecurity, centred in having unfashionable preferences, added to the fairly normal confusion and insecurities of being a single young person. That said, FAness wasn't the main problem. But it didn't help my confidence any to have my tastes be regarded by male friends or associates as 'weird' or 'disgusting.' (The latter being a word I would NEVER use regarding the body of any woman).


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## lille (Jan 15, 2015)

choudhury said:


> 1. A lot of attractive BBWs didn't _present_ themselves as attractive. They had, I felt and still feel, a disproportionate tendency to dress drably, for instance. Low self-esteem is obviously a factor in this, and outward style and expression of low self-regard. Speaking purely a 'selfish' viewpoint, seeing beauty hiding itself under baggy shirts, hoodies, etc., is uninspiring and a bit gloomy, and it's hard to be super-excited about asking someone out when they're radiating indifference to themselves.


Along with self esteem, you need to factor in the fact that fat women are told they cannot wear the same fashionable things as thinner women, and that their choices are much more limited because fewer stores sell fashionable clothing in plus sizes. And some of the places that sell plus sizes just sell larger versions of smaller clothes, instead of designing things meant to fit and flatter larger bodies. Even if they want to dress well, it's harder than it would be for a thinner woman.


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## choudhury (Jan 15, 2015)

lille said:


> Along with self esteem, you need to factor in the fact that fat women are told they cannot wear the same fashionable things as thinner women, and that their choices are much more limited because fewer stores sell fashionable clothing in plus sizes. And some of the places that sell plus sizes just sell larger versions of smaller clothes, instead of designing things meant to fit and flatter larger bodies. Even if they want to dress well, it's harder than it would be for a thinner woman.


 
That's a good point. And I've never understood this. If 1/3 of the population is overweight, that is a huge market (excuse the pun). Why don't retailers supply nice clothes to that under-served demographic? It seems like they're leaving profits on the table for no reason other than fat-phobia.

The flip side of this is that you do see BBWs now and then presenting themselves very stylishly. I was knocked out a little while ago by a twentysomething BBW in a bookstore who was wearing a really stylin' fall jacket and scarf and just looked gorgeous. So, some BBWs do find ways to present themselves attractively. I still think a disproportionate number prefer to take the "what's the use?" approach, and - from the "FA frustration" standpoint - that's really too bad.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jan 15, 2015)

choudhury said:


> The flip side of this is that you do see BBWs now and then presenting themselves very stylishly.



There'$ probably a rea$on for thi$. BBW's tell me that really nice clothes in large sizes are disproportionately more expensive than in misses' sizes, even taking into account the fact that they require more material. This may be changing as businessmen slowly come to realize how much demand there is for style in larger sizes. At least we can hope.


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## Tad (Jan 15, 2015)

This will overlap somewhat with lower self-esteem, but only in part: some fat people really prefer not to be noticed. Presumably because their experience is that being noticed brings bad things more than good things. This will tend to result in clothing and general fashion choices meant to camouflage and fade, rather than to stand out and reveal. Not good for FA that want to see those fat bodies, but it may be making life less stressful for the person inside the clothes.


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## Marlayna (Jan 15, 2015)

Tad said:


> This will overlap somewhat with lower self-esteem, but only in part: some fat people really prefer not to be noticed. Presumably because their experience is that being noticed brings bad things more than good things. This will tend to result in clothing and general fashion choices meant to camouflage and fade, rather than to stand out and reveal. Not good for FA that want to see those fat bodies, but it may be making life less stressful for the person inside the clothes.


Very perceptive. :bow:


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## olwen (Jan 16, 2015)

choudhury said:


> That's a good point. And I've never understood this. If 1/3 of the population is overweight, that is a huge market (excuse the pun). Why don't retailers supply nice clothes to that under-served demographic? It seems like they're leaving profits on the table for no reason other than fat-phobia.
> 
> The flip side of this is that you do see BBWs now and then presenting themselves very stylishly. I was knocked out a little while ago by a twentysomething BBW in a bookstore who was wearing a really stylin' fall jacket and scarf and just looked gorgeous. So, some BBWs do find ways to present themselves attractively. I still think a disproportionate number prefer to take the "what's the use?" approach, and - from the "FA frustration" standpoint - that's really too bad.



There is a whole fatshion world out there where fat girls have to go out of our way to find awesome clothes. But that's just it. We have to go out of our way. Nice fashionable clothes have to be curated like museum pieces because they are so hard to find. Not every girl (even skinny ones) is into fashion to begin with. Some girls are girly girls and some prefer to dress more masculine and some like a mix of both. 

Clothing manufactures cite the expense to make larger sizes as the reason they don't offer them. Some bullshit about having to buy new sets of equipment and new patterns, and new fit models, not just more fabric as cost prohibitive. There was recently a petition going around to old navy because a woman noticed the men's plus size pants cost the same as straight sizes but that women's plus size pants cost twice as much even tho the sizes for plus size men and women were comparable. Old Navy said the cost was higher for plus size women's clothes because of the cost of production was higher for reasons I stated above. So the kinds of clothes we'd like to wear often just don't exist, or if they do they cost too much. So we end up wearing what fits and what is affordable. Because fashion rules dictate that fat girls should only wear certain kinds of clothes the choices are sometimes drab. A girl cannot live in poly-cotton blends alone. 

Some fat girls do prefer comfort over style. Some days I wear super cute dresses and some days I wear a tshirt and a pair of jeans. I really hope on the days I'm wearing a tshirt and jeans that dudes don't think I'm not trying, cause on those days I'm really not thinking about what a dude is going to think. I'm just thinking that I'd really like to wear a doctor who tshirt and a pair of jeans with my addidas that day cause I feel like it.


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## fritzi (Jan 16, 2015)

olwen said:


> Clothing manufactures cite the expense to make larger sizes as the reason they don't offer them.



From my observation it at least in part has to something to do with it that fashion companies prize image almost as much as they do profit. 

I'm a size 14-16, meaning I can shop at the upper end of regular sizes and at the lower end of real plus-sizes.

With regular sizes at the begin of the season, you find like 5 pieces of a style stocked in size 4-8, 4 items in size 10-12 and only 2 items in size 14-16. At the end of the season the picture mostly is 4 pieces size 4, 3 pieces size 6 and 1 piece size 8 as leftovers on sale. 

This isn't a one-off, but a regular pattern you'll find in most stores. To me it seems that fashion retailers are more keen on maintaining their image of making fashion for thin, trendy, chic women than for the actual shopping demographic. And it can be assumed that the bigger the size, the more potentially image damaging it sees to a fashion company. For a business perspective I don't get it...


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jan 16, 2015)

fritzi said:


> To me it seems that fashion retailers are more keen on maintaining their image of making fashion for thin, trendy, chic women than for the actual shopping demographic. And it can be assumed that the bigger the size, the more potentially image damaging it sees to a fashion company. For a business perspective I don't get it...



After thirty years of attempting to teach business majors, I seriously doubt that American industry is run by the brightest crayons in the box.


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## loopytheone (Jan 16, 2015)

The talk about clothes and stuff is very interesting to me. Especially as I am a BBW and have noticed that people can treat me very differently depending on the way I am dressed.

Most of the time I dress I dress in trainers, sweat pants, a men's t-shirt, no bra, no makeup, and just brushed but not styled hair. This is normal for me because this is how I feel comfortable. But often, when dressed like this, I get disregarded and ignored.

The other day I was going to view a flat and so had to look 'responsible' and so went out in makeup, hair up and styled, long skirt, boots etc and the way I am looked at and responded to is very different. I am taken more seriously by people when I am dressed like that. I find it pretty frustrating as I find being done up like this seriously uncomfortable, like I am in drag or something. It doesn't seem fair I get treated so much better when I look that way.

It is also frustrating to me that so many people negatively judge a woman for not wearing 'nice' clothes. There is even some of that on this board, with the implication that unless a woman is dressed stylishly then she has low self esteem, or she is trying to hide herself, or she has given up on life. That's kinda a horrible thing to assume/put on someone when you think about it, isn't it? I mean, it hurts to think that people think I have 'given up on myself' just because I'm fat and prefer the style of clothes that I like.

Just a thought for you all.


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## YoJoshua (Jan 16, 2015)

Tad said:


> This will overlap somewhat with lower self-esteem, but only in part: some fat people really prefer not to be noticed. Presumably because their experience is that being noticed brings bad things more than good things. This will tend to result in clothing and general fashion choices meant to camouflage and fade, rather than to stand out and reveal. Not good for FA that want to see those fat bodies, but it may be making life less stressful for the person inside the clothes.



I have found this to be true as well. There was a woman I knew who deliberately "kept herself at a high weight" because when she did, men looked right past her, and that's how she wanted it. When she lost weight and men started coming at her with sexual energy, ie "I would tap that" she didn't like it. She also said being fat was a way to make people get to know her, to "look past" her body. I don't think she had an idea that there were guys who would like her BECAUSE of her high weight. This was a long time ago, and one person doesn't represent everyone but it was illuminating for me personally. Everyone always makes blanket assumptions about why someone is big but there are so many, many different nuances and reasons, some biological, some emotional, some sexual, or all the above.


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## bigmac (Jan 16, 2015)

huge said:


> Do you guys feel like you have a less active dating life because of your preferences?
> 
> That's to say, do you find it harder to meet women and take them out?
> ...



When I was dating I would see lots of attractive large women. However, I usually encountered them in situations were it would be inappropriate to approach them. Women -- fat or thin -- generally don't like being approached by a stranger while they're trying to get their grocery shopping done. 

In situations and at places where women are generally more open to being approached (i.e. bars, pubs, clubs, parties) large women are a rarity. In effect, by staying home, many large women take themselves out of the dating pool. BBW events ameliorate this situation for a certain demographic only.


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## YoJoshua (Jan 16, 2015)

bigmac said:


> When I was dating I would see lots of attractive large women. However, I usually encountered them in situations were it would be inappropriate to approach them. Women -- fat or thin -- generally don't like being approached by a stranger while they're trying to get their grocery shopping done.
> 
> In situations and at places where women are generally more open to being approached (i.e. bars, pubs, clubs, parties) large women are a rarity. In effect, by staying home, many large women take themselves out of the dating pool. BBW events ameliorate this situation for a certain demographic only.



I have to disagree with this, while respecting your experience and loving the word "ameliorate"...

Grocery stores in my opinion are some of the greatest places to make conversation with attractive strangers! I love to cook and I find so many women are ready to "assist" you when you say, "I am trying to make this lasagna, but I don't know if I should use frozen spinach or fresh..." etc.  

I am talking about true conversation, not conversation with a subtext of "The whole reason I am talking to you is to get you to come home with me and take your clothes off."


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## bigmac (Jan 16, 2015)

Maybe some people can get away with approaching random women. However some of us are more likely to get pepper sprayed than to get a phone number.

If you're a guy and you fit a stereotype of what a "bad" guy looks like you have to tread very lightly.


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## FatAndProud (Jan 16, 2015)

bigmac said:


> Maybe some people can get away with approaching random women. However some of us are more likely to get pepper sprayed than to get a phone number.
> 
> If you're a guy and you fit a stereotype of what a "bad" guy looks like you have to tread very lightly.



You suck at asking women out, we get it. You're married so don't worry about it. However, don't be jealous of other men that have the big brass balls to ask a woman out, regardless of her weight. Grown men need to grow up. Ugggghhhhhhh.


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## bigmac (Jan 16, 2015)

FatAndProud said:


> You suck at asking women out, we get it. You're married so don't worry about it. However, don't be jealous of other men that have the big brass balls to ask a woman out, regardless of her weight. Grown men need to grow up. Ugggghhhhhhh.


 
While I didn't and wouldn't accost women on the street I did manage to hook-up with my fair share of females. Indeed many more than most of the guys with "balls" you reference. Propositioning women on the street is actually the polar opposite of what it means to be a grown-up.


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## Yakatori (Jan 16, 2015)

Yeah, she might be projecting here:



FatAndProud said:


> "_...don't be jealous of other men that have the big brass balls to ask a woman out, regardless of her weight...._"


Not any kind of pick-up artist; but, just based on my own personal observation of compare and contrast amongst peers: The guys who're actually most "successful" at this, it's not because they have such a great deal of confidence or _fight_. Although, maybe just a bit more than average. Either just when it comes to this or in general.

It really has more to do with how they don't really have so much invested in talking or negotiating with any one person. They literally approach hundreds if not thousands of people in the course of a week's time.

Intuitively, they seem to know precisely just how much to put into a relationship as to barely maintain it. But, again, it's more about volume; against the odds of such a wide pool, they're practically guaranteed to "get lucky" with a (relatively) much more consistent frequency.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jan 16, 2015)

loopytheone said:


> The other day I was going to view a flat and so had to look 'responsible' and so went out in makeup, hair up and styled, long skirt, boots etc and the way I am looked at and responded to is very different. I am taken more seriously by people when I am dressed like that.



This applies just as much to men as to women. I get a WHOLE lot more respect when I'm wearing a coat and tie; when I'm in a three-piece suit with a gold watch chain peeking out of my vest I can pretty much call the shots. And this also ties in with what the other posters have said about meeting women. I enjoyed considerable success back in the day, and I attribute much of it to the fact that I dressed the part: crisp shirt, freshly pressed slacks, hair washed, freshly shaved, just a hint of after shave. In other words, I projected an image of cleanliness and responsibility that would make most Boy Scouts look louche. I truly believe that clothes make the man (or woman) -- at least in the eyes of most of the world.


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## Yakatori (Jan 17, 2015)

bigmac said:


> "_Maybe some people can get away with approaching random women. However some of us are more likely to get pepper sprayed than to get a phone number.
> 
> If you're a guy and you fit a stereotype of what a "bad" guy looks like you have to tread very lightly._"


This is a bit of a cop-out; because, as *YoJoshua* is beginning to touch-upon, you're conflating a whole series of intermediate steps that most people manage to negotiate without talking or thinking about it too much. 

I mean, just for a second, hypothetically, take it out of a dating or sexual context. And into networking. Or sales. Obviously, you're undercutting yourself to just walk up to anyone you have no previous history with only to ask them for something, anything, straight-away. (And yet, there ARE people who succeed in doing precisely that, just about every day). No, first you have to introduce yourself. 

And then you have to give them at least some opportunity in order to reciprocate. To articulate or somehow telegraph a language or set of terms through which the two of you can continue to relate towards each other.

And then it can gradually progress beyond the scope of that original introduction, or whatever terms contained therein. To the extent that the other party is allowing it. For which you, of course, consider it to be out of your hands. 

Except, it really isn't because, among a myriad of other things, their decision is at least partly based on how you are behaving toward them. Generally, if you are attentive, polite, considerate, etc...people you are approaching will more so tend to mirror that behavior. And, to some extent, in contrast with...how they truly are, or what they're feeling, or what they think of you or your proposition. Although, again, at this particular stage, you shouldn't yet even be entering into any of that..

Because, at this point, it's about getting in sync, learning each other's respective pace and adjusting accordingly. Giving only as much as they will readily take and, simultaneously, listening to and hearing them, being demonstrative of all of that.

Obviously, some people are real good at all of this. They do it in a way that just makes it all look so simple. They read people & establish report in a relatively quick & efficient process. Still, it doesn't change the basic fact of how there are discrete steps involved.

Once you fully appreciate that, & commit to it; only then can you really begin to go on about how receptive someone is or isn't to whatever you're selling. And, of course, after you repeat that process a few thousand times over; okay, then you have some better idea of the innate marketability of some particular product. 

So, yes, its fair to say that many woman, if not most people-in general, dont like being approached by strangers. (Does anyone? Whats your reaction to seeing an unfamiliar number on your caller-ID? Its a nuisance, an imposition, etc ) However, the very object of the exercise in an introduction is to be able to move past that phase relatively quickly. In that sense, virtually every human relationship begins the same way, between two strangers meeting as such.



bigmac said:


> "_...In situations and at places where women are generally more open to being approached (i.e. bars, pubs, clubs, parties) large women are a rarity. In effect, by staying home, many large women take themselves out of the dating pool. BBW events ameliorate this situation for a certain demographic only._"


Youre right in that there are situations where it's not really appropriate to ask someone out or hit on them. Probably many fewer where a simple, polite introduction is either frowned upon, or otherwise necessarily viewed within a context of some suspicion.

However, it bears mentioning here that where lots "shy guys" tend to go wrong is in the idea of just perpetually looking at someone, staring & then looking away, without any word at all. Honestly, that frightens people, is more (vaguely) threatening in general, worse than any ham-handed type of approach. Really, that is a case of a shy person doing what's easiest, less-painful, etc...just for them. And necessarily at the expense of the feelings, comfort, etc...of the person they're dealing with.

Seriously. If you see someone who you find more than mildly physically attractive, or even if theyre just a bit odd or different-looking, and you think you just might be a bit tempted to stare; instead, force yourself to first say something, like "_Hey, how's going?_...

Or, "_Excuse me, _... as you're walking past. Or even as a guy interacting with other guys, just a simple verbal acknowledgement delivered in the appropriately warm, relaxed tone can be very disarming.

Also, I can appreciate the point of how for lots of guys, perhaps most average guys, that approaching women in the type of situations where its more expected feels easier, more comfortable. However, again, that something _seems-easier_, more _comfortable_, ect is not really the same as it being _advantageous_. And so, hypothetically, for whatever group of people tends to take themselves out of that kind of milieu (night club, singles-event, mixer party, live music venue, etc) it doesnt really reduce the level of opportunity for connecting with them as such; but, in actuality, widens or broadens the range of it.

Of course, if you're not prepared to take advantage in those kind of situations, then it probably makes no difference either way...


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## choudhury (Jan 17, 2015)

loopytheone said:


> The talk about clothes and stuff is very interesting to me. Especially as I am a BBW and have noticed that people can treat me very differently depending on the way I am dressed.
> 
> Most of the time I dress I dress in trainers, sweat pants, a men's t-shirt, no bra, no makeup, and just brushed but not styled hair. This is normal for me because this is how I feel comfortable. But often, when dressed like this, I get disregarded and ignored.
> 
> ...


 
Well, people should certainly dress however they want. 

I have two thoughts about this, though...first of all, 'comfort' is as much about _what we're used to_ as something intrinsic to a piece of clothing or style of self-presentation. Often people describe dressing down as 'comfortable' for this reason, rather than because there is something _physically_ uncomfortable about wearing more polished clothes (although I'll admit this isn't true of high heels, say). But 'comfortable' becomes a less convincing rationale (to the extent that a rationale is needed) when it's just rooted in the fact that I feel weird when I dress in a stylin' way, because I'm not used to it. Lots of things feel weird when we're not used to them, but it doesn't follow that we're better off avoiding them because of that.

The other thought is that the thread is called 'FA frustrations,' and one of my personal frustrations as an FA is that a much smaller per centage of overweight women present themselves in the polished, stylish manner that I personally fine appealing. I'm sure lots of guys don't care if their lady dresses in sweat pants and sneakers, with minimal care given to their hair, etc., just as I'm sure many women don't care if their guy goes around in similar attire. But I _personally_ tend to be a little more put together myself; I actually enjoy looking kinda sharp; and I find the same quality attractive in women. And for better or worse, yes, I do tend to think that self-esteem is one reason why so many fewer BBWs appear not to bother as much with self-presentation. Not the only reason, but one reason.

Self-presentation is not the same as going 'girly,' incidentally - at least not in my book. I described a woman wearing a fashionable jacket and a scarf (I forget if she had on a skirt or whatever). It was the 'together' and tastefully statement-making way she presented herself that attracted me, not high heels and ruby red lipstick or something. Ultimately, an_ aesthetic sensibility_ is what I seem to be talking about.


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## Marlayna (Jan 17, 2015)

I only like very comfortable clothes, but they have to be clean and unstained, or else I'll look sloppy, and that says to people that I don't care about myself.
For some reason, people treat you better when they see you care.
When I was single and going out "man-hunting", I'd dress to the nines; sexy clothes, high heels, and an hour getting my hair and make-up just right.
Now that I'm a married woman, I rarely put that much time and effort into my "presentation"... I guess I pulled a bait & switch on him.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jan 17, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> When I was single and going out "man-hunting", I'd dress to the nines; sexy clothes, high heels, and an hour getting my hair and make-up just right.
> Now that I'm a married woman, I rarely put that much time and effort into my "presentation"... I guess I pulled a bait & switch on him.



The most exciting thing after your honeymoon is finding out what sort of changeling the fairies left in place of the person you married.


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## magodamilion (Jan 18, 2015)

Amaranthine said:


> I agree that numbers are a big part of it; when you try to incorporate personal preferences, both physical and mental, it seems as if you're looking at an impractically constricted pool.
> 
> I'm currently in a relationship; my dating life has actually been, comparatively, very active...except that wouldn't be the case if I hadn't also dated non-BHMs. At times I've definitely wished I had a wider range of attraction.



So how'd you manage to get an active dating life then? It sounds like you're essentially in the same boat as me. I'm asking in genuine curiosity because I'm not sure what to do really.

Lately I've hit on so many BHM guys in bars and it never goes anywhere. They rarely even give me their numbers. Someone needs to develop some type of Pick Up Artist advice directed at women because no one ever seems to consider the problem of women who have no game at all. I'm nice and I give specific compliments not generic ones. I don't get what these guys issue is. I don't think it's insecurity like you all on here assume. There's a lot of diversity within the BHM population. They're not all skittish insecure people most of them are absurdly picky and I have no idea what they're looking for.


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## bigmac (Jan 18, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> ...
> 
> For some reason, people treat you better when they see you care.
> When I was single and going out "man-hunting", I'd dress to the nines; sexy clothes, high heels, and an hour getting my hair and make-up just right.
> ...


 
This only works on some men. I made a conscious effort to avoid women who couldn't get ready in 15 minutes or less or who spent an inordinate amount of money on clothes.


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## Marlayna (Jan 18, 2015)

bigmac said:


> This only works on some men. I made a conscious effort to avoid women who couldn't get ready in 15 minutes or less or who spent an inordinate amount of money on clothes.


I don't blame you, waiting on a primper is annoying. Men who primp are especially bad, imo.


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## loopytheone (Jan 19, 2015)

choudhury said:


> I have two thoughts about this, though...first of all, 'comfort' is as much about _what we're used to_ as something intrinsic to a piece of clothing or style of self-presentation. Often people describe dressing down as 'comfortable' for this reason, rather than because there is something _physically_ uncomfortable about wearing more polished clothes (although I'll admit this isn't true of high heels, say). But 'comfortable' becomes a less convincing rationale (to the extent that a rationale is needed) when it's just rooted in the fact that I feel weird when I dress in a stylin' way, because I'm not used to it. Lots of things feel weird when we're not used to them, but it doesn't follow that we're better off avoiding them because of that.



Whilst I do understand what you are saying I don't think you fully understand how uncomfortable certain clothes can be for other people, especially BBW. For a start, I was talking about physical comfort rather than psychological comfort, though I admit I didn't make that clear. 

For me personally, any type of trousers with a button at the front are physically painful. So I don't wear jeans and haven't in years. Same with a belt. I don't know how big you are so I don't know if this is something you would be familiar with, but when you have a belly and you sit down, your belly will spill over the belt/button and it will dig painfully into the underside of your stomach. I have had bruises from buttons when I sit down like that, even if the waistband is loose standing up. I also don't and wont wear trousers/skirts that don't have an elastic waistband (again, when you sit down the material is pulled backwards to accommodate your rear and so cuts your stomach in half) or that fasten around the waist rather than the hips, as my stomach is extremely sensitive and any kind of pressure there is physically painful to me. 

I also don't wear bras all the time as the sides of them cause me bruising and sores. And I've not been able to wear a button up blouse of any kind since I was a teenager as my size 20 chest and size 14 waist make shirts either expose my breasts or look like some sort of tent. As for shoes, I have inflamed tendons in my feet and need the added support that trainers give. 

For the record, I wear dresses, skirts, boots etc quite regularly. But I don't think that a lot of people understand that when they expect somebody who is bigger to be 'fashionable' or wear a certain type of clothing, they are often asking them to wear something that is physically painful for them. And I don't think it is fair to judge somebody negatively because they don't want to be in pain. And comfortable clothes can be 'stylish', as you put it. I like to think I have a very keen aesthetic taste. But you wont see me in smart trousers and a blouse because those are painful or impractical for me.

Not that I am saying you are wrong to have a preference, not at all. You keep on looking after those stylish ladies, I'm sure they are very beautiful!


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## GypsySummers (Jan 20, 2015)

I apologize this is so long! My thoughts were fluid and I noticed not the length whilst I typed. But I feel like I should interject somewhat on the fashion front with some background knowledge. I myself am larger than "average woman" and have always struggled to find cute clothes as well. I was always disgruntled at the fashion industry for not providing more options and all the other points y'all made so I honestly know the struggle and frustration. But then I got a job IN the fashion industry. 
I was the assistant to a fashion designer for two years. And even one who started specializing in clothes for big breasted women. Then I found out the truth and what they said turned out to be legitimate. When you make a bigger size of a style, you are not simply "using a little more fabric". Quite the contrary. Aside from it being a much more significant fabric usage due to the yards of fabric needed to lay the size appropriate markers down and scrap error, in order to make a garment of any size, it goes to a sample maker, a pattern maker, a marker THEN contractors (the cutters and sewers and dyers and whatnot). The problem starts with the patterns and markers. When you enlarge a size, you are not simply adding an inch around each side or anything like that. You are redesigning it. You have to take into account many things, like belly size will make the shirt rise and shorter or the pants higher, arm placements and shapes will be different, necklines different., etc. Bigger bodies aren't made like skinny bodies but with just a few inches symmetrically bigger. Larger bodies are a whole different ball game and shape (a beautiful and delicious ball game but different nonetheless).


And that's where all those terribly fitted plus sizes clothes come from that we complain about. From companies trying to put out those sizes while being able to afford it. Because in order to be able to afford production, companies WILL try to cut corners and just add those inches here and there without reformulating the patterns and markers. And what do you get? Clothes that do.not.fit right to a real body. 


There are a lot of designers out there with integrity for quality of work and would LIKE to, in a perfect world, be able to mass produce every size. Of course. Profit and more people wearing your clothes. But it is not always possible with the costs of production. Period. People go bankrupt trying. So instead of putting out terribly fitted clothes, they won't make plus size. Huge companies with the dough could afford to, but with them, it's not so much about money (even though it still is) but about target demographics and company goals.


And the whole thing with Old Navy's men's plus being same price? Men's clothing is different in that men don't generally care how good their butt looks in those pants (aka, allowing for more tolerance of ill-fitting garments that cut those corners) or quality of production and material. 



It sucks. It does. But it's not the designers being haters. The majority of designers are broke as a joke. You wouldn't BELIEVE the costs of designing and producing. It's ludicrous. They have so many things they would love to do but simply cannot. I've been on both sides and it ain't pretty from either unfortunately. I just wanted to share my experience and knowledge 


As far as dating? I agree with all the points made. Mostly about lack of confidence from both admirer and the big and beautiful. Our culture makes us feel ashamed. It really does. It's tough. I've dated non-FA people . Some who tried to change me and some who seemed to try and accept me but then I could sense awkwardness in situations where my size came up. Like when they'd introduce me to certain people or when certain situations came up like swimming, they seemed uncomfortable, even upset. One FA who left me for a bigger girl (Boy is that a weird experience to be told by the world you are too big but then told from someone you like that you just aren't big enough.) and I dated one bbw who all she could talk about was how disgusting she felt and looked even though I told her she wasn't. She would always ask what was wrong with me or what my ulterior motive was. It was a daily and weary thing. I guess everyone would say dating can suck but I can't help but feel FA and BBP have extra complications than the average bear.


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## Amaranthine (Jan 20, 2015)

magodamilion said:


> So how'd you manage to get an active dating life then? It sounds like you're essentially in the same boat as me. I'm asking in genuine curiosity because I'm not sure what to do really.



Like I said, I wouldn't have dated nearly as many people (most likely) if I hadn't also dated some average sized/non-BHM men. In a, "I realize this probably won't work but I like you so much as a person!" kind of way. Or, for the more casual dates, an "eh, why not?" kind of way. 

I can't say I've ever tried hitting on anyone in bars. You might want to try the internet; both more traditional dating sites like OkCupid, and then sites that would specifically attract BHM. It's a little easier to structure your approach through text. You could also try hitting up non-bar venues, depending on the personality type you tend to enjoy. I've often gone for nerdier guys and, well, not to make too much of an assumption, but I'd be surprised if you went to a local board-game shop DnD/tabletop game session and DIDN'T find a BHM.


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## Lamia (Jan 21, 2015)

lille said:


> Along with self esteem, you need to factor in the fact that fat women are told they cannot wear the same fashionable things as thinner women, and that their choices are much more limited because fewer stores sell fashionable clothing in plus sizes. And some of the places that sell plus sizes just sell larger versions of smaller clothes, instead of designing things meant to fit and flatter larger bodies. Even if they want to dress well, it's harder than it would be for a thinner woman.





Case in point. I ordered a 7X gown for my nieces wedding. We had already ordered one that wasn't the right fit and color and it was down to the wire, so I ended up with a gown that the arms were WAYYY to tight and short and was about 2 feet too long. I am 5'7 so I assume they thought someone 7x would be 7 foot tall? It's hard to find pretty clothes that fit right. I need to find a tailor. :smitten:


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## Azrael (Jan 21, 2015)

a thread about FA frustrations is....now a thread about clothing, how wonderful...

ANYWAYS, yea it's extremely frustrating.
I not only like larger woman, I'm also a feeder.
As a result of this, my dating pool is very limited as it happens to be a rather rare fetish which if I don't express in a relationship it is sure to end up eventually sabotaging the relationship or making me miserable.

It's a particularly difficult thing to deal with but for now I'm not in the financial place to even deal with THAT frustration so it's kinda on the back burner.


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## The Orange Mage (Jan 22, 2015)

Azrael said:


> I not only like larger woman, I'm also a feeder.ner.



Take it from my experience: it is infinitely better to be in a relationship with much smaller feedee than a relationship with a non-feedist fat woman.


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## Lamia (Jan 22, 2015)

Azrael said:


> a thread about FA frustrations is....now a thread about clothing, how wonderful...
> 
> ANYWAYS, yea it's extremely frustrating.
> I not only like larger woman, I'm also a feeder.
> ...



Well, one of the frustrations was why fat people dress so sloppily. It wasn't out of the blue. I am not sure why there is a need for being an ass about it, because it wasn't a topic you're interested in.


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## joswitch (Jan 22, 2015)

magodamilion said:


> So how'd you manage to get an active dating life then? It sounds like you're essentially in the same boat as me. I'm asking in genuine curiosity because I'm not sure what to do really.
> 
> Lately I've hit on so many BHM guys in bars and it never goes anywhere. They rarely even give me their numbers. Someone needs to develop some type of Pick Up Artist advice directed at women because no one ever seems to consider the problem of women who have no game at all. I'm nice and I give specific compliments not generic ones. I don't get what these guys issue is. I don't think it's insecurity like you all on here assume. There's a lot of diversity within the BHM population. They're not all skittish insecure people most of them are absurdly picky and I have no idea what they're looking for.



Advice, to women on how to pull men in bars, it's not so much about what you say, as what you do. Talk is cheap! Deeds, not just words! : 

To start off, "when first making contact": If the man in question has learned to "read" people, and he is on the look-out, if you catch his eye and you find each other desirable, then it's all about "the look*".

What is "the look*"? It's hard to describe in words, but when women look at you like this, locking eye contact for a few heartbeats - it's like a lightning strike. It's a blazing and inviting look, at once lustful and tender, completely unembarrassed.

So, you can learn how to give that look^^ 

And/or it sounds like you have already reached the point where you are conversing with the guys you are interested in?
While you are talking, make lots of eye contact, initiate (initially non-sexy bits, obviously) touching - e.g. put your hand on their forearm as you talk. In a crowded bar you have the advantage of "Oops, I appear to be all pressed up against you, oh gosh"  
Try to read their response, including body language etc.

(N.B.: If you're someone who has a tendency to ask new acquaintances lots of personal questions when you first meet - dial that way down! No-one like to feel "interrogated" and it's easy to make someone feel suspicious if you hit them with a barrage of questions.)

If you are out with all your girlfriends and you have been laughing it up together before you went to hit on the BHM you're interested in, he may suspect you are hitting on him as a joke / prank. To which end - look for tension especially in the shoulders (are his shoulders "shrugged up" tightly around his neck? Almost everyone does this when tense). You can be blatant and say "Oh, you look tense - can I give you a shoulder massage?" because, hey everyone loves a good shoulder / neck / back rub  That can actually apply as an ice-breaker, even if he is not particularly tense. Is good excuse for sensual, intimate (but not necessarily sexy, altho' it can be) touching.

And once you are in one-on-one conversation, look for "the moment" when it's time for a kiss - you'll be talking face-to-face, close to one another and making eye contact, both with open facial expression. At some point there will be a natural "beat" or pause in the conversation, best of all just after you have both laughed together - lock eye contact again, and if eye contact is returned, don't say anything else, but lean in for the kiss. If there is some making out, great! Do not leave without saying something like "I really like you, and I'd like to see you again - give me your number so we can get together soon ".

Hope that helps some.  Best of luck!

(*Fair comment this is entirely based on my own experience, in the past, before people spent all their time looking at their mobile phones when they were out in pubs :doh: Happy days. Including a few occasions when "the look" was so strong the whole conversation thing got skipped.  No convo before kissing is a good way to meet crazy peeps tho'  )


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## joswitch (Jan 22, 2015)

To address the OP:

Let me put it this way: my current love-life is like the graviton - entirely hypothetical   

Echoing what a few others have said, who I find desirable (FA) and what revs my engine (bit of a feeder  ) really narrow down my potential dating pool, given current widespread attitudes. Add to that my being a bit of a weirdo, who has no real interest or desire for most of the normal things most people want and consider to be the basic default life-script (car, mortgage, marriage etc.). And I'm real poor, atm. Also, have been a bit of a nocturnal hermit for the last year or two. And I'm kinda pre-occupied with working on my magnum opus....  

"We are detecting systemic incompatibility issues, captain!"  

So, I've just not really bothered dating lately. This doesn't really bother me, on account of having been in love with and loved back by some very lovely lasses in my past, so I don't have a sense of having missed out or anything. Maybe I'll get back into dating in the future, I don't know. It's all good, I got stuff to take care of.


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## Yakatori (Jan 22, 2015)

Lamia said:


> "_... It wasn't out of the blue...._"


It wasn't at all, not in the least. I mean, it spoke directly; and fairly-well, I think; to something people were already talking about.



joswitch said:


> "_...Talk is cheap! Deeds, not just words! :
> 
> To start off, "when first making contact": If the man in question has learned to "read" people, and he is on the look-out, if you catch his eye and you find each other desirable, then it's all about "the look*"....So, you can learn how to give that look.._"


View attachment Disgust.jpg​


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## Jon Blaze (Jan 23, 2015)

Every preference has its nuances. I don't think it makes my dating life frustrating per se, but it's a component of the many things that make romance the beautiful struggle that it is.


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## Lamia (Jan 23, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> It wasn't at all, not in the least. I mean, it spoke directly; and fairly-well, I think; to something people were already talking about.
> 
> 
> View attachment 118409​



Thanks. It's one my frustrations as a fat woman and as an FA. My boyfriend is 6'4 and 350 lbs and it's really hard for him to find shirts that don't leave his gut hanging out, because he's all torso. I think it's cute, but other people are going to judge you when you look sloppy.


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## Dromond (Jan 23, 2015)

I'm frankly sick of hearing the FA whine about how hard it is to get women. It isn't hard at all. BBW/SSBBW are fundamentally no different than their thinner sisters. You treat them with respect, you get respect in return. She's not a vehicle for fat, she's a woman with opinions, emotions, value, and you should treat her as the fellow human being she is. If you're having trouble getting up the courage to ask a woman out, stay away from women until you grow some balls.


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## joswitch (Jan 23, 2015)

Dromond said:


> I'm frankly sick of hearing the FA whine about how hard it is to get women. It isn't hard at all. BBW/SSBBW are fundamentally no different than their thinner sisters. You treat them with respect, you get respect in return. She's not a vehicle for fat, she's a woman with opinions, emotions, value, and you should treat her as the fellow human being she is. If you're having trouble getting up the courage to ask a woman out, stay away from women until you grow some balls.



Y U NO READ THREAD BEFORE POST? :doh:

Much irrelevant. Such non sequitur.


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## mediaboy (Jan 23, 2015)

What up girl, you wanna get ice cream done time?


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## olwen (Jan 24, 2015)

magodamilion said:


> So how'd you manage to get an active dating life then? It sounds like you're essentially in the same boat as me. I'm asking in genuine curiosity because I'm not sure what to do really.
> 
> Lately I've hit on so many BHM guys in bars and it never goes anywhere. They rarely even give me their numbers. Someone needs to develop some type of Pick Up Artist advice directed at women because no one ever seems to consider the problem of women who have no game at all. I'm nice and I give specific compliments not generic ones. I don't get what these guys issue is. I don't think it's insecurity like you all on here assume. There's a lot of diversity within the BHM population. They're not all skittish insecure people most of them are absurdly picky and I have no idea what they're looking for.



Fat guys are no more a monolith than women are. They aren't all looking for the same thing. You have to get to know each one you talk to individually to find that out. You just talk to them like you would talk to anyone and if you have a rapport, then ask if they want to go out some time. They will either say yes or now. Doesn't seem that hard to me.


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## joswitch (Jan 24, 2015)

olwen said:


> Fat guys are no more a monolith than women are. They aren't all looking for the same thing. You have to get to know each one you talk to individually to find that out. You just talk to them like you would talk to anyone and if you have a rapport, then ask if they want to go out some time. They will either say yes or now. Doesn't seem that hard to me.




The vibe I got from Mago's post is that she is waiting for the guy to offer his number? rather than doing the asking herself...


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## fuelingfire (Jan 31, 2015)

I always thought of it as a waste looking for BBWs in bars. There usually arent any there, or they are with a guy. And after my hopes at the bar are shot, usually some really thin girl will start flirting with me. 

I always feel like I see to many thin girls.  I do think if I preferred thin or thinner than bbw girls, I would have more options of who to date. But I dont think it will slow down my future dating.

Its funny that normally, it seemed like I was invisible to BBWs with one exception. If I was with a BBW, other BBWs seemed to actually stare at me. I always wondered if their FA-dar was kicking in.

I am going through a divorce right now, so I havent dated in a long time. When I do start dating again. I plan to go grocery shopping a lot, because I see a lot of BBWs at the store. Not everyone goes to the bar, but everyone needs to eat.


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## magodamilion (Feb 1, 2015)

joswitch said:


> The vibe I got from Mago's post is that she is waiting for the guy to offer his number? rather than doing the asking herself...



No you misinterpreted. I'm not waiting on guys to give me their numbers. I'm approaching guys and they're rejecting me consistently. Hence the problem.

A few stories to further illustrate the struggle:
There was the guy whose roommate I used to be friends with. I asked him if he wanted to hang out over the weekend more then once he kept saying no so I backed off.

There was a guy at a bar who I approached. He bought me a drink we talked for like five minutes then he walked a way as soon as his people wanted him to so I couldn't even ask for his number.

There was one at a bar who I talked to til the place closed, he gave me his number and his facebook. I thought it was super promising til the next day I see on his facebook that he's engaged. So he basically led me on for no reason.

There are two hot BHM's at my work one is gay the other is married. 

I'm taking a class right now where there's one I'm very attracted to but he's Christian and Republican which I just can't do.


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## bigmac (Feb 1, 2015)

fuelingfire said:


> I always thought of it as a waste looking for BBWs in bars. There usually arent any there, or they are with a guy. ...




Its been my experience that the number BBWs in bars and clubs varies quite a bit with geography. In New York City (Manhattan) I seldom encountered BBWs in bars. However in places out west where I've lived (Seattle, Portland, Edmonton) I often encountered BBWs at bars and clubs.


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## fuelingfire (Feb 2, 2015)

Ok I exaggerated. There are usually a few.  I do feel I see more BBWs when I go to Target, Walmart, or any grocery store. Though I should admit, because I was married, I rarely went out to the bars, but was still going to stores.
I do already have a married BBW friend who is volunteering her wing-man services for me. So I havent completely written off going to bars. Which is great because I really want to test my theory, that being seen with a BBW, reveals if another BBW is interested (by the BBW staring or checking me out). I have written about this in a few of the forums here. But no one said if they noticed this happening to them as well. I told my wing-man my theory and she said she thinks there is truth to it.


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## Marlayna (Feb 2, 2015)

fuelingfire said:


> Ok I exaggerated.There are usually a few. I do feel I see more BBWs when I go to Target, Walmart, or any grocery store.Though I should admit, because I was married, I rarely went out to the bars, but was still going to stores.
> I do already have a married BBW friend who is volunteering her wing-man services for me. So I havent completely written off going to bars.Which is great because I really want to test my theory, that being seen with a BBW, reveals if another BBW is interested (by the BBW staring or checking me out).I have written about this in a few of the forums here.But no one said if they noticed this happening to them as well.I told my wing-man my theory and she said she thinks there is truth to it.


I definitely agree with your theory. Hanging around with a BBW friend, will attract other BBWs... at least that's how I felt when I was single.


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## Yakatori (Feb 3, 2015)

fuelingfire said:


> "I always thought of it as a waste looking for BBWs in bars....I am *going through a divorce right now*, so I havent dated in a long time."


Sorry to hear that, I can imagine it must be really difficult. Otherwise, I think it's a little different for women seeking women, in general. Than men seeking women or vice-vera.



fuelingfire said:


> "..I do feel I see more BBWs when I go to *Target*, Walmart, or any grocery store."


Yeah, that's definitely true; there are always a lot of pretty girls at Target. There's actually a thread-topic on this. Challenging, certainly, but..


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## Tad (Feb 3, 2015)

Marlayna said:


> I definitely agree with your theory. Hanging around with a BBW friend, will attract other BBWs... at least that's how I felt when I was single.



More generally, I observed and several friends said they found the same, having a girlfriend seems to make you more interesting to single women :doh: Or possibly just safer, so they would be more willing to talk to you, mildly fiirt, etc? I could see part of what you are observing being a similar effect, although partly it could be the 'oh, he may be attracted to people like me?' thing too.


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## GypsySummers (Feb 3, 2015)

Tad said:


> ...although partly it could be the 'oh, he may be attracted to people like me?' thing too.



That's definitely how I sadly feel when seeing a person with another bbw. I tell myself "look! You could have a chance! It's already proven that they at least don't MIND big girls if not actually prefer them!!" 


When i see guys or small girls I find attractive, the same thoughts always go through my head: "Theyre attractive! Do I think I have a chance? I wonder if they've ever been with a big girl. I wonder if they are repulsed by big girls. Probably. What if they LIKE big girls! Doubt it. They could be curious I guess. What if they don't mind? Yeah but how would that first make out/touching party go when they finally actually see or feel me. Or the first time I get naked. Did we already forget the, "um, I actually got to go. I work early tomorrow". God how mortifying was that! Never again. Why am I even worrying? I'm hot! If they don't like me, screw them! Their loss! Assholes." 


And then I don't end up trying. It sounds terrible and sad when written out but that honestly goes through my head EVERY time I am contemplating approaching someone or flirting or when someone attractive talks to me. Even if they seem interested, I start feeling like I am somehow tricking them about my size. Like maybe my outfit or the lighting is deceiving and they think I'm smaller than I am. It's unfortunate. But I have had some mortifying experiences that make me cautious and leery now. If they are already with a bbw, all those thoughts don't enter my head at all because I see that they obviously don't mind. 


I'm a really confidant person until I actually like someone. Then I'm ridiculously mean and over judgmental of myself because I'd rather judge myself than someone else judge me.


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## bigmac (Feb 3, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> ...
> 
> Yeah, that's definitely true; there are always a *lot of pretty girls at Target*. There's actually a thread-topic on this. Challenging, certainly, but..



One of my daughters works a Target (I think she's quite pretty). She's also a taekwondo black belt so don't mess with her.


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## Yakatori (Feb 3, 2015)

magodamilion said:


> "_Someone needs to develop some type of Pick Up Artist advice directed at women because no one ever seems to consider the problem of women who have no game at all.... *I have no idea what they're looking for*..._"


I don't think anyone actually, credibly, hits on someone else without some basis of attraction. Even if for some type of opportunity or material benefit that doesn't really have so much to do with just that person themselves.

But so what? If someone is (just-initially) attracted to you? Or, conversely, that it does not (so readily) appear to be the case? Or you to them? That's not what really matters or should, to you. 

I say, instead of getting hung-up on the issue of whether or not someone is responding to you, or how, or what it means; it's better to more immediately concentrate on who they are. Getting to know them, their attitude, their point of view. Where they are coming from and where they're headed. What their own personal story means to you, aside from anything beyond the most immediate connection. I mean, *why* are you attracted to them? If you even are...

Once you get a better handle on these types of things, and just with respect to that specific person; then, maybe, you're a little bit inside their head. Then you can more meaningfully interpret the nuance in whatever it is they're putting across. (If there's even any substance to it at all; or, perhaps, maybe more than you can realize just straight-away.)

Of course, I don't really mean anything about withholding your own feelings: Like, I don't mean, per se, that you shouldn't tell someone (or otherwise telegraph) how much you really like them. Or, conversely, how you find them, sort of, shy or aloof. By all means, relate those types of things whenever or however you feel most comfortable with it. However, I do mean more about just about yourself, holding yourself back from projecting too far into any kind of situation, in what expectations you set up for it.

Likewise, I dont really mean anything about patience, about giving people more of your own time or attention than they actually deserve. If youre not getting something out of an exchange in proportion to what you feel you put into it, I think that should speak for itself. Just be sure its not yourself, your own instincts, youre losing patience with. 

As then, in that case, maybe it's time to re-calibrate a few things, outside of the situation-itself.


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## Yakatori (Feb 3, 2015)

bigmac said:


> "_One of my daughters works a Target (I think she's quite pretty). She's also a taekwondo black belt so don't mess with her._"


I wasn't even the one who started that thread... But, yeah, there is something to it, some sort of metric involved...

Natural Food stores/Co-Ops as well. But, like I said, you have to be the type of guy/girl who's either good at approaching or approachable-yourself.



Here, I will do *mago* a solid or two:



magodamilion said:


> "_...BHM's at my work one is gay the other is married...I'm taking a class right now where there's one I'm very attracted to but he's Christian and Republican which I just can't do._"


Can't really dwell on that too much... 



magodamilion said:


> "_There was the guy whose roommate I used to be friends with. I asked him if he wanted to hang out over the weekend more then once he kept saying no so I backed off._"


Either _not-attracted_ or _not-enough attracted_ for it to sustain whatever type of relationship he assumed you wanted. Which, honestly, is really on him for just making assumptions. Unless, maybe, you did or said something which might've supported such an impression.



magodamilion said:


> "_There was one at a bar who I talked to *til the place closed, he gave me his number* and his facebook. I thought it was super promising til the next day I see on his facebook that he's engaged. So he basically led me on for no reason._"


Heh...Well, not really for "no reason" at all. Definitely-interested. In something. Just not _the same thing_.



magodamilion said:


> "_There was a guy at a bar who I approached. He bought me a drink we talked for like five minutes then he walked a way as soon as his people wanted him to so I couldn't even ask for his number._"


Possibly-attracted, but maybe you said something which telegraphed either physical or relational incompatibility. Maybe just being kind or polite. Or maybe just a bit demure. This is your target-area, for more & better practice.


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## Durin (Feb 5, 2015)

For the single FFA's you should really consider dating a gamer. I know so many big guys that are single by choice or fate. It's like Nerdvanna for an FFA


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## Yakatori (Feb 5, 2015)

A guy who's single _*by-choice*_ is a challenge for someone who wants to be in a relationship, because he doesn't really want to be in a relationship.

Conversely, saying a guy's single *by-fate* would suggest that there's something seriously wrong with him; which, therefore, would make any kind of relationship (with him) less desirable.

Ideally, I think, these FFAs are looking for someone who _just-happens-to-be_ single. For the moment. You know, like a well-priced piece of real estate that only comes on the market every once in a while, and only for a very short time.


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## magodamilion (Feb 5, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> Heh...Well, not really for "no reason" at all. Definitely-interested. In something. Just not _the same thing_.
> 
> Possibly-attracted, but maybe you said something which telegraphed either physical or relational incompatibility. Maybe just being kind or polite. Or maybe just a bit demure. This is your target-area, for more & better practice.



Ha yeah you're right. I don't know if he was trying to cheat on his fiance though just because he gave me his facebook page which clearly said it. Eh who knows how people work.

You're other advice sounded good too in the previous comment, I don't know how to do the multiple quote thing so I can answer bits of it. 

And as for what Durin said, yeah I'd date a gamer. I just don't know any. I'm not really into that sort of thing so I don't meet anyone who is generally. 

Though that makes me wonder if I should develop some nerdier interests to meet guys instead of just going to bars to meet guys. I'm kind of a nerd but not in social ways that involve interacting with people. Either I spend my time doing stuff I enjoy alone or doing stuff with the specific intent of meeting new people/what my friends enjoy (i.e. going out to parties/bars/clubs).


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## Yakatori (Feb 6, 2015)

The whole advantage of going to a bar or other traditional singles setting is built around 1) the sheer numbers of roughly compatible people involved (age, class, interest) and 2) that most people are drinking, at least a little, and are therefore a little less inhibited. So, in aggregate, this factors substantially as a social elixir.

But for people otherwise at the margins (different/distinct look, personality,interests, p.o.v. etc...) this is typically offset by (at least the appearance of) increased-competition. From everything else in the entire environment, that's also placing some demands on their interest's attention. Including their own friends, other people they're out with, that they also have to give some polite consideration to. 

(This is unless, of course, going up to an entire group of people and engratiating yourself with literally everyone at once happens to be your forte- in which case it's more probable that you are already, in fact, an actual player. And, in that case, everything else functions as prop or tool in your own performance.)

So, that's why some portion of higher-functioning nerds will actually tend to do bit better just within their own personal, respectful domains of nerd-dom. Like, for one who plays the dulcimer or accordian, maybe there's a good number of people who're like "_w-w-wHut's the matter with that guy?_" Or " _what's such a big deal about *him*?!_" But then, back in the small pond of that particular guy's your own local bluegrass community, it's like he's some sort of rock star or something.

So,maybe, for some of you, it's that you happen to be approaching these guys within their own personal element of rock-stardom. Where're they're necessarily distracted by all that comes with that; and so, therefore, it just requires that much more to maintain their undivided attention. Or, conversely, you just need to find a rock-stardom of your own. From within which you can wield a more direct influence over whatever the social dynamics might be.


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## Durin (Feb 6, 2015)

If you want to dip your toe in Nerdvanna I would suggest going to a convention in your area. Lots of fun people watching and lots of fun things going on.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Feb 7, 2015)

Durin said:


> If you want to dip your toe in Nerdvanna I would suggest going to a convention in your area. Lots of fun people watching and lots of fun things going on.



Or a Renaissance Fair. In my experience, they consist almost entirely of BBW's, BHM's, FA's, FFA's, and people who just love smoked turkey legs.


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## bigmac (Feb 7, 2015)

Yakatori said:


> The whole advantage of going to a bar or other traditional singles setting is built around 1) the sheer numbers of roughly compatible people involved (age, class, interest) and 2) that most people are drinking, at least a little, and are therefore a little less inhibited. So, in aggregate, this factors substantially as a social elixir.
> 
> ...



And lets not forget the most important point. People go to bars and clubs to socialize. At these establishments women are going to be much more receptive. On the street women generally don't like sexual attention -- at a club they'll be upset if they're not being noticed.


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## fuelingfire (May 4, 2015)

I went out 3 times with my BBW wing woman. I believe my theory is correct, and I was noticed by more BBWs when accompanied by a BBW. Though of the girls I talked to we had personalities that clashed with mine.  I only went out 3 times though because I was impatient and joined match.com. and within a week found a (ss)BBW within an hours drive that I really hit it off with. I personally would encourage anyone who is having a problem meeting people to join a dating site. There is a filter, at least on match, for body type preference.  Plus people can see your preferred body type preference, so people would know right away that you prefer “big and beautiful” or “a few extra pounds”. Just don’t be creepy. This wasn’t meant as a plug for that site, just letting people know, cause I had no idea.


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## Tad (May 13, 2015)

Natsuki: I think that sites like this have seldom been very good at pulling in non-FA BHM. There are some, but I think at first blush the sites seem to be about male FA and BBW, and a lot of fat guys that might be looking for a place keep on looking (pure speculation on my part....maybe fat guys who like thin women are just less apt to go looking for web sites catering that feeling?) Whatever the reasons, I'm strongly suspect that many, probably most, bigger guys share the general preference for thinner women.... how you connect with them, however, I can't say.


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## Yakatori (May 13, 2015)

Tad said:


> "_...sites like this have seldom been very good at pulling in non-FA BHM. There are some, but I think at first blush the sites seem to be about male FA and BBW, and...suspect that many, probably most, bigger guys share the general preference for thinner women...._"


I will go out on a limb here: People, in general, don't really have a type. There are certain traits or criteria they look for. But, as with purchasing decisions, a lot of what gravitates the seeking of personal relationships in one particular direction or another also has a lot to do with a (then) more noticeably-absent, deeper, & perhaps even unconscious, repulsion of things we know we don't like or want to avoid?

So, each connection between any given two people is sort of unique in terms of being specific to where those particular people are in themselves and life in general at that particular point in time.

Although, I would be curious to see the results of a poll here, but not using the labels per se; just asking "_How many of you would consider, all things being equal....dating, connecting with this type of person.._" So, that said, I would predict that most of the Fat guys here would at least consider dating a more thin or averaged sized woman, assuming other criteria lined up (personality, interests, etc...) even if they wouldn't necessarily be as inclined to approach such a lady.

*EDIT*: Here is a poll, for what it's worth.


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## Wolfie (Jun 24, 2015)

FFA frustration: I go to a small private college which is unbelievably dominated by tan fraternity athletes. I think I've seen two or three larger men on campus, and even they looked like stereotypical Greek life jocks. The only men I've found attractive in body and personality are taken. The joys of being a sapiosexual adipophile nerd. The worst part is that a surprising number of men (and women) I've met lately have told me I'm pretty or made advances, none of them my type. It's like pouring salt on a wound. Anyway, I'm such a shy voyeur I probably wouldn't be able to approach a man I found attractive, but would just stare from the shadows like the creepy person I am. What I wouldn't give for a sexy, smart BHM...

On the funny side, another FFA frustration is that whenever people around me talk about gaining weight or binge eating I just kind of zone out and have to pretend I can still hear what they're saying. Or when an SSBHM especially is in the vicinity I have a really hard time paying attention to anything else.


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## fuelingfire (Jun 25, 2015)

Wolfie said:


> FFA frustration: I go to a small private college which is unbelievably dominated by tan fraternity athletes. I think I've seen two or three larger men on campus, and even they looked like stereotypical Greek life jocks. The only men I've found attractive in body and personality are taken. The joys of being a sapiosexual adipophile nerd. The worst part is that a surprising number of men (and women) I've met lately have told me I'm pretty or made advances, none of them my type. It's like pouring salt on a wound. Anyway, I'm such a shy voyeur I probably wouldn't be able to approach a man I found attractive, but would just stare from the shadows like the creepy person I am. What I wouldn't give for a sexy, smart BHM...
> 
> On the funny side, another FFA frustration is that whenever people around me talk about gaining weight or binge eating I just kind of zone out and have to pretend I can still hear what they're saying. Or when an SSBHM especially is in the vicinity I have a really hard time paying attention to anything else.


As most people in college are 20ish, you are more likely to see thin people there. When people are closer to 30ish they usually are a bit heavier. You will see in most campuses that most of the people attending are thinner. I remember the frustration as well.


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## Tad (Jun 25, 2015)

I used to go out 'into town' and away from the university zone, just to see more fat people. Between the age, some of the socio-economic factors that impact both fatness and going to a college like that, and probably some self-selection.... I'm not suprirsed to hear that it is a rough spot for FAs. 

ETA: I should add, I did end up meeting my wife at the University. She was pretty thin at the time but somehow hit a bunch of my hot buttons anyway, and I decided that some casual dating couldn't hurt, if only to build up my dating skills. Then we just really hit it off, I realized that I didn't do 'casual' well and worried about how this could interact with my FA0ness...... then I discovered that she was walking about 1.5 hours a day plus had a part time job that was quite active but was only eating about one to one and a bit meals a day, that she loved food and had a huge appetite when she did eat, and after a bit more time I met her rather fat parents, and I decided that the FA side of me would probably be fine if I was just patient--and that part all worked out.

So I guess I'm saying even when things look pretty 'thin,' there can be hidden possibilities


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## BBPrince (Jun 25, 2015)

Yes it does! The greatest challenge to me is to be a BHM and a FA who likes SSBBWs.


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## Tad (Jul 2, 2015)

For various reasons, some no-doubt related, my wife’s weight is up to an all-time high, and her libido is down to an all-time low. Combine that with Summer clothes that show the latter development in a lovely fashion, and :doh: :doh: :doh:

(eta: there are all sorts of more practical concerns in here, but I was just venting about the frustrated libido part of things--it is not my biggest concern in life at the moment, but it is nice to have a place where people could understand that aspect of it)


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## Deannie (Jan 10, 2016)

A young man had a crush on me. 

Not sure why, because I am 40 to his 20. Maybe a first time FA thing? 

He says to me "You are pretty fat."

Then blushes and stutters "I mean, you are pretty and fat."

He then begins to apologise awkwardly.

I just smiled and said, "I know I am fat. That's okay, but in the future if you like a girl just tell her she is pretty."

He was so young, I was just trying to coach him. I hope I didn't do the wrong thing.


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## loopytheone (Jan 10, 2016)

Deannie said:


> A young man had a crush on me.
> 
> Not sure why, because I am 40 to his 20. Maybe a first time FA thing?
> 
> ...



Sounds like you were very sweet to him! Bless him, I know I have had some really young guys hit on me and it is kinda amusing.


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## landshark (Jan 10, 2016)

Deannie said:


> A young man had a crush on me.
> 
> Not sure why, because I am 40 to his 20. Maybe a first time FA thing?
> 
> ...



I had a few moments like that when I first started dating BBWs. I was 24 or so. I had one woman ask me why I wanted "a girl like her" which, in the context of her question, meant "why do you want to date a fat girl?" Before thinking of how to word it, I blurted out, "I like fat girls." Oh, gosh, I was dumb. I learned how to answer that question (which I encountered in some form or another many times) in such a way that I was true to my preferences but conveyed that I valued each individual for her own merit, and not just because she was fat. I could have used a coach, but I eventually got it right!


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## lostinadaydream (Jan 11, 2016)

I've a lot of frustration when I just want to tell a big girl that I like her and why. It's just impossible! Even girls I know for a long time, over a decade now, who are used to my preference of bigger girls and who know that I like them chubby, are kind of upset when I try to tell them that I love their chub. No matter how often I said positive things about their character and noted why we are good friends, it is definitively impossible to state that they have a sexy shape or that I love their rolls and chub.


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## TwoSwords (Jan 28, 2017)

huge said:


> Do you guys feel like you have a less active dating life because of your preferences?
> 
> That's to say, do you find it harder to meet women and take them out? / *Feel like you see more thin girls than fat girls?*
> 
> Also, swinger, single, married, or in a relationship?



I definitely don't see that many fat girls in my real life, to the point where individual "sightings" become major memories in my mind, but I don't think it's really effected my social life much.

The overall negative attitude that most girls have about fatness has hurt it a lot more.


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## TwoSwords (Jan 28, 2017)

Yakatori said:


> It really has more to do with how they don't really have so much invested in talking or negotiating with any one person. They literally approach hundreds if not thousands of people in the course of a week's time.
> 
> Intuitively, they seem to know precisely just how much to put into a relationship as to barely maintain it. But, again, it's more about volume; against the odds of such a wide pool, they're practically guaranteed to "get lucky" with a (relatively) much more consistent frequency.



Gosh, what a depressing thought, that just having those kinds of strong, sincere feelings for a single person hurts their chances of finding happiness so badly. I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but if any part of this is true, I feel nothing but pity for Prince Charming from "Snow White," who was clearly only interested in one girl.

In fact, if this *is* true, I think escapism should be immediately de-stigmatized. If such powerful emotions are going to be dragged through the dirt as a matter of course, no one can be reasonably blamed for wanting to escape from reality for a while.


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## quantumbits (Dec 17, 2017)

loopytheone said:


> The talk about clothes and stuff is very interesting to me. Especially as I am a BBW and have noticed that people can treat me very differently depending on the way I am dressed.
> 
> Most of the time I dress I dress in trainers, sweat pants, a men's t-shirt, no bra, no makeup, and just brushed but not styled hair. This is normal for me because this is how I feel comfortable. But often, when dressed like this, I get disregarded and ignored.
> 
> ...


Regardless how uncomfortable it's for you to dress nicely and use makeup and all that, people generally respond more positively to others if it looks like they put effort into their appearance. I know it's harder for you to dress nicely because of your weight and available clothing choices.


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## quantumbits (Dec 17, 2017)

TwoSwords said:


> Gosh, what a depressing thought, that just having those kinds of strong, sincere feelings for a single person hurts their chances of finding happiness so badly. I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but if any part of this is true, I feel nothing but pity for Prince Charming from "Snow White," who was clearly only interested in one girl.
> 
> In fact, if this *is* true, I think escapism should be immediately de-stigmatized. If such powerful emotions are going to be dragged through the dirt as a matter of course, no one can be reasonably blamed for wanting to escape from reality for a while.


That reminds me more of a introverted person. And their trouble isn't being focused on a single person but not possessing the skills to interact socially under all conditions..

Who ever focuses on a single person? To develop social skills, we have to talk to a variety of people. Having a single love interest doesn't prevent someone from communicate with many others.


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## TwoSwords (Dec 19, 2017)

quantumbits said:


> That reminds me more of a introverted person. And their trouble isn't being focused on a single person but not possessing the skills to interact socially under all conditions..
> 
> Who ever focuses on a single person? To develop social skills, we have to talk to a variety of people. Having a single love interest doesn't prevent someone from communicate with many others.



Well, sure, when it comes to just normal friendships, but I didn't think that's what we were talking about.

There are also other problems. When a person's interests and passions are uncommon, finding many different people to share them with becomes very unlikely. For instance, I've shared with literally hundreds of people, most of whom have fled like frightened rabbits within the first half-hour of time we spent together.


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## BHMluver (Jan 10, 2018)

Over time I have become ever increasingly disenchanted w/ my spouse. Sometimes I wonder if I would not cut him loose save for the fact that he is a SSBHM. I have to ask myself, Would I put up w/ all this crap if he were an average sized man? (I know, ironic, huh?) A bit of size bias I guess ... ironically, cutting him break after break.

At what point does one say, I dont care if you are a big man. I just cant do you anymore? Feeling sooo sad ... maybe FFA break ups are harder than an average break-up?At the end of the day, maybe there are more fitting fish in the pond ... albeit, and hopefully, large ones?


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## TwoSwords (Jan 10, 2018)

BHMluver said:


> Over time I have become ever increasingly disenchanted w/ my spouse. Sometimes I wonder if I would not cut him loose save for the fact that he is a SSBHM. I have to ask myself, Would I put up w/ all this crap if he were an average sized man? (I know, ironic, huh?) A bit of size bias I guess ... ironically, cutting him break after break.
> 
> At what point does one say, I dont care if you are a big man. I just cant do you anymore? Feeling sooo sad ... maybe FFA break ups are harder than an average break-up?At the end of the day, maybe there are more fitting fish in the pond ... albeit, and hopefully, large ones?



Having a size preference is perfectly normal. I think if there's any real danger to the relationship, it would probably be best to discuss this with him seriously, and let him know how bothered you are by... whatever's bothering you. The honeymoon will end, no matter who you end up with. The important thing is how you cope with that, and what kind of a person you want to be as a result.


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## extra_m13 (Mar 5, 2018)

you just hit the target. dating life will for sure be affected if you limited yourself to a specific kind of woman, so yeah if you are looking to date only bbw it will be difficult for many reasons. but of course, what is the point of dating skinny bitches who go to the gym 5 times a week?, thing is bbw are difficult to find for me at least, and as for all the population, they are not all beautiful or easy going and even a smaller number are happy with their curves so all they talk about is wanting to lose weight. finding a beautiful big woman, happy with her curves and happily eating without worrying about gaining weight is a true gem.


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## In to it (Mar 5, 2018)

Sometimes I think maybe it's best to take a step back and breathe. If your preference is a bigger woman or man then the meeting might not happen because your mind is too targeted to find that perfect someone and they might pick up on this. I remember this one time when my partner and I went to go looking for clothes for her this one time. As we were moving about the aisles there were these two friends both on the heavy side. Well down by the change rooms while I was waiting for my partner to come out and show me how something looked on her one of these women came out and said to her friend what do you think about this. Her friend said it's a little too big don't you think and she replied back yeah I know but I love it so I'll grow into it. This is what I mean by taking a step back this was by chance what I overheard what you are looking for.


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## TwoSwords (Mar 6, 2018)

In to it said:


> Sometimes I think maybe it's best to take a step back and breathe. If your preference is a bigger woman or man then *the meeting might not happen because your mind is too targeted to find that perfect someone and they might pick up on this.* I remember this one time when my partner and I went to go looking for clothes for her this one time. As we were moving about the aisles there were these two friends both on the heavy side. Well down by the change rooms while I was waiting for my partner to come out and show me how something looked on her one of these women came out and said to her friend what do you think about this. Her friend said it's a little too big don't you think and she replied back yeah I know but I love it so I'll grow into it. This is what I mean by taking a step back this was by chance what I overheard what you are looking for.



I'm curious. What did you mean by this part? If I ever sensed that someone thought I was the perfect partner, I would definitely not avoid them because of it, even if it wasn't a good fit on my end.


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## In to it (Mar 6, 2018)

Maybe if your wanting to meet someone so much maybe your giving off an air of desperation which they pick up on that even so they might be interested at first sight in you they then see a red flag.


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## Stephanie343 (Mar 6, 2018)

When you write a novel and the page times out and you lose it all. Fml.

Agreed nothing stinks like desperation. 
Making friends is hard enough without throwing into the equation that you expect them to be an insta-partner.
Like someone else said shopping is the perfect place to meet people. &#8216;Everyone needs to eat’. I could care less if I’m in a nightclub or the loo roll aisle of Tesco. If someone approaches me in a Friendly manner and strikes up conversation I’ll give them the time of day. Yes there are people out there who will take some affront to it, but you don’t know their life they may be in a rush or having a bad day. Don’t take it as straight up rejection. 

On the relationship front, I hate to think that my relationships are possibly viewed for something other than what they are. 
I am not nor will I ever accept being a fetish and only being dated because of my size. Wanna try bdsm or role play. Fair enough. But someone solely getting their kicks because of my weight is something I can’t grasp. I am so much more than that and knowing that if I ever wanted to change that that it would be a relationship issue smarts something rotten. 
I have read many threads on here and get the same feeling when I see that there are plenty who simply see fat people as the numbers on a scale. But who am I to judge. I just think it’s unfair to call unfairness when your preferences don’t seem to want to be fetishised. 

The clothing aspect, I feel as a large lady I need to make sure I’m well presented. It hurts my heart when I see a lovely outfit, but they only do it in size wouldntfitmyankleletalonemywaist. Making sure I’m well dressed means Atleast I can think if people are staring it’s because they’re purely dicks and not because I’m unkempt. I am guilty of judging plus sized women much smaller than me for what they wear. I think if I can at my size dress acceptable how can’t you ,must add though it’s not a long held judgement, I’m not that much of a twat. 
The way I dress myself and making sure my face is done is a safety blanket for me. I would love the confidence to walk out in my comfy joggers and hoody.

ETA: Sorry, reread went off on a ramble. I suppose in short what I aim to say is just because someone is large doesn’t mean they are wanting to be seen the way some FA’s see them.


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## TwoSwords (Mar 6, 2018)

In to it said:


> Maybe if your wanting to meet someone so much maybe your giving off an air of desperation which they pick up on that even so they might be interested at first sight in you they then see a red flag.



I'm afraid I still don't understand. What is an "air" of desperation, and how can it be identified? I've never noticed this in others.


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## TwoSwords (Mar 6, 2018)

Stephanie343 said:


> Yes there are people out there who will take some affront to it, but you dont know their life they may be in a rush or having a bad day. Dont take it as straight up rejection.



I'm not offended. At least, no more than usual. I'm also no more hurt than usual when people do this. The problem isn't my feelings, but rather, that their doing this impedes the process, and my knowing that they may have some reason or whatever does nothing to fix that.



Stephanie343 said:


> On the relationship front, I hate to think that my relationships are possibly viewed for something other than what they are.



If someone thought a relationship with me was, let's say, a rock, I wouldn't get it, but I don't think I'd be offended.



Stephanie343 said:


> I am not nor will I ever accept being a fetish and only being dated because of my size.



A "fetish" is always sexual in nature, and needing size/softness/what have you in a relationship is not necessarily.



Stephanie343 said:


> But someone solely getting their kicks because of my weight is something I cant grasp. I am so much more than that and knowing that if I ever wanted to change that that it would be a relationship issue smarts something rotten.



Being more than that is wonderful. However, it's one thing to be *more than just* a fat person, and it's another thing for fatness to be *irrelevant* or *unimportant.* I gleefully recognize that every fat woman has hopes, dreams, wishes, hobbies, work, family, problems, solutions, and for the most part, some philosophical position through which they approach the world (whether intentionally or otherwise.) That's fine, but thin people have those things too, so that's not enough by itself.



Stephanie343 said:


> I have read many threads on here and get the same feeling when I see that there are plenty who simply see fat people as the numbers on a scale. But who am I to judge. I just think its unfair to call unfairness when your preferences dont seem to want to be fetishised.



The unfair part is the mis-applying of the words "fetish" and "fetishized" to things they don't apply to. I hear these words thrown around at everything from seductive artwork, to basic attraction, and all the way to simple preference for something the majority doesn't like. The vast majority of these things are not fetishes. Attraction is a normal part of relationships, as are preferences and needs, and from what I can tell, the main reason why some people call them fetishes is that they're still not comfortable with being preferred physically, and want to make it sound as bad as they feel it is. Frankly, I think it's more fat-hate fallout.



Stephanie343 said:


> ETA: Sorry, reread went off on a ramble. I suppose in short what I aim to say is just because someone is large doesnt mean they are wanting to be seen the way some FAs see them.



I want large people to see themselves as healthy, human creatures, who are neither so repulsive that they need to get defensive, nor so immaculate that they have some right to "spend" the positive feelings of others around them as though it were currency. In short, as normal human beings.


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## Stephanie343 (Mar 6, 2018)

ETD: I wrote another whole post pinpointing what was said in the above message. I decided I don’t need to explain myself further. My original post is how I feel about the matter. Take what you want from it.

Great points you stated there TwoSwords. I think we’re on the same page. Maybe just of different books.


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## TwoSwords (Mar 6, 2018)

Stephanie343 said:


> Maybe my brain is slightly over tired but I can’t grasp most of what you said at the beginning and how it relates to my original post.



Well, I'll do my best to clarify any points of confusion as I multi-quote, the way you say you should.



Stephanie343 said:


> It’s not another day on the internet unless someone’s getting offended.



So... Does that make this not another day on the internet? My point was that offense isn't, to me, what matters, but rather the fact that certain behaviors get in the way of people meeting each other and making friends.



Stephanie343 said:


> Not sure I understand the rock analogy?



This was in reply to your statement...



Stephanie343 said:


> On the relationship front, I hate to think that my relationships are possibly viewed for something other than what they are.



I took this statement at face value, to mean that you hate it when people mistake a relationship for something which is not a relationship. A rock is just one example of this broad category of things-that-are-not-relationships.



Stephanie343 said:


> You’re very right there. Those things are important in a relationship. I suppose I intended fetish in this sense to mean an obsessive interest rather than a sexual one.



I know. The problem is, that's not what the word "fetish" means. The word "fetish" has only two definitions. One is a *sexual* obsession with something that is not specifically sex, and the other applies only to inanimate objects. To use it as an umbrella term for all pivotal interests is to misuse it. I could use it with precisely the same amount of validity to refer to the obsessive interest of a woman in the ability of a man to overlook the physical (and to thus not be a man.)



Stephanie343 said:


> Right again. Everyone of every size has the same issues. In the same way I wouldn’t walk up to a guy and say you have red hair, I adore redheads, now never dye it or cut it, cause I likes my redheads with long curly locks, oh yeah now you have to tong it every morning or better yet get a perm. I wouldn’t expect someone to adore me simply for one thing. Like I obviously have assumed of posters in some threads do. You know what they say of assumptions though! I suppose that’s what I meant by it. No Rainbow Unicorn complex here.



See, again, I think there's some confusion here, or at least some *potential* for confusion. Just because a person may consider a quality (say, red hair,) important or even necessary in order to feel a certain way about you, does not mean that it's the only thing about you they like. It's much too common to equate these two things; the position that Quality X is *necessary,* and the position that Quality X is the *only* important thing. These are not the same.

In my case, for example, the idea of embracing a person who is not very soft, quite frankly, revolts me. I do it on a regular basis with my family and friends because I'm kind of soft myself, and I want them to have the chance to feel what I can't, but it's always a sacrifice. It is very important; even necessary, if I'm going to get anything out of any physical element of a relationship.

However, this is not the only thing in relationships that I need, or even the most important thing. The most important thing is honesty, and after that, the ability to share some-to-all of my feelings about fatness, because how else can it be a relationship, if we have nothing in common?

This is why I draw a line of distinction between...

What is needed to make a relationship work and...
------------------------------------------------------------
What a relationship is *all* about.



Stephanie343 said:


> No fat-hate whatsoever.



When I refer to "fat-hate fallout," this refers to any tendency that people develop as a result of the fact that fat-hate exists. For instance, if an FA becomes very reclusive and uncomfortable around other people as a result of bad experiences with fat-haters, his reclusive-ness and discomfort would be fat-hate fallout, even though it is not in any way fat-hating itself.



Stephanie343 said:


> Yet again right on what is needed with a relationship. Attraction is very important.



Precisely.



Stephanie343 said:


> So all in all we agree then.
> I have no idea how you came up with the thought that I thought larger people are not normal humans though?



It sounds like we agree on a lot of the important things. And I wasn't trying to argue with you when I said that last bit. I was just stating my own position.


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## Stephanie343 (Mar 7, 2018)

Thanks for the clarification.


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## TwoSwords (Mar 7, 2018)

Stephanie343 said:


> Thanks for the clarification.



You're welcome!


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## LarryTheNoodleGuy (Mar 7, 2018)

Thread is quite old, but interesting.

I date via energy, nothing else. Nothing else will work. I can't even get "a rise" in bed unless I connect with the person heart-to-heart. I have been in bed with women who were absolutely enormous, and nothing happened because I felt they were rough or insensitive or dull or such, and I have been stupidly turned on by women who are borderline skeletal, just because of the way they were with me energetically. 

So, no, my preference doesn't limit my dating...if I like somebody, I like them, and there goes my heart, and off to the races, at my peril. I would prefer a partner with blobs and blobs of beautiful, soft, flabby, hanging pounds to adore, but absent that, there is so much more to share with another human being than the physical, I almost feel sometimes as if being physical is just one part of intimacy, and not the ultimate.


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## In to it (Mar 7, 2018)

I think when you separate dreams (fantasy, wants) from your heart which I think are one and the same, your heart pays the tab and then your confidence is in disarray.


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## TwoSwords (Mar 7, 2018)

LarryTheNoodleGuy said:


> ...and I have been stupidly turned on by women who are borderline skeletal, just because of the way they were with me energetically.
> 
> So, no, my preference doesn't limit my dating...if I like somebody, I like them, and there goes my heart, and off to the races, at my peril.



I've heard a lot of people claim this, and all I can say is that in a sense, you're fortunate. I think women would have an easier time understanding your feelings, which are flexible and less-than-fully-predictable, than they would mine, which change about as often as a mountain and are almost as easy to get over.


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## Colonial Warrior (Jun 8, 2018)

Dating for a FA besides most of the people think, is more difficult. It's more harder when you are SSBHM who wants a SSBBW. Your singlehood turns to be a so very heavy cross specially when you aren't looking for the big easy.

I feel myself interested in SSBBWs for real. I didn't want to have a relationship with someone because I feel myself a looser.

To the contrary, I will feel myself like a king who found a princess. Like the Greek myth of the king Pygmalion who fell in love with the statue he created, Galatea. And with the blessing of goddess Aphrodite. The statue gets life and they married!!!


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## Never2fat4me (Jun 9, 2018)

Colonial Warrior said:


> Dating for a FA besides most of the people think, is more difficult. It's more harder when you are SSBHM who wants a SSBBW.



Not sure it is necessarily harder, but I think you point out two very good things. (To note: I am BHM, not SSBHM, so this is only from my perspective.) In general, I think BHM have it far easier than BBW, insofar as there is far less prejudice against us than BBW. (Which in some way makes sense, where historically man has been the provider - and therefore big and strong is main attribute - while woman has been given the role of mother, where being sexually appealing is the main attribute. Not saying this is right or good, but just a fact of where we have been showing how we got to where we are now.) One thing hard about dating stems in part from that, insofar as we are expected to not like BBW - or even worse, SSBBW - or find them sexy. So you cannot really talk about your prefs in the same way as someone who likes a statuesque blonde might, and you sometimes get disapproval for whom you have chosen to date. But those are just unfortunate speed-bumps on the road to finding a perfect partner and are not hard to deal with. The challenge that bothers me more is how many (most, in my experience) very large SSBBW seem to have a pref for thin men. I don't fault them for it - heck, I am looking for a particular body type (very large SSBBW) - but it does suck and seem a bit ironic to be rejected for being too fat by those who have been rejected for being too fat for all their lives. I can only imagine how much harder it would be for an SSBHM, both in terms of probably there are even fewer SSBBWs who are attracted to SSBHM and because I have seen some women complain about the "logistics" of sex between two supersize partners make them unwilling to be open to a relationship with SSBHM.

Bottom line is, dating sucks for most people and finding the perfect mate is never simple. Just keep up the good fight and you'll find the right woman to spend your life with!


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## biggirlluvher (Jun 9, 2018)

That's basically what I've been going through for the last few years. As I've gotten older and bigger myself, I had in my mind that I was going to pursue relationships with ssbbw. One of the problems with that is that there aren't many ssbbw in this part of Canada and little to no means of meeting them. There is the risk of linguistic differences as well because there is a strong French population in this city. I've made the 6-hour bus trek to & from to take part in some Toronto plus-size community events but at the end of it all, I've returned alone. Very few are ssbbw and they are taken. My being a member of most social media sites related to ssbbw has been my comfort. However, you can only live vicariously for so long. Some sites are a waste of time let alone trying to make a connection with someone. I've tried online dating but most of the bbw profiles are of women smaller than I'm seeking. As much as I'm not happy with the idea of a long distance relationship, I could be content if that were an option on the table now.

July will make 3 years that my longest relationship ended. My ex was smaller than I was looking for as well and I initially didn't want to date her for that reason. I had been single for a while and was mildly interested in her when we first met. I figured I would at least give her, myself and the relationship a chance. Admittedly, I never got over my initial urges for women bigger than her throughout our relationship.

When she ended it, I saw it as the opportunity to finally go for what I want after years of pining, wishing and hoping. I vowed I would not give up on my chances of dating ssbbw and started making some necessary arrangements to change my life. I'm completing a course to be a nurse's aid and considering a few U.S. cities to relocate to better my dating chances.


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## JDavis (Jun 9, 2018)

I think the odds of an FA doing well compared to a non FA partly depend on age. In middle to late age there are way more single women then men, due to men dying younger than women. People also peak in size at around age 50. I think FA men have it way easier than non FA men at middle age. And FA men have it way easier than FFA women at middle age.


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## TwoSwords (Jun 10, 2018)

Never2fat4me said:


> In general, I think BHM have it far easier than BBW, insofar as there is far less prejudice against us than BBW. (Which in some way makes sense, where historically man has been the provider - and therefore big and strong is main attribute - while woman has been given the role of mother, where being sexually appealing is the main attribute.



In my experience, being "sexually appealing" is not in any way the main attribute of motherhood. Being a teacher, a caretaker, a comforter and a provider (in certain ways,) are all much stronger attributes of motherhood, while "sexual appeal"  is more about attracting a mate, than it is about motherhood.



Never2fat4me said:


> One thing hard about dating stems in part from that, insofar as we are expected to not like BBW - or even worse, SSBBW - or find them sexy. So you cannot really talk about your prefs in the same way as someone who likes a statuesque blonde might, and you sometimes get disapproval for whom you have chosen to date. But those are just unfortunate speed-bumps on the road to finding a perfect partner and are not hard to deal with.



Uh... No. I mean, if you're talking about how you can't "talk about your prefs" *with other people, *then* that *would be a minor speed bump. However, not being able to tell a woman how you really feel about her cuts the relationship off at the throat.


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## Never2fat4me (Jun 10, 2018)

TwoSwords said:


> In my experience, being "sexually appealing" is not in any way the main attribute of motherhood. Being a teacher, a caretaker, a comforter and a provider (in certain ways,) are all much stronger attributes of motherhood, while "sexual appeal"  is more about attracting a mate, than it is about motherhood.



Think you're confusing things, TS. Speaking from an evolutionary perspective, it has been a male's imperative to mate with as many women possible in order to maximize the survival and expansion of his genes, while the female has focused on finding someone who will provide good, strong genes that will maximize the survival of her offspring and a good provider who will help ensure the safety (and survival) of their offspring. In humans, this has resulted in men looking for a shapely, attractive woman who will bear plenty of offspring that are as healthy as possible, while woman seek a man who is able to help feed the family well and keep them safe from others. More recently, we have had the luxury of things like "love" and not having to worry so much about our survival, but these things are hard-wired into us and, while not providing absolute direction for the course of our lives and relationships, still have a role in how we think. What you have described is, indeed, an ideal of motherhood to which we all would aspire. But you cannot tell any of these things from simply looking at someone, and looks still are generally what attract men first to a woman ("is she going to provide strong and healthy children?") while women seek something a little more substantial ("is he going to be a good provider?"). This is reflected (generally, not absolutely) in porn for men and women: for men, it is mostly pics and vids, where for women, it is a lot more about romance and complex stories (like "Fifty Shades of Grey".)


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## BountifulBabs (Jun 11, 2018)

Yes and frustratingly so. I'm a FA and attracted to BHM's only. Unfortunately, I get hit on by guys who are muscular or average size. I seem invisible to BHM's, despite my flirting and interest.


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## BigElectricKat (Jun 11, 2018)

BountifulBabs said:


> Yes and frustratingly so. I'm a FA and attracted to BHM's only. Unfortunately, I get hit on by guys who are muscular or average size. I seem invisible to BHM's, despite my flirting and interest.


That would seem odd on the surface. But often, people ignore the the cerebral connection they may have with someone in favor of the physical connection that they don't have and vice versa. I often wonder why a person is attracted to certain types of people, especially the distinctive physical attractions.


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## BountifulBabs (Jun 11, 2018)

BigElectricKat said:


> That would seem odd on the surface. But often, people ignore the the cerebral connection they may have with someone in favor of the physical connection that they don't have and vice versa. I often wonder why a person is attracted to certain types of people, especially the distinctive physical attractions.



The science of attraction is very complex, I guess. I was with and married an average sized man. We had the intellectual/spiritual attraction, but not the sexual attraction. I thought it would come over time, but no. But with large men, I never have that problem. Intellectual and spiritual attraction is important, but physical and sexual attraction also matters and it can't be made or manufactured. Everyone has their individual needs and desires, and (as long as it's consensual) that's okay. People shouldn't be faulted or guilted because of their preferences (as long as it is legal).


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## BigElectricKat (Jun 11, 2018)

BountifulBabs said:


> The science of attraction is very complex, I guess. I was with and married an average sized man. We had the intellectual/spiritual attraction, but not the sexual attraction. I thought it would come over time, but no. But with large men, I never have that problem. Intellectual and spiritual attraction is important, but physical and sexual attraction also matters and it can't be made or manufactured. Everyone has their individual needs and desires, and (as long as it's consensual) that's okay. People shouldn't be faulted or guilted because of their preferences (as long as it is legal).


I agree, totally. I suppose that I could say the same for myself. For most of my adult life, I found that I was attracted to tall women. While "tall" is a relative term, at 5'7" you'd think I'd have had a difficult time finding a woman taller than myself to date. But as it turned out, it wasn't that hard at all. But over time, I noticed that I was ignoring that intellectual attraction for the physical one and that made for my relationships to falter. When I started to prioritize what a person feels and thinks and how it connects with my own thinking, things got so much better. But I agree with everything you've said here.


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## BountifulBabs (Jun 12, 2018)

BigElectricKat said:


> I agree, totally. I suppose that I could say the same for myself. For most of my adult life, I found that I was attracted to tall women. While "tall" is a relative term, at 5'7" you'd think I'd have had a difficult time finding a woman taller than myself to date. But as it turned out, it wasn't that hard at all. But over time, I noticed that I was ignoring that intellectual attraction for the physical one and that made for my relationships to falter. When I started to prioritize what a person feels and thinks and how it connects with my own thinking, things got so much better. But I agree with everything you've said here.



I'm totally with you on that. We can't focus too much on one aspect of a person and forget the rest of what makes them who they are. Also, we need to be clear and focus about who we are as people and on what our values are. Thanks for the reminder.


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## BigElectricKat (Jun 12, 2018)

BountifulBabs said:


> I'm totally with you on that. We can't focus too much on one aspect of a person and forget the rest of what makes them who they are. Also, we need to be clear and focus about who we are as people and on what our values are. Thanks for the reminder.


Not a problem. And thank you for your input. You have a wonderful way of putting thoughts through with such clarity.


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## BountifulBabs (Jun 13, 2018)

BigElectricKat said:


> Not a problem. And thank you for your input. You have a wonderful way of putting thoughts through with such clarity.



Thank you too.


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## TwoSwords (Jun 17, 2018)

Never2fat4me said:


> Think you're confusing things, TS. Speaking from an evolutionary perspective, it has been a male's imperative to mate with as many women possible in order to maximize the survival and expansion of his genes, while the female has focused on finding someone who will provide good, strong genes that will maximize the survival of her offspring and a good provider who will help ensure the safety (and survival) of their offspring.



Maybe if you're a harp seal or a sea turtle, but in most mammals (and particularly, in human beings,) there's a period of care for the young, and it's during that period; necessary to maximize the chances that the young will be able to survive in the world, the traits of motherhood are most clearly demonstrated. Remember, motherhood is not about mating, but about the relationship between a mother and her children.



Never2fat4me said:


> In humans, this has resulted in men looking for a shapely, attractive woman who will bear plenty of offspring that are as healthy as possible,



Except that's false. Being shapely and conventional does not necessarily increase health.



Never2fat4me said:


> More recently, we have had the luxury of things like "love" and not having to worry so much about our survival, but these things are hard-wired into us and, while not providing absolute direction for the course of our lives and relationships, still have a role in how we think.



I find it strange how many people advance these sorts of ideas uncritically, based on theories, without taking into account the day-to-day experiences of the average man. The best evidence for the motives of human behavior is man, after all, and if one was ever going to find evidence to disprove this theory, this would be the place to do it. Indeed, would there even *be* such a thing as an FA if this theory were true *in any way?* I have never considered *any* of these factors in my search for companionship, so therefore, I must either be an exception; not produced by evolution like the rest of you, or else there must be an error in this theory somewhere. That's logic.



Never2fat4me said:


> ...for women, (porn) is a lot more about romance and complex stories (like "Fifty Shades of Grey".)



Which have nothing to do with being a good provider either, so again, this doesn't support the theory. Indeed, when I look at something like Fifty Shades, I actually see a person who is a *terrible* provider, and the situation is even worse in series like "Twilight," where there are men who are *potentially-wonderful* providers, but who are treated like total scum by the central female figure of the work. On the theory/narrative that you've just proposed, books such as these should either not exist, or not be very popular.


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## BigElectricKat (Jun 20, 2018)

Talk about a frustration:

Yesterday, I went to my local Subway to get a sandwich. There were two young ladies working there and both seemed either upset or overwhelmed at the amount of business that seemed to pop up (both in-store and drive-thru). Both seemed rather young (late teens or early 20's at best) from my perspective. Both were attractive but I guess the thinner one assumed she would be the center of attention. She was working the drive-thru and preparing those orders while her counterpart was taking orders at the counter. The young lady at the counter was simply gorgeous. She looked so much like actress Charlize Theron, it was uncanny. But imagine Ms Theron shorter, maybe 5'6", with about an extra 150 lbs, distributed on a sturdy, pear shaped body! Gently flaring hips, large shapely rear, and a nice-but-not-heavy top half. Her hands were lovely.

As she was making my sandwich, I was making polite conversation as I could tell there was some sort of tension between the two prior to my arrival. But every time I would get plus-size Charlize to laugh or smile, the other girl would interject in the conversation. And when big Charlize would walk away for a moment, my eyes would naturally follow her and I think the thinner girl could see this sparkle in my eye. Plus the fact that I would basically tune her out momentarily. I almost ordered another sandwich just so I could hang around a bit longer. I think perhaps another customer before me gave the bigger gal a compliment and the thin one felt envious. I don't know.

The frustrating part is that people sometimes assume they are more (or less) attractive based solely on size, which to me is ridiculous.


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## NaeusofStryx (Jan 9, 2019)

Over my lifetime, I've had a similar idea, that dating as an FA is tougher than for non-FA's. I've thought that the pool to draw from is smaller, even though I live in America which has the highest obesity rate in the world. So, the data doesn't match the idea, or the experience. The problem wasn't my situation, it was my perception and my attitude.

What I've come to realize as I've grown is that it's a matter of perspective. On the one hand, you'll really only count or "see" the people you're interested in when they fit into the perfect box you've made for what is your ideal. All those who are heavier, but you aren't attracted to (whether in terms of shape, looks, style, etc), don't register as strongly on your radar as those who, on a seemingly rare occasion, catch your eye (those who fit your ideal). On the other hand, you'll notice a generally attractive (thinner) person because we are conditioned to notice beauty, in people and in general, even if we're not sexually attracted to them. A non-fa would have just as much "trouble" dating because though they may not have a size preference, they have certain attraction preferences, too, and only have their radar pinged sometimes as well.

Is it a little different/difficult to be an FA/FFA? Sure, but only as far as we accept that in our own minds. The more you give into the idea that it's difficult, that there is some difference, the more you will fortify the idea. The more you stress about not finding your ideal, and the harder you look, the more it will slip through your grasp. However, if you accept your preference as just an expression of nature (which it is) and not worry about social-consciousness/conventions/stigmas (which are just ideas), things will fall into place. Life is hard enough, so we should show ourselves some compassion. Also, rejection and embarrassment are sometimes part of the process. No mud, no lotus.


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## TwoSwords (Jan 9, 2019)

NaeusofStryx said:


> Is it a little different/difficult to be an FA/FFA? Sure, but only as far as we accept that in our own minds. The more you give into the idea that it's difficult, that there is some difference, the more you will fortify the idea. The more you stress about not finding your ideal, and the harder you look, the more it will slip through your grasp. However, if you accept your preference as just an expression of nature (which it is) and not worry about social-consciousness/conventions/stigmas (which are just ideas), things will fall into place. Life is hard enough, so we should show ourselves some compassion. Also, rejection and embarrassment are sometimes part of the process. No mud, no lotus.



It's not just a preference for all of us. Some of us *are not* conditioned to recognize beauty that isn't compatible with our emotions, so this is definitely not the same for everyone. Speaking personally, I've found that the largest challenge I face is finding someone with whom I can share my feelings (fat or thin, man or woman,) and not being treated like scum for having done so. All the positive thinking in the world won't make that problem go away.


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## DragonFly (Jan 10, 2019)

NaeusofStryx said:


> Over my lifetime, I've had a similar idea, that dating as an FA is tougher than for non-FA's. I've thought that the pool to draw from is smaller, even though I live in America which has the highest obesity rate in the world. So, the data doesn't match the idea, or the experience. The problem wasn't my situation, it was my perception and my attitude.
> 
> What I've come to realize as I've grown is that it's a matter of perspective. On the one hand, you'll really only count or "see" the people you're interested in when they fit into the perfect box you've made for what is your ideal. All those who are heavier, but you aren't attracted to (whether in terms of shape, looks, style, etc), don't register as strongly on your radar as those who, on a seemingly rare occasion, catch your eye (those who fit your ideal). On the other hand, you'll notice a generally attractive (thinner) person because we are conditioned to notice beauty, in people and in general, even if we're not sexually attracted to them. A non-fa would have just as much "trouble" dating because though they may not have a size preference, they have certain attraction preferences, too, and only have their radar pinged sometimes as well.
> 
> Is it a little different/difficult to be an FA/FFA? Sure, but only as far as we accept that in our own minds. The more you give into the idea that it's difficult, that there is some difference, the more you will fortify the idea. The more you stress about not finding your ideal, and the harder you look, the more it will slip through your grasp. However, if you accept your preference as just an expression of nature (which it is) and not worry about social-consciousness/conventions/stigmas (which are just ideas), things will fall into place. Life is hard enough, so we should show ourselves some compassion. Also, rejection and embarrassment are sometimes part of the process. No mud, no lotus.




Worth hearing/saying again


“No mud, no lotus”


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## DragonFly (Jan 10, 2019)

TwoSwords said:


> It's not just a preference for all of us. Some of us *are not* conditioned to recognize beauty that isn't compatible with our emotions, so this is definitely not the same for everyone. Speaking personally, I've found that the largest challenge I face is finding someone with whom I can share my feelings (fat or thin, man or woman,) and not being treated like scum for having done so. All the positive thinking in the world won't make that problem go away.


Sounds a little harsh. I have a hard time following that all of your expierences are having been treated like scum. I’m a firm believer that there is someone for everyone.


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## landshark (Jan 10, 2019)

TwoSwords said:


> It's not just a preference for all of us. Some of us *are not* conditioned to recognize beauty that isn't compatible with our emotions, so this is definitely not the same for everyone. Speaking personally, I've found that the largest challenge I face is finding someone with whom I can share my feelings (fat or thin, man or woman,) and not being treated like scum for having done so. All the positive thinking in the world won't make that problem go away.



I think his point is it’s what you make of it. Sort of a “I complained because I had no shoes until I met a man with no feet” sort of thing. You can let experiences shape expectations (and to a great extent we all do that) but you don’t have to let bad experiences taint future expectations/experiences. Unless you want to. 

I also think part of his point is the risk of self fulfilling prophecy. Or maybe confirmation bias. That is, we expect a certain outcome as FAs and any small hint of that outcome and we throw our hands up and say “I knew it all along” and get frustrated.

You’ve been a part of this community for a while now and shared some of your frustrations and experiences. The last thing I mean to do here is trivialize any of that. Your temperament strikes me as pretty melancholy, and there’s certainly nothing wrong with that. But it seems you’re one bad experience away from a total defeatist mindset and I don’t think anyone here wants that for you.

I think @NaeusofStryx makes a lot of good points. Maybe you don’t think they apply to you. I’d suggest if that’s the case you’re a bit of an outlier. Generally speaking “it is what we make it” applies to a lot of things. In Afghanistan i went from late June through early September sleeping on the ground and not a single shower. No complaining though, I was just fine. Here in the states I get annoyed when the stream for the game I’m watching freezes up! 

Challenges, big or small, are often only as big or small as we allow them to be.


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## TwoSwords (Jan 12, 2019)

DragonFly said:


> Sounds a little harsh. I have a hard time following that all of your expierences are having been treated like scum. I’m a firm believer that there is someone for everyone.



I believe this too. The only question is whether you'll find that person, and/or that person will find you before the grave.


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## TwoSwords (Jan 12, 2019)

happily_married said:


> I think his point is it’s what you make of it. Sort of a “I complained because I had no shoes until I met a man with no feet” sort of thing. You can let experiences shape expectations (and to a great extent we all do that) but you don’t have to let bad experiences taint future expectations/experiences. Unless you want to.
> 
> I also think part of his point is the risk of self fulfilling prophecy. Or maybe confirmation bias. That is, we expect a certain outcome as FAs and any small hint of that outcome and we throw our hands up and say “I knew it all along” and get frustrated.
> 
> ...



If you're trying to say I could always be worse off, that's quite correct and a good point. I have many things in my life that have tremendous value for me. But I've learned not to invest too much emotional real estate in the actions of other people. They rarely seek to do unto others what those others have done unto them.

I also agree that "it is what we make it" applies to many things; most of them abstract, though not all. However, this doesn't allow you to change certain things.


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## BouncingBoy (Jan 13, 2019)

1st off I will agree that a lot of BBW have self-image problems & that can basically be blamed on Society pressure.These lovely ladies need to realize THEY run their lives not society.As far as clothing is concerned,to me if a woman has confidence in herself(no matter what size she is) she could make a feed sack look good... Looking good isn't necessarily what you're wearing but on how you present yourself in it.My Mousey is a big girl & she knows she's no "fashion model"(her words) but everything she wears she makes look good!....I'm a lucky man....


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## BigElectricKat (Jan 14, 2019)

TwoSwords said:


> It's not just a preference for all of us. Some of us *are not* conditioned to recognize beauty that isn't compatible with our emotions, so this is definitely not the same for everyone. Speaking personally, I've found that the largest challenge I face is finding someone with whom I can share my feelings (fat or thin, man or woman,) and not being treated like scum for having done so. All the positive thinking in the world won't make that problem go away.


I get where you are coming from. However, isn't that how it is for everyone? Most people have some difficulty in finding a person to truly share their feelings, likes, dislikes, ideas, emotions with in a genuine and unfettered way (this as opposed to just finding someone for sex). I've really taken to vetting any potential paramours before making the decision to "jump in with both feet" so to speak. That is perhaps why I'm still alone after these few months (but that's a tale for another day).
Bottom line, I think Dims and other similar sites are great places to connect with like minded people and share without being judged too harshly.


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## BigElectricKat (Jan 14, 2019)

DragonFly said:


> Sounds a little harsh. I have a hard time following that all of your expierences are having been treated like scum. I’m a firm believer that there is someone for everyone.


I concur.


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## TwoSwords (Jan 14, 2019)

BigElectricKat said:


> I get where you are coming from. However, isn't that how it is for everyone? Most people have some difficulty in finding a person to truly share their feelings, likes, dislikes, ideas, emotions with in a genuine and unfettered way (this as opposed to just finding someone for sex). I've really taken to vetting any potential paramours before making the decision to "jump in with both feet" so to speak. That is perhaps why I'm still alone after these few months (but that's a tale for another day).
> Bottom line, I think Dims and other similar sites are great places to connect with like minded people and share without being judged too harshly.



I fully agree with your approach. You need to be able to connect on a personal level first and foremost, and that's exactly what I was talking about; the ability to find someone with the qualities needed to really listen and share without jumping to incorrect conclusions about you.


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## BigElectricKat (Jan 18, 2019)

TwoSwords said:


> I fully agree with your approach. You need to be able to connect on a personal level first and foremost, and that's exactly what I was talking about; the ability to find someone with the qualities needed to really listen and share without jumping to incorrect conclusions about you.


That's like panning for gold: You go where you think something a nugget may lay, stick your pan in the water and scoop up a bunch of stuff, swish it around, letting all of the junk fall by the wayside, and then sift through the dirt to (hopefully) find what may be valuable! And you may have to do that several times before you find what you are looking for.


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## AmyJo1976 (Jan 18, 2019)

What are you worried about being judged about? If you are honest and open about how you feel, then no woman should judge you. If she does then you've found the answer to whether or not she's the right one for you. If you lie, or are embarrassed about your preferences, then you had a problem to begin with and should address that before you try to find a partner.


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## BigElectricKat (Jan 18, 2019)

AmyJo1976 said:


> What are you worried about being judged about? If you are honest and open about how you feel, then no woman should judge you. If she does then you've found the answer to whether or not she's the right one for you. If you lie, or are embarrassed about your preferences, then you had a problem to begin with and should address that before you try to find a partner.


Maybe it's a case of sharing too much too soon. I can see where that could be a time when someone judges (perhaps too quickly themselves). I can see a scenario where a guy or gal just let's it all hang out right off the bat without first feeling out a person in the hopes that they'll be like minded. And when it turns out that they're not, it can feel like a judgment on your character.


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## AmyJo1976 (Jan 18, 2019)

It can be and I understand that point. My BF held back on his preferences to a point in the beginning. It was great to start out, but then it started to cause him problems. Actually cause both of us problems. He would hold back on things and it would cause problems, not only in the bedroom, but sometimes in just normal convo. Say like if something was brought up, he would dodge the subject. It wasn't until after we had a fight and almost broke up that he confessed to me what was on his mind. I was very understanding in what he had to say. Of course it was his preference for bigger women, as if dating me didn't make in obvious. He just had a hard time coming out with it. There were other things too, but that was the gist of it. Long story short, it's been amazing sense. He doesn't have this demeanor about him that he's trying to hide something. I feels like we're one together!


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## BigElectricKat (Jan 18, 2019)

AmyJo1976 said:


> It can be and I understand that point. My BF held back on his preferences to a point in the beginning. It was great to start out, but then it started to cause him problems. Actually cause both of us problems. He would hold back on things and it would cause problems, not only in the bedroom, but sometimes in just normal convo. Say like if something was brought up, he would dodge the subject. It wasn't until after we had a fight and almost broke up that he confessed to me what was on his mind. I was very understanding in what he had to say. Of course it was his preference for bigger women, as if dating me didn't make in obvious. He just had a hard time coming out with it. There were other things too, but that was the gist of it. Long story short, it's been amazing sense. He doesn't have this demeanor about him that he's trying to hide something. I feels like we're one together!


Exactly!


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## loopytheone (Jan 19, 2019)

I find it really interesting hearing other people's stories about how they meet people etc. I've only ever been in two long term relationships and both of them started with me knowing that other person was an FA. And in one case, them knowing that I like their chub too. So the idea of getting into a relationship with someone before mentioning this to them is foreign to me and very interesting


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## Shotha (Jan 19, 2019)

I always make my position clear from the start. I'm fat and I'm staying fat and I'm only interested in guys with the same aims. I also make it clear that I'm openly gay and am not interested in closeted gays. I can't be bothered with all the hiding and subterfuge. I believe in honesty. It prevents a lot of problems.


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## landshark (Mar 1, 2019)

This thread is due for an update.

This is one I’ve been hesitant to share, but here we go!

Something that has always frustrated me is when you tell people you prefer plus size women, or fat girls, or however you want to put it, and they assume that means you find all overweight women attractive. Or they trot out some crazy extreme example like “so you’d take it to Honey Boo Boo’s mom?” (Sorry for the dated example, I’m just citing one I’ve actually been asked.) 

Just like guys who don’t like fat chicks don’t necessarily like every skinny girl they see, guys who do like fat chicks likely don’t find someone attractive JUST BECAUSE SHE’S FAT! And right along with that is the assumption I have a fetish and I’d put my little buddy inside any woman who weighs more than 300 pounds...

I wouldn’t mention it if I hadn’t encountered it.


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## BigElectricKat (Mar 1, 2019)

I can absolutely relate to this on myriad levels. I've had the same types of questions asked of me as well.


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## extra_m13 (Mar 1, 2019)

yes, i absolutely agree and concurr. and while yes... being fat is one important element not all fat girls are the same in terms of personalitie or even just plain beauty or shape. the struggle is the same, finding the person that can make you whole goes beyond how heavy she is


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## Shotha (Mar 2, 2019)

happily_married said:


> Something that has always frustrated me is when you tell people you prefer plus size women, or fat girls, or however you want to put it, and they assume that means you find all overweight women attractive.



I think that this is a common mistake that people make with other people's preferences. It's like the reaction that we used to see towards gay men. Some people would react to a gay man's presence at an event with comments about how none of the other men present would be safe. We still far from having other members of society understanding how anyone can prefer fat people as partners. We need to get people to understand that it doesn't mean that we find all fat people attractive. In my case, I'm attracted to fat men but there are many more things that go into making a man attractive to me. I can well appreciate that heterosexual FA men have the same things happen to them. Not all fat people have the same build and how the dress, how they speak, how they behave, their attitudes and values and many more things play a part in attractiveness. If we want people to understand us, then we need to explain these things to them. However, our happiness doesn't depend on other people understanding us.

The issue about us being fetishized is interesting. I don't think that the preference for fat people is a fetish. Many would disagree with me over this point. My thoughts about this have been unclear for a long time. However, I have recently started to ask myself a couple questions. Why does the preference for a certain body type, in my case for fat men, make me a fetishist? If I'm a fetishist, then why aren't all of the people, who will only go with thin people, fetishists? Is their preoccupation with one body type different from my preoccupation with one body type? I'd love to get a T-shirt printed with the following words:

*NO-FAT-CHICK-NIKS*​*ARE*​*FETISHISTS*​


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## LizzieJones (Mar 2, 2019)

happily_married said:


> Something that has always frustrated me is when you tell people you prefer plus size women, or fat girls, or however you want to put it, and they assume that means you find all overweight women attractive



I get the same reaction when I tell people that I like big, older, tall men. I don't find them all attractive .


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## Blockierer (Mar 2, 2019)

It does't matter what society thinks, preference or fetish. In my case I've always wanted a fat women. Not only to satisfy my sexual desires, e.g. I'm getting aroused by a wobbling fat belly. No, I had the feeling I should share my life with a fat woman in a society who does not understand this preference or fetish.
I had to realise that it doesn't matter what others think about my preference for fat. It's my fat fantasy that counts. At one point in my life I started to be completely open about my preference. Then I was able to date fat women. Now I'm married to 400 lbs woman.


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## Starling (Mar 2, 2019)

I haven’t had a problem with people thinking my preferences were ‘bad’ or ‘weird’ as an adult, but I’ve also never met a guy in real life who was as big as I was interested in while also being as good looking as I like. Most of the people I’ve dated are Cute Chubby Guys rather than Big Handsome Men. I’ve always fantasized about dating a crazy handsome guy who was 350 or so, but have never met anyone who matched that description in real life. Part of it being that with the exception of college in the Midwest, I’ve always lived places in the US and Canada that were quite fit (by NA standards at least).

I fell in love with an amazing guy who was about 230 lbs, which is quite small for my taste. Even though he’s since gained 30/40 lbs, I still sometimes wrap my arms around him and wish there was a bit more belly, love handle, or rear to hold on to. But that’s not a bad problem to have, plus I think my husband likes that I think he’s a little skinny for me. He says it’s a nice change from constantly being told to lose weight by SOs.


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## Shotha (Mar 2, 2019)

Blockierer said:


> It does't matter what society thinks, preference or fetish. In my case I've always wanted a fat women. Not only to satisfy my sexual desires, e.g. I'm getting aroused by a wobbling fat belly. No, I had the feeling I should share my life with a fat woman in a society who does not understand this preference or fetish.



That's an interesting point. People think that our attraction towards fat people is just a sex thing. Fat men, in my case, don't just get me sexually aroused. They're people that I fall in love with. I have romantic feelings for them. I send them Valentine cards and flowers. I wan't to settle down for life with them. I don't have casual sex. It doesn't interest me. If I go out with a guy, I'm always hoping for more than a one-night stand. Despite all of this, people still think that I do it just for the sex. Many people don't realize that FA's can have very deep feelings for there partners. They fail to realize that we love a fat person, because they could never love one.


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## Tad (Mar 4, 2019)

My interest in, and preference for, fat people preceded puberty and extends to people that I have no sexual interest in. For me I think the sexual attraction mostly stems from the general preference. Others will no doubt differ.


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