# The numbers and shame game



## penguin (Feb 16, 2012)

I'm at a point where I really do like my body as it is, and can look at myself in both my naked and dressed states and think I'm looking pretty good. But when it comes to the numbers, it's a different matter. I'm okay with the numbers when it's bra, dress or shirt sizes, but when it comes to skirt, pants, underpants, measurements or weight it's different and I'm not sure why. I guess it's because society tells us that certain numbers are okay and desirable and others aren't, and even though I know that's not true, it's a hard thing to shake. It's all internal, too, because I can fine with it in general and for other people, but when it comes to _me_ and my numbers, it's wrong, it's too big, I'm too fat, it's embarrassing.

It's especially hard to tell someone else what those numbers are, and I have to fight to not be overwhelmed by such a sense of shame to admit what size I need, even to someone who loves fat women. You'd think it'd be easy then, but it's not. Even if I know they're more than okay with it, it's just so hard to get past. 

It's kind of strange, I guess, because from what I've seen, a lot of FAs LOVE the numbers game. You see it all over the boards, where they talk about how big this model's ass is and how heavy that one is. The numbers are _good_ to them, but I get the feeling a lot of them have no idea what the real world application of having them is like. Certainly not when it comes to buying underwear or pants to fit over your thighs and butt. It's one reason I prefer loose fitting dresses and skirts, because I know they'll fit over. I miss wearing pants, because I'm not sure my thighs will fit into the ones advertised, even on the fat girl sites.

Long ramble aside, I was interested in who else feels or has felt this way, and what do you do to work past it?


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## sgageny (Feb 17, 2012)

I definitely can feel your pain on the pants side of things, I can rarely (never?) Find jeans in my size or many pants and after many change room shaming episodes (Fucking unhelpful sales assistants) I usually just op for a skirt/dress option. 
Its shitty cause I like to think of myself as a body confident kick arse kinda gal. Then my traitor self conscious side turns up to kick my notion of having body acceptance in the arse. 

I'm fine naked and in a skirt......body issues = zero. But get me in a pair of pants and twilight zone less confident me appears. 

I gotta work past those demons. I guess it always shows that personal growth(pun) is a never ending cycle.


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## LifeTraveller (Feb 17, 2012)

penguin said:


> It's especially hard to tell someone else what those numbers are, and I have to fight to not be overwhelmed by such a sense of shame to admit what size I need, even to someone who loves fat women. You'd think it'd be easy then, but it's not. Even if I know they're more than okay with it, it's just so hard to get past.



I hope no one will mind if I interject my little bit of foolishness in here.

What I want to say to you penguin, is this... Thank you for giving me a bit of insight into something about my late wife I never understood. We talked about almost everything, but in our last 10 years together, we never ever discussed her weight, or size, at least not "the numbers". While I was curious, I never dwelt on it, I was sure if I needed to know for some reason she would tell me. 

My wife was barely 5'1 so when she shopped for clothes, she had to go to the "petite" section of the two local places that had her sizes available. I was rarely privileged to go with her, since most of the time she went while I was working. I did notice that as she reached a certain "size" she began doing something I thought strange. .she began removing the size tags from her clothes. 

It didn't dawn on me at first, I mean sometimes tags disappear, or fall off, but none of hers were there. (we shared laundry duties quite often) I thought it odd, but realized she didn't want me to know how "big" she had gotten, or at least not what "size" she was. I really didn't care, but once she passed the 300 pound mark the tags began to disappear. I don't even remember what size she was, but it was after a doctor's visit. 

She was so self-conscious of it, even when she became very ill, and I was taking her to the doctor, or hospital. . I left the room when they weighed her, (out of respect for her wishes of course) It wasn't until after a surgery she had to remove an abscess from her spine (which had paralyzed her) that I learned what her actual weight was. (the bed had a scale built into it) I never let her know I found out. I'm not going to say what the number was, it's unimportant, but it was to her. . 

I never understood these things, I always did what I could to let her know how beautiful, special and loved she was, and she knew. . She let everyone know how loved and cared for she was. . yet she was never able to overcome those numerical demons. . 

I want to thank you again, for shedding some light on these things, it's something I had indeed wondered about, but never had an answer for. .Thanks for being so open.. It is truly appreciated!


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## penguin (Feb 18, 2012)

sgageny said:


> I'm fine naked and in a skirt......body issues = zero. But get me in a pair of pants and twilight zone less confident me appears.
> 
> I gotta work past those demons. I guess it always shows that personal growth(pun) is a never ending cycle.



It really is something we have to keep working on. I guess I need to make myself some pants, because then I'll be sure they'll fit my thighs and butt. I'm not sure my skills are quite up to that as yet, but practice will make perfect, and it might make it easier for me to work through those issues.



LifeTraveller said:


> I want to thank you again, for shedding some light on these things, it's something I had indeed wondered about, but never had an answer for. .Thanks for being so open.. It is truly appreciated!



You're welcome


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## Jeeshcristina (Feb 21, 2012)

sgageny said:


> I definitely can feel your pain on the pants side of things, I can rarely (never?) Find jeans in my size or many pants and after many change room shaming episodes (Fucking unhelpful sales assistants) I usually just op for a skirt/dress option.
> Its shitty cause I like to think of myself as a body confident kick arse kinda gal. Then my traitor self conscious side turns up to kick my notion of having body acceptance in the arse.
> 
> I'm fine naked and in a skirt......body issues = zero. But get me in a pair of pants and twilight zone less confident me appears.
> ...



THIS is spot on. As soon as the jeans come on, the confidence goes down. It's something about a pair of jeans that can make you look super hot, or really really awful. I've learned that a straight leg works best on me, and I try to find a more relaxed thigh when possible. A Levis 512 in a bootcut is a pretty flattering style as well. 

I feel lazy if I go the leggings route, so I'm always on the hunt for longer dresses/skirts.


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## Sweetnlow (Mar 2, 2012)

I weigh 319 pounds which is 145 kg. I am about 5´8 tall or 173 cm. I've gained about 50 lbs the past year and i have outgrown my pants. The weight gain has caused sort of immobility i can't go boxing like i used to do. I have no problem with the numbers at all. I wear the biggest size in the plus size store and i don't care. What bothers me is that i can't do sports like i could when i was smaller. So I guess it's different for everyone. If i weighed 500 lbs and could move i wouldn't mind. Hope you get my point.


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## penguin (Mar 2, 2012)

I do get your point, but it doesn't really help me much.


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## CarlaSixx (Mar 2, 2012)

I know the numbers game is so frustrating. I don't see myself weighing as much as I do. I don't feel I weigh as much as I do and I don't feel I look the size in numbers that I am.

Mind you, most women at my size weigh less than I do while they're still taller than me, so that in itself is frustrating. The fact that I look like I weigh at least 75 lbs less than I actually do is something that frustrates me to no end. And when I try to lose weight, I will go down in dress sizes, but my weight will go up, and I get angry and frustrated, so I stop all efforts. 

The numbers game has been the worst part of being fat. When I can ignore the numbers, life as a fat person is barely noticeably different than that of a thin person. At least for me.


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## CastingPearls (Mar 2, 2012)

I weigh more than I look too. It's been medically explained but it doesn't help. 

When someone asks me my 'numbers', I don't appreciate it because there's so much more to me than a number, and it's often the first thing a stranger asks, not to mention the men who say, you don't LOOK like you're an SSBBW.....are you sure you are one? 

I don't feel any shame over them. I've posted my weight here and there. And I don't think it's the defacto ultimate acceptance of oneself to proudly announce it. For some yes, for others, no. 

Then I have the opposite effect of Carla--I've lost 75 lbs. and not dropped more than a dress size. I waltz into a plus-size store thinking I can fit into their largest sheath style dress and I can't get it over my head or up past my mid calf and think--wtf... I DO like my body at its shape, size and weight (mostly) and don't plan on any future renovating but truly, when it comes to bodies, never mind clothing, one size does not fit all, whether it be the owner or the admirer.


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## lovelocs (Mar 3, 2012)

I'm with everyone on pants. Skirts and leggings all the way.

As for numbers, I don't know what to say. You could be like me, and not have the ability to make normative judgements based on abstract data, or you could be like most other functioning people. Numbers don't mean mush to me, which is why I have the damndest time getting stressed over deadlines, keeping pinpoint track of time or money, or accurately gauging distances. For me, there is enough and not enough, and close and I-don't-know-where-it-is. It is actually this inability to quantify things which leads me to gain in the first place. I simply don't think that I'm eating that much (I rarely eat to the point of discomfort), and 200 lbs is the same as 250 in the grand cosmic scheme. I have a friend who feels short at 5'3", and I think of her as the same height as me (5'9"). If I don't have to crane my neck to look up at you, or stoop to talk to you, you're my height. 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you are able to feel any horror over debt, get stressed over deadlines, or accurately plan an itinerary, your weight shame may just be the flip side of your brain's ability to do those things.


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## Halie (Mar 4, 2012)

penguin said:


> *snip*
> It's especially hard to tell someone else what those numbers are, and I have to fight to not be overwhelmed by such a sense of shame to admit what size I need, even to someone who loves fat women. You'd think it'd be easy then, but it's not. Even if I know they're more than okay with it, it's just so hard to get past.



I can relate to this. At one point, I couldn't even bring myself to tell my mom what size my bottom half was. I've done things such as cut the size label out of coats in case someone noticed the number when I took my coat off. Which they wouldn't, unless they've got eyesight like a hawk.

I even have a rail in one of my storage cupboards with about 5 pairs of jeans (never been worn and still with tags) ranging from a UK 22 - 24. Friends and family, over the years, have guessed at my size and bought me them as Christmas presents. I've just always sheepishly accepted them and there they hang gathering dust.

FWIW I'm a UK 24-26 top, 30-32 bottom and I haven't been able to get in a 24 pair of jeans/trousers since I was in my teens.




penguin said:


> Long ramble aside, I was interested in who else feels or has felt this way, and what do you do to work past it?



I pretend it doesn't bother me. I'll give them out matter-of-fact and I find this the best way for me. I won't make jokes about it though, for e.g. I couldn't ever say "Oh, I need 'fatty sizes'" as I did that once and the supervisor looked at me as if I was cracked.

When I started at my present job (and even now) I was the largest woman there. I would constantly handwring as to why they took me on, I'm no 'dolly'. We also have to wear a uniform and when I was asked for my sizes so it could be ordered I just wanted to run out of there. Until I realised the person didn't have a smile or smirk on their face. 

I figured then, I needed to get a grip of myself and make out this is no big deal to me even though it was. The person didn't even blink, just wrote it down.

Even when the suit came in and the trousers didn't fit me there were never any snidey remarks or laughter to my face - which I was expecting. I don't doubt they might comment out of my earshot but I've never had any nastiness to my face about my size from my colleagues.

I still feel I have to pluck up courage to ask the shop staff in Evans for my correct size. Also if I walk around a shop with an item of clothing, I'll put my thumb over the little button on the hanger that tells you what size it is (again, in case someone with hawk-eyes can see it from a distance ) but thanks to work, I don't get _as_ anxious or secretive about sharing my stats with people as I used to.


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## ConnieLynn (Mar 4, 2012)

I'm 5'4" and weigh 335. I'm not ashamed of the numbers and I never fudge the numbers if asked. Doesn't mean I won't say 'none of your business' if I feel someone is being rude, but I certainly don't lie about my weight on my driver's license. 

Numbers shame isn't just fat girl territory; smaller sized women have the same hangups. So do guys. It's all worrying about what someone else will think of you, and wanting their approval, but the fact is that you can't hide fat, or short, or tall, or any other physical attribute. I have a massive backside. If someone is going to judge me (positively or negatively) based on the size of my butt, the numbers aren't going to make any difference. I'm not 'proud' to be a fat chick -- it's not like it's a goal that I accomplished -- but I refuse to be apologetic or ashamed of my physical package. Did I always take this stance? No, but I've been fat forever and lived a lot of years, and learned to love myself and to say 'fuck them' along the way 

The fashion industry sucks. I love how I look naked. I'd like to love how I look dressed, but the options just aren't out there to dress the way I want to dress without either tailoring items that I buy or having clothes made from scratch. I don't have the money, time, or energy for either. I buy the majority of my clothes online and mostly stick to jeans and casual tops. I tend to go for comfort over fashion. Used to feel bad about that every now and then, but a few months ago I read a blog post that I immediately wanted to share with every woman I know because of this one line: "Prettiness is not a rent you pay for occupying a space marked 'female'."

You Don't Have to Be Pretty

@penguin - We have similar shapes. Jeans not fitting my thighs is common. I wear these jeans from Woman Within in size 30 average. They ship internationally, jeans are often on sale, and often will have a coupon for free shipping / free returns.


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## Marlayna (Mar 4, 2012)

lovelocs said:


> I'm with everyone on pants. Skirts and leggings all the way.
> 
> As for numbers, I don't know what to say. You could be like me, and not have the ability to make normative judgements based on abstract data, or you could be like most other functioning people. Numbers don't mean mush to me, which is why I have the damndest time getting stressed over deadlines, keeping pinpoint track of time or money, or accurately gauging distances. For me, there is enough and not enough, and close and I-don't-know-where-it-is. It is actually this inability to quantify things which leads me to gain in the first place. I simply don't think that I'm eating that much (I rarely eat to the point of discomfort), and 200 lbs is the same as 250 in the grand cosmic scheme. I have a friend who feels short at 5'3", and I think of her as the same height as me (5'9"). If I don't have to crane my neck to look up at you, or stoop to talk to you, you're my height.
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you are able to feel any horror over debt, get stressed over deadlines, or accurately plan an itinerary, your weight shame may just be the flip side of your brain's ability to do those things.


That's a very interesting concept about the brain and what it focuses on. I believe you're right.

I get on the scale every few months, to see if more fat is sneaking up on me, and while that is usually the case, it's important for me to make more mindful choices, if I can.

I wear jeans with elastic waists, which stay up better, even though the material on the butt and thighs usually bag.
For some reason I don't do that well in skirts because big belly and smaller ass makes it hang all wrong, and I sometimes wind up wearing the back as the front.
I suppose I could alter the hem in the back to equal the front, but I don't sew, nor am I that picky when it comes to fashion perfection.
I wish they had an apple store just for apple shapes, it would make my shopping experience more of a joy, than a chore.


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## 1love_emily (Mar 6, 2012)

Honestly, pants suck. 

Because no two brands have the same size. And I have not found a pair of pants that actually fit. I have not found a pair of jeans that are tight through hip and calf, straight leg through the ankle that fit tight on my booty and comfortable on my waist. All that fit my belly are too loose all over, and the ones that fit my legs are too tight on my belly. I'm really pissed off.

Why do companies not realize that we are all shaped differently and then should get jeans cut differently!?!:doh:


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## Halie (Mar 7, 2012)

Hmm I agree, no two pairs of trousers being the same size - even in the same shop! - totally twists my melon. 

I was lucky to find two pairs of corduroy trousers in a sale in Evans, yesterday. Both are a size 30, standard leg - not a size I would usually pick up but I thought I'd chance my luck and tried them on. They both fit perfectly across my belly and hips but while one is just right in the leg, the other pair are a touch long 

Cord is not exactly the most giving of materials and these aren't stretch, either.


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## aocutiepi (Mar 10, 2012)

CastingPearls said:


> When someone asks me my 'numbers', I don't appreciate it because there's so much more to me than a number, and it's often the first thing a stranger asks, not to mention the men who say, you don't LOOK like you're an SSBBW.....are you sure you are one?




I just had this same thing happen to me, Casting. A guy was like, "Why are you calling yourself a BBW?" 

My response, of course, was that I am big and beautiful and a woman, so it seems to fit.

He followed with, "But you don't look fat!"

I responded, "Well, I'm currently bouncing between 250-260 pounds, so I'd say I'm fat."

I was offended by this whole exchange, which I find a testament to how much Dims has boosted my self-confidence. I think he intended it to be flattery but it annoyed the crap out of me.

Then of course, he followed five minutes later with "Full body pics or I won't believe it..." which screamed skeevy to me. 




FWIW, when I tell people I need to lose over 100 pounds to be at a "normal" weight they shake their heads in disbelief... like they have this idea in their head of what those numbers look like and I don't match it. 

I ripped a hole in my only pair of pajama pants the other night and I had to run to the shop with my lab partner, a former beauty queen. Size 5/6. And when we popped into the Old Navy, where I usually get my pajama pants, they only had pants in stock up to XL... I usually get a XXL. I scanned the racks, frustrated, searching for an elusive XXL while bemoaning that they didn't have my size. She picked up a large and said, "Here! These are cute! You should try these on!" Like I could fit my big ole ass into a large. Please. 

We ended up going to Target and Kohl's before I got so discouraged and ashamed that I resolved to order online from Old Navy and get express shipping. I couldn't bear to make her deal with my dilemma of not fitting in "normal" stores. I'm not sure why I get so embarrassed, since I'm becoming more comfortable with the numbers and the sizes... I guess it's just the shame from my youth coming back to rear it's ugly head.


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## lovelocs (Mar 11, 2012)

Shopping with thin friends absolutely sucks plums.


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## TexasTrouble (Mar 11, 2012)

lovelocs said:


> Shopping with thin friends absolutely sucks plums.



I know! And sometimes it's the "understanding" friends that make it worse. "What do you mean they don't have your size?!" It's a whole new new world for them.


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## imaginarydiva21 (Mar 11, 2012)

CarlaSixx said:


> I know the numbers game is so frustrating. I don't see myself weighing as much as I do. I don't feel I weigh as much as I do and I don't feel I look the size in numbers that I am.
> 
> Mind you, most women at my size weigh less than I do while they're still taller than me, so that in itself is frustrating. The fact that I look like I weigh at least 75 lbs less than I actually do is something that frustrates me to no end. And when I try to lose weight, I will go down in dress sizes, but my weight will go up, and I get angry and frustrated, so I stop all efforts.



this is post for me is spot oni dont see a fat girl in the mirror and for what i weigh my clothes size should be alot bigger i suppose it just comes down to body shapes and style of clothes :happy:


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## b0nnie (Mar 11, 2012)

I hate the numbers game and not really because of the numbers but because of the importance others seem to put on them, the labels and ideas that come to their heads once they hear the numbers; I hate how people turn their head to one side and get that 'thinking' look while they look you up and down once they hear the numbers. I hate how some numbers are looked down on in the plus size community and how they are sneered at in the 'normal' world.

I usually don't tell people my numbers anymore just because I get so annoyed when I do tell people and they feel the need to tell me something along the lines of: 

-"There is no way you weight that much." 
-"Are you _sure _you wear _that _size?"

or from FA types:

-"That size isn't BBW, you shouldn't call yourself that." 
-"Aww...you're so _tiny_"
-"You'd be really hot a few sizes bigger."

or the one I hate the most from anyone:

-"You aren't really _fat_"

I hate how some think I should be complimented by the fact that I look smaller then what I am and how others make me feel as if I'm less of person just because I'm not fatter, its as if being my size is something that is wrong or bad. I hate how some people in the BBW/FA community have told me (after talking numbers) that I might be a bit "chubby" but since I'm not really that big I don't understand most things that they talk about. I hate going into regular stores and getting weird looks from the skinny girls and I hate when I go into some plus size stores and get mean looks from the girls who are bigger then me.

I'm 5'3" about 250lbs, wear between a 16-24 depending on style, material, and all that crap. Buying pants suck; they fit my waist but are super baggy on my bottom and thighs, or they fit perfect on my legs but I can't get them to button on my tummy and if I am able to button them, I can't breathe or move. Actually buying lots of things kinda sucks...I have broad shoulders so sometimes a blouse/dress will look as it fits perfectly until I move my arms forward and I feel as if I'm going to rip out the back like the Hulk transforming. Buying underwear is the worse, the butt is too big, the waist is too high/not high enough, they fit perfectly but only for the first hour then they feel like a diaper. Ughh

I've dealt with it all by saying fuck it. I'm finally at a point in my life where I'm happy with me and I've stopped giving the power to those damn numbers and people's reactions to them. I look at clothes I like, and then proceed to try it on in about three different sizes...it's not about the size anymore for me but how the fit is. *My numbers might belong to me but they do not define me.*


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## imaginarydiva21 (Mar 11, 2012)

b0nnie said:


> *My numbers might belong to me but they do not define me.*



:bow: i love this statement you made :bow:


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## superodalisque (Nov 30, 2012)

IMO think people have to stop playing the shame game to be free. we are what we are. our poundage, our measurements our ages etc... it's all a part of us. why be ashamed? it's true that it's not all of who we are but but we should not be running from that part of ourselves. it's our body. it's something to love.

its the way we live the rest of our lives that determines what out lasting identity will be with other people and whether all we ever let them see is our size because that is all we're ever concentrated on. we are the ones who set our definitions. if you concentrate on fat that is what you'll be to the people around you. 

we have a choice about whether we keep accepting what society throws at us and i think we really need to stop using society as a reason why we keep beating ourselves up over who and what we are. we know its bogus to define our worth by that but we do it anyway. at the point when you know its bogus it becomes your responsibility to stop torturing yourself with it. if someone still insists on torturing themselves with it they should ask themselves why and what road can they get on to feel that they are worth more than the self flagellation for something they don't even believe in. 

people who keep buying into it and feeling ashamed about their own numbers are only supporting the messed up part of society by being secretive. it's not really worth complaining about if you're not willing to break that old tired taboo because like it or not you're a big part of it. until an individual person can address their size, numbers and all, with the same emotional investment as they do their hair or eye color nothing will ever change for them. it's inside of you not outside of you.


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## superodalisque (Nov 30, 2012)

i'm going to throw something out there for discussion and/or thought. i don't think all thin people mean it as being dismissive or are even trying to be "nice" when they say they don't think of you as fat. for some they are saying they don't associate you with fat negativity and are not driven by what magazines and t.v say to assess you. they may be saying that they don't see you body judgment first. some see you as a friend first or a lover first or a coworker first or an intellectual playmate first. a lot of people really don't give a damn about your size. they have other things they'd rather think about. 

i'm not sure the mentality you can get online that seems supportive in the beginning is always a healthy one, especially for the long term, because by their measure you do often go into the world fat first. it can be easy to forget that not everyone thinks that way IRL. even for people that do notice size initially it might be for the first ten seconds until you open your mouth and your human identity starts flowing out. if it's still so important after that something is wrong with the person and they just might even be some kind of sociopath no matter if they're are pro or against because YOU aren't mainly a person to them.


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## LifeTraveller (Nov 30, 2012)

superodalisque said:


> i'm not sure the mentality you can get online that seems supportive in the beginning is always a healthy one, especially for the long term, because by their measure you do often go into the world fat first. it can be easy to forget that not everyone thinks that way IRL. even for people that do notice size initially it might be for the first ten seconds until you open your mouth and your human identity starts flowing out. if it's still so important after that something is wrong with the person and they just might even be some kind of sociopath no matter if they're are pro or against because YOU aren't mainly a person to them.



I really enjoyed your point here. It spoke to me quite personally. .IRL until you have interacted with someone, you have no idea other than visual stimuli on what to think of someone. Unless of course your interaction has been via non-visual means, like say the telephone, or text message... I'm only human, and so I confess the first time I saw a picture of SD, I thought her breathtaking. . However, after seeing posts from her here, and meeting her briefly at some function a few years ago, my overall feelings about her were more "fleshed out"(forgive the term) if you will. There's a great insight and intellect behind those eyes, (oh yes I look you in the eye, I want to see them) a full and complete human being, not that all different from myself. 

I'm not one to go on and on. . just let me suffice to say, you need to be willing to get to know someone. Most of us are guilty of "labeling" people. I think it's part of our culture, I try not to do so, yet I'm subject to such frailties myself. It's worth the effort, if you want to get to know someone properly.


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## PeanutButterfly (Nov 30, 2012)

The worst part of the number shame game is not being able to buy clothes at the same stores as the rest of my friends. I'm a smaller BBW and I oscillate between a size 16 and 18 in jeans but can easily wear a size large or 12-14 top. So I'm ok when I want to go shopping for shirts with my friends but I can't bring myself to tell them that H&M's biggest jeans won't even get past my calf. So I NEVER go shopping with them for jeans because I'm too embarassed to ask them to go to Torrid with me. I doubt they've ever noticed but it's something I think about quite a bit. 

In like the past 5 years some mainstream stores like Forever 21 have started to offer plus sizes which makes so super happy, EXCEPT they won't put them in stores. Like fat girls should just shame shop at home in the dark and not dare walk into their stores in the light of day. It's really frustrating because sometimes I actually want to try my jeans on instead of ordering offline and hoping for the best. Or I see this really cute dress that is finally made in my size but I have to pay an extra $7 shipping on top of the extra plus size price just to get it. I really hope that someday young fat girls will be able to go to these stores with their friends, find clothes that actually fit them and not be embarassed.

Or boots. Why is it that they only carry Wide Calf boots online? Skinny people have no idea how nice it is to waltz into a store and just try on a pair of riding boots. I just recently bought a Micheal Kors leather jacket in a 1x and I'm usually not a sucker for designers but it was such a great feeling to be able to buy something most college girls lust after and have it fit! I'm actually considering writing them an email thanking them for making leather jackets in 1x, 2x and 3x. Oddly enough I did have the urge to cut the size tag out but I refrained and I'm quite proud that I did. I wear a 1x, its ok to plus size. If I don't accept that first, how I can expect designers to create clothes for us?

I think the clothing issue is probably my biggest qualm being fat and when I still get the number/shame issue.


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## bbwfairygirl (Nov 30, 2012)

superodalisque said:


> IMO think people have to stop playing the shame game to be free. we are what we are. our poundage, our measurements our ages etc... it's all a part of us. why be ashamed? it's true that it's not all of who we are but but we should not be running from that part of ourselves. it's our body. it's something to love.
> 
> its the way we live the rest of our lives that determines what out lasting identity will be with other people and whether all we ever let them see is our size because that is all we're ever concentrated on. we are the ones who set our definitions. if you concentrate on fat that is what you'll be to the people around you.
> 
> ...



Playing devil's advocate here, the "easier said than done" aspect from my perspective and experiences with those who don't have, or haven't had, a good, healthy support network be it family, spiritual/religious, therapeutic or community life.

Unfortunately at times shame is almost forced upon a person. Take a child in elementary/middle school who is bullied for their size. Physically abused, called names, etc. Or a child growing up in a familial situation where they are abused in any way about how they look. 

Someone who has been in a position where they receive no support, no understanding or expectation that they are valid just the way they are, how can they know that they shouldn't feel shame? 

As adults we are supposed to be responsible for our actions, our lives, etc. but imagine going out to enjoy a picnic at a park, or walk the mall, etc. and you are bombarded incessantly by nasty comments, etc. Or trying to shop for clothes and none fit. Or having your Dr tell you that your problems are because you weight "X" number, etc. Over time it becomes difficult to avoid internalizing these comments and actions by others and shame can prevail. 

I wholly believe we should not support and give into the numbers game but it can be easier said than done for many. How about people who read Cosmo or any other glam rag? That supports the numbers game. What about designer clothes? Shopping at Whole Foods? Visiting the dr's office? There are so many pieces of our lives that support the numbers game so we have to take a close look as to how to change this and to know that it can be a challenge for many to overcome the fear of their numbers. 

My .02 cents


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## superodalisque (Dec 2, 2012)

bbw.fairy.girl said:


> Playing devil's advocate here, the "easier said than done" aspect from my perspective and experiences with those who don't have, or haven't had, a good, healthy support network be it family, spiritual/religious, therapeutic or community life.
> 
> Unfortunately at times shame is almost forced upon a person. Take a child in elementary/middle school who is bullied for their size. Physically abused, called names, etc. Or a child growing up in a familial situation where they are abused in any way about how they look.
> 
> ...



and a very good .02 cents it is. there is a whole lot of truth to that. its great to empathize and understand where people have come from and where they are trying to go. but at some point we all grow up, move away from our families, understand the difference between media and real life. we have to push ourselves or we'll stay stuck in old miserable habits because we think familiarity is easier than change. 

i hate to make this analogy but it's the only one i can think of that makes what i mean clear. the lack of self acceptance can be like like domestic abuse and drug addiction. it can be the only way of living that people have actually known in their life, just as you said. it's sad but they sometimes have to hit rock bottom to decide to change their life and put a plan into action if things are ever going to get better. i've seen some people get it just talking to to other people. one person i know got it when she talked to a friend of mine who is anorexic and realized she was having similar thoughts. i had another got it when she found out she had untreatable cancer. some people seem to just come to it on their own because they are just tired of living that way.

the quest for personal approval from others can be like an addiction and abuse. it's when someone is constantly looking for something or someone else to make things alright for them in a dysfunctional way. i can forget my troubles if i have that pill or if i can figure out how to be emotionally dance around enough tonight to get through it alive. living like that is hard, unfairly hard. but if we're ever going to get out of it we have to make the effort ourselves . if we can manage to come out on the other side it's well worth it. just like a drug addict or abuse victim we still have to live in a world where our friends relatives and acquaintances do drugs and engage in abuse as though its a normal thing. same with the lack of self acceptance. we are always surrounded by it in one form or another by people who somehow make it okay.

i want to help and protect anybody who doesn't have self acceptance yet but i also don't want to enable them too much. sometimes its hard to put the brakes on empathy because it looks really mean and doesn't always feel so good to have to do it. i think there are lots of people who could use an acceptance intervention. they could use honestly hearing not only what it does to them but to the other people around them. it would bring it to them in away that i think would finally really make sense to their heart. everyone seems to think they are in it by themselves but they aren't. they bring their friends, SOs and children right along with them. 

if we don't try to stop it or make people think even in some small way people can get awfully comfortable with constantly emotionally abusing themselves with body dysmorphia etc... and using the rest of society and all of their other problems as a reason why they continue to abuse themselves. everything they say is perfectly understandable until you realize that it only ends up with great people basically mistreating themselves in ways they don't deserve.


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## superodalisque (Dec 2, 2012)

bbw.fairy.girl said:


> Playing devil's advocate here, the "easier said than done" aspect from my perspective and experiences with those who don't have, or haven't had, a good, healthy support network be it family, spiritual/religious, therapeutic or community life.
> 
> Unfortunately at times shame is almost forced upon a person. Take a child in elementary/middle school who is bullied for their size. Physically abused, called names, etc. Or a child growing up in a familial situation where they are abused in any way about how they look.
> 
> ...



and a very good .02 cents it is. there is a whole lot of truth to that. its great to empathize and understand where people have come from and where they are trying to go. but at some point we all grow up, move away from our families, understand the difference between media and real life. we have to push ourselves or we'll stay stuck in old miserable habits because we think familiarity is easier than change. 

i hate to make this analogy but it's the only one i can think of that makes what i mean clear. the lack of self acceptance can be like like domestic abuse and drug addiction. it can be the only way of living that people have actually known in their life, just as you said. it's sad but they sometimes have to hit rock bottom to decide to change their life and put a plan into action if things are ever going to get better. 

the quest for personal approval from others can be like an addiction and abuse. it's when someone is constantly looking for something or someone else to make things alright for them in a dysfunctional way. i can forget my troubles if i have that pill or if i can figure out how to be emotionally dance around enough tonight to get through it alive. the difference is we think we can get through it by wearing spanx or pretending numbers we are afraid of don't exist or trying not to see or speak of them so we can go on pretending that we aren't feeling a shame we don't deserve to feel about the body we have.

living either way is hard, unfairly hard. but if we're ever going to get out of it we have to make the effort ourselves . if we can manage to come out on the other side it's well worth it. so just like a drug addict or abuse victim we still have to live in a world where our friends relatives and acquaintances do drugs and engage in the language of abuse as though its a normal thing. same with the lack of self acceptance. we are always surrounded by it in one form or another. 

i want to help and protect anybody who doesn't have self acceptance but i also don't want to enable them in being in denial about the size that they are. for me it's like putting a bandaid on someone when there isn't a cut or a doc giving a placebo. it's not getting to the truth. it doesn't really fix anything. sometimes its hard to put the brakes on empathy because it looks really mean and doesn't always feel so good to have to do it. 

i think there are lots of people who could use an acceptance intervention. they could use honestly hearing not only what it does to them but to the other people around them. it would bring it to them in away that i think would finally really make sense to their heart. but if we don't do it even in some small way some time or another people can get awfully comfortable with constantly emotionally abusing themselves with body dysmorphia etc... and using the rest of society and all of their other problems as a reason why they continue to abuse themselves and dodge the issue. everything they say is perfectly understandable until you realize that it only ends up with great people basically mistreating themselves in ways they don't deserve.


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## bbwfairygirl (Dec 6, 2012)

superodalisque said:


> and a very good .02 cents it is. there is a whole lot of truth to that. its great to empathize and understand where people have come from and where they are trying to go. but at some point we all grow up, move away from our families, understand the difference between media and real life. we have to push ourselves or we'll stay stuck in old miserable habits because we think familiarity is easier than change.
> 
> i hate to make this analogy but it's the only one i can think of that makes what i mean clear. the lack of self acceptance can be like like domestic abuse and drug addiction. it can be the only way of living that people have actually known in their life, just as you said. it's sad but they sometimes have to hit rock bottom to decide to change their life and put a plan into action if things are ever going to get better.
> 
> ...



I like sharin' my .02 cents...lol

Yes, it is wholly up to us, as an individual, whether or not we make the choice to accept ourselves. And it's exactly that...a choice. If need be, hopefully important people in our lives will help direct us in finding what our choices are as well if we haven't had exposure to better ways (for lack of a better term) of living/being.

Often, the lack of self acceptance and self esteem can be causal in situations of drug abuse, etc. so the association isn't misplaced. 

The realm of victim-hood. What a vicious cycle that can be. I have a couple of acquaintances plus family members that live, breath and eat that mentality. Honestly I have to keep my distance at times as the negativity and weight of their dysfunction can leave me feeling so tired and down. Pissed too sometimes because it saddens me that they don't want to make change and just spew the same old crap about how miserable they are over and over and over. Even though I fully well know I cannot effect change for them.

But I do support friends and family as I can with regard to them learning to accept themselves (or other lifestyle changes). If I see they honestly have an interest in doing so or I am working to waylay what might come to pass, such as what my kiddo might encounter as she grows up (if there is reason to that is). And always trying to offer a safe environment for any of them if they need or want it. 

Sometimes I think an intervention with the proverbial frying pan upside the head, myself included might be in order. Although in general I am usually much nicer about it. I do try to be as honest as I can when people start heading down the victim trail about how it makes me feel, how it I see it affecting them (if asked). Trying to get them to look at it from another perspective if possible. And, learning when to just let it go as well...


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## Nessie0812 (Dec 28, 2012)

I've very rarely felt any shame at my "numbers." In part this is because I just didn't weight myself for 5 years. And as for my sizes... No one ever bought me clothing without me being there and trying it on first. I was lucky that my grandmother (who's a size 6...) never pressured me for my numbers; she'd pick up anything from anywhere and ask me what I though of the style or fabric, then subtle follow me to where I was looking to get a better idea as to where I was in sizes. 
The only time I ever felt weird, was shopping with my best friend from high school. She was a size 0. No joke. Sadly, she had a very warped idea about body image... to her mind I was only a large. Maybe an xl. Shopping with her hurt, but more because she couldn't love her own body and was clearly ashamed over her own numbers.


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