# FA peerdom as a part of the FA experience



## James (Apr 7, 2009)

This was a piece I wrote for the launch issue of BGP (Big Girls Paradise) magazine in the UK, prior to coming out to live in the US... In it, I talk about several of my FA experiences and my thoughts on the benefits that can be derived as FAs from actually getting to know other FAs....

In fact, one of the main reasons cited by those who supported the need for an FA forum was that there is a tendency in real life for FAs to not have many (or any) FA friends. I'd be interested to hear if this is as generally true as is often suggested..? What do people think the social effect of this absence of peerdom has had/could have? Finally, if it is a problem, what could/should be done about it? 




> *“So you like big women..?”*
> 
> Why does that idea seem like an alien concept to people? You can almost see the question on their lips before they've even asked it,
> 
> ...


----------



## marlowegarp (Apr 7, 2009)

I think you're right in that most FAs (at least guys) have few FA friends. It's funny because at first I would say that physical preferences just don't dictate who we're friends with. It's mostly the obvious stuff: geography, common interests, similar beliefs. But then look at how most groups actually break down. People do tend to have mostly friends who are of the same economic level, general education and sexual orientation as themselves. Obviously there are tons of exceptions, but by and large I've found this to be true. 

The difference with the FA thing is, I think, that: 

1. It is in the minority.
2. It's never really been quantified, so we don't know how much in the minority. 
3. Guys of our generation tend to forswear named groups as it is. Whereas in the 50's, for example, tons of American men were in the Elks or Masons or all the weird groups that popped up after WWII, now we tend to form smaller groups that are based around aesthetic preferences, rather than a code of beliefs. Some of this is just a case of pageantry, which I think has a lot to do with the advent of the fashion-crazy Hipster. Woah. Tangent.

Anyway, there is an interesting book on the topic called Bowling Alone. You should check it out.


----------



## ZosofanCMR (Apr 8, 2009)

I think the root of the problem lies in the fact that in today's society you aren't defined as much as by who you are, but who you listen to, what you read, what you watch on tv, and yes, even who you find desirable. 

Just think back to your days in high school, it has always been more important who you are friends with rather than what defines you as a person and what makes you unique.

I don't think many FA's are friends with each other due to the mere fact that there is no FA middle class as it were, there isn't in general a casual FA. Within the FA community you usually find those who are out, loud and proud, or on the converse, one's that are still trying to reconcile their desires with the pressure from friends, family, and society to conform to the "status quo". Of course you there is a gray area, where you have individuals drifting from one end of the spectrum to the other, but there is no mass in the middle, and the middle is where typically a majority of the minority meet.

That is just my take on it, I think you both bring up very very good points

:bow:


----------



## Durin (Apr 8, 2009)

The fact that FA's know that they are different from their peers at a fairly young age. I think you either have a quirky enough personality to roll with things or you really have a struggle.

I don't think it helps that most of the thinking takes place in an isolated manner.


----------



## The Fat Man (Apr 9, 2009)

I have zero 'FA' friends.

When this whole world was opened to me thanks to me getting my own computer and internet connection in my bedroom in junior high, I figured in my immediate area I was one of a kind. "Who else could possibly think and feel like I do?" it's just the natural gut reaction of a young adolescent boy realizing these alien feelings boiling up in his nether regions. You're so fixated on seeing it and reading it then hiding the shit out of it, you don't think to look around for like minded people.

Even today, I don't really get to just talk about this subject outside of this forum. I talk to my wife some about it, but we've discussed it at such length its become one of those lovingly unspoken "I know" subjects. I'd kill to have some 'FA' buddies.

*shrug*

That's life.


----------



## James (Apr 9, 2009)

I know exactly what you mean... and I think that FA-ness can tend breed a bit of a lone-ranger mentality as coping method for being the odd one out... Thats not for everyone. Personally I think it makes a huge psychological difference to have FA friends and I'd recommend it to pretty much anyone to try and make those friendships happen... 

easier said than done of course... perhaps this board may help?


----------



## rollhandler (Apr 9, 2009)

The Fat Man said:


> I have zero 'FA' friends.
> 
> When this whole world was opened to me thanks to me getting my own computer and internet connection in my bedroom in junior high, I figured in my immediate area I was one of a kind. "Who else could possibly think and feel like I do?" it's just the natural gut reaction of a young adolescent boy realizing these alien feelings boiling up in his nether regions. You're so fixated on seeing it and reading it then hiding the shit out of it, you don't think to look around for like minded people.
> 
> ...




No murder needed, just go to yahoomessenger or email me at [email protected] or Rollhandler2002 on the messenger. I've been inviting people to do just that for about 10 yrs and as of this date have only ever gotten one taker that has lasted more than a single conversation or email. I agree fully with you on the fact that i would also go to great lengths to have FA buds to chat with and just vent to from time to time and look foreward to the same in return.
Rollhandler


----------



## JoeFA (Apr 11, 2009)

I find it annoying, to say the least, that i have no FA friends to speak of.

With all my other interests and preferences, at least nearly all of them, i have a few friends with which to talk about or share interest in, but in terms of being an FA and talking about it i have no parity with it in my social life, apart from Dims, something i can't spend enough time on!

Anyone else find that, apart from Dims, its hard/impossible to find someone who shares your FA views?


----------



## Dism4l (Apr 12, 2009)

Same here, no FA friends to speak of. I do have the suspicion that one of my friends is one, though. His girlfriend has fattened up considerably since they got together.

Perhaps we have more FA friends than we think? I know that at my age (18) there are still plenty that are in the closet about their preference. I remember reading a post (in the general forum?) about a technique for BBWs to scope out FAs, and maybe with a little tweaking it might work for an FA to spot individuals of his own kind. In the end that could probably create some stronger friendships.


----------



## EtobicokeFA (Apr 13, 2009)

If anyone looking for FAs to chat with, you can send me a PM as well.


----------



## rollhandler (Apr 13, 2009)

EtobicokeFA said:


> If anyone looking for FAs to chat with, you can send me a PM as well.



Um.....what messenger and what nic do we send this PM to?
Rollhandler


----------



## EtobicokeFA (Apr 13, 2009)

rollhandler said:


> Um.....what messenger and what nic do we send this PM to?
> Rollhandler



Yahoo at tom_williams_2000_ca. Sorry about that.


----------



## mediaboy (Apr 14, 2009)

people I know who are FA's: a couple dozen

people I know who are FA's that I would call my friends: zero


----------



## rollhandler (Apr 14, 2009)

mediaboy said:


> people I know who are FA's: a couple dozen
> 
> people I know who are FA's that I would call my friends: zero



By choice or another reason?
Rollhandler


----------



## Durin (Apr 14, 2009)

The question I always have is after the first 10 minutes what would we talk about. You normally have more in common with folks that have the same hobby ect. ect. 

Question for those with FA friends, has it been a useful experience?

I think the lack of FA peers probably plays more of a role in FA exixtance.


----------



## katherine22 (Apr 14, 2009)

There is a fat admirer middleclass. Their wives and girlfriends tend to shop at Lane Bryant or Torrid. Eventually BBW will be the mainstream when one considers that the average dress size in America is a plus size.



ZosofanCMR said:


> I think the root of the problem lies in the fact that in today's society you aren't defined as much as by who you are, but who you listen to, what you read, what you watch on tv, and yes, even who you find desirable.
> 
> Just think back to your days in high school, it has always been more important who you are friends with rather than what defines you as a person and what makes you unique.
> 
> ...


----------



## MisterGuy (Apr 14, 2009)

It's funny, I'm so used to being the only basically "out" FA that I know, that it doesn't even occur to me what it would be like to go out with a couple of FA dudes. I'm sure it would be a blast, but it's hard to imagine. There is a total lone-wolf mentality that comes with the territory.

One funny anecdote--a friend of mine is dating a woman ~ 200 lbs. They've been together for years and she was the same size when they met. One night, a few of the boys were out and I tried to engage him in "aren't fat chicks great/sexy/etc." talk. He totally would not go for it, wouldn't even admit she was fat when I was talking about how she and my GF at the time were fat girls. I realized I was making him uncomfortable and backed off, but it kind of blew my mind, like, "do you not realize your GF's fat? Or do you not like it, and if so, why did you expressly go for a fat girl?" 

Anyway, that was my one foray into "trying to buddy up, FA-stizzie."


----------



## rollhandler (Apr 14, 2009)

Durin said:


> The question I always have is after the first 10 minutes what would we talk about. You normally have more in common with folks that have the same hobby ect. ect.
> 
> Question for those with FA friends, has it been a useful experience?
> 
> I think the lack of FA peers probably plays more of a role in FA exixtance.



The best thing about having real FA friends would be to be able to discuss the date you had and the woman you took out without hearing all the jeers, and discussion about how gross, or being told how mentally wrong I am in the head, or told to stop halfway through even though I havent mentioned anything about the womans size or where we went, or what we ate, but simply because they know my preference is fat women and _they_ got a mental picture. The part that kills me about that is that they dont see any problem describing the same things, to me, about their thin dates. 

Being able to discuss dates and dating issues with FAs means getting good useful information about taking care of size issues; networking the issues amongst others that understand and share them with their mates and partners. Being able to ask what places have extra wide seating or letting your bud know that if he takes her THERE she may have trouble getting around 'cause they overcrowd the tables...etc. 

Or how to reinforce an item of furniture because you are broke and your woman is in danger of breaking that 10 yr old piece of crap that needs replacing. An Fa will understand that you want to fix the chair not simply because your woman is fat, but because an FA understands that she will probably hurt herself if she uses the item and it breaks. An Fa understands these things as well as what brand names of (Fill in item of furniture here) hold up well over time with big women etc; at what cost, and where do I get one? 

Not to mention with guys bragging rights are an ego builder, but it's bitter pill when bragging about your date is met with the disapproval of all in earshot.

YEAH I can see benefits galore, these are just a couple of examples. The biggest one is being able to be openly proud, with your buds of the woman you adore in ways they can appreciate and reciprocate.
Rollhandler


----------



## rollhandler (Apr 14, 2009)

MisterGuy said:


> It's funny, I'm so used to being the only basically "out" FA that I know, that it doesn't even occur to me what it would be like to go out with a couple of FA dudes. I'm sure it would be a blast, but it's hard to imagine. There is a total lone-wolf mentality that comes with the territory.
> 
> One funny anecdote--a friend of mine is dating a woman ~ 200 lbs. They've been together for years and she was the same size when they met. One night, a few of the boys were out and I tried to engage him in "aren't fat chicks great/sexy/etc." talk. He totally would not go for it, wouldn't even admit she was fat when I was talking about how she and my GF at the time were fat girls. I realized I was making him uncomfortable and backed off, but it kind of blew my mind, like, "do you not realize your GF's fat? Or do you not like it, and if so, why did you expressly go for a fat girl?"
> 
> Anyway, that was my one foray into "trying to buddy up, FA-stizzie."



Every so often I try to hang out with the guys at work but since I am considered strange I usually don't get them. No worries I still try anyway.

Once in an effort to get an invite out with a bud I work with, I casually mentioned during a conversation about how girls mingle, that "I" would be the perfect wingman for him since a) there would be no competition for dates and b) Whilst he was chatting up the thin hottie he had his eye on, "I" could be distracting and chatting up her fat girlfriend. He thought about it a minute and said "Ya know, that does make sense in a way." with a strange grin on his face, but offered NO invite.
*sigh*
Rollhandler


----------



## Victim (Apr 15, 2009)

I have been part of science fiction/fantasy fandom since I was in HS, and FAism and out-and-proud BBW/BHM are considered normal (in fact, pretty tame actually) and I've had no shortage of FA friends. 

Since FAism and BBW/BHM are normal, people there don't tend to dwell on it like they do here, and it's just nice to have that as part of the mix in a 'normal' group (as much as fandom can be considered normal...)


----------



## Broseph (Aug 14, 2019)

I'm pretty new to DIMs and have been looking through old posts, hence the response to this ol' thread. I find this one great and totally true of my experience.

I've never had any FA friends and man would I have loved it, especially as a teenager. As others have mentioned--I felt like I was the only one out there into fat girls. I think there are some FA specific issues that non-FAs have a hard time relating to, even if they are good, supportive friends who aren't disgusted by what I like. For me, it would have been great to have had an FA uncle or friend, etc., who was already out and could give tips or just lend an ear.


----------



## landshark (Aug 16, 2019)

This is an interesting thread and kudos to you @Broseph for finding it and breathing new life into it. I see it’s a good 10 years old and I’d be curious the ages and relationship statuses of the guys who posted in this thread when it was new.

The reason I wonder that is I don’t share at all the need for FA friends. I mean I have a few here with whom I correspond from time to time, but I do not have any close personal friends who are FAs and I hadn’t thought about it at all until reading the early posts in this thread.

Now maybe that’s my demographic data: I’m 39 and have been married a while now. And the friends I have a re largely a result of my wife’s friendships. When I say say friends, I mean people I willingly choose to be around in my off time. I get along well with colleagues and sometimes we hang out, but it’s not quite the same as the friendship I have with people I meet because of my wife.

At no point have I ever lamented not having friends who liked what I like. And thinking back, while it was awkward “coming out” as an FA, I don’t ever recall wishing for a few FA friends. I do remember worrying about what people would think, but I didn’t take it so far as to wish some of my friends were also FAs (a term I wasn’t even familiar with at the time).

Interesting topic.


----------



## Blockierer (Aug 24, 2019)

happily_married said:


> At no point have I ever lamented not having friends who liked what I like. And thinking back, while it was awkward “coming out” as an FA, I don’t ever recall wishing for a few FA friends. I do remember worrying about what people would think, but I didn’t take it so far as to wish some of my friends were also FAs (a term I wasn’t even familiar with at the time).



I agree with happily_married.
I think for men who are into fat women it's important to realise that there exist a lot men with the same preference.
That's the reason I like the term Fat Admirer. At 17 it was the first time I read this term (some NAAFA stuff in newspaper), so I could identify with it.


----------



## Shotha (Aug 24, 2019)

happily_married said:


> At no point have I ever lamented not having friends who liked what I like. And thinking back, while it was awkward “coming out” as an FA, I don’t ever recall wishing for a few FA friends. I do remember worrying about what people would think, but I didn’t take it so far as to wish some of my friends were also FAs (a term I wasn’t even familiar with at the time).



I can't say that I've ever lamented not having friends, who shared the same amorous tastes as me. However, when you start looking for a partner, you tend to meet other FA's. When I met my first other FA gay man, we instantly became friends and it was so nice to be able to say things like "I love John Candy" and get a reply like "So do I." I think it's hard to know what such camaraderie is like until you find it, but when you find it it's one of the most wonderful experiences in the world.


----------



## Emmy (Aug 26, 2019)

Broseph said:


> I'm pretty new to DIMs and have been looking through old posts, hence the response to this ol' thread. I find this one great and totally true of my experience.
> 
> I've never had any FA friends and man would I have loved it, especially as a teenager. As others have mentioned--I felt like I was the only one out there into fat girls. I think there are some FA specific issues that non-FAs have a hard time relating to, even if they are good, supportive friends who aren't disgusted by what I like. For me, it would have been great to have had an FA uncle or friend, etc., who was already out and could give tips or just lend an ear.


i have really never thought about this.. being on the chunky girl side of it! Howeverrr.. its a really good point you bring up! I cant imagine how out of place or different you guys must feel for liking someone ..outside the sports illustrated box. AND the teasing ><...... Once upon a time  I was dating this kid [waiting for him outside his house] .. he got out of his friends car and shared with me "my friends want to know why im into chubby white girls..but i think they must of seen you from the side" no no, theres no perception issue here..im chunky! It would of been nice for him to just admit that he does like that about me! Then i think about the teasing though.. bleh


----------



## Shotha (Aug 26, 2019)

James said:


> What do people think the social effect of this absence of peerdom has had/could have? Finally, if it is a problem, what could/should be done about it?



James, I just read your article again and have more thoughts about it. This is a topic that I often think about.

Lack of FA peers has quite serious social effects. As we find peers, who share our taste, we start to realize that we are not freaks and we feel more confident about being open about what we desire in a partner. Finding peers almost certainly helps FA's and FFA's to lead happy, fulfilling and self-confident lives. It also means that more fat people can enjoy sex, love and romance. When we liberate ourselves from the fear of what other people think of us, we liberate others at the same time.

As a gay man, I have long been concerned about the plight of women, who find themselves in marriages with gay men, who have married a women, because they are too scared to come out of the closet. It occurs to me that that must also be slim women, who are married to FA men, who long for a beautiful fat woman. Both of these groups of women are deprived of the right to know what it truly means to be loved. Of course, there are many permutations of these unfortunate scenarios. It demonstrates how important it is to live as the people that we truly are. If we don't, we make a mess of other people's lives as well as our own.

I believe that we have an ethical responsibility to live as we truly are. I just hope that arguments such as these help to give people the confidence to live as they want to.


----------



## Tad (Aug 26, 2019)

I think anyone, but perhaps especially young men, can extrapolate too far from too little data, and proceed to believe their own bullshit. Peer groups can occasionally exasperate this, but for the most part they can help prevent some of the dumbest. Basically peers help call us on our BS, offer slightly different vantage points, provide some perspective that we haven't gained yet, etc.

Basically I think having an FA Peterson be accessible is apt to make life better for fat people, as well as saving FA some lost pride and dignity.


----------



## Shotha (Aug 26, 2019)

Formal peer groups provide some extra advantages. For example, a formal FA group would be able to organize events for themselves and fat people. But if you're going to go to the trouble of organizing a group for FA's, you may as well organize one for FA's and fat people. In the 1990's I organized such a group call the Cubs and Chasers Club of New Zealand (usually abbreviated to CCC). It was for fat gay men and their admirers. It was based on American models but adapted for New Zealand conditions. There are plenty of online groups like this for gay men, which work very well. These days it would be much easier to set up a local group for straight FA's and fat people, because all of the communication could be done through a Facebook group. And that is a possibility, which is well worth exploring.


----------



## Broseph (Aug 28, 2019)

Emmy said:


> i have really never thought about this.. being on the chunky girl side of it! Howeverrr.. its a really good point you bring up! I cant imagine how out of place or different you guys must feel for liking someone ..outside the sports illustrated box. AND the teasing ><...... Once upon a time  I was dating this kid [waiting for him outside his house] .. he got out of his friends car and shared with me "my friends want to know why im into chubby white girls..but i think they must of seen you from the side" no no, theres no perception issue here..im chunky! It would of been nice for him to just admit that he does like that about me! Then i think about the teasing though.. bleh




Thanks for your note. It's funny--I always thought society was so shitty toward big girls (and guys, of course) that I felt like a dick for being embarrassed about my FAness--as if my own insecurity was somehow not big enough to warrant my attention or discussion. Another reason FA peerdom is a great idea!


----------



## Shotha (Aug 29, 2019)

One of the arguments that I've often used, when people make negative comments about my FA-ness, is that fat people are human beings with the same needs and feelings as everyone else. Those needs include sex, love and romance.


----------



## DragonFly (Aug 30, 2019)

My sweet man was a FA to the bone, he had one friend that would come into town and they would have a big deli lunch and go big lady watching at the train station. They compared notes on living with a SSBBW and he really liked the camaraderie. 

The only other time that he interacted with other FAs was when the big women attended events and we all drug our spouses along. I know he had some laughs and there were lots of eye rolls about SSBBWs wanting to be cool, taking up the whole bed and other things only they could experience. 

I would seriously suggest that the FA people that are talking about needing a support structure, to take it upon yourself to make it happen. You don’t have to be best buds but the married old-timers could really offer some help. I wish my guy was still around to share his adventures and misadventure with getting comfortable living with me! Would certainly help others.


----------



## Shotha (Aug 30, 2019)

DragonFly said:


> I would seriously suggest that the FA people that are talking about needing a support structure, to take it upon yourself to make it happen.



I totally agree. My best friend and I used to pore over all the listings of Chubs and Chasers Clubs and Girth and Mirth Clubs, wishing that we could have one. We finally realize that we had to do it. So, we organized an inaugural meeting and it was a wonderful experience for all of us. It doesn't take much effort, especially these days.


----------



## landshark (Aug 30, 2019)

Shotha said:


> I totally agree. My best friend and I used to pore over all the listings of Chubs and Chasers Clubs and Girth and Mirth Clubs, wishing that we could have one. We finally realize that we had to do it. So, we organized an inaugural meeting and it was a wonderful experience for all of us. It doesn't take much effort, especially these days.



So true. I wonder how we ever organized anything before social media.


----------



## Shotha (Aug 31, 2019)

happily_married said:


> So true. I wonder how we ever organized anything before social media.



We had to print out newsletters and envelopes, do envelop stuffing, put stamps on the envelops and take them all down to the post office.


----------



## LifelongFA (Sep 12, 2019)

Shotha said:


> We had to print out newsletters and envelopes, do envelop stuffing, put stamps on the envelops and take them all down to the post office.



Everything in the pre-internet days was word of mouth, newsletters, snail-mail, newspapers, magazines.....gosh, even writing this makes me feel old, but the reality is we couldn't just google it the way one can today. It was a journey of sorts to wade through the occasional newspaper article that made references to the BBW world that eventually lead me over the course of 2-3 years to Dimensions Magazine print edition around 1990. The magazine, of course, was a game changer for me and led me into the entire "scene" of bashes, conventions, etc. What an exciting time it was! While I know in today's world it only takes a swipe to meet singles, I think everyone should have had the opportunity to go to a party with 200-300 large folks and their admirers like I was able to back in the day. Good times and worth every hour of searching to find the treasure!


----------



## Shotha (Sep 13, 2019)

LifelongFA said:


> While I know in today's world it only takes a swipe to meet singles, I think everyone should have had the opportunity to go to a party with 200-300 large folks and their admirers like I was able to back in the day. Good times and worth every hour of searching to find the treasure!



It's easy to just look at the bad side of old times, like thinking you're the only, all of the hard work to get anything done, the difficulty in finding partners and like-minded friends. However, there was a great deal to be enjoyed in the older days, too. We used to meet real people rather than virtual people. Potentially good friends can be dismissed these days with a single keystroke, whereas in the pre-Internet era we met people face to face and made more friends. It's hard to find the camaraderie that we had in the old days. We used to stand by each other more than we do today. Our little chubs and chasers gatherings in Auckland NZ could only must 2 dozen people at the most but we still enjoyed a tremendous sense of belonging. It's that feeling of community, belonging and togetherness, which FA peerdom offers.


----------



## luckyfa (Aug 16, 2021)

There was a time when the internet was still in its infancy and I felt like being the only one who loves fat women. But I’ve never felt freakish or lonely with this preference. That has changed, thanks to the internet. This cuts both ways: Although I realised that I am not the only one, I became self-conscious about my preference at first and I thought that something was wrong with me (fetishism!). However, in IRL, I still feel like I am the only one, especially as our contrast is huge (my wife’s almost double my BMI). My wife‘s the fattest person I know personally. She weighs at least twice as much as most of her girllfriends.

Of course, I know quite a few people who have a bigger spouse but then, I don‘t know whether they‘re happy with their partner or not. Some women I know who have bigger husbands explicity don‘t like it, the men with bigger wives seem to be more accomodating. Still, those men are unlikely to label themselves as fat admirers. But I can‘t know.

Maybe it‘s also a definition or labeling problem. When did the term „fat admirer“ arise? Is it a brain child of the internet or was it coined prior to the advent of the internet? It was only after about 15 years into our relationship that I discovered the term „fat admirer“, thanks to the internet. I obviously was one before, but I didn‘t know that there was a term for it. Ignorance and innocence were bliss.

This gets me to the core of my long-winded musings: Could it be that the label creates more problems than it solves and that the desire to belong to a certain group based on a label is futile? I mean, what would I talk about with a hypothetical real-life FA friend? About our spouses‘ measurements? About the amounts of food they can eat? About our desires, hidden or obvious?


----------



## Tad (Aug 16, 2021)

luckyfa said:


> Maybe it‘s also a definition or labeling problem. When did the term „fat admirer“ arise? Is it a brain child of the internet or was it coined prior to the advent of the internet? It was only after about 15 years into our relationship that I discovered the term „fat admirer“, thanks to the internet. I obviously was one before, but I didn‘t know that there was a term for it. Ignorance and innocence were bliss.
> 
> This gets me to the core of my long-winded musings: Could it be that the label creates more problems than it solves and that the desire to belong to a certain group based on a label is futile? I mean, what would I talk about with a hypothetical real-life FA friend? About our spouses‘ measurements? About the amounts of food they can eat? About our desires, hidden or obvious?



As to when did the term FA start, I don't know for sure but it was well before the world-wide-web was a thing; I met it in a back issue of men's magazine called BUF (focused on larger women) in, iirc, 1989. And I remember reading that Dimensions Magazine, the magazine that left us these forums, evolved out of the newsletter of the 'Fat Admirer's Special Interest Group' (FASIG) of the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance (NAAFA), and Dimensions Magazine was already adverting in that back-issue of BUF that I found, so I'm not quite sure how far back the NAAFA FASIG went, and in turn "FA" must have been an existing term without at least NAAFA circles before a group used it in their name. So I don't know exactly when it started being used, but I suspect at the latest the very early 80s.

Your last paragraph is a great point. From what I understand the FASIG didn't take off very well within NAAFA, and in all the long years of the Dimensions Forums (which date back to about '97) I can't recall any real FA grouping or fraternalism happening. Some of that could be the shame that a lot of FA learned about their preferences, but I think that more that "We are both attracted to fat people" just isn't enough in common to cement friendship or to found a social group, unless other common interests also are found.


----------



## Shotha (Aug 16, 2021)

luckyfa said:


> This gets me to the core of my long-winded musings: Could it be that the label creates more problems than it solves and that the desire to belong to a certain group based on a label is futile? I mean, what would I talk about with a hypothetical real-life FA friend? About our spouses‘ measurements? About the amounts of food they can eat? About our desires, hidden or obvious?



I've said things about the advantages of having FA friends and acquaintances several times in this thread. I'm gay and so my experience has mainly been with gay groups catering to fat gay men and their admirers.

In the early 1990's I started a group called the Chubs and Chasers Club of New Zealand or CCC for short. It was based largely upon American models. I also became involved in various local bears' groups. People get many things out of such groups. The first thing is meeting their peers, so that suddenly they are no longer alone. We didn't talk about our partners' measurements or how much they can eat. We did talk about our desires and aspirations. We talked about our life stories. We talked about why we liked fat men. We talked about the film stars and other celebrities that we thought were good looking. It also gave people a place to start socializing and meeting friends and potential partners. We theorized about all of these things. But we didn't turn the men that we admired and loved as objects.

These days it's fashionable to dislike labels. What people really dislike is inappropriate labels. I've been happy to label myself as a chubby-chaser, chaser of fat admirer, because it has enabled me to engage with others in creating a social milieu for fat people and their admirers, and in trying to create a space for us in the wider world. If other people choose to think of themselves in other terms, we shouldn't pick fault with that. One thing that I've found is that by being honest about who I am, it stops people from using my identity to cause distress.


----------



## mathfa (Aug 16, 2021)

I do greatly wish that I could have a friend who is an FA. I don't have a ton of friends though, and in general have trouble making friends with other men, I find women easier to talk to I guess. So my sample size is not amazing. I've only ever known one FA in real life (although many others were likely so and just didn't talk about it), she had a fling with a friend of mine, and flirted with many of the other guys in the group, all of whom were big people. I found out when my friend said something about her being a flirt, to which I said that she had (thankfully) never shown interest in me, to which he replied I was not fat enough 

Discovering Dims five or so years ago was very helpful though. Seems like a lot of the FA material out there is very hardcore, and there's even a lot of ethically unsound stuff like the "candids" section of Curvage. *shudders*. Finding this community of regular, kind people who like big people was eye opening.


----------



## Shotha (Aug 17, 2021)

mathfa said:


> I do greatly wish that I could have a friend who is an FA. I don't have a ton of friends though, and in general have trouble making friends with other men, I find women easier to talk to I guess. So my sample size is not amazing. I've only ever known one FA in real life (although many others were likely so and just didn't talk about it), she had a fling with a friend of mine, and flirted with many of the other guys in the group, all of whom were big people. I found out when my friend said something about her being a flirt, to which I said that she had (thankfully) never shown interest in me, to which he replied I was not fat enough
> 
> Discovering Dims five or so years ago was very helpful though. Seems like a lot of the FA material out there is very hardcore, and there's even a lot of ethically unsound stuff like the "candids" section of Curvage. *shudders*. Finding this community of regular, kind people who like big people was eye opening.



You could try starting your own local group off. You could set up a Facebook group to do the communicating. You then just need somewhere to socialize. As it's your initiative, you choose the name for it and you set the tone for it.


----------



## luckyfa (Aug 17, 2021)

Tad said:


> As to when did the term FA start, I don't know for sure but it was well before the world-wide-web was a thing



Thank you for your research, this was very interesting. I think, Europe lagged behind quite a bit although print magazines definitely existed. But they were more about porn (mainly naked fat women) rather than cultivating a common interest.



Tad said:


> Some of that could be the shame that a lot of FA learned about their preferences, but I think that more that "We are both attracted to fat people" just isn't enough in common to cement friendship or to found a social group, unless other common interests also are found.



Yeah, maybe it‘s both. In addition to that, maybe discrimination against fat people and their admirers isn‘t that big a problem so there‘s no need to form associations of like-minded people or the suffering due to discrimination isn‘t great enough to overcome said shame and the lack of other common interests. But maybe I‘m saying this from my (our) personal experience because we hardly ever met discrimination.


----------



## Shotha (Aug 17, 2021)

Tad said:


> Some of that could be the shame that a lot of FA learned about their preferences, but I think that more that "We are both attracted to fat people" just isn't enough in common to cement friendship or to found a social group, unless other common interests also are found.



That's an interesting point. My first FA friend actually shared a lot of other interests with me, such as languages, serious music and the arts. Although we had got together, because of our shared preference for fat men, it was several months, before we actually talked about that.

There have been many social groups for fat gay men and their admirers. I wonder if the difference in sexual orientation accounts for differences in the way FA's socialize. As homosexuality had for a long time to be clandestine, we had to use any methods we could think of to increase the chances of find an appropriate partner. The handkerchief code was part of this. An apricot coloured handkerchief hanging out of a rear jeans pocket indicated that you were interested in fat guys.


----------



## luckyfa (Aug 17, 2021)

Shotha said:


> I'm gay and so my experience has mainly been with gay groups catering to fat gay men and their admirers.



Could it be that, historically, gay people imperatively had to form associations to fight against true, ie. legal discrimination and AIDS? If so, it would be a small step to form gay groups based on special interests such as fat admiring. Honestly, I don‘t know because I am not gay but I am just trying to connect the dots in my mind. A recent podcast I listened to with Andrew Sullivan is one of those dots. He, among other things, talked about the history of the gay rights movement and its absolute necessity for the survival of the gay community. He also talked about the influence of the AIDS pandemic. I believe heterosexuals have a lot to learn from the gay community and the history of the gay rights movement.



Shotha said:


> These days it's fashionable to dislike labels. What people really dislike is inappropriate labels.



That‘s an important disctinction. I don‘t dislike labels as such but certainly inapproriate ones. Also, I wear dozens of hats (=labels) and I can‘t tell which of these are most important to my identity.



Shotha said:


> If other people choose to think of themselves in other terms, we shouldn't pick fault with that



That‘s right. I hope I didn‘t do that.


----------



## luckyfa (Aug 17, 2021)

Shotha said:


> I wonder if the difference in sexual orientation accounts for differences in the way FA's socialize



I was wondering about the same thing…I didn‘t realise that you posted this while I was still writing my reply.


----------



## Shotha (Aug 17, 2021)

luckyfa said:


> Could it be that, historically, gay people imperatively had to form associations to fight against true, ie. legal discrimination and AIDS? If so, it would be a small step to form gay groups based on special interests such as fat admiring. Honestly, I don‘t know because I am not gay but I am just trying to connect the dots in my mind. A recent podcast I listened to with Andrew Sullivan is one of those dots. He, among other things, talked about the history of the gay rights movement and its absolute necessity for the survival of the gay community. He also talked about the influence of the AIDS pandemic. I believe heterosexuals have a lot to learn from the gay community and the history of the gay rights movement.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The gay community existed underground for many hundreds of years. The gay rights movement was not, in my opinion, necessary for the survival of the gay community. It made the rest of the world aware of our existence and it started the fight for equality. The arrival of AIDS was a terrible blow to our community but it also made us fight harder for equality. Because we couldn't chat up a guy in the office or at the bus stop, our search for a partner was crammed into a couple of hours on a Saturday night. That, I think, is what made us devise ways of making the most of that time, including starting special interest groups. I think that we can learn a lot from all groups, who are different from ourselves.

Language itself is just a huge collection of labels. When we introduce ourselves to new acquaintances, we apply a heap of labels to ourselves. One label that I openly take on is "fat", because it stops other people from using it to cause injury.

I said, "If other people choose to think of themselves in other terms, we shouldn't pick fault with that," only to make it clear that I don't pick fault with the way that other people think of themselves.


----------

