# Tragic Anorexia Death



## Observer (Nov 16, 2006)

A Brazilian fashion model with anorexia has died. She weighed only 88 pounds. Click here for the full story


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## Upstate New York Foodee (Nov 16, 2006)

Poor girl. I feel awfully bad for her Mother and those she left behind. Nobody should die that young


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## Jack Skellington (Nov 17, 2006)

Hopefully this will be a wake up call for the fashion industry.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Nov 17, 2006)

Before we all go insane on the fashion industry... Most models are not anorectic. (Anorexic means you just lost your appetite, BTW, while being anorectic refers to having anorexia nervosa.) She wasn't getting work at that weight. 

This isn't a socio-cultural disorder about looking pretty. And now I'm about to say some profoundly horrible things. Don't read them if you don't like the truth.

...


...


...


Still here? 


People who have anorexia nervosa do not care about looking pretty. *Everytime someone comments I'm pretty, I feel like I've failed.* I am disturbing looking once I take off my clothes, and if it weren't for being recovered, I'd gladly be on my way to appearing horrifying. Ask anyone who actually has a diagnosis of anorexia nervosa. I dare you.

Anorectics don't look like pretty models. I don't look like a pretty model. How many models do you see in Vogue with hipbones, ribs, wrists, and other stuff sticking out?







This is Gisele. You can barely see a rib. She wears a dress size four. She could afford to gain some weight, but she doesn't look emaciated.

I'm NOT emaciated, but I wear children's size clothing because women's no longer fits me. That's not attractive. There's nothing glamorous about that. It's about self-punishment and control. 

Gisele's not inspiring this:






That's my ribs a few weeks ago. You sure won't see that being admired. 

And my ribs a week ago:






Are you thinking this is gross? Do you get it yet? Do you understand this isn't some decision I made? This isn't about being weak-minded anymore than depression is.

Oh, this is what my hips look like:






Someone pointed out they poked through my jeans the other day. It wasn't out of envy.

And guess what? Because I'm starving, my hair's falling out and I don't get my period anymore, and I have SEVERE insomnia. Am I pretty yet? WEE!!! This isn't a direct attack at you, Observer, rather at the widespread ignorance the media loves to deliver. That this beautiful woman died is a travesty, but it has nothing to do with her being a model. 

If we perpetuate the idea that it's just because the fashion industry is thin, then eating disordered people will NEVER get better. Eating disordered people don't care about how others look. 

I do not lose weight to look better. I lose weight to look uglier.

I do not lose weight to make people want to be around me. I use it to get away from people.

I do not lose weight to fit into more attractive clothes. I dress worse the thinner I get.

I do not lose weight to attract potential sexual partners. I lose weight to deter them.

I do not lose weight to be happy. I lose weight to punish myself and release anxiety.

While I generally object to people publically bearing their pain for the world to see, I hope at least one person gets me. Don't PM me saying you feel sorry for me. Don't PM me saying I'm a bitch. I am sick and tired of media sensationalism that eating disorders occur because weak-minded women want to measure up to someone else's standards of pretty. IT'S INCORRECT. ASK ANYONE WITH AN ACTUAL EATING DISORDER. EDUCATE YOURSELVES.

ETA: This is a disease, and it hurts. It's NOT an agenda, fat-hating, or anything else.


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## LoveBHMS (Nov 17, 2006)

For speaking the truth.

First off, without getting too technical, and without knowing her situation, my guess is that she really died from bulimia. 88 pounds is severely underweight at 5"7, but it's not a likely weight where you'd have heart or kidney failure. Bulimia can and does cause heart problems [buried deep in the Terri Schiavo trainwreck was the fact that she actually got brain damaged after collapsing from it.]

Secondly, TSL is right. Anorexia is not the same thing as losing weight, it is not the same thing as being thin. It's possible that models overrestrict their food or overexercise to stay skinny, but it doesn't make them anorexic. Anorexia is an emotional disease, the weight loss is a symptom. Everyone that is thin does not have anorexia, and *nobody* with anorexia is behaving that way to cater to society or to get men.

I used to be anorexic. My strongest memory was of being in school and trying to remember my class schedule for the next day. I was hoping I didn't have biology b/c my biology book was in my locker which was upstairs from my final class of that day, and I knew I couldn't walk up one flight of stairs to go to my locker. Imagine starving yourself to the point where you can't walk up a flight of stairs.

Anorexia is a tragedy, not the modeling industry.


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## Ned Sonntag (Nov 17, 2006)

Owww one of my fellow cartoonists for HIGH TIMES... I've forgotten her real name for the moment... something Kennedy? It'll come back to me... her cartoonin' name was Mama Dog. Her art was SO great... she wore big baggy emo sweaters and I didn't get how skinny she was... she was the opposite of my fetish but she utterly entranced me. Winter of '85 she got pneumonia and was quickly gone... You looked very slim-yet-curvy a few months back, Ms Linguist... know that a whole crowd o' folks here love you for your wit and scholarship:bow: . Winter's coming. Try not to croak on us, please! Are those the right things to say?


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## SamanthaNY (Nov 17, 2006)

I've always wondered how those suffering from anorexia feel when they're face-to-face with someone who's very fat. Are they terrified? Do they fear that someday they'll be that big if they get out of control? (if that's true, it would really hurt to know that my mere visage could cause someone to harm themselves) Or... is it somewhat the opposite (this happens with many non-fat (heh), but shallow women who are obsessed with their size) in that they think "Wow, I feel great now, cuz I'm no where near as big as *her*"


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## LoveBHMS (Nov 17, 2006)

I suffered from both it and bulimia so I can speak from experience, although of course it's only my personal experience.

Anorexia is first of all so isolating that you barely know anyone else exists. Your world is your food and what you are or aren't going to eat and your exercising and your hiding your throwing up (if you're doing that.) It's all about you and your body, not about trying to compete with other women. In short, you hate yourself and your body, not others.

Also, the body is just a symptom. It's a symptom of an emotional disease. It's not a simple mindset of "I want to be thin." Plus, the fear of weight gain isn't even rational to the point of "I might look like that person if I overeat." And by and large it's more a FEAR of eating then a lack of wanting to.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Nov 17, 2006)

Ned Sonntag said:


> Owww one of my fellow cartoonists for HIGH TIMES... I've forgotten her real name for the moment... something Kennedy? It'll come back to me... her cartoonin' name was Mama Dog. Her art was SO great... she wore big baggy emo sweaters and I didn't get how skinny she was... she was the opposite of my fetish but she utterly entranced me. Winter of '85 she got pneumonia and was quickly gone... You looked very slim-yet-curvy a few months back, Ms Linguist... know that a whole crowd o' folks here love you for your wit and scholarship:bow: . Winter's coming. Try not to croak on us, please! Are those the right things to say?



Neddy, you are a charmer. :wubu:


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Nov 17, 2006)

SamanthaNY said:


> I've always wondered how those suffering from anorexia feel when they're face-to-face with someone who's very fat. Are they terrified? Do they fear that someday they'll be that big if they get out of control? (if that's true, it would really hurt to know that my mere visage could cause someone to harm themselves) Or... is it somewhat the opposite (this happens with many non-fat (heh), but shallow women who are obsessed with their size) in that they think "Wow, I feel great now, cuz I'm no where near as big as *her*"



Sam, I'm the most selfish bitch you'll ever meet. I seriously am only interested in MY body. 

A really fat person doesn't make a dent in my world. Being really fat just isn't in my genes. I don't think I could eat myself past 200 lbs. by force. I don't even think fat people are unattractive. I find a lot of them attractive, and I've dated a couple. 

It's not really even an esteem boost to see people fatter than me, because frankly, EVERYONE'S fatter than me. You: Fatter than me. Jennifer Aniston: Also fatter than me.

Here's the weird part of the disease: The more weight I lose, the fatter I feel. Actually, a lot of times I'll think to myself, "Well, X is fat, but at least she's beautiful. I'm disgusting." It sounds stupid, but I'd never criticize someone the way I criticize my own body. If I never saw another fat person, I'd keep doing what I was doing.


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## moonvine (Nov 17, 2006)

Casey,

I don't feel sorry *for* you. But I am sorry. Hope that made some sense.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Nov 17, 2006)

Everything Casey says about her body - is what I say about mine - but mine is about being fat and eating to stuff emotions. I have never seen how I feel about me so accurately described ever. And it was described by Casey in such detail that it was a slap in the face for me. 

But I am working on it. 

Casey you made me cry - for you - for me - and for every woman who has ever looked in the mirror at herself in disgust.


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## SamanthaNY (Nov 17, 2006)

Interesting insights - thank you both, TSL and LB, for your input.


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## Jack Skellington (Nov 17, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Before we all go insane on the fashion industry.



The fashion industry and the media deserves the scorn they receive. In my opinion the damage they do to women by promoting emaciated models and actress is inexcusable.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Nov 17, 2006)

Jack Skellington said:


> The fashion industry and the media deserves the scorn they receive. In my opinion the damage they do to women by promoting emaciated models and actress is inexcusable.



Did you read Love's posts? Did you read my posts? Ever read any of Laina's?


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## mossystate (Nov 17, 2006)

I think it is like so many things where people want to find a 'boogeyman' and all that does is continue to push people in real pain,living individual lives that have nothing to do with Nicole Ritchie or a runway model, even more under the proverbial rug.

I don't think there is anything wrong with people making connections between those 'popular' body types and the difficulties and pain experienced by those who try to acheive it...but...it's like me..I did not gain weight because I came to Dimensions and saw fat women.The reasons I gained weight(aside from food choices) has little to do with my physical self.

Issues of self-loathing coupled with the supposed control of the physical could mean that there might be some women who come here to Dims and in part, gain a lot of weight for similar reasons that people with anorexia lose it.We are talking 'only' about the physical, but this punishing of oneself is not limited to that. And before someone jumps on what I said..no..I am not saying fat is ugly..etc..hate that I feel I have to say that.


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## Jack Skellington (Nov 17, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Did you read Love's posts? Did you read my posts? Ever read any of Laina's?



You have your opinion and I have mine.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Nov 17, 2006)

Absolutely, Mossy. The unattainable media images create low self-esteem and crash dieting. Low self-esteem and crash dieting though, are not eating disorders. 

People gain/lose weight for a myriad of reasons. I think you can do either for a good or a bad reason, and the reasoning doesn't make either appearance ugly or beautiful. I think that's what you're saying?


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Nov 17, 2006)

Jack Skellington said:


> You have your opinion and I have mine.



I have an eating disorder. You don't.


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## Jack Skellington (Nov 17, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> I have an eating disorder. You don't.



There are other sides to this issue than yours.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Nov 17, 2006)

Jack Skellington said:


> There are other sides to this issue than yours.



Like Laina's, Love's, pretty much any member of any ED support group if you're willing to go, Jack. If you really think I'm wrong, go to an Anorexia Nervosa Anon Meeting and ask the people there.


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## mossystate (Nov 17, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Absolutely, Mossy. The unattainable media images create low self-esteem and crash dieting. Low self-esteem and crash dieting though, are not eating disorders.
> 
> People gain/lose weight for a myriad of reasons. I think you can do either for a good or a bad reason, and the reasoning doesn't make either appearance ugly or beautiful. I think that's what you're saying?



That's part of it, yes.And if a person possesses deep anxieties about themselves and the good old loathing, it has to come out...somehow.People will turn it either outward..or inward.


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## Jack Skellington (Nov 17, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Like Laina's, Love's, pretty much any member of any ED support group if you're willing to go, Jack.



And those are valid view points and sides of the problem. But that doesn't let the fashion industry off the hook in my opinion.


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## CuteyChubb (Nov 17, 2006)

*TSL, don't get mad at me.............I think you are beautiful. I love your eyes. I love reading your posts because you radiate intelligence. You can change and heal from that shit. Hugs. *


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## mossystate (Nov 17, 2006)

Jack Skellington said:


> And those are valid view points and sides of the problem. But that doesn't let the fashion industry off the hook in my opinion.



I agree that 'the fashion industry' does not help matters, any more than most porn does much good in that department(there are women now going to plastic surgeons to 'fix' labia that is not petite and perfectly pink..sick).I think that what is being said is that you can take away the fashion industry and the porn industry and people will still be answering to their brains..how they feel about themselves.The external is just that.No doubt that the FI or porn can be a recipe book.


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## GPL (Nov 17, 2006)

Thanks to The Sadeian Linguist and LoveBHMS for bringing another light to this forum. It is very interesting to see how you feel and what anorexia and anorectic is all about. Im afraid most of us really dont know what it really is, so did I. Somehow I liked reading your story and am happy to know more about it and know more about you, too, now, Sadeian. Im glad you have another look than we have 

GPL.


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## LoveBHMS (Nov 17, 2006)

The "fashion industry" may make women want to be thin, but it doesn't make them anorexic or bulimic. Again, those are emotional disorders that have symptoms but being thin does not equal being anorexic. And with bulimia you can be a variety of weights, including fairly large. Blaming People Magazine for ED's is like blaming Architecural Digest for somebody having Obsessive Compulsive Disorder or blaming Town and Country if somebody maxes out their credit cards.

None of us with ED's have thought "gosh, if only I can get my ribs to poke out just a bit more, I'd look better in that cute dress." I'm going to do what TSL did and say don't scroll down if you don't want to know the truth about ED's.



I started when I was 13 and I *still* have problems with bulimia. I'm a professional woman with a college education and my own business, and yet last week I had a relapse so severe that I actually wasted 2 hours in the middle of a work day because I had to throw up my lunch and then deal with the rapid heartbeat and out of whack blood sugar and electrolyte imbalances that come with it. I subsequently was eating and puking to the point where I passed out in my hotel room.

I have lost whole days because I've swallowed boxes of laxatives and can't leave the house. I've gone through relapses so severe that I don't have to stick my finger down my throat because my body just regurgitates food without my trying. I've found myself throwing up blood because I jammed my fingers down my throat so hard i raked up the back of my mouth. When the girls in my house in college knew what I was doing, I took to driving out on deserted roads and throwing up on the roadside. Do you think a college student is driving around deserted country roads stuffing herself and then pulling over to vomit in a ditch because of the *fashion industry?*

When I had anorexia, my hair was falling out. I used to conduct nightly bone checks to make sure each bone (rib, hip, collarbone, wrists) was sticking out sufficiently. I used to bargain with my dad over what I'd eat in a given night....he might get me up to a glass of tomato juice and an egg white, and then i'd spend twenty minutes running up and down the stairs to burn it off.

It is not the fashion industry. Trust us on this one.


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## Pearlover90000 (Nov 19, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> I have an eating disorder. You don't.



Great POST Sadie---

You make the distinction: that anorexia is an "emotional" disorder, not a physical body one-----it's not about being thin

JJ


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## Pearlover90000 (Nov 19, 2006)

This is another victoria's secret model---Alessandria, and even thinner than Giselle, but not anorexic.







Pearlover90000 said:


> Great POST Sadie---
> 
> You make the distinction: that anorexia is an "emotional" disorder, not a physical body one-----it's not about being thin
> 
> JJ


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## Observer (Nov 19, 2006)

To Jack Skellington:

TSL and friends have made a valid point. They live with a reality that I've never experienced and neither have you. In their case its a disease that has nothing to do with the economic pressures of the fashion industry - although we may wonder if in some cases those pressures help some people to become ill in this area. But you, sir, are coming across as very boorish an insensitive. I suggest yoiu reconsider your position.

To: TSL and friends

You are right. I have never walked in your moccasins. I posted a link to an article that I found tragic and didn't think through or take time t supply context. Your pictures and the commentary to me spoke for themselves and I got the point. I shall try to never again treat anorexia and bulemia as though they are consciuous choices - intellectually I knew better already. Please accept my apology.


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## Pearlover90000 (Nov 19, 2006)

I, as many of you, was very moved by Sadie's reply to the post, and I also applaud the gentleman who made the original post of this newsworthy piece, and albiet; it was very exploited by the media.

JJ






Observer said:


> To Jack Skellington:
> 
> TSL and friends have made a valid point. They live with a reality that I've never experienced and neither have you. In their case its a disease that has nothing to do with the economic pressures of the fashion industry - although we may wonder if in some cases those pressures help some people to become ill in this area. But you, sir, are coming across as very boorish an insensitive. I suggest yoiu reconsider your position.
> 
> ...


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Nov 20, 2006)

Stupid question here:

Why is this models death any more important than any other young woman who dies from an eating disorder???


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## Jack Skellington (Nov 20, 2006)

> But you, sir, are coming across as very boorish an insensitive.



You find me boorish an insensitive? And....this bothers me how?  

By now people more than likely know how I stand on women's issues. If I came off as abrupt to TSL, I apologize to her. 



> I suggest yoiu reconsider your position.



I stand by my position on this. There are more than one side to this complicated issue in my opinion. My opinion that the fashion industry has much to answer for does not invalidate their experiences.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Nov 20, 2006)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Stupid question here:
> 
> Why is this models death any more important than any other young woman who dies from an eating disorder???



I asked this on another board. About 10% people with anorexia nervosa die of complications from it. Most of these people are not models. And why does her profession have anything to do with it?

Interestingly enough, a friend of mine's mother works in the fashion industry, and had this young lady come to a casting call, and recalled her as very striking and curvy.


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## SamanthaNY (Nov 20, 2006)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Stupid question here:
> 
> Why is this models death any more important than any other young woman who dies from an eating disorder???


Did someone say it was?


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## LoveBHMS (Nov 20, 2006)

I guess coming off as boorish and insensitive should not bother you.

It's just that for some reason, you seem to enjoy talking about the fashion industry despite the presence on this board of women with ED's who have said the fashion industry doesn't make us do what we do. 

The fact that this woman was a model just meant she was higher profile or had a higher profile job, it's like saying "is it more tragic that Michael J. Fox has Parkinsons?" than if an average person has it. No, it isn't, but nobody is going to read a newspaper ariticle about Joe Blow having Parkinsons, and frankly Joe Blow going to Capitol Hill to talk about it isn't going to bring out the TV cameras.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Nov 20, 2006)

You didn't make me mad at all, Observer. I think a lot of people HOPE against hope that eating disorders which affect a huge portion of the country (1 to 2%) that there's some outside cause we can stop. In that sense, it's a little like fatness (which I do not think is a disease). If there's an outside cause, it becomes so much easier to fix it. Imagine if not being fat was simply the result of not eating McDonald's ever again. I

I'm more angry at the media who seems hellbent on perpetuating the idea that unless you have a BMI between 20 and 23, you're morally/emotionally weak.







Observer said:


> To Jack Skellington:
> 
> TSL and friends have made a valid point. They live with a reality that I've never experienced and neither have you. In their case its a disease that has nothing to do with the economic pressures of the fashion industry - although we may wonder if in some cases those pressures help some people to become ill in this area. But you, sir, are coming across as very boorish an insensitive. I suggest yoiu reconsider your position.
> 
> ...


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Nov 20, 2006)

SamanthaNY said:


> Did someone say it was?



The only thing is that in most of the articles I've heard/read, they will NOT refer to her as a woman. She was a "model," as though she wasn't a person, but just a sick ideal of a person.


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## CuteyChubb (Nov 20, 2006)

I believe the fashion/model industry made me feel like a big fat glob most of the time, but so did Hollywood. Neither one made me want to starve myself. They just helped me to feel even more unacceptable. Anorexia seems to be more of a disease like obesity is now being considered. Very complicated. I do so appreciate those of you have bared your souls to help us understand.


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## Jack Skellington (Nov 20, 2006)

LoveBHMS said:


> I guess coming off as boorish and insensitive should not bother you.



No, it really doesn't bother me if people call me boorish and insensitive.



> It's just that for some reason, you seem to enjoy talking about the fashion industry despite the presence on this board of women with ED's who have said the fashion industry doesn't make us do what we do.



I have two relatives suffering from Anorexia. One was average sized but never felt pretty enough and the other had always been heavy. Both wanted to fit into the unrealistic body image portrayed by the fashion industry. Their experiences are different from yours. 

Someone having a different opinion on this issue doesn't negate yours or anyone else's experiences. I feel this issue is very complicated and has many sides to it.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Nov 20, 2006)

I like debate and I'm not mad at you. I just know you're wrong about this.

There's nothing pretty about anorexia nervosa. Were your relatives diagnosed specifically with that?

To have a diagnosis of anorexia nervosa, you especially have to meet phsyical requirements from the DSM-IV, to include a BMI below 17.5 and have your period not occurring for three months. In the interim, it's ED-NOS. (Some doctors will make exceptions for the period thing if your BMI is low enough.)

One thing though: It's very unpopular and awkward to say you actually have an obsessive compulsive personality, feel undeserving of space, and think being hideous is a goal to reach. Why? Saying things like that are pretty good indicators you're crazy. And who wants to be crazy? It's not crazy to want to be pretty, just sometimes misguided. People who eat poorly to fit into a size six are crash dieting. It's harmful and might kill you, but it's no eating disorder. 

OTOH, even though I've been feeling better, I would be PISSED to wake up and not be able to fit into child-sized clothes. And that isn't Hollywood's ideal. 



Jack Skellington said:


> No, it really doesn't bother me if people call me boorish and insensitive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## rainyday (Nov 25, 2006)

Regarding eating disorders being emotional disorders, this is true. With bulima though there can be a physical/biochemical component as well. A very high percentage of bulimics are concurrently diagnosed with OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder), which in itself can be biochemical. In the last few years, research has also shown that people who have OCD are significantly more likely to have had strep throat as children and there's now thought to be some link, so there are physical processes at play that are still not clearly understood. I don't know if anorexia has the same kind of physical component as well.



TheSadeianLinguist said:


> I am disturbing looking once I take off my clothes, and if it weren't for being recovered, I'd gladly be on my way to appearing horrifying.


I do not believe I can ever call myself "recovered" from bulimia, even if I go the rest of my life never purging again, and I have seen the same conclusion drawn by many who treat eating disorders. I am biologically predisposed and situational emotional triggers will always have the potential to restart the spiral. The difference now is that several years of therapy gave me the tools to look at the situation pragmatically and know what I need to do to take care of myself. If I ever feel things are beginning to slip again, my ass will be back in therapy ASAP because I have no desire to retrace any of that ground.

This may seem a strange thing to say, but in your posts over the last couple months, you seem to be receiving some sustenance from being able to identify as a "true" anorexic and from showing how off-kilter things are. That makes me worry even more than the photos of your ribs or clothing size descriptions because it speaks to the rigidity and push for perfection that so characterize these disorders. I hope both you and LovesBHMS are doing whatever you need to do to take care of yourselves and keep the monkey off your backs.


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## missaf (Nov 25, 2006)

From personal experience, eating disorders really do have emotional disorder or emotional abuse backgrounds. A dear dear friend of mine dealt with a lot of childhood abuse, and discovered that the abuse ended when he got fat as a child. Psychologically, his fat is his cushion from the world. While he's fat, his emotions can be held inside, and he can be saved from harm. But that also prevents us from being closer. He can't let anyone in, and even trying sends him into a binging frenzy. There are healthier times when he's prepared to open a door to a more intimate connection between us as friends, but it's a rough road. I'm proud to be his friend, but it's a painful and long process as he's looking for a way out of himself.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Nov 25, 2006)

missaf said:


> From personal experience, eating disorders really do have emotional disorder or emotional abuse backgrounds. A dear dear friend of mine dealt with a lot of childhood abuse, and discovered that the abuse ended when he got fat as a child. Psychologically, his fat is his cushion from the world. While he's fat, his emotions can be held inside, and he can be saved from harm. But that also prevents us from being closer. He can't let anyone in, and even trying sends him into a binging frenzy. There are healthier times when he's prepared to open a door to a more intimate connection between us as friends, but it's a rough road. I'm proud to be his friend, but it's a painful and long process as he's looking for a way out of himself.



Some of them do stem from abusive backgrounds, or those backgrounds act as a catalyst. I know my background had some catalystic (is that a word?) aspects, but definitely there's a genetic predisposition towards the OCD-like behavior. My childhood was relatively shitty, but I know other people who didn't have abusive backgrounds or any sort of trauma who had eating disorders.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Nov 26, 2006)

AN does seem to be pretty closely linked to a lot of the same stuff as major depression and OCD.

I identify as a recovered person because most days I feel normal in the sense that I would guess most people feel normal. I think focusing on eating and weight is unhealthy, but normal. I call myself recovered because most days I want recovery and health more than I want irrational dreams. 

I think there are some major problems with the DSM, because I'd argue ED-NOS (eating disorder not otherwise specified) is nothing more than a precursor to anorexia nervosa in the majority of cases, ergo a "low grade" AN, if you will. If a 300 lb. woman fails to get her period because of self-starvation, then she pretty obviously needs the same sort of treatment a standard anorectic too. 

I understand, on the other hand, why the DSM is so strict, but that's another story and I'm trying NOT to bore you.



rainyday said:


> Regarding eating disorders being emotional disorders, this is true. With bulima though there can be a physical/biochemical component as well. A very high percentage of bulimics are concurrently diagnosed with OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder), which in itself can be biochemical. In the last few years, research has also shown that people who have OCD are significantly more likely to have had strep throat as children and there's now thought to be some link, so there are physical processes at play that are still not clearly understood. I don't know if anorexia has the same kind of physical component as well.
> 
> 
> I do not believe I can ever call myself "recovered" from bulimia, even if I go the rest of my life never purging again, and I have seen the same conclusion drawn by many who treat eating disorders. I am biologically predisposed and situational emotional triggers will always have the potential to restart the spiral. The difference now is that several years of therapy gave me the tools to look at the situation pragmatically and know what I need to do to take care of myself. If I ever feel things are beginning to slip again, my ass will be back in therapy ASAP because I have no desire to retrace any of that ground.
> ...


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## missaf (Nov 26, 2006)

The DSM isn't a perfect document, that's for sure. In time, with pressure, I'm sure it will change to encompass the needs of those who don't directly fit the mold of its diagnoses. The more research done for all EDs, the less political involvement, the better off we all are.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Nov 26, 2006)

Absolutely the DSM needs work. You still have serious eating disorders like bigorexia, orthorexia, etc., without any guide to diagnose them by.


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## Laina (Nov 26, 2006)

Jack Skellington said:


> There are other sides to this issue than yours.



But disbanding the fashion industry will not destroy eating disorders--they existed before the size zero ideal and they exist independently of models.

I should note that I don't entirely disagree. Hypersexualizing the quasi-child's body of runway models is dangerous, whether it's contributing to eating disorders or not. HOWEVER, there is a reason they call anorexia nervosa "the white girl's disease" and not "the supermodel disease". Not every eating disorder is related to attractiveness. For some of us it is a control issue, a matter of numbers or of escape or any number of other things.

When I'm actively starving myself, I am not thinking "I want to be Gisele". I'm thinking "I want to stop being at all".


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## Laina (Nov 26, 2006)

This will be my least popular post ever. Whatever. TSL did it.

I am a recovering anorexic. According to the therapist I saw, I will always be "recovering" never "recovered". Much like alcoholics and drug addicts, we don't get well. We get better, we get functional, but we are never cured. As a result, my entire life sometimes feels like a complicated balancing act: maintaining friendships, a relationship, a job, and a school career is overwhelming for everyone. Unlike most people, however, my coping mechanism is unapologetically self-destructive. When I feel overwhelmed I also feel guilty. When I feel guilty I feel ungainly. Too large, too obvious too...much. 

I started starving myself my sophomore year of highschool. I was a varsity cheerleader, a member of the drama club, a solid B student (hey, we can't all be winners). I had my first "real" boyfriend, friends and parents who were still married. I weighed roughly 125 and wore a size five. I was as a-typical as anyone pictures a future anorexic. In actuality, I was perfect for an ED. 

I was never pressured to be thin--I just was. I was active, and I inherited my father's metabolism. What kickstarted my ED wasn't an accidental weight gain or a parental warning. What actually happened was two fold: midterms hit, and I lost five pounds.

Once more. Midterms hit, and I lost five pounds. I was stressed, I was busy, and I didn't have time to eat. I lost five pounds, and my clothes got a little loose. I aced my midterms. Somewhere, somehow, a wire got crossed in my brain. I'm told I was at a prime age for that kind of thing to happen. I learned to relate losing weight with being good enough. At the opposite end of the spectrum was not only gaining weight but also staying the same. Maintaining my weight was not acceptable--losing weight, actively and constantly, was the only way I felt in control. Actively, constantly losing weight was the only way I felt good enough.

My first active phase ran from my sophomore year through my junior year. I quit cheering, quit drama, and my grades dropped to solid C's--again, atypical for control-obsessed anorexics, but I couldn't stand having so many variables to juggle. It was too complicated. It was too...much.

I did my couch time in high school. Some more early in college, terminating when my insurance stopped covering it. I haven't dropped below what can be considered "safe" weight since my first active phase. On my best days I wear a size 2--and steal my younger brothers' clothes. I can look at photographs of myself, but not in mirrors. I have to hide scales and ask my doctor not to give me the numbers on her scale. I can't eat in front of strangers. I can't eat at all if someone comments on my food. On bad days I can't handle food that touches--sandwiches, soup, anything in gravy. I can be touchy about the color of my food, I need to be able to see everything I'm eating, and I absolutely cannot eat if someone is watching me and not eating.

I am not desperate to be a supermodel. I feel prettier when I'm eating than I do when I'm starving myself--starvation and sex appeal are inversely related for me. I starve to feel un-sexual, to feel untouchable, undesirable...safe. Sexy, curvy women attract men--when I'm starving myself, I'm striving to be the opposite of that. I'm striving, however futiley, to uncomplicate my life. If I can shrink my existence to just those numbers on the scale, and then drop that number one digit at a time...eventually there's nothing left. Eventually no one can expect anything more of me. Eventually, I'm good enough--or so insignificant that it doesn't matter how good I am.

And I'm not the only one. Please, don't mitigate eating disorders by chalking us all up to fashionistas and supermodel wannabes. There are people who want nothing more than to be that size, that version of perfection...but that's not me, and that's not all of us who are trying to overcome eating disorders.

I swear, I'm done now.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Nov 26, 2006)

Oh, TSL did it. What am I? This year's Hitler?  "Sprrrrrrrrrringtime for Casey and Germany..."

I've been told that on recovered and recovering. Just not sure if I believe it. I believe in recovery and that I can be well. I honestly believe I'm working towards a point where there's not an obsession. 

But yeah, completely agree with you. You're more eloquent than I could wish to be. <3


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## ripley (Nov 26, 2006)

Casey,

I hope you're getting help there in CA. My prayers are with you. I know how self-loathing feels, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

PM me if you ever want to talk.

rip


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## Laina (Nov 26, 2006)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Oh, TSL did it. What am I? This year's Hitler?  "Sprrrrrrrrrringtime for Casey and Germany..."
> 
> I've been told that on recovered and recovering. Just not sure if I believe it. I believe in recovery and that I can be well. I honestly believe I'm working towards a point where there's not an obsession.
> 
> But yeah, completely agree with you. You're more eloquent than I could wish to be. <3



"Recovered" is still a scary word for me. Losing an eating disorder that I've lived with for nine years (god, now I feel old...) still feels like losing part of my identity. Which, of course, is part of not being healed yet and blah, blah, blah.

There's no eloquent way, unfortunately, to say "I hate being crazy, I hate being scared, I hate being sick and hurting and wishing my heart would just stop so I don't have to answer more questions". I still feel like I didn't get the essence of it across. I was never carefree and looks oriented. I avoided my friends, my family, lied to everyone I loved. I slept at the strangest times. I would bake incessantly and give food to anyone who'd take it. I had patterns that I couldn't deviate from--if I "cut a corner" while I was running, I had to run the entire loop again. Sometimes it would take me eight hours before I was convinced I'd run the whole thing the "right" way. I wasn't wearing miniskirts and feeling proud of my body. I was wearing jeans that had fit at a healthy weight and bulky sweaters and hanging tshirts and my hair was never clean and well cared for. I was hiding. I was, in my mind, disappearing.

None of that is pretty. I will never understand why people equate the two.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Nov 26, 2006)

ripley said:


> Casey,
> 
> I hope you're getting help there in CA. My prayers are with you. I know how self-loathing feels, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
> 
> ...



You and Laina and many others on here are just wonderful ladies.

I am feeling better, and unfortunately, it brings me to some pretty scary conclusions on how unhealthy certain relationships and daily ongoings were in my life. It makes me sad, but all I can do is resign to feel okay about it.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Nov 26, 2006)

Oh, the idea of being without it can be terrifying. For me the height of being recovered is realizing certain feelings are irrational. 

On that note, I was thinking about the appearance of most anorectic women I've known. Very similar in body type, but virtually none of them the traditional tall, model type. Mostly, they were average height women (5' 4" - 5' 6", brunette caucasians, thin, large-busted (proportionally, at even a relatively low BMI of 17+), small-boned, appeared to be smaller than they were... So I have to wonder if there aren't some physical traits. I know there are people of all sorts suffering, but there is a "look" I've noticed even with recovered people.

I understand hating being crazy, yet not wanting to live without it. If I could be in control of myself and my facilities and body at 70 lbs., I'd do it. Doesn't work that way though, and there's too much to lose.




Laina said:


> "Recovered" is still a scary word for me. Losing an eating disorder that I've lived with for nine years (god, now I feel old...) still feels like losing part of my identity. Which, of course, is part of not being healed yet and blah, blah, blah.
> 
> There's no eloquent way, unfortunately, to say "I hate being crazy, I hate being scared, I hate being sick and hurting and wishing my heart would just stop so I don't have to answer more questions". I still feel like I didn't get the essence of it across. I was never carefree and looks oriented. I avoided my friends, my family, lied to everyone I loved. I slept at the strangest times. I would bake incessantly and give food to anyone who'd take it. I had patterns that I couldn't deviate from--if I "cut a corner" while I was running, I had to run the entire loop again. Sometimes it would take me eight hours before I was convinced I'd run the whole thing the "right" way. I wasn't wearing miniskirts and feeling proud of my body. I was wearing jeans that had fit at a healthy weight and bulky sweaters and hanging tshirts and my hair was never clean and well cared for. I was hiding. I was, in my mind, disappearing.
> 
> None of that is pretty. I will never understand why people equate the two.


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