# Who would you be happy with representing the "Fat Community"



## wrestlingguy (May 6, 2010)

So I want to go off on a tangent based on the thread that was recently shut down by the mods.

There still seems to be some resentment over Donna S's original comment that she somehow represents the fat community. Some of the posts in the now closed thread bear this out.

With that said, what person, if they were to make an announcement that they were going national with their story and were telling the story of all fat people, would you not only be okay with, but support? Give reasons as well.

Remember, this community at large is not only represented here at Dims, but every other weight related forum on the net, so put your thinking caps on. Now, if you can't think of a person, perhaps you can list the characteristics of what you'd like to see in a person who could be the "leader" of the fat community to the rest of the world.


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## Dr. Feelgood (May 6, 2010)

There are some people who require others to speak for them, because they cannot speak for themselves: children, for example, and mentally retarded persons. But I am uncomfortable with the idea of adults appointing themselves as spokespersons for other adults -- and the more numerous the group they claim to represent, the more I distrust them. The people in any group are so diverse, representing so many different agendas, that anyone who claims to speak for them all is too likely to be speaking only for himself or herself.


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## Blackjack (May 6, 2010)

I've posted it before and I'll post it again: 

Fat Girls Float

I haven't seen it yet, but I was present during some filming sessions and I know personally a lot of people who are in it as well as Kira herself, so I've got high hopes for it. If nothing else, it's a very intelligent attempt at a voice that's not just on daytime trash TV or some special that warps the meaning of what people say. It's not just _about _fat people but also _made by _fat people. Even if it's not everything that might be expected, it's a leap forward from what's more commonly seen.

ETA: And this isn't to say that Kira is my only choice for representing size/fat acceptance; I'm just using her and her work as an example of the kind of representation that I want to see.


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## LillyBBBW (May 6, 2010)




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## exile in thighville (May 6, 2010)

in representing my interests and concerns as an straight male fa, phil, i'd be comfortable with you, james, jon blaze or sure, conrad (he's got a lot more experience than anyone else here in fat-media relations), speaking to a mass audience, assuming it wasn't edited for content. blackjack, wild zero and furious styles come to mind as articulate no-bullshitters with a good handle on the rights and wrongs of the gamut from preference to fetish as well. those are just a few off the top of my head. i'm also keen to represent myself.

i'm not sure who the women would want representing them but there's already an established precedent there. we've had positive body image role models, fat role models, plus size celebrities, authors etc who've advocated for themselves and people like them, so there's plenty to choose from. people sexually attracted to fat people don't have any public faces that i know of currently working toward advocacy. at least certainly none as visible as oh, meme roth or even marilyn wann.


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## mossystate (May 6, 2010)

LillyBBBW said:


>



AwwwwwwwwwYEAH!!!!!

:bow:

:bow:


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## Tooz (May 6, 2010)

Me! Sad part is I'm only half joking.


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## Surlysomething (May 6, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> I've posted it before and I'll post it again:
> 
> Fat Girls Float
> 
> ...



Wow, that was really cool. Thanks for posting it again, I missed it the first time.


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## fatgirlflyin (May 6, 2010)

I don't like the idea of anyone thinking they represent me or speak for me. I'm a big girl and I can do that just fine for myself.


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## bigmac (May 6, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> There still seems to be some resentment over Donna Simpson's original comment that she somehow represents the fat community. Some of the posts in the now closed thread bear this out.
> 
> With that said, what person, if they were to make an announcement that they were going national with their story and were telling the story of all fat people, would you not only be okay with, but support? Give reasons as well.
> 
> Now, if you can't think of a person, perhaps you can list the characteristics of what you'd like to see in a person who could be the "leader" of the fat community to the rest of the world.



We're not the type of community that needs *"a"* representative -- we're far to diverse for that. Furthermore, I resent people who presume to represent the community (especially if they inhabit an extreme -- some would say pathological -- corner of the community).

We don't need a representative we just need thousands (hell millions) of fat people to go out into the world and go to school, go to work, take care of their families ... . Just do their best to live full and productive lives -- and in doing so shatter stereo types and set positive examples.


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## moore2me (May 6, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> . . . (snipped) perhaps you can list the characteristics of what you'd like to see in a person who could be the "leader" of the fat community to the rest of the world.





exile in thighville said:


> . . . (snipped) i'm not sure who the women would want representing them but there's already an established precedent there. we've had positive body image role models, fat role models, plus size celebrities, authors etc who've advocated for themselves and people like them, so there's plenty to choose from. people sexually attracted to fat people don't have any public faces that i know of currently working toward advocacy. at least certainly none as visible as oh, meme roth or even marilyn wann.



In general terms, being a public figure and/or leader in the world today in my mind, has too much associated baggage. I just can't imagine ost sensible folks wanting to walk down that road. Look at what has happened to men and women who have voluntarily stepped into the public spotlight. Jack and John Kennedy, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Harvey Milk and Ronald Reagan --all victims of crazed assasins. Look at Bill Clinton, the Bushes, Nixon, Betty Ford and Rossyln Carter. No matter how you feel about the morals of these men and women - how would you handle having your faults discussed in detail - over and over again on TV, in magazines, in movies, or in Congressional hearings?

If you are a public figure, your family has to stand up to scrutiny. They become like bugs in an ant farm - watched constantly. Your daughter gets pregnant, well . . . you saw what happened to Sarah Palin. Your brother is a drunk or a doper - Clinton's brother and Carter's brother both were victims of political mud slinging. If you have a nervous problem or mental issues, your career will end up in the dumpster like McGovern. However, perhaps there are other reasons that being a public figure might attract someone.

There is fame. Would you like to be on TV? Who would you like to play you on SNL? What do you think Leno would say about you? How about Kathy Griffin or Howard Stern? Then there is the money. Unfortunately, most salaries for our public figures are inadequate for the time & effort that is required. However, some find nefarious ways of making more money. The illegal use of power or inside information has been the downfall of several folks who thought they were not paid well enough.

So WrestlingGuy, you asked for some qualities of a person who would represent our community. A better question might be, who in the world would want to have the job? And if they do want it, what in the heck is wrong with them? (We might as well know now, because the world will figure it out soon enough.)


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## tonynyc (May 6, 2010)




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## Slykrug (May 6, 2010)

I'd be happy with an individual or group who have some kind mechanism to ensure they truly do represent those they speak on behalf of and NAAFA comes to mind.


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## wrestlingguy (May 6, 2010)

bigmac said:


> We're not the type of community that needs *"a"* representative -- we're far to diverse for that. Furthermore, I resent people who presume to represent the community (especially if they inhabit an extreme -- some would say pathological -- corner of the community).
> 
> We don't need a representative we just need thousands (hell millions) of fat people to go out into the world and go to school, go to work, take care of their families ... . Just do their best to live full and productive lives -- and in doing so shatter stereo types and set positive examples.



And I suppose the black community didn't need diverse spokesman back in the 60's, from Dick Gregory, to Martin Luther King, to Malcolm X. One of the reasons I asked was to get a cross section of those who could represent all parts of this diverse community.

So, if a charismatic, articulate representative came forward who could make headway in how the fat community is perceived, would you piss on it simply because you don't want any one person speaking for you? I ask this of both you and FGF. What if one person began to change some of the perceptions within our country, and allowed you to stand taller within your local communities as well in representing both yourself as a person, and member of the fat community?

I'm a very vocal FA. I've changed some minds about my preferences, and why they aren't less valid than anyone else's. I'm not in the media. When I was (and I had my radio/internet show and website), I made it a point to change the subject from pro wrestling to featuring fat women in a light that I had always hoped would allow others to see that the women I interviewed were really cool people who happened to be fat. 

In the US, and some other countries, lobbyists and advocacy spokesmen are common. Some represent our interests, even though we may not know about them, or agree with everything they represent. For me, if given a choice, I'd rather have a person or two in the media looking out for us than not, because at the end of the day, we have more in common than we don't.


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## Fish (May 6, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> And I suppose the black community didn't need diverse spokesman back in the 60's, from Dick Gregory, to Martin Luther King, to Malcolm X. One of the reasons I asked was to get a cross section of those who could represent all parts of this diverse community.
> 
> So, if a charismatic, articulate representative came forward who could make headway in how the fat community is perceived, would you piss on it simply because you don't want any one person speaking for you? I ask this of both you and FGF. What if one person began to change some of the perceptions within our country, and allowed you to stand taller within your local communities as well in representing both yourself as a person, and member of the fat community?
> 
> ...



Ultimately, I think it's up to us all individually to stand for what we believe. I try to portray big people in positive lights in my comics and am very outspoken when asked about my feelings on the subject. 

Donna gets a lot of flack for her outspokenness and the specifics of what she's saying that I don't think are very fair. (There are whole threads that seem devoted to that specific debate) But at the end of the day, there isn't just ONE "Fat Community" to be represented by any individual, but millions of unique people with lots to say. 

Let's all get out there and say what we need to say.


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## stldpn (May 6, 2010)

bigmac said:


> We don't need a representative we just need thousands (hell millions) of fat people to go out into the world and go to school, go to work, take care of their families ... . Just do their best to live full and productive lives -- and in doing so shatter stereo types and set positive examples.



This is pretty much the way I see it too. No community that has suffered with the kind of workforce and social discrimination that fat people have faced has truly been pulled out of it by a "leader." The normalization of the stereotype didn't happen over days or months so the removal of the stigma won't go away that quickly either. 

The perception that one individual representing a group can typify a community nationwide doesn't ring true for me. Because when I think of the people who changed my mind about the stereotypes I was asked to embrace in childhood, I don't think about a leader. I think about a teacher, a priest, a family friend, someone I worked with, or a personal friend who showed me that not all bikers were grungy criminals and not all addicts are hopeless derelicts and on and on. These people in my life became ambassadors because I saw that they were kind decent working people too. 

If you want people to know that fat people aren't a drain on society, or that it isn't "weird" to have sexual interest in fat the best way to combat the stereotype if you're a fat person or an admirer is to live like everybody else. Be social, get involved, don't hide, but don't assume you have to carry a banner either. You don't have to attend bashes or pay naafa dues to be involved, you just have to be normal and encourage the people around you. Be exactly who you are, and be unafraid.


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## Fish (May 6, 2010)

stldpn said:


> This is pretty much the way I see it too. No community that has suffered with the kind of workforce and social discrimination that fat people have faced has truly been pulled out of it by a "leader." The normalization of the stereotype didn't happen over days or months so the removal of the stigma won't go away that quickly either.
> 
> The perception that one individual representing a group can typify a community nationwide doesn't ring true for me. Because when I think of the people who changed my mind about the stereotypes I was asked to embrace in childhood, I don't think about a leader. I think about a teacher, a priest, a family friend, someone I worked with, or a personal friend who showed me that not all bikers were grungy criminals and not all addicts are hopeless derelicts and on and on. These people in my life became ambassadors because I saw that they were kind decent working people too.
> 
> If you want people to know that fat people aren't a drain on society, or that it isn't "weird" to have sexual interest in fat the best way to combat the stereotype if you're a fat person or an admirer is to live like everybody else. Be social, get involved, don't hide, but don't assume you have to carry a banner either. You don't have to attend bashes or pay naafa dues to be involved, you just have to be normal and encourage the people around you. Be exactly who you are, and be unafraid.



Well said. (I've apparently repped too many times today.)


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## exile in thighville (May 6, 2010)

moore2me said:


> A better question might be, who in the world would want to have the job? And if they do want it, what in the heck is wrong with them?



collared princess to thread


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## exile in thighville (May 6, 2010)

stldpn said:


> This is pretty much the way I see it too. No community that has suffered with the kind of workforce and social discrimination that fat people have faced has truly been pulled out of it by a "leader." The normalization of the stereotype didn't happen over days or months so the removal of the stigma won't go away that quickly either.
> 
> The perception that one individual representing a group can typify a community nationwide doesn't ring true for me. Because when I think of the people who changed my mind about the stereotypes I was asked to embrace in childhood, I don't think about a leader. I think about a teacher, a priest, a family friend, someone I worked with, or a personal friend who showed me that not all bikers were grungy criminals and not all addicts are hopeless derelicts and on and on. These people in my life became ambassadors because I saw that they were kind decent working people too.
> 
> If you want people to know that fat people aren't a drain on society, or that it isn't "weird" to have sexual interest in fat the best way to combat the stereotype if you're a fat person or an admirer is to live like everybody else. Be social, get involved, don't hide, but don't assume you have to carry a banner either. You don't have to attend bashes or pay naafa dues to be involved, you just have to be normal and encourage the people around you. Be exactly who you are, and be unafraid.



unfortunately none of this has an engine for the big picture because it all happens day-to-day and the barrier is still there


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## stldpn (May 6, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> unfortunately none of this has an engine for the big picture because it all happens day-to-day and the barrier is still there



Umm yes and no, because the reality of it is, even people who participate in the engine rarely take it that seriously. I did the naafa thing years back, I went to the meetings and worked the steps. But most of that shit is done in little rooms in a church basement, or at a denny's. 

What you begin to realize is that people who are involved in building up this so called awareness among people who are supposedly unaware are often percieved as annoying as shit. And being percieved as whiny really doesn't help anybody who isn't fat or doesn't see how unfair it is to assume someone is a slob because they're fat etc to come out of that reality. If anything it hardens their position. If you go down to Alabama and sit at a bus stop and talk about how great Malcolm X is you'll get knifed. But if you talk to a friend about how your boss has said derogatory things that hurt your feelings your friend is going to be more aware not only of how they speak to you but of how they deal with other people they don't really know. 

I experienced this in spades when it came to the LGBT community. Having a lobbyist is great, but having your coworker, or priest, or sister or cousin who respects you also acknowledge that you're living with another man and you're happy and normal, means that they are much less likely to pick at other people over it. It really is a hearts and minds and perceptions issue. And if you want to the engine? Work on you. Be what you would like to see in a leader. Because you have more power to normalize this situation than a leader would.

Eventually, if you do that long enough, you have support when you need to cross the barrier because everyone says "gee, that isn't right that Jon and Ken can't get married if they want to, those two have been together forever."


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## spiritangel (May 6, 2010)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> There are some people who require others to speak for them, because they cannot speak for themselves: children, for example, and mentally retarded persons. But I am uncomfortable with the idea of adults appointing themselves as spokespersons for other adults -- and the more numerous the group they claim to represent, the more I distrust them. The people in any group are so diverse, representing so many different agendas, that anyone who claims to speak for them all is too likely to be speaking only for himself or herself.





I agree with this, I dont feel like just one person does represent us

we all have amazing stories and our own journies that whilst simmilar have all been handled differently, we all have something positive to offer the world

THanks for the link to fat girls float another great looking documentary really impressed by it 


Hugs some excellent and valid points in this thread


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

hmmm i can't think of any one person. one person i think could make a lot of headway as part f a group of SA leaders would be is Shaquille O'Neal. his heart is already there. he supports the Monique pageant and things like that. i also like the art show he curated called "Size Does Matter" . i like the overall spirit because its not just about large but also about small. its not only about fat but also about short and tall and anything else you can think of and the humanity of everyone who doesn't fit into the norm. and IMO thats what SA should really be like. because most people already feel positively toward him i think they'd listen to what he had to say about differences. i don't think he should be the definitive leader by any means. one is not a good idea IMO. but i think a group of people from various backgrounds hitting the issue from various perspectives both popular and academic would be great.

heres are a couple of links to the "Size Does Matter" show that he curated earlier this year:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/...l?
slidenumber=KYPkYNPvjWQ=&&&&&#slide_image


http://www.flagartfoundation.org/current/


PBS News Hour Art Beat: "I named this art show 'Size DOES Matter,' because when something is so big and so beautiful, people have to take a second look," O'Neal said playfully. "And I picked out some beautiful stuff by some great artists."

Indeed, the names included in the show are big, if not their pieces. Chuck Close, Ron Mueck, Jeff Koons, Elizabeth Peyton, Corban Walker and Cindy Sherman are among the dozens of artists represented." 

View attachment shaq-oneal-curater-size-does-matter-00-580x595.jpg


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

some more art from the show: 

View attachment SHAQ_53.jpg


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## moore2me (May 7, 2010)

moore2me said:


> So WrestlingGuy, you asked for some qualities of a person who would represent our community. A better question might be, who in the world would want to have the job? And if they do want it, what in the heck is wrong with them? (We might as well know now, because the world will figure it out soon enough.)





exile in thighville said:


> collared princess to thread



Exile,

Me no understand your comment????


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## bigmac (May 7, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> And I suppose the black community didn't need diverse spokesman back in the 60's, from Dick Gregory, to Martin Luther King, to Malcolm X. One of the reasons I asked was to get a cross section of those who could represent all parts of this diverse community.
> 
> So, if a charismatic, articulate representative came forward who could make headway in how the fat community is perceived, would you piss on it simply because you don't want any one person speaking for you? I ask this of both you and FGF. What if one person began to change some of the perceptions within our country, and allowed you to stand taller within your local communities as well in representing both yourself as a person, and member of the fat community?
> 
> ...



MLK and the rest worked their way into positions of leadership. They didn't just go on TV or radio and claim to speak for their constituents.

From what I've seen we could do without most of the self appointed fat advocates. A freak show is not going to help anyone.


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## exile in thighville (May 7, 2010)

stldpn said:


> Umm yes and no, because the reality of it is, even people who participate in the engine rarely take it that seriously. I did the naafa thing years back, I went to the meetings and worked the steps. But most of that shit is done in little rooms in a church basement, or at a denny's.
> 
> What you begin to realize is that people who are involved in building up this so called awareness among people who are supposedly unaware are often percieved as annoying as shit. And being percieved as whiny really doesn't help anybody who isn't fat or doesn't see how unfair it is to assume someone is a slob because they're fat etc to come out of that reality. If anything it hardens their position. If you go down to Alabama and sit at a bus stop and talk about how great Malcolm X is you'll get knifed. But if you talk to a friend about how your boss has said derogatory things that hurt your feelings your friend is going to be more aware not only of how they speak to you but of how they deal with other people they don't really know.
> 
> ...



nothing that you mention here transcends any kind of _boundary_. the differences between the inspirational-rehash above and the cultural influence of say, a major actor like jamie foxx participating in a fat admiration campaign, with a press conference and ads, officially "coming out" the way someone like clay aiken can and get on magazine covers, would be transgressive enough to make people discuss whether or not fat admiration is so marginal after all. in fact, any kind of Legitimate Known Person coming out as an FA and making a point of it would make waves. that hasn't happened, not once, in a country that is mostly overweight and mostly fucking. to ignore the implications of this serious cultural divide is to be completely naive; "work on you" - i'm accounted for. work on mass changes to encourage the closeted many to act normal.

as it stands, a whole lot of people taught to love their own bodies doesn't mean much outside of those people's own lives. it's why no one really gives a shit when mika (gay) or leonard nimoy (not an fa) say something nice about the people they don't prefer in bed.


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> nothing that you mention here transcends any kind of _boundary_. the differences between the inspirational-rehash above and the cultural influence of say, a major actor like jamie foxx participating in a fat admiration campaign, with a press conference and ads, officially "coming out" the way someone like clay aiken can and get on magazine covers, would be transgressive enough to make people discuss whether or not fat admiration is so marginal after all. in fact, any kind of Legitimate Known Person coming out as an FA and making a point of it would make waves. that hasn't happened, not once, in a country that is mostly overweight and mostly fucking. to ignore the implications of this serious cultural divide is to be completely naive; "work on you" - i'm accounted for. work on mass changes to encourage the closeted many to act normal.
> 
> as it stands, a whole lot of people taught to love their own bodies doesn't mean much outside of those people's own lives. it's why no one really gives a shit when mika (gay) or leonard nimoy (not an fa) say something nice about the people they don't prefer in bed.


 

i know a lot of celebs who've participated on a local level here . but unfortunately groups like NAAFA have never reached out the them or invited them to do anything.


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## fatgirlflyin (May 7, 2010)

I get what you mean about JFK and Martin Luther King but to be honest here fat acceptance and the civil rights movement aren't quite the same thing. Fat people aren't being lynched, forced to drink out of separate water fountains, or pulled over for driving in a skinny neighborhood. If we were then just maybe I could get behind the idea that we need someone to speak for the collective us. 

With that being said, today If someone were all of the sudden appointed "spokesperson" for all fat people it wouldn't make me stand any taller than I already do. My fat doesn't affect the way I feel about myself because I was not raised to believe that being fat makes me less of a person than anyone else. 




wrestlingguy said:


> And I suppose the black community didn't need diverse spokesman back in the 60's, from Dick Gregory, to Martin Luther King, to Malcolm X. One of the reasons I asked was to get a cross section of those who could represent all parts of this diverse community.
> 
> So, if a charismatic, articulate representative came forward who could make headway in how the fat community is perceived, would you piss on it simply because you don't want any one person speaking for you? I ask this of both you and FGF. What if one person began to change some of the perceptions within our country, and allowed you to stand taller within your local communities as well in representing both yourself as a person, and member of the fat community?
> 
> ...


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## butch (May 7, 2010)

Go to the Fat Forum in NYC on May 20th if you want to see the folks who I'm happy to let 'speak for me.'


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## exile in thighville (May 7, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i know a lot of celebs who've participated on a local level here . but unfortunately groups like NAAFA have never reached out the them or invited them to do anything.



could you explain this a little more? and why should we wait for naafa to invite them?


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## exile in thighville (May 7, 2010)

butch said:


> Go to the Fat Forum in NYC on May 20th if you want to see the folks who I'm happy to let 'speak for me.'



well this too.


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## exile in thighville (May 7, 2010)

fatgirlflyin said:


> Fat people aren't being lynched, forced to drink out of separate water fountains, or pulled over for driving in a skinny neighborhood.



this is sort of the crux of a major problem with the fat acceptance movement: BECAUSE fatophobia doesn't have the physical toll, bigoted legislation and body count you can point to with black history or homophobia, don't you think that makes it arguably a harder struggle for acceptance, because it's not taken as seriously or respected? because it's more complex and deeply ingrained in the culture, with no easy targets to vilify or hold responsible?

fatophobia is an extremely gray area. for one thing, you could point to a great amount of kids and adults who are picked on, beaten up and harrassed for being fat - isn't that the definition of a hate crime? i'm not saying it should be treated like one necessarily, but what with all the obesity legislation and legalese coming up, discriminating doctors, and america's desperation in pursuit of a target everyone can agree on (the rub: including most fat people themselves) maybe it should be.


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## Paquito (May 7, 2010)

Well I don't think it's about who we would chose as a leader, but more of who would be good as a leader. Because with all movements, the media and population always choose a select few to pay special attention to (typically the most vocal), and invariably call them leaders of the ________ movement.


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## fatgirlflyin (May 7, 2010)

I get what you're saying and agree with most of it. 

Wish I had the answers to the questions you are asking. I think there should be some sort of consensus as to what size acceptance actually is before someone can claim to be a spokesperson for it. 



exile in thighville said:


> this is sort of the crux of a major problem with the fat acceptance movement: BECAUSE fatophobia doesn't have the physical toll, bigoted legislation and body count you can point to with black history or homophobia, don't you think that makes it arguably a harder struggle for acceptance, because it's not taken as seriously or respected? because it's more complex and deeply ingrained in the culture, with no easy targets to vilify or hold responsible?
> 
> fatophobia is an extremely gray area. for one thing, you could point to a great amount of kids and adults who are picked on, beaten up and harrassed for being fat - isn't that the definition of a hate crime? i'm not saying it should be treated like one necessarily, but what with all the obesity legislation and legalese coming up, discriminating doctors, and america's desperation in pursuit of a target everyone can agree on (the rub: including most fat people themselves) maybe it should be.


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## moore2me (May 7, 2010)

Quote from moore2me 
A better question might be, who in the world would want to have the job? And if they do want it, what in the heck is wrong with them? 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from exile in thighville
collared princess to thread
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*Exile in thighville,
Could you be so kind as to explain the meaning of your phrase "collarded princess in exile"?*


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> could you explain this a little more? and why should we wait for naafa to invite them?



i know that guys like Jamie Foxx, Ludacris, Shaq, Tyler Perry, Leonard Nimoy etc... and many more are all openly supportive of big women whether they date them or not. they participate in a lot of related foundations here in Atlanta for sure that deal with the issue as a part of their agenda. then there are all of the female celebrities as well. no one on a national SA level is inviting them to anything. IMO i don't think a man has to be or even should be an FA to be SA. in a way its even better because its not about sex. its about human rights. maybe the idea that a guy has to be sexually interested to be supportive of a human right needs to be revisited anyway. that can be insulting to people who really do care. there are a lot of people who could be approached on the basis of a fat mother , sister, cousin, or friend that they love or just on the bass of fairness and equality. does fuckability really have to be so important in this? are you looking for FA leadership to make FAs feel better about their preference or for real true SA?

the SA movement sometimes brings a weird sexual undertone to things at times. thats a problem. it makes it look unprofessional and somehow disingenuous. because some of the men have a personal sexual interest its very easy to discredit them inside of the community as well. and lets face it some of them really won't translate very well on the outside because a lot of the ones at the top are behind the times when it comes to womens rights and thats a taint as well. their personal lives won't stand up well to public scrutiny either. the community might sometimes give them a break but the outside world won't. also many don't have the experience with public relations and the social skills to deflect a lot of the public scrutiny they'd get and would probably make things look worse. plus the tendency not to restrain the tendency to name call judge and discredit other people they don't share views with would be counter productive to anything truly SA. SA can't afford burnt bridges if people want to get somewhere.

it would probably work better with mainly a group of fat women and men at the forefront with celeb endorsements and support. i think it would be very hard for an establishment FA to make it work because there are just too many conflicts that come with that. i guess its said often enough here. this is not about whether you want to fuck a fat woman or fat man or why. its not about trying to convince the world about why thats alright. i think thats partially why a lot of SA groups are ineffectual overtime because of the personal and sexual politics inside of them that make everyone involved question motives. this isn't about who you're sleeping with. its about why fat people will have their rights. its not about convincing anymore really. its about telling prejudiced people what is going to happen and using force of numbers and laws if necessary to get there. the movement needs the kind of people that the average world outside that it wants to influence will listen to and give them lots of attention if not their respect. i needs to bring people IRL in who have shared interests to participate. it needs to create political events that anyone no matter what their size is can relate to. i'm sorry but people just playing around on a sexual interest site like dims as their political action is just not going to work. 

IMO SA needs people who know whats appropriate so say in any media. it needs people who aren't shrill or arrogant. it needs people with connections in Washington. it needs people with experience and real talent. it needs people who've done the academic work who base what they say on airtight facts and not anecdote. it needs people who sling some media power and aren't afraid to take a hit. it needs people who can get along with and tap into the strength that all kinds of fat people have no matter what they do or how they do it and show them the proper respect so that we can even work together behind the scenes to push our agenda. it needs people who know there's more than one way to skin a cat. it needs a group of disparate kinds of people who'd probably make some real headway--especially if they aren't into infighting intolerance toward each other and defeatism. 

you're right to point out that we shouldn't necessarily wait for NAAFA. they haven't changed with the time. but it has a name ,a presence and a voice already which is a big part of the game. it could be reinvigorated. we could make it better if we really wanted to. but you're right that the idea might have to be scrapped. but it would be a shame to lose all of that institutional recognition though just because he egos can't get together in one room. that another tendency fat folk are going to have to get over if they want any of this to work. everytime something isn't going exactly our way we want to splinter off and go elsewhere because getting along is hard work and we don't want to do that. leaving something with potential is a big fail because you lose a lot of intellectual and experiential capital thats already been built up.


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

PS Exile: it saddens me to note that you don't know any actual fat people, or females that you think could represent the cause


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## exile in thighville (May 7, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> IMO i don't think a man has to be or even should be an FA to be SA.



yeah, but unlike the gays, our cause has a lot of visible talk and no action, so FA bias is actually welcome. plenty of people from jessica simpson to tyra banks who have zero interest in ever entering a relationship with a fat person, have expressed support for SA. no one with visibility has come out and confirmed that beauty is more than a feel-good-about-yourself campaign. let's call a spade a spade and say that an awareness campaign convincing the hundreds of closet FAs of actual normalcy rather than the untested theoretical, will make for happier admirees. it's easy to say big is beautiful and a whole other thing to feel beautiful enough to walk into a bar, be fat, and start talking to guys or girls with the assumption that you could actually go home with them because of and not despite your physical appearance. culture does not reflect that.


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## exile in thighville (May 7, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> PS Exile: it saddens me to note that you don't know any actual fat people, or females that you think could represent the cause



i echoed butch about the ones who will be speaking at the panel. but it's not the same cause as mine. i don't know what the women want represented so i'll let them decide. i picked guys who can articulate my perspective.

additionally, fat people and females _already have_ spokespeople and public figure role models so it's less pertinent to me. from gabourey to camryn manheim to beth ditto, the industry is loaded with those success stories. there's not one success story with a famous person being open about his love or lust for fat partners. i'd like to be able to point to someone who legitimizes that we're not subcultural, because i don't believe that we are.


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## EtobicokeFA (May 7, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i know that guys like Jamie Foxx, Ludacris, Shaq, Tyler Perry, Leonard Nimoy etc... and many more are all openly supportive of big women whether they date them or not. they participate in a lot of related foundations here in Atlanta for sure that deal with the issue as a part of their agenda. then there are all of the female celebrities as well. no one on a national SA level is inviting them to anything. IMO i don't think a man has to be or even should be an FA to be SA. in a way its even better because its not about sex. its about human rights. maybe the idea that a guy has to be sexually interested to be supportive of a human right needs to be revisited anyway. that can be insulting to people who really do care. there are a lot of people who could be approached on the basis of a fat mother , sister, cousin, or friend that they love or just on the bass of fairness and equality. does fuckability really have to be so important in this? are you looking for FA leadership to make FAs feel better about their preference or for real true SA?
> 
> the SA movement sometimes brings a weird sexual undertone to things at times. thats a problem. it makes it look unprofessional and somehow disingenuous. because some of the men have a personal sexual interest its very easy to discredit them inside of the community as well. and lets face it some of them really won't translate very well on the outside because a lot of the ones at the top are behind the times when it comes to womens rights and thats a taint as well. their personal lives won't stand up well to public scrutiny either. the community might sometimes give them a break but the outside world won't. also many don't have the experience with public relations and the social skills to deflect a lot of the public scrutiny they'd get and would probably make things look worse. plus the tendency not to restrain the tendency to name call judge and discredit other people they don't share views with would be counter productive to anything truly SA. SA can't afford burnt bridges if people want to get somewhere.
> 
> ...



I am sorry, that I can not rep this post.


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## cinnamitch (May 7, 2010)

EtobicokeFA said:


> I am sorry, that I can not rep this post.



Got her for you!


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## lypeaches (May 7, 2010)

I don't know about a representative, but I would be thrilled if our current Surgeon General, who is plus size herself, would get out there and reinforce the fact to the general public that fat does not necessarily equal unhealthy. Or, conversly, that thin doesn't necessarily equal healthy. Whatever. The point needs to be driven home.


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## moore2me (May 7, 2010)

Quote from moore2me (see post #11)
A better question might be, who in the world would want to have the job? And if they do want it, what in the heck is wrong with them? 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from exile in thighville (see post #18)
collared princess to thread
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Second Request* (see post# 35)

*Exile in thighville,
Could you be so kind as to explain the meaning of your phrase "collared princess to thread"?*
__________________


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> yeah, but unlike the gays, our cause has a lot of visible talk and no action, so FA bias is actually welcome. plenty of people from jessica simpson to tyra banks who have zero interest in ever entering a relationship with a fat person, have expressed support for SA. no one with visibility has come out and confirmed that beauty is more than a feel-good-about-yourself campaign. let's call a spade a spade and say that an awareness campaign convincing the hundreds of closet FAs of actual normalcy rather than the untested theoretical, will make for happier admirees. it's easy to say big is beautiful and a whole other thing to feel beautiful enough to walk into a bar, be fat, and start talking to guys or girls with the assumption that you could actually go home with them because of and not despite your physical appearance. culture does not reflect that.



fat people don't just live for sexual admiration. we don't have to get slept with to be respected. and enough of us are aware enough that we know that being sexually interested in us and respecting us and our rights can be two entirely different things. its easy to assume that being on a sex site like this one and being influenced by the adult industry like everybody here on the site is, but dims is not the world. fat people have lives, relationships and families. accessibility, equal pay, accessibility to work even with a fat related disability, healthcare that relates well with size and respects us, and other issues are over and above just being desired. 

making someone hard doesn't make you happy. living a full life does. i guess my SA is different from yours because i think you're more about trying to make things okay for FAs and i'm more interested in things being made alright for actual fat people. FAs can pretend not to like fat but fat people actually have to BE fat everyday in normal life and not just at bashes and online. we have to raise children, take care of aging parents, manage college campuses and politics, , go to work, travel, take care of our bodies and our minds and a ton of other everyday things. penises and vaginas come into play in there somewhere but when it comes down to actual living it doesn't always trump everything else we have to do. 

i guess what you're are talking about would represent you well but it wouldn't represent the fat community well in what it truly needs. we need support. why do we need support? because the prejudices against us reduce our actual quality of life sometimes. some fat people are already loved by people, are in relationships, feel desirable and supported at home. they, like fat folks still looking, want to fly on an airplane, take the train, take the subway, work , get medical care etc... the same as every other fat person. whether FAs exist or not impacts that little unless they are actually going to join a political effort to get those things done. we aren't all sad and alone or feel ugly. look at how many married and in relationship people are on dims. its odd to me to be expected to like myself only because someone else finds me sexually attractive. most of us have a lot more reasons that that. i personally want to be respected first anyway. and that means being supported by someone who thinks i'm capable of speaking for myself and loving myself an not just through him. 

i'm not totally scrapping everything about your view. i don't think it hurts that fat people feel desirable. but you've just illustrated my point well about why some FAs in general might not be a good choice to lead. they have their own agenda. some don't really find actual fat people capable of charting their own future and determining what they themselves need. they have no clue about how the rest of a fat person's life is besides their love life is really impacting them except on a surface level. they aren't always there to accentuate a fat person's self empowerment. A bias cuts both ways. its both a help and an hindrance. and thats also why i don't think the movement has progressed much in the past. its been too idealistically paternalistic. 

i know that some people feel they are being kind with this thinking, but they aren't. i feel its condescending toward fat people. besides all of that it really isn't about you. i think if an FA can respect that a fat person's life, feelings of self worth and position in society isn't and shouldn't be centered only around him/her then they'll be halfway to getting to the point that they would be a great representative. but if he/she had full awareness they wouldn't want to be and be ok with and understand why their role should basically just be support.

i don't think the major concern of a fat movement should be about begging closeted FAs to come out or begging the public to accept perfectly capable people who can work live and travel at will. . thats for an FA movement to do. IMO thats more of an internal move people have to make than a political or social move. the prejudice most FAs have faced is because a large amount are hidden. i don't think the entire focus of the fat community should be about mainly thin people who are just afraid of what people might think if they decide to tell the truth. especially when there are a lot of people out there who are willing to openly face whatever prejudice they'd face head on already. that whole idea really urks me because it is so dismissive of the people this is really all about. i think it would be more caring if those people actually were interested in what was happening to fat people everyday that they could never hide from even if they wanted to.

do you really feel that operating on a sexual bias can really trump someone who just truly cares and will put it out there?

also why do you think those "real beauty" people have made more of an impact in terms of how people think re: weight and gotten more support from the general public than NAAFA has lo these many years? we don't want people like Tyra to necessarily fuck us. we just want people like her to respect and understand us.


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> yeah, but unlike the gays, our cause has a lot of visible talk and no action, so FA bias is actually welcome. plenty of people from jessica simpson to tyra banks who have zero interest in ever entering a relationship with a fat person, have expressed support for SA. no one with visibility has come out and confirmed that beauty is more than a feel-good-about-yourself campaign. let's call a spade a spade and say that an awareness campaign convincing the hundreds of closet FAs of actual normalcy rather than the untested theoretical, will make for happier admirees. it's easy to say big is beautiful and a whole other thing to feel beautiful enough to walk into a bar, be fat, and start talking to guys or girls with the assumption that you could actually go home with them because of and not despite your physical appearance. culture does not reflect that.



sorry my last post was in response to this post


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## Jes (May 7, 2010)

Fish is right, there's no 1 fat community, but for me, since I come from and surround myself with a critical academic background, I think I'd like a theorist who can look at and share facts, as well as look at how society uses, misinterprets or lies about those facts and what the effects of those actions are. I think critical thinking is something that most people lack. America has a willful anti-intellectual bent (think about how many people liked WBush b/c he was 'just like us,' as if any completely average person should end up the President of any country anywhere) and that causes real problems for many of us, especially minorities (whether real or forced). People need to hear simple truths like: many weight-loss studies are bankrolled by diet companies: and they need to do some personal analysis of those facts. Look at my data-filled posts on the Haiti/Looting thread for some of what I mean. 

So... yes. An academic/social scientist. Someone with facts who can also interpret those facts in culturally relevant ways.


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## mossystate (May 7, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i know that guys like Jamie Foxx, Ludacris, Shaq, Tyler Perry, Leonard Nimoy etc... and many more are all openly supportive of big women whether they date them or not. they participate in a lot of related foundations here in Atlanta for sure that deal with the issue as a part of their agenda. then there are all of the female celebrities as well. no one on a national SA level is inviting them to anything. IMO i don't think a man has to be or even should be an FA to be SA. in a way its even better because its not about sex. its about human rights. maybe the idea that a guy has to be sexually interested to be supportive of a human right needs to be revisited anyway. that can be insulting to people who really do care. there are a lot of people who could be approached on the basis of a fat mother , sister, cousin, or friend that they love or just on the bass of fairness and equality. does fuckability really have to be so important in this? are you looking for FA leadership to make FAs feel better about their preference or for real true SA?
> 
> the SA movement sometimes brings a weird sexual undertone to things at times. thats a problem. it makes it look unprofessional and somehow disingenuous. because some of the men have a personal sexual interest its very easy to discredit them inside of the community as well. and lets face it some of them really won't translate very well on the outside because a lot of the ones at the top are behind the times when it comes to womens rights and thats a taint as well. their personal lives won't stand up well to public scrutiny either. the community might sometimes give them a break but the outside world won't. also many don't have the experience with public relations and the social skills to deflect a lot of the public scrutiny they'd get and would probably make things look worse. plus the tendency not to restrain the tendency to name call judge and discredit other people they don't share views with would be counter productive to anything truly SA. SA can't afford burnt bridges if people want to get somewhere.
> 
> ...





superodalisque said:


> fat people don't just live for sexual admiration. we don't have to get slept with to be respected. and enough of us are aware enough that we know that being sexually interested in us and respecting us and our rights can be two entirely different things. its easy to assume that being on a sex site like this one and being influenced by the adult industry like everybody here on the site is, but dims is not the world. fat people have lives, relationships and families. accessibility, equal pay, accessibility to work even with a fat related disability, healthcare that relates well with size and respects us, and other issues are over and above just being desired.
> 
> making someone hard doesn't make you happy. living a full life does. i guess my SA is different from yours because i think you're more about trying to make things okay for FAs and i'm more interested in things being made alright for actual fat people. FAs can pretend not to like fat but fat people actually have to BE fat everyday in normal life and not just at bashes and online. we have to raise children, take care of aging parents, manage college campuses and politics, , go to work, travel, take care of our bodies and our minds and a ton of other everyday things. penises and vaginas come into play in there somewhere but when it comes down to actual living it doesn't always trump everything else we have to do.
> 
> ...





^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

required reading


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## collared Princess (May 7, 2010)

free2beme04 said:


> Well I don't think it's about who we would chose as a leader, but more of who would be good as a leader. Because with all movements, the media and population always choose a select few to pay special attention to (typically the most vocal), and invariably call them leaders of the ________ movement.




Yes its about who the media chooses..They choose news and shock stories at first then it tends to settle into more normal everyday relationship with the media.You get to know producers you meet big name people,then they listen to you..but it takes scandal..thats what the media is all about


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

collared Princess said:


> Yes its about who the media chooses..They choose news and shock stories at first then it tends to settle into more normal everyday relationship with the media.You get to know producers you meet big name people,then they listen to you..but it takes scandal..thats what the media is all about



yep, what you are doing kinda gives people the mic who would never have had it before. but people have a hard time getting that. its like the thing between Malcom X and MLK* (good lord plz don't go around saying i'm calling CP Malcom X dammit!!! ) * People on both sides of the issue really really hated Malcom X. he had very few supporters. they thought he made everything dangerous. he scared everybody nearly to death. i remember my dad saying that he was going to cause us all to die in a race war. he was totally extreme. but without the tension between "by any means necessary" and "non violent social change?"... a movement needs all kinds of people for all kinds of reasons working at the same goal. what a lot of people didn't know at the time was that Malcom X and MLK were actually privately friends in cahoots. 

you've gotten a lot of press young lady, and if other people who can don't have sense enough to take this chance and step through the door you opened, its just their own fault. even if they don't want to be a leader on a large scale its an invitation to have a conversation to open the door to understanding on a small scale and maybe enlist people on the outside. lets see how long it takes people to get it. lots of people just ran last time. lol, this entire site ran. lets see if anyone will stand up this time, even in a small way.


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## msbard90 (May 7, 2010)

collared Princess said:


> Yes its about who the media chooses..They choose news and shock stories at first then it tends to settle into more normal everyday relationship with the media.You get to know producers you meet big name people,then they listen to you..but it takes scandal..thats what the media is all about



Let me get this out there, I don't agree with the things you do, but I do respect your decisions. I think that you, with your media experience, could help bring some light for those who are willing to speak for the SA movement. Obviously you're doing something right if you're being broadcast on national tv and we have oodles of threads about you. You're obviously making a statement. I think that you could give valuable advice to those who would like to make a move like yours into the national spotlight.


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## Vespertine (May 7, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> you've gotten a lot of press young lady, and if other people who can don't have sense enough to take this chance and step through the door you opened, its just their own fault.



That's right. I know plenty of women willing to walk through that door and happy enough for any opening in national conversation at this point. Also, people _may_ start asking the important and relevant questions about fat hatred if they are confronted by it within themselves. They have little chance of doing that if fat people are marginalized out of public eye entirely.


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## disconnectedsmile (May 7, 2010)

bigmac said:


> MLK and the rest worked their way into positions of leadership. They didn't just go on TV or radio and claim to speak for their constituents.


rather than have one person declare themselves the champion of the entire fat community, i'd like to see a few people appear on a public forum and say:

"some fatties like this and this. some FAs like this and this. 
but some fatties and FAs also like that, those, and the other. we're not all the same."


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## collared Princess (May 7, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> Let me get this out there, I don't agree with the things you do, but I do respect your decisions. I think that you, with your media experience, could help bring some light for those who are willing to speak for the SA movement. Obviously you're doing something right if you're being broadcast on national tv and we have oodles of threads about you. You're obviously making a statement. I think that you could give valuable advice to those who would like to make a move like yours into the national spotlight.



The best thing anyone can do right now is to either agree with me strongly in front of the media or strongly disagree with me..I wasnt joking when I said those fa's who strongly disagree with me they should picket against me.The media would LOVE that and whoever was ahead of that the media would jump on to ask more questions ...there you have your leader..the door is open right now


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## Preston (May 7, 2010)

Do we need a representative, I mean, really?

Is there a representative to the LGBT community? A leader of the Latino Community? 

How about we all just act morally, live our lives and intelligently deal with those that would marginalize us on a personal level? 

Rather than act as a member of some larger community, let's act as individuals. That way we don't have to have these fights about who is representing what. I represent me. You represent you.


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## mossystate (May 7, 2010)

collared Princess said:


> The best thing anyone can do right now is to either agree with me strongly in front of the media or strongly disagree with me..I wasnt joking when I said those fa's who strongly disagree with me they should picket against me.The media would LOVE that and whoever was ahead of that the media would jump on to ask more questions ...there you have your leader..the door is open right now



Or, just ignore you, in terms of any public response...unless it is to answer a question...and then, just give 'you ' as few words as possible...and move on to things that are not about publicity and anything self-serving. This is about the ' fat community '...not, who can give whom the best shots. Ugh.


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## collared Princess (May 7, 2010)

mossystate said:


> Or, just ignore you, in terms of any public response...unless it is to answer a question...and then, just give 'you ' as few words as possible...and move on to things that are not about publicity and anything self-serving. This is about the ' fat community '...not, who can give whom the best shots. Ugh.




yeah...


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## msbard90 (May 7, 2010)

Can we ever just stop bagging on Donna for goodness sake? I've read it all. I know what she does. I don't agree with it. But I DEFINITELY don't agree with everyone constantly throwing stones at her. What is this? First grade?

I agree there shouldn't be one spokesperson. As there shouldn't be one spokesperson for any particular cause. However, if there's change to be made, who's gonna start it?


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## Preston (May 7, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> Can we ever just stop bagging on Donna for goodness sake? I've read it all. I know what she does. I don't agree with it. But I DEFINITELY don't agree with everyone constantly throwing stones at her. What is this? First grade?
> 
> I agree there shouldn't be one spokesperson. As there shouldn't be one spokesperson for any particular cause. However, if there's change to be made, who's gonna start it?



We all start it with our actions. We act like people, we act intelligently as a group, and we'll be treated as such.

And I'm one of Donna's harshest critics, I swear to you that. I'm not picking on her because she's a gainer, or because she's a mother or because she constantly puts herself on TV in bad situations. As a matter of fact, I'm not picking on her at all, I'm calling out the foolish things she says, because I don't want our community to be represented as such.

Admittedly, I can be a little more biting and sarcastic than I should, but that's my way. I'd do the same to any person falsely claiming to represent a community that I am a part of.


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## msbard90 (May 7, 2010)

Preston said:


> We all start it with our actions. We act like people, we act intelligently as a group, and we'll be treated as such.
> 
> And I'm one of Donna's harshest critics, I swear to you that. I'm not picking on her because she's a gainer, or because she's a mother or because she constantly puts herself on TV in bad situations. As a matter of fact, I'm not picking on her at all, I'm calling out the foolish things she says, because I don't want our community to be represented as such.



My whole point is, how come Donna can't post without everyone cocking their guns ready to shoot her down? Why can't we let down our guard a little and just let the woman speak for once. Its foolish to assume that everything that comes out of her mouth is AUTOMATICALLY garbage, for she too is a human being, just like you and deserves to be treated as such. 

Not gonna lie, no one I know outside of the SA community even talks about her. No one cares. Its not gonna make me or break me, and if you have some issues with the way she carries herself, then maybe you should go and counter those issues in real life as opposed to shooting down the poor lady every time she posts on this site. Its just so fucked up. It really is.


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## mossystate (May 7, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> Can we ever just stop bagging on Donna for goodness sake? I've read it all. I know what she does. I don't agree with it. But I DEFINITELY don't agree with everyone constantly throwing stones at her. What is this? First grade?
> 
> I agree there shouldn't be one spokesperson. As there shouldn't be one spokesperson for any particular cause. However, if there's change to be made, who's gonna start it?



Whoa. Wait a minute.

To counter something she says is not " bagging on her ". She put it out there. She made a suggestion that ' this ', the topic of this thread, should be all about protesting * her *. The conversation is moving away from her. This is not saying that she can't/shouldn't continue to do what she does...but it does suggest that the more circus-type of " yeah, put 'em up!!, picket and protest so Tyra and Jerry will both be fighting over who gets the best ' fat folks gone wild ' ratings!! ", is not going to ultimately do any good for a group. We are not talking about what good it does the pocketbooks/egos of individuals...and that is not all about one person.


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## Preston (May 7, 2010)

mossystate said:


> Whoa. Wait a minute.
> 
> To counter something she says is not " bagging on her ". She put it out there. She made a suggestion that ' this ', the topic of this thread, should be all about protesting * her *. The conversation is moving away from her. This is not saying that she can't/shouldn't continue to do what she does...but it does suggest that the more circus-type of " yeah, put 'em up!!, picket and protest so Tyra and Jerry will both be fighting over who gets the best ' fat folks gone wild ' ratings!! ", is not going to ultimately do any good for a group. We are not talking about what good it does the pocketbooks/egos of individuals...and that is not all about one person.


I agree entirely. Fame sought from the afternoon chat shows is no fame I want a part of.


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## msbard90 (May 7, 2010)

mossystate said:


> Whoa. Wait a minute.
> 
> To counter something she says is not " bagging on her ". She put it out there. She made a suggestion that ' this ', the topic of this thread, should be all about protesting * her *. The conversation is moving away from her. This is not saying that she can't/shouldn't continue to do what she does...but it does suggest that the more circus-type of " yeah, put 'em up!!, picket and protest so Tyra and Jerry will both be fighting over who gets the best ' fat folks gone wild ' ratings!! ", is not going to ultimately do any good for a group. We are not talking about what good it does the pocketbooks/egos of individuals...and that is not all about one person.



I'm not agreeing with it, but I have a question? Has her tv show appearances negatively impacted or hindered your life? Or is it just something everyone can agree to disagree on. I am not saying I enjoy the way she goes about doing things, but it just seems that every single time she posts, everyone goes nuts and has to put her down. If everyone was as hostile on this site to eachother as they are to CP, then this site would be a wasteland by now. Just some food for thought.


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## Jes (May 7, 2010)

Preston said:


> Do we need a representative, I mean, really?
> 
> Is there a representative to the LGBT community? A leader of the Latino Community?
> 
> ...



i'm not really sure this addresses the question at hand. I understand what you're saying, but because the media, and critics (by which I mean those who critique, not those who criticize) exist, people are asked to voice their opinions, but we can't all have our 15 min. of fame. So only a few end up in the spotlight. 

if, for example, there were a Nightline program on the issue of size in america, would you prefer 4 empty chairs and a moderator with no one to talk to? That's what your message above suggests. If that's still your answer to the OP, then ok.


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## Preston (May 7, 2010)

Jes said:


> i'm not really sure this addresses the question at hand. I understand what you're saying, but because the media, and critics (by which I mean those who critique, not those who criticize) exist, people are asked to voice their opinions, but we can't all have our 15 min. of fame. So only a few end up in the spotlight.
> 
> if, for example, there were a Nightline program on the issue of size in america, would you prefer 4 empty chairs and a moderator with no one to talk to? That's what your message above suggests. If that's still your answer to the OP, then ok.



Actually, yeah, I would. Acting like we're any different than other people only serves to further segregate us.

I like large women. I also like tacos. Does the taco-eating community have a Night-Line special forthcoming? The media is a flawed creature that serves us little to no purpose.


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## mossystate (May 7, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> I'm not agreeing with it, but I have a question? Has her tv show appearances negatively impacted or hindered your life? Or is it just something everyone can agree to disagree on. I am not saying I enjoy the way she goes about doing things, but it just seems that every single time she posts, everyone goes nuts and has to put her down. If everyone was as hostile on this site to eachother as they are to CP, then this site would be a wasteland by now. Just some food for thought.



Oy.

I am _saying _that this thread is about who/what kind of people ' should ' represent fat people. If someone, yes, even CP, says that they think it should be a Jerry Springer neener-neener fightfest....then I am going to say...NO. CP is not some lamb in the woods. She has come into this thread ( which is not one she started ) to suggest things, which means there might be countering viewpoints. This is not about her....that's the POINT.


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## msbard90 (May 7, 2010)

mossystate said:


> Oy.
> 
> I am _saying _that this thread is about who/what kind of people ' should ' represent fat people. If someone, yes, even CP, says that they think it should be a Jerry Springer neener-neener fightfest....then I am going to say...NO. CP is not some lamb in the woods. She has come into this thread ( which is not one she started ) to suggest things. *This is not about her....that's the POINT*.



And my point is that everyone makes it about her. All I'm asking is for people to just stop treating her like she's not a human. Not you in particular, but everyone as a whole. I'm sick of the egos around here. She's not right, but no one else is to slam her down like a dirty dog for the things she says.


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## wrestlingguy (May 7, 2010)

Preston said:


> Actually, yeah, I would. Acting like we're any different than other people only serves to further segregate us.
> 
> I like large women. I also like tacos. Does the taco-eating community have a Night-Line special forthcoming? The media is a flawed creature that serves us little to no purpose.



The taco eating community doesn't get maligned by the non-taco eating community.


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## Preston (May 7, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> The taco eating community doesn't get maligned by the non-taco eating community.



True, but here's the thing. Our actions as members of society are going to win over far more people than any representative of our community ever could.


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## disconnectedsmile (May 7, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> I am not saying I enjoy the way she goes about doing things, but it just seems that every single time she posts, everyone goes nuts and has to put her down.


if she didn't regularly post gems like this...


collared Princess said:


> ..I dont want to be associated with people who nit pick everything apart pretend to be ok with there weight eating salads in public and boxes of choc in the closet..I like to eat my boxes where everyone can see...I'm real..Im hard core and Im honest..


...i'm sure people wouldn't get worked up as easily.


also, lest we forget...


collared Princess said:


> Im a Rosa Parks for feeders and feedee's


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## mossystate (May 7, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> And my point is that everyone makes it about her. All I'm asking is for people to just stop treating her like she's not a human. Not you in particular, but everyone as a whole. I'm sick of the egos around here. She's not right, but no one else is to slam her down like a dirty dog for the things she says.



SHE was making it about her. That's what you refuse to see. At some point you have to stop patronizing her as if she has no voice, or doesn't know...very well...how to use it. I commented about the fact that she wants to convince people that the best way to completely open a door is by using one very particular tactic. This thread is about ideas. Other people are suggesting things....some agree with them...some don't. One...even CP...should not come into such a thread and suggest things, if there is to be no feedback. FFS.

And with that.....yeah....everybody....read SuperO's post.

Plop.


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## Jes (May 7, 2010)

Preston said:


> Actually, yeah, I would. Acting like we're any different than other people only serves to further segregate us.
> 
> I like large women. I also like tacos. Does the taco-eating community have a Night-Line special forthcoming? The media is a flawed creature that serves us little to no purpose.


well, we ARE different. we're fatter.  haha. but, seriously, there are differences because of size. Anyway, I'm not going to try to change your mind because a. it wouldn't work and b. i don't really give a shit. i respect your position. but i might tune in to a taco nightline debate. crunchy v. soft: you decide.


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## Preston (May 7, 2010)

Jes said:


> well, we ARE different. we're fatter.  haha. but, seriously, there are differences because of size. Anyway, I'm not going to try to change your mind because a. it wouldn't work and b. i don't really give a shit. i respect your position. but i might tune in to a taco nightline debate. crunchy v. soft: you decide.



Please, it's all about the double decker. Crunchy and soft...

...Should not have skipped lunch today.


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## Jes (May 7, 2010)

Preston said:


> True, but here's the thing. Our actions as members of society are going to win over far more people than any representative of our community ever could.



i wonder if this is at the heart of some of the anger about Donna. If the above is true, and if Donna has more of the spotlight right now than NAAFA, HAES and Gabby Sidibe* combined, then I can imagine why her presence is jarring to some of you. 

On top of what SuperO says, which in my heart I do believe to be true.


*ok, maybe not Gabby.


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

mossystate said:


> Oy.
> 
> I am _saying _that this thread is about who/what kind of people ' should ' represent fat people. If someone, yes, even CP, says that they think it should be a Jerry Springer neener-neener fightfest....then I am going to say...NO. CP is not some lamb in the woods. She has come into this thread ( which is not one she started ) to suggest things. This is not about her....that's the POINT.



no. you are right, its not about her. but she could be useful and she's offering it. lots of people cut deals to get what they need to do done. i don't think it has to be handled in the worst way possible though. i'm not sure thats what CP is totally getting at. she is saying that they could picket her like any other protester might. it doesn't mean they'd have t get down and dirty. they'd get media attention for their point of view. 5 seconds might be a nice trade off for real media attention. and after all media would probably love the chance to show dissenters just like she said. 

it might start off a lil messed up to begin with but then it could result in something much better later. i bet the forum in NYC would get a lot more media coverage and there would be no yelling there. media might actually be put in the position to think about weight through what a lot of people might feel are more responsible eyes for a while anyway. 

the only problem would be that i do think that the opposition here would probably take it to the Jerry Springer level because they dislike her so much they would lose sight of the real goal and just go after her tooth and nail and try to get personal. that would really screw things up. if they could keep it together it would be worth something.


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## msbard90 (May 7, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> no. you are right, its not about her. but she could be useful and she's offering it. lots of people cut deals to get what they need to do done. i don't think it has to be handled in the worst way possible though. i'm not sure thats what CP is totally getting at. she is saying that they could picket her like any other protester might. it doesn't mean they'd have t get down and dirty. they'd get media attention for their point of view. 5 seconds might be a nice trade off for real media attention. and after all media would probably love the chance to show dissenters just like she said.
> 
> it might start off a lil messed up to begin with but then it could result in something much better later. i bet the forum in NYC would get a lot more media coverage and there would be no yelling there. media might actually be put in the position to think about weight through what a lot of people might feel are more responsible eyes for a while anyway.
> 
> the only problem would be that i do think that the opposition here would probably take it to the Jerry Springer level because they dislike her so much they would lose sight of the real goal and just go after her tooth and nail and try to get personal. that would really screw things up. if they could keep it together it would be worth something.



That's what I'm saying....


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## collared Princess (May 7, 2010)

mossystate said:


> Whoa. Wait a minute.
> 
> To counter something she says is not " bagging on her ". She put it out there. She made a suggestion that ' this ', the topic of this thread, should be all about protesting * her *. The conversation is moving away from her. This is not saying that she can't/shouldn't continue to do what she does...but it does suggest that the more circus-type of " yeah, put 'em up!!, picket and protest so Tyra and Jerry will both be fighting over who gets the best ' fat folks gone wild ' ratings!! ", is not going to ultimately do any good for a group. We are not talking about what good it does the pocketbooks/egos of individuals...and that is not all about one person.




Look truth of the matter is, Ive bumbled my way through life .Ive always done what I felt and always said what I thought ..that is just the way IM made up..5 years ago when I was in dim's fat and gaining chat, I had no idea that my convictions or idea's would put me in the spot light of the media..I had no clue..you can belive that or not but it is the truth..I do what I want to do..always have..Im a very sensitive person who would give just about anything for a friend or someone who needs anything.You dont see that side of me..others do..I realise my life is very controversial and I havent even begun to talk about my past and life experiences..All I can say is that IM here in the media whether Im a nutcase or a genus or stupid or whatever..Im here with alot of things set up for the very near future..all I can do is give advice on what I think anyone can do..Im sorry that Im not the perfect person to be in the limelight but you must understand ,thats not what the media wants..Im sorry..I wish I could be this strong wonderful speaker who glides right into things gracefully instead Im a bumbling idiot who wakes up in strange places.Philippe has the poise to make me look half way normal.His back ground being the son of a diplomat,going to Ivy leauge schools and going to school with Barack Obama..suddenly I dont seem so crazy I guess.This is all I have to offer you guys..please jump on if you want to..jump on the crazy train


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## msbard90 (May 7, 2010)

mossystate said:


> SHE was making it about her. That's what you refuse to see. At some point you have to stop patronizing her as if she has no voice, or doesn't know...very well...how to use it. I commented about the fact that she wants to convince people that the best way to completely open a door is by using one very particular tactic. This thread is about ideas. Other people are suggesting things....some agree with them...some don't. One...even CP...should not come into such a thread and suggest things, if there is to be no feedback. FFS.
> 
> And with that.....yeah....everybody....read SuperO's post.
> 
> Plop.




I'm not patronizing anyone. I'm just promoting the idea that maybe people should act a little human toward eachother. We already understand what she does. So for everything she says, do we really have to keep poking at it? Is there a point where you can just say, "I get it. She isn't representative of the SA community. " and just leave her alone? Thats all. Obviously picketing or whatever idea she said was not a good one. So instead of everyone being all snarky at her, just ignore it. That's all.


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## disconnectedsmile (May 7, 2010)

EDIT:
decided i didn't want my 800th post to be what i originally posted.


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## mossystate (May 7, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> no. you are right, its not about her. but she could be useful and she's offering it. lots of people cut deals to get what they need to do done. i don't think it has to be handled in the worst way possible though. i'm not sure thats what CP is totally getting at. she is saying that they could picket her like any other protester might. it doesn't mean they'd have t get down and dirty. they'd get media attention for their point of view. 5 seconds might be a nice trade off for real media attention. and after all media would probably love the chance to show dissenters just like she said.
> 
> it might start off a lil messed up to begin with but then it could result in something much better later. i bet the forum in NYC would get a lot more media coverage and there would be no yelling there. media might actually be put in the position to think about weight through what a lot of people might feel are more responsible eyes for a while anyway.
> 
> the only problem would be that i do think that the opposition here would probably take it to the Jerry Springer level because they dislike her so much they would lose sight of the real goal and just go after her tooth and nail and try to get personal. that would really screw things up. if they could keep it together it would be worth something.



I guess I see nothing ' positive ' in picketing and protesting an individual with a kink...a fetish. That's how I see this kind of situation. Yes, this one person has a homelife...family...etc...but those things are not what drives _this _life of hers. Conversation can spring from even the craziest of circumstances...true...but I don't know that this is something to rally behind. The Jerry Springer aspect is established...without the opposition. Every fat person has the right to be heard, and to live the life they wish...I just cringe at the idea that once again, it has to be the fringe element of fat that acts as foundations of conversation and windows.


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## mossystate (May 7, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> I'm not patronizing anyone. I'm just promoting the idea that maybe people should act a little human toward eachother. We already understand what she does. So for everything she says, do we really have to keep poking at it? Is there a point where you can just say, "I get it. She isn't representative of the SA community. " and just leave her alone? Thats all. Obviously picketing or whatever idea she said was not a good one. So instead of everyone being all snarky at her, just ignore it. That's all.



Ok...I shouldn't have told her what I thought of her suggestion. PLease forgive the participating on this message board. Try the chicken...it is really moist.


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## wrestlingguy (May 7, 2010)

Preston said:


> True, but here's the thing. Our actions as members of society are going to win over far more people than any representative of our community ever could.



That's a theory, simply because no one has ever stepped up to represent any part of this diverse community.

Plus, spokespeople for other groups have had some success in changing how those groups are perceived. For example, years ago, there was a consensus in America that AIDS was a disease that only affected gay people and drug users.
Lobbyists, and AIDS advocates over the years have generally changed that perception, along with the efforts of those who represent that community in their day to day lives.


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## CastingPearls (May 7, 2010)

Preston said:


> Actually, yeah, I would. Acting like we're any different than other people only serves to further segregate us.
> 
> I like large women. I also like tacos. Does the taco-eating community have a Night-Line special forthcoming? The media is a flawed creature that serves us little to no purpose.


We ARE different insomuch as we're discriminated against, excluded and stereotyped. 

At some point as ideas and consideration of acceptance (I prefer respect to authorization, myself) are pushed to the forefront, this nation is getting fatter and fatter everyday, there will be individuals put forth BY THE MEDIA as leaders of the SA 'movement'.

As SuperO suggested (and I agree w/Mossy that her posts should be given serious consideration) it is imperative those individuals be media savvy because media is guaranteed to bring forward vociforous opposition (MeMe Roth immediately springs to mind) for ratings. Media has its own agenda and it's certainly NOT philanthropic.

But who are those individuals? Will they want to speak for us or just represent their own agenda? (as many argue CP is doing) 

Our community is a hugely diverse one. I completely see the arguments about it being unnecessary for one to speak for all but the time is coming that like it or not it's going to happen. I also see the argument that this or that group has no representation, but ahhhhh...that's not true...tacos are indirectly supported by agricultural lobbyism and the Latino community most certainly is represented (politics, entertainment, etc.) but is becoming more mainstream...in fact they're the country's largest minority right now. They may need less of a 'representative voice' because as a group they're making so much headway. Less segregation, less exclusion, less discrimination than ever before.

We may need voices (and may need to choose them before media chooses caricatures for us) whether we like it or not.


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## Tau (May 7, 2010)

I think that, in terms of certain forms of representation, we're not doing so badly. We have amazing representation in the academic and artistic world - books, blogs, photography, songs - all about fat living and fat loving and we're slowly making inroads into the world of fashion. And these forms of representation are fantastic but inevitably those who care will look and be moved and those who don't will just shrug and walk away, determined to continue demonising fat. I don't think, in those facets of the world, we could really push fat acceptance much further without some kind of real _political_ leadership influencing change in legislation. We need intelligent, savvy, political individuals speaking the pro-fat agenda where it matters - not just on the radio or on television - but in government departments that make the rules. Do these people exist? Do we have any volunteers?? Are we, as a fat community, unified and organised and serious enough to take the actions that will see laws being made and changed that will be better for our community??

Fat is not yet a poltical agenda in my country - mostly because everybody in parliament is a fatty  but that doesn't mean I personally am going to chill waiting for it to get ugly. I'm doing my damndest to get my fat ass back into politics because that's where the power lies, that's where the real decisions that influence every facet of our lives are made, and that's where we need to be sitting if we really want to see any change.


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## wrestlingguy (May 7, 2010)

collared Princess said:


> Look truth of the matter is, Ive bumbled my way through life .Ive always done what I felt and always said what I thought ..that is just the way IM made up..5 years ago when I was in dim's fat and gaining chat, I had no idea that my convictions or idea's would put me in the spot light of the media..I had no clue..you can belive that or not but it is the truth..I do what I want to do..always have..Im a very sensitive person who would give just about anything for a friend or someone who needs anything.You dont see that side of me..others do..I realise my life is very controversial and I havent even begun to talk about my past and life experiences..All I can say is that IM here in the media whether Im a nutcase or a genus or stupid or whatever..Im here with alot of things set up for the very near future..all I can do is give advice on what I think anyone can do..Im sorry that Im not the perfect person to be in the limelight but you must understand ,thats not what the media wants..Im sorry..I wish I could be this strong wonderful speaker who glides right into things gracefully instead Im a bumbling idiot who wakes up in strange places.Philippe has the poise to make me look half way normal.His back ground being the son of a diplomat,going to Ivy leauge schools and going to school with Barack Obama..suddenly I dont seem so crazy I guess.This is all I have to offer you guys..please jump on if you want to..jump on the crazy train



Donna, I'm going to respectfully ask as your friend to try to refrain from adding anymore to this thread. My original post was to garner names from the community who could be called upon to enter the media as a representative for the very diverse community, simply because it seemed so many were against YOU specifically doing just that.

By posting in this thread, the focus again becomes you, and defeats the purpose of the thread.

I will start another thread in the near future to specifically discuss how I feel you've been "treated" in Dimensions, by both posters and moderators, what I think of the FA's that have been so vocal in your noteriety, and my own feelings on your "opportunity". That however, is not the purpose of this thread.


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## collared Princess (May 7, 2010)

You know honestly..you guys do have a spokesperson..its Philippe..I personally dont know anyone who is more elegant in speech.He does many public speaking events at High schools ,collages etc..

Our interview with ET wich is on tonight..you will see how his main agenda is more the political side of fat acceptance..those of you who know Philippe know what I mean..We are just now slowly introducing Philippe into the media..you will see him tonight.if you want to see him that is


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## collared Princess (May 7, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> Donna, I'm going to respectfully ask as your friend to try to refrain from adding anymore to this thread. My original post was to garner names from the community who could be called upon to enter the media as a representative for the very diverse community, simply because it seemed so many were against YOU specifically doing just that.
> 
> By posting in this thread, the focus again becomes you, and defeats the purpose of the thread.
> 
> I will start another thread in the near future to specifically discuss how I feel you've been "treated" in Dimensions, by both posters and moderators, what I think of the FA's that have been so vocal in your noteriety, and my own feelings on your "opportunity". That however, is not the purpose of this thread.



ok cool!!!


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## CastingPearls (May 7, 2010)

collared Princess said:


> You know honestly..you guys do have a spokesperson..its Philippe..I personally dont know anyone who is more elegant in speech.He does many public speaking events at High schools ,collages etc..
> 
> Our interview with ET wich is on tonight..you will see how his main agenda is more the political side of fat acceptance..those of you who know Philippe know what I mean..We are just now slowly introducing Philippe into the media..you will see him tonight.if you want to see him that is


He may represent some FA's but not the interests of BBW and SSBBW.


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> That's a theory, simply because no one has ever stepped up to represent any part of this diverse community.
> 
> Plus, spokespeople for other groups have had some success in changing how those groups are perceived. For example, years ago, there was a consensus in America that AIDS was a disease that only affected gay people and drug users.
> Lobbyists, and AIDS advocates over the years have generally changed that perception, along with the efforts of those who represent that community in their day to day lives.



thats pretty much true. i don't remember too many people the general public ever really knew the name of. there was a little headway back in the late 70s and early 80s. but since then i've heard nearly nothing-- not even a PSA. if black people had sat around hand wringing, waiting for society to make nice i'd still be wearing a kerchief and carrying a broom right now. its a civil rights human rights issue and it takes some action other than just being good.


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## cinnamitch (May 7, 2010)

collared Princess said:


> You know honestly..you guys do have a spokesperson..its Philippe..I personally dont know anyone who is more elegant in speech.He does many public speaking events at High schools ,collages etc..
> 
> Our interview with ET wich is on tonight..you will see how his main agenda is more the political side of fat acceptance..those of you who know Philippe know what I mean..We are just now slowly introducing Philippe into the media..you will see him tonight.if you want to see him that is



Why would a fat woman need a man to represent her and the issues and such in her day to day life? No matter how much of an FA they are, they are not the fat person, they do not live in their skin. They can only see it from their side of the coin and TRY to imagine them being in the same boat. It isn't the same thing at all.


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## wrestlingguy (May 7, 2010)

cinnamitch said:


> Why would a fat woman need a man to represent her and the issues and such in her day to day life? No matter how much of an FA they are, they are not the fat person, they do not live in their skin. They can only see it from their side of the coin and TRY to imagine them being in the same boat. It isn't the same thing at all.



So, my question to you then, would be why would a fat man need a woman to represent HIM and the issues in HIS day to day life? No matter how much of an FA they are, they aren't the fat person, they don't live in their skin.

The sex shouldn't matter in terms of who represents a community, even one that is based on body type.

As an aside, having had several long term relationships with fat women, and being married to a SSBBW, I've had to help them when they've fallen and couldn't get up, I've seen and felt the ridicule they've had to put up with, and when you love someone, you feel their pain as if it's your own.

Based on your statement, I should be excluded from representing you, since I've never lived in your skin, correct?


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## cinnamitch (May 7, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> So, my question to you then, would be why would a fat man need a woman to represent HIM and the issues in HIS day to day life? No matter how much of an FA they are, they aren't the fat person, they don't live in their skin.
> 
> The sex shouldn't matter in terms of who represents a community, even one that is based on body type.
> 
> ...



Well Phil personally for me i don't need anyone representing me. I think people have a great ability to think and speak for themselves and what they believe in and stand for. Sometimes there are folks who do that by just living their lives by their standards. We can have supporters, believers but not a representative. We are our own best representatives for better or worse. No group is perfect and to try to paint it in anything other than a truthful honest way is not doing anyone a favor. So yeah i am all for people coming out and saying we are ok people, we aren't some kind of crazy fatties if they want to show support, but if we have to resort to being legitimatized by "the better representatives", then what good did we really do?

CP is a part of size acceptance, albeit a more colorful and more out there side than some would find comfortable so she is showing it takes all kinds to make up our fat world, so hmm maybe we are just like everyone else after all huh?


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

cinnamitch said:


> Well Phil personally for me i don't need anyone representing me. I think people have a great ability to think and speak for themselves and what they believe in and stand for. Sometimes there are folks who do that by just living their lives by their standards. We can have supporters, believers but not a representative. We are our own best representatives for better or worse. No group is perfect and to try to paint it in anything other than a truthful honest way is not doing anyone a favor. So yeah i am all for people coming out and saying we are ok people, we aren't some kind of crazy fatties if they want to show support, but if we have to resort to being legitimatized by "the better representatives", then what good did we really do?
> 
> CP is a part of size acceptance, albeit a more colorful and more out there side than some would find comfortable so she is showing it takes all kinds to make up our fat world, so hmm maybe we are just like everyone else after all huh?



good post. i couldn't rep you. its not that some FA/FFAs couldn't make good representatives but more like maybe they shouldn't especially when fat people are trying to appear powerful in their own right. i agree that its better that people who aren't fat are supporters. i know it doesn't sound fair but does caring about the community deeply mean that you must head it. sometimes it takes just as much effort if not more to step back even when you badly want to be out front throwing your back into it. it was a hard choice made during the civil rights movement as well. the panthers, the NAACP, SCLC, the National Urban League etc... had a lot of wonderful support from the outside. people had literally lain down their lives with and for us. it was a really big issue with the Jewish community who had been with us from the very beginning especially in the NAACP where they were founding members and beneficiaries of some of the initial strides. and when things had improved for them swore they wouldn't let what happened to them in Germany happen to us here. what they did was beautiful. but at some point if black people were ever going to be seen as competent they needed to prove they could direct the movement on their own. otherwise they never would have gotten respect as full human beings who deserved or were capable of having rights.


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## wrestlingguy (May 7, 2010)

cinnamitch said:


> Well Phil personally for me i don't need anyone representing me. I think people have a great ability to think and speak for themselves and what they believe in and stand for. Sometimes there are folks who do that by just living their lives by their standards. We can have supporters, believers but not a representative. We are our own best representatives for better or worse. No group is perfect and to try to paint it in anything other than a truthful honest way is not doing anyone a favor. So yeah i am all for people coming out and saying we are ok people, we aren't some kind of crazy fatties if they want to show support, but if we have to resort to being legitimatized by "the better representatives", then what good did we really do?
> 
> CP is a part of size acceptance, albeit a more colorful and more out there side than some would find comfortable so she is showing it takes all kinds to make up our fat world, so hmm maybe we are just like everyone else after all huh?



I agree with most of this.

First, I respect that some people can stand on their own without any person(s) representing them. Those strong people can change the world as they go through life, a person at a time.

So, then I must ask, are all fat people as strong as you? Just here in Dimensions, we read countless posts about how people felt that they were alone in their "struggles", and then came hear and realized there were others in the same boat. Who represents the fat woman on welfare who gets chastised for her weight by her doctor and possibly gets turned down for care because of her weight, and can't afford internet to realize that she has rights and alternatives?

How about the fat man who's ridiculed at the beach, told to cover up by the jock athletes 30 feet away from him?

How about the FA who feels he has to hide, simply because he hasn't come to here, or some of the other forums, and met a guy like me who is almost militant in my preference for fat women in my life?

Where I hit the fork in the road with your logic is where you say what good is accomplished if we are legitimized by the "better representative". Seriously, look at the world around us today. We have rock stars, athletes, and actors that have become active in political and world causes. Are they the "best representative" for those causes, simply due to being famous? Can they discuss those issues with the knowledge that those who live those causes can?

I think not, but while watching a nut case like Angelina Jolie talk about her involvement in the Afghanistan Relief Organization, I still think that somehow, somewhere, there's a person who no longer thinks that the ARO is a radical extremist group, simply because their favorite actress is affiliated with it. That said, they reach out to a larger slice of the world than you or I can individually, as we simply go through our lives.


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## exile in thighville (May 7, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i guess what you're are talking about would represent you well but it wouldn't represent the fat community well in what it truly needs



excluding FAs from your purview of the "fat community" means take it up with someone else. you're writing essay after essay refuting me for some reason - i named guys because they represent my slice of the community. i don't particularly care who represents yours but i hope they're good.

it's great to be able to feel good about your body without needing outside validation. but that's immaterial to this discussion because the entire idea of it is about striving to obtain outside validation.


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> excluding FAs from your purview of the "fat community" means take it up with someone else. you're writing essay after essay refuting me for some reason - i named guys because they represent my slice of the community. i don't particularly care who represents yours but i hope they're good.
> 
> it's great to be able to feel good about your body without needing outside validation. but that's immaterial to this discussion because the entire idea of it is about obtaining outside validation.



a) i never said anyone should exclude FAs from the community. just that fat 
people should be at the forefront of their own movement.

b) i responded to your premise that being sexually desirable at a 
bar was somehow the road to social acceptance for fat people and i 
disagreed because i don't feel its about outside validation but about 
human rights and practical political issues. 

c) you asked a question and i answered --long winded as i always am lol. 
hope i avoided that here.


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## exile in thighville (May 7, 2010)

anyway, no, i do not believe a campaign for people to feel sorry for the fat experience is an avenue worth a shit.

unrepresented sexuality, incompetent doctors and anti-fat legislation are worth making a fuss about.


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## butch (May 7, 2010)

Honestly, there have been people doing this for a long time, representing us in the public eye, and the fact that nobody is mentioning them suggest perhaps that the non-sensational fat activists don't appeal to the media, who provide the spotlight. How we change that, I don't know.


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

butch said:


> Honestly, there have been people doing this for a long time, representing us in the public eye, and the fact that nobody is mentioning them suggest perhaps that the non-sensational fat activists don't appeal to the media, who provide the spotlight. How we change that, I don't know.



yep. nobody cares about them because they feel they are boring.


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## exile in thighville (May 7, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> b) i responded to your premise that being sexually desirable at a
> bar was somehow the road to social acceptance for fat people and i
> disagreed because i don't feel its about outside validation but about
> human rights and practical political issues



all right, then i'll respond to that: being sexually desirable at a bar is normal. normalcy is what i believe fat people are striving for. if you don't like that example, then wearing a bikini. dancing professionally. anything social and sexual that backs up a person's own alibi that they're beautiful. people should not be surprised that a majority of the population can find romance or get laid. and a majority should not be shut out by a vocal minority that operates on fear.


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## wrestlingguy (May 7, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> excluding FAs from your purview of the "fat community" means take it up with someone else. you're writing essay after essay refuting me for some reason - i named guys because they represent my slice of the community. i don't particularly care who represents yours but i hope they're good.
> 
> it's great to be able to feel good about your body without needing outside validation. but that's immaterial to this discussion because the entire idea of it is about striving to obtain outside validation.



I agree with you, Dan.

Were the white people who worked so diligently during the civil rights movement over the years somehow diminished simply because of their color?
Viola Liuzzo died in Alabama driving civil rights activists throughout the state and was murdered by the Klan. Ann Braden, a white woman, dedicated her life to the work of Civil Rights. She was vocal and outspoken, and an excellent spokesperson for Civil Rights. What about John F. Kennedy, who also was a fair spokesperson for the movement?

That argument is similar to telling a doctor that he can't cure a cancer patient because he's never had cancer.


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## wrestlingguy (May 7, 2010)

butch said:


> Honestly, there have been people doing this for a long time, representing us in the public eye, and the fact that nobody is mentioning them suggest perhaps that the non-sensational fat activists don't appeal to the media, who provide the spotlight. How we change that, I don't know.



Butch, how about getting someone who is both articulate, passionate, and sensational as well?


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## exile in thighville (May 7, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> yep. nobody cares about them because they feel they are boring.



they probably _are_ boring.


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## CastingPearls (May 7, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> Butch, how about getting someone who is both articulate, passionate, and sensational as well?


I would have to add IMO, KEEPING MEDIA IN MIND, intellectually shrewd, charming, and conventionally beautiful/handsome.


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## KHayes666 (May 7, 2010)

Imagine me and my band performing Big Girls Are Better in the Boston Garden.....


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## butch (May 7, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> Butch, how about getting someone who is both articulate, passionate, and sensational as well?



I personally think Marilyn Wann and Charlotte Cooper fit the mold, but they are by no means the only folks I think of who should deserve more media attention on behalf of SA.


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## exile in thighville (May 7, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> I agree with you, Dan.
> 
> Were the white people who worked so diligently during the civil rights movement over the years somehow diminished simply because of their color?
> Viola Liuzzo died in Alabama driving civil rights activists throughout the state and was murdered by the Klan. Ann Braden, a white woman, dedicated her life to the work of Civil Rights. She was vocal and outspoken, and an excellent spokesperson for Civil Rights. What about John F. Kennedy, who also was a fair spokesperson for the movement?
> ...



right. it seems like there's no way to not sound like an asshole by insisting YOU NEED US but isn't this all about needing EVERYONE on your side?

do FAs legitimize the movement? no, the injustices do. but the FAs legitimize the superficial side of it, and half of the Problem deals with the superficial.

if fat is beautiful, we prove it is. we prove it's possible to prefer fat over other types of beauty. fat is attractive in so many places and ways simultaneously - and it's being rewarded for its beauty in households everywhere! - and yet nothing in the media reflects this ongoing reality partly out of cynical disdain but also out of genuine lack of awareness that it exists. that's a story. that's news. doctors citing their expertise as an excuse to refuse to do their job. that's news. 

here's what's not news: fat people have a shitty time in the world, feeling sorry for fat people, one anomaly telling any newspaper who will listen that they want to weigh 1000 lbs.


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## wrestlingguy (May 7, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> I would have to add IMO, KEEPING MEDIA IN MIND, intellectually shrewd, charming, and conventionally beautiful/handsome.



This is the most excellent point made in the thread, IMO, and I think it also casts some light on why there's been so much heat on CP, and her attempt to use the media to cast some light on "the cause"

I'm going to take some of the FA's who flamed Donna in the now closed thread to task for doing so. I have a couple of theories about why some of that took place.

First, I think that they're upset with the fact that this self proclaimed "spokesperson" isn't the bubbly, fluffy, almost dreamlike webmodel that they fantasize about isn't given that opportunity. There are many feedees, and gainers who are in the community. I'm gonna make the accusation that for some of these guys, had the person been Heather, or Gaining Goddess, the outpouring of dislike wouldn't have taken place.

Second, I think for many of them, the community is still a secret, and they'd love to keep it that way. Donna is calling a lot of attention to the community, and some of these so called "FA's" are afraid they're going to get called out by friends and family. It's almost like the closet homosexual that engages in gay bashing himself, just so he doesn't get discovered. Donna is pissing in their Cheerios, and they don't like that either. To me, these guys are gutless, and should continue to read and learn in Dimensions and other websites before they open their mouths.

It makes me embarrassed at times to be associated with the same guys we call FA's in this community.


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> all right, then i'll respond to that: being sexually desirable at a bar is normal. normalcy is what i believe fat people are striving for. if you don't like that example, then wearing a bikini. dancing professionally. anything social and sexual that backs up a person's own alibi that they're beautiful. people should not be surprised that a majority of the population can find romance or get laid. and a majority should not be shut out by a vocal minority that operates on fear.



those are great aims and they all benefit you too but it still isn't everything that fat people need or are composed of. if you'd actually read my post you'd see that i never totally disagreed with any of that. just that i don't think it should be the main focus. besides this sexual desirability thing has been happening during the development of the entire community all along and has gotten us nearly nowhere publicly or societally. its not as if it hadn't been done before. people have the bashes to go to to get introduced to the bar scene and bikini wearing and dancing etc... there's probably been enough of that to last people who've been around for a while several lifetimes. creating a duplicate party culture isn't going to advance SA any further, just get us more episodes on shows like taboo. all we've really had to do in that respect over the years is to finally open up and invite people who aren't fat to our events openly and publicly at least sometimes. but we've been afraid and we haven't wanted to. nobody wanted to take the risk. so how would it be any better in an SA context with people who don't even want to be photoed in the a pool and sometimes not even attending a bash. if the public isn't exposed to fat people as sexual beings its not their fault. and the need to "show" everyone else that you are sexual can also be a problem as well at the wrong times and the wrong circumstances. all of this "show " of sexuality has lost people jobs etc... the only real proof that you have that you are beautiful is when you can look into a mirror and truly believe it for yourself. some conventionally gorgeous woman have been told so by others their entire lives and still don't believe it inside. so what good has it done them? trying too hard has its drawbacks but repeating the same stale old formulas are even worse.

i just don't understand why its so important for BBWs and BHMs to show they are sexual beings when its somehow so inappropriate for Donna to do just that in public? that sounds conflicted. its like wrestlinguy said. maybe its more about who gets to choose who is sexually desirable. is it the woman herself or should it all be up to FAs just in case she might be an embarrassment to them?


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## superodalisque (May 7, 2010)

for the record. i'm fat i don't feel "shitty in the world". in fact, i enjoy myself quite a lot and i already go to bars etc... i have been unashamedly even before i knew about the community. in fact thats where i'm going right now. cya


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## Angel (May 7, 2010)

collared Princess said:


> Look truth of the matter is, Ive bumbled my way through life .Ive always done what I felt and always said what I thought ..that is just the way IM made up..5 years ago when I was in dim's fat and gaining chat, I had no idea that my convictions or idea's would put me in the spot light of the media..I had no clue..you can belive that or not but it is the truth..I do what I want to do..always have..Im a very sensitive person who would give just about anything for a friend or someone who needs anything.You dont see that side of me..others do..I realise my life is very controversial and I havent even begun to talk about my past and life experiences..All I can say is that IM here in the media whether Im a nutcase or a genus or stupid or whatever..Im here with alot of things set up for the very near future..all I can do is give advice on what I think anyone can do..Im sorry that Im not the perfect person to be in the limelight but you must understand ,thats not what the media wants..Im sorry..I wish I could be this strong wonderful speaker who glides right into things gracefully instead Im a bumbling idiot who wakes up in strange places.Philippe has the poise to make me look half way normal.His back ground being the son of a diplomat,going to Ivy leauge schools and going to school with Barack Obama..suddenly I dont seem so crazy I guess.This is all I have to offer you guys..please jump on if you want to..jump on the crazy train



Donna is right about one thing. The media, especially tabloid type media programs, isn't interested in perfect people. They're not even interested in featuring a spokesperson for any specific cause. Seriously. They want to feature the celebrities that screw up their lives. They want to feature the not-as-normal so that general society can continue to feel that they are somehow better or not as crazy as famous so-and-so. They want to continue to give society in general what they want: a reasonable excuse to justify all the negative stereotypes. Television tabloid media isn't in business to change minds or perceptions or even to enlighten. Their purpose is entertainment. Entertaining the masses. And making money while doing so. As long as people continue to play into their hands (_their_ being entertainment media) and give them exactly the kind of footage they are looking for........ the stereotype continues to be fed. And nothing will change or ever get better.


We've all heard the saying _you can't teach an old dog a new trick_. Adults have already formed their basic opinions. They may mellow some with age, but their basic views will remain the same through out their life time. The young, on the other hand, can be greatly influenced. If you want to influence a young mind, the best time is before the age of 19. 

I was a teenager from the mid 70s to the early 80s. Then and when in my 20s I knew of a few people who were lesbian or gay. Back then they tried to keep their lifestyle private because general society wasn't very accepting. There were two local night clubs where they felt comfortable being themselves. Even when among family they couldn't be themselves. I know some of what they went through; what they experienced. It wasn't pretty. 

I remember watching some program in the early 90s on MTV. It was one of the first shows of what is now known as reality tv. A bunch of teenagers living together in one house. A weekly show. One of the participants was gay. I remember thinking then how that program was going to change the perceptions of many young people. And it did. I think a lot of the acceptance of today among the younger generations has its roots in that type of programing. 

The days of Phil D are gone. The talk show route and the tabloid type programing won't reach those who can change the world or reach those who will soon be our next leaders, movers, or shakers. If you really want to make a difference and get some perceptions changed, you need to reach out to the youth and the younger generation. You get a decent FA (meaning an FA who treats women with respect and who is more than a guy who only wants fat women for his own sexual gratification) who isn't ashamed of his preferences (and at the same time doesn't come off as a freak) on one of the reality shows catering to the younger generation and you'll see a generation of FAs who won't be ashamed of who they are or ashamed of the women they find attractive. And young BBW will end up feeling more attractive and worthy and not so alone. 


It's gonna take someone who is _*real*_ and _*genuine*_. Not someone into just the attention and hype. Not someone who makes up stories to get attention. Not just a self serving escapade. A _*real role model*_. Someone that we can all be proud of.


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## CastingPearls (May 7, 2010)

Angel said:


> Donna is right about one thing. The media, especially tabloid type media programs, isn't interested in perfect people. They're not even interested in featuring a spokesperson for any specific cause. Seriously. They want to feature the celebrities that screw up their lives. They want to feature the not-as-normal so that general society can continue to feel that they are somehow better or not as crazy as famous so-and-so. They want to continue to give society in general what they want: a reasonable excuse to justify all the negative stereotypes. Television tabloid media isn't in business to change minds or perceptions or even to enlighten. Their purpose is entertainment. Entertaining the masses. And making money while doing so. As long as people continue to play into their hands (_their_ being entertainment media) and give them exactly the kind of footage they are looking for........ the stereotype continues to be fed. And nothing will change or ever get better.
> 
> 
> We've all heard the saying _you can't teach an old dog a new trick_. Adults have already formed their basic opinions. They may mellow some with age, but their basic views will remain the same through out their life time. The young, on the other hand, can be greatly influenced. If you want to influence a young mind, the best time is before the age of 19.
> ...


Agreed. Media will give almost anyone jumping up and down attention. 

But is attention what the SA community wants most or RESPECT?

I hate to use the word 'side show' because of how cruelly it was used in other threads but from media point of view-the attention grabbers are just that--a side show--in any form--not just SA. How many celebrities are out there that are known for NOTHING except being celebrities--Paris Hilton anyone? She represents no one except if you can't be a good example then strive to be a horrible warning.

If we're throwing out ideas of our ideal representatives (and there must be more than one and I think FAs should not be excluded) then that person must be respectable and have class. Since fat people are still acceptable targets for ridicule the most damage-controlling representatives still have to be as socially acceptable as possible to begin with because that's the only way media will take the movement seriously.


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## Angel (May 7, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> This is the most excellent point made in the thread, IMO, and I think it also casts some light on why there's been so much heat on CP, and her attempt to use the media to cast some light on "the cause"
> 
> I'm going to take some of the FA's who flamed Donna in the now closed thread to task for doing so. I have a couple of theories about why some of that took place.
> 
> ...



I just want to say something here. There is a reason why some of these guys (and some of the females) have reacted the way they have. There is history that started long before someone ever began posting on the forums. Everything that you have read on the forums isn't exactly accurate. Sometimes people paint themselves into a corner and either continue with their charades or tell so many stories that they have completely forgotten the truth as to their beginnings at Dimensions. And when you add tabloid media handing out money and food and... the attention factor.... well....... the charades will continue.


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## LoveBHMS (May 7, 2010)

A while ago i used to frequent a child free by choice message board, and one poster asked about having a convention or meetup. The moderator said that it would not work for the same reason it would not work to have a convention of customers who bought the same brand of shampoo. They don't have anything in common apart from the shampoo.

i think it would be weird, pointless, and ultimately defeatist to have a "spokesperson". Fat men/women are not monolithic and neither are FA/FFA. Nobody can speak for all fatties or all FA. There are probably FA/FFA who'd never even think to spend two seconds on Dims or FF; they just know what they like. There are fat people who like themselvs, hate themselves, pose for paysites, and hide themselves away wrapped in yards of canvas. There is no right or wrong, no good or bad fatties. There are FA with "Fat Chicks Only" t-shirts and FA who think wearing a t-shirt proclaiming your sexuality would be silly. 

i see way way WAY too much grandstanding on this site about who is a good FA and bad FA, with the "good" being how vocal one is. Everyone just needs to lead his or her own life in a way that works for you. 

CP can't and doesn't speak for me but neither does anyone else.


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## wrestlingguy (May 7, 2010)

LoveBHMS said:


> i think it would be weird, pointless, and ultimately defeatist to have a "spokesperson". Fat men/women are not monolithic and neither are FA/FFA. Nobody can speak for all fatties or all FA.



People outside of our community don't know that, in the same way that they don't know that about the gay community, yet they have spokespeople that present a unified idea about acceptance, and have made headway.


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## CastingPearls (May 7, 2010)

As someone has pointed out, the world IS ready to listen to the SA movement--there are far more of us than ever. We're EVERYWHERE. Pandemic. Viral.
So whether we like it or not the world via media will be looking for representatives. 
Do we get to choose WHO they are? Can we influence that? If we reject who they choose to represent us, does that make us anti-SA? Self-hating fatties and FAs??


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## wrestlingguy (May 7, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> As someone has pointed out, the world IS ready to listen to the SA movement--there are far more of us than ever. We're EVERYWHERE. Pandemic. Viral.
> So whether we like it or not the world via media will be looking for representatives.
> Do we get to choose WHO they are? Can we influence that? If we reject who they choose to represent us, does that make us anti-SA? Self-hating fatties and FAs??



*And isn't that exactly what's happening in this thread?*


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## Slykrug (May 7, 2010)

Once again would NAAFA not meet the basic goals everybody would like?


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## Vespertine (May 7, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> if fat is beautiful, we prove it is. we prove it's possible to prefer fat over other types of beauty. fat is attractive in so many places and ways simultaneously - and it's being rewarded for its beauty in households everywhere! - and yet nothing in the media reflects this ongoing reality partly out of cynical disdain but also out of genuine lack of awareness that it exists.



I don't get it really. Fat women are already sex objects, same as skinny women. Many fat women may be unaware of it, but once they find out, it can be disappointing. Not quite the fairytale we hoped, probably all of us imagined how great life would be if only we were 'attractive'. Ha! This particular equality is utterly useless on its own, but this is the only equality I can be assured of, someone will find me attractive. Big deal, that and two bucks will get me a coffee. 

Fat women need help to understand this more than they need to be told they are beautiful, cos the beauty itself is a simple truth. However it really does come as a surprise at first and that can create bad situations easily, I've lived it and seen it rampantly. We were not conditioned to know how to deal with the male attention we are bound to get, that is a problem and it won't be fixed by merely telling fat women they are beautiful. Another serious issue is FAs are simply afraid to give that attention when they want to.

Fat women don't feel ugly only because of conditioning about their bodies, they feel ugly cos they're treated like they are JUST bodies, same as ALL women. This is why size acceptance is important, it reveals a common thread for all people but women in particular. We have to move beyond our focus on the body...not individual taste and appreciation, but the unrelenting focus on physicality and beauty being the end-all. 

If anything FAs need to tell each other loudly that they are normal so they can get out and be themselves already. Seriously, furries are more proud and out in the open than FAs, and most people think that's a bit strange. Then fat women realizing they are sexy will take care of itself media involved or no, for whatever use it actually is.


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## bigmac (May 7, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> I agree with most of this.
> 
> First, I respect that some people can stand on their own without any person(s) representing them. Those strong people can change the world as they go through life, a person at a time.
> 
> So, then I must ask, are all fat people as strong as you? Just here in Dimensions, we read countless posts about how people felt that they were alone in their "struggles", and then came hear and realized there were others in the same boat. Who represents the fat woman on welfare who gets chastised for her weight by her doctor and possibly gets turned down for care because of her weight, and can't afford internet to realize that she has rights and alternatives?



A celebrity spokes person's not going the help the timid welfare mom. However, a fat social worker, or doctor, or nurse, or physicians assistant would be well situated to help. Case in point -- fifteen years ago my wife was a 500 pound welfare mom with few prospects. Her social worker reached out to her and convinced her to go to college -- which wasn't easy at 500 pounds -- but she went and graduated with honors. 

Now, as a social worker herself, she gets to repay the favor. Example; about a year ago a rookie social worker removed two kids from their home because she thought they were dangerously fat -- when the parents complained the case was escalated to guess who -- needless to say the kids went home and the fat phobic social work got dressed down by both the department and the dependency court judge.

Some talking head on TV's not going to change things. If fat people want better health care lets encourage people from our community to go to nursing school, pharmacy school, and medical school. Same goes for all the other professions. Sure fat people will face the "have to be twice as good" problem other minorities faced -- but we have to try. 

Its my experience that a lot of fat people self select themselves out of paths to success. We can't wait for someone to make things better for us. We have to each make thing better ourselves.


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## TraciJo67 (May 7, 2010)

Vespertine said:


> I don't get it really. Fat women are already sex objects, same as skinny women. Many fat women may be unaware of it, but once they find out, it can be disappointing. Not quite the fairytale we hoped, probably all of us imagined how great life would be if only we were 'attractive'. Ha! This particular equality is utterly useless on its own, but this is the only equality I can be assured of, someone will find me attractive. Big deal, that and two bucks will get me a coffee.
> 
> Fat women need help to understand this more than they need to be told they are beautiful, cos the beauty itself is a simple truth. However it really does come as a surprise at first and that can create bad situations easily, I've lived it and seen it rampantly. We were not conditioned to know how to deal with the male attention we are bound to get, that is a problem and it won't be fixed by merely telling fat women they are beautiful. Another serious issue is FAs are simply afraid to give that attention when they want to.
> 
> ...


 
Yes. This.

While we are inundated with the fiction that the thin, gorgeous women gracing the covers of fashion magazines are normative of beauty, we're also living in reality and I don't think there's many women who haven't managed to attract suitors ... fat or thin. I don't understand the mindset on part of some FA's who seem to think that fat women NEED that stamp of approval regarding their desirability. They have it already, have always had it, and when it's frank objectification rather than one aspect of an admirer's appreciation, it can be downright creepy if not simply unwelcome. 

I may not have had the multiple admirers that my more conventionally attractive friends had; but my very average appearance, and body ranging from chubby to very fat, was more than enough to attract at least some. And so what? I've always been more interested in quality than in quantity. I can't think of one friend of mine -- no matter what her age, size, physical attributes or lack thereof -- who wasn't able to find a date, a companion, a sexual partner, a mate. So I believe that much of what is being suggested by FA's here is pretty much just already preaching to the choir. I'm also not comfortable with equating fat admiration with any kind of fat acceptance. The two are worlds apart, for all of the reasons that SuperO has already so eloquently provided. And I agree, it should be required reading.


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## exile in thighville (May 7, 2010)

Vespertine said:


> If anything FAs need to tell each other loudly that they are normal so they can get out and be themselves already. Seriously, furries are more proud and out in the open than FAs, and most people think that's a bit strange. Then fat women realizing they are sexy will take care of itself media involved or no, for whatever use it actually is.



the short answer to this is because fat is not just any stigma, it's politicized as a class issue (and by extension race), a health emergency, lower income, ugliness, unhappiness, carelessness. furries are considered weird but there's not all these weighty (no pun) attachments. fat is considered the world's nightmare and the fear that it can happen to anyone rules a big chunk of our economy, particularly the pharmaceutical, magazine, fashion and diet industries.

it's impossible to me to remove fat acceptance from fat sexuality acceptance, and what your post and supero's are missing from my post is that the valid non-sexual points of the movement you're bringing up are _covered for already_, many times over.


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## exile in thighville (May 7, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> besides this sexual desirability thing has been happening during the development of the entire community all along and has gotten us nearly nowhere publicly or societally. its not as if it hadn't been done before. people have the bashes to go to to get introduced to the bar scene and bikini wearing and dancing etc... there's probably been enough of that to last people who've been around for a while several lifetimes.



none of this is particularly newsworthy or public. this is what i'm trying to say to you, to stpldn, etc...we are not thinking outside of our little box very well or enough. but it's also out of our hands. what we need is not necessarily something we may ever get.

as for the second part of your post, just reposting something i said elsewhere:



> just as nearly all black people would not agree to go on tv in blackface and eat watermelon in front of a live studio audience by now - and this is important - AND THAT NETWORKS ARE SO AWARE OF THIS THAT THEY WOULD NEVER ASK SOMEONE TO DO IT - that is the level of respect i want to see fat people get to. and that will not happen unless fools stop going on TV.


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## LisaInNC (May 7, 2010)

Ok fine...I hear you people crying out for me...I will stand up and represent the fat community. I expect to be paid in twinkies. kthx


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## Fat Brian (May 7, 2010)

The only thing I want is someone who will eat Meme Roth. Just grab her bony ass up and bite her in two. Whoever does this I will follow them to hell and back.

Seriously though, too many so called SA reps act too apologetic for the existence of fat people. I want someone who won't just say "some people have health problems" or "some people don't have many healthy food options". While both are true to some degree they are excuses and steal our power, they make us look like victims of teh evul fahtz. 

I want someone who does not apologize for their existence. I want someone who says "fuck you, we don't want to be like you". We need to stop begging others indulgence for overlooking our fat and demand respect the way we are. We need to stop acting like we have a disease and celebrate our life. We could really learn a lot from the gay community but first we have to get fat people comfortable enough in their own skin to come out as fat and proud.


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## CastingPearls (May 7, 2010)

Fat Brian said:


> The only thing I want is someone who will eat Meme Roth. Just grab her bony ass up and bite her in two. Whoever does this I will follow them to hell and back.
> 
> Seriously though, too many so called SA reps act too apologetic for the existence of fat people. I want someone who won't just say "some people have health problems" or "some people don't have many healthy food options". While both are true to some degree they are excuses and steal our power, they make us look like victims of teh evul fahtz.
> 
> I want someone who does not apologize for their existence. I want someone who says "fuck you, we don't want to be like you". We need to stop begging others indulgence for overlooking our fat and demand respect the way we are. We need to stop acting like we have a disease and celebrate our life. We could really learn a lot from the gay community but first we have to get fat people comfortable enough in their own skin to come out as fat and proud.


I couldn't rep you for this but wanted to. 
Not interested in reasoning.
Not interesting in apologizing.
Don't need your fucking approval.
I'm not your dancing monkey.
Respect me because I'm a human being. Just. Like. You. Period.


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## wrestlingguy (May 7, 2010)

People FIRST.....*then* we're fat people, and people who like/are attracted to fat people.

That's what I want the rest of the world to know.


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## Vespertine (May 8, 2010)

TraciJo67 said:


> Yes. This.
> 
> While we are inundated with the fiction that the thin, gorgeous women gracing the covers of fashion magazines are normative of beauty, we're also living in reality and I don't think there's many women who haven't managed to attract suitors ... fat or thin. I don't understand the mindset on part of some FA's who seem to think that fat women NEED that stamp of approval regarding their desirability.



If they carry that attitude, it would seem to me they need the stamp of approval themselves. And thank you. 



exile in thighville said:


> the short answer to this is because fat is not just any stigma, it's politicized as a class issue (and by extension race), a health emergency, lower income, ugliness, unhappiness, carelessness. furries are considered weird but there's not all these weighty (no pun) attachments. fat is considered the world's nightmare and the fear that it can happen to anyone rules a big chunk of our economy, particularly the pharmaceutical, magazine, fashion and diet industries.



 You're telling _me_?



> it's impossible to me to remove fat acceptance from fat sexuality acceptance, and what your post and supero's are missing from my post is that the valid non-sexual points of the movement you're bringing up are _covered for already_, many times over.



It can be covered again from a different point of view, mine is still valid thanks. I'm terribly sorry, but FAs have no excuse to hide at this point. I live the world's nightmare, if you love it, then you have to step up and say so. Preferably to each other, cos I find the same psychological set-ups in lots of guys I've run across in the community, and anecdotal evidence suggests its epidemic. Talk to each other. Please. That's what I'm saying. Cos you can deal with the world coming down on you if you have support, that's what fat women have been doing for decades, the same fat women that really don't need approval on sexuality at this point because it's been _covered already_.


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## exile in thighville (May 8, 2010)

Vespertine said:


> mine is still valid thanks.



alas, you don't have a mass audience.


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## Preston (May 8, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> People FIRST.....*then* we're fat people, and people who like/are attracted to fat people.
> 
> That's what I want the rest of the world to know.



That's what I've been trying to say all along.


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## moore2me (May 8, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> yeah, but unlike the gays, our cause has a lot of visible talk and no action,
> 
> *Tell me about it.*
> 
> ...



*Picking up men in bars is not an option for this girl. (Did that risky behavior a few times until a few events changed my mind. The movie Waiting For Mr. Goodbar came out based on an a teacher getting murdered by doing just that. My cousin, a professional bouncer, was nearly beaten to death outside of a bar. At the end of the attack, the brutes kicked him in the head three or four times and fractured his jaw on both sides of his face. If he wasn't safe, ole spastic me never would be. And finally, I realized the choice men were not drinking in a bar most nights. * 



exile in thighville said:


> i echoed butch about the ones who will be speaking at the panel. but it's not the same cause as mine. i don't know what the women want represented so i'll let them decide. i picked guys who can articulate my perspective.
> 
> *A couple of times, this woman wanted a simple answer to one of your posts. Never came. I finally figured it out myself. I wasn't being sarcastic or setting a trap, I honestly did not understand the information. But, it was a small thing and is now a moot point.*
> 
> additionally, fat people and females _already have_ spokespeople and public figure role models so it's less pertinent to me. from gabourey to camryn manheim to beth ditto, the industry is loaded with those success stories. there's not one success story with a famous person being open about his love or lust for fat partners. i'd like to be able to point to someone who legitimizes that we're not subcultural, because i don't believe that we are.



*Again, I thought this thread was to search for positive representatives, not looking for love.*



exile in thighville said:


> anyway, no, i do not believe a campaign for people to feel sorry for the fat experience is an avenue worth a shit. unrepresented sexuality, incompetent doctors and anti-fat legislation are worth making a fuss about.



*If we want to reach out to the average taxpayer in the world, we really need to align our goals more with what John and Jane Does goals are. Examples might be  the need for affordable healthcare, the need to find competent doctors, the need to find gainful employment, the need for our children to have good schools, with good teachers, and in safe & healthy communities. Also, the need to adhere to a moral code and a social code that protects human dignity should be important to the group.*



exile in thighville said:


> all right, then i'll respond to that: being sexually desirable at a bar is normal. *(Maybe normal for a unmarried young male).* normalcy is what i believe fat people are striving for. if you don't like that example, then wearing a bikini. dancing professionally. *(is this something men should do?)* anything social and sexual that backs up a person's own alibi that they're beautiful. people should not be surprised that a majority of the population can find romance or get laid. *(plus, add $$$$)* and a majority should not be shut out by a vocal minority that operates on fear * (or rational adult thought). *





exile in thighville said:


> right. it seems like there's no way to not sound like an asshole by insisting YOU NEED US but isn't this all about needing EVERYONE on your side? do FAs legitimize the movement? no, the injustices do. but the FAs legitimize the superficial side of it, and half of the Problem deals with the superficial. . . . .



*My idea of a superficial problem in the fat community is finding a chair that is comfortable and supports my butt - and finding a seat belt that fits - and finding a bra that fits - and making a comfortable living working at a tolerable job - and being able to afford air conditioning - and keeping my pets healthy and content.*



exile in thighville said:


> the short answer to this is because fat is not just any stigma, it's politicized as a class issue (and by extension race), a health emergency, lower income, ugliness, unhappiness, carelessness. furries are considered weird but there's not all these weighty (no pun) attachments. fat is considered the world's nightmare and the fear that it can happen to anyone rules a big chunk of our economy, particularly the pharmaceutical, magazine, fashion and diet industries.
> 
> *Actually, there are parts of the world that have nightmares much more horrifying than being fat. This includes famine & starvation, disease, rape, genocide, earthquakes & floods.*
> 
> it's impossible to me to remove fat acceptance from fat sexuality acceptance, and what your post and supero's are missing from my post is that the valid non-sexual points of the movement you're bringing up are _covered for already_, many times over.



*Me thinks this is not a community issue, but a more personal or localized issue within a randy subgroup of unattached males.*



wrestlingguy said:


> That's a theory, simply because no one has ever stepped up to represent any part of this diverse community.
> Plus, spokespeople for other groups have had some success in changing how those groups are perceived. For example, years ago, there was a consensus in America that AIDS was a disease that only affected gay people and drug users.



*Actually, when the virus that causes AIDS first emerged in the US it was listed publically by the CDC as affecting four groups. Two of them were the ones you listed (changed to intrarvenous drug users). The other two were hemophiliacs (needing blood clotting proteins) and the Haitian community.*




collared Princess said:


> You know honestly..you guys do have a spokesperson..its Philippe..I personally dont know anyone who is more elegant in speech.He does many public speaking events at High schools ,collages etc..
> 
> Our interview with ET wich is on tonight..you will see how his main agenda is more the political side of fat acceptance..those of you who know Philippe know what I mean..We are just now slowly introducing Philippe into the media..you will see him tonight.if you want to see him that is



*I think using both of you guys as a tag team spokes-persons would never work in this century. However, since this is just one girl's opinion, I think a poll should be made or a survey conducted to determine what kind of representatives would work best for the fat community. I also think that the survey should include each state & different levels of society. Going international would be optional (however, it would make it much more difficult & expensive).*


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## moniquessbbw (May 8, 2010)

I don't need a rep. I know how to rep myself and feel confident that I know who I am. I don't ever want to be thrown into a group. Looking at me you would instantly say I am African American. Well I am really a West Indian from the US Virgin Islands. So never judge a book by the cover and assume you have all of the answers. Stand up for yourself and stay strong. Never let other people define you. I am not into the weight gain thing and would not be happy if the public thought all fat people were into some fetish. What you do at home is your business but I can speak for myself.

Mo Mo out


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## exile in thighville (May 8, 2010)

> Actually, there are parts of the world that have nightmares much more horrifying than being fat. This includes famine & starvation, disease, rape, genocide, earthquakes & floods.



i feel like you're kind of arguing for the sake of it


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## bigsexy920 (May 8, 2010)

This will sound corny but we all represent the community - We all should live our lives as happy and as positive as we can. We should be productive member of society in some way shape or form just like any other person. 

As for having a spokesperson for the community. I can think of many positive roll models within our community, 

Heather, Lilly, Butch, Ruby Ribbles, AM, So Very Soft ,Phil, Johnny, Clever bomb , I mean the list could go on forever. These are the people that pop into my mind as being well rounded, well spoken and over all positive people.


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## butch (May 8, 2010)

bigsexy920 said:


> This will sound corny but we all represent the community - We all should live our lives as happy and as positive as we can. We should be productive member of society in some way shape or form just like any other person.
> 
> As for having a spokesperson for the community. I can think of many positive roll models within our community,
> 
> Heather, Lilly, Butch, Ruby Ribbles, AM, So Very Soft ,Phil, Johnny, Clever bomb , I mean the list could go on forever. These are the people that pop into my mind as being well rounded, well spoken and over all positive people.



Wow, thanks, B. I appreciate that a lot, especially coming from someone who doesn't just walk the walk, but talks the talk of making life better for fat people and FAs. The work you and Phil do (and Heather and her crew, too) to create appealing social spaces for the fat communtiy is vital, and we all benefit from it. I think a lot of fat activism past, present, and future, come out of the social spaces we make for ourselves, and the NJ Bash is part of that. You're an awesome spokesperson yourself!


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## msbard90 (May 8, 2010)

mossystate said:


> Ok...I shouldn't have told her what I thought of her suggestion. PLease forgive the participating on this message board. Try the chicken...it is really moist.



Okay, you should probably consider being humane to people. The whole badass behind the computer thing doesn't suit you well. Sorry I don't enjoy making people feel like shit. If someone was targeting you and dragging you down on purpose for shits and giggles, I'd defend you as well. Being a bully on the computer must make you feel so big, right????? Right???


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## Webmaster (May 8, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> So I want to go off on a tangent based on the thread that was recently shut down by the mods.
> 
> There still seems to be some resentment over Donna S's original comment that she somehow represents the fat community. Some of the posts in the now closed thread bear this out.
> 
> ...



When I first joined NAAFA in the early 80s, I often wondered why Bill did not take a higher-profile approach to being the spokesperson. He was perfectly able to, but somehow he was, and is, more comfortable to dispense his wisdom in smaller doses and less public venues.

For a while, the role fell on me, and I presented the issues in numerous appearances in the national media. And was involved in political projects in Washington and Albany. But, like Bill, this was not what I like to do best. Besides, an average-sized male is simply not the right image.

Sally was probably the best spokesperson we ever had. I'll never forget her famous appearance on Larry King Live where she was one of the very few that has ever been able to paint Larry into a corner.

Over the years, I often thought about the ideal spokesperson, and whether it should be someone flamboyant with a bop-em-over-the-head approach, or someone more mainstream and business-like. 

There's also longevity. There have been many firebrand personalities that burned brightly but then quickly burned out. That doesn't help. 

Over time, there have been celebrity spokespeople who had little connection to the size acceptance community, but their journey usually ended the next time they found a diet to publicize.

As is, there is no one. To me, the perfect spokesperson would be a combination of the mercurial flamboyance of Marilyn Wann; the dogged persistence of Lynn McAfee; the organizational mind, eloquence and drive of Sally Smith; the amalgamated keen insight of some of the Dimensions community people right here; and sort of an Ed Begley desire to be in the limelight.


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## mossystate (May 8, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> Okay, you should probably consider being humane to people. The whole badass behind the computer thing doesn't suit you well. Sorry I don't enjoy making people feel like shit. If someone was targeting you and dragging you down on purpose for shits and giggles, I'd defend you as well. Being a bully on the computer must make you feel so big, right????? Right???



Yeah, that's me. I am being a " badass " by responding to things someone continues to put out on an internet messageboard. Yup, how dare I think that she should expect feedback like anbody else. I get plenty of feedback after I press that submit button.
You commend the woman for stirring up a lot of controversy ( yes, yes, yes, I know you don't perhaps agree with everything she says, etc, etc, etc ), yet when some people respond with the same conviction......that brings out the flippin' tired Dims cry of bully? It IS a legitimate suggestion that she be ignored. It is A suggestion....just like any other....including yours. You think her being out there the way she is might be beneficial....I disagree, and you better believe me that I will use this space the same way you are using it. I realize you just smell the smell of bullying...and that's good enough for you, no matter what each individual is saying on the matter. Maybe some...some....people " make it about her ", because what she does is all about her , and when she wants to come to a thread not created by her and one that is asking for other ideas, she still makes it about her, and only her. Which is cool, because I ...and anybody else...can be as vocal. Like I said, you are treating her like she doesn't know exactly what she is doing. I mean...really?????....really?????!!!....reallly????!!!###@@@&&&^^^. 

Oh, and I missed you in the other thread, the one she created and where some men were ' bullying ' her. I find that a little interesting. Here was a chance for you to scold those boys, especially since they were being mean to her in her own thread that was just announcing a television appearance. Yes, very interesting.


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## msbard90 (May 8, 2010)

mossystate said:


> Yeah, that's me. I am being a " badass " by responding to things someone continues to put out on an internet messageboard. Yup, how dare I think that she should expect feedback like anbody else. I get plenty of feedback after I press that submit button.
> You commend the woman for stirring up a lot of controversy ( yes, yes, yes, I know you don't perhaps agree with everything she says, etc, etc, etc ), yet when some people respond with the same conviction......that brings out the flippin' tired Dims cry of bully? It IS a legitimate suggestion that she be ignored. It is A suggestion....just like any other....including yours. You think her being out there the way she is might be beneficial....I disagree, and you better believe me that I will use this space the same way you are using it. I realize you just smell the smell of bullying...and that's good enough for you, no matter what each individual is saying on the matter. Maybe some...some....people " make it about her ", because what she does is all about her , and when she wants to come to a thread not created by her and one that is asking for other ideas, she still makes it about her, and only her. Which is cool, because I ...and anybody else...can be as vocal. Like I said, you are treating her like she doesn't know exactly what she is doing. I mean...really?????....really?????!!!....reallly????!!!###@@@&&&^^^.
> 
> Oh, and I missed you in the other thread, the one she created and where some men were ' bullying ' her. I find that a little interesting. Here was a chance for you to scold those boys, especially since they were being mean to her in her own thread that was just announcing a television appearance. Yes, very interesting.



It's really funny how it's so hard to ask someone just to be kind to others. I've never seen anyone get so offended. I think you're a rather intelligent person, and have enjoyed reading your previous posts over time. I find it sad that you are so absolutely offended that I called you out on being mean to someone. It's really immature. I pointed you out because I expected better from you. I respected you. I thought you were a positive voice in the community, but I guess not. I deeply apologize that you find being humane and polite to others offensive. I'm sorry.


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## mossystate (May 8, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> It's really funny how it's so hard to ask someone just to be kind to others. I've never seen anyone get so offended. I think you're a rather intelligent person, and have enjoyed reading your previous posts over time. I find it sad that you are so absolutely offended that I called you out on being mean to someone. It's really immature. I pointed you out because I expected better from you. I respected you. I thought you were a positive voice in the community, but I guess not. I deeply apologize that you find being humane and polite to others offensive. I'm sorry.



Yes, I eat baby seals for brekkie. Offended? lol You continue to refuse to connect any dots here. You come into a thread to say you think someone can be XYZ. I come into the thread to say, no, I do not think the person should be XYZ. You are the sweetheart for agreeing with the person...I am the bully. I realize that this just means I am still all offended.  Oh, and you just said some of the most vocal fa's out here are not positive voices in the ' community ' ( and I still think it is worthy of a grin, your saying why you singled me out ). It really is OK to counter very strong personalities ( the woman in question ) with ones own. You are doing it right now.


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## msbard90 (May 8, 2010)

mossystate said:


> Yes, I eat baby seals for brekkie. Offended? lol You continue to refuse to connect any dots here. You come into a thread to say you think someone can be XYZ. I come into the thread to say, no, I do not think the person should be XYZ. You are the sweetheart for agreeing with the person...I am the bully. I realize that this just means I am still all offended.  Oh, and you just said some of the most vocal fa's out here are not positive voices in the ' community ' ( and I still think it is worthy of a grin, your saying why you singled me out ). It really is OK to counter very strong personalities ( the woman in question ) with ones own. You are doing it right now.



Throwing in smilies and changing your custom user title isn't going to make your point any better.
Just end it. By age 47, I thought you'd gain enough wisdom to be civil to others, no matter whether you agree with them or not. 

At any rate, this whole ordeal has gone way off topic, and I don't think others would enjoy it. I'm done with this.


*Back on topic now........*


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## mossystate (May 8, 2010)

whooosh

and


scene


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## CastingPearls (May 8, 2010)

This is a polarizing issue and not everyone is going to agree. What some see as defense others see as enabling. What some see as abuse others see it as speaking the truth in their own words. And the list goes on. Strong words reflect strong emotions, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

And I might add, that Donna still blatantly promoted herself (and Phillipe) even after being asked to stay out of it specifically because it's such a polarizing issue, which further drove the point of her detractors. Donna is in this for Donna which is FINE for Donna but it is NOT wrong to say she doesn't represent all or even most of us.

Since this can go on for pages and pages and since she's agreed to stay out of the thread (for now) can we continue this discussion without mention of this specific person and stick to the subject at hand which is WHO would our ideal leaders be and what characteristics would they possess, if we had to have them?


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## msbard90 (May 8, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> This is a polarizing issue and not everyone is going to agree. What some see as defense others see as enabling. What some see as abuse others see it as speaking the truth in their own words. And the list goes on. Strong words reflect strong emotions, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
> 
> And I might add, that Donna still blatantly promoted herself (and Phillipe) even after being asked to stay out of it specifically because it's such a polarizing issue, which further drove the point of her detractors. Donna is in this for Donna which is FINE for Donna but it is NOT wrong to say she doesn't represent all or even most of us.
> 
> Since this can go on for pages and pages and since she's agreed to stay out of the thread (for now) can we continue this discussion without mention of this specific person and stick to the subject at hand which is WHO would our ideal leaders be and what characteristics would they possess, if we had to have them?




Couldn't have said it better myself!
I think that everyone can be their own voice for size acceptance. Is it honestly necessary to appoint ANY particular figure for the job? I think not. I think that showing confidence at any size (in this case, a larger size) can be a statement in and of itself. If we, in this SA community of ours, start exemplifying how confident, healthy, happy and successful we can be, then maybe we can break the bias. However, we hide our community, our clothihg, our social events and make them seem so secretive and clique-y. The main way this community does or says anything is online. I try to show confidence irl. I try to show that I am a happy, fat individual. And I try to "spread the word" about it.


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## exile in thighville (May 8, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> Throwing in smilies and changing your custom user title isn't going to make your point any better.
> Just end it. By age 47, I thought you'd gain enough wisdom to be civil to others, no matter whether you agree with them or not.



if there's anything i've learned from dimensions it's that i'll never have to grow up


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## CastingPearls (May 8, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> Couldn't have said it better myself!
> I think that everyone can be their own voice for size acceptance. Is it honestly necessary to appoint ANY particular figure for the job? I think not. I think that showing confidence at any size (in this case, a larger size) can be a statement in and of itself. If we, in this SA community of ours, start exemplifying how confident, healthy, happy and successful we can be, then maybe we can break the bias. However, we hide our community, our clothihg, our social events and make them seem so secretive and clique-y. The main way this community does or says anything is online. I try to show confidence irl. I try to show that I am a happy, fat individual. And I try to "spread the word" about it.


Valid point but as I've said before, whether we like it or not, want it or not, do it or not, representatives will be chosen. 

It is NOT enough that we show our faces. Live our lives. Raise our families. Be good citizens AND contribute to the SA community. 

As long as we are ridiculed, discriminated against, excluded, unequally represented, and segregated we MUST go OUT there and make ourselves heard. 

NAAFA may have been our Plymouth Rock but now we must step out into the world and be seen and heard on a national and international front. 

We must cease apologizing and reasoning with bigots. We must be proactive and be on the offense rather than the defense with the likes of pseudo-organizations like MeMe Roth's. We need our OWN MeMe Roth to call her on her bullshit organized hate campaign. We need to stop fucking hating each other and agree to disagree and be a united front in telling the world we're not going anywhere. 

First accept that representation will be chosen with or without our participation. 

Then choose or reject wisely.


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## msbard90 (May 8, 2010)

I understand that people WILL be appointed/ appoint themselves to speak on the behalf of the community.

But the real question here is are you willing to be your own advocate? Would you personally represent the community in which you are a part? I'm not saying this in any negative way, I'm saying this because even though there will be people that will represent the community, it should be everyone's personal duty, if you will, to represent themselves in the community. We shouldn't rely on a few personalities.


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## CastingPearls (May 8, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> I understand that people WILL be appointed/ appoint themselves to speak on the behalf of the community.
> 
> But the real question here is are you willing to be your own advocate? Would you personally represent the community in which you are a part? I'm not saying this in any negative way, I'm saying this because even though there will be people that will represent the community, it should be everyone's personal duty, if you will, to represent themselves in the community. We shouldn't rely on a few personalities.


I am my own advocate every single day as are you. I am very outspoken and very direct. I DO call people on their bullshit when important issues are at stake. I don't bother teaching pigs to sing. 

Representations are not to be relied upon. Demanding respect is the main goal and they will serve (again the crux being 'if chosen wisely') to begin a rolling dialogue. Once that dialogue has begun then we make ourselves further known and further outspoken, just like any other worthwhile movement.


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## mossystate (May 8, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> if there's anything i've learned from dimensions it's that i'll never have to grow up



And you want to be a spokesperson for a group. And, yeah, I got your funny.:happy: 
-----
This is exactly why the idea of any official mouthpiece can devolve into an exercise in ego and grandstanding, of _needing_ to be a representative.

The marketplace will determine who will get the airtime. That's how it always goes. Having a Meme Roth of our ( and there is no ' our ', really ) own has its place, to an extent. The ' boring ' will always...always...be the backbone of any and every social push for equality and rights. It might not be sexy enough for some, but that shows more of a personal agenda than a real understanding of the very real people who are truly in the trenches for having the audacity to be fat.

People who want to speak up...do it. There is not going to be an election. A bunch of voices, chipping away. Grassroots. I don't think there is a lab in which to create what I...you...you over there...would want.


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## Tooz (May 8, 2010)

I ultimately feel that we should all be out letting our lives and actions speak for us rather than sitting here bitching about it on a forum.


Day to day, I feel that very little of my life is affected by size bias from others. Probably less than 1% of my life deals with negativity regarding that.


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## CastingPearls (May 8, 2010)

Edited--not worth it


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## tonynyc (May 8, 2010)

Being a spokesperson is no easy feat... besides having the skills to deal with the media .. you need the lobbying expertise as well ... it's a 24/7 job and not just one person.. but, the efforts of many


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## ThatFatGirl (May 8, 2010)

collared Princess said:


> You know honestly..you guys do have a spokesperson..its Philippe..I personally dont know anyone who is more elegant in speech.He does many public speaking events at High schools ,collages etc..
> 
> Our interview with ET wich is on tonight..you will see how his main agenda is more the political side of fat acceptance..those of you who know Philippe know what I mean..We are just now slowly introducing Philippe into the media..you will see him tonight.if you want to see him that is




Thought you said in the other thread it airs on Monday, May 10th?


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## Nutty (May 9, 2010)

The person I think should be representing the Fat Community is Collared Princess because she already got to the point where she can.


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## kayrae (May 9, 2010)

I laughed.


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## Vespertine (May 9, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> alas, you don't have a mass audience.



Whatever you think of me is irrelevent. If the idea has any merit, then hopefully you or anyone else will consider using first-hand understanding of issues facing FAs to help others get out the damn closet. Nothing would help everyone more, including your own interests, and it is past due. 

***

Conrad's post was interesting to me, he has been a visible figure, and it sounds like it wasn't time for it. I think that time has come, since fat women have now proven themselves to be attention whores (and I mean that very affectionately I love it ). Donna is a drop in the bucket of a tidal wave of fat women actively seeking fame and telling their story, and I don't think its just cos I'm in LA I say that. We don't need another woman spokesperson, the grassroots is taking care of that in every corner of media I can think of. What we need now is loud FAs to support them.

There needs to be some way to deal with the rampant shame and closeting. Furries is more an example of my frustration that an outlandish fetish can be accepted while average people are irrationally rejected, more apt is the gay community. They're regarded as an outright evil by many people and also a health crisis, yet they still managed to come out of the closet- which was also largely comprised of underground shame fueled sex scenes. But they only got away from being the demonized health scare du jour cos they supported each other outside the bedroom. 

Because closeted FAs are ashamed, they are ashamed of the women who would support them, that's why FAs need to support each other. Their voice is missing, and its critical to have it while fat people continually throw themselves in front of an unforgiving media. Making their demographic widely known will also help get more fat people into the media more often, which is what already media-poised fat people want and need.

I certainly could've stated it better before but I have zero tolerance for this same as I have for my gay friends getting screwed over by closet cases. By the time someone's in their mid twenties the excuses run out. The problem isn't with women feeling good about themselves anymore, its that they are doing it in a public vacuum. I know there are some awesome and outspoken FAs especially on here, but IRL there is a noticeable lack of influence.


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## superodalisque (May 9, 2010)

Vespertine said:


> I don't get it really. Fat women are already sex objects, same as skinny women. Many fat women may be unaware of it, but once they find out, it can be disappointing. Not quite the fairytale we hoped, probably all of us imagined how great life would be if only we were 'attractive'. Ha! This particular equality is utterly useless on its own, but this is the only equality I can be assured of, someone will find me attractive. Big deal, that and two bucks will get me a coffee.
> 
> Fat women need help to understand this more than they need to be told they are beautiful, cos the beauty itself is a simple truth. However it really does come as a surprise at first and that can create bad situations easily, I've lived it and seen it rampantly. We were not conditioned to know how to deal with the male attention we are bound to get, that is a problem and it won't be fixed by merely telling fat women they are beautiful. Another serious issue is FAs are simply afraid to give that attention when they want to.
> 
> ...



i agree. i'm not sure jiggling around in public and acting like desperate hogging fodder does anything for SA. all of this having to "prove" publicly that someone is beautiful is problematic. it just underscores a basic assumption in the fat community that i totally disagree with, that fat women in particular are undesirable so they have to go the extra mile--sometimes too far. operating from that position can be dangerous because it accepts all of the negative assumptions in society as true. it also creates a situation where fat women in particular look like they are just pawns to be manipulated. thats makes us look as though we are coming from a position of weakness. 

if someone knows they are beautiful they don't need to prove it to the world anyway, just enjoy it for themselves and only explore that if its a part of their personal nature. its a personal choice and not a requirement for all people who live in public. and for women it can be doubly problematic since women who are overtly sexual never get taken seriously when it comes to governmental policies etc...

besides, all of this talk of bikinis and dancing around nearly totally excludes BHMs. Fat people have a lot of shared concerns that need to be addressed as well and nearly totally ignoring some of them in a convo about SA can be another unintended consequence of FA self interest bias. i'm really glad that not all FAs misunderstand what SA really means to fat people. but there are a few who do seem to think its all about making them comfortable with their desires and making them more easily attainable. thats not what SA is. its only a tiny portion. 

for the most part FAs should be responsible for their own situation. not all FAs are secret or embarrassed. thats not the position of every man who likes fat women or every woman who likes fat men. behaving as if thats a major component of SA is really odd and looks extremely selfish. its not a fat person's main responsibility to make an FA feel normal. its a fat person's responsibility to get their basic rights as a human being not to be abused defiled or neglected. FAs need to start addressing more of their issues internally and stop expecting the SA movement to totally carry them. Fat people have a whole lot of important issues on their plate. adding someone else's unneeded and unnecessary shame on top of it seems unfair. 

focusing the entire movement on that IMO is putting too much energy into making FAs happy and comfortable. dims can do that because its a sex interest site basically aimed at FAs. but the SA movement itself is a totally different animal as has already been pointed out here. i doubt most politically aware fat people will stand for that position. that focus is fine here. but dancing around and wearing bikinis is not going to get most of us comfortably on an plane, accessibility in the work place or better friendlier health care. in fact it can be counter productive. all of that has been available publicly for many years now. its on the net. its covered in the news. it does have its benefits but they aren't of a practical interest for most fat people. many of whom know there is more to life than a bar or being thought to be pretty.

if Sa starts to be like dims the public will NOT participate. most other fat people will NOT participate. most FAs will NOT participate either. as we have already seen most people don't want that kind of focus on themselves personally.


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## kayrae (May 9, 2010)

Furries might've gained mainstream attention, but they're far from accepted.


*Here's my list:*
Kate Harding
Marilyn Wann
Marianne Kirby
Linda Bacon
Lesley Kinzel
Joy Nash


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## msbard90 (May 9, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> if someone knows they are beautiful they don't need to prove it to the world anyway, just enjoy it for themselves and only explore that if its a part of their personal nature. its a personal choice and not a requirement for all people who live in public. and for women it can be doubly problematic since women who are overtly sexual never get taken seriously when it comes to governmental policies etc...
> 
> i'm really glad that not all FAs misunderstand what SA really means to fat people. but there are a few who do seem to think its all about making them comfortable with their desires and making them more easily attainable. thats not what SA is. its only a tiny portion.
> 
> ...




This was an excellent post, SuperO. 
As you said, it is of utmost importance to decipher between fantasy and reality in the SA movement. Granted, Dimensions and other online forum communities are fun, flirty, and at times educational and empowering, but SA needs to be seen as more than _this_. 

If we want SA to become a reality, then we need to make a serious, educated stance. Everyone has the right (and IMO, obligation) to become educated about SA and to spread those findings with others. 

As with any other cultural/social group, there are always going to be members who don't take it seriously, who put a bad name to it. But that happens in any social group. I honestly don't think the questionable actions of a few people are going to give the SA movement a new stereotype that hasn't already associated with it.

I think a lot of the issue is that members of communities like Dims think that _this_ is their contribution to the SA movement. It is a move in the right direction, but this site is a dedication to BBW's, BHM's and their admirers. It is a place of fantasy, of fun, gossip, bickering, friendship, you name it. But where do dimmers go from here? A lot of the issue, (myself included on this one), is that a lot of us don't know how to go about promoting the SA movement in a more prominent and effective manner. 

A lot of dims members could/would be great voices in a legitimate SA movement, but it's hard to find out where to begin or who to talk to. Its hard to decipher what the facts are versus what the opinions are. I know there are a lot of well-educated individuals here that could rock my socks with SA facts, and they should. Because I'd like to get involved. Honestly.

I have seen people who posted their thoughts on who would be a good leader for the Size Acceptance movement. The names are few and repeated often. We can so greatly broaden our stance and find more voices, actual "willing" voices, if we educate those willing to learn. If those who are well versed on the facts would be willing to get down to a basic level and help the "newbies", like me.

I know it's no one's individual obligation to teach me, or anyone who wants to become informed. I know many people are going to tell me, "well why don't you do some research?". My whole point is that we have educated and informed people here. I'm sure there are many people who want to learn the facts. And the best way to get the ball rolling is to teach people to decipher the facts from the gossip from the opinion because the more people who are on the same page in this movement, the better. 

That's how I think we should start with this whole ordeal.


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## kayrae (May 9, 2010)

Some of these are my go-to sources, others are on my to-do list. 
If you want to learn more about size acceptance, go here:

*WEBSITES:*
fatshionista.com
therotund.com
kateharding.net
jezebel.com
adipositivity.com
youngfatandfabulous.com
musingsofafatshionista.com
bigfatblog.com
nolose.org

*PODCASTS:*
fatcast.twowholecakes.com

*BOOKS:*
Fat!So? by Marilyn Wann
Lessons from the Fat-o-sphere: Quit Dieting and Declare a Truce with Your Body by Kate Harding and Marianne Kirby
The Fat Studies Reader
Health At Every Size by Linda Bacon
The Fat Girls Guide To Life by Wendy Shanker
Fat Chicks Rule!: How To Survive in a Thin-Centric World by Lara Frater
Fat Is A Feminist Issue by Susie Orbach


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## msbard90 (May 9, 2010)

kayrae said:


> Some of these are my go-to sources, others are on my to-do list.
> If you want to learn more about size acceptance, go here:
> 
> *WEBSITES:*
> ...



Thanks for the list! I will definitely be reading up on some fat material stat!!!


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## CastingPearls (May 9, 2010)

All excellent suggestions. Fat!So? in particular sparked my interest in SA and Fat Activist movements over 10 years ago. I wish we'd see a lot more of Marilyn Wann. She really does have such great charisma, flamboyance and heart.

I would add Such a Pretty Face:Being Fat in America by Marcia Millman


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## stldpn (May 9, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> nothing that you mention here transcends any kind of _boundary_. the differences between the inspirational-rehash above and the cultural influence of say, a major actor like jamie foxx participating in a fat admiration campaign, with a press conference and ads, officially "coming out" the way someone like clay aiken can and get on magazine covers, would be transgressive enough to make people discuss whether or not fat admiration is so marginal after all. in fact, any kind of Legitimate Known Person coming out as an FA and making a point of it would make waves. that hasn't happened, not once, in a country that is mostly overweight and mostly fucking. to ignore the implications of this serious cultural divide is to be completely naive; "work on you" - i'm accounted for. work on mass changes to encourage the closeted many to act normal.
> 
> as it stands, a whole lot of people taught to love their own bodies doesn't mean much outside of those people's own lives. it's why no one really gives a shit when mika (gay) or leonard nimoy (not an fa) say something nice about the people they don't prefer in bed.


Well you realize that Ellen Degeneres and Rosie O'donnell didn't exactly fare well in the public eye after "coming out" so I'm not sure what that does for your idea about Jamie Foxx. Degeneres only recouped after SEVERAL years of being out of work. The thing about fat acceptance is that it's not exactly like being gay. There are no closet fatties. 

No offense but I'm not overly concerned about FAs receiving discrimination. I mean what kind of discrimination could they possibly face that isn't strictly social? No one's going to stop your mom from asking you why you're dating a fatty. You are the only one that can express that it REALLY hurts your feelings. You are the only one who can decide that you're willing to cut certain friends out of your life because they don't care for the way you want to live it. 

I'm concerned about Fat workers who still face job discrimination or Fat patients who aren't receiving proper healthcare because the public hospitals they frequent don't have mri machines that fit OR decent transport equipment. Ours is literally a "growing" need and in an age where we take the census and collect statistical information to determine where we need to send federal grants for esl classes and spanish signs and senior services I say it'd be nice to have the support of communities when we need our special needs met.


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## superodalisque (May 10, 2010)

stldpn said:


> Well you realize that Ellen Degeneres and Rosie O'donnell didn't exactly fare well in the public eye after "coming out" so I'm not sure what that does for your idea about Jamie Foxx. Degeneres only recouped after SEVERAL years of being out of work. The thing about fat acceptance is that it's not exactly like being gay. There are no closet fatties.
> 
> No offense but I'm not overly concerned about FAs receiving discrimination. I mean what kind of discrimination could they possibly face that isn't strictly social? No one's going to stop your mom from asking you why you're dating a fatty. You are the only one that can express that it REALLY hurts your feelings. You are the only one who can decide that you're willing to cut certain friends out of your life because they don't care for the way you want to live it.
> 
> I'm concerned about Fat workers who still face job discrimination or Fat patients who aren't receiving proper healthcare because the public hospitals they frequent don't have mri machines that fit OR decent transport equipment. Ours is literally a "growing" need and in an age where we take the census and collect statistical information to determine where we need to send federal grants for esl classes and spanish signs and senior services I say it'd be nice to have the support of communities when we need our special needs met.



this exactly!


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## exile in thighville (May 10, 2010)

stldpn said:


> Well you realize that Ellen Degeneres and Rosie O'donnell didn't exactly fare well in the public eye after "coming out" so I'm not sure what that does for your idea about Jamie Foxx. Degeneres only recouped after SEVERAL years of being out of work. The thing about fat acceptance is that it's not exactly like being gay. There are no closet fatties.
> 
> No offense but I'm not overly concerned about FAs receiving discrimination. I mean what kind of discrimination could they possibly face that isn't strictly social? No one's going to stop your mom from asking you why you're dating a fatty. You are the only one that can express that it REALLY hurts your feelings. You are the only one who can decide that you're willing to cut certain friends out of your life because they don't care for the way you want to live it.



ellen degeneres and rosie o'donnell are two of the most successful women on the planet. being out of work for several years? yeah, scary. she then came back to _finding nemo_, her own talk show and _american idol_. the former set records for highest-grossing film, the latter is the most-watched show in america. it's not like people forgot she was gay.

your answer to the second part is exactly why fat acceptance doesn't get respect. fat acceptance is a privilege - why should anyone give a shit about you? do you think you're somehow bolder for walking around being yourself because you don't have a choice? bolder than fas, or pray tell, thin people who think they're fat or have an eating disorder? empathy isn't one-sided. and if you think cutting people out of your life for not agreeing with you is the way to salvation, you're even less complex than i already thought.


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## exile in thighville (May 10, 2010)

Vespertine said:


> Whatever you think of me is irrelevent.



you however know better than to think that was attacking you


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## superodalisque (May 10, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> your answer to the second part is exactly why fat acceptance doesn't get respect. fat acceptance is a privilege - why should anyone give a shit about you? do you think you're somehow bolder for walking around being yourself because you don't have a choice? bolder than fas, or pray tell, thin people who think they're fat or have an eating disorder? empathy isn't one-sided. and if you think cutting people out of your life for not agreeing with you is the way to salvation, you're even less complex than i already thought.



no. fat acceptance is not a privilege its a right--a human right. people beg for privileges. human rights are something you have to fight for and demand because they are inborn innate things that people have taken away unfairly. human beings care about other human beings because we are all human and in this thing together. we care because when we look at each other we can see a bit of us in the next person. when their rights are gone ours might follow. thats why we share in one another's pain when we truly know about it and understand it. IMO i think the problem is we aren't allowing people to see that they really are us. we've been too busy thinking we are different. we've been too busy playing the freak and the out of control and the weak in ways that don't draw people in and interest them in learning more. to make things happen we need to be strong and sure of our place in humanity like everyone else. we need to educate people. we need to reiterate "i am a man" "i am a woman". 

pimping each other out doesn't make anyone care about us more. besides that it makes FAs look bad. it wouldn't be a good idea to have them looking as though they are pimping and pandering villians with harems who are taking advantage of sad desperate fat women. i've seen that in a lot of documentaries. its not pretty. the media loves to make FAs look like hoggers. thats not good for community perceptions and probably sent a lot of guys even further into the closet. stuff like that will make a lot of people who could help us not want to associate with us at all. i wouldn't blame them. who wants to recognize themselves in that.

men can participate in ways where it doesn't matter if the are FAs or not. so that even guys who are in the closet can help without making it as though someone is pushing them out before they are ready. as much as i dislike the fact that people are closeted i don't think it helps to out people before they are ready. thats their personal decision. why should they have to be out to be politically supportive? who wants to turn away help they could have just because of someone's personal position on their sexuality thats no one's business but theirs anyway. as much as i would like FAs to be out i know its none of my damn business if they're in the closet unless they try to hurt me. i don't hate em, i just don't date em. i certainly won't put the burden and responsibility of my rights on someone who already probably feels guilty enough about who and what he is when i'm perfectly capable of taking care of them myself. 

fat people pay taxes just like everyone else. we have talents. we have an intellect. we contribute to society. we are human just like everyone else. we deserve our political rights. looking like we are weak and are being manipulated by others is not what most of us want.

i really don't understand why its to important to you to ignore what it is that fat people really need and want. have you ever thought that while we demand our rights people will grow to respect us because we aren't begging or selling ourselves short. maybe FAs would get more respect as well if they aren't viewed as manipulating Svengali types just out for their own advantage. i don't see anybody in congress basing laws on someones ability to pull down meat in a bar on saturday night anyway. the dips who care about that have no power to do anything for fat people that truly matters anyway. your right in a way though. sometimes nobody really gives a damn about your rights. so thats when you have to make them care by having laws passed with real consequences. for instance, how many fat lives would be saved if it were illegal to tell people to lose weight instead of giving them diagnostic medical care. what about not giving medical care because someone is fat even if they sign off to say they are willing to take the risk. will your folks in the bar be around to pressure their congressman for that. probably not. because most people who meet that profile don't even bother to vote.

and yeah he is bolder for being himself because he can't hide from the prejudice. he has to deal with it everyday. he can't giggle in the background at a fat joke as though it has nothing to do with him. it takes much more to BE something thats the focus of prejudice than it does to just voluntarily associate yourself with something when you feel like it and opt out when you don't.


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## exile in thighville (May 10, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> no. fat acceptance is not a privilege its a right--a human right.



like many, you're confusing it with fat tolerance.


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## exile in thighville (May 10, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> and yeah he is bolder for being himself because he can't hide from the prejudice.



and please, he doesn't have a choice. the who-has-it-worse argument is a negligible resort. you especially shouldn't use it around people who know FAs who've been kicked out of the house for their preferences. sniffing at FAs' supposed ability to "opt out" whenever they feel like it is narrow as well. sure i could opt out, provided my friends and family all suffered a concussion and i stopped bringing my lady out in public. get a new strategy other than trying to make your dwindling pool of supporters feel as lowly as yourself and maybe you wouldn't be repeating yourself for years to come.


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## TraciJo67 (May 10, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> and please, he doesn't have a choice. the who-has-it-worse argument is a negligible resort. you especially shouldn't use it around people who know FAs who've been kicked out of the house for their preferences. sniffing at FAs' supposed ability to "opt out" whenever they feel like it is narrow as well. sure i could opt out, provided my friends and family all suffered a concussion and i stopped bringing my lady out in public. get a new strategy other than trying to make your dwindling pool of supporters feel as lowly as yourself and maybe you wouldn't be repeating yourself for years to come.


 
I don't catch even a whiff of victim mentality in supero's posts, Dan. Quite the opposite, in fact: her message is one of taking ownership and of empowering ourselves, and I can get behind that 100%. I believe that the same principle applies to FA's. And the whole "who has it worse" routine is beyond old from all perspectives, since it's a moot point altogether (and also a card I don't see being played by SuperO). This isn't about which group is more castigated. I think it's more about not requiring FA approval when working towards fat acceptance in terms of what should be our inherent right to enjoy the same privileges that everyone else does: access to health insurance and unbiased medical care, employment opportunities, etc. Fat men and women don't need admirers when it comes to this kind of activism. What I'm reading is that SuperO believes that fat admiration is wonderful, but belongs in its own place and that's not front 'n center of the need to demand fat acceptance. I'm sure that she'll correct me if I'm wrong.


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## exile in thighville (May 10, 2010)

"bolder" is a comparative modifier. i get what supero's _trying_ to say and i'm not _trying_ to pick on the negative but for some reason my angle in this thread is cause for her to repeat herself when i've already explained that while intentions are noble i'm pretty sure prioritizing exactly that stuff over more trangressive methods of advocacy has made no significant change for any mass of people outside of our bubble.

EDIT: (actually my language was a bit harsh for her - re: "lowly" -, i meant more to pick on stdpln, who doesn't really get why he's here yet. sorry about that supero)


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## Jes (May 10, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> What some see as defense others see as enabling. What some see as abuse others see it as speaking the truth in their own words. And the list goes on. Strong words reflect strong emotions, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. ?



Well, there's having, and giving, your opinion, and then there's being shitty about it, right? You don't have to be shitty and mean when sharing your opinion. That seems to be the thing some people miss. That flippant "i'll cut you!" attitude just gets boring after a while.


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## CastingPearls (May 10, 2010)

Jes said:


> Well, there's having, and giving, your opinion, and then there's being shitty about it, right? You don't have to be shitty and mean when sharing your opinion. That seems to be the thing some people miss. That flippant "i'll cut you!" attitude just gets boring after a while.


That flippant 'I'll cut you' attitude' IMO is reflective of frustration and anger. Maybe I look past the hyperbole (when I'm not busy contibuting to it myself) because right or wrong I want to hear what everyone has to say. 

Upthread somene made a comment about everyone bitching--but isn't that really dialogue and isn't this the place for it AND isn't that how movements get started? 

Nobody promised anyone here that they'd be protected from opposition or invective. We're all adults. Sift through , look past, or climb over the mountain of bullshit. Nearly everyone who's posting is making valid arguments whether you personally agree or not.

I've asked this question before on another thread and I'll ask it again--if you had to choose only one--peace or truth--which one would it be? For me it's truth. And if it's wrapped up in string, tied to a brick and thrown through a window--its method of delivery leaves much to be desired but it's still the truth.


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## Jon Blaze (May 10, 2010)

I agree with those that mentioned it has to come from many sides.

I also agree with Dan's comment, but that would be towards a more FA angle. But all those mentioned (Well replace me with him lol [Not that I have a problem with it, but my public speaking has now reached suckage level lol]) I would have no problem going on a show et cetera to explain their side of things.

That's only one piece of the puzzle. I've thought about this in the past, but that is only part of things. We have to do our part to present ourselves accordingly on our own.

I thought of it sort of like:
HAES
Activism
Fat Admiration
Fashion
Youth

And then I would just fill it in with names i.e. Dr. Bacon, Kelly Bliss, Kate Harding, Marianne Kirby, Marilyn Wann, Paul Campos, Rachael from the F Word lol, Aris lol, Dan, FA man Stan lol and so on...


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## msbard90 (May 10, 2010)

I've been reading all of these posts, and everyone has had something really productive to say, even Dan (although everyone's irritated at him right now).

He has a point. People don't have to _accept_ other people's size. In fact, few people do. However, something more reasonable at this stage is to ask for tolerance. It is a much more reasonable argument and a much more attainable goal in this point in time to lobby for tolerance as opposed to acceptance. Some people don't accept people who interracially date, but we _tolerate_ it. However, people are neither accepting nor tolerating size. People are still mean and cruel to fat people, and I'm not just pulling this out of my rear end- read the forums-- its _everywhere_! People are simply not going to accept the fact that there are people of all sizes any time soon. In the meanwhile, we can at least inform people, try to shake their prejudice and at least tolerate people different from themself.


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## Jes (May 10, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> ? For me it's truth. And if it's wrapped up in string, tied to a brick and thrown through a window--its method of delivery leaves much to be desired but it's still the truth.



well, there's truth with a little t and Truth with a big T, you know? Do you think we all agree on what the truth is? Or that badgering will win anyone over? I think that speaking one's own truth, and/or sharing an opinion is fine and right. But very few people posting here or on any other forum are going to convince people who are diametrically opposed to their viewpoint. I think it begins to read like Coke v. Pepsi! stuff.


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## CastingPearls (May 10, 2010)

Jes said:


> well, there's truth with a little t and Truth with a big T, you know? Do you think we all agree on what the truth is? Or that badgering will win anyone over? I think that speaking one's own truth, and/or sharing an opinion is fine and right. But very few people posting here or on any other forum are going to convince people who are diametrically opposed to their viewpoint. I think it begins to read like Coke v. Pepsi! stuff.


I agree with you on a lot of this...you're preaching to the choir BUT not everyone standing on soapboxes on this thread has a JEEBUS SAVES sign around their neck. 
For those of us who are open to suggestion, negotiation, finding common ground, etc. --we're listening. A lot of us are contributing--a lot are lurking but paying very close attention--and yes, some are looking for that one sentence or phrase to set them off for their next rant while completely disregarding the message or it's intent.
And I think you underestimate people re convincing---look---no one opposed or closeted (there are closeted fatties by the way--STLD, if only in their own minds) is going to swallow whole what we're all saying but are you totally convinced that seeds might not be planted?


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## mossystate (May 10, 2010)

Jes said:


> Well, there's having, and giving, your opinion, and then there's being shitty about it, right? You don't have to be shitty and mean when sharing your opinion. That seems to be the thing some people miss. That flippant "i'll cut you!" attitude just gets boring after a while.



Exactly! And then there are those who hide the shit under blankets of ' who, me?! '. I feel you on this one, Jes!


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## exile in thighville (May 10, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> I've been reading all of these posts, and everyone has had something really productive to say, even Dan (although everyone's irritated at him right now).



"right now"


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## Jes (May 10, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> but are you totally convinced that seeds might not be planted?



you'll note I said 'very few.' I tend not to be absolute in my diction, and that's for a reason.


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## msbard90 (May 10, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> "right now"



Oh jeez...... 
Can I TRY to be nice? Can I try to not start a fight here lol? I don't want to break a nail


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## CastingPearls (May 10, 2010)

msbard90 said:


> Oh jeez......
> Can I TRY to be nice? Can I try to not start a fight here lol? I don't want to break a nail


NO!! My life for the cause, mebbe--but NOT the nails!!!


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## msbard90 (May 10, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> NO!! My life for the cause, mebbe--but NOT the nails!!!



LOL  Its just "important" to be PC around here, you know?


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## superodalisque (May 10, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> like many, you're confusing it with fat tolerance.



nope its a right. its a public policy issue. it doesn't matter if someone thinks your fat is pretty. who cares if they do? someone worthwhile will. having access to employment even though it might not be covered under the Americans with disabilities act is a right that needs to be fought for. right now no one is required to order you a bigger office chair etc... right now docs can get away with just telling you to lose weight and sending you home with a serious health issue. we have a dims friend right now that we haven't heard from who is in a nursing home in serious pain that his doc refuses to treat or even order the appropriate tests for. i know, because his issue and mine are very similar. there are a lot of rights like that, that fat people are denied. if there were real legal recourse we could make a huge dent in it. right now nobody pays for doing those things so they can. but it might be difficult for you to know that.

its not about whether people like us or not. its about whether we can pressure the law to do things for us that are vital to our survival in terms of our health and income. when black people got their rights it wasn't about tolerance. there was still racism but we could vote and do many other things legally that required appropriate action no matter how someone actually felt. we suddenly had something called power. we had power at the polls. we had legal recourse that made it very uncomfortable for people to discriminate. if we had waited for people to like us first we'd have been in very bad shape. i know that the huge influx of African Americans into college in the early 70s could have never happened and most of todays black middle class wouldn't exist. 

the perception that fat people are poor and in bad health is a part of prejudice. its not only that they look big. we also look powerless. but that can only be solved if we attack the root cause. we need the law to do that.


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## superodalisque (May 10, 2010)

for the record , i think its great for FAs to be involved but they need to be careful about taking things over and totally controlling them.


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## stldpn (May 10, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> ellen degeneres and rosie o'donnell are two of the most successful women on the planet. being out of work for several years? yeah, scary. she then came back to _finding nemo_, her own talk show and _american idol_. the former set records for highest-grossing film, the latter is the most-watched show in america. it's not like people forgot she was gay.
> 
> your answer to the second part is exactly why fat acceptance doesn't get respect. fat acceptance is a privilege - why should anyone give a shit about you? do you think you're somehow bolder for walking around being yourself because you don't have a choice? bolder than fas, or pray tell, thin people who think they're fat or have an eating disorder? empathy isn't one-sided. and if you think cutting people out of your life for not agreeing with you is the way to salvation, you're even less complex than i already thought.



No nobody forgot she was gay in fact there were several gay people who already recognized her "gayness" before she announced it to dairy farmers in Wisconsin. The point is she suffered massive backlash for being "Too Gay" and attempting to jump a chasm that wasn't filled with fan support. Ellen and Rosie are both cases of people who stood up for a cause and took the axe because people considered them too "in your face."

I don't think I'm special. I think I deserve to be treated equal. I pay taxes just like everyone else. I contribute just like everyone else. Does that mean I don't have a right to earn a job based on my merits and experience? Does it mean that I should die because the only MRI table has a 350lb limit? I'm not asking for anything special I'm asking for equal opportunity. The fact that you don't give a shit whether I die or experience workplace discrimination because you as an FA only care whether or not my fat is "hot"? That's the ridiculous part. I don't want to be special, I just need to be equal.


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## stldpn (May 10, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> and please, he doesn't have a choice. the who-has-it-worse argument is a negligible resort. you especially shouldn't use it around people who know FAs who've been kicked out of the house for their preferences. sniffing at FAs' supposed ability to "opt out" whenever they feel like it is narrow as well. sure i could opt out, provided my friends and family all suffered a concussion and i stopped bringing my lady out in public. get a new strategy other than trying to make your dwindling pool of supporters feel as lowly as yourself and maybe you wouldn't be repeating yourself for years to come.



Look it's like this. I've never seen someone fired because they had a thing for fat people, ever. I've never seen someone turned down for a job because they thought an interest in fat people would make them low energy and a poor worker. 
Social stuff, it doesn't change with a big name FA telling people that being an FA is cool. Chances are if you have a family that kicks you out for being a FA they're not exactly going to be affected by someone "coming out" as an FA on television.


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## Pearlover90000 (May 11, 2010)

I would nominate 'Sweet and Fat," aka Leah, to represent us.
She has all of the qualities needed, and is a healthy and happy active individual.

PL




wrestlingguy said:


> So I want to go off on a tangent based on the thread that was recently shut down by the mods.
> 
> There still seems to be some resentment over Donna S's original comment that she somehow represents the fat community. Some of the posts in the now closed thread bear this out.
> 
> ...


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## mossystate (May 11, 2010)

And....luck would have it...............................


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## bigmac (May 12, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> its not about whether people like us or not. its about whether we can pressure the law to do things for us that are vital to our survival in terms of our health and income. when black people got their rights it wasn't about tolerance. there was still racism but we could vote and do many other things legally that required appropriate action no matter how someone actually felt. we suddenly had something called power. we had power at the polls. we had legal recourse that made it very uncomfortable for people to discriminate. if we had waited for people to like us first we'd have been in very bad shape. i know that the huge influx of African Americans into college in the early 70s could have never happened and most of todays black middle class wouldn't exist.
> 
> the perception that fat people are poor and in bad health is a part of prejudice. its not only that they look big. we also look powerless. but that can only be solved if we attack the root cause. we need the law to do that.



I agree 100% that anti-discrimination laws would be a great help -- unfortunately some people will only do the right thing under threat of litigation. That said -- there's no reason the battle can't be fought on multiple fronts. Fat people can't just sit around waiting -- they need to get out and go to college, get professional licenses, etc. Sure we may have more problems getting jobs but giving up is not an option. I've met far too many smart fat people who are too afraid of failure to even try.

The civil rights movement opened doors for the black middle-class but it must be noted that there were was a black middle-class even before the civil rights movement (a credit to their determination). Like the pioneers of the Harlem Renaissance we need people who will struggle against the tide of discrimination with or without the laws help.


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## superodalisque (May 12, 2010)

bigmac said:


> I agree 100% that anti-discrimination laws would be a great help -- unfortunately some people will only do the right thing under threat of litigation. That said -- there's no reason the battle can't be fought on multiple fronts. Fat people can't just sit around waiting -- they need to get out and go to college, get professional licenses, etc. Sure we may have more problems getting jobs but giving up is not an option. I've met far too many smart fat people who are too afraid of failure to even try.
> 
> The civil rights movement opened doors for the black middle-class but it must be noted that there were was a black middle-class even before the civil rights movement (a credit to their determination). Like the pioneers of the Harlem Renaissance we need people who will struggle against the tide of discrimination with or without the laws help.





i agree with this. i would never want to cut out the shaping public opinion. i think its important. but we still have to be careful about how we do that. as long as the central intentions of SA aren't overshadowed i think its fantastic. but for the record ( i know you weren't refuting this) the pioneers of the harlem renaissance were very much concerned with public policy. hence the silent march and other political actions that were later appropriated successfully by the women's sufferage movement during that period as well as other progressive concerns. the harlem renaissance was not all singing,dancing and writing. that took place against the backdrop of important political issues brought forward by Marcus Garvey, Alain Locke, A. Philip Randolph, Booker T. Washington among many others. they all petitioned Washington. political action has never been anything other than central to the rights of black people. the law was being challenged then as it was throughout our time here--as far back as the 1700s with the first cases of slavery challenging the idea that their indentured servitude should never end based simply upon their race. even slaves brought cases against their masters. we always knew where the real meat was. and we still know that its in the courts. thats why we have progressed further than any other enslaved group in the shortest period of time.


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## Vespertine (May 14, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> <read and agreed>
> 
> besides, all of this talk of bikinis and dancing around nearly totally excludes BHMs. Fat people have a lot of shared concerns that need to be addressed as well and nearly totally ignoring some of them in a convo about SA can be another unintended consequence of FA self interest bias. i'm really glad that not all FAs misunderstand what SA really means to fat people. but there are a few who do seem to think its all about making them comfortable with their desires and making them more easily attainable. thats not what SA is. its only a tiny portion.



Yeah, you're right, I really don't mean to exclude BHMs, FFAs or anyone else from the overall goal of SA. I'm thinking of the lack of support the media-seeking fat women I know endure, and I think straight FAs are their biggest untapped demographic. 

I know on here there are many proud FAs, guys that are open and talk about their preference, this is probably the best place online to do it especially since it attracts potentially closeted lurkers. Many of the FAs here will likely say it wasn't a big deal once their friends and family heard them. They are doing the important real work, just going about their lives being themselves unashamed. But I think its time to step it up cos the US First Lady just declared war on us FFS. A lot of fat media is going to break big if there is support for it! Not only my friends' docu, there's the one posted in this thread, and at least two others I know of. There are models, designers, photographers, musicians, actors, writers. So many creative and intelligent size-positive people of all types are just waiting for a chance to represent themselves. They just need demand to fill. 

I don't mean to suggest that it should be the total movement, but that it's the part of it that has been most noticeably undeveloped. I know it still looks narrow out in media-land, but there's a heck of a lot more going on than when I was a teen, and afaics it is down to women of all sizes pushing for it. The mass media that comes out with unconventional bodies is not generally designed for straight men (ugly betty, drop dead diva, plus size models), and that is telling. Since when does media restrict itself from playing on male libido? Only when they don't think there's a market for it. I think there's more to it than that, but its telling anyway. 

I admit it may lead to typically misogynist things happening, but it may help normalize liking fat women not only for FAs...but for omnisexuals who can choose to be with thin women and be socially acceptable, but who may be happier with a larger woman. I think that demographic is significant, cos I've met many, many more omnis in the normal course of my life. Only online and at 'fat' clubs do I find FAs but their interests are closer to mine.

I want even the creeps who pick up fat women to use to start thinking about the fact their shame about what gets them up is damaging to their life also, but I'm not the one they will hear it from. Really, you don't go hogging if you don't get it up for fat, WTF. No different than my gay friend in college getting used by a frat boy who then acted straight and slandered 'fags', yet continued seeking out other gay boys to humiliate. There's a festering root of shame and fear in that behavior. 

For the extreme stuff that most everyone is going to reject, there's no way around it.  It's part of the culture, and if its dealt with directly somehow it hopefully can be seen for what it really is...a fringe fetish, like any other, kinda kooky and at times disturbing, but generally harmless and moreover not representative of all. Honestly I've thought it may end up tainting us forever like the gay male community's more self destructive elements, but what can we do. There's got to be a time to address it publicly.




kayrae said:


> Furries might've gained mainstream attention, but they're far from accepted.



No, they're not taken seriously in mass culture and I don't mean to malign them either. I just have been at (kind of fringe) mixed-group clubs where people are openly furry with tails and ears and such get hit on relentlessly, get asked what its about (i know cos I hit on them too ). Meanwhile lots of guys are watching me dance, not in the 'haha ur fat' way, but won't come up and say anything. Not even on the fringe where furries and crossdressers are celebrated members! It can start to get a girl down LOL



stldpn said:


> I'm concerned about Fat workers who still face job discrimination or Fat patients who aren't receiving proper healthcare because the public hospitals they frequent don't have mri machines that fit OR decent transport equipment. Ours is literally a "growing" need and in an age where we take the census and collect statistical information to determine where we need to send federal grants for esl classes and spanish signs and senior services I say it'd be nice to have the support of communities when we need our special needs met.



Me too. I've had really blatant discrimination in employment and with doctors, totally indefensible. I was one of MANY of co-workers who were, but I was the only one to stand up to it, say its not okay. Everyone else was ashamed of their weight, rationalized the abuse. "Yeah i guess I should lose weight." People don't deserve humiliation at their job cos of size, if they are doing their job well, and we were. In the end, it was the union that made sure the company didn't discriminate so much people got fired for weight under new policies.


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## superodalisque (May 20, 2010)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOXmaSCt4ZE

People get ready, there's a train a comin'	
You don't need no baggage, you just get on board	
All you need is faith to hear the diesels hummin'	
Don't need no ticket, you just thank the Lord

People get ready for the train to Jordan	
It's picking up passengers from coast to coast	
Faith is the key, open the doors and board 'em	
There's hope for all among those loved the most.

There ain't no room for the hopeless sinner
Who would hurt all mankind just to save his own	
Have pity on those whose chances grow thinner
For there's no hiding place against the Kingdom's throne

So people get ready, there's a train a comin'	
You don't need no baggage, you just get on board	
All you need is faith to hear the diesels hummin'	
Don't need no ticket, you just thank the Lord


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## Lamia (May 21, 2010)

I don't know who, but I do know that I would at least like them to have a head. These headless, fat bodies flitting around on my TV screen are driving me insane.


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## wrestlingguy (May 21, 2010)

You know things are getting rough when you start hoping that your own threads will die.


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## Fat Brian (May 21, 2010)

Now, you know Lamia's post was completely worth it .


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## stldpn (May 21, 2010)

wrestlingguy said:


> You know things are getting rough when you start hoping that your own threads will die.



oh come on phil there's been a lot of useful discussion here... it hasn't gone anywhere yet but we've seen plenty of ideas


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## Lamia (May 22, 2010)

*takes wrestling guy's thread behind the woodshed a gunshot rings out*


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## Fat Brian (May 22, 2010)

"Old Yeller ! Old Yeller !"


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## moore2me (May 23, 2010)

Did someone call for the . . . 

View attachment KILLER.JPG


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