# Children pushing to outlaw the word obese in the UK



## superodalisque (Apr 14, 2010)

a group of children in the UK would like the word obese outlawed in their community because they find the word stigmatizing discouraging and offensive.

this is all mixed in with other issues because its a morning show but an interesting discussion if you have the time.

BBC UK discussion Emma Britton with international size acceptance advocate Fatima Parker and others: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0077w31/The_Morning_Show_with_Emma_Britton_14_04_2010/


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## CastingPearls (Apr 14, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> a group of children in the UK would like the word obese outlawed in their community because they find the word stigmatizing discouraging and offensive.
> 
> BBC UK discussion Emma Britton with international size acceptance advocate Fatima Parker and others: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0077w31/The_Morning_Show_with_Emma_Britton_14_04_2010/


Because it's a medical term- is that even possible? Im not defending--words don't hurt me but I'm very curious about modern censorship in the UK.....


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## superodalisque (Apr 14, 2010)

i'm not sure of the particulars and i want to look for more information. it seems that the children attach the meaning to being unhealthy and being morbidly obese and impending death. they also seem to feel it gives people the ammunition to abuse them with health as an excuse which might be a trigger to eating disorders. they think softer words should be used for children like fat or chubby or chunky or something more encouraging to exercise and healthy eating instead of making them less likely to take part in healthy activities. they are worried that the word had more of a potential scaring or traumatizing children into a different behavior. they want the word left off public literature pertaining to children. the interviewer spoke of people who are not in medicine using a clinical medical term to categorize people. so maybe they want the term reserved for experts? i don't think they want their opinion forced down people's throat. but i think perhaps they want an overall agreement to perhaps limit the use to the word to a qualified medical environment? however they want their request taken they've got an interesting discussion going about how weight should be approached and the bullying often attached to the term obesity. i think its a really great discussion in view of the attention given to it lately.


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## superodalisque (Apr 14, 2010)

here is an part of an article in the telegraph that explains the official aims: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...y-to-avoid-offending-overweight-children.html

Liverpool City Council believes the expression could stigmatise youngsters and wants to replace it with the phrase “unhealthy weight”.
If the idea goes ahead, the words “obese” and "obesity" would be dropped from all schemes and strategies aimed at improving children’s diets and health.
However, the plans have been opposed by anti-obesity campaigners who are concerned the new term could lead to the issue being trivialised.
Tam Fry, chair of the obesity prevention charity the Child Growth Foundation, said: “If you’re obese you’re obese.
“The word carries a stigmatisation but unfortunately some times schoolchildren have to be taught the realities of life.
“If you have a problem, particularly when it’s as serious as this, it needs addressing.”
The council is formally considering the plan after it was put forward by 90 members of Liverpool Schools’ Parliament (LSP) when asked to identify ways to improve the lives of youngsters in the area.
Jeff Dunn, co-ordinator of LSP, said: “The idea is that obesity has a negative connotation behind it.
“They felt unhealthy weight is more positive and a better way to promote it. The term &#8216;obese’ would turn people off, particularly young people.”
A Liverpool City Council spokesman confirmed that the recommendations are under consideration. The council is expected to give the plan the go-ahead next month.
Other plans include appointing classmates and sport stars from the city as “food heroes” to promote healthy eating in schools.


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## CastingPearls (Apr 14, 2010)

It was derision and ridicule and a total disregard for my humanity that devastated me as a child. The words were interchangeable, rotational, and could be quite creative (for example, I carried the nickname Jupiter for many years). 

While I agree it's a worthwhile debate perhaps more should be done about bullying in general rather than a specific term although those kids have my respect for organizing in the first place.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Apr 14, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> I carried the nickname Jupiter for many years.



Surely 'Juno' would have been more appropriate. You strike me as the Queen of Heaven type. :smitten:


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## CastingPearls (Apr 14, 2010)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Surely 'Juno' would have been more appropriate. You strike me as the Queen of Heaven type. :smitten:


Bless your heart. If only Rubens was alive today. Hell, I'd pose for Botero.


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## olwen (Apr 14, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> a group of children in the UK would like the word obese outlawed in their community because they find the word stigmatizing discouraging and offensive.
> 
> this is all mixed in with other issues because its a morning show but an interesting discussion if you have the time.
> 
> BBC UK discussion Emma Britton with international size acceptance advocate Fatima Parker and others: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0077w31/The_Morning_Show_with_Emma_Britton_14_04_2010/



I listened to the first 25 minutes and was kinda put off by the fact that they prefer the term "unhealthy weight." That just seems worse since you can be unhealthy and thin too.


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## superodalisque (Apr 14, 2010)

olwen said:


> I listened to the first 25 minutes and was kinda put off by the fact that they prefer the term "unhealthy weight." That just seems worse since you can be unhealthy and thin too.



that is problematic. unhealthy weight for whom? i do have a problem with unhealthy eating and lack of exercise being associated with all fat people. they did address that later in the program a little but it was glossed over. i think the real problem is people have no idea about who is healthy and who is unhealthy just by looking at them. and they need to stop making determinations like that if they aren't a doctor doing an exam. like you said, if health were not associated with weight at all it would make more sense because anyone of any weight can be healthy or unhealth . so in terms of health it really is size descrimmination to automatically assume an individual fat person must be deathly unhealthy or unhealthy on any level at all.

one problem that people aren't addressing especially in the US is that the problem with ill health might not be so much how we eat as the additives we ingest. i'm really worried about what genetically engineered foods are doing to us. hormones are added to milk. produce is developed to produce their own insecticides. after all, the generation who ate butter steaks and icecream etc... without guilt are living longer than any generation ever has. what is the real difference between them and the following generations? i think its at the very least partially the effects of chemicals and biologically engineered foods we don't fully know the effects of. for washington and other public entities its easier to blame the issue on our expanding waistlines than it is to face down big wealthy agri-chemical companies who are having a huge impact on changing how our food is produced. if you're fat its harder for you to convince people that you are being slowly poisoned. so for them it pays to keep the myth going.


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## olwen (Apr 14, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> that is problematic. unhealthy weight for whom? i do have a problem with unhealthy eating and lack of exercise being associated with all fat people. they did address that later in the program a little but it was glossed over. i think the real problem is people have no idea about who is healthy and who is unhealthy just by looking at them. and they need to stop making determinations like that if they aren't a doctor doing an exam. like you said, if health were not associated with weight at all it would make more sense because anyone of any weight can be healthy or unhealth . so in terms of health it really is size descrimmination to automatically assume an individual fat person must be deathly unhealthy or unhealthy on any level at all.
> 
> one problem that people aren't addressing especially in the US is that the problem with ill health might not be so much how we eat as the additives we ingest. i'm really worried about what genetically engineered foods are doing to us. hormones are added to milk. produce is developed to produce their own insecticides. after all, the generation who ate butter steaks and icecream etc... without guilt are living longer than any generation ever has. what is the real difference between them and the following generations? i think its at the very least partially the effects of chemicals and biologically engineered foods we don't fully know the effects of. for washington and other public entities its easier to blame the issue on our expanding waistlines than it is to face down big wealthy agri-chemical companies who are having a huge impact on changing how our food is produced. if you're fat its harder for you to convince people that you are being slowly poisoned. so for them it pays to keep the myth going.



Yes, exactly!


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 14, 2010)

It's not the words that are the problem.. it's the attitude behind them. Outlawing a word will do nothing to change that.


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## Nutty (Apr 15, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> It's not the words that are the problem.. it's the attitude behind them. Outlawing a word will do nothing to change that.



Very sensible. If they do outlaw the word obese, then all the negative attributes of that word will only manifest in another.


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 15, 2010)

Exactly. Plus I honestly think it makes "us" (those who believe in SA) look whiny and even petty. There are way more important battles to fight.


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## stldpn (Apr 15, 2010)

I believe that obesity in children is still something that we should be somewhat concerned about. If only because parents and society in general should be concerned when a disease like diabetes goes from being diagnosed mostly in senior citizens to a mid life disease, and now the numbers of twenty year old college students who are dealing with it are growing. Obesity is only one indicator, but it can be powerful indicator since we know that there is a correlation between the genes and hormones that make us gain more easily and the processes that make us insulin resistant. I for one don't want to see a generation of obese children become a group of insulin resistant adults that die young and horribly because there's simply nothing to be done for them.

On the other hand, because of the stigma attached to obesity I don't think it's fair to attach the label to a child who may or may not become an unhealthy obese adult. It feels akin to giving up on them being healthy, and happy adults because labeling a child means that they and their parents are more likely to just accept the weight in the most negative way possible and give up on the idea of being healthy. 

Do I think things like fast food should be ripped off of school menus? Yes
Do I think we need to get serious about putting day to day easy to apply nutrition tips into curriculum from pre-k to HS? absolutely
Do I think it will be 100% effective? No, but putting simple information out there for kids can be educational as well as good for them. Asking "Do you know what Disodium hydrogen phosphate is? why it's in your food? what else it's used for and why it may not be good for you?" can be the start of helping them to know more about their own bodies than we did at that age.


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## KittyKitten (Apr 15, 2010)

I fucking hate that word, it's an ugly ugly word--Obese. It just drips with hatred.


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## Nutty (Apr 15, 2010)

I prefer words like fluffy, you know, cheerful words


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## CastingPearls (Apr 16, 2010)

Words don't bother me. The sentiment behind them does.


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 16, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> Words don't bother me. The sentiment behind them does.



word word word word.


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## superodalisque (Apr 16, 2010)

the word doesn't bother me personally because i don't take that kind of stuff in. but, i do have empathy for children and their take on it. and it does piss me off that people who know nothing about health are using it to frighten and traumatize them. i was encouraged by the fact that they didn't seem to find that the word fat, chunky, pudgy etc... hurt them as much.

IMO i think the word obesity gives people the excuse to hide their fat hatred behind a veil of "concern" about our health. we all know the types. many of us have them in our own family. its interesting how the same people don't care if we engage in health risking activities like taking amphetamine based diet aids that damage our hearts--such as Fen Fen or high risk surgery when its not necessary. a lot of the same people do drugs, drink, drunk drive and smoke even around their children. but somehow that doesn't seem to be a problem for them. hey, if a fat person is endangering someone's health its only thier own. at least if we are in that position we aren't putting everyone else we come into contact with in some kind of danger. we know this is all really mainly about what we look like. and thats why actually assessing our health is not a concern with people like that. if people really cared about a fat person's health they'd have that health analyzed by a professional before judgements were cast. sometimes i get the sneaking suspicion that they don't do that because deep down they know that many of us are not in bad health. if that were not true then what could they justify hanging all of their prejudice on?

i'm encouraged that a lot of doctors are now stepping away publicly from the idea that fat always means someone is unhealthy. they are realizing the misery its creating. i think they get it that other people who are unqualified use they word and the seeming authority behind it to judge and bully fat people and diminish their self esteem to a point that they give up on taking care of their health and going to the doctor. a lot of fat people enjoy swimming and exercise--the very thing that helps us. why aren't they out doing it more? only because of all of the crazily abusive people they have to face everyday. who is to say that a lot of our health problems don't have a huge component of the affects of the depresssion many people suffer from feeling embattled over being fat all of the time? the effects of depression on health has much better documentation that the effects of fat on health.

i do agree that any word can express hatred. but maybe we are a bit more able to demystify words like fat and chunky because they only express what we look like--which does not have to be bad or unhealthy? but there is really no way to demystify obesity especially with the word morbid people often like to attach to it. maybe disallowing the use of the word in an organized sense by people in authority who really are not qualified to assess health, might draw a line somewhere about the personal judgements people can make about us as individuals? i'm not sure. but i was pleased that an entire community is at least thinking sensitively about what the impact of what they say to fat children is doing to them. who knows if it would help. it would be interesting to see. i think, like Olwen said, it would depend a lot on whether they could reclassify "unhealthy weight" as unhealthy eating for everyone, since weight does not equal health independently.


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## Jes (Apr 16, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> It's not the words that are the problem.. it's the attitude behind them. Outlawing a word will do nothing to change that.



i don't know about that. There's a great deal of power in naming. 

i'm not suggesting that all problems will go away because of the presence, or lack of, a specific word, but...well...semantics!


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## superodalisque (Apr 16, 2010)

Jes said:


> i don't know about that. There's a great deal of power in naming.
> 
> i'm not suggesting that all problems will go away because of the presence, or lack of, a specific word, but...well...semantics!



exactly, words have a creative ability. especially with naive children--they internalize that crap. it makes you wonder what it does to someone when you tell them they are going to get sick and die just because they are fat. i think we can all remember when we were young and people were acting as though we were so huge, and sometimes we felt huge. then when you look back on your photos as an adult you find you weren't large at all. it was just someone pushing their fat phobia into your psyche. people sensitive to that were made miserable for absolutely no reason at all.

i remember once one of my nephews went to spend the weekend with one of our relatives who has a serious issue with body image. she is older and a little pudgy. he was a very slim ( by anyone's standard) 8 yr old boy. she told him that he was getting fat and he needed to be careful about what he ate. he was vey disturbed and talked to me about it when he came home. i took him to the doctor for his annual well child visit a few weeks later. the doctor had to go as far as calculating his BMI for him and showing him that he was actually a bit under the suggested weight on the chart. how many more children are crazy adults doing this stuff to with only their mouth as a weapon against the innocent and impressionable? adults know people like that are crazy but children don't. 

maybe we need to start shaming people about what they say to fat children and have institutions behind us saying that this is not an appropriate way to talk to people. they have to know its not acceptable to work out their own personal frustrations easily on someone they feel can't defend themselves. maybe telling them publicly in front of everyone that their words have a demoralizing effect and are even counter productive to the very aims they claim they have would put a sock in some of it. its not the same thing exactly, but in the 70s a new social consciousness came about. one of the main things it did was shame people who were verbally abusive and disrespectful of the humanity of people with disabilities, people who had addictions and people who had been victims of rape and incest. somehow fat was over looked. maybe we need to go back and humanize fat to people so that they know they are required to respect the person behind it more often.


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 17, 2010)

Yeah, but if the anti-fat attitude persists (which it will), you don't think they'll come up with a different word for it? And if (when) they do, what will you do then? Outlaw that word? Then what..?


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## olwen (Apr 17, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> Yeah, but if the anti-fat attitude persists (which it will), you don't think they'll come up with a different word for it? And if (when) they do, what will you do then? Outlaw that word? Then what..?



It is both the word and the meaning behind it. The problem I have with the word "obese" is that it has long been used as a medical/scientific term, which seems to me to give it more power than some other word would. That it is a medical term makes it more legitimate in the eyes of most people and therefore scarier. Obese means "death fat," yet we aren't prone to say that. If we did it would scare people even more I think. I prefer the word "fat" myself.


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## fatlane (Apr 17, 2010)

Haters gonna hate. Get rind of one word, another will show up to take its place.


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## CastingPearls (Apr 17, 2010)

fatlane said:


> Haters gonna hate. Get rind of one word, another will show up to take its place.


All excellent points, but I have to stick with this one. If all the bad words are banned, hateful people will only create new ones. Educate children on bullying-- that THAT is what is truly unacceptable. Why aren't fat people accepted as part of our great diversity?


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 18, 2010)

olwen said:


> It is both the word and the meaning behind it. The problem I have with the word "obese" is that it has long been used as a medical/scientific term, which seems to me to give it more power than some other word would. That it is a medical term makes it more legitimate in the eyes of most people and therefore scarier. Obese means "death fat," yet we aren't prone to say that. If we did it would scare people even more I think. I prefer the word "fat" myself.



Yeah, but there needs to be some word to describe fat/large in a medical sense. Obese it terrible, so let's say we outlaw it and come up with something new.. you don't think that new word would still have a negative connotation because of the existence of the negative anti-fat attitude?


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## olwen (Apr 18, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> Yeah, but there needs to be some word to describe fat/large in a medical sense. Obese it terrible, so let's say we outlaw it and come up with something new.. you don't think that new word would still have a negative connotation because of the existence of the negative anti-fat attitude?



I think words have a lot of power no matter what. For example car companies started selling "pre-owned" cars not "used cars." At first I thought it was annoying and stupid but then I thought that it was a brilliant marketing move. They make owning a used car sound better than it probably is or even needs to be, and the words "pre-owned" did make me think differently about used cars, when I didn't even realize I wasn't thinking about used cars. 

When I write copy I have to be conscious of how words will affect the reader's attitude about the product. Adjectives become offerings to the gods of consumption. Those words, they matter.

I like "fat" because it is descriptive and matter of fact. Fat is fat is fat. It can be clinical or demeaning or celebratory, but no matter how you spin it, in the end it's still fat. Simple. But like used cars, the words we chose make us think about fat in different ways. So how do we want those kids to be thinking about their size? Do we want to invoke pride or fear? You are right in that if we put positive intention behind it, the words will have a different meaning, but if kids are used to hearing negative intention in the word obese, then changing it will take some doing. Easier to pick a new more neutral word that can get them on the path to thinking differently about the original word. That's why I think words matter so much. That's my opinion anyway.


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## CastingPearls (Apr 18, 2010)

olwen said:


> I think words have a lot of power no matter what. For example car companies started selling "pre-owned" cars not "used cars." At first I thought it was annoying and stupid but then I thought that it was a brilliant marketing move. They make owning a used car sound better than it probably is or even needs to be, and the words "pre-owned" did make me think differently about used cars, when I didn't even realize I wasn't thinking about used cars.
> 
> When I write copy I have to be conscious of how words will affect the reader's attitude about the product. Adjectives become offerings to the gods of consumption. Those words, they matter.
> 
> I like "fat" because it is descriptive and matter of fact. Fat is fat is fat. It can be clinical or demeaning or celebratory, but no matter how you spin it, in the end it's still fat. Simple. But like used cars, the words we chose make us think about fat in different ways. So how do we want those kids to be thinking about their size? Do we want to invoke pride or fear? You are right in that if we put positive intention behind it, the words will have a different meaning, but if kids are used to hearing negative intention in the word obese, then changing it will take some doing. Easier to pick a new more neutral word that can get them on the path to thinking differently about the original word. That's why I think words matter so much. That's my opinion anyway.


Another medical term for for it is adipose tissue. I know this unfortunately because I have a rare adipose immuno-suppressive condition. 

A point can be made for a more positive marketing type strategy--adipositivity anyone? but any word can be used as a weapon. Especially one as divisive and condemning as obese. But I doubt if the word/term will ever fall out of usage because its 'medical terminology' status renders it automatically neutral, which IMHO is BS.


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## Nutty (Apr 18, 2010)

What I personally think is that instead of calling people fat,obese,fluffy,chubby, etc, we should call them attractive.


btw sorry you have immuno-supressive condition


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 18, 2010)

Yeah, I understand what you're saying and I think to an extent you're right. It's just that I think the attitude behind it will ultimately prevail.


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## CastingPearls (Apr 18, 2010)

It's okay Nutman. It's got a very colorful name called Adiposa Delorosa, or Painful Fat. But right now the pain is minimal and manageable and I mostly have bad fatigue to deal with.


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## Nutty (Apr 18, 2010)

Is it cureable?


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## CastingPearls (Apr 18, 2010)

No. But it won't kill me.


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## olwen (Apr 18, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> Another medical term for for it is adipose tissue. I know this unfortunately because I have a rare adipose immuno-suppressive condition.
> 
> A point can be made for a more positive marketing type strategy--adipositivity anyone? but any word can be used as a weapon. Especially one as divisive and condemning as obese. But I doubt if the word/term will ever fall out of usage because its 'medical terminology' status renders it automatically neutral, which IMHO is BS.



Oh yeah, I forgot about "adipose." 

...wait, which word are you talking about being neutral, "adipose" or "obese?" Neither of those words is neutral to me. 



thatgirl08 said:


> Yeah, I understand what you're saying and I think to an extent you're right. It's just that I think the attitude behind it will ultimately prevail.


 I understand what you are saying too, but I hope that attitudes can be and will be changed eventually no matter how it happens.


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## CastingPearls (Apr 18, 2010)

They aren't neutral to me either but as acceptable medical terminology (acceptable within the medical community) it's (obesity is what I was referring to) not going away anytime soon. Although it would be nice.


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## olwen (Apr 18, 2010)

CastingPearls said:


> They aren't neutral to me either but as acceptable medical terminology (acceptable within the medical community) it's (obesity is what I was referring to) not going away anytime soon. Although it would be nice.



Ah. It would be nice.


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## thatgirl08 (Apr 18, 2010)

olwen said:


> I hope that attitudes can be and will be changed eventually no matter how it happens.



This is one thing we can absolutely agree on.


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## CastingPearls (Apr 18, 2010)

To play devils advocate here--because there are diseases and conditions having to do with actual fat (mine mentioned in prior posts) or adipose tissue, it's not 'we' who decide these terms. But, if we did have to choose a medical term in an ideal world--any ideas? There HAS to be a term. You can't write a diagnosis or put a claim in to insurance or write in a medical journal unless it whatever it is can be clearly labeled. It IS identified but it must be labeled.

Again I say it isn't the words. No matter what word, no matter how innocuous, hateful people will use it as a weapon. Fluffy, for example is spoken with contempt by the same hateful people. It's the sentiment behind the words. ANY word can be spoken with contempt and a sneer.

We took back the word fat, just as gays took back the word queer. We should take back all the words we see fit to take to give them less effectiveness as negative connotations. 

I think these kids have a great idea and celebrate them regardless of whether their proposal or protest succeeds. IMHO they're already winners.


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## superodalisque (Apr 18, 2010)

thatgirl08 said:


> Yeah, but there needs to be some word to describe fat/large in a medical sense. Obese it terrible, so let's say we outlaw it and come up with something new.. you don't think that new word would still have a negative connotation because of the existence of the negative anti-fat attitude?



maybe obese would be fine if it could only be used by an actual medical professional instead of some ignorant medically unqualified person in some kind of authoritative position throwing it around to try and scare someone?


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## fatlane (Apr 18, 2010)

"You're obese!"
"Yeah, well, you're an asshole, and there's no diet for that!"


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## musicman (Apr 18, 2010)

fatlane said:


> Haters gonna hate. Get rid of one word, another will show up to take its place.



Absolutely right! Anyone who thinks that changing a word is an effective way to combat discrimination is very naive, and plays right into the haters' game. Allowing any person or group to take away certain words simply diminishes the richness of human language. You have to attack those who profit (either politically or financially) from fat hatred. The language they use is irrelevant.


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## olwen (Apr 18, 2010)

musicman said:


> Absolutely right! Anyone who thinks that changing a word is an effective way to combat discrimination is very naive, and plays right into the haters' game. Allowing any person or group to take away certain words simply diminishes the richness of human language. You have to attack those who profit (either politically or financially) from fat hatred. The language they use is irrelevant.



Taking away words diminishes the human language? Huh? No. Humans will never be at a loss for words. Every language has the words it needs for the concepts that culture if familiar with and if a culture is lacking it can borrow words from another one. There are a lot of words that exist now that didn't exist 60 years ago.


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## superodalisque (Apr 19, 2010)

musicman said:


> Absolutely right! Anyone who thinks that changing a word is an effective way to combat discrimination is very naive, and plays right into the haters' game. Allowing any person or group to take away certain words simply diminishes the richness of human language. You have to attack those who profit (either politically or financially) from fat hatred. The language they use is irrelevant.



do you really think nothing has changed since people stopped calling folks with physical challenges retarded , spastic, etc...? i think it has. most people have stopped using the N. word in public as though its acceptabe even if they do think it in private. people not allowing it to be said in public reinforces the wrongness of it. did that cut down on obvious racism? i'd say yes over time society and its insitutions have gotten to be much friendlier towards those groups. instead of being a spastic or n N. someone actually gets to be a person. they get to be a person with a physical challenge or a person of color. IMO i think society needs a big kick in the butt to remember that fat folks are persons too. we have feelings just like anyone else. 

allowing institutions or people representing them to use language in speech and their literature in a non professional way without the recognition of another's humanity creates some kind of atmosphere where abuse and inequality can occur. sure people on the street may still act out of step, but those people are considered to be unnaturally cruel and abnormal by most people now. it would be nice if it was finally thought to be cruel and abnormal to try to scare a child into thinking he/she might die or become obese if they ate a snicker bar or that if they are fat already their life is basically over if they don't become thin.

IMO part of the reason adults are so emotionally damaged now is because people felt so free to abusive with thier mouths towards them as children. at some point i think fat people need to be able to say what they find acceptable or not acceptable, or what hurts them and what doesn't and why. thats part of our confidence. its good we are able to say "i don't like it!". its not as though fat kids somehow deserve to be scared to death or made to feel insecure. i'm glad they and the people who love them can say so and do something about it. at least they aren't being quiet and allowing people to continually make them feel less than human. all i think they are getting at is that they are kids just like any other kids and they want to be treated that way. whats so bad about that?


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## midnightrogue (Apr 19, 2010)

these scouse brats need a slap before being sent on their thieving way.......


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## fatlane (Apr 19, 2010)

Instead of the "N Word", people now talk about "changing demographics" with the same racist overtones in their voices. Changing the words doesn't change the feelings behind them.


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## stldpn (Apr 20, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> IMO part of the reason adults are so emotionally damaged now is because people felt so free to abusive with thier mouths towards them as children. at some point i think fat people need to be able to say what they find acceptable or not acceptable, or what hurts them and what doesn't and why. thats part of our confidence. its good we are able to say "i don't like it!". its not as though fat kids somehow deserve to be scared to death or made to feel insecure. i'm glad they and the people who love them can say so and do something about it. at least they aren't being quiet and allowing people to continually make them feel less than human. all i think they are getting at is that they are kids just like any other kids and they want to be treated that way. whats so bad about that?



But what we find acceptable or unacceptable is going to vary a lot from generation to generation and more importantly from individual to individual. Then you get the people who feel that only certain people should be allowed to say certain things and others won't be able to use a word without being offensive. Adipose tissue and obese are part of the medical terminology. I don't think they're going anywhere quickly. You're in a hearts and minds type situation, and when it comes to that more people are likely to be changed on an individual level. Something along the lines of being clear with family and friends that you don't find the usage of certain words to be proper or kind.


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## superodalisque (Apr 20, 2010)

fatlane said:


> Instead of the "N Word", people now talk about "changing demographics" with the same racist overtones in their voices. Changing the words doesn't change the feelings behind them.



no, but it changes how far they can go with the BS. unrestrained language means everyone is in agreement. if you have to restrain it it implies that something might be wrong with the central thought. some might disagree with you. there might even be a consequence. i don't care how people actually feel. i care about what they think they can get away with doing to me.


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## superodalisque (Apr 20, 2010)

stldpn said:


> But what we find acceptable or unacceptable is going to vary a lot from generation to generation and more importantly from individual to individual. Then you get the people who feel that only certain people should be allowed to say certain things and others won't be able to use a word without being offensive. Adipose tissue and obese are part of the medical terminology. I don't think they're going anywhere quickly. You're in a hearts and minds type situation, and when it comes to that more people are likely to be changed on an individual level. Something along the lines of being clear with family and friends that you don't find the usage of certain words to be proper or kind.



i get where you are coming from, but IMO its time for fat people to stop pussyfooting around about getting respect from society. sure the meanings of words change. the intentions change. but people need to start somewhere and have a concrete way of saying "you are going to give me my respect". the line is here. when black people said don't call me N. it changed something. they were willing to yell, physically fight, take it to court, or anything else they had to do to suppress it. they had set a perimeter that something negative that was openly directed at them was no longer acceptable, and their position in society began to change. they said NO! now people from the younger generation love the word and play with it a lot. why? because someone took the power out of the word and what it represented for someone else. they romanticize racism and the idea that they suffer from it and know what it is. but, thank goodness they really have no idea at all. a lot of young people in rap think they were responsible for demystifying the N. word. but truthfully it was dymystfied a long time ago when the first person who wanted to say it had to think about it twice and then decided against it. 

i think thats what fat people should do about obesity or any other word they don't like. they need to take control of those words, own them and give out the royalties to use them to the people they chose to because they describe who we are. its time to say no one can define us but us. it doesn't have to make any sense to anybody but fat people and we can even disagree about it. and if even just some of us don't like something, people should feel they need to be darned careful about using it. right now no one cares what we think about what they say to us. maybe its time we started making them care? there has been a lot of begging whining explaining and crying for respect. maybe its time, with the help of the people who love us, to start telling people how they are going to behave toward us?


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