# Is there any fat acceptance left in society at large?



## Paul Delacroix (Apr 12, 2013)

As I see it, society came fairly close to almost relaxing its thin supremacy by the late Nineties. Unfortunately around that point, the mass media began its anti-fat crusade, which amounted to *The Diet Empire Strikes Back*. Then came the relentless tongue lashing about the "epidemic" with its endless photos of headless fat people on the News, the relentless selling of WLS on TV reports, and then, after a few years, the tidal wave of nutritional junk science that made McDonald's its primary target. 

And then after the anti-fast food wave, the low-carb diet fad began, which is still with us today in the form of the Paleo Diet. 

To add more pressure, the government has begun using a heavier and heavier hand with the "health" issue. The acceptance of the idea that fat causes heart attacks and diabetes is more universal than it ever was...any flicker of fat acceptance that makes through the Internet will now be met by criticism and warnings that "we shouldn't encourage obesity." For example, the two Swedish mannequins that surfaced recently--which had _athletic-looking _builds--but generated controversy because they were plus-sized and some people actually expressed a liking for them that way. (_Horrors!!!) _ I have my doubts that in the past plus-sized mannequins would have even raised an eyebrow, or become a news story at all.

To make matters worse, any time the beauty issue comes up, there is a sort of political correctness at work, by which, if you express a preference for a woman with a heavier figure, you'd better damned well express it in a delicate and vague fashion, or you will be attacked by someone who accuses you of bashing naturally thin women. This dynamic doesn't seem to flow the other way, for some reason. (Even though naturally fat women probably outnumber naturally thin women 10 to 1.)

I would say at this stage there are certainly more fat people in our culture, but things have regressed considerably. Not quite as bad yet as they were in the anorexic 1970s, but the mild relaxation of body tyranny we saw in the 80s and 90s is now gone. We have lost a lot of ground.

But that's just my opinion. Maybe I am seeing the glass as "half empty." What do you think?


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## superodalisque (Apr 12, 2013)

i'd say the trick to seeing it is to stop watching media for public opinion and actually watch and talk to real people. real human beings are not all as shallow as they'd like you to believe. and most of the talk about sexual attraction is aimed at the sexually inexperienced. after all if they didn't think they were a pariah the media couldn't sell them much. if the majority of america is "overweight" there must be at least some fallow ground out there composed of people who'd like to be valued for who they are.


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## Paul Delacroix (Apr 12, 2013)

That is very enlightened, so I suppose that's a way of looking at the glass "half full."


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## drew_edwards (Apr 13, 2013)

I think it all comes down to buisness. Hollywood thrives on being able to sell an image and they more control they have over an image the easier it is to sell. Therefore they put forth ONE male body type and ONE female body type. Then try to sell the idea that every person alive is attracted to them.

But the truth is people are more complex. Tastes are extremely varied. That really, that should be okay. But it's harder to sell. So it gets shoved aside.


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## drew_edwards (Apr 13, 2013)

I wanted to add, the fact that it is the diet INDUSTRY should strike a chord with everyone. That means it's less about well being and more profit. Fear mongering has long been a way to create a customer base. 

Now, I'm all for everyone having a healthy lifestyle. But crash dieting and absurd concepts like "low-carb" aren't the way to it. Nor do I believe that there is one "diet" that is best for every single person. 


The bottom line is that these people are mostly after your money. If you want to get healthy, instead of looking to some diet fad it's better to use common sense thinking. 


I think that there should be more dialogue about body type and realistic goals for folks as well. My wife works out two hours a day. She does turbo kick, yoga,strip aerobics,and zumba along with weight training. She is still a plus-sized woman and she is likely to always be one. Because that is her body type and in a perfect world that would be ok. 

But if you were ask people who is the healthier of the two of us...I think most folks would say me. Why? Because I am relatively thin. But I'd be the first person to tell that I don't think that is true. I work out, but not nearly as hardcore. 

Regardless, I think the world would be a lot better if everyone just tried to be the best,possible,version of themself instead of trying to live up to some make believe beauty ideal anyway. 


Ok. Rant over. For now.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Apr 13, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> i'd say the trick to seeing it is to stop watching media for public opinion.



Amen. Remember that the media -- whether print, broadcast, or online -- depend largely on advertising for income. The first rule of journalism is "Don't say or write anything that might upset a major advertiser." And the weight-loss industry, with an annual income of twenty billion dollars (or thirty billion, or fifty billion, depending on whose figures you read) is a very major advertiser. The media will continue to say what they're paid to say; if you want to believe it ...well, you'll make them very happy.


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## drew_edwards (Apr 13, 2013)

In the late 90's there was a lot of talk about body typing and body type diveristy. But over the last decade and a half much of that seems to have gone out the window.


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## stevenbbwlvr (Apr 14, 2013)

She's the computer geek gal on "Criminal Minds." Is she ever hot!


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## musicman (Apr 14, 2013)

The answer to the OP's question is "NO", in my opinion. After many years in the fat acceptance movement, I don't believe there can be any form of societal fat acceptance, as long as the media makes trillions of dollars from the weight loss industry. The media likes to paint themselves as progressive and enlightened, but they will destroy anyone to make a few bucks. If there were as much money to be made by oppressing ethnic minorities as there is in hating fat people, I can guarantee that ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, and the New York Times would be leading the charge to re-enslave blacks and other people of color.

And can we guess why the government is so involved? That's right, campaign contributions from the weight loss industry! Nobody in government cares about your health. It's all about cold hard cash.

Given the tremendous amounts of money arrayed against fat people and their admirers, I believe the only successful form of fat acceptance happens on an individual basis, and I've seen it happen plenty of times in NAAFA, and on this website, and in other venues. It suddenly dawns on a fat person or a fat admirer that they don't have to accept other people's standards of beauty and worth, and that their own lives have value independent of arbitrary group judgments. That is a wonderful thing to observe, and it is the primary form of fat acceptance that I support and encourage.


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## gangstadawg (Apr 14, 2013)

musicman said:


> The answer to the OP's question is "NO", in my opinion. After many years in the fat acceptance movement, I don't believe there can be any form of societal fat acceptance, as long as the media makes trillions of dollars from the weight loss industry. The media likes to paint themselves as progressive and enlightened, but they will destroy anyone to make a few bucks.  If there were as much money to be made by oppressing ethnic minorities as there is in hating fat people, I can guarantee that ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, and the New York Times would be leading the charge to re-enslave blacks and other people of color.
> 
> And can we guess why the government is so involved? That's right, campaign contributions from the weight loss industry! Nobody in government cares about your health. It's all about cold hard cash.
> 
> Given the tremendous amounts of money arrayed against fat people and their admirers, I believe the only successful form of fat acceptance happens on an individual basis, and I've seen it happen plenty of times in NAAFA, and on this website, and in other venues. It suddenly dawns on a fat person or a fat admirer that they don't have to accept other people's standards of beauty and worth, and that their own lives have value independent of arbitrary group judgments. That is a wonderful thing to observe, and it is the primary form of fat acceptance that I support and encourage.



ok for the first thing I highlighted in red look at the prison system including private prisons.

for the second highlighted thing when do they really go after FAs?


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## superodalisque (Apr 14, 2013)

gangstadawg said:


> ok for the first thing I highlighted in red look at the prison system including private prisons.
> 
> for the second highlighted thing when do they really go after FAs?



yep that is way outside of reality. since when do dirty looks and nasty comments compare to lynching, raping, kidnapping and slavery. first thing to do is to get real and put things into their proper context. but another thing to do is to take a page out of the civil rights movement and stop giving in to social pressure so easily as waaay too many fat people and their "admirers" often do.


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## drew_edwards (Apr 15, 2013)

The most I feel I experience from society as a "FA" is confusion or disbelief. Which isn't pleasant, but I'm not sure if I feel oppressed or anything.

Having said that, I'd love to see it represented in fiction/pop culture. more.


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## Paul Delacroix (Apr 15, 2013)

drew_edwards said:


> The most I feel I experience from society as a "FA" is confusion or disbelief. Which isn't pleasant, but I'm not sure if I feel oppressed or anything.
> 
> Having said that, I'd love to see it represented in fiction/pop culture. more.



I don't feel any oppression personally, but I feel it on the behalf of women.

We do need more representation.


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## Paul Delacroix (Apr 15, 2013)

drew_edwards said:


> In the late 90's there was a lot of talk about body typing and body type diveristy. But over the last decade and a half much of that seems to have gone out the window.



I think there's no question that it's been pushed aside in the past decade. The peer pressure from media and Internet is just too pervasive. 

Also, the identification of fast food as "the culprit"--which is complete nonsense--has done a lot of damage. Fatness is seen nowadays as a disease, and fast food as the cause of it. Forget _metabolism_, genetics, and all that scientific stuff. It's because of Ronald McDonald.


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## musicman (Apr 15, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> yep that is way outside of reality. since when do dirty looks and nasty comments compare to lynching, raping, kidnapping and slavery. first thing to do is to get real and put things into their proper context. but another thing to do is to take a page out of the civil rights movement and stop giving in to social pressure so easily as waaay too many fat people and their "admirers" often do.



You missed the point of my post. I never said that the mass media was lynching people; I said that if they saw a huge profit in it, they would be opposed to civil rights, just like they oppose fat acceptance. Do you disagree with that? (I think Ganstadawg understood what I was saying.)

As for FAs, has everyone forgotten the talk shows where FAs are treated like scum, and even compared to child molesters? We've repeatedly discussed them here. The demonization of all FAs is a crucial part of the media's "fat is ugly" message. They can't sell worthless diet scams if there are any quality men who like fat women. Do you disagree with that?

Bottom line: Do you think the mass media is in favor of fat acceptance? I do not, and weight loss advertising money is the reason. We have to do it ourselves, starting with self-acceptance.


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## Paul Delacroix (Apr 15, 2013)

musicman said:


> Bottom line: Do you think the mass media is in favor of fat acceptance? I do not, and weight loss advertising money is the reason. We have to do it ourselves, starting with self-acceptance.



I agree. Although I don't think there is a huge agenda to demonize FAs; I think the primary goal is to ignore us by any means possible. If we were more visible in society, the Fetish Card would be pulled out. (There is nothing more fetishistic than to expect women to have breasts the size of honeydew melons in combination with a 22-inch waist, of course...but the mass media does not agree.)

You will never see any widespread coverage of the dangers of cosmetic surgery in the Press, nor will you see much more coverage of anorexia or bulimia in the future. If anorexia was addressed, the unrealistic, artificial body standards associated with glamour would have to be addressed. They can't have that; it's a 'national conversation' that will never come up. I predict in another five to ten years, young people will not know what the word 'anorexia' means, because it's already becoming an archaic term.

At this point I think it's more a matter of silencing discussion and using junk science about "health" to counteract any body diversity that might rise up among socially conscious people.


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## AuntHen (Apr 15, 2013)

There's just too much money to be made from diet books and weight loss surgery, etc. Every day a new article or newsflash comes out stating something like "eat this, not that", "obesity is rising, people are dying". They pump that fear out into the world and society eats it up and lives in that fear.

I agree with boycotting the products/entities that promote it but a large number of actual fat people are sometimes the ones who hate fat acceptance the most. I think there is going to have to be a push back somewhere down the line. Call it a revolt if you will. Not so much in "fighting back" by getting in a war of words, that is just exhausting and for the most part pointless.

We have a lot of intelligent, highly educated individuals on our side. We could take a more positive approach in the posting/printing of our own medical and non-medical articles and literature (some of which I know has been/is being done). Facts, facts, facts. The rest of us need to carry ourselves with pride more and more and the ones who admire and are attracted to the fatties, I feel need to be more vocal about it. I understand being of afraid of being bashed but come on! at some point you have to stop hiding and living in fear... stop letting others dictate what you say/do (easier said than done I guess)... if all these people are looking at fat sites and admire fat, I have yet to notice a big showing of it in public. I think if we can keep it flowing in a positive light it will do the most good. No bashing others to get the point across. Just self love and promotion of our love for others.

These are my thoughts anyway... a bit discombobulated


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## superodalisque (Apr 15, 2013)

musicman said:


> You missed the point of my post. I never said that the mass media was lynching people; I said that if they saw a huge profit in it, they would be opposed to civil rights, just like they oppose fat acceptance. Do you disagree with that? (I think Ganstadawg understood what I was saying.)
> 
> As for FAs, has everyone forgotten the talk shows where FAs are treated like scum, and even compared to child molesters? We've repeatedly discussed them here. The demonization of all FAs is a crucial part of the media's "fat is ugly" message. They can't sell worthless diet scams if there are any quality men who like fat women. Do you disagree with that?
> 
> Bottom line: Do you think the mass media is in favor of fat acceptance? I do not, and weight loss advertising money is the reason. We have to do it ourselves, starting with self-acceptance.



i agree whole heartedly that we have to do it ourselves. so when are we going to stop allowing them to define us and start defining ourselves properly so that anyone could relate? and when are we going to stop looking to them for approval.

we also have something to do with negative opinions because we don't always put the best foot forward. often we even fall into the fat is bad thing. we often help the prejudice right along. i mean look at how many of us here are always talking about how we dislike our own bodies or how ashamed we are to be with the one we love. and yes talk shows make FAs look like child molesters---but with their help. because they talk more about sexual interests and body parts than they should in public and hardly talk about human rights, fat rights and love. their answer to discrimination has been stuff like wearing bikinis to show how sexually viable fat women are. what if black civil rights interests had approached things that way? what if in the sixties our black men in the movement had focused only on the delights of a big butt and thighs or something? instead of discussing parts why not start discussing our shared humanity with everyone else--that we have the right to love our partner like everyone else, the right to real medical diagnosis etc... that is what has made the gay community so successful. people may not be interested in acts of homosexuality but they do understand love. the focus on sexual attraction has killed us in the public because we are too interested in having people relate personally to our sexuality. some people are just not going to be attracted to fat folk and that should be okay. we need to focus on stopping the abuse aspect. do i have to be a lesbian to love my gay gfs and support their rights? no i don't. 

we may also be forgetting there are people who actually do worry a lot about fat people they love. they are truly scared for their health and do believe that people who are always talking about them being attracted sexually to their fat rather than the person are basically molesting them. think about it. if you had a sister with big boobs and a back problem and a man was approaching the situation the same way we often do in the community what would you think or feel? would you be comfortable with his insistence that she keep her big boobs and his concentration on them as a major part of his attraction for her--whether you knew if it were actually her breasts causing her back problems or not. sometimes we are so close to an issue we forget to try and understand from another person's position. we have to get better at that. 

health issues are education issues and unfortunately a run of the mill FA or fat person is not qualified to go on the air toe to toe with doctors and talk about health. we should be putting our own professionals out there with real facts other than we find it sexy and prejudice is unfair. 

i think our main problem making headway has been us. we aren't active enough. we aren't inclusive enough of people who aren't like us. we aren't allowing people to know us in venues we control. instead we hide and exclude like we are afraid or doing something wrong. i think we are often stubborn about what we really need to do to make changes. until we're willing to get serious and even make a few sacrifices things probably won't change as fast as we like. we can't even relate to and tolerate the differences in each other long enough to personally relate to each other and to reach a common ground here. where are we going to develop the skills to do that with the general public? the focus on a fairy tale magical change without the necessary work and compromise is what is really killing size acceptance.

there are seeds of acceptance in the media if you care to look. people have started the discussion but we need to help to bring it along. there were things like the Dove real women campaign sprouting up all over. mother's are concerned about their girls and the struggle over body image. there are even lots of groups where mom's are trying to curtail their "fat talk" and "diet talk" just because people aren't talking about how your sexual attraction works doesn't mean there aren't any changes. it also depends on where you concentrate our media attention. it's out there. we just have to do more to help it along-- like by watching it and paying it as much attention as we do the negative stuff. we need to to stop watching clicking on and transmitting the negative messages out there and making them more money by arguing over them on their blog pages etc...our choices have been giving the more power.


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## superodalisque (Apr 15, 2013)

i'd like to add that when the vegas bash was not so porn oriented there were lots of people who were very impressed and were not fat who wanted to join in and get educated. they were actually pretty happy about the idea of being free to be fat and beautiful or whatever else you were. we got a lot of compliments and people asking if it were a beauty pageant. i got the feeling that the positivity was really catching. but socially speaking the event was not very inclusive of those people. where are the events where we can invite and educate anyone and not have our own be so fearful of contact?


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## GordoNegro (Apr 15, 2013)

I know NAAFA isnt as strong as it was 2 decades ago, and the bbw clubs have grown to where there is an actual bbw strip club in Hunts Point Bronx, NYC.
Things are different than 2 decades ago as WLS is alot more accessible to a greater range of people, so you do have fewer frustrated fat folk. The clothing; expensive or not is more available now especially to those who love fashion and like being stylish. Fat Acceptance fights 4 major billion dollar industries; Beauty, Diet, Food and Medical in which are all trying to profit. I, included the Food industry as they knew High Fructose Corn Syrup while sweet like sugar and way cheaper than Sugar takes forever for the body to burn off unlike Glucose/Sugar. The Food Industry kept saying Sugar is bad and leads to Diabetes, but it did not focus on High Fructose Corn Syrup risks that allowed them to greater profits. 
Long story short, the best way to acceptance is to look in the mirror and be honest with yourself. If you are happy then spend more time with those who feel same, as opposed to those who don't. Life is too short trying to get others to accept you. Respect yourself and have pity for those who have so little going on in life they have to nitpick and hate on you.


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## ScreamingChicken (Apr 15, 2013)

I am not 100% sure how to interpret it but look at the MTV Movie Awards that aired last night. Rebel Wilson, decked out in a low cut, skin tight leather outfit as the hostess and Melissa McCarthy as a presenter. This would have been unfathomable five years ago.Then you have Melissa's hot streak the past few years on TV and motion pictures plus the awards and nominations she's garnered. I don't believe all this would've flown in in Hollywood a few years ago to the level it is now. In the late 90s, everyone thought Camryn Manheim was going to be THE breakout plus size actress in Hollywood who rewrote all the rules and, unfortunately, she just wasn't. Before her , it was Carnie Wilson that everyone seemed to be hanging their hopes on.

I am not saying that Hollywood is all about fat now but there certainly seems to be a more open minded approach in realizing the talent of fat actresses and their appeal to America.


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## Paul Delacroix (Apr 15, 2013)

ScreamingChicken said:


> I am not 100% sure how to interpret it but look at the MTV Movie Awards that aired last night. Rebel Wilson, decked out in a low cut, skin tight leather outfit as the hostess and Melissa McCarthy as a presenter. This would have been unfathomable five years ago.Then you have Melissa's hot streak the past few years on TV and motion pictures plus the awards and nominations she's garnered. I don't believe all this would've flown in in Hollywood a few years ago to the level it is now. In the late 90s, everyone thought Camryn Manheim was going to be THE breakout plus size actress in Hollywood who rewrote all the rules and, unfortunately, she just wasn't. Before her , it was Carnie Wilson that everyone seemed to be hanging their hopes on.
> 
> I am not saying that Hollywood is all about fat now but there certainly seems to be a more open minded approach in realizing the talent of fat actresses and their appeal to America.



I don't think Hollywood will change. Around the time of Bridget Jones' Diary, I was convinced, as you seem to be, that the quasi-anorexic standard was broken, but I was wrong. Melissa McCarthy and Rebel Wilson are the current token fat female celebrities. They come in twos or threes. Before that, it was Carnie Wilson and Camryn Manheim, as you noted, and in the Eighties, it was Nell Carter and Roseanne Barr. Nothing changed. 

There will often be an extra-curvy beauty queen type who puts on weight to the delight of the supermarket tabloids. Same thing. Delta Burke in the 80s, Anne Nicole Smith in the 90s, Jessica Simpson recently...Kim Kardashian most recently. 

It never changes. I'll believe otherwise when I see a 200+ pound actress in a leading role in a film that isn't a comedy.


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## drew_edwards (Apr 15, 2013)

Paul Delacroix said:


> I agree. Although I don't think there is a huge agenda to demonize FAs; I think the primary goal is to ignore us by any means possible. If we were more visible in society, the Fetish Card would be pulled out. (There is nothing more fetishistic than to expect women to have breasts the size of honeydew melons in combination with a 22-inch waist, of course...but the mass media does not agree.)
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## drew_edwards (Apr 15, 2013)

Paul Delacroix said:


> I don't think Hollywood will change. Around the time of Bridget Jones' Diary, I was convinced, as you seem to be, that the quasi-anorexic standard was broken, but I was wrong. Melissa McCarthy and Rebel Wilson are the current token fat female celebrities. They come in twos or threes. Before that, it was Carnie Wilson and Camryn Manheim, as you noted, and in the Eighties, it was Nell Carter and Roseanne Barr. Nothing changed.
> 
> There will often be an extra-curvy beauty queen type who puts on weight to the delight of the supermarket tabloids. Same thing. Delta Burke in the 80s, Anne Nicole Smith in the 90s, Jessica Simpson recently...Kim Kardashian most recently.
> 
> It never changes. I'll believe otherwise when I see a 200+ pound actress in a leading role in a film that isn't a comedy.




Agreed it is okay to be a plus-sized woman if you're silly. You can't be sexy,dramatic,etc. God forbid we get a plus-sized version of Lara Croft.


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## ScreamingChicken (Apr 16, 2013)

drew_edwards said:


> Agreed it is okay to be a plus-sized woman if you're silly. You can't be sexy,dramatic,etc. God forbid we get a plus-sized version of Lara Croft.



Camryn Manheim was winning an Emmy and a Golden Globe for a dramatic role albeit on televison.


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## Tad (Apr 16, 2013)

I think it is probably lost to the shifting sands of the internet, but probably 15 years or so ago I recall writing a long post on the Dimensions boards (the old boards) expressing my feeling that with a heavier population some increase in fat acceptance was probable, but what I wasnt sure of was whether it would take the form of increased acceptance of all sizes (what I hoped for), or of an expansion of what is considered normal until it again encompassed a substantial majority (what I thought more likely). From looking around me, Id say that the latter has happened.

I know that the plural of anecdote is not data, but since Im not a researcher all I have to offer as evidence is anecdotal observations.

-	far more stores carry XL and even XXL types of sizes than half a generation ago, and in general sizes have also inflated.
-	Looking around the streets and shopping malls, I see women who would certainly have been called plump when I was younger, who are wearing skimpy outfits alongside their thinner friendssomething you didnt see much of that half-generation ago
-	Addition-Elle, one of the plus-sizes chains up here, advertises its lingerie collection in TV commercials (but of course with the typical plus-sized model, which is to say curvy but far from fat)
-	Various pieces I see here and there talking about being active and healthy at any size (but the examples are never of people who are all that fat)
-	On the other hand, the lack of magazines there were out there half a generation ago promoting acceptance of all sizes, like BBW or Mode
-	The continued vilifying of the obese in the media
-	Seemingly less stores carrying substantial plus sizes collections in their actual stores (Oh, of course we have that, you can order it on-line..just dont actually bring your fat ass into our store and make real people think that fat people might be wearing the same clothes that they are).

In short, I think life is probably easier than it was for people who are, say, a size 14-16 (in regular stores, call it a 12-14 in plus size stores), but no better, or maybe worse, for those who are much bigger than that.


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## drew_edwards (Apr 16, 2013)

ScreamingChicken said:


> Camryn Manheim was winning an Emmy and a Golden Globe for a dramatic role albeit on televison.



And that was a rarity. I'm not saying it's right. But there it is.


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## bigmac (Apr 16, 2013)

Like Tad, I see far more fat people out and about today. When I was in high school in the late 70s and early 80s there were quite a few fat students. However, you never saw the truly fat ones outside of school.

Fast forward to the mid 2000s. The high school where I taught (and where my son was a student) had a similar percentage of truly fat students. However, many more of these fat students participate socially now and can be seen out and about after school and on weekends.

I also see many more fat people in the workplace.

So, overall, looks like we're making some progress.


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## ScreamingChicken (Apr 17, 2013)

Fat acceptance has a fatal flaw in today's world and that is the majority of people are fat. When you have the numbers game in your favor, it becomes increasingly difficult to convince others that you are being held back or oppressed. When the percentage of people who were fat was such a small number, it was easier to say" I am being singled out because I am not like everyone else." Now, the majority looks like me. 

Society, for the most part, has accepted the idea that fat people are here to stay. Not everyone likes it but the majority of people have accepted it. It's a quiet acceptance but an acceptance none the less.


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## Tad (Apr 17, 2013)

ScreamingChicken said:


> Fat acceptance has a fatal flaw in today's world and that is the majority of people are fat. When you have the numbers game in your favor, it becomes increasingly difficult to convince others that you are being held back or oppressed. When the percentage of people who were fat was such a small number, it was easier to say" I am being singled out because I am not like everyone else." Now, the majority looks like me.
> 
> Society, for the most part, has accepted the idea that fat people are here to stay. Not everyone likes it but the majority of people have accepted it. It's a quiet acceptance but an acceptance none the less.



What I was arguing, to put it another way, is that there is more acceptance of women in the 150-200 pound range, but I'm not so sure that it is better for those who are more like 300 pounds? Or maybe better and worse, they are more common so perhaps better accepted in some ways, but also targetted for vitriol more in others.

For men there is a weird twist on things, because there is the issue of the degree of size acceptance out there, but also the increased focus on the male body in a way that I don't think used to be there so much.... a generation ago a chunky company president was still a stereotype, these days if you are aiming to be CEO you are expected to be hitting the gym.


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## ScreamingChicken (Apr 17, 2013)

Tad said:


> What I was arguing, to put it another way, is that there is more acceptance of women in the 150-200 pound range, but I'm not so sure that it is better for those who are more like 300 pounds? Or maybe better and worse, they are more common so perhaps better accepted in some ways, but also targetted for vitriol more in others.



I think you are last sentence is pretty much on point. The hate is not as widespread but more intense by a smaller number of people than it was a few years ago (Thank you social media for this little gem  ). 

As for women more like 300 pounds, society might not be doing them any grand favors but I am not so sure that the all out assault on fatties is still real (if it ever was to begin with). Based on what i have seen locally over the past few years, the majority of women in the 300 pound range that I have seen are in relationships, gainfully employed, raising families, having active lives...worried about how others percieve thier bodies just isn't that high ranking on the their individual pecking orders.


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## superodalisque (Apr 18, 2013)

Tad said:


> What I was arguing, to put it another way, is that there is more acceptance of women in the 150-200 pound range, but I'm not so sure that it is better for those who are more like 300 pounds? Or maybe better and worse, they are more common so perhaps better accepted in some ways, but also targetted for vitriol more in others.
> 
> For men there is a weird twist on things, because there is the issue of the degree of size acceptance out there, but also the increased focus on the male body in a way that I don't think used to be there so much.... a generation ago a chunky company president was still a stereotype, these days if you are aiming to be CEO you are expected to be hitting the gym.



that's a stereotype brought on b t.v. there was a study that showed that most tCEOs are overweight.


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## superodalisque (Apr 18, 2013)

ScreamingChicken said:


> I think you are last sentence is pretty much on point. The hate is not as widespread but more intense by a smaller number of people than it was a few years ago (Thank you social media for this little gem  ).
> 
> As for women more like 300 pounds, society might not be doing them any grand favors but I am not so sure that the all out assault on fatties is still real (if it ever was to begin with). Based on what i have seen locally over the past few years, the majority of women in the 300 pound range that I have seen are in relationships, gainfully employed, raising families, having active lives...worried about how others percieve thier bodies just isn't that high ranking on the their individual pecking orders.



i don't think it's real either. most of the fat women i know are fully involved in all aspects of life. i honestly think that the need to hold on to some idea that all fat women are alone unloved undesired and not capable has more to do with fat sexual fantasy and not much with reality.


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## ScreamingChicken (Apr 18, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> i don't think it's real either. most of the fat women i know are fully involved in all aspects of life. i honestly think that the need to hold on to some idea that all fat women are alone unloved undesired and not capable has more to do with fat sexual fantasy and not much with reality.


 I agree with you, especially your second sentence. There are a number of men (not necessarily just FA's) who use the notion "all fat women are alone,unlovable, undesirable..." not just for the purpose of sexual fantasies but also as means of controlling a fat women's esteem and self worth. Rather sickening.

However, I have noticed that there are some fat women who hold on to those same thoughts but not for the purposes of sexual fantasy. These are women I have known in real life or observed through Dims over the years. Their fat is there crutch and they tend to lay all their problems in life at the door step of their weight. These women seem to be blind to the fact that they made CHOICES independent of their weight that go them in that crappy job, that lousy relationship, that miserable living arrangement etc...the list goes on.

Maybe i am just unique and lucky to be surrounded by confident BBWs and SSBBWs who are happy in their lives and comfortable in their own skins.


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## Fatfanplus (Apr 19, 2013)

Why does anyone keep looking for fat acceptance from the planet Earth?
Sorry, but it's NEVER going to be acceptable to be fat from the general population. They will tell you they care because they worry about your health, but I'd bet the farm that the truth is most people (besides FA of course) are disgusted by fat because they've been taught to be so.
Just live your life, be fat, enjoy yourself and be with people who respect you for who you are.


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## superodalisque (Apr 19, 2013)

ScreamingChicken said:


> I agree with you, especially your second sentence. There are a number of men (not necessarily just FA's) who use the notion "all fat women are alone,unlovable, undesirable..." not just for the purpose of sexual fantasies but also as means of controlling a fat women's esteem and self worth. Rather sickening.
> 
> However, I have noticed that there are some fat women who hold on to those same thoughts but not for the purposes of sexual fantasy. These are women I have known in real life or observed through Dims over the years. Their fat is there crutch and they tend to lay all their problems in life at the door step of their weight. These women seem to be blind to the fact that they made CHOICES independent of their weight that go them in that crappy job, that lousy relationship, that miserable living arrangement etc...the list goes on.
> 
> Maybe i am just unique and lucky to be surrounded by confident BBWs and SSBBWs who are happy in their lives and comfortable in their own skins.




i couldn't agree more. it much easier for some folks to believe that their life is crap because they're fat than because just maybe they aren't doing things right or they aren't even living. in fact even their fat isn't in their realm of responsibility. they have to make excuses for their size even while claiming it's supposed to be unnecessary in order to get respected. there are a god awful amount of fat people unnecessarily pretending to get fat on air. 

most of my thin friends say that they have an issue with most fat people just because they are yucky people. and i personally don't believe absolutely every fat person i meet is an angel either. i have to say i've known a whole lot of hateful fat folk who feel entitled to something no one ever gets-- full and absolute approval and respect. it doesn't matter that they often pick on people who don't deserve it and reserve the very same bullying mentality often even toward their own. granted there is bias but there isn't nearly as much as most people say. like you say i think it suits a whole lot of different needs to magnify the effects of fat prejudice. but it ends up hurting us when we cry wolf and foul when it isn't deserved.

i had a coworker once who was gay. granted gay people have a WHOLE lot more social issues and prejudices to deal with than heterosexual fat folk. anyone who says differently really has a skewed perspective. he thought i didn't like him because he was gay. one night at a friend's party we had a heart to heart talk about it. and i told him i didn't care that he was gay but i did care that he was a knit picky lil jerk. after that we got along fine and we are still very good friends nearly 20 years later.


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## superodalisque (Apr 19, 2013)

Fatfanplus said:


> Why does anyone keep looking for fat acceptance from the planet Earth?
> Sorry, but it's NEVER going to be acceptable to be fat from the general population. They will tell you they care because they worry about your health, but I'd bet the farm that the truth is most people (besides FA of course) are disgusted by fat because they've been taught to be so.
> Just live your life, be fat, enjoy yourself and be with people who respect you for who you are.



i think we should be very careful when we say what's acceptable to the general population. the general population is mostly fat or married or in relationships with fat folk. a whole lot of people are already acceptable to the many people who love them. i agree we need to stop waiting for advertising media who sells stuff to insecure people to approve of us. but at the same time we need to stop accepting their dishonest paradigm that says we are unloved and unwanted. the media is not people. corporations are not people. we ARE the people.

to be fair some thin folks do actually worry about our health. remember they've been fed a lot of lies too. if even fat folk actually believe they are unacceptable even with overwhelming numbers proving otherwise then what are we to expect of thin folk? when they do see us with health difficulties it just underscores that feeling. our weight does give us some very obvious symptoms --like mobility issues. honestly i know a whole lot of fat people with health problems just like everyone else. america is a sick nation. i don't think the concern is coming from nowhere even if it is erroneous. but just like with anything else when you're bigger you're more visible and that includes your health issues. when we are big we are more memorable. so when people see one of us with a physical issue it makes much more of mental impact than a thin person with one. thin people get ignored more often. 

so rather than being indignant angry and argumentative i think it might be more helpful to slowly educate people in a sensitive way. i have done that with a lot of my thin friends and it has made a huge impact on how they think about size and health. and often they come to me about their children who are fat just to hear another perspective. pretending that we are perfect and just hating on everyone else is not going to help much.


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## Morganer (Apr 19, 2013)

By the way, what ever happened to BBW and SSBBW popular television personalities and actors like Monique and Queen Latifah? I know Jennifer Hudson was all over the news after she "slimmed down," and struck a deal with Weight Watchers.. ???


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## ScreamingChicken (Apr 19, 2013)

Morganer said:


> By the way, what ever happened to BBW and SSBBW popular television personalities and actors like Monique and Queen Latifah? I know Jennifer Hudson was all over the news after she "slimmed down," and struck a deal with Weight Watchers.. ???


 Mo'nique had a talk show on BET that went on hiatus in 2012. Latifah had a couple of TV projects last year and was working on a new album.


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## ScreamingChicken (Apr 19, 2013)

In all honesty, I am becoming of the opinion that the fat acceptance movement is at point where it may no longer be valid. There was definitely a time when it was needed and I will not argue otherwise. But a few funny things happened on the way to the Forum:


By the late 90's, fat Americans became the majority. The numbers game had changed and a new mindset was needed to deal with it.
The internet became popular. You know had sites like Dims, you dating sites that appealed to BBWs and their admirers, and last but not least, you had internet porn. As much as this bothers some people (and I can understand why), the proliferation of BBW porn loosened a lot of hang ups towards fat women.
A younger generation that is more likely to be tolerant and in some cases, accepting of fat bodies. There is a lot more fat teenage girls then I can ever remember being 20 years ago and these young ladies more often than not have boyfriends and acceptance by their peers when compared to previous generations.

In some respects, the war is over. We beat the Evil Empire. The problem is how do you transition from the constantly fighting rebellion to the governing (I apologize for the Star Wars citations) Republic? It's just a matter of finding another gear in order to stay relevant.


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## superodalisque (Apr 19, 2013)

Morganer said:


> By the way, what ever happened to BBW and SSBBW popular television personalities and actors like Monique and Queen Latifah? I know Jennifer Hudson was all over the news after she "slimmed down," and struck a deal with Weight Watchers.. ???



and why should this matter to us? aren't there enough real BBWs and SSBBWs in all of our lives? we don't live on t.v.


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## superodalisque (Apr 19, 2013)

ScreamingChicken said:


> In all honesty, I am becoming of the opinion that the fat acceptance movement is at point where it may no longer be valid. There was definitely a time when it was needed and I will not argue otherwise. But a few funny things happened on the way to the Forum:
> 
> 
> By the late 90's, fat Americans became the majority. The numbers game had changed and a new mindset was needed to deal with it.
> ...




yes exactly. when do we finally start acting like the winners we really are?


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## Dr. Feelgood (Apr 19, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> when do we finally start acting like the winners we really are?



Each in our own time; some of us take a little longer to catch on than others. Confidence is a tender plant when it first sprouts, but it puts down strong roots. I think Screaming Chicken is right that we have passed the tipping point. Now our job is to, as Gandhi put it, "be the change you want to see." Which you are: your posts are inspirational. Thank you. :bow:


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## Yakatori (Apr 19, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> yes exactly. when do we finally start acting like the winners we really are?



Winning!

Okay, maybe not _all_ of us, but I-am....


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## Fatfanplus (Apr 20, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> so rather than being indignant angry and argumentative i think it might be more helpful to slowly educate people in a sensitive way. i have done that with a lot of my thin friends and it has made a huge impact on how they think about size and health. and often they come to me about their children who are fat just to hear another perspective.  pretending that we are perfect and just hating on everyone else is not going to help much.



Not sure if you were responding to me personally, but in any case, IMHO I'm not angry or indignant. I classify my views as realistic, at least in my experience with being a 400+ pound person on this planet. My thoughts are simple: Live your life and surround yourself with people who accept you and love you for who you are. Be who you choose to be based on your ideal and happiness. That's my recipe for a happy life.


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## EMH1701 (Apr 20, 2013)

I do not believe that society will ever be accepting of plus-sized people. Society is brainwashed regularly with "fat = bad" messages from the media. Then you have people like Michelle Obama, who are in positions of power, and even if people don't normally read a lot of fashion magazines, etc., they do watch the regular news. So when people in positions of power reiterate the "fat = bad" message, it only cements it further in the public's mind. 

Also, the stereotype of fast food is not going away. To this day, I will not eat inside a fast food restaurant unless I am with other people. I would rather grill the hamburger at home and bake the french fries myself...it's healthier and cheaper, anyway.


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## superodalisque (Apr 20, 2013)

Fatfanplus said:


> Not sure if you were responding to me personally, but in any case, IMHO I'm not angry or indignant. I classify my views as realistic, at least in my experience with being a 400+ pound person on this planet. My thoughts are simple: Live your life and surround yourself with people who accept you and love you for who you are. Be who you choose to be based on your ideal and happiness. That's my recipe for a happy life.



absolutely not . you aren't angry and indignant. just honest and that is a good thing. for what it's worth i think you definitely have it right because doing you without worrying about what "society' thinks is exactly what the fat doctor ordered. so it doesn't matter what media thinks you are still living your life. i think just by doing that you are being an awesome influence on anyone who needs it.


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## drew_edwards (Apr 22, 2013)

I think this will be a "done issue" when we have a plus-sized action heroine in a film. Or an FA character that isn't a joke or a pervert, whose tastes are just kind of besides the point. That is what "mainstream" is after all.


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## superodalisque (Apr 22, 2013)

drew_edwards said:


> I think this will be a "done issue" when we have a plus-sized action heroine in a film. Or an FA character that isn't a joke or a pervert, whose tastes are just kind of besides the point. That is what "mainstream" is after all.



lets make some and bombard hollywood and maybe create our own independently and use the net to spread them.


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## drew_edwards (Apr 23, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> lets make some and bombard hollywood and maybe create our own independently and use the net to spread them.



At the risk of being shameless, I am already doing my own tiny part. 

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100317

But honestly, I'd like to see more people doing things like this. Folks need to be outspoken and honest. And that would create REAL change.


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## superodalisque (Apr 23, 2013)

drew_edwards said:


> At the risk of being shameless, I am already doing my own tiny part.
> 
> http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100317
> 
> But honestly, I'd like to see more people doing things like this. Folks need to be outspoken and honest. And that would create REAL change.



you go!!!


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## ScreamingChicken (Apr 24, 2013)

I know I cited Rebel Wilson and Melissa McCarthy's successes earlier but I am going to turn things around ...Why exactly do so many fat people keep seeking Hollywood acceptance and validation in the form of movies and television featuring BBWs and BHMs(to a lesser extent) in starring roles? 

On a side note, with all the different niche networks that are out there, I am somewhat surprised no one has tried a BBW centric network. Think about it...you could have a programming mix of sit coms, dramas, talk shows, shows on fashion, the occasional network produced TV movie. Maybe the idea has been floated and was shot down...I don't know.


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## drew_edwards (Apr 24, 2013)

superodalisque said:


> you go!!!



Thank you kindly.


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## drew_edwards (Apr 24, 2013)

> I know I cited Rebel Wilson and Melissa McCarthy's successes earlier but I am going to turn things around ...Why exactly do so many fat people keep seeking Hollywood acceptance and validation in the form of movies and television featuring BBWs and BHMs(to a lesser extent) in starring roles?



While I am not a woman or even a "BHM" I just want to see more types of people represent in fiction. People are not uniform in appearance and there are lots of different tastes in what is "attractive." So why doesn't the media play to that more? 

With comics, it really bothers me that so many of the characters are basically a different head on the same body.


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