# The Fat and The Feminine



## lozonloz (Sep 29, 2011)

OK, this is basically a re-iteration of a topic I discussed with an old gender studies class, but I though I might see if anyone had some views here (seeing as I was the only fatty in my gender class, so we moved on from this fairly quickly).

It occurred to me when we were discussing femininity that when I was in high school I wasn't very feminine at all. I was very androgynous, more tomboyish/ male looking and never had any feminine trappings like makeup or jewelry or fitted clothes. I wore very baggy heavy metal t shirts and combats. Or three quarter length combats in summer. And Doc Martins. And I often tied my hair up and hid it under a hat.

As soon as I got involved with Fat Acceptance and the Size Community, I started doing all these feminine things. I plucked my eyebrows and sometimes wore makeup and brightly coloured feminine clothes and high heels and earrings and erm.... the pretty stuff. 

So I had a think about why that was. I think there was obviously a large dose of confidence building and feeling attractive in there that made me do these things, but I also think it was because of my socialisation in high school, and that as this changed with the wider association with fat community, this was altered.

In high school, I hung around with a group of 9-10 guys, and I was the only girl. And they were completely uninterested in me as a woman. Period. And they made it very clear that this was because I was fat. My fat set me apart from other women. Fat is not feminine, therefore I was not feminine, therefore I wasn't really a girl, and therefore not a target for possible dating (in their eyes). Any reference to myself as a girl was met with revulsion and/or mockery and so I became convinced that, as a fat being, I could never be a feminine woman.

I realise that this is just their perception and many FA's swear blind that fat women are MORE feminine, but the point I'm making is about how the perception of femininity around you can affect your own internal identification of whether you are or are not feminine. I didnt feel like a girly girl in high school, I felt like a tomboy. I feel extremely feminine now, even if I'm completely naked and their isn't a smidgin of difference in appearance between naked teenage me and naked early twenties me. Except my butt is now more epic in its dimensions. 

When I discovered fat acceptance, I got involved with a group of people who didn't let fat get in the way of who they were and who they wanted to be, and I realised I could have all the feminine things I wanted without being weird (which I know sounds bizarre) I jumped into it headfirst and discovered corsetry and leather heels. Which are AWESOME.

I'm confusing myself slightly here, but I think I'm trying to ask if other peoples perceptions of their own femininity changed depending on who they knew/ where they were in their lives and when they discovered the Fat Acceptance community.


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## CarlaSixx (Sep 29, 2011)

I may be a lil different. I absolutely do not identify myself as womanly or feminine and take offense when someone says that. Even when in makeup, long hair, a skirt and heels, I do not feel womanly or feminine. Just dressed up. But I have this duality to me. Both masculine and feminine sides. 

The Fat Acceptance world had no great effect on me in terms of feeling like a woman. Perhaps it's because I knew of the SA movement at such a young age. But I've always had two sides to me in terms of gender identity. I accept that my body is that of a female, and feel no need to change that, but I am not exclusively female. If that makes any sense. 

Perhaps the SA movement hasn't helped me in the slightest because of this identity issue. FAs love fat women because of femininity. I am not feminine. So even FAs are not attracted to me and do not accept me. It's something I've been dealig with forever and it makes it frustrating in my life.


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## seavixen (Sep 29, 2011)

My size has actually always made me feel more feminine, at least physically, since it made my curves that much more noticeable. I hung out with a lot of boys, for as long as I can remember, and I pretty much kissed them all at some point in time! lol... I don't think I was ever considered a non-girl because of my fat, but I think that really just has everything to do with attitude. I like a lot of "guy things" but have never been a tomboy per se. I'm sure that, on the whole, my size caused many, many guys/boys to not look at me as they would a thin, attractive (to them) girl/woman, but I think that's sort of different from actually perceiving me as a non-female. A lack of attraction is totally fine. I have super picky tastes in the opposite sex, too. haha. To each his own. 

That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with being or not being feminine. I think most people (of both genders) are at least a little of each. I'm hideously girly in some ways - like my voice, AHH! giggles ahoy - but then I'm also the one who owns all the tools, puts everything together, etc. lol

As to your original point, though - I think it depends on who's around you whether you identify certain things as feminine or not. The most feminine women I knew growing up WERE large women. The fat ladies wore dresses and such, makeup, were generally more girly, housewifey, so forth, while the slimmer ones were more jeans and shirts with shoulder pads people - lol - and so I have a completely opposite perception.


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## CastingPearls (Sep 29, 2011)

seavixen said:


> As to your original point, though - I think it depends on who's around you whether you identify certain things as feminine or not. The most feminine women I knew growing up WERE large women. The fat ladies wore dresses and such, makeup, were generally more girly, housewifey, so forth, while the slimmer ones were more jeans and shirts with shoulder pads people - lol - and so I have a completely opposite perception.



I had the same experience. My mother and many of her friends and many of my female relatives were fat and were all what I perceive as uber-feminine. In fact, I've mentioned it elsewhere, but my mother's best friend Lucille, was a role model because she was proud, queer and supersized, and the epitome of class and beauty for ANY size, which was pretty much unheard of back in the 70's. My 'aunt' Lucille paved the way for me personally to be comfortable in my own skin and believe that every woman is beautiful in her own way.


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## Shan34 (Sep 29, 2011)

This site has most definitely helped me in feeling feminine and accepting myself. I was already starting the process of acceptance but this site and it's wonderful people have aided the journey. 

For myself in the past my femininity has very much depended on my company. However I think that I'm growing to own my femininity regardless. 

And my entire view of femininity is changing and I'm loving the new me!


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## wtchmel (Sep 30, 2011)

For me, it's been semi opposite, when I was thinner, i seemed to be way more girly and feminine. Now that i'm fat, ive felt less girly/fem and more subdued about it. Almost as if i can't be that way because of societies views of fat people and it would look/seem comical and clownish? I know it doesn't make sense, i can't quite figure out why i am less fem then i used to be or allow myself to be. Part of it is clothing and what I'm comfortable in as well, i'm fat and tall so alot of male clothes sometimes fits better. I have no idea as to why i have 'lost' that feminine side, maybe because i don't fit societies 'beauty' mold.


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## Tracyarts (Oct 1, 2011)

I had to "find" my femininity before I ever heard about size acceptance. I reached my full 5'11" height by age 14. It was nearly impossible to fit the mold of teenage femininity being that tall. I rarely found clothes like my classmates wore that would fit, and I sometimes got hassled for dressing "too mature" when I wore what did fit. So, I settled on jeans and t-shirts for all of junior high and the beginning of high school. Around age 16 I discovered an alternative version of femininity that worked for me, and went with it. I dressed in a lot of vintage clothes, short skirts over tights, and long flowy layers with quirky accessories. This was around the time I really learned how to sew and could make and alter things to fit better, so I wasn't so limited by what I found in the stores. It was also around the time I started doing some plus-size fashion modeling and that really helped me feel comfortable in my body, and to think of my height as an asset and not a liability. My feminine identity has changed quite a bit since then though. Not too long ago, my sweetheart described me as an "earth mother" type. And that suits me just fine. 

Tracy


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## Theatrmuse/Kara (Oct 1, 2011)

I also have been described as "Earth Mother!" I kinda like that.


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## katherine22 (Oct 1, 2011)

Theatrmuse/Kara said:


> I also have been described as "Earth Mother!" I kinda like that.



The first time I thought fat was feminine was the time I was watching this couple in a restaurant and the woman was incredibly fat. She was well dressed, and her partner was so attentive to her and obviously turned on by her. It was an illusion shattering moment.


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## AmazingAmy (Oct 2, 2011)

I identify with the OP. My experience as a fat female teenager was much the same - I wasn't viewed as feminine, so I didn't see myself that way either. Self-fulfilling prophecy and all that. It wasn't just not being viewed as feminine either; there was strong protest to the idea. If the concept as me as a girl - synonymous with delicate, docile, attractive, petite (to them) - was raised, it was mocked. So yeah, I was really androgynous. I wore adult mens' clothes and kept my hair short, never even thought about make-up or my body as anything but something that gave me grief with periods and too much hair and bigness that invited abuse. In retrospect I don't know how I just got on with life when I felt so locked out of myself.


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## one2one (Oct 3, 2011)

Ive always been feminine, to a point. I was thin and a bit of a tomboy growing up because I naturally have pretty well balanced masculine and feminine sides. By my teens I was popping out my femininity all over the place. I had examples of lots of different body types (both men and women) within my sphere, so I dont think I ever associated thin with feminine (or tall with masculine either). But there was lots of pressure to be thin, lady-like, to fit into a very restrictive idea of behavior and image, and plenty of backlash when I didnt do that. Once puberty hit, my belly had no intention of conforming to a flat ideal no matter how many magazines offered advise.

But there are other aspects that make fat a feminist issue. Without actually physically assaulting someone, one of the easiest ways to hurt a woman is to attack her body image. Similarly, men get slammed for their sexuality, and its no wonder abundant woman feel bad about their curves, and men who love them wonder if theres something wrong with them. 

The same type of anxiety/control found in anorexia gets forced upon plenty of people without eating disorders because culturally were so entrenched in the idea that its healthy to count food, watch the scale every day and worry about everything that goes in our mouths, even when its not healthy at all. We dont realize we should be more concerned about whats going into our minds. 

Its as though the drive behind controlling things like reproductive rights also causes the collective voice to believe they have a right to control the shape and size of women everywhere instead of accepting them as unique, autonomous individuals. We only exist in relationship to other people and what they expect or allow us to be. We are repeatedly disconnected from our own sense of self because it doesnt serve other people well. What that does to us is seen as an acceptable loss (like missing limbs, lifelong emotional trauma and death during war), if its ever acknowledged at all.

We also tend to blame women for things they arent solely responsible for. This point was made very clear to me when I was talking to a man at a party last weekend. He has three daughters and was telling me hes noticed that girls get blamed for almost everything. When a boy falls down or gets hurt, we ask if hes OK or tell him hes fine. When the same thing happens to a girl we say, Did you hurt yourself? as though shes at fault, no matter what the circumstances.

And it finally occurred to me that it may have a lot to do with why women who arent thin are assumed to be responsible for every inch of what their bodies look like. Never mind genetic factors, the chemical compositions that are allowed to be marketed as food, underlying health issues that never get addressed by the medical profession (which maintains despite all evidence to the contrary that we are to blame), the variety of physical characteristics that are _normal within nature_ or any other aspect. 

When I graduated high school I was 5 4, about 150 lbs. and a size 14/16, I think. Mostly because I had fantastic hips, a little belly, a full backside and had nearly outgrown a DD. My waist was 10 inches smaller than my hips, and I was a Goddess. I had a body to kill for, and I had no idea that I did. I just wanted to be able to fit into those junior size 11/12 jeans my best friend could wear. I thought I was fat because thats what I was told. The worst perpetrators of prejudice in my life have often been other women. Is it any wonder we don't want to identify ourselves with them?

Given all that, it becomes easy to see why women dont have a very clear sense of themselves. Ive been there, too. I missed my goddess years, and that makes me sad and angry to have spent all those years believing I was fat before I actually was. Even now I often dont notice when someone is admiring me because I am unaware of it. Men who know me will point it out and tell me that when were out somewhere it happens a lot. It still surprises me. 

So like my masculine and feminine sides, I move back and forth between knowing Im beautiful and being unaware of it at the same time. I can chalk the insults and emotional abuse up to someone elses issues or ignorance, but I still hurt for it. Like FAs, I see how gorgeous other women who are larger really are, but sometimes I forget Im one of them. I know Im desirable but can miss the clues that someone is interested in me, unless they make it obvious. Ill pass by a mirror and notice some wonderful curve, line or shape out of the corner of my eye and do a double take, only to realize it was my image I saw.


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## Halie (Oct 3, 2011)

lozonloz said:


> I realise that this is just their perception and many FA's swear blind that fat women are MORE feminine, but the point I'm making is about how the perception of femininity around you can affect your own internal identification of whether you are or are not feminine. I didnt feel like a girly girl in high school, I felt like a tomboy. I feel extremely feminine now, even if I'm completely naked and their isn't a smidgin of difference in appearance between naked teenage me and naked early twenties me. Except my butt is now more epic in its dimensions.



This sounds very much like my experiences. By wearing a more feminine style, I feel more feminine and now attract a lot more attention. At 16 I was actually at my biggest - 24st. I was also into rock and I was unusual in the clubs/pubs I went in as I was always the largest woman in there. It was also at the height of grunge. Males and females, alike, wore a similar uniform of army jackets, black jeans and army boots which I couldn't fit into - apart from the boots.

I wore long skirts and hoodies because I thought it would hide my size and because I couldn't find clothes I liked or could be happy in. I didn't feel attractive. I became a tomboy, too. I could match my male friends drink to drink. I was also first into the mosh and could hold my own even when it got a bit hairy-scary. In fact, I could drink a fair few of them under the table and that got me some sort of weird respect. In that I was considered a laugh, one of them - someone who they could talk to and/or swear/fart/vomit in front of because I was just me - no one that they'd ever consider bumping uglies with because I was fat. I can remember one of them finding a photobooth pic of me and remarking, quite surprised, that I looked 'really pretty' in it. As if he'd never noticed it before.

I also was at my smallest some years later - 16st - and like one2one, I had the same insecurities at 16st that I did at 24st. I didn't feel any different even though I guess I looked different. I still wore tent-like skirts and couldn't bring myself to wear anything fitted or clingy. I didn't even own a pair of jeans until I was 24, I felt extremely self-concious about my thighs (where most of my weight is).

Now, at 33 I'm back up to just over 22st and it's only been in recent years and a job where I've had to change and learn how to be confident that _I've_ felt attractive and to a degree, stopped worrying and caring about what others _might_ be thinking about me. 

I can't hide or disguise my size and it's always been futile to think that I could just by wrapping a jersey around my waist. Some years ago, I would never have left the house without being completely covered and swathed even in the heat of summer just because I felt my fatness would offend. Thankfully, plus-size fashion is a lot better than it was 17 years ago. I'll happily walk about town in just t-shirt and cropped jeans. I can also wear dresses that are cut well and cling in the right place instead of billow, I wear knee-length print skirts instead of tie-dyed skirts that fell to the floor. I feel a lot happier in myself and it must show because of the compliments I receive. 

Years ago, if I were to ever get a compliment it would usually be the type of back-handed, _"You'd be really pretty if you lost weight"_ that I imagine a lot of BBWs/SSBBWs on here have also had. Now, I never hear it and if I were to? Well, I don't think I'd be able to post my reply on here


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## penguin (Oct 3, 2011)

I struggle with feeling feminine at times. I've discussions about it with my sister who also feels the same, though she's not fat. She's taller than me, so she's just shy of 6'. We're both big boned, tall, big feet, all typically unfeminine traits. She's probably found it easier than me to adjust her thinking with it, but whether that's to do with our weight differences or personality differences, I don't know.


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## violetviolets (Oct 4, 2011)

I went through fazes of being almost a tom-boy in junior high school, but onward and now I like to think of myself as feminine. At my size now I do feel a little bit of a difference to when I was thinner. At around a size 12 was when I felt the most feminine even though I was just as girly as I am now. 

The claim that fat girls are/look more feminine is bullshit to me, but maybe that is _just me_. That petite and girly ideal is also bullshit to me because as you can see in this thread and I see around me, so many larger woman ooze femininity, girly-ness or glamour or all of the above.


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## john0099roland (Nov 8, 2011)

Shan34 said:


> This site has most definitely helped me in feeling feminine and accepting myself. I was already starting the process of acceptance but this site and it's wonderful people have aided the journey.
> 
> For myself in the past my femininity has very much depended on my company. However I think that I'm growing to own my femininity regardless.
> 
> And my entire view of femininity is changing and I'm loving the new me!


for me i am a slim man , but i am sure that fat women more beutiful and more feminine ,yes of course ,than slim women,when women body more fatter i feel that i deal with femal ,diffrent from me , not like me ,and bbw made more active .
i love big women they r so cute


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## veggieforever (Nov 8, 2011)

I felt out of touch with my femininity for years until a very close female friend talked me into finding the sensual side of myself - and I did! I was always hiding behind my weight as a reason not to parade my confidence and thanks to amazing friends who get behind you and make you feel sensational I started my own little Youtube channel. Just look for Hoozafloozie and you have found me! ;o) I am finally happy and satisfied as I am - for who I am. I wear the items of clothing I never thought I could and they make me feel out of this world. I adore making videos and am making more as I speak. After years of put-downs I feel worthwhile and it was all through the love and support of an amazing friend. I find my femininity in so many different ways now and never thought I would ever have created my own little BBW channel on youtube!! xxx

http://www.youtube.com/user/hoozafloozie?feature=mhee


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