# How come since I gained weight, I have no male attention?



## Lolita13 (Sep 1, 2009)

Yet when I was thin, I had lots of male attention. I am engaged but I never get any looks anymore. I had one guy try and pick me up at a make up counter and thats it .Where are all these Fat admiring men? In fact, all I see is guys not intrestedin me and the guys I knew repulsed at how much I gained. Im sad as hell. I have a pretty face . I dont get the damn your hot and men buying me drinks anymore. Whats up with that. Please dont say its because I have a man, we used to go out when I was thin and men still would talk to me. So I think this liking fat women is BS. I live in the Philadelphia area and guys here do NOT like heavy women. Is this all an internet fantasy?


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## rollhandler (Sep 1, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Yet when I was thin, I had lots of male attention. I am engaged but I never get any looks anymore. I had one guy try and pick me up at a make up counter and thats it .Where are all these Fat admiring men? In fact, all I see is guys not intrestedin me and the guys I knew repulsed at how much I gained. Im sad as hell. I have a pretty face . I dont get the damn your hot and men buying me drinks anymore. Whats up with that. Please dont say its because I have a man, we used to go out when I was thin and men still would talk to me. So I think this liking fat women is BS. I live in the Philadelphia area and guys here do NOT like heavy women. Is this all an internet fantasy?



This phenomenon that you describe has almost become cliche and depressingly so but entire threads have been dedicated to it.
I can't and wont speak for the men in the area of the country that you live in. I also will not make assumptions toward you as a woman who was once thinner and has now changed in body shape as to why you aren't getting as much male attention at your current size. 

FAs are everywhere. But, in areas where fat is seen as more of a disease to be rid of and the pervasivness is more toward ridicule than acceptance or apathy toward size, more men are willing to hide this trait from their peers for a variety of reasons. I make no excuses for this behaviour and find it to be immature and, at one level or another, cowardly. (That is just MY opinion.) Although it may seem like there are NO FAs around, the number of them willing to put peer pressure aside and act on their preference will seem reduced greatly.

I *can* tell you however that since puberty I personally have only ever dated, with only 2 exceptions in my 20 plus years of dating life, fat women exclusively. Every woman I have looked to as a potential mate has been fat with no mistaking her as anything but. 

For me it has never been merely a fantasy to work out on the net or hide from anyone it has been a way of life relative to my sexuality as a man. If you spend time reading the FA board and talk to some of us you will realize that not only is "being" an FA real, but that many of us are exactly as I described. Yes some treat their preference of fat women as a fantasy and fetish that gets worked out on the web or on a friday night at a bar after a few drinks only to brush it under the rug again on monday morning as they sober up, but for many of us it is the only way we can function sexually with any measure of success.
Rollhandler


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## growingman (Sep 1, 2009)

Honestly I think there are men and women out there that do prefer heavy people, but it is very rare. This is a site that attracts people interested in it, so you see some interest here, but my experience is similar. When I was slim with a six pack belly women hit on me very frequently, but now that I have a keg belly, it is rare that I see a woman even flirt with me. Maybe we had both better put down the fork and pick up a jump rope


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## Shosh (Sep 1, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Yet when I was thin, I had lots of male attention. I am engaged but I never get any looks anymore. I had one guy try and pick me up at a make up counter and thats it .Where are all these Fat admiring men? In fact, all I see is guys not intrestedin me and the guys I knew repulsed at how much I gained. Im sad as hell. I have a pretty face . I dont get the damn your hot and men buying me drinks anymore. Whats up with that. Please dont say its because I have a man, we used to go out when I was thin and men still would talk to me. So I think this liking fat women is BS. I live in the Philadelphia area and guys here do NOT like heavy women. Is this all an internet fantasy?



I think many more people in society are attracted to a thinner partner, but there are also those that are attracted to a larger partner.
That is the reality.
I think you have to be happy within yourself and love your own body, and yourself, and those that are attracted to your body type will gravitate towards you regardless.


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## KHayes666 (Sep 1, 2009)

If I was engaged, I wouldn't give a damn who else was looking at me as long as my fiancee was enjoying what she sees.

Maybe instead of pouting over why you don't turn any heads on the street, you should be thankful for the one head that turns when you wake up next to him.


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## Lolita13 (Sep 1, 2009)

Im engaged , Im not dead!!! LOL. Yes I still like to receive positive attention. I have had it all my life, now I dont have it. My fiance has nothing to do with this. Im not saying I am going to cheat on him. Geez. I like to look good and be admired for beauty from men and women. I do think that is human nature to be somwhat vain. I'm saying gaining weight has worked extreemly against me and then I come on here and its another world. I do love the attention from my fiance, but I do go out in the world and interact with other people and hear OMG, you were so hot and now you gained weight. Did you have babies? Its too much already and yes my old guy friends say this to me. Telling me I have let myself go and where is that hot body etc. I hear it from females every day too. My post was started because I get so much anti fat comments EVERY single day and then I search the internet and its all this worshipig of larger women and I wonder if it was all real. Thanks Rollhandler for being very nice in your post. I wonder if gome guys are closeted fat lovers. Its hard though, even my male cosuin wont date a female over 135 pounds. I dont even feel like leaving my house anymore . I know you all probally dont know how this feels. It is heartbreaking to me to have these comments and stares everyday and also the feeling of being invisible in regards to beauty. I guess no one gets me.


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## KHayes666 (Sep 1, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Im engaged , Im not dead!!! LOL. Yes I still like to receive positive attention. I have had it all my life, now I dont have it. My fiance has nothing to do with this. Im not saying I am going to cheat on him. Geez. I like to look good and be admired for beauty from men and women. I do think that is human nature to be somwhat vain. I'm saying gaining weight has worked extreemly against me and then I come on here and its another world. I do love the attention from my fiance, but I do go out in the world and interact with other people and hear OMG, you were so hot and now you gained weight. Did you have babies? Its too much already and yes my old guy friends say this to me. Telling me I have let myself go and where is that hot body etc. I hear it from females every day too. My post was started because I get so much anti fat comments EVERY single day and then I search the internet and its all this worshipig of larger women and I wonder if it was all real. Thanks Rollhandler for being very nice in your post. I wonder if gome guys are closeted fat lovers. Its hard though, even my male cosuin wont date a female over 135 pounds. I dont even feel like leaving my house anymore . I know you all probally dont know how this feels. It is heartbreaking to me to have these comments and stares everyday and also the feeling of being invisible in regards to beauty. I guess no one gets me.



Sounds to me this is a fairly recent thing that's happened. In a few years, a lot of the positive attention you receive from people on here during the upcoming time will help you accept your body a lot better


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## nikola090 (Sep 1, 2009)

I agree with rollhandler....

but isn't a strange thing....99% of people loves being thin.....the rest is happy and proud of being a BBw....as well as....99% of man loves thin girl...and the rest loves the BBW.
And Dimensions is for us....the rest.


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## Tau (Sep 1, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Yet when I was thin, I had lots of male attention. I am engaged but I never get any looks anymore. I had one guy try and pick me up at a make up counter and thats it .Where are all these Fat admiring men? In fact, all I see is guys not intrestedin me and the guys I knew repulsed at how much I gained. Im sad as hell. I have a pretty face . I dont get the damn your hot and men buying me drinks anymore. Whats up with that. Please dont say its because I have a man, we used to go out when I was thin and men still would talk to me. So I think this liking fat women is BS. I live in the Philadelphia area and guys here do NOT like heavy women. Is this all an internet fantasy?



I don't think your problem is the weight - I think your problem is that you're basing your self esteem on other people's opinions. That's dangerous - stop doing it. There is no doubt that thin girls get more guy attention than fat ones, but why is it something you're dwelling on. I'm a very fat girl and I get hit on often - but it means nothing! So some random dude on the street thinks you look good, so what? How does that add to who you are? How does that build and enhance you? People are always going to have stupid, hurtful opinions about things that have nothing to do with them - if you take what they say to heart you're going to be an insecure, miserable, unsexy mess.

I'm not trying to be nasty here. I'm sure its very hard to have been a thin girl and then to gain weight - I've seen how my thin friends have struggled with that and there are times I will admit that I have an advantage because I've lived in this body my whole life, it didn't just arrive when I hit teenage/adulthood. That still doesn't mean you let them get you down though. Walk with pride, with the certainty that you are beautiful, f*ck what the rest of the world thinks.


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## Jay West Coast (Sep 1, 2009)

Blame, in part, other big women. To be quite fair, most men who prefer big women are a bit reserved when it comes to calling out what they like in public. It only takes a few times being repudiated by self-loathing big women to learn that you should keep your advances for other contexts. 

It's not that no one finds you attractive, you just live in a society where most people who do don't feel at liberty to say it.

I say there is nothing wrong with radiating a enough confidence in your bigness that you tempt them anyway.


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## Rowan (Sep 1, 2009)

KHayes666 said:


> If I was engaged, I wouldn't give a damn who else was looking at me as long as my fiancee was enjoying what she sees.
> 
> Maybe instead of pouting over why you don't turn any heads on the street, you should be thankful for the one head that turns when you wake up next to him.



Omg...i agree with something you say for once lol



Lolita13 said:


> Im engaged , Im not dead!!! LOL. Yes I still like to receive positive attention. I have had it all my life, now I dont have it. My fiance has nothing to do with this. Im not saying I am going to cheat on him. Geez. I like to look good and be admired for beauty from men and women. I do think that is human nature to be somwhat vain. I'm saying gaining weight has worked extreemly against me and then I come on here and its another world. I do love the attention from my fiance, but I do go out in the world and interact with other people and hear OMG, you were so hot and now you gained weight. Did you have babies? Its too much already and yes my old guy friends say this to me. Telling me I have let myself go and where is that hot body etc. I hear it from females every day too. My post was started because I get so much anti fat comments EVERY single day and then I search the internet and its all this worshipig of larger women and I wonder if it was all real. Thanks Rollhandler for being very nice in your post. I wonder if gome guys are closeted fat lovers. Its hard though, even my male cosuin wont date a female over 135 pounds. I dont even feel like leaving my house anymore . I know you all probally dont know how this feels. It is heartbreaking to me to have these comments and stares everyday and also the feeling of being invisible in regards to beauty. I guess no one gets me.



Engaged but not dead...sure....but to be engaged and be so worried about receiving male attention...that sounds a bit wonky to me. 

as far as the comments...people are cruel. You just happen to be getting it over weight. If it wasnt over weight, it could be over a crooked nose, a freakishly short limb, a stupid hairdo...etc. That's just the world and if you were some shallow narcissistic skinny prom queen before and never heard a negative word, well your choice is to either grow a thicker skin and not give a damn about what people say, or you better work damn hard to get back to that prom queen state so that you can live in a world less likely to make comments. 

*shrugs* just my two


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## TallFatSue (Sep 1, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Yet when I was thin, I had lots of male attention. I am engaged but I never get any looks anymore. I had one guy try and pick me up at a make up counter and thats it .Where are all these Fat admiring men? In fact, all I see is guys not intrestedin me and the guys I knew repulsed at how much I gained. Im sad as hell. I have a pretty face . I dont get the damn your hot and men buying me drinks anymore. Whats up with that. Please dont say its because I have a man, we used to go out when I was thin and men still would talk to me. So I think this liking fat women is BS. I live in the Philadelphia area and guys here do NOT like heavy women. Is this all an internet fantasy?


I'm surprised to hear that about Philadelphia. I made 2 or 3 business trips there last year and found no lack of positive male attention without even looking for it, in my hotels, in restaurants etc. And I'm over 50! I don't hang out in bars much, but sometimes I had a after-dinner drinks in the hotel bar and sometimes men began chatting with me there. One of our clients also turned out to be a major FA, and he and his wife took me to some fabulous restaurants in the tri-state area of Pennsylvania, Delaware and New Jersey. :eat2:

I've always been fat, so I have no idea how much male attention I might garner as a thin woman. Nonetheless, as a fat woman I've never lacked for male attention. I didn't have parades of followers like the hot babes in high school and college, but I did have some major trump cards: a friendly personality and a great gleaming smile. It seemed that many (but by no means all) of those hot babes had bitchy personalities, if they had personalities at all. They got by on their looks simply because they were hot and that's all many men cared about. It's given me no small satisfaction to see many of those formerly hot babes have not aged well, and have nothing else to offer, so now they're bitter. 

It's been said that people judge others by how they judge themselves. If you're not happy as a formerly thin woman who gained a lot of weight and is now fat, maybe people recognize that you're not happy, which in itself puts a major damper on things. You can't stop the bonehead comments ("Wow, you sure gained a lot of weight!" :doh: ) but you can manage how you respond to them ("In all the right places! It's called living well."  ). As a fat women all my life, I've had to develop an attractive personality to get male attention. Fortunately, that was not difficult. 

As I said I don't go to bars much, but my most memorable bar experience was 4 or 5 years ago when my husband & I were on vacation at a resort in Acapulco. One day I ticked off a bevy of skinny little bambis half my age because I inadvertently stole their limelight. I was laughing and just being my usual friendly wise ass on the beach and in the pools at our resort that some men were buying me drinks at the swim-up bar and ignoring the bambis. Those bambis were none too pleased that a big tall middle-aged obese woman in a swimsuit got the attention they believed should have been theirs. Finally one of the bambis groused that it must be whale season down here. So I replied, "I see you're practising birth control -- with your personalities."


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## jimj (Sep 1, 2009)

My wife is 5'-3" and 300+lbs. She gets checked out quite a bit. I think part of the reason is that she loves being a bbw and it shows. It's a turn on seeing a woman act sexy because she feels sexy. On the other hand when a woman is down on herself even a pretty one it's kind of a turn off. Maybe guys sense that and that's why they aren't coming on to you. I'll bet you look great but you need to start believing it. It's more than just looks that make a person attractive.


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 1, 2009)

TallFatSue said:


> As I said I don't go to bars much, but my most memorable bar experience was 4 or 5 years ago when my husband & I were on vacation at a resort in Acapulco. One day I ticked off a bevy of skinny little bambis half my age because I inadvertently stole their limelight. I was laughing and just being my usual friendly wise ass on the beach and in the pools at our resort that some men were buying me drinks at the swim-up bar and ignoring the bambis. Those bambis were none too pleased that a big tall middle-aged obese woman in a swimsuit got the attention they believed should have been theirs. Finally one of the bambis groused that it must be whale season down here. So I replied, "I see you're practising birth control -- with your personalities."



You've told this story many times before, only it was singular (bambi) and not plural (bambis) the last time around.

I didn't like it the first read-through, and I don't like it now. Your opinion of the "bambis" in question is just as negative and hateful as their (assumed) opinion of you.

OP: What other people think of you shouldn't matter to you, and in time, it probably won't. Like you, I was a thin young woman & into early adulthood and male attention was something that I was just accustomed to. I actually missed it when it was gone, for many of the same reasons that you've expressed. Now, I'm a woman of a certain age and my size isn't of much consequence anyway. The only thing that has changed is me. I no longer hand other people the power to affect my self esteem, either positively *or* negatively. I wish I would have learned that when I was much younger. I hope that you do.


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## TallFatSue (Sep 1, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> You've told this story many times before, only it was singular (bambi) and not plural (bambis) the last time around.
> 
> I didn't like it the first read-through, and I don't like it now. Your opinion of the "bambis" in question is just as negative and hateful as their (assumed) opinion of you.



Wha...???


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## olwen (Sep 1, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Yet when I was thin, I had lots of male attention. I am engaged but I never get any looks anymore. I had one guy try and pick me up at a make up counter and thats it .Where are all these Fat admiring men? In fact, all I see is guys not intrestedin me and the guys I knew repulsed at how much I gained. Im sad as hell. I have a pretty face . I dont get the damn your hot and men buying me drinks anymore. Whats up with that. Please dont say its because I have a man, we used to go out when I was thin and men still would talk to me. So I think this liking fat women is BS. I live in the Philadelphia area and guys here do NOT like heavy women. Is this all an internet fantasy?



..........


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## olwen (Sep 1, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Im engaged , Im not dead!!! LOL. Yes I still like to receive positive attention. I have had it all my life, now I dont have it. My fiance has nothing to do with this. Im not saying I am going to cheat on him. Geez. I like to look good and be admired for beauty from men and women. I do think that is human nature to be somwhat vain. I'm saying gaining weight has worked extreemly against me and then I come on here and its another world. I do love the attention from my fiance, but I do go out in the world and interact with other people and hear OMG, you were so hot and now you gained weight. Did you have babies? Its too much already and yes my old guy friends say this to me. Telling me I have let myself go and where is that hot body etc. I hear it from females every day too. My post was started because I get so much anti fat comments EVERY single day and then I search the internet and its all this worshipig of larger women and I wonder if it was all real. Thanks Rollhandler for being very nice in your post. I wonder if gome guys are closeted fat lovers. Its hard though, even my male cosuin wont date a female over 135 pounds. I dont even feel like leaving my house anymore . I know you all probally dont know how this feels. It is heartbreaking to me to have these comments and stares everyday and also the feeling of being invisible in regards to beauty. I guess no one gets me.



Sooooo, lemmie get this straight. You didn't think that gaining weight would make people in general be less attracted to you? 

Oh waiter, check please.


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## fatgirlflyin (Sep 1, 2009)

olwen said:


> Sooooo, lemmie get this straight. You didn't think that gaining weight would make people in general be less attracted to you?
> 
> Oh waiter, check please.



If you check "her" post history, you'll see what she really thinks about fat people anyway. No sympathy from me.


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## Tau (Sep 1, 2009)

fatgirlflyin said:


> If you check "her" post history, you'll see what she really thinks about fat people anyway. No sympathy from me.



The plot thickens


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## Splatacaster (Sep 1, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Yet when I was thin, I had lots of male attention. I am engaged but I never get any looks anymore. I had one guy try and pick me up at a make up counter and thats it .Where are all these Fat admiring men? In fact, all I see is guys not intrestedin me and the guys I knew repulsed at how much I gained. Im sad as hell. I have a pretty face . I dont get the damn your hot and men buying me drinks anymore. Whats up with that. Please dont say its because I have a man, we used to go out when I was thin and men still would talk to me. So I think this liking fat women is BS. I live in the Philadelphia area and guys here do NOT like heavy women. Is this all an internet fantasy?



Sounds like there may be a confidence issue at play here.


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## TallFatSue (Sep 1, 2009)

fatgirlflyin said:


> If you check "her" post history, you'll see what she really thinks about fat people anyway. No sympathy from me.


Oh, I see what you mean. In one post she complains that in one year she gained...


Lolita13 said:


> About 100 pounds and no I didnt want to at all. I would give an arm to have it off of me.


In another post she said...


Lolita13 said:


> I make enemies every where I go, whats one more place. jk.


She is not a happy person, she seems to wallow in it and have a chip on her shoulder. Yet she wonders why no one finds her attractive. A "supermodel" with this attitude would be unattractive. 

Many people do have genuine issues of confidence or bad personal situations. That's something altogether different. This forum tries to make them feel better, or at least tries to show the potential of a positive attitude. 

However some people simply WILL NOT be helped, and they project their own problems onto others rather than deal with them themselves. They think it's everyone else's problem but their own, and some of them ferret out flaws in targets of convenience. Could that be the situation here? I don't know. It is a puzzlement. Maybe it's time to move on. If she truly wants help, we'll be here.

PS.
Q: How many whiners does it take to change a light bulb?
A: One. But the light bulb must WANT to change.


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## Oirish (Sep 1, 2009)

The plot thickens indeed. There have been plenty of great points made so far. Attraction to BBWs is not the norm and FAs often have trouble being open about their preferences due to ridicule from their friends and from negative reactions by BBWs (like Jay said). The girl in question should obviously recognize that gaining 100 pounds would decrease the number of people sauntering over to hit on her at a bar due to FAs being a minority but WE ARE OUT THERE. But like anyone else, we tend to be attracted to individuals with confidence that seem fun...and are single. A ring on a finger is a good sign to move along. If she's recently engaged that could be a factor. I don't want to assume insecurity or any other foible about someone I don't know. Another reality is that just because FAs are attracted to the larger form doesn't mean we aren't picky too. Not all girls carry the weight well and that is the god's honest truth. It takes style, poise, and curves in the RIGHT places to be a truly sexy BBW. Never seeing the girl, I have no opinion in that regard.


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## KHayes666 (Sep 1, 2009)

Oirish said:


> The plot thickens indeed. There have been plenty of great points made so far. Attraction to BBWs is not the norm and FAs often have trouble being open about their preferences due to ridicule from their friends and from negative reactions by BBWs (like Jay said). The girl in question should obviously recognize that gaining 100 pounds would decrease the number of people sauntering over to hit on her at a bar due to FAs being a minority but WE ARE OUT THERE. But like anyone else, we tend to be attracted to individuals with confidence that seem fun...and are single. A ring on a finger is a good sign to move along. If she's recently engaged that could be a factor. I don't want to assume insecurity or any other foible about someone I don't know. Another reality is that just because FAs are attracted to the larger form doesn't mean we aren't picky too. Not all girls carry the weight well and that is the god's honest truth. It takes style, poise, and curves in the RIGHT places to be a truly sexy BBW. Never seeing the girl, I have no opinion in that regard.



She sounds like a former thin girl who's used to being hot and attractive which explains her "I make enemies where I go" attitude. For one reason or another she got fat and in her thin oriented world people aren't turning their heads anymore.

Maybe its karma


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## Keb (Sep 1, 2009)

The feeling of being invisible, I can relate to. Or standing out in such a way that people stare at you...and not because they think you're hot. 

I don't get told I'm hot more than once in a blue moon, and it's been that way since I can remember. 

And I can't imagine whining that I wasn't getting that attention when I had a perfectly good fiance at my side to make up for it. But what do I know--I've never had that sort of positive attention based on my appearance. Maybe I would miss it. I think it's hard enough finding someone who likes you and works well with you as is; why demand everyone else treat you with the same adoration?


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## Weeze (Sep 1, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> So I think this liking fat women is BS. I live in the Philadelphia area and guys here do NOT like heavy women. Is this all an internet fantasy?



What the hell philly do you live in? My ass jiggle gets stared at at the gas station. If no one around here liked chunky chicks, no one would get laid.
No. It's not all an internet fantasy. I don't get fat when I sign online? Tons of girls on here get the attention you apparently want in real life. There are plenty of non-Fa's i've talked to who don't mind weight as much and will actually tell you "A hot girl is a hot girl" and make no mention of fat or thin. So, just be confident, and take care of yourself and your appearance, and you'll start turning heads..


Or you can just walk around with your cleavage falling out all the time.


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## TallFatSue (Sep 2, 2009)

krismiss said:


> Lolita13 said:
> 
> 
> > So I think this liking fat women is BS. I live in the Philadelphia area and guys here do NOT like heavy women. Is this all an internet fantasy?
> ...


Works for me! That sounds much more like the Philadelphia I remember from my business trips last year. Didn't think I was dreaming! There were at least some men who liked us fat women just fine. 


krismiss said:


> Or you can just walk around with your cleavage falling out all the time.


A smile and a positive attitude work wonders too.


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## bigsexy920 (Sep 2, 2009)

Um I havent recently gained weight but I sort of agree with her in the no male attention. I rarely drawn attention in a group of FA's which leads me to believe that most FA's dont find me attractive for some reason. As for men outside the community there is really NO positive male attention at all.


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## frankman (Sep 2, 2009)

At OP:
It's all a giant hoax.

I agree wholehartedly with "a hot girl is a hot girl". Just being a certain size doesn't automatically guarantee male attention.


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## Tau (Sep 2, 2009)

Maybe its just me but as I said in my earlier post getting hit on in public kinda fills me with apprehension. I love a friendly compliment here or there or catching guys grinning at you with dazed lust - thats fun . What I don't enjoy is the vast majority of men who come at me with an attitude like they're expecting me to fall to my knees and suck their dicks just cos they hit on me. Perhaps its just here but a lot of the guys who approach me are almost aggressive and the conversations turn very ugly even when I politely say, no thanks. The general reaction is a comment like: 'You think you're so hot but all you are is fat and disgusting! I was doing you a favour coming to talk to you because I felt sorry for you.' 

Now I'm sure none of the men who've posted in this thread have ever acted in that way or said that, but because it's happened so often I'm very wary about being hit on while I'm out taking a walk or shopping or whatever. And it would be so much better if they were just polite about it. Today a guy came up to me, said hello, said he loved my braids and then asked for my number. I didn't give it to him because he was way too old, but I also didn't want to claw his eyes out, and I very politely invented a fictional boyfriend as I said no. 

So to the FAs out there who've been burned when they asked a big girl out in public: just remember you likely aren't the first and dude who's gone before was probably a total jerk, so don't take the reaction too personally


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## TallFatSue (Sep 2, 2009)

Lolita13 might be a hoax, but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt. At the very least, she seems like she doesn't WANT to be helped. Some people are like that. 

Yes indeedy, when you get right down to it, attraction really is in the mind. I've encountered more than a few women who couldn't understand why they couldn't get any attention. Come to think of it, I couldn't understand it either, because they seemed like they had a lot to offer. (Although sometimes it's obvious, like those above-mentioned skinny little bambis (plural) in Acapulco whose ringleader (singular) loudly compared me to a whale and thereby fully deserved the condescension they received.) A smile, a positive attitude and a little _joie de vivre_ go a long way. But there's also a certain _je ne sais quoi_ that goes into it. I've seen many many people of all shapes and sizes in this forum and in real life who are doing just fine. I've also seen people in one bad relationship after another, or no relationship at all, when they strike me as great catches for some lucky guy or gal. It is a puzzlement. All I know is what works for me, and it seems to work for many other people, so methinx I'll just keep it up.


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## Tracii (Sep 2, 2009)

I do get the OMG comments from people I havn't seen in a few years guys mostly, the ladies don't say much but I know they are thinking it.
I don't let it get to me I'm happy in my skin.


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## nykspree8 (Sep 2, 2009)

KHayes666 said:


> If I was engaged, I wouldn't give a damn who else was looking at me as long as my fiancee was enjoying what she sees.
> 
> Maybe instead of pouting over why you don't turn any heads on the street, you should be thankful for the one head that turns when you wake up next to him.



I agree completely. Who cares if other men find you attractive or not? At home, is the man who's opinion of your body is the only one you should truly care about. I mean, are you expecting guys to go up and hit on you? Liek someone else said, they probably see your man repellent (engagement ring) and stay away, I know I would *shrug*.


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## lovesgaininggirls (Sep 2, 2009)

nykspree8 said:


> I agree completely. Who cares if other men find you attractive or not? At home, is the man who's opinion of your body is the only one you should truly care about. I mean, are you expecting guys to go up and hit on you? Liek someone else said, they probably see your man repellent (engagement ring) and stay away, I know I would *shrug*.


I do believe you're suffering from the social taboo which probably makes most FAs, closet FAs, and that is that, according to our present social mores, a guy is not SUPPOSED to admire, dare I say it, fat girls!

If you're a guy and you are with your "buddies", you're expected to ogle the Cindy Crawfords (I know I'm aging myself here, lol) or Paris Hiltons of the world. So if you see a 250 pound Cindy, just as beautiful but more full-bodied, even though you may be totally interested, you have to ignore her because your "buddies" will think you're some kind of fat fetishist! And if you're with female companions, you have to be careful when admiring a BBW or SSBBW because then they might get the impression that that's what you'd like THEM to look like, even though that's undoubtedly true.

Is it unreasoning fear? Absolutely! Stupid? Undoubtedly! Absolutely prevalent? Well, I think you've answered your own question there!


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## nykspree8 (Sep 2, 2009)

lovesgaininggirls said:


> I do believe you're suffering from the social taboo which probably makes most FAs, closet FAs, and that is that, according to our present social mores, a guy is not SUPPOSED to admire, dare I say it, fat girls!
> 
> If you're a guy and you are with your "buddies", you're expected to ogle the Cindy Crawfords (I know I'm aging myself here, lol) or Paris Hiltons of the world. So if you see a 250 pound Cindy, just as beautiful but more full-bodied, even though you may be totally interested, you have to ignore her because your "buddies" will think you're some kind of fat fetishist! And if you're with female companions, you have to be careful when admiring a BBW or SSBBW because then they might get the impression that that's what you'd like THEM to look like, even though that's undoubtedly true.
> 
> Is it unreasoning fear? Absolutely! Stupid? Undoubtedly! Absolutely prevalent? Well, I think you've answered your own question there!



Huh? All my buddies, family, co-workers, people in my apartment building, and even the bum living in a cardboard box on the street corner, know I'm a FA and proud of it. Check your sources.

edit: lul, I don't even understand how what you said, has any relevancy to what was quoted *boggle*. I'm lost, maybe you are too, and meant to post that somewhere else *guides you to the correct thread, wherever that may be*.


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## joswitch (Sep 2, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Yet when I was thin, I had lots of male attention. I am engaged but I never get any looks anymore. I had one guy try and pick me up at a make up counter and thats it .Where are all these Fat admiring men? In fact, all I see is guys not intrestedin me and the guys I knew repulsed at how much I gained. Im sad as hell. I have a pretty face . I dont get the damn your hot and men buying me drinks anymore. Whats up with that. Please dont say its because I have a man, we used to go out when I was thin and men still would talk to me. So I think this liking fat women is BS. I live in the Philadelphia area and guys here do NOT like heavy women. Is this all an internet fantasy?



errr.... 
1) engagement ring = men go away.
So if other male attention is *this* important to you, maybe you might want to rethink that whole engagement thing... ???
If not, maybe rethink your attitude to other male attention...



> I do love the attention from my fiance, but I do go out in the world and interact with other people and hear OMG, you were so hot and now you gained weight. Did you have babies? Its too much already and yes my old guy friends say this to me. Telling me I have let myself go and where is that hot body etc. I hear it from females every day too.



2) Sounds like your "friends" suck... Maybe you need some new friends? Or at the very least a "Hey this is me - shut up and deal with it." attitude....

Good luck.


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## lovesgaininggirls (Sep 2, 2009)

Good for you, but I doubt that this kind of acceptance is universal!


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## Brenda (Sep 2, 2009)

""Yet when I was thin, I had lots of male attention. I am engaged but I never get any looks anymore. I had one guy try and pick me up at a make up counter and thats it .Where are all these Fat admiring men? In fact, all I see is guys not intrestedin me and the guys I knew repulsed at how much I gained. Im sad as hell. I have a pretty face . I dont get the damn your hot and men buying me drinks anymore. Whats up with that. Please dont say its because I have a man, we used to go out when I was thin and men still would talk to me. So I think this liking fat women is BS. I live in the Philadelphia area and guys here do NOT like heavy women. Is this all an internet fantasy?""

It is not an internet fantasy all together but it is not nearly as common as men who like thin chicks. Being fat you can certainly find dates, a partner, sex or whatever but is unlikely you will be getting the amount of attention from men an equally attractive thin woman would get on the street.


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## Donna (Sep 2, 2009)

TallFatSue said:


> *snipped for brevity*
> As I said I don't go to bars much, but my most memorable bar experience was 4 or 5 years ago when my husband & I were on vacation at a resort in Acapulco. One day I ticked off a bevy of skinny little bambis half my age because I inadvertently stole their limelight. I was laughing and just being my usual friendly wise ass on the beach and in the pools at our resort that some men were buying me drinks at the swim-up bar and ignoring the bambis. Those bambis were none too pleased that a big tall middle-aged obese woman in a swimsuit got the attention they believed should have been theirs. Finally one of the bambis groused that it must be whale season down here. So I replied, "I see you're practising birth control -- with your personalities."





TraciJo67 said:


> You've told this story many times before, only it was singular (bambi) and not plural (bambis) the last time around.
> 
> I didn't like it the first read-through, and I don't like it now. Your opinion of the "bambis" in question is just as negative and hateful as their (assumed) opinion of you.
> 
> *snipped again for brevity*





TallFatSue said:


> Wha...???



You are confused? Methinks (that is the correct spelling of that archaic phrase, for the record) you are playing coy. Please do not insult our collective intelligence. 

You have indeed told the Acapulco story before, and other stories of the same theme, painting a picture of the plucky fat girl who wins everyone over with her wit and charm. As Traci said, your opinion of the bambis is "just as negative and hateful as their (assumed) opinion of you." And I would add dismissive and counterproductive to acceptance. 

Why is referring to thin women as bambis any better than when someone refers to a fat person as a whale? In my humble opinion, it is not. For someone who professes to be so positive and plucky, your negative opinion of others manifests itself quite plainly. You remind me of the FA who come here and downgrade thin women in an attempt to sing the praises of BBW. You have been around long enough in your fifty some odd years to have learned that it is bad form to lift yourself up by putting others down, haven't you?

As for the OP, I highly doubt she was looking for real opinions so I don't feel too guilty about possibly derailing her thread.


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## TallFatSue (Sep 2, 2009)

Methinx they doth protest too much. 

Sure I have. Sorry if I seem insensitive. But sometimes ya gotta give as good as you get. Luckily it doesn't happen often to me. Hence this oft-told tale. Actually I haven't told it since sometime last year, so I thought it was okay. Yeesh!

Oh well, I guess you had to be there.


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## TallFatSue (Sep 3, 2009)

Methinx I know the real problem. This is the only life I've got, eventful though it has been, so in my decade of involvement in Dimensions I'm bound to repeat myself. Surely in the past year I've repeated other real-life stories far more often than this. Why was this singled out? Then is dawned on me. Aha! Acapulco! It took place at a posh resort in Acapulco. I apologize if my attempts to demonstrate that a positive attitude can indeed work wonders have backfired and instead garnered resentment. :bow:

Oh well, this is as good a time as any for me to bow out for a while and let things cool down. Labor Day is coming up, I'm working only until noon today, and tonight my husband & I will take off for a long weekend. Literally. We found a great air fare, a friend of ours is now in Berlin on a business trip, and his wife invited us to fly with her to Germany to meet him there tomorrow morning. I hadn't planned to mention this at all -- until now, when I thought why not? But I'd best keep the rest of the details to myself. 

"Methinx" also that some people "prolly" dislike my fun with the English language, so.... 

Wegen meiner Großmutter lernte ich ein bißchen Deutsch als Mädchen. Dieses Wochenende wird es mich freuen, diese Sprache wieder zu üben, klassische Musik hören, deutsche Küche und Bäckerei genießen, und vor allem einkaufen gehen! Ich glaube auch, daß Deutschland mehr als ein paar "Fettbewunderer" hat. :smitten:


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## joswitch (Sep 3, 2009)

Wow.. Donna and TraciJo - let's get this straight - you're having a go at TFS for her giving-as-good-she-got to some woman who specifically called her a "whale" (in a clearly meant to be offensive manner).. So the two of you are saying that fat people should be saints who never bite back on the haters - for fear of "discrediting" the fat/size acceptance "movement"?! Do you not think that fat folks have just as much right to be "uppity" and fight back as thin folks?? Oh and whilst "bambi" is technically of the same genre of body-insult as "whale" it hardly has the same history of weight and hate behind it, eh? And ragging on TFS for repeating herself? DIMS is FULL of repetition!! ...I notice that TFS is singled out and *always* gets it in the neck - (not that she needs me to defend her) - but WTF???


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## Shosh (Sep 3, 2009)

I actually thought that aside from recounting the Acapulco story, Sue had many postive and affirming things to say to the OP.

I think that Sue often makes thoughtful and intelligent contributions to threads here, and that others have been too hard on her.
Just my two.


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## Donna (Sep 3, 2009)

Ihre Deutsch übersetzt tatsächlich, als ob Sie ein Programm Übersetzung ähnlich wie der verwendet verwende diese Message type. Was Sie tun an diesem Wochenende, die Tatsache, dass die eingegebenen Teil Ihrer Nachricht in einer Fremdsprache, oder die recycelten Geschichten nicht der Punkt der meine Post sind. Jetzt meines Erachtens muss zu Englisch wechseln.

The "real problem" as you say...or rather, the point I was trying to make was that your repeated use of the term "bambis" when referring to thin/conventionally attractive women is the same as when those same "bambis" called you a whale. Both are dismissive, and each serves to show the real attitude of the person using the phrase. Bambi is akin to calling someone a bimbo and carries with it a very sexist tone in my opinion. 

My point wasn't that the story has been told multiple times. You feigned confusion when responding to Traci's post, so I merely pointed out an example of when the story had been told before. Also, my post had nothing to do with the story itself or its setting. SO you have been to Acapulco? I have been to Cancun (Freedom Paradise to be exact, as a result of winning a beauty contest for big women.) But you see, that tidbit of information is not relevant to the point.

I am not sure how I can make it any plainer.


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## Tau (Sep 3, 2009)

@Susannah and Joswitch - thank you! I was also like WTF??


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## MsGreenLantern (Sep 3, 2009)

As a fat woman in the Philadelphia area, I can promise you there ARE men who like fat Chicks. I found my long-term boyfriend when I weighed around 270. We're quite happy, and I even gained a few pounds since then. It sounds to me like your attitude about it is a big turn off. All the fat flirts I know get attention by being outgoing, dressing well, and just KNOWING they're worth every ounce of attention and pampering.


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 3, 2009)

TallFatSue said:


> Methinx I know the real problem. This is the only life I've got, eventful though it has been, so in my decade of involvement in Dimensions I'm bound to repeat myself. Surely in the past year I've repeated other real-life stories far more often than this. Why was this singled out? Then is dawned on me. Aha! Acapulco! It took place at a posh resort in Acapulco. I apologize if my attempts to demonstrate that a positive attitude can indeed work wonders have backfired and instead garnered resentment. :bow:
> 
> Oh well, this is as good a time as any for me to bow out for a while and let things cool down. Labor Day is coming up, I'm working only until noon today, and tonight my husband & I will take off for a long weekend. Literally. We found a great air fare, a friend of ours is now in Berlin on a business trip, and his wife invited us to fly with her to Germany to meet him there tomorrow morning. I hadn't planned to mention this at all -- until now, when I thought why not? But I'd best keep the rest of the details to myself.
> 
> ...



Yes, TFS ... I'm enormously overwhelmed by your wealth and your extensive travel experiences 

Actually, dear, methinx we belong to the same social class. That is to say, we work for a living, at the whim and the discretion of our respective employers. However, if you'd like to compare credentials, hubby and I both hold master's degrees and professional-level jobs. Hubby, in fact, has an engineering background and currently manages an Artful group of engineers. We are also extensively well-traveled, although my travel experiences have both troubled and humbled me, since I've had the opportunity (a mixed blessing) to see *real* poverty and *real* need up close 'n personal. I've come away from that believing that we are all, those of us with homes and warm beds and steady, reliably nutritious meals, enormously wealthy and outlandishly entitled about it. I don't aspire to be anything but what I am, and I feel blessed by that: A working woman with a steady income and the current ability to feed and provide for myself and for my family. Those of us who aren't legitimately wealthy (i.e., not the owners of the businesses that we work for - which is to say, you and I) are but a few missed paychecks away from a reality check. I don't begrudge you the fabulous vacations and your Opulent Adventures, Sue. But I would suggest that you take some time to see how the other 90% live, in other areas of the world (hint: the posh resorts do go to the trouble of keeping the riff-raff out so as not to upset the delicate, well-fed sensibilities of the entitled). It may humble you. 

No, Sue. What I objected to is *exactly* what I said I objected to, which is your usage of the hateful term 'bambi's' and all that it implies (and Donna did a far better job of explaining that than I could). I get that they weren't kind to you. That makes their behavior crass and rude; it doesn't make them doe-eyed bimbos. 

If there is anything that I actually *do* envy about you, Sue, believe me, it's not your middle-class lifestyle and obvious aspirations to the upper strata. It is, in fact, that you have an innate ability to see only the positive -- from your own unique perspective, that is. That is a trait that genuinely is enviable.


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## Mies (Sep 3, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Yes, TFS ... I'm enormously overwhelmed by your wealth and your extensive travel experiences
> 
> Actually, dear, methinx we belong to the same social class. That is to say, we work for a living, at the whim and the discretion of our respective employers. However, if you'd like to compare credentials, hubby and I both hold master's degrees and professional-level jobs. Hubby, in fact, has an engineering background and currently manages an Artful group of engineers. We are also extensively well-traveled, although my travel experiences have both troubled and humbled me, since I've had the opportunity (a mixed blessing) to see *real* poverty and *real* need up close 'n personal. I've come away from that believing that we are all, those of us with homes and warm beds and steady, reliably nutritious meals, enormously wealthy and outlandishly entitled about it. I don't aspire to be anything but what I am, and I feel blessed by that: A working woman with a steady income and the current ability to feed and provide for myself and for my family. Those of us who aren't legitimately wealthy (i.e., not the owners of the businesses that we work for - which is to say, you and I) are but a few missed paychecks away from a reality check. I don't begrudge you the fabulous vacations and your Opulent Adventures, Sue. But I would suggest that you take some time to see how the other 90% live, in other areas of the world (hint: the posh resorts do go to the trouble of keeping the riff-raff out so as not to upset the delicate, well-fed sensibilities of the entitled). It may humble you.
> 
> ...




Nice post, mostly.


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## Tychondarova (Sep 3, 2009)

Splatacaster said:


> Sounds like there may be a confidence issue at play here.



Bingo!

Let me reiterate it again, for the OP, in case she misses it.

BINGO!

Its all the confidence in how you carry yourself. Do you walk differently now? Do you smile as much? Do you hold yourself with the same esteem as you did when you were thin? Frankly, I know a lot of fat girls, and the only difference I see in who gets asked out and who doesn't is their impression of themselves. The confident ones are proud of who they are, they don't dress to hide their curves, they aren't afraid to be flirty and feminine. The girls who don't get asked out are the ones who walk with their heads down or carry themselves like they are something shameful. My point being, its all up to you really. People are attracted to confidence more than anything else.

And also, I know its been pointed out before, but guys being cowardly is also to blame really. All my life I have received criticism and ridicule for being a guy who openly loves fat women, has only ever dated fat women, etc. You would actually be surprised how many guys are actually attracted to full figured, curvaceous girls but are too afraid of the social ramifications to act of their impulses. Hell, some times I can see why. Still, doesn't stop me from winking at the voluptuous vixens (as if anything could). 

-Ty


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## pjbbwlvr (Sep 3, 2009)

Lolita, I am sorry to hear of your dismay. I live in Central Jersey, New Brunswick Area which is not that far from Philadelphia. All I can see is that 
you never walked past my location as your only complaint would be that guy 
is staring at me, LoL! 
I cannot believe you don't see men checking you out. Almost all of my Philly buddies love larger women as much as I do! But always know you are as beautiful as you feel and I am sure you most definitely are beautiful!!
Take care, Paul 




Lolita13 said:


> Yet when I was thin, I had lots of male attention. I am engaged but I never get any looks anymore. I had one guy try and pick me up at a make up counter and thats it .Where are all these Fat admiring men? In fact, all I see is guys not intrestedin me and the guys I knew repulsed at how much I gained. Im sad as hell. I have a pretty face . I dont get the damn your hot and men buying me drinks anymore. Whats up with that. Please dont say its because I have a man, we used to go out when I was thin and men still would talk to me. So I think this liking fat women is BS. I live in the Philadelphia area and guys here do NOT like heavy women. Is this all an internet fantasy?


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## TallFatSue (Sep 3, 2009)

Tracy, I don't want anyone to envy me. I'm simply tired of people kicking me in the ass for being too positive, too uppity or whatever. Maybe I am too positive and too annoyingly cheerful, but I'd rather err in that direction than be too negative.

And I don't forget what the other 90% is like. That's essentially what my grandparents left behind after World War I, when people were literally starving in Europe. They sacrificed to make better lives for their children, and my parents sacrificed so my brother and I would have better lives too. If we are where we are now, it's because we stand on their shoulders. We feel we owe it to them and their hard work to continue to improve ourselves. There is nothing wrong with being middle class. There is also nothing wrong with higher aspirations either, provided we do it ethically.

Remember that phrase, "Yes we can"? It begins with each and every one of us.

And Donna, good luck using your translation program in real time, in a face-to-face conversation. I'm far from perfect in German or French, but it sure helps us snag good tables in restaurants. 

And now my weekend begins in 5, 4, 3, 2...


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## katorade (Sep 3, 2009)

I'm going to start mailing anthrax if I see a certain word uttered again.


It's one thing to be a happy, cheerful person. It's another thing entirely to simultaneously shove how great your life is in others' faces while saying you don't "get" what everyone's bitching about, or why everyone else has it so bad, because apparently your entire life is sunshine and roses. 

Being able to regale people with stories of your perfect fat life isn't helping people cope with difficulties they have in their own lives. It's actually kind of rude. Nobody is kicking you in the ass for being positive, it's the perceived lack of empathy that comes across in your posts, whether you realize it or not. JMO.


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## Mies (Sep 3, 2009)

katorade said:


> I'm going to start mailing anthrax if I see a certain word uttered again.



I'm with you there!


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## FaxMachine1234 (Sep 3, 2009)

Oh for crying out loud, people are allowed to inadvertently mention they have nice things without everyone jumping on their back about it. Are the people with houses supposed to hide that information so they don't piss off people who can only afford apartments? If this site is ultimately about accepting, then that doesn't mean carping on another poster's ability to go on vacations.

As for the OP, I'm sorry but I think the percentage of FAs to people who prefer more slender men or women isn't very favorable when you're just picking people out of the crowd in metropolitan areas. But if you're engaged, then you should be pretty happy about that!


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## KHayes666 (Sep 3, 2009)

FaxMachine1234 said:


> Oh for crying out loud, people are allowed to inadvertently mention they have nice things without everyone jumping on their back about it. Are the people with houses supposed to hide that information so they don't piss off people who can only afford apartments? If this site is ultimately about accepting, then that doesn't mean carping on another poster's ability to go on vacations.
> 
> As for the OP, I'm sorry but I think the percentage of FAs to people who prefer more slender men or women isn't very favorable when you're just picking people out of the crowd in metropolitan areas. But if you're engaged, then you should be pretty happy about that!



I agree with the first statement, however there's a difference in mentioning that things are good and saying "i just moved in a 3 acre mansion with my perfect husband and wonderful children, oh wow i am so happy and did i mention our porche can hold all 4 of us on our vacation to Disneyworld?"

As for the OP, don't bother. I doubt that person is coming back


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## FaxMachine1234 (Sep 3, 2009)

KHayes666 said:


> I agree with the first statement, however there's a difference in mentioning that things are good and saying "i just moved in a 3 acre mansion with my perfect husband and wonderful children, oh wow i am so happy and did i mention our porche can hold all 4 of us on our vacation to Disneyworld?"



Yeah, that's the same thing as mentioning that you were in Acapulco once.


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## KHayes666 (Sep 3, 2009)

FaxMachine1234 said:


> Yeah, that's the same thing as mentioning that you were in Acapulco once.



Aww come on, that was one time and you promised me you'd never drink Tequila and sing Steely Dan again!

Grrr


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## Lolita13 (Sep 3, 2009)

wow, sorry I posted and people misread me.And to assume thing about me that you dont know. Who ever said the prome queen this was very rude and cruel. If you really liked biger women would you say my gaining weight was bad karma? Anyway, no I am not happy I gained the weight. There I said it. Does everyone hate me now? Should I lie and say , that Im happy in this skin I am in. Any of you other fuler figured women, if given the chance to be thinner, would you? I feel attacked, really? I posted because I am depressed about this. I cant get help anywhere. I dont want to leave my house and see anyone. My heart hurt s everyday and I cry. sorry if it seems " shallow" to you, but I hate myself this way. I am treated very badly by this. You just dont know. I came here for maybe some acceptance and because I havent been 100 percent pro fat, Im blasted. Great. I cant even make jokes in other threads and have people read them wrongly. You people here are no better that the people that treat me like a lower human for gaining weight.


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## FaxMachine1234 (Sep 3, 2009)

KHayes666 said:


> Aww come on, that was one time and you promised me you'd never drink Tequila and sing Steely Dan again!
> 
> Grrr




Hey, Steely Dan's forever, man! FOREVER!


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## KHayes666 (Sep 3, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> wow, sorry I posted and people misread me.And to assume thing about me that you dont know. Who ever said the prome queen this was very rude and cruel. If you really liked biger women would you say my gaining weight was bad karma? Anyway, no I am not happy I gained the weight. There I said it. Does everyone hate me now? Should I lie and say , that Im happy in this skin I am in. Any of you other fuler figured women, if given the chance to be thinner, would you? I feel attacked, really? I posted because I am depressed about this. I cant get help anywhere. I dont want to leave my house and see anyone. My heart hurt s everyday and I cry. sorry if it seems " shallow" to you, but I hate myself this way. I am treated very badly by this. You just dont know. I came here for maybe some acceptance and because I havent been 100 percent pro fat, Im blasted. Great. I cant even make jokes in other threads and have people read them wrongly. You people here are no better that the people that treat me like a lower human for gaining weight.



That's exactly why no one has sympathy for you. In your posts you have denounced being fat, anyone who's into feederism and have said how bad being fat is.

What it seemed like to us was that you are not going to accept anyone else for their beliefs and their wants, but you want everyone to accept you. That sounds pretty selfish and undeserving of acceptance.

A lot of people may or may not want to be thinner, but the point is a lot of them can and already are HAPPY the size they are. You only see the negative aspects of things because it sounds like your life is full of negatives, meanwhile for someone else they could be as happy as can be.

What you did was you walked into an acceptance forum and made it sound like you weren't going to accept people who either wanted to be fat, or were happy at the size they are. If you're not going accept men and women for wanting to be fat, men and women who like the men and women for being fat and in general people that are happy....why should we accept you?


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## Lolita13 (Sep 3, 2009)

Also. yes I have a very caring man in my life. But I cannot get my self esteem from him alone. Wanting possitive attention from humans is very natural for me. I am a very social person and having EVEYONE around me reacting so negative to my weight has brought me down. Please try and open your minds to another aspect to all of this.


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## StarWitness (Sep 3, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Also. yes I have a very caring man in my life. But I cannot get my self esteem from him alone. Wanting possitive attention from humans is very natural for me. I am a very social person and having EVEYONE around me reacting so negative to my weight has brought me down. Please try and open your minds to another aspect to all of this.



Look, I'm the same way. I've never been the Pretty Girl (tm), but I crave other people's approval. And in the long term, it's been very damaging. I've come to the realization that I can't live my life this way, and I'm trying very hard to change.

You can't rely on other people. Other people's opinions change. Other people go away. *You* are the only constant in your life. If you want long-term peace of mind on any level, it has to come from an internal source.


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## Rowan (Sep 3, 2009)

If you dont like something...CHANGE IT.

If you dont like being fat...either accept it or lose weight.

If you dont like not getting attention from other men, dump your fiance, put on some makeup, dress up in an flattering outfit.


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## nykspree8 (Sep 3, 2009)

Rowan said:


> If you dont like something...CHANGE IT.
> 
> If you dont like being fat...either accept it or lose weight.
> 
> If you dont like not getting attention from other men, dump your fiance, put on some makeup, dress up in an flattering outfit.



What she said!


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 3, 2009)

FaxMachine1234 said:


> Yeah, that's the same thing as mentioning that you were in Acapulco once.



Dude. That isn't what happened, at all, and methinx you already know it.


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## katorade (Sep 3, 2009)

*mails a letter to TraciJo*


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## Lolita13 (Sep 3, 2009)

StarWitness said:


> Look, I'm the same way. I've never been the Pretty Girl (tm), but I crave other people's approval. And in the long term, it's been very damaging. I've come to the realization that I can't live my life this way, and I'm trying very hard to change.
> 
> You can't rely on other people. Other people's opinions change. Other people go away. *You* are the only constant in your life. If you want long-term peace of mind on any level, it has to come from an internal source.



I agree. Im trying hard to do this. Its hard to feel good when people stare at me and then say wow you blew up. Granted I am around very shallow people . I work in a fashion oriented buisness and being fat is worse than dying to these people. I just want to be healthy and happy at what ever weight. Its hard seeing how mean ppl can be ab out weight gain. Its my personal issue. I guess this isnt the forum for any kind of support . I thought maybe it would be, some one might be or went thru what I went thru and would offer words of wisdom. But I see many bitter ppl here. The comments have been rude and not helpfull . I have empathy towards people . I guess this isnt a place to ask questions or gain insight on what I am going thru!


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## Lolita13 (Sep 3, 2009)

Rowan said:


> If you dont like something...CHANGE IT.
> 
> If you dont like being fat...either accept it or lose weight.
> 
> If you dont like not getting attention from other men, dump your fiance, put on some makeup, dress up in an flattering outfit.



I didnt know LIFE was so cut and dry. Its really easy to lose weight? Y would I dump my fiance? Again someone else that doesnt understand this post but makes a comment.


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 3, 2009)

katorade said:


> *mails a letter to TraciJo*



Damn, but it's a catchy turn of a phrase. Must I stop? Must I?


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 3, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> I didnt know LIFE was so cut and dry. Its really easy to lose weight? Y would I dump my fiance? Again someone else that doesnt understand this post but makes a comment.



Lolita, please consider posting about your experiences on the BBW board. It is a protected area, and I know that you would receive kinder and far more empathetic responses there. Don't give up on Dims -- I know you are new, and this can seem (and be) a brutal place, but once you find your niche ... it's worth it. Opening yourself up and expressing vulnerability about your weight and your self-esteem is probably not a good idea on the Weight Board area, for reasons that I won't go into (they will become rather self-evident if you do spend more time here). Please -- consider posting on the BBW board.


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## katorade (Sep 3, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> I agree. Im trying hard to do this. Its hard to feel good when people stare at me and then say wow you blew up. Granted I am around very shallow people . I work in a fashion oriented buisness and being fat is worse than dying to these people. I just want to be healthy and happy at what ever weight. Its hard seeing how mean ppl can be ab out weight gain. Its my personal issue. I guess this isnt the forum for any kind of support . I thought maybe it would be, some one might be or went thru what I went thru and would offer words of wisdom. But I see many bitter ppl here. The comments have been rude and not helpfull . I have empathy towards people . I guess this isnt a place to ask questions or gain insight on what I am going thru!



Maybe you should get better friends. Seriously, I don't mean that to be mean. You see, the majority of us have been in the position you're in now for most of our lives, and we already know people suck for the most part, so you're just preaching to the choir. 

If you want to be healthy and happy at whatever weight, that's fine, but you have to put YOURSELF in that position and not just be upset about it and expect any amount of coddling or support to get it for you. Don't expect to come on here and say how much you hate being fat because of the way people look at you when your audience here IS fat. It's not a very good way to garner any support.


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## Rowan (Sep 3, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> I didnt know LIFE was so cut and dry. Its really easy to lose weight? Y would I dump my fiance? Again someone else that doesnt understand this post but makes a comment.



Its easy to lose weight if you put your mind to it, yes. 

What kind of support were you looking for when you come in here bitching about how you people have made comments about your size when you've gained and you work in a fashion occupation...were people to say "oh damn those fashionistas and not changing their views to suit your weight gain!". Get a clue. If you dont like the comments, change careers and get new friends who arent so shallow. And perhaps not EVERYONE around you is being negative about your weight gain, perhaps thats all you're choosing to see. 

You would dump your fiancee so that you can quit whining about men not paying attention to you. As many men in this thread have already pointed out...men dont go for women with a ring on their finger. DUH. Bitching and complaining that there are no FA's around to flatter you...why the hell should they when you're wearing an engagement ring! 

Im sure you would find encouragement if you actually had an issue worth lending encouragement to. I know i sure as hell wouldnt encourage a woman who seems like her fiancee isnt enough and she needs more male attention.


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## Carrie (Sep 3, 2009)

Rowan said:


> Its easy to lose weight if you put your mind to it, yes.


If that's been your personal experience with weight loss attempts, okay, but wow, *not* true for a lot, lot, lot of people.


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## Lolita13 (Sep 3, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Lolita, please consider posting about your experiences on the BBW board. It is a protected area, and I know that you would receive kinder and far more empathetic responses there. Don't give up on Dims -- I know you are new, and this can seem (and be) a brutal place, but once you find your niche ... it's worth it. Opening yourself up and expressing vulnerability about your weight and your self-esteem is probably not a good idea on the Weight Board area, for reasons that I won't go into (they will become rather self-evident if you do spend more time here). Please -- consider posting on the BBW board.



Hi, thanks. Where can I find this BBW board? It is on this site. I will look around. Thanks again


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 3, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Hi, thanks. Where can I find this BBW board? It is on this site. I will look around. Thanks again



Right here, Lolita. Please introduce yourself in the roll-call thread, and please do consider posting there!


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## Lolita13 (Sep 3, 2009)

katorade said:


> Maybe you should get better friends. Seriously, I don't mean that to be mean. You see, the majority of us have been in the position you're in now for most of our lives, and we already know people suck for the most part, so you're just preaching to the choir.
> 
> If you want to be healthy and happy at whatever weight, that's fine, but you have to put YOURSELF in that position and not just be upset about it and expect any amount of coddling or support to get it for you. Don't expect to come on here and say how much you hate being fat because of the way people look at you when your audience here IS fat. It's not a very good way to garner any support.



Yes, I guess this wasnt the best place for my post:doh:. I dont know if I hate being fat, I hate the negativity and the stigmas. I dont if I hate "being fat". Is the things that go along with it, if you can understand?


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## Rowan (Sep 3, 2009)

Carrie said:


> If that's been your personal experience with weight loss attempts, okay, but wow, *not* true for a lot, lot, lot of people.



I wouldnt say that it's EASY, but i think that if a person puts their mind to it, uses the right resources and such..they'd at least have a fighting chance in it.


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## Lolita13 (Sep 3, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Right here, Lolita. Please introduce yourself in the roll-call thread, and please do consider posting there!



Thanks! I have posted !


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## katorade (Sep 3, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Yes, I guess this wasnt the best place for my post:doh:. I dont know if I hate being fat, I hate the negativity and the stigmas. I dont if I hate "being fat". Is the things that go along with it, if you can understand?



I hear that. I think everyone can agree that it's really hard to enter into any lifestyle that is vastly different from what you're used to. I will tell you, though, you come through it a stronger person finding out just how shallow people can be when you thought they were friends. You really find out what and who is important in your life and who you should really surround yourself with.


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## Oirish (Sep 3, 2009)

FaxMachine1234 said:


> Yeah, that's the same thing as mentioning that you were in Acapulco once.



Seriously!


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## Lolita13 (Sep 3, 2009)

katorade said:


> I hear that. I think everyone can agree that it's really hard to enter into any lifestyle that is vastly different from what you're used to. I will tell you, though, you come through it a stronger person finding out just how shallow people can be when you thought they were friends. You really find out what and who is important in your life and who you should really surround yourself with.



This is it. No matter what size I will wind up being, I will be a better person and know what matters in life. I hope to get to that point soon. Thanks


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## KHayes666 (Sep 4, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Yes, I guess this wasnt the best place for my post:doh:. I dont know if I hate being fat, I hate the negativity and the stigmas. I dont if I hate "being fat". Is the things that go along with it, if you can understand?



now THAT I understand.

Its when you make posts that insinuate that your fiancee's attention isn't good enough and that you're horrified of the feeder/feedee lifestyle, that's when people won't take you seriously.

You're upset, you're hurt and you're confused....but still try to accept others around here if you want acceptance yourself. That's what almost everyone in here has done at one point or another

If it really bothers you then talk to your fiancee too. From a man's standpoint, if my fiancee said "yeah he gives me attention but i want more" I wouldn't be too happy either.


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## TheFlash976 (Sep 4, 2009)

I live near Philly too, and I love big girls. Sorry, I'm married though


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## Poncedeleon (Sep 4, 2009)

I think what caused people to react negatively to your first post was the attitude of entitlement that you seemed to have, as though you're _owed_ male attention. Yes, there are FAs out there, but they are the minority and not every FA is going to be attracted to every BBW.

Anyway, I'm sorry that the people in your life have been rude to you. I realize that it's impossible to completely disregard their comments, but at least try to put them in perspective and see that they ultimately aren't that important. If you're really feeling that miserable then maybe consider making an appointment to see your doctor and get a referral to a psychologist or psychiatrist.


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## Donna (Sep 5, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Also. yes I have a very caring man in my life. *But I cannot get my self esteem from him alone. Wanting possitive attention from humans is very natural for me.* I am a very social person and having EVEYONE around me reacting so negative to my weight has brought me down. Please try and open your minds to another aspect to all of this.



The part of your statement I have highlighted is, in my opinion, the root of the issue and something I urge you to examine more closely. I understand that obtaining your self-esteem from others comes naturally to you, but I am here to tell you that what comes natural may not always be what is best for us. My natural inclination is to look outward for validation. Unless one is completely anti-social, I think that inclination to crave validation/attention from others is a common trait. In some people, the inclination is stronger than in others, which is why some people have wonderful esteem all on their own and others have to work at it. 

Real self-esteem cannot come from others, though. As you are experiencing now, when that attention goes away, so does the esteem. Just as you have urged those of us reading your posts to open our minds to another aspect, I ask the same of you. Open your mind to the concept of developing your own esteem without the validation of others. Having others think of you as attractive is very subjective--looks change, society's tastes change. By allowing others to control how you feel about yourself (which in essence is what you are doing) you are allowing them to rent space in your head for free. You are giving up your power to them.

You say that everyone around you is reacting negatively to your weight gain. I wonder how you would have reacted if someone close to you went through a weight gain while you did not. Would the before weight gain Lolita have been as judgmental of the gain as your current circle of friends is being? You said it yourself, too. The stigmas and the stereotypes attached to being fat can be a real bitch. The positive to that bitch is that it can work as a sort of social barometer. As a fat woman, I have filtered out a great many empty and shallow people from my life. That, to me, is a positive of the whole "fat experience." 

Again, I urge you to look within; develop your own sense of awareness. Think of the things about yourself that you like and work on the things you feel you have to change. Talk to a professional as Poncedeleon suggested. No one owes you any praise but yourself. YOU do owe it to yourself.


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## Lolita13 (Sep 5, 2009)

Donna said:


> The part of your statement I have highlighted is, in my opinion, the root of the issue and something I urge you to examine more closely. I understand that obtaining your self-esteem from others comes naturally to you, but I am here to tell you that what comes natural may not always be what is best for us. My natural inclination is to look outward for validation. Unless one is completely anti-social, I think that inclination to crave validation/attention from others is a common trait. In some people, the inclination is stronger than in others, which is why some people have wonderful esteem all on their own and others have to work at it.
> 
> Real self-esteem cannot come from others, though. As you are experiencing now, when that attention goes away, so does the esteem. Just as you have urged those of us reading your posts to open our minds to another aspect, I ask the same of you. Open your mind to the concept of developing your own esteem without the validation of others. Having others think of you as attractive is very subjective--looks change, society's tastes change. By allowing others to control how you feel about yourself (which in essence is what you are doing) you are allowing them to rent space in your head for free. You are giving up your power to them.
> 
> ...



I really thank you so much for this post. This is exactly what I am going though. I have been ignoring certain places and people . I am attaching too much importance on others views. I know this. I am looking inside myself and discovering what makes me unique. I know I spent so much time working on the outside and ignoring the inside. I do have a therapist and she helps me, . She helped me find a great thing to say to these people. " Fat isnt contagious, dont worry you wont catch it". I love my therapist!!! Accually I do know what it was and is like to be overweight, I was 250 pounds before and worked really hard in my 20's to lose it. So I know what its like to be on both sides. I think I am more depressed because I have seen what my world was like thinner and now here I am fat again after all of these years. Before I was very very confident when I was 250 pounds, I thought I was the shit. I was healthy though, my energy was up. I was an active fat girl. I had male attention. I really never saw myself as fat untill people told me I was , then I freaked out and changed. I used to have this fuck you attitude. Nothing really got me down. I went through so much shit and still smiled and laughed through it all. Now I feel like societies puppet, sad as this is. I feel my value of myself is deemed from what people see at Neiman Marcus. This makes me even more depressed about myself. I feel all of my spunk and good qualities are gone and all I see is reflections of others negativity of me. Im so angry and hurt at myself for knowing this. I feel the pressure to fit in and I know I dont right now and I feel I dont deserve happiness and I hide. I really feel controlled by this and I know I have so much work to do to change this. I feel alone. I do have the BEST man in the world that loves me now matter what. I am soo lucky in that department. I think I should of started this thread differently, but I focused it on male attention and I didnt even realise that I meant from humans in general. I know for ME, it sucks to be fat right now . I feel lonely and smaller inside than I was, yet my outside is larger. I hope I am making sense right now. I cry all the damn time too, so its hard to type.


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## MsGreenLantern (Sep 6, 2009)

Okay...so you were fat before and got lots of male attention...then got thin...then got fat and got none? Come'on! We're supposed to believe you are confused and stunned by this change after having gone through it before? If you were fat and happy before, you can do so again, and you KNOW there are good men out there who will find you beautiful. Recapture the attitude.


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## nykspree8 (Sep 6, 2009)

Why do you feel the pressure to "fit in"? Life isn't a popularity contest, unless you're running for some kind of public office, which I highly doubt you are. Maybe if you try being yourself, stop looking so down upon yourself and accept yourself, others will too and whoever doesn't, fuck em.


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## AppreSheAte (Sep 6, 2009)

I read the thread and thought I'd contribute a few ideas...

1. How you carry yourself is extremely important. 
2. What attitude do you have? 
3. Do you make eye contact? 
4. Do you laugh or smile a lot? How happy you are, makes a big difference.
5. Are you clean, well kept, and care about how you look?
6. Are you shy?
7. Are you sensitive?
8. Are you tired?
9. Are you interested in what other people are doing? Do you help others?
10. Do you flirt? How? 

If I am laughing, I typically draw others to me and get attention. If I smile, others seem to approach me. If I feel good, I seem to also get more noticed.

:happy:


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## frankman (Sep 6, 2009)

AppreSheAte said:


> [...]
> 
> If I am laughing, I typically draw others to me and get attention. If I smile, others seem to approach me. [...]



This is especially true on funerals... 

(I really tried not to make this joke, but I couldn't resist. :doh


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## wolfpersona (Sep 6, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Yet when I was thin, I had lots of male attention. I am engaged but I never get any looks anymore. I had one guy try and pick me up at a make up counter and thats it .Where are all these Fat admiring men? In fact, all I see is guys not intrestedin me and the guys I knew repulsed at how much I gained. Im sad as hell. I have a pretty face . I dont get the damn your hot and men buying me drinks anymore. Whats up with that. Please dont say its because I have a man, we used to go out when I was thin and men still would talk to me. So I think this liking fat women is BS. I live in the Philadelphia area and guys here do NOT like heavy women. Is this all an internet fantasy?



For starters no its not an internet fantasy. There are alot of fa's out there. I live in Mass for instance, I see alot of fat girls and guys. People won't openly talk about it. You may hear some big person talk about losing weight and eating healthy, but then you think theyve been saying that for the past two years. But from what i see the fat admirations there. For instance I put on around sixty pounds. And a few girls at work commented that I gained wheight. I said Do I look bad. And they said no you look good. And I get a little more reaction from girls who would never even talk to me. There probably are people who think youre hot but wont want to say it only to be embarased by the negative social roadblocks people put up. *I would never talk to a girl if i knew she had a man. Just waisting my time.* No matter how hot she was.

Well has you boyfreind commented on your weight. Does He like it? Dislike it?
Not said anything at all? Who knows you male freinds might be a little jelous that they can't be with you. If there freinds why would they be repulsed. I havent had any female freinds in my life. Just girlfreinds.
When we break up thats it. Waist of time.


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## wolfpersona (Sep 6, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> I really thank you so much for this post. This is exactly what I am going though. I have been ignoring certain places and people . I am attaching too much importance on others views. I know this. I am looking inside myself and discovering what makes me unique. I know I spent so much time working on the outside and ignoring the inside. I do have a therapist and she helps me, . She helped me find a great thing to say to these people. " Fat isnt contagious, dont worry you wont catch it". I love my therapist!!! Accually I do know what it was and is like to be overweight, I was 250 pounds before and worked really hard in my 20's to lose it. So I know what its like to be on both sides. I think I am more depressed because I have seen what my world was like thinner and now here I am fat again after all of these years. Before I was very very confident when I was 250 pounds, I thought I was the shit. I was healthy though, my energy was up. I was an active fat girl. I had male attention. I really never saw myself as fat untill people told me I was , then I freaked out and changed. I used to have this fuck you attitude. Nothing really got me down. I went through so much shit and still smiled and laughed through it all. Now I feel like societies puppet, sad as this is. I feel my value of myself is deemed from what people see at Neiman Marcus. This makes me even more depressed about myself. I feel all of my spunk and good qualities are gone and all I see is reflections of others negativity of me. Im so angry and hurt at myself for knowing this. I feel the pressure to fit in and I know I dont right now and I feel I dont deserve happiness and I hide. I really feel controlled by this and I know I have so much work to do to change this. I feel alone. I do have the BEST man in the world that loves me now matter what. I am soo lucky in that department. I think I should of started this thread differently, but I focused it on male attention and I didnt even realise that I meant from humans in general. I know for ME, it sucks to be fat right now . I feel lonely and smaller inside than I was, yet my outside is larger. I hope I am making sense right now. I cry all the damn time too, so its hard to type.



Hey a few people call me a pig or a porker here and there. I just tell them there as thin as a rail. And its usually the skinny ones that do it. Their jelous because im tall and husky. I weigh 230 and gaining. I love my size.


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## pani (Sep 7, 2009)

I agree with Tall Fat Sue. I really think it has to do more with the vibrations you give and how you feel about yourself. I am almost 50, 238lbs and I still get flirted with and hit on. Not that I want to, I am quite happy being single. But since the day I was born I have never felt inferior to a single soul. If some people see that as arrogant oh well!

I also agree that Sue is perfectly justified in using the term bambi. In the first place, it has far less negative connotation than whale to the average person. (Although as a fat woman who can outlast lean men in the cold waters of Lake Michigan, I would rather be referred to as a whale than Bambi. I love staying in an hour or longer when the men run out shivering after 5 minutes.)

I also love Sue's come back. Sometime the only way to stop abuse is to fight fire with fire. I learned that after years of experience. For me not taking crap is more important that having everyone like me or cooperating with the oppressor. Back to the OPs complaint that her friends comment negatively on her weight gain, I have no friends like that. Because they don't remain friends after the second time. And I refuse to take any abuse from strangers or those I don't know very well. If someone said something negative to me about my weight, I tell them once I am happy with myself and have no respect for weight obsession. If they persist I look them straight in the eye and say " I am sorry you are so insecure about your looks, intelligence (whatever I think their Achilles heel is) that you feel your weight is your only redeeming quality. It may be mean but it is very effective. I am sure some folks just think me terrible! Oh well!!!


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## frankman (Sep 8, 2009)

pani said:


> [...]
> 
> I also agree that Sue is perfectly justified in using the term bambi. In the first place, it has far less negative connotation than whale to the average person. (Although as a fat woman who can outlast lean men in the cold waters of Lake Michigan, I would rather be referred to as a whale than Bambi. I love staying in an hour or longer when the men run out shivering after 5 minutes.)
> 
> [...]



My guess is that it's only okay to call thin women bambis when either: 

1) it's her actual name or her porn name, or 
2) when they have genuine and lasting friendships with a bunny and a skunk.


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## DISPATCHER1673 (Sep 8, 2009)

Lolita13
I would love to give you attention & words of praise , Tell you how much sexy you are, but I must not be looking in the right places, because i cant 
find 1 pic of you sweetie


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## frankman (Sep 8, 2009)

DISPATCHER1673 said:


> Lolita13
> I would love to give you attention & words of praise , Tell you how much sexy you are, but I must not be looking in the right places, because i cant
> find 1 pic of you sweetie



My thoughts exactly; it's not like it's a misguided question because she posted about a self-esteem issue . 

While we're on the subject: Dispatcher1673, could you post some sexy (preferably nekkid) pictures of you for the whole world to see? I'd be SUPERKIND in my comments. I'd even call you sweetie.


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## stldpn (Sep 8, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> I am engaged but I never get any looks anymore. I had one guy try and pick me up at a make up counter and thats it .Where are all these Fat admiring men?



As a BHM I'll tell you that the real hardcore stand up and be proud in public FAs (both male and female) are fewer and farther between than what you see here. I'm not attempting to disparage anyone but it takes a lot of guts for someone to come out and tell everyone they know that they are physically attracted to fat. It's just not what society encourages. So, you may be surrounded by FAs that just don't have the courage to run up and flirt with you in public. 

But I'll tell you this, not because I'm a big guy but because I'm a guy. All men who flirt are looking for someone who will probably flirt back. Body posture, dress, grooming, the way a woman talks, the energy that a woman puts off all keys to figuring out if a woman might be open to flirting. And if none of the visual signs are there you gotta be super ballsy to walk up and try to lay something slick on her. 

You may not realize it but if you've gotten engaged recently you may be putting out a completely different signal that doesn't encourage it. Also and unfortunately I feel this one is more likely, if because you've gained weight you don't feel as attractive as you once did people really can tell. Self confidence and self love (as cliche as it is) are very attractive instantly recognizable characteristics. 

So I'll tell you what I tell my thinner male friends when they complain about being shut down, if you think confidence is the problem, fake it till you get it. It may take years for you to accept your body for what it is and isn't, but if you fake it for awhile the positive and superficial effects of doing so may help you build the real thing. 

Anyway, I couldn't say definitively that that's the problem but if your confidence levels are down you need to recognize that feeling good about yourself is the key to success with almost all of the good things in life.


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 8, 2009)

frankman said:


> My thoughts exactly; it's not like it's a misguided question because she posted about a self-esteem issue .
> 
> While we're on the subject: Dispatcher1673, could you post some sexy (preferably nekkid) pictures of you for the whole world to see? I'd be SUPERKIND in my comments. I'd even call you sweetie.



You must REP other people before tossing it at The Frankman again (eff this REP system).


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## fatgirlflyin (Sep 8, 2009)

stldpn said:


> As a BHM I'll tell you that the real hardcore stand up and be proud in public FAs (both male and female) are fewer and farther between than what you see here. I'm not attempting to disparage anyone but it takes a lot of guts for someone to come out and tell everyone they know that they are physically attracted to fat.



I don't understand this. Why would anyone feel the need to explain what they are attracted to? I am attracted to certain types of men and women. I don't walk around explaining to my friends, family, or even strangers what kind of men or women I'm attracted to. Its nobody's business but my own. I assume that because of the type of people I choose to date, that my preferences are pretty obvious.


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## frankman (Sep 8, 2009)

fatgirlflyin said:


> I don't understand this. Why would anyone feel the need to explain what they are attracted to? I am attracted to certain types of men and women. I don't walk around explaining to my friends, family, or even strangers what kind of men or women I'm attracted to. Its nobody's business but my own. I assume that because of the type of people I choose to date, that my preferences are pretty obvious.



Exactly. And in a social vacuum, you would be right.


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## fatgirlflyin (Sep 8, 2009)

frankman said:


> Exactly. And in a social vacuum, you would be right.



So did you sit your family down and tell them you like fat girls? Or brunettes (if you prefer them), or girls with big tits? If so, what did you expect to gain?

ETA: Not trying to pick a fight, I truly want to understand why anyone feels they need to explain their preference in a mate.


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## Saoirse (Sep 8, 2009)

Wasn't Bambi a MALE deer? I never understood why its used in reference to women...


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## frankman (Sep 8, 2009)

fatgirlflyin said:


> So did you sit your family down and tell them you like fat girls? Or brunettes (if you prefer them), or girls with big tits? If so, what did you expect to gain?
> 
> ETA: Not trying to pick a fight, I truly want to understand why anyone feels they need to explain their preference in a mate.



Well, you don't exactly sit em down, but in some conversations, not all, but some, things like "what's your type" do come up. I can imagine a whole bunch of situations where that would be the object of the conversation, not just spin-the-bottle crap. Perhaps it's a guy thing, but I suspect girlies do the same. Point is, although it's not anyone's business really, I talk with my friends about my life and theirs, including, but not exclusively, stuff about what/who I consider sexy, "my type", their type, and what/who they consider sexy.

Perhaps people don't talk like this with their mom and dad (depends on what kind of relationship you have with them of course). But yes, it does get talked about a lot.

If you consider this forum a bunch of people shooting bull, this thread is proof it's on people's minds. We talk about it. Eventhough it's no one's business really.


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## fatgirlflyin (Sep 8, 2009)

frankman said:


> Well, you don't exactly sit em down, but in some conversations, not all, but some, things like "what's your type" do come up. I can imagine a whole bunch of situations where that would be the object of the conversation, not just spin-the-bottle crap. Perhaps it's a guy thing, but I suspect girlies do the same. Point is, although it's not anyone's business really, I talk with my friends about my life and theirs, including, but not exclusively, stuff about what/who I consider sexy, "my type", their type, and what/who they consider sexy.
> 
> Perhaps people don't talk like this with their mom and dad (depends on what kind of relationship you have with them of course). But yes, it does get talked about a lot.
> 
> If you consider this forum a bunch of people shooting bull, this thread is proof it's on people's minds. We talk about it. Eventhough it's no one's business really.



You know, I can see that. I guess I was just imagining people sitting their friends and family down and giving some long drawn out explanation. Thanks for putting it in a way that makes sense to me!


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## stldpn (Sep 8, 2009)

Well I think I'm in the same lake if not the same boat. I date who I date, and generally the only people that I feel obligated to explain my preferences to are the people I'm interested in. 

However, if you're not into the same thing your friend is into and it's obvious. You may have some explaining to do. I mean think of it this way, you may have this male mgr at work who's always seemed very straight laced, very traditional, very professional, and one day something happens to his clothes at work so he calls home and asks someone to bring him a fresh shirt. If a guy who looks like the biker from the village people walks in carrying the bosses shirt you may be a little shocked. You're only shocked because he didn't warn you and he just doesn't look like a gay leather daddy every morning when he shows up crisp and clean in his teal lancer. You never meant to judge him, but you never saw his partner before and you made assumptions based on what you considered normal. It's a part of human nature, your boss may even expect you to gossip about it a little because that's human nature too. 

I think the burden is honestly less on chubbies who date other chubbies and women who date chubby men for two very different reasons. 

There's a societal perception that two people who look alike are more compatible. The reality is that we all wear many hats publicly and privately. You can't just couple two people together based on what a scale says or how they dress or how many peircings and tattoos they have. The sides of ourselves that we show to lovers and potential mates can be very different than what we show the rest of the world. 

Women on the other hand i think are expected to look beyond a guy's gut more so than men are. If a woman is with a 300lb man there are very few assumptions made because not all women date the big guys because they find the fat attractive. Therefore there are very few questions given to a woman about why she would be physically attracted to a sumo wrestler if he has kind eyes, a good sense of humor, etc. 

Thin guys who are into big girls have my sympathy. they get it from all ends and so many of the people in their life feel justified in their prejudices. 




fatgirlflyin said:


> I don't understand this. Why would anyone feel the need to explain what they are attracted to? I am attracted to certain types of men and women. I don't walk around explaining to my friends, family, or even strangers what kind of men or women I'm attracted to. Its nobody's business but my own. I assume that because of the type of people I choose to date, that my preferences are pretty obvious.


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 8, 2009)

stldpn said:


> Thin guys who are into big girls have my sympathy. they get it from all ends and so many of the people in their life feel justified in their prejudices.



Your _sympathy_? Are you for real?

Dude, it's a preference for fat people. It's not rocket science. You're not out risking life and limb while defending your country. You aren't donating a kidney to a stranger. Though, from reading this, it appears that you are in need of a donation yourself ... a larger pair of gonads, and stat.


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## Tooz (Sep 8, 2009)

Saoirse said:


> Wasn't Bambi a MALE deer? I never understood why its used in reference to women...



Bambine. That's what I always thought.


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## stldpn (Sep 8, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Your _sympathy_? Are you for real?
> 
> Dude, it's a preference for fat people. It's not rocket science. You're not out risking life and limb while defending your country. You aren't donating a kidney to a stranger. Though, from reading this, it appears that you are in need of a donation yourself ... a larger pair of gonads, and stat.



Yes my sympathy... no one ever asks me why I'm dating a chubby chick. But, I can't imagine it's easy to listen to people saying hurtful things about someone you care about.

The fact that it's a preference for something means that it's not necessarily something you can defend in a logical manor. The only words you have are "It's my choice, it's what i like." The fact that it's an obvious preference for something that's mostly done in private means that it's something most people won't want to own up to as a preference. 

I've said nothing about my own personal preferences or needs. The fact that you feel the need to jump to conclusions about my manhood let's me know you may be reading more with your emotions than with your eyes.


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 8, 2009)

stldpn said:


> Yes my sympathy... no one ever asks me why I'm dating a chubby chick. But, I can't imagine it's easy to listen to people saying hurtful things about someone you care about.
> 
> The fact that it's a preference for something means that it's not necessarily something you can defend in a logical manor. The only words you have are "It's my choice, it's what i like." The fact that it's an obvious preference for something that's mostly done in private means that it's something most people won't want to own up to as a preference.
> 
> I've said nothing about my own personal preferences or needs. *The fact that you feel the need to jump to conclusions about my manhood *let's me know you may be reading more with your emotions than with your eyes.



No, dude. The fact that you used the word "sympathy" in relation to people who have a preference for fat men/women speaks VOLUMES about your manhood. No female hysterics here. Sorry


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## mergirl (Sep 8, 2009)

Rowan said:


> Its easy to lose weight if you put your mind to it, yes.
> 
> .


If this was true then why would anyone need to have wls? Or was that what you ment by easy?


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## mergirl (Sep 8, 2009)

Saoirse said:


> Wasn't Bambi a MALE deer? I never understood why its used in reference to women...



As in Bambino?, which i think is Italian for Baby. You hear people calling women 'Baby' a lot.


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## stldpn (Sep 8, 2009)

No it only speaks toward your preconceived notions about my life experiences. I sympathize with people who are up against an obstacle that i can only imagine. I pity them for having to reserve internal strength to defend their own happiness. 

I suppose you don't have sympathy for people who experience other types of judgemental behaviour either? It is difficult to go against the societal grain if you have a preference that society calls odd. It's even more difficult if people in your own inner circle aren't willing to accept it and support it.

Elementary school teaches us not to stick out. That reaching out to people who stick out is dangerous. I sympathize with anyone who wants to go against the societal standard when they started out being "sociall acceptable." I don't think it's as easy as making one choice.

BTW I find the use of the term dud to be derogatory beyond measure I am dan, stldpn, sir, or mister newman. Unless of course you'd like to be reffered to as "chickie"


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 8, 2009)

stldpn said:


> No it only speaks toward your preconceived notions about my life experiences. I sympathize with people who are up against an obstacle that i can only imagine. I pity them for having to reserve internal strength to defend their own happiness.
> 
> I suppose you don't have sympathy for people who experience other types of judgemental behaviour either? It is difficult to go against the societal grain if you have a preference that society calls odd. It's even more difficult if people in your own inner circle aren't willing to accept it and support it.
> 
> Elementary school teaches us not to stick out. That reaching out to people who stick out is dangerous. I sympathize with anyone who wants to go against the societal standard when they started out being "sociall acceptable." I don't think it's as easy as making one choice.



We aren't in elementary school any longer. Sooner or later, we get to choose which lesson stay with us, and which we should dump. 

It serves no purpose to feel sympathy for people who are so cowered by imagined societal pressures that the cannot live their lives in a way that is meaningful to them. Furthermore, it is harmful to the men or women that they pursue, unless they have the decency to refuse to date at all (or have their sexual needs met). I wouldn't want to be anyone's dirty little secret; in fact, I would refuse to be that. And for the record, I'm not a fat woman. I'm not personalizing this issue, at least not in the way that you seem to be implying. 

The other day, I saw a man in the grocery store. His appearance was ... beyond shocking. He had massive, very disfiguring tumors all over his face and his body. When I saw him, I did a double-take; I thought that he was wearing a costume, at first. I didn't mean to stare or cause him any distress. It was a gut reaction on my part, and judging by the look that passed over his face when we made eye contact, he's very well accustomed to such a reaction. Yet, he's out and about, shopping for groceries with his wife and inuring himself, as best he can, from societal reactions. I doubt very much that man would identify himself as being 'courageous', nor would I condescend to applying that label to him. It's just what his life is. Expressing a preference for fat women takes no courage at all. I'm married to a southeast asian Indian man, and I have an Indian child. When we're traveling in the South (or in his country, for that matter) should I expect a medal pinned to my lapel because I'm willing to overlook the obvious bigotry of ignorant strangers? When I think about it at all (which is to say, almost never), I don't spend an ounce of time worrying about what my marriage says about ME. Instead, I think that anyone who has a problem with it is the very caricature of a backwoods, outhouse riggin', country dwellin, mullet-sproutin, cousin marryin' redneck fucktard (no offense to all backwoods dwelling, outhouse rigging etc etc rednecks) 

A man who cannot come out of the closet with regard to his preference is a coward and he's no friend to the size acceptance movement. Nope, he doesn't have my 'sympathy' at all. The only positive emotion I could muster up, in fact, would be a vague, generalized gratitude if the guy acknowledged that he was too effed up to date anyone.

ETA: I do apologize for 'dude'. It was unthinking.


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## Rowan (Sep 8, 2009)

mergirl said:


> If this was true then why would anyone need to have wls? Or was that what you ment by easy?




Reposted since you either missed it or didnt bother to read it:




Rowan said:


> I wouldnt say that it's EASY, but i think that if a person puts their mind to it, uses the right resources and such..they'd at least have a fighting chance in it.



and no...putting a person's mind to it and using resources is not an automatic cheer for wls. You are just assuming that.


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## stldpn (Sep 8, 2009)

It's nice that you can look at such things in broad and sweeping terms. But the reality of it is we weren't talking about having sympathy for the guys who are hiding in their holes because of their preferences. Mostly because I don't know them personally and i doubt they're going to want to stand up and be counted herewhen there is obvious hostility toward them. 

I was talking about guys who deal every day with the reality that people are going to talk. And it's not gonna be nice things all the time, and people are going to say things in front of them without even knowing that they're attacking a personal preference. Those are real internal quandries that strike in unexpected ways. The ability to raise up and say hey, it's not like that, you've offended me. That is courageous. Cause that's not like the guy with the tumors, his issues and societal issues are obvious. Somebody who is dealing with something that no one else sees has to be courageous to bring it into the light if they know there's going to be consequences. 

And these aren't ignorant people as much as you'd like to pretend they are. They're just people. 

Trust me dating a person of color isn't the same. Until the last couple years, I never really dated white girls. Walking around with my indian gf and getting approached by furry indian guys who wanted to ask her why she wanted to date an american wasn't fun but it wasn't the same. Because other than the select few, most people recognize that talking shit about interacial couples isn't socially acceptable anymore. 

Talking crap about fat girls... still very acceptable. 

Size acceptance is working to change that, but it won't happen overnight and dividing the house certainly doesn't make it happen faster. Part of the goal as i understood it is to convince these people that are "cowering" to come out and talk about their experiences and their preferences irl and recognizing that there is nothing wrong with them. 

Your approach may be fed by some very justified emotions but it doesn't accomplish the goal and if anything it only pushes people back. You can't ask for understanding and support without giving it to someone else. Elevating yourself by means of downgrading someone else isn't really elevation.


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## katorade (Sep 8, 2009)

Stldpn, if you're an FA, then I believe the word you're looking for is empathy. If not you very well could be looking down your nose at someone that really doesn't feel any need to be pitied. What you might think is a very hard lifestyle for them may actually be very rewarding, and the opposition they face could be small potatoes in their mind.

Also, eeeeeveryone puts up with opposing views. Do you pity them as well? Being a republican in a democratic state. Being a parent in a room full of single people. Being a single person in a room full of couples. Being a minority in a room full of the social norm. Being on the other end of the spectrum of what people see as conventional beauty, etc., etc. You simply cannot have sympathy for all of these people. Empathize with some of them, sure, but there's absolutely no need for your sympathy.

And...are you SURE you live in Central Florida? While in polite society it's perceived as improper to question someone's interracial relationship, there is still a huuuuuge lack of acceptance of it. There's so much "I have black/indian/asian friends but I would never date them" or "I have nothing against black/indian/asian people but god forbid my child ever brought one home". The bullshit closet racism is still very much alive. Not to mention that it IS very socially impolite to ask ANYONE why they are dating someone, fat or not.


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## joswitch (Sep 8, 2009)

fatgirlflyin said:


> I don't understand this. Why would anyone feel the need to explain what they are attracted to? I am attracted to certain types of men and women. I don't walk around explaining to my friends, family, or even strangers what kind of men or women I'm attracted to. Its nobody's business but my own. I assume that because of the type of people I choose to date, that my preferences are pretty obvious.



Errr... I don't "explain" as such... But I talk to my friends and my family about the stuff that MATTERS to me... And the cute fat chicks I desire and date MATTER to me... so yeah I wang on about them... probably a fair bit....:blush: depending... And altho' my family aren't hugely fat-phobic they do have some internalised thin+dieting=good BS so I have mentioned "Ok now you're gonna meet X tonight... Now she's a BBW so no remarks about weight / diets or stuff" or words to that effect... and maybe I've stuck up for BBWs we might have seen out and about when some remark might've been made in passing... tho' on the whole my family and friends are pretty damn cool so....

Oh yeah and I write and perform songs and poems so my love for BBWs pops up in some of those too.... Cos it's a big part of me, and, well, I'm a *professional* gobshite.... yes I get paid to show off basically...


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## nykspree8 (Sep 8, 2009)

frankman said:


> Well, you don't exactly sit em down, but in some conversations, not all, but some, things like "what's your type" do come up..



Let's say I'm at work and talking to a buddy and some chick will walk by and he'll do the guy nod towards her and I'll be like, "yeah sure ok", then he'll proceed to question me what was wrong with her and I'll be like, "she's not fat" lol. I think mostly everyone at work knows my preference of bbws cause they've seen me with my ex who worked there, girls I've dated, or I've just flat out told them I like fat chicks if topics of convo involving girls comes up. 

But yeah, I never feel the need to have to sit down and chat with friends and family about my dating preferences. It's not like I hide it, so they should be aware of it


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 8, 2009)

katorade said:


> Stldpn, if you're an FA, then I believe the word you're looking for is empathy. If not you very well could be looking down your nose at someone that really doesn't feel any need to be pitied. What you might think is a very hard lifestyle for them may actually be very rewarding, and the opposition they face could be small potatoes in their mind.
> 
> Also, eeeeeveryone puts up with opposing views. Do you pity them as well? Being a republican in a democratic state. Being a parent in a room full of single people. Being a single person in a room full of couples. Being a minority in a room full of the social norm. Being on the other end of the spectrum of what people see as conventional beauty, etc., etc. You simply cannot have sympathy for all of these people. Empathize with some of them, sure, but there's absolutely no need for your sympathy.
> 
> And...are you SURE you live in Central Florida? While in polite society it's perceived as improper to question someone's interracial relationship, there is still a huuuuuge lack of acceptance of it. There's so much "I have black/indian/asian friends but I would never date them" or "I have nothing against black/indian/asian people but god forbid my child ever brought one home". The bullshit closet racism is still very much alive. Not to mention that it IS very socially impolite to ask ANYONE why they are dating someone, fat or not.



Every bit of this. 

Also, I think we're talking around each other, instead of to each other, Stldpn. I don't see any need to advertise who and what I am to others. I do hear fat jokes or disparaging comments about fat people at times; by looking at me, someone who doesn't know me wouldn't know that I was once a very fat woman myself. I have no need to explain that to someone who makes a rude remark, nor would I talk about the fact that I'm an FA, if I were a man. Instead, when I hear "jokes" or comments aimed at a fat person, I say something like, "I don't find that kind of humor at all funny." I'll leave the daily activism to people like Russell Williams. In my world, it's enough simply to be true to my principles and ideals. I want (sometimes very badly) to be liked by others, but I need to be respected moreso than liked. I'm not unduly concerned with how a sharp, very pointed response to a hateful remark is going to be taken. I'm thinking, just in reading your response, that you are making more of this issue than what is actually there. You are under no obligation to fly your "FA" flag. There are a lot of men and women, many of them regulars here, who date/marry fat people exclusively. And just as men or women who prefer thin people feel no need to advertise their sexuality, neither do the FA/FFA's. This is altogether different than being closeted, however, and I will admit that I got the "closet" vibe from you ... most particularly when you used the term "sympathy" to describe an FA's preference. 

I am in no way comparing my interracial marriage with any other kind of relationship; I was using it as an illustrative example of how I cope with the occasional remarks or nasty glances that I get from people who see me out with my family. I don't worry about what motives them, or about educating them, or about what they think of me. I don't waste one second of my precious time on that kind of thing. I'm proud of my family, and over the moon in motherly love with my little boy, and I could not care less what anyone else thinks. I live my life to suit *me*. I deserve no accolades and no "sympathy" from others. If my husband and child's race was removed from the equation and we substituted "fat" instead, I would feel no differently about it.


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## kilo riley (Sep 9, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Yet when I was thin, I had lots of male attention. I am engaged but I never get any looks anymore. I had one guy try and pick me up at a make up counter and thats it .Where are all these Fat admiring men? In fact, all I see is guys not intrestedin me and the guys I knew repulsed at how much I gained. Im sad as hell. I have a pretty face . I dont get the damn your hot and men buying me drinks anymore. Whats up with that. Please dont say its because I have a man, we used to go out when I was thin and men still would talk to me. So I think this liking fat women is BS. I live in the Philadelphia area and guys here do NOT like heavy women. Is this all an internet fantasy?



yes it's mostly a fantasy on the interwebs. :doh:

you got fat and now you have learned a lesson. It's not about how many guys offer to buy you a drink. It's about how many want to get to know you for who you are.


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## stldpn (Sep 9, 2009)

Yes I live in Central FL now, I lived in Boston then... however, I'm from this area so it's not like I don't come and see the folks every 3-6 months. I'll acknowledge there are some scary places here where you can hear the klan rhetoric loud and clear. But there are also Metropolitan areas like boston that are so greatly afflicted with racism that they are actually polite about holding the african americans and latinos in their own communities. 
BTW it was not the fat thing they had an issue with it was the American thing

But I digress, the racism is a whole other thread that you're welcome to start just take my word for it. it's not even the same ballpark. Mostly because the remarks of a race bigot are broader, less personal and not as intensely psychological. 

I'm not an actual dyed in the wool FA much to my beloved's chagrin I kind of have an open door "come in if you're wonderful" policy. But because I'm a 300+ chunky butt myself no one would ever question my choice of a larger mate. No one would ever try to tell me that I'm settling for less by hooking up with a big girl. 

My brother on the other hand is not so lucky. He's a good looking athletic built kid. He's dating a relatively small bbw and he's taking way too much shit for it. He even takes shit from his gf because she doesn't understand why it stresses him out to listen to guys talk about his gf like she's inadequate. I've never had it happen to me, I've never had a truely relatable experience so all I can do is sympathize.

Sympathy is: I'm sorry that you're experiencing preassure from your mom and dad. 
Empathy is: Mom and dad did the same thing to me, I'm sorry you have to go through it too.

I've been sneered at plenty for being a fat boy, but I've never been treated disrespectfully because of who I love. 

Besides I'm not going to claim expert status but I fail to see where women can really fully understand the gravity of the things that get discussed when men are in a non-mixed group. Men and women relate to their peers differently. And yeah for all you ladies that are gonna say it I did just pull the "man" card.


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## frankman (Sep 9, 2009)

stldpn said:


> BTW I find the use of the term dud to be derogatory beyond measure I am dan, stldpn, sir, or mister newman. Unless of course you'd like to be reffered to as "chickie"



Oh, come on mac, all the other hip cats call eachother dude. Don't be a square, dig?


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 9, 2009)

stldpn said:


> Besides I'm not going to claim expert status but I fail to see where women can really fully understand the gravity of the things that get discussed when men are in a non-mixed group. Men and women relate to their peers differently. And yeah for all you ladies that are gonna say it I did just pull the "man" card.



Would you walk into a MADD meeting, and tell the grieving mothers in attendance there that you sympathize with alcoholics? While your sympathy may be understandable, in certain situations, your audience would not appreciate your expressed feelings, and would probably feel very offended. This isn't the place to talk about feeling SYMPATHY for FA's who are conflicted and/or closeted about their feelings. Frankly, I don't think that there is a place where you should feel free to say this and expect no negative feedback. It implies that there must be something wrong or shameful about being fat. And here's the thing: _There's nothing wrong with it at all._ Hence, the shame or the conflict felt by the FA/FFA is his or her baggage, which means that it is his or her problem -- not societal. 

I think that you ask for far too much when you expect anyone to empathize with a conflicted FA. NO relationship is easy or without significant problems. Things like size (and race, and sexual orientation) should be of no concern to two emotionally healthy adults. There are far too many other things (differences in opinions about finances, religious beliefs, child rearing ... to name a few) that serve as major stumbling blocks. 

I understand that many gay/lesbian people are closeted, and to some extent, I can empathize. They can still face discrimination that *does* significantly affect their ability to earn a living, far less (in some areas) just LIVE without the fear of being persecuted/beaten up/disowned by family members. Still ... most openly gay people would probably say that a closet case should just stay in the closet and avoid any kind of relationship.


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## stldpn (Sep 9, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> If my husband and child's race was removed from the equation and we substituted "fat" instead, I would feel no differently about it.



The option of "if" is something you will probably never know for sure in your personal situation. Theoretically sure. In practice no. It's good to have arguement, and opinion ,and belief. But since you haven't brought me a thin FA willing to say that he has never felt societal, personal or familial preasure to ignore his preference I'm gonna say we're both full of conjecture. 

But, I can at least tell you I've talked to someone who hasn't experienced overwhelming support of his "preference." And the fact that he can't expect support or respect for his choices makes me feel bad for him.


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## mergirl (Sep 9, 2009)

Rowan said:


> Reposted since you either missed it or didnt bother to read it:
> and no...putting a person's mind to it and using resources is not an automatic cheer for wls. You are just assuming that.


I didn't assume you were cheering for wls or that anyone was. I was saying that IF it were easy to lose weight then there would be no need for wls..
I think you are backpeddling a wee bit there Rowan.



Rowan said:


> Its easy to lose weight if you put your mind to it, yes.
> 
> .





Rowan said:


> I wouldnt say that it's EASY, but i think that if a person puts their mind to it, uses the right resources and such..they'd at least have a fighting chance in it.



I expect your next post to be-"Actually for some it is very difficult/impossible"
I wouldn't think you were wls cheerleading if you admitted this btw..
Anyway, i'm glad you seem to think losing weight is so easy, i know a lot of people who don't.


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## stldpn (Sep 9, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Would you walk into a MADD meeting, and tell the grieving mothers in attendance there that you sympathize with alcoholics? While your sympathy may be understandable, in certain situations, your audience would not appreciate your expressed feelings, and would probably feel very offended. This isn't the place to talk about feeling SYMPATHY for FA's who are conflicted and/or closeted about their feelings. Frankly, I don't think that there is a place where you should feel free to say this and expect no negative feedback..



I suppose that I didn't expect sharply worded abuse ie "You should get some gonads" in an atmosphere that encourages acceptance. Negative feedback is one thing. But if you think negativity towards others breeds acceptance in the broader scale then there's not much point to your reply because the discussion ends there. (But if in fact you want to know how this group was formed and what it's original mission statements entailed please read on you might find the little link to conrad's speach at the end a bit of a shocker)

Your example of walking into a MADD meeting is a bit flawed mostly because a closeted FA isn't going to kill someone. And even then, MADD as an organization doesn't express anger toward alcoholics unless they have by action done something that endangers the public. On the whole they are actually suprising supportive of adults who consume responsibly, and treatment programs for the men and women who can't. 



TraciJo67 said:


> It implies that there must be something wrong or shameful about being fat. And here's the thing: _There's nothing wrong with it at all._ Hence, the shame or the conflict felt by the FA/FFA is his or her baggage, which means that it is his or her problem -- not societal.
> 
> I think that you ask for far too much when you expect anyone to empathize with a conflicted FA. NO relationship is easy or without significant problems. Things like size (and race, and sexual orientation) should be of no concern to two emotionally healthy adults. There are far too many other things (differences in opinions about finances, religious beliefs, child rearing ... to name a few) that serve as major stumbling block.



If you want to tell me that there is no societal bias toward being fat or liking fat. I would be interested to know how you came to that conclusion. 

How many emotionally healthy people do you really know? Because, I don't know any. We're all messed up. It's just a question of if we're messed up / different in a way that is societally acceptable or not. 



TraciJo67 said:


> I understand that many gay/lesbian people are closeted, and to some extent, I can empathize. They can still face discrimination that *does* significantly affect their ability to earn a living, far less (in some areas) just LIVE without the fear of being persecuted/beaten up/disowned by family members. Still ... most openly gay people would probably say that a closet case should just stay in the closet and avoid any kind of relationship.



It's still different there are legal protections in place for lgbt which means that we've all come together and said offically that discrimination is not ok. We haven't sanctioned them by any means but we've decided they deserve to exist in relative harmony without fear of workplace discrimination.

Then again, I find it interesting that you're willing to speak for the whole of the homosexual community too. heh heh The gay community's sole issue with seeking validation of gay unions is it's lack of ability to effectively rally behind a singular acceptance banner. They're so busy ripping each other apart on policy issues that they're not likely to get anything done. They're not a real good model for political success these days. 

But taking your example and running with it? Most gays don't pop out of the womb fully emotionally formed and ready to tell the whole world. No one does that, we all go through life stumbling falling and sometimes learning. 

Here's my supporting link. I could be wrong but I took the following http://www.vimeo.com/5328856 to mean that this place was created to help FA's come out of the closet. It was actually and honestly originally designed for other FA's by an FA.


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## joswitch (Sep 9, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> *snip* This isn't the place to talk about feeling SYMPATHY for FA's who are conflicted and/or closeted about their feelings.



Yeah, perhaps not in this thread...



> Frankly, I don't think that there is a place where you should feel free to say this and expect no negative feedback.



that's your opinion... and you're entiltled to it... But luckily it isn't your call - there's the FA board which is protected.... dude should go post that stuff over there... 



> It implies that there must be something wrong or shameful about being fat.
> And here's the thing: _There's nothing wrong with it at all._ Hence, the shame or the conflict felt by the FA/FFA is his or her baggage, which means that it is his or her problem -- not societal.



I agree that there's NOTHING wrong with being fat...

But you're saying that societal hostility has no effect on people's baggage???
Seriously? WTF?



> I think that you ask for far too much when you expect anyone to empathize with a conflicted FA. NO relationship is easy or without significant problems. Things like size (and race, and sexual orientation) should be of no concern to two emotionally healthy adults.



Aaaaaand a whole bunch of adults are NOT "emotionally healthy" in a whole bunch of ways... and if some of them are closeted FAs maybe it would be useful for them to post somewhere like DIMS (FA board) and maybe a little tea, sympathy and constructive input might help them get "healthy" and uncloseted in that respect... In contrast with attacking them and invalidating their feelings, for instance, which seems to be your advocated policy... I can hear closet doors slamming shut again from here...



> There are far too many other things (differences in opinions about finances, religious beliefs, child rearing ... to name a few) that serve as major stumbling blocks.
> 
> I understand that many gay/lesbian people are closeted, and to some extent, I can empathize. They can still face discrimination that *does* significantly affect their ability to earn a living, far less (in some areas) just LIVE without the fear of being persecuted/beaten up/disowned by family members. Still ... most openly gay people would probably say that a closet case should just stay in the closet and avoid any kind of relationship.



Do you actually believe that fat people (and the people that love them) never experience abuse and violence because they are fat (are with a fat partner)?
Cos - you're wrong.
I can tell you that straight up from: my personal life experience, that of my ex- gfs and a whole bunch of accounts I've read...
And yeah that doesn't push *me* back in the closet, but it does make me a little less condemning towards the closeted FA than, say, you are...

And btw - what you (and to an extent the chap you're arguing with) are engaged in is "oppression olympics". i.e. a false comparsion of different sufferings...

It doesn't make person "A" LESS oppressed because person "B" is oppressed for different reasons in a different way and is suffering MORE... 

If I am skint and have no food to eat, it doesn't make me less hungry to know there are "children starving in Africa"... Both things are suffering, different sufferings... Sure the latter is worse but it doesn't make the former less than it is...


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 9, 2009)

joswitch said:


> Yeah, perhaps not in this thread...
> 
> 
> 
> that's your opinion... and you're entiltled to it... But luckily it isn't your call - there's the FA board which is protected.... dude should go post that stuff over there...



You're right - he can post there. I'm betting, though, that he'll take at least some heat, even there, from other FA's who are equally impatient with the notion of coddling someone out of the closet. 




> I agree that there's NOTHING wrong with being fat...
> 
> But you're saying that societal hostility has no effect on people's baggage???
> Seriously? WTF?



I'm saying that it shouldn't. Look, I know that it does. I have limited patience for people who allow it to influence how they live their lives. I'm not a therapist, I don't play one on TV, and I don't have to be patient. I know that there are some women who would be ... more than happy ... to nurture and coddle, and I don't mean that in a negative way, because that would be her choice to make, and I respect that (assuming that she knows upfront that the man she's dating has shame issues about being seen with her in public, that is). 




> Aaaaaand a whole bunch of adults are NOT "emotionally healthy" in a whole bunch of ways... and if some of them are closeted FAs maybe it would be useful for them to post somewhere like DIMS (FA board) and maybe a little tea, sympathy and constructive input might help them get "healthy" and uncloseted in that respect... In contrast with attacking them and invalidating their feelings, for instance, which seems to be your advocated policy... I can hear closet doors slamming shut again from here...



Again, though ... I'm under no obligation to be at all patient or understanding about it. I wouldn't date someone who had any kind of hang-up or shame issue about being seen with me, and I wouldn't advise anyone that I care about to sacrifice their own self-esteem in that way, either. Because the closet FA's baggage doesn't just affect him, does it? 




> Do you actually believe that fat people (and the people that love them) never experience abuse and violence because they are fat (are with a fat partner)?
> Cos - you're wrong.
> I can tell you that straight up from: my personal life experience, that of my ex- gfs and a whole bunch of accounts I've read...
> And yeah that doesn't push *me* back in the closet, but it does make me a little less condemning towards the closeted FA than, say, you are...



I'm not sure where this is coming from, joswitch. I never implied that fat people don't have issues of abuse/violence or any other sad circumstance that many people face, race/size/orientation aside. The examples that I gave weren't intended to be the ONLY obstacles that people face in relationships; however, from my perspective, they are common ones that emotionally healthy adults face. I didn't bring examples of abuse & violence up because it had nothing to do with the point that I was trying to make.



> And btw - what you (and to an extent the chap you're arguing with) are engaged in is "oppression olympics". i.e. a false comparsion of different sufferings...
> 
> It doesn't make person "A" LESS oppressed because person "B" is oppressed for different reasons in a different way and is suffering MORE...
> 
> If I am skint and have no food to eat, it doesn't make me less hungry to know there are "children starving in Africa"... Both things are suffering, different sufferings... Sure the latter is worse but it doesn't make the former less than it is...



I'm not comparing suffering. I have already said as much. The only comparison that I actually attempted was with regard to the difficulties that an openly gay person may face -- some have very real fear that it's far more than just snide, ignorant remarks or "jokes" from clueless morons. If I lived in the Bible Belt, and I was gay, I probably still would live my life with transparency (keeping in mind that I don't owe explanations to anyone) but I have to admit, I would fear repurcussions from employers, and possibly from hostile bigots looking to pick a fight. 

The examples that I used (orientation & race) were other ways of being "different" from the mainstream, and that the opinions of the ignorant public shouldn't affect how we live our lives. 

I cannot sympathize with this type of self-induced suffering, joswitch ... mainly because I feel that the cure is, quite literally, to just grow up. Why in the world should I care what my neighbor thinks, my employer thinks, the guy sitting in the cubicle next to me thinks ... of my choices, of how I live my life? Granted, an employer has some degree of control over my livelihood ... but to that end, is anyone suggesting that if OP's employer found out that he likes to date fat chicks, it may limit his employment options?!?


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## Rowan (Sep 9, 2009)

Interesting how this thread became more about the regulars arguing amongst themself, when the OP came in here in august of last year and did the same thing by saying how disgusting feeders and feedee's were when she had only 4 posts to her name. Seems like a once a year visit just to cause trouble. But that's just mho.


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## joswitch (Sep 9, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> I cannot sympathize with this type of self-induced suffering, joswitch ... mainly because I feel that the cure is, quite literally, to *just grow up*. Why in the world should I care what my neighbor thinks, my employer thinks, the guy sitting in the cubicle next to me thinks ... of my choices, of how I live my life? .....



Yeaaaah... as you say, you're no therapist.... and I'm not either... but I'm pretty sure saying "just grow up" ain't gonna be much help in getting more folks out of the closet... but as you say, you're not interested in helping them come out...


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 9, 2009)

joswitch said:


> Yeaaaah... as you say, you're no therapist.... and I'm not either... but I'm pretty sure saying "just grow up" ain't gonna be much help in getting more folks out of the closet... but as you say, you're not interested in helping them come out...



joswitch, if you had a friend who was very attracted to a woman who was of a different race, and he mentioned to you that he wanted to ask her out but was so concerned about what his family would think or what his other friends would think or what people who saw him out with her would think .. what would your advise to this friend be? How about if it was an acquaintance, someone that you had little emotionally vested in? Would your advise be any different?

For me, the underlying assumption, whether it is spoken or left sitting, like the proverbial elephant in the room, is an important one. If the friend is ashamed of dating a woman of color ... does that make him, at least in part, a bigot? Is he contributing to the problem? And what does it say about his character, that he would allow other people to influence the choices that he makes (or doesn't make)? How would that woman feel, if she began a relationship with him, only to later discover that her race was a huge issue to him? 

To me, removing race and substituting fat is, in this situation, interchangeable ... in that in both situations, the problem isn't so much society as it is the person who allows societal pressure (real or imagined, and in most cases, far more imagined than real) to cripple him emotionally. He is then a part of the problem.


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## frankman (Sep 9, 2009)

joswitch said:


> Yeaaaah... as you say, you're no therapist.... and I'm not either... but I'm pretty sure saying "just grow up" ain't gonna be much help in getting more folks out of the closet... but as you say, you're not interested in helping them come out...



Nobody should be. If they want to be secretive and miserable, that's their choice. I'm not the best at guessing what other people feel, so I might be wrong on all levels here, but if a person digs fat people but is embarrassed to be seen with them in public, they need to take a long hard look at their life and prioritize. If you think that what others think of your choice in men/women is more important than actually being with a person you're attracted to, that's okay by me. BUT: don't bitch about it, don't expect empathy/sympathy, and most of all _don't date_, because that's just incredibly unfair for the other person. 
So whether you call it prioritizing or growing up, closeted FAs need to do so.

ON a slightly related note: what's with the sympathy for FAs in the first place? It's not like it's really challenging every day. Challenges for actual fat people I understand, but we FAs are far from having to sew stars on our clothes. So you get some jokes from people; it's not like you get picked last at job interviews. In short, other than actually having a fat SO you don't see anything on the outside. We're normal people, not deserving of any more credit than people who like, for instance, redheads.


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## Rowan (Sep 9, 2009)

frankman said:


> Nobody should be. If they want to be secretive and miserable, that's their choice. I'm not the best at guessing what other people feel, so I might be wrong on all levels here, but if a person digs fat people but is embarrassed to be seen with them in public, they need to take a long hard look at their life and prioritize. If you think that what others think of your choice in men/women is more important than actually being with a person you're attracted to, that's okay by me. BUT: don't bitch about it, don't expect empathy/sympathy, and most of all _don't date_, because that's just incredibly unfair for the other person.
> So whether you call it prioritizing or growing up, closeted FAs need to do so.
> 
> ON a slightly related note: what's with the sympathy for FAs in the first place? It's not like it's really challenging every day. Challenges for actual fat people I understand, but we FAs are far from having to sew stars on our clothes. So you get some jokes from people; it's not like you get picked last at job interviews. In short, other than actually having a fat SO you don't see anything on the outside. We're normal people, not deserving of any more credit than people who like, for instance, *redheads.*




Hey now...watch it! lol j/k


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## frankman (Sep 9, 2009)

Rowan said:


> Hey now...watch it! lol j/k



Big redheads; dubble yummy. 

I'm probably going to get ostracized for my preferences...


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## nykspree8 (Sep 9, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> You're right - he can post there. I'm betting, though, that he'll take at least some heat, even there, from other FA's who are equally impatient with the notion of coddling someone out of the closet.



Of course he'll take some heat...to me, closeted FAs are cowards and I'll never have any respect for them, and I hope any bbw who realizes they are with a closeted FA dumps them that very instant.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 9, 2009)

I don't know about anyone else but I always like to know exactly which guys think it's okay to be closeted and which guys think normally. 


Keep on posting fellas


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## Mack27 (Sep 10, 2009)

What if being an FA isn't a guy's only thing? What if he also digs other types of women, like buxom bimbo types or chain-smoking tiny bohemian beatnicks? Is he a closeted FA if he just happens to be with one of those other types at the moment? Is he a traitor sleeping with the enemy?


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## Fascinita (Sep 10, 2009)

Mack27 said:


> What if being an FA isn't a guy's only thing? What if he also digs other types of women, like buxom bimbo types or chain-smoking tiny bohemian beatnicks? Is he a closeted FA if he just happens to be with one of those other types at the moment? Is he a traitor sleeping with the enemy?



Love! Valour! Compassion!


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## Cors (Sep 10, 2009)

Mack27 said:


> What if being an FA isn't a guy's only thing? What if he also digs other types of women, like buxom bimbo types or chain-smoking tiny bohemian beatnicks? Is he a closeted FA if he just happens to be with one of those other types at the moment? Is he a traitor sleeping with the enemy?



I will only consider an FA, bisizual or not closeted if they deny their attraction to fat people.


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## frankman (Sep 10, 2009)

Mack27 said:


> What if being an FA isn't a guy's only thing? What if he also digs other types of women, like buxom bimbo types or chain-smoking tiny bohemian beatnicks? Is he a closeted FA if he just happens to be with one of those other types at the moment? Is he a traitor sleeping with the enemy?



Not per se. I've dated my fair share of slim girls. I just never made a secret of the fact that I also like big chicks. There's a difference between dating slim girls and selling out big girls. And the "Enemy"? Come on now...

I absolutely love your description of two other types of women. It's always either one of three, eh?


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## Cors (Sep 10, 2009)

frankman said:


> I absolutely love your description of two other types of women. It's always either one of three, eh?



Mmmm yes, gotta love the stereotypes..


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## mergirl (Sep 10, 2009)

Cors said:


> Mmmm yes, gotta love the stereotypes..


I know!!... and its sad because i always wanted to be a beatnick but my breasts are just too big. Oh well better get back to being a chain smoking Bimbo then..


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## stldpn (Sep 10, 2009)

frankman said:


> ON a slightly related note: what's with the sympathy for FAs in the first place? It's not like it's really challenging every day. Challenges for actual fat people I understand, but we FAs are far from having to sew stars on our clothes. So you get some jokes from people; it's not like you get picked last at job interviews. In short, other than actually having a fat SO you don't see anything on the outside. We're normal people, not deserving of any more credit than people who like, for instance, redheads.



Oy this all stemmed from me stating an honest simple opinion that as far as FA's go if you're a skinny American Eagle looking FA you're more likely to listen to some shite about your preferences from friends... It was literally a throw out comment unaffirmed by anything other than my own observations. 

I'm a fat boy. I've only seen the ribbings, the stares and the sarcastic comments third person. But the amount of self control it takes not to react to that garbage and more so to affirm your affections to your partner during is not something that everyone has to muster just so they can be in public. People, friends family don't bother me or question me in an overt manner no matter who happens to be on my arm. Therefore sympathy. 

Apparently though there is some sort of ban on being sensitive to the pressures that other's face. I don't advocate being closeted. But given that I work in the medical field and up until last week I put on a suit and tie every day out of necessity. Since, in the real world( the one where they hand out checks and promotions) people are petty and success is based on soft skills and perception not hard skills and a sweet disposition. Can you have it all, sure, but you can't expect other people to play into you sense of fairness.

Tracyjo has been screaming neutered closet queen ever since. Where fore I am now apparently an official troublemaker.


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 10, 2009)

stldpn said:


> Oy this all stemmed from me stating an honest simple opinion that as far as FA's go *if you're a skinny American Eagle looking FA you're more likely to listen to some shite about your preferences from friends.*.. It was literally a throw out comment unaffirmed by anything other than my own observations.
> 
> I'm a fat boy. I've only seen the ribbings, the stares and the sarcastic comments third person. But the amount of self control it takes not to react to that garbage and more so to affirm your affections to your partner during is not something that everyone has to muster just so they can be in public. *People, friends family don't bother me or question me in an overt manner no matter who happens to be on my arm. Therefore sympathy.*
> 
> Apparently though there is some sort of ban on being sensitive to the pressures that other's face. I don't advocate being closeted. But given that I work in the medical field and up until last week I put on a suit and tie every day out of necessity. Since, in the real world( the one where they hand out checks and promotions) people are petty and success is based on soft skills and perception not hard skills and a sweet disposition. Can you have it all, sure, but you can't expect other people to play into you sense of fairness.



This post whispers to me with the subtle yet unmistakable aroma of fat loathing. Can you understand how (perhaps very unconsciously) condescending it is to assume that, because you're a fat guy yourself, nobody questions "who happens to be" on your arm? Do you really think that people who see you with a fat girl are going to think, "Oh, hey -- that makes sense! A fat guy with a fat girl! Well, they deserve each other coz everyone knows ... nobody likes teh fat except for teh other fatties!" YOU may think that. It doesn't mean that the rest of the world does. I doubt very much that "society" gives you, your Abercrombie & Fitch buddies, me, or anyone else not within their respective family/social circles much thought at all. 

The few who do give your friends a hard time, or who do think that you can't "do better" than <gasp> a _fat girl_ ... who the fuck cares? My personal philosophy: If you can't undermine my livelihood, if you can't harm me in any meaningful way, and if you aren't a friend/family member ... what you think of my lifestyle, my choices, my preferences is ... rather less important to me in the scheme of things than, say, what my manicurist thinks of my hangnail. 



> Tracyjo has been screaming neutered closet queen ever since. Where fore I am now apparently an official troublemaker.



It is true that I have no patience for your "sympathy" for closet cases, although you did clarify and I assume that you are not one yourself. I wouldn't call you a "queen" under any circumstance, nor imply as such, because that's subscribing to a stereotype, and I'm not comfortable with that (are you?). And I doubt very much that ANYONE thinks that you are a troublemaker. 

Finally, I wouldn't assume neutered, either. That would assume that your friends (you know, those afore-mentioned A&F models who cower at the thought of others judging their dates' physical appearance) HAD A PAIR to begin with.


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## frankman (Sep 10, 2009)

stldpn said:


> [...]as far as FA's go if you're a skinny American Eagle looking FA you're more likely to listen to some shite about your preferences from friends...[...]



This is silly.



stldpn said:


> Apparently though there is some sort of ban on being sensitive to the pressures that other's face.



This is untrue.



stldpn said:


> But given that I work in the medical field and up until last week I put on a suit and tie every day out of necessity.



This is a nonsequitur.



stldpn said:


> but you can't expect other people to play into you sense of fairness.



And this is what's wrong with the world.



stldpn said:


> Tracyjo has been screaming neutered closet queen ever since. Where fore I am now apparently an official troublemaker.



Aaaaaand that brings us back to silly...


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## joswitch (Sep 10, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> joswitch, if you had a friend who was very attracted to a woman who was of a different race, and he mentioned to you that he wanted to ask her out but was so concerned about what his family would think or what his other friends would think or what people who saw him out with her would think .. what would your advise to this friend be? How about if it was an acquaintance, someone that you had little emotionally vested in? Would your advise be any different?



Probably an encouraging "you can do it / be strong" pep talk type of thing... equivalent to "grow up" but y'know more "how to" constructive... Advice probably similar in either case... how long I would spend on giving it would vary (friend more, acquaintance less)



> For me, the underlying assumption, whether it is spoken or left sitting, like the proverbial elephant in the room, is an important one. If the friend is ashamed of dating a woman of color ... does that make him, at least in part, a bigot? Is he contributing to the problem? And what does it say about his character, that he would allow other people to influence the choices that he makes (or doesn't make)? How would that woman feel, if she began a relationship with him, only to later discover that her race was a huge issue to him?
> 
> To me, removing race and substituting fat is, in this situation, interchangeable ... in that in both situations, the problem isn't so much society as it is the person who allows societal pressure (real or imagined, and in most cases, far more imagined than real) to cripple him emotionally. He is then a part of the problem.



Yeah if you internalise teh hate then you function as part of the problem... But y'know if your underlying nature is loving, then maybe a little support / constructive critique can help overcome that... I think it varies on the person and their underlying character as to what might help them best to "come out".... some people might just need a kick up the ass / others might need to know a brother got their back... others might be hopeless cases...One size =/= fit all.


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## joswitch (Sep 10, 2009)

frankman said:


> Big redheads; dubble yummy.
> 
> I'm probably going to get ostracized for my preferences...



Hey, we can form a club! much love for the big redheads!


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## joswitch (Sep 10, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I don't know about anyone else but I always like to know exactly which guys think it's okay to be closeted and which guys think normally.
> 
> 
> Keep on posting fellas



We're all agreed closeted = not good.

We're arguing as to whether the closet cases should be encouraged to come out -
Or, y'know, just be *shamed* for being closet and get given a bollocking... 
See: "cowards", "grow a pair!", "grow up" etc.

I'm leaning towards constructive critique to help the closet cases come "out".... That is all.

btw I'm "out" have been for yeeeeeeaaaaaaars. So


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## nykspree8 (Sep 10, 2009)

I've always been out about my preference to bbws so it's really hard for me to understand why someone would be ashamed or embarrassed to be seen with a bbw. Do they not go out in public and see bbws with significant others in tow? It's not that rare, I see it all the time. Don't worry, you won't be ostracized for dating a fat chick and I'm quite sure society will forgive you.


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## katorade (Sep 10, 2009)

stldpn said:


> The option of "if" is something you will probably never know for sure in your personal situation. Theoretically sure. In practice no. It's good to have arguement, and opinion ,and belief. But since you haven't brought me a thin FA willing to say that he has never felt societal, personal or familial preasure to ignore his preference I'm gonna say we're both full of conjecture.
> 
> But, I can at least tell you I've talked to someone who hasn't experienced overwhelming support of his "preference." And the fact that he can't expect support or respect for his choices makes me feel bad for him.



Well here's a thought...

Why not instead of offering him your sympathy, you offer him that much needed support _instead_?


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## frankman (Sep 10, 2009)

katorade said:


> Well here's a thought...
> 
> Why not instead of offering him your sympathy, you offer him that much needed support _instead_?



I always think of the aqua-bra when I read the words "much needed support". I just can't help it.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 10, 2009)

mergirl said:


> I know!!... and its sad because i always wanted to be a beatnick but my breasts are just too big. Oh well better get back to being a chain smoking Bimbo then..



Post pix o ur big bewbs plz kthx 



joswitch said:


> We're all agreed closeted = not good.
> 
> We're arguing as to whether the closet cases should be encouraged to come out -
> Or, y'know, just be *shamed* for being closet and get given a bollocking...
> ...



I was on another site for BBW a few months back. Some guy on there was messaging me. He told me how much he was attracted to BBW. I asked him if he had ever been with one. He said no. He was in his thirties. 
I didn't put him down. I didn't say boo....just quit talking to the guy.

What was he thinking? So much reminded me of a guy from CL that wrote me a long letter about how he had never been with a fat woman but he was interested in trying something new. The gist of his letter was to see if I was interested in being his sexual/social experiment. 

I'm really curious if you can understand the WHY I peacefully just blew those guys off. 

It's not my responsibility to change those people. I don't go out and tell the world it owes me something extra because I'm fat. That means, obviously, that I'm not willing to DO extra because I'm fat. This arrangement with the world....I like it. 

I don't ask for sympathy for being fat. I'm not giving sympathy to someone that says they are ashamed of my fat. 

I also don't perceive people that are secretive, manipulative users (this applies to any kind of people....not just FAs) to be "misunderstood" or the ones that deserve compassion. If they are ashamed to be with a fat person, then don't date one. I don't give a shit if a guy dates fat chicks when he wants a skinny one....I don't care if a guy dates skinny chicks when he wants a fat one. Why should I?


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## stldpn (Sep 11, 2009)

Non sequitur? How so? If you can't cut and wash your hair and put on a suit no one is going to let you practice medicine or be seen by patients. Would you trust a guy wearing torn sweatpants and a wifebeater to scrub in with a doctor and monitor your airway? If so you might want to try going to aruba and getting your next operation done in someone's living room. It's too bad I've not yet figured out the private mailer on this... coz well. It would just be more appropriate in this case.


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## Carrie (Sep 11, 2009)

frankman said:


> Big redheads; dubble yummy.





joswitch said:


> Hey, we can form a club! much love for the big redheads!


And with two small posts, this thread has now received my full endorsement.


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## stldpn (Sep 11, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> This post whispers to me with the subtle yet unmistakable aroma of fat loathing. Can you understand how (perhaps very unconsciously) condescending it is to assume that, because you're a fat guy yourself, nobody questions "who happens to be" on your arm? Do you really think that people who see you with a fat girl are going to think, "Oh, hey -- that makes sense! A fat guy with a fat girl! Well, they deserve each other coz everyone knows ... nobody likes teh fat except for teh other fatties!" YOU may think that. It doesn't mean that the rest of the world does. I doubt very much that "society" gives you, your Abercrombie & Fitch buddies, me, or anyone else not within their respective family/social circles much thought at all. .



Actually you know if you read rather than attacked i would have been more than happy to explain to you my distaste for the common notion that fat people "deserve" each other or "belong together". Mostly because I've found that I don't always have something in common with them outside of a sharded love for food. I've likened it more than once to hooking two individuals up because they both have blue eyes or big feet. Physical similarity does not equate a good match. Well, given that society and it's prescribed culture values and beliefs are most easily demonstrated to me through the actions and reactions that I observe among my peer groups. I'd say that society and it's sense of fairness and reasoning do in fact leave their mark on anyone who does not hibernate in a cave. 

What you refer to as fat loathing other people might call self interest, and in fact I have been referring all along to the fact that guys take shit from their friends. That's just part of being a guy fat or thin. The fact that it's acceptable and no doubt considered somehow credible for a guy to ask his thin buddy why he's dating a chub doesn't make it any easier on the guy being asked.



TraciJo67 said:


> The few who do give your friends a hard time, or who do think that you can't "do better" than <gasp> a _fat girl_ ... who the fuck cares? My personal philosophy: If you can't undermine my livelihood, if you can't harm me in any meaningful way, and if you aren't a friend/family member ... what you think of my lifestyle, my choices, my preferences is ... rather less important to me in the scheme of things than, say, what my manicurist thinks of my hangnail.



The whole of the matter is that you are still speaking to how you feel about the issue correct? I've never declared your opinion invalid. But you've repeatedly put it out there that anyone who thinks differently is a "doo doo" head. I'm just asking for something constructive. One admission that maybe neither one of us knows exactly what it's like to walk in somebody else's shoes. That maybe judgement is better passed on a case by case basis rather than with a rubber stamp. 



TraciJo67 said:


> It is true that I have no patience for your "sympathy" for closet cases, although you did clarify and I assume that you are not one yourself. I wouldn't call you a "queen" under any circumstance, nor imply as such, because that's subscribing to a stereotype, and I'm not comfortable with that (are you?). And I doubt very much that ANYONE thinks that you are a troublemaker. .



I'm more comfortable with the term queen than you are for a lot of reasons most of them are better for private reading rather than public. You implied that I was simply stirring the pot which to certain degree I am. But people tend to illicit the bits of me that are trollish by nature when they read one post and make all of the assumptions you have about who I am and what my situation is. 



TraciJo67 said:


> Finally, I wouldn't assume neutered, either. That would assume that your friends (you know, those afore-mentioned A&F models who cower at the thought of others judging their dates' physical appearance) HAD A PAIR to begin with.



They're just people, mired in their own veiws and perceptions, but aren't we all?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQgfgB-vgT0


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## stldpn (Sep 11, 2009)

katorade said:


> Well here's a thought...
> 
> Why not instead of offering him your sympathy, you offer him that much needed support _instead_?



He's my brother and since in reality we are two adults who actively refer to a familial feelin even though we aren't related by blood. The fact that he comes to my house eats my food and passes out on the couch let's me know that I'm supportive enough.


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## nykspree8 (Sep 11, 2009)

stldpn said:


> But, I can at least tell you I've talked to someone who hasn't experienced overwhelming support of his "preference." And the fact that he can't expect support or respect for his choices makes me feel bad for him.



Who can he not expect support from; his friends and family? And I'm also thinking...support? Who the fuck needs support on what you're dating preferences are? Just go out and date who you want. If someone doesn't like it, oh well. Why should anyone care what other people think? Again, that's just me though and I've always thought... "I like fat chicks, if you don't like it, tough shit, I can't do anything about it".


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## joswitch (Sep 11, 2009)

GEF - I totally get you... I have zero problem with your "peacefully blowing off" whoever for whatever reason.. (*snerk* ..sorry.. double entendre.. So childish i know) and I see why you binned those fellas.. . I wasn't really thinking about liars... I was thinking of some dude saying to me "i wanna date this cute fat chick but my family's gonna give me so much shit.." and me giving a little supportive advice to maybe get the dude to step up and come out. That's all... And no it's not your job to do that.. I tend to think along the lines that more out FAs may>just a little bit nicer world for BBWs>good thing.. I'm up for putting in a little advice time to that end... If I run across someone who asks for such..


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## stldpn (Sep 11, 2009)

nykspree8 said:


> Who can he not expect support from; his friends and family? And I'm also thinking...support? Who the fuck needs support on what you're dating preferences are? Just go out and date who you want. If someone doesn't like it, oh well. Why should anyone care what other people think? Again, that's just me though and I've always thought... "I like fat chicks, if you don't like it, tough shit, I can't do anything about it".



Family can be the best and worst things in our lives. Many people are under the mistaken impression that friends and family are obligated to support you in your decisions, some people are simply unable to support a decision they don't understand. Doesn't make them bad people doesn't mean they don't love or value you. My family is less than traditional unless you account for the particular Irish Catholic traditions of crazy. 

Everyone needs support, if you weren't in some fashion seeking it I doubt you would have made your way to the discussion boards. We all look for a sense of community and acceptance it's hardwired and reinforced by PBS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_yohVlVbEA


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## stldpn (Sep 11, 2009)

nykspree8 said:


> Who can he not expect support from; his friends and family? And I'm also thinking...support? Who the fuck needs support on what you're dating preferences are? Just go out and date who you want. If someone doesn't like it, oh well. Why should anyone care what other people think? Again, that's just me though and I've always thought... "I like fat chicks, if you don't like it, tough shit, I can't do anything about it".



Family can be the best and worst things in our lives. Many people are under the mistaken impression that friends and family are obligated to support you in your decisions, some people are simply unable to support a decision they don't understand. Doesn't make them bad people doesn't mean they don't love or value you. My family is less than traditional unless you account for the particular Irish Catholic traditions of crazy. 

Everyone needs support, if you weren't in some fashion seeking it I doubt you would have made your way to the discussion boards. We all look for a sense of community and acceptance it's hardwired and reinforced by PBS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_yohVlVbEA


----------



## stldpn (Sep 11, 2009)

nykspree8 said:


> Who can he not expect support from; his friends and family? And I'm also thinking...support? Who the fuck needs support on what you're dating preferences are? Just go out and date who you want. If someone doesn't like it, oh well. Why should anyone care what other people think? Again, that's just me though and I've always thought... "I like fat chicks, if you don't like it, tough shit, I can't do anything about it".



Family can be the best and worst things in our lives. Many people are under the mistaken impression that friends and family are obligated to support you in your decisions, some people are simply unable to support a decision they don't understand. Doesn't make them bad people doesn't mean they don't love or value you. My family is less than traditional unless you account for the particular Irish Catholic traditions of crazy. 

Everyone needs support, if you weren't in some fashion seeking it I doubt you would have made your way to the discussion boards. We all look for a sense of community and acceptance it's hardwired and reinforced by PBS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_yohVlVbEA


----------



## stldpn (Sep 11, 2009)

nykspree8 said:


> Who can he not expect support from; his friends and family? And I'm also thinking...support? Who the fuck needs support on what you're dating preferences are? Just go out and date who you want. If someone doesn't like it, oh well. Why should anyone care what other people think? Again, that's just me though and I've always thought... "I like fat chicks, if you don't like it, tough shit, I can't do anything about it".



Family can be the best and worst things in our lives. Many people are under the mistaken impression that friends and family are obligated to support you in your decisions, some people are simply unable to support a decision they don't understand. Doesn't make them bad people doesn't mean they don't love or value you. My family is less than traditional unless you account for the particular Irish Catholic traditions of crazy. 

Everyone needs support, if you weren't in some fashion seeking it I doubt you would have made your way to the discussion boards. We all look for a sense of community and acceptance it's hardwired and reinforced by PBS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_yohVlVbEA


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## frankman (Sep 11, 2009)

stldpn said:


> [...] It's too bad I've not yet figured out the private mailer on this... coz well. It would just be more appropriate in this case.



Click on my screen name, dropdown menu appears, click [send private message], type "Frank, you're an asshole. And I know my shit, cause I'm a doctor" and click send.

That's the private mailing system in short. You can use this one as a template: the only thing you'll ever have to change is the name.


Furthermore, if a guy in torn sweatpants wants to monitor my airway, all he has to do is ask. He could play cards with the alliterative buxom blonde bimbo monitoring my heart rate and the chain-smoking tiny bohemian beatnick in charge of my IV.


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## cheekyjez (Sep 11, 2009)

stldpn said:


> What you refer to as fat loathing other people might call self interest, and in fact I have been referring all along to the fact that guys take shit from their friends. That's just part of being a guy fat or thin. The fact that it's acceptable and no doubt considered somehow credible for a guy to ask his thin buddy why he's dating a chub doesn't make it any easier on the guy being asked.



I dunno, I kind of feel that if one can't use the simple answer "because she's hot, why are you dating your right hand?" then one probably don't respect one's partner enough to be worthy of dating her.


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## nykspree8 (Sep 12, 2009)

stldpn said:


> Everyone needs support, if you weren't in some fashion seeking it I doubt you would have made your way to the discussion boards. We all look for a sense of community and acceptance it's hardwired and reinforced by PBS.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_yohVlVbEA



I've been aware of dimensions for quite some time, but never really saw the point of browsing or posting on the forums until a few months ago when I happened to be bored; it was not because I was looking for acceptance or support. 

My friends and family have never seen me with a skinny chick, or anything remotely close to it around my arms. They know if I bring a girl along, it's gonna be fat chick, always. From my first bbw gf, which was before I even knew what a FA was, I have always brought her around anywhere I went. I was never ashamed of my gf being fat, why should I be, that's what I'm fucking attracted to! That confidence I guess is what made my friends and family accept me being a FA. You either accept me for what I am, or keep it moving. I don't have time to worry about what other people think of me or the hot fatty around my arms


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## stldpn (Sep 13, 2009)

cheekyjez said:


> I dunno, I kind of feel that if one can't use the simple answer "because she's hot, why are you dating your right hand?" then one probably don't respect one's partner enough to be worthy of dating her.



How is this about respect for one's partner? I know enough about other men to know that just because he has no issue with being seen in public with a girl doesn't mean he has respect for her. But I suppose it's more flattering for a woman to be blatantly objectified. 

I get a little lost. I'd like for somebody to explain to me why a thin FA has no right to feel offended and a little hurt by a lack of sensitivity toward his preferences. Preferably someone who doesn't like to use the phrase "man up."

Granted it's an FA issue therefore it doesn't really belong here. I simply fail to understand how people feel they have a right to veto and marginalize someone's feelings.


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## stldpn (Sep 13, 2009)

nykspree8 said:


> I've been aware of dimensions for quite some time, but never really saw the point of browsing or posting on the forums until a few months ago when I happened to be bored; it was not because I was looking for acceptance or support.
> 
> My friends and family have never seen me with a skinny chick, or anything remotely close to it around my arms. They know if I bring a girl along, it's gonna be fat chick, always. From my first bbw gf, which was before I even knew what a FA was, I have always brought her around anywhere I went. I was never ashamed of my gf being fat, why should I be, that's what I'm fucking attracted to! That confidence I guess is what made my friends and family accept me being a FA. You either accept me for what I am, or keep it moving. I don't have time to worry about what other people think of me or the hot fatty around my arms



Ok fine you're looking for a gf... I'm sure if you keep telling me I'm a louse for thinking BBW's aren't the only ones that have it rough in the world you'll win some followers. These ladies eat that crap up.


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## nykspree8 (Sep 13, 2009)

stldpn said:


> Ok fine you're looking for a gf... I'm sure if you keep telling me I'm a louse for thinking BBW's aren't the only ones that have it rough in the world you'll win some followers. These ladies eat that crap up.



Eh? I'm just trying to say your friend needs to stop worrying about what other people think of him and his preferences; you can't please everyone in the world so just worry about yourself when it comes to these kind of things, imho.


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## mossystate (Sep 13, 2009)

stldpn said:


> These ladies eat that crap up.



LOL.........oh, you are being serious.


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## nykspree8 (Sep 14, 2009)

mossystate said:


> LOL.........oh, you are being serious.



How come you let him off that easy >:O


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## katorade (Sep 14, 2009)

nykspree8 said:


> How come you let him off that easy >:O



Sometimes we just know when saving our breath is a better idea. Something something falling on deaf ears. Also, it's fairly easy to recognize when people make themselves sound worse than we ever could.


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## nykspree8 (Sep 14, 2009)

katorade said:


> Sometimes we just know when saving our breath is a better idea. Something something falling on deaf ears. Also, it's fairly easy to recognize when people make themselves sound worse than we ever could.



k, good point


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 14, 2009)

Yeah, us ladies love it when a guy is considerate of our feelings. We also like it when that same guy doesn't like kissing his friend's, and stranger's, asses......I can see why someone would say that is wrong though.....*shrugs*


Oh and I'm going to do.......errrrrrrrr rep Nykspree when I have it


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## stldpn (Sep 17, 2009)

nykspree8 said:


> Eh? I'm just trying to say your friend needs to stop worrying about what other people think of him and his preferences; you can't please everyone in the world so just worry about yourself when it comes to these kind of things, imho.



We are programmed to do a lot of things for social acceptance and generally we are well rewarded with external praise/rewards when we bow into the programming... I don't care what anyone says... we're still primates we still want to be in a social group. Asking someone to unravel that much hardwiring without a second thought is illogical.


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## stldpn (Sep 17, 2009)

mossystate said:


> LOL.........oh, you are being serious.



respectfully yes... you don't think I've never heard from a bbw about how easy I've got it... how I've got no right to complain about my own weight issues (clothes, work, social, sexual)... it may not be you personally who goes on about it but it's been my experience that far too many BBWs have a ridiculously bad habit of being blinded by their own needs for love and acceptance. 

And god forbid we admit that it's a crime that a man should not only feel sensitive to the things being said about his gf but feel conflicted by his need to defend her honor publicly.


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## mossystate (Sep 17, 2009)

stldpn said:


> respectfully yes... you don't think I've never heard from a bbw about how easy I've got it... how I've got no right to complain about my own weight issues (clothes, work, social, sexual)... it may not be you personally who goes on about it but it's been my experience that far too many BBWs have a ridiculously bad habit of being blinded by their own needs for love and acceptance.
> 
> And god forbid we admit that it's a crime that a man should not only feel sensitive to the things being said about his gf but feel conflicted by his need to defend her honor publicly.



I don't think anybody should be automatically dismissed for feeling. Experiences are very personal.

You wanted to lash out at women by saying that the ladies eat the shit of men who ' say the right thing '. Are there women like that...yes. Are there men like that...yes. Just saying that you probably should be more careful tossing that attitude about, if you do not know that is what " these ladies " are doing. 

Yeah, I get you are upset and you are lashing out. Have to say...that is not going to attract the most healthy of women. Wait, perhaps your feelings are simply a " ridiculously bad habit ".


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## joswitch (Sep 17, 2009)

mossystate said:


> I don't think anybody should be automatically dismissed for feeling. Experiences are very personal.
> 
> You wanted to lash out at women by saying that the ladies eat the shit of men who ' say the right thing '. Are there women like that...yes. Are there men like that...yes. Just saying that you probably should be more careful tossing that attitude about, if you do not know that is what " these ladies " are doing.
> 
> Yeah, I get you are upset and you are lashing out. Have to say...that is not going to attract the most healthy of women. Wait, perhaps your feelings are simply a " ridiculously bad habit ".



Ooooh! That's gonna sting! 

This thread feels a bit like those faux giantess videos where some chick in big ole boots steps on some ickle action figure dude...


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## mossystate (Sep 17, 2009)

joswitch said:


> Ooooh! That's gonna sting!
> 
> This thread feels a bit like those faux giantess videos where some chick in big ole boots steps on some ickle action figure dude...



Ummmmm....or....it is just a person who happens to be a woman, responding to an unfair comment made by a person who just happens to be man.

As for the giantess comment....seems this dude knows how to stand up for what he believes. I hope you are not so afraid of women who do the same. Yeah. Eeeeek, indeed.


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## nykspree8 (Sep 17, 2009)

stldpn said:


> We are programmed to do a lot of things for social acceptance and generally we are well rewarded with external praise/rewards when we bow into the programming... I don't care what anyone says... we're still primates we still want to be in a social group. Asking someone to unravel that much hardwiring without a second thought is illogical.



Ok, then your friend can date an Abercrombie & Fitch chick and fit in, is it that difficult a decision??? Date the fattie you're sexually attracted to and be ridiculed by your douche bag friends, or date the skinny chick who you could care less if she was naked or wearing 10 winter coats to bed and get high fives from the fellas


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 17, 2009)

nykspree8 said:


> Ok, then your friend can date an Abercrombie & Fitch chick and fit in, is it that difficult a decision??? Date the fattie you're sexually attracted to and be ridiculed by your douche bag friends, or date the skinny chick who you could care less if she was naked or wearing 10 winter coats to bed and get high fives from the fellas




Funny how this simple layout seems to elude so many.......


Oh wait....they can't see past the feeling sorry for themselves and feelings of entitlement to justify whatever it is they want to do to someone else. 

Please your friends or please your dick. Can't have your cake and eat it, too without turning yourself into an asshole.


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## Inhibited (Sep 17, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Funny how this simple layout seems to elude so many.......
> 
> 
> Oh wait....they can't see past the feeling sorry for themselves and feelings of entitlement to justify whatever it is they want to do to someone else.
> ...



Wow simple and to the point, well said, you have a way with words.


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## nykspree8 (Sep 17, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Please your friends or please your dick. Can't have your cake and eat it, too without turning yourself into an asshole.



LOL, /rep! ;P


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## EllorionsDarlingAngel (Sep 18, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Please your friends or please your dick. Can't have your cake and eat it, too without turning yourself into an asshole.


I so wanted to rep you for that, but I can't!!
LMAO that was so freaking funny! Glad I didn't have a sip of my water when I was reading that! It would have been all over the computer..LOL...


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## BothGunsBlazing (Sep 18, 2009)

I used to like skinny chicks but ever since I became an FA, I don't date skinny chicks anymore. 

What gives?  This was never a problem for me before and I don't know what to do about it.


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## Rowan (Sep 18, 2009)

I dont know why this thread continues considering we wont be seeing the OP again until around August of next year. That's her pattern.


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## stldpn (Sep 18, 2009)

mossystate said:


> I don't think anybody should be automatically dismissed for feeling. Experiences are very personal.
> 
> You wanted to lash out at women by saying that the ladies eat the shit of men who ' say the right thing '. Are there women like that...yes. Are there men like that...yes. Just saying that you probably should be more careful tossing that attitude about, if you do not know that is what " these ladies " are doing.
> 
> Yeah, I get you are upset and you are lashing out. Have to say...that is not going to attract the most healthy of women. Wait, perhaps your feelings are simply a " ridiculously bad habit ".



Lashing out? Nah I think it's more like repaying the favor... So far in response to one single line of text I've gotten plenty of unpleasant personal aspersions by people who are either reading far too much into my text or aren't reading much of it all I can't decide which.. 

At some point everyone decided that I was putting my stamp of approval on closeted/DL skinny FAs or that I was in fact one myself. And that has basically led to a lot of posting about how I'm a castrated, self loathing, fat hating, miserable little fella. 

That said I stand by my original statement. I do feel bad for my little FA brother who loves his gf and doesn't like to hear her being disparaged by anyone. I don't think he'd feel so isolated about it if some of the people closest to him including his gf weren't assuming that his life is easy and his problems are beneath consideration for validity. 

That said, I decided to join in on the fun, read a little too much in and take a guess concerning motive too. Basically because, well he keeps posting up like he wants my attention then bam I give him a little and his response looks a little bit like tilting at windmills to me. I figured he was out to win his chubby Dulcinea.

As far as women are concerned, fat or thin, I think you're all a bit more inclined toward pity parties than guys are. I mean truthfully it's been proven statistically in psychiatric journals women cry 4 times more often than men do. Why? no one's sure. But I do know that my role in the hetero relationship generally means I have to be patient for a lot of frustratingly long crying episodes that I'm not allowed to relate to. Is it ok? Yeah because if i'll listen to her cry i really do love her. Does it frustrate me ? absolutely. 

I'm here to have fun. I hate people who take this crap so seriously that no one else is allowed to opine in a way that conflicts .


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## nykspree8 (Sep 18, 2009)

Rowan said:


> I dont know why this thread continues considering we wont be seeing the OP again until around August of next year. That's her pattern.



Maybe by then she'll be skinny again


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## mossystate (Sep 18, 2009)

stldpn said:


> > As far as women are concerned, fat or thin, I think you're all a bit more inclined toward pity parties than guys are. I mean truthfully it's been proven statistically in psychiatric journals women cry 4 times more often than men do. Why? no one's sure. But I do know that my role in the hetero relationship generally means I have to be patient for a lot of frustratingly long crying episodes that I'm not allowed to relate to. Is it ok? Yeah because if i'll listen to her cry i really do love her. Does it frustrate me ? absolutely.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## joswitch (Sep 19, 2009)

@mossy - u so serious Eyore!  I was sharing a silly riff from my auto-visual imagination.. i.e. a joke..


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## mossystate (Sep 19, 2009)

@ jos...i hv xpeerenced u n pm, gufee......in other words...bs...I knew exactly what you were doing... ;-)


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## joswitch (Sep 20, 2009)

@mossy - ahahaha! You haven't ever experienced anything of "me" - all you can see is your preconceptions... The PM exchange of which you speak was case in point, and was also when I twigged that yours is a one-note song..  ... Oh and btw- you've started referring to yourself in the 3rd person - you're in terrible danger of disappearing right up your own arse!  Don't let me slow you down!


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 20, 2009)

I'm sick of Monique taking all the male attention in this thread.......


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## mossystate (Sep 20, 2009)

jos...please grow some.................hair...so I can muss it...:happy:


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## stldpn (Sep 21, 2009)

mossystate said:


> stldpn said:
> 
> 
> > The Dims Journal Of Mossy Reactions has said that I laugh at people like you, 33.4 times more than most people.
> ...


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 21, 2009)

stldpn said:


> mossystate said:
> 
> 
> > The fact that I attempt to sympathize with the situation, ride it out, deal with the fact that I'm being demonized because I don't have ovaries. Well that may make me a touch more rational a few days out of the month. And you know as much as some people abhor the things that get traditionally identified as masculine traits like I dunno pragmatism and making all of our decisions based on cold hard facts, it's nothing more than another way of looking at things that has less to do with the way we feel.
> ...


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## stldpn (Sep 21, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> stldpn said:
> 
> 
> > stldpn, I think you're being demonized as of ... this point ... right now: 2:53 p.m., CST.
> ...


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 21, 2009)

stldpn said:


> TraciJo67 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh no I get it... you guys are being cold and hard and rational when you cry because we're out of choc milk and funions
> ...


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## mossystate (Sep 21, 2009)

stldpn said:


> > I'm actually pretty content with what I have... but yeah umm... I never said emotions empathy sympathy... whatever were bad... i said women cry more... and thus are a little more prone to getting stewed in their own point of veiw.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Paquito (Sep 21, 2009)

stldpn said:


> Oh no I get it... you guys are being cold and hard and rational when you cry because we're out of choc milk and funions



Well I didn't expect that coming from a man that, what was it? Dressed in a shirt and pants everyday for work, or whatever analogy was used that had zero to with what was being discussed. Tsk tsk, I expected that from a bohemian or buxom man in a wife beater and sweatpants, or however that went.

I don't see how someone with a preference would ever need sympathy. "Oh gee, look at that poor man that likes brunettes. Surrounded by blondes. How sad, how can he live his life properly?" Closeted FAs need to stay in their little closet of shame until they revamp their mindset, easy as that.

Then again, I'm just a fat FA, so it's not like anyone would care if I dated a fat girl, right?


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 21, 2009)

free2beme04 said:


> Well I didn't expect that coming from a man that, what was it? Dressed in a shirt and pants everyday for work, or whatever analogy was used that had zero to with what was being discussed. Tsk tsk, I expected that from a bohemian or buxom man in a wife beater and sweatpants, or however that went.
> 
> I don't see how someone with a preference would ever need sympathy. "Oh gee, look at that poor man that likes brunettes. Surrounded by blondes. How sad, how can he live his life properly?" Closeted FAs need to stay in their little closet of shame until they revamp their mindset, easy as that.
> 
> Then again, I'm just a fat FA, so it's not like anyone would care if I dated a fat girl, right?



You've got the best darn cheesecake, too. Much better than chocolate milk and funyons any day of the week  

Let's quit worrying about stupiddik or whatever his handle is....I'm sure he's not getting too many dates...closeted or otherwise with that attitude.


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## joswitch (Sep 21, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You've got the best darn cheesecake, too. Much better than chocolate milk and funyons any day of the week
> 
> Let's quit worrying about stupiddik or whatever his handle is....I'm sure he's not getting too many dates...closeted or otherwise with that attitude.



WOW! This thread caught fire, exploded and fell down a mountainside!
Awesome carnage!   

All I wanna say to stlnpd ?spell? is duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude!!!!!:doh::doh::doh:


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## frankman (Sep 22, 2009)

stldpn said:


> [...]
> Just because I don't understand what it's like to have period cramps, bloating or PMS. Well that doesn't exactly make them my fault now does it?
> [...]



You probably have a lot of guy friends, perhaps exclusively. 

A word of advice: should you ever encounter a woman in real life, I think it's best for both of you if you just keep your mouth shut and smile politely.

That being said, seriously dude, kudos for making jokes about menstrual cycles on a mostly chick forum. Not since Charlie Bronson have I seen such a death wish. Anyway, when you're done reciting Eddy Murphy's Raw, perhaps you could apologize, or at least think before you make these sweeping generalizations about genders.

So yeah, think about it. Gotta go now, my uterus is itching.


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## Matt L. (Sep 22, 2009)

When I first read the title to your post, I was ready to share with you some logically reasons for the topic. After reading about you being engaged and whining because guys are no longer hitting on you I was repulsed by your insensitively. You have a man, think about all the real decent upstanding people out there who are alone for a multitude of reasons, many of which are shallow or petty. Stop the whining and pay attention to your guy, which obviously you're not.


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## Lolita13 (Sep 25, 2009)

Rowan said:


> I dont know why this thread continues considering we wont be seeing the OP again until around August of next year. That's her pattern.



Hi, im here. rude much? LOL!


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## Lolita13 (Sep 25, 2009)

Matt L. said:


> When I first read the title to your post, I was ready to share with you some logically reasons for the topic. After reading about you being engaged and whining because guys are no longer hitting on you I was repulsed by your insensitively. You have a man, think about all the real decent upstanding people out there who are alone for a multitude of reasons, many of which are shallow or petty. Stop the whining and pay attention to your guy, which obviously you're not.



Of course I pay attention to my man. I guess you didnt read my other posts in this thread, I worded the tittle wrong. i meant from everyone. Females too


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## Rowan (Sep 25, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Hi, im here. rude much? LOL!



only to trolls... do you consider yourself one?


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 26, 2009)

I want to see pictures of how fat you have gotten.......


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## Paquito (Sep 26, 2009)

Funny, I thought she'd be too busy asking how to fuck fat rolls to visit this thread again.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 26, 2009)

free2beme04 said:


> Funny, I thought she'd be too busy asking how to fuck fat rolls to visit this thread again.



THAT's sure to get youse some attentions round here, you attention whore 


POST PICS PLZ KTHX


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## Paquito (Sep 26, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> THAT's sure to get youse some attentions round here, *you attention whore *
> 
> 
> POST PICS PLZ KTHX



Guilty as charged love


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 26, 2009)

You got turned on cuz I called you a whore, didn't you? :smitten: :wubu: :kiss2:


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## Paquito (Sep 26, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You got turned on cuz I called you a whore, didn't you? :smitten: :wubu: :kiss2:



Guilty as charged love


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 26, 2009)

Now I'm all turned on by thoughts of punishing the guilty love  :wubu:


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## Paquito (Sep 26, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Now I'm all turned on by thoughts of punishing the guilty love  :wubu:



Thread officially won. Nothing to see here people, just GEF soothing my....


guilt.


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## Lolita13 (Sep 26, 2009)

Who wants pics? Im sick of skinny bitches and fat ones too. Im a fabulous person who is respecfull to those that deserve it. Im not a troll, are any of you? Just because I come from a different angle, not oo I love being fat, its so awesome how the world loves me. I admit I am struggling, I am REAL. I am SURE a lot of you FAT WOMEN dont wanna be fat, but yet are here because you want to be accepted. Then judge me for my honesty. You judge the other camp of "skinny", yet you are no better. Maybe worse as you know how hard it is to be different from what society expects a woman to look like. HMMMM


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## frankman (Sep 26, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Who wants pics? Im sick of skinny bitches and fat ones too. Im a fabulous person who is respecfull to those that deserve it. Im not a troll, are any of you? Just because I come from a different angle, not oo I love being fat, its so awesome how the world loves me. I admit I am struggling, I am REAL. I am SURE a lot of you FAT WOMEN dont wanna be fat, but yet are here because you want to be accepted. Then judge me for my honesty. You judge the other camp of "skinny", yet you are no better. Maybe worse as you know how hard it is to be different from what society expects a woman to look like. HMMMM



You're LIKE a gangster rapper WHO GETS al the stresses wrong, singing fat BITCHES, SKINNY bitches, I'm real LIKE Jenny from the BLOCK yo. WORD!

Now show ME pics OF YOUR bling. 

(and perhaps one of you spanking a troll, that'd be a real turn on.)


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## KHayes666 (Sep 26, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Who wants pics? *Im sick of skinny bitches and fat ones too.* Im a fabulous person who is respecfull to those that deserve it. Im not a troll, are any of you? Just because I come from a different angle, not oo I love being fat, its so awesome how the world loves me. I admit I am struggling, I am REAL. *I am SURE a lot of you FAT WOMEN dont wanna be fat, but yet are here because you want to be accepted.* Then judge me for my honesty. You judge the other camp of "skinny", yet you are no better. Maybe worse as you know how hard it is to be different from what society expects a woman to look like. HMMMM



I told myself to stay retired from Dimensions but when one my spies told me about this, I couldn't pass this up. As much as I don't like some of the half assed posts you've concocted such as "yeah i'm engaged but no other men look at me, ugh" and "i hate feederism, ugh" , this one actually hit the nail on the head.

The first part I bolded is true in the sense that, it doesn't matter what size a person is. A bitch is always going to be a bitch, skinny or fat it don't matter.

The second part I bolded because I have been told face to face by a few women that they would rather not be fat but are dealing with the hand they were dealt and is living life to the fullest. Not everyone WANTS to be fat the same way not everyone wants to be skinny either, however when I'm told in person and in some cases online that being fat is not something they truly want, then I'm forced to agree with you.

Congrats, the first post you've made that in some aspects I agree with......and now I will go back to Hell, see y'all around.


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## Inhibited (Sep 26, 2009)

KHayes666 said:


> I told myself to stay retired from Dimensions but when one my spies told me about this, I couldn't pass this up. As much as I don't like some of the half assed posts you've concocted such as "yeah i'm engaged but no other men look at me, ugh" and "i hate feederism, ugh" , this one actually hit the nail on the head.
> 
> The first part I bolded is true in the sense that, it doesn't matter what size a person is. A bitch is always going to be a bitch, skinny or fat it don't matter.
> 
> ...



I totally agree with you Khayes. I don't know why people are having ago at you Lolita, the original post i can see why, but you than you explained yourself. People on here are considering or have had surgery to reduce their weight, so obviously they are having trouble accepting themselves as well, and yes i know some people have the surgery for medical reasons not just to reduce weight. I haven't read all the post so maybe i missed something


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## KHayes666 (Sep 26, 2009)

Inhibited said:


> I totally agree with you Khayes. I don't know why people are having ago at you Lolita, the original post i can see why, but you than you explained yourself. People on here are considering or have had surgery to reduce their weight, so obviously they are having trouble accepting themselves as well, and yes i know some people have the surgery for medical reasons not just to reduce weight. I haven't read all the post so maybe i missed something



To be fair, people have surgery for a variety of reasons...the main being health problems.

Someone may not want to lose weight, but has to in order to live or to be healthy...and that's completely understandable. They may very well accept themselves but have to change.


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## Inhibited (Sep 26, 2009)

KHayes666 said:


> To be fair, people have surgery for a variety of reasons...the main being health problems.
> 
> Someone may not want to lose weight, but has to in order to live or to be healthy...and that's completely understandable. They may very well accept themselves but have to change.



Thats a fair point, i just generalized instead of rambling on about the different reasons. I don't care if people have surgery or not its their choice, maybe weight loss surgery is a bit to controversial and I should have thought of another example


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## Famouslastwords (Sep 26, 2009)

Rowan said:


> Its easy to lose weight if you put your mind to it, yes.



No it's fucking not.


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## frankman (Sep 26, 2009)

Famouslastwords said:


> No it's fucking not.



I think that it depends on what the expectations are. Going from fat to thin is really fucking hard. Losing a little weight is not. Going through with diets, workouts and whatnot is really hard, seeing some results in the first couple of weeks is not.


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## Famouslastwords (Sep 26, 2009)

frankman said:


> I think that it depends on what the expectations are. Going from fat to thin is really fucking hard. Losing a little weight is not. Going through with diets, workouts and whatnot is really hard, seeing some results in the first couple of weeks is not.




I don't know what you're talking about Frankman. Maybe as a thin person it's easy for you to lose weight or maybe you're overweight I don't know I've never read a post of yours that specified. But as someone who's been battling my weight my entire life (I was always slightly overweight and then grew to be really overweight after an injury), I can say that even losing a little weight is hard.

I'm trying to get down to 300 pounds, and it took every ounce of willpower I had to lose 30 pounds. So don't pretend for one second that losing weight is easy for everyone or even anyone. No matter how much. Losing weight is hard work, if losing any amount of weight was easy even if you "put your mind to it" then the unhappy fatties would eventually lose weight and there would only be happy fatties.


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## pdgujer148 (Sep 26, 2009)

Famouslastwords said:


> No it's fucking not.



I shouldn't get into this.

However, dropping 50 pounds @ 300 pounds is easy.

Dropping 50 pounds at 250 pounds is hard.

Dropping 20 pounds at 200 pounds requires heroic effort.

Gaining it all back in a couple years is as easy as another piece of pie.


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## Famouslastwords (Sep 26, 2009)

pdgujer148 said:


> I shouldn't get into this.
> 
> However, dropping 50 pounds @ 300 pounds is easy.
> 
> ...



Maybe it's per person. As I had a hard time dropping TEN pounds at 300 pounds when I was that small, and now I'm 395.

So. Psssh


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## Famouslastwords (Sep 26, 2009)

pdgujer148 said:


> I shouldn't get into this.
> 
> However, dropping 50 pounds @ 300 pounds is easy.
> 
> ...



P.S. it's a proven fact men burn fat easier than women.


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## frankman (Sep 26, 2009)

Famouslastwords said:


> I don't know what you're talking about Frankman. Maybe as a thin person it's easy for you to lose weight or maybe you're overweight I don't know I've never read a post of yours that specified. But as someone who's been battling my weight my entire life (I was always slightly overweight and then grew to be really overweight after an injury), I can say that even losing a little weight is hard.
> 
> I'm trying to get down to 300 pounds, and it took every ounce of willpower I had to lose 30 pounds. So don't pretend for one second that losing weight is easy for everyone or even anyone. No matter how much. Losing weight is hard work, if losing any amount of weight was easy even if you "put your mind to it" then the unhappy fatties would eventually lose weight and there would only be happy fatties.



264 Lbs (120 kilos). My weight.

30 pounds is a lot of weight to lose. It's the equivalent of dropping 3,5 gallons of milk. I think that's a lot.

And for the last bit of your post: going through with losing weight _is_ hard. I already said so. Just like I said that going from fat to thin is really hard.

I never said that losing weight is not hard work. It's kind of like stopping with smoking: it's life altering and affects your entire daily routine. Hard work. And it needs a certain mindset. And for some, even with the right mindset it's really difficult. But I am a firm believer that anyone can do almost anything if they put their mind to it. And those first few pounds (like 10 pounds) are not hard. For most people anyway.


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## Famouslastwords (Sep 26, 2009)

The "put their mind to it" thing was more directed toward the idea that losing weight is easy if you put your mind to it. The original idea in question here.

I too believe if anyone puts their mind to it, for long enough, they can achieve whatever they want, but that doesn't make it easy by a long shot.

Putting one's mind to it in and of itself is hard work.

I don't mean to sound like a fat hatin' fattie, because honestly, I'm not one. I just wish I was not as big. I'm sure there are a lot of women on this site who feel that way, just as there are a lot of women who are happy with themselves just as they are.


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## Lolita13 (Sep 26, 2009)

Im just trying to accept myself as I am right now. I want to be healthy. period. I want to walk and run and not be out of breath doing so. I dont want to walk with my friends and not sweat and huff and puff. I want to be active again . My weight will then fall into what it wants to be at that point. I came here for different reasons and I feel the fact that I wasnt pro fat for MYSELF . I got hated upon. I am having a hard time being fat, its getting easier as I am sick of all bitches like I said fat or skinny and they can eat my ass if they wanna talk shit about my weight gain. Oh yes, I get it from heavy people too . Amazing that someone who is fat commenting on my weight gain. A Fat women I know when I saw her last week said I guess weight watchers didnt work huh. Your bigger than ever Fucking rude, everyone is soo obsessed with my weight. I wanna sit on them . LOL . My points are it seems like a thin veil of BS here with everyone joyous to be fat. Cant we feel sexy and beautiful , but still talk about our strugles and pain. Its very real if you live outside of a computer and deal with humans on a daily basis.


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## frankman (Sep 26, 2009)

Famouslastwords said:


> The "put their mind to it" thing was more directed toward the idea that losing weight is easy if you put your mind to it. The original idea in question here.
> 
> I too believe if anyone puts their mind to it, for long enough, they can achieve whatever they want, but that doesn't make it easy by a long shot.
> 
> ...



In that case, my apologies; we're pretty much on the same page, I just misunderstood.


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## vardon_grip (Sep 26, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Im just trying to accept myself as I am right now. I want to be healthy. period. I want to walk and run and not be out of breath doing so. I dont want to walk with my friends and not sweat and huff and puff. I want to be active again . My weight will then fall into what it wants to be at that point. I came here for different reasons and I feel the fact that I wasnt pro fat for MYSELF . I got hated upon. I am having a hard time being fat, its getting easier as I am sick of all bitches like I said fat or skinny and they can eat my ass if they wanna talk shit about my weight gain. Oh yes, I get it from heavy people too . Amazing that someone who is fat commenting on my weight gain. A Fat women I know when I saw her last week said I guess weight watchers didnt work huh. Your bigger than ever Fucking rude, everyone is soo obsessed with my weight. I wanna sit on them . LOL . *My points are it seems like a thin veil of BS here with everyone joyous to be fat. Cant we feel sexy and beautiful , but still talk about our strugles and pain.* Its very real if you live outside of a computer and deal with humans on a daily basis.



I think you are right in your assessment. Do you think that the ones that are so quick to hate on others are the ones that hate themselves the most?


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## Inhibited (Sep 26, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Im just trying to accept myself as I am right now. I want to be healthy. period. I want to walk and run and not be out of breath doing so. I dont want to walk with my friends and not sweat and huff and puff. I want to be active again . My weight will then fall into what it wants to be at that point. I came here for different reasons and I feel the fact that I wasnt pro fat for MYSELF . I got hated upon. I am having a hard time being fat, its getting easier as I am sick of all bitches like I said fat or skinny and they can eat my ass if they wanna talk shit about my weight gain. Oh yes, I get it from heavy people too . Amazing that someone who is fat commenting on my weight gain. A Fat women I know when I saw her last week said I guess weight watchers didnt work huh. Your bigger than ever Fucking rude, everyone is soo obsessed with my weight. I wanna sit on them . LOL . My points are it seems like a thin veil of BS here with everyone joyous to be fat. Cant we feel sexy and beautiful , but still talk about our strugles and pain. Its very real if you live outside of a computer and deal with humans on a daily basis.



It took me years to accept myself, i went through exactly what you are going through in my teens, i wasn't until my early 20's that i gained confidence and started accepting myself. I don't know how old you are, so some might say that as you are not in your teens that you should be more mature, but i think the point that i'm trying to make is that i have had years to deal with being fat, i hope it will get easier for you as well.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 26, 2009)

Inhibited said:


> It took me years to accept myself, i went through exactly what you are going through in my teens, i wasn't until my early 20's that i gained confidence and started accepting myself. I don't know how old you are, so some might say that as you are not in your teens that you should be more mature, but i think the point that i'm trying to make is that i have had years to deal with being fat, i hope it will get easier for you as well.



I have gone through what's she's going through just recently, as well as since my teens. 

Lolita...people are ALWAYS going to smack talk you and put you down....NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO. You realize that part, right? There is no perfect place to land.....you cannot please everyone. The only person you have a snowball's chance in hell of pleasing for the most part is yourself. 
Perhaps you should start there? 
Come here from the kinship/comraderie....not for everyone to make your self image okay. There is no key here. You hold it in your own hand. 

It's nice to talk to other people with the same problems/issues as yourself. It's great to see confident women. It's wonderful to like yourself just as you are. But the struggle....it doesn't start or end here. 
Look to yourself- your own best friend. You are worth it.


If you like being more active, then be so. If you want to change your weight- up or down, then do that for YOU....not to please some man. Men will disappoint you....easily and without thought....no matter what you do if you tie your self worth up in them. 
They aren't gods or saviors....just like you cannot save anyone else. All you can do for others is offer acceptance, understanding and patience. That's also all you can expect in return.


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## cactopus (Sep 27, 2009)

Famouslastwords said:


> P.S. it's a proven fact men burn fat easier than women.



I don't know about you but I've never had a grease fire yet. My female friend on the other hand would set water on fire if she tried to boil it.


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## stldpn (Sep 27, 2009)

free2beme04 said:


> Then again, I'm just a fat FA, so it's not like anyone would care if I dated a fat girl, right?



We have all these different opinions from people who are fat. Cause god forbid you guys are so comfortable with your fat right? Did I say be uncomfortable with your own fat? 

I'm fat. So far I'm not riding a scooter and collecting an ssi check but I am fat... I'm also accepting of other people and I try to be accepting of their opinions, fears and concerns. Though quite frankly it's become increasingly apparent to me that certain people can't see past their own fat and the overwhelming self sympathy that it apparently induces and recognize that even a skinny FA who is out and proud about his preferences could possibly have feelings about the fact that he and his gf are being ridiculed. And worse yet other people might recognize those issues and think that it's wrong that they have to take the flack. 

I'm beginning to think that many of you live in a very insulated world filled with nothing but your own feelings.


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## stldpn (Sep 27, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> stldpn said:
> 
> 
> > OK, now every woman at Dims officially hates your ever-lovin' guts, stldpn
> ...


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## stldpn (Sep 27, 2009)

frankman said:


> You probably have a lot of guy friends, perhaps exclusively.
> 
> A word of advice: should you ever encounter a woman in real life, I think it's best for both of you if you just keep your mouth shut and smile politely.
> 
> That being said, seriously dude, kudos for making jokes about menstrual cycles on a mostly chick forum. .



My gf seems to think I have too many female connections in my life.. I actually grew up surrounded by women. And as much as I love women in a general sense. I hate women who think that they have exclusive rights to feelings, or that men are in someway inferior which is what I'm generally sensing here. That old "you're wrong because you're a guy" sheet music has been pulled out and people are still making assumptions.


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## stldpn (Sep 27, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Who wants pics? Im sick of skinny bitches and fat ones too. Im a fabulous person who is respecfull to those that deserve it. Im not a troll, are any of you? Just because I come from a different angle, not oo I love being fat, its so awesome how the world loves me. I admit I am struggling, I am REAL. I am SURE a lot of you FAT WOMEN dont wanna be fat, but yet are here because you want to be accepted. Then judge me for my honesty. You judge the other camp of "skinny", yet you are no better. Maybe worse as you know how hard it is to be different from what society expects a woman to look like. HMMMM



Thank you for creating a thread that has gone so horribly wrong that I'm beginning to think your initial self loathing at the beginning makes you the most honest and well adjusted poster here.


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## stldpn (Sep 27, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Im just trying to accept myself as I am right now. I want to be healthy. period. I want to walk and run and not be out of breath doing so. I dont want to walk with my friends and not sweat and huff and puff. I want to be active again . My weight will then fall into what it wants to be at that point. I came here for different reasons and I feel the fact that I wasnt pro fat for MYSELF . I got hated upon. I am having a hard time being fat, its getting easier as I am sick of all bitches like I said fat or skinny and they can eat my ass if they wanna talk shit about my weight gain. Oh yes, I get it from heavy people too . Amazing that someone who is fat commenting on my weight gain. A Fat women I know when I saw her last week said I guess weight watchers didnt work huh. Your bigger than ever Fucking rude, everyone is soo obsessed with my weight. I wanna sit on them . LOL . My points are it seems like a thin veil of BS here with everyone joyous to be fat. Cant we feel sexy and beautiful , but still talk about our strugles and pain. Its very real if you live outside of a computer and deal with humans on a daily basis.



Like all forums this place is a place where people craft identities. My identity is disagreeable chauvanist asshole. Most people don't live those identities outside of a forum though. I'm certainly not as one dimensional as these people seem to think. Having misgivings, especially about our appearance, is natural no matter what your weight is, which is why it really becomes important to like the person you are inside. 

I might have missed that point in my initial post to you but I don't think I did. You get to a certain age and you may suddenly realize that every little bit of you will rot away some day, so the physical is fleeting. 

Doesn't mean you shouldn't maximize what you have for as long as you have it but it puts more emphasis on the you inside. And IMHO when most of us are looking for a partner we're looking for those internal traits and confidences.


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## Paquito (Sep 27, 2009)

stldpn said:


> My gf seems to think I have too many female connections in my life.. I actually grew up surrounded by women. And as much as I love women in a general sense. I hate women who think that they have exclusive rights to feelings, or that men are in someway inferior which is what I'm generally sensing here. That old "you're wrong because you're a guy" sheet music has been pulled out and people are *still making assumptions*.



You're right, assumptions in general suck. Like how some people say that (in reference to women) "you guys are being cold and hard and rational when you cry because we're out of choc milk and funions."


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## katorade (Sep 28, 2009)

stldpn said:


> Like all forums this place is a place where people craft identities. My identity is disagreeable chauvanist asshole. Most people don't live those identities outside of a forum though. I'm certainly not as one dimensional as these people seem to think.




Maybe if you didn't pretend to have the identity of a disagreeable chauvinistic asshole people wouldn't treat you like a disagreeable chauvinistic asshole. 

It doesn't really matter who you really are if all we know is the verbose jackass that talks out of his ass on here. You put across the idea that you're a jerk, and that's what you're going to get. Don't act like it's _our_ fault for not knowing the "real" you.


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## stldpn (Sep 29, 2009)

free2beme04 said:


> You're right, assumptions in general suck. Like how some people say that (in reference to women) "you guys are being cold and hard and rational when you cry because we're out of choc milk and funions."



hey it's a generalized statement not an assumption. And if you've never seen or heard a woman cry over something that is completely and totally irrational you must not of endured much female company at all. Never saw your mom cry over the phone company, dog food and insurance program commercials? There are whole industries built around exploiting the things that we know about how men and women deal with emotions. Have you ever seen a tool advertised and promoted based on how it'll make your relationship with your wife and child better?


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## stldpn (Sep 29, 2009)

katorade said:


> Maybe if you didn't pretend to have the identity of a disagreeable chauvinistic asshole people wouldn't treat you like a disagreeable chauvinistic asshole.
> 
> It doesn't really matter who you really are if all we know is the verbose jackass that talks out of his ass on here. You put across the idea that you're a jerk, and that's what you're going to get. Don't act like it's _our_ fault for not knowing the "real" you.



I don't know that I'm acting like it's your fault for not knowing me... only pointing out the fact that you don't... clear enough?

Besides that i don't think talking out of my ass is the way to put it... especially since i could essentially accuse everyone else here of the same thing... from what I've seen you've been essentially unable to accept the fact that I'm not less of a person simply because I have opinions that you find "hurtful"... Besides that i'd like to point out I've never actually called anyone names, accused anyone of ignorance, stupidity, malice or arrogance. Brown nosing yes, but I'm pretty sure that one was deserved and provoked so I'm not gonna apologize for it. Have fun trying to rip this apart.


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## TraciJo67 (Sep 29, 2009)

stldpn said:


> hey it's a generalized statement not an assumption. And if you've never seen or heard a woman cry over something that is completely and totally irrational you must not of endured much female company at all. Never saw your mom cry over the phone company, dog food and insurance program commercials? There are whole industries built around exploiting the things that we know about how men and women deal with emotions. Have you ever seen a tool advertised and promoted based on how it'll make your relationship with your wife and child better?



Hell, generalizing is fun. I want to take a stab at it!

Lemme go grab my dirty, beer-stained wife-beater and my crotch and I'll be right back to commiserate with you on how emotional and useless these pop tarts really are. Damn, bro -- sometimes I wish we lived in Tent City, Saudi Arabia where we could SHOW those uppity, irrational bisotches just who rules the roost (such as it is).


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 29, 2009)

stldpn said:


> hey it's a generalized statement not an assumption. *And if you've never seen or heard a woman cry over something that is completely and totally irrational you must not of endured much female company at all. Never saw your mom cry over the phone company, dog food and insurance program commercials? There are whole industries built around exploiting the things that we know about how men and women deal with emotions. *Have you ever seen a tool advertised and promoted based on how it'll make your relationship with your wife and child better?




Actually....no. I have never seen women cry over those things. I have seen them cry over some real hard core stuff though.....along with some men I have known. I have also seen a woman pitch a temper tantrum.....just like I have seen plenty of men in my reality, and on this forum, do the same. 

Don't let TV commercials define your outlook of the opposite sex. I hope you understand why that wouldn't be a wise thing......


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## katorade (Sep 29, 2009)

stldpn said:


> I don't know that I'm acting like it's your fault for not knowing me... only pointing out the fact that you don't... clear enough?
> 
> Besides that i don't think talking out of my ass is the way to put it... especially since i could essentially accuse everyone else here of the same thing... from what I've seen you've been essentially unable to accept the fact that I'm not less of a person simply because I have opinions that you find "hurtful"... Besides that i'd like to point out I've never actually called anyone names, accused anyone of ignorance, stupidity, malice or arrogance. Brown nosing yes, but I'm pretty sure that one was deserved and provoked so I'm not gonna apologize for it. Have fun trying to rip this apart.



Now you're the one assuming things. Please point out where I called you less of a person or where any of your opinions have been hurtful. You're mildly amusing, not exactly affecting my psyche in any way. Believe me, if I felt enough ire to try and rip anything apart, you'd know it. I haven't even put my sarcastic pants on. Talk about sensitive!

And I _still_ have no idea where you get this brown nosing thing from or what that has to do with being a woman.


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## Paquito (Sep 29, 2009)

stldpn said:


> hey it's a generalized statement not an assumption. And if you've never seen or heard a woman cry over something that is completely and totally irrational you must not of endured much female company at all. Never saw your mom cry over the phone company, dog food and insurance program commercials? There are whole industries built around exploiting the things that we know about how men and women deal with emotions. Have you ever seen a tool advertised and promoted based on how it'll make your relationship with your wife and child better?



Actually, I hang around almost exclusively with women, and I have never seen that kind of level of irrational behavior just because they are women. Yea, I know some psycho women, but I know alot of psycho men too. Your kind of thinking is extremely backwards, but any socially adjusted person could see that.


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## mossystate (Sep 29, 2009)

How is crying over something that touches you emotionally....irrational?!?

How is it psycho behavior?!?
:doh:

Of course there are people who might cry at all kinds of things that another can look at and not faze them in the slightest. Why is the ' emotional ' person suspect. That is a fucked up way to look at other human beings, and how they express themselves.

Of course people who make the Hallmark commercials know that there will be those who weep over the now retired school teacher who gets a visit in the retirement home from a former student who was greatly shaped and molded by what they learned.

A dog food commercial might trigger a feeling of joy over a long lost pet. Maybe it is simply the enthusiasm of the animal that makes one feel more alive themselves. Maybe a ceiling fan commercial, tied up with normal and natural and doesn't make one weak, hormonal cycles ( men have these too...ooops!! ) , has a woman remembering a honeymoon in a warm place, with the man or woman she grew to love and know just a little bit more than she had. How is this irrational or psycho?

Women do tend to cry more than men. There are many factors. This is not across the board, or experienced by every woman to the degree of the next woman. Tear production is also at play in all of it. Why is a more female trait so sneered at on this planet. Fuck that. 


Oh, and if you don't think that NFL commercials of sweaty warriors, who have just been knocked down, but get back up...walk into a staged and well lit fog...is not playing on the emoooootions of men...then you are arrogant. 

And, if you think those commercials that show a man getting an alarm installed in his house, while video streams of his precious children upstairs in their beds, is not playing to the stuff that hits his square in the chest ( ok, so maybe tears don't stream, but they are there in his heart and his gut ) ..again...blind. Or a commercial where a man is gettin' the brakes checked on his ride, so little Susie does not go head first into the windshield. Or a commercial that shows TOOLS making a crib for a soon to be in his arms baby. Or a commercial showing some nice dudes building a ramp for an elderly neighbor.

But, if the actual water is not seen, it ( heavy emotions )..didn't happen Let me find something........................

My roomie is a man. I can't count the number of times he has teared up over things that some of you would call psycho behavior...or...irrational. All I know is that at least I know that he is not a robot...cuz if ya don't tear up now and then, you are without a soul and robotic...right? No?


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## joswitch (Sep 29, 2009)

mossystate said:


> How is crying over something that touches you emotionally....irrational?!? ...cuz if ya don't tear up now and then, you are without a soul and robotic...right? No?



Right.

Agree.

No snark.


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## Donna (Sep 29, 2009)

stldpn said:


> hey it's a generalized statement not an assumption. And if you've never seen or heard a woman cry over something that is completely and totally irrational you must not of endured much female company at all. Never saw your mom cry over the phone company, dog food and insurance program commercials? There are whole industries built around exploiting the things that we know about how men and women deal with emotions. Have you ever seen a tool advertised and promoted based on how it'll make your relationship with your wife and child better?



What year is it where you live? I mean, I know some of central Florida can be a bit behind those of us who live on the coasts, but I had no idea you all were still living in the 50s and 60s. (How's that for a generalization, dear?) 

And no, I haven't witnessed my Mom crying over phone company commercials. However, I have witnessed my Father and one of my older brothers cry over something similar. I inherited my sentimentality and emotional streak from them and I am damned proud of it. 

Yes, *in general* men and women react to emotions differently and there are certain patterns of behavior that can be extrapolated from looking at that behavior in a very broad way. In my opinion, the issue here isn't your generalizations. It is the condescending and judgmental attitude you seem to be taking towards those who are disagreeing with you based on those generalizations.

I know, I know...I'll shut up now and go fix you a turkey pot pie.


----------



## Famouslastwords (Sep 29, 2009)

I agree with the tool, erm I mean stldpn. Bitches be crazy!

I cry when in court while I'm being prosecuted for "pulling a Lorena Bobbitt."


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Sep 29, 2009)

Famouslastwords said:


> I agree with the tool, erm I mean stldpn. Bitches be crazy!
> 
> I cry when in court while I'm being prosecuted for "pulling a Lorena Bobbitt."




You so crazy....come here...I want to do you AND stupeddik in the eye now.....:smitten: :blink:


----------



## Dr. P Marshall (Sep 30, 2009)

katorade said:


> I haven't even put my sarcastic pants on.



I have nothing constructive to add. I will say that this thread has upset me greatly because I was not aware that Katorade even HAD sarcastic pants. And to be honest.....I'm disappointed I haven't seen them. 

Oh wait! I'm an FA, so....Katorade pleaspostpixkthankx.:smitten:

Oh wait, I'm a FEMALE FA.....I'm just going to go cry because Katorade is withholding her sarcastic pants pictures.


----------



## Paquito (Sep 30, 2009)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> Oh wait, I'm a FEMALE FA.....I'm just going to go cry because Katorade is withholding her sarcastic pants pictures.



Don't forget that you need to cry because she stole your chocolate milk and funions.


----------



## Dr. P Marshall (Sep 30, 2009)

free2beme04 said:


> Don't forget that you need to cry because she stole your chocolate milk and funions.



OK, see I was confused whether the chocolate milk and funions were a guy only thing or what?


----------



## Paquito (Sep 30, 2009)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> OK, see I was confused whether the chocolate milk and funions were a guy only thing or what?



And it was such a weird combination. But hey, since ALL women do it apparently, who am I to disagree?


----------



## Dr. P Marshall (Oct 1, 2009)

free2beme04 said:


> And it was such a weird combination. But hey, since ALL women do it apparently, who am I to disagree?



Stop it. Your attempts at understanding my gender are making me tear up and I can no longer see clearly to type. 


And where are my funions? *sniffle*


----------



## TraciJo67 (Oct 1, 2009)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> Stop it. Your attempts at understanding my gender are making me tear up and I can no longer see clearly to type.
> 
> 
> And where are my funions? *sniffle*



And where THE FUCK is my MOTHER FUCKING chocolate milk? 

Wait. I'm supposed to be sobbing demurely, aren't I? :doh:


----------



## Paquito (Oct 1, 2009)

Is it safe to assume that I since there are no funions or chocolate milk that I'm entitled to cry too, since I'm supposed to be obsessed with food? Or is sizism crossing the line too much?


----------



## Dr. P Marshall (Oct 1, 2009)

free2beme04 said:


> Is it safe to assume that I since there are no funions or chocolate milk that I'm entitled to cry too, since I'm supposed to be obsessed with food? Or is sizism crossing the line too much?



Oh here we go.....a fat person whining about their struggle with funions. Get over it and just post pictures would you!


----------



## Paquito (Oct 1, 2009)

Dr. P Marshall said:


> Oh here we go.....a fat person whining about their struggle with funions. Get over it and just post pictures would you!



Only if you post pics of you crying over an empty funion bag.


----------



## Dr. P Marshall (Oct 1, 2009)

free2beme04 said:


> Only if you post pics of you crying over an empty funion bag.



Wait, wait, wait. I'm not a BBW or BHM. Just an FFA. Ergo, I get to demand pictures. You are both an FA and fat, and therefore subject to picture demands. This isn't that hard people.


----------



## BubbleButtBabe (Oct 1, 2009)

Famouslastwords said:


> I agree with the tool, erm I mean stldpn. Bitches be crazy!
> 
> I cry when in court while I'm being prosecuted for "pulling a Lorena Bobbitt."



It's them carrots and squirrels I tell ya..You been around them way to much! *snickers*


----------



## Famouslastwords (Oct 1, 2009)

No one wants your crazy farmtown talk on the weight board here Linda, get back on my farm and harvest my carrots!


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## joswitch (Oct 1, 2009)

free2beme04 said:


> Don't forget that you need to cry because she stole your chocolate milk and funions.




Errrr.... what the hell is a funion anyway???
I don't think we have them over here...

Why do I think it's an onion covered in marshmallow and chocolate?


----------



## Rowan (Oct 1, 2009)

joswitch said:


> Errrr.... what the hell is a funion anyway???
> I don't think we have them over here...
> 
> Why do I think it's an onion covered in marshmallow and chocolate?



they are crunchy corn puffed goodness flavored like onions


----------



## Carrie (Oct 1, 2009)

I am about to finish off my Hershey's Kisses, which makes me maybe a little melancholy, but not on the verge of tears. However, if that old Iams commercial comes on with the little red-haired girl and her Irish Setter Casey, and they show them growing up together and Casey getting old and creaky and slow going up the stairs, all bets are off 'cause I'll be crying within mere seconds. When I was married, my ex-husband rarely cried, but when he got a little head cold, his usually adult emotional state would instantly revert to a helpless, needy little toddler mindset, where I had to reassure him that he was going to live, and fetch him orange juice, chicken soup and the National Enquirer, and coax him to take his Nyquil. Everyone has their quirky (to others, anyway) emotional buttons, I guess, regardless of gender.


----------



## joswitch (Oct 1, 2009)

Rowan said:


> they are crunchy corn puffed goodness flavored like onions



Ah, I see! thanks!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 1, 2009)

Now I want to do that Irish setter in the eye......after I'm done with stoopeddick.....but his eye is watering something fierce......he ain't crying or nothing though......FLW never said how big those carrots are......:blink:


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## Famouslastwords (Oct 2, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Now I want to do that Irish setter in the eye......after I'm done with stoopeddick.....but his eye is watering something fierce......he ain't crying or nothing though......FLW never said how big those carrots are......:blink:



They're as big as cucumbers, and I don't even use horse or cow shit. I shit on 'em myself for fertilizer. Who'd have thunk it?

Yep, I'm guessing that was in the realm of TMI.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 3, 2009)

Famouslastwords said:


> They're as big as cucumbers, and I don't even use horse or cow shit. I shit on 'em myself for fertilizer. Who'd have thunk it?
> 
> Yep, I'm guessing that was in the realm of TMI.



Now you got me all turned on again, you trampvixen cucumber queen :blush:

I feel like crying now.......:doh:

stupeddik fetch me a tissue......


----------



## mergirl (Oct 3, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Now you got me all turned on again, you trampvixen cucumber queen :blush:
> 
> I feel like crying now.......:doh:
> 
> stupeddik fetch me a tissue......


WHY do i have no rep for "Trampvixen cucumber queen"!!!!!!! Boo hoo!!!!!
You have made me laugh twice this morning and i'm out of goddam rep...
Grrr.. i just love me some slutty cheap veg talk too!!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 3, 2009)

mergirl said:


> WHY do i have no rep for "Trampvixen cucumber queen"!!!!!!! Boo hoo!!!!!
> You have made me laugh twice this morning and i'm out of goddam rep...
> Grrr.. i just love me some slutty cheap veg talk too!!



Forget me....be sure to rep FLW for shitting on those big.........carrots. A girl that will do what a girl's got to do......


----------



## mergirl (Oct 4, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Forget me....be sure to rep FLW for shitting on those big.........carrots. A girl that will do what a girl's got to do......


Done! 
Sleazy veg rep given!!


----------



## stldpn (Oct 5, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Hell, generalizing is fun. I want to take a stab at it!
> 
> Lemme go grab my dirty, beer-stained wife-beater and my crotch and I'll be right back to commiserate with you on how emotional and useless these pop tarts really are. Damn, bro -- sometimes I wish we lived in Tent City, Saudi Arabia where we could SHOW those uppity, irrational bisotches just who rules the roost (such as it is).



We're makin the jump to redneck racist huh? That's kind of cute... maybe I should buy a ball cap and a paisley hanky... course then as I think I've explained before... all things considered I think the divisions are much worse up north... down here you have doublewides and brand new homes on the same stretch of county blacktop... not quite as much "class distinction" you know?


----------



## stldpn (Oct 5, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Actually....no. I have never seen women cry over those things. I have seen them cry over some real hard core stuff though.....along with some men I have known. I have also seen a woman pitch a temper tantrum.....just like I have seen plenty of men in my reality, and on this forum, do the same.
> 
> Don't let TV commercials define your outlook of the opposite sex. I hope you understand why that wouldn't be a wise thing......



Your mom must have been a brute... even my mom gets misty when she sees those aspca things with the sarah mclachlan background music...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX_RnEyaifU

and don't tell me that's hardcore cause you know let's be honest it's not like they're beating a dog in your living room


----------



## stldpn (Oct 5, 2009)

mossystate said:


> How is crying over something that touches you emotionally....irrational?!?
> 
> How is it psycho behavior?!?
> :doh:
> ...



Did i say the emotional person was suspect? nope 

But they are a little irritating if you're just not into the drama... 
here's what I mean when I talk about commercials aimed at guys vs commercials aimed at girls 

we like explanation 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5BA9rrrcrs
and humor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZNR5mxQDwM

no offense but unless it's mine I'm not into watching a sleeping baby for more than ten seconds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndcCVfp0AMU


----------



## stldpn (Oct 5, 2009)

free2beme04 said:


> And it was such a weird combination. But hey, since ALL women do it apparently, who am I to disagree?



one very specific woman does it... are you saying that makes her completely nuts? I don't think so


----------



## Tooz (Oct 5, 2009)

stldpn said:


> I think the divisions are much worse up north... down here you have doublewides and brand new homes on the same stretch of county blacktop.



Clearly, you've never been to Maine.

Rural != Southern. Rednecks aplenty up here.

PS you can't get me to watch ANYONE'S baby for ten seconds. I hate babies. I REALLY hate babies.  How does that make me for a woman?


----------



## stldpn (Oct 5, 2009)

Donna said:


> It is the condescending and judgmental attitude you seem to be taking towards those who are disagreeing with you based on those generalizations.
> 
> I know, I know...I'll shut up now and go fix you a turkey pot pie.



oh look it's that same condescending attitude you're accusing me of having... only from you... that makes it ok right? 
oh and just because i feel like being random... 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOVyRoU_Q78


----------



## stldpn (Oct 5, 2009)

Tooz said:


> Clearly, you've never been to Maine.
> 
> Rural != Southern. Rednecks aplenty up here.
> 
> PS you can't get me to watch ANYONE'S baby for ten seconds. I hate babies. I REALLY hate babies.  How does that make me for a woman?



I hear you're kind of a brute anyway... more of a peppermint patty type... am I wrong?

besides I'm not talking about homes on land I'm talking about spitting distance...


----------



## stldpn (Oct 5, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> And where THE FUCK is my MOTHER FUCKING chocolate milk?
> 
> Wait. I'm supposed to be sobbing demurely, aren't I? :doh:



rage is also acceptable... as long as it ends in a crying fit...


----------



## stldpn (Oct 5, 2009)

joswitch said:


> Errrr.... what the hell is a funion anyway???
> I don't think we have them over here...
> 
> Why do I think it's an onion covered in marshmallow and chocolate?



It's actually a fried corn puff with a spray on onion flavoring... very tasty


----------



## stldpn (Oct 5, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Now I want to do that Irish setter in the eye......after I'm done with stoopeddick.....but his eye is watering something fierce......he ain't crying or nothing though......FLW never said how big those carrots are......:blink:



wait I get it now is this a reference to me? could you hit me in the left one the right one was kind of costly.


----------



## mossystate (Oct 5, 2009)

Nah...I am not going to look at your little videos. 

Seems you live...or not...depending on what you have been told is appropriate behavior for women, and what is appropriate for boys. That is, unless a couple of women on an online message board give you some grief...then it is all-out , " I will label you within an inch of both of our lives ".

Good for you, guy....good for you...^5 Come on here with some personal pain ( and not jsut the _*drama*_ you talked about, concerning another dude ), and watch me tell you to get over it and stop being a wuss. Please. Thanks.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 5, 2009)

stldpn said:


> wait I get it now is this a reference to me? could you hit me in the left one the right one was kind of costly.



Who are you?

And why do you want me to do you in the eye? I still got that Irish Setter in my sights.....


----------



## Famouslastwords (Oct 6, 2009)

This song makes me get teary eyed every time my boyfriend sings it to me.


God I really love pudding......


And funions.


----------



## stldpn (Oct 6, 2009)

mossystate said:


> Nah...I am not going to look at your little videos.
> 
> Seems you live...or not...depending on what you have been told is appropriate behavior for women, and what is appropriate for boys. That is, unless a couple of women on an online message board give you some grief...then it is all-out , " I will label you within an inch of both of our lives ".
> 
> Good for you, guy....good for you...^5 Come on here with some personal pain ( and not jsut the _*drama*_ you talked about, concerning another dude ), and watch me tell you to get over it and stop being a wuss. Please. Thanks.



AWW afraid you might have to concede something that people in the real world already know?


----------



## stldpn (Oct 6, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Who are you?
> 
> And why do you want me to do you in the eye? I still got that Irish Setter in my sights.....



Who am I ? 
Anti-socialite. 
Secret Admirer. 
Student Loaner. 
Continental Drifter. 
Professional Bootlegger. 
Spin Doctor. 
Unapologetic elistist.
Self Referentialist. 
Road Runner. 
Death Merchant.
Avant Guardian Angel Dust Mite. 

fun times


----------



## mossystate (Oct 6, 2009)

stldpn said:


> AWW afraid you might have to concede something that people in the real world already know?



Concede what? It is ok if you have not read most of my posts, as I certainly have skimmed some of yours. You seem so angry over what a few people had said to you, that now you just want to pitch tantrums. 

What was that about drama?


----------



## katorade (Oct 6, 2009)

stldpn said:


> AWW afraid you might have to concede something that people in the real world already know?



No, man. I'm pretty sure she's just too bored with you to spend time on your links.

If you'd like to look at a link, though, here's one:


http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm

Just posting it as a rebuttal to your "rational behavior" argument. Rational people typically don't end up in prison. Here's some fun little bullet points if you don't have the attention span to read that much:


The prevalence of imprisonment in 2001 was higher for
 -- black males (16.6%) and Hispanic males (7.7%) than for white males (2.6%) 
-- black females (1.7%) and Hispanic females (0.7%) than white females (0.3%)


Lifetime chances of a person going to prison are higher for -- men (11.3%) than for women (1.8%)

Women were 6.6% of the State prison inmates in 2001, up from 6% in 1995.

More than 50% of the women in jail said they had been physically or sexually abused in the past, compared to more than 10% of the men.
In 1998 there were an estimated 3.2 million arrests of women, accounting for 22% of all arrests that year.
Based on self-reports of victims of violence, women account for 14% of violent offenders, an annual average of about 2.1 million violent female offenders.
Women accounted for about 16% of all felons convicted in State courts in 1996: 8% of convicted violent felons, 23% of property felons, and 17% of drug felons.
In 1998 more than 950,000 women were under correctional supervision, about 1% of the U.S. female population.
Let me break that down a little bit... over 93% of people in prison are MEN. Half of the less than 10% of women in prison claim to have been sexually abused in the past, most likely by a man (I'd gladly go scrounge up the likelihood percentage of being abused by a man vs. a woman), which in itself is being victimized by irrational behavior.

How are you guys the rational ones that don't act on emotion again? You sorta lost me. So, we cry when we're upset with someone and you...beat them or shoot them or whatever it does to land the millions of men in the US in prison for crimes of intimacy (about 40%)....and WE'RE the irrational ones....









.....






....uh huh.


----------



## stldpn (Oct 6, 2009)

mossystate said:


> Concede what? It is ok if you have not read most of my posts, as I certainly have skimmed some of yours. You seem so angry over what a few people had said to you, that now you just want to pitch tantrums.
> 
> What was that about drama?



Well the whole I'm not watching your vids because I can type out a half page of drivel but i just don't have time to look at a 30 second clip thing is just plain... well... childish... only thrown in to solicit response... and you got your response... so what are you whining about now?


----------



## stldpn (Oct 6, 2009)

katorade said:


> No, man. I'm pretty sure she's just too bored with you to spend time on your links.
> 
> If you'd like to look at a link, though, here's one:
> 
> ...



Yeah white men are so evil it's such a shame... We've never done anything for humanity. 

The rationality thing is simple... I'm sorry you can't see it... Men are traditionally rational thinkers we're not taught to judge situations based solely on emotions... Women are still raised with the idea that they should find a way to be well married. 

BTW I'm going to throw myself way out on a ledge and tell you that in my lifetime... especially my internet lifetime I've heard far too many women tell me that they were abused by the men in their lives... and when you ask for proof... any kind of proof... pictures... police reports... emergency room records... a family member or friend who actually coroborates because they were there and saw something... it never materializes... funny that... there are so many well connected white devils out there and all of the women they abused are inside the system. 

I'll concede to you that women are more likely to be at risk in this world. But why is that? Cause I don't think that a rational person can blame every mistake a woman makes on men. You wouldn't give a black man a slap on the hand because he was forced to sell crack. But you're argueing that a black woman is forced to prostitute? Victim mindstates are not often improved by reinforcement.


----------



## TraciJo67 (Oct 6, 2009)

stldpn said:


> Yeah white men are so evil it's such a shame... We've never done anything for humanity.
> 
> The rationality thing is simple... I'm sorry you can't see it... Men are traditionally rational thinkers we're not taught to judge situations based solely on emotions... Women are still raised with the idea that they should find a way to be well married.
> 
> ...



Repugnant.

Dude (and I do mean dude) ... on behalf of my single BBW friends, thanks for the favor. And by favor, I'm referring to the glimpse into your character and personality. Really. Thanks.


----------



## comaseason (Oct 6, 2009)

stldpn said:


> Yeah white men are so evil it's such a shame... We've never done anything for humanity.
> 
> The rationality thing is simple... I'm sorry you can't see it... Men are traditionally rational thinkers we're not taught to judge situations based solely on emotions... Women are still raised with the idea that they should find a way to be well married.
> 
> ...



I find the bolded statement absolutely disgusting. Unequivocally. Yeah you threw yourself out on a ledge alright, and over it. Good job. No one owes you "proof" of their abuse. No one. Unless you're the law and you're pressing charges or something.

Either you are truly going out of your way to be offensive and/or stir the pot, or you're so narrow-minded that trying to reason with you would be a fool's errand.

Seriously. If I was you, and obviously I'm glad I'm not for reasons that don't need explaining thanks to you, I would really examine your statements and see where you might be missing the fucking plot.


----------



## Paquito (Oct 6, 2009)

stldpn said:


> Yeah white men are so evil it's such a shame... We've never done anything for humanity.
> 
> The rationality thing is simple... I'm sorry you can't see it... Men are traditionally rational thinkers we're not taught to judge situations based solely on emotions... Women are still raised with the idea that they should find a way to be well married.
> 
> ...



Way to make it racial. The only thing in this thread before your post that had anything related to race were those stats that katorade posted. But yea, we're all secretly trying to bring the white man down. You caught us!


----------



## mossystate (Oct 6, 2009)

stldpn said:


> Well the whole I'm not watching your vids because I can type out a half page of drivel but i just don't have time to look at a 30 second clip thing is just plain... well... childish... only thrown in to solicit response... and you got your response... so what are you whining about now?




Funny how I did not find a desire to watch your little videos, after you had, once again, blathered on about how irritating ' women 'are...even about emotions that you yourself were feeling early on ( emotions for your brother...pal...whatever ). Yeah...that's me...I am gonna do as you suggest, after you flip me off. lol Ummmm...yeah.

---
_" Apparently though there is some sort of ban on being sensitive to the pressures that other's face. "_
---

Why not just be a man and stop the needing/demanding message board people care about your feelings, or the feelings of those you know? I did not dismiss anybody's feelings. You, however, lashed out when the very people you sneer at...' emotional women '...did not give you the very thing you say you hate. Again...pick a lane.


----------



## joswitch (Oct 6, 2009)

stldpn said:


> *snip*
> 
> BTW I'm going to throw myself way out on a ledge *snip*



For sake of accurate description you shoulda made that:
"_BTW I'm going to throw myself way *OFF* a ledge..._"
cos that's what you just did there...

That you can muster up sympathy for your mate's problems, is cool.
That you can't muster up sympathy for women who've been abused? 
Sucks.
Big time.


----------



## LisaInNC (Oct 6, 2009)

stldpn said:


> BTW I'm going to throw myself way out on a ledge and tell you that in my lifetime... especially my internet lifetime I've heard far too many women tell me that they were abused by the men in their lives... and when you ask for proof... any kind of proof... pictures... police reports... emergency room records... a family member or friend who actually coroborates because they were there and saw something... it never materializes... funny that... there are so many well connected white devils out there and all of the women they abused are inside the system.
> 
> I'll concede to you that women are more likely to be at risk in this world. But why is that? Cause I don't think that a rational person can blame every mistake a woman makes on men. You wouldn't give a black man a slap on the hand because he was forced to sell crack. But you're argueing that a black woman is forced to prostitute? Victim mindstates are not often improved by reinforcement.



Ok, I feel I must step in on this one. Dan, as my boyfriend I am honestly ashamed of you right now. How dare you question someones claims of abuse just because they have not produced proof to you. Because someone doesnt report it or take pictures of it, its untrue? How absurd is that. Furthermore, why should someone produce documentation of abuse to someone on the internet. They owe you nothing. 
As far as the prostitution thing, no one forces anyone to do anything, you are right. However, when a woman grows up as a sex toy for some man who is supposed to love her and protect her, her feelings are thats all she is worth. Thats how she is supposed to act. Granted all prostitutes were not sexually abused, but you will find the vast majority of them have been. It is men like you who make women afraid to report sexual abuse. Not all abuse leaves a bruise and as a doctor you should be very aware of that. I cant imagine being a child and needing to turn to you for help with this problem. Because if the child has no proof, you will send them back into the arms of their abuser.
You should really be ashamed of yourself for even thinking the way you do about this.
p.s.
I will be reaming you about this on the phone later


----------



## Tooz (Oct 6, 2009)

stldpn said:


> I hear you're kind of a brute anyway... more of a peppermint patty type... am I wrong?
> 
> besides I'm not talking about homes on land I'm talking about spitting distance...



Aaaand so am I, baby boy.

Re: brute.

LOLLINATING THE COUNTRYSIDE. So many things wrong with this. Gee, I wonder who your source might be  Though I agree with her previous post here.


----------



## Donna (Oct 6, 2009)

stldpn said:


> oh look it's that same condescending attitude you're accusing me of having... only from you... that makes it ok right?
> oh and just because i feel like being random...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOVyRoU_Q78



Yes, I was condescending in my reply. It's called the mirror effect, and I was using it to make a point. Your replies to some of the posts in this thread have only served to sharpen said point. 

And I add this in all seriousness, though you probably won't take it as such: Thank you for the link of the BHM dancing without his shirt on. I enjoyed it.


----------



## LisaInNC (Oct 6, 2009)

Tooz said:


> Re: brute.
> 
> LOLLINATING THE COUNTRYSIDE. So many things wrong with this. Gee, I wonder who your source might be  Though I agree with her previous post here.



I promise I had nothing to do with whatever he said to you. I never even told him about our feuds until last night.


----------



## Famouslastwords (Oct 6, 2009)

How did this thread turn into that guy making an idiot out of himself?

And Lisa, really? *THAT'S *your boyfriend? Really? Really? Really? Really?

Why?

You don't have to justify it to us anymore than someone who was abused has to show proof to people, but seriously? HIM?

Must be some slim pickins where you're from.

I feel your pain, there's some slim pickins here too.


----------



## katorade (Oct 6, 2009)

Famouslastwords said:


> How did this thread turn into that guy making an idiot out of himself?
> 
> And Lisa, really? *THAT'S *your boyfriend? Really? Really? Really? Really?
> 
> ...




Come on now, there is no reason to bring their relationship into it at all. Anybody's feelings towards his stance on here should have absolutely no bearing at all on Lisa or her judgement, so let's not even go there. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it if your boyfriend said something you may not agree with and people turned and looked at you for a reason why you're attracted to him.


----------



## Famouslastwords (Oct 6, 2009)

katorade said:


> Come on now, there is no reason to bring their relationship into it at all. Anybody's feelings towards his stance on here should have absolutely no bearing at all on Lisa or her judgement, so let's not even go there. I'm sure you wouldn't appreciate it if your boyfriend said something you may not agree with and people turned and looked at you for a reason why you're attracted to him.




Yeah, but he's just made an ass out of himself. It's more than just "saying something I don't agree with."


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## TraciJo67 (Oct 7, 2009)

Famouslastwords said:


> Yeah, but he's just made an ass out of himself. It's more than just "saying something I don't agree with."



I agree with Katorade. Lisa's judgment has nothing to do with this, and I'm cringing that I "went there" earlier (I had no idea that he is actually seeing someone from Dims). Lisa has, in fact, made it very clear that she doesn't agree with what he's said here. 

I don't know anything about their relationship, and you don't, either. Clearly, Lisa sees a side that we aren't seeing.


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

LisaInNC said:


> Ok, I feel I must step in on this one. Dan, as my boyfriend I am honestly ashamed of you right now. How dare you question someones claims of abuse just because they have not produced proof to you. Because someone doesnt report it or take pictures of it, its untrue? How absurd is that. Furthermore, why should someone produce documentation of abuse to someone on the internet. They owe you nothing.
> As far as the prostitution thing, no one forces anyone to do anything, you are right. However, when a woman grows up as a sex toy for some man who is supposed to love her and protect her, her feelings are thats all she is worth. Thats how she is supposed to act. Granted all prostitutes were not sexually abused, but you will find the vast majority of them have been. It is men like you who make women afraid to report sexual abuse. Not all abuse leaves a bruise and as a doctor you should be very aware of that. I cant imagine being a child and needing to turn to you for help with this problem. Because if the child has no proof, you will send them back into the arms of their abuser.
> You should really be ashamed of yourself for even thinking the way you do about this.
> p.s.
> I will be reaming you about this on the phone later



As I explained to you last night. I think we're just going to be disagreeing on this. 
As much as you hate it I think I did explain thoroughly why I don't take it for granted that anyone is "obviously" telling the truth when it comes to things like this. Especially when it comes to allegations that are in the distant past. It's just not that cut and dry. Kids lie, teenagers lie, grown women lie, taking an unproven allegation and running with it isn't fair to anyone. God forbid when someone is accused they never run the acquital as wide as the allegation. Every man has a mother, and some of them have wives and children who are also deeply hurt by those kinds of lies.


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

comaseason said:


> I find the bolded statement absolutely disgusting. Unequivocally. Yeah you threw yourself out on a ledge alright, and over it. Good job. No one owes you "proof" of their abuse. No one. Unless you're the law and you're pressing charges or something.
> 
> Either you are truly going out of your way to be offensive and/or stir the pot, or you're so narrow-minded that trying to reason with you would be a fool's errand.
> 
> Seriously. If I was you, and obviously I'm glad I'm not for reasons that don't need explaining thanks to you, I would really examine your statements and see where you might be missing the fucking plot.




No I'm just telling the truth... I know you may want to believe everything that you hear. But the women sited in the study... the women who are in prison system... are not entitled to my trust. 

Claims of abuse are not always caused by abuse. Some people, men and women, suffer from psychologic problems that cause them to lie about such things. People suffering from histrionic personality disorder and/or borderline personality disorder can pass a polygraph with their lies. They have an inherent need to seek attention and they are often so in tune with their own fantasies that they believe them. The roots of these disorders is thought to be entirely chemical so the idea that they're only messed up because daddy beat them or the neighbor fondled them just doesn't follow. Any claims must be verified carefully, (seriously there are all kinds of ways to verify physical and sexual abuse the idea that no one recognizes suspicious behaviour/injuries in hindsite is balderdash in fact you have to be more careful about the power of suggestion when you interview people about the distant past) because of the nature of the illness.


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

free2beme04 said:


> Way to make it racial. The only thing in this thread before your post that had anything related to race were those stats that katorade posted. But yea, we're all secretly trying to bring the white man down. You caught us!



Yes those stats that kate posted that falsely attempted to prove how irrational men were and look at that... black men and latino men ranked higher on the supposed scale of irrationality... the reality of it is I think Judges and DA's just have less of an issue with seperating men from their kids. And even less of an issue with seperating black and brown men from their families. But hey, I'm being a big fat meanie face by saying that. 

Crime and incarceration statistics have a great deal more to do with poverty and a lack of education... and that's an everybody issue.


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## TraciJo67 (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> No I'm just telling the truth... I know you may want to believe everything that you hear. But the women sited in the study... the women who are in prison system... are not entitled to my trust.
> 
> Claims of abuse are not always caused by abuse. Some people, men and women, suffer from psychologic problems that cause them to lie about such things. People suffering from histrionic personality disorder and/or borderline personality disorder can pass a polygraph with their lies. They have an inherent need to seek attention and they are often so in tune with their own fantasies that they believe them. The roots of these disorders is thought to be entirely chemical so the idea that they're only messed up because daddy beat them or the neighbor fondled them just doesn't follow. Any claims must be verified carefully, (seriously there are all kinds of ways to verify physical and sexual abuse the idea that no one recognizes suspicious behaviour/injuries in hindsite is balderdash in fact you have to be more careful about the power of suggestion when you interview people about the distant past) because of the nature of the illness.



Are you a doctor? Seems that Lisa may have said that you are, but your profile claims "network administrator". Dog help us all if you really are in a helping profession.

What you've failed to mention is that the percentage of the population suffering from a personality disorder, specifically one that would cause them to lie (far less, an ability to pass a lie detector test) , is very, very, VERY VERY low. So low, in fact, that I'm inclined to believe my clients when I hear stories of abuse or neglect, up to and including women who did time (and a statistically significant percentage are women who were actually PUSHED to a breaking point and a crime of passion, mostly by an abusive fuckwad of a husband or boyfriend). Or they're victim to a criminal justice system that isn't educated in the area of spousal abuse and post-traumatic stress disorder. 

Claims of abuse should be verified, certainly - if/when they can reasonably be verified. If they cannot, as is very often the case, what then, _Doctor_? Should we send the women/children back to their abusers because you don't happen to "believe" them without some kind of visual, substantive "proof"? 

Way to categorize, re: "I know you want to believe everything you hear" ... coz women are just emotional creatures, lacking the ability to think concretely, eh? Dude, you were born a few centuries too late. No, I don't believe every story that I hear. Nope, don't believe that anyone should be PROSECUTED without some kind of evidence (though aside from the criminal justice system, I firmly believe that ANY woman/child who claims that he/she is being abused should be taken on face value and given assistance, immediately, and without question). I do believe most claims of abuse. My mindset is to believe, until proven or shown otherwise. Then again, I'm a social worker, not a lawyer. Thank Dog for that.


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## katorade (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> No I'm just telling the truth... I know you may want to believe everything that you hear. But the women sited in the study... the women who are in prison system... are not entitled to my trust.
> 
> Claims of abuse are not always caused by abuse. Some people, men and women, suffer from psychologic problems that cause them to lie about such things. People suffering from histrionic personality disorder and/or borderline personality disorder can pass a polygraph with their lies. They have an inherent need to seek attention and they are often so in tune with their own fantasies that they believe them. The roots of these disorders is thought to be entirely chemical so the idea that they're only messed up because daddy beat them or the neighbor fondled them just doesn't follow. Any claims must be verified carefully, (seriously there are all kinds of ways to verify physical and sexual abuse the idea that no one recognizes suspicious behaviour/injuries in hindsite is balderdash in fact you have to be more careful about the power of suggestion when you interview people about the distant past) because of the nature of the illness.



Balderdash? _Balderdash?!?_ Let me tell you a little story from my own personal experience. I was molested when I was a child. For 9 years I thought it was just a terrible dream I'd had or my overactive imagination playing tricks on me because it was never, ever acknowledged by my family or the police or anyone else. I thought I just had a sick, twisted imagination. Then when I was 16, after I couldn't get it out of my head all those years, I asked my mother about it and she started to cry, as she had hoped it was something that happened so long ago when I was young that I might not remember or comprehend it happening, and they didn't want to put me through more trauma of reliving it after it happened. Well it did happen, and it took me NINE YEARS to actually know that.

Do you know how many women don't report sexual abuse because they feel shame about it? Because they think that somehow they could have prevented it? Do you know how many children are abused and don't tell anyone because they think THEY'VE done something wrong? 

You sir, are an idiot and an asshole, and I don't give a flying f**k if that is taken as a direct attack or insult. It's supposed to be. You deserve it. You'd get worse if we were face to face, so be grateful that's all I'm calling you.

And as far as me "falsely" giving information, that was information straight from the Dept. of Justice. Also, nothing I posted was supposed to be taken for racial content AT ALL, you just happened to go there to COMPLETELY avoid the information in front of you, the difference between MEN and WOMEN. 

Look. at. it. again. Look at it. Look at iiiiiiiiiiit.

Stop taking "traditional ideas" at face value and start realizing that people don't freaking act like it's laid out on the Honeymooners or the Flintstones or All in the Family, and that there is VERY REAL data proving you inherently, ridiculously WRONG. End of story. Get over yourself.


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

joswitch said:


> For sake of accurate description you shoulda made that:
> "_BTW I'm going to throw myself way *OFF* a ledge..._"
> cos that's what you just did there...
> 
> ...



It's not that I can't muster sympathy for them if I honestly believe them... but if I listen to them and it sounds like bull and everything that's come out of their mouth before has been rubbish too... how am I rationally supposed to say that they're coming forward with their tale of woe looking for something other than sympathy?

I used to work day in and day out with a woman whose husband is a lawyer... he beat the everloving crap out of her about once a month... I felt bad for her, but she stayed with him no matter what. I've also in the course of my life worked with people that were accused of battering their spouses. But only during the child custody, or alimony portions of the divorce mediation. People have all kinds of ways of being evil to one another. 

Giving creedence to someone who is lying because you're too afraid to ask them for proof or too lazy to investigate only demeans the people who have legitamately suffered and have a witness or a police report or a doctor's bill and it's pretty much why your mama told you to "always tell the truth."


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

Donna said:


> Yes, I was condescending in my reply. It's called the mirror effect, and I was using it to make a point. Your replies to some of the posts in this thread have only served to sharpen said point.
> 
> And I add this in all seriousness, though you probably won't take it as such: Thank you for the link of the BHM dancing without his shirt on. I enjoyed it.



I wanted you to have a little honey on the whiskey... why not?


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

Famouslastwords said:


> Yeah, but he's just made an ass out of himself. It's more than just "saying something I don't agree with."



I am an ass. But you know, it really is just something you don't agree with because you don't have the same experiences I do. 

You can think of it as being cold and mean. But I doubt strongly that Lisa would describe me that way in general. But then, I love her and that means I'm obligated to treat her opinions and feelings more kindly than yours.


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## ToniTails (Oct 7, 2009)

I think that you are way too wrapped up in what other people think of you--- depending on outside attention to give you a lift instead of having love for yourself---- i was thin as a teen and young adult and have had just as much attention all of my sizes

but i am confident and think i'm pretty damn cool

learn to love yourself- its essential




Lolita13 said:


> Im engaged , Im not dead!!! LOL. Yes I still like to receive positive attention. I have had it all my life, now I dont have it. My fiance has nothing to do with this. Im not saying I am going to cheat on him. Geez. I like to look good and be admired for beauty from men and women. I do think that is human nature to be somwhat vain. I'm saying gaining weight has worked extreemly against me and then I come on here and its another world. I do love the attention from my fiance, but I do go out in the world and interact with other people and hear OMG, you were so hot and now you gained weight. Did you have babies? Its too much already and yes my old guy friends say this to me. Telling me I have let myself go and where is that hot body etc. I hear it from females every day too. My post was started because I get so much anti fat comments EVERY single day and then I search the internet and its all this worshipig of larger women and I wonder if it was all real. Thanks Rollhandler for being very nice in your post. I wonder if gome guys are closeted fat lovers. Its hard though, even my male cosuin wont date a female over 135 pounds. I dont even feel like leaving my house anymore . I know you all probally dont know how this feels. It is heartbreaking to me to have these comments and stares everyday and also the feeling of being invisible in regards to beauty. I guess no one gets me.


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## ToniTails (Oct 7, 2009)

You have no idea how much pain and courage it takes to talk about this kind of abuse--- there is no point in talking to you about it, so i won't bother trying to explain a damn thing




stldpn said:


> No I'm just telling the truth... I know you may want to believe everything that you hear. But the women sited in the study... the women who are in prison system... are not entitled to my trust.
> 
> Claims of abuse are not always caused by abuse. Some people, men and women, suffer from psychologic problems that cause them to lie about such things. People suffering from histrionic personality disorder and/or borderline personality disorder can pass a polygraph with their lies. They have an inherent need to seek attention and they are often so in tune with their own fantasies that they believe them. The roots of these disorders is thought to be entirely chemical so the idea that they're only messed up because daddy beat them or the neighbor fondled them just doesn't follow. Any claims must be verified carefully, (seriously there are all kinds of ways to verify physical and sexual abuse the idea that no one recognizes suspicious behaviour/injuries in hindsite is balderdash in fact you have to be more careful about the power of suggestion when you interview people about the distant past) because of the nature of the illness.


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## ToniTails (Oct 7, 2009)

i have several very clear memories that i've always known were real but didn't understand, until i was older, exactly what was going on--- then i have the nightmares, and fuzzy memories that i'm not sure about--- considering i was 4 in my first real and clear memory, it makes sense that there are some that are a bit hazy

as a fellow survivor, i applaud your courage here and for facing up the fact that it wasnt just imagination- that's really hard because its so much more comforting to hope that it is

hugs!




katorade said:


> Balderdash? _Balderdash?!?_ Let me tell you a little story from my own personal experience. I was molested when I was a child. For 9 years I thought it was just a terrible dream I'd had or my overactive imagination playing tricks on me because it was never, ever acknowledged by my family or the police or anyone else. I thought I just had a sick, twisted imagination. Then when I was 16, after I couldn't get it out of my head all those years, I asked my mother about it and she started to cry, as she had hoped it was something that happened so long ago when I was young that I might not remember or comprehend it happening, and they didn't want to put me through more trauma of reliving it after it happened. Well it did happen, and it took me NINE YEARS to actually know that.
> 
> Do you know how many women don't report sexual abuse because they feel shame about it? Because they think that somehow they could have prevented it? Do you know how many children are abused and don't tell anyone because they think THEY'VE done something wrong?
> 
> ...


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> Are you a doctor? Seems that Lisa may have said that you are, but your profile claims "network administrator". Dog help us all if you really are in a helping profession.
> 
> What you've failed to mention is that the percentage of the population suffering from a personality disorder, specifically one that would cause them to lie (far less, an ability to pass a lie detector test) , is very, very, VERY VERY low. So low, in fact, that I'm inclined to believe my clients when I hear stories of abuse or neglect, up to and including women who did time (and a statistically significant percentage are women who were actually PUSHED to a breaking point and a crime of passion, mostly by an abusive fuckwad of a husband or boyfriend). Or they're victim to a criminal justice system that isn't educated in the area of spousal abuse and post-traumatic stress disorder.
> 
> ...


 

I haven't failed to mention anything other than my educated opinion. I understand that you as a social worker feel the need to accept claims of current abuse but what about claims of past abuse... because that is after all what we're talking about. 

Coming to me in a professional capacity with an ongoing situation is a lot different than coming to me with ancient repressed memories of abuse that can't be verified. As a social worker you should know pretty well what it means when someone comes to you way after the fact looking for assistance because as a result of something that happened twenty years ago they have managed to screw up their life... you can only deal with current events. Ancient allegations from a strung out prostitute don't mean squat in the legal system.


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## TraciJo67 (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> I haven't failed to mention anything other than my educated opinion. I understand that you as a social worker feel the need to accept claims of current abuse but what about claims of past abuse... because that is after all what we're talking about.
> 
> Coming to me in a professional capacity with an ongoing situation is a lot different than coming to me with ancient repressed memories of abuse that can't be verified. As a social worker you should know pretty well what it means when someone comes to you way after the fact looking for assistance because as a result of something that happened twenty years ago they have managed to screw up their life... you can only deal with current events. Ancient allegations from a strung out prostitute don't mean squat in the legal system.


 
Actually, I deal with both past and current events, because many of my clients are hopelessly stuck in the past and cannot move forward without freeing themselves of past trauma.

Second, your last sentence tells me all that I need to know about you (as if I hadn't already caught a whiff from your very first post).

I never do this -- and I mean NEVER, because I enjoy trolls and drolls just as much as I enjoy witty, intelligent conversations. I meant that. I follow the trolls around the board, in fact. They amuse me. You aren't, however, a troll. You are much worse than that, and I can't -- sincerely, honestly -- CANNOT imagine that I could find any common ground with you at all. So. Plonk. Ignore. Indigestion, solved. Now, if only I can get the rest of the "pack 'o whingers and whiners" to follow suit so I don't have to see you quoted. I've a feeling 99.998% of what you're saying is intended to inflame and provoke, and you don't seem to care at all that the subject matter is personal, painful, and very traumatic to a lot of people who have in fact been victims of abuse. 

Oh, wait. Maybe you *do* get it. But then, you can dismiss it as "emotion based" and "illogical" ... right?


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## katorade (Oct 7, 2009)

You're still completely ignoring the point.


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

katorade said:


> Balderdash? _Balderdash?!?_ Let me tell you a little story from my own personal experience. I was molested when I was a child. For 9 years I thought it was just a terrible dream I'd had or my overactive imagination playing tricks on me because it was never, ever acknowledged by my family or the police or anyone else. I thought I just had a sick, twisted imagination. Then when I was 16, after I couldn't get it out of my head all those years, I asked my mother about it and she started to cry, as she had hoped it was something that happened so long ago when I was young that I might not remember or comprehend it happening, and they didn't want to put me through more trauma of reliving it after it happened. Well it did happen, and it took me NINE YEARS to actually know that.
> 
> Do you know how many women don't report sexual abuse because they feel shame about it? Because they think that somehow they could have prevented it? Do you know how many children are abused and don't tell anyone because they think THEY'VE done something wrong?
> 
> ...



You falsely interpreted the information to mean that men are the only ones who do bad things. You didn't give false information. You just put it forth a thesis that was totally unsupported. 

When it comes to your abuse. I'm confused? Somebody else knew and it was documented so how does that prove me wrong? That pretty much proves what I've been saying. If god forbid we knew each other personally, you told me about it, and I asked someone in your family about it someone would remember the story. 

It may be difficult and painful to conceive but people do in fact lie about these sorts of things and far more often than anyone would like to believe. A study presented a few years back to the APA estimated up to 60% of all similar reports to state and county agencies cannot be substantiated in the way you've mentioned above. So why in the world would you believe someone who told you they were a victim of black mass child abuse when they can't substatiate it at all?


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## mossystate (Oct 7, 2009)

Well, I heard that you are just trying to get a rise out of people, so I will just say...wowza. What a game you play, especially your latest sneering over really important and heavy issues. You go, boy!


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## katorade (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> You falsely interpreted the information to mean that men are the only ones who do bad things. You didn't give false information. You just put it forth a thesis that was totally unsupported.
> 
> When it comes to your abuse. I'm confused? Somebody else knew and it was documented so how does that prove me wrong? That pretty much proves what I've been saying. If god forbid we knew each other personally, you told me about it, and I asked someone in your family about it someone would remember the story.
> 
> It may be difficult and painful to conceive but people do in fact lie about these sorts of things and far more often than anyone would like to believe. A study presented a few years back to the APA estimated up to 60% of all similar reports to state and county agencies cannot be substantiated in the way you've mentioned above. So why in the world would you believe someone who told you they were a victim of black mass child abuse when they can't substatiate it at all?



I didn't interpret anything at all. I quoted exactly what was listed, which is that women account for less than 10% of people in prison. People in prison are not there because they acted out of rational behavior, whatever the crime. 

You think I have a problem with unsubstantiated claims? All I did was give you a simple example of how men really aren't as rational as you seem to think they are.
Please show me one shred of proof that men are more rational. Just one. All you seem to have is what people have told you to be true over the years from watching way too much television and buying into stereotypes that women bleed chocolate and rose petals and men bleed power tools and beer. Sand. Your head is in it.

As far as my own abuse, it was never, ever documented. Nobody went to jail. Nobody suffered any consequences besides me. Nobody helped me understand what happened or even asked me if I was alright. It just _happened._ I have spoken with my mother about it once, just to find out the truth. I don't even know his name or where he lives. 

What you're not taking into account is that while a lot of the reported stories of abuse may go unsubstantiated, there are thousands more victims out there that don't even report their abuse or tell anyone about it at all. The women in prison who claim to have been abused? They don't get anything in return. They don't get a lesser sentence or a hand out or a hug. Why would they bother to lie?


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## comaseason (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> I am in fact in the medical profession... I'm an internal medicine specialist, I've been practicing for 11 years and I was formerly a chief resident, primary care provider, and a senior IT consultant at BUMC. I've found administrative IT work at florida hospital is a lot less of a headache.
> 
> I haven't failed to mention anything other than my educated opinion. I understand that you as a social worker feel the need to accept claims of current abuse but what about claims of past abuse... because that is after all what we're talking about.
> 
> Coming to me in a professional capacity with an ongoing situation is a lot different than coming to me with ancient repressed memories of abuse that can't be verified. As a social worker you should know pretty well what it means when someone comes to you way after the fact looking for assistance because as a result of something that happened twenty years ago they have managed to screw up their life... you can only deal with current events. Ancient allegations from a strung out prostitute don't mean squat in the legal system.



The 98% of women/men (I'm assuming your statements apply to both sexes) that you painted with your 2% brush are not strung out prostitutes, they are just normal people trying to deal with their lives.

And I reiterate, unless you specifically are involved in trying to prove allegations in a court of law - NO MAN, WOMAN OR CHILD OWES YOU ANY PROOF OF ABUSE. 

Believe it or don't. But just because you don't believe it, doesn't mean that it doesn't/didn't happen.

There are 2 issues that should not be confused here. 

One is public accusation against someone that needs to be proven.

Then there's everything else.
 Someone coming to another and requesting assistance and in the course of that reveals stories of abuse and someone publicly alleging abuse against a named name are two entirely different things.


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

00 toni lynn 00 said:


> You have no idea how much pain and courage it takes to talk about this kind of abuse--- there is no point in talking to you about it, so i won't bother trying to explain a damn thing



I might have more personal experience than you think. Just because I don't think like you doesn't mean I haven't a clue. 

Mine is well documented by the state of South Carolina. My personal choice has been not to dwell on things that limit the potential of what tomorrow can be.


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## katorade (Oct 7, 2009)

You know what? Don't PM me. I have absolutely nothing to say to you in private. I don't think you're "mean". I think you're ridiculous. Never once did I say anyone should be fawned over. I said you have no reason to call them liars if they have no reason to lie. YOU are the one that brought up people lying about being abused. Even if you unrealistically cut that number of women in prison claiming to be abused in HALF, that's still 25% of their population. That's still horrendous.

Make all of the excuses for yourself that you want. I don't give a crap. Never once did I ask for your pity or condolences or for you to coddle anyone. I asked you for one tiny bit of proof that you STILL haven't bothered to come up with for your ridiculous, outdated claims. Just one. Just a little one! Pretty sure I'll be waiting for that one for a while.


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

katorade said:


> I didn't interpret anything at all. I quoted exactly what was listed, which is that women account for less than 10% of people in prison. People in prison are not there because they acted out of rational behavior, whatever the crime.
> 
> You think I have a problem with unsubstantiated claims? All I did was give you a simple example of how men really aren't as rational as you seem to think they are.
> Please show me one shred of proof that men are more rational. Just one. All you seem to have is what people have told you to be true over the years from watching way too much television and buying into stereotypes that women bleed chocolate and rose petals and men bleed power tools and beer. Sand. Your head is in it.
> ...



the statement was... "rational people don't end up in prison"... more men in prison = men are less rational... you did make it please don't make me go back to your post because I know you know that you made it

why would they bother to lie... I did offer a supposition perhaps because people who suffer with histrionic personality disorder and borderline personality disorder don't just have issues with lieing that also have issues with impulse control that might have landed them in jail in the first place... and in a world where very few people are being encouraged to take full responsibility for themselves we've found one more way to allow them to opt out of taking responsaibility for something they've done that hurt someone else. Very few people in the prison system will admit guilt without offering justification for what they did. And the answer is very rarely the rehabilitated/honest one... because it was easy at the time.


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

katorade said:


> You know what? Don't PM me. I have absolutely nothing to say to you in private. I don't think you're "mean". I think you're ridiculous. Never once did I say anyone should be fawned over. I said you have no reason to call them liars if they have no reason to lie. YOU are the one that brought up people lying about being abused. Even if you unrealistically cut that number of women in prison claiming to be abused in HALF, that's still 25% of their population. That's still horrendous.
> 
> Make all of the excuses for yourself that you want. I don't give a crap. Never once did I ask for your pity or condolences or for you to coddle anyone. I asked you for one tiny bit of proof that you STILL haven't bothered to come up with for your ridiculous, outdated claims. Just one. Just a little one! Pretty sure I'll be waiting for that one for a while.



Sorry I'm just not interested in talking about my personal childhood problems publicly. Hence I pmed you. 

So what do you consider proof? unrelated statistics? would you like to go into infanticide statistics or something? I'm sure those roll in my favor if I like em to.


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## katorade (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> the statement was... "rational people don't end up in prison"... more men in prison = men are less rational... you did make it please don't make me go back to your post because I know you know that you made it



Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that was just an observation that was 

*BLATANTLY F**KING OBVIOUS.


*Are you seriously going to argue that people in prison are there because they acted rationally? Are you going to try and argue some more percentages and say that some of them are probably innocent, or that some are there because, in fact, a woman acted irrationally and made them act irrational in turn? 

Come on.


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## mossystate (Oct 7, 2009)

Speaking ones truth is not dwelling...or being unable to see the beauty in putting one foot in front of the other.

To be suspect of most people speaking those truths, and to think that ' yours ' is more valid, because you, or someone else had the ability or the courage... was not scared shitless... to document it...that is really the height of coldness and arrogance....and fear. There is an odor of..." well I did it this way...so should you ".

I have seen this attitude in people who are not so over what was done to them. Maybe a good cry every now and then is not such a bad thing, and might help a few.


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## katorade (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> Sorry I'm just not interested in talking about my personal childhood problems publicly. Hence I pmed you.
> 
> So what do you consider proof? unrelated statistics? would you like to go into infanticide statistics or something? I'm sure those roll in my favor if I like em to.



Ooh, see, there you go again, trying to offer proof that women are indeed irrational all of the time rather than finding proof of men ALWAYS being rational.

I'm well aware that people can be irrational. I'm well aware that people can be rational. What I want some proof of is MEN being MORE rational than WOMEN by what great standards you seem to think are written in stone somewhere.

Stop blabbering. Get t'huntin'. You're so sure of yourself that it shouldn't take very long.

P.S. You didn't tell me a damn thing about yourself. You told me how apparently someone is irrational because they couldn't "deal" with something painful as well as you. I guess that makes you a winner, right?


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

katorade said:


> Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that was just an observation that was
> 
> *BLATANTLY F**KING OBVIOUS.
> 
> ...



Oh god where do I begin... for starters generally people with lawyers and enough money to buy a decent defense don't end up in jail the same way people who live in a slum and deal drugs and steal because it's the only skill they have. Don't believe it? Apparently you've never seen the difference in action on a drug case. 

As I stated before the statistics concerning people who are in prison have more to do with people who are experiencing poverty and/or don't have the skills to make the money they want to make legally. 

Put it to you this way if you're sixteen years old and you have the choice between working macdonalds and a streetcorner which one looks better in the shorthaul? On the surface which seems more rational? more capitalist?


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

mossystate said:


> Speaking ones truth is not dwelling...or being unable to see the beauty in putting one foot in front of the other.
> 
> To be suspect of most people speaking those truths, and to think that ' yours ' is more valid, because you, or someone else had the ability or the courage... was not scared shitless... to document it...that is really the height of coldness and arrogance....and fear. There is an odor of..." well I did it this way...so should you ".
> 
> I have seen this attitude in people who are not so over what was done to them. Maybe a good cry every now and then is not such a bad thing, and might help a few.



I didn't document it. That's my whole point. Everybody in my family is aware of it it's not a big deep dark secret that nobody knows about. It's just one that we seldom talk about. Mostly because at 34 years of age, something that happened to me at the age of 6 isn't germaine to every conversation. When you go into an emergency room for treatment it's documented. When someone who is not a parent takes custody of you and moves you into another school district it's documented. It's not hard to find or create documentation of abuse or suspicious behaviour especially when it's real. 

I need an aspirin is what I need.


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## Santaclear (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> BTW I'm going to throw myself way out on a ledge and tell you that in my lifetime... especially my internet lifetime I've heard far too many women tell me that they were abused by the men in their lives... and when you ask for proof... any kind of proof... pictures... police reports... emergency room records... a family member or friend who actually coroborates because they were there and saw something... it never materializes... funny that... there are so many well connected white devils out there and all of the women they abused are inside the system.
> 
> I'll concede to you that women are more likely to be at risk in this world. But why is that? Cause I don't think that a rational person can blame every mistake a woman makes on men. You wouldn't give a black man a slap on the hand because he was forced to sell crack. But you're argueing that a black woman is forced to prostitute? Victim mindstates are not often improved by reinforcement.



I need to see some proof....police reports, emergency room records, crime scene photos etc. before I can believe anything in this post, stldpn.


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

katorade said:


> Ooh, see, there you go again, trying to offer proof that women are indeed irrational all of the time rather than finding proof of men ALWAYS being rational.
> 
> I'm well aware that people can be irrational. I'm well aware that people can be rational. What I want some proof of is MEN being MORE rational than WOMEN by what great standards you seem to think are written in stone somewhere.
> 
> ...



see that was what I was looking for an actual idea of what you wanted... here's a blurb about men and women and business world decisions... I'll see what i can do about a full blown study tomorrow... 

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/career_and_jobs/article4308398.ece#


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## katorade (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> Oh god where do I begin... for starters generally people with lawyers and enough money to buy a decent defense don't end up in jail the same way people who live in a slum and deal drugs and steal because it's the only skill they have. Don't believe it? Apparently you've never seen the difference in action on a drug case.
> 
> As I stated before the statistics concerning people who are in prison have more to do with people who are experiencing poverty and/or don't have the skills to make the money they want to make legally.
> 
> Put it to you this way if you're sixteen years old and you have the choice between working macdonalds and a streetcorner which one looks better in the shorthaul? On the surface which seems more rational? more capitalist?



:doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh::doh:


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## katorade (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> see that was what I was looking for an actual idea of what you wanted... here's a blurb about men and women and business world decisions... I'll see what i can do about a full blown study tomorrow...
> 
> http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/career_and_jobs/article4308398.ece#




Yeah, I love how one of the first lines is...



> div#related-article-links p a, div#related-article-links p a:visited { color:#06c; } Download the podcast to hear Professor Baba Shiv discuss how emotions influence decision-making and why* women are better at making decisions than men*


P.S. That's not proof. I want some cold, hard numbers, not just a simple study that "suggests" things based on "research on patients whose emotional circuitry has been damaged and who are unable to make decisions".

P.P.S. It might do you some good to actually read stuff first before posting it when the title sounds decent, then finding out that the article makes a complete mockery out of your original argument about the "fact" that women make terrible decisions based on emotions.


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

Santaclear said:


> I need to see some proof....police reports, emergency room records, crime scene photos etc. before I can believe anything in this post, stldpn.



ok got your browser up? got to the website for Columbia SC's paper "The State" request an archival paper copy of the June 25 1981 paper. Look for the article "Sumter Youth Struck by Family Car" page one...


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

katorade said:


> Yeah, I love how one of the first lines is...
> 
> P.S. That's not proof. I want some cold, hard numbers, not just a simple study that "suggests" things based on "research on patients whose emotional circuitry has been damaged and who are unable to make decisions".
> 
> P.P.S. It might do you some good to actually read stuff first before posting it when the title sounds decent, then finding out that the article makes a complete mockery out of your original argument about the "fact" that women make terrible decisions based on emotions.



Did you actually read it that's the question... it says that women make better decisions because they use their emotions to make them and therefore remain commited to them.... just like the way a few of you are now thoroughly commited to hating me... how ironic

I said women make decisions with their emotions... not that all the decisions were horrible. Please doesn't judge me based on what you "think" I said.


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## Paquito (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> Did you actually read it that's the question... it says that women make better decisions because they use their emotions to make them and therefore remain commited to them.... just like the way a few of you are now thoroughly commited to hating me... how ironic
> 
> I said women make decisions with their emotions... not that all the decisions were horrible. Please doesn't judge me based on what you "think" I said.



So...women are better at making decisions because they use their emotions?

And yet they are irrational for using their emotions?

*Pick a mother******* lane*


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## katorade (Oct 7, 2009)

Please. If for 5 seconds anyone thought you were being complimentary, this thread wouldn't have made it past page 4.


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## Fascinita (Oct 7, 2009)

Stlpngd:

Man, you are hardcore. And you look so cuddly in your picture, too. *shakes head*

Anyway, I'm sorry you were struck by your family's car (that's what I'm inferring from your post above--I'm too pressed for time now to read whatever account of what happened to you may have been recorded in this thread earlier.)

As for everything else, and your opinions of what proof is necessary for establishing the truth of abuse... Who _cares_ what _you_ think? The justice system doesn't turn on what you say, fortunately. *shrug* The idea of "it's only her word against her abuser's" has been used to discredit victims of violence in the past (preventing victims from getting justice), but fortunately juries in general aren't so biased or naive in this day and age. Nor are victims. There are plenty of ways to document domestic abuse in an age of camera phones and instant communications. That people aren't willing to engage with you, a categorical disbeliever, proves what? That they don't want to waste their time or yours? Who are _you_ that you require proof of anything? The law?

*musses your hair*

Have a good day, sir.


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

comaseason said:


> The 98% of women/men (I'm assuming your statements apply to both sexes) that you painted with your 2% brush are not strung out prostitutes, they are just normal people trying to deal with their lives.
> 
> And I reiterate, unless you specifically are involved in trying to prove allegations in a court of law - NO MAN, WOMAN OR CHILD OWES YOU ANY PROOF OF ABUSE.
> 
> ...



I'm talking about your average third date nutjob who out of the blue tells you that her three older brother's gang banged her. I'm talking about that woman who sidles up to me in the bar and talks to me for thirty minutes about how she just got out of an abusive relationship. I'm talking about the average online person I don't really know who pops up in a chat room talking about how her father sodomized her with a steak knife. There are things that are impolite to tell people too quickly... and lies are always impolite.

I don't believe them. 
I don't find them worthy of the attention and sympathy that they are desperately craving. 
And if you think that I'm in some kind of minority when it comes to my experiences I'm just not sure where you've been.


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

free2beme04 said:


> So...women are better at making decisions because they use their emotions?
> 
> And yet they are irrational for using their emotions?
> 
> *Pick a mother******* lane*



we're talking about business decisions... and in business... sometimes the wrong decisive choice still works itself out... did you read it?


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

katorade said:


> Please. If for 5 seconds anyone thought you were being complimentary, this thread wouldn't have made it past page 4.



No actually the whole rational decision thing started around page 8... at first I was being lambasted because I felt people had a right to have emotions independent of their significant other... you can go back thru the 45 messages or take my word I don't care... it's just gotten way off topic... and if you read... i've said it several times... emotions aren't bad... they are a way of making decisions... they just aren't the way that men make decisions...


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## Fascinita (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> I don't believe them.
> I don't find them worthy of the attention and sympathy that they are desperately craving.
> And if you think that I'm in some kind of minority when it comes to my experiences I'm just not sure where you've been.




Hi, stelpgf:

I don't believe you. I don't find you worthy of the attention and sympathy that you are desperately craving. Please stop clamoring for more.

And if you think I'm in some kind of minority when it comes to what I'm saying, I'm just not sure where your mind is.


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## Paquito (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> we're talking about business decisions... and in business... sometimes the wrong decisive choice still works itself out... did you read it?



But this isn't a business forum, it's a forum about everyday life. We didn't ask for business statistics, it was asked to find hard-core proof that men are more rational than women. Not in the business field, not in the medical field, in everyday life.

And if women make better choices in business, I'd think that would mean that they are capable of making *rational* choices in all situations. It does take a certain level of rationality to make a benificial decision, no?


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> Stlpngd:
> 
> Man, you are hardcore. And you look so cuddly in your picture, too. *shakes head*
> 
> ...



Character still has everything to do with whether or not the police dept or a DA will pursue a case and win it... witness the whole stripper/prostitute fiasco at Duke a few years back. We publicly crucified those boys and their families based on a less than credible witness. Tell me that was fair when they compelled 46 guys many who weren't even at the party to give dna samples.

PS I am cuddly but I am attached to someone I can't cuddle with yet.


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## comaseason (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> I'm talking about your average third date nutjob who out of the blue tells you that her three older brother's gang banged her. I'm talking about that woman who sidles up to me in the bar and talks to me for thirty minutes about how she just got out of an abusive relationship. I'm talking about the average online person I don't really know who pops up in a chat room talking about how her father sodomized her with a steak knife. There are things that are impolite to tell people too quickly... and lies are always impolite.
> 
> I don't believe them.
> I don't find them worthy of the attention and sympathy that they are desperately craving.
> And if you think that I'm in some kind of minority when it comes to my experiences I'm just not sure where you've been.



What I'm trying to tell you is those people that you're speaking of ARE the 2%. Abuse is way more prevalent than any statistic ever says. I personally believe that the majority go quietly about living their lives and don't do the "impolite" things you're talking about.

Just because someone doesn't handle an experience the way that you do, doesn't mean that they are lying about their experiences. Some people lack social skills. I work with a woman that in a work setting told us about how someone broke into her house and attacked her. It was an incredibly inappropriate time and place to bring up such a thing - but that doesn't mean that she's lying, and it also doesn't mean that she's trying to garner sympathy. And just because you may have come across a few people that may have been less than truthful doesn't mean that the majority of undocumented cases are. 

Everyone is individual and unique. Just because one case of abuse may be documented doesn't make that person's experience or coping skills more valid than someone's abuse that wasn't. And while you may have been able to put things in the past and move on, it isn't as easy for some people - and I hope you realize how callous you sound when you imply that there is some kind of standard time period in which it's acceptable to emotional or affected by one's experiences.

You don't have to show sympathy. But you also don't have to show disdain either. My experiences are no more valid than yours and yours no more valid than Katorade's and Katorade's no more valid than mine. What I'm reading in your posts is an inherent lack of respect for undocumented abuse AND those that deal with abuse differently than the way you think it should be dealt with.


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## katorade (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> they just aren't the way that men make decisions...



And here is where your logic sprouted wings and a rainbow colored horn and flew out of the window, farting showtunes the entire way.


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

free2beme04 said:


> But this isn't a business forum, it's a forum about everyday life. We didn't ask for business statistics, it was asked to find hard-core proof that men are more rational than women. Not in the business field, not in the medical field, in everyday life.
> 
> And if women make better choices in business, I'd think that would mean that they are capable of making *rational* choices in all situations. It does take a certain level of rationality to make a benificial decision, no?



lol it's a blurb on a podcast from a tenured professor at stanford... it supports what I've said about how women make decisions with their emotions. In point of fact the fact that they make decisions with their emotions is noted as a handicap when it comes to professional relationships. listen to the podcast or read the blurb. It is there. 

It's not a scientific study just another educated opinion that everyone here hates.

I'm tired I'm heading home... you read it and figure it out


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

comaseason said:


> What I'm trying to tell you is those people that you're speaking of ARE the 2%. Abuse is way more prevalent than any statistic ever says. I personally believe that the majority go quietly about living their lives and don't do the "impolite" things you're talking about.
> 
> Just because someone doesn't handle an experience the way that you do, doesn't mean that they are lying about their experiences. Some people lack social skills. I work with a woman that in a work setting told us about how someone broke into her house and attacked her. It was an incredibly inappropriate time and place to bring up such a thing - but that doesn't mean that she's lying, and it also doesn't mean that she's trying to garner sympathy. And just because you may have come across a few people that may have been less than truthful doesn't mean that the majority of undocumented cases are.
> 
> ...



Undocumented abuse from unreliable sources. Yes I have disdain. I've yet to pass judgement about who is reliable here. Only the fact that women in the prison system don't seem very reliable. I've had people tell me bold print abject falsehoods right before telling me they've been abused. And if it'd been just once in my life that I ran into someone that disturbed I might be cautiously optimistic that they are the minority in the world. But given the fact that I've had more than one woman tell me more than a few stories about their imaginary husbands and request days off to spend on their "second honeymoon" in a work setting I'm thinking there are a lot of very lonely screwed up women out there. 

must go home...


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> Hi, stelpgf:
> 
> I don't believe you. I don't find you worthy of the attention and sympathy that you are desperately craving. Please stop clamoring for more.
> .



I'll ignore you if you ignore me... deal?


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## comaseason (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> Undocumented abuse from unreliable sources. Yes I have disdain. I've yet to pass judgement about who is reliable here. Only the fact that women in the prison system don't seem very reliable.



So the woman sidling up to you in a bar was in prison? The person online was in prison? You dated a woman 3 times that was in prison?

How is an average person that you meet deemed an "unreliable" source?

Because quite frankly I'm confused, you say you're talking about one thing and then give examples that have nothing to do with the thing you're talking about.


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## stldpn (Oct 7, 2009)

comaseason said:


> So the woman sidling up to you in a bar was in prison? The person online was in prison? You dated a woman 3 times that was in prison?
> 
> How is an average person that you meet deemed an "unreliable" source?
> 
> Because quite frankly I'm confused, you say you're talking about one thing and then give examples that have nothing to do with the thing you're talking about.



Have you ever met someone who would lie about what they had for lunch? I have. That's how you cross into my face to face... "I don't trust anything you say... ever." region.


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## Paquito (Oct 7, 2009)

I'd just like to note that I find it interesting that someone so callous about this abuse issue was chastising all of us for being unsympathetic to the OP.

Interesting...


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## joswitch (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> lol it's a blurb on a podcast from a tenured professor at stanford... it supports what I've said about how *women make decisions with their emotions.* In point of fact the fact that they make decisions with their emotions is noted as a handicap when it comes to professional relationships. listen to the podcast or read the blurb. It is there.
> 
> It's not a scientific study just another educated opinion that everyone here hates.
> 
> I'm tired I'm heading home... you read it and figure it out



Evidence suggests - *all people make their decisions with their emotions *and rationality is a thin overpaper of post-the-event justification that comes later.
I read a bit of research somewhere (can't remember where right now) where they had a scanner on folks brains. They had an arbitrary test that involved pressing a button. And cameras on the subjects (male and female as I recall). People's fingers began to move towards the button that they intended to, and then did, press - BEFORE - the cerebral cortex lit up. Decisions were made in the lower, emotional part(s) of the brain. (Linked point - men suffering from low T often become very indecisive.)

Oh and you're "dealing crack" example. Might not be "rational" in the sense of best for that individual over his own entire life. But as an evolutionary strategy? Well: only 40% of men that ever existed are represented in the genes of the existing population. In contrast to a MUCH greater % of the women that ever existed. Dudes are way more at risk of "losing out" in the genetic race to make offspring. And the factor strongest connected to a human males chance of finding a mate and producing offspring? *Status*. Status in his immediate society. If his immediate society is Harvard that might be getting a PhD and a tenure. If his immediate society is the bad bits of say - Detroit - that might be stabbing the local pimp and taking over his patch. Nasty, yes. Rational, no - not really - these are pretty much "gland-driven" decisions. Evolutionary successful? Probably. Count the baby mommas with the dads in prison. Sad but true.

Everywhere you go you can hear smart folks saying "Ohhh, I'm not sure if we should have kids???" and dumb folks singing "Happy 30th Birthday Granma!"


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## Fascinita (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> I'll ignore you if you ignore me...



I don't believe you. I can't believe a word you say.

It's like you're typing, and I can't believe even the _letters_ you use. Or the punctuation.

Nope.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 7, 2009)

stldpn said:


> Kids lie, teenagers lie, grown women lie, taking an unproven allegation and running with it isn't fair to anyone.



Wow, only kids, teenagers and then grown women lie....in that order? 


We have it right here....menz never do anything wrong because they are 100% rational....all the time.....like the example given now of a guy that keeps arguing about 10+ pages worth on an internet forum because he doesn't want strangers to think badly of him. 
Well that or....he thinks he is right and it's important that people on net know he is right. 
Logic at work....right now....right before your eyes.....

Speaking of eyes....I accidentally put stoopiddikk's out and he cried....but just with the eye he had left...
Sorry dawg........I was turned on......see what you do to me with your logic? :blush: :bow:


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## mimosa (Oct 8, 2009)

Tau said:


> I don't think your problem is the weight - I think your problem is that you're basing your self esteem on other people's opinions. That's dangerous - stop doing it.



*Yes! I totally agree with you. But it's not just fat people that go through it. I've seen my 99 pound sister in the same situation. She totally based her self esteem on what people thought. I also did this for many years. People in my life made me feel that I had to be thin to deserve love and admiration. I believed it for many years. But I realized that it's more important how you feel about yourself. When I started changing how I view myself....guys started hitting on me here. This is supposed to be one of the "skinniest" towns in the US. 
Most of my friends are men. Most of them have told me they rather be with a woman that feels good about herselfNO matter what size she is.*


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## tjw1971 (Oct 8, 2009)

I, too, think Tau hit on the most important point.

Most of my life, I've found larger or "thick" women more attractive than skinny women - despite most of my friends thinking the opposite.

That being said though, some of the *worst* dates I ever had were with bigger gals who were really self-loathing or self-conscious about their weight. Here I was, one of the guys that's supposedly "hard to find", who is actually "turned on" by a woman being larger than average, and I couldn't express any of those interests to them. One woman actually got mad at me, and started sending me several heated emails, telling me something must be wrong with me, to actually find it "attractive" to look the way she looked. Others just shut out any "weight positive" comments I made, and kept telling me how they were dieting or what-not. (Isn't that about as ridiculous as being a blonde, dating a guy who says he prefers blondes, so the woman runs out the next day with hair dye and dyes her hair some other color?)

I have to say, the idea that "a lot of guys out there actually like big women" is NOT just some "Internet thing" .... but perhaps many of us wind up here because we're having just as hard a time in "real life" finding heavier/thicker women who are actually HAPPY with their bodies, vs. all the ones who act like it's a curse or something.....


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## TraciJo67 (Oct 8, 2009)

tjw1971 said:


> I, too, think Tau hit on the most important point.
> 
> Most of my life, I've found larger or "thick" women more attractive than skinny women - despite most of my friends thinking the opposite.
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, it isn't so simple as finding a good FA to admire one's curves. I've seen so many remarks from men who seem to think that they can "rescue" a woman from self-loathing. Not going to happen. Finding a man, good or otherwise, really does nothing to fix an unhappy woman's self esteem. TJW, I'm curious: If there is any part of yourself that you dislike ... would anyone be able to "love" you out of it? 

The sad reality is that some women aren't going to like their fat bodies, and they aren't going to be preached/complimented/worshipped out of that mindset. They will make it to a better place on their own (whether that be through accomplishing a weight loss goal or learning to accept & love themselves as they are) or ... not. There's not much, if anything, that you can actually do to change that. Finding someone "ridiculous" because she can't be talked into loving herself as YOU want her to ... just isn't very productive, to say the least.


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## tjw1971 (Oct 9, 2009)

I think part of the problem is, you don't usually know a woman has those types of feelings about her body until you're already dating her for a little while. Granted, *some* women make it really clear that they're unhappy with their body, right from the start. But frankly, I wouldn't be interested in dating anyone who came across as being that negative. So yeah, instead, I've wound up with a few who unloaded all of that on me after a few dates. (You know, after you get past the initial "small talk" and real basic questions you tend to have on the first couple dates.)

As for myself? Sure, I have parts of my body I wish were different. But I'm really the type who has always been more interested in "mental" activities than "physical" ones. I never liked sports, growing up, for example. I'm far more interested in things like cars, music, political discussion and intelligent debate, computers, or good movies. Therefore, I temper my dislike of those things (EG. my pale skin that sunburns too easily, or the fact that if I gain any weight, it's very disproportionate so I end up with a belly and thin legs) with the reality that it's all "good enough" for other people out there. If I cared that much about improving it, where would I really be? Putting on that fake tan spray or lotion all the time? Going to the gym, doing mindless exercises I really disliked for hours, to ensure I stayed as "fit" looking as my genetics would allow? So no, I consciously decide it's not worth it to me.

I guess that's the real crux of the issue to me. I don't have to "love" certain aspects of my own body to enjoy the fact that someone else does. It really DOES seem ridiculous to me to refuse to accept the reality that others may find things about you attractive that you never really cared for yourself.

I've had prematurely gray hair since I was 20 or 21, for another example. Although it felt awkward at first and I was unhappy about it, I started discovering that SOME women out there really liked it. To this day, I'd have to say that personally, I'd prefer it was still dark brown like it used to be instead of gray. I'm not even 40 yet, and I think it makes it hard for a lot of people to accurately guess my age. But I never try to dye it or anything, because again, I realize it's part of who I am -- and a minority of women out there really find it attractive.




TraciJo67 said:


> Unfortunately, it isn't so simple as finding a good FA to admire one's curves. I've seen so many remarks from men who seem to think that they can "rescue" a woman from self-loathing. Not going to happen. Finding a man, good or otherwise, really does nothing to fix an unhappy woman's self esteem. TJW, I'm curious: If there is any part of yourself that you dislike ... would anyone be able to "love" you out of it?
> 
> The sad reality is that some women aren't going to like their fat bodies, and they aren't going to be preached/complimented/worshipped out of that mindset. They will make it to a better place on their own (whether that be through accomplishing a weight loss goal or learning to accept & love themselves as they are) or ... not. There's not much, if anything, that you can actually do to change that. Finding someone "ridiculous" because she can't be talked into loving herself as YOU want her to ... just isn't very productive, to say the least.


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## bbwjessiestroxxx (Oct 10, 2009)

Hey,

I dont feel sorry for anyone.

I stopped being skinny in 10th grade, I mean I was 5ft8 and 190 pounds and a pure tomboy black clothes and all.

But now Im a 5ft8 300 pound goddess. I feel sexy,look sexy and get attn now and than. I love the guys who look at me and say hi especially when Im wearing my Hockey jersey and my cut off sexy jeans shorts.

I mean every one wants to be admire but I must say how the world sees you is about How you see yourself. I have the I dont care what others think attitide along with the sexy mysterious way about me. I can go out with dress down or dress up make up or no make up and still feel top dollar...ALWAYS. 

I must admit I wasnt always like this because I didnt know how to love/like myself But in time you learn and it shows.

I must add 1 more thing B4IGO) I dislike the skinny gals who soon as they get fat become angry because the fellas arnt treating them like skanky arm candy anymore. Self worth isnt determined by how many men turn heads 4 you but by how many times a woman can love herself w/o need of being desired.


Thanx :kiss2:


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## AuntHen (Oct 13, 2009)

Splatacaster said:


> Sounds like there may be a confidence issue at play here.



agreed... i see big, large, huge women at my work and in public.. and they are the ones that catch everyones eyes because they dress nice, wear make-up, do their hair and sashay those big bodies like they are the sexiest things on earth! 

then you have the other end of the spectrum, dress dumpy, no make-up, messy or hair in a bun all the time, slumped shoulders etc... 

when i dont try and look my best and present myself as confident and beautiful to my own self, i feel dumpy and I think it shows to all those around me. 

One day I dressed up a little more than usual and the head of our dept even made a comment to me personally about how nice I looked...and I am a BIG woman  and I swear some days when I feel really good about myself and how I look/feel, I catch dudes throwing glances my way, now maybe I just want to think that, but I don't think so


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## AuntHen (Oct 13, 2009)

mimosa said:


> *Yes! I totally agree with you. But it's not just fat people that go through it. I've seen my 99 pound sister in the same situation. She totally based her self esteem on what people thought. I also did this for many years. People in my life made me feel that I had to be thin to deserve love and admiration. I believed it for many years. But I realized that it's more important how you feel about yourself. When I started changing how I view myself....guys started hitting on me here. This is supposed to be one of the "skinniest" towns in the US.
> Most of my friends are men. Most of them have told me they rather be with a woman that feels good about herself……NO matter what size she is.*



mimosa I hear you! I had a worse self esteem when I was about 70 lbs less than now and men didn't ask me out when I was skinnier either. Why would they ask out some slender girl who always hid in baggy clothes and didn't like herself??!!  

I have been hit on more fat, than I ever did slender.. and i KNOW it has to do with ME and my self confidence and what I think about myself!


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## Fuzzy Necromancer (Oct 14, 2009)

stldpn said:


> Undocumented abuse from unreliable sources. Yes I have disdain. I've yet to pass judgement about who is reliable here. Only the fact that women in the prison system don't seem very reliable. I've had people tell me bold print abject falsehoods right before telling me they've been abused. And if it'd been just once in my life that I ran into someone that disturbed I might be cautiously optimistic that they are the minority in the world. But given the fact that I've had more than one woman tell me more than a few stories about their imaginary husbands and request days off to spend on their "second honeymoon" in a work setting I'm thinking there are a lot of very lonely screwed up women out there.



Okay.

What is your gremplorking point?!

Please, connect your thoughts! These sentences don't belong in the same post! What does caustious optimism have to do with imaginary husbands and attempting to skimp on work?


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## Flutterby68 (Oct 14, 2009)

Even at my current size, I still get male attention - a lot of it. Not all of it positive, but I sure don't expect it all to be.

I think the OP has a problem with attitude, not with weight. I had a friend ask me once why I always got noticed by men but she didn't, and we were the same size.

I told her it came down to something very simple. She is a fat woman. I am a woman who happens to be fat. I don't let my weight define who I am, my weight is merely a PART of who I am.


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## stldpn (Oct 14, 2009)

free2beme04 said:


> I'd just like to note that I find it interesting that someone so callous about this abuse issue was chastising all of us for being unsympathetic to the OP.
> 
> Interesting...




I'm not offering anyone a "free pass" but with all due respect. When you talk about these people who are victims, I think you need to understand that more than one person can be hurt in a situation of physical, sexual or emotional abuse. And when the allegations turn out to be a lot of bunk, there's no real way to repair a reputation sodden by someone who was full of shit even after they are found out. As much as I keep getting the question of "why would a woman lie?" I don't have any concrete answer for it other than the obvious one that "for some people the truth is a very abstract concept." 

On the other hand, I know that people lie or misremember for a number of reasons. Not all of them are self serving, but many of them are. There is significant evidence that "false memories" are more common than we once thought previously. People are apparently highly prone to suggestion of both good and bad things in their pasts. We've known about the power of psychiatric suggestion as early as Freud. 

It occurs to me that some people here may be able to look at this from a personal perspective in this way. Have you ever sat down with your parents and siblings and discussed an event that took place during your childhood? The key events may be the same, but the interpretation of other people's emotions or the details of the event may vary greatly.

Here's a link concerning recovered memories. It primarily deals with people who participated in regression therapy but recently (and I beg your pardon because I'm unable to locate it at the moment) there have been studies dealing with the power of suggestion in a non-clinical setting with people who are not hypnotized. The ability of the test coordinator to implant or suggest innocuous memories over the course of a few discussions was astounding. 

http://faculty.washington.edu/eloftus/Articles/sciam.htm

Anyway, the problem is that once an allegation of that magnitude is made it's very difficult to remove all suspicion if an assumption has been accepted without proof. Families and careers are broken in ways that are beyond complete repair. 

These occurrences that everyone else appears to think are few and far between don't seem that way to me. My interest in the whole thing is far from callous, I'm simply interested in making sure that we don't crucify innocent people, and even more so the wives, children, parents, siblings, and other assorted family members who share a last name and may be permanently branded thru no fault of their own by a rather ridiculous rush to believe accusations that may not be credible or accusers with ulterior motives. 

People who go off half cocked on issues of abuse don't do any great service to the abused, society at large, or the interest of fairness. If I asked someone who was accused and proclaimed their innocence to submit proof that the incident in question didn't occur very few people would be on my case. though lets be honest isn't it harder to disprove unfounded, ancient, hazy allegations? The double standard is rather appalling I think. The idea that people should be allowed to walk around using allegations of abuse as a form of slander with complete impunity is beyond repugnant.


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## Carrie (Oct 14, 2009)

You're killing me, Smalls.


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## Weeze (Oct 14, 2009)

Carrie said:


> You're killing me, Smalls.



Why won't it let me rep you?!?! Thanks for the chuckles, pretty lady


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## stldpn (Oct 14, 2009)

Fuzzy Necromancer said:


> Okay.
> 
> What is your gremplorking point?!
> 
> Please, connect your thoughts! These sentences don't belong in the same post! What does caustious optimism have to do with imaginary husbands and attempting to skimp on work?



I worked with a woman who had an imaginary husband. That's a complete thought. Maybe I'm causticly optomistic, but I think she was a bit wrong in the head.


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## cheekyjez (Oct 14, 2009)

stldpn said:


> If I asked someone who was accused and proclaimed their innocence to submit proof that the incident in question didn't occur very few people would be on my case.


You're saying that people support guilty-unless-proven-innocent?

From some statistics I'm pulling out of my arse, 85% of domestic abuse court cases come down to he-said-she-said arguments, and of those 65% are thrown out because of a lack of compelling evidence that abuse took place. The most common punishment is a restraining order, which isn't actually a punishment, given that the relationship is not salvageable by this point. 

As an exercise to the reader, I'd ask you to think about this:

How much more (or less) harmful is abuse to a victim than a false accusation to a spouse?

The question ties into page 3 of this thread, where you suggested that the ribbing an FA might get from his friends is comparable to the abuse BBWs get from strangers. It makes me wonder whether you have a sense of scale.


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## stldpn (Oct 16, 2009)

cheekyjez said:


> You're saying that people support guilty-unless-proven-innocent?
> 
> From some statistics I'm pulling out of my arse, 85% of domestic abuse court cases come down to he-said-she-said arguments, and of those 65% are thrown out because of a lack of compelling evidence that abuse took place. The most common punishment is a restraining order, which isn't actually a punishment, given that the relationship is not salvageable by this point.
> 
> ...



Well since we're being perfectly honest... I've never seen a restraining order do anything but provoke an abuser. Women who think that peice of paper provides any sort of protection are fooling themselves. If it was my sister or mother and they were serious about getting away (which lets be honest here a lot of women end up reconciling despite the danger to themselves and their children) moving into a women's shelter, a motel or an apartment for three to six months and taking an loa from their job would be my recommendation. Not because they deserve to be uprooted but because they deserve to live. And when you weigh those up I think the inconvenience is far outweighed. 

On the other hand a false allegation of abuse can go a long way toward screwing over a man/woman who has been unjustly accused. 

Did you know... even during a temporary restraining order several of your rights are forfeit. 

If you work or park within the same building you can expect there's a strong possibility you'll lose your job. 

Your second amendment right is stripped, and any firearms you own can be confiscated for up to six months.

Your right to refuse search during traffic stops is waved.

If you have children, it's unlikely you'll be able to arrange visitation for up to 90 days. And when you do get it, even if the injunction is dropped you can expect to pay for a supervised visit.

From there on out the fact that a preliminary domestic injunction was placed on you appears on court records meaning that you lose the ability to even apply for military, federal, and state jobs. Any county or municipal jobs involving carrying a firearm, public health or driving a take home vehicle are gone permanently even if the order is dropped. Jobs in the private sector that involve federal contracts or grants could be closed to you. 

Not to mention the fact that from here on out depending on your level responsibility within a company you can expect to explain one sour relationship during background checks for up to ten years.

And the things I've listed above can be caused by three to five pages of paperwork that only need to be notarized and entered into the court record. Maximum of three hours effort on the part of an accuser who has placed items into court records that they will never be asked to back up with more than their signature and a possible lifetime of headaches for the accused.


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## stldpn (Oct 16, 2009)

cheekyjez said:


> How much more (or less) harmful is abuse to a victim than a false accusation to a spouse?
> 
> The question ties into page 3 of this thread, where you suggested that the ribbing an FA might get from his friends is comparable to the abuse BBWs get from strangers. It makes me wonder whether you have a sense of scale.



As far as I'm concerned it's not really a matter of scale... Everyone keeps saying victim as if the acuser is in fact a bonafide victim. And that's where I think we're all hopping on the freight train to stupid way too fast. When i say it's an unsubstantiated allegation fueled by morons I'm talking about things like this http://undergroundbastard.blogspot.com/2009/09/about-glen-beck-rape-and-murder-of.html and you have people that believe it or at least want to believe it without a second thought about how inflamatory it's designed to be. Granted he's a public figure, but seriously do you see how stupid it is to feed into something that was written as a definite without any fact checking http://unreasonablysafe.com/2009/09/01/beckrape/.

I think I've got a reasonable sense of scale. Though i've no interest in comparing war stories, however, I find it ridiculous that there is a complete denial of the fact that a FA might have negative feelings about someone shitting on him because of who he chooses to love. The idea that you have to be fat in order to be affected by the slings and arrows is narrowminded. the you've got to man up and rise above it approach offered up by some of these ladies just doesn't cut it for me.


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## Inhibited (Oct 16, 2009)

I find it ridiculous that there is a complete denial of the fact that a FA might have negative feelings about someone shitting on him because of who he chooses to love. The idea that you have to be fat in order to be affected by the slings and arrows is narrowminded. the you've got to man up and rise above it approach offered up by some of these ladies just doesn't cut it for me.[/QUOTE]

I don't know what is going on between yourself and the other posters, i haven't read all the posts, but i do agree with you on the above. Well at least i think i do, are you saying that an FA has a right to worry about what others may think of him when he dates someone who is overweight? isn't this natural in the beginning and maybe he isn't worried about himself he maybe worried about how you feel when someone makes a fat remark.

Girls don't you worry about meeting his family and friends for the first time, even though they may know he is an FA aren't you still worried about them being negative. I know that this isn't a fat issue even my friends get nervous about meeting a boyfriends family and friends due to what they might think of them. Doesn't an FA have a right to feel this way as well? maybe i have stldpn post all wrong and this isn't what he meant at all.


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## cheekyjez (Oct 16, 2009)

stldpn said:


> If it was my sister or mother and they were serious about getting away (which lets be honest here a lot of women end up reconciling despite the danger to themselves and their children) moving into a women's shelter, a motel or an apartment for three to six months and taking an loa from their job would be my recommendation. Not because they deserve to be uprooted but because they deserve to live. And when you weigh those up I think the inconvenience is far outweighed.


So you'd recommend that that 



stldpn said:


> Did you know... even during a temporary restraining order several of your rights are forfeit.


Didn't know. Don't care. If he's innocent, he can clear his name. If he's guilty, 



> If you work or park within the same building you can expect there's a strong possibility you'll lose your job.


Don't care.


> Your second amendment right is stripped, and any firearms you own can be confiscated for up to six months.


Wait - if you're suspected of a violent crime, you're not allowed to own a weapon? STOP THE PRESSES!



> Your right to refuse search during traffic stops is waved.


 OK, this one is a bit far. But still...



> If you have children, it's unlikely you'll be able to arrange visitation for up to 90 days. And when you do get it, even if the injunction is dropped you can expect to pay for a supervised visit.



Here's a thought. To avoid these terrible consequences, DON'T BEAT YOUR WIFE. I know you're terribly concerned about the wrongly accused. False accusations are few and far between, and false CONVICTIONS are even fewer.



> Not to mention the fact that from here on out depending on your level responsibility within a company you can expect to explain one sour relationship during background checks for up to ten years.


Don't beat your wife.



> And the things I've listed above can be caused by three to five pages of paperwork that only need to be notarized and entered into the court record. Maximum of three hours effort on the part of an accuser who has placed items into court records that they will never be asked to back up with more than their signature and a possible lifetime of headaches for the accused.


Saying it doesn't make it so.


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## Still a Skye fan (Oct 16, 2009)

Lolita13 said:


> Yet when I was thin, I had lots of male attention. I am engaged but I never get any looks anymore. I had one guy try and pick me up at a make up counter and thats it .Where are all these Fat admiring men? In fact, all I see is guys not intrestedin me and the guys I knew repulsed at how much I gained. Im sad as hell. I have a pretty face . I dont get the damn your hot and men buying me drinks anymore. Whats up with that. Please dont say its because I have a man, we used to go out when I was thin and men still would talk to me. So I think this liking fat women is BS. I live in the Philadelphia area and guys here do NOT like heavy women. Is this all an internet fantasy?



No, it's not a fantasy or else why do I always see happy looking guys paired off with happy looking gals of ALL sizes whenever I'm out in public doing something?

Dennis


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## Paquito (Oct 16, 2009)

stldpn said:


> I find it ridiculous that there is a complete denial of the fact that a FA might have negative feelings about someone shitting on him because of who he chooses to love. The idea that you have to be fat in order to be affected by the slings and arrows is narrowminded. the you've got to man up and rise above it approach offered up by some of these ladies just doesn't cut it for me.



There is a huge difference in taking an FAs feelings about negative reactions to his *choices* and feeling that the FAs should be mollycoddled and have someone there to hold their hand. Yea, there can be nagative reactions from people by being an FA, but you can get negative reactions from doing anything in life. In case you haven't noticed, there is an FA board here where we can all come together and discuss being fat admirers, but what else do you want us to do? Jesus, next you'll be asking the fat girls (and guys) to be ok with their partner being ashamed to be with them in public and not make a big deal about it.

Newsflash: if you haven't got the balls to happily date a fat person, then stick to skinny people. It's a simple request, really.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 16, 2009)

I'm thinking this might turn into my favorite thread eventually.....


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## Famouslastwords (Oct 17, 2009)

free2beme04 said:


> Newsflash: if you haven't got the balls to happily date a fat person, then stick to skinny people. It's a simple request, really.




Quoted for truth.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 17, 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOsVohtbgxc


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## Your Plump Princess (Oct 17, 2009)

1) Holy Crap, I can't believe how off-topic this topic has gone. 
2) I'm glad to see it's on getting back On-Topic. 

3, In Response to Original Post) There's a lot of men out there that want bigger women, but have society rearing it's ugly beastly head going "WTF?WTF?NO FAT, NO FAT, FAT AINT THAT, SKINNY IS IN. SKELETON THIN, MAN, SKELETON THIN!" 

But There Are Men out there, I Didn't believe it until I Joined Here. But Man, There are!


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 17, 2009)

You got a cam, Plump Princess? :batting:


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## stldpn (Oct 17, 2009)

Inhibited said:


> I don't know what is going on between yourself and the other posters, i haven't read all the posts, but i do agree with you on the above. Well at least i think i do, are you saying that an FA has a right to worry about what others may think of him when he dates someone who is overweight? isn't this natural in the beginning and maybe he isn't worried about himself he maybe worried about how you feel when someone makes a fat remark.
> 
> Girls don't you worry about meeting his family and friends for the first time, even though they may know he is an FA aren't you still worried about them being negative. I know that this isn't a fat issue even my friends get nervous about meeting a boyfriends family and friends due to what they might think of them. Doesn't an FA have a right to feel this way as well? maybe i have stldpn post all wrong and this isn't what he meant at all.



No you've pretty much got the gist of things right. These ladies don't have any desire to expand their concern and understanding to the men in their lives on this subject. Apparently some of these ladies find it demeaning to accept that other people have feelings and concerns about the way the world will percieve them. But hey don't listen to me.. or side with me... because I'm now officially impolite company.


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## stldpn (Oct 17, 2009)

cheekyjez said:


> So you'd recommend that that
> 
> 
> Didn't know. Don't care. If he's innocent, he can clear his name. If he's guilty,
> ...



I'm sorry you don't get it... I really am... False accusations are rampant I've already produced a study that speculates that up to 60% of accusations made by divorcing spouses are without merit. As sad as it is filing an injunction is a divorce strategy in and of itself. If you think I'm whistling dixie call a divorce lawyer and tell them you have kids and a house you want to keep. They'll be itching for grounds to file an injunction. If you think taking away people's rights just because they're going through a nasty divorce is worthy of merit apparently you've never been there. I pity your naivety if you ever get there.


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## stldpn (Oct 17, 2009)

free2beme04 said:


> There is a huge difference in taking an FAs feelings about negative reactions to his *choices* and feeling that the FAs should be mollycoddled and have someone there to hold their hand. Yea, there can be nagative reactions from people by being an FA, but you can get negative reactions from doing anything in life. In case you haven't noticed, there is an FA board here where we can all come together and discuss being fat admirers, but what else do you want us to do? Jesus, next you'll be asking the fat girls (and guys) to be ok with their partner being ashamed to be with them in public and not make a big deal about it.
> 
> Newsflash: if you haven't got the balls to happily date a fat person, then stick to skinny people. It's a simple request, really.



I've never suggested that they be led around like babes in the woods. I only stated I sympathy for their situation, and a desire to be supportive of a larger scale societal change. If you read anything else into my statement, or based your ideas on what someone said I said that's unfortunate. I never stated that anyone who was ashamed to be seen in public with fat people should date them. 

PS In any relationship it's going to be a give and take anyway... I've dated a woman who didn't appreciate the looks we got in public when I was wearing my old sweatpants. I'm sure that kind of embarassment for a male partner is ok though..


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## AuntHen (Oct 17, 2009)

Tagging on the "..don't have the balls.." comment... (pardon my lazy punctuation)

Truthfully, if you have ANY hesitations and just want to "test the waters" with a fat girl, don't waste your time and for heavens sakes please don't waste HERS!!

If you feel your bros or family will tease or chastise you and you can't be like "tease/chastise away dudes, Mom, Dad etc... these chicks are hot and sweet and plump and pleasant and this is what I like and want", then please do not even approach the idea! It is not fair to you and certainly not fair to the fat girl.

Men who like fat girls want them confident and secure with their body/fatness, right?!

Well we fat women want confident, secure with their choice in women, men!

If I went on a date with a man and I either 1) embarrassed him with some part of my fatness (be it fitting in a booth, huffing and puffing to get up the stairs etc) 2) caught him looking around to make sure people weren't looking at him wierd or making him self conscious... I would end that night quick, sure as shootin'. :doh:

I want him smiling and proud and happy to be with me. He hopefully asked me out because he already thinks I am beautiful and interesting and soooo wants to get to know me better! In public as well as private!! :wubu:

No?? Then hit the curb jack! :bow:


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## roam929r (Oct 17, 2009)

Perception affects everything... from the way we think about ourself to how others receive this self image we have created. Maybe you grew up where fat was unaccepted and now that you are fat your starting to manifest these unwanted feelings which sends out the wrong vibes. Everything is energy and the law of attraction is one of the most powerful laws in the universe.

Focus on the beauty of your body and ignore everything else... do the opinions of others really matter anyway?

Be Happy, fat or thin, it's your choice! No one elses.

Matt


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## Matt L. (Oct 17, 2009)

It's a shame that some people can be so weak that their dating choices are influenced by others. It also shows how tremendously shallow some people can be. Beauty isn't a look on the face but a light in the heart.


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## littlefairywren (Oct 17, 2009)

Matt L. said:


> It's a shame that some people can be so weak that their dating choices are influenced by others. It also shows how tremendously shallow some people can be. *Beauty isn't a look on the face but a light in the heart*.



Last line.....just lovely!


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## Inhibited (Oct 17, 2009)

stldpn said:


> No you've pretty much got the gist of things right. These ladies don't have any desire to expand their concern and understanding to the men in their lives on this subject. Apparently some of these ladies find it demeaning to accept that other people have feelings and concerns about the way the world will percieve them. But hey don't listen to me.. or side with me... *because I'm now officially impolite company*.



lol oh well like someone or hate someone if i agree with them then i will admit it, and if i have the "gist" of what you are saying then sorry everyone but i agree with stldpn.


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## Tracii (Oct 18, 2009)

I rep'd her for you krismiss


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## Archangel (Oct 18, 2009)

Maybe everyone would get along if there were more funions in the world


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## littlefairywren (Oct 18, 2009)

Archangel said:


> Maybe everyone would get along if there were more funions in the world



Can someone explain funions....?


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## Archangel (Oct 18, 2009)

I'd slog back through the 17 pages of angst, as someone posted pictures, but I'm lazy. Basically its a crunchy onion ringed shaped cracker thingee with onion seasoning. But the lack of Funions in Australia proves my point


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## littlefairywren (Oct 18, 2009)

Archangel said:


> I'd slog back through the 17 pages of angst, as someone posted pictures, but I'm lazy. Basically its a crunchy onion ringed shaped cracker thingee with onion seasoning. But the lack of Funions in Australia proves my point



Oh cool....ta


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Oct 18, 2009)

I'll go ahead and do the picture thing again......they are a kind of chip...but oniony and round. They are just as fattening and salty as other chips 

Lack of funyuns in Australia just prove that ya'll don't know good eating  








Some of this "extra goodness" on me came from funyons :batting::happy:


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## ChubbyBlackSista (Oct 18, 2009)

Well Lolita 
You're engaged hon you're not suppose to get looks they probably see that Wedding Ring and see that you're taken and the FA's are out there you just have to go to the right places


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## stldpn (Oct 20, 2009)

Archangel said:


> Maybe everyone would get along if there were more funions in the world



It would make my life easier, and as much as I hate to admit it (because consuming something with that many preservatives is against my religion) they are an oddly comforting snack.


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## snuggletiger (Oct 20, 2009)

This thread is like the bloody train wreck you have to sneak a glance at.


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## stldpn (Oct 20, 2009)

fat9276 said:


> Men who like fat girls want them confident and secure with their body/fatness, right?!



You've lost the idea in the initial posting. Women who are with fat men in public are rarely gawped at and they certainly aren't grilled by their family and friends about why they're dating a fat boy. Women are expected to (stay with me) kiss societal toads and look for internal beauty and potential or if they're shallow lots of money and a huge member. If you saw a skinny blond pushing her date would you have any real question about why she was into his wrinkly behind?

Men are not forgiving with each other. Especially of the things that we don't understand about our friends. Not all people who conform to society are evil, mostly they're just naive and following the easiest path. 

Big guys, when we get a date outside of a place like this, we don't asume that she loves our body. We figure she's going to tolerate and that's about it. Worst case scenario she's going to look at you as a work in progress and try to put you on a diet six months into the relationship. I can't count on one hand the number of women that have told me that my current weight was fine but they were unsure if they would be attracted if I became any bigger. does that make them bad people? It may not have been what I wanted to hear but it was at least honest and decent of them. I don't consider any of them to have been a waste of my time. I don't think that their concerns about my weight damaged me emotionally. 

Maybe the real issue is that BBWs are asking their men to be braver and more secure than they are with their weight. I've heard a lot of talk about how thin men should be secure with their preference, but what is the females responsibility in that? To call him a wimp if he's not totally down with the idea of being picked on and watching his girl being harassed?


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