# Root origin of my attraction to fat women: figured it out



## Sonic Purity (Dec 9, 2021)

Anyone who’s been attracted to fat people and/or being fat themselves has likely been asked something like “Why? What’s the attraction?”, or perhaps internally wondered. After a lifetime of the usual “It’s just how i am”, “I’m made that way”, etc., the origin of this attraction for me (personally and specifically) has come into my awareness.

Something happened when i was an infant, which somehow went Very Wrong for me in terms of my needs being met. I was a normal vaginal birth, and my mother assures me i was breast fed. Stable mid-20th. century U.S. nuclear family: married father and mother, new baby, owned home, father had job. It’s not that my parents made any (known) mistake(s) or that there was something intrinsically wrong with me: it may have just been an unfortunate mismatch. Something related to cuddling, nurturing, and maternal bonding did not work out for me, leaving me with a life-long gaping hole of need/desire for “infinite” soft, warm, loving cuddles.

So why (US | SS)BBW?
When you’re an infant, no matter the adult-judged size of your mother, Mom’s *huge!* And soft. And warm. And loving. And *your source of life, food, security, and all other needs*. Scaled up to adult proportions, very soft, warm, affectionate, loving femme people represent the manifestation of what i as an infant so dearly needed and somehow failed to get (enough of).

This explains almost everything, in terms of my attractions and interactions:

My strong attraction to intelligent, communicative, often powerful (in some way) women: who’s more powerful to a newborn than Mommy?
Extremely powerful attraction to plentiful warm fat softness, anywhere and everywhere on a BBW body: comfort and security!
Why i tend to be deferential/borderline submissive in intimate interpersonal relationships
Strong interest in/attraction to big breasts, with so far unexplored desires for possibly benefitting from an adult nursing relationship. (Human breast milk could be highly beneficial for some of my un-health conditions, the latter of which may have roots back in childhood.)
My sense of ease, comfort, and often security being around fat people (any/no gender, though especially fat women—cis, trans, whatever)
My tendency to want to latch onto fat lovers, seeking the security and comfort of being able to continue sharing physically intimate contact
My interest in affectionate cuddling more than (what most people think of for) sex, with restful, sensual skin-to-skin contact in a friendly, loving context being ideal
Plus likely more things not coming to mind right now. I’ve let this idea marinate in my mind for a couple of months now before posting, hoping the wording will be clearer and better. It will never be optimal.

This does not directly address the lusty/sexual aspects of my powerful life-long attraction to fat women, other than for adults in our culture, it seems most common and easiest to arrange for intimate loving extended-time skin-to-skin contact in sexual-romantic arrangements. Maybe deeper insight into this aspect will be forthcoming, at some point.

If you have thoughts on any of this, or wish to share your own personal insight on the specific root(s) of your fat attraction, i look forward to your posts below. Otherwise, thanks for reading!


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## waldo (Dec 10, 2021)

I agree that big fat mama is someone that you never forget and never leaves your psyche. My own mother actually quizzed me as to whether my inherent attraction to fat women has anything to do with her own rotundness. I think is does to some extent. But that is an oversimplification. It is more likely that having a fat mama is something that makes the budding fat admirer more likely to be able to accept him/herself. In contrast coming from a family of skinnies may make the fat admirer more likely to be self-loathing and also hateful of those to which he/she is attracted (the saddest situation we have in this 'community').


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## LJ Rock (Dec 16, 2021)

Thank you, @Sonic Purity for so candidly sharing your experiences. I can relate to a lot of what you've said, and I suspect that while each individual has their own path that has brought us all here to this place we all find ourselves (FAness) there are likely some universal aspects to our respective journeys. It's fascinating how a "perfect storm" of sorts of environmental and circumstantial conditions can lead to us being imprinted with these kinds of predilections or tendencies. 

My mother seems to be at an age now where she feels the need to voluntarily "confess" certain things from the past. She made it known that I in fact was not breastfed as a baby, unfortunately... so yeah, that explains A LOT (not just as far the fetish and the desperate need for comfort/consolation is concerned, but health issues, etc. as well) I think as a really young child I had the same sorts of needs for cuddling, nurturing, feeling comforted by soft, plush textures as described in the original post, but I think another key factor for me personally was a mildly-traumatic event that happened just as I was entering puberty.

It's entirely possible that I may have completely outgrown my need to for these comforts as I got older had it not been for the fact that at the age of ten I found myself feeling completely isolated and alone due to being transplanted into a new community when my family moved to a new state. At that time (and I had to sit through a lot of therapy sessions to really unveil this for me) my psyche was looking for the familiar sorts of comforts and coping mechanisms I had known as a young child, while at the same time I was developing sexually.

I also happened to have a grandma who was a major feeder. lol She was a stable presence in my life during times when the rest of the world around me seemed to be in chaos, and her mission to fatten up her grandkids I think somehow helped to transform the fantasies that came from seeing the childhood cartoon scenes of stuffing and expansion from being innocuous and silly things into something powerful and lasting. The perfect storm, if you will.

In the end, maybe it doesn't matter so much the reasons why. But I think that anything we can do to have a deeper insight into ourselves and what make us tick can only help us to be better people, and maybe give us a better understanding of the world around us too. Maybe.


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## Sonic Purity (Dec 16, 2021)

Thank you both @waldo and @LJ Rock for sharing your thoughts and experiences on this subject.



LJ Rock said:


> In the end, maybe it doesn't matter so much the reasons why. But I think that anything we can do to have a deeper insight into ourselves and what make us tick can only help us to be better people, and maybe give us a better understanding of the world around us too. Maybe.



In the past i’ve been asked “What is it you *really *want?”, during initial interactions for friendship and/or romance. I feel that having this (new to me) clarity in my own mind will in the (hopefully near) future help me better/more accurately answer this question. Indeed, i may point individuals asking these sorts of questions to the opening post in this thread. In the past, i only had wishy-washy “Mmm, well…” hesitant answers, which those with whom i was dealing seemed to find off-putting. This sort of clarity certainly won’t solve everything in terms of my dating difficulties, but having clearer, truer knowledge of what i seek and thus able to represent myself more accurately when i put myself out there may help.

Aside: *love* your art, LJ! I’m using “art” in the general sense, covering your visual art, written words (stories), and even other forms of art you may have done which i’ve yet to experience.


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## LJ Rock (Dec 16, 2021)

Sonic Purity said:


> Aside: *love* your art, LJ! I’m using “art” in the general sense, covering your visual art, written words (stories), and even other forms of art you may have done which i’ve yet to experience.



Thank you so much! I appreciate you saying that. 

It certainly can be difficult to establish a meaningful relationship with someone when you're unable to definitively quantify or effectively communicate exactly what it is you want from said relationship, and it's difficult to know what it is you want when there are some many missing pieces from our past or parts of ourselves that are unclear. I feel like that's one of the things that has made this community so invaluable to me personally, is that insight that can be gained from openly interacting with others who have been on their own journeys alongside us. 

Glad that you've found some clarity, @Sonic Purity, and I hope it helps you find what you're looking for.


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## waldo (Dec 19, 2021)

LJ Rock said:


> *..........My mother seems to be at an age now where she feels the need to voluntarily "confess" certain things from the past. She made it known that I in fact was not breastfed as a baby, unfortunately... so yeah, that explains A LOT (not just as far the fetish and the desperate need for comfort/consolation is concerned, but health issues, etc. as well) I think as a really young child I had the same sorts of needs for cuddling, nurturing, feeling comforted by soft, plush textures as described in the original post*, but I think another key factor for me personally was a mildly-traumatic event that happened just as I was entering puberty..........



My mother was only 29 when I was born, but she had difficulty producing breast milk. Once it was discovered to be a problem, I think she mostly defaulted to bottle/formula. I am assuming it was the same with my 2 year younger sister (her and my Mom never have been that close.....) So I see a common thread, but I would be very interested to see if there is a real trend amongst male FAs (and others) on this issue. Well I am sure there is lots of psychological research on breastfeeding versus not and the subsequent outcomes, in general. But for FAs? Still a lot of territory to mine for an enterprising psychology researcher!


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## LJ Rock (Dec 20, 2021)

waldo said:


> My mother was only 29 when I was born, but she had difficulty producing breast milk. Once it was discovered to be a problem, I think she mostly defaulted to bottle/formula. I am assuming it was the same with my 2 year younger sister (her and my Mom never have been that close.....) So I see a common thread, but I would be very interested to see if there is a real trend amongst male FAs (and others) on this issue. Well I am sure there is lots of psychological research on breastfeeding versus not and the subsequent outcomes, in general. But for FAs? Still a lot of territory to mine for an enterprising psychology researcher!



My mom was about the same age when I was born. Back in the 70s that was actually considered kind of old to be having your first child (I am an oldest.) Not sure how much her age had to do with it, likely had more to do with her inexperience and her somewhat fragile psychological state at the time. 

I've often thought it would be interesting to take stock of all these various environmental and circumstantial conditions and create some sort of a poll or a survey to see how many folks went through similar things. It's something that one would have to put a lot of time and thought into, but it could yield some illuminating results.


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## Shotha (Dec 20, 2021)

I've often wondered, if my attraction to fat men is something that I inherited genetically from my mother.

The story in my family was like this. My mother had many suitors but she rejected them all. The rest of her family started to worry that she would be "left on the shelf". When she met my father, they had a whirlwind romance. He left the army and proposed to her. She accepted his proposal.

My father was a big fat man. So, my mother rejected all the other men that showed an interest in her and married the fat man. I wonder if she was a chubby chaser and I inherited this trait from her genetically, because I'm only attracted to fat men.


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## Sonic Purity (Dec 22, 2021)

Shotha said:


> I've often wondered, if my attraction to fat men is something that I inherited genetically from my mother.



Absolutely makes sense to me. I believe there’s all kinds of inherited traits which so far have been difficult to see/tease out from all the environmental and other factors.


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## Rojodi (Dec 28, 2021)

I didn't have a choice, I say. Mother, sister, their friends, all big, curvy women. It's what I saw every day, who I talked with.


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## mathfa (Dec 28, 2021)

Sonic Purity said:


> Absolutely makes sense to me. I believe there’s all kinds of inherited traits which so far have been difficult to see/tease out from all the environmental and other factors.


In general I'm a nature over nurture person, ive found in my experience that this holds true more often than not. So I feel like for many of us, it's just something we were born with. I can remember finding larger people interesting to look at since I was a small boy. Obviously didn't know it as a sexual thing until 13 or 14.


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## Gigi_is_me_me (Feb 22, 2022)

I've always been very fascinated by what, "flips the switch," for this attraction. I'm considering writing a book about it-- and possibly the fat admiration community as a whole. If anyone has some unique insight I'd be happy to reciprocate a chat.


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## Rojodi (Feb 23, 2022)

Gigi_is_me_me said:


> I've always been very fascinated by what, "flips the switch," for this attraction. I'm considering writing a book about it-- and possibly the fat admiration community as a whole. If anyone has some unique insight I'd be happy to reciprocate a chat.



My reason is self explanatory.


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## Broseph (Feb 23, 2022)

@Sonic Purity Thanks for posting, and thanks for sharing your insights! I can relate to a good deal of what you and others have shared. I need to process my own experience but will try to formulate it on here in the days/weeks to come. 

As LJ said, I think all of us in this community have our own experience in this area, but there are certainly similarities. And I REALLY relate to wondering most of my life "why do I like what I like?" Will write more at a later date


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## Gigi_is_me_me (Feb 23, 2022)

Rojodi said:


> My reason is self explanatory.


It is-- as I read your reply above. Thank you for being so open and sharing your perspective


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## Shotha (Feb 23, 2022)

Gigi_is_me_me said:


> I've always been very fascinated by what, "flips the switch," for this attraction. I'm considering writing a book about it-- and possibly the fat admiration community as a whole. If anyone has some unique insight I'd be happy to reciprocate a chat.



My belief is that nothing "flips the switch" for this attraction. I think that we are born this way.

Fat evolved for biological reasons. Mammals find life hard, and in many cases impossible, without fat, which enables us to survive for long periods without food. Fat would be of no use in this way, if there were no individuals, who were attracted to fat individuals. I think that the majority of humans are attracted by fat to some degree. Otherwise, fat would not be able to help us survive. I think that FA's are just at the extreme end of normality in this respect.

Since I'm gay, I tend to compare fat attraction and homosexuality. Since has now clearly demonstrated that people are born gay rather than turned into homosexuals. In the same way I think that FA's are born and not made. I think that this too is part of our sexual orientation.


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## Rojodi (Feb 23, 2022)

Gigi_is_me_me said:


> It is-- as I read your reply above. Thank you for being so open and sharing your perspective



You're welcome.
It was an unusual teenage years - book worm, jock, and an apartment with big women and teens LOL


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## waldo (Feb 25, 2022)

Rojodi said:


> You're welcome.
> It was an unusual teenage years - book worm, jock, and an apartment with big women and teens LOL


When I really think about it, I conclude that there is no reason it must be only life-experience or an inborn orientation that results in the path to being an FA. It is surely a combination with a distribution between 0-100 and 100-0. So not an easy thing to pin down definitively. I am just glad I ended up in this 'camp'.


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## Tad (Mar 2, 2022)

Shotha said:


> My belief is that nothing "flips the switch" for this attraction. I think that we are born this way.
> 
> Fat evolved for biological reasons. Mammals find life hard, and in many cases impossible, without fat, which enables us to survive for long periods without food. Fat would be of no use in this way, if there were no individuals, who were attracted to fat individuals. I think that the majority of humans are attracted by fat to some degree. Otherwise, fat would not be able to help us survive. I think that FA's are just at the extreme end of normality in this respect.
> 
> Since I'm gay, I tend to compare fat attraction and homosexuality. Since has now clearly demonstrated that people are born gay rather than turned into homosexuals. In the same way I think that FA's are born and not made. I think that this too is part of our sexual orientation.



Just from what I've read elsewhere (not claiming any deep expertise in this area at all!), gender identity and gender sexual attraction seem to be largely set by birth, but from what I understand 'they' think that most kinks take root in the 2-4 year old age range. Apparently there are higher levels of sexual hormones at that age and we kind of map out in more detail what is to be desirable to us. But that is before the age where we retain much conscious memory, so by the time we remember our thoughts and feelings we just know that "we've always been that way." I suspect that there is more to it than that, that there may be a genetic or in utero component that guides that development a bit more, but that is just my guess.


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## waldo (Mar 2, 2022)

Tad said:


> Just from what I've read elsewhere (not claiming any deep expertise in this area at all!), gender identity and gender sexual attraction seem to be largely set by birth, but from what I understand 'they' think that most kinks take root in the 2-4 year old age range. Apparently there are higher levels of sexual hormones at that age and we kind of map out in more detail what is to be desirable to us. But that is before the age where we retain much conscious memory, so by the time we remember our thoughts and feelings we just know that "we've always been that way." I suspect that there is more to it than that, that there may be a genetic or in utero component that guides that development a bit more, but that is just my guess.



Interesting, but I can't help wondering what kind of evidence these 'researchers' have supporting this theory about 'kinks' developing in 2-4 year old kids who have anything but sexual interactions on their mind. That seems like just a wild theory. Then again, I guess it is no more speculative than the nature versus nurture issue in general.


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## Shotha (Mar 2, 2022)

Tad said:


> Just from what I've read elsewhere (not claiming any deep expertise in this area at all!), gender identity and gender sexual attraction seem to be largely set by birth, but from what I understand 'they' think that most kinks take root in the 2-4 year old age range. Apparently there are higher levels of sexual hormones at that age and we kind of map out in more detail what is to be desirable to us. But that is before the age where we retain much conscious memory, so by the time we remember our thoughts and feelings we just know that "we've always been that way." I suspect that there is more to it than that, that there may be a genetic or in utero component that guides that development a bit more, but that is just my guess.



It's more difficult to pin down what causes sexual preferences other than sexual orientation. I have a feeling that many "kinks" will be described as "preferences", when it is found how many people have them. I'm talking about changes in the English language (semantic shift) here. But here's a funny story.

My dad was a fat man and we had many other fat men amongst our family and friends. By the time that I was 4 years old, I thought that fat men were wonderful. I wanted to be a fat man, when I grew up. I started to pad, because I wanted so much to be a fat man. We had a friend, whom I was encouraged to call Uncle Roy, even though he wasn't related to us. I thought that Uncle Roy was wonderful and I wanted to be a big fat man just like him. I noticed that my dad and the other men called Uncle Roy Fatty. At 4 years of age, I lacked the maturity to observe that they only called him Fatty behind his back and never to his face.

One Sunday morning, my father was reading the newspaper in the living room, my mother had gone out and I was playing in the kitchen. Uncle Roy appeared at the back door. The kitchen door was open and the porch door had one large glass panel. Uncle Roy open the porch door and stepped inside.

"'Ey up, dad, Fatty's here!" I yelled with delight.

My dad came into the kitchen to say hello to Uncle Roy, who was very upset about being called Fatty.

"If a lad of mine said that, I'd give 'im a scuft round the ear," said Uncle Roy.

My dad tried to dismiss the matter as a childish triviality.

In the moment my world fell apart. I realized that other people didn't view be fat as the positive, beautiful and desirable thing that my four-year-old mind did. I realized that most fat people were ashamed of being fat. I had to keep my desire to be a fat man and my padding as dark secrets, until I discovered Dimensions.


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## waldo (Mar 3, 2022)

Shotha said:


> It's more difficult to pin down what causes sexual preferences other than sexual orientation. I have a feeling that many "kinks" will be described as "preferences", when it is found how many people have them. I'm talking about changes in the English language (semantic shift) here. But here's a funny story.
> 
> My dad was a fat man and we had many other fat men amongst our family and friends. By the time that I was 4 years old, I thought that fat men were wonderful. I wanted to be a fat man, when I grew up. I started to pad, because I wanted so much to be a fat man. We had a friend, whom I was encouraged to call Uncle Roy, even though he wasn't related to us. I thought that Uncle Roy was wonderful and I wanted to be a big fat man just like him. I noticed that my dad and the other men called Uncle Roy Fatty. At 4 years of age, I lacked the maturity to observe that they only called him Fatty behind his back and never to his face.
> 
> ...


Oh nice point!! The desire to be fat or be close to a fat person potentially can have NOTHING to do with sexuality. It is a feeling of comfort and familiarity and also fat people give the best hugs


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## Shotha (Mar 3, 2022)

waldo said:


> Oh nice point!! The desire to be fat or be close to a fat person potentially can have NOTHING to do with sexuality. It is a feeling of comfort and familiarity and also fat people give the best hugs



For me the desire to keep getting fatter is very much to do with identity. I like to be seen to be the fat man. I'm also attracted to fat men. After I started dating fat men, I realized that I still wasn't satisfied, because my dream was of two fat men together. I still think that the great component of my desire to be fat is to do with identity.


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## ChubbyPear (Mar 6, 2022)

I personally prefer fitter men, but I have been involved with the fetish community for a very long time. I can tell you that most groups formed around particular fetishes have these same discussions. I think that with many fetish interests, we are indeed "born with it."


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## Tad (Mar 7, 2022)

I agree that identity is the under-discussed side of fat attraction. Identifying as a fat person (or wanting to), being most comfortable with people who identify as fat, etc. People get all excited to talk about sex, but identity can be at least as powerful a motivator.


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## Shotha (Mar 7, 2022)

Tad said:


> I agree that identity is the under-discussed side of fat attraction. Identifying as a fat person (or wanting to), being most comfortable with people who identify as fat, etc. People get all excited to talk about sex, but identity can be at least as powerful a motivator.



I have to agree that people get excited, when the talk is about sex. Identity is a much more elusive subject. However, the huge number of people, who are unhappy with their bodies, is a clear indicator of the importance of identity.


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## Gigi_is_me_me (Mar 8, 2022)

Thank you for all the replies. Here's something I find interesting. When speaking to people established in size acceptance communities they're more apt to say, "people are just born that way." However, I've had this conversation with most of the men I've dated, or that were long time friends, and they almost always identify some significant moment when they realized that they were attracted to larger women. 

For example my Ex-Husband, he had a moment in his youth where he happened to see a larger scantily clad woman, admiring herself in a mirror at a friend's home. That's when he recognized his attraction to larger women began. Most of the men, I mentioned above have had similar stories. It's all very fascinating to me.


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## ChubbyPear (Mar 8, 2022)

Gigi_is_me_me said:


> Thank you for all the replies. Here's something I find interesting. When speaking to people established in size acceptance communities they're more apt to say, "people are just born that way." However, I've had this conversation with most of the men I've dated, or that were long time friends, and they almost always identify some significant moment when they realized that they were attracted to larger women.
> 
> For example my Ex-Husband, he had a moment in his youth where he happened to see a larger scantily clad woman, admiring herself in a mirror at a friend's home. That's when he recognized his attraction to larger women began. Most of the men, I mentioned above have had similar stories. It's all very fascinating to me.


I don't think being born with it, and being able to pinpoint when you realized it / what brought it out, are mutually exclusive.


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## Tad (Mar 8, 2022)

ChubbyPear said:


> I don't think being born with it, and being able to pinpoint when you realized it / what brought it out, are mutually exclusive.


^^^^^ exactly. There are lots of things that are there within us that we don't realize until some situation or other makes them relevant.


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## Gigi_is_me_me (Mar 8, 2022)

That's a fair point.


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## Shotha (Mar 8, 2022)

It's always fascinated me that something we're born with can become apparent in some of us before puberty but with other people it takes a lifetime for them to realize what their preference is.


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## Tad (Mar 8, 2022)

Shotha said:


> It's always fascinated me that something we're born with can become apparent in some of us before puberty but with other people it takes a lifetime for them to realize what their preference is.



And sometimes the signs were there but we couldn't read them. I didn't figure out that when it comes to fat folk I'm pansexual (if that is the right term for 'don't really care about what gender you are, its all good') until my mid 20s. When puberty hit some of my most intense crushes were on other chubby guys, but I somehow didn't recognize those as crushes. For that matter although some of my earliest erotic fantasies involved me gaining weight along with others, I somehow didn't accept how much my own gain turned me on for years, instead just focusing on how I was attracted to heavier women.


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## Shotha (Mar 8, 2022)

Tad said:


> And sometimes the signs were there but we couldn't read them. I didn't figure out that when it comes to fat folk I'm pansexual (if that is the right term for 'don't really care about what gender you are, its all good') until my mid 20s. When puberty hit some of my most intense crushes were on other chubby guys, but I somehow didn't recognize those as crushes. For that matter although some of my earliest erotic fantasies involved me gaining weight along with others, I somehow didn't accept how much my own gain turned me on for years, instead just focusing on how I was attracted to heavier women.



When I was eight years old, I was going back to school with my mother after the lunchbreak. I still believed in God back then. I remember thinking, "If God intends for me to get married to a girl, then it's very strange that he made more good-looking boys than girls."
I knew that I preferred the fat boys, but I didn't realize that it was an exclusive preference until I dated a skinny guy and it didn't work.
It took me a while longer to work out that my dream was of two fat guys together. So, I started gaining.


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## Bigdj1977 (Mar 9, 2022)

Shotha said:


> For me the desire to keep getting fatter is very much to do with identity. I like to be seen to be the fat man. I'm also attracted to fat men. After I started dating fat men, I realized that I still wasn't satisfied, because my dream was of two fat men together. I still think that the great component of my desire to be fat is to do with identity.


I agree with the identity part for myself. Long before I had sexual thoughts, I was fascinated by and admired fat people. Being fat and also being seen as a fat man is a very important part of my identity. And while I am sexually attracted to fat women, my own fat and my partner’s fat are so much more than just a sex fetish for me. Being large and heavy gives me comfort and reassurance about myself as a person.


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## waldo (Mar 10, 2022)

Bigdj1977 said:


> I agree with the identity part for myself. Long before I had sexual thoughts, I was fascinated by and admired fat people. Being fat and also being seen as a fat man is a very important part of my identity. And while I am sexually attracted to fat women, my own fat and my partner’s fat are so much more than just a sex fetish for me. Being large and heavy gives me comfort and reassurance about myself as a person.


Seems like a good argument to turn the current physical attractiveness/worth dynamic on end and flip the entire thing around. Why shouldn't it be desirable to be fatter than everyone else and also to desire a partner on that upper end; as opposed to the flip-flop situation we currently deal with.....


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## TwoSwords (Apr 9, 2022)

Some of these are probably part of my own psychology. Also, my sense of touch is considerably more noticeable to me than my other senses, in terms of the joy I get when using it. Strong flavors are wonderful, but a pillow and a soft bed are more so, and I've always been like this, even when I was a toddler. I've been told that I would curl up in my mother's lap with my milk just before bed, while she wore her silky nightgown when I was less than three. Then, one night, I was given a bottle before my mom had gotten ready for bed, and suddenly, I was gone. They eventually found me in my mom's closet, with one hand on her nightgown, while it was still on its hangar.

A story reminiscent of the Harlow experiment, and one I don't mind sharing, because, like those monkeys, the sense of touch obviously matters to me a ton. Indeed, it's one of the reasons I eventually decided I had to start gaining weight myself.


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## Donna (Apr 10, 2022)

I've heard all my life men are visual creatures (my mother used to say it as a motivator to get me to lose weight.) My personal experiences have been different. I don't know if it is because I am a touchy-feely person myself, but all but one of my former partners were extremely tactile.


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## Rojodi (Apr 10, 2022)

Donna said:


> I've heard all my life men are visual creatures (my mother used to say it as a motivator to get me to lose weight.) My personal experiences have been different. I don't know if it is because I am a touchy-feely person myself, but all but one of my former partners were extremely tactile.



My wife heard that from many of her friends, hell those "friends" said it to her IN FRONT OF ME!
I heard from my friends that as an athlete, I should NOT be around "fat chicks". 

Men who like fat women like fat women, and won't listen to their friends or her friends.


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## waldo (Apr 12, 2022)

Donna said:


> I've heard all my life men are visual creatures (my mother used to say it as a motivator to get me to lose weight.) My personal experiences have been different. I don't know if it is because I am a touchy-feely person myself, but all but one of my former partners were extremely tactile.



I have a thought: what if it is six of one and half a dozen of the other? In other words, what if men are (on average) equally visual and tactile (but both being of the physical nature), while women are a more even mixture of physical and emotional/mental? Regardless, we can (should??) pretty much all agree that the brains of women and men function differently; and that inherent difference continues to make our interactions with each other 'challenging'


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## waldo (Apr 12, 2022)

Rojodi said:


> My wife heard that from many of her friends, hell those "friends" said it to her IN FRONT OF ME!
> I heard from my friends that as an athlete, I should NOT be around "fat chicks".
> 
> Men who like fat women like fat women, and won't listen to their friends or her friends.


I do 1000% agree with what you are saying, in principle. Unfortunately, when it comes to pro athletes and other figures with major public image 'concerns', people absolutely DO listen to their friends and everyone else. Well, we are still waiting for a significant pro athlete to admit being gay, and gays are much more accepted these days than FAs are by far (we get HAMMERED over the health aspects issue). Will I see a superstar athlete be an open FA before I die??? I tend to think no, and that is sad, because I think statistically they must be out there (past and present).


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## Sonic Purity (Apr 14, 2022)

Thanks again to everyone who’s posted above. It’s interesting the many facets and considerations each of us brings to the table/discussion.

Before i make my point, this for Donna in the Dimensions system caught my eye:
member: 58

Now _that’s_ O.G.!

Back to our discussion:


Donna said:


> I've heard all my life men are visual creatures (my mother used to say it as a motivator to get me to lose weight.) My personal experiences have been different. I don't know if it is because I am a touchy-feely person myself, but all but one of my former partners were extremely tactile.



The visual creatures thing seems to be one of many tired stereotypes. I mean, rewinding back to the savannah, how exactly was a woman selecting whom she’d allow to mate with her? Did she just let the men beat each other up and go with the survivor? Did she wait until he was close enough to read his scent? Wouldn’t she have had some visual considerations?

What about love at first sight? I’ve not noticed that being a one-way thing in romance novels—at least not most of the time. Sure it *can* be one-way, as can love triggered for any reason, but i’m sensing far more symmetry.

This is not directed at any specific individual. It’s just something i’ve noticed from experience over time, of which Donna’s post reminded me:

Woman writes “touchy-feely”: all is well.
Man writes “touchy-feely”: *CREEPER!*

I used to use that term as it was accurate for me, but the results were very bad.



waldo said:


> I have a thought: what if it is six of one and half a dozen of the other? In other words, what if men are (on average) equally visual and tactile (but both being of the physical nature), while women are a more even mixture of physical and emotional/mental? Regardless, we can (should??) pretty much all agree that the brains of women and men function differently; and that inherent difference continues to make our interactions with each other 'challenging'



Going to respectfully disagree with you on that last sentence, waldo. My personal experience inside my own non-binary head and with other people is that there can be greater differences between individuals classified under a given binary gender than individuals between the classifications. _Very_ broad, sweeping generalization, yes you are correct as you wrote your sentence, but those generalizations so effectively marginalize people like myself i cannot let them go with no comment.

I wasn’t in any kind of closet; i just lacked the terminology/language for what i was about. Given the paucity of options, i went with Broken or Defective Man. It took me all the way until 2018 researching a musician i admired and being upset that she got to be something nifty and wonderful on the gender spectrum and i had nothing. Then i carefully re-read the definition for her self-classification. Then i dug deeper. Then i looked back to my history—something no one can manipulate, as it is the past, unchangeable. Taking these new conclusions and dropping it on this chart (least-worst one i’ve come across so far. I welcome superior, more refined options):


I come out right about like this:


It’s very blurry in my brain. Some days, some moments, i’m nearly a stereotypical man inside my head. Other moments that day, or other days, i’m at the other end, or more often somewhere in between, ever-shifting.

Gender expression blurs too. Difficult to blur with clothes, so at any given time things like clothing would be one point somewhere on that line. Behavior others can see, such as body language, on the other hand can shift as rapidly as inside my mind, so the overall presentation can indeed be that blurry.

Trying to pigeonhole someone like me into a binary category of Man or Woman is highly problematic, and to me, often damaging. Biologically there is not any question whatsoever that i am hard-pegged Male, non-ambiguous. Yet my brain doesn’t work like that of a stereotypical man. The brain of Sonic functions differently than either of the Man or Woman binary classifications.

Non-binarily yours,


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## Donna (Apr 14, 2022)

Sonic, sweetie, if OG = old girl, I’ll take it. 

OK, you all continue with your serious discussion.


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## waldo (Apr 16, 2022)

Donna said:


> Sonic, sweetie, if OG = old girl, I’ll take it.
> 
> OK, you all continue with your serious discussion.



You do know what OG refers to, right??
For those who don't know, it is actually 'original gangster' and seems to be from the hip-hop/urban black culture. But yes, I would agree as member #58 all the way back in 2005 (although the board system was totally changed at that time and everyone had to re-signup), it's still an impressive achievement for Ms. Donna to be here after all this time (despite a long absence) - staying power for the win!!!


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## waldo (Apr 16, 2022)

Sonic Purity said:


> Thanks again to everyone who’s posted above. It’s interesting the many facets and considerations each of us brings to the table/discussion.
> 
> Before i make my point, this for Donna in the Dimensions system caught my eye:
> member: 58
> ...



Yes I am sorry if I offended with my old-fashioned, simplistic comments. I am just really confused/perplexed about the gender fluidity issue. And that's not saying I don't have my own peculiarities. I am not just a straight cis-gendered FA. All kinds of things go through my own head, but I tend to leave them mostly to the 'fantasy world'. But I certainly don't want to minimize your experience and am glad you have been finding some clarification of your feelings in recent years. Your perspective is very welcome to help some of us to update our own viewpoints on the complexities of the human condition and the even more complex world of interpersonal relations.....


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## Sonic Purity (Apr 16, 2022)

waldo said:


> Yes I am sorry if I offended with my old-fashioned, simplistic comments. I am just really confused/perplexed about the gender fluidity issue. And that's not saying I don't have my own peculiarities. I am not just a straight cis-gendered FA. All kinds of things go through my own head, but I tend to leave them mostly to the 'fantasy world'. But I certainly don't want to minimize your experience and am glad you have been finding some clarification of your feelings in recent years. Your perspective is very welcome to help some of us to update our own viewpoints on the complexities of the human condition and the even more complex world of interpersonal relations.....



Thanks for your follow up, and for defining O.G. for everyone so i didn’t have to burn up a valuable public post and diminish my Dims Cred Quotient. Unlike someone a few years ago on another site, i knew that you were being honest and not intending to offend or hurt, so when i felt hurt, i just wanted to shine a light on the issue, for us to all discuss as we are. Yay us! Yay Dimensions for providing this gathering space to discuss like this!

We’re all living through this evolving new realm of terminology and awareness for what has almost certainly been present forever over the course of the existence of humanity, and often people like myself on the “inside” who fit one of the newer definitions are as confused and perplexed as those on the “outside” who know themselves to better fit one of the traditional gender definitions. It’s a lot easier mentally and memory-wise to have a binary This/That classification, which is why i think the human mind tends to go there—sports team rivalries, political parties, sides of an issue—when in reality there may be 3, 4, 5, or more sides, etc.

*Personal Pronouns Digression*
Confession: i’m tending old-fashioned with personal pronouns. Absolutely i respect everyone’s choices, but it’s suddenly a whole other layer of memory work.

Old Days: Judge by appearance/presentation. Use one of the binary pronoun sets (he/him/his, she/her/hers).

Now: No visible clue. Each of us is supposed to be told then memorize a person’s preferred personal pronouns.

To me it’s like having to memorize everyone’s favorite color before i can write or speak of them and get the pronouns correct.

**********
True story, told to me by my most recent healer, who lived it:

She entered her local dry cleaners to pick up her cleaned garments, hearing the end of a loud argument. A huffy individual she judged by appearances to be a woman stormed out.

As she approached the counter, she readily noticed the counter person, who to her appeared/acted/sounded like a 20-something or early 30-something young man, standing there in dazed shock. The following are not exact quotes, but do cover the gist of what she told me:

“What happened?” she asked him.
“I… I was just saying ‘Thank you, ma’am’, and that person went off on me about how he’s a man. How was I supposed to know the preferred pronouns?!”
**********
Exactly. Until we all start wearing buttons or pins with our preferred personal pronouns, how is someone to know? And even then, how is a blind person interacting with us and hearing just a voice supposed to know?

That’s why i’ve declared myself Pronoun Easy: *any* personal pronouns work for me, as long as they’re used respectfully (e.g. normally) rather than as an intentional insult.

He/him/his?: sure. Biologically that’s what i am, i was assigned male at birth and raised that way, and lived most of my life that way (or tried). Big ol’ Adam’s apple, angular features, medium-deep voice, not curvy body—sure, those are good. Most people go with these most of the time. I’m used to it and 100% good with them.

She/her/hers, ma’am, etc.?: Love it. I’ve been called “ma’am” several times, usually when first viewed from the back. Gives me a tingly thrill. A few years ago one morning bicycling to my then-dentist’s office when i looked much less femme than now, an intoxicated individual (by appearances a dark-skinned gentleman) apparently took me for a slender flat-chested woman, flirting or making a pass (i don’t know the difference between those) at me as i smiled and pedaled by. A few months ago on a warm day when i was walking around Toluca Lake (think of it as North Hollywood, or the heavy entertainment industry part of the San Fernando Valley, if you’re from away) after an appointment with my healer wearing my femme “Karen” (so i’ve been told) short shorts, a Hollywood producer/mogul-looking man rolled by slowly in his nice Cadillac from behind, calling out “_Lookin’ good, baby!” _He saw my face and heard me thanking him in a barely-raised pitch of my normal male voice at about the same time, his face turning more towards a mild scowl as he drove away.

They/them/theirs?: Alright. This seems to be where society is converging, turning the former plural forms into flexible all-purpose singulars and plurals. If/once widely accepted, lowers the mental burden of having to remember so many personal pronouns. The following may be icky/wrong-headed, but it’s how i think about things: when a fat person wants they/them/theirs, it’s easy for me to think of them that way and remember, because to me body-wise by volume they’re already plural. For me as a thin person and for other thin people, it‘s more of a mental stretch, to which i’m still adjusting. But if it makes it easier for you when referring to me, i’m all good with it.

Sie/hir/hirs?: These and others from last decade, which apparently are/were attempts to unify gender and keep things singular, seem to already be falling or have fallen out of favor. They were kinda weird and artificial and something else new to remember—another mental burden—hence i’m not truly surprised. But if you like them and want to use them for me, i’m good with that.

It/its?: Yes, that pronoun set has been used for me, most memorably by a then-little girl who’s now in her 40s, who, like others, saw me from behind first then from the front, pointing her 5 or 6 year old index finger at me and loudly proclaiming to all of us in that particular Canned Foods Grocery Outlet store (Berkeley, California), “_Mommy! It’s a _*MA-annn!*”. To which of course i smiled and twinkle-finger waved towards daughter and mother.

In summary, for me at least, unless a person is making a conscious effort to be insulting, it is impossible to get my personal pronouns wrong. Hopefully this lowers everyone’s mental burden. Hopefully more people will sign onto being Pronoun Easy.

Wishing everyone minimal mental burdens living in today’s society,

@Donna, if you want to be thought of as Old Girl, i’ll respect your wishes. Think i saw in another thread that you’re proud of your gray hair and owning it. Good deal. Michelle Shocked did several decades ago sing When I Grow Up I Want To Be An Old Woman (and the only video i can access is on mail.ru, so no), so… yeah.

Here in my world, i’m striving to stay as vibrant and young as possible, physically for sure, mentally with maturity. I was treated like old worthless garbage/ignored when my hair was left natural white/gray. Since coloring i’m treated as younger, and a *lot* better.


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## extra_m13 (Apr 17, 2022)

well if i had to explain in an honest way my attraction to fat women... it would probably be this. even is no one reads i will try to give a comprehensive answer evern if it is just for me. childhood had nothing in particular but... the fact that my mom usually pressed my sisters to be skinny and she herself tried really hard to be skinny all the time. so being chubby and being ok with it felt like a way to rebel to the statuquo which is for me very sexy and has a close taste to freedom and rebelling to the whatever it is supposed to be. now at 10-11-12 years old i began to see my classmates underskirts whenever i could and of course there were some chubby and some skinny ones. and by fat i preferred to see those chubby legs with cellulite and rolls and bellies, the skinny ones make me feel pretty much nothing even do as a kid i used to like a couple of skinny girls. 

first few girls i dated and kissed, this around 15years old , i noticed i went after the chub and it was a delicious thing so after noticing my dick reacting to that i decided... what is the point of getting the fit girl and trying to grab some roll here and there? why not try to just get the curvier girl? and it was so, and it was a delicious thing and it was pure pleasure but... i wanted bigger. so at the end the strategy shifted to first look to date the chubby girl and try to make her gain some. because it is hot and erotic to see a lady eat more than what she should according to some dumb doctor and because it is so hot to grab rolls and fat and cellulite... that i feel everyday today


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## waldo (Apr 17, 2022)

Sonic Purity said:


> Thanks for your follow up, and for defining O.G. for everyone so i didn’t have to burn up a valuable public post and diminish my Dims Cred Quotient. Unlike someone a few years ago on another site, i knew that you were being honest and not intending to offend or hurt, so when i felt hurt, i just wanted to shine a light on the issue, for us to all discuss as we are. Yay us! Yay Dimensions for providing this gathering space to discuss like this!
> 
> We’re all living through this evolving new realm of terminology and awareness for what has almost certainly been present forever over the course of the existence of humanity, and often people like myself on the “inside” who fit one of the newer definitions are as confused and perplexed as those on the “outside” who know themselves to better fit one of the traditional gender definitions. It’s a lot easier mentally and memory-wise to have a binary This/That classification, which is why i think the human mind tends to go there—sports team rivalries, political parties, sides of an issue—when in reality there may be 3, 4, 5, or more sides, etc.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the additional comments. So does that website that you used for the graphs (www.gendersanity.com) have a 'survey' that anyone can take and get a readout of their gender identity profile?
I really appreciate your comments on the whole 'pronouns' issue. Your more accepting approach is better because being upset at every stranger that you perceived to have slighted you is a rough way to go through life. It's like that really old song, but you and I both know it (couldn't have lived through the '80s and not): Don't Worry, Be Happy.
As far as grey hair: while balding significantly, most of what I have 'left' is mostly grey. So just yesterday I had my wife (a talented hairdresser) color my hair. I wanted to go with the Just for Men "touch of grey', but it seems not available in the stores around here anymore. Pretty shocking to look at myself in the mirror and see no grey up there. It will be interesting how I get perceived in public. I understand and empathize about how you were feeling disrespected and disregarded. My main clue as to how I may be treated differently in absence of the grey hair is: how do they deal with me when it comes to getting my booze purchases authorized at the checkout. I suspect I will get more store clerks wanting to see the actual ID card after this....... If not, then DAMN, I must look really old


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## Sonic Purity (Apr 18, 2022)

waldo said:


> Thanks for the additional comments. So does that website that you used for the graphs (www.gendersanity.com) have a 'survey' that anyone can take and get a readout of their gender identity profile?



Not last i checked. Indeed before i posted, that site was offline. When i went there a few years ago, they had the first (blank) graphic i posted. Their intent was mainly to increase the vocabulary and mental concepts beyond the societal man/woman all-encompassing binary designations as a package deal of what in reality are so many different dimensions of existence.

I had to figure out mine on my own from all sorts of sources over many decades. I made a copy of the original image and colored it in manually using my graphics app (GraphicConverter, which i use instead of Photoshop or Gimp for most purposes).



> I really appreciate your comments on the whole 'pronouns' issue. Your more accepting approach is better because being upset at every stranger that you perceived to have slighted you is a rough way to go through life. It's like that really old song, but you and I both know it (couldn't have lived through the '80s and not): Don't Worry, Be Happy.



Thanks. It puzzles me why people would set themselves up to make it easy for strangers to guess incorrectly something which cannot be known without prior knowledge, else asking, else some visible/audible/able to be sensed indicator.

Yes, Bobby McFerrin’s hit of positivity. Aside on that: i have a database of every song i ever played on KALX during my years there of 1980-1995—the ones which were written down onto the paper playlists and i eventually got the playlists back (once the Music Department was done tallying them) anyway. Just searched that database on “Don’t Worry”. I never played Don’t Worry, Be Happy. I did play Talking Heads’ Don’t Worry ’Bout The Government twice (March and August 1981), as well as the reggae song Don’t Worry Your Mind by Pato Banton (December 1987) and Don’t Worry Kyoko by Tater Totz (punk?, July 1988). I remember the Talking Heads song, but not those last two.

Do i win for most trivial trivia in a Dimensions post?



> As far as grey hair: while balding significantly, most of what I have 'left' is mostly grey. So just yesterday I had my wife (a talented hairdresser) color my hair. I wanted to go with the Just for Men "touch of grey', but it seems not available in the stores around here anymore. Pretty shocking to look at myself in the mirror and see no grey up there. It will be interesting how I get perceived in public. I understand and empathize about how you were feeling disrespected and disregarded. My main clue as to how I may be treated differently in absence of the grey hair is: how do they deal with me when it comes to getting my booze purchases authorized at the checkout. I suspect I will get more store clerks wanting to see the actual ID card after this....... If not, then DAMN, I must look really old



 yes. Though society tends to associate hair loss with age, so on the lack of hair criterion alone, they may not ask for your ID. Almost typed “they may not card you”, and now i’m thinking that that phrase may soon join “hang up” and “give me the 411” and many others on the pile of obsolete sayings. But that’s another Dims thread somewhere else….


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## Donna (Apr 18, 2022)

I have a question, but before I ask it, I want to preface that I am asking based solely on personal curiosity, and not to be critical. Since reading this entire thread, and others like it, and given my tendency to pick a subject apart and over-analyze each of the parts without taking the whole into consideration...*.I'm left to wonder why is it important for a lot of FA to feel like they have to explain their attraction to BBW/SSBBW? It seems especially more so for those attracted to us super-size women.** *

Is it because we are considered outside societal norms, or "other"? Is it only because you (FA) have been conditioned that there is something inherently not right about your attraction? And at the risk of sounding sexist, is it just a "guy" thing? 

I think I'm tearing it apart, and obviously missing something important amongst the pieces, because it seems foreign to me. I'm not exclusively attracted to one body type, which may be why I'm curious. Have I missed a critical piece of information here? I understand what attracts you all, but I still can't figure out why it's important to define it?

_(**By the way, and for the record, the term super-size, even though I use it, makes me cringe inwardly because dammit, I am not a McDonalds hamburger, fries & coke. But that's not really my point here, just another subject rolling around in my muddled brainwaves today.) _


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## SSBHM (Apr 18, 2022)

Now I have a super sized happy meal stuck in my mind! Should I associate a SSBBW with a whopper? Oh, oh, should I have written that? 

I don't know how to explain how or why, but I understand the desire to discuss and try to get others to understand, if they don't get you.


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## Rojodi (Apr 18, 2022)

Donna said:


> I have a question, but before I ask it, I want to preface that I am asking based solely on personal curiosity, and not to be critical. Since reading this entire thread, and others like it, and given my tendency to pick a subject apart and over-analyze each of the parts without taking the whole into consideration...*.I'm left to wonder why is it important for a lot of FA to feel like they have to explain their attraction to BBW/SSBBW? It seems especially more so for those attracted to us super-size women.** *
> 
> Is it because we are considered outside societal norms, or "other"? Is it only because you (FA) have been conditioned that there is something inherently not right about your attraction? And at the risk of sounding sexist, is it just a "guy" thing?
> 
> ...



Before the internet, I had NO idea there were categories of BBWs, just that some were larger than others. Even when my mother sold lingerie at parties there were no BBW and SSBBWs, just sizes.


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## Sonic Purity (Apr 19, 2022)

Donna said:


> *I'm left to wonder why is it important for a lot of FA to feel like they have to explain their attraction to BBW/SSBBW? It seems especially more so for those attracted to us super-size women.** *
> 
> Is it because we are considered outside societal norms,


Check.


> or "other"?


Check.


> Is it only because you (FA) have been conditioned that there is something inherently not right about your attraction?


Not “only”, but yes this too.

Welcome to the/an other side of societal fat hate and fat shaming. Thankfully all these factors seem lessened in our modern era where there are a *lot* of publicly visible fat people, many visibly highly intelligent/successful/etc.—harder to casually dismiss, or dismiss at all. From what i’ve read and noticed, the fat shaming is less for fat people and attraction shaming less for FAs (which i use as a non-gendered term).

For those of us who grew up in earlier times, it was far more brutal. Fat people rightfully get the most coverage for this, because existing in a fat body was an inescapable hate magnet 24/7. Admirers with societally-acceptable bodies passed as normal, until anything having to do with their attraction came up, at which point they were susceptible too: stupid, loser, sociopath, insane, secretly gay/lesbian and trying to cover it up (because _who would voluntarily date a _*fat*_ person?!_).

I was a young child in the 1960s and tween/teen in the 1970s. The ONLY time fat people were visible was in comedy routines as the butt of jokes. History informs me NAAFA existed in and around NYC from i think ’69, but it was only starting out, there was noting else, and for a younger person in metro Los Angeles not even interested in love, romance, or sexuality, it might as well have not existed.

Society’s media flooded the world with images of “desirable” women to whom Real Men™ _had_ to be attracted. The Tex Avery cartoons with the wolf going into some sort of club and the sexy Wah-wah-wah _waaah_ wah-wah waaaah music with the curtain drawing back and the woman posing on stage whereby the wolf goes nuts and wolf whistles and howls and pounds the table are especially memorable.

I felt nothing from those. I felt nothing from *any* pictures of women i saw in any media, as well as real women out in the world. For awhile i thought i might be gay, except i wasn’t at all attracted to men either (and everything was binary then—no other possibility). The existence of asexuality as a term seemed still relatively unknown—and of course like other binaries, sex and love were lumped under sex—but i heard or read about it and happily concluded that’s what i was. Family dynamics too long and off-topic to get into here made being an aromantic Highly Rational (Star Trek Mr. Spock-like) being of Science the ultimate goal. I was actually relieved to not have romantic distractions like that poor wolf!

Then came that fateful day when i was a junior in high school, and happened to see the first truly superfat* person i remember seeing—a young woman around my own age! She had to have gone to one of the other high schools in the district, as i’m sure i would have noticed her before.

I’ve written up a whole long so-far-unpublished piece about this event (an apology), so i’m going short on it here.

Within seconds of seeing this amazing and new-to-me body in motion, *Hormone Dam Burst!* I am very serious: it was like a dam being topped in a flood. All sorts of feelings were coursing through me and overwhelming me. I had no idea what was going on, and i was _terrified!_ Remember: my family was all about rationality, reason, and control. Further: emotions were suspect, not to be trusted. Thoughts and words mattered; feelings had no value and were to be ignored.

For me this was a major trauma event which i pushed so far down into my subconscious that i successfully forgot about it for a number of years thereafter. The trauma wasn’t being attracted to a fat person, it was being so emotionally out of control for _any_ reason.

Forming love bonds with anyone was tough for me, and will drag this thread too far off-topic for me to get much into. Summary: when i did first open up to love, my self-esteem was so low, i didn’t think anyone could love me and i didn’t have a choice in the matter of whom might love me. As much by happenstance as anything else, my first real love, in my senior year of university, was average build from a family of fatties. Inside my mind i felt excited at the prospects, but this was the early 1980s and i still hadn’t encountered any sign that anyone on the planet other than me was attracted to fat people, and i knew i was weird—everyone told me, regularly.

That first romance actually turned into a quasi feedist (really: encourager) situation, which was a whole other level of not knowing was a “thing” for anyone else. Very exciting until it stopped and reversed course. We were both young and immature, and each brought a locomotive to our romantic train wreck, none of which had to do with fatness, or really bodies.

Second-ever love of my life i still didn’t think i had a choice. Bonded with someone else at the radio station. We were highly compatible in terms of music, DJ stuff, and quirky world outlooks/senses of humor, and little else. For two people volunteer working in a communications medium, we were horrible communicators. She was average/slender, and i found it nearly impossible to get physically excited enough to have sex.

It wasn’t until 1993 and seeing this:
​that i had any idea anyone else was attracted to fat people. Yes, i joined NAAFA. No, i never used their dating service, because that cost money and i had a Macintosh with modem. No, nothing happened at all until 3 years later, because i’m more romantically incompetent than most of you have any idea. Remains true to this day, and it’s literally slow-death killing me.

So it wasn’t until i was in my 30s that i had any idea that anyone else was attracted to fat people, or that such a thing was even “allowed” and not an extremely deviant behavior. Obviously from the SF Weekly cover, the intersection of “fat” and “sexy” was still a novel concept to the general public, and many like me who lacked social connections to anyone already part of the fatosphere.

1996 during my too-brief time working at Apple, fat appreciation in at least some parts of the organization remained joke fodder—which was weird, given the number of beautiful and beautifully fat people (i noticed those presenting as women, but men too) i encountered from my first day. The joke was a gag gift some members of the group got a manager? who was leaving the team for better things. I wasn’t at all a part of it, so i don’t know the setup. I only remember loud talk and laughter and hearing “fat”, which drew my attention. Walked over and those involved (all men, about 3 or 4) were holding a copy of “FAT Extrem, Silwa Special” (there is no e on the end of Extrem), with Teighlor in all her nude corpulent glory on the cover. They treated it as though the magazine was toxic, the way they held it away and kept passing it back and forth like a hot potato.

When the fun was over, it was headed to the trash. That’s when i spoke up.
“May i have that, please?”
I can’t even picture the face of the person, much less their name. He gave me an {Ohhh kaaay, you freak} look, saying something like, “Uh, sure. Are you… actually into this?”
“Yes. Thanks!”
I walked away, the others shaking their heads.

So yeah… this was an attraction that generally needed to be justified, well into the middle 1990s at least. Hence all the wondering where this “different” attraction came from, evidenced in this and many earlier threads across the online fatosphere and likely elsewhere.



> And at the risk of sounding sexist, is it just a "guy" thing?


I’m unqualified to answer this. I’ve noticed mixed-gender participation over the years in earlier threads of this nature, biased male. Anyone _not_ assigned male at birth/raised as a boy/man, who’s an FA, care to comment?



> I think I'm tearing it apart, and obviously missing something important amongst the pieces, because it seems foreign to me. I'm not exclusively attracted to one body type, which may be why I'm curious. Have I missed a critical piece of information here? I understand what attracts you all, but I still can't figure out why it's important to define it?



Because it’s super-powerful and non-standard (20th. century historically, anyway), is about all i have for a summary. I *am* attracted to a whole range of body types, as long as they’re fat and (loose definition) femme. The extreme diversity of fat bodies is one aspect of the draw.

_



(**By the way, and for the record, the term super-size, even though I use it, makes me cringe inwardly because dammit, I am not a McDonalds hamburger, fries & coke. But that's not really my point here, just another subject rolling around in my muddled brainwaves today.)

Click to expand...

_
* I’m with you, Donna, on “supersize” being used for people being/feeling kinda icky inappropriate/dehumanizing. What i’m seeing elsewhere in the online fatosphere is a shift towards smallfat, superfat, and infinifat. Rough equivalence:

Smallfat ≈ BBW/BHM, fat
Superfat ≈ SSBBW/SSBHM, supersize(d)
Infinifat ≈ USBBW/USBHM, ultrasize(d)

It’s unclear to me whether plump/“plumpers” get included in smallfat or not, and i’ve yet to see newer terminology for this lovable, lush category.

Advantage of the new terminology: drops gender.
Disadvantage of the new terminology: tougher to abbreviate. The first two both abbreviate to SF, which for most of the world has one or more very different meanings. SMF and SUF and INF?

Since there seems to be a shift, anyone with superior new terminology may have an opening. I myself don’t have anything better.

****
Since today’s Irrelevant Aside Day, props on your (Donna’s) current avatar pic, which i consider Dangerously Lovable. Hope it’s widely appreciated without drawing unwanted attention to you and your message box.


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## loopytheone (Apr 19, 2022)

Non-male FA chiming in here, as requested. I'm in an interesting position as I'm both fat and an FA attracted to any gender, so I can see things from both perspectives. 

I agree with what Sonic is saying in that you are very much made to feel deviant and wrong for finding fat people attractive. Not to mention that, growing up, the narrative I heard from people about FAs was that they were either: a) sick in the head, b) going to force feed you against your will, c) only attracted to the fat and not the person or d) trying to make you 'less attractive' so you couldn't leave/they could control you. Now, I'm not saying that there aren't people out there who fit these catergories, because no matter what group you look at, you will always find assholes. But when you spend years of your life being told you are sick/evil/wrong for liking something, you inevitably start questioning if that is true, or why you like the thing. Especially as most of us realise this attraction when we are teens/younger and more suspectible to societal pressure.

Growing up, being fat was seen as a source of shame. You were worth less, and assumed to lack control/self respect etc etc. But FAs were considered twisted, sick individuals that were morally void and explotative/dangerous. It is much easier to hide being an FA than being fat, but it comes with a whole bunch of more intensely nasty assumptions about your morality/mental state. It's only normal that you will go through some deep thinking about yourself as a person and your attractions and such if you are growing up being told you're a terrible person for it. 

Honestly, I still have never admitted my FAness to my family, even when they have tried to slyly ask. They would not understand and frankly, it's none of their business. I remember my mother asking outright once, with pure disgust in her voice, whether or not I was some sort of 'sick feeder'. ...because I sent chocolate to my partner at the time, who was a SSBHM (sorry, I know some people don't like those terms but its what works for me). I said no, because she is my mother and I love her and don't want to get into these things with her. 

But yeah, I know a huge leap in my mental health happened when I learnt to accept being an FA and that I could be so without being a bad person. It's hard to unlearn all the lessons your family taught you as a child. I still have episodes of guilt about it, even to this day, but they are brief and less intense. But part of the reason I am so passionate about Dims is because this is one of the places that helped me realise, as a teenager, that it was okay to be who I am and that I'm not some sort of terrible person because of it. I lurked here a long time before I was old enough to make an account, and I bet there are some young people now doing the same. And if I can offer them some of the help and understanding people here offered me, then everything I share is worth it.


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## Donna (Apr 19, 2022)

Thank you all for responding to my question without tearing me apart. Even at my advanced age, or as Waldo likes to say, my "mature" age, I think I know all there is to know about size acceptance, FA, and this funny thing called inter-personal relationships, I am reminded that I am far more naive' than I claim. 

And Sonic, thank you for the avatar compliment. I guess this one doesn't make me look like a clown?


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## Sonic Purity (Apr 19, 2022)

loopytheone said:


> Non-male FA chiming in here, as requested. I'm in an interesting position as I'm both fat and an FA attracted to any gender, so I can see things from both perspectives.



Thank you *so much* for your post, loopy! It added significantly to this discussion, with a perspective from several ways of being that few people have.



Donna said:


> And Sonic, thank you for the avatar compliment. I guess this one doesn't make me look like a clown?



Not even slightly.

For our Dims peers: i have had the great honor of having extensive private messaging text conversations with Donna these past few weeks. I was sharing with her my raw, unfiltered thoughts regarding a series of her pics, including her avatar pics here. While in some ways pleasant, her avatar picture pic before this one had some disturbing effects in terms of her eyes and eyebrows—at least to my eyes viewed on my usual screen. To me she was suddenly Donna the Scary Clown. Disturbing to look at, and i knew from the honor of seeing her other pics, an anomaly. I am in a position of authority to say that her current avatar pic on 19 April 2022 at 5:36 PM UTC (or 10:36 AM Pacific Time) is not only lovely but representative of Donna as she graces us as part of our community.


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## Colonial Warrior (Apr 19, 2022)

Why we have to explain something as what I feel when I see so much beautifulness before my eyes?

Jaclove87 beautiful ssbbw by computerwiz26 on DeviantArt

jaqlove87 04 by computerwiz26 on DeviantArt


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## waldo (Apr 20, 2022)

Colonial Warrior said:


> Why we have to explain something as what I feel when I see so much beautifulness before my eyes?
> 
> View attachment 149328
> View attachment 149329



OMG!!!!!!!!!!! She is a gorgeous woman!!! Is that your girlfriend or wife?? If so, then..... bloody hell, man!! lucky you  
You are right that it really can and probably should be just as simple as what/who we see and respond to positively in terms of being beautiful is what we, as an individual, 'prefer'. I guess that if one were to sum up the phenomenon of the 'fat admirer' it could be pretty effectively done by trotting out that old cliche (I love old cliches by the way) "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Nobody is ever going to convince me (short of a lobotomy) that those arms, that belly, that ass, and those thick legs are not so smoking hot and so inherently beautiful. I suppose it is a big part of what makes us vibrant to be able to just appreciate the beauty we see in the world whether it be in other people or any other natural or even man made item (like art work). Yes I am objectifying, but sometimes objectification is just a part of the life experience. It is probably more how you treat that person, whom you are objectifying, that ultimately matters.... Then again, what do I know


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## waldo (Apr 20, 2022)

extra_m13 said:


> well if i had to explain in an honest way my attraction to fat women... it would probably be this. even is no one reads i will try to give a comprehensive answer evern if it is just for me. childhood had nothing in particular but... the fact that my mom usually pressed my sisters to be skinny and she herself tried really hard to be skinny all the time. so being chubby and being ok with it felt like a way to rebel to the statuquo which is for me very sexy and has a close taste to freedom and rebelling to the whatever it is supposed to be. now at 10-11-12 years old i began to see my classmates underskirts whenever i could and of course there were some chubby and some skinny ones. and by fat i preferred to see those chubby legs with cellulite and rolls and bellies, the skinny ones make me feel pretty much nothing even do as a kid i used to like a couple of skinny girls.
> 
> first few girls i dated and kissed, this around 15years old , i noticed i went after the chub and it was a delicious thing so after noticing my dick reacting to that i decided... what is the point of getting the fit girl and trying to grab some roll here and there? why not try to just get the curvier girl? and it was so, and it was a delicious thing and it was pure pleasure but... i wanted bigger. so at the end the strategy shifted to first look to date the chubby girl and try to make her gain some. because it is hot and erotic to see a lady eat more than what she should according to some dumb doctor and because it is so hot to grab rolls and fat and cellulite... that i feel everyday todaywhat is the point of getting the fit girl and trying to grab some roll here and there? why not try to just get the curvier girl? and it was so, and it was a delicious thing and it was pure pleasure



Well you can rest assured that at least one person read and appreciated your comments!! Maybe that idea of rebelling against societal norms is part of what makes us FAs desire what we do because it is mostly still socially unacceptable (aka FAs are naturally rebels against societal standards). It is like there really are fat people (few but still they are out there), who literally get off on the negative comments and stares, etc. from others. I remember one time being at the state fair and seeing a woman (probably 30 something) sitting on a bench with what appeared to be her husband and several kids all standing close by. She was really fat, like probably 5-600ish pounds. She saw me checking her out VERY closely, and I will never forget the look on her face. She was almost 'beaming' and smiling in a way I still can't wrap my head around to this day (and this was over 15 years ago). I think she was one of those rare people who loved being super fat and actually saw public exposure and people gawking not as a cross to bear but something she got a kick out of....... Then again maybe it was just my imagination...... But yeah no doubt she was a happy fat lady, that part I know - that was no painted on smile!

You really did nail the simple heart of the matter in this section of your post:

"first few girls i dated and kissed, this around 15years old , i noticed i went after the chub and it was a delicious thing so a*fter noticing my dick reacting* to that i decided... what is the point of getting the fit girl and trying to grab some roll here and there? why not try to just get the curvier girl? and it was so, and it was a delicious thing and it was pure pleasure"

The point here being your dick was telling you what you liked and desired. That little guy's 'opinion' should not be denied. Yes, men think with our dicks; and while that is normally used as ammunition for denigrating men (in general) as neanderthals, the reality is that we are doing what is natural to us. THe key is in processing our feelings and acting accordingly in a respectful way.

This brings me to the part of the post where you said:
"but... i wanted bigger. so at the end *the strategy shifted to first look to date the chubby girl and try to make her gain some*. because it is hot and erotic to see a lady eat more than what she should according to some dumb doctor and because it is so hot to grab rolls and fat and cellulite... that i feel everyday today "

Well.... I think you have been around Dims long enough to know that there was a time when that sentiment would have gotten you roasted over the coals by a large number of angry fellow posters, accusing you of being a heartless feeder only in it for your own sexual gratification. I will give the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant to say 'try to encourage her to gain some'. See just one word difference (encourage versus make) could really have a huge difference on how it is perceived. Is it still feederism that is manipulative? Yeah, I think so, unless you knew going in that she was into gaining. Are you an anomoly? No, I think you are more of a norm. FAs will marry a smaller BBW and hope she fattens into the SSBBW of their desires. I think it is just a little more 'socially acceptable' than going with someone who is massively fat from day 1. Then you get to 'pretend' yopu are such a great guy who 'stuck by his woman even when she got super fat'. This is what was once referred to as the 'stealth FA effect'. But again, at the end of the day it is more about how you treat your significant other regardless of kinks, and whatever other social constructs get put in your path. Treat people well and good things will usually happen.............


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## Colonial Warrior (Apr 20, 2022)

waldo said:


> OMG!!!!!!!!!!! She is a gorgeous woman!!! Is that your girlfriend or wife?? If so, then..... bloody hell, man!! lucky you
> You are right that it really can and probably should be just as simple as what/who we see and respond to positively in terms of being beautiful is what we, as an individual, 'prefer'. I guess that if one were to sum up the phenomenon of the 'fat admirer' it could be pretty effectively done by trotting out that old cliche (I love old cliches by the way) "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Nobody is ever going to convince me (short of a lobotomy) that those arms, that belly, that ass, and those thick legs are not so smoking hot and so inherently beautiful. I suppose it is a big part of what makes us vibrant to be able to just appreciate the beauty we see in the world whether it be in other people or any other natural or even man made item (like art work). Yes I am objectifying, but sometimes objectification is just a part of the life experience. It is probably more how you treat that person, whom you are objectifying, that ultimately matters.... Then again, what do I know


No!

It's only a model. I don't know too much about her.

I have found those images at DeviantArt!


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## Sonic Purity (Apr 20, 2022)

waldo said:


> Maybe that idea of rebelling against societal norms is part of what makes us FAs desire what we do because it is mostly still socially unacceptable (aka FAs are naturally rebels against societal standards).



Don’t know about that—maybe, maybe not—but might make it easier. Not only was i rebelling, but i was already being _rejected_ from mainline society in adolescence. Very used to being a loner with very few friends, so peer pressure wasn’t part of my life. Within the limits most of us had in adolescence, i did whatever the eff i wanted. I was already considered a weird nerd, so there was no downside.

That whole way of being was in place years before my romantic and sexual desires awoke, so years after that awakening when i finally made it to actual fat women, i never had the apparently-common “closeted FA” issue. I was delighted to be with BBW Siber Hussy, whatever we were doing.



> It is like there really are fat people (few but still they are out there), who literally get off on the negative comments and stares, etc. from others. I remember one time being at the state fair[…]



Wow—great real-life story! Thanks for sharing that.



> Yes, men think with our dicks; and while that is normally used as ammunition for denigrating men (in general) as neanderthals, the reality is that we are doing what is natural to us. THe key is in processing our feelings and acting accordingly in a respectful way.



The woman within me thanks you greatly for confirming i’m not actually a man, despite what my body and DNA tell me, since that’s never been my reality. You’re using common parlance, and i guess no one can fault you for that, but _think_ with dicks? Innate genetic genital _response_ i can go with, but _thinking_? Women often write about getting wet, but i can’t recall any of them claiming that there was a controlling intelligence down there.

Pleeeeaaase everyone, watch out for the sweeping generalizations, and perhaps qualify with “most” or “a majority” or similar. As i might have already written earlier in this thread, in private messaging middle of last decade, an otherwise-fine fat woman over on Fantasy Feeder tossed me a sweeping generalization so hurtful and callous in the immediate context of what had been a discussion of sensitive topics that i dropped out of that site so long, they deleted my account (and only a year prior i’d been a beta tester for the site redesign, working with the site owner).

You are correct that it is a natural response, and it’s what the penis owner does with that response and the related feelings which makes the difference between a fun, sexy civil society and a toxic, creepy world.



> This brings me to the part of the post where you said:
> "but... i wanted bigger. so at the end *the strategy shifted to first look to date the chubby girl and try to make her gain some*.[…]"
> 
> Well.... I think you have been around Dims long enough to know that there was a time when that sentiment would have gotten you roasted over the coals by a large number of angry fellow posters, accusing you of being a heartless feeder only in it for your own sexual gratification. I will give the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant to say 'try to encourage her to gain some'. See just one word difference (encourage versus make) could really have a huge difference on how it is perceived.



Thank you for making my point above, as well as yours here! I’ll give a pass to “Men respond with our dicks” rather than “think” with them.



> Is it still feederism that is manipulative? Yeah, I think so, unless you knew going in that she was into gaining.



tl;dr: I basically agree (other than i use “feedism” rather than “feederism”, which is more letters and centers everything on the feeder rather than making things equal).

Unabridged:
There are so many other threads on feedism that as much as it’s an important topic, please let’s not make this thread one of those, unless feedism was core to your (anyone posting’s) root origin of attraction.

I’ve had a long, winding, challenging personal road with this, and i’m so tired of being Wrong and Judged that it’s really telling me i don’t belong amongst humanity.

Am i a feeder? No, unless i’m with a feedee who by *her *choice is powerfully driven to fatten. Some actual real people across the gender spectrum have that desire, sometimes (i’ve read) to an overwhelming degree.

The stereotype of a feeder wanting to change a feedee/love interest for the feeder’s tastes/desires without taking into consideration what the person carrying the fat wants stomps one of my NO! buttons hard. To me someone saying, “You know, you’d really [look a lot better | be a lot sexier] if you [gained a little weight | were fatter]” is the _mirror image_ of someone thinking their love interest is getting too fat, maybe saying, “You know, you’re getting a little chunky there. You’d really [look a lot better | be a lot sexier] if you dropped some of the flab.”

*Expecting or demanding someone else change their body in any way to suit one’s personal tastes/needs/etc. is FAILING to wholly embrace and love them as they are.*

That’s my button: never being good enough/accepted/loved as i am. The outer-societal stereotype of the controlling feeder changing the feedee for the feeder’s desires is basically shouting: “I don’t fully embrace and accept you as you are. I’m going to change you”.

Sure, we have tastes and desires, and we can make requests and likely should be honest about them rather than pretending they don’t exist. So i guess to me it’s a matter of control/demand versus sharing a desire and leaving the other party we desire as the empowered one wholly in control of their own body.

I do like fat, and i do like more of it. Since my body is incapable of that, i have no power to fatten myself up and enjoy fat that way, so i need my fat fix (and yes, it may be an addiction. Feels like a life and death need to me at this point) from other people. I can’t ever _demand_ that—there is no entitlement—so i have to try and make myself lovable and desirable and hope for the best. So far… mmmm… things haven’t been working out.

I’m on Fantasy Feeder (which i consider my home site) and Feabie (don’t especially like it; not there much) because those are two places feedists and those who may not be feedists but who want to get fatter or be part of the lives of others getting fatter go. I get judged less, other than on Feabie where i’m judged because i’m _not_ fat and not getting fatter.



> Treat people well and good things will usually happen.............



Until they evolve in their own lives to being asexual and aromantic and as now-ex live-in loves make your life a living hell, looking to the outer world as a couple when grocery shopping together etc. and thinking there’s something wrong with you that as you age you’re not only staying sexual but your drive is increasing and they won’t even hug or cuddle or hold hands any more, yeah. Oh sorry everyone, got into my own stuff, and waldo did write “usually”.

*****
Thanks again to those posting here for taking the time and making the effort to share and discuss. It seems to drift away now and again from my original post, but i guess that’s how real-life discussions go, and i’m certainly dragging things all over the place. So… carry on.


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## waldo (Apr 21, 2022)

never mind


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## luckyfa (May 26, 2022)

Donna said:


> *I'm left to wonder why is it important for a lot of FA to feel like they have to explain their attraction to BBW/SSBBW? It seems especially more so for those attracted to us super-size women.** *



This is a very pertinent question. I have watched this thread for a while without writing anything because I somehow had this question in my mind. And you’re spot on with your answers! In addition to that, trying to explain my desire for fat women is impossible because the very attempt would end up in an infinite regression. Let‘s give an example. „I am attracted to fat women because I like the softness of a fat female belly, in a particular a fat female double belly.“ Is this a sufficient answer? Of course not because it begs the question:“Why do you like the softness of a fat female belly, and why does it have to be a double belly?“ The answer to this question begs the next and so on and so forth. I stopped trying to figure it out a long time ago.


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## Dromond (Jun 8, 2022)

I don't have an explanation for my attraction to BBWs, etc. The "why" of it doesn't matter to me. My second girlfriend was a BBW, and every woman I've dated or married (legally married once, then widowed, then life partnered, now single) since has been. This isn't something that has tortured my soul, nor have I cared what anyone else thought. I'm fairly oblivious to negative opinions. It's just me. It's just how I am. That is enough.


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## Orso (Jul 7, 2022)

I know how I became an FA, and I told it a couple of times in this forum, last time just a few hours ago


Orso said:


> It happened long, long time ago when I was 12 or so. A friend and I were talking about girls, and BBW, the mother of another boy, walked by. My friend looked at her and said (I remember the words exactly) "Look at her, just think what it would be making love to her, with her gorgeous soft flesh! Think what would be having under you soft fat and not bones sticking out!"
> I laughed and made fun of my friend, but his words evidently left a deep impression on me, because I began fantasizing more and more of BBWs and of their abundance of flesh, and in a short time I became an FA.......


but understanding why is another thing. Definitely one of the reasons is that I'm atttracted to the soft, sensuous warm body of a BBW., but I think that there are other reasons.

In any handbook of physical anthropology one reads that the bodies of women are characterized by a larger amount of fat than a male body, wider hips and breasts. So, the body of a BBW is inherently more feminine than the body of a slim woman and it broadcasts very strong feminine signals. Indeed the discoverer of the Venus of Hohle Fels, the most ancient of the Paleolithic BBW Venuses, descibes her as "an extremely powerful depiction of the essence of being female". This could explain why FAs are attracted to BBWs, but the true problem is another. Why only FAs are sensitive to this super-femininity? Could it be that we are confident enough in our maleness that we dare to face the Quintessential Woman and we feel up to the task? Or on the contrary, are we unsure of our maleness and we need a super-woman near us to be confident?
I don't like psychoanalythic interpretations like these because it's possible to say easily one thing and the absolute contrary, just like in this case. So I don't know why I am attracted to BBWS.

I just know that when I am with a BBW happy about herself and the world I feel a special, sweet, quiet, radiant, glowing feeling emanating from her, I have the feeling of being close to a spontaneous, natural being, the feeling of having beside me Femininity, the Woman, the Nature, maybe Mother Nature. It is a matter of deep feelings, it is difficult for me to express them in words, especially in English, I just hope that I could make myself understood. It could be said that sometimes I feel the mystical side of a BBW.


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