# what happened to "The Thread for SSBBWs 450+ "



## xoxoshelby

I've been following this thread and got an email that there was a new post, but now it's gone?


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## Wagimawr

It's probably been moved to the Clubhouse - BigBeautifulMe posted that there was going to be a safe and secure place for it soon.


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## ThatFatGirl

Nope.. not in the clubhouse. It has mysteriously disappeared. BBMe said something about it moving to a new place in her last post. I think it might be in thread purgatory for the moment. It will probably pop up again, maybe on a new board? Who knows!


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## xoxoshelby

Well thats kinda unfair for those who can't see it now and were reading it. It's like I'm being punished because I can't afford to donate to dimensions. Oh well.


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## xoxoshelby

ThatFatGirl said:


> Nope.. not in the clubhouse. It has mysteriously disappeared. BBMe said something about it moving to a new place in her last post. I think it might be in thread purgatory for the moment. It will probably pop up again, maybe on a new board? Who knows!



I hope you're right!


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## AnnMarie

It's in its own area, I don't believe the ability to join/request membership has been established... but it will be, no worries.


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## AnnMarie

xoxoshelby said:


> Well thats kinda unfair for those who can't see it now and were reading it. It's like I'm being punished because I can't afford to donate to dimensions. Oh well.



It's not in the clubhouse, there is no punishment.


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## NancyGirl74

AnnMarie said:


> It's in its own area, I don't believe the ability to join/request membership has been established... but it will be, no worries.




Does that mean us under-450 gals aren't allowed to even read it?


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## AnnMarie

NancyGirl74 said:


> Does that mean us under-450 gals aren't allowed to even read it?



I don't have any more info, sorry to say, but I'm pretty sure there won't be a scale at the door? lol

If that's the case, I'm SOL as well... under 450 here.


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## NancyGirl74

AnnMarie said:


> I don't have any more info, sorry to say, but I'm pretty sure there won't be a scale at the door? lol
> 
> If that's the case, I'm SOL as well... under 450 here.



*adds layers and stuffs pockets just in case*


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## k1009

If there's an option to view it, I'd really like to. The issues my brother and I have with getting cars to fit our height (and my size) somewhat parallel those discussed in the thread. There were some useful car suggestions that I'd like him to take shopping in Feb as I borrow his regularly .


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## mango

*.... Maybe it vanished into fat air??

*


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## stan_der_man

... on the shores of Bermuda!







I hope BigBeautifulMe gets that autograph from Elvis she promised me.


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## supersoup

sounds like some space age stuffs.


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## stan_der_man

If the thread returns and they all have nice tans...



... then my theory was correct!


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## TallFatSue

mango said:


> ... Maybe it vanished into fat air??


What? It's gone?? Dagnabbit! I had added some halfway decent posts there and it was soooo good to compare perspectives with other women my size or "better" (  ). This morning I was just about to add some notes about my major winter nemesis -- ice (= slip crash on my big fat ass) -- when I noticed the entire thread had vanished. It is a puzzlement.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster

I'm wondering how on earth I missed the thread in the first place?!


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## LillyBBBW

I'm going through withdrawals. It was a good thread.


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## TallFatSue

LillyBBBW said:


> I'm going through withdrawals. It was a good thread.


The thread seems to be well and truly gone, so maybe we should re-create it. Let me see, I can't remember everything I posted, so I'll try again.

Someone began by saying that 450lb seemed to be a major threshold for her, and I agreed because that's about my present weight and now I have just a hint of mobility problems. Of course some of this is because I'm now over 50 with the usual wear and tear of middle age. I've also carried around a few (hundred) pounds of extra body fat for most of my life. Luckily I'm 6ft tall, so my frame has plenty of space for my fat, but 450lb is still 450lb. Doubly luckily, my engineer husband Art is so completely smitten with my "super structure" that he gives me ecstatic full-body massages to soothe the aches and pains. His foot and leg massages are incredible. I can stay on my feet a surprisingly long time, provided I keep moving, but I can't just stand for very long.

Speaking of feet, at this weight I might tend to lumber when I walk, if I don't make a conscious effort to put a bounce into my step. I'm generally a happy person, so it's almost second nature for me to walk tall with a bounce in my step, but that brings another interesting problem: fat bounces! If I walk at a certain intermediate pace with too much of a bounce in my step, my fat shakes around so much it can affect my balance somewhat. Not that I'm in any danger of falling over ("timber!"), but I can feel actually my center of balance shifting around with each step. My husband calls it "fat resonance", so I've semi-consciously worked out good compromises of step bounce vs. walking pace. Art said he be happy to draft chart of bounce vs. pace for me (those engineers are always thinking!), but I don't need to get into THAT much detail. Besides, I'm an office manager at an accounting firm, so I know how to deal with large figures. 

At my size, whenever I shop for a car, I need to try them on for fit as well as features, almost like shoes. It can be the perfect car in every other consideration, but if my belly won't fit behind the steering wheel and my double-wide ass won't fit comfortably into the seat, then I can't drive it. Yes, I could probably have a smaller steering wheel installed, but I'd rather not deal with retrofits. Luckily it helps to be tall, because I can move the seat all the way back and still reach the pedals, but I drive a Honda CR-V and my belly clears the steering wheel by only about an inch. And believe it or not, I can use the seat belt without an extender but only barely, and the shoulder harness is a very stylish boob separator too. Once or twice as I've maneuvered my massive bulk into and out of my car, one of my breasts hit the horn, so my sweet husband (who is a wise ass just like me) sometimes refers to my boobage as "honkers". 

Of course as I reached this weight, the issue of seating took on a whole new dimension. When I was "only" 300lb or so, my concern with seating was basically "will I fit?" Now I'm equally concerned with "will it collapse?" but at my size fewer and fewer chairs fit me at all. Then there are the evil comfy chairs and sofas that do fit me, but swallow my ass so I almost need a crane to haul myself out of them. Luckily my home and office environments, where I spend the bulk (pun intended) of my daily life, are well suited to accommodate my size. We made sure our household furniture can handle my weight, especially my beloved recliner, and our king-sized bed has extra strong supports ("I need it to support at least 500lb, and my husband & I also make whoopie a lot."). At work, I treated myself to a heavy-duty office chair with a 500lb capacity and plenty of space between the arms for my thighs. Usually I wheel my chair down the hall to the conference room for meetings, and it seems to be a popular chair because it's fun to watch other people sit in it ("I'm sorry, you're not nearly fat enough to sit in my chair", making it sound like a privilege to be my size  ).

There's much to be said for stability, and I was happy to find that after I reached 450lb I could eat anything and not gain more weight. It was something of a relief not to keep getting bigger, because whenever I changed wardrobes from season to season and I would always find that some clothes from the previous year didn't fit me anymore. I've never had a drastic weight gain; instead it was more of one long slow gain all my life until my mid 40s, so my body has adjusted very well to my weight. My fat is also very evenly distributed, so I'm very well proportioned and balanced and don't have the back problems other fat women have mentioned. Methinx other SSBBW who gained most of their weight as adults might have more size-related issues than I do. My doctor says I'm in amazingly good health even at my weight, and one example of how well my body has adjusted to my weight is that apparently I have the biggest pair of lungs she has ever seen. That probably explains why whenever I have the hiccups, people can hear me in the next county! 

Next I could go on and on about trying to buy good fashionable clothes that fit me, but I'll save that for another time. I will say that I often wear men's shoes because they look pretty good on me, and they handle my weight much better than a lot of women's shoes. I rarely wear high heels anyway because I'm tall enough and at my weight heels hurt. On certain special occasions when I want to make a statement I do wear high heels, but at my height I find many men try not to stare at my F-cup breasts *too* obviously, when they talk to my chest instead of my face. It is amusing when they begin to stutter, though. 

Okay, that's enough for now. I'm sure I'll come up with more later. When all is said and done, I didn't try to gain so much weight, but I sure didn't try to stop either. And despite the challenges of being so big, it has been a net positive in my life because it forces me to think creatively and independently, and my fat has also helped teach me what is and is not truly important in life. Life is good.


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## LillyBBBW

TallFatSue said:


> <snipped>....Then there are the evil comfy chairs and sofas that do fit me, but swallow my ass so I almost need a crane to haul myself out of them. Luckily my home and office environments, where I spend the bulk (pun intended) of my daily life, are well suited to accommodate my size. We made sure our household furniture can handle my weight, especially my beloved recliner, and our king-sized bed has extra strong supports ("I need it to support at least 500lb, and my husband & I also make whoopie a lot."). ....<snipped>



That's another thing that has been on my mind. I'm going to have to move sometime in June/July and I'm thinking it's time for some new furniture. How much money do I have to spend to get stuff that's comfortable and that I can get in and out of without handlebars?


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## imfree

fa_man_stan said:


> ... on the shores of Bermuda!
> 
> I hope BigBeautifulMe gets that autograph from Elvis she promised me.




That's VERY interesting, Stan.


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## stan_der_man

imfree said:


> fa_man_stan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... on the shores of Bermuda!
> ...
> I hope BigBeautifulMe gets that autograph from Elvis she promised me.
> 
> 
> 
> That's VERY interesting, Stan.
Click to expand...


Trust me, I'll post it if they ever return and I get that autograph from Elvis...


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## imfree

fa_man_stan said:


> Trust me, I'll post it if they ever return and I get that autograph from Elvis...



I liked that map. Bermuda Triangle theories always interested me. I'll probably look to see how magnetic conjugates line up over the triangle. Good stuff for 
my technothread.


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## AnnMarie

The thread is not gone.... be patient people, things will be back soon enough.


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## BigBeautifulMe

Don't worry, the SSBBWs 450+ thread isn't gone for good. Our wonderful Webmaster, Conrad, decided this thread addressed an important need in our community, and has decided to do it justice by creating an entire forum specifically for this group of people. I am honored to have been asked to be moderator of this new forum, and the rest of the moderators and I are currently discussing what membership requirements would be. Basically, we're working on keeping membership open to as many people as possible, while still making it a safe place for supersize people to discuss sensitive issues. Please stay tuned to this thread for updates, and be patient with us - we're trying to make sure we do the best we can for this community.  Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.


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## CleverBomb

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Don't worry, the SSBBWs 450+ thread isn't gone for good. Our wonderful Webmaster, Conrad, decided this thread addressed an important need in our community, and has decided to do it justice by creating an entire forum specifically for this group of people. I am honored to have been asked to be moderator of this new forum, and the rest of the moderators and I are currently discussing what membership requirements would be. Basically, we're working on keeping membership open to as many people as possible, while still making it a safe place for supersize people to discuss sensitive issues. Please stay tuned to this thread for updates, and be patient with us - we're trying to make sure we do the best we can for this community.  Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.


This seems a promising development 
I look forward to seeing how it turns out!
-Rusty


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## FatAndProud

mango said:


> *.... Maybe it vanished into fat air??
> 
> *



lol wtf, why did this make me laugh? i dunno....jeez.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Don't worry, the SSBBWs 450+ thread isn't gone for good. Our wonderful Webmaster, Conrad, decided this thread addressed an important need in our community, and has decided to do it justice by creating an entire forum specifically for this group of people. I am honored to have been asked to be moderator of this new forum, and the rest of the moderators and I are currently discussing what membership requirements would be. Basically, we're working on keeping membership open to as many people as possible, while still making it a safe place for supersize people to discuss sensitive issues. Please stay tuned to this thread for updates, and be patient with us - we're trying to make sure we do the best we can for this community.  Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.




That's awesome! I have longed for a forum like that for a long time!!!


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## Shosh

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Don't worry, the SSBBWs 450+ thread isn't gone for good. Our wonderful Webmaster, Conrad, decided this thread addressed an important need in our community, and has decided to do it justice by creating an entire forum specifically for this group of people. I am honored to have been asked to be moderator of this new forum, and the rest of the moderators and I are currently discussing what membership requirements would be. Basically, we're working on keeping membership open to as many people as possible, while still making it a safe place for supersize people to discuss sensitive issues. Please stay tuned to this thread for updates, and be patient with us - we're trying to make sure we do the best we can for this community.  Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.




Good on ya love.


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## Emma

I understand that people don't want the thread to be used as "wank fodder" but there could be a lot of interesting information for us slightly smaller girls. I do feel slightly miffed that I won't be able to read it anymore.


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## Shosh

CurvyEm said:


> I understand that people don't want the thread to be used as "wank fodder" but there could be a lot of interesting information for us slightly smaller girls. I do feel slightly miffed that I won't be able to read it anymore.



It is sad that the women even have to worry about their thread being used for unsavoury purposes. Look masterbation is fine, don't jump on me for that. The very concern that the thread has to be protected from that is sad. Can some people not have decorum and control themselves, and realize that not everything in life is about sex and carnal desires?
I agree with Em, as a 300 pound girl for more than a decade and a smaller girl now, I would also like to be able to at least read the thread if only just to be in solidarity with the ladies.


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## James

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Don't worry, the SSBBWs 450+ thread isn't gone for good. Our wonderful Webmaster, Conrad, decided this thread addressed an important need in our community, and has decided to do it justice by creating an entire forum specifically for this group of people. I am honored to have been asked to be moderator of this new forum, and the rest of the moderators and I are currently discussing what membership requirements would be. Basically, we're working on keeping membership open to as many people as possible, while still making it a safe place for supersize people to discuss sensitive issues. Please stay tuned to this thread for updates, and be patient with us - we're trying to make sure we do the best we can for this community.  Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.



Thats great news Ginny! I think a forum like that would be an excellent resource. A sensitive discussion on the reality of supersize, between those that are supersized would surely be of great benefit to the community here.


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## TallFatSue

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Don't worry, the SSBBWs 450+ thread isn't gone for good. Our wonderful Webmaster, Conrad, decided this thread addressed an important need in our community, and has decided to do it justice by creating an entire forum specifically for this group of people. I am honored to have been asked to be moderator of this new forum, and the rest of the moderators and I are currently discussing what membership requirements would be. Basically, we're working on keeping membership open to as many people as possible, while still making it a safe place for supersize people to discuss sensitive issues. Please stay tuned to this thread for updates, and be patient with us - we're trying to make sure we do the best we can for this community.  Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.


Wonderful news, which only goes to show that Conrad may be the best supporter a SSBBW could have (except for my husband of course). Conrad is a class act all the way. Not only does he go far above and beyond the call of duty to make life better for us, but his extraordinary work speaks volumes for itself without any need for him to call special attention to it. I'll eat an extra, no, TWO extra pieces of Swiss Chocolate Cake today, as a toast in his honor. :eat2: And I'll put an extra bounce into my step as I walk just to, er, shake things up a little . Hips hips hooray! 

Well, now that I've gotten that off my abundant chest… I've longed for a forum about the reality of supersize too. Somehow I've muddled through pretty well since pre-historic, er I mean, pre-internet times, but few of my friends are as fat as I am, so I mostly forged my own path as a supersize woman. I had found a women-only SSBBW Yahoogroup that boded well for sensitive discussions, but it ran out of steam pretty quickly because many of the women are pretty negative about themselves, and my positive attitude can take that only so long. Since I discovered Dimensions, I've gleaned an amazing amount of fat acceptance and, equally importantly, fat logistical advice. I hope that some of my experiences have helped others too. 

It would be terrific if we had a safe sensitive supersize forum where we could discuss sensitive issue without worrying about some of the less couth men amongst us whooping and hollering in the background. To be honest, I don't particularly object to men using some of my experiences as wank fodder, and in fact as a middle-aged obese woman I'm downright flattered by it. I just wish they'd be quiet and civil about it.


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## ThatFatGirl

CurvyEm said:


> I understand that people don't want the thread to be used as "wank fodder" but there could be a lot of interesting information for us slightly smaller girls. I do feel slightly miffed that I won't be able to read it anymore.



We haven't been given any guidelines of the board yet, Em, so I'd relax for now. I don't think there's any way to weigh people before they sign up for the board to make sure they weigh at least 450 and if we have to scan our driver's licenses for proof, I'm screwed (mine says I'm a lean 325 ). I'm sure there are many here who don't even know their weight, only what it was the last time they were able to check.

I think there's no question the board will have info useful to smaller bbw's. I can't wait to see how it goes. Whatever they set up for membership or authorized use will likely only be used to keep the riff raff out (the wankers, the trolls, etc.). Just my guess of course...


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## LillyBBBW

CurvyEm said:


> I understand that people don't want the thread to be used as "wank fodder" but there could be a lot of interesting information for us slightly smaller girls. I do feel slightly miffed that I won't be able to read it anymore.



The thing that bothers me about this is that the guys are not the only ones who behave in an uncouth manner at times. I don't mind smaller girls looking or even participating but every now and then one of them goes, "Gowwy you w'adies scare me I hope I never have to deal with _________," or "Oh, I remember when I had to deal with that before I lost 150 pounds on Nutrisystem - for my health of course. I know exactly what you're going through." Sometimes people don't need to hear stuff like that and people blurt things out without thinking that the time may not be appropriate. I don't like the idea of people being shut out but there should be some kind of law or something.


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## James

LillyBBBW said:


> The thing that bothers me about this is that the guys are not the only ones who behave in an uncouth manner at times. I don't mind smaller girls looking or even participating but every now and then one of them goes, "Gowwy you w'adies scare me I hope I never have to deal with _________," or "Oh, I remember when I had to deal with that before I lost 150 pounds on Nutrisystem - for my health of course. I know exactly what you're going through." Sometimes people don't need to hear stuff like that and people blurt things out without thinking that the time may not be appropriate.



and then presumably thats where Sheriff Ginny comes in to the picture and drops the big ban-hammer on those that try to bring that kind of negative element to the discussion..? 

With clear rules (just as there are for the weight board), taking action like that would be totally reasonable.


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## LillyBBBW

James said:


> and then presumably thats where Sheriff Ginny comes in to the picture and drops the big ban-hammer on those that try to bring that kind of negative element to the discussion..?
> 
> With clear rules (just as there are for the weight board), taking action like that would be totally reasonable.



I try to avoid the label of being a censor and maybe it's just me but I'm just really bitter about stuff like that.


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## James

LillyBBBW said:


> I try to avoid the label of being a censor and maybe it's just me but I'm just really bitter about stuff like that.



I understand. Censorship can suck but, IMO, if the weight board operates to cater for 'fantasists' and to provide a safe haven from 'realists' voicing unwelcome and negative opinions then whats to say that 'realists' can't post on a board that is a safe haven from 'fantasists', in turn voicing their unwelcome and negative opinions. Although, I think most of us have the mental capacity and emotional maturity to seperate reality and fantasy, inevitably I'm sure some wont... hence the sad need for rules here.


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## stan_der_man

I've always found that the best way to get to the bottom of a secretive mystery is to create a well formulated theory, as absurd as it may be, and post it for all to read, consider and discuss.

I've generally found that shush-shush behind the scene activity happens because changes which may be unpopular are about to happen and those who enact said changes would like to have a nice quiet way of adjusting things in as fair and equitable of a way as possible. Very reasonable in principle.

As a good detective would do to solve a mystery, one must attempt to put the pieces together and draw possible conclusions for these pieces…

As we've seen, the thread entitled "The thread for SSBBWs 450+" has been removed (as has been told) to accomplish the task of creating a safe environment for those who would like to have a haven for discussing such issues in a forum (board as it appears) free of trolls, and wanksters who would presumably disrupt such a forum and create a hostile and uncomfortable environment. Perfectly understandable, but the devil is in the details. To create such a forum one must create a set of permissions to allow those included in said forum to freely enter and post in this forum, this permission regimen would presumably keep the "undesirables" out. One would assume that individuals will be chosen for such a group, presumably this group will be comprised of individuals empathizing with the issues super sized people face, theoretically this group will also be comprised of people over 450 lbs.

This in and of itself doesn’t enable us to draw many compelling conclusions so one must attempt to draw from other recent noteworthy events to assemble a possible conspiracy theory.

One such event we have witnessed was the thread, “**WARNING: GRAPHIC**Feeding Fantasies: IMPORTANT Questions to other feeders” in the Erotic Weight Gain board… a noteworthy event to say the least. How can one connect these to create a cohesive and potent theory? Within Dimensions I’ve found that feeders are also a class of individuals, who are a target of ridicule, harassment and harangue, to the point where feeders (especially of the “extreme” variety) are not able to hold a forum for discussion. The feeders, just like the over 450 lb folks, are perfectly entitled to their own safe haven, quite reasonably so. As with the over 450 lb group, the there also needs to be a method for keeping “undesirables” from disrupting discussions on a board that could possibly be created. The thread ““**WARNING: GRAPHIC**Feeding (etc… etc…)” could be used as a method for weeding out such individuals regarded as trolls, and non-supporters from this potential board. Again, a regimen of permissions must be set to allow higher access for selected individuals to view this board.

One would hope that a potential regimen of higher access permissions will keep these two groups separate…



Just a theory…







fa_man_stan


P.S. Often times, formulating such theories results in banishment of some sort… something I've discovered many times in my life.


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## LillyBBBW

I remember waiting around with urgency for the Health board to go up and the same thing when it was announced that changes were being made to the Weight Board. When these boards finally did open, people were free to post but the board was already chock full of posts made previously in random places all over the board that followed the same thought pattern as the intended subject. I was astounded knowing that the Mods had to have scoured the univers looking for these threads, plucked them from their place and arranged them in the new board before the board was opened. My assumption is that something similar is happening here. Any thread that already follows the intent of the new unrevealed board is being zeroed in on and reformulated as we speak. That's my theory.


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## activistfatgirl

Yay! That will be potentially really helpful for a whole lot of people. As for those of us who aren't in the upper categories, I think we should be hella supportive and recognize that not all fat issues are the same. I'm staunch on this. It will be great for SS people to be able to talk about the specific issues that apply to them that vary from those of the general fat population. We all, as a collective group, have lots of resources here in the clothing/fashion, health, main boards. But that special little spot for SS people to be open about specific issues has got to be great. And I don't think for a second I should have any right to be there.

Though, at the rate I'm at, maybe in a few years.  (See, bad joke. You can't trust us under 350 people.)


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## CleverBomb

The simplest explanation that includes all the known facts is likely correct.

The only thing I can't figure out is how we get all the 450# + folks Chia-fied...:doh:

-Rusty


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## ashmamma84

I think it's a good thing -- there are definitely issues that affect SS women that don't necessarily affect their smaller sisters.


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## stan_der_man

CleverBomb said:


> *Let's not get carried away with conspiracy theories.*
> 
> The simplest explanation that includes all the known facts is likely correct.
> 
> The only thing I can't figure out is how we get all the 450# + folks Chia-fied...:doh:
> 
> -Rusty


You are probably right... There is a lot to be considered in making things sucessful and run smoothly with creating new boards etc... I can understand the need to avoid drama, but I just wonder if so much secrecy is always necessary.


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## Tina

Stan, there are some out there who truly get off on reading and hearing about the difficulties SSBBW have, so that if we talk about intimate things, struggles, etc, it just becomes fappage material, and we don't want that.


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## imfree

fa_man_stan said:


> I've always found that the best way to get to the bottom of a secretive mystery is to create a well formulated theory,....... snipped..........
> 
> Just a theory
> 
> fa_man_stan
> 
> 
> P.S. Often times, formulating such theories results in banishment of some sort something I've discovered many times in my life.



Formulating and investigating conspiracy theories has it's risks, then too, "Some things just can't be explained", and there may not even be a conspiracy involved.


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## Observer

Echoing Tina's comment, concern by some over the wank element is unfortunately a real barrier to the success of such a forum (which is very much needed). It would be wonderful if such concerns were all baseless, but unfortunately that's just not the case.

To the conspiracy theorists: sometimes the changes really are actually undecided, not just under wraps becauser they're for some reason onerous. This entire project came up suddenly because of a single thread and our esteemed leader said "I'm jumping on this because its needed." And there really have been discussions on various options since.

As for collecting threads to be included in a new forums from all over the Dimensions forum universe, its not really as daunting a task for mods as one might imagine. I've participated in doing it with the Library, Lounge and Health forums previously and can attest to that. All we need is to determine the criteria. But we're not to that stage yet as far as I know.

Bottom line folks: patience please - most of us also have real life jobs and other responsibilities to attend to. Its been less than a week!


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## imfree

CleverBomb said:


> The simplest explanation that includes all the known facts is likely correct.
> 
> The only thing I can't figure out is how we get all the 450# + folks Chia-fied...:doh:
> 
> -Rusty



There is an underground railroad in the "Chia Confessions Thread"
by which any person can enter the ChiaSanctuary and be
Chia-fied (ChiaTized). I'm not quite 440 and they welcomed me
with open arms.


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## Carol W.

A separate forum for 450+ issues? Oh, what a wonderful idea! Three cheers for Conrad, and everyone else who is working to make this a reality. Sue is absolutely right, Conrad IS the best! (but then I already knew that......)


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## TallFatSue

Observer said:


> To the conspiracy theorists: sometimes the changes really are actually undecided, not just under wraps becauser they're for some reason onerous. This entire project came up suddenly because of a single thread and our esteemed leader said "I'm jumping on this because its needed." And there really have been discussions on various options since.


Exactly. The truth is usually the simplest, least spectacular and sometimes downright boring possibility. I'm always impressed by the high-fallutin' quasi-Rube-Goldberg postulations that the resident liberal and conservative conspiracy theorists cook up in my offices. Yes indeedy, one benefit of being a manager is I get it from all sides. Even my warped logic tells me that at least one of them must be just plain wrong, if not both. If they spent more time fitting their theories to the facts and not vice versa, they would be much more productive. 

If I know anything about Conrad and our dedicated moderators, they simply want do it right the first time, and I recognize quality work when I see it. Ain't no conspiracy about it. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.


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## Shosh

LillyBBBW said:


> The thing that bothers me about this is that the guys are not the only ones who behave in an uncouth manner at times. I don't mind smaller girls looking or even participating but every now and then one of them goes, "Gowwy you w'adies scare me I hope I never have to deal with _________," or "Oh, I remember when I had to deal with that before I lost 150 pounds on Nutrisystem - for my health of course. I know exactly what you're going through." Sometimes people don't need to hear stuff like that and people blurt things out without thinking that the time may not be appropriate. I don't like the idea of people being shut out but there should be some kind of law or something.



Reading this now Lilly I can understand what you are saying here. 

We have a new girl at work. The other girls who are mostly skinny were talking about her and referring to her as " The Big girl". That really annoyed me. I said " Actually her name is D****"  Try using her name ladies. I find that so rude.

Meanwhile I am the only other chubster at my work. Represent!!!!!


----------



## stan_der_man

TallFatSue said:


> Observer said:
> 
> 
> 
> To the conspiracy theorists: sometimes the changes really are actually undecided, not just under wraps becauser they're for some reason onerous. This entire project came up suddenly because of a single thread and our esteemed leader said "I'm jumping on this because its needed." And there really have been discussions on various options since.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly. The truth is usually the simplest, least spectacular and sometimes downright boring possibility. I'm always impressed by the high-fallutin' quasi-Rube-Goldberg postulations that the resident liberal and conservative conspiracy theorists cook up in my offices. Yes indeedy, one benefit of being a manager is I get it from all sides. Even my warped logic tells me that at least one of them must be just plain wrong, if not both. If they spent more time fitting their theories to the facts and not vice versa, they would be much more productive.
> 
> If I know anything about Conrad and our dedicated moderators, they simply want do it right the first time, and I recognize quality work when I see it. Ain't no conspiracy about it. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.
Click to expand...


Pay no mind to me... I just get punchy when I'm not privy to the inside scoop and my wonderful advice goes unappreciated...  I'm probably a bit too cynical for my own good. The powers that be, here at Dimensions, truely do an incredible job to keep things as lively and open as they are without letting things slip into anarchy. It's a lot of work, and an exercise in achieving balance without being heavy handed, I have no doubt about that.



imfree said:


> Formulating and investigating conspiracy theories has it's risks, then too, "Some things just can't be explained", and there may not even be a conspiracy involved.


Don't give up so easily Imfree... have fun sometimes. As for that Chia Conspiracy thing, what's that all about?


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Thanks, Tina and Observer, for posting that. Yes, folks, we're still working on what this forum is going to entail, exactly. I never dreamed I'd start such a ball rolling when I started this thread a few days ago - but I'm glad I did, as I think this forum has the potential to help a lot of people. 

Thanks, again, to Conrad, to being so open to changes and improvements that will help so many people.


----------



## imfree

fa_man_stan said:


> Pay no mind to me... I just get punchy when I'm not privy to the inside scoop and my wonderful advice goes unappreciated...  I'm probably a bit too cynical for my own good. The powers that be, here at Dimensions, truely do an incredible job to keep things as lively and open as they are without letting things slip into anarchy. It's a lot of work, and an exercise in achieving balance without being heavy handed, I have no doubt about that.
> 
> 
> Don't give up so easily Imfree... have fun sometimes. As for that Chia Conspiracy thing, what's that all about?



The Chia Conspiracy is simple, my last name has "green" in it. Then, too, it's delightfully silly fun to work ChiaFuzz into pictures! No conspiracy here, just
a disabled guy with FAR too much time on his hands and a mind that won't
quit.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Susannah said:


> Reading this now Lilly I can understand what you are saying here.
> 
> We have a new girl at work. The other girls who are mostly skinny were talking about her and referring to her as " The Big girl". That really annoyed me. I said " Actually her name is D****"  Try using her name ladies. I find that so rude.
> 
> Meanwhile I am the only other chubster at my work. Represent!!!!!



Today was our departmental Holiday luncheon. We went to this chi chi restuarant, the same one we went to last year which everyone liked. There are these ladies who do nothing but talk about dieting and food. It drives me insane to hear them clucking over trans fats and unwashed vegetables. I made sure to sit way down at the opposite end of the table. At one point one of the ladies aked me what I ordered. I told her I ordered the mussels fra diavolo and she said, "Oh you ordered that last time too." That was a year ago. I couldn't remember what I ordered a year ago or what any of them ordered last year. I hate eating with calorie counters.

You know, I get bugged by the silliest things. I'm like a cat in a room full of rocking chairs when it comes to commentaries about food and diet. Another co worker started talking to me about things to order at the restaurant before I left for the luncheon and she started saying things about how I could have soup, I could have salad and I could have apple pie because that counts as a fruit. *wink*wink* I was confused at first till I realized she was coaching me through the Weight Watchers point system, as if I actually attend the program with her and she knew me from there. Like I said, the whole office is obsessed with diet so she could have just been saying it the same as she would with anyone else who was sitting there. It is such a natural part of life now for many people that I believe the chatter about it has just become a regular form of jargon and no one really means anything by it but as a fat person I am so sensitive about that stuff. I try not to get angry but I can't help it sometimes.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Lilly, 

I have been there SO many times. I'm finally in an office where folks are pretty quiet about things like that (thank GAWD), but I just walk away when they start in on it. I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't walk away though.  I'd probably lose it.


----------



## CleverBomb

imfree said:


> The Chia Conspiracy is simple, my last name has "green" in it. Then, too, it's delightfully silly fun to work ChiaFuzz into pictures! No conspiracy here, just
> a disabled guy with FAR too much time on his hands and a mind that won't
> quit.


Ah, that explains it.
Thanks!
-Rusty


----------



## Flyin Lilac

LillyBBBW said:


> I'm like a cat in a room full of rocking chairs when it comes to commentaries about food and diet.



Sorry, I know this is off-topic for this thread, but I _had _to jump on this one because it happened to me just today, for like the billionth time, and I know just what you mean, Lilly.

I was having lunch at a restaurant I visit frequently, because I live alone and don't have or make time most of the time to cook 85 things to keep on hand in the house. And once again at the table ahead of mine were these two women yammering on incessantly about their diets and blah diddy blah blah friggin BLAH.

I suspect they were absolutely mortified to see me put away a crock of French onion soup for an appetizer and then follow it with a turkey club and fries (but maybe I scored points for nixing the Swiss cheese and requesting light mayo on the sandwich, and drinking only ice water  ) 

As much as I'd love to just tune it out, I admit it irritates the _fuck _outta me. And Lilly's right --- it seems as if that's all anyone talks about anymore when they're out to lunch or dinner, whether a large person is sitting near them or not. I just have this sense that we big'ns trigger some sort of Pavlovian response whenever they spot us ... some part of their brains says, _"Red alert! Red alert! Fat person 11 o'clock! Quick, talk about your diet so you can remind yourself how saintly you are!"_

Maybe I, too, am hypersensitive to this, but it really _is _amusing to a degree.

At any rate, I _really _enjoyed my soup and sammich (the fries were good too). On the down side, due to time constraints and a full stomach, I skipped dessert. *GASP*


----------



## mossystate

I passed Thanksgiving at my youngest sisters place. She invited the people across the street. They are a nice couple, and I have been around them a number of times. They even came to my moms funeral, back in April. BUT..BUT...the woman of the couple had to be shut DOWN on Thanksgiving. She started in on the ' points ' talk..yeah THOSE points. My sister, who is slender, said the exact thing I did when we heard June start in with what she could eat that day, because she had worked out so much..etc..etc. We both said, " June, shut up with the points talk..eat..enjoy..don't eat..fine..just..shhhhhhhhh ". She was not shocked so much, because we said it in an exagerated manner that was jovial enough..but very serious. She has a 13 year old girl who is gonna be messed up because of her incessant diet talk. I noticed her looking at my stomach a few times. It was so obvious and I was a little self conscience about it, but then I made it a point to make sure I enjoyed all I would have enjoyed, had she not been there. 

anyway....ack


----------



## Tina

I vowed a long time ago that the next time some skinny woman says within earshot that she looks fat I will agree with her and walk away. Hasn't happened yet, but it's happened in the past. Back then I said nothing. Now, I have it filed away for future use...


----------



## Suze

Tina said:


> I vowed a long time ago that the next time some skinny woman says within earshot that she looks fat I will agree with her and walk away. Hasn't happened yet, but it's happened in the past. Back then I said nothing. Now, I have it filed away for future use...



I actually say that a lot, because some of my friends says that a lot. Really effective, it shuts them up 

Saying things like this in the presence of fat folks are incredibly rude imo. I never get any hateful comments (I'm lucky i guess) from strangers. But from a few of my friends I get hints like that all the time.


----------



## xoxoshelby

LillyBBBW said:


> Today was our departmental Holiday luncheon. We went to this chi chi restuarant, the same one we went to last year which everyone liked. There are these ladies who do nothing but talk about dieting and food. It drives me insane to hear them clucking over trans fats and unwashed vegetables. I made sure to sit way down at the opposite end of the table. At one point one of the ladies aked me what I ordered. I told her I ordered the mussels fra diavolo and she said, "Oh you ordered that last time too." That was a year ago. I couldn't remember what I ordered a year ago or what any of them ordered last year. I hate eating with calorie counters.
> 
> You know, I get bugged by the silliest things. I'm like a cat in a room full of rocking chairs when it comes to commentaries about food and diet. Another co worker started talking to me about things to order at the restaurant before I left for the luncheon and she started saying things about how I could have soup, I could have salad and I could have apple pie because that counts as a fruit. *wink*wink* I was confused at first till I realized she was coaching me through the Weight Watchers point system, as if I actually attend the program with her and she knew me from there. Like I said, the whole office is obsessed with diet so she could have just been saying it the same as she would with anyone else who was sitting there. It is such a natural part of life now for many people that I believe the chatter about it has just become a regular form of jargon and no one really means anything by it but as a fat person I am so sensitive about that stuff. I try not to get angry but I can't help it sometimes.



I know how it is! My workplace is in the middle of a 3 month "biggest loser" contest. Almost all of the women are involved, even the tiny ones. This is all I hear about all day long. I could have participated, the biggest loser each week wins money, but the nurse weighs in everyone every monday. Do you think that scale is going to weigh me? I doubt it. So it makes me uncomfortable when they are all having their salads for lunch and I'm having my normal lunch. I can't wait until this contest ends!


----------



## LillyBBBW

xoxoshelby said:


> I know how it is! My workplace is in the middle of a 3 month "biggest loser" contest. Almost all of the women are involved, even the tiny ones. This is all I hear about all day long. I could have participated, the biggest loser each week wins money, but the nurse weighs in everyone every monday. Do you think that scale is going to weigh me? I doubt it. So it makes me uncomfortable when they are all having their salads for lunch and I'm having my normal lunch. I can't wait until this contest ends!



My goal in life right now is to teach my 5 month old nephew to count to 5 and show him around to things so he can comprehend the English language. The last time I held him he looked at me in earnest and started jibbering and moving his mouth. I sat and listened for a bit, then his face changed to one of frustration and he began to cry. To me that is the most exciting thing I've ever seen in my whole life. :wubu: It's a small thing really but IMO there are better things to achieve and be rewarded for in this life than to be slim and trim.


----------



## butch

I'm curious, is the new forum for the SSBBWs also going to be for the SSBHMs?


----------



## Emma

susieQ said:


> I actually say that a lot, because some of my friends says that a lot. Really effective, it shuts them up



I normally say something along the lines of "I'll call up jerry springer and get him to get the crane on standby for you" and laugh.


----------



## BeautifulPoeticDisaster

CurvyEm said:


> I normally say something along the lines of "I'll call up jerry springer and get him to get the crane on standby for you" and laugh.



lol, what a nice friend you are, lol.

I'm not nearly as creative, I just give them the eye and tell them to shut up.


----------



## Emma

BigBellySSBBW said:


> lol, what a nice friend you are, lol.
> 
> I'm not nearly as creative, I just give them the eye and tell them to shut up.



lol I mean friends who are like a size 10 or something, I'd never say it to a fat person.


----------



## LillyBBBW

BigBellySSBBW said:


> lol, what a nice friend you are, lol.
> 
> I'm not nearly as creative, I just give them the eye and tell them to shut up.



Me too in so many words. I tell her on the worst day she lived she hadn't seen fat up close.


----------



## Jes

yes, i recall that mention of 'ecstatic' full body massages given by an engineer. how well i recall it.


----------



## James

aghhhh... Right at this moment, there are a gaggle of women (plus one metrosexual) hovering within earshot involved in some serious hardcore diet babble nonsense (on work time I might add).

I'm off to the coffee and snack machine to go get a candy bar to eat in front of those losers...


----------



## imfree

butch said:


> I'm curious, is the new forum for the SSBBWs also going to be for the SSBHMs?



I'm with you in that question. I'm a SSBHM who wants to know.


----------



## Shosh

LillyBBBW said:


> My goal in life right now is to teach my 5 month old nephew to count to 5 and show him around to things so he can comprehend the English language. The last time I held him he looked at me in earnest and started jibbering and moving his mouth. I sat and listened for a bit, then his face changed to one of frustration and he began to cry. To me that is the most exciting thing I've ever seen in my whole life. :wubu: It's a small thing really but IMO there are better things to achieve and be rewarded for in this life than to be slim and trim.



Lilly, 
My third nephew was due on Wednesday, but he has not yet made his grand entrance into the world yet. Hurry up already so that I can love on you big time my cookie! I know he is gonna be all that and a bag of chips.
Babies are so wonderful, I cant tell you. Better than bloody diets for sure.


----------



## Jes

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Don't worry, the SSBBWs 450+ thread isn't gone for good. Our wonderful Webmaster, Conrad, decided this thread addressed an important need in our community, and has decided to do it justice by creating an entire forum specifically for this group of people. I am honored to have been asked to be moderator of this new forum, and the rest of the moderators and I are currently discussing what membership requirements would be. Basically, we're working on keeping membership open to as many people as possible, while still making it a safe place for supersize people to discuss sensitive issues. Please stay tuned to this thread for updates, and be patient with us - we're trying to make sure we do the best we can for this community.  Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.


All right. 

Just so long as I don't have to gain 200 lbs. over night to be able to read.


----------



## Russell Williams

If someone starts on getting you to diet ask why they think you should be fatter. IF the conversation contunues just keep working from the premisse that dieting usually makes a person fatter so why do they want you to be fatter.

If they are talking about their diet tell them that they will look better after they regain the weight and a bit more. tell them to be sure not to throw out their larger clothing because they will need to have something nice to wear when they regain the weight.

When they talk of how they will succeed tell them that only one out of 20 keeps the weight off. If it is a group of them ask one, " Will you be the one out of twenty?" If the person says yes then tell the others that they must be in the group of 19 that will regain weight and so might as well give up their diets now before they wind up making themselves even fatter then they will be if they stop dieting now.

I have found that people who know me seldom disucss dieting in front of me.

Russell


----------



## SuperMishe

Everyone at work knows how I feel about dieting but I don't necessarily "shut them down" for talking about thier diets. Sometimes I like to listen because they talk about healthy alternatives too, which I think is a good thing. If they start in with "I was so bad 'cuz I had a brownie this weekend" I give them the eye roll and tell them yes, indeed, they're on their way to hell.

My facility has a staff of about 200 but we're owned by a corporation. Corporate sponsors all kinds of programs for the staff throughout the year and one of the things they wanted each facility to do was come up with ideas to promote fitness/weight loss/health. (Of course, they assume that all 3 must go together). The committee in our facility wanted to do some type of "Biggest Loser" contest or Weight Watchers club. I spoke right up and told them I had a problem with that. I told the powers that be that if they were looking to promote healthier lifestyles for the staff, then they should start a walking club or some type of alternate fitness class like yoga or tai chi. They acknowledged my feelings and switched to planning a walking club called "Happy Feet" - which in the end, fizzled out due to lack or participation, just like every other program that gets started! LOL! But the point is, I spoke up and they listened. A banner day for a fattie! LOL!


----------



## TallFatSue

Whenever someone asks me why I've never tried to lose weight, my standard reply is:

I can starve myself and be miserable for the rest of my days, or I can lead a rich, happy, fulfilling life. I cannot possibly do both.


----------



## Flyin Lilac

SuperMishe said:


> If they start in with "I was so bad 'cuz I had a brownie this weekend" I give them the eye roll and tell them yes, indeed, they're on their way to hell.



Just last night I was at a holiday party (standing right next to the food table, OF COURSE, cause isn't that where fat people _always_ hold court? LMAO. Sarcasm, people!) Anyway, right near me my best friend and another mutual friend were talking about a party they'd been to the night before and their heroic achievement of not enjoying much of the munchies offered. And my best friend said: "I was good, I had only 2 cheese sticks."

It took everything I had in me not to shove her head into the Greek cucumber dip and tell her to shut the fuck up with the "I've been so good" or "Oh god I was so bad" crap. 

I dunno, maybe I'm just jealous of her self-control. Heh. And in her defense, she has never, _ever _treated me as a "lesser" or given me any negative attitude about my weight or what I eat. She was a fattie like me once and did the very hard work of losing over half of it. And a sincere bravo to her for that. I guess the point of my rant is: I don't give a rat's ass if you diet, if you don't diet, whatever. That's _your _concern, just as my dieting or not dieting is _my _concern. But with this "good/bad" link people tend to forge (purposely or unwittingly) between food and their value as a human being, is it any wonder there's so much psychological garbage surrounding body image? 

By the way, I was _really _good: I had a shitload of those mini-weiners in sweet & sour sauce, and luscious crackers & dip. AND a WHOLE brownie!


----------



## LillyBBBW

*bump*

Not that I'm counting the seconds or anything but just wondering if any progress is being made for the SS forum? I'm feeling a little nostalgic and wanted to look at G's thread but it's still hidden.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Progress is being made. Fear not! 

Pretty soon, you'll be able to be nostalgic ALL THE TIME!


----------



## TallFatSue

Pretty soon? But I'm fat NOW!


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Yeah, me too. We're trendsetters, you and I!


----------



## Size2B

I completely support such an idea of a forum. I will knock on many other males out there. I found that descprtions and situations presented were interesting and more enlightening to everyday life of large size. Women tend to be more descriptive without being disturbing, if you know what I mean. They tend to talk more openly with living comfort and other settings. Which makes for more useful and informative conversation.

Please continue the pleasent posts that make sense of what the world is and would be like at a super size/weight. As a not-so-heavy male, it would be nice to join in the conversation, instead of outside, if I ever get there [to my idea of enjoyable size/weight.]

:bow:


----------



## JerseyGirl07093

Is the new forum for this up yet? I've seen it mentioned twice so far in other threads but I cannot find it. Is it just me? Or is it just not 'ready' yet? 
Thanks in advance for pointing me in the right direction!


----------



## Emma

JerseyGirl07093 said:


> Is the new forum for this up yet? I've seen it mentioned twice so far in other threads but I cannot find it. Is it just me? Or is it just not 'ready' yet?
> Thanks in advance for pointing me in the right direction!



It's up, but I'm not sure how you go about getting an invite. Maybe PM the starter of this thread?


----------



## ValentineBBW

JerseyGirl07093 said:


> Is the new forum for this up yet? I've seen it mentioned twice so far in other threads but I cannot find it. Is it just me? Or is it just not 'ready' yet?
> Thanks in advance for pointing me in the right direction!



I've seen it mentioned too and have been looking for the forum or an official post about the new forum so we could sign up.



CurvyEm said:


> It's up, but I'm not sure how you go about getting an invite. Maybe PM the starter of this thread?



If it's by invite, who decides who gets invited or not? (not directing this at you Em, just putting the question out there).


----------



## Suze

I had access but I've been thrown out I guess


----------



## LoveBHMS

susieQ said:


> I had access but I've been thrown out I guess



You can get thrown out of a thread?

Wow.


----------



## Suze

LoveBHMS said:


> You can get thrown out of a thread?
> 
> Wow.



Heh. 

I was talking about the board.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

If you're interested in joining the forum, just PM me. Thanks.


----------



## Suze

BigBeautifulMe said:


> If you're interested in joining the forum, just PM me. Thanks.



Nah. I's fine. I take the hint


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

BigBeautifulMe said:


> If you're interested in joining the forum, just PM me. Thanks.


That was more addressed to Valentine, Em, and JerseyGirl. My apologies.


----------



## Dravenhawk

I understand the need for privacy when it comes to discussion of personal topics that affect supersized women. My biggest concern is that this private forum has a huge potential for abuse. I recently broke up with a girl I was dating through Dimensions public venues and she vowed to "distroy me" saying "you are so f--ked". From the feedback I have been getting I can only guess what has been said. The plain and simple fact is we were not properly suited for one another. I can see such a forum as an avenue for cliqueish gossip where the target has no means to know what smack is being said nor have an opprotunity to defend themselves. As the wise man once said the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Dravenhawk


----------



## sweet&fat

That seems like such a tiny (and personal) consideration given the solid reasons that have been given for the forum's existence.



Dravenhawk said:


> I understand the need for privacy when it comes to discussion of personal topics that affect supersized women. My biggest concern is that this private forum has a huge potential for abuse. I recently broke up with a girl I was dating through Dimensions public venues and she vowed to "distroy me" saying "you are so f--ked". From the feedback I have been getting I can only guess what has been said. The plain and simple fact is we were not properly suited for one another. I can see such a forum as an avenue for cliqueish gossip where the target has no means to know what smack is being said nor have an opprotunity to defend themselves. As the wise man once said the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
> 
> Dravenhawk


----------



## goofy girl

Dravenhawk said:


> I understand the need for privacy when it comes to discussion of personal topics that affect supersized women. My biggest concern is that this private forum has a huge potential for abuse. I recently broke up with a girl I was dating through Dimensions public venues and she vowed to "distroy me" saying "you are so f--ked". From the feedback I have been getting I can only guess what has been said. The plain and simple fact is we were not properly suited for one another. I can see such a forum as an avenue for cliqueish gossip where the target has no means to know what smack is being said nor have an opprotunity to defend themselves. As the wise man once said the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
> 
> Dravenhawk



I don't see the connection? And as you are not a 450+ SSBBW, I can't see why it would affect you.


----------



## Ash

I think he's saying that he's afraid we'll use the private board to talk (negatively or otherwise) about other members who don't have access.

And I can honestly say that I'm absolutely sure that this won't be the case. Conrad takes the need for this particular board very seriously, and he would never let it become a place for fat women to air grievances about other posters, etc. You have nothing to worry about.


----------



## AnnMarie

Ashley said:


> I think he's saying that he's afraid we'll use the private board to talk (negatively or otherwise) about other members who don't have access.
> 
> And I can honestly say that I'm absolutely sure that this won't be the case. Conrad takes the need for this particular board very seriously, and he would never let it become a place for fat women to air grievances about other posters, etc. You have nothing to worry about.



Seconded, and mod reinforced. This forum is for discussion of supersized issues that relate to size, fitting, hygiene, etc. 

This is NOT a social gossip forum, complaining, member dissection, etc. Absolutely not allowed, permitted, or entertained. I am not the assinged mod of that particular area, but I assure you that is not even a possibility of content - wouldn't be allowed by mods or by Conrad, even if it was attempted by a member.


----------



## goofy girl

ahhh I gotcha. Sometimes I can't see the forest for the trees :doh:


----------



## LillyBBBW

AnnMarie said:


> Seconded, and mod reinforced. This forum is for discussion of supersized issues that relate to size, fitting, hygiene, etc.
> 
> This is NOT a social gossip forum, complaining, member dissection, etc. Absolutely not allowed, permitted, or entertained. I am not the assinged mod of that particular area, but I assure you that is not even a possibility of content - wouldn't be allowed by mods or by Conrad, even if it was attempted by a member.



Thirded! So far there isn't much prattling going on in there. It's all topic specific. Nobody is saying anything bad about anybody else and the moderator was very clear that certain behaviors would not be tolerated.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Dravenhawk,

As the assigned moderator of that forum, I can tell you right now (as everyone else has said), nothing like that will be permitted. It is a resource for supersized women and their female allies that contribute helpful information and support one another. Nothing more, nothing less. Any abuse of that purpose would result in prompt expulsion from the group. If you have any further concerns, please feel free to PM me. Thanks.


----------



## Wagimawr

I would think such discussion would be expected from the Clubhouse, a general "members only" section, not a specifically-designed forum for a particularly sensitive issue.


----------



## out.of.habit

Wagimawr said:


> I would think such discussion would be expected from the Clubhouse, a general "members only" section, not a specifically-designed forum for a particularly sensitive issue.



Can't agree with that, Wag. Those types of conversations are discouraged in the Clubhouse as well. Let's not start that nasty rumor, okay?

No offense meant to you, but that assumption is faulty and will spread like wildfire in a matter of moments.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Okay, at this point, those who have asked for access (and who haven't been told "no" for some reason) should have it - check the forum list here. If you don't have it and I told you you would, please PM me.


----------



## Wagimawr

out.of.habit said:


> Can't agree with that, Wag. Those types of conversations are discouraged in the Clubhouse as well. Let's not start that nasty rumor, okay?
> 
> No offense meant to you, but that assumption is faulty and will spread like wildfire in a matter of moments.


I suspected as much, but was understandably a bit baffled as to why a specifically-designated forum would raise such suspicions and the clubhouse doesn't when the management's the same - I suppose I missed the arguing back then.


----------



## collared Princess

well Im over 450 and I have a ssbbw question for all the men out there...does anyone know of any porno mags with 450+ pound women or any vidio's for sale??...


----------



## stan_der_man

fa_man_stan said:


> ... on the shores of Bermuda!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I hope BigBeautifulMe gets that autograph from Elvis she promised me.





BigBeautifulMe said:


> Okay, at this point, those who have asked for access (and who haven't been told "no" for some reason) should have it - check the forum list here. If you don't have it and I told you you would, please PM me.



So ummm... I'm taking that as a "no" on the autograph from Elvis then?


----------



## LillyBBBW

fa_man_stan said:


> So ummm... I'm taking that as a "no" on the autograph from Elvis then?



Elvis uses a scooter now and has terrible arthritis in his hands. His autograph signing days are long behind him but he sends his regards Stan.


----------



## exile in thighville

Tina said:


> Stan, there are some out there who truly get off on reading and hearing about the difficulties SSBBW have, so that if we talk about intimate things, struggles, etc, it just becomes fappage material, and we don't want that.



This is in no way a defense or that sort of thing, but is this controllable? I think everything on the internet is fair game. I mean, it's sad that people posting pics of their children on MySpace should have to worry, is a pedophile going to "use" this? But it breaks my heart to admit I don't really know what they could do about it other than not post.

I think the real issue here is if a wanker decides to post on the board himself.

But I'm very against the idea of protecting a new post canon with a password or weight requirement or anything. The information should be available to anyone, and that's how life goes. Libraries don't fret at the idea of people taking home their books to jerk off to.

I motion the old cliche should be updated for contemporary tropes: "The only things certain in life are death, taxes, and the wankability quotient of _anything_ on the internet"

I also as always enjoy Lilly stepping outside the darn-these-MEN box, even though I full well understand why the box is there.


----------



## Tooz

exile in thighville said:


> But I'm very against the idea of protecting a new post canon with a password or weight requirement or anything. The information should be available to anyone, and that's how life goes. Libraries don't fret at the idea of people taking home their books to jerk off to.



No offense to you, Dan, but this is coming from a skinny dude. These women had their reasons to do what was done, and I don't think it's changing any time soon.


----------



## LillyBBBW

exile in thighville said:


> This is in no way a defense or that sort of thing, but is this controllable? I think everything on the internet is fair game. I mean, it's sad that people posting pics of their children on MySpace should have to worry, is a pedophile going to "use" this? But it breaks my heart to admit I don't really know what they could do about it other than not post.
> 
> I think the real issue here is if a wanker decides to post on the board himself.
> 
> But I'm very against the idea of protecting a new post canon with a password or weight requirement or anything. The information should be available to anyone, and that's how life goes.* Libraries don't fret at the idea of people taking home their books to jerk off to.*
> 
> I motion the old cliche should be updated for contemporary tropes: "The only things certain in life are death, taxes, and the wankability quotient of _anything_ on the internet"
> 
> I also as always enjoy Lilly stepping outside the darn-these-MEN box, even though I full well understand why the box is there.



I think it's one thing if you're saying "insert sprocket A into joint B" and then saying "I have to bathe with a garden hose." These are personal embarassing things. The folks who run the Library have no issue with someone wanking to general information but you can't go to their house to smell their underwear and listen in on the phone.


----------



## furious styles

I certainly fail to see the issue. It seems to be a case of "but-but no secrets! what about the micron of a chance that they're saying something that concerns me in some way?! i'm special, i want in!"

Private areas on public forums are old news. There's a mod lounge on many forums. There's a paid members only section here. It's a specific issue forum made only for those with said specific issue. Not a social clique.


----------



## LoveBHMS

Six.

I can fully understand being curious. It's human nature plain and simple when you're told "there is some OTHER STUFF going on but it's PRIVATE." OTOH, as Too said it's there for a reason and at the discretion of a moderator.



Tooz said:


> No offense to you, Dan, but this is coming from a skinny dude. These women had their reasons to do what was done, and I don't think it's changing any time soon.


----------



## stan_der_man

LillyBBBW said:


> Elvis uses a scooter now and has terrible arthritis in his hands. His autograph signing days are long behind him but he sends his regards Stan.



At least 'ol Elvis is still kickin' it. Thanks for the update Lilly!


----------



## Tina

exile in thighville said:


> But I'm very against the idea of protecting a new post canon with a password or weight requirement or anything.


It's fine that you're against it. We're all allowed our opinion.


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

mfdoom said:


> I certainly fail to see the issue. It seems to be a case of "but-but no secrets! what about the micron of a chance that they're saying something that concerns me in some way?! i'm special, i want in!"
> 
> Private areas on public forums are old news. There's a mod lounge on many forums. There's a paid members only section here. It's a specific issue forum made only for those with said specific issue. Not a social clique.



Agreed. 100%

tis what we need


----------



## furious styles

BothGunsBlazing said:


> Agreed. 100%
> 
> tis what we need



i'll bring the cootie repellant, you grab some couch cushions.


----------



## stan_der_man

mfdoom said:


> I certainly fail to see the issue. It seems to be a case of "but-but no secrets! what about the micron of a chance that they're saying something that concerns me in some way?! i'm special, i want in!"
> 
> Private areas on public forums are old news. There's a mod lounge on many forums. There's a paid members only section here. It's a specific issue forum made only for those with said specific issue. Not a social clique.





BothGunsBlazing said:


> Agreed. 100%
> 
> tis what we need





mfdoom said:


> i'll bring the cootie repellant, you grab some couch cushions.



Agreed! I'll bring the beer.


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

right on ! I'll bring the ladie ... ! oh wait .. .. er .. dungeons and dragons!


----------



## stan_der_man

In all honesty, the only thing I find to be wierd about this 450 Club thing is all the secrecy in how it was gone about.

How about a "Secret Society of FAs"... kinda like the Free Masons? We'll take the good FAs and make them better.




...or just kick back and toss down some brewskies.


----------



## furious styles

fa_man_stan said:


> How about a "Secret Society of FAs"... kinda like the Free Masons? We'll take the good FAs and make them better.



do we get totally sweet secret club rings?


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

What would you like to know, Stan? There really was no secrecy.  I started this thread, Conrad saw a need for a forum and asked me to moderate it, I agreed, and started things by inviting everyone on this thread that was female and showed interest.  That's how it started. Now, as the members have made their needs clear, the forum has evolved to have slightly more stringent membership requirements (for the most part, members have to be SSBBWs, and have an adequate number of posts) and to include multiple moderators, but it was never intended to be "secret." 

PS - Elvis says he already autographed your tush, but you must have blacked out from all the tequila and forgotten it.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Yeah but will yours have pretty curtains, heated toilet seats and armless chairs? I think not. I hear next we're getting lavender hand lotion by the sink.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

"You must spread some rep...before giving it to Lilly again." Darn it.


----------



## phatfatgirl

BBme..I'll give her some for ya and me too! That was awesome Lilly! lol


----------



## phatfatgirl

damn...said the same to me too! drats! Sorry Lilly!


----------



## Chimpi

Man Haters!! 



















.... Said with 100% pure sarcastic intonation.


----------



## Webmaster

BigBeautifulMe said:


> "You must spread some rep...before giving it to Lilly again." Darn it.



Sorry about that. The rep system is probably geared towards discouraging mutual admiration societies that drive up rep.


----------



## clubgossip

wishing I had some...lol
:eat2:


----------



## LillyBBBW

Webmaster said:


> Sorry about that. The rep system is probably geared towards discouraging mutual admiration societies that drive up rep.



meaning....?


----------



## AnnMarie

LillyBBBW said:


> meaning....?



I think he was just commenting on why you have to spread it around before you hand it out another person again... at least that's how I read it.


----------



## The Orange Mage

Basically to prevent e-penis circle-jerks.

Yeah, I said it.


----------



## LillyBBBW

The Orange Mage said:


> Basically to prevent e-penis circle-jerks.
> 
> Yeah, I said it.



People Rep the posts they like. There is no way to prevent an e-penis circle jerk. One will always seemingly form.


----------



## ripley

Webmaster said:


> Sorry about that. The rep system is probably geared towards discouraging mutual admiration societies that drive up rep.



You're kidding, right? This actually happens? 


I have a lot of rep, but have never been part of a "mutual admiration society." I thought this debate was finished after Boteroesque Babe left over it....

If it's that much of an issue I say let's scrap the rep system entirely, though I do dearly love my notes and sending comments to others.


----------



## Sandie S-R

ripley said:


> You're kidding, right? This actually happens?
> 
> 
> I have a lot of rep, but have never been part of a "mutual admiration society." I thought this debate was finished after Boteroesque Babe left over it....
> 
> If it's that much of an issue I say let's scrap the rep system entirely, though I do dearly love my notes and sending comments to others.



Hey Rip...

I don't think it is an issue. I think Conrad was just explaining incase someone didn't understand how it worked.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Sandie S-R said:


> Hey Rip...
> 
> I don't think it is an issue. I think Conrad was just explaining incase someone didn't understand how it worked.



I've had a nap so I'm no longer as high strung over the comment as I was. I get what he's saying however what really irks me about this is that the whole concept of Rep *is* a mutual admiration society. What else would it be? The comment was too ambiguous and people who don't have the specifics of exactly what kind of conduct he's talking about will surely take offense. There are people who Rep me and in the same day I see something of theirs I would like to Rep but wind up not doing so because I fear the invisible finger. A bias to prevent bias that somehow creates other biases. Any grazing of the subject of Rep is like feather dusting a popsicle stick display.


----------



## fatchicksrockuk

LillyBBBW said:


> I've had a nap so I'm no longer as high strung over the comment as I was. I get what he's saying however what really irks me about this is that the whole concept of Rep *is* a mutual admiration society. What else would it be? The comment was too ambiguous and people who don't have the specifics of exactly what kind of conduct he's talking about will surely take offense. There are people who Rep me and in the same day I see something of theirs I would like to Rep but wind up not doing so because I fear the invisible finger. A bias to prevent bias that somehow creates other biases. Any grazing of the subject of Rep is like feather dusting a popsicle stick display.



I think Conrad was referring to people repping other people based purely on who they are, not what they've said. Without any checks or measures, two people could rep each other all day and reach huge rep levels.


----------



## stan_der_man

BigBeautifulMe said:


> PS - Elvis says he already autographed your tush, but you must have blacked out from all the tequila and forgotten it.



Whoa! Just took a look at my heiny... whatduya know... Wow! Thanks for telling me BBMe! Me and that cheap tequila... oops...:blink: The autograph is still in great shape, not even smeared (looks like Elvis used a Sharpie fine point marker...) I oughta get that sucker grafted and framed... Betcha that little piece of my ass is worth some bucks! *Doin' a little happy dance... shakin' my "money maker* 


Anyhoo...





BigBeautifulMe said:


> What would you like to know, Stan? There really was no secrecy.


 This isn't a rant directed at you BBMe by any means, and no one in particular, just at the situation here in general. You know that I have respect for you, your opinions, and I believe your sincerity BBMe. I have no illusion that Dimensions has any obligation to cater to my, or any of the other FAs sensibilities... It's Conrad's server, he can do whatever he wants. Now knowing how this 450 Club (or whatever it is called) was created I personally have no problem with that, or even it's concealed existence. I am a member of the Clubhouse, I have an "elitist" streak myself, I'd be a hypocrite to say otherwise.

What I find noteworthy about this situation (and some others in the past...) is not the thread itself nor the circumstances surrounding it, but the amount of anger shown by the male FAs and how across the board it seems to be. Think about it... the premise of concealing a thread like yours BBMe is to keep it from being wank fodder. It's perfectly understandable for the super-sized ladies discussing potentially personal matters to have an expectation (or desire) that these sort of conversations will be respected, and to have a forum free from interruptions, and reasonably free from the thought that certain discussions are being viewed by some for personal (and conceivably disgusting) sexual arousal. My question is this... Who determined (and how) that there are FAs here in Dims (enough to warrant the concealment...) who would would be sexually aroused by these sorts of conversations? That's a pretty big assumption... And, it's a very demeaning assumption towards us male FAs. It seems like the male FAs are all being painted with the same filthy brush here in Dimensions that colors the perception of us in society as a whole. I suspect the individuals who would abuse the trust of viewing such a topic of discussion are a small minority of the male FA population here, the extreme fringe. Maybe I'm completely naive...? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Male FAs have to deal with plenty of suspicion from fat women (and others) in the outside world, it really is a kick in the groin getting the same treatment here within Dims. I very much enjoy and appreciate Dimensions, don't get me wrong... But this is one of the reasons I will never fully embrace what I perceive Dimensions stands for or at least how I as a FA am being viewed here within Dimensions. Either Dimensions is full of disgusting wankers with whom I would be embarrassed to be associated with, or I, even as a "typical" FA will always be viewed under a cloud of suspicion. (I'm exaggerating to make a point... I don't necessarily believe that...) My daily life is like that, I can get that shit anywhere. As a male FA, I feel that I'm not trusted (even respected at times) within a place that is supposed to be a haven for me. It seems many times that the male FAs are put in a position where they have to walk on eggshells not to upset the women, or constantly prove their trustworthiness. I'm fairly successful at avoiding conflict, but many of the other males here aren't. (I will acknowledge there are often times that the males have rightfully incurred the wrath of the women here... unfortunate but true...) The fact that Dimensions has (I think I can safely say...) a majority of women often makes it an awkward place for the males. I also think some of the resentment and anger by the (thin / average sized) FA males is because most of the new subcategories that have been recently created are geared towards non- (thin / average sized) male FAs... Supposedly Dimensions was created for all FAs. Your discussion group BBMe (for super-sized women), the BHM / FFA Board (for female FAs, and fat males), and the changes made in the Weight Board that were presumably geared towards protecting "feeder" type of discussions... are all examples of this.

In summery, I think the focus of the thin / average male FA frustration is this... It seems like there are all of these "protected classes" of people here in Dimensions, the super-sized females, the female FAs, the fat males, and the feeders. The "average" male FA just gets drowned out in this sea of digital commotion, there isn't a place we can "gather" and discuss things uniquely "average" male FA. I would even go so far as to say this is one of the reasons there isn't an identifiable group of FAs promoting fat preferences, and fat acceptance here in Dims or anywhere else for that matter.

One thing I'd like to go on the record as saying. As much as I rant about the "feeders", I don't identify myself as a "feeder" per se, but I'm not anti-feeder by virtue of "to each his own"... I don't believe in passing judgement on people engaging in mutually consented activities. I don't like other's passing judgement on me either.






BigBeautifulMe said:


> "You must spread some rep...before giving it to Lilly again." Darn it.





Webmaster said:


> Sorry about that. The rep system is probably geared towards discouraging mutual admiration societies that drive up rep.





LillyBBBW said:


> meaning....?



BBMe, it appears that you, I and others are members of the "Keeps pushing the rep limit!" Club... From what I can surmise, we are the riffraff of the rep castes (i.e. it takes pages of rep for us to receive cans, I'm assuming that we have been deemed "cliquish"...) I believe other rep castes receive cans more quickly than we do. Just hold your mouse over your reputation cans and see what it says. Lilly, you seem to have been pleasing the powers that be...  


The Chief apparently is also a humble member of our little "pushing the rep limit!" club...


----------



## wistful

fatchicksrockuk said:


> Without any checks or measures, two people could rep each other all day and reach huge rep levels.



I really don't know how that's possible though.It seems whenver I rep any given individual, it's always a while until I can rep them once again.



LillyBBBW said:


> I get what he's saying however what really irks me about this is that the whole concept of Rep *is* a mutual admiration society. What else would it be? The comment was too ambiguous and people who don't have the specifics of exactly what kind of conduct he's talking about will surely take offense. There are people who Rep me and in the same day I see something of theirs I would like to Rep but wind up not doing so because I fear the invisible finger. A bias to prevent bias that somehow creates other biases.



I think it's very natural to end up repping someone who has repped you recently.Here's how it sometimes happens: someone leaves you a nice rep,perhaps it's a poster you've never noticed before and so just out of curiousity you look up their posts and come across something of theirs that strikes a chord with you so you rep 'em back.The very nature of repping is going to at least make you stick out a bit in a person's mind and on a very large board such as this one,giving rep means you might stick out a tiny bit more.


----------



## stan_der_man

wistful said:


> I really don't know how that's possible though.It seems whenver I rep any given individual, it's always a while until I can rep them once again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hold your mouse over your reputation cans, you will see a notation that says:

"wistful makes people happy by simply logging in."




Hold it over my reputation cans and it will say:

"fa_man_stan keeps pushing the rep limit!"


There are some categories with even more cryptic references... I'm just wondering what that is all about, we have yet to receive a strait answer. Maybe I really am a limit pusher... proud as hell about it too!


----------



## LoveBHMS

> In summery, I think the focus of the thin / average male FA frustration is this... It seems like there are all of these "protected classes" of people here in Dimensions, the super-sized females, the female FAs, the fat males, and the feeders.



The female FAs and feeders are not a 'protected class' the same way the 450+ thread is. Everyone has access to both of those boards. There are inumerable posts on the Weight Board which are written by people who have said elsewhere they either don't understand feederism or flat out think it's weird and/or disgusting. Many people who find it distasteful just stay off of it, but many of them read it and make remarks that are inside the "rules" but are so obviously snarky or ridiculing. Additionally, there have been many posts where men talk about fantasies or fetishes, only to be attacked for objectifying women, or told by women that they *might* be willing to do some guy the favor of accomodating him if they are treated properly. Whether or not some of these responses are well intentioned, they totally miss the point about fetishism insofar that most people with fetishes want somebody to share them, not just say "Ok, well....I guess i could see doing that for you just to be nice..IF I got something in return."

There have also been enough posts started by men who are clearly looking for stroke material to warrant women's nervousness. I am referring to the "Can the SSBBW please post about times when they've broken furniture/been unable to wipe themselves/been unable to fit places/gotten stuck going through a doorway/generally been limitted by their size." Obviously, these situations are arousing to some men; maybe not to you, but to some. There are enough paysite sets where women show themselves in a situation where they've outgrown clothing or gotten stuck someplace or again, been limitted due to their size that it's reasonable to say it is in keeping with a lot of FA fantasies.

With that in mind, I think having this board makes sense. Many of us would simply have nothing to contribute to such a board. Am I as curious as anyone? Sure. But if I've been excluded because the mod knows I'm not a SSBBW and therefore unlikely to be a valuable member of their community, I don't get to read it.


----------



## fatchicksrockuk

wistful said:


> I really don't know how that's possible though.It seems whenver I rep any given individual, it's always a while until I can rep them once again.



Thats the checks and measures I was talking about


----------



## daddyoh70

fa_man_stan said:


> In all honesty, the only thing I find to be wierd about this 450 Club thing is all the secrecy in how it was gone about.
> 
> How about a "Secret Society of FAs"... kinda like the Free Masons? We'll take the good FAs and make them better.
> 
> ...or just kick back and toss down some brewskies.





mfdoom said:


> do we get totally sweet secret club rings?



Here's a prototype, let me know what you think  I got some old bean bag chairs laying around too, looks like I have to invest in a pair of "horned rims" though


----------



## Gingembre

I get what fa_man_stan is saying about FAs getting type cast etc. Perhaps we could have an FA board for the thin/average FAs to chat about stuff (not exclusively, but just a place aimed towards them)? It would be a good place for new & younger FAs to talk about stuff/get advice. Just a thought.


----------



## Observer

fa_man_stan said:


> How about a "Secret Society of FAs"... kinda like the Free Masons? We'll take the good FAs and make them better.



Stan, not divulging any details about whether or where the SSFA already exists or not (because then I'd have to be dealt with severely), but how do you know it doesn't already exist? Secret groups are, after all, secret! 

Gingem, why should size be a requirement for your proposed board? In my experience most FA issues are relationship,. not size, oriented. Like: how do I come out of the closet among my friends and relatives, how do I treat a BBW and let her know my preferences in a way that doesn't get me tossed into the weird freak dumpster? How do I deal with the health/clothing/diet/(name your issue) subject etc.

FA's COULD use a private forum to discuss such issues privately - most of us (especially those under 30) have had to deal with topics of this nature. But how much interest would there be?


----------



## LillyBBBW

fa_man_stan said:


> ..........What I find noteworthy about this situation (and some others in the past...) is not the thread itself nor the circumstances surrounding it, but the amount of anger shown by the male FAs and how across the board it seems to be. Think about it... the premise of concealing a thread like yours BBMe is to keep it from being wank fodder. It's perfectly understandable for the super-sized ladies discussing potentially personal matters to have an expectation (or desire) that these sort of conversations will be respected, and to have a forum free from interruptions, and reasonably free from the thought that certain discussions are being viewed by some for personal (and conceivably disgusting) sexual arousal. My question is this... Who determined (and how) that there are FAs here in Dims (enough to warrant the concealment...) who would would be sexually aroused by these sorts of conversations? That's a pretty big assumption... And, it's a very demeaning assumption towards us male FAs. It seems like the male FAs are all being painted with the same filthy brush here in Dimensions that colors the perception of us in society as a whole.



Stan I just want to address this portion of your relevant and well written post. It is not an assumption that FA's in general get off on the difficulties SSBBW's face. It's a cold hard realization through years on this board and the internet that a lot of FA's do. Some years ago on the old board I posted about leaving the office and stopping to go to the ladies room. I was too lazy to remove my coat so I just dipped in the jon, but then had to remove my coat anyway because with it on I could not reach around to clean myself. I mentioned the realization that if I got bigger I would not be able to clean myself any longer and several FA's posted that they found this to be an incredible turn on. I personally didnt care but this is just one personal example. There have been multiple times when some FA's have expressed excitement over some of the miserys of living as an SSBBW. Because it's not you the concept may be vague but online as an SSBBW female the reality is up close and can be unsettling to say the least. Keeping men out is in no way a slap in the face to FA's. Letting _some_ FA's in has even been argued but doing so would be biased and unfair and would make some of the women who post there uncomfortable talking about personal issues knowing that men are watching so it was scrapped. Why would an FA need to read about my trip to the gyno?



fa_man_stan said:


> I suspect the individuals who would abuse the trust of viewing such a topic of discussion are a small minority of the male FA population here, the extreme fringe. Maybe I'm completely naive...? Please correct me if I'm wrong.



No Stan, you may clearly be right about this. It doesn't feel like it to us though. We've seen it enough times to be clearly shaken and aprehensive. The argument was made that we shouldn't even care about those bozos and just pay them no heed but some just can't do that. The idea was to create a comfortable atmosphere but it's compromised when people who may have something relevant to enhance the discussion are afraid to speak.



fa_man_stan said:


> Male FAs have to deal with plenty of suspicion from fat women (and others) in the outside world, it really is a kick in the groin getting the same treatment here within Dims. I very much enjoy and appreciate Dimensions, don't get me wrong... But this is one of the reasons I will never fully embrace what I perceive Dimensions stands for or at least how I as a FA am being viewed here within Dimensions. Either Dimensions is full of disgusting wankers with whom I would be embarrassed to be associated with, or I, even as a "typical" FA will always be viewed under a cloud of suspicion. (I'm exaggerating to make a point... I don't necessarily believe that...) My daily life is like that, I can get that shit anywhere. As a male FA, I feel that I'm not trusted (even respected at times) within a place that is supposed to be a haven for me.



And you know Stan, speaking only for myself I hate hate hate hate that. I hate that anyone is made to feel marginalized or labeled as a scoundrel and I think I speak for others as well in this. Nobody wants to make anybody feel marginalized or looked upon like a dirty dog. I don't think anyone intends to do that and I'm dissappointed that this atmosphere has been created here. There has been no intent to marginalize and I'm sure on some levels you know this already. But let me just use it as a comparative example of how it makes you 'feel.' If something like this can cause you to feel thusly, imagine how a few encounters with a morbid FA could effect the mind of an SSBBW weather the behavior is common or not. Still it bothers me that some of you are made to feel this way. It is not the common thought among women here.




fa_man_stan said:


> It seems many times that the male FAs are put in a position where they have to walk on eggshells not to upset the women, or constantly prove their trustworthiness. I'm fairly successful at avoiding conflict, but many of the other males here aren't. (I will acknowledge there are often times that the males have rightfully incurred the wrath of the women here... unfortunate but true...) The fact that Dimensions has (I think I can safely say...) a majority of women often makes it an awkward place for the males. I also think some of the resentment and anger by the (thin / average sized) FA males is because most of the new subcategories that have been recently created are geared towards non- (thin / average sized) male FAs... Supposedly Dimensions was created for all FAs. Your discussion group BBMe (for super-sized women), the BHM / FFA Board (for female FAs, and fat males), and the changes made in the Weight Board that were presumably geared towards protecting "feeder" type of discussions... are all examples of this.



Here I agree with you. Clearly there are certain aspects of being FA that can't be discussed without an all out war bursting fourth of which I've weilded my share of battlaxes in. I've expressed before that I would be in favor of this and was under the impression that somebody was on the case about it. I see the need for it but in the past these types of discussion groups don't go anywhere. The five people who participate while the other 500,000,000 are on the paysite board makes one wonder: How many subcategories and secret clubs do we really need here? How many "I don't want my friends to see my girlfriend" posts can one address in a whole forum? Maybe I stand to be corrected but the word on the street is, these FA exclusive enterprises are usually scarcely attended and die a quick death. the SSBBW thing is new and has never been tried before. The need for discussion seemed real enough so the group was started and has been tweaked and revised several times in order please and piss everyone off all at the same time. The benefits seem to outweight the negatives so far though. We're not in there gossiping about men or plotting a world takeover. I've tried to get the ball rolling in those areas but people just don't seem interested and the moderators said no.


----------



## Ruby Ripples

fa_man_stan said:


> Whoa! Just took a look at my heiny... whatduya know... Wow! Thanks for telling me BBMe! Me and that cheap tequila... oops...:blink: The autograph is still in great shape, not even smeared (looks like Elvis used a Sharpie fine point marker...) I oughta get that sucker grafted and framed... Betcha that little piece of my ass is worth some bucks! *Doin' a little happy dance... shakin' my "money maker*
> 
> 
> Anyhoo...
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't a rant directed at you BBMe by any means, and no one in particular, just at the situation here in general. You know that I have respect for you, your opinions, and I believe your sincerity BBMe. I have no illusion that Dimensions has any obligation to cater to my, or any of the other FAs sensibilities... It's Conrad's server, he can do whatever he wants. Now knowing how this 450 Club (or whatever it is called) was created I personally have no problem with that, or even it's concealed existence. I am a member of the Clubhouse, I have an "elitist" streak myself, I'd be a hypocrite to say otherwise.
> 
> What I find noteworthy about this situation (and some others in the past...) is not the thread itself nor the circumstances surrounding it, but the amount of anger shown by the male FAs and how across the board it seems to be. Think about it... the premise of concealing a thread like yours BBMe is to keep it from being wank fodder. It's perfectly understandable for the super-sized ladies discussing potentially personal matters to have an expectation (or desire) that these sort of conversations will be respected, and to have a forum free from interruptions, and reasonably free from the thought that certain discussions are being viewed by some for personal (and conceivably disgusting) sexual arousal. My question is this... Who determined (and how) that there are FAs here in Dims (enough to warrant the concealment...) who would would be sexually aroused by these sorts of conversations? That's a pretty big assumption... And, it's a very demeaning assumption towards us male FAs. It seems like the male FAs are all being painted with the same filthy brush here in Dimensions that colors the perception of us in society as a whole. I suspect the individuals who would abuse the trust of viewing such a topic of discussion are a small minority of the male FA population here, the extreme fringe. Maybe I'm completely naive...? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Male FAs have to deal with plenty of suspicion from fat women (and others) in the outside world, it really is a kick in the groin getting the same treatment here within Dims. I very much enjoy and appreciate Dimensions, don't get me wrong... But this is one of the reasons I will never fully embrace what I perceive Dimensions stands for or at least how I as a FA am being viewed here within Dimensions. Either Dimensions is full of disgusting wankers with whom I would be embarrassed to be associated with, or I, even as a "typical" FA will always be viewed under a cloud of suspicion. (I'm exaggerating to make a point... I don't necessarily believe that...) My daily life is like that, I can get that shit anywhere. As a male FA, I feel that I'm not trusted (even respected at times) within a place that is supposed to be a haven for me. It seems many times that the male FAs are put in a position where they have to walk on eggshells not to upset the women, or constantly prove their trustworthiness. I'm fairly successful at avoiding conflict, but many of the other males here aren't. (I will acknowledge there are often times that the males have rightfully incurred the wrath of the women here... unfortunate but true...) The fact that Dimensions has (I think I can safely say...) a majority of women often makes it an awkward place for the males. I also think some of the resentment and anger by the (thin / average sized) FA males is because most of the new subcategories that have been recently created are geared towards non- (thin / average sized) male FAs... Supposedly Dimensions was created for all FAs. Your discussion group BBMe (for super-sized women), the BHM / FFA Board (for female FAs, and fat males), and the changes made in the Weight Board that were presumably geared towards protecting "feeder" type of discussions... are all examples of this.
> 
> In summery, I think the focus of the thin / average male FA frustration is this... It seems like there are all of these "protected classes" of people here in Dimensions, the super-sized females, the female FAs, the fat males, and the feeders. The "average" male FA just gets drowned out in this sea of digital commotion, there isn't a place we can "gather" and discuss things uniquely "average" male FA. I would even go so far as to say this is one of the reasons there isn't an identifiable group of FAs promoting fat preferences, and fat acceptance here in Dims or anywhere else for that matter.
> 
> One thing I'd like to go on the record as saying. As much as I rant about the "feeders", I don't identify myself as a "feeder" per se, but I'm not anti-feeder by virtue of "to each his own"... I don't believe in passing judgement on people engaging in mutually consented activities. I don't like other's passing judgement on me either.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BBMe, it appears that you, I and others are members of the "Keeps pushing the rep limit!" Club... From what I can surmise, we are the riffraff of the rep castes (i.e. it takes pages of rep for us to receive cans, I'm assuming that we have been deemed "cliquish"...) I believe other rep castes receive cans more quickly than we do. Just hold your mouse over your reputation cans and see what it says. Lilly, you seem to have been pleasing the powers that be...
> 
> 
> The Chief apparently is also a humble member of our little "pushing the rep limit!" club...



I disagree with most of your post Stan but I have highlighted two points to reply to. The first point, you state that the ssbbw forum was made secret so it wouldn't be wank fodder. That is only ONE part of why it was made PRIVATE and Id be pretty confident that its not the main part. I am an ssbbw and that is NOT why I didn't post anything personal on it while it was available to all onlookers. I didn't post on it because it was no DAMN business of anyone else what difficulties or issues as an ssbbw I have in everyday life. They ARE very personal. I wanted to be able to discuss certain issues with other ssbbws, as I don't have any in my "real" life to discuss such things with, but clearly they are very personal so I didnt want any Tom, Dick or Harry reading all about it. For me personally, I have no issue with any guy wanking to anything I write on the open forums, people can and will wank to anything depending on what floats their boat, I did however have an issue with the type of people who read posts from morbid curiosity, thinking "ewww, gross" while they do. 

As an SSBBW I KNOW that men here are turned on by exactly the type of threads on the supersize forum, so yes we know better than you here, we are NOT demeaning the FAs who are not aroused by such things, and this is NO assumption. Its arrogant of you to ASSUME that anyone made that assumption. The SSBBWS who use the forums KNOW without a shadow of a doubt that there are MANY men here turned on by these things, as Lily stated already. We are pmd and messaged by them, so yes WE as the SSBBWS in question determined that. How would anyone other than an SSBBW know this? 

As to your your comments regarding people who are aroused by the supersize issues, I have seen you comment like this on another thread, and it disturbs me. What makes what you are turned on by, any less disgusting or any "better" than what another person is turned on by? You use words such as filthy and disgusting to describe the men that are turned on by the supersize issues, they're not. I'm sure you are friends with some on the boards and you don't even realise what gets them off. They are mostly decent people with a fetish. I'm sure there are people in your everyday life that would consider your arousal by bbws to be "disgusting", do you think you are?


----------



## Gingembre

Observer said:


> Gingem, why should size be a requirement for your proposed board? In my experience most FA issues are relationship,. not size, oriented. Like: how do I come out of the closet among my friends and relatives, how do I treat a BBW and let her know my preferences in a way that doesn't get me tossed into the weird freak dumpster? How do I deal with the health/clothing/diet/(name your issue) subject etc.
> 
> FA's COULD use a private forum to discuss such issues privately - most of us (especially those under 30) have had to deal with topics of this nature. But how much interest would there be?



I didnt mean that size would be a requirement, I just meant that it shouldn't be just for big FAs and should be for relationship/life issues, not size ones. Does it matter if it's not as active as the other boards? It would at least be a place to archive advice & info for issues that come up fairly frequently, and somewhere newbies can refer to. Sorry, I'm not explaining myself very well.


----------



## LalaCity

Maybe some of the topics involve embarrassing personal issues that, frankly, the women who are discussing just don't want to telegraph around the world...especially to guys..


----------



## liz (di-va)

I am confused--still--why people take the formation of a private SSBBW board personally. I wouldn't care if there was a BHM or FA or midsize or whatever private board--people have a right to create spaces to discuss things pertinent only to themselves. I wouldn't assume they wouldn't talk in public too (you'll notice that hasn't happened here).

It seems to be a basic reaction to the "private club" concept. Which, you know, I understand. I don't mean to be cavalier about anybody's feelings of hurt or exclusion. I would care...but I think I would suck it up. Actually, *I have often,* in other contexts, when I wasn't SSBBW-sized yet. NAAFA meetings, the Fat!So? board, IRC channels, etc.

Also--the SSBBW board isn't a club for the sake of being a club--and it isn't dragging all discussion of weight and health and sex and clothes with it, either (look around at all the other boards--clearly not) -- just talking about some of the issues from a SSBBW-specific POV first. I wouldn't want that either.

Dimensions is a site that encompasses a lot of different approaches to the fat experience. Since a big one is sexual images of fat women--which I have no problem with! just noting--it makes sense that a little extra effort might be necessary to create a safe space where the images--the objects--of a certain size get to be exclusively PEOPLE. With their own issues. I think it's to the site's real credit that it exists, actually.

I don't assume every FA out there is a wanky twit and therefore I can't trust. Remotely. But please--it's the internet. There is a real need for privacy sometimes if there is going to be real discussion.

I do like to think that there is a spirit of openness in general on this site. I would (I hope) never say one thing on one board and be a different person on another...I try to represent my POV consistently. But I do think it's good for some very specific population-related issues to have a safe place to talk about them.

I think you could look at it in a rising tide lifts all boats way--people might feel more free to talk about themselves / some issues outside of the SSBBW board if they need to, if they gain confidence there. I don't mean in any confidence-betraying way!! Just...you never know.

My $.02, hope I articulated this okay.


----------



## imfree

We now have a thread for BHM's over 400 lbs.


----------



## Emma

It's pretty simple really. 

SSBBW need somewhere to feel safe to discuss their problems and don't want anyone to 'get off' over it. And we all know there are some FAs who do (and there is NOTHING wrong with that) it's just these women choose not to use their problems to fulfil other peoples fantasies. They don't have to, it's not their obligation. 

It's no secret society, it's not even that interesting there. It's just some of us women discussing problems that we need solutions too.

edited: I'd like to add that I think ssbhms should be allowed in too, but it's not my place to allow so.


----------



## imfree

CurvyEm said:


> It's pretty simple really.
> 
> SSBBW need somewhere to feel safe to discuss their problems and don't want anyone to 'get off' over it. And we all know there are some FAs who do (and there is NOTHING wrong with that) it's just these women choose not to use their problems to fulfil other peoples fantasies. They don't have to, it's not their obligation.
> 
> It's no secret society, it's not even that interesting there. It's just some of us women discussing problems that we need solutions too.
> 
> edited: I'd like to add that I think ssbhms should be allowed in too, but it's not my place to allow so.



SSBHMs being in there sounded good to me
until I considered that creeps may be able
to falsify their profiles and get in.


----------



## furious styles

I know what Stan is trying to say here. I hate having to deal with people that think I'm some sort of freak. People that see a movie like Feed and then assume I'm a fetish obsessed weirdo, a bad human being. How do I know the ladies here don't suspect ME of these sort of things? I don't. I can't, that's the nature of humanity. But we all suffer from generalizations. It's not an fa-centric campaign, and I'm no martyr.

This forum wasn't made with reinforcing generalizations in mind. It's an unfortunate byproduct of the fact that reality calls for those generalizations. In a perfect world, it wouldn't have to be made. The world is far from perfect. The forum is merited in this case. End of discussion, I would say. (though imfree might have a point)


----------



## Santaclear

I for one am quite satisfied wanking to this thread.


----------



## stan_der_man

daddyoh70 said:


> Here's a prototype, let me know what you think  I got some old bean bag chairs laying around too, looks like I have to invest in a pair of "horned rims" though


I'm all for this Daddyoh, although with the price of precious medals what it is now-a-days, I'd probably have to go for plastic or chromed steel...

Seriously, how many guys would be interested in forming a group of FAs...a club, SIG... something along those lines, with the basic premise being a male FA group that promotes fat acceptance and a positive image for FAs? We could start a thread and see what happens. I always thought it would be cool to have a FA gathering at a potential Dims Bash. Another possibility that would be interesting is a "meeting" via a Skype cast. Just some ideas I've been considering to post on the "Main Board".



Observer said:


> Stan, not divulging any details about whether or where the SSFA already exists or not (because then I'd have to be dealt with severely), but how do you know it doesn't already exist? Secret groups are, after all, secret!
> ...



Aww crud! Somebody beat me to forming a secret society! Well... maybe a public one would be a first then! 




Observer said:


> FA's COULD use a private forum to discuss such issues privately - most of us (especially those under 30) have had to deal with topics of this nature. But how much interest would there be?


The problem with the private chat rooms and such is that they aren't that straight forward to use, and they aren't a permanent and static "meeting place". Getting a group of guys together and maintaining interest in said group is difficult enough as it is. Having a thread constantly slide down the "Main Board" or something that will have to be coordinated every time via PM only makes it more difficult. Even if a "FA SIG" board turns out to be a failure, it's not like Conrad would be paying rent on an empty room...





LillyBBBW said:


> Stan I just want to address this portion of your relevant and well written post.
> ...


Thanks for the complement Lilly. I know from past dialogs that we basically see eye to eye on this subject from the viewpoint of our own personal perspectives. I have to admit that the idea of the male FA's concerns being lost in all the activity here in Dims came from one of your previous posts. 




Ruby Ripples said:


> I disagree with most of your post Stan but I have highlighted two points to reply to.
> ...
> I'm sure you are friends with some on the boards and you don't even realise what gets them off. They are mostly decent people with a fetish. I'm sure there are people in your everyday life that would consider your arousal by bbws to be "disgusting", do you think you are?


Oh Ruby... I always respect your opinions, as I do others who disagree with me... I've written that to you before. We seem to disagree on so many things that I'd probably reconsider a position upon which we held common ground... 

I did point out that part of my arguement, and usage of terms was exaggeration for emphasis. I also mentioned that I don't pass judgement on "feeders". As for my past rants (which I'll admit to having plenty...  ) you may be refering to (what I call) my "arsenic in the water" rant about that Anonymous Feeder guy and his "fattening and poop fetish". In that case (if that's what you are refering to Ruby...?) it was his example that I felt taints the image of others. You may be right Ruby, maybe I dwell too much on how I perceive the example of others effects me or people like me. But I do not pass judgement on people! I don't even like to use the words "fetish" and "pornography" because of their overly judgmental nature. Look back at my posts I almost always put these words in quotation.

We males are often told... "Oh you just don't understand because you aren't a woman", or thin FAs are told... "You don't understand because you aren't fat." Maybe this is a case of women not understanding the male perspective?





liz (di-va) said:


> I am confused--still--why people take the formation of a private SSBBW board personally. ...


I completely agree with you Liz... you articulated yourself perfectly as always. Personally I think anger directed specifically at a private SSBBW board (for whatever reason) is completely missplaced. I think a SSBBW board is perfectly understandable, and perfectly justified. As I wrote, I think the phenomenon that male FAs always seem to get in a dander over things like this is something that should be addressed and understood. Much of this anger is over an accumulation of slights towards the males, not so much this SSBBW board in particular... this is one of many things. I think there is a valid arguement that, in many cases the males are treated like stepchildren here at Dimensions. Whether this is a valid perception or not is debateable, but I think it is a perception that is pervasive and that, at very least should be addressed. I will be interested to see if Imfree's thread will be treated equally as the idea of a SSBBW board has been handled. My theory is that it won't be... and why? Because Imfree is male. That is no better than discriminating against a female. Period. If anybody has a justification as to why Imfree's concerns are any different than a females, by all means let's hear them.

I myself (to a certain extent) share the perception that males are treated differently her at Dims, or at least that Dims could do better at creating an environment where a men's group could thrive. I sometimes wonder how many good males have come here, gotten this same impression as I have, bailed out in the dead of the night to never to return and just went and got themselves a skinny girl. If that's true it doesn't bode well many of the complaints that the females have about there always being a shortage of "good men".

Imfree's thread... BTW...


----------



## ripley

It did bother me to think that men might get aroused by things that I felt deeply and caused me personal heartache. But the main reason I wanted it private? It was because I don't want people who aren't SS being able to look at my issues and be able to say "Oh my God I will NEVER let myself get that big" or "Eww, can you believe ripley has to deal with THAT??" And don't doubt that it would happen even here at Dims.

So yeah...nose out of joint over it? Too bad. 

I know that I for one would never, ever post some stuff if it was for public consumption...I think that if the SSIssues forum was public that not one real SSBBW would be posting to it. Without it being private it would not work.


----------



## AnnMarie

ripley said:


> It did bother me to think that men might get aroused by things that I felt deeply and caused me personal heartache. But the main reason I wanted it private? It was because I don't want people who aren't SS being able to look at my issues and be able to say "Oh my God I will NEVER let myself get that big" or "Eww, can you believe ripley has to deal with THAT??" And don't doubt that it would happen even here at Dims.
> 
> So yeah...nose out of joint over it? Too bad.
> 
> I know that I for one would never, ever post some stuff if it was for public consumption...I think that if the SSIssues forum was public that not one real SSBBW would be posting to it. Without it being private it would not work.



You're right in that the majority would not, but some were advocates for it being open to all. You're also right in that the purpose it serves (very small and specialized) would never be served in a public setting. 

I would still participate openly if it were open, but I fully realize that most would not - therefore I believe it's doing the best job for the audience it was intended for as a "protected" forum. I think private implies looking out from behind a wall with disdain on those excluded. Protected is just that. 

Anyway, if it helps anyone - it's not a girls "clubhouse" type place, it's very specific, very on topic and - as someone else pointed out - pretty damn quiet. There is nothing going on there that detracts from the rest of the community - and that's exactly how it should be. 

Oh, and it's not a secret... LOL - clearly, was never intended to be, as Ginny mentioned.


----------



## Sandie S-R

Stan,

Just to clarify a bit, since I am also a moderator in the SS forum. First the ladies are discussing some things that most men are not going to want to even read. I'm pretty sure that clotty menstrual cycles and bathroom issues are not something that will turn too many guys on. However, we have had some posts in the health forums early beginnings from FAs who do get turned on seeing SS women struggle with difficulties. While I know that the majority of you guys are great guys, the ladies would just like the privacy to discuss their personal problems with some dignity, and preserve a little of the mystery (so to speak).

Please understand that this is not meant as a slight to any of the men here. As I said, most of you (present company included) are really wonderful guys!!

Sandie




fa_man_stan said:


> ...snip...Anyhoo...
> 
> This isn't a rant directed at you BBMe by any means, and no one in particular, just at the situation here in general. You know that I have respect for you, your opinions, and I believe your sincerity BBMe. I have no illusion that Dimensions has any obligation to cater to my, or any of the other FAs sensibilities... It's Conrad's server, he can do whatever he wants. Now knowing how this 450 Club (or whatever it is called) was created I personally have no problem with that, or even it's concealed existence. I am a member of the Clubhouse, I have an "elitist" streak myself, I'd be a hypocrite to say otherwise.
> 
> What I find noteworthy about this situation (and some others in the past...) is not the thread itself nor the circumstances surrounding it, but the amount of anger shown by the male FAs and how across the board it seems to be. Think about it... the premise of concealing a thread like yours BBMe is to keep it from being wank fodder. It's perfectly understandable for the super-sized ladies discussing potentially personal matters to have an expectation (or desire) that these sort of conversations will be respected, and to have a forum free from interruptions, and reasonably free from the thought that certain discussions are being viewed by some for personal (and conceivably disgusting) sexual arousal. My question is this... Who determined (and how) that there are FAs here in Dims (enough to warrant the concealment...) who would would be sexually aroused by these sorts of conversations? That's a pretty big assumption... And, it's a very demeaning assumption towards us male FAs. It seems like the male FAs are all being painted with the same filthy brush here in Dimensions that colors the perception of us in society as a whole. I suspect the individuals who would abuse the trust of viewing such a topic of discussion are a small minority of the male FA population here, the extreme fringe. Maybe I'm completely naive...? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Male FAs have to deal with plenty of suspicion from fat women (and others) in the outside world, it really is a kick in the groin getting the same treatment here within Dims. I very much enjoy and appreciate Dimensions, don't get me wrong... But this is one of the reasons I will never fully embrace what I perceive Dimensions stands for or at least how I as a FA am being viewed here within Dimensions. Either Dimensions is full of disgusting wankers with whom I would be embarrassed to be associated with, or I, even as a "typical" FA will always be viewed under a cloud of suspicion. (I'm exaggerating to make a point... I don't necessarily believe that...) My daily life is like that, I can get that shit anywhere. As a male FA, I feel that I'm not trusted (even respected at times) within a place that is supposed to be a haven for me. It seems many times that the male FAs are put in a position where they have to walk on eggshells not to upset the women, or constantly prove their trustworthiness. I'm fairly successful at avoiding conflict, but many of the other males here aren't. (I will acknowledge there are often times that the males have rightfully incurred the wrath of the women here... unfortunate but true...) The fact that Dimensions has (I think I can safely say...) a majority of women often makes it an awkward place for the males. I also think some of the resentment and anger by the (thin / average sized) FA males is because most of the new subcategories that have been recently created are geared towards non- (thin / average sized) male FAs... Supposedly Dimensions was created for all FAs. Your discussion group BBMe (for super-sized women), the BHM / FFA Board (for female FAs, and fat males), and the changes made in the Weight Board that were presumably geared towards protecting "feeder" type of discussions... are all examples of this.
> 
> In summery, I think the focus of the thin / average male FA frustration is this... It seems like there are all of these "protected classes" of people here in Dimensions, the super-sized females, the female FAs, the fat males, and the feeders. The "average" male FA just gets drowned out in this sea of digital commotion, there isn't a place we can "gather" and discuss things uniquely "average" male FA. I would even go so far as to say this is one of the reasons there isn't an identifiable group of FAs promoting fat preferences, and fat acceptance here in Dims or anywhere else for that matter.
> 
> One thing I'd like to go on the record as saying. As much as I rant about the "feeders", I don't identify myself as a "feeder" per se, but I'm not anti-feeder by virtue of "to each his own"... I don't believe in passing judgement on people engaging in mutually consented activities. I don't like other's passing judgement on me either.
> 
> ....snip...


----------



## ripley

AnnMarie said:


> You're right in that the majority would not, but some were advocates for it being open to all. You're also right in that the purpose it serves (very small and specialized) would never be served in a public setting.
> 
> I would still participate openly if it were open, but I fully realize that most would not - therefore I believe it's doing the best job for the audience it was intended for as a "protected" forum. I think private implies looking out from behind a wall with disdain on those excluded. Protected is just that.
> 
> Anyway, if it helps anyone - it's not a girls "clubhouse" type place, it's very specific, very on topic and - as someone else pointed out - pretty damn quiet. There is nothing going on there that detracts from the rest of the community - and that's exactly how it should be.
> 
> Oh, and it's not a secret... LOL - clearly, was never intended to be, as Ginny mentioned.




You're right! Some would still post. Sorry 'bout that.


Quiet? So we're not supposed to mention the naked pillow fights, I take it?


----------



## stan_der_man

Sandie S-R said:


> Stan,
> ...
> Please understand that this is not meant as a slight to any of the men here. As I said, most of you (present company included) are really wonderful guys!!
> 
> Sandie



Just curious... What do you think the probability is that Imfree will receive the same treatment regarding this? I think he has an equal situation...


Imfree's thread


I'm not trying to be argumentative Sandie, I think this is a very valid point, the males are often treated differently.


----------



## ripley

Your posts in that thread confused and disheartened me, Stan. 

Do you really believe that FAs are that ill treated here? Can you tell me why, specifically, you hold that view?


----------



## LillyBBBW

fa_man_stan said:


> I will be interested to see if Imfree's thread will be treated equally as the idea of a SSBBW board has been handled. My theory is that it won't be... and why? Because Imfree is male.
> 
> Imfree's thread... BTW...



Stan my theory is also that it won't be. Why? Because the thread has been dangling there for hours and nobody is interested but you and you are not even a BHM. It has since been moved to the BHM board and still nobody is biting. Could be that everyone is out for the weekend, I dunno. But BBM's post was posted on Friday and was three pages long by Saturday morning. There was an outpouring of interest, the circumstances brought about the discussion of a private forum due to concerns voiced by many. 

I don't mean to invalidate your feelings but this is sounding more and more like petty bean counting on this particular issue. We agree on a lot of things however I think raising a stink about the SSBBW forum is barking up the wrong tree. There is no fire or injustice here. If you want to raise an issue about privacy for the feeder fantasy forum I might be somewhat persuaded but the idea that there are legions of fat men crying out other than to whine about not being able to peep all the gyno threads in the SSBBW forum just isn't convincing.


----------



## stan_der_man

Observer said:


> Stan, not divulging any details about
> ...



Oh hey, "Observer"... Just curious... Any inside scoop on what this "keeps pushing the rep limit!" category means regarding my reputation cans? It takes at least two pages of reps from people (diverse I might add...) to earn another can, when it takes others fewer. It was those anti-feeder rants.. wasn't it?



Here's a little background music for us while we wait for an answer...



Lock this thread... Ban me... Fail to respond... Prove my point... I dare you.


----------



## AnnMarie

fa_man_stan said:


> Oh hey, "Observer"... Just curious... Any inside scoop on what this "keeps pushing the rep limit!" category means regarding my reputation cans? It takes at least two pages of reps from people (diverse I might add...) to earn another can, when it takes others fewer. It was those anti-feeder rants.. wasn't it...
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a little background music for us while we wait for an answer...
> 
> 
> 
> Lock this thread... Ban me... Fail to respond... Prove my point... I dare you.



Stan you're going to be on those cans for a LONG time... I think it was well over 2000 points before I got the star... took months and months. 

So yeah, kick back and make yourself a frosty beverage.


----------



## ripley

As far as I understand it, quite awhile ago Conrad "named" the cans. He only went so far, though. So the last category was "keeps pushing the rep limit!" as in, keeps getting rep but those ones haven't been named yet. 

No nefarious meaning. No hidden slight. 

(If memory serves me right, he took recommendations...I believe it was FatLane who was responsible for two cans being "is now eligible for toucan jokes.")


----------



## Sandie S-R

fa_man_stan said:


> Just curious... What do you think the probability is that Imfree will receive the same treatment regarding this? I think he has an equal situation...
> 
> 
> Imfree's thread
> 
> 
> I'm not trying to be argumentative Sandie, I think this is a very valid point, the males are often treated differently.



Here's the thing Stan. Is there a serious and real need for a private place for SS men to discuss their needs? If enough SS men (over 350, over 400?) felt a need to have a private place to discuss things that they can't or won't discuss in the regular forums, I certainly think Conrad would take it into consideration. 

I still do not see how this SS women only forum is a slight to the men. The women saw a need, and presented it to Conrad. He agreed and the forum was started. If the men truly feel there is a need, then by all means someone head it up, put the info together and present it to Conrad.

~S


----------



## stan_der_man

Sandie S-R said:


> Here's the thing Stan. Is there a serious and real need for a private place for SS men to discuss their needs? If enough SS men (over 350, over 400?) felt a need to have a private place to discuss things that they can't or won't discuss in the regular forums, I certainly think Conrad would take it into consideration.
> 
> I still do not see how this SS women only forum is a slight to the men. The women saw a need, and presented it to Conrad. He agreed and the forum was started. If the men truly feel there is a need, then by all means someone head it up, put the info together and present it to Conrad.
> 
> ~S



You know I respect you Sandie.. again not trying to be argumentative.

So you are saying that the males are being treated differently because of numbers? It's not like it costs money to create a board. As for a simple FA SIG type board (open, but slated as male FA only) that's been asked for plenty of times in the past.

To pin-point what I see as a slight to the males with this whole SSBBW board... It seemed to happen so easily and quickly. What formal presentation process did the ladies go through? The guys have been asking for a place for a quite a while, this is nothing new. I know being sarcastic probably isn't going to win the graces of Conrad, but at this point I don't see what there is to loose.


----------



## liz (di-va)

A few things I keep thinking:

- As far as I can tell, men don't like to talk about their feelings as much. Men don't discuss things as much, period, as a way of handling them. I have agreed before about the need for an FA thread/place, for some of the reasons you're saying, Stan (I think), but as Edx pointed out in other contexts...nobody participates in them. Men didn't seem to want to. Not that I think people shouldn't try.

- It's becoming a little fuzzy if we're talking about FAs or BHMs here. Obviously there is overlap; I just mean...whose population's concerns are you wondering about? (not entirely clear) They are not the same.

- What if _Playboy_ had a board for photos and then boards where the models talk about the pain of using boob-stick tape or liposuction or tattooed eyelashes or bikini-waxing or the mixed bag that is their physical existence? Would the guys that pay for their photos want to read that? How would that work?

Dimensions is a site that encompasses a *lot* of facets of the fat experience. Fantasy AND reality. Activism, food, porn (I don't have a problem with that word--whatever word you'd to describe it), the people behind the porn, sexuality, singlehood, health, far-out fringey sexuality, clothing, whatever. It is hard to make it all fit, since in some ways fat is the only thing we have in common.

As such...some men do get their needs met with (chances are good) just the porny side, and that's it. They don't need other threads for discussion. But fat women...look at how many paysite models participate under various guises. I think it's a matter of articulated needs, the various boards. Chances are good the average fat woman has a lot more to talk about than photos, coming here. Chances are good a thoughtful FA has a lot to talk about too, but many men don't use the site that way.

I think you can trust, though, that women, if they're paying attention, don't lump all dudes around here in one pile. In fact, I think you could argue (one reason this all seems kinda off) that we spend AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF TIME doing that, figuring out who's on the upandup. One thing that women really want to know.

I guess I would be frustrated at times if I were a nice-guy FA around here sometimes--and FYI in chat I often speak up against tedious wholesale FA bashing, which seems as reductive and pointless as fat-bashing--but in the end the onus is on men to speak up about their needs. Women having a board doesn't take away from anything of men's, quite the opposite.


----------



## Santaclear

fa_man_stan said:


> You know I respect you Sandie.. again not trying to be argumentative.
> 
> So you are saying that the males are being treated differently because of numbers? It's not like it costs money to create a board. As for a simple FA SIG type board (open, but slated as male FA only) that's been asked for plenty of times in the past.
> 
> To pin-point what I see as a slight to the males with this whole SSBBW board... It seemed to happen so easily and quickly. What formal presentation process did the ladies go through? The guys have been asking for a place for a quite a while, this is nothing new. I know being sarcastic probably isn't going to win the graces of Conrad, but at this point I don't see what there is to loose.



Stan, the women want that place so they can feel safe. They were asking for it for quite a while and maybe in your eyes it happened easily and quickly but I don't believe that's so. These other issues you bring up are really unrelated IMO.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

fa_man_stan said:


> You know I respect you Sandie.. again not trying to be argumentative.
> 
> So you are saying that the males are being treated differently because of numbers? It's not like it costs money to create a board. As for a simple FA SIG type board (open, but slated as male FA only) that's been asked for plenty of times in the past.
> 
> To pin-point what I see as a slight to the males with this whole SSBBW board... It seemed to happen so easily and quickly. What formal presentation process did the ladies go through? The guys have been asking for a place for a quite a while, this is nothing new. I know being sarcastic probably isn't going to win the graces of Conrad, but at this point I don't see what there is to loose.




It wasn't really quick or easy, and included lots of hurt feelings (mine included a time or two).


----------



## Sandie S-R

fa_man_stan said:


> You know I respect you Sandie.. again not trying to be argumentative.
> 
> So you are saying that the males are being treated differently because of numbers? It's not like it costs money to create a board. As for a simple FA SIG type board (open, but slated as male FA only) that's been asked for plenty of times in the past.
> 
> To pin-point what I see as a slight to the males with this whole SSBBW board... It seemed to happen so easily and quickly. What formal presentation process did the ladies go through? The guys have been asking for a place for a quite a while, this is nothing new. I know being sarcastic probably isn't going to win the graces of Conrad, but at this point I don't see what there is to loose.



It's not about numbers per se...it's just that the women got very pro-active.

Again, Stan...here's is what it takes. Someone, anyone step up to the plate. Take on the helm as the organizer. Get all the names of the men who want to participate. Be sure they are all on board. Type up what the board parameters will be and the names of the men that want to be involved, and PM or e-mail the information to Conrad, in a succinct fashion and request a response from him. 

Have you done all those things?? Because the women did. And, this SS women's forum has been worked on for months - we have had a massive ongoing debate and convo about it in the moderator's forum. And we just today finally worked out the final bugs on it (I think). So trust me, this was far from being quick or easy. In fact it was quite a nightmare for a while.


----------



## LillyBBBW

fa_man_stan said:


> You know I respect you Sandie.. again not trying to be argumentative.
> 
> So you are saying that the males are being treated differently because of numbers? It's not like it costs money to create a board. As for a simple FA SIG type board (open, but slated as male FA only) that's been asked for plenty of times in the past.
> 
> To pin-point what I see as a slight to the males with this whole SSBBW board... It seemed to happen so easily and quickly. What formal presentation process did the ladies go through? The guys have been asking for a place for a quite a while, this is nothing new. I know being sarcastic probably isn't going to win the graces of Conrad, but at this point I don't see what there is to loose.



Those issues are not comparable. The most interest I've seen generated in such a forum has been 5 people. Interest has been tepid in comparison. Besides that it has been done before many times and proved unfruitful. Stan I'm so sorry that you feel this way but really, the needs of the FA community are not comparable. I would stand firmly behind any effort placed into doing things that truly target the unique and tangible concerns voiced by the majority of FA's here, not just pointless copy cat productions to satisfy conspiracy suspicions. The interest just hasn't been strong thus far.


----------



## liz (di-va)

fa_man_stan said:


> It seemed to happen so easily and quickly. What formal presentation process did the ladies go through?



Are you _kidding_? Months of debate, teetering personal relationships, enormous upheaval. 

That's enough outta me for this thread...need fatty fun.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Stan just for shits and giggles I went over there just to look and take a rough count of how many posted interest in an SSBBW forum and I counted 60 women. The qualifications for being in that forum is the subject of much heated controvercy as there are still more women interested in being members there. I'm not privy to that list though. This very thread you are standing on is a repeated request on the issue and it took months before the actual forum was created.


----------



## Ruby Ripples

fa_man_stan said:


> Oh Ruby... I always respect your opinions, as I do others who disagree with me... I've written that to you before. We seem to disagree on so many things that I'd probably reconsider a position upon which we held common ground...
> 
> I did point out that part of my arguement, and usage of terms was exaggeration for emphasis. I also mentioned that I don't pass judgement on "feeders". As for my past rants (which I'll admit to having plenty...  ) you may be refering to (what I call) my "arsenic in the water" rant about that Anonymous Feeder guy and his "fattening and poop fetish". In that case (if that's what you are refering to Ruby...?) it was his example that I felt taints the image of others. You may be right Ruby, maybe I dwell too much on how I perceive the example of others effects me or people like me. But I do not pass judgement on people! I don't even like to use the words "fetish" and "pornography" because of their overly judgmental nature. Look back at my posts I almost always put these words in quotation.
> 
> We males are often told... "Oh you just don't understand because you aren't a woman", or thin FAs are told... "You don't understand because you aren't fat." Maybe this is a case of women not understanding the male perspective?
> 
> Imfree's thread... BTW...



I can't see where you said that part of your argument and usage of terms was exaggeration for emphasis? However, even if you did, you clearly used the words disgusting and how you don't like being painted with the same filthy brush... etc. Those are extremely strong words to use. Even if you WERE exaggerating, you ARE still saying that their desires are "bad" or "wrong". To say you were exaggerating doesn't change the fact you made those comments and your opinion. So actually, YES you were being judgemental, whether you admit to it or not. It's there in black and white, Stan. 

With regard to your comment about "you don't understand.. etc", in this instance I was replying clearly and plainly to your previous questions of who determined that there are enough FA men aroused by supersize issues posts to decide that it warranted a private ssbbw board, and your comment then that is was very demeaning to the FAs. Instead of replying to my clear answer to your question and comment there, you have tried to somehow turn it into women not understanding the male perspective?? Interesting way to try to remove the focus from the clear explanation of how you were wrong in that instance.

I take each individual post on its merit, rather than noticing the poster per se, so I hadn't noticed that I disagree a lot with you.


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

It'd be interesting to see a poll thread for the FA only forum. 

I'm not entirely sure what would come out of the FA only forum .. I'd probably just end up getting pissed off more often.


----------



## Sandie S-R

BothGunsBlazing said:


> It'd be interesting to see a poll thread for the FA only forum.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure what would come out of the FA only forum .. I'd probably just end up getting pissed off more often.



I understand BGB. I think that is a huge concern here. I also think it might be a problem to get all the men interested in a private forum to agree on the nature of the private forum. What would be discussed, etc. 

We women had some difficulty getting this all ironed out. Trust me it is no cake walk.


----------



## Tina

Hi Stan. 


fa_man_stan said:


> To pin-point what I see as a slight to the males with this whole SSBBW board... It seemed to happen so easily and quickly.


Ha!! You have no idea.  First, you have no idea all of the stuff that went into the creation and running of that board. It was so involved I can't even say. I'm not a mod, but was privy to its creation and it was a huge effort from multiple people. It's kind of like moderation in that ideally, it's seamless and you rarely see it. What went on behind the scenes were anything but quick and easy, believe me.

There is something else I would like to address. Somewhere 'back there' in this thread you mentioned that it was insulting that some of us didn't want to be wank fodder for those FAs who are so inclined (I think all of us women know that not all FAs are created equal and do not paint all FAs, or men, with the same brush, however...). Let me give you a bit of backstory on that, from my POV alone.

Some years ago, on the Weight Board -- the old one, not this one -- a guy posted a pic of his wife or g/f's (don't remember) legs. They were likely what an FA would term shapely, and very large, but they also had very painful-looking red bumps and areas (the signs of advanced lymphedema, which I didn't know at the time, but would become very personal to me later). These guys completely ignored what looked like a very painful thing for that woman and only praised her legs. Okay, fine. But I said something about how painful her legs look to be and got yelled at. 

A couple of years later, I find I have lymphedema myself, and find out that it surely can be very painful. Advanced lymphedema can cause muscle spasms and also nerve pains when the legs are too full of fluid (and even when they're not too full), and the red areas and bumps are from lymphatic fluid that cannot move because the lymph nodes no longer work and the legs are not being treated properly to get the fluid moving. Being a bit like electricity in that lymphatic fluid will take the path of least resistance, the fluid tries to get out whatever way it can, which sometimes means blistering and bumps on the skin and sometimes legs that weep what looks like water, but is in fact lymphatic fluid.

Fast forward to a thread on our health board here -- and this is just an example, one which I feel free to give because it is my own in part, but I've seen this a number of times -- a thread on lymphedema. Some yahoo posts to the thread, evidently having read the accounts of difficulties with mobility, nerve pains, untreated swelling which is very uncomfortable, etc., to say how hot it is.

Over time, I have seen a number (not most, by any means, so no broad-brush painting, okay?) of FAs talk about how hot they find it when a very fat woman struggles to walk, struggles to exercise -- just basically struggles in life. They don't just like it, it gets them hard. THIS is what I referred to in my post, without laying it out. But because I consider you a friend and respect you greatly, I am laying it out for you. I do not confuse you and the good guys with some of the men who get pleasure from our pain. But on a board that in great measure objectifies women for our bodies (and let's face it, if some of us didn't enjoy at least a little objectification, we wouldn't post pics, eh?), where there are posts with brutal, gruesome fantasy stories about our pain and sometimes demise, the last thing we want is to be objectified and sexualized for is our real-life misery.

I hope this helps you to better understand the portion of my post that you quoted, and helps you to feel less marginalized and insulted, if that is what you are feeling. Personally, I think it's a great idea for BHMs to have their own board, if it's what they feel they need. Sandie gives great instructions for such a thing, and if the men feel a great need for it, as us SSBBW did, I hope it happens for them.


----------



## Waxwing

It can feel shitty and unfair to be excluded, but it can also hurt to feel like you don't have a place in which you can be totally and completely honest without worrying about what other people are thinking when they read your words. The purpose of that board, as I see it, is to give those women a place they can say anything and everything, without wondering if there's someone who is there to gawk, who is there for spank fodder, who is there out of morbid curiosity. 

Everyone needs a place where they can feel safe, and we have no right to begrudge one group theirs. None of us have an inalienable right to know everything that goes on in someone else's life, or in someone else's mind.


----------



## Observer

Stan -

To answer your specific question to myself, I know virtually nothing about the rep system or cans because I'm not into the can and rep acquisition game that some seem to enjoy. Those that I have garnered were honestly earned because some seem to find my Hyde Park posts of some value and others liked my library contributions.

As for a private FA forum, I support the concept but wonder about the participation level. I personally think that some FA's could stand to be encouraged to come out of the closet; others need to be mentored on their social graces towards women; still others need help in dealing with the weight issues of their SO. 

If enough community members were willing to seek such help in a private FA forum I'd certainly participate. But how many really desire such a venue is questionable. Certainly the desire for an SSBBW forum manifested itself very obviously.


----------



## stan_der_man

Ruby Ripples said:


> fa_man_stan said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...
> for personal (and conceivably disgusting) sexual arousal. My question is this... Who determined (and how) that there are FAs here in Dims (enough to warrant the concealment...) who would would be sexually aroused by these sorts of conversations? That's a pretty big assumption... And, it's a very demeaning assumption towards us male FAs. It seems like the male FAs are all being painted with the same filthy brush here in Dimensions that colors the perception of us in society as a whole. I suspect the individuals who would abuse the trust of viewing such a topic of discussion are a small minority of the male FA population here, the extreme fringe. Maybe I'm completely naive...? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Male FAs have to deal with plenty of suspicion from fat women (and others) in the outside world, it really is a kick in the groin getting the same treatment here within Dims. I very much enjoy and appreciate Dimensions, don't get me wrong... But this is one of the reasons I will never fully embrace what I perceive Dimensions stands for or at least how I as a FA am being viewed here within Dimensions. Either Dimensions is full of disgusting wankers with whom I would be embarrassed to be associated with, or I, even as a "typical" FA will always be viewed under a cloud of suspicion. (I'm exaggerating to make a point... I don't necessarily believe that...) My daily life is like that, ...
> 
> 
> 
> I can't see where you said that part of your argument and usage of terms was exaggeration for emphasis? However, even if you did, you clearly used the words disgusting and how you don't like being painted with the same filthy brush... etc. Those are extremely strong words to use. Even if you WERE exaggerating, you ARE still saying that their desires are "bad" or "wrong". To say you were exaggerating doesn't change the fact you made those comments and your opinion. So actually, YES you were being judgemental, whether you admit to it or not. It's there in black and white, Stan.
> ....
Click to expand...

It's all in black, white and red Ruby. I'm not being judgemental, I qualified my statements.



Are you still mad at me for making that "ranting Scots" post way back when...?  



Tina said:


> Hi Stan.
> 
> Ha!! You have no idea.
> ...


I don't doubt what you say Tina, not in the least. I do believe that Dims is one of the best moderated web board around bar none, without sacrificing diversity and interesting conversation and that takes a lot of work and planning. If an experiment was attempted to see if a "FA SIG" board of some type was worth the effort, and it turns out to be seldom frequented as everybody seems to think it will... How much work would it be to moderate?



Observer said:


> Stan -
> 
> To answer your specific question to myself, I know virtually nothing about the rep system or cans because I'm not into the can and rep acquisition game that some seem to enjoy. Those that I have garnered were honestly earned because some seem to find my Hyde Park posts of some value and others liked my library contributions.
> 
> As for a private FA forum, I support the concept but wonder about the participation level. I personally think that some FA's could stand to be encouraged to come out of the closet; others need to be mentored on their social graces towards women; still others need help in dealing with the weight issues of their SO.
> 
> If enough community members were willing to seek such help in a private FA forum I'd certainly participate. But how many really desire such a venue is questionable. Certainly the desire for an SSBBW forum manifested itself very obviously.






Observer said:


> Stan -
> 
> To answer your specific question to myself, I know virtually nothing about the rep system or cans because I'm not into the can and rep acquisition game that some seem to enjoy. Those that I have garnered were honestly earned because some seem to find my Hyde Park posts of some value and others liked my library contributions.



"Observer makes people happy simply by logging in"

The powers that be seem to like you Observer. Honestly earned recognition is a good thing... isn't it?


----------



## stan_der_man

Sandie S-R said:


> It's not about numbers per se...it's just that the women got very pro-active.
> 
> Again, Stan...here's is what it takes. Someone, anyone step up to the plate. Take on the helm as the organizer. Get all the names of the men who want to participate. Be sure they are all on board. Type up what the board parameters will be and the names of the men that want to be involved, and PM or e-mail the information to Conrad, in a succinct fashion and request a response from him.
> 
> Have you done all those things?? Because the women did. And, this SS women's forum has been worked on for months - we have had a massive ongoing debate and convo about it in the moderator's forum. And we just today finally worked out the final bugs on it (I think). So trust me, this was far from being quick or easy. In fact it was quite a nightmare for a while.



Thanks Sandie. Simply knowing that there is a "formal" process of going about this is a major step further than all of us were before this thread started, the male FAs anyway...



LillyBBBW said:


> Those issues are not comparable. The most interest I've seen generated in such a forum has been 5 people. Interest has been tepid in comparison. Besides that it has been done before many times and proved unfruitful. Stan I'm so sorry that you feel this way but really, the needs of the FA community are not comparable. I would stand firmly behind any effort placed into doing things that truly target the unique and tangible concerns voiced by the majority of FA's here, not just pointless copy cat productions to satisfy conspiracy suspicions. The interest just hasn't been strong thus far.


The "conspiracy suspicions" I throw around sometimes seem to be the only way to pry any sort of real information out of people around here. The distance that this thread has come is a good example. Also the statement you wrote which I underlined elequently speaks for how the women here (and in NAAFA) feel about the FAs... At least that is how it looks from the male FA perspective. I was under the impression that Dimensions (the former FA SIG out of NAAFA) was about FAs and fat acceptance. My mistake. I'm not underestimating the needs of the large sized women, truely Lilly I'm not. But do you realize how that statement comes across to the male FAs? Again, we are the stepchildren in a place that is supposed to be for us. If the large women here at Dimensions don't find the support they need or desire, they can always turn to NAAFA. The FAs can't.

Again, maybe I'm naive, but I'm still interested in trying to make some sort of male FA group work, the next couple of weeks (and next weekend  ) are going to be busy. If any other male FAs are also interested in doing something like this please PM me. I completely agree with you Lilly, doing another half-ass FA group thing is pointless.


----------



## ripley

I can't speak for Conrad (and wouldn't want to!) but I think Dimensions has evolved a lot since the early days.




And again, I ask you what makes you think that FAs are treated so badly here, Stan?  Feel free to ignore me again. ; )


----------



## Ample Pie

I'm reminded of a scene in the movie The Associate. It's between Whoopi Goldberg and Dianne Wiest. They're talking about Whoopi's position in a male dominated career/company. Dianne Wiest's character says "...and Affirmative Action didn't help me" to which Whoopi's character says "It wasn't supposed to."

I don't want to start a whole debate about Affirmative Action (I'll leave that to Hyde Park), but that's sort of how I feel about this discussion. FAs do matter and I think most people realize that you, Stan, are one of the good guys so that isn't even an issue. The point is whether FAs are awesome or not or whether you deserve a space of your own or not isn't really the issue--and neither of those two things preclude the fact that the SSBBWs wanted and asked for and worked damn harder than you even can know for a space away from prying eyes.

In fact you FAs already get your safe spot here, for the most part. You can come to Dimensions and be safe in your love of fat women and fat bodies, etc. Come in, love it, enjoy it, revel in it, and not have society treat you like freaks. Ta-da, your safe place. Isn't that how it all started anyway...as a magazine for men who love chubby, fat, curvy (etc) Women? Can't we also have a place here where we're free to be _those_ women, where we can talk with each other and let our hair down and make ourselves ready to be a part of the greater Dimensions community?

And I realize that not all FAs are hopeless horndogs leching on every move, but...and I don't need anyone in particular to decide this for me, just as I don't need anyone else to decide for me that the sky is blue...a great many of them are. Posters and lurkers alike. And while that's fine and the attention is sometimes quite nice and the approval is appreciated, it can sometimes be too damned much. No one likes to be on stage all the time and sometimes, Stan, sometimes we just want to talk about our bunions (or whatever) in private.

So...and I don't know that this will make things better...just think of that particular forum not as an exclusive club and more like the SSBBW locker-room. We're not in there having FA-bashing parties or plotting the downfall of Dimensions; we're washing our hair and talking about tampons. Hypothetically.


----------



## mossystate

ripley said:


> I can't speak for Conrad (and wouldn't want to!) but I think Dimensions has evolved a lot since the early days.



this is a fabulous point..things do evolve..or should, if the ultimate goal is one of inclusion and not only a '____ only ' lounge/club....bottom line is, we are here and we contribute..greatly.....all


----------



## Jack Skellington

You know I just don't get why some guys would feel slighted because there's private forum for ssbbws to discuss health and hygiene related issues. Nice FAs should obviously realize that there are guys that get off on that sort of thing and women should a have private place discuss those issues without the worry about some guy getting their jollies.


----------



## Ruby Ripples

I honestly haven't the foggiest idea what you are talking about when you say "ranting scots", though clearly you do. However, you are determined not to respond to what doesn't suit you in this thread, but instead try to deviate onto other things, and Im not interested in playing like that, thanks.


----------



## stan_der_man

Ruby Ripples said:


> I honestly haven't the foggiest idea what you are talking about when you say "ranting scots", though clearly you do. However, you are determined not to respond to what doesn't suit you in this thread, but instead try to deviate onto other things, and Im not interested in playing like that, thanks.



I may not be the smartest guy, but I have a pretty good memory... You sent me a terse PM after this post. Maybe I had it coming... The difficult thing about having a good debate with you Ruby is that your responses aren't based on any discernable logic that I can think of... and then you start to rant.







All rightee then... (uh... guys, just keep silent otherwise you are going to get a flogging like I'm receiving at the moment...)


Here is another little conspiracy for ya'll.


Once upon a time there was this FA who wanted to get a tattoo. He was a member of this community which he believed supported his preference in large sized women. One day the opportunity arose where he could appear on television to get a tattoo and show his support for this community and size acceptance. He knew he'd have to ask the owner of this community for permission to mention this community on TV so he asked. The FA received no response... nada... zilch... jackshit. So when it came time to go onto this television show the producers again tried to contact the owner of this community. As before, they received no reply. The FA was not permitted to mention this community on television. He was able to promote another fat acceptance organization, which didn't particularly give a rat's ass about his kind anyway. A few weeks later the owner of this FAs community wrote him a letter, a very nice cordial friendly letter. The owner informed the FA that he didn't approve of tattoos and refused to have his community associated with this sort of activity. The FA thanked the owner for his belated acknowledgement, and chalked up the situation as another one of life's lessions.

I know... This is yet another tale of intrigue from some little annoying FA troublemaker who is making it inconvient to conduct the important business of Dimensions. You big beautiful ladies have more important things to do, like discuss hygene issues... or which stores have the cutest super-sized toilet seat covers.


For those of you who think I'm just some old married chauvinistic FA who doesn't understand this community, doesn't empathize with the women on these boards and only thinks about his penis and the penises of other FAs and just rants and is full of shit...

Fuck You.


The next time you ladies complain that there aren't any "good" intelligent men (FAs) around that appreciate or understand your situation, who are worthy of your affections... do a little soul searching. Maybe you are part of the problem.


----------



## SocialbFly

Stan, i am sorry you feel so strongly about this, i DO feel you support dimensions and the FA community, but in many ways, you are a small fish in a big pond. I love dimensions too, but i am acutely aware of some of the issues regarding the relationship between FAs and BBWs...some are healthy, some are not...the room being private has more to do with secret womens business than to discuss men...although i will say that i have voiced how hard it is to date people that are not fas who understand walking, distance etc when you are a ssbbw..but then, some supposed FAs dont understand that either...

so my question remains, if you had to put it in a sentence...what is it that upsets you the most about having a private room for ssbbws only? do you feel excluded, do you feel unwanted...how you should feel (I think), is that we are allowed to discuss some private issues as well...is that why you feel the need for the room for FAs, to help some of the FAs "come up" right so to speak...

Stan, not everyone is as wonderful as you have been...i have talked with you before and yes you get it...but Stan, so many dont...i posted a thread on the sexuality board, kinda tongue in cheek, but mostly serious, that the men should respond in kind of what they ask the women continuously to do...you know what, i think there are maybe 4...yes FOUR sets of pics...that is a great representation of the mutual respect, at least in my mind...you want us to post pics, then reciprocate in kind...that is life...

there are so many men who come here as represented by the numbers, who never make their presence known, and you cant tell me it is because the big bad BBWs or SSBBWs scared them, or that they are afraid because they are new and therefore shy, there are other reasons as well we all know them it is like the elephant in the room...

lets just be honest and try to keep the hurt feelings out of it...discussions are one thing but when all the personal issues come into it, it is like a train wreck, everyone looks, but so few help....

Hugs Stan...keep the FAith. (purposeful typing, wasn't I clever?)

(and yes, i am prolly part of the problem, but i am also trying to be part of the solution!)


----------



## LoveBHMS

In the interest of full disclosure I'll first say I'm not a SSBBW, don't have access to the forum in question, and can't related to whatever they talk about. I would have nothing to contribute to such a forum.

I do read the Weight Board because I have done (and enjoyed) some of the activities which are discussed there. It continues to annoy me every damned time somebody mentions the "Extreme Feeder" post. The Weight Board's *express and stated purpose* is discussion of feederism and other weight gain/fantasy issues surrounding size and feeding. Some honest person used the board for its purpose and yet dozens of people have felt totally justified in reading a board about a sexual fetish they don't have and commenting on it. Candidly Stan, *by doing that, you prove the very need for some people to have their privacy.* I don't see that Weight Board needs to be private, but when people who don't enjoy or participate in fetish stuff feel free to read and comment, it sucks.

As far as your tattoo, *you* chose to get it. You wanted it. Personally, it's not something I would feel a need to do. I like fat guys but I'm pretty skeptical that the majority of the world gives a flying fuck about it. I don't need to join NAAFA or ink it on my arm or take out a full page newspaper ad. And even if I did do those things it would be my personal choice and I wouldn't run around expecting a Congressional Medal of Honor for doing so. 

I honestly belive that being an FA is as difficult as you chose to make it. I think some men want to wear it like a badge of honor because they're brave enough to *gasp* be adults who follow their own sexual orientation. Will you get ribbed or teased? Yeah, probably. But like with anything else, people take cues from you, and if your attitude is "Yeah, this is just what I like. End of discussion" most people will shrug it off and not be wrapped up in somebody else's sex life.

But back to this thread. This?



> You big beautiful ladies have more important things to do, like discuss hygene issues... or which stores have the cutest super-sized toilet seat covers.



You need to apologize for. It's uncalled for and dismissive and rude. How dare you denigrate other people's very serious personal issues? Obviously, these women do have personal lifestyle challenges that they want to talk about without somebody reading about them. EVERY SINGLE TIME I read about a guy whineassing about how tough it is to be an FA, I want to laugh. As if you can say with a straight face "Oh sure, hygiene issues and health and mobility problems and not fitting into airline seats and having rocks thrown at you when you were in high school and being shunned by society all do suck...but being an FA is no spring picnic either."

You don't have to live in these women's bodies and they do. 

As far as these women being "part of the problem", sure. There are some women here, if I were a man, i would not date them. There are plenty of women here with whom I would not socialize or even chat with. It does bother me when some men come here looking for support and they get ganged up on. But try to be part of the solution.

Edited to add: Apparently SocialBlfy and i were typing at the same time. My suggestion to be part of the solution was not repeating what she said, i'd written the same thing independently.


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## SocialbFly

"As far as these women being "part of the problem", sure. There are some women here, if I were a man, i would not date them. There are plenty of women here with whom I would not socialize or even chat with. It does bother me when some men come here looking for support and they get ganged up on. But try to be part of the solution."

thats called life, just cause i am fat, doesnt mean every FA is gonna like me...far from it...everyone has preferences...just because a guy likes fat women does not mean i am going to find him attractive too, unfortunately...there are so many issues at play here, but that is what makes it a forum and that is what makes it interesting..you don't have to agree, but damnit, you should have to be respectful.


----------



## Ruby Ripples

fa_man_stan said:


> I may not be the smartest guy, but I have a pretty good memory... You sent me a terse PM after this post. Maybe I had it coming... The difficult thing about having a good debate with you Ruby is that your responses aren't based on any discernable logic that I can think of... and then you start to rant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All rightee then... (uh... guys, just keep silent otherwise you are going to get a flogging like I'm receiving at the moment...)
> 
> 
> Here is another little conspiracy for ya'll.
> 
> 
> Once upon a time there was this FA who wanted to get a tattoo. He was a member of this community which he believed supported his preference in large sized women. One day the opportunity arose where he could appear on television to get a tattoo and show his support for this community and size acceptance. He knew he'd have to ask the owner of this community for permission to mention this community on TV so he asked. The FA received no response... nada... zilch... jackshit. So when it came time to go onto this television show the producers again tried to contact the owner of this community. As before, they received no reply. The FA was not permitted to mention this community on television. He was able to promote another fat acceptance organization, which didn't particularly give a rat's ass about his kind anyway. A few weeks later the owner of this FAs community wrote him a letter, a very nice cordial friendly letter. The owner informed the FA that he didn't approve of tattoos and refused to have his community associated with this sort of activity. The FA thanked the owner for his belated acknowledgement, and chalked up the situation as another one of life's lessions.
> 
> I know... This is yet another tale of intrigue from some little annoying FA troublemaker who is making it inconvient to conduct the important business of Dimensions. You big beautiful ladies have more important things to do, like discuss hygene issues... or which stores have the cutest super-sized toilet seat covers.
> 
> 
> For those of you who think I'm just some old married chauvinistic FA who doesn't understand this community, doesn't empathize with the women on these boards and only thinks about his penis and the penises of other FAs and just rants and is full of shit...
> 
> Fuck You.
> 
> 
> The next time you ladies complain that there aren't any "good" intelligent men (FAs) around that appreciate or understand your situation, who are worthy of your affections... do a little soul searching. Maybe you are part of the problem.



My responses were in direct reply to yours, completely on topic, it was yours that now thrice have tried to deviate from the matter at hand, this time by getting personal and insulting me. 

The rest of your post clearly shows who is ranting.


----------



## LoveBHMS

SocialbFly said:


> "As far as these women being "part of the problem", sure. There are some women here, if I were a man, i would not date them. There are plenty of women here with whom I would not socialize or even chat with. It does bother me when some men come here looking for support and they get ganged up on. But try to be part of the solution."
> 
> thats called life, just cause i am fat, doesnt mean every FA is gonna like me...far from it...everyone has preferences...just because a guy likes fat women does not mean i am going to find him attractive too, unfortunately...there are so many issues at play here, but that is what makes it a forum and that is what makes it interesting..you don't have to agree, but damnit, you should have to be respectful.



That was pretty much my point. Of course some behaviour and personalities on here are off putting, but it does not mean *all* women are a certain way or that a global/macro *it's your fault how men behave* is appropriate.


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## LillyBBBW

fa_man_stan said:


> Also the statement you wrote which I underlined elequently speaks for how the women here (and in NAAFA) feel about the FAs... At least that is how it looks from the male FA perspective. I was under the impression that Dimensions (the former FA SIG out of NAAFA) was about FAs and fat acceptance. My mistake. I'm not underestimating the needs of the large sized women, truely Lilly I'm not. But do you realize how that statement comes across to the male FAs? Again, we are the stepchildren in a place that is supposed to be for us. If the large women here at Dimensions don't find the support they need or desire, they can always turn to NAAFA. The FAs can't.



Unfortunately there was no other way for me to word that statement at the time. Discontent puts you in a place to receive that statment as you did which is unfortunate. The comparative value I was referring to was apples and oranges. Being an FA does not require special needs in the real world. Being an FA does not cause difficutly getting on top of the exam table at your doctors office, you can slip right into the phlebotomists chair and have blood drawn, you can aim and piss in a cup without any issues with reach or proper form, if you suddenly have to go to the bathroom you can sprint lithly down the hallway and grab the first empty urinal you see with a signifigantly diminished chance for incident or accident, it doesn't take a team of people or special equipment in a 30 minute routine appointment. Being an FA imposes no special physical circumstances, limitations or pain on you that requires ingenuity or research on your part. There is very little research being done on behalf of weight specific care for SSBBW, at least not with a straight face. There are even moves to try to legislate us! This is not meant to be dismissive but more a bald eyed look at the issues. The angst of an FA is surely real but you will not die from it nor does it inflict physical pain or draw stares and assumptions from strangers on sight. The SSBBW enjoys the luxury of all of this and much of it is gender specific.

NAAFA is a political organization. They don't give medical advice or offer moral support, the main function of NAAFA is activism. People have used NAAFA conventions and gatherings as a means to distribute services they provide that may be of help to people of size but that is not NAAFA's function.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I hope you are able to get things off the ground as far as getting your own group. At this point you're a one man gang Stan. You could use some momentum.


----------



## SocialbFly

LoveBHMS said:


> That was pretty much my point. Of course some behaviour and personalities on here are off putting, but it does not mean *all* women are a certain way or that a global/macro *it's your fault how men behave* is appropriate.



I agree. Thank you for clarifying for me.


----------



## LillyBBBW

BothGunsBlazing said:


> It'd be interesting to see a poll thread for the FA only forum.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure what would come out of the FA only forum .. I'd probably just end up getting pissed off more often.



I think a poll thread is a great idea.


----------



## TraciJo67

(((((((((((( Stan )))))))))

You are one of the good guys. I know it. I've seen you 'round these parts for several years, and I've yet to see you sling mud at anyone. Overall, you're a kind and gracious man. Obviously, you're upset about the underlying reason that SSBBW's get their own forum. I do understand the need for a private forum, so I disagree with much of what you're saying. But I can empathize with the frustration that you are expressing, and the underlying reasons that you have.

The issues that FA's have isn't a "versus" or comparison thing to those facing BBW/SSBBW's. They are completely separate, and should be respected as such. I don't see where it is helpful to tell FA's who express their concerns to "buck up" or to "stop whining" or to try living in a super-sized body for a while. Apples & oranges (and pears ... oh my ). There is room for empathy and understanding for all of us. Just my $.85.


----------



## saucywench

Stan (forgive me if Im being overly presumptuous here) 

You know, I really like you and I enjoy and appreciate the contributions you have made here as a member; I consider you a valuable and integral part of this community. However, after reading through this threads posts of the last 48 hours or so (and weird that it was revived with a porn-seeking post) I am left with the sense that, ultimately, the angst and frustration that you are feeling so acutely is not so much Dimensions-related but is more personal in nature. I am in no way discounting or trivializing whatever genuine concerns you may have regarding these forums or any parts of themI just have a feeling that the emotions that are fueling these posts may be being misdirected; the intensity just seems out of proportion to what many seem to feel are the facts at hand.

I am glad that you are getting away for a few days this week. I truly wish I were going, too--I even looked into airfare for the trip this past week, but circumstances simply wont allow it. I hope that you all have a wonderful time, and I know that you will, justmaybe you can find some solitary time to get away, take a hike alone, and find a lovely spot in the park that soothes youto sit and contemplate things. I think, if you are able to do that, and work some things out within yourself, you might return to the boards with a different (and refreshed) perspective.


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## Ernest Nagel

fa_man_stan said:


> For those of you who think I'm just some old married chauvinistic FA who doesn't understand this community, doesn't empathize with the women on these boards and only thinks about his penis and the penises of other FAs and just rants and is full of shit...
> 
> Fuck You.
> 
> 
> The next time you ladies complain that there aren't any "good" intelligent men (FAs) around that appreciate or understand your situation, who are worthy of your affections... do a little soul searching. Maybe you are part of the problem.



Stan, 

I just wanted to publicly thank and acknowledge you for how much your presence here has meant to me. Your kind words and gentle wisdom have reassured me both publicly and privately that there is something worthwhile here. :bow: Granted it is not always the most compassionate or even tolerant place for FA's but it could be worse. I try to think of Dims like a giant sieve or maybe better, a gold pan for true FA's. 

Getting our teeth kicked to the curb from time to time may just be part of the screening process? Trolls come and go but over time those who stay seem to raise the general level of FA consciousness here. If it is our lot to live in the shadows of groping, creepy, fetishists who have appetites but no true admiration for BBW then perhaps what there is to do is build a campfire in that shadow? People will find their way to its light or not. Let me know what you see? How do we build something more supportive and inclusive for FA's here?

BTW, what happened to your smiling Avatar and what is the little question mark by your rep cans?

Your friend,
Scott

PS, I support the SSBBW's privacy but I have also been in relationship with SSBBW most of my adult life. There are things I would be happy to share privately re the issues and ordeals of an SSA without being a member of that Forum. Just an offer.


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## exile in thighville

LillyBBBW said:


> I think it's one thing if you're saying "insert sprocket A into joint B" and then saying "I have to bathe with a garden hose." These are personal embarassing things. The folks who run the Library have no issue with someone wanking to general information but you can't go to their house to smell their underwear and listen in on the phone.





LoveBHMS said:


> Six.
> 
> I can fully understand being curious. It's human nature plain and simple when you're told "there is some OTHER STUFF going on but it's PRIVATE." OTOH, as Too said it's there for a reason and at the discretion of a moderator.





Tooz said:


> No offense to you, Dan, but this is coming from a skinny dude. These women had their reasons to do what was done, and I don't think it's changing any time soon.




Uhhh...guys. Just because I was planning on feverishly masturbating to a new board of garden hosers doesn't mean this is about me. My concerns on weight requirements I thought would be fairly obvious, but I guess I'll clarify...will one monitor this? What if someone is elligible and then loses the weight? What if someone gains later on? Are people going to need to photograph themselves on a scale and send it to the mods as proof? The upkeep of the whole thing seems incredibly silly to me, and considering the amount of material on Dims on the health board and other places that we know _somewhere, someone_ is beating off to, I'm just surprised buffering for these kind of distinctions is now taking place.

I wish I could make a case that a good shot of realism might help scare off some the dumber feeder pupae of these parts or that they could learn something mature about the limitations of fantasy, but I think we all know that's a joke.

I'm ever so hopeless to comprehend....it must be my crippling skinny-dudeness.


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## Green Eyed Fairy

TraciJo67 said:


> (((((((((((( Stan )))))))))
> 
> You are one of the good guys. I know it. I've seen you 'round these parts for several years, and I've yet to see you sling mud at anyone. Overall, you're a kind and gracious man.



I have to step up and agree with TraciJo on this one- Stan IS one of the good guys, IMHO. One of my fave posters, to be honest. It upsets me to see him this upset. 



TraciJo67 said:


> Obviously, you're upset about the underlying reason that SSBBW's get their own forum.
> I do understand the need for a private forum, so I disagree with much of what you're saying. But I can empathize with the frustration that you are expressing, and the underlying reasons that you have.
> 
> The issues that FA's have isn't a "versus" or comparison thing to those facing BBW/SSBBW's. They are completely separate, and should be respected as such. I don't see where it is helpful to tell FA's who express their concerns to "buck up" or to "stop whining" or to try living in a super-sized body for a while. Apples & oranges (and pears ... oh my ). There is room for empathy and understanding for all of us. Just my $.85.



I have to also take this time to point out....it's not just FAs "being excluded". I'm under 300 lbs. I can't go either, Stan. I do understand what it is to live life as a fat woman and have "issues" with hygiene and other matters, too. 
I have seen other "mid-sizers" like myself say on these boards how they often feel 'left out' or excluded at other times- not just by a private forum.
I certainly wouldn't mock them, put them down or wank to them. However, it is my tough shit. They have expressed a need to have their own place for personal issues. They feel better about it only being people like themselves. That's cool. After reading some of their posts about how they feel about the situation, I want to say sorry and graciously step off. I should not have been so pissy in my initial reaction (though I didn't post, I did agree to an extent).

I understand your upset, Stan, I really do. But they NEED it Stan....and this place gave it to them. I think that, overall, it's a good thing.


----------



## LillyBBBW

exile in thighville said:


> Uhhh...guys. Just because I was planning on feverishly masturbating to a new board of garden hosers doesn't mean this is about me. My concerns on weight requirements I thought would be fairly obvious, but I guess I'll clarify...will one monitor this? What if someone is elligible and then loses the weight? What if someone gains later on? Are people going to need to photograph themselves on a scale and send it to the mods as proof? The upkeep of the whole thing seems incredibly silly to me, and considering the amount of material on Dims on the health board and other places that we know _somewhere, someone_ is beating off to, I'm just surprised buffering for these kind of distinctions is now taking place.
> 
> I wish I could make a case that a good shot of realism might help scare off some the dumber feeder pupae of these parts or that they could learn something mature about the limitations of fantasy, but I think we all know that's a joke.
> 
> I'm ever so hopeless to comprehend....it must be my crippling skinny-dudeness.



I pretty much understand that but I'm not going to lift my skirt and spread my legs so the pups here can learn about fat genitalia. It's not my responsibility and I resent being made to feel as though it is. Let them buy a book. Either that or you go first.


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## exile in thighville

LillyBBBW said:


> I pretty much understand that but I'm not going to lift my skirt and spread my legs so the pups here can learn about fat genitalia. It's not my responsibility and I resent being made to feel as though it is. Let them buy a book. Either that or you go first.



No, you're right, it's not your responsibility, I was just raising concerns. I wasn't actually aware it was going to focus so intently on this gyno stuff
until now so it makes a little more sense.


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## LoveBHMS

> wish I could make a case that a good shot of realism might help scare off some the dumber feeder pupae of these parts or that they could learn something mature about the limitations of fantasy, but I think we all know that's a joke.



I have to somewhat disagree with this. (And you know you're one of my favorite posters and we are sympatico on a lot of stuff..)

If somebody has a strong fantasy or fetish-y leaning, I don't think they can be 'scared straight' out of having it. Some people think and practice the freaky stuff in safe, sane, consensual manners. Some either don't or can't. As you've posted elsewhere, it's just in the DNA and nobody who has it can explain it or probably _wants to_ explain it. Some people's heads just go to very extreme and very dark places. There are people who like spanking and handcuffs, and those for whom nothing short of having a dungeon full of slaves is going to satisfy them. There are men who love Hustler's "Barely Legal" and men who are straight up pedophiles. There are feeders who enjoy stuffing fried cheesecake into somebody's mouth (yes..fried cheesecake is REAL) and pinching several inches on a partner's body and also feeders for whom only an immobile filth covered partner will do. In none of these examples are the very dark types going to be jarred out of it by being reminded that somebody could get HURT.

I think it's also unfair to expect these women to essentially put their troubles on display because it might help somebody else.


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## Jack Skellington

fa_man_stan said:


> The next time you ladies complain that there aren't any "good" intelligent men (FAs) around that appreciate or understand your situation, who are worthy of your affections... do a little soul searching. Maybe you are part of the problem.



I'm just going to ignore your rants. Every good person has their bad days. 

Now, why you would think ssbbws having a private hygiene forum is a slight is honestly beyond me. I'd personally also be all for a private hygiene forum for female dim posters in general. If BHM want a private forum to discuss their hygiene, heck, I'd be all for that too. I'd support all their needs for privacy and not feel in any way slighted. 

Your missed placed anger on this really makes no sense.


----------



## Angel

This post isn't directed at anyone in particular, so please do not feel that it is. 

After having read the turn this thread has taken, I am greatly saddened. It is very apparent that there have been hurt feelings on various levels. It has also confirmed something I personally have felt since finding and discovering the world of Dimensions.

Most of you don't know me or know anything about me because I have chosen to keep my personal life just that, personal. I have lived my life as a supersized child, then a supersized teenager, then briefly as a supersized woman, but most of my adult life (and since the age of 23) I have been what has been referred to as an ultrasized SSBBW. I'm almost 45 now, and during my entire lifetime I have only met one person larger than myself. I didn't find Dimensions until I was 38 years old. I had to find my own way through life as a supersized woman. I can tell you that real life isn't always as friendly or as accepting to the supersized as what you find here at Dimensions. In truth, it is quite the opposite. There are struggles and barriers faced on a daily basis that no one could possibly understand unless they have lived life being a supersized woman or unless they have lived with a SSBBW and been intimately involved with her for a length of time. I didn't have anyone to discuss anything with. Not a single soul. You have absolutley no idea of how alone that can make a SSBBW feel. Thankfully I survived through some very trying times. What most people don't understand is that we don't even have a medical community that we can turn to much less one that even remotely understands our unique and individual needs. Most of us don't have family that understand our needs either. So as individulas alone in the world, we try to quietly and sometimes with great shame find what works best for us. 

Now we have a some what accepting community here at Dimensions. Shouldn't long time SSBBW be permitted to help each other out, offer advice, explain what works for them, or mentor or try to helpfully guide those who are just beginning to face the physical difficulties of becoming a SSBBW in a private setting? I don't see anything wrong with calling it private. Private just means for issues of an intimate or private nature which most humans wouldn't feel comfortable discussing openly in mixed company anyway regardless of their size. Does every aspect of our lives need to be on display just because we may be admired by a select few? Do any of you really feel a need to pry into our intimate or personal issues? Would that information be of any value to those who are nothing but curious? 

I can tell you how I feel. I don't wish to be treated or viewed as a circus oddity. I don't wish to be laughed at, ridiculed, gasped at or made to feel even more ashamed because of the difficulties I face as an ultra sized SSBBW. I also do not want to be used as learning tool for gawkers or for the curious. I also do not want to in any way be masturbatory material for discussing what may personally cause me emotional or physical pain, embarrassment, or humiliation. And yes, I have been asked by countless men from this community to share every detail of every personal issue you can imagine. And they only ask for those types of details for one reason, and it is NOT because they care about me or are concerned about me. 

Not everyone has honorable intentions. To the nice truly caring admirers, it would make your skin crawl if you knew how some who profess to be fat admirers conduct themselves even while here at Dimensions. 

I understand that being a FA may at times make you feel awkward, or even ashamed, or even alone. We all, regardless of orientation experience similar feelings at one time or another. Being an FA does not affect your physical body in a negative way. Being an FA does not affect your physical limitations or mobility. Being an FA does not make you stand out in a crowd, or make you the subject of insults or marginalization because of your physical appearance or physical limitations. Fat admirers can easily blend into society and do not require any special needs on a daily basis. Fat admirers can even hide their identity or orientation. SSBBW can't. Everyone can see that we are 'different'. In our society what makes us 'different' is not seen as a positive factor. 

We have no place else to go to for information or for resources that could make our daily lives a bit more easier. In the super size forum we can share information with each other without being made spectacles and without being made to feel embarrassed even more than we may already be. 

I'm sorry, guys. Dimensions isn't just about pics or about meeting your needs or satisfying your fantasies. It's now also about the women whose bodies you profess to admire. It's also about those women's lives and needs. It's also about women helping women feel more comfortable living in the body they reside in. If you can't understand that we have needs that are greatly different from yours, then how can you truly admire us as a complete person? We are so much more than the physical bodies you lust after. We have needs that just cannot be met anyplace else. 

Most of us SSBBW love fat admirers and are greatful for those who treat us nice. There are some men, though, who love or lust after our bodies, sometimes even secretly, but have absolutely no comprehension of what life as a SSBBW or ultra SSBBW is like. We understand that some don't even care as long as they feel sexually gratified. We also understand, and know, that there are those who get off on hearing of our difficulties and limitations. Don't we deserve a little bit of privacy? Just because a man lusts after our fat body should he be entitled to read everything we post? I think not. 

Thank you to those admirers and allies who have been understanding and supportive.


----------



## AnnMarie

I wasn't going to tread in here, but here I am - 

Stan's general argument of FA treatment and perception here - to me - is dead on. I have waved my FA flag over and over, but there are women here (just going to say it) who completely resent FAs (the good, well-meaning, normal ones I'm referring to) because they hate their bodies and always will. There are women here who resent FAs for personal experience with complete assholes who hijacked the FA term in order to do damage in one way or another. There are women here who no matter how they feel about their bodies, good/bad/indifferent will never, ever want a man who is interested in their outer body, so they resent FAs for their interest that rises from a physical attraction. 

And to be clear, I don't believe that those good FAs and the interests that some women here find so threatening are always mutually exclusive. Often they are, but having some different random thoughts about things related to/or outcroppings of excessive weight doesn't not automatically make you an evil, disgusting monster. 

There is a hostile element here and there has been for a good amount of the past year. The more we grow, the more misunderstood the BASIC FA is, he gets mashed in a tangle of fringe interests and bad board behavior, and the man who just prefers a large life-partner is just completely lost under the mess. 

I've (and quite a few others here) typed till my fingers are dead about the wonders of great, real FAs, the positive effect they've had on me and my life - and I don't know how else to get the point across. I realize much of it is about personal experience, I just wish more were truly open to it. 

I feel Stan's frustration at certain things, but equating that frustration to the SS board is misplaced - they're birds of a different feather. A board for just FAs will not solve the perception issues of many women here, nor solve some of the hostility he's saying he feels/reads. I'm not saying it would serve no purpose, but it would not address the things I hear as the biggest complaint coming from Stan. 

Well, that's all I have. I think Stan is a great guy, he's smart, dedicated, and clearly very upset directly by the things he's feeling. Passion can't be all bad, I just think some issues are clouded in relation to each other - when in fact they're more free-standing topics that need to be addressed and discussed differently.


----------



## NancyGirl74

Think there are two valid sides to the argument going on here. One: A need for a private space for SSBBWs to discuss private often embarrassing issues among their peers. Two: FAs are feeling that this private space is preventing them from being supportive of the women they admire. 

Guys, that is not the case at all and I'm very sorry if ANY FAs feel that way. It comes down to privacy. The ladies need a place to talk about things we would not feel comfortable discussing in front of people have not experienced similar things first hand. I'm not saying that FAs can't be supportive or even understanding...it's just that some things can't be and shouldn't be shared with the masses. Dims has many supportive members who are not BBWs themselves. They are great friends but when I want to discuss something deeply personal I would not choose to talk to them. Not because I feel they are uncaring but because I want to talk to someone who has walked a bit in my shoes. 

There has been debates within this group about what makes a SSBBW and who will be considered a "peer". It's not easy an easy thing to decide and although I have not always agreed with all the choices I am confident that those choices were made NOT to hurt anyone or leave anyone out. Instead, I know those choices were made to assure the privacy and welfair of women who are not ready to have their personal issues aired out in front of the world.

I respect and value any FA who wants to understand and support the SSBBW community...but I would ask for their respect in return by hoping they can understand that not all topics are easy for us to share with the men who admire us.


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## liz (di-va)

I've liked you for a long time on this boards too, Stan, and have been sympathetic --if you've even read it -- about some of what seems to be rationally driving your world of hurt here, but I'm sorry...if somebody tells me to fuck off and belittles the need for the SSBBW thread by talking about "_cutest super-sized toilet seat covers_" (I'm sorry, I can't believe you said that...I've had to calm down for a few hours before I can even respond)...I will tune out and stop caring. If that's really all you got out of this thread, then NO, you are really are talking about your own issues here.  You seem to be conflating a whole bunch of issues, draggin in things that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.

There are more people than you realize sympathetic to your POV and I hope you realize that when you chill. I also hope you can make your peace with the fact that there are dudes who just come here to wank. We all know this.

All I know is, if there are overarching FA issues you want addressed, this was the wrongest and most misplacedly hurtful place to demand attention. THere needs to be other threads for this. And either way you've lost my attention for the short term, I'm still too pissed at being told to fuck off in the middle of a thread that has nothing to do with your needs. I'm a little confused why that seems to be okay.


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## Tina

fa_man_stan said:


> I don't doubt what you say Tina, not in the least. I do believe that Dims is one of the best moderated web board around bar none, without sacrificing diversity and interesting conversation and that takes a lot of work and planning. If an experiment was attempted to see if a "FA SIG" board of some type was worth the effort, and it turns out to be seldom frequented as everybody seems to think it will... How much work would it be to moderate?


Not hard at all, Stan. All that is required is enough people to put a group together, with a bit of a plan, and a PM to Conrad, laying it out for him. I believe if Conrad sees a need, he will fill it -- and after all, Dimensions started as a SIG that Conrad splintered off from NAAFA, if I'm remembering correctly. It has grown to be much more, but his initial interest, as I recall, was for support and communication between FAs. I think it's a great idea, if there is enough need and desire for it. And I don't think it need be in the BHM section. I don't believe our fat brothers need to be sent to their corner. The SSBBW forum isn't a sub-section, so a BHM board needn't be, either, IMO.


AnnMarie said:


> I wasn't going to tread in here, but here I am -
> 
> Stan's general argument of FA treatment and perception here - to me - is dead on. I have waved my FA flag over and over, but there are women here (just going to say it) who completely resent FAs (the good, well-meaning, normal ones I'm referring to) because they hate their bodies and always will. There are women here who resent FAs for personal experience with complete assholes who hijacked the FA term in order to do damage in one way or another. There are women here who no matter how they feel about their bodies, good/bad/indifferent will never, ever want a man who is interested in their outer body, so they resent FAs for their interest that rises from a physical attraction.


AM, you and I have always been in agreement when it comes to singing the praises of FAs, and how it's really FAs that we've been interested in dating. Were I not in a relationship, it would take a _very_ special, sensitive kind of non-FA guy to catch my eye and keep it. I also agree with you about some who do not like, in fact hate, their fat bodies, and would not want a guy who lusted after them for their fat. From what I've gleaned, some would feel trapped by that, and others just don't want anyone objectifying them. Personally, I think we all (all of the sexes) objectify each other to one degree or another, and doesn't it take some extra work to try to find something attractive in a person if their physical being repulses us? Chemistry and attraction is everything in those first few minutes, but it is only in getting to know someone do we find whether we _really_ find them attractive or not. I believe there are very few people who can become truly attractive to someone who seems repulsive inside, but less attraction to the outer package can be overcome. However, it's always that initial little 'zing' that gets the blood flowing and dilates the pupils. So, personally, I WANT someone who is attracted to me physically. 


> And to be clear, I don't believe that those good FAs and the interests that some women here find so threatening are always mutually exclusive. Often they are, but having some different random thoughts about things related to/or outcroppings of excessive weight doesn't not automatically make you an evil, disgusting monster.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]


It sure doesn't, and would not paint that picture. But I've seen some pretty disgusting stuff, and could never be with a man who had fantasies of me dying in my own filth, or a number of other things I've seen that I personally find disgusting. No broad-brush painting of anyone should be done, and I've been careful not to do so, but I would be lying were I to say that all FAs are benevolent. It just ain't so.

Still, while I understand completely some of the complaints re: derision towards FAs by some women, I really am at a loss at understanding how having a board for SSBBW issues is a bad thing.


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## mossystate

Maybe the bottom line in all this is we need to know exactly what Dimensions stands for..and who it is for. I know most of us think we know, but, all this is telling us..we really don't..? I see the nice FA's out here get a TON of positive attention..a ton. I see some of them be very kind and understanding to the women out here. I see FA's who, right along with many of the women, ' go after ' the less wonderful of the proclaimed FA's. Again, who is Dimensions for. 

I see much of the anger as some people wanting to have things exactly their way, and nothing else will do. The outrage over the forming of the SuperSize board is a prime example.

I see some women bending over backwards to make sure they are not misunderstood on this topic. I see a few calm FA's who get it, and are not threatened. I know that still others will view this as a kiss ass move, but, nah, I know a genuine FA when I see one. There is a basic humanity that goes far beyond the label...it is about a decent _human being_ . Maybe there is a lot of that " maybe you are part of the problem " to go around? Dims is not a vacuum. We all bring to it what makes up our total as a person. What happens outside these walls affect how we understand our treatment within these walls.


Just as no fat woman should come out here thinking she will automatically be worshipped, or should be worshipped, no matter how she acts..no FA should think he is a God and should be given respect because he happens to like fat women. If you can't get past the sense of entitlement...you will not be a happy camper.

The SS board is not a slap in the face to anyone...and...if something can be figured out for FA's..or whatever group out here who want their own place...well, I would never demand that I be told how exactly it came about and what the process was...to do that would be me saying that the person who owns this place doesn't know what he is doing..and..minor irritations aside...ummm..I think he does know what he is doing.

*eta...sigh..the toilet seat cover comment..yeah...I was not going to address it directly..but...I have a bit of passion flowing right now as well, and, because of that, have to wonder how close to the surface that has been, and for how long....way to belittle all the women..and men...who have very real issues that do not come under the umbrella of admiration and rainbows...man, I am pissed


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## Chimpi

I am unsure of the precise nature of the "Fuck You" and the toilet seat comments, but I like to think that he did not gear either of those in the negative sense that most are saying. I think the "Fuck You" was directed at people that label or judge him wrongly (even though, to some people, the way you represent yourself in a post is all they have to judge you on), and I believe the toilet seat comment was made more tongue-in-cheek than anything. I believe him when he says he understands that the women of large size here need a space to talk about private issues. I also believe Stan to be an incredible guy - Very human, with very human feelings and thoughts.

I will say that I did Private Message some one at the start of this "450+ Pound SSBBW Forum" idea and questioned that person about the relevance of some people (like me) who would like to be able to attend on the strict viewpoint that we could just learn from these women and understand their situation better. I think it is obvious that I am not a 'Super Sized' woman, nor a woman at all. I also think that there is _always_ room for improvement and a greater knowledge of different things, one of which is the troubles that large people have in their everyday lives. However, after reading the past three pages of this thread this morning, I completely understand and respect the women when they say that should not and do not want to be seen as a learning tool. I never thought of it that way.

I am all for supporting whatever type of "Male Fat Admirer" forum Stan wants, because I do recognize his good intentions and his very real feelings as a human being. Where I whole-heartedly agree with Stan that the mental needs and problems/issues of male "Fat Admirers" is very real and requires attention and equal-based acknowledgment, I also understand and agree that very large sized woman should have a private place to talk about private issues. And, putting my personal human feelings and thoughts forward, I am actually a little more relieved knowing that there's mostly talk of things I don't actually want to read about ("gyno" visits) going on in there, rather than a place for 'Super Sized' women to talk about whatever they want (including gossip and the like).
I understand your frustration, Stan, when you see this line from Lilly:


LillyBBBW said:


> Stan I'm so sorry that you feel this way but really, the needs of the FA community are not comparable.


And feel some what belittled by that comment. I will say that it may not be incomparable, but just _different_. The physical problems large women face on a day-to-day basis are very important and should be talked about and hopefully helped and improved. I also think the mental agonies and problems male "Fat Admirers" face on a day-to-day basis and in an overall manner are very important and should be talked about and hopefully helped and improved. I recognize what you feel, Stan, and think Lilly just used the wrong word (or hope she just used the wrong word).

It's very obvious here that mental agony goes a long way. Stan is suffering from it and we have seen it come about in _many_ people here on this board. Some people find resolution within, some people find a much darker fate. It's unfortunate, but a reality of life.

I do feel it would be beneficial to talk about "a group of FAs...a club, SIG... something along those lines, with the basic premise being a male FA group that promotes fat acceptance and a positive image for FAs", but I do not think it should be private. I think it would be more beneficial for men to talk about such things and also have input from women as well. I'm all for universal acceptance, whether it's fat acceptance, size acceptance, or self acceptance. I have yet to see a good, private forum justified idea come about that would cater to men. I would like to see less negative posts come about in the Weight Board section when men bring up fantasy related posts, but that is not going to happen any time soon.

Otherwise, I've come across 95% resistance when trying to hand someone reputation in this thread, but would like to acknowledge some good discussion going on. Universally.


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## LoveBHMS

> I would like to see less negative posts come about in the Weight Board section when men bring up fantasy related posts, but that is not going to happen any time soon.



Yes, but it should happen for the simple reason that you should not be reading the Weight Board if you have negative feelings towards the issues towards which it is geared. It bothers me that the same people who harp on and on about respect will have no problem trolling the Weight Board and making commentary on stuff that is not directed at them. If the Weight Board disturbs you, don't fucking read it.

And while on the subject of respect and what this community is and is not about, it's also not ok to use the fact that you aren't into 'that stuff' as your good guy imprimatur. It amazes me how it's supposed to be some indication that you're a good FA if you're not into feederism or weight gain or any other size related kink, like "I'm an FA but i'm not into _that._"


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## Webmaster

How's this from way, way back when:

===========

"Over the last several months, there has been a great deal of discussion about the role of allies in the size acceptance movement. The topic has generated dialogues, debates, and arguments in forums ranging from casual conversations to electronic mail to the pages of publications such as Dimensions. It has caused bruised feelings and political controversies. But throughout the process, there has been little acknowledgement that the vast majority of the allies to the size acceptance movement possess a strong common denominator that makes their relationship to fat people unique and makes them different from allies to other movements.

Acknowledging that the majority of allies to the size acceptance movement are FAs changes the premise of such a discussion. While there may be different degrees of "FAness," with some people on one end of the continuum experiencing a mild preference for the larger figure, the experience of most of the FAs in the size acceptance movement is at the other end of the continuum. Theirs is not simply a sexual preference, but an orientation that defines not only their sexuality, but to a significant extent, their self-concept and their lifestyle. Having fat people in their lives contributes to FAs' sense of completeness and fulfillment. Recognizing this means understanding that the support of the majority of allies to the size acceptance movement is not based merely on an intellectual understanding of the issues or the wish to support a loved one; rather, their support of the movement is a reflection of their personal issues about their FAness just as a fat person's support of the movement is a reflection of their personal issues about their fatness. For this reason, FAs' allegiance to the size acceptance movement is very different from, say, a sighted person's support of the blind movement or a white person's support of the civil rights movement.

It's healthy for movements to do some introspection, and recognizing that FAs as a group have their own issues and needs is a good springboard from which to examine whether or not the size acceptance movement effectively serves the FA community, and if not, whether FAs need to create their own organizations and movement.

There are several arguments why the FA community is not well-served by the size acceptance movement. First, because the size acceptance movement was created to end size discrimination and to empower fat people, FAs are by definition a corollary to the movement, and their issues are relegated to the back burner. At NAAFA events, for example, there are many workshops and discussions about issues affecting fat people, and usually only one for FAs (which usually draws a higher attendance of fat people than FAs). 

Most of the publications in the size acceptance movement rarely acknowledge FAs or their issues. With the exception of Dimensions, which speaks to the range of FA experiences and serves as a bridge between the FA and fat communities, the most widely-read FA publications are almost exclusively sexual in nature. Ironically, these magazines are produced by non-FAs who generally don't understand FAs' sexuality.

Very little of the movement's efforts in public education are expended on behalf of FAs. There are currently no informational pamphlets for FAs nor on the topic of the sexual preference of FAs. FAs are rarely, if ever, mentioned in public speeches and other educational endeavors. While dispelling myths and stereotypes about fat people ranks high on the size acceptance agenda, there has been no concerted effort to reduce the social stigma against FAs. In the media, FAs are seen only in the context of their sexual preference, and then are mostly treated as sideshow oddities. In the last five years, only one newspaper article has legitimately discussed the FA orientation. Likewise, the movement's efforts in influencing research and public policy have virtually ignored the FA community.

While the size acceptance movement has not met the needs of the FA community, it does not follow that the movement should be castigated. While FAs' issues and needs are related to those of the fat population, they're separate, and a strong argument can be made that FAs should develop their own movement. 

In thinking about the elements of a hypothetical FA movement, the first step would be to define the central issues and needs of the FA community. Are the primary issues for FAs finding fat partners, or are the issues deeper than that? It seems that, although it is rarely acknowledged and discussed, FAs experience significant social stigma and discrimination, and as a result, can have a great deal of internalized oppression.

Although there is a dearth of theory and research about FAs, anecdotal evidence suggests that early on, FAs are given the distinct message that their preference isn't acceptable. As a result, many FAs' first explorations into their preference are accompanied by a mixture of excitement and shame. Over time, many FAs learn to separate their FAness from the rest of their lives, and either learn to deny that part of themselves or to isolate themselves. Due to social stigma and the denial of their preference, many FAs have relationships with and marry average size partners, relegating their preference to shame-filled fantasies. 

For those FAs who come out of the closet, the road is equally difficult, as they are often judged for their preference by their friends, families, and co-workers. They may find themselves or their partners shunned by their families, and they may experience a "glass ceiling" in a corporate world where executives are as judged by their choice in spouses as they are by their abilities. 

Even for FAs who find and embrace the size acceptance movement, there is no guarantee that they will escape stigma and internalized oppression. Ostensibly, the movement is the one place in our society where FAs can be who they are, unselfconscious and free from ridicule for their preference. Yet FAs often find that they cannot express the full range of their experience without exposing themselves to disparagement for many of the very qualities that make them FAs. Ironically, it often seems that fat people can't truly accept FAs' admiration of their physical attributes and size; rather, the essence of FAness is something many fat people would rather minimize. As a result, FAs often walk a tightrope in expressing an "acceptable" level of FAness, trying to strike a balance between avoiding ostracism for who they are and completely denying their nature. 

If there was an FA movement, what would its efforts encompass? If we agree that FAs experience oppression and discrimination, it would not be unreasonable to apply the paradigm of the size acceptance movement to the FA community. If the goal of an FA movement was to end discrimination against and empower FAs, this could be accomplished utilizing the same mechanisms used by the size acceptance movement: support, public education, advocacy, and research.

For every FA who is a part of the size acceptance movement, there are probably hundreds of FAs who are still in the closet. An FA movement could do outreach to those FAs-in-hiding, providing them with the tools to work through their internalized oppression, to come to acknowledge their preference, and, as a result, to lead fuller, happier lives. Such a movement could sponsor conferences to provide a forum for the discussion of issues affecting FAs, and could join with the size acceptance movement to dialogue about issues that arise between FAs and fat people.

As the size acceptance movement has discovered, public education is a good mechanism for doing outreach and reducing social stigma. Publishing articles in mainstream magazines, networking with both size and non-size related organizations, and working with the media would serve to dispel the myths and stereotypes about FAs, educate the public, and legitimize FAs' preference.

There will be strength in numbers as more FAs come out of the closet, and an FA movement could engage in advocacy. The advocacy agenda could encompass a number of different components. For example, research about FAs is virtually non-existent, and it might be helpful to discover if the FA population is homogeneous or heterogeneous, or if FAness is genetic or environmental. Information is power, and so an FA movement might advocate that the National Institutes of Health fund research about FAs.

Similarly, an FA movement could decide that a priority should be to influence our society's definition of beauty by expanding ideals to include the larger figure. This could be accomplished by staging demonstrations at the editorial offices of mainstream men's magazines, by urging museums to include art depicting the beauty of fat women, or by inundating Madison Avenue with letters protesting the exclusive use of slender models in advertising.

Certainly, there is currently an embryonic FA movement, and Dimensions has been a leader in the work to legitimize the preference of FAs. It seems clear, however, that there are sufficient issues and needs in the FA community to warrant a more formalized movement, needs that the size acceptance movement may never adequately address. One would hope, however, that if such an organized movement is launched, the fat community would reciprocate the dedication and support it has received from FAs, who constitute the majority of allies to the size acceptance movement."

==========


----------



## Chimpi

mossystate said:


> Maybe the bottom line in all this is we need to know exactly what Dimensions stands for..and who it is for. I know most of us think we know, but, all this is telling us..we really don't..? I see the nice FA's out here get a TON of positive attention..a ton. I see some of them be very kind and understanding to the women out here. I see FA's who, right along with many of the women, ' go after ' the less wonderful of the proclaimed FA's. Again, who is Dimensions for.



What Dimensions stands for is going to be different for everyone. Some people will say Fat Acceptance. Some people will say Size Acceptance. Some people will say it's directed towards "Fat Admirers" and anything related to that. Some will say it's directed towards the women that are being admired and all that pertain to that. For me, I see it as Self Acceptance (which can and does include fat/size acceptance and every other facet of individuality in this world).
Who is it for? Everyone, as it should be. I think it's great that we have people here that are not fat, are not considered "Fat Admirers", but are here just because they can understand and would like to see fat/size acceptance.



LoveBHMS said:


> Yes, but it should happen for the simple reason that you should not be reading the Weight Board if you have negative feelings towards the issues towards which it is geared. It bothers me that the same people who harp on and on about respect will have no problem trolling the Weight Board and making commentary on stuff that is not directed at them. If the Weight Board disturbs you, don't fucking read it.



That's what you think. I think that as well, but I do not think it should include lesser negative posts simply and only for that reason. It's a matter of control. Are you able to read about something here on this board that you do not necessarily agree with and are you able to control yourself when inputting your viewpoints and opinions on that board/post/thread? It's also a matter of modification and leadership. What are the moderators doing about it and how can it be improved? I can think of a few people that do go in there and do read most of the threads in there negatively, and also post in a snark or irritating manner, but might have some leeway because of the way they say it and/or who they are elsewhere on the boards. It's just life, and the internet will be a facet of that life.
Control is important. We all lose it, but we all retain it in some fashion or another. 



LoveBHMS said:


> And while on the subject of respect and what this community is and is not about, it's also not ok to use the fact that you aren't into 'that stuff' as your good guy imprimatur. It amazes me how it's supposed to be some indication that you're a good FA if you're not into feederism or weight gain or any other size related kink, like "I'm an FA but i'm not into _that._"



I am unsure whether that is directed at me, but I comment anyway. I do not see anyone saying that "he is a good guy because he's not into feederism or weight gain", nor relating the two at all. Since Stan is the only "good guy" that has been mentioned specifically in this thread, I will take him in example. Stan is a good guy because he's generally considerate to everyone, is a very intelligent and respectful person, comes across as a man with good intentions, and is quite a handsome guy as well. p) I, personally, do not increase some one else's "good guy" points because they're not into feederism or weight gain. In fact, to some degrees of each, I am into both and feel that I am at least some what of a good fellow. I think it's more a matter of a way they come across in their posts that determines what type of person they are. Granted, there's far more to a person than what they post on Dimensions... but really, what else do we have to go on (until we know that person personally)?


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## LoveBHMS

> I am unsure whether that is directed at me, but I comment anyway.



No it was not directed at you, just FAs in general who make that remark.

As for the negative Weight Board comments, the Rules of that forum state specifically that it is for positive discussion of those issues. That became a rule when that board was started, so it's different. Several people who find it distasteful have told me they don't read it for the very reason that they *find it distasteful.*


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## LillyBBBW

Chimpi said:


> I am unsure of the precise nature of the "Fuck You" and the toilet seat comments, but I like to think that he did not gear either of those in the negative sense that most are saying. I think the "Fuck You" was directed at people that label or judge him wrongly (even though, to some people, the way you represent yourself in a post is all they have to judge you on), and I believe the toilet seat comment was made more tongue-in-cheek than anything. I believe him when he says he understands that the women of large size here need a space to talk about private issues. I also believe Stan to be an incredible guy - Very human, with very human feelings and thoughts.
> 
> I will say that I did Private Message some one at the start of this "450+ Pound SSBBW Forum" idea and questioned that person about the relevance of some people (like me) who would like to be able to attend on the strict viewpoint that we could just learn from these women and understand their situation better. I think it is obvious that I am not a 'Super Sized' woman, nor a woman at all. I also think that there is _always_ room for improvement and a greater knowledge of different things, one of which is the troubles that large people have in their everyday lives. However, after reading the past three pages of this thread this morning, I completely understand and respect the women when they say that should not and do not want to be seen as a learning tool. I never thought of it that way.
> 
> I am all for supporting whatever type of "Male Fat Admirer" forum Stan wants, because I do recognize his good intentions and his very real feelings as a human being. Where I whole-heartedly agree with Stan that the mental needs and problems/issues of male "Fat Admirers" is very real and requires attention and equal-based acknowledgment, I also understand and agree that very large sized woman should have a private place to talk about private issues. And, putting my personal human feelings and thoughts forward, I am actually a little more relieved knowing that there's mostly talk of things I don't actually want to read about ("gyno" visits) going on in there, rather than a place for 'Super Sized' women to talk about whatever they want (including gossip and the like).
> I understand your frustration, Stan, when you see this line from Lilly:
> 
> And feel some what belittled by that comment. I will say that it may not be incomparable, but just _different_. The physical problems large women face on a day-to-day basis are very important and should be talked about and hopefully helped and improved. I also think the mental agonies and problems male "Fat Admirers" face on a day-to-day basis and in an overall manner are very important and should be talked about and hopefully helped and improved. I recognize what you feel, Stan, and think Lilly just used the wrong word (or hope she just used the wrong word).
> 
> It's very obvious here that mental agony goes a long way. Stan is suffering from it and we have seen it come about in _many_ people here on this board. Some people find resolution within, some people find a much darker fate. It's unfortunate, but a reality of life.
> 
> I do feel it would be beneficial to talk about "a group of FAs...a club, SIG... something along those lines, with the basic premise being a male FA group that promotes fat acceptance and a positive image for FAs", but I do not think it should be private. I think it would be more beneficial for men to talk about such things and also have input from women as well. I'm all for universal acceptance, whether it's fat acceptance, size acceptance, or self acceptance. I have yet to see a good, private forum justified idea come about that would cater to men. I would like to see less negative posts come about in the Weight Board section when men bring up fantasy related posts, but that is not going to happen any time soon.
> 
> Otherwise, I've come across 95% resistance when trying to hand someone reputation in this thread, but would like to acknowledge some good discussion going on. Universally.



When I said the two aren't comparable, I meant it was not an appropriate comparison. The issues are different. I've tried to be as clear as possible in saying I support the efforts for a forum for FA's. It has been my position for a while, I was the one who initialy brought it up some time ago. I just assumed people would pick up on it. A little later after I made that post I fretted about it but decided to just leave it alone and not bumble about on here with newer flakier posts. Sorry for the confusion or if I offended anyone. 

I do disagree with you on one issue though Chimpi, I feel the FA forum should be private. I'd love to be in there to spread my customary cheer but I think there should be a forum where a guy can blurt out what he's thinking without fear of offending someone, just as the women need a place to talk about private things that won't make people go "eeeew."


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## LoveBHMS

So what are the FFAs supposed to do?

We're just as much FAs as the guys, but we're not guys. I don't want to intrude on guy stuff, but I think the FFA would appreciate not being shut out of FA matters.


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## Ample Pie

I typed my response late last night/early this morning. In it, I think I was even handed and positive. At least, that was my goal. But as I attempted to fall asleep, I thought more and more about Stan's posts and I got angrier and angrier. Then I came here today and...even more insults from someone who I thought was and who obviously desperately wants to be treated as one of the good guys.

You make light of our issues because you think having our own space takes away from you? Then you take the pissing and moaning sarcasm to the SSBHM thread and carry on over there, again making light of what SSBBWs go through WHILE clogging the SSBHM thread (that you claim to think is important for equality) with petty childish bullshit?

In the words of the lolcats, Stan, you're doing it wrong. Moreover, I'm angry and deeply hurt. Where I thought I/we had an ally, there is only another man convinced that to give women an inch is to take a foot from men. Good lord.

Tons of guys come to this forum to meet and get to know SSBBWs, but you know what, so do the SSBBWs. So we like having space here where we can meet and communicate with people who have issues, concerns, and problems that we feel terribly alone in (even if you think they're as laughable as toilet seats). I've seen countless posts from men commenting how they can't find SSBBWs in their areas...guess what! neither can we SSBBWs ourselves. Okay, maybe we should leave dimensions and make our own forum. Is that what you want? Is that what it will take to make you feel like you have enough space and access to everything on Dims? I doubt such an action would really net results most FAs would like. Sincerely. Take away the fatties and what do you have? 

I know that FAs have issues, but, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the one I hear the most has to do with "coming out" as an FA. While I can see that as daunting, it surely as hell isn't an exclusively FA issues. FAs deal with it, so do FFAs, Lesbians, Gay men, Interracial couples, and, hell, even Furries. Maybe the ladies do get bent out of shape every time some guy talks about having to hide his girlfriend from his friends, but, for fuck sake, we're tired of being treated like we're garbage. And anyway, not all the women here jump down the throats of FAs who have a hard time owning up to their preferences and many FAs could even benefit from the myriad of people here on Dimensions who have experience in the "dating people who are not socially acceptable" arena--fat or otherwise. 

On the other hand, the issues that are related to SSBBWs are mostly related JUST to Super Sized Females. 

But since you're feeling slighted, here, I'll let you in on a little Super Sized Issue--see if you can refrain from sexualizing it and/or mocking it and/or feeling disgusted by or sorry for me. Seriously.

I have really fat thighs. Near my pubic area, my thighs are so fat that they fold over. Also, they meet and constantly rub together (not sexy, remember, just anatomy). My stomach (which has most of my weight) is heavy and hangs down covering my entire pubic area (again, not at all sexy, just a fact). Those are the three fattiest parts of my body and they meet in the middle, sealing out light and cool air. Essentially, they create a sauna like environment for my genitalia. It's always hot and moist there (not sexual, just fact, right). 

About 4 months ago, I developed a yeast infection. Not only did I have the ricotta-like discharge and beer-like scent coming from my vagina, I had the world's worst itch. This itch was intense and soul deep. But, I'm a SSBBW whose stomach and fat thighs block all manual access to that particular area of my body, so I couldn't rightly apply medication.

And can you imagine, Stan, if I could take time out from talking with other ladies about toilet seats, how it would have felt for me to have to ask someone else to apply medicine to MY vagina--a place I should be able to reach but can't? Can you imagine? (hot, no?)

So, instead of applying medicine, I changed my diet. I ate a lot of yogurt with active cultures and drank lots of fresh water--in an effort to straighten out my personal flora and fauna and to keep things as fresh as possible. Of course, the other "treating your yeast infection at home" tip was to keep that area dry and cool. Well, I'll be honest with you, nothing sealed up in 300+ lbs of fat is cool or dry. Nothing. It's heavy and hot and humid under my fat and in my folds (not sexy, just anatomy). Now, I suppose I could potentially have put a bunch of pillows under my bum, elevating my stomach and tipping it backward off of my pelvis...then I could have spread my legs wide to keep my fat thighs (which I mentioned ALWAYS touch) separated. (Not sexy, seriously, just fact). 

Maybe then the cool dry air would have reached that part of my body, but I'll tell you that being in that position puts my back out--okay okay, it's all my fault that I'm as big as I am and that the extra weight (and lack of abdominal muscle) has given me a bad back, but seriously, I can't lie in that position for more than a few minutes with out crippling myself. Just can't. So now what?

All the while, mind you, this horrible itching is going ON AND ON getting worse and worse and I can't reach that far into my vagina to scratch it (actually or metaphorically) and (yet again) I didn't take time out from picking toilet seats to ask someone to scratch my vagina. I know, I know I should be brave enough and confident enough to be able to ask random people to do these things for me, but...alas, I'm kind of shy about my sexual anatomy (not to mention my physical limitations). Freak that I am.

So, how about the next best thing? I used my shower massager (not for masturbation, this isn't at all sexual, just to relieve a very serious itch. [no, that isn't a euphemism]). Thus, I used warm water to clean myself and alleviate the itch--it actually felt better, for like 5 minutes. Then it all started up again.

Two days into this, I go to urinate and it burns so badly that I scream out involuntarily and begin to cry. We're talking the worst pain I've ever felt. I'm not sure what's going on. I think "Maybe I've given myself a urinary tract infection while trying to deal with this yeast infection." Of course, I'm not sure, but all I want is to rinse in warm water and be in my bed. The pain, however, gets worse. What I want to do is to look at the area. I want to look at my vagina and see what is making it hurt so badly. I can't though, you know, because I'm super sized. I can't reach it. 

Even when I can use one hand to lift my 300-some pound stomach with one hand (and let me tell you, holding up 300 lbs one handedly is not an easy, carefree chore), I still have to use the other hand to spread apart my fat labia (not sexy, remember, just anatomy, just fact) and then I'm out of fucking hands for holding a mirror. So, instead I contort myself the best way I can and feel blindly around inside as far as I can reach (which isn't far, but I digress). When I do, I feel what feels like (though I can't see it to confirm) an ulcer. In my labia minora. No wonder it hurts to pee.

So I go to hospital (it's the middle of the night and I'm freaked out.) They put me on a gurney. They stick my feet in the stirrups, then they tell me to slide to the end of the gurney. I don't know about you but I have a hard time moving 426 lbs without the use of my legs, so I take my legs down and use them to scoot me down. The nurse puts my feet back into stirrups, then tells me to move down more. Now, I already explained that I need my feet to do that, but I have to tell her again...which I do, because, face it, most medical professionals, as educated and intelligent as they may be, have NO idea what to do with a body like mine (watch them try to take blood pressure on a really fat arm sometime, it's kind of sad and pathetic). 

Eventually, I get down to the end, with my feet up in the stirrups and my lower half (including my stomach because it hangs so low [not sexy]) is totally exposed. I've told them where it hurts, of course, and to start the exam, the doctor shoves his dry speculum inside of me raking it across the ulcer on my labia. I scream out in pain and the nurse tells me to calm down. Uh, yeah, because I just scream for shits and giggles. Doc says "yeah, that's a yeast infection." then he leaves. Well I already knew that, I wanted to know about the ulcer, so I ask the nurse and she says "you have an ulcer there?" as if I hadn't told her that initially. So she takes another look. 

When she's all done she takes my feet down out of the stirrups. Now, I'm not sure if you're aware of what could happen here but let me simplify. I'm 426 lbs on ONE end of a gurney WITHOUT the benefit of my legs in the air acting as a counterbalance. Did you figure it out? The end of the gurney I was on tipped down and hit the floor and so, lying upon it as I was, did I. I fell to the floor, my bare ass and genitalia smacking disgusting cold floor tile. (I realize this doesn't at all compare with having to tell your mom you like fat chicks and that I should go back to mulling over my toilet seat choices, Stan, but stick with me.) I was in pain (hole in your dick anyone?), embarrassed, and on the floor with my labia mashed on cold gross tile.

And you know what I had to do then????

I had to stand up and look that nurse, that thin nurse who has no idea what it's like to be me or a woman like me, right in the eye and ask her what was wrong with me. All I want to do is to hide or run away and cry and I HAVE to stand up, look her directly in the face as if I have all the confidence in the world, as if I'm not some monstrous fucking freak who can't even use a gurney like a normal woman, and ask her to tell me what's wrong. 

I mean, god forbid that we fat ladies EVER EVER show anything but complete and utter confidence in ourselves and our fat, because if we did, if we acted for even a tiny second as if our fat was a hinderance or a bother, then you guys might really have to examine your preferences and you might decide that you're a bunch of freaks. (For evidence of this, see the multitude of "why can't you BBWs be confident about yourselves" threads.) And so I did it. I stood up, without tears in my eyes, and I asked her what was wrong.

Turns out that that shower massager that is such a useful tool to the super sized amongst us and which had provided me with such relief from the itching had also burned me. That's right, Stan, because I couldn't reach manually and because I'm, admittedly, too prideful to ask someone else to apply medicine to my coo, I burned the most intimate part of my body with water hot enough to blister. What I want you to consider is how bad that itch had to have been for water that hot to have been a relief. Then I want you to realize that that had been my best option at the time--given the limitations of my size. I realize, of course, that such problems come NO WHERE near the tattoo/community issue you discussed earlier, but it was pretty dire and painful (not to mention humiliating) for me.

Ah, if only I could reach the way I needed to. And, shit, wouldn't it have been great if, at that moment in December, I had had some place where I could talk to other super sized women. Maybe I could have gotten tips for how to deal with it. Maybe I could have just had some moral support. Oh, if only such a place had existed. But it didn't. So I dealt with the yeast infection and the results of it on my own. 

You may or may not know much about yeast infections, but let me tell you this: when you kill off the bacteria in that area, the yeast begins to flourish. That's why women on antibiotics often get yeast infections. Keep that in mind. At any rate, I took the medicine prescribed for me for the yeast infection (I didn't get the vicodin prescribed to me for the pain of the burn I'd given myself, but instead decided to _wo_man up and deal with it.) The yeast infection started to go away, but I still had to cleanse the burns. Doing so, while a challenge, also served to kill off the bacteria in the area. While that's good for preventing the burns from getting infected, it also, as you may recall, created an environment for the yeast to thrive.

Back and forth, back and forth. It went on and on. I'd get one of the issues cleared up but would make the other issue worse in the process. 3 months. 3 months of not being able to clear up this incessant itchy painful hell and all I keep thinking is "being this fat, I'll never clear it up. never. I'll never be able to keep my pubic area cool and dry the way I need to. I'm going to have this forever." It was terrifying, Stan, let me tell you. Terrifying. I thought I'd never ever have a healthy vagina again. That isn't a damned joke either. Can you imagine the stupid sudden realization that your penis will, for the rest of your life, itch or be in severe pain.

It made/makes me feel like a failure--as a human and as a woman. What I wanted was to die, to end the constant irritation, pain, and realization that to be as fat as I am, I must also suffer things like this that cause irritation, pain, anxiety, embarrassment, and the understanding that I am not and cannot be a normal functioning woman. Ever. 

Eventually, though, it did clear up, but can you imagine, Stan, if I'd had the resource of a super sized women's board during all of this, how much stress and anxiety I could have been saved? (Once I convinced the ladies to stop talking about toilet seats, of course.) Can you even imagine? Or does all of that fade away, merely secondary to the fact that you FAs don't have a private board too?

I don't blame anyone but myself for my issues. I'm fat. I made myself fat. It isn't any FA's fault that I have to deal with the issues I have to deal with and I have no interest in punishing FAs (or anyone but myself) for those issues, but for fuck-sake I'd really like a place where I can take a break from beating myself up, putting on a brave face, and constantly realizing over and over again that I'll never be a normal woman. I'd really like a place where other women who've faced similar issues can tell me how they beat the issues and attained some normality. I'd like to commune, to commiserate, to not feel like the biggest freakiest thing in the room--even if just for a moment.

What I don't understand is how any of that takes away from what you get here, Stan. Especially since you get what you give. I don't want to take anything away from you, I just want some space with the other girls like me. And if _you_ can't deal with that, well then fuck you right back.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

I'm sorry that you had to go through that Rebecca, more so that you had to deal with it alone. 
I think its incredibly brave of you to put that out there to illustrate a point and I dont think that anyone could make that point any more clear. I truly wish that I could be as well spoken and get my meaning across as well as you just did. I usually just end up saying something that basicly equates to kiss my ass when I'm mad. 




Rebecca said:


> I typed my response late last night/early this morning. In it, I think I was even handed and positive. At least, that was my goal. But as I attempted to fall asleep, I thought more and more about Stan's posts and I got angrier and angrier. Then I came here today and...even more insults from someone who I thought was and who obviously desperately wants to be treated as one of the good guys.
> 
> You make light of our issues because you think having our own space takes away from you? Then you take the pissing and moaning sarcasm to the SSBHM thread and carry on over there, again making light of what SSBBWs go through WHILE clogging the SSBHM thread (that you claim to think is important for equality) with petty childish bullshit?
> 
> In the words of the lolcats, Stan, you're doing it wrong. Moreover, I'm angry and deeply hurt. Where I thought I/we had an ally, there is only another man convinced that to give women an inch is to take a foot from men. Good lord.
> 
> Tons of guys come to this forum to meet and get to know SSBBWs, but you know what, so do the SSBBWs. So we like having space here where we can meet and communicate with people who have issues, concerns, and problems that we feel terribly alone in (even if you think they're as laughable as toilet seats). I've seen countless posts from men commenting how they can't find SSBBWs in their areas...guess what! neither can we SSBBWs ourselves. Okay, maybe we should leave dimensions and make our own forum. Is that what you want? Is that what it will take to make you feel like you have enough space and access to everything on Dims? I doubt such an action would really net results most FAs would like. Sincerely. Take away the fatties and what do you have?
> 
> I know that FAs have issues, but, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the one I hear the most has to do with "coming out" as an FA. While I can see that as daunting, it surely as hell isn't an exclusively FA issues. FAs deal with it, so do FFAs, Lesbians, Gay men, Interracial couples, and, hell, even Furries. Maybe the ladies do get bent out of shape every time some guy talks about having to hide his girlfriend from his friends, but, for fuck sake, we're tired of being treated like we're garbage. And anyway, not all the women here jump down the throats of FAs who have a hard time owning up to their preferences and many FAs could even benefit from the myriad of people here on Dimensions who have experience in the "dating people who are not socially acceptable" arena--fat or otherwise.
> 
> On the other hand, the issues that are related to SSBBWs are mostly related JUST to Super Sized Females.
> 
> But since you're feeling slighted, here, I'll let you in on a little Super Sized Issue--see if you can refrain from sexualizing it and/or mocking it and/or feeling disgusted by or sorry for me. Seriously.
> 
> I have really fat thighs. Near my pubic area, my thighs are so fat that they fold over. Also, they meet and constantly rub together (not sexy, remember, just anatomy). My stomach (which has most of my weight) is heavy and hangs down covering my entire pubic area (again, not at all sexy, just a fact). Those are the three fattiest parts of my body and they meet in the middle, sealing out light and cool air. Essentially, they create a sauna like environment for my genitalia. It's always hot and moist there (not sexual, just fact, right).
> 
> About 4 months ago, I developed a yeast infection. Not only did I have the ricotta-like discharge and beer-like scent coming from my vagina, I had the world's worst itch. This itch was intense and soul deep. But, I'm a SSBBW whose stomach and fat thighs block all manual access to that particular area of my body, so I couldn't rightly apply medication.
> 
> And can you imagine, Stan, if I could take time out from talking with other ladies about toilet seats, how it would have felt for me to have to ask someone else to apply medicine to MY vagina--a place I should be able to reach but can't? Can you imagine? (hot, no?)
> 
> So, instead of applying medicine, I changed my diet. I ate a lot of yogurt with active cultures and drank lots of fresh water--in an effort to straighten out my personal flora and fauna and to keep things as fresh as possible. Of course, the other "treating your yeast infection at home" tip was to keep that area dry and cool. Well, I'll be honest with you, nothing sealed up in 300+ lbs of fat is cool or dry. Nothing. It's heavy and hot and humid under my fat and in my folds (not sexy, just anatomy). Now, I suppose I could potentially have put a bunch of pillows under my bum, elevating my stomach and tipping it backward off of my pelvis...then I could have spread my legs wide to keep my fat thighs (which I mentioned ALWAYS touch) separated. (Not sexy, seriously, just fact).
> 
> Maybe then the cool dry air would have reached that part of my body, but I'll tell you that being in that position puts my back out--okay okay, it's all my fault that I'm as big as I am and that the extra weight (and lack of abdominal muscle) has given me a bad back, but seriously, I can't lie in that position for more than a few minutes with out crippling myself. Just can't. So now what?
> 
> All the while, mind you, this horrible itching is going ON AND ON getting worse and worse and I can't reach that far into my vagina to scratch it (actually or metaphorically) and (yet again) I didn't take time out from picking toilet seats to ask someone to scratch my vagina. I know, I know I should be brave enough and confident enough to be able to ask random people to do these things for me, but...alas, I'm kind of shy about my sexual anatomy (not to mention my physical limitations). Freak that I am.
> 
> So, how about the next best thing? I used my shower massager (not for masturbation, this isn't at all sexual, just to relieve a very serious itch. [no, that isn't a euphemism]). Thus, I used warm water to clean myself and alleviate the itch--it actually felt better, for like 5 minutes. Then it all started up again.
> 
> Two days into this, I go to urinate and it burns so badly that I scream out involuntarily and begin to cry. We're talking the worst pain I've ever felt. I'm not sure what's going on. I think "Maybe I've given myself a urinary tract infection while trying to deal with this yeast infection." Of course, I'm not sure, but all I want is to rinse in warm water and be in my bed. The pain, however, gets worse. What I want to do is to look at the area. I want to look at my vagina and see what is making it hurt so badly. I can't though, you know, because I'm super sized. I can't reach it.
> 
> Even when I can use one hand to lift my 300-some pound stomach with one hand (and let me tell you, holding up 300 lbs one handedly is not an easy, carefree chore), I still have to use the other hand to spread apart my fat labia (not sexy, remember, just anatomy, just fact) and then I'm out of fucking hands for holding a mirror. So, instead I contort myself the best way I can and feel blindly around inside as far as I can reach (which isn't far, but I digress). When I do, I feel what feels like (though I can't see it to confirm) an ulcer. In my labia minora. No wonder it hurts to pee.
> 
> So I go to hospital (it's the middle of the night and I'm freaked out.) They put me on a gurney. They stick my feet in the stirrups, then they tell me to slide to the end of the gurney. I don't know about you but I have a hard time moving 426 lbs without the use of my legs, so I take my legs down and use them to scoot me down. The nurse puts my feet back into stirrups, then tells me to move down more. Now, I already explained that I need my feet to do that, but I have to tell her again...which I do, because, face it, most medical professionals, as educated and intelligent as they may be, have NO idea what to do with a body like mine (watch them try to take blood pressure on a really fat arm sometime, it's kind of sad and pathetic).
> 
> Eventually, I get down to the end, with my feet up in the stirrups and my lower half (including my stomach because it hangs so low [not sexy]) is totally exposed. I've told them where it hurts, of course, and to start the exam, the doctor shoves his dry speculum inside of me raking it across the ulcer on my labia. I scream out in pain and the nurse tells me to calm down. Uh, yeah, because I just scream for shits and giggles. Doc says "yeah, that's a yeast infection." then he leaves. Well I already knew that, I wanted to know about the ulcer, so I ask the nurse and she says "you have an ulcer there?" as if I hadn't told her that initially. So she takes another look.
> 
> When she's all done she takes my feet down out of the stirrups. Now, I'm not sure if you're aware of what could happen here but let me simplify. I'm 426 lbs on ONE end of a gurney WITHOUT the benefit of my legs in the air acting as a counterbalance. Did you figure it out? The end of the gurney I was on tipped down and hit the floor and so, lying upon it as I was, did I. I fell to the floor, my bare ass and genitalia smacking disgusting cold floor tile. (I realize this doesn't at all compare with having to tell your mom you like fat chicks and that I should go back to mulling over my toilet seat choices, Stan, but stick with me.) I was in pain (hole in your dick anyone?), embarrassed, and on the floor with my labia mashed on cold gross tile.
> 
> And you know what I had to do then????
> 
> I had to stand up and look that nurse, that thin nurse who has no idea what it's like to be me or a woman like me, right in the eye and ask her what was wrong with me. All I want to do is to hide or run away and cry and I HAVE to stand up, look her directly in the face as if I have all the confidence in the world, as if I'm not some monstrous fucking freak who can't even use a gurney like a normal woman, and ask her to tell me what's wrong.
> 
> I mean, god forbid that we fat ladies EVER EVER show anything but complete and utter confidence in ourselves and our fat, because if we did, if we acted for even a tiny second as if our fat was a hinderance or a bother, then you guys might really have to examine your preferences and you might decide that you're a bunch of freaks. (For evidence of this, see the multitude of "why can't you BBWs be confident about yourselves" threads.) And so I did it. I stood up, without tears in my eyes, and I asked her what was wrong.
> 
> Turns out that that shower massager that is such a useful tool to the super sized amongst us and which had provided me with such relief from the itching had also burned me. That's right, Stan, because I couldn't reach manually and because I'm, admittedly, too prideful to ask someone else to apply medicine to my coo, I burned the most intimate part of my body with water hot enough to blister. What I want you to consider is how bad that itch had to have been for water that hot to have been a relief. Then I want you to realize that that had been my best option at the time--given the limitations of my size. I realize, of course, that such problems come NO WHERE near the tattoo/community issue you discussed earlier, but it was pretty dire and painful (not to mention humiliating) for me.
> 
> Ah, if only I could reach the way I needed to. And, shit, wouldn't it have been great if, at that moment in December, I had had some place where I could talk to other super sized women. Maybe I could have gotten tips for how to deal with it. Maybe I could have just had some moral support. Oh, if only such a place had existed. But it didn't. So I dealt with the yeast infection and the results of it on my own.
> 
> You may or may not know much about yeast infections, but let me tell you this: when you kill off the bacteria in that area, the yeast begins to flourish. That's why women on antibiotics often get yeast infections. Keep that in mind. At any rate, I took the medicine prescribed for me for the yeast infection (I didn't get the vicodin prescribed to me for the pain of the burn I'd given myself, but instead decided to _wo_man up and deal with it.) The yeast infection started to go away, but I still had to cleanse the burns. Doing so, while a challenge, also served to kill off the bacteria in the area. While that's good for preventing the burns from getting infected, it also, as you may recall, created an environment for the yeast to thrive.
> 
> Back and forth, back and forth. It went on and on. I'd get one of the issues cleared up but would make the other issue worse in the process. 3 months. 3 months of not being able to clear up this incessant itchy painful hell and all I keep thinking is "being this fat, I'll never clear it up. never. I'll never be able to keep my pubic area cool and dry the way I need to. I'm going to have this forever." It was terrifying, Stan, let me tell you. Terrifying. I thought I'd never ever have a healthy vagina again. That isn't a damned joke either. Can you imagine the stupid sudden realization that your penis will, for the rest of your life, itch or be in severe pain.
> 
> It made/makes me feel like a failure--as a human and as a woman. What I wanted was to die, to end the constant irritation, pain, and realization that to be as fat as I am, I must also suffer things like this that cause irritation, pain, anxiety, embarrassment, and the understanding that I am not and cannot be a normal functioning woman. Ever.
> 
> Eventually, though, it did clear up, but can you imagine, Stan, if I'd had the resource of a super sized women's board during all of this, how much stress and anxiety I could have been saved? (Once I convinced the ladies to stop talking about toilet seats, of course.) Can you even imagine? Or does all of that fade away, merely secondary to the fact that you FAs don't have a private board too?
> 
> I don't blame anyone but myself for my issues. I'm fat. I made myself fat. It isn't any FA's fault that I have to deal with the issues I have to deal with and I have no interest in punishing FAs (or anyone but myself) for those issues, but for fuck-sake I'd really like a place where I can take a break from beating myself up, putting on a brave face, and constantly realizing over and over again that I'll never be a normal woman. I'd really like a place where other women who've faced similar issues can tell me how they beat the issues and attained some normality. I'd like to commune, to commiserate, to not feel like the biggest freakiest thing in the room--even if just for a moment.
> 
> What I don't understand is how any of that takes away from what you get here, Stan. Especially since you get what you give. I don't want to take anything away from you, I just want some space with the other girls like me. And if _you_ can't deal with that, well then fuck you right back.


----------



## ThatFatGirl

I can't rep you, Rebecca, because I repped your previous post in this thread, but thank you for sharing this for the sake of all of us who have to deal with similar issues. 

I'm stunned having an ssbbw only board has been such an issue here. 

I'm extremely grateful to Conrad for providing the forum and to the moderators who help to run it. It was a long time coming and tremendously necessary.


----------



## LillyBBBW

ThatFatGirl said:


> I can't rep you, Rebecca, because I repped your previous post in this thread, but thank you for sharing this for the sake of all of us who have to deal with similar issues.
> 
> I'm stunned having an ssbbw only board has been such an issue here.
> 
> I'm extremely grateful to Conrad for providing the forum and to the moderators who help to run it. It was a long time coming and tremendously necessary.



Rep given. If I could I'd give it again. I'm sorry you went through that alone Rebecca, and sorry you had to relive it now. :kiss2:


----------



## TallFatSue

I'm very grateful for the SSBBW only board too, and I don't understand why it's such a sore subject for some people. There are certain aspects, challenges and downright problems about being as fat as I am that I'd like to discuss *only* with other supersize women. It's only right.

My analogy is that my height qualifies me for the Tall Women's Club. I've never joined, but it would not bother me to be excluded from a 6ft5-and-over forum (their equivalent of supersize), because they deal with some potentially serious issues that a mere 6-footer like me doesn't face.


----------



## ripley

fa_man_stan said:


> I may not be the smartest guy, but I have a pretty good memory... You sent me a terse PM after this post. Maybe I had it coming... The difficult thing about having a good debate with you Ruby is that your responses aren't based on any discernable logic that I can think of... and then you start to rant.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All rightee then... (uh... guys, just keep silent otherwise you are going to get a flogging like I'm receiving at the moment...)
> 
> 
> Here is another little conspiracy for ya'll.
> 
> 
> Once upon a time there was this FA who wanted to get a tattoo. He was a member of this community which he believed supported his preference in large sized women. One day the opportunity arose where he could appear on television to get a tattoo and show his support for this community and size acceptance. He knew he'd have to ask the owner of this community for permission to mention this community on TV so he asked. The FA received no response... nada... zilch... jackshit. So when it came time to go onto this television show the producers again tried to contact the owner of this community. As before, they received no reply. The FA was not permitted to mention this community on television. He was able to promote another fat acceptance organization, which didn't particularly give a rat's ass about his kind anyway. A few weeks later the owner of this FAs community wrote him a letter, a very nice cordial friendly letter. The owner informed the FA that he didn't approve of tattoos and refused to have his community associated with this sort of activity. The FA thanked the owner for his belated acknowledgement, and chalked up the situation as another one of life's lessions.
> 
> I know... This is yet another tale of intrigue from some little annoying FA troublemaker who is making it inconvient to conduct the important business of Dimensions. You big beautiful ladies have more important things to do, like discuss hygene issues... or which stores have the cutest super-sized toilet seat covers.
> 
> 
> For those of you who think I'm just some old married chauvinistic FA who doesn't understand this community, doesn't empathize with the women on these boards and only thinks about his penis and the penises of other FAs and just rants and is full of shit...
> 
> Fuck You.
> 
> 
> The next time you ladies complain that there aren't any "good" intelligent men (FAs) around that appreciate or understand your situation, who are worthy of your affections... do a little soul searching. Maybe you are part of the problem.






Way, way, WAY out of line. 

Many woman here have said what a "good guy" you are, Stan. Even after this post. You can never again say you don't get a fair shake here, because they've given you quarter you've just proved you no longer deserve.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Chimpi said:


> I am unsure of the precise nature of the "Fuck You" and the toilet seat comments, but I like to think that he did not gear either of those in the negative sense that most are saying. I think the "Fuck You" was directed at people that label or judge him wrongly (even though, to some people, the way you represent yourself in a post is all they have to judge you on), and I believe the toilet seat comment was made more tongue-in-cheek than anything. I believe him when he says he understands that the women of large size here need a space to talk about private issues. I also believe Stan to be an incredible guy - Very human, with very human feelings and thoughts.
> 
> I will say that I did Private Message some one at the start of this "450+ Pound SSBBW Forum" idea and questioned that person about the relevance of some people (like me) who would like to be able to attend on the strict viewpoint that we could just learn from these women and understand their situation better. I think it is obvious that I am not a 'Super Sized' woman, nor a woman at all. I also think that there is _always_ room for improvement and a greater knowledge of different things, one of which is the troubles that large people have in their everyday lives. However, after reading the past three pages of this thread this morning, I completely understand and respect the women when they say that should not and do not want to be seen as a learning tool. I never thought of it that way.
> 
> I am all for supporting whatever type of "Male Fat Admirer" forum Stan wants, because I do recognize his good intentions and his very real feelings as a human being. Where I whole-heartedly agree with Stan that the mental needs and problems/issues of male "Fat Admirers" is very real and requires attention and equal-based acknowledgment, I also understand and agree that very large sized woman should have a private place to talk about private issues. And, putting my personal human feelings and thoughts forward, I am actually a little more relieved knowing that there's mostly talk of things I don't actually want to read about ("gyno" visits) going on in there, rather than a place for 'Super Sized' women to talk about whatever they want (including gossip and the like).
> I understand your frustration, Stan, when you see this line from Lilly:
> 
> And feel some what belittled by that comment. I will say that it may not be incomparable, but just _different_. The physical problems large women face on a day-to-day basis are very important and should be talked about and hopefully helped and improved. I also think the mental agonies and problems male "Fat Admirers" face on a day-to-day basis and in an overall manner are very important and should be talked about and hopefully helped and improved. I recognize what you feel, Stan, and think Lilly just used the wrong word (or hope she just used the wrong word).
> 
> It's very obvious here that mental agony goes a long way. Stan is suffering from it and we have seen it come about in _many_ people here on this board. Some people find resolution within, some people find a much darker fate. It's unfortunate, but a reality of life.
> 
> I do feel it would be beneficial to talk about "a group of FAs...a club, SIG... something along those lines, with the basic premise being a male FA group that promotes fat acceptance and a positive image for FAs", but I do not think it should be private. I think it would be more beneficial for men to talk about such things and also have input from women as well. I'm all for universal acceptance, whether it's fat acceptance, size acceptance, or self acceptance. I have yet to see a good, private forum justified idea come about that would cater to men. I would like to see less negative posts come about in the Weight Board section when men bring up fantasy related posts, but that is not going to happen any time soon.
> 
> Otherwise, I've come across 95% resistance when trying to hand someone reputation in this thread, but would like to acknowledge some good discussion going on. Universally.



I owe you rep for this......


----------



## Tina

I'd like to acknowledge this, because it directly addresses the issue of FAs, but it seems to be getting lost in the shuffle. Remember, this is from the man who owns this board, and it doesn't at all seem as if he would be adverse to listening to BHMs and FAs, male and female. This being an editorial (I remember it), it's not a short little paragraph, and some don't like long posts, but it seems to me that it's worth the time put forth to read it.


Webmaster said:


> How's this from way, way back when:
> 
> ===========
> 
> "Over the last several months, there has been a great deal of discussion about the role of allies in the size acceptance movement. The topic has generated dialogues, debates, and arguments in forums ranging from casual conversations to electronic mail to the pages of publications such as Dimensions. It has caused bruised feelings and political controversies. But throughout the process, there has been little acknowledgement that the vast majority of the allies to the size acceptance movement possess a strong common denominator that makes their relationship to fat people unique and makes them different from allies to other movements.
> 
> Acknowledging that the majority of allies to the size acceptance movement are FAs changes the premise of such a discussion. While there may be different degrees of "FAness," with some people on one end of the continuum experiencing a mild preference for the larger figure, the experience of most of the FAs in the size acceptance movement is at the other end of the continuum. Theirs is not simply a sexual preference, but an orientation that defines not only their sexuality, but to a significant extent, their self-concept and their lifestyle. Having fat people in their lives contributes to FAs' sense of completeness and fulfillment. Recognizing this means understanding that the support of the majority of allies to the size acceptance movement is not based merely on an intellectual understanding of the issues or the wish to support a loved one; rather, their support of the movement is a reflection of their personal issues about their FAness just as a fat person's support of the movement is a reflection of their personal issues about their fatness. For this reason, FAs' allegiance to the size acceptance movement is very different from, say, a sighted person's support of the blind movement or a white person's support of the civil rights movement.
> 
> It's healthy for movements to do some introspection, and recognizing that FAs as a group have their own issues and needs is a good springboard from which to examine whether or not the size acceptance movement effectively serves the FA community, and if not, whether FAs need to create their own organizations and movement.
> 
> There are several arguments why the FA community is not well-served by the size acceptance movement. First, because the size acceptance movement was created to end size discrimination and to empower fat people, FAs are by definition a corollary to the movement, and their issues are relegated to the back burner. At NAAFA events, for example, there are many workshops and discussions about issues affecting fat people, and usually only one for FAs (which usually draws a higher attendance of fat people than FAs).
> 
> Most of the publications in the size acceptance movement rarely acknowledge FAs or their issues. With the exception of Dimensions, which speaks to the range of FA experiences and serves as a bridge between the FA and fat communities, the most widely-read FA publications are almost exclusively sexual in nature. Ironically, these magazines are produced by non-FAs who generally don't understand FAs' sexuality.
> 
> Very little of the movement's efforts in public education are expended on behalf of FAs. There are currently no informational pamphlets for FAs nor on the topic of the sexual preference of FAs. FAs are rarely, if ever, mentioned in public speeches and other educational endeavors. While dispelling myths and stereotypes about fat people ranks high on the size acceptance agenda, there has been no concerted effort to reduce the social stigma against FAs. In the media, FAs are seen only in the context of their sexual preference, and then are mostly treated as sideshow oddities. In the last five years, only one newspaper article has legitimately discussed the FA orientation. Likewise, the movement's efforts in influencing research and public policy have virtually ignored the FA community.
> 
> While the size acceptance movement has not met the needs of the FA community, it does not follow that the movement should be castigated. While FAs' issues and needs are related to those of the fat population, they're separate, and a strong argument can be made that FAs should develop their own movement.
> 
> In thinking about the elements of a hypothetical FA movement, the first step would be to define the central issues and needs of the FA community. Are the primary issues for FAs finding fat partners, or are the issues deeper than that? It seems that, although it is rarely acknowledged and discussed, FAs experience significant social stigma and discrimination, and as a result, can have a great deal of internalized oppression.
> 
> Although there is a dearth of theory and research about FAs, anecdotal evidence suggests that early on, FAs are given the distinct message that their preference isn't acceptable. As a result, many FAs' first explorations into their preference are accompanied by a mixture of excitement and shame. Over time, many FAs learn to separate their FAness from the rest of their lives, and either learn to deny that part of themselves or to isolate themselves. Due to social stigma and the denial of their preference, many FAs have relationships with and marry average size partners, relegating their preference to shame-filled fantasies.
> 
> For those FAs who come out of the closet, the road is equally difficult, as they are often judged for their preference by their friends, families, and co-workers. They may find themselves or their partners shunned by their families, and they may experience a "glass ceiling" in a corporate world where executives are as judged by their choice in spouses as they are by their abilities.
> 
> Even for FAs who find and embrace the size acceptance movement, there is no guarantee that they will escape stigma and internalized oppression. Ostensibly, the movement is the one place in our society where FAs can be who they are, unselfconscious and free from ridicule for their preference. Yet FAs often find that they cannot express the full range of their experience without exposing themselves to disparagement for many of the very qualities that make them FAs. Ironically, it often seems that fat people can't truly accept FAs' admiration of their physical attributes and size; rather, the essence of FAness is something many fat people would rather minimize. As a result, FAs often walk a tightrope in expressing an "acceptable" level of FAness, trying to strike a balance between avoiding ostracism for who they are and completely denying their nature.
> 
> If there was an FA movement, what would its efforts encompass? If we agree that FAs experience oppression and discrimination, it would not be unreasonable to apply the paradigm of the size acceptance movement to the FA community. If the goal of an FA movement was to end discrimination against and empower FAs, this could be accomplished utilizing the same mechanisms used by the size acceptance movement: support, public education, advocacy, and research.
> 
> For every FA who is a part of the size acceptance movement, there are probably hundreds of FAs who are still in the closet. An FA movement could do outreach to those FAs-in-hiding, providing them with the tools to work through their internalized oppression, to come to acknowledge their preference, and, as a result, to lead fuller, happier lives. Such a movement could sponsor conferences to provide a forum for the discussion of issues affecting FAs, and could join with the size acceptance movement to dialogue about issues that arise between FAs and fat people.
> 
> As the size acceptance movement has discovered, public education is a good mechanism for doing outreach and reducing social stigma. Publishing articles in mainstream magazines, networking with both size and non-size related organizations, and working with the media would serve to dispel the myths and stereotypes about FAs, educate the public, and legitimize FAs' preference.
> 
> There will be strength in numbers as more FAs come out of the closet, and an FA movement could engage in advocacy. The advocacy agenda could encompass a number of different components. For example, research about FAs is virtually non-existent, and it might be helpful to discover if the FA population is homogeneous or heterogeneous, or if FAness is genetic or environmental. Information is power, and so an FA movement might advocate that the National Institutes of Health fund research about FAs.
> 
> Similarly, an FA movement could decide that a priority should be to influence our society's definition of beauty by expanding ideals to include the larger figure. This could be accomplished by staging demonstrations at the editorial offices of mainstream men's magazines, by urging museums to include art depicting the beauty of fat women, or by inundating Madison Avenue with letters protesting the exclusive use of slender models in advertising.
> 
> Certainly, there is currently an embryonic FA movement, and Dimensions has been a leader in the work to legitimize the preference of FAs. It seems clear, however, that there are sufficient issues and needs in the FA community to warrant a more formalized movement, needs that the size acceptance movement may never adequately address. One would hope, however, that if such an organized movement is launched, the fat community would reciprocate the dedication and support it has received from FAs, who constitute the majority of allies to the size acceptance movement."
> 
> ==========





LoveBHMS said:


> No it was not directed at you, just FAs in general who make that remark.
> 
> As for the negative Weight Board comments, the Rules of that forum state specifically that it is for positive discussion of those issues. That became a rule when that board was started, so it's different. Several people who find it distasteful have told me they don't read it for the very reason that they *find it distasteful.*


And as you know, I am one of them.  I try to stay away from the sections that I know will make me nuts. This is fairly effective, until we receive reported post alerts and I need to go take a looksee. :blink: But it is something I suggest to those who are bothered by some parts of the Dimensions forums, just as I suggest that people who rub each other the wrong way put each other on ignore.


LoveBHMS said:


> So what are the FFAs supposed to do?
> 
> We're just as much FAs as the guys, but we're not guys. I don't want to intrude on guy stuff, but I think the FFA would appreciate not being shut out of FA matters.


Love )), to me and FA is an FA, male or female. If there were to be a separate board for FAs, I would hope that there would be, and think there _should_ be, room for both, because there aren't just BHMs posting on the BHM/FFA board. 

I just know that it will take initiative on the parts of those who would like a private board in order to make it happen. Conrad doesn't usually go around offering this stuff, but likely needs to know there is a need and desire for it.


----------



## ripley

AnnMarie said:


> I wasn't going to tread in here, but here I am -
> 
> Stan's general argument of FA treatment and perception here - to me - is dead on. I have waved my FA flag over and over, but there are women here (just going to say it) who completely resent FAs (the good, well-meaning, normal ones I'm referring to) because they hate their bodies and always will. There are women here who resent FAs for personal experience with complete assholes who hijacked the FA term in order to do damage in one way or another. There are women here who no matter how they feel about their bodies, good/bad/indifferent will never, ever want a man who is interested in their outer body, so they resent FAs for their interest that rises from a physical attraction.



So it's the women's fault, once again?

As for "hostile" vibes here at dims, I agree with you. Where I disagree is that it's just aimed at FAs. I think almost EVERYONE here has come up against "hostile" reactions to posts they've made...unless they confine themselves to the "change a letter" threads in the Lounge.


----------



## AnnMarie

ripley said:


> So it's the women's fault, once again?



I think in two of those things I stated it's quite clearly mistreatment in some way that led to them feeling that way. How you translate that into me saying it's all women's fault, I'm not sure. 

How they feel and how they got there are different things - and I don't think how people feel is a "fault" of anyone, it's just that - how they feel.


----------



## liz (di-va)

Does anybody else but me think a new thread ought to be started to discuss FA issues if we're gonna?

The fact that the FA discussion is occupying a thread about the SSBBW board highlights the conflict at hand-- it's perpetuating the idea that you gotta be for/against one/the other here. That there isn't room for both (there _is_).

I, for one, who've been involved in several headache-inducing arguments in chat recently defending FAs against people who use the word as an insult, am getting really tired of the for-us-or-against-us atmosphere. Doesn't have to be like that. 

Which is the whole point, isn't it? Under all the fighting I see a fair amount of agreement about having space for all. But maybe not all in the same thread.


----------



## ripley

AnnMarie said:


> I think in two of those things I stated it's quite clearly mistreatment in some way that led to them feeling that way. How you translate that into me saying it's all women's fault, I'm not sure.
> 
> How they feel and how they got there are different things - and I don't think how people feel is a "fault" of anyone, it's just that - how they feel.



I am sorry if I missed the point, but to me (and perhaps I'm responding to more than just your post) it seems like a lot is blamed on women who "don't like their bodies/fat/whatever"....and I think that is the wrong road to go down, in terms of Size Acceptance.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

I won't presume to speak for Stan. In fact I disagree with him re the need for SSBBW to have their privacy. They're duly and clearly entitled, imo. That said, it does hurt to feel untrusted in a relationship; especially when you feel you've proven yourself trustworthy over and over again. 

I don't know if that's where Stan is coming from? If it is I think perhaps he deserves a little more empathy than I'm seeing here. He doesn't need me to defend him but he's had my back on more than one occasion. In fact I've seen him advocate for the misunderstood time and again. I've often seen his hand reach out to comfort a lot of people who might've felt abandoned otherwise. Wherever he's coming from on this and whether I agree with him or not I am obliged to respect him for having the courage of his convictions.

If he made his point rather badly it stands out because he usually nails it. I've seen people here with thousands of posts who've yet once to make good sense. I hope we're not also saddling him with unfair expectations? :bow:

This thread moved me to change my siggy to an old fave, btw.


----------



## Mini

Wow, what in the fuck is going on here? 

1) Men: Support the women on the other boards. Let 'em have their private space if they've got issues they understandably don't want to discuss where any fucking jagoff can wank freely to the idea of their suffering. 

2) Women: I feel dirty for being an FA right now. Christ.


----------



## LoveBHMS

When somebody's post includes such gems as 



> You big beautiful ladies have more important things to do, like discuss hygene issues... or which stores have the cutest super-sized toilet seat covers.



then no, you don't get a free ride. The fact of Stan having a fat woman tattoo or being a "nice guy" does not negate the nastiness or irrantional anger shown in this comment.

The simple fact of being an FA, or an out FA does not get you a parade down Main Street or have the Post Office issue a stamp in your honor. Mature adults do not, and should not get social bonus points for being decent people.


----------



## Mini

LoveBHMS said:


> When somebody's post includes such gems as
> 
> 
> 
> then no, you don't get a free ride. The fact of Stan having a fat woman tattoo or being a "nice guy" does not negate the nastiness or irrantional anger shown in this comment.
> 
> The simple fact of being an FA, or an out FA does not get you a parade down Main Street or have the Post Office issue a stamp in your honor. Mature adults do not, and should not get social bonus points for being decent people.



Not saying it does, don't get me wrong. I really don't know where it's coming from.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Rebecca,

Your post left tears running down my face. I think many of us this size have had, even if not that exact experience, close to it - if not the same issue, the same feeling of helplessness. I truly thank you for your courage in sharing something like that. I think (hope) that maybe it will sink in now, at least for some.

Mini,

No need to feel dirty for being an FA. Many of us adore FAs (myself included). You can't judge the bushel by one rotten apple, and I think that's what happens a lot. 

But then - there are some posts made by men at least claiming to be FAs, and some of these shatter the reality of a BBW in a way that can never be taken back. The posts Liz was discussing are a prime example. Once you read something like that, it changes you in ways difficult to imagine if you haven't experienced it. 

I want to thank all the FAs on this board that ARE supportive, that DO care, and that are here to contribute and improve things. There are MANY of you out there, and we're glad you're here. Please don't ever feel that you're not appreciated - you truly are.


----------



## Tina

liz (di-va) said:


> Does anybody else but me think a new thread ought to be started to discuss FA issues if we're gonna?
> 
> The fact that the FA discussion is occupying a thread about the SSBBW board highlights the conflict at hand-- it's perpetuating the idea that you gotta be for/against one/the other here. That there isn't room for both (there _is_).
> 
> I, for one, who've been involved in several headache-inducing arguments in chat recently defending FAs against people who use the word as an insult, am getting really tired of the for-us-or-against-us atmosphere. Doesn't have to be like that.
> 
> Which is the whole point, isn't it? Under all the fighting I see a fair amount of agreement about having space for all. But maybe not all in the same thread.


Very good points, Liz. I don't believe it has to be either/or, either. It's too easy to translate things through a filter that is very different than how the words are meant in heated discussions, and it only seems to increase the polarization that already exists sometimes.


ripley said:


> I am sorry if I missed the point, but to me (and perhaps I'm responding to more than just your post) it seems like a lot is blamed on women who "don't like their bodies/fat/whatever"....and I think that is the wrong road to go down, in terms of Size Acceptance.


You want to call it blame, fine, but to me it's more an trend that can be seen, and also insight gained from some posters themselves just from what has been written over the years. Also, it only makes sense; if one is not comfortable with one's own body, having it be the focus -- even in a positive way -- can make a person feel self-conscious and ill at ease. And that's just one perspective.

You can choose to view posts discussing such situations as being negative and as blaming, or see it as part of a greater truth when it comes down to the FA/fat person dynamics that can sometimes exist. *shrug*


----------



## mszwebs

Ernest Nagel said:


> I won't presume to speak for Stan. In fact I disagree with him re the need for SSBBW to have their privacy. They're duly and clearly entitled, imo. That said, it does hurt to feel untrusted in a relationship; especially when you feel you've proven yourself trustworthy over and over again.
> 
> I don't know if that's where Stan is coming from? If it is I thinkperhaps he deserves a little more empathy than I'm seeing here. He doesn't need me to defend him but he's had my back on more than one occasion. In fact I've seen him advocate for the misunderstood time and again. I've often seen his hand reach out to comfort a lot of people who might've felt abandoned otherwise. Wherever he's coming from on this and whether I agree with him or not I am obliged to respect him for having the courage of his convictions.
> 
> If he made his point rather badly it stands out because he usually nails it. I've seen people here with thousands of posts who've yet once to make good sense. I hope we're not also saddling him with unfair expectations? :bow:
> 
> This thread moved me to change my siggy to an old fave, btw.




No. He doesn't. 

Not when he equates the issues I choose not to share with the general population to choosing a toilet seat cover.

Edit: Justin, you're right. My bad...and my apologies to Stan in misreading that comment. HOWEVER, the rest of my post stands as is.


----------



## Chimpi

To quote him directly...



fa_man_stan said:


> For those of you who think I'm just some old married chauvinistic FA who doesn't understand this community, doesn't empathize with the women on these boards and only thinks about his penis and the penises of other FAs and just rants and is full of shit...
> 
> Fuck You.



He's saying it to people that think that of him.
He's not telling all the women here to fuck off. It's not a blanket statement in regards to all super sized women. It's a blanket statement to those that think he's a "chauvinistic FA who doesn't understand the community, empathize with the women and only things about his penis and other FA penises".
... If you're a person that sees that in him, well, then I suppose he's telling you (in general 'you') to fuck off.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Ernest Nagel said:


> I won't presume to speak for Stan. In fact I disagree with him re the need for SSBBW to have their privacy. They're duly and clearly entitled, imo. That said, it does hurt to feel untrusted in a relationship; especially when you feel you've proven yourself trustworthy over and over again.
> 
> I don't know if that's where Stan is coming from? If it is I think perhaps he deserves a little more empathy than I'm seeing here. He doesn't need me to defend him but he's had my back on more than one occasion. In fact I've seen him advocate for the misunderstood time and again. I've often seen his hand reach out to comfort a lot of people who might've felt abandoned otherwise. Wherever he's coming from on this and whether I agree with him or not I am obliged to respect him for having the courage of his convictions.
> 
> If he made his point rather badly it stands out because he usually nails it. I've seen people here with thousands of posts who've yet once to make good sense. I hope we're not also saddling him with unfair expectations? :bow:
> 
> This thread moved me to change my siggy to an old fave, btw.



When I was a kid my little sister used to follow me everywhere. She was just fascinated with everything I did and trailed me like a shadow, got on my nerves at times. She even wanted to come into the bathroom with me. She couldn't understand why I would push her away, slam the door and she couldn't come in. She'd hang around the door making a ruckus, screeching into the door jam and flick the lights on and off. Drove me crazy. She figured, "We're both girls and have the same equipment. Why can't I belong? Why cant' I be a part of the secret?" She felt snubbed. It's not about belonging or being trusted or dissed or any of that. It is about boundaries. I'm astonished at how much anguish it is being poured out about all this. This isn't personal.


----------



## Donna

fa_man_stan said:


> All rightee then... (uh... guys, just keep silent otherwise you are going to get a flogging like I'm receiving at the moment...)
> 
> 
> Here is another little conspiracy for ya'll.
> 
> 
> Once upon a time there was this FA who wanted to get a tattoo. He was a member of this community which he believed supported his preference in large sized women. One day the opportunity arose where he could appear on television to get a tattoo and show his support for this community and size acceptance. He knew he'd have to ask the owner of this community for permission to mention this community on TV so he asked. The FA received no response... nada... zilch... jackshit. So when it came time to go onto this television show the producers again tried to contact the owner of this community. As before, they received no reply. The FA was not permitted to mention this community on television. He was able to promote another fat acceptance organization, which didn't particularly give a rat's ass about his kind anyway. A few weeks later the owner of this FAs community wrote him a letter, a very nice cordial friendly letter. The owner informed the FA that he didn't approve of tattoos and refused to have his community associated with this sort of activity. The FA thanked the owner for his belated acknowledgement, and chalked up the situation as another one of life's lessions.
> 
> I know... This is yet another tale of intrigue from some little annoying FA troublemaker who is making it inconvient to conduct the important business of Dimensions. You big beautiful ladies have more important things to do, like discuss hygene issues... or which stores have the cutest super-sized toilet seat covers.
> 
> 
> For those of you who think I'm just some old married chauvinistic FA who doesn't understand this community, doesn't empathize with the women on these boards and only thinks about his penis and the penises of other FAs and just rants and is full of shit...
> 
> Fuck You.
> 
> 
> The next time you ladies complain that there aren't any "good" intelligent men (FAs) around that appreciate or understand your situation, who are worthy of your affections... do a little soul searching. Maybe you are part of the problem.



How is Conrad's refusal to have Dimensions promoted to an audience outside the SA community a conspiracy? 

For the record, Stan, "good and intelligent men" generally do not resort to sarcasm and the use of obscenities when confronted. At least none of the FAs I know and have had the pleasure of hanging around.


----------



## NancyGirl74

Stan is angry. He has a right to his anger. I can relate and respect that.

On the other hand, once the air clears on this I hope that Stan and other FAs as well who feel as he does come to see that there are things like Rebecca's story that SHOULDN'T be fodder for others to gawk at (Thank you, Rebecca for bravely sharing your story). That is no mark against people who are supporters and friends. It is a matter of respect for privacy. We all come to Dimensions because of fat in one way or another. Those of us who are SSBBWs with "unpretty" issues don't really want to broadcast them to the very men we want to admire us. Its more than secrets and toilet seat discussions. Some of these issues are very serious, deeply personal, and highly embarrassing. I don't want to share then with the guy I'm crushing on or the guy I flirted with in chat the other night. I want to share then with my peers who can say, "I've been there, done that, and I can help." In no way, shape, or form does it have to do with not valuing FAs. If anything, it's because we _do_ value what you guys think of us that we don't want to share these not-so-pretty moments with you.


----------



## furious styles

this thread just makes it seem like we all opened the can of worms with a chainsaw. could've been handled soooo much better. 

stan is my buddy, not a bad guy. he took issue with something that was barely grazing into what his _actual_ beef was. then proceeded to be human about it. angry is ugly. i've done it myself before. he's not a psychopath and doesn't lack empathy. after being quiet for such a long time, he made a comment that was way out of bounds because his intention was to make a resonating impression.

this thread really just makes me sad, but i can't say i didn't see it coming. two different issues, crossing over where they shouldn't. wrong place, wrong time.

it's a fitting analogy to the forum really. what we have is a size acceptance forum attempting to co-exist peacefully with a fat fetishism forum. they skirmish on the border using snarky comments as ammunition, and over time seem to develop a deep resentment for each other. i don't see another private subsection as the answer, i see one single forum trying to be too many different things, and the resulting friction.


----------



## Jack Skellington

LillyBBBW said:


> It's not about belonging or being trusted or dissed or any of that. It is about boundaries. I'm astonished at how much anguish it is being poured out about all this. This isn't personal.



I think this is a perfect analogy and sums it up nicely.

To the male FAs that want to be good guys and supportive of ssbbws, support them in their need for privacy in these *very* personal matters.


----------



## phatfatgirl

Thank you very much Rebecca for sharing your experience with us.  

And that in itself explains how and why we needed a ssbbw forum.


----------



## Miss Vickie

Rebecca, I'm so sorry you had to go through this, and even worse, to go through it alone. I went through it to a way lesser degree, and yeah... it's awful. It's embarrassing and painful and you fear you'll never get rid of it. But sadder, still, is the fact that you didn't feel you had any place private to go to get support. That makes me sad -- for you, and for this community, because I think support for these kinds of situations is exactly what we should be providing for each other. And can I just say? I wanna smack that nurse. Right upside her skinny little head. 

Stan, I've always appreciated your posts, even when I've disagreed with you and felt you were a little too hard on your wife after she lost weight. But you still seemed like a stand up guy who truly cared about fat women. I guess I don't understand how that guy could make such a dismissive comment as you did about the needs of the super size women here. Are you THAT upset by being left out that you'd belittle their needs? And by the way, do you realize that by making that comment you pretty much validated their need for such a private space -- so they can be free of judgment such as yours??

I wasn't invited to be part of the board, but I have absolutely no hard feelings about that. It's not something that would necessarily help me, and while I'd like to be part of it if for no other reason than maybe to offer some medical insight if needed, I respect their desire for a private space. It doesn't matter to me why they need it. They need not justify it to me, nor do I think to anyone else. The very fact that they say they need it is enough for them to have my wholehearted support. It doesn't harm me that there is a place where things that are none of my business are discussed; I guess I don't understand how that would harm anyone. There are still lots of forums and threads to visit here at Dimensions. Why the fuss about this one?

I guess I don't get it. I'm sorry, I want to understand why you're so upset but I really can't.


----------



## stan_der_man

AnnMarie said:


> ...
> 
> I feel Stan's frustration at certain things, but equating that frustration to the SS board is misplaced - they're birds of a different feather....



http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=759939&postcount=206


Thanks AnnMarie, I think your post summed up where I was coming from and rightfully stated what was inappropriate.



First and foremost I appologize to you Rebecca and the others in the SSBBW group whom I offended. All the things I ended up throwing together in my rant not only deviated from the topic, but my ending statements deteriorated into an outright insult for which I am sorry and regret saying in the manner I did. It takes years to build a reputation and only minutes to destroy. Again, for what it is worth, I fully support the idea of a secured discussion group for SSBBWS and I have no question as to the necessity of such a group. But I also believe that the concerns of males and FAs should not necessarily be considered secondary within the Dimensions community.


----------



## Ample Pie

Thank you for the apology, but it's really sad, Stan, that your comments set it up as an Us v. Them thing. I hope it isn't a lasting effect. To see two valid points get buried in bitterness is unfortunate.



fa_man_stan said:


> http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=759939&postcount=206
> 
> 
> Thanks AnnMarie, I think your post summed up where I was coming from and rightfully stated what was inappropriate.
> 
> 
> 
> First and foremost I appologize to you Rebecca and the others in the SSBBW group whom I offended. All the things I ended up throwing together in my rant not only deviated from the topic, but my ending statements deteriorated into an outright insult for which I am sorry and regret saying in the manner I did. It takes years to build a reputation and only minutes to destroy. Again, for what it is worth, I fully support the idea of a secured discussion group for SSBBWS and I have no question as to the necessity of such a group. But I also believe that the concerns of males and FAs should not necessarily be considered secondary within the Dimensions community.


----------



## exile in thighville

rebecca wins.

and lovebhms ;-)


----------



## exile in thighville

LoveBHMS said:


> I have to somewhat disagree with this. (And you know you're one of my favorite posters and we are sympatico on a lot of stuff..)
> 
> If somebody has a strong fantasy or fetish-y leaning, I don't think they can be 'scared straight' out of having it. Some people think and practice the freaky stuff in safe, sane, consensual manners. Some either don't or can't. As you've posted elsewhere, it's just in the DNA and nobody who has it can explain it or probably _wants to_ explain it. Some people's heads just go to very extreme and very dark places. There are people who like spanking and handcuffs, and those for whom nothing short of having a dungeon full of slaves is going to satisfy them. There are men who love Hustler's "Barely Legal" and men who are straight up pedophiles. There are feeders who enjoy stuffing fried cheesecake into somebody's mouth (yes..fried cheesecake is REAL) and pinching several inches on a partner's body and also feeders for whom only an immobile filth covered partner will do. In none of these examples are the very dark types going to be jarred out of it by being reminded that somebody could get HURT.
> 
> I think it's also unfair to expect these women to essentially put their troubles on display because it might help somebody else.



i hear you. i meant more like, maybe they'd be unlikelier to manipulate naive proto-feedees, but i agree this is going out a limb longer than my dong.


----------



## Mini

exile in thighville said:


> i hear you. i meant more like, maybe they'd be unlikelier to manipulate naive proto-feedees, but i agree this is going out a limb longer than my dong.



Five inches?


----------



## LoveBHMS

Mini said:


> Five inches?



How do you know?


----------



## Mini

LoveBHMS said:


> How do you know?



College is for experimentation.


----------



## ThatFatGirl

Mini said:


> College is for experimentation.



A ha! Well now we know the answer to this.


----------



## Webmaster

mfdoom said:


> ...what we have is a size acceptance forum attempting to co-exist peacefully with a fat fetishism forum....



You know, I looked at that statement and looked at it and thought I'd just let it go, but I can't. 

See, ever since the early 1980s I've been fighting against this very perception: there's size acceptance, and there's those pesky men who want fat women. One side pursues noble civil rights issues, the others are disreputable fetishists.

Dimensions' whole reason for coming into being was showing that the men who so happen to prefer fat women are an integral part of the picture, and to help the two sides learn about each other. Fat people and those who support and admire them are one. We fight for the same things. We complement each other. Sure, men and women are different and express their desires in different ways, but as far as pursuing size acceptance and showing the world that fat people are human beings just as valuable, sexy, and deserving of respect as anyone else, we seek the same.

There is no room for a bunker mentality on any side. We need to open up to one another and learn and appreciate. The stakes can be high, but the rewards higher.


----------



## LoveBHMS

Webmaster said:


> You know, I looked at that statement and looked at it and thought I'd just let it go, but I can't.
> 
> See, ever since the early 1980s I've been fighting against this very perception: there's size acceptance, and there's those pesky men who want fat women. One side pursues noble civil rights issues, the others are disreputable fetishists.
> 
> Dimensions' whole reason for coming into being was showing that the men who so happen to prefer fat women are an integral part of the picture, and to help the two sides learn about each other. Fat people and those who support and admire them are one. We fight for the same things. We complement each other. Sure, men and women are different and express their desires in different ways, but as far as pursuing size acceptance and showing the world that fat people are human beings just as valuable, sexy, and deserving of respect as anyone else, we seek the same.
> 
> There is no room for a bunker mentality on any side. We need to open up to one another and learn and appreciate. The stakes can be high, but the rewards higher.



*The fetishists are not necessarily male.*

As weird as i feel disagreeing with you, since obviously it's your site, i agree that there are two factions here. Having a particular sexual fetish or interest or orientation doesn't always have anything to do with civil rights or social change.

I recently dated somebody younger. The fact of him being a MILFHunter (a man with a sexual fetish for older women) in no way means he has any interest in joining the Grey Panthers or the AARP. Human sexuality is innate and personal. 

I don't in any way believe there is a good or a bad, but in many cases, the interests are not the same. We had a discussion on the Weight Board where a poster wrote about having some weight/size related fetishes, one of which was squashing. Several women became angry with him and said that being asked to participate in that activity made them feel big or unwieldy or awkward. Another male added that women might feel "unfeminine or unlovely" being asked to sit on/squash a male partner. But from a sexual standpoint, it was clear there were two different discussions--one was a man saying what sexually excites him and others basically giving him dating advice regarding fat women. It was pretty obvious he wanted somebody whose sexuality matched his---in other words a SSBBW who was excited by the thought of squashing/smother a male partner.

I pointed out that for some, fat is a sexual thing. Some have fetishes regarding size, feeding, weight gain, squashing, face sitting, etc. Those people may have little or no interest in joining NAAFA or wondering about whether Old Navy is carrying a particular size.


----------



## LoveBHMS

Mini said:


> College is for experimentation.



Embedded somewhere in this post is the single best weight gain fiction story EVER.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

Thank you for what you said, Conrad. I don't disagree but I think LoveBHMS has a valid point. There are two distinctly separate male constituencies that frequent this site. One group of us ( The True FA's, whatever that means?) strenuously resents being broadbrushed with the other (fetishists, feeders, wankers, etc.).

We are not all booty blind, sticky fisted pic mongers! If women can't take the time to tell the difference is it unreasonable to ask for the benefit of a doubt? I realize this is very problematic. I have a hearing impairment. Sometimes I have to ask people to repeat themselves. If they don't know me they can assume I'm having a comprehension problem, that I'm slow, rather than hearing impaired. The thing is I can tell someone I'm hearing impaired and they're not likely to doubt me. I can tell someone I'm not a fetishist, not obsessed with her fat and never be fully trusted. How much does that suck?

No one likes being mischaracterized or stereotyped. I realize I'm creating a somewhat artificial dichotomy here but true FA's don't like fetishists anymore than BBW do. I just want BBW to understand there is a large contingent of men who respect and treasure you as human beings. We regard your size as a welcomed and beautiful bonus. You are not a FAT woman to us. You are a WOMAN who is attractive. 

I accept that you may need some time to tell us apart. I guess all I'm asking is that you don't decide which is which before you know a little bit about us. Because I'm here on Dims, because I approach you in a roomful of skinny women, because I might occasionally like you on top does not make me a wanking fetishist! So I will give up my "bunker mentality" if the girls who have one will agree to give up their _wanker_ mentality. :bow:


----------



## LoveBHMS

> No one likes being mischaracterized or stereotyped. I realize I'm creating a somewhat artificial dichotomy here but true FA's don't like fetishists anymore than BBW do. I just want BBW to understand there is a large contingent of men who respect and treasure you as human beings. We regard your size as a welcomed and beautiful bonus. You are not a FAT woman to us. You are a WOMAN who is attractive.
> 
> I accept that you may need some time to tell us apart. I guess all I'm asking is that you don't decide which is which before you know a little bit about us. Because I'm here on Dims, because I approach you in a roomful of skinny women, because I might occasionally like you on top does not make me a wanking fetishist! So I will give up my "bunker mentality" if the girls who have one will agree to give up their wanker mentality.



I said there was a difference, not that one was bad/sick/weird/worth of disdain.

I'd love to know what you have against fetishists. The fact of somebody having a sexual fetish does not make them a bad person; it's not a reflection of character at all. What makes you good or bad is _behaviour,_ not orientation. Rude behaviour with a non-like minded person is offensive and wrong. Activity or talk between consenting adults, whether or not others understand it or are disturbed by it, is not wrong.

There are women, and men, for whom their fat or a partner's (real or imagined) fat is a sexual thing. It's not true for everyone, and if it is or is not true of you does not mean you're better or worse for it.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Ernest Nagel said:


> Thank you for what you said, Conrad. I don't disagree but I think LoveBHMS has a valid point. There are two distinctly separate male constituencies that frequent this site. One group of us ( The True FA's, whatever that means?) strenuously resents being broadbrushed with the other (fetishists, feeders, wankers, etc.).
> 
> We are not all booty blind, sticky fisted pic mongers! If women can't take the time to tell the difference is it unreasonable to ask for the benefit of a doubt? I realize this is very problematic. I have a hearing impairment. Sometimes I have to ask people to repeat themselves. If they don't know me they can assume I'm having a comprehension problem, that I'm slow, rather than hearing impaired. The thing is I can tell someone I'm hearing impaired and they're not likely to doubt me. I can tell someone I'm not a fetishist, not obsessed with her fat and never be fully trusted. How much does that suck?
> 
> No one likes being mischaracterized or stereotyped. I realize I'm creating a somewhat artificial dichotomy here but true FA's don't like fetishists anymore than BBW do. I just want BBW to understand there is a large contingent of men who respect and treasure you as human beings. We regard your size as a welcomed and beautiful bonus. *You are not a FAT woman to us. You are a WOMAN who is attractive. *
> 
> I accept that you may need some time to tell us apart. I guess all I'm asking is that you don't decide which is which before you know a little bit about us. Because I'm here on Dims, because I approach you in a roomful of skinny women, because I might occasionally like you on top does not make me a wanking fetishist! So I will give up my "bunker mentality" if the girls who have one will agree to give up their _wanker_ mentality. :bow:



Far be it from me to speak on behalf of anyone else but along the same vein, I don't think of FA's as FA's but as men. There are nice ones, silly ones, awful ones, etc. And we all coexist here and by golly sometimes I have to slap someone's hand away. To acknowledge this should not be taken as an affont to all men. Can it be alright to say, "I don't like it when FA's....[enter annoying thing here]...." without the entire contingency of men here getting alarmed? Lets replace the term FA with MEN. Does it go down a little easier as if to say we're not lumping you all in the same grinder?


----------



## Ernest Nagel

LoveBHMS said:


> I said there was a difference, not that one was bad/sick/weird/worth of disdain.
> 
> I'd love to know what you have against fetishists. The fact of somebody having a sexual fetish does not make them a bad person; it's not a reflection of character at all. What makes you good or bad is _behaviour,_ not orientation. Rude behaviour with a non-like minded person is offensive and wrong. Activity or talk between consenting adults, whether or not others understand it or are disturbed by it, is not wrong.
> 
> There are women, and men, for whom their fat or a partner's (real or imagined) fat is a sexual thing. It's not true for everyone, and if it is or is not true of you does not mean you're better or worse for it.



First, I stake no claim to being better than anyone. I also realize that it isn't necessarily true that fetishists objectify their partners but it seems that is very often the case. I happen to believe that relating to anyone as other than a whole human being _is_ wrong. JMO. I find that _most_ women, not just BBW resent being related to or desired for only their physicality. I do too, quite frankly (not that its ever happened. LOL). 

All I'm asking is that women differentiate. Want a fetishist? Cool, I'm not one. No problem. Don't want a fetishist? Please don't assume all FA's are. That's all.

To Lilly's point, um yeah, FA's are men. Unfortunately we are indistinguishable on the surface from other men who may have some very undesirable (for some women) characteristics. It's the old "if it wanks (sic) like a duck..." thing. If it frequents, Dims, if it goes to bashes, if it states a preference for larger women... I'll just be honest. I don't like how many women have stated that they avoid FA's. I think it's unfair. Nobody's saying they avoid MEN because of a bad experience with the ones who like women, are they? So let's just say everyone's different, respect that and leave it be.


----------



## Ruby Ripples

Ernest Nagel said:


> Thank you for what you said, Conrad. I don't disagree but I think LoveBHMS has a valid point. There are two distinctly separate male constituencies that frequent this site. One group of us ( The True FA's, whatever that means?) strenuously resents being broadbrushed with the other (fetishists, feeders, wankers, etc.).
> 
> We are not all booty blind, sticky fisted pic mongers! If women can't take the time to tell the difference is it unreasonable to ask for the benefit of a doubt? I realize this is very problematic. I have a hearing impairment. Sometimes I have to ask people to repeat themselves. If they don't know me they can assume I'm having a comprehension problem, that I'm slow, rather than hearing impaired. The thing is I can tell someone I'm hearing impaired and they're not likely to doubt me. I can tell someone I'm not a fetishist, not obsessed with her fat and never be fully trusted. How much does that suck?
> 
> No one likes being mischaracterized or stereotyped. I realize I'm creating a somewhat artificial dichotomy here but true FA's don't like fetishists anymore than BBW do. I just want BBW to understand there is a large contingent of men who respect and treasure you as human beings. We regard your size as a welcomed and beautiful bonus. You are not a FAT woman to us. You are a WOMAN who is attractive.
> 
> I accept that you may need some time to tell us apart. I guess all I'm asking is that you don't decide which is which before you know a little bit about us. Because I'm here on Dims, because I approach you in a roomful of skinny women, because I might occasionally like you on top does not make me a wanking fetishist! So I will give up my "bunker mentality" if the girls who have one will agree to give up their _wanker_ mentality. :bow:



You have by this post put fetishists and what you call "true FAs" into two completely different groups, why? Why can't a "true FA" have a fetish too? Are "true FAs" fetishless completely, or just do they only not have a fat fetish, but are allowed a non-fat related one, such as .. BDSM for example? That is so incorrect. One of my best friends married her boyfriend last year. He loves her dearly, he is ALWAYS aware of any situations that may crop up due to her weight. He spent days converting their camper van so that she could use the bathroom, fit behind the breakfast table, get in and out of the bed comfortably. He gave her food, nutrition, vitamin and supplement advice two years ago which has resulted in her now being off any diabetes medication for over a year, for the first time in MANY years, and also her knees pain her less than they have done in years. She is healthier, very happy, very loved and cherished. They connect on ALL levels, not just a fat one. Her husband also happens to be a feeder. What you would call a fetishist? What I would call a TRUE FA. Her health and happiness are foremost in his life. 

Do "true FAs" not become hard at images or stories in here? Or God forbid, ever masturbate to something they read or saw here? There is very little black and white here, Id say there are mostly grey areas. So rather than creating a "somewhat artificial dichotomy", I believe you have created an almost completly artificial one. 

You don't know what is going on in the head of one of your "true FA" buddies, he might well have an extreme feeding fetish with fantasies of massive weight gain, and a side order of forced feminization/humiliation desire, just for good measure. He might secretly masturbate to this site every day. You don't know though. And you're even less likely to now, following the post you just made. Fetishists, feeders and wankers as you put it, are VERY often good, respectful, considerate FAs, who Im sure resent you placing them in the naughty corner while you put yourself and your chosen few on a pedestal. 

Your last two paragraphs I find to be teeth-grindingly patronising. Why not give US, the actual BBWS and SSBBWS (and BHMs and BBHMs while we're at it) the credit for being able to work out for ourselves who respects us as people, and who does not, we don't actually need instruction in it. If a man approaches me at a party, the first thing I assume is that he would like to chat to me, NOT because Im fat, but because there is something he liked about me, or found interesting. I'd hazard a guess that most of the women here wouldn't assume that the man talking to them was doing so because he was getting a hard-on at her fat. I might however wonder with an internal chuckle if the man who fetched a plate of food from the buffet for his slim girlfriend might be an "encourager" under the surface. We get asked to dance by and chatted with also by men and women who are not FAs. This happens too in our daily everyday interactions with shop workers, transport drivers, colleagues etc, being treated with normal friendliness, civility and respect. This happens much more than derision or abuse does.

I guess my point is, I don't get why you have here and some other FAs have repeatedly, tried to point out something that should be expected from anyone decent, not just FAs, ie. you like us for more than our fat. 

Please don't be so hard on fetishists, theyre mostly "good guys" too. 

ps. Something to think about.... have you EVER stopped to wonder if some bbws and ssbbws don't have fetishes too ?





LoveBHMS said:


> I said there was a difference, not that one was bad/sick/weird/worth of disdain.
> 
> I'd love to know what you have against fetishists. The fact of somebody having a sexual fetish does not make them a bad person; it's not a reflection of character at all. What makes you good or bad is _behaviour,_ not orientation. Rude behaviour with a non-like minded person is offensive and wrong. Activity or talk between consenting adults, whether or not others understand it or are disturbed by it, is not wrong.
> 
> There are women, and men, for whom their fat or a partner's (real or imagined) fat is a sexual thing. It's not true for everyone, and if it is or is not true of you does not mean you're better or worse for it.



Hear, hear.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Ruby Ripples said:


> You have by this post put fetishists and what you call "true FAs" into two completely different groups, why? Why can't a "true FA" have a fetish too? Are "true FAs" fetishless completely, or just do they only not have a fat fetish, but are allowed a non-fat related one, such as .. BDSM for example? That is so incorrect. One of my best friends married her boyfriend last year. He loves her dearly, he is ALWAYS aware of any situations that may crop up due to her weight. He spent days converting their camper van so that she could use the bathroom, fit behind the breakfast table, get in and out of the bed comfortably. He gave her food, nutrition, vitamin and supplement advice two years ago which has resulted in her now being off any diabetes medication for over a year, for the first time in MANY years, and also her knees pain her less than they have done in years. She is healthier, very happy, very loved and cherished. They connect on ALL levels, not just a fat one. Her husband also happens to be a feeder. What you would call a fetishist? What I would call a TRUE FA. Her health and happiness are foremost in his life.
> 
> Do "true FAs" not become hard at images or stories in here? Or God forbid, ever masturbate to something they read or saw here? There is very little black and white here, Id say there are mostly grey areas. So rather than creating a "somewhat artificial dichotomy", I believe you have created an almost completly artificial one.
> 
> You don't know what is going on in the head of one of your "true FA" buddies, he might well have an extreme feeding fetish with fantasies of massive weight gain, and a side order of forced feminization/humiliation desire, just for good measure. He might secretly masturbate to this site every day. You don't know though. And you're even less likely to now, following the post you just made. Fetishists, feeders and wankers as you put it, are VERY often good, respectful, considerate FAs, who Im sure resent you placing them in the naughty corner while you put yourself and your chosen few on a pedestal.
> 
> Your last two paragraphs are teeth-grindingly patronising. Why not give US, the actual BBWS and SSBBWS (and BHMs and BBHMs while we're at it) the credit for being able to work out for ourselves who respects us as people, and who does not, we don't actually need instruction in it. If a man approaches me at a party, the first thing I assume is that he would like to chat me, NOT because Im fat, but because he something he liked about me, or found interesting. I'd hazard a guess that most of the women here wouldn't assume that the man talking to them was doing so because he was getting a hard-on at her fat. I might however wonder with an internal chuckle if the man who fetched a plate of food from the buffet for his slim girlfriend might be an "encourager" under the surface. We get asked to dance by and chatted with also by men and women who are not FAs. This happens too in our daily everyday interactions with shop workers, transport drivers, colleagues etc. This happens much more than derision or abuse.
> 
> I guess my point is, I don't get why you have here and some other FAs have repeatedly, tried to point out something that should be expected from anyone decent, ie. you like us for more than our fat.
> 
> Please don't be so hard on fetishists, theyre mostly "good guys" too.
> 
> ps. Something to think about.... have you EVER stopped to wonder if some bbws and ssbbws don't have fetishes too ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hear, hear.



I agree. There are good men and bad men. FA shouldn't be an automatic stamp on the forhead that says bad, and neither should it do the same for someone with a fetish.


----------



## Jack Skellington

Ernest Nagel said:


> I can tell someone I'm not a fetishist, not obsessed with her fat and never be fully trusted. How much does that suck?



I certainly agree that there is a distinct difference between preference and fetish and I am repping you for that. There is a difference between a guy that prefers fuller figures to one that has fantasies of tying a woman up and shoving donuts down her throat.

Now getting back to the issues of trust, it's not that women think all the men here are fetishists or would get off on their suffering. Obviously, some do and they do need a safe place to discuss certain issues in privacy, which I know you agree with.

Now to the men here they do trust and are still offended by this: 

Take a step back and realize *this is not about you * or not trusting you or not wanting or appreciating your support. It's about them and their needs for privacy to discuss certain issues with other women.


----------



## imfree

Jack Skellington said:


> I certainly agree that there is a distinct difference between preference and fetish and I am repping you for that. There is a difference between a guy that prefers fuller figures to one that has fantasies of tying a woman up and shoving donuts down her throat.
> 
> Now getting back to the issues of trust, it's not that women think all the men here are fetishes are would get off on their suffering. Obviously, some do and they do need a safe place to discuss certain issues in privacy, which I know you agree with.
> 
> Now to the men here they do trust and are still offended by this:
> 
> Take a step back and realize *this is not about you * or not trusting you or not wanting or appreciating your support. It's about them and their needs for privacy to discuss certain issues with other women.



I agree completely. I have empathy because I deal with
some similar physical issues and would feel better
discussing such issues in a private forum, with other
BHM's, myself.


----------



## Ample Pie

Everyone gets a free slate with me. I don't put my guard up until I'm given cause. I may be wrong or I may be right, but unfortunately my internal gage is all I have. I've had it my whole life (as has anyone) and I've honed it over years via my experience and via what I know strictly by the laws of average--which is to say even if I meet a streak of asswipes, my brain knows that not all people can possibly be asswipes (at least I freaking hope). So it's emotion tinted with reason and tested over 32 years. It may not be perfect, but it's all I have.

Decent people come in all shapes, size, predilections, and [even] fetishes--sometimes they just aren't easy to find. Not all women hate FAs just like not all FAs are hate-worthy.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

Jack Skellington said:


> Take a step back and realize *this is not about you * or not trusting you or not wanting or appreciating your support. It's about them and their needs for privacy to discuss certain issues with other women.



Never questioned the need for the SSBBW Forum nor that it should be private; winced a bit on the "females only" but I get it. My original rant was basically about BBW's distrusting/stereotyping FA's. Maybe it was too off topic for this thread?

Since it's been raised here I'll simply make my point and let this go. I know the "company line" on fetishes but isn't it a little naïve to pretend that it's not a common concern among BBW? Maybe even a justifiable one? This is really more about who can and can't be trusted than fetishes. That does affect me and every other FA here to some degree.

Look, I really don't care what anyone other than my partner and I are into. I do expect a prospective partner to be upfront about any "unusual requirements" and I of course feel obliged to state the same. If someone can convince me that the fetishists here all fly their freak flags proudly to anyone they're interested in, I've got no problem with that. If you want to masquerade as a bread-and-butter, garden-variety FA until well into the relationship, as I've often heard happens, well then yeah, I do have a problem with that. Same problem I have with lying. 

So I hope that clears that up? I'm not anti-fetishist, just _anti-bullshit_. Tell the truth up front or as soon as it's appropriate. If that were happening though I really don't know if we'd have as many FA-shy BBW as we do?

Just btw, Re fetishes and the whole "consenting adults" thing. If your kink is a condition of the relationship, where's the consent? It's _take it or leave it_, isn't it really? 

And Ruby I hope you don't find it too condescending that I'm asking men _and_ women to be honest about something that could be a big factor in a relationship. Or should I just give women credit for being able to read minds, too?


----------



## LoveBHMS

> Just btw, Re fetishes and the whole "consenting adults" thing. If your kink is a condition of the relationship, where's the consent? It's take it or leave it, isn't it really?



Right. That is what consent means. Pretty much any relationship is going to be conditional on one or more levels.

Humans are sexual beings. The drive to fulfill ones sexuality is, i'd say, as strong as any other biological imperative. People lose jobs, families, and personal freedom in pursuit of it.

Wanting a relationship and having a fetish are not exclusive. Some men (or women) have fetishes but for some reason don't share them with a partner. They troll the internet or go to professional sex workers or meet men in airport bathrooms. i'm sure this happens for any number of reasons including shame, desire to keep the partner from 'the bad stuff', and a partner's inability or lack of desire to fulfill a fetish.

So let's say you're a man. You have a squashing fetish. The only way you can orgasm or feel totally fulfilled is by having a SSBBW jump up and down and land on you. Most, or all of your porn collection and website visits are looking at videos of face sitting, lap sitting, and squashing. You're a nice normal person, attractive, honest, decent person. How do you go about meeting a potential partner while ensuring that you can get your very unique needs met within a relationship? Being honest and upfront is great, but maybe you risk somebody being put off by it. Maybe she's into it too but want to ensure you really like her. It's somewhat complicated.

I'm not suggesting lying, but it's not fair to paint all fetishists and the way they go about finding like minded partners as bad people.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

LoveBHMS said:


> Right. That is what consent means. Pretty much any relationship is going to be conditional on one or more levels.
> 
> Humans are sexual beings. The drive to fulfill ones sexuality is, i'd say, as strong as any other biological imperative. People lose jobs, families, and personal freedom in pursuit of it.
> 
> Wanting a relationship and having a fetish are not exclusive. Some men (or women) have fetishes but for some reason don't share them with a partner. They troll the internet or go to professional sex workers or meet men in airport bathrooms. i'm sure this happens for any number of reasons including shame, desire to keep the partner from 'the bad stuff', and a partner's inability or lack of desire to fulfill a fetish.
> 
> So let's say you're a man. You have a squashing fetish. The only way you can orgasm or feel totally fulfilled is by having a SSBBW jump up and down and land on you. Most, or all of your porn collection and website visits are looking at videos of face sitting, lap sitting, and squashing. You're a nice normal person, attractive, honest, decent person. How do you go about meeting a potential partner while ensuring that you can get your very unique needs met within a relationship? Being honest and upfront is great, but maybe you risk somebody being put off by it. Maybe she's into it too but want to ensure you really like her. It's somewhat complicated.
> 
> *I'm not suggesting lying, but it's not fair to paint all fetishists and the way they go about finding like minded partners as bad people.*



And I'm not suggesting they are bad people. I think it's an unfortunate outgrowth of the moralistic, judgmental society we live in that compels fetishists to feel they need to be so circumspect and guarded about their needs. The thing is though hiding it suggests they think there's something wrong with it, too. 

I'm guessing probably half my friends and family think my preference for SSBBW is a fetish of some kind. The thing is I don't care. I'm comfortable with it, open about it and have never denied it. The thinking about closet FA's is pretty widely known and shared here. Not a lot of sympathy I think you'd have to agree. What's so different about a fetish? I'm not suggesting you broadcast it on 60 Minutes, just be honest as soon as possible. I get that it's complicated. Keeping secrets always gets complicated, especially where loved ones are concerned.

It took me a little bit to sort out my feelings about this. On some levels I'm still working through it. What I'm clear about is that withholding information you know might have substantial impact on a relationship is wrong. I'll grant that sexuality is a powerful force. I'm equally clear that it can coexist with integrity, just as you are that a fetishist can be a good guy.


----------



## furious styles

Webmaster said:


> You know, I looked at that statement and looked at it and thought I'd just let it go, but I can't.
> 
> See, ever since the early 1980s I've been fighting against this very perception: there's size acceptance, and there's those pesky men who want fat women. One side pursues noble civil rights issues, the others are disreputable fetishists.
> 
> Dimensions' whole reason for coming into being was showing that the men who so happen to prefer fat women are an integral part of the picture, and to help the two sides learn about each other. Fat people and those who support and admire them are one. We fight for the same things. We complement each other. Sure, men and women are different and express their desires in different ways, but as far as pursuing size acceptance and showing the world that fat people are human beings just as valuable, sexy, and deserving of respect as anyone else, we seek the same.
> 
> There is no room for a bunker mentality on any side. We need to open up to one another and learn and appreciate. The stakes can be high, but the rewards higher.



I know this, but what you say only confirms the rift. There's a naive misunderstanding coming from both sides that only seems to be getting worse and worse. Coexistence is a nice idea in theory, but to me it seems it will only ever be a shaky/distrustful kind of "truce," holding the place together and keeping it from spilling over into major public incidents.

The problem lies in _why_ people come here. When people come here for such vastly different reasons, they're not always bringing an open mind. Usually an FA can get behind the size acceptance stuff, that's not such a rough transition. That just means supporting fat chicks/dudes. However people who have a foggy idea that FAs even exists, and very little knowledge of fat fetishism, they come here for the size acceptance element and discover a place like the weight board, paysite board, or the story archive, and no doubt leave with their mouth agape. It's probably pretty damn creepy. I'm not saying all of them feel this way; some women/men probably see that stuff and realize that their own sexual fantasies coincide with that kind of stuff, or might think that it sounds intriguing. But if not, I can only imagine their shock and disgust upon digging deeper.

I don't think there's a party in the wrong here. It's a noble thought that the two could support and learn from each other, C. I think that it _has_ happened in the past, perhaps with some of the users here. It's just that the more I see and study the behavioral patterns here, the less I believe that it will often be such a smooth ride.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Ernest Nagel said:


> And I'm not suggesting they are bad people. I think it's an unfortunate outgrowth of the moralistic, judgmental society we live in that compels fetishists to feel they need to be so circumspect and guarded about their needs. The thing is though hiding it suggests they think there's something wrong with it, too.
> 
> I'm guessing probably half my friends and family think my preference for SSBBW is a fetish of some kind. The thing is I don't care. I'm comfortable with it, open about it and have never denied it. The thinking about closet FA's is pretty widely known and shared here. Not a lot of sympathy I think you'd have to agree. What's so different about a fetish? I'm not suggesting you broadcast it on 60 Minutes, just be honest as soon as possible. I get that it's complicated. Keeping secrets always gets complicated, especially where loved ones are concerned.
> 
> It took me a little bit to sort out my feelings about this. On some levels I'm still working through it. What I'm clear about is that withholding information you know might have substantial impact on a relationship is wrong. I'll grant that sexuality is a powerful force. I'm equally clear that it can coexist with integrity, just as you are that a fetishist can be a good guy.



That's not necessarily so. I happen to be turned on by gaining. It's more like a kink than a fetish, like someone who likes to be tied to the bed. If their partner isn't into it it's fine. But I'm an honest in'jun so I would rather have someone hear it from me than to find out about it.

This makes for some interesting interactions though. I've met guys on more than one occassion who volunteered without me asking them that they were normal and not into fetishes, etc. My response is usually something like, Oh really, well just so you know, [bla bla bla fishcakes]. Suddenly they become curious and intrigued so I begin to explain and end by saying, Oh but I won't bother you with it any further, it's really not all that interesting. A few times it has turned out that mister straight arrow was lying and was nearly beside himself to learn that I shared or was at least sympathetic to his kink.

Now I'm not condoning lying. I don't do it and don't like it done to me but I can understand someone wanting to be guarded about something that could cause people they like to run away. It's hard to explain a desire that is a part of you but not really the only part of you that exists. As soon as they hear FEEDER everybody starts running willi nilli in all directions. Nobody likes to be marginalized. I could see someone thinking to themselves, "It is none of her business until it looks like it needs to be." Not that it's right or wrong, just that I can see how it can come about.

As for a fetishist, I can't rightly see how someone can conceal that. If Joe Blow can't get off unless a 600 pound woman sits on his head it is pretty tough to fake out for long. Eventually your beloved is going to wonder why woody is a recluse. A fetishist CAN'T do without his/her fetish. How are they going to fool someone? An out out liar is going to concel that he digs whips and chains and golden showers but most aren't doing it in an effort to lock you in his basement and pour lotion over your head. again, not condoning or condemning, just sharing what little I know.


----------



## butch

There are a few of us (I hope!) that are both fat and FAs. In that respect, I get it all here, and I also get to be in the SSBBW thread because I have the size requirements. I don't know that I have more to add than that (at least at the present moment, lucky you), but even as someone who hits many of the main components of the site (I'm a fat woman, I think fat folks are hot, I even have fat-specific sexual turn ons, which some might label a fetish, and I do not) and even I don't have all my needs met here. In fact, because I occupy a place that is both the objectifier and the objectified, I rarely have my my own life and desires as a fat FFA with fat-specific kinks reflected on the boards. It doesn't mean Dims is trying to exclude people like me or make people like me feel less welcome, Dims is only reflecting the POV of the people invested in the site-in terms of moderating, posting a lot, developing relationships with people through the boards, etc. And that means a place for fat people *and* FAs, primarily.

The point is, it won't ever be a perfect place for any of us. It will aproach that at some time for some people, but, all in all, it reflects life, and life is never neat and clean and clearly marked and divided. When I'm feeling the level of frustration some of you have expressed about the state of fattie love/fattie acceptance, I often realize that the solution to the problem is within me, or so intractable I won't ever get the outcome I want (or I make a fool out of myself in the Clubhouse, c'est la vie). I do think that the need for the labeling can be a disservice not only to folks like me who don't fit the criteria, but everyone, because it allows us to get distracted and resort to generalizations when nuance is required. 

There's been a lot of very interesting and instructive posts in this thread, but I also wanted to echo Tina's point about how significant and thought provoking Conrad's long post was. I think there are some essential points made about FAs and their relationship to SA in there. Thanks for sharing that, Conrad.


----------



## LoveBHMS

> An out out liar is going to concel that he digs whips and chains and golden showers but most aren't doing it in an effort to lock you in his basement and pour lotion over your head. again, not condoning or condemning, just sharing what little I know.



That is a great point Lilly. It's not always done with malice. As you said, it's wrong just because lying/misleading somebody is generally wrong, but if this makes sense, it's not always so ill intentioned.

Also, as Ernest said, some people are horribly repressed (rightly or wrongly) and so a fetish becomes something dark and horrible and can lead to self loathing.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Miss Vickie (this thread is making me go  too much for me to go back and quote it) said something about not being invited to the forum. I just wanted to clarify - the only people actually INVITED to the forum were the women that participated in the original 450+ thread. That was the only criterion used. Now, the forum has a minimum post count and a minimum weight requirement to ensure members are actually supersized. Any woman who fits both of those criteria can be admitted by PMing me, SoVerySoft, or Sandie S-R if they're interested in joining.


----------



## Famouslastwords

Ernest Nagel said:


> BTW, what happened to your smiling Avatar and what is the little question mark by your rep cans?



I don't know what happened to the smiling avatar, but the question mark by his rep cans is his skype. Skype is a voice chat program. It's the equivalent of someone's aim marker.


----------



## LalaCity

wow, Rebecca...

...I would never have the guts to disclose such a difficult, painful experience with such candor...

If your post doesn't put to bed the question of why SSBBW's need a safe, private forum to discuss their issues, I don't know what will...


----------



## TraciJo67

LalaCity said:


> wow, Rebecca...
> 
> ...I would never have the guts to disclose such a difficult, painful experience with such candor...
> 
> If your post doesn't put to bed the question of why SSBBW's need a safe, private forum to discuss their issues, I don't know what will...



Rebecca, I also appreciated your candor in posting what you did. I know that it must have been difficult for you to share, but it absolutely made a difference (at least, it rocked my world). I can't imagine *anyone* reading about your experience and not walking away with a slightly different worldview. And yes, it highlights exactly why a private SSBBW forum is necessary.


----------



## Ample Pie

Thank you both. It was hard for me to put that story here. I cried while I typed it, but I just thought...I guess...that it needed to be done. And I'm glad that it helped people. That part makes me feel okay about how I figuratively and literally let my ass hang out here.


LalaCity said:


> wow, Rebecca...
> 
> ...I would never have the guts to disclose such a difficult, painful experience with such candor...
> 
> If your post doesn't put to bed the question of why SSBBW's need a safe, private forum to discuss their issues, I don't know what will...





TraciJo67 said:


> Rebecca, I also appreciated your candor in posting what you did. I know that it must have been difficult for you to share, but it absolutely made a difference (at least, it rocked my world). I can't imagine *anyone* reading about your experience and not walking away with a slightly different worldview. And yes, it highlights exactly why a private SSBBW forum is necessary.


----------



## SoVerySoft

Rebecca said:


> ....But since you're feeling slighted, here, I'll let you in on a little Super Sized Issue--see if you can refrain from sexualizing it and/or mocking it and/or feeling disgusted by or sorry for me. Seriously...



Rebecca, this is one of the bravest posts I've ever read. I am so sorry you had to go through this, and more appreciative than you'll ever know that you posted this for all to see.

p.s. I know I missed your birthday, but here's a little thank you that I hope will help a little


----------



## Webmaster

Well, I am far more optimistic than you then. I've seen it time and time again, how it all fell into place. I've seen lots of couples find each other and live lifes together. I myself have been lucky enough to find this perfect balance for well over two decades. 

See, these things are not driven by short-term events. Whether or not there's a controversy here and there is, in the long run, not that important. Sure, we learn from it, but the big picture is that people seek each other, and will find each other. And with all these wonderful new communications tools, we have more ways to learn than ever before. So I remain quite optimistic, as I have always been. 



mfdoom said:


> ...I don't think there's a party in the wrong here. It's a noble thought that the two could support and learn from each other, C. I think that it _has_ happened in the past, perhaps with some of the users here. It's just that the more I see and study the behavioral patterns here, the less I believe that it will often be such a smooth ride.


----------



## imfree

Rebecca said:


> I typed my response late last night/early this morning. In it, I think I was even handed and positive. At least, that was my goal. But as I attempted to fall asleep, I thought more and more about Stan's posts and I got angrier and angrier. Then I came here today and...even more insults from someone who I thought was and who obviously desperately wants to be treated as one of the good guys.
> 
> You make light of our issues because you think having our own space takes away from you? Then you take the pissing and moaning sarcasm to the SSBHM thread and carry on over there, again making light of what SSBBWs go through WHILE clogging the SSBHM thread (that you claim to think is important for equality) with petty childish bullshit?
> 
> In the words of the lolcats, Stan, you're doing it wrong. Moreover, I'm angry and deeply hurt. Where I thought I/we had an ally, there is only another man convinced that to give women an inch is to take a foot from men. Good lord.
> 
> Tons of guys come to this forum to meet and get to know SSBBWs, but you know what, so do the SSBBWs. So we like having space here where we can meet and communicate with people who have issues, concerns, and problems that we feel terribly alone in (even if you think they're as laughable as toilet seats). I've seen countless posts from men commenting how they can't find SSBBWs in their areas...guess what! neither can we SSBBWs ourselves. Okay, maybe we should leave dimensions and make our own forum. Is that what you want? Is that what it will take to make you feel like you have enough space and access to everything on Dims? I doubt such an action would really net results most FAs would like. Sincerely. Take away the fatties and what do you have?
> 
> I know that FAs have issues, but, and please correct me if I'm wrong, the one I hear the most has to do with "coming out" as an FA. While I can see that as daunting, it surely as hell isn't an exclusively FA issues. FAs deal with it, so do FFAs, Lesbians, Gay men, Interracial couples, and, hell, even Furries. Maybe the ladies do get bent out of shape every time some guy talks about having to hide his girlfriend from his friends, but, for fuck sake, we're tired of being treated like we're garbage. And anyway, not all the women here jump down the throats of FAs who have a hard time owning up to their preferences and many FAs could even benefit from the myriad of people here on Dimensions who have experience in the "dating people who are not socially acceptable" arena--fat or otherwise.
> 
> On the other hand, the issues that are related to SSBBWs are mostly related JUST to Super Sized Females.
> 
> But since you're feeling slighted, here, I'll let you in on a little Super Sized Issue--see if you can refrain from sexualizing it and/or mocking it and/or feeling disgusted by or sorry for me. Seriously.
> 
> I have really fat thighs. Near my pubic area, my thighs are so fat that they fold over. Also, they meet and constantly rub together (not sexy, remember, just anatomy). My stomach (which has most of my weight) is heavy and hangs down covering my entire pubic area (again, not at all sexy, just a fact). Those are the three fattiest parts of my body and they meet in the middle, sealing out light and cool air. Essentially, they create a sauna like environment for my genitalia. It's always hot and moist there (not sexual, just fact, right).
> 
> About 4 months ago, I developed a yeast infection. Not only did I have the ricotta-like discharge and beer-like scent coming from my vagina, I had the world's worst itch. This itch was intense and soul deep. But, I'm a SSBBW whose stomach and fat thighs block all manual access to that particular area of my body, so I couldn't rightly apply medication.
> 
> And can you imagine, Stan, if I could take time out from talking with other ladies about toilet seats, how it would have felt for me to have to ask someone else to apply medicine to MY vagina--a place I should be able to reach but can't? Can you imagine? (hot, no?)
> 
> So, instead of applying medicine, I changed my diet. I ate a lot of yogurt with active cultures and drank lots of fresh water--in an effort to straighten out my personal flora and fauna and to keep things as fresh as possible. Of course, the other "treating your yeast infection at home" tip was to keep that area dry and cool. Well, I'll be honest with you, nothing sealed up in 300+ lbs of fat is cool or dry. Nothing. It's heavy and hot and humid under my fat and in my folds (not sexy, just anatomy). Now, I suppose I could potentially have put a bunch of pillows under my bum, elevating my stomach and tipping it backward off of my pelvis...then I could have spread my legs wide to keep my fat thighs (which I mentioned ALWAYS touch) separated. (Not sexy, seriously, just fact).
> 
> Maybe then the cool dry air would have reached that part of my body, but I'll tell you that being in that position puts my back out--okay okay, it's all my fault that I'm as big as I am and that the extra weight (and lack of abdominal muscle) has given me a bad back, but seriously, I can't lie in that position for more than a few minutes with out crippling myself. Just can't. So now what?
> 
> All the while, mind you, this horrible itching is going ON AND ON getting worse and worse and I can't reach that far into my vagina to scratch it (actually or metaphorically) and (yet again) I didn't take time out from picking toilet seats to ask someone to scratch my vagina. I know, I know I should be brave enough and confident enough to be able to ask random people to do these things for me, but...alas, I'm kind of shy about my sexual anatomy (not to mention my physical limitations). Freak that I am.
> 
> So, how about the next best thing? I used my shower massager (not for masturbation, this isn't at all sexual, just to relieve a very serious itch. [no, that isn't a euphemism]). Thus, I used warm water to clean myself and alleviate the itch--it actually felt better, for like 5 minutes. Then it all started up again.
> 
> Two days into this, I go to urinate and it burns so badly that I scream out involuntarily and begin to cry. We're talking the worst pain I've ever felt. I'm not sure what's going on. I think "Maybe I've given myself a urinary tract infection while trying to deal with this yeast infection." Of course, I'm not sure, but all I want is to rinse in warm water and be in my bed. The pain, however, gets worse. What I want to do is to look at the area. I want to look at my vagina and see what is making it hurt so badly. I can't though, you know, because I'm super sized. I can't reach it.
> 
> Even when I can use one hand to lift my 300-some pound stomach with one hand (and let me tell you, holding up 300 lbs one handedly is not an easy, carefree chore), I still have to use the other hand to spread apart my fat labia (not sexy, remember, just anatomy, just fact) and then I'm out of fucking hands for holding a mirror. So, instead I contort myself the best way I can and feel blindly around inside as far as I can reach (which isn't far, but I digress). When I do, I feel what feels like (though I can't see it to confirm) an ulcer. In my labia minora. No wonder it hurts to pee.
> 
> So I go to hospital (it's the middle of the night and I'm freaked out.) They put me on a gurney. They stick my feet in the stirrups, then they tell me to slide to the end of the gurney. I don't know about you but I have a hard time moving 426 lbs without the use of my legs, so I take my legs down and use them to scoot me down. The nurse puts my feet back into stirrups, then tells me to move down more. Now, I already explained that I need my feet to do that, but I have to tell her again...which I do, because, face it, most medical professionals, as educated and intelligent as they may be, have NO idea what to do with a body like mine (watch them try to take blood pressure on a really fat arm sometime, it's kind of sad and pathetic).
> 
> Eventually, I get down to the end, with my feet up in the stirrups and my lower half (including my stomach because it hangs so low [not sexy]) is totally exposed. I've told them where it hurts, of course, and to start the exam, the doctor shoves his dry speculum inside of me raking it across the ulcer on my labia. I scream out in pain and the nurse tells me to calm down. Uh, yeah, because I just scream for shits and giggles. Doc says "yeah, that's a yeast infection." then he leaves. Well I already knew that, I wanted to know about the ulcer, so I ask the nurse and she says "you have an ulcer there?" as if I hadn't told her that initially. So she takes another look.
> 
> When she's all done she takes my feet down out of the stirrups. Now, I'm not sure if you're aware of what could happen here but let me simplify. I'm 426 lbs on ONE end of a gurney WITHOUT the benefit of my legs in the air acting as a counterbalance. Did you figure it out? The end of the gurney I was on tipped down and hit the floor and so, lying upon it as I was, did I. I fell to the floor, my bare ass and genitalia smacking disgusting cold floor tile. (I realize this doesn't at all compare with having to tell your mom you like fat chicks and that I should go back to mulling over my toilet seat choices, Stan, but stick with me.) I was in pain (hole in your dick anyone?), embarrassed, and on the floor with my labia mashed on cold gross tile.
> 
> And you know what I had to do then????
> 
> I had to stand up and look that nurse, that thin nurse who has no idea what it's like to be me or a woman like me, right in the eye and ask her what was wrong with me. All I want to do is to hide or run away and cry and I HAVE to stand up, look her directly in the face as if I have all the confidence in the world, as if I'm not some monstrous fucking freak who can't even use a gurney like a normal woman, and ask her to tell me what's wrong.
> 
> I mean, god forbid that we fat ladies EVER EVER show anything but complete and utter confidence in ourselves and our fat, because if we did, if we acted for even a tiny second as if our fat was a hinderance or a bother, then you guys might really have to examine your preferences and you might decide that you're a bunch of freaks. (For evidence of this, see the multitude of "why can't you BBWs be confident about yourselves" threads.) And so I did it. I stood up, without tears in my eyes, and I asked her what was wrong.
> 
> Turns out that that shower massager that is such a useful tool to the super sized amongst us and which had provided me with such relief from the itching had also burned me. That's right, Stan, because I couldn't reach manually and because I'm, admittedly, too prideful to ask someone else to apply medicine to my coo, I burned the most intimate part of my body with water hot enough to blister. What I want you to consider is how bad that itch had to have been for water that hot to have been a relief. Then I want you to realize that that had been my best option at the time--given the limitations of my size. I realize, of course, that such problems come NO WHERE near the tattoo/community issue you discussed earlier, but it was pretty dire and painful (not to mention humiliating) for me.
> 
> Ah, if only I could reach the way I needed to. And, shit, wouldn't it have been great if, at that moment in December, I had had some place where I could talk to other super sized women. Maybe I could have gotten tips for how to deal with it. Maybe I could have just had some moral support. Oh, if only such a place had existed. But it didn't. So I dealt with the yeast infection and the results of it on my own.
> 
> You may or may not know much about yeast infections, but let me tell you this: when you kill off the bacteria in that area, the yeast begins to flourish. That's why women on antibiotics often get yeast infections. Keep that in mind. At any rate, I took the medicine prescribed for me for the yeast infection (I didn't get the vicodin prescribed to me for the pain of the burn I'd given myself, but instead decided to _wo_man up and deal with it.) The yeast infection started to go away, but I still had to cleanse the burns. Doing so, while a challenge, also served to kill off the bacteria in the area. While that's good for preventing the burns from getting infected, it also, as you may recall, created an environment for the yeast to thrive.
> 
> Back and forth, back and forth. It went on and on. I'd get one of the issues cleared up but would make the other issue worse in the process. 3 months. 3 months of not being able to clear up this incessant itchy painful hell and all I keep thinking is "being this fat, I'll never clear it up. never. I'll never be able to keep my pubic area cool and dry the way I need to. I'm going to have this forever." It was terrifying, Stan, let me tell you. Terrifying. I thought I'd never ever have a healthy vagina again. That isn't a damned joke either. Can you imagine the stupid sudden realization that your penis will, for the rest of your life, itch or be in severe pain.
> 
> It made/makes me feel like a failure--as a human and as a woman. What I wanted was to die, to end the constant irritation, pain, and realization that to be as fat as I am, I must also suffer things like this that cause irritation, pain, anxiety, embarrassment, and the understanding that I am not and cannot be a normal functioning woman. Ever.
> 
> Eventually, though, it did clear up, but can you imagine, Stan, if I'd had the resource of a super sized women's board during all of this, how much stress and anxiety I could have been saved? (Once I convinced the ladies to stop talking about toilet seats, of course.) Can you even imagine? Or does all of that fade away, merely secondary to the fact that you FAs don't have a private board too?
> 
> I don't blame anyone but myself for my issues. I'm fat. I made myself fat. It isn't any FA's fault that I have to deal with the issues I have to deal with and I have no interest in punishing FAs (or anyone but myself) for those issues, but for fuck-sake I'd really like a place where I can take a break from beating myself up, putting on a brave face, and constantly realizing over and over again that I'll never be a normal woman. I'd really like a place where other women who've faced similar issues can tell me how they beat the issues and attained some normality. I'd like to commune, to commiserate, to not feel like the biggest freakiest thing in the room--even if just for a moment.
> 
> What I don't understand is how any of that takes away from what you get here, Stan. Especially since you get what you give. I don't want to take anything away from you, I just want some space with the other girls like me. And if _you_ can't deal with that, well then fuck you right back.



Rebecca, I am humbly amazed by your courage, not
just to endure your infection issues, but to give
a public account of the experience. I personally
challenge everyone who read the quoted post to
rep Rebecca for it. Thanks, Rebecca, for telling me
about antibiotics and yeast infections. I was pretty
miserable with yeast infection where the top of my
legs joined at the crotch and I didn't even know that
discontinuing antibiotics is what cleared it up. I'll be
the first to say that my yeast infection was nothing,
compared to yours, however.

I've had an exam table come up, off the floor when
tried to use it's step, so I can certainly agree that
some facilities are just not prepared for us SSBBP.


----------



## Theatrmuse/Kara

Webmaster said:


> See, ever since the early 1980s I've been fighting against this very perception: there's size acceptance, and there's those pesky men who want fat women. One side pursues noble civil rights issues, the others are disreputable fetishists.
> 
> Dimensions' whole reason for coming into being was showing that the men who so happen to prefer fat women are an integral part of the picture, and to help the two sides learn about each other. Fat people and those who support and admire them are one. We fight for the same things. We complement each other. Sure, men and women are different and express their desires in different ways, but as far as pursuing size acceptance and showing the world that fat people are human beings just as valuable, sexy, and deserving of respect as anyone else, we seek the same.
> 
> There is no room for a bunker mentality on any side. We need to open up to one another and learn and appreciate. The stakes can be high, but the rewards higher.



And that, my friend Conrad, is the reason you are called the chief! You TOTALLY rock our size acceptance movement and Dimensions is in your debt! Hugs, Kara


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## Tina

I have unapproved all posts pertaining to a subject better discussed on the WB. If someone wants to make a thread for them there I will move them. Otherwise, keep Weight Board stuff on the WB and Main board stuff on the MB. Thank you. [/mod]


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## Angel

Tina said:


> I have unapproved all posts pertaining to a subject better discussed on the WB. If someone wants to make a thread for them there I will move them. Otherwise, keep Weight Board stuff on the WB and Main board stuff on the MB. Thank you. [/mod]



With all do respect...

My 2nd to last post was making a major point about why the SS Forum is necessary and needs to remain private. Those who are not SSBBW have probably never been approached in that manner or even knew that goes on. My post had absolutely nothing to do with what goes on in the weight board, but everything to do with why the Super Size Forum is needed.

I don't spill my guts here that often, and if my well thought out posts which specifically pertain to and defend my fellow SSBBW are going to unapproved or deleted because of some one who has a fetish and who may be objectifying what brings some SSBBW embarrassment or humiliation, then why should I even waste my time posting in a thread that is about what concerns me and other SSBBW? There were plenty of other posts made in this very thread that had absolutely nothing to do with the need for the SS Forum, but where this thread was hijacked and turned into a personal Hyde Park and which ultimately offended many SSBBW, but those posts still exist. 

Yes, I'm passionate because in reality and even online it's not that often that someone actually has the guts to stand up for or to defend the REAL needs of SSBBW!


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## LillyBBBW

I don't think you were being singled out Angel. Looks like all of the problematic posts beginning with the "I'm ok with it all," post was taken out. 




Angel said:


> With all do respect...
> 
> My 2nd to last post was making a major point about why the SS Forum is necessary and needs to remain private. Those who are not SSBBW have probably never been approached in that manner or even knew that goes on. My post had absolutely nothing to do with what goes on in the weight board, but everything to do with why the Super Size Forum is needed.
> 
> I don't spill my guts here that often, and if my well thought out posts which specifically pertain to and defend my fellow SSBBW are going to unapproved or deleted because of some one who has a fetish and who may be objectifying what brings some SSBBW embarrassment or humiliation, then why should I even waste my time posting in a thread that is about what concerns me and other SSBBW? There were plenty of other posts made in this very thread that had absolutely nothing to do with the need for the SS Forum, but where this thread was hijacked and turned into a personal Hyde Park and which ultimately offended many SSBBW, but those posts still exist.
> 
> Yes, I'm passionate because in reality and even online it's not that often that someone actually has the guts to stand up for or to defend the REAL needs of SSBBW!


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## Ernest Nagel

Angel said:


> With all do respect...
> 
> My 2nd to last post was making a major point about why the SS Forum is necessary and needs to remain private. Those who are not SSBBW have probably never been approached in that manner or even knew that goes on. My post had absolutely nothing to do with what goes on in the weight board, but everything to do with why the Super Size Forum is needed.
> 
> I don't spill my guts here that often, and if my well thought out posts which specifically pertain to and defend my fellow SSBBW are going to unapproved or deleted because of some one who has a fetish and who may be objectifying what brings some SSBBW embarrassment or humiliation, then why should I even waste my time posting in a thread that is about what concerns me and other SSBBW? There were plenty of other posts made in this very thread that had absolutely nothing to do with the need for the SS Forum, but where this thread was hijacked and turned into a personal Hyde Park and which ultimately offended many SSBBW, but those posts still exist.
> 
> Yes, I'm passionate because in reality and even online it's not that often that someone actually has the guts to stand up for or to defend the REAL needs of SSBBW!



Angel, for what it's worth I'm pretty sure I recall your post and believe I repped you for it as well? I felt it was both well reasoned, well written and directly relevant to the topic at hand. I may have miscued in some of my posts on this thread but my understanding was that it had drifted generally towards the reasons/need for restricted access threads? I felt both yours and Rebecca's posts were excellent arguments for the privacy of the SSBBW Forum. Perhaps it was a case of the baby going out with the bathwater?

In any case I always defer to the wisdom and discretion of the mods, even if I disagree with them. They do what seems to my mind a nearly impossible task thanklessly, tirelessly and in almost every instance, brilliantly. Herding cats seems like a no-brainer compared to their job. More like juggling mercury or pushing water uphill with a rake?

I can't think of one instance when I've had a post deleted or censored that it would have warranted arguing. I wonder if your post in question may not be an exception here?


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## Tina

Angel, your post quoted and referred to a post that is in moderation because it is not Main Board material and a complete deviation from anything at all having to do even with the issues _surrounding_ subject at hand. They were all removed for that reason. If you do not have the text saved and would like me to send it to you so you can alter the post in order to be more on topic, _PM me_ and I will be glad to do so. That offer stands for anyone who wishes, but it needs to not have WB type of material in it. [/mod]


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## Shosh

Hi Tina. How are you lovey? I understand that the posts have to be moderated for sure. I think that what Angel and Lakesha and others were saying was very heartfelt and important to the ongoing discussion pertaining to the SSBBW forum, that maybe those posts should stand to illustrate the depth of feeling. I too was a bit offended by that other post, even if it was that person's belief.
At any rate I do respect what you are doing here Tina. Please know that.
Susannah


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## fatgirlflyin

LillyBBBW said:


> I don't think you were being singled out Angel. Looks like all of the problematic posts beginning with the "I'm ok with it all," post was taken out.




Yup mine were deleted too


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## Tina

I get what is being said, Shosh, but they were all referring to a post that was not for this board. As I said, anyone who would like me to send them the text of their post in order to re-post it as a general post, without the WB-type of content only need PM me.


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## Theatrmuse/Kara

Gosh, I am glad I don't have your moderating job, Tina.


Therefore, I am sending you a ton of chocolate hugs and kisses for your effort and commitment!:wubu::wubu::wubu:TINA:wubu::wubu::wubu:
HUGS, Kara


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## Tina

Kara, you are one of the most kind, empathetic people I've come across. Thank you so very much. :wubu:


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## topoftherange

Ruby Ripples said:


> You have by this post put fetishists and what you call "true FAs" into two completely different groups, why? Why can't a "true FA" have a fetish too? Are "true FAs" fetishless completely, or just do they only not have a fat fetish, but are allowed a non-fat related one, such as .. BDSM for example? That is so incorrect.
> Hear, hear.



Well done, you hit the nail on the head. Exactly the point I was going to make.


Where do you draw the line between FA's having an acceptable type of
sexuality and a fetishistic (is that a word?) sexuality?

There's probably a big scale of different gradations between someone who
only likes the missionary position in the same bed on the same day of the
week and someone who gets off on thinking of things that obviously
are harmful for the recipient of these thoughts.

While I hope that the majority of us are disgusted by those in the latter
extreme, I also think that not all that many women would be excited by
a guy with no apparent fantasies whatsoever and who performs sex
as a routine.

From what I have read or picked up directly in discussions or personally,
most women have quite a number of varied fantasies. Do we say that
this is fetishism and separate from normal sexuality?

I consider myself a fairly "average" FA, and yes the idea of being laid
on or squashed, is a fantasy of mine. I don't think I make my partners 
uncomfortable by mentioning it and I don't treat them as inanimate objects,
there only to fulfil my squashing fantasy.

On the contrary, I think they find it quite endearing and even quite exciting
knowing that they may have the ability to fulfil an aspect of my sexuality
that is slightly off the "wham bam, thank you mam" variety.

Just like if I discover a way of fulfilling some aspect of my partner's sexuality,
it gives me satisfaction too.

Its surely inevitable that an FA is going to have something in his make-up
that finds some aspect of a large woman exciting. Its going to be something
about the size of the large woman, because this is what differentiates her
from an average or small sized woman. 

By some of the previous posters' rationale, that is in itself a fetish.
So you are in effect saying that there is no such thing as a non-fetishistic
FA.


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## Chimpi

topoftherange said:


> a fetishistic (is that a word?) sexuality?



Yes, "fetishistic" is a word.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster

resurrection. this thread haz it


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## topoftherange

BigBellySSBBW said:


> resurrection. this thread haz it



Oops, yes its been a while since anyone posted.

I hadn't realised when I waxed lyrical yesterday. :doh:

Anyway, I thoroughly agree that there should be a separate forum
where SSBBWs can chat with each other in privacy, which I think
is the more important reason for this thread's raison d'etre.

I will now slink back into the shadows from whence I came. :blush:


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## ghhfdh

TallFatSue said:


> Doubly luckily, my engineer husband Art is so completely smitten with my "super structure" that he gives me ecstatic full-body massages to soothe the aches and pains.



You are very lucky!!


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