# Kevin Smith Ejected From Southwest Airlines



## BigCutieSasha (Feb 14, 2010)

On twitter tonight, I noticed following Adipositivity that Kevin Smith was ejected from a plane today on Southwest Airlines. He has been tweeting about it nonstop and you can view his open twitter account and see all he has posted to see what happened here. 

Now I know this isn't news to anyone and even if you aren't a Kevin Smith fan, I just can't imagine why they feel treating ANYONE like this is ok. He needed NO seat belt extender and the arm wrests went down all the way. I don't see what the problem or safety hazard could have been. I will never, ever fly with Southwest Airlines is this is how they treat their fat celebrity passengers, let alone some average person like myself.


----------



## Kbbig (Feb 14, 2010)

MsSasha said:


> On twitter tonight, I noticed following Adipositivity that Kevin Smith was ejected from a plane today on Southwest Airlines. He has been tweeting about it nonstop and you can view his open twitter account and see all he has posted to see what happened here.
> 
> Now I know this isn't news to anyone and even if you aren't a Kevin Smith fan, I just can't imagine why they feel treating ANYONE like this is ok. He needed NO seat belt extender and the arm wrests went down all the way. I don't see what the problem or safety hazard could have been. I will never, ever fly with Southwest Airlines is this is how they treat their fat celebrity passengers, let alone some average person like myself.



Wow, he sounds absolutely incensed! Rightfully so, obviously. What interests me the most is that he was not apparently the fattest person in his area, which makes me wonder if it was his celebrity and the attention he was getting that got him kicked off.

I haven't flown in a while nor will I, but this also makes me reconsider considering Southwest for my travel needs.


----------



## Ash (Feb 14, 2010)

Some of his tweets on this are really, really cool (and some are just hilarious). I hope this brings some attention to this issue. Thanks for posting this, Sasha.


----------



## BigCutieSasha (Feb 14, 2010)

Ashley said:


> Some of his tweets on this are really, really cool (and some are just hilarious). I hope this brings some attention to this issue. Thanks for posting this, Sasha.



Yeah I'm looking forward to this SWodcast tomorrow. Like people have been saying to him, he's lucky he has such a platform to talk about this with. I <3 him. Even if he did make Jersey Girl.


----------



## LovelyLiz (Feb 14, 2010)

Ugh. I can't (and can) believe it.

My favorite line in his tweets about the incident:

"Thank God I don't embarrass easily (bless you, JERSEY GIRL training)."


----------



## BigCutieSasha (Feb 14, 2010)

It's making more headlines! This is good!! http://www.breakingglobalnews.com/kevin-smith-southwest/1221921


----------



## jewels_mystery (Feb 14, 2010)

wow I am stunned. I love Southwest airlines.


----------



## The_Hero (Feb 14, 2010)

I put the link to the story on my facebook and livejournal accounts myself.

Maybe if even fires get lit Southwest may stop this policy to avoid the bad publicity.

Personally I think the airline was using the fat issue as a cheap excuse, and it was his celebrity staus that was disruptive, as enough people approached him before the flight that I can see them thinking it would disrupt the flight.

This is a story that needs spread while it can be....



"Was it over the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell, no! ... Cuz when the going gets tough? The tough get going! ... Who's with me? C'mon!" - Bluto Blutarski, Animal House.


----------



## bigsexy920 (Feb 14, 2010)

I think some of the story may be missing from the information that he is getting out - as a large person Ive never been told I cant fly at all. I have purchased two seats for many years not when I travel. Ive never traveled on Southwest Airlines but from what I understand - if you purchase 2 seats with them and the flight is not full they will actually give you your money back on the second seat. No other carrier will do that as far as I know. Ive never been reimbursed for a seat on a flight that was not full. 

I personally dont think It is fair that I have to buy two seats. I think there should be seating that can accomidate my size. The media keeps saying how the population is getting bigger and bigger and the airlines have not addressed that.


----------



## jewels_mystery (Feb 14, 2010)

I have flown Southwest for several years and always buy two seats. There has yet to be a time that I have not recieved a refund for the second seat. I have never seen anyone been asked to get off because of their size.


----------



## Saoirse (Feb 14, 2010)

> He said that he boarded the plane as normal, but after he was seated and a number of people had identified him as Kevin Smith, Southwest staff decided to inform him that the Captain had deemed him a safety risk and that he would not be able to fly.



It doesnt say anything about him being "too fat". 

But anyway, good for him for making a scene. I'd be pissed as well!


----------



## bigsexy920 (Feb 14, 2010)

That bothers me if that is the only part of the story. I still feel like there is more to it. 



Saoirse said:


> It doesnt say anything about him being "too fat".
> 
> But anyway, good for him for making a scene. I'd be pissed as well!


----------



## exile in thighville (Feb 14, 2010)

pretty sure he was just ejected for being kevin smith


----------



## exile in thighville (Feb 14, 2010)

nah this really was pretty cool of him


----------



## Ned Sonntag (Feb 14, 2010)

Kbbig said:


> Wow, he sounds absolutely incensed! Rightfully so, obviously. What interests me the most is that he was not apparently the fattest person in his area, which makes me wonder if it was his celebrity and the attention he was getting that got him kicked off.
> 
> I haven't flown in a while nor will I, but this also makes me reconsider considering Southwest for my travel needs.


 His SnoochieBoochie countercultural cache got him onto somebody's radar... Silent Bob shall be heard from henceforth...


----------



## mszwebs (Feb 14, 2010)

bigsexy920 said:


> I think some of the story may be missing from the information that he is getting out - as a large person Ive never been told I cant fly at all. I have purchased two seats for many years not when I travel. *Ive never traveled on Southwest Airlines but from what I understand - if you purchase 2 seats with them and the flight is not full they will actually give you your money back on the second seat. No other carrier will do that as far as I know.* Ive never been reimbursed for a seat on a flight that was not full.
> 
> I personally dont think It is fair that I have to buy two seats. I think there should be seating that can accomidate my size. The media keeps saying how the population is getting bigger and bigger and the airlines have not addressed that.



Midwest does it too.


----------



## BBWMoon (Feb 14, 2010)

Flashback:

I didn't buy a second seat because my friend was going to snuggle up next to me. We get to the boarding area, and a counter person approaches us and begins her "You're too fat and need to purchase a second seat, Speech".

I look at my friend and said "She's starting..."

So, in the end... we're so upset, and my friend is yelling at the top of his lungs that I am not "A DANGER" to other passengers. The Supervisor doesn't back down. We buy the second seat.

We get on the plane. I'm the window seat. He sits next to me. My "Second Seat" is the Aisle. 

The plane fills, and then a crew member asks to use my extra seat.

I explained that SWA MADE ME purchase a second seat... and NO... THEY MAY NOT HAVE IT!


If I had traveled alone, I would have bought a second seat when I booked my flight, but I never buy a second seat if I'm traveling with someone I am close to.


I will never fly SWA ever again. I only fly :wubu:Jet Blue:wubu:, if I can help it.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe (Feb 14, 2010)

Actually, if you read his tweets, it seems that (from the way I'm reading it) he did not purchase two seats, BUT their policy is that in order to make you purchase two seats 1) the armrests have to not be able to go down, and 2) you have to need a belt extender. Neither of those things were true for him, so he was right to not purchase a second seat. From his "sometimes other people put the armrests up, you know, it's not because they can't go down" (paraphrasing) post, I'm guessing maybe the flight attendant saw the arms were up and ASSUMED they couldn't go down. But there definitely should not have been a scene made - she should have asked him quietly if they could and then let him stay on the plane when he showed her they could. Grrrr.


----------



## Rowan (Feb 14, 2010)

Doh...my bad! I just posted about this too lol
Ignore my thread lol


----------



## olwen (Feb 14, 2010)

There is no way Kevin Smith should need to buy a second seat and he was right to not purchase one, but I don't see how he would be a danger to the other passengers unless he was being loud and obnoxious and drunk or high or something. He always seems to have his shit together when he's being interview and such so I doubt that was the case. I hope he sues them for something and it turns into a media circus for Southwest Airlines.


----------



## Saoirse (Feb 14, 2010)

I like this one bit on his Twitter feed:

some Twit: "access 2 every option for weight loss yet u don't take advantage. why?"

Kevin: My weight doesn't bug ME; it bugs @SouthwestAir


----------



## chicken legs (Feb 14, 2010)

OMG i will never fly Southwest again..its so cramped and stuffy on those planes its effing ridiclous. You feel like a sardine. Even the stewardess had trouble moving up and down the walkway.


----------



## BigCutieSasha (Feb 14, 2010)




----------



## missy_blue_eyez (Feb 14, 2010)

I just read a few of the articles about this, and then I read that he had a film due out in the next couple of weeks......*ding* I kinda cant help but think along the lines of......theres no such thing as bad publicity..........little bit convinient, me thinks. But either way, its still ridiculous, they sound like the British equivilent of Ryanair, are they like a budget airline??? Just recently all these stories about fatty discrimination with regards to flying has absolutely terrified me, Ive actually vowed that 2010 is the year I stay and discover more of Britain, and one of the main reasons is because Im scared to fly, this whole fat hatred thing seems to be getting bigger and bigger (no pun intended). I noticed a few of the comments on one of the stories too, I actually thought, maybe people will champion against Southwest, but ughhh, no, just really horrid, nasty comments. I tell ya, Hitler would have been in his element if he had some of those prejudiced idiots on his side back in the day!


----------



## Scorsese86 (Feb 14, 2010)

He didn't pay for two seats. No matter what, he can afford it and don't make a scene about it. But he puts the focus on the size acceptance at least.


----------



## Saoirse (Feb 14, 2010)

Scorsese86 said:


> He didn't pay for two seats. No matter what, he can afford it and don't make a scene about it. But he puts the focus on the size acceptance at least.



I don't think you quite understand...


----------



## BigCutieSasha (Feb 14, 2010)

He had no need for a second seat which is whats ridiculous. The arm wrests went down and he didn't require a seat belt extender, so he wasn't violating any policies. Also I think chalking some of this up as publicity for his film isn't fair and kinda takes away from any sincerity he has in this case. He's a fat man who likes being fat. He was on his way back from a Bear Bash probably feeling some major chub love and felt he was in a great place to publicly call these airlines out for being the pricks they are.


----------



## chicken legs (Feb 14, 2010)

missy_blue_eyez said:


> I just read a few of the articles about this, and then I read that he had a film due out in the next couple of weeks......*ding* I kinda cant help but think along the lines of......theres no such thing as bad publicity..........little bit convinient, me thinks. But either way, its still ridiculous, they sound like the British equivilent of Ryanair, are they like a budget airline??? !



LOL..they are soo cheap..they make you share a bag of nuts


----------



## missy_blue_eyez (Feb 14, 2010)

chicken legs said:


> LOL..they are soo cheap..they make you share a bag of nuts



Bit more up market than any Ryanair flight then.....I dont think Ive ever been given a bag of nuts on a crumby domestic flight!




MsSasha said:


> Also I think chalking some of this up as publicity for his film isn't fair and kinda takes away from any sincerity he has in this case.



And I also dont think suggesting that he's probably glad of getting some extra publicity from this for the new film, is totally absurd. But anyway, what do I know!


----------



## mszwebs (Feb 14, 2010)

Actually, an article I read said that he DID purchase 2 seats, but on a later flight and he was on this flight in a single seat, because of flying stand-by to get to the destination earlier.

Now, if he could get the arms down and not use a belt extender... the purchase of 2 seats was PROBABLY not because he was too fat...more likely he wanted to not have people all up on him being like "OMFG KEVIN SMITH I HAVE A SCRIPT...WHY DID YOU MAKE JERSEY GIRLS...TRY NOT TO SUCK ANY DICK ON YOUR WAY TO THE PARKING LOT" etc.

The fact remains that he was sitting in the seat with the arm rests down and the belt on, no extender.

I don't know how that constitutes a flight risk... so I'm actually going to agree with Dan and say that he was thrown off the plane for being Kevin Smith.


----------



## Scorsese86 (Feb 14, 2010)

Oh... and I liked _Jersey Girl_.


----------



## Weirdo890 (Feb 14, 2010)

Well, Southwest Airline is going to have to work on its customer service. That's all I can say.


----------



## mszwebs (Feb 14, 2010)

"That's who they're saving the country from. Me. Fat Me. I'm a terrorist and how I terrorize is by sitting next to you on a plane and throwing my flab to your knee, or some such shit"~ Kevin Smith's in his SModcast.


*^^^*This lol*^^^*


----------



## exile in thighville (Feb 14, 2010)

Scorsese86 said:


> Oh... and I liked _Jersey Girl_.



the real enemy


----------



## BigCutieSasha (Feb 15, 2010)

"@jacqueline_mary "good timing for @southwestair debacle! cop out in 2 weeks. thank them for the publicity" Yes - THAT'S how I want to sell my movie: "Hi! I'm the fat-ass, hack-ass, loud-mouth clown who dresses like a 12 yr old & is Too Fat To Fly. Go see COP OUT!" -KS


----------



## John Drake (Feb 15, 2010)

I have to say that while I've followed this story with some interest, I can't abide the slamming of Jersey Girl. If nothing else, it's one of George Carlin's best roles. Liv Tyler works out even if she's not an elf, and for a grim sad film, it's pretty funny. I love seeing Ben Affleck do manual labor. Nope, sorry, liked the film. If I'm in the mood, I like Smith's open hearted innocence vs. freakin' the squares dynamic. And, c'mon, he's not that big, why hassle him?


----------



## chicken legs (Feb 15, 2010)

and welcome to dims Mr. John Drake:bow:


----------



## BLUEeyedBanshee (Feb 15, 2010)

Holy crud, listened to most of his Smodcast last night about it and honestly, they were way out of line. 

And yeah he had purchased 2 seats, and regularly does so because as he said, he can afford to and that way he doesn't have to have someone next to him...he can put the arm rests down and can get the belt on without an extender. He ended up with one seat because he was able to return home early and the flight was full, and only one seat was available. Which isn't a problem because he can put the arm rests down and therefore there is no "safety risk"

If you plan on listening to the Smodcast on this one, be warned it runs about an hour and 40 minutes long...I need to finish listening to it.

This is nuts


----------



## CrankySpice (Feb 15, 2010)

BLUEeyedBanshee said:


> Holy crud, listened to most of his Smodcast last night about it and honestly, they were way out of line.
> 
> And yeah he had purchased 2 seats, and regularly does so because as he said, he can afford to and that way he doesn't have to have someone next to him...he can put the arm rests down and can get the belt on without an extender. He ended up with one seat because he was able to return home early and the flight was full, and only one seat was available. Which isn't a problem because he can put the arm rests down and therefore there is no "safety risk"
> 
> ...



I just finished listening to it and the best part about it is that he says that he was going to drop the issue - that his tweets, etc were just his way of dealing with the humiliation - until the passenger sitting with him in his row (with his extra paid seat between them) had a near identical experience to his own - stewardess pulled her aside and told her she'd need to consider purchasing a 2nd seat but she could "ask Mr. Smith's permission" to share the seat between her and Kevin Smith. And he said that he realized that this must happen every single day to everyday, overweight Americans who don't have the platform he has to speak out against it.


----------



## Isla620 (Feb 15, 2010)

Rather than kicking him off, they should have asked for volunteers to sit next to him. Surely there was at least one closet FFA on that flight. I know I would totally jump at the chance to be squished by Kevin Smith for a couple hours.


----------



## disconnectedsmile (Feb 15, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> the real enemy



Hey man, I liked Jersey Girl, too. 


So... I think it really sucks the way Southwest treated Kevin. And hopefully his response will bring more public attention to airlines’ sizeist bullshit policies.
However, I can’t help but feel that there would not be such a public outpouring of support (outside of the size community [read as: DIMs]) if an average, non-famous fatty raised a stink about Southwest.


----------



## indy500tchr (Feb 15, 2010)

The thing that got me most about the first plane problem was on his way off the plane he saw ANOTHER large person squished into a middle seat who he said was even bigger then him. Why did they have to single Kevin Smith out and let this other person go without being asked to leave? 

I think that they did it b/c of who he was not the size he was.


----------



## exile in thighville (Feb 15, 2010)

jersey girl is so fucking awful


----------



## Blackjack (Feb 15, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> jersey girl is so fucking awful



We get it. That's not the issue here.


----------



## Saoirse (Feb 15, 2010)

Isla620 said:


> Rather than kicking him off, they should have asked for volunteers to sit next to him. Surely there was at least one closet FFA on that flight. I know I would totally jump at the chance to be squished by Kevin Smith for a couple hours.



Im not an FFA and I wouldve paid to sit next to him :smitten:


----------



## 99Haints (Feb 15, 2010)

I'm not crazy about his movies, but personally he's hilarious. It's good fortune in a way, this happening to someone who can be out there throwing these great barbs for everyone who's been unnecessarily humiliated like this. The late night comedians are going to have to really pick the bones of this thing to find anything to say he didn't say better. Having it happen to such a high profile person should also take some of the freakish feeling out of it for future "safety hazards".


----------



## PeanutButterfly (Feb 15, 2010)

99Haints said:


> It's good fortune in a way, this happening to someone who can be out there throwing these great barbs for everyone who's been unnecessarily humiliated like this.



Exactly. Poor Kevin Smith. I listened to his smodcast (all 90 minutes of it) and could really feel his outrage. I loved that he's not only pissed off about what happened to him but the way the airline treated the girl sitting next to him. That stewardness is just a horrible human being. I've never flown Southwest airlines and now never will.


----------



## superodalisque (Feb 15, 2010)

i saw Kevin Smith in person once. it leads me to believe he isn't telling the entire truth. i can't picture sitting next to him on a plane and hot having him lap into my seat. i think he is being a spoiled brat. just because you're a bit famous it doesn't give you the right to make other people uncomfortable. he knew he was fat in the first place and should have bought two seats just out of basic consideration for the people who were next to him. after all they didn't get to enjoy his food so they shouldn't have to share thier seat that they've paid full price for. also he could have gone business class if he wasn't already. i think he just makes fat people look selfish and unrealistic. stuff like this takes all the ooomph out of SA.


----------



## disconnectedsmile (Feb 15, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> he knew he was fat in the first place and should have bought two seats just out of basic consideration for the people who were next to him.


no one person should be subjected to paying for two seats.
every flight passenger should have the same right to comfort.

no one, famous or not, should have to settle for just _some_ rights.


----------



## indy500tchr (Feb 15, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i saw Kevin Smith in person once. it leads me to believe he isn't telling the entire truth. i can't picture sitting next to him on a plane and hot having him lap into my seat. i think he is being a spoiled brat. just because you're a bit famous it doesn't give you the right to make other people uncomfortable. he knew he was fat in the first place and should have bought two seats just out of basic consideration for the people who were next to him. after all they didn't get to enjoy his food so they shouldn't have to share thier seat that they've paid full price for. also he could have gone business class if he wasn't already. i think he just makes fat people look selfish and unrealistic. stuff like this takes all the ooomph out of SA.




If you listened to his entire Smodcast, which I did. He did purchase two seats. However, he tried to fly standby on an earlier flight because he arrived at the airport early. If the gate agent told him before he was placed on standby that he would have to have use both his seats this mess would not have happened. However, they allowed him to board standby, get to his seat and sit down before they came down the aisle and pulled him off. 

All of that could have been prevented IF Southwest was consistent with their "person of size" policy. He even mentioned in his Smodcast that there was another large person squished into a middle seat that most likely should have had two seats as well on that flight he was pulled off of. To make matters worse on his original flight there was a larger lady who was pulled off AFTER she boarded and told she should have purchased another seat BUT if she asked Mr. Smith to share the seat he already purchased they would let it slide.

I'm sorry but do these people get off embarrassing people like that? Gate agents should be the one's to tell people BEFORE they board the flight these things.


----------



## superodalisque (Feb 15, 2010)

disconnectedsmile said:


> no one person should be subjected to paying for two seats.
> every flight passenger should have the same right to comfort.
> 
> no one, famous or not, should have to settle for just _some_ rights.



if you are fat and don't fit into one in ways that you don't make other people uncomfortable you should buy two. your rights end where the rights of others begin.


----------



## olwen (Feb 15, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i saw Kevin Smith in person once. it leads me to believe he isn't telling the entire truth. i can't picture sitting next to him on a plane and hot having him lap into my seat. i think he is being a spoiled brat. just because you're a bit famous it doesn't give you the right to make other people uncomfortable. he knew he was fat in the first place and should have bought two seats just out of basic consideration for the people who were next to him. after all they didn't get to enjoy his food so they shouldn't have to share thier seat that they've paid full price for. also he could have gone business class if he wasn't already. i think he just makes fat people look selfish and unrealistic. stuff like this takes all the ooomph out of SA.



He's saying he did buy a second seat tho and they still kicked him off.


----------



## indy500tchr (Feb 15, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> if you are fat and don't fit into one in ways that you don't make other people uncomfortable you should buy two. your rights end where the rights of others begin.



I agree with this. If I take up more than one seat then I should pay for more than one. However, Kevin Smith DID NOT take up more than one seat and fit within the guidelines of Southwest's policy. So his rights were ended for no reason.


----------



## indy500tchr (Feb 15, 2010)

olwen said:


> He's saying he did buy a second seat tho and they still kicked him off.



He was kicked off b/c there was only one seat available. He buys two b/c he doesn't want to sit next to anybody on flights not because he needs two seats.


----------



## Blackjack (Feb 15, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i saw Kevin Smith in person once. it leads me to believe he isn't telling the entire truth. i can't picture sitting next to him on a plane and hot having him lap into my seat. i think he is being a spoiled brat. just because you're a bit famous it doesn't give you the right to make other people uncomfortable. he knew he was fat in the first place and should have bought two seats just out of basic consideration for the people who were next to him. after all they didn't get to enjoy his food so they shouldn't have to share thier seat that they've paid full price for. also he could have gone business class if he wasn't already. i think he just makes fat people look selfish and unrealistic. stuff like this takes all the ooomph out of SA.



He knew the risks, he bought the tickets, I say let him crash!


----------



## olwen (Feb 15, 2010)

indy500tchr said:


> He was kicked off b/c there was only one seat available. He buys two b/c he doesn't want to sit next to anybody on flights not because he needs two seats.



Right. I'm not disputing that. I'm only saying that in this case he bought an extra ticket, so they shouldn't have kicked him off. What's more, they should have told him at the gate before he boarded that the flight was full. I mean they take your boarding pass and scan it. They can see how many seats you bought....


----------



## indy500tchr (Feb 15, 2010)

olwen said:


> Right. I'm not disputing that. I'm only saying that in this case he bought an extra ticket, so they shouldn't have kicked him off. What's more, they should have told him at the gate before he boarded that the flight was full. I mean they take your boarding pass and scan it. They can see how many seats you bought....



Oh I totally agree...if you read my posts above you will see that the flight he was removed from was not the flight he purchased two tickets for. He flew standby to try to get home earlier.


----------



## 99Haints (Feb 15, 2010)

PeanutButterfly said:


> Exactly. Poor Kevin Smith. I listened to his smodcast (all 90 minutes of it) and could really feel his outrage. I loved that he's not only pissed off about what happened to him but the way the airline treated the girl sitting next to him. That stewardness is just a horrible human being. I've never flown Southwest airlines and now never will.



Smodcast...I hope I don't crash my laptop trying to figure out what that is, because I'd like to hear that interview. There was once a time when I almost didn't fit on an amusement park ride. Luckily, a kind and determined worker helped get the harness latched, but that was an incredibly humiliating minute or so as the ride was held up waiting for it. I don't know how I could've handled actually being ejected and walking away while the huge crowd looked me up and down to see how fat is too fat. For him to come out of that awfulness swinging, and with the tact to present it in a way that draws people in...I must salute this.:bow:


----------



## olwen (Feb 15, 2010)

indy500tchr said:


> Oh I totally agree...if you read my posts above you will see that the flight he was removed from was not the flight he purchased two tickets for. He flew standby to try to get home earlier.



Even if you fly standby they still scan your boarding pass and do whatever it is they do in their little computer, and see that he bought two tickets and they should still transfer them to his standby flight. I just think the airline is all screwy. I wish I could have seen the whole thing. If he had room and there was a seat between him and the other woman then I guess they did let him have that extra seat, and if so then why did they still kick him off the flight? Oh I think my brain is starting to hurt. LOL


----------



## HottiMegan (Feb 15, 2010)

I listened to the smodcast and can completely understand his outrage. It was handled poorly. It adds to my fear of flying. My parents want me to fly out to Chicago this summer with the boys and i'm afraid i wont because of the whole being fat thing.


----------



## indy500tchr (Feb 15, 2010)

olwen said:


> Even if you fly standby they still scan your boarding pass and do whatever it is they do in their little computer, and see that he bought two tickets and they should still transfer them to his standby flight. I just think the airline is all screwy. I wish I could have seen the whole thing. If he had room and there was a seat between him and the other woman then I guess they did let him have that extra seat, and if so then why did they still kick him off the flight? Oh I think my brain is starting to hurt. LOL



There was only one seat left on the earlier flight and he was top on the standby list and let him on and then kicked him off. Guess they didn't care he had purchased two seats to begin with when they only had one seat left. He did get to have his two seats on his original flight.


----------



## indy500tchr (Feb 15, 2010)

99Haints said:


> Smodcast...I hope I don't crash my laptop trying to figure out what that is, because I'd like to hear that interview. There was once a time when I almost didn't fit on an amusement park ride. Luckily, a kind and determined worker helped get the harness latched, but that was an incredibly humiliating minute or so as the ride was held up waiting for it. I don't know how I could've handled actually being ejected and walking away while the huge crowd looked me up and down to see how fat is too fat. For him to come out of that awfulness swinging, and with the tact to present it in a way that draws people in...I must salute this.:bow:



www.smodcast.com


----------



## cinnamitch (Feb 15, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> if you are fat and don't fit into one in ways that you don't make other people uncomfortable you should buy two. your rights end where the rights of others begin.



He fit into the seats as per the criteria for SW. He was able to put the armrests down and buckle his lap belt. His outrage was the way everything was handled. It seems to really bother him that if someone who is a celebrity has to deal with this, how bad do the "regular fat folk" get treated? I hope he gets a lot of mileage from this myself. No one deserves to be humiliated like that. Even so called celebs have feelings too.


----------



## superodalisque (Feb 16, 2010)

i can understand why a lot of people can relate to him. but its more than about policy. its about not being rude to other people that you're flying with. if he did have a ticket for 2 seats to begin with he should have reinforced that when he was on standby--and standby means just that, standing by. i have been travling alone fat for a long time and i recognize the need to reinforce certain things if i want to change my plans last minute. i just think he needs to grow up. other people get inconvienienced for all kinds of reasons at the airports. 

secondly he is much bigger than he leads people to understand in his blogs. he's about my size now--pretty much a super bhm. i don't think he is telling the whole truth. he is in denial about all kinds of things including his weight. going by years of traveling myself i know i have never purposefully been treated badly by an airline-- that includes flying internationally and sometimes flying last minute coach. i'm pretty sure if there had actually been two seats available he would have had them. i have seen airlines make accommodations for people when there were many times in the past. i think he likes publicity since before this nobdy really cared where he was and what he was doing that much. 

the real question is comfort for everyone including thin people. the new seats are just way too small for anyway and have almost no legroom. i flew on an old jet from the 70s owned by an african airline. i think it was an old 
DC10. yeah scary i know for anyone who remembers the history of the aircraft. but what really impressed me about it was how huge and roomy it was. any super would have been perfectly comfy in the coach seats. so it isn't how fat we are but how tiny the seats are overall. i think it would just be more effective to push for bigger seats for everyone instead of just acting indignant because we are fat and taking the position that its just too bad if we make other people uncomfortable just because we don't want to pay for two seats policy or not. 

why can't we just pay for the seats for now and work really hard on changing what the airlines are doing? we know people of other sizes would want that too. i really don't think this is a fat problem but its a humane problem. i know people in my family who fly with me who are entirely miserable with the seats as well. one ended up with a blood clot after a seven hour flight all crunched up. thats a problem thats been increasing that the airlines haven't dealt with either. so until then even if people are well within thier rights or the policies maybe they still need to be more thoughtful of the other people they are traveling with. the airlines are pretty stupid anyway. why should we defer to them when it comes to respecting other people's space. if we're honest with ourselves we know that in close situations like that we can often make people uncomfortable, or at least not as comfortable as they might have been ordinarily. we need to face it and so does he. why did he have 2 seats in the first place if he really thought it would be ok to squeeze other people up?


----------



## mszwebs (Feb 16, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i saw Kevin Smith in person once. it leads me to believe he isn't telling the entire truth. i can't picture sitting next to him on a plane and hot having him lap into my seat. i think he is being a spoiled brat. just because you're a bit famous it doesn't give you the right to make other people uncomfortable. he knew he was fat in the first place and should have bought two seats just out of basic consideration for the people who were next to him. after all they didn't get to enjoy his food so they shouldn't have to share thier seat that they've paid full price for. also he could have gone business class if he wasn't already. i think he just makes fat people look selfish and unrealistic. stuff like this takes all the ooomph out of SA.



Felecia, normally I agree with a lot of things that you say, but this one i have to disagree with.

As has been stated...by Smith in his SModcast, and by a number of people here - myself included and on the first page- he HAD purchased 2 seats for the original flight he was on. He was flying standby on a flight where there was only 1 seat available.

The gate agent, Suzanne, discussed the fact that there was only 1 available seat with him and he explained that he used 2 seats to keep distance between him and other passengers, at which point Suzanne looked at him, as she was directly in front of him and OK'D him for the ONE seat.

As he was the last to board, he was stopped by an SWA employee, questioning if he was "revenue", meaning did he purchase the seat. He didn't understand the guy and made a smart comment toward him, which seems to have pissed the employee off. Smith asked what he said, the guy repeated it and Smith stated he was "revenue"...though I don't know if flying standby counts in that case, as the tickets he purchased were for the next flight out.

He then enters the plane, where he is recognized and greeted warmly by an excited flight attendant who seems to have NO problem with the possibility of him being seated in 1 seat, puts up his bag and has JUST sat down between 2 women when he is approached by Suzanne, who leans in and tells him that the Captain (who he could not see from his seat, and who would not have had time to see Smith sitting and call Suzanne down from the gate by the time this occurred) has deemed him a safety concern, and has asked that he leave the plane.

I don't think at this point it's about whether or not his ass fit in the seat.

It's about SouthWest Airlines callous treatment and the inconsistent enforcement of their policies that is the issue.

Smith states himself that he would have let it die after his initial tweets were sent and he was on his originally planned flight home, but he witnessed the way that a fat woman (who, coincidentally could also get the arm rests down on her seat) seated in the aisle seat of the block of 3 seats that he was in (which he purchased 2 of to begin with) was treated. 

Pulled off a flight that was not full, told that she should consider purchasing 2 seats and having to ask his PERMISSION to possibly encroach on the seat that he had as an extra.

THAT^^^ is the bullshit. And if objecting to THAT^^^ makes us all look like whiny fatties, "selfish and unrealistic," then we have a lot more work to do than can possibly be done. I don't think that asking to be treated as a human being and not as shit that needs to be scraped off a shoe so everyone can go on their merry way is "selfish" OR "unrealistic."




On a side note, there is an entire thread about how people can not judge weight and size and you're just going to assume because you stood near him once that he didn't fit? We ask people not to make assumptions about US and our fat...how can we make an assumption about anyone else's?



Just an FYI, I posted this before your super big reply above... and I have to go frost cupcakes for a bakesale, but I'll be back to read it


----------



## exile in thighville (Feb 16, 2010)

kevin smith's being a douche allowing this to turn into an I'M AT MY FATTEST I BROKE A TOILET AND I NEED HELP scenario


----------



## superodalisque (Feb 16, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> kevin smith's being a douche allowing this to turn into an I'M AT MY FATTEST I BROKE A TOILET AND I NEED HELP scenario



i agree. overall he is an ass and its going to end up making people lose a lot of the empathy they would ordinarily have in a situation like this. wait, its going to get worse. he doesn't really give a damn about fat people. he's digusted with his own weight. all he is doing is riding the publicity.


----------



## BigCutieSasha (Feb 16, 2010)

Love you boo. 



mszwebs said:


> Felecia, normally I agree with a lot of things that you say, but this one i have to disagree with.
> 
> As has been stated...by Smith in his SModcast, and by a number of people here - myself included and on the first page- he HAD purchased 2 seats for the original flight he was on. He was flying standby on a flight where there was only 1 seat available.
> 
> ...


----------



## chicken legs (Feb 16, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> secondly he is much bigger than he leads people to understand in his blogs. he's about my size now--*pretty much a super bhm.*



What??????!!!!:eat2: ***looks for pix***


I'm horrible...I know.


----------



## superodalisque (Feb 16, 2010)

chicken legs said:


> What??????!!!!:eat2: ***looks for pix***
> 
> 
> I'm horrible...I know.



totally disgusting


----------



## superodalisque (Feb 16, 2010)

i think the fat woman should have bought 2 seats to begin with as well--just out of common everyday politeness. there aren't usually extra seats as much as there used to be anymore. its rude to inconvienience people because you need to ask if you can encroach on a seat someone has already paid for. what if they are a claustrophobic or something? we need to just be responsible for our own fat and stop pretending its someone else's responsibility.

i wonder why if he really wanted "distance" why he was not in business or 1st class in the first place?


----------



## Blackjack (Feb 16, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i wonder why if he really wanted "distance" why he was not in business or 1st class in the first place?



Because it's less expensive to get the breathing space in the seats he had rather than in the fancier sections.


----------



## superodalisque (Feb 16, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> Because it's less expensive to get the breathing space in the seats he had rather than in the fancier sections.



not by that much. business or 1st isn't that much more than buying 2 seats.


----------



## Blackjack (Feb 16, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> not by that much. business or 1st isn't that much more than buying 2 seats.



He's stated that he buys 2 seats regularly because he can afford to, as he's actually very shy in situations where you're forced into being crammed in with people. This means that he'd have to buy two seats in the other sections as well.


----------



## Blackjack (Feb 16, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i can understand why a lot of people can relate to him. but its more than about policy...



This post is like the Uncle Ruckus of fatness.


----------



## superodalisque (Feb 16, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> He's stated that he buys 2 seats regularly because he can afford to, as he's actually very shy in situations where you're forced into being crammed in with people. This means that he'd have to buy two seats in the other sections as well.



no business and 1st class seats are further apart generally speaking unless you are on a smaller plane. you have about ten inchess or more worth of armrest alone between you and the other person. the seats are big enough that you can fit comfortably as well. i'm sure my hips are much wider than his but i am very comfy in those seats. even 2 coach seats are a misery im comparison. so you really aren't generally in anyone's face the way you are in coach. besides that the people in those seats are much less likely to go bonkers if you sit next to them and you are a celeb.


----------



## Blackjack (Feb 16, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> no business and 1st class seats are further apart generally speaking unless you are on a smaller plane. you have about ten inchess or more worth of armrest alone between you and the other person. the seats are big enough that you can fit comfortably as well. i'm sure my hips are much wider than his but i am very comfy in those seats. even 2 coach seats are a misery im comparison. so you really aren't generally in anyone's face the way you are in coach.



And he's said that he buys two seats so that he doesn't have anyone next to him if he can help it. I don't think that ten inches would really fix his social attitude towards the situation.


----------



## superodalisque (Feb 16, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> And he's said that he buys two seats so that he doesn't have anyone next to him if he can help it. I don't think that ten inches would really fix his social attitude towards the situation.



going by what i've seen of him i don't think its as much of a problem as he would like to lead people to believe--just saying. but you'll find out in the next few days. its all just a little too convienient.


----------



## mszwebs (Feb 16, 2010)

Actually, Felecia, he had paid for the Business Select tickets that SouthWest offers.

He flies 1st class when going cross country, but this was an hour flight from Burbank to Oakland. All the seats are the same width. 17 inches.

And he did tell Suzanne that he had 2 seats, which is why she initially questioned him about it befotr she issued him the 1 standby boarding pass.


I really don't think that someone who, if they do (and we cannot say they don't until we have proof) fit in the seat with the arm rests down, is asking someone else to take responsibility for their fat.

He brings up an extremely good point in his SModcast and its something that every fat person on this board can relate to.

Every fat person on this board knows as well as I do that we check out these situations before we proceed. We eye up every nook and cranny and make sure our ass is not going to get stuck and cause a scene. That being the case, why would a fat person put themselves into a position to be ridiculed on purpose?

To be honest, SouthWest's policy isn't a secret...it's not as if there haven't been stories about fat people flyin' and encroaching on others' space and OMFG ban them from the skies cause they're using my fuel/space/touching my leg/eating my peanuts taking up reasonable amounts of news space for the last few years. He couldn't have been totally oblivious because he eventually figured out what she was talking about when she told him he was a "safety concern."

It's a pretty big (ha) risk to take that you're going to be thrown off a flight just for a friggin publicity stunt.

I think that this is turning into a prime example of being careful what you wish for. Its true. If this was your average fat person, no one would give a shit, which is unfair. And yes, there is certainly plenty of negative attention being brought to the story, just like there is in every other story that doesn't involve massive weight loss.

But rather than complain about how he's doing nothing for the Size Acceptance movement because he's a fatty trying to mush into one seat, how about we push the message that it's not the policy that has to change (I understand I take up more than 1 seat and that I have to pay for 2)but the method of enforcing it.





PS. Sorry about the emphasis in all caps. I didn't realize how ridiculous that looked until I went back. I'll fix it lol.


----------



## TraciJo67 (Feb 16, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> no business and 1st class seats are further apart generally speaking unless you are on a smaller plane. you have about ten inchess or more worth of armrest alone between you and the other person. the seats are big enough that you can fit comfortably as well. i'm sure my hips are much wider than his but i am very comfy in those seats. even 2 coach seats are a misery im comparison. so you really aren't generally in anyone's face the way you are in coach. besides that the people in those seats are much less likely to go bonkers if you sit next to them and you are a celeb.


 
SuperO, SW Airlines doesn't offer business or first class. The entire plane is one class of seating, and who occupies each seat is on a first-come, first-served basis. That is why Kevin Smith typically purchases 2 seats instead of flying business or first class, which I assume would be his first choice. The seats are cheap, comparatively (you can fly on SW to just about anywhere for about $200 round-trip). SW ensures that 2 seats are available by blocking them off before people are allowed to board.

I agree with the people of size policy, actually -- but I don't think that it should be enforced by gate agents and ticket collectors (who cannot check to see if the person in question can fit into a seat with both armrests down), and clearly, all of the employees need some sensitivity training. Kevin Smith is a big guy, but he sure doesn't look like he can't occupy just one seat.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe (Feb 16, 2010)

Here's an interesting question:

If Canada has implemented a law whereby people of size only pay for one seat, and their airlines have not suffered a severe loss in profitability as a direct result, why can't the U.S.? The airlines would like us to believe it would bankrupt them... I believe Canada is proof to the contrary.

Re: Kevin Smith specifically, IIRC he mentions in his SModcast that he's lost quite a bit of weight (and I think he said regained most, but still). Wondering if it's possible he's substantially smaller than when supero saw him. Even if he's not, *if it's true* that he could put the armrests down and buckle his seat belt (and we have no evidence to the contrary) there's no way he should have been kicked off that flight.


----------



## CrankySpice (Feb 16, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i can understand why a lot of people can relate to him. but its more than about policy. its about not being rude to other people that you're flying with. if he did have a ticket for 2 seats to begin with he should have reinforced that when he was on standby--and standby means just that, standing by. i have been travling alone fat for a long time and i recognize the need to reinforce certain things if i want to change my plans last minute. i just think he needs to grow up. other people get inconvienienced for all kinds of reasons at the airports.
> 
> secondly he is much bigger than he leads people to understand in his blogs. he's about my size now--pretty much a super bhm. i don't think he is telling the whole truth. he is in denial about all kinds of things including his weight. going by years of traveling myself i know i have never purposefully been treated badly by an airline-- that includes flying internationally and sometimes flying last minute coach. i'm pretty sure if there had actually been two seats available he would have had them. i have seen airlines make accommodations for people when there were many times in the past. i think he likes publicity since before this nobdy really cared where he was and what he was doing that much.
> 
> ...



#1 - he does fly business class. But business class on SW doesn't grant a larger seat, just priority boarding and free booze.

#2 - he has actually lost quite a bit of weight recently. While I agree that at times in his life, he has certainly qualified for the 2 seats, at his current size, he does not. Besides which, he met the criteria AS SET BY SOUTHWEST for the 2 seat issue.

#3 - both he AND HIS VERY THIN WIFE always purchase 2 tickets for reasons of comfort and privacy, not because he "needs" it because of his size. They purchase a 3rd seat when traveling together so they don't have to share a row with a stranger.

#4 - it's kind of scary how similar your post is to many of those responding to news stories who don't bother to read the entire story or find out more information before making assumptions. All that's missing is the "lose some weight, lardass".


----------



## CrankySpice (Feb 16, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i agree. overall he is an ass and its going to end up making people lose a lot of the empathy they would ordinarily have in a situation like this. wait, its going to get worse. he doesn't really give a damn about fat people. he's digusted with his own weight. all he is doing is riding the publicity.



Jesus Christ, that's a pretty freaking harsh judgement, aside from being completely wrong. 

Although at least now I get your responses - it has nothing to do with the issue, it has to do with the fact that you, for some unknown and unmentioned reason, hate Kevin Smith. 

At least that provides some insight into your bizarre commentary on a topic you haven't researched beyond reading one or two headlines.


----------



## exile in thighville (Feb 16, 2010)

never understood why each airplane isn't equipped with a couple "fat seats" or some varied size seats. couldn't hurt considering most humans are diff sizes.


----------



## TraciJo67 (Feb 16, 2010)

CrankySpice said:


> Jesus Christ, that's a pretty freaking harsh judgement, aside from being completely wrong.
> 
> Although at least now I get your responses - it has nothing to do with the issue, it has to do with the fact that you, for some unknown and unmentioned reason, hate Kevin Smith.
> 
> At least that provides some insight into your bizarre commentary on a topic you haven't researched beyond reading one or two headlines.


 
CS, I actually feel the same way that SuperO does about Kevin Smith. I don't know him, I have no vested feelings one way or the other. I haven't seen 'Clerks' or any other Kevin Smith movie. My feelings come from seeing his Tweet comments, which after 50+ messages veered from morally outraged into just plain obnoxious. Do you really feel that he's doing something great for size acceptance? If so, have you seen the comments that his tweets have inspired on the SW Airlines page? Do you think that he cares one whit, either way? Seems to me his outrage has a lot more to do with his overly inflated opinion of who he is, and the accommodations that he feels he should have received, than with the Size Nazi policy itself.


----------



## CrankySpice (Feb 16, 2010)

TraciJo67 said:


> CS, I actually feel the same way that SuperO does about Kevin Smith. I don't know him, I have no vested feelings one way or the other. I haven't seen 'Clerks' or any other Kevin Smith movie. My feelings come from seeing his Tweet comments, which after 50+ messages veered from morally outraged into just plain obnoxious. Do you really feel that he's doing something great for size acceptance? If so, have you seen the comments that his tweets have inspired on the SW Airlines page? Do you think that he cares one whit, either way? Seems to me his outrage has a lot more to do with his overly inflated opinion of who he is, and the accommodations that he feels he should have received, than with the Size Nazi policy itself.



Yes, I do believe that he is doing something for size acceptance. And yes, I do believe he cares - you would, too, if you'd listened to his smodcast about the issue. He clearly feels very passionately about the inhumane way people are treated when SW "enforces" their policies.

Believe it or not, Kevin Smith was once upon a time just a regular old fat guy. So, now that he's famous, why are you assuming his issues with what happened have more to do with his fame instead of his humanity? 

Yes, he's a smart ass. Yes, he drops the f-bomb like nobody's business. Yes, he often speaks (or tweets) in the heat of the moment before he thinks. I can think of several people, including myself, who meet that profile. It doesn't mean that he, or I, or anyone else with a big mouth, doesn't care passionately about an issue.


----------



## Saoirse (Feb 16, 2010)

-KS asked the two ladies he was sitting between, if he was bothering them. They both replied NO.

-SWA doesnt exactly have a "business" class. They do have some sort of upgrade, which KS paid for.

Listen to the SModcast, listen to the way he talks about the chick on his flight. The pain and anger he felt for her is apparent.


----------



## butch (Feb 16, 2010)

I've never flown Southwest, for this exact reason, but on other airlines that I have flown, one business or first class seat is ALWAYS more expensive then two coach seats, which is why I would purchase 2 coach seats. Now that I've lost some weight (maybe Kevin Smith and I are the same size now, lol), I can fly comfortably in one seat without encroaching on the seat next to me, and I am more than 150 pounds 'overweight.' The armrest can be down, I don't need an extender, and since I'm not pear shaped, all my appleness and big legs fit fine within the 17 inches of my coach space. 

However, I take up every milimeter of that space, and I can see some fatphobe thinking because my belly might be thisclose to the person sitting next to me, even if I'm not in their space at all, that I am the one who should be removed, and not the average sized person next to me who is scared of the 'obesity cooties.' Since I no longer own a car, I see this happen all the time on subways and buses-people who will not sit next to my fat ass even though there is plenty of roon for their not fat ass because being thisclose to a fat person is offensive to them, and I don't think we should ever condone that behavior that is all about discrimination and not about human decency.

I'm happy to make others comfortable, and I go out of my way to make sure my fat isn't making someone else's ability to take up space physically uncomfortable, but I'm not interested in doing more than others to keep someone from being uncomfortable mentally about being in close proximity to my fat, and I'm sorry, but I think anyone who has a mental hang up about my body, and feels like they are justified in complaining about it, deserves no concessions from me, or from Kevin Smith, for that matter.


----------



## mszwebs (Feb 16, 2010)

TraciJo67 said:


> CS, I actually feel the same way that SuperO does about Kevin Smith. I don't know him, I have no vested feelings one way or the other. I haven't seen 'Clerks' or any other Kevin Smith movie. My feelings come from seeing his Tweet comments, which after 50+ messages veered from morally outraged into just plain obnoxious. Do you really feel that he's doing something great for size acceptance? If so, have you seen the comments that his tweets have inspired on the SW Airlines page? Do you think that he cares one whit, either way? Seems to me his outrage has a lot more to do with his overly inflated opinion of who he is, and the accommodations that he feels he should have received, than with the Size Nazi policy itself.



I really don't think that at the time he was sending those tweets, he gave a shit about Size Acceptance, Tracy...and who knows if he cares about it now, to be honest. He was pissed off about getting kicked off a plane for not fitting their flying criteria, when he states that he did (passing the "arm rest" test, in this case) and had a platform to straight up bitch about it, and did so. He ADMITS that that is what he did in the SModcast. That he took advantage of the platform that he had in order to blow off steam, and that he would have stopped bitching had he not seen the woman on his 2nd flight have the same thing happen to her.


If you look at the more recent tweets that he's sent, nothing is particularly obnoxious. I just read everything from yesterday.

And really, I'm not even a Kevin Smith fan. I like Dogma, but this isn't me rushing to identify with him and be all OMFG because I'm a huge (ha) fan. I could give a shite whether he makes another movie or not.


As far as having created negative comments on the SWA page, how is this story any different from any of the other "Fatties on a Plane" stories out there - for example, the story where the flight attendant took the pic of the man who was halfway hanging off his seat that was out there for all the world to see, or the number of stories that have been in the news about SWA's policy (Most recently the guy who missed his uncle's funeral because of the policy), except that it involves someone famous?

I want to be clear that I am not arguing the policy. Ginny makes an interesting point, but that is for another thread, and while it is as expensive as shit, I am at this time, perfectly content to suck it up and have 2 seats, because that way, I actually get to put the friggin tray table down. 

All I'm saying is that he has a right to be outraged if the story actually went down the way he says it did (and I urge people to actually take the time and listen to the SModcast, because otherwise you're passing judgment without hearing both sides) and while his initial outrage may have been for himself, after listening to him tell the story, I believe that seeing the woman have the same thing happen really DID make him angry, and I hope that SWA actually does look at their policy - or more importantly, how it is enforced - as they have indicated to Smith that they will. If all of this outrage accomplishes that, regardless of on whose behalf, then take the victory where you can get it.


On a side note, I can't begrudge him his initial tweets because when I had a problem with jeans at OneStopPlus, I sent out a series of tweets about the quality of their Mainstreet Blues 5 pocket jeans, detailing that I had to go through about 5 pairs of before finding one that I could actually wear. I also left a nasty message on their facebook page...so I understand the need to bleat out your anger in public fashion.

I can't honestly say that I wouldn't have done the exact same thing if I were a person with a platform as large as Smith's, and if I was able to comply with SWA's policy of fitting in a seat with the armrests down, having been asked to leave the plane.


----------



## fatgirlflyin (Feb 16, 2010)

mszwebs said:


> And he did tell Suzanne that he had 2 seats, which is why she initially questioned him about it befotr she issued him the 1 standby boarding pass.



Exactly, that gate agent dropped the ball in a very big way. I'm guessing its not too fun for her at work right now.




mszwebs said:


> But rather than complain about how he's doing nothing for the Size Acceptance movement because he's a fatty trying to mush into one seat, how about we push the message that it's not the policy that has to change (I understand I take up more than 1 seat and that I have to pay for 2)but the method of enforcing it.
> 
> .



There are a couple of problems with enforcing this type of policy, one being that everyone views "too fat" in very different ways. I can pretty much guarantee that me and a coworker can look at the very same fat passenger and have two very different opinions about whether or not the 2nd seat policy needs to be enforced. Another is that despite all the hooting and hollering by people, that's not a conversation many people enjoy having. No one likes going up to a complete stranger and telling them that they are too fat to fit in one seat, no matter what words they use to do it. 

The only real solution is to educate passengers as much as possible, make them aware of the 2nd seat policy. Most fat people who know they need two seats buy two seats. Its the people who don't travel often, who may not be as educated about the airline policy that purchase one when they need a second. Its not usually a problem unless its during a busy travele time and flights are reallly full. Unfortunately with airlines losing money and cutting back their schedules, more and more flights are going out at capacity.


----------



## fatgirlflyin (Feb 16, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i think the fat woman should have bought 2 seats to begin with as well--just out of common everyday politeness. there aren't usually extra seats as much as there used to be anymore. its rude to inconvienience people because you need to ask if you can encroach on a seat someone has already paid for. what if they are a claustrophobic or something? we need to just be responsible for our own fat and stop pretending its someone else's responsibility.
> 
> i wonder why if he really wanted "distance" why he was not in business or 1st class in the first place?





Maybe the fat woman isn't a frequent flyer. Maybe it was her first flight ever and she just didn't know that she might be too wide to fit into one seat. The airlines do not make the second seat policy an easy thing to see. Usually you have to go looking for it in whatever their "know before you go" section is. It wasn't a full flight, so it would have been insanely easy for the agent to just kindly, and privately let the lady know about the airlines policy, making her aware for next time. She didn't need to be humiliated the way she was. I'm not a big fan of Kevin Smith, his type of humor isn't my cup of tea, but I admire what he is doing here. You know, even if its for the publicity its putting an issue out there for the airlines to deal with. I can imagine that because of all the press this is getting all the airlines policy makers are going to put their heads together to figure out a way to enforce this policy in the kindest way possible. 

Technically once a passenger is seated on the airplane they can't be removed without denied passenger compensation, unless they are drunk or classified as a safety risk. I wonder if that safey risk line was just a way for SW to get out of paying the man.


----------



## Pharadox (Feb 16, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> never understood why each airplane isn't equipped with a couple "fat seats" or some varied size seats. couldn't hurt considering most humans are diff sizes.



Institutionalized sizism. It doesn't occur to them to make that accommodation. And it could "hurt" because then they would "lose money", having fewer seats to accommodate for the larger seats, among other various ways they could site it as a loss. Never mind the vast number of flights that fly with empty seats anyway and yet they manage to survive that loss. Of course, they might be willing if they could charge double for those larger seats.

The problem with institutionalized discrimination of any kind is that in order to overcome it, it often requires capital risk and people care more about money. It's amazing we managed to get seatbelt extenders out of them. And even then it was with disdain as the flight attendant grumbles about having to go out of his or her way to fetch one for you.


----------



## TraciJo67 (Feb 16, 2010)

CrankySpice said:


> Yes, I do believe that he is doing something for size acceptance. And yes, I do believe he cares - you would, too, if you'd listened to his smodcast about the issue. He clearly feels very passionately about the inhumane way people are treated when SW "enforces" their policies.
> 
> Believe it or not, Kevin Smith was once upon a time just a regular old fat guy. So, now that he's famous, why are you assuming his issues with what happened have more to do with his fame instead of his humanity?
> 
> Yes, he's a smart ass. Yes, he drops the f-bomb like nobody's business. Yes, he often speaks (or tweets) in the heat of the moment before he thinks. I can think of several people, including myself, who meet that profile. It doesn't mean that he, or I, or anyone else with a big mouth, doesn't care passionately about an issue.


 
CS, I did listen to his smodcast - at least, the first 15 minutes or so. I had a different opinion about his motivation. He's clearly angry and upset, and I'm not blaming him for that. Additionally, I understand that the 'passenger of size' policy is not enforced with any degree of consistency, far less humanely. And I understand - intimately - what it feels like to board a plane, every (hostile) eye on you, the relief palpable as you pass on through each row. I wish that the airlines would reconsider their policy, but that isn't going to happen. The problem, as I see it, is two-fold: First, the airline industry is in the business to make a profit, and we the passengers will tolerate a lot of their bottom-line inconveniences in order to save a few dollars. Second, the general public is generally not sympathetic to the plight of fat passengers. I'm not sure that Kevin Smith's outraged tweets -- especially as they went on and on -- is going to do a thing towards changing that perspective. I'm already naturally inclined to supporting a 'fat passenger bill of rights' and his behavior made me think nothing more than that he's a gigantic gaping a-hole. 

Speaking of size acceptance, have you seen his latest remarks? Something along the line of, "Ok, yeah, I'm a fatty but I'm not THAT fat." Oh really, Kevin? So if you were "one of those" fatties, getting ejected from your flight would have been just fine?


----------



## disconnectedsmile (Feb 16, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i can understand why a lot of people can relate to him. but its more than about policy. its about not being rude to other people that you're flying with. if he did have a ticket for 2 seats to begin with he should have reinforced that when he was on standby--and standby means just that, standing by. i have been travling alone fat for a long time and i recognize the need to reinforce certain things if i want to change my plans last minute. i just think he needs to grow up. other people get inconvienienced for all kinds of reasons at the airports.



If you took an hour and a half of your time and listened to his very enlightening podcast (http://www.smodcast.com), you’d know that he wasn’t the only one being inconvenienced.

On his very next flight, he sat to next to another fat woman who was given the same lousy treatment, and had to face public belittlement and humiliation.
This isn’t a celebrity publicly whining. This is a human being on planet earth publicly questioning the fucked up policies of a blind and heartless corporate machine.



superodalisque said:


> why can't we just pay for the seats for now and work really hard on changing what the airlines are doing?


Why couldn’t Rosa Parks just change her seat on the bus, and wait around for the bus line to change their racist policy?


----------



## exile in thighville (Feb 16, 2010)

Pharadox said:


> Institutionalized sizism. It doesn't occur to them to make that accommodation. And it could "hurt" because then they would "lose money", having fewer seats to accommodate for the larger seats, among other various ways they could site it as a loss. Never mind the vast number of flights that fly with empty seats anyway and yet they manage to survive that loss. Of course, they might be willing if they could charge double for those larger seats.
> 
> The problem with institutionalized discrimination of any kind is that in order to overcome it, it often requires capital risk and people care more about money. It's amazing we managed to get seatbelt extenders out of them. And even then it was with disdain as the flight attendant grumbles about having to go out of his or her way to fetch one for you.



it was a rhetorical question


----------



## exile in thighville (Feb 16, 2010)

disconnectedsmile said:


> Why couldnt Rosa Parks just change her seat on the bus, and wait around for the bus line to change their racist policy?



man what in the


----------



## BigCutieSasha (Feb 16, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> never understood why each airplane isn't equipped with a couple "fat seats" or some varied size seats. couldn't hurt considering most humans are diff sizes.



I like this idea. Kinda like business class with the extra leg room that can be available to upgrade for a small fee. And when I said small fee, I mean smaller than the cost of a whole 2nd seat. 



BigBeautifulMe said:


> Here's an interesting question:
> 
> If Canada has implemented a law whereby people of size only pay for one seat, and their airlines have not suffered a severe loss in profitability as a direct result, why can't the U.S.? The airlines would like us to believe it would bankrupt them... I believe Canada is proof to the contrary.


I knew I loved Canada for a reason other than their hot fat ladies.


----------



## exile in thighville (Feb 16, 2010)

i love them for their stringent hiring policies


----------



## exile in thighville (Feb 16, 2010)

all this could've been avoided if smith had only flown


----------



## CrankySpice (Feb 16, 2010)

TraciJo67 said:


> CS, I did listen to his smodcast - at least, the first 15 minutes or so. I had a different opinion about his motivation. He's clearly angry and upset, and I'm not blaming him for that. Additionally, I understand that the 'passenger of size' policy is not enforced with any degree of consistency, far less humanely. And I understand - intimately - what it feels like to board a plane, every (hostile) eye on you, the relief palpable as you pass on through each row. I wish that the airlines would reconsider their policy, but that isn't going to happen. The problem, as I see it, is two-fold: First, the airline industry is in the business to make a profit, and we the passengers will tolerate a lot of their bottom-line inconveniences in order to save a few dollars. Second, the general public is generally not sympathetic to the plight of fat passengers. I'm not sure that Kevin Smith's outraged tweets -- especially as they went on and on -- is going to do a thing towards changing that perspective. I'm already naturally inclined to supporting a 'fat passenger bill of rights' and his behavior made me think nothing more than that he's a gigantic gaping a-hole.
> 
> Speaking of size acceptance, have you seen his latest remarks? Something along the line of, "Ok, yeah, I'm a fatty but I'm not THAT fat." Oh really, Kevin? So if you were "one of those" fatties, getting ejected from your flight would have been just fine?



I think he would've been just as outraged - he expressed empathy for a fatter (according to him, to be fair) guy on the same flight from which he was removed with whom he made eye contact with as he was grabbing his bag. He could have made a fuss about that fatter fatty, but he didn't.

A very close friend of mine also had bad feelings about the "not THAT fat" comment. It irked me when I first read it, too, but in thinking about it, he's not making a judgment on people who are "that fat", he was just saying that he's not (at this time) fat enough to require a second seat. And, according to their policy, he isn't. He didn't dis people who are fatter than he is, he didn't "thank god" he wasn't "that fat" (he actually states in his podcast that he was much bigger at one point), he just stated that he wasn't fat enough for the policy to apply to him.

And like mszwebs, I'm not a groveling fan of Smith - I really loved Dogma, thought Clerks was okay and have never seen any of his other movies. I never even knew that he had a regular podcast until this issue came up, and didn't listen to any of the others on his site because, frankly, I'm not interested.


----------



## Miss Vickie (Feb 16, 2010)

fatgirlflyin said:


> Exactly, that gate agent dropped the ball in a very big way. I'm guessing its not too fun for her at work right now.



It sounded like he was booted because he was the last passenger on? Because they needed the seat for another passenger who'd bought a second seat? However, unless those two people he sat between were who'd bought the extra seat, how did booting him help that situation? If you read the follow up, he's talked with a rep, Linda, who said it had nothing to do with his size... except that apparently according to the one gate agent, it did. They really need to figure out what their story is and stick with it. They look like morons.

BTW, I'm glad you checked in on this issue. You can see things from both sides, which is usually helpful for us to understand it from the airline's perspective.



> There are a couple of problems with enforcing this type of policy, one being that everyone views "too fat" in very different ways. I can pretty much guarantee that me and a coworker can look at the very same fat passenger and have two very different opinions about whether or not the 2nd seat policy needs to be enforced.



It does seem pretty subjective. Again, from the follow up, they claim that the women on either side of him were "leaning away" from him, but he claims they were already doing that (one was sleeping against the wall and the other was leaning into the aisle) before he sat down. Also, I routinely lean away from the middle person while they're getting settled because getting settled requires maneuvering and they -- even thin people -- need the extra room, usually. Is that an indictment on their size? No. 

Have they ever considered having a mock up of a seat in a private area where people can test out the seats? That seems like it might solve some of the problems, for people who are borderline. Also, I wonder... will they ever make a body builder or football player buy a second seat because their bulky shoulders 'encroach'? I'm guessing not. But it's easy to pick on the fat person. 



TraciJo67 said:


> CS, I did listen to his smodcast - at least, the first 15 minutes or so.



Yeah, to really understand, you need to listen to the whole thing. The first 15 minutes are just him kvetching, not telling the whole story. It was a PITA -- kept buffering -- but I'm glad I listened to it because the whole thing is just so egregiously awful. I'm not a huge Kevin Smith fan (loved Dogma but that's about it) but his treatment was horrible, and what they did to the young lady was worse. But unfortunately, to get there you have to sit through a lot of silly stuff.



> I'm not sure that Kevin Smith's outraged tweets -- especially as they went on and on -- is going to do a thing towards changing that perspective. I'm already naturally inclined to supporting a 'fat passenger bill of rights' and his behavior made me think nothing more than that he's a gigantic gaping a-hole.



I see your point. He isn't exactly the most... sympathetic ... poster boy for fat acceptance while flying, is he? But at least he's speaking out, which I think is good. There may be a backlash but the people who say negative shit would have done that anyway because either a) they hate Kevin Smith, b) they hate fat people, or c) both.



> Speaking of size acceptance, have you seen his latest remarks? Something along the line of, "Ok, yeah, I'm a fatty but I'm not THAT fat." Oh really, Kevin? So if you were "one of those" fatties, getting ejected from your flight would have been just fine?



Nah, what he said was that if he needed two seats he'd have bought them. But that he felt that he wasn't *that* fat, meaning not fat enough to need two seats. He has bought two seats in the past for his own privacy, and because he has the money. Not because he's too fat and needs them. Clearly he hates being fat and isn't going to join Dimensions and sing fat kum bay yah, but he's outraged at another fat person being treated like shit for being fat which I think is pretty cool.


----------



## TraciJo67 (Feb 16, 2010)

Miss Vickie said:


> Yeah, to really understand, you need to listen to the whole thing. The first 15 minutes are just him kvetching, not telling the whole story. It was a PITA -- kept buffering -- but I'm glad I listened to it because the whole thing is just so egregiously awful. I'm not a huge Kevin Smith fan (loved Dogma but that's about it) but his treatment was horrible, and what they did to the young lady was worse. But unfortunately, to get there you have to sit through a lot of silly stuff.


 
Well, it's my lunch hour and I'm listening to it right now. I tried last night -- I really did, but damn, it bored me after 5 minutes and grew excruciating at the 15 minute mark. 

So I skipped through the initial "booted off" flight and am now listening to what happened on the 2nd flight. I have very mixed feelings about it, actually. His empathy for the woman who was "advised" to purchase another seat in the future is obvious, but I'm wondering if it's also a bit misplaced. I wonder how she would feel, hearing herself being described as he describes her, this pitiable girl with her vulnerabilities about her size written all over her poor face? Who wants to be described in that manner? I think he's assuming far too much about her. What the stewardess did to her was uncalled for, but we don't know that the underlying motivation was a "thin bitch telling some woman that she's fat just because she can" (which is what Kevin Smith assumes). Perhaps the stewardess misguidedly, ridiculously, assumed that she was being kind in forewarning the woman that she may have difficulty with future flights. At least she pulled the woman aside. There are some fat-phobic jackasses who wouldn't think twice about booting her off the plane immediately - or giving her the "you're too fat" speech in front of other passengers. 

I've listened to the past half hour, and feel that it's a half hour of my life that I'll never get back, frankly  Fuck fuck fuck fuck 'em, fuck 'em, fuck 'em, fuck 'em, fuckety fuckin' fuck 'em. Had he eliminated the gratuitous outrage (you know, contained it to 50 fuck 'ems instead of 500), he'd have cut the airtime by more than half.


----------



## phoenix92901 (Feb 16, 2010)

MsSasha said:


> I <3 him. Even if he did make Jersey Girl.



It wasn't one of his best movies but I have a soft spot for Jersey Girl, even if J-Lo was in it.


----------



## superodalisque (Feb 16, 2010)

TraciJo67 said:


> Well, it's my lunch hour and I'm listening to it right now. I tried last night -- I really did, but damn, it bored me after 5 minutes and grew excruciating at the 15 minute mark.
> 
> So I skipped through the initial "booted off" flight and am now listening to what happened on the 2nd flight. I have very mixed feelings about it, actually. His empathy for the woman who was "advised" to purchase another seat in the future is obvious, but I'm wondering if it's also a bit misplaced. I wonder how she would feel, hearing herself being described as he describes her, this pitiable girl with her vulnerabilities about her size written all over her poor face? Who wants to be described in that manner? I think he's assuming far too much about her. What the stewardess did to her was uncalled for, but we don't know that the underlying motivation was a "thin bitch telling some woman that she's fat just because she can" (which is what Kevin Smith assumes). Perhaps the stewardess misguidedly, ridiculously, assumed that she was being kind in forewarning the woman that she may have difficulty with future flights. At least she pulled the woman aside. There are some fat-phobic jackasses who wouldn't think twice about booting her off the plane immediately - or giving her the "you're too fat" speech in front of other passengers.
> 
> I've listened to the past half hour, and feel that it's a half hour of my life that I'll never get back, frankly  Fuck fuck fuck fuck 'em, fuck 'em, fuck 'em, fuck 'em, fuckety fuckin' fuck 'em. Had he eliminated the gratuitous outrage (you know, contained it to 50 fuck 'ems instead of 500), he'd have cut the airtime by more than half.



yeah it was a waste of my time too. it only reinforced what i thought in the 1st place. he's flown before and he should know better. i could have understood if he was an inexpienced flier. i wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't the exact reason why they gave the fat woman a break. i hadn't known that southwest didn't have business and 1st class anymore. the last time i flew it did but that was ages ago. if you fly cut rate you're going to get cut rate service. if you fly standby and you're the last person on its also risky. add your size and that is another element. he should have been prepared to get off if he had to but instead he threw a media tantrum. he should have just taken 2 seats on the next flight. i do think the gate agent dropped the ball but thats bound to happen sometimes on standby. thats why its called standby--because you are taking a risk. its very common. i think he knew that but decided to make a big deal out of it for attention. if the airlines intended on being size discrimminatory why didn't they put off the woman and the other man he was speaking of?

i don't buy the "i felt sorrier for the fat woman routine either". i think it was all about him. if he was so caring once he got on and saw the situtation he would have gotten off himself since he was just standby. who knows maybe theyhad to use his seat to accommodate that woman or someone else. we can't be sure. and thats why when we are fat we need to be careful and thoughtful because maybe we could cause someone else to be booted from a plane. also he should have never tried for one seat when he usually required 2 by his own admission. the problem in the US is that we have lot of very rude people with bad manners. the airlines are rude but the customers are also very rude. people now could care less about the people they fly with. if they gave any serious thought to that before they flew there would be a lot fewer problems in general. just relying on policy for what is right doesn't make something right.


----------



## Blackjack (Feb 16, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> *i wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't the exact reason why they gave the fat woman a break*... if the airlines intended on being size discrimminatory why didn't *they put off the woman *and the other man he was speaking of?
> 
> i don't buy the "i felt sorrier for the fat woman routine either". i think it was all about him. if he was so caring once he got on and saw the situtation he would have gotten off himself since he was just standby. *who knows maybe theyhad to use his seat to accommodate that woman* or someone else.



If you're stating this, then it's obvious that you haven't listened to the Smodcast or what anyone here has said. The woman who was having the issue was on his original flight, not the one he was on standby for.



> also he should have never tried for one seat when he usually required 2 by his own admission.



He doesn't *require* two, he *prefers* two for privacy and personal space reasons. He wanted to try and get an earlier flight because he arrived way early.


----------



## superodalisque (Feb 16, 2010)

Blackjack said:


> If you're stating this, then it's obvious that you haven't listened to the Smodcast or what anyone here has said. The woman who was having the issue was on his original flight, not the one he was on standby for.
> 
> 
> 
> He doesn't *require* two, he *prefers* two for privacy and personal space reasons. He wanted to try and get an earlier flight because he arrived way early.



i have to admit i didn't hear that part becuase i was multi tasking as usual. i need to stop that


----------



## disconnectedsmile (Feb 16, 2010)

Kevin recently posted a blog on the subject: http://silentbobspeaks.com/?p=393

seems Southwest is sticking to their argument that Mr. Smith "needed more than one seat for his comfort and those seated next to him."
despite the fact that the people seated next to him were not visibly uncomfortable. (SWA's statement: http://www.blogsouthwest.com/blog/my-conversation-with-kevin-smith-0)

draw your own judgments, folks, but i'm with Kevin on this one.


----------



## Rowan (Feb 16, 2010)

fatgirlflyin said:


> Maybe the fat woman isn't a frequent flyer. Maybe it was her first flight ever and she just didn't know that she might be too wide to fit into one seat. The airlines do not make the second seat policy an easy thing to see. Usually you have to go looking for it in whatever their "know before you go" section is. It wasn't a full flight, so it would have been insanely easy for the agent to just kindly, and privately let the lady know about the airlines policy, making her aware for next time. She didn't need to be humiliated the way she was. I'm not a big fan of Kevin Smith, his type of humor isn't my cup of tea, but I admire what he is doing here. You know, even if its for the publicity its putting an issue out there for the airlines to deal with. I can imagine that because of all the press this is getting all the airlines policy makers are going to put their heads together to figure out a way to enforce this policy in the kindest way possible.
> 
> Technically once a passenger is seated on the airplane they can't be removed without denied passenger compensation, unless they are drunk or classified as a safety risk. I wonder if that safey risk line was just a way for SW to get out of paying the man.



I think that perhaps the woman may have also taken her chances with the flight not being full also...because I can guarantee, I'm not rich and I don't make a ton of money and therefore if I plan to fly somewhere, which I havent flown anywhere in many many years, I'm not going to just run right out and buy a second seat. I just can't afford to do that. I don't have that kind of money just laying around. So, it might be possible that the lady was in the same boat, that she couldnt afford to just run off and buy another seat as easy as some people make it sound, and so she took a chance on the flight not being full and making due with her one seat. 

Just a guess. *shrug*


----------



## superodalisque (Feb 16, 2010)

yeah you know what happens though right? people say its okay to be nice and then later they mail the airlines to say how crowded they felt. i wouldn't be surprised if they were worried too that later the crowded in people would have said that a fat customer got preferential treatment because he was a celeb. actually in this situation almost anything the airlines had done would have looked bad to someone. but they should really have just made sure there were actually 2 seats available in the 1st place. if i had seen he had 2 seats for himself before i would have told him that there weren't 2 seats available on that flight and it would be better to wait. hey, but its not as if they didn't at least try to get him on an earlier flight. 

this is why if your fat you just need to buy the two seats to avoid all of the freaking uneccessary drama. then work to change the situtation for everyone by getting all customers to push for roomier seats on all of the airlines in the first place. we had them in the 70s but people prefered the smaller seats and lower prices since in general people were much thinner then. then all of a sudden you had people used to riding the bus on planes and bringing bus manners to air travel--incuding the service. i really hate all of the carry on people keep banging you with and that takes forever for them to load. maybe people would be willing to pay a higher price and have decent seats overall again. i'll personally be glad when the US has rapid rail like other normal industrialized nations. we really need to spend more on infrastructure and provide more sound choices for people anyway like people have elsewhere. i'm amazed when i travel abroad how much easier and more civil everything is. i think we just need more inexpensive reasonable comfortable alternatives for people who really can't afford air travel in the first place.


----------



## Saoirse (Feb 16, 2010)

It was an hour long flight. AN HOUR! If people felt the need to bitch that they had to be on a plane with a fattie for an hour...


----------



## superodalisque (Feb 16, 2010)

Saoirse said:


> It was an hour long flight. AN HOUR! If people felt the need to bitch that they had to be on a plane with a fattie for an hour...



should they have to? its only maybe 45 minutes from atlanta to NY for me but if i was uncomfortable for reasons not my fault for any amount of time for the fees that the airlines charge i would be pissed too. who else do you pay for several hundred dollars an hour? and what do you expect to get for that?


----------



## Larry G (Feb 16, 2010)

I think it's sad how we always seem to attack our own kind, and that's why I see little hope in the fat acceptance movement overall.

I'm not really all that familiar with Kevin Smith, but I know he's a director and that he's outspoken. Perhaps he's not the most eloquent, but you and I both know that a lot of fat people face bigotry and discrimination on a daily basis and just greet it with a muffled sigh and don't say anything. By doing this we are telling the world that it's ok. Well it isn't.

And, if it take someone like Kevin Smith who's somewhat outspoken to raise his voice on this issue, he deserves my support and my admiration. :bow:

Also, one thing I haven't seen mentioned very often, is if you listen at his podcast, he was moved to speak out as much as he did because a young fat lady seated in his row was also talked to by the flight attendants on that plane, and he felt he HAD to do it because he had a daughter and was horrified about the possibility of something similar happening to her. This what he said motivated him.

Instead I see a lot of us just buying what will be the media hype: it was merely a publicity stunt and that maybe we need to watch our waistlines so that this doesn't happen to us. 

Instead of fighting against the real growing crisis in the United States: bigotry and discrimination and the tolerance thereof.

Larry


----------



## Saoirse (Feb 16, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> should they have to? its only maybe 45 minutes from atlanta to NY for me but if i was uncomfortable for reasons not my fault for any amount of time for the fees that the airlines charge i would be pissed too. who else do you pay for several hundred dollars an hour? and what do you expect to get for that?



My point is -and if you had listened to whole podcast- the women he was sitting with weren't uncomfortable. One woman said "It's only an hour flight."

Why are you so adamant the fatties just fucking deal with it? Should every airline just make a standard policy that all customers over 200lbs are mandated to buy to seats, regardless of the seat belt or armrests? I guess if they can afford all that food to shove in their fat faces, then they can afford to buy an extra seat, RIGHT?


jfc


----------



## TraciJo67 (Feb 16, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> should they have to? its only maybe 45 minutes from atlanta to NY for me but if i was uncomfortable for reasons not my fault for any amount of time for the fees that the airlines charge i would be pissed too. who else do you pay for several hundred dollars an hour? and what do you expect to get for that?


 
SuperO, this approach is a very weak one, to me, because it speaks to an entitlement mentality more than anything else.

I have sat by people who were excessively, annoyingly chatty ... I have been nudged and shouldered and rammed by fat and thin people who felt entitled to all of the almost non-existent elbow room, I have sat with children who pooped their pants, I've had my seatback kicked, I've sat with people who thought that dousing themselves in a dense fog of cheap perfume was a perfectly acceptable alternative to bathing. Fact is, unless we travel with a group of people, and pre-book our seats, we don't know what we're going to get. Nor should we feel entitled to a comfortable, clean, quiet passage. We can hope .. but to expect it? I'd demand it if I purchased a first-class seat, but otherwise ... I'm going to grit my teeth and bear it, whatever 'it' may happen to be, up to and including being smooshed next to a larger-than-average passenger. If Kevin Smith could fit into the seat, with both armrests down and the seatbelt buckled, then he clearly met the published guidelines. I don't like his whiny, unoriginal, completely unfunny ranting ... but I haven't missed that he has an actual point.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe (Feb 16, 2010)

Until this country _pays fat people equally_ for the same work, it's going to be hard for us to afford to be able to buy two seats. Maybe if "society" wants there to be more two-seat buying happening, they need to end the bigotry and pay us what we're actually worth.

If that doesn't happen, there's going to continue to be in-flight too-fat-to-fly drama.


----------



## disconnectedsmile (Feb 16, 2010)

*Larry G* and *tres huevos* win the thread.


----------



## altered states (Feb 16, 2010)

I'm amazed at what the airlines get away with. They use "safety" as the excuse to mistreat their passengers, yet if anyone watched the PBS Frontline doc last week, they have no problem seriously compromising their customers' safety for a few shekels: 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...epage&utm_medium=proglist&utm_source=proglist

Airlines are horrible, inefficient businesses, run by scum. They treat their workers like shit and as usual, this has a downhill snowball effect where gate agents, sky waiters, and everyone else don't see the need to treat customers humanely, much less with respect. Every adult who can bathe themselves and read and recite an airline safety card knows how to handle a situation like a too-fat passenger with decorum, which leads me to believe these SW employees consciously chose to take out their frustrations with their employers on the only people they could: customers. Classic bullies. 

I'm honestly not sure where I stand on airlines' second seat policies, but I do know that this thing where they're able to suspend all civil liberties just because you've stepped onto an airplane has to end. If KS met the written criteria for being small enough to fly solo-seated, then that's it, end of story. A ticket is a contract and if he fulfilled his end of the contract -- he paid, and was small enough to squeeze himself in -- then they have to fulfill theirs. But instead they pulled the "safety" card and fucked him over. 

Though possibly misapplied, I don't think the previous Rosa Parks post is totally off-base. Other passengers' comfort? I can guarantee you there were some bus passengers in Alabama back then who would have been very uncomfortable sitting next to a black woman. Should the supreme court have taken their rights as passengers into account? A jewish man was recently thrown off a plane in Minneapolis while performing a 5,000-year-old religious rite because it made some bunch of ignorants "uncomfortable." Similar situations have happened with turban-wearing Sikhs and other people who're just a little too dusky-skinned and long-nosed for red-state America's comfort. Yes, that's right, it's all about passenger comfort. (As any plane passenger of any size will tell you, airlines are all about comfort. That is, just short of making you comfortable.)

So where does it end? You're off because you're fat. You're off because you're famous. You're off because you're swarthy and remind people of 9-11. You're off because WE JUST DON'T LIKE YOU.


----------



## fat hiker (Feb 16, 2010)

disconnectedsmile said:


> no one person should be subjected to paying for two seats.
> every flight passenger should have the same right to comfort.



The "right to comfort"???? Life, liberty, even food and health care, but comfort? 

the founding fathers must be rolling in their graves!!


----------



## fat hiker (Feb 16, 2010)

TraciJo67 said:


> SuperO, this approach is a very weak one, to me, because it speaks to an entitlement mentality more than anything else.
> 
> ...
> Nor should we feel entitled to a comfortable, clean, quiet passage. We can hope .. but to expect it? I'd demand it if I purchased a first-class seat, but otherwise ... I'm going to grit my teeth and bear it, whatever 'it' may happen to be, up to and including being smooshed next to a larger-than-average passenger.



Hear, hear! The 'entitlement' culture is one of the reasons America is going downhill....flying is not a right, folks. It used to be a luxury, and now, with the bargain airlines, it's a bus service in the air at best. If you want more, you have to pay for it - you don't buy a Hyundai Accent and expect to get a Mercedes S class, why should a $99 seat on Southwest entitle you to first class on British Airways???


----------



## Larry G (Feb 16, 2010)

fat hiker said:


> Hear, hear! The 'entitlement' culture is one of the reasons America is going downhill....flying is not a right, folks. It used to be a luxury, and now, with the bargain airlines, it's a bus service in the air at best. If you want more, you have to pay for it - you don't buy a Hyundai Accent and expect to get a Mercedes S class, why should a $99 seat on Southwest entitle you to first class on British Airways???



There's one flaw in your argument. The fat person would accept the seat, but it's the AIRLINE that's enforcing buying a 2nd seat. That's not right. Accommodation for fat people in the air is the law in Canada and it should be the law elsewhere.

The other flaw in your argument is that this isn't 1960. Yes flying used to be a luxury, but in the old days we also had expansive passenger train and bus service, now this is more limited and the airlines have picked up the slack. The internet, also is a luxury. In the old days, our only choices were to spout off our opinions to the newspaper editor and hope against hope we were published. Funny how things change, eh?

Larry


----------



## Rosie (Feb 16, 2010)

I am the first person to say if you take up two seats, you should pay for two seats. However, I went and googled Kevin Smith and looked at his pictures, and he does not look big enough to need two seats. I think Southwest is in the wrong on this one.


----------



## indy500tchr (Feb 16, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> i wonder why if he really wanted "distance" why he was not in business or 1st class in the first place?



Felecia...If you listened to what he had to say you would know that Southwest does not have 1st or business class which is why he buys two seats to distance himself from others.
I know you keep saying that it's common courtesy to buy two seats if you are bigger but if you fit within the guidelines of the airline policy why spend the extra money? It's like asking somebody to buy a second hotel room if you know you are going to be extra loud just so there is a room between you and the next paying customer. There is no need for it.


----------



## 99Haints (Feb 16, 2010)

exile in thighville said:


> kevin smith's being a douche allowing this to turn into an I'M AT MY FATTEST I BROKE A TOILET AND I NEED HELP scenario



After listening to about half the um..smodcast, I'm more inclined to feel this way about it. I can understand him going a little crazy with embarassment and wanting to assert that he's not THAT fat!! Those situations are completely fucked, and I think almost anyone would be inclined to desperately throw out something like that. 

But he also "hates that corporate mentality", yet makes most of his objections as a paying customer, rather than as a person, where he has a better case for being wronged (it's just his word against theirs on the issue of whether he "properly" fit in the seat). But I get not wanting to make the whole thing even more sensitive, too. However...if this is the way he's going to play it, I'm not really interested in anything else he has to say on the matter.

The most disgraceful thing for Southwest is that the woman suspected he would be deemed too fat at the gate, but let him go through the whole ordeal anyway.


----------



## Never2fat4me (Feb 17, 2010)

While not disagreeing with your broader point - namely, that a law should be passed in the U.S. that prevents discriminatory purchasing requirements for people of size - I would nonetheless point out that airfares are considerably higher in Canada, frequently twice as much as similar ones in the U.S. For example, I have a good number of friends in the Toronto area who, when they are travelling to FL, drive down to Buffalo to fly because it is so much cheaper than flying out of Toronto. So with higher prices to begin with, it may be easier for them to absorb the "cost" of a free seat than it would be a U.S. carrier.

Chris



BigBeautifulMe said:


> Here's an interesting question:
> 
> If Canada has implemented a law whereby people of size only pay for one seat, and their airlines have not suffered a severe loss in profitability as a direct result, why can't the U.S.? The airlines would like us to believe it would bankrupt them... I believe Canada is proof to the contrary.
> 
> Re: Kevin Smith specifically, IIRC he mentions in his SModcast that he's lost quite a bit of weight (and I think he said regained most, but still). Wondering if it's possible he's substantially smaller than when supero saw him. Even if he's not, *if it's true* that he could put the armrests down and buckle his seat belt (and we have no evidence to the contrary) there's no way he should have been kicked off that flight.


----------



## CrankySpice (Feb 17, 2010)

Never2fat4me said:


> While not disagreeing with your broader point - namely, that a law should be passed in the U.S. that prevents discriminatory purchasing requirements for people of size - I would nonetheless point out that airfares are considerably higher in Canada, frequently twice as much as similar ones in the U.S. For example, I have a good number of friends in the Toronto area who, when they are travelling to FL, drive down to Buffalo to fly because it is so much cheaper than flying out of Toronto. So with higher prices to begin with, it may be easier for them to absorb the "cost" of a free seat than it would be a U.S. carrier.
> 
> Chris



Is this true for domestic flights within Canada as well? Because I'm sure part of the expense you are talking about in that particular case is the fact that it is technically an international flight. Would it save them money to fly out of Buffalo to, say, Vancouver, BC? (just curious)


----------



## TraciJo67 (Feb 17, 2010)

Anyone seen the latest SMODCAST? The woman that Kevin referred to earlier is now a guest speaker. She's referring to the Vegas bash in the SMODCAST. I'm wondering if she's a member here.

I also looked at SW's "Customer of Size" policy. It reads:

_What is the definitive gauge for a Customer of size?_
_The armrest is the definitive gauge for a Customer of size. It serves as the boundary between seats and measures 17 inches in width. Customers who are unable to lower both armrests *and/or who compromise any portion of adjacent seating* should proactively book the number of seats needed prior to travel._ 

Unfortunately, I think that in Kevin's case, they are probably going to focus on the highlighted wording -- being able to lower the armrests is not, in essense, the definitive guage. Determining whether or not an individual spills over into adjacent seating is incredibly subjective. No wonder there are constant horror stories.

ETA: One thing that became clear from this second Smodcast: The stewardess did not approach Natali to tell her that she should, in the future, purchase an extra ticket. She was in fact hauled off the plane and told that she had to buy a second ticket. When they were unable to locate two adjacent seats for her, she was allowed to reboard the plane. The experience, while mortifying and -- as Natali tells it -- handled insensitively, is *not* the one that Kevin Smith first told.


----------



## CrankySpice (Feb 17, 2010)

TraciJo67 said:


> Anyone seen the latest SMODCAST? The woman that Kevin referred to earlier is now a guest speaker. She's referring to the Vegas bash in the SMODCAST. I'm wondering if she's a member here.
> 
> I also looked at SW's "Customer of Size" policy. It reads:
> 
> ...



Holy crap on a cracker, that is unreal. I'll definitely give it a listen later today. Thanks for the heads up, TJ.


----------



## Saoirse (Feb 17, 2010)

ohmyfuckinggod I LOVE KEVIN SMITH!

That new SModcast is interesting and a good listen and sheds some new light on Southwest's way of business. Kudos to KS and Natali for openly discussing their experiences!


----------



## disconnectedsmile (Feb 17, 2010)

Saoirse said:


> That new SModcast is interesting and a good listen and sheds some new light on Southwest's way of business. Kudos to KS and Natali for openly discussing their experiences!


i'm listening to the new episode (107) now.
it sounds like Southwest really went out of their way to enforce their "policy," at the cost of dehumanizing Natali. and Southwest has yet to respond to her requests to make it right.

Southwest are _totally_ in the wrong here. and i'm glad Kevin and Natali had the courage to tell their story, and let the public know about the *un*friendly skies.


----------



## cinnamitch (Feb 17, 2010)

Today on our local tv network ( KSTP- Minneapolis), there is a show at 3 pm called Twin Cities Live. Pure fluff it is complete with two cute jovial hosts named John and Elizabeth. Well to open the show they had a segment regarding Kevin Smith and doing a panel discussion on whether he should have been made to buy 2 seats and various other issues regarding this incident. Well by panel it was the two hosts, a weatherman and i believe a lady who is a radio personality.I was not looking forward to this and yeah a lot of it was your basic fat bashing. What shocked me though was the male host. He actually went against the majority there and agreed with Kevin and the other lady. He went on to counterpoint every argument the other panelists made. When one of them stated that when you buy seats you have a right to your space, he countered with you have a right to THE SEAT YOU BOUGHT. He said yeah he has been next to heavy folks on a flight and had to lean over and be inconvenienced but he said so what you deal with it.He went so far and to say that fat folk * my words* cant help it, its how they are, and if anything airlines should make bigger seats. He even said well then don't i have rights? So if a skinny stinky person sits next to me, shouldn't they have to leave? I mean this dude was actually standing up for us. Now its not much granted, but the fact he did it spoke to me. I even wrote a letter thanking him for the effort. Every little bit helps. At the end one of the panelists got out the snarky remark that if they are heavy they can control it, they can lose weight, he said you know that's who they are, and they have rights. Now if we can just get a few more to start seeing us as human, just think of the possibilities


----------



## BigBeautifulMe (Feb 17, 2010)

Never2fat4me said:


> While not disagreeing with your broader point - namely, that a law should be passed in the U.S. that prevents discriminatory purchasing requirements for people of size - I would nonetheless point out that airfares are considerably higher in Canada, frequently twice as much as similar ones in the U.S. For example, I have a good number of friends in the Toronto area who, when they are travelling to FL, drive down to Buffalo to fly because it is so much cheaper than flying out of Toronto. So with higher prices to begin with, it may be easier for them to absorb the "cost" of a free seat than it would be a U.S. carrier.
> 
> Chris


Oh, okay, so everyone has to pay twice as much instead of just me? Sounds more fair and less discriminatory to me!


----------



## RJI (Feb 17, 2010)

Never2fat4me said:


> While not disagreeing with your broader point - namely, that a law should be passed in the U.S. that prevents discriminatory purchasing requirements for people of size - I would nonetheless point out that airfares are considerably higher in Canada, frequently twice as much as similar ones in the U.S. For example, I have a good number of friends in the Toronto area who, when they are travelling to FL, drive down to Buffalo to fly because it is so much cheaper than flying out of Toronto. So with higher prices to begin with, it may be easier for them to absorb the "cost" of a free seat than it would be a U.S. carrier.
> 
> Chris



I'm thinking the Canadian Government does not subsidize their Airlines with taxpayer money to the same extent that the U.S. does. So the flights will be a truer cost compared to the bought down price we get here.


----------



## Kortana (Feb 17, 2010)

I admit that I haven't read all the thread so I hope this hasn't bean spoke of but I am curious how those you of who travel alot deal with it. I am a marketing and sales manager and I have to travel to trade shows twice a month starting in March (fairly new to this job). I am in the process of booking a ticket to Orlando and because of budgets I have to take the cheapest flight, it is with Continental. Now,in Canada, the law is that they will give you a second seat- you will not be charged or asked to buy a second one. So I am safe as long as I take a Canadian airline.

Now- I have never had a problem but I am pushing 400lbs and because Westjet is more expensive I can not take that flight. I spoke to Continental and they assured me it would not be problem but you can't help but worry.

Here is my issue...I can not book with Westjet and if I bring it up to my boss he may choose to not bother sending me and chance extra costs (like a 2nd seat or more expensive flight) and just send the person who doesn't have these isses and extra costs....So what do I do? This could affect my job...

What do I do?


----------



## Never2fat4me (Feb 18, 2010)

CrankySpice said:


> Is this true for domestic flights within Canada as well? Because I'm sure part of the expense you are talking about in that particular case is the fact that it is technically an international flight. Would it save them money to fly out of Buffalo to, say, Vancouver, BC? (just curious)



Good question, Cranky! In part I would say that just because a flight is international, it shouldn't cost more (I am not aware of the U.S. charging for Canadian - or any other country's - aircraft for entering U.S. airspace), so other than charges being different at the departing airport (and I suppose labour costs, though Canadians should have an advantage here since our taxes - not our employers - bear most of our healthcare costs), costs should be the same. As for comparing fares, unfortunately your example doesn't work (there are no direct flights from Buffalo to Vancouver), but if you compared, say, Toronto to Montreal to Buffalo to Boston (roughly similar distances, though B to B would be further), the former would cost around $480 and the latter around $200 (according to Expedia for trip for March 11-18). 

Not that there are never any bargains, but generally, domestic air travel in Canada is generally more expensive than it is in the U.S. 

Chris


----------



## olwen (Feb 18, 2010)

Kortana said:


> I admit that I haven't read all the thread so I hope this hasn't bean spoke of but I am curious how those you of who travel alot deal with it. I am a marketing and sales manager and I have to travel to trade shows twice a month starting in March (fairly new to this job). I am in the process of booking a ticket to Orlando and because of budgets I have to take the cheapest flight, it is with Continental. Now,in Canada, the law is that they will give you a second seat- you will not be charged or asked to buy a second one. So I am safe as long as I take a Canadian airline.
> 
> Now- I have never had a problem but I am pushing 400lbs and because Westjet is more expensive I can not take that flight. I spoke to Continental and they assured me it would not be problem but you can't help but worry.
> 
> ...



I have the same exact issues at my job. I work for a nonprofit so they can't afford to pay for two tickets and encourage me to find the cheapest rates possible. Often if I'm picked to go to a conference it's because I'm the only one who can do it at that time. I am terrified every time I have to fly that I will be asked to buy a second seat, which I just can't afford. If the distance is not too far or if it takes less than 24 hours, I take Amtrak. It may mean taking an extra day just for travelling but Amtrak can sometimes be cheaper than a plane. When it isn't I just gotta hope and pray I'll be able to get buy on one airplane seat.


----------



## Ned Sonntag (Feb 18, 2010)

http://salon.com/life/broadsheet/feature/2010/02/16/flying_while_fat/index.html The ever-excellent Kate Harding:wubu::wubu::wubu: waits 'til the end to drop a well-placed F-bomb in covering the issue at DIMz 'sister publication' Salon Dot Com...


----------



## TallFatSue (Feb 18, 2010)

I'm not following this very closely, but I'll be interested in what comes from this after the dust settles. Methinx Kevin Smith is milking the situation for publicity, but that's fine with me if it helps make flying more fat-friendly. More fat people are flying than ever, and we need the airlines to implement consistent policies instead of just dancing around the issue, so we'll know in advance how we fit in (pun intended). Let's hope this forces the issue. Unless of course the airlines don't want my business. 

Meanwhile I'll vote with my fat, rent a car and drive if it's 8 hours or less. Last year and the previous year I made several business trips to Philadelphia and Nashville, and it was worth the extra time to drive in spacious comfort. I could also stop for lunch in a real restaurant en route or just get out and stretch my legs. My problem is I'm both fat and tall with long legs, and my huge ass pushes me forward in the seat, but legroom less of a problem in a nice roomy car.


----------



## fat hiker (Feb 18, 2010)

superodalisque said:


> the real question is comfort for everyone including thin people. the new seats are just way too small for anyway and have almost no legroom. i flew on an old jet from the 70s owned by an african airline. i think it was an old
> DC10. yeah scary i know for anyone who remembers the history of the aircraft. but what really impressed me about it was how huge and roomy it was. any super would have been perfectly comfy in the coach seats. so it isn't how fat we are but how tiny the seats are overall. i think it would just be more effective to push for bigger seats for everyone instead of just acting indignant because we are fat and taking the position that its just too bad if we make other people uncomfortable just because we don't want to pay for two seats policy or not.
> 
> why can't we just pay for the seats for now and work really hard on changing what the airlines are doing? we know people of other sizes would want that too. i really don't think this is a fat problem but its a humane problem. i know people in my family who fly with me who are entirely miserable with the seats as well. one ended up with a blood clot after a seven hour flight all crunched up. thats a problem thats been increasing that the airlines haven't dealt with either. so until then even if people are well within thier rights or the policies maybe they still need to be more thoughtful of the other people they are traveling with. the airlines are pretty stupid anyway. why should we defer to them when it comes to respecting other people's space. if we're honest with ourselves we know that in close situations like that we can often make people uncomfortable, or at least not as comfortable as they might have been ordinarily. we need to face it and so does he. why did he have 2 seats in the first place if he really thought it would be ok to squeeze other people up?



Airlines are businesses - and businesses respond, first and foremost, to profit opportunities. Unfortunately very few people in the USA buy airline tickets based on seat size and comfort - like gadgets at wal-mart, they buy on price, and mostly price, with maybe not having to make connections coming second. If you want your campaign to work, then flying ONLY on airlines that offer bigger, better spaced seats is the only tactic that will make any difference.

American Airlines, a few years ago, listened to the plea for more seat space in economy, and adjusted the spacing on their seating to give folks three (IIRC) more inches of legroom, then advertised the hell out of it. Net result? American lost money, as they couldn't match other carriers deep discount fares while flying fewer folks in the same airplanes (if you increase seat spacing you decrease the number of seats, and thus tickets, on the plane). American quietly shrank their seat spacing back down about two years later, as they couldn't afford the lost revenue, as people, while claiming they wanted better spacing, just didn't actually want to pay the few extra dollars for it.

The old DC10 you flew in Africa probably had European seat widths, not American, and that's why it seemed more comfy - European countries used to regulate things like that. American seat width has remained much the same for decades - the 737 is over 30 years old, and has always had the same size fuselage, with the same six seats across in it.


----------



## fat hiker (Feb 18, 2010)

Never2fat4me said:


> Good question, Cranky! In part I would say that just because a flight is international, it shouldn't cost more (I am not aware of the U.S. charging for Canadian - or any other country's - aircraft for entering U.S. airspace), so other than charges being different at the departing airport (and I suppose labour costs, though Canadians should have an advantage here since our taxes - not our employers - bear most of our healthcare costs), costs should be the same. As for comparing fares, unfortunately your example doesn't work (there are no direct flights from Buffalo to Vancouver), but if you compared, say, Toronto to Montreal to Buffalo to Boston (roughly similar distances, though B to B would be further), the former would cost around $480 and the latter around $200 (according to Expedia for trip for March 11-18).
> 
> Not that there are never any bargains, but generally, domestic air travel in Canada is generally more expensive than it is in the U.S.
> 
> Chris



The US and Canada both charge for foreign airplanes entering their airspace - directly (the charge for the air traffic control system that shows up in your tickets, plus the airline security charges) and indirectly (overflight and landing charges under the airline's First Freedom, Second Freedom and Third Freedom rights). All countries, so far as I know, charge for the first three freedoms.

As a passenger, you can see this when you look at the taxes and charges section of your ticket - transborder flights always have higher taxes and charges than domestic flights, whether the domestic is inside Canada or inside the USA.

Frankly, I can't wait for the coming revival of transborder rail travel.


----------



## fat hiker (Feb 18, 2010)

RJI said:


> I'm thinking the Canadian Government does not subsidize their Airlines with taxpayer money to the same extent that the U.S. does. So the flights will be a truer cost compared to the bought down price we get here.



Absolutely. Canadian airports pay full freight for their operations, their borrowings (no "tax-free municipal bonds" up here in the GWN), and even rent to the federal government for the land they sit on. And that doesn't get into airline operations, where military requirements, local issues, and airline industry pressures produce all sorts of hidden subsidies for the US airline industry.

If Amtrak were as heavily subsidised as the US air travel system, the USA would already have a high speed train system. I have heard that Amtrak even has to pay highway tax on the fuel for its locomotives!


----------



## RJI (Feb 18, 2010)

fat hiker said:


> Absolutely. Canadian airports pay full freight for their operations, their borrowings (no "tax-free municipal bonds" up here in the GWN), and even rent to the federal government for the land they sit on. And that doesn't get into airline operations, where military requirements, local issues, and airline industry pressures produce all sorts of hidden subsidies for the US airline industry.
> 
> *If Amtrak were as heavily subsidised as the US air travel system, the USA would already have a high speed train system. I have heard that Amtrak even has to pay highway tax on the fuel for its locomotives!*



I work for Amtrak and if I had a dollar for every customer that compared the price of an Airline flight to the cost of a Train ticket I would be retired in Maui! 
After I explain to them how much of their tax money is given to the Airlines and how little goes to the Railroad they usually lighten up. 
Just so you know Obama is pumping some new money into the Railroad and several high speed rail projects have been green lit and funded so things will be improving hopefully. Vice President Biden is a huge Amtrak buff so thats a nice thing for me at least. 

Virgin is breathing down the U.S. rails neck and dying to get its high speed trains on our soil so more money needs to be put into U.S. high speed rail development or else it will be taken over by a foreign company.


----------



## superodalisque (Feb 19, 2010)

RJI said:


> I work for Amtrak and if I had a dollar for every customer that compared the price of an Airline flight to the cost of a Train ticket I would be retired in Maui!
> After I explain to them how much of their tax money is given to the Airlines and how little goes to the Railroad they usually lighten up.
> Just so you know Obama is pumping some new money into the Railroad and several high speed rail projects have been green lit and funded so things will be improving hopefully. Vice President Biden is a huge Amtrak buff so thats a nice thing for me at least.
> 
> Virgin is breathing down the U.S. rails neck and dying to get its high speed trains on our soil so more money needs to be put into U.S. high speed rail development or else it will be taken over by a foreign company.



i'll be really glad when this happens especially in regards to what fathiker said about the marketplace realities of the airlines. i think we need to have more ways to be responsible for getting our own fat bodies from point A to point B. so, if one way does not work we have many more broad economic alternatives so that we don't end up making ourselves look like the enemies of the thin and having fat drama follow us whenever we travel. for the most part i find that people are really outraged about having to pay for the additional seat simply because they just don't have the cash. so, definitely fat people need a cheaper alternative and thats probaly not going to be the airlines because the cost of fuel is too high. lets face it, if my ass is twice as wide as the norm and i weigh twice as much as the norm its not totally outrageous for the airlines to ask me to buy 2 seats. i'm not mad at the airlines for catering to the norm. i'm responsible for how much i eat to get the size that i am and i don't expect the world to manage itself based on the choices i make that put me in the population of the rare. and no matter how many tantrums we throw at the airport it probably won't change much overall unless the airlines can find an alternative fuel. bring on rapid rail-we are waaay overdue.


----------



## 99Haints (Feb 19, 2010)

TraciJo67 said:


> Unfortunately, I think that in Kevin's case, they are probably going to focus on the highlighted wording -- being able to lower the armrests is not, in essense, the definitive guage. Determining whether or not an individual spills over into adjacent seating is incredibly subjective. No wonder there are constant horror stories.



Exactly. Also, having one shared armrest-for two arms-makes the line between the seats pretty sketchy. Being in the middle, you could have two, one, or zero armrests for yourself. It's an especially troublesome spot for a "customer of size" because you can't lean away anywhere. Anyone whose sides press against them could be accused of encroaching into someone elses' space, and there's no way to argue otherwise.


----------



## Will S (Feb 20, 2010)

Well I would not mind having a bbw encroach on my space if I could lay my head down on her and make myself comfortable. There several ladies here for which the pleasure of being on long flight with them, would be all mine.


----------



## Duniwin (Feb 24, 2010)

Just had to post this:






Seriously though, this example of the enforcement of the their policy is inhumane and unfair.


----------



## mithrandirjn (Feb 27, 2010)

RJI said:


> I work for Amtrak and if I had a dollar for every customer that compared the price of an Airline flight to the cost of a Train ticket I would be retired in Maui!
> After I explain to them how much of their tax money is given to the Airlines and how little goes to the Railroad they usually lighten up.
> Just so you know Obama is pumping some new money into the Railroad and several high speed rail projects have been green lit and funded so things will be improving hopefully. Vice President Biden is a huge Amtrak buff so thats a nice thing for me at least.
> 
> Virgin is breathing down the U.S. rails neck and dying to get its high speed trains on our soil so more money needs to be put into U.S. high speed rail development or else it will be taken over by a foreign company.



That's one of the more underrated aspects so far since the start of the Obama Administration; I really can't wait for Amtrak and the American rail system, in general, to improve and rejuvenate itself. I rode Acela for a trip to Boston from Newark over the summer and very much enjoyed it, including the scenic views along the way in Connecticut.

As for Kevin Smith (my Jersey homeboy), what the whole issue highlights more than anything else is that, regardless of whether one thinks a fat person should have to buy a second ticket or not, airlines absolutely MUST get their crap together when it comes to a straight forward, hard and fast rule on the subject. Enough dancing around it, enough halfway-ing things, just comes to a conclusion and stick to it.


----------



## ThatFatGirl (Feb 9, 2011)

Kevin has lost 65 lbs. He was on The Joy Behar show last night talking about his experience on SW Airlines and his weight loss . Joy cracks me up, "Are you on amphetamines?" 

*******

(From popeater.com)
"I sympathize far more with heavier people than I ever will with thin -- I'll never be thin," he told the host. "Let's be honest, I've lost 65 pounds, but nobody's going 'I wanna sleep with you!' They're just like, 'Keep going, you look better.'"

He's still furious about being thrown off the flight last year, and "felt at that moment 'I'll lose the weight, but I'm not putting on thinner clothes.' I'm still the same person I was when I was 65 pounds heavier." He added that "sometimes a fat dude has a lot to offer, if [you] can just get past the blubber."


----------



## PunkyGurly74 (Feb 9, 2011)

I freakin' love Kevin Smith - Dogma is one of my top 10 movies..he is brilliant and funny.

I am flying to Florida on Monday and I specifically did not choose SouthWest because of his experience. I was afraid the same thing would happen to me!!


----------



## AnnMarie (Feb 9, 2011)

It's really too bad his body image is so low, but given the world he lives in, it's certainly understandable.


----------



## PeanutButterfly (Feb 9, 2011)

I wish we could recruit Kevin James to Dims. He seems like such a nice guy and he's funny as hell. But mostly I love his attitude about losing weight. It mirrors a lot of how I feel. No matter what my size is I'll always be a big girl at heart. Like others said, I wish he knew just how cute he is. :smitten:


----------



## Isa (Feb 9, 2011)

AnnMarie said:


> It's really too bad his body image is so low, but given the world he lives in, it's certainly understandable.



His body image has always been low. The cruel statements he makes about himself are often beyond cringe worthy. It is worth noting that he's been on many diets in the past and always falls off of them due to is love of eating. I really need to get caught up on his podcasts to hear how he's going about it this time and his thoughts in general about the weight loss. 

I really hope it wasn't just a knee jerk response to the SW debacle.


----------



## HeavyDuty24 (Feb 9, 2011)

Kevin Smith is AWESOME! screw Southwest Airlines.JERKS!


----------



## mossystate (Feb 9, 2011)

Less shame about the weight, whatever it is...and more shame for wearing those jerseys.


----------



## Christov (Feb 9, 2011)

Unpopular opinion time; Kevin Smith hasn't made a movie or written a comic book that was any good in years, and he's only vaguely interesting when he's getting pissed off about something.

Also his opinions on indie film are based entirely in fiction, and marketing his latest film as one is entirely bogus because it's pretty much assumed his friends at The Weinstein Company are booking the theatres and sorting his shit out.


----------



## AnnMarie (Feb 9, 2011)

I don't disagree. I like some of his stuff, but unless he's ranting now, it's all about promotion and it's boring and grinding. Following him on Twitter was painful waiting for "real" time between endless promotions (which I get it, it's his Twitter, yadda, yadda). But I had to stop following because I couldn't take it.


----------



## Fish (Feb 9, 2011)

Christov said:


> Unpopular opinion time; Kevin Smith hasn't made a movie or written a comic book that was any good in years, and he's only vaguely interesting when he's getting pissed off about something.
> 
> Also his opinions on indie film are based entirely in fiction, and marketing his latest film as one is entirely bogus because it's pretty much assumed his friends at The Weinstein Company are booking the theatres and sorting his shit out.



I'm not going to comment on your opinions of the quality of his more recent work, since they ARE opinions, and I half agree with them and half disagree, but that's neither here nor there.

Concerning "Red State", the last I'd read, the Weinstein's chose not to provide funding. But even if they booked every theater, it wouldn't make the film any less "indie". And while plenty of people choose to define indie films with very loose and usually very personal definitions, what essentially makes a film "indie" is financing. "Red State" is an independent film as it's funding does not come from a major studio. Distribution is not a defining factor.

How is it that you choose to define "indie" in this case that you're saying that it's "bogus" to call "Red State" indie?


----------



## Christov (Feb 9, 2011)

Fish said:


> But even if they booked every theater, it wouldn't make the film any less "indie".


Yes it bloody does. 

Half the battle with independent film is getting it into theatres. When you've got people with leverage like the Weinsteins doing that stuff for you, it essentially removes half the trials independent films have to go through. Yeah, the film wasn't funded by a huge studio, but neither was The Passion of the Christ, and that's hardly considered an independent film either. This would be entirely a non-issue if he didn't make such a big deal about how big studios fuck people over and how he's sticking it to the man by making an indie film.

Smith's comments about the state of independent film are entirely hollow, whining about how it's 'so hard' and that people 'shouldn't bother getting into the industry'. The fucker held a faux distributor action to attract attention and is having the Weinsteins do everything besides wiping his ass when he defecates himself during a Twitter rant. 

He's a smug condescending fuck.


----------



## Fish (Feb 9, 2011)

Christov said:


> Yes it bloody does.



No it bloody doesn't! There, I'm faux-cussing. Does it make my point more right then yours that way?



Christov said:


> Half the battle with independent film is getting it into theatres.



While distribution is a major hurdle for many indie filmmakers, that isn't what defines a film as independent. And the Weinstein Company *IS* an independent one anyway, so they could "wipe his ass" 24/7 and it wouldn't make "Red State" any less independent. 



Christov said:


> When you've got people with leverage like the Weinsteins doing that stuff for you, it essentially removes half the trials independent films have to go through. Yeah, the film wasn't funded by a huge studio, but neither was The Passion of the Christ, and that's hardly considered an independent film either.



While YOU may not consider it an independent film, I hate to break it to you, but it absolutely WAS an independent film. It was self financed and self distributed. That's the absolute definition of independent movie whether you like it or not. Hell, as a matter of pure technicality, every STAR WARS film after the first were independent films that, while distributed by 20th Century Fox, were financed by Lucas' own company and bank loans.

Your personal opinion of a film or it's artistic merit isn't a factor. While many "art" films are "Independent", that's not a criteria for classification.



Christov said:


> This would be entirely a non-issue if he didn't make such a big deal about how big studios fuck people over and how he's sticking it to the man by making an indie film.
> 
> Smith's comments about the state of independent film are entirely hollow, whining about how it's 'so hard' and that people 'shouldn't bother getting into the industry'. The fucker held a faux distributor action to attract attention and is having the Weinsteins do everything besides wiping his ass when he defecates himself during a Twitter rant.
> 
> He's a smug condescending fuck.



Which means nothing in this issue. You can hate him 6 ways from Sunday, and none of that changes the definition of "independent film".


----------



## Christov (Feb 10, 2011)

Fish said:


> No it bloody doesn't! There, I'm faux-cussing. Does it make my point more right then yours that way?


Heading into deli-territory there, Fish.



Fish said:


> While distribution is a major hurdle for many indie filmmakers, that isn't what defines a film as independent. And the Weinstein Company *IS* an independent one anyway, so they could "wipe his ass" 24/7 and it wouldn't make "Red State" any less independent.
> 
> While YOU may not consider it an independent film, I hate to break it to you, but it absolutely WAS an independent film. It was self financed and self distributed. That's the absolute definition of independent movie whether you like it or not. Hell, as a matter of pure technicality, every STAR WARS film after the first were independent films that, while distributed by 20th Century Fox, were financed by Lucas' own company and bank loans.
> 
> Your personal opinion of a film or it's artistic merit isn't a factor. While many "art" films are "Independent", that's not a criteria for classification.


Not going to dispute that it had independent funding or meets the standard requirements to be an indie flick. 

I've already made it clear that my own problem is that he's acting under a sense of self importance and is using the term 'independent film' as a way of spreading a holier-than-thou attitude he has towards big studios. Let's face it, he's an established director who had his fans finance the film and is letting the Weinsteins handle all of the business, he has absolutely no right to complain about how hard indie films are to make when he's had the funds handed to him on a silver plate by one of the many cronies at his SModcastle.

These are the reasons why I don't consider it an indie film. He's circumvented a far too much of the process and cheapened the credibility of it with his whining bullshit.

But remember, it's just an opinion. You don't really have to agree, but while you may state it meets the classic requirements to be an indie film, the circumstances regarding the details leaves that open to dispute and interpretation.


----------



## Saoirse (Feb 10, 2011)

Who the fuck cares. Don't watch his stuff.


----------



## Christov (Feb 10, 2011)

Saoirse said:


> Who the fuck cares. Don't watch his stuff.


I don't.


----------



## Jes (Feb 10, 2011)

Christov said:


> .
> 
> He's a smug condescending fuck.



Do you have to make every thread about you, Christov?


ahahahaha. Oh, my. I just laffo'd at my interwebs.



And, of course, I mean no disrespect; wouldn't you have taken the shot if presented with the same opportunity?


----------



## Fish (Feb 10, 2011)

Christov said:


> Heading into deli-territory there, Fish.



Yes, yes you are.



Christov said:


> Not going to dispute that it had independent funding or meets the standard requirements to be an indie flick.



Coo, then we agree that it's an independent film. Awesome.



Christov said:


> I've already made it clear that my own problem is that he's acting under a sense of self importance and is using the term 'independent film' as a way of spreading a holier-than-thou attitude he has towards big studios. Let's face it, he's an established director who had his fans finance the film and is letting the Weinsteins handle all of the business, he has absolutely no right to complain about how hard indie films are to make when he's had the funds handed to him on a silver plate by one of the many cronies at his SModcastle.
> 
> These are the reasons why I don't consider it an indie film. He's circumvented a far too much of the process and cheapened the credibility of it with his whining bullshit.



I still don't quite understand how any of that makes the film less independent in your view, except that you seem to require some kind of "suffering" clause attached to meet your personal standards. 



Christov said:


> But remember, it's just an opinion. You don't really have to agree, but while you may state it meets the classic requirements to be an indie film, the circumstances regarding the details leaves that open to dispute and interpretation.



Only if you choose to define words for yourself rather then using those "classic" requirements. But since your name in here is "Christov" and not "Oxford English Dictionary", you don't actually choose what words mean for the world at large.

That said, you're entitled to set those definitions for _yourself_ as long as you please.


----------



## Christov (Feb 10, 2011)

Listen, I had a pretty big post done for this but I closed the tab by accident and whoops it's gone, so I'll give the short version.

Much like right and wrong are subjective, I believe the label of 'independent' in regards to film is also.

Having a ready-made fanbase and powerful film executives engineer the distribution (something Kevin should be doing himself, considering he fucking bought the film from himself) personally puts sufficient doubt on Red State as an independent film. I'm not disputing that it's up for debate, but I'm sticking by my appraisal. 

I'd like to reiterate that my actual problem isn't with Red State being indie or not, but more because of Kevin Smith talking bullshit about the state of the industry. The guy lives in his own little bubble, for example:



> Nah, criticism gives me the heebie-jeebies. It's like taking marital advice from the clergy: if you've sworn your life to celibacy, how am I supposed to take anything you say about cohabitation seriously? You'd be clueless. So when other storytellers have something critical to say about my craft? Hey, I'm all ears; I might just learn something. But shy of that? I find it hard to take seriously any pundit who tells me how to tell my story - or run my 17-year-and-counting career. But only someone critical will tell you how important taking criticism is. At 40 years old, after a lifetime of experience, I'm here to tell you criticism is not only not important, it's counter-productive... "constructive criticism?" A phrase coined by cretins looking for license to insult you to your face without getting punched.





Jes said:


> Do you have to make every thread about you, Christov?


Smug, yes. Fuck, yes. Condescending, probably not.

I genuinely make an effort not to talk down to people like that.


----------



## Fish (Feb 10, 2011)

Christov said:


> "Nah, criticism gives me the heebie-jeebies. It's like taking marital advice from the clergy: if you've sworn your life to celibacy, how am I supposed to take anything you say about cohabitation seriously? You'd be clueless. *So when other storytellers have something critical to say about my craft? Hey, I'm all ears; I might just learn something.* But shy of that? I find it hard to take seriously any pundit who tells me how to tell my story - or run my 17-year-and-counting career. But only someone critical will tell you how important taking criticism is. *At 40 years old, after a lifetime of experience, I'm here to tell you criticism is not only not important, it's counter-productive... "constructive criticism?" A phrase coined by cretins looking for license to insult you to your face without getting punched.*" Kevin Smith



Were this a post here in dims, I'd feel fairly compelled to point out to him the fact that he contradicts himself fairly obviously in one paragraph. (See the bolded parts) However, I feel this is likely more an example of him misspeaking then anything else.

Now, I agree with him in that there's a very distinct difference between the constructive criticisms of ones peers and the whining blather of internet critics more interested in tearing others down then building themselves up, but when it seems like he contradicts himself at the end, he's making a distinction between "critics" and "other storytellers". And having dealt with the exact same issue, I completely understand what he's talking about. He just worded it little too loosely. 

Or to look at it from another perspective, since it's his attitude that seems to have you so upset: You've expressed a very critical opinion of him personally that you've not veiled at all in here. You called him a "smug condescending fuck" based, it seems, on nothing more then what you've read and heard about him. And since you said you DON'T watch his stuff, I also would guess that you don't know him personally._ Although for someone who clearly dislikes the man while professing to not watch his movies, you seem very up to date on his blog, Podcast and media interviews and appearances._ 

Now imagine that every time you went online, to your own website often, you read that kind of shit about yourself. Imagine going to ComiCon and hosting a panel only to have people in the audience come up to the mic and call you a hack or give you shit. How calm and cool would *you* be? And keep in mind that after the first time I posted a calm disagreement with you in this very thread, you responded with: _"Yes it bloody does."_ 

Now, I don't know him personally. For all I know, he could be the biggest asshat on Earth. But what I do know is that he made "Clerks" by maxing out his credit cards and filming at night in the same store he had to work in during the day. And then he had to shop it around to film festivals to find distribution. So, I think he's fairly entitled _"to complain about how hard indie films are to make."_



Christov said:


> Much like right and wrong are subjective, I believe the label of 'independent' in regards to film is also.



Subjective based on what, you not liking his attitude? Gauging from your responses, for a movie to be "independent" it must not only be fully self financed but also fully self distributed. AND the filmmaker must not have sufficient money or professional pull up front to make either of those steps easy, since both have to be difficult for a film to qualify as "indie" for you. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's all based on _specifically_ what you've already posted.


----------



## Blackjack (Feb 10, 2011)

Why the fuck are you two arguing about the definition of "indie film"? That's the most absurd train of thought to come from this whole thing.


----------



## Fish (Feb 10, 2011)

Blackjack said:


> Why the fuck are you two arguing about the definition of "indie film"? That's the most absurd train of thought to come from this whole thing.



I was responding to THIS post and the thread divergence has since grown wildly out of proportion.


----------



## Christov (Feb 10, 2011)

Fish said:


> Now, I agree with him in that there's a very distinct difference between the constructive criticisms of ones peers and the whining blather of internet critics more interested in tearing others down then building themselves up, but when it seems like he contradicts himself at the end, he's making a distinction between "critics" and "other storytellers". And having dealt with the exact same issue, I completely understand what he's talking about. He just worded it little too loosely.


Well boo-hoo for not being able to convey himself correctly. He doesn't need you to clean up after him. If he put more thought into what he was saying maybe Kevin wouldn't come across as a douche. 



Fish said:


> Or to look at it from another perspective, since it's his attitude that seems to have you so upset: You've expressed a very critical opinion of him personally that you've not veiled at all in here. You called him a "smug condescending fuck" based, it seems, on nothing more then what you've read and heard about him. And since you said you DON'T watch his stuff, I also would guess that you don't know him personally._ Although for someone who clearly dislikes the man while professing to not watch his movies, you seem very up to date on his blog, Podcast and media interviews and appearances._


You're acting like I hated Kevin the minute I heard about him.

I listened to some of the SModcasts, realised they ranged from interesting to dull.

I watched some of his early movies, I enjoyed a couple, but others I couldn't get in to.

I followed him on Twitter to discover all he tweets about is blocking people and eating his wife's ass.

I read Batman: The Widening Gyre, decided it sucked, and then found a reasonable amount of people agreed with me. He was high as fuck when he wrote it, and it shows.

Then I moved onto his recent comments about the film industry, comics, etc... and came to the conclusion he was up his own ass and over the hill creatively.



Fish said:


> Now imagine that every time you went online, to your own website often, you read that kind of shit about yourself. Imagine going to ComiCon and hosting a panel only to have people in the audience come up to the mic and call you a hack or give you shit. How calm and cool would *you* be? And keep in mind that after the first time I posted a calm disagreement with you in this very thread, you responded with: _"Yes it bloody does."_


If I were Kevin, I personally would expect myself to act like a fucking professional, not rant at some kid at a convention so my toadies can laugh at them. Failing that, I'd bottle it up and cry into my piles of money/wife's ass later.



Fish said:


> Now, I don't know him personally.


Considering how strongly you're defending him I actually half expected you to be on his bankroll in one way or another.



Fish said:


> For all I know, he could be the biggest asshat on Earth.


A title I intend to take for myself.



Fish said:


> But what I do know is that he made "Clerks" by maxing out his credit cards and filming at night in the same store he had to work in during the day. And then he had to shop it around to film festivals to find distribution. So, I think he's fairly entitled _"to complain about how hard indie films are to make."_


Good for him, he made Clerks and found success, but that was 1994 and Kevin is obviously a different guy now, and dare I say has succumbed to the ego fame brings. 



Fish said:


> Subjective based on what, you not liking his attitude?


Subjective based on exterior circumstances not included in the often rigid definition of '_is_' or '_isn't_'.

If I were to say 'I'm a Horse' and go live in a field, eat hay, gallop through the grass, shit indiscriminately, and get ridden by rural joyriders, I wouldn't actually _be_ a Horse.


----------



## Fish (Feb 10, 2011)

Christov said:


> A title I intend to take for myself.



Then you've got a lot of work to do.


----------



## Blackjack (Feb 10, 2011)

Fish said:


> I was responding to THIS post and the thread divergence has since grown wildly out of proportion.



So basically because Christov expressed an opinion you disagree with, you're getting your panties in a twist?

Shit, dude, if you're looking for a retarded fight, there's plenty in Hyde Park. This? It's ridiculous.


----------



## Saoirse (Feb 10, 2011)

I was hoping for a donkey show


----------



## BigBeautifulMe (Feb 10, 2011)

If we're going to argue about something totally OT I say we move on to arguing about Kevin's usertitle, "Fupa troopa." 

Although, there is this other option - say, getting back on-topic. But y'know...


----------



## Fish (Feb 10, 2011)

Blackjack said:


> So basically because Christov expressed an opinion you disagree with, you're getting your panties in a twist?
> 
> Shit, dude, if you're looking for a retarded fight, there's plenty in Hyde Park. This? It's ridiculous.



Actually, if you feel like going back and reading the thread, Christov expressed his opinion, I disagreed with that opinion and asked for clarification and then Christov's panties began twisting with is declaration of: "Yes it bloody does." 

From there, the metaphorical panties got well and truly twisted all around. 

Then he said his piece and I said mine and while I can't speak for Christov, my "panties" are properly adjusted and fit just fine. I made my point and have no interest in continuing to argue over Christov's personal definition of the word "independent".

And for the record, what is and isn't worthy of debate *is* subjective and while you may find it retarded, I didn't. If this bothers you so much, then as you pointed out, there are plenty of other topics in Hyde Park for you to go to.


----------



## swordchick (Feb 10, 2011)

Fish, ignore the BS. You did not start anything. If you did start it, so what. The most vocal members in Dims have done that over some truly dumb topics. You don't have to make excuses for your posts.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe (Feb 10, 2011)

Fish said:


> Actually, if you feel like going back and reading the thread, Christov expressed his opinion, I disagreed with that opinion and asked for clarification and then Christov's panties began twisting with is declaration of: "Yes it bloody does."
> 
> From there, the metaphorical panties got well and truly twisted all around.
> 
> ...



You know I love you Fish (and you too, Swordie), but for whatever it's worth, your comment that there are "other topics in Hyde Park" makes it seem like you think this is a Hyde Park thread. It's not - it's on the main board. That's the only reason the OT bickering bothers me in the least... this isn't HP, but the thread is reading like it. Again, just MHO.


----------



## Christov (Feb 10, 2011)

oh god what's going on i got drunk and woke up here


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar (Feb 10, 2011)

As far as my two cents:

Kevin Smith stopped being an "indie" film director once he went mainstream; I don't think even HE seems himself like that anymore. Being picked up for a big-name comedy (Mallrats), even though less than successful, put him more on the map as a new-generation of filmmaker rather than someone who skirted the edge of the industry making it all on their own. He's more fringe than indie, and his involvement in bit parts here and there (Degrassi, Die Hard 4) may label him as just another sellout. So what?

Here's what I know: He's always been self-deprecating, he's always joked about getting fat, then making movies, and getting fat, being married to a chubby chaser, and so on. He's one of the only (if not THE only) filmmaker who truly has a connection to his fan base. I don't know anyone else who has a 10+ year old web board and a popular podcast. His Q&A DVDs aside, he's someone who can communicate with his decidedly nerdy/geeky fan base, and to me that works.

He's not the best filmmaker in the world. His jokes get old, the characters are predictable in many ways (and to be honest, two potheads in their 30s are more pathetic than funny), and in his own words, you'll never see him direct a blockbuster comic book film because he's too lazy. He makes me laugh, and he brings in the win for chubby nerds everywhere.

As for Christov's perspective, Smith already denounced that in earlier Q&A discussions about how he "lowered the bar" for indie films and turned it into a kind of Special Olympics, so yes, he gets that even his shit is old. He makes movies as he wants to, throws whatever message he wants, and in the end we can take it or leave it.


----------



## Fish (Feb 10, 2011)

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> He's always been self-deprecating, he's always joked about getting fat, then making movies, and getting fat, being married to a chubby chaser, and so on.



Very true. Although at the level in which he knocks himself down regarding his weight and the resulting yo-yo dieting shows that as a defense mechanism, it's NOT working that well.


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar (Feb 10, 2011)

Fish said:


> Very true. Although at the level in which he knocks himself down regarding his weight and the resulting yo-yo dieting shows that as a defense mechanism, it's NOT working that well.



Well, it's that and a number of other things. Just going off his Q&As, you get a number of disturbing things: 1) His wife hates men, and supposedly that's why she married a guy with the "smallest dick imaginable," 2) He's a romantic guy, but in his own words is a lousy lay since his wife does all the work on top, 3) About 1/3 of the people I know who have watched his Q&As feel that he's clearly in the closet (in regard to a woman asking if he knew he was straight at 22 and he said "lady I'm almost 40 and I'm still not sure, and I have a wife and kid, how irresponsible is that?"), 4) He's tried the liquid diets and so forth, but falling back on the pot makes it easier for him to pack on the pounds with snacking. Some of the last year's podcasts were almost unlistenable because he was so friggin stoned that nothing made any sense. It'll be ironic if Jay Mewes stages some sort of intervention on Kevin in a few years to get him off the weed and onto some sort of weight management program.

One would think by now he'd have gone the Peter Jackson route with gastric bypass, if he was truly concerned with his health, but such is not the case. I don't know if he's simply afraid of it or just prefers being fat. It's his life, though, so all I can do is see it through a window and decide how much is true and how much is just made up for the audience.


----------



## Fish (Feb 10, 2011)

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> It's his life, though, so all I can do is see it through a window and decide how much is true and how much is just made up for the audience.



That's the ultimate truth in all of this. None of us actually know him and so we don't know how much of what we DO see is essentially performance art and misdirection.


----------



## FA Punk (Feb 12, 2011)

You guys are talking about ''Kevin Smith'' right? The guy is total bullshiter you know, I wouldn't believe a single thing that came out of his mouth even if you paid me lol. And yes I am a big fan but still I wouldn't take anything he has said without a grain of salt, and Admiral_Snackbar you know half the people who go to his Q&A's are stoned(and among other things) as fuck right? So how can you not say he isn't just fooling around with his own fanbase?


----------

