# PETA Ad Banned From Super Bowl



## largenlovely (Jan 27, 2009)

Someone here sent me this article and asked that i post it. He was bothered that it claimed that people who eat meat are "fat, sick and boring in bed" I don't want to put words in his mouth, but i'm thinking he feels that it was meant that because a person is FAT that they're boring in bed. 

I think that there was definitely a slur against fat people in there, but i personally think that it was more aimed towards all meat eaters in general, fat OR thin...but i could be wrong  

Here's the article 

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni0661297/

Pamela Anderson and Pink's favourite animal rights group PETA's latest TV ad has been blocked from debuting during the Super Bowl telecast on Sunday - because it's too naughty. The saucy commercial, aimed at encouraging sportsmen and women to go veggie, features lingerie-clad models caressing broccoli spears and kissing a pumpkin. 

But bosses at TV network NBC, the channel airing the big game, have ruled the ad is too too racy for Super Bowl audiences, and they've benched the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals' (PETA) commercial. 

NBC Universal vice president of advertising standards, Victoria Morgan, states, "The PETA spot submitted to Advertising Standards depicts a level of sexuality exceeding our standards." 

But PETA bosses contend the 30-second spot, which carries the message, "Studies Show: Vegetarians Have Better Sex", should never have been axed - and they fear there's another reason behind the ban. 

Group Senior Vice President Lisa Lange says, "PETA designed the commercial to add balance to the traditional onslaught of Super Bowl commercials for meaty, greasy, and factory-farmed fast food, including those run by KFC. The fast-food giant is a major NBC sponsor, and a target of heavy PETA campaigning as a result of its failure to reform cruel animal welfare practices and slaughter methods. 

"PETA is asking if this relationship could have something to do with NBC's decision to nix the group's ad. 

"PETA's veggie ads are locked out while ads for fried chicken and burgers are allowed - even though *these foods make Americans fat, sick, and boring in bed." *

PETA spokesman Michael McGraw adds, "The bottom line is, the ad is a fun, tongue-in cheek way of calling attention to the healthy, sexy, and humane reasons for switching to a vegetarian diet."


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jan 27, 2009)

I've been a PETA supporter for many years, and I think they've accomplished some good things. But nobody's perfect, and PETA has consistently broadcast the message, "Don't eat meat! It'll make you fat!" I don't believe this is due to any particular anti-fat bias on PETA's part so much as a shrewd realization that millions of Americans are panicked about fat, plus the determination to use that panic to make a negative association with meat. It's psychological manipulation, otherwise known as advertising.


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## AshleyEileen (Jan 27, 2009)

Here's a link to the commercial: click.


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## AnnMarie (Jan 27, 2009)

I don't think the ad is really that scandalous. 


And if they think it's meat making people fat, they're out of their minds. Hello.... body by carbs, checking in.


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## katorade (Jan 27, 2009)

I'm pretty sure that PETA is the devil. A hypocritical, murderous devil at that.


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## furious styles (Jan 27, 2009)

i would like to hunt, skin, and wear this "PETA."


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## 1300 Class (Jan 27, 2009)

I like protecting animals as much as the next fellow, but PETA seem to be the extremists that give conservation a bad name by all the silly, outlandish, radicalist behavior that does more harm than good and keeps them out of the mainstream and from more people getting their message.


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## katorade (Jan 27, 2009)

Australian Lord said:


> I like protecting animals as much as the next fellow, but PETA seem to be the extremists that give conservation a bad name by all the silly, outlandish, radicalist behavior that does more harm than good and keeps them out of the mainstream and from more people getting their message.



The problem is that PETA are not animal welfare activists. They are animal RIGHTS activists. This means that not only do they believe that the consumption and captivity of animals is wrong, but exploiting them in any way is wrong as well. 

They do not believe animals should be trained as helpers for the disabled, such as seeing eye dogs. 

They do not believe animals should be used for medical testing, including testing done for research going towards cancer or aids. 

They do not believe in zoos, even though zoos that are members of the AZA are critical to the survival of some species of animals and support conservational efforts to protect natural habitats. 

They believe that pet ownership is slavery and animals handed over to their headquarters have been instantly euthanized rather than placed in homes. 

The president of PETA, Ingrid Newkirk, is a heartless megalomaniac. She has produced such lovely quotes as "Even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we'd be against it." and has known to compare things like chicken farming to the holocaust, and animal exploitation to human slavery.


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## katorade (Jan 27, 2009)

Australian Lord said:


> I like protecting animals as much as the next fellow, but PETA seem to be the extremists that give conservation a bad name by all the silly, outlandish, radicalist behavior that does more harm than good and keeps them out of the mainstream and from more people getting their message.



This is why many other animal rights groups refuse to be associated with them and often end up in direct conflict with them. They have also been known to shut down solo operations that were furthering their cause so that money could go directly to their main headquarters rather than benefiting organizations that were out to meet the same ends.


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## elle camino (Jan 27, 2009)

Australian Lord said:


> I like protecting animals as much as the next fellow, but PETA seem to be the extremists that give conservation a bad name by all the silly, outlandish, radicalist behavior that does more harm than good and *keeps them out of the mainstream* and from more people getting their message.



this would be totally right on, if PETA weren't the (or one of the) most well-known organizations in their field. 
they're pretty much entirely in the mainstream.
case in point: we're discussing them right now.


also: the mods might as well send this over to hyde park right now and get it over with.


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## 1300 Class (Jan 27, 2009)

> case in point: we're discussing them right now.


All because we discuss something doesn't make it mainstream in the slightest. What I should have really said was that their views and policies are not viewed as being mainstream, or even within the "normal" window of conservation and protection. 



> They do not believe animals should be trained as helpers for the disabled, such as seeing eye dogs.


To me, that staggers belief. I mean to tout something so silly as this as policy, its amazing. 



> They do not believe animals should be used for medical testing, including testing done for research going towards cancer or aids.


I can understand that to a point. I mean do they consider say, mice or rodents under their umbrella for this? (thats taking things to the extreme if they do). 



> They do not believe in zoos, even though zoos that are members of the AZA are critical to the survival of some species of animals and support conservational efforts to protect natural habitats.


So to free animals they let them go extinct? What warped logic. 



> They believe that pet ownership is slavery and animals handed over to their headquarters have been instantly euthanized rather than placed in homes.
> 
> The president of PETA, Ingrid Newkirk, is a heartless megalomaniac. She has produced such lovely quotes as "Even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we'd be against it." and has known to compare things like chicken farming to the holocaust, and animal exploitation to human slavery.


Sounds like a total nut. Though thats probably insulting to the other regular nuts out and about.


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## katorade (Jan 28, 2009)

Australian Lord said:


> All because we discuss something doesn't make it mainstream in the slightest. What I should have really said was that their views and policies are not viewed as being mainstream, or even within the "normal" window of conservation and protection.
> 
> 
> To me, that staggers belief. I mean to tout something so silly as this as policy, its amazing. Yes, to normal, rational people, this view is silly. To them, it's exploitation and slavery.
> ...


 Yeah, she's certifiable.


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## goodthings (Jan 28, 2009)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> I've been a PETA supporter for many years, and I think they've accomplished some good things. But nobody's perfect, and PETA has consistently broadcast the message, "Don't eat meat! It'll make you fat!" I don't believe this is due to any particular anti-fat bias on PETA's part so much as a shrewd realization that millions of Americans are panicked about fat, plus the determination to use that panic to make a negative association with meat. It's psychological manipulation, otherwise known as advertising.



and of course that does make it ok


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## 1300 Class (Jan 28, 2009)

I think the message they are achieving is "Don't listen to PETA we talk rubbish." Mission largely successful I would think.


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## kojack (Jan 28, 2009)

Definatly a group of psychos. Anyone else catch there recent "Sea kittens" campain?


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## exile in thighville (Jan 28, 2009)

I love meat


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## Wild Zero (Jan 28, 2009)

If they had any stones they'd pull an A.L.F. and bomb the Super Bowl rather than participating in the whole animal-killing advertising sham.


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## 1300 Class (Jan 28, 2009)

kojack said:


> Definatly a group of psychos. Anyone else catch there recent "Sea kittens" campain?


Just proves how totally disconnected from reality they have become.


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## LalaCity (Jan 28, 2009)

kojack said:


> Definatly a group of psychos. Anyone else catch there recent "Sea kittens" campain?



Yes, I read about that the other day -- their effort to rename fish.

I admit I laughed derisively.

That said, for all their failed stunts PETA does have a fairly impressive record of gains on the animal rights front. So some of those outlandish tactics do, in fact, work.


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## No-No-Badkitty (Jan 28, 2009)

PETA is nothing more than a domestic terrorism group that has done 0 for animals. The only thing they do is hump on media frenzied stories and stand around patting themselves on the back taking credit when none was due. Fact, PETA hasn't spent a single dollar on ANY program to HELP animals...unless it means helping them die. PETA is a lobyist group.
People who support PETA, often have a very good heart, but do not understand the true mission of this group. And like a certian German power (that shall remain nameless) that might have saved his country in a time of dispair, and brought prosperity and pride, his means of accomplishing that feat are unforgivable and just plain EVIL. 
And before anyone gets angry about the comparison, I want to point something out, PETA's goal, their true goal (which many will roll their eyes and say impossible but the same was said about a certian other person too) is to remove humans from the equation and return the planet to natural animals. They fund lobyist groups that push for anything related to human removal, abortion, human euthanasia (for the mentally retarded), human population control, resource control (food), no medical research, blocking life saving drugs, etc. PETA promotes the suffering of humans for the benefit of animals. 
Farmers, animal exhibitors, those of us involved in rescue, or any animal industry have been fighting these people for years, trying to educate the public about their true agenda.
If people want to truly HELP animals in need, then go to your local animal shelter and donate food, supplies, and toys. That's helping.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Jan 28, 2009)

I really don't like PETA, but hey, at least people know what that is. 

so, that leads to .. a NAAFA is what?


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## Tooz (Jan 28, 2009)

Cannot stand PETA.
They objectify women to make their point about ~delicious veggies~.
Their idiotic leader requires insulin (hypocriiiiiite).
A lot of the facts they use are wholly untrue.
They whine like five-year-olds.
IMO PETA gives vegetarians not associated with them a bad, bad name.
I would like to organize a demonstration in which people lob raw and cooked meats at PETA members.
jfhasjbfkealuoqei4f


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## LalaCity (Jan 28, 2009)

No-No-Badkitty said:


> PETA is nothing more than a domestic terrorism group that has done 0 for animals. The only thing they do is hump on media frenzied stories and stand around patting themselves on the back taking credit when none was due. Fact, PETA hasn't spent a single dollar on ANY program to HELP animals...unless it means helping them die. PETA is a lobyist group.
> People who support PETA, often have a very good heart, but do not understand the true mission of this group. And like a certian German power (that shall remain nameless) that might have saved his country in a time of dispair, and brought prosperity and pride, his means of accomplishing that feat are unforgivable and just plain EVIL.
> And before anyone gets angry about the comparison, I want to point something out, PETA's goal, their true goal (which many will roll their eyes and say impossible but the same was said about a certian other person too) is to remove humans from the equation and return the planet to natural animals. They fund lobyist groups that push for anything related to human removal, abortion, human euthanasia (for the mentally retarded), human population control, resource control (food), no medical research, blocking life saving drugs, etc. PETA promotes the suffering of humans for the benefit of animals.
> Farmers, animal exhibitors, those of us involved in rescue, or any animal industry have been fighting these people for years, trying to educate the public about their true agenda.
> If people want to truly HELP animals in need, then go to your local animal shelter and donate food, supplies, and toys. That's helping.



Your allegation that PETA is trying to exterminate the human race seems a little...extreme. Have any info (links, etc.) to back it up?


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## LoveBHMS (Jan 28, 2009)

However one feels about PETA, the issue here is should the ad have been banned, to which I say no.

I watch a LOT of football, and beer ads (anyone remember the Swedish Bikini Team?) are much racier and suggestive than this one.

As far as the messages they use, I would say it's fair to assume they conduct the same sorts of sales and marketing activities as for-profit corporations. IOW, they conduct surveys to learn about attitudes towards vegetarianism and also to determine what messages best sell. It's sort of conventional wisdom that "sex sells" so they created the "I'd rather go naked than wear fur" campaign and conduct surveys online each year about that year's "Sexiest Vegetarian". If they know the diet industry makes millions each year promising weight loss, it's clear Americans respond positively to a message that says "If you do this, you'll lose weight".


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## Blackjack (Jan 28, 2009)

Tooz said:


> They objectify women to make their point about ~delicious veggies~.



This.

Why is it alright to exploit women in the quest to stop exploitation of animals?


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## BothGunsBlazing (Jan 28, 2009)

Blackjack said:


> This.
> 
> Why is it alright to exploit women in the quest to stop exploitation of animals?



So.. what you're saying is we should eat women in an attempt to stop the consumption of animals?


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## Blackjack (Jan 28, 2009)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> So.. what you're saying is we should eat women in an attempt to stop the consumption of animals?



This is actually why I don't eat pussy- it's so I can keep eating cats.


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## mergirl (Jan 28, 2009)

shit,,i quoted the wrong person!! SEE WHAT YOU MADE ME DO NOW PETA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## mergirl (Jan 28, 2009)

Blackjack said:


> This.
> 
> Why is it alright to exploit women in the quest to stop exploitation of animals?


women decide whether they are exploted or not.


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## elle camino (Jan 28, 2009)

I like meat, _and_ i like PETA. 
would PETA like me back? probably not. 
do i 100% agree with every single aspect of their dogma? nope. 
do i think it's true that we do exploit animals in a ton of different and totally unnecessary ways? yep.
are several different approaches to solving a problem more effective than just one homogeneous effort? i tend to think so. 
do i enjoy the arbitrary question/answer format a little too much? probably. 

at any rate - accusing PETA of being extremists and then comparing them to nazis in the same paragraph is wow. just wow.


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## mergirl (Jan 28, 2009)

elle camino said:


> accusing PETA of being extremists and then comparing them to nazis in the same paragraph is wow. just wow.



hmm..i was going to say i thought that comparison was a bit out there..
BUT if there is any proof of them creating death camps for meat eaters..i totally think we should clamp down though!!


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## BothGunsBlazing (Jan 28, 2009)

elle camino said:


> I like meat, _and_ i like PETA.
> would PETA like me back? probably not.
> do i 100% agree with every single aspect of their dogma? nope.
> do i think it's true that we do exploit animals in a ton of different and totally unnecessary ways? yep.
> ...



hm, you think they're unnecessary, huh? you don't agree?

time to take care of this post NAZI/PETA STYLE.







paint alllll over


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## elle camino (Jan 28, 2009)

NOOOO NOT MY FANCY STATUS SYMBOL OF A POST ON THE INTERNET!
MY MOM GAVE THAT TO ME FOR MY BIRTHDAY!!a


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## gangstadawg (Jan 28, 2009)

of all groups that need to be supported PETA is not one of them. they are total whack jobs. didnt they recently wanted fish to be renamed sea kittens?


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## Weeze (Jan 28, 2009)

Blackjack said:


> This is actually why I don't eat pussy- it's so I can keep eating cats.



Well there goes 20% of my fantasies....

Oh yes, and i'd just like to point out that the commercial did nothing except make me laugh. I saw no harm in it.

That is all.


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## No-No-Badkitty (Jan 28, 2009)

LalaCity said:


> Your allegation that PETA is trying to exterminate the human race seems a little...extreme. Have any info (links, etc.) to back it up?



"Surely there will be some nonhuman animals whose lives, by any standards, are more valuable than the lives of some humans." Peter Singer, Animal Liberation: A New Ethic for Our Treatment of Animals, 2nd ed. (New York: New York Review of Books, 1990), p. 19.


"I'm not only uninterested in having children. I am opposed to having children. Having a purebred human baby is like having a purebred dog; it is nothing but vanity, human vanity." Ingrid Newkirk, PeTA's founder and president, New Yorker magazine, April 23, 2003 


"If you haven't given voluntary human extinction much thought before, the idea of a world with no people in it may seem strange. But, if you give it a chance, I think you might agree that the extinction of Homo Sapiens would mean survival for millions, if not billions, of Earth-dwelling species ... Phasing out the human race will solve every problem on earth, social and environmental." "Les U. Knight" (pseudonym), "Voluntary Human Extinction," Wild Earth, Vol. 1, No. 2, (Summer 1991), p. 72.


http://www.naiaonline.org/articles/archives/animalrightsquote.htm


And I have read and heard (at the insane conventions that they give) far WORSE and more horrible suggestions on human value.


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## No-No-Badkitty (Jan 28, 2009)

Blackjack said:


> This.
> 
> Why is it alright to exploit women in the quest to stop exploitation of animals?



Because women are human, and therefor expendable.


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## Wagimawr (Jan 28, 2009)

Blackjack said:


> This is actually why I don't eat pussy- it's so I can keep eating cats.


CURSE YOU REP GODS


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## No-No-Badkitty (Jan 28, 2009)

"I am not a morose person, but I would rather not be here. I don't have any reverence for life, only for the entities themselves. I would rather see a blank space where I am. This will sound like fruitcake stuff again but at least I wouldn't be harming anything." Ingrid Newkirk, founder, president and former national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), as quoted in Chip Brown, "She's a Portrait of Zealotry in Plastic Shoes," Washington Post, November 13, 1983, p. B10. 

"Humans have grown like a cancer. We're the biggest blight on the face of the earth." Ingrid Newkirk, PeTA's founder, president and former national director, Readers Digest, June 1990

"To those people who say, `My father is alive because of animal experimentation,' I say `Yeah, well, good for you. This dog died so your father could live.' Sorry, but I am just not behind that kind of trade off." Bill Maher, PETA celebrity spokesman

"To those people who say, `My father is alive because of animal experimentation,' I say `Yeah, well, good for you. This dog died so your father could live.' Sorry, but I am just not behind that kind of trade off." Bill Maher, PETA celebrity spokesman

"Even if animal tests produced a cure [for AIDS], 'we'd be against it.'" --Ingrid Newkirk, national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), as quoted in Fred Barnes, "Politics," Vogue, September 1989, p. 542.

Human population growth is ultimately one of the most significant that we as a movement have to grapple with. It's a simple equation that more consumers translates into more animals raised for food.For the sake of the animals, there's nothing more powerful than changing your diet." Wayne Pacelle, Vegan.com , October 1998.


"If we really believe that animals have the same right to be free from pain and suffering at our hands, then, of course we're going to be, as a movement, blowing things up and smashing windows ... I think it's a great way to bring about animal liberation ... I think it would be great if all of the fast-food outlets, slaughterhouses, these laboratories, and the banks that fund them exploded tomorrow. I think it's perfectly appropriate for people to take bricks and toss them through the windows. ... Hallelujah to the people who are willing to do it." Bruce Friedrich, PeTA's director of Vegan Outreach, Animal Rights Conference, 2001


Just a few more...if you like, I am sure I can find plenty more.


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## LoveBHMS (Jan 28, 2009)

> Just a few more...if you like, I am sure I can find plenty more.



Thanks but no.

Not everyone associated with animal rights agrees with everything that everyone else says. Some people agree with PETA on some matters and disagree on others. 



> "I'm not only uninterested in having children. I am opposed to having children. Having a purebred human baby is like having a purebred dog; it is nothing but vanity, human vanity." Ingrid Newkirk, PeTA's founder and president, New Yorker magazine, April 23, 2003



This quote is merely a reference to being child-free by choice, as many women (and men) are. It has nothing to do with exterminating the human race.



> "Surely there will be some nonhuman animals whose lives, by any standards, are more valuable than the lives of some humans." Peter Singer, Animal Liberation: A New Ethic for Our Treatment of Animals, 2nd ed. (New York: New York Review of Books, 1990), p. 19.



You could debate the ethics of this forever, but if you take an extreme example of a really non-valuable human like John Wayne Gacey or Ted Bundy and compare it with a seeing eye dog or some random dog who saves a family of five by barking to alert them to a fire or a dog trained in search and rescue who saves lives, then yes, I think the latter animals are more valuable than murderers and child molesters.



> Human population growth is ultimately one of the most significant that we as a movement have to grapple with. It's a simple equation that more consumers translates into more animals raised for food….For the sake of the animals, there's nothing more powerful than changing your diet." Wayne Pacelle, Vegan.com , October 1998.



All he is saying is that more humans has translated into more animal suffering and factory farming to feed them all. He is concerned with an increase in animal suffering, he's not saying to just exterminate humans.


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## No-No-Badkitty (Jan 28, 2009)

LoveBHMS said:


> Thanks but no.
> 
> Not everyone associated with animal rights agrees with everything that everyone else says. Some people agree with PETA on some matters and disagree on others. .




I didn't say that everyone associated believes this way. I said that many have their hearts in the right place but do not understand completely what they are supporting. It is the LEADERS that support and push this agenda. And they are the ones getting the multi-million dollar paychecks and running the show. They are the one's giving the orders and pressing for support of certian legislation. So what THEY think is what matters.


The point of the quotes is to support the claim (the one I made) that these individuals have a hate for the human race and a desire to see it controlled if not out right eliminated. No, not every quote says "all humans must die" but you don't need to say "I hate ____" for people to realize you're racist either. Your actions and words as a whole can convey that quite clearly, if people will bother to listen. 
It is what these people are doing, pushing for and suporting that makes their intentions known. If they choose that way of thinking for themselves that is their choice, the fact that they want to force the world to fall under their rules should terrify us all. Sadly, it doesn't and probably won't until people are unable to access life saving medicines or the food supply is in such short supply that people begin starving to death.

Quick little thought here. PETA (and other's like them) are against the exlpoitation of animals and the earth for human benefit. They don't want us wearing fur/leather (the one and only truly biodegradable eco-friendly clothing)
and they don't want us eating meat. So what are we supposed to wear/eat. Before you give me a list of plastics and wheat, where do those things come from? You have to rape the planet of resources to make plastic, pollute the earth and harm the environment to process them. For "vegetable matter" you have to mow down forest, destroying animal habitat, thus killing millions of animals.
So what's the difference (in the end) between eating a chicken or starving animals to death to you can grow grain on their land.
I promise you...if it were you or the chicken, the chicken wouldn't think twice about eating you.


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## Von_Pudge (Jan 28, 2009)




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## KevMoney (Jan 28, 2009)

I could go on for hours about how the "Sea Kitties" campaign launched by PETA is awful. And how they have 99.9999% of their facts completely wrong. But anyone with a brain can see the campaign for itself and know its way out in left field. You folks (with brains, I assume) can just tell that PETA is so out of touch with reality, it hurts. 

I could argue against PETA's claims that eating fish will kill you, that fish like to be pet, in the mannner that one would pet a cat or dog, that fish in aquaculture production facilities are kept in a manner that is against the well being of that particular species, which is bullshit, but I don't, because hopefully most people here have eyes and a brain that works. It so ridiculous, that a professor of mine, who teaches a class I am enrolled in entitled "Critical issues in aquacultures" has decided that PETA is one of the #1 issues to be discussed in class. Last week, we spent the entire class period just launching into why PETA is bad for the aquaculture industry and coming up with counter arguments for the campaign. 

It is such absolute garbage that the agenda and attitude of an organization such as PETA can justify a senior level class taken for credit and whatnot. PETA makes my head hurt and it should make your head hurt too. 4 years ago, I applied for a job at Mystic Aquarium and the HR person asked me 3 separate times how I felt about animals in captivity and at the end of the interview, explained that people belonging to PETA cannot contain themselves when asked how they feel about animals. They try to take down great institutions like Mystic Aquarium (http://www.mysticaquarium.org/ or http://www.mysticaquarium.org/ANIMALSEXHIBITS/AnimalRescueProgram/tabid/176/Default.aspx) or New England Aquarium (www.neaq.org) from the inside by claiming they are hurting the environment. They also organize demonstrations by paying for admission to hand out brochures, etc. I have personally worked for both these wonderful organizations and have seen groups of children come into them and exclaimed things like how they've never seen a live fish before outside a pet store. The look of amazement in their eyes is a worthwhile justification for runnning aquariums. Seeing this really blew my mind, as I thought I was one of the only people to get interested in marine biology by an aquarium. And for PETA to argue that organizations such as these are terrible when they allow for people to experience fish (and other animals) in a way they could never do so by themselves, in an invalid arguement. Sure, there are institutions more interested in making a quick buck or two than displaying animals for the better good of mankind, but these are far and few between. 

My co-advisor and I both share the same attitude in that the public is misinformed when it comes to ideas put forth by PETA and company. PETA has an agenda and will distort facts to promote said agenda. He and I discussed at length when I was accepted into the program I am in now that the media (and PETA included) do more harm than good, and that's about all I have to say for now. Anyone who would like to hear more about this, in a more constructive manner, I invite them to PM me, and ask me directly. There's a reason why I don't post anything more than 3 sentences - and that's because organizations like PETA make my head spin and I have so much to say that it definitely doesn't come out in the way I intend it to. 

With that, I step down from my soap box.

Arghghhthghghghg.


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## Famouslastwords (Jan 28, 2009)

In the great words of wisdom by Maddox "for every animal you don't eat, I'm gonna eat three."


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## mergirl (Jan 28, 2009)

I cant actually believe we are having the Peta discussion again.. its like de ja vous!


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## HottiMegan (Jan 28, 2009)

I have been a vegetarian all of my life and even a vegan for part of it and look how fat i am.. I always thought it was ridiculous how vegetarianism always correlates to thinness.

My first exposure to PETA was when i was about 12 and we were shopping for suits for my dad at Saks. They were blocking ALL directions of exit from teh store due to them selling furs or something. I was annoyed by them yelling at me and my family for shopping there. And even MORE annoyed when i'd look down and see leather clad feet. Ever since then, I have not taken what they say as anything worth listening to. 
I am a vegetarian because I do not believe in taking the life of an animal to feed me but I could care less what anyone else eats.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

PETA is a terrorist organization. I love animals. I think animal life is as precious as human life. But I eat meat - and I have always wanted a mink coat. If these lunatics ever spray painted something I was wearing I would handle it either in court or the Texas way. I'd carry a gun.


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## elle camino (Jan 28, 2009)

really i just wonder what it is about PETA specifically that gets people into such tizzies everywhere. there are millions of other organizations that promote lifestyles or agendas which don't really jibe with everyone else's - they protest and advertise too, and many of them employ the 'shock you into noticing our cause' tactic. 
in fact on my way home from class today i stopped into Macy's to return a pair of socks, and there were about 65 union protesters out front with a giant banner and signs which said stuff like "SHOP AT MACY'S AND YOU'RE TAKING FOOD OUT OF MY KID'S MOUTHS" etc etc etc. 
neither i nor anyone else on the street were shitting bricks over it like people do over PETA using similar language in their protests. 

is it some urban legend BS about them throwing paint on coats or whatever? because please i'd like to hear from one actual person who's really had paint thrown on them by PETA. in fact on their website they specifically DIScourage their members and supporters from doing that, encouraging them instead to pass out literature about factory fur farms. 

if it's about their advertisements exploiting women - do you all get that pissed off at, say, anheuser-busch or victoria's secret? 

if it's about them telling you not to eat something you like to eat - do you all (assuming you eat pork) get that pissed off at the torah or the qu'ran? 

is it that they don't operate exclusively no-kill shelters? do you get that pissed off at PAWS or any of the other crapton of animal organizations which aren't exclusively no-kill? 

point is: to me, PETA aren't much different than any other given organization which i'm not completely on board with their tactics or their creed. i see no reason to take it so dang personally. 
agree to disagree, opt out of supporting, and move on with life. PETA's not coming to your house and replacing all of your steaks with asparagus, or your leather shoes with hemp sandals. chill out.


----------



## Tooz (Jan 28, 2009)

elle camino said:


> really i just wonder what it is about PETA specifically that gets people into such tizzies everywhere. there are millions of other organizations that promote lifestyles or agendas which don't really jibe with everyone else's - they protest and advertise too, and many of them employ the 'shock you into noticing our cause' tactic.
> in fact on my way home from class today i stopped into Macy's to return a pair of socks, and there were about 65 union protesters out front with a giant banner and signs which said stuff like "SHOP AT MACY'S AND YOU'RE TAKING FOOD OUT OF MY KID'S MOUTHS" etc etc etc.
> neither i nor anyone else on the street were shitting bricks over it like people do over PETA using similar language in their protests.
> 
> ...



PETA pisses me off because they get more attention for the crap they pull and the "facts" they base their abrasive campaigns on are faulty. Every PETA activist I have known have actually tried to ruin animal products of mine. I just don't like them.

Also, I do get mad at Victoria's Secret et. al.


----------



## AnnMarie (Jan 28, 2009)

*takes out pencil and crosses a name off her list*

(kidding, there's no list!)


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## AshleyEileen (Jan 28, 2009)

I work at Omaha Steaks and part of my training included a section about what to do if Peta or any other animal rights activists were to come to the store.


----------



## AshleyEileen (Jan 28, 2009)

Famouslastwords said:


> In the great words of wisdom by Maddox "for every animal you don't eat, I'm gonna eat three."


----------



## Ruby Ripples (Jan 28, 2009)

elle camino said:


> really i just wonder what it is about PETA specifically that gets people into such tizzies everywhere. there are millions of other organizations that promote lifestyles or agendas which don't really jibe with everyone else's - they protest and advertise too, and many of them employ the 'shock you into noticing our cause' tactic.
> in fact on my way home from class today i stopped into Macy's to return a pair of socks, and there were about 65 union protesters out front with a giant banner and signs which said stuff like "SHOP AT MACY'S AND YOU'RE TAKING FOOD OUT OF MY KID'S MOUTHS" etc etc etc.
> neither i nor anyone else on the street were shitting bricks over it like people do over PETA using similar language in their protests.
> 
> ...



I don't know of any other organisation or striking union staff that go, without giving advance warning, to a school, where they harrass all the children as they come out at the end of the day, blocking all the exits so the children have NO choice but to be bombarded with shouted propaganda, and handed nasty literature, while TV cameras are there filming it all. THAT is what those fuckwits PETA did at my son's school. The shool had no idea, as PETA had only informed the two TV stations locally. There were 11 year old children being aggressively approached, PETA members were grabbing kids for photo "ops", the children had no way of avoiding the bombardment. I still have somewhere (grrr cant find them just now), cards that were shoved into my son's hands, as he was told that his acne was due to drinking cow's milk. The cards featured grotesque "happy families" and one had on a hideous picture of a boy covered in facial boils, with white phlegm pouring from his nose and mouth and an agonised expression on his face. 

That experience was very disturbing for the kids and in some cases distressing. Whatever else it was, it was utterly unacceptable. If all the kids reacted as my son did, then all they did was earn themselves several hundred people who will always view PETA with utter disgust. 

So, thats why *I* have an issue with PETA and their bullying, aggressive, tactics. Which other organisations are you thinking of, that do that stuff?


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## 1300 Class (Jan 28, 2009)

> This is actually why I don't eat pussy- it's so I can keep eating cats.


Post of the Year.


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## katorade (Jan 28, 2009)

elle camino said:


> really i just wonder what it is about PETA specifically that gets people into such tizzies everywhere. there are millions of other organizations that promote lifestyles or agendas which don't really jibe with everyone else's - they protest and advertise too, and many of them employ the 'shock you into noticing our cause' tactic.
> in fact on my way home from class today i stopped into Macy's to return a pair of socks, and there were about 65 union protesters out front with a giant banner and signs which said stuff like "SHOP AT MACY'S AND YOU'RE TAKING FOOD OUT OF MY KID'S MOUTHS" etc etc etc.
> neither i nor anyone else on the street were shitting bricks over it like people do over PETA using similar language in their protests.
> 
> ...




I take it personally because I PERSONALLY volunteered for organizations that were completely undermined by PETA and have personally dealt with their blood-sucking uninformed cronies face to face. I take it personally because I feel it's important that the money they suck out of people that unknowingly buy into their crap could actually be going to HELP actual animals in need, and provide them freedom from abuse, or neglect, or malnourishment, but it doesn't, it just puts up another stupid fucking SUPERBOWL AD about how sexy it is to be a vegan. Jesus Christ!


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## katorade (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> PETA is a terrorist organization. I love animals. I think animal life is as precious as human life. But I eat meat - and I have always wanted a mink coat. If these lunatics ever spray painted something I was wearing I would handle it either in court or the Texas way. I'd carry a gun.




Sorry, what?


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## Tooz (Jan 28, 2009)

katorade said:


> Sorry, what?



My thoughts exactly. I eat meat, but I don't eat veal, lobster or foie gras due to the nature of it. Mink is another cruel thing, animal rights or no.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

katorade said:


> Sorry, what?




I said exactly what I meant.  I wear leather too.


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## Tooz (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I said exactly what I meant.  I wear leather too.



Leather is on a different playing field than mink.


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## katorade (Jan 28, 2009)

LoveBHMS said:


> You could debate the ethics of this forever, but if you take an extreme example of a really non-valuable human like John Wayne Gacey or Ted Bundy and compare it with a seeing eye dog or some random dog who saves a family of five by barking to alert them to a fire or a dog trained in search and rescue who saves lives, then yes, I think the latter animals are more valuable than murderers and child molesters.



You know, what's funny is that my line of thinking is sort of a parallel. I do believe that the human race is ridiculously overpopulated, and that our own breeding should be quelled, not for the good of the other species on this Earth (although that wouldn't hurt), but for our own good. There are far too many people suffering in poverty, neglect and disease for us to keep popping babies out at the rate we are. 

I'm honestly an advocate of having to have a license to have children. Not, by any means, to try and keep just the upper crust of society, but to protect future children from growing up in irresponsible, abusive homes. This can happen at any level of society. 
Of course coming up with the actual structure of obtaining a license would be an epic battle of ethics, so it's nearly impossible. It also wouldn't guarantee that unlicensed people WOULDN'T get pregnant, but maybe the resulting hefty fines could go towards child welfare or education, and fear of those fines might actually make people use protection or keep it in their pants now and again.


The problem with devaluing human life in order to value animal life is that a) it's hypocritical, and b) who gets to decide who is of value and who isn't? If you and a chicken were hanging by a toenail from the golden gate bridge, would you really want the person deciding your fate to be Ingrid Newkirk? 

It is fully possible to value animal life AND realize that there is and always will be a need to take their lives on this planet. If we weren't here, animals would still die at the hands of other animals (and yes, there are whackos out there feeding their dogs and cats vegetarian diets for ethical reasons). I love animals to death. I'd risk my own life to save my dog, and have spent countless time and money on trying to do some good for creatures that can't do it for themselves. I don't advocate wearing fur (unless you're a freaking Inuit or something) or using non-necessities tested on animals. I also eat meat and support medical testing. It's called balance, which is far different from being a hypocrite.


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## pani (Jan 28, 2009)

Note to self: Make sure and eat some meat this week. I actually prefer veggie, but when I hear the hypocrisy of the Chicago health commissioner nagging against meat, (how dare a government that screwed up nag about anything) or the harpies at PETA attack my body type I make sure to add some real protein to my diet.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

Tooz said:


> Leather is on a different playing field than mink.



Oh that's bull. I've heard that before. If you wear leather and eat meat and you want to call me on wanting to wear mink - you better look at yourself. I know I've heard it all before that the leather is a by product of the meat industry and that's bull too. You wanna wear leather yet take me to task for *wanting*(not having) a mink coat.

_(*Moderator edited out personal attack*)_

I only ever knew one man who lived his ideals about being a vegan and living his life without any animal products in his posession. He was vegan, he wore only man made clothing (no silk either, you know they kill the silk worn to get the silk) and didn't even wear leather shoes or belts. 

Before you point your finger at me - check your own behavior.


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## katorade (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I said exactly what I meant.  I wear leather too.



So you're saying you'd also be totally cool with wearing a jacket made out of, say, Tooz's skin?


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## Blackjack (Jan 28, 2009)

katorade said:


> So you're saying you'd also be totally cool with wearing a jacket made out of, say, Tooz's skin?









I'd fuck me.


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## katorade (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Oh that's bull. I've heard that before. If you wear leather and eat meat and you want to call me on wanting to wear mink - you better look at yourself. I know I've heard it all before that the leather is a by product of the meat industry and that's bull too. You wanna wear leather yet take me to task for *wanting*(not having) a mink coat.
> 
> You're a hypocrite.
> 
> ...



I think what she's saying is that it's absolutely hilarious that you said that you value animals' lives the same as human lives, and then IMMEDIATELY said you wanted a mink coat, which while not being that different in the world from leather, is a farming process all its own where NO other part of the animal is used even when it COULD be (i.e. rabbit is fully edible and rather tasty, I might add), and the only resulting value in that animal's life is not that it went to save a life or feed someone, but that you get to look luxurious.


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## Tooz (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Oh that's bull. I've heard that before. If you wear leather and eat meat and you want to call me on wanting to wear mink - you better look at yourself. I know I've heard it all before that the leather is a by product of the meat industry and that's bull too. You wanna wear leather yet take me to task for *wanting*(not having) a mink coat.
> 
> You're a hypocrite.
> 
> ...



lol hubris and unnecessary anger. I'm not a vegan, I love meat. But, come ON. At least people USE the rest of the goddamn cow, babydoll. I never claimed to be shit, I just said mink is disgusting. End of discussion.



katorade said:


> I think what she's saying is that it's absolutely hilarious that you said that you value animals' lives the same as human lives, and then IMMEDIATELY said you wanted a mink coat, which while not being that different in the world from leather, is a farming process all its own where NO other part of the animal is used even when it COULD be (i.e. rabbit is fully edible and rather tasty, I might add), and the only resulting value in that animal's life is not that it went to save a life or feed someone, but that you get to look luxurious.



You make my point quite well.


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## GWARrior (Jan 28, 2009)

its fashionable to hate PETA. much like a fur coat. mink even!



elle camino said:


> really i just wonder what it is about PETA specifically that gets people into such tizzies everywhere. there are millions of other organizations that promote lifestyles or agendas which don't really jibe with everyone else's - they protest and advertise too, and many of them employ the 'shock you into noticing our cause' tactic.
> in fact on my way home from class today i stopped into Macy's to return a pair of socks, and there were about 65 union protesters out front with a giant banner and signs which said stuff like "SHOP AT MACY'S AND YOU'RE TAKING FOOD OUT OF MY KID'S MOUTHS" etc etc etc.
> neither i nor anyone else on the street were shitting bricks over it like people do over PETA using similar language in their protests.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

_(*Moderator edited out personal attack*)_

I love my dogs but I eat meat, and so do they. And somehow that makes me wrong. Bull.

Who cares whether all the animal is used or nor. That's an excuse to do what you want and criticize others. Have you seen what they do to cattle?? Have you seen what they do to chickens?? And somehow that's OK because they use all the animal. If this reasoning wasn't so ludicrous it would be funny.

_(*Moderator edited out personal attack*)_





katorade said:


> I think what she's saying is that it's absolutely hilarious that you said that you value animals' lives the same as human lives, and then IMMEDIATELY said you wanted a mink coat, which while not being that different in the world from leather, is a farming process all its own where NO other part of the animal is used even when it COULD be (i.e. rabbit is fully edible and rather tasty, I might add), and the only resulting value in that animal's life is not that it went to save a life or feed someone, but that you get to look luxurious.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

Tooz said:


> lol hubris and unnecessary anger. I'm not a vegan, I love meat. But, come ON. At least people USE the rest of the goddamn cow, babydoll. I never claimed to be shit, I just said mink is disgusting. End of discussion.



Don't call me babydoll. And you don't get to end this discussion. Using all the animal is just an excuse to judge others. As I said before. Spend some time researching what they do to cows to raise them and kill them so you can eat a hanburger while sneering at a woman in fur. No you're not better than me because you don't wear fur. _(*Moderator edited out personal attack*)_

This is too rich.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

katorade said:


> So you're saying you'd also be totally cool with wearing a jacket made out of, say, Tooz's skin?



Yes I would as long as the rest of her was put to good use.


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## DeniseW (Jan 28, 2009)

God, how I love Bill Maher......








No-No-Badkitty said:


> "I am not a morose person, but I would rather not be here. I don't have any reverence for life, only for the entities themselves. I would rather see a blank space where I am. This will sound like fruitcake stuff again but at least I wouldn't be harming anything." Ingrid Newkirk, founder, president and former national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), as quoted in Chip Brown, "She's a Portrait of Zealotry in Plastic Shoes," Washington Post, November 13, 1983, p. B10.
> 
> "Humans have grown like a cancer. We're the biggest blight on the face of the earth." Ingrid Newkirk, PeTA's founder, president and former national director, Readers Digest, June 1990
> 
> ...


----------



## Tooz (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Don't call me babydoll. And you don't get to end this discussion. Using all the animal is just an excuse to judge others. As I said before. Spend some time researching what they do to cows to raise them and kill them so you can eat a hanburger while sneering at a woman in fur. No you're not better than me because you don't wear fur._(*Moderator edited out personal attack*)_
> 
> This is too rich.



lol I don't eat ribs and I can't even afford leather. I have like two leather things that were gifts, long ago.


Thanks for the smile, babe


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Yes I would as long as the rest of her was put to good use.


Best. Reply. Ever.


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## GWARrior (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Don't call me babydoll. And you don't get to end this discussion. Using all the animal is just an excuse to judge others. As I said before. Spend some time researching what they do to cows to raise them and kill them so you can eat a hanburger while sneering at a woman in fur. No you're not better than me because you don't wear fur._(*Moderator edited out personal attack*)_
> 
> This is too rich.



what if one doesnt wear leather boots or eat ribs and chicken? can they chide you then?


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## DeniseW (Jan 28, 2009)

for real? While I think that mostly all farm animals are treated very badly, I think there is a special hell for those that make fur coats. The fur industry is vile and whenever I see a person wearing a fur coat, I always let them know how disgusted I am by it. Sometimes it's a look, sometimes more. Fur is murder at it's absolute worst!!! If you really believed that animal life is as precious as human life, no way in hell would you ever want a fur coat!!







Sandie_Zitkus said:


> PETA is a terrorist organization. I love animals. I think animal life is as precious as human life. But I eat meat - and I have always wanted a mink coat. If these lunatics ever spray painted something I was wearing I would handle it either in court or the Texas way. I'd carry a gun.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

Tooz said:


> lol I don't eat ribs and I can't even afford leather. I have like two leather things that were gifts, long ago.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the smile, babe





_(*Moderator edited out personal attack*)_


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## ashmamma84 (Jan 28, 2009)

If a woman wants to spend her hard earned money on a mink, sable or any other coat that's her damn business. I have a fur my mother passed on to me and she has several and they look absolutely regal. Someone will always have something to say...but I don't give a damn. Let 'em talk, let 'em talk, let 'em talk! cause at the end of the day I have what I want and really don't have to answer to anyone. And what's more is a find that people who have such a serious problem with it aren't totally vegan themselves anyway...


----------



## elle camino (Jan 28, 2009)

Ruby Ripples said:


> I don't know of any other organisation or striking union staff that go, without giving advance warning, to a school, where they harrass all the children as they come out at the end of the day, blocking all the exits so the children have NO choice but to be bombarded with shouted propaganda, and handed nasty literature, while TV cameras are there filming it all.
> 
> THAT is what those fuckwits PETA did at my son's school. The shool had no idea, as PETA had only informed the two TV stations locally. Which other organisations are you thinking of, that do that stuff?



when i was in middle school we had pro-life jerks marching outside our school with GIANT placards with photos of partially dismembered fetuses, because in our school clinic there were pamphlets which listed abortion as an option for unwanted pregnancies. 
we also had ACT UP people handing out condoms at my high school, the ACLU, etc etc etc. 
it happens. 
sorry, it just doesn't strike me as all that terrible. i'm sure you've taught your kid to be strong in his convictions, and to ignore people with whom s/he doesn't want to engage. take the pamphlet, toss it in the recycling, get on the bus and go home. that's what i did. kids aren't mindless. 
i mean if you dislike them and that's why, that's fine. your perogative. 
but they're really not the only organization that goes to schools for some cheap local publicity. it's a pretty tried and true tactic. 

and katorade: for real, my last post stands. so you disagree with them! alright! neat! don't blow a damn gasket, don't give them more power over your mental state than they deserve, if they're so clearly full of shit then don't assume the rest of the population is just supporting them to be willfully daft or whatever. you look into what PETA's about and see a bunch of BS, someone else looks into it and sees something they like and want to support. as we went over in another thread a while ago: to each their own. and meanwhile, you're expending what seems to be a not-insignifigant amount of emotional energy being all pissed off at them, while they chug merrily along unaffected. 
so who wins.


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## Tooz (Jan 28, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> what if one doesnt wear leather boots or eat ribs and chicken? can they chide you then?



Must be! Have at.


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## DeniseW (Jan 28, 2009)

Jesus, must leave this post before my head explodes!!!


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> for real? While I think that mostly all farm animals are treated very badly, I think there is a special hell for those that make fur coats. The fur industry is vile and whenever I see a person wearing a fur coat, I always let them know how disgusted I am by it. Sometimes it's a look, sometimes more. Fur is murder at it's absolute worst!!!



So is all meat that we buy and eat. It's no different. In fact cows are tortured by the way they are fed in order to fatten them up for market quickly. They are fed on corn alone which makes them very sick and causes them to have stomach ulcers that are very painful, and they have to be killed within 6 weeks because otherwise they just die. And then they are hurded into stockyards waiting to be taken to slaughter. Have you ever seen a stockyard? The cows are crowded into small holding pens where they can't move. If they are lucky they are in a pen that has a huge pile of cow shit they can climb on. Then they are stacked into train cars and taken to be slaughtered - the lucky ones die on the way - the rest are hit with electric sticks that kill them instantly (most of the time.)

Veal? Babt cows that never see the light of day. They are in cages just small enough for them to stand in and that's how they spend their life. 

Chickens? In boxes - stacked up on each other - living in each others poop, then killed.

But that's OK because they use all their parts. Right? But what they do to Minks is horrible.


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## DeniseW (Jan 28, 2009)

Tooz said:


> My thoughts exactly. I eat meat, but I don't eat veal, lobster or foie gras due to the nature of it. Mink is another cruel thing, animal rights or no.




Tried to rep you but it wouldn't let me so I'm doing it here instead.....


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> what if one doesnt wear leather boots or eat ribs and chicken? can they chide you then?



As a matter of fact - yes you can.  I respect you living your convictions Gwarior.


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## katorade (Jan 28, 2009)

ashmamma84 said:


> If a woman wants to spend her hard earned money on a mink, sable or any other coat that's her damn business. I have a fur my mother passed on to me and she has several and they look absolutely regal. Someone will always have something to say...but I don't give a damn. Let 'em talk, let 'em talk, let 'em talk! cause at the end of the day I have what I want and really don't have to answer to anyone. And what's more is a find that people who have such a serious problem with it aren't totally vegan themselves anyway...



Ash, no doubt. The wearing of fur is not what I'm taking issue with at all here. If people want to wear it, then that's their prerogative. What I took issue with is that Sandie said she valued animal life just as much as human life, then completely contradicted herself by saying she wanted a fur coat! That's like saying you're totally against child labor but that you love Kathie Lee's K-Mart line circa the early '90s.



> So what?? What gives you the right to judge me???
> 
> I love my dogs but I eat meat, and so do they. And somehow that makes me wrong. Bull.
> 
> ...



Oh please, Sandie. Pointing out that your wants for a fur coat are an absolute mockery to animal well-being isn't saying that I'm better than you. Nowhere did I say I was better than you and my opinions were better than yours, just that you blatantly contradicted yourself.

_(*Moderator edited out personal attack*)_


----------



## DeniseW (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> So is all meat that we buy and eat. It's no different. In fact cows are tortured by the way they are fed in order to fatten them up for market quickly. They are fed on corn alone which makes them very sick and causes them to have stomach ulcers that are very painful, and they have to be killed within 6 weeks because otherwise they just die. And then they are hurded into stockyards waiting to be taken to slaughter. Have you ever seen a stockyard? The cows are crowded into small holding pens where they can't move. If they are lucky they are in a pen that has a huge pile of cow shit they can climb on. Then they are stacked into train cars and taken to be slaughtered - the lucky ones die on the way - the rest are hit with electric sticks that kill them instantly (most of the time.)
> 
> Veal? Babt cows that never see the light of day. They are in cages just small enough for them to stand in and that's how they spend their life.
> 
> ...




Trust me, I know all the cruel ways animals that are raised for food have to live with, I am just saying that fur is particularly cruel, sometimes those animals are skinned while still alive so some Park Avenue bitch can look good in her mink stole??? For Christ's sake, give me a fucking break!!!


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

ashmamma84 said:


> If a woman wants to spend her hard earned money on a mink, sable or any other coat that's her damn business. I have a fur my mother passed on to me and she has several and they look absolutely regal. Someone will always have something to say...but I don't give a damn. Let 'em talk, let 'em talk, let 'em talk! cause at the end of the day I have what I want and really don't have to answer to anyone. And what's more is a find that people who have such a serious problem with it aren't totally vegan themselves anyway...



THANK YOU - THANK YOU - THANK YOU!!! EXACTLY MY POINT.


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## AshleyEileen (Jan 28, 2009)

Did anyone ever think that if you don't take advantage of the products made from animals then the animals died in vain?


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## Tooz (Jan 28, 2009)

katorade said:


> Ash, no doubt. The wearing of fur is not what I'm taking issue with at all here. If people want to wear it, then that's their prerogative. What I took issue with is that Sandie said she valued animal life just as much as human life, then completely contradicted herself by saying she wanted a fur coat! That's like saying you're totally against child labor but that you love Kathie Lee's K-Mart line circa the early '90s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You are a gem, I tell you what.


----------



## DeniseW (Jan 28, 2009)

ashmamma84 said:


> If a woman wants to spend her hard earned money on a mink, sable or any other coat that's her damn business. I have a fur my mother passed on to me and she has several and they look absolutely regal. Someone will always have something to say...but I don't give a damn. Let 'em talk, let 'em talk, let 'em talk! cause at the end of the day I have what I want and really don't have to answer to anyone. And what's more is a find that people who have such a serious problem with it aren't totally vegan themselves anyway...




well, as long as your mother looks regal and you have what you want, then that's all that matters, isn't it??


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> Trust me, I know all the cruel ways animals that are raised for food have to live with, I am just saying that fur is particularly cruel, sometimes those animals are skinned while still alive so some Park Avenue bitch can look good in her mink stole??? For Christ's sake, give me a fucking break!!!



If I want to wear a fur coat someday it's nobodies business.


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## DeniseW (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> If I want to wear a fur coat someday it's nobodies business.




and if I choose to wish that someone drops a bucket of paint on you, that's nobody's business either....


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

katorade said:


> So you're saying you'd also be totally cool with wearing a jacket made out of, say, Tooz's skin?


I call dibs on the Tooz shoes.


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## katorade (Jan 28, 2009)

elle camino said:


> and katorade: for real, my last post stands. so you disagree with them! alright! neat! don't blow a damn gasket, don't give them more power over your mental state than they deserve, if they're so clearly full of shit then don't assume the rest of the population is just supporting them to be willfully daft or whatever. you look into what PETA's about and see a bunch of BS, someone else looks into it and sees something they like and want to support. as we went over in another thread a while ago: to each their own. and meanwhile, you're expending what seems to be a not-insignifigant amount of emotional energy being all pissed off at them, while they chug merrily along unaffected.
> so who wins.




I typically tend to come off as pretty passionate about things when I post, but really, I'm not blowing a gasket. I just take every opportunity I can to try and give people the opposing view of PETA when it comes up in conversation. Honestly, in person, if someone is for animal rights, I don't bash them and try to convert them to a world where the houses are made of sausage and we use chicken eggs as baseballs, I just try to direct them to other organizations that I think THEY would find a worthier cause, and seriously, most of the people that I've met that are supporters of PETA have absolutely no idea what they actually do. If I can even get one person to stop donating money to them and start donating it to a similar cause where there money will actually do what they want it to, then it's worth it to me.


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## GWARrior (Jan 28, 2009)

katorade said:


> And I'm sorry, but if you can't see the difference in VANITY and NOURISHMENT,_(*Moderator edited out personal attack*)_



animal protein isnt vital to human life. our early ancestors were pretty much veggies, hence the serious lack of canine teeth. so i dont really buy the nourishment arguement.

but yea. i do take issue with wearing animals for vanity purposes.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

_(*Moderator edited out personal attack*)_ I do respect animal life about as much as you maybe even more. But you're _(*Moderator edited out personal attack*)_ angry that you can't get me to agree with you or feel badly about what I said. I don't you know. Me wanting a fur coat while respecting animal life is as hypocritical as you eating meat and yelling at others for wearing fur. But you can't see past wanting to be right.

Name calling is the last choice of someone who can't come up with a rational argument. You have a nice day.





katorade said:


> Ash, no doubt. The wearing of fur is not what I'm taking issue with at all here. If people want to wear it, then that's their prerogative. What I took issue with is that Sandie said she valued animal life just as much as human life, then completely contradicted herself by saying she wanted a fur coat! That's like saying you're totally against child labor but that you love Kathie Lee's K-Mart line circa the early '90s.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Tooz (Jan 28, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> I call dibs on the Tooz shoes.



Dude, we're past that now. Discussion has moved on, or have you nothing real to say? I'll lean towards the latter.

RE: Elle--
I don't know that I am blowing a gasket, though again, PETA makes me mad because I generally try to keep out of other peoples' lives in my day-to-day, but if PETA is around, well...you can't escape them. They simply don't shut up. :\


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> and if I choose to wish that someone drops a bucket of paint on you, that's nobody's business either....



No actually that's a crime punishable by law. Can I throw a bucket of paint on your new leather shoes or boots or jacket??


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## Tooz (Jan 28, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> animal protein isnt vital to human life. our early ancestors were pretty much veggies, hence the serious lack of canine teeth. so i dont really buy the nourishment arguement.
> 
> but yea. i do take issue with wearing animals for vanity purposes.



It may not be vital, but it does technically qualify as nourishment. It is an option under that category, same as quorn or tofu. I eat all of the aforementioned, too. Those quorn nugget things are pretty good.


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## GWARrior (Jan 28, 2009)

AshleyEileen said:


> Did anyone ever think that if you don't take advantage of the products made from animals then the animals died in vain?



if less people took advantage of the products made from animals, then less animals would suffer and we'd all be happier and healthier.

now there's a thought!


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

Tooz said:


> Dude, we're past that now. Discussion has moved on, or have you nothing real to say? I'll lean towards the latter.


There's been very little worthwhile in this whole damn thread, IMHO.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> animal protein isnt vital to human life. our early ancestors were pretty much veggies, hence the serious lack of canine teeth. so i dont really buy the nourishment arguement.
> 
> but yea. i do take issue with wearing animals for vanity purposes.



I'm OK with people who live their convictions taking issue with me or anyone else - in a respectful way. But this whole thread has gotten rediculous. 

I say live and let live - If you don't like fur don't wear it, make your statement that way. 

The thing people have forgotten is - I don't even have a fur coat. LOL


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## Tooz (Jan 28, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> There's been very little worthwhile in this whole damn thread, IMHO.



On that, I must agree. This thread will be long gone in due time, but PETA will remain, haha.


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## DeniseW (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> No actually that's a crime punishable by law. Can I throw a bucket of paint on your new leather shoes or boots or jacket??




I don't wear leather shoes, boots or jacket but you can certainly throw some paint on my polyester coat if it makes you feel better.


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> I don't wear leather shoes, boots or jacket but you can certainly throw some paint on my polyester coat if it makes you feel better.


But how many baby polyesters had to die to make your coat???


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## DeniseW (Jan 28, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> There's been very little worthwhile in this whole damn thread, IMHO.



I think trying to educate small minded people on the evil of the fur industry is worthwhile indeed! You only think it's not worthwhile because your wife supports it.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> I don't wear leather shoes, boots or jacket but you can certainly throw some paint on my polyester coat if it makes you feel better.



I have no idea why this has all gotten so nasty. You want to throw paint on me just because I said I like fur. I mean come on is this all necessary???

You don't wear leather? Good for you - neither do I. But you can throw paint on my cloth coat if you want.

This is all very tiring for no goddam reason than a few people wanted to fight with me tonight.

If anyone doesn't like what I said - tough shit. It's my life and my beliefs, period.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> I think trying to educate small minded people on the evil of the fur industry is worthwhile indeed! You only think it's not worthwhile because your wife supports it.




How dare you. You don't know me or him. You are out of line.


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## Tooz (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I have no idea why this has all gotten so nasty. You want to throw paint on me just because I said I like fur. I mean come on is this all necessary???
> 
> You don't wear leather? Good for you - neither do I. But you can throw paint on my cloth coat if you want.
> 
> ...





Sandie_Zitkus said:


> How dare you. You don't know me or him. You are out of line.



She is out of line? You brought the anger into this whole thing. No one was actually flaming anyone when you brought the anger into the arena.


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> I think trying to educate small minded people on the evil of the fur industry is worthwhile indeed! You only think it's not worthwhile because your wife supports it.


You don't know me at all, do you????

There are an awful lot of small-minded folks around here, Denise. And they've been needlessly attacking Sandie.

And with that, I am exiting this thoroughly worthless thread.


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## DeniseW (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> How dare you. You don't know me or him. You are out of line.



I don't believe I am but for the sake of my well being, I am going to take a step back and leave this post before I have a stroke. And by the way, how dare you???


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## katorade (Jan 28, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> animal protein isnt vital to human life. our early ancestors were pretty much veggies, hence the serious lack of canine teeth. so i dont really buy the nourishment arguement.
> 
> but yea. i do take issue with wearing animals for vanity purposes.



Our ancestors were and always have been omnivorous. Our digestive system is built to be able to digest both animal and plant proteins. Regardless of that fact, in many areas of the world it isn't POSSIBLE to to derive proper protein-based nutrition from plant proteins alone, agriculturally or financially. Some places simply do not have the resources we do to be able to do that. Also, in many cases the farming of animals and farming of vegetation go hand in hand (i.e. manure used as fertilizer). 

I'm not using that as justification for myself, as I can and have lived on a vegetarian diet, just putting that out there, and I've always said that it's a personal choice for anyone when it comes to what they eat. I just have a particular disgust for certain practices done or luxuries taken in the name of vanity or gluttony (as was mentioned before, things like veal and foie gras, and fur). I rarely voice my opinion on them openly, and I'm not the type of person to walk up to someone eating veal scallopine and tell them that they're eating someone's tortured baby, but I AM the type of person to point out when someone's being a total hypocrite.


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> _(*Moderator edited out personal attack*)_


My God - don't you recognize a JOKE when you see one???

There's no use in discussing this subject with you any more, Denise. _(*Moderator edited out personal attack*)_


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

I'm glad you can see your own hypocrisy -- finally.





katorade said:


> I rarely voice my opinion on them openly, and I'm not the type of person to walk up to someone eating veal scallopine and tell them that they're eating someone's tortured baby, but I AM the type of person to point out when someone's being a total hypocrite.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> I don't believe I am but for the sake of my well being, I am going to take a step back and leave this post before I have a stroke. And by the way, how dare you???



Grasping, grasping. LOL


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

Tooz said:


> She is out of line? You brought the anger into this whole thing. No one was actually flaming anyone when you brought the anger into the arena.



Really?? I'm not angry - and have not been all night. But you can believe what you want. I'm watching TV with my husband eating grapes. *I don't recall being angry*

But you know throwing blame has become a fine art around here.


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## katorade (Jan 28, 2009)

GWARrior said:


> if less people took advantage of the products made from animals, then less animals would suffer and we'd all be happier and healthier.
> 
> now there's a thought!




I wholeheartedly agree with you there, even while on a somewhat opposite side of the spectrum.


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## Tooz (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Really?? I'm not angry - and have not been all night. But you can believe what you want. I'm watching TV with my husband eating grapes. *I don't recall being angry*
> 
> But you know throwing blame has become a fine art around here.



I'm not trying to blame. I'm honestly not. Katorade asked what you were saying, I simply stated I felt fur was different than meat for consumption, and sooooomeone blew a gasket or 50.

Dassal.


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## katorade (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I'm glad you can see your own hypocrisy -- finally.



Really? Point out exactly where I'm a hypocrite. Please try.


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## ashmamma84 (Jan 28, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> well, as long as your mother looks regal and you have what you want, then that's all that matters, isn't it??



Actually, in this case, yes. My mother will buy what the hell she wants and give less than a damn about what PETA or any of its supporting members think. She isn't breaking any laws and would dare ANYONE to throw paint on what is rightfully hers. No time for the foolery, the woman has. Fur isn't your thing, so what? Don't project your personal problem onto other folk. 

I don't give a damn what people don't like; hell, I'm sure there are things in your life that people might have an issue with, so we could play tit for tat or we could live and let live. And dammit, I choose the latter.


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## DeniseW (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Really?? I'm not angry - and have not been all night. But you can believe what you want. I'm watching TV with my husband eating grapes. *I don't recall being angry*
> 
> But you know throwing blame has become a fine art around here.




and here it comes, boo hoo hoo, nobody likes me and every one picks on me....poor poor pitiful me. Isn't it about that time of year when you give your going away speech?


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

katorade said:


> Really? Point out exactly where I'm a hypocrite. Please try.



I'm tired - I'm not in the mood. You already know anyway.


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## katorade (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I'm tired - I'm not in the mood. You already know anyway.




Yeah, good try! Strong effort.  Not one thing? Not even one?


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> and here it comes, boo hoo hoo, nobody likes me and every one picks on me....poor poor pitiful me. Isn't it about that time of year when you give your going away speech?



You know Denise for someone who called me a friend not too long ago you sure have a lot of pent up anger toward me. _(*Moderator edited out personal attack*)_

And no I'm not going anywhere. You go ahead and continue your tirade.


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## katorade (Jan 28, 2009)

Wayne_Zitkus said:


> Oh, I HAVE a set, Denise. I only side with Sandie when she's right, which is most of the time. Including tonight.
> 
> And you're actually calling Sandie out, which is a violation of the rules. So you might as well quit while you're behind.




Absolutely NOBODY singled her out. Not one. She just happens to be the only person arguing on her side. She entered into it of her own free will, and she's free to stop whenever she wants. Don't even try to throw the "rules" cop out in here because it's a huuuuge stretch.


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## DeniseW (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> You know Denise for someone who called me a friend not too long ago you sure have a lot of pent up anger toward me. _(*Moderator edited out personal attack*)_
> 
> And no I'm not going anywhere. You go ahead and continue your tirade.




Sorry, I'm not friends with fur wearers, oops sorry, I promised to let you have the last word didn't I? Please continue on.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

katorade said:


> Absolutely NOBODY singled her out. Not one. She just happens to be the only person arguing on her side. She entered into it of her own free will, and she's free to stop whenever she wants.



Nobody singled me out?? _(*Moderator edited out personal attack*)_ You quoted my post! That's singling me out.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> Sorry, I'm not friends with fur wearers, oops sorry, I promised to let you have the last word didn't I? Please continue on.



You know what Denise - I considered you a friend, and obviously I was VERY wrong. But that's OK - now I know who you really are. This whole thing is just sick.


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## DeniseW (Jan 28, 2009)

and with that, I can peacefully go to sleep and dream about baby lambs and baby cows. Goodnight everyone, it's been a slice of heaven!!






Sandie_Zitkus said:


> You know what Denise - I considered you a friend, and obviously I was VERY wrong. But that's OK - now I know who you really are. This whole thing is just sick.


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## katorade (Jan 28, 2009)

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Nobody singled me out?? _(*Moderator edited out personal attack*)_ You quoted my post! That's singling me out.



Oh no, you quoted my post! You're singling me out, too!

Are you freaking kidding me? Am I supposed to believe that I can't ask a freaking question without someone getting their panties in a bunch and thinking I'm picking on them? For god's sake, you're the one that came in here, of your own free will, and willingly posted your own thoughts. Don't say anything if you don't want people to respond.


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Jan 28, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> and with that, I can peacefully go to sleep and dream about baby lambs and baby cows. Goodnight everyone, it's been a slice of heaven!!


Only after you left. 

You have the right to YOUR opinion, Denise. And others have the right to theirs. Throughout this thread, you have attacked everyone whose opinions differed from yours. All in all, you didn't make any converts to your way of thinking tonight. In fact, you made yourself look rather foolish.


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## Surlysomething (Jan 28, 2009)

*shakes my head*

what a clusterfuck


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## katorade (Jan 28, 2009)




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## furious styles (Jan 28, 2009)

Surlysomething said:


> *shakes my head*
> 
> what a clusterfuck



lol +1


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## MisticalMisty (Jan 28, 2009)

*Grabs a handful of popcorn*

Wow..this thread is like a train wreck...


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## Tooz (Jan 28, 2009)

katorade said:


>



I'm never having children!


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## DeniseW (Jan 28, 2009)

katorade, my fuck you is bigger than your fuck you, don't be hatin!!! lol


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## katorade (Jan 28, 2009)

DeniseW said:


> katorade, my fuck you is bigger than your fuck you, don't be hatin!!! lol



Lol, seriously. If people want to actually have a serious, civil debate, I'm down for it. We managed to do it for multiple pages in this thread and I harbor no ill will towards anyone. I can sling poo with the rest of the monkeys if they want me to, though, lol.


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## DeniseW (Jan 28, 2009)

katorade said:


> Lol, seriously. If people want to actually have a serious, civil debate, I'm down for it. We managed to do it for multiple pages in this thread and I harbor no ill will towards anyone. I can sling poo with the rest of the monkeys if they want me to, though, lol.[/QUOTE)
> 
> I admit that I'm not passionate about tons of things but this is something that I will fight to the death about and I'll be right next to you slinging poo with the monkeys.


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## elle camino (Jan 28, 2009)

katorade said:


> I typically tend to come off as pretty passionate about things when I post, but really, I'm not blowing a gasket. I just take every opportunity I can to try and give people the opposing view of PETA when it comes up in conversation. Honestly, in person, if someone is for animal rights, I don't bash them and try to convert them to a world where the houses are made of sausage and we use chicken eggs as baseballs, I just try to direct them to other organizations that I think THEY would find a worthier cause, and seriously, most of the people that I've met that are supporters of PETA have absolutely no idea what they actually do. If I can even get one person to stop donating money to them and start donating it to a similar cause where there money will actually do what they want it to, then it's worth it to me.


yeah, but like i said - as long as you don't approach it from an 'everyone else stupid but me' standpoint. i know plenty of people who support PETA, aren't assholes, don't mind how they spend their donations, and certainly aren't dumb. everyone's got different priorities, and for every source you site to back up your standpoint, they probably have at least one to contradict it. 
and hell maybe they've got issues with some organization you think is worthwhile. 
live and let live, or spend half your life arguing in circles with no result.


edit: oh i see the zitkuses are out tonight. gone are bygones, pass the jiffy pop.


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## KevMoney (Jan 28, 2009)

Oh man. I think...I don't know what I think. The point was missed about 20 posts ago.


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## katorade (Jan 29, 2009)

elle camino said:


> yeah, but like i said - as long as you don't approach it from an 'everyone else stupid but me' standpoint. i know plenty of people who support PETA, aren't assholes, don't mind how they spend their donations, and certainly aren't dumb. everyone's got different priorities, and for every source you site to back up your standpoint, they probably have at least one to contradict it.
> and hell maybe they've got issues with some organization you think is worthwhile.
> live and let live, or spend half your life arguing in circles with no result.



I do get what you're saying, and I honestly don't take the "everyone is stupid but me" viewpoint. I do realize there are people out there that know what they're doing, and I fully respect their convictions, even if I disagree with them. I just wouldn't feel like I was doing MY part on the other end of the spectrum if I didn't lay my convictions out on the table as well. If they were the only ones doing something about it, then where would that leave the rest of us? Arguing in circles is what makes the world go 'round, as if it were.
Mostly though, my posts go out to the people that AREN'T informed and are interested in finding out. If they don't want to read it, that's fine, too. It's hunky dory with me.


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Jan 29, 2009)

_I called her a bitch_
_She called me a slut_
_I said "let's go outside and see who the slut is, bitch!"_

The last two pages of this thread calls for a "Dear Penthouse, I never thought this would happen to me" sapphic kiss and make up session. I'm super serial.

Then again maybe it's Bannination night down at the old Scarf and Barf and nobody gets out without a set of teeth marks in their hiney.


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## katorade (Jan 29, 2009)

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> _I called her a bitch_
> _She called me a slut_
> _I said "let's go outside and see who the slut is, bitch!"_
> 
> ...



I rarely ever make it out of a buffet without teeth marks on my ass.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Jan 29, 2009)

... I seriously interrupted chronic nonstop masturbation for this? 

LAME.


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## Mini (Jan 29, 2009)

I have some ethical problems with the meat harvesting industry, but evolution says that I'm an omnivore. I will eat whatever the fuck I want, including PETA activists.

This has been my enlightened and relevant post of the day.


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## mossystate (Jan 29, 2009)

Almost there...allllmost....one more fuck you....yes.....yes.....mmmmmm.......yes......yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss.



See...no need to stop.

Now who is lame.


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## Sandie S-R (Jan 29, 2009)

Locking this thread for now. It may or may not be reopened. 

Moderator


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