# Why Are You Here???



## saucywench

From the Dimensions FAQ:

Dimensions originated as the newsletter of a "special interest group" of NAAFA, the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance. NAAFA, which was founded in 1969, fights against the discrimination fat people are subjected to in our society. One special interest group was for men who actually prefer fat partners. Dimensions was created to be a newsletter and then magazine for those who love fat women.

AgainDimensions was createdfor those who love fat women.

Hey! Im a fat woman. Maybe I belong here. Maybe theres a purpose and reason for me being here. Maybe there is some benefit to my being here. Knowing*because the creator/owner of Dimensions said so*that Dimensions was created for those who love fat women, whyIm willing to bet that any woman who is fat would find comfort (in a world where such comfort is seldom found) in the knowledge that she was welcome here.

From the Dimensions FAQ:

almost since the beginning Dimensions has been a forum for both fat women and the people who find them attractive. For men, Dimensions is a place where they can talk and learn about their preference, and plenty more. For women, it's a place where THEY, and not their skinny sisters, are the stars. It's a place where they can learn about their admirers and to see the beauty and attractiveness in their bodies.

But, wait! Theres more!

Dimensions is about size politics, acceptance, and mutual respect as much as it is about celebrating the larger figure.

Hmmlet me see if I can summarize this correctly:

*Dimensions was created for those who love fat women. For women, it's a place where THEY, and not their skinny sisters, are the stars. It's a place where they can learn about their admirers and to see the beauty and attractiveness in their bodies.*

Sounds pretty clear-cut to me. Apparently, though, it bears repeating:

*Dimensions was created for those who love fat women.*

_If it were not for the love of fat women, Dimensions wouldnt exist._

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

(1) If you are a fat woman, Dimensions was created with you in mind.
(2) If you are a man who loves fat women, Dimensions was created with you in mind.

It is obvious that Dimensions online has become much more since the original FAQ was written. However, the FAQ as it now stands is evidence to me as to who was the original intended audience/viewership/membership.

If you are a fat womanif you are a man who loves fat womenDimensions was created for you.

Who else might we say that Dimensions is for?

Again, from the FAQ: *Dimensions is about size politics, acceptance, and mutual respect as much as it is about celebrating the larger figure*.

Celebrating the larger figure.

So that would encompass fat men, as well. It would encompass women who love fat men.

(3) If you are a fat man, Dimensions is for you.
(4) If you are a woman who loves fat men, Dimensions is for you.

Wait! I certainly dont want to exclude anyone on the basis of sexual orientation:

(5) If you are a man who loves fat men, Dimensions is for you.
(6) If you are a woman who loves fat women, Dimensions is for you.

Lets sum it all up, then:


(1) If you are a fat woman, Dimensions was created with you in mind.
(2) If you are a man who loves fat women, Dimensions was created with you in mind.
(3) If you are a fat man, Dimensions is for you.
(4) If you are a woman who loves fat men, Dimensions is for you.
(5) If you are a man who loves fat men, Dimensions is for you.
(6) If you are a woman who loves fat women, Dimensions is for you.

The big question is, then, if you cannot claim one or more of these categories, why are you here? If you believe in size acceptance for only the segment (or even a particular few of that segment) that you admire, and no other, then why are you here? 

Me? Im a fat woman. I _belong_ here. I feel I have a _right_ to be here. How about you?

(And, no, I don't mind stirring the pot when it's a pot that needs to be stirred.)


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## Fyreflyintheskye

I'm just here for Cindy's sexy peekchewers. :blush:


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## Sandie_Zitkus

I'm a fat woman. I've been 'round these parts almost since it's inception. I was a member of the FA Sig in NAAFA when Dimensions was a black and white newsletter for that group.

According to your definition I belong here. So, why do so many people uestion why I'm here? Not liking someone is not a reason to tell someone that they should leave.

But like I said - I belong here. I love this place. This is like a home to me. It would be interesting to know why other's are here.

And - NO - I am not saying anyone should leave. Just thought I'd nip that in the bud!!


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## Dr. Feelgood

I think women are individual miracles*, and that beauty comes in all sizes, but that's not why I'm here. I'm here because I revel in the conversation of intelligent, thoughtful, courteous, and witty people.


*Guys are okay, but I like girls better. I'm just sayin'.


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## lougenessis

A friend told me about this site and I joined because i love everything about it and i finally feel like i belong.


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## Risible

I'm feeling devastated finding out that there are - apparently - a couple of well-regarded, prominent thin Dims members who are hatin' on their very fat sisters.

This is just - hurtful.

To keep on topic, my bona fides:

I'm a fat woman, and have been all sizes of fat my entire life.

I remember going to one of the first - if not the first (Conrad, do I recall correctly?) FA-SIG meetings at a NAAFA convention some 20 years ago.

I am/was a charter member of NAAFA's Fat Activist Task Force (I'm not currently active).

I've been a supporter and participant in Dimensions Magazine beginning with issue #1.


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## TraciJo67

At least two of the *intended* targets of this post fall under at least one of the categories that you've mentioned. In the meantime, others who have absolutely no reason to feel chastened or scolded are going to read this post and wonder if *they* are the targets.

So no, I don't see any particular reason for a message like this.


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## LalaCity

What the hell did I miss?


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## BeckaBoo

Hi I'm Becka and I'm a fat girl!

I love DIMS, reading other women's experiences, thoughts and feelings on size related matters on this board has really helped me understand a lot about myself and my body. I also find it very interesting to hear FA 's points of views on things. 

Basically I'm here because i find DIMS a fun place, useful resource and I'm all about celebrating the larger figure, cause i'm like a big girl yo. 


Interesting and topical thread.


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## Plainguy

Well put saucy. . I've been around the net, and in the size"acceptance" areas for the longest time, and Dimensions is indeed a haven for those who walk that road less travelled. Or who don't fit in the "mold" society has placed for us to fit in.

Yet it's about more than that. .It's hard to describe a place where you can complement a BBW or SSBBW and not feel as though everyone thinks you need counseling. . I have known since my younger days I had different preferences in women, but it wasn't until adulthood I was able to deal with my preferences. 

I've made a lot of friends here, and an enemy or two, but that's the beauty of life on the net, or in the real world for that matter. . The diversity, which is celebrated by this web site is something that could not be easily replaced. . . Just my 2 cents worth. . or maybe a dime?


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## stan_der_man

I'm a FA, married to a wonderful large sized woman. I've been a NAAFA member since the late 1980s. I subscribed to (and still have copies of...) Dimensions magazine since almost the beginning.

I'm here to promote size acceptance from the FA perspective, and keep in touch with some wonderful people I've met here over the years. But the negative attitudes and balkanization here in Dimensions are causing me to rethink my commitment, and my desire to be actively involved in what goes on around here. The underlying tone of this thread which (what I perceive) attempts to ostracize those who "don't belong here" exemplifies why I'm becoming disillusioned with Dimensions. I've always thought this place was open to all supporters and was dedicated to treating them equally.

Correct me if I'm wrong...


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## love dubh

She's just publicly castigating LoveBHMs and I, Stan. No worries for you.


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## Miss Vickie

TraciJo67 said:


> At least two of the *intended* targets of this post fall under at least one of the categories that you've mentioned. In the meantime, others who have absolutely no reason to feel chastened or scolded are going to read this post and wonder if *they* are the targets.
> 
> So no, I don't see any particular reason for a message like this.



What she said.

As for why _I'm_ here, I'm a formerly super sized woman who fervently believes that people of ALL sizes deserve respect, dignity, and equal and fair treatment. I've been part of the Dimensions online community since I got The Internets in 1997 or thereabouts and have supported the idea of size acceptance since that day. As a nurse I work toward opening the minds of my colleagues that fat can be fit and that all of our patients deserve to be treated with dignity and compassion. I'm also married to, and happen to adore, a fella who's a BHM.


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## stan_der_man

BTW...

I discovered a typo in the Dimensions FAQs... It states that we have the ability to send "PMs" or "Private Messages" to each other.


The word "Private" should be amended to "Public"...





believes_in_respecting_privacy_man_stan


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## moore2me

saucywench said:


> From the Dimensions FAQ:
> 
> Dimensions originated as the newsletter of a "special interest group" of NAAFA, the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance. NAAFA, which was founded in 1969, fights against the discrimination fat people are subjected to in our society. One special interest group was for men who actually prefer fat partners. Dimensions was created to be a newsletter and then magazine for those who love fat women.
> 
> AgainDimensions was createdfor those who love fat women.
> 
> Hey! Im a fat woman. Maybe I belong here. Maybe theres a purpose and reason for me being here. Maybe there is some benefit to my being here. Knowing*because the creator/owner of Dimensions said so*that Dimensions was created for those who love fat women, whyIm willing to bet that any woman who is fat would find comfort (in a world where such comfort is seldom found) in the knowledge that she was welcome here.
> 
> From the Dimensions FAQ:
> 
> almost since the beginning Dimensions has been a forum for both fat women and the people who find them attractive. For men, Dimensions is a place where they can talk and learn about their preference, and plenty more. For women, it's a place where THEY, and not their skinny sisters, are the stars. It's a place where they can learn about their admirers and to see the beauty and attractiveness in their bodies.
> 
> But, wait! Theres more!
> 
> Dimensions is about size politics, acceptance, and mutual respect as much as it is about celebrating the larger figure.
> 
> Hmmlet me see if I can summarize this correctly:
> 
> *Dimensions was created for those who love fat women. For women, it's a place where THEY, and not their skinny sisters, are the stars. It's a place where they can learn about their admirers and to see the beauty and attractiveness in their bodies.*
> 
> Sounds pretty clear-cut to me. Apparently, though, it bears repeating:
> 
> *Dimensions was created for those who love fat women.*
> 
> _If it were not for the love of fat women, Dimensions wouldnt exist._
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> (1) If you are a fat woman, Dimensions was created with you in mind.
> (2) If you are a man who loves fat women, Dimensions was created with you in mind.
> 
> It is obvious that Dimensions online has become much more since the original FAQ was written. However, the FAQ as it now stands is evidence to me as to who was the original intended audience/viewership/membership.
> 
> The big question is, then, if you cannot claim one or more of these categories, why are you here? If you believe in size acceptance for only the segment (or even a particular few of that segment) that you admire, and no other, then why are you here?
> 
> Me? Im a fat woman. I _belong_ here. I feel I have a _right_ to be here. How about you?
> 
> (And, no, I don't mind stirring the pot when it's a pot that needs to be stirred.)




*Saucy,

I have a "few" others that should be welcome here, (not a comprehensive list)


Health care providers who can offer expert advice and tips, in a non-threatening manner of course.


Artists who produce creative, positive, accurate or inspiring work featuring the fat community.


People who are browsing for positive information on the fat community and here's an important group - people who we can convince that we are not the horrible creatures sometimes portrayed in the media. This includes educators and writers that we can infuence or who can influence others.


Designers of consumer products such as clothes, cars, chairs, etc. and providers of services that cause us problems such as airlines, passenger trains, buses, etc.


Family members of fat children or relatives who are looking for information on dealing with their child, sister, aunt, or uncle. These family members may stumble in here accidentally, but they are welcome to look around and find out the positives (and negatives) regarding our culture and their fat kin.


Brad Pitt, Leonardo DiCaprio, George Clooney, and Sean Connery IMHO


*


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## Sandie_Zitkus

You know what - given most circumstances I would agree with you Stan. But if what I am hearing is true - and I am assuming it is because the 2 people in question are not saying they didn't do it - they don't belong here. And ya know what seeing as this is supposed to be a place of acceptance for fat people, I think their horrible behavior might warrant banning.

Sure there are people here I don't like.But I have never said or even thought the shit I am hearing about in this situation. 

Grow up ladies and learn some respect!




fa_man_stan said:


> BTW...
> 
> I discovered a typo in the Dimensions FAQs... It states that we have the ability to send "PMs" or "Private Messages" to each other.
> 
> 
> The word "Private" should be amended to "Public"...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> believes_in_respecting_privacy_man_stan


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## Chimpi

saucywench said:


> (1) If you are a fat woman, Dimensions was created with you in mind.
> (2) If you are a man who loves fat women, Dimensions was created with you in mind.
> (3) If you are a fat man, Dimensions is for you.
> (4) If you are a woman who loves fat men, Dimensions is for you.
> (5) If you are a man who loves fat men, Dimensions is for you.
> (6) If you are a woman who loves fat women, Dimensions is for you.
> 
> Me? I’m a fat woman. I _belong_ here. I feel I have a _right_ to be here. How about you?



I disagree with your word of "belong", saucy, but I do understand what you mean behind it. To me, it just seemed a little harsh in the context that you used it. I remain clueless as to where all of this has spawned, but I will offer my own personal thoughts.

To answer your specific question (that I think you're asking) - from your list(s):
I am a fat man, whom loves fat women, whom happens to find other fat men attractive (in a very non-sexual way), and welcome the attendance of Size Accepting, Fat Accepting, and Self Accepting people of all kinds - fat or thin. I, too (like stan, the fucking awesome dude that he is), have "always thought this place was open to all supporters and was dedicated to treating them equally." Those words which you have copied and pasted into this thread are, in fact, words typed by our OverLord, the very kind and generous man who has given us all a welcome home. But, indeed, I think it _is_ a place for *all* a welcome home.
I believe that people that do not necessarily fall under those strict guidelines also have a welcome home here at Dimensions. As long as one does so courteously, why should a person not be welcome here that isn't fat, doesn't find fat people sexually attractive, and is not any sort of an activist in the Size Acceptance 'movement', but happens to enjoy certain peoples' company, or feels that everyone should be treated equally. I believe that. I just happen to be fat and love fat women in the process; I also enjoy certain peoples' company that have found themselves a home here at Dimensions.

I'm here to offer my thoughts, my support, my advice, my learnings, as well as being here to learn, accept, and grow more into what I hope to be some day. Dimensions is a place with many members, and it's still growing. There are always "bad apples" that the majority of people feel uncomfortable around. No one is required to post, no one is required to be anything that others want them to be, nothing is contracted or legally signed. This community changes with the times, the mindsets, and the 'popular' voices and thoughts. It always will.
I'm here, apart of all of that.

*EDIT:*


Dr. Feelgood said:


> I'm here because I revel in the conversation of intelligent, thoughtful, courteous, and witty people.


That too.


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## LalaCity

Calling for people to be banned is out of line, I feel.

If people have had their dirty laundry aired in public they have probably already suffered enough condemnation and chastisement.

A thread like this is just continuing hurt feelings needlessly, in my opinion.


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## mossystate

Lala, I agree that calling out for people to be banned is a bad idea.

Now, I have no sympathy for those involved, and while I would not ask for a pint of blood, I do not agree with the " have suffered enough ".

The chips will fall where thay fall, but, I don't see this as an ...' oops '. People who know what went down can just distance themselves or not..whatever. It's the kind of decision that people make all the time.


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## Dr. P Marshall

I'm here because I'm a woman who loves fat men. At least, that's what brought me here. What has made me stay and participate more all the time is that I have found a lot of interesting people here of both genders and all shapes and sizes having many very interesting and intelligent discussions about a lot of issues. I have found a lot in common with many of the male FAs and have found many of the BBW to be intelligent and interesting women and that has made me venture out beyond the BHM board. I have also learned a great deal about the challenges fat people face and have come to understand many things that I didn't intuitively know as someone who is not fat themselves. I like to think in the long run, that knowledge will make me a better partner to BHM in my life. Also, I want to see the world made easier for all fat people and their admirers. I knew things weren't as easy for big folks, but I admit to being a little naive when I got here as to how difficult things can be sometimes for some.


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## Sandie_Zitkus

I suggested it. It's up to Conrad what he does. And ya know what? I really don't give a crap if their feelings are hurt. The people they ridiculed are hurt more.






LalaCity said:


> Calling for people to be banned is out of line, I feel.
> 
> If people have had their dirty laundry aired in public they have probably already suffered enough condemnation and chastisement.
> 
> A thread like this is just continuing hurt feelings needlessly, in my opinion.


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## ThikJerseyChik

fa_man_stan said:


> BTW...
> 
> I discovered a typo in the Dimensions FAQs... It states that we have the ability to send "PMs" or "Private Messages" to each other.
> 
> 
> The word "Private" should be amended to "Public"...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> believes_in_respecting_privacy_man_stan




Stan, can you expand on this statement....I am sure there are a lot of us youngsters on the board who truly believe that our PM's are just that....private...

??


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## Sandie S-R

ThikJerseyChik said:


> Stan, can you expand on this statement....I am sure there are a lot of us youngsters on the board who truly believe that our PM's are just that....private...
> 
> ??



Not Stan, but as a moderator I can assure you that your PMs are private. Admins and mods have no access to PMs. The only way your PM would become not private, is if the person you send a PM to shares it with others. That we have no control over.


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## ThikJerseyChik

Thank you for the clarification...I would also like to thank those who PM'd me with concern and reaffirmations....there are some very caring people on this board. It's sometimes difficult to blend all these personalities and there are bound to be differences of opinions, personality clashes, alpha males and females along with those who enjoy stirring up things. This happens in all walks of life....we are all here to network, chat and make friends as well as share ideas.

Can't we ALL just try a bit harder to get along???

A bit simplistic, maybe...but doable.

TJC


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## sugar and spice

ThikJerseyChik said:


> Thank you for the clarification...I would also like to thank those who PM'd me with concern and reaffirmations....there are some very caring people on this board. It's sometimes difficult to blend all these personalities and there are bound to be differences of opinions, personality clashes, alpha males and females along with those who enjoy stirring up things. This happens in all walks of life....we are all here to network, chat and make friends as well as share ideas.
> 
> Can't we ALL just try a bit harder to get along???
> 
> A bit simplistic, maybe...but doable.
> 
> TJC


 AMEN Sister!!!!:wubu:


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## ripley

fa_man_stan said:


> BTW...
> 
> I discovered a typo in the Dimensions FAQs... It states that we have the ability to send "PMs" or "Private Messages" to each other.
> 
> 
> The word "Private" should be amended to "Public"...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> believes_in_respecting_privacy_man_stan





So we should ignore the big pile of crap in the middle of the carpet because taking a shit should be private?


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## LisaInNC

I'm here cause I heard there were free cupcakes.


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## pudgy

I'm here because I'm a man who loves fat women. This sentiment of course has matured over the past 3 years. I used to be a man who just loved _pictures_ of fat women. But as I came to some realizations about myself and my love life, it became more about the message that _*every person has the potential for beauty.*_ Including (and maybe even especially) fat women. I say potential because some people will destroy their own beauty by either allowing themselves to be beat up by society or beating their own selves. But they have beauty that simply needs to be uncovered, dusted off.


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## Sandie_Zitkus

ripley said:


> So we should ignore the big pile of crap in the middle of the carpet because taking a shit should be private?



No I think we should make the ones who made the mess clean it up.


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## LisaInNC

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> No I think we should make the ones who made the mess clean it up.



Ok...on a serious note...this reminds me of the Dog the Bounty Hunter thing. What was said was a private thing and had he known he was being recorded he prolly would not have said what he did, but I seriously doubt he would incorporate himself in with people he obviously loathes just to have fun at their expense. 
The evil doers in question are obviously here for that very reason..and I just wanna say....how very sad...Can you imagine what it must be like for two girls who are thin but still social outcasts? I bet they go to the special olympic games so they can feel smarter as well. I dont think they should be banned...I think they should be pitied.
I met one of the girls in real life...and I can assure you...she has no business talking shit about ANYONE. 
female unabomber


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## Jazz Man

I came here with one of the cupcakes. Yeah, I didn't really know where we were going. It said it was a surprise.


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## LisaInNC

Jazz Man said:


> I came here with one of the cupcakes. Yeah, I didn't really know where we were going. It said it was a surprise.



Let me guess...the cupcake ditched you for another tummy?


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## Sandie_Zitkus

OK wait I want to go pop some popcorn before this gets real good.

Be right back!!






LisaInNC said:


> Ok...on a serious note...this reminds me of the Dog the Bounty Hunter thing. What was said was a private thing and had he known he was being recorded he prolly would not have said what he did, but I seriously doubt he would incorporate himself in with people he obviously loathes just to have fun at their expense.
> The evil doers in question are obviously here for that very reason..and I just wanna say....how very sad...Can you imagine what it must be like for two girls who are thin but still social outcasts? I bet they go to the special olympic games so they can feel smarter as well. I dont think they should be banned...I think they should be pitied.
> I met one of the girls in real life...and I can assure you...she has no business talking shit about ANYONE.
> female unabomber


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## moore2me

ThikJerseyChik said:


> Thank you for the clarification...I would also like to thank those who PM'd me with concern and reaffirmations....there are some very caring people on this board. It's sometimes difficult to blend all these personalities
> 
> *And some of us (myself included) have been know to display different personalities from day to day (ie. Sybil).
> 
> She's typing again - I told her not to do it.
> I know, but I can't get her to stop. Let's go get Zefora.
> Here she comes, and she's in a foul mood again.
> Who dares disturb the meditation of Zefor? I was just beginning to convince the woman to let us all out so everyone can join the cult of the Otter Clan . . . . . . .*
> 
> 
> and there are bound to be differences of opinions, personality clashes, alpha males and females along with those who enjoy stirring up things. This happens in all walks of life....we are all here to network, chat and make friends as well as share ideas.
> 
> Can't we ALL just try a bit harder to get along???
> 
> A bit simplistic, maybe...but doable.
> 
> TJC



*
TJC, I don't enjoy stirring things up as much as I do sharpening my sword. But, you're right, this place is a melting pot and visiting or sharing is totally voluntary. But, Roberts Rules of Order stresses to be civilized and courteous even when you disagree.*


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## Mini

So, if I've got this straight, private conversations got made public and now we supposedly hate some thin people? Whuh?


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## Jazz Man

LisaInNC said:


> Let me guess...the cupcake ditched you for another tummy?


Easy come, easy go. Guess I'd better get checked for cavities.


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## LisaInNC

Jazz Man said:


> Easy come, easy go. Guess I'd better get checked for cavities.



And gingivitis


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## Mini

OK, this is goddamn ridiculous. I just got some PMs that clarified the uproar; all I can say is there's some rather sickening hypocrisy on display here.


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## Aliena

Well I'm clueless as to what pile of shit is in the middle of Dimensions carpet; really. 
But...if the door is closed to certain "types", because they don't match the idea of what this place was originally intended for, I can't help but think 2 or more things:

1)It's an opinion Dimensions does not and should not have room to grow into a more *rounded* cornerstone

2)Dimensions (being founder/supporters/participants) clearly feel because fat is slayed in the real world, the slay must be returned by not accepting difference. (The very thing I assume(d) as a Dim's supporter and participant we were striving for; to be accepted because we ARE beautilfully different--albeit the way the media/society portrays us)

3)We (Dimensions) will lable those who fall into the perceptions of the *norm* as taboo and not really welcomed, even though we could consider the possibility the reason the *taboo* participants are here, is because maybe--just maybe--we *ARE* getting the "fat IS is not only "OK" but *beautiful*" message out.

4)Dimensions too wants to carry a "party line" in likeness of the media and possibly not be open to educate the public view of the prejudices faced by a fat person. 
(such as mentioned by Moore2Me; excellent post by the way)


These are just to name a few. Again I'm not sure what pile of shit is in the floor, but if I may state there has been a time (not to long ago) I came to bad stances with a group of popular posters here too. We had a major disagreement and became _less_ friendly with one another. 

I imagine they don't like me and I have fondness issues with them too. Still, I *respect* them and their opinions (even though we might have different views) and would want them to have the same for me too. (I believe them to, because they have shown the respect of respect)

My point: Acceptance. It is what it is. 


I'm here because I like the intelligent, witty, friendly, and outgoing folks. The good stuff has rubbed off on me and has helped with my self-esteem. I met my husband through NAAFA and I have met/made friends with some very fantastic individuals, while being jealous of not having the opportunity to meet others. For me it's not only about fat acceptance, but fellowship with those who want to be accepted as being fat, those who are willing to accept (as well as adore) us fat people, those who want to spread the word of fat awareness, and to educate/reform popular view in society. 

One thing to remember: (something *I*, unfortunately, have to remind myself now and again)
Acceptance is as acceptance does. 

Food for thought.


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## Jazz Man

I'm relatively new but this is the first time I've seen people on this board in open hostility. I'm not sure I want to know details.


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## Famouslastwords

I wanna be brought up to speed too. Someone please enlighten me via PM!


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## Blackjack

I'd just like to express a general 







towards the drama.


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## Frankie

ripley said:


> So we should ignore the big pile of crap in the middle of the carpet because taking a shit should be private?



See, this is why I love you. And pink, I love pink, too. :kiss2:


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## Zandoz

I'm here because.....ummmmm....welllllllll....aaaaaaaaaa...it was my mom's birthday, and apparently mom and dad..........................................................................................


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## Sugar

Blackjack said:


> I'd just like to express a general
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> towards the drama.



LMAO That is THE very best gif ever!

You know I don't post much on regular boards because of things like this. On the foodee board life is much calmer. Plus everytime I've said something I fully believe in I've been told I'm clearly wrong.

This time if I'm told I'm wrong...SFW. This could be totally off topic, but I suppose that's why mods can delete posts?

I came to dims looking for support. I've made some wonderful friends and learned a thing or two about unkind people.

I read the exchange sometime ago...sick, sad, pathetic, unkind, snarky...all those words came to mind. I find it really odd that people who have such hate in their heart for fat people can be so at home here. I don't mod on this board, never will...but I am sure if someone talked like that in my home I'd kick them out with my fat foot in their backside. With or without socks. 

Being snide and making light of it rather than a HUGE I'm sorry to everyone that holds this place dear, only makes things worse.

Lisa likened this to Dog the Bounty Hunter...I liken this to a priest abusing someone. You put your faith in something...feel as though it is shelter in the storm only to find out that the devil you hope to escape is a wolf in sheep's clothing huddled with you. 

I hope with all of my heart that I will feel safe one day to post weight issues here...free from judgment.


----------



## LisaInNC

Lucky said:


> LMAO That is THE very best gif ever!
> 
> You know I don't post much on regular boards because of things like this. On the foodee board life is much calmer. Plus everytime I've said something I fully believe in I've been told I'm clearly wrong.
> 
> This time if I'm told I'm wrong...SFW. This could be totally off topic, but I suppose that's why mods can delete posts?
> 
> I came to dims looking for support. I've made some wonderful friends and learned a thing or two about unkind people.
> 
> I read the exchange sometime ago...sick, sad, pathetic, unkind, snarky...all those words came to mind. I find it really odd that people who have such hate in their heart for fat people can be so at home here. I don't mod on this board, never will...but I am sure if someone talked like that in my home I'd kick them out with my fat foot in their backside. With or without socks.
> 
> Being snide and making light of it rather than a HUGE I'm sorry to everyone that holds this place dear, only makes things worse.
> 
> Lisa likened this to Dog the Bounty Hunter...I liken this to a priest abusing someone. You put your faith in something...feel as though it is shelter in the storm only to find out that the devil you hope to escape is a wolf in sheep's clothing huddled with you.
> 
> I hope with all of my heart that I will feel safe one day to post weight issues here...free from judgment.



Yeah and what Sarah said!


----------



## Famouslastwords

Lucky said:


> LMAO That is THE very best gif ever!
> 
> You know I don't post much on regular boards because of things like this. On the foodee board life is much calmer. Plus everytime I've said something I fully believe in I've been told I'm clearly wrong.
> 
> This time if I'm told I'm wrong...SFW. This could be totally off topic, but I suppose that's why mods can delete posts?
> 
> I came to dims looking for support. I've made some wonderful friends and learned a thing or two about unkind people.
> 
> I read the exchange sometime ago...sick, sad, pathetic, unkind, snarky...all those words came to mind. I find it really odd that people who have such hate in their heart for fat people can be so at home here. I don't mod on this board, never will...but I am sure if someone talked like that in my home I'd kick them out with my fat foot in their backside. With or without socks.
> 
> Being snide and making light of it rather than a HUGE I'm sorry to everyone that holds this place dear, only makes things worse.
> 
> Lisa likened this to Dog the Bounty Hunter...I liken this to a priest abusing someone. You put your faith in something...feel as though it is shelter in the storm only to find out that the devil you hope to escape is a wolf in sheep's clothing huddled with you.
> 
> I hope with all of my heart that I will feel safe one day to post weight issues here...free from judgment.



Quoted for truth, and rep given.


----------



## Jack Skellington

I'm here out of spite.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Jack Skellington said:


> I'm here out of spite.




I'm here in spite of you


----------



## CherryFizz99

I'm here because I thought I had finally found a place to be accepted and maybe even admired as I am. If this isn't the case, someone please tell me now before I get more involved. Thanks.


----------



## Sugar

CherryFizz99 said:


> I'm here because I thought I had finally found a place to be accepted and maybe even admired as I am. If this isn't the case, someone please tell me now before I get more involved. Thanks.




Cherry,

This place is like a family...sometimes old stuff comes back. I think if you choose to stick around you'll like it a lot. I know I do. The fight here...well this too shall pass. By Memorial Day we'll be back to talking about bashes and favorite sandwiches!

My dramatic post was to make a point to those in the "know".

Hugs not drugs,
Sarah aka Lucky


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

CherryFizz99 said:


> I'm here because I thought I had finally found a place to be accepted and maybe even admired as I am. If this isn't the case, someone please tell me now before I get more involved. Thanks.



A couple of rotten apples won't spoil this whole place. There are really good people here. This is just a bump in the road. I hope you stick around. 

Sandie Zitkus


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

I never thought I'd say this D) but I agree with Sandie Z. 

Out of bad things can come very good ones. Out of an expression of ignorance springs support and love and friendship.

Anywhere else, such an expression would have gone unnoticed. Here, it was called out and challenged for the idiocy it was. I believe that this is just one more way for me to be reminded how wonderful Dimensions truly can be when rallying around a friend they believe to be wronged. 

:kiss2: to all of you ladies.


----------



## pudgy

Famouslastwords said:


> I wanna be brought up to speed too. Someone please enlighten me via PM!



Ditto. And I promise I won't iron your PM's onto my t-shirts.

EDIT

Questions basically answered. Gracias.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is this why that volcano erupted yesterday??????????

And yet Hell didn't freeze over! (I kid, I kid) LOL 




BigBeautifulMe said:


> I never thought I'd say this D) but I agree with Sandie Z.
> 
> Out of bad things can come very good ones. Out of an expression of ignorance springs support and love and friendship.
> 
> Anywhere else, such an expression would have gone unnoticed. Here, it was called out and challenged for the idiocy it was. I believe that this is just one more way for me to be reminded how wonderful Dimensions truly can be when rallying around a friend they believe to be wronged.
> 
> :kiss2: to all of you ladies.


----------



## mossystate

Ginny..love the new avatar..

I would hope that people would feel angry, no matter the particular target(s). I think that is the true test of how people feel, when someone feels it is ok to use something they ' have ', to pummel someone who does not have ' it '. 

Whether it is about people who are not fat, or an issue of some other perceived ' power ', it ....socks...err....sucks.


----------



## ripley

mossystate said:


> Ginny..love the new avatar..



They're all the rage.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Yes, ladies - my cankles will soon be all over Dims. <3 <3 <3


----------



## saucywench

Im just going to post this right now before I even pick up where I left off hours ago. I read about half a dozen or so responses to my post this afternoon before I became so furious I had to leave my house. Ive been away about four hours (now almost six in the time it has taken to write this). Although time has tempered my rage, I feel compelled to address some things.

First, I would like to thank those of you who took my post at face value and responded accordingly. Im very grateful for that and I appreciate your input. As for some of the rest of youI dont even feel like being nice about this.

<tangent>
Im 51 years old. Im a grownup and I know who I am. I read many of the threads here, but I seldom post. A lot of what I read justI dont know. It wears me the hell out--all the snark, all the pettiness, all the utter bullshit. When you mature as an adult, and you gain an understanding of what it means to be an adult, you want to put those tired, old aspects of yourself behind you. You want to do honor to the wisdom that all those years of experience, the learning of hard lessons from the many mistakes, have brought you. To come here to these boards and witness the degree of pathology that is evident in some of you peoples poststime after time after timefrankly, it embarrasses me 

Try a little experiment. Spend an hour or so reviewing pages of posts youve made here on these forums. Go ona little self-examination is good. A lot of self-examination is even better. Those posts represent the impression that you make upon others here. Your words are all we have to go by. How do those posts make you feel, in retrospect? Do you feel content that they are representative of your true self? Are the posts representative of who you feel at your core to be? Do your posts bring anything of value, in keeping with the spirit and intent of this site? Or do they embarrass you as much as they sometimes do me? Do you feel you suffer from frequent bouts of verbal diarrhea? Do you ramble on and on ad nauseum, with no particular intent? If itll make you feel any better, go ahead and read mine while youre at it, and see if you think Im content with the nature and content of my contributions.
</tangent>

Back to what I wanted to address. I dont know LovesBHM or lovedubh or whatever from jack. I couldnt connect them in any specific way to anything they may have posted here. I dont know a damned thing about any melodrama associated with them. Furthermore, I couldnt care less. If any of the rest of you are engaging in any melodrama, whether remotely or closely related, I dont care about yours, either. 

I am firmly entrenched and comfortable with who and what I am. The thing is, when you've reached this age, and you have become fully realized in adulthood, your tolerance level for bullshit of any type becomes extremely low. If I have something to say, I will say it. I dont need your permission or validation. If you say something stupid or piss me off, I will either keep my mouth shut or, if Im genuinely provoked, tell you to fuck off. If the latter is the case, dont hold your breath waiting for an apology; youre not getting one. If you say something that resonates with me, I will let you know. If you say something that I find humorous or witty, I will let you know. Thats how it works with me.

For the record (and I deeply resent feeling that I have to explain myself, I find this tiresome as hell), a post was made this morning in a private setting. There were sentiments expressed within that post that prompted me to start this thread, *based on some things that I have long felt and unrelated to any specific event or people* that I dont give a goddamn about. This isnt the first time that people have made assumptions about the meaning inherent in my posts and it fucking pisses me off. Stop jumping to conclusions and stop attributing meaning and intent to my posts where none was implied. As I have said, if I have something to say I will say it. If I dont say it, but you imply that I did, I will go off on you. Ask anyone whos been there; you dont want to be on the receiving end.


----------



## Frankie

ripley said:


> They're all the rage.



Hey man, why is mine taking so long?!


----------



## Sugar

saucywench said:


> Im just going to post this right now before I even pick up where I left off hours ago. I read about half a dozen or so responses to my post this afternoon before I became so furious I had to leave my house. Ive been away about four hours (now almost six in the time it has taken to write this). Although time has tempered my rage, I feel compelled to address some things.
> 
> First, I would like to thank those of you who took my post at face value and responded accordingly. Im very grateful for that and I appreciate your input. As for some of the rest of youI dont even feel like being nice about this.
> 
> <tangent>
> Im 51 years old. Im a grownup and I know who I am. I read many of the threads here, but I seldom post. A lot of what I read justI dont know. It wears me the hell out--all the snark, all the pettiness, all the utter bullshit. When you mature as an adult, and you gain an understanding of what it means to be an adult, you want to put those tired, old aspects of yourself behind you. You want to do honor to the wisdom that all those years of experience, the learning of hard lessons from the many mistakes, have brought you. To come here to these boards and witness the degree of pathology that is evident in some of you peoples poststime after time after timefrankly, it embarrasses me
> 
> Try a little experiment. Spend an hour or so reviewing pages of posts youve made here on these forums. Go ona little self-examination is good. A lot of self-examination is even better. Those posts represent the impression that you make upon others here. Your words are all we have to go by. How do those posts make you feel, in retrospect? Do you feel content that they are representative of your true self? Are the posts representative of who you feel at your core to be? Do your posts bring anything of value, in keeping with the spirit and intent of this site? Or do they embarrass you as much as they sometimes do me? Do you feel you suffer from frequent bouts of verbal diarrhea? Do you ramble on and on ad nauseum, with no particular intent? If itll make you feel any better, go ahead and read mine while youre at it, and see if you think Im content with the nature and content of my contributions.
> </tangent>
> 
> Back to what I wanted to address. I dont know LovesBHM or lovedubh or whatever from jack. I couldnt connect them in any specific way to anything they may have posted here. I dont know a damned thing about any melodrama associated with them. Furthermore, I couldnt care less. If any of the rest of you are engaging in any melodrama, whether remotely or closely related, I dont care about yours, either.
> 
> I am firmly entrenched and comfortable with who and what I am. The thing is, when you've reached this age, and you have become fully realized in adulthood, your tolerance level for bullshit of any type becomes extremely low. If I have something to say, I will say it. I dont need your permission or validation. If you say something stupid or piss me off, I will either keep my mouth shut or, if Im genuinely provoked, tell you to fuck off. If the latter is the case, dont hold your breath waiting for an apology; youre not getting one. If you say something that resonates with me, I will let you know. If you say something that I find humorous or witty, I will let you know. Thats how it works with me.
> 
> For the record (and I deeply resent feeling that I have to explain myself, I find this tiresome as hell), a post was made this morning in a private setting. There were sentiments expressed within that post that prompted me to start this thread, *based on some things that I have long felt and unrelated to any specific event or people* that I dont give a goddamn about. This isnt the first time that people have made assumptions about the meaning inherent in my posts and it fucking pisses me off. Stop jumping to conclusions and stop attributing meaning and intent to my posts where none was implied. As I have said, if I have something to say I will say it. If I dont say it, but you imply that I did, I will go off on you. Ask anyone whos been there; you dont want to be on the receiving end.



As you allowed these feelings so are others. So a post was taken from your intent and turned into something else...that happens all the time IRL & online. I'm not sure anyone is deserving of your threat that "you don't want to be on the receiving end". 

I am genuinely sorry if I contributed to your anger...I"m not sorry I spoke up on a subseqent post on "your" thread. In the future I will know to stay away from what you post as if it evolves into something else...well not so good. :doh:


----------



## ripley

Frankie said:


> Hey man, why is mine taking so long?!



I emailed it hours ago!


----------



## stan_der_man

Sandie S-R said:


> Not Stan, but as a moderator I can assure you that your PMs are private. Admins and mods have no access to PMs. The only way your PM would become not private, is if the person you send a PM to shares it with others. That we have no control over.



One good thing to come out of conspiracy theories is when they are proven wrong... It's comforting to have it reaffirmed that Dimensions is dedicated to respecting privacy.




moore2me said:


> *
> ... I don't enjoy stirring things up as much as I do sharpening my sword. ...*



OK... I'll stir then, you sharpen... 



ripley said:


> So we should ignore the big pile of crap in the middle of the carpet because taking a shit should be private?



Just curious Ripley... If you receive a sincere apology from someone who wronged you and they truly showed remorse for what they did, would you forgive them? We are all just human, trust me I can relate to this situation. Recently, I have myself burnt some bridges that probably will never be able to be rebuilt because of something I said and later regretted. Any person who is unwilling to forgive in the face of sincere remorse is no better than the one who crapped on the carpet.





BigBeautifulMe said:


> ...
> Out of bad things can come very good ones. Out of an expression of ignorance springs support and love and friendship.
> ...



As long as it's enclusive of the entire Dimensions community, I think that is a wonderful statement BBMe!


----------



## Tina

saucywench said:


> For the record (and I deeply resent feeling that I have to explain myself, I find this tiresome as hell), a post was made this morning in a private setting. There were sentiments expressed within that post that prompted me to start this thread, *based on some things that I have long felt and unrelated to any specific event or people* that I dont give a goddamn about. This isnt the first time that people have made assumptions about the meaning inherent in my posts and it fucking pisses me off. Stop jumping to conclusions and stop attributing meaning and intent to my posts where none was implied. As I have said, if I have something to say I will say it. If I dont say it, but you imply that I did, I will go off on you. Ask anyone whos been there; you dont want to be on the receiving end.


Saucy, I totally get where you're coming from. I have stayed out of this, but I think you should know that it just so happens that your post coincided with something very nasty and fat-hating -- and really, really disappointing -- that came to the forefront here. When I say "here" I don't necessarily mean on the board, but that's where it has been playing out, inevitably, simply because it was so nasty and ridiculous. So... timing, I guess. What you wrote fit pretty perfectly with many of the feelings that have been brewing, so there you go. Just one of those synergy kinda thangs. Please don't take it personally, Cin. 

Oddly, sometimes boards are self-cleansing. There's a Buddhist thought regarding turning poison into medicine. Maybe something like that can happen here, I hope. [/mod]


----------



## ripley

fa_man_stan said:


> Just curious Ripley... If you receive a sincere apology from someone who wronged you and they truly showed remorse for what they did, would you forgive them? We are all just human, trust me I can relate to this situation. Recently, I have myself probably burnt some bridges that will probably never be able to be rebuilt because of something I said and later regretted. Any person who is unwilling to forgive in the face of sincere remorse is no better than the one who crapped on the carpet.





When I got the pms from LovesBHMs and love dubh, I did not immediately send it on (because I didn't want the women that they derided in it to see it and be hurt)...I instead sent it to them, to see what their response would be. *I never once got any apology or sense of remorse.* I got a bunch of excuses that didn't hold water, and when I didn't accept those excuses, I was told that they viewed this as nothing more than an invasion of their privacy.

People here accepted and befriended love dubh and LovesBHM. I know because I was one of them. (LovesBHM even wrote me not too long ago complaining that one of her friends from the boards here was anti-fat in real life, but that she stuck up for SSBBW-dom. Ironic, eh?) We accepted them, befriended them, took them at their word that they were size-acceptant. Yes, the PM was supposed to be private, but it got out, and to me, *BECAUSE* it was intended to be private, is more likely to show their true selves, stripped of any facade they may put on for us.

To answer your question...yes, I forgive. My friends tell me that sometimes I in fact do it too readily and when it's not wise. I forgive when confronted with remorse and a sincere apology. Neither of which I have gotten even the barest whiff of in this case.


----------



## Frankie

ripley said:


> I emailed it hours ago!



I didn't realize you sent it to my personal e-mail address. I just uploaded it. Thanks, rip!


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Wow. I feel so...loved, in cankle solidarity! LOL. :kiss2:


----------



## ripley

Frankie said:


> I didn't realize you sent it to my personal e-mail address. I just uploaded it. Thanks, rip!



Only one I had for you, baby. :kiss2:


----------



## stan_der_man

saucywench said:


> I’m just going to post this right now before I even pick up where I left off hours ago. I read about half a dozen or so responses to my post this afternoon before I became so furious I had to leave my house. I’ve been away about four hours (now almost six in the time it has taken to write this). Although time has tempered my rage, I feel compelled to address some things....
> 
> ...If any of the rest of you are engaging in any melodrama, whether remotely or closely related, I don’t care about yours, either.
> ...


For what it's worth Saucywench, I apologize if I jumped to conclusions as to the intent of your thread. My comments were out of line. In my case anyway, you are probably right about bringing my own personal melodrama (and perceived issues...) to a place where they were completely unwarranted. And to you Ripley, also for jumping to conclusions.


As little as can be salvaged at times, and regardless of how things sometimes transpire, maybe an apology is simply the best thing to do if a wrong was apparently comitted.



Stan


P.S. I know you were probably angry when you typed this up Saucywench... but on that last sentence I quoted, you put an extra comma after the word "yours". Other than that everything else looked pretty good...


----------



## Eclectic_Girl

fa_man_stan said:


> P.S. I know you were probably angry when you typed this up Saucywench... but on that last sentence I quoted, you put an extra comma after the word "yours". Other than that everything else looked pretty good...



Actually, that's an optional comma; can be used for stylistic reasons. [/professional editor]

 back atcha, Stan


----------



## Friday

<----------'nuff said.


----------



## TraciJo67

saucywench said:


> Back to what I wanted to address. I dont know LovesBHM or lovedubh or whatever from jack. I couldnt connect them in any specific way to anything they may have posted here. I dont know a damned thing about any melodrama associated with them. Furthermore, I couldnt care less. If any of the rest of you are engaging in any melodrama, whether remotely or closely related, I dont care about yours, either.



I apologize if I read an intent on your part that didn't exist. The timing of this post, combined with the reason that you gave for posting it, made it seem very obvious to me. Since you state that this was not the reason, I'll take it on face value and apologize.

However, the overall tone and intent of your post still seems to be rather exclusionary to me -- telling people who belongs here, and who doesn't. I don't think that any of us should get to decide why people are here. Nor (as per your subsequent response) do I think we should make judgments about each other's "pathology" or remark about what fools "other people" are. That, to me, is exceedingly arrogant. Not to mention intolerant.




> For the record (and I deeply resent feeling that I have to explain myself, I find this tiresome as hell), a post was made this morning in a private setting. There were sentiments expressed within that post that prompted me to start this thread, *based on some things that I have long felt and unrelated to any specific event or people* that I dont give a goddamn about. This isnt the first time that people have made assumptions about the meaning inherent in my posts and it fucking pisses me off. Stop jumping to conclusions and stop attributing meaning and intent to my posts where none was implied. As I have said, if I have something to say I will say it. If I dont say it, but you imply that I did, I will go off on you. Ask anyone whos been there; you dont want to be on the receiving end.



If you can interfere with my ability to pay my mortgage, raise my child, perform at my job, or interact meaningfully with friends and family, then I'll grant you a degree power over me. Otherwise, I'm completely unfazed by threats (aside from being annoyed by them).


----------



## moore2me

saucywench said:


> Im just going to post this right now before I even pick up where I left off hours ago. I read about half a dozen or so responses to my post this afternoon before I became so furious I had to leave my house. Ive been away about four hours (now almost six in the time it has taken to write this). Although time has tempered my rage, I feel compelled to address some things.
> 
> *Dear Saucywench, Our written words are like birds. Once we turn them loose, they go all kinds of places, and not necessarily where we want them to. No need in getting "tore up" about it. You just end up hurting yourself.*
> 
> 
> First, I would like to thank those of you who took my post at face value and responded accordingly. Im very grateful for that and I appreciate your input. As for some of the rest of youI dont even feel like being nice about this.
> 
> *People don't always respond like we want them to. Some will, some won't, again no need getting mad about it. I can tell a dozen people to treat fat people with courtesy, dignity, and respect and I'll still get various responses. My way of helping my sister may be the exact opposite of someone else's idea of helping their sister.*
> 
> <tangent>
> Im 51 years old. Im a grownup and I know who I am. I read many of the threads here, but I seldom post. A lot of what I read justI dont know. It wears me the hell out--all the snark, all the pettiness, all the utter bullshit. When you mature as an adult, and you gain an understanding of what it means to be an adult, you want to put those tired, old aspects of yourself behind you. You want to do honor to the wisdom that all those years of experience, the learning of hard lessons from the many mistakes, have brought you. To come here to these boards and witness the degree of pathology that is evident in some of you peoples poststime after time after timefrankly, it embarrasses me
> 
> Try a little experiment. Spend an hour or so reviewing pages of posts youve made here on these forums. Go ona little self-examination is good. A lot of self-examination is even better. Those posts represent the impression that you make upon others here. Your words are all we have to go by. How do those posts make you feel, in retrospect? Do you feel content that they are representative of your true self? Are the posts representative of who you feel at your core to be? Do your posts bring anything of value, in keeping with the spirit and intent of this site? Or do they embarrass you as much as they sometimes do me? Do you feel you suffer from frequent bouts of verbal diarrhea? Do you ramble on and on ad nauseum, with no particular intent? If itll make you feel any better, go ahead and read mine while youre at it, and see if you think Im content with the nature and content of my contributions.
> </tangent>
> 
> *If I only wrote things that were of value, my writing would be few and far between. Yes, I ramble (especially about women's rights and a few of my favorite topics). Call it verbal diarrhea - I prefer to call it the Ted Kaczynski (Unabomber) effect because he was known for leaving books filled with pages of demented writings in between his other activities.
> *
> 
> Back to what I wanted to address. I dont know LovesBHM or lovedubh or whatever from jack. I couldnt connect them in any specific way to anything they may have posted here. I dont know a damned thing about any melodrama associated with them. Furthermore, I couldnt care less. If any of the rest of you are engaging in any melodrama, whether remotely or closely related, I dont care about yours, either.
> 
> I am firmly entrenched and comfortable with who and what I am. The thing is, when you've reached this age, and you have become fully realized in adulthood, your tolerance level for bullshit of any type becomes extremely low. If I have something to say, I will say it. I dont need your permission or validation. If you say something stupid or piss me off, I will either keep my mouth shut or, if Im genuinely provoked, tell you to fuck off. If the latter is the case, dont hold your breath waiting for an apology; youre not getting one. If you say something that resonates with me, I will let you know. If you say something that I find humorous or witty, I will let you know. Thats how it works with me.
> 
> For the record (and I deeply resent feeling that I have to explain myself, I find this tiresome as hell), a post was made this morning in a private setting. There were sentiments expressed within that post that prompted me to start this thread, *based on some things that I have long felt and unrelated to any specific event or people* that I dont give a goddamn about. This isnt the first time that people have made assumptions about the meaning inherent in my posts and it fucking pisses me off. Stop jumping to conclusions and stop attributing meaning and intent to my posts where none was implied. As I have said, if I have something to say I will say it. If I dont say it, but you imply that I did, I will go off on you. Ask anyone whos been there; you dont want to be on the receiving end.



*Again, don't let the fact that your writings are sometimes misinterpreted bother you. Lots of good and great authors have gone thru the same thing every since the history of the written word. It is a price we pay for exposing our tender underbelly.

And for the rest of you budding writers, I encourage you to put your thoughts down in writing. Be generous with your praise and be stingy with your criticism. Be kind and funny if you can. Be truthful but be wise about using the truth against your sisters and brothers. Their idea of the truth may be different from yours. If this sounds overly sappy - it is! *

*One little problem we (and I include myself) as fat people have developed is alligator hide when it comes to relating to other people. It is not unusual on these boards to hear someone say that they don't care about their fellow human beings. I think this is partly a defensive reaction from years of being accousted, called names, jumped on, and suffered prejudice. Saying "we don't care about other people", or "I don't give a damn about what someone else thinks" is an unhealthy attitude for the person that has to hold onto such a thing. It is better for our long range overall peace to forgive those who do us wrong (if we can).*


----------



## liz (di-va)

What this thread has come to be about--the two folks in question--is an administrative issue, to my way of thinking. They shouldn't be here, and the only way to ask for this to happen for various reasons turned out to be a public messy half-understood hoo-ha. It had to come out. Which is awful, and it got messier for dumb reasons, but that fact that these two people are still here at all has been incredibly upsetting, period. 

There is an entire world of ways to dislike and feel disgusted by fat folk, most of them quite easy, such as reading a magazine or watching TV. There is no reason to knowingly cultivate people who--unapologetically--feel that way here. They can find somewhere else to do it where they're not feeding off of real people's feelings up close nor benefitting from their friendship.


----------



## bexy

any kind person please enlighten me as to what the hell is going on? please??


----------



## Waxwing

TraciJo67 said:


> In the meantime, others who have absolutely no reason to feel chastened or scolded are going to read this post and wonder if *they* are the targets.



Yes. How many of us are now unwanted? Maybe I'm just paranoid but it feels weird.

Is there a reason it hasn't been locked yet? This is a private issue, from what I understand. Is public stoning that also makes everyone else feel like shit what we do here now?

Bexy, I ferreted out some details (and wish I hadn't), but apparently something private wasn't kept that way, and feelings were badly hurt. And now it's here as a thread to make sure everyone feels as uncomfortable as possible.


----------



## Tooz

I don't like this thread and I don't think it's appropriate.

Why?

It feels like it is (or should be) against the rules to open fire on some people's PMs. Yeah, yeah, they were hurtful and all, but initially they were said behind closed doors. Does that make what they said better? No. Does most of it come across as ignorant? Yes. However, here we are publicly discussing said PMs. Private Messages. Having a "QUICK, JUSTIFY YOURSELVES!" on a *public forum* is just going to divide everyone, much like some events in the past I can think of. One group's concerns will be disregarded, and you will end up with disgruntled (or further disgruntled, in my case) people.

I understand people's feelings were hurt by this. This thread is not going to make it better, though. Just leave it be and give them a chance to redeem themselves.


----------



## LisaInNC

Yeah so anyway...Where are the free cupcakes, damn it?!


----------



## Waxwing

LisaInNC said:


> Yeah so anyway...Where are the free cupcakes, damn it?!



I was depressed about this thread and ate them all. I'm sorry.


----------



## butch

I'm not nearly as angry about the issue in question as I was yesterday, but I still don't understand why the people in question aren't at least on a temporary ban? I have no idea how people get banned temporarily, but if any event warranted it, this one does.

It perplexes me all the time as to why any thin person wants to carry around so much hatred towards fat people? They're at the top of the pecking order, they get all the perks in life, and yet that isn't enough? They still feel such a precarious hold on their top dog status that they have to tear down fat people in order to feel good about themselves? I'm glad I don't have that level of internal conflict going on about my body, and feel bad for others who aren't so lucky. Life is a pretty miserable place when you feel ill at ease inside your own skin.

As to some of the OP's questions, I belong here because I'm fat, because I think fat people are hot, and because I like to have interesting conversations with the fat and the thin people on the board. I also spend so much time at this particular fat-related board because it seemed to me to offer the widest variety of opinions and personalities, and I like that. Which means that, in general, I have a high tolerance level for people who don't agree with me, who I don't particularly care for, and so forth. My tolerance level can't go high enough to include the hate I've been exposed to recently by some other prominent members of this board; I don't think anyone who truly believes in size acceptance could have a tolerance level high enough for that degree of fat hate.

As to Stan's question about sincere apologies-at this point they owe a sincere apology to the whole Dims Community, and if they offer one I think is semi-sincere, I'd be willing to contemplate whether I could forgive them or not. At this point, I won't be able to offer them any kind of olive branch.


----------



## bexy

Waxwing said:


> Bexy, I ferreted out some details (and wish I hadn't), but apparently something private wasn't kept that way, and feelings were badly hurt. And now it's here as a thread to make sure everyone feels as uncomfortable as possible.



Gotcha. thanks waxwing. 


well as my old nan used to say, worse things happen at sea. if you still wanna be friends with the 2 guys in question, do it. if you dont, dont. but this thread is going round in circles of ifs, buts, maybes and whodunnits.


----------



## TraciJo67

LisaInNC said:


> Yeah so anyway...Where are the free cupcakes, damn it?!



No cupcakes here, but I have some half-congealed chicken 'n dumplings I'd be willing to share


----------



## LisaInNC

Waxwing said:


> I was depressed about this thread and ate them all. I'm sorry.



Sorry? Sorry you ate all the cupcakes or sorry that I am gonna fly into a rage and kick you in the shin because I wont be getting any cupcakes?


----------



## LisaInNC

TraciJo67 said:


> No cupcakes here, but I have some half-congealed chicken 'n dumplings I'd be willing to share



Are we talking homemade (by this, I dont mean you opened the can at home) chicken n' dumplings?


----------



## Suze

Dunno what's going on, but I'll answer the original question:

I joined Dims because I'm a fat girl. I've never had any fat friends and my family is pretty much anti-fat. I've been told by everyone around me that fat sucks all my life. (That have made me feel reaaaally good about myself)
I needed to get more self worth and starting to accept myself because I will nevah be thin and life is too short to be miserable....Also needed to stop with the hating on others to feel better about myself.

I was pretty clueless before I joined and hadn't heard any of the terms (bbw, fa etc.). Dims is also the first and only board I've ever been a member off. (wtf is netiquette!?)


----------



## Waxwing

butch said:


> I'm not nearly as angry about the issue in question as I was yesterday, but I still don't understand why the people in question aren't at least on a temporary ban? I have no idea how people get banned temporarily, but if any event warranted it, this one does.



Because as much as we may dislike a private conversation, it's still a private conversation.


----------



## Red

LisaInNC said:


> Ok...Can you imagine what it must be like for two girls who are thin but still social outcasts? *I bet they go to the special olympic games so they can feel smarter as well.* I dont think they should be banned...I think they should be pitied.
> 
> female unabomber



WTF...seriously, what the fuck? I have no idea what this thread is about but that choice of words? Have a little think about who you're going to offend before you say ignorant remarks like that next time.


----------



## bexy

susieQ said:


> Dunno what's going on, but I'll answer the original question:
> 
> I joined Dims because I'm a fat girl. I've never had any fat friends and my family is pretty much anti-fat. I've been told by everyone around me that fat sucks all my life. (That have made me feel reaaaally good about myself)
> I needed to get more self worth and starting to accept myself because I will nevah be thin and life is too short to be miserable....Also needed to stop with the hating on others to feel better about myself.
> 
> I was pretty clueless before I joined and hadn't heard any of the terms (bbw, fa etc.). Dims is also the first and only board I've ever been a member off.



me too susie. only forum i ever joined and stayed and participated in. ive been here, what, 9 months or so now?! wow! and i love it. and i always will love it!

i joined because i wanted to find out about bbw modelling. but if im honest, also to prove to myself that my boyfriend was no fluke and that guys actually do find me attractive. and thats just being honest.

love the fact that i can talk to other fat girls about clothes and make up without feeling excluded like i do with my (lovely but) thin friends.

love the fact that anything goes, you can talk about family issues, sex, clothes, fat issues, music. its just great.


----------



## TraciJo67

LisaInNC said:


> Are we talking homemade (by this, I dont mean you opened the can at home) chicken n' dumplings?



Picky, picky. Maybe it's where I live, but I don't think I've ever been introduced to chicken 'n dumplings in a can. At least, not properly 

Yes, I made them myself. Yesterday. And if the excess salt don't kill ya ... they are some mighty fine eating, if I do say so myself (and I do).


----------



## Waxwing

Thread now officially clusterfuck. My jaw is on the floor that it's still open.


----------



## Tooz

Waxwing said:


> Because as much as we may dislike a private conversation, it's still a private conversation.



Oh God, qft qft!
This is exactly it.


----------



## bexy

i totally just had to google the word clusterfuck. it is now forever in my vocab!

*CLUSTERFUCK *
A combination of things going extremely wrong in a short period of time within the same general activity -- caused by stupidity and/or ineptitude.


----------



## TraciJo67

Waxwing said:


> Because as much as we may dislike a private conversation, it's still a private conversation.



This is an important question to me, as well. But if private conversations cannot be monitored by moderators, and chat ops cannot see them, then how did this conversation become public? Apparently, the remarks were forwarded to someone ... and by one of the parties who made them. To me, that means there is no privacy issue. Unless I'm mistaken about how they got out ... and I don't think that I am.


----------



## butch

Waxwing said:


> Because as much as we may dislike a private conversation, it's still a private conversation.



Unless they got some sort of assurance from the person they inadvertantly sent the PMs to, it isn't legally a private conversation, is it? But, as I said, I honestly don't know what one has to do to get banned for a week, let alone forever, so it would be nice to know those parameters.


----------



## Waxwing

bexylicious said:


> i totally just had to google the word clusterfuck. it is now forever in my vocab!
> 
> *CLUSTERFUCK *
> A combination of things going extremely wrong in a short period of time within the same general activity -- caused by stupidity and/or ineptitude.



It truly is one of the better words EVER. I don't get to use it often enough.

And I meant no insinuation of stupidity on anyone's part. That isn't what I meant. But still this thread is the badness.


----------



## LillyBBBW

bexylicious said:


> any kind person please enlighten me as to what the hell is going on? please??



I'm not in the loop either Bex. I will say though that the general environment around here has been pretty hostile of late. I've had to defend myself as a fat woman far more often than I feel should be necessary here. The incidences have been high enough that one of my favorite posters has quietly left. Based on this alone I can thoroughly understand where Saucy is coming from even without being in the so called 'loop' of whatever knowledge everyoen is in posession of. Back in the olden days when people armed with the Surgeon General's warning were argumentatively anti fat on a consistent basis they were deleted and banned. I will dare say that the two people in question have not been the only players in this attitude which seems to have become more and more pervasive of late.


----------



## bexy

Waxwing said:


> It truly is one of the better words EVER. I don't get to use it often enough.
> 
> And I meant no insinuation of stupidity on anyone's part. That isn't what I meant. But still this thread is the badness.



ooh no sorry thats not what i meant! that was the urban dictionary's fault


----------



## Waxwing

bexylicious said:


> ooh no sorry thats not what i meant! that was the urban dictionary's fault



Oh I know!


----------



## LisaInNC

Red said:


> WTF...seriously, what the fuck? I have no idea what this thread is about but that choice of words? Have a little think about who you're going to offend before you say ignorant remarks like that next time.



Well the people I intended to offend were not the ones you apparently think I offended. I was not speaking about the mentally disabled in a negative fashion. As someone who volunteers at the local special olympics, I can assure you, those kids are not stupid. While I am not sure why I am justifying myself to YOU..what I meant by that statement was, the people in question obviously need to pick on people they THINK are beneath them in order to boost their own self esteem.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

TraciJo67 said:


> This is an important question to me, as well. But if private conversations cannot be monitored by moderators, and chat ops cannot see them, then how did this conversation become public? Apparently, the remarks were forwarded to someone ... and by one of the parties who made them. To me, that means there is no privacy issue. Unless I'm mistaken about how they got out ... and I don't think that I am.




That's my whole problem with the "privacy issue". It was a PM sent to another party. Apparently that party chose to share. Your PM = Your Choice to Share, IMHO. 
Having such a harsh convo......that *I* sure as fuck wouldn't have wanted to "get out" if it was me that said them , I would have been more careful in my malicious words about others and made sure as shit I sent them to the intended party. I have had a few convos here and in chat privately that I would have not wanted to get out to others- not because they were malicious but because....they were PRIVATE. It's my responsibility to ensure my words go to the correct party...and if they don't, that's definitely MY mistake. 
That being said, I don't see how shared PMs warrant banning...it didn't occur on the open board. 
Why ban them? I think all this is so much more than banning....


----------



## Red

LisaInNC said:


> Well the people I intended to offend were not the ones you apparently think I offended. I was not speaking about the mentally disabled in a negative fashion. As someone who volunteers at the local special olympics, I can assure you, those kids are not stupid. While I am not sure why I am justifying myself to YOU..what I meant by that statement was, the people in question obviously need to pick on people they THINK are beneath them in order to boost their own self esteem.



Well you offended me, and I guess you are trying to justify yourself because it works towards making you feel better.

One of the goals of the Special Olympics is to, 'Change Attitudes, Change the World', pity is not the best place to start.


----------



## LisaInNC

Red said:


> Well you offended me, and I guess you are trying to justify yourself because it works towards making you feel better.
> 
> One of the goals of the Special Olympics is to, 'Change Attitudes, Change the World. Pity is not the best place to start.



I dont recall saying anything about pitying those kids....but yeah ok..be mad..let it out..


----------



## Waxwing

Oh my god, kids.

What Lisa meant was that sometimes people will pick on those whom THEY PERCEIVE as being "lesser" in some way, in order to make themselves feel better. She did NOT say that entrants into the Special Olympics were stupid; it is a valid point that people sometimes view them as such, *erroneously*.


----------



## LisaInNC

Waxwing said:


> Oh my god, kids.
> 
> What Lisa meant was that sometimes people will pick on those whom THEY PERCEIVE as being "lesser" in some way, in order to make themselves feel better. She did NOT say that entrants into the Special Olympics were stupid; it is a valid point that people sometimes view them as such, *erroneously*.



THANK YOU!!


----------



## saucywench

Thank you, Tina. *sigh*

I have spent the past hour (edit: it has taken me two hours alone to type this, for a total of three hours), upon awakening, responding to someone who PMed me last night to apologize, in case some or all of my post was directed at them. It wasn't. I'm going to copy part of my response to save myself a few keystrokes:

_I went to bed immediately after my post of last night. When I left my house yesterday, I went to my mom's because (1) it's something I do routinely on the weekend anyway and (2) I knew that I wouldn't transfer my anger to her and that being in her presence would have a calming effect on me. She is 81 and is not in good health. We discussed a number of things, such as her funeral arrangements and child sexual abuse: hers, mine, the degree that this exists in our world and has for eons. I broke down telling her my story of working down the hall from the Commission on Abuse several years ago. I happened to pass by our shared conference room one day and saw one of the counselors sitting on the table with her head bent. I went in to see if she was alright--turns out she had her head bowed, trying to read the remote for the tv/vcr player. She was reviewing a training tape for emergency room healthcare workers and law enforcement officers on how to spot and identify child abuse. She allowed me to view segments of it. What I saw was horrifying and made a tremendous impact on me. It showed children with cigarette burns over most of their body...young female children with rampantly progressive and untreated sexually transmitted diseases...a child whose rectum was permanently enlarged and gaping open due to repeated acts of sodomy. I broke down while relaying this story to my mother. She soothingly told me to go ahead and cry and let it all out._

_So, as you can see, my evening was very draining, emotionally. I came home and, as I said, immediately wrote down my feelings of anger. That took two hours. After I made that post I went immediately to bed. Having just awoken this morning, *I still have yet to read the big middle of the responses in my thread. I've only read the few that followed my post of last night, along with the initial few I read yesterday afternoon, so I have no idea what all has transpired.* I'm going to respond to Tina and Stan and then, once I've downed another cup of coffee, I will go back and read what this hubbub is all about._

See bolded. That is still the case, even as I press the Submit button. My initial anger--just as what prompted me to make the original post--stems from generalized feelings. They point to no one specifically.

You know, truth be told, there are very few people here with whom I feel a personal affinity. I don't mean that in a negative way; it's just that, by and large, I think perhaps that's how it should be. Yes, this is a community, albeit an online one, but far too many people treat it as though it were their lifeblood. I myself have developed a number of friendships and acquaintances through Dimensions over the years. I value those relationships. They're important. They matter. In that sense, to the degree that they impact my "real life" in a positive way, I am grateful for this community having provided me that. Also, in viewing this community as a whole, I am grateful to all of those who are here in the spirit for which it was intended. You may be an oldtimer, a lurker, an occasional poster, or a newbie. I may know you and I may not. My point is to comment on some of the more unsavory behavioral aspects behind some posts that are made--and again, in case I haven't emphasized this ENOUGH--this is a *general *feeling, and one that spans nearly a decade of my involvement here. This general feeling has evolved over time, after reading a collective number of posts that simply appall me. The content and topic is irrelevant--it's the pathology behind what drives such posts. Unless a specific post evokes a visceral response in me at that moment, my tendency is to not respond at all. But that certainly does not mean it doesn't affect me. The end result is that these feelings and impressions accumulate over a time, until something is said that compels me to address it--IN A GENERAL SENSE. If my comments cause anyone to squirm, perhaps there's a valid reason for that discomfort. If so, maybe some self-examination is in order. Regardless, how people take my words is not my issue or my responsibility.

As an aside, there's one interesting thing to note about the difference between chat and the forums. In chat (at least the old chat, I've not been able to get into FlashChat), the text is streaming. Although I'm older than most chatters, I do enjoy some of the more humorous aspects to chat. My main reason for enjoying chat, though, is the opportunity to engage in the sometimes meaningful and intelligent discussion that can sometimes (although, to me, not often enough) arise. There's also a lot of immature behavior and simply generational exchanges which have no relevance to me; but that's OK, I realize that I'm "odd man out" due to my age, and take that into consideration. The good thing about chat, versus the boards, is that, because it is streaming text--once something is uttered, in a few moments it disappears off the page. During those rare occasions that meaningful conversations take place, I often wish there were a way to preserve and share those conversations with others--a lot of good stuff has been brought up in chat over the years. By contrast, on the forums--whatever one types, good or bad, a permanent record remains. After 15 minutes (or whatever the time frame is), you can't even go back and remove something foolish or hateful that you may have said. It seems that far too many people are not mindful of this--maybe they simply do not care, I don't know--but it really should be something to consider before one presses Submit.

Stan, I appreciate your apology, but there's no need--nothing was directed at you, in fact, I don't even know if I made it to your post (nor the person who PMed me's post) before I left yesterday. Cute comment about the comma, I'm always appreciative when an error is pointed out (assuming it's correct ), as that helps me be mindful not to do it again. That's how I've learned a lot of grammar rules, such as one professor pointing out to me that I used it's (it is, versus simply its) incorrectly...or an online writer friend who educated me in the distinction between the word _anxious_ (a word I've noticed even news reporters incorrectly use) and the word _eager_. I'll send you a PM later.

Tina, I had something else to say about the Buddha bit, but I'm tired again, already. Maybe it'll come to me later. As I mentioned at the top of my post, I haven't even read the bulk of the comments--only the engine and caboose, as it were. At present, I don't even know that I have the energy to revisit the thread, or anywhere else on the forums, for that matter--maybe later. Thanks again.



Tina said:


> Saucy, I totally get where you're coming from. I have stayed out of this, but I think you should know that it just so happens that your post coincided with something very nasty and fat-hating -- and really, really disappointing -- that came to the forefront here. When I say "here" I don't necessarily mean on the board, but that's where it has been playing out, inevitably, simply because it was so nasty and ridiculous. So... timing, I guess. What you wrote fit pretty perfectly with many of the feelings that have been brewing, so there you go. Just one of those synergy kinda thangs. Please don't take it personally, Cin.
> 
> Oddly, sometimes boards are self-cleansing. There's a Buddhist thought regarding turning poison into medicine. Maybe something like that can happen here, I hope. [/mod]


----------



## Waxwing

> Regardless, how people take my words is not my issue or my responsibility.



This doesn't seem fair given the subject of this whole debate.


----------



## Red

Waxwing said:


> Oh my god, kids.
> 
> What Lisa meant was that sometimes people will pick on those whom THEY PERCEIVE as being "lesser" in some way, in order to make themselves feel better. She did NOT say that entrants into the Special Olympics were stupid; it is a valid point that people sometimes view them as such, *erroneously*.



Waxy, I was offended so chose to call Lisa out on it, just as I am sure you would if someone had offended you.

IMO- they were a bad choice of words.


----------



## Waxwing

Red said:


> Waxy, I was offended so chose to call Lisa out on it, just as I am sure you would if someone had offended you.
> 
> IMO- they were a bad choice of words.



No, I know. I didn't mean to respond poopily. I'm just all upset over this entire thread.

I respect the calling out; just wanted to clarify that I don't think she meant it in a disrespectful way.

Man, this whole thread sort of underlines the innate problem with internet communication. We can't SEE each other or hear each other. It's so easy to not know how someone means something. There's no non-verbal cues.

Sorry if I seemed grouchy. My tone was super condescending, and I regret it. I'm sorry, Red.


----------



## AnnMarie

I'd just like to thank the person who finally had the thought to actually share this PM (which by now pretty much everyone has seen) with me. 

While I understand it was originally a PM, it was forwarded out, because someone found it funny enough to "share", and then it wasn't seen as funny... and we're here. 

I'm glad to read true colors. And that's really all I have to say about it. I've certainly learned a lesson about wolves in sheep's clothing, and I'm glad for anything I learn. If this is the level you're operating on, then better to know that.


----------



## Red

Waxwing said:


> No, I know. I didn't mean to respond poopily. I'm just all upset over this entire thread.
> 
> I respect the calling out; just wanted to clarify that I don't think she meant it in a disrespectful way.
> 
> Man, this whole thread sort of underlines the innate problem with internet communication. We can't SEE each other or hear each other. It's so easy to not know how someone means something. There's no non-verbal cues.
> 
> Sorry if I seemed grouchy.



No worries Waxy, you don't seem grouchy, just frustrated as are many of the other readers of this thread. I still don't fully understand the whole kerfuffle so I have chosen not to comment on it. Like you said though without the emotional, vocal connotation and body language of 'real-time' conversation it can all get a bit messy.


----------



## Eclectic_Girl

Waxwing said:


> Because as much as we may dislike a private conversation, it's still a private conversation.





TraciJo67 said:


> This is an important question to me, as well. But if private conversations cannot be monitored by moderators, and chat ops cannot see them, then how did this conversation become public? Apparently, the remarks were forwarded to someone ... and by one of the parties who made them. To me, that means there is no privacy issue. Unless I'm mistaken about how they got out ... and I don't think that I am.





butch said:


> Unless they got some sort of assurance from the person they inadvertantly sent the PMs to, it isn't legally a private conversation, is it? But, as I said, I honestly don't know what one has to do to get banned for a week, let alone forever, so it would be nice to know those parameters.



Yes, it's not exactly private anymore, is it. Kind of ironic. Kind of like a couple of thin chicks using the resources created for fat people and those who love us to connect in order to bond with each other over their fatphobia.

Agree with AM that it's better to know what kind of people you're dealing with. But it's kind of like reading a middle school slam book - you know who's spreading poison, but you also feel less safe in a place that you should feel safe in. It hurts, like the mean girls are picking on us all over again, and for the same reasons they did back then. And then you kind of have to wonder who they were sending the PMs around to, who they thought were on their fat-hating side. It calls the intentions of other "allies" into question - who else is laughing at the fatties behind their backs and smiling to their faces?

That kind of poison is not welcome here.


----------



## Risible

I've seen The Transcript. The way it began seemed - practiced. As if these two have been down this road - ripping on fat women - before.

I have to say, I'd rather deal with trolls than what LoveBHMs and Love Dubh represent. At least with a troll, you know what ya got, and they can be banned.

Rather than direct fat women to the WLS board, how about we direct these two to the door?


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Just an FYI since there's a lot of speculation on how this got out - it's my understanding that the PM was _inadvertently _forwarded to someone else, not intentionally. That another PM was meant to be forwarded, and this one was forwarded instead. The person who received it decided it should be known what kind of people these two are, and for that, I sincerely thank her.


----------



## Tooz

I really like how a lot of people in this thread are acting like they've never said any rude or mean-spirited things towards anyone else from this community.

I could point out things others have done (intentionally or not) that have hurt others' feelings, too. I'll admit I have said some pretty mean stuff about others in private settings. Hell, we should be real about this, right?

There is a ton of shit-talking that happens in this community. The only difference is this session got out.


----------



## TearInYourHand

Tooz said:


> There is a ton of shit-talking that happens in this community. The only difference is this session got out.



Another difference is that this particular session is about fat bigotry. One of the only things that is universally not cool at Dims. That's worth noting.


----------



## Tooz

TearInYourHand said:


> Another difference is that this particular session is about fat bigotry. One of the only things that is universally not cool at Dims. That's worth noting.



That's true, but there are people who AREN'T skinny who STILL use weight as a part of their shit-talking.

I understand the magnitude of their faux-pas, but...I really don't see this as appropriate.


----------



## Jazz Man

Waxwing said:


> I was depressed about this thread and ate them all. I'm sorry.



Well! Someone sure does get around...


----------



## Sugar

Tooz said:


> That's true, but there are people who AREN'T skinny who STILL use weight as a part of their shit-talking.
> 
> I understand the magnitude of their faux-pas, but...I really don't see this as appropriate.




What is appropriate in this case?


----------



## Tooz

Lucky said:


> What is appropriate in this case?



Nothing, because it was initially a private message. If you wanna stop talking to someone, fine. If they lose friends from it, that's one thing.


This open fire bullshit is too far, though.


----------



## Sugar

Tooz said:


> Nothing, because it was initially a private message. If you wanna stop talking to someone, fine. If they lose friends from it, that's one thing.
> 
> 
> This open fire bullshit is too far, though.



But they shared it...like putting trash on the curb. Once it hits the curb it's public domain.

Shouldn't they lose the privilege of being here around all of these wonderful super fat people who don't want to be directed to the WLS board?


----------



## Tooz

Lucky said:


> But they shared it...like putting trash on the curb. Once it hits the curb it's public domain.
> 
> Shouldn't they lose the privilege of being here around all of these wonderful super fat people who don't want to be directed to the WLS board?



Yes, it was made public, but it was INITIALLY INTENDED TO BE PRIVATE. I REALLY do not see why that is so hard to understand. Can we look past what was said and just look at the situation? There is a pretty big difference between a PRIVATE thing ripping people apart that got leaked and a PUBLIC ripping that is...public.

If you don't like it, i g n o r e t h e m.


Seriously. I understand what Dims is and everything, but even this thread seems to go against that.


----------



## TearInYourHand

Yeah, I totally see the argument that a private conversation is a private conversation, no matter how much we don't agree or like it. However, I think that when you share a private conversation, unintentionally or not, it becomes the domain of the person who heard it to repeat it as they want.

That's how it works legally, that's how it works 'in real life', and I think that's how it should work here. That's why most people are pretty careful how and to whom they send emails, especially in the workplace. Once something gets out, it is fair game and impossible to take back.

Funny how 2 people have been noticably absent from this thread. I guess they really cannot have much to say for themselves. LoveBHMs? lovedubh? What do you think is appropriate?


----------



## Aliena

I too want to thank the person who brought the PM out, because it *IS* important to know (like Risible pointed out) who's smiling to our face while bashing who we are and what we are (being here for *fat acceptance*) behind our backs. 

While I'm pro-acceptance, I don't think there should be any tolerance of wolves in sheep clothing; it breaks down the very system of purpose here. (which for me is what is noted in my original post in this thread)

I'd like to be comfortable in knowing the person I'm being friendly with is a genuine (as far as internet friendships go) and is truly a person aiming for acceptanc among the participants here. 
It disturbs me to think this might not be the case. I truly hope more participants here, other than the outspoken ones, (whom I admire their courage to speak up) can see the importance of keeping Dimension's sanctity upheld. 

PM's should be kept private, no doubt, but if someone is persistant in spreading their word of hate about in hopes of garnering a laugh, form allies to bash fatties, or lift their low-esteem higher then in my opinion the message is no longer private. (good thing too, don't ya think?)


One thing which shouldn't be accepted here is hate, in any form, but especially starting with hate of who and what we are. 
It defeats Dimensions purpose as I see it.


----------



## Tooz

Jesus, do you actually BLAME them from remaining quiet?

If it were me, I'd be nowhere near this steaming pile of shit.


----------



## TearInYourHand

Tooz said:


> Jesus, do you actually BLAME them from remaining quiet?
> 
> If it were me, I'd be nowhere near this steaming pile of shit.



No, of course I don't blame them. I'm just super pissed off and hurt, and sometimes people say things that are a bit irrational when that's the case.


----------



## bexy

i think im the only person not to have seen this pm and i would like to if only to see if it is as bad as people make out. 
the reason being i recently got a lovely compliment from one of the people in question and i would like to be able to decide for myself if it was said out of sincerity, pity or a piss take.


----------



## Waxwing

bexylicious said:


> i think im the only person not to have seen this pm and i would like to if only to see if it is as bad as people make out.



I haven't seen it, nor do I wish to.


----------



## ThikJerseyChik

Waxwing said:


> I haven't seen it, nor do I wish to.



Ditto. Why add insult to injury...I think it's way overdue to let this beast die...


----------



## Waxwing

ThikJerseyChik said:


> Ditto. Why add insult to injury...I think it's way overdue to let this beast die...



QFT.

And Tooz is right-- as shitty as it may have been, it was intended to be private. If you were offended, stop being friends with the perps and call them on their shit one on one. It is inappropriate and unproductive to continue this public castigation.


----------



## Aliena

Tooz said:


> Jesus, do you actually BLAME them from remaining quiet?
> 
> If it were me, I'd be nowhere near this steaming pile of shit.



 Yeah shame has a way of doing that to people, especially when they're wrong with what they did. 
This goes beyond an "ignore" button. I fail to understand why you can't see it. 

In Saucey's OP, she asked why we're here and if this is why these two are here then let's face it, they *DON'T* belong here. 

And as far as private messages are concerned, it's no longer private when you start hitting the buttons to spread the "word" around. I fail to understand why you fail to see that. 

Thank God their message made it to a participant who is brave enough to call them on it; as they should be.


----------



## Tooz

Aliena said:


> Yeah shame has a way of doing that to people, especially when they're wrong with what they did.
> This goes beyond an "ignore" button. I fail to understand why you can't see it.
> 
> In Saucey's OP, she asked why we're here and if this is why these two are here then let's face it, they *DON'T* belong here.
> 
> And as far as private messages are concerned, it's no longer private when you start hitting the buttons to spread the "word" around. I fail to understand why you fail to see that.
> 
> Thank God their message made it to a participant who is brave enough to call them on it; as they should be.



People who feel this way and are acting this way are no better than the two who sent those fated PMs.

LoveBHMS belongs here, I can say. Look at her user name. Technically she belongs here because she loves fat guys.

Sorry babe, but your whole "the ends justify the means!" thing doesn't fly with me. I'm pretty sure if it was a different subject, or if you were thin, you probably wouldn't care as much.

Oh, yes, I sure did just say that. This is getting so ridiculous and so out of hand, though, that I'm probably going to duck out of this soon because people aren't hearing me (or Waxwing for that matter)

EDIT: btw your "humble" opinion isn't coming across as very humble. Might wanna change that to "imo."



Aaaaaand I'm done here.


----------



## NancyGirl74

I agree with everyone who says that their privacy was invaded....HOWEVER, its out and its stinkin' up the joint. Lets deal with the garbage. 

It's not for me or anyone else to say who gets to boot...but if you were to ask my opinion I'd say at the very least they shouldn't be welcome into private areas. Again, that is just my opinion. 

What bothers me about this situation is not that they spoke ill of fat people (I'm used to that by society in general) but they pissed all over my home and family, the very home and family they claimed to be members of. It also bothers me that one of these women showed her face in at an event some of my closest family members had very worked hard to make safe, fun, and accepting. You know what..."bothers" is too mild of a word. This *PISSES* me off. That person just abused the very people she claimed to care about. I'm a fairly mild person and I let a lot roll off my back most of the time but when you mess with my family you have just made an enemy of me. 

The level of _ugly_ in this situation goes waaay beyond just meanness or carelessness. Frankly, it makes me suspicious. How many other "allies", "friends", and "honorary fat girls" are really just here gawking to boost their own fragile egos? Sadly, my fear is that many are and I don't know how to get rid of that fear and distrust now that its been slapped in our faces.


----------



## Waxwing

NancyGirl74 said:


> How many other "allies", "friends", and "honorary fat girls" are really just here gawking to boost their own fragile egos? Sadly, my fear is that many are and I don't know how to get rid of that fear and distrust now that its been slapped in our faces.



Is this the consensus? Does everyone feel this way? 

Lets get it out in the open now so that those of us who are about to be hit with suspicion can leave the community now.


----------



## NancyGirl74

Waxwing said:


> Is this the consensus? Does everyone feel this way?
> 
> Lets get it out in the open now so that those of us who are about to be hit with suspicion can leave the community now.




I was only speaking for myself.


----------



## Waxwing

NancyGirl74 said:


> I was only speaking for myself.



I know, but my question still stands. I want to know how other people feel about this, too.


----------



## Aliena

Tooz said:


> People who feel this way and are acting this way are no better than the two who sent those fated PMs.



I disagree individuals with differing opinions of *THEIR* feelings are in essence no *better* than the two in question. 
People here are hurt, (justifiably so) because they trusted individuals whom they considered friends. It's not an act, it's an expression of how they're feeling about the incident in question. 



Tooz said:


> LoveBHMS belongs here, I can say. Look at her user name. Technically she belongs here because she loves fat guys.



My user name at NAAFA used to be Dragon Lady. I assure you it doesn't mean I am or was a dragon lady. Surely you realize names do not define a person. 



Tooz said:


> Sorry babe, but your whole "the ends justify the means!" thing doesn't fly with me. I'm pretty sure if it was a different subject, or if you were thin, you probably wouldn't care as much.



I'm not "babe", I'm DeAnne, please address me as that or MicDee. Again, I disagree the message was any longer private. They wanted the word to get out, well it got out, thus *PUBLIC DOMAIN!!* Is it the person's fault who called them on it didn't find it so funny, thus brought it into question? 



Tooz said:


> Oh, yes, I sure did just say that. This is getting so ridiculous and so out of hand, though, that I'm probably going to duck out of this soon because people aren't hearing me (or Waxwing for that matter)



I do *hear* you and Waxwing for that matter, but I just disagree with you completely. I also don't appreciate how your words carry a tone of holier-than-thou and those who don't agree with you are being "ridiculous". It probably is best you "duck out", because you obviously do not have the maturity to:
a)respect other's opinions even if at opposite ends of perspective 

b) you are unable to express yourself without a narrative of insult and sarcasm. 



Tooz said:


> EDIT: btw your "humble" opinion isn't coming across as very humble. Might wanna change that to "imo."
> Aaaaaand I'm done here.





My opinion IS humble, because *I* don't assume everyone would or should put weight into it.


----------



## bexy

i have now seen the pm.

i choose to accept that lovebhms compliment to me was sincere and i personally think this whole issue should be dropped. everyone is entitled to their own opinions. these opinions have hurt people but were intended to stay private and are not saying anything about anyones personality. just about physical attributes they find less attractive or a turn off. had they been putting these likes and dislikes into the public forum it would have been worded differently but they thought it was private.

also it is very difficult with the internet to understand the tone in which comments should be taken. that needs to be remembered.

i like skinny boys. thats my preference. however if it gets to the point you can see ribs, chestbones etc thats TOO skinny and turns me off. i see what love dubh and lovebhms have said as being no different, all be it worded badly and received offensively.

just my opinion. everyone is entitled to have one.


----------



## Tooz

Closing statement:

#1: No, it's stilly to think names define someone, but in this case it does show that LoveBHMS does in fact love BHMs, therefore...I'll let you make that connection.
#2: Oh, yes, terribly my bad for not knowing your name, hun. I'll never forgive myself. By that I mean I won't freak out if someone calls me babe, honey, or any other term.

Tired of reading what people can only be doing and saying with glee.
Peace.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Waxwing said:


> Is this the consensus? Does everyone feel this way?
> 
> Lets get it out in the open now so that those of us who are about to be hit with suspicion can leave the community now.




No sweetie it is not how I feel at all and I suspect others do not as well. I think you are awesome as do I think that of a lot of posters here - fat or thin.

But let me just say this about the privacy thing. If your spouse cheats on you and you find out by going into their email and reading their private messages, does it make the cheating less hurtful because you found out by invading their privacy? And do you say nothing because it was a private email and YOU were wrong for reading it?

This place, like it or not, is a family. We don't all get along but when push comes to shove we stick up for each other. What was said, was said by 2 people who have been accepted into this family. That's why it hurts so much. Do you realize how many times in real life this crap happens to fat people? You think someone is a friend and by accident you find out they have said some pretty insulting and hurtful things about your weight? It has happened to me more times than I can count.

This was a betrayal of faith put in these 2 women that what they publicly said was how they privately felt. Don't think for a minute that some of the fat women here have not been crushed by this - they have been. There are so many fragile souls here who come here because it feels safe, but now, thanks to these 2 this safe place that has cultivated that feeling for 20 some years - isn't safe anymore.

In a few short snotty emails these 2 women may have destroyed a community that many of us depend on. And they haven't even said they are sorry.

So, no I have no hard feelings toward you Waxy, but you have to give us fat girls time to feel safe again here.


----------



## Aliena

I've just seen and read the PM in question. There is not any hasty generalizations or circumstantial evidence here. What this is is several things:

1)The two in question were abusive to the premise of Dimensions and subsequent participants here. 

2)The point is Missing of what is evidentally offensive in the said private-to-public messages. 

3)Number 2-reason is begging the question as to the inadequacy of support of certain participants by ignoring a key note to what makes this whole debacle offensive.


Now I must step back and get ready for my graduation, because I am so livid to what I've just read I have to step away to calm my anger, so as not to be in a bad mood to what is a happy day for me.


----------



## NancyGirl74

I have given out too much rep in the past 24 hours...but Sandie and Aliena consider yourselves smacked all over with rep.


----------



## bexy

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> In a few short snotty emails these 2 women may have destroyed a community that many of us depend on. And they haven't even said they are sorry.



sandie, i very rarely disagree with you but no one should feel they have to say sorry for a preference or opinion. any apology received would not be a sincere one as no ones opinion changes over night. they dont like cankles. thats up to them. 
i get that people are upset, people think they have had their trust broken etc. but its not as if they have posted comments saying how much they love cankles and then contradicted them in this pm.

just because you are an FA or FFA, just because you support fat acceptance, doesnt mean you have to find every fat person or every fat attribute attractive.

but i do hope you can carry on to feel safe and appreciated here. its a home for us all.


----------



## Waxwing

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> No sweetie it is not how I feel at all and I suspect others do not as well. I think you are awesome as do I think that of a lot of posters here - fat or thin.



I'm sorry if what I said came across as a whiny "reassure me!" thing, but thank you.  I didn't mean it as fishing for love; I really do wonder sometimes if the balance is heavier toward the 'just making people uncomfortable' side or the 'appreciated member of the community' side.



> So, no I have no hard feelings toward you Waxy, but you have to give us fat girls time to feel safe again here.



That's totally valid. 

I'm someone who is desperately afraid of being talked about behind my back. It haunts me. If I found out that someone had done it to me, it would take a long time before I could trust anyone again. I accept that talking about people is human nature, but I can't imagine how I'd feel if I heard about it.

I know that people probably hate some things about the way I look. I just don't want to know about it.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

It wasn't just about cankles, that's what some here aren't getting. This is about a betrayal. Fat people (for the most part) don't trust easily. It comes from years of abuse - like this and worse.

As for me? I couldn't care less what these women think or say about me or my fat ass. But they hurt people I care about. In cases like that, I'm like a Lioness defending her cubs. I'm not going anywhere. This is MY community. They need to leave. 




bexylicious said:


> sandie, i very rarely disagree with you but no one should feel they have to say sorry for a preference or opinion. any apology received would not be a sincere one as no ones opinion changes over night. they dont like cankles. thats up to them.
> i get that people are upset, people think they have had their trust broken etc. but its not as if they have posted comments saying how much they love cankles and then contradicted them in this pm.
> 
> just because you are an FA or FFA, just because you support fat acceptance, doesnt mean you have to find every fat person or every fat attribute attractive.
> 
> but i do hope you can carry on to feel safe and appreciated here. its a home for us all.


----------



## NancyGirl74

Bexy, I agree with you to an extent but I'd like to use your example from a previous post for a moment, if I may. You said that you like thinner guys but if you were to see ribs or bones you would not find it appealing. That's fine. However, if you were to have a long conversation with your good pal Molly using degrading and demeaning terms and then what was said got back to your skinny friend would you honestly be surprised that he was hurt and angry? Do people have the right to their private opinions even if they are hurtful? Yes! But if those opinions get out even by accident do you really think we should all just be ok with things and brush it off because it wasn't meant to be heard? That goes again human nature. If its heard and its hurtful darn tootin' people are going to react. To expect anything different is perhaps asking too much of those who's feelings are now sore from what was said.


----------



## fatboy1004

I haven't read this stuff myself, but I'll say this for those two: I've spent a lot off time on the BHM/FFA board, and they like fat guys. They belong.

I'll say something else that some of you may wish to consider. Everyone says catty shit behind other people's backs _every day_. I'm not saying that makes it a nice thing to do, just stating a fact of life. And by everyone, I mean you, dear reader, do it too. 

Proof of this fact can probably be found in everyone's PM box _right now_. In fact, judging by the offensive vitriol I've seen printed publicly here in this thread, and in many others on other boards here in the past, I'm pretty sure the stuff that has been written privately would make my head explode. But, like most sane people, I don't spend a lot of time worrying about what people may or may not be saying about me -- or people like me -- behind my back. 

At any rate, for all of those of you who are so angry about what happened in a conversation that was meant to remain private, perhaps you might consider posting your last 50 PM's for everyone to read. Then we can all review _your_ messages for appropriate content and tone.


----------



## Santaclear

NancyGirl74 said:


> To expect anything different is perhaps asking too much of those who's feelings are now sore from what was said.



A lot of people's cankles are now sore from much of what was said.


----------



## bexy

NancyGirl74 said:


> Bexy, I agree with you to an extent but I'd like to use your example from a previous post for a moment, if I may. You said that you like thinner guys but if you were to see ribs or bones you would not find it appealing. That's fine. However, if you were to have a long conversation with your good pal Molly using degrading and demeaning terms and then what was said got back to your skinny friend would you honestly be surprised that he was hurt and angry? Do people have the right to their private opinions even if they are hurtful? Yes! But if those opinions get out even by accident do you really think we should all just be ok with things and brush it off because it wasn't meant to be heard? That goes again human nature. If its heard and its hurtful darn tootin' people are going to react. To expect anything different is perhaps asking too much of those who's feelings are now sore from what was said.



hey nancy.

i get what you are saying. i totally understand people are upset. 

i just think the best thing to do is for everyone to make their own decision and judgement on the issue and if they choose to ignore lovedubh and lovebhms from here on in thats up to them, if they choose to still communicate with them so be it, if theyre not offended fine. but people shouldnt call for apologies or bans and no one should be sorry for having a preference, no matter how hurtful it may be deemed to be.
this pm should have stayed private.


----------



## SocialbFly

What is sad is that two people who had established trust with members of this community trashed in private what they said they valued in public.

while i am not friends with either, i wont be either, i promise you, and that is my choice.


i get teased behind my back all the time based on the size of my ass, i wont have it where i am supposed to feel safe.

You ladies caused this, now step out, and fix it. 

You both know how.


----------



## Phatman1

bexylicious said:


> this pm should have stayed private.



This PM should have remained private but it did not and to a degree I believe they did not want it to remain private. With a PM you know who you are sending your message to and if they wanted it private they could have keep it private. 

I agree we all say thing we are ashamed of at some point and time but when caught, stand up and take your medicine and be big enough to accept what you created. These two seem to have slinked away and they need to accept what they have done.


----------



## bexy

Phatman1 said:


> This PM should have remained private but it did not and *to a degree I believe they did not want it to remain private.* With a PM you know who you are sending your message to and if they wanted it private they could have keep it private.



Why??


----------



## Tina

Okay, let's say that privacy was invaded. Does that situation change if the situation was that one of the people who wrote one side of that conversation sent it out to a third party herself? Didn't she invade her own privacy then? And what kind of claim to an invasion of privacy would one have then, if one has welcomed that invasion by bringing it on herself?

I, frankly, am not for banning. We do not ban for what people think. We do not ban for what people say privately. But personally, I feel that people knowing just how some feel is the best punishment, because what happens is that the person becomes publicly shunned and shamed, and IMO THAT is why nothing is being said by them, because they are, I think (or would hope, honestly) ashamed of what they have said about members of this forum, and by association anyone who looks like them, or whose bodies have the gall to collect fat in unapproved places. 

Will there be people who will still associate with them? I'm sure. Not many, though, I'd venture a guess. So banning is the quick and painless method, no?

I would totally agree with those who feel that privacy had been invaded, had one of them not been stupid enough to send out, to all and sundry it turns out, the real fat-hating comments that have lain below the surface of bright, shiny acceptance.

We all have made mistakes. I am one of the most flawed individuals I know. I have done things I am ashamed of. Thing is, I truly was, and am, ashamed enough to have given those people sincere apologies. Those apologies don't mean they need to forgive me -- apologies are not currency. It just means that I recognize what I have done wrong, feel ashamed, embarrassed, deeply apologetic, and will make sure it never happens again. Maire (who I am the most disappointed in, and feel so sad about) and Loves, what apolgies have we heard from you? What truly heartfelt regret? 

Sometimes, things happen in a community that are big enough to cause such commotion as this. Trying to stem the flow in a situation where people are rightly, and righteously, pissed off, hurt, shocked, etc, is futile. These things have to run their course, but I do still believe in turning poison into medicine.


----------



## Phatman1

bexylicious said:


> Why??



Why confussed? When you send a PM do you not know who you are sending it to???? If that is the case then someone knew they were not keeping it private between the two of them. That is why I say that.


----------



## mossystate

This was not about a ' preference '. The language used was all about...disgust. I do not think they should be ' made ' to apologize, as I think that would be hollow, and only for some weak satisfaction. If a feeling is that strong, an apology would be all about damage control...who really wants that. I also think people should be allowed to feel how they feel...which includes the people who are part of the fallout.

To other people who are on the more slender side of things, I personally am not now all suspicious. When I was on the more slender side of things, I didn't rip fat people to shreds, so, I am sure there are others on this planet who know the difference between a personal preference..and feeling repulsed by someone who is different.

As for this being a black cloud hanging over this place..I don't feel that way, as there still are people who come here who are repulsed by fat people..some who call themselves fans of fat. So, I don't know, maybe chalk it up to individuals. 

For me, this was not about who was bashed, that's why I had said that I would hope that even less popular people would be stood up for, as this was about the reality of many folks on this planet thinking many of us ' should '...should do this...should do that..should maybe not be seen, until we fix what is fucking up the view for other people. Again..not..about....personal... preferences.

If nothing else...this is a great lesson to check where your messages are going...I have had to do that a few times...but, I _think_ I am safe in terms of not bashing huge groups in one swoop....*phew*...


----------



## Famouslastwords

I think now, more than ever, my signature is valid.


----------



## love dubh

What I wrote was absolutely conniving and disgusting. This is a fact. It was low attacking based on the physical - when the target was a perceived personality. 

However, what were the intentions of every single person along the chain that forward my messages to others? Wanted some friends in the pity party, wanted to inspire anger against us, wanted to out us for the dirty scoundrels we are? Did you have your e-"friends" feelings at heart when you freely sent these along? Obviously, I was only thinking of the amusing and painful when I wrote those words. What were you thinking?

I wrote crass things regarding the necessity of WLS, but the sentiment behind the hyperbole remains - that watching as someone complains on complications in one thread and posts of the unhealthy things they've engaged in in another thread - makes me less apt to believe that "health at any size" is what it's purported to mean. 

But no one needs me to believe in "Health at Any size," or fat acceptance.

I'm not a contributor to this board. I wanted to see subculture, I saw subculture, I liked/disliked, and I've hurt countless individuals.

My presence here is unnecessary. I've become less size acceptancy. So, I apologize for the nastiness and the slyness, not for my beliefs. What I can do now is not let such base, animal emotions tarnish existing and future relationships. Bye.


----------



## Tina

mossystate said:


> I do not think they should be ' made ' to apologize, as I think that would be hollow, and only for some weak satisfaction. If a feeling is that strong, an apology would be all about damage control...who really wants that. I also think people should be allowed to feel how they feel...which includes the people who are part of the fallout.
> 
> To other people who are on the more slender side of things, I personally am not now all suspicious. When I was on the more slender side of things, I didn't rip fat people to shreds, so, I am sure there are others on this planet who know the difference between a personal preference..and feeling repulsed by someone who is different.
> 
> As for this being a black cloud hanging over this place..I don't feel that way, as there still are people who come here who are repulsed by fat people..some who call themselves fans of fat. So, I don't know, maybe chalk it up to individuals.


I totally and completely agree, Mossy.


----------



## NancyGirl74

fatboy1004 said:


> Then we can all review _your_ messages for appropriate content and tone.



I would let you read mine but I've said some very nasty things about you and those like you. I shared my ugly thoughts with a select few who feel as I do while we played in your backyard and smiled in your face and ate the cookies you baked for us. I would never mean for any of my hatefulness to get back to you...but if it did, oops. My bad.


----------



## bexy

Phatman1 said:


> Why confussed? When you send a PM do you not know who you are sending it to???? If that is the case then someone knew they were not keeping it private between the two of them. That is why I say that.



but why would they want to NOT keep this private i mean?


----------



## Jane

I'm SO CONFUSED!!!


----------



## Ivy

It absolutely kills me how everyone is acting like they have never said something mean or snarky or downright horrible about someone else behind closed doors. I've done it before, I admit it. It's part of being human. No one can say they've never talked shit on someone else. It sucks that people's feelings get hurt, but it is part of life.

The PMs sent were meant to be just that, PRIVATE messages. I'm pretty sure if we were to go through anyone's PMs here we'd find some nasty messages that you never wanted anyone else to see. And if not in their PMs, then in their text messages or emails or whatever. Everyone here has said something mean about someone at some point in time. Maybe it wasn't as mean as what they said, maybe it was a whole lot meaner. Regardless, people do it. It sucks, but what are you gonna do? 

It saddens me that people are getting this worked up over something that someone said on the internet. I know that what happens online affects how you feel, but you have to remind yourself that the internet does not need to be that serious business. Step away and calm down and remind yourself of that.

Furthermore, LoveBHMS and I have been e-friends for over a year. Homegirl loves herself some fat men. And women. That is VERY clear to me. Just because she is attracted to fatties doesn't mean she has to love everything about them. I mean, I love chinese food more than anything but I HATE shirmp toast. The thought of it makes me want to puke. Does that mean I hate chinese food and should never be allowed to enjoy it?? I don't think so.


----------



## Aireman

The "Stuff" I miss and I was only gone for a day! 

I originally came here seeking help for my ex. She was my wife at the time and had gained a significant amount of weight and was so down on herself that I was looking for a positive veiw point to show her 'cause I was VERY happy with her size! And LORDY LORDY I felt I was saved! This place rocked! Thoughts and preferances I had and had thought taboo, strange, not NORMAL. Were not only accepted but praised here! I reveled in the growth of Kelligrl and Brooke. Juggs magazine was the only place previously that I could find women that I thought were attractive.

I also had always had a negitive self image due to the fact that I was a bit overweight all my life. I found that not only was that accepted here but, also celibrated!:doh: Damn! While I couldn't spend as much time as I wanted here, I have always been around. 

Yes, there are some people who take themselves way too seriously here and others that don't at all (You know who you are and I love it!) there has always been respect for the "big" girl. That must; to me; always remain paramount. 

It's great that the BHM side has grown over the years. The women and men that are there have been for the most part a partner in my self healing journey over my self image. Heck, I don't really quallify as a BHM over there. I'm pretty much just "chubby" as "I" see it but, I still get the occasional complement (Thank you GEF).

That being said. I have to go back to what I previously said. The respect part for the BBW's must be respected. None of what's here would be here if it wasn't for the ladies. Their willingness to share of themselves in pic's or more importantlly their words, stories and struggles to their own self acceptance in a world that still frowns and shakes their heads at what I consider to be beautiful!

Ladies, you are beautiful and I thank you for all you have been in my life even if you have never known the impact you have had.


----------



## bexy

mossystate said:


> This was not about a ' preference '. The language used was all about...disgust.



Hi mossy.

I think the underlying issue *is* about their preference. they dont like something. end of. its distasteful to them and they chose to talk about it together. 

the way it was worded, the language used is what has offended people. i dont believe its the subject matter of "the dislike like of cankles and or other fat attributes" that has people upset.

but very true what u say about pms. im a paranoid android now!


----------



## Sandie S-R

AnnMarie said:


> I'd just like to thank the person who finally had the thought to actually share this PM (which by now pretty much everyone has seen) with me.
> 
> While I understand it was originally a PM, it was forwarded out, because someone found it funny enough to "share", and then it wasn't seen as funny... and we're here.
> 
> I'm glad to read true colors. And that's really all I have to say about it. I've certainly learned a lesson about wolves in sheep's clothing, and I'm glad for anything I learn. If this is the level you're operating on, then better to know that.



AnnMarie, a very classy comment. But then you have always been a very classy person, in my opinion. And quite frankly I think you have the cutest feet and cankles on the planet. :wubu:



Eclectic_Girl said:


> Yes, it's not exactly private anymore, is it. Kind of ironic. Kind of like a couple of thin chicks using the resources created for fat people and those who love us to connect in order to bond with each other over their fatphobia.



A very astute observation, EG. And I think it really points to the heart of the matter.



Risible said:


> I've seen The Transcript. The way it began seemed - practiced. As if these two have been down this road - ripping on fat women - before...



Yes, indeed it did. Especialy if what EC said above is true, and I am guessing it likely is.



TearInYourHand said:


> ...Funny how 2 people have been noticably absent from this thread. I guess they really cannot have much to say for themselves. LoveBHMs? lovedubh? What do you think is appropriate?...



Yes, the elephant in living room. It would be appropriate to heard from them. I'm not holding my breath however.



NancyGirl74 said:


> The level of _ugly_ in this situation goes waaay beyond just meanness or carelessness. Frankly, it makes me suspicious. How many other "allies", "friends", and "honorary fat girls" are really just here gawking to boost their own fragile egos? Sadly, my fear is that many are and I don't know how to get rid of that fear and distrust now that its been slapped in our faces.



Nancy, I am so sorry that this has caused you to feel this way. Just sending you a hug.



Waxwing said:


> Is this the consensus? Does everyone feel this way?
> 
> Lets get it out in the open now so that those of us who are about to be hit with suspicion can leave the community now.



Waxy. This is not about you. You have done nothing wrong and are a supportive and kind member of this forum. It is directed at the 2 "Loves" only.




SocialbFly said:


> What is sad is that two people who had established trust with members of this community trashed in private what they said they valued in public.
> 
> while i am not friends with either, i wont be either, i promise you, and that is my choice.
> 
> i get teased behind my back all the time based on the size of my ass, i wont have it where i am supposed to feel safe.
> 
> You ladies caused this, now step out, and fix it.
> 
> You both know how.



There's a challenge if ever I heard one. LovesBHMs, LoveDubh, either of you care to step up to the plate here and do the right thing?

A massive apology is most certainly in order to this community in general. But first and foremost, you two "Loves" owe an apology to AnnMarie and BigBeautifulMe. And until that happens, I doubt that that anyone here will begin to get over what you have done.


----------



## bexy

Ivy said:


> It absolutely kills me how everyone is acting like they have never said something mean or snarky or downright horrible about someone else behind closed doors. I've done it before, I admit it. It's part of being human. No one can say they've never talked shit on someone else. It sucks that people's feelings get hurt, but it is part of life.
> 
> The PMs sent were meant to be just that, PRIVATE messages. I'm pretty sure if we were to go through anyone's PMs here we'd find some nasty messages that you never wanted anyone else to see. And if not in their PMs, then in their text messages or emails or whatever. Everyone here has said something mean about someone at some point in time. Maybe it wasn't as mean as what they said, maybe it was a whole lot meaner. Regardless, people do it. It sucks, but what are you gonna do?
> 
> It saddens me that people are getting this worked up over something that someone said on the internet. I know that what happens online affects how you feel, but you have to remind yourself that the internet does not need to be that serious business. Step away and calm down and remind yourself of that.
> 
> Furthermore, LoveBHMS and I have been e-friends for over a year. Homegirl loves herself some fat men. And women. That is VERY clear to me. Just because she is attracted to fatties doesn't mean she has to love everything about them. I mean, I love chinese food more than anything but I HATE shirmp toast. The thought of it makes me want to puke. Does that mean I hate chinese food and should never be allowed to enjoy it?? I don't think so.




Amen to that. Ivy for the win!


----------



## Famouslastwords

love dubh said:


> What I wrote was absolutely conniving and disgusting. This is a fact. It was low attacking based on the physical - when the target was a perceived personality.
> 
> However, what were the intentions of every single person along the chain that forward my messages to others? Wanted some friends in the pity party, wanted to inspire anger against us, wanted to out us for the dirty scoundrels we are? Did you have your e-"friends" feelings at heart when you freely sent these along? Obviously, I was only thinking of the amusing and painful when I wrote those words. What were you thinking?
> 
> I wrote crass things regarding the necessity of WLS, but the sentiment behind the hyperbole remains - that watching as someone complains on complications in one thread and posts of the unhealthy things they've engaged in in another thread - makes me less apt to believe that "health at any size" is what it's purported to mean.
> 
> But no one needs me to believe in "Health at Any size," or fat acceptance.
> 
> I'm not a contributor to this board. I wanted to see subculture, I saw subculture, I liked/disliked, and I've hurt countless individuals.
> 
> My presence here is unnecessary. I've become less size acceptancy. So, I apologize for the nastiness and the slyness, not for my beliefs. What I can do now is not let such base, animal emotions tarnish existing and future relationships. Bye.




She did Sandie. Last page.


----------



## BeautifulPoeticDisaster

Famouslastwords said:


> She did Sandie. Last page.




I don't count that as an apology...all she said was s"orry I said shit behind your back, I shoulda said it to your face." Bascially. No direct apology was given to AM or BBM.

I tried to stay out of it, but I just had to say that I do not see that as an apology as much as I see it as "I got caught, ok. Bye"


----------



## mossystate

Hi Bexy....yeah, I get what you are saying, however, this smelled less of " oh, that is so not something I think looks good "..and slid into " you are a grotesque person, because of what I see, and you need to be push into an operating room( whatever ) to correct what I do not find personally attractive ".................that's....hardcore.
---

As for talking smack-a-doodle-doo about people in PM?...I am sometimes a real fan of that ( ohhhh...yeah..some of you know my work..*winky-wink* )...but...if you know that you could see a person you have never met..talked to..read their words...maybe someone just walking down the street....and you still think the ugly thoughts...well, then you have officially stumbled over into....hatred....not.." oh, I can't stand her/him..let me find something to play off of here "......that's what I think might be going on here.

Hey, I don't think all this is such a bad thing at all to talk about. I think most people, unless they are friggin saints, or have convinced themselves thay are..can get something good from this tiny explosion.

*eta...I think what love dubh said was actually pretty cool..I mean, she could have been all fake about it...she could have told people what they wanted to hear..but..didn't..there is something fully formed and honest about that..now, that does not erase the ugliness..the negative for many of us still remains, and that is something we have to deal with, in our own heads


----------



## bigsexy920

I don't really know what the hell to say - I guess Dimensions is just another place to keep our guard up as big women. 

One of these women I've actually met, I thought she was rather nice. Now my thoughts about that night are what the hell was running through her head that night? I imagine she was there on a fact finding mission on subculture - something I never thought I was a part of. I always thought I was like everyone else - just bigger.

And Nancy, you are not alone in wondering how many more people with lots of respect and rep here feel the same way as these two. 

I imagine everyone will be really careful about where they are sending their PM's from now on. I mean really, DUH !!!


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

I agree!! But I have to say it did make me laugh. LOL

"I'm sorry you're so fat" - GENIOUS apology!! 

Give me a break.




BigBellySSBBW said:


> I don't count that as an apology...all she said was s"orry I said shit behind your back, I shoulda said it to your face." Bascially. No direct apology was given to AM or BBM.
> 
> I tried to stay out of it, but I just had to say that I do not see that as an apology as much as I see it as "I got caught, ok. Bye"


----------



## LoveBHMS

It's been said if you live in a racist society, you're a racist. 

All you with black friends...I'm willing to bet some of you say [deleted]. As i've said to those with whom i've spoken privately, "in private, many people [use racial slurs]." I'm willing to bet that includes some of you. You ever get cut off in traffic by somebody with dark skin and bitch about terrorists?

I guess if you live in an anti-fat society, you're anti fat. Nobody on this board does not have prejudices. Thos prejudices come from a variety of places, both social and personal. To anyone who's ever considered, or had WLS...how come? To anyone who's tried to lose weight...why bother? So to quote "Casablanca", you're all shocked, SHOCKED that somebody here could have a negative attitude towards a fat person?

Blacks can be racist, fat people can be anti-fat, and yeah, FFA's can also have some anti-fat attitudes. Color me stunned.

I don't need to shore up my FFA creds. I sure as fuck don't have 2000 posts because i've got nothing better to do than sit around here luring fatties into my emotional lair. The people on this board who know me in real life or with whom I have close online friendships know what i'm about. I'm willing to bet i've been naked with more fat people than most of you have. The people to whom i've chosen to extend more personal explanations understand where I'm coming from.

Somebody called me a hypocrite. I'm an FFA and i'm into fetish stuff. I have a zillion posts about both of those things. Not one single person on this board has received personal communication or compliments from me that were anything but sincere. 

Several posters on here have mentioned that their friends don't see them as fat. They dont' get it because they're like...they can see my size. The thing is, when you get to know people as PEOPLE, the exterior stuff goes away. When I see my friend Ivy I see "cute glasses, cool hair, fashion student" I don't think "fat chick". When I talk to Tooz I think "fluffy cat, interested in Japan, from Buffalo." I don't think of her as 'fat person' and that has nothing to do with her size. Similarly, if I believe a person is mean, judgemental, rude or prejudiced, I may just think "fat bitch". The VERY SAME WAY many of you are thinking of me as a thin (well, average sized) bitch.

But to quote the "Breakfast Club"..."people screw up, we screwed up, the difference is, we got caught." If everyone on Dims who'd said nasty shit in private about people's bodies, behaviour, and yeah...clothing got banned, nobody would be left here. Maybe if people worried more about the proverbial planks in their eyes, they'd be less worried about motes of dust in ours.

Before I close, a word about gender. One poster here said "I think women should be as fat as possible and men should be as lean and muscular as possible." Does that bother anyone? If you're unsure, check out the "Hot Boys" thread in the Lounge. Most if not all of those guys are thin. So right here on Dims, women are exclaiming over the hot thin dudes. Still with me? Any SSBBW/BBW who's expressed a preference for a smaller partner or who 'likes the contrast', you all know that fat guys read these boards. Fat guys with the same insecurities about their bodies that you all have.

I do want to extend my sincere and heartfelt apologies to those who were hurt by this episode.

Edited to add: For anyone who's felt comfortable on this very board saying they were "freaked out" or "disturbed" by feederism? Guess what, you're a bigot.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

I've been chided for my overlong posts so I'll try to be brief. Trust and friendship are inherently risky, online even more so. For myself I choose to take people at face value unless they give me good reason to do otherwise. The comfort and closeness gained from the majority far outweighs the bitterness of an occasional betrayal. No harm has been done here that we don't deepen with suspicion and distrust. 

I therefore summon my formidable threadkilling power and ask that we let this go. The shit's outta the goose, as we say in Oklahoma. Nothing to be gained by wallowing in it. :bow:

"We are only falsehood, duplicity, contradiction; we both conceal and disguise ourselves from ourselves." ~ Blaise Pascal


----------



## Risible

fatboy1004 said:


> I haven't read this stuff myself, but I'll say this for those two: I've spent a lot off time on the BHM/FFA board, and they like fat guys. They belong.
> 
> I'll say something else that some of you may wish to consider. Everyone says catty shit behind other people's backs _every day_. I'm not saying that makes it a nice thing to do, just stating a fact of life. And by everyone, I mean you, dear reader, do it too.
> 
> Proof of this fact can probably be found in everyone's PM box _right now_. In fact, judging by the offensive vitriol I've seen printed publicly here in this thread, and in many others on other boards here in the past, I'm pretty sure the stuff that has been written privately would make my head explode. But, like most sane people, I don't spend a lot of time worrying about what people may or may not be saying about me -- or people like me -- behind my back.
> 
> At any rate, for all of those of you who are so angry about what happened in a conversation that was meant to remain private, perhaps you might consider posting your last 50 PM's for everyone to read. Then we can all review _your_ messages for appropriate content and tone.



I don't think the upset and indignation is about the catty shit said about a person or two here, but rather that these two were masquerading as supporters and admirers of fat people.

It's clear to me that they're not supportive or admiring of fat people.

You must have seen posts here where someone will express physical interest - objective interest - in a fat person, while at the same time feeling disgust towards that same object of their desire. For example, someone who says something along the lines of "Sure I'll fuck him/her, I just don't want to be seen with him/her," or how about, "yeah, weird, s/he turns me on, but I can do better than _that_."

These kinds of posts are generally followed by fat people struggling to express the pain they feel upon being confronted - yet again - by this foul dichotomy. It's not acceptable, and the Dims community reacts appropriately.

It's that kind of outrage that I think many are feeling here at Dims today upon discovering what we've nurtured in our midst.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Ivy said:


> It absolutely kills me how everyone is acting like they have never said something mean or snarky or downright horrible about someone else behind closed doors. I've done it before, I admit it. It's part of being human. No one can say they've never talked shit on someone else. It sucks that people's feelings get hurt, but it is part of life.
> 
> The PMs sent were meant to be just that, PRIVATE messages. I'm pretty sure if we were to go through anyone's PMs here we'd find some nasty messages that you never wanted anyone else to see. And if not in their PMs, then in their text messages or emails or whatever. Everyone here has said something mean about someone at some point in time. Maybe it wasn't as mean as what they said, maybe it was a whole lot meaner. Regardless, people do it. It sucks, but what are you gonna do?
> 
> It saddens me that people are getting this worked up over something that someone said on the internet. I know that what happens online affects how you feel, but you have to remind yourself that the internet does not need to be that serious business. Step away and calm down and remind yourself of that.
> 
> Furthermore, LoveBHMS and I have been e-friends for over a year. Homegirl loves herself some fat men. And women. That is VERY clear to me. Just because she is attracted to fatties doesn't mean she has to love everything about them. I mean, I love chinese food more than anything but I HATE shirmp toast. The thought of it makes me want to puke. Does that mean I hate chinese food and should never be allowed to enjoy it?? I don't think so.



If it was said about you I doubt you would be this sympathetic. To open up and read some shit like that about you is NOT cool and not acceptable, I don't care if it was meant to be private. It's not private anymore and quite frankly that is the risk you take with saying ignorant shit on the internet. Furthermore having to exist on a board with people who think thusly in a place you should have a reasonable expectation of not having to be bothered with this kind of shit is unacceptable. I don't care if she's your friend and she's nice to you. I'm sure she's nice to a lot of people, let her go and hang with them. We don't need that shit here.


----------



## LillyBBBW

LoveBHMS said:


> It's been said if you live in a racist society, you're a racist.
> 
> All you with black friends...I'm willing to bet some of you say [deleted]. As i've said to those with whom i've spoken privately, "in private, many people [use racial slurs]." I'm willing to bet that includes some of you. You ever get cut off in traffic by somebody with dark skin and bitch about terrorists?
> 
> I guess if you live in an anti-fat society, you're anti fat. Nobody on this board does not have prejudices. Thos prejudices come from a variety of places, both social and personal. To anyone who's ever considered, or had WLS...how come? To anyone who's tried to lose weight...why bother? So to quote "Casablanca", you're all shocked, SHOCKED that somebody here could have a negative attitude towards a fat person?
> 
> Blacks can be racist, fat people can be anti-fat, and yeah, FFA's can also have some anti-fat attitudes. Color me stunned.
> 
> I don't need to shore up my FFA creds. I sure as fuck don't have 2000 posts because i've got nothing better to do than sit around here luring fatties into my emotional lair. The people on this board who know me in real life or with whom I have close online friendships know what i'm about. I'm willing to bet i've been naked with more fat people than most of you have. The people to whom i've chosen to extend more personal explanations understand where I'm coming from.
> 
> Somebody called me a hypocrite. I'm an FFA and i'm into fetish stuff. I have a zillion posts about both of those things. Not one single person on this board has received personal communication or compliments from me that were anything but sincere.
> 
> Several posters on here have mentioned that their friends don't see them as fat. They dont' get it because they're like...they can see my size. The thing is, when you get to know people as PEOPLE, the exterior stuff goes away. When I see my friend Ivy I see "cute glasses, cool hair, fashion student" I don't think "fat chick". When I talk to Tooz I think "fluffy cat, interested in Japan, from Buffalo." I don't think of her as 'fat person' and that has nothing to do with her size. Similarly, if I believe a person is mean, judgemental, rude or prejudiced, I may just think "fat bitch". The VERY SAME WAY many of you are thinking of me as a thin (well, average sized) bitch.
> 
> But to quote the "Breakfast Club"..."people screw up, we screwed up, the difference is, we got caught." If everyone on Dims who'd said nasty shit in private about people's bodies, behaviour, and yeah...clothing got banned, nobody would be left here. Maybe if people worried more about the proverbial planks in their eyes, they'd be less worried about motes of dust in ours.
> 
> Before I close, a word about gender. One poster here said "I think women should be as fat as possible and men should be as lean and muscular as possible." Does that bother anyone? If you're unsure, check out the "Hot Boys" thread in the Lounge. Most if not all of those guys are thin. So right here on Dims, women are exclaiming over the hot thin dudes. Still with me? Any SSBBW/BBW who's expressed a preference for a smaller partner or who 'likes the contrast', you all know that fat guys read these boards. Fat guys with the same insecurities about their bodies that you all have.
> 
> I do want to extend my sincere and heartfelt apologies to those who were hurt by this episode.
> 
> Edited to add: For anyone who's felt comfortable on this very board saying they were "freaked out" or "disturbed" by feederism? Guess what, you're a bigot.



That's a nice reach but you've gone too far off to move anybody. We're not interested in what society is doing, we're talking about what YOU did and said which goes far and away beyond, "I prefer thin guys 'cause of the contrast."


----------



## AnnMarie

Just for the record, I don't need or desire an apology. I feel, as has been stated, that's simply a "sorry you found out" type thing, and I have no interest in the charade of that. 

I'm all set, I have truth from words, and I don't really need more than that. I've been living this life with these cankles for a very long time. 

But thanks very much for the suggestion of surgery to mutilate my digestive system so I can cover my feet with cotton to become less repulsive to you.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

I take it back. THIS is the best apology ever. LOL

Let me give you 2 an example of a proper apology:

"I am sorry if my callous and ignorant words caused anyone here pain. I was wrong. And to AnnMarie and Ginny - I am truly sorry that I mentiond you 2 specifically and hurt your feelings. I was wrong. I will try my best to be a better person in the future and I hope given time you can forgive me. I was wrong. Again I'm sorry."

OK?

Like Tina said I have said things on these boards that hurt others. But - I have always apologized for my callous actions. I have even apologized publically a few times. These apologies - really hollow!




LoveBHMS said:


> It's been said if you live in a racist society, you're a racist.
> 
> All you with black friends...I'm willing to bet some of you say [deleted]. As i've said to those with whom i've spoken privately, "in private, many people [use racial slurs]." I'm willing to bet that includes some of you. You ever get cut off in traffic by somebody with dark skin and bitch about terrorists?
> 
> I guess if you live in an anti-fat society, you're anti fat. Nobody on this board does not have prejudices. Thos prejudices come from a variety of places, both social and personal. To anyone who's ever considered, or had WLS...how come? To anyone who's tried to lose weight...why bother? So to quote "Casablanca", you're all shocked, SHOCKED that somebody here could have a negative attitude towards a fat person?
> 
> Blacks can be racist, fat people can be anti-fat, and yeah, FFA's can also have some anti-fat attitudes. Color me stunned.
> 
> I don't need to shore up my FFA creds. I sure as fuck don't have 2000 posts because i've got nothing better to do than sit around here luring fatties into my emotional lair. The people on this board who know me in real life or with whom I have close online friendships know what i'm about. I'm willing to bet i've been naked with more fat people than most of you have. The people to whom i've chosen to extend more personal explanations understand where I'm coming from.
> 
> Somebody called me a hypocrite. I'm an FFA and i'm into fetish stuff. I have a zillion posts about both of those things. Not one single person on this board has received personal communication or compliments from me that were anything but sincere.
> 
> Several posters on here have mentioned that their friends don't see them as fat. They dont' get it because they're like...they can see my size. The thing is, when you get to know people as PEOPLE, the exterior stuff goes away. When I see my friend Ivy I see "cute glasses, cool hair, fashion student" I don't think "fat chick". When I talk to Tooz I think "fluffy cat, interested in Japan, from Buffalo." I don't think of her as 'fat person' and that has nothing to do with her size. Similarly, if I believe a person is mean, judgemental, rude or prejudiced, I may just think "fat bitch". The VERY SAME WAY many of you are thinking of me as a thin (well, average sized) bitch.
> 
> But to quote the "Breakfast Club"..."people screw up, we screwed up, the difference is, we got caught." If everyone on Dims who'd said nasty shit in private about people's bodies, behaviour, and yeah...clothing got banned, nobody would be left here. Maybe if people worried more about the proverbial planks in their eyes, they'd be less worried about motes of dust in ours.
> 
> Before I close, a word about gender. One poster here said "I think women should be as fat as possible and men should be as lean and muscular as possible." Does that bother anyone? If you're unsure, check out the "Hot Boys" thread in the Lounge. Most if not all of those guys are thin. So right here on Dims, women are exclaiming over the hot thin dudes. Still with me? Any SSBBW/BBW who's expressed a preference for a smaller partner or who 'likes the contrast', you all know that fat guys read these boards. Fat guys with the same insecurities about their bodies that you all have.
> 
> I do want to extend my sincere and heartfelt apologies to those who were hurt by this episode.
> 
> Edited to add: For anyone who's felt comfortable on this very board saying they were "freaked out" or "disturbed" by feederism? Guess what, you're a bigot.


----------



## Ivy

LillyBBBW said:


> If it was said about you I doubt you would be this sympathetic. To open up and read some shit like that about you is NOT cool and not acceptable, I don't care if it was meant to be private. It's not private anymore and quite frankly that is the risk you take with saying ignorant shit on the internet. Furthermore having to exist on a board with people who think thusly in a place you should have a reasonable expectation of not having to be bothered with this kind of shit is unacceptable. I don't care if she's your friend and she's nice to you. I'm sure she's nice to a lot of people, let her go and hang with them. We don't need that shit here.



I just went through this about a week ago with someone i consider to be a close friend who exists in my offline everyday life. Yeah, my feelings were hurt by what she said, but I know that I've said less than kind things about other people before. We all have. I'm over it. I forgive her. Loves x2 made mistakes and said shitty things. Does that mean they should be black listed forever and that they are horrible people? I don't think so. People make mistakes. It sucks, but there is nothing that anyone can do about it other than say sorry and hope for that someday they will be forgiven. Maybe I get over things too easily.. I don't know.


----------



## Sandie S-R

Famouslastwords said:


> She did Sandie. Last page.



Well, "sorry I got caught", isn't exactly an apology in my book. But yes I read what she wrote. Hope she had fun experiencing her "subculture" at our expense.


----------



## Tooz

Somebody rep LoveBHMS and Ivy for me.


----------



## biodieselman

I'm here to support my SSBBW wife, Ris, whom I love & adore. I have seen stares & disapproving looks from strangers in public. I'm a big tall guy & I place myself between Ris & them to protect my wife. I only wish I could have somehow protected her from the hate wantonly & arrogantly circulated & displayed by these two hypocrites.





Seriously now... sticking up for & defending hateful hypocrites? Shame on you.

Very revealing how hypocrites can't bow out gracefully, apologizing for the hurt they caused others who are different.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Ivy said:


> I just went through this about a week ago with someone i consider to be a close friend who exists in my offline everyday life. Yeah, my feelings were hurt by what she said, but I know that I've said less than kind things about other people before. We all have. I'm over it. I forgive her. Loves x2 made mistakes and said shitty things. Does that mean they should be black listed forever and that they are horrible people? I don't think so. People make mistakes. It sucks, but there is nothing that anyone can do about it other than say sorry and hope for that someday they will be forgiven. Maybe I get over things too easily.. I don't know.



I've said nasty stuff about people too but not in their house AND I didn't get caught. If I had gotten caught I have sense enough to realize I am in no postion to make demands of anybody. They have a right to feel whatever it is they feel and to ask me to leave if they no longer feel comfortable around me. I certainly wouldn't blame them or recite some drivel about racists and other mean people who say stuff. I'd get my ass out of there and write a sincere apology if I felt so inclined, not smugly justify myself.


----------



## swordchick

I think it is more hurtful to add racial slurs to mix to make an excuse for what was done. 

So I guess it is now acceptable to use racial slurs in Dimensions, especially to make a point.



biodieselman said:


> Very revealing how hypocrites can't bow out gracefully, apologizing for the hurt they caused others who are different.


----------



## Risible

Ernest Nagel said:


> ...
> 
> I therefore summon my formidable threadkilling power and ask that we let this go. The shit's outta the goose, as we say in Oklahoma. Nothing to be gained by wallowing in it. :bow: ...



The drama threads and flame wars that go on around here, they're pretty interesting. I admit I like to read them, sometimes I chime in if the subject stimulates me enough.

But this controversy. This controversy, Ernest, has an altogether different impact on me. It's _personal_. Not just because a couple of friends of mine were attacked, but that I had such esteem for the 2Loves. I felt that they were allies of fat people. 

So, I'm trying to sort out my feelings here, deal with my bafflement and my disappointment, and I'm not ready to let it go. I'm not ready to switch off my feelings on this subject, like they were something that didn't matter.


----------



## Risible

swordchick said:


> I think it is more hurtful to add racial slurs to mix to make an excuse for what was done.
> 
> So I guess it is now acceptable to use racial slurs in Dimensions, especially to make a point.



Never in my book, and never according to the rules. I'm a mod, and I guarantee you that if you see such a thing, it's because one of the mods hasn't laid eyes on it. *Report it!*

I think you were speaking to LoveBHMs' post, Swordchick, but I just wanted to clarify that for any newbies who may be reading this.


----------



## Sandie S-R

Tooz said:


> Somebody rep LoveBHMS........



Fat chance.

So, her idea of an apology: "Yeah, I'm as asshole. Everybody is an asshole. We all make asshole-ish statements because we live in an asshole-ish society. So what?!" 

I don't call people the "n" word, nor nasty vile words she suggests we do in her so called "apology". 

And you think we should rep her for that?

Unbelieveable.


----------



## Tooz

Sandie S-R said:


> Fat chance.
> 
> So, her idea of an apology: "Yeah, I'm as asshole. Everybody is an asshole. We all make asshole-ish statements because we live in an asshole-ish society. So what?!"
> 
> I don't call people the "n" word, nor to I say the kind of things she suggests we do in her so called "apology". And you think we should rep her for that?
> 
> Unbelieveable.



I was talking to the people in this corner of the ring, dear. You could have easily chose to disregard that rather than insult me as well.

Jesus fucking CHRIST.

Do I agree with what was said? NO. I am defending her based on how this all came about.


----------



## mossystate

Yeah...whoa....ummmm, some of us who are fans of ' spirited ' behind the scenes talk, never quite get around to using certain slurs...ummmmm..maybe because they don't enter our minds...?...could be?...maybe?.......if I don't like a person, I have a fantastic imagination and can come up with very colorful labels...if one lunges for the slurs...isn't that a lil more than ' just ' playing a quick game of verbal ping-pong?


----------



## Michelle

I've been trying to decide if I owe anyone an apology for sort of starting this shitstorm with my post in the "As long as you're healthy" thread yesterday. I don't think so. I believe this thread should stay open and people should be able to vent their frustrations about this. 

The issue of privacy is irrelevent at this point. No one invaded anyone's privacy. The issue of banning is really a moot point too. These people shouldn't be banned, as expressing their opinions in PM's isn't a bannable offense, is it? They've been outed and that will be enough to decide their fate here -- especially after the responses they made in this thread.

And the issue of whether or not we've all been catty and vengeful and hateful isn't the point either. And believe it or not, I don't think all people _are_ that way and not everyone has innate bigotry just waiting to burst forth. Bigotry has it's roots in ignorance and/or insecurity and not everyone here is ignorant or insecure. 

I have never sent a PM here that was derogatory towards fat people in general. I'm not claiming I haven't been a jerk now and then, but it most definitely was about something specific like a post or a personality.

I think what's so outrageous with this, and what has most people so offended, is that two trusted community members were using a fat acceptance board to send PM's that were in total opposition to what this place is supposed to be about. 

What this boils down to is trust. Two people who had garnered the trust of most of the people here showed themselves not to be so trustworthy afterall. This is something that happens frequently as we live out our lives and it almost never fails to throw us off balance. 

So the question becomes what do we do about it? Here's my suggestion. We don't let ourselves be bothered by it anymore. They've been exposed. We know that if we're cankly or "too" fat, they may smack talk us. We're used to that. What we _can _do is give them no more credibility. And if we run into someone else who spews some fat-hating sentiments, we out them too. We need to make these types of people pariahs in this community and then they'll have no power over us.


----------



## prettysteve

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I'm here in spite of you



I AM HERE BECAUSE I LOVE PRETTY BIG BEAUTIFUL WOMEN LIKE THE "GREEN EYED FAIRY" LADY BECAUSE SHE HAS PRETTY GREEN EYES AND A KNOCK OUT SMILE........ From your Chocolate Colored Phat Admirerretty Steve


----------



## Waxwing

prettysteve said:


> I AM HERE BECAUSE I LOVE PRETTY BIG BEAUTIFUL WOMEN LIKE THE "GREEN EYED FAIRY" LADY BECAUSE SHE HAS PRETTY GREEN EYES AND A KNOCK OUT SMILE........ From your Chocolate Colored Phat Admirerretty Steve



Way to stay on topic.


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

prettysteve said:


> I AM HERE BECAUSE I LOVE PRETTY BIG BEAUTIFUL WOMEN LIKE THE "GREEN EYED FAIRY" LADY BECAUSE SHE HAS PRETTY GREEN EYES AND A KNOCK OUT SMILE........ From your Chocolate Colored Phat Admirerretty Steve



I love you, man. It's like you could walk into the burn ward at a hospital, step over victims, and find the hottest nurse and be like, damn, you're a hottie to end all hotties.

TAP THAT? YOU BET YOUR ASS I WOULD.


----------



## Sandie S-R

Tooz said:


> I was talking to the people in this corner of the ring, dear. You could have easily chose to disregard that rather than insult me as well.
> 
> Jesus fucking CHRIST.
> 
> Do I agree with what was said? NO. I am defending her based on how this all came about.



That's the problem, dear. There is absolutely NO defense of what was said, or what was done. Period. How it came about was their own fault for passing on the PM thinking others would find it funny too.

It is obvious that neither one of them have the least bit of remorse for what they have done or said. They do not care that they have hurt the feelings and broken the trust of people that considered them friends. 

There is nothing you can say at this point in their defense. 

Nothing.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

prettysteve said:


> I AM HERE BECAUSE I LOVE PRETTY BIG BEAUTIFUL WOMEN LIKE THE "GREEN EYED FAIRY" LADY BECAUSE SHE HAS PRETTY GREEN EYES AND A KNOCK OUT SMILE........ From your Chocolate Colored Phat Admirerretty Steve



Thank you, Steve


----------



## Wagimawr

I wonder. Do we use snark because we feel it'll actually be succesful, or because we know that rational explanation just won't cut it, so fuck it, let's be smartasses?

(although snark done well is still pretty damned funny - bravo, BGB )


----------



## BeautifulPoeticDisaster

Sandie S-R said:


> Fat chance.
> 
> So, her idea of an apology: "Yeah, I'm as asshole. Everybody is an asshole. We all make asshole-ish statements because we live in an asshole-ish society. So what?!"
> 
> I don't call people the "n" word, nor nasty vile words she suggests we do in her so called "apology".
> 
> And you think we should rep her for that?
> 
> Unbelieveable.




my sentiments exactly. nuff said.


----------



## Tooz

Sandie S-R said:


> That's the problem, dear. There is absolutely NO defense of what was said, or what was done. Period. How it came about was their own fault for passing on the PM thinking others would find it funny too.
> 
> It is obvious that neither one of them have the least bit of remorse for what they have done or said. They do not care that they have hurt the feelings and broken the trust of people that considered them friends.
> 
> There is nothing you can say at this point in their defense.
> 
> Nothing.



Sorry you feel that way.


----------



## LoveBHMS

> Originally Posted by Sandie S-R
> Fat chance.
> 
> So, her idea of an apology: "Yeah, I'm as asshole. Everybody is an asshole. We all make asshole-ish statements because we live in an asshole-ish society. So what?!"



Nope. That was an explanation. The apology was where I said I was sorry.

If you are happy and comfortable with yourself, nobody else's opinion should matter. 

I'm an FFA. Says so _right in the screen name._ I'm a fetishist, probably have like....100? posts in the Weight Board about that. I never said anything beyond that I belonged to those 2 groups. 

Not one single post that i've made has been dishonest or hypocritical. 

And the comments about race were _analogies._


----------



## Waxwing

Sandie S-R said:


> They do not care that they have hurt the feelings and broken the trust of people that considered them friends.



It can be hard for people to express it, but I know that there is regret there. I'm not saying that makes everything ok, I just wanted to clarify it.


----------



## swordchick

That is understood and it is still not acceptable because you can make that point without using racial slurs or can you?



LoveBHMS said:


> And the comments about race were _analogies._


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Wait a minute - so now YOU want to cop an attitude?

Exactly how big are your balls????? Oh wait was that a slur against drag queens??

_



I want to apologize to all the drag queens that post here for my comment above. I was wrong.

Click to expand...

_
I think you NEED to keep posting. I want to see just how big that hole you're digging is gonna get.

Got my popcorn - carry on!!




LoveBHMS said:


> Nope. That was an explanation. The apology was where I said I was sorry.
> 
> If you are happy and comfortable with yourself, nobody else's opinion should matter.
> 
> I'm an FFA. Says so _right in the screen name._ I'm a fetishist, probably have like....100? posts in the Weight Board about that. I never said anything beyond that I belonged to those 2 groups.
> 
> Not one single post that i've made has been dishonest or hypocritical.
> 
> And the comments about race were _analogies._


----------



## Sandie S-R

Waxwing said:


> It can be hard for people to express it, but I know that there is regret there. I'm not saying that makes everything ok, I just wanted to clarify it.



Both Loves were defensive rude and insulting in their so called apologies. Remorse is obvious, and there was absolutely none of it in their posts here. 

I's kinda the old, if it walks like a duck.....etc.

Just sayin.


----------



## Tina

LoveBHMS said:


> Nope. That was an explanation. The apology was where I said I was sorry.
> 
> If you are happy and comfortable with yourself, nobody else's opinion should matter.
> 
> I'm an FFA. Says so _right in the screen name._ I'm a fetishist, probably have like....100? posts in the Weight Board about that. I never said anything beyond that I belonged to those 2 groups.
> 
> Not one single post that i've made has been dishonest or hypocritical.
> 
> And the comments about race were _analogies._



The 'analogies' you made were offensive and against the rules. You didn't need to say the words (words that not everyone says -- or even _thinks_) in order to try to defend yourself.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Fuck it....


----------



## Asrai

I have no idea what was said in those PM's but I feel the guilt is on the ones who made it public.

If this had stayed private no one would have been hurt and no one would have known.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Waxwing said:


> Is this the consensus? Does everyone feel this way?
> 
> Lets get it out in the open now so that those of us who are about to be hit with suspicion can leave the community now.




Personally, I think you're wonderful. That's all I have to say on this matter.


----------



## Tina

*I agree*. That means that the original parties, who were doing the back-stabbing, should never had made it public. Had they not told others about what they were discussing between themselves, no one would have known, eh?


----------



## Aireman

Asrai said:


> If this had stayed private no one would have been hurt and no one would have known.



I disagree. Soon or later true colors show.


----------



## LoveBHMS

Waxwing said:


> It can be hard for people to express it, but I know that there is regret there. I'm not saying that makes everything ok, I just wanted to clarify it.



When this broke, I composed a very long and very personal PM that went to several members of this community. Much of it won't be shared in public largely because there is no point in doing so, and because some things are private.

The reason I took the initiative to do that is that I knew feelings would be hurt, and I did believe I owed some people a detailed explanation about my own life, experiences, and attitudes. That is known as taking responsibility for your actions. I made it clear that nobody was under any obligation to forgive me or respond. I deeply regret that my personal issues and prejudices hurt somebody else.

The only somewhat personal thing I will say is this. Lots of times, the thing we think we 'hate' most in somebody else is the quality we see in ourselves. Or a quality we dislike in ourselves is what we are most critical of in others. I've posted about having had an eating disorder, so you can probably all guess i don't like my body. But on the flip side of that, a lot of you saw some very raw and critical comments about personal behaviour and responsibility. If that touched a chord...so be it.


----------



## Tooz

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> One more question...if they were saying those things about YOU- after pretending to be your pal, would you be so willing to go to bat for "their privacy"? Just curious....



Honestly? I'd be more angry at myself for being stupid enough to let my guard down. This is the internet-- there is nowhere safe. If they were talking shit about me RIGHT THIS SECOND, well, whatever. If people want to tear apart my appearance, well, I DID post pictures of myself, didn't I?

If you don't want something like that to happen, then be careful about what of yourself you put out there. This is a public site on the internet.


----------



## BeautifulPoeticDisaster

Asrai said:


> If this had stayed private no one would have been hurt and no one would have known.



Does that make it ok? Does betraying your so called friends ok as long as no one else finds out????? And if they wanted it to stay private then they should have kept it private instead of forward it around like a joke email.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

ROFLMAO!!!!!!

Giiirl you got nerve!! I gotta give ya that. But you know what? You need to leave this community. You have gone a long, long way in these latest posts to solidify you're snotty, condiscending attitude. At least the other _love_ had the grace to leave.

*shaking my head in disbelief*





LoveBHMS said:


> When this broke, I composed a very long and very personal PM that went to several members of this community. Much of it won't be shared in public largely because there is no point in doing so, and because some things are private.
> 
> The reason I took the initiative to do that is that I knew feelings would be hurt, and I did believe I owed some people a detailed explanation about my own life, experiences, and attitudes. That is known as taking responsibility for your actions. I made it clear that nobody was under any obligation to forgive me or respond. I deeply regret that my personal issues and prejudices hurt somebody else.
> 
> The only somewhat personal thing I will say is this. Lots of times, the thing we think we 'hate' most in somebody else is the quality we see in ourselves. Or a quality we dislike in ourselves is what we are most critical of in others. I've posted about having had an eating disorder, so you can probably all guess i don't like my body. But on the flip side of that, a lot of you saw some very raw and critical comments about personal behaviour and responsibility. If that touched a chord...so be it.


----------



## Aireman

LoveBHMS said:


> The only somewhat personal thing I will say is this. Lots of times, the thing we think we 'hate' most in somebody else is the quality we see in ourselves. Or a quality we dislike in ourselves is what we are most critical of in others. I've posted about having had an eating disorder, so you can probably all guess i don't like my body. But on the flip side of that, a lot of you saw some very raw and critical comments about personal behaviour and responsibility. If that touched a chord...so be it.



Some people so rock at missing the point!


----------



## Chimpi

In the hour of separation, an entire community can crumble. A community with strength, courage, and human compassion can rebuild the broken pieces.


----------



## Asrai

BigBellySSBBW said:


> Does that make it ok? Does betraying your so called friends ok as long as no one else finds out????? And if they wanted it to stay private then they should have kept it private instead of forward it around like a joke email.



If they themselves spread the message it is of course inacceptable behaviour. 

If someone else managed to "overhear" their conversation and decided to make it public then I forgive the authors of the PM's.

I believe in being able to say whatever you want as long as you do not hurt people.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Tooz said:


> Honestly? I'd be more angry at myself for being stupid enough to let my guard down. This is the internet-- there is nowhere safe. If they were talking shit about me RIGHT THIS SECOND, well, whatever. If people want to tear apart my appearance, well, I DID post pictures of myself, didn't I?
> 
> If you don't want something like that to happen, then be careful about what of yourself you put out there. This is a public site on the internet.



So you are okay with people that claim to be your pals, to support you in some way, to bash you behind your back.....because they do it on the net? 

That doesn't fly with me....if that flies with you, then cool. However, I feel the need to be more understanding of those with the hurt feelings. Being on the internet doesn't make bad behavior "okay".


----------



## olwen

I am here because I wanted to start a blog about fat sexuality and realized I needed more perspective. I remembered Dimensions and so I joined. Since then I have learned a lot about tolerance among other things, especially for skinny people, whether they love fat or not. I had so much anger and hatred and resentment in me because I felt like they had the whole world to play in when I didn't even have a pot to piss in. I've learned that they have their own issues with fat too and I shouldn't hate them because of it. Instead, I should just try to understand their perspective. In doing so I realize that a lot if it is just based on ignorance of the experience of being fat, or confusion as to why they like it. Sometimes my defensiveness was/is justified and sometimes it's just a knee jerk reaction. The more I post and read, the more I learn about other people's experiences the more I grow as a person. I'm very grateful for that. 

Also, this is one of the first sites I've been to where a gal can ask a guy, any guy to post a sexy pic and actually get one. How rare is that? Not for nothin, but me likey. Thank you men. :bow::bow::bow:


----------



## Tooz

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> So you are okay with people that claim to be your pals, to support you in some way, to bash you behind your back.....because they do it on the net?
> 
> That doesn't fly with me....if that flies with you, then cool. However, I feel the need to be more understanding of those with the hurt feelings. Being on the internet doesn't make bad behavior "okay".



I never said it was okay. I said if it happened, I would not be surprised. People on the internet are people on the internet. People behave differently online. To expect safe haven from/with people online, especially with the myriad of ways to be backhanded, is a little unreasonable.


----------



## supersoup

i am here because i came across this site one day when i was looking for information about other large women, resources i suppose. i've stayed because this place is amazing, i've made lifelong friends, and i owe a lot of my self confidence to the people here.


----------



## superodalisque

I'm here because i'm a woman who likeed herself fat a long time ago and i really love the look of fat. i'm not just accepting it. i feel in my heart that its a thing of beauty--and not just because someone told me so. or not just because its easier to believe that than what some of the world says. and i'm really hoping that it will catch on. the beauty of it for its own sake, like having brown eyes etc...

if someone doesn't like it that i'm as fat and beautiful as i am --SO!


----------



## LillyBBBW

LoveBHMS said:


> Nope. That was an explanation. The apology was where I said I was sorry.
> 
> *If you are happy and comfortable with yourself, nobody else's opinion should matter. *
> 
> I'm an FFA. Says so _right in the screen name._ I'm a fetishist, probably have like....100? posts in the Weight Board about that. I never said anything beyond that I belonged to those 2 groups.
> 
> Not one single post that i've made has been dishonest or hypocritical.
> 
> And the comments about race were _analogies._



LBHM, I truly like you. I've enjoyed your posts on the WB as well as many other posts here and I don't think you are any more awful than the average person. Surely you can appreciate the pain you've caused here though. I like you but I like the people you hurt also and the way you said it was especially catty. I'm not above saying catty stuff myself but that doesn't make it ok. Had someone come here on the board and said something like that about you I would be right there next you condemning their actions and have. There are people here, on a board that glorifies being fat, who think being thin is disgusting and have said so openly. I don't see why that should be systematically condemned as wrong but what you've done should be dismissed as just one of those things that we should take in stride as long as we feel good about ourselves. From your posts in the past it was clear at least to me that you don't find a lot of fat women aesthetically pleasing which never bothered me. We can't help what we like and what we don't. What you said here though and has been revealed was deeply hurtful and we're tired of being told that we should just shut up and face hateful speech with dignity when nobody else has to.


----------



## fatchicksrockuk

Asrai said:


> If they themselves spread the message it is of course inacceptable behaviour.
> 
> If someone else managed to "overhear" their conversation and decided to make it public then I forgive the authors of the PM's.
> 
> I believe in being able to say whatever you want as long as you do not hurt people.



It's not you that needs to be talking about forgiving. The only people who should be talking about forgiving are the people who have been hurt in response to a heart-felt apology from the people that hurt them. Sadly, it doesn't look like that apology is coming.


----------



## BeautifulPoeticDisaster

Somebody rep lilly for me! Please.  kthnxbye


----------



## Famouslastwords

I can't rep her for you Donni, but I just wanted to say...

I'm sitting here eating my Burger King taco and reading this thread. I don't know if I have cankles. I might. But cankles or not. _I'm dead sexy._


----------



## Wagimawr

Famouslastwords said:


> I don't know if I have cankles. I might. But cankles or not. _I'm dead sexy._


oh fuck yes.

and that goes for every woman I've seen post here. "Flaws" or not, personal image concerns or not, there are some truly beautiful people here, inside and out 

on another note, honestly, I just got the PMs, and I'm sorely tempted to post bits and pieces of it and seriously start ripping some new ones.

Sorely. Tempted.


----------



## stan_der_man

Eclectic_Girl said:


> fa_man_stan said:
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. I know you were probably angry when you typed this up Saucywench... but on that last sentence I quoted, you put an extra comma after the word "yours". Other than that everything else looked pretty good...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, that's an optional comma; can be used for stylistic reasons. [/professional editor]
> 
> back atcha, Stan
Click to expand...


I'll 'fess Eclectic... I go by what sounds right to me, I'm a total hack when it comes to formal punctuation. Thanks for setting the record strait... my bad.  



I withdraw my correction Saucywrench... a perfectly acceptable comma!



saucywench said:


> ...
> Stan, I appreciate your apology, but there's no need--nothing was directed at you, in fact, I don't even know if I made it to your post (nor the person who PMed me's post) before I left yesterday. Cute comment about the comma, I'm always appreciative when an error is pointed out (assuming it's correct ), as that helps me be mindful not to do it again. That's how I've learned a lot of grammar rules, such as one professor pointing out to me that I used it's (it is, versus simply its) incorrectly...or an online writer friend who educated me in the distinction between the word _anxious_ (a word I've noticed even news reporters incorrectly use) and the word _eager_. I'll send you a PM later.
> ...



I'm glad there were no hurt feelings Saucywench. For what it's worth... this will more than likely go down in Dimensions history as one of the liveliest "why I'm here testimonial" threads ever. 



Hopefully time will heal some of the wounds that were created by this whole mess, at least lessen the pain. Personally, I have the highest respect for LoveBHMS and Love Dubh for coming forward and apologizing on this thread. Maybe their apologies ring hollow to some in light of what was said, but I see no better thing for them to do in this situation even if it's all for not and old friendships remain shattered by this. I myself harbor some opinions that I don't think would necessarily go over very well on Dimensions, but I sincerely try to balance my opinions with those of others who have differing opinions. My opinions aren't necessarily changed by this, but I do at least come out of these types of discussions with a better understanding of others. Banishing ideas contrary to the "norm" doesn't get rid of those ideas, it fortifies them in many cases. People often learn from their mistakes, banishing people who make errors, especially ones who own up to their errors neither corrects the wrong commited nor "educates" the person who made the mistake. ( "neither" "nor"... was that a double negative...? Anyhoo...) If these were personal attacks posted in a thread, that would be a whole different situation, completely worthy of banishment. But they weren't, they were very unfortunate (again, as the two admitted...) statements that apparently leaked out by accident. If Dimensions is a place where fat people and FAs find acceptance, understanding, promote understanding and advocate their situation, then things like what has happened here are going to happen occasionally. If we take this opportunity, unfortunate as it may have been and learn from it, than we are the wiser. I know it's easy for me to say all of this having been that none of the comments were directed at me. I've had my share of insults thrown at me, and I've said plenty of stupid and hurtful things about others myself which I later regretted, I understand both sides of this. Hopefully others can understand both sides of this and learn from it.

I can't think of anything else to say about this off hand, other than I truly believe it would be a shame to loose two people like LoveBHMS and Love Dubh who, other than saying some very hurtful things contrary to what Dimensions stands for, making some directed personal insults that they have stated they regret, seem like sincere, caring and intellegent people who have something to add to this community in my opinion. I also think it would be a shame for this to leave a cloud of suspicion hanging over people who "don't belong here" like the not necessarily FA oriented thin women, or FAs who don't necessarily agree with all aspects of things discussed here, etc...



Stan


----------



## TraciJo67

Love Dubh, LoveBHMS ...
I spoke with both of you a few weeks ago. At the time, I didn't know what was said (nor did I feel that I needed to). At that time, both of you seemed confused as to how the information got out. One of you even wondered if a moderator could see private messages. I could empathize with the situation that you found yourselves in, because I've made caustic remarks about people that I don't like. We all have. To one degree or another, we're all bloody hypocrites. I do wish I hadn't seen the transcript, subsequently ... and it wasn't solicited by me, either.

What I'm having a hard time with is that I don't think your PM's were "raided" by anyone; in fact, I think that one of you copied your own chat transcript and then forwarded it to other people. That's what I keep thinking about: Why would you think those remarks were so clever, so worthy of forwarding on to someone else? I just keep coming back to that. 

Neither of you owe me squat. I won't expect a response; I'm just honestly curious here, and it is for this reason alone that I find myself aghast and unable to be at all supportive of either of you. I don't pretend to set myself above you. I don't make fun of "cankles", but I have my own set of biases and I know that I've said mean things about people that I don't like. By the same token though, I have the sense to know ... this part of me isn't the most attractive ... I don't go out of my way to advertise it to other people. There is such a thing as ... discretion. A sense of shame. Knowing that my snarky, catty remarks aren't appropriate for an audience. I also know who my trusted friends are, and have to believe that the remarks that I make *to* them aren't going to be made public. If ever they are, I'll have to deal with that. I'm not going to self-righteously go on and on about my right to privacy (though in that case, my privacy actually *would have* been breached, since *I* didn't forward the remarks myself).

So I guess I'm wondering, why did you forward the transcript? What could you possibly have been thinking? Did you really think the remarks were worthy of posterity?


----------



## Waxwing

Wagimawr said:


> on another note, honestly, I just got the PMs, and I'm sorely tempted to post bits and pieces of it and seriously start ripping some new ones.
> 
> Sorely. Tempted.



I think you're kidding, but in case not, this is possibly the worst idea in the history of ever.


----------



## CleverBomb

Asrai said:


> If they themselves spread the message it is of course inacceptable behaviour.
> 
> If someone else managed to "overhear" their conversation and decided to make it public then I forgive the authors of the PM's.
> 
> I believe in being able to say whatever you want as long as you do not hurt people.



*Everything* you send through the Internet (blog and forum posts, photos, emails, even instant or private messages) is potentially on the Internet *forever* (or can be put there by anyone it's sent to or forwarded by). If it would offend someone whose feelings and opinions you care about, think long and hard about putting it out there.

That said, http://xkcd.com/137/("Dreams")

-Rusty


----------



## Wagimawr

Waxwing said:


> I think you're kidding, but in case not, this is possibly the worst idea in the history of ever.


no. not kidding at all. some of the comments in the PMs are pretty blatant.

I never said it was a good idea, and I never said I'd do it, but I'm still tempted.


----------



## Waxwing

Wagimawr said:


> no. not kidding. some of the comments in the PMs are pretty blatant.
> 
> I never said it was a good idea, and I never said I'd do it, but I'm still tempted.



Yeah but there's no need to re-open wounds that...well, are still open. You know what I mean.


----------



## Wagimawr

Yes, but at some point it becomes an issue of "some people NEED to get it" vs. "some people will never get it" - I must admit I'm still wrapping my head around the whole "people are different and thus react to and comprehend things differently" idea: thanks, internet!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Tooz said:


> I never said it was okay. I said if it happened, I would not be surprised. People on the internet are people on the internet. People behave differently online. To expect safe haven from/with people online, especially with the myriad of ways to be backhanded, is a little unreasonable.



Once again though...other than "privacy issues", which I do NOT believe are an issue since the SEND button was hit by those two, why would you expect everyone to be suspicious of those around them? It almost seems to me as if you are saying "hey, it's the net...people are always assholes on the net so if someone is an asshole to you on the net, then it's okay!....because it's the net". Those two were far from being strangers.....they were here A LOT. They are well known...and respected. They hit with a huge betrayal of trust to people that embraced them and thought highly of them- yeah, they thought highly of someone online. Why are you so avidly defending someone online if "online is no big deal"? Hell, why do you seem so upset by all of this? IT'S HAPPENING ONLINE, YA KNOW? 

I don't follow that line of thinking- nor will I ever. Bad behavior is bad behavior. I have done plenty of things I regret in my life. I am truly fucking sorry for those things I have done...I don't blow off the feelings of those I offended/hurt with a blase attitude of "get over it". I have apologized to people on the net- I didn't come and try to "justify" my shitty behavior as "okay if it's on the net". Get the fuck off the net if you (collective you) can't control yourself and take responsibility for your actions is my advice.
Forgiveness is given by the hurt...not by those who were not hurt saying "get over it". It's really NOT your decision/place to tell others here how they should feel....just because it's the net.

I like you, Tooz. I just have to respectfully disagree with this.


----------



## bigsexy920

They made it public - their own careless actions made it public. They are upset now that they are being called out on it. 



Asrai said:


> I have no idea what was said in those PM's but I feel the guilt is on the ones who made it public.
> 
> If this had stayed private no one would have been hurt and no one would have known.


----------



## LoveBHMS

TraciJo67 said:


> Love Dubh, LoveBHMS ...
> I spoke with both of you a few weeks ago. At the time, I didn't know what was said (nor did I feel that I needed to). At that time, both of you seemed confused as to how the information got out. One of you even wondered if a moderator could see private messages. I could empathize with the situation that you found yourselves in, because I've made caustic remarks about people that I don't like. We all have. To one degree or another, we're all bloody hypocrites. I do wish I hadn't seen the transcript, subsequently ... and it wasn't solicited by me, either.
> 
> What I'm having a hard time with is that I don't think your PM's were "raided" by anyone; in fact, I think that one of you copied your own chat transcript and then forwarded it to other people. That's what I keep thinking about: Why would you think those remarks were so clever, so worthy of forwarding on to someone else? I just keep coming back to that.
> 
> Neither of you owe me squat. I won't expect a response; I'm just honestly curious here, and it is for this reason alone that I find myself aghast and unable to be at all supportive of either of you. I don't pretend to set myself above you. I don't make fun of "cankles", but I have my own set of biases and I know that I've said mean things about people that I don't like. By the same token though, I have the sense to know ... this part of me isn't the most attractive ... I don't go out of my way to advertise it to other people. There is such a thing as ... discretion. A sense of shame. Knowing that my snarky, catty remarks aren't appropriate for an audience. I also know who my trusted friends are, and have to believe that the remarks that I make *to* them aren't going to be made public. If ever they are, I'll have to deal with that. I'm not going to self-righteously go on and on about my right to privacy (though in that case, my privacy actually *would have* been breached, since *I* didn't forward the remarks myself).
> 
> So I guess I'm wondering, why did you forward the transcript? What could you possibly have been thinking? Did you really think the remarks were worthy of posterity?



Listen, given the anger, sadness, hurt feelings, and distress this has caused, do you seriously think either of us did this on purpose?

I don't know how they got out. If one of us did so in error, it was just that, in error.

Do you _seriously_ think we wanted anybody to see that stuff? We are both truly sad and embarassed by those PMs. Both of us have said so.

I am one again deeply sorry that my personal hangups and prejudices hurt people who did not deserve it.


----------



## Wagimawr

wholeheartedly agreed with GEF. the whole "lol, internet" idea is one that needs to go away. now.


----------



## Waxwing

LoveBHMS said:


> I am one again deeply sorry that my personal hangups and prejudices hurt people who did not deserve it.



And whatever else has been said or not said, that is a genuine apology. No matter what side of this anyone is on, that's a mea culpa.

I've fucked up so many times in life, and lost friends because of it. The losing friends part I can accept, but I want to be acknowledged for having admitted wrongdoing.


----------



## Tooz

Wagimawr said:


> wholeheartedly agreed with GEF. the whole "lol, internet" idea is one that needs to go away. now.



Guess what? 4chan jokes are old.

"lol internet" and what I was saying are two different things.


----------



## Wagimawr

LoveBHMS said:


> Do you _seriously_ think we wanted anybody to see that stuff? We are both truly sad and embarassed by those PMs. Both of us have said so.
> 
> I am one again deeply sorry that my personal hangups and prejudices hurt people who did not deserve it.


really? really really?

If you honestly feel that way, that's great, and please act on it. I have to say, though, I just got a copy of the PMs (and I'm vastly aware a game of telephone may have occurred at some point), and some of the comments contained within are *really* hard to misconstrue as anything less than severe overreaction (at best) and true bigotry (at worst).


----------



## Waxwing

Tooz said:


> Guess what? 4chan jokes are old.
> 
> "lol internet" and what I was saying are two different things.



Yeah for a minute there I thought you were being accused of being a /b/tard.


----------



## Wagimawr

Tooz said:


> Guess what? 4chan jokes are old.
> 
> "lol internet" and what I was saying are two different things.


Not entirely different.

What I took you to be saying is that, for one, people act differently on the internet because of anonymity, and that's okay.

It's NOT okay, to be a pain in somebody's ass, just because you have an IP address or a user ID to hide behind. It's just not.

The whole idea of "lol, internet" is, as I understand it, that it's only the internet, and thus, any wrongdoing, hurt, or extreme positions given should be taken with a grain of salt, because it's not really people interacting.

I've never believed that. Ever.



Waxwing said:


> Yeah for a minute there I thought you were being accused of being a /b/tard.


oh god no. no no no no no. I have too much respect for Tooz EVER to say that.

It just seemed that the positions were similar.


----------



## TraciJo67

LoveBHMS said:


> Listen, given the anger, sadness, hurt feelings, and distress this has caused, do you seriously think either of us did this on purpose?
> 
> I don't know how they got out. If one of us did so in error, it was just that, in error.
> 
> Do you _seriously_ think we wanted anybody to see that stuff? We are both truly sad and embarassed by those PMs. Both of us have said so.
> 
> I am one again deeply sorry that my personal hangups and prejudices hurt people who did not deserve it.



I know that I'm harping on this, LoveBHMS, and you don't have to respond if you don't want to. Again, these comments weren't made to or about me. To that end, you don't owe me an apology or an explanation. I'm just honestly curious, because it is the issue that I keep wondering about. So, for the record, you are saying that you did NOT forward your chat transcript to someone else, and you have no idea how it was intercepted?


----------



## biodieselman

LoveBHMS said:


> Nope. That was an explanation. The apology was where I said I was sorry....



*Any* 'excuse' or 'explanation'





completely negates a perfectly good apology.


----------



## Tooz

Waxwing said:


> Yeah for a minute there I thought you were being accused of being a /b/tard.



I'm a /d/tard.


----------



## Wagimawr

Tooz said:


> I'm a /d/tard.


needs to be on a shirt.

naow.


----------



## Waxwing

Wagimawr said:


> needs to be on a shirt.
> 
> naow.



YES. I shall wear with pride.


----------



## Asrai

Tooz said:


> I'm a /d/tard.



/d/ as in Hentai/alternative? :blink:


----------



## MisticalMisty

LillyBBBW said:


> What you said here though and has been revealed was deeply hurtful and we're tired of being told that we should just shut up and face hateful speech with dignity when nobody else has to.



If anything deserves rep..it's this sentence. Thank you for saying it.


----------



## Wagimawr

Asrai said:


> /d/ as in Hentai/alternative? :blink:


what site are you on, dear sir?


----------



## Waxwing

biodieselman said:


> Any'excuse' or 'explanation'
> completely negates a perfectly good apology.



That isn't true at all. Sometimes we NEED to know the reasons behind something in order to understand someone's perspective. That doesn't mean we have to forgive, but it does mean that we can get a little broader picture of what's going on.


----------



## Sugar

MisticalMisty said:


> How it came about? One of them OBVIOUSLY thought it was HILARIOUS and decided to forward it... I don't believe the bullshit that it was forwarded by mistake.
> 
> I'm honestly dumbfounded that you are on their sides Tooz....especially after we fought so hard to make the SSBBW forum private because of bullshit like this. What they said is *INEXCUSABLE*. It's NEVER ok to attack someone as they did..private or not. As far as I'm concerned they can apologize until they are blue in the face but they will NEVER be welcomed members of this board again.
> 
> If I were a fat man, I would doubt their sincerity. If they feel this way about a fat woman and how she looks then whose to say they don't feel the same kind of disgust or shame at certain areas of a fat male body....OH wait..they want to fuck a fat man..so maybe there's the difference.
> 
> I'm so fucking pissed right now. I'm pissed at what was said, but more importantly I'm pissed that there are people DEFENDING the hideous behavior of two "Fat haters." They disrespected 2 members of the "family." They disrespected Conrad, Dimensions and everyone that is here for all the right reasons.




Thank you for making these points.


----------



## Eclectic_Girl

TraciJo67 said:


> I know that I'm harping on this, LoveBHMS, and you don't have to respond if you don't want to. Again, these comments weren't made to or about me. To that end, you don't owe me an apology or an explanation. I'm just honestly curious, because it is the issue that I keep wondering about. So, for the record, you are saying that you did NOT forward your chat transcript to someone else, and you have no idea how it was intercepted?




TraciJo, I believe that Ginny said (many, many, *many *pages ago) that the PM exchange was accidentally forwarded to someone. So, one of the participants mistyped a name or something, maybe?


----------



## Asrai

Wagimawr said:


> what site are you on, dear sir?



Gah, I'm stupid. :doh:

And no I'm not a /b/tard, I'm only there for the Traditional games board. :blush:


----------



## Famouslastwords

nvm I'm not supposed to say that.


----------



## superodalisque

i have to say honestly that i love dims. i have a LOT of beautiful friends here. i'd die if it suddenly disappeared one day. many great things come out of it. i've seen so many people grow and change in a positive direction, making daily improvements little by little. people here have taught me a lot about how to be a better person. it has influenced me toward looking inward and learning about myself and what that means in relation to everything else. but i have to say that i'm very shocked that at times out of the entire world composed of human beings often the least accepting people of fellow fatties bar none are other dims members. 

the things we say and do to each other and ourselves are really amazingly damaging sometimes--not just to each other but also to ourselves. someone said to me earlier today that thats just people. thats very true. but, you would think that people who share similar concerns, or have people that they love who do, would have made some kind of personal adjustment by now. and also being just people we need to push ourselves to improve so that we don't remain just one of the ugly mob until the day we die. 

everyone does have a right to how they feel and should be able to say that privately. but if you can look at another human being and be truly disgusted it makes me wonder if you are mentally all there. especially if you are that thing, or love that thing in someone else. it kind of reminds me of a klansman who happens to be in love with a black woman. there is something seriously wrong with the contradiction. its a very unhealthy and dishonest one. not regarding anyone else but regarding yourself. 

usually when we feel disgust it doesn't really have much to do with the other person. its that they have held up some kind of a mirror to something that we fear within ourselves. we look though a glass darkly at the worst parts of ourselves that we fear. do we hate ourselves for being fat? do we disgust ourselves? or maybe we really want to be fat and don't have the personal or social courage to be that or admit that? --sometimes. maybe we are living out our fat fantasy through the body of another? though we look protective we are in the the end the one who is truly weak because we can only admire the thing we truly wish to be? maybe we need to let all of that fear and hatred go and remember to be human even in our most private moments? i'm trying to do that myself and when i do manage its very satisfying.

with love


----------



## Tooz

Asrai said:


> /d/ as in Hentai/alternative? :blink:



Yes. /d/ as in Hentai/Alternative.


----------



## Risible

Waxwing said:


> That isn't true at all. Sometimes we NEED to know the reasons behind something in order to understand someone's perspective. That doesn't mean we have to forgive, but it does mean that we can get a little broader picture of what's going on.



Wouldn't reasons go something like this: "I said that because ... I hate Ginny"? Or "Fat people disgust me"? Or "That dress is a tent and I would rather cut off a limb than be big enough to wear it"? Or "Seriously, beyond a certain weight they just need to have WLS"?

Those are reasons, Waxwing, and while they are antithetical here on Dims, they're definitely valid reasons according to most of our fat-hating society.

I already see the broader picture; they're fat bigots.


----------



## Waxwing

Risible said:


> Wouldn't reasons go something like this: "I said that because ... I hate Ginny"? Or "Fat people disgust me"? Or "That dress is a tent and I would rather cut off a limb than be big enough to wear it"? Or "Seriously, beyond a certain weight they just need to have WLS"?
> 
> Those are reasons, Waxwing, and while they are antithetical here on Dims, they're definitely valid reasons according to most of our fat-hating society.
> 
> I already see the broader picture; they're fat bigots.



No, and that's not what I meant. If someone has a view that we find objectionable, it can be valid to look at what has happened in their lives to contribute to that. In no way does that make the view more palatable or more right.


----------



## Tychondarova

I am both a fat man, and a man who loves fat women.

Damn, this is the only place I belong!

LOVE LIVE DIMENSIONS!


----------



## Lamia

Blackjack said:


> I'd just like to express a general
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> towards the drama.



I'm here because i heard sometimes people post pictures of Worf and he is effing hot. He's name should be Woof!! get it Woof...Worf...cuz he's hot .....no?


----------



## LillyBBBW

Waxwing said:


> No, and that's not what I meant. If someone has a view that we find objectionable, it can be valid to look at what has happened in their lives to contribute to that. In no way does that make the view more palatable or more right.



I believe that this reasoning falls under, "Consider the source." Sometimes these things say much more about the speaker than it does about the subject and I think it's wise not to lose sight of that for perspective. It's not meant to be an excuse for the perpetrator.


----------



## Waxwing

LillyBBBW said:


> I believe that this reasoning falls under, "Consider the source." Sometimes these things say much more about the speaker than it does about the subject and I think it's wise not to lose sight of that for perspective. It's not meant to be an excuse for the perpetrator.



Exactly. Thank you-- that expressed it far better than I did. It's like that very simplistic thing our moms used to say, "oh they're just jealous." Even though that always felt like cold comfort, the sentiment behind it wasn't too far off.

Sometimes people's own feelings, insecurities, or angers make them lash out. It's not an excuse, but it does provide for some perspective.


----------



## Santaclear

Eclectic_Girl said:


> TraciJo, I believe that Ginny said (many, many, *many *pages ago) that the PM exchange was accidentally forwarded to someone. So, one of the participants mistyped a name or something, maybe?



That was what I heard. That one of the Loves was pm-ing another forum member and mistakenly forwarded this exchange, and that the other forum member circulated it.


----------



## Mini

See, I still don't get it. Can we all honestly say that we've never been fucking cruel at someone else's expense? I've been a right prick in the past. I can admit it. 

Hell, for the sake of fuck it, I'll just say it now: I don't believe in special treatment for BBWs, BHMs, SSBBWs, SSBHMs, et al. I don't expect special accommodations for my height, and I would argue that I'm less responsible for it than most are for their weight. I believe that people should be free to present themselves and comport themselves however they wish, but goddammit, there's a difference between "discrimination" and "enough is enough." You have to draw the line somewhere.

Maire and Loves are good people who made the admittedly stupid mistake of revealing that they're human. CRUCIFY THEM.

Maybe I'm missing the point. Who knows.


----------



## Asrai

Damn, dim's just turned into a lynchmob. :huh:

And why the fuck are you attacking Tooz all of a sudden?

You people seriously need to chill.


----------



## LillyBBBW

And the prickery just gets better and better.


----------



## Tina

The point is, Mini, we can hear that kind of bullshit about ourselves anywhere. We don't need to see it _here_. I've always felt that what someone thinks about me is their own business unless they choose to make it mine. I have heard from several different sources now that either Maire or Loves sent it out themselves -- I received it somewhere down the line. What's true? What's not true? I have no idea, but it does seem that they did write those things, and whether it was sent out purposely or accidentally, it's good to know there's a worm in the apple before you bite into it, so privacy, schmivacy. We all need to take responsibility for what we say and do.

So yeah, they feel as they do about fat people, fine. Disappointing, but fine, it's their opinions. But why do it here, using this software to say such things? Again, we can find that ignorant crap a million different places. We expect better, and rightly so, here.


----------



## AnnMarie

Issues that took place on a closed forum are NOT open for discussion here - period. 

/mod


----------



## Suze

this is all so sad


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

LillyBBBW said:


> And the prickery just gets better and better.



Amazing isn't it??:doh:


----------



## Asrai

AnnMarie said:


> Issues that took place on a closed forum are NOT open for discussion here - period.
> 
> /mod



But issues from *private* messages are? :doh:


----------



## MisticalMisty

Mini said:


> See, I still don't get it. Can we all honestly say that we've never been fucking cruel at someone else's expense? I've been a right prick in the past. I can admit it.
> 
> Hell, for the sake of fuck it, I'll just say it now: I don't believe in special treatment for BBWs, BHMs, SSBBWs, SSBHMs, et al. I don't expect special accommodations for my height, and I would argue that I'm less responsible for it than most are for their weight. I believe that people should be free to present themselves and comport themselves however they wish, but goddammit, there's a difference between "discrimination" and "enough is enough." You have to draw the line somewhere.
> 
> Maire and Donna are good people who made the admittedly stupid mistake of revealing that they're human. CRUCIFY THEM.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing the point. Who knows.



You are totally missing the point Michael. Dimensions is a safe place for fat people and those that admire fat people. The things that these 2 said were more than cruel..AND they were uttered in a place that's supposed to be a safe haven. That's why the mods work so diligently to keep bullshit like that from threads all over the boards. It's sickening to have 2 "esteemed" members of our "family" be so...horrible. 

I'm going to say this..and may feel the wrath..but you will NEVER understand. If you've never been fat..and faced what we face daily..you will never understand.

So yes, you are missing the point.


----------



## NancyGirl74

Mini said:


> Maybe I'm missing the point. Who knows.



Mini, let me go to the Tall Dudes Rock Forum, befriend them, and then rip them a new one behind their back only to be discovered. If you don't think the tall dudes are going to be hurt you are fooling yourself. Yes, people make mistakes and yes, people are allowed to be assholes. But don't forget I'm allowed to defend myself and I'm allowed to be pissed and hurt and above all I'm allowed to voice my feelings...especially, ESPECIALLY when someone's abusive words have hurt those I care about.


----------



## Tina

When one of the people writing the private messages sends it out to someone else, yeah.


----------



## MisticalMisty

AnnMarie said:


> Issues that took place on a closed forum are NOT open for discussion here - period.
> 
> /mod



I'm sorry! I think I started that here.


----------



## Ash

NancyGirl74 said:


> But don't forget I'm allowed to defend myself and I'm allowed to be pissed and hurt and above all I'm allowed to voice my feelings...especially, ESPECIALLY when someone's abusive words have hurt those I care about.



Quoted for emphasis.


----------



## saucywench

A simple review by each of their Sent Items box would explain it all, no?


----------



## Asrai

MisticalMisty said:


> You are totally missing the point Michael. Dimensions is a safe place for fat people and those that admire fat people. The things that these 2 said were more than cruel..AND they were uttered in a place that's supposed to be a safe haven. That's why the mods work so diligently to keep bullshit like that from threads all over the boards. It's sickening to have 2 "esteemed" members of our "family" be so...horrible.
> 
> I'm going to say this..and may feel the wrath..but you will NEVER understand. If you've never been fat..and faced what we face daily..you will never understand.
> 
> So yes, you are missing the point.



Been fat all my life and still support Mini 100%

If you people have such a hard time accepting people's views I'm seriously doubting your fat "pride".


----------



## Waxwing

saucywench said:


> A simple review by each of their Sent Items box would explain it all, no?



You have to be joking.


----------



## Wagimawr

Asrai said:


> If you people have such a hard time accepting people's views I'm seriously doubting your fat "pride".


That doesn't even make sense.


----------



## NancyGirl74

I don't know whether to laugh or cry or to sit stunned....I think I'll just sit stunned for a while and then I'll laugh.


----------



## AnnMarie

Waxwing said:


> You have to be joking.



I think she just meant if they were confused, they could look in their own history to see how it happened.... not suggesting that someone else do so... and that is not possible - to be clear. 

NO ONE CAN SEE OTHERS PMS UNLESS THEY SEND THEM OUT THEMSELVES. Mods have no ability to see/read/intercept/look up PMs - none at all, it's not even in the admin CP - it's not an available function on our board software. 

Period.


----------



## MisticalMisty

Asrai said:


> Been fat all my life and still support Mini 100%
> 
> If you people have such a hard time accepting people's views I'm seriously doubting your fat "pride".



Fat pride? Let me get this straight..I'm supposed to sit back and allow people to attack people I have befriended and admire? I'm supposed to just show my fat pride and say it's ok to say those cruel things because I'm proud to be fat.

Let me tell you this. DAMN STRAIGHT I'm proud to be fat. DAMN STRAIGHT I'm proud that I've made many friends in this community and I'll be DAMNED if I let someone attack anyone that I care for and sit on the sidelines. Support Mini, that's fine. That doesn't make either one of you right.


----------



## Famouslastwords

Asrai said:


> Been fat all my life and still support Mini 100%
> 
> If you people have such a hard time accepting people's views I'm seriously doubting your fat "pride".



Have you even read the goddamn PM? If not. Well... you don't really have a say here do you?


----------



## Asrai

Wagimawr said:


> That doesn't even make sense.



If they were proud of themselves they wouldn't crack from the comments of two anonymous posters on a messageboard.


----------



## Eclectic_Girl

Asrai said:


> If you people have such a hard time accepting people's views I'm seriously doubting your fat "pride".



Bullshit. I've had people trying to make me adopt their "views" about my body all my life, and I'm now at the point where I have enough pride to tell them where to cram it. That's part of where the vitriol in this thread is coming from - a bunch of people who will not stand to let themselves or their friends get picked on any more are rising up and telling the fat bigots that they can cram it.


----------



## Wagimawr

Asrai said:


> If they were proud of themselves they wouldn't crack from the comments of two anonymous posters on a messageboard.


If you're proud of yourself, you demand respect. That's all this is about: respect, trust, and how a lot of things have come crashing down.


----------



## NancyGirl74

MisticalMisty said:


> Fat pride? Let me get this straight..I'm supposed to sit back and allow people to attack people I have befriended and admire? I'm supposed to just show my fat pride and say it's ok to say those cruel things because I'm proud to be fat.
> 
> Let me tell you this. DAMN STRAIGHT I'm proud to be fat. DAMN STRAIGHT I'm proud that I've made many friends in this community and I'll be DAMNED if I let someone attack anyone that I care for and sit on the sidelines. Support Mini, that's fine. That doesn't make either one of you right.



I love you, Misty. I would rep you but I can't until around 3am. :bow:


----------



## Asrai

Famouslastwords said:


> Have you even read the goddamn PM? If not. Well... you don't really have a say here do you?



Nope, just judging you all from the pieces of scrap I've gleaned from this thread. 

Though I wouldn't mind reading it.


----------



## Chimpi

Isn't this getting a little out of hand?
In overview of this thread, it's steadily going downward, highlighting some severe insults and rude behavior.

I'll go join Nancy on the stunned couch.


----------



## Tooz

I will admit that it depresses me to realise that people I was excited to see at Memorial Day I am now a little nervous about. :\


----------



## Tina

Frankly, I suggest putting Asrai on ignore. S/he deserves no attention, IMO.


AnnMarie said:


> I think she just meant if they were confused, they could look in their own history to see how it happened.... not suggesting that someone else do so... and that is not possible - to be clear.
> 
> NO ONE CAN SEE OTHERS PMS UNLESS THEY SEND THEM OUT THEMSELVES. Mods have no ability to see/read/intercept/look up PMs - none at all, it's not even in the admin CP - it's not an available function on our board software.
> 
> Period.


And to add to that, not even Conrad can read PMs. 

For those who think PMs are not private, believe me, Conrad wouldn't even if he could, as the man tries to avoid drama.


----------



## NancyGirl74

Chimpi said:


> I'll go join Nancy on the stunned couch.



How about bringing some popcorn? :happy:


----------



## Santaclear

Mini said:


> See, I still don't get it. Can we all honestly say that we've never been fucking cruel at someone else's expense? I've been a right prick in the past. I can admit it.
> 
> Hell, for the sake of fuck it, I'll just say it now: I don't believe in special treatment for BBWs, BHMs, SSBBWs, SSBHMs, et al. I don't expect special accommodations for my height, and I would argue that I'm less responsible for it than most are for their weight. I believe that people should be free to present themselves and comport themselves however they wish, but goddammit, there's a difference between "discrimination" and "enough is enough." You have to draw the line somewhere.
> 
> Maire and Donna are good people who made the admittedly stupid mistake of revealing that they're human. CRUCIFY THEM.
> 
> Maybe I'm missing the point. Who knows.



I've had opinions about this drama but I haven't been posting about it. The reason is I think those who are offended have the right to be feel as offended as they are. The argument that "everyone's been fucking cruel at someone's expense" doesn't hold for me.

I wasn't so much offended by the exchanges between the two Loves as _shocked_ - to learn that that's how they really think. Both of them had put up a good front. I was surprised that one of them was so stupid as to mistakenly send it to someone else. But I feel the women who really feel hurt by it have the right to feel as they do - it's not for us to say.


----------



## Chimpi

NancyGirl74 said:


> How about bringing some popcorn? :happy:



I hope a Large, extra-buttery, salted bag is alright with you. Cuz that's how I roll.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Asrai said:


> If they were proud of themselves they wouldn't crack from the comments of two anonymous posters on a messageboard.



Fuck that. Fuck it hard too. Pride doesn't mean I'm supposed to just tra la la along while people piss on my head. You can do whatever you want but I'm going to stick up for myself as a human being and that's where my pride takes me.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

It takes a lot to leave me speechless. But this thread has done it. I need to say 2 things.

No, you will NEVER understand why this is so hurtful if you have never been fat.

Let's not lash out at each other.

I really have nothing else to say. Night folks I need a break.


----------



## Tina

I think that whomever Asrai is, they just want to stir things up even more. I tend to just swat gnats away, personally.


----------



## MisticalMisty

Santaclear said:


> I've had opinions about this drama but I haven't been posting about it. The reason is I think those who are offended have the right to be feel as offended as they are. The argument that "everyone's been fucking cruel at someone's expense" doesn't hold for me.
> 
> I wasn't so much offended by the exchanges between the two Loves as _shocked_ - to learn that that's how they really think. Both of them had put up a good front. I was surprised that one of them was so stupid as to mistakenly send it to someone else. But I feel the women who really feel hurt by it have the right to feel as they do - it's not for us to say.



Thank you Santa. The comments weren't directed at me, but that doesn't mean that I don't feel the maliciousness of them. I hurt for the people they were directed at..I hurt that they had to read that crap..and I'm hurt that people are trying to say that we aren't entitled to our feelings.

Thank you for your post


----------



## NancyGirl74

Chimpi said:


> I hope a Large, extra-buttery, salted bag is alright with you. Cuz that's how I roll.



MMM works for me...but I'm the fat one, let me do the rollin'





Sorry, lame joke but I'm ready to move on from stunned to laughing.


----------



## bigsexy920

I happen to know that Nancy likes regular M&M's and the crunch bite chocolate things  

Im the salty buttery popcorn girl  



NancyGirl74 said:


> MMM works for me...but I'm the fat one, let me do the rollin'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, lame joke but I'm ready to move on from stunned to laughing.


----------



## Chimpi

NancyGirl74 said:


> MMM works for me...but I'm the fat one, let me do the rollin'



I'm fat, too. I might even give you a run for your roll(s).
Lame jokes aside, rolling is more fun when it's rolled up with goodness.
Like being fat. And rolling.
Period.

....
I think the butter might be useful outside of the popcorn.


How's that for a lame joke?


----------



## Famouslastwords

This just in, Justin (haha just in, Justin) says I do in fact have cankles.

Wow, I must be disgusting.


----------



## Wagimawr

I don't believe you. Prove it.


----------



## Famouslastwords

I will! Just you wait Henry Higgins.


----------



## Wagimawr

Just started a thread:
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=40650


----------



## bigsexy920

I hope this thread gets the lock down. Too much hurt really - all has been said - time to move on.


----------



## NancyGirl74

Join us on the buttery, salty, popcorn, chocolate thingie, stunned, laughing couch, Berna.


----------



## TraciJo67

Santaclear said:


> I've had opinions about this drama but I haven't been posting about it. The reason is I think those who are offended have the right to be feel as offended as they are. The argument that "everyone's been fucking cruel at someone's expense" doesn't hold for me.
> 
> I wasn't so much offended by the exchanges between the two Loves as _shocked_ - to learn that that's how they really think. Both of them had put up a good front. I was surprised that one of them was so stupid as to mistakenly send it to someone else. But I feel the women who really feel hurt by it have the right to feel as they do - it's not for us to say.



Agreed.

I don't feel hurt by it, because I refuse to let strangers have that much power over me. I am not judging those who do -- especially not the intended targets. And just so we're clear, I wasn't excusing *anyone* (including myself) by saying that we're all cruel, so let's let them off the hook. It's nasty, cruel behavior ... and it is nasty, cruel behavior when *I* indulge in it, or when anyone else does. I just happen to believe that to one extent or another, we all indulge. I absolutely know that it is true of some of the people who are, this very moment, outraged by LovesBHMS & Love Dubh's remarks. I know it, because they've made snide remarks about other people *to me*. Does it make it any better that it wasn't fat-bashing? That it was, for example, pointing out a perceived character flaw in someone? Or poking fun at someone's fashion choices? 

The point is (at least to me), the remarks *did* get out. The parties involved weren't discreet enough. At least one of them copied, pasted, and then FORWARDED the remarks to someone else who hadn't been involved in the conversation. Whether she intended to forward it to the person who then leaked it isn't the issue ... the fact remains that she hit the 'send' button, and she has to own that responsibility. She cannot hide behind a claim to privacy. When she made the conscious choice to send her own words to someone else, she lost a right to that claim. 

I would have more empathy for both of them if they'd have simply acknowledged that they made a terrible mistake, apologized profusely, and then quietly sat back to see if there was going to be a chance to redeem themselves. Instead, I watched them both make snide remarks in their avatars, snide remarks to other people, and excuses for why they said what they did. 

Finally, there is the nature of the remarks. This isn't about a general dislike for two people. The remarks are themselves indicative of a deep loathing for very fat people in general. I have to wonder, if they feel this way, why *do* they belong to Dims?


----------



## Tina

I think that we can all lock it down ourselves, that it shouldn't have to be locked. We all can decide where we will draw the line for ourselves, and that those who are only out to provoke should be ignored and not given the power to keep turn things even uglier than this already is. 

I don't think we should need to be saved from ourselves.[/mod]


----------



## bigsexy920

I guess for me it is the train wreck thing. I cant stop watching it. But I'll try


----------



## Tina

I understand, Berna, truly. 

But personally, and as a mod, I feel that if this thread has to be locked because of back and forth nastiness, it makes the initial subject even worse. It also allows someone who only wants to be divisive to claim a sort of victory.


----------



## SummerG

Asrai said:


> If they were proud of themselves they wouldn't crack from the comments of two anonymous posters on a messageboard.



This is not someone getting upset because someone they didn't know from adam posted an anti-fat blog for the world to see. These two posters are *not* anonymous. They have befriended people beyond the pixels of an online forum. They have attended events, they have smiled through their own disgust and have deceived many. That they were found out and people are now able to make judgment on if they remain friends with them is completely personal. Lessons learned, I believe on both sides.


----------



## saucywench

AnnMarie said:


> I think she just meant if they were confused, they could look in their own history to see how it happened.... not suggesting that someone else do so... and that is not possible - to be clear.


Yes, of course that is what I meant. But of course, you, AnnMarie, an astute, logical, and well-reasoned person (among others here), would know that without question.


----------



## Waxwing

saucywench said:


> Yes, of course that is what I meant. But of course, you, AnnMarie, an astute, logical, and well-reasoned person (among others here), would know that without question.



Jesus I'm sorry. I misinterpreted. This has all been a little confusing so forgive me if I misread one sentence.


----------



## Tooz

Waxwing said:


> Jesus I'm sorry. I misinterpreted. This has all been a little confusing so forgive me if I misread one sentence.



No, see, this whole thing has massive collateral damage.


----------



## rainyday

Ivy said:


> Does that mean they should be black listed forever...?



In a word, yes. Resoundingly yes.

Nevermind banning. Now that their true colors are known, why would anyone want to continue to respond to their posts anyway? Once spotted, one doesn't step in a pile of steaming shit. One steps over it.


----------



## Tooz

missaf said:


> Especially with the defense of deplorable behavior.



Wow. I can't even think of anything else to say that won't get me banned.


----------



## LoveBHMS

TraciJo67 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I don't feel hurt by it, because I refuse to let strangers have that much power over me. I am not judging those who do -- especially not the intended targets. And just so we're clear, I wasn't excusing *anyone* (including myself) by saying that we're all cruel, so let's let them off the hook. It's nasty, cruel behavior ... and it is nasty, cruel behavior when *I* indulge in it, or when anyone else does. I just happen to believe that to one extent or another, we all indulge. I absolutely know that it is true of some of the people who are, this very moment, outraged by LovesBHMS & Love Dubh's remarks. I know it, because they've made snide remarks about other people *to me*. Does it make it any better that it wasn't fat-bashing? That it was, for example, pointing out a perceived character flaw in someone? Or poking fun at someone's fashion choices?
> 
> The point is (at least to me), the remarks *did* get out. The parties involved weren't discreet enough. At least one of them copied, pasted, and then FORWARDED the remarks to someone else who hadn't been involved in the conversation. Whether she intended to forward it to the person who then leaked it isn't the issue ... the fact remains that she hit the 'send' button, and she has to own that responsibility. She cannot hide behind a claim to privacy. When she made the conscious choice to send her own words to someone else, she lost a right to that claim.
> 
> I would have more empathy for both of them if they'd have simply acknowledged that they made a terrible mistake, apologized profusely, and then quietly sat back to see if there was going to be a chance to redeem themselves. Instead, I watched them both make snide remarks in their avatars, snide remarks to other people, and excuses for why they said what they did.
> 
> Finally, there is the nature of the remarks. This isn't about a general dislike for two people. The remarks are themselves indicative of a deep loathing for very fat people in general. I have to wonder, if they feel this way, why *do* they belong to Dims?



For the last time.

Given that both LD and I have said we are deeply sorry and embarassed by this, neither of us intentionally forwarded the PMs to anyone.

We both sat back and said nothing but that was not enough.

We each issued apologies. I issued a second one as well as numerous very detailed and personal PMs to people I knew I had offended.

Neither of us wanted this to happen. We both feel awful. We both admit that and we have each gone into detail in private about where our feelings are.

The collateral damage done is sad. I once again deeply regret that my own personal bias and prejudice has hurt people who trusted me. 

I'm sorry.


----------



## butch

LoveBHMS said:


> For the last time.
> 
> Given that both LD and I have said we are deeply sorry and embarassed by this, neither of us intentionally forwarded the PMs to anyone.
> 
> We both sat back and said nothing but that was not enough.
> 
> We each issued apologies. I issued a second one as well as numerous very detailed and personal PMs to people I knew I had offended.
> 
> Neither of us wanted this to happen. We both feel awful. We both admit that and we have each gone into detail in private about where our feelings are.
> 
> The collateral damage done is sad. I once again deeply regret that my own personal bias and prejudice has hurt people who trusted me.
> 
> I'm sorry.



Look, no matter how hurt and angry I am about the whole thing, i do appreciate this apology. I may not be able to accept it right now (and of course, I'm only one person, so does it even matter if I accept it or not? Who knows?), but I am grateful to read this.


----------



## Asrai

missaf said:


> That's not the point. The apology doesn't negate the fact you are two-faced and deceptive and don't truly belong here because the vision of what this place is has gone way over your head. And a half-assed apology wouldn't cut it in my book, but it might for those whom you have offended.



Are you asking for them to be punished?

What forum rule did they break?


----------



## Tooz

missaf said:


> That's not the point. The apology doesn't negate the fact you are two-faced and deceptive and don't truly belong here because the vision of what this place is has gone way over your head. And a half-assed apology wouldn't cut it in my book, but it might for those whom you have offended.



How do you know it's half-assed? I mean, I don't know that it's NOT half-assed really, all I have to go on is internet conversations, but it does look like she is trying to beg forgiveness. For you to toss it away without even considering it is really an awful thing in itself.


Before I get bitched at again, I'll say it for the seemingly millionth time:

Not defending the actions, more disagreeing with the sort of witch trial thing. Can't deny that the similarities are eerie. People who don't side with the mob get the ...lake! I guess.


----------



## elle camino

i may not have cankles or be an SSBBW, but i am fat and i do have a huge belly. 
and i've seen several people (in just the last few days, no less) say IN PUBLIC on this board that they think large bellies on women are unattractive and unfeminine. 
to which i say: so the fuck WHAT. for one, i'm grownup enough to know that i'm not ever going to be everyone's cup of tea, and that this board is just as much for people who don't like my particular body type as it is for people who like it a lot. and for two, if i'm really down in the dumps about what some random stranger thinks about my gut, i can always hop right over to one of the 500 billion 'BELLIES ARE SO FANTASTIC' threads on the weight board and elsewhere on dims. 

so, in light of that, i think what the loves have said in this thread, and the way they've apologized to those offended and hurt by this, is perfectly adequate. on a personal note, i know lovesBHMS quite well, and i _know_ she doesn't hate bbws, ssbbws, ssssssssbbws, or anything like that. she's human, and she made a mistake, and she's taken her licks as a result. but this lord of the flies BS needs to stop, imo. they're not monsters, they're not traitors, they're not people who've claimed to fap themselves into comas over cankles in public while secretly circulating internet meme cankle photos to pro-ana communities on livejournal or whatever other hysterical conjecture's been flying around in this thread. they're good people who fucked up, and _you_ don't have to forgive them if you don't want, but many of us have and would like to just move along.


----------



## ripley

This goes beyond not finding cankles aesthetically appealing. It goes beyond not liking a specific individual and being catty or snarky about it in PM. What it is, plain and simple, is hatred and disgust of fat women. 


*I cannot, will not, ever, under ANY circumstance, accept that. * 


I don't care if LovesBHMs does in fact love BHMs. I don't care if love dubh had us in a petri dish for a scientific endeavor about subcultures. I don't care if they've befriended a couple of the "cooler" fat girls among us. I don't care if "in real life" they aren't like this. (I'm living this, so it's "real life" to me, so I don't really get that anyway.) The fact is that I liked LovesBHMs. I found some of her posts...edgy, and got whiffs of some views I didn't agree with, but we PM'd a little and I gave her the benefit of the doubt. I was fooled. She actually told me that she defended SSBBW to another thin member of this board who was anti-fat in "real life"...and I thanked her for it. How much of a fake hypocrite was she? She knew enough to portray herself one way to me, a fat person, but another to people she knew would be sympathetic to her fat hatred. They both knew enough to portray themselves as "allies" on the boards when they are obviously not, if they want the very fat women among us to be "directed immediately to the WLS threads" for having cankles, or for having to shop in specialized stores for clothes.



You reap what you sow.


----------



## MisticalMisty

elle camino said:


> so, in light of that, i think what the loves have said in this thread, and the way they've apologized to those offended and hurt by this, is perfectly adequate. on a personal note, i know lovesBHMS quite well, and i _know_ she doesn't hate bbws, ssbbws, ssssssssbbws, or anything like that. she's human, and she made a mistake, and she's taken her licks as a result. but this lord of the flies BS needs to stop, imo. they're not monsters, they're not traitors, they're not people who've claimed to fap themselves into comas over cankles in public while secretly circulating internet meme cankle photos to pro-ana communities on livejournal or whatever other hysterical conjecture's been flying around in this thread. they're good people who fucked up, and _you_ don't have to forgive them if you don't want, but many of us have and would like to just move along.


I'm glad that you can forgive and move on...but what was said in the conversation between the two was fat bigotry...no ifs ands or buts about it. So, to your face she may be your best friend, I love people of size kinda person...but it's obvious by what was written that she has other thoughts/feelings behind closed doors. 

If you think the ONLY offensive thing about that exchange was about cankles..then you've missed the point entirely. 

They may be forgiven, but their words will never, ever be forgotten. If you're able to keep a friendship with someone who behaves in such a manner, so be it. Don't expect the rest of us to follow suit. 

I've lost any respect that I had for either of them...and some respect of those that have supported and made excuses for what they've said. This has more to do with being the person you present yourself to be..than all the cankles on this board combined.


----------



## elle camino

ok guys we know! you're really hurt, you're not forgiving them, you're done! loud and clear!
but please understand that this is all in the eye of the beholder, and not everyone's reaction will be the same as yours. this 'either you hate them or you hate us' shit is just pretty absurd.


----------



## JayInBuff

I'm very new to Dimensions so I'm not going to get involved in something I don't know a lot about. I just want to say that I was very excited to find a place where I thought I could express my love of larger women without worrying about being judged for it. I am "out" but you never know what kind of reaction you're going to get. I was also amazed that there weren't any infiltrators that would sign up and then bash, like I see on YouTube, Yahoo questions, etc. Well I've been here about a month and this is the first I've seen. I know it is from people who many trusted/befriended but I am still impressed with the positives that I have seen and plan on staying. Maybe after the next month I'll change my mind


----------



## moore2me

swordchick said:


> I think it is more hurtful to add racial slurs to mix to make an excuse for what was done.
> 
> So I guess it is now acceptable to use racial slurs in Dimensions, especially to make a point.





LoveBHMS said:


> It's been said if you live in a racist society, you're a racist.
> 
> All you with black friends...I'm willing to bet some of you say [deleted]. As i've said to those with whom i've spoken privately, "in private, many people [use racial slurs]." I'm willing to bet that includes some of you. You ever get cut off in traffic by somebody with dark skin and bitch about terrorists?
> 
> I guess if you live in an anti-fat society, you're anti fat. Nobody on this board does not have prejudices. Thos prejudices come from a variety of places, both social and personal. To anyone who's ever considered, or had WLS...how come? To anyone who's tried to lose weight...why bother? So to quote "Casablanca", you're all shocked, SHOCKED that somebody here could have a negative attitude towards a fat person?
> 
> Blacks can be racist, fat people can be anti-fat, and yeah, FFA's can also have some anti-fat attitudes. Color me stunned.
> 
> *Moores comment: I think playing the race card is just trying to change the subject to throw the "hounds off" of the perpetrators track. It is a desperate measure that is a last ditch effort to save their hide from what has become an angry crowd. *
> 
> 
> I don't need to shore up my FFA creds. I sure as fuck don't have 2000 posts because i've got nothing better to do than sit around here luring fatties into my emotional lair. The people on this board who know me in real life or with whom I have close online friendships know what i'm about. I'm willing to bet i've been naked with more fat people than most of you have.
> 
> *I doubt it. I take water aerobics and we ladies all change in the womens locker room at the gym. I have been going there for about three years now for three days a week. We put our swimsuits on before class, take a shower, and take our suits off and shower after class & then put on dry clothes. There are approximately 45 older ladies in my class. If you asked them, I bet 75% would say they were fat. So, that's an estimated 864 changes of clothes and showers with approximately 34 "fat" ladies. Plus, I have been married to a fat man for 28 years, so that's 9968 nights of sleeping together. You do the math. *
> 
> The people to whom i've chosen to extend more personal explanations understand where I'm coming from.
> 
> Somebody called me a hypocrite. I'm an FFA and i'm into fetish stuff. I have a zillion posts about both of those things. Not one single person on this board has received personal communication or compliments from me that were anything but sincere.
> 
> Several posters on here have mentioned that their friends don't see them as fat. They dont' get it because they're like...they can see my size. The thing is, when you get to know people as PEOPLE, the exterior stuff goes away. When I see my friend Ivy I see "cute glasses, cool hair, fashion student" I don't think "fat chick". When I talk to Tooz I think "fluffy cat, interested in Japan, from Buffalo." I don't think of her as 'fat person' and that has nothing to do with her size. Similarly, if I believe a person is mean, judgemental, rude or prejudiced, I may just think "fat bitch". The VERY SAME WAY many of you are thinking of me as a thin (well, average sized) bitch.
> 
> But to quote the "Breakfast Club"..."people screw up, we screwed up, the difference is, we got caught." If everyone on Dims who'd said nasty shit in private about people's bodies, behaviour, and yeah...clothing got banned, nobody would be left here. Maybe if people worried more about the proverbial planks in their eyes, they'd be less worried about motes of dust in ours.
> 
> Before I close, a word about gender. One poster here said "I think women should be as fat as possible and men should be as lean and muscular as possible." Does that bother anyone? If you're unsure, check out the "Hot Boys" thread in the Lounge. Most if not all of those guys are thin. So right here on Dims, women are exclaiming over the hot thin dudes. Still with me? Any SSBBW/BBW who's expressed a preference for a smaller partner or who 'likes the contrast', you all know that fat guys read these boards. Fat guys with the same insecurities about their bodies that you all have.
> 
> *I have been married to a fat man as I stated previously (altho he, like myself, wasn't quite as fat when we first married). As for a preference for hot thin dudes, I have a Brad Pitt fetish, and to quote the late Carlton Heston, "you will have to pry my cold, dead, hands (off my Brad Pitt)."*






rainyday said:


> Nevermind banning. Now that their true colors are known, why would anyone want to continue to respond to their posts anyway? Once spotted, one doesn't step in a pile of steaming shit. One steps over it.



*If my dog poops in my house, I will clean it up - not step over it. Then somebody is going to get a spanking and kicked out of the house (unless they are sick or can be incarcerated).*


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

nothin' going on here. 

I suck at cutting it out, apparently.


----------



## elle camino

hahah ok, sweetpea. feel better now?

maybe read the part of that post where i said i'm fine with strangers talking shit about my body. and since we're publicizing PMs with total disregard for the ensuing awkwardness for everyone else: i'm fine with strangers talking shit about how i _feel about_ my body, at the end of the day. because as we've gone over: what the fuck do they know anyways? 
i mean i appreciate the laffs, but in the future if you're really having trouble letting go of a meaningless private spat between you and i in the past, let's keep it classy and off the board, mkay?


----------



## Angel

First, I'm here because I'm a woman who happens to be fat. When I first discovered Dimensions it was the first 'place' I had ever heard of where fat people were viewed as equals and were not seen as having something wrong with them. Finally I had found a 'place' where others could see my intelligence and spirit without being blinded by the fact that I was so fat. Those that have been fat their entire lives know that sometimes that is all some people choose to see. No matter how intelligent, talented, creative, or successful, all they choose to see is what they find repulsive. To one degree or another most fat people have felt at sometime in their life that no matter what they do, or no matter how hard they try, to some people we will never be viewed as 'good enough' or viewed as 'equals'. We all want to believe that Dimensions is indeed a safe haven for fat people and their admirers. Maybe it's just a false sense of security, though. We know how cruel the real would can sometimes be, but we don't expect to be served a hefty plate of the same cruelness here. Sure we know that trolls take their jabs from time to time, but we never expect those we have accepted as family or friends to inflict the deepest of wounds. 





Mini said:


> Can we all honestly say that we've never been fucking cruel at someone else's expense?



I can, Mini. You see, I was raised by parents who taught me that it was unacceptable to ever make fun of anyone for any reason. We were taught that it is unacceptable to ever ridicule anyone for any reason. We were even taught to never call anyone 'dumb' or 'stupid'. 

You want to know why?

Some adults, regardless of their education, realize that not everyone is the same and that not everyone has the same abilities or potential. There are some individuals who apply themselves and put forth much more effort than their peers, yet still just barely get by in school, college, and even in life. 

When babies are born, they are not given the choice as to what their IQ may one day be. They are not given a choice as to what areas they will flourish in or have trouble with. No matter how much education they are fed in their lifetime, they may never comprehend or be able to apply themselves in the same manner in which their peers sucessfully do. 

Babies don't get to choose the color of their skin, either. This is one thing that really irks me: When an otherwise fairly intelligent human attempts to negate an individual or group of individuals simply based upon or because the tone of the others flesh is different from that of their own. 




Mini said:


> Hell, for the sake of fuck it, I'll just say it now: I don't believe in special treatment for BBWs, BHMs, SSBBWs, SSBHMs, et al. I don't expect special accommodations for my height, and I would argue that I'm less responsible for it than most are for their weight.



You know what, Mini? I don't expect special accomodations for my weight or size. I know that I don't 'fit' into most of what society has to offer. I know where I can go and feel comfortable, and I know where I would be uncomfortable being. I also know that sometimes I have to make sacrifices. That being either I accept that I can't go certain places or do certain things; or that if I want to, I may have to pay double what someone of your size may. Do you think that is fair? I'm not saying it is or it isn't, but it's just something that I as a very fat woman have to deal with.


Do you really believe that every single person who is fat is fat by choice? Do you sincerely believe that they are somehow at fault for being fat and thus irresponsible? More than likely you can accredit your height to heredity; genetics, or even possibly a medical condition. The same can be said for a lot of fat people. Do you know when fat cells develop? Take a guess. Do you know what happens when a child's or young adult's pituitary gland is overactive or on the high side of normal? Over eating and/or a sedentary lifestyle are not the only factors that cause someone to be fat or continue to be fat as an adult.




Mini said:


> I believe that people should be free to present themselves and comport themselves however they wish



I agree with you here, up to a point. One also needs to consider where they are and what is acceptable and not acceptable given those circumstances. It's like being in your parent's home, or grandparent's home, or a friend's parents' home, or even a public place. As an adult, we should know what's acceptable and what isn't given our surroundings. 

I haven't seen the transcript. I don't know what was said or in what context, but I do know that this is Dimensions, and if any avenue of Dimensions was being used in a manner contrary to what Dimensions is meant to be, or in a manner that would cast an unsightly blemish upon all that others have worked so hard for, or if two individuals cannot respect those whom Dimensions was created for, then they should be mature enough as adults to accept whatever consequences befall them for their actions. Blaming others or likening their actions to anything other than exactly what it was, will not diminish the pain and hurt they have (whether unintentionally or intentionally) inflicted upon the named individuals or upon this community as a whole.


I also want to add that fat people don't get to choose their body shape or where their fat accumulates. The same goes for fluid retention. Honestly, since when do fat women get to choose whether or not they have cankles, or elbow dimples, or rolls on their thighs, or whatever? I've seen otherwise skinny women with cankles. Think they had a choice? or that they should have wls for their cankles? Anyone else see a lack of maturity in this whole issue? If woman got to choose where to have fat cells on their body, you'd never hear of women having breast implants or breast augmentations; or butt lifts; or tummy tucks; etc. If women could choose what their body looked like, or exactly how fat or how skinny they could be, or choose what areas to be naturally accentuated, you'd probably never hear of eating disorders either.


----------



## mossystate

Oy...not...about...people...having...a....preference.

Some guys..lots of guys...don't like big bellies ( I gots one..and..while I obviously gained in a few places, ,most of my gain has been..belly..my weight does NOT have lots of places to go )..they say " I think hanging bellies are unattractive "..eh, whatever.................those same guys saying that hanging bellies are ugly and that I should have surgery, because I am so grotesque, and, my GOD, SHUDDER, get thee out of my line of vision ..ummmm, not so good...*especially* coming to a site like *this*. 

Yeah..when you SHUDDER and say that, because of a body part looking the way it does, you need to do this and that...it preeeeetty much says more than " oh..dear..I am simply not so attracted to a body part like that "

I mean...COME ON....lol...I laugh, because, this is insane....in-friggin-sane.

I want some popcorn...hold the salt...my ankles are pretty poofy these days as it is. See, I can be a good fattie.


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

elle camino said:


> hahah ok, sweetpea. feel better now?
> 
> maybe read the part of that post where i said i'm fine with strangers talking shit about my body. and since we're publicizing PMs with total disregard for the ensuing awkwardness for everyone else: i'm fine with strangers talking shit about how i _feel about_ my body, at the end of the day. because as we've gone over: what the fuck do they know anyways?
> i mean i appreciate the laffs, but in the future if you're really having trouble letting go of a meaningless private spat between you and i in the past, let's keep it classy and off the board, mkay?



kfine, whatev. it'll be deleted. so there. I'll do it myself, k sugarpie?


----------



## elle camino

edited for sportsmanship


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Tina said:


> I think that whomever Asrai is, they just want to stir things up even more. I tend to just swat gnats away, personally.




Lol...and all I have been wondering is who the hell is Asrai...but then thought why would I care?  :doh:


----------



## AnnMarie

People, cool it - you can't make second/cover user names - it's an offense that can get you banned under certain circumstances. 

Move along - please.

(For the record, to stop speculation, it's no one who's been involved in the most recent round of BS.)

/mod


----------



## pagan22

I'm dying to know what is going on with the drama. I hope it's not reminscent of what Austin said to me in the 4th grade. It destroyed me. 

........But in all honesty, I'm here because I got really depressed. It's almost my birthday and I'm still in college with no degree, I got laid off, I don't have a BF...in fact, I've been alone my whole life (parents don't count) and I was seeking some heartfelt conversations with people who understand that fat is beautiful, but sometimes it can be really hard in society. 

I love being fat. No matter how much exersize and healthy eating I've done has changed anything. I've been the same weight for about 8-9 years, so I'm embracing it and I sought out like minded people. I have never heard of Dimensions or FA before I signed up here, so I'm getting a real education here.

Despite the breach of privacy, I'm glad it's being addressed publicly. It always puts things in perspective when aired like this and makes people stick together. Someone else mentioned family and I agree; Even though I'm new here and I don't know anyone, and my posts often go ignored unless I'm admitting to being conservative in this liberal world or playing in one of those fun threads in the lounge. 

But I would like to thank Joy for adding me on Myspace. =) That was nice even though we haven't spoken yet. 

And sorry to Stan whom I've noticed has a thing for spelling and grammatical errors. Sometimes I go on the verge of freewriting and have to rein myself back.


----------



## lipmixgirl

i am a fat woman. 
i am here to benefit from the fat community as a whole. 
i am here to contribute to the fat community as a whole. 
i am here to learn and grow as a person. 
i am here to take what i have learned and disseminate it in the real world. 
i am here to make a difference.


the big apple has spoken...
::exeunt:: :bow:


----------



## Phatman1

Ok maybe I am really slow but I can not seem to find were love dubh appologized for anything. All I have seen is where she says she was here to use us as an experiment. She wanted to view us as a subculture.

As far as LoveBHMs, it seems she is now just trying to save face but doing a bad job of it. Maybe she does love BHM's but that does not give her a right to treat people the way she did with what she said. Especially in a community (family) that is supposed to be supportive of fat people.


----------



## Jane

Phatman1 said:


> Ok maybe I am really slow but I can not seem to find were love dubh appologized for anything. All I have seen is where she says she was here to use us as an experiment. She wanted to view us as a subculture.
> 
> As far as LoveBHMs, it seems she is now just trying to save face but doing a bad job of it. Maybe she does love BHM's but that does not give her a right to treat people the way she did with what she said. Especially in a community (family) that is supposed to be supportive of fat people.



And you know, the funniest thing about that, fat as a subculture: America is full of fat people. Maybe fat people who do not hate their mere existence would be a subculture, had we not been reminded ONE MORE TIME that we are supposed to hate ourselves.

I kept out of this yesterday because I can be quite too pointed in my observations. I'm going to try to continue to do that if I can.

However, many have snorted when people referred to "the clique" on Dims. Ladies, you have acted like the nasty little society chicks picking on the fat kids in school. You were part of the "most popular" people on the boards, and that wasn't good enough for you. You had to trash others. And it wasn't just a "those fat slobs" trashing. You picked out SPECIFIC people to go after. I just feel like I stepped in something and can't get it off my shoe.


----------



## elle camino

ok i'm going to phrase this as gingerly as i can, but here goes:
i was fat in high school too. like, really fat. so i know. i was picked on constantly, so i've got those memories too. and they may not be the exact same as every other fat teenage kid, but they're close enough. and i can see that shit rearing it's head in my relationships with my friends and the way i relate to the world in at large, in small ways here and there, still to this day. so again: i know. 
but i keep seeing all this crap in this thread about cliques and popular girls and exclusion and whatnot and it's just...guys, seriously. you're tilting at windmills. this PM in question was an shitty and mean and understandably hurtful to many, nobody's denying that - not even it's authors. but i seriously doubt there's some vast, organized cabal of traitorous skinny girls who thrive on talking shit about all the fatties on dimensions. that kind of conclusion just seems so bizarre to leap to, here. i mean the situation already sucks, but why are some people so determined to make it suckier through rumors and hyperbole?


----------



## Jane

Elle, my post on "cliques" was the first I had read mentioning them. If there were others, I failed to pick up on them.

I was popular enough in high school and fat. I went to a very small school. I was kidded about it, but no more than anyone else was kidded about anything else. However, I'm well aware many of the people on this board tolerated miserable childhood/teenaged years due to bullying.

I certainly don't think there is a "vast, organized cabal of traitorous skinny girls who thrive on talking shit about all the fatties on dimensions."
I think tasteless, cruel remarks were made, they became public, and many people have felt that same sense of betrayal they did in high school.

It's just sad.


----------



## elle camino

well hey, on all that we agree, then. even the part about having a generally pretty good time in high school, despite the jerks. and i'm glad we do because i have always dug the heck out of you, jane. sorry i overreacted, if that wasn't what you were saying. 

but yeah, there have been other mentions of the secret no-fatties dims PM mafia or whatever, in this thread. one of which was deleted, thankfully. 
nothing like yelling earthquake during a fire evacuation.


----------



## Jane

Oh, God, no. If I thought there was a fattie-hating Mafia, I'd have to track them down. 

(Sometimes I don't read all the posts, or most of some posts. I get a general idea of what is being said and move on. I was also late to the party.)

My IRL best buddy and I can vent and trash with the best of them, but our rants are about things people can change and don't. They are about rudeness, using other people, and the general lack of social skills and failure to observe the Golden Rule that goes on in political circles. And she knows venting to me means that at some time in the future, I will directly face these people and tell them exactly what I think.


----------



## LillyBBBW

elle camino said:


> well hey, on all that we agree, then. even the part about having a generally pretty good time in high school, despite the jerks. and i'm glad we do because i have always dug the heck out of you, jane. sorry i overreacted, if that wasn't what you were saying.
> 
> but yeah, there have been other mentions of the secret no-fatties dims PM mafia or whatever, in this thread. one of which was deleted, thankfully.
> nothing like yelling earthquake during a fire evacuation.



It is naive to think that we're just one big family of hand holders who don't talk secretly in PM land about things we read on the board and people who piss us off. I certainly do. People and posts who irritate me I sometimes discuss in private and I have friends who do the same. Clique? No. Just frustrated people letting off steam with people they know will relate and not go apeshit. However all it takes in one pissed off person and my shit is on front street so I watch what I put to print and I'm mindful not to say anything that will come back to bite me in the ass. My nastier tirades are reserved for in person only. One of the lessons here should be to never put it in writing.


----------



## bexy

Tooz said:


> Not defending the actions, more disagreeing with the sort of witch trial thing. Can't deny that the similarities are eerie. People who don't side with the mob get the ...lake! I guess.



this is where i stand too tooz. not defending actions, can understand the things said were hurtful to people. totally get it. 
however it has spiralled too much and you would think the 2 loves had killed someone the way things are going.

i certainly dont wanna fall out with anyone on this board. but i also cant let tooz stand alone and be berated for expressing her honest opinion.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

I have to say this - this is not a direct attack at you Lilly, cause I think you are the cats meow!

A long time ago, I used to participate in the back room gossip. I then was attacked on a board for things I sais in private that were sent to others. I learned a BIG lesson from that and it's the main reason I don't participate in back room conversations anymore - not in a long time. 

I learned:

Nothing is private online - EVER!

The people you trust may not actually like you at all.

This is the Internet - I don't know these people.

Gossip is mean. It just is.


I wasn't popular in HS, I wasn't popular as a young woman, and I'm not popular here. I prefer it that way. I think in the fat community there is a certain amount of "I can be popular now!" attitude. And for some it is important to be liked and to be "known" - it gives people a certain amount of power they never had. Hey, it's human nature.

But my point? I don't know. lol

Back room gossip is hurtful. Even thought I am not a part of the groups of friends here, I know exactly how to get the info I want about anyone here. It's not that hard. Why? Because NOTHING IS PRIVATE ONLINE.





LillyBBBW said:


> It is naive to think that we're just one big family of hand holders who don't talk secretly in PM land about things we read on the board and people who piss us off. I certainly do. People and posts who irritate me I sometimes discuss in private and I have friends who do the same. Clique? No. Just frustrated people letting off steam with people they know will relate and not go apeshit. However all it takes in one pissed off person and my shit is on front street so I watch what I put to print and I'm mindful not to say anything that will come back to bite me in the ass. My nastier tirades are reserved for in person only. One of the lessons here should be to never put it in writing.


----------



## Forgotten_Futures

Ummm... I know I'm ridiculously late here, and my presence on board in the past few months has been... almost nonexistant... but would one or more someone(s) _please_ tell me what the heck is going on here?


----------



## largenlovely

You always have to risk what is said in private will be made public. Yes, we have all said things we shouldn't have, but as Lilly said, when you're busted ya own up to it, explain and apologize. Does that mean the person will forgive you and trust you all over again? absolutely not

The problem with what has been said is that it defies everything this community stands for, which is why everyone is so outraged. What i read of the emails, it didn't seem like normal "trashing". It seemed like sickened disgust of what we are ....fat women. 

I am not sure who to be more upset with...a person (lovebhms) who is supposed to be a part of this communtiy of acceptance, or someone (lovedubh) who has no inkling of what this community is about and just wants to use us for a weird experiment. Though...knowing that lovedubh was at our last bash at the pool party, and having discovered this new information...well...it's like we were all circus freaks on display for her own amusement. I admit to feeling pretty betrayed. 

This is a place where we are supposed to feel safe from this type of harassment. If these two had been "trolls" that nobody knew, it would be quite a different situation. Though as someone else said, i'd rather deal with trolls because at least we openly know how they feel. This was from within our own ranks and that makes the betrayal twice as upsetting.


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

Forgotten_Futures said:


> Ummm... I know I'm ridiculously late here, and my presence on board in the past few months has been... almost nonexistant... but would one or more someone(s) _please_ tell me what the heck is going on here?



some of these DIMwits actually prefer Sammy Hager over David Lee Roth.

Seriously.

WTF.


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist

Love the post, Miss Saucy.

I'm here because I think it's important for those outside the dominant paradigm to get a chance at fair social and political treatment, and because a physical difference that hasn't been popular for awhile shouldn't make people feel limited in their beauty or sexuality. It's kinda simple, but that's it. /boring


----------



## LisaInNC

Ok, I realize that this may seem like a witch hunt, but the fact is, these girls betrayed everyone. Yes, it was a private conversation and yes it was none of our business, but now it is our business because it has been made public. I was told once, "never do in the dark what you dont want to come to light" because of this very reason. You will always be found out. So while it may seem rational to say WE are in the wrong because these girls never meant for us to find out that they secretly dislike fat...lets be serious here...the people who are defending them...are people who are their friends...and are doing what friends are supposed to do, but if it were someone they didnt like who had said those things, I seriously doubt they would be so willing to forgive. 

The conspiracy theorist in me has a feeling these girls wanted this info out there...I mean how do you screw up an email like that? In some secret not trusting people way...I think they did this to divide and conquer...."Look at us...we took down a whole message board". Like I said...just a theory.

I honestly think we have given these two way too much attention now...and say either we choke the shit out of them...or get on with being happy. If they wanna come here and make fun of us to make themselves feel better...then let em. It is not good for us to upset ourselves. Karma has a funny way of coming back and biting people in the ass, so I say let karma handle it and lets get back to laughing and having a good time here. I dont wanna become "Bitter, party of 1" because two small minded people decided to usurp my safe haven.

The Big Lebowski has spoken...(heh I wanted to copy Aris and thats the only other Big I could come up with)


----------



## Santaclear

It's amusing that while some are yelling about "privacy", the Loves, as brilliant as they apparently believe they are, are the ones who outed themselves.  No one went snooping in their pms to find this material. One of them sent it to someone, evidently by mistake. And it's so puerile and totally contradictory to the images they cultivated on the boards. 

I didn't pay them much mind before this and I'm not hurt or feeling particularly betrayed since I barely cared about them. But it's not about me. 

To me it's a reminder that what you see (especially on the internet) isn't always what you get.

Thanks for the entertainment, girls!


----------



## SilkyAngela

Why am I here?

Because I am fat and feel welcome and I love people...probably should say especially fat people, but really I just like genuine and kind people whatever size they come in. I like the diversity of interests represented here at Dims so I plan on sticking around. Unless the mods or the mob hang me. 

Someone asked me the other day why I'm always happy and eager to laugh and smile. My answer? I'm working on being the best me I can be, that keeps me so busy that I don't start shit or entertain shit. Not saying my life is entirely drama-free, but it is lite on the drama, heavy on the lovin. :smitten:

Just saying, it makes for a simple, pleasant, and fulfilling life and I recommend it highly.


----------



## fatchicksrockuk

If there is to be any punishment, perhaps it should be voted on, by means of a poll?


----------



## Tooz

fatchicksrockuk said:


> If there is to be any punishment, perhaps it should be voted on, by means of a poll?



I had told myself I would be quiet, but I have to say I think that isn't a good idea. It would further the rift that has been created. We should just let it die. I really don't think they will want to be spending more time here anymore anyway.


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist

Bottom line: A public crucifying isn't worth fuck all. 

Someone said something very childish. It's not the first time and it's not the last. It's distasteful as hell, but God knows I've said some distasteful shit. And we all have to take the naturally consequential, "Wow, you're a bitch for saying that. What the fuck is wrong with you?" 

Everyone pays a price for what they choose to do and say, including those quick to "punish."


----------



## Wild Zero

Feels like I just stubbed my toe on Ozymandias' pedestal.

Gotta say that putting banhammers in the hands of board members is one of the fastest ways to kill a vibrant community, watched it destroy a number of forums I used to visit and moderate and I wouldn't like to see that happen here.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Yeah but - you're a bitch - we expect distasteful things from you!

You know I love ya sweetcakes!:wubu:





TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Bottom line: A public crucifying isn't worth fuck all.
> 
> Someone said something very childish. It's not the first time and it's not the last. It's distasteful as hell, but God knows I've said some distasteful shit. And we all have to take the naturally consequential, "Wow, you're a bitch for saying that. What the fuck is wrong with you?"
> 
> Everyone pays a price for what they choose to do and say, including those quick to "punish."


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist

Love you, too, Sandie dear.


----------



## JoyJoy

fatchicksrockuk said:


> If there is to be any punishment, perhaps it should be voted on, by means of a poll?


I personally think that living with the knowledge and backlash of their careless words and actions is fair enough punishment, even if their pride and arrogance won't let them admit it to us. The scope of hurt and alienation to others is enough to reverberate in their lives for quite some time. 

As they say (and someone else mentioned up-thread), Karma's a bitch. 

What bothers me is knowing that some who were already insecure are affected by this episode. That cannot be easily repaired.


----------



## fatchicksrockuk

Ok, fair points people...it wasn't one of my best ideas ever! I'll retract the suggestion.


----------



## Tina

fatchicksrockuk said:


> If there is to be any punishment, perhaps it should be voted on, by means of a poll?


Oy vey. What a mess _that_ would be, Mike.   Nah, us admins will have to be trusted to decide. 

What happened, happened. People feel the way they do about it and will act and post accordingly, and they have that right, unless they are breaking the rules in expressing themselves. We're not the thought police, and do not punish people for what they think -- or even for what they write in PMs, unless there is harassment going on in the PMs. [/mod]


----------



## Tooz

JoyJoy said:


> I personally think that living with the knowledge and backlash of their careless words and actions is fair enough punishment, even if their pride and arrogance won't let them admit it to us. The scope of hurt and alienation to others is enough to reverberate in their lives for quite some time.
> 
> As they say (and someone else mentioned up-thread), Karma's a bitch.
> 
> What bothers me is knowing that some who were already insecure are affected by this episode. That cannot be easily repaired.



Well, one of them did admit it, actually...


----------



## JoyJoy

Tooz said:


> Well, one of them did admit it, actually...



You're right...in this thread...after tremendous pressure was placed on them. I view that as damage control and little more. Too little too late. I was privy to the initial response, so most of what was said by them here means nothing to me. I suspect they're not too concerned about that, though.


----------



## Tooz

JoyJoy said:


> You're right...in this thread...after tremendous pressure was placed on them. I view that as damage control and little more. Too little too late. I was privy to the initial response, so most of what was said by them here means nothing to me. I suspect they're not too concerned about that, though.



Well, I'm sorry that you think it was damage control. She had sent private, extensive apologies and was still trying to determine if she thought it was worth the effort to even try on a public level.

Another thing that bothers me (again, don't confuse this with defending their actions. I have not been doing that.) is the inferring of other personality traits. "She must not care" "Her pride wont ___" etc. This is not an if A then B scenario. Much like many are becoming angry without thinking about it, they did what they did without thinking.


Like Bexy said, you'd think they killed someone or something. Sheesh.


----------



## James

I'm here because I'm a guy that likes fat women. 

I contribute because I think there are many subjects that need to be debated. Clearly we are a community with some divisions and conflicting agendas on issues of fat sexuality (and size acceptance). I think we've come a long way in reconciling some of those problems over the years and are stronger for it. I passionately believe that through further debate we will continue to lessen ignorance and give ourselves a chance to collectively understand ourselves (and eachother)... _sorry if thats a bit Jerry Springer..but I really believe it...._

as for the other point of this thread...

I think we all have lapses now and then where anger or emotion gets the better side of us. In a community this small (and by small I mean 'active' posters) I would imagine its pretty common for people to gossip or bitch about the people they dont like. I did it once, and subsequently apologised directly to the person in question. Months later, I realised I was 90% correct after all (but thats besides the point). 

The point is that a couple of people did something bigoted... in private. However, they got theirs in the most public way possible... and they deserved it IMO... What they *did* do though is apologise in this thread. *If* they want to work at getting over their prejudices, to continue to post and be taken seriously here then I guess they've got a lot of burnt bridges to rebuild..? I think we should be big enough to give them a shot at doing that if they want to though...


----------



## JoyJoy

Tooz said:


> Well, I'm sorry that you think it was damage control. She had sent private, extensive apologies and was still trying to determine if she thought it was worth the effort to even try on a public level.
> 
> Another thing that bothers me (again, don't confuse this with defending their actions. I have not been doing that.) is the inferring of other personality traits. "She must not care" "Her pride wont ___" etc. This is not an if A then B scenario. Much like many are becoming angry without thinking about it, they did what they did without thinking.
> 
> 
> Like Bexy said, you'd think they killed someone or something. Sheesh.


They did kill something..or at least do severe damage: trust and a certain level of security and community. They're not the only ones who don't feel comfortable here at this point in time.


----------



## Tooz

JoyJoy said:


> They did kill something..or at least do severe damage: trust and a certain level of security and community. They're not the only ones who don't feel comfortable here at this point in time.



As I said before: this is the internet. You may have your opinions about people's behavior online, but the reality is nothing is sacred, nothing is a safe haven. It sucks, I know, but that's just how it is.

While it is nice to HAVE a safe haven, few have it and it is not something owed to people by life. Of all the places one can fight to find such a thing, the internet really isn't where it's gonna be. At best you can be lulled into a false sense of security.

Lastly, I said someONE, not someTHING. I think what they did hurt a lot of people, and it was a very dumb move, but this thread has heavily damaged the relations of even more people. What they did is wrong. What this thread is is wrong. To sound cliche, two wrongs don't make a right.



James said:


> I guess they've got a lot of burnt bridges to rebuild..? I think we should be big enough to give them a shot at doing that if they want to though...



What he said.


----------



## CuteyChubb

I am a fat woman and love people who love me. :doh:


----------



## fatgirlflyin

JoyJoy said:


> You're right...in this thread...after tremendous pressure was placed on them. I view that as damage control and little more. Too little too late. I was privy to the initial response, so most of what was said by them here means nothing to me. I suspect they're not too concerned about that, though.



There was an PM apology sent out, I think before the shit hit the fan? I have read the PM's and admit to being disappointed and hurt, and can understand everyone's anger. I just hope that everyone can move on from this, and get this board back to being what its supposed to be. 

If the two Loves decide to/are allowed to stay then I'd wager that they have a lot of work ahead of them in repairing or at least trying to repair some of the damage their words have done. 

I know I'm certainly guilty of saying some mean shit about people, stuff I wouldn't ever want those people to hear and would be mortified if they did find out what I said. I can even admit that when I was younger there was a time when I used fat as a negative descriptor when I was angry beyond all angry with someone. Its hard not to do, when you live in a society where fat = bad. So when you're really mad, like pissed beyond all reason and you can't really think of something to say, hasn't something just really ignorant ever slipped out? It has from me, and I've had it done to me.


----------



## JoyJoy

Tooz said:


> Like Bexy said, you'd think they killed someone or *something*. Sheesh.





Tooz said:


> Lastly, I said someONE, not someTHING.



(nitpicking but..yeah, you did...emphasis mine.)




Tooz said:


> As I said before: this is the internet. You may have your opinions about people's behavior online, but the reality is nothing is sacred, nothing is a safe haven. It sucks, I know, but that's just how it is.
> 
> While it is nice to HAVE a safe haven, few have it and it is not something owed to people by life. Of all the places one can fight to find such a thing, the internet really isn't where it's gonna be. At best you can be lulled into a false sense of security.
> 
> I think what they did hurt a lot of people, and it was a very dumb move, but this thread has heavily damaged the relations of even more people. What they did is wrong. What this thread is is wrong. To sound cliche, two wrongs don't make a right.





Tooz said:


> Another thing that bothers me (again, don't confuse this with defending their actions. I have not been doing that.) is the inferring of other personality traits. "She must not care" "Her pride wont ___" etc. This is not an if A then B scenario. Much like many are becoming angry without thinking about it, they did what they did without thinking.


 You're right. Nothing is sacred, but I know I'm not the only one who has felt a certain level of comfort here, and when shit like this happens, it's jarring. And since we're talking about reality....the reality of all of this is that this started because of a mistake by one of THEM. They can't take it back now, and the damage created by this mistake can't just be erased, and they absolutely cannot blame people for being angry and having the reactions in this thread. As far as being angry without thinking...I sat on this for weeks, saying nothing but thinking on it and getting angrier. So my words here aren't made on the fly. At this point, I don't give a flying fig about the semantics of it all, having seen their true colors....but the Karma thing does give me comfort.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

Also I'm here because I'm a fat woman in love with a fat man. I love what this place offers as a coming together spot for other fat people who may not always get along and dont always have the same views but what they do have in common is being fat and facing the world and all its hurdles as fat men and women. I love that you can come here to get support from something as seemingly stupid as a bad hair cut to something soooooo important as the death of a loved one. 

I love that I have seen people pull together to get fellow members to the side of an sick loved one, I love that I've seen people come together and send equipment to someone who's needed it, or sent a little gift on to give to a child of a fellow member. That's why I love this place and that's why I'm here.


----------



## Wild Zero

.......filler text


----------



## bexy

never mind lol


----------



## JoyJoy

bexylicious said:


> Perfect example of things being misunderstood on the internet :doh:
> 
> Tooz meant or something similar....not killed someone or someTHING.....


You're right...my bad. My point still stands, though, whether it was a person, place or THING.


----------



## Santaclear

Tooz said:


> As I said before: this is the internet. You may have your opinions about people's behavior online, but the reality is nothing is sacred, nothing is a safe haven. It sucks, I know, but that's just how it is.
> 
> While it is nice to HAVE a safe haven, few have it and it is not something owed to people by life. Of all the places one can fight to find such a thing, the internet really isn't where it's gonna be. At best you can be lulled into a false sense of security.
> 
> Lastly, I said someONE, not someTHING. I think what they did hurt a lot of people, and it was a very dumb move, but this thread has heavily damaged the relations of even more people. What they did is wrong. What this thread is is wrong. To sound cliche, two wrongs don't make a right.



I don't think this thread is wrong. The Loves were wrong. The thread is calling them out. A lot of people were upset about this and it had to be addressed. They brought it on themselves by sending the friggin' pms. Lame. No one was "crucified" (hahaha all you poor martyrs) - they were just called out for their extreme phoniness and they both gave lame "apologies" (well dubh's wasn't quite an apology.)


----------



## mossystate

Another two cents. I think some folks might have a better chance of understanding what some of us have been saying, if they try and read those infamous messages, but, take out the two individuals mentioned.

If you read it that way, you might see it as not just some ' talking shit about people, behind their backs '. If you take away the two names, and take away any mention of clothing style, just for this little experiement, I would then hope you see how this was a general condemnation of fat people who are ' too fat '.

They were accomodating rolleyes to those who are fat, but, not too repulsive. Spin it however you want to spin it. I understand the liking someone and having a hard time just flushing that. Just don't tell anybody else they should just get over it.

Apologies, without changing core beliefs, and trying to justify by bringing up how _other people_ say bad things about a fetish...whatever..well..empty.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

LoveBHMS said:


> When this broke, I composed a very long and very personal PM that went to several members of this community.



Lest anyone think otherwise, none of these came to me.



Tooz said:


> Honestly? I'd be more angry at myself for being stupid enough to let my guard down. This is the internet-- there is nowhere safe. If they were talking shit about me RIGHT THIS SECOND, well, whatever. If people want to tear apart my appearance, well, I DID post pictures of myself, didn't I?
> 
> If you don't want something like that to happen, then be careful about what of yourself you put out there. This is a public site on the internet.



This post makes no sense at all. The two people who were the target of this (myself & AM) couldn't give a flying fuck what two people acting like idiots think of us (I can't really speak for AM, but that's what I got from her post). The people who have been sincerely hurt are the people who are NOT in that same place - whose sense of "safe from fat bigotry at Dims" has been totally shattered. Now they're all wondering if there are other PMs out there like that about them - and you really can't blame them for being hurt. Saying "the internet isn't safe" is just a bullshit cop-out. You can say you're "not defending them" all you want - the fact remains that you are.



Santaclear said:


> I wasn't so much offended by the exchanges between the two Loves as _shocked_ - to learn that that's how they really think. Both of them had put up a good front. I was surprised that one of them was so stupid as to mistakenly send it to someone else. But I feel the women who really feel hurt by it have the right to feel as they do - it's not for us to say.



This is SPOT ON. Exactly how I feel. Loves and I have never gotten along, but I thought Maire was a good friend - I was disappointed to see my trust was misplaced.



Ella Bella said:


> There was an PM apology sent out, I think before the shit hit the fan?



Again, no apology was issued to me, nor do I expect I will ever receive one.

Frankly, as I've said, I was not hurt at all by the comments. I just honestly don't care. There are so MANY things that have happened here at Dims that have hurt me far, far worse - this wasn't even a drop in the bucket. I read the PMs and flicked them off me like one would flick away a mosquito. Irritating, annoying, and not worth time to even think about. 

What is harder for me to take is the complete lack of remorse. Yes, Loves posted an apology, but not to everyone - only to "those that didn't deserve to be hurt." This is a very sneaky way of saying "This isn't to everybody." (And yes, Tooz, I know you'll now post and say I'm paranoid, or reading things into it because of my own issues, or whatever. I hope I've just saved you time by saying that concisely). 

The only part of this that I will ever think about outside of this in my "real life" is the fact that I've lost someone I thought was a good friend (Maire). That, quite frankly, sucks.


----------



## Sugar

Tooz said:


> As I said before: this is the internet. You may have your opinions about people's behavior online, but the reality is nothing is sacred, nothing is a safe haven. It sucks, I know, but that's just how it is.
> 
> While it is nice to HAVE a safe haven, few have it and it is not something owed to people by life. Of all the places one can fight to find such a thing, the internet really isn't where it's gonna be. At best you can be lulled into a false sense of security.
> 
> Lastly, I said someONE, not someTHING. I think what they did hurt a lot of people, and it was a very dumb move, but this thread has heavily damaged the relations of even more people. What they did is wrong. What this thread is is wrong. To sound cliche, two wrongs don't make a right.
> 
> 
> 
> What he said.




What about the fact that one of them actually showed up to a bash? 

This whole theory that "it's just the internet" is hogwash to me. I've known some of these people for well over a decade. Do I go to their house every weekend? No. Do I babysit their kids and swap clothes? No. I do, however, on a regular basis share my trials and tribulations, my successes & joys. When I get the chance I visit & I call...because they are REAL people. 

As much as anyone wants to say that there is a false sense of security with the internet the fact is betrayal in this case happened in REAL LIFE. In real life they laid their eyes on people and judged with disgust. 

And yes, I know there is no safety at a bash and really at the end of the day there is no safety in the world. Our feelings do not have a pretty candy shell to protect us. However, if we can try to do away with such hate and protect what is right...why the heck not try!?

I refuse to chalk this up to "Oh that wacky internet!"


----------



## elle camino

Lucky said:


> As much as anyone wants to say that there is a false sense of security with the internet the fact is betrayal in this case happened in REAL LIFE. In real life they laid their eyes on people and judged with disgust.



oh now come ON. granted i wasn't at the bash lbhms attended (or any bash, for that matter), but that was like TWO YEARS ago, she went and hung out with people she was friends with there, they had a great time, she came home and had nothing but wonderful things to say about everyone she'd met there, many of whom she's still close with today. in fact, as someone who's in very regular communication with her, i am STILL hearing about her crush on rowan, which she developed at that dang bash. 


this is just so out of hand, it's fucking absurd. give me a break. i understand being upset and disappointed by what was in those PMs, but good grief, they've been throughly vilified - let's not rewrite history.


----------



## LisaInNC

elle camino said:


> oh now come ON. granted i wasn't at the bash lbhms attended (or any bash, for that matter), but that was like TWO YEARS ago, she went and hung out with people she was friends with there, they had a great time, she came home and had nothing but wonderful things to say about everyone she'd met there, many of whom she's still close with today. in fact, as someone who's in very regular communication with her, i am STILL hearing about her crush on rowan, which she developed at that dang bash.
> 
> 
> this is just so out of hand, it's fucking absurd. give me a break. i understand being upset and disappointed by what was in those PMs, but good grief, they've been throughly vilified - let's not rewrite history.



She was refering to the bash lovedubh went to back in march. (I think)


----------



## moniquessbbw

I am here because the women here are like the sisters that I never had. They understand me and I understand them. Plus I am all about size acceptance and have to do my part to help out in our community.


----------



## SocialbFly

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Lest anyone think otherwise, none of these came to me.
> 
> 
> 
> This post makes no sense at all. The two people who were the target of this (myself & AM) couldn't give a flying fuck what two people acting like idiots think of us (I can't really speak for AM, but that's what I got from her post). The people who have been sincerely hurt are the people who are NOT in that same place - whose sense of "safe from fat bigotry at Dims" has been totally shattered. Now they're all wondering if there are other PMs out there like that about them - and you really can't blame them for being hurt. Saying "the internet isn't safe" is just a bullshit cop-out. You can say you're "not defending them" all you want - the fact remains that you are.
> 
> 
> 
> This is SPOT ON. Exactly how I feel. Loves and I have never gotten along, but I thought Maire was a good friend - I was disappointed to see my trust was misplaced.
> 
> 
> 
> Again, no apology was issued to me, nor do I expect I will ever receive one.
> 
> Frankly, as I've said, I was not hurt at all by the comments. I just honestly don't care. There are so MANY things that have happened here at Dims that have hurt me far, far worse - this wasn't even a drop in the bucket. I read the PMs and flicked them off me like one would flick away a mosquito. Irritating, annoying, and not worth time to even think about.
> 
> What is harder for me to take is the complete lack of remorse. Yes, Loves posted an apology, but not to everyone - only to "those that didn't deserve to be hurt." This is a very sneaky way of saying "This isn't to everybody." (And yes, Tooz, I know you'll now post and say I'm paranoid, or reading things into it because of my own issues, or whatever. I hope I've just saved you time by saying that concisely).
> 
> The only part of this that I will ever think about outside of this in my "real life" is the fact that I've lost someone I thought was a good friend (Maire). That, quite frankly, sucks.



well, once again, this clears up a lot for me, when those who have wronged people do nothing to clear up the original problem that is distasteful to me, once again i say, they know what to do, and i am hoping they have done it...

we get faced with discrimination everyday...as a SSBBW, try walking down a hallway without someone thinking you dont have a mirror at home...so my answer is, i dont expect or EVER condone it being done in my fricking house...and that is what i consider dimensions (Thanks for sharing Conrad, lol) this is MY house....i contribute to it, i live it, i love it....you dont value it, for whatever fricking reason....


LEAVE!


----------



## TCUBOB

Against better judgement, I'm going to pop off, since it seems like everyone else on the boards has already.

I'm not always the person I want to be. I'm ashamed at times that I'm not, but I hope that I learn from those situations, gain the strength to better myself from them. 

I've said things I'm not proud of, things that I no longer believe, to people in this community, both publicly and privately. I've ripped people, mocked people and generally been an ass at times. I've said things that hurt people, both knowingly and unknowingly.

In the end, though, we are all only as good as what we say -- before, during and after. And if someone gets up and takes responsibility for their actions, honestly and sincerely, then I'm willing to forgive and forget. But that's just me -- I think it takes too much work to hold a grudge.

Now, I don't want to defend anything that folks here found offensive. A lot of people find this community as a oasis that gives them the strength to face the world. 

However, I would like to believe that everyone is redeemable. And...<editing for lack of going anywhere and the increasing chance that I'd only piss someone off>

So in closing....I'm sorry for those who were hurt. I hope that they can forgive. I can understand if they don't. And I would hope that the community can heal, and that all who wish to participate in the community can be accepted.


----------



## NancyGirl74

Privacy issue aside...I don't see how anyone here can be ok with what the Loves did. When someone hurts (purposefully or not) someone I care about I cannot be ok with it. The "someone" they hurt is not just AM and Ginny (even though that is distasteful enough). They hurt a very large portion of the community here. If nothing else those hurt feelings deserve some respect. To dismiss them is rather cold and unfeeling. Had anyone of their "defenders" been the target of their hate instead I'm 100% sure the tune would change. I'm also sure that they would be equally hurt to hear people justify a downright blatant betrayal of trust. People can color the Loves actions anyway they see fit...but just realize they would color it differently if it was them on the receiving end of the abuse.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Dianna - I feel the same way. I've been here almost forever. This is where I come for support and understanding when life gets too hard. This is MY house too. I get judged all the time in my real life - I don't need it, I don't want it HERE!

Take your garbage - clean up your own shitty mess and get the fuck out of my house!!!




SocialbFly said:


> well, once again, this clears up a lot for me, when those who have wronged people do nothing to clear up the original problem that is distasteful to me, once again i say, they know what to do, and i am hoping they have done it...
> 
> we get faced with discrimination everyday...as a SSBBW, try walking down a hallway without someone thinking you dont have a mirror at home...so my answer is, i dont expect or EVER condone it being done in my fricking house...and that is what i consider dimensions (Thanks for sharing Conrad, lol) this is MY house....i contribute to it, i live it, i love it....you dont value it, for whatever fricking reason....
> 
> 
> LEAVE!


----------



## SocialbFly

TCUBOB said:


> And if someone gets up and takes responsibility for their actions, honestly and sincerely, then I'm willing to forgive and forget. But that's just me -- I think it takes too much work to hold a grudge.
> 
> So in closing....I'm sorry for those who were hurt. I hope that they can forgive. I can understand if they don't. And I would hope that the community can heal, and that all who wish to participate in the community can be accepted.





The fact is, one of the very people they sought to judge has NOT received an apology, this is a public outing, she deserves a public apology...so, in my mind, the answer is set....

your apology was far more public and sincere than the half baked ones that i read, are they sorry, sure, cause their comments were seen, were they sorry for the hurt caused someone in particular?? NOT when they didnt even say sorry to Ginny....that is just bullshit.


----------



## Sugar

LisaInNC said:


> She was refering to the bash lovedubh went to back in march. (I think)



Yes, thank you.


----------



## Sugar

You know...as stated in previous posts I'm disgusted by the actions of these two people and yeah they said sorry and hopefully they'll go away never to be heard from. However, my level of frustration with them is nothing compared to the people that are defending it or some how trying to say "hey, it's _not _that bad".

It *is* that bad. 

No more broad brushstrokes of kumbaya. If you are pretty okay with their actions...I hope y'all go the way of the dodo too.


----------



## Aurora1

I have to say....I am freaking amazed! I imagine that 99% of the people on this board have experienced some type of ridicule for either being fat or adoring fat at some point in their lives or have experienced it their ENTIRE lives. So, that in mind...how the hell can you let these two trivial bitches bother you?? Common now! We are a stronger community than that! I've heard the whole story and it disturbs me as well but Lisa couldn't be more correct in pointing out that Karma has a way of taking care of things. I'm a God fearing person and I know when I do something terribly shitty that it's probably already on it's way back to me before I have a chance to feel any remorse. People can only make you feel the way you ALLOW them to. That goes for everyone you meet...not just here on these boards. This board has everything to do with fat acceptance...so most people that would come here and feel comfortable sticking around feel that they can actually RELATE to most topics on here wether you agree or disagree. Fat women can understand each other and the big and small issues we go through every day of our lives. The same goes for fat admirers being able to relate to one anothers' issues, whatever they may be. Not everyone is here on this board for such reasons...some people clearly have other motives in mind. There are people out there that don't like fat people for whatever reasons. Sooooo what? Do we live our lives just to please others? Are we supposed to spend our days just trying to be everything everyone wants us to be or hate ourselves because we are not? Hell no! If these two ladies don't like fat women or certain "levels" of fat...who gives a fuck? Who are they really to you? Do you honestly respect their opinions all that much to allow what they have said to have such an effect on you??? I sure as shit don't!

Nothing is going to destroy or ruin this board unless we allow it to. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and private message or not apparently even fat haters are welcome here. The great part about this board is that no matter what your opinion is of something...you're entitled to it! Everyone gets a voice here and the ability to state their own opinion and put it all out there...that's what discussion boards are all about. 

The point of my post is basically ...allowing what these two people have said to have such an impact on us here is like giving the people that have ridiculed us our whole lives back the power to make us feel low. We have come way to far as a community to allow two insignificant people to come here and wipe out the self confidence and pride it has taken so long for us to build.
I'm fat...I'm proud...and I even like to see some sexy cankles, even if I don't have them. I don't care what anyone here thinks about me...it doesn't change who I am by a long shot.


----------



## JoyJoy

Aurora1 said:


> I have to say....I am freaking amazed! I imagine that 99% of the people on this board have experienced some type of ridicule for either being fat or adoring fat at some point in their lives or have experienced it their ENTIRE lives. So, that in mind...how the hell can you let these two trivial bitches bother you?? Common now! We are a stronger community than that! I've heard the whole story and it disturbs me as well but Lisa couldn't be more correct in pointing out that Karma has a way of taking care of things. I'm a God fearing person and I know when I do something terribly shitty that it's probably already on it's way back to me before I have a chance to feel any remorse. People can only make you feel the way you ALLOW them to. That goes for everyone you meet...not just here on these boards. This board has everything to do with fat acceptance...so most people that would come here and feel comfortable sticking around feel that they can actually RELATE to most topics on here wether you agree or disagree. Fat women can understand each other and the big and small issues we go through every day of our lives. The same goes for fat admirers being able to relate to one anothers' issues, whatever they may be. Not everyone is here on this board for such reasons...some people clearly have other motives in mind. There are people out there that don't like fat people for whatever reasons. Sooooo what? Do we live our lives just to please others? Are we supposed to spend our days just trying to be everything everyone wants us to be or hate ourselves because we are not? Hell no! If these two ladies don't like fat women or certain "levels" of fat...who gives a fuck? Who are they really to you? Do you honestly respect their opinions all that much to allow what they have said to have such an effect on you??? I sure as shit don't!
> 
> Nothing is going to destroy or ruin this board unless we allow it to. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and private message or not apparently even fat haters are welcome here. The great part about this board is that no matter what your opinion is of something...you're entitled to it! Everyone gets a voice here and the ability to state their own opinion and put it all out there...that's what discussion boards are all about.
> 
> The point of my post is basically ...allowing what these two people have said to have such an impact on us here is like giving the people that have ridiculed us our whole lives back the power to make us feel low. We have come way to far as a community to allow two insignificant people to come here and wipe out the self confidence and pride it has taken so long for us to build.
> I'm fat...I'm proud...and I even like to see some sexy cankles, even if I don't have them. I don't care what anyone here thinks about me...it doesn't change who I am by a long shot.


 Aurora...I totally respect what you're saying, but this issue isn't so much what they said that has been hurtful or made people angry. It's that these two women were "part of the family" and many befriended them and trusted them, only to find out they were wolves in sheep's clothing. That kind of betrayal can be difficult to just brush off.


----------



## Tooz

APPARENTLY people can't tell the difference between defending someone's actions, disagreeing with repercussions and simply pointing out logic. BUT THAT IS OK.


You guys can sit here and bitch about what two people said and be ideal about the internet all you want-- it doesn't change anything. Two wrongs do not make a right at the end of the day.

By the way, to what Nancy said about PMs being about someone/their tune changing-- no. My tune would not change. I actually have the ability to be rational long enough to analyze the situation before I throw a shit fit. (I do so love shit fits though! Very cleansing. )


Have fun being victims, guys. This thread is really not going anywhere. I tried to be nice and reasonable, but I am now tired of catching flack because I don't agree with your treatment of people, regardless of what they did.


If you need me, I will be in the clothing section of the forums!


----------



## Tina

Nice. Because a number of people are hurt by this they are "victims."

That is a very shitty thing to say.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Tooz said:


> Closing statement:
> 
> #1: No, it's stilly to think names define someone, but in this case it does show that LoveBHMS does in fact love BHMs, therefore...I'll let you make that connection.
> #2: Oh, yes, terribly my bad for not knowing your name, hun. I'll never forgive myself. By that I mean I won't freak out if someone calls me babe, honey, or any other term.
> 
> Tired of reading what people can only be doing and saying with glee.
> Peace.





Tooz said:


> APPARENTLY people can't tell the difference between defending someone's actions, disagreeing with repercussions and simply pointing out logic. BUT THAT IS OK.
> 
> 
> You guys can sit here and bitch about what two people said and be ideal about the internet all you want-- it doesn't change anything. Two wrongs do not make a right at the end of the day.
> 
> By the way, to what Nancy said about PMs being about someone/their tune changing-- no. My tune would not change. I actually have the ability to be rational long enough to analyze the situation before I throw a shit fit. (I do so love shit fits though! Very cleansing. )
> 
> 
> Have fun being victims, guys. This thread is really not going anywhere. I tried to be nice and reasonable, but I am now tired of catching flack because I don't agree with your treatment of people, regardless of what they did.
> 
> 
> If you need me, I will be in the clothing section of the forums!



Hmm, wonder if _this _grandiose exit is actually for real.


----------



## KHayes666

Why am I here......lol why AM I here? why am i HERE? WHY am I here?


----------



## supersoup

i'm here for the women.

HOLLA.


----------



## Wagimawr

what a coincidence.

me too!


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

No - no one is a victim who is posting here. I resent the implication that I'm a victim because I choose not to take anymore crap. That is completely ludicrous!! I agree with Tina - that was a real shitty thing to say.

Letting these 2 witches get away with what they did and still being their friend, that's being a coward. Rather than confront their lousy attitude you let it slide. Nice.

I'm so fucking pissed right now - I have to do something else. I worry about the women who haven't posted, the ones who just got hurt and left. THAT is who really got hurt here - not me. I can handle little girls playing little girl games. But there are fragile souls here looking for support and those 2 shit on them. That's what pissed me off.


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

I'm here because I like watching people relish in the fact that for once they're not the ones on the receiving end up a verbal beatdown. <3


----------



## Santaclear

Tooz said:


> You guys can sit here and bitch about what two people said and be ideal about the internet all you want-- it doesn't change anything. Two wrongs do not make a right at the end of the day.
> 
> Have fun being victims, guys. This thread is really not going anywhere. I tried to be nice and reasonable, but I am now tired of catching flack because I don't agree with your treatment of people, regardless of what they did.



Once again, it isn't two wrongs. Calling the Loves (lol) out for their behavior isn't wrong. How is that a wrong? They're responsible for their behavior. Let them deal with that.


----------



## NancyGirl74

Tooz said:


> By the way, to what Nancy said about PMs being about someone/their tune changing-- no. My tune would not change. I actually have the ability to be rational long enough to analyze the situation before I throw a shit fit. (I do so love shit fits though! Very cleansing. )



First of all, I'm not sure what comment of mine you are referring to. When I said that I felt people would change their tune if the comments had been directed at them I was stating my opinion. Its an opinion that I think is very valid. You don't have to agree...clearly you don't. Fine. 

If you are referring to my posts here as "shit fits" then I will tell that you don't know me very well...you haven't seen shit. But I will refrain from shitting the big steaming hot load I _*really*_ want to shit right now because I don't shit on my friends.



BigBeautifulMe said:


> Hmm, wonder if _this _grandiose exit is actually for real.



Deja vu all over again


----------



## Fyreflyintheskye

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> completely ludicrous!!




I saw your "ludicrous" and could have sworn it said *"unicorn."* You had my immediate and undivided attention! And then my heart sank a little... 






must be the thread bumming him out or something.


----------



## Eclectic_Girl

Santaclear said:


> I don't think this thread is wrong. The Loves were wrong. The thread is calling them out. A lot of people were upset about this and it had to be addressed. They brought it on themselves by sending the friggin' pms. Lame. No one was "crucified" (hahaha all you poor martyrs) - they were just called out for their extreme phoniness and they both gave lame "apologies" (well dubh's wasn't quite an apology.)





Santaclear said:


> Once again, it isn't two wrongs. Calling the Loves (lol) out for their behavior isn't wrong. They're responsible for their behavior. Let them deal with that.




Exactly. 

Words and actions have consequences. This thread is their consequences. Those two won't be banned for what they wrote, they won't be jailed for what they think, and nobody's breaking their windows or burning them at the stake. However, they should (if they have the backbone to accept responsibility) have to listen to the effects of what they put out there in the world. Sometimes karma comes in the form of having to look your own pathetic weakness square in the face.

If there is actual regret on their part, shame at their own bigotry instead of embarassment at getting caught in deception, then the lesson they'll take away is to be kinder, not more careful who they bitch to. I haven't seen much hope for growth yet, but which way they fall doesn't mean that much to me. They were minor blips in my existence before, and they'll be even less now.

I'm not worried about the community: the community is strong. Strong enough to root out an infection, painfully lance the boil, and then heal over cleanly as if the offending filth had never existed.


----------



## pagan22

ShakenBakeSharleen said:


> I saw your "ludicrous" and could have sworn it said *"unicorn."* You had my immediate and undivided attention! And then my heart sank a little...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> must be the thread bumming him out or something.



All I have to say is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5im0Ssyyus


----------



## girl_in_the_attic

I'm here to make new friends and maybe find a relationship on here, maybe a feeder if they arent all in for booty call =/. Im hoping this place is more civilized than fantasyfeeder. That place is a mess!


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

ShakenBakeSharleen said:


> I saw your "ludicrous" and could have sworn it said *"unicorn."* You had my immediate and undivided attention! And then my heart sank a little...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> must be the thread bumming him out or something.



You know what - I'm so over stupid remarks about my spelling that try to negate what I am saying. I'm dyslexic - grow up!


----------



## JoyJoy

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> You know what - I'm so over stupid remarks about my spelling that try to negate what I am saying. I'm dyslexic - grow up!


There wasn't anything wrong with your spelling...she was trying to lighten things up a bit. She succeeded, at least for me.


----------



## interesting monster

maybe the unicorn was too sad...try a happy one 

View attachment unicorn.jpg


----------



## KevMoney

This is completely beyond control right now. I had a bunch of things to say, but they are irrelevant now. People's emotions are way too on edge now and everyone is jumping down everyone's throat at the drop of a hat. I do think everyone needs to calm the fuck down. You can say whatever you want about this (or me for that matter), but this has evolved into something sophmoric, juvenile, and out-of-control. I see way too many people/relationships being ruined (aside from those from the original PMs, which is a completely different story). 

Shivs has spoken.


----------



## Santaclear

KevMoney said:


> This is completely beyond control right now. I had a bunch of things to say, but they are irrelevant now. People's emotions are way too on edge now and everyone is jumping down everyone's throat at the drop of a hat. I do think everyone needs to calm the fuck down. You can say whatever you want about this (or me for that matter), but this has evolved into something sophmoric, juvenile, and out-of-control. I see way too many people/relationships being ruined (aside from those from the original PMs, which is a completely different story).
> 
> Shivs has spoken.



I'm sorry you're upset. 
*_throws lit match on Shivs*_


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist

You can throw a match on me, but none of those tacky orange robes, 'kay?


----------



## Forgotten_Futures

Two points to present, both on topic.

1) Why am I here?
I came here because, after the now defunct Stuffed Online folded, I was looking for a new site and forums to browse and people to interact with. Despite the obviously different nature of this site compared to the other, I quickly settled on it for its userbase - mostly mature adults, some younger and some older, who appeared to prefer intelligent conversations to going on and on about fattie art and the like. In other words, the atmosphere drew me in.

As far as my interests, I am a tall, relatively thin male into softer women. I have, over the years, found myself questioning more than once if I really belong here, as the majority of the F/FA posters into women SEEM to be into the LARGE woman crowd, whereas I'm generally not. In fact, it's worth noting I tend to take interest in the FFAs more than any other single group here. This is probably a result of my appreciation for the softened female form is just that - an appreciation, and not a requisite. While I will certainly take interest in a plump young woman (who is otherwise attractive), I'll just as easily take interest in one who lacks that attribute. The fact that a fair portion of writing in the Board Library section pertains to the type of BBW I directly admire is one of the main reasons I still bother being here.


2) There's no good way to say this, but I figure now is as good a time as any. I'll be perfectly honest - though I wouldn't have put it in quite the same terms, I do to an extent empathize with the Loves' thoughts (the ones that touched off this mess). In conjunction with part 1... I don't and can't find everything about the large woman's form to be pleasant. I respect your right to be fat, I respect your right to enjoy that fact, I respect that there are other people who enjoy it too...


----------



## LisaInNC

Look, all I know is...I want my fecking cupcakes...now you people better put up or head will roll!!


----------



## Sugar

LisaInNC said:


> Look, all I know is...I want my fecking cupcakes...now you people better put up or head will roll!!


----------



## ripley

Forgotten_Futures said:


> Two points to present, both on topic.
> 
> 1) Why am I here?
> I came here because, after the now defunct Stuffed Online folded, I was looking for a new site and forums to browse and people to interact with. Despite the obviously different nature of this site compared to the other, I quickly settled on it for its userbase - mostly mature adults, some younger and some older, who appeared to prefer intelligent conversations to going on and on about fattie art and the like. In other words, the atmosphere drew me in.
> 
> As far as my interests, I am a tall, relatively thin male into softer women. I have, over the years, found myself questioning more than once if I really belong here, as the majority of the F/FA posters into women SEEM to be into the LARGE woman crowd, whereas I'm generally not. In fact, it's worth noting I tend to take interest in the FFAs more than any other single group here. This is probably a result of my appreciation for the softened female form is just that - an appreciation, and not a requisite. While I will certainly take interest in a plump young woman (who is otherwise attractive), I'll just as easily take interest in one who lacks that attribute. The fact that a fair portion of writing in the Board Library section pertains to the type of BBW I directly admire is one of the main reasons I still bother being here.
> 
> 
> 2) There's no good way to say this, but I figure now is as good a time as any. I'll be perfectly honest - though I wouldn't have put it in quite the same terms, I do to an extent empathize with the Loves' thoughts (the ones that touched off this mess). In conjunction with part 1... I don't and can't find everything about the large woman's form to be pleasant. I respect your right to be fat, I respect your right to enjoy that fact, I respect that there are other people who enjoy it too...





1. "I'm a thin guy here looking to pick up thin women who prefer fat guys" has got to be one of the strangest reasons to be here that I think I'll ever see.

2. No, there is no good way to say it. I'm wondering why you did it anyway. Perhaps the 2loves will put you on their email list?


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

Forgotten_Futures said:


> Two points to present, both on topic.
> 
> 1) Why am I here?
> I came here because, after the now defunct Stuffed Online folded, I was looking for a new site and forums to browse and people to interact with. Despite the obviously different nature of this site compared to the other, I quickly settled on it for its userbase - mostly mature adults, some younger and some older, who appeared to prefer intelligent conversations to going on and on about fattie art and the like. In other words, the atmosphere drew me in.
> 
> As far as my interests, I am a tall, relatively thin male into softer women. I have, over the years, found myself questioning more than once if I really belong here, as the majority of the F/FA posters into women SEEM to be into the LARGE woman crowd, whereas I'm generally not. In fact, it's worth noting I tend to take interest in the FFAs more than any other single group here. This is probably a result of my appreciation for the softened female form is just that - an appreciation, and not a requisite. While I will certainly take interest in a plump young woman (who is otherwise attractive), I'll just as easily take interest in one who lacks that attribute. The fact that a fair portion of writing in the Board Library section pertains to the type of BBW I directly admire is one of the main reasons I still bother being here.
> 
> 
> 2) There's no good way to say this, but I figure now is as good a time as any. I'll be perfectly honest - though I wouldn't have put it in quite the same terms, I do to an extent empathize with the Loves' thoughts (the ones that touched off this mess). In conjunction with part 1... I don't and can't find everything about the large woman's form to be pleasant. I respect your right to be fat, I respect your right to enjoy that fact, I respect that there are other people who enjoy it too...


----------



## activistfatgirl

I wasn't gonna post, but I'll jump into the Crazy and say that I lol-ed so genuinely after reading your post, Shivs.  As a veteran in political and social conflict, let me say there's always a point when people come in after the fighting to chastise all for being out of line and shrilly tell folks to "calm the fuck down". Heeeeeeeeeeehhhheeeeeee. The person(s) who do that are NEVER calm about it themselves in my experience. Dude, that's the whole point, people are invested, and so are you. If we weren't all personally invested in some way with other, well, this wouldn't be a big deal.

I said something to this effect earlier to AM, but will repeat part of it here. There is ALWAYS a silver lining in community conflicts. Sure, they tend to polarize and create opposing parties. There is a bit of that here. Mostly, however, the positive aspects are gonna be here - the feelings of solidarity and realignment to purpose that we will experience. I felt this after logging in today after many days gone - an instant sense of solidarity with my very fat sisters and a renewal of commitment of understanding their struggles and cankley goodness as my own struggles. I really doubt I'm alone in this being a clarifying experience in terms of how we relate to each other in the fatty community. Particularly during the discussions of what is appropriate on the internet in terms of safe space I was really hit with how real this community is and how so very much not online it is for many of us. 

I have no doubt this will continue to be a safe space, and our conversations with each other will continue to be safe insomuch as we demand they are and keep encouraging each other. I'm sorry that many were hurt. Please remember the many, many fatties all around you who do understand how you felt after this and will be with you in working it all out. Onwards and upwards, y'all!


----------



## Angel

It's nice to see how members of this community pull together to support each other. 

You never know, one of us could be the next one needing the support of this community and family.

I'd sure hate to alienate those that have voiced their concerns and shown their support for this community and for what it stands for.


----------



## wistful

Forgotten_Futures said:


> As far as my interests, I am a tall, relatively thin male into softer women. I have, over the years, found myself questioning more than once if I really belong here, as the majority of the F/FA posters into women SEEM to be into the LARGE woman crowd, whereas I'm generally not. In fact, it's worth noting I tend to take interest in the FFAs more than any other single group here.
> 2) There's no good way to say this, but I figure now is as good a time as any. I'll be perfectly honest - though I wouldn't have put it in quite the same terms, I do to an extent empathize with the Loves' thoughts (the ones that touched off this mess). In conjunction with part 1... I don't and can't find everything about the large woman's form to be pleasant. I respect your right to be fat, I respect your right to enjoy that fact, I respect that there are other people who enjoy it too...





You know,it's long been my experience and of course this is just my humble opinion..that when you have to preface a statement with "there's no good way to say this" or "no offense" or "I don't want to hurt your feelings BUT" there's an awfully good chance that what one is about to say is hurtful.The fact that people know enough to put these disclaimers in front of their statements leads me to believe that on some level they realize what they are about to share is not exactly kind.

There are plenty of people in the world, both on-line and out in my day to day life who are not my cup of tea physically.You know what? It's not my job or duty to let them know that.The world is such a hurtful place especially to fat people that why do you have to let someone know that they don't do it for you? You are absolutely entitled to not find supersized women or certain traits of theirs attractive, but do you really have to announce this on a board where you know there are plenty of ssbbws(myself included) around? It's all about common courtesy...Just something to think about.


----------



## JoyJoy

Forgotten_Futures said:


> Two points to present, both on topic.
> 
> 1) Why am I here?
> I came here because, after the now defunct Stuffed Online folded, I was looking for a new site and forums to browse and people to interact with. Despite the obviously different nature of this site compared to the other, I quickly settled on it for its userbase - mostly mature adults, some younger and some older, who appeared to prefer intelligent conversations to going on and on about fattie art and the like. In other words, the atmosphere drew me in.
> 
> As far as my interests, I am a tall, relatively thin male into softer women. I have, over the years, found myself questioning more than once if I really belong here, as the majority of the F/FA posters into women SEEM to be into the LARGE woman crowd, whereas I'm generally not. In fact, it's worth noting I tend to take interest in the FFAs more than any other single group here. This is probably a result of my appreciation for the softened female form is just that - an appreciation, and not a requisite. While I will certainly take interest in a plump young woman (who is otherwise attractive), I'll just as easily take interest in one who lacks that attribute. The fact that a fair portion of writing in the Board Library section pertains to the type of BBW I directly admire is one of the main reasons I still bother being here.
> 
> 
> 2) There's no good way to say this, but I figure now is as good a time as any. I'll be perfectly honest - though I wouldn't have put it in quite the same terms, I do to an extent empathize with the Loves' thoughts (the ones that touched off this mess). In conjunction with part 1... I don't and can't find everything about the large woman's form to be pleasant. I respect your right to be fat, I respect your right to enjoy that fact, I respect that there are other people who enjoy it too...


 Do you need anyone to call you a doctor for that bullet wound in your foot?? Looks kind of nasty.


----------



## largenlovely

lmao that is the funniest thing i've ever heard



ripley said:


> 1. "I'm a thin guy here looking to pick up thin women who prefer fat guys" has got to be one of the strangest reasons to be here that I think I'll ever see.


----------



## PolarKat

just curious.. why are people leaning on this FF fellow but this comment doesn't get a second thought on the thread under this?



> I find fat very feminine. I would guess biologically big hips are good for having children and big boobs are good for making children. How do you get big hips and big boobs? Fat! I think men "look best" when they are athletic and muscular, not that I'm looking. Society agrees with me on the men part but for some reason not on how women should look.


----------



## mango

*Why am I here?

Like I've said in the chatroom many a time, I come for the conversation... but I stay for Booty!




I'm 'dubh'ing this whole episode as Cankle-gate or alternatively, the Loves Affair.


I don't buy love dubh's reason that she was observing our community as some sort of "social/scientific experiment". You don't spend over 2 years participating in all corners of the forum boards, posting pics, making friends and meet up with them on more than one occasion as something insignificant.

As for their punishment - to paraphrase Mr Miyagi in Karate Kid II "embarassment is a worse punishment than death".

:bow:*


----------



## BigCutieSasha

This all makes me sad.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

SocialbFly said:


> well, once again, this clears up a lot for me, when those who have wronged people do nothing to clear up the original problem that is distasteful to me. Once again I say, they know what to do, and i am hoping they have done it...
> 
> We get faced with discrimination everyday...as a SSBBW, try walking down a hallway without someone thinking you dont have a mirror at home...so my answer is, i dont expect or EVER condone it being done in my fricking house...and that is what i consider dimensions (Thanks for sharing Conrad, lol) this is MY house....i contribute to it, i live it, i love it....you dont value it, for whatever fricking reason....
> 
> 
> LEAVE!



Could everyone kindly rep Dianna for me here? I will repay you manyfold. She speaks for the righteous here!

Her dignity smotes all them that do evil!


----------



## Forgotten_Futures

I respect a number of people on this site of varrying size and gender.

I can Accept something without actually exemplifying it, same way I can appreciate someone without actually wanting them. And I do. Hell if I understand it, but it's what makes you happy, so be it. I'd dare half the BBWs on this site (or all of them, even) to check me out and have absolutely zero negative thoughts. It's not happening, so don't turn around and tell me I can't do the same.


----------



## JoyJoy

Forgotten_Futures said:


> I respect a number of people on this site of varrying size and gender. You could be a monumental, physically impossible giant of a fat human communicating solely through a telepathic link due to the loss of use of your arms by way of mounds of soft fat (if there isn't a story with this concept in it yet by the gods I expect one now = P).
> 
> I can Accept something without actually exemplifying it, same way I can appreciate someone without actually wanting them. And I do. Hell if I understand it, but it's what makes you happy, so be it. I'd dare half the BBWs on this site (or all of them, even) to check me out and have absolutely zero negative thoughts. It's not happening, so don't turn around and tell me I can't do the same.


 Exactly what *is* your point? Yes, we all know that no one is going to be attracted to everyone. No one expects that. Read the thread again v-e-r-y carefully and you'll see that that isn't even close to the issue here. I'm certainly not going to hash it out again, but methinks it's gone way over your head.


----------



## Aireman

Ya know, the more I think about it the more I have come to believe that it was a case of "cliqueish"(sp) behavior on the 2Love's part. They don't belong in the BBW community and because of that they were bonding as skinny girls making fun of the Fat Girls. While the PM in question is still inexcusable and dubhs apology lame. I get that BHM's is sorry. Her mistake was in trying to point the finger somewhere else (i.e. I'm sorry. but everyone else is to blame too!)

Insecurity raises it's ugly head and has caused unintenionally, a really cool thread! I have gotten more insite to the people of this community than all the other threads I have read. I think that if anyone still has anger or pain over this and can't forgive/forget the simplest thing to do is block or ignore the user and then move on. 
I :bow: to all who have commented and took the time to be thoughtful and understanding.


----------



## wistful

Forgotten_Futures said:


> I'd dare half the BBWs on this site (or all of them, even) to check me out and have absolutely zero negative thoughts. It's not happening, so don't turn around and tell me I can't do the same.



Forgotten Futures..you're missing the point.I don't care what it is you think..feel free to think whatever you want!! It's what you chose to *share* out loud,where ssbbws can see it that's of concern.Once again..I might see someone who holds zero physical appeal for me,I might even find the thought of being with them in an intimate way distasteful,but I know enough not to voice this thought out loud because I would never,ever want to hurt someone.That's all I'm saying


----------



## Tina

Forgotten_Futures, you are not witty. You are not even in the ballpark of seeming to understand... anything here. I'm already having negative thoughts without even checking you out, but that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. No one is trying to censor thoughts...


----------



## tonynyc

It's knowledgeable- insightful and some of you folks are pretty damn funny. This is better than Hyde Park  

Makes one wish for a "unsend" button option for all future emails. 
It's like one of those Southwest Airlines- "Wanna Getaway" commercials


----------



## Forgotten_Futures

*sighs* I shouldn't have posted here. I'm having a bad week, too many people are forcing drama on me, and the key thing here is someone I liked on the boards has gone and shown herself to be... something else.

I'm taking another hiatus.


----------



## mossystate

vnedpvwe nvkspd vgs vbip sd v[sdoih v hik spsdhiv sd pegtgipv hvip vhsidp v hipsd vsppphy v hsgv[oy nnpposslonnv!!!!!!!!!!!



oops....my brain just shorted out....


----------



## Tina

Forgotten_Futures said:


> *sighs* I shouldn't have posted here. I'm having a bad week, too many people are forcing drama on me, and the key thing here is someone I liked on the boards has gone and shown herself to be... something else.
> 
> I'm taking another hiatus.


I have had enough of those kinds of days where I've wished I could delete half of the idiot things I've written, so I don't mean to be hard on you. I don't know you or what kind of a person you are, so I don't imbue your post with evil intent. I'm sorry for the sarcasm and I do thank you for explaining. It is appreciated.


----------



## Angel

tonynyc said:


> Makes one wish for a "unsend" button option for all future emails.



or a cyber guardian angel dressed as a football player who has the unique ability to reach out or up to intercept misdirected private messages or emails 

or a cyberspace LeBron who can steel 'em and slam dunk 'em into oblivion


----------



## CleverBomb

wistful said:


> Forgotten Futures..you're missing the point.I don't care what it is you think..feel free to think whatever you want!! It's what you chose to *share* out loud,where ssbbws can see it that's of concern.*Once again..I might see someone who holds zero physical appeal for me,I might even find the thought of being with them in an intimate way distasteful*,but I know enough not to voice this thought out loud because I would never,ever want to hurt someone.That's all I'm saying


Someone noticed me! 
*Swoons*

-Rusty
(Now, with Delusions of Reference!)


----------



## KHayes666

Forgotten_Futures said:


> *sighs* I shouldn't have posted here. I'm having a bad week, too many people are forcing drama on me, and the key thing here is someone I liked on the boards has gone and shown herself to be... something else.
> 
> I'm taking another hiatus.



I've met 3 ppl off dimensions who've shown themselves to be not what I thought so don't sweat it. Cool off and come back in a month


----------



## LisaInNC

Lucky said:


>



THAT is what Willis was talking bout!!


----------



## TCUBOB

Oooooo.....sprinkles! But it's no Cakelove cupcake..... <frowny face>



Lucky said:


>


----------



## Fyreflyintheskye

LisaInNC said:


> THAT is what Willis was talking bout!!





Lucky said:


>



I'd hit it


----------



## LillyBBBW

girl_in_the_attic said:


> I'm here to make new friends and maybe find a relationship on here, maybe a feeder if they arent all in for booty call =/. Im hoping this place is more civilized than fantasyfeeder. That place is a mess!



You've come at a messy time girl. You'll have to forgive all the people swinging from the chandeliers here for the moment as people are trying to work out some frustrating crap. It's usually much more orderly around here. Welcome to the formum!


----------



## LillyBBBW

PolarKat said:


> just curious.. why are people leaning on this FF fellow but this comment doesn't get a second thought on the thread under this?



Throw in a, "Fut Bucking Ugly," and a, "Stinky Rat Bastid," and you've got yourself a deal. The two comments are different.


----------



## HeatherBBW

Wow, I just lost a good part of my life reading this thread.

The one thing I feel that was wasn't touched upon is the betrayal of Dimensions and what it's trying to accomplish. I feel betrayed by those who I've had personal interaction with and who I've enjoyed several posts from. It just makes me plain sad. 

It isn't as if someone said they didn't like or prefer something or didn't understand why something looked a certain way. It was basically two people who view in our windows and participate but seem to be actually disgusted and "grossed" out by god knows what else besides cankles. It was hateful, not just an expression of a vanity opinion.

Quite honestly, let's get down to the cankles. Skinny women have them, fat women have them.... it's a trait that is generally handed down through heredity. Whereas thin women have less issues with finding shoes, socks and there over sized ankles don't stand out as much doesn't mean they don't have them. Fat women that have them, just like their bodies, have them even bigger to match the rest of them and they stand out more. But to determine as the PM stated that if you have cankles, your too fat and need WLS. Heck, if I am 600lbs and don't have cankles I should tell my cankle sporting fat friend at 350lbs with huge cankles that she's too fat and should consider WLS?

So anyhoo, I am all over the place. I just know that I feel betrayed and I think many others feel the same way. If they want to voice it, then so be it. If the offending parties want to apologize and rebuild their reputations, then so be it. But all in all, saying that this is a non-issue that we should lock up and not talk about, is in my opinion... ignorant.

In closing, I hope any newbies who are reading this thread that have cankles or enjoy cankles, please stick around. Dimensions is meant for acceptance and things like this can't take that away.


----------



## bexy

just to try to lighten the mood slightly, i just had to spend 40 mins explaining to my boyfriend what a cankle was after he insisted it was a type of fish....


----------



## LillyBBBW

KHayes666 said:


> I've met 3 ppl off dimensions who've shown themselves to be not what I thought so don't sweat it. Cool off and come back in a month



Wha??? Look I told you I look way different without makeup before we met. If you were a little shocked it isn't my fault.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Forgotten_Futures said:


> *sighs* I shouldn't have posted here. I'm having a bad week, too many people are forcing drama on me, and the key thing here is someone I liked on the boards has gone and shown herself to be... something else.
> 
> I'm taking another hiatus.



Are you serious? You come here in the middle of a brawl and say, "I don't mean to offend y'all but....." and you got a pie in the face and you're surprised?


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

bexylicious said:


> just to try to lighten the mood slightly, i just had to spend 40 mins explaining to my boyfriend what a cankle was after he insisted it was a type of fish....



ROFLMAO!! I needed that!


----------



## LoveBHMS

Until a series of events that happened last night, neither LD nor I understood how these PMs got out.

The exchange was mistakenly sent by me to one other person. I went back and forth as to whether or not to reveal her name, and I chose not to. The only reason I am doing so is that I am not going to be accused of to trying to blame her for my words. If anyone is rabidly curious as to who it is, they may contact me and ask. To repeat, her name is not being attached to this explanation because i'm a grown woman and I alone am taking responsibility for the hurt my words caused. Since the safe haven aspect of dims is so important, I will say that she is an active member here and still walks among you. That part is NOT for me to worry about.


I was exchanging PMs with both LD and ______. My inbox had numerous PMs from both people. I saw a thread on that I knew both of them would think was funny. I copied the thread and opened one of my replies from LD, so the copy of the thread would be in a reply to her. The mean PMs were in there, and deleted them, pasted the copied thread's URL, adding ______'s name to the address and hit send, thinking i was sending only the copied thread URL to LD and _______. In my own ignorance, I did not realize that when you think you've deleted text, it still shows up when a thread is forwarded.

I take full and total responsibility for my ignorance.

I take full and total responsibility for the feelings that were hurt.

I am publicly offering a sincere and honest apology to Heather and Ann Marie and Keith. You all were very kind, friendly and welcoming to me and I betrayed your trust and that of your guests. You are right that i had a wonderful time, enjoyed your hospitality, enjoyed the new friends I made (and still enjoy those friendships today). Even FFAs have private prejudices and biases, and I am truly sorry that the revelation of mine has injured you.

I am also offering a sincere, public and heartfelt apology to Ginny. She is right in that we have never liked one another (and this should be obvious to anyone who's read our posts.) My personal dislike however, does not excuse making nasty and prejudcial comments about your body or health condition. As do we all, I have severe issues with my own body image, and all too often, self hatred and fear wind up being displaced onto another. That which we criticize in others is nearly always what we more deeply criticize in ourselves.

That is it guys. For some of you it won't be enough, and I can't do anything about that. There is no pound of flesh to be extracted here, and no scapegoating. Anyone who's ever been in my situation, and more importantly, the *many* of you who are thinking "thank heavens MY private mean shit has never been made public" that's for you to deal with.


----------



## TraciJo67

Hopefully, this thread can now be retired.

Not excusing anyone's behavior, but some of you calling for a pound of flesh in this very thread have made exceedingly rude remarks about other Dims members yourselves. I know it. I've seen you do it. I've done it myself. Fortunately, it appears that my own friends are discreet and do not forward my private messages to them. And I know damn well that I'm not alone in breathing a sigh of relief about that.

I think we've kicked this around long enough. I'm not a moderator, and I don't get to decide this, and I'm well aware of that fact. I am just voicing an opinion here. I'm sick of this thread, and sick of the rampant hypocrisy displayed by some of the members here -- you'd think butter couldn't melt in their mouths, or that they'd never made exceedingly unkind remarks themselves.


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

TraciJo67 said:


> Hopefully, this thread can now be retired.
> 
> Not excusing anyone's behavior, but some of you calling for a pound of flesh in this very thread have made exceedingly rude remarks about other Dims members yourselves. I know it. I've seen you do it. I've done it myself. Fortunately, it appears that my own friends are discreet and do not forward my private messages to them. And I know damn well that I'm not alone in breathing a sigh of relief about that.
> 
> I think we've kicked this around long enough. I'm not a moderator, and I don't get to decide this, and I'm well aware of that fact. I am just voicing an opinion here. I'm sick of this thread, and sick of the rampant hypocrisy displayed by some of the members here -- you'd think butter couldn't melt in their mouths, or that they'd never made exceedingly unkind remarks themselves.



I'm here because I like watching people relish in the fact that for once they're not the ones on the receiving end up a verbal beatdown. <3

As I said earlier. ^^^

SOME people are giving me the vibe that they're loving this because it says

Yes! I talk a tremendous amount of shit, but hey, at least I'm not one of them!

*acts disgusted to distract from this fact*


----------



## Angel

LoveBHMS said:


> I went back and forth as to whether or not to reveal her name, and I chose not to. The only reason I am doing so is that I am not going to be accused of to trying to blame her for my words. If anyone is rabidly curious as to who it is, they may contact me and ask. To repeat, her name is not being attached to this explanation because i'm a grown woman and I alone am taking responsibility for the hurt my words caused. *Since the safe haven aspect of dims is so important, I will say that she is an active member here and still walks among you.* That part is NOT for me to worry about.
> 
> 
> There is no pound of flesh to be extracted here, *and no scapegoating.*




Note the above bold sentence and phrase. Sounds contradictory if you ask me.


Rather than take complete responsibility, put part of the blame on someone else if that makes you feel better.


Hopefully one day you'll both realize what *YOU* have done.


Let me ask you this. Do either of you have a sister or a female best friend? If someone she trusted and thought to be her friend was being two-faced and trashing her behind her back, wouldn't you tell her and warn her? 


What if it was either of you and the other heard what was being said, would you tell the other?


Friends and family watch out for each other and try to protect each other.


Think about it.


edited to add: The person that was trying to warn or protect others was *NOT* the one being malicious. I doubt very much that in warning others that her intent was to hurt or humiliate either of you.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Give me a break. YOU *Love* have no business copping an attitude.

You apologies are void of any real sincerity and I'm sick to death of your excuses. Had this been posted with the very first post here on this subject - I would feel very different. But it wasn't and you didn't care who you hurt.

Why are you still here? We fat chicks obviously disgust you. Can't you just go away??


----------



## LillyBBBW

Angel said:


> Note the above bold sentence and phrase. Sounds contradictory if you ask me.
> 
> 
> Rather than take complete responsibility, put part of the blame on someone else if that makes you feel better.
> 
> 
> Hopefully one day you'll both realize what *YOU* have done.
> 
> 
> Let me ask you this. Do either of you have a sister or a female best friend? If someone she trusted and thought to be her friend was being two-faced and trashing her behind her back, wouldn't you tell her and warn her?
> 
> 
> What if it was either of you and the other heard what was being said, would you tell the other?
> 
> 
> Friends and family watch out for each other and try to protect each other.
> 
> 
> Think about it.



You didn't ask me, but no I wouldn't. My sister is my love and she has certain sensitivities of which I am aware. If I heard a couple of her associates talking about her I would confront them directly and give them a verbal thrashing. If I wasn't satisfied with the result I would report them to HER. I wouldn't release the info to the entire community so that my sister has to look them all in the eye and be reminded of it over and over instead of dealing with the situation in her own way with dignity and privacy and then putting it behind her. This was a hot mess mishandled in my view.


----------



## LisaInNC

I'd like to buy the world a home 
And furnish it with love 
Grow apple trees and honey bees 
And snow white turtle doves. 

I'd like to teach the world to sing 
In perfect harmony 
I'd like to buy the world a Coke 
And keep it company 
That's the real thing. 

Cant we all just hit a bong?
Oops I mean get along?


----------



## Jane

LoveBHMS said:


> Until a series of events that happened last night, neither LD nor I understood how these PMs got out.
> 
> The exchange was mistakenly sent by me to one other person. I went back and forth as to whether or not to reveal her name, and I chose not to. The only reason I am doing so is that I am not going to be accused of to trying to blame her for my words. If anyone is rabidly curious as to who it is, they may contact me and ask. To repeat, her name is not being attached to this explanation because i'm a grown woman and I alone am taking responsibility for the hurt my words caused. Since the safe haven aspect of dims is so important, I will say that she is an active member here and still walks among you. That part is NOT for me to worry about.
> 
> 
> I was exchanging PMs with both LD and ______. My inbox had numerous PMs from both people. I saw a thread on that I knew both of them would think was funny. I copied the thread and opened one of my replies from LD, so the copy of the thread would be in a reply to her. The mean PMs were in there, and deleted them, pasted the copied thread's URL, adding ______'s name to the address and hit send, thinking i was sending only the copied thread URL to LD and _______. In my own ignorance, I did not realize that when you think you've deleted text, it still shows up when a thread is forwarded.
> 
> I take full and total responsibility for my ignorance.
> 
> I take full and total responsibility for the feelings that were hurt.
> 
> I am publicly offering a sincere and honest apology to Heather and Ann Marie and Keith. You all were very kind, friendly and welcoming to me and I betrayed your trust and that of your guests. You are right that i had a wonderful time, enjoyed your hospitality, enjoyed the new friends I made (and still enjoy those friendships today). Even FFAs have private prejudices and biases, and I am truly sorry that the revelation of mine has injured you.
> 
> I am also offering a sincere, public and heartfelt apology to Ginny. She is right in that we have never liked one another (and this should be obvious to anyone who's read our posts.) My personal dislike however, does not excuse making nasty and prejudcial comments about your body or health condition. As do we all, I have severe issues with my own body image, and all too often, self hatred and fear wind up being displaced onto another. That which we criticize in others is nearly always what we more deeply criticize in ourselves.
> 
> That is it guys. For some of you it won't be enough, and I can't do anything about that. There is no pound of flesh to be extracted here, and no scapegoating. Anyone who's ever been in my situation, and more importantly, the *many* of you who are thinking "thank heavens MY private mean shit has never been made public" that's for you to deal with.



That sounds like a heartfelt apology and I hope people would take it as such.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

No no noI have no malomars in the house right now!:eat2:




LisaInNC said:


> I'd like to buy the world a home
> And furnish it with love
> Grow apple trees and honey bees
> And snow white turtle doves.
> 
> I'd like to teach the world to sing
> In perfect harmony
> I'd like to buy the world a Coke
> And keep it company
> That's the real thing.
> 
> Cant we all just hit a bong?
> Oops I mean get along?


----------



## Jane

LillyBBBW said:


> You didn't ask me, but no I wouldn't. My sister is my love and she has certain sensitivities of which I am aware. If I heard a couple of her associates talking about her I would confront them directly and give them a verbal thrashing. If I wasn't satisfied with the result I would report them to HER.



That would be my tactic.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

In order not to continue the anamosity (sp?) or to continue being pissed off. I'm not going to post in this thread anymore. I'm too angry and I need to just walk away.

Sorry folks if my posts made anyone uncomfortable.

*done*


----------



## Angel

LillyBBBW said:


> You didn't ask me, but no I wouldn't. My sister is my love and she has certain sensitivities of which I am aware. If I heard a couple of her associates talking about her I would confront them directly and give them a verbal thrashing. If I wasn't satisfied with the result I would report them to HER. I wouldn't release the info to the entire community so that my sister has to look them all in the eye and be reminded of it over and over instead of dealing with the situation in her own way with dignity and privacy and then putting it behind her. This was a hot mess mishandled in my view.



In a one-on-one irl situation, that would probably be best.

Even if others found out, your sister wouldn't have been the one in the wrong or the one that would have anything to be ashamed about.


In the situation here with the pm or email, I don't know how the information was spread. I didn't know anything about it until this thread, and all I know is what's in this thread. I highly doubt that the third party who received the pm or email single handedly 'informed' everyone who eventually found out about it.

Yes, it may have been mishandled, but as a community and family I think we are better off knowing who can and can't be trusted here at Dimensions, and who does or doesn't have our best interests (collectively!) at heart.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Angel said:


> In a one-on-one irl situation, that would probably be best.
> 
> Even if others found out, your sister wouldn't have been the one in the wrong or the one that would have anything to be ashamed about.
> 
> 
> In the situation here with the pm or email, I don't know how the information was spread. I didn't know anything about it until this thread, and all I know is what's in this thread. I highly doubt that the third party who received the pm or email single handedly 'informed' everyone who eventually found out about it.
> 
> Yes, it may have been mishandled, *but as a community and family I think we are better off knowing* who can and can't be trusted here at Dimensions, and who does or doesn't have our best interests (collectively!) at heart.



So the dignity and privacy of the offended parties is merely a formality in the way of the general need for the community to be in on it? I'm sorry Angel but I just cannot agree with you there.

EDIT: I don't know about anyone else but I was pretty much already annoyed with LBHMS with her high kicking around here about BMI and family interventions for the obese. She's been pretty transparent with her feelings so the revelation was shocking but not a surprise. LD had a personal relationship with one of the offended that was shattered and devastating as I'd imagine. Really, I would imagine that it would have been faced easier without 2000 people watching and snerky insensitive people being able flatulate their opinions on it.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Santaclear said:


> I'm sorry you're upset.
> *_throws lit match on Shivs*_



Oh, how badly I am cursing those rep gods right now between fits of juvenile laughter......


----------



## Angel

LillyBBBW said:


> So the dignity and privacy of the offended parties is merely a formality in the way of the general need for the community to be in on it?





I didn't mean _that_!!!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

CleverBomb said:


> Someone noticed me!
> *Swoons*
> 
> -Rusty
> (Now, with Delusions of Reference!)




All I have mostly seen of you, Rusty, is your words. They always have me all a-flutter :wubu:


----------



## Tina

Were it me who was being talked about, I would want to know. Screw dignity and all that, because in the end, it's over a characteristic a number of fat people have. It easily could have been about fat asses and there I'd be. But I wouldn't be embarrassed or feel my privacy and dignity had been compromised, I would feel grateful that a community surrounded me with care, as we do Ginny and AnnMarie. Let's face it, people talk about us all the time, but usually it's in the outside world, not here, where it's supposed to be at least some kind of refuge. It could have been any of us being talked about. I want to know when that happens, even though it's sad beyond words.

I don't know who first received the PM and I don't care. That person is not the one I hold responsible, it's the people having the original conversation -- and not because I've never said a negative thing about anyone -- that's far from the truth, I'm just as human as most people there -- but that there are a couple of people for whom this place was a masquerade ball (especially Dubh, who evidently is a compartmentalized social scientist...:blink, only they were the only ones having fun at the party. Party's over and I'm fine with it. No, I'm not fine with hurt feelings -- at all. But I am fine with knowing the truth.

I have had to be the bearer of very bad news before, and it's always a terrible position to be in. Do you say something and potentially hurt them and cause trouble? Or do you not say something and then down the line something happens and I would have been able to maybe prevent it but didn't. No, I do not blame that person at all, because I know in my own way what an awful position that person was in, whomever it was.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Tina said:


> Were it me who was being talked about, I would want to know. Screw dignity and all that, because in the end, it's over a characteristic a number of fat people have. It easily could have been about fat asses and there I'd be. But I wouldn't be embarrassed or feel my privacy and dignity had been compromised, I would feel grateful that a community surrounded me with care, as we do Ginny and AnnMarie. I don't know who first received the PM and I don't care. That person is not the one I hold responsible, it's the people having the original conversation -- and not because I've never said a negative thing about anyone -- that's far from the truth, I'm just as human as most people there -- but that there are a couple of people for whom this place was a masquerade ball (especially Dubh, who evidently is a compartmentalized social scientist...:blink, only they were the only ones having fun at the party. Party's over and I'm fine with it. No, I'm not fine with hurt feelings -- at all. But I am fine with knowing the truth.
> 
> I have had to be the bearer of very bad news before, and it's always a terrible position to be in. Do you say something and potentially hurt them and cause trouble? Or do you not say something and then down the line something happens and I would have been able to maybe prevent it but didn't. No, I do not blame that person at all, because I know in my own way what an awful position that person was in, whomever it was.



Tina, not everyone would feel like you. I wouldn't. The point is YOU should have been given the choice instead of having the decision made for you.


----------



## bigsexy920

To the person that did out these woman I say thank you - It couldnt have been an easy choice knowing that there would be conflict because of the privacy part of it all.


----------



## TotallyReal

Great question, original poster! I'm here because I like fat girls!

Hey, what are these other 240 posts about?


----------



## Angel

Tina said:


> Or do you not say something and then down the line something happens and I would have been able to maybe prevent it but didn't.



I would rather be told, too. If I consider someone a peer, colleague, or friend and I put my trust in them and confide in them, I do not want to be the object of their malicious or childish behavior. I don't think anyone wants to be made a fool. 

As far as telling someone you have a close relationship with, what if you don't, and the malicious and childish behavior continues and escalates? They could very well be hurt far worse; and then if they find out that you knew and that you could have saved them some grief? How would they then feel about you; and how would you feel about yourself?

Malicious and childish behavior can very well push someone (the intended target) over the edge. It's like bullying. If not stopped, it continues to escalate.

Me? I'd rather protect someone I care about than to see them suffer something possibly far worse than what a little hurt or embarassment may bring.


----------



## Tina

I know that not everyone feels as I do -- I understand that. It's why I gave my opinion and perspective and no one else's. You have a right to your feelings and opinion, Lilly. I do, too. 

When a person is in such a position, they are damned if they do and damned if they don't, no matter what they do. Whomever it is who received this PM, I just want you to know if you're reading that I understand your position. It can be excruciating to be the one in the middle in an equation like that and I empathize. I personally do not blame you.


----------



## Wagimawr

Tina said:


> Were it me who was being talked about, I would want to know.





LillyBBBW said:


> Tina, not everyone would feel like you. I wouldn't.





Tina said:


> I know that not everyone feels as I do -- I understand that. It's why I gave my opinion and perspective and no one else's. You have a right to your feelings and opinion, Lilly. I do, too.



Is this exchange really necessary?

I respect both of you, but all these posts illustrate is "my opinions are mine only and not intended to reflect the majority opinion".

Shouldn't that be UNDERSTOOD when one person speaks their mind, rather than assuming that, just because ONE person says ONE thing, that they're trying to apply it to the depth and breadth of all humankind?

This is the same issue I have with people who impulsively throw in an "IM(H)O" into everything of meaning they have to say.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Wagimawr said:


> Is this exchange really necessary?
> 
> I respect both of you, but all these posts illustrate is "my opinions are mine only and not intended to reflect the majority opinion".
> 
> Shouldn't that be UNDERSTOOD when one person speaks their mind, rather than assuming that, just because ONE person says ONE thing, that they're trying to apply it to the depth and breadth of all humankind?
> 
> This is the same issue I have with people who impulsively throw in an "IM(H)O" into everything of meaning they have to say.



The point was that people deal with things differently therefore it would have been nice if it had been left up to the parties involved to make that call based on their own feelings. The point was not, "No my feelings," "No, MY feelings," "Yeah but my feelings."


----------



## PolarKat

LillyBBBW said:


> Throw in a, "Fut Bucking Ugly," and a, "Stinky Rat Bastid," and you've got yourself a deal. The two comments are different.


That's infered, he didn't say those things.. I'd like to take this further but not in this thread, if you read what he said objectively he was just stating his preference, he didn't say that women "should" conform to something vs. the other actually did say men "should" have to conform.. not really the issue, but I've just realised how a person percieves an insult is really based on perception and life experience. While I found the others person comment quite offensive, you found it neutral, etc..


----------



## Wagimawr

LillyBBBW said:


> The point was that people deal with things differently therefore it would have been nice if it had been left up to the parties involved to make that call based on their own feelings. The point was not, "No my feelings," "No, MY feelings," "Yeah but my feelings."


And I totally agree with that.

My point was a larger one re: argumentation in general.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Wagimawr said:


> And I totally agree with that.
> 
> My point was a larger one re: argumentation in general.



Not for you, in your opinion, bla bla bla.


----------



## Wagimawr

eh?

*confuzzled*


----------



## Tina

LillyBBBW said:


> The point was that people deal with things differently therefore it would have been nice if it had been left up to the parties involved to make that call based on their own feelings. The point was not, "No my feelings," "No, MY feelings," "Yeah but my feelings."





Wagimawr said:


> And I totally agree with that.
> 
> My point was a larger one re: argumentation in general.



She was joshin' ya, Wag. 

I get what you're saying, and I agree with Lilly. Just giving differing opinions, not, from my perspective, arguing. Lilly, were we arguing? Didn't feel like it. Anyway, I also try to take extra care to speak for myself and not as a mod when I'm speaking for myself, and not as a mod. There, how's that for confuzzled? 

For me, it was also an effort to try to say that I'm not speaking with any authority, just that it's my own perspective. Sometimes we mods have to be careful with that stuff. I don't always think about it, though. It's the gentler version of the disclaimer you see on DVDs and other things that relieve the distributor (or Conrad, as the case may be) from any responsibility for what is said in a movie (or by a mod), or extra materials.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Wagimawr said:


> eh?
> 
> *confuzzled*



I was just pulling your chain Wag. Seriously, it's just a conversation between two freinds. Nothing to see here really. I'm sorry it has soiled your vision.


----------



## Jack Skellington

Wagimawr said:


> eh?
> 
> *confuzzled*



Welcome to my world. But unlike you, I'm totally good with it.


----------



## Wagimawr

Tina said:


> She was joshin' ya, Wag.
> 
> I get what you're saying, and I agree with Lilly. Just giving differing opinions, not, from my perspective, arguing. Lilly, were we arguing? Didn't feel like it. Anyway, I also try to take extra care to speak for myself and not as a mod when I'm speaking for myself, and not as a mod. There, how's that for confuzzled?





LillyBBBW said:


> I was just pulling your chain Wag. Seriously, it's just a conversation between two freinds. Nothing to see here really. I'm sorry it has soiled your vision.


I'm aware it was a joke, I just couldn't find it funny through lack of comprehension  nothing soiled either.

I just saw it as two very smart people adhering to a very silly idea, that somehow somebody must ensure that they're not speaking for a majority when they're not a majority, and it bothered me a little bit. Didn't even think about the whole Tina being authority (you're too nice!) part, but it makes sense.

IM(H)O. (*stabs self in face*)


Jack Skellington said:


> Welcome to my world. But unlike you, I'm totally good with it.


bite me, jack. 

OOH, CONTROVERSY


----------



## Jack Skellington

Wagimawr said:


> bite me, jack.



Not without dinner and movie first.


----------



## Greti

I am here because my girl has a fetish , and i had never even heard of such things , I am actually an inactive anorexic , meaning i now eat when im hungry , and , because i love her dearly , I wanted to learn more about such things.
I am VERY pleased to see a place where people can be who they are and be happy no matter what size of clothing they wear , it really is refreshing.
I have so much respect for everyone here , and i hope to learn so much from yall.


----------



## Famouslastwords




----------



## LalaCity

Wagimawr said:


> This is the same issue I have with people who impulsively throw in an "IM(H)O" into everything of meaning they have to say.



If people don't throw in that disclaimer, the next thing they know, they're being leapt on with "That's just YOUR opinion." It may seem annoying that people feel the need to clarify that their sentiments represent only their opinions, but it works to avert the two or three tiresome and needless exchanges that will no doubt follow -- i.e., "That's not fact!" "I know, that was just my opinion." "Well, you should have said so in the first place." "OK, sorry.." etc.

Apologies if this post was, in itself, tiresome and needless....


----------



## LillyBBBW

LalaCity said:


> If people don't throw in that disclaimer, the next thing they know, they're being leapt on with "That's just YOUR opinion." It may seem annoying that people feel the need to clarify that their sentiments represent only their opinions, but it works to avert the two or three tiresome and needless exchanges that will no doubt follow -- i.e., "That's not fact!" "I know, that was just my opinion." "Well, you should have said so in the first place." "OK, sorry.." etc.
> 
> Apologies if this post was, in itself, tiresome and needless....



No, it was needed. It has happend where I thought not to bother putting it in this time because its understood but then a, "How dare you of all the nerve!" post followed. Now I feel it is absolutely necessary to put it in EACH and EVERY time. IMO.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

How does the "ignore" function work? Does that just mean someone can't PM me ? Or I can't see their posts? They can't see mine? What's the effect? I was just wondering if the "loves" would feel honored by becoming the most ignored Dimmers in history?

I realize mere ostracism doesn't match the offense but after a brief private exchange with LoveBHMS I feel the need to take some more overt and tangible action. She is, imo, toxically self-absorbed. There is no need for any of us here to wish her an unhappy life. I'm certain she'll take care of that quite well for herself. I do however feel the need to exclude her from my world as comprehensively as possible. Any action is better than only words. "ignore"


----------



## LoveBHMS

If anyone is interested in knowing the text of the PMs that Mr. Nagel is referencing, feel free to PM me.


----------



## mango

*Cankle Fetishists Rejoice Over AC Brick Spy Camera

http://gizmodo.com/382534/cankle-fetishists-rejoice-over-ac-brick-spy-camera

*


----------



## Jane

Ernest Nagel said:


> How does the "ignore" function work? Does that just mean someone can't PM me ? Or I can't see their posts? They can't see mine? What's the effect? I was just wondering if the "loves" would feel honored by becoming the most ignored Dimmers in history?
> 
> I realize mere ostracism doesn't match the offense but after a brief private exchange with LoveBHMS I feel the need to take some more overt and tangible action. She is, imo, toxically self-absorbed. There is no need for any of us here to wish her an unhappy life. I'm certain she'll take care of that quite well for herself. I do however feel the need to exclude her from my world as comprehensively as possible. Any action is better than only words. "ignore"



My God, you really do have Okie in you don't you!! LOL

Sorry, it just stuck me as precisely how I would say something, well, unless I just said my usual expletives and meandered on my way.


----------



## mossystate

If anybody is interested in my recipe for boiled water...PM me.


----------



## TraciJo67

mossystate said:


> If anybody is interested in my recipe for boiled water...PM me.



I'm damn interested, but I'm afraid that the contents of my PM to you may leak. Please post the recipe here, with pics too, please. Thanks!


----------



## mossystate

TraciJo67 said:


> I'm damn interested, but I'm afraid that the contents of my PM to you may leak. Please post the recipe here, with pics too, please. Thanks!




Ok..well..first you take a ______..and then you put it on your_____..after the temperature has reached______....you stick your______in the______ and, depending on how much it hurts, you yank your_____ from the ______.

Bon Appetite!!

oh..and...every PM you have ever sent?...making the rounds..I sprung a leak....ssssssssssssss


----------



## Ernest Nagel

Cool! I just saw this in the thread - "This message is hidden because LoveBHMS is on your ignore list." I know it isn't much but this makes me strangely happy. If anyone else wants to do this just go to User CP and click on buddy/ignore list. It's easy and it's FUN. OK, maybe it's a _little_ childish but this person absolutely doesn't get it. Why should I listen to anything she has to say? Frankly, why should anyone here? If you agree with me please send her a message that keeps on ignoring. :bow:


----------



## TraciJo67

mossystate said:


> oh..and...every PM you have ever sent?...making the rounds..I sprung a leak....ssssssssssssss



Please ... just not the one about how I hate everything, everyone and everything, so please don't tell me everything is wonderful now.


----------



## Surlysomething

Just. Wow.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

TraciJo67 said:


> I'm damn interested, but I'm afraid that the contents of my PM to you may leak. Please post the recipe here, with pics too, please. Thanks!



http://www.depend.com/ Oh, wait, you said _P_M. Never sure with you two.


----------



## mossystate

TraciJo67 said:


> Please ... just not the one about how I hate everything, everyone and everything, so please don't tell me everything is wonderful now.



Sorry..did you say something?


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

So, I was watching wheel of fortune last night and .. seriously .. 
I AM HIGHLY DISTURBED.

*screen shot*


----------



## TraciJo67

Ernest Nagel said:


> Cool! I just saw this in the thread - "This message is hidden because LoveBHMS is on your ignore list." I know it isn't much but this makes me strangely happy. If anyone else wants to do this just go to User CP and click on buddy/ignore list. It's easy and it's FUN. OK, maybe it's a _little_ childish but this person absolutely doesn't get it. Why should I listen to anything she has to say? Frankly, why should anyone here? If you agree with me please send her a message that keeps on ignoring. :bow:



I think we should all put everyone on ignore. Think of the zany conversations we'd have, if we didn't know what anyone else was saying. Reminds me of the hilarity that would ensue when my nearly deaf father would be holding court with his equally deaf brother. Both would be having incredibly loud, heated, and opinionated conversations with each other ... only they'd be talking about two completely different issues altogether, and neither one of them had ... a ... clue. 

Yeah, let's do it. Let's put EVERYONE on ignore, but for good measure let's take a few potshots at each other first.

ETA: I see you've started already, Ernest!


----------



## mossystate

NO..that's NOT what I said!!! THe guy would NOT refund me for the nose hair I found in my Jamba Juice. I THINK I SAID as much!!!!!


----------



## TraciJo67

mossystate said:


> NO..that's NOT what I said!!! THe guy would NOT refund me for the nose hair I found in my Jamba Juice. I THINK I SAID as much!!!!!




How do you know that it was a nose hair? Did it carry an attachment? 

Oh wait ... this isn't the "tell me something disgusting" thread. 

Oh wait ... maybe, just maybe, it is.


----------



## stan_der_man

mossystate said:


> If anybody is interested in my recipe for boiled water...PM me.



If I can do this in our microwave a PMeroo is headed your way! 

Thx... 



TraciJo67 said:


> I think we should all put everyone on ignore. Think of the zany conversations we'd have, if we didn't know what anyone else was saying. ...



I think we've had a "talk at each other thread" before...? If so we are long over due for another one...    



Or maybe if we just send emoticons to each other.. that would save the typing...   :happy:


----------



## TraciJo67

fa_man_stan said:


> Or maybe if we just send emoticons to each other.. that would save the typing...   :happy:



:blink:

Just ... no lolcats. Please. PLEASE!


----------



## Famouslastwords

I disagree with Traci...lolcats rock! 

View attachment shes a woman.jpg


----------



## LoveBHMS

Ernest Nagel said:


> Cool! I just saw this in the thread - "This message is hidden because LoveBHMS is on your ignore list." I know it isn't much but this makes me strangely happy. If anyone else wants to do this just go to User CP and click on buddy/ignore list. It's easy and it's FUN. OK, maybe it's a _little_ childish but this person absolutely doesn't get it. Why should I listen to anything she has to say? Frankly, why should anyone here? If you agree with me please send her a message that keeps on ignoring. :bow:



You've been on here for 2 years and just learned to use the ignore function?

Wow.


----------



## largenlovely

and you've been here HOW long and are making fun of fat women?

wow



LoveBHMS said:


> You've been on here for 2 years and just learned to use the ignore function?
> 
> Wow.


----------



## mossystate

Now we are cookin with gas.


----------



## TraciJo67

largenlovely said:


> and you've been here HOW long and are making fun of fat women?
> 
> wow



Oh SNAP! 

Psst ... Love ... door ... ass ... way out. Seriously. Yeah, really.


----------



## LalaCity

Now is the time for me to issue that statement which will unite us and put all enmity to rest. Indeed, 'tis time for a post which, in its solemn, yet breathtaking, humanity, will serve as a beacon of forgiveness -- not only for these boards, yea for all mankind...

..except, now that I think of it, Ernest Nagel once sent me a PM telling me that my communication skills needed some work...

So nevermind.


----------



## JoyJoy

LoveBHMS said:


> You've been on here for 2 years and just learned to use the ignore function?
> 
> Wow.


Don't you feel privileged to be the first one he's felt the need to ignore? Such an honor!


----------



## TraciJo67

LalaCity said:


> Now is the time for me to issue that statement which will unite us and put all enmity to rest. Indeed, 'tis time for a post which, in its solemn, yet breathtaking, humanity, will serve as a beacon of forgiveness -- not only for these boards, yea for all mankind...
> 
> ..except, now that I think of it, Ernest Nagel once sent me a PM telling me that my communication skills needed some work...
> 
> So nevermind.



There ain't nothin' that needs expressin' that can't be perfectly expressed with a lolcat.


----------



## Mishty

Conflict Management Skills:happy:


----------



## TraciJo67

I just made ferocious love to a jar of Jif peanut butter, and while I'm sated and happy, I'm also a sticky mess.

ETA: Oops. Meant that for Mossy's PM box ... how the hell did it land here?


----------



## Ernest Nagel

TraciJo67 said:


> I think we should all put everyone on ignore. Think of the zany conversations we'd have, if we didn't know what anyone else was saying. Reminds me of the hilarity that would ensue when my nearly deaf father would be holding court with his equally deaf brother. Both would be having incredibly loud, heated, and opinionated conversations with each other ... only they'd be talking about two completely different issues altogether, and neither one of them had ... a ... clue.
> 
> Yeah, let's do it. Let's put EVERYONE on ignore, but for good measure let's take a few potshots at each other first.
> 
> ETA: I see you've started already, Ernest!



Just for the record I've never felt the need or the interest in putting anyone on "ignore". LoveBHMS doesn't feel she needs to leave this community, nor do the mods. Based on my exchange with her today I felt compelled to take some other action than the verbal flagellation that seems so popular. I'm suggesting we collectively turn our backs on her to send a message she seems otherwise unwilling to grasp. If you disagree don't comply. Bake her a cake for all I care. 

Please don't mischaracterize what I've suggested. I assume the ignore function exists so we don't have to suffer trolls in our presence? This seems to me to be a reasonable application. I would never advocate using ignore simply because I disagree with someone. I do think there are times when someone isn't listening that cutting off communication is the only solution available. 

I'll acknowledge I want to hurt her because of how she has hurt people I care about and a community I regard very highly. I also know I want closure in this matter. If the ignore function can help provide that for anyone and also send a message then consider using it. I'll say no more about it. :bow:


----------



## mossystate

TraciJo67 said:


> I just made ferocious love to a jar of Jif peanut butter, and while I'm sated and happy, I'm also a sticky mess.
> 
> ETA: Oops. Meant that for Mossy's PM box ... how the hell did it land here?




Keep your sticky mess out of my box....the cleaners were none too happy about the last emission they had to deal with...k?

omg...I so just sounded like a certain Dimmer!!


----------



## TraciJo67

Ernest Nagel said:


> Just for the record I've never felt the need or the interest in putting anyone on "ignore". LoveBHMS doesn't feel she needs to leave this community, nor do the mods. Based on my exchange with her today I felt compelled to take some other action than the verbal flagellation that seems so popular. I'm suggesting we collectively turn our backs on her to send a message she seems otherwise unwilling to grasp. If you disagree don't comply. Bake her a cake for all I care.
> 
> Please don't mischaracterize what I've suggested. I assume the ignore function exists so we don't have to suffer trolls in our presence? This seems to me to be a reasonable application. I would never advocate using ignore simply because I disagree with someone. I do think there are times when someone isn't listening that cutting off communication is the only solution available.
> 
> I'll acknowledge I want to hurt her because of how she has hurt people I care about and a community I regard very highly. I also know I want closure in this matter. If the ignore function can help provide that for anyone and also send a message then consider using it. I'll say no more about it. :bow:



Ernest. She had a private conversation with you. PM. Private. Why do you feel the need to plaster (via innuendo) contents of said private conversation in this thread? 

She's down for the count. No credibility. Few remaining friends. No chance of ever sharing her opinions again without those thoughts being open for ridicule and speculation about what she *really* meant. We all know this. I'm pointing out the obvious, really. What you've just done seems needlessly cruel to me. Dead horse, meet gigantic flogging instrument. But hey -- Ernest Nagel jumped on the bandwagon!


----------



## Tina

Wagimawr said:


> IM(H)O. (*stabs self in face*)


Tried to rep you for my first Dims laugh of the day but I'm fresh out, dammit. 

And thanks, Wag.


Ernest Nagel said:


> Just for the record I've never felt the need or the interest in putting anyone on "ignore". LoveBHMS doesn't feel she needs to leave this community, nor do the mods.


Please do not speak for us, and from my perspective, for me. That isn't exactly what I've said. Let your own opinion stand on its own merit, and do not bring me into this in order to shore up your own argument.


----------



## stan_der_man

mossystate said:


> Now we are cookin with gas.



Oh bummer... my wife hates when I do gas.


Never mind.



Famouslastwords said:


> I disagree with Traci...lolcats rock!



I disagree with your disagreement of Traci's dislike with lolcats...


LOL



LalaCity said:


> Now is the time for me to issue that statement which will unite us and put all enmity to rest. Indeed, 'tis time for a post which, in its solemn, yet breathtaking, humanity, will serve as a beacon of forgiveness -- not only for these boards, yea for all mankind...
> 
> ..except, now that I think of it, Ernest Nagel once sent me a PM telling me that my communication skills needed some work...
> 
> So nevermind.



As for this issue of communication LalaCity... Personally, I have found your statements to be articulate, encompassing of the topic at hand, often times witty, quite matter of fact, and for that matter quite factual. When one attempts to unify all the elements of humanity, especially when they be of differing opinion, one has to use this skills which you possess, that of articulation, encompassment of topic etc... Many times I have that Earnest to be lacking of these skills himself, so basically who the hell is he to be shooting you down like that? 

You know what I'm saying...!?


----------



## stan_der_man

Tina said:


> Tried to rep you for my first Dims laugh of the day but I'm fresh out, dammit.
> 
> And thanks, Wag.



I gave him a reparoonie for you lovely Tina chick!


----------



## Tina

Thanks, Stan. 

(Pepto! Gah!)


----------



## stan_der_man

Tina said:


> ...
> (Pepto! Gah!)



No no no no no no... pepto pink! pepto pink!


Think Pink! 


Hey.. I didn't have a cankle to take a picture of... that's the best I could do.


----------



## Fyreflyintheskye

LisaInNC said:


> I'd like to buy the world a home
> And furnish it with love
> Grow apple trees and honey bees
> And snow white turtle doves.
> 
> I'd like to teach the world to sing
> In perfect harmony
> I'd like to buy the world a Coke
> And keep it company
> That's the real thing.
> 
> Cant we all just hit a bong?
> Oops I mean get along?




"Coke is what the world wants today"



_*sneezes and drops tambourine*_


----------



## Jane

Ernest Nagel said:


> Please don't mischaracterize what I've suggested. I assume the ignore function exists so we don't have to suffer trolls in our presence?



Not me, I fight with the trolls and ignore people I know.


----------



## Fyreflyintheskye

TotallyReal said:


> Great question, original poster! I'm here because I like fat girls!
> 
> Hey, what are these other 240 posts about?




-
--
---
LMAO


----------



## KHayes666

largenlovely said:


> and you've been here HOW long and are making fun of fat women?
> 
> wow



lol hey now, I've been doin it for longer and I;m still here.....*ducks and hides when the mods show up*


----------



## Jane

TraciJo67 said:


> I just made ferocious love to a jar of Jif peanut butter, and while I'm sated and happy, I'm also a sticky mess.
> 
> ETA: Oops. Meant that for Mossy's PM box ... how the hell did it land here?



Evidently you got your da**ed peanut butter in my computer, because it's running like it had peanut butter...Oh, hell, I couldn't even come up with a good analogy.

Just f**k it.


----------



## largenlovely

yeah but we all know it's cuz you wanna DO us lol



KHayes666 said:


> lol hey now, I've been doin it for longer and I;m still here.....*ducks and hides when the mods show up*


----------



## KHayes666

largenlovely said:


> yeah but we all know it's cuz you wanna DO us lol



ok, ya got me there *hugs*


----------



## Famouslastwords

Maybe they wanna DO us. Hey! I think we've stumbled on some truth!


----------



## Fyreflyintheskye

mango said:


> *Cankle Fetishists Rejoice Over AC Brick Spy Camera
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/382534/cankle-fetishists-rejoice-over-ac-brick-spy-camera
> 
> *



Psh, you were linked there from the foot fetish site you were already on before... er... the most recent fourteen pages of this thread were posted. 

I know you!


----------



## largenlovely

lol that's a whole other thread...or perhaps Jerry Springer episode



Famouslastwords said:


> Maybe they wanna DO us. Hey! I think we've stumbled on some truth!


----------



## Fyreflyintheskye

mossystate said:


> Ok..well..first you take a ______..and then you put it on your_____..after the temperature has reached______....you stick your______in the______ and, depending on how much it hurts, you yank your_____ from the ______.
> 
> Bon Appetite!!
> 
> oh..and...every PM you have ever sent?...making the rounds..I sprung a leak....ssssssssssssss



!!!

I ___ I have to change my ____ies.


----------



## Jane

I'm here for the free nachos and marguarita happy hour.


----------



## Fyreflyintheskye

Missblueyedeath said:


> Conflict Management Skills:happy:



hey Squishy, I miss you :happy: whereyah been? Courage is on. I gtg


----------



## mossystate

Jane said:


> I'm here for the free nachos and marguarita happy hour.




This being Seis de Mayo..all nachos are half off..and...stale!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

TotallyReal said:


> Great question, original poster! I'm here because I like fat girls!
> 
> Hey, what are these other 240 posts about?




They are about the fat girls you're here for.....


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Jack Skellington said:


> Not without dinner and movie first.




YOU get dinner and a movie for that.......





and I thought I was ahead of my game when I held out for a moon pie...:doh:


----------



## Ernest Nagel

Ernest Nagel said:


> I've been chided for my overlong posts so I'll try to be brief. Trust and friendship are inherently risky, online even more so. For myself I choose to take people at face value unless they give me good reason to do otherwise. The comfort and closeness gained from the majority far outweighs the bitterness of an occasional betrayal. No harm has been done here that we don't deepen with suspicion and distrust.
> 
> I therefore summon my formidable threadkilling power and ask that we let this go. The shit's outta the goose, as we say in Oklahoma. Nothing to be gained by wallowing in it. :bow:
> 
> "We are only falsehood, duplicity, contradiction; we both conceal and disguise ourselves from ourselves." ~ Blaise Pascal



Again, for the record, this was my first post in this thread. I've been following it with some consternation and am appalled at how long it has gone on and how much the hurt keeps getting rehashed. 



TraciJo67 said:


> Ernest. She had a private conversation with you. PM. Private. Why do you feel the need to plaster (via innuendo) contents of said private conversation in this thread?
> 
> She's down for the count. No credibility. Few remaining friends. No chance of ever sharing her opinions again without those thoughts being open for ridicule and speculation about what she *really* meant. We all know this. I'm pointing out the obvious, really. What you've just done seems needlessly cruel to me. Dead horse, meet gigantic flogging instrument. But hey -- Ernest Nagel jumped on the bandwagon!



I honestly thought this might help bring some closure, put some brakes on the f*cking bandwagon. LoveBHMS is still defending herself. I find that to be indefensible of itself. Is it "needlessly cruel" to say I'm simply not interested in hearing more of her denials and excuses? People are already angry. I want them to do something with their anger in a way that possibly allows them to let it go. Just talking about it doesn't seem to have been that cathartic. In my experience when people have been this deeply hurt and feel vulnerable they need to take control. If you or anyone else has a better idea for how to set things right, I'm listening. 

As far as my sharing details of a private conversation it's no more than she's already spoken publicly; she's just a little more arrogant and condescending in private. I hope she doesn't feel I've betrayed her trust in any way by saying that?!? Gosh, that'd just be AWFUL!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

fa_man_stan said:


> I disagree with your disagreement of Traci's dislike with lolcats...
> 
> 
> LOL
> 
> 
> 
> As for this issue of communication LalaCity... Personally, I have found your statements to be articulate, encompassing of the topic at hand, often times witty, quite matter of fact, and for that matter quite factual. When one attempts to unify all the elements of humanity, especially when they be of differing opinion, one has to use this skills which you possess, that of articulation, encompassment of topic etc...



I like Lala even better than the lollercats......:bow:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

TraciJo67 said:


> I just made ferocious love to a jar of Jif peanut butter, and while I'm sated and happy, I'm also a sticky mess.
> 
> ETA: Oops. Meant that for Mossy's PM box ... how the hell did it land here?





Knowing how this would get me turned on....why send it to HER????


----------



## Angel

Jack Skellington said:


> Not without dinner and movie first.



You're that _easy_, Jack? 


How's this sound? The restaurant of your choice and Indy 4? 




_let's give 'em somethin' to talk about..._


----------



## OfftoOtherPlaces

Good grief. I leave for two little weeks and this is what happens!


----------



## Mini

I think it's great that outrage changes to joviality and bullshittery so quickly.


----------



## TraciJo67

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Knowing how this would get me turned on....why send it to HER????



You don't love me. You just love my peanut butter. Sniffle


----------



## Jane

Mini said:


> I think it's great that outrage changes to joviality and bullshittery so quickly.



While you and I maintain an even bullshittery keel.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

I was never outraged......and I'm always full of bullshittery :batting:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

TraciJo67 said:


> You don't love me. You just love my peanut butter. Sniffle



Yeah but.....I treat your peanut butter right  :batting:


----------



## Mini

Jane said:


> While you and I maintain an even bullshittery keel.



Exactly. Way too much effort involved in reacting to things, so I just set my "default," as it were, to 11.


----------



## Angel

Mini said:


> I think it's great that outrage changes to joviality and bullshittery so quickly.



no bullshittery here. 





ps: ya know I luvs ya, Michael.


----------



## OfftoOtherPlaces

Mini said:


> Exactly. Way too much effort involved in reacting to things, so I just set my "default," as it were, to 11.



Does that 11 refer to intensity or age?

Or both.

Let me remind you that there is no right answer.


----------



## TraciJo67

Ernest Nagel said:


> Again, for the record, this was my first post in this thread. I've been following it with some consternation and am appalled at how long it has gone on and how much the hurt keeps getting rehashed.
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly thought this might help bring some closure, put some brakes on the f*cking bandwagon. LoveBHMS is still defending herself. I find that to be indefensible of itself. Is it "needlessly cruel" to say I'm simply not interested in hearing more of her denials and excuses? People are already angry. I want them to do something with their anger in a way that possibly allows them to let it go. Just talking about it doesn't seem to have been that cathartic. In my experience when people have been this deeply hurt and feel vulnerable they need to take control. If you or anyone else has a better idea for how to set things right, I'm listening.
> 
> As far as my sharing details of a private conversation it's no more than she's already spoken publicly; she's just a little more arrogant and condescending in private. I hope she doesn't feel I've betrayed her trust in any way by saying that?!? Gosh, that'd just be AWFUL!




So if I don't like you, and deem you unworthy of my respect, I can then share details of any PM's that you've sent me ... while inserting my assessment of your (lack of) character? Cool beans. I'm fairly certain that I have one from you. It may have been a rather bland & courteous "thank you" for some REP points I sent you ... or it could have been a solicitation for me to be your weight gaining love slave. I could slather on a hefty layer of innuendo, either way ... just so long as I don't share the actual content of the PM ... right? Seems fair to me!


----------



## Jack Skellington

Mini said:


> I think it's great that outrage changes to joviality and bullshittery so quickly.



I have neither. Like I said, I'm here purely out of spite.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Shhhhh I'm not here I'm just dropping off the food.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

TraciJo67 said:


> So if I don't like you, and deem you unworthy of my respect, I can then share details of any PM's that you've sent me ... while inserting my assessment of your (lack of) character? Cool beans. I'm fairly certain that I have one from you. It may have been a rather bland & courteous "thank you" for some REP points I sent you ... or it could have been a solicitation for me to be your weight gaining love slave. I could slather on a hefty layer of innuendo, either way ... just so long as I don't share the actual content of the PM ... right? Seems fair to me!



I've no fear of the truth. Share away, as long as it's everything I've ever said to you. I hate being taken out of context. Please include anything you've ever said about me publicly btw, especially if it was inferred from PMs.  (I'd take this private but you seem to imply there is no such thing so, meh.)

BTW, I'm told by a friend (and yes, you'd be surprised how many I have) that LoveBHMS offered to disclose my PM conversation with her to anyone who wants it. I'm quite fine with that too, but think in the interest of accuracy I should be able to just post the whole thing here. Not that she would misrepresent herself or anything.


----------



## LoveBHMS

Uhm.

I actually posted on this very thread that if anyone wanted to know i'd tell them. Your friend or anyone else could have read it.

(Post 545)


----------



## TraciJo67

Ernest Nagel said:


> I've no fear of the truth. Share away, as long as it's everything I've ever said to you. I hate being taken out of context. Please include anything you've ever said about me publicly btw, especially if it was inferred from PMs.  (I'd take this private but you seem to imply there is no such thing so, meh.)
> 
> BTW, I'm told by a friend (and yes, you'd be surprised how many I have) that LoveBHMS offered to disclose my PM conversation with her to anyone who wants it. I'm quite fine with that too, but think in the interest of accuracy I should be able to just post the whole thing here. Not that she would misrepresent herself or anything.



Ernest, until today, you've flown quite blissfully far underneath my radar. Felt no need to ever say anything about you, to anyone, in any context. 

YOU opened this can of worms with your indiscreet reference to a private conversation with LoveBHMS. Now you're suggesting that you add insult to injury by posting the transcript? Sheesh. 

I'll pass on seeing it, but thanks for the offer.


----------



## AnnMarie

Tina said:


> Please do not speak for us, and from my perspective, for me. That isn't exactly what I've said. Let your own opinion stand on its own merit, and do not bring me into this in order to shore up your own argument.



Exactly. 

I assure you that what we, as mods, want to do, and what we're able to do within the rules established, are often vastly different things. 

I do not want any assumptions made about my personal feelings based on what members here see us do/not do. We usually have to do things we do not want, and we often would like to do things we're not able to do.


----------



## Waxwing

Ernest Nagel said:


> I've no fear of the truth. Share away, as long as it's everything I've ever said to you. I hate being taken out of context. Please include anything you've ever said about me publicly btw, especially if it was inferred from PMs.  (I'd take this private but you seem to imply there is no such thing so, meh.)
> 
> BTW, I'm told by a friend (and yes, you'd be surprised how many I have) that LoveBHMS offered to disclose my PM conversation with her to anyone who wants it. I'm quite fine with that too, but think in the interest of accuracy I should be able to just post the whole thing here. Not that she would misrepresent herself or anything.



Will you knock it off? GOD, playing "ooh I have your PM and might expose it teee heee" isn't helping. Because all this kind of thing does is make everyone look gleefully duplicitous. And I've had just about as much gleefully duplicitous as I can take for one fucking year.

If it's so goddamned much fun to display private conversations for all the world to see, is THAT why this was released to begin with? I can see that it just makes some people positively wet themselves with excitement.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Ernest Nagel said:


> Again, for the record, this was my first post in this thread. I've been following it with some consternation and am appalled at how long it has gone on and how much the hurt keeps getting rehashed.



Then why keep adding to it with more secret PM controversy?



Ernest Nagel said:


> I honestly thought this might help bring some closure, put some brakes on the f*cking bandwagon. LoveBHMS is still defending herself. I find that to be indefensible of itself. Is it "needlessly cruel" to say I'm simply not interested in hearing more of her denials and excuses?



Nagle, YOU went to her. When she didn't say what you wanted her to say you came here to raise a new banner over this issue in your outrage. Oh but not before leaving a parting shot about the confirmation that all us fetishists are immoral awful people. Smooth.



Ernest Nagel said:


> People are already angry. I want them to do something with their anger in a way that possibly allows them to let it go. Just talking about it doesn't seem to have been that cathartic. In my experience when people have been this deeply hurt and feel vulnerable they need to take control. If you or anyone else has a better idea for how to set things right, I'm listening.



And you think that this is the way to get it done? Wow.



Ernest Nagel said:


> As far as my sharing details of a private conversation it's no more than she's already spoken publicly; she's just a little more arrogant and condescending in private. I hope she doesn't feel I've betrayed her trust in any way by saying that?!? Gosh, that'd just be AWFUL!



Don't bother Nagle. As posted previously she is more than willing to show all the contents to anyone who asks. Call it morbid curiosity but I just had to see. I'm baffled as to what the logic is in trying to keep this fire burning with more 'he said, she said.'


----------



## Ernest Nagel

AnnMarie said:


> Exactly.
> 
> I assure you that what we, as mods, want to do, and what we're able to do within the rules established, are often vastly different things.
> 
> I do not want any assumptions made about my personal feelings based on what members here see us do/not do. We usually have to do things we do not want, and we often would like to do things we're not able to do.



AM, I sincerely apologize to both you and Tina for any implication that I know your intentions. It was reckless and irresponsible. I hope you'll both forgive me?


----------



## stan_der_man

Mini said:


> Jane said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Green Eyed Fairy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Angel said:
> 
> 
> 
> no bullshittery here.
> 
> 
> 
> I was never outraged......and I'm always full of bullshittery :batting:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> While you and I maintain an even bullshittery keel.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think it's great that outrage changes to joviality and bullshittery so quickly.
Click to expand...



IC... Sometimes I just jump directly into shittery and leave the bull behind.
Oh wait... this isn't the confessions thread... my bad.




Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Shhhhh I'm not here I'm just dropping off the food.



OOOOH! Hey Sandie, can I have some of that spagetti!?  :eat2:


----------



## Mini

Ernest Nagel said:


> AM, I sincerely apologize to both you and Tina for any implication that I know your intentions. It was reckless and irresponsible. I hope you'll both forgive me?



I'm in no way involved in this, but no, I don't forgive you. Not now, not ever.


----------



## AnnMarie

Ernest Nagel said:


> AM, I sincerely apologize to both you and Tina for any implication that I know your intentions. It was reckless and irresponsible. I hope you'll both forgive me?



No problem, I think it's an issue that many believe, so it seemed like a good time to go on record.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

fa_man_stan said:


> OOOOH! Hey Sandie, can I have some of that spagetti!?  :eat2:



Of course Stan I figured it was gonna be a long night here so I dropped off the food. Enjoy yourself!


----------



## Waxwing

LillyBBBW said:


> Don't bother Nagle. As posted previously she is more than willing to show all the contents to anyone who asks. Call it morbid curiosity but I just had to see. I'm baffled as to what the logic is in trying to keep this fire burning with more 'he said, she said.'



You know, you're totally right Lilly. It is keeping the fire burning. And that really typifies this whole thread. Awful things were said, made MORE awful by publicizing them and by this ham-fisted excoriation. 

I would have been unspeakably hurt by what was said. But I can be a vicious bitch when I'm angry, and I know that in my life I have hurt people unspeakably with my words. 

So yes, I would have been crushed. But I'd have been about 400 times MORE hurt if someone had decided to turn it into this week's public show. You know who this helps? NOBODY. Does this soothe the hurt feelings of the people involved? Fuck no. This is a carnival.

There have been apologies made repeatedly which are clearly sincere. If I had been the subject of the attacks would I accept them? Hell no. But that is up to the people harmed, NOT up to us. We don't get to forgive OR condemn here. 

I notice that the two people who have had the least to say in this thread, are the people who have the most right to be upset. But they have dealt with it with grace. The rest of us have spent 29 pages of this phenomenally inappropriate thread bitching and snarking and subtexting out own insults to one another.


----------



## Jack Skellington

Mini said:


> I'm in no way involved in this, but no, I don't forgive you. Not now, not ever.



I respect that.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

My replies in bold. Sorry I don't know how to multi-reply.



LillyBBBW said:


> Then why keep adding to it with more secret PM controversy?
> 
> *I originally brought up the PMs because what I've read of LoveBHMS publicly did not, imo, warrant anything further. After speaking with her I changed my mind. I do not feel anything I said rose to the level of breaching confidentiality.
> *
> 
> 
> Nagle, YOU went to her. When she didn't say what you wanted her to say you came here to raise a new banner over this issue in your outrage. Oh but not before leaving a parting shot about the confirmation that all us fetishists are immoral awful people. Smooth.
> 
> *And now you're disclosing details of a PM she disclosed to you. Also smooth. BTW my feelings about fetishists are reflected in numerous posts and you've grossly misrepresented them as well as what I said to LBHMS.*
> 
> 
> 
> And you think that this is the way to get it done? Wow.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't bother Nagle. As posted previously she is more than willing to show all the contents to anyone who asks. Call it morbid curiosity but I just had to see. I'm baffled as to what the logic is in trying to keep this fire burning with more 'he said, she said.'



Oh, I see, when I defend myself against accusations of "needless cruelty" I'm fanning the fire? I offered to post publicly my exchange with her because, surprise, surprise, I don't know if she can be trusted not to change things to suit her purposes. Who's fault is that? As it happens though you were the one to lie for her. I'm tired of this place.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Ernest Nagel said:


> My replies in bold. Sorry I don't know how to multi-reply.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I see, when I defend myself against accusations of "needless cruelty" I'm fanning the fire? I offered to post publicly my exchange with her because, surprise, surprise, I don't know if she can be trusted not to change things to suit her purposes. Who's fault is that? As it happens though you were the one to lie for her. I'm tired of this place.



Ooo take heed everyone. Nagle says I'm a liar too. Must be true if Nagle says.


----------



## Santaclear

I think it's usually a good thing when phoniness is exposed, especially when we can laugh about it. A lot of aspects about this thread have made me laugh.


----------



## Waxwing

Ernest Nagel said:


> I'm tired of this place.



Nobody is begging you to stay.


----------



## Santaclear

Be still, Ernest. Lilly is an excellent liar. Please stay everyone. They're showing a Marx Brothers film tonight after dinner.


----------



## JoyJoy

Waxwing said:


> I notice that the two people who have had the least to say in this thread, are the people who have the most right to be upset. But they have dealt with it with grace. The rest of us have spent 29 pages of this phenomenally inappropriate thread bitching and snarking and subtexting out own insults to one another.


There were two people specifically named, yes, and they do have every right to be upset. But, if you have access to what was said, you'll note that they also spoke in general terms about people who are "that fat"...and people who have trouble finding socks, etc. So...none of the bitching here is inappropriate. Yeah, I'd say it's gone on way too long, but far more than two have a reason to be angry and hurt, so please don't speak as if they don't. I agree, though, that's it's time to put it to rest and move on.


----------



## Waxwing

JoyJoy said:


> There were two people specifically named, yes, and they do have every right to be upset. But, if you have access to what was said, you'll note that they also spoke in general terms about people who are "that fat"...and people who have trouble finding socks, etc. So...none of the bitching here is inappropriate. Yeah, I'd say it's gone on way too long, but far more than two have a reason to be angry and hurt, so please don't speak as if they don't. I agree, though, that's it's time to put it to rest and move on.



I didn't intend to imply that nobody else has a right to be hurt. I know that a LOT of people were hurt by those words.

I just can't see how doing it this way, in front of everyone, was the right choice.


----------



## Santaclear

Waxwing said:


> I didn't intend to imply that nobody else has a right to be hurt. I know that a LOT of people were hurt by those words.
> 
> I just can't see how doing it this way, in front of everyone, was the right choice.



I think it was a fine choice. It's enlightening to know who we're dealing with. Let THEM worry about the fallout.


----------



## ThikJerseyChik

Jane said:


> I'm here for the free nachos and marguarita happy hour.



*picks her seat right next to Jane*


----------



## LillyBBBW

Waxwing said:


> I didn't intend to imply that nobody else has a right to be hurt. I know that a LOT of people were hurt by those words.
> 
> I just can't see how doing it this way, in front of everyone, was the right choice.



I'm not fond of public humiliation hearings but given the brevity of this situation I think it is appropriate and cathartic for people to be able to have their say and feel heard. Unfortunately poor Saucywench didn't know the goo she was going to step in by making the initial post. It was the wrong post at the right time or the right post at the wrong time, whichever your pick.


----------



## Paquito

Ok I finally got the PM (thanks source), all I have to say is...wow....wtf?
You want to bash someone? fine, have fun, CLEARLY its the only thing getting you by. But honestly, fat bashing on a fat acceptance site? How low can you get? I wholeheartedly believe that they are getting their just desserts, at least we have seen their true colors.

Whew, after that I need some of those free nachos.

P.S. The lovely girl these two were making fun of did not deserve it on the least, great cankles!


----------



## mango

*Added to my list of unfulfilled fantasies....

To eat a fresh blueberry cupcake (with no hands, of course) right off a lovely curvaceous (& clean) cankle!

*


----------



## Forgotten_Futures

1) The thread WILL die if you leave it alone. Why this pointless waste of baud hasn't been locked and shuffled off the mortal coil yet, I don't know.

2) In case you hadn't noticed, mocking the two women responsible for this puts you guys on the exact same level as them.


----------



## Santaclear

Forgotten_Futures said:


> 2) In case you hadn't noticed, mocking the two women responsible for this puts you guys on the exact same level as them.



No it doesn't. I can laugh. They can feel embarrassed. Very different from the cankle thing.


----------



## Forgotten_Futures

How not?

They made derisive comments about people by name. You're making derisive comments about them by name. Details are fluff, root functions are what matters.


----------



## Tina

AnnMarie said:


> No problem, I think it's an issue that many believe, so it seemed like a good time to go on record.


Exactly, AM. I've had enough erroneous things believed about me to have had my fill for a lifetime, frankly. And yeah, I agree with your previous post, too, but won't expand upon it.


----------



## Santaclear

Forgotten_Futures said:


> How not?
> 
> They made derisive comments about people by name. You're making derisive comments about them by name. Details are fluff, root functions are what matters.



Details are not fluff. You cannot have your root functions without them. 

Canklegate practically screams for ridicule.


----------



## mossystate

Forgotten_Futures said:


> How not?
> 
> They made derisive comments about people by name. You're making derisive comments about them by name. Details are fluff, root functions are what matters.




wow...you are probably the only person I have ever run into who never slaps a person who has thrown the first punch

fuck the potato chip I found that resembles a potato chip..I wanna sell YOU on Ebay...Kah..and..ching!


----------



## Tina

And BTW, I have no intention of locking this thread or trying to silence anyone. Whether one thinks this should be public or not is immaterial since it is, and was bound to be, one way or the other, given the contents of those PMs. If it wasn't in this thread it would have been another. The thing that surprised me, frankly, was that it took so long. I heard various versions of various things multiple times. There isn't any one thing I heard from only one person. This goes beyond basic gossip and into group outrage, and rightfully so, IMO. As a mod, I'm not diggin' the thread, but as a fellow community member, I understand peoples' desire to work it out 'verbally,' and if you notice, there have been very few attacks (until people felt like others were trying to silence them) and mostly expressions of hurt, outrage, sadness, anger. All valid feelings, IMO.

It is my opinion that the more effort there is made to shut people up, the more vehemently they will want to express themselves. What happened -- the ruse, really, more than the 'gossip,' and the feeling that the subjects could have been any of us, is outrageous. So there is outrage. Some don't agree that it's outrageous; some don't agree that it should be public. Okay. I just don't think we need a poll to figure out how the majority seem to feel about this.


----------



## Mini

Forgotten_Futures said:


> How not?
> 
> They made derisive comments about people by name. You're making derisive comments about them by name. Details are fluff, root functions are what matters.



The moral equivalency argument's one I've never bought, and I see no reason to change my mind now.

Regardless of how you feel, no, don't try to make this into a "you're just as bad as they are!"


----------



## love dubh

I can't take back what I said, and I won't. I stand by the mean things I said - for I said them in a state of cruelty, because it amused me, and because it was an easy target. Because I didn't like what I saw, nor how I believe it to come about, and I was very nasty about it. I was being extremely juvenile, and virulent. I accept that there are many who hate me, are disappointed with me, and hope I die in a fire. 
I can't change that, either. 

I was doing what many people do, day in and day out, except instead of targeting someone's fashion or intelligence, I targeted bodies. It just so happened that the insults were fat-based on a fat website, as opposed to the whisperings in between Yahoo mailboxes or secular forums. 

Did I enjoy being vindictive in those conversation? Yes. Did I stop that line of conversation? Yes. Is that all I spoke about with LoveBHMs? No. Believe it or not. I am no differeht than the other members on this board who have viciously mocked their peers, via PM and on the phone. Except their dirty laundry was not aired. Did they mock their fellow posters because of their bodies, their perceived promiscuity, their intelligence? You're damn right they did. They were lucky that one person did not get a hold of their conversation and circulate it.

Again, I take responsibility for what I said. I do feel terrible that people have been hurt. I know I will never get trust back; I wholly accept that my apology will fall on blind eyes. I was acting very childishly, and can only work on removing that negative thought process from my head, and not doing such a thing again. I just hope that I can salvage something here.


----------



## stefanie

1. Why I'm here: Because I'm a fat woman married to a fat man. At first I was really reluctant to come out of "lurker" status, mainly b/c I was married, and a lot of the more active threads on the BHM/FFA forum seemed to be "meet and greet." NOT that there is anything wrong with that - just that as an old married lady, it just seemed a bit not my style.

Then a friend remarked, that wasn't all that was going on, why not check it out, get more involved? I did, and don't regret it. 

2. Re: the infamous PM. I am sick to my stomach about it; almost shaking, actually. It points out to me, though (and this ties in with #1), how important it is for me to not only stand up for fat acceptance in general, but in particular for the "unacceptably fat" - the people who are considered "too big," "too unhealthy," "too unattractive," too *whatever.* 

There is a saying, "Character is what you are, alone in the dark." I would add to that, that a person's character is illustrated by what he or she does when they think no one is watching.


----------



## saucywench

LillyBBBW said:


> I'm not fond of public humiliation hearings but given the brevity of this situation I think it is appropriate and cathartic for people to be able to have their say and feel heard. Unfortunately poor Saucywench didn't know the goo she was going to step in by making the initial post. It was the wrong post at the right time or the right post at the wrong time, whichever your pick.


No, I wasn't aware of the _particular_ goo, as it were, but, as I said (somewhere the hell way up there), I have had a sense of unrest and dis-ease about anti-fat sentiments lying just under the surface of Dims. While I _did_ ask that my initial post be taken at face value, I was well aware--even before I posted it--that it was going to serve a dual purpose--OK, multipurpose, in fact. It wasn't until Sunday morning that the gory details were made available to me, and consequently some of the other purposes that this thread serves were made all the more clear.

I did initally make attempts to thank privately those who did take it at face value--first by rep and, when that ran out (quickly), by PM. But, soon after, the snowball was rolling and I had to abandon that, because...

What is at the heart of all of this is_ so, so_ fundamental and _so very important_ to all of us who have a vested interest in this site. I have refrained from commenting again until now and, frankly, I'm not really ready yet to say what I want to say. I will get to it at a later time, but I am overwhelmed with a range of emotion right now, as I'm sure many of you are. It will involve much review of what has been said and expressed, as well as my own personal feelings.

This thread needs to run its course. I'm sorry if some of you don't understand that. I'm sorry that you feel so much discomfort. All I can say at this time is--it just has to _be_.

Briefly, though--for those of you who have responded who _aren't _fat--primarily, the FAs--you're not going to understand. Down deep. You just aren't. You may empathize or sympathize, but you cannot fathom the depth of our pain. The pain transcends far beyond and outside this thread (and the particular incident mentioned). No one who has been hurt by this owes anyone an explanation or rationalization as to why they feel the way they do. And they have every right to respond to it in any manner they see fit. For those of you who _are_ fat and _still_ don't get it--friendships and associations aside--I am stymied that you don't comprehend what this is ultimately about.

As I said, I will be back. Later.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Like I said -Balls - big -- brass.

I am amazed by your arrogance. Kinda.






love dubh said:


> I can't take back what I said, and I won't. I stand by the mean things I said - for I said them in a state of cruelty, because it amused me, and because it was an easy target. Because I didn't like what I saw, nor how I believe it to come about, and I was very nasty about it. I was being extremely juvenile, and virulent. I accept that there are many who hate me, are disappointed with me, and hope I die in a fire.
> I can't change that, either.
> 
> I was doing what many people do, day in and day out, except instead of targeting someone's fashion or intelligence, I targeted bodies. It just so happened that the insults were fat-based on a fat website, as opposed to the whisperings in between Yahoo mailboxes or secular forums.
> 
> Did I enjoy being vindictive in those conversation? Yes. Did I stop that line of conversation? Yes. Is that all I spoke about with LoveBHMs? No. Believe it or not. I am no differeht than the other members on this board who have viciously mocked their peers, via PM and on the phone. Except their dirty laundry was not aired. Did they mock their fellow posters because of their bodies, their perceived promiscuity, their intelligence? You're damn right they did. They were lucky that one person did not get a hold of their conversation and circulate it.
> 
> Again, I take responsibility for what I said. I do feel terrible that people have been hurt. I know I will never get trust back; I wholly accept that my apology will fall on blind eyes. I was acting very childishly, and can only work on removing that negative thought process from my head, and not doing such a thing again. I just hope that I can salvage something here.


----------



## LillyBBBW

love dubh said:


> I can't take back what I said, and I won't. I stand by the mean things I said - for I said them in a state of cruelty, because it amused me, and because it was an easy target. Because I didn't like what I saw, nor how I believe it to come about, and I was very nasty about it. I was being extremely juvenile, and virulent. I accept that there are many who hate me, are disappointed with me, and hope I die in a fire.
> I can't change that, either.
> 
> I was doing what many people do, day in and day out, except instead of targeting someone's fashion or intelligence, I targeted bodies. It just so happened that the insults were fat-based on a fat website, as opposed to the whisperings in between Yahoo mailboxes or secular forums.
> 
> Did I enjoy being vindictive in those conversation? Yes. Did I stop that line of conversation? Yes. Is that all I spoke about with LoveBHMs? No. Believe it or not. I am no differeht than the other members on this board who have viciously mocked their peers, via PM and on the phone. Except their dirty laundry was not aired. Did they mock their fellow posters because of their bodies, their perceived promiscuity, their intelligence? You're damn right they did. They were lucky that one person did not get a hold of their conversation and circulate it.
> 
> Again, I take responsibility for what I said. I do feel terrible that people have been hurt. I know I will never get trust back; I wholly accept that my apology will fall on blind eyes. I was acting very childishly, and can only work on removing that negative thought process from my head, and not doing such a thing again. I just hope that I can salvage something here.



I don't even understand what this means. Were you angry at them? Were you angry with us? Was this just a fit of the nasties and picking on fat was just a familiar map? I can't understand the motivation behind screwing over on people who were supposed to be your friends.


----------



## saucywench

Waxwing said:


> I didn't intend to imply that nobody else has a right to be hurt. I know that a LOT of people were hurt by those words.
> 
> *I just can't see* how doing it this way, in front of everyone, was the right choice.


.............


----------



## saucywench

Forgotten_Futures said:


> 1) The thread WILL die if you leave it alone. Why this pointless waste of baud hasn't been locked and shuffled off the mortal coil yet, *I don't know*.
> 
> 2) In case you hadn't noticed, mocking the two women responsible for this puts you guys on the exact same level as them.


............


----------



## AnnMarie

saucywench said:


> .............



Actually, waxwing was really just feeling hurt for Ginny and I... that this was reopening the wound over and over. I told her how I felt about it, and I think she now feels better about why this thread is cathartic and helpful for a lot of people here. 

She gets it, actually.... quite readily.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

I didn't want to speak for you, AM, so I didn't say anything about Waxy's comment - but I'm *glad* this thread is here. It's not opening wounds, it's showing me how very much support this community has to offer in difficult times, and how, even when we all disagree on NUMEROUS other topics, when it comes to being fat girls, well, we've got each other's backs.  (Most of us, anyway)


----------



## saucywench

AnnMarie said:


> Actually, waxwing was really just feeling hurt for Ginny and I... that this was reopening the wound over and over. I told her how I felt about it, and I think she now feels better about why this thread is cathartic and helpful for a lot of people here.
> 
> She gets it, actually.... quite readily.


Good deal. Thanks, hon, for the clarification. :bow:

Waxy, my apologies.


----------



## NancyGirl74

Not to rekindle the fire but I have been thinking about this thread all day and I have a bit more to say on this topic before I unsubscribe. 

Firstly, I was not one of those named but I do know and respect both women who in my opinion have handled this with way more grace and dignity than I ever could. While I was deeply offended by what was said about them the core of my anger and frustration has to do with how those words affected me. I am not a trusting person. Years of being mistreated by my peers, community, and yes, even so-called friends has made it so that I keep most people at arms length. It is straight up truth when I say that I had one friend before I found Dims. So, when I came here and learned about what Dims stands for and got to know many of the amazing people here I felt safe and at home. Not that I opened up and allowed the masses in right away but I allowed my self to let down many of my guards. I began to trust. I made friends. I felt at ease. I still do in many ways because I will not allow a few hateful people take away what I have finally found. However, this situation did open some old very, very painful wounds. My safe place was momentarily shaken. Those responsible for this can apologize left and right and issue all the backhanded apologies they want, in my eyes they are ruined. Their actions are not forgivable to me. It disgusts me that these two (if not more) deliberately went out of their way to instill trust only to abuse it. In my opinion, no reasons they can give will justify their actions. 

That being said, there have been many harsh things stated in this thread...of which I contributed my fair share. I am not backing down from my stance because yes, I was and am very angry and hurt. However, I want to make it clear that my anger and hurt is directed solely toward the Loves. While I do not see eye to eye with those who stand by the Loves it doesn't mean I disvalue their opinion...I simply can't agree with it.

This situation has brought out the ugly in these women but I do not wish it to bring out the ugly in me. I am a fat woman who loves Dims like I love my family. A few black sheep WILL NOT change that...ever.

~Unsubscribed~


----------



## Famouslastwords




----------



## moore2me

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Of course Stan I figured it was gonna be a long night here so I dropped off the food. Enjoy yourself!



*I am working on emptying more bottles of Sangria for you guys to use as another table decoration (burp, hiccup, . . . . .)*



Santaclear said:


> Be still, Ernest. Lilly is an excellent liar. Please stay everyone. They're showing a Marx Brothers film tonight after dinner.



*I hope it's Horse Feathers . . . it's my fav Marx Brothers and appropriate tonight. Another round of Sangria for my buddies. *



mossystate said:


> wow...you are probably the only person I have ever run into who never slaps a person who has thrown the first punch.



*Some of us prefer force escalation when assaulted by a foe. *


----------



## Risible

love dubh said:


> ... I just hope that I can salvage something here.



Because I believe you to be a good person, I believe that the things being said in this thread will resonate with you, Maire, and with LoveBHMS. You may even become better people because of it; being shamed (I feel that's the purpose of this thread, not to just vent on you both) has a way of reaching the souls of people with character and make them want to do better.

However, the things that were said in those PMs ... I don't think you'll be able to purge those prejudices easily. To be cliche, "A leopard can't change its spots."

I hope both you and LoveBHMS decide to leave Dims, in light of those prejudices. We all have our hangups and so forth, but being fat ... and especially being supersize ... well, ours' is a fragile emotional existence sometimes, always under attack in RL. You can argue that it's our own damn fault, being this size, but the reality is, regardless of how we got to this size, Dims is one of the very few places where we can feel safe from fat bashing. Knowing to a tiny extent how virulently you feel about very fat women at least, and perhaps other sizes of fat, it shakes me up when I see you and the other Love post here, almost as if you're violating a private space.

You both have as much a right to be here as I do, unless Conrad decides differently. But I really hope you consider the feelings of the many people who have spoken out against you in this thread - and the many others who haven't chipped in, but feel likewise - and move on.


----------



## love dubh

LillyBBBW said:


> I don't even understand what this means. Were you angry at them? Were you angry with us? Was this just a fit of the nasties and picking on fat was just a familiar map? I can't understand the motivation behind screwing over on people who were supposed to be your friends.



It was being nasty and picking on a familiar target. You have it correct. It was, for me, what I said - not liking something and picking at it, mercilessly.

I wasn't "screwing over on people." I was having a catty chat with someone, and it got out by accident. If anyone screwed anyone, it is the person who circulated our private messages, when they could have brought the conversation to Conrad and the mods, and had us banned without incident. This individual wanted to run us out of town with pitchforks and spectacle. She got it, then. She's the savior. We're the bad guys.

Since I have no value, I'll be off. Congratulations on the purge, though.


----------



## ripley

LoveBHMS said:


> Until a series of events that happened last night, neither LD nor I understood how these PMs got out.
> 
> The exchange was mistakenly sent by me to one other person. I went back and forth as to whether or not to reveal her name, and I chose not to.



You told me on April 17 how they got out, and you named names. Don't pretend to take the high road now.





I was thinking a lot about this last night, and wondering if anything good can come out of it. (And I don't consider "Don't trust people on the internet, duh" something good.)

The important thing, I think, is to not let this make us so wary that we don't welcome thin people here who aren't exactly fully "arrived" in terms of size acceptance. The thing is...they all aren't going to act like love dubh and LoveBHMs; some of them will actually lose their prejudices, rather than entrench them further. Some will come here, and befriend some of us, see how warm we are, how friendly, how witty and funny, see how we're just regular people trying to make our way in a world that is sometimes unfriendly to us, and maybe, after that happens, they won't be so quick to judge the fat people that they see every day.

Dims is a safe haven for many of us, and finding out things like this sort of rocks you to your foundation...but it's a good lesson that we can take from it, and maybe be nicer to one another in light of it. There must be something in love dubh and LoveBHMs that Tooz, Ivy, and some others see in them that warrants their loyalty. Maybe it's a first step...maybe it will move them from "thin people are great...smaller fat people are okay...supersize women are gross" into something better. Maybe, after they are done trying to defend themselves, after they finish throwing up smoke screens, they will realize that this is a prejudice they harbor, as vile as any other prejudice. Maybe they'll realize that the friends that stuck by them through this are the potential cankle-sporters of tomorrow.

I think I'm rambling now. I just hope that the next "thin allies" we get can truly open their hearts and minds. I hope that this example of fat bigotry doesn't make us distrustful of people in the future that stumble across us.


----------



## Eclectic_Girl

love dubh said:


> She's the savior. We're the bad guys.
> 
> Since I have no value, I'll be off. Congratulations on the purge, though.



Except she's not getting the credit, since we don't know who she is. Maybe she just wants you gone?

Speaking of which...bye.


----------



## Jack Skellington

I missed this earlier. 



Forgotten_Futures said:


> In case you hadn't noticed, mocking the two women responsible for this puts you guys on the exact same level as them.



Not really. I mock people all the time. Especially the pervs. I'm a spiteful little Witch. But I do it to their faces. Otherwise you are not being mean, you are just being a wuss. 

Now, I haven't read the PMs and I don't care to. I have little patience for drama. I just think it's odd for someone to hang around a fat acceptance site if they hate fat people. It's kinda like hanging out at a Gay bar if your a homophobe. But whatever gets their rocks off I guess. 

I can also see and respect that this upset a lot of people and they have the right to be. I'm just little surprised this has gone as long as it has. I don't think people were this upset when that dude posted his snuff and scat fantasy. Now that was messed up.


----------



## largenlovely

people are more upset because these ladies were members of our community who we thought could be trusted and were on our side. Some of us have had private conversations with these women concerning size related matters and such. Some of us befriended these women. I don't know Love Dubh, but i had personal conversations with LoveBHM's and had thought she was a pretty cool person. I was really upset to hear about this and my opinion has definitely changed 

i could give a crap about the scat guy.

As far as this particular matter goes...i think pres bush says it best........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A




Jack Skellington said:


> I missed this earlier.
> I can also see and respect that this upset a lot of people and they have the right to be. I'm just little surprised this has gone as long as it has. I don't think people were this upset when that dude posted his snuff and scat fantasy. Now that was messed up.


----------



## Forgotten_Futures

Jack Skellington said:


> It's kinda like hanging out at a Gay bar if your a homophobe.


 
I'd hang around a gay bar to pick up bi chicks...


----------



## Jack Skellington

largenlovely said:


> i could give a crap about the scat guy.



Crap about scat. Okay, you are so getting rep for that.


----------



## Paquito

Being still realtively new here, the reactions to "Canklegate" is astounding (in a great way). The unity, the comrodery and the love of mutual large people in the face of this is quite remarkable. The sheer amount of love from one Dimmer to the other is quite beautiful, the strong bonds in this community are so strong that they appear to be indestructible, especially in the face of adversity. Although we are hurt as a community and some are reconsidering being here for the mentioned actions, the comrodery has reaffirmed my belief in this community a thousand fold.


----------



## largenlovely

hahaha glad you liked it 



Jack Skellington said:


> Crap about scat. Okay, you are so getting rep for that.


----------



## Santaclear

ripley said:


> Maybe they'll realize that the friends that stuck by them through this are the potential cankle-sporters of tomorrow.



"Cankle-sporters."


----------



## Tina

NancyGirl74 said:


> Firstly, I was not one of those named but I do know and respect both women who in my opinion have handled this with way more grace and dignity than I ever could. While I was deeply offended by what was said about them the core of my anger and frustration has to do with how those words affected me. I am not a trusting person. Years of being mistreated by my peers, community, and yes, even so-called friends has made it so that I keep most people at arms length. It is straight up truth when I say that I had one friend before I found Dims. So, when I came here and learned about what Dims stands for and got to know many of the amazing people here I felt safe and at home. Not that I opened up and allowed the masses in right away but I allowed my self to let down many of my guards. I began to trust. I made friends. I felt at ease. I still do in many ways because I will not allow a few hateful people take away what I have finally found. However, this situation did open some old very, very painful wounds. My safe place was momentarily shaken. Those responsible for this can apologize left and right and issue all the backhanded apologies they want, in my eyes they are ruined. Their actions are not forgivable to me. It disgusts me that these two (if not more) deliberately went out of their way to instill trust only to abuse it. In my opinion, no reasons they can give will justify their actions.


I know you're not here to read it, Nancy, but a friend and I were talking about this today, and we both agree that when a person grows up fat and is socialized to hate our bodies (especially if we are abused for it), stuff like this resonates. It doesn't just, as it seems to have for some, knick a little off the top and then even out, it works its way around, reviving old tapes, old hurts, old experiences of being seen as a freak. 

What is important to note, and has been noted many times in this thread is that many of us are more used to it in the outside world. Defenses are up, the force field in full operation. Here, it's so much more unexpected and shocking. It's kind of amplified because of it.

I understand the trust factor that Nancy speaks of, as I don't trust easily, either. This has been bothering me since I heard of it, and I have better defenses than some here, so I can only imagine how those who are still trying to find their inner rockin' fat girl might turn inwards and feel that there truly is no place in which to go where a fat person can be deemed truly acceptable (and being a sex object isn't the same thing).

What bothers me so much, aside from the afore-mentioned, is that you both, Maire and Loves, chose to use software from this place to say what you said. It adds insult to injury. 

Maire, yes, I'm very disappointed. I saw you as my cute, sweet little fabulous feminist friend. I've liked you for so many reasons. You're still feminist, I believe, I don't think that was a ruse or part of your 'social experiment,' or whatever we were to you. But as for someone who really cares about fat people? I don't believe that to be true. I think that to you, we're just blubber in a petrie dish. I truly had affection for you. A little part of me inside still does, but the feelings of betrayal truly outweigh them.

Loves, I haven't been able to talk to you since our last exchange, which was the evening before I received the transcript. What you said to me that night before read so cold that I had to sleep on it before responding. I woke up to the transcript and then found that I couldn't say anything to you at all because I was afraid of what I'd say. 

I totally get that you have your own body issues, and that, as you said, often it's the things which we hate about ourselves that we find the most fault with in others. But to me, that should make you more sensitive, not less so. But that is my "should" and not me telling you who you should be. You are who you are, and I'm not comfortable with what I've started to see. My problem, one might say? Yes. And I take full responsibility for it and will act accordingly, as a person, not as a mod.

Maire, you say that this should have been handled through Conrad and us mods. That's an idea, and one option. Thing is, as I've said, we don't ban for shitty opinions people hold unless they harass someone with them, in PM or on the board. We don't ban for writing nasty PMs. You both have a right to hold the opinions you hold and act as free agents and continue to post on the board. But what I meant by my comment earlier about how boards are often self-cleansing is that the community itself 'bans' people by how they are treated. I saw a post you made, Maire, where you talked about falling down a bunch of stairs. A terrible thing, but no one seemed to care, did they? Had you posted that a month ago, you'd have had people, including me, falling all over you to love you up and be there for you.

I've done some pretty lousy things in my lifetime, and have had almost half a century to do them, so even though the lesson is learned from each one, that's a lot of time to stack up fuck ups. I hope that the people who have felt wronged by me will forgive me, especially if they are someone I like and care about, but I don't expect it.

I would not ban either one of you for various reasons, both personally and as a mod, but I do hope that you each can take something away from this that might help you to have more compassion for the next fat person/people you meet. I also hope that you do go on your way and leave. And I do wish you well, even though I don't care to correspond with either one of you, so I've said this all publicly. This said as just me, the community member, and not an admin.


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

free2beme04 said:


> Being still realtively new here, the reactions to "Canklegate" is astounding (in a great way). The unity, the comrodery and the love of mutual large people in the face of this is quite remarkable. The sheer amount of love from one Dimmer to the other is quite beautiful, the strong bonds in this community are so strong that they appear to be indestructible, especially in the face of adversity. Although we are hurt as a community and some are reconsidering being here for the mentioned actions, the comrodery has reaffirmed my belief in this community a thousand fold.



These colors .. err .. fatties don't run baby! 

.. 

.. 

that came off more insulting than I had intended.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Santaclear said:


> "Cankle-sporters."


I know, I saw that and couldn't help thinking "cankle sports." 

*romps around the room with her cankles!*

ETA: This seems ill-placed so soon after Tina's beautiful post...sorry T...but I just feel like doing a little romping right now.


----------



## TearInYourHand

love dubh said:


> It was being nasty and picking on a familiar target. You have it correct. It was, for me, what I said - not liking something and picking at it, mercilessly.
> 
> I wasn't "screwing over on people." I was having a catty chat with someone, and it got out by accident. If anyone screwed anyone, it is the person who circulated our private messages, when they could have brought the conversation to Conrad and the mods, and had us banned without incident. This individual wanted to run us out of town with pitchforks and spectacle. She got it, then. She's the savior. We're the bad guys.
> 
> Since I have no value, I'll be off. Congratulations on the purge, though.



Honestly, Maire, stop the whining, victimization bullshit. You spewed hateful trash, and someone decided to call you out on it. Now you're playing the victim with the "We're the bad guys" crap. Guess what? You ARE the bad guys. I don't see that as too difficult to grasp. Did it ever cross your mind that you DESERVE to be publicly called out and made to feel bad for what you've done? Fucking cry me a river and deal with it.

You know, the fact that you were only here to experience a 'subculture' really weirds me out and makes me call into question some other 'causes' you've supported. I could totally see you working at planned parenthood because you see it as 'alternative', and then calling women who had abortions whores behind their backs. It's pretty sad. A lot of kids in college are like that before they 'find themselves', so maybe you'll grow out of it. I won't hold my breath.

Guess what? Even if you were being sarcastic, you really do 'have no value' to this community. I thought you already left?


----------



## largenlovely

people do suffer consequences for their actions....and sometimes you just hurt people so badly that there really *isn't* a way to fix it.

I am personally left with a "don't go away mad, just go away" attitude about the whole thing.


----------



## Aurora1

love dubh said:


> I can't take back what I said, and I won't. I stand by the mean things I said - for I said them in a state of cruelty, because it amused me, and because it was an easy target.





love dubh said:


> I just hope that I can salvage something here.



Ummmm....yeah....is it just me or did anyone else get a kick out of the opener and closer of this reply????


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Love Dubh - you want some cheese to go with that whine?

Just go away already - sheesh talk about a attention whore!


----------



## Jane

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Love Dubh - you want some cheese to go with that whine?
> 
> Just go away already - sheesh talk about a attention whore!



Now, Sandie, I disagree.

Everytime one of them makes an "apology" they just dig themselves in deeper. It's kind of amusing to see how low they can go (never having been able to limbo, I find it fascinating).


----------



## ThatFatGirl

I'm thinking the thread title should be changed to "Why are you STILL here???" Goodbye already.

Laura
(Rockin' the fat ankles here too)


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Jane said:


> Now, Sandie, I disagree.
> 
> Everytime one of them makes an "apology" they just dig themselves in deeper. It's kind of amusing to see how low they can go (never having been able to limbo, I find it fascinating).



LOL - thanks Jane I needed that!


----------



## Jazz Man

KevMoney said:


> This is completely beyond control right now. I had a bunch of things to say, but they are irrelevant now. People's emotions are way too on edge now and everyone is jumping down everyone's throat at the drop of a hat. I do think everyone needs to calm the fuck down. You can say whatever you want about this (or me for that matter), but this has evolved into something sophmoric, juvenile, and out-of-control. I see way too many people/relationships being ruined (aside from those from the original PMs, which is a completely different story).
> 
> Shivs has spoken.



I agree, can we get back to the cupcake jokes?


----------



## olwen

This thread has turned into a car accident on a train track that caused a train wreck that that blocked the raging river that flooded the town where a lightning storm hit and caused a plane to crash on top of the train wreck. There's so much debris I can't tell where all the people are.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm tired of watching the gruesome scene I wish I could look away from.


----------



## Santaclear

I want to ride the bomb down into the center, like that guy in _Dr. Strangelove._


----------



## olwen

Kaboom! Kaboom!


----------



## Tina

Emotions are high and it's really unnecessary to breathe life into old grudges, etc. The most redeeming thing about this mess is that people have pulled together and have been, for the most part, supportive of AM and Ginny, and each other. Whatever it is that is causing this other stuff, I'm hoping it ends, because I'm not closing this thread just to save people from themselves and each other. This thread has remained open so people can process and speak their minds, not so people can ream each other. [/mod]


----------



## Sandie S-R

love dubh said:


> I can't take back what I said, and I won't. I stand by the mean things I said - for I said them in a state of cruelty, because it amused me, and because it was an easy target. Because I didn't like what I saw, nor how I believe it to come about, and I was very nasty about it. I was being extremely juvenile, and virulent. I accept that there are many who hate me, are disappointed with me, and hope I die in a fire.
> I can't change that, either.
> 
> I was doing what many people do, day in and day out, except instead of targeting someone's fashion or intelligence, I targeted bodies. It just so happened that the insults were fat-based on a fat website, as opposed to the whisperings in between Yahoo mailboxes or secular forums.
> 
> Did I enjoy being vindictive in those conversation? Yes. Did I stop that line of conversation? Yes. Is that all I spoke about with LoveBHMs? No. Believe it or not. I am no differeht than the other members on this board who have viciously mocked their peers, via PM and on the phone. Except their dirty laundry was not aired. Did they mock their fellow posters because of their bodies, their perceived promiscuity, their intelligence? You're damn right they did. They were lucky that one person did not get a hold of their conversation and circulate it.
> 
> Again, I take responsibility for what I said. I do feel terrible that people have been hurt. I know I will never get trust back; I wholly accept that my apology will fall on blind eyes. I was acting very childishly, and can only work on removing that negative thought process from my head, and not doing such a thing again. I just hope that I can salvage something here.



I have never seen anyone with more blatant audacity in my life.

You make our community your little "social science experiment". You ingratiate yourself into our community with many people here. Then you bandy about your nasty bias and prejudices against us behind the scenes, chuckling about how disgusting we are. 

And after your "private stuff" becomes public, and you see how incredibly painful your crude comments were to us, you have the unmitagated gaul to come back and spew more of your hateful garbage, with the closing line of...

_"I just hope that I can salvage something here."_

You have got to be fucking kidding me. 

We may be fat, but we are not stupid. You will not get a second chance to kick us in the teeth.

As so many have said. You are not welcome here any more.


----------



## Angel

just thinking 'out loud'

(don't expect proper grammer or punctuation)

I've been fat my entire life. supersized. a supersized kid. 115 at age six. 180 at age nine. 196 at age eleven. a super size teen. 212 at age thirteen. 240 at age sixteen. 250 at age eighteen. 296 at age nineteen. a supersize adult. 417 at age twenty-one.

funny. I can remember the doctor who delivered me telling my Mom that it was just baby fat and that I'd out grow it one day. I was an active kid. maybe not as active as the skinny kids my age. I didn't eat a lot of junk food. didn't run around with a pop bottle. everyone noticed how fat I was. noticed my little pot belly. nobody seemed to notice that I was more than a foot taller than the kids my age. or that I was well over five foot at age seven. or that I had breasts at age six and _had_ to wear a bra. or that I started way before other girls my age. all everyone ever noticed and commented on was how big I was. teachers. neighborhood kids. some family members. strangers. kids at school. adults in stores. they'd point. giggle. nudge their friends. laugh. make mooing sounds. say I looked like I was pregnant. that was at age nine. imagine being in grade school and not being able to wear cute clothing like the other girls. I was wearing a women's size 16 in the 1st grade. kids can be cruel. you know where they get that? from their parents. they pick up on the bias attitudes of their parents or adult role models. can't blame the young ones. they don't know any better. 

as an adult I did everything my doctors advised. Optifast. Ultra fast. medically supervised liquid diets. 420 calories a day. for 12 weeks. then for 18 weeks. they couldn't understand why I wasn't losing weight. what are you doing? eating a whole roast? ummm no! 18 weeks. no solid food at all. I lost a whopping 35 pounds. 12 weeks. no food. gagged down the grainy shakes. walked. exercised. starved. and for what? 25 pounds! there must be something wrong with you. go to OA. go to this psychologist. I did. After multiple sessions, he wrote my doctors a detailed letter. He told me what what he wrote to them. there is nothing psychologically wrong with her. he told me. you didn't fail. the diets failed. 

that was only the first half of my life as a fat female. that's probably about close to the ages of the two females who don't understand us fat women.

the baby fat never went away. when I was in my mid 20s an ob/gyn ran some tests. when my doctor saw the results, he ran more tests. I wasn't just fat because I ate too much. there were medical reasons. nobody ever thought of that. Get out and play. exercise. yeah. I did and I was still fat. 

I don't want your sympathy. I want two females to understand. it could have very well been you; and there wouldn't have been anything you or your parents could have did to change things. you would have been FAT. you would have experienced the same mocking. the same cruel remarks. being ostracized. and maybe would have gained the one thing I did because of having grown up as a very fat child.


COMPASSION.


In retrospect would I want to change having been fat all through my childhood? that's a big FAT NO!

Being fat taught me how to treat others with respect. It's funny how a child internalizes everything. I never wanted anyone to hurt emotionally because I knew how that felt. I never felt a need to make fun of anyone. I understood, even as a child, how painful and humiliating it can be. 


I learned to be COMPASSIONATE and UNDERSTANDING. 


I realized that everyone was different in their own way, and that it wasn't their fault or because of anything they had done.


When I was in the first grade, I remember my teacher taking me out into the hall.... away from the other kids. she asked me why I had been crying. 


Even as a child.... I carried the weight of the world upon my shoulders.



You know what, you two may despise me because I'm so fat...... but if I met either of you in person right now...... I'd hug you..... and hold you. You know why? Because I know there _has to be_ some very deep emotional pain that makes you feel the way you do. What did any of us (fat women here) ever do to you besides welcome you into this community? Did any of us truly hurt you to make you feel the way you do? I don't think so because if that were true you still wouldn't be here. I do think you see something in some of us that deep down you wish you could have, and maybe that's why you're still here. It's called inner peace. 

I can only speak for myself. I don't hate you. I hate that some very fine and caring women have been hurt by your thoughtless actions. there's no saint in all of this mess. there wasn't a crucifixion. when someone is crucified, they are no more and they no longer have a voice. no one has silenced either of you. do you know why we have taken the time to express ourselves? it's not to crucify. maybe to get you to understand the error of your ways. but more importantly, I think it's because people want you to understand. you're not a lost cause. this is gonna sound preachy, but it's the words I'm familiar with. there's repentance. that's truly being sorry. it's realizing that you have hurt others. it's understanding why and how actions hurt. and there's redemption. sometimes you can't take back mistakes. and sometimes you have to work the rest of your life to regain the trust of those you have offended or hurt. you have to put forth the effort, take responsibility, stop blaming anyone but yourself, and initiate the healing process. and there's restitution. that's making things right. sometimes that means apologies. sometimes it means looking at yourself. sometimes it means examining yourself. it means making amends if possible. sometimes it means doing what's best for those you hurt. sometimes that means that you have to walk away. I'm not saying that's the answer. 

I do think that if you truly care and care about your own image that you'll give people here the space they need to begin to heal. When someone cares, they don't keep picking at wounds or the wounded. You wouldn't want anyone to do that to you if you were hurting. 

Sincerely, take some time, think things through. Don't make things worse for yourselves. You have friends that are standing up for you, too. I don't wish either of you ill will. I wish you both inner peace, and I hope that one day you do find that.


----------



## Angel

on a much lighter note...




Jack Skellington said:


> I respect that.




Will you still respect me in the morning? 



*giggles*


----------



## CleverBomb

Santaclear said:


> I want to ride the bomb down into the center, like that guy in _Dr. Strangelove._


"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here -- this is the War Room!"


-Rusty


----------



## KHayes666

What the hell did I just miss.....I feel like E G Marshall on that episode of the Twilight Zone where he's the only one left in the world. What happened on this thread?


----------



## Santaclear

KHayes666 said:


> What the hell did I just miss.....I feel like E G Marshall on that episode of the Twilight Zone where he's the only one left in the world. What happened on this thread?



It was Kelligrl, K. The mods had to delete her posts. She was wonderful! :wubu:


----------



## Angel

*eats the last meatball*

*tidies up the room*

*puts on a pot of coffee, a pot of decaf, and water for hot tea*

*sits out the donuts and bagels; paper plates and napkins*

*leaves a note: the cream cheese, fresh fruit, and orange juice is in the fridge. there's chocolate milk there, too.*

*readies for the morning crew*

Have a good day, everyone.


----------



## KHayes666

Santaclear said:


> It was Kelligrl, K. The mods had to delete her posts. She was wonderful! :wubu:



Well it took an hour but I went through all the pages up until now.....I can say I'm properly briefed on the situation.

I want no part of the drama, however, I will say I am here because I have an attraction to larger women, plain and simple.

Oh and to reply to Lilly from like 100 pages ago, I've seen you with and without makeup and I've found you to be just as lovely either way.

To the guy that said he was a thin man looking for a thin woman who likes fat guys.....Mac's Two Lounge is over there *points* you're in the wrong place.


----------



## Fascinita

OK, now I think I fear thin people.  

Coincidentally enough, thin people seem to fear _me_!

I think it's been said already, but I'll just repeat it, if only for my own benefit:

_Women of the world:_ No one has the right to tell you how you *should* look. You're OK just as you are, fat and dimples and all.




(It's not too late to put in my two cents, is it? :happy


----------



## Gspoon

I am a guy that loves the fat figure of a woman!


----------



## LillyBBBW

Wow. I've said plenty of cat nasty stuff in my travels. Got caught once or twice too. My nastiest sentiments are reserved for pretentious people, elitists and my boss. But I don't hang around with them aside from the instances where I'm forced to like through work or because we share mutual friends and I have to smile and behave myself for the sake of the greater good. Cheerfully rubbing elbows on a daily basis, attending parties and serving them cake though - that's a special kind of pathology. I'm not angry, I'm not even hurt, I'm intrigued. I've heard of stuff like this but never seen it up close. The images of you bringing cake to SummerG and watching her eat and you sitting on the sidelines watching the fatties swim in their bikinis has taken on a more eerie quality in my mind now. You're a pretty girl with plenty of social appeal. Two years in a subculture you loath when you don't have to seems unlikely. There's more going on there but of what I'm not so sure. I hope at some point you can figure it out. It's not about cankles though, I hope you know that.


----------



## Jane

_I don't care to belong to a club that accepts people like me as members. 
Groucho Marx _

Maybe it was something like this. People here accepted them with open arms, so they're sure that people here must have something wrong with them.


----------



## sirGordy

I came here to be an understanding person to those, marginalized wrongly by our biased and skinny obsessed society to let folks know that they are special, and loved too, and I for one do love them.


----------



## prickly

.......i really have nothing of value to add to this thread, but was feeling left out as everyone has written something...

IMO


----------



## Aliena

Excellent post Angel. I think it's true we should feel some sort of sadness for the "loves", because they don't have an understanding of what it means to truly like who they are, thus be comfortable in their own shoes. I honestly believe when we are ill at ease with what we are we deflect that discomfort by projecting onto others, that in essence, we DO admire. 

I imagine they are both wondering how it is a "subculture" can not only be comfortable with who they are, but actually LIKING who they are in a society that throws mockery and insults every corner turned. Perhaps for them it gave them some illusion of self value when on the _surface_ they're the norm, even though the inside has a lot to be desired. 

I feel sorry for them, because they are still carrying their insecurities while we're here building friendships and values to help and restore the faith of fat people. They had an opportunity to be apart of something grand and instead of taking what we have to offer and put it to good use in thier own lives, they've thrown it all away. Maybe what they have done, and how very wrong it was, will reach them someday, maybe not. We can still hold hope it will, while not letting it destroy our purpose, soundness, and individual selves. 

I'm not perfect, I've made some huge mistakes in my life when it comes to the people I've proclaimed friendship and love to. It's human nature to make mistakes with the heart and mind, stemming from what we wish we were vs. what we are. It's in those situations we determine what lessons to take with us and how to use said lessons; for the betterment or for the destruction of self. 
I like to think in my mistakes, I have taken the road of betterment and exemplify a quality of life which aims to love and not judge. If anything, be aware of those mistakes so as not to make the same mistakes again. 

I'd hug them too, even though I'm very hurt and upset with them. I like this place and have grown to respect all of it's contents and love the people within and it's just very upsetting to see something golden be tarnished by lack of empathy or understanding. 
But we must ask ourselves, how can we ask someone to have empathy and understanding for others if they're unable to give it to themselves. It's quite obvious the "loves" are unable to give themselves that kind of insight, so should we expect it to come our way? Unfortunately the answer is blatently obvious; no. 

I hope they will respect the wishes of those who have asked them to leave, to show they're truly sorry, and give time for healing. 
For those who support them, let them find another place to visit and share friendship. Being the Internet, this shouldn't be difficult to do. 










Angel said:


> just thinking 'out loud'
> 
> (don't expect proper grammer or punctuation)
> 
> I've been fat my entire life. supersized. a supersized kid. 115 at age six. 180 at age nine. 196 at age eleven. a super size teen. 212 at age thirteen. 240 at age sixteen. 250 at age eighteen. 296 at age nineteen. a supersize adult. 417 at age twenty-one.
> 
> funny. I can remember the doctor who delivered me telling my Mom that it was just baby fat and that I'd out grow it one day. I was an active kid. maybe not as active as the skinny kids my age. I didn't eat a lot of junk food. didn't run around with a pop bottle. everyone noticed how fat I was. noticed my little pot belly. nobody seemed to notice that I was more than a foot taller than the kids my age. or that I was well over five foot at age seven. or that I had breasts at age six and _had_ to wear a bra. or that I started way before other girls my age. all everyone ever noticed and commented on was how big I was. teachers. neighborhood kids. some family members. strangers. kids at school. adults in stores. they'd point. giggle. nudge their friends. laugh. make mooing sounds. say I looked like I was pregnant. that was at age nine. imagine being in grade school and not being able to wear cute clothing like the other girls. I was wearing a women's size 16 in the 1st grade. kids can be cruel. you know where they get that? from their parents. they pick up on the bias attitudes of their parents or adult role models. can't blame the young ones. they don't know any better.
> 
> as an adult I did everything my doctors advised. Optifast. Ultra fast. medically supervised liquid diets. 420 calories a day. for 12 weeks. then for 18 weeks. they couldn't understand why I wasn't losing weight. what are you doing? eating a whole roast? ummm no! 18 weeks. no solid food at all. I lost a whopping 35 pounds. 12 weeks. no food. gagged down the grainy shakes. walked. exercised. starved. and for what? 25 pounds! there must be something wrong with you. go to OA. go to this psychologist. I did. After multiple sessions, he wrote my doctors a detailed letter. He told me what what he wrote to them. there is nothing psychologically wrong with her. he told me. you didn't fail. the diets failed.
> 
> that was only the first half of my life as a fat female. that's probably about close to the ages of the two females who don't understand us fat women.
> 
> the baby fat never went away. when I was in my mid 20s an ob/gyn ran some tests. when my doctor saw the results, he ran more tests. I wasn't just fat because I ate too much. there were medical reasons. nobody ever thought of that. Get out and play. exercise. yeah. I did and I was still fat.
> 
> I don't want your sympathy. I want two females to understand. it could have very well been you; and there wouldn't have been anything you or your parents could have did to change things. you would have been FAT. you would have experienced the same mocking. the same cruel remarks. being ostracized. and maybe would have gained the one thing I did because of having grown up as a very fat child.
> 
> 
> COMPASSION.
> 
> 
> In retrospect would I want to change having been fat all through my childhood? that's a big FAT NO!
> 
> Being fat taught me how to treat others with respect. It's funny how a child internalizes everything. I never wanted anyone to hurt emotionally because I knew how that felt. I never felt a need to make fun of anyone. I understood, even as a child, how painful and humiliating it can be.
> 
> 
> I learned to be COMPASSIONATE and UNDERSTANDING.
> 
> 
> I realized that everyone was different in their own way, and that it wasn't their fault or because of anything they had done.
> 
> 
> When I was in the first grade, I remember my teacher taking me out into the hall.... away from the other kids. she asked me why I had been crying.
> 
> 
> Even as a child.... I carried the weight of the world upon my shoulders.
> 
> 
> 
> You know what, you two may despise me because I'm so fat...... but if I met either of you in person right now...... I'd hug you..... and hold you. You know why? Because I know there _has to be_ some very deep emotional pain that makes you feel the way you do. What did any of us (fat women here) ever do to you besides welcome you into this community? Did any of us truly hurt you to make you feel the way you do? I don't think so because if that were true you still wouldn't be here. I do think you see something in some of us that deep down you wish you could have, and maybe that's why you're still here. It's called inner peace.
> 
> I can only speak for myself. I don't hate you. I hate that some very fine and caring women have been hurt by your thoughtless actions. there's no saint in all of this mess. there wasn't a crucifixion. when someone is crucified, they are no more and they no longer have a voice. no one has silenced either of you. do you know why we have taken the time to express ourselves? it's not to crucify. maybe to get you to understand the error of your ways. but more importantly, I think it's because people want you to understand. you're not a lost cause. this is gonna sound preachy, but it's the words I'm familiar with. there's repentance. that's truly being sorry. it's realizing that you have hurt others. it's understanding why and how actions hurt. and there's redemption. sometimes you can't take back mistakes. and sometimes you have to work the rest of your life to regain the trust of those you have offended or hurt. you have to put forth the effort, take responsibility, stop blaming anyone but yourself, and initiate the healing process. and there's restitution. that's making things right. sometimes that means apologies. sometimes it means looking at yourself. sometimes it means examining yourself. it means making amends if possible. sometimes it means doing what's best for those you hurt. sometimes that means that you have to walk away. I'm not saying that's the answer.
> 
> I do think that if you truly care and care about your own image that you'll give people here the space they need to begin to heal. When someone cares, they don't keep picking at wounds or the wounded. You wouldn't want anyone to do that to you if you were hurting.
> 
> Sincerely, take some time, think things through. Don't make things worse for yourselves. You have friends that are standing up for you, too. I don't wish either of you ill will. I wish you both inner peace, and I hope that one day you do find that.


----------



## Jane

The next PM I receive concerning this issue, well let's just say I will not be as restrained as people were yesterday.

I will post the entire string in its entirity. If I am left alone, it will not be posted.

PM means nothing to me. There is no privacy. You're on the internet.


----------



## Tina

We DO have rules about not posting private emails on the boards, though, Jane, so please don't post them. Putting that person on ignore might not be a bad idea, though. I have seen them though (thank you for forwarding them to me), and will testify that there is no true remorse there whatsoever.

Wish there was a way to turn this all around and come up with a way to prevent this from happening again, but there isn't. The only way to even begin to prevent it is to stop trusting, and I personally do not like that option. We all have to decide that for ourselves, though.


----------



## Aliena

Jane said:


> The next PM I receive concerning this issue, well let's just say I will not be as restrained as people were yesterday.
> 
> I will post the entire string in its entirity. If I am left alone, it will not be posted.
> 
> PM means nothing to me. There is no privacy. You're on the internet.




Well again I'm clueless, but from what I gather from Tina's response the beheaded snake writhers around trying to be as destructive as possible. 

This sucks; there's no grace in any part.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Fascinita said:


> OK, now I think I fear thin people.
> 
> Coincidentally enough, thin people seem to fear _me_!
> 
> I think it's been said already, but I'll just repeat it, if only for my own benefit:
> 
> _Women of the world:_ No one has the right to tell you how you *should* look. You're OK just as you are, fat and dimples and all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (It's not too late to put in my two cents, is it? :happy



You know...that's what I was thinking. It didn't surprise me, either, about LovesBHMs. Some of her posts lately had a rather negative vibe to them and I was realizing this past week that others were picking up on it, too. I could tell she had some issues with us fatties. From some of her posts, I garnered she was put off by some things said over on the weight board. 

What does surprise me is Maire. She is a feminist (or that is how she strikes me) and did this. I expected her to be supportive of ALL women...no matter the size or what they look like. Looking down on a woman for how she looks...wow, that's not something I expected from someone that believes in equality.
Was it wrong of me to expect more? She is human- and as fallible as the rest of us. I'm not defending her (nor attacking)....just saying that I'm surprised. I hope you take this lesson with you, Maire. I believe that, irregardless of what you said, you can do good things with your life. I believe that you want to......

I know this was a harsh lesson...one you didn't see coming. The hardest lessons in life seem to be the ones that make us better people.


----------



## JoyJoy

One thing that keeps sticking in my head comes from a very valuable lesson I've learned (one that I don't always remember, but I do try). When you've wronged someone, often it's simply best to say as little as possible, other than to express regret. Trying to justify your actions often makes things worse and drives the knife in even deeper, as we've seen here; even if you think you were justified or have been wronged yourself. 

Fewer words makes it easier to sort things out once the period of anger has passed. The more excuses there are from the offending parties, the higher the walls go. So, enough. Leave already...you've done about all you can do here at this point in time. 

As my Grandpa used to say, "Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya."


----------



## Surlysomething

I'm quite surprised that no one has closed this thread. The whole thing is a dis-service to this site.

I might as well throw my two cents in. Why not, everyone else has. Haha.


1-The only person I think that banning should apply to is the person that leaked the private emails. Adios. If someone in my life told something that I had said to confidence to ANYONE they would be cut out. End of story. You're the biggest loser in my eyes.

2-Grow a thick skin, people. Everyone talks smack about other people, everywhere. Acting all shocked is not warranted.

3-Trust no one

4-Hedgehog

5-Ernest Nagel=Fail


----------



## bigsexy920

You do realise they leaked their own e-mail right? 



Surlysomething said:


> 1-The only person I think that banning should apply to is the person that leaked the private emails. Adios. If someone in my life told something that I had said to confidence to ANYONE they would be cut out. End of story. You're the biggest loser in my eyes.


----------



## JoyJoy

Again, for the "nth" time..it's NOT about the fact they were talking shit. That's in no way shocking. We all know it happens everywhere, all the time, and is undoubtedly happening in private somewhere right this second...big whoop. 

If you can't figure out why people are upset, then you haven't really read the thread, or you just don't get it and never will.


----------



## out.of.habit

Nevereffingmind.

Makes me angrier than it'll make you.


----------



## superodalisque

is anybody else getting bored yet?


----------



## Surlysomething

I'm not here to debate my reasons. We all feel the way we do, i'm not going to justify anything.


And no, I don't believe they leaked their own private messages.



My feelings aren't hurt here. Sorry.


----------



## saucywench

Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_I can't take back what I said, and I won't._
Spoken like a petulant child. I get a visual image of foot-stomping and breath-holding.

Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_I stand by the mean things I said-_
Whew--glad that's working for you in your life.

Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_…for I said them in a state of cruelty, because it amused me, and because it was an easy target._
:blink:

Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_Because I didn't like what I saw, nor how I believe it to come about_
Whew again.

Your introductory post of 03-03-2006 (yeah, I’m going _that_ deep) states: 
Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_I'm a university student, intent upon studying women's studies and history._

And then, on 3-15-2006, you say:
Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_I think that removing gender stereotypes would benefit society. Removing stereotypes in general would be awesome; I'm hopeful that by the time most of us are young adults we have noticed the true nature of stereotypes, but sometimes it just isn't true. And with some stereotypes, it is still acceptable in society to accept and to perpetuate them.… But, then there are stereotypes that have fallen in between the cracks….stereotypes like "overweight people just have no willpower to stop eating"…. For some reason, [this is] okay.... __*So, why do yous all think that the society turns a blind eye when certain stereotypes or epithets are used? What's qualifies one stereotype as bad and another as acceptable?*_
I think, little girl, that you need to look deep within yourself and find the answers to those questions that you have posed. I also think that the money invested in your education has proven to be a waste, but—guess what, folks—that’s _JMO_. 

(That internet’s an ol’ bitch, ain’t it? And all the more reason why we _all_ should take careful consideration and forethought before pressing Send or Submit.) 

Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_…and I was very nasty about it. I was being extremely juvenile, and virulent. I accept that there are many who hate me, are disappointed with me, and hope I die in a fire. I can't change that, either._
Yes. Yes. Likely—a wildly varying combination. Guess not, huh?

Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_I was doing what many people do, day in and day out,_
Oh, really? The world that your brain inhabits must be very sad and desolate, indeed.

Let me get this straight. You justify your despicable behavior (resolved in some misguided and transmuted “safety in numbers” notion) on the basis that “everybody does it”—therefore, this somehow frees you of culpability.

_Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people. -_*Eleanor Roosevelt* 
Food for thought. 

Have you never aspired to raise yourself above baseness? Ever?

Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_…except instead of targeting someone's fashion or intelligence, I targeted bodies. It just so happened that the insults were fat-based on a fat website, as opposed to the whisperings in between Yahoo mailboxes or secular forums._
Yes. It happened just so. 

What is evidently lost to you is that, in doing so, you desecrated one of the few spots in the world (and I say that without hyperbole) where fat people and the people who genuinely love, admire, and support them can gather, presumably free--through the efforts of Conrad and the moderators--from anyone who would cause them harm. In this regard, the fact that an error in code led to your true nature being revealed for all to see is irrelevant. It is completely and unequivocally irrelevant, as your presence here has consequently been shown to be antithetical to Dimensions’ _raison d’etre_. 

Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_Did I enjoy being vindictive in those conversation? Yes._
A heaping dose of self-examination is in order, then. &#8216;Nuff said about that. 

Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_Believe it or not. I am no differeht than the other members on this board who have viciously mocked their peers, via PM and on the phone. Except their dirty laundry was not aired._
You have overlooked a very critical point: you are *not* a peer *within this particular context*, which is the context of Dimensions. Your argument is invalidated by that simple fact. 

Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_Did they mock their fellow posters because of their bodies, their perceived promiscuity, their intelligence? You're damn right they did._
See above.

Again, your argument is invalidated, but, to make a point, I’ll play along. 

The *paramount* association of the term peer—*within the context of Dimensions*—would be, for example, one fat person to another or one FA to another. As far as any other consideration beyond those examples, you’re talking about some other like-minded website/forum on the Internet. _In that regard,_ and to use your examples, Dimensions *at its foundation and heart* does not exist for the discussion of sexuality or intelligence. To consider yourself a peer within the context of your examples used, you would be talking about—oh, I don’t know…say—a site that was created for and which the primary membership consists of sexually active 20-somethings [perceived promiscuity], or a MENSA forum [intelligence].

To wrap this point up, the things that you said (and so obviously _feel_ in a larger and more fundamental context) about Ginny and AnnMarie (and by extension the rest of us fat folk) *were not the words of a peer*. You are _not_ a fat female. Within the sociological framework of Dimensions, you were in effect establishing a division in which you held yourself to a higher (read, more socially and aesthetically acceptable) standard than them. 

Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_They were lucky that one person did not get a hold of their conversation and circulate it._
*marks with red ink* Invalidated and inconsequential. Weak argument (all things considered). 

Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_Again, I take responsibility for what I said._
I’ve looked and looked. I’m not seeing that. 

Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_I do feel terrible that people have been hurt._
I firmly believe that you feel terrible for not nearly enough of the right reasons. 

Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_I know I will never get trust back._
No skin off my nose. 

Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_I wholly accept that my apology will fall on blind eyes._
_There are none so blind as those who will not see. -_*Jonathan Swift* 

Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_I was acting very childishly_
Looks like an opportune time to grow up. 

Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_and can only work on removing that negative thought process from my head, and not doing such a thing again._
First (and only) smart thing you’ve said. 

Originally Posted by *love dubh* 
_I just hope that I can salvage something here._
That? Debatable. 

If by here you mean Dimensions, understand that—if you are allowed to continue to be a part of this community—every word that flies from your fingertips on the keyboard that lands anywhere on this site will be held up to intense scrutiny, as though under an electron microscope--as I have shown here by example. 

In private discussions as to whether either or both of you should be banned, comparisons have been made to a harsh prison sentence, in that justice would be best served by you being forced to live out the rest of your (Dimensions) days behind bars—bars that you yourself have built, through your gross misunderstanding of what it inherently means to live in a fat body—as opposed to swift execution [banishment].

Like it or not, you both have become emblematic of precisely that which we seek to avoid here. 

*Ab uno disce omnes*


----------



## mossystate

You are right. The two did not ' leak ' the messages. That was a third party who received the messages by one of the two. The third party obviously knew it was important that the fat person hating twosome not flourish out here, as I am sure the third party knows and likes many people out here, some of whom are probably very fat people.

If the third party had kept the information to themselves, they might have felt horrible, knowing the twosome would go on to meet more very fat people from this site, and knowing that they would have been snickering all the while. Not knowing is one thing. Knowing means decisions have to be made to help a larger group, as this was really not, at the end of the day, about particular people mentioned in the messages.


The bigger picture and all..etc..etc...


----------



## stan_der_man

This thread got me to thinking... (Mtmaiden always hates when that happens...  )


What if fat acceptance finally catches on and one of these days cankles become the "fashionable body shape"? You know, instead of "thin in is in", we would be living in a world with sayings like "cankles give the guys spankles" (I know, that one needs work... It's hard finding words that rhyme with cankle...) Anyhoo... It could get to the point where the Miss Venezuelas of the world go to their plastic surgens in Caracas or Mexico City and get themselves cankle implants. We could be seeing the thin gals needing a support group of some type... Dimensions might eventually turn into "Thinmenchens"... We really are on the cutting edge here people, we need to be careful with what we are leading the world into... you know?


----------



## LillyBBBW

fa_man_stan said:


> This thread got me to thinking... (Mtmaiden always hates when that happens...  )
> 
> 
> What if fat acceptance finally catches on and one of these days cankles become the "fashionable body shape"? You know, instead of "thin in is in", we would be living in a world with sayings like "cankles give the guys spankles" (I know, that one needs work... It's hard finding words that rhyme with cankle...) Anyhoo... It could get to the point where the Miss Venezuelas of the world go to their plastic surgens in Caracas or Mexico City and get themselves cankle implants. We could be seeing the thin gals needing a support group of some type... Dimensions might eventually turn into "Thinmenchens"... We really are on the cutting edge here people, we need to be careful with what we are leading the world into... you know?



Skinny ankles will then be referred to as skankles.


----------



## Jane

LillyBBBW said:


> Skinny ankles will then be referred to as skankles.



They're not? Who knew?


----------



## stan_der_man

LillyBBBW said:


> Skinny ankles will then be referred to as skankles.



Yeah... I'm tellin' ya Lilly... First bootie is going to get popular, we're already starting to see that... Bootie, then love handle implants... then cankles will be next!


----------



## saucywench

Surlysomething said:


> I'm quite surprised that no one has closed this thread. The whole thing is a dis-service to this site.
> 
> I might as well throw my two cents in. Why not, everyone else has. Haha.
> 
> 
> 1-The only person I think that banning should apply to is the person that leaked the private emails. Adios. If someone in my life told something that I had said to confidence to ANYONE they would be cut out. End of story. You're the biggest loser in my eyes.
> 
> 2-Grow a thick skin, people. Everyone talks smack about other people, everywhere. Acting all shocked is not warranted.
> 
> 3-Trust no one
> 
> 4-Hedgehog
> 
> 5-Ernest Nagel=Fail


6-Your sig line (inserted here, before you remove it): _If you don't have anything nice to say, come sit next to me. _

_lolololol_
_lolololo_
_lololol_
_lololo_
_lolol_
_lolo_
_lol_
_lo_
_l_

_Err..._

:huh::blink::huh::blink:


----------



## Mathias

The fact that Love dubh hopes to salvage something here, yet refuses to recant on those statements speaks volumes more to me then some "apology" ever could. 

Just thought I'd speak my mind since everyone else is.


----------



## Asrai

Nothing to see here folks.


----------



## Wagimawr

Actually, no, it's simply a literary collusion of words, that just happens to include an unfortunate term within it. Probably a bad idea to put that word out into the consciousness, though.


----------



## LisaInNC

Asrai said:


> So calling all thin women skanks is ok but say something negative about the fat or obese and the entire site becomes a lynchmob.
> 
> You are no better than those who hate fat people.



What the fuck are you talking about? Did your parents have any children that lived? Hello Private Gump..."skankles" Skinny + Ankles = Skankles


----------



## mossystate

Well, I agree that I do not want this to be an opportunity for people to say one type of body/part is better than another. I do think that what is happening is a letting off of some steam. I don't hope that the world views fat any more attractive than thin. I don't think that SOME folks want what they find attractive, to be the end all be all.

All ankles are good ankles.


----------



## Asrai

LisaInNC said:


> What the fuck are you talking about? Did your parents have any children that lived? Hello Private Gump..."skankles" Skinny + Ankles = Skankles



Woah, sorry for misunderstanding. :blush:

Thought she meant "skankle" as in skank and ankle. :doh:

Your hateful comments though were totally unnecessary.


----------



## largenlovely

awooowoooo....when Lilly gets back you're gonna geeeeeeet iiiiiiiiiiiit

*puts on my helmet and hides in the corner under the couch*



Asrai said:


> So calling all thin women skanks is ok but say something negative about the fat or obese and the entire site becomes a lynchmob.
> 
> You are no better than those who hate fat people.


----------



## Tina

Asrai said:


> You are no better than those who hate fat people.


Yes, we know, you've said this several times now. Do you realize you're repeating yourself? 

Uh, there are a number of thin women here, and thin people in general, and we do not hate them for being thin. Nice try (if a bit lame), though.


----------



## LisaInNC

Asrai said:


> Woah, sorry for misunderstanding. :blush:
> 
> Thought she meant "skankle" as in skank and ankle. :doh:
> 
> Thanks for the hateful insults though, really necessary.



Eh well, I figured you deserved them for saying Lilly was no better than the Fat-Haters..besides...a post from me without something hateful in it...well it wouldnt be a post from me.


----------



## Jane

Asrai said:


> So calling all thin women skanks is ok but say something negative about the fat or obese and the entire site becomes a lynchmob.
> 
> You are no better than those who hate fat people.



SKinny ANKLES!!!!

Skankles.

Damn your mind falls right into it, doesn't it.

Doesn't the chip on your shoulder get heavy at times?


----------



## Asrai

Jane said:


> SKinny ANKLES!!!!
> 
> Skankles.
> 
> Damn your mind falls right into it, doesn't it.
> 
> Doesn't the chip on your shoulder get heavy at times?



Nope, I'm fueled by filth and fury. 

This time though it was totally misdirected. :blush:


----------



## BeautifulPoeticDisaster

lol. this thread has fulfilled many needs....and now it fills my need for the word of the day. lolz....skankles...lolz


----------



## Famouslastwords

(((((donni)))))))))


----------



## moore2me

saucywench said:


> 6-Your sig line (inserted here, before you remove it): _If you don't have *anything nice to say*, come sit next to me. _



And, if you are going to do bad things, you can come sit next to me.


----------



## bigsexy920

When you send a private message to someone that is was not ment for - it is no longer private - thats just how I see it.


----------



## Jane

bigsexy920 said:


> When you send a private message to someone that is was not ment for - it is no longer private - thats just how I see it.



There is not only a "reply" but a "forward" feature on the PM's....they ain't that private.


----------



## stan_der_man

Asrai said:


> Woah, sorry for misunderstanding. :blush:
> 
> Thought she meant "skankle" as in skank and ankle. :doh:
> 
> Your hateful comments though were totally unnecessary.



skinny + ankle = skankle...


That's humor son... humor!


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Does anyone else want a Margarita? I'm sitting today out. But the posts are quite interesting.

You know where you can find me. On the couch in the corner mixing Margaritas and eating popcorn. Good day people.


----------



## stan_der_man

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Does anyone else want a Margarita? I'm sitting today out. But the posts are quite interesting.
> 
> You know where you can find me. On the couch in the corner mixing Margaritas and eating popcorn. Good day people.



Muy bueno idea señorita! I'll come join you for some margaritas and popcorn... The spagetti was tasty by the way!


----------



## Mathias

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Does anyone else want a Margarita? I'm sitting today out. But the posts are quite interesting.
> 
> You know where you can find me. On the couch in the corner mixing Margaritas and eating popcorn. Good day people.



I don't drink but would you share some of that popcorn?


----------



## rainyday

saucywench said:


> [...the fact that an error in code led to your true nature being revealed for all to see is irrelevant. It is completely and unequivocally irrelevant, as your presence here has consequently been shown to be antithetical to Dimensions _raison detre_.



I think, like most folks who bully and snicker at fat people, there's another element at play. Not only do they see their own bigotry as okay, in their minds it's a no-brainer that as second-class citizens we should be expected to shut up and take it and still want their company even after they're exposed. I think that second insult almost makes me madder than the first.

Who can't picture a bully taunting a fat kid on a playground then later making like she still wants to be the fat kid's friend (likely for the opportunity to make sport of her all over again). We drive, have jobs and wear more expensive clothes now, but we're not all that far removed from those playground mentalities even as adults.

There's a certain level of fucked-up pathology in a situation where you're exposed engaging in something like those PMs, yet you still expect the fatties to want to interact with you again in spite of it. Why? What the hell could you possibly have left to bring to the party that we would want?


----------



## stan_der_man

MattS19 said:


> I don't drink but would you share some of that popcorn?



If you don't drink Matt we could freeze a margarita for ya... You could _eat_ one instead!


----------



## Mathias

fa_man_stan said:


> If you don't drink Matt we could freeze a margarita for ya... You could _eat_ one instead!



Well, that changes everything entirely then!


----------



## mango

*As per my 'ode to the cankle' limerick in the limerick thread, my word of the week is:

wankle

Definition: the act of masturbating over the pleasure of seeing the sight of ankles (of any size or shape).


*


----------



## Surlysomething

saucywench said:


> 6-Your sig line (inserted here, before you remove it): _If you don't have anything nice to say, come sit next to me. _
> 
> 
> _Err..._



I'm glad you enjoy it so much. I think i'll leave it up FOREVER.



Haha.

LOL
LOL
:doh:


----------



## Eclectic_Girl

mango said:


> *As per my 'ode to the cankle' limerick in the limerick thread, my word of the week is:
> 
> wankle
> 
> Definition: the act of masturbating over the pleasure of seeing the sight of ankles (of any size or shape).
> 
> 
> *



Used in a sentence:

Victorian England was a wankle-fest.


----------



## Mathias

mango said:


> *As per my 'ode to the cankle' limerick in the limerick thread, my word of the week is:
> 
> wankle
> 
> Definition: the act of masturbating over the pleasure of seeing the sight of ankles (of any size or shape).
> 
> 
> *



You'll be reciving rep from me very soon!


----------



## LisaInNC

mango said:


> *As per my 'ode to the cankle' limerick in the limerick thread, my word of the week is:
> 
> wankle
> 
> Definition: the act of masturbating over the pleasure of seeing the sight of ankles (of any size or shape).
> 
> 
> *


LMAO...Mango you are killing me this week!!


----------



## KHayes666

largenlovely said:


> awooowoooo....when Lilly gets back you're gonna geeeeeeet iiiiiiiiiiiit
> 
> *puts on my helmet and hides in the corner under the couch*



I can still see you


----------



## OfftoOtherPlaces

A wankle sounds like something you wear on your head.

On second thought, keep that stuff away from my hair. I'll stick with gel, thanks.

Although I bet it'd make a great foot-cream. Eh, I mean ankle cream.


----------



## TraciJo67

mossystate said:


> All ankles are good ankles.



I have baggy ankles and I refer to the veins chasing circles around them as my anklets. It's all good though ... right?


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

love dubh said:


> *I can't take back what I said, and I won't. I stand by the mean things I said* - for I said them in a state of cruelty, because it amused me, and *because it was an easy target*. Because I didn't like what I saw, nor how I believe it to come about, and I was very nasty about it. I was being extremely juvenile, and virulent. I accept that there are many who hate me, are disappointed with me, and hope I die in a fire.
> I can't change that, either.
> 
> I was doing what many people do, day in and day out, except instead of targeting someone's fashion or intelligence, I targeted bodies. It just so happened that the insults were fat-based on a fat website, as opposed to the whisperings in between Yahoo mailboxes or secular forums.
> 
> Did I enjoy being vindictive in those conversation? Yes. Did I stop that line of conversation? Yes. Is that all I spoke about with LoveBHMs? No. Believe it or not. I am no differeht than the other members on this board who have viciously mocked their peers, via PM and on the phone. Except their dirty laundry was not aired. Did they mock their fellow posters because of their bodies, their perceived promiscuity, their intelligence? You're damn right they did. They were lucky that one person did not get a hold of their conversation and circulate it.
> 
> Again, I take responsibility for what I said. I do feel terrible that people have been hurt. I know I will never get trust back; I wholly accept that my apology will fall on blind eyes. I was acting very childishly, and can only work on removing that negative thought process from my head, and not doing such a thing again. I just hope that I can salvage something here.



Maire - if you're still around...

As I've said, the original PMs did not hurt me. Cankles? Whatever.

This, though? Read your response through my eyes...the eyes of someone who has considered you a friend (I'd venture to say even a good one) over the last couple of years...and tell me how THIS feels.

Cankles? wtf-ever. Saying what you did up there? Yeah. THAT hurt.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Asrai said:


> Woah, sorry for misunderstanding. :blush:
> 
> Thought she meant "skankle" as in skank and ankle. :doh:
> 
> Your hateful comments though were totally unnecessary.



I forgive you Asrai. :bow: And just as a point of trivia, I have skankles.


----------



## Sweet Tooth

mango said:


> *As per my 'ode to the cankle' limerick in the limerick thread, my word of the week is:
> 
> wankle
> 
> Definition: the act of masturbating over the pleasure of seeing the sight of ankles (of any size or shape).
> 
> 
> *



Oh, great. Now I have a word for that shudder-worthy vision of Chippy and his spatula. :blink:

[For the rodent: I do love ya, but ankle spooge is a personal turn-off.]


----------



## Aurora1

I'd just like to say that the love is GONE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beGjncfEPt8

and furthermore someone may be gayhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BI7ry5oL0Y but gay is ok with me 

and last but not least http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8XC7idFyvE
and THAT is all


----------



## largenlovely

just HOW many appletini's have you had tonight girl lol....i'm trying to figure out what this means hahaha

either way, i love ya to pieces ..so the love is not ALL gone LOL



Aurora1 said:


> I'd just like to say that the love is GONE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beGjncfEPt8
> 
> and furthermore someone may be gayhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BI7ry5oL0Y but gay is ok with me
> 
> and last but not least http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8XC7idFyvE
> and THAT is all


----------



## LisaInNC

Heh she has been sniffing glue again!!


----------



## largenlovely

well...she got rep for confusing the fuck out of me lol



LisaInNC said:


> Heh she has been sniffing glue again!!


----------



## mergirl

och.. you know what..ive read those stupid pm's and they seem to me like a silly catty convo. those in glass houses and all that.. if any of you can seriously say you have never said anything bitchy about anyone EVER then you have the right to jump on the condeming bandwagon. 
i know that ive pm'd my friends and bitched about how minging kate moss is and how you could play xylophone on her ribs... i guess though if that got posted accidentally on a "thin acceptance" site i may well stir up a lot of deeply rooted emotions..from peeps that have been struggling with thin acceptance issues for thier whole lives.
I believe in freedom of speach.. but that comes at a price ..and sometimes your not going to like what you hear..
do i think what they said was silly? yessum..
but they were just commenting on something particular that they dont find attractive..
albeit in a kinna bitchy way..
but i think you should all lay your pitchforks down.. cause a monster is being created where there is none,, and i'm sure those concerned are well driven out of town...
i hope not though..cause i feel the road to acceptance is forgiveness,,(trite though It may sound).. 
you need to face problems like this and try to understand the reaoning behind it all..
anyway.. i dont even know these people.. and my flaming torch is on holiday.. so i shall go to bed and dream of cankles (or whatever you kids are calling them these days).
peace xxmer


----------



## Leesa

:blush: I am here because I LOVE YOU! :blush:


----------



## Jane

mergirl said:


> och.. you know what..ive read those stupid pm's and they seem to me like a silly catty convo. those in glass houses and all that.. if any of you can seriously say you have never said anything bitchy about anyone EVER then you have the right to jump on the condeming bandwagon.
> i know that ive pm'd my friends and bitched about how minging kate moss is and how you could play xylophone on her ribs... i guess though if that got posted accidentally on a "thin acceptance" site i may well stir up a lot of deeply rooted emotions..from peeps that have been struggling with thin acceptance issues for thier whole lives.
> I believe in freedom of speach.. but that comes at a price ..and sometimes your not going to like what you hear..
> do i think what they said was silly? yessum..
> but they were just commenting on something particular that they dont find attractive..
> albeit in a kinna bitchy way..
> but i think you should all lay your pitchforks down.. cause a monster is being created where there is none,, and i'm sure those concerned are well driven out of town...
> i hope not though..cause i feel the road to acceptance is forgiveness,,(trite though It may sound)..
> you need to face problems like this and try to understand the reaoning behind it all..
> anyway.. i dont even know these people.. and my flaming torch is on holiday.. so i shall go to bed and dream of cankles (or whatever you kids are calling them these days).
> peace xxmer



And just when everyone moves on, someone comes back in to stir the shit up again.


----------



## JoyJoy

Jane said:


> And just when everyone moves on, someone comes back in to stir the shit up again.


 And another someone who JUST DOESN'T GET IT. :doh: Where's Worf when we need him?


----------



## Paquito

Jane said:


> And just when everyone moves on, someone comes back in to stir the shit up again.



I definetely think that we aren't close to moving on, think it was just the calm before another storm.


----------



## Tina

mergirl said:


> och.. you know what..ive read those stupid pm's and they seem to me like a silly catty convo. those in glass houses and all that.. if any of you can seriously say you have never said anything bitchy about anyone EVER then you have the right to jump on the condeming bandwagon.
> i know that ive pm'd my friends and bitched about how minging kate moss is and how you could play xylophone on her ribs... i guess though if that got posted accidentally on a "thin acceptance" site i may well stir up a lot of deeply rooted emotions..from peeps that have been struggling with thin acceptance issues for thier whole lives.
> I believe in freedom of speach.. but that comes at a price ..and sometimes your not going to like what you hear..
> do i think what they said was silly? yessum..
> but they were just commenting on something particular that they dont find attractive..
> albeit in a kinna bitchy way..
> but i think you should all lay your pitchforks down.. cause a monster is being created where there is none,, and i'm sure those concerned are well driven out of town...
> i hope not though..cause i feel the road to acceptance is forgiveness,,(trite though It may sound)..
> you need to face problems like this and try to understand the reaoning behind it all..
> anyway.. i dont even know these people.. and my flaming torch is on holiday.. so i shall go to bed and dream of cankles (or whatever you kids are calling them these days).
> peace xxmer



Your post is duly noted.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Leesa said:


> :blush: I am here because I LOVE YOU! :blush:



Leesa - you are the sweetest, kindest nicest person I know. I'm glad you're here. You make this place better.:wubu:

Sandie


----------



## irish_redhead

I've been following the drama because, well - quite frankly, I have nothing better to do. I have a cold, and have no desire to do anything other than wallow in my own misery, and read message board drama. 

There's nothing further that really needs to be said on anyone's part. I'm not involved in this, I don't know the people who are involved... but I've been in similar situations, and I've seen it happen to people I care about. 

I'm not going to debate the privacy issue or any other arguments about who is the better/worse person in that whole fiasco. I'm not going to defend anyone - though I can see some points of view. 

What I am going to say is this - I am not a better person than anyone else here. Nor am I any worse. 

I'm a total bitch. I go to concerts and critique/comment on poor fashion choices, hairstyles or attitudes. I bitch about some people I don't like based upon their behaviour, but I'm not above calling them a name or 2 if I feel heated. Sure, I can be petty and nasty and all that shit. 

BUT - 

I stand behind everything I say. Usually it's the same shit I've said to the person to their face. I don't care if you find out that I called you a skank or ugly or a cougar etc. If I didn't want you to know, then I wouldn't say it TO ANYONE - I'd keep my thoughts to myself. 

AND - 

I'd never do that shit to a group of people I pretended were my friends. 

I have friends who are fat, skinny, ugly, old, psycho, unbalanced, lonely, losers, geeks, social rejects etc. That's how other people may see them, but I don't have that perception because they are friends and I see the good in them - not just the outward appearance. 

I'd also never choose to be a part of a community that I held such contempt for. I'd not want to blend in and be friendly with the people that I felt worthy of such criticism. I wouldn't be chummy and polite and encouraging to a group of people, only to turn around and cut them up with my "cooler" friends. That's not just catty - that's being a manipulative, two-faced bitch, and represents someone with an inferiority complex and huge insecurities of their own. There may be people here (and elsewhere in life) who I dislike based on their attitude and posts - but I make a choice not to interact. I don't start belittling their pictures or making fun of their appearance because they come off as a bitch online. And I don't align myself with them as a friend so I can get more ammunition for my own purposes. I just simply choose not to bother with them.

So before people start playing the "pot meet kettle" card, consider the actions taken. This is not an incident of giggling over a fat chick at the food court, or having a good laugh at a nerd with pimples, or gawking at anime and LARP kids play-fighting at a convention. This is a case of betrayal - not merely bigotry and elitism. 

And, as has been apparent - there are people whose feelings were hurt and they feel entitled to hold on to their anger. And there are people who hurt others, and they feel victimized in return. And there are people who feel angry at the behaviour, the "privacy" aspect, the betrayals and the resulting "lynching"... they are all entitled to their feelings, and all feelings are valid because they are representative of each individual. Whether someone is right or wrong does not mean they aren't entitled to they way they feel - and no one is going to be able to change people's minds here. There is no determination of right or wrong on a grand scale - only the individualized moral opinion. I think what these women did was wrong. I don't think that sharing the information was wrong (but then, I love gossip, and I feel that people have a right to know anything, even if it's hurtful, and form their own decision about how to react to the information!). I do feel that the mob mentality of lynching or banning is wrong, but only because I dislike anyone reacting as a group with such hostility towards anyone who has a middle-ground reaction. I do feel that these women staying here in spite of all of this is wrong - if they aren't wanted here, why stay? But these are MY opinions only - and I don't have all the facts in this matter. Only a few people really do. 

Arguing endlessly is as hopeless as debating abortion, religion, politics or who should win American Idol. People's minds are already made up - they believe what they believe, and they feel what they feel. Expression is cathartic, but don't look for any great revelations from this debate, or think that opinion is going to influence any outcomes.


----------



## Amatrix

so, it took me close to 3 days to read everyones posts here.

and because "everyone" has gone and done this thread... i thought i would chime in as well.

i didnt know either of the people or even the person who leaked whatever. i did understand that some nasty hurtful things were said, and you are either for them leaving, or for forgiving them.

i have not seen the PMs, nor do i really want to. im pretty sure they had nothing to do with me, and that is why i dont want to see them. even if they did... i probably wouldnt want to read it by now. not that ignorance is bliss... but clearly these people who are judging others in their own personal circles feel a degree of safety, even if it was incorrect to get this level of trust by undesired means. i understand they hurt many people, on purpose or inadvertently.but, they were only hurting themselves. i hope they learn their lessons, and sadly this re-enforces that saying - ya know... that golden rule. do unto others and such.


I have been fat for most of my life. I always thought it was stupid how the thinner girls called me fat, and I called them skanks... when your in a circle of girls and there is that hyped up tension...things happen.

so, one day... i skipped lunch. then dinner, and i also ran 3 miles every other day. i swam on the days i didnt run, until i couldnt move. i would envision hair and mold on my food so i wouldnt eat. i wouldnt take money for food, and i had a strict diet. i had tylenol and tums with a diet pepsi for breakfast and lunch. i had one cup of steamed veggies at night an a palm sized amount of meat *regularly skinless chicken breast, poached.*

i was once a size 8. 

i was picked on in school, and even ganged up upon by a few of the cheerleaders, to the point of hospitalization. i also spit gum into their hair, and mashed sardines into their clothes.i fought back once and broke a girls nose.

then i gained everything and then some back. am i happier? yes i am.this is who i am naturally, without denying myself certain things and even often simply indulging into something fattening or tasty.i have changed. im no longer blaming other people for my faults. im not blaming the thinner, prettier, more talented, intelligent people in my life for not guiding me.this is my life, and i took it back.i am not blaming people who were hurt by this, sensitivity is a personal thing. i am taking responsibility for it as well, every step.i have learned there will always be someone more talented, skilled, attractive then myself. to me, though... that makes me all the more interesting. im not mediocre- i am me. i have self love, and respect for others. even if i dont agree with them, or even see their point.

people were fake when i was thinner. they pretended to like me, and used me.people are still fake, and have used me while i am a now size 32.every scar, self inflicted or carved by another's hand surfaces at some point, sometimes continually. i think how we learn and process this decides who we are, cause and consequence.

i now eat whatever i want, when i want. i walk a mile or so each day, sometimes more. im active, in different ways.

i recently made peace with the girls who ganged up on me in school. they did it simply because one said she was jealous of my artistic talents *she wanted the scholarships i got*, another was upset with me because her boyfriend at the time talked about me *he was my cousin but she didnt know that, we have different last names...*, and the third just went along with the crowd to NOT be an outcast. i also have seen the girl, the one who i rearranged her face. she has 2 lovely children, and is a nurse.

im here because no matter what size someone is, or sex, or fetish... they deserve respect. they deserve a safe haven. i do, as does anyone else.when that is violated then i think it is up to the person/s involved to make a point, or come to a conclusion. i do not think there is anything wrong with a "outing" of people, as long as people who are being outed have a way to respond. in this case they did, and to me it was unsatisfactory. then again- like i said... i dont know them, but with this information i dont really want to. and the more information i have about someone, primarily how they treat others... lets me know if i can forgive them or not.that is my own right.

to betray someone with the idea that i am a science experiment upsets me, im not really a mutant.i personally dont care that much though if i am discussed, as i know i have been and will be again. and anything i have ever said about anyone- negative or positive- i have always said to their face.i think thats what upsets me the most about the idea of the content of the "PMs" that were spread about.

there have been times when i have posted something and havent felt totally accepted for it here, and thats because after closer looking at it- they simply didnt share my point of view and i was actually offended about how elitist i came off as.not because someone else disagreed, or proved me wrong... but because i expected everyone to go along with what i said, and was personally let down when i remembered they have their own minds/wills.and then i did appreciate my own post and all the others more...im kinda a hippie... all into humanitarianism and individuality.celebrating differences and acknowledging similarities.

im not perfect. i have poor grammar. i lack cankles.half the time... i ramble.

but i respect someone enough to say whatever i feel to their face, and not behind their backs. with friends like that... who needs foes? i am sorry to whoever they hurt that you were betrayed to that point, as i understand some of you were and are very close to these people who did this.im sorry that everyone found out how these people really feel.and then again... im not. gave me more information on everyone, and myself. i even sat in the corner and munched the popcorn, i tried to take pictures of my skankles, but ended up drinking the margaritas.some of you are all very passionate about things, some take it with a grain of salt, some of you are forgiving and some of you are not so much. all of you though... are pretty awesome.:happy:

even online or the lol-interwebz... i still see you all as real people. not personalities.i would like to think that others regard me as well, instead of some flippy sexually charged techno dreamy eyed fat girl.

i do like it here. i frequent this place more then any other site.

im here, because i am fat. im here because i care about other fat people. im here because i like it. im here for size acceptance, and funny jokes. im here for serious conversations, topics that inspire thoughts and emotions from me.


----------



## PeacefulGem

Jane said:


> I'm SO CONFUSED!!!




You aren't the only one. I just started reading this thread and have made it this far and I am still confused!


----------



## prickly

Amatrix said:


> so, it took me close to 3 days to read everyones posts here.



.....you might try my approach for getting through these very long threads..... just looking at the avatars to spot the pretty girls/guys (delete as appropriate, although bisexuality will mean it takes longer to "read" the thread).


----------



## PeacefulGem

NancyGirl74 said:


> How about bringing some popcorn? :happy:



Man... all of this talk about popcorn throughout this thread is getting me hungry! :eat2:


----------



## largenlovely

you are going to hell lol



prickly said:


> .....you might try my approach for getting through these very long threads..... just looking at the avatars to spot the pretty girls/guys (delete as appropriate, although bisexuality will mean it takes longer to "read" the thread).



View attachment satan.jpg


----------



## mergirl

Jane said:


> And just when everyone moves on, someone comes back in to stir the shit up again.


hey! its wasnt my fault i came late to the discussion!!! why shouldnt i be able to say what I think.. you fashist! stir stir stir... here have some jobby pie!
mer


----------



## mergirl

JoyJoy said:


> And another someone who JUST DOESN'T GET IT. :doh: Where's Worf when we need him?


i TOTALLY get it! i'm just not a dramarama queen! if i heard some dick bitching about something they didnt like about me i would just tell them to fuck off. That would be the end of it. if you feel i dont get it.. then explain it to me.. but then i dont think you get me either ..so perhaps we shall have to agree to disagree!
xmer


----------



## panhype

Now send me your PMs, peeps.

The good thing now is: Excuses such as... 
- Relax! It's only the internet
- Relax! Those remarks were just "catty". Nothing serious lol
- WTF Shoot the messenger. That was all PRIVATE. I'm not accountable

...lost any credit (in case there had been any before)

Your words are YOUR words. And pointing out that isn't 'lynching', 'witch-hunting' etc. It's just getting the meaning of your words.

Send me your PMs now


----------



## LillyBBBW

*takes out her spoon*

One of the perps would very likely receive a hero's welcome were she to return to the BHM board. From their POV it may be seen that the PMs were certainly catty but merely a matter of opinion. It would surprise me if that opinion weren't quietly shared by at least a few people on that board which consequenlty they belong on too. Is it cool? No. A lot of people were deeply hurt by this and it has shattered our community. I feel it is more than appropriate for people to be able to come together as a community and support each other. However if I were not consistently taking my medication as prescribed I would point out that some of the sentiments expressed in this thread are a violation of the rules against personal attacks, followed by "IMO" of course.

Before you bitch slap me into next year please hear me out. I'm beginning to wonder if this thing will ever die down so that we can all get back to our lives. There is a great area for the potential for constant dissent about this. Somebody is always going feel compelled to rise up and say 'this is wrong,' 'no, this is right' and keep this going on in the forefront of our minds every day, all under watchful eyes. As long as we do this we give a whole lot of energy and attention to something that is beneath us and undeserving. I'm not saying this thread should never have happened, I'm glad it did. I'm just wondering if maybe there comes a time for closure.


----------



## Jane

mergirl said:


> hey! its wasnt my fault i came late to the discussion!!! why shouldnt i be able to say what I think.. you fashist! stir stir stir... here have some jobby pie!
> mer



I have to apologize to you. I thought you had posted before, waited, and come back, and you hadn't.

Sorry I jumped to conclusions without checking it out. It was thoughtless of me.


----------



## mergirl

Jane said:


> I have to apologize to you. I thought you had posted before, waited, and come back, and you hadn't.
> 
> Sorry I jumped to conclusions without checking it out. It was thoughtless of me.


Thats ok.. give me a cuddle and a piece of your jobby pie and i'll forgive you!!
mwah..


----------



## mergirl

mergirl said:


> Thats ok.. give me a cuddle and a piece of your jobby pie and i'll forgive you!!
> mwah..


erm.. i just realised that sounds really rude and i didnt mean it!! lmao
i accept your apology.. no strings attached!! lmao,, 
and thank you.
xmer


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

You resigned? I'm sorry to hear that. You were a very good and fair mod. 




missaf said:


> Lilly, I agree with you completely. That undercurrent that you're referring to is part of the reason I resigned as moderator. When people are drawn to destructive and charismatic personalities, it's hard to get anything productive done.


----------



## JoyJoy

JoyJoy said:


> Again, for the "nth" time..it's NOT about the fact they were talking shit. That's in no way shocking. We all know it happens everywhere, all the time, and is undoubtedly happening in private somewhere right this second...big whoop.
> 
> If you can't figure out why people are upset, then you haven't really read the thread, or you just don't get it and never will.





mergirl said:


> och.. you know what..ive read those stupid pm's and they seem to me like a silly catty convo. those in glass houses and all that.. if any of you can seriously say you have never said anything bitchy about anyone EVER then you have the right to jump on the condeming bandwagon.
> i know that ive pm'd my friends and bitched about how minging kate moss is and how you could play xylophone on her ribs... i guess though if that got posted accidentally on a "thin acceptance" site i may well stir up a lot of deeply rooted emotions..from peeps that have been struggling with thin acceptance issues for thier whole lives.
> I believe in freedom of speach.. but that comes at a price ..and sometimes your not going to like what you hear..
> do i think what they said was silly? yessum..
> but they were just commenting on something particular that they dont find attractive..
> albeit in a kinna bitchy way..
> but i think you should all lay your pitchforks down.. cause a monster is being created where there is none,, and i'm sure those concerned are well driven out of town...
> i hope not though..cause i feel the road to acceptance is forgiveness,,(trite though It may sound)..
> you need to face problems like this and try to understand the reaoning behind it all..
> anyway.. i dont even know these people.. and my flaming torch is on holiday.. so i shall go to bed and dream of cankles (or whatever you kids are calling them these days).
> peace xxmer





mergirl said:


> i TOTALLY get it! i'm just not a dramarama queen! if i heard some dick bitching about something they didnt like about me i would just tell them to fuck off. That would be the end of it. if you feel i dont get it.. then explain it to me.. but then i dont think you get me either ..so perhaps we shall have to agree to disagree!
> xmer


 I'm really not trying to pick a fight with you, and didn't call you a "dramarama queen" (or anything else, for that matter). I don't even know you. But, based on what you've posted, you really don't seem to get why people are upset....and you're not the only one. Put simply, it's about betrayed trust on several levels...not just something as common as trash-talk. If you need further explanation, it's all in the thread, if read carefully.


----------



## mergirl

JoyJoy said:


> I'm really not trying to pick a fight with you, and didn't call you a "dramarama queen" (or anything else, for that matter). I don't even know you. But, based on what you've posted, you really don't seem to get why people are upset....and you're not the only one. Put simply, it's about betrayed trust on several levels...not just something as common as trash-talk. If you need further explanation, it's all in the thread, if read carefully.


i didnt think you were trying to pick a fight with me.. and i do understand its not just what was said but that they had been members for a while and people were shocked.. but members of any group are going to have differing oppinions and be prone to bitchy chatter..
hmm.. i guess if i knew these people or if i was the one being bitched about then i might be a bit pissed off.. hmm i really cant be bothered reading through this post again.. its not even interesting! lmao.. but peace 2 you.. i kinna get it but i feel its not life or death and just bitch and bitchier..
xmer


----------



## imfree

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> You know...........snipped.............
> 
> I know this was a harsh lesson...one you didn't see coming. The hardest lessons in life seem to be the ones that make us better people.



AMEN, Green Eyed Fairy...
The hardest (and most painful) lessons in life are the
ones that make us better people. It's almost as if we
forget unless it hurts so much that we can't forget.


----------



## fatchicksrockuk

mergirl said:


> i didnt think you were trying to pick a fight with me.. and i do understand its not just what was said but that they had been members for a while and people were shocked.. but members of any group are going to have differing oppinions and be prone to bitchy chatter..
> hmm.. i guess if i knew these people or if i was the one being bitched about then i might be a bit pissed off.. hmm i really cant be bothered reading through this post again.. its not even interesting! lmao.. but peace 2 you.. i kinna get it but i feel its not life or death and just bitch and bitchier..
> xmer



It's not the fact they were simply being bitchy, it's the fact they were attacking this community and specific people within it, about the precise physical characteristics that brings people here. It's like going to a site for say, short people, and making fun of them for being short. It's not bitchy, it's unacceptable and outright mean. If it had been hair, fashion, whatever, it would be different, but people come here as a safe place away from fat hate, and these people brought that here and rubbed it in their faces.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

mergirl said:


> i TOTALLY get it! i'm just not a dramarama queen! if i heard some dick bitching about something they didnt like about me i would just tell them to fuck off. That would be the end of it. if you feel i dont get it.. then explain it to me.. but then i dont think you get me either ..so perhaps we shall have to agree to disagree!
> xmer



A. I thought this thread WAS telling them to fuck off.....

B. Just because YOU would handle something YOUR way, why do you come into a thread and condemn others for choosing not to do it YOUR way? Are you implying that YOUR way is the only correct/right way to do things?

C. Your post seemed to hold a lot more drama than many of the other posts I have read in this thread. You seemed quite upset.....


D. If this didn't bother you, if you're so cool with uber thick skin, why are you in this thread?

E. Your whole post sounded like "bitching" to me - oh yeah, if you do it YOUR way then it's correct :doh:

F. I gotcha alright.


----------



## imfree

WOW!!!, I just got caught up on the last 2/3rds of
this thread. I missed the Battle of Dimmergeddon!
Blessed are the peace makers.
All people are beautiful.:smitten:
Use PM's carefully.


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

*curb stomps this thread*


----------



## mergirl

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> A. I thought this thread WAS telling them to fuck off.....
> 
> B. Just because YOU would handle something YOUR way, why do you come into a thread and condemn others for choosing not to do it YOUR way? Are you implying that YOUR way is the only correct/right way to do things?
> 
> C. Your post seemed to hold a lot more drama than many of the other posts I have read in this thread. You seemed quite upset.....
> 
> 
> D. If this didn't bother you, if you're so cool with uber thick skin, why are you in this thread?
> 
> E. Your whole post sounded like "bitching" to me - oh yeah, if you do it YOUR way then it's correct :doh:
> 
> F. I gotcha alright.


A. no..it was a multicoloured post with people of differing oppinions.. erm i actually got a few rep point for my post here.

B.lmao are you for real? is there a hidden camera somewhere? i wasnt condeming anyone for feeling anything.. just voicing my oppinion, which seems to frighten a lot of people here..

c.no i wasnt upset..

d. i dont have uber thick skin ..i posted here because i had something to say and i'm entitled to my oppinion.. isnt that the POINT of forums?

e.thats not bitching, its obstanance.. bitching would be if i said you were stupid not if i said I wasnt!

f.lmao.. no you dont! but you are good at writing lists..you should do that for a job!

xxmer


----------



## mergirl

fatchicksrockuk said:


> It's not the fact they were simply being bitchy, it's the fact they were attacking this community and specific people within it, about the precise physical characteristics that brings people here. It's like going to a site for say, short people, and making fun of them for being short. It's not bitchy, it's unacceptable and outright mean. If it had been hair, fashion, whatever, it would be different, but people come here as a safe place away from fat hate, and these people brought that here and rubbed it in their faces.


well to be fair i dont think either of the women MENT to rub it in thier faces.. they just got caught out..
but then that is thier oppinion..!! it was a shared oppinion. and it was ment to be private and not intended to hurt anyone!
is it going to end up like 1984 with the thought police?
not everyone here likes every fat attribute of every fat person, just because its a size acceptance site..
which is a shame.. but i dont think people should be punished for having likes and dislikes!
of course ..if someone were to publicly say nasty things about people here and intentionally upset them then of course they should be banished!
on this occassion.. it wasnt ment to hurt anyone.. and as i said and still think and there will be no changing my mind, was just bitchyness.. behind back bitchyness (ooh illiteration) that got found out!

xmer


----------



## Sugar

Slightly off topic...I think this thread has helped me self diagnose some OCD traits I have.

What I wouldn't give to correct some spelling up in here.

I'm not the best speller to come down the pike but for the love of ham. :doh:


----------



## Tina

mergirl said:


> well to be fair i dont think either of the women MENT to rub it in thier faces.. they just got caught out..
> but then that is thier oppinion..!! it was a shared oppinion. and it was ment to be private and not intended to hurt anyone!
> is it going to end up like 1984 with the thought police?
> not everyone here likes every fat attribute of every fat person, just because its a size acceptance site..
> which is a shame.. but i dont think people should be punished for having likes and dislikes!
> of course ..if someone were to publicly say nasty things about people here and intentionally upset them then of course they should be banished!
> on this occassion.. it wasnt ment to hurt anyone.. and as i said and still think and there will be no changing my mind, was just bitchyness.. behind back bitchyness (ooh illiteration) that got found out!
> 
> xmer



Everyone is allowed their opinion, even you. But given that your time here has been short, and you really do not seem to get why people are upset, even though you say you do, why not give it a rest instead of inflaming things? [/mod]


----------



## mergirl

Tina said:


> Everyone is allowed their opinion, even you. But given that your time here has been short, and you really do not seem to get why people are upset, even though you say you do, why not give it a rest instead of inflaming things? [/mod]


even me? lmao .. i really didnt mean to inflame things..i was just contributing my thoughts..
maby it was a cunning plan... get people pissed off with me and they will be distracted from the other stuff! muwahaha..
no it wasnt..
i'm sorry if i offended anyone.. really.. 
when i backchat people i am only ever joking,,, but i have a very dry sense of humour which can take some getting used to..and i guess because i am new.. (to the forums not to chat..which i was on over 6 years ago) it will take people a while to lurrrve me! lol..
ok.. i promise to spread only love and light from now on around these forums..(until you have forgotten i upset you all then i shall become all invoking again!! hehe)..

i have thought about it.. and i do get it.. i understand why people are upset.. i just wanted to look at both sides..

xxmer

p.s oh! and lucky if you are talking about MY spelling.. seriously... i am the worst speller in the world!!! please spellcheck me! lol


----------



## GWARrior

so... no bewbz?


----------



## saucywench

Lucky said:


> Slightly off topic...I think this thread has helped me self diagnose some OCD traits I have.
> 
> What I wouldn't give to correct some spelling up in here.
> 
> I'm not the best speller to come down the pike but for the love of ham. :doh:


Illiteration. That one's priceless.


----------



## mergirl

saucywench said:


> Illiteration. That one's priceless.


yeah.. i think that was a case of typing too fast though.. lmao..
i think its also totally priceless to bully someone for bad spelling when they are dyslexic!
especially in a post about bullying!
it is funny though.. i can take it on the chin..like illiterate..!?
i get it.

xmer


----------



## Jane

mergirl said:


> yeah.. i think that was a case of typing too fast though.. lmao..
> i think its also totally priceless to bully someone for bad spelling when they are dyslexic!
> especially in a post about bullying!
> it is funny though.. i can take it on the chin..like illiterate..!?
> i get it.
> 
> xmer



There is a spellcheck feature...and no one was bullying you.
Dyslexia is not an excuse, neither is a six year old "not taking her school career seriously."


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Jane said:


> There is a spellcheck feature...and no one was bullying you.
> Dyslexia is not an excuse, neither is a six year old "not taking her school career seriously."




There is no spell check anymore. At least I don't see one. And as a Dyslexic - it can make a difference. It's not an excuse just a disability.


----------



## Amatrix

prickly said:


> .....you might try my approach for getting through these very long threads..... just looking at the avatars to spot the pretty girls/guys (delete as appropriate, although bisexuality will mean it takes longer to "read" the thread).



lol, then again some of us love the bisexuals...
:happy:


----------



## Mishty

GWARrior said:


> so... no bewbz?



No bewbz....


----------



## Famouslastwords

I'd just like to point out that _alliteration_ has nothing to do with illiterate.

alliteration:

Noun
The repetition of the same sounds or of the same kinds of sounds at the beginning of words or in stressed syllables, as in "on scrolls of silver snowy sentences" (Hart Crane). Modern alliteration is predominantly consonantal; certain literary traditions, such as Old English verse, also alliterate using vowel sounds.
Etymology


----------



## Tina

mergirl said:


> even me? lmao .. i really didnt mean to inflame things..i was just contributing my thoughts..
> maby it was a cunning plan... get people pissed off with me and they will be distracted from the other stuff! muwahaha..
> no it wasnt..
> i'm sorry if i offended anyone.. really..
> when i backchat people i am only ever joking,,, but i have a very dry sense of humour which can take some getting used to..and i guess because i am new.. (to the forums not to chat..which i was on over 6 years ago) it will take people a while to lurrrve me! lol..
> ok.. i promise to spread only love and light from now on around these forums..(until you have forgotten i upset you all then i shall become all invoking again!! hehe)..
> 
> i have thought about it.. and i do get it.. i understand why people are upset.. i just wanted to look at both sides..
> 
> xxmer
> 
> p.s oh! and lucky if you are talking about MY spelling.. seriously... i am the worst speller in the world!!! please spellcheck me! lol



Ha!! Well, I didn't mean for the "even you" to come out the way it did. 

Thanks, mer, I appreciate you understanding.


----------



## LisaInNC

Famouslastwords said:


> I'd just like to point out that _alliteration_ has nothing to do with illiterate.
> 
> alliteration:
> 
> Noun
> The repetition of the same sounds or of the same kinds of sounds at the beginning of words or in stressed syllables, as in "on scrolls of silver snowy sentences" (Hart Crane). Modern alliteration is predominantly consonantal; certain literary traditions, such as Old English verse, also alliterate using vowel sounds.
> Etymology



People who use big words make me moist. :eat2:


----------



## Famouslastwords

Hey baby, how YOU doing?


----------



## mergirl

Famouslastwords said:


> I'd just like to point out that _alliteration_ has nothing to do with illiterate.
> 
> alliteration:
> 
> Noun
> The repetition of the same sounds or of the same kinds of sounds at the beginning of words or in stressed syllables, as in "on scrolls of silver snowy sentences" (Hart Crane). Modern alliteration is predominantly consonantal; certain literary traditions, such as Old English verse, also alliterate using vowel sounds.
> Etymology


no ..i know.. but thats why it was funny..in a post about not being able to spell! lol


----------



## Amatrix

cupcakes and red lobster commercials make me wet...


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

Amatrix said:


> cupcakes and red lobster commercials make me wet...



GIVE ME BISCUITS NOW.

sopping .. wet .. biscuits.

... 

I need a towel.


----------



## Famouslastwords

omg those biscuits.


----------



## Amatrix

BothGunsBlazing said:


> GIVE ME BISCUITS NOW.
> 
> sopping .. wet .. biscuits.
> 
> ...
> 
> I need a towel.



oh yes... and BGBs posts... always damp.

lolz


----------



## Famouslastwords

BGB makes ALL the ladies moist.


----------



## mergirl

Jane said:


> There is a spellcheck feature...and no one was bullying you.
> Dyslexia is not an excuse, neither is a six year old "not taking her school career seriously."


i didnt think you were bullying me! i do think though that dyslexia is a pretty good excuse for not being able to spell things so well.. i dont know what you ment by the 6 year old not taking thier studies seriously analogy!? well if its what i think you ment then its not really on.. 
anyway.. i am what i am.. so really, no offence taken!
i am getting better at not seeing words not higgldy piggldy since chatting to people more online and from studying my psychology degree for the past 4 years.. it takes work though..
xmer


----------



## Amatrix

Famouslastwords said:


> BGB makes ALL the ladies moist.



apparently...*jumps on the band wagon...*

i can draw pretty neat... this kid needs some signs, like banners...


----------



## Famouslastwords

BGB- Making all the ladies moist since 1984


----------



## mergirl

Tina said:


> Ha!! Well, I didn't mean for the "even you" to come out the way it did.
> 
> Thanks, mer, I appreciate you understanding.


muwahahahaaha.. yes.. it did kinna come out like.. "even a MONSTER like you"!! hahaha..
ok i need to show more of my soft and fluffy side for a while.. 
but seriously you might have to live in scotland for a wee while to get the slighty sarcastic dry humour.. lowest form of wit and all that i know! lol.. we are not well trained over here! lol
xxmer


----------



## Jane

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> There is no spell check anymore. At least I don't see one. And as a Dyslexic - it can make a difference. It's not an excuse just a disability.



Sandie...I used a line from Uncle Buck about a six year old taking her school career "seriously." If that isn't a joke I don't know what is (albeit you may not have considered it funny).







I don't use "quick reply" and when I use the quote feature or reply, I find this in the upper right hand corner of the the toolbar.


----------



## ThatFatGirl

Spellcheck was not fully functioning over the last several days at least not for everyone. It is back with a new format as of yesterday (at least for me).


----------



## largenlovely

I love everybody here ...ok almost everybody lol, but i think this thread might be getting a bit *too* nasty. (I'm probably WAY late in saying that huh? lol) I know we're all upset over what happened, and it's hard to understand an opinion that differs from our own concerning this subject (for me too) and it's easy to get angry and say things in the heat of the moment, i've done that as well in my time...but let's not get off topic. 

dyslexia is very real and some people have a harder time than others when making posts...i think this might be getting too personal and someone might become hurt concerning a subject that shouldn't even be a part of this thread.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

I'l be a somminabitch!! It is there. DUH. Nevermind.:doh:




Jane said:


> Sandie...I used a line from Uncle Buck about a six year old taking her school career "seriously." If that isn't a joke I don't know what is (albeit you may not have considered it funny).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't use "quick reply" and when I use the quote feature or reply, I find this in the upper right hand corner of the the toolbar.


----------



## Waxwing

largenlovely said:


> I love everybody here ...ok almost everybody lol, but i think this thread might be getting a bit *too* nasty. (I'm probably WAY late in saying that huh? lol) I know we're all upset over what happened, and it's hard to understand an opinion that differs from our own concerning this subject (for me too) and it's easy to get angry and say things in the heat of the moment, i've done that as well in my time...but let's not get off topic.
> .



This times 1000. It's getting increasingly bitter and snarky.


----------



## Famouslastwords

The only thing I can do to ease the tension in here is offer everybody a drink....


----------



## mossystate

When attention is diverted, the guilty feel much glee.


----------



## Jane

largenlovely said:


> I love everybody here ...ok almost everybody lol, but i think this thread might be getting a bit *too* nasty. (I'm probably WAY late in saying that huh? lol) I know we're all upset over what happened, and it's hard to understand an opinion that differs from our own concerning this subject (for me too) and it's easy to get angry and say things in the heat of the moment, i've done that as well in my time...but let's not get off topic.
> 
> dyslexia is very real and some people have a harder time than others when making posts...i think this might be getting too personal and someone might become hurt concerning a subject that shouldn't even be a part of this thread.



This thread was getting "too nasty" several days ago, but everyone had to have their say.

Now, if one cannot grasp the absurdity comparison I made between dyslexia/spelling and a six year old taking a "school career" seriously, then we have much farther to go than I thought.


----------



## largenlovely

lol that is awesome



Famouslastwords said:


> The only thing I can do to ease the tension in here is offer everybody a drink....


----------



## Ernest Nagel

Loves dubh and BHMS
Did cause no little distress.
Whether loathsome portrayal
Or slimy betrayal
Their sins should be now laid to rest.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Souls much worse than misbegotten,
Their venom truly rotten. 
Why apologize 
When your life is all lies?
Not forgiven, best forgotten.


----------



## Waxwing

Jane said:


> This thread was getting "too nasty" several days ago, but everyone had to have their say.
> 
> Now, if one cannot grasp the absurdity comparison I made between dyslexia/spelling and a six year old taking a "school career" seriously, then we have much farther to go than I thought.



I don't think that was directed at that comment, was it? I actually thought the spelling talk was a pleasant respite from the rest.


----------



## Jane

Waxwing said:


> I don't think that was directed at that comment, was it? I actually thought the spelling talk was a pleasant respite from the rest.



I could be taking the remark too personally, but I really don't think so. Where else would the defensive stance have originated?


----------



## TraciJo67

mossystate said:


> When attention is diverted, the guilty feel much glee.



Loves .... leave. Really, it's as simple as that.

You may still have friends here; I don't know, nor do I care. Your friends didn't make the comments that are circulating around cyberspace -- *you* did. They certainly do have a right to their opinions, just as I do mine.

I can't force you to leave. It's not really even my place to suggest that you do so. But I can say ... you have ZERO credibility here now. Whether you think that is fair or not ... whether you continue focusing on the perceived injustice of having your PM chat transcript forwarded ... whether you feel that it's appropriate to take potshots under the guise of 'explaining' yourself in other threads ... the fact remains that every single word you utter is now going to be under the most intense of scrutiny. You will not be trusted. Nothing you say will be taken at face value. People will continue to snark at you, for as long as you continue posting here. That can't be a pleasant thing to face. It can't feel good, reading what is written here. It's not going to go away. 

We all talk trash. I've readily admitted that I have done so. However, there are two basic differences (not that it makes them somehow better ... we're talking context here, not morality):

1). There is no underlying loathing and hatred of the fat female figure on the part of most of us (and I'm assuming that you've given men a pass, since at least one of you is an FFA). Since this site is dedicated in large part to the admiration of the fat female form, your brand of prejudice is most unwelcome here.

2). What the rest of us have said about other people isn't currently making its round via the PM network.

I'm assuming that if there were no further posts from either of you, this thread would eventually just shrivel up and die. One could hope, anyway.


----------



## bigsexy920

Showers - oceans - and rain make me wet.



Amatrix said:


> cupcakes and red lobster commercials make me wet...


----------



## Waxwing

Jane said:


> I could be taking the remark too personally, but I really don't think so. Where else would the defensive stance have originated?



Aaaand I can't read. Sorry.


----------



## Waxwing

TraciJo67 said:


> Loves .... leave. Really, it's as simple as that.
> 
> You may still have friends here; I don't know, nor do I care. Your friends didn't make the comments that are circulating around cyberspace -- *you* did. They certainly do have a right to their opinions, just as I do mine.
> 
> I can't force you to leave. It's not really even my place to suggest that you do so. But I can say ... you have ZERO credibility here now. Whether you think that is fair or not ... whether you continue focusing on the perceived injustice of having your PM chat transcript forwarded ... whether you feel that it's appropriate to take potshots under the guise of 'explaining' yourself in other threads ... the fact remains that every single word you utter is now going to be under the most intense of scrutiny. You will not be trusted. Nothing you say will be taken at face value. People will continue to snark at you, for as long as you continue posting here. That can't be a pleasant thing to face. It can't feel good, reading what is written here. It's not going to go away.
> 
> We all talk trash. I've readily admitted that I have done so. However, there are two basic differences (not that it makes them somehow better ... we're talking context here, not morality):
> 
> 1). There is no underlying loathing and hatred of the fat female figure on the part of most of us (and I'm assuming that you've given men a pass, since at least one of you is an FFA). Since this site is dedicated in large part to the admiration of the fat female form, your brand of prejudice is most unwelcome here.
> 
> 2). What the rest of us have said about other people isn't currently making its round via the PM network.
> 
> I'm assuming that if there were no further posts from either of you, this thread would eventually just shrivel up and die. One could hope, anyway.



You know, neither of them has posted in pages and yet we still continue! I wonder why? Maybe because people are starting to enjoy this. 

As you said, both sides have their friends. People will stay or go if they feel like it, and break or retain friendships if they choose. Not if we tell them to. That crosses the line between understandable indignation into schoolyard bully.


----------



## largenlovely

Someone else mentioned dyslexia a day or so ago in this thread (which was eventually deleted) and to see it come up again, well i worried that people might have their feelings hurt on the issue...even through plain old misunderstanding someone. I admit to not getting the joke myself. Though i also do know that I've never seen you be intentionally mean. 

I'm also a bit sensitive on the topic i admit. I don't have dyslexia but have family members who did. It's a sensitive topic for some and it might cause someone to become upset, even if it wasn't intended. 

I wasn't trying to anger your by any means ...sorry if it came out that way  




Jane said:


> I could be taking the remark too personally, but I really don't think so. Where else would the defensive stance have originated?


----------



## TraciJo67

Waxwing said:


> You know, neither of them has posted in pages and yet we still continue! I wonder why? Maybe because people are starting to enjoy this just a little too much.
> 
> As you said, both sides have their supporters. People will stay or go if they feel like it, not if we tell them to. That crosses the line between understandable indignation into schoolyard bully.



Understandable that you feel that way, but it's not really my intention. I'm not *telling* them to go. I am suggesting it, because their continued presence here (and by that, I'm referring to LoveBHMS' recent post elsewhere, in which she refers to this thread & to recent events) is causing a lot of problems -- not the least of which is, the problems it must be causing for *them*. I hate this ugliness. You have no reason to believe that ... I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. I don't see it stopping. I see it going on and on and on, as long as one or both of them remain a presence here. Do you see it otherwise?


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Hey how about if WE all leave and let the Loves have this place. We can start a new fat-topia. One where all fat people are created equal and we all love each other and no one ever gets hurt or insulted.

Yeah - that's it!


----------



## Waxwing

TraciJo67 said:


> Understandable that you feel that way, but it's not really my intention. I'm not *telling* them to go. I am suggesting it, because their continued presence here (and by that, I'm referring to LoveBHMS' recent post elsewhere, in which she refers to this thread & to recent events) is causing a lot of problems -- not the least of which is, the problems it must be causing for *them*. I hate this ugliness. You have no reason to believe that ... I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. I don't see it stopping. I see it going on and on and on, as long as one or both of them remain a presence here. Do you see it otherwise?



I hate it too, of course. And honestly, I don't know if this will continue if they remain. You said yourself that there are people who have chosen already to forgive. Not every member of the board things that they should go die. So it will either die down or completely and permanently fracture the community. I happen to think that it will be the former. 

Those who have decided to end their friendships with the Loves will put them on ignore, will avoid interaction with them. If there are parts of the board in which they're still welcome, why shouldn't they feel free to post there?


----------



## saucywench

mergirl said:


> no ..i know.. but thats why it was funny..in a post about not being able to spell! lol


Precisely; that's why it was funny.  

It wasn't a personal attack, just an amusing observation of the wordplay.


----------



## Jane

Waxwing said:


> I hate it too, of course. And honestly, I don't know if this will continue if they remain. You said yourself that there are people who have chosen already to forgive. Not every member of the board things that they should go die. So it will either die down or completely and permanently fracture the community. I happen to think that it will be the former.
> 
> Those who have decided to end their friendships with the Loves will put them on ignore, will avoid interaction with them. If there are parts of the board in which they're still welcome, why shouldn't they feel free to post there?



Waxy, I think that would be great, but with the "NO WHINING" caveat.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Waxy, you know I love you sweetie. But the things LoveBHMs is posting in that thread on the FFA board are offensive and an insult (again) to all the women on Dimensions.

The infamous Vince was banned for less. IMO.





Waxwing said:


> I hate it too, of course. And honestly, I don't know if this will continue if they remain. You said yourself that there are people who have chosen already to forgive. Not every member of the board things that they should go die. So it will either die down or completely and permanently fracture the community. I happen to think that it will be the former.
> 
> Those who have decided to end their friendships with the Loves will put them on ignore, will avoid interaction with them. If there are parts of the board in which they're still welcome, why shouldn't they feel free to post there?


----------



## Jane

largenlovely said:


> Someone else mentioned dyslexia a day or so ago in this thread (which was eventually deleted) and to see it come up again, well i worried that people might have their feelings hurt on the issue...even through plain old misunderstanding someone.



Boy, I didn't see that or I certainly would have understood.

Did I mention I used to be a special ed teacher?


----------



## largenlovely

you must have the patience of a saint lol

My brother had dyslexia...he died at 16, but before he passed away, i would try to help him with his school work. I would get so angry at him for not understanding. I was young myself then and didn't understand anything about what he was going through. Makes me feel lots of guilty things. 



Jane said:


> Boy, I didn't see that or I certainly would have understood.
> 
> Did I mention I used to be a special ed teacher?


----------



## TraciJo67

Waxwing said:


> I hate it too, of course. And honestly, I don't know if this will continue if they remain. You said yourself that there are people who have chosen already to forgive. Not every member of the board things that they should go die. So it will either die down or completely and permanently fracture the community. I happen to think that it will be the former.
> 
> Those who have decided to end their friendships with the Loves will put them on ignore, will avoid interaction with them. If there are parts of the board in which they're still welcome, why shouldn't they feel free to post there?




I hope that you're right. 

I've been a member here for 3 years, and in that span of time have seen a lot of controversial issues crop up here 'n there. Nothing has inspired the anger and vitriol that I am seeing now. I understand it, to the extent that I am capable, keeping in mind that before all this happened I liked both of the Loves very much. I wish that I hadn't seen the chat transcript. I know that a lot of people say, it's best to know what kind of people you are dealing with ... but for me, fat prejudice is no better or worse than any other kind of ignorance. I hate bigotry, but I see examples of it nearly every day in people who absolutely have no understanding that they are, in fact, bigots. For my own sanity, I've made my peace with it to the extent that I'm capable ... and if the behavior isn't especially egregious (if it's rooted more in ignorance than true malice), I usually overlook it. I have to maintain working relationships and certain acquaintanceships, for various reasons that aren't important here.

The fact remains that the transcript did land in my inbox, and I did read it. I can't unring that bell. It has colored my perception of the two Loves ... which until now was very positive. I can't imagine a scenario in which they'd continue to be welcome here, at least not by most people. 

Some things are overlooked or at least tolerated here. But given the nature of this particular site, fat bigotry isn't one of them.


----------



## Jane

largenlovely said:


> you must have the patience of a saint lol
> 
> My brother had dyslexia...he died at 16, but before he passed away, i would try to help him with his school work. I would get so angry at him for not understanding. I was young myself then and didn't understand anything about what he was going through. Makes me feel lots of guilty things.



Nah, I only made it a year, and dreamed about it for twenty years after.


----------



## GWARrior

jebus. 40 effin pages and no tits.

i want my money back.


----------



## JoyJoy

GWARrior said:


> jebus. 40 effin pages and no tits.
> 
> i want my money back.



( o )( o )


----------



## Famouslastwords

I honestly don't know what to say at this point. So.. here's another picture. 

View attachment bofaasshat.jpg


----------



## stan_der_man

GWARrior said:


> jebus. 40 effin pages and no tits.
> 
> i want my money back.





JoyJoy said:


> ( o )( o )




Ha! If you ASCII you shall receive!

Let that be a lesson to you GWARrior... You always get what you pay for, if not less...


----------



## Waxwing




----------



## GWARrior

ouch! I bet his face is fucked up now!


----------



## Paquito

:bow:


----------



## Waxwing




----------



## stan_der_man

Waxwing said:


>



With no rest area in sight...



GWARrior said:


> ouch! I bet his face is fucked up now!



... and still no tits!


----------



## Famouslastwords

Theres this thing in the gamer forum I go to... whenever drama is over in a thread it turns into a food and pictures/owl thread. 

View attachment 1171162248721.jpg


View attachment pointandlaugh.gif


----------



## largenlovely

EEEK!!! I dated that guy once lol



Famouslastwords said:


> Theres this thing in the gamer forum I go to... whenever drama is over in a thread it turns into a food and pictures/owl thread.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

GWARrior said:


> jebus. 40 effin pages and no tits.
> 
> i want my money back.



Maybe we should start a pool on what day it'll hit 50 pages? I dibs May 12 @ 4:32 PM CDT! That's _only_ 200 posts away. I know we can do it if we all cry together!

Frankly though this thread is rollin' in bewbz, present company included.


----------



## Famouslastwords

largenlovely said:


> EEEK!!! I dated that guy once lol



Really now? 

View attachment owl1.jpg


----------



## largenlovely

i was referring to the picture but it didn't go through in the post hehe



Famouslastwords said:


> Really now?


----------



## JoyJoy

LoveBHMS said:


> The time is long long overdue for a discussion about gender roles at Dims and in the SA community at large. I can't imagine the hullabaloo that would result if a BHM had started a lounge topic wherein males could post pictures of "HOT GIRLS."
> 
> There would be a hue and cry about how the women don't come *here to Dimensions* to see pictures of thin women.



Im not posting this in the BHM forum simply because Im not a common guest there, and dont want to infringe just for this purpose, and I'm sure anyone who wishes to read it can make the jump. I know this is adding fuel to the flame, but I can't leave it unsaid, since you choose to remain here. You will quickly be added to my ignore list once this is addressed, though. 

These comments from another thread there are a true sign of how deeply mired you are in your own self-justification and perceived righteousness in remaining here. Your indignance and arrogance blind you to whats right in front of you. 

*From the FAQ (as has been quoted before):

"Is Dimensions just for men?*

Initially (as in 1983) it was. But almost since the beginning Dimensions has been a forum for both fat women and the people who find them attractive. For men, Dimensions is a place where they can talk and learn about their preference, and find lots of steamy fiction, pictures, bulletin boards, chat rooms, and plenty more. *For women, it's a place where THEY, and not their skinny sisters, are the stars. It's a place where they can learn about their admirers and to see the beauty and attractiveness in their bodies. "*(emphasis mine)


You came here to take part in a much smaller sub-forum of this site because you prefer large men. We all know what has taken place so theres no point in rehashing it, but your ensuing posts are so full of a misplaced sense of entitlement its disgusting. 

To address the Hot Guys picture threads that youve complained about several times: Im sure its not a stretch to say that the majority of men who come here are here because they like fat women. They get their treats through pictures all over the board. The FFA/BHM Board was created for an entirely different sub-group, whose interests may or may not fall outside those of the majority. Im also stating the obvious by saying that not all women, regardless of size, prefer larger men. If the thread with pics of thin men had been posted in the BHM forum, I could well understand your protest, but given that it was placed in a general area, for those who DO find pleasure in looking at the pictures placed there, you really dont have a leg to stand on. No, the men who come here arent here to look at pics of thin women. But the women who come here arent all here to look at pics of BHM. To my knowledge, no one has said Look, arent these guys so much hotter than the guys on the BHM board??? That thread isnt an insult to BHM (or it shouldnt be taken that way), its there for women whose preference is for men who look like those in the pictures (although some of us have a wider range of preferences than one type). It really is all about preference, and since youre here in pursuit of your very specific preference, it makes sense to seek gratification in the one specific and protected area for that preference and not expect the much larger remaining portion of the forum to follow suit. 



LoveBHMS said:


> This community sometimes has a sense of forced sweetness. When somebody posts pictures there is almost an imperative to say "OMG...UR so hot!" Interestingly, when we women dont' respond to a man's pictures, we get castigated. "I"m leaving you all suck nobody said i was hot." It's as if women are expected to be sweet even if we don't like a picture. If you visit the makeup or clothing board, virtually any posted picture will immediately be followed with fawning "Oh wow you're gorgeous!" whether or not the person even looks good by any reasonable standard. But we're supposed to behave that way b/c we're women.


 This is a perfect example of exactly what was displayed in the PMs that started all of this. For you to second-guess such statements as fawning, insinuating that theres no way the person could actually look good is arrogance at its ugliest. They may not look good by any reasonable standard of YOURS, but to assume that the only reason anyone would compliment a fat woman is because, as women, were just supposed to behave that way is ludicrous. 

To go furtherthe day that complimenting each other to help build each other up stops will be a sad day, indeed. We all need help feeling good about ourselves at some point in our lives, and if we can post pics in a place where we feel a kinship with others in order to find that boost, then we should all be glad of it. It all goes back to the FAQ quote above about fat women being the stars. Everyone should be able to feel like a star from time to time, and people like you who feel a need to belittle it can go to hell. 

 *"Is Dimensions just a social thing?*

It would seem that way, but it is much more. We've always viewed Dimensions as a size-activist place as well as a lifestyle place. While there is plenty of sexually oriented material, Dimensions is about size politics, *acceptance, and mutual respect as much as it is about celebrating the larger figure."*

SO MUCH about your presence here is now in contrast to this statement. Sure, there are lots of issues around here that should be addressed and perhaps changed. But you, who have shown so little respect for so many here, are the last one to be pointing them out and expecting us all to jump up to change them.


----------



## Famouslastwords

I caught what you were throwing Melissa.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Joy - 

THANK YOU!! I knew I couldn't do this but seeing as you could I applaud your assessment of what is going on here. Seems to me LoveBHMs is insulting all the fat women here over and over. Now if this is a place where we (the fat women) are supposed to feel safe, ttractive etc., I can't for the life of me understand WHY this one person is being allowed to continue to post insulting posts.

I don't want to hear from the Mods I know their position - I want to hear from Conrad.

What's the deal Conrad? Wasn't this place made for *US*????






JoyJoy said:


> Im not posting this in the BHM forum simply because Im not a common guest there, and dont want to infringe just for this purpose, and I'm sure anyone who wishes to read it can make the jump. I know this is adding fuel to the flame, but I can't leave it unsaid, since you choose to remain here. You will quickly be added to my ignore list once this is addressed, though.
> 
> These comments from another thread there are a true sign of how deeply mired you are in your own self-justification and perceived righteousness in remaining here. Your indignance and arrogance blind you to whats right in front of you.
> 
> *From the FAQ (as has been quoted before):
> 
> "Is Dimensions just for men?*
> 
> Initially (as in 1983) it was. But almost since the beginning Dimensions has been a forum for both fat women and the people who find them attractive. For men, Dimensions is a place where they can talk and learn about their preference, and find lots of steamy fiction, pictures, bulletin boards, chat rooms, and plenty more. *For women, it's a place where THEY, and not their skinny sisters, are the stars. It's a place where they can learn about their admirers and to see the beauty and attractiveness in their bodies. "*(emphasis mine)
> 
> 
> You came here to take part in a much smaller sub-forum of this site because you prefer large men. We all know what has taken place so theres no point in rehashing it, but your ensuing posts are so full of a misplaced sense of entitlement its disgusting.
> 
> To address the Hot Guys picture threads that youve complained about several times: Im sure its not a stretch to say that the majority of men who come here are here because they like fat women. They get their treats through pictures all over the board. The FFA/BHM Board was created for an entirely different sub-group, whose interests may or may not fall outside those of the majority. Im also stating the obvious by saying that not all women, regardless of size, prefer larger men. If the thread with pics of thin men had been posted in the BHM forum, I could well understand your protest, but given that it was placed in a general area, for those who DO find pleasure in looking at the pictures placed there, you really dont have a leg to stand on. No, the men who come here arent here to look at pics of thin women. But the women who come here arent all here to look at pics of BHM. To my knowledge, no one has said Look, arent these guys so much hotter than the guys on the BHM board??? That thread isnt an insult to BHM (or it shouldnt be taken that way), its there for women whose preference is for men who look like those in the pictures (although some of us have a wider range of preferences than one type). It really is all about preference, and since youre here in pursuit of your very specific preference, it makes sense to seek gratification in the one specific and protected area for that preference and not expect the much larger remaining portion of the forum to follow suit.
> 
> 
> This is a perfect example of exactly what was displayed in the PMs that started all of this. For you to second-guess such statements as fawning, insinuating that theres no way the person could actually look good is arrogance at its ugliest. They may not look good by any reasonable standard of YOURS, but to assume that the only reason anyone would compliment a fat woman is because, as women, were just supposed to behave that way is ludicrous.
> 
> To go furtherthe day that complimenting each other to help build each other up stops will be a sad day, indeed. We all need help feeling good about ourselves at some point in our lives, and if we can post pics in a place where we feel a kinship with others in order to find that boost, then we should all be glad of it. It all goes back to the FAQ quote above about fat women being the stars. Everyone should be able to feel like a star from time to time, and people like you who feel a need to belittle it can go to hell.
> 
> *"Is Dimensions just a social thing?*
> 
> It would seem that way, but it is much more. We've always viewed Dimensions as a size-activist place as well as a lifestyle place. While there is plenty of sexually oriented material, Dimensions is about size politics, *acceptance, and mutual respect as much as it is about celebrating the larger figure."*
> 
> SO MUCH about your presence here is now in contrast to this statement. Sure, there are lots of issues around here that should be addressed and perhaps changed. But you, who have shown so little respect for so many here, are the last one to be pointing them out and expecting us all to jump up to change them.


----------



## charlieversion2

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> What's the deal Conrad? Wasn't this place made for *US*????



:doh:

Ohh my, I think I just LOLed again. I <3 this place! Keep it up! "Your a winner!"


----------



## Jane

ChrisVersion2 said:


> :doh:
> 
> Ohh my, I think I just LOLed again. I <3 this place! Keep it up! "Your a winner!"



Let me ask you a question...if they lied to the other women on the board, and secretly bashed them behind their back, women they had met in person....

what makes you think that you are special and not subjected to the same treatment?


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

ChrisVersion2 said:


> :doh:
> 
> Ohh my, I think I just LOLed again. I <3 this place! Keep it up! "Your a winner!"



What the hell is your problem?


----------



## largenlovely

wiser words have never been spoken...

had to learn this one the hard way a few times



Jane said:


> Let me ask you a question...if they lied to the other women on the board, and secretly bashed them behind their back, women they had met in person....
> 
> what makes you think that you are special and not subjected to the same treatment?


----------



## Allie Cat

Before I say much more, I should probably point out that I didn't read past page 11. But from what I read up until that point, I'm rather disgusted with just about everyone here. Having not read the PM, I can't really say for sure that I know what's going on, but I think I got the gist of it.

But what a lot of people seem to have forgotten is that it was a PM. It's part of human nature to say stuff about people to other people. That doesn't make it right, but it does provide some explanation and even a bit of excuse. I don't like to jump on people, but from what I saw in the first eleven pages the only person who handled this with any maturity - besides the two victims of this backlash (yes that's right I said victims) - was Tooz. Other than that, the more I've read, the more respect I've lost for people who I used to find admirable.

I'm kind of rambling here, partly because I have this tendency to empathize with both sides in most disagreements, so I'm going to wrap it up here... I suppose I really ought to have read the whole thread, but I'd like to graduate some time this year. So, in closing... grow up, people. Sheesh.

Or Don Piano will send his kneecappers after you.


----------



## Santaclear

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> What's the deal Conrad? Wasn't this place made for *US*????



It's for both. That's why the BHM Board is there.

I'm sure LoveBHMs means well. :bow:

(OK, last sentence was sarcastic.)


----------



## Santaclear

Divals said:


> Having not read the PM, I can't really say for sure that I know what's going on, but I think I got the gist of it.



Read the pm. Maybe you'll understand why this had to come out, given what prolific posters they've been, particularly LoveBHMs.


----------



## Allie Cat

Santaclear said:


> Read the pm. You'll probably understand why this had to come out.



Mkay, where?


----------



## largenlovely

what is questionable here is whether or not they were just being catty or whether they were spewing anti-fat sentiment. I can understand being catty, most all of us have done it at one time or another. Making fun of cankles and someone's dress is absolutely catty. 

directing those of us who are too fat to wear socks to the WLS board, is anti fat ..i mean, how could you really take that any other way? This statement is against what this community stands for. If i'm too fat to wear socks and choose not to have WLS, then i should be able to feel free of condemnation for that decision...if not here, then where?


----------



## Aireman

OOOPS my bad! Sorry!


----------



## Santaclear

Aireman said:


> Ummm he's LoveBHM's boyfriend.



Oh! LOLville.


----------



## Allie Cat

Alrighty, having read the PM (Twice! Now that's diligence! [edit: got a third copy while I was typing this]) I'm somewhat more sympathetic to the views of 'The Opposition'... but despite the fact that what they said was horribly offensive, it was meant to be a private conversation. No matter how wrong their opinions are, they are entitled to them. If these things had been said in the public forum, that'd be one thing (that one thing being an attack, and oh god I use too many parentheses), but they were not.

Eh. I suppose I really ought to just stay out of it. I guess nobody's really in the right here. Except for me 'cause I'm egotistical like that. And Tooz (I'm not trying to suck up here).

And for the record... I think 'cankles' are sexy.

[second edit]I really don't know whose side to take anymore. On the one hand, their remarks were horribly offensive, especially in the context of a safe haven like Dims. On the other hand, their remarks were supposed to be private, and the burden of responsibility probably falls more on the person who made them public. Back to the first hand, they shouldn't have been saying those things in the first place. But back to the second, some of the other people in this thread have been saying nasty things too, and two wrongs don't make a right... but back to the first hand again, they specifically mentioned AnnMarie, who I've met in person and is a very nice, beautiful lady...

FDS, I'm going back to lurking at Hyde Park.[/edit]


----------



## largenlovely

which is why ya should've read through everything hon...they made them public, it was by accident, but still public nonetheless



Divals said:


> Alrighty, having read the PM (Twice! Now that's diligence! [edit: got a third copy while I was typing this]) I'm somewhat more sympathetic to the views of 'The Opposition'... but despite the fact that what they said was horribly offensive, it was meant to be a private conversation. No matter how wrong their opinions are, they are entitled to them. If these things had been said in the public forum, that'd be one thing (that one thing being an attack, and oh god I use too many parentheses), but they were not.
> 
> Eh. I suppose I really ought to just stay out of it. I guess nobody's really in the right here. Except for me 'cause I'm egotistical like that. And Tooz (I'm not trying to suck up here).
> 
> And for the record... I think 'cankles' are sexy.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Aireman said:


> Ummm he's LoveBHM's boyfriend.



No, Mary is his girlfriend. Loves is just a friend.


----------



## saucywench

Good luck on that emphasizing, Joy. You see how well it worked for me as far as getting my point across. I bolded and italiced the hell out of the most salient points, and there have been very many articulate and heartfelt posts from people who have tried to drive the point home (over and over and over and over again) what this is ultimately all about. Still, it's falling on a lot of deaf ears. It really makes me question just how far we can go in getting true understanding...if we can't even get it here in Dimensions. 


JoyJoy said:


> Im not posting this in the BHM forum simply because Im not a common guest there, and dont want to infringe just for this purpose, and I'm sure anyone who wishes to read it can make the jump. I know this is adding fuel to the flame, but I can't leave it unsaid, since you choose to remain here. You will quickly be added to my ignore list once this is addressed, though.
> 
> These comments from another thread there are a true sign of how deeply mired you are in your own self-justification and perceived righteousness in remaining here. Your indignance and arrogance blind you to whats right in front of you.
> 
> *From the FAQ (as has been quoted before):*
> 
> *"Is Dimensions just for men?*
> 
> Initially (as in 1983) it was. But almost since the beginning Dimensions has been a forum for both fat women and the people who find them attractive. For men, Dimensions is a place where they can talk and learn about their preference, and find lots of steamy fiction, pictures, bulletin boards, chat rooms, and plenty more. *For women, it's a place where THEY, and not their skinny sisters, are the stars. It's a place where they can learn about their admirers and to see the beauty and attractiveness in their bodies. "*(emphasis mine)
> 
> 
> You came here to take part in a much smaller sub-forum of this site because you prefer large men. We all know what has taken place so theres no point in rehashing it, but your ensuing posts are so full of a misplaced sense of entitlement its disgusting.
> 
> To address the Hot Guys picture threads that youve complained about several times: Im sure its not a stretch to say that the majority of men who come here are here because they like fat women. They get their treats through pictures all over the board. The FFA/BHM Board was created for an entirely different sub-group, whose interests may or may not fall outside those of the majority. Im also stating the obvious by saying that not all women, regardless of size, prefer larger men. If the thread with pics of thin men had been posted in the BHM forum, I could well understand your protest, but given that it was placed in a general area, for those who DO find pleasure in looking at the pictures placed there, you really dont have a leg to stand on. No, the men who come here arent here to look at pics of thin women. But the women who come here arent all here to look at pics of BHM. To my knowledge, no one has said Look, arent these guys so much hotter than the guys on the BHM board??? That thread isnt an insult to BHM (or it shouldnt be taken that way), its there for women whose preference is for men who look like those in the pictures (although some of us have a wider range of preferences than one type). It really is all about preference, and since youre here in pursuit of your very specific preference, it makes sense to seek gratification in the one specific and protected area for that preference and not expect the much larger remaining portion of the forum to follow suit.
> 
> 
> This is a perfect example of exactly what was displayed in the PMs that started all of this. For you to second-guess such statements as fawning, insinuating that theres no way the person could actually look good is arrogance at its ugliest. They may not look good by any reasonable standard of YOURS, but to assume that the only reason anyone would compliment a fat woman is because, as women, were just supposed to behave that way is ludicrous.
> 
> To go furtherthe day that complimenting each other to help build each other up stops will be a sad day, indeed. We all need help feeling good about ourselves at some point in our lives, and if we can post pics in a place where we feel a kinship with others in order to find that boost, then we should all be glad of it. It all goes back to the FAQ quote above about fat women being the stars. Everyone should be able to feel like a star from time to time, and people like you who feel a need to belittle it can go to hell.
> 
> *"Is Dimensions just a social thing?*
> 
> It would seem that way, but it is much more. We've always viewed Dimensions as a size-activist place as well as a lifestyle place. While there is plenty of sexually oriented material, Dimensions is about size politics, *acceptance, and mutual respect as much as it is about celebrating the larger figure."*
> 
> SO MUCH about your presence here is now in contrast to this statement. Sure, there are lots of issues around here that should be addressed and perhaps changed. But you, who have shown so little respect for so many here, are the last one to be pointing them out and expecting us all to jump up to change them.


----------



## ripley

LillyBBBW said:


> *takes out her spoon*
> 
> One of the perps would very likely receive a hero's welcome were she to return to the BHM board. From their POV it may be seen that the PMs were certainly catty but merely a matter of opinion. It would surprise me if that opinion weren't quietly shared by at least a few people on that board which consequenlty they belong on too. Is it cool? No. A lot of people were deeply hurt by this and it has shattered our community. I feel it is more than appropriate for people to be able to come together as a community and support each other. However if I were not consistently taking my medication as prescribed I would point out that some of the sentiments expressed in this thread are a violation of the rules against personal attacks, followed by "IMO" of course.
> 
> Before you bitch slap me into next year please hear me out. I'm beginning to wonder if this thing will ever die down so that we can all get back to our lives. There is a great area for the potential for constant dissent about this. Somebody is always going feel compelled to rise up and say 'this is wrong,' 'no, this is right' and keep this going on in the forefront of our minds every day, all under watchful eyes. As long as we do this we give a whole lot of energy and attention to something that is beneath us and undeserving. I'm not saying this thread should never have happened, I'm glad it did. I'm just wondering if maybe there comes a time for closure.



I think the problem is that it's a slow leak...as we can see from Divals above, new people are apparently receiving the PM every day...they are upset and want to talk about it...to them it IS new. 

Also, LoveBHMs seems to like adding fuel to the fire herself (she HAS returned to the BHM board, and they're all tickled pink). She seems to like to give us cause for fresh anger every day. If this is a "witch hunt" then she's the only witch I've ever known to pile up the wood around her own stake.


----------



## Famouslastwords

Aireman said:


> Ummm he's LoveBHM's boyfriend.



Hahahahahahahahaha 

View attachment orlyrach.jpg


----------



## Aireman

TOO LATE! My apologies! I tried editing my original post but was too slow for you _really_ quick posters. Indeed Mary is Chris's girl. Sorry!


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Santaclear said:


> It's for both. That's why the BHM Board is there.
> 
> I'm sure LoveBHMs means well. :bow:
> 
> (OK, last sentence was sarcastic.)



Well if this is Conrad's definition of what Dimensions is all about:

_*For men, Dimensions is a place where they can talk and learn about their preference, and find lots of steamy fiction, pictures, bulletin boards, chat rooms, and plenty more. For women, it's a place where THEY, and not their skinny sisters, are the stars. It's a place where they can learn about their admirers and to see the beauty and attractiveness in their bodies*_

Need I get technical?

I think there is a place here for the BHM/FFA board BUT - when a thin man shows up here saying how gross the fat men are but how sexy the fat women are we shall see how he is accepted by the fat men.

I'm just sayin'.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Well if this is Conrad's definition of what Dimensions is all about:
> 
> _*For men, Dimensions is a place where they can talk and learn about their preference, and find lots of steamy fiction, pictures, bulletin boards, chat rooms, and plenty more. For women, it's a place where THEY, and not their skinny sisters, are the stars. It's a place where they can learn about their admirers and to see the beauty and attractiveness in their bodies*_
> 
> Need I get technical?
> 
> I think there is a place here for the BHM/FFA board BUT - when a thin man shows up here saying how gross the fat men are but how sexy the fat women are we shall see how he is accepted by the fat men.
> 
> I'm just sayin'.



The same way they've always accepted the men who come here and say that.


----------



## Allie Cat

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I think there is a place here for the BHM/FFA board BUT - when a thin man shows up here saying how gross the fat men are but how sexy the fat women are we shall see how he is accepted by the fat men.



That generally seems to be the attitude toward fat doods around here, apart from the BHM/FFA board.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Divals said:


> That generally seems to be the attitude toward fat doods around here, apart from the BHM/FFA board.



Not by me! If this is going on I am completely out of the loop. I love big guys! I dated them and I married one. So color me clueless if this kind of thing is going on. But I agree it's totally out of line.


----------



## Aireman

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> I think there is a place here for the BHM/FFA board BUT - when a thin man shows up here saying how gross the fat men are but how sexy the fat women are we shall see how he is accepted by the fat men.
> 
> I'm just sayin'.



EH, we're used to it. Don't mean deep down inside we're not tweaked by it but guys get a lot of crap. We just beat the crap out of the offender. Very cathartic.


----------



## ripley

Bull.shit.


----------



## Angel

Divals,

Keep reading the rest of this thread. 

Perhaps the true colors will be more apparent.


Hint: read their posts in this thread.


I feel that I'm a very fair and very forgiving person. When someone _continues_ to ridicule and lash out though smiling or while laughing their ass off, they need to be shown the door.

And Sandie is right. 

If they are permitted to stay, Vince deserves a big apology and should be welcomed back with wide open arms!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> *
> 
> 
> I think there is a place here for the BHM/FFA board BUT - when a thin man shows up here saying how gross the fat men are but how sexy the fat women are we shall see how he is accepted by the fat men.*
> 
> I'm just sayin'.




There is someone talking about this very thing in another thread.....


----------



## Aireman

ripley said:


> Bull.shit.


Not even gonna ask!


----------



## Smite

Uno las es pia dias el la tueto como estas de donde eras.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Divals said:


> That generally seems to be the attitude toward fat doods around here, apart from the BHM/FFA board.




Funny.....I have posted on the BHM board often enough.....I like men of varying sizes. I don't go there much now because I don't really feel.....accepted down there.


----------



## ripley

Aireman said:


> Not even gonna ask!



A response to Dival's claims about big men.


----------



## Famouslastwords

penis.




See I can use white too.


----------



## Allie Cat

Well, I don't really pay a lot of attention... so maybe I've just seen the negative stuff. But I have seen stuff like that.

...but on the other hand... remember that Teddy Bear guy? :doh:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Famouslastwords said:


> penis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> See I can use white too.




I like how you think....now if you would only turn this into a picture thread.....


----------



## Aireman

Thanks Ripley!
And see I didn't ask!


----------



## MaryElizabethAntoinette

Now, being dragged into this silliness by my boyfriend, Chris, who was dragged into it by someone else. (And don't associate me with anything that he says, cuz we're complete opposites). I cannot believe some of the awful things people have said towards others. I'm not just talking about all of you who've attacked LuvDubh and LovsBHMs, I'm including them as well. 
I haven't read the "Private Message" that turned out to be apparently broadcast everywhere, and I personally don't want to read it. I get the jist that those two thin FFA's said some pretty harsh things--but for all of you to put this much effort in attacking them back... is just excessive. 

Being a thin FFA myself, I'm a little peeved by how all the BBW's started attacking us. Just because two people in our "category" said some awful things, certainly doesn't mean that we're all on their side and that we agree with them. And it also certainly doesn't mean that BHM's and FFA's aren't welcome on the boards. (Which I've heard many of you are saying... and I think is extremely harsh). After all, this is a place where people who normally don't fit in with society can go and find a community all of their own with people who they can relate to. And for BBW's to say that FFA's don't belong? Fat men have admirers just as fat women do, and I know many of the FFA's are BBW's themselves. So by BBW's attacking FFA's, you're also attacking your own kind. 

And of course being an FFA myself, I don't understand how women who are attracted to fat _men_ can go around and talk shit about fat _women_ as well. 
But although LuvDubh and LovesBHMs were offensive and insulting in what they said, and just because you BBW's are the majority here, doesn't mean you can viciously and cruelly continue to attack these girls (and most FFA's included) for a private message they didn't intend on being leaked. 


Now, in defense of my boyfriend. His posts usually tend to be rudely comical. And while I agree with his mocking of the excessive drama and arguing that has been going on, he didn't respond to it in the most mature way. Although he barely ever responds to anything in a mature way. 



I'm sure since I've actually spoken my mind and since I'm a thin FFA (the unacceptable minority, apparently), I'm going to be chastised for this post. But I'm not gonna keep silent after sitting here and reading all 41 pages of this nonsense. And sure, it's hypocritical for me to add to this thread. But come on people, shouldn't we all be on each other's side? We're *all* a minority in society. And this is place for us to get along and be loved by each other... not to attack each other.


----------



## Famouslastwords

I'm trying!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

I thought I read every post in this thread....am I mistaken? I missed the part where all the FFAs on the board were attacked :doh:


----------



## Smite

Thats because they were deleted to make it seem like the FFA's attacked with no recourse.


----------



## TCUBOB

<sticks head in, still sees fur....fat?....flying, quickly pulls out>


That's what SHE said!

<rimshot>

*Bob: Bringing tacky, tasteless jokes in the hope of easing tension since 1985.*​


----------



## MaryElizabethAntoinette

TCUBOB said:


> That's what SHE said!
> 
> <rimshot>



Hahahaha. That's what she said last night! Oh snap!


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

YOU HAVE GOT TO FUCKING KIDDING ME.

This thread cannot possibly still be going on? Fuck this whiny bullshit. 

Now people are just making shit up. I want to see where fat men are ever referred to as gross. 

Are BHMs emotional flowers on the edge of collapse?

APPARENTLY. and I suppose this would be that collapse.

seriously. what.the.fuck.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Smite said:


> Thats because they were deleted to make it seem like the FFA's attacked with no recourse.




So someone "attacked" FFAs in general?


----------



## JoyJoy

Smite said:


> Thats because they were deleted to make it seem like the FFA's attacked with no recourse.


 Oooooooh! A new conspiracy theory! YES! We needed a new one!


----------



## MaryElizabethAntoinette

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> So someone "attacked" FFAs in general?



Yeah, cuz of the fact that the two people who said those harsh things were FFA's themselves.


----------



## Smite

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> So someone "attacked" FFAs in general?



I don't know, I was just being a sensationalist and fueling one of the dumbest arguments i've ever witnessed next to "Whose the better captain? Kirk or Picard?".


----------



## mossystate

I like how some, as long as _they_ are getting massaged..can look past so much. It really is very common. Think about how many times we hear.." but, they don't treat ME that way ".


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Oh, BHMs were attacked and those posts deleted, too? :doh:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Smite said:


> I don't know, I was just being a sensationalist and fueling one of the dumbest arguments i've ever witnessed next to "Whose the better captain? Kirk or Picard?".





LOL- okay fair enough


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

MaryElizabethAntoinette said:


> Yeah, cuz of the fact that the two people who said those harsh things were FFA's themselves.




So all the BBWs here attacked all the FFAs?


----------



## LillyBBBW

BothGunsBlazing said:


> YOU HAVE GOT TO FUCKING KIDDING ME.
> 
> This thread cannot possibly still be going on? Fuck this whiny bullshit.
> 
> Now people are just making shit up. I want to see where fat men are ever referred to as gross.
> 
> Are BHMs emotional flowers on the edge of collapse?
> 
> APPARENTLY. and I suppose this would be that collapse.
> 
> seriously. what.the.fuck.



I'm not goint to go scraping through Dimensions to look them all up for you. You can take my word for it or not but it has been expressed here many times that some men find it okay for a woman to be fat but not a man.


----------



## AnnMarie

Divals said:


> they specifically mentioned AnnMarie, who I've met in person and is a very nice, beautiful lady...



Thank you. :blush:


----------



## Allie Cat

LillyBBBW said:


> I'm not goint to go scraping through Dimensions to look them all up for you. You can take my word for it or not but it has been expressed here many times that some men find it okay for a woman to be fat but not a man.



I can say it for a fact too, because I used to say it myself back in my younger, stupider (and somewhat thinner) days.



AnnMarie said:


> Thank you. :blush:



De nada, senorita


----------



## MaryElizabethAntoinette

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> So all the BBWs here attacked all the FFAs?



Yes, they generalized all FFA's into the ones who said those awful things. 

But why are we bothering with this? xP

I posted to get people to stop this silliness, not add to it. 

All the FFA's and BBW's and BHM's and FA's should get along!!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

LillyBBBW said:


> I'm not goint to go scraping through Dimensions to look them all up for you. You can take my word for it or not but it has been expressed here many times that some men find it okay for a woman to be fat but not a man.




In all fairness....some of the men here have also said that it's okay for a woman to be fat .... if it's in her ass and her waist is small. They have also said it's only sexy if a woman weighs over/under XXX pounds.....

We all have our issues to get over. 

I'm still not sure where BHMs or FFAs in general were "attacked" in this thread.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

I don't go to the BHM/FFA board. But I have no reason to believe what is being said is not true. BUT I do think this subject should have it's own thread. I think it's important that these issues are addressed.JMO.


----------



## mossystate

LillyBBBW said:


> I'm not goint to go scraping through Dimensions to look them all up for you. You can take my word for it or not but it has been expressed here many times that some men find it okay for a woman to be fat but not a man.




Yup. I have heard that. When a man says that to me..one on one..even though my strongest preference is not for really large men..I always verbally pistolwhip them for being so backwards..and...soooooo unappealing.

Oh..and GreenGirl...yup..yup


----------



## Smite

Have any of the BBW's said men shouldn't be fat at all? :O


----------



## AnnMarie

Smite said:


> Thats because they were deleted to make it seem like the FFA's attacked with no recourse.



Completely WRONG. 

/mod


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

MaryElizabethAntoinette said:


> Yes, they generalized all FFA's into the ones who said those awful things.
> 
> But why are we bothering with this? xP
> 
> I posted to get people to stop this silliness, not add to it.
> 
> All the FFA's and BBW's and BHM's and FA's should get along!!



I concur....yet you bothered with it. Please don't be angry for me responding to your response  


If you want the silliness to stop, why not make a more "loving" post instead of one that seeks to chastise people during what is obviously a very emotional time? You also admitted that you haven't read what was said...yet seek to tell others they should not be angry about it...while you apparently felt it was okay to get mad at a whole thread of people over the posts of how many? 1 or 2 people maybe? 
Personally, *I* have never attacked anyone for being an FFA.....just thought it was unnecessary to hear a generalized "shame on you" if you are really just put out with the actions of a few....


----------



## LillyBBBW

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> In all fairness....some of the men here have also said that it's okay for a woman to be fat .... if it's in her ass and her waist is small. They have also said it's only sexy if a woman weighs over/under XXX pounds.....
> 
> We all have our issues to get over.
> 
> I'm still not sure where BHMs or FFAs in general were "attacked" in this thread.



That's not really a point of relevence or comparison to what was asked. It was asked if it ever happend and the answer is yes. It was also asked how the BHM's would react and so far I've seen no evidence of the BHM's really reacting at all up till recently.


----------



## Smite

AnnMarie said:


> Completely WRONG.
> 
> /mod




Don't hurt me AnnMarie I was only poking fun


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Smite said:


> Have any of the BBW's said men shouldn't be fat at all? :O




and many of the BHMs don't prefer fat women at all- That's okay but vice versa isn't? 
Don't try to tell me that preferences for thinner women aren't openly expressed down on the BHM board....


----------



## AnnMarie

Smite said:


> Don't hurt me AnnMarie I was only poking fun




Okay. Spanking withheld. 

/mod


----------



## MaryElizabethAntoinette

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I concur....yet you bothered with it. Please don't be angry for me responding to your response
> 
> 
> If you want the silliness to stop, why not make a more "loving" post instead of one that seeks to chastise people during what is obviously a very emotional time? You also admitted that you haven't read what was said...yet seek to tell others they should not be angry about it...while you apparently felt it was okay to get mad at a whole thread of people over the posts of how many? 1 or 2 people maybe?
> Personally, *I* have never attacked anyone for being an FFA.....just thought it was unnecessary to hear a generalized "shame on you" if you are really just put out with the actions of a few....



Whoa, where did this come from? I didn't think I said anything hateful or anything mean. And I wasn't mad... I was just uber frustrated about how mean some people were being. Because people were being so cruel, I even tried to make an effort not to be, so I don't understand how what I said could have been interpreted as me being mad at a whole thread of people. But of course if it was interpreted as such, I'm sorry. 
I just really don't understand how so many people can be full of so much hate.


----------



## mossystate

Smite said:


> Have any of the BBW's said men shouldn't be fat at all? :O



Shouldn't be?...probably...women are human beings...capable of great stupidity...if someone does not have a _preference_ for someone of whatever weight..that is not a bad thing


----------



## Smite

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> and many of the BHMs don't prefer fat women at all? That's okay but vice versa isn't?
> Don't try to tell me that preferences for thinner women aren't openly expressed down on the BHM board....



Oh I won't tell you that because I noticed it myself. On here and my own board it bothers me too, but I was actually inquiring instead of pointing fingers.


----------



## Angel

MaryElizabethAntoinette said:


> --but for all of you to put this much effort in attacking them back... is just excessive.
> 
> Being a thin FFA myself, I'm a little peeved by how all the BBW's started attacking us.
> 
> And it also certainly doesn't mean that BHM's and FFA's aren't welcome on the boards. (Which I've heard many of you are saying... and I think is extremely harsh).
> 
> And for BBW's to say that FFA's don't belong?
> 
> So by BBW's attacking FFA's, you're also attacking your own kind.
> 
> And of course being an FFA myself, I don't understand how women who are attracted to fat _men_ can go around and talk shit about fat _women_ as well.
> 
> and just because you BBW's are the majority here, doesn't mean you can viciously and cruelly continue to attack these girls (and most FFA's included)
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure since I've actually spoken my mind and since I'm a thin FFA (the unacceptable minority, apparently), I'm going to be chastised for this post.
> 
> And this is place for us to get along and be loved by each other... not to attack each other.




I'm sorry that you feel that FFAs were attacked or aren't welcome. I don't believe that's the case at all.

There is a huge difference between personal attacks and expressing hurt or anger in regards to the actions of another. Did you see where anyone made any rude comments about any FFA's body or preference? Did you read any posts where any FFAs were indivudually or as a group slandered? 

Women (regardless of their size or preference) and some males were simply expressing their displeasure over actions; or were offering support for those who were hurt or offended by the actions of two women who either are or attempted to pass themselves off as FFAs. 

If it would have been BHM or FFA or FA who were the subject of such hateful expressions, don't doubt that many of us would have still been supportive and as outspoken as we were in this thread.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

MaryElizabethAntoinette said:


> Whoa, where did this come from? I didn't think I said anything hateful or anything mean. And I wasn't mad... I was just uber frustrated about how mean some people were being. Because people were being so cruel, I even tried to make an effort not to be, so I don't understand how what I said could have been interpreted as me being mad at a whole thread of people. But of course if it was interpreted as such, I'm sorry.
> I just really don't understand how so many people can be full of so much hate.



I don't perceive the "hate" like you do may be the difference...I perceive hurt, anger and betrayal. What has bothered *me* most in this thread is how people seem to think that people shouldn't be allowed to express their hurt/pain...you are allowed yours....and others should be allowed the same freedoms. 
Seriously, I think you're a nice woman from what I have seen of you on the boards. I think your post came from the need to defend your man. That is cool. Just don't see why you wouldn't get the need for other people to defend themselves or their friends in the same way you felt that need.....


----------



## largenlovely

I can't imagine why any reasonable person would assume that ALL FFA's feel this way, just because another expressed these types of things...that is unreasonable and i haven't seen this expressed anywhere. This is really derailing us from the entire point of the thread.

The problem is, that the posts WERE leaked and now we have to deal with the anti-fat statements that were made. Yes, things are getting a bit out of hand, but the matter should be dealt with. As i said earlier, it's not a matter of them being catty (that happens), it's a matter of them directing supersized fatties to the WLS board, because they (we) are too fat to wear socks. That type of attitude should not be tolerated here. 




MaryElizabethAntoinette said:


> Being a thin FFA myself, I'm a little peeved by how all the BBW's started attacking us. Just because two people in our "category" said some awful things, certainly doesn't mean that we're all on their side and that we agree with them. And it also certainly doesn't mean that BHM's and FFA's aren't welcome on the boards. (Which I've heard many of you are saying... and I think is extremely harsh). After all, this is a place where people who normally don't fit in with society can go and find a community all of their own with people who they can relate to. And for BBW's to say that FFA's don't belong? Fat men have admirers just as fat women do, and I know many of the FFA's are BBW's themselves. So by BBW's attacking FFA's, you're also attacking your own kind.
> 
> and just because you BBW's are the majority here, doesn't mean you can viciously and cruelly continue to attack these girls (and most FFA's included) for a private message they didn't intend on being leaked.


----------



## Eclectic_Girl

MaryElizabethAntoinette said:


> Being a thin FFA myself, I'm a little peeved by how all the BBW's started attacking us. Just because two people in our "category" said some awful things, certainly doesn't mean that we're all on their side and that we agree with them. And it also certainly doesn't mean that BHM's and FFA's aren't welcome on the boards. (Which I've heard many of you are saying... and I think is extremely harsh). .



I haven't heard anywhere that people want to exclude BHMs and FFAs wholesale. Fat bigotry (to large people of either gender) is what is unwelcome here. I can see people being a little wary of the Loves' circle of friends, wondering how far they share their opinions, but nobody's calling for anybody to leave the boards except the two who actually committed the offense.


MaryElizabethAntoinette said:


> And of course being an FFA myself, I don't understand how women who are attracted to fat _men_ can go around and talk shit about fat _women_ as well.



Yeah, I really don't get that part either. I mean, LoveDubh isn't an FFA (just a horrified scientist ), but LovesBHMs must have a very complicated mental map of the concept of "fat".



MaryElizabethAntoinette said:


> But although LuvDubh and LovesBHMs were offensive and insulting in what they said, and just because you BBW's are the majority here, doesn't mean you can viciously and cruelly continue to attack these girls (and most FFA's included) for a private message they didn't intend on being leaked.



The two Loves aren't being attacked because they were being catty to a fat girl, they're being censured for ridiculing a fat girl for being fat in a particular area of her body and for suggesting that a fat girl that is (by their definition) too fat should undergo a surgery that many of us equate to mutilation. A lot of the intensity of the vitriol is that many of the fat women on the board considered them friends or at least allies and felt betrayed and lied to in a place (as you're about to say) for us to get along and be loved by each other.



MaryElizabethAntoinette said:


> I'm sure since I've actually spoken my mind and since I'm a thin FFA (the unacceptable minority, apparently), I'm going to be chastised for this post. But I'm not gonna keep silent after sitting here and reading all 41 pages of this nonsense. And sure, it's hypocritical for me to add to this thread. But come on people, shouldn't we all be on each other's side? We're *all* a minority in society. And this is place for us to get along and be loved by each other... not to attack each other.



Nope - your opinions are as welcome as everyone else's. I see no reason why it would be hypocritical. And I'm sorry you feel like a minority here. If it helps, I don't feel particularly welcomed on the BHM/FFA boards because I'm a really fat chick who likes big guys (who seem to want primarily slim girls). I don't let it throw me though, I just spend my time posting where I feel more comfortable.

Most of us would prefer it if we could could all get along - but if our very fatness is attacked in this place of fat acceptance, we will defend ourselves and our community. Too many of us have spent too many years internalizing the fat hatred directed at us to not make a stand against it now.


----------



## Smite

Were the loves banned? If so thats unfair.


----------



## TCUBOB

Sweet Jesus....I made that joke and then went back to reading the red-hot TOTW we got goin' here....

I'll say this. I think Tooz, Mini and Waxwing are chock-ful of good points. The world might not be a better place if we listened to them. But it sure as hell wouldn't hurt, IMHO.

I know LBHMS. I think that she's a good person. And I'm hurt that she's being attacked like this for this long. 

Did she say some things that she regrets? It would seem so. I think she's tried to apologize, but there seems to be more unloading pent-up rage and anger at family, friends, and society for the way that they treat many of us.

She made a mistake. People do it all the time. Hell, like I said a zillion pages back, I do it all the time. I've done it here. And I've apologized. And I hope that people have forgiven me.....I think that they have.

No good, in my opinion, can come from more rehashing of this. Now I'm in no position to tell people how to feel. But I think that Anne Marie and Ginny have set a good example for the rest of us.

If we're going to continue in this thread, however, I suggest that it's time for drastic measures.

First, unless you're a fat woman (definition: north of 300 lbs? Is that inclusive enough?), you have to take a loyalty oath. I don't know what said oath should involve, but it's going to have to show how much you love fat women. So all you skinny women, skinny guys, moderately fat women, just under the limit fat women (hint: Put buckshot in your pockets. I don't think that anyone will be checking!), moderately fat guys, fat guys and anyone I've left out, you'll have to pass the loyalty oath. Said oath will include:



Placing your right hand on a cankle and swearing fealty to fat women;

Agreeing to 24-hour thought monitoring, and;

Completing a Feat Of Endurance, which should be at least one of the following:


Getting kicked out of an all-you-can-eat meatstravaganza for eating so much that they ran out of tender delicious meat to slice off on your plate
Going to Baskin Robbins and eating the 31-flavor sundae with all the trimmings, INCLUDING the cherry on top
Eating so many donuts at your local Krispy/Dunkin/Shipley's/etc. that they have nothing but holes to sell, or
Be permanently banned from a Chinese buffet, complete with picture in the window.

Obviously, these are just suggestions. Feel free to add to the list!

If anyone needs me, I'll be in a pie spiral.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> and many of the BHMs don't prefer fat women at all- That's okay but vice versa isn't?
> Don't try to tell me that preferences for thinner women aren't openly expressed down on the BHM board....



I've noticed that too. Aside from the two people I paid in advance, nobody commented on my picture when I posted it on the BHM board. It's a tough crowd for SSBBW's over there however no FFA there has ever said that women "shouldn't" be fat or else I would have given them a beating by now.


----------



## Smite

I didnt notice your picture lilly, but you mightve posted it before I joined. If I saw it I would've commented! <3


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

LillyBBBW said:


> I've noticed that too. Aside from the two people I paid in advance, nobody commented on my picture when I posted it on the BHM board. It's a tough crowd for SSBBW's over there however no FFA there has ever said that women "shouldn't" be fat or else I would have given them a beating by now.




Lol....you got a man to comment. I got another BBW who was being kind  

I love her to death...but I did notice the total lack of interest by the menfolk. That being said, I have pretty much since then kept to the weight and other boards where my pics seem to be appreciated/wanted 

The BHM don't have to like me.....I just don't want to hear any griping about BBWs that like a thin waistline themselves.....


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

It would be good if every FA/FFA had a picture of themselves with their hand on a belly ..

I SOLEMNLY SWEAR NOT TO TALK SHIT ON TEH BELLY OR ANY PARTS THAT MAY SURROUND IT.


----------



## MaryElizabethAntoinette

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I don't perceive the "hate" like you do may be the difference...I perceive hurt, anger and betrayal. What has bothered *me* most in this thread is how people seem to think that people shouldn't be allowed to express their hurt/pain...you are allowed yours....and others should be allowed the same freedoms.
> Seriously, I think you're a nice woman from what I have seen of you on the boards. I think your post came from the need to defend your man. That is cool. Just don't see why you wouldn't get the need for other people to defend themselves or their friends in the same way you felt that need.....



Oh no, I completely understand how people needed to defend themselves. If no one said anything against what LovesBHM's and Luvdubh said, then that would have been crazy!
I wasn't upset by just what people said towards them, but also what they said themselves. And if anything, I added my two cents as an FFA, that I don't agree with what LovesBHM's and LuvDubh said, and that just because they were FFA's... not all FFA's think like that.

What made me think that people were saying that BHM's and FFA's don't belong here was the statement that Dimensions was originally made just for Fat Women and their admirers. Sure it was originally just for that, but it's changed to include us as well.


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Smite said:


> Were the loves banned? If so thats unfair.



Why? Because they didn't insult fat men? But no they have not been banned as far as I know.


----------



## Eclectic_Girl

Smite said:


> Were the loves banned? If so thats unfair.



Nope - not banned. That's why they're still posting.


----------



## Smite

Sandie_Zitkus said:


> Why? Because they didn't insult fat men? But no they have not been banned as far as I know.



Because the PM's were private.

We should come up with a classy name for this like "Dimensions-gate".


----------



## MaryElizabethAntoinette

Eclectic_Girl said:


> The two Loves aren't being attacked because they were being catty to a fat girl, they're being censured for ridiculing a fat girl for being fat in a particular area of her body and for suggesting that a fat girl that is (by their definition) too fat should undergo a surgery that many of us equate to mutilation. A lot of the intensity of the vitriol is that many of the fat women on the board considered them friends or at least allies and felt betrayed and lied to in a place (as you're about to say) for us to get along and be loved by each other.



Yeah, that's why I stated I didn't read the PM that was going around. All I knew was that they were being harsh and cruel, and everyone was just bombarding them back with equal harshness and cruelty. 

It was like a meanness extravaganza!


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

MaryElizabethAntoinette said:


> Oh no, I completely understand how people needed to defend themselves. If no one said anything against what LovesBHM's and Luvdubh said, then that would have been crazy!
> I wasn't upset by just what people said towards them, but also what they said themselves. And if anything, I added my two cents as an FFA, that I don't agree with what LovesBHM's and LuvDubh said, and that just because they were FFA's... not all FFA's think like that.
> 
> *What made me think that people were saying that BHM's and FFA's don't belong here was the statement that Dimensions was originally made just for Fat Women and their admirers. Sure it was originally just for that, but it's changed to include us as well.*




When you put it that way, then I can see your point of contention. I didn't take it that way when I read it but can see why you would. *I* don't feel that way...and many of us BBWs are FFAs, as well.
Personally, I'm glad there is a board for the males and their admirers. It only seems right for this place to be whole


----------



## Sandie_Zitkus

Smite said:


> Because the PM's were private.
> 
> We should come up with a classy name for this like "Dimensions-gate".



Once it leaves your mail box it's not privaye anymore. We've already been through this.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Smite said:


> Because the PM's were private.
> 
> We should come up with a classy name for this like "Dimensions-gate".



It's being called Cankle-gate


Where have you been?


----------



## MisticalMisty

TCUBOB said:


> I know LBHMS. I think that she's a good person. And I'm hurt that she's being attacked like this for this long.
> 
> Did she say some things that she regrets? It would seem so. I think she's tried to apologize, but there seems to be more unloading pent-up rage and anger at family, friends, and society for the way that they treat many of us.
> 
> She made a mistake. People do it all the time. Hell, like I said a zillion pages back, I do it all the time. I've done it here. And I've apologized. And I hope that people have forgiven me.....I think that they have.



Honestly, from what she said and now the shit that's being stirred on the BHM board..I think she regrets getting caught more than she does what was said. I'd even wager that she's had even more of those same conversations.

I don't think any of the anger that's been directed at her has anything to do with society..etc. It has everything to do with her being two-faced, keeping up appearances and false pretenses. It has everything to do with her being so sweet and supportive to our faces..and some of us literally..and then making such horrific comments essentially behind our backs. That betrayel is one of the worst kind.


You know..they have that saying.."You made your bed, now you gotta lie in it." She made her bed. She's an adult..a well educated adult who knew better. So, until her actions speak the same tone as her words...I think a lot of people feel that she can take that apology and shove it up her ass.


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## Smite

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> It's being called Cankle-gate
> 
> 
> Where have you been?



Apparently at the wrong gate


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## LillyBBBW

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Lol....you got a man to comment. I got another BBW who was being kind
> 
> I love her to death...but I did notice the total lack of interest by the menfolk. That being said, I have pretty much since then kept to the weight and other boards where my pics seem to be appreciated/wanted
> 
> The BHM don't have to like me.....I just don't want to hear any griping about BBWs that like a thin waistline themselves.....



Agreed! I was going to post that in so many words over in the BHM thread but a few posts here made me think better of it.


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## Smite

MisticalMisty said:


> Honestly, from what she said and now the shit that's being stirred on the BHM board..I think she regrets getting caught more than she does what was said. I'd even wager that she's had even more of those same conversations.
> 
> I don't think any of the anger that's been directed at her has anything to do with society..etc. It has everything to do with her being two-faced, keeping up appearances and false pretenses. It has everything to do with her being so sweet and supportive to our faces..and some of us literally..and then making such horrific comments essentially behind our backs. That betrayel is one of the worst kind.
> 
> 
> You know..they have that saying.."You made your bed, now you gotta lie in it." She made her bed. She's an adult..a well educated adult who knew better. So, until her actions speak the same tone as her words...I think a lot of people feel that she can take that apology and shove it up her ass.



Who leaked the PM's in the first place? If it wasn't the loves but a moderator or the administrator, then....there can be some pretty hefty lawsuits coming ahead.


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## BothGunsBlazing

Smite said:


> Who leaked the PM's in the first place? If it wasn't the loves but a moderator or the administrator, then....there can be some pretty hefty lawsuits coming ahead.



Are you joking or are you really this stupid?


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## largenlovely

geeze dude read the thread...it's been discussed a million times



Smite said:


> Who leaked the PM's in the first place? If it wasn't the loves but a moderator or the administrator, then....there can be some pretty hefty lawsuits coming ahead.


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## saucywench

JoyJoy said:


> Oooooooh! A new conspiracy theory! YES! We needed a new one!


Hahaha, riiiight...

Anyone else besides me getting this visual image?
View attachment dimsmartyr.JPG

This ad bought and paid for with blood, sweat, tears, hand-wringing, ego, and arrogance by the BHM/FFA Campaign for LovesBHMS Sainthood--by...err, well, by LovesBHMS herself.


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## LisaInNC

Smite said:


> Who leaked the PM's in the first place? If it wasn't the loves but a moderator or the administrator, then....there can be some pretty hefty lawsuits coming ahead.



Lawsuits? LMAO you really have been watching too much Judge Judy


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## MisticalMisty

Smite said:


> Who leaked the PM's in the first place? If it wasn't the loves but a moderator or the administrator, then....there can be some pretty hefty lawsuits coming ahead.



Would you please do us a favor and familiarize yourself with the other pages of this thread before making such.... a misinformed statement.


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## Smite

Except for the whole "invasion of privacy" thing....



> Would you please do us a favor and familiarize yourself with the other pages of this thread before making such.... a misinformed statement.



But that consists of reading alot of inane, rambling posts . Not to mention it wasn't a statement but rather a question....of intent.


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## largenlovely

you don't even know what you're talking about  *ugh*



Smite said:


> Except for the whole "invasion of privacy" thing....


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## Eclectic_Girl

Smite said:


> Except for the whole "invasion of privacy" thing....



Sigh....this has been asked and answered repeatedly, but in the hopes of nipping another shitstorm in the bud:

Admins and moderators have no access to PMs. According to the Loves themselves, one of them accidentally sent it to someone else. That person was disturbed and sent it to someone else and, weeks later, here we are.


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## Tina

Smite said:


> Who leaked the PM's in the first place? If it wasn't the loves but a moderator or the administrator, then....there can be some pretty hefty lawsuits coming ahead.



You have no idea what you're talking about. No moderator nor admin leaked anything. There is a cure for ignorance: education. Try educating yourself by reading the thread.

"Inane, rambling post." Oh, the irony.


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## Smite

I do, it's listed in the vBulliten rules that whoever purchased this place agreed to when buying the contract. But again, I wasn't stating anything (hence the *IF*), but asking a question.


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## BothGunsBlazing

Smite said:


> Except for the whole "invasion of privacy" thing....
> 
> 
> 
> But that consists of reading alot of inane, rambling posts . Not to mention it wasn't a statement but rather a question....of intent.



last time I checked you just started posting in this thread, so the amount of inane shit going on can't possibly be anywhere close to what it is since your arrival.


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## Smite

BothGunsBlazing said:


> last time I checked you just started posting in this thread, so the amount of inane shit going on can't possibly be anywhere close to what it is since your arrival.




Difference is I purposely spouted inane shit, unlike others...


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## LillyBBBW

Smite said:


> Except for the whole "invasion of privacy" thing....
> 
> 
> 
> But that consists of reading alot of inane, rambling posts . Not to mention it wasn't a statement but rather a question....of intent.



LoveBHMs accidentally forwarded the PMs to someone who then forwarded it and it has since been passed around to everyone else.


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## Smite

Well then that was stupid, remember to check before you um...

what rhymes with check?


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## DolceBBW

TCUBOB said:


> Sweet Jesus....I made that joke and then went back to reading the red-hot TOTW we got goin' here....
> 
> I'll say this. I think Tooz, Mini and Waxwing are chock-ful of good points. The world might not be a better place if we listened to them. But it sure as hell wouldn't hurt, IMHO.
> 
> I know LBHMS. I think that she's a good person. And I'm hurt that she's being attacked like this for this long.
> 
> Did she say some things that she regrets? It would seem so. I think she's tried to apologize, but there seems to be more unloading pent-up rage and anger at family, friends, and society for the way that they treat many of us.
> 
> She made a mistake. People do it all the time. Hell, like I said a zillion pages back, I do it all the time. I've done it here. And I've apologized. And I hope that people have forgiven me.....I think that they have.
> 
> No good, in my opinion, can come from more rehashing of this. Now I'm in no position to tell people how to feel. But I think that Anne Marie and Ginny have set a good example for the rest of us.
> 
> If we're going to continue in this thread, however, I suggest that it's time for drastic measures.
> 
> First, unless you're a fat woman (definition: north of 300 lbs? Is that inclusive enough?), you have to take a loyalty oath. I don't know what said oath should involve, but it's going to have to show how much you love fat women. So all you skinny women, skinny guys, moderately fat women, just under the limit fat women (hint: Put buckshot in your pockets. I don't think that anyone will be checking!), moderately fat guys, fat guys and anyone I've left out, you'll have to pass the loyalty oath. Said oath will include:
> 
> 
> 
> Placing your right hand on a cankle and swearing fealty to fat women;
> 
> Agreeing to 24-hour thought monitoring, and;
> 
> Completing a Feat Of Endurance, which should be at least one of the following:
> 
> 
> Getting kicked out of an all-you-can-eat meatstravaganza for eating so much that they ran out of tender delicious meat to slice off on your plate
> Going to Baskin Robbins and eating the 31-flavor sundae with all the trimmings, INCLUDING the cherry on top
> Eating so many donuts at your local Krispy/Dunkin/Shipley's/etc. that they have nothing but holes to sell, or
> Be permanently banned from a Chinese buffet, complete with picture in the window.
> 
> Obviously, these are just suggestions. Feel free to add to the list!
> 
> If anyone needs me, I'll be in a pie spiral.



ok so I solemnly swear to all the things he just said...... and i have to agree he's making some sense this needs to die already. (braces for the backlash)


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## Tina

I really didn't want to close this thread, but it is now seeming to turn into a board war, which we will not have.

Take this idiocy to PM, as long as you're not harassing anyone, which is a violation of the rules.


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