# Daily doctors office activism



## Russell Williams (Jan 3, 2008)

A fat female friend of mine and I went to a doctors office which was also an urgent care facility. In the doctors office there was only one armless chair and a thin person was sitting in it. The fat female friends surveyed the situation and loudly stated that since they were no armless chairs available she would sit in a chair with arms and if the arm broke it would be the doctors offices problem since they did not provide adequate seating for large patients.

Later I went up to the intake worker and asked the following question, If my fat friend had broken the arm on the chair who would be responsible for paying the cost of the breakage? I was given a card that contains the name of someone I could call. I also pointed out that doctors said it was unhealthy to be fat and that the average American was getting fatter and that therefore this particular medical facility could expect to be seeing an increasing number of unhealthy fat people. Where would they sit?

Was my fat female friend embarrassed after I asked that question? After she had loudly announced to the whole office that she might be so fat that she would break an arm on the chair I doubt that she was embarrassed by my asking the question. But it is true that I did not ask her.

Yours truly,

Russell Williams


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## Jes (Jan 3, 2008)

russell, a question. I don't want to get into the issue of your activism, but I DO wonder about something: when you go to the doctor with a fat person, it is always a woman and is it always the same woman? Is this a partner of yours? If not, is there a... take your friend to the doctor day or something (this exists) on which you do this? I ask b/c I've been fat my entire life, and I've never once taken anyone with me to the doctor (unless it was when I was a child, or once in college, when I had a procedure done at a place to which I could not make it w/o a car). I'm just really curious about this element of things.


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## LoveBHMS (Jan 3, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> A fat female friend of mine and I went to a doctors office which was also an urgent care facility. In the doctors office there was only one armless chair and a thin person was sitting in it. The fat female friends surveyed the situation and loudly stated that since they were no armless chairs available she would sit in a chair with arms and if the arm broke it would be the doctors offices problem since they did not provide adequate seating for large patients.
> 
> Later I went up to the intake worker and asked the following question, If my fat friend had broken the arm on the chair who would be responsible for paying the cost of the breakage? I was given a card that contains the name of someone I could call. I also pointed out that doctors said it was unhealthy to be fat and that the average American was getting fatter and that therefore this particular medical facility could expect to be seeing an increasing number of unhealthy fat people. Where would they sit?
> 
> ...



Well, it's not really the doctor's fault as much as the thin person sitting in the armless chair. If a non-handicapped person uses handicapped parking or a restroom, it's not the fault of the establishment. The doctor's office DID have an armless chair, it was just used by somebody who did not need it.

Why didn't you or your friend just address the thin person and say "My friend is too fat to sit in a chair with arms. Would you mind using a chair with arms since you're thin and letting a fat person sit in the armless chair?"


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## TraciJo67 (Jan 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Well, it's not really the doctor's fault as much as the thin person sitting in the armless chair. If a non-handicapped person uses handicapped parking or a restroom, it's not the fault of the establishment. The doctor's office DID have an armless chair, it was just used by somebody who did not need it.
> 
> Why didn't you or your friend just address the thin person and say "My friend is too fat to sit in a chair with arms. Would you mind using a chair with arms since you're thin and letting a fat person sit in the armless chair?"



Unless it was marked in some way, the thin person using the chair was probably clueless that someone else may have needed to use it. 

Russell: I'm not sure how announcing in a loud voice ... to the receptionist ... that there weren't any chairs for fat people to use ... can be construed as a type of activism. Whether or not the receptionist cared ... she certainly isn't in a position to make any changes. Ditto on approaching her to ask who would be responsible if your friend broke the chair. Why not at least speak with an office manager -- calmly and reasonably?


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## Jes (Jan 3, 2008)

I do also wonder about fatness. We've seen a shift toward fatter americans, but then again, much of that 'shift' is propaganda, changing BMI stats (while the thin/avg/fat bodies themselves stay the same), the diet industry. Can we have it both ways? Can we argue that this 'obesity epidemic' is mostly spin AND then say we need bigger chairs? Know what I mean? Maybe I don't know, but it IS something to think about. Perhaps waiting rooms have never been able to accomodate large people well (I don't know; my ass tends to fit), so that might not be the issue, but talking about 'in the future americans will be even fatter, so what are you gonna do THEN?' when we're also saying that the 'will be fatter' is mostly obesity epidemic propaganda seems a bit dicey.


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## LoveBHMS (Jan 3, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> Unless it was marked in some way, the thin person using the chair was probably clueless that someone else may have needed to use it.
> 
> Russell: I'm not sure how announcing in a loud voice ... to the receptionist ... that there weren't any chairs for fat people to use ... can be construed as a type of activism. Whether or not the receptionist cared ... she certainly isn't in a position to make any changes. Ditto on approaching her to ask who would be responsible if your friend broke the chair. Why not at least speak with an office manager -- calmly and reasonably?



Oh, it's likely the thin person was clueless. This is why _activism_ is needed. To educate people.

They might also consider putting up a sign as they do on public transport. I've seen seats on subways that say "Please give up this seat if an elderly or handicapped person needs it." Maybe they could do the same thing with armless chairs--have a sign asking the person to move if a fat person needs the chair.


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## Shala (Jan 3, 2008)

Maybe this is just me(and I should point out that I don't embarrass easily) but I would have been very upset if someone I was with did this with me at a doctor's office.

The thinner woman had every right to sit in that seat. Should she go into every establishment and survey the chairs, making sure not to sit in any fat friendly ones? 

I'm a big girl who has been shoving herself in tiny places her whole life...if I'd entered that room and there were no chairs that I fit into. Well I guess I am standing then. Just as if I'd gone in there and every chair was taken.

I have never expected the entire world to accomodate me because I am fat. And why the heck would I even want to be singled out like that? I just don't have that sense of entitlement.


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## Big Beautiful Dreamer (Jan 3, 2008)

I agree -- this sounds more like entitlement.

ideally there would be more than one armless chair. On the third hand, I find myself lining up behind the person who said, "It's as if every seat were taken." I would not stare a person into giving up his or her seat for me... Thus, if every seat into which I could fit were taken, that's that.


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## DeniseW (Jan 3, 2008)

I would have quietly asked the thin person if they would mind changing seats with me and if they refused, I would either stand or sit sideways in the smaller chair. I don't think what you did or your fat friend can be in any way mistaken for activism, it just seems rude and pushy to me


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## mossystate (Jan 3, 2008)

I so agree. I mean, this woman came in and started acting like a fool. Yes, she could have asked the thinner person...who might have had health issues of her OWN which made it that she NEEDED to sit in that chair ( know how some will judge those who have handicap stickers or those thingies you hang from the rear view mirror..and people will look at someone who seems to be in good health and glare at them...while abuse happens, sometimes people have health problems one cannot seeeeeee ). I am all for asking to speak to the appropriate people, to get the changes we all want to see, but, you do not really have the right, as a decent human being, to make OTHER ailing people feel more poorly..embarrassed...singled out...you...just...do not...have...that...right. Some people were just born in a damned barn..I swear. Wait, animals would not act like that.


eta.....kicks Santa..hard...8 times...8 is ' my ' number...heh..


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## Santaclear (Jan 3, 2008)

If I walk into a doctor's office and someone's sitting in a chair I want, I start kicking the chair first to see if they'll move. :bow:


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## Laina (Jan 3, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> Unless it was marked in some way, the thin person using the chair was probably clueless that someone else may have needed to use it.
> 
> Russell: I'm not sure how announcing in a loud voice ... to the receptionist ... that there weren't any chairs for fat people to use ... can be construed as a type of activism. Whether or not the receptionist cared ... she certainly isn't in a position to make any changes. Ditto on approaching her to ask who would be responsible if your friend broke the chair. Why not at least speak with an office manager -- calmly and reasonably?



Thank you, thank you, thank you! (I'm a receptionist. I didn't buy the chairs, and I know they're uncomfortable, but I don't have any say in the matter. I just answer phones and stuff.)

Also, if you want a phone number, want to issue a complaint, or anything like that...it's far easier to say "who would I talk to about changing this?" than it is to gripe to a receptionist about responsibility for broken chairs. If you want us to change something, or put you in touch with someone who CAN change things, don't meander. Just ask. That way your point doesn't get missed, or ignored by a harried receptionist who just wants you to stop being loud. 

(I've noticed that activism is more easily swallowed when mixed with a dose of diplomacy.)


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## k1009 (Jan 3, 2008)

mossystate said:


> I so agree. I mean, this woman came in and started acting like a fool. Yes, she could have asked the thinner person...who might have had health issues of her OWN which made it that she NEEDED to sit in that chair ( know how some will judge those who have handicap stickers or those thingies you hang from the rear view mirror..and people will look at someone who seems to be in good health and glare at them...while abuse happens, sometimes people have health problems one cannot seeeeeee ). I am all for asking to speak to the appropriate people, to get the changes we all want to see, but, you do not really have the right, as a decent human being, to make OTHER ailing people feel more poorly..embarrassed...singled out...you...just...do not...have...that...right. Some people were just born in a damned barn..I swear. Wait, animals would not act like that.



Yeah! I've mentioned a friend of mine on here before - she has a neurological condition that makes depth perception and some other stuff very tricky. A lot of fat people things actually accomodate her needs better than the regular kind. She would always choose the armless chairs if possible due to misjudging where the arms of the chair would hit her ass and hips when sitting down. Did you even stop to think that this woman might have had such a condition? That she might have been utterly humiliated by your and your friend's grandstanding?

How is this any different from the thin woman who looked in my basket at the grocery store last night and smirked when she saw the litre of cookie dough ice cream? She made all sorts of assumptions about me and my lifestyle and heck, it was embarassing. At first I was tempted to say "screw you, I've got a ton of work to do and I need something to keep me going" or "you know, I eat try to eat healthily most of the time and this is just a little treat for me" but then I realised I owed her absolutely zero explanation. Perhaps this thin woman was tempted to tell you about her arthritis, or any number of conditions which would make using an armless chair necessary but then realised that she owed you both nothing. Nothing at all.

Just one more thing. If people perceive fatties as being gluttonous, demanding jerks, how did this episode do anything posititve for us at all? No one is going to bend over backwards for a person who jumps around demanding things, and the intake worker was more than likely put on the defensive by the aggression involved and said the first thing that popped into her head which may not necessarily have been the opinion of any of the treating doctors. When people feel threatned they're not exactly nice. So basically the view of us as being greedy for everything has been reinforced through activism. Yay!


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## TraciJo67 (Jan 3, 2008)

Santaclear said:


> If I walk into a doctor's office and someone's sitting in a chair I want, I start kicking the chair first to see if they'll move. :bow:



Not me. I just kick the person in the chair. More to the point.


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## TallFatSue (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, here's my office manager side speaking again. Maybe Russell means well, but methinx his form of activism is counterproductive. And I can't help thinking that maybe Russell is actually doing it for himself, in order to keep *himself* in the spotlight. His regular posts of "hey everybody, look at me and what I'm doing to make the world a better place" seem so doggone self-serving.

I get much better results by being firm but polite and working together to reach a consensus. By Russell being so in-your-face about it, the people he tries to educate are put on the defensive, and hunker down in a bunker mentality. Yep, people are like that. The message is completely lost because all people remember is "some crazy irate man screaming."

He'd embarrass the dickens out of me if he were trying to save me from the supposed cruelties of the thin world, and I don't embarrass easily. I've been in some of the situations he describes and rarely had any problems I couldn't resolve with a smile and friendly persuasion. It's soooo much more productive to work together, rather than make it an adversarial relationship from the get-go, and easier on the blood pressure for all concerned.



k1009 said:


> the thin woman who looked in my basket at the grocery store last night and smirked when she saw the litre of cookie dough ice cream?


That happens to me once in a while, and I make no response whatsoever, except to look her straight in the eye for a couple seconds and give her my most radiant smile. I can almost imagine her thinking "how dare that fat woman enjoy herself so much!"


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## Russell Williams (Jan 3, 2008)

Jes said:


> russell, a question. I don't want to get into the issue of your activism, but I DO wonder about something: when you go to the doctor with a fat person, it is always a woman and is it always the same woman? Is this a partner of yours? If not, is there a... take your friend to the doctor day or something (this exists) on which you do this? I ask b/c I've been fat my entire life, and I've never once taken anyone with me to the doctor (unless it was when I was a child, or once in college, when I had a procedure done at a place to which I could not make it w/o a car). I'm just really curious about this element of things.



While it is not always true as a general rule of thumb remember the following, "When you go to a medical facility keep your wits about you or they will kill you." Since there are times when a person is too sick to keep their wits about them a person going to medical facility should always try to have an advocate with them.

In this case the person I was with was my advocate and she picked up on something that the doctor did not pick up on. I have asthma and recently my rescue inhaler had not been helping me very much. The doctor was sympathetic but had no real powerful suggestions about what else could be done. A day later, while I was again ineffectually using my rescue inhaler my advocate asked to look at the inhaler. The advocate noticed that the inhaler expired in 2001 as suggested that the use of a more recent inhaler might be effective. My advocate's suggestion has worked.


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## Russell Williams (Jan 3, 2008)

LoveBHMS said:


> Well, it's not really the doctor's fault as much as the thin person sitting in the armless chair. If a non-handicapped person uses handicapped parking or a restroom, it's not the fault of the establishment. The doctor's office DID have an armless chair, it was just used by somebody who did not need it.
> 
> Why didn't you or your friend just address the thin person and say "My friend is too fat to sit in a chair with arms. Would you mind using a chair with arms since you're thin and letting a fat person sit in the armless chair?"



There was one armless chair and they were to fat people in the office. If one third of Americans are fat there should be more than one armless chair in each medical facility. Doctors keep saying it is unhealthy to be fat yet their seating accommodations suggest that they do not expect to see any fat people.


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## Russell Williams (Jan 3, 2008)

Why didn't you or your friend just address the thin person and say "My friend is too fat to sit in a chair with arms. Would you mind using a chair with arms since you're thin and letting a fat person sit in the armless chair?"[/QUOTE]


I do my activism not just for myself but for all fat people. What percentage of fat people do you know who would feel comfortable in public saying this about themselves or about a friend?


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## Russell Williams (Jan 3, 2008)

k1009 said:


> Yeah! I've mentioned a friend of mine on here before - she has a neurological condition that makes depth perception and some other stuff very tricky. A lot of fat people things actually accomodate her needs better than the regular kind. She would always choose the armless chairs if possible due to misjudging where the arms of the chair would hit her ass and hips when sitting down. Did you even stop to think that this woman might have had such a condition? That she might have been utterly humiliated by your and your friend's grandstanding?
> 
> How is this any different from the thin woman who looked in my basket at the grocery store last night and smirked when she saw the litre of cookie dough ice cream? She made all sorts of assumptions about me and my lifestyle and heck, it was embarassing. At first I was tempted to say "screw you, I've got a ton of work to do and I need something to keep me going" or "you know, I eat try to eat healthily most of the time and this is just a little treat for me" but then I realised I owed her absolutely zero explanation. Perhaps this thin woman was tempted to tell you about her arthritis, or any number of conditions which would make using an armless chair necessary but then realised that she owed you both nothing. Nothing at all.
> 
> Just one more thing. If people perceive fatties as being gluttonous, demanding jerks, how did this episode do anything posititve for us at all? No one is going to bend over backwards for a person who jumps around demanding things, and the intake worker was more than likely put on the defensive by the aggression involved and said the first thing that popped into her head which may not necessarily have been the opinion of any of the treating doctors. When people feel threatned they're not exactly nice. So basically the view of us as being greedy for everything has been reinforced through activism. Yay!



remember, there was only one armless chair in the whole room. What would happen if my fat friend sat in it and they another fat person came in, where would they sit?

I know that when people feel threatened they are not exactly nice. I believe that was proven in Little Rock Arkansas when the black children threatened a whole bunch of white people by wanting to be in an all-white school. My training and my background includes discussions with people who would ask why a black person would want to go someplace where they were not wanted. When Martin Luther King and others went around demanding things is it your position that that was a bad thing to do because?


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## k1009 (Jan 3, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> remember, there was only one armless chair in the whole room. What would happen if my fat friend sat in it and they another fat person came in, where would they sit?
> 
> I know that when people feel threatened they are not exactly nice. I believe that was proven in Little Rock Arkansas when the black children threatened a whole bunch of white people by wanting to be in an all-white school. My training and my background includes discussions with people who would ask why a black person would want to go someplace where they were not wanted. When Martin Luther King and others went around demanding things is it your position that that was a bad thing to do because?



So that's your gripe! I just thought you were angry with the thin woman for exercising her thin privilege before you and your friend arrived!

As for the rest, yeah, ok. Call me when you're lynched for demanding an armless chair.


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## TraciJo67 (Jan 3, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> My training and my background includes discussions with people who would ask why a black person would want to go someplace where they were not wanted. When Martin Luther King and others went around demanding things is it your position that that was a bad thing to do because?



You, sir, are no Martin Luther King.


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## Russell Williams (Jan 3, 2008)

"No one is going to bend over backwards for a person who jumps around demanding things,"

The above statement does not include the factors of power and money. Have you ever heard of the NRA? Do they ever jump around demanding things? Do politicians ever pay any attention to them?

Have you ever heard of people being against abortion? Do they ever jump around and demand that abortions be ended? Do politicians ever pass laws limiting or ending abortions? If your statement is true, why is abortion access becoming more limited in some areas?


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## Russell Williams (Jan 3, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> You, sir, are no Martin Luther King.



Nope, but I did not ask if you thought I was Martin Luther King, I asked you whether or not you believed he was doing good work or bad work.


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## TraciJo67 (Jan 3, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> Nope, but I did not ask if you thought I was Martin Luther King, I asked you whether or not you believed he was doing good work or bad work.



His work has nothing to do with your work. Apple, meet orange.


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## Russell Williams (Jan 3, 2008)

Jes said:


> I do also wonder about fatness. We've seen a shift toward fatter americans, but then again, much of that 'shift' is propaganda, changing BMI stats (while the thin/avg/fat bodies themselves stay the same), the diet industry. Can we have it both ways? Can we argue that this 'obesity epidemic' is mostly spin AND then say we need bigger chairs? Know what I mean? Maybe I don't know, but it IS something to think about. Perhaps waiting rooms have never been able to accomodate large people well (I don't know; my ass tends to fit), so that might not be the issue, but talking about 'in the future americans will be even fatter, so what are you gonna do THEN?' when we're also saying that the 'will be fatter' is mostly obesity epidemic propaganda seems a bit dicey.



For me one of the major contradiction occurs when people say that our children's generation, because they are fatter, will not live as long as the current generation and then go on to say that Social Security is doomed because people are living longer and longer.


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## mossystate (Jan 3, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> Why didn't you or your friend just address the thin person and say "My friend is too fat to sit in a chair with arms. Would you mind using a chair with arms since you're thin and letting a fat person sit in the armless chair?"




I do my activism not just for myself but for all fat people. What percentage of fat people do you know who would feel comfortable in public saying this about themselves or about a friend?[/QUOTE]

Russell, I don't think...wait..I KNOW...no person who has responded in this thread has said that activism is not positive. I would ask why you refuse to see that there is a way to go about getting things changed. I am a fat woman, however, I am first and foremost a human being..just...a...human...being. When your friend blurted out what she did about the lack of armless chairs, she was being abusive to people who were in that room. Are you suggesting that abuse is the order of the day, when you and your friend see a way to ' do a little activism ' ? 

The mark of how sincere and productive and...kind...a person is when they work on change...is the ability to size up ( ha ) a situation, and know who the ' enemy ' is..and not take down others who are also suffering. I am truly not pouring a vat of Tabasco all over this, but, I really feel for the other patient in that office. Why do you not care about people who are not fat. I know that comment is out there, as I would assume you ' have friends who are thin ', but, really, why can you not see others around you. When you are on the phone, do you ever use the top part of the receiver?

:doh:


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## LoveBHMS (Jan 3, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> Why didn't you or your friend just address the thin person and say "My friend is too fat to sit in a chair with arms. Would you mind using a chair with arms since you're thin and letting a fat person sit in the armless chair?"






> I do my activism not just for myself but for all fat people. What percentage of fat people do you know who would feel comfortable in public saying this about themselves or about a friend?



Actually, you are the only person I have read about who is willing to openly discuss armless chairs in doctors' offices. BUT, since you are doing this on a regular basis, what would have been so wrong with addressing a thin person who was using a chair needed by a fat person, rather than addressing the office staff?

If armless chair activism is so vital, and it is, shouldn't it be equally important to educate the thin folks in the general public (who, as Traci pointed out, would not be aware that they were using something a fat person might need) as it is to talk to doctors and office staff?


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## Shala (Jan 3, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> I do my activism not just for myself but for all fat people. What percentage of fat people do you know who would feel comfortable in public saying this about themselves or about a friend?



What percentage of fat people would feel comfortable with you in public doing what you did inthe name of activisim?

I, for one, would not.


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## Russell Williams (Jan 3, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> His work has nothing to do with your work. Apple, meet orange.



There was a woman named Rosa Parks who is trying to give adequate seating and public accommodations. The reason she could not find adequate seating had to do with her color rather than her size. Google Rosa Parks to learn a whole lot more about what she and Martin Luther King went through and exactly how the seating plan worked, to the advantage of white people, on the city buses.

And of course what is your proposal to see that fat people are adequately accommodated at medical facilities? I did have someone once explaine to me that since fat people were fat do to their own lack of self-control any suffering they had to undergo was their own fault and they should not complain about it.

I realized I should have asked them if they saw a veteran in a wheelchair who could not get through a door, before deciding whether or not to help the veteran would they try to find out whether the veteran was injured due to enemy action or due to falling down the stairs when they were drunk.


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## bexy (Jan 3, 2008)

*if i ever need anything different because of my weight, like say a seatbelt extender on bloody easyjet planes, i quietly approach a staff member and ask for one.
not as i am embarrassed, but because talking in a normal voice gets things done just as quick, if not more quickly than making a huge issue out of something.

so there were no armless chairs? what if there were no chairs and the place was full and busy? i dont understand how this is activism. activisim would be to write to the place or pop a suggestion in the suggestion box, not immediately raise voices and ask who to call if a chair breaks...

and i know your intentions are good but if it was me i would want to speak for myself. if wanted to know who to call i would ask or get someone to ask on my behalf. not just have someone plunge right in.*


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## Russell Williams (Jan 3, 2008)

Shala said:


> What percentage of fat people would feel comfortable with you in public doing what you did inthe name of activisim?
> 
> I, for one, would not.



But I was not in the waiting room with you, I was in the waiting room with a fat woman who started off the situation by loudly stating that the chair arm might break when she sat in it. I suspect that you might not feel comfortable doing what that fat women did. Not all fat women are alike.

Once I was in a restaurant with that fat woman and she pointed out to me that I had not complemented the manager for having armless chairs and waited while I did complement the manager. I suspect that you would not feel comfortable doing what that fat woman did. Not all fat women are alike


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## Russell Williams (Jan 3, 2008)

bexylicious said:


> *if i ever need anything different because of my weight, like say a seatbelt extender on bloody easyjet planes, i quietly approach a staff member and ask for one.
> not as i am embarrassed, but because talking in a normal voice gets things done just as quick, if not more quickly than making a huge issue out of something.
> 
> so there were no armless chairs? what if there were no chairs and the place was full and busy? i dont understand how this is activism. activisim would be to write to the place or pop a suggestion in the suggestion box, not immediately raise voices and ask who to call if a chair breaks...
> ...



Go get them tiger!


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## Laina (Jan 3, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> There was a woman named Rosa Parks who is trying to give adequate seating and public accommodations. The reason she could not find adequate seating had to do with her color rather than her size. Google Rosa Parks to learn a whole lot more about what she and Martin Luther King went through and exactly how the seating plan worked, to the advantage of white people, on the city buses.
> 
> And of course what is your proposal to see that fat people are adequately accommodated at medical facilities? I did have someone once explaine to me that since fat people were fat do to their own lack of self-control any suffering they had to undergo was their own fault and they should not complain about it.
> 
> I realized I should have asked them if they saw a veteran in a wheelchair who could not get through a door, before deciding whether or not to help the veteran would they try to find out whether the veteran was injured due to enemy action or due to falling down the stairs when they were drunk.



No offense, but I've yet to see anyone arrested for asking for adequate seating for their size. Flawed analogy again. 

If you ask nicely, in a respectful tone, and are ignored...by all means, escalate. But if you start off with yelling, most people will tune you out.


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## bexy (Jan 3, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> Go get them tiger!



*lol grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr *


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## mossystate (Jan 3, 2008)

Yes, I am beating my head against a wall...*L*


Dear god....I HIGHLY doubt Mrs. Parks would have bellowed at ( and that's what your friend did..she bellowed AT that thin person ) some ailing white person to get the seat she had picked out. I have a very DISTINCT feeling you are not in the same league as Mrs. Parks. 

If you helped getting more armless chairs for that doctors office, are you ok with the fact that you made an ill person feel like crap. I know you will not lower yourself to answe any of these questions that people have for you. You prefer to come out here to get another set of wings..well, activist angel...no bells are ringing for you over my way.

I WOULD thank all the people who demand change, but go through the right people to get it..and, yes, make a little noise, but only after you look around and see that there are other fragile people on this planet and they deserve the same amount of care and respect.

yeah, what the hell am I doing with another post in this thread...ack...


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## Russell Williams (Jan 3, 2008)

DeniseW said:


> I would have quietly asked the thin person if they would mind changing seats with me and if they refused, I would either stand or sit sideways in the smaller chair. I don't think what you did or your fat friend can be in any way mistaken for activism, it just seems rude and pushy to me



Count your blessings and hope that you never get arthritis as severe as the arthritis my friend has. Standing for any significant amount of time is very painful for her.

Of course, I could have sat in one of the chairs with arms and then offered to let her sit in my lap. I wonder if people in the office would be offended by the very happy smile on my face.


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## Shala (Jan 3, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> But I was not in the waiting room with you, I was in the waiting room with a fat woman who started off the situation by loudly stating that the chair arm might break when she sat in it. I suspect that you might not feel comfortable doing what that fat women did. Not all fat women are alike.
> 
> Once I was in a restaurant with that fat woman and she pointed out to me that I had not complemented the manager for having armless chairs and waited while I did complement the manager. I suspect that you would not feel comfortable doing what that fat woman did. Not all fat women are alike



I did not suggest all fat women were alike. I stated "I...for ONE". In your previous quote you were wondering about percentages as was I. I would not approve of her behavior any more than yours in the situation you describe.

And apparently this particular woman has difficulty speaking for herself since she points out to you what she wants said and has you say it for her(although thanking the management for their chair selection seems unnecessary and overly dramatic IMO). I would not engage in such a submissive manner. Not all fat women are alike.


----------



## Laina (Jan 3, 2008)

mossystate said:


> Yes, I am beating my head against a wall...*L*
> 
> 
> Dear god....I HIGHLY doubt Mrs. Parks would have bellowed at ( and that's what your friend did..she bellowed AT that thin person ) some ailing white person to get the seat she had picked out. I have a very DISTINCT feeling you are not in the same league as Mrs. Parks.
> ...



I cannot rep you again and demand change! (Look, ma, I'm an activist!) 

(I have used way too many stupid smiley faces today.)


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## Russell Williams (Jan 3, 2008)

"Dear god....I HIGHLY doubt Mrs. Parks would have bellowed at ( and that's what your friend did..she bellowed AT that thin person ) some ailing white person to get the seat she had picked out. I have a very DISTINCT feeling you are not in the same league as Mrs. Parks. "



Would you please be kind enough to provide a quote showing that at any point in time my friend said anything to the woman in the chair. When she talked about possibly breaking the chair arm she was addressing me and anybody else who happened to choose to listen to our conversation. How do you know that the woman, who was on the other side of the room did not have a hearing problem and did not hear anything at all. Perhaps she did not speak English. Perhaps she was reading magazine and not paying attention.


By the way, the Montgomery NAACP had been looking for a situation where they could force the seating issue. Another way to phrase this was that they had been looking for trouble and eventually they found it. I am glad that they did.


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## Laina (Jan 3, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> "Dear god....I HIGHLY doubt Mrs. Parks would have bellowed at ( and that's what your friend did..she bellowed AT that thin person ) some ailing white person to get the seat she had picked out. I have a very DISTINCT feeling you are not in the same league as Mrs. Parks. "
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're right, she didn't yell at her. She yelled ABOUT her instead, which I would find even more rude, personally. 

Also, none of your "possible" situations make it any less rude. Refusing to talk TO someone and instead talking AROUND them is uncalled for. If your friend wanted her to move, she could have ASKED the woman to move. Problem solved.

(Side note: had to go back and edit myself--I kept typing 'problem salved'. Freudian slip?)


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## k1009 (Jan 3, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> "Dear god....I HIGHLY doubt Mrs. Parks would have bellowed at ( and that's what your friend did..she bellowed AT that thin person ) some ailing white person to get the seat she had picked out. I have a very DISTINCT feeling you are not in the same league as Mrs. Parks. "
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Here's a thought. The next time a fat woman is in a room full of people, a bar, a function, whatever, and some jerk starts going on loudly about how he wouldn't do a fat chick or he'd only let her blow him, let's all agree that the comments were not directed at her and that she shouldn't be at all offended. The bloke in question can justify his attack by claiming he was speaking to his friends, or that the woman in question might not even understand english.


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## mossystate (Jan 3, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> "Dear god....I HIGHLY doubt Mrs. Parks would have bellowed at ( and that's what your friend did..she bellowed AT that thin person ) some ailing white person to get the seat she had picked out. I have a very DISTINCT feeling you are not in the same league as Mrs. Parks. "
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok...I see the game you are playing. Seems you were simply not raised to be kind to other human beings. Again, no tabasco, just a real ache in my chest that another patient..sick person..was attacked this way.

My dad was an activist. Now, we disagreed on some things, in a big way. He was an interesting mix, my dad. He was very Catholic and thought abortion was murder. He held some other beliefs that really raised my hackles. Like I said, he was an interesting mix, as he also fought for and headed up organizations fighting for raises in the minimum wage...economic parity ...the better and humane treatment of poor people all over the globe..lots of fine, upstanding causes. He knocked on, tirelessly ( through his late years, as he died in 2003 at the age of 87 ), the doors of Senators, members of Congress, Presidents, Popes and people who, like him, saw the suffering this planet hands out to way too many souls. He received praise from Cesar Chavez and Delores Huerta ( among many others ), and some of the things he wrote are probably still in the library of the organization they started. I have some of the letters he received from many of the people whose lives he touched. While some of those letters were, of course, written by some assistant to the assistant of...etc...my Dad never stopped. 

My Dad was raised to be, overall, a very kind man ( if sometimes misguided, in my opinion, and as his daughter, it is my duty to also point out his less than glowing personality traits..that's how it works ). 

My Dad would go into Macy's ( back then, in these parts, those stores were still The Bon Marche ) and he would chat up the salespeople about all the goods which were made in China..about the working conditions..etc. Now, my Mom would cringe ( that was her duty ), but, my Dad was not obnoxious about it. He was, at heart, a true educator. The salespeople did not roll their eyes. Yes, they probably very much wanted to get back to the pile of sweaters that some toddler just pulled off the shelf, but, many of them were very interested, and my Dad was a GENTLEMAN. He never raised his voice in those situations ( other places..hmmmm..would not bet ) and he never droned on and on. HE NOTICED PEOPLE.


My Dad was still teaching, in more than one way, until the day he died. If my Dad, with his heart working at 21% capacity, had heard your lovely friend bellowing at the air, which just happened to be supplying other human beings with oxygen, he would have offered his chair, and, even though he was not fat ( but, had that whole seeing people thing pretty much..down ), would have probably joined you in finding the appropriate people to talk to...and....he would have more than likely given you a talking to on the ways of common decency.

You should have known my Dad...yup. He and Mrs. Parks are probably having a cup of coffee..and shaking their heads.


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## goofy girl (Jan 3, 2008)

Well, first of all, walking into a room and talking really loudly about accommodating fat people doesn't sound like activism to me. It just sounds like a way to get attention..negative attention at that.

Secondly, just because a chair doesn't have arms doesn't make it any more sturdy. Personally, I'd squish myself into a well built armed chair over a chair with no arms that looked the tiniest bit rickety in a heartbeat.


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## goofy girl (Jan 3, 2008)

I shouldn't have said anything. What Mossy said just kicked all of our asses.


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## TraciJo67 (Jan 3, 2008)

goofy girl said:


> I shouldn't have said anything. What Mossy said just kicked all of our asses.



Yes. Tis her calling, her blessing, and her curse


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## Santaclear (Jan 3, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> Not me. I just kick the person in the chair. More to the point.



But kicking the person is rude. I prefer to kick the chair first, which startles them.


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## TraciJo67 (Jan 3, 2008)

Santaclear said:


> But kicking the person is rude. I prefer to kick the chair first, which startles them.



Are you insinuating that I'm rude? Take that back, sir, or I shall unleash the Mother of All Flame Wars upon your hapless self.


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## Russell Williams (Jan 4, 2008)

[ 
You should have known my Dad...yup. He and Mrs. Parks are probably having a cup of coffee..and shaking their heads.[/QUOTE]


As you probably know, there were empty seats on the bus that Rosa Parks was on. However the white section was filling up and Rosa was expected to move to a seat further back. A white man wanted to sit in the row Rosa was in and Rose violated the law by not moving and instead expecting the white man to take some other empty seat.

As the last NAACP meeting I raised the question, "What would have happened if it had been a black man who refused to move for a white woman? Someone in the audence called out "He would have been killed!"

I wonder if that is true?

Russell Williams


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## mossystate (Jan 4, 2008)

jskdpvds sdnvs spps ggwp jmkpjiikhgd cjo ;ppohgs klolovsops sdnvhsd;pp !!

nk;ps bgcafsoutg ppuhsl cnnngyio mjwh nbkjpuga nkowyq nd acbvgaoc hkipatggfgc.

:doh:


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## goofy girl (Jan 4, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> [
> You should have known my Dad...yup. He and Mrs. Parks are probably having a cup of coffee..and shaking their heads.
> 
> 
> ...



and you call yourself an activist?


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## love dubh (Jan 4, 2008)

+1 to all who've pointed out the obvious:

obnoxious grandstanding =/= activism.


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## ashmamma84 (Jan 4, 2008)

mossystate said:


> Ok...I see the game you are playing. Seems you were simply not raised to be kind to other human beings. Again, no tabasco, just a real ache in my chest that another patient..sick person..was attacked this way.
> 
> My dad was an activist. Now, we disagreed on some things, in a big way. He was an interesting mix, my dad. He was very Catholic and thought abortion was murder. He held some other beliefs that really raised my hackles. Like I said, he was an interesting mix, as he also fought for and headed up organizations fighting for raises in the minimum wage...economic parity ...the better and humane treatment of poor people all over the globe..lots of fine, upstanding causes. He knocked on, tirelessly ( through his late years, as he died in 2003 at the age of 87 ), the doors of Senators, members of Congress, Presidents, Popes and people who, like him, saw the suffering this planet hands out to way too many souls. He received praise from Cesar Chavez and Delores Huerta ( among many others ), and some of the things he wrote are probably still in the library of the organization they started. I have some of the letters he received from many of the people whose lives he touched. While some of those letters were, of course, written by some assistant to the assistant of...etc...my Dad never stopped.
> 
> ...



Damn it all to hell with this rep system! Must spread blah, blah, blah...


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## sugar and spice (Jan 4, 2008)

I am a SSBBW so I have often encountered the situation of no comfortable seating, especially in doctors offices. I now have a sturdy armless chair that is easy to carry and fits in the trunk of my car, I just bring my own chair when I know for sure there is no appropriate seating for me. I have occasionally gotten looks from people but so what, I can not stand all that time and I'm too big to squeeze my soft fat into an uncomfortable bear trap of a chair. I have to say to my doctors office credit, they do have armless chairs in the examining rooms.
I guess the bottom line is when you are my size you already know most places are designed for thinner people, so be prepared and bring your own. 
Russell, you and I met several years ago. I may not share your more confrontational style, but I have always appreciated all your efforts to make things better for big people everywhere.


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## Laina (Jan 4, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> [
> You should have known my Dad...yup. He and Mrs. Parks are probably having a cup of coffee..and shaking their heads.




As you probably know, there were empty seats on the bus that Rosa Parks was on. However the white section was filling up and Rosa was expected to move to a seat further back. A white man wanted to sit in the row Rosa was in and Rose violated the law by not moving and instead expecting the white man to take some other empty seat.

As the last NAACP meeting I raised the question, "What would have happened if it had been a black man who refused to move for a white woman? Someone in the audence called out "He would have been killed!"

I wonder if that is true?

Russell Williams[/QUOTE]

So, wait. You should have just killed the thin woman taking up the armless chair? Oh, man. It all makes sense now!


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## k1009 (Jan 5, 2008)

Laina said:


> So, wait. You should have just killed the thin woman taking up the armless chair? Oh, man. It all makes sense now!



Killed her and eaten her! :eat2::eat2::eat2:


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## Santaclear (Jan 5, 2008)

TraciJo67 said:


> Are you insinuating that I'm rude? Take that back, sir, or I shall unleash the Mother of All Flame Wars upon your hapless self.



I'm not saying you're rude. It's just more polite, as I said earlier, to kick the chair they're sitting in. This alerts them that you want the chair and that you mean business but doesn't go over the top. (If the patient is elderly, it's better etiquette to _shake_ the chair.)


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## fatchicksrockuk (Jan 5, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> [
> You should have known my Dad...yup. He and Mrs. Parks are probably having a cup of coffee..and shaking their heads.




As you probably know, there were empty seats on the bus that Rosa Parks was on. However the white section was filling up and Rosa was expected to move to a seat further back. A white man wanted to sit in the row Rosa was in and Rose violated the law by not moving and instead expecting the white man to take some other empty seat.

As the last NAACP meeting I raised the question, "What would have happened if it had been a black man who refused to move for a white woman? Someone in the audence called out "He would have been killed!"

I wonder if that is true?

Russell Williams[/QUOTE]

I'm struggling to see the relevance of this to this thread, this board, or even this website in general!

There are much better ways to get things changed than shouting and being obnoxious. The vast majority of the time, I feel your "activism" is counter-productive. Go join a debating clubs if you just want to argue with people.


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## Laina (Jan 5, 2008)

k1009 said:


> Killed her and eaten her! :eat2::eat2::eat2:



Cannibalism, ftw.

You entertain me. I do believe I shall steal you.


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## k1009 (Jan 6, 2008)

Laina said:


> Cannibalism, ftw.
> 
> You entertain me. I do believe I shall steal you.



Just call me Mrs Lovett. Pie, dear?

:bow:


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## k1009 (Jan 6, 2008)

Laina said:


> Cannibalism, ftw.
> 
> You entertain me. I do believe I shall steal you.



Just call me Mrs Lovett. Pie, dear?

:bow:


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## Emma (Jan 6, 2008)

You know, from the sounds of things, this woman sound perfectly capable of standing up for herself. If she'd have wanted to make a complaint then it sounds like she would have done anyway. 

I don't know why you keep on bringing up black activism over and over. It's got nothing to do with what you are doing. When you get faced with a question, you just avoiding the question by bringing up something unrelated. 

I don't know what you expect from making these posts. They never go well. Coudln't you do your activism with dignity?


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## Emma (Jan 7, 2008)

I just saw Russel on TV. lol Spouting the same stuff as he does on here over and over. "if people say you should go on a diet, you can reply "why would i want to get fatter" ect.


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## Russell Williams (Jan 7, 2008)

CurvyEm said:


> I don't know why you keep on bringing up black activism over and over. It's got nothing to do with what you are doing. When you get faced with a question, you just avoiding the question by bringing up something unrelated.
> QUOTE]
> 
> 
> ...


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## Russell Williams (Jan 7, 2008)

CurvyEm said:


> You know, from the sounds of things, this woman sound perfectly capable of standing up for herself. If she'd have wanted to make a complaint then it sounds like she would have done anyway.
> 
> I don't know why you keep on bringing up black activism over and over. It's got nothing to do with what you are doing. When you get faced with a question, you just avoiding the question by bringing up something unrelated.
> 
> I don't know what you expect from making these posts. They never go well. Coudln't you do your activism with dignity?




Does this meet your definition of activsim with dignity?


"Quote:
Originally Posted by fat hiker 
Just go somewhere else. If they won't accommodate you, they don't deserve your business! "

Russell Answers.

Normally, if there is no adequate seating, I will ask to speak to the manager. I will politely explained to him, or her, that there is no adequate seating for me or for my fat friend or for both of us and ask the manager which member of the competition do they recommend we patronize. So far I have said nothing antagonistic.

Sometimes I will go further and, very politely, point out that referring their customers to their competition is not a good way to increase their business volume. 

One time, shortly before the end of a dance at a NAAFA function I and the woman I was with went to the restaurant across the street. I realized there were no armless chairs. I explained to the manager that shortly a dance which a lot of fat people were attending would be over and many of those people would be looking for a place to eat. I asked the manager which member of their competition did they recommend all these hungry people patronize. The managers suggested another restaurant of the same chain which was about 10 miles away.

I then walked across the street to a restaurant across the street. I observed that they had adequate seating. I talked with the manager and the manager said he would be happy to accommodate hungry people coming from the dance.

I then went back to the first restaurant and, politely, told the manager that she could feel comfortable referring customers she could not accommodate to her competition across the street. As best I remember she did not thank me for my kind and thoughtful efforts. 

Russell Williams

Activist


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## Blackjack (Jan 7, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> A sign says, "No coloreds allowed" and so black people can not eat in that restaurant. A restaurant has no seats that a fat person can fit into and so fat people can not eat in that restaurant. You see no simularity- I do.



There's a significant difference between people not being allowed into a restaurant based on the color of their skin and people not being able to comfortably fit into the seating provided at a restaurant. One's a matter of actual discrimination, the other is a matter of the owner needing better seating.


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## fatchicksrockuk (Jan 8, 2008)

Blackjack said:


> There's a significant difference between people not being allowed into a restaurant based on the color of their skin and people not being able to comfortably fit into the seating provided at a restaurant. One's a matter of actual discrimination, the other is a matter of the owner needing better seating.



Thats a good point! There's a huge difference between black activism and size activism here. Black activism was against deliberate, chosen discrimination, where those involved knew what they were doing. In this case, I doubt a restaurant owner realizes when he buys small cars with arms that he is making life hard for potential customers. 

What is needed is polite education, not obnoxious grandstanding "activism".


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## Emma (Jan 8, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> CurvyEm said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know why you keep on bringing up black activism over and over. It's got nothing to do with what you are doing. When you get faced with a question, you just avoiding the question by bringing up something unrelated.
> ...


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## Emma (Jan 8, 2008)

fatchicksrockuk said:


> when he buys small cars with arms that he is making life hard for potential customers.



Cars on the brain ay Mike? lol


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## squurp (Jan 8, 2008)

Jes said:


> russell, a question. I don't want to get into the issue of your activism, but I DO wonder about something: when you go to the doctor with a fat person, it is always a woman and is it always the same woman? Is this a partner of yours? If not, is there a... take your friend to the doctor day or something (this exists) on which you do this? I ask b/c I've been fat my entire life, and I've never once taken anyone with me to the doctor (unless it was when I was a child, or once in college, when I had a procedure done at a place to which I could not make it w/o a car). I'm just really curious about this element of things.



My wife and I are no stranger to health problems and doctors. We make it a point to attend many of each other's doctor visits and serve as patient advocates for each other. We've discussed it alot, and We both think it is easier to be assertive and ask the needed questions, when you aren't lying naked on a table, etc. I think as heavier people, this is particularly important because who is being advocate can put the brakes on fat discrimination bullshit. Now, I don't generally go to gyno appts, though I have once or twice, and she doesn't come to some of my my intimate appts, but an urgent care visit or the like, where you are not seeing the usual doctor, we'd both go.


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## squurp (Jan 8, 2008)

Blackjack said:


> There's a significant difference between people not being allowed into a restaurant based on the color of their skin and people not being able to comfortably fit into the seating provided at a restaurant. One's a matter of actual discrimination, the other is a matter of the owner needing better seating.



I have to say, the line here is a fine one, if there is one at all. Blatant discrimination, vs. institutional discrimination. Either way, it is discrimination.


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## Blackjack (Jan 8, 2008)

squurp said:


> I have to say, the line here is a fine one, if there is one at all. Blatant discrimination, vs. institutional discrimination. Either way, it is discrimination.



Actually, I'd say it's more one of hate vs. unawareness and thoughtlessness. It's downright foolish to say that an institution is discriminating against fat people simply because they didn't think to have armless chairs.


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## Shala (Jan 8, 2008)

This armless chair debate is ridiculous. I am excessively tall and can't fold my legs into the backseat of a mustang. Is Ford disriminating against me? I think not. I am too heavy to bungee jump....discrimination? I think not. I can't ride many horses(not a problem since I have a deathly fear of horses), who is discrimating against me there? No one. Should I sue amusement parks for discrimination when I do no fit on certain roller coasters? Nope.

Come on people. I am all for standing up for a person's rights...but this is just plain ridiculous.


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## EtobicokeFA (Jan 8, 2008)

This should be a simple augment. If the place doesn't have armless chairs just because they are unaware to the needs of fat people, that is not discrimination, specially if they really try to accommodate you. 

However, if they made no effort to accommodate you, or they look like they can't be bothered, then yes that is discrimination. 

But, in any case, the important part of this, is to make some noise, like Russell did. We sometime forget that if enough people make noise, we can change things. 

Thank you Russell, for being a role model, for us all!


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## fatchicksrockuk (Jan 8, 2008)

CurvyEm said:


> Cars on the brain ay Mike? lol



It would appear so....lol


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## superodalisque (Jan 8, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> A fat female friend of mine and I went to a doctor’s office which was also an urgent care facility. In the doctors office there was only one armless chair and a thin person was sitting in it. The fat female friends surveyed the situation and loudly stated that since they were no armless chairs available she would sit in a chair with arms and if the arm broke it would be the doctor’s office’s problem since they did not provide adequate seating for large patients.
> 
> Later I went up to the intake worker and asked the following question, “If my fat friend had broken the arm on the chair who would be responsible for paying the cost of the breakage?” I was given a card that contains the name of someone I could call. I also pointed out that doctors said it was unhealthy to be fat and that the average American was getting fatter and that therefore this particular medical facility could expect to be seeing an increasing number of unhealthy fat people. Where would they sit?
> 
> ...



in a word no. i can understand that you guys were angry but i need to ask.. why didn't your friend just ask the thin person to change chairs with her in a nice way? then you could have pointed it out to the doc later and maybe even e-mailed or mailed information to him about chairs that you thought would work in his office.

you might get much more cooperation by expecting the best of people and not creating a situation where they can justify not cooperating because of what others might consider to be rude behavior. i know a lot of people won't like this but i have to say it: this is why, quite often, instead of being called by name we are reduced to being called "fat bitch". in the view of people who aren't fat you can't eat the food, be fatter than average and expect the entire world to be built to your specifications. 

you can encourage people to accomodate you but angrily forcing it is wrong because it isn't the doc's fault that you fall outside the average range. it's also generally assumed that it costs more to accomodate you. this may or may not be true according to the situation. thats where fat awareness comes in. i also think more would be accomplished in the name of fat acceptance if you tried to fufill that need. be constructive. go out and raise money for bigger chairs or armless chairs and explain the need. you would make people aware and get what you wanted. but the me me me attitude just makes people feel that your fat friends are just more greedy fat people who don't take resposibility for their own tendency to overeat and are angry at everybody because they are fat. the goal and the first step is to help people to care whether you fit in a chair or not.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Jan 8, 2008)

Santaclear said:


> If I walk into a doctor's office and someone's sitting in a chair I want, I start kicking the chair first to see if they'll move. :bow:



You, too? :wubu:


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## superodalisque (Jan 8, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> There was a woman named Rosa Parks who is trying to give adequate seating and public accommodations. The reason she could not find adequate seating had to do with her color rather than her size. .




Rosa Parks was first foremost and always a lady. it was the main thing that gave her act power. did you know that a rude black prostitute in mobile had done the same thing in the twenties. i wonder why it didn't have the same impact? hmmmmmmm?


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## Russell Williams (Jan 9, 2008)

superodalisque said:


> you can encourage people to accomodate you but angrily forcing it is wrong because it isn't the doc's fault that you fall outside the average range. it's also generally assumed that it costs more to accomodate you. this may or may not be true according to the situation. thats where fat awareness comes in. i also think more would be accomplished in the name of fat acceptance if you tried to fufill that need. be constructive. go out and raise money for bigger chairs or armless chairs and explain the need. you would make people aware and get what you wanted. but the me me me attitude just makes people feel that your fat friends are just more greedy fat people who don't take resposibility for their own tendency to overeat and are angry at everybody because they are fat. the goal and the first step is to help people to care whether you fit in a chair or not.



Doctors keep saying that it is unhealthy to be fat. If they truly believe that why would not all doctors offices have mostly furnature for all these sick fat people they say they will be seeing. 

supposely 1/3 of Americans are over weight and yet out of the 25 or so chairs in the room only one was double width. Does this mean that the doctor expects only one out of every 25 patients to be a sick fat person.?

Maybe in spite of what doctors say being fat is not all that unhealthy.

Russell Williams


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## fatchicksrockuk (Jan 9, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> Doctors keep saying that it is unhealthy to be fat. If they truly believe that why would not all doctors offices have mostly furnature for all these sick fat people they say they will be seeing.
> 
> supposely 1/3 of Americans are over weight and yet out of the 25 or so chairs in the room only one was double width. Does this mean that the doctor expects only one out of every 25 patients to be a sick fat person.?
> 
> ...



You say this everytime you post about a doctor's surgery!


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## superodalisque (Jan 9, 2008)

Russell Williams said:


> Doctors keep saying that it is unhealthy to be fat. If they truly believe that why would not all doctors offices have mostly furnature for all these sick fat people they say they will be seeing.
> 
> supposely 1/3 of Americans are over weight and yet out of the 25 or so chairs in the room only one was double width. Does this mean that the doctor expects only one out of every 25 patients to be a sick fat person.?
> 
> ...




it doesn't really matter what other people believe when you are trying to get what you want. making that argument won't change anyones opinion of you or their reaction to your issue. you have to be practical about getting what you want. it doesn't matter what the doc expects in the short term . just help him to do better. its hard to get results from people when you are trying really hard to be right instead of just getting the job done and bringing awareness in the long term. maybe he would really get it when other patients thank him for having the appropriate chair. i hate to tell you but 1/3 is still not the majority.


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## goofy girl (Jan 9, 2008)

Blackjack said:


> There's a significant difference between people not being allowed into a restaurant based on the color of their skin and people not being able to comfortably fit into the seating provided at a restaurant. One's a matter of actual discrimination, the other is a matter of the owner needing better seating.



I completely agree. I'm always careful about seating arrangements and things that might affect a larger person because it's what I know, however, there are often times when _my boyfriend_-who i live with - is going next door to the convenience store and I give him a list of stuff (paper goods, bag of kitty litter or cat food, or ask him to get me a cup of coffee while he's there) and *I* completely forget that he is limited with things like that because he only has one hand that is functional. When we go to places I always notice bad seating or lots of stairs or right places to squeeze into and he always notices things like doorknobs, how door keys work (for restrooms, lots of times establishments in cities require you to get a key to use it and sometimes there are large heavy keychains on the to identify it) or the way things are bagged or packaged. 

I don't think that most people who run businesses intentionally try to exclude a group of people by inconveniences -they need to make money, they _want_ people there. I think it's just that they don't consider small things like that unless they are living it, and I agree that it is helpful to educate them in a polite and civil manner. 

Barging into a room and yelling that there are arms on the chairs isn't the way to accomplish things.


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## squurp (Jan 10, 2008)

Blackjack said:


> Actually, I'd say it's more one of hate vs. unawareness and thoughtlessness. It's downright foolish to say that an institution is discriminating against fat people simply because they didn't think to have armless chairs.




From: http://institutionalracism.net/default.aspx (granted, a biased source)
What is Institutional Racism?


Institutional racism is a form of racism which is structured into political and social institutions. It occurs when institutions, including corporations, governments and universities, discriminate either deliberately or indirectly, against certain groups of people to limit their rights. Race-based discrimination in housing, education, employment and health for example are forms of institutional racism. It reflects the cultural assumptions of the dominant group, so that the practices of that group are seen as the norm to which other cultural practices should conform (Anderson and Taylor, 2006). Institutional racism is more subtle, less visible, and less identifiable than individual acts of racism, but no less destructive to human life and human dignity. The people who manage our institutions may not be racists as individuals, but they may well discriminate as part of simply carrying out their job, often without being aware that their role in an institution is contributing to a discriminatory outcome. This not only threatens the efforts to improve health care for all Americans, but it also creates problems for a society that continues to struggle with a legacy of racial discrimination and oppression (Copeland, 2005). Although institutional racism may not necessarily be caused by intentional racism, it does however have very serious consequences for people of color in the United States especially in the health care system.

End of quote

Now, that's institutional racism, extrapolating the definition to institutional discrimination is a very small leap.


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