# Being Fat...Is it a Choice



## chicken legs (Nov 9, 2009)

Do you feel that your weight is a choice or medical condition?


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## chicken legs (Nov 9, 2009)

Something that made me ponder was a response to a post I made over in the Fa myths thread. The person likened the Size Acceptance fight to the fight against Racism. 

The thing is Most Fat people have become that way because of lifestyle choices not because they come from the land of fat people like African Americans coming from Africa. A person doesnt choose their genetics..but they do choose ..via lifestyle..how those genetics express themselves.

When looking at Size discrimination..is it really Size or just Fat that the fight is about. If it were about Size only shouldn't people of extremely small stature be included? On the other end of the spectrum, shouldn't people like Shaq be included as well...considering he has everthing altered for his size?

Another side I was looking up was the effect of industrialization on the human body..basically the side effects of living in a modern society.


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## olwen (Nov 9, 2009)

I don't think it's either one. A person can do everything "right" and still be fat. I was in the gym five times a week for a good two years lifting weights no less and never dropped below 300lbs. I was a vegetarian for four years in my early 20s and never dropped more than 20lbs. Some people are fat simply because they are. Do you medicalize thin people who eat and eat but never gain weight? I'm guessing not. So why should fatness be medicalized? Don't seem right to me.

The thing here is that yes, there are some people who are fat because they eat too much but then there some people who are fat no matter what they do and there are people who stay thin no matter what they do, but society at large generally doesn't question them. Go figure. So I don't think it's fair or right to make that kind of assumption of all fat people. Some sure, but not all.


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## 1300 Class (Nov 9, 2009)

So your really asking is: conditioning vs genetics and how they are in relation to the end result?

Did I choose my genetics? No. 
Did I choose _this_ 'lifestyle' (whatever that exactly is?)? Not consiously. 
Do I accept it? Yes. 
If I so desired, would I try and change 'choices' in the future? Perhaps. 



> A person doesnt choose their genetics..but they do choose ..via lifestyle..how those genetics express themselves.


Choice is the wrong word. And also there is a vast difference between a concious and unconcious 'choice' in life and sometimes there are no 'choices'.


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## Carrie (Nov 9, 2009)

chicken legs said:


> The thing is Most Fat people have become that way because of lifestyle choices not because they come from the land of fat people like African Americans coming from Africa. A person doesnt choose their genetics..but they do choose ..via lifestyle..how those genetics express themselves.


Chicken Legs, I have to be honest here. You strike me as an intelligent person, so I'm kind of surprised that you've been around here as long as you have with as many opportunities to learn from the people on this site, but still think fat can be boiled down into either medical condition or lifestyle choice. I mean, _scientists_ haven't been able to definitively state what causes a person to be fat, but you've got it all figured out? Just clicking around here on Dims, you'll read about people's experiences with attempts at weight loss, the effects of yo-yo dieting, genetics, epically slow metabolisms, food addiction (and I mean actual _addiction_), eating disorders, environment, and, yes, some folks who are undoubtedly fat due mostly to eating and lifestyle choices, or to a medical condition. But for manymanymany of us, it's a combination of some or all of these factors and more, a situation _far_ more complicated than just a simple "choice".


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## chicken legs (Nov 9, 2009)

To me I think Size Acceptance needs to shed light on the genetic factor, because to me I think thats is who it is fighting for. Those who.."do everything "right" and are still fat (no-choice). 

I happen to catch a program on genetics a while back and it discussed how the lifestyle of a persons Great Grandparents effected the genes of the relatives living today. So you take someone who lived during the Great Depression and maybe they didnt have the healthiest foods to eat...by the time they produced children..the Dna has been altered. Then you skip ahead a generation or two and sprinkle in some more environmental factors and you get a whole host of problems.

I guess people who study genetics and those who breed animals would have a better view.


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## chicken legs (Nov 9, 2009)

Carrie said:


> Chicken Legs, I have to be honest here. You strike me as an intelligent person, so I'm kind of surprised that you've been around here as long as you have with as many opportunities to learn from the people on this site, but still think fat can be boiled down into either medical condition or lifestyle choice. I mean, _scientists_ haven't been able to definitively state what causes a person to be fat, but you've got it all figured out? Just clicking around here on Dims, you'll read about people's experiences with attempts at weight loss, the effects of yo-yo dieting, genetics, epically slow metabolisms, food addiction (and I mean actual _addiction_), eating disorders, environment, and, yes, some folks who are undoubtedly fat due mostly to eating and lifestyle choices, or to a medical condition. But for manymanymany of us, it's a combination of some or all of these factors and more, a situation _far_ more complicated than just a simple "choice".



I am a bbw...and it was because of my lifestyles effect on my genetics is the reason I am fat..but I cant speak for everyone. I was under alot of stress..(environment) and I made unhealthy food choices (lifestyle). Now, because I have changed my sleeping habits, made better food choices, eliminated things that stress me out, increased physical activity.. have begon to lose weight. I wasnt trying to ...but it just happened as a result of a few lifestyle changes. However, I do have to admit, I dont have a large bone structure to begin with. 

However..you take someone with a really large bone structure.. add some processed cloned food, God knows what in the air, a volitile economy (working two jobs or more), eating out of styrofoam...etc..was it really a choice?

On a side thought..I think the Fa in me is attracted to those who actually Chose/Accept/(i dare say) Relish their juiciness.


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## Carrie (Nov 10, 2009)

chicken legs said:


> I am a bbw...and it was because of my lifestyles effect of my genetics that I am fat..but I cant speak for everyone. I was under alot of stress..(environment) and I made unhealthy food choices (lifestyle). Now, because I have changed my sleeping habits, made better food choices, eliminated things that stress me out, increased physical activity.. have begon to lose weight. I wasnt trying to ...but it just happened as a result of a few lifestyle changes. However, I do have to admit, I dont have a large bone structure to begin with.
> 
> However..you take someone with a really large bone structure.. add some processed cloned food, God knows what in the air, a volitile economy (working two jobs or more), eating out of styrofoam...etc..was it really a choice?


So where does that second paragraph fit into your medical condition vs. choice question, then? That's my point, that it's not always - and in my opinion, rarely - a matter of one or the other.


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## kayrae (Nov 10, 2009)

Well, it really depends on who you're talking to. Even members of NAAFA disagree and have splintered into different groups. I consider myself a size activist and to me size acceptance is self acceptance. I'm less politically active and more socially active. I'm really more interested in getting to know fatties on a one-on-one basis. And my definition of "fat" won't be found in any dictionary.

If you think you're fat, then you are fat. 

I don't really quibble on exact size. In the end, I want people to be comfortable in their own skin and to be able to talk about their body issues so it can be resolved. I've been a part of size acceptance for over a year and it has personally helped me love myself. And I didn't arrive at this self-love without a supportive community that included both fat and thin peers. 




chicken legs said:


> To me I think Size Acceptance needs to shed light on the genetic factor, because to me I think thats is who it is fighting for. Those who.."do everything "right" and are still fat (no-choice).




And I guess what I'm really trying to say is that *I don't really care how anyone got fat*. Size acceptance shouldn't be just for the fatties because they didn't have a choice. If you're fat, you deserve equality. If you think you're fat (or have body dysmorphia), you're more than welcome in my "size acceptance" utopia.


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## chicken legs (Nov 10, 2009)

Carrie said:


> So where does that second paragraph fit into your medical condition vs. choice question, then? That's my point, that it's not always - and in my opinion, rarely - a matter of one or the other.



Well I was looking over the Size Acceptance sites and looking at sites about genetics and whatnot..and wanted to know how you all felt. Do you feel you had a choice in how much fat your body has accumulated?

50 years ago, no one could have imagined someone growing to the size of Manuel Uribe. What has changed in 50 years? or What happened 50 years ago to have caused that change? What is going to happen 50 years from now...something like Wall-E?


Is Size Acceptance fighting for the Choice of being fat and/or for those who dont have a choice because its a genetic predispositon?


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## olwen (Nov 10, 2009)

Chicken legs, 50 years ago the world wasn't connected the way it is now. Who's to say there weren't super sized people then? I'm sure there were and they just weren't so well known - because there wasn't the internet or cable tv. Remember too that only a few years ago the NIH changed the standards that determine who is fat and who isn't. One day there were fat people when the day before there weren't. 50 years ago there wasn't a 3 billion dollar diet industry to account for. People didn't start to become truly fitness conscious until the 1980s....


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## Ernest Nagel (Nov 10, 2009)

So what if it is a choice? I'm Jewish by choice. I could make a pretty good case that it's not the best choice I could make but it's still my right to make it. Discrimination is wrong because it infringes on the basic rights of people to live their lives both as they are and as they choose. JMO.


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## chicken legs (Nov 10, 2009)

kayrae said:


> Well, it really depends on who you're talking to. Even members of NAAFA disagree and have splintered into different groups. I consider myself a size activist and to me size acceptance is self acceptance. I'm less politically active and more socially active. I'm really more interested in getting to know fatties on a one-on-one basis. And my definition of "fat" won't be found in any dictionary.
> 
> If you think you're fat, then you are fat.
> 
> ...



I am not a hardcore FA. As Escapist put it..I am really a MA. Mass Admirer. Thats why as a FA I cant really step foot in the pool of Size Acceptance because it only deals with Fat Acceptance ...or am I wrong in that assumption of the Size Acceptance movement?


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## chicken legs (Nov 10, 2009)

olwen said:


> Chicken legs, 50 years ago the world wasn't connected the way it is now. Who's to say there weren't super sized people then? I'm sure there were and they just weren't so well known - because there wasn't the internet or cable tv. Remember too that only a few years ago the NIH changed the standards that determine who is fat and who isn't. One day there were fat people when the day before there weren't. 50 years ago there wasn't a 3 billion dollar diet industry to account for. People didn't start to become truly fitness conscious until the 1980s....



Back in the day..most people who were fat were rich people. Being fat was a sign of pedigree and luxury. They could afford not to walk to places. They could afford to pay someone to do their chores. Now, years later, affluent cultures (like ours) can afford cars, washing machines, lawn mowers..etc. So, being fat is nothing special because most people can afford to be that way. Now, its the "in" thing to be able to afford all that and a personal trainer.

When looking for furniture that can handle the super-sized person..I noticed that "luxury furniture" was usually the best buy. When looking for airline tickets ..the only thing that was comfortable for the person of size was the first-class seats. Sometimes..to me..being fat is still a luxury.


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## jenboo (Nov 10, 2009)

chicken legs said:


> Do you feel that your weight is a choice or medical condition?



My weight is not by choice or medical condition it is a mixture of all so many things that it cannot be an either or answer


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## chicken legs (Nov 10, 2009)

jenboo said:


> My weight is not by choice or medical condition it is a mixture of all so many things that it cannot be an either or answer



It usually isnt and I think thats were the debate begins.

What is it a mixture of..for you? 

I noticed for most Chunky folks, like myself, its lifestyle changes. For me I know stress really added the pounds. I didn't realize how much it affected me until I altered my lifestyle to focus on practicing Yoga... saw the changes of my mind and body...then have a change in lifestyle which stopped me from practicing..and see all the weight go right to my middle.


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## maureenc (Nov 10, 2009)

I don't think it was a decision I made as conciously...I think that a lot has to do with genetics, and a lot has to do with growing up poor and learning eating habits from a young age.

I am an SSBBW, and can honestly say that most of my friends that are not fat eat as much if not more then me most days...but, they also don't eat a lot of the same things I do...it really is harder to eat the right things when it costs less to buy a bag of cookies then it does to buy a bag of salad...I also learned to eat junk when I felt bad...So I think it was a little of both factors, and the last 100 pounds was all to do with medical issues...so I couldn't really pinpoint just one thing.


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## James (Nov 10, 2009)

Individual responsibility is always framed within the context of social determinants. Increased fatness is undoubtedly one of the outcomes of the environment in which we live and the inequity within it. That's not a moral argument. Its factual. For a large majority, being fat is as much as a choice as being black, poor, where you live, what the urban architecture looks like, what the social policy (health, education) is ? etc etc.


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## chicken legs (Nov 10, 2009)

Ernest Nagel said:


> So what if it is a choice? I'm Jewish by choice. I could make a pretty good case that it's not the best choice I could make but it's still my right to make it. Discrimination is wrong because it infringes on the basic rights of people to live their lives both as they are and as they choose. JMO.



Well to me..its like choosing to smoke. I know the complications of it and I am willing to deal with it accordingly and financially and would be really be peeved to have that right taken away or not be hired because of it..but I do realize i have to pay more for insurance of all kinds and since there are alot of people who dont like..I can only do it in certain places.

So I feel if you can afford that type of life choice it..so be it.

However..sometimes being big is not a choice. People like Shaq would be really screwed if they didnt have a lot of money to alter their surrounds to fit there level of comfort.

So does the Size Acceptance folks ...help (resource wise) people who do need help in that way..or is more about changing laws, perceptions, and providing info?


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## Fascinita (Nov 10, 2009)

I feel it's an absolute blessing. Bless us.

Just my too cents.


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## escapist (Nov 10, 2009)

Well my genetics are to be big. The being fat part, probably lifestyle. The more I've been at a desk, the bigger I've gotten. Not to long ago I turned that around by walking every other day. I dropped weight like nobody's business, and then lost even more just by making some healthy food choices like eating salads every day, and cutting out fast food. I dropped almost 60 lbs. in just 3 months, it really didn't feel like I was even trying that hard. My exercising didn't really take up that much time, no more than say some crappy-mind-numbing TV show someone would watch for 30 minutes a day. The real funny part was I was discovering that I was in better fitness at 400 lbs than some "normal" people that I knew almost 10 years younger.


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## chicken legs (Nov 10, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> I feel it's an absolute blessing. Bless us.
> 
> Just my too cents.



I just want to say thanks to dear Baby Jesus.....


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## Melian (Nov 10, 2009)

This topic never ends well.....but from what I've gathered:

Some people are gainers - they choose to be fat. 

Some people have PCOS and other illnesses - they have a medical condition and don't have a choice.

And then there is everyone else. *shrug*


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## Ernest Nagel (Nov 10, 2009)

chicken legs said:


> Well to me..its like choosing to smoke. I know the complications of it and I am willing to deal with it accordingly and financially and would be really be peeved to have that right taken away or not be hired because of it..but I do realize i have to pay more for insurance of all kinds and since there are alot of people who dont like..I can only do it in certain places.
> 
> So I feel if you can afford that type of life choice it..so be it.
> 
> ...



You might find a clue in the term itself; Size _Acceptance_? It isn't Size Accommodation or Size Rights, is it? That's because the words mean different things, don't you imagine? Are you curious about the difference between Police and Fire Departments? Men and women? Words and language are intended to help us understand things better. Your inquiry isn't. 

Yes, Shaq is denied the opportunity to be a jockey, but it isn't _societal acceptance_ that keeps him from it.

Smoking is another poor analogy. There is no such thing as second-hand fat. You don't need tobacco to live and food isn't saddled with prohibitive pricing/taxes and warning labels. Tobacco also isn't marketed aggressively and ubiquitously everywhere we turn. Of course all of that is irrelevant to the basic point.

If you want to make a case that Size Acceptance should be called Fat Acceptance then do so. The consideration as to whether fat is a choice or an affliction is moot. The case for Size/Fat acceptance is stunningly simple, imo. Should people be judged solely on appearances? It makes no difference how they arrived at that appearance; you simply have to agree that we are more than our aesthetics.

This should be a fecking flat earth conversation, at least here, imo. Why does it keep coming back up in one form or another, over and over again?!? :doh::doh::doh:


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## chicken legs (Nov 10, 2009)

[/URL]


Ernest Nagel said:


> You might find a clue in the term itself; Size _Acceptance_? It isn't Size Accommodation or Size Rights, is it? That's because the words mean different things, don't you imagine? Are you curious about the difference between Police and Fire Departments? Men and women? Words and language are intended to help us understand things better. Your inquiry isn't.
> 
> Yes, Shaq is denied the opportunity to be a jockey, but it isn't _societal acceptance_ that keeps him from it.
> 
> ...



When you have CDC calling obesity an Epidemic that the nation has to combat ..one might ask if it is a choice or a medical condition.

Then you have groups like Naafa who are fighting for Size Acceptance. However, in their "about" section they only talk about fat people. Shouldn't it include people who are just big..like Shaq (or any Large person who isn't fat) or people who are small ..like jockeys...or at least have links to other Size acceptance sites that deal with more than just fat?

Seeing parents go through hell because their child is obese is scary.

These are reasons why this subject comes up time and time again


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## Tooz (Nov 10, 2009)

chicken legs said:


> To me I think Size Acceptance needs to shed light on the genetic factor, because to me I think thats is who it is fighting for. Those who.."do everything "right" and are still fat (no-choice).





chicken legs said:


> I cant really step foot in the pool of Size Acceptance because it only deals with Fat Acceptance ...or am I wrong in that assumption of the Size Acceptance movement?



You are wrong in BOTH assumptions of SA. SA does not separate the "good fatties" ("healthy" eating, exercise, etc.) from the "bad fatties" (eats whatever, OR gained, OR whatever). SA isn't even JUST about fat people. IT IS ABOUT REMOVING SIZE FROM THE EQUATION WHEN EVALUATING A PERSON'S MERIT. ANYONE can become involved in SA if they feel that people should be treated equal regardless of weight (high or low) height (tall or short), or anything regarding a person's size or how they supposedly "got there."

I tend to get upset when people come onto Dims and parrot the bilge that society and the media feeds us about fat and how people get fat. When it comes right down to it, science really has very little knowledge about the human body. People will disagree with me, but seriously, why else are there so many studies trying to pinpoint why some people are fat and others are not? Sure, there are people who drink gravy and wonder why they're fat, but there are just as many people who just are fat. I don't know why it's so hard to understand that people come in different shapes and sizes.


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## BothGunsBlazing (Nov 10, 2009)

Tooz said:


> You are wrong in BOTH assumptions of SA. SA does not separate the "good fatties" ("healthy" eating, exercise, etc.) from the "bad fatties" (eats whatever, OR gained, OR whatever). SA isn't even JUST about fat people. IT IS ABOUT REMOVING SIZE FROM THE EQUATION WHEN EVALUATING A PERSON'S MERIT.



This is true. The media/society doesn't distinguish how you got fat or why you're that way, once you've crossed the line into fat territory, you're automatically every stereotype ever conceived about fat people. 

The main thing about size acceptance is realizing and accepting that people being a certain way, whether it be fat or thin is no one's business except their own. People shouldn't have to answer and justify being the way they are. They should just be allowed to live their lives free of people imposing their views and discrimination on them.


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## Tau (Nov 10, 2009)

This thread brought back a memory of myself as a little girl staring down in bemusement at my suddenly much fatter thighs and tummy. I was an extremely thin child till i turned 4 and then, in my head, mysteriously began to pick up weight. I remember the first time I noticed I was getting bigger: I'd been stung by a bee while stealing grapes I think from Father Anthony's garden and in my head the bee sting had somehow inflated me cos after that I was just fat LOL! For years even my mom spoke of my weight gain as this mysterious medical phenomena. I was big boned, because of my allergies I retained water which was why I just kept getting fatter. She came up with all these medical reasons for her rapidly expanding offspring because the questions from relatives and teachers just kept getting meaner and more judgmental. For years I thought of my fat as a medical condition and I hated it but hid behind it. People seemed to make excuses for the existence of my fat body by saying: She can't help it, she probably has a thyroid problem. 

I know many people who are fat because they have a thyroid problem, I know many who can't help the weight they gain and never shed. I can. I've always been able to. What I've always hated about the: _you're fat cos there's something medically wrong with you and because you didn't choose the fat you're somehow better_ bit is that it comes from a place where people who gain weight minus any medical problems have no willpower, are lazy, are evil and indulgent. It comes from a place where fat people 'who can't help it' are somehow more innocent than those 'disgusting fat people who just keep eating!' but still really pathetic, sad creatures Sister Gertrude, my Std 7 teacher, told me that if I didn't have a medical problem then my body was evidence of two of the 7 deadly sins, sloth and gluttony, and I was damning my eternal soul to hell because of that. True, she was completely crazy but you really don't need to hear that at 14. 

What I'm saying here is that I don't think discussion of fat as a medical problem versus fat as various lifestyle 'mistakes' really helps anybody. Its like dividing us into two catergories: the poor, helples fatties who couldn't choose and the revolting, walking mouths who didn't have the strength to say no.


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## chicken legs (Nov 10, 2009)

With the current Health Care Reform saying its too expensive to deal with fatties..it makes me wonder where USA is going. 

If its a choice then shouldn't it be my choice good or bad (like religion or smoking) and if its a medical condition shouldn't we study it like a symptom of a (social) disease instead of treating it like a contagious flu virus?

With the current economy, imo, I feel Size Acceptance will be coming under some serious fire.


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## Keb (Nov 10, 2009)

It was never a choice for me; I've been fat since at least the age of seven, and was always at the tops of the charts as a little kid.

I don't know entirely the reasons underlying my corpulence, but I do know that several lifestyle changes have never caused me to lose weight noticably. 

I'd like to be thinner, but since that seems to be unlikely, I'm doing my best to be glad I'm me.


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## JoyJoy (Nov 10, 2009)

chicken legs said:


> [/url]
> 
> When you have CDC calling obesity an Epidemic that the nation has to combat ..one might ask if it is a choice or a medical condition.
> 
> ...





chicken legs said:


> With the current Health Care Reform saying its too expensive to deal with fatties..it makes me wonder where USA is going.
> 
> If its a choice then shouldn't it be my choice good or bad (like religion or smoking) and if its a medical condition shouldn't we study it like a symptom of a (social) disease instead of treating it like a contagious flu virus?
> 
> With the current economy, imo, I feel Size Acceptance will be coming under some serious fire.


Personally, I think bringing up anything the government has to say about weight and the cost of obesity in a conversation about size acceptance should be white noise. I'm no economist or political analyst, but one doesn't have to be to smell the rotten fish coming from "big pharma" and the healthcare industry in general when it comes to issues dealing with weight. Too many people stand to profit from hyping up the "obesity epidemic" to outlandish proportions for me to take any of it without a rather large grain of salt. 

Unfortunately, the lemming masses are going to believe whatever they're fed and assume it's true, and form their attitudes accordingly. It's largely because of these "sheeple" that size acceptance is even an issue. You mention the comparison between racism and size-ism? The parallel is strong because it involves people judging others based on appearance alone. Just as a person's skin color should not affect how they're treated or what rights they're given, a person should not be treated differently simply because their thighs and ass are bigger than "average". It doesn't matter what got them there or what keeps them there - it matters that that is what they are at that moment in time, and they're just as human as anyone else, and should be treated as such.


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## TallFatSue (Nov 10, 2009)

Tau said:


> I know many people who are fat because they have a thyroid problem


Sometimes I felt I didn't choose my fat but instead it chose me. This might be what happened. Several years ago my doctor diagnosed a thyroid condition, so that could have made me so fat when I was a girl, but nobody thought to test for it in the 1960s. Since I've been on thyroid medication my formerly-brittle fingernails and formerly-split hair are better than ever. But evidently my fat is so comfortable it wants to stay right where it is. 

I've always been fat, and I thought it because my grandmothers thought food = love and spoiled me royally rotten. That's what my mother blamed it on, yet she would not be outdone, so she made even more goodies. Talk about mixed messages! Mom expected me to eat everything while she criticized my weight, so I was damned if I ate it and damned if I didn't. In my early teens I hated being the big tall fat girl so I tried to lose weight, but the only way was to starve myself and be even more miserable. Later in my teens I got fed up with mom's nagging, so I did an about-face and embraced my fat as a symbol of my independence, "just to show her." From then on I felt much better because it was all out in the open. Yes, world, I'm fat -- deal with it. 

If my thyroid condition had been diagnosed as a girl, who knows? Maybe I wouldn't be so fat, but maybe I'd be a different person too. Life would be more convenient if I were thin, but it could hardly be more interesting or enjoyable, so no major complaints. I gotta be me.


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## Miss Vickie (Nov 10, 2009)

chicken legs said:


> With the current Health Care Reform saying its too expensive to deal with fatties..it makes me wonder where USA is going. .



That's not what health care reform is "saying" (not that health care reform has a voice -- we have the voice). What that article says is that there are several things -- obesity, cancer, diabetes and HIV/AIDS -- which increase the cost of care for Americans, and that these are issues which are particularly a problem when it comes to minorities. Nowhere does it say that it's "too expensive", but rather that these are things which cost a LOT of money to treat, and maybe we can look at preventing them where possible. 

There has also been a lot of discussion about our unconscionably high infant mortality rate. Does that mean pregnant women are "too expensive" to treat, or that preterm neonates should be allowed to die? No. What they're doing, though, is looking at prevention, because a large percentage of the infant mortality stats are due to preterm infants.

Whether being fat is a choice or genetics (or both, as I happen to think) is irrelevant. Regardless of how we become fat, the diseases that are sadly associated with being fat are debilitating, sometimes painful, are expensive to treat and can lead to an early death. Does this mean that being fat is automatically a death sentence? Hell no. There are lots of fat people who are healthy. Does it mean that if you're thin that you're automatically off the hook? Again, no. But from a public health perspective (which is the perspective of people creating this legislation, as it _should_ be), obesity, among other things is expensive to treat. For those people who don't want to be fat, why not find ways to prevent obesity by supporting the lifestyle choices that keep people at healthy weights? As we all know, it's incredibly hard to lose weight and maintain that loss. So I'm glad that the government is looking at prevention -- maybe we need support for gym memberships, making biking and walking to work safer, making school lunches healthier, stuff like that. 

But that in no way means that the US government is saying that they don't want to cover us, which is what you seem to be implying with your post (unless I misread you, in which case, I apologize). In fact, more people will be covered with a public option because insurance companies will no longer be able to deny us, simply because we're fat.

I see that as a good thing.


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## Ernest Nagel (Nov 10, 2009)

chicken legs said:


> [/URL]
> 
> When you have CDC calling obesity an Epidemic that the nation has to combat ..one might ask if it is a choice or a medical condition.
> 
> ...



As numerous people have already observed there is clear evidence there can be no "either/or" to this question. Most of nature is not black & white. The point is the dignity and value of a human being does not change because they genetically or personally manage calories and activity differently. 

And while the history of governments in dealing with non-majority, non-average citizens is less than stellar it has nothing to do with whether Fat Acceptance is valid or viable. 

The whole "parents going through hell because their child is obese" thing? You don't think acceptance would have some merit in changing that? Fixing blame on nature or nurture doesn't really help them much either way, does it?


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## Vader7476 (Nov 10, 2009)

Diet, what you eat and how much.

Exercise, what types of activities and how long(Aerobics vs. Anabolics for instance)

Genetics, DNA and what you're predisposed to be(Metabolism). This can tie into medical conditions, like thyroid disease.

They all play a factor, most definitely. So the question isn't so much which one, but how much and how important, and that's something that entirely depends on the individual. Kind of a classic nature vs. nurture. I believe the medical community attributes weight to the first two in most cases.


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## katorade (Nov 10, 2009)

chicken legs said:


> [/url]
> 
> 
> 
> Then you have groups like Naafa who are fighting for Size Acceptance. However, in their "about" section they only talk about fat people. Shouldn't it include people who are just big..like Shaq (or any Large person who isn't fat) or people who are small ..like jockeys...or at least have links to other Size acceptance sites that deal with more than just fat?



Well, it should be noted that NAAFA doesn't stand for the National Association to Advance Size Acceptance, even though it's the civil right they're fighting for. Not all groups that fight for size acceptance necessarily believe in the same things.


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## Fascinita (Nov 10, 2009)

Ernest Nagel said:


> This should be a fecking flat earth conversation, at least here, imo.



IMO2 ..,..


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## James (Nov 10, 2009)

Another thing to remember is that obesity (as a medical term and a medical condition) only exists because of the invention of a metric (BMI) to measure it quantitatively. Before 'obesity' was invented as a disease, there was no medical imperative to commoditize medical 'solutions' for it. The idea that BMI 20, BMI 25 and BMI 30 are the medical thresholds for 'normal', 'overweight' and 'obese' didn't exist before 1995. These numbers were not based on any medical epidemiology. They were instead recommended as a 'guideline' by a group called the IOTF (International Obesity Task Force... yes really) to the WHO who then formalized the various points on the BMI scale to provide a medical metric for measuring Obesity as a disease. The IOTF were a group that was uniquely funded by Hoffman - La Roche and Abbott Laboratories (the manufacturers of weight loss drugs Xenical and Meridia). Through the setting of fixed BMI standards, Hoffman - La Roche and Abbott Laboratories created a medical definition of 'obesity' and thus a medical imperative to sell their products as treatments. Anyway... point being to all this is that being labeled as 'normal, 'overweight' or 'obese' was a choice that was made, on our behalf, by these two companies when they decided to invest in creating standards to define those words.


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## cheekyjez (Nov 10, 2009)

As has been said before, there are so many factors, and acceptance in and of itself doesn't depend on any of them.

In terms of choices, there are two types of "choosing fat" - active choice, as in "I'm going to gain 30 pounds this year", and passive choice, as in "I think I'll take the bus rather than walking today". The passive choices are frequently made without thinking of health or weight issues.

We know that the health risks typically associated with obesity are correlated much more strongly with lifestyle - as in, people who are inactive and eat badly have worse health whether they're fat or not. And those passive choices are the things that impact lifestyle.

So, a public health goal (whether endorsed by the gov't or not) is to make the passive choices skew towards the healthy option. Some people will lose weight as a result of that, and some people won't - but in either case, the weight loss is not the goal, the lifestyle improvement is. 

And honestly, the more visibility that healthy fat people can get, the easier we can break the societal association between fatness and bad health. Having celebrities say "I work out 3 times a week, get my five portions of veg each day, I weigh 350+ pounds, and my health is FINE" can change public perceptions and make life better for us all.


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## Fascinita (Nov 10, 2009)

cheekyjez said:


> Having celebrities say "I work out 3 times a week, get my five portions of veg each day, I weigh 350+ pounds, and my health is FINE" can change public perceptions and make life better for us all.



First, make a 350 lb celebrity. And keep her at that weight.

Oh, and fatter = poorer, and poorer = fatter, generally speaking. 

Metabolism, schmetabolism.

I still say it's a blessing. Such a blessing.


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## mithrandirjn (Nov 10, 2009)

I can only speak for myself: my genetics make me relatively big to begin with, as I have very big muscles throughout my legs and a broad torso and wide shoulders, but I know full well that I have my spare-tire stomach because of any number of crappy diet choices I make.

I exercise pretty regularly, take my vitamins, and have cut out certain negative things in my diet, but I'm a guy who's just under 6'0 and probably carries around an extra 20-25 pounds because I enjoy eating out, drinking beer, and having ice cream. 

Those are choices I make, albeit from behaviors I learned and used from the time I was young (my mother, FANTASTIC cook, but not always very health conscious when I was little; she's learned more and changed as we've gotten older). These are old habits, and thus hard to break, so the saying goes, but they're still MY choices at the end of the day, and choices that I sometimes wish I wasn't making for various reasons.

That said, even if I made ALL the "right choices", even if I extended my exercise routine to cover all seven days of the week, etc., I'd still be a guy with a moderately large frame, regardless.


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## Kbbig (Nov 11, 2009)

I choose to be fat. I was not a particularly chubby child, so to get this way, I had to work for it. I like this very much because I am fat due to my own choosing, and not because something happened to me, like many fat people. I know many people who did not choose their weight, however.


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## BBW4Chattery (Nov 12, 2009)

I choose to be THIS fat but I never chose to be overweight... if that makes any sense.

There's never been a second where I didn't think obesity had a genetic and behavioral component. I see my entire family eating FAR worse than I do... the three of them NEVER, NEVER, NEVER engaging in any sort of sport or intentional exercise, eating 100's of grams of sugar a day, tons of candy, all sorts of fat, smoking, drinking ,etc... and still being half of my size. It blows... and it isn't much motivation for continuing with the healthy lifestyle when you know that the one payout you're hoping to get just isn't going to happen


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## chicken legs (Nov 13, 2009)

DUDE ..I'm still in shock that Moniquessbbw was asked the question at hand. Wild. Well handled..but wow.

To me..I think the question is being asked because those who truely lead society are trying to pass the buck. Our food/air/water supplies are laden with steroids, pesticides, toxic waste, etc...which alters dna. Then you add a fast pace stress filled society..which alters existing hormones. Now top it off with mechinization..and what do you have..a bunch of unhealthy people. Now if all this was done in moderation maybe we could have delt with it better. Then being fat would be a choice for those who are Fa and like to feel it on themselves.

Progress is a double-edged sword and for some reason the story of Tower of Babel comes to mind... and something I was into but didnt know the name of until Escapist showed me is Steampunk...but that is a subject for another thread I guess.


Anywho...I mentioned Shaq because that is a big dude...and a "what if" came to mind. What if he didn't have a competitive spirit? What if he chose to be a professional in a more sedentary field? I mean, he is pretty thick to be a basketball player. What would have happened to his body if exercising wasn't his profession?


Unless we need to either leave the planet soon or fight alien invaders...well even if we did..we need to let our bodies catch up with our minds...and let society digest on all the crazy changes of the past few decades. Like letting wine age.


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## ChubbyBubbles (Nov 13, 2009)

mine was definitely a choice. i think (at least in my case) when you put your mind to something, along with your heart and soul, you can control most anything. i don't blame my heaviest weight on medical conditions...at least not anymore. i know that each and every bite of food i willingly put into my mouth contributed to the fat i was adding to my body. once i took a good hard look at what i was doing, and once i realized that, i was able to take control and change things. any problems i had medically are now getting much better or gone. mind over matter...


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## TallFatSue (Nov 16, 2009)

Something else that might influence our so-called choice is that fat has wonderful youth-enhancing qualities (and so does my hair coloring  ). I'm 52 but seem to look 10 years younger. I can't remember the last time I was carded at a restaurant, but it happened last month at one of those places that says "we card to 39½". That was a very pleasant surprise! 

Lately I've been keeping my personal life off Dimensions but this bears sharing. Besides the "Opulents", this year Art & I are becoming more involved with some long-lost friends we kinda lost touch with decades ago, when they had children and we couldn't. It's perfectly understandable that their families came first and we saw less and less of them over the years. Now though, their children are gradually going away to school or moving out, they are becoming empty-nesters, so we are catching up with each other. 

One development, not surprisingly, is that several of my old friends gained weight during their pregnancies. I'm still the fattest by far, but some of them now range from BBW to SSBBW, and they're at various stages of denial-to-acceptance about their larger sizes, although none of them really likes it. I've been not-so-subtly pointing out to my old gal pals that fat tends to make us women of a certain age look younger and curvier. Whatever their feelings about being fatter, they sure liked hearing that their weight gains smooth out wrinkles. Yes, girls, that extra chocolate dessert has medicinal properties! 

There's also another old friend who's doing her best to remain a size 0, but unfortunately she's starting to look like a pointy-nosed hag. Not that I'd dare say such a thing to her!


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## Carrie (Nov 16, 2009)

TallFatSue said:


> There's also another old friend who's doing her best to remain a size 0, but unfortunately she's starting to look like a pointy-nosed hag. Not that I'd dare say such a thing to her!


Sue, I'm glad you're so positive about being fat. It's a good thing! The world needs more fat positivity. But I wish you'd understand that you can be fat positive without being thin negative. How do you think the thin members of this community, many of whom are also fat positive and supportive of us fat people, feel when reading statements like the one you've made here? You do _not_ have to take someone down in order to lift yourself up. There's room for everyone up here.


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## Jon Blaze (Nov 16, 2009)

It's a symptom of the combined internal and external factors that affect each and every person. A medical condition implies that it's something to be cured, but that loses touch with what really should be done. If someone's condition is a result of a certain set of habits, then the only thing that makes sense is to focus on those habits.


+1 to what Tooz said. She's on the mark.


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## Jon Blaze (Nov 16, 2009)

Carrie said:


> Sue, I'm glad you're so positive about being fat. It's a good thing! The world needs more fat positivity. But I wish you'd understand that you can be fat positive without being thin negative. How do you think the thin members of this community, many of whom are also fat positive and supportive of us fat people, feel when reading statements like the one you've made here? You do _not_ have to take someone down in order to lift yourself up. There's room for everyone up here.



Rep Wand dead. rep not given. Sad Panda.  lol


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## superodalisque (Nov 16, 2009)

i have a thyroid condition but i'm fat by choice. as a child of course i didn't know what was going on. i wasn't responsible for controling my health or food choices. now as an adult i am. i know the kinds of things my body reacts to and how. i know exactly what effects my actions have on my body. i don't rely on my thyroid condition to account for anything about my size accept for maybe dropping a few pounds once it was regulated since my doc informed me that at my size a thryroid condition only accounted for at most a 30lbs difference. the rest is all me and what i decide to do.


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## TallFatSue (Nov 17, 2009)

Carrie said:


> Sue, I'm glad you're so positive about being fat. It's a good thing! The world needs more fat positivity. But I wish you'd understand that you can be fat positive without being thin negative. How do you think the thin members of this community, many of whom are also fat positive and supportive of us fat people, feel when reading statements like the one you've made here? You do _not_ have to take someone down in order to lift yourself up. There's room for everyone up here.


Sorry if I gave that impression. I honestly try not to tear down others to build myself up, but I'm only human. Maybe I took one of her comments too personally. When we were visiting them, her husband complained that she eats only one skimpy meal a day, so she's probably malnourished too. To break the tension, I joked that a few extra pounds might make her look younger. Can you say faux pas? :doh: She said she didn't want to turn into a water buffalo. Ouch!  Methinx some issues there, so we've decided to butt out. 

Oh well, this wasn't our only mishap as we've reconnected with other long-lost friends in the age of Facebook etc. Some have been downright funny, but thankfully we've had more hits than misses. I'll spare you the details.


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## joswitch (Nov 17, 2009)

James said:


> Another thing to remember is that obesity (as a medical term and a medical condition) only exists because of the invention of a metric (BMI) to measure it quantitatively. Before 'obesity' was invented as a disease, there was no medical imperative to commoditize medical 'solutions' for it. The idea that BMI 20, BMI 25 and BMI 30 are the medical thresholds for 'normal', 'overweight' and 'obese' didn't exist before 1995. These numbers were not based on any medical epidemiology. They were instead recommended as a 'guideline' by a group called the IOTF (International Obesity Task Force... yes really) to the WHO who then formalized the various points on the BMI scale to provide a medical metric for measuring Obesity as a disease. The IOTF were a group that was uniquely funded by Hoffman - La Roche and Abbott Laboratories (the manufacturers of weight loss drugs Xenical and Meridia). Through the setting of fixed BMI standards, Hoffman - La Roche and Abbott Laboratories created a medical definition of 'obesity' and thus a medical imperative to sell their products as treatments. Anyway... point being to all this is that being labeled as 'normal, 'overweight' or 'obese' was a choice that was made, on our behalf, by these two companies when they decided to invest in creating standards to define those words.



Yes! This^! Dude! Somebody REP this man for me!


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## JoyJoy (Nov 17, 2009)

TallFatSue said:


> Sorry if I gave that impression. I honestly try not to tear down others to build myself up, but I'm only human. Maybe I took one of her comments too personally. When we were visiting them, her husband complained that she eats only one skimpy meal a day, so she's probably malnourished too. To break the tension, I joked that a few extra pounds might make her look younger. Can you say faux pas? :doh: She said she didn't want to turn into a water buffalo. Ouch!  Methinx some issues there, so we've decided to butt out.


Wow...even in your "apology" you take swipes at the thinner woman. Sorry, but I call bs. 

I'm not going to pretend like I haven't made cutting remarks about another person's appearance - in private. I'm sure most of us have - in private. However, Sue, discretion is a very good thing. Comments you would make in private with your partner aren't always appropriate to share publicly, especially comments cutting down someone for their size on a "size acceptance" website. But then....you've had similar things said to you before about such comments and yet you still make them, so I'm thinking it's rather obvious you don't give a rat's ass and are going to say whatever cute-sy little story you feel like sharing, to hell with discretion.


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## TallFatSue (Nov 17, 2009)

Oky doky. I'll keep my private life private.


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## fat hiker (Nov 20, 2009)

chicken legs said:


> 50 years ago, no one could have imagined someone growing to the size of Manuel Uribe. What has changed in 50 years? or What happened 50 years ago to have caused that change? What is going to happen 50 years from now...something like Wall-E?



What? Robert Earl Hughes didn't exist? Boy, all those year of looking for his picture in the Guinness Book of World Records were wasted?

Robert Earl Hughes made it to 1069 pounds 51 years ago this year.


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## orin (Nov 20, 2009)

.... I think some people ... are genetically prone towards being bigger ... like me 

but I chose not to let my genetics win and workout and pump up

i think STAYING FAT IS A CHOICE !!!


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## orin (Nov 20, 2009)

Staying FAT is a bad choice ... if it is causing problems ... if it is not then ... i feel that if that person is comfortable being bigger ... there is no reason to change PERIOD


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## name2come (Nov 20, 2009)

orin said:


> .... I think some people ... are genetically prone towards being bigger ... like me
> 
> but I chose not to let my genetics win and workout and pump up
> 
> i think STAYING FAT IS A CHOICE !!!



And that's where you would horribly wrong. Oh, I'm sorry. I meant HORRIBLY WRONG !!!

Being fat is not a choice quite precisely because fat people cannot choose to be not fat. An extremely small number of fat people become not fat people semi-permanently, but there is no true choice involved in any of that. When the supposed means of making us not-fat fails over 95% of the time, there is no choice. "I did, so can you" isn't a proof. Its just a way of trying to enforce your perceived moral superiority and your fantasy of accomplishment.

My fat is not a disease, nor did I choose to be fat. I choose not to hate myself, though, and that's been an amazingly healthy and achievable choice to make.


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## orin (Nov 20, 2009)

name2come said:


> And that's where you would horribly wrong. Oh, I'm sorry. I meant HORRIBLY WRONG !!!
> 
> Being fat is not a choice quite precisely because fat people cannot choose to be not fat. An extremely small number of fat people become not fat people semi-permanently, but there is no true choice involved in any of that. When the supposed means of making us not-fat fails over 95% of the time, there is no choice. "I did, so can you" isn't a proof. Its just a way of trying to enforce your perceived moral superiority and your fantasy of accomplishment.
> 
> My fat is not a disease, nor did I choose to be fat. I choose not to hate myself, though, and that's been an amazingly healthy and achievable choice to make.



I am not trying to seem morally superior by any means ... offense was not meant to be given .. so take it as you please ....

FAT does not come out of thin air ... FAT is a result of how our bodies deal with what goes in .. if nothing went in ... well we would waist away ....

FAT is not a permanent thing ... I am short AND THAT IS PERMANENT !!!

FAT can change .. but i am NOT SAYING FAT IS BAD !!!!!!!!

FAT WAS BAD FOR ME BECAUSE IT WAS CAUSING ME SOME PROBLEMS IN MY LIFE ...

to each their own


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## Theresa48 (Nov 20, 2009)

This thread saddens me. Wish I could explain the why...probably if I could explain it...the feelings part, it would be good for me. I'd be able to "intellectualize" the feeling and seize feeling it. To simplify being fat as a choice seems cruel to those of us (to me) who have been working to accept our size and not feel inferior to others because society tells us we are inferior because we are "choosing" fat and fat is ugly...it is unhealthy...it is destructive...we are suicidal...we have lousy will power...we are lazy...we are ... a bane to all others. How lovely to carry that around all our lives. I come to Dimensions sometimes because there are people here who seem to love fat, not to judge fat people as others judge fat people, and to feel more "normal" after a day of feeling quite abnormal. I did not choose fat. I am fat. Was fat, am fat, will always be fat. I've lost weight before. I gained it back. Lost it again. Gained it back again. How did I lose it in the first place? By choosing to do what is un-natural to my body: eating less than 900 calories a day. I am not lazy. I am not inactive. I am not stupid. I gained the weight back. In the end, I gain the weight back. Is that a choice? Guess it appears to be to most people. To me, it isn't a choice. It is the way I am supposed to be. I am sad, because I am frustrated and angry, that the issue of fat is simplified down to being a "choice." More and more, scientists are discovering there is little about us that is truly a "choice."


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Nov 21, 2009)

I'm with Theresa....this thread makes me sad, as well. Why does it matter if it's "choice" or not? The idea of acceptance doesn't have a lot to do with the "why" all the time, does it?


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## musicman (Nov 21, 2009)

Tooz said:


> SA does not separate the "good fatties" ("healthy" eating, exercise, etc.) from the "bad fatties" (eats whatever, OR gained, OR whatever). SA isn't even JUST about fat people. IT IS ABOUT REMOVING SIZE FROM THE EQUATION WHEN EVALUATING A PERSON'S MERIT.



This is EXACTLY right! Well said, Tooz. We don't want decisions to be made on the basis of a person's size or weight when it's not relevant (might be relevant in selecting a jockey for the Kentucky Derby, but in other cases, NOT). This is the same as not wanting decisions to be made on the basis of other characteristics like race, religion, ethnicity, etc. (Race might be relevant in choosing an undercover cop to infiltrate a street gang, but in most other cases, NOT.)

Discussions about the reasons why people are fat can be interesting from an academic viewpoint, but I don't like them because they provide fodder for the enemies of fat people. It makes it easier for these people to rationalize their own fat hatred and discrimination, and easier for them to convince weak-minded people that fat people are inferior. If the reason is genetic, then fat people shouldn't be allowed to breed. If the reason is lifestyle, then fat people must be "re-educated" to change their evil ways. I don't like either of those. 

Here's another way I think about it: If fat is a choice, then it's like religion, right? Do we want a society that allows religious discrimination? If fat is not a choice, then it must be like a person's race. Do we prefer racial discrimination?


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## joswitch (Nov 21, 2009)

musicman said:


> *Here's another way I think about it: If fat is a choice, then it's like religion, right? Do we want a society that allows religious discrimination? If fat is not a choice, then it must be like a person's race. Do we prefer racial discrimination?*



Oh very YES! *wild applause* That's the whole argument nailed in a nutshell! Put it on a placard or a T-shirt! Fuckin' A!!!!


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## squurp (Nov 21, 2009)

chicken legs said:


> Something that made me ponder was a response to a post I made over in the Fa myths thread. The person likened the Size Acceptance fight to the fight against Racism.
> 
> The thing is Most Fat people have become that way because of lifestyle choices not because they come from the land of fat people like African Americans coming from Africa. A person doesnt choose their genetics..but they do choose ..via lifestyle..how those genetics express themselves.
> 
> ...




Epigenetics, or the science of how genes are expressed is young yet. But, already we know that period where it is determined how most genes are expressed, happens between conception and birth. You must have been a very precocious fetus, to make those kinds of choices in the womb.


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## chicken legs (Nov 21, 2009)

fat hiker said:


> What? Robert Earl Hughes didn't exist? Boy, all those year of looking for his picture in the Guinness Book of World Records were wasted?
> 
> Robert Earl Hughes made it to 1069 pounds 51 years ago this year.



Man it only took me 2 days to find his picture, but I didnt know he was 1069..did he have kids?

I wonder..if he did have kids..did any of them get as huge?

Anywho wasnt he a very rich man? and therefore had the luxury of being huge?


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## chicken legs (Nov 21, 2009)

squurp said:


> Epigenetics, or the science of how genes are expressed is young yet. But, already we know that period where it is determined how most genes are expressed, happens between conception and birth. You must have been a very precocious fetus, to make those kinds of choices in the womb.



***looks up Epigenetics***


LOL...yes I was. (firm believer of mind over matter...just depends on what is on the mind..)

You know while I was pregnant with my son..I used to meditate on the traits I wanted him to have. His father has fantastic legs/cardio ability and I sooo wanted him to have his instead of mine..i cant run to save my life..lol..and it doesnt matter what weight I'm at.


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## Inhibited (Nov 21, 2009)

I make no excuses for being fat, even if it is genetics i know i can be thinner if i worked harder at the gym and ate better, sure i would never be a size 8 but could probably get down to a 14/16 if i worked at it..... So for me i guess it is kinda a choice in away, as I'm not working harder. 

There is always talk with in the Government about free WLS, but i don't think that i would take the offer, as the article says most people put the weight back on..

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/na...s-plan-for-obese/story-e6frf7l6-1225719998899

(I know that there are rules about postings in relation to weight loss, but from my understanding of the rules the above does not break the any... if it does please feel free to remove it)


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## bigmac (Nov 21, 2009)

Some of the arguments put forward in this tread are overly simplistic. The one thing obesity researchers agree upon is that obesity has multiple causes. In this respect obesity is like intelligence. 

Most people, I assume, would like to be intelligent and educated. However, not everyone has what it takes to be a physics professor at Princeton. We can act as individuals and as a society to ensure that people maximize their potential (i.e. from prenatal nutrition to reading to our kids to supporting higher education). But in the end some people will be more accomplished than others -- that's just a fact of life. Some kids will unfortunately inherit genes that limit their intellectual potential, some will be exposed to in utero toxins that likewise limit their potential, some will grow up in neighborhoods with crappy schools ... (the list could go on forever).

Do we say its a choice to be less than brilliant -- of course not -- we as a society recognize that not everyone can be an Einstein. This is so even though there are lots of personal choices involved in (i.e. to study hard or not, to go to college or not ...). We only get mad when a person is obviously squandering talent.

Like intelligence, fatness has multiple causations (from genetics, to unavailability of good food, to the lack recreational opportunities ... again the list goes on). So it doesn't really make sense to say being fat is a choice. You may have chosen to eat that extra piece of pie last night (but so did a lot of thin people) but you didn't choose your parents, you didn't choose the food you ate as a child, you probably didn't choose to live in a city where walking is either unsafe or totally impractical .... 

As a society we accept that people vary in their intellectual ability (and physical ability for that matter) -- why is it so hard to just accept that people will vary in size.


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## SocialbFly (Nov 21, 2009)

orin said:


> .... I think some people ... are genetically prone towards being bigger ... like me
> 
> but I chose not to let my genetics win and workout and pump up
> 
> i think STAYING FAT IS A CHOICE !!!



wow, such an easy answer, how did i not know this in being 50 years old, that all i need to do is to deny my genetics and my fat ass wouldnt be fat, thank you, now i know.


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## fat hiker (Nov 23, 2009)

chicken legs said:


> Man it only took me 2 days to find his picture, but I didnt know he was 1069..did he have kids?
> 
> I wonder..if he did have kids..did any of them get as huge?
> 
> Anywho wasnt he a very rich man? and therefore had the luxury of being huge?



No, Robert Earl Hughes wasn't rich - he was only one step away from being a hill billy! There is at least one video on Youtube made from a short movie clip of him and his parents, and their house would tell you they weren't rich. He made a living for a time as a side-show attraction, judging by the photographs. I've never seen any mention anywhere of him marrying or having kids - and his own spectacular growth was supposed to be the result of a childhood infection that somehow changed or damaged his hormonal system.


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## superodalisque (Nov 23, 2009)

Theresa48 said:


> This thread saddens me. Wish I could explain the why...probably if I could explain it...the feelings part, it would be good for me. I'd be able to "intellectualize" the feeling and seize feeling it. To simplify being fat as a choice seems cruel to those of us (to me) who have been working to accept our size and not feel inferior to others because society tells us we are inferior because we are "choosing" fat and fat is ugly...it is unhealthy...it is destructive...we are suicidal...we have lousy will power...we are lazy...we are ... a bane to all others. How lovely to carry that around all our lives. I come to Dimensions sometimes because there are people here who seem to love fat, not to judge fat people as others judge fat people, and to feel more "normal" after a day of feeling quite abnormal. I did not choose fat. I am fat. Was fat, am fat, will always be fat. I've lost weight before. I gained it back. Lost it again. Gained it back again. How did I lose it in the first place? By choosing to do what is un-natural to my body: eating less than 900 calories a day. I am not lazy. I am not inactive. I am not stupid. I gained the weight back. In the end, I gain the weight back. Is that a choice? Guess it appears to be to most people. To me, it isn't a choice. It is the way I am supposed to be. I am sad, because I am frustrated and angry, that the issue of fat is simplified down to being a "choice." More and more, scientists are discovering there is little about us that is truly a "choice."



in my opinion it shouldn't really matter why you are fat in terms of a personal value judgement of yourself. i'm not dismissing how you feel. i'm just putting another alternative out there. no matter what, you are a beautiful person and well worth knowing and loving just like you are. the things you or society feels are negative about being fat need to be pushed aside because even if the very worst was true you'd still be wonderful. it doesn't matter if you eat a lot. it does not matter if somewhere deep down in your subconscious you've decided you'd rather be fat. it wouldn't matter if you'd rather eat more than diet. it does not matter that you'd rather be inactive or "lazy" or why that might or might not be true. it doesn't make any real difference why in the long run. maybe you could play a little game with yourself and even assume the worst was true. how would you go about loving yourself even then? 

we are all so hard on ourselves. we spend so much time listening to the negative little voices in our head that we forget what a miracle we are and how much we mean to other people without ever changing anything about ourselves. we are always comparing ourselves to some "ideal " thing thats out there somewhere and internalizing the belief that we don't measure up. you are the standard already. you are the ideal. all of us have to learn to love and appreciate the stuff we think is bad inside of us along with that we think is good. its part of us. its part of our journey. we might just not understand why yet. we need to let go of our own guilt and shame over just being who we are. then no matter how you got where you are, you are in a good place.

as for normal. you are already normal. its just that other people can hide thier differences better. people like putting on to you what they really see and believe about themselves. its not really you they are thinking of when they act disgusted. they are thinking of thier own issues that they feel out of control of that fat eople seem to embody physically for them. people did the same thing regarding black people. it reminds me of what Joseph Conrad was trying to get across in Heart of Darkness. don't take everyone's negative feelings about themselves into you. don't do that to yourself. you don't deserve it.

you are exactly right though when you say that you are who you are supposed to be. that was really truth and beauty all together right there.


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## Theresa48 (Nov 23, 2009)

Thank you! Your words make a lot of sense to me and I appreciate the time it took to make the response.


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## squurp (Nov 23, 2009)

bigmac said:


> Some of the arguments put forward in this tread are overly simplistic. The one thing obesity researchers agree upon is that obesity has multiple causes. In this respect obesity is like intelligence.
> 
> Most people, I assume, would like to be intelligent and educated. However, not everyone has what it takes to be a physics professor at Princeton. We can act as individuals and as a society to ensure that people maximize their potential (i.e. from prenatal nutrition to reading to our kids to supporting higher education). But in the end some people will be more accomplished than others -- that's just a fact of life. Some kids will unfortunately inherit genes that limit their intellectual potential, some will be exposed to in utero toxins that likewise limit their potential, some will grow up in neighborhoods with crappy schools ... (the list could go on forever).
> 
> ...



Obesity is not a simplistic issue. unavailability of good food, lack of recreational opportunities, and related issues, has in research only been able to account for moderate weight gain in subjects. To test this, they've had participants who are normally thin, follow these lifestyle choices. Usually, a gain of around 30 lbs is the high, at which point, a normally thin person becomes physically ill and is unable to gain.

Predominantly, obesity greater than slight or moderate obesity is caused exclusively by genetics or epigenetics (with one key exception being psychological disorders such as compulsive eating, though that is usually not responsible for extreme weight gain even then unless paired with genetic tendency). 

This is not to say it is simple. In breeding rats, scientists have determined that obesity inheritance is a complex mixture of 15-20 genes, comprised of recessive, dominant, double dominant, and double recessive(that gets into epigenetics). So, for a person to be extremely overweight (say, 75+ lbs or more, there must be a mixture of the appropriate genetic and epigenetic traits. Furthermore, epigenetics is the study of how these genes are expressed. The best illustration of epigenetics is visible in locusts. Usually, locusts are harmless little green grasshoppers, but when pummeled repeatedly, (as happens during overpopulation), they turn in to big brown devouring migrating monsters (same genes! different expression!). Scientists now know that much of this happens in the womb. Recently, Agouti mice, genetically bred to be obese, orange, and diabetic, when fed a high antioxidant diet during pregnancy produced normal offspring, Despite their genetic baggage. 

So, what in the last fifty years has caused this horrible epidemic? Well, we understand that oxidants (carcinogens), and antioxidants have an effect. other chemicals may have an effect as well, for example, endocrine disruptors. And, our environment in the last 50 years has changed dramatically, ambient pollution is much much higher. Smoking while pregnant started in the 50's for women as a way to control weight, and smoking is a key carcinogen. Also, artificial sweeteners which are known to be carcinogenic happened primarily in the last 50 years. Flouridated water, and also medications in water supplies has continued to increase. In other words, we are bombarded daily and primarily in the womb, by the very chemicals that force undesirable genes to be expressed. 

Do we have control? Sure, we have some. THis is each person's locus of control. Some may have more than others, though, this locus of control is also somewhat genetically regulated. In my experience, each person's locus of control is about 10% of the obesity equation. So, can you lose weight? Sure, but not as easily as another person with a different genetic and epigenetic package.

Hope this clears up stuff. see next post.


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## squurp (Nov 23, 2009)

Now, let's look at the problem of obesity: 
First off, let me say that I have read this study (and am trained in social research) and it is a flawed study, in that it fails to take into account some of the following research: 
Appetite shutoff is controlled genetically, in a pretty strong way. We know this, because disorders such as Prader-Willi syndrome exist. In cases of these disorders, sufferers never feel full, even if their stomachs are full to the point of bursting. Clearly, this is not at all environmental, and, it is not eating like pigs, and it is not the fault of poor parenting.
All in all, appetite, though, has only a small part in the obesity complex. How do some people stay thin all their lives, eating the worst junk, while others eat decent, and end up obese? It's not all self control. Scientists know now that obesity is a complex genetic issue, including genetic traits, and environmental triggers. From Discover Magazine (http://discovermagazine.com/2007/may/mendel2019s-mouse):Recently Churchill and his Jackson Laboratory colleagues decided to go after some big genetic game, the gene network that controls body weight. "With 300 million people now suffering from obesity worldwide, fat has become a global epidemic.. . .The map they came up with looks like a flowchart from hell. Churchills group identified a dozen sites in the mouse genome where genes are influencing the body weight of mice. But the genes have different effects. Some make mice large-bodied, and being big makes mice more likely to get fat. But they also found genes that had separate effects on both body size and fat levels. In some cases, the same gene could make a mouse both big and lean. Other genes influenced only how fat the mice were, with no effect on their body size. Still other genes determined the size of different fat pads. One region of mouse DNA appears to make mice fat overall while actually making the fat pads on their haunches smaller."
Further research is presented in the book "Rethinking Thin", By Gina Kolata(http://www.amazon.com/dp/0374103984/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20)
Incidentally, a summary of this article shown on your show was written by Gina Kolata, so I am quite sure it was misrepresented and misinterpretted. 
This book presented peer reviewed research linking obesity to exposure to cigarette smoking during gestation, and also presented large government funded research interventions which show massive expensive efforts at dietary change in communities has no effect whatsoever on obesity within a community. Now, back to smoking while pregnant; this gets into epigenomics, a relatively new area of genetics. This link between obesity ad smoking while pregnant has to do with the methylation cycle. Have a look at this article:http://discovermagazine.com/2006/nov/cover/?searchterm=epigenomics
So, what your mother does while she is pregnant, makes a huge difference. So, it may be that we are getting fatter, but perhaps the cause of this has more to do with smoking, aspartame, and plenty of other environmental triggers that interrupt the methylation cycle.
However, the diet industry has gotten their fingers into things too. In 1998, after intense lobbying by the diet industry, the BMI was changed so everyone was obese(http://edition.cnn.com/HEALTH/9806/03/weight.measure/index.html)
therefore providing them with lots more people to sell ineffective diet products to.
However, are we really getting more obese? And, does obesity mean poor health. Well, the CDC published scientific reports and then had to do plenty of retracting. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8902-2004Nov23.html)
Good research is hard to find in the obesity world. SO, let's talk about what I think is really going on with this whole obesity and social groups research thing. it is simply this. Due to organizations like Meme Roth, and other people like her, which you all feel like putting on TV, overweight or obese people are socially maligned. In many cases they are like Lepers. SO, who are they going to hang out with? well, with other lepers, or other fat people. If you ask any person who has grown up fat, this is completely obvious. And while genetic tendencies can run in families, obesity may be slightly hereditary, it is NOT contagious. This is bad science, and your presentation does considerable harm to many people all over the country. I hope you can present a more tolerant view on your show in the future, instead of doing your part to ruin people's lives.

Response to the idea that sugar causes diabetes:

This is absolute HOOEY!!!!


You ought to not pay attention to the diet hype. Ok, let's go through this:
Carbs are a basic formula consisting basically of Carbon, Hydrogen and Hydroxyl elements. Sucrose (table sugar) is a Carbohydrate. Sucrose is a composite of Glucose and Fructose.(http://www.biology-online.org/9/1_chemical_composition.htm)
Glucose has a chemical composition is C6H12O6, with a chemical weight of 180. Fructose is a simpler, easier to digest sugar. The ratio between Glucose to Fructose for table sugar (Sucrose) is about 50/50.

Now High Fructose Corn Syrup is also Glucose, and Fructose. Same thing! The ratio for HFCS is about 45% glucose to 55% Fructose. 

Now, really, we are talking about a miniscule difference. http://fscn.cfans.umn.edu/pf/outrea...net_october2006/high_fructose_corn_syrup.html

Neither Fructose or Glucose is bad for you. In fact, both are necessary for survival, for the most part. However, it is true, that fructose enters the body faster, sometimes spiking insulin and causing problems for diabetics. Fructose is present in most fruits and fruit juices in much higher percentages than in HFCS, by the way, and we consider that healthy.

Carbohydrates are carbohydrates, not fat.

Now, let's get rid of more hype: 

The obesity epidemic, is a product of much lobbying on the part of the diet iindustry. So much so, that millions of people be came obese or overweight overnight! Just have a look at this article:
http://edition.cnn.com/HEALTH/9806/03/weight.measure/index.html
Now, that happened in 1998. That's about when this whole obesity scare really kicked into high gear. Its not as bad as they make it out to be, but the diet industry needed more customers. They got greedier, and more sneaky which resulted in the CDC issuing statement about there being some 300,000 deaths from obesity. Well, later on, when real scientists started checking data, the CDC had to eat its words:
http://www.consumerfreedom.com/news_detail.cfm/headline/2744
Again, it is not as bad as they make it out to be.

But let's not kid ourselves, we are somewhat fatter than generations ago. Where does this come from? Doctors are working on the answer. Appetite is part of the issue. And, we know that appetite has a large genetic element. The existence of Prader-Willi Syndrome, and inherited genetic component represents a simplification of this. Scientists have learned more about taste in recent times, which has an influence on appetite. Do you find broccoli bitter? you probably carry a genetic trait that allows you to taste a very bitter chemical in broccoli. This particular genetic trait is not the only one. 

Appetite is not the only obesity gene controlled by genetics. In fact, scientists have their eye on a pretty good estimate of how many there are, though, they don't yet know what they are. Have a look at this article:
http://discovermagazine.com/2007/may/mendel2019s-mouse

But if this is true, then, wouldn't people have been fat all along? Well, maybe. But, maybe these genetic traits have an environmental trigger. That is where the methylation cycle, and epigenomics comes in. This new field REALLY fills in the holes, as to how obesity happens. Take a look:
http://discovermagazine.com/2006/nov/cover/?searchterm=methylation

So, from this article, did your mother smoke while she was pregnant with you? Smoking, and other factors interrupt the methylation cycle and the epigenomics pattern, and this can lead to obesity and and diabetes. 

Well, Ms. Gina Kolata has done some research into all of this. Research shows that what happens in the womb has ALOT more power than what you can do right now. Millions of dollars of government money has been spent on intervention programs, changing the diets of whole towns. The result? Well, nothing. Meaning, nothing changed. No matter how they ate, kids and adults were just as fat or thin as ever. If you'd like to know more about that, you can buy and read her book:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0374103984/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Anyway, I hope this public service announcement has been informative, and leads you all to a better understanding of obesity, etc. etc.


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## thatgirl08 (Nov 23, 2009)

orin said:


> .... I think some people ... are genetically prone towards being bigger ... like me
> 
> but I chose not to let my genetics win and workout and pump up
> 
> i think STAYING FAT IS A CHOICE !!!





orin said:


> Staying FAT is a bad choice ... if it is causing problems ... if it is not then ... i feel that if that person is comfortable being bigger ... there is no reason to change PERIOD



If you feel this way, why are you here?


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## bigmac (Nov 24, 2009)

squurp said:


> Obesity is not a simplistic issue. unavailability of good food, lack of recreational opportunities, and related issues, has in research only been able to account for moderate weight gain in subjects. To test this, they've had participants who are normally thin, follow these lifestyle choices. Usually, a gain of around 30 lbs is the high, at which point, a normally thin person becomes physically ill and is unable to gain.
> 
> Predominantly, obesity greater than slight or moderate obesity is caused exclusively by genetics or epigenetics (with one key exception being psychological disorders such as compulsive eating, though that is usually not responsible for extreme weight gain even then unless paired with genetic tendency).
> 
> ...



I agree with a lot of what you say including your conclusion that individual people have only limited control over their weight (especially once they become adults). However, I think you misinterpreted some of my points and some of the scientific literature. The important lesson to be drawn is not that its impossible to turn a thin person (lean genotype) into a fat person -- the important lesson is that environmental factors over which we may collectively (if not individually) have some control determine the phenotypical expression of the obese genotype. Such persons will in all likelihood always be large to some degree -- the question is will they be a healthy active 250lb person or a 500lb person with limited mobility and comorbidities?

For example (hypothetically), take twin boys with a genetic propensity toward obesity and separate them at birth; place one with a family who eats nothing but the best organic produce and free range critters and who are physically active; and place the second with a family who thinks chicken nuggets are health food and playing Xbox is exercise. What's the likely outcome -- i.e. the gene expression of phenotype. In all likelihood the first boy will be less fat than the second. Healthy living doesn't turn a fat person into a thin person -- the first boy just ends up at the low end of his genetically predetermined range.

Factors beyond anyone's control can come into play too (i.e. an illness during a critical period of development). For a personal example take my brother and I. Until my brother was 3 years old he was taller and heavier than me. When he was 3 he became very ill and lost a lot of weight. From that point on he was always thinner (and shorter). Being sick obviously didn't change my brother's genes -- however, it did change how they were expressed.

Getting back to the original question -- is being fat a choice? For the most part no.


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## chicken legs (Nov 24, 2009)

fat hiker said:


> No, Robert Earl Hughes wasn't rich - he was only one step away from being a hill billy! There is at least one video on Youtube made from a short movie clip of him and his parents, and their house would tell you they weren't rich. He made a living for a time as a side-show attraction, judging by the photographs. I've never seen any mention anywhere of him marrying or having kids - and his own spectacular growth was supposed to be the result of a childhood infection that somehow changed or damaged his hormonal system.




OMG

He sounds like the X-men's character The Blob and he kinda looks like him too.



wow


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## chicken legs (Nov 24, 2009)

[/URL]


bigmac said:


> Some of the arguments put forward in this tread are overly simplistic. The one thing obesity researchers agree upon is that obesity has multiple causes. In this respect obesity is like intelligence.
> 
> Most people, I assume, would like to be intelligent and educated. However, not everyone has what it takes to be a physics professor at Princeton. We can act as individuals and as a society to ensure that people maximize their potential (i.e. from prenatal nutrition to reading to our kids to supporting higher education). But in the end some people will be more accomplished than others -- that's just a fact of life. Some kids will unfortunately inherit genes that limit their intellectual potential, some will be exposed to in utero toxins that likewise limit their potential, some will grow up in neighborhoods with crappy schools ... (the list could go on forever).
> 
> ...



I would love to do a social experiment and replicate the environment that produced those great minds and bodys (like parenting class)...but only the social part...because I think the genetics will follow just by us being selective in our choice.

When I think of accepting all sizes and shapes I get all Sci-fi and think about Star Trek, Ultraviolet, and Fifth Element.


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## orin (Nov 24, 2009)

thatgirl08 said:


> If you feel this way, why are you here?



Because i am attracted to bigger women ....

BUT WHEN I WAS FAT ... BIGGER WOMEN DID NOT LIKE ME ... :-/

so i changed ... plus having to deal with trying to be in the military at a time

I LOVE BIG PEAR SHAPED WOMEN PERIOD 

but i am also very pragmatic ... i look at things from a logical standpoint

but I refuse to get into too much detail because I feel anything i post may be looked at as discriminatory against people of size.

But realistically NOT EVERY ONE CAN CARRY FAT FUNCTION WELL WITH IT WHILE OTHERS ARE PRETTY MUCH MADE TO BE BIGGER AND HAVE NO HEALTH ISSUES ...

I SAY THE ONES WITH HEALTH ISSUES SHOULD PUT EFFORT INTO CHANGING THIER SITUATIONS ...

THE ONES WHO DON'T SHOULD NOT HAVE TO LOOSE WEIGHT IF THEY ARE CONFIDENT AND LOVE THEMSELVES AS THEY ARE !!!

WHEN I WAS CHUBBY ... I WAS HEAVILY DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BY OTHER BIG WOMEN ... ONCE I LOST WEIGHT AND BUFFED UP, IT MADE IT EASIER ... SO BIGGER WOMEN I FEEL DO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST SHORTER CHUBBIER MEN ....

but thats a whole different forum post together ...


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## orin (Nov 24, 2009)

bigmac said:


> I agree with a lot of what you say including your conclusion that individual people have only limited control over their weight (especially once they become adults). However, I think you misinterpreted some of my points and some of the scientific literature. The important lesson to be drawn is not that its impossible to turn a thin person (lean genotype) into a fat person -- the important lesson is that environmental factors over which we may collectively (if not individually) have some control determine the phenotypical expression of the obese genotype. Such persons will in all likelihood always be large to some degree -- the question is will they be a healthy active 250lb person or a 500lb person with limited mobility and comorbidities?
> 
> For example (hypothetically), take twin boys with a genetic propensity toward obesity and separate them at birth; place one with a family who eats nothing but the best organic produce and free range critters and who are physically active; and place the second with a family who thinks chicken nuggets are health food and playing Xbox is exercise. What's the likely outcome -- i.e. the gene expression of phenotype. In all likelihood the first boy will be less fat than the second. Healthy living doesn't turn a fat person into a thin person -- the first boy just ends up at the low end of his genetically predetermined range.
> 
> ...



WELL STATED ...

yes .. for the MOST PART NO ...

some have it easier than others to get smaller and loose weight ... some are just made to be bigger period ... but all i am saying is that it is not IMPOSSIBLE to be smaller ..... BUT BEING SMALLER IS NOT FOR EVERYONE ...

for instance my sister was always a BBW ... she lost alot of weight and was sick all the time ...because her body was not made to be that size that she was and she gained the weight back and stopped getting sick 

in short ....

THE GENETIC PROPENSITY TO BE FAT CAN FOUGHT BUT AT WHAT COST .... YOUR SANITY
YOUR HEALTH
YOUR HAPPINESS
YOUR SENSE OF SELF 

IN MANY CASES WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO GET SMALLER IS SIMPLE JUST NOT WORTH IT PERIOD !!!!!!
 
NOW I AM 5'6" .... SEE ... I HAVE NO CHOICE ... I WOULD LOVE TO BE 6'2" BUT WILL NEVER BE TALL .... NOW THATS SOMETHING I CAN NEVER CHANGE ... EVER


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## chicken legs (Nov 24, 2009)

orin said:


> Because i am attracted to bigger women ....
> 
> BUT WHEN I WAS FAT ... BIGGER WOMEN DID NOT LIKE ME ... :-/
> 
> ...



lol 

I have to admitt I look better when I'm fit...wish i looked sexy chunky or fit but ..reality is I have to hit the gym..lol


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## squurp (Nov 24, 2009)

bigmac said:


> For example (hypothetically), take twin boys with a genetic propensity toward obesity and separate them at birth; place one with a family who eats nothing but the best organic produce and free range critters and who are physically active; and place the second with a family who thinks chicken nuggets are health food and playing Xbox is exercise. What's the likely outcome -- i.e. the gene expression of phenotype. In all likelihood the first boy will be less fat than the second. Healthy living doesn't turn a fat person into a thin person -- the first boy just ends up at the low end of his genetically predetermined range.



Actually, these experiments have been done inadvertently, where identical twins have been adopted into separate families. In almost every case, despite eating habits, the twins are within 10-20 lbs of each other, and where the same size clothing. In the cases where that was not the case, there was some illness such as cancer or what not.


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## name2come (Nov 26, 2009)

thatgirl08 said:


> If you feel this way, why are you here?



Lust and respect do not always go together. He's happy to be sexually attracted to fat women, but insists on still retaining the cultural attitude that they are too stupid to lose weight. I'm not saying its an especially moral position, but its certainly not an uncommon one.


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## thatgirl08 (Nov 27, 2009)

orin said:


> Because i am attracted to bigger women ....
> 
> BUT WHEN I WAS FAT ... BIGGER WOMEN DID NOT LIKE ME ... :-/
> 
> ...



well i see what you're saying and i think you're somewhat right BUT THE THING IS YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T TELL RANDOM PEOPLE HERE THAT THEY MAY WANT TO LOSE WEIGHT OR INSIST THAT IT'S AN EASY THING TO DO BECAUSE IT'S NOT FOR MOST PEOPLE HERE.......


MANY OF US DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE THE SIZE WE ARE AND YET HAVE DIFFICULTY CHANGING IT...... NOT NECESSARILY REFERRING TO MYSELF..... GENERAL OBSERVATION, ETC.


ALSO...... PROBABLY BEST NOT TO ACCUSE AN ENTIRE POPULATION (bbws) of BEING DICRIMINATORY. LOOKS BAD, ETC.


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## fatlane (Nov 28, 2009)

To answer the OP, there are some people who did not choose to be fat but, for lack of something better to do with their metabolism, are fat.

Then there are women who are selling "fat as a choice" every day on their paysites.

Therefore, the best answer is, "Depends upon the individual."


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## thatgirl08 (Nov 29, 2009)

fatlane said:


> Then there are women who are selling "fat as a choice" every day on their paysites.



I've said this before and I'll say it again.. paysite girls and their associated content and personalities are NOT an accurate representation of BBW's just as Playboy is not an accurate representation of thin women. Like you said, they are SELLING something.. they are selling an idea, a fantasy.. they are not representing the life of the average fat girl.


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## fatlane (Nov 29, 2009)

thatgirl08 said:


> I've said this before and I'll say it again.. paysite girls and their associated content and personalities are NOT an accurate representation of BBW's just as Playboy is not an accurate representation of thin women. Like you said, they are SELLING something.. they are selling an idea, a fantasy.. they are not representing the life of the average fat girl.



Exactly. It works to sell subscriptions, but in the end analysis, it ain't reality. 

As for the reality, there are people who choose to stay the way they are and people who choose to change. We have to accept all types unless we want to start using terms like "weight traitor" to describe someone that lost a few pounds.


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## ladle (Nov 29, 2009)

ooops....misread the topic, thought it was kids talking back in the 80's

"Being Fat is Choice!"


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## bigmac (Nov 30, 2009)

orin said:


> THE GENETIC PROPENSITY TO BE FAT CAN FOUGHT BUT AT WHAT COST .... YOUR SANITY
> YOUR HEALTH
> YOUR HAPPINESS
> YOUR SENSE OF SELF
> ...



This is a great point. Three times in my adult life I've been able to work myself into a relatively thin state -- but always at extreme cost. The first time I failed my freshman year of college because I was spending four hours a day at the gym. The second time was during my stint in the Army where basically everything is provided for you and all you have to do is train (a situation not easily replicated in real life). The third time was when I put myself through the Police Academy (FYI, unlike in most states where recruits are paid to go to the Academy after they have been hired in California most would be cops pay to put themselves through Academies at local colleges before they are hired) -- between work, commuting, and Academy classes and training I got by on about 4 hours of sleep a night of nine months -- I lost 40 pounds, my social life, and almost my sanity.


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## aussieamazonwoman (Nov 30, 2009)

Hi all, my name is K and I am relatively new to Dimensions. I really want to make some comments on this topic and perhaps tell you a little more about my story....

I think fatness and obesity has a variety of causes, hell, a team of specialists worked on me from the age of 4 years old, and I'm still fat - maybe I would be fatter now if it weren't for the "interventions" I had as a child, teen and adult.

I believe every person who carries weight has their own story, their own situation and their own response to that situation. 

As for what "causes" fatness - I believe there are a variety of causes including: genetics, overeating, food allergies, desire to be overweight, lack of exercise, medical conditions (e.g. thyroid, other hormone disorders, diabetes etc...) stress, emotional and psychological issues including trauma and probably a plethora of other reasons I haven't even heard of. I think there is generally more fatness in the Western world today than when I was a kid and I think SOME of this is due to trans-fats and other bad stuff in processed foods, the sedentary lifestyle most of us lead compared to 50 years ago and the diet industry.

here's my story (it might be a bit long - apologies in advance).....

I was a 10 pound big bouncy baby girl, adopted by beautiful parents at the age of 6 weeks old. I had panic attacks for the first 2 years of my life (I believe this was the trauma of being separated from my birth mother).

I was always very tall, and very *big* for my age. I was taken to a doctors and dietitcians from 4 years of age, my Dad, being an athlete, had me swimming before I could string sentences together and I trained seriously from the age of 7. I was still fat. I always held fat on my arms particularly and tummy. 

At the age of 11, I was put on a program, where they kept me in hospital and I was closely monitored - they controlled everything I ate, the amount of exercise I did and I was forced to see a psychologist. I lost a bit of weight and remember I was 67 kilos or 147 pounds at this age. One week I gained 1.3 kilos and they kicked me off the program because they believed I had somehow sneaked "bad food" into my diet. I hadn't and was devastated and felt like a failure.

From this point I became severely depressed and I feel sorry for my Mum, who I felt was ashamed she had such a "fat" daughter. I know she always loved me incredibly and I think as a teenager I wasn't very kind to her.

As a teen, I was monitored very closely by an endocrinologist who was also checking out how tall I was going to grow and happened to be one of Australia's leading researchers on childhood obesity. I remember after some tests she rang me and told me I would be 6 foot one inches tall. I cried a lot, thinking I was already a freak and this just seemed to confirm it for me.

One thing though, this particular endocrinologist was really lovely and sensitive, She told me in no uncertain terms, I was like a "very efficient machine", my metabolism was just slow. No major medical problems, (in fact i was/am healthy on the whole). She also told me I was always going to be a big girl, but there was no reason I couldn't eat well, move and have a normal life expectancy. 

I believe contributing factors to my weight are: amazon woman genes, trauma, a wheat allergy, hormones (particularly stress hormones) and always being led to belive something was *wrong* with me.


Anyway there is lots more to this story, but I'm sure I've bored everyone enough. Another day, I will write about my wild adolescence, my struggle through self loathing, not eating, tracking down my birth family to find out I come from a LONG line of big fat women genetically, the frogs I have kissed, taking drugs to lose weight and everything else.

For now though, I am 6 foot one inches tall, about 275 pounds, very curvy, still have fat arms, big boobs and a pudgy belly with stretch marks, but at the age of 36 I can honestly say that every day I look in a full length mirror naked and find something I love about my body.


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## fatlane (Nov 30, 2009)

One of the best answers ever. Props to you, AussieAmazon.


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## orin (Nov 30, 2009)

name2come said:


> Lust and respect do not always go together. He's happy to be sexually attracted to fat women, but insists on still retaining the cultural attitude that they are too stupid to lose weight. I'm not saying its an especially moral position, but its certainly not an uncommon one.



LOL what an assumption .....

read the rest of my posts ... then tell me if u feel the same way ...


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## orin (Nov 30, 2009)

Interesting story miss AusieAmazon ... you remind me of sweet girl i went to HS with .... she was the same .... even in pictures as a baby she was big ... but she did not really eat much, when she would try to loose weight it always failed ... and she put in effort ....

now .... how she did start loosing was by an experiment she did 

she just drank water and took some wierd pills to kill her appetite for a week ... she lost weight but also she almost died from that too ....

my point is ... it is possible ... but for some ... the PRICE of loosing weight is just WAY too much ... some peoples bodies will not change easily .....

like you Aussie ... u did loose some weight ... but your body is not meant to be smaller ... i can assume u have no real health problems and probably very athletic since your father trained u from so young .... if it is not broken dont fix it 

it is not affecting your physical health ... so .. no need to change it to suit someone elses view


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## orin (Nov 30, 2009)

thatgirl08 said:


> well i see what you're saying and i think you're somewhat right BUT THE THING IS YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T TELL RANDOM PEOPLE HERE THAT THEY MAY WANT TO LOSE WEIGHT OR INSIST THAT IT'S AN EASY THING TO DO BECAUSE IT'S NOT FOR MOST PEOPLE HERE.......
> 
> 
> MANY OF US DID NOT CHOOSE TO BE THE SIZE WE ARE AND YET HAVE DIFFICULTY CHANGING IT...... NOT NECESSARILY REFERRING TO MYSELF..... GENERAL OBSERVATION, ETC.
> ...




i never implied it was easy ... it was really hard for me, until i had to do some extreme type stuff to be able to loose it !!!! 

and in my experiences ... BBW's at times reject me because i am not tall ... a taller man will make them feel more comfortable i guess .... but thats how i feel i guess ... but u r right ... not all BBW feel like this.

All i am saying is that.... it is NOT IMPOSSIBLE to get smaller 

IMPROBABLE .. .yea
NOT WORTH IT .... yea
UNNATURAL .... yea for some people
DIFFICULT .... hells yea
SANITY DRAINING ... yea

IMPOSSIBLE ... no 

like i said before .... for some people it is simply JUST NOT WORTH IT !!!


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## Teleute (Nov 30, 2009)

Orin, I think I see what you're saying, but I think your message got pretty garbled on the way.  Not using all caps and spelling things out will go a long way toward getting people to hear what you're saying. It might not be fair, but a lot of people instantly dismiss posts with all capital letters or abbreviations like "u r" because it comes across as shouting or dumb, so avoiding that kind of stuff will get you far in this community. 

That said, I interpret what you're saying as "it's physically possible for anyone to lose weight, but it might not be healthy or the best thing for them to do". I agree with this, and I think it's an important message that the general public has yet to pick up on. You said something else, though, which was "if someone is having health problems due to their weight they should lose it". This implies that losing the weight is always possible to do *in a healthy way*, and I don't think that's true. Take aussieamazon's example, but imagine if she had diabetes or another issue that is traditionally thought of as being weight-related. The only way she could lose weight, even if she were trying really hard, would be to essentially starve herself - the sudden weight gain at the hospital program when she hadn't changed her healthy eating and exercise habits is proof of this. Physically possible? Sure, but starving yourself isn't healthy for anyone, even if they have weight-related medical problems. 

Regarding your own weight loss and body image issues - I'm sorry you felt rejected due to your weight and height, but I'm glad you understand that it's not ALL BBWs who feel that way. There's a board on here for BHMs (big handsome men) and the women who love them, and there are plenty of BBWs who participate on that board (I like short & chubby myself ) I'm sorry you felt you HAD to change your appearance, although I am glad you're feeling better about yourself these days. 

Aussieamazonwoman, thank you for sharing your story! It's not boring at all - I appreciate your openness, and I think it's a great example of how health and size are not always connected. :bow:


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## orin (Nov 30, 2009)

Teleute said:


> Orin, I think I see what you're saying, but I think your message got pretty garbled on the way.  Not using all caps and spelling things out will go a long way toward getting people to hear what you're saying. It might not be fair, but a lot of people instantly dismiss posts with all capital letters or abbreviations like "u r" because it comes across as shouting or dumb, so avoiding that kind of stuff will get you far in this community.
> 
> That said, I interpret what you're saying as "it's physically possible for anyone to lose weight, but it might not be healthy or the best thing for them to do". I agree with this, and I think it's an important message that the general public has yet to pick up on. You said something else, though, which was "if someone is having health problems due to their weight they should lose it". This implies that losing the weight is always possible to do *in a healthy way*, and I don't think that's true. Take aussieamazon's example, but imagine if she had diabetes or another issue that is traditionally thought of as being weight-related. The only way she could lose weight, even if she were trying really hard, would be to essentially starve herself - the sudden weight gain at the hospital program when she hadn't changed her healthy eating and exercise habits is proof of this. Physically possible? Sure, but starving yourself isn't healthy for anyone, even if they have weight-related medical problems.
> 
> ...



Sometimes I express myself in haste, maybe I should take the time to adequately state my opinions. If text book english is required to be heard on this forum then that is what I shall adhere to from this point on.

I agree that not all weight-loss methods are healthy, alas those who are afflicted with difficulties because of their stature might also have challenges to loose weight also. If one is has a complication, brought on by their weight, and also cannot loose the weight in a healthy manner, then they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. 

I am not physician, but I would imagine living a healthy lifestyle could help one to approach a more healthy state. A lot of people mistake size for health, for this is not the case. There are some heavier people who are more active and more healthy than your average person. For instance, i notice a lot of female softball players have a more rubenesque build, but the sport requires a lot of running, that even a thinner average person cannot do.

I hope this clears up a lot of the misunderstandings that were perceived from my previous emotionally charged and rushed rants


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Nov 30, 2009)

I understand what Orin is saying, I believe.

IF I never ate a piece of chocolate, a chip or cookie again
IF I exercised 90 or more minutes a day
IF I limited myself to 1200 calories a day
IF I took up strength training

I MIGHT get down to 150 lbs and stay there- I consciously decided after exercising an hour a day and eating nothing but lean proteins, fruits, veggies and limiting carbs that it wasn't worth it....and this was ten years ago with a faster metabolism. (I could never get under 200 lbs btw....) 
At 150-170 lbs someone is still going to call me fat and try to tell me how to live my life. I know that from personal experience. 

Some people out in the world might view it as "giving up" or "being lazy" but those people haven't lived my life so I have a choice: Make other people that don't love or even know me well happy.....or make myself happy. 

The decision there was kind of obvious....snickers and pizza have always made better friends than some of the assclowns I have met out in the world.

Being fat.....keeps other people "honest", at least on some level, sometimes. Yeah, I consciously chose it.


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## fatlane (Nov 30, 2009)

Over size 2? FAT FAT THE WATER RAT

Under size 4? DAMN GIRL U ANOREXIC

Therefore, pity most the women that are size 3... they got it both ways. AND THEY DID NOT CHOOSE THAT FATE!


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