# Is it harder to come out as an FA or an FFA?



## wafflecone (Jun 25, 2013)

I'm curious to hear thoughts on this. As an FFA, I have only ever told one person--a significant other I trusted very much--about my preferences, and it was one of the most terrifying experiences of my life. I think a few friends have caught on without my saying anything, though I don't think they realize the extent of my preferences. I have no idea how they'd take it if I actually talked about it explicitly, though.

What do you think?


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## agouderia (Jun 25, 2013)

Apart from maybe confessing a die-hard SSBHM-fetish, I think FFA have the easier lot. It's socially widely accepted that a man should be bigger than a woman in a relationship - 90% of all women would probably subscribe to wanting their guy to be bigger than they are.

Even among slim, fitness oriented women you'll find many who'll openly state things like: "He's so much more relaxed when he isn't dieting, more comfortable with those 25 pounds more, so it's better for both of us." Or decided non-FFA's saying: "His belly is such a comfy love pillow." And tolerance for such views and perceptions is pretty mainstream. 

The bear/teddy bear physique still meets rather broad social recognition up to a much higher weight level than is tolerated for women.

What also plays a role is that - since female sexuality often is marginalized - it's considered less of a weird sexual fetish, more of an understable comfort and security preference.

FA's - who like women above the low admissible 'curvy' threshold of dress size US12/UK16 - immediately have to fight the war on two fronts that it's 
a) a despicable sexual fetish
b) counter-cultural to all norms in society.


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## Tad (Jun 25, 2013)

I would suggest that this is one of those areas where if you could somehow find the 'average' experience for male FA and that of female FA, there would probably be some difference between those two averages. BUT that the spread within either group would be far larger that the difference between the averages. Picture two overlaping dart boards, where the bullseye of one is inside the triple-point ring of the other.

In other words, my suspicion is that the experience will vary far more based on your family, friends, co-workers, and local micro-culture than it will on gender.

Having said that, I'd mostly agree with Agouderia, with some added distinctions on the male side of things (perhaps these distinctions apply on the female side too, but I'll let someone better qualified comment on that).

- I don't think that guys would generally get too much flack for having sex with a fat woman. Some will think it is gross, but enough would either not care, or give a kind of understanding nod--and even that first group will not generally make a huge deal about it (barring jerks, but jerks will be jerks about all sorts of things). 

- Where I think guys get flack is for choosing to go out with a fat woman--or really anyone who would fall under 'Couldn't you do better than her?' 

- BUT, and this is important, once the initial choice part is out of the equation, if a guy is with a woman who seems to treat him well, and the impression is that they are sexually content, I don't think there is really much pressure on him. Guys, at least in part of the culture, are not expected to control their wife's appearance (it being generally understood that the job description goes the other way around). 

In other words: one night stand or friends with benefits, with a fat woman, you'll get some odd looks and comments, but no real opposition. Dating a fat woman, you will get push-back. Having been married for 5+ years (or having kids together) with a fat woman is just sort of one of those things.

It is the choosing to date part that is most often associated with coming out of the closet, so in that regard it may be harder for guys, on average. But that is not the only situation (for example, imagine moving to a new town to take up a new job, and you meet all these new people for the first time, and introduce them to your super-sized partner. I'm not sure that this would be harder on a male FA than a female one).


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## Saoirse (Jun 25, 2013)

If you make "coming out" a big deal, then it will be. This whole thing irks the shit out of me. Are we fucking still in high school? Lets call an assembly so one person can fill us in on their sexual preferences. Date who you want and people will take the hint. No need for a sit-down and big reveal.


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## Tad (Jun 25, 2013)

Good point, Saoirse. 

In my case I just dated her, made it clear I was crazy about her, and ignored all hints that there was anything undesirable about her, and eventually people stopped making those hints. There was never any grand reveal of my sexual preferences.


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## Dromond (Jun 25, 2013)

I never even thought about it as being a "coming out" thing. My second girlfriend was a big gal, and I liked it so much I never dated another thin woman. It was no big thang, I just did it.

It helped that I didn't get any blowback from family. My mom was a BBW, and my dad a FA. I guess you could say liking big gals runs in the family.


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## kronoman (Jun 30, 2013)

Just be natural, when I was about 17 I started saying to my friends on the clubs
- hey that girl looks hot
- who? the fat one?
- yup

and so they started to realize what I liked, and now everybody I know nows, and Im not shy to openly say what I like and even I can go and say to a big woman, hey you are beautiful!

I have even discovered some female friends that like big boys, I had a friend that had a very obese boyfriend, then another, and another, and I said, hey you like them fat and she confessed me everything, that even she enjoyed watching them eat and all.

I think there is a significant % of population that likes a bigger partner, just they are shy to openly say it, or they dont realize it


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## amidsttundra (Jun 30, 2013)

Saoirse said:


> If you make "coming out" a big deal, then it will be. This whole thing irks the shit out of me. Are we fucking still in high school? Lets call an assembly so one person can fill us in on their sexual preferences. Date who you want and people will take the hint. No need for a sit-down and big reveal.



Lol, always been my attitude. My parents found out when they saw the internet history when I was 13. Never seen the point in hiding it since, but then I don't make a point of introducing myself as preferring fat girls either.

I get the feeling it's people who are excessively self aware that fear how they'll look to others when it comes to dating bigger girls. I couldn't care less, it's my life, you only get one why live in fear and repression.


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## EverybodysDracula (Jul 4, 2013)

I think this would be a bigger issue for me if I actually had a girlfriend to date.

It's not a question of if it's harder, it's a matter of the difficulty of me wooing a lovely BBW lady to begin with and THEN I can worry about being shamed by society. Considering my mother's kind of chubby I don't think she'll care. Which would get me worried my BBW preference is Oedipal if it weren't for the fact that the vast majority of BBWs I find attractive look nothing like my mother.

Man this got awkward fast.


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## Librarygirl (Jul 5, 2013)

It hasn't been that hard hinting to friends that I like chubbier guys. What is hard is trying to convey to a bigger guy you like that you are attracted to him physically as well as being his friend. Like today I ended up telling the man in question about my teenage crush on a teacher. He asked what my French teacher was like and I said 'nearly as old as my parents and kind of short and plump'. But while I was trying to get across that this IS attractive to me (well not so much the way older thing anymore),I'm worried it might have seemed to him (a short , chubby guy) that I meant this as a negative thing - as if I share my friends more 'conventional' ideas of what is attractive. Arghh! So hard!


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## BearHug2013 (Jul 8, 2013)

Librarygirl said:


> It hasn't been that hard hinting to friends that I like chubbier guys. What is hard is trying to convey to a bigger guy you like that you are attracted to him physically as well as being his friend. Like today I ended up telling the man in question about my teenage crush on a teacher. He asked what my French teacher was like and I said 'nearly as old as my parents and kind of short and plump'. But while I was trying to get across that this IS attractive to me (well not so much the way older thing anymore),*I'm worried it might have seemed to him (a short , chubby guy) that I meant this as a negative thing - as if I share my friends more 'conventional' ideas of what is attractive. Arghh! So hard!*



As a bigger fella, I've always thought this would be the easiest thing in the world. And I personally would be flattered if a platonic friend was an ffa and said I was hot (it would definitely help me confirm that you gals actually exist). Just empathize your interest in bigger dudes. Make sure to encourage the thought "I did and still do like bhm's" instead of "I can't believe I had a crush on that fat ass". It's all about how you say it than what you say. 

P.S. Good luck LG 

P.S.S. I still believe all you lovely ladies are figment of my imagination


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## HeavyDuty24 (Jul 9, 2013)

BearHug2013 said:


> As a bigger fella, I've always thought this would be the easiest thing in the world. And I personally would be flattered if a platonic friend was an ffa and said I was hot (it would definitely help me confirm that you gals actually exist). Just empathize your interest in bigger dudes. Make sure to encourage the thought "I did and still do like bhm's" instead of "I can't believe I had a crush on that fat ass". It's all about how you say it than what you say.
> 
> P.S. Good luck LG
> 
> P.S.S. I still believe all you lovely ladies are figment of my imagination



It just seems that i think it is more common knowledge that alot of guys like bigger woman(although it's not all that out there, but it is moreso there). But you don't see it as much where women like bigger guys LOL.


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## choudhury (Jul 9, 2013)

Personally I don't like the Freudian age we live in, where private matters like sexual preference are expected to be announced from the rooftops. I never 'came out' per se. I just dated BBWs and my wife of 15 years is a BBW. People seem to know better than to prod me about it. When my parents raised that BS issue of being concerned about my wife's 'health' I told them I never wanted to hear another word out of their mouths about her weight, and I never have. Basically, it's nobody's damned business but mine and hers.


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## Librarygirl (Jul 9, 2013)

BearHug2013 said:


> As a bigger fella, I've always thought this would be the easiest thing in the world. And I personally would be flattered if a platonic friend was an ffa and said I was hot (it would definitely help me confirm that you gals actually exist). Just empathize your interest in bigger dudes. Make sure to encourage the thought "I did and still do like bhm's" instead of "I can't believe I had a crush on that fat ass". It's all about how you say it than what you say.
> 
> P.S. Good luck LG
> 
> P.S.S. I still believe all you lovely ladies are figment of my imagination



Thank you  This is appreciated more than you know. I will keep trying. My situation (as ever) is complicated, but today has sucked...Hours of chatting to this guy and sharing all sorts about our lives (after suddenly getting closer having known each other for years) and since that conversation he now seems to be making excuses not to talk, only being professional and talking about work. I can only hope there is some work-stress thing going on and we will be back on track as friends at least tomorrow.

WE ARE REAL!!! If only you big guys knew what it is like! I sit there at work unable to take my eyes off my friend, wishing his gorgeous chubby hands were around my waist and I was 'allowed' to touch his belly....

All I can say...Is just pay attention and don't assume a girl is looking cos she disapproves. I think we just worry that if a guy has had a lot of negative attention / is self-conscious, it may come over as insincere if we go on about liking his appearance / drawing attention to his size. Sigh.....When really our imaginations are running wild!! Thank goodness for this place!


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## BearHug2013 (Jul 9, 2013)

Librarygirl said:


> Thank you  This is appreciated more than you know. I will keep trying. My situation (as ever) is complicated, but today has sucked...Hours of chatting to this guy and sharing all sorts about our lives (after suddenly getting closer having known each other for years) and since that conversation he now seems to be making excuses not to talk, only being professional and talking about work. I can only hope there is some work-stress thing going on and we will be back on track as friends at least tomorrow.
> 
> WE ARE REAL!!! If only you big guys knew what it is like! I sit there at work unable to take my eyes off my friend, wishing his gorgeous chubby hands were around my waist and I was 'allowed' to touch his belly....
> 
> All I can say...Is just pay attention and don't assume a girl is looking cos she disapproves. I think we just worry that if a guy has had a lot of negative attention / is self-conscious, it may come over as insincere if we go on about liking his appearance / drawing attention to his size. Sigh.....When really our imaginations are running wild!! Thank goodness for this place!



Now this maybe my crazy man logic talking, but have you tried being direct? You do know you can make the first move don't. You?
Otherwise you may never know...
Maybe it's self-preservation. Maybe he thinks your just being friendly and is backing off to save himself embaracement he thinks he'd endure. 

A lot if bigger guys aren't inclined to believe we'll be the object of someone's affection, and no it's not easy to overcome, expect resistance. 
We're raised on the notion that our bodies are such dissadvantage that our personality has to be damn perfect, show him wrong. 
Now if you'll excuse me I'm going back to my dark corner


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## tankyguy (Jul 9, 2013)

Librarygirl said:


> Thank you  This is appreciated more than you know. I will keep trying. My situation (as ever) is complicated, but today has sucked...Hours of chatting to this guy and sharing all sorts about our lives (after suddenly getting closer having known each other for years) and since that conversation he now seems to be making excuses not to talk, only being professional and talking about work. I can only hope there is some work-stress thing going on and we will be back on track as friends at least tomorrow.



Like BearHug2013 said, he may have started feeling something for you and then pulled back because he's afraid he's misinterpreting friendly actions as something more.

If you think this could be the case try being more direct. Let him know you're into bigger guys, but don't connect it to him right away. Let it sink in and see if he can do the math.

If the lightbulb goes off, congrats. Now all you have to do is find out how he feels, and being a guy you can just ask.

If he still doesn't get it, I think you pretty much have to spell it out for him.

An alternate suggestion:
Ask him if he can fasten a necklace for you. After he does it, smile at him and tell him you wish you had a guy like him around all the time for stuff like that.

You're basically hitting a Trifecta for signaling interest in a guy:

1. Breaking the touch barrier.
2. Smiling at him.
3. Making him feel wanted/appreciated.

Of course, my relationship history is almost non-existent so take my suggestion with a grain of salt.


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## wafflecone (Jul 10, 2013)

Librarygirl said:


> WE ARE REAL!!! If only you big guys knew what it is like! I sit there at work unable to take my eyes off my friend, wishing his gorgeous chubby hands were around my waist and I was 'allowed' to touch his belly....



This right here basically explains a large portion of my existence. Thank you for putting it so perfectly.


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## kh818 (Jul 10, 2013)

wafflecone said:


> I'm curious to hear thoughts on this. As an FFA, I have only ever told one person--a significant other I trusted very much--about my preferences, and it was one of the most terrifying experiences of my life. I think a few friends have caught on without my saying anything, though I don't think they realize the extent of my preferences. I have no idea how they'd take it if I actually talked about it explicitly, though.
> 
> What do you think?





This is my first post on this site, or any site like this. I am new to the terminology so I apology if I get any of it mixed around. I suppose that I would be a FFA (female fat admirer)? In reply to the above quote, I think many people presume a difference between a burly manly man and one who is simply a heavy set guy. Many people would criticize and say "no, that guy is just fat." Which is obviously very hurtful, both to the man and me, the person who obviously finds them physically attractive. So no, I wouldn't say that it is easier for a FFA opposed to being an FA who is criticized for being attracted to a heavy woman.

I hope that makes sense lol. But like I said, I am new to this realm and don't want to be offensive in any way with the misuse of terminology. I am learning about as much as I can.


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## Tad (Jul 11, 2013)

KH--looks like you have the terminology figured out right  

Also, welcome to Dims--always great to see new posters! I hope we'll see you around plenty more.


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## Jim Miller (Jul 11, 2013)

It's harder to come out as a female fat admirer. By default, our society makes pretty much everything harder for females than for males (and for queer folk, harder still).

The only mitigating factor is that this same misogyny also works in reverse, meaning that males get a much bigger pass on being able to live their lives as fat people without being accosted and harassed for it all the time, thus making it less objectionable that a female would bond with a fat male than if it were the other way around.


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## Nordiques (Jul 21, 2013)

Saoirse said:


> If you make "coming out" a big deal, then it will be.



Yeah. I suspect that's part of it: it is individually difficult depending on how hard you make it for yourself.

There is some peace of mind that comes with making sure that everyone knows, though, so I wouldn't go as far as to write "coming out" off totally.

Individual circumstances make it an impossible question. It's too hard to theorize what would happen with equally-situated people because none of us have the exact same families, friends, attitudes, etc.

The best thing that can be done is to not make it hard for yourself. Know that people's reactions to you don't change who you are, and shouldn't change what you want. Realize that no matter the consequences, you, too, are doing good: one, for yourself if it makes you feel better to have it out there and two, for all the BHMs/BBWs who doubt that there are people who prefer them the way they are to know that you, in fact, do hold that preference.


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## J34 (Jul 22, 2013)

Jim Miller said:


> It's harder to come out as a female fat admirer. By default, our society makes pretty much everything harder for females than for males (and for queer folk, harder still).
> 
> The only mitigating factor is that this *same misogyny also works in reverse, meaning that males get a much bigger pass on being able to live their lives as fat people without being accosted and harassed for it all the time, thus making it less objectionable that a female would bond with a fat male than if it were the other way around*.



From what I have seen and through experience, this is true. It is an unfair double standard, I believe after time women might get the same "leeway" as men get in dating. As it stands now, women are still seen as "commodities" in the dating world in that that their highest value is their aesthetic appeal. On the other hand for example my best friend is a BHM, and he has no problem getting dates from women. 

As a guy, people will always judge your significant other by how they look first. After time most of your friends and family can see past that, but more often than not weight will always be an issue.


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## liz (di-va) (Jul 24, 2013)

RE: people saying that people are making coming out "a big deal": Some people have to come out - some don't. 

Everyone's different. Everyone's lives and cultural expectations and self-imposed limitations and psychic makeup and intensity of preferences and need for self-expression are different. Some people need to come out to come out. Some don't.

I do agree that it shouldn't be a big deal to like fatties! That's a given. 

But just because someone struggles with something you didn't doesn't mean they're doing it wrong. I know what a struggle it was for me to find a way to like myself as a fat girl. I know that there can be a struggle with coming out as an FA too. Better to encourage people to do it than to not, I think.


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## BigCutie Ellie (Jul 25, 2013)

I think it is sad that some people are not able to just love who they love whether the person is fat or thin or tall or whatever race. Society needs to get over their judgement of who is right and who is wrong for people to date and let them just openly be with who their heart leads them too. I hate it when people are judgmental and don't even give me a chance as a person. 

Now that I shared my view, unfortunately I personally feel that society seems to be less judgmental from the FFA perspective thinking oh, she just likes teddy bears! For some reason that is more acceptable even though it is not fair.


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## detroit63 (Jul 26, 2013)

Lately my bbw wife has outed me casually. I actually like it out in the open with our friends, but now feel guilty for not doing it myself. A lot of her friends are larger too. 

The younger generation has it easier this way in that they can seek out others with the same interests and not feel isolated. I didn't have anyone with the same preference growing up.
Thank you, internet! I am not weird; I am just a sub-group.


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## LifeTraveller (Jul 26, 2013)

Dromond said:


> I never even thought about it as being a "coming out" thing. My second girlfriend was a big gal, and I liked it so much I never dated another thin woman. It was no big thang, I just did it.
> 
> It helped that I didn't get any blowback from family. My mom was a BBW, and my dad a FA. I guess you could say liking big gals runs in the family.



Pretty much the same experience I had, with a smattering of kronoman's comment. My friends knew the type of girl I liked. .No real problem for me. However, I do understand the intense "peer pressure" placed on people these days. .You have to convince yourself of your preferences first, then you'll have additional strength when being open with others about them.

My late wife had the best outlook on things, and she told me really early in our relationship, "Yeah I'm a fat girl, but I'm still a girl, with the same desires and needs of any other girl. . There's just a lot more of me". Then she'd laugh.. She knew I got it. .


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## mediaboy (Jul 29, 2013)

what is this "coming out" which you speak of?


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## amidsttundra (Jul 29, 2013)

mediaboy said:


> what is this "coming out" which you speak of?



I honestly do not know. I think people with a lack of strength within their own convictions feel this need to "come out." They build it up into this uber big thing that necessitates some grandiose outting instead of, you know, just dating a fat girl. 

Just date whoever the hell you want and if people don't like it fuck 'em... who lives their lives vicariously to please peoples or meet expectations?


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## DKnight00 (Jul 29, 2013)

amidsttundra said:


> I honestly do not know. I think people with a lack of strength within their own convictions feel this need to "come out." They build it up into this uber big thing that necessitates some grandiose outting instead of, you know, just dating a fat girl.
> 
> Just date whoever the hell you want and if people don't like it fuck 'em... who lives their lives vicariously to please peoples or meet expectations?





Saoirse said:


> If you make "coming out" a big deal, then it will be. This whole thing irks the shit out of me. Are we fucking still in high school? Lets call an assembly so one person can fill us in on their sexual preferences. Date who you want and people will take the hint. No need for a sit-down and big reveal.



I'm pretty much on the level with these two comments. If you're in love with someone, male or female, whom happens to be heavy, then that's who you're in love with. If your friend give you a hard time about it, and I mean a REALLY hard time, then kick them to the curb. Usually there will always be some form of peer pressure, people change when they are in groups, and in one instance may never comment on a significant other's appearance, but as soon as the "guys" gather around, may start putting another down. You either kick that attitude to the curb and let them know that won't be tolerated ( I like this way best) , or just walk away. 

As adults especially, there really is no need for all that drama. Things are only a big deal based on how you project yourself on certain situations. Let people take advantage of you, in any way shape or form, and you will definitely have a "situation" between friends and family. Keep stern in your beliefs/confident attitude, and there will be little anyone can dish out if at all on you. Basically having them run into a brick wall indefinitely. 



Jim Miller said:


> It's harder to come out as a female fat admirer. By default, our society makes pretty much everything harder for females than for males (and for queer folk, harder still).
> 
> The only mitigating factor is that this same misogyny also works in reverse, meaning that males get a much bigger pass on being able to live their lives as fat people without being accosted and harassed for it all the time, thus making it less objectionable that a female would bond with a fat male than if it were the other way around.



I agree with this as well. Whether or not someone made a big deal about "coming out", the amount of hate there is can sometimes make you sit back and look at the situation as a whole. Big guy ? No problem, there may be a few comments here and there but nothing I feel that would make/break friendships/families. 

On the other end however, as a male, you will probably get more flak for dating a fat woman. Just that hate, hate in the media, hate of themselves, hate from other females etc., all festers up, and can really explode without notice. A simple conversation at work, or with a sibling, can turn nasty when they find out what it is you are attracted to. Simply because of what the media or others say what you should like.

I think its great that there are groups cropping up places, such as the RWHC page on facebook, in being able to combat that hate. I think it's run by a male, and periodically has pictures of men with their lovers, going to show that we ARE out there.


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## reuben6380 (Aug 21, 2013)

..seriously, having a preference for big girls is not a fetish. I like cold pizza, that's not a fetish and i dont need to come out about it either.


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## ThisIsBrian (Jan 31, 2014)

Saoirse said:


> If you make "coming out" a big deal, then it will be. This whole thing irks the shit out of me. Are we fucking still in high school? Lets call an assembly so one person can fill us in on their sexual preferences. Date who you want and people will take the hint. No need for a sit-down and big reveal.





amidsttundra said:


> I honestly do not know. I think people with a lack of strength within their own convictions feel this need to "come out." They build it up into this uber big thing that necessitates some grandiose outting instead of, you know, just dating a fat girl.
> 
> Just date whoever the hell you want and if people don't like it fuck 'em... who lives their lives vicariously to please peoples or meet expectations?




I'm a little annoyed to see that people who've never been in in the closet, nor have any external need to be, can speak with such contempt for those who are or have been.

Some people consider killing themselves before they consider coming out of the closet. 

The primary reason people are in the closet to begin with is to protect themselves from the ridicule and rejection that comes with being unusual. 

I don't know about either of you but some people are raised amongst abusive and judgmental people. Some people have a realistic expectation that revealing their sexual preferences will only gain them further judgement and further abuse. Some people's friends and families will reject them for their sexual orientation.

It's insensitive of you to belittle a conflict you've never endured and to paint yourselves as champions of a struggle you've never overcome.


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## Saoirse (Feb 3, 2014)

ThisIsBrian said:


> I'm a little annoyed to see that people who've never been in in the closet, nor have any external need to be, can speak with such contempt for those who are or have been.
> 
> Some people consider killing themselves before they consider coming out of the closet.
> 
> ...




Being gay is NOT the same as the same as being attracted to fatties. NOT AT ALL.

People have been KILLED for being gay. I went to school with a young man who was MURDERED 5 years ago being he hit on a psycho. Whens the last time we heard about a dude being murdered for liking fat chicks?

Oh thats right, we havent.

So please, for fucks sake, get over this "closet" shit.


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## Gingembre (Feb 3, 2014)

I'll be honest, I don't really get how there even is a closet for this sort of thing. Why do you need to "come out" as a FA/FFA? Do people "come out" about having a preference for different races/hair colours? Just date the people you want to date. IMO there's only a closet if you've built it yourself. And I agree that being a F(F)A has no comparison to being gay.


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## ThisIsBrian (Feb 3, 2014)

Saoirse said:


> Being gay is NOT the same as the same as being attracted to fatties. NOT AT ALL.
> 
> People have been KILLED for being gay. I went to school with a young man who was MURDERED 5 years ago being he hit on a psycho. Whens the last time we heard about a dude being murdered for liking fat chicks?
> 
> ...




If I had ever once made the comparison between being gay and liking fat women your argument would be relevant but I didn't, so it's not. You've addressed nothing I said and then you make the strongest case I've ever heard for someone staying in the closet.

Gay or straight, if you've never been in, or felt compelled to stay in, the closet maybe you should shut the fuck up on the matter. You don't know what you're talking about.


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## Dromond (Feb 3, 2014)

The "closet" terminology is borrowed from gay culture, so when you use it you need to be aware of what you're implying. Simply saying "coming out of the closet" is drawing an analogy with gays.


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## liz (di-va) (Feb 3, 2014)

All you people who scream THERE IS NO CLOSET! need to shut up and stop invalidating the experiences of both FAT WOMEN and FAs out there who are talking about it.

If you've never experienced the closet? You're lucky. If you've experienced it but didn't realize it? You're lucky there too (possibly). 

The point being: shut up and listen. You're shitting all over experiences and decisions that have far-reaching, lifelong effects.

The closet is a real place. Not everyone even thinks to live their life so they know it's there, but many people do - many people can even now build very customized versions of it for themselves in 2014. 

We fat women/people are told we are disgusting, asexual, unhealthy, bombs of early death. When you discount what it takes for some people to overcome to act on their preferences for this you are discounting MY EXPERIENCES AS A FAT WOMAN. And all the shitty miserable things that closeted behavior inflicts.

The closet is real. And the need to come out for some people is real too. Stop trashing other people's lives and their struggles, and support them. I don't mean you should support bad closeted behavior, but acknowledge the systemic problems that are in place that affect ALL OF US.


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## Saoirse (Feb 3, 2014)

Dromond said:


> The "closet" terminology is borrowed from gay culture, so when you use it you need to be aware of what you're implying. Simply saying "coming out of the closet" is drawing an analogy with gays.



yes this. thank you.


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## Saoirse (Feb 3, 2014)

liz (di-va) said:


> We fat women/people are told we are disgusting, asexual, unhealthy, bombs of early death. When you discount what it takes for some people to overcome to act on their preferences for this you are discounting MY EXPERIENCES AS A FAT WOMAN. And all the shitty miserable things that closeted behavior inflicts.
> 
> The closet is real. And the need to come out for some people is real too. Stop trashing other people's lives and their struggles, and support them. I don't mean you should support bad closeted behavior, but acknowledge the systemic problems that are in place that affect ALL OF US.



Uhm hello, fat woman talking here. How did I discount experiences of fat chicks? Oh, I didnt. Maybe "shitty closeted behavior" would cease to exist if we stopped wasting so much time on this closet and the need to get out of it.


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## liz (di-va) (Feb 3, 2014)

Saoirse said:


> Maybe "shitty closeted behavior" would cease to exist if we stopped wasting so much time on this closet and the need to get out of it.



You are making my point for me: *the closet **EXISTS*.

And you and I agree: *it* *SHOULDN'T*.

We don't move forward by pretending it doesn't exist, though.

Onward and fucking upward.


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## Saoirse (Feb 3, 2014)

fake it till you make it... IT DOESNT EXIST! *poof* it doesnt exist.


its not hard.


but people are so fucking whiny about it.


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## Blackjack (Feb 3, 2014)

Ugh, I wish people would stop whining about their experiences. What happened to them didn't actually happen because I don't believe it happened and I don't understand why my attitude is so insulting to them and others.


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## Donna (Feb 3, 2014)

If you all aren't familiar with Ash Beckham, please check out this video of her talking about the closet: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kSR4xuU07sc&desktop_uri=/watch?v=kSR4xuU07sc

She nails it as far as I'm concerned.


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## ThisIsBrian (Feb 3, 2014)

Dromond said:


> The "closet" terminology is borrowed from gay culture, so when you use it you need to be aware of what you're implying. Simply saying "coming out of the closet" is drawing an analogy with gays.





You're right. I just assumed that in the context of a thread on a size-acceptance forum with the term "come out" in it's subject line, we were all in agreement about where it is that we are "coming out" from. Apparently it's not the closet.

I personally never came out of a closet. I came out of a hole in the ground and said "Hey, everybody!! I like fat women!!" and they were like "Why didn't you hide in the closet?" and I was like, "It was full of gay people and they told me to stop appropriating their culture!! So I dug a hole in the ground and hid there instead!!"


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## AuntHen (Feb 4, 2014)

Donna said:


> If you all aren't familiar with Ash Beckham, please check out this video of her talking about the closet: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kSR4xuU07sc&desktop_uri=/watch?v=kSR4xuU07sc
> 
> She nails it as far as I'm concerned.



Great video Donna 



ThisIsBrian said:


> You're right. I just assumed that in the context of a thread on a size-acceptance forum with the term "come out" in it's subject line, we were all in agreement about where it is that we are "coming out" from. Apparently it's not the closet.
> 
> I personally never came out of a closet. I came out of a hole in the ground and said "Hey, everybody!! I like fat women!!" and they were like "Why didn't you hide in the closet?" and I was like, "It was full of gay people and they told me to stop appropriating their culture!! So I dug a hole in the ground and hid there instead!!"



Sarcastic or not, this post is gold!


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## Saoirse (Feb 4, 2014)

Coddling the "closeted" men who fuck fatties, but cant be around them in public is furthering this closet mentality. It will NEVER go away if we dont stop acknowledging it. 

and im done with this. *bows*


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## liz (di-va) (Feb 4, 2014)

Saoirse said:


> fake it till you make it... IT DOESNT EXIST! *poof* it doesnt exist.
> its not hard.


There's something to faking it til you make it, absolutely, as a tool for changing things for yourself; it's a recognized/demonstrable tenet of ideas like cognitive behavior therapy. Do better then you feel better. But as a way to handle systemic problems, not so much. To wit: 



Saoirse said:


> Coddling the "closeted" men who fuck fatties, but cant be around them in public is furthering this closet mentality. It will NEVER go away if we dont stop acknowledging it.



This is quite illogical, but bless you for thinking you can make something go away by closing your eyes.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - 

Anyhow, nobody here wants to coddle anybody that I know of. I don't. My experiences with closet cases have been really miserable and infuriating. I'm currently considering flash-mobbing a recent run-in (not totally joking). I feel your anger, Saoirse...I have a lot of it myself.

I wish there were a broader-based joint effort to make the closet an inhospitable place to live, although the forces that created it in the first place are so huge and constant, and fat people are taught to be fine with it - it's so tricky.

Personally I think changing the politics of closeted sexual behavior with regard to fat folk is often a combination of education/discussion/expression/connection/community then - yeah - ultimately a certain ruthlessness (in a way) can be necessary. Towards oneself I mean.

'Cause eventually you have to come out to come out (if you were in). There is going to be no magic golden time of fatty ascendence that makes it so accepted/attractive you won't be able to resist. But anything that helps FAs (of whatever type - pansizuals to serious fatty-lovers) get there - and get there in a solid way, i.e., not all tied in knots about health or whatever - has to be good, I figure. And good for everyone else too. The idea being to turn on the lights and let the rats of shame scuttle out, leaving people free to leave and looking silly in the glaring light if they don't. Everyone except the hard-core creepers in the back, that is, who'd be lurking there no matter what. Hah.

Getting down from the pulpit. I'd like to change all this with a wave of my wand --


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## Azrael (Feb 4, 2014)

There are variations of closeted individuals.

There are those who "fuck fatties on the side" and refuse to be seen around with their fat partner out in public. These individuals pretty much deserve all the scorn that they get for the emotional rollercoaster and general douchebaggery that they inflict on their "partner", it's perfectly understandable to loathe these people.

Then there are simply the individuals that do not express their preference. They do not secretly date fat people they simply don't date them at all due to whatever pressures they may be feeling or think they might experience.

This group does not deserve pity nor does it really deserve be loathed. They aren't secretly dating people on the side and so are not subjecting fat people to the emotional rollercoaster and douchebaggery that is common of the other group.

I'm bothered by the former (for obvious reasons) but I'm pretty neutral to the latter. In the latter's case the only people they're really harming is their own potential for happiness due to their own cowardice. If they want to live a rather unfulfilled sexual life that's fine by me but I'll still tell them it's better on this side.


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## Dromond (Feb 5, 2014)

ThisIsBrian said:


> You're right. I just assumed that in the context of a thread on a size-acceptance forum with the term "come out" in it's subject line, we were all in agreement about where it is that we are "coming out" from. Apparently it's not the closet.
> 
> I personally never came out of a closet. I came out of a hole in the ground and said "Hey, everybody!! I like fat women!!" and they were like "Why didn't you hide in the closet?" and I was like, "It was full of gay people and they told me to stop appropriating their culture!! So I dug a hole in the ground and hid there instead!!"



I have to admit, this is a pretty impressive bit of sarcasm.


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## AuntHen (Feb 5, 2014)

Saoirse said:


> Coddling the "closeted" men who fuck fatties, but cant be around them in public is furthering this closet mentality. It will NEVER go away if we dont stop acknowledging it.
> 
> and im done with this. *bows*




The assumption that all people who like fat people only want to "F" them is just that... an *assumption*. 

Sex is a variable I am sure but not everyone's lives consist of just wanting to get their rocks off. Some of these "coddled closeteers" may want a meaningful relationship but fear the pressures of society, family, etc. Does it mean it's OK to "put fattie in a corner"? No. Of course not. However, if you date or whatever with a person and they seem reluctant to be in public with you, introduce you to people in their lives, only want you for a one night stand (and that's not all that or what you want), well it's also up to the fat person to say "Hey! I won't be treated as such".

I think lumping all those with fears or hesitations into one pile is not only ignorant but wrong.

Have you ever felt pressured or insecure about *anything*, to where you just felt immobile or reluctant? I would think fat people of ALL people would understand this (at least to some degree).


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## Saoirse (Feb 5, 2014)

fat9276 said:


> Have you ever felt pressured or insecure about *anything*, to where you just felt immobile or reluctant? I would think fat people of ALL people would understand this (at least to some degree).



Pressured or insecure? Sure, all the time. But to the point of feeling immobile or reluctant? Never.

Guess im just the odd one out.


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## Tad (Feb 5, 2014)

Saoirse said:


> Pressured or insecure? Sure, all the time. But to the point of feeling immobile or reluctant? Never.
> 
> Guess im just the odd one out.



I'm sure you are far from the only one, this sort of thing will depend a lot on both personality and social setting. If approval from others is important to you, if you are uncomfortable in rocking the boat or breaking social conventions, if you have a lot to lose from seeming different, if your self-image casts you in a certain way and it is hard to shatter that, if you are already feeling under attack and don't want to be any more vulnerable ....those can all make it harder to follow your bliss (amongst other things).

Or to bring it up again: Miller's Law (from communication theory):



> To understand what another person is saying, you must assume that it is true and try to imagine what it could be true of.



Just saying "that is BS" obviously won't help you understand where they are coming from. Now, you may not care where they are coming from, but if you pretty much announce that you don't care about their experiences, feelings, or thoughts on the topic, don't be surprised when they respond in a less than gracious manner to your virtual raised middle finger.

======================================

I think this may be part of why a lot of people have commented that they find a high over-lap between groups into nerd culture and size acceptance. If you are part of one somewhat marginalized group already, admitting to another less-socially-approved preference has only a marginal social cost.

Of course, I'd rather that there be no stigma about being fat, or being involved with someone who was. I'd much rather focus on how we get there, than argue about who has it harder.


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## CleverBomb (Feb 8, 2014)

Man, I wish the system would let me rep this.


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## portapotty102 (Feb 8, 2014)

Difficulty coming out runs inverse to the person's confidence in their own sexuality, no matter female or male.


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## Ilegalpat (Feb 9, 2014)

Great point Ellie. The fact the question is being asked is troubling, in and of itself. Everyone is worthy of love.


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## CurvaceousBBWLover (Feb 16, 2014)

I really don't see why there is a need to come out. The preference is what it is, and the hell with anybody who has a problem with it!


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## wtchmel (Feb 20, 2014)

I have to agree with some of the other posters, as someone who loves big fat men, (shit, fat in general, men or women  ) saying you prefer/like big/fat men, is I believe way more accepted then a man saying he prefers/likes big/fat women. It sucks, but it it's our fucked up society. IMHO.


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## x0emnem0x (Feb 21, 2014)

I agree with some of the things said here, I definitely think being a FFA is much easier to accept, because like someone said, it's more widely accepted for a male to be bigger than the female. I've known plenty of people, even someone that has told their significant other about their preference for bigger women, and the SO didn't really accept it well. I've known other guys to like bigger women and date them when I was in high school and others immaturely called him a chubby chaser, but yet when females date bigger guys it's no problem. It's kinda weird, and with my personal preference of liking bigger guys, I definitely just think it's easier to "be" a FFA.


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## Tad (Feb 21, 2014)

I’ve been thinking about this thread, and one thing that I’ve been speculating about is whether attitudes toward big guys may vary more by socio/cultural/economic group than do attitudes towards big women.

That is, at least in North American, it seems to me that there are very few groups that have much admiration for plus sized women—some may be friendlier than others to some degree of curviness or thickness, but it is pretty limited how many will say that the same woman is better looking if her stomach is soft enough to have some jiggle to it. On the other hand there seem to be more where &#8216;a big guy’ can still almost be a compliment, presuming that he seems sufficiently manly overall (and in particular if he is tall)—but there are certainly ones that are pretty hostile to big guys, too.

Just by way of examples that I’ve seen:
- I remember being a party in Toronto, probably a decade ago, and all any of the guys there talked about for three hours, so far as I could tell, was real estate and their work out regimes/latest athletic challenge undertaken. I was probably 205 pounds at the time, and was by far the fattest guy there. Clearly in that micro-culture a clear commitment to fairly extreme levels of fitness and thinness was seen as a virtue, and it felt like it was almost table stakes for belonging to that group. 
- One company that I worked at, it must have been 20 years ago now, got a new president who was short (maybe 5'6") and fairly fat. From the day he was introduced, it was clear that he did not have the respect of the employees, even before he had done a thing for good or ill. He was instantly nick-named "The Penguin" and his every pronouncement mocked. I think he had an impressive resume before he took on that role, but he had no chance in the turn-around role that he'd been hired for, because the employees were never going to follow him. 
-	On the other hand, my father-in-law was a fairly husky guy, an eastern European immigrant who worked in an auto-parts plant for twenty-five years, and I remember him casually using &#8216;skinny’ as a dismissive term to help indicate how useless some of the management at the factory were. Clearly in his world, skinny guys weren’t real men.

So it seems to me that being an FFA may be a more variable experience, depending on the details of the micro-cultures to which you belong. One thing that may make being an FFA somewhat easier is if you are willing to change—to the extent that you can—your micro-cultures. If you grow up in a WASPier than thou part of urban Toronto where thinness is the next best thing to wealthiness, you may be in for a rough ride. But if you make new friends who are more part of nerd culture, and later settle down with your BHM in suburban Brampton--where you are more apt to be judged by how neat you keep your lawn and whether you’ll take your turn driving the car pool of kids heading to Saturday morning hockey practice—maybe you would not face nearly so much difficulty in being an FFA.

What do you think? Am I making castles in the air here, or does this line up with what you’ve experienced?


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## terpsichore (Mar 8, 2014)

Gingembre said:


> I'll be honest, I don't really get how there even is a closet for this sort of thing. Why do you need to "come out" as a FA/FFA? Do people "come out" about having a preference for different races/hair colours? Just date the people you want to date. IMO there's only a closet if you've built it yourself. And I agree that being a F(F)A has no comparison to being gay.



i suppose you could say i "came out" - because my roommates/friends were trying to set me up with guys they knew. they were perfectly nice, but i wasn't attracted to them, so finally i had to be like 'these guys aren't my type, plz bring a chubby guy next time we go out'.  

yes my friends make fun of me for liking fat guys, but it's not mean-spirited; we tease each other about everything.


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## terpsichore (Mar 8, 2014)

^^ and i do agree with you that what we might deal with as (F)FAs is not at all comparable to LGBT issues. and that generally there's no need for a 'coming out' about what you're attracted to (unless your well-meaning friends are trying to foist skinny guys on you because they don't know any better  )


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## Judge_Dre (Mar 17, 2014)

My main beef with the the "in the closet" terminology is that the closet for gays is way more serious than it is for us fat admirers. Gays stay in the closet for fear of their lives. Gays are murdered for being gay, fired for being gay and lose family relationships for being gay. Can any of us fat admirers really say the same has happened to us? Whenever i hear about a FA in the closet, I think of some coward afraid to have fat jokes thrown at him. I never came out of any closet. People knew I liked fat girls when they saw me date fat girls. Simple as that.


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## kh818 (Mar 17, 2014)

Judge_Dre said:


> My main beef with the the "in the closet" terminology is that the closet for gays is way more serious than it is for us fat admirers. Gays stay in the closet for fear of their lives. Gays are murdered for being gay, fired for being gay and lose family relationships for being gay. Can any of us fat admirers really say the same has happened to us? Whenever i hear about a FA in the closet, I think of some coward afraid to have fat jokes thrown at him. I never came out of any closet. People knew I liked fat girls when they saw me date fat girls. Simple as that.



Yes, many of FFA/FA's do not receive the same hatred as the gay community has, I agree. But that does not mean that people of this community do not have any reason to fear "coming out." It's a secret about sexuality and that is a touchy subject for many people. Some of us from more conservative backgrounds or just happen to be shy, struggle with the decision to tell our loved ones. It isn't that simple for everyone. Words hurt and I know that if I told a friend and they made fun of me for my preferences I would be mortified. That's just how I am.

This is a preference that is not mainstream and I would go as far as to say that it is the opposite of what society wants us to be attracted to. I've been lucky with the two people I told (boyfriend and roommate), they have accepted me and actually were very curious to hear about my preferences. Many are not so lucky and get the "are you serious?! How can that be hot?!" responses. That is hard to hear and you need a tough skin to not let that hurt in some way.

I just don't want us to judge each other on this site. This is a site for exploring, acceptance, and inspiration.

Rant over.


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## Judge_Dre (Mar 18, 2014)

I didn't mean to come off judgmental. Sorry you took it that way. I just wanted to point out that "coming out" doesn't have to be so serious or hard to do.


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## x0emnem0x (Mar 18, 2014)

kh818 said:


> Yes, many of FFA/FA's do not receive the same hatred as the gay community has, I agree. But that does not mean that people of this community do not have any reason to fear "coming out." It's a secret about sexuality and that is a touchy subject for many people. Some of us from more conservative backgrounds or just happen to be shy, struggle with the decision to tell our loved ones. It isn't that simple for everyone. Words hurt and I know that if I told a friend and they made fun of me for my preferences I would be mortified. That's just how I am.
> 
> This is a preference that is not mainstream and I would go as far as to say that it is the opposite of what society wants us to be attracted to. I've been lucky with the two people I told (boyfriend and roommate), they have accepted me and actually were very curious to hear about my preferences. Many are not so lucky and get the "are you serious?! How can that be hot?!" responses. That is hard to hear and you need a tough skin to not let that hurt in some way.
> 
> ...



Definitely agree!!

And Judge_Dre, I agreed with you also. Even though it seems like FAs are just cowards afraid of fat jokes, they're more than that, and that was a little harsh. I mean really people are pretty harsh when it comes to what OTHER people like, whether it be liking fat girls or boys liking boys but don't need to be harsh about it. Though you are right, people knew you liked fat girls because they saw you dating fat girls! I don't know why it can't be as simple as that for some people, or for other people to just see it and accept it. But we can wish! People can just be so worried about others lives, instead of just living their own.


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## lucca23v2 (Mar 18, 2014)

Librarygirl said:


> Thank you  This is appreciated more than you know. I will keep trying. My situation (as ever) is complicated, but today has sucked...Hours of chatting to this guy and sharing all sorts about our lives (after suddenly getting closer having known each other for years) and since that conversation he now seems to be making excuses not to talk, only being professional and talking about work. I can only hope there is some work-stress thing going on and we will be back on track as friends at least tomorrow.
> 
> WE ARE REAL!!! If only you big guys knew what it is like! I sit there at work unable to take my eyes off my friend, wishing his gorgeous chubby hands were around my waist and I was 'allowed' to touch his belly....
> 
> All I can say...Is just pay attention and don't assume a girl is looking cos she disapproves. I think we just worry that if a guy has had a lot of negative attention / is self-conscious, it may come over as insincere if we go on about liking his appearance / drawing attention to his size. Sigh.....When really our imaginations are running wild!! Thank goodness for this place!



I say you pull him in a closet and kiss him.. he won't mistake that. 

All joking aside, it can be a tough thing. Hang in there.


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