# Being Fat and Mental Health/Self Worth/Happiness



## Fascinita (Mar 7, 2009)

I've been thinking about the impact that the negative messages about fat that saturate our daily lives has on fat people.

I know that one reason I come to Dimensions is because it often lets me feel that I'm escaping some of the excess of negative messages about fat that I encounter everywhere on a daily basis. I call this excess of negative messages about fat, "Fat-Phobia," because I see it as rooted in a deep fear of the freedoms that fat represents.

Unfortunately, I find that even Dimensions is not a place that's free of negative messages about fat. It seems no matter where you go, there's the fact of having to deal with prejudice and assumptions about fat that have little to do with how we really are in the world, as fat people. 

Even when Dimensions is helpful (which is to say, it is helpful a lot, as I mentioned), there's still the fact that we can't live all or even most of our lives in this little fatopia/fat ghetto we've made for ourselves. At some point, we're all required to return to "the Real World"--whether to make our living, or because our stomachs are rumbling (virtual food is not as satisfying as virtual flirting, somehow  ), or because our SOs are clamoring for us to come to bed. And when we return to reality after indulging our need to be online, there are those scads of negative attitudes about fat staring at us everywhere.

I find the cumulative weight of all of that hatred toward fat bodies can be oppressive, speaking as a fat person. It's not something that's easy to escape, either, since I can't afford to dettach myself from the reality of living in the world and getting along in it.

So I wonder what others have found for themselves about the real impact (the impact on your own daily lives) of the negative messages aimed at fat and fat bodies.

Also, how do you personally (if you're a fat person) *deal* with those messages and maintain your sense of worth and your direction in life, without letting it all discourage you or keep you from enjoying life.


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## olwen (Mar 7, 2009)

Good questions Fasc. I think I'm just selective about the messages I take in. Some things I can easily ignore and some things I can't. That said, I don't think there has been an extended period of time where I did forget about the messages at all, and I know if not for those messages I wouldn't identify so much as a fat person. The times I can't escape those messages in my daily life are the times when I get dirty looks from people or when thin people say innocent things from their perspective and expect me know where they are coming from. They don't understand that I don't fit into things the way they do so those moments where they want to relate to me become awkard for me. Sometimes I let it go and sometimes I don't. Just depends on my mood. 

How I deal with all the messages just depends on the mood I'm in. Sometimes I'm in a fuck you world kinda mood and it's easy to dismiss it all. Sometimes I am confused and upset and dismissal is not so easy. In general tho an "I'm here, get used to it!" attitude is the one I employ most. But lately, the thing I've been reminding myself of most often is that I have a right to have desires - any desires I want - and to act on them just like thin people can and do. My size shouldn't stop me from doing most of what I want. Notice how I said *most.* For those other parts I struggle with....having a therapist helps a lot. This forum helps a lot too. :happy:


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## Fascinita (Mar 7, 2009)

olwen said:


> The times I can't escape those messages in my daily life are the times when I get dirty looks from people or when thin people say innocent things from their perspective and expect me know where they are coming from.



I know. I find it's almost always possible to escape, as you say, at least by conciously reaffirming my choice of "opting out" of those messages. But then someone'll say something insulting/demeaning or look at me with that well-meaning look of "but you have such a pretty face! and you're so smart!" on her face, and I run face-first into the hard fact: that for MOST people the "reality" is that "fat = bad." That really is how they see the world, and in that "reality" I am seen as at best an impoverishedly imagined version of what it means to be a person, and at worst I'm seen as a disgusting loser and a reject with whom no other person would ever want to be.

So it's something about the nature of reality... There's an ugly truth in having to recognize that "reality" is what people say it is, for all intents and purposes. If people act from a certain set of beliefs, and if those actions define the world around me (and for me), what chance do I really have of escaping that reality? I can fight that feeling of being co-opted into a reality that I did not create but that affects me nonetheless, but the truth is that it takes a lot of energy. So at the end of the day, I still live in a world in which fat bodies are hated and demeaned. 

And I don't know that we can really escape that, no matter where we run to. That's what I'm afraid of, anyway.


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## steely (Mar 7, 2009)

I've put some thought into this lately as I was recently diagnosed with diabetes.Everyone I know thinks that I ate my way to this situation,but in reading clinical trials,there are diabetes genes.As it turns out I am most likely obese because of the diabetes not the other way around.Not that I did anything to stop it.Lord,I love to eat.

My point is,if qualified doctors still look at me as fat and responsible,how will anyone else ever look at me any differently.Doctors are supposed to be intelligent.Your average little old lady who is horrified by your size is a different matter.As she slowly slides away from you in the checkout line,like she's going to catch it.It is not going to change,I'm afraid.I think I am going to have to change the way I react.This is going to be very difficult for me.Most of what is thrown at me,I can let it roll off.I have little faith in people anyway.I can ignore a lot.There are days when it gets to me.Days when every moment seems like a mountain.

Having been overweight for a long time I find the older I get the less I care.Yes,I am smart and I do have a pretty face but that's not all that I am,but some people will never know that because they can't get past my body.That is their loss.


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## Fascinita (Mar 7, 2009)

steely said:


> Most of what is thrown at me,I can let it roll off.I have little faith in people anyway.I can ignore a lot.There are days when it gets to me.Days when every moment seems like a mountain.



Part of what makes me angry about the state of these things is that I don't want to have to be on the defense everywhere I go. Nor do I want to have to make myself numb to deal with it. That alone takes a lot of work!

You're right, steely, that it gets easier as one gets older. At least in my experience it's been so. But I look back and realize how much energy and time it's taken me just to learn how to be at peace with myself and to protect myself from all the BS, and THAT makes me angry. lol 

Most of all, I wish that girls and women younger than I am could look forward to living in a world that doesn't make them feel despised when they grow fat. The amount of life energy that it takes to work through it and reach an evel keel is staggering. I don't wish that on my worst enemy.

ETA: THANKS for posting, olwen and steely. Nothing's worse than feeling like you're not being heard at precisely the moments when you feel you need to be heard most.


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## steely (Mar 7, 2009)

How is anyone supposed to feel comfortable in their own skin?Take the Jessica Simpson incident recently.140 pounds being crucified.The main problem is you not only get it from strangers,you get that crap from family as well.Is it any wonder you've got 12 year olds starving themselves to death?It's crushing,debilitating and destroying young girls everywhere.

It is exhausting to put up that wall but I have no choice.I can't let myself suffer the slings and arrows without losing myself completely.I've done it for so long it's second nature.I really wish I could be different but I have no idea how.Why would I want to?

You've caught me on a night when my blood sugar is low and my meds are spacing me out.On nights like this you get the truth,no walls involved.One day I might get to the understanding that I am stronger for being fat or weaker for not being able to stand on my own and BE fat.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Mar 7, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> But I look back and realize how much energy and time it's taken me just to learn how to be at peace with myself and to protect myself from all the BS, and THAT makes me angry. lol



Boy, oh boy, did this ever hit home! I've been working at this since I was twelve, anyway, and I know I'll have to keep working at it as long as I live: the task is never over!* The thing is -- and I know you realize this, too, but if you're like me you forget it sometimes -- EVERYBODY has to learn how to protect himself/herself from the BS. It's just that, for different people, it's different BS.

*Well, yeah, when they put me in the box I can relax -- in fact, I'm pretty much _bound_ to relax -- but until then, it's a struggle.


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## Fascinita (Mar 7, 2009)

steely said:


> You've caught me on a night when my blood sugar is low and my meds are spacing me out.On nights like this you get the truth,no walls involved.One day I might get to the understanding that I am stronger for being fat or weaker for not being able to stand on my own and BE fat.



I appreciate you contribution. And I do hope you feel better soon. Please let me hear more of what you think about this at some later time. I love touching base with people about our common experiences. IT's immensely helpful to *me*--so it's mostly selfish--but I also hope that the conversations that result can somehow shed light on this difficult issue for those who are reading silently.

All my best to you, Steely.  Love and light.


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## Fascinita (Mar 7, 2009)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> *Well, yeah, when they put me in the box I can relax -- in fact, I'm pretty much _bound_ to relax -- but until then, it's a struggle.



I recognize the gentle humor of the Zen stick in these words, maybe.  Soon we'll _all_ be dead. 

Thanks for your perspective, Dr. Feelgood. It indeed makes me feel a little gooder.

:bow:

One way I would challenge your assertion about "different BS for different people" is that often it feels like the BS heaped on fat bodies is "extra BS." I can't help but feel that fat people are in the midst of having a social injustice foisted on us as fat becomes more and more a scapegoat and recipient of the worst of the consequences of human instincts: first to define ideological difference and otherness and later to justify a system of social oppression based on the definition of that difference.

In the end I'm talking precisely about the need to address the social justice aspects of prejudice against fat. Other groups have organized and fought against discrimination and prejudice; and discrimination and prejudice are worth doing battle against precisely because they are not only abstract concepts, but have impact in real ways in real people's lives. 

I don't want to discount the real impact that fat-phobia has had in my daily life because I don't think I should have to be fine with fat people being assumed to be EVERYBODY's whipping boys. That would be to give too much power away. It would be like being told I'm a slave and that at any moment I could be made to kneel by anyone who happened to be passing by, and made to do as I'm told. I just couldn't consent to that and keep my feeling of self-worth and integrity.

Does any of that make any sense?


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## imfree (Mar 7, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> I've been thinking about the impact that the negative messages about fat that saturate our daily lives has on fat people.
> 
> .....snipped......
> Also, how do you personally (if you're a fat person) *deal* with those messages and maintain your sense of worth and your direction in life, without letting it all discourage you or keep you from enjoying life.



Personally, this is the way I look best to myself and have
peace with my own body. I have no trouble dealing with
the ignorance and hatred of others because I know my
body is suitable for doing what I do best, repair and 
design of electronic devices at circuit board level. My life
is not very physical, but few people go as deep into 
circuits as I do.

I don't hate myself or loathe my body because I'm fat.
I manage my health conditions diligently and I am 
blessed with decent health, considering all these things
that are wrong with me. I had cellulitis 23 years before
it put me in the hospital these 2 times, but I'm pretty
sure they killed it off this time. My blood sugar control
and oxygen saturation continue to improve.

I don't let the media do my thinking for me and I'm
sickened by their technique. The media supports
the diet/weight-loss industry by preying on people's
insecurities, while that industry is not even held
accountable for the efficiency and safety of their 
products. I'd love to see all that wasted money 
and time go back into the economy!

I'm OK with who and what I am. Most people I meet
see past the fat quickly and treat me with kindness
and respect. The haters are so hell-bent on hating
fat people that I wonder if it's even possible to 
reason with them, so I tend to avoid haters. Some
people just won't ever get it.:bow:


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## steely (Mar 8, 2009)

I know I'm going to get the beat down for this but society is different with men.You don't see pictures on TV or magazines if a male celeb gains 20 pounds.It's different for women,somehow by being fat you're letting down the whole world.It gets tiresome holding the weight of womanhood on your shoulders.

I don't hate my body for being fat.I hate other peoples reaction to it.Fat is the last thing people hate with such intensity.Being black,being homosexual and other differences have had light shed on them and the predjudice is still there.You still get haters but not like fat haters.

I guess I'll find out tommorow how strong I am.I have joined the aquatic center to help get some exercise to manage this diabetes.When I come out in a swimsuit,I guess I'll see what I'm made of.

Thanks Fasc,I'm alright.I'm new to diabetes so I'm still learning to manage it.Sometimes my bg drops lower than my body is used to being.410 to 75 is a big drop.All this time I thought I was the one being selfish:happy:


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 8, 2009)

steely said:


> I know I'm going to get the beat down for this but society is different with men.You don't see pictures on TV or magazines if a male celeb gains 20 pounds.It's different for women,somehow by being fat you're letting down the whole world.It gets tiresome holding the weight of womanhood on your shoulders.
> 
> I don't hate my body for being fat.I hate other peoples reaction to it.Fat is the last thing people hate with such intensity.Being black,being homosexual and other differences have had light shed on them and the predjudice is still there.You still get haters but not like fat haters.
> 
> ...



I have to agree that you DON'T see the big deal of it when male celebrities gain....they aren't doing Jenny Craig commercials like crazy either. The implication could be, to some, that it's "okay" if the men put on some weight but it's such a horrible thing if a lady DARES to do so. 

About the bathing suit thing....first time try wearing a robe or a big overshirt and taking it off right before getting in the water. I do that at public pools if I am having one of those really self-conscious days....and big towels make easy cover ups when wet  
I hope that you will eventually get more comfortable, though, and just be able to be you without all the discomfort. (I still work on it myself occasionally :doh: )


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## William (Mar 8, 2009)

Hi 

I disagree male celebrities do have it easier while dressed because most Mens clothes are not form fitting. Photos and comments of male celebrities on the beach have been just as cruel as the women's.

William




Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I have to agree that you DON'T see the big deal of it when male celebrities gain....they aren't doing Jenny Craig commercials like crazy either. The implication could be, to some, that it's "okay" if the men put on some weight but it's such a horrible thing if a lady DARES to do so.
> 
> About the bathing suit thing....first time try wearing a robe or a big overshirt and taking it off right before getting in the water. I do that at public pools if I am having one of those really self-conscious days....and big towels make easy cover ups when wet
> I hope that you will eventually get more comfortable, though, and just be able to be you without all the discomfort. (I still work on it myself occasionally :doh: )


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## olwen (Mar 8, 2009)

steely said:


> I know I'm going to get the beat down for this but society is different with men.You don't see pictures on TV or magazines if a male celeb gains 20 pounds.It's different for women,somehow by being fat you're letting down the whole world.It gets tiresome holding the weight of womanhood on your shoulders.
> 
> I don't hate my body for being fat.I hate other peoples reaction to it.Fat is the last thing people hate with such intensity.Being black,being homosexual and other differences have had light shed on them and the predjudice is still there.You still get haters but not like fat haters.
> 
> ...



Glad you decided to start swimming. It's fun. If anybody does say anything give em the ole stink eye. 



William said:


> Hi
> 
> I disagree male celebrities do have it easier while dressed because most Mens clothes are not form fitting. Photos and comments of male celebrities on the beach have been just as cruel as the women's.
> 
> William



I'm not gonna say you're wrong William, but it just doesn't happen as often with men. Men don't get pregnant. Every time a female celebrity has a baby speculation about her baby weight starts to fly before she even gives birth. For that reason alone there will be more comments made on a woman's size than a man's. And I can only think of one guy of late who's beach photo was commented on and that's Andy Garcia. The recent commentary and hoopla about Jessica Simpson would never happen to a male celebrity.


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## bexy (Mar 8, 2009)

I don't know why it doesn't affect me, I just don't allow myself to be part of "that world".

I hear too many 120lb women talking about dieting and them needing to lose weight and it bores me. It also makes me realise how warped the world is, seriously, and so I just figure so long as I am healthy and I like what I see in the mirror everyone else can piss off.


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## ashmamma84 (Mar 8, 2009)

I think part of the reason being fat really doesn't bother me is because I try to remember that most people are warped. lol Most people sort of freak out because they have so many preconceived notions about who I am because I'm fat, because I'm black, because I'm lesbian that I kinda throw them for a loop. And that's a good thing! Let 'em get tongue twisted and cross eyed and crazy when they realize they don't know nothin' about nothin'. 

I really believe most people who have issues with my fat body are just terribly miserable and so I try not to take it so personally. I sort of feel sorry for anyone who can't awaken to their lives and not live being content and truly happy with who they are.

I actually have an acquaintance like that - she's about my height, maybe an inch or two shorter and about 125-130 lbs. and she goes on and on about how she's getting fat and tears will fill her eyes and I can't help but shake my head. It's not about the fat and that's something she'll have to figure out on her own. She's just really really unhappy in general, so there is no point in trying to talk her head off about how being fit and fat is really possible...instead, I just go about my life as normal. She sees that I'm a normal, happy, well adjusted woman and that I happen to be fat. I'm out there, doing things (some BIG things, in a BIG way), making a life and living a life that's good. 

Why spend such precious time pent up and angry over nonsense? In the words of my best girlfriend, "let the haters, hate!" I wish we could all see what miracles we really are; our lives are amazing. And life without enjoyment and peace of mind is not living, so I make a conscious decision to live beautifully.


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## KendraLee (Mar 8, 2009)

Interesting that this topic is coming up right now because I am dealing with something that has me a bit pissed off. Recently in class I came across a few girls snickering about my myspace page (these women are like the girls in the movie Mean Girls except they arent very attractive). The only thing I can assume they would be snickering about on my Myspace page is the Adipositivity site which I mention and that some of my friends are bbw website models. I am proud of the posing I've done for adpo and I find value and beauty in all of the models I am friends with. I refuse to feel devalued or shameful by these women and have set my profile to private. 
I have spent a lifetime struggling with my weight and addiction to food during times of emotional stress and in the past year I have made peace with myself, my body, and most of the time, the outside world. DIMS and a few other things have helped me come to this point in life but now I find there is a new affect to be had in only surrounding yourself with others who share your struggle. We still need to live and be a part of the outside world and if we shelter ourselves we can be allowing the negativity from others to control us and we are also not allowing others to see our value and therefore they will continue to think whatever negative things about fat people they want to believe.The fat hating can be oppressive but I will not allow others to control what I will and will not do as I have when I was younger. 
I don't know that fatopia is a great place for me either though, because even in fatopia I have felt as if there was a "Keep Out You're not fat enough" sign posted that has brought up a new set of standards that has made me feel inadequate.


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## William (Mar 8, 2009)

Hi Olwen

I did say that Male Celebrities get off easier when clothed, but GEF said that Male Celebrities do not receive any flack over gaining weight and I can't agree with that. 

Still far more female celebrities use their bodies as a major component of their careers than the male celebrities do. They wear tighter clothes and show much more flesh. That is why a _Jessica Simpson_ is focused on so much.

I am much more upset because celebrities like Nikki Blonsky get flack over their fat or someone like that Young Lady "Chloe Marshall" in England who won the beauty pageant in 2008 and who got negative responses. The Pageant has not even posted her photo in their Hall of Fame Section yet. 

http://www.missengland.info/hall-of-fame


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-552792/Size-16-Miss-England-hopeful-Chloe-unveils-curvy-look-official-bikini-shoot.html

William






olwen said:


> Glad you decided to start swimming. It's fun. If anybody does say anything give em the ole stink eye.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not gonna say you're wrong William, but it just doesn't happen as often with men. Men don't get pregnant. Every time a female celebrity has a baby speculation about her baby weight starts to fly before she even gives birth. For that reason alone there will be more comments made on a woman's size than a man's. And I can only think of one guy of late who's beach photo was commented on and that's Andy Garcia. The recent commentary and hoopla about Jessica Simpson would never happen to a male celebrity.


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## Suze (Mar 8, 2009)

KendraLee said:


> *snip*
> I don't know that fatopia is a great place for me either though, because even in fatopia I have felt as if there was a "Keep Out You're not fat enough" sign posted that has brought up a new set of standards that has made me feel inadequate.


^
i wish there was a thread about this subject.


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## olwen (Mar 8, 2009)

William said:


> Hi Olwen
> 
> I did say that Male Celebrities get off easier when clothed, but GEF said that Male Celebrities do not receive any flack over gaining weight and I can't agree with that.
> 
> ...



I want to respond but I don't want to derail this thread any further. I'll just leave it at Ok.


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## William (Mar 8, 2009)

No problem

The thread already needs to get back on track 

William






olwen said:


> I want to respond but I don't want to derail this thread any further. I'll just leave it at Ok.


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## Fascinita (Mar 8, 2009)

KendraLee said:


> I refuse to feel devalued or shameful by these women and have set my profile to private.



Kendra, this makes me angry for you. Why should you have to set your profile to private just so you don't have to feel like crap because others think it's OK to make fun of your page? And this is exactly what I'm talking about! You set your profile to private in order to protect yourself (I don't blame you), and your only other choice is to learn to ignore the haterz or to always be at the ready with a counterpunch when you get picked on for the fat. I do get tired of having to let people's stupidity slide off me; and having to cop an attitude or having to one-up or educate the critics again and again doesn't exactly feel good, either.

It would be one thing if it were a matter of sheer stupidity and ignorance on the part of the world. Few things are more shocking and demoralizing than being the object of a sudden pitiful look or hearing an anti-fat comment roll from the mouth of a co-worker you've always respected or an older friend you look up to, for instance. How do we, as fat people, share in the world at all when some of the people we like and admire most are always trying to get us to agree that there is something basically repugnant or unfortunate about us? I always want to tell them that fat is not a tragedy and urge them to check their assumptions, but it gets old.

At some point, it becomes impossible to pretend that the answer's in the way "you carry yourself" or in "thinking positive." At some point, it's an issue of "Who the hell do you think you are to be going around trying to convince me that I need to feel bad about the way I am."


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## Tania (Mar 8, 2009)

The world is full of all sorts of screwed up ideas/people and nasty messages, not to mention a whole gamut of ostensibly neutral circumstances that offend by default. No one's immune, though I do agree that people who fall into the more extreme ends of a particular spectrum have a much rougher time of it than those of us who don't. Still, I think it's often not really so much a "fat hate" thing as it is general misanthropy or even projected self-hate that finds an easy conduit in size. The conduit is easy because a lot of us are really sensitive about being big - SO sensitive, in fact, that rather than laughing at the ridiculousness of it all, even truly thin people automatically freak out as if it might actually be true. I honestly believe that a lot of people couldn't even define for you where "fat" actually begins; all they know is that they're constantly struggling to avoid being perceived as falling into that category. 

It's like a 21st century witch hunt. Whether or not they buy into the cult of thin, a lot of people use size/weight as a means of sabotaging, pidgeonholing, and controlling other people or situations in general because they know it's a sensitive subject and that they can use it to tremendous strategic advantage. I think many doctors and parents in particular see it as their big authority trump card. My grandmother didn't really want to control my situation for her own gratification, but I know her own experience with her weight influenced her desire to "fix" my perceived problems by obsessing over my size. Being young, I trusted her view. And over time, my perception of the situation mutated into something truly ugly. 

I honestly believe that I was my own worst enemy when it came to reconciling the white noise (and occasional direct jab in my direction) with reality. I know that the most hateful, size-derisive, damaging force in my life has been ME and NOT other people or outside circumstances. My self-loathing was so extreme that at times I felt I deserved to die for my hideousness. Certainly culture and society planted the seed in aggregate, but I was the one who created the final translation. If there's a single, culpable murderous villain in the story of my life up to this point, it's me. 

In the modern western world, people grow up to be "competitors." We become so obsessed with comparing and copying and "beating" others that we sometimes forget precisely what we're comparing, and why it's even important. We come to understand that personal control breeds success, and success propagates glory and power (broader control). Eating disorders are rooted in a desperate need for control so as to more effectively "compete" in life; at least, that's how it was for me. I think extreme thinness became a beauty paragon not necessarily because everyone really loves thin bodies, but because it was a way for young "culture consumers" to easily quantify physical differences for the purposes of this competition. 

Media celebrities have historically tended to be *particularly* thin to suit the technical eccentricities of the camera (and in the case of fashion models, the added requirement of not interfering too much with the structure of the clothes). Since we naturally look to these glamor icons to show us what's hot, we assume that slim and willowy is a big part of the equation. And if small is better (which is the basic message I got from my wiggy mother, grandmother, and childhood doctor), then smallest must be best. For me, it got to a point where real aesthetics were ironically irrelevant. I was technically okay with my shape and nobody complained (in fact, my mom started freaking out because I was getting too thin), but the fact that I weighed 150 pounds when other pretty girls weighed 120 killed me. And if X wore size 4, I was somehow inadequate because my number was 8. 

For a long time, I was wrapped up in this twisted image of my own fat failure that far, FAR surpassed reality. Yeah, there are a lot of insensitive, clueless douchebags out there who say and do stupid shit. But I've also discovered that there are plenty of nice, average people out there who don't see everything in the same hyperbolically simplistic fat/thin/omigod terms that I did. In fact, it took me freaking decades to realize that I was judging myself against a different yardstick than I was using for everyone else. Hypocrisy, much? 

Also, I think a lot of us are confused by a double-standard that seems to exist for celebrity/public figures. Jessica Simpson is more likely to catch shit for the smallest perceived imperfection than an average girl because we're all jealous of her. She's the girl to hate because she supposedly has all of the beauty and success and happiness the rest of want but can't have. Given an ounce of ammunition...one tiny thing outside the box...everyone jumps on it, whether it actually affects her beauty or well-being or not. Just as I fictionalized my own size/weight/whatever into a theoretical disaster, jealous people fictionalize hers, too. Further, in cases like Chloe Marshall's, there's also the whole "but I'm supposed to be the pretty one because I'm SKINNY!" entitlement bullshit, which is nothing more than sour grapes propagated by bratty lemmings. I don't know if that qualifies as a resentment of the freedoms fat represents (Fascinita), but it does seem to back up the general societal axiom that outsiders, misfits, and other people who generally don't play by the rules shouldn't be rewarded. 

Incidentally, Chloe is fiercely hot and totally my type and now I feel like a pervy old lady. ;D


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## steely (Mar 9, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I have to agree that you DON'T see the big deal of it when male celebrities gain....they aren't doing Jenny Craig commercials like crazy either. The implication could be, to some, that it's "okay" if the men put on some weight but it's such a horrible thing if a lady DARES to do so.
> 
> About the bathing suit thing....first time try wearing a robe or a big overshirt and taking it off right before getting in the water. I do that at public pools if I am having one of those really self-conscious days....and big towels make easy cover ups when wet
> I hope that you will eventually get more comfortable, though, and just be able to be you without all the discomfort. (I still work on it myself occasionally :doh: )



Thanks GEF,I think I'm to the point that I just don't care.It's not a vanity issue for me anymore.It's a health issue.If I don't get some kind of handle on it there will be no happiness for me,fat or otherwise.:bow:


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## Tau (Mar 9, 2009)

I don't think you should try to escape it - my reaction is always to fight it. To the fat ignorant ads - get them removed from air. Write scathing respnoses to fat-hating newspaper articles. Tell off doctors who think they can judge cos your BMI is a complete mess. And for all those nasty people who give you dirty looks and make snide comments - give them something to really get pissed about by wearing a bikini to the beach, mini-dress to the club, and have an absolute, rocking ball while doing it. Nothing feels better for me than triumphing over all the fat haters by doing everything I've been told I can't do cos I'm fat. Enjoy your life, and live it the way you want to live it. The virtual world is fun, yes, but take back your power and create your own space in the real world too. Don't let anybody deny you that.


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## imfree (Mar 9, 2009)

Tau said:


> I don't think you should try to escape it - my reaction is always to fight it. To the fat ignorant ads - get them removed from air. Write scathing respnoses to fat-hating newspaper articles. Tell off doctors who think they can judge cos your BMI is a complete mess. And for all those nasty people who give you dirty looks and make snide comments - give them something to really get pissed about by wearing a bikini to the beach, mini-dress to the club, and have an absolute, rocking ball while doing it. Nothing feels better for me than triumphing over all the fat haters by doing everything I've been told I can't do cos I'm fat. Enjoy your life, and live it the way you want to live it. The virtual world is fun, yes, but take back your power and create your own space in the real world too. Don't let anybody deny you that.



Empowerment is great, thanks for a great post.:bow:


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## MsGreenLantern (Mar 9, 2009)

Early on in life I had an INTENSE reaction to the negativity. I basically blocked Jr High out of my mind. I can only remember tiny snippits of the 3 years I spent there. 

In highschool I was in blissful ignorance with friends.

College I was introverted and angry because I lost the friend safety net, and I was finally wanting to date. College was probably the most painful due to a string of men trying to use me and lose me because I wasn't pretty enough to 'date'. I had very little filter. It wasn't until I was 20 that I really came into my own with confidence.

Now I find the real world both threatening, and empowering. It threatens me because I know my limitations when it comes to physicality in my job and otherwise. I understand that I won't be playing a serious game of tag with a bunch of fit elementary school kids. I'd sink like a rock every time. But I know I can still throw and catch, and play kickball...etc.

I feel empowered by the real world when I go about a normal and generally cheerful existence, doing the same things people of any size do. I feel good when I take a walk with my boyfriend, or beat a kid at basketball. It's cool to be loved and respected by the kids, parents, and some co-workers. I haven't had any insults thrown my way in a long time about weight, but it still sits in the back of my mind.

When I see certain groups of people, like teenage boys, or drunk college guys [I live in a college town] I'm on the guard. I hope someday I don't need to be.


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## KendraLee (Mar 9, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> Kendra, this makes me angry for you. Why should you have to set your profile to private just so you don't have to feel like crap because others think it's OK to make fun of your page? And this is exactly what I'm talking about! You set your profile to private in order to protect yourself (I don't blame you), and your only other choice is to learn to ignore the haterz or to always be at the ready with a counterpunch when you get picked on for the fat. I do get tired of having to let people's stupidity slide off me; and having to cop an attitude or having to one-up or educate the critics again and again doesn't exactly feel good, either.
> 
> It would be one thing if it were a matter of sheer stupidity and ignorance on the part of the world. Few things are more shocking and demoralizing than being the object of a sudden pitiful look or hearing an anti-fat comment roll from the mouth of a co-worker you've always respected or an older friend you look up to, for instance. How do we, as fat people, share in the world at all when some of the people we like and admire most are always trying to get us to agree that there is something basically repugnant or unfortunate about us? I always want to tell them that fat is not a tragedy and urge them to check their assumptions, but it gets old.
> 
> *At some point, it becomes impossible to pretend that the answer's in the way "you carry yourself" or in "thinking positive." At some point, it's an issue of "Who the hell do you think you are to be going around trying to convince me that I need to feel bad about the way I am*."



I know what you are saying about setting my profile to private and I did consider that but making it private was more of a statement towards the people doing the ridiculing. The original person that they linked to my page through is still on my friends list (for now). I wanted to make sure she read the blog I put on there. Its funny though cause I wasnt really trying to protect myself it was probably more about protecting the web models that I am friends with. I felt very protective and if closed minded people can't see the beauty in thier bodies then I didnt want them to look at them and use it as a source of amusement.

And I completely agree with that last statement. I carry myself very well, have a good attitude and am always put together but that doesnt keep people from forming a negative opinion and the well intentioned people can be the worst. I remember one day I was sitting in Borders reading a book when another woman whom I'd seen various times came over to me and sat down. She then proceeded to tell me that I was such a pretty girl (at 36 I havn't been a girl for awhile) and wondered about my diet and excercise routine and how I'd be so much prettier thinner. I looked and felt great that day and along comes this wreck of a woman (I know she was a wreck because I had heard her life story over time and she loved to tell anyone she knew about her suicide attempt rather loudly) who for some reason thought she was helping me. She is a skinny woman and I love my body a hell of a lot more than she loves hers (another thing she was always complaing about) so where did she get off.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 14, 2009)

William said:


> Hi
> 
> I disagree male celebrities do have it easier while dressed because most Mens clothes are not form fitting. Photos and comments of male celebrities on the beach have been just as cruel as the women's.
> 
> William





William said:


> Hi Olwen
> 
> I did say that Male Celebrities get off easier when clothed, *but GEF said that Male Celebrities do not receive any flack over gaining weight and I can't agree with that. *
> 
> ...





Green Eyed Fairy said:


> *I have to agree that you DON'T see the big deal of it when male celebrities gain....they aren't doing Jenny Craig commercials like crazy either. *The implication could be, to some, that it's "okay" if the men put on some weight but it's such a horrible thing if a lady DARES to do so.



Never said ANY FLACK...just said not as much (quoted myself so you can read again). The major difference between men and women is that women and their bodies are viewed as "community property" as if they have to always be on display and everyone is allowed to tell them what to do. 

If those celebrity women aren't sexual, they don't get as much attention as other female celebs. 

Are you saying that female celebs should all wear baggy clothes? Not sure what your point is about tighter clothes and more flesh.....THAT doesn't make her sexual....her being a woman is what makes her "meat" on the slab for some. 

Male celebs, thin or not, can wear loose or tight clothes and still not get as picked on as the women.




steely said:


> Thanks GEF,I think I'm to the point that I just don't care.It's not a vanity issue for me anymore.*It's a health issue.If I don't get some kind of handle on it there will be no happiness for me*,fat or otherwise.:bow:



I wish you the best of luck and good health, Lady  :bow:


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## William (Mar 14, 2009)

Hi GEF

Well male celebes who gain do not get has much flack as the women celebes who have gained and are wearing clothes. 

There is even more coverage of chubby female celebes on the beach, but the "FLABBY" male celebes who do disrobe are really really slaughtered by the press.

I guess if you are not a guy then the coverage that male celebes get is not a big deal, but there are forums full of guys who think that it is a big deal and these guys are always debating if more time in the gym or more dieting will help their own problems areas.

The clothes that men and women wear is a personal choice, there is always the option to wear tighter or looser clothes, there is always a option to wear more or less clothes. 

Jessica Simpson's stage persona is the type that draws attention to her looks. The Singer Jewel who has a tight body is viewed differently because of her stage persona. It is a choice.

That group of female singers "The Pussycat Dolls" will forever be judged by their looks, it is the choice they made.

William






Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Never said ANY FLACK...just said not as much (quoted myself so you can read again). The major difference between men and women is that women and their bodies are viewed as "community property" as if they have to always be on display and everyone is allowed to tell them what to do.
> 
> If those celebrity women aren't sexual, they don't get as much attention as other female celebs.
> 
> ...


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## Dr. Feelgood (Mar 14, 2009)

MsGreenLantern said:


> When I see certain groups of people, like teenage boys, or drunk college guys [I live in a college town] I'm on the guard. I hope someday I don't need to be.



Young males in a group are trouble waiting to happen, and adding alcohol to the mix just shortens the waiting time. You are right to be on your guard, regardless of age,sex, size, or any other factor. Incidentally, "drunk college guys" is redundant.



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> The major difference between men and women is that women and their bodies are viewed as "community property" as if they have to always be on display and everyone is allowed to tell them what to do.



Too true. I don't think we even have the expression "trophy husband," do we?


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## olwen (Mar 14, 2009)

William said:


> Hi GEF
> 
> Well male celebes who gain do not get has much flack as the women celebes who have gained and are wearing clothes.
> 
> ...



If Jewel is viewed differently it's not because of her stage presence it's because she keeps out of the spotlight. Plus, she isn't as popular as Jessica Simpson. I guarantee you Jessica Simpson would sell more concert tickets than Jewel. So really it's that nobody in the media really cares what Jewel is doing. What a woman wears doesn't change the fact that people will still consider her looks to be an ability and a major asset no matter what she does - unless of course she's running for public office. If she looks too good, no one will take her seriously. We saw that happen with Sarah Palin vs. Hillary Clinton. Men celebrities can be ugly as fuck and still be considered great talents and great men. Where the entertainment business is concerned they will still get good parts whether or not they take off their clothes and regardless of whether or not they're ugly or fat. 

I don't think anyone in this thread has said fat men won't get picked on, we're just saying, yeah they'll get picked on but they'll still get good roles and be taken seriously.

...wait, what was the thread topic again? Oh yes, just to connect this to the topic, seeing this kind of disparity in the media can affect your self worth. Part of me has always wanted to be an actress, but I never pursued it because I just figured I'd never get parts because of my weight unless it was to do something like Extra #20 and mumble peas and carrots for the entire scene. No thanks. Honestly, if I were a man I think I would have tried.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 14, 2009)

I'm not really sure if posts about disparity in the media really are "off topic" since our environments and messages we receive from various sources can affect our self image and mental health. The different treatment that celebrities receive as male or female can go right back to the way women are viewed in our more simpler parts/roles in society, I believe. 

Environment, and the messages from what is all around us, does matter. Kind of like how some people come here to Dims...and like the "change of environment" where everything is flipped upside down. Seeing the flip side helps to counter-act some of the negative things tossed at us in every day life. However, if we had never gotten this message from ANYWHERE, would it be harder to overcome the judgments and negativity....that stuff that DOES affect our mental health, self image and well being?


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## William (Mar 14, 2009)

Celebrities are products 

Laura and Barbara Bush would go against your argument 

So would Rose Carter

But I agree with you and still disagree with GEF's extreme stance of the easy street that Male Celebrities are suppose to experience. 

If Wil Smith got a paunch we would hear about it and Brad Pitt, Leonardo DiCaprio, Harrison Ford, Ice Tea and many others have been toasted for having a Gutt or worse.

William






olwen said:


> If Jewel is viewed differently it's not because of her stage presence it's because she keeps out of the spotlight. Plus, she isn't as popular as Jessica Simpson. I guarantee you Jessica Simpson would sell more concert tickets than Jewel. So really it's that nobody in the media really cares what Jewel is doing. What a woman wears doesn't change the fact that people will still consider her looks to be an ability and a major asset no matter what she does - unless of course she's running for public office. If she looks too good, no one will take her seriously. We saw that happen with Sarah Palin vs. Hillary Clinton. Men celebrities can be ugly as fuck and still be considered great talents and great men. Where the entertainment business is concerned they will still get good parts whether or not they take off their clothes and regardless of whether or not they're ugly or fat.
> 
> I don't think anyone in this thread has said fat men won't get picked on, we're just saying, yeah they'll get picked on but they'll still get good roles and be taken seriously.
> 
> ...wait, what was the thread topic again? Oh yes, just to connect this to the topic, seeing this kind of disparity in the media can affect your self worth. Part of me has always wanted to be an actress, but I never pursued it because I just figured I'd never get parts because of my weight unless it was to do something like Extra #20 and mumble peas and carrots for the entire scene. No thanks. Honestly, if I were a man I think I would have tried.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 14, 2009)

Still waiting to see quotes where I or anyone else said "easy street" or "no flack" but then again this is now turning into another one of those hijacks.


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## olwen (Mar 14, 2009)

William said:


> Celebrities are products
> 
> Laura and Barbara Bush would go against your argument
> 
> ...



...I think you're missing the point. Laura and Barbara Bush are menopausal....unfortunately older women are seen as less womanly and so having had their femininity stripped means they can be taken more seriously than their younger counterparts - as long as they are doing charity work or some such. 

No one is saying those actors won't get criticism for their looks, only that tho they will get criticism, they will still be taken seriously, whereas a woman would not.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 14, 2009)

Laura and Barbara Bush....and "First Wives" in general don't become "celebrities" for the same reasons that someone like Jewel or Valerie Bertinelli does. 
If a first wife dared to be sexual, wow, what kind of media frenzy would that be, I wonder?


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## William (Mar 14, 2009)

GEF saith 



Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I have to agree that you DON'T see the big deal of it when male celebrities gain....they aren't doing Jenny Craig commercials like crazy either. The implication could be, to some, that it's "okay" if the men put on some weight but it's such a horrible thing if a lady DARES to do so.
> 
> snip




There is plenty of coverage on paper and online of male celebrities who have gained weight that the issue is is far more than "Not a big Deal". It is obvious the females get more press, but the gender gap is not a absolute as you stated.

William- balanced and fair to all


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## olwen (Mar 14, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Laura and Barbara Bush....and "First Wives" in general don't become "celebrities" for the same reasons that someone like Jewel or Valerie Bertinelli does.
> If a first wife dared to be sexual, wow, what kind of media frenzy would that be, I wonder?



Remember all the comments about whatshisname's wife....I'm having a brain fart right now....you know the guy who just ran against Obama...OH, Cindy McCain! Whew, that was hard. LOL Anyway, I remember all these comments about her being a MILF or a GMILF, but also some kind of whore or something. People wanted to know why she was with someone 20 years her senior even tho she's in her 50's. That seemed odd to me. Over a certain age, why would anybody care about the age difference and no one really focused on anything she's done, whatever it is. I confess to not knowing either, mainly because I didn't take the time to look it up. But if commments had been made about her other than her looks I'd know.


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## olwen (Mar 14, 2009)

William said:


> GEF saith
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wait, you want the amount of bashing to be even and fair?


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 14, 2009)

William said:


> GEF saith
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sure you are 

So you mean that men celebrities have to "repent" and do Jenny Craig commercials when their careers go in the can? 

Eh, nevermind.......


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## William (Mar 14, 2009)

Well 

I do not count celebrities of either genders as meaningful representatives of what real people go through. 

Still from the start I said the males were not judged as harsh as the females. From the start you said that what the Males go through is not a big deal, even though photos of them hit the gossip sheets along with the Women.

William 




Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Sure you are
> 
> So you mean that men celebrities have to "repent" and do Jenny Craig commercials when their careers go in the can?
> 
> Eh, nevermind.......


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## tonynyc (Mar 15, 2009)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Sure you are
> 
> So you mean that men celebrities have to "repent" and do Jenny Craig commercials when their careers go in the can?
> 
> Eh, nevermind.......



The choice for men , at least the ex-athletes, is to become a pitchman for Nutri-System or Subway.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 15, 2009)

tonynyc said:


> The choice for men , at least the ex-athletes, is to become a pitchman for Nutri-System or Subway.



Subway doesn't count because Jared wasn't a celebrity UNTIL he did those commercials, hehehehehe 

Who in heck uses Nutri-system anyways?


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## Risible (Mar 15, 2009)

Off-topic discussions find little tolerance in the Health Forum.

Any more off-topic and/or argumentative posts in this thread will result in it being moved to Hyde Park. Which will be a shame, as Fascinita started such a lovely, productive and relevant thread here.

/mod


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## steely (Mar 15, 2009)

Having diabetes now is giving me a different perspective.I feel the same but I've lost about twenty pounds and you can see it in my face.Heaven knows no where else.People keep saying"are you losing weight?"You look thinner.I can tell their approval.Believe me no one has ever said are you losing weight to me.It irritates me.The weight I've always carried has never been a big deal to me.It makes me wonder what people thought of me before.

It's only going to get worse on the losing weight thing and I don't know how I'll handle it.I'm afraid I'll be bitter.It took me a long time to be moderately at peace with myself.I still have days but it's still me.

I wish I could listen to the quote"What other people think of me is none of my business".Let me tell you being fat is one thing but I know nothing of being fat and then not so fat.As if life weren't confusing enough.:doh:


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## olwen (Mar 15, 2009)

steely said:


> Having diabetes now is giving me a different perspective.I feel the same but I've lost about twenty pounds and you can see it in my face.Heaven knows no where else.People keep saying"are you losing weight?"You look thinner.I can tell their approval.Believe me no one has ever said are you losing weight to me.It irritates me.The weight I've always carried has never been a big deal to me.It makes me wonder what people thought of me before.
> 
> It's only going to get worse on the losing weight thing and I don't know how I'll handle it.I'm afraid I'll be bitter.It took me a long time to be moderately at peace with myself.I still have days but it's still me.
> 
> I wish I could listen to the quote"What other people think of me is none of my business".Let me tell you being fat is one thing but I know nothing of being fat and then not so fat.As if life weren't confusing enough.:doh:



Steely, it's just as well because you really can't prepare for that. For knowing how to not be fat I mean. I wasn't prepared for the reactions I got at all. It doesn't even matter that I'm still fat, but the fact that people who had never talked to me before suddenly wanted to know how I was doing was a real slap in the face. I honestly don't know how I would have gotten thru all of that without therapy.


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## steely (Mar 15, 2009)

That's what I'm afraid of,Olwen.I'll never be thin.It's not in my genes but I'll more than likely be thinner than I have been in awhile.I'm not the best with people in general.I've always been unacceptable in most everyone's eyes.If it turns around I don't know how I'll handle it.I can't see my self going for therapy.This is about the best therapy I get.There's stuff in there,I'm pretty sure I don't want to remember.Thanks for the ear,Olwen.:bow:


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## olwen (Mar 15, 2009)

steely said:


> That's what I'm afraid of,Olwen.I'll never be thin.It's not in my genes but I'll more than likely be thinner than I have been in awhile.I'm not the best with people in general.I've always been unacceptable in most everyone's eyes.If it turns around I don't know how I'll handle it.I can't see my self going for therapy.This is about the best therapy I get.There's stuff in there,I'm pretty sure I don't want to remember.Thanks for the ear,Olwen.:bow:



No prob. :happy: I understand about not wanting to do therapy. Good to do what works for you.

....you know, I think in the end you have to kind of hold on to who you think you are. Granted who that person is might change after a while...I'm def not the same person I was two or even four years ago, but that's not a bad thing necessarily...I'm not sure where I'm going with this, just thinking about how I've dealt with the changes...there was some bitterness and anger, but I didn't want to hang on to all that. Not sure how much of it I've let go either...I do know I'm still adjusting to being smaller so every once in a while I'm surprised by the differences and I don't know why that is, only that those little moments are sometimes jarring. I wish those moments would stop, but I was so much bigger for so much of my life that I wonder if they'll ever go away. 

No choice but to deal I guess....sorry if that doesn't help....


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## steely (Mar 16, 2009)

I hope it helps you to get those kind of thoughts out there.At the core of myself I'm basically the same person,things around me change and my attitudes and beliefs change at times.I'm not the same as I was even a month ago.I've had to change my attitudes to accomadate a change in my life.
Change,adapt or die.

I'm sure that I'll have moments that are not great but I'll be healthier and not killing myself slowly.I guess my only option is to deal with it.Good and bad...I've always wanted to let it go.Just everything,being fat,having a dysfunctional family,the person I am at times.Just let go.

You are always a great help,olwen.Sometimes it needs to be said,"you'll just have to deal with it".:bow:


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## D_A_Bunny (Mar 16, 2009)

I was born the last of six children and unplanned. My parents were just 40, my sibs were 21, 17, 16, 8 & 7. I was spoiled and tortured at the same time. Anyway, I was a chubby kid and was considered FAT at 7 yrs. old. That is in 1970. My parents were chubby at that time too as they were even older and had a bit more money and had access to more food.

I state my background because I believe that I grew up as a fairly typical kid. Except that I was always the fattest girl / person in my grade. That designation formed many (many, many, many) of my ideas about life.

One of the things that I remember the most was that I was always told that "IF YOU DON'T LOSE WEIGHT YOU WILL DIE YOUNG!". Mostly by outside sources. So, even though I occassionally tried to lose weight (we all know the story), I never really did, so I figured that I guess I am just gonna end up dying young.

That single thought altered decisions that I made in my life and still affect them to this day. I still have the mentality that my lifespan is much shorter than most (in fact, I am surprised to this day that I am alive) and so I never did ANYTHING to try and be a healthy, yet fat person.

This is what pisses me off the most. So much time is wasted by people in society telling everyone how if they don't do (insert something here) that they will have some tragic result. How about the people that deal with the children of the world realize that maybe they need to hear that if they go out and play with their friends that they will build strong bodies that will take them wherever they want to go.

Or how about the truth to the currently fat adults that sometimes all it takes is a weight reduction of 10% to make a life altering positive change in their health. Something that might actually be doable. And while we are at it, why do people who make fun of fat people still make fun of them while they are at the gym trying to exercise? Maybe they want to be fat and strong. 

Arghhhhh!!! I am sorry that I am ranting about, it just really gets me upset knowing that I bought some crock of crap and wasted time and health doing things that I KNEW were bad for me instead of just trying to be fat and healthy. 

And at this point in my life it is a daily struggle to keep my mental health balanced so that my physical health does not get any worse. This is another thing that fat haters don't get. Everytime they say something mean and negative to a fat person they could be putting another proverbial nail in their grave.


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## steely (Mar 16, 2009)

Well said,DA Bunny!
I never really did anything with my life because I never expected to make it to 40.In fact for some reason death seemed always imminent.If I had known I would have lived this long I'd have taken better care of myself.Now here I am at an extreme disadvantage,trying to be healthy physically and mentally.

I just wish I'd been smart enough to believe in myself.Things might have been very different.Never be sorry for ranting at the injustice of predjudice.That is exactly what it is.


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## D_A_Bunny (Mar 16, 2009)

steely said:


> If I had known I would have lived this long I'd have taken better care of myself.



Oh my Steely, I have said this EXACT SAME THING so many times. As I sit here and type this my husband is reading over my shoulder reminding me of something else I used to tell him frequently. "Big dogs don't live as long." As an FA who loved me and was planning on spending his life with me, it upset him a great deal. 

I think *that* mental status is also what might get "in the way" sometimes of a fattie / fat lover relationship. It isn't that we don't think we're beautiful, cause sometimes we actually do think we are cute, but sometimes we still believe those who told us that we were going to die from this fat.


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## steely (Mar 16, 2009)

I married a man 25 years older than myself.He is in better shape than I am.It makes him feel terrible when I say things about dying before him.He thinks because he is older he should go first.

I know I give him a hard time with my attitude.By the grace of God he loves me for me and will be with me as long as we are here.I should be grateful but those voices always seem to sneak in.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 16, 2009)

Steely, it makes me feel good to read that you have that kind of love and support in your life


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## steely (Mar 16, 2009)

Thanks,GEF!I can always count on you for your kind words.:happy:


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## Ruffie (Mar 17, 2009)

Well my take on this has alot to do with what I have seen a friend go through of late with her weight loss. She and her husband are good friends of mine. To preface this she was not always a larger woman but gained after marrying her husband. For the past two years her husband has been going through all kinds of health problems. They have tried so many different tests, medications, diets and such to help him and still cannot pinpoint what it is. They have been told its MS, its varying forms of arthritis, its this disease and that and then no he doesn't test positive for those items. As a result of the stress(worry, financial concerns for the medications and trips to doctors, and seeing her husband suffer) and the different diets they have tried they have both lost weight. Her's being more noticeable at 50 lbs and because my buddy is a BHM his weight loss not as noticeable but he is down about 30lbs. People started congratulating her on her weight loss and asking what she is doing to have lost this amazing amount of weight. She is hearing how much better she looks and how sexy she is right now and so on. Her husband is getting no where near the same attention for his weight loss.
This woman is a professional in the medical field and worked with me at the youth centre as a second job to take care of expenses they were experiencing. She is also a professional comedienne. Yet somehow, since she lost weight her worth as a person has gone up. She and I have discussed this and she is pissed as hell about it. She wants people to leave her alone about her wight loss and quit asking her about it and commenting how much better she looks now. Like she said "I feel sick most of the time and can barely eat anything cause of the stress, and when I do eat its the specialty diets hubby is on for his health as a support. I didn't intend to lose weight and I am so pale I have taken to tanning so as not to look anemic. " 
It boils down to the fact that her worth as a woman seems to be tied to her dress size. Like she said I am less of an embarrassment to my family now that I am thinner, suddenly people want to be around me and I haven't gained any new talents or personality traits. Her husband has lost weight as well and no one commenting and gushing at his loss. Why is it that women as a whole seem to be judged on their appearance? It seems the package we come in seems to be the most important thing to society. This is sad considering the talents that many women possess to be friends, wives, others, community leaders, professionals, sisters, mentors is not seen to be the primary criteria for thier worth as a female. 
This is why self acceptance is a process and a difficult one at that for most women. We can go out thinking we look like a million bucks and then hear a comment or two from people that shakes that confidence a little. We have friends and family that well meaning or not encourage us to be smaller to fit in, be healthier or look better. We have doctors who many times want to treat the fat not the symptoms we present to them. And we have insurance companies charging us extra for the risk we present. Also when we look at all the challenges we face in everyday society with seating, mobility, clothing options and peoples opinions its not a stretch to see that acceptance of oneself is something we need to work on everyday. In my opinion its not a given, its a choice to work against the bigotry and perceptions society has of fat people but especially fat women in general. Sorry this is so long, but I felt the need to spout on this topic.
Ruth


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## steely (Mar 17, 2009)

Thanks Ruffie,
You've expressed my point beautifully.I'm not changing but my body is.I'm still the goofy nut job I've always been.I'm just a little thinner now.


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## olwen (Mar 18, 2009)

See, that's interesting to me. I think I've had fat = other drummed into my head for so long that when I started to loose weight I just assumed I would magically change for the better, but that's not what happened and it was kind of a shock. Turns out I did change, but not in the ways I expected. I just know I had to rethink just who I thought I was. Needlesstosay, it was a very emotional process, and I think I'm only just now coming to comfortable place with my me-ness if that makes sense. Tho I don't think it actually does.  I just know I'm different than I was four years ago, but not in the ways I expected or to the degree that I expected and I couldn't have prepared for people's reactions or the changes even if I tried. 

All that just to say, I'm honestly a little confused about how people say they are still the same person no matter what size they are. There's like a disconnect for me there. Like, how can you not be different when people treat you differently even when you only loose a small amount of weight. The expectations shift, the socialization shifts, what you wear changes, how your weight settles (in either direction) changes the way you walk and move...how can any of that not change part of who you are? Would all of that have to do with how much you identify as a fat person? Also, does it matter if you go from being supersized to not supersized, or if you go from being a small bbw to just chubby? How much does the starting point matter in how much your perceptions of yourself change?


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## steely (Mar 18, 2009)

Olwen,it's just my body.I don't like the way other people react to it.Fat or becoming thinner.Inside my head I'm still me.I still like the same things,still react to things,outside of people,in the same way.Say my car craps out on me.I still act the same and think the same.I still have the same belief system.
What makes me think about this,you know how some women lose weight and they go out and party and sleep around,trying to make up for lost time maybe.That's not me.

As far as losing enough weight to shift and be different,I'll never know.I am so disconnected from my body I have no idea what's going on with it.I distanced myself from it years ago when everyone told me it was wrong and being fat was bad.

I guess maybe my attitudes will change as time goes on.It's not very long yet.I don't really want to change.I actually like my person and ideas and beliefs.I'm just disconnected from my body.I don't know,it's really confusing.
I will always be a fat person,even if I were a size 2.It is so deeply ingrained in me I will aways think fat.My mind thinks I'm fat,30 years of it.It doesn't matter what the outside looks like.This is confusing and I apoligise.It's kind of difficult to think about myself.


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## MissToodles (Mar 18, 2009)

I don't know if this really has to do with the original question, but I'll try and answer, the impact on my life.

I've always had a family who loved me and except for junior high school, my education experience was fine, I had friends who cared and weren't mean/judgemental. I even had one who would always stick up for me!


I used to be a lot fatter, well over 400 lbs. I wonder if it's a coincidence that some of the most depressed periods of my life were at peak weights. It wasn't the constant gawking ( more on that in a minute) but it was I couldn't move the way I wanted. I was limited in what I could do and was very sheltered. Not getting out, and constantly being trapped at home or doing things at the bare minimum just tore me apart. It gave me time to focus on every wrong that had been done to me without any outside outlets.

Due to a series of circumstances, I weigh less than I have in years. I'm also extremely sensitive and hyper aware of people and what they think of me. I know I would be this way even if I was a 'normal' weight. But since my difference is so visible, so easy to point out, I was constantly noticing how others noticed me. The pointing out, laughing, all sorts of things said, on and on. I tend to internalize things and blame myself and not judge back.

At a smaller size (grant you, I weigh around 360 lbs at 5'8, I'm certainly not svelte!) I notice I stand out less and it confuses me. I'm not being dismissive of smaller or mid sized fat people, we all have our own pain, but this angers me! I also wonder if it has to do that I feel better both physically and mentally, my posture is better, I don't walk with a limp from an arthritic knee, I'm more able bodied in general and not as easy to pick on. No one had ever said this wasn't some seriously fucked up shit.

I also want to state the above is just my individual experience of course, and I'm not making assumptions about anyone else who may be larger than I am.


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## olwen (Mar 18, 2009)

steely said:


> Olwen,it's just my body.I don't like the way other people react to it.Fat or becoming thinner.Inside my head I'm still me.I still like the same things,still react to things,outside of people,in the same way.Say my car craps out on me.I still act the same and think the same.I still have the same belief system.
> What makes me think about this,you know how some women lose weight and they go out and party and sleep around,trying to make up for lost time maybe.That's not me.
> 
> As far as losing enough weight to shift and be different,I'll never know.I am so disconnected from my body I have no idea what's going on with it.I distanced myself from it years ago when everyone told me it was wrong and being fat was bad.
> ...



Don't apologize. It's confusing for me too. I wasn't even thinking about values and beliefs and such. If I think about it, I don't think that has changed about me either. I still have the same political beliefs. It makes sense that those wouldn't necessarily change. ....You're right tho this is all very confusing. Strange that.


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## olwen (Mar 19, 2009)

MissToodles said:


> I don't know if this really has to do with the original question, but I'll try and answer, the impact on my life.
> 
> I've always had a family who loved me and except for junior high school, my education experience was fine, I had friends who cared and weren't mean/judgemental. I even had one who would always stick up for me!
> 
> ...



I totally get what you're saying. I know I don't stand out as much, but I'm glad about that. It means I don't have to deal with the same level of stuff I dealt with before. I'm hyper aware of it when I'm on the bus. I don't get those angry stares anymore. No one yells at me or calls me a fat bitch when the bus is really crowded (which has happened more times than I care to think about). I am always nervous when someone goes past me while I'm sitting on the two seater. I half expect them to yell at me, and when they sit down (there's barely enough room, but it's just enough) I'm always half-shocked that they can fit. Always. It pisses me off that I still have reactions like that about all kinds of things, and it's always the little things. It's been three years since I lost weight and I just still haven't gotten used to it. I feel like I should by now.  I kind of understand why, but at the same time I don't understand why. Makes no sense.


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## TraciJo67 (Mar 19, 2009)

I experienced the same thing when I lost weight. I felt like I was being welcomed into a secret club of sorts - a general one that simply acknowledges me as a human being. It is a disconcerting feeling. I was angry about it for a long time, and then I just internally shrugged and gave up. I couldn't direct the anger at any one person -- it would have been ridiculous to scold a complete stranger who opened a door for me because he probably would have looked right through me 150 pounds ago. 

I grew up with a mother who was very fat, and very unhappy about it. We picked up on her shame issues surrounding her weight. My sisters and I were all of "normal" weight during our younger years. All three of us gained substantially in our late 20's/early 30's. I think that is because to one degree or another, we all just let go of the insanity as we got older. We love to eat. It is a source of comfort and pleasure. When we were younger, we couldn't reconcile that with our desire to be thin, and it led to the typical eating disorder issues. My sisters flirted with bulemia, most particularly the youngest. I just yo-yo dieted and convinced myself that when I was starving, pretty much literally, that meant that I was a good person. When I was eating, pretty much normally, that meant that I was bad. Well past the time that I should have known better, I was still punishing or rewarding myself based on whether or not I was able to resist the impulse to eat a slice of <gasp> pie or a bowl of ice cream. When I finally just gave up, it was in a BIG way (pun somewhat intended). My eating spiralled out of control, and it wasn't at all healthy. When my husband and I decided to start a family, and then spent the next decade + trying to get pregnant, I wasn't altogether surprised when my doctor told me that the primary cause of my infertility could not be determined and the assumption was that my weight was the main factor. I just figured, I'm being punished. I had WLS in my late 30's, primarily because I was told that it would cure my infertility. My WLS doctor actually looked me in the eye and promised me (yes, promised me!!) that I would get pregnant. I had a lot of problems after surgery. I couldn't eat without feeling miserable. Part of me was actually happy about that, at least initially. I thought that it meant I'd conquered my food demons. Hooray, me -- I'm not capable of eating more than a few teaspoons of pureed food! I confused my inability to do so with a lack of desire. Years later, I know that the desire is still there. I love good food, and family, and the tasty carb-loaded treats that we whip up when we're all together. 

For me, the switch flipped when I got to the point where I had nothing left to lose, self-esteem wise. I lost a lot of weight, and I still didn't feel worthy or pretty or any different at all. Somewhere along the way, I realized that I could either hate myself forever, or learn to love and accept who and what I am, warts and all. If I could go back in time and do one thing over, it would be just this one simple thing: I'd kick my younger ass into having this "a-ha" moment many years sooner. 




Ruffie said:


> Well my take on this has alot to do with what I have seen a friend go through of late with her weight loss. She and her husband are good friends of mine. To preface this she was not always a larger woman but gained after marrying her husband. For the past two years her husband has been going through all kinds of health problems. They have tried so many different tests, medications, diets and such to help him and still cannot pinpoint what it is. They have been told its MS, its varying forms of arthritis, its this disease and that and then no he doesn't test positive for those items. As a result of the stress(worry, financial concerns for the medications and trips to doctors, and seeing her husband suffer) and the different diets they have tried they have both lost weight. Her's being more noticeable at 50 lbs and because my buddy is a BHM his weight loss not as noticeable but he is down about 30lbs. People started congratulating her on her weight loss and asking what she is doing to have lost this amazing amount of weight. She is hearing how much better she looks and how sexy she is right now and so on. Her husband is getting no where near the same attention for his weight loss.
> This woman is a professional in the medical field and worked with me at the youth centre as a second job to take care of expenses they were experiencing. She is also a professional comedienne. *Yet somehow, since she lost weight her worth as a person has gone up. She and I have discussed this and she is pissed as hell about it.* She wants people to leave her alone about her wight loss and quit asking her about it and commenting how much better she looks now. Like she said "I feel sick most of the time and can barely eat anything cause of the stress, and when I do eat its the specialty diets hubby is on for his health as a support. I didn't intend to lose weight and I am so pale I have taken to tanning so as not to look anemic. "
> It boils down to the fact that her worth as a woman seems to be tied to her dress size. Like she said I am less of an embarrassment to my family now that I am thinner, suddenly people want to be around me and I haven't gained any new talents or personality traits. Her husband has lost weight as well and no one commenting and gushing at his loss. Why is it that women as a whole seem to be judged on their appearance? It seems the package we come in seems to be the most important thing to society. This is sad considering the talents that many women possess to be friends, wives, others, community leaders, professionals, sisters, mentors is not seen to be the primary criteria for thier worth as a female.
> This is why self acceptance is a process and a difficult one at that for most women. We can go out thinking we look like a million bucks and then hear a comment or two from people that shakes that confidence a little. We have friends and family that well meaning or not encourage us to be smaller to fit in, be healthier or look better. We have doctors who many times want to treat the fat not the symptoms we present to them. And we have insurance companies charging us extra for the risk we present. Also when we look at all the challenges we face in everyday society with seating, mobility, clothing options and peoples opinions its not a stretch to see that acceptance of oneself is something we need to work on everyday. In my opinion its not a given, its a choice to work against the bigotry and perceptions society has of fat people but especially fat women in general. Sorry this is so long, but I felt the need to spout on this topic.
> Ruth


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## imfree (Mar 19, 2009)

TraciJo67 said:


> I experienced the same thing when I lost weight.....snipped............
> For me, the switch flipped when I got to the point where I had nothing left to lose, self-esteem wise. I lost a lot of weight, and I still didn't feel worthy or pretty or any different at all. Somewhere along the way, I realized that I could either hate myself forever, or learn to love and accept who and what I am, warts and all. If I could go back in time and do one thing over, it would be just this one simple thing: I'd kick my younger ass into having this "a-ha" moment many years sooner.



That was a great, honest, and insightful post, TraciJo.
Your Rep is in the mail.:bow:


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