# Banned from prom as too busty



## Still Waters (Jun 10, 2013)

This young lady seems pretty average sized overall, not to say she isn't very nice up top but there is nothing extreme about her proportions.

http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2013/06/04/dnt-wa-breasts-too-big-for-prom.komo.html


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## Ruby Ripples (Jun 10, 2013)

According to the article it's not because she was too busty, it was because she violated prom dress code by showing cleavage. She DID have quite a mound of bust on view too, considering the code. But to really judge if she was unfairly treated, one would need to see photos of the other girls present to see if smaller busted girls had similarly low cut dresses on showing the same ratio of bare skin and cleavage, or if they had higher cut dresses, or were asked to cover up too.


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## AuntHen (Jun 10, 2013)

Why do people take every little thing to the media? When she sees the comments from the public, what do you think her esteem is going to be like? Worse than what wearing a silly shawl would do.

People are dying and suffering in this world and your life is ruined from prom night? I mean, come on!


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## loopytheone (Jun 10, 2013)

Oh for gods sake... how is this news? They gave you plenty of warning about the dresses, you can't then be pissed off that they chose to enforce them. That dress was incredibly low cut and that is why she wasn't allowed in. It aint difficult, I'm a 36F and I covered mine up when I went to my may ball.


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## Dromond (Jun 10, 2013)

Classic white people problems.


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## Rojodi (Jun 10, 2013)

the rule is asinine, asiten, asieleven. Really? What's the purpose to tell girls in 2013 to NOT show cleavage when more is shown at the beach and in most malls?

Puritan parents and school administrators wanting to be blind to what "might" happen later.


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## Dromond (Jun 10, 2013)

Rojodi said:


> the rule is asinine, asiten, asieleven. Really? What's the purpose to tell girls in 2013 to NOT show cleavage when more is shown at the beach and in most malls?
> 
> Puritan parents and school administrators wanting to be blind to what "might" happen later.



Whatever you may think about the school administrators, the rules were pretty clearly spelled out. She wanted to be an exception to the rules. It doesn't work like that.

Edit: The only reason CNN is covering this story is because she's a young busty white girl. :doh:


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## Rojodi (Jun 10, 2013)

Dromond said:


> Whatever you may think about the school administrators, the rules were pretty clearly spelled out. She wanted to be an exception to the rules. It doesn't work like that.



If I was her parents, I would have been bitching BEFORE the prom though, ask why this rule was in place, asking for a reason why strapless dresses and gowns were somewhat banned.


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## loopytheone (Jun 10, 2013)

Rojodi said:


> If I was her parents, I would have been bitching BEFORE the prom though, ask why this rule was in place, asking for a reason why strapless dresses and gowns were somewhat banned.



True, it is a dumb rule, but the article isn't about how stupid the rule is, it is about some chick claiming she is being discriminated against due to her marginally above average chest size.


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## Rojodi (Jun 10, 2013)

loopytheone said:


> True, it is a dumb rule, but the article isn't about how stupid the rule is, it is about some chick claiming she is being discriminated against due to her marginally above average chest size.



Her parents should have gone to the admins before the prom, asking for clarification, since their daughters isn't a "Golf ball bra" wearer. 

And going public AFTER the fact is, as Drommond said, White People Problems


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## b0nnie (Jun 10, 2013)

She knew the dress code and broke it, I have big breasts and I know there are dresses made that will hide them so that is no excuse. Any bad feelings she may have felt were her own fault for thinking that she was above the rules.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jun 10, 2013)

fat9276 said:


> People are dying and suffering in this world and your life is ruined from prom night? I mean, come on!



Isn't that pretty much the definition of adolescence?


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## AuntHen (Jun 10, 2013)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> Isn't that pretty much the definition of adolescence?




haha, true (to an extent)


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## Paul (Jun 10, 2013)

This is not news. The school had a dress code for their prom which was well publicized. So why is this girl surprised that when she arrived at the prom and was banned. Did she feel that the rules about showing clevage applied to every except girls with large busts? She could have covered her cleavage with a shawl, a sweater, by having the dress altered by a seamstress, or by purchasing a dress that covered her cleavage in the first place. She IS not being discriminated against when the school chose to enforce the rule about displaying cleavage at prom. The rule about displaying cleavage applied to all girls, not just to big busted girls. Move along...nothing to see here.



Still Waters said:


> This young lady seems pretty average sized overall, not to say she isn't very nice up top but there is nothing extreme about her proportions.
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/us/2013/06/04/dnt-wa-breasts-too-big-for-prom.komo.html


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## Extinctor100 (Jun 10, 2013)

Paul said:


> This is not news. The school had a dress code for their prom which was well publicized. So why is this girl surprised that when she arrived at the prom and was banned. Did she feel that the rules about showing clevage applied to every except girls with large busts?



It's called "trying to get attention." She couldn't get it the way she wanted to at the prom, so she's getting it on television instead. The power of self-entitlement cannot be silenced!


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## Wild Zero (Jun 10, 2013)

You know old school Dims is dead when a thread like this goes up on the main board and not one poster notes that this young woman was specifically targeted by a slut shaming school policy because of her size. Instead you have a bunch of posters attacking her for wearing a strapless gown that smaller students were not banned for wearing simply because her body is larger than her fellow students. 

Just three or four years ago this would have been a cause célèbre on Dims and a bunch of us might have even sent emails to the school district urging them to adopt a policy inclusive of all bodies. Instead the OP sexualises this young woman from the start and others followed suit in calling her all manner of names and accusing her of doing this all for attention. Damn right she's doing it for attention, she's drawing attention to a discriminatory dress code that exists to shame people with bodies outside "acceptable" sizes. 

Full support to this woman, I wish I had more hands so I could give this thread four thumbs down.


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## Extinctor100 (Jun 10, 2013)

Wild Zero said:


> Just three or four years ago this would have been a cause célèbre on Dims and a bunch of us might have even sent emails to the school district urging them to adopt a policy inclusive of all bodies. Instead the OP sexualises this young woman from the start and others followed suit in calling her all manner of names and accusing her of doing this all for attention. Damn right she's doing it for attention, she's drawing attention to a discriminatory dress code that exists to shame people with bodies outside "acceptable" sizes.



It doesn't seem to make sense to me to confuse the word "discriminatory" with "discreet." A community center like a school has the right to make a judgment call on how much naked flesh should be on display within their walls. The rule didn't say "women above a size 12 must cover their cleavage," it simply said no showing cleavage. It wasn't size discrimination at all.



Wild Zero said:


> Instead you have a bunch of posters attacking her for wearing a strapless gown that smaller students were not banned for wearing simply because her body is larger than her fellow students.



I didn't realize a) all the students were wearing the same gown! and b) that she is the largest girl in the school. LOL you have access to more information than I, sir. :bow:


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## AuntHen (Jun 10, 2013)

I am a tall, fat woman with big breasts.

Discrimination? 

Airplanes want to charge my fat behind more money for another plane seat in order for me to fly. That's discrimination.

Office jobs do not want to promote me and let me get up the ladder because I don't fit their public "profile" due to being fat. That's discrimination.

Certain department stores won't make decent clothes or heck, clothes at all for people my size. That's discrimination.

She wasn't banned from the prom. She wasn't told she could not wear a pretty sparkling dress. She wasn't told she was too fat for their school dance or from getting her picture taken for the yearbook.

She was told to cover up her BOOBS with the cleavage out for everyone to see. It's a school for people who are still considered adolescent CHILDREN! 

My boobs are big and certain clothing makes them more noticeable. I worked in an office where they told all kinds of girls to change due to skirts too short, too tight, too low cut. It's not discrimination, it's a DRESS CODE. Had I been told to change due to my cleavage, I would not have run to the media saying that because mine are big they singled me out plus... mine are BIG. I know they show more and there are certain things I could not wear in that office.

If her parents let her flounce around showing her cleavage to the world at home and when she hangs in the mall, etc. that's one thing, but it's a school for CHILDREN. They are not adults yet. The school can have a dress code. They do. She broke it. Do you seriously think they would not send another cleavage showing adolescent CHILD home? Do you have proof of this?

I am glad the school did what her father obviously did not. Made his baby girl put some darn clothes on!


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jun 10, 2013)

Extinctor100 said:


> I didn't realize a) all the students were wearing the same gown!
> 
> 
> It would've been a tight fit, would it not? But if you have experienced a high school prom (and I have chaperoned a few in my time), you doubtlessly noticed that most of the dresses are virtually identical (except, perhaps, for color). The school is not the only one with a dress code!
> ...



No, he's just more accurate in reporting. The story pointed out that the young lady in question is larger (in some respects) than the majority of her classmates. The conclusion that she is therefore "the largest girl in the school" is your own.


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## squurp (Jun 10, 2013)

Dr. Feelgood said:


> No, he's just more accurate in reporting. The story pointed out that the young lady in question is larger (in some respects) than the majority of her classmates. The conclusion that she is therefore "the largest girl in the school" is your own.



The problem with this school's rule, is that it is impossible to enforce without unfairly penalizing people with a larger chest. 

Yes, they knew the rule, but I seriously doubt this girl could have come up with a suitable dress to meet the requirements. 

Or look at it this way, if a thin girl wore the same exact dress, she would have gotten in to prom no problem, but if you are larger, no go, you have to wear something different. So, this is undue burden I think. 

If a rule has inherent bias like this, it is a problem.


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## Blackjack (Jun 10, 2013)

fat9276 said:


> It's a school for people who are still considered adolescent CHILDREN!



Clearly you're out of touch with what happens at and after high school proms.



Wild Zero said:


> You know old school Dims is dead when a thread like this goes up on the main board and not one poster notes that this young woman was specifically targeted by a slut shaming school policy because of her size. Instead you have a bunch of posters attacking her for wearing a strapless gown that smaller students were not banned for wearing simply because her body is larger than her fellow students.
> 
> Just three or four years ago this would have been a cause célèbre on Dims and a bunch of us might have even sent emails to the school district urging them to adopt a policy inclusive of all bodies. Instead the OP sexualises this young woman from the start and others followed suit in calling her all manner of names and accusing her of doing this all for attention. Damn right she's doing it for attention, she's drawing attention to a discriminatory dress code that exists to shame people with bodies outside "acceptable" sizes.
> 
> Full support to this woman, I wish I had more hands so I could give this thread four thumbs down.



Absolutely this. The lot of you should be ashamed of yourselves for calling her too "slutty" for daring to have larger breasts and wearing a similar style as her peers, or to call this inappropriate when the only difference between her and a friend of hers in the same dress would be the cup size. This is not a matter of whether or not people should be clutching their pearls over the fact that teenagers (not children- and stop acting as though they are) might see flesh, but a matter of a policy that discriminates against people who have larger breasts and bodies.


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## AuntHen (Jun 10, 2013)

squurp said:


> Yes, they knew the rule, but I seriously doubt this girl could have come up with a suitable dress to meet the requirements.



Did you see the dress? Baloney.


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## AuntHen (Jun 10, 2013)

Blackjack said:


> Clearly you're out of touch with what happens at and after high school proms.
> 
> 
> .




I was a teen once too Blackjack. This isn't about what the KIDS are up to, it's about what the ADULTS decided before it started. No one called her slutty or near that. It's funny how similar bodied women can say it's not discrimination but two dudes can.

And yes CHILDREN. Their adolescent brains are not fully developed even if their bodies are. They are not adults (even if some are legally 18).


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## Saoirse (Jun 10, 2013)

My prom dress didnt show any cleavage. The rules were in place, she broke one. Her fault.


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## Blackjack (Jun 10, 2013)

fat9276 said:


> I was a teen once too Blackjack. This isn't about what the KIDS are up to, it's about what the ADULTS decided before it started.



But you're acting as though this is a problem for the students attending the prom, as though they are virginal and unaware of sexuality. This is an erroneous assumption.



> No one called her slutty or near that.



That's funny cuz



Extinctor100 said:


> It's called "trying to get attention." She couldn't get it the way she wanted to at the prom, so she's getting it on television instead.





fat9276 said:


> If her parents let her flounce around showing her cleavage to the world at home and when she hangs in the mall, etc.
> 
> ...
> 
> I am glad the school did what her father obviously did not. Made his baby girl put some darn clothes on!



I seem to note some shaming comments here.



> And yes CHILDREN. Their adolescent brains are not fully developed even if their bodies are. They are not adults (even if some are legally 18).



Condescend all you like, but the fact is that the policy discriminates against larger body types and the age of the students does not have any bearing on that.


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## Extinctor100 (Jun 10, 2013)

Blackjack said:


> This is not a matter of whether or not people should be clutching their pearls over the fact that teenagers (not children- and stop acting as though they are) might see flesh, but a matter of a policy that discriminates against people who have larger breasts and bodies.



It would be discrimination if the school issued a standard dress that everybody had to wear to the prom, and its style/measurements were so badly mismatched to her body that she couldn't help but be exposing a lot of her large bosom.

It would be discrimination if the school had a rule that anyone over size 12 had to cover up, while everyone else could wear whatever they wanted.

It would be discrimination if she was voted prom queen by her fellow students but the Prom Committee gave it to someone else because they didn't want a "fat girl" to be Prom Queen.

But it's people like this prom-drama-queen that make "discrimination" into a joke instead of a serious issue. That's the real shame. Instead of doing what the other large, busty girls did (since Dr. Feelgood confirmed reports there are other plus-sized girls in her class) and dress within the guidelines of the school, she breaks the rules intentionally - she states repeatedly that she knows she has a large bust, so it was no accident - and then when she gets called on it, she cries "discrimination."

It's like getting pulled over for driving without your seat belt, and then telling the police officer that you were running late for work and needed to get there on time. The officer gives you a ticket, and then you cry that "police discriminate against people who want to get to work on time." :doh: I'm sorry. If you left on time, you wouldn't have gotten the ticket. Same thing. We're sorry that rules discriminate against people who knowingly break them.

There are lots of truly valid ways that people are hatefully, cruelly, unfairly discriminated against. This just isn't one of them. A plus-sized woman can't yell "IT'S ONLY BECAUSE I'M FAT, ISN'T IT?" every time someone disapproves of something she says or does. That's just a manipulative, self-entitled, victim mentality that detracts from the credibility of _real_ abuse victims.


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## Wild Zero (Jun 10, 2013)

You guys are the absolute worst fat activists.


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## Saoirse (Jun 10, 2013)

It has nothing to do with her size. Chicks with mosquito bites can get cleavage goin with the right bra. Rule says no cleavage, so you get a dress that follows that rule. Different dresses look differently on different people, but the rule is only about cleavage and its the same for everyone at that school


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## Saoirse (Jun 10, 2013)

Wild Zero said:


> You guys are the absolute worst fat activists.



I never claimed to be one. Sorry


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## AuntHen (Jun 10, 2013)

It's not calling a girl a slut or even implying it to say as a parent, especially a father, would not be concerned over what his daughter wore around a bunch of horny teens. As you said... all those things that go on during and after prom.

I suppose if she had her cooch out and was told to change, because IT was larger than the other girls, you would think that was discrimination also. Give me a break.


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## Blackjack (Jun 10, 2013)

fat9276 said:


> It's not calling a girl a slut or even implying it to say as a parent, especially a father, would not be concerned over what his daughter wore around a bunch of horny teens. As you said... all those things that go on during and after prom.



Oh, so they're not children anymore?



> I suppose if she had her cooch out and was told to change, because IT was larger than the other girls, you would think that was discrimination also. Give me a break.



There's a pretty big difference between cleavage and full exposure. Are you seriously comparing the two?


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## AuntHen (Jun 10, 2013)

Blackjack said:


> Oh, so they're not children anymore?
> 
> 
> 
> There's a pretty big difference between cleavage and full exposure. Are you seriously comparing the two?




teens are children, adolescent children, same thing


both are considered sexual body parts... do you deny this? does cleavage not turn people on? or catch sexual attention? It sure does on the fat sexuality board. why would the rule be in place? just for adipose tissue sake? I mean seriously.

white knighting a cause is not activism


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## Extinctor100 (Jun 10, 2013)

Blackjack said:


> There's a pretty big difference between cleavage and full exposure. Are you seriously comparing the two?



The point being that she isn't championing the liberation of women's expression of their bodies and sexuality by shooting down the dress code rule on behalf of all the girls in her school. She's saying people are being mean to her because she's fat, when in reality her size has nothing to do with the issue.


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## Dromond (Jun 11, 2013)

Saoirse said:


> My prom dress didnt show any cleavage. *The rules were in place, she broke one. Her fault.*



The bolded part sums up the situation nicely.


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## Wild Zero (Jun 11, 2013)

Extinctor100 said:


> The point being that she isn't championing the liberation of women's expression of their bodies and sexuality by shooting down the dress code rule on behalf of all the girls in her school. She's saying people are being mean to her because she's fat, when in reality her size has nothing to do with the issue.



Oh man, never date a fat partner or become fat yourself. Too much fat hate to even live with that shit.


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## FatAndProud (Jun 11, 2013)

Good thing I never went to prom. My breasts would've got me banned from life. For real, though. She's bringing attention because the United States is still stuck on its conservative, religious schtick when there's shows on MTV called Teen Mom that should be banned. Who the fuck cares if cleavage shows. Girls show their body all the time - skinny or fat. But I do believe she's causing a stir because she's chunky and trying to dress like her smaller peers. It doesn't need to be said, we know society loves to see chubby/fat girls portrayed negatively and as a scarlet letter. GASP big tittied teen shows top boob! Really? Really? I'm going back to not giving a fuck. I truly hate people. Lol


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## FatAndProud (Jun 11, 2013)

Extinctor100 said:


> A plus-sized woman can't yell "IT'S ONLY BECAUSE I'M FAT, ISN'T IT?" every time someone disapproves of something she says or does. That's just a manipulative, self-entitled, victim mentality that detracts from the credibility of _real_ abuse victims.



Fat women are abused, scrutinized, marginalized, and discriminated against every single day. This is ignorant. Weight is a prominent fixture in today's society and until people, like you, decide to accept that, we cannot facilitate change. I'm fat and I'm very vocal about unfair practices regarding size and any other prosecuted group. People deserve to be treated equally. Period. We don't need you to validate who a victim is. Walk a mile in my fat shoes, bud.


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## b0nnie (Jun 11, 2013)

Wild Zero said:


> You guys are the absolute worst fat activists.



There's fat activism then there's using your size as a way to try to get away with breaking the rules...that's what this girl did. I know for a fact that if I _want _to I can easily dress up without showing my cleavage and going from her picture, well I've purposely picked dresses that fit me like hers did because of how it made my cleavage look. There is no excuse for not following a set dress code, using size is bull.


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## Dromond (Jun 11, 2013)

I reject the notion that we must support someone no matter what simply because they are fat.


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## FatAndProud (Jun 11, 2013)

I didn't say support someone no matter what because they are fat. I'm saying give me a chance EVEN THOUGH I am fat.


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## loopytheone (Jun 11, 2013)

squurp said:


> The problem with this school's rule, is that it is impossible to enforce without unfairly penalizing people with a larger chest.
> 
> Yes, they knew the rule, but I seriously doubt this girl could have come up with a suitable dress to meet the requirements.
> 
> ...



This is bull, sorry. It is very easy to get a dress that covers the chest in that style and even easier to wear a shawl over the exposed cleavage. My may ball dress covers everything from the neck down as a matter of fact and I am a big breasted lady, at least as large as the girl in the article. When shopping for these style of dresses it is actually pretty 50:50 between ones that show cleavage and ones that don't. Besides which, she wasn't showing just a little bit of cleavage she has showing a lot, that dress was very low cut. I imagine even a girl with a smaller chest would have been called out for cut of it, the only person in that whole article moaning about it being due to the size of anything is the girl and even she was saying it was due to the size of her chest and not size in general. 



Blackjack said:


> I seem to note some shaming comments here.



Okay, I can't get it to quote the quotes you quoted (say that ten times fast) but I don't think they were shaming at all. You can say that a person has a lot of boob or leg or butt or whatever on display without it being shaming. You can say that it is inappropriate to show that much at a certain place/event without it being shaming. I wouldn't go to a funeral dressed in a crop top and a mini skirt because it isn't appropriate, not because people would 'slut shame' me.



b0nnie said:


> There's fat activism then there's using your size as a way to try to get away with breaking the rules...that's what this girl did. I know for a fact that if I _want _to I can easily dress up without showing my cleavage and going from her picture, well I've purposely picked dresses that fit me like hers did because of how it made my cleavage look. There is no excuse for not following a set dress code, using size is bull.





Dromond said:


> I reject the notion that we must support someone no matter what simply because they are fat.



*This.* I tried to rep you Dromond because I agree entirely but it wouldn't let me. :doh:


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## Wild Zero (Jun 11, 2013)

Exactly the point



squurp said:


> The problem with this school's rule, is that it is impossible to enforce without unfairly penalizing people with a larger chest.
> 
> Yes, they knew the rule, but I seriously doubt this girl could have come up with a suitable dress to meet the requirements.
> 
> ...


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## vardon_grip (Jun 11, 2013)

Large breasts or ample bosoms are found on women of all sizes.

This is not a matter of size discrimination and to say so is ridiculous. 
To say that others here are the absolute worst size activists is even more ridiculous. Brittany Minder herself doesn't say she was discriminated against because she is fat. "In my opinion, I feel that it is because I am bigger chested and there is more cleavage that you can see and there's nothing I can really do about that.". 

It is curious to note that in her news interview, Brittany was able to find a dress that showed her large bosom yet had sheer material that covered her cleavage. It fit the school rules. It is hard to tell by the reporting if she travelled to Canada to get the dress or had it shipped from Canada. Guess she just couldn't find a dress in Tacoma, Seattle or even Bellingham. (or online for that matter) If she did travel all the way to Vancouver BC (or there about) for just a prom dress, it seems to me that she could have afforded a custom altered (or possibly custom made) dress that fit the rules. A picture of the dress shows that it has corset laces in the back. The corset feature could enhance an already ample bosom. (hell, it could have been the reason she chose the dress) She had to know that the the dress didn't conform to the school rules and decided to wear it anyway.

This isn't a matter of inequality or injustice. Brittany wasn't "banned" from her prom. She was allowed to enter when she conformed to the rules by covering up with a shawl. It was her choice to leave after an hour.


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## Saoirse (Jun 11, 2013)

No. She could easily found a dress that was gorgeous and still fell within guidelines of the dress code. She's just being an attention whore. Fat or thin, she broke the rules and now she's bitching about it cause she was caught and reprimanded. 


This kinda reminds me of something that happened around here. A kid pulled a "senior prank" and he got in trouble and his punishment was that he wasn't able to do any senior week stuff, including prom. People were pissed. I asked what he did to get this punishment. He broke into the school when it was closed! That's breaking and entering, and as far as I'm concerned, he's lucky that he's only missing prom and NOT having charges brought against him.


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## Tracyarts (Jun 11, 2013)

I must be a slut-shaming, body-policing fat-hater.

Because all I see in this story is a Special Snowflake who felt entitled to break the rules because her body size/shape should exempt her from them, and then cried discriminiation when it didn't so much go the way she had hoped.

And I know exactly where she is coming from. Truly, I do.

When I was a teenager, miniskirts were *all the rage*. But my school had a dress code stating that skirts had to cover a certain amount of leg. On girls of average height, this was not a problem. But I was several inches taller than average height. I couldn't find a single miniskirt that was long enough on me to be within the school dress code guidelines. Was this discrimination? I don't think so. Did I feel that having longer legs than the rest of the girls entitled me to violate the dress code? No. How did I cope? I chose not to violate the dress code and only wore short skirts to school and school functions if I had a pair of leggings underneath (which was an allowed compromise to bring me into compliance with the dress code). 

It sucks that she feels discriminated against, and that her choices led to her not being able to enjoy her prom. But, one of the harsh realities of life in the real world is that the rules don't always seem fair. And as a young woman coming into adulthood, it's a lesson she'd be learning sooner or later. 

Tracy


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## Dromond (Jun 11, 2013)

What she's actually learned, though, is that CNN will let her talk about her boobs to a worldwide audience. :doh:


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## Tracyarts (Jun 11, 2013)

" What she's actually learned, though, is that CNN will let her talk about her boobs to a worldwide audience. "

LOL!


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## Extinctor100 (Jun 11, 2013)

FatAndProud said:


> Fat women are abused, scrutinized, marginalized, and discriminated against every single day. This is ignorant. Weight is a prominent fixture in today's society and until people, like you, decide to accept that, we cannot facilitate change. I'm fat and I'm very vocal about unfair practices regarding size and any other prosecuted group. People deserve to be treated equally. Period. We don't need you to validate who a victim is. Walk a mile in my fat shoes, bud.



There's nothing ignorant or hateful about pointing out that phony accounts of "discrimination" detract from the credibility of real accounts of discrimination. This is what's popularly known as "crying wolf." Thus there exists the intelligent need to validate who is _really_ a victim and who isn't, rather than blindly assuming a person is right because they have the *appearance of someone who gets discriminated against*.

To illustrate, if a man is fired from his job for poor performance, sexual harassment, and consistent lateness to work, and then he cries "IT'S BECAUSE I'M GAY, ISN'T IT?" ... I'm sorry. That is not discrimination against gays. He broke rules and got the consequences. He could go on the news and say that he was fired because he was gay, but that would be a lie and a deflection from the real issue that he failed to comply with the same rules everyone is expected to follow.

I would expect that true proponents of equality would want people who make hilariously false claims of "discrimination" called out, so that accounts of real discrimination don't get lumped in with them.  When someone "cries wolf" too often, no one really believes them when they are in real danger.


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## loopytheone (Jun 11, 2013)

Extinctor100 said:


> There's nothing ignorant or hateful about pointing out that phony accounts of "discrimination" detract from the credibility of real accounts of discrimination. This is what's popularly known as "crying wolf." Thus there exists the intelligent need to validate who is _really_ a victim and who isn't, rather than blindly assuming a person is right because they have the *appearance of someone who gets discriminated against*.
> 
> To illustrate, if a man is fired from his job for poor performance, sexual harassment, and consistent lateness to work, and then he cries "IT'S BECAUSE I'M GAY, ISN'T IT?" ... I'm sorry. That is not discrimination against gays. He broke rules and got the consequences. He could go on the news and say that he was fired because he was gay, but that would be a lie and a deflection from the real issue that he failed to comply with the same rules everyone is expected to follow.



One day I will have enough rep to rep you. One day.


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## squurp (Jun 11, 2013)

fat9276 said:


> Did you see the dress? Baloney.



I am married to a busty woman with lots of curves. Unless you custom design and make a dress (and I mean you personally design it, because most designers can't handle plus sizes), you WILL have cleavage. Not that I mind. I have seen the struggles my wife has with formal wear, and I have a lot of sympathy with this young lady. 

I see the comments above mentioning how easy it is to find a suitable dress. Do you live in New York City, or Los Angeles? Perhaps a particularly well equipped smaller town, but It is not happening where I live. 

This is an example of institutional discrimination and here is why:

Thinner girl with small chest - walks into boutique store, selects from 100 or so dresses in her size, picks one she likes, and since she is small chested, none of them display cleavage. She buys one for $75. (or appropriate reasonable price)

Larger girl goes to boutique store, 2 dresses are available in her size, since she is busty, cleavage is present even with a V neck T-shirt. So, these two dresses both show cleavage, even though one is the exact same style as above mentioned dress. Oh by the way, plus sized, so it costs $500. The shawl to hide cleavage is not in stock so has to be special ordered, $150. Dress needs to be altered because while it fits chest, is too large in waist and bottom $100. 1 week before dance, notified shawl/wrap is backordered and won't be in(special order though, so have to pay either way). Dress needs altered to hide cleavage, $100. (amalgam of personal experience).

So, while the rule is simple and seems cut and dried, it puts an undue burden on a specific subset of people. 

Look, we used to have reading tests to vote, right? Makes sense you should be able to read to vote, except the law was actually used to prevent minorities from voting. there was undue burden on those minorities. Now, the magnitude is different for sure, but the technique is the same. Create a benign, sensible rule, in order to create a burden which would prevent a subset from participating. ONly beautiful people should be at prom, anyway, right?

Years ago, an acquaintance of mine was turned away from prom for wearing a full dress suit and kilt (he was of scottish descent, and proud of his heritage, it was family's tartan). He was heavy set and not popular. The previous year, at the other school prom in the district, they allowed a boy to come in a kilt, but he was on the football team (and I don't think scottish, but I am not sure - tannest Scottish boy I've ever seen if he was Scottish). This crap goes on all the time. It is sometimes so subtle, it is hard to fight - even on here, people in this community do not see the subtlety of it. Go figure.


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## Deven (Jun 11, 2013)

squurp said:


> Yes, they knew the rule, but I seriously doubt this girl could have come up with a suitable dress to meet the requirements.



Bull. There were top heavier girls at my prom with the same rules as this prom, and they were adhered to easily.



Saoirse said:


> My prom dress didnt show any cleavage. The rules were in place, she broke one. Her fault.



Agreed. We were given a flier with the dress code when we signed up for prom tickets, had a meeting a few months before prom (which they had specifically for the girls who spent months looking for the perfect dress,) and had another meeting reiterating the rules the day of prom (before we were excused to go get ready for the day.)

She was well aware that she would be asked to leave. She knew it the second she put that dress on.



Blackjack said:


> Condescend all you like, but the fact is that the policy discriminates against larger body types and the age of the students does not have any bearing on that.



Honestly, if she had the money to go ALL THE WAY TO CANADA to find that dress, she had the money to get one that covered up her cleavage/fit properly. As a fat girl who went to THREE proms, 2 of them not my own, I had no issues finding dresses that covered me appropriately without looking like an old maid because I dress modestly. My only issue was money, and 2 of my three prom dresses were gorgeous (the first one was a last minute sort of deal that has a long story behind it, but that night wasn't about me, it was about him.)




Dromond said:


> I reject the notion that we must support someone no matter what simply because they are fat.



I second this.


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## AuntHen (Jun 11, 2013)

squurp said:


> I am married to a busty woman with lots of curves. Unless you custom design and make a dress (and I mean you personally design it, because most designers can't handle plus sizes), you WILL have cleavage. .




Nope. Try again. _I _am a big breasted woman and I have no problem covering my cleavage if I want, any time I want. They even make special pieces that can cover just that part and are made to fit inside your shirt or dress and cover just that part.


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## Extinctor100 (Jun 11, 2013)

squurp said:


> This is an example of institutional discrimination and here is why:
> 
> Thinner girl with small chest - walks into boutique store, selects from 100 or so dresses in her size, picks one she likes, and since she is small chested, none of them display cleavage. She buys one for $75. (or appropriate reasonable price)
> 
> ...



That's a perfectly valid point. The clothing industry and retailers are not fat-friendly, to say the least! There's way too many hoops to jump through and way too much cost involved. Agreed.

But it has nothing to do with the prom-drama-queen girl in the news spot. As real as the dilemma is for full-figured or large-busted women, it wasn't that she wasn't _able_ to find a dress that met the requirements of the dress code. It was that she chose a dress that blatantly violated it and she feels that she should be the exception to the rule! According to both her and her parents, _they don't even think the rule is wrong_, they just feel that she shouldn't be subject to it because she's special. Even her dad says, "A *girl like Britney* shouldn't have to go to a dance in a burlap sack." Apparently her dad is okay with all the flat-chested girls wearing burlap sacks, but not his daughter! And her mother says "All women are *not* created equal." Even taking that comment the most positive way possible, maybe she's suggesting different rules for different body types.... because that always creates equality. :doh:

If this girl is _so_ self-conscious, and _so_ adamant about making sure her prom night was perfect and unsullled by the trauma of her dress choice being criticized so damagingly, she should have checked with the prom committee in advance to make sure her daring move was approved beforehand. Instead, she just decided her way was better than the rule, and now she's playing the victim when someone in authority told her "no."


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## Saoirse (Jun 11, 2013)

And she wasn't fucking banned from prom for having huge tits. She was asked to cover up because her her boobs were hanging out too much and she chose to leave. JFC why is this even news?


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## loopytheone (Jun 11, 2013)

fat9276 said:


> Nope. Try again. _I _am a big breasted woman and I have no problem covering my cleavage if I want, any time I want. They even make special pieces that can cover just that part and are made to fit inside your shirt or dress and cover just that part.



Exactly. Plus I don't understand any of that shawl not being there business at all. Just buy a shawl. They aren't hard to find, they come in many colours and if somebody asked me to pay £150 for a tiny scrap of material I would laugh them out of the shop! Also, not all dresses need to be altered to fit people with big boobs at all, as somebody who at the time had a 13 inch difference between my chest and my waist - 6/7 inches difference is the retail standard - I have found that with some looking around it is easy enough to find dresses that cover up everything they need to, fit my figure and aren't expensive. 

And I doubt every single woman in this thread lives near a big city. I live in a village in a collection of villages and even my 'local' city isn't exactly huge and filled with shops, never mind trying to find ball gowns in our run down gun ridden city. If you really can't find anything in real life then go online. I had a friend who was about 5'6, 350lbs with extremely large breasts for her frame and she found a dress that was suitable with no problem either. I really don't see why this girl couldn't. The internet is a much bigger place now days than it was back in 2006 when me and my peers were looking for ball gowns.


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## Extinctor100 (Jun 11, 2013)

loopytheone said:


> Exactly. Plus I don't understand any of that shawl not being there business at all. Just buy a shawl. They aren't hard to find, they come in many colours and if somebody asked me to pay £150 for a tiny scrap of material I would laugh them out of the shop! Also, not all dresses need to be altered to fit people with big boobs at all, as somebody who at the time had a 13 inch difference between my chest and my waist - 6/7 inches difference is the retail standard - I have found that with some looking around it is easy enough to find dresses that cover up everything they need to, fit my figure and aren't expensive.
> 
> And I doubt every single woman in this thread lives near a big city. I live in a village in a collection of villages and even my 'local' city isn't exactly huge and filled with shops, never mind trying to find ball gowns in our run down gun ridden city. If you really can't find anything in real life then go online. I had a friend who was about 5'6, 350lbs with extremely large breasts for her frame and she found a dress that was suitable with no problem either. I really don't see why this girl couldn't. The internet is a much bigger place now days than it was back in 2006 when me and my peers were looking for ball gowns.



:throws imaginary Rep at you: 

Again, prom-drama Britney wasn't limited by anything except her need to do things her way. She simply assumed the rules everyone agreed with (including her) would bend for her because she's too special for rules.


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## Dromond (Jun 12, 2013)

Saoirse said:


> And she wasn't fucking banned from prom for having huge tits. She was asked to cover up because her her boobs were hanging out too much and she chose to leave. JFC why is this even news?



Because, boobs.


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## Deven (Jun 12, 2013)

Saoirse said:


> And she wasn't fucking banned from prom for having huge tits. She was asked to cover up because her her boobs were hanging out too much and she chose to leave. JFC why is this even news?



I have apparently given out too much rep in the last 24 hours... so, have some public acknowledgement of how awesome you are.

It's news because of the same vein as this girl. Who believes she didn't get into college of her dreams because of Affirmative Action, not the fact she only had a 3.59 GPA, below average SAT score of 1180, and wasn't in the top 10% of her class.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Jun 12, 2013)

Deven said:


> It's news because of the same vein as this girl. Who believes she didn't get into college of her dreams because of Affirmative Action, not the fact she only had a 3.59 GPA, below average SAT score of 1180, and wasn't in the top 10% of her class.



These incidents may be indications of a larger problem.


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## indy500tchr (Jun 12, 2013)

Deven said:


> It's news because of the same vein as this girl. Who believes she didn't get into college of her dreams because of Affirmative Action, not the fact she only had a 3.59 GPA, below average SAT score of 1180, and wasn't in the top 10% of her class.



Wow they must have high standards at that school. I had a lower GPA, same SAT scores and was only in the top 25% of my class and still was able to get into a good school.


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## tonynyc (Jun 12, 2013)

indy500tchr said:


> Wow they must have high standards at that school. I had a lower GPA, same SAT scores and was only in the top 25% of my class and still was able to get into a good school.



Also there's so many other factors to consider other than GPA /SAT scores.
She has good grades-but, if she were to be compared to the pool of applicants-might not be all that special...

She also had options as the school (UT) was willing to let her apply to a different campus with the option of transferring at a later time...

At the end of the day, not the brightest of moves to sue to UT- if she devoted more time into her next move- could have gotten a better job - I also think she can basically kiss off any chance of getting into any of the TOP MBA programs 

U.S. News & World Report’s 2013 Top 25 (MBA) Programs

2013 Rank & School Index 2012 Rank Change 
1. Harvard 100.0 1 — 
1. Stanford GSB 100.0 1 — 
3. UPenn (Wharton) 99.0 3 — 
4. MIT (Sloan) 97.0 4 — 
4. Northwestern (Kellogg) 97.0 4 — 
6. Chicago (Booth) 96.0 4 -2 
7. UC-Berkeley (Haas) 93.0 7 — 
8. Columbia 91.0 8 — 
9. Dartmouth (Tuck) 90.0 9 — 
10. NYU (Stern) 87.0 10 — 
11. Duke (Fuqua) 86.0 12 +1 
12. Virginia (Darden) 85.0 13 +1 
13. Yale 84.0 10 -3 
14. UCLA (Anderson) 82.0 15 +1 
14. Michigan (Ross) 82.0 13 -1 
16. Cornell (Johnson) 80.0 16 — 
*17. Texas-Austin (McCombs) 79.0 17 — *
18. Emory (Goizueta) 76.0 19 +1 
19. Carnegie Mellon (Tepper)75.0 18 -1 
20. UNC (Kenan-Flagler) 74.0 19 -1 
21. Washington (Olin) 71.0 22 -1 
22. Indiana (Kelley) 70.0 23 -1 
23. Minnesota (Carlson) 69.0 30 +7 
23. Washington (Foster) 69.0 35 +12 
25. Georgetown (McDonough)68.0 24 -1 

Source: U.S. News & World Report 2013 MBA Ranking


==========================

As for Ms. Fisher's attorney- all in a days work. He graduated from a great institution- not too shabby.... 


*Bert W. Rein*
Born: c. 1939


Gender: Male
Race or Ethnicity: White
Occupation: Attorney
Party Affiliation: Republican [1]

Nationality: United States
Executive summary: Wiley Rein & Fielding


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1] Key Issues Committee, Nixon presidential campaign 1968. 
*University: BA, Amherst College (1961)
Law School: LLB, Harvard Law School (1964)
*


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## KittyKitten (Jun 13, 2013)

Ruby Ripples said:


> According to the article it's not because she was too busty, it was because she violated prom dress code by showing cleavage. She DID have quite a mound of bust on view too, considering the code. But to really judge if she was unfairly treated, one would need to see photos of the other girls present to see if smaller busted girls had similarly low cut dresses on showing the same ratio of bare skin and cleavage, or if they had higher cut dresses, or were asked to cover up too.




It all seems more clear now, I was expecting a Norma Stitz whopper pair of tits. But the cleavage explanation puts it into perspective. The silly news media likes to twist things for ratings. Now you have folks going around thinking she was banned for having large breasts! Silly!

Unfortunately, I noticed that the curvier girls are harassed more for their outfits than their angular peers by jealous administrators or staff that are afraid they will get a hard on by seeing outline of curvature. However, she shouldn't be showing that much cleavage in a school prom in the first place. It's A SCHOOL PROM! She knows damn well better than that! Now if she were grown and going to a non-school function, there would be no problem.


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## Observer (Jun 13, 2013)

Whether this young lady has a gripe or not is unfortunately not as cut and dried as some think.

According to posters on other sites pictures of the prom goers are available on the Internet - and clearly show that girls with smaller breasts but similar degrees of exposed clevage were not banned. There is therefore a possible lack of consistancy based on the subjective judgement of the code enforcers.

It should be noted that it was the girl's outraged parents who first went to the media on this. It was not an adolescent trying to get publicity. And what she and they want is an apology from the district and future consistancy to avoid others being subjected to the same treatment.

Personally if it had been my call I would say she had made reasonable efforts to comply with admittedly ambiguous guidelines and let her in. But then I'm not trying to control everyone else to conform to my tastes.


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## Dromond (Jun 13, 2013)

She. Wasn't. Banned. She left in a huff after they asked her to cover up a bit to comply with the dress code.


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## bigmac (Jun 13, 2013)

Dromond said:


> Because, boobs.



Yes, but why the hell are school officials so concerned about them?


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## loopytheone (Jun 13, 2013)

bigmac said:


> Yes, but why the hell are school officials so concerned about them?



I'm not sure but I remember that one school teacher had an unhealthy infatuation with mine...


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## AuntHen (Jun 13, 2013)

bigmac said:


> Yes, but why the hell are school officials so concerned about them?



Dress code rules such as this, found in schools, business offices, etc. are in place due to liability issues. To avoid or lessen chances of harassment and/or unwanted attention (be it sexual or other).


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## Wild Zero (Jun 13, 2013)

So this young woman was singled out because other people can't see flesh without sexually harassing women.

Still wrong, still gross.


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## Diana_Prince245 (Jun 13, 2013)

Wild Zero said:


> So this young woman was singled out because other people can't see flesh without sexually harassing women.
> 
> Still wrong, still gross.



The rule she broke disproportionately affected heavier women. I'm shocked people here are OK with the unfairness of it. I'm disappointed people who are fat themselves are body shaming this child and the rest of us with large breasts by mocking her for not being able to find a dress that didn't show her cleavage. I struggle to find scrubs that don't show cleavage, and they're pretty far from formal wear, which tends to be more body conscious.


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## loopytheone (Jun 13, 2013)

Diana_Prince245 said:


> The rule she broke disproportionately affected heavier women. I'm shocked people here are OK with the unfairness of it. I'm disappointed people who are fat themselves are body shaming this child and the rest of us with large breasts by mocking her for not being able to find a dress that didn't show her cleavage. I struggle to find scrubs that don't show cleavage, and they're pretty far from formal wear, which tends to be more body conscious.



How on earth are we body shaming her? I don't know where you are getting that from at all. All we are saying is that she should have stuck to the rules and has no place complaining that, shockingly, she was asked to abide by them. Having big tits doesn't mean you don't have to abide by the same rules as everybody else. The rules apply for everybody, fat or not. And we aren't mocking her for not being able to find a dress that doesn't show cleavage, we are mocking the idea that a woman would be unable to mind such a thing. Formal dresses are not scrubs and frankly as many people have pointed out wearing a shawl would have done the job fine. 

I don't see why people think that just because this girl is fat she has the right to break the same rules that apply to everybody else.


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## vardon_grip (Jun 13, 2013)

I didn't see body shaming comments. I assume that these comments are subjective to the reader.


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## cinnamonkiss (Jun 13, 2013)

Well said blackjack:eat1:


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## Deven (Jun 13, 2013)

Blackjack said:


> Clearly you're out of touch with what happens at and after high school proms.
> 
> 
> 
> Absolutely this. The lot of you should be ashamed of yourselves for calling her too "slutty" for daring to have larger breasts and wearing a similar style as her peers, or to call this inappropriate when the only difference between her and a friend of hers in the same dress would be the cup size. This is not a matter of whether or not people should be clutching their pearls over the fact that teenagers (not children- and stop acting as though they are) might see flesh, but a matter of a policy that discriminates against people who have larger breasts and bodies.



Going to say: I didn't say she was slutty before I get roped into this. I think she looks fantastic, but I feel she is definitely violating the dress code, and she knew she would violate the dress code by wearing that dress. All she needed to do was look in the mirror to see that. The cut of the dress, in my opinion, shows the intent to break this rule. While, I admit, I don't have huge tits, as I keep saying, there were plenty of girls at my proms who were plus sized with big breasts that found beautiful gowns that kept within the rules (which were strictly enforced. I watched them eject girls at the door for too short, too busty, midriff exposed.)

I also want to be a teacher and would've strictly applied the dress code across the board, for what it's worth.


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## Extinctor100 (Jun 13, 2013)

Deven said:


> I think she looks fantastic, but I feel she is definitely violating the dress code, and she knew she would violate the dress code by wearing that dress. All she needed to do was look in the mirror to see that. The cut of the dress, in my opinion, shows the intent to break this rule.



To expand on this very valid point yet again, let me remind everyone for the hundredth time: according to the news, neither she nor her parents think there is anything wrong with the rule. They don't object to what the rule is. They just don't think it should have applied to her. They either decided *a)* the amount of cleavage she was showing did not violate the rule, or *b)* "screw the rule, Britney is special" ... but _they_ agree with the rule that all you guys are calling dumb, unfair, and discriminatory.

You can argue for the liberation of the female bustline in high schools, and debate the vague ethics behind the _prevention_ of sexual harassment/assault all you want. You can do it til the Sun dies and that's fine with me. But the fact of the matter is that this girl agreed to a rule and then violated it, and then expects to be vindicated because she feels bad. Aw.


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## AuntHen (Jun 13, 2013)

Wild Zero said:


> So this young woman was singled out because other people can't see flesh without sexually harassing women.
> 
> Still wrong, still gross.




How was she singled out? Dress code would mostly likely apply to school grounds/hours and functions. How do you know how many they have or have not sent home from school, told to cover up and/or denied at this dance or others during the entire school year? 

And obviously if rules such as this are in place to protect the students and the school from harassment and/or harassment suits, then yes, it is a probability. There are people in this world who unfortunately have these weaknesses. I don't think that is news to anyone.



I also know that private schools and businesses have certain dress code rules for personal beliefs and professional image as well. I do not recall if this was a public school or not.


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## Extinctor100 (Jun 13, 2013)

fat9276 said:


> And obviously if rules such as this are in place to protect the students and the school from harassment and/or harassment suits, then yes, it is a probability. There are people in this world who unfortunately have these weaknesses. I don't think that is news to anyone.



Oh my sweet Lord, thank you for good old common sense. I'm so absolutely weary of idealistic people pushing that we can somehow reform the depravity of human beings with enough social programs and Ad Council commercials. I promise, we're working hard to evolve beyond temptation. It just takes time.


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## vardon_grip (Jun 13, 2013)

No fat shaming here. Idiot shaming maybe. She read (or refused to read) the dress code and by signing her name agreed to abide by the dress code set down by the school. She chose to ignore her commitment. Her parents are ridiculous also.


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## Dromond (Jun 13, 2013)

Deven said:


> Going to say: I didn't say she was slutty before I get roped into this. I think she looks fantastic, but I feel she is definitely violating the dress code, and she knew she would violate the dress code by wearing that dress. All she needed to do was look in the mirror to see that. The cut of the dress, in my opinion, shows the intent to break this rule. While, I admit, I don't have huge tits, as I keep saying, there were plenty of girls at my proms who were plus sized with big breasts that found beautiful gowns that kept within the rules (which were strictly enforced. I watched them eject girls at the door for too short, too busty, midriff exposed.)
> 
> I also want to be a teacher and would've strictly applied the dress code across the board, for what it's worth.





Extinctor100 said:


> To expand on this very valid point yet again, let me remind everyone for the hundredth time: according to the news, neither she nor her parents think there is anything wrong with the rule. They don't object to what the rule is. They just don't think it should have applied to her. They either decided *a)* the amount of cleavage she was showing did not violate the rule, or *b)* "screw the rule, Britney is special" ... but _they_ agree with the rule that all you guys are calling dumb, unfair, and discriminatory.
> 
> You can argue for the liberation of the female bustline in high schools, and debate the vague ethics behind the _prevention_ of sexual harassment/assault all you want. You can do it til the Sun dies and that's fine with me. But the fact of the matter is that this girl agreed to a rule and then violated it, and then expects to be vindicated because she feels bad. Aw.





fat9276 said:


> How was she singled out? Dress code would mostly likely apply to school grounds/hours and functions. How do you know how many they have or have not sent home from school, told to cover up and/or denied at this dance or others during the entire school year?
> 
> And obviously if rules such as this are in place to protect the students and the school from harassment and/or harassment suits, then yes, it is a probability. There are people in this world who unfortunately have these weaknesses. I don't think that is news to anyone.
> 
> ...





vardon_grip said:


> No fat shaming here. Idiot shaming maybe. She read (or refused to read) the dress code and by signing her name agreed to abide by the dress code set down by the school. She chose to ignore her commitment. Her parents are ridiculous also.



Agree, agree, agree, agree.


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## EMH1701 (Jun 13, 2013)

This kind of thing I find annoying. They gave out the rules. She chose to try and skirt them. The school officials said no, the rules also apply to you. Then she goes to the press.

I do whatever I have to in order to meet my company's dress code so I do not get fired. If that means wearing a camisole under a top, then I wear it, or I wear a different top. (Polo shirts seem to be the norm at my company. Yes, people dress in boring ways at corporations.) I do not understand why some people think the rules do not apply to them. 

Yes, my company's dress code says that women should not show cleavage, so I don't. Although ironically, the day I interviewed for my current job, the HR lady was wearing a tank top that showed a ton of cleavage and I was wearing a navy suit. She was really dressed way too casually for that interview. The irony made me try very hard not to laugh and they probably thought I was just smiling because I was being happy.

The girl in the news article could have easily found a cute lace camisole at Lane Bryant or wherever that did not show her cleavage. They don't cost more than $20. If you are spending several hundred dollars on a prom dress, you probably also have money for the accessories to go with the prom dress. Otherwise she probably could have found one on eBay or at a thrift store or Walmart too if she was hard up for cash. Sorry but I do not have a lot of empathy for people who know the rules and choose not to follow them because they think the rules do not apply to them.


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## bigmac (Jun 13, 2013)

fat9276 said:


> Dress code rules such as this, found in schools, business offices, etc. are in place due to liability issues. To avoid or lessen chances of harassment and/or unwanted attention (be it sexual or other).



I'm going to have to disagree -- I can't see any situation wherein cleavage would create a valid cause of action.

IMHO its just another example of Americans being prudish, uptight, and hypocritical.


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## bigmac (Jun 13, 2013)

EMH1701 said:


> This kind of thing I find annoying. They gave out the rules. She chose to try and skirt them. The school officials said no, the rules also apply to you. Then she goes to the press.
> 
> I do whatever I have to in order to meet my company's dress code so I do not get fired. If that means wearing a camisole under a top, then I wear it, or I wear a different top. (Polo shirts seem to be the norm at my company. Yes, people dress in boring ways at corporations.) * I do not understand why some people think the rules do not apply to them.*
> 
> ...



Stupid rules are meant to be broken.


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## Dromond (Jun 13, 2013)

Are you sure you're a lawyer?


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## AuntHen (Jun 13, 2013)

bigmac said:


> I'm going to have to disagree -- I can't see any situation wherein cleavage would create a valid cause of action.
> 
> IMHO its just another example of Americans being prudish, uptight, and hypocritical.



Hmm, that's interesting considering a woman can be catcalled or whistled at just walking down the street in jeans and a t-shirt. You make it sound as though no man can possibly be sexually excited by the site of woman's body at all, let alone something that is "peek-a-booing" out the top. You put a bunch of hormonal teenagers and possibly some people with self control issues into the pot and what do you think? I mean, let's be realistic. 

And as people love to body shame or "slut shame" (as some on here are saying), do you not think some catty girls could bully or harass a girl for what she wears?

Other countries actually sometimes have even more strict dress codes for schools and business. The UK and Japan I can say for sure. Some of them require the kids to wear very modest uniforms in PUBLIC schools, so it's not just in America.


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## Deven (Jun 13, 2013)

bigmac said:


> I'm going to have to disagree -- I can't see any situation wherein cleavage would create a valid cause of action.
> 
> IMHO its just another example of Americans being prudish, uptight, and hypocritical.



Why, yes, a _formal_ affair is the proper place for this, right?


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## tonynyc (Jun 13, 2013)

bigmac said:


> Stupid rules are meant to be broken.





Dromond said:


> Are you sure you're a lawyer?



He's the real deal - not the "fake" type filled with "Hyde park fillers"!!!!...


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## tonynyc (Jun 13, 2013)

EMH1701 said:


> This kind of thing I find annoying. They gave out the rules. She chose to try and skirt them. The school officials said no, the rules also apply to you. Then she goes to the press.
> 
> I do whatever I have to in order to meet my company's dress code so I do not get fired. If that means wearing a camisole under a top, then I wear it, or I wear a different top. (Polo shirts seem to be the norm at my company. Yes, people dress in boring ways at corporations.) I do not understand why some people think the rules do not apply to them.
> 
> ...



*it's a plan... next stop Maury Povich...*


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## Big Beautiful Dreamer (Jun 14, 2013)

EMH1701 said:


> The girl in the news article could have easily found a cute lace camisole at Lane Bryant or wherever that did not show her cleavage. They don't cost more than $20. If you are spending several hundred dollars on a prom dress, you probably also have money for the accessories to go with the prom dress. Otherwise she probably could have found one on eBay or at a thrift store or Walmart too if she was hard up for cash. Sorry but I do not have a lot of empathy for people who know the rules and choose not to follow them because they think the rules do not apply to them.



Yes. This.

I shop mostly at Lane Bryant. A lot of the shirts they offer are made to be fairly low cut and show a fair amount of cleavage. I have to dress somewhat conservatively for my work. My solution is to have several Lane Bryant camisoles that cost $20 or less, and wear them under sheer or low-cut shirts.

OTOH, I wouldn't have wanted to do that with that special, fancy prom dress...

OTOH, no matter how much she loved the dress, it violated the dress code; therefore, it was against the rules.


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## EMH1701 (Jun 14, 2013)

bigmac said:


> Stupid rules are meant to be broken.



Sorry, not in a professional office environment with mixed genders. We are there to work and not get stared at by men. That is the sort of thing that is done at a bar, not in an office where a person has to maintain a professional reputation. Showing cleavage does not enhance a professional business reputation unless one is in the oldest line of work. 

Also not at a school. They made the rules. They chose to enforce them. I will not change my mind on this one. She could have bought a different dress easily, or as mentioned, found a camisole to comply with the rules. If you don't follow the rules, and they get enforced, then suck it up and take the punishment that is given without complaining about it. Life is not always fair.


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## loopytheone (Jun 14, 2013)

Big Beautiful Dreamer said:


> Yes. This.
> 
> I shop mostly at Lane Bryant. A lot of the shirts they offer are made to be fairly low cut and show a fair amount of cleavage. I have to dress somewhat conservatively for my work. My solution is to have several Lane Bryant camisoles that cost $20 or less, and wear them under sheer or low-cut shirts.
> 
> ...



Well you don't have to go with a full under cami, I've seen loads of adverts on tele and stuff for those modesty panels that you can just attach to the sides of the material under a low neckline to cover up but not have to wear anything bulky or awkward underneath. Not sure what size they go up to though.


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## bigmac (Jun 15, 2013)

Dromond said:


> Are you sure you're a lawyer?




Most of my work week consists of fighting the stupid application of stupid laws. 

Like this week's most stupid prosecution -- kid has medical marijuana card (allows him to grow up to 60 plants), he has six plants growing in the backyard next to grandmothers rose bushes, police show up and find the plants, kid's grandmother shows them the medical marijuana card, cops ask who takes care of the plants, grandmother says kid does, cops ask who waters the roses, grandmother says she does, cop asks if the marijuana plants get watered too when she waters the roses, grandmother says I guess so. Granny get's arrested for felony marijuana cultivation.


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## EMH1701 (Jun 15, 2013)

bigmac said:


> Most of my work week consists of fighting the stupid application of stupid laws.
> 
> Like this week's most stupid prosecution -- kid has medical marijuana card (allows him to grow up to 60 plants), he has six plants growing in the backyard next to grandmothers rose bushes, police show up and find the plants, kid's grandmother shows them the medical marijuana card, cops ask who takes care of the plants, grandmother says kid does, cops ask who waters the roses, grandmother says she does, cop asks if the marijuana plants get watered too when she waters the roses, grandmother says I guess so. Granny get's arrested for felony marijuana cultivation.



Well yeah, I agree that some laws are stupid. Especially the marijuana laws, because I think if people have cancer or whatever that they should legally be allowed to have it. I'm Libertarian for a reason.

However -- my firm belief is that one must vote for those who get rid of the stupid laws, and in the meantime, be prepared to deal with the aforementioned stupid laws and the consequences of breaking them.


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## LeoGibson (Jun 15, 2013)

I must admit that after reading this thread, I find it interesting that for the most part it is guys championing this girls choice of behavior and women, particularly well-endowed women, are cutting her zero slack for not adhering to the rules she knew and agreed upon in advance.


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## CastingPearls (Jun 16, 2013)

bigmac said:


> I'm going to have to disagree -- I can't see any situation wherein cleavage would create a valid cause of action.
> 
> IMHO its just another example of Americans being prudish, uptight, and hypocritical.


Here's a situation for you: 

I worked in a department which was composed of 98% women. One woman in particular, trying to score brownie points with the boss, made a point of bringing any appearance of my cleavage, to the female manager's attention. It didn't matter that what I was wearing was proper office attire and that said cleavage only showed when my elbows were on my desk and shoulders hunched in, and that I'd have to wear a turtleneck because it would come up to my chin. It also didn't matter that this woman's and my manager's breasts were considerably larger than mine. They made a game of it and I went to HR, tired of being called out on bullshit, because it could affect my performance review. 

The HR manager told me that it was sexual harassment, and that while I had a legal case, (which I hadn't even considered; I just wanted it to stop) she hoped that I'd give her an opportunity to speak with them. They were spoken to, required to attend a sexual harassment course, they apologized to me, and thankfully for me, there was no retaliation. 

In this case, although I wasn't breaking any rules, there was cause for legal liability, against them and the company.


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## bigmac (Jun 16, 2013)

CastingPearls said:


> Here's a situation for you:
> 
> I worked in a department which was composed of 98% women. One woman in particular, trying to score brownie points with the boss, made a point of bringing any appearance of my cleavage, to the female manager's attention. It didn't matter that what I was wearing was proper office attire and that said cleavage only showed when my elbows were on my desk and shoulders hunched in, and that I'd have to wear a turtleneck because it would come up to my chin. It also didn't matter that this woman's and my manager's breasts were considerably larger than mine. They made a game of it and I went to HR, tired of being called out on bullshit, because it could affect my performance review.
> 
> ...



I was thinking of situations were the busty female was accused of creating a hostile environment. Your situation is the inverse wherein the busty female is the victim of the hostility. In your situation -- as in any sexual harassment or sexual assault case -- the victim (and her breasts) are not the responsible party.


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