# I'm obese because..



## Emma (Apr 30, 2007)

I'm obese because I eat too much, I don't exercise at all and probably because I drink too much too. I'm so sick of both hearing and giving excuses for it. Most of us fat people are overweight because of our lifestyle. So everyone, tell me why you are fat! No more excuses, just the plain honest truth  I assure you, you'll feel better for it.

I also wanted to add. It's *my* fault I'm fat, I don't expect people to accomodate me for it. I expect to be treated like a human and not demonized for it, but it's my life choice.


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## DeniseW (Apr 30, 2007)

I'm fat because I eat too much also and have lived a sedentary lifestyle for most of my life. I don't drink anymore but did for most of the 80's...lol. I don't blame anyone really but do wish my mother could have rewarded us with something besides food, I remember after my father and mother got divorced and my father was being a dick about child support, my mother had to take a second job and felt guilty so she'd buy me and my brother each a quart of ice cream....that couldn't have been good...


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## Sandie_Zitkus (Apr 30, 2007)

I'm fat because:


I used to eat too much of the wrong foods
I have a disorder which causes me to hold fat (PCOS)
I have been sedentary all my life
My mother gave me her food issues and then some

HOWEVER:


I make no excuses
I live my life - my way
I accept who I am
I love who I am
If people don't like it they don't have to look


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## Rojodi (Apr 30, 2007)

I am fat because:


I love to cook
I love to eat
I hate to exercise
I am addicted to Pepsi and Dr Pepper
I refuse to join a gym

I make no apologies for myself, my health IS my business. And ladies, do NOT let anyone change you. Be yourself!!!:smitten:


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## BothGunsBlazing (Apr 30, 2007)

whatever, you know it was McDonalds, don't lie.

it's like crack.


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## Brenda (Apr 30, 2007)

I have eaten way too much in the past.

I sit on my ass much of the day and do no formal exercise.

I have severe PCOS (which in truth has been helped by not eating as much)


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## GWARrior (Apr 30, 2007)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> whatever, you know it was McDonalds, don't lie.
> 
> it's like crack.



BK all the way!


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## _broshe_ (Apr 30, 2007)

yeah, i'm over weight definatly due to my diet, I eat way too much. Although i do get a decent amount of exercise (I work cattle about 2-3 times a week), I just keep hovering at my 247 lb mark


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## Risible (Apr 30, 2007)

Well, I'm fat and flabulous at this time because I eat the wrong foods, though I only eat two medium size meals a day, and I don't exercise.

However, when I eat the right foods, 4-5 small meals a day, and exercise and walk for an hour a day, I'm fat and fit.

I can't blame my size only on my diet and exercise regimens, or lack thereof, for I know some of it is genetics.

Also, I used to have this insatiable appetite regardless of whether or not I was hungry, not so much anymore, but I'm willing to bet that thin people don't obsess about food the way fat people do. I don't know if that's physiological or psychological, but I don't believe naturally thin people have to deal with it, or maybe they can just override it.


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## Zandoz (Apr 30, 2007)

Genetics some 
Encouragement by my dad some (very sick around age 6...doc told him that I'd not have survived if I hadn't had some extra meat on my bones)
 A lot of the wrong foods
Going from very active to very inactive due to work and health issues
 And the biggie...screwed up metabolism from diets.


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## Ruby Ripples (Apr 30, 2007)

...I eat more calories than my body needs.


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## Arrhythmia (Apr 30, 2007)

I'm PHAT (Pretty, Hot And Thick) because I LOVE and EAT fatty and sugary foods. I also love my Jim Beam and Heinekens. Exercise and I divorced long ago, so we are not friends. These things I have chosen and have decided not to change at this time. I'm_ finally_, after all these years loving me for who I am.

I am also PHAT for reasons not of my own doing. I have Plantar Fasciitis in both feet. Makes walking or exercising for any length of time painful. No cartilidge on both knees also competes to be the most painful. And then of course there's my gene pool - Like most of my relatives, I was born on the fat end.


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## Isa (Apr 30, 2007)

BothGunsBlazing said:


> whatever, you know it was McDonalds, don't lie.
> 
> it's like crack.



That's the truth brother. McD, Jack, BK and all of the others. I'm addicted and admit it.


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## Isa (Apr 30, 2007)

Now to correctly reply to the thread.. 

I am fat due to eating too much of the wrong foods and being a major couch potato. I also have PCOS which doesn't help matters. 

In addition I place some blame on my mother. As a small child I was rail thin and did not eat very much. Since females in her family are all "healthy" she figured there must have been a medical reason to explain my problem. She took me to the doctor several times and he finally came up with "give her lots of vitamins it will jump start her appetite". She followed his advice and I haven't stopped eating yet.


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## saucywench (Apr 30, 2007)

Risible said:


> ...I'm willing to bet that thin people don't obsess about food the way fat people do.... I don't believe naturally thin people have to deal with it, or maybe they can just override it.


The thing is, not all fat people obsess about food. I don't. I would argue just the opposite: that "thin people" are the ones who are more likely to obsess about food. You did mention "naturally thin," Ris, but how can we tell among those we observe who are naturally thin and who are rabid and chronic dieters? 

Perhaps it is common for naturally thin people to eat little or have a high metabolism that enables them to process fuel efficiently. I will concede that that may be the case. I can't recall where I read it, but I seem to recall that somewhere recently I read that only approximately 10% of the population eat healthily (perhaps in adherence to nutritional guidelines) and exercise regularly. The other 90% of us could constitute people who are naturally thin who have crappy diets and don't exercise, people who are naturally fat who have crappy diets and don't exercise, the big bubble of folks in the middle who have crappy diets and don't exercise. Included within all of those groups would be the overwhelming number of people who are addicted to dieting. By virtue of the commonly accepted definition of that word (i.e. dieting to lose weight), that subgroup is obsessed about food. They spend an inordinate amount of time worrying what they can eat, how much, weighing it or portioning it out, checking labels, etc. If they can't have something on their diet, they obsess about it. They even dream about it. I have dieted before and I hated it because I hated having food on my mind all of the time. There are more important things to think about in life. Once I found size (or fat) acceptance I decided I was never going to do that again. That is not to say that I'm not concerned with eating healthier food, but I feel that (at least during my adult life) I have always eaten reasonably. I don't eat a lot of fast food or junk food. I rarely overeat (to the point of feeling stuffed.) However, I have no qualms (should I _want _to) about eating something considered "fattening"--life is too short. Yes, I may eat more than a dieter, or things that a dieter wouldn't have on their food plan, but that is my choice. If I choose to eat healthier than I already do (even more whole foods, even more fruit and vegetables, even more of the "superfoods", a reduction or elimination of foods that aren't good for my body, that will be my choice, also--a natural choice, and one (like any other aspect of my eating habits) that I won't obsess over. 

I think I have a very healthy attitude about food and eating, and I'm perfectly fine with that. Eating is simply a regular part of my day, and I don't give it any more thought than is due. Maybe I'm an atypical fat person in that sense, I don't know. I don't generally eat breakfast but I eat lunch and dinner, and sometimes something in between. I am naturally fat, fat is part of my identity, and I am unwilling to go to extreme measures to alter that.

As far as exercise goes, no, I do not get enough of it. I've always lived a fairly sedentary lifestyle, with regard to traditional exercise. Yes, I _should_, but I'm not going to beat myself up about it. If I do develop some sort of exercise routine, that'll be great, I know it will make me feel better. But, again, it's not something I'm going to obsess about.


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## Red (Apr 30, 2007)

I like sandwiches.


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## Friday (Apr 30, 2007)

Bad choices. Fry it and salt it and I'll it eat, especially if you bread or batter it first.


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## toni (Apr 30, 2007)

Here, Here Em. I am glad someone was bold enough to say it!

I am obese because I make very poor food choices. I never eat a vegetable! I love everything that is bad. Chinese take out is a food group for me. I am as lazy as can be. If it is not fun I don't want to do it. 20 minutes of exercise feels like 20 years to me. I base my gym memberships according to pool/hot tub facilities.


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 30, 2007)

I am fat because...

wait a second...

*runs to mirror...stars for a half an hour*

hmmmmm

*keeps staring*

nope...I got nothin'


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## Zoom (Apr 30, 2007)

Everybody here is saying they are making "poor" food choices.

Just because some medical "experts" (i.e. pushy people with book deals and letters after their names) say one type of food is bad and another is good, do we _have_ to go along with them?

Remember these are the same people who say being fat is _always_ a death sentence.

I also don't like the term "junk food". *I* say it is NOT JUNK. I prefer "tasty" or "entertainment" food.


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## QtPatooti (Apr 30, 2007)

That I might be fat at all, is genetics. I was born fat. That I am as fat as I am, is my own fault. Diets are my earliest memory. At this point, I have "I dont care - itis" and just eat what I want. I have had it with worrying about it crying about it not sleeping over it. Those days are over.


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## bigsexy920 (Apr 30, 2007)

I eat too much and I don't exercise enough.


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## Miss Vickie (Apr 30, 2007)

Lots of reasons. 


Genetics (even before WLS I was the thinnest member of my family). 
Crazy stupid low calorie chronic dieting as a teen and young adult, interspersed with the occasional binge. 
Overeating for my own needs, which were decreased due to the aforementioned crazy dieting.
Lack of exercise from an autoimmune disease (though I was fat before I got it, I was less fat) and also lack of exercise in my early to mid 20's. As a mom of young children I focused on their needs to the detriment of my own.
Metabolic syndrome (not really PCOS since I had regular periods) and the resultant hyperinsulinemia.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Apr 30, 2007)

I am fat because in Oklahoma if it isn't deep fried it isn't worth eating! 

I love food,cookies,chips,candy,soda,gravy,fried potatoes,bread,you name it and I have eaten it..I love food..I do exercise but not enough to burn what I put in my mouth...


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## EJKorvette (Apr 30, 2007)

Eat too much
Exercise too little.

However when I am honest with myself, and stay out of the calorie cube at weekday work on Fattening Fridays, and stay out of bars, and don't bake anything, and don't special order Parmigiano-Reggiano cheese, and work my commercial weight loss program, I lose weight.

EJKorvette


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## supersoup (Apr 30, 2007)

fat=awesome
awesome=soup

therefore, i am fat because i am awesome.

really though, i have no idea. i like food, but i'm ridiculously active. whatever.


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## Arrhythmia (May 1, 2007)

Zoom said:


> Everybody here is saying they are making "poor" food choices.


Not everyone is saying this.


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## ScreamingChicken (May 1, 2007)

-Genetics
-I find fruits and vegatables to be against my religion 
-Seizure meds that I have been on for almost 11 years
-Never losing the teenager sized appetite, only worsened by the meds


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## BigBeautifulMe (May 1, 2007)

I have to admit, this thread makes me a little...angry. Honestly, we hear more and more every day about alternate causes of obesity, and yet everyone outside of our community still thinks "If fat people were honest, they'd fess up that most of them are just fat because they don't have willpower." It angers me to find this attitude in our community as well. I think those gaining intentionally are in the minority of fat people. Often, those with large appetites have large appetites for other reasons - medicines, medical conditions, and hormone imbalances caused by medical conditions and/or dieting. We still don't understand exactly how all these things come together to make a fat person - but we're learning more every day. And "let's blame ourselves for being fat" just doesn't seem constructive to me.

My two cents.

Why am I fat? Sleep apnea, which I have had from birth, and years of dieting (and forced starvation periods as a child).


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## Canonista (May 1, 2007)

I like unhealthy food and lots of it. Deep fried is a food group, isn't it?


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## ClashCityRocker (May 1, 2007)

supersoup said:


> fat=awesome
> awesome=soup
> QUOTE]
> 
> you really are awesome.


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## Jon Blaze (May 1, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> I have to admit, this thread makes me a little...angry. Honestly, we hear more and more every day about alternate causes of obesity, and yet everyone outside of our community still thinks "If fat people were honest, they'd fess up that most of them are just fat because they don't have willpower." It angers me to find this attitude in our community as well. I think those gaining intentionally are in the minority of fat people. Often, those with large appetites have large appetites for other reasons - medicines, medical conditions, and hormone imbalances caused by medical conditions and/or dieting. We still don't understand exactly how all these things come together to make a fat person - but we're learning more every day. And "let's blame ourselves for being fat" just doesn't seem constructive to me.
> 
> My two cents.
> 
> Why am I fat? Sleep apnea, which I have had from birth, and years of dieting (and forced starvation periods as a child).




I agree somewhat. I saw this thread, and I was originally thinking "Christ. This is almost a victory for weight bigots."
Most people that are fat get the way they are due to a manifestation of genetics and lifestyle (Based on what researchers would say). Though I can't say how much weighs more really. I think it depends on the person:

If you eat fatty foods, but you have PCOS, genetic disposition to having added weight, you've dieted in the past that has caused lowered metabolism, sleep apnea, and a boatload of other disorders that can affect your waistline, I wouldn't consider lifestyle to have as much effect as science and society would hope it to be. Diet and Exercise (Two elements of lifestyle that *can *affect a person's waistline) have some strength, but many other things such as sleep and stress level can have their effect too.

Maybe it the majority of these posts didn't start with something synonymous with "I have a poor diet, and I don't exercise," or if everyone posted expressing what they consider to have a stronger effect (i.e. "I eat poorly, but PCOS has affected my metabolism dramatically."), it might be better.

My eating habits are "Acceptable," I exercise pretty well, but if I didn't get the DNA card that disposes me to being thin and lean, I would probably be heavier. I have both Overweight/Obese people in my family, as well as thin people. It's gotten to the point where the builds that my siblings and cousins are given almost came at random:

My sister is short, curvy, and flexible.
My Brother is short, muscular, but inflexible.
I am tall, lean, and flexible. 

It takes guts to comment the way you did BBM. I applaud you for expressing your opinion.


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## AnnMarie (May 1, 2007)

Reasons (NOT excuses, I'm quite sure these are my contributing factors, in order of contribution): 
Genetics
Lack of exercise that would burn calories
Not eating consistently - generally favoring a 1-2 meal a day system, and eating later than I should be (dinner is usually around 9-10pm)
Some level of unhealthy eating, but not fast food often - and portion sizes (the typical American issue of exaggerated portions)
Past diets that caused more gain - I'm positive my weight would have leveled lower if not for assaulting what little metabolism I had with periods of dieting and losing and gaining
On the issue of this thread being a bad message, I disagree. I think a lot of people here have said they make unhealthy/improper food choices, which is a problem for almost every single person I know - thin or fat. I've only seen a few people here who are saying they actually eat too much all the time, which is what we're more often accused of. 

Furthermore, I think the answers here include things that fat bigots never even bother to consider - like the dieting damage that was done when many of us were growing up. The people who've answered here have answered for themselves - not for ALL fat people. The mentions of PCOS are another aspect that many bigots don't understand, or the mention of apnea being a contributing factor, etc. 

I think it's an interesting thread, and certainly some interesting answers at the reasons for the root of why some of us are fat, or why some of us remain fat. Fat bigots may not believe in genetic causes, and that's fine, but as many here have said... you know when it's true, all you have to do is look around at a family gathering. The builds and looks are all the same, it's not just about Twinkies and sofa surfing.


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## StrawberryShortcake (May 1, 2007)

CurvyEm said:


> I'm obese because I eat too much, I don't exercise at all and probably because I drink too much too. I'm so sick of both hearing and giving excuses for it. Most of us fat people are overweight because of our lifestyle. So everyone, tell me why you are fat! No more excuses, just the plain honest truth  I assure you, you'll feel better for it.
> 
> I also wanted to add. It's *my* fault I'm fat, I don't expect people to accomodate me for it. I expect to be treated like a human and not demonized for it, but it's my life choice.



Well I for one am fat because being fat is hot damn SEXXXAY! 223 repping right hurrrrr!


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## Friday (May 1, 2007)

I am sorry that anyone is offended by the fact that I think I eat too much but you know what? I know me, you don't. To be told that I am somehow disrespecting myself or others because you find my reality makes you uncomfortable makes me angry. I can't blame genetics. I didn't start gaining weight until I was 25. I never had kids, can't blame it on that. I even had to fight to keep weight on when I was a teen, although I ate like a horse I ate a lot better/healthier when my Mom was buying the groceries. So, since I know that my weight gain coincided with a big change in my eating habits and lifestyle I think I'm qualified to know what the basic cause of my weight is/was.

And you know what? I lied. I'm not sorry. I don't owe anyone an apology. Not for getting fat, being fat, losing weight or not losing weight. And most certainly not for my honest opinion on anything that concerns ME.


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## BigBeautifulMe (May 1, 2007)

Friday, I think that you misunderstood what I was saying. Your eating and lifestyle habits changed, fine. But was that from "a lack of willpower" or a "personality flaw," or might there have been another cause? All I'm saying is that even when people DO gain weight as a result of "overeating," their appetite is not something society (or we as a community) should blame people for, as there is often a very good medical or physiological reason for that appetite to begin with. (Personally, I don't think we should place blame on ANYONE regardless of what the cause of their weight is, whether it's a "personality flaw" as society seems to believe, or not. ) A thread asking people to take the blame for their own size, which is what this one feels like to me, just seems extremely out of place to me in this community.


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## Emma (May 1, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> A thread asking people to take the blame for their own size, which is what this one feels like to me, just seems extremely out of place to me in this community.



Not really. At least I don't think so. As most people on this thread have said most of us are fat because we make the wrong food choices or exercise. Not all, but most. Whats wrong with admitting it? It's the truth and I think it's about time people stood up and said "look I like to eat, I don't like to exercise, I'm big... So what?" rather than making excuses for their size.


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## BigBeautifulMe (May 1, 2007)

I suppose the fact that I spent 26 years of my life feeling the same way ("I like to eat lots of things that are bad for me, and don't like to exercise"), and facing decades of blame and humiliation for it, and then finding an actual medical reason for that (sleep apnea) has given me a different perspective on things. 

I think saying that "most people" are fat because they just like to eat is inaccurate and far too narrowly-focused a point of view, and that encouraging people to "admit it" and not "make excuses" is doing the same thing - placing stigma and blame on that act, despite your avowed rebellion against that stigma.


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## Friday (May 1, 2007)

> All I'm saying is that even when people DO gain weight as a result of "overeating," their appetite is not something society (or we as a community) should blame people for, as there is often a very good medical or physiological reason for that appetite to begin with.



Except BBM, as I already pointed out you can't make those kind of judgment calls on me because you don't know me. I know that I started gaining when my diet went to shit, I starting consuming way too much alcohol and getting to work was the most exercise I got in a day. I'm not saying that I'm a bad person for it, but kidding myself about where it came from isn't going to change anything for better or worse. 'Blame' never entered into it in my mind.

What I don't understand is why what *I* think about why *I* gained weight is something you would feel it necessary to have an opinion about much less try to tell me that I'm not entitled to have that opinion or am somehow inflicting harm on others by having it. If you express an opinion about yourself, are you not going to be upset if I question not only it's validity but your right to even have that opinion?


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## Friday (May 1, 2007)

I'm not encouraging anyone to do anything. I answered a question about myself. Period.

I had a friend who had the same problem with sleep apnea and weight gain. Apnea is a very dangerous thing. I hope you are getting treatment as it would be best for the world if you stick around for a long time.


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## Ample Pie (May 1, 2007)

as a gift from god, delivered by fairies. chocolate covered fairies.


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## Friday (May 1, 2007)

Eating fairies!? Green Eyed Fairy is gonna be on you, chocolate covered or not.


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## Ample Pie (May 1, 2007)

Friday said:


> Eating fairies!? Green Eyed Fairy is gonna be on you, chocolate covered or not.


I didn't say I ate the fairies lol...


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## Krissy12 (May 1, 2007)

I'm fat because I abhor exercise, or anything that looks like it. I don't eat alot, but I *do* have the occasional binge. I'm not a big fast food eater and I love my veggies, but I'll tear up a box of Girl Scout cookies.
Am I ashamed of this? NO
And I don't have any medical conditions that make me fat.

I don't think taking responsibilty for *my* fatness is saying that every big person is fat for the reasons that I am.


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## BigBeautifulMe (May 1, 2007)

Friday said:


> I'm not encouraging anyone to do anything. I answered a question about myself. Period.
> 
> I had a friend who had the same problem with sleep apnea and weight gain. Apnea is a very dangerous thing. I hope you are getting treatment as it would be best for the world if you stick around for a long time.


The comment you're responding to here was directed at CurvyEm, Friday. Sorry I didn't make that clear. 

And I am absolutely getting treatment. I have been on CPAP and 100% compliant since they day I got the machine (this is despite numerous errors on my doctors part that resulted in me not feeling rested for more than a year and a half after starting treatment).


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## BigBeautifulMe (May 1, 2007)

Friday, I was not judging anyone at all, least of all you. I said that I truly believe that MOST fat people have secondary reasons of some sort behind their appetites. I used the word most for a reason - obviously, this will not apply to everyone. And if it doesn't to you, that's great. I don't understand why you think I'm juding you at all. I'm advocating AGAINST judging people because of their weight gain. 

I'm not questioning anyone's right to have an opinion. What I'm questioning is the internalized blame that some of us as fat women have taken on. Sometimes, that internalized blame is so strong and has been around so long that it's tough to even see. 

I never said people saying "I'm fat because I eat a lot" offended me (as you said in your first response to me). I said that I was offended by the expression of the common stereotype "If fat people were honest, they'd fess up that most of them are just fat because they don't have willpower" here in this venue. Additionally, I said a thread focused on this did not seem productive to me.


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## babyjeep21 (May 1, 2007)

Wait a minute... I'm fat? :blink:


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## TCUBOB (May 1, 2007)

I am obese for at least the following reasons (in no particular order):

1. genetics - yes, being overweight certainly runs in my father's side of the family.
2. physical medical reasons - yes, thyroid problems run in my mother's side of the family. She and one sister have underactive thyroids; her other sister, overactive. Not so long ago, I was finally diagnosed with type II, hypothyroidism and ADHD; it's made a world of difference for many facets of my life to get these conditions treated properly.
3. mental medical reasons - I suffered from depression for many, many years. Still do, to some extent. But I'm having great success getting it treated, and that's allowed me to really be conscious of how I used food in general, and junk food in particular, to act as a substitute for happiness. In the end, however, food does not equal love or happiness. Love and happiness equals love and happiness, and there is no substitute. Not even at the bottom of a pint of Ben and Jerry's Chubby Hubby.
4. my behaviors/choices - I would guess that this is the prevailing factor. It's also the one I have the most control over. I didn't exercise; I made poor food choices; I ate too much food. All of these decision led me to be obese at 375; reversing these decisions, in combination with getting treatment for the medical factors, has led me to now be under 300. Do I still need to lose additional weight? Yes. Do I still want to lose additional weight? Yes. Am I still going to lose additional weight? I don't know. I'm going to keep working out and exercising and eating better.

Here's what I don't do, that many people don't understand: I don't get on the scale constantly (that drives people bananas when they see that I've lost weight - I should do a whole separate post on that), I don't obsess about my weight and I don't have a goal weigh that I'm shooting for. I want to weight what I end up weighing because that's where I should be, not because it's where some chart or doctor or stranger or my family or friends think it should be. Just like it was my decision to be fat, it's my decision to be less fat. If that means skinny, so be it. If that means chubby or fat or whatever, so be it. If it means I don't lose another pound, so be it. But it will be MY decision, and it will be primarily (3 out of 4) because of MY choices. I OWN IT.

As an aside, I also hate it when people come up to me and either say "Are you losing weight" or "You've lost weight" because it almost always comes with an undercurrent of "You're not ok right now" or "You were not ok as you were." YES I WAS. YOU just couldn't accept me there. So I'm chosing A) not to accept you right here, right now (at least temporarily) and B) I'm chosing not to accept your judgement. Then I tell them I'm not losing weight. It drives them bonkers, especially because they can't figure out why someone would not be honest about losing weight. I mean, doesn't everyone want to not be fat? 

Flames/Props can be delivered to:

Bob. You know where to find me.


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## TallFatSue (May 1, 2007)

I'm obese because I can either starve myself for the rest of my days and lose weight, or I can lead a happy, fulfilling and productive life. I cannot possibly do both. Considering how structured my life can be as an office manager, my fat sometimes seems like a force of nature which defies control, and I reallllly enjoy that. 

I definitely love to eat. Very little fast food or junk, but instead I eat good, well-balanced *large* meals. A really good dinner gives me a buzz which can be erotic. Methinks I have more fun as a fat women than the average thin woman.

My mother also had something to do with my size when I was a girl. The more she nagged about my weight, the more I ate "just to show her". In my rebellious youth, my fat became a very visible symbol of my independence. My mother was also the Queen of Mixed Messages like "lose the weight but clean your plate." Damned if I ate, damned if I didn't, so I ate it! I also had 2 grandmothers who were outstanding bakers, and each tried to spoil me more than the other with their goodies. :eat2:

And in a more general sense, I think obesity has made me a better person because it helped teach me what is and is not truly important in life, and also how to think creatively. If obesity is my worst problem in life, then I am one lucky woman.


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## LoveBHMS (May 1, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Friday, I think that you misunderstood what I was saying. Your eating and lifestyle habits changed, fine. But was that from "a lack of willpower" or a "personality flaw," or might there have been another cause? All I'm saying is that even when people DO gain weight as a result of "overeating," their appetite is not something society (or we as a community) should blame people for, as there is often a very good medical or physiological reason for that appetite to begin with. (Personally, I don't think we should place blame on ANYONE regardless of what the cause of their weight is, whether it's a "personality flaw" as society seems to believe, or not. ) A thread asking people to take the blame for their own size, which is what this one feels like to me, just seems extremely out of place to me in this community.



If Friday accepts herself, *why* should she need to fret over why she looks the way she does? It is almost as if you are insisting she find some other reason for her size that would make you more comfortable or that would allow others to not react negatively towards her size.

There are in fact some people that flat out are fat because they make poor food choices. It sounds as if you are threatened by this. You continue to use the word "blame" as if making a simple connection between what you eat and how much you weight is a threat to size acceptance. Using the words "blame" and "fault" are just inflammatory. But everyone who answered this post did so by choice and offered honest assesments of their own bodies and choices.

Some people are in fact fat due to lifestyle choices. Maybe you should look at WHY openly stating this bothers you. It's not all just "blame and fault" but simple cause and effect.

As John Blaze said, there are numerous factors why people look how they do, and two of those factors are food and activity choices. PCOS, thyroid problems, and insulin problems all contribute to size, but so do what you choose to eat and if you choose to exercise. Every adult has the right to make these choices for him or herself and be respected for them.


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## Tracyarts (May 1, 2007)

Quite simply because I consume more calories than my body needs to function.

The why's behind that *why* are not as clear cut. I became more sedentary, did not adjust my eating habits to accomodate the reduction in physical activity, gained some weight, developed pain in my back and weight-bearing lower body joints. Became even more sedentary, still did not adjust my eating habits accordingly, gained even more weight, developed more intense chronic pain in weight-bearing parts of my body. Etc, and onward until my mobility was compromised. And now, being so very sedentary as I am due to the severe chronic pain issues in all parts of my body that bear the brunt of my weight, I have a VERY narrow margin of error between "adequate and healthy nourishment" and "overconsumption". 

Not a judgement call, just facts.
Tracy


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## BigBeautifulMe (May 1, 2007)

LoveBHMs, I understand that I can be verbose, but taking the time to understand what I have written before you respond to it negatively would be something I would very much appreciate.



LoveBHMS said:


> If Friday accepts herself, *why* should she need to fret over why she looks the way she does? It is almost as if you are insisting she find some other reason for her size that would make you more comfortable or that would allow others to not react negatively towards her size.



I NEVER said anything like this, nor would I. If you think I have, please show me where you think you saw this so that I can explain what I have written to you. 



> There are in fact some people that flat out are fat because they make poor food choices.



Please show me where I said there were NO people who are fat because of lifestyle choices. You can't, as I didn't say it.



> It sounds as if you are threatened by this. You continue to use the word "blame" as if making a simple connection between what you eat and how much you weight is a threat to size acceptance. Using the words "blame" and "fault" are just inflammatory.



I used the words "blame" and "fault" solely in response to the usage of words like "admit" and "making excuses" which, by their very nature, convey blame and fault. 



> But everyone who answered this post did so by choice and offered honest assesments of their own bodies and choices.



I never said otherwise. 



> Some people are in fact fat due to lifestyle choices. Maybe you should look at WHY openly stating this bothers you. It's not all just "blame and fault" but simple cause and effect.


 Again, I never said NO ONE was fat due to lifestyle choices. Stating that SOME people are fat due to lifestyle choices is true, and so, of course, does not bother me. It is society's belief that blame and fault are to be assigned to lifestyle choice, and it is the ridiculousness of this that I am arguing. And LoveBHMs, if you haven't figured out by now from reading these boards that weight is more than just calories in minutes calories out, then I doubt anything I say is really going to get past what you think is common sense.




> As John Blaze said, there are numerous factors why people look how they do, and two of those factors are food and activity choices. PCOS, thyroid problems, and insulin problems all contribute to size, but so do what you choose to eat and if you choose to exercise. Every adult has the right to make these choices for him or herself and be respected for them.



Please show me where I ever said anything different. I did not. Of course what you eat and if you choose to exercise are your choice (well, unless an injury prevents exercise, or poverty prevents the purchase of healthy foods). All I'm saying is that for many people, there are often other factors that influence how you make that choice. 

If you'd like references proving that physiological/health issues can influence what you eat, how much you eat, and if/how often you exercise, please let me know. Or better yet, find them yourself by reading the health articles posted on the main forum.


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## LoveBHMS (May 1, 2007)

Friday's comment:



> So, since I know that my weight gain coincided with a big change in my eating habits and lifestyle I think I'm qualified to know what the basic cause of my weight is/was



Your comment:



> Your eating and lifestyle habits changed, fine. But was that from "a lack of willpower" or a "personality flaw," or might there have been another cause?



Friday gave her reasons for her size with full knowlege of her body and lifestyle, and *you asked her* if there was another cause.

Word choice, like food choice, is up to the individual. Neither you nor I is inside the mind of anyone else that posts here. How they feel about their size, why they make choices they make, and how they feel about them really seemed to be the point of this thread. Many posters said "I'm fat because I like junk food AND too bad if others don't like how I look." Others said they knew the reasons for their size and either did or did not want to change it.

The fact that somebody disagrees with you does not mean they don't understand what you wrote. Continually insisting they don't, and before you ask where you did that, you did it here:



> taking the time to understand what I have written before you respond to it negatively would be something I would very much appreciate.



And in closing, Curvy Em originated this thread and others chose to participate. You said:



> I have to admit, this thread makes me a little...angry. Honestly, we hear more and more every day about alternate causes of obesity, and yet everyone outside of our community still thinks "If fat people were honest, they'd fess up that most of them are just fat because they don't have willpower." It angers me to find this attitude in our community as well.



This is not the same thing as "Em had no right to make this thread" but it comes very close.


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## butch (May 1, 2007)

I'm not obese. I'm FAT. No, wait, I'm really really FAT.

Why is that? There are a million different reasons why I could be fat, but for me, it doesn't matter one way or the other why I'm fat. I just am, I always have been, and I suspect I always will be. 

The whys and the hows of my fat aren't too important, since they don't change the fact that I am fat, and that I don't see anything wrong with being fat, regardless of how I have come to be fat. 

But I must say, I love supersoup's equation! Fat=awesome, yes! Tried to rep you for that, but I couldn't, supersoup.


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## BigBeautifulMe (May 1, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> Friday's comment:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


That was a rhetorical question. I was demonstrating the principle I was exploring. Next time I'll make sure to put "RQ" in front of any rhetorical questions I ask.  



> Word choice, like food choice, is up to the individual.



Of course it is. But that doesn't mean that the meaning behind the words cannot be examined.



> Neither you nor I is inside the mind of anyone else that posts here. How they feel about their size, why they make choices they make, and how they feel about them really seemed to be the point of this thread. Many posters said "I'm fat because I like junk food AND too bad if others don't like how I look." Others said they knew the reasons for their size and either did or did not want to change it.



Again, I have absolutely no problem with people posting what they want to, saying what they want to, and feeling how they want to. Why would I? All I'm doing is examining what seems to me to be an attitude of blaming people for lifestyle choices that has carried over from the anti-fat community, that seems to be present even in the basic concept of this thread. If we can't examine attitudes toward fat here at Dims, then where? 



> The fact that somebody disagrees with you does not mean they don't understand what you wrote. Continually insisting they don't, and before you ask where you did that, you did it here:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...



No, of course it doesn't, but when someone isn't quite getting what I say, I try to clarify, and/or let them know they aren't getting it. That was the case here. And I would not argue that I said that. I absolutely did, and I stand behind it.



> And in closing, Curvy Em originated this thread and others chose to participate. You said:
> 
> 
> ```
> ...



So, everyone has a right to feel the way they feel, except for me? I'm not allowed to be angry or upset? And please explain how me saying I don't like the thought that people's characters should be questioned based solely on their weight says to you that "Em had no right to make this thread." I would never, ever say that. Of course she has a right to post it - just as I have a right to disagree with it, question it, and post my own responses to it - which is exactly what I'm doing.


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## Ned Sonntag (May 1, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> That was a rhetorical question. I was demonstrating the principle I was exploring. Next time I'll make sure to put "RQ" in front of any rhetorical questions I ask.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Big Beautiful Me is aptly eponymous!


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (May 1, 2007)

I eat fairly healthy. I tend to eat less healthy when I have other people around but my typical day is this:

*Half a bowl of bran flakes with 2 slicesd strawberries and a banana with some skim milk

2 ham and cheese sandwiches (made with WW bread, each slice has 45 cals) and the cheese is lite. A 1/3 baggie of dorritos, an apple and a banana

ice lollie (popcycle) or some fruit

Dinner is usually a half cup of rice of some description (white, spanish, onion and mushroom) made from scratch with no butter or oils. And lots of mixed veg. And for meat it is usually Chicken or Turkey

Dessert is usually another ice lollie, but sometimes we do without.*

My guilty pleasure is Starbucks Caramel Lite Frappachinos....I get 1 a week.

This post is funny...in a irritating way. I believe I will always be fat. I do not believe I will always be THIS fat....but I could never eat again and my weight would settle in the high 200's low 300's.

I went to the Dr today...to discuss my bloodwork I had done to check everything out. My bloodwork *proves* my diet is not made up of fast food and ice cream, though I do like those things as do lots of thin people.

Instead, I was told everything was great and the only things that were outta whack was due to PCOS 100%. My hormones are outta whack as are my triglycerides which is a part of cholesterol, but they aren't over the top...they are in line with a classic case of PCOS. And my sugars were perfect....I'm insulin resistant but no where near diabeties Thank GOD! So if my diet was out of control I would have higher cholesterol and my sugars would be less stable esp as a person with PCOS...but they are not. I am healthy. Very healthy. 

Now for the reasons I will never be thin. My family tree....we are Oak Trees not Pine trees. I can look back through my family history and there are fat people...huge fat people on all sides. I had a great aunt who was well over 500 on my dads side...and on my moms I had a great aunt who was well over 400....those were the big ones...everyone else landed in the 200's and 300's.

I will take responsiblity for the gain from 400 to 565 or whatever it was. It as irresponsible eating combined with an eating disorder that I am gaining control over. I gained that weight just after high school...it was mostly due to eating lots of fast food. I was in charge of myself for the first time ever...and if I wanted junk, I ate junk. I do not eat like that anymore.

As far as being 'fat' according to the standard definition (ie-not thin)...it is not my fault what so ever. I will be fat no matter what I do. I have always been fat and I have baby pictures to prove it.

This thread offends me somewhat because I feel like it is insinuated that I could be thin if I wanted to be. I wish that was the case. I have spent my whole life sad and bitter than I could not get skinny. I refuse to do that anymore. *This thread is rubbish.* Some people chose to be fat and some people just _are_ fat.

I am me. I have always been fat. I have a health condition that keeps me fat and makes it super easy to get fatter. I have issues with food and food and love/sex that make me struggle sometimes. BUT, I have my head on straight now...and I like myself...as I am....for who I am...no matter what size I was, am now or will be. My fat will no longer define me. I am a fat woman. Not a woman of fat.


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## Happy FA (May 1, 2007)

Why I'm fat is probably a multifaceted result of me being me.

1. Food was love at home and my mother was always on a diet so I ate a lot as a very athletically active child and overate by sneaking food when I wanted more than she "allowed".

2. Diets when my weight got higher than the parental units and I wanted(Weight Watchers twice) which were very short term successful and resulted in some rebound upward movement of my setpoint, I believe.

3. I Love to eat both good food and food that's good for you and also love eating as an activity more than an obligation to meet some nutritional requirements.

4. After school ended and I settled into a sedentary desk job my physical activity decreased but it took a while to adjust my eating to the new needs of my body.

5. Sleep apnea undiagnosed for a bunch of years clearly added about 100 pounds, only about 50 of which came off after CPAP treated it completely.

6 My body strenuously fights any efforts to reduce its size below about 345 pounds.

7. Fat is what I am, but it is only part of what I am. I'm a smart, active, loving, creative, curious, pleasant(occasionally), funny, parental, professional, fat man. 

8. I've learned that the path that I've followed to reach the place I am is one that was trod by my steps alone. I can blame, praise, or ignore what others, including family members and others along the way have done for, to or about me, but ultimately responsibility for where I am and how I got here is mine alone.

9. I don't generalize on how other people got to where they are and why they're fat or not. And, apart from my kids, who I have tried to instill healthy attitudes about food and weight in, I try not to offer advice to others unless they ask for it and even then cautiously and in a non-judgmental fashion.

10. As a scientist by training and an avid observer of the world around me I have never ceased to be amazed at how clueless most people are about weight distribution throughout the population. If one looks at people's height, shoe sizes, glove sizes, relative proportion of legs to total height, relative proportion of arm length to total height and just about any other physical dimension, one sees that these are fairly normally distributed(distributed along a normal or bell curve) throughout the population. Why would one assume that weight would not be similarly distributed. Thus, I look around and I consider it fairly logical that the largest group of people would be distributed about some mean weight value with fewer people at either end of the curve(very thin or very fat). Yet society and most people would insist that this is not normal and that both ends should be adjusted so the people who would normally fit in these regions of the normal distribution should move to the middle. No one suggests that the very tall should be shrunk or chopped down to size or the very short stretched on the rack to add more inches. Sorry for the rant. The point is that I believe that I would be a fat person regardless of what I did. While I might not weigh around 350 I would be shocked if I was not still a fat man with a big belly to match my big smile.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (May 1, 2007)

supersoup said:


> fat=awesome
> awesome=soup
> 
> therefore, i am fat because i am awesome.
> ...



It IS your fault you're awesome.


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## LoveBHMS (May 1, 2007)

> Again, I have absolutely no problem with people posting what they want to, saying what they want to, and feeling how they want to. Why would I? All I'm doing is examining what seems to me to be an attitude of blaming people for lifestyle choices that has carried over from the anti-fat community, that seems to be present even in the basic concept of this thread. If we can't examine attitudes toward fat here at Dims, then where?



You are questioning other people's attitudes towards _themselves._ When somebody says "I'm fat because I like junk food" and that is the end of their post, I don't see any need to examine or question it. It is likely you don't know anyone on this board better than they know themselves, and it's equally likely that others have done their own thinking, questioning, examining, and anything else necessary to get to their current mindset.



> No, of course it doesn't, but when someone isn't quite getting what I say, I try to clarify, and/or let them know they aren't getting it. That was the case here. And I would not argue that I said that. I absolutely did, and I stand behind it.



Ok, once again. I do understand what you're saying, and I disagree. Full stop. Apparently the only acceptable response to one of your posts is to say "Oh, yes. You are totally right. Everything you write is 100% accurate." And no, you've never _said_ those particular words but the sentiment is clear.

And the smarminess with the explanation of "rhetorical" doesn't have a place here. Not everyone bothered with the "what degrees do you have" thread but many of us are college graduates. Some from good colleges.


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## LillyBBBW (May 1, 2007)

And God said, "Let her be fat." And she was fat. And God saw the fat, that it was good. And God said, "Let no man nor woman nor beast; no diet nor famine nor slight of hand; no blight nor vigorous toil undo what My hands hath made." And it was so.

And then God spake unto her, "Go fourth with great joy for you are mine, dearly loved, purposefully designed and approved in my sight. Let your light shine and give thanks and I will bless your comings and your goings," saith the Lord. 

And it was so.


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## Ned Sonntag (May 1, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> You are questioning other people's attitudes towards _themselves._ When somebody says "I'm fat because I like junk food" and that is the end of their post, I don't see any need to examine or question it. It is likely you don't know anyone on this board better than they know themselves, and it's equally likely that others have done their own thinking, questioning, examining, and anything else necessary to get to their current mindset.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Care to tell us WHICH college? Or ANY personal info? No, just want to win arguments. Be sociable.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (May 1, 2007)

Bodies come in different forms, and some people have to bust their asses to be a size 20. I've known these folks. What's wrong with saying, "Yep, I'm going to be fat no matter what, but if I have to be fat, I'm satisfied with an additional six dress sizes because full fat salad dressing at dinner time and donuts for breakfast four times a week tastes good, and I might even throw in a pint of Haagen Daaz every now and again,"?

Being so fat you lose mobility is a medical issue. Just being really fat? Well, I don't think that qualifies as a medical condition. I think a MORE dreadful societal attitude is that being fat is a medical condition. Being fat has nothing to do with will power, as you said. My brother is a 260 lb. fat guy and he's ran a marathon. He could also probably drop a few lbs. if he gave up things he loves like cake and pie. Why should he, though? He's proactive about his health, and he knows in part why he's fat. Sometimes it isn't worth the extra effort to be "thin." Saying it isn't worth the effort doesn't make a person lazy, bad, or any other fat stereotype.



BigBeautifulMe said:


> I have to admit, this thread makes me a little...angry. Honestly, we hear more and more every day about alternate causes of obesity, and yet everyone outside of our community still thinks "If fat people were honest, they'd fess up that most of them are just fat because they don't have willpower." It angers me to find this attitude in our community as well. I think those gaining intentionally are in the minority of fat people. Often, those with large appetites have large appetites for other reasons - medicines, medical conditions, and hormone imbalances caused by medical conditions and/or dieting. We still don't understand exactly how all these things come together to make a fat person - but we're learning more every day. And "let's blame ourselves for being fat" just doesn't seem constructive to me.
> 
> My two cents.
> 
> Why am I fat? Sleep apnea, which I have had from birth, and years of dieting (and forced starvation periods as a child).


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## TCUBOB (May 1, 2007)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> It IS your fault you're awesome.



Both you AND soup are awesome. But I can't rep you, so I'm propping you in public.

Bob


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## LoveBHMS (May 1, 2007)

> I never said people saying "I'm fat because I eat a lot" offended me (as you said in your first response to me). I said that I was offended by the expression of the common stereotype "If fat people were honest, they'd fess up that most of them are just fat because they don't have willpower" here in this venue. Additionally, I said a thread focused on this did not seem productive to me.



This somewhat reminds me of the thread about "making an effort" with ones appearance where some women said they felt pressured to look or act a certain way so as not go support the stereotype of fat women as being lazy/sloppy/unconcerned with looks. Many posters stated it was wrong, that nobody is under any imperative to represent all fat women.

If somebody fits a stereotype, then they just do. Nobody who answered Em's original post claimed to speak for all fat people or said "I admit it, like everyone else I just eat junk food." Everyone just stated his or her own experience without any concern about how it would look in the context of stereotypes or what anti-size acceptance people might think about it.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (May 1, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> And God said, "Let her be fat." And she was fat. And God saw the fat, that it was good. And God said, "Let no man nor woman nor beast; no diet nor famine nor slight of hand; no blight nor vigorous toil undo what My hands hath made." And it was so.
> 
> And then God spake unto her, "Go fourth with great joy for you are mine, dearly loved, purposefully designed and approved in my sight. Let your light shine and give thanks and I will bless your comings and your goings," saith the Lord.
> 
> And it was so.



Um. I want a copy of the Bible you are reading from, lol.


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## TCUBOB (May 1, 2007)

Ned Sonntag said:


> Care to tell us WHICH college? Or ANY personal info? No, just want to win arguments. Be sociable.



I don't think that choosing not to reveal personal information about oneself is something that should automatically be subject to criticism. Some people have very valid reasons for keeping their personal details close to the vest. I can think of a least a half a dozen without difficulty. 

More importantly, it's a very personal decision to chose to participate here. And the level of comfort with that participation isn't always the same for all people. If some chose to share more than others about themselves, that's fine. Not everyone is in the same place in life. I would hope that we could all be open about who we are, but I'm not naive and I don't think that I could leave a $20 on the sidewalk and come back and pick it up at the end of the day.

If society completely accepted everything that we talked about here, then A) we wouldn't need this message board and B) additional posters wouldn't chose to be anonymous because there would very likely be able to be out in the open about how they feel without fear of stigma or other reprisals.

And conflict is not the antithesis of "being sociable." Conflict is what happens when people have different opinions. A sign of a healthly society, if both sides are willing to be honest about those different opinions.


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## TCUBOB (May 1, 2007)

Krissy12 said:


> I'm fat because I abhor exercise, or anything that looks like it. I don't eat alot, but I *do* have the occasional binge. I'm not a big fast food eater and I love my veggies, but I'll tear up a box of Girl Scout cookies.
> Am I ashamed of this? NO
> And I don't have any medical conditions that make me fat.
> 
> I don't think taking responsibilty for *my* fatness is saying that every big person is fat for the reasons that I am.



Girl Scout cookies were created by Satan. Thus, the Girl Scouts are agents of the devil. They should change their unis to red and add tails and horns.

That said, I bought 10 boxes this year and kept them at my desk at work as a gift to my coworkers. I had four cookies. They ate the rest. So at least I could support a good cause.

Although I had one coworker who totally abused it. She was like, "Wait, you're giving away your cookies?" And I said "Yes." At which point she walked away with three boxes, which kinda defeated the purpose. After that, I only put out one box at a time.


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## TCUBOB (May 1, 2007)

I'm new here, but maybe someone can clue me in. Being fat isn't a disease, is it? Because it seems like we're treading dangerously close to saying that it is in some of these posts.....


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (May 1, 2007)

TCUBOB said:


> I'm new here, but maybe someone can clue me in. Being fat isn't a disease, is it? Because it seems like we're treading dangerously close to saying that it is in some of these posts.....



I wouldn't say Obesity/Fatness in itself is a disease. There are diseases and medical conditions that can lead to obesity. Obesity, the name itself comes from the medical "experts".

It is my personal opinion that while fatness is not a disease in itself...but CAN become one. If that makes any sense, lol.



And on a personal note...next time, don't say you are giving your cookies away! Say you are sharing them=) In the UK...we don't have them....I would KILL for a Samoa right now, lol.


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## TCUBOB (May 1, 2007)

Perhaps I missed the exact post where someone said "If fat people were honest, they'd fess up that most of them are just fat because they don't have willpower." 

Sure, some of us are confessing to that. But we're saying it because we're being honest with ourselves. We ate what we wanted. We didn't exercise. We got fat. QED, we got fat because we had no willpower. I think that's a logical conclusion.

Many of us are also identifying other factors, but for some of us, it really is that simple and for us to pretend otherwise would be intellectually dishonest.

I (and no one else, I don't believe) is trying to attack why YOU are fat or trying to equate it with why we are fat. Only you, your Maker, and Lord knows who else knows the answer to that. But at the same time, don't take away from us the ability to acknowledge why WE are fat and attack us for those reasons. Because that devalues us and our opinions and experiences. And that's not very accepting.

Who is to say I don't understand why I'm fat? Who is to say that I'm wrong for blaming myself for being fat? What right to you have to make that judgement for me? If why I am fat offends you, how is that different from someone mocking me or you for being fat? 



BigBeautifulMe said:


> I have to admit, this thread makes me a little...angry. Honestly, we hear more and more every day about alternate causes of obesity, and yet everyone outside of our community still thinks "If fat people were honest, they'd fess up that most of them are just fat because they don't have willpower." It angers me to find this attitude in our community as well. I think those gaining intentionally are in the minority of fat people. Often, those with large appetites have large appetites for other reasons - medicines, medical conditions, and hormone imbalances caused by medical conditions and/or dieting. We still don't understand exactly how all these things come together to make a fat person - but we're learning more every day. And "let's blame ourselves for being fat" just doesn't seem constructive to me.


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## Tina (May 1, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> I suppose the fact that I spent 26 years of my life feeling the same way ("I like to eat lots of things that are bad for me, and don't like to exercise"), and facing decades of blame and humiliation for it, and then finding an actual medical reason for that (sleep apnea) has given me a different perspective on things.


Are you then saying that sleep apnea causes you to "eat lots of things that are bad for you [sic], and don't like to exercise"? Or are they all a factor? And what you see as people blaming themselves is just maybe people being honest (I think you might be seeing _some_ "internalized blame" where it doesn't exist). You are reading through the filter of your own experiences, and it seems you might be seeing emotion that doesn't apply. I can tell my experience frankly and free of emotion. Where the emotion comes in for me is when I start talking about being forced to diet and having my food controlled. To this day I turn into an angry T Rex if someone tries to dictate to me what I will and will not eat. They generally remember not to do it again...  

Frankly, I think that often, with people who have been fat since childhood, it's more complicated than 'overeating.' Personally, I think that at least one aspect is a genetic switch that once flipped cannot be turned off. My son was SKINNY until he was diagnosed with asthma and put on steroids when he was 3 or 4 years old. From then on, the weight piled on even though he ate the same and his activity level was the same. But he also eats things now, and has for a while now, that are pretty much guaranteed to put weight on anyone but those who are genetically programmed to be skinny. Still, until the steroids, which I believe flipped that genetic switch, he was skinny.

As for me, I've been fat as long as I can remember. I believe I have the genetic switch, too, but I've also always loved sugar and processed foods, simple carbs, etc, and have long eaten for various reasons -- many of which have nothing to do with hunger. As a child, I rode my bike all over and was very active. My best friends were always skinny. Kinda funny, they were always trying to gain and I was always trying to lose (once my mom started putting me on diets, on doctor's orders  I was gonna die any day, don'tcha know). Then, the fat piled on with each unsuccessful diet. I couldn't maintain diets, I loved to eat too much. I secreted away boxes of Pop Tarts (I still love them to this day, toasted, with butter, and cannot buy them or I'll eat them all in a sitting...). As an adult, I developed PCOS and a number of other things, and I really don't exercise as much as I should for health. But for me, genetics and eating a lot of crap pretty much did it.

BigBellySSBBW, I don't see where anyone is insinuating that you or anyone else could be thin were you/they to want to. Most of us are just talking about ourselves and our own experiences. I'm finding it interesting the things people are reading into and reacting to. Fatness, being fat, growing up fat -- such loaded issues.

Lilly, when is the last time I told you I love you? I can't rep you again -- Lord knows I've tried several times in the last few days. Take this comment as 'a rep in spirit, if not in body (or software, as it were).'


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## swordchick (May 1, 2007)

I'm obese because I ate like the world would run out of food. I did not exercise. Now I can't eat as much and still hate exercising. 

By the way, I see nothing wrong with discussing why we are obese. This is the place for it.


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## Paw Paw (May 1, 2007)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> I am fat because in Oklahoma if it isn't deep fried it isn't worth eating!
> 
> I love food,cookies,chips,candy,soda,gravy,fried potatoes,bread,you name it and I have eaten it..I love food..I do exercise but not enough to burn what I put in my mouth...




And don't forget the six sticks of butter in the pound cake!

My favorite memory of OK.

Peace,
2P.


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## LJ Rock (May 1, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> And God said, "Let her be fat." And she was fat. And God saw the fat, that it was good. And God said, "Let no man nor woman nor beast; no diet nor famine nor slight of hand; no blight nor vigorous toil undo what My hands hath made." And it was so.
> 
> And then God spake unto her, "Go fourth with great joy for you are mine, dearly loved, purposefully designed and approved in my sight. Let your light shine and give thanks and I will bless your comings and your goings," saith the Lord.
> 
> And it was so.



let the people say *Amen*


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## Tina (May 1, 2007)

Pound cake = :eat2: :eat1: :eat2:


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## Green Eyed Fairy (May 1, 2007)

ZainTheInsane said:


> I am fat because...
> 
> wait a second...
> 
> ...



Smart-arse - go back to eating your 5000 calorie a day diet now please


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## Green Eyed Fairy (May 1, 2007)

Rebecca said:


> as a gift from god, delivered by fairies. chocolate covered fairies.



Since my secret is now out.......


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## Green Eyed Fairy (May 1, 2007)

Friday said:


> Eating fairies!? Green Eyed Fairy is gonna be on you, chocolate covered or not.





Here's your reward for keeping an eye out for me


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## Green Eyed Fairy (May 1, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> And God said, "Let her be fat." And she was fat. And God saw the fat, that it was good. And God said, "Let no man nor woman nor beast; no diet nor famine nor slight of hand; no blight nor vigorous toil undo what My hands hath made." And it was so.
> 
> And then God spake unto her, "Go fourth with great joy for you are mine, dearly loved, purposefully designed and approved in my sight. Let your light shine and give thanks and I will bless your comings and your goings," saith the Lord.
> 
> And it was so.



GAWDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD I ~HATE!~ it when I can't rep you three times a day  
Since I can't rep you, how about some chocolate instead?


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (May 1, 2007)

Tina said:


> BigBellySSBBW, I don't see where anyone is insinuating that you or anyone else could be thin were you/they to want to. Most of us are just talking about ourselves and our own experiences. I'm finding it interesting the things people are reading into and reacting to. Fatness, being fat, growing up fat -- such loaded issues.



I was refferring to the OP. In the post it was said that the OP was tired of hearing excuses. I'm sorry, but that awakens defensiveness in me. Parents say that. "I'm sick of hearing excuses." It's not an excuse. I wish with all my heart that I was thin as a child and able to be thin now and have normal relationships and an untainted veiw of the world, but that is not the case.

I think it is great that people can own up to creating their own reality and enjoying it. Just like I know the OP does. But when a statement is made "I'm tired of hearing excuses" I get defensive and I have to speak up reguardless of what people think of me afterwards.

I guess I'm just irritated that I didn't have a choice or a chance to be normal and now I am being told to own up to it.


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## Ned Sonntag (May 1, 2007)

Tina said:


> Are you then saying that sleep apnea causes you to "eat lots of things that are bad for you [sic], and don't like to exercise"? Or are they all a factor? And what you see as people blaming themselves is just maybe people being honest (I think you might be seeing _some_ "internalized blame" where it doesn't exist). You are reading through the filter of your own experiences, and it seems you might be seeing emotion that doesn't apply. I can tell my experience frankly and free of emotion. Where the emotion comes in for me is when I start talking about being forced to diet and having my food controlled. To this day I turn into an angry T Rex if someone tries to dictate to me what I will and will not eat. They generally remember not to do it again...
> 
> Frankly, I think that often, with people who have been fat since childhood, it's more complicated than 'overeating.' Personally, I think that at least one aspect is a genetic switch that once flipped cannot be turned off. My son was SKINNY until he was diagnosed with asthma and put on steroids when he was 3 or 4 years old. From then on, the weight piled on even though he ate the same and his activity level was the same. But he also eats things now, and has for a while now, that are pretty much guaranteed to put weight on anyone but those who are genetically programmed to be skinny. Still, until the steroids, which I believe flipped that genetic switch, he was skinny.
> 
> ...



Sleep apnea has a lot to do with double chin, and neck fat... but once you've got it, you're snacking all day to keep blood sugar high enough to stay awake. Thus creating more neck fat. 
Ye olde vicious cycle.


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## Tina (May 1, 2007)

BigBellySSBBW said:


> I was refferring to the OP. In the post it was said that the OP was tired of hearing excuses. I'm sorry, but that awakens defensiveness in me. Parents say that. "I'm sick of hearing excuses." It's not an excuse. I wish with all my heart that I was thin as a child and able to be thin now and have normal relationships and an untainted veiw of the world, but that is not the case.


Ahh, I see. I just took that to be her own issue, having nothing to do with me, but I can see how, given your experiences, it would be irritating.


Ned Sonntag said:


> Sleep apnea has a lot to do with double chin, and neck fat... but once you've got it, you're snacking all day to keep blood sugar high enough to stay awake. Thus creating more neck fat.
> Ye olde vicious cycle.


Sleep apnea also happens to skinny people, too. I do undestand eating for energy and such, but it doesn't _have_ to be a vicious cycle unless the person chooses to let it be. Hard as it sometimes is, getting in some exercise helps with energy, too, especially ayurvedic deep-breathing exercises and stretching. I know from exhaustion, as I have chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia. The last thing I often feel like doing is exercising when I'm exhausted and sore, but it's also the thing, when done right, that will make me feel better.


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## Ned Sonntag (May 1, 2007)

TCUBOB said:


> I don't think that choosing not to reveal personal information about oneself is something that should automatically be subject to criticism. Some people have very valid reasons for keeping their personal details close to the vest. I can think of a least a half a dozen without difficulty.
> 
> More importantly, it's a very personal decision to chose to participate here. And the level of comfort with that participation isn't always the same for all people. If some chose to share more than others about themselves, that's fine. Not everyone is in the same place in life. I would hope that we could all be open about who we are, but I'm not naive and I don't think that I could leave a $20 on the sidewalk and come back and pick it up at the end of the day.
> 
> ...



I try to score points in political arguments with our mystery person on Hyde Park by mocking the very mysteriosity of the person. Highly unfair... social darwinism in action perhaps.


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## Waxwing (May 1, 2007)

Interesting. As usual I've arrived at the party fashionably late, but I'll still shove my nose in. 

There's nothing at all wrong with someone saying they're fat because they eat too much. That's why I was fat-- I ate like that hole was bottomless (which emotionally, it was). Am I blaming myself for being fat? Um, why yes I am, and unapologetically so. But that's not a negative thing. It was technically my "fault" because I *chose* to eat those things. 

Some people are fat for myriad reasons that aren't in their control, and certainly I don't think that this thread was designed to say that all obesity is the fault of the individual. Some of us just *are* fat in the same way that some of us are tall, or some of us have freckles. And we should always be aware of that, before we start pointing fingers at everyone whose ass doesn't fit into a size 4 jeans. 

But for those of us that do see a correlation between our choices and our sizes, what's so wrong with admitting to that? I'm not copping to being less of a person, or to being somehow flawed, just to having an appetite that was too big for my own good. That's it. 

We should never be afraid to acknowledge that there are genetic and other conditions which will cause some people to be larger no matter what they do. But likewise we should be accepting of those of us who can clearly identify the path of twinkies and cheese sauce that led us to be large. No judgment, no shame, just fact. That's how it is for some. 

And Zoom, identifying something as "junk food" is NOT analogous to saying that being fat is a death sentence. "Junk food" is Bad For You. Period. That's not really an arguable point. You can be 450 pounds and super healthy, because you eat wholesome foods which benefit your body. You can be 105 pounds of cholesterol laden flab because you fuel yourself with KFC. 

It's not the quantity of the food, it's the _quality_. Saying that a double bacon cheeseburger might not be your arteries' best friend isn't anti-fat propaganda, it's just fact. Plenty of thin people eat crap and are shortening their lives because of it.


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## BigCutieSasha (May 1, 2007)

I am obese because its in my genes. My grandmother was fat on my moms side, my grandpa on my dads side was fat. Me and my brother are both big people. We eat a lot both healthy and junk food, and we both go out for activities, but we also have large frames. I personally also enjoy eating. Its not so much that I can't help myself with eating. I eat what I want, when I want, and I stopped feeling bad about it. I am my size because of genes, and eating what I want. Plain and simple. To each his own for everyone on this board.


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## Jon Blaze (May 1, 2007)

TCUBOB said:


> I'm new here, but maybe someone can clue me in. Being fat isn't a disease, is it? Because it seems like we're treading dangerously close to saying that it is in some of these posts.....



I wouldn't say so. It heightens the risks for certain diseases, and it worsens some effects, but it does nothing in itself, but put on some pressure. Some people that have unhealthy lifestyles are overweight/obese, but it doesn't cause anything in itself. It has a correlation with about 50 ailments, but correlation is much weaker than direct cause, and it's way too subjective for science to actually make that conclusion.

They keep adding to the hysteria which annoys me. If they would advocate an adjustment to a more healthy lifestyle, that would be fine, but to have such a pejorative and prejudice view of obese people is foolish. I have noticed that people have been saying America medicine is generally ineffective because it attempts to cure the symptoms instead of the disorder at times... This whole epidemic sounds the same to me.... Obesity is closer to a symptom than a disease. They would rather attempt to make people lose weight, than advocate things that can aid weight maitenance and a healthier lifestyle.


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## Jon Blaze (May 1, 2007)

BigCutieSasha said:


> I am obese because its in my genes. My grandmother was fat on my moms side, my grandpa on my dads side was fat. Me and my brother are both big people. We eat a lot both healthy and junk food, and we both go out for activities, but we also have large frames. I personally also enjoy eating. Its not so much that I can't help myself with eating. I eat what I want, when I want, and I stopped feeling bad about it. I am my size because of genes, and eating what I want. Plain and simple. To each his own for everyone on this board.



This is exactly my point. The story is different for everyone. What is the stronger force though?


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## LJ Rock (May 1, 2007)

Jon Blaze said:


> Obesity is closer to a symptom than a disease. They would rather attempt to make people lose weight, than advocate things that can aid weight maitenance and a healthier lifestyle.



I think you just hit the nail on the head with that one, Jon. Weight gain is more often than not a sign of more complex physical changes going on with your body. Treating it like a disease in and of itself is doing a diservice to people who may be suffering from something more serious than just having some extra body fat. And like BigBellySSBBW suggested a little earlier, the kind of thinking that allows us to believe that we are sick because we are fat only seems to compound the problem and make it that much more difficult to deal with. 



Jon Blaze said:


> This is exactly my point. The story is different for everyone. What is the stronger force though?



I think its totally different for everone. One positive thing that can be gained from this thread is to take note of the variety of responses people have given. If the replies posted here can be any kind of indication of a crossection of society or fat people at large, then one might ascertain that for most folks it is lifestyle and food choices that lead to their weight gain. Genetics and hormones might play a part for some more than others, and certainly eating habbits learned as kids plays a big role (the dangers of yo-yo dieting, gaining and losing rapidly, starving and binging, etc.) Then there are a few who are just genetically predisposed towards being *big*, it is apparently written into their genetic make-up and there is little or nothing they can do to change it. 

I think for someone like me, who for the most part has a metabolic tendency towards being thin, my lifestyle and food choices have led me to gain weight as I've aged. I have a relatively sedntary lifestyle, don't exercize as much as I could or should, and I favor eating fatty foods that are higher in calories as opposed to the leaner fruits and vegatables (and yes, on more occasions than I can recall, I've gone overboard and indulged more than one maybe ought to... no apologies, just a fact.) This middle of the road demographic seems to be a pretty widespread phenomenon amongst most people. Now, if I had been heavier as a kid or had 'fat genes' as it were, who knows where I'd be right now. Safe to bet I'd be a lot bigger and heavier than I am now. 

Furthermore, I feel for the folks here who have found objection with this thread. Truth be told, I was a little shocked to see it at first myself, seeing as how some of the messages contained within could be seen as playing into the myths surrounding fat and fat-bigotry (the lack of will power, laziness and unbridled gluttony stereotypes.) The redeming quality here is that this thread is called "I am Obese because..." and not "It's all my fault that I am fat and here's why..." Despite some perhaps contrary wording in the OP, I think it's an aptly titled thread, one that is very thought provoking and revealing, and I am really impressed by peoples candor and honesty in their responses.


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## TCUBOB (May 1, 2007)

Well, I don't want to be hurtful  to anyone on this thread , but I'm not sure that we have room for your nose .....it's awfully large ....can you just inch your way in and we'll tell you  when to stop? 

Just start with the tip , come in slow , and we'll let you know? 


Waxwing said:


> Interesting. As usual I've arrived at the party fashionably late, but I'll still shove my nose in.


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## Tina (May 1, 2007)

One of my favorite film quotes is from "Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves." It was Morgan Freeman as the Moor, Azeem, sitting on the grass atop a bluff who said the words I find so true, whether it's God, Allah, Buddha, the Goddess, the Universe, whatever:

*Azeem*: Salaam, little one.
*Little girl*: Did God paint you?
*Azeem*: Did God paint me? For certain.
*Little girl*: Why?
*Azeem*: Because...Allah loves wonderous variety.

I think this applies to body size, too, whether tall or short, thin or fat. When I gaze upon a garden, I prefer it to have a variety of flowers and not just one kind. So much is talked about "obesity," but how often is the obverse mentioned -- that there is genetic skinniness as well as genetic fatness? We were not all meant to be the same size, color, have the same features, voice, etc. I enjoy diverstity and it pisses me off when people want to put us all in the same box and exterminate the quality that makes those of us who are meant to be fat unique. How boring the world would be if everything and everyone looked the same!


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## Jon Blaze (May 1, 2007)

Tina said:


> One of my favorite film quotes is from "Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves." It was Morgan Freeman as the Moor, Azeem, sitting on the grass atop a bluff who said the words I find so true, whether it's God, Allah, Goddess, the Universe, whatever:
> 
> *Azeem*: Salaam, little one.
> *Little girl*: Did God paint you?
> ...



GO TINA!!!  Diversity and Equality. 

(Because I can't rep 'n' stuff  )


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## Jon Blaze (May 1, 2007)

LJ Rock said:


> I think you just hit the nail on the head with that one, Jon.



Maybe I should become a Pharmacist. I'm sure my views would turn some heads.


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## Waxwing (May 1, 2007)

Jon Blaze said:


> This is exactly my point. The story is different for everyone. What is the stronger force though?



Maybe it doesn't matter. I see this thread as a forum for people who *want* to determine the stronger force to do so. If you don't want to and it's not important to you, rock on. I think that people were getting touchy because it's such an emotionally charged issue. If I say "it was my own fault that I was fat" it's easy for someone to hear that as a direct attack on their life. It's so hard to not hear these things emotionally, since so much of our self-concept is wrapped up with size.

And to clarify-- I don't mean "fault" as a bad thing. It's responsibility. Agency. Nothing wrong with that.


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## Waxwing (May 1, 2007)

BigCutieSasha said:


> I am obese because its in my genes. My grandmother was fat on my moms side, my grandpa on my dads side was fat. Me and my brother are both big people. We eat a lot both healthy and junk food, and we both go out for activities, but we also have large frames. I personally also enjoy eating. Its not so much that I can't help myself with eating. I eat what I want, when I want, and I stopped feeling bad about it. I am my size because of genes, and eating what I want. Plain and simple. To each his own for everyone on this board.


 
Sasha, this is great, because (if you don't mind me pointing you out as an example of greatness ) you have some of all the factors, and are comfortable with it. You identify the things that you can control and the things that you can't, and you're living your life in a way that makes you happy. 

Goddamn RIGHT ON. 

I think you rock the house.


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## Jon Blaze (May 1, 2007)

Waxwing said:


> Sasha, this is great, because (if you don't mind me pointing you out as an example of greatness ) you have some of all the factors, and are comfortable with it. You identify the things that you can control and the things that you can't, and you're living your life in a way that makes you happy.
> 
> Goddamn RIGHT ON.
> 
> I think you rock the house.



Yep... I was about to say something along those lines. Maybe you are right: As long as everyone talks about things other than just their lifestyles (Which may or may not be unhealthy in a general sense), I guess it is ok.


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## bigplaidpants (May 1, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> And God said, "Let her be fat." And she was fat. And God saw the fat, that it was good. And God said, "Let no man nor woman nor beast; no diet nor famine nor slight of hand; no blight nor vigorous toil undo what My hands hath made." And it was so.
> 
> And then God spake unto her, "Go fourth with great joy for you are mine, dearly loved, purposefully designed and approved in my sight. Let your light shine and give thanks and I will bless your comings and your goings," saith the Lord.
> 
> And it was so.



"You must spread some rep around....<whatever>...."

Given my background and interests, as Lilly should know, this is both the right content and the right form for saying what I believe needs to be said. Should I say, proclaimed. It is both theological & poetic - and even hard-won. It makes a claim of faith, even if unintended. (And, to clarify, I'm not getting all-religious here. I'm talking about a meaning of "faith" that is existential and looks risk and hatred in the face.)

....but my experience is that saying or believeing such a thing (as Lilly's written) in our fat-phobic (we need a word for fat-hatred, like feminists have with misogyny) culture requires something quite akin, if not, the same as "faith." 

That means it is an occasion for celebration and praise (of whatever type).

I'm not trying to put words in Lilly's mouth or overstate her post. I simply am chiming in on something that strikes close to home for a FA and someone who grew up feeling fat.


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## Violet_Beauregard (May 1, 2007)

Ditto!

Part of my situation is definitely genetic. My father's side of the family is all big. We're Italian and we call it the Carapellotti Curse.... (Carapellotti is my grandma's maiden name).... LOL 
Plus, like Sasha said... I have a big frame... I was born that way. I could lose 100 pounds, but I would never be tiny...I'm not made that way.

The other part is exactly like Sasha said. I like to eat. Period. I eat what I want, when I want, and how much I want. I eat as much as my body tells me is cool. I know when I've over eaten.. I feel it. I have basically been the same size for about 20 years...give or take 10 pounds. I'll probably always be this size. I've done a damn good job of accepting my size, and liking myself. If I'm happy with me, I don't care if anyone else isn't. As Bon Jovi would say.... "It's my life, and it's now or never...I ain't gonna live forever..." so I'm living my life. 





BigCutieSasha said:


> I am obese because its in my genes. My grandmother was fat on my moms side, my grandpa on my dads side was fat. Me and my brother are both big people. We eat a lot both healthy and junk food, and we both go out for activities, but we also have large frames. I personally also enjoy eating. Its not so much that I can't help myself with eating. I eat what I want, when I want, and I stopped feeling bad about it. I am my size because of genes, and eating what I want. Plain and simple. To each his own for everyone on this board.


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## Zandoz (May 1, 2007)

There has been much debate over the concept of "will power" and the lack there of. My point of view? Lack of will power is as likely to be a symptom as it is a cause....and probably more so.


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## James (May 1, 2007)

BigCutieSasha said:


> I am obese because its in my genes. My grandmother was fat on my moms side, my grandpa on my dads side was fat. Me and my brother are both big people. We eat a lot both healthy and junk food, and we both go out for activities, but we also have large frames. I personally also enjoy eating. Its not so much that I can't help myself with eating. I eat what I want, when I want, and I stopped feeling bad about it. I am my size because of genes, and eating what I want. Plain and simple. To each his own for everyone on this board.



I'm repped - out but as I've said to you on many an occasion (you are probably bored of hearing it by now actually  ) I totally respect and agree with your attitude on this. 

Its positive, its balanced and, as Waxwing said, its awsome


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## Waxwing (May 1, 2007)

James said:


> I'm repped - out but as I've said to you on many an occasion (you are probably bored of hearing it by now actually  ) I totally respect and agree with your attitude on this.
> 
> Its positive, its balanced and, as Waxwing said, its awsome



Plus she has a great smile.

(oh yes i did just go there. )

Zandoz, you raised and interesting point. Can you expand a bit on it? I think you may be right.


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## Miss Vickie (May 1, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> I think saying that "most people" are fat because they just like to eat is inaccurate and far too narrowly-focused a point of view, and that encouraging people to "admit it" and not "make excuses" is doing the same thing - placing stigma and blame on that act, despite your avowed rebellion against that stigma.



I guess to me this goes to the larger issue of blame. Why can't we just take responsibility for the choices we make, without blame? To me that's the issue here -- the semantics of using the word "blame" when really, I think people are just taking responsibility for the choices they make and discussing the biological reasons for those choices, as well as the things which are out of our control, like genetics.



Rebecca said:


> I didn't say I ate the fairies lol...



So you.... licked the chocolate off of them? 



LillyBBBW said:


> And God said, "Let her be fat." And she was fat. And God saw the fat, that it was good. And God said, "Let no man nor woman nor beast; no diet nor famine nor slight of hand; no blight nor vigorous toil undo what My hands hath made." And it was so.
> 
> And then God spake unto her, "Go fourth with great joy for you are mine, dearly loved, purposefully designed and approved in my sight. Let your light shine and give thanks and I will bless your comings and your goings," saith the Lord.
> 
> And it was so.



This is beautiful, as is Tina's quote about variety. I don't for one minute think we're all supposed to be the same anything -- height, shape, color, etc. Genetic diversity is a beautiful thing. To me fat isn't of itself a bad thing -- it only became bad, for me, when I couldn't move anymore and it was making me unhealthy. For those who can stay fat, love being fat, and are healthy -- more power to ya.



Waxwing said:


> We should never be afraid to acknowledge that there are genetic and other conditions which will cause some people to be larger no matter what they do. But likewise we should be accepting of those of us who can clearly identify the path of twinkies and cheese sauce that led us to be large. No judgment, no shame, just fact. That's how it is for some.



This is what I'm trying to say. Thanks for being so articulate since I don't feel like I'm making sense. No judgment. No shame. Just fact.



Waxing said:


> "Junk food" is Bad For You. Period. That's not really an arguable point. You can be 450 pounds and super healthy, because you eat wholesome foods which benefit your body. You can be 105 pounds of cholesterol laden flab because you fuel yourself with KFC.



Exactly so. You can call it entertainment foods, but that doesn't make it good for the body, and if all someone eats is chemically laden, non-nutritious foods it doesn't matter what the scale says. Eventually their body will pay that price. How quickly that happens depends on the person, but you can't tell me that dark green leafies and KFC chicken skin are equally good for the body. One has nutrients that the body can use, and the other? Very tasty but full of chemicals and saturated fat. Not to say that treating yoirself to fun foods is a bad thing. But making your diet mostly from it? Not so good. And that's not a weight issue. That's a health issue.



James said:


> I'm repped - out but as I've said to you on many an occasion (you are probably bored of hearing it by now actually  ) I totally respect and agree with your attitude on this.
> 
> Its positive, its balanced and, as Waxwing said, its awsome



I agree. Sasha's post is right on and she always strikes me as someone who has a really good attitude about her body. My hope is that she can always be so positive and healthy. She's a remarkable woman.


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## Jes (May 1, 2007)

Waxwing said:


> It's not the quantity of the food, it's the _quality_. Saying that a double bacon cheeseburger might not be your arteries' best friend isn't anti-fat propaganda, it's just fact. Plenty of thin people eat crap and are shortening their lives because of it.



i have never wanted you more.

agreed.


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## BigCutieCindy (May 1, 2007)

I am obese because I take in more calories then my body burns off. 

Other contributing factors include: 
A genetic predisposition (I'm the third woman in my family that is over 500 lbs) 
A slow metabolism (years of yo-yo dieting undoubtedly contributed to this as well as a sedentary lifestyle) 

As far as not expecting to be accommodated goes, I do expect to be accommodated because I have the same rights as anyone else does fat or not. I have the right to sit comfortably at a restaurant, my doctor's office, the hairdresser, etc. If there is not appropriate seating for me at such places I will request it. Those establishments that can/will honor my request will get my business, those that don't/won't will not. 

Not everyone wheelchair bound is so due to no fault of their own, yet it is expected that all of them are accommodated. Why should it be any different for fat folks?


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## Zandoz (May 1, 2007)

Waxwing said:


> Plus she has a great smile.
> 
> (oh yes i did just go there. )
> 
> Zandoz, you raised and interesting point. Can you expand a bit on it? I think you may be right.



A simple example: someone craving sweets...or salt...or what ever. Therefore they eat more of that what ever...because it is filling a need, and they enjoy it, it takes more will power to resist it. The cause for that crave could be mental, it could be traumatic, it could be genetic, it could be any sort of medical reason...or all of the above. But no matter the cause, not having enough will power to overcome the tendency to a behavior is always going to be a symptom. It may well be the amount of will power needed is super human monumental to some...or a no-brainer to others...but it's irrelevant to the cause in most cases.


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## Waxwing (May 1, 2007)

Zandoz said:


> A simple example: someone craving sweets...or salt...or what ever. Therefore they eat more of that what ever...because it is filling a need, and they enjoy it, it takes more will power to resist it. The cause for that crave could be mental, it could be traumatic, it could be genetic, it could be any sort of medical reason...or all of the above. But no matter the cause, not having enough will power to overcome the tendency to a behavior is always going to be a symptom. It may well be the amount of will power needed is super human monumental to some...or a no-brainer to others...but it's irrelevant to the cause in most cases.


 
This is an important point, and I'm glad you brought it up. 

We tend to look at "will power" as the be all end all of weight-loss success, but because our cravings are so linked with our emotions, it's not as simple as just 'resisting' food. My weight/lack of will power was absolutely a symptom of my emotional issues, and dealing with them allowed me to (and that's still a work in progress) interact with food in a healthier way.


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## Zandoz (May 1, 2007)

Waxwing said:


> This is an important point, and I'm glad you brought it up.
> 
> We tend to look at "will power" as the be all end all of weight-loss success, but because our cravings are so linked with our emotions, it's not as simple as just 'resisting' food. My weight/lack of will power was absolutely a symptom of my emotional issues, and dealing with them allowed me to (and that's still a work in progress) interact with food in a healthier way.



I guess a another way to put it is that no matter the cause of a propensity to engage in a behavior, resisting that propensity is always going to take more will power than giving in to it. "Lack" is no gauge of how much will power would be required to resist the perpensity...it could be easy, it could be humanly impossible. Regardless it is mute to the reasons why.


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## ashmamma84 (May 1, 2007)

I am obese because:

I love good food

I eat too much of the good food

I don't care for rigorous excercise (though that is changing slowly)

I have fat genes - on both my Mother's and Father's side

And, because, dammit...I like the way it looks, the way it feels


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## GPL (May 1, 2007)

supersoup said:


> fat=awesome
> awesome=soup
> 
> therefore, i am fat because i am awesome.
> ...



Wow girl!
You are quite awesome indeed:wubu: 


_fat=awesome - awesome=soup_


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## BigBeautifulMe (May 1, 2007)

Thank you, Zandoz. THIS IS ALL I HAVE BEEN SAYING. Oy. There is nothing more frustrating than having your posts misinterpreted and twisted until there is nothing left of them. 

I don't CARE if you want to "take responsibility" for your size. That's fine and dandy. In fact, I admire you (and here, I'm using the generic "you," not referring to anyone specific) for having the courage to post something like that here. All I'm saying is that I think that in many people's cases, there is often a secondary cause behind the way they eat. As Zandoz said, eating certain types of food is often a symptom of something else going on. I'm not saying this applies to EVERYONE here. I'm not judging anyone for "taking responsibility." I'm not in any way trying to apply it to my own life, because it doesn't. I took for granted that emotional would be seen as part of physical/physiological secondary reasons I was talking about, but I'll specify it here, too, since it obviously wasn't. I'm not saying this "secondary cause" theory applies to ANYONE here, much less EVERYONE. I'm just saying that if you took all the fat people in the world and lined them up and got to know them well enough, I bet you'd find reasons OTHER than just "I like to eat" behind many people's size. Again, many, most, NOT ALL. 

If you're going to argue with me, please actually argue my real point - MOST fat people are not just fat because they like to eat. Notice this statement says nothing about YOU personally, nor does it judge anyone that IS fat because they like to eat. I like to eat, too! Why the heck would I care if you do? 

And Tina, yes, sleep apnea causes serious cravings for lots of starchy, sugary foods in order to just stay awake. And regardless of how active you are when you still have the ability to "push through" the tiredness, once you get to the point where you can't even get up to go to class, work, etc, that goes out the window. People with untreated severe sleep apnea, if left untreated long enough, eventually get to that "zombie" point where they just can't function at all, much less get out to go walking.


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## Waxwing (May 1, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> If you're going to argue with me, please actually argue my real point - MOST fat people are not just fat because they like to eat. Notice this statement says nothing about YOU personally, nor does it judge anyone that IS fat because they like to eat. I like to eat, too! Why the heck would I care if you



Most? I'm not arguing the point, just curious about that determination.

I don't think that anyone was misinterpreting you. It seemed that you were saying that the idea of taking responsibility for eating habits was somehow a negative thing, and related to blame and guilt. And I don't want you to feel like there's anything negative in it. I wouldn't wish apnea on anyone, and I'm sorry you have to go through that.


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## Brenda (May 1, 2007)

I am not handicapped, I am fat. I am not sick, I am fat.

If eating a lot does not result in fatness why would feeders and feedees be funnel feeding? Why would they find "laziness" and inactivity so attractive? 


It seems there is a disconnect to reality when diet is not considered the primary cause of how much one weighs. If we all ate 1200 calories a day of veggies and lean meats I am willing to bet the farm the large majority of us would be thinner at a years end. 

We are all making choices and I firmly believe it is our right to do so. There is no "blame" because it is our life's and our bodies to do with as we wish. Truly accepting your size IMO is being honest about the choices we make that may contribute to being large. 

If it is okay to be fat than it must be okay to "choose" to be fat. That it is not such an awful state that you are only brought there kicking and screaming.

Brenda


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## ashmamma84 (May 1, 2007)

Brenda said:


> I am not handicapped, I am fat. I am not sick, I am fat.
> 
> If eating a lot does not result in fatness why would feeders and feedees be funnel feeding? Why would they find "laziness" and inactivity so attractive?
> 
> ...




I agree whole heartedly.


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## Tina (May 1, 2007)

BBM, maybe it's a case of you knowing what you mean, but just not being clear enough so that others know what you mean. I really don't believe people are intentionally twisting your words. I know that sometimes this has happened to me, and when so many disagree with me in ways that lead me to think that I'm being misread, I have to remind myself to step back and see if maybe I'm not being as clear as I could be. 


BigBeautifulMe said:


> And Tina, yes, sleep apnea causes serious cravings for lots of starchy, sugary foods in order to just stay awake. And regardless of how active you are when you still have the ability to "push through" the tiredness, once you get to the point where you can't even get up to go to class, work, etc, that goes out the window. People with untreated severe sleep apnea, if left untreated long enough, eventually get to that "zombie" point where they just can't function at all, much less get out to go walking.


Try having chronic fatigue and fibro and see if that doesn't have the same effect, at the very least. I know how it is. I also know that, as I said, deep-breathing and stretching exercises can help, because it oxygenates the body and gives energy. And certainly if one has been starved for oxygen all night while sleeping, that is exactly what one would need.


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## BigBeautifulMe (May 1, 2007)

Yep. Most. There have been numerous articles on physical reasons people "overeat" or crave sweet/starchy foods. When you add all of these people in with the people for whom "overeating" and "eating the wrong foods" is not even the cause of their size, I would be willing to bet that would add up to "most" fat people.

Once you take into account:
People who are fat because they are too poor to afford healthy foods (this will be a seriously large number).
People who are fat due to genetics.
People who are fat due to PCOS.
People who are fat due to diabetes.
People who are fat due to other metabolic disorders.
People who are fat due to other medical issues.
People who are fat because of the side effects of medication.
People who are fat because they have binge eating disorder.
People who are fat because they eat emotionally or use food as a coping mechanism of some sort. 
People who are fat because they have spent years dieting and have a metabolism that is totally shot.
People who are fat because there is some medical issue that makes them physically crave starches/sugary foods.
People who are fat because they work two or three jobs and have to rely on convenience food/fast food because they just don't have time to prepare healthy meals.
People who work several jobs and have to choose between exercise and possibly catching 5-6 hours of sleep.
People who have no simple way to exercise because it is unsafe to go outside in their neigborhoods and they cannot even come close to affording a gym membership. 

When you take into account all these different potential reasons for being fat, then yes, I think it's safe to say that "most" people are not fat just because they like to eat.

(This post was in response to Waxwing's last comment).


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## BigBeautifulMe (May 1, 2007)

Tina, I think that's possible. Generally, though, I'm fairly good at getting my point across - and the rep and PMs I've received in support of what I'm saying demonstrate that at least I'm getting my point across to some. I suppose I could be the most eloquent writer in the world, and there would still always be people who would misinterpret what I'm saying (unintentionally or otherwise). 

I wrote out something long and involved on why sleep apnea is a lot different than CFS and fibromyalgia, but realized it could come across as me trying to diminish your experiences. I've deleted it. Suffice it to say that while all these things involve tiredness/exhaustion, that experienced by severe apnea sufferers (in my case, I stop breathing 97 tims per hour without treatment) is different, in my opinion. I admire you, as I admire anyone else who has to endure a chronic illness, for being as strong as you are despite it.


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## supersoup (May 1, 2007)

i'm also fat because SOMEONE has to carry this rockin shelf around. why let some other dumb broad be blessed with it?!

woot.


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## Waxwing (May 1, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Once you take into account:
> 
> People who are fat because they are too poor to afford healthy foods (this will be a seriously large number). ---* This is not an uncontrollable factor, becuase you CAN eat healthful foods on a very very small budget. No you can't buy all organic produce at Whole Foods, but mcdonalds isn't your only option.*
> People who are fat due to genetics.* Sure, some, but we don't know how many, don't know the extent to which this plays a role. This is a very vague statement, and science is still only scratching the surface of understanding it.*
> ...



You know, I wouldn't have spent this time picking apart your list if you didn't seem so defensive. It's simply unnecessary. Why are you so set on wholly taking weight out of the category of personal responsibility? Again it's not a judgment to say that someone has *some* control over their weight. NOT EVERYBODY can control it, and I have said so about 100 million times, so quit thinking you're being attacked. Nobody is attacking you. But to say "most"? Why is that position so important to you?


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## BigBeautifulMe (May 1, 2007)

Brenda said:


> I am not handicapped, I am fat. I am not sick, I am fat.



I never said all fat people are sick or handicapped, nor did I say you specifically were.



> If eating a lot does not result in fatness why would feeders and feedees be funnel feeding? Why would they find "laziness" and inactivity so attractive?



I never said it didn't. Also, feeders and feedees are not the majority of fat people, which is the group I am discussing.



> It seems there is a disconnect to reality when diet is not considered the primary cause of how much one weighs. If we all ate 1200 calories a day of veggies and lean meats I am willing to bet the farm the large majority of us would be thinner at a years end.



Again, I never said diet was not a cause of fatness. I said for most, there is often a reason BEHIND the diet other than just "I like sweets" or "I like to eat."



> We are all making choices and I firmly believe it is our right to do so. There is no "blame" because it is our life's and our bodies to do with as we wish. Truly accepting your size IMO is being honest about the choices we make that may contribute to being large.



Of course it is our right to make our own food choices. I do so myself on a regular basis, and boldly. I agree with you 100% that there should be no blame assigned to food choices. That is what I have been saying all along. Being honest about the choices one makes regarding food is not going to be the same for everyone. My honest statement regarding the food choices I make, and what causes me to make those food choices, is going to be different than yours. 




> If it is okay to be fat than it must be okay to "choose" to be fat. That it is not such an awful state that you are only brought there kicking and screaming.
> 
> Brenda



Of course it's okay to choose to be fat. I would not be here at Dimensions if I felt otherwise. Nor did I ever say or even insinuate that being fat is an "awful" state. I love being a woman of size, and despite the fact that I didn't get here, personally, through only lifestyle choices, I love who I am, and wouldn't trade it for the world.


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## Tina (May 1, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Tina, I think that's possible. Generally, though, I'm fairly good at getting my point across - and the rep and PMs I've received in support of what I'm saying demonstrate that at least I'm getting my point across to some. I suppose I could be the most eloquent writer in the world, and there would still always be people who would misinterpret what I'm saying (unintentionally or otherwise).


I'm sure many of us are getting reps and PMs, but it's a fact that everyone reads things differently. Some have mis-taken your words and you have mis-taken others' words, and so it goes. It happens, but I think the conversation is a valuable one, because not everyone fits the stereotype, and even those who do, the ones who throw the stereotypes out there do it with spite and malintent, and I think that's what often chaps the hides of those who don't like to see that stereotype confirmed. As I said in an earlier post, it's often complicated, and even in some who state they are fat only because they overeat might have had a hard time being thin had they eaten 'normally.' We just don't know.



> I wrote out something long and involved on why sleep apnea is a lot different than CFS and fibromyalgia, but realized it could come across as me trying to diminish your experiences. I've deleted it. Suffice it to say that while all these things involve tiredness/exhaustion, that experienced by severe apnea sufferers (in my case, I stop breathing 97 tims per hour without treatment) is different, in my opinion. I admire you, as I admire anyone else who has to endure a chronic illness, for being as strong as you are despite it.


Thank you, and I appreciate that. A friend of mine always says she doesn't like to compare pain and I agree with that. While conditions and their causes may differ, profoundly exhausted is profoundly exhausted, and no matter what you call the cause the result is in the same ballpark.

We all have our burdens to carry, whether physically, emotionally, or life-situational. The human spirit is strong and we often find ways to overcome. That's what I love about us as a species.


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## BigBeautifulMe (May 1, 2007)

In short, because it's true, and the myth that it's not is such an ingrained cultural stereotype that it even seeps onto these boards. And yep, that bothers me. Please feel free to continue to perpetuate it. I'm sure you won't be alone. I'm done with this thread. Anyone who was going to actually get anything out of it has already gotten my point. The rest of you are going to disagree with me if I say "the sky is blue" right now. So I'm done. 

And by the way, I challenge you to live below poverty level and eat healthfully. At some point, it just can't be done. There was an article on this very subject posted on Dims yesterday. Feel free to search for it if you want sources.

ETA: That was to Waxwing.


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## Tina (May 1, 2007)

Just who are you talking to here?


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## Waxwing (May 1, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> In short, because it's true, and the myth that it's not is such an ingrained cultural stereotype that it even seeps onto these boards. And yep, that bothers me. Please feel free to continue to perpetuate it. I'm sure you won't be alone. I'm done with this thread. Anyone who was going to actually get anything out of it has already gotten my point. The rest of you are going to disagree with me if I say "the sky is blue" right now. So I'm done.
> 
> And by the way, I challenge you to live below poverty level and eat healthfully. At some point, it just can't be done. There was an article on this very subject posted on Dims yesterday. Feel free to search for it if you want sources.


 
"The myth that it's not"????? Are you even reading what other people say? We're all saying sometimes yes sometimes no, and in some cases I absolutely agree with you, BBM!! I really do! And I have no doubt that in your case your apnea has caused really serious problems and I think that's terrible. But it's not the same for everyone. And because every person is not wholly in agreement you're getting mad. That's a poor style of argument. 

You know what, I spent my ENTIRE CHILDHOOD below poverty level. I was fat as a kid because it was *easier* to purchase unhealthy foods. Damn right it was. But I did learn to eat heathfully while living on welfare. So guess what? It can be gone. 

Jeez M. Crow, was really ever arguing with you. You are brandishing a sword for a friendly discussion, and rather than acknowledging that we're all right on some level about this very controversial issue, you're taking your toys and going home in a huff. That's just silly.


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## Waxwing (May 1, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> And by the way, I challenge you to live below poverty level and eat healthfully. At some point, it just can't be done. There was an article on this very subject posted on Dims yesterday. Feel free to search for it if you want sources.
> 
> ETA: That was to Waxwing.



Oh and let me just say, don't ever presume to know anything about the way I do or have lived, because I would never presume to do that to you. None of us know how the other has lived, so don't make assumptions please.


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## LoveBHMS (May 1, 2007)

there is a difference between something being difficult or challenging and a person choosing to not do it.

Tina has posted about her particular medical issues and how she deals with them. Curvy Em started this thread (and others agreed) by saying she is the size she is by her own choices/desires to eat certain food and not exercise. Bob and Isa and others have said they suffer from a variety of genetic/health issues and also have made choices regarding eating and exercise. TSL has said her brother is heavy and remains so because he enjoys eating certain foods and has decided to keep eating them and is thus willing to stay at a certain size.

Taking "choice" and "responsibility" out of the size equation does not do the SA movement any favors, any more than does mocking health care professionals and doctors and anyone that says that super size fries and KFC are not good for you. Yes, it is easier to be able to afford organic produce and sushi, but it is not impossible to buy such foods as pasta, oatmeal, frozen veggies, fruit, and generic brands of certain things and eat healthfully while on a tight budget. I know enough people that have done it to know it is not impossible. I also know people who belong to high priced gyms and those whose exercise program involves doing pushups and ignoring the elevators in favor of stairs. The choice is up to the individual.

I think Em did a really good thing in starting this thread. And I also think that the experiences of every person who chose to post are important and informative. I am willing to guess that there are even people who have read this thread and chosen to NOT post a reply, but who have been pushed to think harder about their bodies and lifestyles just because they read this thread.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (May 1, 2007)

I'm sorry. I guess I just completely missed the part where Waxwing says being fat is always the part of the fat person. (Then again, she's TRICKY.)

Maybe when being fat starts to affect your health, it's time to do something about it. And people successfully do stuff about it. That is not to say they get thin. If one lives in a bad neighborhood and can't walk outside and can't afford a gym membership, they can do all sorts of exercises inside their homes. Fruits and veggies come ready to eat in many cases. My fat brother actually works a 50-60 hour a week job, often third shift, and you know what he does? Brings his own lunch. SOME of that lunch may be a couple homemade cupcakes, have no doubt. He also packs turkey breast, whole wheat sandwiches, and fresh fruit. He also exercises like a madman. 

And you're right. Doing all the right things does not mean R will ever be thin. But he overcomes his problems and he's in better health than at least 90% of his coworkers.  Hell, his KID is fat, and she's very active with a great diet eating everything from frozen peas and carrots to chocolate bars. She has a veggie or fruit with every meal or snack. She drinks water instead of juice or soda. Every week she goes to the park AND the zoo. Still, she's on the high end of weight for kids her age. Even though she's fat, her growth RATE is proportionate and she's healthy. Her parents didn't go: "Well, you're fat, so we'll starve you/let you eat all the crap you can get your hands on."

There is NOTHING WRONG with being fat. No one has said that. There is something insanely wrong with saying, "Well, I'm fat. Guess I'll eat whatever I want because I'm screwed." 

As for the craving thing? If a craving leads someone to eating loads of shit filled with preservatives, white sugar, and other crap, and it's affecting their health, maybe they should stop. That rule applies to EVERYONE. 

Ultimately, we make our own decisions about what goes in our mouths and how much exercise we get. And doing all the right things may NEVER EVER mean someone ends up thin, and it's probably not worth it to most sane humans to never eat a bowl of ice cream again just to be a size 6 (or 16). But being fat or thin is not justification for poor eating and exercise habits. And all the rep and PMs you ever garner because you try to justify poor eating and exercise habits (and CHRIST KNOWS I HAVE THEM!) will never make that okay. To steal a line from a friend, "If Health at Any Size is a good enough theme for the NAAFA, it's good enough for the rest of us."



BigBeautifulMe said:


> Yep. Most. There have been numerous articles on physical reasons people "overeat" or crave sweet/starchy foods. When you add all of these people in with the people for whom "overeating" and "eating the wrong foods" is not even the cause of their size, I would be willing to bet that would add up to "most" fat people.
> 
> Once you take into account:
> People who are fat because they are too poor to afford healthy foods (this will be a seriously large number).
> ...


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## Waxwing (May 1, 2007)

Thank you. 

I personally think that it's essential to hear everyone's experience with weight because it is too easy to peg everyone into "can't control it" or "just eats too damned much". We're all very different, and it's as damaging to the size acceptance movement to say "most of us have no choice" than it is to say "it's all your fault."

You see? As soon as we assume that people have no choice in being fat, we edge dangerously close to calling fat a disease. And a disease has to be cured. We risk a correlation between fat people and, say, a bunch of lepers. And that's simply nonsense.

It is important that we leave choice in the mix, because part of the reason we're all here is that we DEMAND the freedom to enjoy our bodies as they are, fat or thin. It is our CHOICE. It isn't everyone's choice to be fat, just as it isn't everyone's choice to be thin. But in order to change a world in which we are judged on size, we have to remember that to choose to be one or the other is ok.


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## MissToodles (May 1, 2007)

yes, but don't think "personal responsibility" is a loaded phrase for most people here?


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## Waxwing (May 1, 2007)

MissToodles said:


> yes, but don't think "personal responsibility" is a loaded phrase for most people here?



Sure, but I think that it's valid for us to use it in these types of discussions, and maybe in so doing take away the sting. We should be able to use it, at least amongst each other, without judgment.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (May 1, 2007)

MissToodles said:


> yes, but don't think "personal responsibility" is a loaded phrase for most people here?



Aren't you that crazy lady who cooks dried beans and has walking poles for exercise?

Sure. I think it's a loaded term. Still, you don't (and lots of others here don't) seem to think that size is an excuse to eat horribly and not exercise.


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## MissToodles (May 1, 2007)

yes, but sometimes as mentioned in other threads, it's nearly impossible to separate health/activisim. We deserve to be healthy, for better care etc. Yet this totally falls into personal responsibility catergory if somehow our health falters. I realize people are using ancedotes but I hate when these conversations veer into this direction. If we try to be free of judgement about body size, can we be free of judgements based on health/ability? 

I'm not one of those people who want to ban conversation about their co-morbidites or other issues, just that we (general we) don't point the finger. I don't think starting threads about how much you can walk or how you got fat are constructive to advancing acceptance. How about accepting "as is"? Of course, this is my opinion and no one has to agree.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (May 1, 2007)

MissToodles said:


> yes, but sometimes as mentioned in other threads, it's nearly impossible to separate health/activisim. We deserve to be healthy, for better care etc. Yet this totally falls into personal responsibility catergory if somehow our health falters. I realize people are using ancedotes but I hate when these conversations veer into this direction. If we try to be free of judgement about body size, can we be free of judgements based on health/ability?



Absolutely. If someone has no desire or ability to be fit, they shouldn't be judged for that. However, at some point, if fat activism should ever progress, there should be a level of honesty, that yes, our intake and output effect us.


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## LoveBHMS (May 1, 2007)

Do I think it's a loaded phrase? No. I think it means being brutally honest with yourself and others about the choices you make.

Lots of people suffer from drug and alcohol addiction. Some of them have the means to afford $1000/day rehab clinics, while others can go to AA which is free. Is the $1000/day clinic easier? Sure. But AA is free and available to anyone who chooses to go, so saying "I can't get sober because I don't have the extra thousand dollars a day" is making a choice.

For a very small amount of money, you can buy spaghetti and cans of frozen vegetables. Doing so requires time and the effort to cook. For the same amount of money you can go to Wendy's or KFC. Is fast food easier? Sure. But don't say that a box of spaghetti does not cost a dollar because it does. And don't say the whole box if you don't put alfredo sauce on it does not have less fat and calories then a McDonald's super size meal because it does.

As far as exercise, if you have to get to work, you can walk or drive. If you take public transport you can get off one or two stops before your destination and walk. You can always take stairs instead of an elevator or escalator. You can do situps or other calisthenics at zero cost. OR you can choose to not do those things (as is your right) and say that you cant work out because the gym costs a hundred dollars a day.


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## Waxwing (May 1, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> As far as exercise, if you have to get to work, you can walk or drive. If you take public transport you can get off one or two stops before your destination and walk. You can always take stairs instead of an elevator or escalator. You can do situps or other calisthenics at zero cost. OR you can choose to not do those things (as is your right) and say that you cant work out because the gym costs a hundred dollars a day.


 
It sounds silly, but when I was a young teen I used to march in place in front of the TV for an hour at a time (this proved to be awful for my poor knees, but I didn't know that at the time  ). I couldn't afford a gym, and in the places I grew up being outside alone would have been very dangerous. It wasn't ideal, but I did it. I also ate frozen peas and rice. 

And if you don't want to do those things? That's A-OfuckingK. It is totally fine to choose to not. But "don't choose to" and "can't" are not the same thing.


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## Tina (May 1, 2007)

I have to say, though, that not everyone _can_ lose weight, or should even feel they need to. 

It wasn't until three years ago that I was finally able to lose weight and keep it off (knock on wood). I happened to hit on the right formula for my body, but because of my issues with food and some health issues, I cannot always do what I need to in order to lose weight. For the last year, year and a half, I have yo-yo'd the same 5-8 lbs, but while sometimes frustrating, it's okay. That was a total of 45 years struggling with trying to lose weight and keep it off, and even at that, I feel lucky that I was able to do it, because not everyone can. Hell, before then, _I_ couldn't. I will say that at times in the past, I became discouraged and said "screw it" and ate whatever I wanted because I gave up. I know there are others who have done this, too, and who maybe are doing it right now.

Personal responsibility is a very important thing in life, IMO, but at some point, for some people, it only does so much good. The planets must align, the angels must sing exactly in tune, and a little section of Hell must develop a bit of frost in order for some of us to be able to pull it off and continue to maintain it over the longer term -- and that has less to do with personal responsibility than it does with finding just the right thing that works for the individual first, and THEN responsibility kicks in. And still, with an eating disorder, sometimes the drive to eat (yes, drive) can undermine all of those efforts. I quit smoking almost 10 years ago after having smoked for over 20 years (had gotten up to about 2 1/2 packs per day of Marlboro, red box); have published an online feminist magazine that I sometimes devoted 18-hour days to near deadline (and had others who said they couldn't do it after I finally burned out); lost almost 120 lbs by the sweat of my brow -- and other things I could tell of but won't -- so I am not a person without backbone and willpower. But when I'm in the middle of being driven to eat sometimes, there's no arguing with it. Most of the time there is. Wish I could explain it, and fortunately those times are few, but they're there. It takes a lot of strength, though, sometimes, to exercise even though I feel like shit (and I don't always do it; haven't been doing it lately), and to turn away foods I love. Sometimes I can do it, sometimes I cannot.

Some, no matter what they try, cannot lose. I've seen it, had friends go through it, and have been through it myself in the past. Yet, if I cannot be responsible for myself then who will be? I still would like to lose a bit more, but will be happy if I can do it slowly, while maintaining the mobility and better health I have gained. I know I can do it, but doing it is up to me, and it's difficult because my body wants to stay fat. And I'm lucky in that regard, because I know I _can_ do it. 

Okay, I feel like I'm rambling now, but I wanted to say that there is a gray area in here in which a number of fat people fall, where even when personal responsibility is taken, it doesn't always work, and that is often when the blame from others come in, and the feelings of failure from ourselves.


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## Waxwing (May 1, 2007)

You're not rambling, and I really appreciate you sharing what you've gone through. I know lots of people like that as well; people that regardless of what they try, just can't lose weight. And that is absolutely valid. There are so many variances between people. It just chaps my hide when "all" gets tossed in there.


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## Tina (May 1, 2007)

Me, too, Wax. The claims that all fat people can, or cannot, lose weight is ridiculous, and lazy thinking.


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## LoveBHMS (May 1, 2007)

Tina you are exactly right. All anyone of us does is gets up each morning and does the best we can with what we have. Everyone faces challenges, whether that means physical or mental health or finances or stress or a sick child or a demanding job or an addiction or just plain old bad luck. 

I wholly believe that it is more about how you *cope with* what happens then what happens. And also that attitude goes a long way. The old cliche about how whether you think you can or you can't, you're right.


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## MisticalMisty (May 1, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> A thread asking people to take the blame for their own size, which is what this one feels like to me, just seems extremely out of place to me in this community.



How? A lot of people are partly to blame for their size. Discussing it and admitting it isn't shameful or harmful.


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## Tina (May 1, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> Tina you are exactly right. All anyone of us does is gets up each morning and does the best we can with what we have. Everyone faces challenges, whether that means physical or mental health or finances or stress or a sick child or a demanding job or an addiction or just plain old bad luck.
> 
> I wholly believe that it is more about how you *cope with* what happens then what happens. And also that attitude goes a long way. The old cliche about how whether you think you can or you can't, you're right.



Thank you. And, Love, what you are saying about coping reminds me of a quote I saw from Dr. Andrew Weil today; it's about stress:
_
Stress is often a matter of how we frame a situation, rather than the situation itself, and how we react to potential stressors is greatly influenced by our internal reaction to external situations._

As I head towards the wedding and the move, I am trying to use that as my mantra. 

I do believe life is all about attitude, and yet, I still have a number of days where my shit-colored glasses are on. It's part of being human. My first impulse is to be hard on myself, and sometimes I am. But I do know I don't deserve it. None of us does.


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## LoveBHMS (May 1, 2007)

> As I head towards the wedding and the move, I am trying to use that as my mantra



Everyone knows moving and getting married are fairly low stress events. 

Heh.


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## Waxwing (May 1, 2007)

Tina said:


> I do believe life is all about attitude, and yet, I still have a number of days where my shit-colored glasses are on. It's part of being human. My first impulse is to be hard on myself, and sometimes I am. But I do know I don't deserve it. None of us does.



Yes yes a bazillion times. :wubu:


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## Tina (May 1, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> Everyone knows moving and getting married are fairly low stress events.
> 
> Heh.



Yeah, true. What the hell's wrong with me? I know -- a huge lottery win would solve it all!!!


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## Butterbelly (May 1, 2007)

I'm fat because:

1. I eat way too much unhealthy foods.
2. I don't exercise enough.
3. I live off Mt. Dew.
4. My hormone and female issues haven't helped.


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## LoveBHMS (May 1, 2007)

Tina said:


> Yeah, true. What the hell's wrong with me? I know -- a huge lottery win would solve it all!!!



If people start thinking having money solves all your problems, then everyone will want some. Shhhhh.


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## Tina (May 1, 2007)

Heh.  They also say that winning the lottery is one of the greatest stressors. I'd be willing to test that out, though. And as problems go, frankly, it would solve almost all of mine.


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## LoveBHMS (May 1, 2007)

Tina said:


> Heh.  They also say that winning the lottery is one of the greatest stressors. I'd be willing to test that out, though. And as problems go, frankly, it would solve almost all of mine.



it's stressful largely because all those long lost relatives start coming out of the woodwork. And they'll all expect wedding invitations. You know how pushy those third cousins twice removed can get.


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## Brenda (May 1, 2007)

I am baffled that you took my post so personally. It was not directed at you specifically. Rather it was just my opinions and my view of things based on reading the entire thread and living life as a fat person.

You are right that there are many factors at play at why a heavy person may be eating. It is not simple or easy to lose weight for a heavy person especially those heavy since childhood like myself and I never get the idea from any of the posters in the thread that they thought otherwise. Regardless that my sister was nearly 650lbs, both my parents over 300lbs, fat grandparents and great grandmothers, I have PCOS, I had sleep apnea and I eat for emotional reasons if you were to hold a gun to my head and say drop the cookie, I could and would. No one here is saying that we woke up one day and decided to be fat, but it is a process we have chosen to continue. 

Brenda



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenda View Post
I am not handicapped, I am fat. I am not sick, I am fat.
I never said all fat people are sick or handicapped, nor did I say you specifically were.

Quote:

If eating a lot does not result in fatness why would feeders and feedees be funnel feeding? Why would they find "laziness" and inactivity so attractive?
I never said it didn't. Also, feeders and feedees are not the majority of fat people, which is the group I am discussing.

Quote:


It seems there is a disconnect to reality when diet is not considered the primary cause of how much one weighs. If we all ate 1200 calories a day of veggies and lean meats I am willing to bet the farm the large majority of us would be thinner at a years end.
Again, I never said diet was not a cause of fatness. I said for most, there is often a reason BEHIND the diet other than just "I like sweets" or "I like to eat."

Quote:

We are all making choices and I firmly believe it is our right to do so. There is no "blame" because it is our life's and our bodies to do with as we wish. Truly accepting your size IMO is being honest about the choices we make that may contribute to being large.
Of course it is our right to make our own food choices. I do so myself on a regular basis, and boldly. I agree with you 100% that there should be no blame assigned to food choices. That is what I have been saying all along. Being honest about the choices one makes regarding food is not going to be the same for everyone. My honest statement regarding the food choices I make, and what causes me to make those food choices, is going to be different than yours.


Quote:
If it is okay to be fat than it must be okay to "choose" to be fat. That it is not such an awful state that you are only brought there kicking and screaming.

Brenda
Of course it's okay to choose to be fat. I would not be here at Dimensions if I felt otherwise. Nor did I ever say or even insinuate that being fat is an "awful" state. I love being a woman of size, and despite the fact that I didn't get here, personally, through only lifestyle choices, I love who I am, and wouldn't trade it for the world.


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## imfree (May 1, 2007)

I'm obese for several reasons. It is difficult for people who really want to lose weight to succeed in weight loss. I love the way fat looks and feels, both on any lover I may have the good fortune to be with, as well as 
on my own body. I am past the point of no return and at least half-way to immobility. I have accepted the physical limitations caused by my 415 lb weight on my 5'8" body. I aggressively manage the conditions brought on 
by my obesity. I'm going to turn 52 in June. I think I have several years left in me and I should survive my extreme obesity to a remarkably old age.
I was a small, skinny. weak boy in my youth. My Oma (German, Grand-mother) did nurture me and encourage me to eat. I was very poor at PE in school and no one ever wanted me on their team. I was totally inept 
on my feet and never even saw the ball most of the time. I have a central nervous system related breathing disorder that causes me to go hypoxic under exertion. I have a very poor capacity for exercise and didn't even know why until October 2004!
Oma was heavy, so there's a genetic component. "The Visitor" is a piece I wrote about a daydream in which I had a short conversation with a very lovely 400 lb woman, so there's a sexually-based component. I love to eat and I'm a diabetic on U-500 insulin, so there's probably a metabolic or endocrine-based component. I am passionate and can produce adrenaline and surprising strength on demand, I just can't take in oxygen fast enough to have any staying-power.
Yep, fat is sexy, I love fat girls and I love being fat. Being fat has cost me everything and I still won't quit. I'm OK with it and I'm happy.


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## TCUBOB (May 1, 2007)

This is exactly the point that I tried to make earlier, a couple of pages ago. I felt like some of the rhetoric here WAS saying that being fat was beyond the control of EVERYONE who was fat, which WOULD make being fat a disease. And I don't believe that being fat is a disease. Because that would indicate that you could go get a shot, or take a pill or have an operation and be "cured." Or that if you were fat, it was because you wouldn't do one of those simple things and thus deserved any bad or unfortunate thing that resulted from your size. 

Another thing....there has been some discussion of some disorders or even diseases causing weight gain or people to be fat.....now, I don't pretend to be a doctor, not even on TV, but I'm pretty sure that I wasn't a diabetic until I got very fat. But it wasn't just that I got fat, it was that I ate a lot of crappy, sugary foods, in all likelyhood. But BEING a diabetic didn't CAUSE me to gain weight (I'm type II, if that makes a difference). Gaining weight (due to diet and inactivity) caused me to be diabetic. At least that's how I understand it. Is there something that I'm missing here? Although I suppose I could have become diabetic by eating crap and still exercising and not gaining weight....I'm now totally confused and have no idea if I have a point anymore.....



Waxwing said:


> You see? As soon as we assume that people have no choice in being fat, we edge dangerously close to calling fat a disease. And a disease has to be cured. We risk a correlation between fat people and, say, a bunch of lepers. And that's simply nonsense.
> 
> It is important that we leave choice in the mix, because part of the reason we're all here is that we DEMAND the freedom to enjoy our bodies as they are, fat or thin. It is our CHOICE. It isn't everyone's choice to be fat, just as it isn't everyone's choice to be thin. But in order to change a world in which we are judged on size, we have to remember that to choose to be one or the other is ok.


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## Ryan (May 1, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Why am I fat? Sleep apnea, which I have had from birth, and years of dieting (and forced starvation periods as a child).



My father has sleep apnea and he had no problem maintaining a healthy weight with a balanced diet and a reasonable amount of exercise. Although he doesn't get much exercise now because his knees are all screwed up. :doh:


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## TCUBOB (May 1, 2007)

MissToodles said:


> yes, but don't think "personal responsibility" is a loaded phrase for most people here?



I'm sure that it is. But I'm not comfortable with the fact that we are constantly eroding our ability to express ourselves through words because 1 or 2 or 10 or more people think something is "loaded." 

Are there words that are so hateful and offensive, phrases too, that they should never be used? Of course. George Carlin made a career out of using them on stage.

But I'm also reminded of the DC city aide who got railroaded out of his job for using the perfectly legitimate and non-offensively rooted word "niggardly" during a budget hearing. I'll wait while you Google the definition.

Yeah. Didn't make a difference. He got his ass handed to him because of what people THOUGHT it meant. Guy uses an SAT word and gets fired.

My point, I think, is that one (wo)man's "personal responsibility" may be another (wo)man's horrible unspeakable word. That doesn't mean that we should never utter it again. You do that and we're back to grunting at each other and drawing pictures....and maybe no pictures since they can be pretty objectionable, too.


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## BigBeautifulMe (May 1, 2007)

Ryan said:


> My father has sleep apnea and he had no problem maintaining a healthy weight with a balanced diet and a reasonable amount of exercise. Although he doesn't get much exercise now because his knees are all screwed up.



Since this something directed at me concerning something I said about my own personal life, I'll respond.

If your father had untreated severe sleep apnea for 25 years like I did, and had no problem maintaining a healthy weight, he's a lucky man.


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## jimmi (May 1, 2007)

I have never been thin. When I was in 3rd grade a kindergarten-er innocently asked me, "why are you so fat?" and without much thought I replied, "I was born that way." He thought about my answer for a moment, then accepted it and moved on. 

Now, older and...well maybe a bit wiser, I understand genetics as only one of the many factors attributing to my grandiose figure. 

I was a very active fat kid, spent nearly all my time outside; running, jumping, playing. Not to mention I was also involved in almost all the after-school sports and activities available. And I ate, a lot. My grandparents lived a couple of blocks from us and I would usually eat dinner with them, then go home to eat another dinner with my parents. So I was fat.
When my family and I moved under stressful circumstances and I lost my friends and playmates, I also lost the urge to do anything outside. But my appetite remained. So I was fatter. 
When I didn't make new friends and became routinely ridiculed at school for my size, I began eating more out of stress.
When I started dieting and starving myself and then inevitably bingeing, I gained even more weight. 
When I started exercising, I also started noticing the stares I would get as my ample body jiggled with movement so, embarrassed, I stopped. 
When I became depressed because I saw no way to fit in, to be accepted, to lead a "normal" life, I would eat. I'm sure I saw the irony of that at the time, but food had by then become a comfort, my only friend. 

Through some miracle, I made it through high school and started to meet people who accepted me, liked me, loved me. I finally realized that I was a person beyond my body. There was more to me! There was more to life! I still struggle sometimes with the idea of completely accepting myself at this size, but on most days I am happy. 

I suppose if I had been a stronger person I would have dealt with my emotions in some other way. But when I think of what an insecure, scared child I was, I can make no apologies. I am human, and that is what happened!


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## MissToodles (May 1, 2007)

Loaded in the sense as fat people, we constantly hear the mantra "lose weight or die" or "put down that burger and eat a salad". Why do value people who follow a perfectly balanced diet?

I don't want people to censor their thoughts but we also shouldn't follow the path of telling one another about personal responsibility. I hear enough when I go to the doctor, etc. I suppose this discussion falls under the catergory of context vs. intent.


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## Ample Pie (May 1, 2007)

one question, directed at no one in particular...

How the hell can it really be 'okay' to be fat, if it isn't okay how we got there--however we got there? Because it's one in the same. I don't want to have size acceptance ONLY if I'm not fat because of something I did. Or only if I am fat because of something I did. I'd seriously hope that SA lent itself to people of size however they got there. 

just saying.


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## Zoom (May 1, 2007)

Waxwing said:


> And Zoom, identifying something as "junk food" is NOT analogous to saying that being fat is a death sentence.


No, but doctors do both.


> "Junk food" is Bad For You. Period. That's not really an arguable point. You can be 450 pounds and super healthy, because you eat wholesome foods which benefit your body. You can be 105 pounds of cholesterol laden flab because you fuel yourself with KFC.


This is exactly what I'm talking about-- being so sure of oneself that what one believes cannot have a counter-argument.

As it happens, I presented you with no data about my culinary lifestyle, and therefore nobody knows exactly how much "junk" food I consume and how much "healthy" food.

I could accept that eating *only* "junk" food is bad for oneself. However, the point is that it is difficult to prove junk food is bad for one, PERIOD. Especially if taken with at least one "healthy" meal.

The only counter-arguments I can think of involve greater "risks" of coming down with various things, and that's exactly what doctors say about fatness-- greater "risks" of diabetes, for example, which I don't for a minute believe.

I guess my point is that I have no desire to call what I eat "junk", especially if it helps me more emotionally than 10 tons of celery and fruit juice.



> It's not the quantity of the food, it's the quality. Saying that a double bacon cheeseburger might not be your arteries' best friend isn't anti-fat propaganda, it's just fact. Plenty of thin people eat crap and are shortening their lives because of it.


I would agree... but as nobody can define exactly by how much lives are being shortened, how do we know they are being shortened?

Let's take an example of a man, we'll call him R. Terry. He eats a double bacon cheeseburger and then falls over and dies 10 years later. How much better off would he have been if he had not eaten the burger? Well, we don't have any parallel universes we can look into, and to make things worse, for all we know God wanted him to die that day because "his time was up". So he might have died in some other, perhaps more bizarre way.

So to say it's automatically bad... while not backing it up with undisputable evidence... well, it's not anti-fat, but it's propaganda just the same.


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## Ryan (May 1, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Since this something directed at me concerning something I said about my own personal life, I'll respond.
> 
> If your father had untreated severe sleep apnea for 25 years like I did, and had no problem maintaining a healthy weight, he's a lucky man.


 
Just out of curiosity, how did doctors determine that you had sleep apnea for 25 years? 

Anyway; my dad was overweight for quite a while because he had a fairly unhealthy diet (lots of soda, fast food, etc.). Once he stopped eating so much junk food, the weight started to come off. It seems that his diet had more to do with his weight than the sleep apnea. I'm not a doctor, but I've seen nothing to suggest that his love of junk food was a result of his sleep apnea. Although I _have_ read that people with sleep apnea can gain wait simply because they are too tired to exercise. I've also read that obesity can be a major cause of sleep apnea.


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## BigBeautifulMe (May 1, 2007)

Ryan said:


> Just out of curiosity, how did doctors determine that you had sleep apnea for 25 years?
> 
> Anyway; my dad was overweight for quite a while because he had a fairly unhealthy diet (lots of soda, fast food, etc.). Once he stopped eating so much junk food, the weight started to come off. It seems that his diet had more to do with his weight than the sleep apnea. I'm not a doctor, but I've seen nothing to suggest that his love of junk food was a result of his sleep apnea. Although I _have_ read that people with sleep apnea can gain wait simply because they are too tired to exercise. I've also read that obesity can be a major cause of sleep apnea.


They determined I was born with it from my mother's comments that I would snore, stop breathing, and choke and gasp for air even as a baby. Her comment to the doctor was that she thought it was normal since she and my father both did it (I suspect my mom has apnea, and that my father did as well). I had all kinds of imaging done of my airway, and basically the construction of this particular area of my body is such that no matter what weight I was, I would have apnea. 

There's a lot of stigma regarding apnea, and many people think it's a fat people disease. The truth of the matter is that more studies are being done (finally) on whether it's the weight that causes the apnea, or the apnea that causes the weight. It's different for everyone, obviously, but I think a lot of people believe their apnea is a result of their weight when it's the other way around. Not everyone who has apnea is fat, and not everyone who manages to lose the excess weight gets rid of their apnea.


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## Brenda (May 1, 2007)

""Loaded in the sense as fat people, we constantly hear the mantra "lose weight or die" or "put down that burger and eat a salad". Why do we place so much value on people who eat a balanced diet?

I don't want people to censor their thoughts but we also shouldn't follow the path of telling one another about personal responsibility. I hear enough when I go to the doctor, etc. I suppose this discussion falls under the catergory of context vs. intent.""

I actually far prefer the company of those who choose the Cheesecake Factory for dinner than those who suggest a wheat grass smoothie. 


I don't think anyone is preaching go on a diet fatty or it is all your damn fault your so fat. What my intent is that in order to truly accept myself I have to acknowledge who I am and how I got there. I think by acknowledging that I eat "bad" foods I am not worshiping the "healthy lifestyle icons" or even giving them knee service.

Brenda


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## Ryan (May 1, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> They determined I was born with it from my mother's comments that I would snore, stop breathing, and choke and gasp for air even as a baby. Her comment to the doctor was that she thought it was normal since she and my father both did it (I suspect my mom has apnea, and that my father did as well). I had all kinds of imaging done of my airway, and basically the construction of this particular area of my body is such that no matter what weight I was, I would have apnea.



Did your parents ever take you to the doctor for this when you were a baby? I would think that watching your child stop breathing and choke over and over again would be kind of alarming.


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## BigBeautifulMe (May 1, 2007)

You would think. I had allergies and other health issues as a child, but my mother never mentioned my sleep issues to a doctor back then. It wasn't until I asked her after I had already learned I had apnea two years ago that she said, "Oh yeah...wait, that's not normal?"

Yeah, I know.


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## Isa (May 1, 2007)

The turn this thread had taken is surprising. I used to lie to myself about my weight and it did not make me feel one ounce better. As stated before I'm fat due to my eating habits and non active lifestyle. To say otherwise is just an untruth. Yes I have PCOS and while it may contribute to the difficulty in losing weight it's by no means the primary reason for it being here. 

The truth is that I eat fast food as if any minute the FDA is going to ban it - this is why I am damn near 400 lbs. Now add to that the refusal to do any meaningful exercise and it's almost textbook. I could delude myself and blame it on heredity, weather and almost anything else but what good would it do? I will never understand why being honest is considered such a bad thing in the size acceptance world. Yes there can be medical reasons for being fat but I will also suggest that eating habits are a contributing factor more than most want to admit. 

There's nothing wrong with accepting and loving our fatness but the negativity being aimed at some for being honest in how it came about baffles me.


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## Sandie_Zitkus (May 1, 2007)

I agree Isa. And how on earth did this thread become a "let's compare bloody knees" thead????

I'm fat for lots of reasons not excuses and in order for me to get my life back I have to be honest with myself. If that bothers some people - well I'm not gonna do anything about that.

We all have different issues and different solutions - I thought we respected that? 




Isa said:


> The turn this thread had taken is surprising. I used to lie to myself about my weight and it did not make me feel one ounce better. As stated before I'm fat due to my eating habits and non active lifestyle. To say otherwise is just an untruth. Yes I have PCOS and while it may contribute to the difficulty in losing weight it's by no means the primary reason for it being here.
> 
> The truth is that I eat fast food as if any minute the FDA is going to ban it - this is why I am damn near 400 lbs. Now add to that the refusal to do any meaningful exercise and it's almost textbook. I could delude myself and blame it on heredity, weather and almost anything else but what good would it do? I will never understand why being honest is considered such a bad thing in the size acceptance world. Yes there can be medical reasons for being fat but I will also suggest that eating habits are a contributing factor more than most want to admit.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with accepting and loving our fatness but the negativity being aimed at some for being honest in how it came about baffles me.


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## Ryan (May 1, 2007)

I forgot to respond to this part earlier:



BigBeautifulMe said:


> There's a lot of stigma regarding apnea, and many people think it's a fat people disease. The truth of the matter is that more studies are being done (finally) on whether it's the weight that causes the apnea, or the apnea that causes the weight. It's different for everyone, obviously, but I think a lot of people believe their apnea is a result of their weight when it's the other way around. Not everyone who has apnea is fat, and not everyone who manages to lose the excess weight gets rid of their apnea.



Based on what I've read, sleep apnea can be caused by _and be_ the cause of excessive weight. This is at least in part due to the fact that it's more difficult to exercise if you're tired all the time. If this is correct, then it seems to me that a good way to deal with any related weight gain would be to place a higher priority on fitness. For example; if the person suffering from sleep apnea has any energy left at the end of the work day he or she should make a point to exercise before participating in any other activities or social events. On days off, exercising should be the first thing the person does.


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## FaxMachine1234 (May 1, 2007)

I'm _technically_ a lil bit below "obese", but I've been a bit above before, so hopefully I qualify.

I was always somewhat overweight as a kid (partial genetics), and if I'd never found Dimensions and the whole FA/whatever scene I'd probably be the same weight I am now (about 190). But due to influences from FFA friends--which I welcomed, I should say--I've been going up and down 60 pounds the last couple years, and I overeat often because of that interest (which comes and goes...currently gone). Not that I don't love those people or really regret those times (though high school might have been different), but I think that did put a mindset in my head that's hard to let go of sometimes, and I think I'd probably be bigger if I didn't have such a relatively fast metabolism. Still, this falls under the "I made my own decision" heading.

I do wish someone in my life had informed me of sleep apnea awhile back, because I think I have a minor form of it, and it might have been aggravated by weight I put on in 8th grade. Five years of describing my constant fatigue to my doctors and they never had an answer. They're so helpful!

And from an objective point of view, I just think it's impressive this thread went from three to nine pages in one day. And all of it insightful, too!


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## Miss Vickie (May 1, 2007)

Waxwing said:


> Again it's not a judgment to say that someone has *some* control over their weight. NOT EVERYBODY can control it, and I have said so about 100 million times, so quit thinking you're being attacked. Nobody is attacking you. But to say "most"? Why is that position so important to you?



Exactly so. It doesn't really matter to me -- and it shouldn't matter to anyone else -- why someone is fat. They are -- we are -- still deserving of the same good things that thinner folks are deserving of. I mean, are we ONLY deserving of fair treatment if fatness was beyond our control? That's crazy talk.



BigBeautifulMe said:


> And by the way, I challenge you to live below poverty level and eat healthfully. At some point, it just can't be done. There was an article on this very subject posted on Dims yesterday. Feel free to search for it if you want sources.



Been there, done that, for about six years or so. I was on WIC, and we at a lot of beans and brown rice, which are very cheap foods. I remember going to the market and asking the butcher to give me 39 cents worth of hamburger because that's all we had until payday (this was when I lived in a residence hotel in the Tenderloin in San Francisco). We cooked on a hotplate and ate a lot of pasta with a single jar of homemade pesto that seemed to last forever; we'd dress up the pasta with hamburger, or we'd have beans and rice with some bullion cubes, onion and garlic. Now sure, it wasn't fun, and we weren't able to eat Amy's entrees or buy organic meat or organic milk. But we were able to eat healthfully without resorting to fast food.



MissToodles said:


> yes, but don't think "personal responsibility" is a loaded phrase for most people here?



But should it be? And is that fair? I think once we are honest about why we are the size we are and be honest about it, people will take us more seriously. Most thin folks don't believe us and roll their eyes when we say "I have a glandular condition." I mean, it's become a huge joke. But starting a dialogue here will allow us to have good, honest dialogue with "them" and so people will understand us a little bit better. Some of why we're fat is within our power to change. Some isn't. I think that's true of most things in life, don't you?



Tina said:


> Okay, I feel like I'm rambling now, but I wanted to say that there is a gray area in here in which a number of fat people fall, where even when personal responsibility is taken, it doesn't always work, and that is often when the blame from others come in, and the feelings of failure from ourselves.



No rambling, but you make an excellent point. There is a huge grey area between "It's not my fault at ALL" and "It's TOTALLY my fault" where, as you say, most of us fall. I'm fat in part because of things outside my control, but if I had chosen not to diet stupidly as a teen, and if I had chosen to be more active earlier in life, I probably wouldn't have been as fat as I was. I think this is pretty typical for a lot of us.



MissToodles said:


> Loaded in the sense as fat people, we constantly hear the mantra "lose weight or die" or "put down that burger and eat a salad". Why do value people who follow a perfectly balanced diet?



I think there's still that puritan work ethic thing in many of us, the whole "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" thing that many of us were raised with. And we're easy targets. Nobody tells a thin person to "put down that burger". But you know what? They should! Fatty foods are no better for thin folks than for us, but for some reason we're easy prey for diet advice.



Rebecca said:


> one question, directed at no one in particular...
> 
> How the hell can it really be 'okay' to be fat, if it isn't okay how we got there--however we got there? Because it's one in the same. I don't want to have size acceptance ONLY if I'm not fat because of something I did. Or only if I am fat because of something I did. I'd seriously hope that SA lent itself to people of size however they got there.
> 
> just saying.



Exactly. How we got here is irrelevant to the greater purpose of size acceptance, or at least it should be. I think we fall into a cultural trap of "sucking it up" if we blame ourselves, but really? It shouldn't matter.


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## Tina (May 2, 2007)

Zoom said:


> I could accept that eating *only* "junk" food is bad for oneself. However, the point is that it is difficult to prove junk food is bad for one, PERIOD. Especially if taken with at least one "healthy" meal.


I do not have indisputable evidence, as I'm too busy to research it, however, it has been known for years that junk food often has no discernable nutrients or fiber. Note the word "often," as I'm sure there are some exceptions. Thing is, if the body needs fuel, and good fuel in order to feed the various organs and systems, and one is filling up most of the day on junk food, it stands to reason there will be little room left for veggies, fruits, complex carbohydrates, and good protein. Only one meal per day of healthful food is not enough to get one's daily requirement of quality fuel. Now, if one is eating a mostly healthful diet of nutritious foods, but one has junk food occasionally it's not bad. But invert that equation, and it won't be surprising to find that the body doesn't run efficiently, and a host of effects will likely crop up long-term. Short-term results would likely be a lack of energy, amongst others I would think. I am no nutrition specialist, however, as a fat person, for the first 30-some-odd years of my life I read everything I could get my hands on that would tell me how to lose weight, what the body systems needed to be healthful, etc. And since then, I have researched herbs and the healing value of foods, as well as what makes for a balanced and healthy diet. As for junk food, I ate it for most of my life and it did me no favors, though sometimes I miss it. Especially Pop Tarts and cookies.


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## Tina (May 2, 2007)

MissToodles said:


> Loaded in the sense as fat people, we constantly hear the mantra "lose weight or die" or "put down that burger and eat a salad". Why do value people who follow a perfectly balanced diet?


Yeah, that whole judgement of what fat people eat but not thin has always chapped my hide. Just like sometimes people will check out what's in a fat person's shopping cart, but not pay attention to what the thin person is buying -- like it's any of their danged business anyway.

As for perfectly balanced diets, I doubt I could achieve that. Ever. But I do try to eat healthfully as often as possible.


> I don't want people to censor their thoughts but we also shouldn't follow the path of telling one another about personal responsibility. I hear enough when I go to the doctor, etc. I suppose this discussion falls under the catergory of context vs. intent.


I agree with that, and feel that it's my business what I do just like it's your business what you do. I have my opinions, but they don't really matter much to anyone else's life but mine.


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## Buffie (May 2, 2007)

Not only was I born to a long line of large people who happened to be good and generous cooks, I made choices that led to fatness. 

Some of the choices were based on socio-economic issues. Some of the choices were based on emotional issues. Some of them were based on hunger. Many of them were based on desire for yummy goodness in my tummy. 

I ~heart~ food so much. Seriously, food is in my top 5 favorite things. I even adore the eating process. The smell, the texture, the flavor, chewing, swallowing, feeling full and satisfied. Few things make me more happy than good food in abundance.

The fact that I don't exercise enough probably contributes, but I do break a good sweat on purpose several times a week. Walking, working with small weights, chasing the kitties around the house... 

Lastly, I owe a good deal of credit for my size to WHAT I eat. CARBS!!!!!

Fried potatoes, mashed potatoes, baked potatoes. Bread... any bread. Cake. Pasta.... mmmmm.

I eat the good stuff, too. Fruit, oatmeal, veggies and fish and stuff. But I would just spaz if I had to live in a world without carbs.

To sum it up - 

Buffie is fat because of:

genetics
choices
more choices
and 
choices
(and edited to add...)
and CARBS!


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## EJKorvette (May 2, 2007)

Speaking for myself, when I work my program, I lose weight, and I feel better. That is, I stop snoring at night, my cholesterol goes down, and I have more energy. My clothes fit better, and I just feel better all around because I am making positive choices for myself, and acting on them.

EJKorvette


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## Friday (May 2, 2007)

> Originally Posted by Zoom
> I could accept that eating only "junk" food is bad for oneself. However, the point is that it is difficult to prove junk food is bad for one, PERIOD. Especially if taken with at least one "healthy" meal.





> Thing is, if the body needs fuel, and good fuel in order to feed the various organs and systems, and one is filling up most of the day on junk food, it stands to reason there will be little room left for veggies, fruits, complex carbohydrates, and good protein. Only one meal per day of healthful food is not enough to get one's daily requirement of quality fuel.




It's kinda like, who goes out of their way to put bad gas in the tank of their car? Or kids themselves when it starts dieseling, running rough and getting bad mileage that it's not the crappy gas.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (May 2, 2007)

Ok, I figured it out.

Last night, during sleep...it came to me.

The thread bothers me cos it asks why you are FAT and to stop making excuses. What the thread *should* have asked is why are you the size you are? To me those are two *VERY* seperate issues.

I admit, I have contributed to my _current size_ and so has my husband. (I am getting down though! Nearing the 400's whoot!) However, by the definition of fat (not thin), I have no control over that. I will always be bigger than normal and it stuck a chord that I was being blamed for not being thin when genetics and other medical factors will prevent that from ever happening when it is all I have wished for since I was a child.

If Em had asked why we are the size we are, I wouldn't have been offended or got defensive at all....it was just the choice of words and I'm sure she didn't do it on purpose.

Now that makes sense to me....I hope it makes sense to other people, lol.


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## Ned Sonntag (May 2, 2007)

Ryan said:


> I forgot to respond to this part earlier:
> 
> 
> 
> Based on what I've read, sleep apnea can be caused by _and be_ the cause of excessive weight. This is at least in part due to the fact that it's more difficult to exercise if you're tired all the time. If this is correct, then it seems to me that a good way to deal with any related weight gain would be to place a higher priority on fitness. For example; if the person suffering from sleep apnea has any energy left at the end of the work day he or she should make a point to exercise before participating in any other activities or social events. On days off, exercising should be the first thing the person does.


 Read it on Page Five when I said it. I find this preaching about exercise disturbing... sounds like Vince is back.


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## stan_der_man (May 2, 2007)

CurvyEm said:


> I'm obese because I eat too much, I don't exercise at all and probably because I drink too much too. I'm so sick of both hearing and giving excuses for it. Most of us fat people are overweight because of our lifestyle. So everyone, tell me why you are fat! No more excuses, just the plain honest truth  I assure you, you'll feel better for it.
> 
> I also wanted to add. It's *my* fault I'm fat, I don't expect people to accommodate me for it. I expect to be treated like a human and not demonized for it, but it's my life choice.



Here is an abbreviated list of blogs and websites where other people confess: "I'm obese because" ...

http://phat-diary.blogspot.com/
http://livinlavidalocarb.blogspot.com/2005/04/links-to-low-carb-articles-i-have.html
http://fiddaman.blogspot.com/2007/04/paxil-protest-petition-comments-part.html
http://www.onhealth.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=56467
http://www2.ubersite.com/m/53700
http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=137487
http://schuezz.blogspot.com/2007/02/master-of-destiny-or-victim-of-life.html
There are many more...




CurvyEm said:


> Not really. At least I don't think so. As most people on this thread have said most of us are fat because we make the wrong food choices or exercise. Not all, but most. Whats wrong with admitting it? It's the truth and I think it's about time people stood up and said "look I like to eat, I don't like to exercise, I'm big... So what?" rather than making excuses for their size.



CurvyEm, I don't think your intention for this thread was malicious, but there is an easily assumed implication that "wrong food choices" are what create the "horrors of obesity and poor health". There are plenty of thin people that make poor food choices and are in poor health because of it. As an FA I've endured a lifetime of low self-esteem based comments from women who I thought were beautiful and could be large and healthy if they would just stop making negative comments about their eating habits and whatever factor in their lives they blamed on making them fat. Maybe it's just the way you worded this thread that rubs me wrong. "I'm obese because" sounds like the first step of a confessional from Jenny Craig, or Weight Watchers. The next being how to "escape this prison of fat which I have surrounded myself with"... I'm bombarded with shit like this constantly from the media, from people at work, and from my wife's WLS group, trust me, it doesn't help my self-esteem as an FA. Nothing personal towards you Em, but that's why I don't like the tone of this thread.



BigBeautifulMe said:


> I have to admit, this thread makes me a little...angry. Honestly, we hear more and more every day about alternate causes of obesity, and yet everyone outside of our community still thinks "If fat people were honest, they'd fess up that most of them are just fat because they don't have willpower." It angers me to find this attitude in our community as well. I think those gaining intentionally are in the minority of fat people. Often, those with large appetites have large appetites for other reasons - medicines, medical conditions, and hormone imbalances caused by medical conditions and/or dieting. We still don't understand exactly how all these things come together to make a fat person - but we're learning more every day. And "let's blame ourselves for being fat" just doesn't seem constructive to me.
> 
> My two cents.
> 
> Why am I fat? Sleep apnea, which I have had from birth, and years of dieting (and forced starvation periods as a child).



BigBeautifulMe, I completely support what you wrote, especially the part: “And &#8216;let's blame ourselves for being fat’ just doesn't seem constructive to me.” Anybody who wants to listen to crap about the “terrible reasons why they are fat” and would like to post “I’m obese because”… has plenty of other places to do it outside of Dimensions. Just click on one of the links above, I can post more URLs for those who would like more variety.

Here is a list of the places where you can post "I'm obese because"... in a fat positive environment:

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/
http://www.naafa.org
That's pretty much where that list ends...

Maybe some of your arguments were a bit hypothetical BBMe, or didn’t pertain to many people’s situations, but as people professing to support size acceptance the folks here that flogged you the way that they did should be ashamed of themselves.

I’m proud of the rep I gave you for your post, because I’m proud of the post that you made BigBeautifulMe, and I'm proud of the others here who still believe in non-judgmental size acceptance.

Stan


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## tink977 (May 2, 2007)

I spent most of my life worried about my weight and skipped breakfast and lucnch from the age of 6 through college....that jjust made me fatter. I stay obese because it doesn't matter to me anymore and I am happy the way I am. I am active and my weight doesn't keep me from doing anything that I want to do...so why change?


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## LoveBHMS (May 2, 2007)

> CurvyEm, I don't think your intention for this thread was malicious, but there is an easily assumed implication that "wrong food choices" are what create the "horrors of obesity and poor health". There are plenty of thin people that make poor food choices and are in poor health because of it. As an FA I've endured a lifetime of low self-esteem based comments from women who I thought were beautiful and could be large and healthy if they would just stop making negative comments about their eating habits and whatever factor in their lives they blamed on making them fat. Maybe it's just the way you worded this thread that rubs me wrong. "I'm obese because" sounds like the first step of a confessional from Jenny Craig, or Weight Watchers. The next being how to "escape this prison of fat which I have surrounded myself with"... I'm bombarded with shit like this constantly from the media, from people at work, and from my wife's WLS group, trust me, it doesn't help my self-esteem as an FA. Nothing personal towards you Em, but that's why I don't like the tone of this thread.



I don't think anyone thought Em was being malicious. Furthermore, there are nine pages of posts in this thread, which indicates that many people thought it was a good idea. Em's experience and mindset are no more or less valuable then threads started by people who love eating, feel sexier at higher weights, or want to post pictures of themselves with their plus sized girlfriends. With all due respect, Stan, I don't think the purpose was to raise or lower anyone's self esteem, it was simply Em saying "here is how I look, here is why, and here is how I feel about it." Why that should anger you or BBM, I don't know. 

As far as the "easily assumed implication" regarding poor food choices and health, I don't think Em was making an "implication", she actually said flat out "I eat too much." Lots of other people said similar things. I don't know why this bothes you either. Em never said she spoke for everyone, and the thread was titled "Why are YOU obese" not "Let's all list reasons why we think others are obese." Every post started with the word "I". Saying that some people are obese because they eat junk food is simply true, as evidenced by some of the posts on the past nine pages. Is every obese person obese solely because of poor food choices? No. Is it a contributing factor in many cases? Yes. 

It is not a whole lot different from saying that some people who don't smoke get lung cancer, while some people smoke 4 packs a day for 50 years and don't get lung cancer. Both of those things are true, but it is also a proven scientific fact that smoking contributes to lung cancer.

The semantics of using words like "blame" or "fault" or "choice" all come down to pretty much the same thing. It is true that there are actions that people take each day that contribute to their size and health.


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## liz (di-va) (May 2, 2007)

Well, yuck.

The flavor and tenor of the original post, the way it's posited, is basically a version of how the rest of the world regards fatness: as a pure expression of will. _Fat is an extension of decision-making about food, nothing else, and is completely readable from the outside. You know exactly why and how someone is large just from looking at them. Fat people eat too much, thin people don't._ End of story.

The fact of the matter is that the most fat-phobic diet doctor in the world doesn't regard obesity in that overly simplistic light. It hasn't ever, isn't now, ever been that simple. At the very least, wouldn't this country look at lot different if it were all that straightforward?

It's _complicated_. People really are fat for a whole range of reasons, broken down a million ways to include eating habits, genetics, psychology, environment. I really really do know fat people who eat very healthy, balanced diets and exercise and STILL ARE FAT. It's not a mirage. And I really do know fat people who eat in ways that make more of a contribution to their size. 

But so what. Say the original supposition here were right...my question in this context is: THEN WHAT? So what? Say every single fat person were fat only because they were eating Ding Dongs under the covers at night and nothing else....then what? Are we supposed to lay ourselves out for flaggelation? Expire? Hide? Cease to exist? Cry in the public square? Because we no longer have a "reason" to support our existence--since we created it? Is that the only justification for acceptance, if size is completely out of our control?

I'm 40 years old, I'm not making "excuses" (to use the word in the original post) about anything around my size. I'm fat for a complicated set of reasons and....so what? So what? And what? The OP seems to be in love with personal determinism; I'm taking care of my size, take responsibility for how it exists--so then what do you care?

If this is how we respond internally--how do we respond to the rest of the world? The flavor of the OP isn't even as evolved as your basic Weight Watchers/Curves commercial, which throws in a dose of size acceptance with their diet talk.


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## TCUBOB (May 2, 2007)

I'm not sure I buy that....the thread asks why you are obese...we all used fat as shorthand for that. Fat can be healthy; obese is generally not accepted as healthy. So in that case, it is us (the posters) who made that faux paus. WE should have used either obese or size instead of fat. In that case, word choice may have mattered.

Or at least that's my impression. 



BigBellySSBBW said:


> Ok, I figured it out.
> 
> Last night, during sleep...it came to me.
> 
> ...


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## Isa (May 2, 2007)

BigBellySSBBW said:


> Ok, I figured it out.
> 
> Last night, during sleep...it came to me.
> 
> ...



But isn't that still just calling it something else and not being honest with ourselves? I can go there...the first 250 I'll blame on heredity but the rest is all on me. Personally being honest with myself just works better for me.

Now I'm about to be late for work and need to log off. Maybe I need to also post in the addicted to DIMS thread.


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## LillyBBBW (May 2, 2007)

Ryan said:


> I forgot to respond to this part earlier:
> 
> 
> 
> Based on what I've read, sleep apnea can be caused by _and be_ the cause of excessive weight. This is at least in part due to the fact that it's more difficult to exercise if you're tired all the time. If this is correct, then it seems to me that a good way to deal with any related weight gain would be to place a higher priority on fitness. For example; if the person suffering from sleep apnea has any energy left at the end of the work day he or she should make a point to exercise before participating in any other activities or social events. On days off, exercising should be the first thing the person does.



Yeah BBM. After a full day of hopping up and down on one leg, on your time off you should wrestle the fatigue and muster the intestinal fortitude to hop around on the other leg while us thin rested people sit around and berate you to victory. So simple.  OH! And don't forget your portion control cards. $39.95 for the beginner set, $79.95 for the full package with this handy tote bag and calorie counter pen thrown in absolutely free.


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## Emma (May 2, 2007)

BigBellySSBBW said:


> I was refferring to the OP. In the post it was said that the OP was tired of hearing excuses. I'm sorry, but that awakens defensiveness in me. Parents say that. "I'm sick of hearing excuses."



What I actually meant by "sick of hearing excuses" was when I hear people saying "oh i'm fat because of a medical disorder" then you see them eat lots of food. Granted a person can be overweight because of a medical disorder but I'm sure almost none cause a person to eat like 5000 calories a day.

Now I totally understand that lots of people have medical issues. I assume that the medical issues both cause people to gain weight and can be caused by people being overweight. 

I however, ignoring a slightly elevated testosterone level (which my doctor said is caused by me being over weight because the body acts like an oven which increases hormone levels), have no medical issues. My Father and his side of the family are fat and I could easily say it's my genes that make me fat. But then I remember that the whole side of that family eat a lot, and the ones who don't are the "lucky" ones who don't gain weight. 

I personally CAN lose weight. When I eat the right foods and take exercise I lose weight. But I don't always eat right. I love food, I hate to exercise. Damn, so far today (it's 3pm and I've been up since 10) I've eaten half a cheesecake and a bacon sandwich and still fancy some more food. 

I understand how its really hard to stop eating so much. But what I do wonder is; Do the people here who have medical issues eat a balanced diet and take exercise (if possible)? Even if people are predisposed to gaining weight if they wanted to lose weight would it be impossible if they ate right?


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## SamanthaNY (May 2, 2007)

liz (di-va) said:


> Well, yuck.
> 
> The flavor and tenor of the original post, the way it's posited, is basically a version of how the rest of the world regards fatness: as a pure expression of will. _Fat is an extension of decision-making about food, nothing else, and is completely readable from the outside. You know exactly why and how someone is large just from looking at them. Fat people eat too much, thin people don't._ End of story.
> 
> ...



An all-too-brief, shiny spot of brilliance. 

Thank you, Deevs.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (May 2, 2007)

CurvyEm said:


> What I actually meant by "sick of hearing excuses" was when I hear people saying "oh i'm fat because of a medical disorder" then you see them eat lots of food. Granted a person can be overweight because of a medical disorder but I'm sure almost none cause a person to eat like 5000 calories a day.




Well thats what I tried to say in my last post, but some people don't get it or "don't buy it" as it was put.

I will always be fat and that is not my fault. Being this size, yeah lots of it is my fault.

I'm always going to be overweight (fat), which is not my fault. (And that's what people aren't understanding) But I won't always be this size, which is lots of me eating rubbish. I just feel they are two different issues, at least for me.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (May 2, 2007)

TCUBOB said:


> I'm not sure I buy that....the thread asks why you are obese...we all used fat as shorthand for that. Fat can be healthy; obese is generally not accepted as healthy. So in that case, it is us (the posters) who made that faux paus. WE should have used either obese or size instead of fat. In that case, word choice may have mattered.
> 
> Or at least that's my impression.




Obese is almost as bad. the point I was trying to make was that even if I had ate 100% healthy all of my life, I would be fat by societies standards. Not my fault.

Being this size, ie gaining the last 150lbs, completely my fault. 

To me there is an assumption, by the word fat, that all excess must be my fault...and that I DON'T BUY!


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## LoveBHMS (May 2, 2007)

> The flavor of the OP isn't even as evolved as your basic Weight Watchers/Curves commercial, which throws in a dose of size acceptance with their diet talk.



I think this is really unfair. Em was simply stating _her own personal belief/observation_ regarding her body. I don't think she owes anyone an apology for that. As far as acceptance, the tone of her post does seem to say that she feels it's her business what choices she makes and how she looks. That sounds an awful lot like acceptance to me. Neither Em nor anyone else who responded owes it to anyone to tow some party line of Size Acceptance or to not offer up what is their own personal truth because it might make somebody uncomfortable or because it sounds bigoted. If Em or Friday do not have medical conditions that affect their size, then they just don't. Why can't they say so without coming under attack? Maybe for some people obesity is more complicated or their eating habits and exercise habits don't appear to correspond to their size, but those two ladies are saying "No. No medical condition. No genetics. Just food and exercise choices."



> Yeah BBM. After a full day of hopping up and down on one leg, on your time off you should wrestle the fatigue and muster the intestinal fortitude to hop around on the other leg while us thin rested people sit around and berate you to victory. So simple. OH! And don't forget your portion control cards. $39.95 for the beginner set, $79.95 for the full package with this handy tote bag and calorie counter pen thrown in absolutely free.



Ryan never said anything about hopping up and down or about Weight Watchers. He is mentioning (as somebody with a relative who suffers from sleep apnea) that exercise is a possibility for those with sleep apnea and suggesting that it is a good thing to do for one's health. I seriously doubt anyone is going to question the notion that exercising is generally a good thing to do heathwise. He never said "People that don't do it are terrible."


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## TCUBOB (May 2, 2007)

I don't think that Ryan was intending to be as critical as you may have taken him to be; I think he was just trying to be honest and unbiased and offer suggestions. Many of us struggle with the energy and time to exercise; I know that I do. At the end of the day, the last thing I want to do is go to the gym and get on that bike sometimes. But I make myself because I'll feel better and because I made a committment. Some people choose to work out in the mornings; not everyone has that option. Some people walk, or do yoga, or stretch, or breath or lift weights or do leg lifts or whatever; the bottom line, is that it's ok to be fat, but we should also aim to improve our fitness. 

Being fat, making poor eating choices and not working out IS a way to an early grave and DOES perpetuate the fat and lazy stereotype; being fat and fit with some physical activity and healthly nutrition belies the lie that all fat people are unhealthy blobs of goo who ride Rascals from buffet to buffet stuffing their face with deep-fried lard, to use one example of what one person said to me once when I asked them what "fat person" meant to them. 

Each of us must find our own way to balance what we can do and when we can do it. It's not easy, but neither is life.

If that makes sense. And it may not.

Bob

Originally Posted by Ryan 
I forgot to respond to this part earlier:



Based on what I've read, sleep apnea can be caused by and be the cause of excessive weight. This is at least in part due to the fact that it's more difficult to exercise if you're tired all the time. If this is correct, then it seems to me that a good way to deal with any related weight gain would be to place a higher priority on fitness. For example; if the person suffering from sleep apnea has any energy left at the end of the work day he or she should make a point to exercise before participating in any other activities or social events. On days off, exercising should be the first thing the person does. 

Originally posted by BBWLilly
Yeah BBM. After a full day of hopping up and down on one leg, on your time off you should wrestle the fatigue and muster the intestinal fortitude to hop around on the other leg while us thin rested people sit around and berate you to victory. So simple. OH! And don't forget your portion control cards. $39.95 for the beginner set, $79.95 for the full package with this handy tote bag and calorie counter pen thrown in absolutely free.


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## Emma (May 2, 2007)

I've seen a picture of you as a very young child BBSSBBW and to be honest I think it would be physically impossible for a child of that age to be so big without a medical problem of some sort. Is all the weight due to that though or partly due to what you eat/used to eat too?


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## Happy FA (May 2, 2007)

I wanted to add two comments to the post I made what seems eons ago in response to the request that we out ourselves on how we got to where we are weight wise.

1. While I often cross swords with BBMe on opinions(she holds her views with a fierceness which I admire), because I have my opinions and enjoy the back and forth of informed disagreement as a way to advance my own understanding and views, I am very unhappy with the way that her comments are attacked in an ad hominem fashion. Many of the commenters with righteous indignation appear to be more interested in shooting the messenger than message that they disagree with. I'm not a huge fan of the whole rep thing, though on occasion I do send a few as a vehicle to pass along a short private message(and yes, I know you can send private messages without the rep). However, I want to publicly rep BBMe for providing a detailed, cogent and even sardonically amusing sense of HER opinion on why she's as fat as she is and in general why getting fat is not a simple linear equation of eating X calories more than a body burns leading to Y pounds being added. The ferocity, meanness, venom and insulting "explanations" really dismays me. This Dimensions community is really the only place that it is safe for fat people to speak their minds and share thoughts related to their fatness. It is truly the big tent of the fat, fat accepting, fat admiring, size acceptance, feeder/feedee and fat fellow traveler groups. When this community is hijacked by strident voices that attack others the quality of the intercourse is cheapened, the exercise of free speech is chilled, the safety from the fat hating world and the sense of community lost. 

I don't ask for everyone to get along or love each other. Quite frankly I don't have to be friends with someone to have a discussion with them or enjoy their comments. What I do ask for is a return to civility and an end to the practice of picking apart a person's comments to attack the person. Picking apart a person's comments to disagree with their facts or their analysis or their conclusions is what discourse and dialogue is all about and good. Crossing the line to attacking the person isn't.

2. I was amused, though not surprised, that there was no one who was interested in my list of reasons why I've made it to the size I am. It represents my best insights on how I got to where I am. It includes many of the same points that were attacked in others' posts, but were ignored in mine. But, that's fine with me because I enjoyed putting together my list because it forced me to look at myself and think objectively on how I've gotten where I am, and that's one of the many really good things about this Dimensions world that we inhabit.

Not so happy Happy FA


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (May 2, 2007)

CurvyEm said:


> I've seen a picture of you as a very young child BBSSBBW and to be honest I think it would be physically impossible for a child of that age to be so big without a medical problem of some sort. Is all the weight due to that though or partly due to what you eat/used to eat too?



That's what Im saying, lol. I will always BE FAT, but lotsof it is my fault. It's just the wording that struck me.

Come on, we hang out, lol, I LOVE CHOCOLATE, you know I can eat like it's going out of fashion, and for that I take responsibility. I just feel that it is implied that I could be thin if I wanted to...and that makes me sad, cos I've always wanted to.

The word fat incompases such a wide range of sizes. Maybe this is my head issue. But I feel like people are taking the fat 3 year old in me and pointing a finger and saying why are you so fat? It's all your fault. Which has actually happened by parents etc. It just pushed a button, that's all.

I accept that I made poor choices to get to this size...never denied that. It's just I will always be fat due to genes etc and I don't think I should feel bad about that. But like you said, you know me, you've seen pics, you know how much I love Chocolate, lol, and I hope you get what I mean....I hope somebody does, lol.


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## LoveBHMS (May 2, 2007)

> This Dimensions community is really the only place that it is safe for fat people to speak their minds and share thoughts related to their fatness.



And that is just what Curvy Em was doing when she started the thread. And what you were doing in responding to it. My point was that Em has the same rights to express the fact that she does not have a medical condition and just eats junk food that BBM has to express that she has sleep apnea or Isa has to say that she's fat due to PCOS AND poor food choices. 

If you go back and read BBM's intial post, she criticized the thread's existence and also said that much of what had been posted upset her because it was not true for everyone, i.e. it wasn't ok for Em or Friday or Canonista to say their size was due to eating deep fried junk food because that didn't take into account genetics or medical conditions. And my point was that not everyone who is fat has a genetic predisposition to it or has PCOS or sleep apnea. It just is not the case.

Additionally, she responded to my defense of the OP's right to start the thread with sarcasm and flat out rudeness. The eye rolling emoticon, the explanation of what 'rhetorical' means, the insinuation that I didn't comprehend what she wrote...using those mechanisms of communication is a good way to get others to respond negatively.


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## swordchick (May 2, 2007)

I thought this topic was a good way to talk about why someone feels that they are obese, not a negative thing. I realize that other websites go on & on about body size and weight. But I do not understand why it is a bad thing to discuss this. 

I think Ryan was being real, even if it seems critical. I do not think it is. TCUBOB make a great point. I have iron deficiency anemia and sleep apnea. I'm so tired sometimes that I can't move. With those issues, I exercised five days a week. I hated it. There was never a day that I loved it. I do not exercise now and it is my fault.

I used to eat a lot. And it is the major reason why I am obese today. It doesn't hurt me emotionally to say it because it is true. It actually feels good to say it. I still love food, but my eating habits & appetite has changed.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (May 2, 2007)

CurvyEm said:


> What I actually meant by "sick of hearing excuses" was when I hear people saying "oh i'm fat because of a medical disorder" then you see them eat lots of food. Granted a person can be overweight because of a medical disorder but I'm sure almost none cause a person to eat like 5000 calories a day.
> 
> Now I totally understand that lots of people have medical issues. I assume that the medical issues both cause people to gain weight and can be caused by people being overweight.
> 
> ...



No I didn't always eat great and I do confess. I am working with my Dr though to monitor hormone levels in relation to weight loss, so hopefully I will be able to get down to 300 or so.

I am also one of the freaks that like activity. Notice I didn't say the E word, but I like playing basketball, football, badminton, volleyball and swimming. In high school I was active. I was on the track team and ran a mile everyday. I was 350 pounds at the start of the season and 340 and the end (bout 4-5 months) My body does not like to lose weight. During this same time in my life I was not eating breakfast or lunch and only focusing on dinner after track practice.

So here I am, doing the E word AND not eating much....and I didn't lose much weight. I do miss being that active, and that is what I strive for now...fittness. Who cares if I'm fat, I always will be. I just won't be THIS fat. 

I am not dumb. I don't think anyone is naturally 500pounds, lol, but I do think, in my situation, I am naturally above 200 pounds. I would struggle to get below 250, but I am doing my damnedest to give it a go.


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## Happy FA (May 2, 2007)

I think you doth protest too much.

1. BBMe's original post didn't say what you says it did. I had to go back and reread it. It sounded pretty much like her own private rant about what she thought and her opinions. She didn't attack anyone. No personal attack at all. Here it is in full.

I have to admit, this thread makes me a little...angry. Honestly, we hear more and more every day about alternate causes of obesity, and yet everyone outside of our community still thinks "If fat people were honest, they'd fess up that most of them are just fat because they don't have willpower." It angers me to find this attitude in our community as well. I think those gaining intentionally are in the minority of fat people. Often, those with large appetites have large appetites for other reasons - medicines, medical conditions, and hormone imbalances caused by medical conditions and/or dieting. We still don't understand exactly how all these things come together to make a fat person - but we're learning more every day. And "let's blame ourselves for being fat" just doesn't seem constructive to me.

My two cents.

Why am I fat? Sleep apnea, which I have had from birth, and years of dieting (and forced starvation periods as a child).
​2. She expressed why she was unhappy with the thread and provided an explanation why she felt that way. Then, she responded to the original point of the thread, how did she get to the weight she is.

3. I rest my case that the attacks, like yours, are ad hominem attacks on a person and not on their ideas. 

4. Please understand that you are doing the same thing that any number of others on the site have taken to doing. The only reason I responded to you is that you quoted the portion of my post related to Dimensions being a safe place for people and then proceeded to try and make it a non-safe place for one opinionated member. Other, less opinionated and strong individuals will get the message that if you wade in with your real opinion someone will attack you and twist your statements to their own agendas regardless of what you say. This has the effect of reducing the number of participants, the freeness with which they express themselves and retards the richness of opinions and expressions that our fat, fat admiring and fat accepting community has to offer.


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## LillyBBBW (May 2, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> Ryan never said anything about hopping up and down or about Weight Watchers. He is mentioning (as somebody with a relative who suffers from sleep apnea) that exercise is a possibility for those with sleep apnea and suggesting that it is a good thing to do for one's health. *I seriously doubt anyone is going to question the notion that exercising is generally a good thing to do heathwise.* He never said "People that don't do it are terrible."



As a person with both sleep apnea and a full gym membership I can assure you that that is NOT true. These are from my own observations about my own body in conjunction with a Doctor with 15 years experience behind her. The idea that a person with sleep apnea can comfortably add on regular activity to their already exhaustive daily lifestyle is laughable. The muscle spasms, dizziness and heart palpitations would be clear warning that the exercise is of no value and surely no reputable health care professional will claim otherwise. You and Ryan are generalizing which is a dangerous thing to do in regards to people's health. There are many instances where exercise would be detrimental to a person's health, especially when dealing with the obese. This is why every exercise regimine comes with a warning label: "Please do not engage in any exercise program without consulting with your Doctor first." That's legal speak for "This might not be good for you."


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## Jon Blaze (May 2, 2007)

liz (di-va) said:


> Well, yuck.
> 
> The flavor and tenor of the original post, the way it's posited, is basically a version of how the rest of the world regards fatness: as a pure expression of will. _Fat is an extension of decision-making about food, nothing else, and is completely readable from the outside. You know exactly why and how someone is large just from looking at them. Fat people eat too much, thin people don't._ End of story.
> 
> ...



Marry me?? :wubu: 

Liz is right. Whether a large of number of larger people get the way they are because of food/lack of physical activity, the simple fact that it is different for everyone makes it too difficult to pinpoint it on one or two things just because you or someone else got where you are because of those reasons.

That's why profiling is wrong. Most people in society simply go by the weight (To include foolish physicians) without looking at other cues that are more accurate such as the emotional tie the person in question has with food, questions about lifestyle (People would rather look at rolls than ask "Do you eat healthy? Do you exercise?"), Questions about history ("Does Obesity run in your family?"), et cetera...It's different for everyone.

Waxwing was right too: As long as things other than food and/or lack of exercise are included, it is ok. We should be expressing our opinions, but generalizing an entire group of people as being heavier due to food/lack of exercise? I don't know about that being accurate.


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## eightyseven (May 2, 2007)

I can't possibly bring myself to read back to follow the mini-dramas and discussions within this thread... but I'm going to post anyway.

First of all... why the word "obese?" I'm sure it's been discussed already, but I'll throw it out there that I'm just not a fan. I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't use it... it just doesn't appeal to me as a word and the associations people make with it. Fat isn't much better, but at least it's more... pleasant? I don't know. Not a big deal, really.

Why am I fat? Well I guess I can go back to my early childhood... I had major thyroid issues that put me in the hospital several times and really screwed with my metabolism. Nothing I can really do about that. Second, I enjoy food and I tend to eat until satisfied... which means I'm generally consuming a substantial amount of food when I do eat, and I'm a self-admitted boredom eater so I'm eating more times during the day than is probably recommended. I've had pressure from my mother my entire life, since she is a "health freak"... despite her habits having been very unhealthy but that's beyond the point. More lately... I've had issues with my tonsils obstructing my air passage when I sleep, so I've been having apneatic activity which will hopefully be gone after my recovery from the tonsilectomy I had last week. I'd love to be able to exercise and play tennis again without feeling exhausted all the time. There are so many factors.


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## Happy FA (May 2, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> As a person with both sleep apnea and a full gym membership I can assure you that that is NOT true. These are from my own observations about my own body in conjunction with a Doctor with 15 years experience behind her. The idea that a person with sleep apnea can comfortably add on regular activity to their already exhaustive daily lifestyle is laughable. The muscle spasms, dizziness and heart palpitations would be clear warning that the exercise is of no value and surely no reputable health care professional will claim otherwise. You and Ryan are generalizing which is a dangerous thing to do in regards to people's health. There are many instances where exercise would be detrimental to a person's health, especially when dealing with the obese. This is why every exercise regimine comes with a warning label: "Please do not engage in any exercise program without consulting with your Doctor first." That's legal speak for "This might not be good for you."


 

I will add my experience to that of Lilly's with respect to sleep apnea and exercise. 

When I was diagnosed with sleep apnea I complained to the doctor that I just couldn't motivate myself to get to the gym and believed that my lack of exercise was a contributing factor to how I felt and the weight I'd gained. 

He looked at me, laughed and then finally responded. He said, "there's no way you can ask your body to do additional physical activity like going to the gym and exercising in its current sleep deprived state. When you sit down for any period of time you fall asleep. That's your body's way of sending you a call for help. Your body needs restful sleep so it can function properly. If you want to exercise get the apnea treated and then start the exercise. Going to the gym before you treat the sleep apnea will just stress your body even more and cause it to break down."

And, he was right. About 2-3 weeks after I started with a CPAP I ventured into the gym and it was good for me. Still is good for me.

Now the severity of apnea on people and the degree to which their bodies are able to handle exercise when untreated varies, but it very hard for someone who hasn't experienced how untreated sleep apnea robs one of energy, focus and clarity of thought and wears down one's body to understand how debilitating it really is. 

And the comments that have been made about eating to stay awake when you have sleep apnea were completely on point for me. I used to eat almost every half hour or so in the evenings because the sugar rush of eating fought the incredible exhaustion I felt. And, if you ask, why didn't you just go to sleep when you were tired, good question. The answer, because if I went to sleep early I would just wake up tired no matter how long I slept.

I'm excited that Lilly has now gotten treatment for her sleep apnea. She's on the cusp of the treatment, so she has a particularly up close view of how bad it can be when you have untreated sleep apnea.


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## Tina (May 2, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> As a person with both sleep apnea and a full gym membership I can assure you that that is NOT true. These are from my own observations about my own body in conjunction with a Doctor with 15 years experience behind her. The idea that a person with sleep apnea can comfortably add on regular activity to their already exhaustive daily lifestyle is laughable. The muscle spasms, dizziness and heart palpitations would be clear warning that the exercise is of no value and surely no reputable health care professional will claim otherwise. You and Ryan are generalizing which is a dangerous thing to do in regards to people's health. There are many instances where exercise would be detrimental to a person's health, especially when dealing with the obese. This is why every exercise regimine comes with a warning label: "Please do not engage in any exercise program without consulting with your Doctor first." That's legal speak for "This might not be good for you."


It's true for those with chronic fatigue and fibro, too. Sometimes exercising can be counterproductive. That's why I suggested the ayurvedic breathing and stretching. It's non-weight-bearing (can be done in a chair), is not exhausting, but as a matter of fact, it oxygenates the body and gives energy. 

When I first started doing it, I could only do it for five minutes, but I found that it gave me enough energy that I was able to increase regularly, and was able to buld up, over time, to a longer workout. But if you have a condition that results in a lower oxygen saturation, it's going to cause all kinds of problems like what you have listed. Getting oxygen into the cells helps to counteract that and it can revive a person. I don't do it as much as I should, but when I do I always feel better, without exception. My mentioning it was meant to help, not preach, because it's not something that will wear a body out, but conversely, it gives energy without making the person feel like they're going to keel over like regular exercising can.

I also believe there is a difference between blaming oneself (which I hate to see and I do see some in this thread), and just telling it like it is. For me, like with others, as I said earlier, it's very complex. I think that when one hits the supersizes it's rare that people gained weight simply through eating. There was likely something going on that already made them fat before then (like maybe that genetic switch, or apnea, or a bunch of other things), but then when you have a body that likes to be fat, all it can take is eating a bunch of crap regularly, or just eating more than one's body can handle without gaining weight, and there you go.

To me, there is nothing wrong with discussing why we are fat; the only problem about it comes in when there is self-blame (I don't see anyone blaming others, and besides, most of us are harder on ourselves than anyone else could ever be on us).


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## TCUBOB (May 2, 2007)

I don't think that anyone said anything about what kind or level of exercise or activity, and yes, obviously, if you have a health condition you should see a doctor before you make radical changes to your lifestyle (though I hate doctors and I didn't and I'm not dead yet!).....but anyone can add a 20 minute walk at the end or beginning of the day or some 3 or 5 lb. weights or some light stretching or deep breathing or things of that nature without risk or fear, I would say and it WOULD be of value. I'm not sure that exercise is detremental to the obese.....just some TYPES of exercise. Anyone can add activity without risk. At least I think they can. But I'm willing to be told that I'm wrong. I may well be.



LillyBBBW said:


> As a person with both sleep apnea and a full gym membership I can assure you that that is NOT true. These are from my own observations about my own body in conjunction with a Doctor with 15 years experience behind her. The idea that a person with sleep apnea can comfortably add on regular activity to their already exhaustive daily lifestyle is laughable. The muscle spasms, dizziness and heart palpitations would be clear warning that the exercise is of no value and surely no reputable health care professional will claim otherwise. You and Ryan are generalizing which is a dangerous thing to do in regards to people's health. There are many instances where exercise would be detrimental to a person's health, especially when dealing with the obese. This is why every exercise regimine comes with a warning label: "Please do not engage in any exercise program without consulting with your Doctor first." That's legal speak for "This might not be good for you."


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## LillyBBBW (May 2, 2007)

Tina said:


> It's true for those with chronic fatigue and fibro, too. Sometimes exercising can be counterproductive. That's why I suggested the ayurvedic breathing and stretching. It's non-weight-bearing (can be done in a chair), is not exhausting, but as a matter of fact, it oxygenates the body and gives energy.
> 
> When I first started doing it, I could only do it for five minutes, but I found that it gave me enough energy that I was able to increase regularly, and was able to buld up, over time, to a longer workout. But if you have a condition that results in a lower oxygen saturation, it's going to cause all kinds of problems like what you have listed. Getting oxygen into the cells helps to counteract that and it can revive a person. I don't do it as much as I should, but when I do I always feel better, without exception. My mentioning it was meant to help, not preach, because it's not something that will wear a body out, but conversely, it gives energy without making the person feel like they're going to keel over like regular exercising can.
> 
> ...



I agree Tina. Before I was diagnosed with sleep apnea I joined the gym as a means to combat what I thought was fatigue due to lack of physical activity. While it felt good in some respects it worsened my sleepiness and at one point I watched the heart monitor on the treadmill climb up to unbelievable numbers to the point where it frightened me and I had to stop, and I was only walking briskly on it. I knew then that something was seriously wrong. Same when a few years ago I had blood clots in my lungs. People told me that my shortness of breath was due to lack of exercise and that I needed to lose some weight. Thank God I didn't listen to them or I would be dead right now.

The problem I have with this discussion is the tone that it speaks to people who are naturally fat. Case in point, My cubicle mate has frizzy hair because she did a home perm and color and fried up her hair. MY hair is naturally frizzy but I straighten it with a chemical every 6 to 8 weeks, I roller set it once a week and wrap it every night - when I have time. Most times it goes in a ponytail or I leave it frazzled and wrap it in a headwrap claiming afrocentric roots. The office Librarian has frizzy hair because she believes in going natural and won't let a chemical near her hair. She wears afros, braids, dreds, all kinds of nifty styles that I don't have the patience to bother with myself. If someone said, "Why do YOU have nappy hair?" she would be highly offended and I don't blame her for getting angry and I would fully support her on this. I'm not saying nobody should talk about their issues but there's a right way and a wrong way to do it without slapping people in the face.


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## Tina (May 2, 2007)

Lilly, thanks for your post, dear woman. I do totally see your point, and can see why some would be offended; but I guess it's not how I have taken it, personally. 

I have to say that while I can see some of the negativity that some people see in Em's OP, I am a naturally curious person and I find it interesting to see the answers -- at least the ones where people don't blame themselves. I find blame has no place in this discussion. It is why I see a big difference between matter of factly taking responsibility and blaming oneself. To me, there is value in the discussion for many reasons. I guess I like seeing an actual thread where people are being asked why they are fat, instead of the usual thread on the usual board where people preach about why fat people are fat (you know, those awful "others"), and it always follows stereotypical, blaming, hateful paths. Maybe this makes me weird, but I think that if the discussion can be had without blame (and obviously that is a very personal thing, because while one person doesn't see blame another does), I think that there is the possibility to learn more about ourselves through enlightened posts of others. 

I think that's one of the things I like best about these boards.


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## SamanthaNY (May 2, 2007)

Happy FA said:


> 4. Please understand that you are doing the same thing that any number of others on the site have taken to doing. The only reason I responded to you is that you quoted the portion of my post related to Dimensions being a safe place for people and then proceeded to try and make it a non-safe place for one opinionated member. Other, less opinionated and strong individuals will get the message that if you wade in with your real opinion someone will attack you and twist your statements to their own agendas regardless of what you say. This has the effect of reducing the number of participants, the freeness with which they express themselves and retards the richness of opinions and expressions that our fat, fat admiring and fat accepting community has to offer.



I'm confused by this - you're saying that LovesBHMs (I think that's how this was directed to?) is somehow hindering people from having and expressing opinions, and she should stop that - but isn't that then a case of YOU hindering _her_? If people become afraid to express opinions here... because other people will express _their _opinions about it, then it seems to me it's a case of the chicken-and-the-egg question.

I can see that things got a little heated throughout this thread - but we have the mods to keep it in check when things going awry. I think if we otherwise tell eachother that one person's opinion is valued and accepted, but another person's (whether it be due to style or content) isn't... then it becomes an 'unsafe' place for everybody.



Tina said:


> That's why I suggested the ayurvedic breathing and stretching. It's non-weight-bearing (can be done in a chair), is not exhausting, but as a matter of fact, it oxygenates the body and gives energy.
> 
> When I first started doing it, I could only do it for five minutes, but I found that it gave me enough energy that I was able to increase regularly, and was able to buld up, over time, to a longer workout. But if you have a condition that results in a lower oxygen saturation, it's going to cause all kinds of problems like what you have listed. Getting oxygen into the cells helps to counteract that and it can revive a person. I don't do it as much as I should, but when I do I always feel better, without exception. My mentioning it was meant to help, not preach, because it's not something that will wear a body out, but conversely, it gives energy without making the person feel like they're going to keel over like regular exercising can.



Tea, could you elaborate on this ayurvedic breathing and stretching stuff? I can't seem to find the other post where you referenced it, but I'd also like some more information. Could you point me to an instructional website, or better yet - perhaps start an exercise thread about it (cuz, I know you just have SO much free time, right?)... if you're interested, that is. Any help would be presheeated! 

Could I be more off-topic? Srry.


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## stan_der_man (May 2, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> ....
> As far as the "easily assumed implication" regarding poor food choices and health, I don't think Em was making an "implication", she actually said flat out "I eat too much." Lots of other people said similar things. I don't know why this bothes you either. Em never said she spoke for everyone, and the thread was titled "Why are YOU obese" not "Let's all list reasons why we think others are obese." Every post started with the word "I". Saying that some people are obese because they eat junk food is simply true, as evidenced by some of the posts on the past nine pages. Is every obese person obese solely because of poor food choices? No. Is it a contributing factor in many cases? Yes.
> ....



My point wasn't that Em was "implicating" poor food choices. There is an ocean of websites and blogs out there that implicate this and having a thread that is phrased like this "Why are YOU obese" or "I'm obese because" reinforces all of the stereotypes that these websites are implicating, or at very least mimics those websites. This is exactly what the size acceptance movement is trying to counter. The list of URLs that I posted were a direct quote of "I'm obese because", and the following statements that started with those words were nothing positive about being obese. Slightly change the order of these words, and the number of URLs with negative connotations about being obese becomes exponentially longer. I'm sure everyone here has seen plenty of this. In one of those URLs a guy wrote that he was "suicidal because of his obesity". That's how serious this gets. I actually don't have a problem with the word "obese"either, just the context in which it's always used.

Also, your point that:


> ... she actually said flat out "I eat too much." Lots of other people said similar things. I don't know why this bothes you either.
> ...


My question to you LoveBHMS is this... What is "eating too much"? By typical AMA standards, body builders "eat too much". 1000 calories per day? 2000 calories per day? If you are obese and healthy (how often do you see those words put together..?) does that mean you are "eating too much"? The tone of this thread, perhaps not the literal statements just re-enforce all of the predjudices that size acceptance trys to counter. Do many people on the Dims boards eat a lot? Maybe, so what? I'm the last person in the world that want's to be a politically correct "phrase nazi", but as you can see the tone of this thread has stirred up all of the muck that fat people and FAs have to deal with every single day. There are better ways that this thread could have been phrased. Arguably, this thread is basically just another "Weight Board Confessional", which is one example of how this could be better phrased.

I can not emphasize this more CurvyEm, I don't mean anything personal towards you! I think you are a wonderful gal, you post all sorts of great things. Maybe, this is actually a good thread insofar as it brings up a lot of issues that people here should be exposed to or reminded of?

Just my opinion...

Stan


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## LoveBHMS (May 2, 2007)

> My question to you LoveBHMS is this... What is "eating too much"? By typical AMA standards, body builders "eat too much". 1000 calories per day? 2000 calories per day? If you are obese and healthy (how often do you see those words put together..?) does that mean you are "eating too much"? The tone of this thread, perhaps not the literal statements just re-enforce all of the predjudices that size acceptance trys to counter. Do many people on the Dims boards eat a lot? Maybe, so what? I'm the last person in the world that want's to be a politically correct "phrase nazi", but as you can see the tone of this thread has stirred up all of the muck that fat people and FAs have to deal with every single day. There are better ways that this thread could have been phrased. Arguably, this thread is basically just another "Weight Board Confessional", which is one example of how this could be better phrased.
> 
> I can not emphasize this more CurvyEm, I don't mean anything personal towards you! I think you are a wonderful gal, you post all sorts of great things. Maybe, this is actually a good thread insofar as it brings up a lot of issues that people here should be exposed to or reminded of?
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

See this is exactly my point. I, personally, did not make any call as to what constituted "too much" as that obviously differs for each person. What I did was quoted what Em had said about herself. I did not and do not know what is the right amount for anyone beyond myself (and, like, maybe one other person) to consume. I assume what Em meant was that she eats "too much" to have a lower body weight. But I do not understand why her, and others, stating that they believe that their size is a result of food choices is a problem. 

Is it true that somebody could eat the same amount of food that Em does and have a lower weight? Sure. But that is not the point. Em was saying what was true *for her.* I've seen plenty of people with sleep apnea who are not fat, that does not mean it's not true for BBM. I know women with PCOS who are average weight, that does not mean that it does not contribute to other women being fat. John Blaze has posted about eating fast food and being thin, so that combination of eating and body type is true for him. I think all anyone did in response to the OP was to think about *his or her own body size* and respond accordingly. Not one person said "Here is what causes me to be a certain size AND I bet everyone else is in the same set circumstances."


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## Tina (May 2, 2007)

SamanthaNY said:


> Tea, could you elaborate on this ayurvedic breathing and stretching stuff? I can't seem to find the other post where you referenced it, but I'd also like some more information. Could you point me to an instructional website, or better yet - perhaps start an exercise thread about it (cuz, I know you just have SO much free time, right?)... if you're interested, that is. Any help would be presheeated!



Sure, Sammie. I have to leave soon, so don't have a lot of time to elaborate, but I started with some exercises promoted by Dr. Andrew Weil. You can see a bit about it on this page. Scroll down to BREATHING: THE MASTER KEY TO SELF-HEALING.

From there, I started this program, only the older one. Now, I didn't do the diet or get any of the other equipment or anything else, just two videotapes. Now they're on DVD and have lots of other stuff with it, but for me, the breathing and stretching exercises were the key to feeling better. I will say that the woman in it is EXTREMELY irritating and is no fan of fat, BUT the exercises helped me greatly. I often rolled my eyes, told her to STFU and kept learning the routine. I adapted the exercises and did as many as I could seated in a chair, and the ones that I couldn't do I just didn't do. I did what I could when I could and for as long as I could. I built up.

The first tape had her inane chattering on it along with instructions. The second tape was just the exercises only, and I found it was important to get to know the exercises on the first one before moving to the second.

Anyway, what it is is basically breathing in forcefully through the nose, holding the breath and stretching in whatever manner the exercise is, for the count of 7, and then exhaling with force. It totally empties the lungs and replaces stale air and carbon monoxide with oxygen. The first two exercises look hilariously bad, but I'm telling you, they made such a difference for me, because without any energy at all, there is no will and apathy takes over. This workout gave me energy. Now when I do the workout it's usually for about half an hour and then I lift weights, and sometimes use my ski walking poles. But it took me a good while to build up to this and I never could have done a whole workout even without the weights and walking before starting this. 

All of this is theoretical right now, because I haven't gotten back to it since before my last surgery. I'm building up to it, though, and will be starting again this weekend. Sometimes, I'm my worst enemy and don't do what I know will make me feel better and more energetic. For those who need more energy, I also am getting vitamin B-12 shots monthly, and they help a bit, too.

Enough babbling now.


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## SamanthaNY (May 2, 2007)

thank you thank you thank you!


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## TheSadeianLinguist (May 2, 2007)

1) How did you become interested in this, Tina?

2) Ever consider writing an adapted version of her exercises?


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## LillyBBBW (May 2, 2007)

TCUBOB said:


> I don't think that anyone said anything about what kind or level of exercise or activity, and yes, obviously, if you have a health condition you should see a doctor before you make radical changes to your lifestyle (though I hate doctors and I didn't and I'm not dead yet!).....but anyone can add a 20 minute walk at the end or beginning of the day or some 3 or 5 lb. weights or some light stretching or deep breathing or things of that nature without risk or fear, I would say and it WOULD be of value. I'm not sure that exercise is detremental to the obese.....just some TYPES of exercise. Anyone can add activity without risk. At least I think they can. But I'm willing to be told that I'm wrong. I may well be.



That would be a completely logical assumption, at least I thought so. I thought if I just took it slow and rested when I felt fatigued I would be ok and slowly improve naturally which in general is top notch advice but it is not always the case. I've only been exposed to three instances where I've been told that exercise or anything strenuous should be avoided completely so my understanding is limited to those. Reggie Lewis dropped dead from heart failure by taking it easy and dribbling a basketball standing still and he was a top athlete in the best shape of his life. I still maintain a healthy dose of skepticism. I doubt there are scores of people walking around as timebombs to drop dead at the first trot but if someone says they have a medical condition where exercise would not be beneficial I know enough now to take them seriously.


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## Tina (May 2, 2007)

I became interested because it was either kill myself or lose weight. I hear what you've said, Stan, but my life was physical pain 24/7, with literallly no let-up. I had to use a cane and walker, and had just received a wheelchair. I could only shop in stores with mobility carts, and they had just only been starting to be used, thank goodness. Before that, trips to departments stores, etc. were out of the question. I would walk to my car with my son, a short walk from my apartment, and be totally out of breath. He would look at me with fear and worry in his eyes and on his face. At 450 lbs every single thing in my life was so hard that I wanted to give up. A simple shower was torture. The chronic fatigue and fibro was so bad I would sometimes just cry because I couldn't move from the pain and exhaustion. My life had become very small -- about the size of my tiny bedroom, or "cell" as I called it. I won't go into the really ugly details, but at some point I realized I was either going to get on with the business of living or dying, because something had to give.

I didn't diet, but decided to change the way I ate, and I figured that breathing shouldn't be too hard. Even that I could only do for five minutes. Because of the cfids and fibro, everything had to be a very slow start and building up, because even now if I do too much I pay for it dearly with pain and the ability to do less for sometimes days.

Yes, I've considered writing an adapted version, Casey. I'm actually supposed to make a little video with my digital camera for a friend, and that has made me wonder if I shouldn't make a better video and distribute it. I've learned a lot in the three years I have been doing this, and one of the most important things I've learned is that the hardest mountain to climb are the ones of my own making, and if I can get over myself, I do okay. I cannot, however, always get over myself with consistency. 

Gonna go now, I'm going to go to my baby sister's house. She is getting married a month after me and I'm going to teach her how to make her wedding flowers -- we're both using silk flowers. Fun!


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## James (May 2, 2007)

its just an observation... a minor point perhaps...? but the word "fault" and "blame" have been used quite a lot in this thread. Aren't those words a bit out of place here? They are defensive and almost come across as if the posters are confessing guilt or feel on trial. Wouldnt it be better perhaps (just a suggestion) to be using words like "because"...?


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## LoveBHMS (May 2, 2007)

as I have said throughout this thread, the purpose was clearly for each poster to discuss why s/he is the size that s/he is. 

I don't think it's necessary or helpful or even "accepting" to censor the words that are used in a personal statement. 

We don't know, and can't judge, how somebody feels about their size. Maybe one poster is all like "I'm fat and fabulous because I love KFC and the world can go screw itself b/c I love how I look and how I live my life" and another one says "I am not happy at my current size and want to change it. In starting to do that, I need to look at how I got to this size. I know there were actions I took or choices I made that lead to this." In the second instance, if somebody chooses to use words like "fault" or "blame" that is their right if those words are in line with how that person feels.


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## James (May 2, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> as I have said throughout this thread, the purpose was clearly for each poster to discuss why s/he is the size that s/he is.
> 
> I don't think it's necessary or helpful or even "accepting" to censor the words that are used in a personal statement.
> 
> We don't know, and can't judge, how somebody feels about their size. Maybe one poster is all like "I'm fat and fabulous because I love KFC and the world can go screw itself b/c I love how I look and how I live my life" and another one says "I am not happy at my current size and want to change it. In starting to do that, I need to look at how I got to this size. I know there were actions I took or choices I made that lead to this." In the second instance, if somebody chooses to use words like "fault" or "blame" that is their right if those words are in line with how that person feels.



sure ok  (fair) point taken. I guess my observation was more that a defensive, confessional language seemed a little negative for here...


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## Emma (May 2, 2007)

eightyseven said:


> I can't possibly bring myself to read back to follow the mini-dramas and discussions within this thread... but I'm going to post anyway.
> 
> First of all... why the word "obese?" I'm sure it's been discussed already, but I'll throw it out there that I'm just not a fan. I'm not saying you can't or shouldn't use it... it just doesn't appeal to me as a word and the associations people make with it. Fat isn't much better, but at least it's more... pleasant? I don't know. Not a big deal, really.



Well I did have a hard time deciding between obese and fat. Then I decided to go with the word obese. Not too sure why though


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## Zandoz (May 2, 2007)

Tina said:


> my life was physical pain 24/7, with literallly no let-up. I had to use a cane and walker, and had just received a wheelchair. I could only shop in stores with mobility carts, and they had just only been starting to be used, thank goodness. Before that, trips to departments stores, etc. were out of the question. I would walk to my car with my son, a short walk from my apartment, and be totally out of breath. He would look at me with fear and worry in his eyes and on his face. At 450 lbs every single thing in my life was so hard that I wanted to give up. A simple shower was torture.



Sounds familiar...with no wheel chair


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## FaxMachine1234 (May 2, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> as I have said throughout this thread, the purpose was clearly for each poster to discuss why s/he is the size that s/he is.
> 
> I don't think it's necessary or helpful or even "accepting" to censor the words that are used in a personal statement.
> 
> We don't know, and can't judge, how somebody feels about their size. Maybe one poster is all like "I'm fat and fabulous because I love KFC and the world can go screw itself b/c I love how I look and how I live my life" and another one says "I am not happy at my current size and want to change it. In starting to do that, I need to look at how I got to this size. I know there were actions I took or choices I made that lead to this." In the second instance, if somebody chooses to use words like "fault" or "blame" that is their right if those words are in line with how that person feels.



That's kind of how I feel. I think the discussion in this thread has been fascinating, and touched on issues that were undoubtedly not intended by CurvyEm when she started it, but I think the overall tone has been vastly unfair to her attempt to try to tackle a sensitive (to some) issue.

There are two types of threads on a board like this: questionaires and discussion. In the latter, posters introduce arguments, and other posters may counter those arguments and add their own (I got into a brouhaha mistaking a simple "praising" type of thread with this one last month). In the former, each of the posters says what's on their mind about themselves, and generally there's no need for debate amongst each other because each person's answer is individualistic.

While I'm not going to say the people who've posted in opposition to Em's OP didn't have the right to do so (it's a free country, and their thoughts have been mostly very well-put), it all just seems so unneccessary. 

This thread was started to encourage some kind of cartharsis (if that's the right word) in terms of why people are the weight that they are, and came in with an admirable "no holds barred" kind of attitude. If you see this and don't like the question, why come in and throw a wrench into the works when you don't have to respond at all? Most people took the right tact in talking about themselves, but then other people come in and say they're "generalizing" about all fat people...by talking about themselves, and not falsely claiming they have a genetic problem just because some other fat people have one? That kind of accusion perpetuates the stereotype that all people who are overweight and obese can be lumped into a single category as much as all the anti-fat people in the "outside world" do.

I've become wary of sticking my neck out too far here recently, but a lot of insinuations are flying around in this thread, and that's never good for brotherly love and all that stuff.


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## LillyBBBW (May 2, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> as I have said throughout this thread, the purpose was clearly for each poster to discuss why s/he is the size that s/he is.
> 
> I don't think it's necessary or helpful or even "accepting" to censor the words that are used in a personal statement.
> 
> We don't know, and can't judge, how somebody feels about their size. Maybe one poster is all like "I'm fat and fabulous because I love KFC and the world can go screw itself b/c I love how I look and how I live my life" and another one says "I am not happy at my current size and want to change it. In starting to do that, I need to look at how I got to this size. I know there were actions I took or choices I made that lead to this." In the second instance, if somebody chooses to use words like "fault" or "blame" that is their right if those words are in line with how that person feels.



"Don't share your opinion, it's censorship," is an oxymoron. There are plenty of wonderful discussion threads where I would have rather not dealt with the dissonant voices of dissenters but this is a discussion board where people are free to express their opinions even if they're not validating.


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## Forgotten_Futures (May 2, 2007)

Tina said:


> carbon monoxide


 
Sorry to be picky, but, carbon DIoxide. If you've got straight CO in your lungs for any period of time, you're probably not going to be breathing either direction anytime soon. CO is lethally poisonous.


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## Waxwing (May 2, 2007)

Happy FA said:


> Other, less opinionated and strong individuals will get the message that if you wade in with your real opinion someone will attack you and twist your statements to their own agendas regardless of what you say. This has the effect of reducing the number of participants, the freeness with which they express themselves and retards the richness of opinions and expressions that our fat, fat admiring and fat accepting community has to offer.


 
I see your point. You mean like what you're doing. Roger that. 

The reason that this community succeeds is that we can discuss things openly, sometimes with anger, but not (as you claimed) personal attacks. I've learned an enormous amount in 11 pages and feel lucky to be exposed to such differing but eloquent opinions. 

You may not be trying to censor your fellow posters, but that's how it comes across. There's nothing wrong with argument, heated or not. That's how we explore topics. That's how we relate sometimes. If it bothers you, well, that's absolutely your right, but people are free to express themselves however they wish, as long as it doesn't violate the rules of the board. To my knowledge it has not done so.

Don't try to "reduce...the freeness with which [we] express [ourselves]", and we'll extend you the same courtesy.


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## lipmixgirl (May 2, 2007)

i have been morbidly obese all my life... i am the same size since 8th grade... 

the big apple has spoken...
::exeunt:: :bow:


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## Green Eyed Fairy (May 2, 2007)

LillyBBBW said:


> I agree Tina. Before I was diagnosed with sleep apnea I joined the gym as a means to combat what I thought was fatigue due to lack of physical activity. While it felt good in some respects it worsened my sleepiness and at one point I watched the heart monitor on the treadmill climb up to unbelievable numbers to the point where it frightened me and I had to stop, and I was only walking briskly on it. I knew then that something was seriously wrong. Same when a few years ago I had blood clots in my lungs. People told me that my shortness of breath was due to lack of exercise and that I needed to lose some weight. Thank God I didn't listen to them or I would be dead right now.
> 
> The problem I have with this discussion is the tone that it speaks to people who are naturally fat. Case in point, My cubicle mate has frizzy hair because she did a home perm and color and fried up her hair. MY hair is naturally frizzy but I straighten it with a chemical every 6 to 8 weeks, I roller set it once a week and wrap it every night - when I have time. Most times it goes in a ponytail or I leave it frazzled and wrap it in a headwrap claiming afrocentric roots. The office Librarian has frizzy hair because she believes in going natural and won't let a chemical near her hair. She wears afros, braids, dreds, all kinds of nifty styles that I don't have the patience to bother with myself. If someone said, "Why do YOU have nappy hair?" she would be highly offended and I don't blame her for getting angry and I would fully support her on this. I'm not saying nobody should talk about their issues but there's a right way and a wrong way to do it without slapping people in the face.



Good post, as usual


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## kerrypop (May 2, 2007)

Hmm.. I was never a twig, but when I was a little kerry, I was not overweight at all. Then when I was six I came down with arthritis and was bedridden for.. oh.. a month. When moving became a chore, I became chubby. Exercise sucks and hurts and is lame! BUT- I could make better choices as to what and how much I eat... compensating for the fact that I don't move as much as I should I suppose.. .but where's the fun in that? Plus, I LIKE being a chubby cuddlepod. 

and... that pretty much sums it up.


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## Tina (May 2, 2007)

Forgotten_Futures said:


> Sorry to be picky, but, carbon DIoxide. If you've got straight CO in your lungs for any period of time, you're probably not going to be breathing either direction anytime soon. CO is lethally poisonous.


Absolutely and thank you. That's what I get for posting when I'm in a hurry to go somewhere. 

Kerry, that must have been very difficult for the cute, little kerry, having arthritis and that kind of pain at such a young age. Big hugs to little kerry. 



Zandoz said:


> Sounds familiar...with no wheel chair



Z, I'm sorry you're going through that.


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## Luvs2laff (May 2, 2007)

Rebecca said:


> one question, directed at no one in particular...
> 
> How the hell can it really be 'okay' to be fat, if it isn't okay how we got there--however we got there? Because it's one in the same. I don't want to have size acceptance ONLY if I'm not fat because of something I did. Or only if I am fat because of something I did. I'd seriously hope that SA lent itself to people of size however they got there.
> 
> just saying.



This is the best post of the thread. I don't think we can deny that there are many causes for being fat, and some of them are self-induced. Denying that we are partially to blame for our weight is dishonest and won't further fat-acceptance. I don't think fat people are the subject of prejudice because of how they got to be their size; it is their size people don't like. And denying personal responsibility as one (of many) factors is only going to lead to people not believing our story and to people believing we are lying about the other reasons just to cover up that one.

Me, I've always been big, but I gained 50 lbs when I stopped walking so much after university. I could lose some weight if I exercised more or ate less, but I enjoy my current lifestyle and don't want to change. So accepting how I got to where I am is a major part of accepting who I am.


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## Ample Pie (May 2, 2007)

Luvs2laff said:


> This is the best post of the thread. I don't think we can deny that there are many causes for being fat, and some of them are self-induced. Denying that we are partially to blame for our weight is dishonest and won't further fat-acceptance. I don't think fat people are the subject of prejudice because of how they got to be their size; it is their size people don't like. And denying personal responsibility as one (of many) factors is only going to lead to people not believing our story and to people believing we are lying about the other reasons just to cover up that one.
> 
> Me, I've always been big, but I gained 50 lbs when I stopped walking so much after university. I could lose some weight if I exercised more or ate less, but I enjoy my current lifestyle and don't want to change. So accepting how I got to where I am is a major part of accepting who I am.



Oh, I think the "how" of it does get people judged--it's so much easier to justify fatphobia by saying "well those fatties bring it on themselves." What we have to change isn't the fact that we sometimes DO bring it on ourselves but the concept that it's so WRONG that we sometimes bring it on ourselves.

If we're really going for acceptance, we have to learn to be accepting of HOW it happens as well as the fact THAT it happens.

love.


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## Friday (May 2, 2007)

> we have to learn to be accepting of HOW it happens as well as the fact THAT it happens.



Exactly. When I said that I'm fat because of my calorie intake I did not say it in a way that tried to lay blame or fault at anyone's door, including mine. It doesn't matter how I got here, I'm fine the way I am. I did and still do have issues though with the idea that I am somehow being judgemental or non-SA just because I happen to know where my weight comes from.


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## SummerG (May 2, 2007)

MissToodles said:


> yes, but sometimes as mentioned in other threads, it's nearly impossible to separate health/activisim. We deserve to be healthy, for better care etc. Yet this totally falls into personal responsibility catergory if somehow our health falters. I realize people are using ancedotes but I hate when these conversations veer into this direction. If we try to be free of judgement about body size, can we be free of judgements based on health/ability?
> 
> I'm not one of those people who want to ban conversation about their co-morbidites or other issues, just that we (general we) don't point the finger. I don't think starting threads about how much you can walk or how you got fat are constructive to advancing acceptance. How about accepting "as is"? Of course, this is my opinion and no one has to agree.



I wasn't going to post in this thread, because quite frankly it twisted my knickers, but I decided because you said exactly how I was feeling I'd quote ya


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## BitsyAintMyName (May 3, 2007)

Why am I fat? A goodly number of reasons. The primary reason started the way most bad things start. With an unfortunate occurence. I caught bronchitis in kindergarten. Plenty of people get bronchitis and recover from it. But I developed asthma. Its not the typical sort that requires a rescue inhaler. Its excercise induced asthama. It was really bad in my younger years. My hayfever triggered it and my very favorite thing in the world, dancing, did as well. I couldn't laugh like normal people did without having coughing fits and sometimes almost blacking out from lack of oxygen. So I stopped laughing and stopped dancing and that's when I started getting big. Obesity runs in my family but there are enough non-obese people to make me believe that I could have been smaller if not for my asthama. I'm almost 100% sure I've outgrown it because I can run and laugh without spazzing out. A few deep breaths suffice where a nap would have been needed before. I used to be a big eater but now I eat only 2 meals a day and 2 snacks(chips and salsa is my fav). I know that with regular exercise I could lose some weight because in high school I actually lost some weight through gym 2-3 times a week and PT in JROTC twice a week. I'm not in bad shape now.  I want to lose some of my tummy so I can breath easier at night though. For the most part I don't care about being fat. I think its made me more honest than I would have been but simultaneously harder and sadder than I should have been.


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## kerrypop (May 3, 2007)

Aww, thx Tina! Although, I must admit, It was a little bit of a picnic for me... all the tv/ice cream I wanted... tons of visitors and presents, and when I got out of the hospital my dad said I could have ANYTHING I wanted, (minus a puppy or a trip to disneyland, we weren't loaded, and my dad liked our carpet...) So, I got a SUPER NINTENDO!!! 

Physical Therapy was bad, but you know.. the whole ordeal had its perks.


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## Tina (May 3, 2007)

I'm very glad you had parents who spoiled you a bit at the time.  Have you had lasting effects (none of my beeswax, so feel free to tell me to take a hike)?


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## kerrypop (May 3, 2007)

Tina said:


> I'm very glad you had parents who spoiled you a bit at the time.  Have you had lasting effects (none of my beeswax, so feel free to tell me to take a hike)?



LOL my parents were NOT the spoiling type... so no. Situation being what it was though, I think I would have turned into a depresso-child had I not had a lot of extra attention. The spoilage stopped the moment I returned to school. (although my brother is spoiled rotten... he's the _baaaaaaaaby_ )


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## Tina (May 3, 2007)

That whole baby thing is a load, I tell you!! I, obviously, was not the baby.


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## tonynyc (May 3, 2007)

I agree it's all about 'acceptance' as oppossed to 'fault' and 'blame'. 
We just need to be happy with ourselves.

Now, I look forward to viewing the pictures of the goodies in the foodee thread. My excuse for being a big guy? I just love food period :eat2: :eat2:


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## kerrypop (May 3, 2007)

Tina said:


> That whole baby thing is a load, I tell you!! I, obviously, was not the baby.



I just realized that the "lasting effects" you referred to were probably not of the spoiling variety, but more the arthritis-ey type. The answer is, unfortunately, yes. I had to quit music because my hands started freezing up when I would practice piano... which was a requirement for my bassoon performance major....


BUT it all worked out in the end, and I am happy and life is good


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## Tina (May 3, 2007)

I just thought maybe you didn't want to talk about it and would never have asked again. It's a shame that this happened to you, but I do believe in that whole 'when one door closes a window opens.' Sometimes things that seem awful at the time pave the way for the most wonderful things, and it sounds like you have a marvelously positive attitude, Kerry, and you will succeed in life. Good for you!


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## TearInYourHand (May 3, 2007)

whoops!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## TearInYourHand (May 3, 2007)

kerrypop said:


> Hmm.. I was never a twig, but when I was a little kerry, I was not overweight at all. Then when I was six I came down with arthritis and was bedridden for.. oh.. a month. When moving became a chore, I became chubby. Exercise sucks and hurts and is lame! BUT- I could make better choices as to what and how much I eat... compensating for the fact that I don't move as much as I should I suppose.. .but where's the fun in that? Plus, I LIKE being a chubby cuddlepod.
> 
> and... that pretty much sums it up.



Kerry, do you know what kind of arthritis you had? Was it Juvenile rheumatoid arthitis? Sorry, I'm just a curious medical dork!

PS. I like you as a chubby cuddlepod, too! You're cute as a button!


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## kerrypop (May 3, 2007)

TearInYourHand said:


> Kerry, do you know what kind of arthritis you had? Was it Juvenile rheumatoid arthitis? Sorry, I'm just a curious medical dork!
> 
> PS. I like you as a chubby cuddlepod, too! You're cute as a button!



Awww...:blush: You're sweet.

It was JRA. We were able to treat it pretty well with kiddo asprin, (the orange chewable kind) I took 7 pills 4 times daily... blech. JRA typically goes away, or you grow out of it as you get older. We thought that was the case as 10,000 bloodtests later I was testing normal. When I was a junior in high school though, I developed episcloritis(spelling? I don't know?) Which was a weird eye thing, which was related to arthritis. As time went on my wrists started being lame, and my fingers, and my ankles and my everything.... but it kind of... flares up I guess? My doctor says arthritis + hypothyroid-izm is why I sleep so much. (which also would contribute to the weight thing) As I wrote earlier, It flared up again in college to the point where I couldn't play bassoon or piano, and had to drop my performance major. I have more emotional issues about that than I do about being fat, to be honest. 

Anyway, It runs in the family, and it doesn't directly affect me every day, although I am prone to having weird pains in my joints every now and then. It's completely manageable, I just keep anti-inflammitories around all the time, and Im good. I just hope it STAYS manageable.


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## Tina (May 3, 2007)

kerrypop said:


> I have more emotional issues about that than I do about being fat, to be honest.


I can understand that, Kerry. I have lymphedema and when it was out of control and untreated, it felt at times almost like my body was turning against me in a sense. It was very frustrating and left me feeling helpless at times.


> Anyway, It runs in the family, and it doesn't directly affect me every day, although I am prone to having weird pains in my joints every now and then. It's completely manageable, I just keep anti-inflammitories around all the time, and Im good. I just hope it STAYS manageable.


I hope so, too, but I am _very_ glad it's manageable.

My mother has RA and her hands are kind of wonky and twisted. Since I seem to come down with many of the things she has, I figure I'll probably get that, too, particularly since I have arthritis in other areas of my bod. We all have our burdens and areas of frustration; it sounds like you deal with yours very well, Kerry, and I hope they stay at bay.


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## collegeguy2514 (May 3, 2007)

im obese because i purposely eat more than i burn off. all the beer helps too, im sure.


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## imfree (May 8, 2007)

Here's an interesting article on the genetic link to obesity.


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/health/08fat.html?ei=5043&en=2746d0f041c81f6c&ex=1179288


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## Tina (May 8, 2007)

An excerpt of Gina Kolata's new book, I see. I'm definitely buying that book. Rep to you for this very interesting article, imfree. Thanks.


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## LJ Rock (May 8, 2007)

> The feeling of hunger is intense and, if not as potent as the drive to breathe, is probably no less powerful than the drive to drink when one is thirsty. This is the feeling the obese must resist after they have lost a significant amount of weight.



Very interesting article, Free. Thanks.


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## moonvine (May 8, 2007)

I'm fat because God made me that way.


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## imfree (May 8, 2007)

moonvine said:


> I'm fat because God made me that way.



Thanks, Moonvine, I think HE really did make us that way! My
soul has always been fat, my body caught up later



Psa 92:12 The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree: he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon.

Psa 92:13 Those that be planted in the house of the LORD shall flourish in the courts of our God.

Psa 92:14 They shall still bring forth fruit in old age; they shall be fat and flourishing;

I found these verses in my bible 20 years ago when I was
searching for the truth about GOD's feelings toward obese people. It seemed
to me that if a person "lived right", that person would become fat. That's how I see these verses. Now I'm old, fat, and living in Lebanon. My fruit, I pray, is
to see love, peace, and grace grow in others as a result of my writings.


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## Jane (May 8, 2007)

moonvine said:


> I'm fat because God made me that way.



Amen, sister.

Oh, and air conditioning.

I was outdoors playing all the time until we got an air conditioner. But, when it's 100 degrees for day after day, and it's a nice 70 inside....Sigh.


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## Mishty (May 8, 2007)

_Because I love McDonalds dollar menu, and sitting._
Nothing better than fast food and sitting on a bench,in a recliner,on a friends bed watching TV, or sitting on a barstool and watching sports. 

_I also have PCOS_, so it's really hard to drop any weight I put on, but I am active, and my fat is toned, well as toned as fat _can_ be. I love to swim for hours at a time, bowl, and run after energetic little kids.

No matter how much I swim though, _I can eat like no ones buissness_, double cheese burgers, tacos,fries,shakes,hot dogs.....if it's fast,cheap,and hot, and I don't have to leave the car, I'll eat it.

_I'm from the South_, and we fry everything, cover it gravy, and serve it with biscuits.... I mean really, on any given day my Momma has leftovers ranging from ,sausage biscuits and fried chicken to tater tot casserole and fried pies. 

Oh, and don't forget "_Quick-N-Easy" food_! Like those little "TV Dinners", $.99 for half pound of pasta covered in a processed meat sauce, covered in cheese, ready to eat in 3 minutes..... Raman? 10 cents and a cup of water = 16 grams of fat...

So yeah, the reason I'm obese?
*Food.*


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## QtPatooti (May 8, 2007)

moonvine said:


> I'm fat because God made me that way.



Thank you for that Moonvine - that should be enough for all of us who beat ourselves up, blame ourselves and hate ourselves for being fat and for NOT being what some in society believes we should all be.


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## dac01 (May 9, 2007)

i am obese because i wanted to see what it was like a girl in my class was obese and i started to over eat now i am a healthy 260 pounds just like her


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