# I think this girl just needs the love of a good guy.



## NovemberRomeo (Mar 10, 2007)

My heart goes out to her...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-mXj2xpWuU


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## ZainTheInsane (Mar 10, 2007)

Wow...just wow...


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## Tooz (Mar 10, 2007)

Crazy, anyone?


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## Jon Blaze (Mar 11, 2007)

I asked her why she wants to lose weight. I'm waiting for the reply. Something tells me it has nothing to do with health or reasons for herself... I'm not going to jump the gun though.


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## mossystate (Mar 11, 2007)

I don't know..sounds like she wants to lose weight for herself..and I think much of what we humans do has at least one other person attached to our decision..so..*shrugs*. Hope she loses weight if that what she wants..whatever..lol..


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Mar 11, 2007)

Funny part is the "feeling thin" thing is a myth. She wants to feel thin? Pfft. Good luck.


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

Here's what I posted:



> You're a beautiful woman- soft round and natural. You don't need to lose weight, you need to lose the brainwashing that says your natural body is ugly and unhealthy. Believe the lie and spend the next 20 years fighting your genes for absolutely nothing.


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## biackrlng (Mar 11, 2007)

NovemberRomeo said:


> My heart goes out to her...
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-mXj2xpWuU



SHe is gorgeous and will make some FA very happy

humm I am an FA :smitten: 

[email protected]


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## isotope (Mar 11, 2007)

I like Telechubbies and Eat the Press.

The other ones need a little work.

PS, perdy lady.


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## Phalloidium (Mar 11, 2007)

I'd watch Fattlestar... looks interesting...


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## waldo (Mar 11, 2007)

Jon Blaze said:


> I asked her why she wants to lose weight. I'm waiting for the reply. Something tells me it has nothing to do with health or reasons for herself... I'm not going to jump the gun though.




She did mention having aches and sore feet which could be related to her weight. This is troubling when considering she is only 23 and already feeling aches and pains.

The other thing that caught my attention was what she said about wanting to lose weight but not having the self-discipline to do it on her own and needing the structure/support the weight-loss show would provide to accomplish it. It makes me think she would end up going back to her old habits and gaining the weight back plus some afterward, especially after she finds out that losing weight isn't going to be the panacea she imagines it to be.

I am glad you are trying to talk to her about this. You too Russ. That is a great example of 'FA activism'


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## Tooz (Mar 11, 2007)

To the people saying, "Oh, she needs some love/she's hot": I can pretty much guarantee you her self esteem and apparent strange mental state would get pretty old pretty quick.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 11, 2007)

You know, saying a woman would stop wanting to lose weight if only she had the love of a good man is just wrong. The point is that *she* isn't satisfied with her size. It's wrong of us FA's (and I've been there and realized i was wrong) to believe that all fat people need to start liking themselves is to find out that there are potential partners that like their size.

Whether an FA likes her or not is irrelevent, she doesn't like her weight. It's wrong to think that our attraction or attention would be so vital to somebody else's self image that the mere fact that we like how they look would be so transformative. In fact, nobody's feelings of self worth should be contingent on the ability to find a partner. What if she dated an FA, felt good about herself due to his attentions, and then they broke up? Then where would her head be?

Also, I just have to say the constant notion that anyone who wishes to lose weight must be "brainwashed" is really getting kind of old. And if she were being brainwashed by the non-FA's of the world, how is it different for FA's to come along and tell her to not lose weight just because it would conform to their personal preferences.

As far as the tape itself, reality shows probably get thousands of these tapes, she clearly just made something that would make her stand out from the pack and get noticed.


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## waldo (Mar 11, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> You know, saying a woman would stop wanting to lose weight if only she had the love of a good man is just wrong. The point is that *she* isn't satisfied with her size. It's wrong of us FA's (and I've been there and realized i was wrong) to believe that all fat people need to start liking themselves is to find out that there are potential partners that like their size.
> 
> Whether an FA likes her or not is irrelevent, she doesn't like her weight. It's wrong to think that our attraction or attention would be so vital to somebody else's self image that the mere fact that we like how they look would be so transformative. In fact, nobody's feelings of self worth should be contingent on the ability to find a partner. What if she dated an FA, felt good about herself due to his attentions, and then they broke up? Then where would her head be?
> 
> ...



I agree with you to an extent. But whether an FA finds her attractive is not irrelevant. I imagine part of the reason she doesn't like her fat body is the assumption that noone else finds her attractive and she has a tough time with getting a nice boyfriend. So if some respectful FAs come along and educate her about their existence it can certainly help give her a new perspective. I seem to recall a lot of BBW newbies who come to Dimensions and were formerly rather unaware of the existence of the large number of FAs. On the other hand, poor FA behavior such as that described on the FA Code of Conduct thread on the Main Board will do more harm than good (not that guys who are attracted to skinny chicks don't behave disrespectfully too).


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## squurp (Mar 11, 2007)

The real truth here is, if she has low self-esteem, she has low self esteem. This means you telling her she is beautiful, is completely meaningless. In order for her to believe you were sincere, would require her to have a level of self esteem that she may not be capable of. So, presuming she does have low self -esteem, then she'll assume you are just messing with her, or she will be revolted by you even suggesting beauty in what she so despises, or she we block it out, as if it didn't happen. 

See that is a major limitation for us humans. In general, we accept only the portions or perceptions of reality we want to accept. The rest, well, that is pretty hit and miss.


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

Reality check time:

Women are not born with low self esteem, it's created. Her bizarre mental state, or hatred of her body, is the same as every other woman and girl out there obsessed with losing weight, losing fat. It is the product of brainwashing by the endless sea of tv shows, magazines, hollywood, fashion designers, plastic surgeons etc etc.

Their message is loud and clear: To women and girls- _your natural bodies are ugly and unhealthy, buy this... your natural bodies are ugly and unhealthy buy this_....

Females of all ages are being thrown into an endless conflict with their genes and hormones surcoming to a message to be something they're not so people pushing products, drugs and services can make a profit -all the while pretending to be performing a public good.

What's the difference between FAs wanting women to be fat and those wanting them to lose weight one foolish poster asked... FAs are in phase with biological reality. Women are designed to carry a high percentage of fat (some more than others) and we love those women who are genetically programmed for a lot of fat. The weight loss pushers look at a natural woman's body of all ranges and apply it against irrational standards- standards that range from size 0 to a masculine model. They're not looking at biological facts or reasonable standards, they're looking at what will prompt greater purchase of whatever they're selling, whether it be a magazine, a new drug, a gym membership or a tv show- it's that simple.

Women are more vulnerable to physical criticism because in the human species it is the female that sexually lures, with her feminine curves (and fuel for her fertility) being the fluffy characteristic fat that all normal healthy women develop. This truth has been condemned in the name of profit and it has been and continues to be exploited to the max.


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

> The real truth here is, if she has low self-esteem, she has low self esteem. This means you telling her she is beautiful, is completely meaningless



I disagree with this statement whole-heartedly. She received her low self esteem via negative influence in one form or another. Positive influence obviously is the counter to it and may open her eyes.

Now if you want to argue that the negative influences out there far outweigh the positives we can generate, at least in the short term, I would totally agree with you. We in the "fat community" are definitely fighting an uphill battle. We are up against a huge money making machine that is not going to derail easily.


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## Mini (Mar 11, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> You know, saying a woman would stop wanting to lose weight if only she had the love of a good man is just wrong. The point is that *she* isn't satisfied with her size. It's wrong of us FA's (and I've been there and realized i was wrong) to believe that all fat people need to start liking themselves is to find out that there are potential partners that like their size.
> 
> Whether an FA likes her or not is irrelevent, she doesn't like her weight. It's wrong to think that our attraction or attention would be so vital to somebody else's self image that the mere fact that we like how they look would be so transformative. In fact, nobody's feelings of self worth should be contingent on the ability to find a partner. What if she dated an FA, felt good about herself due to his attentions, and then they broke up? Then where would her head be?
> 
> ...



Couldn't have said it any better myself.


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## RedHotAva (Mar 11, 2007)

NovemberRomeo said:


> *I think this girl just needs the love of a good guy*



Wow, where do I even begin??


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## Mini (Mar 11, 2007)

RedHotAva said:


> Wow, where do I even begin??



Try "WRONG. Here's why:".


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

> You know, saying a woman would stop wanting to lose weight if only she had the love of a good man is just wrong. The point is that she isn't satisfied with her size. It's wrong of us FA's (and I've been there and realized i was wrong) to believe that all fat people need to start liking themselves is to find out that there are potential partners that like their size.
> 
> Whether an FA likes her or not is irrelevent, she doesn't like her weight. It's wrong to think that our attraction or attention would be so vital to somebody else's self image that the mere fact that we like how they look would be so transformative. In fact, nobody's feelings of self worth should be contingent on the ability to find a partner. What if she dated an FA, felt good about herself due to his attentions, and then they broke up? Then where would her head be?




This is a foolish post. 

Human beings are a social animal which interacts with others. We do not live in a vacuum with some amorphous self-esteem.

Dimensions has done more to help counter the incredibly negative pressures on fat women because it showcases men who are sexually attracted to them. How many fat women have had their eyes pleasantly opened when discovering the existence of Dimensions and of FAs? - when before they felt alone and left out. Yes, we FAs are VERY RELEVANT (I agree with you Waldo).

Again humans are social and sexual beings. To suggest that being sexually attractive to the opposite sex is unimportant and disconnected to one's sense of self is rather ludicrous.


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## RedHotAva (Mar 11, 2007)

Mini said:


> Try "WRONG. Here's why:".



This is such an irritating topic to me- it just reminded me of the ending of X-Men 3. She let herself DIE because someone loved her? _Excuse me?_ Not to get way off-base, but JEEZ


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## RedHotAva (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> This is a foolish post.
> 
> Human beings are a social animal which interacts with others. We do not live in a vacuum with some amorphous self-esteem.
> 
> ...




Yes, acceptance is very important, but implying that having a man love her would solve her problems is just ridiculous. Acceptance comes in many forms, having a man around isnt the fat-girls panacea.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> Women are not born with low self esteem, it's created. Her bizarre mental state, or hatred of her body, is the same as every other woman and girl out there obsessed with losing weight, losing fat. It is the product of brainwashing by the endless sea of tv shows, magazines, hollywood, fashion designers, plastic surgeons etc etc.
> 
> Their message is loud and clear: To women and girls- _your natural bodies are ugly and unhealthy, buy this... your natural bodies are ugly and unhealthy buy this_....
> 
> ...



1. Yeah, the video was goofy, but i think "bizarre mental state" is overdoing it.

2. Not all women are naturally fat and not all "normal" women are fat. Some are, some are not Beyond whether or not they are "fat", each woman has a different body type as far as fat distribution, bone structure, height, etc. Even if what you mean to say is that women "naturally" have a higher percentage of body fat or that they all "naturally" have hips and breasts, you're still discounting a wide variation in human shapes. 

3. Please, please, please enough with the hyper hatred toward gym memberships and weight loss programs. Eating healthfully and exercising are good things. A woman's choice to change her percentage of body fat, gain muscle, tone up, train for a marathon, or take up weightlifting as a hobby are not unatural.

4. I can't really even get my head around your thought process that men who have a preference for a certain body type are the only normal men. Neither can I determine where FFA's fit into this. If fat is a natural "feminine" characteristic, then are FFA's abnormal? Or secretly lesbians?

5. And if women are meant to lure men with promises of fertility, are you saying that older women cease to be attractive or that men that like older women are abnormal, as they may be attracted to women who are no longer fertile? That is so incredibly offensive it reads like a warning manual to women who might be planning on getting older--"Men are lured by fluffy feminine curves with the promise of fertility, so once you can no longer offer the promise of carrying a man's seed, you lose your value."

6. Oh, and lastly, do we know that she is heterosexual? Maybe she does not even want a man. And for that matter, how do you explain homosexuality in your "attraction to fertility" since a lesbian couple can't create a biological child.


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## Mini (Mar 11, 2007)

RedHotAva said:


> This is such an irritating topic to me- it just reminded me of the ending of X-Men 3. She let herself DIE because someone loved her? _Excuse me?_ Not to get way off-base, but JEEZ



Well, to be fair, fat chicks generally aren't destroying shit with their brainses.


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

> Yes, acceptance is very important, but implying that having a man love her would solve her problems is just ridiculous. Acceptance comes in many forms, having a man around isnt the fat-girls panacea.



You're depositing an extreme position to what I said and to the point I was trying to make. Keep it in context.


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

1. Yeah, the video was goofy, but i think "bizarre mental state" is overdoing it.

_I was referring to a previous post with "strange mental state", I used the word bizarre- go back and review_

2. Not all women are naturally fat and not all "normal" women are fat. Some are, some are not Beyond whether or not they are "fat", each woman has a different body type as far as fat distribution, bone structure, height, etc. Even if what you mean to say is that women "naturally" have a higher percentage of body fat or that they all "naturally" have hips and breasts, you're still discounting a wide variation in human shapes. 

_All normal healthy women carry a high percentage of fat relative to corresponding males. A cursory examination of genes and hormones with a touch of socio-biology explains why. This should be somewhat obvious._

3. Please, please, please enough with the hyper hatred toward gym memberships and weight loss programs. Eating healthfully and exercising are good things. A woman's choice to change her percentage of body fat, gain muscle, tone up, train for a marathon, or take up weightlifting as a hobby are not unatural.

_I'm a realist, I know BS when I see it... we disagree, simple_

4. I can't really even get my head around your thought process that men who have a preference for a certain body type are the only normal men. Neither can I determine where FFA's fit into this. If fat is a natural "feminine" characteristic, then are FFA's abnormal? Or secretly lesbians?

_I know the answer to this from a biological point of view but you wouldn't like it and I'm not here to infuriate_

5. And if women are meant to lure men with promises of fertility, are you saying that older women cease to be attractive or that men that like older women are abnormal, as they may be attracted to women who are no longer fertile? That is so incredibly offensive it reads like a warning manual to women who might be planning on getting older--"Men are lured by fluffy feminine curves with the promise of fertility, so once you can no longer offer the promise of carrying a man's seed, you lose your value."

_Hehe, you really need to take a deep breath. You are too easily offended and are losing focus here._

6. Oh, and lastly, do we know that she is heterosexual? Maybe she does not even want a man. And for that matter, how do you explain homosexuality in your "attraction to fertility" since a lesbian couple can't create a biological child.

_Again, some might get offended by my answer here and I can see a continuing dialog is pointless. We live on two different planets you and I. Let's just agree to disagree and move on._


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## RedHotAva (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> 1. Yeah, the video was goofy, but i think "bizarre mental state" is overdoing it.
> 
> *I was referring to a previous post with "bizarre mental state"- go back and review*
> 
> ...



I think it is very arrogant to assert that your particular viewpoint is the only correct one. Yes, women have a higher body fat percentage than men, but that does not mean that every woman was biologically built to be very fat. Everyone has their own preference for the way their partners look and the way they want to see themselves. This is basically the same as all of the guys out there that insist that the only normal or healthy way for a woman to look is to be super hardbodied or like a crack addict. I think we should all keep an open mind about these things. This is supposed to be a size-acceptance community, not a fat-supremacy community


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

> I think it is very arrogant to assert that your particular viewpoint is the only correct one.



_I'm giving my opinion, if you think that is arrogant then so be it. _



> Yes, women have a higher body fat percentage than men, but that does not mean that every woman was biologically built to be very fat.



Here's what I said: _Women are designed to carry a high percentage of fat (some more than others) and we love those women who are genetically programmed for a lot of fat. _

At least read what I say before commenting. My general point is that there is an order to nature and that the fat women develop has been demonized for monetary reasons.

Now there are some here that either don't believe that, which is astounding blindness, or they have a problem with my recognizing biological distinctions. Either way I can't help them. They need to wake up on their own it seems.


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## Waxwing (Mar 11, 2007)

I can't help but think that Russ's comments are actually a huge joke and at any moment someone is going to leap out and shout "surprise", because it's as though he's a parody of inflammatory, arrogant, narrow-minded men. Oh except he likes fat women. Well, that makes it alright then. 

Jesus H., man! You seem to be implying a number of laughable things, the first being that a) all women are naturally fat (later you tried to backpedal by saying that you only meant that they carry a relatively higher percentage of fat than men, but your initial point was pretty clear), and b) that if stereotypes were destroyed and/or changed, NO women would want to be thin anymore. Oh sure, that makes sense. Wait. No it doesn't, it's moronic. 

Seriously, this is just inane and I'm hard pressed to believe you take yourself seriously. You're passing the same kind of judgment on someone for wanting to be smaller as some do on you for wanting to be (or appreciating) larger. How is that logical? 

I just re-read and realized that you've also implied that women who *are* thin, must be unhealthy, because that's not the natural state of a woman. That one was just hilarious. 

It is entirely ok if someone wants to be fat. By the same token, it's equally ok if someone doesn't. Both are personal preference, and both are beautiful. Either way, it's none of your business. 

And yours or anyone's praise, no matter how lavish, will touch the core of someone's low self-esteem, if they are truly unhappy with who they are. To think otherwise is the height of presumption and arrogance.


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

Waxwing take a pill and sleep it off...


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## RedHotAva (Mar 11, 2007)

Waxwing said:


> I can't help but think that Russ's comments are actually a huge joke and at any moment someone is going to leap out and shout "surprise", because it's as though he's a parody of inflammatory, arrogant, narrow-minded men. Oh except he likes fat women. Well, that makes it alright then.
> 
> Jesus H., man! You seem to be implying a number of laughable things, the first being that a) all women are naturally fat (later you tried to backpedal by saying that you only meant that they carry a relatively higher percentage of fat than men, but your initial point was pretty clear), and b) that if stereotypes were destroyed and/or changed, NO women would want to be thin anymore. Oh sure, that makes sense. Wait. No it doesn't, it's moronic.
> 
> ...



Thank you! I seem to be having trouble with the putting the words together and having them come out good thing today.


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## RedHotAva (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> Waxwing take a pill and sleep it off...



WOW! Way to prove a point, buddy.


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## Waxwing (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> Waxwing take a pill and sleep it off...


 
You're funny. When people call you on your shit you get all huffy. That's adorable. You're my new favorite. I love kids, really. 

Take a pill for what? I'm not upset, I'm actually tremendously entertained by this. Isn't this what this is all for? debate?


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## Wagimawr (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> Waxwing take a pill and sleep it off...


You were doing so well debating, too.


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

> You were doing so well debating, too.



Heh, actually after reading Waxwing's post I laughed and what I wrote was the first thing that came to mind. There's nothing to debate. Her post is an unapplicable rant, nothing more...

But, (taking a deep breath and heading down the rabbit hole) I will respond...


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## Waxwing (Mar 11, 2007)

No, you're right, when people don't agree with you, they are simply spouting "unapplicable rant". 

Also, a man who will make absolute statements about women in the face of _women_ telling him he's off base are just awesome.


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## Wagimawr (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> Heh, actually after reading Waxwing's post I laughed and what I wrote was the first thing that came to mind. There's nothing to debate. Her post is an unapplicable rant, nothing more...
> 
> But, (taking a deep breath and heading down the rabbit hole) I will respond...


She's calling you out on your points. Respond in kind, or kindly shut it.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 11, 2007)

And furthermore, he's the parody of men who think that anyone who disagrees with him is a "hysterical female type" who needs to "take a deep breath and not be so easily offended" or "take a pill and sleep it off."

Because _obviously_ his opinions are fact, and if you get offended by them, well then, you're just too stupid to understand biological fact. Oh, and you "need to take a pill", meaning "oh, silly girl, you're getting all worked up over nothing."

Women's bodies may naturally have a higher percentage of body fat in correlation to men's bodies, this is not the same thing as "a high percentage of fat." A woman can be 120 pounds with a higher percentage of those pounds coming from fat than a similarly sized man, but that does not mean all women are biologically designed to be "fat" as in "overweight."

By the way, Russ, I sure hope you're very financially well off, because women are genetically programmed to seek out men that can provide for them and their offspring. So if a woman ever rejected you for not buying her enough nice things or taking her to four star restaurants...don't get offended, because it's just biology.


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

Ok, getting my boots on for what I am about to step in:



> I can't help but think that Russ's comments are actually a huge joke and at any moment someone is going to leap out and shout "surprise", because it's as though he's a parody of inflammatory, arrogant, narrow-minded men. Oh except he likes fat women. Well, that makes it alright then.



_Ok hmmmm, let's see what we have here- blah blah blah, I don't like what Russ said, he's a parody- arrogant and narrow-minded.. blah blah.. ok nothing here, let's move one_



> Jesus H., man! You seem to be implying a number of laughable things, the first being that a) all women are naturally fat (later you tried to backpedal by saying that you only meant that they carry a relatively higher percentage of fat than men, but your initial point was pretty clear), and b) that if stereotypes were destroyed and/or changed, NO women would want to be thin anymore. Oh sure, that makes sense. Wait. No it doesn't, it's moronic.



Here's what I said: _Women are designed to carry a high percentage of fat (some more than others) and we love those women who are genetically programmed for a lot of fat. _

_Pretty straight forward, no back-pedaling, no need to search for hidden meanings that are not there. The rest is just made up, labeled implication, and applied against me. Basically Waxwing you don't read very well and like to make up stuff to argue against. Let's move on_




> Seriously, this is just inane and I'm hard pressed to believe you take yourself seriously. You're passing the same kind of judgment on someone for wanting to be smaller as some do on you for wanting to be (or appreciating) larger. How is that logical?



_Hmmm what do we have here? Inane, you're hard pressed, I'm not serious (I am)... this is interesting, I'm passing judgment on others... well yeah I am, I am passing judgment on those who are behind the GIANT industry brain-washing women and young girls to hate their bodies._ 



> I just re-read and realized that you've also implied that women who *are* thin, must be unhealthy, because that's not the natural state of a woman. That one was just hilarious.



_Huh? You pulled this one out of your ass.. moving on_



> It is entirely ok if someone wants to be fat. By the same token, it's equally ok if someone doesn't. Both are personal preference, and both are beautiful. Either way, it's none of your business.



_Ok, here we have it's ok to be fat, and then it's equally ok if someone doesn't stuff and then we personal preference, beautiful and then none of my business. Hmmm, I guess sharing my opinion is equivalent to butting into other people's business. In short Waxwing you don't like my opinion, nothing more._



> And yours or anyone's praise, no matter how lavish, will touch the core of someone's low self-esteem, if they are truly unhappy with who they are. To think otherwise is the height of presumption and arrogance.



Well, my dear Waxwing, you have missed my points, made stuff up, and ultimately we disagree assuming you even know what I said in the first place.

_Again, My general point is that there is an order to nature and that the fat women develop has been demonized for monetary reasons- here lies one of the major reasons why so many females hate their bodies, suffer from eating and morphic disorders, are dieting as young as 10 years old and would rather be dead then fat. You call that personal choice? Dimensions, and other venues like it, have done a great service in showcasing that there are men who sexually desire fat women and this has helped many such women gain a lot of confidence they didn't have before, both personal and sexual.

To me that is a good thing. If you disagree, so be it._


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

> She's calling you out on your points. Respond in kind, or kindly shut it.



Well geez, give me a chance to type, my fingers only move so fast you know


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 11, 2007)

You know, Russ, Waxwing seems to read just fine. 

I went and checked some of your other posts just to see if your job or income were listed anyplace, since i was wondering about whether or not that woman in the YouTube video might think that *you* were good enough for *her*, which you would not be unless you were rich. Oh, and also you'd need to be tall and fairly muscular as women look to men for physical protection too, like to fight off woolly mammoths and other predators. 

Pretty much everything you've posted here has been about your sexual preference for fat women. That's cool, and this is certainly the place for it. But you also mention that you wouldn't likely be attracted to a woman smaller than 350 pounds, and prefer women in the 350-500 range. Now, again, that's cool, and there are plenty of SSBBW's to go around. But the vast majority of women's bodies are not that size. There is a difference between being curvy and being 500 pounds. I won't use the words normal or abnormal the way you do, but the size range you claim is a biologically programmed preference is pretty far to the right of the size-bell curve. The overwhelming majority of women, with or without brainwashing do not carry that much weight and probably don't have set points that high.

My take on you is that you are most certainly arrogant, you just can't get past the idea that some people think differently from how you do.


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## Waxwing (Mar 11, 2007)

You didn't really address anything that I or LoveBHMS said. You just said, blah blah you're wrong. That's not an argument. Tell me *why* you feel like you do. I'm not here just to spout my own shit, but because I'm interested in what you have to say *because* I disagree with you. That's what makes it interesting. 

I get that you're passionate about this issue, and you know what-- being passionately pissed-off at the diet industry isn't necessarily a bad thing. But your statements are so absolute in nature and so unwilling to allow for deviation that whatever you're trying to say is lost in the sea of misplaced vitriol. 

Your implication, as I and some others saw it, is that the natural state of a woman's body is "fat" (that's a tough subjective term but I think that we each know what the other means). That seems like a silly generalization which marginalises the great variety of type and size of the human body. 

Damn right the diet industry is for the most part made up of vampiric shits who make a financial killing by telling people they aren't attractive. BUT. Not every desire to be smaller is immediately wrong, and not every woman who is unhappy with the size or shape of her body is a victim of the diet industry. It is possible to desire change based on your personal preference, and whether or not someone finds you attractive isn't going to change that. 

I think that some people who read your original posts felt as though your attitude toward the maker of the now-infamous video was "poor dumb woman brainwashed by the diet industry. if she only know that she's supposed to be fat and that men will love her for it she would be happy." 

Now that might NOT be what you're saying, but that's the way it came across, and it seemed insulting to women, fat or thin! If that's not your point, okay, enter into a dialogue and tell me *why* --don't just respond with "you don't read very well", "take a pill", and "you have missed my points". 




Russ2d said:


> Ok, getting my boots on for what I am about to step in:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

> Women's bodies may naturally have a higher percentage of body fat in correlation to men's bodies, this is not the same thing as "a high percentage of fat."



_Yes, it is... if you had kept the context of what I was saying which you didn't. I have been saying the same thing for years, all relative, here, on the main board, all over... I am well read in socio-biology and endocrinology. I have been around a long time saying the same exact things._ 



> By the way, Russ, I sure hope you're very financially well off, because women are genetically programmed to seek out men that can provide for them and their offspring. So if a woman ever rejected you for not buying her enough nice things or taking her to four star restaurants...don't get offended, because it's just biology.


_Correct, women are security minded. Doesn't give an excuse for "gold digging" but it is fair for a woman to act in a concerned manner for security. I always pay for the meals and do not get offended by the way- old fashioned I guess you'd say, right?_


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

> I went and checked some of your other posts just to see if your job or income were listed anyplace, since i was wondering about whether or not that woman in the YouTube video might think that you were good enough for her, which you would not be unless you were rich. Oh, and also you'd need to be tall and fairly muscular as women look to men for physical protection too, like to fight off woolly mammoths and other predators.



_Women are security minded and have a right to have some expectations from a man- I think anyway. Don't you? You are of course only bringing this up because you think I am superficial somehow in my support of fat women and my being against the unreasonable pressures all women are under.

People who know me here, by the way, know I have a decent job and I am tall and muscular- predators beware._


----------



## LoveBHMS (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> _
> Correct, women are security minded. Doesn't give an excuse for "gold digging" but it is fair for a woman to act in a concerned manner for security. I always pay for the meals and do not get offended by the way- old fashioned I guess you'd say, right?_


_

No, see, it does give an excuse for gold digging. If a woman is going to be birthing and nurturing babies, she needs to make sure her mate can provide for them. The men who can demonstrate themselves to be the best providers will be the most successful with women. If you're following biology or endocrinology or whatever it is you're reading a lot about, then it also follows that women seek out the most optimum providers. If you're paying for dinner at Bob Evans and another guy is paying for dinner at the Four Seasons, than our old friend "socio-biology" indicates that the woman has every reason to reject you._


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> _Women are security minded and have a right to have some expectations from a man- I think anyway. Don't you? You are of course only bringing this up because you think I am superficial somehow in my support of fat women and my being against the unreasonable pressures all women are under.
> 
> People who know me here, by the way, know I have a decent job and I am tall and muscular- predators beware._



Neither I nor anyone else said you were superficial for liking fat women. In fact, you've presented your preference as something that is rooted in biology rather than just being something you like. What I and others have taken issue with is your contention that all women "should" be fat, that men that don't share your preference are stupid and not normal, that any woman wishing to change her body shape or size is a victim of brainwashing, and that a woman's self esteem is rightfully based in her ability to attract a man. I, and others, have also taken issue with your arrogant (yes, arrogant) assertions that women make choices about their bodies based primarily on what men think about them. If you read upthread, somebody mentioned the girl in the video said she was experiencing some joint pain. It is highly possible that women in your "preferred" size range of up to 500 pounds would experience some physical discomfort. I have to wonder if that matters to you or if you would simply continue to beat the "socio-biology" drum at the expense of somebody's health or well being.


----------



## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

> My take on you is that you are most certainly arrogant



Some of the time to be sure...


----------



## squurp (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> Reality check time:
> 
> Women are not born with low self esteem, it's created. Her bizarre mental state, or hatred of her body, is the same as every other woman and girl out there obsessed with losing weight, losing fat. It is the product of brainwashing by the endless sea of tv shows, magazines, hollywood, fashion designers, plastic surgeons etc etc.
> 
> ...




Actually, there is a fair amount of research that shows self esteem is pretty much established by age 5. So, sure not born with or without it, but things happen early on. Notice I also did not mention that self esteem has anything to do with weight. I suppose it can, but who am I to say? Self esteem issues can stem from abandonment feelings at a young age, absence of nurturing, a whole host of things. So, what happens after age 5? Well, there are studies that indicate self esteem can be affected later in life, but that it is extremely difficult for an individual to enact change. Also, therapies used to enact change are generally therapies that address internal conflicts. Changing external variables rarely has any effect on self esteem.


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## Waxwing (Mar 11, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> Neither I nor anyone else said you were superficial for liking fat women. In fact, you've presented your preference as something that is rooted in biology rather than just being something you like. What I and others have taken issue with is your contention that all women "should" be fat, that men that don't share your preference are stupid and not normal, that any woman wishing to change her body shape or size is a victim of brainwashing, and that a woman's self esteem is rightfully based in her ability to attract a man. I, and others, have also taken issue with your arrogant (yes, arrogant) assertions that women make choices about their bodies based primarily on what men think about them. If you read upthread, somebody mentioned the girl in the video said she was experiencing some joint pain. It is highly possible that women in your "preferred" size range of up to 500 pounds would experience some physical discomfort. I have to wonder if that matters to you or if you would simply continue to beat the "socio-biology" drum at the expense of somebody's health or well being.



Hear, hear!!!

:bow:


----------



## Tooz (Mar 11, 2007)

She's (chick in video clip) just crazy, we should stop spazzing out it.


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist (Mar 11, 2007)

While I do try to avoid becoming merely another harpy in a coven as it'll ultimately be perceived by you, wait a damn minute:



Russ2d said:


> Ok, getting my boots on for what I am about to step in:



So she's full of shit because she believes real self-esteem is not dependent on others, but a result of internal strength? Now SHE'S fucking crazy.

_Ok hmmmm, let's see what we have here- blah blah blah, I don't like what Russ said, he's a parody- arrogant and narrow-minded.. blah blah.. ok nothing here, let's move one_[/quote]

You've called her:

Full of shit

A liar

And implied she's not a proper woman. 

Simply because she doesn't think a woman's self-esteem should be entirely dependent on men. 




> Here's what I said: _Women are designed to carry a high percentage of fat (some more than others) and we love those women who are genetically programmed for a lot of fat. _



Uh, no. Not all women are designed to carry "a lot of fat." No woman is designed to weigh 800 lbs. 400 lbs.? Sure. And a healthy, sexy 400 lb. woman should be viewed as such, and her choices for her body should be respected.



> _Pretty straight forward, no back-pedaling, no need to search for hidden meanings that are not there. The rest is just made up, labeled implication, and applied against me. Basically Waxwing you don't read very well and like to make up stuff to argue against. Let's move on_



You said in an earlier post women with a desire to be thinner are just blind media worshippers, which is sort of funny, since most media tycoons are men. I mean, since people are social animals, shouldn't we seek to follow society's biggest social outlets according to you? 




> _Hmmm what do we have here? Inane, you're hard pressed, I'm not serious (I am)... this is interesting, I'm passing judgment on others... well yeah I am, I am passing judgment on those who are behind the GIANT industry brain-washing women and young girls to hate their bodies._



Brain-washing them because most actresses are a certain size? It's not accurate representation of what most people look like, and it's not diverse, but it's NOT brain-washing. "People in the media who brain-wash" are regular folks like you and me, trying to make a buck or mil. You know why most actresses are size 4/6? Because that's what sells, because that's what people want. Not everything advertised is a commercial success.




> _Ok, here we have it's ok to be fat, and then it's equally ok if someone doesn't stuff and then we personal preference, beautiful and then none of my business. Hmmm, I guess sharing my opinion is equivalent to butting into other people's business. In short Waxwing you don't like my opinion, nothing more._



I believe WW is hot for BHM ass if I remember correctly. That aside, no one is saying you shouldn't find the girl in the video absolutely smoking. I do. I don't think she needs to lose weight. However, when you say anyone is full of shit for thinking that women are creatures capable of self-esteem without being in a heterosexual relationship where they're sexually appreciated, then you start pissing people off.



> Well, my dear Waxwing, you have missed my points, made stuff up, and ultimately we disagree assuming you even know what I said in the first place.



I see only ONE bullshitter in here, and it's not her. WHERE did she make shit up? SHOW ME.



> _Again, My general point is that there is an order to nature and that the fat women develop has been demonized for monetary reasons- here lies one of the major reasons why so many females hate their bodies, suffer from eating and morphic disorders, are dieting as young as 10 years old and would rather be dead then fat. You call that personal choice? Dimensions, and other venues like it, have done a great service in showcasing that there are men who sexually desire fat women and this has helped many such women gain a lot of confidence they didn't have before, both personal and sexual._


_

Are you a woman with an eating disorder? No? Then shut the fuck up. You don't know what you're talking about. I do. Waxwing does. LoveBHM does. All you care is about women fitting YOUR sexual ideal. I do horrible stuff to my body because of men like you; I'd rather starve to death than have someone like you think about me in a sexual fashion. If anything, anorexia nervosa is about being LESS attractive, not that you'd know shit about that._


----------



## imfree (Mar 11, 2007)

mossystate said:


> I don't know..sounds like she wants to lose weight for herself..and I think much of what we humans do has at least one other person attached to our decision..so..*shrugs*. Hope she loses weight if that what she wants..whatever..lol..


 I agree, I think you nailed it. Judging by how she looks at 28....
whatever, it seems that she's plenty tall enough to carry it without
too much risk. I think she's very cute.


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

> In fact, you've presented your preference as something that is rooted in biology rather than just being something you like.



_It is rooted in biology. I've said in other threads FAs occupy the extreme end of the spectrum wanting very fat women but all men are attracted to soft feminine curves (female fat), whether it be a little or a lot- the separation is by degree only. Because of our culture we're just not honest about it anymore._


> What I and others have taken issue with is your contention that all women "should" be fat, that men that don't share your preference are stupid and not normal,



_I said men are stupid and not normal who don't like fat women? Where the hell are you getting this from? I said for the bizillionith time that women naturally carry a high percentage of fat (obviously relative to the male since there are only two sexes) and that this fact is being exploited. I did say I think on another thread that the soft feminine curves that women develop, which men are so attracted to, are fat and this is natural._



> that any woman wishing to change her body shape or size is a victim of brainwashing, and that a woman's self esteem is rightfully based in her ability to attract a man.



_Well aren't they? I mean come on, go into any supermarket check out line and what do you see? An endless, and I mean endless, sea of weight loss ads targeting women. Turn on the tv and what do you see? Go to the movies what do you see? The campaign for weight-loss targeted to females is one of the largest ever seen- it's friggin incredible- and it uses the greatest media technology to reach them yet devised. If you can't see this there's no point in going any further. As far as the self-esteem goes, I've answered this already. We don't live in a vacuum, men and women's esteems do reside, at least a goodly part, in their ability to find a mate who finds them attractive. If this wasn't true then people who can't find mates wouldn't be miserable. I'm just being honest here._


----------



## krystalltuerme (Mar 11, 2007)

squurp said:


> The real truth here is, if she has low self-esteem, she has low self esteem. This means you telling her she is beautiful, is completely meaningless. In order for her to believe you were sincere, would require her to have a level of self esteem that she may not be capable of.


And then you say,


squurp said:


> Actually, there is a fair amount of research that shows self esteem is pretty much established by age 5.


I think it's quite likely that a person's self-image may be significantly influenced by their under-five childhood experiences, but I also think that a person's self-image and self-esteem can be significantly impacted after that age (for better or for worse). Take, for instance, the propaganda that the diet industry bombards our society with. Personally, I think (and I think many would agree) that the myth that fat is ugly (as perpetuated by almost every source of mainstream media) is responsible for most cases of anorexia. I would argue that most exposure to this type of media takes place after the age of five, simply because the comprehension skills are far more developed after the age of five.

On the other hand, an initially negative self-image can certainly change (with much time and effort) to a positive one. My own girlfriend is proof of that. 

So I certainly don't think that this girl's self-esteem is set in stone. I also feel that if she were to become aware (if she's not) that there are men out there who find her attractive at that size, her attitude might change slightly.

Another issue of course, is her obvious belief that thin=happy. I would place good money that if she ever does get that weight off, she still won't be happy with her body. Maybe it'll be plastic surgery, or who knows what. She'll always be working towards that next step that will make her "beautiful."


----------



## Waxwing (Mar 11, 2007)

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TheSadeianLinguist again.


----------



## Waxwing (Mar 11, 2007)

krystalltuerme said:


> Personally, I think (and I think many would agree) that the myth that fat is ugly (as perpetuated by almost every source of mainstream media) is responsible for most cases of anorexia.



Who wouldn't agree with you is someone who has suffered with anorexia. 

I can definitely understand why it seems this way to people, because it seems like the reasonable explanation, but it's just not the case. 

I'm not going to speak for everyone who has had an ED, but I think that fat women are gorgeous. That didn't change things a lick for me. My disorder was/is about CONTROL. Not about fat, not about sexuality.


----------



## LoveBHMS (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> _
> Well aren't they? I mean come on, go into any supermarket check out line and what do you see? An endless, and I mean endless, sea of weight loss ads targeting women. Turn on the tv and what do you see? Go to the movies what do you see? The campaign for weight-loss targeted to females is one of the largest ever seen- it's friggin incredible- and it uses the greatest media technology to reach them yet devised. If you can't see this there's no point in going any further. As far as the self-esteem goes, I've answered this already. We don't live in a vacuum, men and women's esteems do reside, at least a goodly part, in their ability to find a mate who finds them attractive. If this wasn't true then people who can't find mates wouldn't be miserable. I'm just being honest here._


_

I guess this would explain Dan Marino's position as a spokesman for NutriSystem, because most women look up to ex-NFL quarterbacks as role models. To say nothing of when Tommy Lasorda and Bill Parcells were plugging Slim Fast. I'm sure some crack market researcher found that American women look to Bill Parcells for guidance on matters of appearance.

What do you consider the "greatest media technology yet devised"? I mean I see these ads in "Good Housekeeping" magazine and on tv commercials, but I think those venues fall short of being the greatest technology ever devised.

And if you go and look at the YouTube comments, the lady in the video says, point blank, that while it's nice that some of you like the way she looks, she does not, and that is what's important. And if you actually bother to watch the whole video, she says plenty of things that are indicative of having high self esteem--she says some very nice things about herself being sweet, sensitive and smart. She never says she hates herself or thinks she is ugly, she merely says she wants to lose weight.

I'll see if I can dig them up, but you have had several posts criticizing men that don't like BBW's. In fact the more you prattle on and on about how it's only natural to like BBW's, it more and more comes across as saying that men with different preferences are weird, going as they do against "biology."_


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## Butterbelly (Mar 11, 2007)

"I think this girl just needs the love of a good guy." Personally, this quote couldn't have offended me more. I'm always amused at how some people think that all people need is someone good and loving in their life. 

Maybe this woman wants to lose weight for herself...maybe she has low self-esteem. Maybe she feels that she is unhealthy. There could be a million different reasons why she wants to lose weight. 

But the one thing she definitely needs is LOVING HERSELF FIRST.


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## krystalltuerme (Mar 11, 2007)

Waxwing said:


> Who wouldn't agree with you is someone who has suffered with anorexia.
> 
> I can definitely understand why it seems this way to people, because it seems like the reasonable explanation, but it's just not the case.
> 
> I think that fat women are gorgeous. That didn't change things for me. My disorder was/is about CONTROL. Not about fat, not about sexuality.



I'm sorry; didn't mean to make an unfair/inaccurate generalization.


----------



## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

Hey people can disagree with me and I have no problem arguing with them because I have strong opinions but

Sadeianlinguist said:



> I do horrible stuff to my body because of men like you; I'd rather starve to death than have someone like you think about me in a sexual fashion. If anything, anorexia nervosa is about being LESS attractive, not that you'd know shit about that.




You know nothing about me, my experiences, the women in my life, nothing. 

How you read what I've said and came up with this is *sick.*


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## Waxwing (Mar 11, 2007)

krystalltuerme said:


> I'm sorry; didn't mean to make an unfair/inaccurate generalization.



It's absolutely ok; please don't think you offended me in any way. Like I said, I so see how it could seem that way to the 'outside world'. I think that I would think the same thing myself. It's just that the causes, while different for everyone, are I think most often about control than actual weight. It's a complicated issue.

I didn't mean to leap on your first post. WELCOME. We don't all bite. Well, we do, but we're fun.


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## krystalltuerme (Mar 11, 2007)

Waxwing said:


> I didn't mean to leap on your first post. WELCOME. We don't all bite. Well, we do, but we're fun.



No worries about jumping on me. I may look like a noob, but I've been lurking for YEARS....since before the board software was changed, etc etc....
But thank you. I definetely appreciate the welcome.


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> Hey people can disagree with me and I have no problem arguing with them because I have strong opinions but
> 
> Sadeianlinguist said:
> 
> ...




A LOT of people are getting that impression. Not just me, although alone I'm a good judge of people.

$5 you're single. Am I right? Am I?


----------



## Waxwing (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ, everything you've been saying gives the impression that you think that the attraction (or not) of the male species should dictate how we women treat our bodies. *That* is what seems sick.

If that isn't really what you think? Then make that clear.


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## RedHotAva (Mar 11, 2007)

Butterbelly said:


> "I think this girl just needs the love of a good guy." Personally, this quote couldn't have offended me more. I'm always amused at how some people think that all people need is someone good and loving in their life.
> 
> Maybe this woman wants to lose weight for herself...maybe she has low self-esteem. Maybe she feels that she is unhealthy. There could be a million different reasons why she wants to lose weight.
> 
> But the one thing she definitely needs is LOVING HERSELF FIRST.



PRECISELY.


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> _It is rooted in biology. I've said in other threads FAs occupy the extreme end of the spectrum wanting very fat women but all men are attracted to soft feminine curves (female fat), whether it be a little or a lot- the separation is by degree only. Because of our culture we're just not honest about it anymore._



Really? If liking fat woman is rooted purely in biology, then why do we have gay people? Or gay animals? Were those gay giraffes watching too much Fashion Week?




> _I said men are stupid and not normal who don't like fat women? Where the hell are you getting this from? I said for the bizillionith time that women naturally carry a high percentage of fat (obviously relative to the male since there are only two sexes) and that this fact is being exploited. I did say I think on another thread that the soft feminine curves that women develop, which men are so attracted to, are fat and this is natural._



Higher body fat does not constitute being 800 lbs. Women carry fat VERY differently also. Being a thin woman is not inherently unnatural for all.



> _Well aren't they? I mean come on, go into any supermarket check out line and what do you see? An endless, and I mean endless, sea of weight loss ads targeting women. Turn on the tv and what do you see? Go to the movies what do you see? The campaign for weight-loss targeted to females is one of the largest ever seen- it's friggin incredible- and it uses the greatest media technology to reach them yet devised. If you can't see this there's no point in going any further. As far as the self-esteem goes, I've answered this already. We don't live in a vacuum, men and women's esteems do reside, at least a goodly part, in their ability to find a mate who finds them attractive. If this wasn't true then people who can't find mates wouldn't be miserable. I'm just being honest here._



Weight loss shit and dieting is as related to eating disorders as monkey shit is to RC Cola. Two very different things entirely, for two different reasons.

And no, self-esteem is not about sexual attraction/outward sexual attention. If that were true, successful sluts would have the BEST self-esteem. Women who seek self-esteem through sex tend to have the lowest level.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Mar 11, 2007)

Well, we've learned something important today:

All women are evil and mindless, and must be restrained by proper men. 

Especially Waxwing though.


----------



## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

Waxwing you need to quote me and then ask a question related to the quote. I will be happy to answer then. I'm not playing word games with anyone.



> I'm not going to speak for everyone who has had an ED, but I think that fat women are gorgeous. That didn't change things a lick for me.



It is different for everyone. I am not sharing my experiences here, but others already know the difficulties I had with one of my best friends (female) who suffered for almost two years with Bulimia (and still struggles mentally).


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## RedHotAva (Mar 11, 2007)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Well, we've learned something important today:
> 
> All women are evil and mindless, and must be restrained by proper men.
> 
> Especially Waxwing though.



_especially_ the skinny ones, since they have been brainwashed and are unhealthy.


----------



## Waxwing (Mar 11, 2007)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Well, we've learned something important today:
> 
> All women are evil and mindless, and must be restrained by proper men.
> 
> Especially Waxwing though.



I feel chastened, and oh-so-feminine. 

*flutter*


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Mar 11, 2007)

RedHotAva said:


> _especially_ the skinny ones, since they have been brainwashed and are unhealthy.



You watch out. You're under 800 lbs. and therefore probably part of the dieting scam.


----------



## Butterbelly (Mar 11, 2007)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Well, we've learned something important today:
> 
> All women are evil and mindless, and must be restrained by proper men.
> 
> Especially Waxwing though.



Can someone please restrain me with silk scarves...I find that HOT...immensely HOT.  :huh:


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Mar 11, 2007)

Butterbelly said:


> Can someone please restrain me with silk scarves...I find that HOT...immensely HOT.  :huh:



Hell yes!  And chocolate. And feathers.


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## RedHotAva (Mar 11, 2007)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> You watch out. You're under 800 lbs. and therefore probably part of the dieting scam.



I suddenly find myself to be a freak of nature, no man will ever want me! Damn society!


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## Waxwing (Mar 11, 2007)

Chocolate? Silk scarves? Wow!

Suddenly things are gettin' all sexay in here just when I have to leave. Damn you all!

:wubu:


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 11, 2007)

*She's very pretty, nice beginning tummy fat... fattening her up would be divine*

Ok Russ, here is a quote from an older post of yours. Why is it considered ok for you to encourage a woman to gain weight (because you like fat girls) but not ok for a woman to want to lose weight if she does not enjoy being fat?


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

> Well, we've learned something important today:
> 
> All women are evil and mindless, and must be restrained by proper men.




Just keeps getting dumber and dumber...


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## RedHotAva (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> Just keeps getting dumber and dumber...



And what a fine facilitator to that you have been, Russ


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## Butterbelly (Mar 11, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> *She's very pretty, nice beginning tummy fat... fattening her up would be divine*
> 
> Ok Russ, here is a quote from an older post of yours. Why is it considered ok for you to encourage a woman to gain weight (because you like fat girls) but not ok for a woman to want to lose weight if she does not enjoy being fat?



Fantastic question!!!! I want to hear the answer to this!


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## krystalltuerme (Mar 11, 2007)

I think I'll go hide in another thread until my brain cells recover....
Anybody wanna take bets on how long it takes before it devolves into namecalling?

I'm serious....threads like these really do make my brain hurt.


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## AnnMarie (Mar 11, 2007)

Everyone, I do appreciate the _relatively_ upscale nature of this discussion so far, but I'd suggest time away, mission stated, etc. It's going to get bad, and at that point I'll have no choice but to close it. We're getting into REALLY heated areas for some people, and it won't improve from here.

I'd rather not if we can avoid it. 

Thanks. 

/mod


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## mouse (Mar 11, 2007)

For clarification, or in better words another point of view on anorexia:

Something I have battled with briefly (a year)... although bumelia has been much more prevelant over a large amount of time.

For me, it started with wanting to be more "attractive". While I did enjoy the control aspect of it, having people I thought were interested in me did help (and I do sometimes - or did - sleep with someone to make myself feel better).

I couldnt understand why I wasn't getting offers or dates, or even being hit on, for example at the bar. I also took phrases including "you look like your dying, I can count your ribs on your back" etc as COMPLIMENTS, if you can believe that, so I do believe that it can stem from more than one source.


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

My friend started from the same point. She wanted to be more "attractive". It was an identity problem. It took a while before we realized something was wrong with her and it got so bad that I almost had to intervene and force her to check into a hospital. It was a horrible experience. A friend of mine's sister also had an eating disorder and that too was all about being fat. In my opinion she never has really recovered.


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## Waxwing (Mar 11, 2007)

And Russ, our differences aside, I hope I didn't seem like I was presuming to know why your friend was struggling with bulimia, and I'm sorry she's going through that. It's a truly awful thing to have to fight through. 

You too, Mouse. I suppose that there are as many causes for EDs are there are people who have them. It's definitely not always one thing or the other. I think that I was just trying to clarify that it's not always about the body, or about attraction. If it were, my god this site could have healed me if I had found it in time.


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## Still a Skye fan (Mar 11, 2007)

~Shrugs~

She strikes me as a very lovely and intelligent young lady who's unfortunately not happy with her body.

She made a very clever tape and I wish her well in her efforts at losing weight...having aches at age 23 is probably a sign she needs to be healthier or more active.


Dennis


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> My friend started from the same point. She wanted to be more "attractive". It was an identity problem. It took a while before we realized something was wrong with her and it got so bad that I almost had to intervene and force her to check into a hospital. It was a horrible experience. A friend of mine's sister also had an eating disorder and that too was all about being fat. In my opinion she never has really recovered.



a woman who is not plus sized starts dating a guy. After a few dates he lets on that he is an FA, and really prefers larger women. She really likes him and hated being single. So she starts intentionally putting on weight. He tells her she looks more attractive. She gains more weight and he continues to express his approval. Now maybe she does not really like being heavy---her clothes don't fit anymore and she doesn't think she looks good. Oh, but her FA boyfriend does and she wants to hang onto him, after all, having a man's attention is very important.

In what way does the above scenario differ from a woman *losing* weight just to keep a man?


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist (Mar 11, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> a woman who is not plus sized starts dating a guy. After a few dates he lets on that he is an FA, and really prefers larger women. She really likes him and hated being single. So she starts intentionally putting on weight. He tells her she looks more attractive. She gains more weight and he continues to express his approval. Now maybe she does not really like being heavy---her clothes don't fit anymore and she doesn't think she looks good. Oh, but her FA boyfriend does and she wants to hang onto him, after all, having a man's attention is very important.
> 
> In what way does the above scenario differ from a woman *losing* weight just to keep a man?



He's not going to answer your questions. If he does, I'll buy you a Coke.


----------



## Waxwing (Mar 11, 2007)

some coke!?

Oh....A coke. sorry.

I think that LoveBHMS brings up a truly excellent point, and one that I've been thinking about for a while. I'd like to read others' opinions about this.


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## Tooz (Mar 11, 2007)

Pepsi is superior.


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

S. linguist and BHM, we are done. We see the world very differently and that's all there is to it. Move on because I am. I will not be responding to your posts again.

Waxwing we have our differences, but you are civil. Converse with me anytime.


----------



## RedHotAva (Mar 11, 2007)

Waxwing said:


> some coke!?
> 
> Oh....A coke. sorry.




You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Waxwing again.


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist (Mar 11, 2007)

^I want my damn soda, LovesBHM. You can't avoid me forever.


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## Wagimawr (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> S. linguist and BHM, we are done. We see the world very differently and that's all there is to it. Move on because I am. I will not be responding to your posts again.


Then you've lost.

LoveBHMS is asking you some very good questions that would probably help all of us if you were to answer them.


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## RedHotAva (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> S. linguist and BHM, we are done. We see the world very differently and that's all there is to it. Move on because I am. I will not be responding to your posts again.
> 
> Waxwing we have our differences, but you are civil. Converse with me anytime.



Oh my, Waxwing you are so lucky!


----------



## Mini (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> S. linguist and BHM, we are done. We see the world very differently and that's all there is to it. Move on because I am. I will not be responding to your posts again.



Yeah, damn them for raising pertinent issues. It's almost like they know what they're talking about. Perish the thought, eh? After all, they're just girls.

P.S. You just got schooled by girls.


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## Wagimawr (Mar 11, 2007)

Mini said:


> P.S. You just got schooled by girls.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mini again.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 11, 2007)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> He's not going to answer your questions. If he does, I'll buy you a Coke.



DIET COKE, Casey! I'm part of the brainwashed masses who are exposed to highly advanced technology telling me I must lose weight. If you try to buy me a regular Coke I'll assume you are attempting to make me gain weight because you find plus sized women attractive and want only to mold me to your preferred image.

(Plus I've always thought regular cola tastes too much like tree sap.)


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## RedHotAva (Mar 11, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> DIET COKE, Casey! I'm part of the brainwashed masses who are exposed to highly advanced technology telling me I must lose weight. If you try to buy me a regular Coke I'll assume you are attempting to make me gain weight because you find plus sized women attractive and want only to mold me to your preferred image.
> 
> (Plus I've always thought regular cola tastes too much like tree sap.)



But with all the weird chemicals in diet sodas, you might get brain cancer or something. Although, brain cancer is definately worth not getting fat. That's what they say...


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> S. linguist and BHM, we are done. We see the world very differently and that's all there is to it. Move on because I am. I will not be responding to your posts again.
> 
> Waxwing we have our differences, but you are civil. Converse with me anytime.



Wait. She lied about things you said and is full of shit, remember? Want me to pull up that post? I don't understand! Now she's civil? I'm confused!


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Mar 11, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> DIET COKE, Casey! I'm part of the brainwashed masses who are exposed to highly advanced technology telling me I must lose weight. If you try to buy me a regular Coke I'll assume you are attempting to make me gain weight because you find plus sized women attractive and want only to mold me to your preferred image.
> 
> (Plus I've always thought regular cola tastes too much like tree sap.)



Ryan says if regular cola tastes like tree sap, diet cola tastes like shitty, watered-down tree sap! (But guess who has a fridge full of Diet Pepsi ANYWAY? HAHA! Ryan says it's not his though. I think he secretly covets it.) I like the non-sweet taste on occasion; it's more refreshing. I sometimes like regular soda though. I go between.


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

> I'd like to read others' opinions about this.



You asked so I will give my opinion. Whether a woman gains weight or loses weight for a man or whether he does something physically for her is a private negotiation between them. If they're compatiable more power to them.

The problem I have is with the *culture *at large. It is placing huge, incredible pressure on women to be thin, and since women naturally develop "plump up" (relative) with fat there are many of all ages who are being adversely affected. The environment is not neutral by any means and pushes women into a fight with their own bodies.

Am I an FA and do I love the idea of a woman fattening? The answer is yes. Would I want to live in a culture that celebrates fat women as a standard of beauty... sure I would- but a neutral environment that recognizes that a woman's fat is a part of her biology and leaves her alone is one in which I would be very content with. Much more so then what we have now.


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## Tragdor (Mar 11, 2007)

a picture is worth a thousand words


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## Eclectic_Girl (Mar 11, 2007)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Ryan says if regular cola tastes like tree sap, diet cola tastes like shitty, watered-down tree sap! (But guess who has a fridge full of Diet Pepsi ANYWAY? HAHA! Ryan says it's not his though. I think he secretly covets it.) I like the non-sweet taste on occasion; it's more refreshing. I sometimes like regular soda though. I go between.



Well, of course. You're bi-Pepsual.


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## mossystate (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> _It is rooted in biology. I've said in other threads FAs occupy the extreme end of the spectrum wanting very fat women but all men are attracted to soft feminine curves (female fat), whether it be a little or a lot- the separation is by degree only. Because of our culture we're just not honest about it anymore._
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Jon Blaze (Mar 11, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> *She's very pretty, nice beginning tummy fat... fattening her up would be divine*
> 
> Ok Russ, here is a quote from an older post of yours. Why is it considered ok for you to encourage a woman to gain weight (because you like fat girls) but not ok for a woman to want to lose weight if she does not enjoy being fat?



Wonderful point!!!

Many people here brand people when they want to lose weight, but commend them for gaining. When that happens, I consider it a corruption of the community. I can consider Size Acceptance to be virtuous, but I can't consider Fat Admiration to be because too many people in the community are obsessed with gaining, rather than love of their partners being large at some varying degree.


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

> You have taken what tends to have some truth to it in terms of biology and you twist it into some pretzel that exists in your head so what you like is ....it.



Nah, I've been just piecing a few things together- the big picture as it were. Sorry that you don't like it.


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## William (Mar 11, 2007)

Hi 

I think that lady just needs some friends or a invite to Dimensions Online 

William




Russ2d said:


> Nah, I've been just piecing a few things together.


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## RedHotAva (Mar 11, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> Nah, I've been just piecing a few things together- the big picture as it were. Sorry that you don't like it.



It's excellent to know that someone really does have a supreme and infallible knowledge of the big picture. Nice to meet you, God.


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## MisticalMisty (Mar 11, 2007)

You are all wrong..now everyone shut up..the horse is dead..lol


Geez louise people...


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## AnnMarie (Mar 11, 2007)

Second and last request of everyone to let this go because it's just getting to be about nothing more than who gets the last word. A thread won't sit just so people can go round and round over the same crap - you've all made your points. 

Thank you very much.

/mod


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

> Ok Russ, here is a quote from an older post of yours. Why is it considered ok for you to encourage a woman to gain weight (because you like fat girls) but not ok for a woman to want to lose weight if she does not enjoy being fat?
> 
> Wonderful point!!!



Well Mr. Blaze we are on the weight board which I thought was for the exploration of weight gain fantasies so I wrote my desire for such things. As for the why it is not ok for a woman to lose if she wants to stuff that was in reference to the youtube video. My only problem there is that, in my opinion, she seems to be someone who has been negatively influenced as opposed to someone making a life decision. That's just my opinion, you'll have to see the video for yourself.


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## NovemberRomeo (Mar 11, 2007)

Butterbelly said:


> "I think this girl just needs the love of a good guy." Personally, this quote couldn't have offended me more. I'm always amused at how some people think that all people need is someone good and loving in their life.
> 
> Maybe this woman wants to lose weight for herself...maybe she has low self-esteem. Maybe she feels that she is unhealthy. There could be a million different reasons why she wants to lose weight.
> 
> But the one thing she definitely needs is LOVING HERSELF FIRST.




Well I am definitely sorry to offend so many people, but she came off as a lonely very insecure human being longing for some sort of attention and affection. I accept your critiques as valid ones, but again, I know plenty of people in this world that have been treated poorly by people in general and sometimes all it takes is one good one to set them straight. 

I'm not a shrink, I called it as I saw it. I am sorry that you were so (easily) offended, as it was not my intention. 
Sorry to kick the bees nest, I thought it was full of honey, instead it was full of bees.


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## Russ2d (Mar 11, 2007)

> Second and last request of everyone to let this go because it's just getting to be about nothing more than who gets the last word. A thread won't sit just so people can go round and round over the same crap - you've all made your points.
> 
> Thank you very much.




No problem here, I was actually just popping in, expressing my opinion, and popping out as I am working on other stuff. I will vacate the thread so they can go on about whatever 

Exiting now...


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## MissToodles (Mar 11, 2007)

I don't get it. I assume most people are here for affirmation whether in their preferences or in their size. While it's flawed thinking to depend on others to fix us, raise ourself esteem, we don't exist within a bubble. To think the constant barrage of negativity regarding body size wouldn't have a negative effect is insane. Why else would this and other websites exist then?


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Mar 11, 2007)

MissToodles said:


> I don't get it. I assume most people are here for affirmation whether in their preferences or in their size. While it's flawed thinking to depend on others to fix us, raise ourself esteem, we don't exist within a bubble. To think the constant barrage of negativity regarding body size wouldn't have a negative effect is insane. Why else would this and other websites exist then?



This is true.

But come on. A guy to have sex with doesn't resolve all the bad feelings.

I think issues are getting confused:

Self-esteem/dieting

Eating disorders

Different things.


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## MissToodles (Mar 11, 2007)

I just skimmed the thread.


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## Jon Blaze (Mar 11, 2007)

MissToodles said:


> I just skimmed the thread.



I did too. It's all gravy.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 11, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> a woman who is not plus sized starts dating a guy. After a few dates he lets on that he is an FA, and really prefers larger women. She really likes him and hated being single. So she starts intentionally putting on weight. He tells her she looks more attractive. She gains more weight and he continues to express his approval. Now maybe she does not really like being heavy---her clothes don't fit anymore and she doesn't think she looks good. Oh, but her FA boyfriend does and she wants to hang onto him, after all, having a man's attention is very important.
> 
> In what way does the above scenario differ from a woman *losing* weight just to keep a man?



I concur- I have said time and again, gaining weight to please a man is no better than losing it to please one.
A guy that says only women that weigh over 400 pounds are beautiful and only they are worth my attention is just as bad as the guys saying that only women that weigh less than 125 pounds are "worthy".
Sure both guys are entitled to their preferences, but they have no right to say that someone who is not their preference is "less" in some way. Simply say "She's not my cup of tea" and stfu.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 11, 2007)

Wagimawr said:


> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mini again.



I got him for you.....


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## Jes (Mar 12, 2007)

biackrlng said:


> SHe is gorgeous and will make some FA very happy
> 
> humm I am an FA :smitten:
> 
> [email protected]



Really? I'm guessing not. She doesn't want to be fat. Whether she will ever not be fat none of us can know, but have you read any of the posts from people here who are involved with partners who don't want to be fat? They don't sound 'very happy' to me. 

This woman says she has body aches from being fat, and doesn't want to feel that way. She has other motivations as well. I'll admit I didn't watch the entire clip (maybe halfway or so) but does she say that she doesn't want other people to be fat? Or is she talking about herself and what she wants for her own body? 

I don't know that weight loss is easy, that being on a reality show will help her achieve her goals, but those things are her choice. I have to say that the comments to her vid telling her that men think she's pretty and that some guys want to be her boyfriend are all missing the boat. She wants what she wants, and she's not trying to inflict that on anyone else in any direct way. Is that somehow not ok? Is the fact that some responders are into fat women and don't want her to change any better? 

Just my viewpoint. And again, I'll fully admit I didn't see any 'being fat means I'm a very bad person, no one should be fat' comments that might have come after the first half of the clip.


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## Jes (Mar 12, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> Second and last request of everyone to let this go because it's just getting to be about nothing more than who gets the last word. A thread won't sit just so people can go round and round over the same crap - you've all made your points.
> 
> Thank you very much.
> 
> /mod



uh...i didn't see this 'til now, sorry. Felt compelled to offer my opinion on the post I quoted, but if we're not talking about this anymore, sorry.

i can't keep up with you crazy kids, today!


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## BackNickelBack (Mar 12, 2007)

to page 3 in this thread, but seriously guys. All of this bickering and argueing about each other's opinion is insane. All this proves is that maybe FAs aren't her panacea either.


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## Russ2d (Mar 12, 2007)

> Really? I'm guessing not. She doesn't want to be fat. Whether she will ever not be fat none of us can know, but have you read any of the posts from people here who are involved with partners who don't want to be fat? They don't sound 'very happy' to me.
> 
> This woman says she has body aches from being fat, and doesn't want to feel that way. She has other motivations as well. I'll admit I didn't watch the entire clip (maybe halfway or so) but does she say that she doesn't want other people to be fat? Or is she talking about herself and what she wants for her own body?
> 
> ...



No Jes, all this was about is a few FAs expressed their opinion that this girl is beautiful and doesn't need to lose any weight, and that most of us who responded don't believe she wants to do so because 'she wants what she wants'. I believe, as I have found to be the case with virtually every girl I have ever met who wanted to lose weight, she's doing it because of societal pressure. 

Before the circus came to town and released the offense monkeys that's all that was going on. I would urge her not to be part of this "reality show" anyway- they are made fools of. People at my work watch the show- yes, I have cable at work  and laugh at these people (I am not one of them).


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## Jes (Mar 12, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> . I believe, as I have found to be the case with virtually every girl I have ever met who wanted to lose weight, she's doing it because of societal pressure.
> 
> ).



thanks for your opinion (said genuinely, not derisively). My feeling is that regardless of motivation, the choice is hers, and that those people talking about partnering with her would ultimately not be made happy by that union unless they're the types who want to keep trying to convince someone of something she ain't buyin' (nor would she be happy).

And I say: let her be on tv! Her audition tape is great and she's genuine and well spoken, so the producers will probably love her. To bastardize Warhol, everyone will get to look like an ass for 15 minutes. I'm not a fan of the fatty shows, but I find most of that stuff to be vapid.

However, I love Project Runway and Judge Judy more than life itself. For rills.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 12, 2007)

Russ, the whole dust up here was over women taking offense to your belief that a woman's self esteem is/was contingent on her ability to attract a man. Self esteem comes from within, not from a bunch of FA's saying "Oh, really, I'd tap that."

Beyond that, and Jes, you really should watch the whole vid., there is zero evidence that this woman has low self esteem. In fact, she talks about what she thinks her good points are---she says she thinks she is smart and sensitive. She in no way comes off as having low self esteem. 

And furthermore, there is no indication either that she is single or that she chooses to lose weight to attract a man. How, exactly, do you KNOW she is single? She never says "If i were skinny I could get a date" or "I hate how men never notice me." If you and other FA's think she is pretty, why do you assume you does not have a boyfriend?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 12, 2007)

Jes said:


> thanks for your opinion (said genuinely, not derisively). My feeling is that regardless of motivation, the choice is hers, and that those people talking about partnering with her would ultimately not be made happy by that union unless they're the types who want to keep trying to convince someone of something she ain't buyin' (nor would she be happy).
> 
> And I say: let her be on tv! Her audition tape is great and she's genuine and well spoken, so the producers will probably love her. To bastardize Warhol, everyone will get to look like an ass for 15 minutes. I'm not a fan of the fatty shows, but I find most of that stuff to be vapid.
> 
> However, I love Project Runway and Judge Judy more than life itself. For rills.




Judge Judy is the bomb- I sometimes even get off my computer to watch her.... and THAT is saying a lot!


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## Jon Blaze (Mar 12, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> Well Mr. Blaze we are on the weight board which I thought was for the exploration of weight gain fantasies so I wrote my desire for such things. As for the why it is not ok for a woman to lose if she wants to stuff that was in reference to the youtube video. My only problem there is that, in my opinion, she seems to be someone who has been negatively influenced as opposed to someone making a life decision. That's just my opinion, you'll have to see the video for yourself.



You speak as if you are omnipotent. Plus I know your fantasies go much farther than this board. That being the case: I'm speaking more general.
I watched, and posted that video somewhere else the same day she added it.

I give up now though. Everyone is saying comments like she shouldn't be a size 6, without asking whether or not she wants to do this for herself, or her health. I've already gotten her approval, so I'm wishing her the best of luck. 

If you have the right to push someone to gain weight (whether they like it or not), I have the right to guide someone as they lose it. Did I mention I'm a FA?

This weight loss goes much farther than the people around her. Right now all she really needs is to learn to love herself more.

This is my last message. Private Messages on this subject will be replied to.


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## waldo (Mar 12, 2007)

squurp said:


> Actually, there is a fair amount of research that shows self esteem is pretty much established by age 5. So, sure not born with or without it, but things happen early on. Notice I also did not mention that self esteem has anything to do with weight. I suppose it can, but who am I to say? Self esteem issues can stem from abandonment feelings at a young age, absence of nurturing, a whole host of things. So, what happens after age 5? Well, there are studies that indicate self esteem can be affected later in life, but that it is extremely difficult for an individual to enact change. Also, therapies used to enact change are generally therapies that address internal conflicts. Changing external variables rarely has any effect on self esteem.



Amongst all the personal attacks and bickering, an interesting point has been brought up in this thread. I am amused by the sadly misguided viewpoint being put forth on this thread that a fat person with low self-esteem can not be positively influenced by fat acceptance advocates. This is only true to the extent that the person is not open to listening to what the fat acceptance folks have to say. In other words, you can only help those who want to help themselves. For those who might scoff at the idea that Dimensions and other fat acceptance organizations could help improve the self-esteem of fat people, please check out this thread.


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## waldo (Mar 12, 2007)

Waxwing said:


> Russ, everything you've been saying gives the impression that you think that the attraction (or not) of the male species should dictate how we women treat our bodies. *That* is what seems sick.
> 
> If that isn't really what you think? Then make that clear.



It shouldn't but it does. The problem is that when someone points out a truth, others often jump to the conclusion that he/she believes this is something that should be the case. It's the 'shoot the messenger' mentality. Those who prefer to sweep these unfortunate truths under the carpet get along much better in this world.


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## Waxwing (Mar 12, 2007)

waldo said:


> It shouldn't but it does. The problem is that when someone points out a truth, others often jump to the conclusion that he/she believes this is something that should be the case. It's the 'shoot the messenger' mentality. Those who prefer to sweep these unfortunate truths under the carpet get along much better in this world.


 
Waldo, if you really had read the entire thread, you would see that it was never an issue of shooting the messenger. It was a question of wanting to clarify other poster's views, and really get to the heart of WHY people feel the way they do. Also, women were giving their perspective on BEING WOMEN and arguing with men who didn't seem to get it. It was the men telling us what were "truths" that ruffled some feathers. 

*But you know what?* I'm cool with everyone here, and I'm really glad I got to discuss this with a number of people with different views. 

Jezz M. Crow I shouldn't have even opened this thread again. Okay, I'm out. *For the love of all that's holy let's let it die*. I'm guilty of this too, so I'm taping my cyber mouth shut now. 

Nothing to see here....


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## tinkerbell (Mar 12, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> You know, saying a woman would stop wanting to lose weight if only she had the love of a good man is just wrong. The point is that *she* isn't satisfied with her size. It's wrong of us FA's (and I've been there and realized i was wrong) to believe that all fat people need to start liking themselves is to find out that there are potential partners that like their size.
> 
> Whether an FA likes her or not is irrelevent, she doesn't like her weight. It's wrong to think that our attraction or attention would be so vital to somebody else's self image that the mere fact that we like how they look would be so transformative. In fact, nobody's feelings of self worth should be contingent on the ability to find a partner. What if she dated an FA, felt good about herself due to his attentions, and then they broke up? Then where would her head be?
> 
> ...



Great post. I want to lose weight, and it has nothing to do with my boyfriend at all. I have a great guy who loves me for me, and loves my body - still isn't going to make ME happy about it. If she wants to loose weight, and is happier at a smaller size, then thats great for her. If she changes her mind and is happy at the size she is now, then also great for her.

 I guess I should have read the entire thread  Interesting thread - there were many other great posts too


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 13, 2007)

waldo said:


> It shouldn't but it does. The problem is that when someone points out a truth, others often jump to the conclusion that he/she believes this is something that should be the case. It's the 'shoot the messenger' mentality. Those who prefer to sweep these unfortunate truths under the carpet get along much better in this world.



I think one point still needs to be made as to what the OP said. If you actually watch the video, there is no indication that the woman in it either has low self esteem or lacks a man in her life. This whole thread has been predicated on the question of whether or not an FA can raise a woman's self esteem, but nobody (myself included) ever stopped to wonder why she was considered to have low self esteem. And if all the FA's on this thread think she's pretty and would date her, they maybe should consider that she may already be taken. She never says that she is single or doesn't get dates or attention from men.


----------



## TheSadeianLinguist (Mar 13, 2007)

LoveBHMS said:


> I think one point still needs to be made as to what the OP said. If you actually watch the video, there is no indication that the woman in it either has low self esteem or lacks a man in her life. This whole thread has been predicated on the question of whether or not an FA can raise a woman's self esteem, but nobody (myself included) ever stopped to wonder why she was considered to have low self esteem. And if all the FA's on this thread think she's pretty and would date her, they maybe should consider that she may already be taken. She never says that she is single or doesn't get dates or attention from men.



Part of what gets me: (Some) FAs assume they're the ONLY ones who'd be interested in this woman, like they're REAL rarities to find an attractive, fat woman, well, er, attractive... She probably has assets other than being fat, you know, like seeming to naturally have a pleasing body shape, a very pretty, youthful face, BITCHIN' skin, a strange but clearly there sense o' humor, creativity. So what if this woman got down to 145-160 and loved it? Would that make her a shill?

Now, do I think it's an asinine goal to "feel thin?" Ayup. Do I think it's damn near impossible for a fat person to become thin? Ayup. Does it mean she has low self-esteem and she's thinking she's bound to die a spinster? Nope.


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## cactopus (Mar 13, 2007)

Wagimawr said:


> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Mini again.



I think I just got schooled by the board... is this some sort of automated response when you try to rep someone twice?... otherwise how do you know?

Excuse my duhNess and not RTFM'in.


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## Mini (Mar 13, 2007)

cactopus said:


> I think I just got schooled by the board... is this some sort of automated response when you try to rep someone twice?... otherwise how do you know?
> 
> Excuse my duhNess and not RTFM'in.



Every time you rep someone you need to rep something like 10 different people before you can do that person again. Saves abuse, I guess.


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## Russ2d (Mar 13, 2007)

> thanks for your opinion (said genuinely, not derisively). My feeling is that regardless of motivation, the choice is hers, and that those people talking about partnering with her would ultimately not be made happy by that union unless they're the types who want to keep trying to convince someone of something she ain't buyin' (nor would she be happy).
> 
> And I say: let her be on tv! Her audition tape is great and she's genuine and well spoken, so the producers will probably love her. To bastardize Warhol, everyone will get to look like an ass for 15 minutes. I'm not a fan of the fatty shows, but I find most of that stuff to be vapid.
> 
> However, I love Project Runway and Judge Judy more than life itself. For rills.




And back at you. I feel a little differently about the situation than you, but I respect your opinion as you have respected mine.


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## Russ2d (Mar 13, 2007)

> Russ, the whole dust up here was over women taking offense to your belief that a woman's self esteem is/was contingent on her ability to attract a man. Self esteem comes from within, not from a bunch of FA's saying "Oh, really, I'd tap that."



Is this my quote (below) that upset you so much BHM or was there another one?


_"Human beings are a social animal which interacts with others. We do not live in a vacuum with some amorphous self-esteem.

Dimensions has done more to help counter the incredibly negative pressures on fat women because it showcases men who are sexually attracted to them. How many fat women have had their eyes pleasantly opened when discovering the existence of Dimensions and of FAs? - when before they felt alone and left out. Yes, we FAs are VERY RELEVANT (I agree with you Waldo).

Again humans are social and sexual beings. To suggest that being sexually attractive to the opposite sex is unimportant and disconnected to one's sense of self is rather ludicrous."_


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## AnnMarie (Mar 13, 2007)

Mini said:


> Every time you rep someone you need to rep something like 10 different people before you can do that person again. Saves abuse, I guess.



It's actually a complicated equation of people and points and all sorts of shit, and it changes as your rep and their rep changes (exactly as you said, to avoid abuse) but yes... you're right... spread means just that.


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## Chimpi (Mar 13, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> spread means just that.



Margarin won't do?


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## OfftoOtherPlaces (Mar 13, 2007)

Now come on. How does it sound if I approach you the way you're approaching this girl on youtube? Tell me if this makes any sense. It's basically what you're doing:

"I think Russ2d just needs the love of a good, skinny woman. His attraction to large women (and pompous demeanor) clearly stems from underlying feelings of social inadequacy and an innate awareness of his inferior genes, as demonstrated by his (probable) unmarketability in the mating arena. These conflicts will be resolved if a woman dates him, causing him to feel adequate. If the woman is skinny, he will additionally be cured of his irrational adiposity fixation, a sign of maternal dependence relating back to days of infancy spent suckling at his mother's breast."


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## Russ2d (Mar 13, 2007)

> You speak as if you are omnipotent. Plus I know your fantasies go much farther than this board. That being the case: I'm speaking more general.
> I watched, and posted that video somewhere else the same day she added it.
> 
> I give up now though. Everyone is saying comments like she shouldn't be a size 6, without asking whether or not she wants to do this for herself, or her health. I've already gotten her approval, so I'm wishing her the best of luck.
> ...



You seem like a genuinely nice guy Blaze- we'd never get along. We may disagree on a few things but you certainly have the right to express your opinion, "guide" someone to gain weight, lose or stay the same. It's between you and the woman you're intimate with and it's nobody elses business. And I am omnipotent.


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## Russ2d (Mar 13, 2007)

> "I think Russ2d just needs the love of a good, skinny woman. His attraction to large women (and pompous demeanor) clearly stems from underlying feelings of social inadequacy and an innate awareness of his inferior genes, as demonstrated by his (probable) unmarketability in the mating arena. These conflicts will be resolved if a woman dates him, causing him to feel adequate. If the woman is skinny, he will additionally be cured of his irrational adiposity fixation, a sign of maternal dependence relating back to days of infancy spent suckling at his mother's breast."



I think this is directed at me. I'm not exactly sure how it fits but it's funny stuff, I like it, hehe.

As far as the youtube girl goes I'll break it down.

I think she is a beautiful woman as is and doesn't need to lose any fat. Her fat is beautiful, she is beautiful. That is my opinion, and I told her so.

My opinion is also that she wants to lose weight because of outside pressure... she mocks herself, hates her 'fat face' and body... 
I have a lot of experience with women in this area and again it's my opinion.

I don't know if she's single or married, I don't care. My only point was someone said that self-esteem is not connected to sexual attraction and that's a crock. Is it the be all end all- no, but it's a good slice of the pie. My opinion

And if you don't agree with my opinions then you'll have to deal with being wrong


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## OfftoOtherPlaces (Mar 13, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> I think this is directed at me. I'm not exactly sure how it fits but it's funny stuff, I like it, hehe.
> 
> As far as the youtube girl goes I'll break it down.
> 
> ...



Sometimes, you know, it's fun to be wrong.


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## Jon Blaze (Mar 13, 2007)

Russ2d said:


> You seem like a genuinely nice guy Blaze- we'd never get along. We may disagree on a few things but you certainly have the right to express your opinion, "guide" someone to gain weight, lose or stay the same. It's between you and the woman you're intimate with and it's nobody elses business. And I am omnipotent.



It is not my will: It is the will of my partner. I will voice my opinion with either movement of the scale (Though it must be a major shift for me to really think about it), but only when we agree will I aid such a cause.

I'm wishing Kerry luck with the weight loss because the majority of people that posted comments asked her not to lose weight without a reason for their statement. People like Phalloidium were nice enough to go beyond simply saying they wish for her not to lose weight (Mainly due to her beauty), but many did not. I'm sure many would see her as ideal with even more weight, but risk scaring her away with those kind of comments.

Being fat isn't something Kerry likes. She has to learn that being thinner isn't going to solve all of her problems, but for all I know she might learn to love herself with the first drop of the scale.

Please send your next message (Should you wish to continue [And anyone else that has something to say to me]) to my PM. I don't want to get on the bad side of the mods.


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## LoveBHMS (Mar 13, 2007)

What numerous BBW's have said on this thread is the self esteem must come within. Basing it on anything external such as the approval of another is a dangerous proposition at best. Looks can be fleeting. 

Let's set aside size for a moment. Consider a beautiful woman. She gets lots of attention from men, turns heads on the street, gets asked out on lots of dates. She feels great about herself; every turned head or offer of a night out reinforces her self worth. Then she gets into a car accident and her face is disfigured. She developes somes sort of hormonal imbalance that gives her acne and makes her hair thin. She gets cancer and the chemo makes her hair fall out and maybe robs her of a breast. Suddenly, the heads no longer turn. Men don't want to take a bald woman to their company Christmas party or look across the table at an acne scared face. Now what becomes of her self esteem---based as it was in that ability to attract men. She gets depressed and no longer feels like a worthwhile human being, after all, her dance card is now empty. By your thinking Russ, she is totally justified in feeling this way, after all, we don't live in a 'vacuum' and the ability to be sexually attractive to the opposite sex is of great important.

Let's look at another target of the mass media brainwashing: aging women. Plastic surgeons advertise in magazines right next to NutriSystem. Cosmetics companies promote "anti-aging" skin care. Ads for Botox appear next to ads for Oil of Olay moisturizer that promises to fight "the 7 signs of aging." Hair dyes commercials promise you can say goodbye to greys that make you look older. Actresses well into their late 40's and 50's appear on magazine covers airbrushed beyond belief---the message being if you're 52 you can still look 30.
The brainwashing is effective and women know they are in a race against time---they only have a small window of opportunity. Those "fluffy curves" whose purpose is to promote fertility are what interest men; therefore aging and the reduced promise of fertility will *necessarily and in your opinion rightfully so* make an aging woman dislike herself. 

"I no longer can promise fertility, men are no longer interested, so I feel terrible about myself." Russ, do you realize that your mindset makes this statement totally appropriate and in fact, correct?


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## AnnMarie (Mar 13, 2007)

Chimpi said:


> Margarin won't do?



Butter. Only.


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## imfree (Mar 13, 2007)

My words should be the last in this thread. It is unethical to even so
much as encourage a BBW sized-woman to remain that size if it is not in her
heart to do so. I use my marriage, a continuous 14year-long emergency, to
illustrate the point! My ex despised her obesity, she had been unmercifully
abused over it during childhood.
I'm truly an FA, so this part hurts me the most. Obesity is recognized
by medical and legal authorities as being dangerous. I love weighing 400lbs 
at 5'8" tall and I responsibly manage my blood sugar and blood pressure. I
am very like to survive my obesity to an amazingly old age! I seek to be
united with a woman who feels the same way about her body. Unless a 
woman has a self image like mine, encouraging a her to gain weight or 
maintain an "unhealthy level of obesity" is violence against women, therefore
legally considered to be abuse. This should put an end to the discussion.
Seek ye the truth and the truth shall set you free.
In All Honesty,
Edgar


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## Waxwing (Mar 13, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> It's actually a complicated equation of people and points and all sorts of shit, and it changes as your rep and their rep changes (exactly as you said, to avoid abuse) but yes... you're right... spread means just that.



All this time I thought that Dimensions was tellin' me to spread 'em, and I was more than happy to comply. Damn, is my face red. :blush: 

note: this post is proof that Robin can sometimes refrain from arguing. That is all.


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## waldo (Mar 13, 2007)

imfree said:


> My words should be the last in this thread. It is unethical to even so
> much as encourage a BBW sized-woman to remain that size if it is not in her
> heart to do so. I use my marriage, a continuous 14year-long emergency, to
> illustrate the point! My ex despised her obesity, she had been unmercifully
> ...



Well then we should just close up the Weight Board altogether. And if encouraging women to maintain an 'unhealthy level of obesity' is violence against women, then God help NAAFA. I would like to see a reply to this post from NFA with his weight-loss doesn't work and fat doesn't affect health shtick. Haven't seen him posting here much lately.


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## AnnMarie (Mar 13, 2007)

imfree said:


> My words should be the last in this thread.



There are people here who can handle the decisions about when threads end and what is the last word.


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Mar 13, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> There are people here who can handle the decisions about when threads end and what is the last word.



Would that be me, while blaring "Eye of the Tiger" out of a boom box and slamming my fist on the table? 

I've done it before.


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## Mini (Mar 13, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> There are people here who can handle the decisions about when threads end and what is the last word.



Like me! I am the sole arbiter of length and worth.


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## imfree (Mar 13, 2007)

waldo said:


> Well then we should just close up the Weight Board altogether. And if encouraging women to maintain an 'unhealthy level of obesity' is violence against women, then God help NAAFA. I would like to see a reply to this post from NFA with his weight-loss doesn't work and fat doesn't affect health shtick. Haven't seen him posting here much lately.


 No, no, what I mean is "to encourage a woman to maintain an unhealthy
level of obesity against her will, is abuse". My will is such that I like weighing
400lbs and there are women who like being likewise large. I am refering mostly
to any attempt to control a person's weight against that person's free will. I
defend my right to be this heavy. I am VERY attracted to SSBBWs. No one
really even knows if obesity is all that harmful, anyway. I am probably one of
a very small group of "morbidly obese" people who have not damaged their
own bodies by weight-cycling and other dangerous weight loss attempts.
With so few undamaged people to study, it seems that a scientifically 
accurate conclusion could not me made.


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## AnnMarie (Mar 13, 2007)

TheSadeianLinguist said:


> Would that be me, while blaring "Eye of the Tiger" out of a boom box and slamming my fist on the table?
> 
> I've done it before.





Mini said:


> Like me! I am the sole arbiter of length and worth.




I'd cautiously take either of you in a pinch.


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## Mini (Mar 13, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> I'd cautiously take either of you in a pinch.



Admit it, you'd be amused to see me with mod powers.


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## Eclectic_Girl (Mar 13, 2007)

I'd cautiously pinch either of you.


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## AnnMarie (Mar 13, 2007)

Mini said:


> Admit it, you'd be amused to see me with mod powers.



I very reluctantly admit it, but I'd miss a lot of the other people on the boards once you banned them all.


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## Mini (Mar 13, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> I very reluctantly admit it, but I'd miss a lot of the other people on the boards once you banned them all.



Where's the fun in banning when I can sell their personal information for profit?


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## TheSadeianLinguist (Mar 13, 2007)

Eclectic_Girl said:


> I'd cautiously pinch either of you.



Caution is good. I have two older brothers; I pinch back!


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## AnnMarie (Mar 13, 2007)

Mini said:


> Where's the fun in banning when I can sell their personal information for profit?



You have much to learn, Grasshopper. 

We don't have the goods on peeps.


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## Mini (Mar 13, 2007)

AnnMarie said:


> You have much to learn, Grasshopper.
> 
> We don't have the goods on peeps.



Oh well, plan B was rampant banning anyway.


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## FreonTrip (Mar 14, 2007)

...I was going to make a post in response to Russ2d, but it's beside the point. So instead, I'll just focus on poor Kerry - she's supposed to be the subject of this whole mess after all.

The girl clearly isn't happy with her body the way it is. Some of our objections notwithstanding (not the least of which are mine), if she's experiencing joint pain when she's close to my age then some kind of lifestyle change is in order. If she could go to the trouble to create this video - with the costumes, posters, time commitments, and everything else that went into it - then joining a gym, using a workout video, or even beginning to take quick walks around town or her street or skipping one snack every day shouldn't be so hard for her.

I don't think she needs a sexual partner. She needs encouragement and structure, and while the first can be given by a number of people she needs to create the framework for the second and stick with it. That's my contribution.

*sinks back into the void*


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## waldo (Mar 14, 2007)

imfree said:


> No, no, what I mean is "to encourage a woman to maintain an unhealthy
> level of obesity against her will, is abuse". My will is such that I like weighing
> 400lbs and there are women who like being likewise large. I am refering mostly
> to any attempt to control a person's weight against that person's free will. I
> ...



Thanks for clarifying. However, there can still be a gray area between someone making their own decisions and being influenced by some form of persuation which would not be outright 'force' but could be considered control to some extent. Another issue is a guy playing on his wife's weakness for certain foods, like the one guy on the Dr. Phil show a while back. He didn't force his wife to eat but he sure did facilitate it at every opportunity.

As far as the effects of a steady high weight versus weight-cycling, I believe there is limited statistical evidence to support the idea that staying fat is better than yo-yoing especially since yo-yoing seems to lead to higher and higher weights in the long term.


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## squurp (Mar 15, 2007)

krystalltuerme said:


> And then you say,
> 
> I think it's quite likely that a person's self-image may be significantly influenced by their under-five childhood experiences, but I also think that a person's self-image and self-esteem can be significantly impacted after that age (for better or for worse). Take, for instance, the propaganda that the diet industry bombards our society with. Personally, I think (and I think many would agree) that the myth that fat is ugly (as perpetuated by almost every source of mainstream media) is responsible for most cases of anorexia. I would argue that most exposure to this type of media takes place after the age of five, simply because the comprehension skills are far more developed after the age of five.
> 
> ...




First, I made no accusations about this woman's self esteem. I merely hypothesized about what might be the case "IF" she had low self esteem. 

In my previous post, I did mention that self esteem can change after age five. It is not immovable. However, it is very difficult to move. You talk about your girlfriend's self esteem changing, but how much have you really sorted out? I mean, was she maligned for her weight before age 5? If not, perhaps she had a good foundation of self esteem that needed to jsut be rediscovered. Again, not making any accusations here, just suggesting possibilities.

Self image does not equal self esteem. They are two related but separate psychological categories.

And, your last paragraph hits at exactly the point you try to refute. External variables do not have substantial effect on self esteem. So, enough said, I guess.

I am in the midst of more pressing research right now, and don't have time to present some research on this, but maybe in the future I'll dig some up.


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## FreonTrip (Mar 15, 2007)

Ah, well, video's gone now. Who's up for salmon and crackers at my place?


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