# F/FA's Who Are Fat Themselves



## squeezablysoft (May 17, 2016)

*Are F/FA's who are overweight themselves perceived differently (either by the fat ppl they admire or by society in general) than slim F/FA's? I think there's this idea that fat ppl kinda go together as couples so it would seem less weird, plus I would imagine a non-F/FA fat person might feel less of a "creep-factor" coming from a fellow fatty who likes ppl like themselves vs a skinny person who likes fat ppl. But there is also prolly the idea that a fat person decides to "settle" with another fat person because they "can't do any better", which makes them simultaneously seem less creepy and less genuine in their desire compared to a thin person who could take their pick of partners but really prefers a larger lover.*


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## bigmac (May 17, 2016)

Its been my experience that the majority of BBWs would much rather hookup with a thin guy.


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## Big.Papa (May 17, 2016)

I think sometimes there is a fear of breaking him, that is somehow better if he's not too small. But I wouldn't be surprised if the preferences obese people have in a partner mirror the preferences that society has as a whole. Especially since obese people are a majority of people in the US.


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## bigmac (May 18, 2016)

I think there is actually quite a difference between the way a lot of BBWs see themselves and the way most big guys see themselves. Over the past couple of decades the amount of support for BBWs has greatly increased (this is obviously a good thing). Most BBWs today see themselves as sexually desirable and have quite a bit of self-confidence (again a good thing). 

Unfortunately the situation for big guys has gotten worse. Women have increasingly high and increasingly specific physical standards for guys. While (outside of Hollywood) the range for what is acceptable is increasing for women it's decreasing for men.


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## landshark (May 19, 2016)

Generally I think preference is independent of one's own body type. I'm sure there are people out there who prefer BBW/BHM because they themselves fit that description same as there are fit people who will only date for people. This is by no means universal. In my years as an FA I've learned that a lot of BBWs prefer thin/lean/athletic guys like myself. and of course as a fit guy who prefers fat women I am nowhere close to being unique: plenty of fit people (men and women alike) prefer bigger partners.

To Bigmac's point, I think how you view that is a matter of perspective. My wife would shake her head and give an emphatic "not true" to those points. It is true that women value appearance (and I don't think anyone would ever try to deny that) a man's "worth" is not as closely tied to his appearance as is a woman's. In today's society, being a fat woman may just be the single most egregious and wide spread social faux pax one can commit. You don't see women driving around with "no fat guys" bumper stickers. Some of the world's strongest power lifters look like fat guys but they get the benefit of the doubt because they can DL 1000+ pounds raw. Or think about guys built like offensive linemen on a football team. No such benefit of the doubt exists for a fat woman. On a societal level she has less "value" because her appearance is is less pereferred.

Just an opinion, of course. People's opinions will vary based on experiences.


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## bigmac (May 19, 2016)

HM nicely states the old paradigm. However, I believe there has been a paradigm shift. IMHO it is now women who value looks more. At the higher end of the socioeconomic spectrum women are now financially much more independent and grow up being told they can have everything. Everything of course includes a hot guy. At the low end the number of guys who can actually support a family (or even make a meaningful contribution) continues to decrease. Women in this sphere of society can reason that if a guys not going to be useful he damn well better be decorative.


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## Tad (May 19, 2016)

I was always a hungry kid &#8211; probably why I was over thirty pounds at my one year old check-up. My parents did a pretty good job of getting me to eat fairly reasonably, with a mix of how much they gave me and constant coaching on what we’d now call EQ &#8211; delaying snacks, having just a small snack, etc. I’ve sometimes summarized the main message I got growing up as “You can have as many cookies as you want; but you should only want one.” (and wanting approval, I’d just have one, even though I so desperately wanted more)

Sometimes I wonder if my path to FA-ness was simply seeking someone who would only go with the first part of that sentence “You can have as many cookies as you want.” By this line of reasoning, I thought that the only people who would value being fat and indulging a large appetite were others who were fat and indulged a large appetite, so clearly I should look for another fat person. Supporting evidence for this line of reasoning was that my first pseudo-sexual fantasies were about myself, the chubby neighbor boy, and the two heaviest girls in my grade six class having a sort of weight gain club, and I’d map out how over the years we’d learn to gain faster and faster, and when we finished high-school the fattest boy would get to date the fattest girl (my romantic/sexual imagination was not well developed back then … and may have been mostly inspired by Archie comics).

I’m not at all sure that this is why I like what I like, but it would make a nice convenient explanation. (I’m usually suspicious of simple explanations for any human behavior/preferences, which is why I’m not convinced).


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## loopytheone (May 19, 2016)

I'm a BBW and an FFA. As somebody who is asexual, I don't have a lot of physical desires but I've always been attracted to fat people in general, even as a kid. It is hard for me to be physically attracted to weight/fatness but not to the person as a whole without feeling like an objectifying creep, but as I've gotten older I've finally learnt to reconcile these two things in my head. It is okay to watch videos and look at pictures of people that they put into the public domain to be admired and fantasised over by strangers. You have their consent to admire their bodies. And as for being in relationships, the fact that I'm not sexually attracted to them as a whole is okay too; it doesn't make my love for them and their charm and their heart and their beauty any less valid and real. This realisation, combined with looking back at pictures of myself, made me realise something else.

I have always been fixated on fat, even as a little kid, and that is okay. That is why, growing up, I always saw myself as fat and huge even though, looking at photos etc... I was a very scrawny child and teenager. I was just super focused on what little softness I did have, ever since I was a kid. And now I understand that I can come to accept that I like being bigger, that I like being soft and full and round. I don't have to beat myself up about it or hate myself for liking it anymore. I am fat, and I like fat, I like my partners to be fat and I love people, fat or thin, for being who they are on the inside, nothing else. Cliche though that might be. And once I love you, as a person... it doesn't matter what you look like, you will be gorgeous to me. And I damn well expect that if you are my partner, you find my fat-ass self every bit as gorgeous as well. :kiss2:


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## squeezablysoft (May 19, 2016)

Tad said:


> I was always a hungry kid  probably why I was over thirty pounds at my one year old check-up. My parents did a pretty good job of getting me to eat fairly reasonably, with a mix of how much they gave me and constant coaching on what wed now call EQ  delaying snacks, having just a small snack, etc. Ive sometimes summarized the main message I got growing up as You can have as many cookies as you want; but you should only want one. (and wanting approval, Id just have one, even though I so desperately wanted more)
> 
> Sometimes I wonder if my path to FA-ness was simply seeking someone who would only go with the first part of that sentence You can have as many cookies as you want. By this line of reasoning, I thought that the only people who would value being fat and indulging a large appetite were others who were fat and indulged a large appetite, so clearly I should look for another fat person. Supporting evidence for this line of reasoning was that my first pseudo-sexual fantasies were about myself, the chubby neighbor boy, and the two heaviest girls in my grade six class having a sort of weight gain club, and Id map out how over the years wed learn to gain faster and faster, and when we finished high-school the fattest boy would get to date the fattest girl (my romantic/sexual imagination was not well developed back then  and may have been mostly inspired by Archie comics).
> 
> Im not at all sure that this is why I like what I like, but it would make a nice convenient explanation. (Im usually suspicious of simple explanations for any human behavior/preferences, which is why Im not convinced).



*Yep, this. It's interesting to hear a man's perspective on growing up as a chubby child with a strong appetite, I always felt a lot of the stuff I went through with that was gender-related, you know, "good girls don't...". When I was really little I bugged my parents for food all the time (when I was still a baby, about 1.5, I somehow managed to get into the refrigerator, Mom says she found me stuffing wee baby handfuls of cherry tomatoes into my mouth and giggling hysterically), but once I got to be 5-ish and started realizing what was expected of me, I couldn't bring myself to utter the words "I'm hungry" even though I was more often than not. Didn't want to bother Mommy with having to stop what she was doing to feed me all the time, didn't want ppl to think I was a fat, greedy, little hungry piggy. 

Still whenever I got the chance away from my parents I'd stuff myself, parties and the vending machines at school (thank God I finished secondary school pre-Obamas) were like manna from heaven. We had these knock-off Oreo things, that came in round tubes about the size of one sleeve in a standard Oreo package, abut 8" long, I would eat a couple of those plus a little bag of Doritos plus 3-4 candies plus my lunch (in the good old days when pizza and french fries were plentiful and ketchup counted as a veggie :eat2: ). When my parents were away I'd raid the kitchen and scarf up cheese by the block and peanut butter by the spoonful. Nothing makes you question the meaning of life and your own existence quite like sucking pancake syrup and salad dressing straight from their respective bottles all whilst keeping your ears cocked for the imminent arrival of the familial food police, or panicking when you come home from school and realize your mom cleaned your room while you were gone, because she might have found your sweets stash. I'm surprised I hardly ever got caught, idk if I was just that good at being sneaky or if my parents knew but didn't say anything or what. 

Since I've come to live with my godparents it's gotten worse, they are health-food junkies, but weirdly I find they've started loosening up with me food-wise in the past few days, there was an incident where I felt sick from getting too hungry (bizarre I know but it happens to me) that they witnessed which may be part of it (I still can't bring myself to ask for food outside of mealtimes but I know I really should have on this day). I know when I start college I'm gonna go nuts at first with my new-found food freedom, I'm really looking forward to it but also the idea of completely losing control scares me just a little. Just a few days ago I was watching a YouTube documentary about "half-ton man" Patrick Deuel and I was just floored when one of the obesity doctors said most ppl can go 6-8 hours between meals (http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2175796&postcount=44), cause I am usually either still hungry after eating or hungry again within an hour or two after a "normal size meal". Even when I was very young restricting what/how much I ate felt like holding my breath and being able to eat without restrictions felt like finally coming up for air. That is how I've felt my whole life, like I'm holding my breath 24/7 for other's approval, bt when I'm alone I can finally breathe (binge) which comes with great relief and pleasure, but also some guilt and shame and fear of being discovered, of everyone knowing I'm not the good little girl who is never hungry after all, that I am just a big, fat, greedy pig. Is this just me, anybody else (Tad?) feel this way? Wow, I feel like I've just had a therapy session or something, hope my insurance covers this, lol.*


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## squeezablysoft (May 19, 2016)

loopytheone said:


> I'm a BBW and an FFA.



*I can't seem to get the BBW label to stick when I try to apply it to myself. I don't feel fat enough. Wonder if the label will get stickier 14 pounds from now when I'm officially obese?*


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## landshark (May 20, 2016)

bigmac said:


> HM nicely states the old paradigm. However, I believe there has been a paradigm shift. IMHO it is now women who value looks more. At the higher end of the socioeconomic spectrum women are now financially much more independent and grow up being told they can have everything. Everything of course includes a hot guy. At the low end the number of guys who can actually support a family (or even make a meaningful contribution) continues to decrease. Women in this sphere of society can reason that if a guys not going to be useful he damn well better be decorative.



You make some solid points and it's tough to argue against them. If that is indeed the direction things are heading I still think it'll take a long time to "re-norm." Women have always been valued for their appearance far more than men have, and it'll take more than just contemporary economic trends to shift that toward center or outright reverse it. Still, it's a well-stated support of your position. You don't see that every day on internet forums!


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## fuelingfire (May 21, 2016)

I have had nonFAs tell me they noticed "guys who are into fat chicks are usually either fat themselves, which 'makes sense because they have given up' or they are really thin" followed by some derogatory remark. They didn't realize I was an FA, a long time ago. I have always wonder how many where actually FA/FFAs. When I was a kid I use to wish that I realized that fat couple where part of some sort of secret society and none of them were settling. They just knew what they liked and ignored social norms.

I would expect more of a stigma against thin FAs (I am biased though being a thinner weightlifting FA). So many people have said in front of me that I don't care about looks... I am not shallow but in my eyes I only date beautiful women. I have tried to respond to this in many ways but really haven't found the best way to do so. I have always wanted to just shou out, "you are fing blind!"

I am sure BHMs who are FAs also receive Stigma too.


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## landshark (May 21, 2016)

fuelingfire said:


> I have had nonFAs tell me they noticed "guys who are into fat chicks are usually either fat themselves, which 'makes sense because they have given up' or they are really thin" followed by some derogatory remark. They didn't realize I was an FA, a long time ago. I have always wonder how many where actually FA/FFAs. When I was a kid I use to wish that I realized that fat couple where part of some sort of secret society and none of them were settling. They just knew what they liked and ignored social norms.
> 
> I would expect more of a stigma against thin FAs (I am biased though being a thinner weightlifting FA). So many people have said in front of me that I don't care about looks... I am not shallow but in my eyes I only date beautiful women. I have tried to respond to this in many ways but really haven't found the best way to do so. I have always wanted to just shou out, "you are fing blind!"
> 
> I am sure BHMs who are FAs also receive Stigma too.



As a pretty fit/athletic FA myself I can relate and completely agree with this post. 

First, I've heard it many times: "Guys who like fat chicks are themselves fat, sickly thin/weak, unemployed or underemployed, uneducated, lack self confidence and otherwise entirely undesirable." Obviously I don't agree with this and defy just about every one of those descriptions but I've learned once people make up their minds about something no amount of real evidence otherwise will make them change their minds.

I've also encountered the argument that guys like you and I make things harder for guys who don't want to date fat girls. :roll eyes: Really. While it would seem to me I've made it easier for them by removing myself from the pool of men who want to date "hot" girls and keeping myself exclusively for overweight women, I am no longer competing with them for the women they want. However that logic doesn't translate in their minds. Their reasoning is that by dating an "unworthy fat woman" I am sending a message to other women that it is okay to be fat and they will let themselves go. Forget that women are independent thinkers and may not want to gain weight purely out of a desire to be in a certain kind of physical shape. Apparently their "logic" makes more sense to them than my own. 

I can also relate to the "shallow" arguments. I don't deserve a pat on the back for not being shallow because I date fat women. (Or dated. I'm married now.) I date the women I find attractive, just like anyone. Now as it happens, I don't think I am shallow because I do value more than just appearance. But preferring fat women doesn't make me not shallow. It makes me a guy who values the way a fat woman looks the same way some other guy may value the way a cheerleader's body looks. 

I've encountered a lot of different reactions over the years, and honestly not all of it is negative. In fact, recently I had a co-worker who is for all intents and purposes mainstream "hot" respond extremely favorably when she learned I like bigger girls. I've been meaning to share that story on another thread. But it is incredible to me how badly being an FA can ruin someone else's day. There is definitely a stigma associated with it, but honestly I've come to embrace it. Despite all the body positive movements out there, BBWs are still soundly mocked in our society, and if being married to one means sharing in that humiliation, then so be it. It is a small price to pay for being with the person I want to be with.


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## bigmac (May 21, 2016)

I've been fat most of my life (i.e. only kid im my 1st grade class who weighed more than 100 pounds). However, on three occassions I have managed to loose enough weight to qualify as "normal" on weight charts. Each time I was able to maintain for a few years but eventually the weight found its way back. This morning I weight 298 pounds (I'm 6'4").

*Some personal observations:*

The one time I weighted over 320 pounds I started to encounter looks of disgust from women during the course of everyday activities (very disconcerting).

When I weight between about 270 and 310 pound I'm pretty much invisible. When dealing with people in ordinary situations the interactions are pretty much perfunctory.

When I weighed less than 270 pounds it wasn't at all uncommon for women to initiate conversations or to respond in very positive ways if I initiated.

What I glean from my experiences over many decades in many locations is that there are very very few women willing to engage with let alone date a fat guy. This is quantitatively different than the situation fat women live. While fat women certainly face challenges they at least have a significant constituency of admirers. Bottom line is that there are far more guys attracted to fat women than there a women attracted to fat guys.


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## squeezablysoft (May 21, 2016)

bigmac said:


> I've been fat most of my life (i.e. only kid im my 1st grade class who weighed more than 100 pounds). However, on three occassions I have managed to loose enough weight to qualify as "normal" on weight charts. Each time I was able to maintain for a few years but eventually the weight found its way back. This morning I weight 298 pounds (I'm 6'4").
> 
> *Some personal observations:*
> 
> ...



*Is that why fat guys are always nice to me, cause I'm the only woman who treats them like humans? That's sad. *


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## landshark (May 21, 2016)

Bigmac, I certainly don't want to suggest your experiences are not valid. I've just observed plenty in the opposite direction: Including many fit women who prefer big men. 

So the idea here is not to be argumentative but to point out that it does not work universally in one direction. I know plenty more BBWs who are single than I do men. I've witnessed plenty of BBWs being openly made fun of in public but never have witnessed the same toward BHM. Granted, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen just that from my observation it is not as wide spread.

Lastly I don't see the stigma that I and fueling fire have mentioned applied toward fit women who date BHM. In fact, in many cases some of the BHM my wife and I know seem to be very popular among women. 

Our experiences will always shape how we see something. However I think it is vital to recognize our experiences are not universally right. Seems that for every experience there is an equal and opposite experience out there somewhere.


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## fuelingfire (May 21, 2016)

I completely agree with happily married. I didn't want to speak for BHMs because I really can only guess what you go through. I through in my last sentence hoping to relay that. I also left out stuff about the thin guys being basically stereotypical rednecks. I get told so often I don't look like a guy who is into "fat chick" by BBWs. I realize it's meant as a compliment but doesn't feel like one.

I love it when there is a new interesting thread in the FA/FFA forum!


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## squeezablysoft (May 21, 2016)

*There is also a difference between how fat ppl get treated online where more F/FA's are "out" vs how they get treated in day-to-day meatspace. I think maybe the idea of BBWs having all these admirers throwing themselves at them is mostly an internet phenomenon, next time you are at the mall count how many slim couples vs BBW/BHM couples vs BBW/slim guy couples vs BHM/slim lady couples you see. It's also worth noting that women tend to gain weight with childbearing, so just because you see a BBW with a man, doesn't mean he initially hooked up with a fat girl.*


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## landshark (May 21, 2016)

squeezablysoft said:


> *There is also a difference between how fat ppl get treated online where more F/FA's are "out" vs how they get treated in day-to-day meatspace. I think maybe the idea of BBWs having all these admirers throwing themselves at them is mostly an internet phenomenon...*



I definitely agree to a great extent. It's a lot easier to get online and behind the protection of anonymity "come out" as a chubby chaser. It's another thing entirely to follow through in the public arena. I know when I first starting dating fat women I was very nervous about who would see me. Even in places I felt reasonably certain I'd not bump into anyone I knew, I was nervous about what others would think. It wasn't like one day I decided, "I know what kind of women I REALLY like so that's what I'm actually going to pursue and public perception be damned!" Not even close. It was a process and little by little I reached a point where I was comfortable being seen in public with my fat partners. 



squeezablysoft said:


> *
> ...next time you are at the mall count how many slim couples vs BBW/BHM couples vs BBW/slim guy couples vs BHM/slim lady couples you see. It's also worth noting that women tend to gain weight with childbearing, so just because you see a BBW with a man, doesn't mean he initially hooked up with a fat girl.*



I honestly see it all. I am a people watcher and notice things about others, couples included. You literally see it all if you are looking. It's a good observation about women and weight gain after childbirth though. I know a lot of guys struggle with this. There is a group of BBWs who work in the building I work in, and I get along well with a couple of them well enough to have had some personal conversations. At one point I shared with one my preferences and she told her friends. About a week later one of them approached me and poured out her heart about how luck my wife was and how badly she wished her husband wouldn't constantly hint his displeasure with her weight. Especially (she said) since she wasn't really skinny to begin with.


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## fuelingfire (May 22, 2016)

squeezablysoft said:


> *There is also a difference between how fat ppl get treated online where more F/FA's are "out" vs how they get treated in day-to-day meatspace. I think maybe the idea of BBWs having all these admirers throwing themselves at them is mostly an internet phenomenon, next time you are at the mall count how many slim couples vs BBW/BHM couples vs BBW/slim guy couples vs BHM/slim lady couples you see. It's also worth noting that women tend to gain weight with childbearing, so just because you see a BBW with a man, doesn't mean he initially hooked up with a fat girl.*




I think there just aren't as many FAs/FFAs as I would like there to be, rather than how out FAs are. At Dims I am sure it sounds like we are obsessed with chasing fat people. But go to a mainstream website and almost all comments about fat people will be condemning them or sound like jokes. It is now much more common to see couple with a fat person than ever. Though probably because the population is becoming overweight. Most BBWs I have talked to in real life either have never met a FA or only met a few that they know of. 

Kind of a funny observation, since I have started dating since my divorce, when I post pictures of the girl I am dating on social media, it's mostly BBWs who have been liking the pictures, of the people on my friends list. Some of them know I am a FA from outright asking me, others I think guess. I, in general, don't flirt with other women while in a relationship, but went I am present with a group of people I do go out of my way to be chatty with BBWs. That or they notice my ex-wife and girlfriend BBWs and the people I know guess or assume I am a FA.


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## fuelingfire (May 22, 2016)

happily_married said:


> I definitely agree to a great extent. It's a lot easier to get online and behind the protection of anonymity "come out" as a chubby chaser. It's another thing entirely to follow through in the public arena. I know when I first starting dating fat women I was very nervous about who would see me. Even in places I felt reasonably certain I'd not bump into anyone I knew, I was nervous about what others would think. It wasn't like one day I decided, "I know what kind of women I REALLY like so that's what I'm actually going to pursue and public perception be damned!" Not even close. It was a process and little by little I reached a point where I was comfortable being seen in public with my fat partners.
> 
> 
> 
> I honestly see it all. I am a people watcher and notice things about others, couples included. You literally see it all if you are looking. It's a good observation about women and weight gain after childbirth though. I know a lot of guys struggle with this. There is a group of BBWs who work in the building I work in, and I get along well with a couple of them well enough to have had some personal conversations. At one point I shared with one my preferences and she told her friends. About a week later one of them approached me and poured out her heart about how luck my wife was and how badly she wished her husband wouldn't constantly hint his displeasure with her weight. Especially (she said) since she wasn't really skinny to begin with.



I like to think the posts on Dims are honest. Including about being out. I definitely agree. In high school, I buried my FAs feelings. I dated athletic girls because I was supposed to. I was constantly wishing I was dating BBWs. I was bullied as a kid, so I hated standing out in high school. But once I graduated, I wasn't around people I disliked anymore. I went to college and played guitar/sang in band, dressed like a rocker. I felt I stood out like a sore thumb anyways. As I was focusing on what I wanted, which included dating beautiful women(BBWs). So when I came out, it was only with my newer friends who where not as judgemental as people from my smaller home town. For me it was a boiling point where I felt I needed to get out. I can't pinpoint an exact day. I have a few times gotten on looks from people, but is rather rare especially as I have gotten older.

In high school I would try to predict which girls would eventually become BBWs. I was often correct. Now I wonder who would gain weight after childbirth birth. Not that weight gain is my thing but I noticed a lot more women with kids are BBWs, and I want kids. the dating pool seems a little larger if I include the plus-size women into the BBW category.

I always feel that people should not expect change from a person on a relationship. Doesn't matter if it's looks, weight or personality. You are with the wrong person and it's unfair to pressure someone to change.


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## bigmac (May 22, 2016)

I think there are big geographic differences in how fat people are treated. Out here on the west coast people tend to keep their anti-fat biases to themselves in public situations. Fat people become invisible as opposed to openly bullied.

From my experiences living on the east coast and from talking to people from the midwest it seems to me that in the east (south of New England) and in the midwest haters are much more open about their biases.


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## choudhury (May 24, 2016)

I think bigmac is onto something with the specific point that 'beauty standards' in general are significantly higher for men than they used to be. You only need to consider the contrast between what were considered hunky men on television and movies in the 1960s, compared to today. All that was needed back then, for Sean Connory or William Shatner or whoever, was to be reasonably fit. Nowadays the standard is Daniel Craig - a ridiculous level of sculpted muscularity that requires considerable effort and training. This rebounds against all men. But of course it would affect fat men more, because they're now further from the 'ideal' than they ever were before, historically.

But I really don't think that things have gotten much better for BBWs. Women in general remain massively more objectified than men, and 'thin-to-emaciated' remains very much the dominant norm. True, the internet provides some relief, but I doubt it's that much help in day-to-day life for most BBWs. (Of course, this is just a guess on my part, since I'm not a BBW.)

As for the topic of 'fat couples,' I'll admit that I do NOT generally assume that fat couples are both FAs. My assumption, rather, is that the partners were drawn together by mutual fat _acceptance _rather than fat _admiration_. 'Here is someone who shared my love of food, can relate to the challenges I face as a fat person, and who will not judge me because I'm fat.' 

How about a couple where only one partner is fat? If they're young, then I generally assume that the thin one is an FA. (This is always sort of fascinating to me, for some reason). If they're long married, etc., then I don't necessarily assume that - especially if they first came together when both were thin - although you never know.


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## voluptuouslover (May 24, 2016)

I think over the last couple of years it seems that the trend is that women carrying more weight is definitely more acceptable than say 10-15 years ago. With that said there is also a certain point that a lot of us Fa's who love weight gain are kind of in denial.....when I see a pretty women she can be 200 Lbs., and much more like 300, 350 Lbs. and I consider them Beautiful because of their extra weight....where as others would think 200 Lbs. is pretty fat and they would only be accepting of them...even today as I feel the swing with people being more accepting of more weight on women they would still probably frown on a woman weighing over 250 lbs. and definitely 300 or 350 Lbs.. My blinders are up because I think Fat is beautiful and in most cases so much sexier with the roundness, softness and flowing curves then sharp bone structure and hip bones etc. A women that has such beauty and carries her Fat so beautifully is like a 12 on a scale of 10.

As far as men go....I am not to sure all I can say is I think age has a lot to do with the maturation of things. I know it seemed that my wife always liked me fit and cut up but many years later when I gained a bunch of weight and had fun Intentionally gaining ...I developed a pretty big Gut and she seemed completely turned on by her fatter husband....especially in the sack. No I know this was not during the dating stage which may have a much different result....but she sure didn't seem ashamed of her newly Fattened up husband ....in fact she constantly was feeding me fattening dinners and much bigger portions. I guess she was happy to be the good wife who fattened up her husband. Also, I kind of thought that while I was so much bigger that other women would not be interested but maybe it was me....but during this time so many women would strike up conversation with me as opposed to before. I think there are a good amount of women in a particular age range that actually prefer men who are bigger and that even have a pronounced belly on them......obviously hygiene, grooming and confidence have a lot to do with it.

my 2 cents with my extra 40+ Lbs.


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## FatBarbieDoll (May 25, 2016)

happily_married said:


> Generally I think preference is independent of one's own body type. I'm sure there are people out there who prefer BBW/BHM because they themselves fit that description same as there are fit people who will only date for people. This is by no means universal. In my years as an FA I've learned that a lot of BBWs prefer thin/lean/athletic guys like myself. and of course as a fit guy who prefers fat women I am nowhere close to being unique: plenty of fit people (men and women alike) prefer bigger partners.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Are fit men just a lot more hesitant to admit their attraction to fat women and actually openly date them? I don't believe there are that many fit dudes who are attracted to big ladies and date them in public but maybe that's because of what I mentioned above.

Thin guys, though? It may be easier with them. Still, I wonder
I have a conventionally attractive, super fit step-brother, and my god can he rarely go even one conversation without the talk veering towards what he is doing exercise-wise, foods he is eating, what you "shouldn't" eat, etc.

I highly doubt he's a secret lover of fatties but it's sure an interesting concept.


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## squeezablysoft (May 25, 2016)

FatBarbieDoll said:


> Are fit men just a lot more hesitant to admit their attraction to fat women and actually openly date them? I don't believe there are that many fit dudes who are attracted to big ladies and date them in public but maybe that's because of what I mentioned above.
> 
> Thin guys, though? It may be easier with them. Still, I wonder
> I have a conventionally attractive, super fit step-brother, and my god can he rarely go even one conversation without the talk veering towards what he is doing exercise-wise, foods he is eating, what you "shouldn't" eat, etc.
> ...



*Maybe he's trying to overcompensate to conceal his secret fatty love? Something slightly different, but I got into a discussion on another site re: foodies, which went a lil something like this (my name there is Fluffy):
John Ferdinand Death by metal! 
I actually see a lot of thin white girls on instagram have the "foodie" moniker.
In fact, very rarely do I see an overweight girl put a picture of herself with a 1/2 pounder burger. Coz yeah, she's asking for the comments to roll in.
Fat guys sometimes take photos with food for the irony. Though I doubt they like the comments such as "lol big Dave!" or whatever their name is

Death by metal! John Ferdinand 
Yeah it's very strange how White girls think food bragging somehow impresses any other homo sapien, along with their comical exercise bragging and travel bragging. Just makes them all the more boring, ordinary and redundant.

CR199 Death by metal! 
I think its kind of the Yoga + Lululemon + Kale smoothies 'foodie' type we're seeing there

Fluffy CR199 
I'm not thin (BMI 27.4), but I am a white girl and I'm pretty sure those girls brag about yoga and kale because deep down inside they'd rather spend the day laying in bed with Netflix and a stuffed-crust pizza. You are expected to appreciate the self-discipline they are exerting to keep their inner pig in check.

MCGOO Fluffy 
''Inner pig''. I like that. That's the perfect word I was looking for. I had a story about the 'inner pig' on the tip of my tongue but I didn't have that one missing word, 'inner pig'. I'll borrow your word. Thank you.

Fluffy MCGOO 
You're welcome.

MCGOO (Note from SqueezablySoft: this part gets kinda offensive in places)
Every person has an 'inner pig' I believe but some are better than others at keeping it in check. I went on a trail hiking excursion once that had a really fat chick in the group. Someone lost the food bag somehow but didn't mention it. When we were out past the point of turn around, the chubby girl got hungry and went on and on about how starving she was. When someone told her the food bag got lost, she panicked and went through many shades of psychosis and apathy. She had only missed one meal so far and she claimed she'd be violently sick if she didn't eat. She cried like a hyena at times. She was still blowing farts from the 20 pc chicken nuggets she downed earlier that morning and she claimed that her body was in crisis from starvation.

Dr Mcgoo thought this might be a good time to probe for the underlying cause of her compulsion. Low sugar perhaps, he thought, but her compulsion was acute. The psychosis subsided when her quick carbs and sugar were exhausted. She even stopped the group as she lay on her back and screamed for help from an airplane above. It was a fedex plane but not an Airbus so no chance of it crashing soon and spilling out the holliday season orders of fruit cakes and pepperidge farms gift bundles. No amount of empathy or undstanding would have helped her.

It was a churchy kind of group but one bleeding heart guy broke out with a big boy can (24oz) of coors light he had concealed and was about to begin secretly sipping on with a long straw. She wasn't a drinker but she inhaled her first beer in two seconds. The empty carbs carried her for another quarter mile as she talked nonstop and told the stupidest girly jokes. Then she imploded and cried in a puddle. Her stomach or something was killing her she claimed.

Dr Mcgoo thought ''electrolytes perhaps?''. This whole ordeal was such a fascinating looking glass into the inner labyrinth of the obese femicunt. We all packed salt packs so perhaps it was her salt. We did have water so the good doctor advised her to not overdo the salt, take some swigs of water and ''moooove that carcass onward'' The destination was right around the bend.

She made it within eyesight of the end point and then sat in a ball and froze, staring at the others as they gathered at the finish. A half mile away she sat staring and she was too heavy to carry. A pothead and somewhat musician in the group stayed with her and talked about who knows what. He had some reef and thought it might motivate her to walk herself the last little bit. Big mistake. She became hungrier than a motherfucker and whatever psychosis she displayed before now became full blown. She was literally screaming into the air and pulling her hair out. The guy figured she was a bad trip to be around at that point so he finally left her alone and headed to the group gathering at the end.

We could all see but not hear her. It looked like she was doing some kind of cool indian dance off in the distance so we waved back. She then stood up, turned and walked the other way! Into the dark she went that evening. We didn't see her for two days until she came walking up out of the trail. Mcgoo presumed she'd subsisted on nothing foodwise and had utilized the water stored in her camel humps and spare tire. We should have left her there though. She was somehow detoxing in her own way but she was a few battles shy of fully conquering her 'inner pig'. When we got back to civilization, she went on a week long eating binge at buffets and she likely put on 20 lbs.

Totally true story. . eeh . . mostly totally

Fluffy 

I am all too familiar with this scenario. I would likely have gone through all of those stages of hunger insanity in my head, but would have kept it to myself apart from at most two brief whines and one passive-aggressive "joke" about my future plans for the loser of the food.

And I actually do get sick from hunger at times (I can scarcely put into words what a strange experience is arriving at the dinner table feeling like reheated death, taking a couple bites, excusing oneself to go puke up said bites, then returning to finish dinner with perfect contentment). Luckily I don't get sick everytime I get hungry, because I get hungry about every two hours, like tonight I had dinner at 6, its 10 now and my stomach feels like a black hole.

My inner pig could win a blue ribbon in a livestock competition, but I think for the most part it is still an inner pig and not an outer one.

Btw, interesting coincidence, my Sunday school class is going hiking this Saturday and we're going to Chik-Fil-A after for lunch. I may or may not eat 20 nuggets. Aaaand now my inner pig is going to keep me awake all night thinking about stupid Chik-Fil-A. Being an always-hungry person can really make you nuts (dammit now I'm thinking about nuts! And peanut butter! And Reese's cups! It just never stops).*


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## Tad (May 25, 2016)

What drives a guy to hit the gym every day and achieve really high levels of fitness? For some it may be purely personal satisfaction. But for many it will be in some part either the general approval it gets (which can also turn into concrete advantages in life), or for impressing women.

If someone is really set on external approval, they are likely going to also want to aim for the highest status mate they can find. Granted that some people will want that approval in some areas, but not care in other areas.

If someone is working that hard to impress women, presumably he is seeking women who are in high demand, where he figures he needs to stand out as something exceptional to impress them. Sadly, in our society, that mostly means women who fit a certain physical image.

Throw in opportunity (if you spend a lot of time at the gym or doing sports, you are apt to meet women who do the same), and common interests, and it also makes it easier, in many cases, for them to meet women with similar priorities.

I'm positive that there are guys who work out a lot and are in awesome shape, who are into fat women, and that there are such guys who openly date, marry, etc fat women. I just suspect that it would be below the average rate of society as a whole.


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## landshark (May 25, 2016)

FatBarbieDoll said:


> Are fit men just a lot more hesitant to admit their attraction to fat women and actually openly date them? I don't believe there are that many fit dudes who are attracted to big ladies and date them in public but maybe that's because of what I mentioned above.
> 
> Thin guys, though? It may be easier with them. Still, I wonder
> I have a conventionally attractive, super fit step-brother, and my god can he rarely go even one conversation without the talk veering towards what he is doing exercise-wise, foods he is eating, what you "shouldn't" eat, etc.
> ...





I can only offer anecdotal evidence to support that there are fit guys who openly prefer fat women. Fit guys don't think in unison, and I can only speak for myself. On this thread are two self described fit men (me and fueling fire) who are open about our preferences. I know a lot of fit guys abhor fat women though. On a fitness forum I frequent I've actually been called out (by fit men and women alike) for having the preference I have. What's interesting is some of these guys are former fatties themselves and take a very nasty hardlined approach to people who are overweight. 

And you and I have discussed this on other threads, but there is a lot of merit to the idea that a lot of fit men are hesitant to date fat women out of image conscious fears. That was me until my mid-20s. And even as I started dating fat women it took some effort to get over the fear of being seen by someone I knew, or what my friends would think, etc. there is definitely a stigma to being a fit male who dates (or worse: is married to) a fat woman. Just last week a co-worker of mine who is 10-15 or so years older than me and quite the BBW discussed this with me. I don't recall how the conversation started but it evolved into a discussion on preference. I shared with her what my preferences were and alluded to my wife's shape and size and she was surprised as hell. She said she would have never guessed and because I was the type of guy (basic body type) she prefers it gives her hope to stumble into a relationship some day. But hope aside, it came as a surprise to her a fit male wants to be with a fat woman. 

Regarding your fit step brother, some people treat fitness like a religion. I am happy to say I don't fit that description; it's super annoying when people are like that. He probably gives unsolicited gym advice, interrupting someone else's workout. At any rate, not everyone who is fit is like that. It's clearly important to him and maybe he'll figure out a way to tone it down a little.


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## landshark (May 25, 2016)

Tad said:


> What drives a guy to hit the gym every day and achieve really high levels of fitness? For some it may be purely personal satisfaction. But for many it will be in some part either the general approval it gets (which can also turn into concrete advantages in life), or for impressing women.
> 
> If someone is really set on external approval, they are likely going to also want to aim for the highest status mate they can find. Granted that some people will want that approval in some areas, but not care in other areas.
> 
> ...





Tad, most of your posts are pure gold and this one is no different. Well said and some solid observations. As a fit male I want to go point for point on this.

I have a lot of reasons why I work out. I used to be a runner (medium distance) and I was damn fast. I ran because I liked doing it. I'm from Colorado and used to go trail run in the mountains and some days I'd find a new trail and want to see where it went and explore and so on and next thing I know I've covered over 15 miles at 8000+ feet altitude and would be at it again the next day. More recently I've had to transition from the trails to the weight room (two knee surgeries and three severe ankle sprains all within a 20 month window and all on the same leg) and I just can't take the wear and tear of trail running anymore. And if I can't be outside and fast like I used to be then damnit I am going to be strong! 

So the first reason I work out is because fitness has been a huge part of my lifestyle going almost as far back to when I was still a sperm. However I would be lying if I said that general appeal to women wasn't a motivation. And I don't see anything wrong with that. If someone understands some traits are considered desirable (intelligence, good hygiene) to women, nobody faults them for seeking to make deliberate self improvement in these areas in order to make himself more appealing to women. It is no secret that many women (of all body types) like strong, fit muscular men. However society often takes a cynical view toward men who deliberately address their own fitness levels in an attempt to increase appeal. My wife loves muscular men. I have a good overall shape but I am not a big guy, but you can bet your ass I am going to work my ass off in the weight room in order to make my wife happy. She really likes Chris Hemsworth and I'll constantly tease her about doing extra reps to hold that hammer-wielding home wrecker at bay! And kidding aside, my wife likes what she sees. I'm no body builder, but I am strong for my size and age. My wife's close friend is married to and likes BHM. We were all at the lake together last summer and I had my shirt off. Our friend told my wife that even though she prefers the bigger men, she can see why I appeal so much to my wife and many other women.

Now as far external approval, highest status mates, and the kind of women one is likely to meet while working out, that norm definitely exists. However I'll repeat: a lot of fat women like muscular guys too. In theory if I'm working out hard to impress women I am doing so to impress the kind of women I LIKE. If I happen to increase my appeal to fit women that's fine but that's not what I am going for. Just because one is fit and working to be more fit and gain some level of external acceptance doesn't mean he is doing so to gain said acceptance from other fit women. Case in point: if I discern a fit woman has scoped me out (or my wife does and tells me about it) I think it's nice but I don't really care all that much. But if a BBW does so it excites me. As in adrenaline and accelerated heart rate and such. This happened just the other day when I went to the barber shop. I was in gym clothes (semi form fitting shirt) and a BBW was sitting there waiting for her son. She gave me a few quick glances and when we made eye contact I just smiled. After that her looks at me grew more frequent and longer. She grew fidgity in her seat as she waited. She repeatedly looked at me and smiled. When I stood up she gave me a complete body scan. I made eye contact again and she smiled really big. Now as a married guy I am not going to act on something like this. I'm not going to be overly flirty and strike up a conversation if one is not needed, etc. but it definitely feels good when it's clear a woman finds me attractive. I'd rather have this one fat mom check me out like that then the entire cheerleading squad from the (Super Bowl Champion) Denver Broncos! 

With all of that said, I agree with your conclusion. Fit men likely prefer fit women in far greater numbers than there are guys like me. However I consider myself more of a standard deviation than an outlier. By that I mean guys like me are not isolated examples; there likely are quite a few out there. But as FBD suggests and as I can personally attest to from my own past, many are still in hiding and the number who openly date, pursue, or marry fat women appear a minority.


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## FatBarbieDoll (May 26, 2016)

happily_married said:


> I can only offer anecdotal evidence to support that there are fit guys who openly prefer fat women. Fit guys don't think in unison, and I can only speak for myself. On this thread are two self described fit men (me and fueling fire) who are open about our preferences. I know a lot of fit guys abhor fat women though. On a fitness forum I frequent I've actually been called out (by fit men and women alike) for having the preference I have. What's interesting is some of these guys are former fatties themselves and take a very nasty hardlined approach to people who are overweight.
> 
> 
> I believe this could be internalized fatphobia and is a hatred of self. Many people project their own emotions onto others and don't realize they're doing it.
> ...




He's actually a decent human being overall but it's eye-rolling annoying to have to listen to him yap about fitness 99.9% of the time the family gets together. It's not the talk that bothers me perse but the incessant nature of it. I think he does it because fitness is his validation in life and what makes him feel that's he's good enough. 

My entire family thinks he's the repository of all health-related knowledge just because he is in great shape. I've come to find that most people -- in my experience, anyway -- lack critical thinking skills. They are brainwashed and believe what has been pounded into their heads since birth with little to no ability to do deep questioning. This is one reason why religion spreads.


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## Tad (May 26, 2016)

Maybe try complimenting him on something completely non fitness related? See if you can start steering him to some other paths to get validation? Because talking about it all the time does sound at least in part like a search for validation (it may also be mostly what is on his mind). Even if it is a bit of a reach at first, if you can say something about how well he dresses, or his knowledge of cars, or whatever, maybe he'll start talking that around you more?

No promises, but maybe worth a shot?


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## bigmac (May 27, 2016)

FatBarbieDoll said:


> ...
> 
> My entire family thinks he's the repository of all health-related knowledge just because he is in great shape.
> 
> ...




This is an all too common phenomenon. Health clubs and gyms from coast to coast are staffed by people whose primary qualification is that they look good in shorts and tee shirt.


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## fuelingfire (May 27, 2016)

I agree with a lot of what has been posted here.



FatBarbieDoll said:


> Are fit men just a lot more hesitant to admit their attraction to fat women and actually openly date them? I don't believe there are that many fit dudes who are attracted to big ladies and date them in public but maybe that's because of what I mentioned above.





FatBarbieDoll said:


> Thin guys, though? It may be easier with them. Still, I wonder
> I have a conventionally attractive, super fit step-brother, and my god can he rarely go even one conversation without the talk veering towards what he is doing exercise-wise, foods he is eating, what you "shouldn't" eat, etc.
> 
> I highly doubt he's a secret lover of fatties but it's sure an interesting concept.




I would say fit men are slightly more hesitant about coming out. It crossed my mind a bit, but I was more focused on the crappy clicky people I knew in high school. But when you don’t want to come out anything is a good reason not to: I got a paper cut today, it’s raining so I am not coming out… “date them in public” doesn’t sound like a date when it’s not able to be in public.



Tad said:


> What drives a guy to hit the gym every day and achieve really high levels of fitness? For some it may be purely personal satisfaction. But for many it will be in some part either the general approval it gets (which can also turn into concrete advantages in life), or for impressing women.





Tad said:


> If someone is really set on external approval, they are likely going to also want to aim for the highest status mate they can find. Granted that some people will want that approval in some areas, but not care in other areas.
> 
> If someone is working that hard to impress women, presumably he is seeking women who are in high demand, where he figures he needs to stand out as something exceptional to impress them. Sadly, in our society, that mostly means women who fit a certain physical image.
> 
> ...




I have been in some sort of exercise or sport basically my whole life. I like to joke and tell people the line from American Beauty, “I want to look good naked!” To me it really comes down to, I don’t feel right if I go a few days without exercising. The runners high is real, but you really have to be physically fit to get to it. I feel amazing after weightlifting. It is a huge plus that it helps me look a way that society views favorably upon. In my teens I dated athletic girls, that I was “supposed to” and was surrounded by. A small percent of the population is athletic, a much smaller percent of the population is both athletic and a FA/FFA.
happily_married, I agree with you.
I come from and currently live in a city of 20,000 people. Though I do know other FAs, none of them are athletic (of the confirmed FAs). “treat fitness like a religion” Do you know anyone who goes to Crossfit? I do believe HIIT works, but I want to vomit when I listen go members go on about the greatness of Crossfit.
I had knee problems when playing football in high school and had to stop, but can distance run no problem. Trail running is hard on the body, though the view is much better. When deadlifting I have to keep my feet angled at least 15 degrees or I have issues.



bigmac said:


> This is an all too common phenomenon. Health clubs and gyms from coast to coast are staffed by people whose primary qualification is that they look good in shorts and tee shirt.


Of the gyms I have been to, you are correct. I have heard so much bad advice from “trainers.” But they are good looking, right? Weight and thinness is really only one measure of health.


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## landshark (May 28, 2016)

bigmac said:


> This is an all too common phenomenon. Health clubs and gyms from coast to coast are staffed by people whose primary qualification is that they look good in shorts and tee shirt.



I am of the mindset that people who always understood math make the worst math teachers. To someone who understands math, "not getting it" simply doesn't compute. It makes sense to them so it should make sense to everyone else. They don't know what it's like to not understand math and some of the more complex concepts. They just assume if they explain it then it'll make perfect sense and everyone will understand it. 

There are a lot of fit people and trainers who are like this. They don't understand what it's like to need or want to lose weight. They just say, "move more, eat less" and expect someone who has struggled his/her whole life with weight to be able to apply that into something useful. The truth is it is a complete lifestyle change. Not a lot of trainers have themselves had to go through this so they don't understand their own clients.

I'm not saying a person who has struggled with weight automatically makes a better trainer. But that person has an element of insight into what someone who is losing weight is going through.

Not all trainers are created equal. There are trainers who did an online certification and then there are trainers who are legitimate coaches. Unfortunately a lot of people who are just beginning don't know the difference.



fuelingfire said:


> treat fitness like a religion Do you know anyone who goes to Crossfit? I do believe HIIT works, but I want to vomit when I listen go members go on about the greatness of Crossfit.



Ah, yes, Crossfit. The fifth of the world's five great religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Athiesm, and Crossfit). I won't get into the argument of if it works or not, or if it's superior to conventional training. Suffice to say my single biggest gripe with it is the way crossfitters show absolutely no respect for any other type of training. If you aren't doing crossfit you aren't functionally fit. And of course, they define functionally fit as "doing crossfit" so they give themselves a feeling of exclusivity. 

I'll be off topic quick though if I continue. A lot of people like it, and thrive at it, and good for them. It causes a lot of injuries, so buyer beware. Ultimately it is not the topic of this thread, but I can't read or hear about it without rolling my eyes and groaning.


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## bigmac (Jun 2, 2016)

Tad said:


> *What drives a guy to hit the gym every day* and achieve really high levels of fitness? For some it may be purely personal satisfaction. But for many it will be in some part either the general approval it gets (which can also turn into concrete advantages in life), *or for impressing women*.
> 
> ...



When I was 18 I really really wanted to be thin. I spent most of my second semester of college in the weightroom (with predictable effect upon my GPA). I managed to get down to 185 lbs and into size 32 jeans (I was 6'3" at the time). For the first time in my life women paid attention to me in a good way. Unfortunately I've never been able to maintain the effort it takes to keep my body thin. Some people may be able to go to school, advance their career, and raise a family and still be able to put in enough time at the gym to remain thin. I was never able to do it (at least not for extended periods of time).


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## bigmac (Jun 2, 2016)

When I've been thinner my experiences with women have always been better than when I've been fatter. This hasn't done much to enhance my general view of women. While their are obviously exceptions, my general experience is that women are actually more shallow and more fixated on looks than men.


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## squeezablysoft (Jun 3, 2016)

bigmac said:


> When I was 18 I really really wanted to be thin. I spent most of my second semester of college in the weightroom (with predictable effect upon my GPA). I managed to get down to 185 lbs and into size 32 jeans (I was 6'3" at the time). For the first time in my life women paid attention to me in a good way. Unfortunately I've never been able to maintain the effort it takes to keep my body thin. Some people may be able to go to school, advance their career, and raise a family and still be able to put in enough time at the gym to remain thin. I was never able to do it (at least not for extended periods of time).



*I'm planning to make use of my school's gym, not to lose weight but to build some muscle under my fat so I can carry more weight without having trouble getting around and doing things.*


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## lucca23v2 (Jun 3, 2016)

bigmac said:


> When I've been thinner my experiences with women have always been better than when I've been fatter. This hasn't done much to enhance my general view of women. While their are obviously exceptions, my general experience is that women are actually more shallow and more fixated on looks than men.


 
I have a question for you.. Do you think that maybe it had something to do with you maybe being more confident and maybe more assertive when you are thinner because you perceived yourself to be more conventionally attractive and therefore commanded more positive attention? 

Also........

I think it is a pretty even playing field now when it comes to shallow people. Things were ok and permissible when it is only men looking for "trophy" wives. Now that some women are doing the same thing, it becomes "women are more shallow than men" 

I say what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Men just don't like being subjected to the kind of treatment they as a whole have exerted over women. Now that the tables are being turned, they don't like it.

Sorry.. let me clear up somethings. 
1- I am not saying BigMac does any of this. 
2- When I say men.. I dont mean every male on the planet. There just seem to be a lot more men with this mentality being verbal than there are men that don't think this way.


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## Tad (Jun 3, 2016)

I tend to think that we call someone shallow when they overlook our qualities, because they value other qualities more. After all, even looks do have real value &#8211; in how people are treated in life but also as a proxy for overall health (granted that modern life, with medicine, cosmetics, cheap nutrition, fashion and cosmetic surgery blur the &#8216;smooth skin and high degree of facial symmetry must mean strong immune system and good genetics’ but at some fundamental level our brains do work that way, from what I understand). 

I mean, I’m pretty sure you could make at least a reasonable argument that for a woman with a good career, a good looking partner might be what brings the most value to their children, provided he meets some reasonable levels in other areas (I’m not claiming that it would be a winning argument in a debate, but I think it is at least a defensible position)

Is it more or less shallow to value a face (or butt, whatever) that pleases you over how wealthy the person is? Is it more shallow if they make you feel turned on or if they make you laugh? What about if they share your sexual kink versus your politics/religion/philosophy?


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## landshark (Jun 3, 2016)

lucca23v2 said:


> I have a question for you.. Do you think that maybe it had something to do with you maybe being more confident and maybe more assertive when you are thinner because you perceived yourself to be more conventionally attractive and therefore commanded more positive attention?
> 
> Also........
> 
> ...



Solid. I certainly am not accusing BigMac of the latter two paragraphs but there are a lot of guys out there who are. Pretty much any guy who has subscribed to the "manosphere" or "MGTOW" or called another man a "mangina" (or attempted to revoke another's "man card") can be described by these two paragraphs. Bitter and angry that the tables have turned on them, lashing out at any and all women and any man who values women and places them in high regard. 

Personally I maintain men are far more shallow and/or motivated by appearance than are women. I don't mean to undermine or dismiss another person's experiences and I don't consider my observations universally right. However as a long time pursuer of overweight women one thing I've repeatedly encountered is surprise that a fit guy would want to be with a fat woman. Having been in groups with some BHM over the years, I've encountered a lot of them who are shocked/offended that a woman would turn him down due to not being attracted to him. The underlying message I've had reinforced over the years is fat women do not expect fit/reasonably good looking men to be interested in them and men, regardless of body type to expect women to be interested in them. Certainly there are exceptions, but the trend has been pretty reliable over the years.


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## lucca23v2 (Jun 3, 2016)

Tad, I have always thought that there has to be some kind of physical attraction you have towards a person you don't know and meet at a bar/club. bowling alley, etc. There is nothing else you know about that other person other than they appeal to you physically. An "external" attraction. There is nothing wrong with that. It is how most people get to know each other when there isn't someone to introduce them.

There is also the slow attraction of knowing someone very well. You fall in love with who they are and that is a different kind of attraction because it is an "internal" attraction. This can lead to something romantic, or just friendship. 

Personally, I believe that confidence and feeling good about yourself goes a long way in attracting someone. JMHP


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## azerty (Jun 3, 2016)

lucca23v2 said:


> I say what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Men just don't like being subjected to the kind of treatment they as a whole have exerted over women. Now that the tables are being turned, they don't like it.



I hope women in the future will not treat mean as we have treated them. Otherwise we, men, won't like it at all. In some parts of the world tables aren't yet being turned, and I hope they'll be quickly. 
I don't know why but I believe women, in general have more wisdom than men.


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## bigmac (Jun 3, 2016)

lucca23v2 said:


> I have a question for you.. Do you think that maybe it had something to do with you maybe being more confident and maybe more assertive when you are thinner because you perceived yourself to be more conventionally attractive and therefore commanded more positive attention?
> 
> ...




Sorry but I think the _power of positive thinking_ thing is a bunch of BS.


http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2014/12/positive-thinking-doesnt-work-heres-what-does.html


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/26/opinion/sunday/the-problem-with-positive-thinking.html


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## bigmac (Jun 3, 2016)

lucca23v2 said:


> ...
> 
> Personally, I believe that confidence and feeling good about yourself goes a long way in attracting someone. JMHP




The only time my attitude ever attracted a female was one night when, after an argument with my girlfriend, I rode my motorcycle very fast and recklessly to a notorious dive bar with the intent of fighting someone -- anyone (hey I was 19).

As I was leaning on the cigarette machine glowering at the world I was approached by a very pretty blonde. Turns out her boyfriend was doing some time in the local correctional facility and she needed someone to sand in for awhile.


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## lucca23v2 (Jun 3, 2016)

bigmac said:


> Sorry but I think the _power of positive thinking_ thing is a bunch of BS.
> 
> 
> http://nymag.com/scienceofus/2014/12/positive-thinking-doesnt-work-heres-what-does.html
> ...



I didn't say positive thinking. There are times when we accomplish something that we though we would not be able to and when we complete it we are so proud of ourselves that it carries over to other things. It gives you extra confidence. I think that when you have that extra confidence it is hard for others to ignore you. You carry yourself differently when you have confidence in yourself.


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## agouderia (Jun 4, 2016)

lucca23v2 said:


> I say what is good for the goose is good for the gander. Men just don't like being subjected to the kind of treatment they as a whole have exerted over women. Now that the tables are being turned, they don't like it.



150% subscribe to this assessment.



bigmac said:


> The only time my attitude ever attracted a female was one night when, after an argument with my girlfriend, I rode my motorcycle very fast and recklessly to a notorious dive bar with the intent of fighting someone -- anyone (hey I was 19).
> 
> As I was leaning on the cigarette machine glowering at the world I was approached by a very pretty blonde. Turns out her boyfriend was doing some time in the local correctional facility and she needed someone to sand in for awhile.



Sorry - but your views of how to garner attention from the opposite sex seem to come directly out of a badly scripted romance novel or C-class rom-com.

Which educated person beyond their early 20's honestly still expects to find love at first sight in a bar??? 

The vast majority of humanity of both sexes is not that attractive to inspire love at first sight. It is mostly a mix of factors - looks, attitude, voice, some common ground, a connecting point - that inspires true interest and attraction for anything more than a quick lay. 
And with the latter we're back to the question again of how men and women are traditionally socialized.


In general - it would do this entire thread good if posters took a closer look at actual historic and sociological facts instead of only their personal micro-census.


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## bigmac (Jun 4, 2016)

happily_married said:


> ...
> 
> Personally I maintain men are far more shallow and/or motivated by appearance than are women. ...



I have no doubt that men talk more shit about fat women. But when push comes to shove guys actions diverge from their talk. I've heard lots of guys say they'd dump/divorce their girl if she got fat. However, they never actually do. Women, however, have no problem dumping guys who get fat (they'll seldom admit that was the reason but its usually pretty obvious).


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## bigmac (Jun 4, 2016)

agouderia said:


> ...
> 
> And with the latter we're back to the question again of how men and women are *traditionally socialized*.
> 
> In general - it would do this entire thread good if posters took a closer look at actual historic and sociological facts instead of only their personal micro-census.



The traditional script is dead. At the low end of the socioeconomic ladder guys can no longer support families -- indeed they are often a financial liability. These guys better have looks -- otherwise they're SOL. At the high end women are no longer financially dependant. A good career is no longer enough to land a high status woman. High status guys now have to go to the gym as well as grad school.


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## landshark (Jun 4, 2016)

bigmac said:


> I have no doubt that men talk more shit about fat women. But when push comes to shove guys actions diverge from their talk. I've heard lots of guys say they'd dump/divorce their girl if she got fat. However, they never actually do. *Women, however, have no problem dumping guys who get fat (they'll seldom admit that was the reason but its usually pretty obvious).*


 
How can you verify this? I think it happens both ways, but to make a statement that it is more prevalent one way or the other I am not certain can be verified beyond "my observations."


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## lucca23v2 (Jun 4, 2016)

bigmac said:


> I have no doubt that men talk more shit about fat women. But when push comes to shove guys actions diverge from their talk. I've heard lots of guys say they'd dump/divorce their girl if she got fat. However, they never actually do. Women, however, have no problem dumping guys who get fat (they'll seldom admit that was the reason but its usually pretty obvious).



I am not sure about this statement. Men might not admit that is why they are dumping their wives so they have affairs because they no longer find their wife attractive and in the divorce papers say that she was not giving him enough sex.. but that is a broad statement. Does this statement mean she is refusing him, or is it that he no longer wants to initiate sex and turns her down when she does because he is no longer physically attracted to her? 

As far as women, well.. with things being "equal" more women are being vocal about not liking how their men have gained weight and that they will leave said husband if he doesn't lose the weight, but I honestly have not found that to be the case in most situations.


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## bigmac (Jun 4, 2016)

happily_married said:


> How can you verify this? I think it happens both ways, but to make a statement that it is more prevalent one way or the other I am not certain can be verified beyond "my observations."



Women initiate over 70% of divorces today and are far more likely to express marital dissatisfaction. Quality of intimate relations is often an issue once a woman no longer finds her mate attractive (guys are more forgiving -- the old adage that guys will fuck anything can actually work to keep marriages together).


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## lucca23v2 (Jun 5, 2016)

bigmac said:


> Women initiate over 70% of divorces today and are far more likely to express marital dissatisfaction. Quality of intimate relations is often an issue once a woman no longer finds her mate attractive (guys are more forgiving -- the old adage that guys will fuck anything can actually work to keep marriages together).


 
LOL.. sure men are more forgiving.. that is why they cheat on their wives and go for a newer model. That is extremely forgiving. lol..

Fact of the matter is.. these days women might initiate more divorces because they know they don't have to stay in a crappy marriage if it is not working for them because they can make their own money.


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## bigmac (Jun 5, 2016)

lucca23v2 said:


> LOL.. sure men are more forgiving.. that is why they cheat on their wives and go for a newer model. That is extremely forgiving. lol..
> 
> Fact of the matter is.. these days women might initiate more divorces because they know they don;t have to stay in a crappy marriage if it is not working for them because they can make their own money.



Actually women cheat just as much as men: _about 20 percent of both men and women copped to having cheated on their current partners._

http://www.menshealth.com/sex-women/female-infidelity

And lack of sexual satisfaction is a major reason women consider their marriages crappy. This of course is often related to a woman no longer finding her partner sexy.

The trope of guys trading in their wives for a newer model is not as common as many think and is generally limited to very rich men with conservative attitudes (often with weird orange hair).


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## landshark (Jun 5, 2016)

bigmac said:


> Women initiate over 70% of divorces today and are far more likely to express marital dissatisfaction. Quality of intimate relations is often an issue once a woman no longer finds her mate attractive (guys are more forgiving -- the old adage that guys will fuck anything can actually work to keep marriages together).



That may be true once a guy is already in a relationship. It certainly is not universal though: I know more than a few women who have been dumped over weight gain resulting. That women initiate more divorces doesn't even remotely support your argument: you have to take a sample and discern cause from effect. Due to the positive vs normative nature of your statements I suspected you were either ready to support your argument with such analysis or more likely, ultimately just relying on anecdotal evidence and a couple broad-brush statistics.

But for the sake of discussion, let's say men are less likely to leave a relationship after a woman puts on some weight. Let's say they want to but they don't do it. That is a bold assumption, but let's make it for the sake of the conversation. It still does not speak to initial attraction. And when it comes to getting one's foot in the door, I think society is still a lot more draconian toward overweight women than overweight men. That women who have a BHM for a partner do not get the same castigation as men who have a fat woman for a partner seems to support this. I've seen a lot out there to suggest any man who wants to date a fat woman must be himself undesirable in some way shape or form. I don't see the same degree of this logic applied to women who like bigger men. It's still just personal observation, but it's reinforced by a lot of people both here on Dims (and other similar forums) as well as many places in every day life. Friends, coworkers, relatives, etc. When it comes to initial attraction, fat women seem to have it much harder than fat men. 



bigmac said:


> Actually women cheat just as much as men: _about 20 percent of both men and women copped to having cheated on their current partners._
> 
> http://www.menshealth.com/sex-women/female-infidelity
> 
> And lack of sexual satisfaction is a major reason women consider their marriages crappy. *This of course is often related to a woman no longer finding her partner sexy.*



What these "skin deep" stats don't show you is cause and effect. Why do women consider their marriages crappy? You attempt to answer that with the bolded statement but so far in this discussion that seems to be a matter of your personal bias and interpretation. 



bigmac said:


> The trope of guys trading in their wives for a newer model is not as common as many think and is generally limited to very rich men with conservative attitudes (often with weird orange hair).



Again, I challenge you to support with data, retract your statements (or at a minimum walk back to a degree that you recognize your position is not universally right), or be dismissed as one with an ax to grind, especially now that you've introduced your political biases into the discussion.


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## Colonial Warrior (Oct 7, 2016)

bigmac said:


> Its been my experience that the majority of BBWs would much rather hookup with a thin guy.



That was my experience too.


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## TwoSwords (Jan 28, 2017)

I'm really not sure how other FAs are perceived. I have no experience with being thin, or with how thin people are treated relative to how I'm treated. I think this may be a hard issue to address, since very few people have experienced both, or can make the comparison accurately.

Speaking personally, I gained weight because I needed cheering up, and being able to squeeze my soft upper arms always works to cheer me up when I need it. Also, it makes me feel like less of a hypocrite, which is always nice. I'm not aware that my weight has interfered with anything romantically, though. There are bigger issues that tend to get in the way first.


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## squeezablysoft (Jan 29, 2017)

TwoSwords said:


> Speaking personally, I gained weight because I needed cheering up, and being able to squeeze my soft upper arms always works to cheer me up when I need it. Also, it makes me feel like less of a hypocrite, which is always nice. I'm not aware that my weight has interfered with anything romantically, though. There are bigger issues that tend to get in the way first.



Same with me.


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## AmandaLynn (Feb 6, 2017)

loopytheone said:


> I'm a BBW and an FFA. As somebody who is asexual, I don't have a lot of physical desires but I've always been attracted to fat people in general, even as a kid. It is hard for me to be physically attracted to weight/fatness but not to the person as a whole without feeling like an objectifying creep, but as I've gotten older I've finally learnt to reconcile these two things in my head. It is okay to watch videos and look at pictures of people that they put into the public domain to be admired and fantasised over by strangers. You have their consent to admire their bodies. And as for being in relationships, the fact that I'm not sexually attracted to them as a whole is okay too; it doesn't make my love for them and their charm and their heart and their beauty any less valid and real. This realisation, combined with looking back at pictures of myself, made me realise something else.
> 
> I have always been fixated on fat, even as a little kid, and that is okay. That is why, growing up, I always saw myself as fat and huge even though, looking at photos etc... I was a very scrawny child and teenager. I was just super focused on what little softness I did have, ever since I was a kid. And now I understand that I can come to accept that I like being bigger, that I like being soft and full and round. I don't have to beat myself up about it or hate myself for liking it anymore. I am fat, and I like fat, I like my partners to be fat and I love people, fat or thin, for being who they are on the inside, nothing else. Cliche though that might be. And once I love you, as a person... it doesn't matter what you look like, you will be gorgeous to me. And I damn well expect that if you are my partner, you find my fat-ass self every bit as gorgeous as well. :kiss2:



Very well said


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