# Um, Hyde Park?



## FaxMachine1234

Did it go bye-bye?


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## fatcharlie

I thought the same


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## mossystate

Dear Conrad, 

Please disregard my PM.



Thanks, 

Mossystate


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## Mathias

Wow, didn't expect that!


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## SamanthaNY

well, it's there - but it seems all we can do is read it. 

Interesting.

So... with no directive, I guess this mean no more political conversations/fights.

*YAY!!!*


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## charlieversion2

I knew that place would implode someday...


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## Weeze

One shitstorm down.


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## exile in thighville

lol this is probably my fault.


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## SamanthaNY

I wonder what the last straw was? It should be memorialized, somehow.


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## fatgirlflyin

SamanthaNY said:


> well, it's there - but it seems all we can do is read it.
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> So... with no directive, I guess this mean no more political conversations/fights.
> 
> *YAY!!!*




Just means that threads like those will just start popping up elsewhere.


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## BothGunsBlazing

if memory of Hyde Park

FUCK FUCK FUCK PIGS FUCKIN' FUCK ASSHOLES!! ASS!!! 

ps. guns<3


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## Weeze

So
Does this mean that the people who post ONLY in hyde park will go away? 

or like, are we actually going to start talking about, you know, being fat/fa's and shit?

They always blew my mind 

You can argue politics anywhere, but how many other places can you talk about fat issues?


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## SamanthaNY

Ella Bella said:


> Just means that threads like those will just start popping up elsewhere.



Well I hope not. That's how the 'Park was created to begin with - too many political threads showing up everywhere else. 

I'm thinking there's some idea as to how to handle the people/threads that will no doubt try to go on other boards, but I guess we're supposed to wait and see what happens....? Neato. It's kinda like a TV mini-series that way.


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## Green Eyed Fairy

What have I missed? Is Hyde Park really closed...and for good??


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## exile in thighville

dims should have a /b/ board.


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## mossystate

The Lounge will be next.

No more complaining about Hyde Park. No more pictures of animals and rainbows! What do you like best about the last poster...only allowed if it has to do with fat.


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## William

maybe it is a private board now

William




Ekim said:


> Did it go bye-bye?


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## Mathias

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> What have I missed? Is Hyde Park really closed...and for good??



Seems as if we can only read it now.


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## SamanthaNY

Maybe it's just one of those punishment things, where it's closed down for two weeks (?) to teach people a lesson about appreciating things, and then will unceremoniously return to full usage. 

But... we don't know! The suspense is killing me. I hope it lasts.


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## Ned Sonntag

I kind of necessitated HP 5yrs ago with a Karl Rove-as-evil-BHM diss-post called 'Rove, He Weighed'.:eat2: But overall it encouraged bad mental hygiene.:doh: I've got local wingnuts and moonbats to tussle with at the blogsection of www.capecodtoday.com so I'll be OK thanks very much.


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## Sandie S-R

Ella Bella said:


> Just means that threads like those will just start popping up elsewhere.



If they do - I'm sure they will be deleted.


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## exile in thighville

how am i supposed to find somewhere to complain about things on the internet


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## Mathias

exile in thighville said:


> how am i supposed to find somewhere to complain about things on the internet



Blog it......


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## exile in thighville

Mathias said:


> Blog it......



the way you read that post probably explains why i had a thread called "rape: finally legal" removed for "advocating antisocial or illegal behavior"


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## mossystate

not really the same

nah

Hyde Park was needed out here. For those who whine about its very existence, there was no reason to gooooo there. Seems it was a good idea to have a dumping ground for off the fat topics of things.


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## fatgirlflyin

Sandie S-R said:


> If they do - I'm sure they will be deleted.



Right, and the moderators will spend all their time deleting political posts. 
I don't care whether Hyde Park exists here or not, it was just kinda nice to not have to wade through politics to find something that was of interest to me.


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## BigBeautifulMe

If it could have happened in a mostly civilized manner, mossy, I would have agreed with you, but unfortunately, it rarely happened that way. As it was...in my opinion (speaking as a person, not a mod here) it was an emotional drain, and a drain on resources. It also encouraged people with very militant/extreme views to post in HP, and ignore the rest of the boards. IMHO, we are much better off without it. There are numerous other blogs/forums out there for political things - it's not like there's no place to talk about those issues on the internet.


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## AnnMarie

Ella Bella said:


> Right, and the moderators will spend all their time deleting political posts.
> I don't care whether Hyde Park exists here or not, it was just kinda nice to not have to wade through politics to find something that was of interest to me.




Nah, deletin' is real quick, ya see. 

_*IF*_ HP is gone, the amount of time ridding the boards of that junk will be nothing in comparison to the amount of time spent by mods working on that board. Not even relatively close in manpower.


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## exile in thighville

mossystate said:


> not really the same



i'm all ears. would your first thought when someone posts an article about afghanistan loosening rape laws and titling the thread "rape: finally legal" really be that they condone it?


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## mossystate

exile in thighville said:


> i'm all ears



wave them for me...it is a lil warm in here


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## Carrie

It's like watching Cary Grant and Rosalind Russell trade barbs. Except... different.


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## Mathias

exile in thighville said:


> i'm all ears. would your first thought when someone posts an article about afghanistan loosening rape laws and titling the thread "rape: finally legal" really be that they condone it?



Maybe if you worded it differently next time.


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## goofy girl

I never ventured into HP much because it always gives me anxiety attacks. I do like that it separates most of the anxiety attack inducing threads into one place that I can avoid. I don't like how it causes people to feel differently about each other on other boards. (or, at least it feels like some people attack other people in any way possible on other boards sometimes, and my feeling is that it primarily originates on HP--but I have no idea if that's true, I just feel like it does)


and per usual..I have no idea if this makes sense to anyone but myself..haha


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## mossystate

BigBeautifulMe said:


> If it could have happened in a mostly civilized manner, mossy, I would have agreed with you, but unfortunately, it rarely happened that way. As it was...in my opinion (speaking as a person, not a mod here) it was an emotional drain, and a drain on resources. It also encouraged people with very militant/extreme views to post in HP, and ignore the rest of the boards. IMHO, we are much better off without it. There are numerous other blogs/forums out there for political things - it's not like there's no place to talk about those issues on the internet.




Eh, lots of people post on one or two boards and ignore the rest. I think if you look at the number of people who view a certain board at any given time...you will catch my drift. That is as militant. There are lots of places to post pics of dogs and cats and tell jokes and yap about WOW. I always saw HP as just another part of the sometimes not so Happy Meal. I think there were actually fewer ' extreme views ' than what is/was believed. But, if it's gone..it's gone. I suppose it was not a good idea to have a forum called Hyde Park...*L*...as that name screams...well...heat.


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## exile in thighville

Mathias said:


> Maybe if you worded it differently next time.



your natural inclination is to assume someone is more likely to condone rape than to be sarcastic


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## mossystate

Carrie said:


> It's like watching Cary Grant and Rosalind Russell trade barbs. Except... different.



you dropped this....* hands her the ' wire ' *....


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## Mathias

exile in thighville said:


> your natural inclination is to assume someone is more likely to condone rape than to be sarcastic



Well why post something like that and word it that way to begin with?


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## AnnMarie

Hey.... let's all .... oh, I don't know - stop. 

If it's closed, we don't move the arguments about things there here - so let's just drop the rehash of closed topics and stuff. 

Okay? Thanks.


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## exile in thighville

mossystate said:


> wave them for me...it is a lil warm in here



better get the ruby slippers before you melt


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## mossystate

exile in thighville said:


> i'm all ears. would your first thought when someone posts an article about afghanistan loosening rape laws and titling the thread "rape: finally legal" really be that they condone it?



this is not hyde park...*L*...listen, you know what you try and do with what you try and sometimes...do...I know what you you were saying...trust me


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## mossystate

exile in thighville said:


> better get the ruby slippers before you melt





Dan, your crush on me is so over the top!


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## exile in thighville

Mathias said:


> Well why post something like that and word it that way to begin with?



because it fits my consistent regimen of expressing shock and disgust via tongue-in-cheek humor that helps me get through the week?


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## exile in thighville

mossystate said:


> Dan, your crush on me is so over the top!



and then we swoop in for the 'tang


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## Dr. Feelgood

Carrie said:


> It's like watching Cary Grant and Rosalind Russell trade barbs. Except... different.




Funny you should say that. It reminded me of watching Moe, Larry, and Curly trade barbs. This probably says something about our respective levels of sophistication.


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## exile in thighville

this thread sums up my good riddance basically.


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## mossystate

exile in thighville said:


> and then we swoop in for the 'tang



You need to go look at pictures of kittens in bowties. Get thee to the Lounge, while you still can!!


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## Green Eyed Fairy

Do I get to be Glenda the good witch? Please oh please let me wave my big........wand and send out those bubbles........


Oh, and I love poppies :batting:


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## SamanthaNY

exile in thighville said:


> this thread sums up my good riddance basically.



don't tease


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## Smushygirl

Oh, FFS!!! What am I gonna do now?!!! I loved Hyde Park!


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## Wild Zero

BothGunsBlazing said:


> if memory of Hyde Park
> 
> FUCK FUCK FUCK PIGS FUCKIN' FUCK ASSHOLES!! ASS!!!
> 
> ps. guns<3



mix in an all-caps DOUCHEBAG and you're gold my man.


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## Green Eyed Fairy

I blame Wild Zero for all of this.......


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## fatgirlflyin

Makes sense. I didn't look at it that way. 



AnnMarie said:


> Nah, deletin' is real quick, ya see.
> 
> _*IF*_ HP is gone, the amount of time ridding the boards of that junk will be nothing in comparison to the amount of time spent by mods working on that board. Not even relatively close in manpower.


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## exile in thighville

if people really want a space for this same crew to talk politics and stuff i could talk to some friends about web space and setting up a board not on this site. but i'm partial to unmoderated forums and banning serious offenders outright (spam, threats).


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## imfree

I didn't really think that thing would work when
I applied power to it. Sorry I blew up Hyde Park, 
Guys, my bad! 

View attachment DoomsDayDevice wb sm.jpg


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## Sandie S-R

imfree said:


> I didn't really think that thing would work when
> I applied power to it. Sorry I blew up Hyde Park,
> Guys, my bad!




Aha, so it is all *YOUR* fault!!


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## Mathias

imfree said:


> I didn't really think that thing would work when
> I applied power to it. Sorry I blew up Hyde Park,
> Guys, my bad!



Hey, you must have stole my blueprints!


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## mossystate

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

TraciVaJoJo has been very quiet this weekend.


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## GWARrior

i miss HP


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## 1300 Class

I just died a little now. HP will be missed. Sadly missed. I suppose I'll just have to go emo now instead. 

I bet it was Williams and all his stupid threads.






I don't want to sound like a broken record, but where the heck am I going to do the majority of my posting now? :cry:



> "You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"


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## fffff

I love fat. fat fat fat. 
Fat all day fat all night. 
fat fat and nothing else.


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## TotallyReal

Alas, poor DELIMAN6655321
I knew him, Conrad


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## 1300 Class

Now I'll have to find something productive to do during the day now. :sigh:


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## TotallyReal

This is for all my people
the whole Hyde Park Crew
HPC, representing Chucks and Timbs

RIP to those who have gone and stay safe to those in lockdown
get lifted and stay strong

Russell Williams
Zandoz
EtobicokeFA
Ned Sonntag 
Australian Lord	
A Bolder Boulder FA	
Wild Zero 
Ekim 
mango
Canonista

And many more -- Peace HPC, may we meet in Heaven


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## 1300 Class

Three cheers for the old sport!


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## SamanthaNY

I love how no one knows for sure what's going on. 

How do you know it's gone for good? Maybe you're just being spanked, like they do to the chatroom when the kids start a ruckus. It gets shut down for a week or so, then it comes back and everyone behaves and has juice and cookies.


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## FaxMachine1234

And yet the Foodee board survives. What a world, what a world...


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## FaxMachine1234

SamanthaNY said:


> I love how no one knows for sure what's going on.
> 
> How do you know it's gone for good? Maybe you're just being spanked, like they do to the chatroom when the kids start a ruckus. It gets shut down for a week or so, then it comes back and everyone behaves and has juice and cookies.



But if that's the case, I don't know what thread would have caused it. We've had several near meltdowns over there in the last year or so and the mods barely even spoke up, but there wasn't anything particularly contentious last time I checked.

Also, I fail to see how this'll help Dims' revenue if they discourage people who mainly visit Hyde Park from dropping by.


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## Mathias

I won't miss all of the Anti gun and anti cop threads...


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## BothGunsBlazing

DOUCHEBAGS!!!

okay, I think I filled my Hyde Park quota for the day, I can go back to the paysite board now. :wubu::wubu:


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## imfree

Sandie S-R said:


> Aha, so it is all *YOUR* fault!!



I could have done worse, at least I didn't reverse the 
magnetic polarity of the whole earth. Hahaha!!!,
Tesla hasn't even done that.


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## FaxMachine1234

BothGunsBlazing said:


> As I mentioned earlier. This is for people who only seemed to post in Hyde Park. Is there some kind of fetish for wanting to discuss politics and what not with fatties and their admirers?
> 
> Maybe the mods in Hyde Park were hoping some of the bigger assholes on the forum would eventually stop acting like, y'know assholes.  No more Hyde Park .. who am I going to condescend to now?!



Wow, you can just feel the love.


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## fffff

TotallyReal said:


> Alas, poor DELIMAN6655321
> I knew him, Conrad




Yeah, I loved Hyde, but my ignore list was getting sort of long...


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## BothGunsBlazing

Ekim said:


> Wow, you can just feel the love.



Oh man, I totally ended up editing that, but you responded before I could. 

I did say people who ONLY posted in Hyde Park.


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## Ned Sonntag

TotallyReal said:


> Alas, poor DELIMAN6655321
> I knew him, Conrad


 End of the Olive Loaf!


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## Fascinita

RIP, HP


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## FaxMachine1234

BothGunsBlazing said:


> Oh man, I totally ended up editing that, but you responded before I could.
> 
> I did say people who ONLY posted in Hyde Park.



Ha, then good to know I'm only 2/3rds douchebag. At least that's better then a lot of people my age!


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## SamanthaNY

Ekim said:


> But if that's the case, I don't know what thread would have caused it. We've had several near meltdowns over there in the last year or so and the mods barely even spoke up, but there wasn't anything particularly contentious last time I checked.
> 
> Also, I fail to see how this'll help Dims' ad revenue if they discourage people who mainly visit Hyde Park from dropping by.



He threatened to shut Hyde down a month or so ago (I don't remember why), in a thread on the WLS board. I sorta :blink: when I saw it, but couldn't find it when I tried to go back. I thought I dreamed it, lol - but I didn't, because here we are. I won't miss it, but I do think HP was a pressure valve of sorts. I looked on it as a sort of website toilet, where the inevitable and necessary waste could be deposited without sullying the rest of the house. I wonder where (and if) that pressure will show up now. 

For all it's faults, Hyde Park has always been true to itself in it's overall assholic consistency, so if that type of thing pisses you off, why create it to begin with. I just wonder what the vision was, and where the actuality veered off. But, ya know... ours is not to reason why, ours it just to do or.... don't, in this case.


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## Sandie S-R

Mathias said:


> I won't miss all of the Anti gun and anti cop threads...



*DO NOT start that kind of discussion on any of the other forums. Political commentary is no longer allowed here, and we will shut it down if it starts up on any of the other forums. 

Moderator*

Now, go back to chewing the fat.


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## FaxMachine1234

Sandie S-R said:


> *DO NOT start that kind of discussion on any of the other forums. Political commentary is no longer allowed here, and we will shut it down if it starts up on any of the other forums.
> 
> Moderator*
> 
> Now, go back to chewing the fat.



But if you so much as mention politics, heaven help you. C'mon guys, let's all dance around the may pole!


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## Edens_heel

Personally I'm thrilled to see it drop dead - every time I stuck my head in there I just felt such anxiety and disgust at some of the vitriol and bitterness on both sides of the coin, and I hated being sucked into some of the more retarded debates that went on there, so much so that I self-banned myself from that social catastrophuk.

Good riddance to bad vibes.


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## FaxMachine1234

SamanthaNY said:


> He threatened to shut Hyde down a month or so ago (I don't remember why), in a thread on the WLS board. I sorta :blink: when I saw it, but couldn't find it when I tried to go back. I thought I dreamed it, lol - but I didn't, because here we are. I won't miss it, but I do think HP was a pressure valve of sorts. I looked on it as a sort of website toilet, where the inevitable and necessary waste could be deposited without sullying the rest of the house. I wonder where (and if) that pressure will show up now.



Exactly, it was a neccessary "evil" in order to keep the other boards on track, so it's rather odd to see it removed without a good reason.


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## mossystate

Well, I did get a kick out of some of the ' self-banning ' that went on...as the people then posted in HP...but only now and again.



Good times. I will miss it.


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## Smushygirl

Yay, we can all go back to posting about feeding women and animals to death!!!


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## fffff

Smushygirl said:


> Yay, we can all go back to posting about feeding women and animals to death!!!



I just feel like since I'm not into gaining weight or pornography there's just nothing here for me, and maybe there never was. Can't just be a fat girl talking about nonsexual stuff. 

Gotta do something to the fill the time tho... maybe I'll take up needlepoint...


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## AnnMarie

Yup, that's all that's left here if that's the only place you look.


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## AnnMarie

fffff said:


> I just feel like since I'm not into gaining weight or pornography there's just nothing here for me, and maybe there never was. Can't just be a fat girl talking about nonsexual stuff.
> 
> Gotta do something to the fill the time tho... maybe I'll take up needlepoint...




There is a fashion board, a health board, a lounge that is non-fat related materials, a main board that is mostly fat and culture related, events, etc. 

I'm not into weight gain or Politics (here), and while I have a paysite, it takes up about 1% of my time here and posts. Somehow I managed to rack up 15k posts about other stuff.... miracle of miracles.


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## FaxMachine1234

So the Hyde Park board was too off-topic, but the Lounge is deeply vital to peoples' lives? We can't talk about the economy, but we _are_ allowed to ask each other for our favorite poems. (no offense, eightyseven  )


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## Sandie S-R

fffff said:


> I just feel like since I'm not into gaining weight or pornography there's just nothing here for me, and maybe there never was. Can't just be a fat girl talking about nonsexual stuff.
> 
> Gotta do something to the fill the time tho... maybe I'll take up needlepoint...



Honestly? 

You think that without Hyde Park, all that will be talked about here is weight gain and pornography??

I guess you find what you look for. 

Personally I find there is alot of fun, interesting and intelligent conversation that goes on here that is not about weight gain or pornography. But maybe you and I are hanging out in different forums here. 

Explore a little more - there really is a lot here.


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## AnnMarie

Ekim said:


> So the Hyde Park board was too off-topic, but the Lounge is deeply vital to peoples' lives? We can't talk about the economy, but we _are_ allowed to ask each other for our favorite poems. (no offense, eightyseven  )




Politics was NEVER allowed here until HP.... basically it's just going back to that. It's about the divisiveness and infighting, not just being "off topic". 


If it was civilized it would still be there. It wasn't, so it's not.


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## Green Eyed Fairy

Smushygirl said:


> Yay, we can all go back to posting about feeding women and animals to death!!!



Lol yes....I foresee the bullshit overflowing into that other dims toilet now.......


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## Tina

Ekim said:


> So the Hyde Park board was too off-topic, but the Lounge is deeply vital to peoples' lives? We can't talk about the economy, but we _are_ allowed to ask each other for our favorite poems. (no offense, eightyseven  )


The Lounge, in general, is light-hearted. I wouldn't say it could never happen, because I've seen stranger things, but I've never experienced people who used to be friends coming away from a contentious poetry thread now feeling hurt and like they don't care to know that person any more.

As someone who had moderated that board from its inception, I've seen a lot there. There have been some very heartening posts and threads, and some bonding, too. But more often, it turned into a place where too many were unkind to each other. There were some good discussions, but it was rare that topics that were at all contentious would stay cordial. When people feel passionately about something, it can often turn heated -- and it often did. That, in and of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing, but people starting out friends and ending up full of antipathy for each other was never the goal for HP. I say these things from my perspective as a moderator only, not as the person in charge, obviously. 

And criminy, I hope there's more going on here than feeding women or aminals, or I've been in the wrong place for over 10 years!


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## Seth Warren

Honestly, I think every board needs a place like Hyde Park. If you don't want to play rough, stay away. Simple, no? Without a defined "boxing ring," people are just going to take their crap to all the other forums and the mods don't need that extra work.


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## Weeze

Ekim said:


> So the Hyde Park board was too off-topic, but the Lounge is deeply vital to peoples' lives? We can't talk about the economy, but we _are_ allowed to ask each other for our favorite poems. (no offense, eightyseven  )




Get over it.


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## Admiral_Snackbar

Well, all I can say is that since the election, the threads seem to have become extremely angry and bitter, not to mention the sheer amount of bandwidth with all the posting of the comics which I am sure are creating a sort of event horizon on his PC now, without the ability to post and all.

HP was an area I really enjoyed, mainly because as other said T wasn't into the foodee, feedee, gaining thing. I saw what happened on the WLS board when things became an issue for the moderator, and that's his thing. I just never thought it would come down to blocking an entire board.

But I assume there's a backstory I missed--some event that forced the shutdown; if it's the sheer amount of time the mods are spending in that forum removing/censoring/suspending threads, then I can understand--it's a lot of work, better left probably to a board with politics and non-fat discussions as it's charter.

If nothing else, now it gives me a reason to spend less time on Dimensions.


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## Wagimawr

exile in thighville said:


> dims should have a /b/ board.


OH GOD NO THE HORROR



SamanthaNY said:


> Maybe it's just one of those punishment things, where it's closed down for two weeks (?) to teach people a lesson about appreciating things


I'm honestly surprised people will miss it, if it was bothering so many people.



Seth Warren said:


> Honestly, I think every board needs a place like Hyde Park. If you don't want to play rough, stay away.


It's not really playing rough when you're moderating and censoring (and it was well done and fair moderating and censoring, but still, I never quite saw the need for it. Let the assholes be assholes).


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## exile in thighville

the problem with hyde park is that it should be an outlet for vitriol and agitation with the world but crybabies tried to use it to hide under the mods' legs and tattle HE WAS MEEN instead of playing hardball and IGNORING people saying things too uh passionately. people aren't going to be politically correct in a political forum, and the specious rules it had ("no condoning illegal or antisocial behavior"...what does this extend to? legalization of marijuana?) were just a huge wreck waiting to happen. we didn't deserve it, so it's gone. stop whining.

i don't even want to fucking know what mossy's pm to conrad concerned.


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## FaxMachine1234

krismiss said:


> Get over it.



And already it's a kinder, friendlier board.


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## FaxMachine1234

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> If nothing else, now it gives me a reason to spend less time on Dimensions.



I'm with you on that, but I think it'll be good for my peace of mind to not think about this place as much, as pleasant as it is...


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## Weeze

Ekim said:


> And already it's a kinder, friendlier board.



LOL.
Leave hyde park a little more, and maybe you'll notice that while i'm a smartass some days, i'm pretty much nice and sunshine-shitting with everyone.
Seriously.


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## 1300 Class

Yeah, for its more the shock than anything else. 

Why is it gone? Purely, out of interest?


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## Victim

Australian Lord said:


> Yeah, for its more the shock than anything else.
> 
> Why is it gone? Purely, out of interest?




Because the only thing fat about it was the bandwidth it was wasting?


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## mossystate

exile in thighville said:


> the problem with hyde park is that it should be an outlet for vitriol and agitation with the world but crybabies tried to use it to hide under the mods' legs and tattle HE WAS MEEN instead of playing hardball and IGNORING people saying things too uh passionately. people aren't going to be politically correct in a political forum, and the specious rules it had ("no condoning illegal or antisocial behavior"...what does this extend to? legalization of marijuana?) were just a huge wreck waiting to happen. we didn't deserve it, so it's gone. stop whining.
> 
> i don't even want to fucking know what mossy's pm to conrad concerned.




FFS, dan...really.

Talk about whining. You are just pissed off that you don't get to say everything you want to say. Well, deal with it. None of us get a free pass. None of us.

As for my PM to Conrad. Of course you want to know. And even if you don't, I am going to tell you, just so you can stop this " oh, I bet I was the one who pushed HP off the Dims map. I am too honest and incredible for this place ". I PM'd Conrad when I did not know that I was not the only one for whom HP had ' disappeared '. I was wondering why I had been banned from the forum. It was about me...not you. Hate to break it to you. 

Speaking of crybabies. You could no more handle the MEEN/' truth ' than any of the people you are upset with.


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## exile in thighville

i have fatter fish to fuck


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## tonynyc

So now our favorite condiment is gone! no more hot sauce  - time to substitute for another spice....

I found Hyde Park amusing - certainly worth a few good laughs...

And at the end of the day ...shouldn't Dims be a place to escape from the usual agitation and bullshit that folks have to deal with everyday.


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## Wagimawr

mossystate said:


> None of us get a free pass. None of us.


Why not? Why not have a place where anyone can say anything they want without fear of retribution (save for where it violates internet or international law)? I can absolutely understand not wanting a place like that in a place you care about, though.


----------



## mossystate

exile in thighville said:


> i have fatter fish to fuck



cool...a new take on " i am tired...i have a paper i have to write...i am tired of this ".......i still adore you, dan


----------



## tonynyc

Wagimawr said:


> Why not? Why not have a place where anyone can say anything they want without fear of retribution (save for where it violates internet or international law)? I can absolutely understand not wanting a place like that in a place you care about, though.



*I think if the cards are played just right ... this 'tiny' thread could have the makings of a 'Hyde Park jr.'....*


----------



## exile in thighville

say what you will about 4chan, but the format allows for those in need of tempering to crawl out and say their bid pretty quick before having their IP banned.

moderating is a thankless, payless job and we'd be doing them a _favor_ to ignore people who piss us off with their Flawed Ideology (onoz) and Bad Manners (on the interweb! crazy i know) instead of haranguing to get them chucked from the playground.


----------



## Wagimawr

I have a theory.

If people were allowed to say EVERYTHING they wanted, all but the most raging assholes would get burnt out on the novelty of it, start scaling themselves back, and then we'd all know exactly who was left to ostracize.


----------



## exile in thighville

when people stop being shocked by words the words stop shocking


----------



## mossystate

Wagimawr said:


> Why not? Why not have a place where anyone can say anything they want without fear of retribution...



If it had been set up that way...then...cool.


----------



## Spanky

Somehow, the death of Hyde PArk makes me think of this Beatles line (sorry Wag!)


_Eleanor Rigby died in the church and was buried along with her name
Nobody came
Father mckenzie wiping the dirt from his hands as he walks from the grave
No one was saved_


Yup, no one was saved. 

I checked. 

Nne.


----------



## NoWayOut

Oh, I thought it was just me.


----------



## Sandie S-R

Spanky said:


> Somehow, the death of Hyde PArk makes me think of this Beatles line (sorry Wag!)
> 
> 
> _Eleanor Rigby died in the church and was buried along with her name
> Nobody came
> Father mckenzie wiping the dirt from his hands as he walks from the grave
> No one was saved_
> 
> 
> Yup, no one was saved.
> 
> I checked.
> 
> Nne.





There weren't enough life boats, Spanky.


----------



## BarbBBW

hmmm some tensions here??
SPRINKLING SOME LOVE IN HERE!!

Hyde park is a necessity for DIMS i think. Gives everyone a chance to vent!


----------



## exile in thighville

that's what beating children is for*

mathias look^ so srs*this is not srs if u take this srsly and i get an infraction for childbeating u r inkurrekt


----------



## CleverBomb

Seth Warren said:


> Honestly, I think every board needs a place like Hyde Park. If you don't want to play rough, stay away. Simple, no? Without a defined "boxing ring," people are just going to take their crap to all the other forums and the mods don't need that extra work.


Agreed.

It may end up complicating the job the mods have to do on the other boards.
Ah well, not my call to make. 

-Rusty


----------



## Tooz

I'm glad it's gone. It was a waste of time. It created sides when creating sides did not need to be done.


----------



## NancyGirl74

As someone who tried her best to avoid HP like the plague...most of the time...I'll miss it. Nothing like a good debate. Still, if more people could have handled debating the topics without taking every comment and counter point so darn-tootin' personally maybe the hurt feelings issue would have been a non-issue. 

Maybe...

RIP Hyde Park


----------



## The Fez

This doesn't mean that biodiesel guy is going to start posting shitty political cartoons all over the forum does it?

*shudders*


----------



## exile in thighville

haha oh dear


----------



## TallFatSue

Tooz said:


> I'm glad it's gone. It was a waste of time. It created sides when creating sides did not need to be done.


Agreed. As an office manager, I get all the aggravation I can handle dealing with real people in the real world, and still somehow end the day with a smile. I don't need any aggravation in the virtual world. I avoid HP because it is so doggone divisive, and sometimes it gets out of hand. Late last year I avoided Dimensions and several other forums because the political discussions spilled out everywhere, particularly in large annoying avatars and signatures which overshadowed the actual posts.


CleverBomb said:


> It may end up complicating the job the mods have to do on the other boards.
> Ah well, not my call to make.


The Webmaster and the Moderators don't receive nearly enough praise. Frankly this is the best resource for fat people I've ever seen in my half-century on planet Earth, so they can do what they please with this forum. Conrad continues to move mountains for us in terms of bandwidth, servers and heaven knows what else. If they need to take certain actions to preserve their resources and their sanity, I support their decisions. There's much more to this operation than meets the eye, and far be it from me to second-guess them.

Three cheers for our Wonderful Webmaster and our Marvellous Moderators.


----------



## TraciJo67

Freestyle Fez said:


> This doesn't mean that biodiesel guy is going to start posting shitty political cartoons all over the forum does it?
> 
> *shudders*



RIP, Bio's cartoons. I shall miss you.


----------



## TraciJo67

Wagimawr said:


> Why not? Why not have a place where anyone can say anything they want without fear of retribution (save for where it violates internet or international law)? I can absolutely understand not wanting a place like that in a place you care about, though.



I agree with this. 

I can't imagine the hours of unpaid labor that went into moderating HP. And since the decision was obviously made to keep it moderated, I understand why it has outlived its usefulness. I don't blame the mods for not wanting to continue wading into our shitstorms. 

I am wondering, though, if any consideration was given to just letting it be unmoderated. Let the shit fly where it may, and coat who it may. Those averse to being splattered by it would eventually just stay away, anyway. Those who remain, obviously, don't mind the stench.


----------



## Keb

Hyde park was my favorite board. I come here for the resources, like the health board and the clothing board, but as a straight BBW with an interest in world events/politics, I feel like there's little left for me here without Hyde Park. I enjoyed the (usually) adult exchange of opinions, the chance to see how other people think, and the opportunity to talk about world events with an eye towards how they affect size issues--or don't. Hyde park is what kept me coming to Dimensions and made me feel like part of the community, since I'm not someone who wants to post seminude pics (sorry, but aside from the paysite board, there are at least three other boards that tend to have six or seven active pics threads going) and other than my personal experiences as a BBW has little to offer on the other boards. 

I get what people are saying about moderating and resources. It wasn't always the most pleasant place; once in a while I said something that hurt other people (without intending to) and sometimes I felt the need to pull myself out of a conversation entirely because I couldn't remain polite in it. But we're adults. We're supposed to have the judgement to be responsible for our own statements and to hold others responsible for theirs, while respecting one another's points of view. I loved having a place to debate with adults.

So I feel a bit abandoned without Hyde Park.


----------



## Ample Pie

Keb said:


> <snip>I enjoyed the (usually) adult exchange of opinions, the chance to see how other people think, and the opportunity to talk about world events with an eye towards how they affect size issues <snip>



There's always the Main Board for this kind of discussion. And, maybe without HP, these types of discussions will be a more regular thing on the Main Board. I know it isn't a replacement for HP (of course  ) but it's certainly hopeful.


----------



## SamanthaNY

Rebecca said:


> There's always the Main Board for this kind of discussion. And, maybe without HP, these types of discussions will be a more regular thing on the Main Board. I know it isn't a replacement for HP (of course  ) but it's certainly hopeful.



Right now, the main board is, by definition, for "Size/size acceptance issues", so technically, that's not the place for discussions on 'world' topics (unless they include size). There's the lounge, which has the definition of "For fun, games, and off-topic stuff", so it seems like that's the logical place.. I'm curious to see just how much HP overspill will be tolerated there.


----------



## Webmaster

I've thought about the whole HP situation a lot. It's been said that whenever people get together in a friendly community they will want to talk about whatever is on their minds. Apparently politics is on their minds a lot. Unfortunately, apart from offering depressing evidence that civil discussion seems a dying art, the real damage is that people who come here because of shared passions become enemies over different political views. That is a very bad and utterly undesirable thing. The anger and bitterness people develop over this is simply not worth it. So for now I pulled the switch.



TraciJo67 said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> I can't imagine the hours of unpaid labor that went into moderating HP. And since the decision was obviously made to keep it moderated, I understand why it has outlived its usefulness. I don't blame the mods for not wanting to continue wading into our shitstorms.
> 
> I am wondering, though, if any consideration was given to just letting it be unmoderated. Let the shit fly where it may, and coat who it may. Those averse to being splattered by it would eventually just stay away, anyway. Those who remain, obviously, don't mind the stench.


----------



## Ample Pie

SamanthaNY said:


> Right now, the main board is, by definition, for "Size/size acceptance issues", so technically, that's not the place for discussions on 'world' topics (unless they include size). There's the lounge, which has the definition of "For fun, games, and off-topic stuff", so it seems like that's the logical place.. I'm curious to see just how much HP overspill will be tolerated there.


note that I snipped off her comments at the bit about size issues so that they were all I included.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

There were indeed some lively and animated HP debates that demonstrated a remarkable capacity for civility and open-mindedness. If I were guessing I'd suspect it wasn't so much that those threads were the exception or even the high mod-width requirements? If I were Conrad or the Mod Squad the straw that stuck sideways in the camel's ass would have been the redundancy. As if Bill Maher replaced Bill Murray in Groundhog Day it was mostly the same shit over and over again! Take away guns, abortion and Israel ad nauseam and what was left anyway? Sure, there were a few sparkling moments and some admirably defended principles but too many single-issue bloaters simply clogged the drain, imo. I suspect moderating is never a joy but re-re-re-re-moderating the same pedantic monologues and antagonistic diatribes must have truly sucked? So many posts were nothing more than inflammatory barbs designed to incite boorish behavior from the opposition. Rather hollow victories and ultimately pyrrhic, it would seem? C'est la guerre.

A parting salute to those who spoke clearly and respectfully. Would that you had been more contagious. :bow: And thanks to the Mods who waded through the gloom of snark and childish mockery so that a few stalwarts could explore real issues. :bow::bow:

I offer this parting hymn* as a fitting farewell :doh: -

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1907543

*(First posted in Random Youtube Links by Jasminium :bow


----------



## Keb

Meh, there's repetition on the other boards, too. "Halp, my GF wants to lose weight!" "Show us <naked part>!" "<whatever> the person above you!", along with the more common questions about airlines, magazines, chairs, and so on.


----------



## Ample Pie

Keb said:


> Meh, there's repetition on the other boards, too. "Halp, my GF wants to lose weight!" "Show us <naked part>!" "<whatever> the person above you!", along with the more common questions about airlines, magazines, chairs, and so on.


and a lot of that does go on on the Weight Board and in the Lounge and, yes, on the Main Board, but the MB is a good place to deal with serious (even world-wide) issues that affect size acceptance and people of size. Maybe it's been under-used in that respect, because people tended to rely on HP for such things. I'm not saying that the big hot debates of HP need to move to the MB, but certainly the hot button issues dealing with size/size acceptance/people of size would fit in there well.


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar

TraciJo67 said:


> RIP, Bio's cartoons. I shall miss you.


[In Christopher Walken voice] Well, maybe you...



Webmaster said:


> I've thought about the whole HP situation a lot. It's been said that whenever people get together in a friendly community they will want to talk about whatever is on their minds. Apparently politics is on their minds a lot. Unfortunately, apart from offering depressing evidence that civil discussion seems a dying art, the real damage is that people who come here because of shared passions become enemies over different political views. That is a very bad and utterly undesirable thing. The anger and bitterness people develop over this is simply not worth it. So for now I pulled the switch.


My question is that there are other people on other forums who fling vitriol on topics other than politics; they spend numerous pages of discussion with back-and-forth arguments, involving a considerable amount of mod attention in deleting posts, blocking users, etc.. Is it the fact that a majority of HP posters who follow this mindset are unable to be effectively blocked, or that the moderators are just not wanting to expend the effort to do so? I would think if you banned 5-6 HP posters, topics might fall back in line (unless they re-register under a new alias and resume the 'fun'); it just has to do with which posters the mods feel are bannination-worthy. I got over the issue of free speech on here a long time ago, so we have to work with what we have.

My interest in HP was ROOTED in the civil discussions, regardless of the mudslingers interspersed. It frustrated me greatly that people would argue back and forth with little to back it up, or would quotemine from either solely conservative or liberal sources. I've seen high school debates with more maturity. I do agree with many that as of late the topics are political, and are there just to flame and cause a great degree of anger with the hot topic aspect. The slippery slope is that a discussion about anything can lead to fingers being pointed at one's political leanings, spirituality, culture or concepts of sexual in/equality, so you can't simply make a blanket 'no political discussions, evar.' decree.

I guess you can't have civil discussion without some level of underlying bitterness or immaturity. Someone is going to come to a podium and say "please people, let's discuss this like adults," and then someone will emit the electronic equivalent of a loud, obnoxious fart. Everyone loses focus and the discussion is derailed. The point is to ignore those troglodytes and try to move on with the topic at hand. I would say by and large on Dims the vitriol slinging is minimal compared to what I see out there on the Intarwebs, but everyone has their limits and lines that should not be crossed.


----------



## Spanky

Uh, TraciJo?? 

Could you PM me your four or five posts in this thread that were probably deleted by the mods already?? 

Also.......Al Franken. (just testing the waters) 


That is all.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

Keb said:


> Meh, there's repetition on the other boards, too. "Halp, my GF wants to lose weight!" "Show us <naked part>!" "<whatever> the person above you!", along with the more common questions about airlines, magazines, chairs, and so on.



Can't disagree with you there but it generally isn't the same peeps over and over. I get Conrad's point. Things in HP were becoming increasingly Balkanized and bleeding over into other Forums. I hope you'll find other places to play here, Keb. Your opinions were always well-spoken and civil, even when unpopular. Maybe you should volunteer to Mod if some version of HP is resurrected?


----------



## Keb

Meh, I'm a mod elsewhere, and don't really have time to add another site to my duties. I know just how draining it can be, and I appreciate the work of the mods here. 

Maybe there could be a place for politics with a different approach. Hyde park was "Bring your own soapbox", say what you please--at least on the surface. Perhaps a debate board or a world events board would be better.


----------



## NoWayOut

I personally don't miss Hyde Park a bit, as I felt I couldn't give an opinion without being slammed from 20 different directions. I like debates, as long as they're with civility. When I get personally attacked for being conservative, being Catholic, opposing gay marriage, etc., it wasn't something I wanted to deal with. 

In a debate, I like when people disagree with facts, not with venomous attacks, and too often, Hyde Park featured the latter.


----------



## rainyday

Freestyle Fez said:


> This doesn't mean that biodiesel guy is going to start posting shitty political cartoons all over the forum does it?
> 
> *shudders*



This kind of sums up what I disliked about Hyde Park and why I rarely ventured in. A longtime poster, who's met many Dimmers in person and contributed considerable non-political information to the forum, gets turned into a "that guy" we can all have a snicker over because he was in a political minority. Well, that and too often seeing people on both sides that I normally like behave like assholes.


----------



## mergirl

Hu. No hyde park. How we going to work out who we hate now


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

Yeah, actually, that is a good point. Reality is this, we don't really have to like everyone we encounter in life and that goes with this forum as well. It's kind of a good way to filter out who you really want to associate with and this has NOTHING to do with political views and what not and has everything to do with how some would react when angered. Like, damn, so, this person called me a fucking douchebag for disagreeing with them, I totally do not want to invite them to my birthday party.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Keb said:


> Hyde park was my favorite board. I come here for the resources, like the health board and the clothing board, but as a straight BBW with an interest in world events/politics, I feel like there's little left for me here without Hyde Park. I enjoyed the (usually) adult exchange of opinions, the chance to see how other people think, and the opportunity to talk about world events with an eye towards how they affect size issues--or don't. Hyde park is what kept me coming to Dimensions and made me feel like part of the community, since I'm not someone who wants to post seminude pics (sorry, but aside from the paysite board, there are at least three other boards that tend to have six or seven active pics threads going) and other than my personal experiences as a BBW has little to offer on the other boards.
> 
> I get what people are saying about moderating and resources. It wasn't always the most pleasant place; once in a while I said something that hurt other people (without intending to) and sometimes I felt the need to pull myself out of a conversation entirely because I couldn't remain polite in it. But we're adults. We're supposed to have the judgement to be responsible for our own statements and to hold others responsible for theirs, while respecting one another's points of view. I loved having a place to debate with adults.
> 
> So I feel a bit abandoned without Hyde Park.



I agree. Hyde Park was one of my favorite boards here. I steer a wide berth around the Lounge in the same way most people avoided HP. I'm not sure I can talk about, obsess about, complain about and analyze fat fat fta fat knock knock jokes atf fat forever and a day. Bring up something anew and a poster will provide a link to where it was already discussed ad neauseum back in 2005. It's going to be a bit duller around here without hyde park to discuss hot button topics.


----------



## TraciJo67

Spanky said:


> Uh, TraciJo??
> 
> Could you PM me your four or five posts in this thread that were probably deleted by the mods already??
> 
> Also.......Al Franken. (just testing the waters)
> 
> 
> That is all.



Spanks, if we were in Hyde Park right now, I would sooooooooo fling poo in your general direction. 




mergirl said:


> Hu. No hyde park. How we going to work out who we hate now



It's always a safe bet to lay your hate on me, Mer. Aim a mildly snarky remark in my general direction. Wind me up, and watch me react with righteous indignation at the underlying dig. Respond that you were only joking and GAH! ... why am I so SENSITIVE? I'll tell you that you're passive-aggressive, you'll tell me that I'm nothing but a crusty old bitter & mean jerk, we'll both get warnings and ... you'll get moved up about 50 notches on Ye Olde Rep Scale 

On topic: I hate to see Hyde Park go. Yet I do understand that given current board rules (i.e., all things moderated), it is a huge, gaping wound of a time suck for our current mods to have to deal with. 

That said, while I may occasionally get irritated with something said, my feelings about the people who participated there haven't changed. I still like who I like, dislike the online persona of others, etc blah. Some of the people whom I like & respect the most are those whom I've often had vitriolic discussions with in the past. I may not always like someone's political views, or even understand them (far less, want to) but I always respect intelligence and verve and passionate beliefs. Case in point: Keb & I couldn't be more diametrically opposed in some of our viewpoints, but I genuinely like her as a person, and have always enjoyed her participation in the Park. Damn.

Ok, people. Cats in party hats. Who haz them?


----------



## FaxMachine1234

Spanky said:


> Uh, TraciJo??
> 
> Could you PM me your four or five posts in this thread that were probably deleted by the mods already??
> 
> Also.......Al Franken. (just testing the waters)
> 
> 
> That is all.



...Obama Bush Limbaugh! Haha alright, enough of that.




BothGunsBlazing said:


> Yeah, actually, that is a good point. Reality is this, we don't really have to like everyone we encounter in life and that goes with this forum as well. It's kind of a good way to filter out who you really want to associate with and this has NOTHING to do with political views and what not and has everything to do with how some would react when angered. Like, damn, so, this person called me a fucking douchebag for disagreeing with them, I totally do not want to invite them to my birthday party.



Yeah, this. On the other hand, I've usually found this made me sadder to learn these things about people (and myself) then happier, so maybe it's better this way. 

Really, in retrospect the only thing I didn't like about the closing of the board is that there was no advance notice at all. Couldn't there have been some note saying "We're shutting off Hyde Park effective tommorrow, get all your ranting out of your system"? Probably wouldn't have needed this long thread then...


----------



## Spanky

I try to steer clear of political discussions with friends or acquaintances in IRL due to the divisiveness or alienation it can cause. If a discussion does ensue, I have to admit in person, I will try to be very respectful and accommodating. 

I have said it once and will say it again. This is crap for a communication medium our kids kids will laugh at in a few generations. Typing opinion and counter-opinion while trying to understand the nuance. Forming the right reasons, backing it up with endless links and articles or plenty of pictures is just madness. 

Horse and buggy anyone? 

I really though it interesting to read the opinions of others. Others not like me, from different countries, different religions and different races. Hyde Park could be much more if we used our eyes more and our fingers less. 

But then IRL it is with our voices and ears. 


NEWS ITEM: TraciJo is LELLOW. Really lellow.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

LillyBBBW said:


> I agree. Hyde Park was one of my favorite boards here. I steer a wide berth around the Lounge in the same way most people avoided HP. I'm not sure I can talk about, obsess about, complain about and analyze fat fat fta fat knock knock jokes atf fat forever and a day. Bring up something anew and a poster will provide a link to where it was already discussed ad neauseum back in 2005. It's going to be a bit duller around here without hyde park to discuss hot button topics.



Yeah, I'm the same; I've tried posting in the Lounge once or twice but it just didn't seem very stimulating. Hyde Park at least dealt with current events.


----------



## JoyJoy

As much as Hyde Park raised my BP at times, it was beneficial to me because it helped me see other sides and expand on my views, and become more grounded politically and in other areas. I'm sure it has been a pain in the ass to the moderators, but I'm very disappointed and a little angry to see it go, especially in the way it was done. I'm sure life will go on, though.


----------



## thatgirl08

I, for one, am very glad to have Hyde Park gone. It was too much bickering and not enough discussion. Reality is, there are plently of forums out there where you can discuss current events and politics. You don't have to do it on a size acceptance site.


----------



## Laura2008

Keb said:


> Hyde park was my favorite board. I come here for the resources, like the health board and the clothing board, but as a straight BBW with an interest in world events/politics, I feel like there's little left for me here without Hyde Park. I enjoyed the (usually) adult exchange of opinions, the chance to see how other people think, and the opportunity to talk about world events with an eye towards how they affect size issues--or don't. Hyde park is what kept me coming to Dimensions and made me feel like part of the community, since I'm not someone who wants to post seminude pics (sorry, but aside from the paysite board, there are at least three other boards that tend to have six or seven active pics threads going) and other than my personal experiences as a BBW has little to offer on the other boards.
> 
> I get what people are saying about moderating and resources. It wasn't always the most pleasant place; once in a while I said something that hurt other people (without intending to) and sometimes I felt the need to pull myself out of a conversation entirely because I couldn't remain polite in it. But we're adults. We're supposed to have the judgement to be responsible for our own statements and to hold others responsible for theirs, while respecting one another's points of view. I loved having a place to debate with adults.
> 
> So I feel a bit abandoned without Hyde Park.




Great post. You summed up my feeling much more eloquently then I could of. I don't post often but when I do it's mostly in HP. I enjoy reading the other sections but politics has always been my passion. I also liked the fact that there was a lot of world politics being discussed not just American issues. As an American, it gave me a wider view of the world.


----------



## mergirl

thatgirl08 said:


> I, for one, am very glad to have Hyde Park gone. It was too much bickering and not enough discussion. Reality is, there are plently of forums out there where you can discuss current events and politics. You don't have to do it on a size acceptance site.


Yeah, but i like talking about events and politics with fatties and Fa's!!  Cause they are just better people ya know.


----------



## Sandie S-R

Freestyle Fez said:


> This doesn't mean that biodiesel guy is going to start posting shitty political cartoons all over the forum does it?
> 
> *shudders*



No, that won't be tolerated.


----------



## mergirl

Sandie S-R said:


> No, that won't be tolerated.


What about cartoons of pigs tied to a chair being force fed cakes by a machine? They are fun!! 
I even saw one this very day and i dont want them to stop frankly!


----------



## Ample Pie

I think Fat and Size Acceptance are inherently political issues. That said, I think the MB is a great place for that area of discussion (sorry for being repetitive, just wanted added clarity). For those who say they don't want "fat fat fat all the time non-stop fat" I totally sympathize, but this is a Size Acceptance/Fat-Admiration-centered board--so that's going to be its main focus. And like "fat fat fat all the time fat" probably isn't the center of your world or every conversation, it's probably not healthy for Dimensions to be either.


----------



## Ned Sonntag

Keb said:


> Hyde park was my favorite board. I come here for the resources, like the health board and the clothing board, but as a straight BBW with an interest in world events/politics, I feel like there's little left for me here without Hyde Park. I enjoyed the (usually) adult exchange of opinions, the chance to see how other people think, and the opportunity to talk about world events with an eye towards how they affect size issues--or don't. Hyde park is what kept me coming to Dimensions and made me feel like part of the community, since I'm not someone who wants to post seminude pics (sorry, but aside from the paysite board, there are at least three other boards that tend to have six or seven active pics threads going) and other than my personal experiences as a BBW has little to offer on the other boards.
> 
> I get what people are saying about moderating and resources. It wasn't always the most pleasant place; once in a while I said something that hurt other people (without intending to) and sometimes I felt the need to pull myself out of a conversation entirely because I couldn't remain polite in it. But we're adults. We're supposed to have the judgement to be responsible for our own statements and to hold others responsible for theirs, while respecting one another's points of view. I loved having a place to debate with adults.
> 
> So I feel a bit abandoned without Hyde Park.


 I wasn't feeling real comfortable speculating going to Orlando and running into folks whose worldview horrified me. That already happened recently. So the shutdown was a good preemptive move for that eventuality... it's better not to know, or to try to forget.


----------



## Sandie S-R

TraciJo67 said:


> I agree with this.
> 
> I can't imagine the hours of unpaid labor that went into moderating HP. And since the decision was obviously made to keep it moderated, I understand why it has outlived its usefulness. I don't blame the mods for not wanting to continue wading into our shitstorms.
> 
> I am wondering, though, if any consideration was given to just letting it be unmoderated. Let the shit fly where it may, and coat who it may. Those averse to being splattered by it would eventually just stay away, anyway. Those who remain, obviously, don't mind the stench.



Very good point TJ. The hours we put into HP were unbelievable. And yes, as a Mod it is easy to get burned out on HP. I managed it for 4 years, which is amazing to me. I quit moderating there when the past election was over, and haven't had a single regret. 

We were all burned out there. And yes, we certainly discussed just letting it be "unmoderated". We had actually all stepped way back from moderating - we had had enough of reprimanding people for their nasty behavior, and then having to deal with the nasty PMs from those who were warned or infracted. It was never the posters fault that they couldn't get along with others. It was always us big bad moderators that were either "bias" in our moderating, or we were "censoring" their rights to personally attack their fellow posters.  We all pretty much had had our fill of being cussed out and insulted for just attempting to keep the discourse civil.

And if you notice, as we stepped back and moderated less, HP continued to get worse; nastier and more filled with vitriol. And unfortunately the stench was overwhelming. Sometimes enough is just enough. 

So hopefully people (the HP posters) have learned something from this. But pardon my cynicism if I say that I doubt that they have.


----------



## Sandie S-R

SamanthaNY said:


> Right now, the main board is, by definition, for "Size/size acceptance issues", so technically, that's not the place for discussions on 'world' topics (unless they include size). There's the lounge, which has the definition of "For fun, games, and off-topic stuff", so it seems like that's the logical place.. *I'm curious to see just how much HP overspill will be tolerated there.*



Likely not much.


----------



## mergirl

and what of the HP moderators? What will they do now? we must start work on the HP mod retirement village right away!!


----------



## Sandie S-R

mergirl said:


> and what of the HP moderators? What will they do now? we must start work on the HP mod retirement village right away!!





Funny thing, with more new boards here, and surprise we actually have real lives away from Dims - trust me, we're not ready to retire as yet.


----------



## mergirl

Sandie S-R said:


> Funny thing, with more new boards here, and surprise we actually have real lives away from Dims - trust me, we're not ready to retire as yet.


Ok.. Lay down your tools everyone..the hp mod retirement village is no longer needed! yay! 
I dont like that Mods have lives outside Dims .. In my brain they live in pods in the sky and throw lightning bolts at people. Please dont tell me that this is not the case!!!


----------



## Spanky

mergirl said:


> Ok.. Lay down your tools everyone..the hp mod retirement village is no longer needed! yay!
> I dont like that Mods have lives outside Dims .. In my brain they live in pods in the sky and throw lightning bolts at people. Please dont tell me that this is not the case!!!



Day-um, girl! I was starting on the "right" wing. The other side was going to be the "West Wing". 

-50 rep points for being a little instigator. 
+10 rep points for being Scottish.

+5 points for getting Lilly to send you Rootbeer.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Spanky said:


> Day-um, girl! I was starting on the "right" wing. The other side was going to be the "West Wing".
> 
> -50 rep points for being a little instigator.
> +10 rep points for being Scottish.
> 
> +5 points for getting Lilly to send you Rootbeer.



Ah it wasn't free though. In return she sent me Urn Bru and candy which I never properly thanked her for. -50 points for me.


----------



## mergirl

Urn Bru? This is a fizzy drink made of dead people's remains..
I did send Lilly Irn Bru however! lmao...Though, if you say it in an American accent it does kinna sound like 'Urn broo'.


----------



## LillyBBBW

mergirl said:


> Urn Bru? This is a fizzy drink made of dead people's remains..
> I did send Lilly Irn Bru however! lmao...Though, if you say it in an American accent it does kinna sound like 'Urn broo'.



You mean it WASN'T made from dead people's remains?!?


----------



## mergirl

Spanky said:


> Day-um, girl! I was starting on the "right" wing. The other side was going to be the "West Wing".
> 
> -50 rep points for being a little instigator.
> +10 rep points for being Scottish.
> 
> +5 points for getting Lilly to send you Rootbeer.


So i have -35 points! Damnit..how do i get myself back into positive numbers?? 
And, what exactly do these points mean? Do i get air miles with them?


----------



## mergirl

LillyBBBW said:


> You mean it WASN'T made from dead people's remains?!?


Well, this is a closely guarded Scottish secret. If i told you i'd have to kill you...and turn you into Bru!!


----------



## Spanky

LillyBBBW said:


> Ah it wasn't free though. In return she sent me Urn Bru and candy which I never properly thanked her for. -50 points for me.



Yeah, but you're Lilly. LILLY!

+50 points just for that. 




/end schoomzy-time


----------



## Tina

Heh. Some of us will be making jewelry, Mer.

I believe we'll find something to occupy our time...


----------



## Spanky

mergirl said:


> So i have -35 points! Damnit..how do i get myself back into positive numbers??
> And, what exactly do these points mean? Do i get air miles with them?



Never ask Spanky how to get into positive points. 

There are ladies with pics all over Dims trying to get out of their personal debt spending betting with Spanky. 

Just take out a point loan. Then more. Your grandchildren can pay for it when you have long gone the way of Urn Bru. I mean Irn Bru. Bud Light. Whatever. All tastes the same.


----------



## Miss Vickie

LillyBBBW said:


> I agree. Hyde Park was one of my favorite boards here. I steer a wide berth around the Lounge in the same way most people avoided HP. I'm not sure I can talk about, obsess about, complain about and analyze fat fat fta fat knock knock jokes atf fat forever and a day. Bring up something anew and a poster will provide a link to where it was already discussed ad neauseum back in 2005. It's going to be a bit duller around here without hyde park to discuss hot button topics.



I agree. I'm bummed, but I certainly don't want to over-tax the mods. I just wish there could have been another way and that perhaps we could have been involved in the solution. It seems like a lot of people really enjoyed it and learned a lot from (some of!) the conversations. 

Oh well. Now I'll have to have political discussions with my radically conservative brother in law.


----------



## JoyJoy

I'd like to know what a girl has to do to earn enough points for Irn Bru. And...who exactly is the point-keeper? Spanky? If so, I think I'm in trouble.


----------



## Spanky

Hyde Park CHAT?? 

Multiple discussions, super confusing, no moderating needed. Here now, gone in a flash. Instead of a slow motion train wreck, it is immediate train wreck. Great for those Gen Y-ers. 

Discuss. On chat. 



- 25 points on Spanky for that idea above. 

+5 points for JoyJoy for acknowledging she WOULD be in trouble if I handed out the points. wait.a.minute.:doh:

+1000 points for all of the mods


----------



## mergirl

Spanky said:


> Yeah, but you're Lilly. LILLY!
> 
> +50 points just for that.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> /end schoomzy-time



So if i changed my name to Lilly i would have 15 points? Hence usurping real Lilly who would have 0 point? This game is hard spanky!! 



Tina said:


> Heh. Some of us will be making jewelry, Mer.
> 
> I believe we'll find something to occupy our time...



Phew! I am glad..i was getting sad thinking of the wee hp mods staring into space answering phones that wern't ringing and huddling together in the blackened ashes of a fallen forum apocolypse!! ....
hu..You know that feeling when you think.."hmm i went too far".. well i just got it! 



JoyJoy said:


> I'd like to know what a girl has to do to earn enough points for Irn Bru. And...who exactly is the point-keeper? Spanky? If so, I think I'm in trouble.


Yes, how many points does it take to get Irn Bru?? When you get enough, i shall send you some! Give me a Pm when this happens with your stalker details.. erm *cough* sorry, i mean snail mail details.. and Bru shall sail its way to you. :bow:


----------



## JoyJoy

mergirl said:


> Yes, how many points does it take to get Irn Bru?? When you get enough, i shall send you some! Give me a Pm when this happens with your stalker details.. erm *cough* sorry, i mean snail mail details.. and Bru shall sail its way to you. :bow:


 I have a better idea. In June, meet me at the Texas Scottish Festival and we can share an Irn Bru and haggis. Deal?


Yes, yes, I like that idea immensely.


----------



## mergirl

JoyJoy said:


> I have a better idea. In June, meet me at the Texas Scottish Festival and we can share an Irn Bru and haggis. Deal?
> 
> 
> Yes, yes, I like that idea immensely.


Oh!! Will your Scottish meet up have haggis and Bru?? How amazing!! Not sure i can make it to Texas in June but i shall be there is spirit anyway! Hmm..i should try to arrange a scottish texas festival for the same time!! We could drink cactus juice and erm..dig for oil..and eat ribs??? lmao


----------



## Suze

bah-bye cruel board.


----------



## Tina

mergirl said:


> Phew! I am glad..i was getting sad thinking of the wee hp mods staring into space answering phones that wern't ringing and huddling together in the blackened ashes of a fallen forum apocolypse!! ....
> hu..You know that feeling when you think.."hmm i went too far".. well i just got it!



Well, you know, if boredom sets in for us there's always sex... Not with each other, though. And _you_ go too far, Mer? Prim, demure, quiet woman that you are, perish the thought!


----------



## Zandoz

I apologize for what ever part I had in bringing this about. Sorry folks.


----------



## JoyJoy

mergirl said:


> Oh!! Will your Scottish meet up have haggis and Bru?? How amazing!! Not sure i can make it to Texas in June but i shall be there is spirit anyway! Hmm..i should try to arrange a scottish texas festival for the same time!! We could drink cactus juice and erm..dig for oil..and eat ribs??? lmao


Yes! Irn Bru, haggis, and even neeps and tatties! I'll be in heaven for a couple of days, in my element.  I'll raise a glass to you, my dear.


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar

Zandoz said:


> I apologize for what ever part I had in bringing this about. Sorry folks.


Good sir, you were a voice of reason amidst an ocean of shite and vitriol. I was the one in the political threads going "where is Zandoz' calm demeanor and shouting down the monster shouters by showing them their own idiocy and hypocrisy?"

It's a problem that I feel was much bigger than any one individual (well, we can still poke fun at a couple of the lil' buggers). Don't you go changin'...


----------



## CleverBomb

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> Good sir, you were a voice of reason amidst an ocean of shite and vitriol. I was the one in the political threads going "where is Zandoz' calm demeanor and shouting down the monster shouters by showing them their own idiocy and hypocrisy?"
> 
> It's a problem that I feel was much bigger than any one individual (well, we can still poke fun at a couple of the lil' buggers). Don't you go changin'...


Agreed.

-Rusty


----------



## Mathias

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> Good sir, you were a voice of reason amidst an ocean of shite and vitriol. I was the one in the political threads going "where is Zandoz' calm demeanor and shouting down the monster shouters by showing them their own idiocy and hypocrisy?"
> 
> It's a problem that I feel was much bigger than any one individual (well, we can still poke fun at a couple of the lil' buggers). Don't you go changin'...



Quoted for truth.


----------



## exile in thighville

Sandie S-R said:


> Very good point TJ. The hours we put into HP were unbelievable. And yes, as a Mod it is easy to get burned out on HP. I managed it for 4 years, which is amazing to me. I quit moderating there when the past election was over, and haven't had a single regret.
> 
> We were all burned out there. And yes, we certainly discussed just letting it be "unmoderated". We had actually all stepped way back from moderating - we had had enough of reprimanding people for their nasty behavior, and then having to deal with the nasty PMs from those who were warned or infracted. It was never the posters fault that they couldn't get along with others. It was always us big bad moderators that were either "bias" in our moderating, or we were "censoring" their rights to personally attack their fellow posters.



with all due respect, why? what resulted in the decision to moderate so heavily? the actual sticky for hyde park read: "this board won't be moderated as heavily as the other boards," and yet it seemed to be on anal-retentive overload to the point where it couldn't even distinguish what deserved an infraction or not. why were the posters expected to "get along"? we're all adults, people shouldn't enter an argument if they can't stand the consequences. making threats or sexually harassing someone or doing something illegal is one thing, but trying to filter out on-the-fence quibbles from pages and pages of obnoxiousness is an exercise in futility. i guess deleting the forum is one way to deal with that.

and please, there are always mods are more biased than others.


----------



## mergirl

JoyJoy said:


> Yes! Irn Bru, haggis, and even neeps and tatties! I'll be in heaven for a couple of days, in my element.  I'll raise a glass to you, my dear.


NEEPS!! Brilliant! Ive never heard an American call turnip 'Neeps' before! You are braw hen!!


----------



## TraciJo67

exile in thighville said:


> and please, there are always mods are more biased than others.



Yeah. The formula is this:

If you've been infracted, that mod is biased.


----------



## exile in thighville

TraciJo67 said:


> Yeah. The formula is this:
> 
> If you've been infracted, that mod is biased.



except i've been infracted by mods who aren't?


----------



## TraciJo67

exile in thighville said:


> except i've been infracted by mods who aren't?



Really? Damn. The formula worked for me, right up until this very moment.

I'm now questioning everything I've ever just assumed to be true. Thanks.


----------



## Risible

Spanky said:


> Hyde Park CHAT??
> 
> Multiple discussions, super confusing, no moderating needed. Here now, gone in a flash. Instead of a slow motion train wreck, it is immediate train wreck. Great for those Gen Y-ers.
> 
> Discuss. On chat.
> 
> 
> 
> - 25 points on Spanky for that idea above.
> 
> +5 points for JoyJoy for acknowledging she WOULD be in trouble if I handed out the points. wait.a.minute.:doh:
> 
> +1000 points for all of the mods



I'll take that thousand - where do I cash it in? A dollar a point, right? 

Baby needs new rawhide chew toy! *Don't* disappoint me, Spanky!


----------



## Mini

Heh, interesting. I guess those pansy liberals will learn not to take stuff for granted.


----------



## Sandie S-R

Miss Vickie said:


> I agree. I'm bummed, but I certainly don't want to over-tax the mods. I just wish there could have been another way and that perhaps we could have been involved in the solution. It seems like a lot of people really enjoyed it and learned a lot from (some of!) the conversations.
> 
> Oh well. Now I'll have to have political discussions with my radically conservative brother in law.



The thing is Vickie, the HP participants have had plenty of opportunity to be a part of the solution. Instead, they have chosen to be rude, mean and petty with their fellow posters. We've been asking HP posters for over 4 years to be civil and not hurl personal attacks and vile comments at each other, to no avail.

Sometimes you don't realize what you have until you've lost it.


----------



## Sandie S-R

mergirl said:


> Oh!! Will your Scottish meet up have haggis and Bru?? How amazing!! Not sure i can make it to Texas in June but i shall be there is spirit anyway! Hmm..i should try to arrange a scottish texas festival for the same time!! We could drink cactus juice and erm..dig for oil..and eat ribs??? lmao



Our *San Diego Scottish Highland games* are here California the same weekend that Joy's festival is being held in Texas. So looks like we'll all be celebrating! 

Out here we drink fine Glenfiddich, Dewers & Newcastle. Cactus juice? What the hell kinda Scottish drink is that?? 

The grandson will likely be playing drums with the Wicked Tinkers again, so we are excited! Wishing ye all a fine celebration of our Scottish Heritage! 

Slainte!


----------



## mergirl

Sandie S-R said:


> Our *San Diego Scottish Highland games* are here California the same weekend that Joy's festival is being held in Texas. So looks like we'll all be celebrating!
> 
> Out here we drink fine Glenfiddich, Dewers & Newcastle. Cactus juice? What the hell kinda Scottish drink is that??
> 
> The grandson will likely be playing with drums with the Wicked Tinkers again, so we are excited! Wishing ye all a fine celebration of our Scottish Heritage!
> 
> Slainte!


ahhh Lol. i was thinking if i had a 'texas' day over here thats what i would drink! Cactus juice, that is..Thats great all you guys are having a scottish day!! 
Glenfiddich i can understand but 'Newcastle' is in England.. You need to drink some scottish beers. I was going to say 'tennants' beer.. but its not great.. there are some great 'ales' though...the names escape me now though.
Hope you have a lovely time.


----------



## Sandie S-R

exile in thighville said:


> with all due respect, why? what resulted in the decision to moderate so heavily? the actual sticky for hyde park read: "this board won't be moderated as heavily as the other boards," and yet it seemed to be on anal-retentive overload to the point where it couldn't even distinguish what deserved an infraction or not. why were the posters expected to "get along"? we're all adults, people shouldn't enter an argument if they can't stand the consequences. making threats or sexually harassing someone or doing something illegal is one thing, but trying to filter out on-the-fence quibbles from pages and pages of obnoxiousness is an exercise in futility. i guess deleting the forum is one way to deal with that.
> 
> and please, there are always mods are more biased than others.



You know Dan, I really like you (honestly), but you can be so effing obtuse at times. 

Never, was there ever a decision made to "heavily moderate" HP by any of us. What you need to understand is Conrad made the rules. He wanted people to be able to discuss their differences in a civil manner. It was our job as moderators to enforce those rules. So when a debate or conversation went from civil disagreement to nasty shite slinging, we stepped in. And in all honesty, we only stepped in once it got really bad, and there were some reported posts. So please, don't for one second think that we were "over-moderating". We let a lot of little crap slide because we just got sick and tired of adults acting worse than little children. 

And I agree with your statement, "...people shouldn't enter an argument if they can't stand the consequences...". But seldom did that ever happen in HP. It was a rare thing when a warned or infracted poster would actually accept responsibility for their bad behavior in HP. It was *always* someone else's fault. 

See you guys aren't privy to all the things that go on behind the scenes where moderating is concerned. You have no idea how many nasty notes we would get back from posters after we asked them to tone things down a bit, or please be more respectful of your fellow posters. 

We are not Pollyannas and never expected that everyone would "get along", but people can disagree with each other on issues, without tearing down the others' character. And unfortunately, the latter was happening a lot more than the former. 

HP was becoming more of a negative drain on this community as a whole, than it was contributing to it in a positive manner. And when that happens, then sometimes changes are made that people don't like.


----------



## Sandie S-R

missaf said:


> Glenfiddich in San Diego, here we come! My son is chomping at the bit to wear his kilt again. Of course, he won't be drinking, but he'll be partying!



He can eat meat pies and shortbread and Scotch eggs. Plus, the local Boy Scouts host a "Mini Games" set up for kids so he can practice tossing the caber, and other athletics. ;o)


----------



## Miss Vickie

Sandie S-R said:


> The thing is Vickie, the HP participants have had plenty of opportunity to be a part of the solution. Instead, they have chosen to be rude, mean and petty with their fellow posters. We've been asking HP posters for over 4 years to be civil and not hurl personal attacks and vile comments at each other, to no avail.
> 
> Sometimes you don't realize what you have until you've lost it.



True, but there were lots of us who _weren't_ doing that. There were lots of us who are long time members at Dimensions, who participate in most of the other forums on the site, and who used the board appropriately to discuss political or hot button issues in an appropriate way.

Why are we punished along with yabo's who couldn't get along? And there are other forums on the site who also have had their fair share of trollish behavior (like the Weight Board, as a for instance). And yet those forums haven't been taken away.

Yes, there have been complaints, both by the moderators and by the participants about some people who wouldn't discuss things without being vituperative and hurling insults. But it was never really clear to me, as a member, that it was so bad that the forum was going to be taken down. In fact it seems like things had been really tame, of late. (Unless there were huge threads that I missed). I guess I'm just wondering what it was that caused this to happen. Was it a timing thing, or what? Obviously since this is Conrad's site, whatever he says, goes. But I think it's going to ultimately harm the site in the long run because either people will spend less time here, or they will post politically sensitive, hot button topics on other boards. Sure, of course they'll be deleted but isn't that kind of moderation and time suck what you're trying to avoid? At least at HP it was all kept in one spot and those who were of a sensitive disposition just rightfully stayed away. With this way, I fear the fall out will land on every thread, in every forum.


----------



## exile in thighville

Sandie S-R said:


> You know Dan, I really like you (honestly), but you can be so effing obtuse at times.
> 
> Never, was there ever a decision made to "heavily moderate" HP by any of us. What you need to understand is Conrad made the rules. He wanted people to be able to discuss their differences in a civil manner. It was our job as moderators to enforce those rules. So when a debate or conversation went from civil disagreement to nasty shite slinging, we stepped in. And in all honesty, we only stepped in once it got really bad, and there were some reported posts. So please, don't for one second think that we were "over-moderating". We let a lot of little crap slide because we just got sick and tired of adults acting worse than little children.
> 
> And I agree with your statement, "...people shouldn't enter an argument if they can't stand the consequences...". But seldom did that ever happen in HP. It was a rare thing when a warned or infracted poster would actually accept responsibility for their bad behavior in HP. It was *always* someone else's fault.
> 
> See you guys aren't privy to all the things that go on behind the scenes where moderating is concerned. You have no idea how many nasty notes we would get back from posters after we asked them to tone things down a bit, or please be more respectful of your fellow posters.
> 
> We are not Pollyannas and never expected that everyone would "get along", but people can disagree with each other on issues, without tearing down the others' character. And unfortunately, the latter was happening a lot more than the former.
> 
> HP was becoming more of a negative drain on this community as a whole, than it was contributing to it in a positive manner. And when that happens, then sometimes changes are made that people don't like.



i only used the term "heavily moderate" because you guys were saying how much extra work hyde park was for you. and i ultimately agree, if people want to stick out their tongue and then run and hide behind mods, that's pretty much the opposite of constructive debates.


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar

Miss Vickie said:


> True, but there were lots of us who _weren't_ doing that. There were lots of us who are long time members at Dimensions, who participate in most of the other forums on the site, and who used the board appropriately to discuss political or hot button issues in an appropriate way.
> 
> Why are we punished along with yabo's who couldn't get along? And there are other forums on the site who also have had their fair share of trollish behavior (like the Weight Board, as a for instance). And yet those forums haven't been taken away.


It's the same rationale that feeds what I call "this is why we can't have nice things." Most of us pay our credit card, phone and power bills diligently, we have applicable car insurance. We pay our taxes. But a few people steal credit cards, don't pay their credit bills, steal the shit out of cell phones (I've been dealing with ID theft related to drug dealer cell accounts for 10 years and I assure you it's easier for AT&T to raise the rates for the rest of us and write it off than to prosecute the bad guys). People defraud insurance companies with outrageous lawsuits and forged accidents. 

Since the establishment would go blind trying to tear into things and cut out the negative elements (or in some cases they're just too damn lazy or understaffed), they assume a broad-spectrum punishment is to be suffered by all to cover their cost and trouble. The assholes win, and the honorable public pays the price for it.

I was curious to the mods as to whether petitions were submitted by the 'regular HP people' to block/ban/restrict the postings of some who were responsible for the mud slinging. I mean, in Real Life (tm) when someone in our city or neighborhood does something naughty, we take up a petition against their activities. Although some people could use a good public stoning, I think on Dims it's not heavily pushed or is just too much of a headache (more time the mods have to spend on something they're not being paid for) to manage.

I won't even go into mod bias on here, which I thankfully have not been the subject of.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Miss Vickie said:


> True, but there were lots of us who _weren't_ doing that. There were lots of us who are long time members at Dimensions, who participate in most of the other forums on the site, and who used the board appropriately to discuss political or hot button issues in an appropriate way.
> 
> Why are we punished along with yabo's who couldn't get along? And there are other forums on the site who also have had their fair share of trollish behavior (like the Weight Board, as a for instance). And yet those forums haven't been taken away.
> 
> Yes, there have been complaints, both by the moderators and by the participants about some people who wouldn't discuss things without being vituperative and hurling insults. But it was never really clear to me, as a member, that it was so bad that the forum was going to be taken down. In fact it seems like things had been really tame, of late. (Unless there were huge threads that I missed). I guess I'm just wondering what it was that caused this to happen. Was it a timing thing, or what? Obviously since this is Conrad's site, whatever he says, goes. But I think it's going to ultimately harm the site in the long run because either people will spend less time here, or they will post politically sensitive, hot button topics on other boards. Sure, of course they'll be deleted but isn't that kind of moderation and time suck what you're trying to avoid? At least at HP it was all kept in one spot and those who were of a sensitive disposition just rightfully stayed away. With this way, I fear the fall out will land on every thread, in every forum.



It all goes back to these words made famous by my mother whenever we saw grafiti on park benches or trash left in the rose garden: "You can't have shit around here!" There's always someone who takes advantage and thinks their dinky little statements *must* be made at any expense. And that is eventually how it winds up. Everybody winds up losing out due to the few who need to act out repeatedly.


----------



## Miss Vickie

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> It's the same rationale that feeds what I call "this is why we can't have nice things."



Exactly. I guess I feel... scolded for lack of a better word.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

It's so bizarre seeing these two parallel conversations going on at the same time here and having absolutely nothing to do with each other.

And I'm sensing that soon the mods will be making us former Hyde Park regulars wear signs and walk down the street while people throw eggs at us, since apparently we behaved so awful that they keep mentioning this view just about every time one of them chimes in here on the subject. And oddly, it doesn't seem like any of the mods who were in charge of policing the board ever posted in it very much (maybe Sandie), so maybe that's why they didn't see the point in it.


----------



## AnnMarie

Oh. My. God. 

View attachment funny-pictures-your-cat-does-not-want-to-explain-any-more.jpg


----------



## exile in thighville

Ekim said:


> It's so bizarre seeing these two parallel conversations going on at the same time here and having absolutely nothing to do with each other.
> 
> And I'm sensing that soon the mods will be making us former Hyde Park regulars wear signs and walk down the street while people throw eggs at us, since apparently we behaved so awful that they keep mentioning this view just about every time one of them chimes in here on the subject. And oddly, it doesn't seem like any of the mods who were in charge of policing the board ever posted in it very much (maybe Sandie), so maybe that's why they didn't see the point in it.



let it go man


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Ekim said:


> It's so bizarre seeing these two parallel conversations going on at the same time here and having absolutely nothing to do with each other.
> 
> And I'm sensing that soon the mods will be making us former Hyde Park regulars wear signs and walk down the street while people throw eggs at us, since apparently we behaved so awful that they keep mentioning this view just about every time one of them chimes in here on the subject. A*nd oddly, it doesn't seem like any of the mods who were in charge of policing the board ever posted in it very much (maybe Sandie), so maybe that's why they didn't see the point in it.*


Let me ask you something. (This is hypothetical, NOT based on yours or anyone else's actions!) 

Say you're very strongly republican (I know, I know! It's just an example) and you acted like a total douchebag, and got an infraction for it. Now suppose the mod who issued it posted very strong opinions on the complete opposite end of the political spectrum from yours allll the time. Wouldn't you be wondering if that played any part in how they moderated you? If you were an incredibly immature person, wouldn't you run around screaming about biased mods and how they'd done you wrong?

Yeah. Now you understand.


----------



## AnnMarie

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Yeah. Now you understand.




Pfftt. Have you been reading? 

I admire your plucky optimism though, it's cute!


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Hahahaha.  

I'm pathologically optimistic. It's a fault.


----------



## CleverBomb

Ekim said:


> It's so bizarre seeing these two parallel conversations going on at the same time here and having absolutely nothing to do with each other.
> 
> And I'm sensing that soon the mods will be making us former Hyde Park regulars wear signs and walk down the street while people throw eggs at us, since apparently we behaved so awful that they keep mentioning this view just about every time one of them chimes in here on the subject. And oddly, it doesn't seem like any of the mods who were in charge of policing the board ever posted in it very much (maybe Sandie), so maybe that's why they didn't see the point in it.


They're JUST like yahoos!*

-Rusty
*ok, not really.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

Damn, I always push these things one step too far. In lolcat parlance...


----------



## exile in thighville

lolcats are really scraping the bottom of the barrel these days


----------



## Keb

TraciJo67 said:


> Yeah. The formula is this:
> 
> If you've been infracted, that mod is biased.



Yup, that always seems to be the case when I've had to call someone on breaking the rules elsewhere. Pretty universal.


----------



## 1300 Class

No more Dims-political-wank-syndrome (DPWS) anymore..



-> an end to it now!


----------



## Tooz

exile in thighville said:


> lolcats are really scraping the bottom of the barrel these days



They are. I hate the new version of the catspeak.


----------



## Keb

The more I think about it, though, the more I think that a "World Events" or "News" board would be a good thing to have--someplace where we could discuss many of the topics that were worthwhile in Hyde Park. There really isn't a place for that now in DIMs, except maybe the Lounge...and I don't think the Loungites would be too happy to see stuff about N. Korean missiles or whatever in their Happy Space.

There was vitriol, but there were also threads that were really good reading, and really interesting exchanges of thought. It would be nice to be able to throw out the bathwater and keep the baby, wouldn't it?


----------



## FaxMachine1234

Tooz said:


> They are. I hate the new version of the catspeak.



What was the old version? Fewer "Z"s?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Wagimawr said:


> Why not? Why not have a place where anyone can say anything they want without fear of retribution (save for where it violates internet or international law)? I can absolutely understand not wanting a place like that in a place you care about, though.





Wagimawr said:


> I have a theory.
> 
> If people were allowed to say EVERYTHING they wanted, all but the most raging assholes would get burnt out on the novelty of it, start scaling themselves back, and then we'd all know exactly who was left to ostracize.



You obviously haven't spent much time in a place called Yahoo chess lounges......:blink:



mergirl said:


> What about cartoons of pigs tied to a chair being force fed cakes by a machine? They are fun!!
> I even saw one this very day and i dont want them to stop frankly!



I peez un u 4 dat


----------



## tonynyc

Keb said:


> There really isn't a place for that now in DIMs, except maybe the Lounge...and I don't think the Loungites would be too happy to see stuff about N. Korean missiles or whatever in their Happy Space.



*Well Keb: That all depends on how one decides to deliver "The Missile" er "Message"....*






*Dr. Strangelove: Major "King Kong" (Slim Pickens) riding the bomb to oblivion*


----------



## Tina

Ekim said:


> And oddly, it doesn't seem like any of the mods who were in charge of policing the board ever posted in it very much (maybe Sandie), so maybe that's why they didn't see the point in it.



Ha! You have no idea. I won't even go into it, but you are reaching on that one.

Yeah, those LOL cats are a real PITA now. They used to be cute. What happened?


----------



## TotallyReal

My very own "Texas Republican Governor Is Textbook Definition Of America-Hating Traitor" will forever remain the last replied-to thread in Hyde Park, frozen in time like a beautiful flower encased in carbonite.


----------



## TotallyReal

JUST A LIL SOMETHING TO SHOW HOW MUCH HYDE PARK MEAN TO ME. I WILL NEVER FORGET THIS DAY. GOD BLESS 

View attachment Untitled-1.jpg


----------



## Les Toil

I'm assuming there was one particular thread that brought the board down. Can someone either link me to that thread or re-enact some of the more heated high points using smiley icons?


----------



## exile in thighville

Ekim said:


> What was the old version? Fewer "Z"s?



they were simpler


----------



## 1300 Class

I think its ironic that the people who rarely posted in HP are the first and the loudest to condemn it as a pit of depravity and degregation...


----------



## NancyGirl74

Nevermind

........


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

Australian Lord said:


> I think its ironic that the people who rarely posted in HP are the first and the loudest to condemn it as a pit of depravity and degregation...



yeah, that could go for pretty much anything. 

YOU PEOPLE WHO NEVER SHOT ANYONE IN THE FACE AND CONDEMN IT SHOULD PROBABLY TRY IT FIRST BEFORE YOU TALK SHIT, ALRIGHT?

best.comparison.ever.


----------



## LillyBBBW

BothGunsBlazing said:


> yeah, that could go for pretty much anything.
> 
> YOU PEOPLE WHO NEVER SHOT ANYONE IN THE FACE AND CONDEMN IT SHOULD PROBABLY TRY IT FIRST BEFORE YOU TALK SHIT, ALRIGHT?
> 
> best.comparison.ever.



Not entirely. More like: 

ALL THOSE GAY PEOPLE BEING GAY DOWN AT THE GAY BAR ON GAYHEAD STREET. SO TERRRRRRIBLE FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD MORALE. I'M GLAD IT BURNED DOWN AND NOW THE GAYS CAN'T POLLUTE OUR HAPPY HARMONY.

I'm with Australian Lord on this and I think it's a first! What's it to you?


----------



## Tooz

Ekim said:


> What was the old version? Fewer "Z"s?



That, and more correct spelling. Overall funnier.




A classic.


----------



## BothGunsBlazing

LillyBBBW said:


> Not entirely. More like:
> 
> ALL THOSE GAY PEOPLE BEING GAY DOWN AT THE GAY BAR ON GAYHEAD STREET. SO TERRRRRRIBLE FOR THE NEIGHBORHOOD MORALE. I'M GLAD IT BURNED DOWN AND NOW THE GAYS CAN'T POLLUTE OUR HAPPY HARMONY.
> 
> I'm with Australian Lord on this and I think it's a first! What's it to you?



You do realize that this post actually made me check to see if the GLBTQ board still existed, right?

It also made me really miss Dravenhawk.


----------



## Tooz




----------



## LillyBBBW

BothGunsBlazing said:


> You do realize that this post actually made me check to see if the GLBTQ board still existed, right?
> 
> It also made me really miss Dravenhawk.



*removes hat* Yes, poor departed Dravenhawk. I think HP was the only place he's visited of late. I suppose this means he's gone for good, another reason for some among us to squee with decadent joy.


----------



## mergirl

BothGunsBlazing said:


> You do realize that this post actually made me check to see if the GLBTQ board still existed, right?
> 
> It also made me really miss Dravenhawk.


Dravenhawk!! Where will he go??  People, gather your tools together to build the homophobe retirement village.


----------



## mergirl

LillyBBBW said:


> *removes hat* Yes, poor departed Dravenhawk. I think HP was the only place he's visited of late. I suppose this means he's gone for good, another reason for some among us to squee with decadent joy.


i dunno. Life can be pretty boring when you have nothing to rage against. Its like when there is not at least one exciting/controvercial thread going on in Dims it seems a bit flat somehow. 
Anyway.. what about those closet Fa's hu? Maan..they do my shitting head in!!!


----------



## Ernest Nagel

I enjoy a spirited debate on just about any subject but the participants should understand the difference between _dialogue_ and _diatribe_. The learning curve on that distinction looked flat as a board, at best, to me. Just sayin'. 

I spent some time there and can't say it seemed to do me or anyone else any net good. There were some valiant and inspiring voices of conscience and reason from time to time but they were mainly drowned out by people who never read or understood their posts. My only concern for the void is 'where will new ideas go to die now?'  

There aren't enough Mods in the world to enforce Roberts Rules or any other civilizing boundaries* when enough determined fuckwits conspire to shout down their opposition and clog the thread with ad hominem invectives. The downside is I think we have to concede the bullies won, as they often do. 

*(my suggestion would be all posts must be in "E-Prime Language". Yeah, right, that'd work! ROFL :doh


----------



## Ned Sonntag

Australian Lord said:


> I think its ironic that the people who rarely posted in HP are the first and the loudest to condemn it as a pit of depravity and degregation...


I posted there all the time and thought it was a horror.:doh:


----------



## LillyBBBW

mergirl said:


> i dunno. Life can be pretty boring when you have nothing to rage against. Its like when there is not at least one exciting/controvercial thread going on in Dims it seems a bit flat somehow.
> Anyway.. what about those closet Fa's hu? Maan..they do my shitting head in!!!



I wonder if he ever found his sexually aggressive super sized gay hating love queen? He never spoke much on that again so its anyone's guess.

Oh and GRRRR, those closet FAs!


----------



## mergirl

LillyBBBW said:


> I wonder if he ever found his sexually aggressive super sized gay hating love queen? He never spoke much on that again so its anyone's guess.
> 
> Oh and GRRRR, those closet FAs!


See, my theory is that the most homophobic people are usually deeply repressed homo's themselves. So hopefully he has come to his senses and found a love 'queen'. He is more than welcome on the lgbt boards.. Nothing better than a lapsed homophobe! 
If we still had hyde park i would ask him about this matter, i am going to miss our bitter sweet exchanges. That song "Can't live, if living is without you" Just came into my head in a dramatic way there.. I almost had to do a musical power grab fist!! (does anyone know what i actually mean by that??)


----------



## LillyBBBW

mergirl said:


> See, my theory is that the most homophobic people are usually deeply repressed homo's themselves. So hopefully he has come to his senses and found a love 'queen'. He is more than welcome on the lgbt boards.. Nothing better than a lapsed homophobe!
> If we still had hyde park i would ask him about this matter, i am going to miss our bitter sweet exchanges. That song "Can't live, if living is without you" Just came into my head in a dramatic way there.. I almost had to do a musical power grab fist!! (does anyone know what i actually mean by that??)



HAHA!! The Elvis/James Brown maneuver!  With or without the split? That would be something to see, and worthy to be performed for the likes of Dravenhawk. I really am going to miss him. Seriously.


----------



## mergirl

LillyBBBW said:


> HAHA!! The Elvis/James Brown maneuver!  With or without the split? .


Haha.. exactly it!! hmmm split optional!


----------



## Observer

ernestnagel said:


> *There were some valiant and inspiring voices of conscience and reason from time to time but they were mainly drowned out by people who never read or understood their posts.* My only concern for the void is 'where will new ideas go to die now?'
> 
> There aren't enough Mods in the world to enforce Roberts Rules or any other civilizing boundaries* when enough determined ****wits conspire to shout down their opposition and clog the thread with ad hominem invectives. *The downside is I think we have to concede the bullies won, as they often do*.



Don't be too quick to conclude that just because the bullies indeed won a battle that they won the war.

That's what the liberals thought when they smashed Goldwater in 1964 and the Neocons thought when they enthroned George W. But then came Reagan and more recently Obama.

I was one who gained numerous rep points as one of the "voices of conscience and reason from time to time." Funny thing, I drew very few (if any) attacks for my posts because I stuck to issues not personalities and vitriol.

My heart bleeds not for Hyde Park, a forum whose dual nature was a contradiction from its inception. But I share your "concern for the void" and desire to answer the question of 'where will new ideas go to die now?' 

Its too early to reply to that now - but there are at least a few who are biding their time, going about building elsewhere, and sorry, I must disagree that there "aren't enough Mods in the world" to do the job in the face of determined bullies. That's what the bullies of two different stripes thought before they met Reagan and Obama. 

Yesterday I replied to one PM from a community member about a possible answer to all this and cc'd Conrad. He understands the dilemma but the wounds are presently too fresh. I'd be interested in corresponding (*privately *for now) with others who would like to see a forum for ideas and dialogue to fill the void that now exists. 

And as for the bullies, sorry - this invitation and dialogue for now is between people of good will apart from political persuasion, not yet the general community. But those who wish to comment publicly can do so here.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

The one thing that I thought was kinda cool about Hyde Park was that no matter how mad at each other people got, no matter how many names they called each other, fat wasn't one of them...


----------



## SamanthaNY

I bet the 'bullies' list is widely varied... with a good number of them actually considering themselves "people of good will".


----------



## mergirl

SamanthaNY said:


> I bet the 'bullies' list is widely varied... with a good number of them actually considering themselves "people of good will".


I was actually thinking this..who are the bullies? Because two people thinking they are standing up for something they really believe in could be doing so from totally different perspectives and so clash. A lot of people who thought they were just being right could have actually been pounding people into the ground. I think HP sort of gave people a free reign to scrap with each other, no holds barred. In many cases this is cathartic and for the benifit of those who liked political debates. Though if you see something that interests you politically, you are going to have a look, then if you see someone shitting all over what you belive you are going to fight back. I think this is why it was difficult to contain Hyde park. Even if you didnt want to be involved, sometimes you just had to be.


----------



## LillyBBBW

mergirl said:


> I was actually thinking this..who are the bullies? Because two people thinking they are standing up for something they really believe in could be doing so from totally different perspectives and so clash. A lot of people who thought they were just being right could have actually been pounding people into the ground. I think HP sort of gave people a free reign to scrap with each other, no holds barred. In many cases this is cathartic and for the benifit of those who liked political debates. Though if you see something that interests you politically, you are going to have a look, then if you see someone shitting all over what you belive you are going to fight back. I think this is why it was difficult to contain Hyde park. Even if you didnt want to be involved, sometimes you just had to be.



I have a black belt in Bully but I rarely used it. There were times when I could simply post the word NO and near got called a gang leader.


----------



## mergirl

LillyBBBW said:


> I have a black belt in Bully but I rarely used it. There were times when I could simply post the word NO and near got called a gang leader.


'Black belt in bully' i love the illiteration! I on the other hand have a 'scarlet scarf in scaredy-cat!'


----------



## Jane

Ella Bella said:


> The one thing that I thought was kinda cool about Hyde Park was that no matter how mad at each other people got, no matter how many names they called each other, fat wasn't one of them...



Damn this "out of rep for Ella" world.


----------



## mossystate

Jane said:


> Damn this "out of rep for Ella" world.



Her post said a lot. I repped her for both of us.


----------



## mergirl

mossystate said:


> Her post said a lot. I repped her for both of us.


I was just thinking this. It was one of those comments where you go "yeah"..then you think more and go "YEEEAH!!!"


----------



## mergirl

Jane said:


> Damn this "out of rep for Ella" world.


I repped her too, just to make up for it.


----------



## mossystate

mergirl said:


> I was just thinking this. It was one of those comments where you go "yeah"..then you think more and go "YEEEAH!!!"



And then you get so excited about it, you pee your pants!!!!


oh


I said too much.:blush:


----------



## mergirl

mossystate said:


> And then you get so excited about it, you pee your pants!!!!
> 
> 
> oh
> 
> 
> I said too much.:blush:


Exactly! And everyone is slow clapping..faster and faster they get until they are in a cheering frenzy..banging their feet on the tables.. while you sit in a pool of your own piss!  Gah! Excitement-Not always a good thing.


----------



## Spanky

Risible said:


> I'll take that thousand - where do I cash it in? A dollar a point, right?
> 
> Baby needs new rawhide chew toy! *Don't* disappoint me, Spanky!



It is like airline miles. Redeemable on non-black-out dates. 

February 30
September 31
and 
April 32

And the +1000 was for ALL THE MODS. You guys have to share. 

Yer such a taker.


----------



## SamanthaNY

It's too convenient to say the bullies or bad apples are responsible for Hyde Park being the vortex of swill that it was, while the "regular, good people of will" are blameless victims. C'mon. I find it incredibly offensive that some are trying to separate the members and labeling each group as good or bad. It's a faulty assumption to believe that people can have reasonable, civil, consistently calm, one-at-a-time debates about subjects which not only inspire passion, but are affecting the very lives of those involved. Whenever you get a bunch of people together, there will be spirited discussion - and the more vital the subject matter, the more spirited the discussion. And yelling. And fights. 

I didn't like Hyde Park - but it was true to itself. The people who regularly used it were, for the most part, passionate about what they were saying. Labeling some of them as 'bullies' should mean that they got moderated and/or banned - NOT that they were responsible for taking a board down (!!). Marking those members now, and indicating that they are the ones who made HP fail AND that they're not invited to the new sandbox is childish, schoolyard nonsense. Much like 'he's too fat to play dodgeball'. If that's what you want, then create two Hyde Parks. One for the star-bellied Sneetches and one for bullies. Hey - new board to decide who's a star-bellied Sneetch!! 

If someone envisions Hyde to be a mahogany-lined library where soft-voiced people sit quietly tapping the arms of their leather wingback chairs as their colleagues take turns speaking pronouncements through the cigar haze... then you're delusional. HP will never live up to that fantasy. Nor should it. Deal with what it is and moderate the bullies or don't have it at all.


----------



## Risible

Spanky said:


> It is like airline miles. Redeemable on non-black-out dates.
> 
> February 30
> September 31
> and
> April 32
> 
> And the +1000 was for ALL THE MODS. You guys have to share.
> 
> Yer such a taker.



But wait .... I've already spent it on chocolate.


----------



## Carrie

Interestingly, this was today's quote of the day on my iGoogle homepage: 



> If a man is offered a fact which goes against his instincts, he will scrutinize it closely, and unless the evidence is overwhelming, he will refuse to believe it. If, on the other hand, he is offered something which affords a reason for acting in accordance to his instincts, he will accept it even on the slightest evidence. The origin of myths is explained in this way. - Bertrand Russell




I'd say the origin of a lot of people's beliefs and resulting arguments may be explained in this way, as well.

Also? It's peanut butter jelly time.


----------



## Miss Vickie

Carrie said:


> Interestingly, this was today's quote of the day on my iGoogle homepage:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'd say the origin of a lot of people's beliefs and resulting arguments may be explained in this way, as well.
> 
> Also? It's peanut butter jelly time.



Well said, Carrie, m'dear.

Oh, and do you have strawberry jam? 'Cause it's my favorite-est kind of jam. Oh. And can I have a glass of milk with mine? And can you cut it in triangles, please?

Thanks. :eat2:


----------



## Carrie

Miss Vickie said:


> Well said, Carrie, m'dear.
> 
> Oh, and do you have strawberry jam? 'Cause it's my favorite-est kind of jam. Oh. And can I have a glass of milk with mine? And can you cut it in triangles, please?
> 
> Thanks. :eat2:


Jesus, Miss V, and I thought _I_ was high maintenance. 

But yes. Yes, you can, and yes, I will. :happy:


----------



## TraciJo67

I think that you're being marked into the "bully" column, Sammie 



SamanthaNY said:


> It's too convenient to say the bullies or bad apples are responsible for Hyde Park being the vortex of swill that it was, while the "regular, good people of will" are blameless victims. C'mon. I find it incredibly offensive that some are trying to separate the members and labeling each group as good or bad. It's a faulty assumption to believe that people can have reasonable, civil, consistently calm, one-at-a-time debates about subjects which not only inspire passion, but are affecting the very lives of those involved. Whenever you get a bunch of people together, there will be spirited discussion - and the more vital the subject matter, the more spirited the discussion. And yelling. And fights.
> 
> I didn't like Hyde Park - but it was true to itself. The people who regularly used it were, for the most part, passionate about what they were saying. Labeling some of them as 'bullies' should mean that they got moderated and/or banned - NOT that they were responsible for taking a board down (!!). Marking those members now, and indicating that they are the ones who made HP fail AND that they're not invited to the new sandbox is childish, schoolyard nonsense. Much like 'he's too fat to play dodgeball'. If that's what you want, then create two Hyde Parks. One for the star-bellied Sneetches and one for bullies. Hey - new board to decide who's a star-bellied Sneetch!!
> 
> If someone envisions Hyde to be a mahogany-lined library where soft-voiced people sit quietly tapping the arms of their leather wingback chairs as their colleagues take turns speaking pronouncements through the cigar haze... then you're delusional. HP will never live up to that fantasy. Nor should it. Deal with what it is and moderate the bullies or don't have it at all.


----------



## Miss Vickie

Carrie said:


> Jesus, Miss V, and I thought _I_ was high maintenance.
> 
> But yes. Yes, you can, and yes, I will. :happy:





Um..... do you have whole wheat, by any chance? 'Cause I really need whole wheat.


----------



## Jane

mossystate said:


> And then you get so excited about it, you pee your pants!!!!
> 
> 
> oh
> 
> 
> I said too much.:blush:




Evidently I damned near get excited a LOT!!


----------



## Mathias

I'm wondering what the more passionate posters in Hyde Park have to say about this.


----------



## Spanky

Mathias said:


> I'm wondering what the more passionate posters in Hyde Park have to say about this.



*MORE CHOCOLATE!!!!!*


....but that is just my opinion.


----------



## mossystate

Jane said:


> Evidently I damned near get excited a LOT!!



* chuckle *
---

Now, back to what matters. No pit stops, people.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

If you don't allow pit stops, I think that's only going to exacerbate the problem.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

mossystate said:


> And then you get so excited about it, you pee your pants!!!!
> 
> 
> oh
> 
> 
> I said too much.:blush:




I think I like the idea of making someone pee their pants way more than I do the rep!


----------



## TraciJo67

OK, second attempt. I wasn't trying to dismiss what you've said here, or make light of it. I was actually making a point, albeit in a joking manner (and do understand that it could have been seen as an attempt to hijack with ill-placed humor, btw). 

I'm also offended by your post, Observer. First of all, there's a far nicer way of conveying what you said, rather than lumping people into categories. You're a moderator, and that means that your opinion holds some weight (as you are also tasked with enforcing the rules). The "bullies" didn't overthrown Hyde Park. Rather, Conrad made what appears to be an executive decision to shut it down. I disagree with what he's done, and how he's chosen to do so, but I'm also aware that my opinion means exactly squat to him. And, I'm also sympathetic to the fact that since the forum had to be moderated (Conrad's rules), it was a huge, mostly unfair, unpleasant time suck for those who were tasked with moderating it. I can understand all too well what Sandie highlighted, because the truth is, I've been one of the ill-mannered participants who questioned her judgment in the past. What, me infracted? When that *other* guy said this and that and the other thing? You're ... unfair!! I can only imagine how crappy it must be to get this _all the time_. We're all adults here. Unfortunately, we don't always act that way. My choice would have been different -- just to make Hyde Park an unmoderated free-for-all. Nobody gets to cry foul or bully or unfair. If you participate there, you know in advance that the other primat - uh, participants, will probably sling poo at you eventually. It's the nature of the beast. Political discussions rarely remain unheated. I doubt very much that you could put together a group of people who would always -- or even mostly -- remain civil when discussing the relative merits of donkey vs. elephant or gun control and abortion = good or evil. Unless, of course, you put together a group of like-minded people. Then it's not a forum for debate. It's simply a group of self-and-other congratulatory back patters.

The only thing that I disagree with below is the idea of getting rid of the bullies. Let 'em stay. Unmoderated. Let other people see them (and us) for the jackasses we can be and sometimes are. The people who take things too personally will, eventually, weed themselves out. 

I hate to see HP gone. It filled a need in me, to engage in discourse (civil and ... otherwise) with like-minded people. That is to say, people who may have vehemently disagreed with me, but were able to formulate reasoned and eloquent responses that, at times, made me stop and think about my own preconceived notions. 



SamanthaNY said:


> It's too convenient to say the bullies or bad apples are responsible for Hyde Park being the vortex of swill that it was, while the "regular, good people of will" are blameless victims. C'mon. I find it incredibly offensive that some are trying to separate the members and labeling each group as good or bad. It's a faulty assumption to believe that people can have reasonable, civil, consistently calm, one-at-a-time debates about subjects which not only inspire passion, but are affecting the very lives of those involved. Whenever you get a bunch of people together, there will be spirited discussion - and the more vital the subject matter, the more spirited the discussion. And yelling. And fights.
> 
> I didn't like Hyde Park - but it was true to itself. The people who regularly used it were, for the most part, passionate about what they were saying. Labeling some of them as 'bullies' should mean that they got moderated and/or banned - NOT that they were responsible for taking a board down (!!). Marking those members now, and indicating that they are the ones who made HP fail AND that they're not invited to the new sandbox is childish, schoolyard nonsense. Much like 'he's too fat to play dodgeball'. If that's what you want, then create two Hyde Parks. One for the star-bellied Sneetches and one for bullies. Hey - new board to decide who's a star-bellied Sneetch!!
> 
> If someone envisions Hyde to be a mahogany-lined library where soft-voiced people sit quietly tapping the arms of their leather wingback chairs as their colleagues take turns speaking pronouncements through the cigar haze... then you're delusional. HP will never live up to that fantasy. Nor should it. Deal with what it is and moderate the bullies or don't have it at all.


----------



## exile in thighville

SamanthaNY said:


> It's too convenient to say the bullies or bad apples are responsible for Hyde Park being the vortex of swill that it was, while the "regular, good people of will" are blameless victims. C'mon. I find it incredibly offensive that some are trying to separate the members and labeling each group as good or bad. It's a faulty assumption to believe that people can have reasonable, civil, consistently calm, one-at-a-time debates about subjects which not only inspire passion, but are affecting the very lives of those involved. Whenever you get a bunch of people together, there will be spirited discussion - and the more vital the subject matter, the more spirited the discussion. And yelling. And fights.
> 
> I didn't like Hyde Park - but it was true to itself. The people who regularly used it were, for the most part, passionate about what they were saying. Labeling some of them as 'bullies' should mean that they got moderated and/or banned - NOT that they were responsible for taking a board down (!!). Marking those members now, and indicating that they are the ones who made HP fail AND that they're not invited to the new sandbox is childish, schoolyard nonsense. Much like 'he's too fat to play dodgeball'. If that's what you want, then create two Hyde Parks. One for the star-bellied Sneetches and one for bullies. Hey - new board to decide who's a star-bellied Sneetch!!
> 
> If someone envisions Hyde to be a mahogany-lined library where soft-voiced people sit quietly tapping the arms of their leather wingback chairs as their colleagues take turns speaking pronouncements through the cigar haze... then you're delusional. HP will never live up to that fantasy. Nor should it. Deal with what it is and moderate the bullies or don't have it at all.



this is a way more eloquent way of saying what i was trying to.


----------



## Sandie S-R

Spanky said:


> It is like airline miles. Redeemable on non-black-out dates.
> 
> February 30
> September 31
> and
> April 32
> 
> And the +1000 was for ALL THE MODS. You guys have to share.
> 
> Yer such a taker.



OK, that just sucks. There were only 3 of us that actually moderated HP, so why should we share the 1000 with all the mods. 

 <----- pouting


----------



## Sandie S-R

Mathias said:


> I'm wondering what the more passionate posters in Hyde Park have to say about this.



I'm guessing they are too busy going thru the "DTs" (HP withdrawal) right now to say too much of anything.


----------



## LillyBBBW

If the mods or whatever say they got rid of hp because they got tired of mopping up poo then I think it's fair to say that the poo tossers hell bent on tossing poo were the reason hyde park is no more. It's not meant to be offensive or divisive, it's just saying what is so. I will say though that to exist in hp you would hardly notice any outward sign of dismay with poo tossers. I think it's because in order to exact justice you would have to toss some of the wheat with the so called chaff. It's hard to bounce out riff raff when someone with Rep advantage is slapping around down there in the gutter with them doing the same thing. To administer justice you would have had to get rid of both which would cause further upset and cries of foul. The demise of the board seemed almost inevitable.


----------



## exile in thighville

Sandie S-R said:


> I'm guessing they are too busy going thru the "DTs" (HP withdrawal) right now to say too much of anything.



it is however kind of bad for mods to be making fun of people who do miss something they enjoyed posting in as part of their daily routine and clearly _could_ stand the heat


----------



## Ernest Nagel

You may be a bully if:


You feel its OK to attack someone personally simply because they disagree with you.

You reflexively insult or dismiss sources/evidence that fail to support your point.

You assume you can make generalizations about someones intelligence based only on party affiliation.

You assume being in the majority implies some special access to truth.

You assume being in the minority implies some special access to truth.

You think compromise is for sissies. 

You think misquoting is OK so long as you know it represents what they were really thinking.

You believe changing your mind or equivocating is a sign of inferior intellect.

You feel its unnecessary to reply to or even read the posts of people who disagree with you. 

You take comfort in rep you get for snarking and belittling others.

And last but not least, you think a sincere apology is only what 's owed to _you_.
I could go on and obviously *JMO* but this is what Im talking about. Maybe none of the above killed HP _per se_ but it didnt make it a better place, either. Im interested in ideas and conversations that make an affirmative difference in the world. I think a lot of other people were, too. Those who believed winning is the only thing seem to have, if not more staying power, thicker skins. Accepting certain simple rules of civility is a basic standard of respect. Operating where such rules were routinely ignored would reflect, imo, a loss of self-respect. 

I definitely would not return to HP as it was and I'm frankly a little embarrassed that I stayed as long as I did. Just being "honest".


----------



## Zandoz

Ella Bella said:


> The one thing that I thought was kinda cool about Hyde Park was that no matter how mad at each other people got, no matter how many names they called each other, fat wasn't one of them...




Yup, the only place I knew where my opinion was not automatically discounted because I was fat.


----------



## Mathias

Spanky said:


> *MORE CHOCOLATE!!!!!*
> 
> 
> ....but that is just my opinion.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

missaf said:


> I personally feel we need to discuss more self/size acceptance and fat culture than world views here anyway. There's plenty of political boards you can go read for a fix.




I like what Dimensions is, and I like what it does. Talking about only fat acceptance is great for someone who's just learning about it. Its great for a newbie who doesn't like their body too much, to come into a place that's a virtual fat heaven, but I've been involved in the size acceptance community for going on 13 years now. Its old hat to me, I want to talk about more than just being a fat woman, because I AM more than just a fat woman.


----------



## mossystate

exile in thighville said:


> it is however kind of bad for mods to be making fun of people who do miss something they enjoyed posting in as part of their daily routine and clearly _could_ stand the heat



I hate that I agree with you.

But, as I have always felt this, I will pretend I vocalized it.


----------



## Keb

Zandoz said:


> Yup, the only place I knew where my opinion was not automatically discounted because I was fat.





Ella Bella said:


> I like what Dimensions is, and I like what it does. Talking about only fat acceptance is great for someone who's just learning about it. Its great for a newbie who doesn't like their body too much, to come into a place that's a virtual fat heaven, but I've been involved in the size acceptance community for going on 13 years now. Its old hat to me, I want to talk about more than just being a fat woman, because I AM more than just a fat woman.



And also a comment that was made to me via rep that has had me thinking...honestly, and quite bluntly, the effect of Hyde Park being gone makes me feel unwelcome here unless I'm willing to strip for a camera. I know that's not the message that was intended, but it's what I'm feeling. 

Also, there is not enough rep to go around for this thread. Love you guys.


----------



## JoyJoy

TraciJo67 said:


> I hate to see HP gone. It filled a need in me, to engage in discourse (civil and ... otherwise) with like-minded people. That is to say, people who may have vehemently disagreed with me, but were able to formulate reasoned and eloquent responses that, at times, made me stop and think about my own preconceived notions.



This is basically how I feel. Yes, I know there are other places to go for political discussion. What made it different here is that there are people here whom I have known for awhile, whose opinions I trust and I'm interested in. Having HP here made Dimensions as a whole, for me, seem like a well-rounded package (no pun) where I could come and learn about everything, with people I care about. With HP gone, it feels less complete.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Again, my personal opinion, not speaking as a mod...

I'm sure a good number of people here like to talk about, say, monster trucks. Or NASCAR. Or environmental issues. Should we have boards specifically dedicated to those things? No. Why? Because it's not related, directly or indirectly to size acceptance/fat people, and (what I perceive to be - only my opinion) the purpose of Dimensions. Now, what if we tried a board on such a topic and it became so turbulent it was a serious problem? I'm sorry, I just don't see why this is such an issue. Hyde Park was always the sore thumb in the "what's wrong with this picture" puzzle. Every other board relates to size/fat, with the exception of the lounge, which is like an off-topic playground so that we _can_ talk about things other than fat and be sociable with one another. I don't think we need TWO off-topic playgrounds when one of them is consistently occupied by a gang of roving bullies. Sure, the mods can ban people who get too bad, but there will ALWAYS be another person cropping up in their place. Always. If you've tried repeatedly to clean up the playground and make it safe, but there are always more law-breakers coming back in, closing it so that innocent bystanders can't get hurt is the last resort.


----------



## Sugar

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Again, my personal opinion, not speaking as a mod...
> 
> I'm sure a good number of people here like to talk about, say, monster trucks. Or NASCAR. Or environmental issues. Should we have boards specifically dedicated to those things? No. Why? Because it's not related, directly or indirectly to size acceptance/fat people, and (what I perceive to be - only my opinion) the purpose of Dimensions. Now, what if we tried a board on such a topic and it became so turbulent it was a serious problem? I'm sorry, I just don't see why this is such an issue. Hyde Park was always the sore thumb in the "what's wrong with this picture" puzzle. Every other board relates to size/fat, with the exception of the lounge, which is like an off-topic playground so that we _can_ talk about things other than fat and be sociable with one another. I don't think we need TWO off-topic playgrounds when one of them is consistently occupied by a gang of roving bullies. Sure, the mods can ban people who get too bad, but there will ALWAYS be another person cropping up in their place. Always. If you've tried repeatedly to clean up the playground and make it safe, but there are always more law-breakers coming back in, closing it so that innocent bystanders can't get hurt is the last resort.



It's an issue because there are people who really enjoyed it who didn't cause trouble. Let them mourn for cripes sake.


----------



## JoyJoy

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Again, my personal opinion, not speaking as a mod...
> 
> I'm sure a good number of people here like to talk about, say, monster trucks. Or NASCAR. Or environmental issues. Should we have boards specifically dedicated to those things? No. Why? Because it's not related, directly or indirectly to size acceptance/fat people, and (what I perceive to be - only my opinion) the purpose of Dimensions. Now, what if we tried a board on such a topic and it became so turbulent it was a serious problem? I'm sorry, I just don't see why this is such an issue. Hyde Park was always the sore thumb in the "what's wrong with this picture" puzzle. Every other board relates to size/fat, with the exception of the lounge, which is like an off-topic playground so that we _can_ talk about things other than fat and be sociable with one another. I don't think we need TWO off-topic playgrounds when one of them is consistently occupied by a gang of roving bullies. Sure, the mods can ban people who get too bad, but there will ALWAYS be another person cropping up in their place. Always. If you've tried repeatedly to clean up the playground and make it safe, but there are always more law-breakers coming back in, closing it so that innocent bystanders can't get hurt is the last resort.


 It's been awhile since I've been to one, but...when you go to bashes that are put on for fat people and admirers, does everyone sit around and talk about being fat and issues surrounding it? Dim is a lot like that - a big hang-out for fat people and people who love them. It doesn't have to ALL be about FAT, though, does it? Really?


----------



## Steve

Here's another playground. It even looks like Dimensions. 

http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/


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## BigBeautifulMe

JoyJoy said:


> It's been awhile since I've been to one, but...when you go to bashes that are put on for fat people and admirers, does everyone sit around and talk about being fat and issues surrounding it? Dim is a lot like that - a big hang-out for fat people and people who love them. It doesn't have to ALL be about FAT, though, does it? Really?


Like I said, that's what the Lounge is for. OT discussion.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Again, my personal opinion, not speaking as a mod...
> 
> I'm sure a good number of people here like to talk about, say, monster trucks. Or NASCAR. Or environmental issues. Should we have boards specifically dedicated to those things? No. Why? Because it's not related, directly or indirectly to size acceptance/fat people, and (what I perceive to be - only my opinion) the purpose of Dimensions. Now, what if we tried a board on such a topic and it became so turbulent it was a serious problem? I'm sorry, I just don't see why this is such an issue. Hyde Park was always the sore thumb in the "what's wrong with this picture" puzzle. Every other board relates to size/fat, with the exception of the lounge, which is like an off-topic playground so that we _can_ talk about things other than fat and be sociable with one another. I don't think we need TWO off-topic playgrounds when one of them is consistently occupied by a gang of roving bullies. Sure, the mods can ban people who get too bad, but there will ALWAYS be another person cropping up in their place. Always. If you've tried repeatedly to clean up the playground and make it safe, but there are always more law-breakers coming back in, closing it so that innocent bystanders can't get hurt is the last resort.




I didn't participate in HP as much as some of the other posters here but when I did participate, I knew that there would be people out there who didn't agree with my opinions. I also knew that some of those people would be jerks about not agreeing with my opinions and might say things that could be considered insulting. That's their problem that they don't understand how to have adult discussions. One of the first things my mama taught me when I started school at 5 years old was a little saying, it started out "Sticks and Stones... 

Any adult that enters a political discussion has to know that tempers are going to flare, some people might be jerks and they have to have a thick enough skin to deal with that. Otherwise just dont participate.

I said earlier that it didn't matter to me one way or another if HP was here in Dims or not. I didn't participate enough there to really have anything invested in it. I do see the value for other people though and fully admit to spending a lot of time reading what other people think.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Every other board relates to size/fat, with the exception of the lounge, which is like an off-topic playground so that we _can_ talk about things other than fat and be sociable with one another. I don't think we need TWO off-topic playgrounds when one of them is consistently occupied by a gang of roving bullies. Sure, the mods can ban people who get too bad, but there will ALWAYS be another person cropping up in their place. Always. If you've tried repeatedly to clean up the playground and make it safe, but there are always more law-breakers coming back in, closing it so that innocent bystanders can't get hurt is the last resort.



Who are these "innocent bystanders", anyway? If the posters in Hyde Park were bullies, then they mostly bullied themselves. The reason Hyde Park worked is because it provided an outlet for people to talk about these hot-button issues with people that they already had something in common with (size/FA issues), and thus it complimented the more light-hearted Lounge perfectly. It's like being told not to talk about politics at the dinner table...suddenly the dinner table conversation becomes much less interesting.

And I'm just trying to figure out what could have been the tipping point that resulted in the board being closed since we had a guy there actively advocating shooting policemen and other authorities if they encroached on his land for months and seemingly nothing was done about it (certainly nothing publicly). Really, the line is where?


----------



## JoyJoy

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Like, I said, that's what the Lounge is for. OT discussion.


 Big difference between HP and the Lounge, and both served a different purpose. I agree that the problems in HP were enough that I'm not surprised it's gone, but it was very useful for many people. Didn't serve a purpose for you? Okay. It did for me, and for others, and will be missed, in spite of the "bullies".


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

You're right, Ella (and Sarah) - I should have added - 

I do feel for people who really enjoyed HP and always played nicely. It totally sucks to have something you enjoy taken away from you when you've done nothing wrong. Despite my very strong opinion that this is the right thing...I do empathize. I should have said that from the start. My apologies.

And Ella - I agree you and others knew how to debate maturely and with aplomb. It totally bites that everyone else had to ruin it. Do I think it belonged? Eh, not really. Do I think there would have been any harm in having it here if it had not been so contentious? Absolutely not. Do I think there *is* harm in having it here the way things have been going lately? Yeah, I do.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

JoyJoy said:


> Big difference between HP and the Lounge, and both served a different purpose. I agree that the problems in HP were enough that I'm not surprised it's gone, but it was very useful for many people. Didn't serve a purpose for you? Okay. It did for me, and for others, and will be missed, in spite of the "bullies".


And I'm sorry for that, Joy - and should have said that to start with.


----------



## JoyJoy

Ekim said:


> And I'm just trying to figure out what could have been the tipping point that resulted in the board being closed since we had a guy there actively advocating shooting policemen and other authorities if they encroached on his land for months and seemingly nothing was done about it (certainly nothing publicly). Really, the line is where?


I don't think there's ever a "tipping point" when decisions like this are made here. It's just...when the time comes, it's time.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Ekim said:


> Who are these "innocent bystanders", anyway? If the posters in Hyde Park were bullies, then they mostly bullied themselves. The reason Hyde Park worked is because it provided an outlet for people to talk about these hot-button issues with people that they already had something in common with (size/FA issues), and thus it complimented the more light-hearted Lounge perfectly. It's like being told not to talk about politics at the dinner table...suddenly the dinner table conversation becomes much less interesting.
> 
> And I'm just trying to figure out what could have been the tipping point that resulted in the board being closed since we had a guy there actively advocating shooting policemen and other authorities if they encroached on his land for months and seemingly nothing was done about it (certainly nothing publicly). Really, the line is where?


You and I will have to agree to disagree, Mike.  And actually - my family DOES have a no politics at the dinner table rule, because it DOES get nasty - I'm the only Dem in a family full of Republicans. So it could very well be my viewpoint is skewed.


----------



## mossystate

JoyJoy said:


> Big difference between HP and the Lounge, and both served a different purpose. I agree that the problems in HP were enough that I'm not surprised it's gone, but it was very useful for many people. Didn't serve a purpose for you? Okay. It did for me, and for others, and will be missed, in spite of the "bullies".



This. I really don't care that HP was not a place that some hung out. Really. Not the point.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

I was going to edit, but this thread is moving so fast some would probably miss it, so:

I didn't say HP and the Lounge were the same. I realize they are VASTLY different and serve different purposes. I was saying they are both OT boards on a themed forum. That was the only comparison I was making. And I in no way was saying that it made a difference that some people didn't hang out there - not sure why you think that WAS a point I was making Mossy (if that's what you were saying).

On another board I frequent, OT posts are only infrequently allowed, and there are no OT forums. That forum is the largest of its kind on its particular topic, and it's a great little community. I love it. *Shrug.* I don't think OT political forums are a necessary part of making a community.

I understand the grieving process, and the loss of something people enjoyed. I 100% feel empathy for that. I just don't agree that it had a place here to start with.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

missaf said:


> Using the "sitting at the bash" example, are people really going to address their friends and acquaintances the same way they do in HP most of the time? Absolutely not, and that's the problem with online conversations. That's comparing apples and oranges.
> 
> Using an example of real life conversations, a group of 20 Dimmers got together this year, and the conversation remained civil, fun and productive about topics other than fat. Had the people in that room said what they say in HP, the party would have probably never happened.
> 
> Dims was losing far too many good people because of bickering in HP. Good, solid, and amazing members of the community have left because of the tension resulting in HP discussions.



And other good, solid, amazing people will probably leave now that Hyde Park is gone. Can't please everybody.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

I'm sorry, if the _only_, single, solitary reason you spend time at Dims is because of Hyde Park... if there's nothing else keeping you here... well, I don't know. I just wouldn't understand that.


----------



## JoyJoy

missaf said:


> Using the "sitting at the bash" example, are people really going to address their friends and acquaintances the same way they do in HP most of the time? Absolutely not, and that's the problem with online conversations. That's comparing apples and oranges.
> 
> Using an example of real life conversations, a group of 20 Dimmers got together this year, and the conversation remained civil, fun and productive about topics other than fat. Had the people in that room said what they say in HP, the party would have probably never happened.
> 
> Dims was losing far too many good people because of bickering in HP. Good, solid, and amazing members of the community have left because of the tension resulting in HP discussions.


I realize that the bash comparison wasn't perfect, but my point is that just because something is made to bring a certain set of people together, doesn't mean it absolutely must stay within that topic that those people have in common, which was the logic Ginny was using. I know full well that there was a great deal of abuse within Hyde Park. Like I said, I'm not at all surprised that it's closed, just very disappointed and annoyed at assertions that it didn't belong here in the first place because it didn't serve a purpose. I'm hoping that hints at there being an alternative in the works are true. If not, I guess I'll have to learn to deal. Woe is me.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

BigBeautifulMe said:


> I'm sorry, if the _only_, single, solitary reason you spend time at Dims is because of Hyde Park... if there's nothing else keeping you here... well, I don't know. I just wouldn't understand that.



Well, I'd imagine there have to be other people like me who, while they certainly explored all of the other boards and often posted in them as well, really found that they were fond of talking about current events with the people in Hyde Park (and I was especially pleased to have that place to post because I usually don't have much to add in the "on-topic" conversations). I dunno, I felt with Hyde Park there it transformed Dims from a place to talk about size acceptance to a place where people who believe in size acceptance could hang out, and I thought that was terrific. Now I think it'll just turn back into a place to talk about size acceptance, and there are already places to do that on the Internet. Now I'm obviously being melodramatic, but that's my gut feeling anyway.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

BigBeautifulMe said:


> I'm sorry, if the _only_, single, solitary reason you spend time at Dims is because of Hyde Park... if there's nothing else keeping you here... well, I don't know. I just wouldn't understand that.




I'm not picking at you, I promise.

People initially find Dims because they are either fat, or like fat people. Its pretty natural I think for people to gravitate to whatever areas hold the most interest for them. Not everyone's into the movie, book, or say something about the last poster threads which seem to make up the lounge. Some people aren't into clothes, some don't want to talk about food, and some may just get tired of talking about fat this and fat that. So if someone is greatly interested in political discussions it just makes sense to me that the majority if not all of their interactions would be in HP. 

Doesn't mean they are any less "for" size acceptance, maybe just means they are fat people or fat admirers that enjoy discussing politics with other fat people/admirers.


----------



## mossystate

BigBeautifulMe said:


> And I in no way was saying that it made a difference that some people didn't hang out there - not sure why you think that WAS a point I was making Mossy (if that's what you were saying).



I was agreeing with Joy that HP served a purpose. A very real, and, overall, a very good purpose. It is about viewing fat people as not just about their fat. People can talk about Nascar. People can talk about their dates/lack of dates. They have a place for that. I just think that the reasoning that some are giving...is a bit contradictory...and has more to do with their own personal preferences/likes/dislikes. Aside from moderating issues, I do not see why some are so scared of people showing more fully, who they are. Wacky.


----------



## mossystate

BigBeautifulMe said:


> I'm sorry, if the _only_, single, solitary reason you spend time at Dims is because of Hyde Park... if there's nothing else keeping you here... well, I don't know. I just wouldn't understand that.



I doubt there are more than a couple of people who come to Dimensions JUST to post in Hyde Park. Lurking on the Paysite board is probably their other great contribution. But, that is some great participation right there.


----------



## exile in thighville

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Like I said, that's what the Lounge is for. OT discussion.



then the lounge shouldn't limit its topics. the more i read this thread the more i lose sympathy for the mods re: hyde park...when we're all admitting that it was a bitch to moderate and that loads of participants broke those rules at one point or another, the less and less i see why an attempt to control the environment was made in the first place. clearly this board served the purpose of keeping it all in one place and off the other boards, where i assume far fewer infractions are doled out. someone called it a "valve," you could go further and call it a "sewer." it was there to keep the shit in one place. 



missaf said:


> It wasn't just a certain "set" of bullies. I would venture to guess without doing the research that roughly 60% of HP posters violated the rules at one time or another, and were counseled by Mods because of it. Of that 60%, I'm betting half received warnings or infractions, and about 20% of that number were given time outs or permanent bannings.



how can bad apples ruin it for everyone when everyone is a bad apple?



BigBeautifulMe said:


> Should we have boards specifically dedicated to those things? No. Why? Because it's not related, directly or indirectly to size acceptance/fat people



most of what is posted here has naught to do with "size acceptance." and people want to have off-topic discussions and debates with their kind of people. (i know, i know, pm...JUS SAYIN)



mossystate said:


> I hate that I agree with you.
> 
> But, as I have always felt this, I will pretend I vocalized it.



i hope obama fails


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

JoyJoy said:


> I realize that the bash comparison wasn't perfect, but my point is that just because something is made to bring a certain set of people together, doesn't mean it absolutely must stay within that topic that those people have in common, which was the logic Ginny was using. I know full well that there was a great deal of abuse within Hyde Park. Like I said, I'm not at all surprised that it's closed, just very disappointed and annoyed at assertions that it didn't belong here in the first place because it didn't serve a purpose. I'm hoping that hints at there being an alternative in the works are true. If not, I guess I'll have to learn to deal. Woe is me.



You know, I typed out this whole response, and I realized - 

This is why I never participated in HP. I say what I think, then someone I very much like and respect comes along and (in a completely civil manner, even, sometimes) attributes a couple of things to me that I didn't say *at all*, and I try to reexplain what I'm trying to say, and it just keeps happening over and over until it's completely frustrating and there are bad feelings. 

Now, I generally consider myself pretty good at explaining what I'm trying to say - I write for a living - but no matter what I say or how well I say it it always seems to be misinterpreted by at least one person I care about, intentionally or unintentionally, and it often makes me feel differently about them or our friendship. It makes me feel shitty, honestly. 

I love you, Joy, so I'm backing out of this back-and-forth before that happens.

Yep, I'm thin skinned, and I knew it, and that's why I stayed out of HP. Unfortunately, not everyone knows their limits/can stay away from train wrecks, and others don't know the limits of what's debating and what's personally attacking. It just was bad news all around.


----------



## Tina

LillyBBBW said:


> If the mods or whatever say they got rid of hp because they got tired of mopping up poo then I think it's fair to say that the poo tossers hell bent on tossing poo were the reason hyde park is no more. It's not meant to be offensive or divisive, it's just saying what is so. I will say though that to exist in hp you would hardly notice any outward sign of dismay with poo tossers. I think it's because in order to exact justice you would have to toss some of the wheat with the so called chaff. It's hard to bounce out riff raff when someone with Rep advantage is slapping around down there in the gutter with them doing the same thing. To administer justice you would have had to get rid of both which would cause further upset and cries of foul. The demise of the board seemed almost inevitable.


The ultimate authority here is Conrad, so he is the one who shut it down, not us, though he does listen and consider input from us mods. I don't want to give the impression that I'm trying to speak for Conrad here, because I couldn't; but I do have a few things to say, given my perspective as a mod and things I've seen and gleaned. 

Frankly, though yes, it was a time and energy suck dealing with some of the personalities, it wasn't only a matter of that. Conrad didn't create this place so that people can tear each other a new one, I'm sure. We all know that when large groups of people get together and talk politics, or anything really, it can sometimes turn heated. But I believe this board, and before it the magazine, and before that the SIG, was created as positive things, for positive reasons. I feel certain it was distressing to see friendships end over one section of the board.

Some say that there's fighting on the WB and elsewhere, too, and that's not being shut down. Well, true, however, HP was the one place where there were reliably contentious threads and flame wars, whereas it happens on other boards but not with the same frequency. Also, from what I can tell, Dims was created with a focus on fat admiration, fat acceptance, fat politics -- not Washington politics. I would guess that if there are two boards that are warring equally (though, again, they weren't HP usually wins that one by a mile), the one that will stay is the one that embodies part of why Dimensions was created.

One thing I know with absolute certainty about Conrad is that he does not consider the creation or removal of boards quickly or lightly, or on a whim. Some say that the board could have been unmoderated. That is obviously not what Conrad wanted to do, or he would have done it. I don't think Conrad ever intended on creating a political version of Thunderdome. Like Traci, I feel sad that the spot where the people who truly cared about discussing political and social topics more than just getting zings in have lost that spot. Would it have been a place where that kind of discussion was the norm, it would still be here, I feel certain. Yes, as with much of the rest of life, a few bad apples can, if not ruin it for everyone else, certainly they can give it a huge push. I was very much in favor of the creation of HP, but by the end was honestly very burned out on it. With complete honesty, as a mod, part of me is glad it's gone, but part of me is not. I do understand the sadness and upset about the removal of HP.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

exile in thighville said:


> then the lounge shouldn't limit its topics. the more i read this thread the more i lose sympathy for the mods re: hyde park...when we're all admitting that it was a bitch to moderate and that loads of participants broke those rules at one point or another, the less and less i see why an attempt to control the environment was made in the first place. clearly this board serve the purpose of keeping it all in one place and off the other boards, where i assume far fewer infractions are doled out. someone called it a "valve," you could go further and call it a "sewer." it was there to keep the shit in one place.
> 
> 
> 
> how can bad apples ruin it for everyone when everyone is a bad apple?
> 
> 
> 
> most of what is posted here has naught to do with "size acceptance." and people want to have off-topic discussions and debates with their kind of people. (i know, i know, pm...JUS SAYIN)
> 
> 
> 
> i hope obama fails



Sorry Dan, when I said "Size Acceptance" I also meant fatness/being fat/living a fat life. All o' that lumped in there. I thought I'd be okay abbreviating. I should know better.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Tina said:


> The ultimate authority here is Conrad, so he is the one who shut it down, not us, though he does listen and consider input from us mods. I don't want to give the impression that I'm trying to speak for Conrad here, because I couldn't; but I do have a few things to say, given my perspective as a mod and things I've seen and gleaned.
> 
> Frankly, though yes, it was a time and energy suck dealing with some of the personalities, it wasn't only a matter of that. Conrad didn't create this place so that people can tear each other a new one, I'm sure. We all know that when large groups of people get together and talk politics, or anything really, it can sometimes turn heated. But I believe this board, and before it the magazine, and before that the SIG, was created as positive things, for positive reasons. I feel certain it was distressing to see friendships end over one section of the board.
> 
> Some say that there's fighting on the WB and elsewhere, too, and that's not being shut down. Well, true, however, HP was the one place where there were reliably contentious threads and flame wars, whereas it happens on other boards but not with the same frequency. Also, from what I can tell, Dims was created with a focus on fat admiration, fat acceptance, fat politics -- not Washington politics. I would guess that if there are two boards that are warring equally (though, again, they weren't HP usually wins that one by a mile), the one that will stay is the one that embodies part of why Dimensions was created.
> 
> One thing I know with absolute certainty about Conrad is that he does not consider the creation or removal of boards quickly or lightly, or on a whim. Some say that the board could have been unmoderated. That is obviously not what Conrad wanted to do, or he would have done it. I don't think Conrad ever intended on creating a political version of Thunderdome. Like Traci, I feel sad that the spot where the people who truly cared about discussing political and social topics more than just getting zings in have lost that spot. Would it have been a place where that kind of discussion was the norm, it would still be here, I feel certain. Yes, as with much of the rest of life, a few bad apples can, if not ruin it for everyone else, certainly they can give it a huge push. I was very much in favor of the creation of HP, but by the end was honestly very burned out on it. With complete honesty, as a mod, part of me is glad it's gone, but part of me is not. I understand that sadness and upset about the removal of HP.


I want to post like Tina when I grow up.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

Tina said:


> Frankly, though yes, it was a time and energy suck dealing with some of the personalities, it wasn't only a matter of that. Conrad didn't create this place so that people can tear each other a new one, I'm sure. We all know that when large groups of people get together and talk politics, or anything really, it can sometimes turn heated. But I believe this board, and before it the magazine, and before that the SIG, was created as positive things, for positive reasons. I feel certain it was distressing to see friendships end over one section of the board.



Yet there are contentious issues discussed in the Main Dimensions & Weight boards (including threads several which were so inappropriate that I think I literally shuddered when I read them), and there've been "flame wars" there too. Surely not as many as in Hyde Park, but they're definitely there. In fact, the only threads I've seen people literally get banned for were from other boards, not Hyde Park.


----------



## exile in thighville

i want to post like mossy


----------



## exile in thighville

Ekim said:


> Yet there are contentious issues discussed in the Main Dimensions & Weight boards (including threads several which were so inappropriate that I think I literally shuddered when I read them), and there've been "flame wars" there too. Surely not as many as in Hyde Park, but they're definitely there. In fact, the only threads I've seen people literally get banned for were from other boards, not Hyde Park.



i can think of two people off the top of my head who got banned for hyde park


----------



## Tina

Ekim said:


> Yet there are contentious issues discussed in the Main Dimensions & Weight boards (including threads several which were so inappropriate that I think I literally shuddered when I read them), and there've been "flame wars" there too. Surely not as many as in Hyde Park, but they're definitely there. In fact, the only threads I've seen people literally get banned for were from other boards, not Hyde Park.


Just because you don't see it, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Many have been banned for their behavior in HP. More than on the rest of the boards, actually, unless we're talking trolls and spammers.

No one will never say that fights don't happen on the rest of the forums. That's not the point, though.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

exile in thighville said:


> i can think of two people off the top of my head who got banned for hyde park



this list you must show us this

..

No, I believe you. I'm just saying that the people outside Hyde Park aren't so well-behaved that the people inside of it should look like hellraisers.


----------



## JoyJoy

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Again, my personal opinion, not speaking as a mod...
> 
> I'm sure a good number of people here like to talk about, say, monster trucks. Or NASCAR. Or environmental issues. Should we have boards specifically dedicated to those things? No. Why? Because it's not related, directly or indirectly to size acceptance/fat people, and (what I perceive to be - only my opinion) the purpose of Dimensions. Now, what if we tried a board on such a topic and it became so turbulent it was a serious problem? I'm sorry, I just don't see why this is such an issue. Hyde Park was always the sore thumb in the "what's wrong with this picture" puzzle. Every other board relates to size/fat, with the exception of the lounge, which is like an off-topic playground so that we _can_ talk about things other than fat and be sociable with one another. I don't think we need TWO off-topic playgrounds when one of them is consistently occupied by a gang of roving bullies. Sure, the mods can ban people who get too bad, but there will ALWAYS be another person cropping up in their place. Always. If you've tried repeatedly to clean up the playground and make it safe, but there are always more law-breakers coming back in, closing it so that innocent bystanders can't get hurt is the last resort.



Ginny, please don't mistake this as me attacking you or being confrontational. You posted, I'm responding. We disagree - and that's okay. 

Your post felt dismissive to those of us who found value in HP. Whether or not that's what you meant, that's how it came across. I simply responded to that. I'm not meaning to be ugly, but I have pretty good reading comprehension, so I do get the point you were trying to make, I just think you didn't stop to think how it would come across.


----------



## Tina

Ekim said:


> this list you must show us this
> 
> ..
> 
> No, I believe you. I'm just saying that the people outside Hyde Park aren't so well-behaved that the people inside of it should look like hellraisers.



Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying.

True. People are people wherever you go. Eventually the honeymoon period is over and the shit hits the fan. It's inevitable. HP just seemed to have a way of bringing out the worst in some, especially when it's politics and things that mean so much to some that they will defend it to the death -- even if it's just a cyber-kill.

BTW, re: your post much earlier. I used to post a lot in HP, but a couple of things happened. I found that sometimes I got too wound up discussing politics, which isn't a good thing. Also, I do have opinions, and the more those who disagree with me heard them, the more they felt marginalized and like I was biased and moderated accordingly. In fact, I love differing opinions; it's what makes life interesting -- and boards, too. I would never infract, edit or ban someone just because I dislike and disagree with their opinions. Some of the most 'problematic' posters who have gone now I liked having around, even though sometimes they drove me nuts with demands. Demands for explanations, clarifications, specific quotes I sometimes spent half my day LITERALLY, no exaggeration -- responding to PMs, trying to explain and show why thus and such, and then using a cyber scalpel to edit out bits of posts from pages of posts. Many of the worst offenders (who shall not be named, but most were posting early on) I kind of missed them because I LIKE contrasts of all kinds: colors, size, texture -- opinion. How boring to have everyone always agree, no? So it's not like I don't care that HP is gone. But again, I'm conflicted in feeling kind of sad and yet kind of relieved. It's the truth, for better or worse.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

JoyJoy said:


> Ginny, please don't mistake this as me attacking you or being confrontational. You posted, I'm responding. We disagree - and that's okay.
> 
> Your post felt dismissive to those of us who found value in HP. Whether or not that's what you meant, that's how it came across. I simply responded to that. I'm not meaning to be ugly, but I have pretty good reading comprehension, so I do get the point you were trying to make, I just think you didn't stop to think how it would come across.



Which I realized, and attempted to rectify promptly. 

That doesn't change the fact you attributed two things to me that I absolutely didn't say. And I have no doubt your reading comprehension is perfect. Just that the way you read it combined with the way I said it did not equal what I was trying to say.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

Tina said:


> Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying.
> 
> True. People are people wherever you go. Eventually the honeymoon period is over and the shit hits the fan. It's inevitable. HP just seemed to have a way of bringing out the worst in some, especially when it's politics and things that mean so much to some that they will defend it to the death -- even if it's just a cyber-kill.



Yet there are many people here who are willing to do the same for size-related issues. Why congratulate one and condemn the other? And I really don't think people "brought out their worst" as often as is being claimed here; even the people I disagreed with usually didn't raise their level above a shout, and I really tried to reply in kind. Seriously, if the mods just told biodieselman to stop putting those damn cartoons in all of his posts or he'd be banned, I think the place would've seemed less chaotic. Oh, the nightmares I had about those damn cartoons... lol


----------



## snuggletiger

Wow what a playground I kinda miss it. Bummerz all around


----------



## Les Toil

Steve said:


> Here's another playground. It even looks like Dimensions.
> 
> http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/



Oh...my...gawd. I just came back from this place. This joint is an invitation to a heart attack. Every heated topic known to mankind has its own board there. The anxiety level must be off the charts.


----------



## Tina

Ekim said:


> Yet there are many people here who are willing to do the same for size-related issues. Why congratulate one and condemn the other?


I explained earlier, though not with authority; only with my opinion. This site wasn't created for the discussion of politics -- unless you're talking the politics of fat. It was originally created for fat admirers and for fat people, and for issues surrounding that. That is the focus of the site and why it's here. In all of life we have priorities. HP was the most contentious of all the boards and was just an add on. HP was not here from the start of this board software, and certainly not on the old board, where political discussion wasn't allowed at all. 


> And I really don't think people "brought out their worst" as often as is being claimed here; even the people I disagreed with usually didn't raise their level above a shout, and I really tried to reply in kind. Seriously, if the mods just told biodieselman to stop putting those damn cartoons in all of his posts or he'd be banned, I think the place would've seemed less chaotic. Oh, the nightmares I had about those damn cartoons... lol


Bio is allowed his opinion just as much as anyone else. Yes, those infamous cartoons really got some ire up, but honestly, those cartoons weren't personal attacks, and it's the personal attacks -- the down and dirty stuff -- that helped to bring the board down, not cartoons. A few of them irritated me, too, but most I could see the truth and humor in, even when I disagreed. I never realized so many were traumatized by those cartoons.


----------



## Spanky

"Do not mess in the affairs of the pretty mods, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup"


Tina, you explain it all so well :bow: and for those who lurked and participated BHP (before Hyde Park) knew that Dims survived and thrived sans political stuff. It will survive on without it in the future. Maybe something else will fill in its place. 

<deleted comment about "change">

<deleted political cartoon of mods, gorillas and flinging poo>


----------



## Mathias

Les Toil said:


> Oh...my...gawd. I just came back from this place. This joint is an invitation to a heart attack. Every heated topic known to mankind has its own board there. The anxiety level must be off the charts.



Agreed :shocked:


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Spanky, I have been trying to figure out for days what your avatar pic reminds me of, and why I can't take my eyes off of it. Then I realized:







Wish I could find a profile pic so it'd be more obvious.


----------



## Tina

Spanky said:


> "Do not mess in the affairs of the pretty mods, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup"
> 
> 
> Tina, you explain it all so well :bow: and for those who lurked and participated BHP (before Hyde Park) knew that Dims survived and thrived sans political stuff. It will survive on without it in the future. Maybe something else will fill in its place.
> 
> <deleted comment about "change">
> 
> <deleted political cartoon of mods, gorillas and flinging poo>


You know, I've never flung literal poo. Maybe that's something I should work on. I'm a pretty good aim with a gun, not as good with darts, not sure with poo. Wanna be my test target, Sparks?  

_"Do not mess in the affairs of the pretty mods, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup"_

I like that. It's a little too power-over for me, but the mischevious part of me wants to put it in my sig.


----------



## Sandie S-R

Keb said:


> And also a comment that was made to me via rep that has had me thinking...honestly, and quite bluntly, the effect of Hyde Park being gone makes me feel unwelcome here unless I'm willing to strip for a camera. I know that's not the message that was intended, but it's what I'm feeling.
> 
> Also, there is not enough rep to go around for this thread. Love you guys.



I think it is quite sad Keb, that you feel as though you are not welcome here unless you "strip for a camera". 

The majority of women here do not strip for a camera (and never post in the paysite forum), and it's a shame that you don't know or see that. But then, maybe if you interacted in forums other than HP you might find that out.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

You've never heard that expression, T?  It usually starts with "Never meddle in the affairs of dragons..."


----------



## Tina

Ahhh, yeah, okay. Yes, I have. But my Swiss Cheese Brain Syndrome got the better of me and I couldn't make the transfer over from dragons to mods. Hey! What're you trying to say here, Spunky? *looks for poo to fling at Sparks -- there's plenty, having the new puppy and all...*


----------



## Spanky

Tina said:


> Ahhh, yeah, okay. Yes, I have. But my Swiss Cheese Brain Syndrome got the better of me and I couldn't make the transfer over from dragons to mods. Hey! What're you trying to say here, Spunky? *looks for poo to fling at Sparks -- there's plenty, having the new puppy and all...*



I stole a bumper sticker line from a Subaru drivin' Wiccan lady in front of me. Wiccan because that was on the other bumper sticker. I substituted "pretty mods" for "dragons". Oh, and I just lub ketchup. 

Not calling you guys dragons. <whew>

Just thought it a cute way of saying "don't mess with the mods".

:doh:


----------



## Tina

LOL!! Okay then. No poo for you.


----------



## Risible

Fine. If it's dragons we be, then I choose the one from The Hobbit (what's its name?).


----------



## Spanky

Keb said:


> And also a comment that was made to me via rep that has had me thinking...honestly, and quite bluntly, the effect of Hyde Park being gone makes me feel unwelcome here unless I'm willing to strip for a camera. I know that's not the message that was intended, but it's what I'm feeling.
> 
> Also, there is not enough rep to go around for this thread. Love you guys.



Keb, it would be sad if you think stripping is some way to feel welcome on the boards. People posts pics for fun as they see fit. Seeing a person's face in an av or profile pic only helps give you a better connection to the person. Even that is not necessary. 

Some of the people I most like on these boards have shown nothing more than a face. And sometimes barely that. 

Very sad if you think that. Please don't.


----------



## Tina

Smog, Ris. 

Keb, I agree with Sparky. There are sections of this forum where one is apt to see those kinds of threads, and whole other sections where one does not. And it's certainly not the key to popularity with most posters, by and large. I'm not sure how you formed the opinion that other than HP it's all T&A, but IMO it's unfounded.


----------



## exile in thighville

Ekim said:


> this list you must show us this
> 
> ..
> 
> No, I believe you. I'm just saying that the people outside Hyde Park aren't so well-behaved that the people inside of it should look like hellraisers.



real talk: hyde park was a savage place. conrad doesn't have the stomach for it anymore, and the mods are giving us reasons why, which are kind of bullshit, but whatever, it wasn't their decision. either way they're happy to be done with it.


----------



## Tina

Thank you for re-capping what I wrote inaccurately, Dan. I see you're not reading for comprehension. You've a right to your opinion without it being called "bullshit," and so do I.


----------



## Santaclear

I did love much of the diversity that Hyde Park brought to Dimensions. As Joy wrote above (I'm paraphrasing) a forum that's _only_ about fat would be pretty boring.


----------



## Santaclear

I will miss the bullying and the bullies.


----------



## Fascinita

Ekim said:


> It's so bizarre seeing these two parallel conversations going on at the same time here



*Five*! *Five* conversations!


----------



## LillyBBBW

Tina said:


> Smog, Ris.
> 
> Keb, I agree with Sparky. There are sections of this forum where one is apt to see those kinds of threads, and whole other sections where one does not. And it's certainly not the key to popularity with most posters, by and large. I'm not sure how you formed the opinion that other than HP it's all T&A, but IMO it's unfounded.



I don't see what Keb said as being any more ignorant than the things others have said or implied about hyde park and the kinds of people who mostly post there. HP is seen that way because it doesn't appeal to them so they're not going to get it. I think the bottom line is that the picture threads and more fat discussion doesn't appeal to Keb. They don't really appeal to me all that much either. I've tossed in once or twice but those threads get old quickly. HP was where my mind was truly enganged among friends I know and whose opinions I value even though we disagree. I loved that board and now it's gone. To some people that's funny but still to us it's a loss. A major loss.


----------



## HottiMegan

You took the words right out of my mouth Lilly. I lurked most of the time on that board but it was very stimulating to me. I will certainly miss it.


----------



## Tina

Lilly, I never called anyone ignorant. But to imply that women aren't welcome on the rest of the boards unless they strip is, IMO, unfounded.

And with that, I'm bowing out, because I feel that my words are being taken in ways that are not meant, and that's not going to be helpful, which is all that I had intended in the first place when posting here. I'd rather not make things worse.


----------



## mossystate

LillyBBBW said:


> I don't see what Keb said as being any more ignorant than the things others have said or implied about hyde park and the kinds of people who mostly post there.



I repped you for the whole post, but, this part is so very true. I never thought twice about a person who was just not into posting on HP.


----------



## 1300 Class

> I'm wondering what the more passionate posters in Hyde Park have to say about this.


The honest truth? I've stopped caring. It was like having your favourite regular bar or hangout burnt down. I mean the lounge is the lounge, it doesn't stimulate my mind. It doesn't 'get me going', for me it has no purpose, no _end_. 

It seems that a vocal minority* wish to see it never return for a number of reasons, some valid, some not, some true, some outlandishly false and misguided have all come out of the woodwork. I think Dims is now a lot poorer for it. 

As a suggestion, I think we should have a "Gentleman and Ladies Discussion Club" board to replace HP. Make it a sub-board of the Lounge. Free to view, but posting rights by request/agreement with mod/s (then if you rough it up, you loose that right). That way, people who want to enter into proper discussion and topics of interest can do so. As a fellow with long time and considerable moderating experience on a number of forums, I would be glad to spearhead this undertaking.






*Of which quite a few seem to never or rarely participate.


----------



## Spanky

LillyBBBW said:


> I don't see what Keb said as being any more ignorant than the things others have said or implied about hyde park and the kinds of people who mostly post there. HP is seen that way because it doesn't appeal to them so they're not going to get it. I think the bottom line is that the picture threads and more fat discussion doesn't appeal to Keb. They don't really appeal to me all that much either. I've tossed in once or twice but those threads get old quickly. HP was where my mind was truly enganged among friends I know and whose opinions I value even though we disagree. I loved that board and now it's gone. To some people that's funny but still to us it's a loss. A major loss.



I get it, Lilly. Had to read it a few times, but I get it. I still felt compelled to let Keb know that Dims is NOT that. As her comments compare or are likened to simple overarching generalizations of HP people, I understand what you meant. 

My feelings are on HP are summed up as follows:

I miss Hyde Park. I am glad Hyde Park is gone. I liked Hyde Park. I fucking hated Hyde Park. I loved HP people who posted there. I wanted to rip HP people out of the screen and choke them.


----------



## tonynyc

Spanky said:


> My feelings are on HP are summed up as follows:
> 
> I miss Hyde Park. I am glad Hyde Park is gone. I liked Hyde Park. I fucking hated Hyde Park. I loved HP people who posted there. I wanted to rip HP people out of the screen and choke them.



Never has so many feeling about Hyde Park been expressed in so few "true" words.

Now ripping people out of the screen and choking them is not a good thing - Verbal Beatdown is better.


----------



## Mack27

I don't know, it seems to me that for years Hyde Park was a bash Bush, bash the Republicans, bash anything remotely conservative stomping ground. Righteous catharsis for the left. It was perfectly natural for it to be like that. Just like it was natural for the right to get all noisy and indignant and howling back when Clinton was in office. 

Just as the pendulum was swinging again because of Obama (of course the fights would intensify) the forum is pulled out from under us. Of course I can go elsewhere to start arguing with people I don't know and don't care about, but where's the fun in that? 

I told Lalacity that the Republican National Convention was better than the Democrat one because I spotted more hot BBW's there. This is a legitimate argument no place else!

I admit that I enjoyed drawing the ire of individuals in Hyde Park. Many times I got them so mad that they'd violate the rules, I loved doing that. I guess I am a stinker. I'm sorry if I'm responsible at all for Hyde Park's demise.


----------



## Spanky

tonynyc said:


> Now ripping people out of the screen and choking them is not a good thing - Verbal Beatdown is better.



It's all good, brother. 

It's alllllllllll gooooooood. 


And wanting to do it and actually doing it. Two different things.


----------



## AnnMarie

notevenfuckingworthdealingwiththedramatics


----------



## TotallyReal

AnnMarie said:


> notevenfuckingworthdealingwiththedramatics


----------



## TotallyReal




----------



## JoyJoy

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Which I realized, and attempted to rectify promptly.
> 
> That doesn't change the fact you attributed two things to me that I absolutely didn't say. And I have no doubt your reading comprehension is perfect. Just that the way you read it combined with the way I said it did not equal what I was trying to say.


Really not trying to beat that old horse, but I'm still not seeing what I've misunderstood in what you said. To paraphrase what I understood you to say: You don't think HP should have existed in the first place because it was controversial, political and had nothing to do with fat. You feel that the only acceptable OT location is the lounge, and you're glad HP is gone. I'd just like to know what it is that I got wrong, because I'm obviously not getting it. 

And Ginny...I'm not purposely being argumentative, although I'm afraid it might come across that way. I honestly want to understand how I misinterpreted what you said.


----------



## TotallyReal




----------



## TotallyReal




----------



## TraciJo67

Could we please ... PLEASE ... can the lolcats? Please?


----------



## Mathias

It defeats the purpose if the LOLcats don't actually make you LOL.


----------



## TotallyReal




----------



## TraciJo67

Mathias said:


> It defeats the purpose if the LOLcats don't actually make you LOL.



They make me cringe, actually. They served a purpose, the first ... oh, 3 gazillion times that they were used.


----------



## Mathias

Post it so the full message on the picture shows up and maybe I'll think they're funny.


----------



## tonynyc

Spanky said:


> It's all good, brother.
> 
> It's alllllllllll gooooooood.
> 
> 
> And wanting to do it and actually doing it. Two different things.



Spoken like a true Master of the Arts you make us all proud :bow:


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

Okay, Joy. Since I respect you, and the tone is constructive discussion... 



JoyJoy said:


> I realize that the bash comparison wasn't perfect, but *my point is that just because something is made to bring a certain set of people together, doesn't mean it absolutely must stay within that topic that those people have in common, which was the logic Ginny was using. *I know full well that there was a great deal of abuse within Hyde Park. Like I said, I'm not at all surprised that it's closed, *just very disappointed and annoyed at assertions that it didn't belong here in the first place because it didn't serve a purpose.* I'm hoping that hints at there being an alternative in the works are true. If not, I guess I'll have to learn to deal. Woe is me.



Here you've said (assuming the second bolded section was directed at me also) that I:

1) Think all discussion on Dims should be on-topic with fatness;
2) Think that HP served no purpose.

Neither of these are what I think/feel, and if I've come across that way, I've absolutely inadequately said what I was trying to say. 

1) I absolutely think allowing OT discussion in some form is important for building community. I do not think OT discussion that _tears down_ a community more than builds it needs to be part of a forum, and this is what I personally feel HP was doing, at times. 

2) I absolutely think HP served a purpose. _If _political posts are to be allowed, I 100% agree they need to be corralled in one place so that people who want to can avoid them, and not be dragged into it. That was the purpose HP served.

That's what I was talking about. 

I want to reiterate - I am sorry that genuinely good people who enjoyed a good debate are having something they very much valued and enjoyed taken away from them. I think it's great to have a place where people like you, Joy, my friends, can go to sharpen their wit and practice good-natured verbal jousting with like-minded people. It's the people who can't play nicely who make it a less-than-positive space, but (I think - can't speak for the Chief here, at all) I think Dimensions was intended to be a primarily positive space. HP was not _primarily_ positive. Again, that's only my opinion. :bow:


----------



## exile in thighville

totallyreal is the best boarder

your move chubbyblacksista


----------



## exile in thighville

Tina said:


> Thank you for re-capping what I wrote inaccurately, Dan. I see you're not reading for comprehension. You've a right to your opinion without it being called "bullshit," and so do I.



i didn't mean disrespect but i didn't really mean your posts in partic, how about this I DISSENT


----------



## TotallyReal

Mathias said:


> Post it so the full message on the picture shows up and maybe I'll think they're funny.


----------



## BBWTexan

Ned Sonntag said:


> I wasn't feeling real comfortable speculating going to Orlando and running into folks whose worldview horrified me. That already happened recently. So the shutdown was a good preemptive move for that eventuality... it's better not to know, or to try to forget.



This is why the closing of Hyde Park was a good thing. I'm friends with people who are all over the political spectrum, but I'd hate to think that would change simply because of my political beliefs or theirs. We have so much to offer one another in this community that it would be a shame to let it all go to pot just because we don't like how someone votes. Can I count on a hug in Orlando, Ned?  

I certainly had my own love/hate relationship with Hyde Park, but it really had no place here. It was of absolutely no benefit to the cause for which we are all here - in fact, I would argue that it only served to divide us further. This isn't about the First Amendment; this is about what is best for this community and I firmly believe that Conrad has made the right decision. 




Spanky said:


> I miss Hyde Park. I am glad Hyde Park is gone. I liked Hyde Park. I fucking hated Hyde Park. I loved HP people who posted there. I wanted to rip HP people out of the screen and choke them.



Yep and yep. At the very least I can count on my blood pressure going down - given my physique, I didn't need that problem added on. 

So, in a final tribute to HP, should the  emoticon be permanently retired?


----------



## Keb

I contribute on other boards when I have something worth saying. I don't always; there are plenty of people with more experience than I have who frequently address things better than I could. I know this site isn't just about the paysite board--the main board, the health board, the fashion board, and the weight board all have really useful informational discussions. That's what got me started coming here. Hyde park is what's kept me around, though, because it was the one place where I felt I could really interact with the community. 

And my observation that several boards have active pics threads, which always seem to get the most attention, stands, even if my emotional conclusion is entirely irrational (which I knew when I posted it--but feelings rarely are rational). 

Actually...argue with everyone looks like a fun site, to me. 

I don't mean to misrepresent DIMs. It -is- a good resource. It was more fun with HP.


----------



## Observer

Those posters noting the real reason for placing Hyde Park on hiatus (as has been already noted, he forum and all its threads can still be viewed if you know how) are correct. It wasn't really due to bullies or moderator fatigue or any specific thread or post. It was Conrad's concern over the constant negativity and impact upon normally rational people and relationships. 

This is Conrad's site, with a philosophy of letting people exercise civility and common sense - and moderators being told that they moderate best who moderate least. Hyde Park didn't begin with the initial objective of being a political forum and initially had no moderators. It became political and the tone led to the need "da rules" and assigned moderators. The moderators indeed did become, along with some community members, the target of "bullies." But it was the overall unfortunately negative tenor on both issues and towards fellow posters that was the real issue.

Making the assumption that we'll "never again" see politics or other non-fat related liberal arts topics (history, religion, social issues, etc) discussed here again is erroneous. Equally in error is the idea that we will have such an outlet or that such topics will be allowed to continue if they spring up elsewhere. 

Back in post 235, which was only this morning (!) and we're up to 360 posts+, I extended the following invitation as part of a longer discussion:



> Yesterday I replied to one PM from a community member about a possible answer to all this and cc'd Conrad. He understands the dilemma but the wounds are presently too fresh. I'd be interested in corresponding (privately for now) with others who would like to see a forum for ideas and dialogue to fill the void that now exists.



Since then I've received some interesting and constructive replies. To those who have written thus far, thank you. Nothing at this point has been reduced to writing and likely won't be until month end. Still, I would like to again request input and suggestions via PM.


----------



## ataraxia

thatgirl08 said:


> I, for one, am very glad to have Hyde Park gone. It was too much bickering and not enough discussion. Reality is, there are plently of forums out there where you can discuss current events and politics. You don't have to do it on a size acceptance site.



This. Those of you who know me might remember that I was a vocal opponent to the idea of Hyde Park from the day it was created.

Most of the Internet is mean and/or stupid, especially those parts of it that are made of audience participation. One of the best things about Dims is that it was mostly an exception to this rule.

"Grow a thicker skin," you say? I'd rather be having a pleasant time, and not need the thick skin. No masochism for me.

"Don't read it," you say? Try reading the forum using the "New Posts" button without wading through piles of Hyde Park crap.

I honestly can't understand those who say there's nothing else to do here without HP. If arguing and fighting are your favorite pastimes, I probably don't want to know you.

I don't want to come across like I'm flaming the entire forum here. (Probably too late, though.) And for the record, I'm very much in favor of any random topic of discussion, as long as it's _nice_. If a post makes work for a mod, then it's a "bad" post. (If that turns out to include this post, then I'll agree that I'm wrong too.)


----------



## butch

Just because I have to be part of any massive thread here at Dims, I'm posting in here. I won't miss HP, perhaps for two reasons-one, I live in DC, why the hell do I want to revisit the issues that surround me every day about politics and political affiliations and societal maladies, and two, I get paid, in part, for making arguments, and so why would I go looking for them during my leisure time? So, while I "feel your pain," HP lovahs, I can't say I'll miss HP. I do miss having interesting debates with some of you, but hopefully I'll get my fill when we have those epic debates about fat-related stuff, because that is why I'm here-for the fat. 

I used to kind of like HP, as I could find topics that didn't seem like the same old same old I could find on prime time FOX or MSNBC, but it feels more and more like that style of discourse is the only kind people enjoy today, and it doesn't do it for me. If more people behaved in HP like, for example, Keb or Miss Vickie, then HP would be a place we could still post in today. Maybe we should have a board where we submit topics to Keb and Miss Vickie, and they could hold a civil debate about it and post it for us to enjoy! That would be good reading. 
</IMG>


----------



## mossystate

Eeek. More name naming. People not liking Bio's name ( for example ) being mentioned, but, naming who was wonderful about HP, that's cool. *L* I have to say, there seems to be ugliness coming out all over...and I am not crushed that HP is gone, as I did not get into a majority of the threads. I am just thinking this is getting more and more interesting, and perhaps a little ' down the nose ', if ya know what I mean. Eeep.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

ataraxia said:


> This. Those of you who know me might remember that I was a vocal opponent to the idea of Hyde Park from the day it was created.
> 
> Most of the Internet is mean and/or stupid, especially those parts of it that are made of audience participation. One of the best things about Dims is that it was mostly an exception to this rule.
> 
> "Grow a thicker skin," you say? I'd rather be having a pleasant time, and not need the thick skin. No masochism for me.
> 
> "Don't read it," you say? Try reading the forum using the "New Posts" button without wading through piles of Hyde Park crap.
> 
> I honestly can't understand those who say there's nothing else to do here without HP. If arguing and fighting are your favorite pastimes, I probably don't want to know you.
> 
> I don't want to come across like I'm flaming the entire forum here. (Probably too late, though.) And for the record, I'm very much in favor of any random topic of discussion, as long as it's _nice_. If a post makes work for a mod, then it's a "bad" post. (If that turns out to include this post, then I'll agree that I'm wrong too.)



That's..."nice". Who reads the forum just by pressing the New Posts button, anyway? There's like, a dozen boards here.


----------



## Santaclear

Ekim said:


> That's..."nice". Who reads the forum just by pressing the New Posts button, anyway? There's like, a dozen boards here.



I read them that way, always have. I open the threads that look interesting and pass up the ones that don't.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

Santaclear said:


> I read them that way, always have. I open the threads that look interesting and pass up the ones that don't.



But they only cover about an hour a page! I'd lose my mind if I navigated the site that way...


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar

Carrie said:


> Interestingly, this was today's quote of the day on my iGoogle homepage:



Aah, Mr. Russell.

I would also say that Don Marquis summed it up a bit more pointedly: "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you, but if you REALLY make them think, they'll hate you."


----------



## Santaclear

Ekim said:


> But they only cover about an hour a page! I'd lose my mind if I navigated the site that way...



It works for me. One nice thing about it is it mixes all the forums. I don't pay attention much to which forum I'm on anyway. I just open according to whether the thread or last poster, say, seems interesting.


----------



## zosimos

Keb said:


> Hyde park was my favorite board. I come here for the resources, like the health board and the clothing board, but as a straight BBW with an interest in world events/politics, I feel like there's little left for me here without Hyde Park. I enjoyed the (usually) adult exchange of opinions, the chance to see how other people think, and the opportunity to talk about world events with an eye towards how they affect size issues--or don't. Hyde park is what kept me coming to Dimensions and made me feel like part of the community, since I'm not someone who wants to post seminude pics (sorry, but aside from the paysite board, there are at least three other boards that tend to have six or seven active pics threads going) and other than my personal experiences as a BBW has little to offer on the other boards.



I can really sympathize with keb's statement.

While I understand the reasons that HP was ixnayed, it does seem a little disturbing that the board was just summarily removed without any explanation or discussion. Perhaps there was a discussion that I missed? But to me it seems that HP was just dragged out of bed at 4AM, hauled down to the Lubyanka and shot.

Despite its sometimes carping and frivolous nature, an enormous amount of effort went into old HP, and the removal of such a mass of human thought and feeling cannot be anything but a detriment to and impoverishment of the site. Any time a venue for expression is lost, our community loses something. 

I'm reminded of some of my favorite bits of Milton's _Areopagitica_ (1644) - 

And again if it be true, that a wise man, like a good refiner, can gather gold out of the drossiest volume, and that a fool will be a fool with the best book, yea, or without any book; there is no reason that we should deprive a wise man of any advantage to his wisdom, while we seek to restrain from a fool that which being restrained will be no hindrance to his folly. 

I cannot praise a fugitive and cloistered virtue, unexercized and unbreathed, that never sallies out and sees her adversary, but slinks out of the race, where that immortal garland is to be run for, not without dust and heat. 

Banish all objects of lust, shut up all youth into the severest discipline that can be exercized in any hermitage, you cannot make them chaste that came to thither so. Suppose we could expel sin by this means; look how much we thus expel of sin, so much we expel of virtue.


----------



## mergirl

In the meantime if anyone needs to vent they can go here.
http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55175&highlight=blah

Though, the rules are you are not allowed to use sentences.


----------



## William

I think that if Dimensions was a pressure cooker then HP was the emergency steam release device! Hope there is not a explosion.

William






mergirl said:


> In the meantime if anyone needs to vent they can go here.
> http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55175&highlight=blah
> 
> Though, the rules are you are not allowed to use sentences.


----------



## mergirl

I think its more Dimensions is the cooker and the steam and HP was the pressure.


----------



## frankman

I really liked Hyde Park. I liked discussing stuff there, because although I am an FA, I don't think about fat/food/sex all the time. Nor am I nice all the time, and let's face it: digitally frisking people is fun only so many times. HydePark was a place away from the "what did you eat yesterday", "ur so sexy nekkid" and the "where do you buy clothes for size XYZ" threads. There's nothing wrong with those threads, but to me, HP was the one place where avatars and screen names became actual people, people who had opinions about stuff, and talked about "insert heated thread here", just like people I _know_. Some of the people I'd most like to meet in real life posted predominantly in HP. Some of those people vehemently disagreed with me, as I with them, but that doesn't matter.

Some of the people posted that they'd rather have a nice time, than wade through HP's threads. Although that's their rightful opinion, I disagree. I don't know any of you in real life, and if the only thing we get to talk about here is niceness, fatness and the occasional lolcat (however cool those are), the conversation becomes vapid and hollow.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Observer said:


> Those posters noting the real reason for placing Hyde Park on hiatus (as has been already noted, he forum and all its threads can still be viewed if you know how) are correct. It wasn't really due to bullies or moderator fatigue or any specific thread or post. *It was Conrad's concern over the constant negativity and impact upon normally rational people and relationships.*
> 
> This is Conrad's site, with a philosophy of letting people exercise civility and common sense - and moderators being told that they moderate best who moderate least. Hyde Park didn't begin with the initial objective of being a political forum and initially had no moderators. It became political and the tone led to the need "da rules" and assigned moderators. The moderators indeed did become, along with some community members, the target of "bullies." But it was the overall unfortunately negative tenor on both issues and towards fellow posters that was the real issue.
> 
> Making the assumption that we'll "never again" see politics or other non-fat related liberal arts topics (history, religion, social issues, etc) discussed here again is erroneous. Equally in error is the idea that we will have such an outlet or that such topics will be allowed to continue if they spring up elsewhere.
> 
> Back in post 235, which was only this morning (!) and we're up to 360 posts+, I extended the following invitation as part of a longer discussion:
> 
> 
> 
> Since then I've received some interesting and constructive replies. To those who have written thus far, thank you. Nothing at this point has been reduced to writing and likely won't be until month end. Still, I would like to again request input and suggestions via PM.



See, this is what I don't buy. Maybe there's some secret meeting going on that I'm not aware of where these alleged outcomes of busted relationships are layed on the table and analyzed, but I'm not aware of anything like this happening as a result of different political beliefs in HP. While I admit to maybe a person or two whom I've decided aren't my cup of tea, none of those infamous arrguments took place in HP or over politics. For the folks who participated there willingly there was nothing personal in opining that [insert political figure] is an idiot unless you use the word 'fat' in the missive. For the most part we'd gotten used to each other's trigger issues and it added to the character of the place. It was also a great way to have someone bring to the forfront an issue that one might not see or be aware of in their locality and be better informed. I'm a better person for having Miss Vickie here to give a local's perspective on Alaska politics, something I found invaluable. If anything this forum built more relationships that it took. I appreciate that some kind of fact gathering effort is taking place here for some kind of more sanitary version of HP but all this hand wringing and overreaching commentary on what HP supposedly was makes this whole process look like a bad joke and an insult to the intelligence of the people who liked it the way it was.


----------



## 1300 Class

I've had my fair share of stimulating debates in HP, and I often disagree with a lot of what is said for a variety of reasons. However, as far as I am concerned, what was said in HP, was kept in HP. I hoped that there was no ill-feeling levelled because of what was said there and leaked into the other parts of the board.


----------



## TraciJo67

Australian Lord said:


> I've had my fair share of stimulating debates in HP, and I often disagree with a lot of what is said for a variety of reasons. However, as far as I am concerned, what was said in HP, was kept in HP. I hoped that there was no ill-feeling levelled because of what was said there and leaked into the other parts of the board.



I can think of only one person who made comments that participation in HP led to hard feelings and a sense of disconnect from Dimensions. And while that person is entitled to that opinion, I've felt all along that those of us who venture into that area do so knowing full well that controversial issues are going to be debated. 

I've had many heated discussions at Dims, most of them contained to HP. Here's what my reality has been, though: A lot of the people that I disagree with -- some vehemently -- have contacted me privately to continue the discussion (or I have initiated the additional conversation, in some cases). We clarify, discuss further, sometimes even disagree in more colorful terms. The point is this, though: Most of the time, we reach a point of understanding. I've grown to like and respect these people, and I hope that they can say the same of me (and in some cases, I know that they do, because they tell me). I cannot say that my experience in HP has led to further alienation from others; it has been just the opposite. I do not allow myself to completely define a person based only on his/her political viewpoints, nor do I take things personally (at least, not for long). And Conrad, our own disagreements aside, I *know* that you feel this way, too. Whatever else I might say about you D), I will acknowledge this: You have a fairly high tolerance threshhold for divergent opinions, and how they are expressed. So what I'd like to know is this: Why are we catering to those with a low tolerance threshhold? Wouldn't it be easier for those who are extremely sensitive to just skip the HP experience altogether?


----------



## frankman

ataraxia said:


> This. Those of you who know me might remember that I was a vocal opponent to the idea of Hyde Park from the day it was created.
> 
> Most of the Internet is mean and/or stupid, especially those parts of it that are made of audience participation. One of the best things about Dims is that it was mostly an exception to this rule.
> 
> "Grow a thicker skin," you say? I'd rather be having a pleasant time, and not need the thick skin. No masochism for me.
> 
> "Don't read it," you say? Try reading the forum using the "New Posts" button without wading through piles of Hyde Park crap.
> 
> I honestly can't understand those who say there's nothing else to do here without HP. If arguing and fighting are your favorite pastimes, I probably don't want to know you.
> 
> I don't want to come across like I'm flaming the entire forum here. (Probably too late, though.) And for the record, I'm very much in favor of any random topic of discussion, as long as it's _nice_. If a post makes work for a mod, then it's a "bad" post. (If that turns out to include this post, then I'll agree that I'm wrong too.)



I am one of those people who has arguing as a hobby. That means you don't want to know me. That's fine, but don't think that what HydePark is removed for doesn't already happen in other threads. This one for instance.

Keeping things _just_ nice is kind of hard. See, if I want to read personal insult in your post, I could. Because in this rather "nice" post, you've just painted all people who like discussions with the funny-brush. "You can't understand them, you don't want to know them, they are not NICE, they post crap, it's like masochism." It's pithy and small to read posts like that, but I could. 
Thing is, nobody in HydePark did that, because they knew where they were, and they LIKED it. It's hard to be _just_ nice. Nice has nothing to say and no opinion. What your version of nice has though, is judgment. Not the kind the mods will edit out, just the kind saying "everything rubbing you the wrong way/inconveniencing you is wrong".

Like you said, most of the internet is stupid and mean. I don't care about the mean, but if all the stuff I think is stupid got removed from the net, there'd be like 1/1000th left. It's a good thing for a great many people I don't have that kind of power.

Shouting "good riddance" and veiling it with politeness is just as crappy.


----------



## LillyBBBW

frankman said:


> I am one of those people who has arguing as a hobby. That means you don't want to know me. That's fine, but don't think that what HydePark is removed for doesn't already happen in other threads. This one for instance.
> 
> Keeping things _just_ nice is kind of hard. See, if I want to read personal insult in your post, I could. Because in this rather "nice" post, you've just painted all people who like discussions with the funny-brush. "You can't understand them, you don't want to know them, they are not NICE, they post crap, it's like masochism." It's pithy and small to read posts like that, but I could.
> Thing is, nobody in HydePark did that, because they knew where they were, and they LIKED it. It's hard to be _just_ nice. Nice has nothing to say and no opinion. What your version of nice has though, is judgment. Not the kind the mods will edit out, just the kind saying "everything rubbing you the wrong way/inconveniencing you is wrong".
> 
> Like you said, most of the internet is stupid and mean. I don't care about the mean, but if all the stuff I think is stupid got removed from the net, there'd be like 1/1000th left. It's a good thing for a great many people I don't have that kind of power.
> 
> Shouting "good riddance" and veiling it with politeness is just as crappy.



Couldn't agree more.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

frankman said:


> Like you said, most of the internet is stupid and mean. I don't care about the mean, but if all the stuff I think is stupid got removed from the net, there'd be like 1/1000th left. It's a good thing for a great many people I don't have that kind of power.
> 
> Shouting "good riddance" and veiling it with politeness is just as crappy.



So very true.


----------



## JoyJoy

ataraxia said:


> "Don't read it," you say? Try reading the forum using the "New Posts" button without wading through piles of Hyde Park crap.


If you go to the main screen listing the forums before you click on "New Posts", and double click on the graphic next to the name of the forum you don't want to read, all posts from that forum will show as read and not appear on the "New Posts" list. This can be a really handy little trick. Just fyi.


----------



## Risible

zosimos said:


> I can really sympathize with keb's statement.
> 
> While I understand the reasons that HP was ixnayed, it does seem a little disturbing that the board was just summarily removed without any explanation or discussion. Perhaps there was a discussion that I missed? But to me it seems that HP was just dragged out of bed at 4AM, hauled down to the Lubyanka and shot.
> 
> Despite its sometimes carping and frivolous nature, an enormous amount of effort went into old HP, and the removal of such a mass of human thought and feeling cannot be anything but a detriment to and impoverishment of the site. Any time a venue for expression is lost, our community loses something...



HP is still available for viewing; it is closed to new postings. To reach it, just take a look at one of the posts you've made there.


----------



## LillyBBBW

It's 11:06 am and i want buffalo wings baadly and its all Ris's fault.


----------



## Observer

Ris is correct - you can also go to the Hyde Park forum directly by bookmarking this link:

http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=30

As for mid-day buffalo wings, see if your local Pizza Hut delivery service includes them - the ones in my area do.


----------



## Fyreflyintheskye

LillyBBBW said:


> It's 11:06 am and i want buffalo wings baadly and its all Ris's fault.



Is it legal to eat buffalo wings for elevensies? Do you have to wrap them in bacon and eggs to appear more brunch-like? 

FTR: Hyde Park in Mass is the place I was driving through where I almost got shot because I beeped at someone who tried backing into my moving car at mach50, so I won't miss it or the name one iota lol I don't respond well to being shown a weapon in traffic  I should have just rammed the mfer


----------



## SamanthaNY

Ekim said:


> But they only cover about an hour a page! I'd lose my mind if I navigated the site that way...


So much faster and easier - especially if you use NP almost exclusively. 


JoyJoy said:


> If you go to the main screen listing the forums before you click on "New Posts", and double click on the graphic next to the name of the forum you don't want to read, all posts from that forum will show as read and not appear on the "New Posts" list. This can be a really handy little trick. Just fyi.



Sweet paper jeezus! How did I never know of this handy trick?! Now I can get rid of the dang paysite posts!! Maybe the effing paysite banner ads (which annoyingly show up on New Posts searches) will go too!

Thank you, Joy! YOU are my favorite person today.


----------



## pumpkingrower

If you had a news event, political or otherwise wouldn't the lounge
be the place? It say's it is for off topic stuff.


----------



## frankman

Fyreflyintheskye said:


> Is it legal to eat buffalo wings for elevensies? Do you have to wrap them in bacon and eggs to appear more brunch-like?
> 
> FTR: Hyde Park in Mass is the place I was driving through where I almost got shot because I beeped at someone who tried backing into my moving car at mach50, so I won't miss it or the name one iota lol I don't respond well to being shown a weapon in traffic  I should have just rammed the mfer



The short length of this post and the amount of ROFLMAO I did are just disproportionate.:bow:

Why did I not know of the abbr. mfer? But NOW, NOW I KNOW!!! Muhahahaha! The rest of Dims is in so much trouble now.

And they can all blame you.


----------



## Observer

Another overlooked tip - the "new posts" screen is paged. 

It actually includes up to 500 threads for which you have not read the "most recent" post - these can go back for daya. This means you can click on subsequent pages if its been busy since your last visit. 

O - itinerant thread hijacker


----------



## Blackjack

Observer said:


> Another overlooked tip - the "new posts" screen is paged.
> 
> It actually includes up to 500 threads for which you have not read the "most recent" post - these can go back for daya. This means you can click on subsequent pages if its been busy since your last visit.
> 
> O - itinerant thread hijacker



After a vacation I'll regularly return to about 25 pages of new posts.

That's a bitch to get through, lemme tell ya.


----------



## JoyJoy

SamanthaNY said:


> So much faster and easier - especially if you use NP almost exclusively.
> 
> 
> Sweet paper jeezus! How did I never know of this handy trick?! Now I can get rid of the dang paysite posts!! Maybe the effing paysite banner ads (which annoyingly show up on New Posts searches) will go too!
> 
> Thank you, Joy! YOU are my favorite person today.


You can thank Blackjack...he turned me onto it when I was complaining about the paysite banner awhile back. And yes..it does make the banners go away, although with the frequency of posting on the paysite board, it can get annoying to have to repeat the process numerous times while catching up. 

Glad to help!


----------



## vaio

Smushygirl said:


> Oh, FFS!!! What am I gonna do now?!!! I loved Hyde Park!


The site had to respond to pressure from above to limit the outrageous exercise of free speech. Funny there has been no explanation of the removal of Hyde Park. Or was there one? Perhaps it will just go down the memory hole. "Mommy did there ever use to be a Hyde Park? No dear, ...it was an Al Qaeda Front.


----------



## Blackjack

vaio said:


> The site had to respond to pressure from above to limit the outrageous exercise of free speech. Funny there has been no explanation of the removal of Hyde Park. Or was there one? Perhaps it will just go down the memory hole. "Mommy did there ever use to be a Hyde Park? No dear, ...it was an Al Qaeda Front.


----------



## Observer

Valo, yes it was explained, post #128 of this thread



> I've thought about the whole HP situation a lot. It's been said that whenever people get together in a friendly community they will want to talk about whatever is on their minds. Apparently politics is on their minds a lot. *Unfortunately, apart from offering depressing evidence that civil discussion seems a dying art, the real damage is that people who come here because of shared passions become enemies over different political views*. That is a very bad and utterly undesirable thing. The anger and bitterness people develop over this is simply not worth it. *So for now I pulled the switch*.



This obviously wasn't true of every thread and every post - but there was a pattern. Every mod here, those who favor civil discussion and those who really wish we could keep things here "SA only," knew it. . 

In proportion to both participation and the overall mission of Dimensions it was consuming more time (and adrenalin) than any other portion of the site. The timing of the axe falling was unexpected - the action itself was not.


----------



## Mathias

SamanthaNY said:


> So much faster and easier - especially if you use NP almost exclusively.
> 
> 
> Sweet paper jeezus! How did I never know of this handy trick?! Now I can get rid of the dang paysite posts!! Maybe the effing paysite banner ads (which annoyingly show up on New Posts searches) will go too!
> 
> Thank you, Joy! YOU are my favorite person today.



Do you have firefox? There's addons you can install to block them.


----------



## mango

LillyBBBW said:


> I don't see what Keb said as being any more ignorant than the things others have said or implied about hyde park and the kinds of people who mostly post there. HP is seen that way because it doesn't appeal to them so they're not going to get it. I think the bottom line is that the picture threads and more fat discussion doesn't appeal to Keb. They don't really appeal to me all that much either. I've tossed in once or twice but those threads get old quickly. HP was where my mind was truly enganged among friends I know and whose opinions I value even though we disagree. I loved that board and now it's gone. To some people that's funny but still to us it's a loss. A major loss.





LillyBBBW said:


> See, this is what I don't buy. Maybe there's some secret meeting going on that I'm not aware of where these alleged outcomes of busted relationships are layed on the table and analyzed, but I'm not aware of anything like this happening as a result of different political beliefs in HP. While I admit to maybe a person or two whom I've decided aren't my cup of tea, none of those infamous arrguments took place in HP or over politics. For the folks who participated there willingly there was nothing personal in opining that [insert political figure] is an idiot unless you use the word 'fat' in the missive. For the most part we'd gotten used to each other's trigger issues and it added to the character of the place. It was also a great way to have someone bring to the forfront an issue that one might not see or be aware of in their locality and be better informed. I'm a better person for having Miss Vickie here to give a local's perspective on Alaska politics, something I found invaluable. If anything this forum built more relationships that it took. I appreciate that some kind of fact gathering effort is taking place here for some kind of more sanitary version of HP but all this hand wringing and overreaching commentary on what HP supposedly was makes this whole process look like a bad joke and an insult to the intelligence of the people who liked it the way it was.



*You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to LillyBBBW again.

*


----------



## exile in thighville

BBWTexan said:


> I'd hate to think that would change simply because of my political beliefs or theirs. We have so much to offer one another in this community that it would be a shame to let it all go to pot just because we don't like how someone votes.



i'm not sure "worldview" and "politics" are the same thing. how someone votes reflects on their person; i wouldn't willingly fraternize per se with someone i know is against gay marriage, which i interpret as unquestionable homophobia and up there with anti-semitism and racism. to me it would be like being against black marriage. people consider certain things to be "political beliefs" while others just live their lives. if a girl has an abortion, as is her legal right (for now), there would people who would avoid her just the same.


----------



## exile in thighville

vaio said:


> The site had to respond to pressure from above to limit the outrageous exercise of free speech. Funny there has been no explanation of the removal of Hyde Park. Or was there one? Perhaps it will just go down the memory hole. "Mommy did there ever use to be a Hyde Park? No dear, ...it was an Al Qaeda Front.



omg best new boarder


----------



## JoyJoy

LillyBBBW said:


> See, this is what I don't buy. Maybe there's some secret meeting going on that I'm not aware of where these alleged outcomes of busted relationships are layed on the table and analyzed, but I'm not aware of anything like this happening as a result of different political beliefs in HP. While I admit to maybe a person or two whom I've decided aren't my cup of tea, none of those infamous arrguments took place in HP or over politics. For the folks who participated there willingly there was nothing personal in opining that [insert political figure] is an idiot unless you use the word 'fat' in the missive. For the most part we'd gotten used to each other's trigger issues and it added to the character of the place. It was also a great way to have someone bring to the forfront an issue that one might not see or be aware of in their locality and be better informed. I'm a better person for having Miss Vickie here to give a local's perspective on Alaska politics, something I found invaluable. If anything this forum built more relationships that it took. I appreciate that some kind of fact gathering effort is taking place here for some kind of more sanitary version of HP but all this hand wringing and overreaching commentary on what HP supposedly was makes this whole process look like a bad joke and an insult to the intelligence of the people who liked it the way it was.



Before I started posting in HP, I shied away from politics or hot-button issues because I didn't really know how or have the confidence to debate effectively. I grew as a person because of HP, because it gave me an outlet I was comfortable with to learn how to express myself better and not run and hide when someone disagrees with me. Sure, there were definitely people who posted there I didn't like, but the experience of interacting with them or reading what they had to say also helped me learn how to deal with such people in real-life, and helped me be more open-minded. In some cases, it also helped pinpoint people I wouldn't want to interact with elsewhere, which can be useful knowledge, in some cases. 

I could go on, but you get the idea. HP did have a lot of negativity, but it also held benefit for those of us who chose to slog through the bs.


----------



## SamanthaNY

I'm a bit confused by the apparent concern over people and their friendships (???). I guess that's nice to be concerned for people - but it seems nanny-ish to impose on their relationships (and if that's the case, then let's work on getting the married douches out of chat) as if they need a guardian. As Lily mentioned, I'm also confused by the moaning over people leaving because Hyde Park was so awful. I'm not aware that anyone actually left for that reason, but even if they did... why isn't there equal concern about people who will leave now (probably a much greater number), because Hyde was unceremoniously removed? Or are those the ones we don't care to keep. 

I can understand nuking Hyde because it was fucking annoying to deal with. But these claims that it was done out of care for 'the people', or for *our* benefit just don't wash. If that's indeed true, then I find that way more disturbing than a board being yanked without explanation (and yes - I realize an explanation - of sorts - came.... but far after the fact).


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar

vaio said:


> The site had to respond to pressure from above to limit the outrageous exercise of free speech. Funny there has been no explanation of the removal of Hyde Park. Or was there one? Perhaps it will just go down the memory hole. "Mommy did there ever use to be a Hyde Park? No dear, ...it was an Al Qaeda Front.


Vaio, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?


----------



## Jack Skellington

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> Vaio, have you ever been in a Turkish prison?



Do you like movies about gladiators?


----------



## exile in thighville

SamanthaNY said:


> I'm a bit confused by the apparent concern over people and their friendships (???). I guess that's nice to be concerned for people - but it seems nanny-ish to impose on their relationships (and if that's the case, then let's work on getting the married douches out of chat) as if they need a guardian. As Lily mentioned, I'm also confused by the moaning over people leaving because Hyde Park was so awful. I'm not aware that anyone actually left for that reason, but even if they did... why isn't there equal concern about people who will leave now (probably a much greater number), because Hyde was unceremoniously removed? Or are those the ones we don't care to keep.
> 
> I can understand nuking Hyde because it was fucking annoying to deal with. But these claims that it was done out of care for 'the people', or for *our* benefit just don't wash. If that's indeed true, then I find that way more disturbing than a board being yanked without explanation (and yes - I realize an explanation - of sorts - came.... but far after the fact).



i can't rep you


----------



## Les Toil

So excuse me for not having read all 4 thousand posts in this thread, but can someone tell me if I'm allowed to discuss such topics as the Middle East or how Obama's the Muslamic anti-Christ in _The Lounge_--or are political topics banned from Dims completely?


----------



## exile in thighville

they're banned for the time being. it's not what board it's in, the mods want a break.

lol muslamic


----------



## Mathias

SamanthaNY said:


> I'm a bit confused by the apparent concern over people and their friendships (???). I guess that's nice to be concerned for people - but it seems nanny-ish to impose on their relationships (and if that's the case, then let's work on getting the married douches out of chat) as if they need a guardian. As Lily mentioned, I'm also confused by the moaning over people leaving because Hyde Park was so awful. I'm not aware that anyone actually left for that reason, but even if they did... why isn't there equal concern about people who will leave now (probably a much greater number), because Hyde was unceremoniously removed? Or are those the ones we don't care to keep.
> 
> I can understand nuking Hyde because it was fucking annoying to deal with. But these claims that it was done out of care for 'the people', or for *our* benefit just don't wash. If that's indeed true, then I find that way more disturbing than a board being yanked without explanation (and yes - I realize an explanation - of sorts - came.... but far after the fact).



I owe you some rep for this.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

I think everyone who disagrees with the decision to close HP is entitled to a full 100% unconditional and immediate cash refund on their HP membership from day 1. Sorry, Conrad, but I just feel that strongly about it! 

Srsly, this is one of the most vibrant and robust special interest communities I'm aware of anywhere on teh interwebs. Not to discount the value of everyone's participation, especially the mods, but Dims got where it is thanks largely <npi> to Conrad's leadership and commitment. If you're determined to question his judgment re shuttering Hyde Park I hope you won't feel it unfair to ask that you do so in the context of his results to date. Even _if_ the decision is wrong he's damn well earned the right to make it. JMO. :bow:

So kvetch all you want but if you can't find a little gratitude for how long HP was allowed to consume resources you paid nothing for please excuse my lack of sympathy.

And just for the record, always muchos gracias for this place, Chief. "Difficult decisions are the privileges of rank." ~ Richard Burton's character in _Where Eagles Dare_.

(and I still think we need a salute emoticon. )


----------



## LillyBBBW

Oh this reminds me! I've got a great idea for a new picture thread. It's called "Show us your fat finger." I've got a nice one I'm just dying to put up.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

While I get the point that you're trying to make, there are those of us who DO donate (pay) to Dimensions. Granted my $30 a year donation is probably only a drop in the bucket when it comes to the costs to keep this place running it should be counted as valuable all the same.

There isn't anyway that political discussions will be able to be kept out of Dimensions. We have far too many people that post here who are keenly interested and enjoy discussing politics and world news. To try to keep Dims sans politics in my opinion would be even more of a time suck for the Mods than just policing Hyde Park already was. 

There's a happy middle somewhere, its just going to take some time to figure it out. 





Ernest Nagel said:


> I think everyone who disagrees with the decision to close HP is entitled to a full 100% unconditional and immediate cash refund on their HP membership from day 1. Sorry, Conrad, but I just feel that strongly about it!
> 
> Srsly, this is one of the most vibrant and robust special interest communities I'm aware of anywhere on teh interwebs. Not to discount the value of everyone's participation, especially the mods, but Dims got where it is thanks largely <npi> to Conrad's leadership and commitment. If you're determined to question his judgment re shuttering Hyde Park I hope you won't feel it unfair to ask that you do so in the context of his results to date. Even _if_ the decision is wrong he's damn well earned the right to make it. JMO. :bow:
> 
> So kvetch all you want but if you can't find a little gratitude for how long HP was allowed to consume resources you paid nothing for please excuse my lack of sympathy.
> 
> And just for the record, always muchos gracias for this place, Chief. "Difficult decisions are the privileges of rank." ~ Richard Burton's character in _Where Eagles Dare_.
> 
> (and I still think we need a salute emoticon. )


----------



## Ample Pie

I'm pretty sure this thread proves that people are capable of in depth, even heated, discussion on a board other than HP.


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar

Rebecca said:


> I'm pretty sure this thread proves that people are capable of in depth, even heated, discussion on a board other than HP.


Well, there's always someone wrong on the Internet, and it's our jobs to make sure they answer for it!


----------



## JoyJoy

Ella Bella said:


> There isn't anyway that political discussions will be able to be kept out of Dimensions. We have far too many people that post here who are keenly interested and enjoy discussing politics and world news. To try to keep Dims sans politics in my opinion would be even more of a time suck for the Mods than just policing Hyde Park already was.
> 
> There's a happy middle somewhere, its just going to take some time to figure it out.


 I agree, especially given the fact that one of the big reasons (if I recall correctly) for creating HP in the first place was because there was a problem with posting of political issues in other areas. One has to wonder how many of the people who complained about the negativity of HP were some of the same ones complaining before its creation about the political threads gumming up the works. At least in HP it was all in a neat little box that you didn't have to open unless you wanted to.


----------



## Jane

JoyJoy said:


> I agree, especially given the fact that one of the big reasons (if I recall correctly) for creating HP in the first place was because there was a problem with posting of political issues in other areas.



Yeah, yeah, so what if there was (putting up my dukes). 



JoyJoy said:


> One has to wonder how many of the people who complained about the negativity of HP were some of the same ones complaining before its creation about the political threads gumming up the works. At least in HP it was all in a neat little box that you didn't have to open unless you wanted to.



And b) So, how come they were going to Hyde Park, just to have a reason to complain? (You know, I think I've got it....)

Joy, I'm so glad that you wrote about learning how to enjoy debating in Hyde Park.

Quite frankly, often fat women are ignored when it comes to political discussions, because, after all, what could we possibly know about politics. HP was a great place for learning to debate. People couldn't REALLY get in your face. You could always turn off the computer and walk away, think it over, come back and reply. That's hard to do in real life (especially when I've already deployed my 2x4).


----------



## Sandie S-R

pumpkingrower said:


> If you had a news event, political or otherwise wouldn't the lounge
> be the place? It say's it is for off topic stuff.



An innocuous news event, would likely be fine. Anything political (especially if it has any potential whatsoever of the least little bit of contention) will pretty much get axed. 

/Moderator


----------



## Your Plump Princess

I am Sad Hyde Park is gone.
Now All the people from there who pissed me off, will just start spouting their nonsense in threads that stood a chance of being enjoyable before.


----------



## Sandie S-R

Les Toil said:


> So excuse me for not having read all 4 thousand posts in this thread, but can someone tell me if I'm allowed to discuss such topics as the Middle East or how Obama's the Muslamic anti-Christ in _The Lounge_--or are political topics banned from Dims completely?





exile in thighville said:


> they're banned for the time being. it's not what board it's in, the mods want a break.
> 
> lol muslamic




This is not about the mods wanting a break, although we're not complaining about not getting so much flack from posters who we warn or infract. 

Conrad has clearly stated that there are plenty of places on the internets where you can discuss contentious political issues. Dimensions (regardless of forum) is not one of them.

Les, as I stated to someone else ...

An innocuous news event, would likely be fine in the Lounge. Anything political (especially if it has any potential whatsoever of the least little bit of contention) will pretty much get axed.


----------



## exile in thighville

basically anything worth talking about


----------



## TallFatSue

Les Toil said:


> can someone tell me if I'm allowed to discuss such topics as the Middle East


Middle East? Who cares? Everyone knows the biggest and best SSBBW are right here in the *Midwest*. 

Sue (= wise ass)

I can be a real wise ass, and given the size of my ass, I must be loaded with wisdom.


----------



## 1300 Class

> I can be a real wise ass, and given the size of my ass, I must be loaded with wisdom.


So its win win for all involved?


----------



## GenericGeek

Keb said:


> Maybe there could be a place for politics with a different approach. Hyde park was "Bring your own soapbox", say what you please--at least on the surface. Perhaps a debate board or a world events board would be better.



Quelle dommage. If Hyde Park is indeed gone for good, let me say that I, too, often found it aggravating and tiresome -- but I returned time & again, for the intellectual stimulation I found there. I'll miss the place, like I miss the college coffeehouse where you could hang out for hours on end.

But alas, nothing lasts forever. So it goes.


----------



## GenericGeek

Australian Lord said:


> No more Dims-political-wank-syndrome (DPWS) anymore..
> 
> 
> 
> -> an end to it now!



Sorry, AL, can't rep you for the "wanker" animated GIF. It's a beaut, mate!


----------



## Mack27

Ouch. I was going to get all indignant and stuff. I'm still hanging out in there, repping people for 3 year old posts!


----------



## moore2me

My computer has been in the shop for a week of repairs & when I checked back into DIMS, I couldn't find Hyde Park. Finally, I found this thread that explained why Conrad decided to close the site down. 

Keb explained how I feel very eloquently in her post #78. I will miss discussing hot topics and trading barbs with other DIMMERS. And I tried to interact with most of the other boards, but I feel Hyde Park was a big draw for me.

As to the new rule about "No Politics" discussed/argued on other sites, I have some questions/comments:



*How about threads that have politics and other issues tightly meshed together? * An example is the new swine flu outbreak in Mexico. Sure, the discussion would be started in the Health Forum. But. sooner or later the influence/ negative impact of the Mexican government and actions taken/or ignored by neighboring countries will become a part of the story;


Or we are taking about shoe fashions in the Clothing Forum and the conversation turns toward the Chinese government? Are they abusing workers to keep us supplied with flip flops? How are the workers in a Canton factory treated?


Or, I go into my yearly praise of the wonderful strawberry harvest in town in the Foodee Boards . Then the subject of the Mexican laborers, who pick the berries, comes up and an argument breaks out about using workers from south of the border to pick American crops; and finally . . .


 How can we discuss the disguisting work of the Mississippi legislature in banning fat people from pubic restaurants?

I can think of others, but, let's just say that politics enters into some major areas of my world. Now, am I gagged from bringing the truth up?


----------



## frankman

moore2me said:


> ***SNIP***
> 
> As to the new rule about "No Politics" discussed/argued on other sites, I have some questions/comments:
> 
> ***SNIP***
> 
> 
> How can we discuss the disguisting work of the Mississippi legislature in *banning fat people from pubic restaurants*?
> 
> I can think of others, but, let's just say that politics enters into some major areas of my world. Now, am I gagged from bringing the truth up?



First of al, the bolded part of your post was awesome. Second of all, to answer your post: yes.

Actually, you may bring up anything you like, as long as you stay on topic. 

You are just not allowed to disagree with anyone.


----------



## TraciJo67

frankman said:


> First of al, the bolded part of your post was awesome. Second of all, to answer your post: yes.
> 
> Actually, you may bring up anything you like, as long as you stay on topic.
> 
> You are just not allowed to disagree with anyone.



I disagree.


----------



## frankman

TraciJo67 said:


> I disagree.



You may not.


----------



## Wayne_Zitkus

moore2me said:


> How can we discuss the disguisting work of the Mississippi legislature in banning fat people from public restaurants?


I think that can be safely discussed on the Main Discussion Board, since it is a fat-related issue.

(PS - I fixed your typo before I quoted you.)


----------



## moore2me

frankman said:


> Second of all, to answer your post: yes.
> 
> Actually, you may bring up anything you like, as long as you stay on topic.
> 
> You are just not allowed to disagree with anyone.



*So according to your interpretation frankman, we can talk politics if we stay on the topic of the Board? 

For example 
- Talking about bad government (fat legislation on the Main Board); 
- More bad government, if homosexuals should be allowed to marry (on the brand new GLBTQ board); 
-International bad government such as the famine and deaths in Darfur due to despots and bandits (on the Foodee Board).*

*AND

- We cannot disagree with previous posters?*

*Please excuse ignorant self, but I must ask (the devil's in the details) . . .
1. What if the previous poster is wrong? 
2. What if the previous poster is making a dangerous or potentially illegal mistake?
3. What if the situation is different in my "neck of the woods" ? (for example someone in the sexuality board said a woman should be stoned to death for adultery?)
*



Wayne_Zitkus said:


> [/LIST]I think that *[banning fatties from public restaurants in MS] *can be safely discussed on the Main Discussion Board, since it is a fat-related issue.
> 
> (PS - I fixed your typo before I quoted you.)


*Thank you Wayne.*


----------



## frankman

moore2me said:


> *So according to your interpretation frankman, we can talk politics if we stay on the topic of the Board?
> 
> For example
> - Talking about bad government (fat legislation on the Main Board);
> - More bad government, if homosexuals should be allowed to marry (on the brand new GLBTQ board);
> -International bad government such as the famine and deaths in Darfur due to despots and bandits (on the Foodee Board).*
> 
> *AND
> 
> - We cannot disagree with previous posters?*
> 
> *Please excuse ignorant self, but I must ask (the devil's in the details) . . .
> 1. What if the previous poster is wrong?
> 2. What if the previous poster is making a dangerous or potentially illegal mistake?
> 3. What if the situation is different in my "neck of the woods" ? (for example someone in the sexuality board said a woman should be stoned to death for adultery?)
> *



I apologize: obviously, not disagreeing was a hyperbole. You're alowed to disagree. You can give your opinion, but you cannot use the words "you're wrong". You get warned pretty damn fast if you make a real judgment call about someone's post. even when the post sucks.

There are a lot of exceptions. If the origal post is about sticking metal objects into sockets for instance, you're entitled to give a warning. BUT, if someone says they like the jolt, there is actually little you can do but be understanding, or not understanding but supportive nonetheless. It's about respect. Love. Puppies. 

Even if a poster is saying some retarded stuff, or insulting groups of people while trying to make a different point, the lesson is to trust the mods, and don't be a vigilante. even if you are upset. Upset-ness is exactly the negative energy that got HydePark taken away.

Bottomline: you can say whatever you want, when you want and where you want, but if you do, read your post twice. If anything in your post could be considered as "snarky", try again or desist.


----------



## BarbBBW

I really like that you CAN NOT disagree in here. It feels so safe!! :wubu:


----------



## mossystate

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand...somewhere in the middle is where the truth is flailing around.

That certainly was...dramatic,


----------



## TraciJo67

frankman said:


> You may not.



I very snarkily disagree.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

frankman said:


> I apologize: obviously, not disagreeing was a hyperbole. You're alowed to disagree. You can give your opinion, but you cannot use the words "you're wrong". You get warned pretty damn fast if you make a real judgment call about someone's post. even when the post sucks.
> 
> There are a lot of exceptions. If the origal post is about sticking metal objects into sockets for instance, you're entitled to give a warning. BUT, if someone says they like the jolt, there is actually little you can do but be understanding, or not understanding but supportive nonetheless. It's about respect. Love. Puppies.
> 
> Even if a poster is saying some retarded stuff, or insulting groups of people while trying to make a different point, the lesson is to trust the mods, and don't be a vigilante. even if you are upset. Upset-ness is exactly the negative energy that got HydePark taken away.
> 
> Bottomline: you can say whatever you want, when you want and where you want, but if you do, read your post twice. If anything in your post could be considered as "snarky", try again or desist.



Please tell me there's a "j/k" that's supposed to go at the end of all of that.


----------



## LillyBBBW

frankman said:


> I apologize: obviously, not disagreeing was a hyperbole. You're alowed to disagree. You can give your opinion, but you cannot use the words "you're wrong". You get warned pretty damn fast if you make a real judgment call about someone's post. even when the post sucks.
> 
> There are a lot of exceptions. If the origal post is about sticking metal objects into sockets for instance, you're entitled to give a warning. BUT, if someone says they like the jolt, there is actually little you can do but be understanding, or not understanding but supportive nonetheless. It's about respect. Love. Puppies.
> 
> Even if a poster is saying some retarded stuff, or insulting groups of people while trying to make a different point, the lesson is to trust the mods, and don't be a vigilante. even if you are upset. Upset-ness is exactly the negative energy that got HydePark taken away.
> 
> Bottomline: you can say whatever you want, when you want and where you want, but if you do, read your post twice. If anything in your post could be considered as "snarky", try again or desist.



I'm going to have to disagree with this overly sensitive analysis of the way things work around here. It is always the people who smear every civil conversation with human feces who scream "free speech" or claim we're all a bunch of weak sissy PC poopyheads when we don't want to hear it. Common rules of engagement taught to children even as young as 7 months old was the only expectation. This constant drama over the issue is tedious. Here's a thought. Ineptitude is not the number one reason people refuse to look after their sister's bad assed kids. It's because the little shits are annoying, don't behave and not a damned thing gets accomplished when they're around no matter how smart they are.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

LillyBBBW said:


> I'm going to have to disagree with this overly sensitive analysis of the way things work around here. It is always the people who smear every civil conversation with human feces who scream "free speech" or claim we're all a bunch of weak sissy PC poopyheads when we don't want to hear it. Common rules of engagement taught to children even as young as 7 months old was the only expectation. This constant drama over the issue is tedious. Here's a thought. Ineptitude is not the number one reason people refuse to look after their sister's bad assed kids. It's because the little shits are annoying, don't behave and not a damned thing gets accomplished when they're around no matter how smart they are.



...And while I agree with you on principle, who exactly the "little shits" are in this situation is a pretty darn subjective thing. For example, there have been people who've posted in the Weight & Paysite boards who I thought were a lot more inappropriate in their posts then even the most annoying people on Hyde Park. Either sweep 'em all out or let them all have their say, but the strict standards that were placed in Hyde Park really isn't a justification for comparing people to misbehaving children just because they started some heated arguments in a board created to house them.


----------



## LillyBBBW

Ekim said:


> ...And while I agree with you on principle, who exactly the "little shits" are in this situation is a pretty darn subjective thing. For example, there have been people who've posted in the Weight & Paysite boards who I thought were a lot more inappropriate in their posts then even the most annoying people on Hyde Park. Either sweep 'em all out or let them all have their say, but the strict standards that were placed in Hyde Park really isn't a justification for comparing people to misbehaving children just because they started some heated arguments in a board created to house them.



We're speaking specifically about HP so I can't and won't comment on what goes on in the paysite board or weight board. It seems straight forward to me though that if one makes a claim in HP that the oceans are blue it would be okay for a person to disagree and post technical reasons why. To do so in a manner that is inflammatory and resembles a personal attack would not be okay. Folks who consistently respond with barbs and jabs are what I'm referring to as little shits. That stuff muddys the waters of intelligent discourse and creates a hostile environment for people who would like to participate but don't want to be bullied. The idea that everybody else just needs to grow a thicker skin to accomodate this base behavior is childish in my opinion.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

LillyBBBW said:


> We're speaking specifically about HP so I can't and won't comment on what goes on in the paysite board or weight board. It seems straight forward to me though that if one makes a claim in HP that the oceans are blue it would be okay for a person to disagree and post technical reasons why. To do so in a manner that is inflammatory and resembles a personal attack would not be okay. Folks who consistently respond with barbs and jabs are what I'm referring to as little shits. That stuff muddys the waters of intelligent discourse and creates a hostile environment for people who would like to participate but don't want to be bullied. The idea that everybody else just needs to grow a thicker skin to accomodate this base behavior is childish in my opinion.



What I'm just saying is that there's no objective way to determine that. What you may see as edgy jokes from a friend would be seen as "barbs and jabs" by someone who doesn't know that person very well. There were a lot of people who've posted way more then me in HP and other boards (and I assume are more socially-connected around here then me) who acted quite out of hand in several threads in HP but didn't get called on it presumably since people who "knew them" here just dismissed this as being "their personality". It's just about the definition of a double-standard.


----------



## TraciJo67

LillyBBBW said:


> We're speaking specifically about HP so I can't and won't comment on what goes on in the paysite board or weight board. It seems straight forward to me though that if one makes a claim in HP that the oceans are blue it would be okay for a person to disagree and post technical reasons why. To do so in a manner that is inflammatory and resembles a personal attack would not be okay. Folks who consistently respond with barbs and jabs are what I'm referring to as little shits. That stuff muddys the waters of intelligent discourse and creates a hostile environment for people who would like to participate but don't want to be bullied. The idea that everybody else just needs to grow a thicker skin to accomodate this base behavior is childish in my opinion.



This isn't a forum for face-to-face conversations, in which reasonable people can sit down and discuss issues over a cuppa joe. We can't see each other's intent. We don't have access to non-verbal cues to help us in establishing what someone else means. The written word, in absence of any kind of softening cues inherent in a pattern of speech, can be very tricky when discerning meaning. That doesn't mean that we all get a free pass to behave like jerks. But it does open the field up to questions. For example, I could say that what you wrote above was a clever way of demeaning a group of people that you just don't like. That's how it reads to me, at least in part. Is that bullying behavior? It's all subjective, isn't it? 

I've been infracted before for "personal attack" when none was meant, and I felt that objectively speaking, none could be discerned, either. I'm not trying to justify myself. In retrospect, I do understand that the intent behind my own words isn't always clear (and in some volatile threads, we post at our own risk). What I am saying is that people interpret different things, differently. What seems very simple and straightforward to you can seem like anything but, for others.


----------



## Sandie S-R

LillyBBBW said:


> We're speaking specifically about HP so I can't and won't comment on what goes on in the paysite board or weight board. It seems straight forward to me though that if one makes a claim in HP that the oceans are blue it would be okay for a person to disagree and post technical reasons why. To do so in a manner that is inflammatory and resembles a personal attack would not be okay. Folks who consistently respond with barbs and jabs are what I'm referring to as little shits. That stuff muddys the waters of intelligent discourse and creates a hostile environment for people who would like to participate but don't want to be bullied. The idea that everybody else just needs to grow a thicker skin to accomodate this base behavior is childish in my opinion.




Lilly,

Dead. Right. On. 

This was always the problem with HP. We had no problem with people disagreeing with each other and debating any and all points (even in a heated or passionate manner). What would usually get someone a warning or infraction? Calling the person you were debating with a "fucking arse" (or worse) because they believed differently than you. 

No one seems to understand that if they refrained from name calling and showed tollerance for others opinions, religions and political affiliations, there would have been no infractions, warnings or bannings.


----------



## Mathias

Sandie S-R said:


> Lilly,
> 
> Dead. Right. On.
> 
> This was always the problem with HP. We had no problem with people disagreeing with each other and debating any and all points (even in a heated or passionate manner). What would usually get someone a warning or infraction? Calling the person you were debating with a "fucking arse" (or worse) because they believed differently than you.
> 
> No one seems to understand that if they refrained from name calling and showed tollerance for others opinions, religions and political affiliations, there would have been no infractions, warnings or bannings.



If you don't mind my asking, why not just ban the repeat offenders after they've been warned?


----------



## Miss Vickie

Sandie S-R said:


> No one seems to understand that if they refrained from name calling and showed tollerance for others opinions, religions and political affiliations, there would have been no infractions, warnings or bannings.



Actually, lots of us understand that, Sandie. I've only been infracted once, and it was years and years ago, early in HP's existence. Ironically, I hadn't meant to be insulting but reading what I wrote in retrospect I understand that it was seen that way. My bad.

Anyhow, I wanted you to know that it's not quite fair to say that "no one" gets it. Most of us do, which is why the majority of us who posted appropriately in HP are sad that it's gone.


----------



## Sandie S-R

Miss Vickie said:


> Actually, lots of us understand that, Sandie. I've only been infracted once, and it was years and years ago, early in HP's existence. Ironically, I hadn't meant to be insulting but reading what I wrote in retrospect I understand that it was seen that way. My bad.
> 
> Anyhow, I wanted you to know that it's not quite fair to say that "no one" gets it. Most of us do, which is why the majority of us who posted appropriately in HP are sad that it's gone.



Sorry, Vick...

I do realize that many did get it and played by the rules. But there enough that didn't that it made things very difficult for everyone in HP. 

I didn't mean to suggest that everyone that posted in HP was an offender...just a goodly bunch of them.


----------



## Sandie S-R

Mathias said:


> If you don't mind my asking, why not just ban the repeat offenders after they've been warned?



Because we hoped that after warning someone for bad behavior and pointing out what they had done wrong that they would see the error and make an attempt to play by the rules. Unfortunately that didn't often happen. 

And, in extreme cases, some actually were banned from posting in HP, and some were actually banned from the entire Dimensions site.


----------



## mergirl

Sandie S-R said:


> Because we hoped that after warning someone for bad behavior and pointing out what they had done wrong that they would see the error and make an attempt to play by the rules. Unfortunately that didn't often happen.
> 
> And, in extreme cases, some actually were banned from posting in HP, and some were actually banned from the entire Dimensions site.


Yeah a couple of times people got angry because someone posted very homophobic rants, anti gay marrage (of course) but also pretty horrific stuff about god and hellfire and comparing gay people to pedophiles and it was scary and sickening and they got banned. Oh, not the homophobes of course!


----------



## BarbBBW

I have to say, I am not into any disagreements or arguing at all,... but this thread is just amazing,.. its like the "Daily News" section with all the advertisements cut out. Just all the amazing issues that intrigue ! So many idea's,discussions, different points of views! Just Fabulous


----------



## Spanky

What this thread needs is MORE HAGGIS. 

View attachment haggis.jpg


----------



## mergirl

OMG!! That haggis looks so disgusting! Its usually white when its cooked in sheeps stomach.. weird. 
I eat the veggi one now.. less hairs!!


----------



## Spanky

mergirl said:


> OMG!! That haggis looks so disgusting! Its usually white when its cooked in sheeps stomach.. weird.
> I eat the veggi one now.. less hairs!!



Are the veggi ones cooked in a sheep's stomach or a pumpkin or some veggie stomach? Do carrots have stomachs by the way?

Anyways, the sheeps, they is fightin back.  

View attachment sheep fighting back.jpg


----------



## frankman

Yeah, so I just want to apologize for that intensly whiney post. I was feeling raw because my post got deleted, and I was tired. I actually fell asleep behind the computer and was too late to edit the horrid thing (That fact alone gave me some perspective on the whole debacle...).

So I'm sorry and to use Nick's words (from the fantastic Nick and Norah's infinite playlist): "Eh, that's not even real..."

So what I meant to say was:
More pics of nasty looking food?


----------



## Rosie

Please bring it back. It was the only interesting board here.


----------



## mergirl

I think it should be a private board for people who 'can take it' and it should be called 'hide park'!!  You would have to pay a fee to join though, which would go towards paying your therapy bill when, invariabley you go mental.


----------



## prickly

.........what was the problem? i read something about bullies. so what, it's the fucking internet. get over it and read something else. 

us bullies liked hp. i enjoyed everyone shouting at each other, all at once.

sincerely (*snort)
A. Bully

ps: bring it back, or i'll send the boys round.


----------



## CleverBomb

mergirl said:


> I think it should be a private board for people who 'can take it' and it should be called 'hide park'!!  You would have to pay a fee to join though, which would go towards paying your therapy bill when, invariabley you go mental.



Or we could have a private board to argue about pork rinds.

Yes, that's right...

"Hide Pork".

-Rusty


----------



## Wild Zero

CleverBomb said:


> Or we could have a private board to argue about pork rinds.
> 
> Yes, that's right...
> 
> "Hide Pork".
> 
> -Rusty



They're called _chicharrones_!!!!! I can already see the need for a private board to argue over them.


----------



## T_Devil

I leave for a couple of months and I come back to find my favorite pissing contest is gone. Now how am I going to know that my opinions are wrong and that my facts are biased and my evidence for conclusions are flawed?

I mean I can get happy valley conversation anywhere. I came to Hyde Park to wade in the toxic waste and to revel in being destroyed spiritually and emotionally. There is nothing like being told you are wrong CONSTANTLY to make you feel alive.

Getting rid of Hyde Park doesn't change my feelings about people though. I still think some people are assholes. It isn't because their taste in politics sucked, it was because they had a poor quality in character. they're beloved by others more influential than I, so who cares what I think now? They still think I'm a little bitch, good for them.

Getting rid of Hyde Park, it just hides what we're feeling. Sorry, it HYDES what we are really feeling. Even with it gone, the tension is still there. Maybe it'll die. I hope it does because then people can go back to crapping rainbows and kissing unicorns.

That's not my scene.

And don't think I've never ventured outside the park either. I have. I learned a lot about myself and about the size acceptance movement. I learned there is a dark side to it and there is an all too willing base to support what can only be described as bad behavior and piss-poor decisions. God forbid we vocalize any form of dissent. That's what Hyde Park was supposed to be for, I guess.

I don't know, love it, hate it, mourn it's loss or dance on it's grave, it's all the same shit to me. If it's not HP it'll be another forum. A topic that I'll read, then feel like I need to take a shower to scrub the ick from off my soul.

I'll concede, there are a lot of positive aspects about this place. It's responsible for many people accepting themselves and what they feel. It has dramatically changed some people for the better in that it takes them form self loathing to self understanding.

I get that, and that's fine, but....

I've also seen some behavior here that makes me wonder if bitches like Kirsty Ally and Oprah don't have just a little bit of truth in their hatred of us. To me, HP was that part of Dimensions where I went to blow off steam. I didn't want to aim my frustrations at Size Acceptance because around here, that's like begging to get your throat slit. So, politics was a good way of letting it out.

People see me as an angry person. I can say I'm not and it's up to you to believe me. I am whatever you see me as and I can claim to be something different as much as I want. It won't change how other people see me, if that is all they choose to see.

I want to see the human side of some people here that I've only ever seen sarcasm and malcontentedness in. I would like too, but could they ever see their way past me? I doubt it.

Hyde Park may be gone, but the damage has been done and in many people, the damage could very well be permanent. It's not that we hold grudges, it's that we just can't forget, and forgetting is harder than forgiving. Time heals all wounds, but sometimes, those wounds leave perceptive disfigurements in people we are expected to share the same piece of cyberspace with.

I can only imagine a lot of people are going to move on, not because HP is gone, but because they don't have a way of transferring what they feel into a new perception. They cannot reconcile what they feel towards others and will drift away because they have nothing connecting them.

That's fine, I guess. You can't please everybody.

HP is gone and it won't be able to poison fresh new faces that login here for the first time. But that's not to say that those feelings are gone as well. The feelings are still there, they're just more subtle now. The temptation is just too great to NOT put a hook into someone every so often. It happens on other boards, but here, there is sooo much more than what meets the eye.

I do like people here. I don't want to end this post on a note hating on this place. I believe in it's mission and there are many wonderful people here. There were people in Hyde Park that I didn't agree with their politics, but they remained to be decent people in spite of our differences. I just have nothing to talk about anymore.

HP was one of the reasons why I keep up with current events and learn as much as I can about politics. I actually find the whole thing very entertaining in a soap opera kind of way. It's like Dynasty or some shit, only it's real. So something positive did come out of Hyde Park for me. Now that it's gone now, what am I going to discuss?

size acceptance?

That's not me. I'm a fat guy, I like fat girls and I wouldn't mind a bigger seat on an airplane. But I don't endorse it. I don't endorse it _because_ of some of the behavior I've seen here. It's ironic; Dimensions made more more politically aware, and less active towards a movement that I really ought to support. I'm sorry if that bums some of you out, but...

_Honesty is my only excuse._*

*Damage Inc.
Metallica
Master of Puppets


----------



## Blackjack

Accurate depiction of Hyde Park


----------



## Spanky

Blackjack said:


> Accurate depiction of Hyde Park



Fuckin' classic. 

Now......which one is the liberal and which one is the conservative?


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar

Blackjack said:


> Accurate depiction of Hyde Park



It's actually more like this.


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar

I would also say that those of us who attempt to plant the seeds of HP elsewhere, as it were, need to stay out of the Main Board. One of the mods shut down a rather interesting thread on Atheism and FAs when the ratio of atheism and religion rose above the FA issues. Ergo, if we want it on the Main, more fat, less logic and reason.

I would also say that that particular thread was closed as opposed to this one which remained and was simply moved to the Lounge. Maybe someone should start some shit there so both "HR-related" threads get equal treatment.


----------



## BigBeautifulMe

AS...that MP sketch was classic. 

But I still think HP is more like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgXvR97Wk6g&feature=related


----------



## Webmaster

T_Devil said:


> I leave for a couple of months and I come back to find my favorite pissing contest is gone....



Thanks for some really good points. I can see why you, and some others, feel that way. However, when you look at the FAQ, you'll see that _"for men, Dimensions is a place where they can talk and learn about their preference, and find lots of steamy fiction, picture, bulletin boards and plenty more. For women, it's a place where THEY, and not their skinny sisters, are the stars. It's a place where they can learn about their admirers and to see the beauty and attractiveness in their bodies_," and also that "_Dimensions is about size politics, acceptance, and mutual respect as much as it is about celebrating the larger figure_.

I tolerated the ongoing and often excessive rudeness in HP for as long as I could on the basis that a community of people with common interests likes to do and discuss all sorts of things in their favorite hangout. However, when it became evident that some folks in HP were unable to carry on a debate without resorting to rudeness and personal insults, the cost of people who came here for the same reason getting alienated from one another over politics and other hot-button topics was simply too great.

See, just because some people do not get hurt by insults and attacks doesn't make it right. Bullies have always liked venues where they can roam and pick on helpless victims. And online is offering bullies a virtual playground that must seem a veritable paradise to them, one where they are able to slash and hurt at random, anonymously, and without fear of getting their nose punched. That is not right. People deserve safe places and I want for Dimensions to be one of them. The Web is full of no-holds-barred venues for those who like to slash and attack and behave the way they hopefully never would in person.

Combine that with HP needlessly burning up an excessive amount of maintenance, bandwidth and positive energy, and the fact that anger, lack of control, intent to hurt, poor behavior and bullying tactics simply aren't qualities anyone should be proud of, and the decision was easy.


----------



## TallFatSue

Our Webmaster and Moderators have helped create one of the finest resources for fat people I've ever encountered. Conrad continues to move mountains for us in terms of bandwidth, servers and heaven knows what else. If they need to take certain actions to preserve their resources and to keep our focus on what Dimensions is truly all about, I support their decisions.

APPLAUSE.


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar

TallFatSue said:


> Our Webmaster and Moderators have helped create one of the finest resources for fat people I've ever encountered. Conrad continues to move mountains for us in terms of bandwidth, servers and heaven knows what else. If they need to take certain actions to preserve their resources and to keep our focus on what Dimensions is truly all about, I support their decisions.
> 
> APPLAUSE.


 I agree that Dimensions needs to maintain a certain focus, but I also believe that BBWs and BHMs and FAs who enjoy this site should also be able to come together in a forum of civil discussion to talk about current events and other topics of interest apart from purely size-related issues--it seems silly to have to resort to going elsewhere but as has also been indicated the mods had their hands full with HP and unfortunately, a few bad apples ruined the basket. 

HP was an area I felt at home more than many other areas of this site and I am guessing as a result many of us will have to look elsewhere for the hurling of pointed invective, satirical yet overemphasized cartoons and displays of internet machismo. Sometimes there is a lot of fun to be had in wittily bantered debate regardless of the conclusion you reach.


----------



## moore2me

Webmaster said:


> Thanks for some really good points. I can see why you, and some others, feel that way. However, when you look at the FAQ, you'll see that _"for men, Dimensions is a place where they can talk and learn about their preference, and find lots of steamy fiction, picture, bulletin boards and plenty more. For women, it's a place where THEY, and not their skinny sisters, are the stars. It's a place where they can learn about their admirers and to see the beauty and attractiveness in their bodies_," and also that "_Dimensions is about size politics, acceptance, and mutual respect as much as it is about celebrating the larger figure_.
> 
> I tolerated the ongoing and often excessive rudeness in HP for as long as I could on the basis that a community of people with common interests likes to do and discuss all sorts of things in their favorite hangout. However, when it became evident that some folks in HP were unable to carry on a debate without resorting to rudeness and personal insults, the cost of people who came here for the same reason getting alienated from one another over politics and other hot-button topics was simply too great.
> 
> See, just because some people do not get hurt by insults and attacks doesn't make it right. Bullies have always liked venues where they can roam and pick on helpless victims. And online is offering bullies a virtual playground that must seem a veritable paradise to them, one where they are able to slash and hurt at random, anonymously, and without fear of getting their nose punched. That is not right. People deserve safe places and I want for Dimensions to be one of them. The Web is full of no-holds-barred venues for those who like to slash and attack and behave the way they hopefully never would in person.
> 
> 
> Combine that with HP needlessly burning up an excessive amount of maintenance, bandwidth and positive energy, and the fact that anger, lack of control, intent to hurt, poor behavior and bullying tactics simply aren't qualities anyone should be proud of, and the decision was easy.




Dear Conrad, 

I appreciate your vision for Dimensions and thank you for having the where-with-all to pull it together. To be a ringmaster in a virtual city of international citizens has got to be a tremendously taxing, rewarding, expensive, and sometimes irritating job. Plus, there is no pay, no blueprints for operating procedures, inadequate technology, and the occasional lunatic who joins the website as a member.

And you are dead on right that we fat women need a place to talk to our homeys and learn about fat related issues. And before someone notices my gaff, fat men and fat admirers are also valuble contributors as well. I enjoy many of the Forums in DIMS, but do miss Hyde Park. 

In your previous post, you alluded to the fact that women need protection from the bad people on the internet. There are some women, who as you say, need protection from virtual bullies, protection from rude and uncivilized behavior, and get their feelings hurt way too easily. (I am not one of them, having been thru much worse than the words any little “rats” can come up with.) But, I think this argument is one of the reasons we need a Hyde Park. 

I have visited some of the other “discussion” websites and they are more like gladiator arenas in Rome where the participant may have to fight to the death and fight dirty. At least Hyde Park was relatively safe compared to a lot of the other choices. It wasn’t perfect, but then neither is our lives. I think Hyde Park let girls (women), some who have never had the courage to stand up, to take a public platform. It let us speak out and to sharpen our claws for real life battles that surely will come. Hyde Park with all it’s flaws, passionate politics, and knock-down-drag-out virtual fights, served a purpose in it let us girls learn to run with the “big dogs”.


----------



## T_Devil

Webmaster said:


> Thanks for some really good points. I can see why you, and some others, feel that way. However, when you look at the FAQ, you'll see that _"for men, Dimensions is a place where they can talk and learn about their preference, and find lots of steamy fiction, picture, bulletin boards and plenty more. For women, it's a place where THEY, and not their skinny sisters, are the stars. It's a place where they can learn about their admirers and to see the beauty and attractiveness in their bodies_," and also that "_Dimensions is about size politics, acceptance, and mutual respect as much as it is about celebrating the larger figure_.
> 
> I tolerated the ongoing and often excessive rudeness in HP for as long as I could on the basis that a community of people with common interests likes to do and discuss all sorts of things in their favorite hangout. However, when it became evident that some folks in HP were unable to carry on a debate without resorting to rudeness and personal insults, the cost of people who came here for the same reason getting alienated from one another over politics and other hot-button topics was simply too great.
> 
> See, just because some people do not get hurt by insults and attacks doesn't make it right. Bullies have always liked venues where they can roam and pick on helpless victims. And online is offering bullies a virtual playground that must seem a veritable paradise to them, one where they are able to slash and hurt at random, anonymously, and without fear of getting their nose punched. That is not right. People deserve safe places and I want for Dimensions to be one of them. The Web is full of no-holds-barred venues for those who like to slash and attack and behave the way they hopefully never would in person.
> 
> Combine that with HP needlessly burning up an excessive amount of maintenance, bandwidth and positive energy, and the fact that anger, lack of control, intent to hurt, poor behavior and bullying tactics simply aren't qualities anyone should be proud of, and the decision was easy.





TallFatSue said:


> Our Webmaster and Moderators have helped create one of the finest resources for fat people I've ever encountered. Conrad continues to move mountains for us in terms of bandwidth, servers and heaven knows what else. If they need to take certain actions to preserve their resources and to keep our focus on what Dimensions is truly all about, I support their decisions.
> 
> APPLAUSE.



I understand that. I understand that HP was a moderation nightmare and ate up bandwidth like the Cookie Monster in the Keebler Elves tree. I agree, if it's a cancer to the collective, it ought to be cut out so it cannot continue to infect the rest of the community. Some people agree, Some don't.

But just because you removed the cancer, doesn't mean you got all the cells.

"The Bullies" are still out there. That and even the term "Bullies" is arbitrary depending who you are. Maybe that is one of the more profound problems. I mean, if you're a person who knows how to construct their words very carefully and are smart enough to ally yourself with people who have power (mods) or even people who can influence power (friends of mods), you can potentially make yourself untouchable and nobody is gonna do anything about it because:
A) Who wants to perma-ban a friend?
B) Your words are constructed in such a manner that they just barely make it in under the boards Terms of Service.
And
C) Though "Technically" you're doing nothing wrong, you can still use the ambiguous gray areas of the rules to hurl veiled insults and sarcastic barbs towards people you feel deserve it. 

Again, they're doing nothing "wrong" and they do contribute to the community as a whole, but they still can make jabs at people where most of us would get into a lot of trouble. It's not an exclusive HP issue, but that's where it was most prevalent. I haven't posted enough around here in my return to say if this is still the case or not. 

It's definitely something I have noticed in the past, and I'll be the first to admit that I could be miles off base here because it is simply my perception. Whatever the case may be, I don't post as much as I used to, simply because the damage has been done.

I take pride in the things I write. Not everything, of course, but in the things I feel that matter. Some people have a different take on what I think and feel and that's fine. I believe we can learn from each other through disagreement because we can talk and our opinions can be altered based on brand new information. Sometimes though, it just feels like an insult, but it's not, though the intention is there and if that's what you infer from it, that's just _your_ "too bad".

Again, this was a big problem in Hyde Park. It's a problem that is only going to manifest itself somewhere else. I'm not pointing fingers at anybody, because I'll get many fingers pointed back at me, and lord knows, I don't want to be fingered. It's all perception anyways, so my opinion is moot.

The only thing I can say with any length of certainty is that this problem is very subtle. You don't really notice it unless you are the target and when you say anything about it to anyone, you just get a reply similar to this:
_They didn't do anything that violates the TOS and They have a right to their opinion. We will keep an eye on this situation, but we strongly recommend that you use the ignore function._ 

Look, All I'm saying is just because HP is gone doesn't mean that the problem is. It will take a while for it to resurface again and I doubt it'll be as apparent as it was in HP, but it's going to come up again eventually. It is an inevitability because a lot of the underlying feelings are still there. Being a mod or even the board owner, you may not even see it.... right away. Again, it's a very subtle problem.

If i had to make a suggestion, it would be to review policies and study the relationships with the mods and the people who post here. Saying this doesn't make me very popular with people who don't believe anything is wrong. there very obviously is a problem though because an entire forum had to be jettisoned from the community.

to me, that's a problem and if it can happen to one forum, what is stopping it from happening anywhere else? Granted HP was a breeding ground for bad blood, but that shouldn't suggest that what happened in HP couldn't happen anywhere else and that it couldn't happen to different people for different reasons.

That's all I'm saying.


----------



## TallFatSue

The debate about the whys and wherefores, or the shoulds and shouldn'ts, miss the point. My chief concern is that someday there may be one aggravation too much, or one system crash too many, and our patron saint may simply decide to pull the plug. My role as an office manager has taught me that everything and everyone has a limit where, no matter how valuable, it simply isn't worth the time, money or energy anymore. Hyde Park has long worn out its welcome for those who support this forum, so for the greater good, I respect this decision.

Besides, if I want an earful of controversy about the issues of the day, there are plenty of other forums better suited for it. Or I can haul my big fat ass out of my desk chair, walk down the hall, and stand still for more than 5 seconds near our resident liberal and conservative conspiracy theorists.


----------



## Mathias

Some of them left when Hyde Park did.


----------



## fffff

Maybe I'm in the wrong, but I didn't start posting here because I wanted a bunch of guys over the internet to admire me. There's probably more guys here that would find me attractive than in other places,and thats sort of cool. But I do not subsist off male attention. I don't need it, I don't seek it out, and I don't want to be put on some special pedestal where guys can come and admire my ass. 

I started posting because there were some really cool and interesting people here that talked about a lot of things, many not fat related. There's _a lot_ more to me than my chubby little body, like my big fat brain that loves to debate politics. Personally, I felt a thousand times more flattered when someone repped me for making a great point about a political issue than for looking wankable. And I don't believe that anyone (especially the women,) who regularly posted in hyde park wilted like delicate little flowers when a debate got heated. 

Now it seems like every thread that isn't directly related to fat is getting closed. And since I'm not into erotic fantasies, posting nudes of myself, or talking about plus-size clothing it's. just. dull. to me.


----------



## TraciJo67

fffff said:


> Maybe I'm in the wrong, but I didn't start posting here because I wanted a bunch of guys over the internet to admire me. There's probably more guys here that would find me attractive than in other places,and thats sort of cool. But I do not subsist off male attention. I don't need it, I don't seek it out, and I don't want to be put on some special pedestal where guys can come and admire my ass.
> 
> I started posting because there were some really cool and interesting people here that talked about a lot of things, many not fat related. There's _a lot_ more to me than my chubby little body, like my big fat brain that loves to debate politics. Personally, I felt a thousand times more flattered when someone repped me for making a great point about a political issue than for looking wankable. And I don't believe that anyone (especially the women,) who regularly posted in hyde park wilted like delicate little flowers when a debate got heated.
> 
> Now it seems like every thread that isn't directly related to fat is getting closed. And since I'm not into erotic fantasies, posting nudes of myself, or talking about plus-size clothing it's. just. dull. to me.



Agreed.

Still not understanding why we can't just allow HP to be an unmoderated free-for-all. Those with sensibilities to be offended can elect to stay away. Those with self-proclaimed thicker skins (and the ever-present desire to correct someone who is wrong on teh interwebz ) will know upfront that the big boys are playing, and mommy's skirt is nowhere in sight.


----------



## Tina

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> It's actually more like this.



Admiral, this is perfect. Tried to rep you for my first Dims laugh of the day, but it hasn't been long enough since the last time. Thank you, kind sir.


----------



## SamanthaNY

I was glad to see Teh 'Park go - initially. I hated it. But - I was unaware just how much it's demise was going to change the entire landscape here. And boy, has it ever. Now it's all-fat-all-the-time. Sure, there's no risk of seeing other sides to people, but the downside of that is that there's no chance to see other sides of people. Fat, fat, fat, fat, fattie, fat, fat. Oh, and fat, fatso. Btw - fat! Would you like some fat with your fat? Yes, I know - there's the lounge. Where we can guess letters 'n stuff. Nice, but not really very deep. 

Even after just this week (or two?) without HP... the site is now exhaustingly one-note. If that was the aim, then it's a job well-done. I suppose for the ardent fat fans, that's great. Can there ever be too much of a good thing? There can for me. I now understand that HP provided not only a pressure-release for hot button, off-topic subjects, but also a much, much, much, needed key change from the one-note-of-fat. Maybe that key was sometimes shrill and unpleasant, but it was different, and made going back to the fat topics all that much more pleasant and appreciated.

Maybe it'll all even out and settle into something nice. Or maybe we'll lose something (and some people) that will be missed. Everyone gets to make that judgment for themselves.


----------



## snuggletiger

its nice to know the thought police and the "OMG You said something that might have injured some stranger's feelings" cabal have won out. Forget debate and intercourse of ideas. Our next departing guest will probably be rational thought. Goodbye Rational Thought say hi to HP out there.


----------



## Sandie S-R

TraciJo67 said:


> ......snip.....
> 
> Still not understanding why we can't just allow HP to be an unmoderated free-for-all. ......snip......




Because this is not what HP was ever intended for and not what Conrad wants for Dimensions. 

You can find that sort of thing on lots of other political and religious forums all over the internet.


----------



## Miss Vickie

I'm just as upset as you guys are about this, but all this complaining isn't going to bring Hyde Park back. It seems like Conrad's mind is made up and once it's made up it's not going to change; I already experienced this with the WLS discussion forum and despite passionate discussion, for all intents and purposes, it's gone.

Our only hope is to start threads about non-fat-related topics that interest us in the lounge. Hopefully we'll be able to keep them on track (and friendly) so they won't get shut down. Not that I'm holding out much hope, but it seems that's the best we're gonna get at this point in time.


----------



## mergirl

Miss Vickie said:


> I'm just as upset as you guys are about this, but all this complaining isn't going to bring Hyde Park back. It seems like Conrad's mind is made up and once it's made up it's not going to change; I already experienced this with the WLS discussion forum and despite passionate discussion, for all intents and purposes, it's gone.
> 
> Our only hope is to start threads about non-fat-related topics that interest us in the lounge. Hopefully we'll be able to keep them on track (and friendly) so they won't get shut down. Not that I'm holding out much hope, but it seems that's the best we're gonna get at this point in time.


There have already been threds shut down because they were "too like hyde park"..EVEN when they seemed pretty civil..So basically i think all we can talk about now is being fat (and liking it) or liking fat. Or name that tune with a pic of a kitten falling off something for a nice change.


----------



## Miss Vickie

mergirl said:


> There have already been threds shut down because they were "too like hyde park"..EVEN when they seemed pretty civil..So basically i think all we can talk about now is being fat (and liking it) or liking fat. Or name that tune with a pic of a kitten falling off something for a nice change.



Seems that way, doesn't it?


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar

SamanthaNY said:


> I was glad to see Teh 'Park go - initially. I hated it. But - I was unaware just how much it's demise was going to change the entire landscape here. And boy, has it ever. Now it's all-fat-all-the-time. Sure, there's no risk of seeing other sides to people, but the downside of that is that there's no chance to see other sides of people. Fat, fat, fat, fat, fattie, fat, fat. Oh, and fat, fatso. Btw - fat! Would you like some fat with your fat? Yes, I know - there's the lounge. Where we can guess letters 'n stuff. Nice, but not really very deep.
> 
> Even after just this week (or two?) without HP... the site is now exhaustingly one-note. If that was the aim, then it's a job well-done. I suppose for the ardent fat fans, that's great. Can there ever be too much of a good thing? There can for me. I now understand that HP provided not only a pressure-release for hot button, off-topic subjects, but also a much, much, much, needed key change from the one-note-of-fat. Maybe that key was sometimes shrill and unpleasant, but it was different, and made going back to the fat topics all that much more pleasant and appreciated.
> 
> Maybe it'll all even out and settle into something nice. Or maybe we'll lose something (and some people) that will be missed. Everyone gets to make that judgment for themselves.


Gee, we didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition....

BTW, I [heart] everything you said. I am now going off to eat gluttonously and think deep thoughts about it.


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar

snuggletiger said:


> Forget debate and intercourse of ideas...


Save it for the fat sexuality thread.


----------



## fffff

> You can find that sort of thing on lots of other political and religious forums all over the internet.




Yeah, but I like the people _here_, I enjoy talking to the people _here_.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

What I don't understand is why so few threads on HP were ever _closed_ if they were too offensive/needlessly ate up bandwidth. If the argument was "well, we didn't want to interfere", then I think deleting the whole board was a much greater interference.


----------



## cammy

I infinitely enjoyed reading HP - it reminded me of the old Saturday Night Live newscasts where Dan Akroyd berated Jane Curtain with, "Jane, you ignorant slut..."


----------



## SparklingBBW

Tina said:


> Admiral, this is perfect. Tried to rep you for my first Dims laugh of the day, but it hasn't been long enough since the last time. Thank you, kind sir.



My rep isn't as grand as yours Tina, but I repped him for the both of us! 

Very funny and spot on accurate! 

.


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar

Genarose54 said:


> My rep isn't as grand as yours Tina, but I repped him for the both of us!
> 
> Very funny and spot on accurate!


Thankee sai


----------



## Webmaster

Miss Vickie said:


> I'm just as upset as you guys are about this, but all this complaining isn't going to bring Hyde Park back. It seems like Conrad's mind is made up and once it's made up it's not going to change; I already experienced this with the WLS discussion forum and despite passionate discussion, for all intents and purposes, it's gone.
> 
> Our only hope is to start threads about non-fat-related topics that interest us in the lounge. Hopefully we'll be able to keep them on track (and friendly) so they won't get shut down. Not that I'm holding out much hope, but it seems that's the best we're gonna get at this point in time.



Keep in mind that I didn't do this rashly. People were warned to stay on topic and stop the endless personal attacks and the rudeness numerous times. In the end, the cost of seeing people who otherwise have a lot in common become bitter enemies over mudslinging and sniping was simply too high. And also keep in mind that Dimensions is, in fact, primarily about size and fat and related issues, and not about politics and general discussion.

A community such as Dimensions is a longterm thing. In an era where websites and social communities du-jour come and go, I want to provide something permanent, something that'll always be there when people need it. Not everyone will always agree with the overall course and the occasional corrections, but by and large, with a 24-year track record and a good 100,000 page views a day, we must be doing something right.

Also, if you look at the overall community, you'll notice that plenty has been added and improved over time. It usually happens in a measured way after a lot of discussion, and many more projects have succeeded than not.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

The idea that Dimensions is a truly wonderful place for women just because men want to f*ck us kind of bothers me.......

I manage to have sex with or without Dimensions. 

I come here for the intelligent women and nice people in general. Showing your ass and picture threads doesn't really highlight intelligence.....

Not saying I miss Hyde Park....just saying that I suspect that this place needs to be more than picture threads to keep it's large following


----------



## T_Devil

missaf said:


> The bullies are still out there, true, but they won't be for long if they continue to be bullies  That's what the report function is for.



Wasn't there always a report function?


----------



## JoyJoy

I firmly believe that the "something right" was that, in spite of all it's warts, HP made Dim a well-rounded (no pun) place. A place where I could literally come and get insight on pretty much anything. I could see a news story and think, "Gee, I wonder what the folks at dim would have to say about this?" and know that, more often than not, I'd come away with something useful from people I know and respect. 

Now, because it's "primarily about size and fat and related issues", it's gone a bit flat for me. Yes, I still love it and have great friends here who I value, but...it's not quite as round. 

I guess you could say Dimensions lost weight.


----------



## mossystate

While I do understand the gut reaction that HP made enemies of people who have so much in common, the so much in common then is reduced to ...fat. I also think the ' enemies ' cry is too easy, and perhaps a bit overblown. Most people in the real world do talk about more than the superficial/what they see/what they physically desire in another person. 

There is plenty of bitterness that happens when time and time again the crude side of some of ' our friends ' is planted around Dimensions, like a staph infection. If all of it is thought to be positive/tolerated JUST because it has something to do with weight, then I am not sure how ultimately sustainable a community like this can be...or if it will not lose many vital members, including those who are not just lurking and looking at pictures, only to pop up to do ' an excited about fat ' equivalent ' of a HP snarkfest.

Real damage can, and does, come from many places.

Like Greenie, I don't wring my hands over the closing of HP. I don't think HP itself is the issue.


----------



## snuggletiger

I agree it was nice to get different points of views on things, but now we have become segmented so that nobody is ever told their wrong, so there's no disagreement. Basically healthy debate got pushed aside for unrealisitc ego primping of introducing an era where nobody is wrong, nobody is ever incorrect, that if we type something and a member of a certain click goes "OHHH I have that affliction" or "oooh i am this person's friend and you told me I am wrong" then whammy folks get attacked for being insensitive. Sorry HP we had a lot of fun, but for the PC correct folks that ruined it, burying your head in the sand won't suddenly cause Death, Famine, Hatred, and the other ills of society to go "Oopsie time to go, we offended a member of a click"


----------



## mossystate

snuggletiger said:


> I agree it was nice to get different points of views on things, but now we have become segmented so that nobody is ever told their wrong, so there's no disagreement. Basically healthy debate got pushed aside for unrealisitc ego primping of introducing an era where nobody is wrong, nobody is ever incorrect, that if we type something and a member of a certain click goes "OHHH I have that affliction" or "oooh i am this person's friend and you told me I am wrong" then whammy folks get attacked for being insensitive. Sorry HP we had a lot of fun, but for the PC correct folks that ruined it, burying your head in the sand won't suddenly cause Death, Famine, Hatred, and the other ills of society to go "Oopsie time to go, we offended a member of a click"



Nobody in HP was told they were wrong?

I think the HP in your head had jungle gyms, because you obviously were on the the monkey bars while the rest of us were knee deep in all kinds of conversations.

No particular ' side ' ruined it. Come on.


----------



## SamanthaNY

JoyJoy said:


> Now, because it's "primarily about size and fat and related issues", it's gone a bit flat for me. Yes, I still love it and have great friends here who I value, but...it's not quite as round.
> 
> I guess you could say Dimensions lost weight.



THIS. 

Q for effing *T*.

That 'weight loss' Joy so brilliantly mentions is being perceived (by some) as a not-so-subtle attempt at weeding out anyone who's not _rah!-rah!-fat!-rah!-rah!_ 24/7. Is that truly the aim? It's hard to escape the reduction of topics that were of much interest to fat people, but not _about _fat. And also troubling is the prideful, heavy handed manner ("there are millions of _other _places for talking about [un-fat subject] - go there") in which it's being done. If there's a deliberate culling of the herd... well, the herd would like to know. 

We may not own the house, but many feel this is a home. When walls come down (or go up) - it matters to us.


----------



## fatcharlie

fffff said:


> Yeah, but I like the people _here_, I enjoy talking to the people _here_.



I just agree to this 

And I miss HP

And everything in life is about politics. 
All you do or not do matters in one way or another. 
How we act, how we care or not care, what we say or not say, what buy or not buy,
All relates to politics in the end.
There is NOTHING that is unpolitical!

Thank you !


----------



## fatgirlflyin

SamanthaNY said:


> THIS.
> 
> Q for effing *T*.
> 
> That 'weight loss' Joy so brilliantly mentions is being perceived (by some) as a not-so-subtle attempt at weeding out anyone who's not _rah!-rah!-fat!-rah!-rah!_ 24/7. Is that truly the aim? It's hard to escape the reduction of topics that were of much interest to fat people, but not _about _fat. And also troubling is the prideful, heavy handed manner ("there are millions of _other _places for talking about [un-fat subject] - go there") in which it's being done. If there's a deliberate culling of the herd... well, the herd would like to know.



I liked the weight loss comparison too and have to admit that I visit Dimensions much less now than I did in the past. I honestly didn't realize how much time I spent reading Hyde Park, more in fact, than the clubhouse which I pay an annual membership for. 

The "there are other places for that" comments make me sad because the one thing that I truly enjoyed about Dims was that it was a well rounded place. I would read the news every day (I try to stay current anyway) looking for things that I thought people here might find interesting. Then I'd go to Hyde Park to see if it was posted and what people thought about it.


----------



## fatgirlflyin

SamanthaNY said:


> THIS.
> 
> If there's a deliberate culling of the herd... well, the herd would like to know.



Are you calling me a cow?


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

At least it's a fat related issue


----------



## cinnamitch

fatcharlie said:


> I just agree to this
> 
> And I miss HP



I miss it too. I don't think it was that bad. I have been on political forums that would make the conversation on HP look like a transcript of a Romper Room episode. Oh well not a lot anyone can do about it.


----------



## SamanthaNY

Ella Bella said:


> Are you calling me a cow?



Of course not - they herd peacocks too, ya know! 







Edit: A fat peacock.


----------



## mossystate

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> At least it's a fat related issue



Moooooo.:blush:


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Yeah and I still don't miss that stupid cunt.......errrrrrrrrr cow I used to have to work with


----------



## cinnamitch

mossystate said:


> Moooooo.:blush:


 
err, could you post a pic of a fat cow please? preferably while wearing a mumu.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

cinnamitch said:


> err, could you post a pic of a fat cow please? preferably while wearing a mumu.




*faps* ...


----------



## cinnamitch

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Yeah and I still don't miss that stupid cunt.......errrrrrrrrr cow I used to have to work with



post pics of stupid cun... err cow please.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Shove a corn cob up this cow's arse and you there you have it


----------



## cinnamitch

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Shove a corn cob up this cow's arse and you there you have it




By the facial expression, i would say the corn cob has already found its way there.


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

cinnamitch said:


> By the facial expression, i would say the corn cob has already found its way there.



No, that's never ending PMS......


----------



## Green Eyed Fairy

Oh and have I mentioned how much I disliked that stupid cunt.....errrr cow?


----------



## cinnamitch

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Oh and have I mentioned how much I disliked that stupid cunt.....errrr cow?




Looks like you are getting ready to do some butchering.


----------



## Chef

Are people still complaining about the lack of HP?

And I don't mean Harry Potter.

Its like people who still complain about W.


----------



## T_Devil

Chef said:


> Are people still complaining about the lack of HP?
> 
> And I don't mean Harry Potter.
> 
> Its like people who still complain about W.



Hit Points?

what does W have to do with Hit Points?


----------



## activistfatgirl

I HATE IT when you stumble on an issue on page 21 and it's turned into silly photos and fapping. I don't have time to read 21 pages of Dims to know what happened to Hyde Park, but the gossip in me MUST KNOW. Just sayin'. My box is open.


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar

JoyJoy said:


> Now, because it's "primarily about size and fat and related issues", it's gone a bit flat for me. Yes, I still love it and have great friends here who I value, but...it's not quite as round.
> 
> I guess you could say Dimensions lost weight.


Maybe you can call it an intellectual _Roux-en-Y_ for the site. The version of the surgery where they go in through the rectum.



snuggletiger said:


> I agree it was nice to get different points of views on things, but now we have become segmented so that nobody is ever told their wrong, so there's no disagreement. Basically healthy debate got pushed aside for unrealisitc ego primping of introducing an era where nobody is wrong, nobody is ever incorrect, that if we type something and a member of a certain click goes "OHHH I have that affliction" or "oooh i am this person's friend and you told me I am wrong" then whammy folks get attacked for being insensitive. Sorry HP we had a lot of fun, but for the PC correct folks that ruined it, burying your head in the sand won't suddenly cause Death, Famine, Hatred, and the other ills of society to go "Oopsie time to go, we offended a member of a click"


Then to me the answer is sort of a debate-level Thunderdome. We have a voting poll function on here, by jiminy use it! Whoever beats down their opponent in a battle of wits and sagacity has to face the wheel. While we may all want the needle to fall on "amputation", we can just as easily vote someone as "Auntie" and let her decide that person's fate. 



Chef said:


> Are people still complaining about the lack of HP?
> 
> And I don't mean Harry Potter.
> 
> Its like people who still complain about W.


We don't serve your kind here. (Brought to you by the number 3).




T_Devil said:


> Hit Points?
> 
> what does W have to do with Hit Points?


If we're talking W of the late Oval Office holder, then it would stand for the new 4th edition D&D stat, Worth. Unfortunately, he already used INT as his dump stat so I am not sure how he would survive in a typical melee encounter.

Sounds like the kind of 1st level fighter who would bring a dagger to a claymore fight.

[immersed in writing my July campaign session so I'm all up in the fantasy roleplaying grillz]


----------



## DELIMAN092262

Two points:

1.	Conrad is the boss. His is the only vote that counts. If you don’t like that start your own website.
2.	There will be fights ahead for the soul of the size acceptance community. For example, there were many hurt feelings during this battle (not in HP) over just what this communities’ values are and should be.



> http://www.dimensionsmagazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52639
> 
> A detriment or a benefit to fat acceptance?



No, I am NOT restarting this war. Just a reminder that there 
are fights outside of Hyde Park and can involve people of 
size and their values.


----------



## Mathias

Doesn't mean that those of us who were civil can't express our disappointment with it being gone. 

Have a nice day.


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar

DELIMAN092262 said:


> Two points:
> 
> 1. Conrad is the boss. His is the only vote that counts. If you dont like that start your own website.
> 2. There will be fights ahead for the soul of the size acceptance community. For example, there were many hurt feelings during this battle (not in HP) over just what this communities values are and should be.
> 
> 
> No, I am NOT restarting this war. Just a reminder that there
> are fights outside of Hyde Park and can involve people of
> size and their values.


This thread has nothing to do with size acceptance and you know it. We can have numerous discussions about the "soul of the size-acceptance community" that don't impact HP in the least. It's about certain aspects of Dimensions that are being systematically closed off due to moderator overload, irritant posting, webmaster disagreement and the "off-topic" catch-all for things that certain individuals either complain about incessantly to the powers-that-be or degenerate into a nonproductive flame war.

If it were truly inflammatory hate-speech at issue in HP, then yes the owner is within his right to block it. I think rather it's people getting into heated arguments about topics near and dear and having the thin-skinned among them unable to tolerate the pointedness of a good debate. Shit can get very ugly without resorting to what would really constitute a personal attack, and I know some of the issues involve kowtowing to a few professional victims who would rather whine than defend themselves for their words; these are not always attacks _in absentia_ but posters who actively invite retort and time and again never seem to learn that their method of discourse does not play well with others. 

To me that is only part of the issue. If you're going to cherry pick whose discussions are censured and whose are allowed to flourish again and again and again after numerous bans and sabbaticals, where is the fairness, then? I do realize that life is not fair, but how many chances does a certain 'user' get before their account is permanently banned, only to see IPFREELY come back under some dubious title a week later?

Yes, Conrad is in charge. He also accepts donations for server maintenance and upkeep; the question is whether he owes it to his patrons or not to support various 'topics' on his site. If the decision is that HP be moved to the Clubhouse, thereby eliciting a bit of bang for the poster's buck, that's the only logical place I can see it belonging. If it takes extra time to moderate that thread, and time is money, then it's to me a fair exchange. You're basically paying a subscription to a site for the right to discuss topics of interest potentially outside the size-acceptance community. Go to Free Republic or Huffington Post or Little Green Footballs if you want to see how bad and personal political battles can get. For some posters on those sites there isn't a category in the DSMIV yet for how batshit crazy they are. Also, as other posters have indicated, why do I want to go somewhere else when all my friends are here? Many of us are like-minded and share similar perspectives on the posted topics. 

I suppose it's my myopic assumption to expect adults to act like adults on an adult-themed site without resorting to playground, Pythonesque or slaphappy behavior.


----------



## Seth Warren

DELIMAN092262 said:


> Two points:
> 
> 1. Conrad is the boss. His is the only vote that counts. If you dont like that start your own website.



Done. There's even a forum.

No need to thank me.


----------



## NancyGirl74

Chef said:


> Are people still complaining about the lack of HP?
> 
> And I don't mean Harry Potter.
> 
> Its like people who still complain about W.



May _*I*_ complain about the lack of HP as in Harry Potter??? 

TOTALLY stoked about the next movie....

What?.....

Not the place?.....

Ok...

Sorry


----------



## TraciJo67

I want to curl up by the fireplace and roast marshmallows with this post.



Admiral_Snackbar said:


> This thread has nothing to do with size acceptance and you know it. We can have numerous discussions about the "soul of the size-acceptance community" that don't impact HP in the least. It's about certain aspects of Dimensions that are being systematically closed off due to moderator overload, irritant posting, webmaster disagreement and the "off-topic" catch-all for things that certain individuals either complain about incessantly to the powers-that-be or degenerate into a nonproductive flame war.
> 
> If it were truly inflammatory hate-speech at issue in HP, then yes the owner is within his right to block it. I think rather it's people getting into heated arguments about topics near and dear and having the thin-skinned among them unable to tolerate the pointedness of a good debate. Shit can get very ugly without resorting to what would really constitute a personal attack, and I know some of the issues involve kowtowing to a few professional victims who would rather whine than defend themselves for their words; these are not always attacks _in absentia_ but posters who actively invite retort and time and again never seem to learn that their method of discourse does not play well with others.
> 
> To me that is only part of the issue. If you're going to cherry pick whose discussions are censured and whose are allowed to flourish again and again and again after numerous bans and sabbaticals, where is the fairness, then? I do realize that life is not fair, but how many chances does a certain 'user' get before their account is permanently banned, only to see IPFREELY come back under some dubious title a week later?
> 
> Yes, Conrad is in charge. He also accepts donations for server maintenance and upkeep; the question is whether he owes it to his patrons or not to support various 'topics' on his site. If the decision is that HP be moved to the Clubhouse, thereby eliciting a bit of bang for the poster's buck, that's the only logical place I can see it belonging. If it takes extra time to moderate that thread, and time is money, then it's to me a fair exchange. You're basically paying a subscription to a site for the right to discuss topics of interest potentially outside the size-acceptance community. Go to Free Republic or Huffington Post or Little Green Footballs if you want to see how bad and personal political battles can get. For some posters on those sites there isn't a category in the DSMIV yet for how batshit crazy they are. Also, as other posters have indicated, why do I want to go somewhere else when all my friends are here? Many of us are like-minded and share similar perspectives on the posted topics.
> 
> I suppose it's my myopic assumption to expect adults to act like adults on an adult-themed site without resorting to playground, Pythonesque or slaphappy behavior.


----------



## Jane

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> The idea that Dimensions is a truly wonderful place for women just because men want to f*ck us kind of bothers me.......
> 
> I manage to have sex with or without Dimensions.
> 
> I come here for the intelligent women and nice people in general. Showing your ass and picture threads doesn't really highlight intelligence.....
> 
> Not saying I miss Hyde Park....just saying that I suspect that this place needs to be more than picture threads to keep it's large following



Exactly, and Joy, too.

However, I would rather be debating with you on either side, that just agreeing for agreement's sake.


----------



## frankman

I disagree with all of you, even with those who are right.


----------



## butch

I wonder with all the hoopla over the election of our new president, you know "Change we can believe in" and all that, maybe the closing of Hyde park is a symbol that the polarization that has increasingly influenced our society is on the way out. Maybe Obama really will bring us all together on a hillside, holding hands and singing "I'd like to buy the world a Coke" in a new age of love and cooperation, and in order for that New World Order to happen, Hyde Park had to go. So, think of giving up Hyde Park as one thing you can do to help make America strong again.


----------



## Spanky

I want to know what everybody else is doing with their idled SHIT STIRRERS. 

I have a bigger one and it just sits in the corner collecting dust on the old shit left from the last stirring. Months ago. SEVERAL months ago. 

<sigh>


----------



## TraciJo67

Spanky said:


> I want to know what everybody else is doing with their idled SHIT STIRRERS.
> 
> I have a bigger one and it just sits in the corner collecting dust on the old shit left from the last stirring. Months ago. SEVERAL months ago.
> 
> <sigh>



My shit stirrer has a very limited shelf life, Sparks. I'm currently using it to add some flavor to my ever-present latte collection (don't believe me? proof below)







This is .. uh .. from today :blush:


----------



## Surlysomething

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> It's actually more like this.




Hilarity!


----------



## LillyBBBW

TraciJo67 said:


> My shit stirrer has a very limited shelf life, Sparks. I'm currently using it to add some flavor to my ever-present latte collection (don't believe me? proof below)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is .. uh .. from today :blush:



Wow, a three fisted coffee drinker. Somehow I'm not surprised.


----------



## Surlysomething

TraciJo67 said:


> My shit stirrer has a very limited shelf life, Sparks. I'm currently using it to add some flavor to my ever-present latte collection (don't believe me? proof below)
> 
> 
> This is .. uh .. from today :blush:




You ARE rich!


----------



## fatgirlflyin

DELIMAN092262 said:


> Two points:
> 
> 1.	Conrad is the boss. His is the only vote that counts. If you dont like that start your own website.




This argument is really tiresome. 

Yes Conrad is the boss. Yes Conrad owns this site.
Is his vote the only vote that counts? I don't believe it should be and I don't belive that it has been. There have been a few new boards pop up as of late because people have petitioned for them and brought forward a good argument for them.

What if everyone who didn't like a decision that was made around here left and started their own site? What do you think would happen to this site? I'm betting there wouldn't be the 100,000 hits a day like there are now. The people like me who donate annually to Dims wouldn't be here either, and Dims would eventually suffer. 

So please stop telling people if you don't like it leave (everyone who's doing it, not just Deliman), because what if in fact, we did leave?


----------



## Spanky

You guys ain't seen nothin' yet. 

TraciJo's doggie. 

View attachment doggie coffee.jpg


----------



## TraciJo67

Surlysomething said:


> You ARE rich!



Like all affluent, obscenely wealthy people, I reeeeeeeecycle, Surly. I save my precious, precious Star$Bucks cups and make my own lattes in them. 

That said, I dragged my tired ass out and bought 2 today. What can I say? I need to spend this huge pile SOMEWHERE


----------



## Surlysomething

TraciJo67 said:


> Like all affluent, obscenely wealthy people, I reeeeeeeecycle, Surly. I save my precious, precious Star$Bucks cups and make my own lattes in them.
> 
> That said, I dragged my tired ass out and bought 2 today. What can I say? I need to spend this huge pile SOMEWHERE



I broke the Starbucks habit last year. I now drink Tim Horton's, cheap and delicious. (although i'm stinkin' rich too and could afford two latte's a day myself PLUS a big ole ginger molasses cookie from the big S)


----------



## mergirl

Surlysomething said:


> I broke the Starbucks habit last year. I now drink Tim Horton's, cheap and delicious. (although i'm stinkin' rich too and could afford two latte's a day myself PLUS a big ole ginger molasses cookie from the big S)


i mainly drink toilet water or gruel. Though if tracijo was more of a phillanthropist i could be drinking liquid gold out of a diamond holygrail cup... but she is stingy that way..


----------



## mergirl

Ella Bella said:


> This argument is really tiresome.
> 
> Yes Conrad is the boss. Yes Conrad owns this site.
> Is his vote the only vote that counts? I don't believe it should be and I don't belive that it has been. There have been a few new boards pop up as of late because people have petitioned for them and brought forward a good argument for them.
> 
> What if everyone who didn't like a decision that was made around here left and started their own site? What do you think would happen to this site? I'm betting there wouldn't be the 100,000 hits a day like there are now. The people like me who donate annually to Dims wouldn't be here either, and Dims would eventually suffer.
> 
> So please stop telling people if you don't like it leave (everyone who's doing it, not just Deliman), because what if in fact, we did leave?


Maby there will be a revolution.?
Though, there are other fat/fa sites out there, so there has to be a reason people stay posting in dims.. i dont actually post on any other sites so i have no idea how they compare to here.


----------



## LillyBBBW

I'm so broke I have to make my own coffee at home. My coffee carafe broke last week though and to replace it costs almost the same as it cost for the cheapo machine. I've been drinking the free coffee offered at work while I figure this mess out. *grumbles*


----------



## Surlysomething

mergirl said:


> i mainly drink toilet water or gruel. Though if tracijo was more of a phillanthropist i could be drinking liquid gold out of a diamond holygrail cup... but she is stingy that way..




I don't think Traci likes sharing much. How do you think she got so rich?


----------



## Surlysomething

LillyBBBW said:


> I'm so broke I have to make my own coffee at home. My coffee carafe broke last week though and to replace it costs almost the same as it cost for the cheapo machine. I've been drinking the free coffee offered at work while I figure this mess out. *grumbles*




I only buy one cup in the morning so I can handle the $1.53, thankfully. I would end up having to buy cream and splenda and all that for the house so I think it's an ok balance. But when I was doing the Starbucks/office socializing thing I was spending $4.00 for a latte and most always got a treat to go with it. It was getting ridiculous! I also didn't really need the extra goodie every morning and they never came with duct tape so I couldn't actually tape it right to my ass instead of waiting until it showed up there the next week. Haha.


----------



## mergirl

right. yeah..she said as much.  moof! oh well..i just hope she doesnt expect a share of the meat package that is the first prize of that raffle i entered if i win!!!
:happy:
Btw..while we are here (as opposed to there) what does it mean when you have 'referals' on here? I have a feeling its bad!!


----------



## LillyBBBW

mergirl said:


> right. yeah..she said as much.  moof! oh well..i just hope she doesnt expect a share of the meat package that is the first prize of that raffle i entered if i win!!!
> :happy:
> Btw..while we are here (as opposed to there) what does it mean when you have 'referals' on here? I have a feeling its bad!!



It means you told someone about this place. They came, saw and decided to sign up. When they were filling out their information and were asked how they found out about it they put your name down as the referrer and bingo! though I could be wrong. I've told no one of this place and chuckle nervously whenever anyone brings it up and I got a referral from somebody.


----------



## mergirl

oh.. well i guess that would make sense because i told my bi-sizual friend about here and also my gf.. ahh thanks Lilly.. i wondered that for a while.


----------



## Miss Vickie

Webmaster said:


> Keep in mind that I didn't do this rashly.



Um. Not sure why you'd direct this at me, since I never even implied that it was a rash or quick decision. I've posted here for ten years, Conrad, so I know how you decide things vis a vis this site. You don't decide things quickly, and once your mind is made up, that's it. I'm not sure I've ever seen you reverse a decision.



> And also keep in mind that Dimensions is, in fact, primarily about size and fat and related issues, and not about politics and general discussion.



Oh, I understand. You've made it abundantly clear what Dimensions is, and isn't, about. I just hope that there are enough fat related topics to keep it going. There's just so much more to us than our fat, and I hope you'll forgive us for wanting to, you know, discuss those things. I don't think we should be castigated for being passionate about some very real life issues. Yes, I agree that some people went overboard and were too nasty to each other. I was surprised by more than a couple of people who were allowed to stay after being nasty and hateful. But even though there may have been people who "became enemies", there was much much much more passionate discussion that gave a liveliness to the place.



JoyJoy said:


> I could see a news story and think, "Gee, I wonder what the folks at dim would have to say about this?" and know that, more often than not, I'd come away with something useful from people I know and respect.



Same here. Since the closure of HP, there have been times when I've wanted to come here and discuss it with my Dimensions pals, but now I can't. If it's in the slightest bit political or "edgy", I'm sure it'll get deleted. 



> Now, because it's "primarily about size and fat and related issues", it's gone a bit flat for me. Yes, I still love it and have great friends here who I value, but...it's not quite as round.
> 
> I guess you could say Dimensions lost weight.



I feel exactly the same.



Ella Bella said:


> The "there are other places for that" comments make me sad because the one thing that I truly enjoyed about Dims was that it was a well rounded place. I would read the news every day (I try to stay current anyway) looking for things that I thought people here might find interesting. Then I'd go to Hyde Park to see if it was posted and what people thought about it.



I agree. Sure, there are other places for political discussion, but most of them are very partisan. If I wanted partisan discussion, I'd go to Democratic Underground. But I want to know what lots of very smart people think about things, which is why I enjoyed HP so much. If there are other places with really smart people discussing issues from both sides, I'd love it if someone could hook me up. 



Admiral_Snackbar said:


> This thread has nothing to do with size acceptance and you know it. We can have numerous discussions about the "soul of the size-acceptance community" that don't impact HP in the least. It's about certain aspects of Dimensions that are being systematically closed off due to moderator overload, irritant posting, webmaster disagreement and the "off-topic" catch-all for things that certain individuals either complain about incessantly to the powers-that-be or degenerate into a nonproductive flame war.
> 
> If it were truly inflammatory hate-speech at issue in HP, then yes the owner is within his right to block it. I think rather it's people getting into heated arguments about topics near and dear and having the thin-skinned among them unable to tolerate the pointedness of a good debate. Shit can get very ugly without resorting to what would really constitute a personal attack, and I know some of the issues involve kowtowing to a few professional victims who would rather whine than defend themselves for their words; these are not always attacks _in absentia_ but posters who actively invite retort and time and again never seem to learn that their method of discourse does not play well with others.
> 
> To me that is only part of the issue. If you're going to cherry pick whose discussions are censured and whose are allowed to flourish again and again and again after numerous bans and sabbaticals, where is the fairness, then? I do realize that life is not fair, but how many chances does a certain 'user' get before their account is permanently banned, only to see IPFREELY come back under some dubious title a week later?
> 
> Yes, Conrad is in charge. He also accepts donations for server maintenance and upkeep; the question is whether he owes it to his patrons or not to support various 'topics' on his site. If the decision is that HP be moved to the Clubhouse, thereby eliciting a bit of bang for the poster's buck, that's the only logical place I can see it belonging. If it takes extra time to moderate that thread, and time is money, then it's to me a fair exchange. You're basically paying a subscription to a site for the right to discuss topics of interest potentially outside the size-acceptance community. Go to Free Republic or Huffington Post or Little Green Footballs if you want to see how bad and personal political battles can get. For some posters on those sites there isn't a category in the DSMIV yet for how batshit crazy they are. Also, as other posters have indicated, why do I want to go somewhere else when all my friends are here? Many of us are like-minded and share similar perspectives on the posted topics.
> 
> I suppose it's my myopic assumption to expect adults to act like adults on an adult-themed site without resorting to playground, Pythonesque or slaphappy behavior.



Quoted for Awesomeness.  And yes, I'd definitely pay if HP was made private, so Conrad would get my handful of shekels for his time, and I'm sure there would be others.



Spanky said:


> I want to know what everybody else is doing with their idled SHIT STIRRERS.
> 
> I have a bigger one and it just sits in the corner collecting dust on the old shit left from the last stirring. Months ago. SEVERAL months ago.
> 
> <sigh>



It's springtime in Alaska and I have a whole winter's worth of semi-frozen dog doodie to clean up. I've found that my shit stirrer works just perfectly for extricating those little piles of yum from the surrounding, dead grass.



Ella Bella said:


> This argument is really tiresome.
> 
> Yes Conrad is the boss. Yes Conrad owns this site.
> Is his vote the only vote that counts? I don't believe it should be and I don't belive that it has been. There have been a few new boards pop up as of late because people have petitioned for them and brought forward a good argument for them.
> 
> What if everyone who didn't like a decision that was made around here left and started their own site? What do you think would happen to this site? I'm betting there wouldn't be the 100,000 hits a day like there are now. The people like me who donate annually to Dims wouldn't be here either, and Dims would eventually suffer.
> 
> So please stop telling people if you don't like it leave (everyone who's doing it, not just Deliman), because what if in fact, we did leave?



Yes. Totally.


----------



## snuggletiger

you can only talk about pictures, fetishes and handing out stickers to boost folks' ego and feelings.


----------



## Observer

Has anyone here ever heard of the Lyceum movement?

It led to the weather bureau, libraries, and the popularization of public schools.

The Lyceums are long gone, but they served their communities as Hyde Park never did this one - perhaps instead of discussing HP's passing we should start thinking of one here?



> The term "lyceum" originated in ancient Greece, where Aristotle taught Athenians in a grove near the temple of Apollo Lyceus(1). In American history, the lyceum movement was a thrust for education of man, woman, and child through local lecture series(1).
> 
> The lyceum movement sprung up as a result of the Industrial Revolution, and originated in Scotland, where Dr. George Birbeck delivered lectures and scientific demonstrations to a Glasgow audience of young mechanics(2). Early in the nineteenth century, the movement spread to France, then the United States(2).
> 
> In the U.S., several factors were paving the way for the lyceum movement. First, Cotton Mather’s religious discussion groups set up the idea of a public forum for intellectual discussion(2). Also, Ben Franklin founded his famous Junto in Philadelphia, which Franklin called a "club of mutual improvement(2)." The official opening of the Erie Canal in 1825 helped the Lyceum Movement thrive; the canal became a major commercial waterway, and towns that sprung up in the area became economic hotspots(3). As the canal population grew, so did their desire for culture and education(3). Finally, the election of Andrew Jackson brought about the "Era of Jacksonian Democracy," and recently enfranchised blue-collar workers thirsted for knowledge that would help them use their new political power wisely(4).
> 
> The lyceum movement was conceived by Josiah Holbrook in New England in the 1820s(1). Holbrook, born in Derby, Connecticut, and graduated from Yale in 1810, became a traveling lecturer who first spoke on science and technology, then formed industrial and agricultural schools for young men(4). In 1826 in Massachusetts Holbrook set up the first lyceum, the "Millsbury Branch, Number 1, of the American Lyceum(1)." Holbrook intended the lyceum to be a local study group which met at weekly intervals(4). He based his lyceums on the belief that education should continue all through life, regardless of age and gender, and that learning helps stave off the temptation of alcohol(1).
> 
> Besides the goal of education, lyceums also promoted the establishment of libraries, museums, and public schools(4). Holbrook and other lyceum devotees believed that universal, free education could right the illnesses of society, preserve democracy, and dissolve the oppressive caste system(4). Holbrook also envisioned a hierarchy of lyceums, the highest of which being the National American Lyceum, established in 1831(5). However, many local lyceums resisted the idea of state and national superiors, and the National Lyceum died after only eight years(5).
> 
> Most lyceum experts agree that the early days of lyceums, before the Civil War, were the most education-oriented(5). In these first days, the members of the lyceum took turns lecturing to each other and met in houses, churches, and schools(1). The lyceum movement multiplied rapidly, and in 1840 Horace Mann reported that Massachusetts alone contained 137 separate lyceums, each with an average attendance of more than 32,000(1).
> 
> Although lyceums flourished most in New England, by 1839 four to five thousand had popped up as far south as Florida and as far west as Detroit(1). The spread of lyceums was made possible by the U.S. Congress’ opening of huge tracks of land for settlement(3). Easterners flocked west and brought the lyceum movement with them(3). In the South, however, lyceum activity never caught on with the same fervor because southern aristocrats feared that education of poor whites and slaves would damage the economy(5). Also, the South lacked a large middle class, the main patronage of lyceums(5).
> 
> As lyceums grew in number and attendance, lecturing became a profession for some travelling teachers who collected fees for their speeches(1). Emerson reportedly requested only five dollars and oats for his horse at first, but rates quickly inflated(1). Lyceums attracted famous writers, historians, explorers, and religious philosophers including Ralph Waldo Emerson, Henry David Thoreau, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Wendell Phillips, and Horace Greeley(1).
> 
> With the Civil War came the immediate cessation of lyceum activity, and the lyceums that reemerged after the war were fundamentally different from their antebellum counterparts(5). The aim of lyceums was now to entertain as well as to educate(3). Lyceums began to attract singers, dancers, impersonators, magicians, and animal performances, and the completion of the first continental railway in 1869 and the overall expansion of rail in the 1870s transported these lecturers and travelling performers west(3).
> 
> Lyceum bureaus also cropped up to book travelling performers and lecturers at various lyceums across the country(3). James Redpath, an ardent abolitionist, formed the Boston Lyceum Bureau , or Redpath Bureau, the most well-known and lucrative lyceum booking agency of the time(3). Other noteworthy lyceum bureaus were the Williams Lecture and Musical Bureau and the Midland Lyceum Bureau(3). By 1900 there were a total of twelve lyceum bureaus, each of which booked at least 3,000 events a year(3).
> 
> In the early twentieth century, lyceums slowly died out, but the lyceums’ lasting effects are visible even today(5). First, the teaching profession raised its standards for teachers and students, and teachers became more widely appreciated. The lyceum movement also brought about state control over education(4). Other results included the formation of the Weather Bureau(meteorology had reached a wide audience through scientific lectures), and the large boom in literacy fueled by the lyceum movement brought a plethora of new periodicals to the North and South(5). In 1850, there were 2,526 serial publications, and by 1860, there were 40,051(5).
> 
> Josiah Holbrook’s vision of lyceums spreading knowledge to young and old, male and female was a resounding success, especially in New England. Beginning in 1826 and fading in the early twentieth century, the Lyceum Movement lives on in the changes it brought about in American public education.


----------



## snuggletiger

Observer said:


> Has anyone here ever heard of the Lyceum movement?
> 
> It led to the weather bureau, libraries, and the popularization of public schools.
> 
> The Lyceums are long gone, but they served their communities as Hyde Park never did this one - perhaps instead of discussing HP's passing we should start thinking of one here?



That would be great but who's going to lecture on what?


----------



## Observer

To paraphrase Fox news, the thread originator lectures, the responding posters discuss.

The difference is, no flaming, insulting or disparaging - everyone extends mutual respect towards other participants and the subject matter. Thiis means keeping their language in check accordingly.


----------



## mergirl

So basically hyde park light?


----------



## saucywench

Perhaps if it were based more along the lines of the Algonquin Round [] Table or Gertrude Stein's salon...more loosely structured. 

Maybe less drinking involved, too.


----------



## mossystate

So....ummmmm...Hyde Park.

And, wouldn't moderating be necessary?

Or, are you pretty much saying that there will be 5 people in there, who are deemed ' responsible and worthy '? 

Hey....have fun...whoohoooooooo.

Power to the people...well, a few people.


----------



## Mathias

There's more to me than the fact that I'm an FA. There's more to me than, what movies I saw, what music I'm currently listening to, what video games I like to play, what the latest picture I took of myself looks like, and what's making me happy or sad or annoying me in my day to day life. There's also more to the people here other than the fact that they are fat or admire it in some way. I watch the news very often. And Hyde Park was of such great importance to me where, I would say "Hmm, I wonder what ______ opinion will be on this?" With these issues I could say what I felt on other issues besides my preference to larger women. Basically what I'm saying is I feel like I have alot less to contribute to this place now that it's gone, and that really sucks.


----------



## Miss Vickie

Observer said:


> To paraphrase Fox news, the thread originator lectures, the responding posters discuss.
> 
> The difference is, no flaming, insulting or disparaging - everyone extends mutual respect towards other participants and the subject matter. Thiis means keeping their language in check accordingly.



That should be the ideal, anyway. Had HP actually been that way, we wouldn't have had the bad feelings which (apparently!) have led to its closure. So are you saying that Conrad is willing to create such a site?


----------



## Sandie S-R

Observer said:


> To paraphrase Fox news, the thread originator lectures, the responding posters discuss.
> 
> The difference is, no flaming, insulting or disparaging - everyone extends mutual respect towards other participants and the subject matter. Thiis means keeping their language in check accordingly.



Honestly, if the people who posted in HP were capable of posting without flaming, insulting or disparaging, don't you think they would have already done it?? 

Personally, I don't think that posters who were the major offenders in HP are able to do any better than they did. And expecting a slightly different format to change how these people post, may be a little too optimistic.

Pardon me if I'm a cynic.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

Observer said:


> Has anyone here ever heard of the Lyceum movement?
> 
> It led to the weather bureau, libraries, and the popularization of public schools.
> 
> The Lyceums are long gone, but they served their communities as Hyde Park never did this one - perhaps instead of discussing HP's passing we should start thinking of one here?





Observer said:


> To paraphrase Fox news, the thread originator lectures, the responding posters discuss.
> 
> The difference is, no flaming, insulting or disparaging - everyone extends mutual respect towards other participants and the subject matter. Thiis means keeping their language in check accordingly.



Big fan of the Lyceum as well as the noble Chautauquas. I think they were both intimately acquainted with the offense, if not the word _calumny_? One of the simplest precepts of Dims seems to me to be that no one should be attacked for unfair or irrelevant reasons. At least as far as the F word (fat) goes I think we do a pretty decent job of abiding by that on most of the boards. Why not a resurrected version of the lyceum with calumny as a mortal sin? Just sayin'.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

Sandie S-R said:


> Honestly, if the people who posted in HP were capable of posting without flaming, insulting or disparaging, don't you think they would have already done it??
> 
> Personally, I don't think that posters who were the major offenders in HP are able to do any better than they did. And expecting a slightly different format to change how these people post, may be a little too optimistic.
> 
> Pardon me if I'm a cynic.



So why not just ban these "major offenders"? Or tell them that they will be banned if they continue posting in such a way (tho if I'm on that list please tell me nicely lol)? I mean, if it's a private board...


----------



## T_Devil

Ekim said:


> So why not just ban these "major offenders"? Or tell them that they will be banned if they continue posting in such a way (tho if I'm on that list please tell me nicely lol)? I mean, if it's a private board...



I've been temporarily banned on a couple of occasions. I don't really know why and I don't know if I'm the only one or not, but whatever i was doing to fuck up it seemed to have straightened itself out because now if I get pissed off really bad I just stop posting here for a while instead of lashing out and getting banned, again.

Whatever the case maybe, some people just can't be told nicely to leave. Sometimes, they have to be escorted to the door and thrown out.


----------



## frankman

Plah. 

That Lyceum stuff is all good and well, until someone brings up a real subject instead of some vague hypothetical. real subjects are close to people's hearts, and "inspire" gut-reactions in the best of people.

I'm probably on that list of people pissing others off, and you know what? It's a million times better than getting lectured by people without the ability to disagree to major points, not because disagreeing means cursing and flaming, but because disagreeing on real points heats up arguments.

Can't have a heated discussion, someone's sigar might drop in the brandy...

So yeah, if anyone is interested in a peaceful discussion (as in discourse, not debate) on unemotional stuff, that's their choice. I'd rather watch lolcats than take such a sissy excuse; I', interested in what people think about abortion, politics, death penalty, real stuff.

But for all those bent on gently musing the surface size of the moon, or the amount of pingpong balls to fill up an ocean, go right ahead.


----------



## mango

*I agree to disagree with everything that has been said in this thread so far! 



*


----------



## Ernest Nagel

frankman said:


> Plah.
> 
> That Lyceum stuff is all good and well, until someone brings up a real subject instead of some vague hypothetical. real subjects are close to people's hearts, and "inspire" gut-reactions in the best of people.
> 
> I'm probably on that list of people pissing others off, and you know what? It's a million times better than getting lectured by people without the ability to disagree to major points, not because disagreeing means cursing and flaming, but because disagreeing on real points heats up arguments.
> 
> Can't have a heated discussion, someone's sigar might drop in the brandy...
> 
> So yeah, if anyone is interested in a peaceful discussion (as in discourse, not debate) on unemotional stuff, that's their choice. I'd rather watch lolcats than take such a sissy excuse; I', interested in what people think about abortion, politics, death penalty, real stuff.
> 
> But for all those bent on gently musing the surface size of the moon, or the amount of pingpong balls to fill up an ocean, go right ahead.



So you think passionate beliefs and respectful disagreement are mutually exclusive? Interesting.

*IMO* The problem in HP wasn't so much decibels; you can shout all you like if you think that helps your position. You don't even have to listen to a thing the other person says. All that I see Observer suggesting is that we respect the rights of those we disagree with and refrain from _ad hominem_ attacks.

If you want things on your terms and decline to negotiate why should Conrad reconsider? I frankly (npi) have no concern whether HP is resurrected in any form but some people I like and respect miss it. I'll say/do what I can for a do-over to support them. 

FWIW I think a Neo-HP (or HP Lite/Decaf in Frank's estimation) would be well grounded by two classic F. Scott Fitzgerald quotes:

Whenever you feel like criticizing anyone, just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had. 

The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function. 

This post is mostly for Observer, who shares my distaste for calumny, I believe.


----------



## T_Devil

mango said:


> *I agree to disagree with everything that has been said in this thread so far!
> 
> 
> 
> *



Oh yeah? Well, I think you're wrong!


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar

TraciJo67 said:


> Like all affluent, obscenely wealthy people, I reeeeeeeecycle, Surly. I save my precious, precious Star$Bucks cups and make my own lattes in them.
> 
> That said, I dragged my tired ass out and bought 2 today. What can I say? I need to spend this huge pile SOMEWHERE


And this is why I only drink special cafe lattes made from the bitter tears of a hundred Salvadorian orphans, topped with milk specially steamed in gilded pitchers and hand-squeezed by former Czech supermodels from free-ranged, lobotomized cows so as to ensure only the finest quality experience. Delicious should mean that someone is suffering because of it .



Observer said:


> Has anyone here ever heard of the Lyceum movement?
> 
> It led to the weather bureau, libraries, and the popularization of public schools.
> 
> The Lyceums are long gone, but they served their communities as Hyde Park never did this one - perhaps instead of discussing HP's passing we should start thinking of one here?


I don't know if the Lyceums were prepared to argue on topics as far reaching as reproductive ethics, size-acceptance, abortion, nuclear war or terrorism. Even if the discussions then were around the existence of the supernatural, I keep thinking it was somehow more civilized.



Ernest Nagel said:


> So you think passionate beliefs and respectful disagreement are mutually exclusive? Interesting.
> 
> *IMO* The problem in HP wasn't so much decibels; you can shout all you like if you think that helps your position. You don't even have to listen to a thing the other person says. All that I see Observer suggesting is that we respect the rights of those we disagree with and refrain from _ad hominem_ attacks.
> 
> If you want things on your terms and decline to negotiate why should Conrad reconsider? I frankly (npi) have no concern whether HP is resurrected in any form but some people I like and respect miss it. I'll say/do what I can for a do-over to support them.
> 
> FWIW I think a Neo-HP (or HP Lite/Decaf in Frank's estimation) would be well grounded by two classic F. Scott Fitzgerald quotes:
> 
> Whenever you feel like criticizing anyone, just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had.
> 
> The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.
> 
> This post is mostly for Observer, who shares my distaste for calumny, I believe.


I won't call someone out on their behavior unless it's repeatedly, systematically been demonstrated and has time and again proved to be annoying, pointless and/or detrimental to the continuation of a thread. There are some Dims members who I feel are "seed crystals," one single post and it changes the entire solvent system for that thread. 

In any case to speak to your latter issue, I have no problem respecting someone's opinion, as long as it is an EDUCATED opinion. Too many people talk out of their ass, sooner or later there's gonna be some shit flying around and it will clog up a thread as surely as a handful of babywipes would a sewage line.

The ultimate thing at issue is whether you can have what we want--an HP utopia of reasoned, respectful debate in a format that everyone can get behind--when there is always going to be someone wrong on the Internet. I have regular discussions with intelligent people with math skills that put mine to shame that insist with all their heart that fossils were put in the earth by Satan to tempt us. Certain brands of crazy you simply cannot reason with no matter how many reams of data you set before them. We're not asking questions about favorite colors or the cars we like, we're asking about whether the unborn have rights, whether this party or that is good for America, whether the bombing of an innocent country is a necessary evil for the greater good.

We just can't have our cake and eat it too. But since I used cake in my example I still think Dims is as good a place as anywhere else to conduct our examinations. We just need to ensure that rules are followed. If that can't be accomplished in a reasonable, timely and frustration-free manner, then maybe HP doesn't have a future here. I would just hate to see the wonderful discussions I've had on this site suddenly end because a few people couldn't behave themselves**.

**: Disclaimer: To date I have only been reprimanded for a personal attack, never banned, but whether it's because I am above that sort of thing or whether I neatly construct my arguments to adhere to the spirit of the law if not so much the letter, I'm not sure. I just dislike assholes who are proud of their rectal fortitude.


----------



## frankman

Ernest Nagel said:


> So you think passionate beliefs and respectful disagreement are mutually exclusive? Interesting.
> 
> *IMO* The problem in HP wasn't so much decibels; you can shout all you like if you think that helps your position. You don't even have to listen to a thing the other person says. All that I see Observer suggesting is that we respect the rights of those we disagree with and refrain from _ad hominem_ attacks.
> 
> If you want things on your terms and decline to negotiate why should Conrad reconsider? I frankly (npi) have no concern whether HP is resurrected in any form but some people I like and respect miss it. I'll say/do what I can for a do-over to support them.
> 
> FWIW I think a Neo-HP (or HP Lite/Decaf in Frank's estimation) would be well grounded by two classic F. Scott Fitzgerald quotes:
> 
> Whenever you feel like criticizing anyone, just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had.
> 
> The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function.
> 
> This post is mostly for Observer, who shares my distaste for calumny, I believe.



Call me a cynic, but reality has proven time and time again that when subjects are close to people, common sense goes out the window. It's a sad but true-ism.

I've only been infracted once for a personal attack, and even that one was shady, so I might not be the hard core of all the shit-flinging, but I knowingly enable it, just because it doesn't bother me like it does some others.

I know there are plenty decent forms of debate, and personal attacks are not in the spirit of the thing and whatnot, I'd love to see some here, really, I do.

Reality on the other hand makes all that Lyceum stuff and that elevated and hautain hypothesizing about "what could and should be _the_ way to discuss things" belong in the unicorns and fairies category.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

Snack and Frank, are you saying civil conversations about controversial subjects are impossible _in general_ or only online? Or perhaps just not in an _open_ online forum?

Gentleman, I've had and continue to have them both in other online venues and with fellow Dimmers in PM. All that's really required is that parties surrender the need to win or be "right". That's really not a fairy tale. It happens in most successful relationships, or so I'm told?  I'm able to do it without even much pain or testicular shrinkage. 

I've got no stake in this. If everyone is determined that civility is undoable I don't see much incentive for Conrad to relent. Excuse me for assuming a higher degree of maturity than is apparently at hand. :bow:


----------



## butch

Granted, I've never spent a lot of time in Hyde Park, but I've been in the thick of it plenty of times in disagreements and such at Dims (including Hyde Park), and I have never gotten a reprimand or an infraction. Perhaps Ernest's thoughts on civil discussion of volatile issues aren't as naive as some might be suggesting.


----------



## Observer

Same here Butch - and also for the vast majority of posters.

The underlying problem with HP was that from its inception it was intended as an unmoderated cross between a sandbox to dump flame wars from other forums and a soapbox for OT issues that didn't fit elsewhere. 

Initially it wasn't intended to be primarily political or moderated. It was the Dimensions community that made it primarily political and forced the writing of "da rules" and the designation of moderators.

Lyceums on the other hand are meant to develop culture, exchange information, and show respect for diverse and even unusual views. There is little they didn't include, but they were at the core of what d'Tocqueville wrote about in his famous tome _Democracy in America._ Immediate "Right" and "Wrong" resolution of issues were not expected - expansion of viewpoints was.


----------



## moore2me

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> And this is why I only drink special cafe lattes made from the bitter tears of a hundred Salvadorian orphans, topped with milk specially steamed in gilded pitchers and hand-squeezed by former Czech supermodels from free-ranged, lobotomized cows so as to ensure only the finest quality experience. Delicious should mean that someone is suffering because of it .
> 
> I don't know if the Lyceums were prepared to argue on topics as far reaching as reproductive ethics, size-acceptance, abortion, nuclear war or terrorism. Even if the discussions then were around the existence of the supernatural, I keep thinking it was somehow more civilized.
> 
> 
> I won't call someone out on their behavior unless it's repeatedly, systematically been demonstrated and has time and again proved to be annoying, pointless and/or detrimental to the continuation of a thread. There are some Dims members who I feel are "seed crystals," one single post and it changes the entire solvent system for that thread.
> 
> *Moore's comments in blue:
> I have a different opinion. Sometimes, one offense is profoundly offensive enough to need banning or even expulsion. For example telling someone expressing another viewpoint that you think they should be "murdered and burn in hell."*
> 
> In any case to speak to your latter issue, I have no problem respecting someone's opinion, as long as it is an EDUCATED opinion.
> 
> *People who are not "educated" deserve to have their opinion respected too. Some of the most interesting, sincere, humane, and WISE people I have ever met (or have not met, but are legends), were not highly educated. *
> 
> The ultimate thing at issue is whether you can have what we want--an HP utopia of reasoned, respectful debate in a format that everyone can get behind--when there is always going to be someone wrong on the Internet. I have regular discussions with intelligent people with math skills that put mine to shame that insist with all their heart that fossils were put in the earth by Satan to tempt us. Certain brands of crazy you simply cannot reason with no matter how many reams of data you set before them.
> 
> *Too high much mathematics can render a person incapable of communicating with normal folks. (In fact normal folk often flee when they realize the person approaching is a mathematician.)
> 
> 
> . . . .(Rest of post Admiral's deleted for brevity.)*







Ernest Nagel said:


> Snack and Frank, are you saying civil conversations about controversial subjects are impossible _in general_ or only online? Or perhaps just not in an _open_ online forum?
> 
> Gentleman, I've had and continue to have them both in other online venues and with fellow Dimmers in PM. All that's really required is that parties surrender the need to win or be "right". That's really not a fairy tale. It happens in most successful relationships, or so I'm told?  I'm able to do it without even much pain or testicular shrinkage.
> 
> *I think you've hit on one of the big problems with the HP carnage - too much testosterone. I bet quite a bit of the fights are testosterone induced. *
> 
> I've got no stake in this. If everyone is determined that civility is undoable I don't see much incentive for Conrad to relent. Excuse me for assuming a higher degree of maturity than is apparently at hand.
> 
> *Now Ernest - You really can't mean that you are the only mature person with a dog in this fight? * :bow:



------------------------------------------------------------------------

*As to what I would like to see in HP if a redo is ever possible . . . . I think going more with the spirit of formal debate is needed. By this, I mean something more of the discussion like is seen in the UN, Parliment, or Congress where adults are more civil and courteous. If a member can't handle himself/herself appropriately, they would have to leave.*


----------



## frankman

Ernest Nagel said:


> Snack and Frank, are you saying civil conversations about controversial subjects are impossible _in general_ or only online? Or perhaps just not in an _open_ online forum?
> 
> Gentleman, I've had and continue to have them both in other online venues and with fellow Dimmers in PM. All that's really required is that parties surrender the need to win or be "right". That's really not a fairy tale. It happens in most successful relationships, or so I'm told?  I'm able to do it without even much pain or testicular shrinkage.
> 
> I've got no stake in this. If everyone is determined that civility is undoable I don't see much incentive for Conrad to relent. Excuse me for assuming a higher degree of maturity than is apparently at hand. :bow:



Civil debate is something that is possible among friends or even aquaintances, where-ever. I could have a civil debates in PMs, I'll just choose the people I PM carefully.

Civil debate s possible among peers, to some degree. Thing is, in HydePartk, not everybody was eachother's peer. They should have been, but in all truth they were not. There were conflicts of interest, and some opinions were just dismissed because in some other thread they went against the grain of some people. Try being pro-life in a thread on Alaskan/European/whatever politics. Unrelated you say? I would agree, but look back at some of the threads.

Civil debate is difficult at best on an open forum. Next to peer problems, there is the fact that people can totally miss the tone of a post, taking offense, people who take offense at _everything_, in other words: all kinds of people.

And that's cool.

As to someone suggesting that there was too much testosterone in HP: there was plenty of estrogen as well, trust me.

Last point is, that some opinions ARE offensive. At least to some. I take great offense when someone says it's better to bomb some village to hell, some take great offense when their civil rights are involved. Try say something constructive about the Gaza/Israel/Palestine situation; you're bound to piss off someone. Friendly debate about abortion, explaining religious reasons against pro-choice? Good luck.

You can tell everyone: don't get mad or even, it's about understanding one another, but when someone's opinion feels like a mental kick in the gut, it gets really hard.

I'd rather have the mods and owner know exactly what they're getting into, should they decide to revive some form of HP, instead of all this bullshit about expanding horizons. Because it _is_ all about expanding them, it just doesn't _work_ that prettily.


----------



## RacinJason

I noticed more then a few people that basically did the old SNL from the 70's during the point-counterpoint segment.

Jane you ignorant slut! - is no way to get your point accross. Somebody on here call me a few names and half of them were on target and I didn't run off to ADMIN to cry. But when I served up a dish of FU to somebody....boom I was warned. It might just be me, but I can withstand name calling if it means I can get my point accross. I also take name calling as a sign of weakness in your arguement. Some people just have too thin skin.

There are 100 other places I can bash people politically. This being one less place doesn't take away from the fact I like the website.


----------



## mergirl

Ernest Nagel said:


> All that's really required is that parties surrender the need to win or be "right".



See, i can agree with this up to a point until the civil rights of people become threatened. You know, i was very anti-gun owning before i 'erm discussed' it in hyde park. I thought about it and conceaded that in some cases it might be ok to own guns! My opinions are rarely set in stone, so i feel absolutely no clit shrinkage if i change my mind. UNTIL, someone comes along and decides its not ok for women/gay people/black people/*insert people of choice* to have the same civil rights as other people. Then i must insist that i fight tooth and claw and i hell as WONT be civil and i WILL be right. Try to take away my civil rights and you take away my civility. I really can understand why people lose it at people who are bigotted. In real life if someone came up to me and said 'gay people shouldn't be afforded the same rights as straight people i would tell them 'Fuck off you ignorant bawchop and stop sharing my air'. If someone preached to me on the street saying 'Thank God aids was sent to kill gay people' I would possibly break their tambourine over their heads. Though, this is the kinna shit people can get away with saying/have said in Hyde park. It is not seen as personal so there can be no banning. Then when people (rightfully) get angry, they are the ones who do get banned. A lot of people have had to fight for the rights they have got, people have actually died fighting for them and people still feel the waves or even tsunami of bigotry in their everyday lives. This sort of stuff actually effects their lives, jobs, relationships, sense of self and because of this it just isn't an option NOT to fight. I have a strong opinion on lots of issues that i could discuss with a lot of civility and could even agree to disagree or in some cases could concead that we are both right in some ways. In some cases, this is just not possible because there is too much at stake to let someone 'win'.


----------



## Jane

moore2me said:


> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *As to what I would like to see in HP if a redo is ever possible . . . . I think going more with the spirit of formal debate is needed. By this, I mean something more of the discussion like is seen in the UN, Parliment, or Congress where adults are more civil and courteous. If a member can't handle himself/herself appropriately, they would have to leave.*



Moore, I've watched Parliment before, and they can get worse than HP ever did.


----------



## TraciJo67

moore2me said:


> People who are not "educated" deserve to have their opinion respected too. Some of the most interesting, sincere, humane, and WISE people I have ever met (or have not met, but are legends), were not highly educated.



I don't believe that AdSnack was referring to a college degree here, Moore. This is a reference to people bothering to educate themselves about the issue(s) that they are debating, and that doesn't require a diploma. Just some common sense, and the desire to broaden one's perspective.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

*"Now Ernest - You really can't mean that you are the only mature person with a dog in this fight?" Moore2Me*

Quite the opposite M2M. I assume most people here are far more mature than me. I don't think you have to be a genius or an elder to understand that people are more than the sum of their opinions though? Actions are far more telling, imo. I know homophobes, creationists and even democrats who do more good and exhibit more human kindness than many well-intended charities. I'm friends with people who harbor what I consider abominable ideas. Nobody's perfekt. 

I think a bit of the disconnect here is that a lot of people on Dims (me for one) are here to get to know one another just as we are and aren't. Some (many?) of the people in HP seemed more interested in just being around other folks who hailed from their perspective and marginalizing anyone else. To each his own. Srsly. I'm happy to "vote with my mouse", so to speak, and let the HPuffing and HPosturing rage on into the night. 

I made a choice many years ago to practice forgiveness. I'm still better with others than I am myself but it has definitely made my life calmer. HP was most of the time for me little more than a place to practice forgiveness. PLENTY of opps for that irl though. That's why I say I really don't have a dog in this fight. :bow:


----------



## collared Princess

Well I feel better cause this whole time I thought I shut down HP..I had just discovered it and was typing a reply when wammee it was gone..was it something I said...eeeks:wubu:


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar

Ernest Nagel said:


> Snack and Frank, are you saying civil conversations about controversial subjects are impossible _in general_ or only online? Or perhaps just not in an _open_ online forum?
> 
> Gentleman, I've had and continue to have them both in other online venues and with fellow Dimmers in PM. All that's really required is that parties surrender the need to win or be "right". That's really not a fairy tale. It happens in most successful relationships, or so I'm told?  I'm able to do it without even much pain or testicular shrinkage.
> 
> I've got no stake in this. If everyone is determined that civility is undoable I don't see much incentive for Conrad to relent. Excuse me for assuming a higher degree of maturity than is apparently at hand. :bow:


I will say it's both in RealLife and online. The interesting thing about Speaker's Corner is that the debates can be civil and heated depending on the topic. All the moderation does is keep out the freepers and the batshit crazy (or lowers it to a tolerable level).

I will agree in a few instances the need to be right is there, but more often than not I just want to scream "CITATION!?" because I have to wonder where the facts were pulled from.



moore2me said:


> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *As to what I would like to see in HP if a redo is ever possible . . . . I think going more with the spirit of formal debate is needed. By this, I mean something more of the discussion like is seen in the UN, Parliment, or Congress where adults are more civil and courteous. If a member can't handle himself/herself appropriately, they would have to leave.*


Trying to implement parliamentary procedures online is almost impossible. Even more so in a thread where you don't always have people coming to it for the same reasons. I've found there are around four types of posters for these kinds of topics: 1) Information only (I found this article, let's discuss), 2) Shit disturbers (ooh, this will really stick it to those goddamn libs!), who are mainly there to stir the pot, 3) The Look-At-Me-ers (I'm so cool I found this awesome post and now I'm going to go on a lengthy diatribe as to why it's the Absolute Truth(tm)), 4) The Obtuse (I found this article and I'm so MAD about it--and it turns out I completely misunderstood the scope/intent of the original topic).



TraciJo67 said:


> I don't believe that AdSnack was referring to a college degree here, Moore. This is a reference to people bothering to educate themselves about the issue(s) that they are debating, and that doesn't require a diploma. Just some common sense, and the desire to broaden one's perspective.


Thank you, that's exactly right. I should have phrased it in terms of _I will respect your opinion only insofar as it's an INFORMED opinion_. It's the reason I get so infuriated about topics in science who are presented by someone who clearly has no idea of how science works in the first place, or who claims some font of medical knowledge beyond the ken of scores of PhDs and MDs, not that the latter group is devoid of forensic marvels overall--to me it comes down to two things; if you can't express it in figures it's not science, it's opinion and "anecdotes" are not equivalent to "data".


----------



## SparklingBBW

There was ACTUALLY nothing ironic mentioned in Alannis Morrisette's song, "Isn't it Ironic?" 

I wonder if that was the master plan or just a delicious twist of fate. 



.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

moore2me said:


> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> *As to what I would like to see in HP if a redo is ever possible . . . . I think going more with the spirit of formal debate is needed. By this, I mean something more of the discussion like is seen in the UN, Parliment, or Congress where adults are more civil and courteous. If a member can't handle himself/herself appropriately, they would have to leave.*



Actually, in Congress I think members don't even show up if they don't want to hear what someone has to say...


----------



## Admiral_Snackbar

Genarose54 said:


> There was ACTUALLY nothing ironic mentioned in Alannis Morrisette's song, "Isn't it Ironic?"
> 
> I wonder if that was the master plan or just a delicious twist of fate.
> 
> 
> 
> .


I think it has to do with the Canadian Debbie Gibson trying to sound all angsty and emo following her breakup with a comedian who talks in a Bullwinkle voice.

You have to sound like you're really deep and troubled so you write songs about loss and irony and fate and relationship hell. Did she ever go down on him in a theater? I think not.

I will say she looks better with the shorter hair though (I dog on her song "Everything," which sounds a helluva lot more real than her Jagged Little Pill stuff**).

** Don't get me wrong, I loved JLP when it came out but then she had to rediscover herself 2-3 times and I went all meh.


----------



## mergirl

Genarose54 said:


> There was ACTUALLY nothing ironic mentioned in Alannis Morrisette's song, "Isn't it Ironic?"
> 
> I wonder if that was the master plan or just a delicious twist of fate.
> 
> 
> 
> .


Buuuuuut. To write a song about Irony that isn't Ironic...
Isn't it Ironic?
Don't you think?


----------



## frankman

mergirl said:


> Buuuuuut. To write a song about Irony that isn't Ironic...
> Isn't it Ironic?
> Don't you think?



A little _too_ ironic?
Yeah, I really _do_ think.


----------



## mergirl

frankman said:


> A little _too_ ironic?
> Yeah, I really _do_ think.


Yeah..actually.
I feel it may be a conspiricy to anoy us.
Though i was watching a stand up comedian and he said Americans dont get irony apparently. 
Do you americans 'get' irony?
hmm.. whats not to get?
dont get it..
Though, isn't she Canadian?? 
This should be on the Blah blah thred...as i am now talking shite.


----------



## frankman

mergirl said:


> Yeah..actually.
> I feel it may be a conspiricy to anoy us.
> Though i was watching a stand up comedian and he said Americans dont get irony apparently.
> Do you americans 'get' irony?
> hmm.. whats not to get?
> dont get it..
> Though, isn't she Canadian??
> This should be on the Blah blah thred...as i am now talking shite.



I cannot speak for the Americans, since I am not one of them. 

Ed Byrne on Ironic:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT1TVSTkAXg


----------



## mergirl

i know YOU are not American.. you are hollish!


----------



## Miss Vickie

mergirl said:


> i know YOU are not American.. you are hollish!



And actually, since she's Canadian, she IS American. North American.  She's just not a US citizen. Leave it to the USofA to use the term "American" to describe only us -- not the other countries that happen to populate America.

But to answer your question... yes, we "get" irony. Some of us, anyway, to actually took literature classes in school. Just like some of us "get" grammar and punctuation.


----------



## Spanky

Miss Vickie said:


> And actually, since she's Canadian, she IS American. North American.  She's just not a US citizen. Leave it to the USofA to use the term "American" to describe only us -- not the other countries that happen to populate America.
> 
> But to answer your question... yes, we "get" irony. Some of us, anyway, to actually took literature classes in school. Just like some of us "get" grammar and punctuation.



When Canada renames itself the United Provinces of America, then they can take the "American" name. Until then, they are Southern Alaskans. But I lovingly call them "Hosers".


----------



## mergirl

Miss Vickie said:


> And actually, since she's Canadian, she IS American. North American.  She's just not a US citizen. Leave it to the USofA to use the term "American" to describe only us -- not the other countries that happen to populate America.
> 
> But to answer your question... yes, we "get" irony. Some of us, anyway, to actually took literature classes in school. Just like some of us "get" grammar and punctuation.


yeah.. i dont 'get' that. 
Well, i do but i'm far too lazy and busy to use it, especially here for you Cretins! 
See though that would kind of be like me saying i am European, which although technically would be correct i would consider myself scottish. Scotland being a part of Europe. Now, if some country in europe was to call themselves 'Europe' That would be just plain arrogant!!


----------



## frankman

mergirl said:


> yeah.. i dont 'get' that.
> Well, i do but i'm far too lazy and busy to use it, especially here for you Cretins!
> See though that would kind of be like me saying i am European, which although technically would be correct i would consider myself scottish. Scotland being a part of Europe. Now, if some country in europe was to call themselves 'Europe' That would be just plain arrogant!!



I always considered you a "citizen of the world". 


With an accent.


----------



## Ernest Nagel

"One of the first things a relationship therapist learns is that couples argue to burn up energy that could be used for something else. In fact, arguments often serve the purpose of using up energy, so that the couple do not have to take the courageous, creative leap into an unknown they fear. Arguing serves the function of being a zone of familiarity into which you can retreat when you are afraid of making a creative breakthrough." ~ Gay Hendricks

OTOH ( and more to Gena's poit re irony):
"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory." ~ Leonardo da Vinci


----------



## Ernest Nagel

And more to Gena's point re irony, really "Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using his intelligence; he is just using his memory." ~ Leonardo da Vinci 

Self mockery isn't technically ironic on its' own, of course unless it skewers a cherished foible. Which reminds me, I _love_ pate de foible gras. :eat2:


----------



## moore2me

Ernest Nagel said:


> "One of the first things a relationship therapist learns is that couples argue to burn up energy that could be used for something else. In fact, arguments often serve the purpose of using up energy, so that the couple do not have to take the courageous, creative leap into an unknown they fear. Arguing serves the function of being a zone of familiarity into which you can retreat when you are afraid of making a creative breakthrough." ~ Gay Hendricks



Ernest, I realize you were not addressing this quote to me specifically, but I would like to answer anway. 

Some of us argue because we are right and the other person is wrong. However, I am not afraid of making a creative breakthru (not that I know what it is, but I am not afraid of new things).

And any therapist that suggests to my husband he is not courageous and is afraid of making changes in our relationship will likely find himself on dangerous ground. Hubby is not amused by being dissed by such "boiler plate psychoanalysis."


----------



## Webmaster

frankman said:


> I cannot speak for the Americans, since I am not one of them.



This is actually a thought-provoking statement. I AM American, and have been for longer than many posters here have been alive. But I wasn't born here. I am also Swiss, and that'll to some extent always define me, both in my view of the world and a residual accent. 

But while I am Swiss, I am also Swiss GERMAN as opposed to Swiss Italian or Swiss French. And while I am Swiss GERMAN, I am from ZURICH, and NOT from Bern or Basel (those guys talk slow and are terrible soccer players, respectively). And so on. There will always be categories that define us, to a greater or lesser extent, and the degree to which we define ourselves as this or that can form movements and dominate our lives, or not.


----------



## mossystate

I do believe the ' um '...the ' , '...and...the ' ? ', should just be removed from the title of this thread.


----------



## mergirl

mossystate said:


> I do believe the ' um '...the ' , '...and...the ' ? ', should just be removed from the title of this thread.


gah! dont jinx it!! i was hoping this would go unnoticed!!


----------



## exile in thighville

Observer said:


> The difference is, no flaming, insulting or disparaging - everyone extends mutual respect towards other participants and the subject matter. Thiis means keeping their language in check accordingly.



too much work and totally unreasonable in the season of the internet


----------



## frankman

Webmaster said:


> This is actually a thought-provoking statement. I AM American, and have been for longer than many posters here have been alive. But I wasn't born here. I am also Swiss, and that'll to some extent always define me, both in my view of the world and a residual accent.
> 
> But while I am Swiss, I am also Swiss GERMAN as opposed to Swiss Italian or Swiss French. And while I am Swiss GERMAN, I am from ZURICH, and NOT from Bern or Basel (those guys talk slow and are terrible soccer players, respectively). And so on. There will always be categories that define us, to a greater or lesser extent, and the degree to which we define ourselves as this or that can form movements and dominate our lives, or not.



In context however, my point was that my answering the question if Americans lack the irony gene would be just as much based on preconceptions and prejudice. I cannot claim I know the American mind, if there is such a thing (a national denominator, most Americans do have minds I guess).

I do understand your point though. I'm Dutch, born in Rotterdam, which has blunt and pragmatic as local properties, but I'm young enough not to hate Germans as a general rule (plus it was the English who bombed Rotterdam anyway). Furthermore, I'm Western European, which makes me hesitant to anything pertaining to the "American dream" or "American ways".

It's an identity thing. Important thing is to not let that get the best of you in a debate, because there's always a chance the other party may be right, and those kind of preconceptions can really mess up a person's view on things.


----------



## FaxMachine1234

mossystate said:


> I do believe the ' um '...the ' , '...and...the ' ? ', should just be removed from the title of this thread.



I advocate they all be changed to random symbols to make it look like I was swearing. "There's one new response to '@^&#@ Hyde Park $#*!'


----------



## Surlysomething

So, basically Hyde Park is just this thread now, right? :doh:


----------



## collared Princess

Webmaster said:


> This is actually a thought-provoking statement. I AM American, and have been for longer than many posters here have been alive. But I wasn't born here. I am also Swiss, and that'll to some extent always define me, both in my view of the world and a residual accent.
> 
> But while I am Swiss, I am also Swiss GERMAN as opposed to Swiss Italian or Swiss French. And while I am Swiss GERMAN, I am from ZURICH, and NOT from Bern or Basel (those guys talk slow and are terrible soccer players, respectively). And so on. There will always be categories that define us, to a greater or lesser extent, and the degree to which we define ourselves as this or that can form movements and dominate our lives, or not.


Yes that is very common..Philippe was born in the Congo then moved to Sweden when he was a year old,then on to the USA when he was 9 years old..He just got his citizenship 4 years ago as before he was a g-4 since he was a child of a diplomat..so he refers to himself as a citizen of the world..I think that suits him great..


----------



## Webmaster

Surlysomething said:


> So, basically Hyde Park is just this thread now, right? :doh:


 Now there's a thought.


----------



## mergirl

Webmaster said:


> Now there's a thought.


LMAO! indeed! although.... another thought is.. that political topics are actually being discussed ALL over Dimensions at the moment, BUT because its not a 'free for all' and there is risk of the thread just being shut down, we are discussing things in a respectful manner with each other. I think everything is political anyway and even 'fat' topics so far have meandered into discussions about, race, religion etc.. The way they might naturally do so in real life. hmmm.. its an interesting transition.


----------



## moore2me

mergirl said:


> LMAO! indeed! although.... another thought is.. that political topics are actually being discussed ALL over Dimensions at the moment, BUT because its not a 'free for all' and there is risk of the thread just being shut down, we are discussing things in a respectful manner with each other. *I think everything is political anyway and even 'fat' topics so far have meandered into discussions about, race, religion etc*.. The way they might naturally do so in real life. hmmm.. its an interesting transition.



*Moore's comments in blue:, 
I am just thinking outloud on paper here. Please, bear with me

First, mergirl has noted that almost any topic (included fat related ones), public discusssions will eventually turn to politics, religion, race and other controversial subjects.

Second, several senior and respected members of the DIMS community have stated their opinions that Hyde Park debates and verbal exchanges were no worse than the most respected law making elected houses of England and the USA. So, altho Hyde is at times a bit of a "dog fight", it is within the customary boundaries set by our governments. Note - I am note talking about following parlimentary procedures. Just talking like adults in civil languages and respecting the other person's position(s) and right to express it.*



Jane said:


> Moore, I've watched Parliment before, and they can get worse than HP ever did.





Admiral_Snackbar said:


> I will say it's both in RealLife and online. The interesting thing about Speaker's Corner is that the debates can be civil and heated depending on the topic. All the moderation does is keep out the freepers and the batshit crazy (or lowers it to a tolerable level).
> 
> I will agree in a few instances the need to be right is there, but more often than not I just want to scream "CITATION!?" because I have to wonder where the facts were pulled from.
> 
> 
> Trying to implement parliamentary procedures online is almost impossible. Even more so in a thread where you don't always have people coming to it for the same reasons. I've found there are around four types of posters for these kinds of topics: 1) Information only (I found this article, let's discuss), 2) Shit disturbers (ooh, this will really stick it to those goddamn libs!), who are mainly there to stir the pot, 3) The Look-At-Me-ers (I'm so cool I found this awesome post and now I'm going to go on a lengthy diatribe as to why it's the Absolute Truth(tm)), 4) The Obtuse (I found this article and I'm so MAD about it--and it turns out I completely misunderstood the scope/intent of the original topic).
> 
> Thank you, that's exactly right. I should have phrased it in terms of _I will respect your opinion only insofar as it's an INFORMED opinion_. It's the reason I get so infuriated about topics in science who are presented by someone who clearly has no idea of how science works in the first place, or who claims some font of medical knowledge beyond the ken of scores of PhDs and MDs, not that the latter group is devoid of forensic marvels overall--to me it comes down to two things; if you can't express it in figures it's not science, it's opinion and "anecdotes" are not equivalent to "data".





Ekim said:


> Actually, in Congress I think members don't even show up if they don't want to hear what someone has to say...




*So in conclusion, regarding the usefulness or existence of Hyde Park. . . .

HP gives us a place to continue discussions on politics, religion, social causes, history, and other causes that we have vexing our souls. Plus it gives new ideas to members who are in the process of forming their self images;


HP teaches the junior members of the DIMS community how to discuss these things in an appropriate way that is socially accepted. This makes them better citizens and improves their status in our society;
*

*If I'm not out of place & if anyone care's to hear one girl's opinion, I have a few other things that may or may not work in a modified HP (if there ever is such a critter).*


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## mango

mergirl said:


> Buuuuuut. To write a song about Irony that isn't Ironic...
> Isn't it Ironic?
> Don't you think?



It is!


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## Ernest Nagel

Reason #599 to keep HP closed: inability to just let something go. Some of you guys must have dead horse flogging muscles like steel bands?


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## Tooz

omg WHY is this thread still alive


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## Spanky

Tooz said:


> omg WHY is this thread still alive



Why? WHY?

Because like every swamp, sooner or later, the water level starts to go down, soon there is less room to move and the water becomes yellow, silty and muddy. 

We continue to struggle, trying to stay alive in the poisonous and soft clay-like ooze, working the gills harder and harder for less and less oxygen and......FLUSH.........finally, freedom. 


But enough about a goldfish being dropped into a college dorm bathroom toilet. 



It is here because it NEEDS to be here.


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## stan_der_man

Tooz said:


> omg WHY is this thread still alive



I think because here in Dimensions, the way to minimize the carnage of train wreckage is simply to pile more train wreckage on top of the old...



Just a theory...


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## Chef

Sometimes a derailment is so bad, and the cars aren't worth salvaging; that the railroad will simply dig a big deep hole and bury the lot.


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## Spanky

Why is this thread still alive?

Can't we just say "it's Bush's fault" and make 95% of people posting here happy?




ps/ then Bio can post a gazilliony bazillion political cartoons in COLOR backing up the position I wrote above in quotes.......or the opposite......or not.


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## Admiral_Snackbar

fa_man_stan said:


> I think because here in Dimensions, the way to minimize the carnage of train wreckage is simply to pile more train wreckage on top of the old...
> 
> Just a theory...


Well, it worked for the Chernobyl disaster (it's still there, burning away, just buried under gigatons of concrete).



Spanky said:


> Why is this thread still alive?
> 
> Can't we just say "it's Bush's fault" and make 95% of people posting here happy?
> 
> 
> 
> ps/ then Bio can post a gazilliony bazillion political cartoons in COLOR backing up the position I wrote above in quotes.......or the opposite......or not.


I'm actually reveling in the fact this is a BDM-free zone. Let's not go taking potshots in the direction of that particular box of TNT, shall we?


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## Seth Warren

Tooz said:


> omg WHY is this thread still alive



Because your god is either dead or has abandoned you.


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## Miss Vickie

Seth Warren said:


> Because your god is either dead or has abandoned you.



See now, I was going to say that it's alive because people keep posting to it!

Like me! See? I just kept this thread alive, too! 

We're DOOMED!


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## Admiral_Snackbar

Seth Warren said:


> Because your god is either dead or has abandoned you.


Let's not get this one closed like the atheism thread. I'm tempted to start a little Lutheran vs. Anabaptist discussion in the Christian thread so I can get it closed in a like manner.


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## Spanky

Admiral_Snackbar said:


> Let's not get this one closed like the atheism thread. I'm tempted to start a little Lutheran vs. Anabaptist discussion in the Christian thread so I can get it closed in a like manner.



Or we could dredge up the whole Hillary versus Obama saga Seth went through. 


Breaking out in hives yet, Seth?? SETH? 


<Spanky runs off to get topical treatment>


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## TotallyReal




----------



## FatAndProud




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## butch

Oh no, does Jesus need a remedial course in grammar, too?


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## SparklingBBW

butch said:


> Oh no, does Jesus need a remedial course in grammar, too?



I R RISN

Murder = FAIL

<3 1 N other.

.


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## Spanky

Genarose54 said:


> I R RISN
> 
> Murder = FAIL
> 
> <3 1 N other.
> 
> .



I smell a new bumper sticker to go right next to those fishy things.


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## frankman

Is that picture taken before or after he invented the high-five?


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## FatAndProud




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## Green Eyed Fairy

"Jesus loves you.......everyone else thinks you're an asshole"


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## Seth Warren

Spanky said:


> Or we could dredge up the whole Hillary versus Obama saga Seth went through.
> 
> 
> Breaking out in hives yet, Seth?? SETH?
> 
> 
> <Spanky runs off to get topical treatment>



We have a tepid President but a good Secretary of State.


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## Santaclear

What about we call it Hind Park and just post rump pics?


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## CleverBomb

FatAndProud said:


>


Jesus Saves!
Pass to Gretsky -- Gretsky SCORES!

-Rusty


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## Admiral_Snackbar

In my mind nothing will top the Armor of God PJs.


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## frankman

Different times... 

View attachment j2.jpg


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## mergirl

Yeah.. maby someone should call the vet out to put this thread out of its misery! Off to thread heaven..think its kinna slowing down now though.. maby.. You know a thread is on its way out when the loljesus come out! haha


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## Admiral_Snackbar

mergirl said:


> Yeah.. maby someone should call the vet out to put this thread out of its misery! Off to thread heaven..think its kinna slowing down now though.. maby.. You know a thread is on its way out when the loljesus come out! haha


In other news, Satan tricks us yet again by planting a "100 million year old" termite in amber. The only termites from today were the ones that came from the Ark after it landed on Ararat. Every other explanation is just godless, liberal hippie-talk.


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## mergirl

hmm that pesky satan, always tricking us like that!!


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