# So what about confidence?



## olwen (Jul 18, 2009)

So it's been said by other bbws that just being told to be confident won't fix or cure self any esteem issues we as bbws may have, and I can see how this could be true, but at the same time I don't see how trying to instill confidence can be a bad thing either. So the question is how do we find confidence? If it isn't with platittudes from FAs or even from other women, then how can we help each other build up confidence? Is this even something we should be spending lots of time on? What I mean by that is, should we focus on other things like health, career, family instead? Would just being good at being workers or mothers or artists or anything other than sexual beings be a good way to get confidence? That then makes me wonder how are we even defining confidence? When people say we should be confident do they mean sexual confidence or just overall confidence. I'm starting to think there are different kinds of confidence.....thoughts?


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## StarWitness (Jul 18, 2009)

I act. 

I love doing theater. Confident StarWitness is just another role. I decide to hold my body a certain way, move a certain way, speak a certain way, have a certain default facial expression. I intentionally project confidence and competence.

Sometimes I even manage to convince myself.


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## comaseason (Jul 18, 2009)

I think there are most definitely different types of confidence. For instance I am very confident in my ability and talent in my chosen profession. I know what needs to be done and when and why, and if I don't know I know what questions to ask and I'm not afraid to ask them. My social life is something entirely different. I have a hard time making friends and I'm constantly second guessing myself... I lack confidence that people would want to be around me. 

As far as building confidence I just keep on trying different things until something works. And I do subscribe to a kind of "fake it till you make it" approach. 

One thing that I have tried recently to combat my somewhat negative body image was I took nude photographs of myself. I forced myself to look at every frame I took and spend time just getting comfortable with how I look. I think it's actually helped me. Looking at a photograph is very different from looking in the mirror. I saw myself differently. I started seeing the beauty. I do notice myself walking a little straighter these days.


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## katherine22 (Jul 18, 2009)

comaseason said:


> I think there are most definitely different types of confidence. For instance I am very confident in my ability and talent in my chosen profession. I know what needs to be done and when and why, and if I don't know I know what questions to ask and I'm not afraid to ask them. My social life is something entirely different. I have a hard time making friends and I'm constantly second guessing myself... I lack confidence that people would want to be around me.
> 
> As far as building confidence I just keep on trying different things until something works. And I do subscribe to a kind of "fake it till you make it" approach.
> 
> One thing that I have tried recently to combat my somewhat negative body image was I took nude photographs of myself. I forced myself to look at every frame I took and spend time just getting comfortable with how I look. I think it's actually helped me. Looking at a photograph is very different from looking in the mirror. I saw myself differently. I started seeing the beauty. I do notice myself walking a little straighter these days.



Although I have confidence in myself that does not mean that someone will necessarily be attracted to me. Conversing on Dims has allowed me to work on this issue of fear in being alone. I can be alone and still have a meaningful life and knowing that contributes to my confidence.


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## tinkerbell (Jul 18, 2009)

For me, I've been working really hard at getting rid of all those negative thoughts about my body that were streaming in my head a lot. I stopped focusing on the things I hated, and started focusing on the things I loved. When I look in the mirror, I no longer think that I look gross, or ugly or any other negative word, and think I look pretty hot  

And also running and biking just helped too. When I finished my first mt biking trail, I felt so accomplished. And confident that I could do anything. It sounds corny and silly, but I was amazed that I could do it, and finish it, and loved it. I felt that same way after I was able to do the full sets of jumping jacks in a DVD without stopping and actually jumping, after I ran my first mile, biked 25 miles, and ran/walked 3 miles. So I guess seeing the different things that my body can DO, rather than just HOW it LOOKS makes me feel confident in my body. 

And it helps that I have someone in my life who is constantly telling me how hot, sexy, and beautiful I am.


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## thatgirl08 (Jul 18, 2009)

The more accepting I become of my body, the more confidence I naturally have. 

Also, like StarWitness, I act confident even when I am not. If I'm in a situation where I'm nervous or feel shy, if I force myself to be confident/outgoing, I usually end up feeling more confident after awhile.


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## olwen (Jul 18, 2009)

StarWitness said:


> I act.
> 
> I love doing theater. Confident StarWitness is just another role. I decide to hold my body a certain way, move a certain way, speak a certain way, have a certain default facial expression. I intentionally project confidence and competence.
> 
> Sometimes I even manage to convince myself.



Wouldn't you have to have some kind of confidence to get up on stage and perform in front of people? I'd say that wasn't fake.


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## olwen (Jul 18, 2009)

comaseason said:


> I think there are most definitely different types of confidence. For instance I am very confident in my ability and talent in my chosen profession. I know what needs to be done and when and why, and if I don't know I know what questions to ask and I'm not afraid to ask them. My social life is something entirely different. I have a hard time making friends and I'm constantly second guessing myself... I lack confidence that people would want to be around me.
> 
> As far as building confidence I just keep on trying different things until something works. And I do subscribe to a kind of "fake it till you make it" approach.
> 
> One thing that I have tried recently to combat my somewhat negative body image was I took nude photographs of myself. I forced myself to look at every frame I took and spend time just getting comfortable with how I look. I think it's actually helped me. Looking at a photograph is very different from looking in the mirror. I saw myself differently. I started seeing the beauty. I do notice myself walking a little straighter these days.



My way to confidence has always been to just not care what other people think, tho when I was younger that approach often led to foot in mouth syndrome. I still don't care much what people think, but I have learned to keep my foot out of my mouth. I just figured people were gonna say and think whatever they are gonna think about me as a fat person no matter what I say or do or wear, so it was pointless to worry about it. Rather, I'm selective about when to care, like for a job interview or at a doctor's office....

I'm starting to realize that I have more confidence in my social life than I do in my work life. Having a boss at work who encourages us to throw out marketing ideas and really own our work has helped me with confidence on the job. I still second guess myself sometimes, but when I have those moments getting opinions from my co-workers helps. I'm still trying to get the hang of fighting for my ideas when I think they are good tho. I like it better when I throw out an idea and everybody runs with it.

I've done the photo thing too, and that did help me become comfortable with my shape. It's also helped me figure out what kinds of clothing cuts look good on me too.


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## comaseason (Jul 18, 2009)

olwen said:


> Having a boss at work who encourages us to throw out marketing ideas and really own our work has helped me with confidence on the job. I still second guess myself sometimes, but when I have those moments getting opinions from my co-workers helps. I'm still trying to get the hang of fighting for my ideas when I think they are good tho. *I like it better when I throw out an idea and everybody runs with it.*
> 
> I've done the photo thing too, and that did help me become comfortable with my shape. It's also helped me figure out what kinds of clothing cuts look good on me too.



You're the idea starter! That is a very awesome quality to have. I can't tell you how many tedious meetings I've been in where I wished that I, or someone else, would be able to throw something out that everyone could grab a hold of. It's not very common to be able to do that.


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## Sweet Tooth (Jul 18, 2009)

I get a lot of compliments from people - fat and thin - about my confidence level. Not in an annoying, self-righteous way [okay, sometimes], but in an "I wish I could have a fraction of what you have" sort of way. I have had more than a handful of people say that I inspired them to feel better about themselves. I don't know how or why, but I guess living as an example is my thing.

I didn't come by any confidence I have without a lot of struggle. It's taken a lot of years of immersing myself in size acceptance and believing God that He did a good work in me to get here. I purposely try to take out negative influences like movies that bash fat people or magazines that tout diet plans constantly. Sometimes you have to distance yourself from things even that you like. It's amazing, though, how it perpetuates... I tried teaching my nieces and nephews at a very young age about beauty in all forms, and in turn they found me beautiful which bolstered my image when I could see my beauty through their eyes. Telling me I felt like a heated pillow wasn't an insult when they loved to cuddle with me.

HOWEVER.... and this is really where I still struggle... I feel sometimes like a Monet. Like I can look pretty together from a distance, but it's a constant source of worry that people won't like my quirks once they get too close. I mean, I think everyone has a right to their personality and preferences so long as they treat others with manners and civility. I don't think there's anything wrong with being an introverted night owl with a tendency to buy way too many books and use too many brackets and ellipses when typing. I've had enough controlling people in my life, people who knew how to push buttons about things that are truly matters of preference or people who have to control by any of your insecurities at their disposal to not be on the edge sometimes. And it's the physical stuff... the things that I only have so much control over without drastic measures or side effects [because, hey, we don't get to choose our genetic makeup]... that throw me over the edge sometimes. I know I can look decent for a time, but hair grows back in places a girl doesn't want hair and skin gets oily and makeup wears off. And when I'm sleeping, sometimes I snore and drool. I can't spend my life on guard against those things.

What it comes down to is this: in a relationship, will someone think it's worth it to deal with *all* that is me? THAT is where I lack confidence. I haven't had a good track record, and yet I don't want to worry so much that this area of insecurity is what actually drives someone away.


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## Donna (Jul 18, 2009)

olwen said:


> So it's been said by other bbws that just being told to be confident won't fix or cure self any esteem issues we as bbws may have, and I can see how this could be true, but at the same time I don't see how trying to instill confidence can be a bad thing either.



Ive brought the following quotes from other threads; I hope the posters dont mind. I think they hit on something that has been bothering me for a while with regard to confidence and its role in our lives. 



Friday said:


> *snip* I've been insulted so many times, usually by men, that I've lost track. That asshole that told me it was 'happy hour, not hippo hour' didn't say it because I don't like myself. Those people that snicker, point or roll their eyes at your order in a restaurant or grocery basket at the store aren't doing it because I don't like myself either. *snip*





mossystate said:


> I confess I am more than a little tired of how fat women are pretty much the only people who are picked apart for not being confident 24 hours a day. *snip*



As has previously been discussed, confidence is not the all healing salve its often portrayed to be. It hurts me when people dismiss the very real hurt some of us have felt by saying if we were only more confident we wouldnt attract the hurt. 

I consider myself pretty confident. I have times when I am shaky in my confidence, thats part of being a mere human. But for the most part, I know who I am, I accept my weaknesses alongside my strengths and I concentrate energy on turning the weaknesses into strengths or developing coping mechanisms when I cannot. I consider that to be the root of confidence. I acknowledge I havent always had the best self confidence, and that it has been a battle to develop the average esteem that most people probably take for granted. 



olwen said:


> So the question is how do we find confidence? If it isn't with platittudes from FAs or even from other women, then how can we help each other build up confidence? Is this even something we should be spending lots of time on?



We can encourage and complement each other, give advice and share our experiences, but beyond that I truly believe developing confidence in oneself has to come from within. In my experience, I find self awareness can be a painful process. But I think the rewards we reap from the process are worth the pain. And yes, it is definitely something we should be spending lots of time on. Anything we learn from is worthwhile. 



olwen said:


> What I mean by that is, should we focus on other things like health, career, family instead? Would just being good at being workers or mothers or artists or anything other than sexual beings be a good way to get confidence? That then makes me wonder how are we even defining confidence? When people say we should be confident do they mean sexual confidence or just overall confidence. I'm starting to think there are different kinds of confidence.....thoughts?



Why not do both? I think when we work on aspects of our lives like health, career, family, relationships, etc. we are sending a message to our inner psyche that we love ourselves, were worth taking care of. Were taking charge of our lives, a concept in and of itself at the very core of being confident IMHO. Sexual confidence is only one aspect. And in my own experience, there is a danger in concentrating on only one aspect of our beings, especially the sexual part of ourselves. I made the mistake not too long ago of thinking putting my naked body on display was the secret to my self confidence. I sought confidence by taking my clothes off, but I found a great big piece of it when I put them back on.


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## Sugar (Jul 18, 2009)

I think our own self confidence is something that should be a priority in one's life. If you're not feeling good about yourself how can you put your best foot forward for those you love and care about?

As for different kinds of confidence, of course there are different kinds. I'm really confident in my element...hanging out with my male friends doing what we always do...sports and beer. Drop me off in the middle of a group of women and I'm at a loss. It's not that I don't like myself...I'm just unsure of how I come across and I just want to be liked. That normally backfires lol. 

Point is confidence comes in all shades of gray. I'm fully confident in some ways and a complete mess in others. For me putting myself out there and swallowing my pride and fear has made my confidence grow by leaps and bounds. I'd like to say that some wonderful friend has opened my eyes to my own qualities but most often in my eyes when people play the "You're so pretty & great" game...it rings hollow.


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## StarWitness (Jul 19, 2009)

olwen said:


> Wouldn't you have to have some kind of confidence to get up on stage and perform in front of people? I'd say that wasn't fake.



Heh, I was feeling kind of emo the other night. :blush:

I suppose that it does take confidence to perform, especially considering that public speaking is a major fear for a lot of people. For some reason, I've never had a problem with it. Sometimes I can't look someone in the eye during a normal conversation, but getting on stage in front of a hundred people gives me a huge adrenaline rush-- even to the point (sometimes) where I don't _care_ if the audience is judging me because I'm just so happy to be doing something I love. Weird, I know.  When I'm acting, though, my goal is to be someone else, and have as little of me and as much of my character in me as possible.

And yes, I do have confidence in my abilities as an actress. I don't think I'm good enough to be professional, but for community theater, I think I do well. I try to take that and apply it to other areas.


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## Tracyarts (Jul 20, 2009)

" When people say we should be confident do they mean sexual confidence or just overall confidence. I'm starting to think there are different kinds of confidence.....thoughts? "

Overall confidence is what people need to strive for. Sexual confidence is part ot it, but our sexuality is just one part of who we are. If you place too much importance on building your sexual confidence instead of your overall confidence level, then it becomes unbalanced. There are people out there who are very sexually confident, but unfortuantely feel that it is the only thing they have going for them. When they feel a lack of confidence in other aspects of their being, and start feeling self-conscious and insecure because of it, it makes them start looking for validation of their worth via their sexuality, and that can lead to some really destructive behavior.

Tracy


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## kayrae (Jul 21, 2009)

> how do we find confidence?



I find confidence in being femme, so retail therapy most definitely works for me. New hairstyles, pretty dresses, cute ballet flats, a striking piece of jewelry... I feel beautiful when I'm wearing beautiful things. Superficial materialism be damned --- I spent a lot of wasted years hiding myself in men's clothes and behind a long tangled mess of hair. 

I use fashion as a means to be comfortable with myself and with my body. Three months ago I bought my first tube dress because I wanted to get over my fear of showing too much of my fat self. I practiced wearing the dress at home for a a week, then wore it at a DIMs meet-up. I now own two tube dresses!



> If it isn't with platitudes from FAs or even from other women, then how can we help each other build up confidence?



The men and women I've met through Dimensions helped build my confidence. The friendships I've developed through the SF Bay Area meet-ups is invaluable to me. It's one thing to read about size acceptance, it's another thing to actually experience it. As members of this website, we can help each other out by extending real-life friendships with one another. One night Kali talked to me for FOUR HOURS at Denny's because I was broken-hearted. Another night Tim had coffee with me and let me wahwahwah about my daddy issues. It's nice to know that I have friends who will be sensitive to my emotional needs as a fat woman. I believe this new forum is an excellent opportunity for all of us to build each other up.

I'm not gonna lie. I am one judgmental biznatch. But I'm liking the kind of dialogue that we're having because we're allowing ourselves to discuss our hurts, and to also celebrate ourselves as beautiful women.


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## Tau (Jul 21, 2009)

Confidence can only come from within. I think women as a whole suffer from lack of confidence because we base so much of how we feel and how we perceive ourselves on the views and perspectives of others. Most women are hyper conscious of being looked at constantly and often being found wanting. The reality though is that people are always going to look, they are always going to comment, there is always going to be somebody else who feels awful enough about themselves that they want to make you feel like shit. You're going to hear good things and bad things all the time, especially if you happen to fall outside the norm. But you can't internalise that kind of outside opinion forever. 

As children our worlds are pretty much based on the love, affection and approval of others. The temptation to keep on living our lives as adult women based on those same things is enormous but dangerous. The only love, affection and approval that should matter is what you give yourself. I've heard so many girls speak about how they hate certain parts of their bodies but are OK with them as long as a few random guys on the internet think they're hot! That for me is a concern because what if nobody finds you hot - whether in reality or on the virtual world!!? 

I'm not denying that positive environments; places to discuss your strengths and fears and joys; family, lovers and friends who adore you and think you're just amazing - all these things are important and yes, we can help in providing a dialogue here that contributes to that. But real confidence, the kind that keeps you happy when you're 95 and your parents and husband and pet dog have passed away and your boobs touch your knees and you can barely see and nobody wants to do you  - that kind of confidence can only be created and nurtured by the individual .


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## olwen (Jul 21, 2009)

There are so many good posts in this thread so far I don't even know where to start....

Tau, you are right in that confidence does have to come from within, but it's the how to do that part that is often alluded to around these parts. I've had to really think about where my confidence comes from, and I'm not sure - anger maybe. It pisses me off that people like to put fat folks in boxes, and my response to that has always been to say "fuck you, I do what I want." That attitude has served me well, but it isn't always appropriate, you know. I realized too that not feeling feminine was where I lacked confidence. I've dealt with that by examining what it means to be feminine and to not automatically reject some of those notions just because they didn't apply to me. I had to make those notions fit my body. Now I love all that girly stuff I used to despise. I've noticed too I get more male attention when I wear skirts and dresses. I no longer worry so much about whether my fat bits are feminine or not. They are because I say they are and anyone who doesn't think so can go screw. Wait, I had a point...oh right, how can people who don't feel that confidence feel it from within?

Tracy, I get what you're saying about sexual confidence. I feel tho like sexual confidence is extremely important when you are fat since fat is so often desexualized. It's like you become a nonperson. Of course so much of that has to do with society's expectations from women....hearing plattidues from men was certainly helpful when I was younger, but now half the time I view those same platitudes as sexual harassement which just pisses me off, so in that regard yes, you're right overall confidence probably can't be had in that way. Still tho, there's the question of how to build up that confidence? I know the answer to that is probably elusive and difficult, but I still feel like there's got to be some meaningful way to express that.


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## Fascinita (Jul 21, 2009)

What about chutzpah?!


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## olwen (Jul 21, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> What about chutzpah?!



What are you Meschuga? Depends on your moxy.


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## olwen (Jul 21, 2009)

Donna said:


> Ive brought the following quotes from other threads; I hope the posters dont mind. I think they hit on something that has been bothering me for a while with regard to confidence and its role in our lives.
> 
> As has previously been discussed, confidence is not the all healing salve its often portrayed to be. It hurts me when people dismiss the very real hurt some of us have felt by saying if we were only more confident we wouldnt attract the hurt.
> 
> ...



Donna, you rock! :bow:


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## olwen (Jul 21, 2009)

comaseason said:


> You're the idea starter! That is a very awesome quality to have. I can't tell you how many tedious meetings I've been in where I wished that I, or someone else, would be able to throw something out that everyone could grab a hold of. It's not very common to be able to do that.



You know you're right. I got the media job that quite a few of my thin friends never could get in a competitive industry that is hard to break into. I get to be creative on a weekly basis. Not gonna lie either, knowing all that has sometimes made me feel kinda cocky, so I really shouldn't feel like I can't handle it some days. I wouldn't have gotten or kept the job if I couldn't. Thanks. :happy: :bow:


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## Tania (Jul 22, 2009)

I think there are different types of confidence, but they're all interrelated to a a degree.

Confidence-building requires investment, but not just by you. Certainly, you've got to make an effort to be a type of person you can respect and admire, but your loved ones (and others who admire you but find your confidence lacking) have to contribute more than just the platitudes. Valuable contributions are often pretty simple; a heartfelt compliment, congratulations on a job well done, a sympathetic ear...

Confidence doesn't spawn parthenogenically, immediate and fully-fledged. It's a lifelong process. Sometimes it takes a lot of time, soul-searching, and piece-fitting to find it, and even then it's not un fait accompli. Probably the best way to help BBWs build confidence is from childhood - all young women and men deserve to grow up feeling valued and valuable. That's the crux of it, I guess - you can't expect to undo years of conditioning with a single remark. It's unrealistic, not to mention utterly insensitive and douchey.


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## StarWitness (Jul 22, 2009)

olwen said:


> I've had to really think about where my confidence comes from, and I'm not sure - anger maybe. It pisses me off that people like to put fat folks in boxes, and my response to that has always been to say "fuck you, I do what I want."



I can definitely relate to that; there have been times where being an angry, contrary feminist type has pushed me towards being confident and fabulous (or at least as fabulous as someone so glitter-averse as yours truly can get). Still, I've found it problematic because I'm still feeding (ha) off other peoples' reactions and opinions-- real or perceived. I haven't yet gotten to the point where I can use that as a springboard to a more self-sustaining sense of confidence.


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## Tooz (Jul 22, 2009)

Confidence, to me, is just going out and doing what I do. I live in my body as a thin person would live in theirs-- put cookies in my shopping cart if I feel like it, swim at a public pool in a tankini, even if it DOES bare my stomach, etc. If people stare, I stare them down. I find, for the most part, by simply expecting to be socially acceptable, I am pretty much socially acceptable. Maybe this part of Maine is chunkier, but people seem pretty good with it. It also helps that I am generally affable-- if I see someone smiling at the conversation I'm having with a friend, I'll start to include them. I don't know, somewhere along the line I started not thinking "WHAT IF THEY DON'T LIKE HOW I LOOK/WHATEVER" and just started expecting, assuming I'd be treated the same. It's not really linked to my self esteem at all-- I still have days where I wake up and hate what I see, but it's not relevant to...well, anything else.

Plus, I somehow have the "do NOT mess with me" vibe. No one does. It's probably good for them that they don't.


.


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## jewels_mystery (Jul 22, 2009)

I am very confident. As someone mentioned before it started when I began to accept myself for me. I do not try to live up to or want to be what someone else wants me to be. I am a ssbbw and proud. I may have my faults but everyone else does also. I am here, so deal with it. lol


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## debz-aka (Jul 22, 2009)

olwen said:


> So the question is how do we find confidence? If it isn't with* platittudes from FAs or even from other women*, then how can we help each other build up confidence? ?



I found this word choice interesting: platitude - noun
1. a flat, dull, or trite remark, esp. one uttered as if it were fresh or profound.
2. the quality or state of being flat, dull, or trite: the platitude of most political oratory. 

I think one of the first ways to build confidence is to simply not consider compliments as platitudes. I'm not saying this to be bitchy, I mean it. When I managed a bakery I had the most amazing experience. When I told the male bakers that their bread looked good they'd say "Thanks". When I told the women bakers,they would immediately tell me everything wrong with the bread, or another item they had just baked. I finally one day stopped one of my women bakers and said "I'm going to try this again. I'm going to compliment you on your good work. All I want you to do is simply say 'thank you' and then stand there and know how good you are." It took several of the women many tries to accomplish this goal. 

I think confidence is harder for women; we simply don't have the thousands of years of politic and fiscal power that men have had. For many generations our power was often used to attract a mate who would provide for us. Here today on this page, we are trying to except large size bodies while the world informs us that we are sick (obesity disease?) and that anyone attracted to us is some kind of pervert. If we don't all shine with self confidence, I think we have some good reasons why. Maybe, just for today olwen let someone compliment you and really just sit and experience that good feeling of being appreciated. When negative thoughts come up, push them gently away, and bask in that feeling, that's what I had to do to slowly build my confidence.


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## StarWitness (Jul 22, 2009)

debz-aka said:


> I think one of the first ways to build confidence is to simply not consider compliments as platitudes. I'm not saying this to be bitchy, I mean it.



I do agree that a lot of us have problems taking a compliment gracefully; Lord knows I do. I've come to realize that when I respond to a compliment with self-criticism, it comes across as incredibly rude; someone is trying to do something nice, I really shouldn't smack them down. 

Still, even when someone says something positive to me, even when it sinks in to my stubborn brain, it's not the same as realizing for myself that I'm not a flaw golem.

I've also been in the situation where my ex would get frustrated that I still got down on myself even after he complimented me, and I would get pissed at him for assuming that he could "fix" me, and then I wouldn't want to take his stupid praise. I'm not saying that's always the case, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone reading this could relate.

Also, it's not just compliments. The worn advice, although probably well-meaning, can come across as really condescending, and even work in reverse. Blowing my problems off by trying to placate me with the first thing that comes to your mind doesn't do much to make me feel like a worthwhile person.


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## AshleyEileen (Jul 22, 2009)

Tooz said:


> Confidence, to me, is just going out and doing what I do. I live in my body as a thin person would live in theirs-- put cookies in my shopping cart if I feel like it, swim at a public pool in a tankini, even if it DOES bare my stomach, etc. If people stare, I stare them down. I find, for the most part, by simply expecting to be socially acceptable, I am pretty much socially acceptable. Maybe this part of Maine is chunkier, but people seem pretty good with it. It also helps that I am generally affable-- if I see someone smiling at the conversation I'm having with a friend, I'll start to include them. I don't know, somewhere along the line I started not thinking "WHAT IF THEY DON'T LIKE HOW I LOOK/WHATEVER" and just started expecting, assuming I'd be treated the same. It's not really linked to my self esteem at all-- I still have days where I wake up and hate what I see, but it's not relevant to...well, anything else.
> 
> Plus, I somehow have the "do NOT mess with me" vibe. No one does. It's probably good for them that they don't.
> 
> ...



Over and over and over again.


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## superodalisque (Jul 22, 2009)

wow! excellent thread. ty. this is an issue very close to my heart and i have often thought about how to approach it. i don't know what the correct answer is but i do know that giving in is NOT a way to be happy or content with your life. i understand that people have pressures, health issues and other realities to deal with but so does every other human being. thinking otherwise is childish, self defeating, and being willfully ignorant. so instead of wallowing beneath every life challenge its important to have a mind to overcome it. 

many women who are fat have a serious issue with clinical depression that they sometimes refuse to deal with. clinical depression makes people feel hopeless. it makes people feel that nothing will change and why try. so it can be a vicious cycle when it cames to being fat. it makes people believe in all of the negative thoughts that can come from being fat and even creates self fulfilling prophecies like "i will always be alone" no one will ever want me" my weight will kill me" i can't be a success in business because no one likes looking at a fat person" "i can't go out because people will look at me and i'll be embarrassed". i think the depression is like a fog people can't see through. its a demon always whispering in a persons ear trying to take thier joy in life away. they can't see that what most people don't like about fat is the percieved misery it brings with it or the kind of attitudes that fat women often have . no one wants to associate with a 24/7 pity party, constant sarcasm anger or hostility. especially when the person engaging in it might be so mired down in depression that they experience the inability to change or refuse to acknowledge or take an action they might not have the emotional energy to undertake. so often when we feel we can't we are antagonistic toward those who can and do.

i'm beginning to wonder... dims is supposed to be about celebrating being fat and enjoying fat. but i really see very little of that most of the time. and when someone has found a way to it is criticised. i think its very hard for the people who are so miserable in their fat bodies to believe that there might actually be people who can enjoy it. i think you can enjoy it but only if you take control of it. the minute that your body is totally controlling you and your life and emotions you have lost. your fighting a battle against yourself. your body should not be your enemy but your, friend your temple, and your earthly pleasure. if its not you have to re-evaluate that. either your attitude or your body has to change. refusing to recognize that is willful self punishment. but i often think people mainly refuse because they are afraid they will have to act and they don't have the courage. they might have to actually learn to love themselves as they are and they feel ugly. they might have to lose weight and they are afraid because they have chosen a partner based on the fact that he only likes a fat body and they are well aware of the consequences of that. so they allow fear to be thier prime motivator.

for those who think confidence isn't a big deal--i'm afraid for you. confidence is everything. its the thing that enables you to value yourself. when you value yourself you can love other people and appreciate the world you live in. your not mired in depression and looking around for enemies to blame it on. you don't have to be right even if you are wrong just to protect yourself from having to do the hard work of looking at yourself and making hard changes. i don't think society, the world or FAs have anything at all to do with self esteem. they owe a fat woman nothing but she owes herself everything. that would include self confidence which is a an indicator of a healthy mind.

people who refuse to acknowledge that know deep down that they don't have the positive view of thier life that they should. but they'd rather pretend because they think that its easier not to face life. but in the end it makes things worse. it keeps people unhealthy, selfhating and hateful of other people. in order to really get some confidence we have to push ourselves. living is not always comfortable. you can't be afraid to live. and in order to live well we have to take care of our mental health. we have to go to the doc. and if one isn't doing us any good we have to love ourselves enough to keep going to others , maybe try meditation, get hypnotized or whatever it takes. we need to get counseling, psychological and psychiatric help when we need it to cope with the tough issues that come our way. we can't go on pretending that we should just accept that when someone is fat they should be miserable because that is not the kind of acceptance SA is talking about. we can't just bury ourselves wrapped up in negative thoughts like a shroud and hide ourselves away.

ok rant over


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## Keb (Jul 23, 2009)

StarWitness said:


> I do agree that a lot of us have problems taking a compliment gracefully; Lord knows I do. I've come to realize that when I respond to a compliment with self-criticism, it comes across as incredibly rude; someone is trying to do something nice, I really shouldn't smack them down.



I've been working hard on this. It's not easy to overcome the modesty and doubt that leads to answering a compliment with "Nah" or "no way" and variations on that theme. Nobody wants to take a compliment and wind up sounding full of themselves, either--but I think I've found the middle ground.

I do my best to say "Thank you!" and stop right there (unless it naturally lends itself to a conversational topic). I'm pretty sure that protesting, whatever the excuse, is just another form of compliment fishing when I do it...so I'm trying very hard not to let myself do it.


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## Tooz (Jul 23, 2009)

AshleyEileen said:


> Over and over and over again.



Heh that kind of sounds like part of this hi hop song I have.


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## butch (Jul 23, 2009)

I think I have something of use to say in this conversation, but it might take me some time to get there, so be patient.

Superodalisque mentioned the idea that a lot of times we as fat women think we can't get a particular job because we're fat. I know I still think that a lot, even as I've worked through a lot of other confidence killing issues about fat.

The other day as I was riding the bus in the heart of DC's lobby/influence peddling downtown, I noticed this man crossing the street who was very fat, and most of that largeness was in his butt and hips area. An unusual shape for a man, I'd claim, and yet by his style of dress and the appearance of his companion, I'd bet he worked at one of the shiny imposing offices that surrounded us, or at least one of the government agencies that litter all of the DC area.

This isn't the first time I've noticed a SSBHM walking aorund government agencies and such who look like they are part of the white collar class, but I can't say I see as many women of similar sizes in the same situations. Is this my own skewed vision, because I still cling to the idea that SSBBWs have a hard time finding decent employment, or is there a disparity between the types of jobs that are open to SSBHM and SSBBWs? I don't know.

In any event, I do know of people who post on this board who are women at larger sizes than me who do have white-collar jobs, so why can't I use their example as a way to increase my own confidence in this area? In all other areas, I pretty much act like Tooz describes for herself, and I too have my own 'don't mess with me vibe' that I don't even have to work at that keeps me from getting the fat-hatin crap that is out there. But the job thing is my achillies heel!

Hmm, did that have anything to do with the discussion?


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## AshleyEileen (Jul 23, 2009)

Tooz said:


> Heh that kind of sounds like part of this hi hop song I have.



Please tell me it's not this: 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voHt52tsT1U

That was playing at LB yesterday and I wanted to die.


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## SparklingBBW (Jul 23, 2009)

butch said:


> I think I have something of use to say in this conversation, but it might take me some time to get there, so be patient.
> 
> Superodalisque mentioned the idea that a lot of times we as fat women think we can't get a particular job because we're fat. I know I still think that a lot, even as I've worked through a lot of other confidence killing issues about fat.
> 
> ...



Off topic about confidence, but I do want to point out that I'm not surprised by what you are seeing in DC Butchie. I don't remember people getting all upset about C. Everett Koops' size when he was surgeon general, but the new lady? Everybody has an opinion about her weight and how "fit" she would or wouldn't be as the surgeon G. 

.

p.s. I'm job hunting right now, and I have to admit it is hard to maintain my usual level of natural bravado when faced with job interview prospects. This is making me lean toward temping for a while as their standards are generally more relaxed cause it behooves them to put people's asses in work chairs. Not proud of that line of thinkin but since the cats won't get jobs themselves, I gotta do what I gotta do to bring home the catnip. 

g


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## Tooz (Jul 23, 2009)

AshleyEileen said:


> Please tell me it's not this:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voHt52tsT1U
> 
> That was playing at LB yesterday and I wanted to die.



Haha no, it's this ...christian hip hop dude. It's kinda geek hip hop but I love him.


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## olwen (Jul 23, 2009)

butch said:


> I think I have something of use to say in this conversation, but it might take me some time to get there, so be patient.
> 
> Superodalisque mentioned the idea that a lot of times we as fat women think we can't get a particular job because we're fat. I know I still think that a lot, even as I've worked through a lot of other confidence killing issues about fat.
> 
> ...




I'd say this is very much on topic. The job situation is where I have confidence issues too. It's been the only part of my life where feeling not confident has stymied me at times. I'm sure you have something there about gender bias when it comes to the working world, but you know there are jobs where fat men will be at a very clear disadvantage like being a lawyer. I guess the only thing to do is be really good at whatever it is we do so no one can say we aren't qualified, tho the criticisms about the new Surgeon General doesn't help either...


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## luscious_lulu (Jul 23, 2009)

debz-aka said:


> When I managed a bakery I had the most amazing experience. When I told the male bakers that their bread looked good they'd say "Thanks". When I told the women bakers,they would immediately tell me everything wrong with the bread, or another item they had just baked. I finally one day stopped one of my women bakers and said "I'm going to try this again. I'm going to compliment you on your good work. All I want you to do is simply say 'thank you' and then stand there and know how good you are." It took several of the women many tries to accomplish this goal.



This doesn't surprise me. I often compliment people on their appearance and it's amazing at the number of women that will try to down play it or criticize themselves.


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## AshleyEileen (Jul 23, 2009)

Tooz said:


> Haha no, it's this ...christian hip hop dude. It's kinda geek hip hop but I love him.



....KJ-52?


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## olwen (Jul 23, 2009)

Ladies, nothing against odd music pairings, but please try to keep the convo on topic. Thanks.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Jul 26, 2009)

I personally think pride and confidence go hand in hand...If you like yourself and you realize that you have a lot of things to offer to the world then it shines through..If you go into any situation with your head held high knowing that no matter what you can accomplish anything you set your mind to..

Most of the time we are our own worse enemies...We set ourselves up to fail before we even try..I do not think that has anything to do with size more about being fearful of failing or maybe fearful of accomplishing something...With failure comes learning, with learning, comes eyes more open..I know it's not fun swimming through shit but sometimes it has to be done to get to the other side..Sometimes we have to hunker down and do what we don't like to move along in life..If you don't move forward you get stagnant then you wont have a very fulfilling life...That act of moving forward build confidence..The knowing you can and will get through life's obstacles is what builds confidence as well..

I hope this makes sense..It after 4 am and my brain is not work up to par..


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## Tooz (Jul 26, 2009)

olwen said:


> Ladies, nothing against odd music pairings, but please try to keep the convo on topic. Thanks.



...Then why not delete all the posts related to it?

...


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## olwen (Jul 26, 2009)

...Because a lone reminder to keep posts on topic when all the other posts are on topic doesn't make sense. It would be a weird non-sequitor. Anything off topic after the reminder will be deleted. 

Hope that helps and thank you for your cooperation.


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## olwen (Jul 26, 2009)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> I personally think pride and confidence go hand in hand...If you like yourself and you realize that you have a lot of things to offer to the world then it shines through..If you go into any situation with your head held high knowing that no matter what you can accomplish anything you set your mind to..
> 
> Most of the time we are our own worse enemies...We set ourselves up to fail before we even try..I do not think that has anything to do with size more about being fearful of failing or maybe fearful of accomplishing something...With failure comes learning, with learning, comes eyes more open..I know it's not fun swimming through shit but sometimes it has to be done to get to the other side..Sometimes we have to hunker down and do what we don't like to move along in life..If you don't move forward you get stagnant then you wont have a very fulfilling life...That act of moving forward build confidence..The knowing you can and will get through life's obstacles is what builds confidence as well..
> 
> I hope this makes sense..It after 4 am and my brain is not work up to par..



It makes total sense. I had quite a few teachers as a kid who wouldn't let us say things like "I can't." there was only lack of knowledge. I even had a math teacher who refused to give 100's saying that no one was perfect, which for me anyway served as a reminder to always look deeper for the answers, course asking for proof for square roots in the 9th grade didn't help me understand it any better....anyway, that has always stuck with me. Just cause you don't know how to do something doesn't mean you can't learn or try. That does instill some confidence too.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Jul 27, 2009)

I think it does....Knowing you accomplished something by yourself with very little or no help is great...


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## Keb (Aug 4, 2009)

Been ruminating over the phrase "confident BBW" for a while, thanks to reading some other threads. That seems to be what all the FA's demand and desire. But I'm not sure even they fully know what they mean when they throw that phrase out. There are so many levels of confidence. Do they just mean someone who isn't flat out depressed about being fat all the time? Is it a code word for "Not On A Diet"? Code for "One of the Paysite Girls"? 

I think of myself as a confident person most of the time. I'm willing to stand up for myself, others, and what I believe in when I think it's appropriate/necessary. I'm proud of what I've achieved, and set high goals for myself. I try to accept compliments and appreciate other people's good points as well. 

But I'm not a steam-engine of confidence, radiating pride in everything I could possibly be. I have doubts, for example, that anyone would really want to see me in the altogether. I worry that I haven't done enough in my life, and won't achieve the things I'd like to. I question myself and second-guess myself. And only some of that is at all related to my fatness. 

In other words, I'm pretty human--full of hopes and fears, love and insecurities. 

I wished on a star last night for love I could trust in, and then came inside and my mother went out of her way to make me a sandwich because there was nothing left of supper. It wasn't quite what I meant, but I guess I've had that wish all along. 

I know that seems unrelated--but maybe the FAs are wishing for something that doesn't exist, or that they could easily have simply by being confident in their own choices?


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## itsfine (Aug 4, 2009)

Confidence booster (not size related, but my size changes, so I need a one-size-fits all solution): 

Set a goal. Achieve it!

Repeat.

This tends to lead to more than just your confidence boosting (job performance, relationships, ect.)


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## olwen (Aug 4, 2009)

Keb said:


> Been ruminating over the phrase "confident BBW" for a while, thanks to reading some other threads. That seems to be what all the FA's demand and desire. But I'm not sure even they fully know what they mean when they throw that phrase out. There are so many levels of confidence. Do they just mean someone who isn't flat out depressed about being fat all the time? Is it a code word for "Not On A Diet"? Code for "One of the Paysite Girls"?



Wow, those are really good questions. I had never thought about that before and just assumed confident bbw to an FA meant not afraid to show arms, or not afraid to eat in public, or not afraid to have our fat bits touched, or just not hiding from fatness period...maybe the way I've been defining confidence for myself just means, being able to speak up and advocate for myself, not letting other people define me, and knowing that my critical thinking skills are usually (tho not always) in good working order...the way you put it makes it seem like they might expect us to be super women, which could be too much of an expectation....but when women do anything we expect a lot from ourselves too, like we can't just be moms, we have to be supermoms, we can't just be career women, we have to be The best at what we do otherwise we are failures to ourselves and all women somehow, like it's not enough that we just do our best....my thoughts about the topic seem to be all over the place right now I think. I feel like I'm rambling. This topic is just kinda difficult for me to really wrap my brain around in a meaningful way, and I'm really not sure why. I could just be overthinking it. The responses in this thread are great tho. All food for thought.


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## BubbleButtBabe (Aug 5, 2009)

I think all men want a confident woman on their arms,not just FAs...They want their woman to walk with her head held high,shoulders back and be proud to be a woman..Sometimes to be that way is very hard and I think we women are partially responsible for it..When we see someone like that it sets off an alarm in our heads..How many have probably made a comment about such a woman being uppity..Come on admit it you have at some time in your life..Or even said she acts like her shit don't stink..We do not take pride in the fact that said woman seems to have her life in order and is proud of that fact..

My son said one time that women are down right nasty,mean and cruel to each other when they fight..They try to tear each other to shreds..He said they try to make sure they hurt each other to the point there is no self esteem left..He couldn't believe how vial women were...Which is why I tried to teach my kids to fight about the problem and not to hurt the person..One small comment can tear a hole in the spirit that either never heals or takes forever to heal..

Maybe I am optimistic that we as women can finally stop having catfights over things in life and just enjoy each other..To be bonded together in sisterhood..To be uplifting to the other women in our lives and be proud of them and for them...I know that is a big fantasy..Sorry for the rambling but it is late and my brain is trying to get it all out there..


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## superodalisque (Aug 5, 2009)

BubbleButtBabe said:


> I think all men want a confident woman on their arms,not just FAs...They want their woman to walk with her head held high,shoulders back and be proud to be a woman..Sometimes to be that way is very hard and I think we women are partially responsible for it..When we see someone like that it sets off an alarm in our heads..How many have probably made a comment about such a woman being uppity..Come on admit it you have at some time in your life..Or even said she acts like her shit don't stink..We do not take pride in the fact that said woman seems to have her life in order and is proud of that fact..
> 
> My son said one time that women are down right nasty,mean and cruel to each other when they fight..They try to tear each other to shreds..He said they try to make sure they hurt each other to the point there is no self esteem left..He couldn't believe how vial women were...Which is why I tried to teach my kids to fight about the problem and not to hurt the person..One small comment can tear a hole in the spirit that either never heals or takes forever to heal..
> 
> Maybe I am optimistic that we as women can finally stop having catfights over things in life and just enjoy each other..To be bonded together in sisterhood..To be uplifting to the other women in our lives and be proud of them and for them...I know that is a big fantasy..Sorry for the rambling but it is late and my brain is trying to get it all out there..



your early morning ramblings are very good i have to say!


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## Carrie (Aug 5, 2009)

I have been thinking about these many possible meanings of "confident bbw" for a while now, particularly when the phrase is used by a FA. I actually wanted to start a thread asking for input from FAs on the topic in the FA forum, but then read that we're not supposed to ask questions there (I find that pretty perplexing, but alrighty), so I didn't. I think it'd be useful to hear both sides of this, if at all possible - what we perceive when we hear it, and what they might actually mean when they say it. I'm not sure how to achieve that with the current bylaws of both boards, though?


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## LonesomeKreature (Aug 5, 2009)

There are different types of confidence. I however am confident with photography. I've done projects for my college courses that involve me being completely nude in my photographs but if i'm not behind the camera, I lack the confidence. I guess I'm confident in art form not regular life form.


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## Tania (Aug 7, 2009)

Keb said:


> Been ruminating over the phrase "confident BBW" for a while, thanks to reading some other threads. That seems to be what all the FA's demand and desire. But I'm not sure even they fully know what they mean when they throw that phrase out. There are so many levels of confidence. Do they just mean someone who isn't flat out depressed about being fat all the time? Is it a code word for "Not On A Diet"? Code for "One of the Paysite Girls"?
> 
> I think of myself as a confident person most of the time. I'm willing to stand up for myself, others, and what I believe in when I think it's appropriate/necessary. I'm proud of what I've achieved, and set high goals for myself. I try to accept compliments and appreciate other people's good points as well.
> 
> ...



I'm going to rep this when the Gods of the Can allow.


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