# Do you really, from the bottom of your heart, love being a fat girl?



## Tau (Oct 30, 2009)

I've had a seriously difficult few weeks which is probably why I've freaked out so badly over an episode of Oprah. Star Jones, I think she's called, had gastric bypass and listening to her talking about how miserable she was as a fat girl, and how well she hid it, and just seeing how incredibly, terrifyingly different and _happy_ she is now...it just got me thinking really hard about how many fat women honestly, really love their fat bodies and wouldn't change them if they were given the opportunity. I've thought about it, thought about how I feel about my own fat body, and I know i wouldn't change my own. I'm not trying to be all smug and holier than thou by saying this, its been a difficult journey getting to this point. And I get that there are women who do not love their fat bodies, who are coming to grips with the hatred spewed at that them on the regular. But I cannot stand it when fat women in the spotlight claim to be completely in love with their curves and then do a complete turn around, loose a few hundred kilos and are suddenly gushing about how they've seen the light, how beautiful they are now, how amazing life is all of a sudden. Because every word they utter about how much they lied to themselves and others about loving their fat makes my lifestyle and the choices I have made look like cowardice, look like I've settled for a life and body I actually love thank you very much! I'm probably a shallow, studpid cow for getting angry but I am - I'm so, so angry. Somebody please give me some perspective and help me calm down, poke fun at me or something cos I just feel so hugely let down.


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## Tina (Oct 30, 2009)

Yes! And no.

I had a completely miserable childhood partly because of my fat (I won't go into other family dysfunction, which didn't help). I got a hard time from almost everyone around me, from family to many supposed friends, fellow church members, teachers, random kids and adults. Everywhere really. Didn't help that I grew up at a time when there weren't really plus-size clothes and that was because there really weren't a lot of plus-size _people_, either. So I stood out, and not in a good way. I really don't have many good memories from my childhood or teen years, and I disliked my body -- hated it, really -- until I decided to change the way I felt about my bod at 33 years of age.

Aside from that, the pain and mobility problems really suck the big watoosie. Those are the times that I dislike my body, when I have problems and pain walking and moving, and limitations on just how much of that I can do, and that it has affected my health (high blood pressure and VT, a heart condition, as well as insulin resistance). Traveling is horrible most of the time, frankly, and it is the one time I will look over at some very thin woman on an airplane seat, legs folded and knees up, reading a book, and feel envious. I would LOVE to have so much room on an airplane, where on my last trip a few weeks ago, part of the arm bruised and cut my hip and ripped a favorite dress. It's just a miserable experience that can take weeks to recover from, given the fibro and cf. It also negatively affects my husband, too, as he gets to push my ass around airport terminals on a wheelchair, occasionally at breakneck speeds. Did I mention I hate the way my size impacts my experiences traveling?

What I love about being fat is that I believe my size is part of my presence. Since I really came into my own about who I am and the shy girl grew into a woman who knows herself and who is unafraid to be who I am my fatness has become part of that. It's part of my identity and also is one of the things that makes me memorable (for better and for worse, but I focus on the better, and those who want to see my fat as a negative can suck wind).

Also, I love the way my body feels. I'm one of those fat people who likes to feel my own skin sometimes (though not really in public; that's a little weird...) and I'll warm my hands under my breasts or belly. Having naturally very soft, silky skin, and being fat (and the soft kind of fat, to boot) runs in the family, and I'm no exception. Some parts of my skin and body are so soft that, as a sensualist at heart, I can't help but feel myself absentmindedly, almost -- like on the underneath, tender parts of my arms, as one example. I know I sound weird in that way, and I don't do it obsessively or all the time, thank goodness.  Part and parcel of that is the way my husband revels in the feel of my body. It seems to send him into another realm and I really like that a lot.

So, good and bad, positives and negatives. I know I do need to lose weight for my health; I can feel it and sometimes my heart does weird and scary things. That's the worst. Honestly, if I could be really fat and not have it affect my health, mobility or pain levels and have a society that is really accommodating (like with the dreaded traveling situation), I would love it without reservation. But do I hate my fat body like Star Jones hated hers? Nope. I love my fat bod; it's just tempered by the difficulties.


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## KuroBara (Oct 30, 2009)

Tina said:


> Yes! And no.
> 
> I had a completely miserable childhood partly because of my fat (I won't go into other family dysfunction, which didn't help). I got a hard time from almost everyone around me, from family to many supposed friends, fellow church members, teachers, random kids and adults. Everywhere really. Didn't help that I grew up at a time when there weren't really plus-size clothes and that was because there really weren't a lot of plus-size _people_, either. So I stood out, and not in a good way. I really don't have many good memories from my childhood or teen years, and I disliked my body -- hated it, really -- until I decided to change the way I felt about my bod at 33 years of age.
> 
> ...


 
This, absolutely!! I really couldn't have said it better, from the childhood to touching my soft body parts. I love my arm flaps too, Tina. They are a bit embarassing in front of my studetns, if I'm pointing at somethig, but they are so soft, and slightly ticklish. I think I am cute, but not beautiful, but I don't know if I would be "beautiful" thin either. I have tried pretty much everything to lose weight, including WLS, and I'm still fat. I think someone is trying to tell me something. I would like to lose only enough weight to keep my co-morbidities under control, and that's it. I love my softness and thickness. I don't know if I would know how to be if I were thin.


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## Carrie (Oct 30, 2009)

Tina pretty much said it all for me. I love the feel of my soft body and skin. I love _owning_ my own beauty and standing apart from the crowd. I love the parts of my personality and character that have developed or been strengthened as a result of existing as a fat woman (inner strength, independence, etc.). I love looking in a full-length mirror and seeing miles of lovely curves. But yes, the physical limitations my fat put on me are sometimes a real drag. Some days are just quietly painful, when my knees hurt or my back aches, and some days I'm filled with frustration and resentment about the things I can no longer do, or can do but not without major preparation and consideration, like air travel, as Tina illustrated. 

Most days, though, I'm pretty content, and life in this fat body is good. So I totally get why you're angry at the weight loss celebrities, Tau. Why is it so hard to be happy in your new place without trashing where you _were_? I don't get it. It infuriates me, because I feel like every time they trash themselves pre-weight loss, they're helping to confirm people's suspicions that fat people are secretly miserable and all wish we were thin. *Not* the case at all.


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## olwen (Oct 30, 2009)

Since I've never been thin I don't know any other way. I've thought about what my body would be like at a size 6 or 8 and it just seems so utterly foreign to me that it is a bit difficult to comprehend. I like my body in that it belongs to me, it's mine and it's the only one I have, but I do have days where I hate the aches and pains I'm sure I wouldn't have if I were a size 8. I hate the discrimination and bullying treatment that fat people receive in the world at large and I always thought that it wasn't me who was the problem but the rest of society. They should be trying to accommodate me, not the other way around.

As for celebrities, what Star Jones does really isn't a reflection of you. Like most fat female celebrities after a while the pressure to fit in and toe the line becomes too much and they loose weight. They want to get parts and respect in hollywood and that's what they feel they need to do to get it. At the end of the day it's her body and she has to live in it. Being fat is just not easy and that is something I don't like. I wish it were.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Oct 30, 2009)

I don't enjoy being as big as I am at the moment, but I would be completely happy being around 250. That being said...being fat does not make me happy, rather I can be happy and fat at the same time. I've always been fat so I don't have anything to compare it to. If you don't know sadness can you truly be happy and vice versa.

So I guess my answer is no. I don't love it, but I don't hate it either...it just IS.


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## Jes (Oct 30, 2009)

I'd probably change, somewhat. And, I do believe I could, if I were willing to put in the time and energy, which I seem unwilling to do most of the time. I'd be really interested in knowing what I'd look and feel like much thinner, and then again in between the much thinner and the size I am now. It would be fascinating.

I'd still have my tiny baby hands, though.


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## Sugar (Oct 30, 2009)

I like the others feel that Tina really articulated how I feel about being fat. Just like all aspects of life there are things that are really awesome and things that really piss me off. 

I do think that there is a fair amount of women who are fat and hate their body and hide this fact. That shouldn't negate the fact that there is a growing group of women who are loving themselves and embracing their bodies, fat, thin, or otherwise. I really think that is the most any of us can hope for...self acceptance. 

And don't listen to Starr Jones...she's a bobble head doll that talks way too much for everyone's good.


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## Fascinita (Oct 30, 2009)

I might like to trade in my aches and pains--though those are 1/2 age and 1/2 heft, I think. They make it hard to exercise, which in turns makes it more difficult for my body to find a good balance.

But even if I could magically be thinner, I'm not sure I could maintain it. 

The reality is that I am the person I am and have the body I have because of the sum total of my life exactly as it's been lived. I'm sure there are people for whom being a certain size changes absolutely everything, but I frankly can't imagine how that would work in my life, given every single factor at work in it.

You can't separate the body from the person. I don't buy that Star Jones's life is all wonderful--maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but she certainly claimed to be happy before... do I believe her now? She's a TV star suffering from perfectionism and from the need to promote her career. Her life and her fickle whims have nothing to do with my life.

What I'd never want is to buy into the idea that I *have* to be a size or shape other than I am--whether fatter or thinner than I am.

I'm at peace with my size. I don't blame all of my problems on it. Realistically speaking, if I were thinner, I'd be a little better off in terms of pain- and health-management, though I may also be worse off on other counts. I manage my life as best as I can on a daily basis. I don't see a need to blame all my problems on size, though it's important to find a responsible balance and to not bury my head in the sand about the impact of my size on my life.

Note: I'll add that I think WLS might absolutely be a life-saver for some people whose health and lack of mobility make the effort of living truly a case of diminishing returns.


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## goofy girl (Oct 30, 2009)

no....................................................


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## Fascinita (Oct 30, 2009)

goofy girl said:


> no....................................................



lol I love this answer, goofy. 

Truth be told, after writing in my post above that I am "at peace with my size," I think that the more direct answer to this particular question might be "No, I don't love being a fat girl," like you.

What is there to love about it? Or to hate about it? BigBellySSBBW touched on this...

What is there to be at peace about? Do thin people get asked if they love being thin? Do tall people spend a lot of time coming to feel "at peace" with their tallness? 

Why are fat people always accosted with the necessity of having to consider or think about or "accept" their bodies? Why do we do this to ourselves?

Why can't we simply be, and enjoy being?


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## goofy girl (Oct 30, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> lol I love this answer, goofy.
> 
> Truth be told, after writing in my post above that I am "at peace with my size," I think that the more direct answer to this particular question might be "No, I don't love being a fat girl," like you.
> 
> ...



Exactly. It is what it is, and that's that. ya know? lol


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## kayrae (Oct 30, 2009)

No. But this is the body that I do have, so I accept it.


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## Carrie (Oct 30, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> lol I love this answer, goofy.
> 
> Truth be told, after writing in my post above that I am "at peace with my size," I think that the more direct answer to this particular question might be "No, I don't love being a fat girl," like you.
> 
> ...


I think the difference is that thinness and tallness, generally speaking (and not referring to extreme tallness or thinness), don't affect a person's life in the way being significantly fat can. I mean, like it or not, it touches most aspects of my life in one way or another, and maybe that's a difference between fat and supersized? I don't know. But whether anyone has ever _asked_ me if I've made peace with my body or not is irrelevant, it's absolutely something I've had to do.


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## Tina (Oct 30, 2009)

I have to agree with Carrie, Lizzy. It's all a matter of opinion and perspective of course, but the way I see it...


Fascinita said:


> What is there to love about it? Or to hate about it? BigBellySSBBW touched on this...
> 
> What is there to be at peace about? Do thin people get asked if they love being thin? Do tall people spend a lot of time coming to feel "at peace" with their tallness?


Fact is, average people don't *need* to think about or come to terms with issues based upon their looks because they are the norm. What's to think about? As fat people, generally disdained by society and presumed not to be sexually desirable and deserving of praise, respect, or even of the title "human being," at some point just for our own survival and peace of mind we might decide to toss away those societal notions of who we are _supposed_ to be and decide who we actually _are_. Some fat people didn't have a painful past, though I think there are very few who didn't pay for their size in some way. And some also have always known who they were and felt positive about how they looked at whatever size. That was not my experience, and so therefore I decided to replace the shit messages and warped mirror I received from the external world with different messages that came from within, from me, and from perspectives I chose to receive.


> Why are fat people always accosted with the necessity of having to consider or think about or "accept" their bodies? Why do we do this to ourselves?
> 
> Why can't we simply be, and enjoy being?


Sounds like you and I have had vastly different experiences. If you never really and truly suffered from the world for being fat than bless you. I truly am glad, Lizzy. You don't deserve it. Frankly, none of us do.

In my own life, I've never felt "accosted with the necessity of having to consider or think about or "accept" their [my] bodies [body]. It wasn't unpleasant to see myself in a better, more positive light; it was a relief. It was more that those who took issue with my body and how much space I took up made me feel accosted just simply for being.

If, in my life, growing up as a child, teen and young adult, I could have just simply 'been' and simply "enjoyed being," then things might be different. But when simply being includes walking down the street, enjoying the sun, feeling just like anyone else -- just being -- and then one is accosted by hollered epithets and disdainful laughter, it brings one back to reality: "oh yeah, I forgot, I'm a freak." I clearly remember feeling just that way, thinking just that to myself, when just that scenario happened.

If fat would have always been acceptable -- the norm, while I was growing up, there'd be nothing to think about. Though I still believe I'd love my softness, and so would Eric.


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## littlefairywren (Oct 30, 2009)

I don't love it from the bottom of my heart. But, I have grown to love it...at least somewhat. I also like the way my skin feels and how soft I am to touch. Sometimes I feel quite lucsious, if that makes any sense.

But every now and then, when I see a program where someone has "seen the light" about their weight I do wonder. Does not last long though


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## Tania (Oct 30, 2009)

I like most of my body most of the time. I want to get rid of the deflated skinflaps and the midriff blob, however. Then I'd be really, really happy with it. 

That said, I wouldn't mind being smaller.


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## StarWitness (Oct 30, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> Why are fat people always accosted with the necessity of having to consider or think about or "accept" their bodies? Why do we do this to ourselves?





Tina said:


> Fact is, average people don't *need* to think about or come to terms with issues based upon their looks because they are the norm. What's to think about?



I disagree. While people who aren't fat certainly don't receive the same kind of flak, that doesn't mean that they don't find flaws in their bodies. It may not be as explicit as accepting one's size, but we have to accept our height, our build, our hair, skin color, noses, eyes, physical ability... and hell, even if someone happened to be her own physical ideal, she would still have to accept her body for only having a shelf life of 80 years or so. I will concede that accepting one's fatness is different, because of all the judgments about character that our society equates with size, but everyone has to accept their own body's limits. Everyone.



Fascinita said:


> Why can't we simply be, and enjoy being?



That's what I'm working towards, personally. I don't think I can honestly say that I love being a fat girl from the bottom of my heart-- sorry Tau-- but I've made positive strides towards accepting my physical self as I am, in the present. I'm shedding the notion that I need to apologize for being who I am.

I feel the need to preface this by saying that I'm privileged in terms of health and mobility, but... to be honest, the things that I like least about being fat ultimately boil down to other people (e.g. limited clothing options; being judged negatively based on size). In a vacuum, though? It's not a bad deal.


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## Tina (Oct 31, 2009)

> Tina said:
> 
> 
> > Fact is, average people don't *need* to think about or come to terms with issues based upon their looks because they are the norm. What's to think about?
> ...


My point wasn't that people with average, thin bodies don't have problems or even something like body dysmorphia; they very well can. I also didn't address the "tall" issue, because girls who are tall quite often do not dig it and guys who are 'too' tall often have their own issues. In fact, anyone who is different in some way gets teased for it as a child at the least, but I wasn't talking about that, either (though, frankly, if someone is of average size, height and looks, they're going to have the easiest time of all, _overall_, based upon looks. This doesn't address whatever dysfunction the family may be caught up in so that an average-looking child is picked on by family for some imaginary flaw (that happens too often, too, and I don't get it). Perhaps I shouldn't have worded it as I did, but without meaning to be dismissive to others I was really just addressing fat women specifically, as that is the discussion, and overall we tend to get a whole lot of flak for the fat on our bodies.


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## Tau (Oct 31, 2009)

Tina said:


> I have to agree with Carrie, Lizzy. It's all a matter of opinion and perspective of course, but the way I see it...
> 
> Fact is, average people don't *need* to think about or come to terms with issues based upon their looks because they are the norm. What's to think about? As fat people, generally disdained by society and presumed not to be sexually desirable and deserving of praise, respect, or even of the title "human being," at some point just for our own survival and peace of mind we might decide to toss away those societal notions of who we are _supposed_ to be and decide who we actually _are_. ...I decided to replace the shit messages and warped mirror I received from the external world with different messages that came from within, from me, and from perspectives I chose to receive...In my own life, I've never felt "accosted with the necessity of having to consider or think about or "accept" their [my] bodies [body]. It wasn't unpleasant to see myself in a better, more positive light; it was a relief. It was more that those who took issue with my body and how much space I took up made me feel accosted just simply for being.
> 
> ...



I heart this post so hard. It echoes almost exactly my own experiences, the hurtful - oh, remember you're a freak! ones - and the immense relief that came from finally giving myself permission to find myself beautiful despite what the rest of the world had to say on the matter. 

I want to say a big thank you to all of you for your posts here, for sharing your stories with me. I confess last night, after posting this, I went out dressed in a deliberatly provocotive way and then got into a fight with a group of girls in the club who heckled me about it. I'm not proud that I went out looking for a fight, but it also made me angry that I knew those comments were coming and, sure as daylight, they came. Its made me question my own sense of peace and fulfilment, the maturity of my own journey, and your responses, all of them, have given me a great deal to think about. 
'


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## Inhibited (Oct 31, 2009)

Can't say that i <3 it from the bottom of my heart, if i could change i would get rid of my back fat and flabby arms, but in saying that i accept me and those parts don't stop me from living or wearing items of clothing, though i must admit i would never wear a singlet top in public with something not covering my upper arms. If i could get rid of flabby arms and back fat than i think i would <3 my body from the bottom of my heart.

I must admit I'm a little scared of losing weight and being thinner, 
the only way i would know how to maintain it would be the wrong way, i won't get into it but it is something that I don't want to revert back to. I dunno maybe this belongs on a different thread, but i would like to be thinner just for one day so i could go sky diving and bungee jumping etc.

I would like to add that on the rare occasion, once a year or so i will feel fat, i'm not consciously aware that i'm fat day in and day out, i hope that makes sense.


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## littlefairywren (Oct 31, 2009)

Inhibited said:


> Can't say that i <3 it from the bottom of my heart, if i could change i would get rid of my back fat and flabby arms, but in saying that i accept me and those parts don't stop me from living or wearing items of clothing, though i must admit i would never wear a singlet top in public with something not covering my upper arms. If i could get rid of flabby arms and back fat than i think i would <3 my body from the bottom of my heart.
> 
> I must admit I'm a little scared of losing weight and being thinner,
> the only way i would know how to maintain it would be the wrong way, i won't get into it but it is something that I don't want to revert back to. I dunno maybe this belongs on a different thread, but i would like to be thinner just for one day so i could go sky diving and bungee jumping etc.
> ...



I so totally get that! And yes, I would like to be thin for just one day, so I could run without getting hit in the face with my chest


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## Fascinita (Oct 31, 2009)

Carrie said:


> I think the difference is that thinness and tallness, generally speaking (and not referring to extreme tallness or thinness), don't affect a person's life in the way being significantly fat can. I mean, like it or not, it touches most aspects of my life in one way or another, and maybe that's a difference between fat and supersized? I don't know. But whether anyone has ever _asked_ me if I've made peace with my body or not is irrelevant, it's absolutely something I've had to do.



Carrie, I appreciate your pointing this out. 

I guess I would say, in response, that I feel we all have to make peace with our bodies, whether fat or thin. Being fat, whether a little or a whole lot, is a human condition.

I can imagine states of thinness or tallness that might also be something to make peace with, whether because of physical or psychological impact. Personal physical and psychological challenges come in as many flavors as there are people. That is simply the human condition.

So what I wanted to suggest by asking why fat is exceptionalized in ways that thinness and tallness, just for example, are not, is that we have to be careful, I think, not to remove fat from the sphere of normal, natural human conditions. 

Sometimes I feel like, in the rush to get everyone onboard with "accepting" their fat, something is getting lost: the fact that fat is not a category that makes fat people exceptional or apart from others, and the fact that not everyone who is fat will have the same experiences or the same "need" to "accept" anything. 

As your personal testimony suggests, being fat is expressed individually in every person. My post was intended as a critique of the idea that a fat person must accept and love herself and that self-love and confidence magically make her a more enlightened version of what she was before. And yet everyone is different. What lets one person feel at peace with herself varies wildly from what works for her cousin Marie, you know? So the idea that "self-love" and "confidence" in a fat person proves anything, and that it's a good antidote to self-hate, is a dangerous one, I think.

Does any of that make sense?


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## olwen (Oct 31, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> Carrie, I appreciate your pointing this out.
> 
> I guess I would say, in response, that I feel we all have to make peace with our bodies, whether fat or thin. Being fat, whether a little or a whole lot, is a human condition.
> 
> ...



I'm not sure I'm following you. Could be cause I have a cold right now and my head is a bit foggy, but how does fat not separate fat people from thin people in some way? Even if you do everything you can to fit in you are still going to be different because the people around you won't ever let you forget that. The fact that you can't fit into things is a constant reminder of how different you are. Are you suggesting that all of this is irrelevant? I understand wishing that these things didn't matter but they do and we have to deal with it on a daily basis.

As for the second point, some of the women here have expressed this idea before but I confess I've never been able to quite wrap my brain around the idea of self-love as a goal being a dangerous thing. In and of itself it seems like a perfectly acceptable idea of self. It seems dangerous to me to say that self-love shouldn't be an acceptable goal in the way of personhood. To say that we cannot ever be fully formed people without self love is one thing, but to say it is a dangerous idea doesn't seem right to me either. 

I do think I get what you are trying to say in essence: that fat people (all people really) should be free to form their own ideas of personhood (the way thin people do), and any attempts to force some kind of code on people is very close to taking away a person's free will, which is a bad thing. No?


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## bigjayne66 (Oct 31, 2009)

I want to love my body,but how can I when most of my town seems to treat me like a freak out of a sideshow,I have encountered a lot of SSBBWs bigger than me,but seems theres only one my size in my town,so I look out of place.


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## Tina (Oct 31, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> So what I wanted to suggest by asking why fat is exceptionalized in ways that thinness and tallness, just for example, are not, is that we have to be careful, I think, not to remove fat from the sphere of normal, natural human conditions.


From my POV, though, it is not us who removes fat from the sphere of normalcy, it is the reactions and behavior of those around us who do so in our formulative years that informs, often, how we feel and think of ourselves and our place in the world. Until we get that bigoted feedback, we often DO feel normal. Very much of what I am personally discussing is the result of a childhood spent as a fat person in a fat-hating environment. I'm not at all trying to speak to the experience of a person who is 'average' size until adulthood and then who becomes fat and experiences these judgments and indictments as an adult who already has a more cemented and healthy sense of self.


> As your personal testimony suggests, being fat is expressed individually in every person. My post was intended as a critique of the idea that a fat person must accept and love herself and that self-love and confidence magically make her a more enlightened version of what she was before. And yet everyone is different. What lets one person feel at peace with herself varies wildly from what works for her cousin Marie, you know? So the idea that "self-love" and "confidence" in a fat person proves anything, and that it's a good antidote to self-hate, is a dangerous one, I think.


I know you're talking to Carrie, really, not me, but I have a perspective on this, too (go figure ).

Personally, I believe that self-love and confidence in a fat person is really removed from the norm, and rather than seeing it as being dangerous, I see it as being a step towards feeling normal, or at least feeling worthy of breathing air. I get the feeling from reading this that the perspective from which you write is one of not being very fat as a child, or that if you were you weren't all that stigmatized for it. I don't want to jump to conclusions here, or put words in your mouth, because I don't know what your situation was, but only know my own and some perspectives from others who grew up as I did, feeling in many ways the same, and how much of a relief it can be, and how important it is, to replace those fat-hating internal tapes with messages of self-love and confidence. It can feel like a form of enlightenment -- and transformation.

So self-love and confidence are not magical; they are often hard-won and consciously formed after living a life without it, but they very much do have the power to transform, even if said feelings are just an improvement and not examples of perfection in self-perception. It should be said that often confidence is not perfect or total, or completely consistent. I believe we all have our moments of self-doubt feelings of inferiority or like we're less-than from time to time. But that is just my O and not claiming it's anyone else's.


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## Tooz (Oct 31, 2009)

You know, I feel like those weight loss-loving-gushing women are elated (for the most part) to finally fit into a societal norm. I do think some women have valid complaints, as it is always difficult when something hinders your mobility, but I don't know. I know I don't feel like they do-- the self hate, the avoidance of mirrors, food issues, etc.

Do I love being a fat girl? That's a complex question. 

I wouldn't say I love it. I would say I have learned to do well within its context. I have learned to work with what clothing is made available to me, and health is something I work to maintain. I guess I, on some level, always felt that the problem did not lie with me. I never really had qualms about going out to eat, eating it all and ordering dessert, I never (past the awkward teen years) felt that I couldn't look in the mirror. I feel like the sobbing woman talking about how hard it is to be fat is so TIRED. Like, seriously, I feel like there are sheep and there are those who are ok standing alone or in a minority. I know that being fat on some level makes me stand out, and I am ok with that. I feel that on some level these women who sob about their size are not ok standing on their own.

Basically, I feel like, sometimes, they're just sad they aren't the paradigm of "standard attractiveness."

Dag, that sounded cold. Hope it all at least made sense, heh.


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## olwen (Oct 31, 2009)

Tooz said:


> You know, I feel like those weight loss-loving-gushing women are elated (for the most part) to finally fit into a societal norm. I do think some women have valid complaints, as it is always difficult when something hinders your mobility, but I don't know. I know I don't feel like they do-- the self hate, the avoidance of mirrors, food issues, etc.
> 
> Do I love being a fat girl? That's a complex question.
> 
> ...



Tooz, this makes total sense. I just want to point out that when I say being fat is hard, it is not so much about standing out or being different as it is the treatment one gets from others. I realize not every fat person suffers discrimination based on their size, but I have and that part is not fun at all. Then there are just physical things that can be trying. The older I get the more I feel this stuff too. Granted part of that is just the normal aging process, but the other part that is the result of being fat isn't always easy to deal with either. So again, for me it has less to do with standing out than it does to do with physical aches and pains, and discrimination.


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## Tooz (Oct 31, 2009)

olwen said:


> Tooz, this makes total sense. I just want to point out that when I say being fat is hard, it is not so much about standing out or being different as it is the treatment one gets from others. I realize not every fat person suffers discrimination based on their size, but I have and that part is not fun at all. Then there are just physical things that can be trying. The older I get the more I feel this stuff too. Granted part of that is just the normal aging process, but the other part that is the result of being fat isn't always easy to deal with either. So again, for me it has less to do with standing out than it does to do with physical aches and pains, and discrimination.



Yeah, I definitely agree that being fat is a hard thing on many levels. I have definitely experienced at least the social side of it several times in my life, but I still am driven mad by sobbing women on tv, hah.

The one thing I don't like about being fat-- and this is more because society does this to me-- every time I have an injury or sickness or whatever, I wonder if it is somehow because I am fat. Logically, I know that's crap, but emotionally, I wonder sometimes.


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## olwen (Oct 31, 2009)

Tooz said:


> Yeah, I definitely agree that being fat is a hard thing on many levels. I have definitely experienced at least the social side of it several times in my life, but I still am driven mad by sobbing women on tv, hah.
> 
> The one thing I don't like about being fat-- and this is more because society does this to me-- every time I have an injury or sickness or whatever, I wonder if it is somehow because I am fat. Logically, I know that's crap, but emotionally, I wonder sometimes.



Ah, I feel you now. I know exactly what you mean on both counts. I used to wonder that too when sick or injured, less when sick but more when injured. Thing is tho sometimes it's true. Like with my arthritis, I know it's because of my size. That and weight lifting....what I wonder is quite the opposite actually. I wonder if I'd have gotten such severe arthritis if I were thin when I had done the weight lifting. If I were thin would I have had to stop? It was the first time I had experienced an activity I actually loved and having to give it up (doctor's orders) was truly devastating. Tho I also wonder if I were thin would the two doctors I saw about my knees would have recommended a less vigerous regimine rather than suggesting I stop altogether. I'll never know.


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## Fascinita (Oct 31, 2009)

Tina said:


> From my POV, though, it is not us who removes fat from the sphere of normalcy, it is the reactions and behavior of those around us who do so in our formulative years that informs, often, how we feel and think of ourselves and our place in the world.



Tina, I hear what you're saying. While I was not really fat until I hit puberty, when the fat hate eventually started to rain on me, it poured. It was devastating. I have horror stories.

The thing of it is, for me, whatever the antidote is to the messages that were internalized has to be something found by the individual. That's why I'm not comfortable with the idea of "codifying" fat self-acceptance, or with suggesting that "self-love" really is going to get 'er done. At some point, then, what appears to be on the surface a good idea offered in the name of support becomes a mantra that is just one more burden the fat person has to bear.

I think we do sometimes remove ourselves from the sphere of normalcy, as when we focus exclusively on what sets us apart from the rest of humanity. I understand the need to form groups that offer opportunities for mutual support, but I'm wary of any idea that seems to prescribe any particular "medicine" that guarantees healing.

Where I'm coming from, ultimately:

Color me anti-authoritarian. I resist authority over my understanding of my body, from either direction. And I resist that not only on behalf of fat people, as I see how thinner people suffer, too. Anyone who is thin but who lives in terror of gaining two pounds is not wallowing in privilege. Fat-phobia is essentially a means to controlling bodies--those of the thin AND of the fat. 

When we're terrorized for "being fat," I think we deserve support and the right to speak back to the hate. Speaking back to hate is our political civil right. But none of this _actually_ puts fat in a category of sub- or super-human or extra-human. I know that some of us internalize these messages, and that it's important to support and empower one another. But I think that when we turn ideologue in support environments, when we start identifying fat as a monolithic category that exists as something "wronged" and "outside the norm," something that has to be rescued and restored, we run the risk of understating the perfect humanity of fat people. Fact is, outside of individual _embodied experiences_ of it, "Fat" doesn't exist. And ideas about fat have equal potential to be beneficial or harmful. Better, IMO, to talk to and about individual people as such. 

And if we divide ourselves into categories at all, let it be between those who are for letting people be as they are, and those that would control people--anyone--by applying manipulation through ideas.

I don't think that what divides us, you and I, is such a huge gap in experiences. Fat suffering is human suffering. I'm not interested in comparing suffering in the context of this thread, so I'm not going into my horror stories for the moment. If there is a component of your experience that I haven't participated in, of course it means I can't know what that was like for you. But neither, then, can anyone say that what's helpful for one is going to necessarily help another. The best we can do is to offer real support to one another, as human beings who all know suffering and who share individual knowledge of some set of experiences. We can learn from our experiences of existing in groups of mutual support, too, and use what we learn to offer better support to newcomers. But that support always has to be tailored to the individual. And while I imagine that replacing those negative tapes is helpful in many situations, we can't take a position that this is absolutely true in every case. Then it becomes ideology, and ideology has the effect of crushing individuals beneath it. 

So that's what I was getting at. I hope that clarifies what I meant.


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## Tania (Oct 31, 2009)

Tooz said:


> I feel like the sobbing woman talking about how hard it is to be fat is so TIRED. Like, seriously, I feel like there are sheep and there are those who are ok standing alone or in a minority. I know that being fat on some level makes me stand out, and I am ok with that. I feel that on some level these women who sob about their size are not ok standing on their own.



Perhaps sometimes, but not all the time. I have frequently sobbed about my fatness, but not because I hate standing out or even because I always wanted to be conventionally attractive - I've NEVER been or looked like everyone else, thin or fat. I will always be the strange girl and I'm at peace with that, generally speaking. That said, I *do* have a fairly set comfort zone when it comes to my size and shape. Outside of that zone, I don't look or feel like myself anymore. I look hideous TO MYSELF, and it really doesn't matter if 99 out of 100 My Moms or Hot Boys try to convince me otherwise. 

As you say, "liking your fatness" and even "liking yourself" is a lot more complex than yes/no/forever. BDD and other, non-size-related self-loathing issues were always in my mix and contributed to differing extents during each stage of my life. I'm pretty sure it's some degree of same for most others.


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## olwen (Oct 31, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> Tina, I hear what you're saying. While I was not really fat until I hit puberty, when the fat hate eventually started to rain on me, it poured. It was devastating. I have horror stories.
> 
> The thing of it is, for me, whatever the antidote is to the messages that were internalized has to be something found by the individual. That's why I'm not comfortable with the idea of "codifying" fat self-acceptance, or with suggesting that "self-love" really is going to get 'er done. At some point, then, what appears to be on the surface a good idea offered in the name of support becomes a mantra that is just one more burden the fat person has to bear.
> 
> ...



You realize of course that what you are saying here is a type of ideology....I know you are addressing this to Tina, but the way I interpret this is that well then there is no point to sharing experiences or forming groups because of the tendency to form a herd mentality or because of the possibility of an authoritarian figure popping up to impose rules. If that is what you are saying then I have to disagree...makes me think of solitary confinement. People go crazy if left alone for too long. Some rules are necessary to prevent chaos. There has to be some balance between the two. A way to coexist without resorting to extremes in either direction.


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## Lovelyone (Oct 31, 2009)

First, I would like to say that I am not surprised that so many people identified with what Tina has said. This community is a place where most people have had to deal with the pressures of dealing with labels, being "different" and trying to fit into a mold that didn't fit us (both figuratively and literally).
Growing up as a fat kid, I was MISERABLE. I just wanted to have friends, be happy, and have people love me for me. That's not how things work. As young as 8 or 9 I found myself feeling the need to prove myself, desiring affection, and always feeling like I was standing on the outside looking in at a life that was wonderful--but wasn't mine.
My self-esteem--what little I had of it--was waning, and as my teenage years bounded forward I withdrew into myself and became an awfully shy young girl who walked with her books in front of her and avoided looking at anyone for fear they would unleash a verbal assault on me for no more than glancing around. It was very hard for me to make friends...as when I was a child, no one wanted that fat kid to be in their group. I didn't learn much about socialization except that the fat kids get left out simply because they are fat. That left me with distrust, anger and bitterness about always being the stand out. and believe me, for a shy girl..being the stand out was not a good thing. I found that if I made fun myself before they did...it was easier to assimilate and be accepted, so I joked about being fat, called myself names, and allowed people to think it was okay to belittle me...all for the sake of being part of the in-crowd. All-the-while I felt this incredible pain inside from every cutting word. I felt guilty cos of the jokes and because I let people talk to me in a demeaning way, but at that time I felt it was the only way that they would accept me. 
It took me YEARS to see that I had become the problem by allowing and participating in such behavior. Even now I sometimes crack a joke about being the big girl in a little world. I've learned in recent years that people are going to be who they are. They are either fat bigots, or they aren't. I prefer to have people in my life who arent. (sadly I have run into people who claim NOT to be..but really are and just wont admit it because they dont want to be thought of in a negative light). 
Over the years I have learned that I can be me..a beautiful,engaging,entertaining, intellectual,funny, kind,thoughful, sweet person...without having to explain that fat is not part of the definition of WHO I am. Fat is just a descriptor...its not a definition. 
I don't love being as big as I am. I have aches and pains from carrying around so much weight. I suffer leg edema, arthritis, and hip bursitis. I'd LOVE to be able to just walk into a store in the mall and buy the latest fashion, or be able to go to a restaurant without having to ask about seating accomodations. I'd love to travel and not have ot pay for a second seat. I'd love to be able to ride rides at an amusement park, or go on a date that involved tons of walking without tiring out. I'd love to be able to eat all I want and not gain a single pound. This is just not going to happen. As an adult, I don't feel the need to conform who I am to fit into what society thinks is "normal". I think I am normal. God isn't unhappy with me..so why should I be? I have a good friend who tells me all the time that, "God don't make junk"...I tend to agree with her. I think that people's bodies are masterpieces..and we chose our own ways to paint our own canvases. Some like tattoos and peircings,some dye their hair, some bodybuild, some (like me) enjoy food.


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## katherine22 (Oct 31, 2009)

I love my size and hate my age. I used to hate my size. Since when did Oprah Winfrey say anything real in 10 years of television. Excuse me, Oprah is a slave to her sponsors and her sponsors want women to feel bad about themselves so that they will go shopping for retail therapy. Female self-hatred makes the capitalistic world go round.


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## Fascinita (Nov 1, 2009)

olwen said:


> You realize of course that what you are saying here is a type of ideology....



It's an ideology of removing all ideologies of control. It's one of resisting, rather than imposing. The critique that an ideology that calls for annulling ideologies that try to impose controls on people is not a valid one doesn't hold here. You may as well say that one isn't allowed to resist anything.



> I know you are addressing this to Tina, but the way I interpret this is that well then there is no point to sharing experiences or forming groups because of the tendency to form a herd mentality or because of the possibility of an authoritarian figure popping up to impose rules.



Not at all, olwen. I'm not sure you've read my post entirely. This isn't at all what I was saying.



> Some rules are necessary to prevent chaos. There has to be some balance between the two. A way to coexist without resorting to extremes in either direction.



I don't think we're really talking in the same rhetorical categories. I'm talking about how people relate to themselves and to one another as people, advocating individual considerations in every case. You seem to be addressing ways to govern groups. I think we're speaking at cross purposes. Authority is perfectly appropriate in some situations, and perfectly inappropriate in others.


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## Tina (Nov 1, 2009)

Tooz said:


> Yeah, I definitely agree that being fat is a hard thing on many levels. I have definitely experienced at least the social side of it several times in my life, but I still am driven mad by sobbing women on tv, hah.


I don't care for it, either, because it's so planned and there is such an agenda to it. It pisses me off when fat people are portrayed as pitiful. 

My perspective was and is informed by my experiences and my childhood and growing up years, in which there was a lot of verbal, physical and emotional abuse and negation. I was a victim then, but I certainly am not now, so yeah, that pisses me off, too. There's so much more to me than my fat, and more to me than my past, too. I don't talk about it here for several reasons, but one of those reasons is that I don't want to focus on it. It's part of who I am but not even close to being all of who I am. I personally think that the producers, hosts and whomever cherry pick their guests and not only those fat people who hate their fat, but maybe who also grew up with abuse, and likely really took out the meat tenderizer on them before the show to soften them up and bring them closer to their emotions just for ratings' sake, which, to me, makes those assholes in charge of the show scum.


Fascinita said:


> The thing of it is, for me, whatever the antidote is to the messages that were internalized has to be something found by the individual. That's why I'm not comfortable with the idea of "codifying" fat self-acceptance, or with suggesting that "self-love" really is going to get 'er done. At some point, then, what appears to be on the surface a good idea offered in the name of support becomes a mantra that is just one more burden the fat person has to bear.


I believe it can be found by the individual, but I also think that people can help each other. I'm also not sure there is any one antidote, or an complete, perfect antidote to the likely lifelong effects of abusive childhoods. One can feel one has moved beyond it -- and maybe most often they have -- but it's also not uncommon to have those bad days when it all comes back and it just is what it is until one feels better. Parts of our foundation never goes away, but I do believe that we can re-build as we choose, and that it takes more than self-love and building some confidence in a person who has been traumatized by their growing up years, but that those factors can be important in the re-building. IMO, it's a combination of abuse and focus on a child's fat that does the most damage. I think that it's hard enough when the outside world is hard on a child for their size, or whatever their 'difference' is, but when it becomes a negative family focus, too, and the child has no safe place, that makes it a lot worse. Because of that, I do believe that building a positive self-perception is a big help in the person re-evaluating who they really are as an adult. One would hope it would come sooner, but it doesn't always. It didn't for me. Groups can be helpful with that; they can also be harmful. Any babe in the woods is open to possible predators who are only interested in their own agendas, whether the person is in a SA atmosphere or in any other kind of group. 


> I think we do sometimes remove ourselves from the sphere of normalcy, as when we focus exclusively on what sets us apart from the rest of humanity. I understand the need to form groups that offer opportunities for mutual support, but I'm wary of any idea that seems to prescribe any particular "medicine" that guarantees healing.


First off, what is normal and just how healthy is it actually? "Normalcy" within society would like to pathologize fatness, and often do. Any extreme one way or the other is dysfunction and balance is generally found at or near the middle, IMO. I think that certainly it's not healthy to close oneself off and _only_ mingle with people who are like oneself, whether it's fat people or _any_ other group. It can really skew one's perception of the world and we cannot cocoon ourselves in cotton batting in order to protect ourselves from the world anyway. But if you're saying that diet plans and the 'health and beauty corporations are whacked for trying to sell us a bill of goods guaranteeing us some sort of illusion of "healing" that is really just an effort to pad their pockets and give fat people some illusion of the ability to 'heal' us of fatness and social stigma, I agree. Otherwise I'm not sure what you're meaning, because I'm not sure I see anyone here who isn't in favor of fat people casting off the mantle that those who would profit in any way, shape or form by us forming a line outside of Jenny Craig like cattle would wrap us in, instead of focusing on seeing ourselves more accurately and honestly, faults and all, rather than hate the way we look enough to want to empty our pockets, or souls, so that greedy bastards and manipulative people can make money or further themselves in any way. Total run-on sentence, but it's late and I'm tired. Hope it's at least somewhat clear. 

I don't really think our takes on this are at odds, but I'm not sure I totally understand what you're saying when you talk about authoritarianism. Who is it that is being authoritarian about how a person sees and feels about themselves, Lizzy?


> Fat-phobia is essentially a means to controlling bodies--those of the thin AND of the fat.


Agreed, wholeheartedly.


> When we're terrorized for "being fat," I think we deserve support and the right to speak back to the hate. Speaking back to hate is our political civil right. But none of this _actually_ puts fat in a category of sub- or super-human or extra-human. I know that some of us internalize these messages, and that it's important to support and empower one another. But I think that when we turn ideologue in support environments, when we start identifying fat as a monolithic category that exists as something "wronged" and "outside the norm," something that has to be rescued and restored, we run the risk of understating the perfect humanity of fat people. Fact is, outside of individual _embodied experiences_ of it, "Fat" doesn't exist. And ideas about fat have equal potential to be beneficial or harmful. Better, IMO, to talk to and about individual people as such.
> 
> And if we divide ourselves into categories at all, let it be between those who are for letting people be as they are, and those that would control people--anyone--by applying manipulation through ideas.


I think I'm not getting this as it applies to this space or those of us participating in this thread. Are you saying it does, or are you talking about something in general 'out there'? I admit I'm confused and would like to understand.


> I don't think that what divides us, you and I, is such a huge gap in experiences. Fat suffering is human suffering. I'm not interested in comparing suffering in the context of this thread, so I'm not going into my horror stories for the moment. If there is a component of your experience that I haven't participated in, of course it means I can't know what that was like for you. But neither, then, can anyone say that what's helpful for one is going to necessarily help another. The best we can do is to offer real support to one another, as human beings who all know suffering and who share individual knowledge of some set of experiences. We can learn from our experiences of existing in groups of mutual support, too, and use what we learn to offer better support to newcomers. But that support always has to be tailored to the individual. And while I imagine that replacing those negative tapes is helpful in many situations, we can't take a position that this is absolutely true in every case. Then it becomes ideology, and ideology has the effect of crushing individuals beneath it.
> 
> So that's what I was getting at. I hope that clarifies what I meant.


I'm not really sure it does. I hope I'm not coming off as someone who has a cure-all or who knows it all, or who is trying to tell anyone what to do or how to live their lives. I'm just talking about my own experience and giving my opinion based upon it. Beyond that, it's up to others which path they take to whatever destination they want to reach. Again, I'm feeling confused about just what you're getting at, though, Lizzy.


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## Fascinita (Nov 1, 2009)

Tina said:


> Again, I'm feeling confused about just what you're getting at, though, Lizzy.



lol Tina, I was testifying. Stating my beliefs about what it means to be a fat person in the world, in the context of "self-acceptance" presented in this thread. 

You responded to my post, and I replied to that. I'm sorry it isn't more clear, what I mean. I've tried to use my best skillset of rhetorical and theoretical training in expressing myself and, if that falls short, I'm not sure I can do better for the time being. Maybe we'll have better luck another time. 

Thanks for your thoughts!


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## Tau (Nov 1, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> Carrie, I appreciate your pointing this out.
> 
> I guess I would say, in response, that I feel we all have to make peace with our bodies, whether fat or thin. Being fat, whether a little or a whole lot, is a human condition.
> 
> ...



I confess I also don't quite follow. I thought self love and self acceptance is what all people were striving for, and that attaining that contenment and peace within yourself is one of the main things that the size acceptance movement is about? And what is self love and confidence meant to be a proof of? I always figured just having them, attaining that joy in yourself, was a testament to a life really well lived.

'the fact that fat is not a category that makes fat people exceptional or apart from others, and the fact that not everyone who is fat will have the same experiences or the same "need" to "accept" anything.' I totally get what you're saying about fat people not having the same experiences. What i don't agree with though is the statement that fat does not make fat people separate from others. It does. the stories I've read on this board, the experiences shared by people here and on other forums, the fact that forums like this exist at all, bears testament to the fact that fat has made many, many people separate, apart or exceptional from others. I'm not trying to claim a better quality of joy/suffering or anything, not trying to say being fat is way better/harder than being gay or being handicapped, _but it does make us different_. It does mean that there are experiences shared that are seen and repeated time and time again no matter what part of the world you are in, it does mean that our fatness often sets us apart. For me saying that fat isn't a category that has made difference in our lives and so caused us to be apart in some way, different in some way, with valuable experiences that must be shared and discussed and just felt, is as dangerous as people who claim to be colour blind and that every racial woe would be solved if we all just pretended that race doesn't make us different.


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## Fascinita (Nov 1, 2009)

Tau said:


> I confess I also don't quite follow. I thought self love and self acceptance is what all people were striving for, and that attaining that contenment and peace within yourself is one of the main things that the size acceptance movement is about? And what is self love and confidence meant to be a proof of? I always figured just having them, attaining that joy in yourself, was a testament to a life really well lived.



Tau, you know those times when you feel rushed to be something that someone thinks you should be, because they think it's good for you? Have you ever felt frustrated by anything like that? Like someone saying you should get over the death of a loved one already, because they can see that you've been depressed for "too long." They mean well, but really, they _may_ be putting on inappropriate pressure. Who's--other than a qualified professional, of course--to say how long it should take anyone to mourn?

Similarly, who's to say that "self-love" and "self-acceptance" are what any single fat person needs to "fix" everything that's wrong.

Of course we all need a basic level of self-acceptance. But I'm advocating letting people decide for themselves how and when they get there, especially given the informal nature of any support we are able to offer one another online. And I'm advocating not adding to people's burden and isolation by setting up some new hurdle that they must clear in order to arrive at some mythical state of wellbeing. 

In terms of the world of fat acceptance, these pressures can take the form of requiring people to feel "confident" in themselves, to show themselves off with confidence and to "dress" with confidence (and other kinds of directives). I'm afraid these are not appropriate for every fat person. What's worse, they may sometimes be really about controlling fat people's behavior and steering them in directions that are more comfortable for the people doing the steering than for the fat people themselves.

So, in essence, I'm saying the fat person deserves all the support we can give her, but that support shouldn't turn out to burden the person more than it helps.


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## olwen (Nov 1, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> It's an ideology of removing all ideologies of control. It's one of resisting, rather than imposing. The critique that an ideology that calls for annulling ideologies that try to impose controls on people is not a valid one doesn't hold here. You may as well say that one isn't allowed to resist anything.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Lizzy, I read your post several times...I kinda had to...I guess I just didn't quite understand what you were getting at if it seems I misunderstood....were you not taking about how individuals should behave in groups and how groups should consider the individual and that individual needs should always trump group needs? Instead of the needs of many outweighing the needs of the few, you want it to be the other way around no?


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## Fascinita (Nov 1, 2009)

olwen said:


> Lizzy, I read your post several times...I kinda had to...I guess I just didn't quite understand what you were getting at if it seems I misunderstood....were you not taking about how individuals should behave in groups and how groups should consider the individual and that individual needs should always trump group needs? Instead of the needs of many outweighing the needs of the few, you want it to be the other way around no?



Thanks for taking the time, olwen.

I was saying that the primary reason support groups exist is to support individuals. And that ideology sometimes doesn't mix real well with a mission of interpersonal support. I was suggesting, too, that ideology is oppressive when applied in exactly the same manner of ideology it claims to oppose.

In the end, it's just one person's considered opinion. I'm loathe to take up this thread with too-lengthy explanations. Maybe I, or someone else, should start another thread? Lemme know.


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## olwen (Nov 1, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> Tau, you know those times when you feel rushed to be something that someone thinks you should be, because they think it's good for you? Have you ever felt frustrated by anything like that? Like someone saying you should get over the death of a loved one already, because they can see that you've been depressed for "too long." They mean well, but really, they may be putting on inappropriate pressure. Who's to say how long it should take anyone to mourn?
> 
> Similarly, who's to say that "self-love" and "self-acceptance" are what any single fat person needs to "fix" everything that's wrong.
> 
> ...



Okay, I didn't see this post until after I responded and I'm guessing this is what you were getting at.

I see what you are saying here - that we shouldn't offer feel good prescriptions to people because they could do more harm than good. That makes sense but at the same time it sounds kinda depressing, like it isn't possible for fat people to ever feel good about themselves. At this point it's probably splitting hairs, but isn't it just easier to say, "everyone gets to self acceptance at their own pace, and even if they don't that's okay too?"


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## Tau (Nov 1, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> Tina, I hear what you're saying. While I was not really fat until I hit puberty, when the fat hate eventually started to rain on me, it poured. It was devastating. I have horror stories.
> 
> The thing of it is, for me, whatever the antidote is to the messages that were internalized has to be something found by the individual. That's why I'm not comfortable with the idea of "codifying" fat self-acceptance, or with suggesting that "self-love" really is going to get 'er done. At some point, then, what appears to be on the surface a good idea offered in the name of support becomes a mantra that is just one more burden the fat person has to bear.
> 
> ...


Sorry chick, my computer spazzed out and I hadn't seen this response when I posted my question


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## Tau (Nov 1, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> Tau, you know those times when you feel rushed to be something that someone thinks you should be, because they think it's good for you? Have you ever felt frustrated by anything like that? Like someone saying you should get over the death of a loved one already, because they can see that you've been depressed for "too long." They mean well, but really, they _may_ be putting on inappropriate pressure. Who's--other than a qualified professional, of course--to say how long it should take anyone to mourn?
> 
> Similarly, who's to say that "self-love" and "self-acceptance" are what any single fat person needs to "fix" everything that's wrong.
> 
> ...



This i get and agree with 100% Thanks for clarifying. I think its also a case of allowing people to feel what they feel when they're feeling it - and also Olwen's earlier point about people owning and living in their own bodies with a right to change and experience those bodies as they see fit.


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## Fascinita (Nov 1, 2009)

olwen said:


> At this point it's probably splitting hairs, but isn't it just easier to say, "everyone gets to self acceptance at their own pace, and even if they don't that's okay too?"



Sure. I agree. One reason I was so long-winded  is that a number of other ideas were presented to me--about what constitutes a norm, for instance. And so I just wanted to go more in-depth into why I feel it's important to resist seeing fat people as belonging in a broad category that excludes them from the rest of people--whether by their hand or someone else's--or to assume that we all, as a class, benefit from the same things.

I know it's a bit academic :doh:, but I think if we're going to claim to have something good and helpful on offer in this informal setting, we have to be clear on where our own limits are--whatever those are. So I feel it's helpful to talk about these things openly and not assume we're all on the same page. To whatever extent we do have a community here, it's bound to be naturally diverse. My own views are just part of that diversity. 

I hope I haven't completely derailed this thread. Oy. :blush:


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## olwen (Nov 1, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> Sure. I agree. One reason I was so long-winded  is that a number of other ideas were presented to me--about what constitutes a norm, for instance. And so I just wanted to go more in-depth into why I feel it's important to resist seeing fat people as belonging in a broad category that excludes them from the rest of people--whether by their hand or someone else's--or to assume that we all, as a class, benefit from the same things.
> 
> I know it's a bit academic :doh:, but I think if we're going to claim to have something good and helpful on offer in this informal setting, we have to be clear on where our own limits are--whatever those are. So I feel it's helpful to talk about these things openly and not assume we're all on the same page. To whatever extent we do have a community here, it's bound to be naturally diverse. My own views are just part of that diversity.



Hmmm...i suspect this is related to the feeling some fat people have expressed - that they are more than their fat; that they are people who just happen to be fat. If people feel that way then it makes sense to not want to be put in a box....nobody wants to be put in a box really. But I confess that idea seems odd to me as I've always identified as fat and I feel I am who I am because of my size, so I am my fat and I want to have ownership of that, and I want it to be a category of people who get acknowledgment and respect. The good thing about being in a separate category is that it forces people to acknowledge/recognize your existence. As Ursula Leguin says, naming a thing gives it power.

Everything I know about the world has always been filtered thru a fat lens. Whether that lens has been imposed on me if or I have chosen it I couldn't say. That's just always how it has been, and that seems normal and okay to me. I try to imagine who I would be if I were not fat or if my size didn't matter but I truly find that difficult to imagine. 

I don't know that we can be on the same page about everything since fatness is soooo personal...Hell we can't even agree on when fatness starts. And yes, everyone does have their own personal limits on what their bodies can handle and what their coping skills are. Isn't it enough for someone to just say, "hey X is my limit," and everyone just respect that or is that what you actually are saying here?


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## Ernest Nagel (Nov 1, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> Tina, I hear what you're saying. While I was not really fat until I hit puberty, when the fat hate eventually started to rain on me, it poured. It was devastating. I have horror stories.
> 
> The thing of it is, for me, whatever the antidote is to the messages that were internalized has to be something found by the individual. That's why I'm not comfortable with the idea of "codifying" fat self-acceptance, or with suggesting that "self-love" really is going to get 'er done. At some point, then, what appears to be on the surface a good idea offered in the name of support becomes a mantra that is just one more burden the fat person has to bear.
> 
> ...



Can't recall the last time I was so aggravated at my depleted *rep*servoir? Can someone kindly honor Liz's sincerity and lucidity for me here? Thank you :bow:


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## olwen (Nov 1, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> I hope I haven't completely derailed this thread. Oy. :blush:



It all seems related to me since we are taking about how we all feel about being fat whether as individuals or as a group, but Tau started the thread, maybe she should weigh in too.


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## Tau (Nov 1, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> I hope I haven't completely derailed this thread. Oy. :blush:



Dude! No way! I've loved all the responses. Please keep posting


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## Tania (Nov 1, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> The thing of it is, for me, whatever the antidote is to the messages that were internalized has to be something found by the individual. That's why I'm not comfortable with the idea of "codifying" fat self-acceptance, or with suggesting that "self-love" really is going to get 'er done. At some point, then, what appears to be on the surface a good idea offered in the name of support becomes a mantra that is just one more burden the fat person has to bear.



I'm still half-assing this thread whilst dealing with other shit and I can't rep you again yet, but...yes. Resounding yes. Your road is not my road is not her road is not his road is not their road, and as such, our lifemaps may not match. At all. While our paths may intersect at the Corner of Fat Misery St. and Size Acceptance Ave., our starting points may be thousands of miles apart, and our journey's end divided by oceans. 

"Just love yourself" is as oppressive - and useless - as "Just lose the weight." In fact, I'd argue that it's WORSE. Most of us know how to lose weight, more or less, but NOBODY knows the secret to pulling happiness from thin air/their ass. There is no magic pill, no medical procedure, no guaranteed step-by-step instructions for quick and easy self-acceptance. If there were, we wouldn't be here discussing the issue. This is why the air of impatience I sometimes sense really ticks me off. 

I'd rather my dead grandmother rise from the grave to revisit her "fat people smell" lecture than endure a smug "just call it good and be happy, what the fuck is wrong with you?" from somebody who doesn't have a clue about me or my life. Unless you're a bulemic who's been dealing with some form of BDD for most of your life, a damn good therapist, or a preternaturally empathetic person, you're just not going to be equipped to judge my personal progress.


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## butch (Nov 1, 2009)

Yes, from the bottom of my heart, I love being a fat queer. A 300 pound, masculine looking, biowoman who only gets annoyed with being any of those things when rude people feel they have a right to offer up their negativity to me or people like me in public. Luckily, because I do a good job of not caring what they think, this public display happens very rarely with me.

I say this because it took me a very long time to truly mean what I wrote above, and so I think if others are struggling, and they want to reach a place where they fully accept their bodies, it is possible. For some, that means an aggressive and overt self-love, for others, it means an understanding of the balance at play in the universe and one's own self, and for others it means a million other things. The key is acceptance, right? Acceptance and love are not the same thing, so can we all at least agree on the idea that coming to self acceptance, regardless of your own beliefs about what a fat identity should be, is a good thing for us all?


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## Theresa48 (Nov 1, 2009)

Do I love my fat body? Yes. I love the curves and softness. I like the way I look. Do I love what is happening to me as I get older and no longer will my joints support the weight? No. Do I love the fact that my heart is rebelling against the work it takes to support my weight? No. Do I love the fact that I need to lose weight to remain mobile at a weight that I used to be able to handle with few problems? No. Losing weight is hell. And, I find myself trying to find ways to enjoy hell for the sake of my health. Nothing more than that. It is difficult to find people in my world that understand what I am experiencing. They see it as a black and white issue: lose weight...no problems. For me, it is losing a part of who I am. Hmmm...this is off topic? Sorry.


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## tinkerbell (Nov 1, 2009)

hmmm, do I love being a fat girl?

In general - no. It would be so much easier to go through life as an average sized person. It would be easier if I didn't have this addiction like attitude with food. 

I can and am lose weight, but its still not quite the same as going through life NEVER being fat. I'll still always think that when I hear someone laugh out in public, it might be directed toward me. Or that everyone is looking at me, thinking I'm the fattest person ever. I'll always have my stretch marks, my extra skin. I'll still always be some variance of that fat girl inside who was made fun of, regardless of my size. 

But I am who I am. I can either spend my life hating myself and my body, or just deal with it, and move on. I'd rather focus on things I can do than the size of my body. I'm learning to love my body for its strength, for what it can do. But love it because its fat? No, I love it because its mine.


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## Tooz (Nov 1, 2009)

tinkerbell said:


> It would be so much easier to go through life as an average sized person.



I feel like even bothering to think like this is self-defeating. For many of us, becoming "average-sized" is not an option. Sorry to make an example of you, because I don't necessarily mean you, but the thin fantasy many women harbor does nothing but harm them, even if it is a so-called "realistic" (I only want to be a size 18, not skinny!) fantasy.


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## Fascinita (Nov 1, 2009)

butch said:


> we all at least agree on the idea that coming to self acceptance, regardless of your own beliefs about what a fat identity should be, is a good thing for us all?



For me, it's about compassion for self and understanding of self. There are some things about me I want to change. So self-acceptance in that context is inappropriate.

Compassion, OTOH, allows me to work for personal change while at the same time remaining kind to myself if I fail. Compassion eradicates self-rejection while it fosters self-understanding (since applying it leads me to understand what my own motives are for feeling and doing as I do) and leaves room for whatever dynamic change I may need.

I have found in the past that the idea that I was "supposed to accept myself" left me feeling confused about whether that meant I could also want to change something about myself, to grow. That's why I think we'd better not agree "officially" that self-acceptance is a good thing. That sounds too much like we're saying we know what's best for others. 

Wherever anyone is on their journey, they are at the least human beings who deserve our compassion and love. As far as I'm concerned, those are the only "rules."

Congratulations, butch, on enjoying the fruits of your internal work.


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## olwen (Nov 1, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> For me, it's about compassion for self and understanding of self. There are some things about me I want to change. So self-acceptance in that context is inappropriate.
> 
> Compassion, OTOH, allows me to work for personal change while at the same time remaining kind to myself if I fail. Compassion eradicates self-rejection while it fosters self-understanding (since applying it leads me to understand what my own motives are for feeling and doing as I do) and leaves room for whatever dynamic change I may need.
> 
> ...



Fascinita, let me offer up an alternate point of view. I never once thought that accepting oneself meant it wasn't okay to change. In fact just the oppposite. Accepting oneself means you have to be able to accept the changes you go thru in addition to the process of changing. Even if along the way you find out things about yourself that surprise you and make you uncomfortable that is okay cause it's all part of who you are and that is how you learn who you are. It's impractical to imagine ourselves as hard rocks that can't be molded, rather we are more like clay or water. Tho clay may change shape, it is still clay. Water may fit into any space, but it is still water. 

I realize this is what you experienced and I'm not trying to invalidate your feelings or say they are wrong. They are what they are, but I am frankly shocked that anyone would think of self acceptance that way. It just never occured to me....it only seems logical to me that we should change in some ways as we get older. To me acceptance is just being able to accept who you are at every stage in that journey and if you don't accept who you are, it means something is wrong and something must be done to achieve some equilibrium...if you don't like something then change it. If changing something about yourself is hard (honestly most things are), then it's okay to accept that too as long as you can be happy with that but if you can't then it's all the more reason to try to change. Afterall, isn't life really about finding that equilibrium or in other words, following your heart?

I don't understand why the persuit of happiness needs to be something we should stay away from just because it's hard or painful. The payoff is contentment and to me that seems worth the struggle.


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## Tina (Nov 1, 2009)

I'm not sure that even if we were to agree "officially" that self-acceptance/self-love/a positive self-perception (to me they're almost the same thing, or at least related) is a good thing that it would matter. Who's put us in charge anyway? And even if so, of what?

I understand what you're saying, Lizzy, but where I get a little lost is that I don't really see anyone here, or elsewhere, trying to force people to feel better about themselves in order to fall lockstep on a march towards bringing fat acceptance to the world, or something. And how would any group enforce that anyway? I very much agree that being hard on oneself is fruitless and useless, and I think that (and believe most people think that) compassion for each other's experience and situation is important (when one removes the things that people get into arguments over; at least here). But I'm wondering where you see the sorts of behavior you're talking about -- where you've encountered it -- so as to feel that there is some sort of group-think about this stuff that you are against. Or are you just being philosophical in general? Maybe I'm missing context here.

ETA:I also agree with Olwen that accepting oneself and wanting to change some things about ourselves are not mutually exclusive. And pretty much everything else she has said. I'm appreciating this discussion, and seeing the varying POVs, very much.


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## Fascinita (Nov 1, 2009)

olwen said:


> Fascinita, let me offer up an alternate point of view. I never once thought that accepting oneself meant it wasn't okay to change. In fact just the oppposite. Accepting oneself means you have to be able to accept the changes you go thru in addition to the process of changing. Even if along the way you find out things about yourself that surprise you and make you uncomfortable that is okay cause it's all part of who you are and that is how you learn who you are. It's impractical to imagine ourselves as hard rocks that can't be molded, rather we are more like clay or water. Tho clay may change shape, it is still clay. Water may fit into any space, but it is still water.
> 
> I realize this is what you experienced and I'm not trying to invalidate your feelings or say they are wrong. They are what they are, but I am frankly shocked that anyone would think of self acceptance that way. It just never occured to me....it only seems logical to me that we should change in some ways as we get older. To me acceptance is just being able to accept who you are at every stage in that journey and if you don't accept who you are, it means something is wrong and something must be done to achieve some equilibrium...if you don't like something then change it. If changing something about yourself is hard (honestly most things are), then it's okay to accept that too as long as you can be happy with that but if you can't then it's all the more reason to try to change. Afterall, isn't life really about finding that equilibrium or in other words, following your heart?
> 
> I don't understand why the persuit of happiness needs to be something we should stay away from just because it's hard or painful. The payoff is contentment and to me that seems worth the struggle.




Olwen, I'm just offering my views. I've presented them as such. What works for me may not work for everyone else.

As well, I'm explaining why I think it's potentially harmful to codify what will lead anyone to their "happiness." Using terms that signify a concept that is obviously going to play out differently for everyone, in a way that suggests that there is one answer, doesn't seem productive to me.

That's the essence of what I'm saying. There is nothing in what I'm saying that even remotely suggests that we should be opposed to people finding their happiness. Just the opposite, in fact.

I suppose what I see as the difference between "self-acceptance" and "compassion" is that the first is a pop-psych term that's used blindly to mean anything from "I'm a fuck up and that's OK" to "I have body image problems and maybe I'd be better off being kinder to myself." No matter. If someone individually prefers "self-acceptance," I hope it's crystal clear that I have no problem with that. Nothing in the way I've conducted this dialogue suggests that I'm picking bones with anyone's individual choices. My only problem is when we, as groups, begin to want to dictate "self-acceptance" as a prescribed way out of what ails us.

And anyone who doesn't agree with me that it's counter-productive to speak with authority about what will make all fat people happy--or even just fat people in a sub-category of fat people... this way of classifying people strikes me as de-humanizing, for the record--can easily ignore what I have to say. I've been happy to talk to some of you about it, but it looks like that's just caused up more of a stir. It's not my intention to "shock" anyone by advocating _compassion_ for self and all human beings as something we can all opt into, beyond codified ideas that are easily confused with normative directives.  Compassion, I feel, is something everyone has intuitive access to. "Self-acceptance," because it's held up so frequently in authoritative ways as "ideal"--by the media and by the mental health community, for example--is a concept that may need explaining. And who does the explaining? Who gets to define what is "good" for self-acceptance?

No matter. For me this has now become an issue of expressing different views on what it means to be fat in the world.

It appears that my views are quite unorthodox. lol I hope there is room for them here without their constantly being challenged or misread. I was glad that last night it seemed I had made some progress and that my place in this dialogue had been confirmed. I'm glad to try to explain what I mean, but at a certain point, I begin to feel like I'm doing a whole lot of explaining just to validate the appropriateness of my views here.

Your post contains a number of ideas, olwen, which have nothing to do with what I've been saying. Maybe you're putting words in my mouth. Maybe I've failed to explain myself. I enjoy discussing this with you, but it looks like we're not understanding each other. Maybe we can agree that we both want good things for fat people and leave it at that.

For anyone reading, the first two paragraphs of this post are the most important viz. the topic at hand.


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## Tina (Nov 1, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> Olwen, I'm just offering my views. I've presented them as such. What works for me may not work for everyone else.


I understand, Lizzy, and feel just the same way about my own stated perspective. That's the thing that I believe we can all agree upon: it's a different road for everyone, even if some of the differences between experiences are small. It's okay for others to be further apart, and I really enjoy differing POVs.[/quote]


> It appears that my views are quite unorthodox. lol I hope there is room for them here without their constantly being challenged or misread. I was glad that last night it seemed I had made some progress and that my place in this dialogue had been confirmed. I'm glad to try to explain what I mean, but at a certain point, I begin to feel like I'm doing a whole lot of explaining just to validate the appropriateness of my views here.


Lizzy, I think there is a lot of room for varying views -- it makes discussions, and life, more interesting and lets us get to know each other a little better.

I'm sorry you feel as you stated in your last sentence there. I'm not wanting or trying to get you to validate your viewpoint -- I don't think it should need to be validated. I'm just trying to understand, probably, context more than anything else. I think that overall I agree with you (though agreement isn't necessary, IMO; it can be fun to disagree), but I'm not sure if you are saying that Dimensions as a whole, or some of us, or whomever, are trying to force people to feel better about themselves or be damned.  I think that because I don't really see that happening, and have tried to think of if I've ever seen it happen and have come up empty handed, that more than anything I wonder if yours isn't just a general statement/concept. Or maybe we see different things? Anyway, I have not been trying to impose anything upon you, and I hope you don't think I have. I've tried to be clear that these are my own views and experiences and that I also know that each person's needs and path is going to be different.

All in all, I've never really liked to be put into a box, either.


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## Tau (Nov 1, 2009)

Theresa48 said:


> Do I love my fat body? Yes. I love the curves and softness. I like the way I look. Do I love what is happening to me as I get older and no longer will my joints support the weight? No. Do I love the fact that my heart is rebelling against the work it takes to support my weight? No. Do I love the fact that I need to lose weight to remain mobile at a weight that I used to be able to handle with few problems? No. Losing weight is hell. And, I find myself trying to find ways to enjoy hell for the sake of my health. Nothing more than that. It is difficult to find people in my world that understand what I am experiencing. They see it as a black and white issue: lose weight...no problems. For me, it is losing a part of who I am. Hmmm...this is off topic? Sorry.


Not at all, and I totally understand where you're coming from. I've recently had to go on a very serious diet because my blood pressure was edging towards dangerous. On Monday I climbed onto the scale and I've lost 3 kilos. I wept  Being forced into losing this weight is hurting me, I resent every minute, I resent those lost kilos even though i know its for the best. So your point is very relevant.


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## olwen (Nov 1, 2009)

Fasc, I really am not trying to put words in your mouth and I really do want to understand you....maybe we are saying the same thing here - that fat people should just do whatever it is they need to do to find happiness. No?


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## Fascinita (Nov 1, 2009)

Tina said:


> I understand what you're saying, Lizzy, but where I get a little lost is that I don't really see anyone here, or elsewhere, trying to force people to feel better about themselves in order to fall lockstep on a march towards bringing fat acceptance to the world, or something. And how would any group enforce that anyway?



Tina, I see how ideas are used to keep people in line, to control them. And I'm cautioning us from lapsing into that. Those are the very tactics that are used to keep fat people (and thin people) in line in the world outside of Dimensions.

For an example of how this touches this community, I see the idea of enforced "confidence in our fat bodies" as normative. And that is certainly an idea that exists as such on these boards. Now you may disagree that it's ever harmful to encourage someone toward something as "positive" as confidence. And I'd have to reiterate that I think it's not appropriate for everyone.

In our rush to promote fat acceptance, we shouldn't rush to adopt normative practices that tend to make some feel oppressed or excluded.

That's all. :happy:


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## Fascinita (Nov 1, 2009)

olwen said:


> fat people should just do whatever it is they need to do to find happiness. No?



I would edit that to read, "I support the idea of allowing each person the freedom to find his or her own path to happiness, and I'll do what I can to add to that happiness, where appropriate, by showing compassion."

Yes.


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## olwen (Nov 1, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> I would edit that to read, "I support the idea of allowing each person the freedom to find his or her own path to happiness, and I'll do what I can to add to that happiness, where appropriate, by showing compassion."
> 
> Yes.



Woman, why didn't you just say that in the first place? LOL  That I understand perfectly.


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## TallFatSue (Nov 1, 2009)

Yes, I love being a fat girl. Life is not all a bowl of cherries jubilee, but every day I count my blessings that I live in a time and place of such abundance and high standards of living. My body is built for comfort and has a phenomenal capacity for fat production and storage, so methinx it would be a constant battle to lose weight. Some days it's a royal pain to carry around so much fat: heavy, awkward, bulky, bouncing around, slowing me down, affecting my balance, and hurting my legs and feet. As I grow older the aches and pains increase, but so far I've managed to avoid most of the health issues associated with obesity, and I hope my luck holds out, knock on wood (ow, my head!). Physically, some days it's annoying that my large breasts and huge belly hang out like the bow of a ship, getting in my own way. Good stylish clothes in my size are hard to find, or very expensive, not quite as bad as my younger days, but now I need to try on *cars* for fit too. Chairs are a form of Russian roulette. Even if a seat fits me, will it support me and can I haul myself out of it? Is that sturdy-looking chair actually stuffed with quicksand, just waiting to swallow my double-wide butt? 

Air travel is *The Voyage of the Damned*. "Any carry-on luggage?" "Aye, Captain, 2/3 of my body mass is fat. Permission to lug it aboard." I can endure airline seats a few hours *if* I raise the armrest and overflow onto my husband, and *if* he massages my bruised and squozen legs and hips back to life after I hobble off the plane. Flying overseas in sardine class is impossible. A couple months ago I flew to Berlin for a business matter, so I insisted on business class . . . and got it! Gee, fat as a negotiating tool -- who'd 'a' thunk it? 

It sounds kinda goofy, but I really love the look and feel of my fat: so soft and warm and comfy. Sometimes after a shower as I towel myself dry, I do little hops to watch my fat bounce in the mirror, and I'm just vain enough to think all this fat looks great on me. It's obvious I'm fat, so I try to dress well to flatter my figure and even flaunt it, within reason. I also like my long fat arms and legs, which I do show off when the weather is warm or I'm at the beach. And to a certain extent I enjoy the sensation of my fat bouncing around when I walk. Occasionally I envy thin women when I see how more convenient life might be, or when I'm curious what it's like to run without getting winded or my breasts hitting me in the face, but these are minor concerns.

Fat has certain benefits. My size gives me added presence and an aura of authority. Obesity forces me to be observant and to think independently and creatively, which serve me well both personally and professionally. As a tall fat woman I can hold my own with the men in the workplace, be assertive with implied physical strength and power, yet still be ultra curvy and feminine. I also feel that simply by being fat I've already broken some societal dictates, so I may as well transcend a few other barriers while I'm at it. It's also amusing to walk over to someone's desk to discuss an assignment, and find they speak to my belly or breasts more than my face. Maybe the sight of my belly hanging out over their desks fills them with the trepidation of an impending dam burst, but at least I have their attention, and my fat impinging on their personal space gets my point across.


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## Fascinita (Nov 1, 2009)

olwen said:


> That I understand perfectly.



I'm glad. Thanks!


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## tinkerbell (Nov 1, 2009)

Tooz said:


> I feel like even bothering to think like this is self-defeating. For many of us, becoming "average-sized" is not an option. Sorry to make an example of you, because I don't necessarily mean you, but the thin fantasy many women harbor does nothing but harm them, even if it is a so-called "realistic" (I only want to be a size 18, not skinny!) fantasy.



I dont think you read the rest of my post. Its not like I think like that all the time. That was my response to the question. Of course life for me would have been easier had I been built like my sisters, for example. Its just a fact. I know that I'm not as big as most people here, and even at my heaviest still wasn't as big as most here. But the fact is, in my life, my family, where I grew up, I was HUGE. I was always one of the fattest people in my school. I was the fattest of my sisters. And I went through HELL growing up. And to state the fact that, life would have been easier for me had I been "average sized" is just that, a fact. I dont think there is anything wrong with saying that. Its the truth. 

And losing weight doesn't change what I went through. I may be able to pass as an average sized chick when I get to my goal, but its still different, IMO. But everything I went through, made me who I am today, and I like me now. 

But as I said in the rest of my post:



> But I am who I am. I can either spend my life hating myself and my body, or just deal with it, and move on. I'd rather focus on things I can do than the size of my body. I'm learning to love my body for its strength, for what it can do. But love it because its fat? No, I love it because its *mine*.


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## Tooz (Nov 1, 2009)

tinkerbell said:


> I dont think you read the rest of my post.



I did read all of your post. I isolated that sentence to go off on a different tangent about body acceptance because it reminded me of something. I do believe I said I was NOT actually making an example of you.


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## Tina (Nov 1, 2009)

Fascinita said:


> Tina, I see how ideas are used to keep people in line, to control them. And I'm cautioning us from lapsing into that. Those are the very tactics that are used to keep fat people (and thin people) in line in the world outside of Dimensions.
> 
> For an example of how this touches this community, I see the idea of enforced "confidence in our fat bodies" as normative. And that is certainly an idea that exists as such on these boards. Now you may disagree that it's ever harmful to encourage someone toward something as "positive" as confidence. And I'd have to reiterate that I think it's not appropriate for everyone.
> 
> ...



Ah, okay. I am guessing you might well be referring at least a little to me, given the posts I've made here and in other threads over time. But I would say that encouragement is not pressure, and if I see a situation where a person is asking for feedback and they feel like shit about themselves, I think that the not-feeling-like-shit-about-oneself option is pretty much always a better choice than the feeling-like-shit-about-oneself option. Also, encouragement or giving a perspective isn't forcing, isn't even pressuring or insisting, and certainly isn't trying to remove the person's freedom to walk their own path or saying it's the only way. 


> I would edit that to read, "I support the idea of allowing each person the freedom to find his or her own path to happiness, and I'll do what I can to add to that happiness, where appropriate, by showing compassion."


I definitely agree with this, unless you're saying (and I'm not saying that you necessarily are, but if you are...) that just giving my experience of how seeing myself in a more positive light helped me to learn to appreciate my body more instead of hating it is "adopt[ing] normative practices that tend to make some feel oppressed or excluded." It's just one of the things that helped me in my own life, and what's right for me isn't going to be right for everyone. I have no illusions about that.


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## Tracyarts (Nov 2, 2009)

It's complicated.

I like being *me* in general. I like being me now that I am fat, and I liked being me just as much back when I was thin. 

But, I do not like the way being (this) fat impacts my life. Just like if I had cancer, I would still like being me, but would not like the way the cancer was impacting my life. 

In all honesty, if I were to lose 100 pounds, I would also be gushing about how much happier I was and how much better life was. Not because I weighed 100 pounds less, but because the ways that those 100 pounds impacted my life would be gone. Just like I have to be truthful and say that I am much happier and life is much better now than when I was 100 pounds heavier, for the same reasons. 

If somebody were to wave a magic wand and take away the health and mobility problems along with all the ways they impact my life, I would not have any problems being the size I currently am. 

Because for me, my weight is not a major part of my self-identity. So, I can easily compartmentalize my feelings about it and like being me but hate being this fat. 

Tracy


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## thatgirl08 (Nov 2, 2009)

I feel similarly to Tracy. It's not the weight itself, it's all the other shit that comes along with it. Health concerns, nasty comments & trouble finding clothes to name a few.


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## Isa (Nov 2, 2009)

Great points Tracy. I like myself now but loved the fat girl that I was about 100 to 150 lbs ago. She was the bomb, able to do anything and everything without health or any other issues. 

I'd kill or take any pill/surgery available to be that person again.


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## BeautifulPoeticDisaster (Nov 2, 2009)

Isa said:


> Great points Tracy. I like myself now but loved the fat girl that I was about 100 to 150 lbs ago. She was the bomb, able to do anything and everything without health or any other issues.
> 
> I'd kill or take any pill/surgery available to be that person again.



This. At 420 I was the shit. I had attitude, could kick my legs over my head, put up one hellova fight if someone dared to say a word to me. I miss that girl.....a lot.


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## Shosh (Nov 2, 2009)

I had WLS and I lost a lot of weight, but it did not make me happier. I looked and felt sick a lot.
I have since gained back a lot of weight, and I feel happy about it. I honestly feel I look healthier and I am feeling good about my body.


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## kayrae (Nov 2, 2009)

I'm happy to hear that, Susannah.


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## Jes (Nov 4, 2009)

I think Olwen's comment that accepting yourself doesn't mean you don't want to, or won't, change something about yourself, is really key. Who wants to be exactly the same over the course of an entire life? That's not much of a journey...

for me, I don't think I know what it means to love being a fat girl. I wouldn't know how to love being a blond girl or love being a short girl or any of that. It's a strange concept to me and so I can't really apply it to myself. That doesn't mean I don't accept those things about myself; the 2 are unrelated in my mind.


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## superodalisque (Nov 4, 2009)

yes i definitely do love it. dimensions helped me to examine that because i had never really thought about it much before i came here. but as early as i can remember i've felt comfortable the way that i am. i don't quite know why. my biggest issue was realizing that other people might not understand that. i just couldn't understand why it was a big deal to them. i was an athletic girl. i didn't feel ugly. i did everything i wanted to do. i just never took it as some big horrendus thing leveed on me. i liked my food. i liked my art. i loved my friends. i liked being outside. no big deal.

my earliest memories of being conscious of my weight was when i realized my thighs were larger than usual andi liked it. i thought they were pretty and i liked that they felt soft. recently i have lost a bit of weight accidentally while recovering from spinal cord damage and i realized that i actually missed it, like i had lost something. it amazes me that even though i'm still a super that feeling is as intense as it is. everyone has been telling me how slim my face looks now like it should be a compliment. its sweet of them to say something they think should please me but i have a feeling of loss when they say it. i'm not unhappy with how i look but its surprising to feel a little grief over changing since i'm the type who really thought i'd really be happy no matter what size i was. i guess i really do love being fat to a much greater degree than i had ever thought.

i feel a little sad about some of the things written earlier that indicate people should be happy with thier weight just because they feel its impossible for them to lose. i don't feel its impossible for one thing. and i also feel you have to really think about the fact that your life is not a consolation prize. its the real deal. so if you really want something you have to go for it and apply the discipline hard work research and take every bit of help that comes your way. you have one life and this is it. and even f you don;t get to be exactly where you want to be you'll be closer than if you didn't try.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Nov 4, 2009)

Lol, no, I don't love it. 

But then again, if I hated it that much, I wouldn't be fat. Period. 

I want to be what I prefer to be......not what others tell me to love....or hate.


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## phatfatgirl (Nov 4, 2009)

Love and respect a lot of the opinions on here and it's helped me shed light on myself.
That being said I'm still on my path to discovery. I love my softness. I also have very silky skin that while showering I think to myself "well hello!" lol
But then again.. I don't think I'd want to be skinny or slim but a 200s would be fine. And that's only because of issues I have with my feet and shoes, my weight and heels ... woo boy the pressure on my feet. And also just going somewhere and not having to worry about fitting into something, whether seats or doorways or seatbelts.. I have started a new job where climbing onto a train from the ground was a requirement. Can't get anymore physical than that and everyday I felt a great trepidation worrying about the climb
So do I absolutely love my fat? No.
But I don't "dislike" it enough to seriously change it.
lol I guess I love the softness more. :happy:


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## TallFatSue (Nov 5, 2009)

Tina said:


> Traveling is horrible most of the time, frankly, and it is the one time I will look over at some very thin woman on an airplane seat, legs folded and knees up, reading a book, and feel envious.


Sometimes I feel exactly the same when I lean over and try to tie my shoes like a thin person. I have long arms, but this belly of mine is still in the way. Oh that my reach should exceed my grasp, or what's a belly for? 

The only way I can tie my shoes reasonably normally is to stand and prop one foot on something, lean over, let my belly hang kinda sideways and then I can reach my shoe reasonably well. However this works only when I'm getting dressed in the morning, say I'm wearing slacks and I haven't yet buttoned or zipped them, so my belly is not yet, shall we say, "constrained" by a waistband. I learned that lesson the hard way once during a "Slack the Ripper" incident. :doh: If a shoe comes untied later in the day, I may duck into the ladies' room, release my belly and retie it. But sometimes that's a problem because my belly is still partially constrained, and this can literally make me short of breath as I lean over to tie my shoe. More likely I sit down, lift one ankle onto the other knee and tie the derelict shoelaces kinda sideways. Or I can sweet-talk someone else into tying my shoe straight for me. But sometimes minions aren't around when you need them. Curses! They've discovered my Achilles' Heel! 

Sometimes it's not easy being a BBW, or a SSBBW, but life is good and this is an example of how my size forces me to think independently and find good alternatives on how to deal with this and many other aspects of daily life. "Ve haff VAYS to tie ze shoe!"


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## bobbleheaddoll (Nov 5, 2009)

yes, i can say i love it. this is me. this is who i am. i love me. :wubu:


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## TallFatSue (Nov 5, 2009)

Once in a great while, some concerned citizen decides to take a personal interest in my welfare and try to sell a weight-loss program to me. Luckily it's pretty rare, but it happened the other day while I was shopping. There's no reasoning with them, because they're interested only in reducing the weight of my pocketbook, and that's what I told her. I also said that I doubt that losing weight would improve my quality of life. My fat is only one of many threads in the tapestry of life, and I like my tapestry. If I pulled out that thread, who knows what might unravel? Besides, what some view as a flaw in a tapestry, others view as a very interesting feature.


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## BBW4Chattery (Nov 6, 2009)

TallFatSue said:


> Once in a great while, some concerned citizen decides to take a personal interest in my welfare and try to sell a weight-loss program to me. Luckily it's pretty rare, but it happened the other day while I was shopping. There's no reasoning with them, because they're interested only in reducing the weight of my pocketbook, and that's what I told her. I also said that I doubt that losing weight would improve my quality of life. My fat is only one of many threads in the tapestry of life, and I like my tapestry. If I pulled out that thread, who knows what might unravel? Besides, what some view as a flaw in a tapestry, others view as a very interesting feature.



OMG, I would slap someone. Seriously, I would slap someone so hard. You must be much more patient than me.

I've been called out in public once. It was some kids outside the mall who were yelling "harpoon." I let it pass as I went inside but when I came out and they did it again, I walked over to them and sat down and asked them, "WTF?"

So, some adult trying to sell me diet stuff would get punched... and I've never punched anyone... but that seems like a good place to start.


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## Brenda (Nov 6, 2009)

No, I wish I were much thinner. I do love my life and do not hate myself for being fat. There were times when I was much more enthusiastic about being fat but that was quite a few pounds and years ago.

Brenda


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## StarWitness (Nov 6, 2009)

I haven't been able to participate in this thread as much as I would have liked, on account of not being on my computer as often, but I just wanted to say that it was wonderful to see a disagreement that unfolded in such a civil, thoughtful, and well-spoken manner. And on the Internet, no less! Kudos.


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## Weeze (Nov 7, 2009)

Tania said:


> Outside of that zone, I don't look or feel like myself anymore. I look hideous TO MYSELF, and it really doesn't matter if 99 out of 100 My Moms or Hot Boys try to convince me otherwise.



ohh my god. 
quote quote quote quote quote quote quote for truth


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## Neen (Nov 7, 2009)

No i do not like being my size at all. Sadly, i'm extremely uncomfortable. i work on trying to accept myself at any size and love myself.. we'll see. I'd rather be not super thin, but smaller. Sick of getting out of breath, stopping when i'm climbing stairs, ect.


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## KatsPyjamas (Nov 7, 2009)

Yes I am perfectly happy being a fat girl. I always have been, thanks.

I've not been perfectly happy with the way I've been treated as a fat girl, as a woman, as somebody claims benefits, as queer, etc. My problem is largely with other people.


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## iwasneveranormalgirl (Nov 7, 2009)

I wouldn't say I love it but I'd say I'm content with it, I'm ok with it. To be honest my body isnt really something I'm all that concerned about.

However, I dont love anything about how it affects my health.


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## katherine22 (Nov 7, 2009)

To accept oneself as a fat girl implies a fixed position, a yes or no answer. Self-acceptance is fluid, sometimes elusive and made obfuscated by language.


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## KatsPyjamas (Nov 8, 2009)

katherine22 said:


> To accept oneself as a fat girl implies a fixed position, a yes or no answer. Self-acceptance is fluid, sometimes elusive and made obfuscated by language.



I like this answer too. I accept myself as a person.


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## Tau (Nov 12, 2009)

Really, relly great responses  

@SuperA - I had an experience like you describe yesterday morning as I left for work. I've had to go on a diet to shed some weight cos of my blood pressure and the diet is working, but I am so deeply, deeply grieved by the loss. When I try to tell my friends about it - they're all thin - they get these uncomfortable, fixed looks on their faces. Yesterday I wore a wrap dress I havent in a while and one of them said: My God, you've gotten so thin! I just felt so hollow at that. I was like - you haven't heard a single thing about how much this bother's me. Yes, they think they're being nice, but after years of hearing me speak about my fat you think they'd finally realise that to me that is not nice to hear *sigh*

@TS, I don't wear strappy anything on my feet anymore, tying shoelaces just sucks the big one. Thank God for those sticky strap things - velcro I think its called -sandals and strapless heels!

@BBW4Chattery - Me too!!!


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## TraciJo67 (Nov 12, 2009)

I was thin into my early 20's, then chubby, then fat, then very fat ... then fat, then chubby, then thin again. I am now what would at least be considered chubby. Most people know, I had WLS. It wasn't for cosmetic reasons. I was in my mid-30's, struggling with infertility, and my ob/gyn and fertility specialist wouldn't treat me with fertility drugs due to my weight. WLS was recommended to me for both my co-morbids and as a real possibility for resolving my infertility problems. I've been the spectrum in terms of size, although never into SSBBW territory, at least not as defined by most people at Dims. One thing I've learned about myself, in the process of yo-yo'ing up ... down ... up ... down: I have at times used my size as a very handy excuse for not trying, for not trying hard enough, for giving up too soon and as an all-encompassing blanket for explaining to myself why I didn't get this promotion or why that person treated me badly, etc. It wasn't me! It was my fat that he/she/other was reacting to  This is not to say that I *wasn't* treated differently, or that sometimes I didn't get the job (or whatever else it was I was gunning for) due only to my size. But looking back, I think that for the most part, it was something else entirely, and something that I didn't want to examine very deeply.

I didn't love being fat. I was at most neutral about it. It was just a part of who I was and ... I know that this won't be understood by everyone ... but it is also a part of who I still am. I self-identify as a fat woman. I have no dysmorphia issues (if anything, it goes the other way -- I look at myself and think that I'm thin and objectively speaking, at 165 pounds, I am not). It's deeper than that, to me. I'm not sure that I have the words to explain it, but I am sure that I lack the motivation to try


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## Ruffie (Nov 12, 2009)

To be totally honest I would have to say I am more accepting of it than I love being a fat girl. I have always been fat and from a very young age was let know that wasn't acceptable as my mom hated being a fat woman. She put me on my first diet at age 8 and I dieted for about 14 years till I finally threw away the scale and decided this is who I am. I was the happiest as a mid size BBW before I had my kids I had lost 75lbs and was teaching aerobics for large sized women, active in the Canadian operations of NAAFA and my local group above average. At that size I was comfortable in my own skin, was much more mobile (course I was much younger then) and still had my identity as a fat girl.

For me as I start to age its more the limitations the weight puts on my energy and activity levels. I work hard, very hard and I hate not being able to do all I want. I have with many years of work on myself come to own who I am outer and inner package and do not apologize for either. The inner confidence and acceptance has helped me to blossom in my day to day relationships and career. So lets say I am the fat girl who has come to terms with herself and is living life large!


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## AuntHen (Nov 16, 2009)

i think I just have a love-hate relationship with my looks period... sometimes I feel confident and beautiful, other days i feel blah and nothing to look at... I think weight has nothing to do with it really, because I felt this way when I weighed alot less


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## KittyKitten (Nov 18, 2009)

_*Now you know where I stand. I don't think most people would call me "fat", but I love being a thick girl. I love the big boobs and large round ass. Yeah, I have a slight gut I can't stand, but I love everything else---anyways, it doesn't throw off my proportions. I NEVER had a problem with male attention.

*_


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## AuntHen (Dec 2, 2009)

today I don't


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## LovelyLiz (Dec 3, 2009)

fat9276 said:


> today I don't



Sorry to hear that.  Something happen? Or just a bad day?


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## AuntHen (Dec 3, 2009)

womanforconversation said:


> Sorry to hear that.  Something happen? Or just a bad day?



bad day...er...week :doh:


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## aussieamazonwoman (Dec 5, 2009)

I'm not sure i LOVE being a fat girl, like some others who've commented in this thread.

The thing is, after a very long journey through being a fat kid, ridiculously tall all of my life and struggling as a teen and through my 20's with the whole "I'll never be beautiful because I'm fat" thing, I can truly say I now touch moments where I love myself, and yes, being fat is part of that. I never thought I would ever get to this point.

Throughout my life I always had heaps of male attention/boyfriends, but when I was younger I think I was sooooo sensitive about myself that I spent way too long feeling terrible and didn't often believe that my boyfriends/lovers *really* wanted me. This definitely affected these relationships negatively. I went through a long stage, I think triggered by being big/tall etc where I seemed to pick on anything about myself and denigrate it. This feeling has been harder to heal than my perceptions of my body.

I think finally, in my 30's (I'm 36 now), I have found a kind of peace with my body, and I have bits of it I love.


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## indy500tchr (Dec 5, 2009)

never been at a healthy weight...never will....have come to terms with that...it's hard...especially now to love myself....not really liking it at the moment.


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## Tracy (Dec 7, 2009)

Do I really, from the bottom of my heart, love being fat? Yes & No! Yes, I love myself just the way I am.  I'm a big, tall fat woman and I love it and I will not change myself again for anyone. What I don't like about being a fat lady is not how I feel about myself but the feeling I get when I'm around other people who apparently are not comfortable being around me because I am a fat lady. There are times when I'm around family and friends I get this weird sense that they feel sorry for me because I am a fat lady. I really don't think that they stop to think about how they are acting or how the words that are coming out of their mouths make them look like idiots. This really drive me freakin crazy. If they would take the time to look at my life and what all I have going for me instead of looking at my fat body then they would realize that I'm a very content and happy person just as I am. I have come to realize over this past year that my family really has issues with people of size. Sad very sad!!


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## aussieamazonwoman (Dec 8, 2009)

Tracy, first of all, love you Venus of Willendorf avatar

Secondly, I relate re the family thing - I get this weird kind of sympathy around my extended family the subtext of which is something along the lines of "Oh, K's not married because she isn't a looker, because only thin blonde surfer girls have any worth in this world". It is sometimes compounded by the fact that I am adopted, and the rest of my extended family have these thin, small "classical beauty" genes. They are completely freaked out by my 6 foot one inch tall amazon look. They are even more freaked out that I wear this "burden" in a ridiculously hourglass figure, so they ALWAYS think I look tarty (I cannot help it if I have big boobs and a small waist for my size and hips in an extra large package). Then they think I am "edgy" because I am very outgoing, pretty alternative in my beliefs and politics and tell people, mostly nicely, what I think (like fat girls are meant to be quiet and sit in the corner apologetic that they are so un-normal)


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## Tracy (Dec 8, 2009)

Thank you Aussieamazonwoman!


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## katherine22 (Dec 13, 2009)

aussieamazonwoman said:


> Tracy, first of all, love you Venus of Willendorf avatar
> 
> Secondly, I relate re the family thing - I get this weird kind of sympathy around my extended family the subtext of which is something along the lines of "Oh, K's not married because she isn't a looker, because only thin blonde surfer girls have any worth in this world". It is sometimes compounded by the fact that I am adopted, and the rest of my extended family have these thin, small "classical beauty" genes. They are completely freaked out by my 6 foot one inch tall amazon look. They are even more freaked out that I wear this "burden" in a ridiculously hourglass figure, so they ALWAYS think I look tarty (I cannot help it if I have big boobs and a small waist for my size and hips in an extra large package). Then they think I am "edgy" because I am very outgoing, pretty alternative in my beliefs and politics and tell people, mostly nicely, what I think (like fat girls are meant to be quiet and sit in the corner apologetic that they are so un-normal)



Be out there ---be totally irrevocably out there!


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## BeverlyBodylicious (Dec 17, 2009)

You can call me crazy, but I really enjoy myself and feel far more confident about myself as the SSBBW I've become. For far to long I fought my body and starved myself and worked out like a crazy woman to stay under 200 lbs. Thank God I met the man that released me from that hell and let me be and love me for the woman I am. I'm PHATT and I proud of it!!


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## lovelocs (Dec 18, 2009)

I read an article online about kids with cleft palates, and how they saw themselves. The article stated that deep down, many kids they knew they were ok, but they also knew that other people would never think they were ok, just because of the way they looked.
I think it's the same way with being fat. I know I'm ok, some have even called me attractive. Many people have enjoyed my company. I also know that I have a visible flaw that anyone can attack at will, with impunity. Fat people are targets for insecure, miserable people. Also, because i am rather tall as well as fat, I feel like my outsides don't match my insides. People expect me to be mentally and emotionally competent, because I'm physically dominant. But I'm really one of the most easygoing, retiring people you'll meet, and I actually like being in the background. Being "out front" all the time is a huge emotional strain. If I could be, I'd be 5'1", and about 115 lbs. Maybe then someone could protect me for a change.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Dec 19, 2009)

lovelocs said:


> I read an article online about kids with cleft palates, and how they saw themselves. The article stated that deep down, many kids they knew they were ok, but they also knew that other people would never think they were ok, just because of the way they looked.
> I think it's the same way with being fat. I know I'm ok, some have even called me attractive. Many people have enjoyed my company. I also know that I have a visible flaw that anyone can attack at will, with impunity. Fat people are targets for insecure, miserable people. Also, because i am rather tall as well as fat, I feel like my outsides don't match my insides. People expect me to be mentally and emotionally competent, because I'm physically dominant. But I'm really one of the most easygoing, retiring people you'll meet, and I actually like being in the background. Being "out front" all the time is a huge emotional strain. If I could be, I'd be 5'1", and about 115 lbs. Maybe then someone could protect me for a change.



Yet another post of yours that I enjoyed reading, thanks. I like the way you explained this....it makes a lot of sense to me.

For me.....my outside physical self never matches what I see in my mind's eye when I imagine my body.......


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## Tau (Dec 20, 2009)

lovelocs said:


> ... Also, because i am rather tall as well as fat, I feel like my outsides don't match my insides. People expect me to be mentally and emotionally competent, because I'm physically dominant. But I'm really one of the most easygoing, retiring people you'll meet, and I actually like being in the background. Being "out front" all the time is a huge emotional strain. If I could be, I'd be 5'1", and about 115 lbs. Maybe then someone could protect me for a change.



I really love this post  I know exactly what you mean - in my head I'm an Amazon - I'm tall and terrifying and imposing, just this amazing, domineering, towering figure LOL! In fact i just barely make 1,5 meters - I actually think I'm 4 foot 9 or something and when people first meet me they tend to describe me as adorable, cute, bit of an airhead. I'm not complaining too hard cos it often means people carry heavy things for me  but it also means setting a lot of people straight about what i'm capable of because I'm very often underestimated. I've met several women who in their minds eye are very different from what they actually are physically - as you said outside not matcthing insides. An ex boss always used to get really upset whenever she looked in the mirror before a meeting cos, as she put it, "I'm so much hotter than this in my head!"


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## Tania (Dec 20, 2009)

lovelocs said:


> If I could be, I'd be 5'1", and about 115 lbs. Maybe then someone could protect me for a change.



I think I understand, kinda. On the inside, I'm very small, very young, and very vulnerable.


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## Tooz (Dec 20, 2009)

Tania said:


> I think I understand, kinda. On the inside, I'm very small, very young, and very vulnerable.



On occasion I feel this way. Externally, I'm 5'8.5, with shoulders like a freaking linebacker. I could be 150 pounds and I'd still be...not dainty.


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## AuntHen (Dec 21, 2009)

lovelocs said:


> I read an article online about kids with cleft palates, and how they saw themselves. The article stated that deep down, many kids they knew they were ok, but they also knew that other people would never think they were ok, just because of the way they looked.
> I think it's the same way with being fat. I know I'm ok, some have even called me attractive. Many people have enjoyed my company. I also know that I have a visible flaw that anyone can attack at will, with impunity. Fat people are targets for insecure, miserable people. Also, because i am rather tall as well as fat, I feel like my outsides don't match my insides. People expect me to be mentally and emotionally competent, because I'm physically dominant. But I'm really one of the most easygoing, retiring people you'll meet, and I actually like being in the background. Being "out front" all the time is a huge emotional strain. If I could be, I'd be 5'1", and about 115 lbs. Maybe then someone could protect me for a change.




I totally relate to this... inside I feel graceful and gentile, but people see this fat amazon  I put up a wall of toughness and strength alot of times, but I am pretty wimpy (physically) and actually kind of vulnerable and fragile  One of my friends says I have a tough shell but am mushy gushy inside..hahaha. The shell I am sure is from years and years of hurts etc (learned protectiveness)


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## steely (Dec 22, 2009)

Today, not so much.


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## Tau (Dec 22, 2009)

steely said:


> Today, not so much.



*hugz you*


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## steely (Dec 22, 2009)

Tau said:


> *hugz you*



Thanks, Tau :happy:


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## AuntHen (Dec 25, 2009)

When I am with my little 2 1/2 yr old niece, yes! she loves her fat aunt! She loves to snuggle in my fat softness and calls my boobs my "belly" hahahaha. She is so precious. I have heard that babies/little kids take to pretty, fat ladies very naturally (not saying I am pretty btw). Maybe the rest of the fat hating part of world needs to look through the eyes of little children :wubu::smitten: awwwww


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## Hathor (Dec 31, 2009)

littlefairywren said:


> I don't love it from the bottom of my heart. But, I have grown to love it...at least somewhat.



That's how I feel. I hated it growing up with all the teasing and being the brunt of jokes. Now I'm not teased just sometimes looked at with disdain, but dammit, it's who I am now. Being fat is just a part of me now, for better or for worse.


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## Pharadox (Dec 31, 2009)

The strange thing is that I think most of the reason I have hated being fat in the past is because of my own perceptions of fat. Even though I have always been fat, I never felt teased growing up. I've been mocked as an adult by other adults, but that began long after I'd already decided on my own that there was something very wrong with the way that I looked.

I don't think I can say yet that I love being a fat girl, but I have have come a very long way. I still worry a lot about health issues. But feeling good about the way that I look? That's something I never felt for a long time. I felt that because I disliked this one thing about myself, my body size, it made all of me ugly. I felt that I couldn't possibly be beautiful for all the other things that I was, just because of that one thing. 

I don't feel that way anymore. I'm beautiful. And I completely believe that, as a fat girl, I deserve to be loved. So I'm getting there.


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## elle camino (Jan 3, 2010)

Good question, great thread. 
Like many others have said more eloquently by now: short answer - no. Long answer - I don't really think about it as a love/like vs. hate/dislike thing - it's just what I am, and always has been. 
Also it's hard to answer such a question totally truthfully here (on this website) because one of the best parts about Dims is that it's a really fat-positive place to be. 
I'm definitely not miserable about being fat, and I look at most other fat chicks and think "she's so gorgeous", so it's not like I have some deep, dark hatred of all fat going on. It's just that the way I happen to be fat doesn't appeal to me. I look at pictures of myself and like 99% of the time I wanna cry, if we're being honest. It's not just that I don't look thin - there are pictures of me where I'm 100% double (triple, quadruple) chins which I absolutely love (edit - see my profile picture for an example). It's mostly that I don't dig my overall shape. I'd rather have no fat, if ALL the fat I have is just going to land on my belly. 
Plus I love clothes and hate how limited my options are at my size. 
Plus I know my dating life would be a LOT less annoying and complicated if I didn't have the whole fat issue to deal with. 

So, yeah. I don't hate it but I certainly don't love it. It's just who I am, and what I have to work with.


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## AuntHen (Jan 3, 2010)

Pharadox said:


> The strange thing is that I think most of the reason I have hated being fat in the past is because of my own perceptions of fat. Even though I have always been fat, I never felt teased growing up. I've been mocked as an adult by other adults, but that began long after I'd already decided on my own that there was something very wrong with the way that I looked.
> 
> I don't think I can say yet that I love being a fat girl, but I have have come a very long way. I still worry a lot about health issues. But feeling good about the way that I look? That's something I never felt for a long time. I felt that because I disliked this one thing about myself, my body size, it made all of me ugly. I felt that I couldn't possibly be beautiful for all the other things that I was, just because of that one thing.
> 
> I don't feel that way anymore. I'm beautiful. And I completely believe that, as a fat girl, I deserve to be loved. So I'm getting there.



this was a great reply!:happy:


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## AuntHen (Jan 3, 2010)

I think the hardest thing about being fat (physically) that I dislike and have a hard time saying "I am beautiful" about, is my double chin. I don't know why, but it bugs me sooo badly and I am working so hard to not find it ghastly when I see it in the mirror or in a picture, but just say "that is me!" double chin and all. I also still can't stand most pics of me (especially with the ol' double chin in action). I try to smile more in pics now instead of trying to hide when someone yells SMILE and just say "that's me" instead of "ewww THAT'S ME??!!" when I see it later


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## Pharadox (Jan 3, 2010)

fat9276 said:


> I think the hardest thing about being fat (physically) that I dislike and have a hard time saying "I am beautiful" about, is my double chin. I don't know why, but it bugs me sooo badly and I am working so hard to not find it ghastly when I see it in the mirror or in a picture, but just say "that is me!" double chin and all. I also still can't stand most pics of me (especially with the ol' double chin in action). I try to smile more in pics now instead of trying to hide when someone yells SMILE and just say "that's me" instead of "ewww THAT'S ME??!!" when I see it later



YES. Growing up my double chin was the bane of my existence.  I obsessed so much about my double chin that I made my sister neurotic about her tiny little bit of double chin, too. It is something that I only recently came to terms with.

Just for the record, though, you're gorgeous. I just took a peek at your profile picture and you're absolutely gorgeous. Your chin is, too.  And please, keep smiling, because it's a wonderful look on you.

It's funny how we always think we look worse in pictures than anyone else does. We get so used to seeing ourselves in mirrors and thinking "Hey, there I am, that's what I look like" which is really a very limited self-view, that when we see ourselves in pictures at so many different angles it's a real shock to the system. That's my theory, at least.


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## Hathor (Jan 3, 2010)

fat9276 said:


> I think the hardest thing about being fat (physically) that I dislike and have a hard time saying "I am beautiful" about, is my double chin. I don't know why, but it bugs me sooo badly and I am working so hard to not find it ghastly when I see it in the mirror or in a picture, but just say "that is me!" double chin and all. I also still can't stand most pics of me (especially with the ol' double chin in action). I try to smile more in pics now instead of trying to hide when someone yells SMILE and just say "that's me" instead of "ewww THAT'S ME??!!" when I see it later



You see that and when I looked on your profile I just thought, "She's so pretty." 
 
So perception is everything. =)


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## littlefairywren (Jan 4, 2010)

fat9276 said:


> I think the hardest thing about being fat (physically) that I dislike and have a hard time saying "I am beautiful" about, is my double chin. I don't know why, but it bugs me sooo badly and I am working so hard to not find it ghastly when I see it in the mirror or in a picture, but just say "that is me!" double chin and all. I also still can't stand most pics of me (especially with the ol' double chin in action). I try to smile more in pics now instead of trying to hide when someone yells SMILE and just say "that's me" instead of "ewww THAT'S ME??!!" when I see it later



The other ladies are right.

When I see your face, all I see is how beautiful and radiant you look. Not just your profile pic, even in your hoodie!
In fact the first thing that I see, is your eyes. Don't hide that smile


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## AuntHen (Jan 4, 2010)

Pharadox said:


> YES. Growing up my double chin was the bane of my existence.  I obsessed so much about my double chin that I made my sister neurotic about her tiny little bit of double chin, too. It is something that I only recently came to terms with.
> 
> Just for the record, though, you're gorgeous. I just took a peek at your profile picture and you're absolutely gorgeous. Your chin is, too.  And please, keep smiling, because it's a wonderful look on you.
> 
> It's funny how we always think we look worse in pictures than anyone else does. We get so used to seeing ourselves in mirrors and thinking "Hey, there I am, that's what I look like" which is really a very limited self-view, that when we see ourselves in pictures at so many different angles it's a real shock to the system. That's my theory, at least.





Hathor said:


> You see that and when I looked on your profile I just thought, "She's so pretty."
> 
> So perception is everything. =)





littlefairywren said:


> The other ladies are right.
> 
> When I see your face, all I see is how beautiful and radiant you look. Not just your profile pic, even in your hoodie!
> In fact the first thing that I see, is your eyes. Don't hide that smile



thanks ladies! the feeling is mutual TRUST me! :wubu:


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## katherine22 (Jan 7, 2010)

Pharadox said:


> The strange thing is that I think most of the reason I have hated being fat in the past is because of my own perceptions of fat. Even though I have always been fat, I never felt teased growing up. I've been mocked as an adult by other adults, but that began long after I'd already decided on my own that there was something very wrong with the way that I looked.
> 
> I don't think I can say yet that I love being a fat girl, but I have have come a very long way. I still worry a lot about health issues. But feeling good about the way that I look? That's something I never felt for a long time. I felt that because I disliked this one thing about myself, my body size, it made all of me ugly. I felt that I couldn't possibly be beautiful for all the other things that I was, just because of that one thing.
> 
> I don't feel that way anymore. I'm beautiful. And I completely believe that, as a fat girl, I deserve to be loved. So I'm getting there.




Good for you. One of my co-workers is a young fat woman who is gorgeous. We have talked about body issues. I make a point to tell her how great she looks in her clothes, and it is important for fat women to be supportive of other fat women.


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## littlefairywren (Jan 7, 2010)

katherine22 said:


> Good for you. One of my co-workers is a young fat woman who is gorgeous. We have talked about body issues. *I make a point to tell her how great she looks in her clothes, and it is important for fat women to be supportive of other fat women*.



I agree with you Katherine. But I have only ever found support as a fat woman here on Dims. If I have ever shown support for a fat woman IRL it almost never goes well. It is lovely to think that there is some kind of camaraderie between fat women or fat people in general, but it rarely occurs.


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## steely (Jan 7, 2010)

littlefairywren said:


> I agree with you Katherine. But I have only ever found support as a fat woman here on Dims. If I have ever shown support for a fat woman IRL it almost never goes well. It is lovely to think that there is some kind of camaraderie between fat women or fat people in general, but it rarely occurs.



I find this to be true as well, littlefairy. I do try to be supportive but most fat women look at me like I'm crazy if I tell them how nice they look. I don't know exactly why that is but it makes me shy of offering compliments.


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## AuntHen (Jan 7, 2010)

steely said:


> I find this to be true as well, littlefairy. I do try to be supportive but most fat women look at me like I'm crazy if I tell them how nice they look. I don't know exactly why that is but it makes me shy of offering compliments.




I agree too... some I have found only find comradarie in talking about diets, losing weight etc ugh

I also have found some of them look at me like they are looking in a mirror and do not like what they see :doh:


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## katherine22 (Jan 8, 2010)

steely said:


> I find this to be true as well, littlefairy. I do try to be supportive but most fat women look at me like I'm crazy if I tell them how nice they look. I don't know exactly why that is but it makes me shy of offering compliments.




Steely, I love your picture in your avatar. You are so pretty. Offering compliments is just one way of being supportive of fat women. Another way is modeling behavior. I am a fat woman who wears beautiful clothes not to mention that I am an intelligent sex goddess, and I go out in the world with such confidence that you are either going to be good to me or you are going to have to leave the room. I will not stand for less. Last night a co-worker suggested that I was losing weight, and I said to her in front of several other co-workers that I have no damn intention of losing weight because I am a hot fat bitch.


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## steely (Jan 8, 2010)

Thank you, Catherine. :happy: Sometimes I get the feeling they don't think I am sincere or maybe they just can't see that beauty in themselves. I know I couldn't for a long time. I carry myself as I always have, an overgrown puppy. I guess I'm silly but I am always sincere.

Now that I have lost weight, I find myself in another category, altogether. For some reason people think I have come to my senses, I am still larger than anyone I know. I find myself telling people it wasn't the fat, it was the fact that diabetes will kill you. For the past few years, I really didn't care about the weight. Some people just don't believe that. Most days I really like who I am and who I'm becoming.


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## katherine22 (Jan 8, 2010)

steely said:


> Thank you, Catherine. :happy: Sometimes I get the feeling they don't think I am sincere or maybe they just can't see that beauty in themselves. I know I couldn't for a long time. I carry myself as I always have, an overgrown puppy. I guess I'm silly but I am always sincere.
> 
> Now that I have lost weight, I find myself in another category, altogether. For some reason people think I have come to my senses, I am still larger than anyone I know. I find myself telling people it wasn't the fat, it was the fact that diabetes will kill you. For the past few years, I really didn't care about the weight. Some people just don't believe that. Most days I really like who I am and who I'm becoming.




It is so ironic. It took me so long to accept myself as fat. I know I would lose weight if a doctor told me that it was exacerbating my diabetes. I would hate it though somehow the weight is hooked up to self-acceptance.


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## steely (Jan 9, 2010)

katherine22 said:


> [/COLOR]
> 
> It is so ironic. It took me so long to accept myself as fat. I know I would lose weight if a doctor told me that it was exacerbating my diabetes. I would hate it though somehow the weight is hooked up to self-acceptance.



I know, I feel like I fought so hard to accept myself and now it's pointless. I'll never be thin, by any means but it seems so strange, just when I started really coming into my own, I have lost weight as a side effect. I'm sure there is a lesson in there somewhere. I think maybe the universe is thumbing it's nose at me. :doh:


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## Jes (Jan 9, 2010)

steely said:


> I know, I feel like I fought so hard to accept myself and now it's pointless. I'll never be thin, by any means but it seems so strange, just when I started really coming into my own, I have lost weight as a side effect. I'm sure there is a lesson in there somewhere. I think maybe the universe is thumbing it's nose at me. :doh:



maybe the goal is to learn to accept ourselves, and to continue accepting ourselves, no matter what we look like, or what changes we make to ourselves, or how other people react to us. So easy to type, so hard to do.


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## salva67 (Jan 9, 2010)

i am new member...i read your thread...i must say to all BBW do to worry about anything because you are beautiful women and unlikely to be found around ...!


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## calauria (Jan 11, 2010)

first of all i would like to say thank you for this thread. i'm not sure if i've accepted anything about myself, yet...and i'm 38 yrs. old. i try, but it seems like when i'm making progress someone or something comes along and knocks it down, leaving me back at square one, again. i'm african american and i grew up in a family that not only was emotionally abusive, but also physically and sexually....they saw me as too fat, skin too dark and i don't act black enough blah blah blah blah...... not anything about me was ever good or ok with anybody...even in friendships and romantic relationships. i was always too this, too that, not enough this or not enough that...always some bullshit like that...now, that i'm 38 and tired, the only solution i think i have to stay out of these toxic and abusive relationships is to just stay away from people all together....i don't befriend or talk to anyone, really in real life, unless i have to...online i do, because it's a lot safer, physically.....


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## Jes (Jan 11, 2010)

salva67 said:


> i am new member...i read your thread...i must say to all BBW do to worry about anything because you are beautiful women and unlikely to be found around ...!



I...don't know what that means.


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## ashmamma84 (Jan 11, 2010)

I enjoy my shape and my size. I know I'm sexy, I know I'm beautiful. I even like my stretch marks (they make me feel fierce like a tiger! lol) As I've gotten older I've learned to stop being so sensitive. Sometimes people stare because they actually like what they see, not because I'm Shrek's twin. Not only that, but most times people are wayyyy to into themselves to pay that close attention to what I'm doing, etc. It take a lot of worry away knowing that. 

Before coming do Dims I never felt bad about being curvy and that's probably because I've always had the support of my family, friends, etc. So I was never made to feel less than. I originally found Dims doing a search for plus size fashion forums or something to that effect, but I'm glad I've stuck around.


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## steely (Jan 11, 2010)

calauria said:


> first of all i would like to say thank you for this thread. i'm not sure if i've accepted anything about myself, yet...and i'm 38 yrs. old. i try, but it seems like when i'm making progress someone or something comes along and knocks it down, leaving me back at square one, again. i'm african american and i grew up in a family that not only was emotionally abusive, but also physically and sexually....they saw me as too fat, skin too dark and i don't act black enough blah blah blah blah...... not anything about me was ever good or ok with anybody...even in friendships and romantic relationships. i was always too this, too that, not enough this or not enough that...always some bullshit like that...now, that i'm 38 and tired, the only solution i think i have to stay out of these toxic and abusive relationships is to just stay away from people all together....i don't befriend or talk to anyone, really in real life, unless i have to...online i do, because it's a lot safer, physically.....



I hope you can see past all of the negative influences and accept the beautiful woman that you are. You are uniquely you and that is a wonderful thing. I struggle with not being enough. Lately, I am trying to be enough for me and that will be enough. :happy:


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## calauria (Jan 13, 2010)

steely said:


> I hope you can see past all of the negative influences and accept the beautiful woman that you are. You are uniquely you and that is a wonderful thing. I struggle with not being enough. Lately, I am trying to be enough for me and that will be enough. :happy:



Thank you very much for the encouragment. Those are my words to live by now, "Being enough for myself.":happy:


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## archivaltype (Jan 15, 2010)

littlefairywren said:


> I agree with you Katherine. But I have only ever found support as a fat woman here on Dims. If I have ever shown support for a fat woman IRL it almost never goes well. It is lovely to think that there is some kind of camaraderie between fat women or fat people in general, but it rarely occurs.



Same! None of my fat friends are comfortable that way, so it's constant self-hatred. It's really sad. 

As far the original question is concerned...yes, I do. I wouldn't change my body if I could. It's sensual, dynamic, and surprising, warm, forgiving, and soft. I think it's beautiful just like it is. :happy: I'm in pretty darn good shape (I walk at least 40 minutes each day because I don't drive), too, which helps. 

I was blessed when I was young. My family is pretty much awesome and no one's really ever ragged on me about my weight. I never really had any problems in school either. The only time I ever got any trouble was when I stood up for a friend and got called a name, but I was old enough to know the dish. So the whole fat hating thing is sort of new to me, comparatively. I know that has helped me, my self esteem, and even the way I view other's bodies.
I feel so bad for everyone who's had terrible experiences with it and I applaud you all for being so strong. :bow:


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## PeacefulGem (Jan 22, 2010)

BeautifulPoeticDisaster said:


> ...being fat does not make me happy, rather I can be happy and fat at the same time.
> 
> So I guess my answer is no. I don't love it, but I don't hate it either...it just IS.



_*That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I was happy with myself when I was heavier and, in my own way, I tried to get the size acceptance message out- love yourself and others at any size.*_


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## LillyBBBW (Feb 17, 2010)

For the past 10 years give or take I have not had access to television at all. It wasn't a protest or anything, I just don't have time to watch it so it seemed silly to pay for cable. Just in time for Superbowl Sunday I had cable installed and have been getting reacquainted with tv. Recently I've had a chance to review that show _Ruby_. Before that I watched part of a documentary about a 17 year old 400 pound boy about the undergo weight loss surgery. Those shows got me so depressed. Fat is shown in such a negative light. I felt ugly, freakish, unworthy, mentally imbalanced. I must be some kind of freak to feel like I'm ok or to think that fat is somehow attractive. I just wanted to lie down somewhere and never get up.

I've been stewing over this by myself for a few days. Those shows and other documentaries of their ilk are deliberately styled to present fat people in the most negative light possible. I've seen other forms of art and media with fat people featured, where the fat isn't necessarily the focal point at all, and came away seeing boundless energy and beauty independent of size. Just seeing a fat person doing something positive... it was silently refreshing. Unfortunatley in this culture we live in, positive reinforcement is necessary or a great lot of us would wither and die. Being a musician I've wanted very much to be representive of something positive in the same way I've been inspired and encouraged by other fat artists and professionals I've seen along the way. As a young person growing up it showed me, "Yes! I belong in this world too." To this day though I still have to stand up to negative influences out to convince me of how awful I really am and that I'm simply deluding myself by living my life as though there is nothing amiss. I'm not supposed to feel good about myself and sometimes it's hard to when it dawns on me that there are people who will hold a dim view of me until I can show myself exceptional in some way. And even then it's not enough.


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## TheKayDee83 (Feb 23, 2010)

It's hard to even look at myself in the mirror most day, much less look at myself and say something positive other then something along the lines of "I have pretty eyes" or " I Love my hair". I do agree with some of the posts about how everyone, no matter what their size, has to come to terms with their looks. But with the smaller people it seems easier, at least from my perspective, for them because more times then not they don't have people give them dirty looks or laugh at them or say some smug comment about their skinny bodies. As a big girl, even though I do my best to ignore it or pretend not to see the looks or hear the comments, it is hard for me. It is a daily struggle for me. I honestly ask like this confident person who could care less what others think, then I go home and cry myself to sleep. I am trying now, through this forum and with the help of a friend, trying to except myself for who I am. Because I really do think that ultimately that we can never change anything about ourselves until be first be comfortable with what we already have. I know medically it would be beneficial, of course, to be a little smaller. I too have high blood pressure and diabetes runs in the family so there is a high chance of that for me. I just wish sometimes that the world would just switch up for a day. Show the people who walk around all smug because they are one of the pretty people and show then what it is like to be on the bad end of it. How would they feel if they got the stares and the rude comments and had all the struggles we do like the pain or discomfort or the hunt for clothes that fit and fit our bodies. I don't know, just a thought.

But I guess after all that rambling (sorry if I kept going or if it didn't make sense) my answer would be no, I am not happy with it. But I am trying to make an honest effort to except what I have.


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## the hanging belly (Feb 24, 2010)

With me, I always loved being fat. If there were no health risks, I'd ideally like to get to 500lbs. So I guess that does mean I love being fat, but I'm just afraid of the implications it may have later in life, because I'm still pretty young. Sometimes I wonder whether I love being fat, or whether I just love bellies. I despise my thighs which are huge, but if I could just drain my thighs of fat and somehow stick it all back into my belly, I'd be happy. I always loved not being able to fit into clothes, overhanging them, and sexually I love it when my boyfriend pays attention to my belly. I guess most of my fat ambitions revolve around the belly, I'm just not sure how practical it all is. I also used to love it when people told me how fat I was getting while I was gaining, and thats something I actually miss hearing now I've lost quite a bit of weight. I do think I was born to be huge, but my mind thinks there may be more important things.


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## Redhotphatgirl (Feb 27, 2010)

Yes I do love being me and I am a very fat girl. I like most of me all the time and some of me part of the time. If i could buy like knee reinforcements and back reinforcements I would be happier but yeah I truly from the bottom of my heart like being a fat girl.


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## Jasminium (Feb 27, 2010)

Growing up I was always too something: too tall, too fat, too dark. As Ive gotten older I finally began to not think of these attributes as flaws, but simply what makes me unique. Its not easy by any means living as a fat woman, but I wouldnt want to lose weight or alter my body at all. I feel that trying to change my weight would be no different than slathering my skin in lightening cream or shortening my femurs. It would just be a lie. Im not sure that Id say I love my body from the bottom of my heart yet, but I wouldn't change a thing.


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## calauria (Mar 1, 2010)

Jasminium said:


> *Growing up I was always too something: too tall, too fat, too dark.* As Ive gotten older I finally began to not think of these attributes as flaws, but simply what makes me unique. Its not easy by any means living as a fat woman, but I wouldnt want to lose weight or alter my body at all. I feel that trying to change my weight would be no different than slathering my skin in lightening cream or shortening my femurs. It would just be a lie. Im not sure that Id say I love my body from the bottom of my heart yet, but I wouldn't change a thing.



I think we share some of the same experiences...


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## Sensualbbwcurves (Mar 2, 2010)

Do I love it from the bottom of my heart...honestly no. However there was a time, I did accept it, but then I got into a relationship with someone that treated me horrible and called me horrific names. Now I am @ a place where I want to accept my body and realize that my fat is just one of the things that makes me the beautiful human being, I am. However, I admit that I pretend to be much happier than what I am..honestly who wants to be around someone who complains all the time..I'm fat whoa me! Just ridiculous and I get that a lot from my relatives who are fat, so I decide to go the other path...I'm Beauti (my name) I'm fat...and I am here!!


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## msbard90 (Mar 2, 2010)

I can honestly say that I love being a fat girl in my heart and soul. The part I don't love is the rejection from those whom I thought loved me. The amount of excuses I have given about my weight are plenty and unimaginable, even bizarre. I don't want to give excuses, it would be exhilarating to stand on top of a building (cliche i know.... forgive me) and scream on the top of my lungs that I love the way I look. I wish I had the audacity, the willpower to vocalize how I feel about myself. I'm nineteen, I'm insecure, I'm still young. I desire to have the self esteem I see others, especially people on dims, have. I love being a fat girl, and I wish others would be able to know and accept it too.


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## verucassault (Mar 5, 2010)

i dont really see myself as only a fat girl, or that isnt the very first thing i think of when i think of myself

i do from the bottom of my heart love my life and i love being me, so i suppose i love being fat girl because that is just one small aspect of who i am.

then there are days where i hate everything about my life, its usually a rough day or long day or when something i really want doesnt go my way or when something bad happens.

i think i am pretty awesome, haha, i like the way i look, what i dont enjoy is not being as fit as i used to because i dislike the extra effort it takes me to walk or run or go up stairs. but regardless of my size, i am pretty pleased with myself and the woman i have become. i have alot to be proud of and even more to be thankful for


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## Tau (Mar 5, 2010)

I saw one of my aunts last weekend. She's not one of my favourite people in the world but I've grown to not mind her. As a child people who are mean to you are the devil, whereas adult perspective has shown me that many of them are that way cos their lives suck - and she's one of those so I no longer want to stick a screw driver in her eye LOL! Nway, waffle short, she says to me "OMG you've gotten all black again. You really need to stay out of the sun - a complexion that dark is just ugly. You're much prettier when you're lighter" D'you know, a year ago, two years ago, that comment would have sent me into a rage. That day I laughed and laughed. I said to her: "You're scared to talk about my fat so now you're focusing on my BLACK skin which I share with you?? Really Aunty???" Then I hugged her and said goodbye. I had an epiphany that day. It really, really does not matter what version of ugly people think you are. There is always going to be somebody who thinks you could do something better, who's daughter,sister,niece,wife is just so much hotter than you and who believes that this fact should be something you worry about. Also, acceptance shouldnt be about how pretty and made up and thin and sleek haired or fair skinned you look on a particular day. Its my right to be treated with respect and I'm done asking for it, even when I'm looking dumpy and frumpy and whatever version of ugly the world's decided to hate on that day. When people try to take your self love from you don't be afraid to take it back, especially when their excuses for their atrocious behaviour is that you arent pretty. I don't think this made sense - I'm on a bit of a chocolate high  Nway, rant over! Power to all the fatties!


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Mar 5, 2010)

Tau said:


> I saw one of my aunts last weekend. She's not one of my favourite people in the world but I've grown to not mind her. As a child people who are mean to you are the devil, whereas adult perspective has shown me that many of them are that way cos their lives suck - and she's one of those so I no longer want to stick a screw driver in her eye LOL! Nway, waffle short, she says to me "OMG you've gotten all black again. You really need to stay out of the sun - a complexion that dark is just ugly. You're much prettier when you're lighter" D'you know, a year ago, two years ago, that comment would have sent me into a rage. That day I laughed and laughed. I said to her: "You're scared to talk about my fat so now you're focusing on my BLACK skin which I share with you?? Really Aunty???" Then I hugged her and said goodbye. I had an epiphany that day. It really, really does not matter what version of ugly people think you are. There is always going to be somebody who thinks you could do something better, who's daughter,sister,niece,wife is just so much hotter than you and who believes that this fact should be something you worry about. Also, acceptance shouldnt be about how pretty and made up and thin and sleek haired or fair skinned you look on a particular day. Its my right to be treated with respect and I'm done asking for it, even when I'm looking dumpy and frumpy and whatever version of ugly the world's decided to hate on that day. When people try to take your self love from you don't be afraid to take it back, especially when their excuses for their atrocious behaviour is that you arent pretty. I don't think this made sense - I'm on a bit of a chocolate high  Nway, rant over! Power to all the fatties!



I approve this post...

YOU'RE MY GIRL TAU!!!! :bow:


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## msbard90 (Mar 8, 2010)

Tau said:


> I saw one of my aunts last weekend. She's not one of my favourite people in the world but I've grown to not mind her. As a child people who are mean to you are the devil, whereas adult perspective has shown me that many of them are that way cos their lives suck - and she's one of those so I no longer want to stick a screw driver in her eye LOL! Nway, waffle short, she says to me "OMG you've gotten all black again. You really need to stay out of the sun - a complexion that dark is just ugly. You're much prettier when you're lighter" D'you know, a year ago, two years ago, that comment would have sent me into a rage. That day I laughed and laughed. I said to her: "You're scared to talk about my fat so now you're focusing on my BLACK skin which I share with you?? Really Aunty???" Then I hugged her and said goodbye. I had an epiphany that day. It really, really does not matter what version of ugly people think you are. There is always going to be somebody who thinks you could do something better, who's daughter,sister,niece,wife is just so much hotter than you and who believes that this fact should be something you worry about. Also, acceptance shouldnt be about how pretty and made up and thin and sleek haired or fair skinned you look on a particular day. Its my right to be treated with respect and I'm done asking for it, even when I'm looking dumpy and frumpy and whatever version of ugly the world's decided to hate on that day. When people try to take your self love from you don't be afraid to take it back, especially when their excuses for their atrocious behaviour is that you arent pretty. I don't think this made sense - I'm on a bit of a chocolate high  Nway, rant over! Power to all the fatties!



So true lol! When my family wants to talk about my weight, but not call me "fat", they compare me to my aunt Susan, who was also fat. They say, oh you look so much like her!!!!!


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## verucassault (Mar 9, 2010)

jamaicans, my family, have no filter. usually when people see me, i hear "lawd jeezus gyal, ah so big youa get?" and then i get a huge warm hug. it really isn't meant to be mean, its just like an observation. they have a right to say whatever they want because they are family. LOL

when they see people they havent seen in a long time, they ask, why they arent dead yet. ("you nah drop dead yet?" ) its a cultural thing. and if you dont have a tough skin, you would cry when being greeted by people. i used to get bent out of shape about it, when i wasnt comfortable with my size and didnt really understand the rules of the game

family is just...special.


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## LovelyLiz (Mar 9, 2010)

verucassault said:


> jamaicans, my family, have no filter. usually when people see me, i hear "lawd jeezus gyal, ah so big youa get?" and then i get a huge warm hug. it really isn't meant to be mean, its just like an observation. they have a right to say whatever they want because they are family. LOL
> 
> when they see people they havent seen in a long time, they ask, why they arent dead yet. ("you nah drop dead yet?" ) its a cultural thing. and if you dont have a tough skin, you would cry when being greeted by people. i used to get bent out of shape about it, when i wasnt comfortable with my size and didnt really understand the rules of the game
> 
> family is just...special.



So true. 

I was studying in Jamaica (Kingston) for almost a month when I was getting my masters, and remember this aspect of the culture very well... Whenever we'd go out to the market (or anywhere) people would refer to me as fatty and yell it out to get my attention. I realized it wasn't intended to be hurtful, but mostly just observational, but it made me want to turn invisible every day when we went out.

That was one month where I definitely definitely did not love being a fat girl.


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## Jes (Mar 9, 2010)

mcbeth said:


> people would refer to me as fatty and yell it out to get my attention. I realized it wasn't intended to be hurtful, but mostly just observational, but it made me want to turn invisible every day when we went out.
> 
> .



oh, lord.... Yeah... I don't know that I would've done well with this at all. I had to sit and think about it when I first read it. I think part of the issue is simply being called out, right? Singled out? In my neighborhood I get 'blondie' a lot (which I never got in the Midwest). And it always feels a bit awkward, even though it's just descriptive. Still, 'fatty' would be more difficult still...


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## LovelyLiz (Mar 9, 2010)

Jes said:


> oh, lord.... Yeah... I don't know that I would've done well with this at all. I had to sit and think about it when I first read it. I think part of the issue is simply being called out, right? Singled out? In my neighborhood I get 'blondie' a lot (which I never got in the Midwest). And it always feels a bit awkward, even though it's just descriptive. Still, 'fatty' would be more difficult still...



Yeah, just being called out is a huge part of it. In a way I appreciated the experience because it put me in touch (in a tiny, very finite way) with people in my own context who don't have the luxury of "blending in" on a daily basis when they're out and about. But I definitely prefer the option of being anonymous and unnoticed when I choose to be, and only standing out when I intentionally want to. At the same time I realize that depending on the context and what is more common and also what traits are stigmatized, many people don't have that same luxury.


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## msbard90 (Mar 9, 2010)

mcbeth said:


> Yeah, just being called out is a huge part of it. In a way I appreciated the experience because it put me in touch (in a tiny, very finite way) with people in my own context who don't have the luxury of "blending in" on a daily basis when they're out and about. But I definitely prefer the option of being anonymous and unnoticed when I choose to be, and only standing out when I intentionally want to. At the same time I realize that depending on the context and what is more common and also what traits are stigmatized, many people don't have that same luxury.



Not only that, but when people call others "fatty!" its not just observational, its rude. Its as rude as calling a little person "hey midget!". I think that it important to be aware of others and remember to be respectful and sensitive to all... _oh god look at me I'm sounding so corny..... _


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## Your Plump Princess (Mar 10, 2010)

Not as fat as I am, no. 
But I would not be happy being a thin person.

I think I would be extremely happy at 250lbs 
I don't like the health set-backs my weight causes me, though.
It's nothing aesthetic.


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## *Ravenous* (Mar 10, 2010)

calauria said:


> first of all i would like to say thank you for this thread. i'm not sure if i've accepted anything about myself, yet...and i'm 38 yrs. old. i try, but it seems like when i'm making progress someone or something comes along and knocks it down, leaving me back at square one, again. i'm african american and i grew up in a family that not only was emotionally abusive, but also physically and sexually....they saw me as too fat, skin too dark and i don't act black enough blah blah blah blah...... not anything about me was ever good or ok with anybody...even in friendships and romantic relationships. i was always too this, too that, not enough this or not enough that...always some bullshit like that...now, that i'm 38 and tired, the only solution i think i have to stay out of these toxic and abusive relationships is to just stay away from people all together....i don't befriend or talk to anyone, really in real life, unless i have to...online i do, because it's a lot safer, physically.....



i can feel you on this...i had the same problem growing up not with family really cause my family doesnt even get along with one another but just people in general recently i went through a hermit phase i just shut down from the outside world and my world only consisted of me and my son...


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## bobbleheaddoll (Mar 10, 2010)

yep...still lovin it. woo! chunky chix rule!


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## Micara (Mar 11, 2010)

Hmm. I really just love being me. I've always considered myself fat, my whole life- and looking back, I don't really think that I was. But in my mind I was. If someone could wave a magic wand and make me skinny, I'd probably say go for it. I think I would like that experience. However, if I were skinny, I don't think that I would be the same person I am today. I'm kind of afraid of what I would actually be. But I am happy enough with the way that I am that I'm not planning to change anything. Does that make sense?


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## phoenix92901 (Mar 13, 2010)

I love how I look and how much my man appreciates my curves. However, I don't love how I feel after climbing two flights of stairs, the ache in my knees or the fact that my kitchen counter resembles a small pharmacy because of my weight. *sigh*


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## OhLaLaSoSexy (Mar 13, 2010)

I like being "thick". I wouldnt mind losing a few pounds though. Only because my back is killing me! eek! I just want to find that right weight. chubby but can move around good;]


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## mollywogger (Mar 14, 2010)

no.

i would prefer to be slimmer. I think everyday living would be so much easier without the added weight. And the health aspect, as I get older I worry more about.


but i am trying to be happy with where i am now!


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## Fallenangel2904 (Mar 17, 2010)

I like my curves. I like being a big girl- but think health wise I would like to drop a few pounds. There is definitly such a thing as being healthy and fat. I used to be there, wouldn't mind getting there again for mobility issues. But do I ever want to be skinny? No. There was a point in my life where that was all I wanted more then anything and I look back now and I shake my head. It was like I thought being thin would solve all the problems in my life and somehow every problem I was experiencing would be made better if I could only be thin. I've come a LONG way from that thinking and really see now that it was in my head. I enjoy being thick and wouldn't want to change that. Just want to be able to get around a bit better, but over all yes I am fat and happy!


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## succubus_dxb (Mar 18, 2010)

Micara said:


> Hmm. I really just love being me. I've always considered myself fat, my whole life- and looking back, I don't really think that I was. But in my mind I was. If someone could wave a magic wand and make me skinny, I'd probably say go for it. I think I would like that experience. However, if I were skinny, I don't think that I would be the same person I am today. I'm kind of afraid of what I would actually be. But I am happy enough with the way that I am that I'm not planning to change anything. Does that make sense?



this. EXACTLY this


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## katherine22 (Mar 24, 2010)

For the first time in my life I am involved with a man who truly loves my body, and his love has contributed to my own appreciation. My body is perfect and I enjoy being the adorable fat woman that I am.


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## iwasneveranormalgirl (Mar 27, 2010)

Micara said:


> Hmm. I really just love being me. I've always considered myself fat, my whole life- and looking back, I don't really think that I was. But in my mind I was. If someone could wave a magic wand and make me skinny, I'd probably say go for it. I think I would like that experience. However, if I were skinny, I don't think that I would be the same person I am today. I'm kind of afraid of what I would actually be. But I am happy enough with the way that I am that I'm not planning to change anything. Does that make sense?



Perfect sense!  I really love this and I feel the exact same way!


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## ChickletsBBW (Apr 3, 2010)

Like someone else said.. this is the body I have.. so.. I deal with it, however, I wish other people could accept me for who I am. 

I've lost 2 good friends (or so I thought they were) to gastric bypass.
Meaning, they lost weight and they chose not to have me as a friend anymore. My feelings were very hurt simply because I was fat and now they weren't. 

They made such horrible comments about 'big' and 'fat' people and I even made comments as far as saying they used to be big and fat too but their whole concept of being a big girl was completely changed. All they could think about was how skinny they were and how much more weight they could lose to be skinnier and 'prettier'

I'm glad that you all seem to live in places that have men that actually like larger women. 

Sadly, I do not. I've tried everything from trying to meet men here in my town to the dimensions match, to craigslist and other bbw dating sites with no luck. I dont even know where to go anymore to meet men. I'm 33 and I'm not into the bar/club scene. I do prefer guys right at my age or younger but of course the younger guys only want booty and nothing long-term. I too have that biological clock ticking but I've tried really hard to convince myself that its ok that I don't have kids and I most likely wont get married. 
It sucks because I miss having a special man in my life but obviously I survive, but I still have that empty feeling because I long for someone to share my life and experiences with. 

Perhaps I'm too big? Even my best friend made a comment about being 'too big' and maybe its why I cant 'get' a man... i was so hurt but didn't say anything negative to her, that's not how I was raised... friends are supposed to be supportive right?? sheesh lol I love who I am as a person but still hope for a man that can love me inside and out.. i know.. how cliche... lol

Okay.. off my rant..


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## TallFatSue (Apr 3, 2010)

ChickletsBBW said:


> I've lost 2 good friends (or so I thought they were) to gastric bypass.
> Meaning, they lost weight and they chose not to have me as a friend anymore. My feelings were very hurt simply because I was fat and now they weren't.


Grrrrr. This has happened to me too. One was a skinny little cheerleader bitch who used to torment me in high school. The next time I saw her at a class reunion 10 years ago, she was well over 300lb. She apologized for being mean to me and said her mother starved her to be thin and popular in high school, so she lashed out at me. Like a fool, I let bygones be bygones, and she wanted to be my pal, even though we had little in common. In retrospect, she was as shallow as ever, so methinx she wanted to pal around me because I was even fatter, so she'd feel better about herself, so she could shop for clothes with me, etc. But her husband was none too pleased she was so fat, and her friends and relatives harped about it too. After about 5 years she decided to have WLS, she tried to persuade me too, and she couldn't understand why I politely but firmly declined. As she lost weight, she became less and less interested in being my friend. I should have seen that coming, but that's what I get for trying to see the good in everyone. I've bumped into her a few times since then, and she hardly gives me the time of day. That hurts. I'm upset with her for using me, and upset with myself for falling for it. 

Even so, I still love being a fat girl. It's been far more good than bad, and thankfully this incident is one of the few exceptions.


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## mel (Apr 4, 2010)

I have to say no. I do like being curvy but alot of things would be easier if I was smaller. As I get older, the weight makes more things hurt..and may be one of the causes of a medical issue I am dealing with. 

I am happy though to be part of a community who embraces themselves and supports one another


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## gangstadawg (Apr 7, 2010)

ChickletsBBW said:


> Like someone else said.. this is the body I have.. so.. I deal with it, however, I wish other people could accept me for who I am.
> 
> I've lost 2 good friends (or so I thought they were) to gastric bypass.
> Meaning, they lost weight and they chose not to have me as a friend anymore. My feelings were very hurt simply because I was fat and now they weren't.
> ...



you ever try ssbbwsingles website? its pretty good.


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 7, 2010)

gangstadawg said:


> you ever try ssbbwsingles website? its pretty good.



I've been there a while and haven't had much luck.


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## gangstadawg (Apr 7, 2010)

LillyBBBW said:


> I've been there a while and haven't had much luck.



its good but they need to advertise more. really get the word out about there site.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Apr 8, 2010)

Main problem I have had with _any_ exclusive BBW site is that there aren't many locals.


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## gangstadawg (Apr 9, 2010)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> Main problem I have had with _any_ exclusive BBW site is that there aren't many locals.



that i agree. but ssbbwsingles unlike most of the other bbw dating sites is FREE! as in you dont have to pay in order to contact somebody on the site that you like. i dont even know another bbw dating site that does that. but like i said they need to advertise more because most of the people that are on it are people that accidently discover it or some one mentioned it to them. if they would advertise more then there would be more local people.


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## LillyBBBW (Apr 9, 2010)

gangstadawg said:


> that i agree. but ssbbwsingles unlike most of the other bbw dating sites is FREE! as in you dont have to pay in order to contact somebody on the site that you like. i dont even know another bbw dating site that does that. but like i said they need to advertise more because most of the people that are on it are people that accidently discover it or some one mentioned it to them. if they would advertise more then there would be more local people.



I thought I might like that in a way. The type of person most likely to be on that site would be someobody who deliberately did a search on SSBBW, therefore the subject of size would be a given and self explanatory. Unfortunately I've discovered that this is kind of true. Most of the guys who've contacted me did get there by doing a search on ssbbw and are just folks out for a good time or to collect more pictures. Not really someone I'd date. Not saying everyone is like that. Just the ones that seem interested in me.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Apr 10, 2010)

gangstadawg said:


> that i agree. but ssbbwsingles unlike most of the other bbw dating sites is FREE! as in you dont have to pay in order to contact somebody on the site that you like. i dont even know another bbw dating site that does that. but like i said they need to advertise more because most of the people that are on it are people that accidently discover it or some one mentioned it to them. if they would advertise more then there would be more local people.



I spent a year and a half on some of the "free sites"....they proved to be boring as hell and a waste of time. I found a free site that is not just for fatties but "people in general" that was free....and found my current bf. I also had more interesting offers from people answering a CL ad. No baloney. Craigslist.....



LillyBBBW said:


> I thought I might like that in a way. The type of person most likely to be on that site would be someobody who deliberately did a search on SSBBW, therefore the subject of size would be a given and self explanatory. Unfortunately I've discovered that this is kind of true. Most of the guys who've contacted me did get there by doing a search on ssbbw *and are just folks out for a good time or to collect more pictures*. Not really someone I'd date. Not saying everyone is like that. Just the ones that seem interested in me.



I had that, too....and I'm not even SS. Those "fat girl picture collectors" that seem willing to HARASS a woman for pictures. Hells bells....fat women pictures are all over the damn net......so I take it they are just cheap and don't want to pay for them. 
Also, seems likes some men don't sign up for dating sites to actually DATE a woman....but just get the pictures, or cam time or dirty talk. I tend to wonder if those guys are closeted or married.


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## gangstadawg (Apr 10, 2010)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> I spent a year and a half on some of the "free sites"....they proved to be boring as hell and a waste of time. I found a free site that is not just for fatties but "people in general" that was free....and found my current bf. I also had more interesting offers from people answering a CL ad. No baloney. Craigslist.....



craigslist i personally leave alone for dating.


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## Juice (Apr 11, 2010)

From the bottom of my heart I don't mind being big, just not this big. Unlike many bbws, who I admire a lot, I am not still 100% confident with my body. It's not the size of it or the fact that I am fat but rather the fact that I feel different or minority, or that I have to explain or apologize. This is something that limits my everyday life. It's perhaps all down to society or your friends and family but I am still not comfortable with that. For example, if my friends want to go out to a restaurant that I know for sure has narrow chairs, I will kindly decline finding an excuse. The same with being a passenger of a car that seems small (not to mention the seatbelt scare) or going to the cinema. I also hate the way people stare (or laugh) at me sometimes ('oh my god what is she eating?'). And I don't like the fact that at my size I can't wear the clothes I want. Even on ebay, there is a limited supply of size 36 pants. Above all I feel I am not as healthy as I should be. I feel tired after walking just for a few minutes. I would be very happy in the 250-300 zone but the bigger I get the more difficult I find it to lose.


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