# What degree do you have?



## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

I've got one semester left in my Business Management degree, and I was wondering what everyone else has as far as degrees, certifications, and diplomas go? Do we have any doctorates in the house? Masters? Law? MBA?
What degree are you working on? What degree would you like to work on? 

Also what got you there? What was your motivation? What ambition drove you forward? And how hard was it to get there? Were there any bumps in the road? Or was it relatively smooth sailing?


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## tink977 (Apr 26, 2007)

I have my degree in elementary education with a minor in music performance. I work for an insurance company...lol.


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## bigplaidpants (Apr 26, 2007)

Hey Zane. One the one hand, questions like this can be fun. But, they can also look like bragging. I don't want to make a big deal out of something that isn't for people, but I'm sensitive to the shadow of "elitism" that education casts over those who are brilliant, gifted, extremely intelligent, and knowledgeable in a variety of fields....but without a degree. 

With that disclaimer:

I have a BA in Psychology, a Masters in Theological Studies, and am working on a PhD in Theology, Ethics, and Society.

I know of at least one or two other doctorates "in here" at Dim. I know of at least a few other grad students. And, I'm sure we have folk like I run into all the time who are "Masters happy" (i.e. with multiple Masters  )

Good luck with the Business Mgmt, dawd.


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## tink977 (Apr 26, 2007)

You are very right about this. There are plenty of people with degrees that probably shouldn't have them and didn't deserve to get them and there are plenty of VERY brilliant people in this world that barely got any education at all.


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## Jes (Apr 26, 2007)

I have a PhD in SEXAY.

Sadly, that's not employable (save for the Jes All Nude Revue), so I also have a degree in Medieval History (minor in Medieval Italian, French and English--yeah, I know, don't laugh! I loved it!), a Masters of Science in Library and Information Science, a Masters of Liberal Arts (specialization: Gender and Public culture--which I once typed as Gender and PUBIC culture, which worked just as well frankly), a Certificate in Womens' Studies, and I'm now in an MPHil (Masters of Philosophy) program.

It is a crazy hodge-podge of things. IN terms of difficulty and what it was like...I think I would have preferred to take a year off between my BA and MS. I had reasons for going straight through, but with a Tech degree, you really need to be employed ASAP (even if you could afford not to be) b/c you're not competitive if you sit around too long, while new grads are streaming out of schools. Therefore, the only time off I might've had would have been before I started the program. 

I got my 2nd masters while working full time. I did it b/c I wasn't feeling socialized or challenged at my job and, because it was free free free (I work at a University). I can't stress this enough--for anyone who wants to keep academia/education open as an option, consider a job, any job, at a university. You may never use the benefit, but you may, and you'll REALLY appreciate it. Plus, your kids can use it! (my school costs over 40,000/year for undergrads, but employees, even clerks, get free tuition for dependents!). It can be great to take a class whenever you have an interest--literature. Technology. Pottery! It's a way to stay invested in your own life. And it's often free, as I've said 5 times. 

My MPhil program is, I hope, a way to keep me motivated and in touch with a network of helpful people, while I figure out if this book idea I have (NON fiction) is something. I'm terrified of doing it, as everyone in the Clubhouse knows, so I figure the support will help. 

That said, I'm in awe of those in doctoral programs. I guess I have a collection of Masters degrees going, but I don't know that I ever felt I could take the plunge. My MS is a terminal degree, so there was no real intention of going on (and the PhD progs in my field can be INSANELY hard to get into and succeed in, sadly--which isn't to say most are, but mine seems even weirder) and I don't think I'd want a PhD in my field. My dream was a History PhD, but again, you can't really go on to get that after you have a Tech degree, b/c you're tech skills aren't marketable if you let them sit. I did things in reverse order, probably b/c I was too chicken shit (and wanted to be sure of a JOB) not to.

And there you have all things jes, warts included! 

Also? It's just a lot cheaper and easier to call yourself Dr. in correspondence and conversation, so that's generally what I do.

JES, BA, MS, LIS, MLA, MSU, ADL

(the MSU ADL is the way my pals and I say: Makin' Shit Up, All Day Long)


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## LJ Rock (Apr 26, 2007)

bigplaidpants said:


> Hey Zane. One the one hand, questions like this can be fun. But, they can also look like bragging. I don't want to make a big deal out of something that isn't for people, but I'm sensitive to the shadow of "elitism" that education casts over those who are brilliant, gifted, extremely intelligent, and knowledgeable in a variety of fields....but without a degree.



It is a bit of a sensitive area. But it is fun to share, and I am not even trying to be a braggar... I do have a college degree, one that I worked pretty hard for (and almost didn't make it!) I have a Bachelor of Music degree. It was really important to my parents that I get some kind of degree once I finished high school, and since music was really the only thing I was interested in, I went for it. It was hard, because I have never been big into acedemics (even though I did graduate with honors from high school.) But yeah, I had a tough time assimilating into college life, and I just _barely_ finished! (A long story.) 

I might also point out that many friends of mine who do not have degrees are way *smarter* than me, and also have much better paying jobs than I do! I think that education is important, but education alone won't take you as far in life as having smarts, experience and some common sense. Also, the more I learn the more I understand that in nearly all areas of life, an individual is only as strong as his or her networks (hence that famous saying, "It's not what you know, but who you know.")

Sometimes I contemplate going back to school to become an educator. If I do, it won't be for a while though.


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

bigplaidpants said:


> Hey Zane. One the one hand, questions like this can be fun. But, they can also look like bragging. I don't want to make a big deal out of something that isn't for people, but I'm sensitive to the shadow of "elitism" that education casts over those who are brilliant, gifted, extremely intelligent, and knowledgeable in a variety of fields....but without a degree.
> 
> With that disclaimer:
> 
> ...



Well, see, here's the thing, I'm wondering, particularly because I'm so freakin' nervous about having wasted my time. I mean, I've spent 5.5 years in college, and I honestly don't know if I've brought anything out of that experience. I just suppose I want to see what other people got degrees in, and what they're doing with them.  

And even if you don't have a degree, I'm not trying to bash anyone...I failed out of college once already, screwed up numerous times, and still, despite finally settling on a major, don't know what I'm doing, what my ambitions are, or what I want to motivate my life. I suppose I just want to see what everyone else is doing so I don't feel so lost.  

Plus it is fun to see the numerous kinds of degrees and certifications there are out there.  

So, no, I have, and did not have any intention of demeaning anyone. And if it does...I'm sorry if you feel that way 

My pastor has a doctorate in the same area...I'm not sure if it is exactly the same, but I think it might be. I hope your hard work pays off, I know a couple professors and friends working on their doctorates...and I don't see hide nor hair of them for months on end. 

Are you planning on being a professor? Or in research? Mind if I ask your motivations and ambitions when going for your PhD?

And thanks...I hope I don't screw up on my final two semesters here.


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

Jes said:


> I have a PhD in SEXAY.
> 
> Sadly, that's not employable (save for the Jes All Nude Revue), so I also have a degree in Medieval History (minor in Medieval Italian, French and English--yeah, I know, don't laugh! I loved it!), a Masters of Science in Library and Information Science, a Masters of Liberal Arts (specialization: Gender and Public culture--which I once typed as Gender and PUBIC culture, which worked just as well frankly), a Certificate in Womens' Studies, and I'm now in an MPHil (Masters of Philosophy) program.
> 
> ...



Actually, Medieval History fascinates me. My sister is a history major, and she loves it. I probably am more into historical accuracy in fiction, folk-lore, and mythos than actual history, but I still enjoy it. I'm glad there is someone else out there who loves history of the medieval kind.

I would definitely love to work at a university...my pastor/professor (he is the dean of the Religious studies department), has three PhDs from working at the college. That is awesome that you're continually learning 

Anyway, hope your doing well, and I definitely think you should pursue your book idea  Maybe it'll become a text book for professors across the USA one day. Who knows.

Good luck


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## Violet_Beauregard (Apr 26, 2007)

Well, I'll throw my hat in here. About 17 years ago, I was studying for an Associates Degree in Executive Secretarial Studies. Then I started working full-time and going to school in the evenings. I began running into the problem of class availability, so I wasn't able to finish. About 2 years ago, I decided to go back and finish. Low and behold, the program no longer exists, so I started in something different. After a year, it wasn't my cup-of-tea, so I switched to an online school, in the program I really want. I am studying for an Associates Degree in Office Administration, then that will apply to the next part, which will be a Bachelor's in Business Administration. I love going to school online. The convenience is incredible, and it's much less expensive that my other school. The school I attend online is called Indiana Business College and they are fully accredited, so my degree will be legit!

I also have two professional certifications. I have the CPS, or Certified Professional Secretary designation, and I also have the CAP, or Certified Administrative Professional designation. They're sponsored by an organization called IAAP, or the International Association of Administrative Professionals. The two combined are a two-day test over economics, accounting, office systems and technology, and management. It's pretty extensive. I studied for a year before I took the test. Luckily I passed all 4 parts the first time, which is unusual. The American Council on Education has determined the two certifications combined to be worth 41 credit hours at participating colleges and universities. So in other words, if my school would accept the credits, it would be equivalent to an Associates Degree. (IF they would accept it...dammit....neither school I've attended will accept it.... grrr) I am also required to recertify every 5 years with continuing ed classes and CEU's. Lucky for me, the classes I'm taking for my degree right now, qualify for that, so recertification for me is relatively simple.

Let me add, that I've been working as an Office Manager for 22 years (at my current job) and a degree was not a requirement to GET the job or KEEP the job. My returning to school was for my own personal satisfaction, and to plan for the future, if I would ever need a degree. 

So, that's my story!


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

LJ Rock said:


> It is a bit of a sensitive area. But it is fun to share, and I am not even trying to be a braggar... I do have a college degree, one that I worked pretty hard for (and almost didn't make it!) I have a Bachelor of Music degree. It was really important to my parents that I get some kind of degree once I finished high school, and since music was really the only thing I was interested in, I went for it. It was hard, because I have never been big into acedemics (even though I did graduate with honors from high school.) But yeah, I had a tough time assimilating into college life, and I just _barely_ finished! (A long story.)
> 
> I might also point out that many friends of mine who do not have degrees are way *smarter* than me, and also have much better paying jobs than I do! I think that education is important, but education alone won't take you as far in life as having smarts, experience and some common sense. Also, the more I learn the more I understand that in nearly all areas of life, an individual is only as strong as his or her networks (hence that famous saying, "It's not what you know, but who you know.")
> 
> Sometimes I contemplate going back to school to become an educator. If I do, it won't be for a while though.



Most definitely, I have had a pretty hard time too with college...having screwed up once already and been lucky enough (with my parent's suppose), that I was able to get back into it.

I have numerous of friends who're smarter than I am who are in the work place, and didn't get their degree, some of whom didn't even graduate high school. One of my friends is just getting his college education, at 28, and is in his first year. He has an amazing life. But I most definitely understand the networking thing. Not having as adequate a network as some, I've found out how many opportunities are lost when someone doesn't have friends and connections to people. I missed out on two internships because of that.

Anyway, good luck, and take care


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## Theatrmuse/Kara (Apr 26, 2007)

I went back to school at age 36 and finished my Bachelors in Music (Music History and Performance) and then received my Masters in Fine Arts in Theatre Education (Voice and Speech Emphasis). (They SAY that an MFA is the terminal degree for Theatre however I know a couple of grad classmates that have gone on to get their Doctorate in Education---not for me!)

I now am faculty adjunct at Montreat College and teach Introduction to Art, Music and Theatre. I also perform in the Western Carolina area from time to time.:-0

I actually am using my degrees and have (what I consider) my dream teaching job! I know I am lucky, but I am always a "glass half full kind of gal!"
Hugs, Kara


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## LJ Rock (Apr 26, 2007)

ZainTheInsane said:


> But I most definitely understand the networking thing. Not having as adequate a network as some, I've found out how many opportunities are lost when someone doesn't have friends and connections to people. I missed out on two internships because of that.



And you know, I still say that's the biggest thing that I got out of going to college: the people that I met, the friendships and connections that I made. Most of the opportunities that I have been fortunate enough to have happened into came about as a result of knowing certain people, who are in way or another connected with people that I met in school. 

Now that I have been out of college for nearly a decade now (ay!) I have made a lot of other opportunities and established other networks for myself (including online communities) but it has all built off of the foundation I established for myself when I was a student. 

I like to think I've gotten a little bit smarter about my life and my career, and that I am a little more focused and motivated now that I am older. But it's all a learning process... and I think it's important to remember that learning doesn't end once you take off that cap and gown. Life is school, man. Sometimes we gotta just be smart enough to close our mouths, open our ears and take in a little bit of knowlege each day.


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

Violet_Beauregard said:


> Well, I'll throw my hat in here. About 17 years ago, I was studying for an Associates Degree in Executive Secretarial Studies. Then I started working full-time and going to school in the evenings. I began running into the problem of class availability, so I wasn't able to finish. About 2 years ago, I decided to go back and finish. Low and behold, the program no longer exists, so I started in something different. After a year, it wasn't my cup-of-tea, so I switched to an online school, in the program I really want. I am studying for an Associates Degree in Office Administration, then that will apply to the next part, which will be a Bachelor's in Business Administration. I love going to school online. The convenience is incredible, and it's much less expensive that my other school. The school I attend online is called Indiana Business College and they are fully accredited, so my degree will be legit!
> 
> I also have two professional certifications. I have the CPS, or Certified Professional Secretary designation, and I also have the CAP, or Certified Administrative Professional designation. They're sponsored by an organization called IAAP, or the International Association of Administrative Professionals. The two combined are a two-day test over economics, accounting, office systems and technology, and management. It's pretty extensive. I studied for a year before I took the test. Luckily I passed all 4 parts the first time, which is unusual. The American Council on Education has determined the two certifications combined to be worth 41 credit hours at participating colleges and universities. So in other words, if my school would accept the credits, it would be equivalent to an Associates Degree. (IF they would accept it...dammit....neither school I've attended will accept it.... grrr) I am also required to recertify every 5 years with continuing ed classes and CEU's. Lucky for me, the classes I'm taking for my degree right now, qualify for that, so recertification for me is relatively simple.
> 
> ...



I respect anyone with a CPS...I've been told it isn't fun to get. My mother used to have one, and she was frustrated with everything involving it. It seems like you faired much better with it 

I wish you luck in getting your BS degree. I never really understood what is the technical difference between a degree in Business Administration, and a degree in Business Management...can anyone tell me? Or is it the same idea, just different names?

I like your story  I hope getting your degree is very satisfying  
I wish I could say the same for mine...but I honestly won't know until I am done with it...

Take care


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## Jane (Apr 26, 2007)

B.A. in Education, major English, minor Speech which I completed in 3 years. Yeah, graduate at 20 with a degree in Education and see how fast you get hired to teach high school.

These days, put me in a classroom and I turn into a hyperactive first grader. Honestly, it's unbearable for me and everyone around me.

Sigh.


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

Theatrmuse/Kara said:


> I went back to school at age 36 and finished my Bachelors in Music (Music History and Performance) and then received my Masters in Fine Arts in Theatre Education (Voice and Speech Emphasis). (They SAY that an MFA is the terminal degree for Theatre however I know a couple of grad classmates that have gone on to get their Doctorate in Education---not for me!)
> 
> I now am faculty adjunct at Montreat College and teach Introduction to Art, Music and Theatre. I also perform in the Western Carolina area from time to time.:-0
> 
> ...



My friend Sarah has something similar...I think...from what you described it sounds similar. She's having a rough time of it though. I'm glad you got a job you love. My grandfather keeps telling me that as long as you find a job you love waking up at 5am for everyday (he was a high school teacher), everything else will fall into place.

Adjuncts are AWESOME...everyone I've had has been amazing, and full of life. They are always amazing people. Round of applause for Adjuncts  

huggles  and take care


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

LJ Rock said:


> And you know, I still say that's the biggest thing that I got out of going to college: the people that I met, the friendships and connections that I made. Most of the opportunities that I have been fortunate enough to have happened into came about as a result of knowing certain people, who are in way or another connected with people that I met in school.
> 
> Now that I have been out of college for nearly a decade now (ay!) I have made a lot of other opportunities and established other networks for myself (including online communities) but it has all built off of the foundation I established for myself when I was a student.
> 
> I like to think I've gotten a little bit smarter about my life and my career, and that I am a little more focused and motivated now that I am older. But it's all a learning process... and I think it's important to remember that learning doesn't end once you take off that cap and gown.



I went to three different colleges, and I don't think there was one of them I didn't come out of with more friends than I went in with. It is amazing the plethora of people one meets at college. So many wonderful people.

I hope I develop some focus and motivation as I mature (hopefully).



> Life is school, man. Sometimes we gotta just be smart enough to close our mouths, open our ears and take in a little bit of knowlege each day.



Mind if I put this in my book of quotes and lessons? It is a little book to keep me motivated and to help me remember lessons and stuff people have told me that is important.  So, can I?


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

Jane said:


> B.A. in Education, major English, minor Speech which I completed in 3 years. Yeah, graduate at 20 with a degree in Education and see how fast you get hired to teach high school.
> 
> These days, put me in a classroom and I turn into a hyperactive first grader. Honestly, it's unbearable for me and everyone around me.
> 
> Sigh.



Awww, but those are the best kind of teachers


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## Paw Paw (Apr 26, 2007)

Well, I have a high school diploma. And a masters from the school of hard knocks.

I could have gone to school, but, I was never a conventional student. I slept through high school. Or showed up to get a weekly assignment list from understanding teachers. If it was something that I really could not understand, I sat in class for a couple of days. I took my midterms, but was usually exempt from the finals.

Anyway, that is me.

Peace,
2P.


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## Daknee (Apr 26, 2007)

tink977 said:


> You are very right about this. There are plenty of people with degrees that probably shouldn't have them and didn't deserve to get them and there are plenty of VERY brilliant people in this world that barely got any education at all.



I agree with you. Education is not what it's cracked up to be. It's nothing more than another business now. A big business at that. Unfortunatly the "world" what ever that means, says if you have a degree the better position or money you get. Don't get me wrong, I have a masters in counseling myself, there are many degreed people who are worthy of it, but on the other hand there are many worthy people without one that deserve good money and positons too. Many times they won't get the same job opportunities as those that paid for a piece of paper. 
From my experience getting my degree was more of a financial challenge than an educational one.


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## activistfatgirl (Apr 26, 2007)

I have a B.S. with a double major in Anthropology and Sociology and an almost completed minor in Political Science. I sorta gave up towards the end and graduated with EXACTLY enough credits.

The *BS* part is probably the most important part of that sentence.

I don't really use my degree specifically, however, I'm in the kind of work that ANY degree is helpful, just as long as you have it. 

As I've defaulted on my student loans and am achingly close to a 15% wage garnishment, I'm not convinced I have much pride about my degree. I'm more stressed out than ever, knowing I'm college educated with a degree that doesn't guarantee employment.

BPP, I think you're wonderful. Such thoughful comments. Some of my best friends and most effective organizers/lovers/humans are people without advanced education. I especially think that as what it means to be college educated in the U.S. weakens, college graduates should be sure to check their elitism at the door. And stop using words like elitism. HA!


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

Daknee said:


> I agree with you. Education is not what it's cracked up to be. It's nothing more than another business now. A big business at that. Unfortunatly the "world" what ever that means, says if you have a degree the better position or money you get. Don't get me wrong, I have a masters in counseling myself, there are many degreed people who are worthy of it, but on the other hand there are many worthy people without one that deserve good money and positons too. Many times they won't get the same job opportunities as those that paid for a piece of paper.
> From my experience getting my degree was more of a financial challenge than an educational one.



My parents didn't say that in so many words...but my father doesn't have a degree and is prevented from making over six figures at Xerox because of his lack of a piece of paper, despite nearly 30 years of experience in the industry.
He's working on his degree, but it is hard for him, I personally think he would be an amazing engineer. He's a very detail oriented person.

But, that's one of the reasons why he's been kicking my ass forward anytime I've lost motivation for college. Because he failed out of college, and not going back and forcing his way through is one of his biggest regrets...not because he thought he needed the education...but because that little piece of paper, though it may mean nothing, is one more way to open doors.

So, I suppose what I'm saying is, the only reason I'm still in college is because my parents don't want me missing anything because I don't have a slip of paper which causes so many problems to people.


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## Timberwolf (Apr 26, 2007)

39 degrees centigrade...


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## ashmamma84 (Apr 26, 2007)

Working on a B.S. of Pyschology; I graduate next June and then I'm headed to medical school.


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## OnAnotherPlanet (Apr 26, 2007)

Was originally majoring in English, then added a major in Geology to that (having completed 10 of the required 12 courses), so I'm stuck in college for one more year. I'm looking at one of two options.

1.) The double major in English and Geology and going to grad school for geology.
2.) Taking up a major in anthropology/human biology track or Sociology/health track and going to school for a M.S. in medicine to become a physician assistant.


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## eightyseven (Apr 26, 2007)

"I never let my schooling get in the way of my education" - Mark Twain

I absolutely love that quote. Anyways... I've got two years left until I receive my B.A. in Sociology. From there, I'm either going to graduate school for a MSW, MA in Counseling Psychology, or a Psy.D. Still not sure if I plan on going to graduate school directly after finishing my current degree, but there's so much time to decide on such things. I'm just thriled at the moment to have a few months without school.


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## LJ Rock (Apr 26, 2007)

ZainTheInsane said:


> Mind if I put this in my book of quotes and lessons? It is a little book to keep me motivated and to help me remember lessons and stuff people have told me that is important.  So, can I?



Go for it dude


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## Zandoz (Apr 26, 2007)

Bachelors in Computer Science with a minor in "General Science" that was entirely in Physics. But those brain cells have long ago gone over the rainbow to see Dorothy & Toto...now days I couldn't even write a simple COBOL command...and Assembler may as well be a top secret Klingon code. At this point I may as well have never gone past the 8th grade or so....most of it's gone.


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Apr 26, 2007)

A.A.S Information Systems

I also originally attended college for English/Journalism and hope to complete that degree next


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## Violet_Beauregard (Apr 26, 2007)

I took the CPS and the CAP a year apart. I studied my ass off for the CPS, but the CAP was a piece of cake. They've since adjusted the test for the CAP and I'm told it's equally as hard as the CPS, to pass. 

You're right... I think Business Admin and Business Mgmt are pretty much the same thing. I think the schools just use they name they like better! 

Thanks...so far I'm liking it. I'll be happy to be done thought. Good luck yourself.... once you're done and you find a good, rewarding job, it will all be worth it! 

Vi




ZainTheInsane said:


> I respect anyone with a CPS...I've been told it isn't fun to get. My mother used to have one, and she was frustrated with everything involving it. It seems like you faired much better with it
> 
> I wish you luck in getting your BS degree. I never really understood what is the technical difference between a degree in Business Administration, and a degree in Business Management...can anyone tell me? Or is it the same idea, just different names?
> 
> ...


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## Violet_Beauregard (Apr 26, 2007)

BRAVO... right on the money.... You are 100% correct in this whole quote.... 



LJ Rock said:


> I think it's important to remember that learning doesn't end once you take off that cap and gown. Life is school, man. Sometimes we gotta just be smart enough to close our mouths, open our ears and take in a little bit of knowlege each day.


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## Tad (Apr 26, 2007)

I have my bachelors in Electrical Engineering. There are only a few courses which I use in my job at all (and half of those were in the Management Science option I took), but the thought processes you learn from a good engineering program are useful. I've actually found I can often tell which of my co-workers did or did not go through engineering, just by the way they break down problems. So it was that general skill more than any specific piece of knowledge that has been most useful. But I do use some of the technical learning.

My wife got her BA in History and then took an MA in Public History (although she did her cognate paper in the rather non-public-history area of medieval marriage law). She then discovered that history is next only to philosophy as undergraduate degrees that don't inspire employers. Given the amount of research, synthesizing, and writing they do I don't know why this would be the case, but people who study these things say it is so. Since she loved her years working part time at teh university library she regrets that she did not instead take a masters in library science--she might have had it been offered in the city we were living in at the time, and in hindsight the hassle of commuting or moving might just have been worth it. (although just after graduating ended up pregnant and has mostly stayed home with our son since, but she's looking at trying to get back to work part time now).

-Ed


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## bigplaidpants (Apr 26, 2007)

ZainTheInsane said:


> Well, see, here's the thing, I'm wondering, particularly because I'm so freakin' nervous about having wasted my time. I mean, I've spent 5.5 years in college, and I honestly don't know if I've brought anything out of that experience. I just suppose I want to see what other people got degrees in, and what they're doing with them.
> 
> And even if you don't have a degree, I'm not trying to bash anyone...I failed out of college once already, screwed up numerous times, and still, despite finally settling on a major, don't know what I'm doing, what my ambitions are, or what I want to motivate my life. I suppose I just want to see what everyone else is doing so I don't feel so lost.
> 
> ...



Hey Zane. Kewl that you responded to me. Hope you didn't take my thoughts personally. You are asking for all the right reasons....and you SHOULD be able to talk about your education, what you're doing with it, and why in the hell you made the investment. So, in short, good thread.

Believe it or not, I was in ministry for 6 years full-time. I was offered a job pastoring a large church, and just felt "the call" to go back to school. The call came from many directions: personal, God (however you think of Her/Him), and the time in my life. I hope to teach and stay in some sort of ministry. Church and religion need alot of help right now. I tend to believe God's most-lost sheep are, well, the ones who claim "Him." 

<smiles, pauses>

I love social criticism and social justice, theology, and I believe in some kind of Kingdom. It's that simple. I wanted to study it. 

Thanks for asking. Peace, bratha.


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## bigplaidpants (Apr 26, 2007)

LJ Rock said:


> It is a bit of a sensitive area. But it is fun to share, and I am not even trying to be a braggar... I do have a college degree, one that I worked pretty hard for (and almost didn't make it!) I have a Bachelor of Music degree. It was really important to my parents that I get some kind of degree once I finished high school, and since music was really the only thing I was interested in, I went for it. It was hard, because I have never been big into acedemics (even though I did graduate with honors from high school.) But yeah, I had a tough time assimilating into college life, and I just _barely_ finished! (A long story.)
> 
> I might also point out that many friends of mine who do not have degrees are way *smarter* than me, and also have much better paying jobs than I do! I think that education is important, but education alone won't take you as far in life as having smarts, experience and some common sense. Also, the more I learn the more I understand that in nearly all areas of life, an individual is only as strong as his or her networks (hence that famous saying, "It's not what you know, but who you know.")
> 
> Sometimes I contemplate going back to school to become an educator. If I do, it won't be for a while though.




Man, kudos, LJ. Agreed. 

Congrats on getting through, too. If you choose to go back to become an educator, I gotchyo back. Education is a service and a calling, IMHO. Goes to the heart of what is meant by "vocation."

To serve your fellow.....no higher call.


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## imfree (Apr 26, 2007)

Originally Posted by LJ Rock 
"I think it's important to remember that learning doesn't end once you take off that cap and gown. Life is school, man. Sometimes we gotta just be smart enough to close our mouths, open our ears and take in a little bit of knowledge each day."

You got THAT right, LJ Rock! Life's lessons can be the ones that 
hurt the most, but are NEVER forgotten, either.


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## Waxwing (Apr 26, 2007)

I have a BA and MA in English, but really want a doctorate in something totally different. American Studies, or History or something.


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## ThatFatGirl (Apr 26, 2007)

I have a bachelor of fine arts degree from a fabulous art school. I had the time of my life then with new life adventures, new challenges, and new relationships that touched my life and will stay with me forever. The job I've had for the last nine (gulp) years is admin. assistant (and "community outreach coordinator") at a public radio station. I love public broadcasting. I love much of the community that makes up the members, volunteers, student interns, and others that visit the station and attend our events.

Art is a hobby now, one that I rarely give any time to. I don't want to be an admin. assistant the rest of my life. I'm not sure what I want to do. My focus right now is more on personal rather than professional goals, including doing what I need to do to finally live with my new husband who lives two and a half states away. My thoughts are on selling my house, paying off debts, moving, experiencing the joys of married life and the glorious benefit of being able to get our freak on anytime we want (without making travel plans!) and finally figuring out the answer to the "baby or no baby?" question. 

I would like to go back to school at some point. If art ever becomes important in my life again (and I'd love for it to be), I might eventually try to get into an MFA program. For now, I'm focused on packing up my house and selecting paint for my livingroom and den, and hoping the contractors who laid new kitchen and bathroom floors for me last weekend will return to fix the water pressure in the bathroom.


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## BigCutieSasha (Apr 26, 2007)

I am a licensed massage therapist/practitioner.


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## Paw Paw (Apr 26, 2007)

BigCutieSasha said:


> I am a licensed massage therapist/practitioner.



Now, that is a useful piece of parchment (sheepskin)!!

I was thinking about adding that to my repertoire.

Peace,
2P.


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## Red (Apr 26, 2007)

BA (hons) in Costume, Make-up and Technical Effects for the Performing Arts

and I'm working towards an MSc in Art Therapy It may take some time!


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## LJ Rock (Apr 26, 2007)

bigplaidpants said:


> Man, kudos, LJ. Agreed.
> 
> Congrats on getting through, too. If you choose to go back to become an educator, I gotchyo back. Education is a service and a calling, IMHO. Goes to the heart of what is meant by "vocation."
> 
> To serve your fellow.....no higher call.



Thanks, Bigplaidpants.... I agree. I think that teaching is a very important job. It is a sort of calling if you will, and I think there are some people who truly have a gift for being able to impart knowlege to others; those who are able to break down the information and really explain things in a way that others can understand. I don't know if I am necessarily one of those people... sometimes I like to think I am. 

I've done a bit of teaching in my past, mostly private music lessons. It can be tiring and frustrating sometimes. But it really is satisfying when you see that a young person is really "getting it" and their lives are richer for it. Someday I would love to be the kind of teacher who reached out to me when I was a young and impressionable kid (I had many, actually) and really teach the students to appreciate music, art and culture and the world around them.


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## Paw Paw (Apr 26, 2007)

Red said:


> BA (hons) in Costume, Make-up and Technical Effects for the Performing Arts
> 
> and I'm working towards an MSc in Art Therapy It may take some time!




Forgive my ignorance, but what is art therapy?

Peace,
2P.


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## Red (Apr 26, 2007)

Hey Paw Paw, Art Therapy is a form of psychotherapy that uses art media as its primary mode of communication.


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## tink977 (Apr 26, 2007)

You know, I see a few people on here wit degrees in music. I started out with a major in music and ended up with the minor when after spending 3 1/2 years with it as a major, I realized that all I was doing was screwing up. I don't know where ya'll went to school, but all I did in my music department was party...lol. Out every single night and drunk in class most of the time. I don't know if there was ever a time in our class when most of the class wasn't stoned or drunk....even the professors...which brings me to another subject...I think I'll begin a new thread on that subject...lol.


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## stan_der_man (Apr 26, 2007)

You know speaking of degrees... In theory there are only 6 degrees of separation between any one of us her on the Dims boards...

6° away from you...

fa_man_stan


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## MissToodles (Apr 26, 2007)

Right now, I have a B.A. in English with almost 30 credits above my Bachelor's. Have all the courses I need to teach middle/high school English, need one more course for special education certification plus the certifying test. If I teach special ed for five consecutive years in a Title I school (that's where 66 % of students are eligible for free/reduced price lunch), I can have 17,500 of my federal loans forgiven. Yippie!
I'm currently enrolled as a non-matriculated student in an education grad. class. I'm pursuing a TESOL scholarship through nyc dept. of ed and will probably end up teaching E.S.L by the time I'm 31 or 32. Then sometime after that, I want to pursue interests of mine. So many of my elective courses (over 30 credits worth) were wasted on useless pedagogical courses. I feel like I was cheated out of the authentic college experience.


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## alienlanes (Apr 26, 2007)

edx said:


> She then discovered that history is next only to philosophy as undergraduate degrees that don't inspire employers.



Don't I know it ! I have a BA in History, with a focus on twentieth-century American intellectual and cultural history. (Anyone who wants to geek out on this subject is welcome to PM me .) I've spent the past two years trying to find work in a museum, library or university, but there's not much you can do in those settings without a master's degree of some sort. I had several promising interviews for clerical/administrative positions, but none of them panned out, so I've been stuck doing temping and retail work. For a while I tried to do the whole "temp slave during the day, hipster bohemian at night" thing. I was still in that phase when I first signed up at Dims last spring to ask about Chicago events; hence the name "SlackerFA," which I now have very mixed feelings about :doh:. By the end of last year, though, I realized that I would need a job I actually _enjoyed_, or at least could tolerate, if my life wasn't going to totally suck.

I'll be starting an MSLIS (Masters of Science in Library and Information Science), with a focus on Manuscripts & Archives, this fall. I'm hoping that this will let me do what Jes suggested, namely work in a university (and get to hang around old books all day!), without having to "publish or perish" in the struggle for tenure.

I still debate whether or not I should go for a Ph.D., either in American history/American Studies or in evolutionary anthropology. I'd love to be a professor, but I don't know if I could handle the stress of trying to find and keep a tenure-track job, and I want to maintain a clearly defined work/life balance. Plus I have real problems with the way that the disciplinary structure of the humanities and social sciences forces aspiring academics into ever-more-hermetic specialist research at the expense of comprehensive general knowledge. What I _really_ want is to be an erudite generalist social and cultural critic... but unfortunately they don't offer degrees or endowed chairs in that .

All that said, I agree with BPP, AFG and others who have pointed out that a person's degrees don't really say anything about that person's intelligence. Some of the smartest people I know are college dropouts, and some of the dumbest people I know are Ivy League BAs. IMO, a college degree is really only important if you need vocational training to get the job you want. If you're interested in learning for its own sake, there's not much you can learn as an undergraduate that you can't teach yourself for free at the public library.


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## Jes (Apr 26, 2007)

SlackerFA said:


> Don't I know it ! I have a BA in History, with a focus on twentieth-century American intellectual and cultural history. (Anyone who wants to geek out on this subject is welcome to PM me .) I've spent the past two years trying to find work in a museum, library or university, but there's not much you can do in those settings without a master's degree of some sort. I had several promising interviews for clerical/administrative positions, but none of them panned out, so I've been stuck doing temping and retail work. For a while I tried to do the whole "temp slave during the day, hipster bohemian at night" thing. I was still in that phase when I first signed up at Dims last spring to ask about Chicago events; hence the name "SlackerFA," which I now have very mixed feelings about :doh:. By the end of last year, though, I realized that I would need a job I actually _enjoyed_, or at least could tolerate, if my life wasn't going to totally suck.
> 
> I'll be starting an MSLIS (Masters of Science in Library and Information Science), with a focus on Manuscripts & Archives, this fall. I'm hoping that this will let me do what Jes suggested, namely work in a university (and get to hang around old books all day!), without having to "publish or perish" in the struggle for tenure.
> 
> ...



ps: I hope you realize that 75% of academic librarians are in tenure-leading jobs, booboo! Keep it in mind. We're all expected to be professionally active, but mannny of us are involved in the publish or perish game.


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## jamie (Apr 26, 2007)

I have a BA in English with a lit concentration and a BA in Philosophy with a political philosophy concentration. After college I went to law school for 2 and a half years....what do I do now? Graphic design, interactive media and web work. I have no idea how I got here. I started working for the company I am with now part time while I was in law school to help pay the bills, and then just kind of stayed on for the long run.

I get the itch, a lot more than I would like to, to go back to school to get my Masters. I don't think I need it professionally, but I just really like school and would like to have the opportunity to make different choices about where my career path leads. However, I really don't want to take on any more student loan debt, just to have another piece of paper.


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## Jane (Apr 26, 2007)

jamie said:


> I have a BA in English with a lit concentration and a BA in Philosophy with a political philosophy concentration. After college I went to law school for 2 and a half years....what do I do now? Graphic design, interactive media and web work. I have no idea how I got here. I started working for the company I am with now part time while I was in law school to help pay the bills, and then just kind of stayed on for the long run.
> 
> I get the itch, a lot more than I would like to, to go back to school to get my Masters. I don't think I need it professionally, but I just really like school and would like to have the opportunity to make different choices about where my career path leads. However, I really don't want to take on any more student loan debt, just to have another piece of paper.



No thoughts of going back to law school?


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

Timberwolf said:


> 39 degrees centigrade...



hehe nice


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## alienlanes (Apr 26, 2007)

Jes said:


> ps: I hope you realize that 75% of academic librarians are in tenure-leading jobs, booboo! Keep it in mind. We're all expected to be professionally active, but mannny of us are involved in the publish or perish game.



Oh no! I'm screwed ! 

...just kidding . I didn't know that, but it doesn't worry me too much. I think I'll love being an archivist, but I'm still considering it a _job_ and approaching my master's degree as being vocational training. If I'm expected to publish research as part of my professional advancement, I can handle that. Whereas I worry that if I tried to get a Ph.D. in history or anthropology, I would lose my avocational enthusiasm for the subject, which would be very bad. That's really what I mean by "work/life balance."

So, um... what sort of publications are expected of an academic librarian?


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## Theatrmuse/Kara (Apr 26, 2007)

Adjuncts are AWESOME...everyone I've had has been amazing, and full of life. They are always amazing people. Round of applause for Adjuncts  

huggles  and take care [/QUOTE]

I truely believe that those of us that are adjuncting in the Universities are those that WANT to teach..............otherwise, we would be heading off somewhere else in seach of full time benefits and health insurance!

AND "thanks" for the applause...........always works for a "theatre" person! LOL! Hugs, Kara


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

bigplaidpants said:


> Hey Zane. Kewl that you responded to me. Hope you didn't take my thoughts personally. You are asking for all the right reasons....and you SHOULD be able to talk about your education, what you're doing with it, and why in the hell you made the investment. So, in short, good thread.
> 
> Believe it or not, I was in ministry for 6 years full-time. I was offered a job pastoring a large church, and just felt "the call" to go back to school. The call came from many directions: personal, God (however you think of Her/Him), and the time in my life. I hope to teach and stay in some sort of ministry. Church and religion need alot of help right now. I tend to believe God's most-lost sheep are, well, the ones who claim "Him."
> 
> ...



Thanks for the compliment 

I think William Graf (Father Bill as he likes to be called...or Dr. Bill to his students) is the same way...he really loves teaching more than being a pastor. If it weren't for a shortage of priests in the area, I think he'd be a full-time professor. 

As far as God goes, he/she is whomever someone believes him/her to be. Despite coming from a Roman Catholic background, I'd have to say my beliefs more loosely (and I do mean VERY loosely) follow that of the Jewish faith's system of beliefs. From the research I've done anyway. 

I'm also fascinated by angels, and their purposes and representations. 

Best wishes to you in your pursuit of knowledge of the Kingdom, and I hope you enjoy every step of the journey


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

Waxwing said:


> I have a BA and MA in English, but really want a doctorate in something totally different. American Studies, or History or something.



Wow, hey, do you think you could help me with some writing of mine? I love writing, but I have this horrible knack for being bogged down with the language...considering my limited vocabulary, and my inability to pick out a word which sounds appropriate without being too over the top.

Any suggestions to help enhance a person's vocabulary?

Oh, and I suggest history...just because history is awesome


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

ThatFatGirl said:


> I have a bachelor of fine arts degree from a fabulous art school. I had the time of my life then with new life adventures, new challenges, and new relationships that touched my life and will stay with me forever. The job I've had for the last nine (gulp) years is admin. assistant (and "community outreach coordinator") at a public radio station. I love public broadcasting. I love much of the community that makes up the members, volunteers, student interns, and others that visit the station and attend our events.
> 
> Art is a hobby now, one that I rarely give any time to. I don't want to be an admin. assistant the rest of my life. I'm not sure what I want to do. My focus right now is more on personal rather than professional goals, including doing what I need to do to finally live with my new husband who lives two and a half states away. My thoughts are on selling my house, paying off debts, moving, experiencing the joys of married life and the glorious benefit of being able to get our freak on anytime we want (without making travel plans!) and finally figuring out the answer to the "baby or no baby?" question.
> 
> I would like to go back to school at some point. If art ever becomes important in my life again (and I'd love for it to be), I might eventually try to get into an MFA program. For now, I'm focused on packing up my house and selecting paint for my livingroom and den, and hoping the contractors who laid new kitchen and bathroom floors for me last weekend will return to fix the water pressure in the bathroom.



Well, whatever way you decide to go, I wish you the best of luck and happiness in getting there


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

BigCutieSasha said:


> I am a licensed massage therapist/practitioner.



oooooooo....
Can I have a full body massage  pretty please? :smitten:


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

Green Eyed Fairy said:


> A.A.S Information Systems
> 
> I also originally attended college for English/Journalism and hope to complete that degree next



GO FOR IT 

Any idea where you want to go with the degree? Maybe a poetry collection?


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

Red said:


> BA (hons) in Costume, Make-up and Technical Effects for the Performing Arts
> 
> and I'm working towards an MSc in Art Therapy It may take some time!



Costume and Make-up eh? Can I consult you as to my halloween costume this year?

My friend Mike Hetzer was into that sort of thing...though maybe set design instead...I don't remember. 

Good luck with your degree in Art Therapy


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## Red (Apr 26, 2007)

ZainTheInsane said:


> Costume and Make-up eh? Can I consult you as to my halloween costume this year?





Best Halloween costume ever?


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

Red said:


> Best Halloween costume ever?



HAHAHAHAHA!!!

that is awesome!!

Though I was thinking more dorky  
Such as a Batman costume based off a particular look...or an Alucard get-up.

But that costume has to be the coolest thing ever.


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## Jane (Apr 26, 2007)

ZainTheInsane said:


> Wow, hey, do you think you could help me with some writing of mine? I love writing, but I have this horrible knack for being bogged down with the language...considering my limited vocabulary, and my inability to pick out a word which sounds appropriate without being too over the top.
> 
> Any suggestions to help enhance a person's vocabulary?
> 
> Oh, and I suggest history...just because history is awesome



http://www.m-w.com/

http://www.synonym.com/synonym/


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

Jane said:


> http://www.m-w.com/
> 
> http://www.synonym.com/synonym/



Muchas gracias!


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## stan_der_man (Apr 26, 2007)

I don't know if this counts... My boss just gave me the Third Degree!

P.S. Don't worry Jane, I'm OK, it's just another California story... 



> Wow, hey, do you think you could help me with some writing of mine? I love writing, but I have this horrible knack for being bogged down with the language...considering my limited vocabulary, and my inability to pick out a word which sounds appropriate without being too over the top.
> 
> Any suggestions to help enhance a person's vocabulary?
> 
> Oh, and I suggest history...just because history is awesome



Zain, dumb as this sounds, I just play around with the thesaurus in M.S. Word and look at the definitions of words. Sooner or later you find a word that more closely fits what you are trying to describe, or that sounds cool.

Stan


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

fa_man_stan said:


> I don't know if this counts... My boss just gave me the Third Degree!
> 
> P.S. Don't worry Jane, I'm OK, it's just another California story...



ooo...that sounds like a degree I hope I never get...but will most likely get many times. :bow:


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## MissToodles (Apr 26, 2007)

I'm suprised no one answered from the school of hard knocks (nyuk nyuk nyuk)

okay, must see my little pupil. Ta y'all!


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## stan_der_man (Apr 26, 2007)

Just a thought...

Not meaning to be condescending... try to hang around smart people and listen to the way they speak. I've heard some really funny things come from the mouths of 4 year old children of professors at the university where I work, such as, "I fail to see what was so amusing".

Also, like the other's here said: Read, read, read. Even if it's just a newspaper, read and get a feel of how the english language flows. It will become intuitive at very least. Writing is an art. As a writer you are an artist. Artists need to be good observers before they can create wonderful and intricate works of art from the things that they have seen.

Stan


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## Jes (Apr 26, 2007)

SlackerFA said:


> Oh no! I'm screwed !
> 
> ...just kidding . I didn't know that, but it doesn't worry me too much. I think I'll love being an archivist, but I'm still considering it a _job_ and approaching my master's degree as being vocational training. If I'm expected to publish research as part of my professional advancement, I can handle that. Whereas I worry that if I tried to get a Ph.D. in history or anthropology, I would lose my avocational enthusiasm for the subject, which would be very bad. That's really what I mean by "work/life balance."
> 
> So, um... what sort of publications are expected of an academic librarian?



the same sorts of things as non librarians--and the shitter is, we don't get a 9 month contract or sabbaticals.  
anyway, we'll take it to PMs where you can buy me a drink, and we can sit a spell.


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

fa_man_stan said:


> Just a thought...
> 
> Not meaning to be condescending... try to hang around smart people and listen to the way they speak. I've heard some really funny things come from the mouths of 4 year old children of professors at the university where I work, such as, "I fail to see what was so amusing".
> 
> ...



I do hang around with smart people...thus why I'm trying to expand my vocabulary...so I can understand what the heck they are saying :blink: 

But I'm definitely up for your suggestion to read read read...it has been a while since I've picked up a book that wasn't 500 pages, boring as hell, and cost over $100....damn college text books.

So read I shall! :bounce:


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## rainyday (Apr 26, 2007)

MissToodles said:


> I'm suprised no one answered from the school of hard knocks (nyuk nyuk nyuk)


Ha! I think PawPaw mentioned that in his post. 

Two bachelors, one in marketing, one in journalism. Somehow I escaped from college with a pretty poor knowledge of history and literature, which I'm trying to remedy on my own. That information would have been a lot more useful to me I think than the finance and statistics courses I beat my head up with for the business degree. The degrees have kept me employed though.

Tentative plan in the works to go back to school for a masters.


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## Jane (Apr 26, 2007)

fa_man_stan said:


> Just a thought...
> 
> Not meaning to be condescending... try to hang around smart people and listen to the way they speak. I've heard some really funny things come from the mouths of 4 year old children of professors at the university where I work, such as, "I fail to see what was so amusing".



When my son was six, I was on a rant about something one of my friends had done. My son looked at me and quietly said, "They have different priorities."

(Wanted to drop kick him and hug him at the same time. I'm not that limber.)


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## kerrypop (Apr 26, 2007)

I am back on the internet!  Hooray!

I do not have a degree. I have 6 weeks, and THEN I will have a degree. SIX WEEKS. UGH it doesn't sound like much, but dragging myself to class is becoming more and more difficult every day. Additionally, it isn't over after 6 weeks, I got accepted to grad school! AWESOME! and also... unawesome. 
...Education/specialeducation... btw.


Also- I agree with the comments saying that education is silly and businessy and bleh. I think a big reason for that is for many jobs experience is far more valuable than the education behind it... and also (for the education field especially) some people will make it, and some people won't, regardless of their education. You kind of just need to have what it takes, and if you don't... well... that sucks. This doesn't apply to all jobs, and college is awesome if you're going to be a computer programmer or a doctor or something like that. 

Thats all I have to say about that. 

Hooray for being back on the internet!


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## Green Eyed Fairy (Apr 26, 2007)

Jane said:


> When my son was six, I was on a rant about something one of my friends had done. My son looked at me and quietly said, "They have different priorities."
> 
> (Wanted to drop kick him and hug him at the same time. I'm not that limber.)




Lol- "out of the mouths of babes"


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## AnnMarie (Apr 26, 2007)

I think my pride in getting my degree is a personal acheivement pride, much more so than it is about the classes or area of study (which is not at all related to my career). 

I agree with BPP that degrees and their lists can be off putting to many... and when you get right down to it, they don't measure much other than your money/debt/study time, etc. when you're dealing with intellect, humor, reasoning, etc. It could be you or me or anyone, and some of the smartest and most accomplished people I know have no degrees to speak of. 

It's a crap shoot. 

I have a degree (BS), and I'm very proud to have it because of the work I put in, the time I put in, and the fact that I was never a successful student in high school... always talking, always funny, always creative, but not enough study and prep. Always skating by on a good memory and last minute crash sessions. I know plenty, but not as much as I should have. I don't regret it because I think it's just part of who I am... but college was a big accomplishment for me, as an adult. I did it all on my own. 

That is where the value of my degree becomes real to me - and when employers just want to see parchment, at least I have it.


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## tonynyc (Apr 26, 2007)

ZainTheInsane said:


> I've got one semester left in my Business Management degree, and I was wondering what everyone else has as far as degrees, certifications, and diplomas go? Do we have any doctorates in the house? Masters? Law? MBA?
> What degree are you working on? What degree would you like to work on?
> 
> Also what got you there? What was your motivation? What ambition drove you forward? And how hard was it to get there? Were there any bumps in the road? Or was it relatively smooth sailing?



Hmmm now how did that saying go...

BS = Bull Shit
MS = More Shit 
Phd = Pile Higher and Deeper

But enough of my saracasm...I graduated with a terminal Masters Degree 
(Applied Sociology/Minor :Statistics). I was fortunate to enjoy my studies and to be in jobs that have given me equal satisfaction. The learning never stops. 

Degrees are a necessary requirements for some jobs; ie, Law, Medicine, Teaching etc. ; but, there have been many folks that have been extremely successful without ever finishing college...


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## kathynoon (Apr 26, 2007)

For my occupation, a college degree is a requirement, and an advanced degrees helps with your starting salary.

I went straight through after high school to get a bachelors from Rutgers (NJ) in applied math and then a master from Drexel (PA) in computational math. I knew once I stopped, I would never go back seriously. I have taken classes since then, but will never enroll in another degree program. I loved math, and loved school, os going was never a burden to me.

I have other friends with equal education, and some with much less. all have built good lifes and made positive impacts on the world.


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## Violet_Beauregard (Apr 26, 2007)

Holy crap.... I hate math.... congrats to you... wow..... Rutgers... sheesh....  Good for you!!





kathynoon said:


> For my occupation, a college degree is a requirement, and an advanced degrees helps with your starting salary.
> 
> I went straight through after high school to get a bachelors from Rutgers (NJ) in applied math and then a master from Drexel (PA) in computational math. I knew once I stopped, I would never go back seriously. I have taken classes since then, but will never enroll in another degree program. I loved math, and loved school, os going was never a burden to me.
> 
> I have other friends with equal education, and some with much less. all have built good lifes and made positive impacts on the world.


----------



## jamie (Apr 26, 2007)

Jane said:


> No thoughts of going back to law school?



Absolutely not one, it was the biggest mistake/regret of my life. We all have our flaws and mine is being too full of pride in some areas. I was on track to be a university professor, that was what I wanted to do with life, when the head of our phil. department teased me about getting the law school scholarship. He thought I couldn't do it and his smugness and my stupidity completely changed my course. Law school is not hard academically, it is digest and regurgitation. 

Law school was difficult for my philosophically. I have trouble selling myself and I was amazed at the mentality of those in class with me. I wanted to help those in the same situations as my family growing up, but time and time again I saw people putting in face time with the Legal Aid projects just to get something on their resumes or to up their rank with the professors. The thing was they never cared and would come in the next day joking about the loser "welfare mothers" or "insert your racial slur here." 

I was not strong enough to stand up for myself or anyone else back then. The years after law school were spent with me bouncing around like a big rubber ball from one stance to another, but now I am pretty strongly grounded. I could go back and finish, but I prefer putting my money and time where my beliefs are, putting in volunteer time and supporting the democratic process to help those like my family. The law field is just too disappointing to imagine that being my life from day to day.


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## BLUEeyedBanshee (Apr 26, 2007)

I have a BA in English with a minor in Classical Civilizations and Biology

Also I am working on my MA in English, concentration in Folklore Studies


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## Miss Vickie (Apr 26, 2007)

Red said:


> Best Halloween costume ever?



Oh my God. Welcome to my world. 

My degree? Bachelors of Science in Nursing. Thinking about working toward my Masters in Nursing, with a focus on education. Just thinking, though; I'm still too traumatized by nursing school to do more than that at this point.


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## BLUEeyedBanshee (Apr 26, 2007)

Miss Vickie, not to butt in...but you know how they keep talking about the nursing shortage in the US? 

Well the Nurse educator shortage is even bigger! If your heart's in it...I'd say go for it.

(I work in a College of Nursing and finding good faculty is a horrible thing)


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## Aliena (Apr 26, 2007)

I do not have a piece of paper to go with my many college credit hours. However, upon a recent view of my transcripts, an admitting officer told me I should return to my previous community college and request they give me my Asst.'s in Liberal Arts. Apparently, I can do that. At this time, I'm returning to school in the fall for a bachelors in Clinical Social Work and possibly doubling my major with one also in nutrition. (or end up with a minor--I'm still trying to figure out my course of action)

I will follow through afterwards for a masters; I need it for what it is I want to do. 

I am a late-bloomer and a procrastinator, thus having never finished my upper education. Such is that of life. 
I do have a minor in music education though--once I get a degree that is.


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## Butterbelly (Apr 26, 2007)

I started out with an Associates Degree in Applied Science...then transferred to a six year medical school program. Eventually, I dropped out of the med program (2 years into it) and went for my B.S. in Chemistry, minor in microbiology, mathmatetics, and virology. I have my national registry in Medical Technology and worked as a Med Tech for several years before returning to get my second bachelors in English (emphasis in technical writing) with a minor in literature, history, and Spanish.

I recently applied to graduate schools in North Carolina, New York, and Missouri for my masters degree in Health Administration and Policy. I was accepted into three different schools. Hopefully in the fall I'm off to get my masters degree...and eventually my Ph.D.


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## BigBeautifulMe (Apr 26, 2007)

So, if you're not in the mood for a long story, you'll want to skip my post.  Zain, I'm going to make you sorry you asked. 

During my first two years of high school, I was consistently on the Honor Roll. I got A's in nearly everything. By the time my junior year rolled around, though, I was always tired. I never wanted to get up for classes - I only wanted to sleep. I can't tell you how many times my parents called me lazy, or got angry/frustrated with me because I just wouldn't get out of bed. Finally, they started doing things like throwing ice on me to make me get out of bed. So I started getting out of bed, and driving to nearby parks or shopping centers, and sleeping in the car. When they realized I still wasn't actually going to school, they started driving me themselves. I'd pack a tiny pillow in my backpack, find the bathroom nearest the entrance to the school, and go straight there and sleep when I was dropped off. (I slept on the floor of the handicapped stall, between the toilet and the wall).

Despite my less-than-stellar grades my junior and senior years (honestly, I was absent more days than I was present my senior year), I was admitted to VCU's music program as a vocal performance major. This program, as I understood it, anyway, was fairly well-known. I decided to take a semester off and not start until the spring semester the year after I graduated - but the music department still decided to start me off at 24 credit hours (I had to get special permission to take that many). This also didn't include the fact that I worked full time on weekends, had to take private piano lessons, and had to spend 3 hours in the practice rooms daily (two for voice, one for piano). A month into the semester, I had stopped attending classes altogether, and spent all my time - you guessed it - sleeping.

I (understandably) was placed on academic probation, and decided that school obviously wasn't for me, and went back to work full time. I kept alternating working full time and attending community college full time (and dropping out halfway through the semester) for several years. Between 1997 and 2002, despite three attempts at attending school full time, I only managed to accumulate credit for two classes. I don't honestly know how long I would have continued this cycle had it not been for my ex boyfriend. 

I was miserable at my job (I was a temp secretary for most of this time). I woke up in the mornings crying because I hated work so much. My ex mentioned going back to school - and I said "I'll be 27 when I graduate. I'll be too old." He said "And how old will you be in four years if you DON'T graduate?" That was the best gift he ever gave me.

So in the fall of 2002, I moved to Lexington, KY to be with him, and to attend what was then Lexington Community College. I worked full time, attended classes full time, and slept at least 16 hours a day on the weekends. In 2004 (despite the fact that we had broken up in '03) I graduated with my Associate's Degree in the Arts, with a 3.87 GPA, and as a Phi Theta Kappa (honor society) member. I was turned down by other four-year colleges I applied to because of my previous college experiences, but Smith College decided, based on an interview and an essay, that I deserved a shot. So they admitted me. I was so excited by my admission (and my financial aid package!) that I spent an hour on the phone with my mother, crying. Anyone who knows of Smith, I think, would probably know of its prestigious standing - and can understand WHY it was worth all those tears of joy. 

The registrar only accepted 44 of my 64 transfercredits, but I didn't mind, because I knew that meant an extra year of a Smith education. So in the fall of 2004, I began my life here. That fall semester, though, was hellacious. I could no longer handle work and classes - I was sleeping all the time (up to 18 hours a day). I couldn't understand why I never WANTED to go to sleep, but why once I did I couldn't STOP sleeping. The doctor at health services suggested I go for a sleep test. I was hesitant, but I agreed. I was tested in February, and discovered that I had severe sleep apnea. I stopped breathing 97 times per hour while I slept, and every time I did, my body would wake me to make me breathe again. That's quite alot of awakenings in the course of a night (almost 800 in a typical night). 

The remedy for that is CPAP - a machine that is basically a fan blowing pressurized air down your throat to keep it open while you sleep. I had a second sleep study to determine what pressure I needed. Unfortunately, the technician I had for that second study was pretty incompetent (I didn't know it at the time, though). 

The doctors kept telling me I should feel better soon (despite the fact that I'd probably been BORN with apnea - thus 25+ years of suffocating while I slept - eek!) but the tiredness continued. They told me I must just be one of those people with apnea who NEVER feels rested, and that I should quit Smith, give up my dreams, and just sit at home and collect disability. I refused.

Spring semester I had the same problems as the fall. I couldn't get the reading done, because I'd fall asleep reading. I couldn't get the papers done without doing the reading for them first. And I slept through class on a regular basis, which always resulted in serious self-hatred. I somehow made it through that first year, but still felt no better. To make an already-too-long story short, I found out I needed a much higher pressure than originally prescribed, and a different mask. It wasn't til this summer that I finally got the right setup, but thanks to years of sleep deprivation, I still have a lot of catching up to do, and am still only very infrequently feeling rested. I know it'll get better - but it makes things really, really difficult. I've been struggling through this semester, which will hopefully be my last. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, my eye on the prize, etc - I've got an insanely long list of things to finish between now and the end of the semester, but I'm GOING to get it done. And I am GOING to graduate on May 20. And I honestly don't think anyone has ever been prouder than I will be to receive that diploma that day.


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## ZainTheInsane (Apr 26, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> So, if you're not in the mood for a long story, you'll want to skip my post.  Zain, I'm going to make you sorry you asked.
> 
> During my first two years of high school, I was consistently on the Honor Roll. I got A's in nearly everything. By the time my junior year rolled around, though, I was always tired. I never wanted to get up for classes - I only wanted to sleep. I can't tell you how many times my parents called me lazy, or got angry/frustrated with me because I just wouldn't get out of bed. Finally, they started doing things like throwing ice on me to make me get out of bed. So I started getting out of bed, and driving to nearby parks or shopping centers, and sleeping in the car. When they realized I still wasn't actually going to school, they started driving me themselves. I'd pack a tiny pillow in my backpack, find the bathroom nearest the entrance to the school, and go straight there and sleep when I was dropped off. (I slept on the floor of the handicapped stall, between the toilet and the wall).
> 
> ...



I am actually a lot happier that I did ask. This story is an inspiration  Many thanks to you, and I wish you all the luck in the world. People like yourself are heroes in my eyes...because you go through piles and piles of shit, work through problems I don't think I could get the gumption to pull through in all the years I've existed. And you do what you want to do. I hope you're proudly crossing the walk on May 20th...and I wish I could be there to see you. Kudos, congrats, and best wishes. Take care. :bow:


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## alienlanes (Apr 26, 2007)

ZainTheInsane said:


> I am actually a lot happier that I did ask. This story is an inspiration  Many thanks to you, and I wish you all the luck in the world. People like yourself are heroes in my eyes...because you go through piles and piles of shit, work through problems I don't think I could get the gumption to pull through in all the years I've existed. And you do what you want to do. I hope you're proudly crossing the walk on May 20th...and I wish I could be there to see you. Kudos, congrats, and best wishes. Take care. :bow:



Seconded. That's an amazing, inspiring story, BBM. :bow:

ETA: For some reason I find it very amusing that Zain's and my smilies are bowing in unison.


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## Aliena (Apr 27, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> So, if you're not in the mood for a long story, you'll want to skip my post.  Zain, I'm going to make you sorry you asked.
> 
> During my first two years of high school, I was consistently on the Honor Roll. I got A's in nearly everything. By the time my junior year rolled around, though, I was always tired. I never wanted to get up for classes - I only wanted to sleep. I can't tell you how many times my parents called me lazy, or got angry/frustrated with me because I just wouldn't get out of bed. Finally, they started doing things like throwing ice on me to make me get out of bed. So I started getting out of bed, and driving to nearby parks or shopping centers, and sleeping in the car. When they realized I still wasn't actually going to school, they started driving me themselves. I'd pack a tiny pillow in my backpack, find the bathroom nearest the entrance to the school, and go straight there and sleep when I was dropped off. (I slept on the floor of the handicapped stall, between the toilet and the wall)...
> 
> ... To make an already-too-long story short, I found out I needed a much higher pressure than originally prescribed, and a different mask. It wasn't til this summer that I finally got the right setup, but thanks to years of sleep deprivation, I still have a lot of catching up to do, and am still only very infrequently feeling rested. I know it'll get better - but it makes things really, really difficult. I've been struggling through this semester, which will hopefully be my last. I'm keeping my fingers crossed, my eye on the prize, etc - I've got an insanely long list of things to finish between now and the end of the semester, but I'm GOING to get it done. And I am GOING to graduate on May 20. And I honestly don't think anyone has ever been prouder than I will be to receive that diploma that day.





You have every right to be proud! I think it can be easily overlooked how some folks, like you, (and me) struggle for that diploma. 

For some, getting that degree is easy and kudos to them. But for those who fight there way to the cap and gown, extra brownie points for persevering through. 

I am nervous about this next attempt at going to college, (which by the way is the old Lexington school you went too) because I've failed so many times before. It is a self hatred mantra that goes on in my head when I see so many folks with their paper(s) and I (who has enough credit hours for one too) still don't. I play the "if only you" game. 
Somethings are as they are, but when there are triumphs, rejoice! 

Congratulations. :bow:


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## Punkin1024 (Apr 27, 2007)

Zane,
I'm really glad you posted your questions. I believe all the wonderful posts you have here will help you in your decisions. I wish I had asked questions when I was making my degree choices. I have a Bachelor of Science in Social Work and I work in Items Processing at a Bank. Many times over the years, I wish I had had more information about choosing the right career path. I am thankful for my degree and I feel the experiences I had in college have helped me in my life. I had a college professor that said if all we did was get married and raise a family, that the information we had in Social Work would be an advantage. 

One side-note, then I'll close. I recently heard some teacher friends say that a new focus is on the rise in grade schools and high schools in Texas. She said that they are now placing less focus on college and more in training in areas that the student is more likely to find useful and rewarding. This reminds me of a country song called "I Want My Money Back". There is a line in it that says the singer got his college degree and now he is qualified to say "Do you want fries with that?"

My best wishes to you and all that are pursuing a degree. I hope that you find your time well spent and your future career path satifying and rewarding.

~Punkin


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## BigBeautifulMe (Apr 27, 2007)

Aliena said:


> You have every right to be proud! I think it can be easily overlooked how some folks, like you, (and me) struggle for that diploma.
> 
> For some, getting that degree is easy and kudos to them. But for those who fight there way to the cap and gown, extra brownie points for persevering through.
> 
> ...


Ah! You'll have to say hi to some of my old friends for me when you go back! (Notice I said "when," not "if.") I can tell you who some of my favorite professors are - I still keep in touch with them, and the Academic Dean - also a friend.


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## Aliena (Apr 27, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Ah! You'll have to say hi to some of my old friends for me when you go back! (Notice I said "when," not "if.") I can tell you who some of my favorite professors are - I still keep in touch with them, and the Academic Dean - also a friend.



Oh!!! We should sooooooo PM one another, because I definitely want the *good* professors! 
I'm really excited about starting again. I believe I'll be successful this time, because I have a clear view of what I want to do and a passion to do it. For me, I need that passion. 

Thank you for your support. And I'm real happy for you too. I hope you're having a large grad party! You deserve it!


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## Bafta1 (Sep 9, 2007)

A medieval historian, Jes???? Medieval Italian! Have you read La Divina Commedia? In Italiano? E' il mio libro preferito: "nel mezzo del cammin..." is such a wonderful opening, no? The letters after my name are - BA (hons) MA MSt (Oxon). I'm into medieval Italian Jewish history.


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## William (Sep 9, 2007)

If you asked who took the longest time to get a degree then I think that I would be a winner 

William




ZainTheInsane said:


> Well, see, here's the thing, I'm wondering, particularly because I'm so freakin' nervous about having wasted my time. I mean, I've spent 5.5 years in college, and I honestly don't know if I've brought anything out of that experience. I just suppose I want to see what other people got degrees in, and what they're doing with them.
> 
> 
> snip


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## Michelle (Sep 9, 2007)

William - it took me almost 20 years to get my BS - bet I've got you beat. 



AnnMarie said:


> (quote pared down) I think my pride in getting my degree is a personal acheivement pride, much more so than it is about the classes or area of study (which is not at all related to my career). I have a degree (BS), and I'm very proud to have it because of the work I put in, the time I put in ... but college was a big accomplishment for me, as an adult. I did it all on my own. That is where the value of my degree becomes real to me - and when employers just want to see parchment, at least I have it.


 
AM, I feel the same way. I'm proud of mine too. I paid for 3/4 of it myself, taking out student loans and working full time while going to school at the same time. I was also married when I was finishing up and life got in the way many times where I'd have to drop out and start again.

I also think college broadened my mind in many ways. I had to take some core classes I wouldn't have taken otherwise due to university requirements. Humanities probably opened up the world to me more than any of the other classses I took even though the classes had nothing specifically to do with what I graduated in (my degree is in Business Management, though I started out as a Science Education major). The "experience" of college can teach one many things.

Not to mention, having the piece of paper opens up doors in the employment arena that would be closed otherwise, rightly or wrongly. For the nearly 20 working years before I got my degree, many doors were closed to me because of the lack of it. Because I was fully capable of doing the job I needed for promotion, the inability to get it because of not having the degree was extremely frustrating.

We all know that intelligence isn't measured by the degrees one holds and experience on the job is the most valuable education of all. It's just that now days, to get a decent paying job that is satisfying, where you can get that experience, and where you are able to move up, in more cases than not a degree is necessary. Case in point - the experience I have for the past fifteen years is mostly in computers and accounting -- yet to get a job in either of those areas now requires a degree in that specific area.

I know -- blah blah blah.


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## butch (Sep 9, 2007)

Maybe this should be the start of a different thread (in Hyde Park no less), but I'll put it here anyway.

IMO, the problem with college today is that it shouldn't just be about paying a place to give you a degree and some training so you can get a job. If that is all college is, then no wonder so many people disdain their degrees or the importance of a college education.

Colleges/Universities are about learning first and foremost. You want to get the most out of your degree? You want to be happy with your college experience even if you never get a job in the field your degree is in? You want to not mind too much when you have to pay your student loans off? Then go into the experience looking forward to being in a community of people who take knowledge, debate, curiosity, analysis, creativity, expressiveness, a commitment to betterment and a commitment to other people seriously. Otherwise, you're missing out on the best parts of college (besides the friendships and the parties, of course).

I'm not being blase about the importance a college degree holds in our society, and realise that it is impractical for many to not attend college if they want to have a middle-class lifestyle, but I do think if one goes into college with a mindset of trying to find the most joy out of their experiences in the classroom, then the more they'll get out of college, and I truly believe they'll become better employees in whatever they end up doing after college.

A good college education creates better thinkers, and better thinkers are better problem solvers, better at communicating new ideas in the workplace, better at brainstorming better ideas for their work place, and better able to utilize the data that their business uses. And these skills aren't taught under some specialized degree program-they're taught as part of a general humanities-based undergraduate education. So if you love Romantic poetry, major in creative writing, even if you end up working in an insurance company. If you want to be a doctor or a lawyer, then get a BA in english or history or philosophy, since both careers in particular need to learn about ethics, and all of those degrees teach ethics and humanist principles. The bottom line is, college is about finding the joy in learning, not about 'getting a job.' One flows from the other, yes, but particularly for those of you in the 18-23 age range, enjoy those college years without the threat of the rest of your working life breathing down your back, and college won't be something you regret later.

Also, so many of us know people who are super smart who don't have college degrees because those people still find joy in learning, and while I do agree that one doesn't need college to learn or to be intelligent, I do think the environment of the classroom, where ideas are exchanged among others 'on the same page' is something very hard to replicate outside of school. Often my best ideas come out of either classroom discussion or in a written assignment I would have otherwise not done on my own. And where else are you going to have a receptive audience to your insight or analysis of the subject matter than in a classroom, whether we're talking other student's comments, or the teacher's written comments on your assignments?

For those that know me, they know that I am very much into encouraging people to go to college, because I know first hand how college can change your life-not in terms of job advancement or economic benefit, but in the way it changes you as a person, the way you see the world, the way you see yourself, and the hope and possibility it grants you in managing your own life, as well as the larger world you have a part in. If I recall my ancient philosophy correctly, the premise of democracy (as it was practiced in Greece) is one that requires an educated and engaged population in order for it to function properly, so if nothing else, we might say we have a duty as democratic citizens to be as educated as possible.

Lecture over, there will be no quiz on this material,


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## BigBeautifulMe (Sep 9, 2007)

Butch,
You'd love Smith, then. It's definitely a liberal-arts education. They refuse to teach anything "vocational" (even things like journalism) because it's not about theory and learning to think. I loved Smith (even though I wished I could have taken journalism classes, I understood the principle of the thing), and, oh look, I got my dream job, anyway, without having taken any. Why? Because they knew that with a great liberal arts eduction, which I have, I can handle anything they throw at me!


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## butch (Sep 9, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Butch,
> You'd love Smith, then. It's definitely a liberal-arts education. They refuse to teach anything "vocational" (even things like journalism) because it's not about theory and learning to think. I loved Smith (even though I wished I could have taken journalism classes, I understood the principle of the thing), and, oh look, I got my dream job, anyway, without having taken any. Why? Because they knew that with a great liberal arts eduction, which I have, I can handle anything they throw at me!



Yes, I'm sure I would have loved Smith (and have enjoyed meeting people with a Smith connection, you included!), and do sometimes wish I had the opportunity to have attended a small liberal arts college. 

Thanks for proving my point, BBM! Dream Jobs rock, don't they?


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## William (Sep 9, 2007)

Hi Michelle

I have you beat!! by 5+ years, for 20 years I had a job where everyone assumed that I had a degree 

William






Michelle said:


> William - it took me almost 20 years to get my BS - bet I've got you beat.


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## Jes (Sep 10, 2007)

butch said:


> Yes, I'm sure I would have loved Smith (and have enjoyed meeting people with a Smith connection, you included!), and do sometimes wish I had the opportunity to have attended a small liberal arts college.
> 
> Thanks for proving my point, BBM! Dream Jobs rock, don't they?



I can picture you teaching at Smith, butchie! and me visiting! We could cavort. I'm big on cavorting.


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## BigBeautifulMe (Sep 10, 2007)

Um, I want in on the cavorting. Oh, and as a Smith alumna, i can audit classes for free. Prepare to be audited, Butchie.    LOL


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## Tad (Sep 10, 2007)

butch said:


> For those that know me, they know that I am very much into encouraging people to go to college, because I know first hand how college can change your life-not in terms of job advancement or economic benefit, but in the way it changes you as a person, the way you see the world, the way you see yourself, and the hope and possibility it grants you in managing your own life, as well as the larger world you have a part in. If I recall my ancient philosophy correctly, the premise of democracy (as it was practiced in Greece) is one that requires an educated and engaged population in order for it to function properly, so if nothing else, we might say we have a duty as democratic citizens to be as educated as possible.
> 
> Lecture over, there will be no quiz on this material,



*applause*

Now, in the spirit of discussion....

Learning always expands how we can think, and changes how we think. Learning a new language, learning how to bake, traveling to a new place, theyll all have this effect. The particular thing about college is that it is a sustained event lasting four or more years, usually done at a still very formative age. Going into the army for four years at the same age will also expand your experiences and change how you think and approach things.

However, for one who likes the discourse of ideas, of course the changes wrought by college are going to seem preferable. Sending people through a liberal arts college program helps to change them in such a ones image, and how could that be a bad thing? In all seriousness, dont almost all of us wish that people would approach the world a bit more like we do? 

Of course, not everyone is ever really going to appreciate a discourse of ideas. This is where colleges with a stronger vocational component have value, I thinkthey are something of a cultural Trojan Horse. We tell people go to college so you can get a good job, and in so doing lure in many people who only want to do well in the world as it exists, and have no real interest in questioning it or changing itbut then expose them to four years of looking at why things are the way they are, what it means, different thoughts about how it could be, and force them to write things examining all of that. Some of them will be mentally impermeable, but in many some of it will stick. Sometimes it means that it gives better mental tools to people who frankly oppose the exploration of new ideas, but I think that is far outweighed by the number of people who learn to question, at least a little bit.

Without doubt, Id love it if everyone was interested in learning and discussing new things, and were eager to go to college and take part in those discussions. But given that not everyone is that way, I think it is better to bring more people through college even if it does not excite them, than to only take the ones who have the mental thirst that college can best sake.

And then there is the question of non-liberal-arts studies. In short, Id say knowledge of how the world works on a physical and mathematical level is both too rare in North America, and frankly not valued very highly. Personally I think that is extremely dangerous for a culture. People studying science, math, or engineering also learn knew things and learn new ways to think about the world and approach problems. This is probably the wrong spot to go into a more detailed discussion of this, but maybe in another thread, another day, it would be interesting to discuss this part more.

I want to emphasize the applause at the beginning of my post. I thought what you said was excellent, and Im in absolute agreement with about 90% of it. Im quibbling with the last ten percent, not to say it was wrong, but that I think it could be better 

-Ed


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## butch (Sep 10, 2007)

Very good points, Ed. I don't disagree with you, and you're right, a liberal arts education isn't 'for' everyone, but I think all post-secondary educational institutions (except for the most specialized of vocational schools) require a base of humanities-oriented classes. I went to a large state University, and their mission is much different from Smith College (a small liberal arts college), but both schools have a core curriculum that I would label 'humanities' because it requires all students to take a writing course, a literature/culture course, a history/social sciences course, a mathematical course, a science course, a foreign language course, and even sometimes courses like speech, physical education, or internships. 

I think this is important for the psych major, the mechanical engineering major, and the lit major alike. I say this as someone who is a documented failure at math (remedial math classes in college, appalling SAT and GRE math scores), it is important for me to have at least some understanding of advanced mathematics, even if I never use them in my life. And so I do think that anyone who is willing to earn a BA, BS, or some other post-secondary degree should have this type of education, regardless of how specialized their subsequent career may be.

And, at the risk of sounding snobbish, if someone isn't interested in the exchange of ideas, of learning how to expand their mental horizons and learning the value of knowledge, and of participating in a community of ideas, then I wish there was a better alternative for them in terms of vocational schools, apprenticeship programs, or other arrangements that get those individuals the training and skills they need in their field without having to feel that a BA or a BS is their only option for a decent paying job. Considering how much college costs, sometimes I think the insistence that 'everyone' needs a college degree to succeed is a 'gate keeper' function to keep less affluent people poor.

I'm looking at my student loan forms right now, and 2 years in a MA program has cost me about $55,000, and that figure will only grow as I'm deferring my payment until I finish school. I'm also entering a very competitive field where many people start out making under $20,000 a year with a graduate degree, so I'm not speaking of some ivory tower platitudes without an understanding of the real world economies of post-secondary education when I privilege the humanities and/or liberal arts importance of a college education. I say it because I believe it to be one of the most invigorating things one can do-to actively participate in the world of the mind, of the cultivation and exchange of ideas, and to learn how to be an incisive thinker, clear writer, and insightful reader.

In many ways, lots of us here are replicating that kind of intellectual world, when we debate, share, and inform each other of stuff both within the fat community and the larger world. The message board is the salon of the 21st century, isn't it?


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## Jes (Sep 10, 2007)

butch said:


> The message board is the salon of the 21st century, isn't it?



yes, but not enough of the guys are wearing those tight pants with prince alberts, and the fainting couch isn't within easy reach.


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## BigBeautifulMe (Sep 10, 2007)

Erm, uh, I'm agreeing with 99% of what butch just said. One tiny, truly moot point though, that I think is kind of cool.

Smith has no "core curriculum." You have to take a certain number of credits outside your major - but no one tells you what they have to be. Lots of people like the freedom. Others think Smith SHOULD go to a core curriculum. I personally didn't care, as I came from a community college, where I had every kind of class anyway. lol. If you want latin honors at Smith, though, you have to satisfy all the distribution requirements, which means taking a certain number of credits in language, arts, math, etc.


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## ashmamma84 (Sep 10, 2007)

BigBeautifulMe said:


> Erm, uh, I'm agreeing with 99% of what butch just said. One tiny, truly moot point though, that I think is kind of cool.
> 
> Smith has no "core curriculum." You have to take a certain number of credits outside your major - but no one tells you what they have to be. Lots of people like the freedom. Others think Smith SHOULD go to a core curriculum. I personally didn't care, as I came from a community college, where I had every kind of class anyway. lol. If you want latin honors at Smith, though, you have to satisfy all the distribution requirements, which means taking a certain number of credits in language, arts, math, etc.



I'll be honest -- sometimes I wish I had that sort of freedom, but as per my major I don't really have time in my schedule to take some of the classes I want to...I'm always sort of envious of my friends that take Women and Gender Studies courses, because I would love to as I'm highly interested...but I always end having to take some sort of Psych or Bio/Chem class. I guess when I really think about it, I'm just more interested (now at least) in graduating and studying for the MCAT than anything...


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## cold comfort (Sep 11, 2007)

there's not too much to me, here ... but i'm thoroughly happy and proud of what i've been able to do.

i'll have my BA in Broadcast and Mass Communication by the end of November after I finish up my internship at the House of Blues doing promotions and marketing (double-minor in english writing and PR). i've also got my fcc license so i can do the whole radio DJ thing, too.

love my major and completely love my internship. i'm so happy to have gone this route and i think it'll work out great for me by new years. :wubu: 

as far as everyone's feelings on college/university ... i will say this: college is as very little or as very much as you make it out to be. pretty simple, completely true.


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## Tad (Sep 11, 2007)

butch said:


> I don't disagree with you, and you're right, a liberal arts education isn't 'for' everyone, but I think all post-secondary educational institutions (except for the most specialized of vocational schools) require a base of humanities-oriented classes.



I agree that some mix of courses is valuable. It sounds like your school was more exacting in that regard that most Canadian universities are. In engineering I had to take at least five non-technical courses, but there were no more firm requirements as to what they should be (as it happened I took a fair variety, totaling seven, as I took a couple of correspondence courses during work terms, giving me some slack. Two of my Management Science courses counted as non-technical, I took introductory courses in german, anthropology, sociology, and psychology, and a course in children's literature. When I say course, these are one term (four month) courses). For my wife's history program they were not required to take any math or science courses at all, but I think she may have been required to take an introductory computing course (this was the early 90s, when they did not yet assume everyone knew how to use a word processor or spreadsheet).

Then again, I'm not sure that any canadian universities describe themselves as liberal arts schools. 



> And so I do think that anyone who is willing to earn a BA, BS, or some other post-secondary degree should have this type of education, regardless of how specialized their subsequent career may be.



I'm in complete and total agreement. 




> And, at the risk of sounding snobbish, if someone isn't interested in the exchange of ideas, of learning how to expand their mental horizons and learning the value of knowledge, and of participating in a community of ideas, then I wish there was a better alternative for them in terms of vocational schools, apprenticeship programs, or other arrangements that get those individuals the training and skills they need in their field without having to feel that a BA or a BS is their only option for a decent paying job.



I'm mixed in my feelings here. I think vocational training is undervalued, and I think that is unfortunate. At the same time I think that just because you are training to be a chef, electrician, or whatever you are not interested in and need exposure to a variety of ideas and how to discuss them. Here if you go to a community college you are required to take a variety of courses, but the impression I get is that they are run a bit more like high school--learn this thing--than the college like "here is information for you, what will you do with it?" The latter is certain more efficient, and lets you make sure that people have absorbed at least something, but I don't know that it does as much to make people think, or practice thinking about different things.



> I'm looking at my student loan forms right now, and 2 years in a MA program has cost me about $55,000, and that figure will only grow as I'm deferring my payment until I finish school.



Yikes! Makes me so very happy that I was willing to stay in Canada for education. Although tuitions here have risen a lot since I was in school, they are at least nothing like at american private colleges yet. It does bother me if it is private institutions, which are more expensive, that are always considered the elite institutions--because of course that does tend to favor the family of those who have already 'made it' and can more easily afford those fees. Reduction of class mobility is a bad thing, on so many fronts, from my POV.



> I say it because I believe it to be one of the most invigorating things one can do-to actively participate in the world of the mind, of the cultivation and exchange of ideas, and to learn how to be an incisive thinker, clear writer, and insightful reader.



I think hard intellectual work, really using your knowledge, abilities, and skills, is always invigorating. I see the design teams as they approach tape out on products with millions of transistors, that are going to require a million dollars of tooling to get back the first samples, and you can see the intellectual rush they are as they aim to make it all function perfectly the first time--and be better than the product of our competitors' design teams. It is vastly different than the academic environment of debate, but still very invigorating.



> In many ways, lots of us here are replicating that kind of intellectual world, when we debate, share, and inform each other of stuff both within the fat community and the larger world. The message board is the salon of the 21st century, isn't it?



Nicely said! And I agree--that is why I keep coming back here, even that means shoving my virtual foot in mouth frequently. I know I may be sometimes boring or annoying or unwelcome, but then you get opportunities to really exchange ideas, and it makes up for all the bull in the china shop feelings.

Regards;

-Ed


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## butch (Sep 11, 2007)

Nothing to add to your incisive post, Ed. Thanks for the debate and exchange of ideas, as always. I don't think this salon could run without you.


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## liz (di-va) (Sep 11, 2007)

I was lucky. Really lucky, and I don't take it for granted, in that my parents sent us to liberal arts schools and let us have four years to just learn. It was slightly tyrannical in that I don't think I had a choice but to do so, but I know how lucky I was, especially as I emerged without debt, and in four years.

Another reason I was lucky? I escaped the East Coast. I think--in my case--it helped prevent parochialism and insularity. Going to a really good college that existed--physically--out of the long line of schools in the East was a huge gift. It's just different. The emphasis was on different things in some inevitable ways in every discipline. I wouldn't say the school didn't veer into snobby, but it was tempered with a lot of midwestern self-effacement. 

Another reason I don't take it for granted/consider myself lucky? I got put on academic probation my freshman year, due to (a long of list of things that add up to) Slack.  I slid on into college from high school and thought I could fake my way through things... Wrong. I never took grades for granted after that. One could argue that I learned to fake my way through things, just at a different level (hah), but still, I learned some seriously good lessons from this.


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## Santaclear (Sep 11, 2007)

I really have quite a degree. :batting:


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## Admiral_Snackbar (Sep 11, 2007)

I preface this by saying that I have known people with high school diplomas who were geniuses, for whom college would be nothing more than a colossal bore. Take the Will Hunting approach: You dropped a 150K on a fucking education you could have gotten for a $1.50 in late chaages at the public library. Is such a thing bankable? Not often. Then again, three of the wealthiest men in the world never finished college. Self-made is self-made, regardless of education. The head of Pfizer started out with a B.S. in Biology, went back for his MBA and now runs one of the largest companies of it's type in the world. That being said, there are people I went to high school with that make very fine divan-inspection engineers and are lucky to still be able to figure out the pop top on a soda can.

Secondly, I've met Ph.Ds and M.D.s who I wouldn't trust to make me a cup of coffee. I've known graduate students, male and female who fucked their way to an MS or doctorate and coasted through their careers on good looks and stealing the hard work of others. The little lambskin role embossed with your name does not make you a _de facto _expert: experience and time do.

Thirdly, there are people who are educated on a level where I don't feel I have enough brains to power the growth of their pinky nail. My best friend the polymath knows a dozen computer languages and can attack ANY subject (mental or physical) and master it in a matter of weeks whereas my feeble mortal skills can barely scratch the surface. He built a bunk bed/computer desk for his son that would make Norm Abram shit walnut golf balls. I doubt the fact I can run circles around him in spelling matters one rat fart.

Even still, my current roster of accolades: overeducated and underpaid - 

B.S. Biomedical Sciences (pre-med)
M.S. Biochemistry and Toxicology
B.S. Computer Science (Information Systems)


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## Michelle (Sep 18, 2007)

liz (di-va) said:


> Another reason I don't take it for granted/consider myself lucky? I got put on academic probation my freshman year, due to (a long of list of things that add up to) Slack.  I slid on into college from high school and thought I could fake my way through things... Wrong. I never took grades for granted after that. One could argue that I learned to fake my way through things, just at a different level (hah), but still, I learned some seriously good lessons from this.


 
I'm SOO glad to hear this. I was on academic probation my first semester too. Never had to study in high school and faked it too. And then when I went away to school, I much preferred the college social life to studying and showing up to class and tests. I ended up with a 1.9 gpa that first semester. I'm sitting here smiling at your revelation, Lizzy.


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## Michelle (Sep 18, 2007)

Santaclear said:


> I really have quite a degree. :batting:


 
It's three degrees sideways, right?


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## babyjeep21 (Sep 18, 2007)

Bachelor of Arts in English with a minor in Literature

And now, I'm working on Secondary Education, with an emphasis on Language Arts...

THEN, I want to get my Master of Education Administration.

I want to be the big mean lady who walks around hallways and shakes a paddle at high school students.


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## sweetnnekked (Sep 18, 2007)

I'm just an ant's hair short of an Associates Degree in Culinary Arts! I will never complete it.


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## CrazyGuy13 (Sep 18, 2007)

Currently at Penn State Majoring in Economics and minoring in History.


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## la serenissima (Sep 18, 2007)

This is such a great thread! Upon reading it, I feel members are so much more fleshed out (how apt...)

I'm so envious of all the posters who have English degrees and history and language. I was fortunate enough to attend a small liberal arts college and majored in arts administration, when I would have been so much happier -- and successful -- in musicology. Or theatre.

I also fell victim to a disatrous first semester, though can't say enough about the import of going away to school as part of the maturation process. That said, I live near NYU and can't believe how young 18 is and how these kids are allowed out past curfew, to say noting of alone in New York City! 

Seven years later I received my masters in public administration in nonprofit management and while I'm so proud of how hard I worked, I wish I had the guts to get a degree in history -- pragmatism be damned.

I'll also add that all of my schooling save grad school was private, and I can't say enough about my public university. The education and faculty were second to none and I'm grateful that since I didn't get and MBA or a JD, I won't be saddled with debt.

Finally, my fiancee doesn't have a degree. It kept us a part for some time because our backgrounds were so different even though we were so in love. But part of maturing, too, is seeing past such differences. And yes, he makes more money than me and is spooky smart.

Youth is wasted on the young. We learn these things the hard way!


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## Fuzzy (Sep 18, 2007)

BS of CompSci, Utah State University, Class of '96.


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## liz (di-va) (Sep 19, 2007)

Michelle said:


> I'm SOO glad to hear this. I was on academic probation my first semester too. Never had to study in high school and faked it too. And then when I went away to school, I much preferred the college social life to studying and showing up to class and tests. I ended up with a 1.9 gpa that first semester. I'm sitting here smiling at your revelation, Lizzy.



Yay fer flunking!  hehehe. Seriously! Was good for me.


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## Wayne_Zitkus (Sep 19, 2007)

No degree. But I do have a Diploma in Electronic Technology from the DeVry Technical Institute in Union, NJ (now DeVry University in North Brunswick). With that, I worked as an electronic technician for ten years before I became a technical writer 24 years ago.


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## Jes (Sep 19, 2007)

Bafta1 said:


> A medieval historian, Jes???? Medieval Italian! Have you read La Divina Commedia? In Italiano? E' il mio libro preferito: "nel mezzo del cammin..." is such a wonderful opening, no? The letters after my name are - BA (hons) MA MSt (Oxon). I'm into medieval Italian Jewish history.



side-by-side translation. I don't speak italian, sadly.
what do you make of the mi ritrovai controversy, btw? Know the original title of Dante's work? And why it's a comedy? oh, i miss those days... i had a great instructor, just 3 students, spending months reading inferno. Talk about immersion!


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