# Revisiting ... the FFA guilt issue



## agouderia (Oct 8, 2017)

We've discussed this topic here and there over the years, but I haven't found any thread with a focus on this question in the past 5 years, so maybe a fresh start.

The day before yesterday I had one of these aha-moments. 
I did some errands by bike, ending at the supermarket - where I locked the bike at the half-concealed bike stand, from where I can easily overlook the remote side of the parking lot.

There I saw him - a SSBHM who had just finished loading his car and was now struggling to re-adjust his pants. It was utterly fascinating for me to watch: He was very broad, long torso, but with an over-proportionally large, wonderfully blubbery belly.

Because the belly was so broad, long and deep, he couldn't fully reach his waistband with the belt. He had the belt pulled, but struggled to get to the buckle to fasten it. So he'd grab under his belly that quivered like crazy, wildly jiggling fat overflowing his arms to try and fasten the buckle some notches tighter. And didn't succeed, the wobbling gut bouncing downwards heavily as he ended one attempt. 
This spectacle continued for about 6-7 attempts, until he have up, held the pants with his hands as he got into the car.

There wasn't the issue of being invasive or staring, as he couldn't see me from where I was standing, observing him sideways.

Nevertheless, I felt incredibly guilty in that moment, that I was watching him struggle, actually enjoying having all my fetish buttons pushed.

Admittedly this comes in a time where I find coming to Dims more and more depressing - look at the many obituaries we've had here lately. Almost all of supersize women and men, all at an age where death should not yet be on the agenda.

This has been increasingly rummaging through my mind, that there mostly likely only is health up to a certain size - and that those of us to take pleasure in extremer size might contribute to harming or enabling self-harm of others.
Not a new observation or doubt, but one which for me has been blaring pretty loudly of late.


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## Dr. Feelgood (Oct 8, 2017)

agouderia said:


> This has been increasingly rummaging through my mind, that there mostly likely only is health up to a certain size - and that those of us to take pleasure in extremer size might contribute to harming or enabling self-harm of others.
> Not a new observation or doubt, but one which for me has been blaring pretty loudly of late.



I think the question has to be, "Am I _knowingly_ contributing to the harm of others?" Simply feeling or expressing admiration or affection for another person is not directly harmful to him or her. As long as you don't encourage that person --directly pr indirectly -- to do something you believe will be detrimental to his/her welfare, there is no cause for guilt.: you're not responsible for the actions of another. But you -- and I, and every other moral agent -- are responsible _to_ others for the way we behave.

Let me draw a parallel. In Thailand, Buddhist monks are allowed to eat one meal a day, for which they beg. They go through town with an empty bowl, and householders contribute whatever food they can spare by putting it in the bowl. The monks have taken a vow not to kill or encourage others to kill, but they are allowed to eat meat -- _provided that the animal was not killed especially for them_. Guilt is incurred by encouraging another to do something harmful solely for one's own benefit. My 2 cents, anyway.


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## loopytheone (Oct 8, 2017)

This is something I've wrestled with a lot myself, not gonna lie. Especially as my ex and his mum were super sized and also in poor health (I believe his mum was in her late 50s when she died). 

I have a similar issue with my current partner; my FA instincts are constantly wanting me to fatten him up, but at the same time he has health issues that would be made worse by that and so doesn't want to. I've learnt to separate my feelings from any logical decisions, making sure that although he knows I would find it incredibly hot in theory, in practise, his sadness and ill health would more than outweigh that so it isn't something I actually want in reality. At the same time, you can't help what you feel and feelings don't have to be reasonable or logical. But like Dr.Feelgood said, you can control your actions. 

I still feel guilty a lot, all that said. One of the reasons I always look for an FA partner is because then I know they understand first hand how I feel and what I mean. They are going to find their own struggles hot as well as frustrating and that makes it a lot more bearable/enjoyable for me to watch.


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## AmyJo1976 (Oct 8, 2017)

loopytheone said:


> I still feel guilty a lot, all that said. One of the reasons I always look for an FA partner is because then I know they understand first hand how I feel and what I mean. They are going to find their own struggles hot as well as frustrating and that makes it a lot more bearable/enjoyable for me to watch.


 
But that scenario is going to cause you to have to fatten up yourself lil miss (not a bad thing).


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## loopytheone (Oct 8, 2017)

AmyJo1976 said:


> But that scenario is going to cause you to have to fatten up yourself lil miss (not a bad thing).



I've gained nearly 30 lbs in the year and a half we've been together, yeah!


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## AmyJo1976 (Oct 8, 2017)

loopytheone said:


> I've gained nearly 30 lbs in the year and a half we've been together, yeah!


 
Sounds amazing! enjoy girl!


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## ODFFA (Oct 8, 2017)

I'm editing out my previous comment because, in hindsight, it was probably too laden with shame, mostly towards myself. I especially don't want to cause unintentional shame-by-association for any of the gorgeous BHMs / BBWs here. 

Poor emotional judgement on my part, sorry guys. It's not been easy to keep things in check online since I have to repress so much IRL. (With my family & friends, not with Mr S. He knows me inside out and I've never known such support :wubu: )

For better or worse, my brain will have FFA inclinations 'til the day I die. All I can do is enjoy that as responsibly as possible and take each day as it comes.


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## dwesterny (Oct 12, 2017)

Have to agree with feelgood. If you're enjoying someone as they naturally are without interceding there is nothing really wrong there. I'm an adult capable of choosing how I want to live my life and aware of the consequences to my decisions. What I found more troubling is a few FFAs I know into guys my size (500s) who start dating someone in the 300 range who never heard of FFAs, the guy is thrilled to be dating someone he used to think out of his league, never interacted with a woman interested in his body type in his life and lo and behold the guy "wants" to gain weight to get to the womans preferred size for a guy. I know more than one woman in this type of relationship and I find it morally questionable. Even if they're not directly telling him they want him to gain to 500 lbs you can tell they've made it clear to them they would be happier if he were even fatter. That's the kind of situation where you have to worry about the power dynamic in the relationship (fat guy desperate to hold on to that woman who is out of his league).


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## loopytheone (Oct 12, 2017)

dwesterny said:


> Have to agree with feelgood. If you're enjoying someone as they naturally are without interceding there is nothing really wrong there. I'm an adult capable of choosing how I want to live my life and aware of the consequences to my decisions. What I found more troubling is a few FFAs I know into guys my size (500s) who start dating someone in the 300 range who never heard of FFAs, the guy is thrilled to be dating someone he used to think out of his league, never interacted with a woman interested in his body type in his life and lo and behold the guy "wants" to gain weight to get to the womans preferred size for a guy. I know more than one woman in this type of relationship and I find it morally questionable. Even if they're not directly telling him they want him to gain to 500 lbs you can tell they've made it clear to them they would be happier if he were even fatter. That's the kind of situation where you have to worry about the power dynamic in the relationship (fat guy desperate to hold on to that woman who is out of his league).



This pretty much sums up my relationship with my ex, tbh. I tried so, so hard to make him understand that I wasn't out of his league and he didn't need to do anything to 'get' or keep me but it never seemed to get through to him. It's honestly one of the main things that broke the relationship apart in the end. It's seems to be a variation on the classic behaviour of an insecure person doing anything to please their partner and I think it is something the guy has to work on on his own before really being ready for a long term relationship. 

For the record, though I'm one of the FFA that loves guys your size Dwes, I'm currently with somebody that is only about 250 lbs and he's perfect as he is. And thankfully secure enough in himself to know that he doesn't have to double in size to be good enough for me. (He has 0 interests in gaining weight and that is absolutely fine by me).


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## Anjula (Oct 13, 2017)

I always felt weird about supersize guys. I could never ever get serious with someone over 350 because of the health issue. My bf is just 250, 32% body fat and I’m stressing over like hell. There is a guy in my life I’ve loved for almost a decade and he knows perfectly well that my biggest issue is his 500lbs+ body. So I kinda blocked guys that big from my sexuality. I used to love supersized guys but somehow the fear of them dying made it really creepy and unappealing so these days my idea of supersize is no bigger than 350. 

The worst thing about it all is when you’re an fa and the fat is a turn on the fat person doesn’t feel the pressure/need to lose weight so he’s really just getting bigger and you’re torn between your treacherous pussy and your worries about his weight


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## Tad (Oct 13, 2017)

I think most relationships can build some degree of guilt. Did they put her career on the backburner to let me focus on mine? My libido doesn't match my partners, would they be happier with a better match? I spend more time with friends than they do, am I being neglectful? They used to do more sports, is spending more time with me making them less healthy than they would be otherwise? I'm not as turned on by my partner as I feel I should be, is our sex life worse than it could be if I could just make myself be more turned on by them? Etc.

Not trying to question the particular guilt that can come from being an FA, or that FFA may feel it more and/or differently than do male FA. Just pointing out that being a good human being (but not being a perfect saint) always comes with its share of guilt.


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## dwesterny (Oct 13, 2017)

Anjula said:


> I always felt weird about supersize guys. I could never ever get serious with someone over 350 because of the health issue. My bf is just 250, 32% body fat and I’m stressing over like hell. There is a guy in my life I’ve loved for almost a decade and he knows perfectly well that my biggest issue is his 500lbs+ body. So I kinda blocked guys that big from my sexuality. I used to love supersized guys but somehow the fear of them dying made it really creepy and unappealing so these days my idea of supersize is no bigger than 350.
> 
> The worst thing about it all is when you’re an fa and the fat is a turn on the fat person doesn’t feel the pressure/need to lose weight so he’s really just getting bigger and you’re torn between your treacherous pussy and your worries about his weight


If you're that stressed about someone 250 you might have a level of concern that isn't precisely rational. Also I'm not thrilled with you calling attraction to people my size "creepy".


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## ODFFA (Oct 13, 2017)

dwesterny said:


> If you're that stressed about someone 250 you might have a level of concern that isn't precisely rational. Also I'm not thrilled with you calling attraction to people my size "creepy".



I have seen (F)FAs be called horrible things for their attraction even to smaller-sized people. It's hard not to internalise that sometimes. My ex once called me an advocate of heart attacks or something. I didn't register the exact phrase, I was so shocked. And he himself used to be a BHM. 

I've often had the fear at the back of my mind that my future partner would one day come to resent my attraction, even if he embraced it at first. BHMs understandably internalise a lot of the shit they get for their size, too. So I think people who are as open & accepting of it as you are, are somewhat rare. And people who _enjoy_ their size (especially sexually) are even rarer. It's just complicated territory all around. Not just in (F)FA circles, as Tad rightly pointed out.

I don't think Ajula necessarily _meant_ to insult people of your size. She is attracted to them after all. But that was the effect, despite her intentions, and I can see how it would've stung. We're just trying to harmoniously reconcile our love for your bodies with our love for you as people, and it's not always smooth sailing.


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## fuelingfire (Oct 14, 2017)

I am very aware of the FA guilt. From my healthcare knowledge and coming from friends/family that exercise daily. It’s not the happiest thing to think about, but it’s in the back of my mind.

I am really generalizing here. Rationalizing often feels like a balancing act.

Despite only wanting to have a fat partner, I am always supportive if my partner (and with past partners) wants to take efforts to be healthier. Which usually means attempting weight loss. Largely due to the guilt I would have.

Losing weight in general is very difficult, and requires constant effort. People who achieve it, want to lose weight badly. Trying to get someone to lose weight who doesn’t want to, is mostly a waste of time. Sort of like trying to get an addict to quit who doesn’t want to. At the same time I am complicit by not slapping junk food out of her hands, but if I wasn’t around she would still be eating the junk food.

I don’t have an ideal size for a partner. I always wonder how some people can do see an exact size as their limit. However, if there are serious mobility issues or health issues, that is where there is a clearer line of where my high end cut off is.


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## Anjula (Oct 16, 2017)

dwesterny said:


> If you're that stressed about someone 250 you might have a level of concern that isn't precisely rational. Also I'm not thrilled with you calling attraction to people my size "creepy".



I never said it’s creepy, I’ve said it made it creepy to ME. In a way that I’m worried youre gonna die at 30 because you’re not gonna do anything about your weight because you know it turns me on. I’m not sure you can understand that. I’ve dated guys your size Dwest. Darien is my ultimate BAE and he’s probably bigger than you.if you ask him he’ll tell you I nag him all the time about exercising and eating healthy because I love him and I want him to have a long a healthy life. At the same time i droll over him sexy body because he’s a gorgeous SSBHM. I AM attracted to people your size. I am just so paranoid I can’t date them without making their and mine life hell full of diets and guilt. So don’t take it personal. You’re a hottie but I don’t treat people like pieces of meat. I am sorry if I’ve sounded offensive. Didn’t mean that. You can dump it on English not being my first language  try voicing your opinion about such a delicate topic in polish hehehe 

And yes I am that stressed about someone who weights 250 because I know a lot about medicine and health. My uni course covers a lot of med, my professors are doctors, I listen daily about heart diseases, cancers and other horrible things and I am exposed to a great deal of data that clearly shows that obesity is linked with a lot of that. I know it’s more complicated than that and it’s mostly about the food you eat but I am the type of person that worries a lot. So I worry about someone who I care about.


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## Tad (Oct 16, 2017)

A thought for Anjula in particular, but also for everyone on the guilt front. Think too about the cost of the concern. 

As analogies, in statistics you can take measures with your analysis to reduce your chance of getting a false positive result ... but this increases your chance of a false-negative. In business you have to consider the return you might earn on an investment, but also the 'opportunity cost' of everything you can't do with that money while it is tied up.

I don't have a phrase for it, but there is something similar in relationships (and even in our own lives). When you put a lot of focus in one area -- no matter how worthy and worthwhile it may be -- it means you don't have as much time and energy for other areas, and in more extreme cases it can stop you from enjoying those other parts of life. 
- Financial security is great, but if you spend all your time and energy on making money, or if you refuse to spend on anything not completely essential, you miss out on a lot of chances to enjoy yourself. 
- Being able to trust your partner is important, but if you put too much time into monitoring them and getting them to avoid situations where you feel worried about trusting them you both miss a chance at enjoying things and can make them feel untrusted. 
-Health and a long life together are obviously important, but so is the quality of life that you have together. 
- Pushing your kids to do well in school is good, but taken too far you risk them feeling that nothing they do is good enough, and risk them losing sight of what else interests them and brings them joy.
- In general doing the 'right thing' is great, but in trying to do so you can miss a lot of decent things or even miss the opportunity to do the right thing altogether.

Of course, all of this can be a lot harder to moderate if you are prone to anxiety. But it doesn't take a clinical case of anxiety for people to take any one area to what is arguably too far.


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## ODFFA (Oct 16, 2017)

Tad said:


> A thought for Anjula in particular, but also for everyone on the guilt front. Think too about the cost of the concern.
> 
> As analogies, in statistics you can take measures with your analysis to reduce your chance of getting a false positive result ... but this increases your chance of a false-negative. In business you have to consider the return you might earn on an investment, but also the 'opportunity cost' of everything you can't do with that money while it is tied up.
> 
> ...



All out of rep, dammit! You framed this viewpoint perfectly. I've thought about the cost of concern before, but not quite in these terms, and it's very refreshing.

In that vein -- and I don't want to make any empty promises here, buuuut.... I've been considering writing a new BHM/FFA story. I suspect it could help a _lot _with several of my issues right now if I employ it well. Especially with curbing the guilt. The writing and reading of (F)FA stories can do wonders for that. Surely I'm not the only one who's discovered this.


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## dwesterny (Oct 16, 2017)

Again this is where I differentiate actively encouraging weight gain in an already very big person from simply accepting someone as they are. The idea that just by being with them you're somehow complicit in their fatness is bunk. It's fine to say you don't want to date someone over a certain size because the downsides are too much for you. That's a you issue and its your choice. But the idea that simply by giving affection and intimacy you're doing fat person a disservice by validating their lifestyle is narcissism and denies the agency of fat people.


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## BigChaz (Oct 16, 2017)

Every donut I've put in my mouth has been on purpose


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## Dr. Feelgood (Oct 16, 2017)

Anjula said:


> Darien is my ultimate BAE and hes probably bigger than you.if you ask him hell tell you I nag him all the time about exercising and eating healthy because I love him and I want him to have a long a healthy life. At the same time i droll over him sexy body because hes a gorgeous SSBHM.
> I am the type of person that worries a lot. So I worry about someone who I care about.



Me, too. And, in very subtle ways, our whole culture urges us to do this: we are continually told to think about and plan for the future, to sacrifice today for possible happiness tomorrow. Of course, we have to make some sort of contingency plans, but we can never know what tomorrow will bring: it isn't anything we can control. What we DO have is today, and I urge you to focus -- as much as you can, for a worrier -- on your happiness right now and how good it feels. Don't try to hold on to it or force it to stay, because you can't: just love now and let tomorrow take care of tomorrow. It may go against your nature, but if you "fake it 'til you make it" your outlook will eventually relax a little. It has worked for me, anyway. I wish you happiness.


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## fuelingfire (Oct 16, 2017)

dwesterny said:


> The idea that just by being with them you're somehow complicit in their fatness is bunk.



I don't really want to make a huge argument over it, but I see this as a moral grey area. If you have a partner who passes away at an age much younger than normal, and the cause is exacerbated by being some level of obese. It's normal to start pondering, "what if?"

You can argue that person would have been fat anyways, and that's probably true.

My point of view being, I am a weightlifter whose body looks the way it does due to my workouts and what I eat. My tag line, We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence is therefore not an act, but a habit. Aristotle

If you see a potential problem but do nothing to change it or prevent it, you are being complicit. My point still being it's a moral grey area.


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## dwesterny (Oct 16, 2017)

fuelingfire said:


> I don't really want to make a huge argument over it, but I see this as a moral grey area. If you have a partner who passes away at an age much younger than normal, and the cause is exacerbated by being some level of obese. It's normal to start pondering, "what if?"
> 
> You can argue that person would have been fat anyways, and that's probably true.
> 
> ...



I find the idea that if someone dates me and does not try to change who I am they are somehow responsible for or complicit in my lifestyle choices offensive and condescending.


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## Amaranthine (Oct 16, 2017)

I think there are a few perspectives to sort out here. 

1. When it comes to pursuing happiness vs. planning for future problems, there's the selfless aspect and the selfish aspect. 

Selfless = "I want this person to live a long life and I don't want to see them deal with unpleasant and/or life-threatening conditions that may come about due to their size." 

Selfish = "I am very attached to this person and, knowing the risks that can come along with being overweight, feel anxious knowing that MY time with them might be shortened." 

Even if you accept that someone has autonomy over their choices and can be properly responsible for what they do to their body, it's probably not going to help your more self-centered anxiety that you might have a lot less time with someone that you're planning your life around. People often consider smoking a deal breaker--I imagine partially for that reason--and there's not that much conflict because they're not ATTRACTED to smoking. It's a tough situation. 

2. I think the moral grayness of the situation can be highlighted by a comparison. Of course, this point will not apply to many people and I don't wish to offend merely by bringing it up. If someone was dating an anorexic or bulimic person, most would find it strange to accept them as they are and not at least suggest seeking treatment. The same could be said for alcoholism or drug addiction. In some cases, it could be said that someone who's overweight has a legitimate eating disorder/food addiction problem. And an FA might feel as if their admiration is justifying the continuation of food as a coping mechanism instead of guiding the person towards healthier habits with food. Sure, someone can say that it's their choice to use food in such ways--but it's still very not socially acceptable to accept that kind of answer when it comes to an anorexic. 

That being said...with a little cooking prowess and adventurousness, there are plenty of things an FA could do to promote healthiness without making someone's life less pleasant. Cook wholesome and nutritious but delicious and not really low-calorie meals. Go out walking more. Stretch together naked and have awesome sex after seeing how those rolls can squish in new ways. All small things that can be an enjoyable part of a relationship, but also chip away at sources of anxiety.


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## dwesterny (Oct 16, 2017)

Right, I have no problem with people suggesting exercise or healthier eating. The problem is when someone suggests acting on attraction to very fat people itself somehow is bad for us. Is it better to feel isolated and unworthy of affection? Maybe even being polite to us validates our fatness. Maybe selling me food makes you complicit too.


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## Amaranthine (Oct 16, 2017)

dwesterny said:


> Right, I have no problem with people suggesting exercise or healthier eating. The problem is when someone suggests acting on attraction to very fat people itself somehow is bad for us. Is the is it better to feel isolated and unworthy of affection?



Depends on the context of the attraction, I think. 

I've seen some shady cases where someone who is obviously lonely and miserable gets the attraction of a bunch of FAs online, gets money, feels validated, and gains when they otherwise would never have done so to continue getting that validation. Then there are clear lapses where they hate what they've done and try to go hard in the opposite direction...only to fail and head back to be the internet's fap material. I think those cases are pretty sad. 

On the flip side, getting a genuine relationship with a caring FA could help someone deal with the unpleasant mental stuff that causes some of their issues with food. And in that case, they're obviously better off. Feeling loved and accepted often leads to healthier physical and mental habits.


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## Tad (Oct 16, 2017)

Amaranthine, I don't know if that is intentional or not, but the way you wrote it sounds like you are assuming that the fat person has mental stuff that causes some of their issues with food? Which certainly could be the case .... but I don't think would always be the case?


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## Amaranthine (Oct 16, 2017)

Tad said:


> Amaranthine, I don't know if that is intentional or not, but the way you wrote it sounds like you are assuming that the fat person has mental stuff that causes some of their issues with food? Which certainly could be the case .... but I don't think would always be the case?



No, of course not. I was referring to the most problematic possible cases, in terms of guilt. I think cases where the person's relationship with food isn't that way are more clear cut, as one can defer to personal autonomy more readily.


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## dwesterny (Oct 16, 2017)

I do think it's fair to say most people who reach 500 lbs have some type of eating issues rooted in something less than pleasant.That doesn't mean I couldn't choose to get bariatric surgery or diet.


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## BigChaz (Oct 16, 2017)

If I get too fat for my partner's comfort for a variety of reasons like mobility, health, hobbies, etc, I am OK with them being concerned. It makes me happy to think someone would be concerned for me. I wish I had someone in my life like that right now!

It also goes the other way. If I've legit gotten too fat for my partner for whatever reason, then I want them to be happy and know they are loved too...so I'd drop the weight back to where they are happy / comfortable after we talked about it. It's not like relationships happen in a vacuum. There would be discussions, understanding, etc.

Yeah, I'm greatly simplifying, but that's pretty much how I see it. "Oh I got so fat my girlfriend / wife is concerned or unhappy. Let's talk about it and resolve it."

Now onto the other topic of FA guilt. Feel guilty all you want for liking me fat. Just keep it to yourself and enjoy my belly. If you start to make me feel guilty about it, then I'll have an issue and we will deal with it. Ideally you won't feel guilty and you will just make me some brownies and juggle my moobs while we watch Stranger Things.


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## ashblonde (Oct 17, 2017)

I wasnt sure I would dip my toes into this, but reading through this thread made my brain swirl... Forgive the diatribe in advance, but I tend to write a lot when I write ;-)

I'm in the no-guilt column. I view it as a zero sum game. It never changed the way my brain works, and it wont change the people I admire.

However, the kind of relationship one is in (or maybe a relationship history) is such a factor too. So Im not saying guilt is a wrong thing to feel, I did once deal with guilt myself, mostly related to an old dysfunctional relationship situation that was saddled with insecurities and self-doubts (on both sides). But coming out the other side of that with my sanity intact seemed to make me feel more strongly that my preference is a gift and not a curse. Honestly (and sappily), this thread reinforces to me how incredibly lucky I feel that guilt/fear didnt keep me from being with someone I cant imagine my life without. 

Do I like some of the gain and food stuff? Sure. Do I surreptitiously admire other very big men too? Heck yes, Im no saint. But then theres real life and its just kind of normal. My guy knows I love his size, but he didnt just suddenly get an appetite when he learned that about me. And because Im very active, hes probably more active than he otherwise would be, yet he still stays just as fat, so

Im not in denial that a more extreme end of weight can impose discomfort and potential risks. But its also pretty clear, even within this thread, that everyone has a very different definition of what they think the point of unhealthy is with regards to weight. One guy can be 25 pounds over his preferred weight and be incredibly uncomfortable while another may weigh 400 and be perfectly happy in his own skin. But if we must assign some guilt, Id like to send a big dose over to the medical community (and diet industry), for encouraging repeated weight loss cycles that do more harm than good to the body and its metabolism over time; not to mention preventative health care avoidance because of lazy docs who weight-blame rather than diagnose. Up against that multi-billion dollar faction, baking the hubs a treat from time to time doesnt feel so unscrupulous.

Im all-in with Dwes on agency and I cringe at concern when it goes down the path of condescension. And dont we all take our own risks? I drive in aggressive city traffic knowing theres a chance that at some point I could get into an accident; and I run in places where the air quality isnt 100% great, I cycle on roads with inevitably dumb drivers, and I often travel to cities with high crime rates, and every one of them has had some kind of terrorist attack. I could change my lifestyle, job, whatever, and avoid those things, but Id rather just be thankful that what I have and what I do brings me happiness today.

Tads posts were also very wise, alluding to the universal truth that we are all imperfect humans and we bring those imperfections to our relationships regardless of the particulars. It seems healthier to just love who you love without unnecessary emotional burdens because life will always be too damn short.


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## FreeThinker (Oct 17, 2017)

You can cry because it's over, or smile because it happened. 

Or you can worry and feel guilty while it's still happening.

This third option tends to be my default position. This no doubt comes from an inflated ego that allows me to believe that all hardship and sorrow in the world is caused by me...'cause, you know, I'm just that powerful. 

The guilt is not constructive. 

Saying the guilt is not constructive is not constructive. 

I'm using a phone and a cell service **right now as I type this** that I paid for with money that could have gone to famine relief, medical treatment for the poor, or to a homeless shelter. 

I'm spending time **right now as I type this** expressing an opinion, when that time could have been used to sign an online petition, or to exercise, or to send a nice message to my mother. 



We all feel guilt. 

We all should. 


Some feel happiness along the way. 

We all should.


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## Melian (Oct 17, 2017)

I'm so torn on this topic.

I feel extreme guilt for liking something that, taken to an extreme point, could be bad for my partner.

That being said, I simultaneously feel no guilt, because I realize that I am not actually contributing to any weight he may gain (I have no time...at most, I can make one meal per day, and it's just not enough to make much of a difference). I've also told him numerous times that I wouldn't want him to change anything to get me off, and he understands.

So there you have it.


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## choudhury (Oct 17, 2017)

It's a complex question, an maybe as an FA rather than FFA I shouldn't be butting in (although is there any difference when it comes to 'guilt' on this issue?), but I feel no guilt myself, because my partner is clearly hard-wired to love food and be fat, and would be this way with or without me. I love her as she is, but when the subject of weight loss comes up I let her know that I'll support her in that too, if that's what she wants. So far it isn't. If loving someone for who they are is 'enabling' then I don't think that's a sin.

Feederism, rather than passive enjoyment of a partner's natural inclination to be fat, may be more complicated ethical terrain. But the alternative to FAs in that nobody loves fat people or finds them desirable. That's surely a much worse outcome.


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## Tad (Oct 17, 2017)

I think that society may put more pressure on FFA than on FA? To me it feels that there is a traditional expectation (usually unstated) that women form the moral centre of a family or couple. So for FFA there is both a 'how could you be attracted to that?' and a 'how could you permit him to do that?' and I don't think guys get that to the same degree. I'll let the FFA comment further if they want.

-------------------------------

About the guilt thing in general, I could not, for the life of me, manage to make the point more eloquently than FreeThinker did. But I did think of of some of my personal justifications that I pull out when the guilt creeps in on me. 

- I may not be the perfect person for her, who helps her lead her best possible life, but I'm also far from the worst. 

- She is probably fatter than she'd be with a lot of partners, but she may also be more secure in her body and my attraction to her than she'd be with a lot of partners. 

- She's fat enough to have some elevated health risks, but she's made all sorts of lifestyle changes to live healthier than she did growing up and far healthier than her parents modeled, so she could easily also be facing all sorts of other risks even if she were thinner. 

- I probably do influence her toward fatness, but I also influence her toward regular walking and biking, eating lots of vegetables, and some other healthy habits. 

- Maybe her weight hurts her health, but maybe our living alongside a busy road does too -- and if we lived further from traffic would the area be as good for walking and biking so would it really be healthier, and if she went through yo-yo weight loss and gain might that hurt her health more than being fairly steady around her weight? 

I make no claim that those should absolve me of my guilt (nor do they do so fully), but they are what I use. Perhaps others can find their own counter-balances to their (F)FA guilt.


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## choudhury (Oct 17, 2017)

Tad said:


> I think that society may put more pressure on FFA than on FA? To me it feels that there is a traditional expectation (usually unstated) that women form the moral centre of a family or couple. So for FFA there is both a 'how could you be attracted to that?' and a 'how could you permit him to do that?' and I don't think guys get that to the same degree. I'll let the FFA comment further if they want.
> 
> -------------------------------
> 
> ...



A further thought concerns all the other 'unhealthy' lifestyles couples engage in without guilt or social sanction. For instance, riding a motorcycle is a highly dangerous activity. But a lot of people go for it, and for many couples it's an important bonding factor. Are such couples 'enabling' each other in a destructive activity such that they should feel guilty? If I like to ride a Harley and my gf finds that attractive and sexy (I'm a 'rebel' etc.), should she feel ashamed of herself?

There is an enormous double standard around discussions of 'health,' especially when it comes to fat.


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## Anjula (Oct 18, 2017)

FreeThinker said:


> You can cry because it's over, or smile because it happened.
> 
> Or you can worry and feel guilty while it's still happening.
> 
> ...



I feel guilty for everything youve mentioned so I guess Im just prone to feeling guilty about stuff.


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## FreeThinker (Oct 19, 2017)

Anjula said:


> I feel guilty for everything youve mentioned so I guess Im just prone to feeling guilty about stuff.




Or:


> I feel human for everything youve mentioned so I guess Im just prone to feeling human about stuff.





To others, maybe it's like people say: We are what we do. 

To ourselves, it could be we are what we feel. 



So you're not a sociopath -- get over it.


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## Angel (Oct 22, 2017)

dwesterny said:


> But the idea that simply by giving affection and intimacy you're doing fat person a disservice by validating their lifestyle is narcissism and denies the agency of fat people.



I couldn't decide which post to quote.

Normally I am not one who openly posts about personal experiences.
Anyway, here are some thoughts, but from the flip side / my perspective. If you are an FFA, imagine it being written by a SSBHM to / about FFAs.

I'm an SSBBW, over 50 years old. Have been over 400 for over 30 years. Have weighed near 600 in the past (and that was before discovering Dimensions, FAs, encouragers, and/or feeders). Currently weigh around 450. Weight fluctuates between 440 and 480, usually.

Was involved with FA/feeders from 2002 until 2009. It was my experience that only feeders were attracted to me/ wanted to meet me. Not FAs. After four bad experiences in '09 (each met via Dimensions), I decided to take a break. I met someone outside of Dimensions who was an FA. Never met in person. Another year wasted on someone who didn't deserve my time or attention. Later briefly became close to a non FA. A total loser/jerk.

One night (about a year and a half ago) I was goofing off online with a male FA/possibly feeder/encourager friend. I realized then that only certain men find me attractive and actually *get* / understand me. I realized then that no matter how much I was trying to protect my heart, that I knew what I needed, wanted, and missed.

I wanted, and needed, to be found attractive. I wanted and needed someone to find me sexy and desirable. I wanted and needed someone to view me as *normal* and *irresistible* even if I did weigh 480 some pounds. I wanted and needed someone who wouldn't be ashamed of me or my size and someone who was also mature and secure enough about their FAness. I wanted someone who would love *all* of me and who would appreciate all of my fatness. I realised that I missed "fat talk" and missed talking about me gaining/growing even if I was too fat to actually gain much more.

My point? Some of us do want to be appreciated and lusted after by someone special. We want and need to be found *hot*. We want and need to feel alive in every aspect of our being. We want and need to enjoy life in every way we possibly are able to.

If you live your life in fear or in shame, you are going to miss out on some beautiful and unforgettable moments and experiences. 

Love me and create memories with me while I am alive and able to enjoy them. I want and need to feel passion. I want and need to share and give of my sensualness and love. Don't let my size or weight cause you to question or regret what could bring us both passion and intimacy and happiness. If you are attracted to me and find me sexy at my weight/size and if you love *all* of me, don't be afraid. I deserve to feel and experience all the emotions and physical intimacy, passion, and love and giving of myself and giving passion in return just like everyone else. Feed my desires. Feed our desires. Feed my/our fantasies. Don't keep me in a cage because you are ashamed or afraid. 

Concern is appreciated, but know that I am fully aware and cognizant of my weight/size/health, and solely responsible there of.


Oops! Just realised there is a page 2 of posts! Back to reading!


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## Angel (Oct 22, 2017)

BigChaz said:


> Now onto the other topic of FA guilt. Feel guilty all you want for liking me fat. Just keep it to yourself and enjoy my belly. If you start to make me feel guilty about it, then I'll have an issue and we will deal with it. Ideally you won't feel guilty and you will just make me some brownies and juggle my moobs while we watch Stranger Things.



I think you were being both sarcastic and funny here. I hope. 

It's no fun being with someone who finds you sexy but who also is conflicted with their own FAness. "I love your belly" and "I love how fat you are" and "You turn me on so much" .... "but this isn't who I really am". 

No, jackass. It *is* who you really are. You are also immature and lacking in confidence. You say you want a sexy and confident SSBBW who dresses sexy? Then grow a pair and grow up. Realise that if it gets you hard, then it *is* what turns you on / and it is who you *are*.

Bring me two dozen donuts and some of those fattening brownies... and don't let the door hit you on that little ass of yours on the way out. Good riddance. My fat ass and huge belly are for someone whom deserves the pleasure they bring!


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## Angel (Oct 22, 2017)

Tad said:


> I think that society may put more pressure on FFA than on FA? To me it feels that there is a traditional expectation (usually unstated) that women form the moral centre of a family or couple. So for FFA there is both a 'how could you be attracted to that?' and a 'how could you permit him to do that?' and I don't think guys get that to the same degree. I'll let the FFA comment further if they want.



I've been around Dimensions since May 2001, and read the magazine prior to then. This is more of an observation than anything. From what I have seen and read, the majority of FFA are looking for or are in relationships with BHM/SSBHM. whereas the majority of male FA, encouragers, and feeders are looking for sexual gratification rather than relationships. There are the exceptions. 

I think that when someone desires a relationship and / or develops feelings for another, care and concern naturally exist and flourish. When you care about someone their well being is important to you.

On the other hand, when someone is only looking for a romp in the hay, they are not typically going to become emotionally invested. 

Also factor in that it is generally females who open up / post about feelings / emotions / real life relationships, etc. Some males do, but that ratio is probably greater than 10:1.

So the "pressure" may generally be the same or possibly lean in the opposite direction. You have one faction who express the relating concerns and another who never get to or desire to arise to that level of intimacy.


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## agouderia (Oct 22, 2017)

Thank you all for your responses and insides. 
I re-opened the issue because in one way or the other I think it pop ups for most of us here and there.

It's not that I generally feel guilty for my preference. 
There are literally hundreds of millions of fat people out there - myself included - who lead perfectly normal, healthy lives and have these lives mainly impaired by social and especially medical sigmatization.
Ashblonde highlighted this aspect and I couldn't agree more.

Melian summed the being torn situation up very nicely - and I can fully relate to that.
Because I indeed do not engage in actually harming activity to any BBW or BHM, only cook healthy meals when asked, etc. - and being someone who is horrible at sports but just as bad at sitting still, activity naturally happens.

As dwes wrote - I also strongly believe in personal autonomy and self-responsibility. So every person must deal with their own body and own weight.
Come to think about it - this probably is the original sin made in raising heavier (today this often means of a perfectly normal weight) children. Constant over controlling and setting up rules lets kids never have the chance to learn about what their bodies really want and need, take agency for them. As well as turning food into the coveted, forbidden fruit, that can only be enjoyed in secret - with the consequence of often extremely screwed up eating habits.

And finally the issue of morality pressure on women plays a significant role.



Tad said:


> I think that society may put more pressure on FFA than on FA? To me it feels that there is a traditional expectation (usually unstated) that women form the moral centre of a family or couple. So for FFA there is both a 'how could you be attracted to that?' and a 'how could you permit him to do that?' and I don't think guys get that to the same degree. I'll let the FFA comment further if they want.



And Angel shared her experiences from the FA/BBW perspective.

Because if I want to nail it down, what I almost exclusively feel guilty for - like in the described incident - is finding fat struggles sexy. 
Like the bouncing belly that refuses to be belted, the straining buttons, how fat can't be squeezed far enough to bend down or fit in. 
It's just the thrill of abundance winning.

In contrast, one of the first rules you learn - as a female even more so than a guy - is not to take pleasure from other people's suffering or defeats.

So in essence it's the dilemma of my preference not meeting the desired moral norm.


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## ALS Again (Oct 24, 2017)

I feel guilty because my guy has gained about 20-30 pounds in the eight months that we have been together, and he really isn't into weight gain. He knows the I love his body, and he accepts the weight gain, but he doesn't want to gain more. I feel guilty because I would love for him to get bigger. He weighs around 230/240 and is 6'4" tall.


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## TwoSwords (Oct 26, 2017)

agouderia said:


> This has been increasingly rummaging through my mind, that there mostly likely only is health up to a certain size - and that those of us to take pleasure in extremer size might contribute to harming or enabling self-harm of others.
> Not a new observation or doubt, but one which for me has been blaring pretty loudly of late.



I do think that people of a certain size will have difficulty achieving good health; especially those who can no longer get around on their own. However, the claims that FAs and FFAs cause some kind of harm by expressing their feelings of attraction or delight to very big people, or encourage them to harm themselves, rest on several very large and unjustified assumptions.

1. First, they rest on the assumption that fat people, once encouraged, will continue growing to an unhealthy degree. In most cases, this is not true.

2. Secondly, they rest on the assumption that appreciated fat people are more likely to get fatter than unappreciated ones. This also is questionable, considering that yo-yo dieting has been responsible for the waistlines of many fat people. Often, it's the futile attempts to lose weight that drive things into "health problem" territory.

3. Third, they rest on the assumption that the weight itself, and not other factors, is the sole cause of the person's poor health. Overall health is determined by a wide range of factors, including nutritional choices, frequency of exercise, amount of sleep and stress, as well as, of course, actual disease.

4. Fourthly, they rest on the assumption that fat people, who are unloved, will be more motivated to lose the weight and "become healthy." In many cases, this is untrue, and fat people just become more reclusive as a result of abuse, harming both them and their appreciators.

5. Finally, they rest on the assumption that weight loss falls within the power of the fat person, and will produce good health if the person succeeds in it. Neither of these is proven to be true, and the overall failure of the massive, multi-billion-dollar weight loss industry proves it.

Honestly, I'm convinced that it's the stress of struggling to lose weight, more than the weight itself, that contributes to most health problems usually blamed on "obesity," (though the overabundance of refined sugar in the modern diet, and the large number of sedentary occupations in the modern world also don't help matters any.)


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## BHMluver (Nov 4, 2017)

Overall health is always at the back of my mind. I think thats where the guilt comes in. I could never partake in making someone unhealthy. And yet, Ive seen first hand how a person of a much larger size has smoked me on the treadmill at the gym.

For me, contrast is attractive - luv hairy men but rip any & EVERYWHERE I have it out. Total foodie but cant eat a lot & cant cook ... pretty good at baking, though. &#128520; Intelligence, drive & sense of humor are the only exceptions. Yet again, theres also this weird part of me who would like to just take care of a guys needs 24/7. Its a conundrum ...


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## Dr. P Marshall (Nov 12, 2017)

Wow, I come back and a guilt thread is up. I used to write about this quite a lot around here. I used to feel guilty, but now I don't. I credit being able to work through all of that as the reason I eventually found a wonderful man, who I have been with for 5 years now. I would say that for myself, Melian (still love you:wubu and agouderia have pretty much expressed my personal feelings on the matter. But I wanted to address the issue of feeling creepy. I don't want to speak for Anjula, but I think I get what she's saying, or at the very least, have felt things similar to what she expressed.

It's not about narcissism, or feeling like fat people have no control of their lives. It's about the actual sexuality of the F/FA. It's about how we feel about our own desires and arousals. I know health is a touchy topic, so I'll bring it down a notch for my example. I happen to get aroused by men popping buttons off clothes that don't fit well. I don't know why, it just gets me. Having said that, I am also intellectually aware that, for the man in question, it might be embarrassing. I don't like that it embarrasses him, but I literally cannot control my body's arousal. I can't. In my head I might be more concerned about his feelings, but I can't change the arousal, it's just a response.

That kind of thing can leave you wondering if there is something innately strange, or even cruel about your sexuality. What does it mean if the things that arouse you embarrass, or frustrate, or are potentially harmful to the person? I don't think there's anything wrong with any F/FA here for any of their desires, and I certainly don't think it's creepy to find SSBHM/SSBBW attractive, but I think if an F/FA hasn't at least had it cross their mind that there is a disconnect sometimes between what arouses us and what is a good experience for the object of arousal, then there might be a problem. You don't have to be mired in guilt, it can just be a passing thought, but I wouldn't trust an F/FA who hadn't at least done a little soul searching on the topic. It just means that they actually see fat people as people and not just sex objects.


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## Shh! Don’t tell! (Mar 9, 2019)

I’ve been thinking about this lately. I have a crush on a very minor celebrity who I guess must be in the four hundred pound range and to top it off, works with food (I’m sure someone’s going to be able to guess who it is now, but whatever.) I was hornily consuming all the content he’d created that I could find when I suddenly stumbled across something he’d written talking about having problems sleeping and breathing (!!!) Suddening, I saw all the videos that I’d been getting turned on over in the context of him being in discomfort and pain a lot of the time and it just sort of made me feel shitty. I hate feeling like I fall into the awful “abusive feeder” stereotype (I don’t label myself as a feeder, but let’s be real-admirers, encouragers and feeders aren’t really as descrete and separate as people sometimes act like they are.) I feel caught between hoping he never loses a pound and hoping he loses some weight so that his quality of life improves.


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## dwesterny (Mar 9, 2019)

Shh! Don’t tell! said:


> I’ve been thinking about this lately. I have a crush on a very minor celebrity who I guess must be in the four hundred pound range and to top it off, works with food (I’m sure someone’s going to be able to guess who it is now, but whatever.) I was hornily consuming all the content he’d created that I could find when I suddenly stumbled across something he’d written talking about having problems sleeping and breathing (!!!) Suddening, I saw all the videos that I’d been getting turned on over in the context of him being in discomfort and pain a lot of the time and it just sort of made me feel shitty. I hate feeling like I fall into the awful “abusive feeder” stereotype (I don’t label myself as a feeder, but let’s be real-admirers, encouragers and feeders aren’t really as descrete and separate as people sometimes act like they are.) I feel caught between hoping he never loses a pound and hoping he loses some weight so that his quality of life improves.


Treating sleep apnea is not hard. In fact the worse your apnea is the better treatment feels.


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## Starling (Mar 10, 2019)

I don’t feel guilt about what I like, so I think it’s a bit easier for me to separate actively ruining someone’s life from appreciating someone the way they are. For me, the line is crossed when you are forcing, bullying, etc someone to do something against their will or that doesn’t feel good or natural to them (this includes losing as well as gaining). 

The rest, well, it’s tackled one thing at a time. The sleep apnea mentioned - getting a CPAP machine solves that issue, if someone has diabetes or high blood pressure (at any size), you tackle those issues one at a time and do what’s necessary. But certainly none of those would make me feel guilty for liking what I do. 

The best example I have is one of my first serious boyfriends, who would overeat quite a bit when he was alone. At first it turned me on like no other when I started finding evidence of it, and I loved the way he looked with extra weight. 

As our relationship got more serious, I began to realize he was suffering from Binge Eating Disorder related to various stresses and traumas in his life. That was the closest I felt to guilt - but even then, I realized my mixed feelings were due to the fact that I wanted him to overeat when he wanted to because he was enjoying it, not because he felt stressed out and powerless. So I gently suggested counseling for his underlying issues that were causing the troubled relationship he had with food. He ignored me at the time, but ended up going a few years after we broke up and said it was life changing. 

I love showing affection through taking care of people, so if someone has a broken leg or something, I love being able to do things for them. But taking a hammer and smashing their legs is insane and not something I would do. Is this analogous? Maybe?

To me, it’s like loving an athlete and being attracted to that body type, even though you know injuries, soreness, and immense stress on the joints are usually part of that person’s life. Or loving someone who rides a motorcycle and finding that hot, even though motorcycles are incredibly dangerous. It’s just that these are considered more socially acceptable, so people don’t usually feel angsty about those attractions, since they’ve never needed to justify them. 

(Not certain I had a point there, more a jumbled mass of feelings, so thanks for bearing with).


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## JDavis (Mar 11, 2019)

I guess I really don't believe in the accounting method of weight loss or gain. So to me, being attracted to someone who is big and who is sick is no more wrong than being attracted to someone in a wheelchair with a genetic disease. 

I am not saying all people who are big are sick either. Or that you only die if you are fat. The odds of dying at each age




each year are shown in this graph. I am in my 50s and am starting to have a lot of high school classmates die and they are all skinny. At my age it is about 1 in 500 so with 500 classmates that is about one a year. I bet there are a lot more people than that on this forum.


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## FatPiggyBoy4U (Mar 12, 2019)

Me personally, I would say no one should feel guilty about being a feeder. The truth is obesity is unhealthy and feederism is inherently sadistic while being a feedee is inherently masochistic. I have diabetes and while I'm scared of the consequences, I can't help but be excited by the prospect of gaining weight for someone. I'm 372 lbs and I'd love to be 500 lbs or more.

Life is about choices and consequences and being a feeder or feedee isn't something we naturally choose. So I say just realise what the reality of our lifestyle entails and accept it for what it is. Let us enjoy the time we have.


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## GrowingBoy (Mar 18, 2019)

Anjula said: 

"The worst thing about it all is when you’re an fa and the fat is a turn on the fat person doesn’t feel the pressure/need to lose weight so he’s really just getting bigger and you’re torn between your treacherous pussy and your worries about his weight"

The desire to change weight has to come from within. If you're not encouraging overeating and are supportive of potentially healthy choices (such as exercise) then you've done what you can do. Your attraction isn't wrong, and "pressuring" probably wouldn't be helpful anyway.


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## Mainegal (Mar 31, 2019)

All we’ve done is trade cigarettes for an iPhone and our head gear (for braces) for a cpap. 

Darling bhms++


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